# My "fun" ORT/Bagyard Experience



## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

I'll try to stay as objective as possible through this, but I feel that people should be sharing their experiences with vendors so that other potential customers can make a well informed decision and know what they are about to step into.

To start off, this complaint has NOTHING to do with the length of time it took to get the product. My car has been bagged with OG Bagyards from the very first group buy since January, so I was not in a rush to get the parts. With that being said, this relates to the extremely poor customer service that I had to deal with from [email protected] during the 3 month process from the time I paid until the time I received my struts. Sadly most of the conversations I had with Andrew were lost when vortex switched to vB, so I can only go off of memory for the most part, with a few emails.

Within the first few days of the second group buy opening up, I had made the decision to get Bombers so I could lay subframe on my TT. I spoke with Andrew about the differences of the struts and everything seemed to start off ok. Within a few days, I had ordered 1 full set of struts for my TT, and a set of front struts for an A3. Granted I was part of the group buy, you would assume when a customer getting a decent sized order asks for updates, you would give some sort of detailed answer, and definitely not just ignore them.

Since the only major problem during the 2 months from when I paid in the first week of February until April 13th, when the pallet was finally in ORT's hands and being sorted, was the lack of updates of the process. It felt like pulling teeth to get any sort of details, but whatever. This is when things started to get interesting. 

I asked Andrew when he would be contacting me to finalize shipping and customs fees, because according to Andrew shipping fees are dependent upon the destination. The answer I get in return is a smart-ass comment stating "some people have taken the time to paypal me the money". The following day, Andrew posts in the GB thread, that not everything fit on the first pallet, so a second pallet had to be sent. I just don't see how Bagyard failed to mention this to him during the process. Either way, I had PMed Andrew asking if my stuff was on the pallet, and I was told that it was, and that he will be charging me $75 for shipping and customs fees. My CC gets charged on April 16th but I don't get an email confirmation or PM saying my struts have shipped with a tracking #. Instead, I had to contact Andrew asking for my shipping info. 

At this point it should be no surprise to me, but instead of telling me that everything is ok and ready to ship, I'm told that they sent the wrong rear bag setup, because instead of using my name and the car the order is for, they use my vortex SN and get confused. I thought this was bad luck, but apparently several other people in the GB were given the same "explanation". I'm told the correct ones are being sent on the second pallet, which should be arriving in a week. 

On April 20th, mind you this is already 2 days after the volocano in Europe errupted and all flights had been canceled, Andrew tells everyone the shippment is still on schedule to arrive in a week. Odd, if all flights are canceled how could it possibly be on schedule for delivery? No updates are given to anyone for another week, until April 27th when Andrew says again that everything is "on schedule for the end of the week". Funny, I thought they were supposed to have already been in the states, but apparently they hadn't been shipped yet. 3 days later, another update is given stating that the pallet is sitting in France due to all flights being canceled. Again, I find this very hard to believe considering Lufthansa Cargo (the company Andrew stated the pallet was being shipped through) had posted on their website that all flights were back to full capacity a week prior to this supposed delay. Now two weeks have gone by with ZERO information about the second pallet, except some "explanations" as to why it's not on schedule. 

At this point, I have been PMing Andrew for over a week asking for shipping information for my front struts (which I had already been charged for) and shipping information for the pallet. I didn't get a SINGLE response for close to 10 days. When he finally responds to me, I get a bunch of excuses as to why I still don't have a tracking number or any information about the second pallet. After trying for another week to find out what was going on with my stuff, I FINALLY get an answer back from Andrew with another excuse that "there was a problem with the label". Really? It took you almost 3 weeks to tell me that there was a problem with the label? If that was the case, FedEx would never had picked up the package and you would have had it sitting where ever it is that ORT ships stuff from, so how could it have taken THAT long to figure out there was a problem?

With no luck of getting answer about the second pallet, I finally emailed Andrew on May 4th, but didn't get very detailed info other than he will be shipping my stuff via FedEx Express Saver. After emailing him again asking about when he thought the shipment would go out and not getting a response for two days, I emailed him again stating that I had been MORE than patient throughout this process, but my patience had been wearing very thing with the lack of communication and updates, especially because he had charged me for the shipping, but didn't ship anything. It just so happens, as I was writing that email, Andrew sent me an email with the tracking info. Now, the email to Andrew was as direct as it needed to be without acting like a little child and name calling. But you wouldn't believe how he responds to it. Instead of just apologizing for the delays, he acts as though he did me a favor be shipping out the struts, and continues to tell me that he no longer has any interest in working with me for Wuste2011. So because of your lack of communication and poor customer service, you get defensive and act like a little kid? Great way to show your maturity level.

After 3 months of waiting, and complete lack of communication, I got my struts. I still don't have an invoice for this purchase, and I hope to god that I don't have any issues with my Bombers, because if I have to go through what some of the other members of the community have been going through when getting a replacement, I think I would go nuts. It's pretty clear with the other recent threads about how [email protected] conducts his business and how he treats some of his customers. I've had the pleasure of speaking with a many other extremely unsatisfied customers who have been waiting even LONGER than I have to get their stuff and it's always the same story.

I know this was a bit long, but take it for what it is. This was my personal experience, which turned out to be a horrible one. I expressed my opinion to Bagyard as well, and they even acknowledged how rude Andrew can be, but they still support him regardless. If that's case, I don't think I will be purchasing another set of Bagyards again.


----------



## ChrisPop (Jan 22, 2010)

A thread like this was already made (and locked for good reasons). Quit crying


----------



## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

ChrisPop said:


> A thread like this was already made (and locked for good reasons). Quit crying


LOL, apparently you're reading skills aren't up to par. I'm sharing my experience and people deserve to hear more than one person's experience. But thanks for playing.


----------



## ChrisPop (Jan 22, 2010)

Guess your reading skills aren't up to par, because on that thread, multiple people shared their "experiences" with ORT. Jam packed with all kinds of fun, including text messages!


----------



## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

ChrisPop said:


> Guess your reading skills aren't up to par, because on that thread, multiple people shared their "experiences" with ORT. Jam packed with all kinds of fun, including text messages!


Yeah, and it got locked. This is a completely separate incident, and I think it also should be heard. These issues with ORT should not be swept under the rug. If you have a problem with this thread, click the back button, you are of no use to this thread besides adding idle banter.


----------



## Stigy (Aug 20, 2008)

ChrisPop said:


> A thread like this was already made (and locked for good reasons). Quit crying


"forum" - a public meeting or assembly for *OPEN* discussion.

I don't believe he is crying. If people have issues they should be allowed to post them on a forum.

I am sure you wouldn't want someone to tell you to stop crying if you had an issue with a company like this and posted it on Vortex to inform the community.


----------



## Still Fantana (Jul 16, 2008)

And uh, and uh, and another oneee...

Really sad to see so many people with such bad experiences from ONE vendor.


----------



## nap83 (Jun 24, 2007)

from the other thread = ort will be the next eip


----------



## ChrisPop (Jan 22, 2010)

PatientlyWaiting said:


> This is a completely separate incident, and I think it also should be heard.


Problems with the second group buy were already discussed in Digital K's thread. You need to read through it. And I've also taken notice that SoloGLI is becoming a Vortex troll towards Andrew, more so than just trying to "inform people" about his incident.


----------



## PatientlyWaiting (Apr 28, 2005)

ChrisPop said:


> Problems with the second group buy were already discussed in Digital K's thread. You need to read through it. And I've also taken notice that SoloGLI is becoming a Vortex troll towards Andrew, more so than just trying to "inform people" about his incident.


I beg to differ. There have been many more incidents then have been listed on here. If the moderators don't find this thread appropriate they will lock it, which they will. Soon there will be new ways, off of the vortex to log the issues with ORT people are having. In short, if someone has a problem with a company that advertises and sells on this board, then it should be made public.


----------



## Mattionals (Mar 9, 2005)

Not to make the OP feel bad or anything, but Andrew has treated me great throughout my experience with him.

I don't think I'm special or anything, patient yes, but he has always answered my emails in a very timely fashion and gave me sweet deals on stuff. All my accuair showed up and is perfect, and my rears are on the way. We are just waiting on Bilstein for struts for my fronts. Good thing too since I just last weet asked to have sway mounts on my struts, so I expect to not have them in stock.

So far my experience is stellar. Maybe things just went kinda bad with the 2nd group buy, but ordering directly has been fine.


----------



## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

PDubbs20AE said:


> Not to make the OP feel bad or anything, but Andrew has treated me great throughout my experience with him.
> 
> I don't think I'm special or anything, patient yes, but he has always answered my emails in a very timely fashion and gave me sweet deals on stuff. All my accuair showed up and is perfect, and my rears are on the way. We are just waiting on Bilstein for struts for my fronts. Good thing too since I just last weet asked to have sway mounts on my struts, so I expect to not have them in stock.
> 
> So far my experience is stellar. Maybe things just went kinda bad with the 2nd group buy, but ordering directly has been fine.


That doesn't make me feel bad at all. The thing is, I would hope this is how ALL of his customers were treated. Like I said at the very beginning of my post, the length of time it took to get my stuff was irrelevent because my car was already on bags. It's the flat out disrespect that he has towards paying customers and the lack of communication. When Scott Mason disappeared people started the same exact type of threads. I may have been a little harsh in some of the other threads that I've posted in, but I was as objective as I could be and instead of name calling, I shared MY experience. I felt the need to share my experience because it's necessary for the community to see how customers are treated. The worst part is, I felt that had I posted this BEFORE I received my struts, that one of two things would have happened. 1) I would have been told that I'm getting my money refunded and not getting my struts after 3 months of waiting or 2) Andrew would have waited as long as possible to ship out my struts. I don't see how it is a good image for ANY company when people are afraid to speak up because the vendor might decide to screw them over just a little longer because there are no other alternatives. And believe me, I'm not the only person that fells that way... there are more than a few who I have shared that feeling with and they are still waiting on parts to come in. Granted I don't think my situation was nearly as bad as Kris' or apparently as Aron (the guy who posted the Where in the World thread), but this is how I felt the best way to express my feelings toward Andrew and Bagyard. I sent Andrew plenty of PMs and emails saying that I'm tired of the excuses and the BS and I just want a straight answer. So this shouldn't be a surprise.


----------



## FckShoes (Jun 16, 2007)

There is nothing wrong with sharing your buying experience, good or bad. This is the kind of thing that will push vendors and manufactures to better their customer service. More importantly, it informs potential customer whom are shopping for the same thing. I had a bad experience with Mason Tech and will never do business with him again, so when people see my car and inquire about the brand or ride quality or overall experience, I will share my experience and leave it to them to make their own decisions. We need more threads like this, good and bad. Sorry to hear you went through this OP.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

sorry to hear of your troubles. I don't even know what to say... I hope I dont have any issues w/ the struts in the future...


----------



## Dangler (Sep 27, 2001)

When i ordered my Bagyard kit front and rear from Andrew, It took a bit over a month to go from day of payment to them showing up on my door step. After some negotiating and asking if he could cut me a deal on the price....he did. So i was happy their. I'm a very patient person and since my funds weren't up to par, i didn't mind getting my stuff slowly and piecing my kit over time. 

The only thing i found a little frustrating was the lack of communication when I had support questions. My front struts at low pressure make a clunky/knocking noise over little irregularities in the road. I asked Andrew if Bagyard had a solve for this or if they were aware of this. He said "They'll be sending you something also with the next big shipment" That was months ago. I never received anything nor was there any further correspondence through email. Like i said i am very patient, and have learned to live with the noise. I plan on investigating further to find out where the noise is coming from. Also the hardware (bolts and washers to secure the rear bags), didn't really work, and i had to buy shorter bolts and different washers. 

That is my experience.

If andrew can't handle all this business, he should roll back his operations to levels he can handle. I'd rather have a lower income and a happy customer base, than over extend myself, promise the world and fail.


----------



## _Dirty_ (Sep 30, 2009)

I know what we all can do for the future!
Buy from [email protected] Riders! 

I stopped by his place of business today and he went out of his way to ADD parts that were not paid for on his own dime for a order to correct when the customer went to install the parts. 

Coming from a business mind set i was blown away, NO ONE does this, but apparently Will does. So those whom are about to receive a shipment from Bag Riders you better thank him for going above and beyond.

OK my plug is done


----------



## Mattionals (Mar 9, 2005)

It seems that the air world is going in cycles with who we all choose to go with. I think as we get bigger, the market will start to show big profits, but right now I think mostly this stuff is real shaky.

Alex, I hope more customers of ORT turn out like mine just as you have stated previously. There are lots of companies that may have rubbed people the wrong way, and at some point things get corrected and they do well and have good CS. Other companies don't work out like this so I guess as a community all we can do is hope that we get better CS as time goes on.

I think ORT needs more people working for them, but obviously if you don't have the overhead to pay your employees and keep the business afloat then the business either shuts down or people lose their jobs. I think it's our job to make air ride less "niche" and more mainstream if we want good prices and short wait times and have companies like ORT have larger staffs so that they have dedicated CS people and dedicated people involved with ordering and speaking to the manufacturer.

Put it this way, I want to stop having to see these threads not to be jerk and say that all criticism is bad and non-constructive, but ORT/Bagyard, Mason Tech, Air Lift and so on should all have great CS so we can choose which brand to go with and not have to swing one way or another due to bad CS.


----------



## lelix (Apr 30, 2008)

My first and last group buy simply because there are waaaay too many variables:banghead:


----------



## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

i doubt Andrew will do another group buy. i dont know the circumstances and im not gonna pretend to, but my thoughts are things are being held up that are out of his hands, and he doesnt like to be the bearer of bad news. so no updates are given, rather than directly letting customers down. 
i agree more honest updates should have been given, and i feel bad for everyone in the group buy that got excited, then let down, repeat..etc. 
ive never ordered struts from Andrew, only parts that he can source from the USA. he got me a compressor to my door the 2nd day after i ordered it one time, and somehow got flow controls to my door the very next day. (neither of which i paid for overnight or 2 day shipping)
The obvious solution for him to succeed is to stock in the states, and replenish when he's getting low. I thought that was the original plan for the bombers, and i still hope that is in the works.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 22, 2006)

Thanks for this post Alex, it really helps me to grow and understand what I am doing wrong as a business. I think you really cannot learn to grown and serve your customers unless they tell you what the problem is with you/your company. I'm sorry to hear that you won't be purchasing another set of BagYards due to your experiences. However, everything that I told you was true and there were some people who's struts were returned to me from FedEx due to a label problem. And just for the record, I upgraded your shipment to FedEx Express saver FOR FREE.

Building a stock in the United States is still the plan but we're waiting on some parts from Bilstein and then we can move forward!


----------



## winsbluejetta (Feb 7, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks for this post Alex, it really helps me to grow and understand what I am doing wrong as a business. I think you really cannot learn to grown and serve your customers unless they tell you what the problem is with you/your company. I'm sorry to hear that you won't be purchasing another set of BagYards due to your experiences. However, everything that I told you was true and there were some people who's struts were returned to me from FedEx due to a label problem. And just for the record, I upgraded your shipment to FedEx Express saver FOR FREE.
> 
> Building a stock in the United States is still the plan but we're waiting on some parts from Bilstein and then we can move forward!



Wow so you upgraded your customer to a better shipping method for free because you lied to him for 3 months as to where his struts were? Thats great customer service for sure!


----------



## theAntiRiced (May 7, 2005)

I feel for Andrew because it's my experience that Bagyard overcommits much further than ORT does. I had to wait a while for my shorties, and I'd do it again for sure; no one is disputing the quality as being anything short of top shelf. Once Bagyard can sort out the hold-ups, like sourcing the struts in a timely fashion, then I'm sure they'll be able to produce the orders faster.


----------



## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

winsbluejetta said:


> Wow so you upgraded your customer to a better shipping method for free because you lied to him for 3 months as to where his struts were? Thats great customer service for sure!


dude calm down. what he's saying is when the struts were actually *in his hands* he paid out of his pocket to get them to the OP quickly. It's not gonna make up for the fact he had been waiting so long, but its a nice gesture nonetheless.

what happens if these bashing threads continue and Andrew stops providing Bagyards to the USA?


----------



## OWENthatsmyname (Feb 27, 2007)

Kiddie Rose said:


> what happens if these bashing threads continue and Andrew stops providing Bagyards to the USA?


someone else will pick up and become a new vendor for the US?

If there is demand, someone needs to be the supplier


----------



## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

Andrew got his deal with bagyard by setting up a group buy. 
if you think anyone is gonna try to set up their own group buy with bagyard after knowing what happened with this last one, you're crazy.


----------



## RichE Recaro (Oct 8, 2007)

i been waiting 2 months now for my kit i ordered and still nothing. i been calling him on a daily basis and leaving messages. last time he actually responded to my voice mail he said "there on the way youll have them in a week. i will send you the tracking number later on". terrible person to deal with. never answers his phone or returns emails or messages.


----------



## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

Kiddie Rose said:


> dude calm down. what he's saying is when the struts were actually *in his hands* he paid out of his pocket to get them to the OP quickly. It's not gonna make up for the fact he had been waiting so long, but its a nice gesture nonetheless.
> 
> what happens if these bashing threads continue and Andrew stops providing Bagyards to the USA?


He had the struts when the first pallet arrived, so it's not like he wasn't able to ship them WELL before he did. But Andrew sending the stuff by Express Saver is something you're SUPPOSED to do when you make a mistake and are trying to make it up to the customer.

These aren't "bashing" threads, at least I wouldn't call it that. It's not like I was irate and calling anyone names; same goes for the other people who posted threads. But if ANY company treats customers to the point where people will stop purchasing the product, regardless of how good the product is, then they will eventually stop doing business, and the manufacturer will have 2 options: Stop selling in that market or find a new representative. Andrew is the only one that can stop threads like this from popping up. There's no one else to blame.


----------



## NDubber (Sep 11, 2006)

Kiddie Rose said:


> what happens if these bashing threads continue and Andrew stops providing Bagyards to the USA?


 then bagyard will notice a huge decrease in sales and opt for a new distributor. its what the people want anyways. no one trusts andrew anymore.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Kiddie Rose said:


> what happens if these bashing threads continue and Andrew stops providing Bagyards to the USA?


I hope Andrew takes these threads as constructive criticism and uses them to better his business and communication skills. Step one would be better contact, when someone orders something, immediately send them a confirmation email same as when something ships. When both my sets of bags shipped I had to contact Andrew and ask for the tracking info.


----------



## RichE Recaro (Oct 8, 2007)

called about 4 different time again today left him voice mails and text messages. no responses. he is the worst. where is my $ or where is my kit??


----------



## DFWSKATE (Sep 6, 2007)

when i initially went air, i emailed all of the vendors for pricing for a very basic kit. i heard back from everyone except open road. i guess because i didnt want their struts, i wasnt an important customer.

when i had the money to upgrade to new air struts, i immediately contacted Santi and got a set of masontechs. ive never had a problem with Santi and got everything in a very timely manner. call me a nutswinger, i dont give a ****. he has taken care of me and several other locals without any problems. quality customer service leaves a lasting impression


----------



## mikegilbert (Nov 29, 2006)

My original shipping time was quoted as three weeks, but ended up being about 7 weeks. Andrew called me several times to keep me updated on the actual ship date. Not once did I feel ignored, misled or deceived. Since the sale, Andrew has followed up to make sure everything is going well. 

Based on my experience, it seems that the guys in Austria can't commit to their own deadlines due to demand- and should increase their own estimates on delivery date. 

Figured I'd throw my *positive* experience in for the record. 

:beer:


----------



## ChrisPop (Jan 22, 2010)

mikegilbert said:


> Based on my experience, it seems that the guys in Austria can't commit to their own deadlines due to demand- and should increase their own estimates on delivery date.
> 
> Figured I'd throw my *positive* experience in for the record.
> 
> :beer:


I totally agree. Like I've stated in Digital K's thread, I doubt Andrew is randomly deciding to give everyone wrong estimates. He most likely is just relaying what Bagyards tells him. So when Bagyards extends estimates, Andrew looks bad. Seems like he takes a lot of **** because of their mistakes, but doesn't want to bash them for doing it, since they are giving him the opportunity to be the only North American distributor.


----------



## SoloGLI (Jan 20, 2005)

mikegilbert said:


> My original shipping time was quoted as three weeks, but ended up being about 7 weeks. Andrew called me several times to keep me updated on the actual ship date. Not once did I feel ignored, misled or deceived. Since the sale, Andrew has followed up to make sure everything is going well.
> 
> Based on my experience, it seems that the guys in Austria can't commit to their own deadlines due to demand- and should increase their own estimates on delivery date.
> 
> ...





ChrisPop said:


> I totally agree. Like I've stated in Digital K's thread, I doubt Andrew is randomly deciding to give everyone wrong estimates. He most likely is just relaying what Bagyards tells him. So when Bagyards extends estimates, Andrew looks bad. Seems like he takes a lot of **** because of their mistakes, but doesn't want to bash them for doing it, since they are giving him the opportunity to be the only North American distributor.


I'm not sure how many times I'll have to say this in the thread, my complaints have NOTHING to do with the length of time it took to get my stuff. I'm upset because I was ignored on several occasions and then told my stuff was shipped when it clearly wasn't.

Mike, I'm glad he followed up with you and let you know exactly what was going on, but that should be the way he handles EVERY order, not just a select few. I shouldn't have to chase him down to get an invoice (which I still don't have), or to get an update, or to get my tracking info. Andrew also offered to set me up with a new rear bag setup for the haldex equipped cars. Instead of Andrew letting me know that it didn't work out on the test car they were using in Europe, I had to bug him to find out that they decided to scrap the idea. I mean let's be real, Andrew is a distributor/reseller, the only "product" Andrew provides is customer service. If I'm gonna pay a premium price for a product that was SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper before ORT started, then I should get premium service to go with it. I don't see how anyone can really disagree with that.


----------



## Kiddie Rimzo (Feb 21, 2008)

SoloGLI said:


> I mean let's be real, Andrew isremium price for a product that was SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper before ORT started, then I should get premium service to go with it. I don't see how anyone can really disagree with that.


yeah thats really what its all about. Lets hope that this is a learning process :beer:


----------



## Jester of Paint (Jul 23, 2007)

I think if the truth would be told there would not be have as many problems. Hearing the truth once is a lot better than hearing a bunch of lies.


----------



## .FLY GLI. (Sep 12, 2009)

8 months and counting for me.....


----------



## Mr. Appleton (May 16, 2009)

Kiddie Rose said:


> yeah thats really what its all about. Lets hope that this is a learning process :beer:


$750 for what are supremes now, in the original group buy
$1350 for supremes now

Really are no different, I have had both sets. My original bagyards and the replacement "supremes" go just as low. $600 bucks more for the same struts is basically what it is.

So to think Bagyard was making money off of the original group buy, they must be making a killing now and so does Andrew, but it sure looks like things will change since both Andrew and BY have their heads up their asses.


----------



## Mr. Appleton (May 16, 2009)

.FLY GLI. said:


> 8 months and counting for me.....


That truly does suck, sorry bro. Maybe one day it will get handled. Seems if you complain enough things magically get made and shipped "overnight"


----------



## .FLY GLI. (Sep 12, 2009)

Mr. Appleton said:


> That truly does suck, sorry bro. Maybe one day it will get handled. Seems if you complain enough things magically get made and shipped "overnight"


If you only knew how many times they will "ship tomorrow".......


----------



## Mr. Appleton (May 16, 2009)

.FLY GLI. said:


> If you only knew how many times they will "ship tomorrow".......



Damn bro same boat I was in waiting for replacements. Sucks since your car can't even move now. **** if you want I've got a stock suspension sitting in my garage I'll ship ya if you wanna get that pig movin again


----------



## Stan Marsh (Feb 20, 2005)

Mr. Appleton said:


> Damn bro same boat I was in waiting for replacements. Sucks since your car can't even move now. **** if you want I've got a stock suspension sitting in my garage I'll ship ya if you wanna get that pig movin again



That is one of the main reasons I would be scared to get Bagyards for a daily driver, yeah they are great quality but if you blow one then you might as well throw the stock suspension back in because there isn't going to be a quick replacement.


----------

