# BW EFR vs Garrett GT:



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Cutting edge technology right here boyz! This is a lil comparo I thru together showing the old GT are at a complete loss when measured up to today's cutting edge turbo technoloy. Even the new GTX is not as good however it is better than the old GT's. The only reason I didn't add the GTX info in here was cuz I can't find flow rates for the new GTX's quickly. 





Borg Warner EFR 8374

Comp wheel: 83mm exducer/62.6mm inducer

Turbine wheel: 74mm OD

Features:

-Forged billet extended tip comp wheel
-Gamma-Ti turbine wheel
-4" comp inlet
-2.5" comp outlet
-T3 .83ar internal WG
-T4 .92 twinscroll internal WG
-T4 1.05 twinscroll external WG
-dual ceramic ball bearing*
-no oil restrictor needed
-stainless turbine housing
-built in BOV
-built in electric solenoid valve for electronic boost controllers.*
-turbine speed sensor port (sensor sold separately)*

Flow rating of 79lb per min. 500 to 800hp

-gt3582r:

-Comp wheel 82mm
-turbine wheel: 68mm

flow rate 65lbs per min up to 600hp

*********************************************

Borg Warner EFR 7670

Comp wheel: 76mm exducer/57.2 inducer

Turbine wheel: 70mmOD

Features:

-Forged billet extended tip comp wheel
-Gamma-Ti turbine wheel
-3.5" comp inlet
-2" comp outlet
-T3 .83ar undivided internal WG
-T4 .92 twinscroll internal WG
-T4 1.05 twinscroll external WG
-dual ceramic ball bearing*
-no oil restrictor needed
-water cooled
-stainless turbine housing
-built in BOV
-built in electric solenoid valve for electronic boost controllers.*
-turbine speed sensor port (sensor sold separately)*

Flow rating of 64lb per min. 400hp to 650hp

-gt3076r

-Comp wheel 76.2
-turbine wheel: 60mm

flow rate 53lb per min for up to 500hp

***********************************************

Borg Warner EFR 7064

Comp wheel: 70mm exducer/52.2 inducer

Turbine wheel: 64mmOD

Features:

-Forged billet extended tip comp wheel
-Gamma-Ti turbine wheel
-3.5" comp inlet
-2" comp outlet
-T3 .83ar undivided internal WG
-T4 .92 twinscroll internal WG
-T4 1.05 twinscroll external WG
-dual ceramic ball bearing*
-no oil restrictor needed
-water cooled
-stainless turbine housing
-built in BOV
-built in electric solenoid valve for electronic boost controllers.*
-turbine speed sensor port (sensor sold separately)*

Flow rating of 56lb per min. 350hp to 560hp

-gt3071r

-Comp wheel 71
-turbine wheel: 60mm

flow rate 46lb per min for up to 450hp


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Just out of curiosity...could you throw up some rough MSRP's? Those are some impressive specs for sure.


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## ncsumecheng (Nov 1, 2005)

Sure they're going to be great, but MSRP's for those are going to be bonkers high. I thought I heard the 35R size BW will be around $3500?


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

ncsumecheng said:


> Sure they're going to be great, but MSRP's for those are going to be bonkers high. I thought I heard the 35R size BW will be around $3500?


For 3500 that comes with a boost controller and WG though, right?

I want to see what these will actually do, they sound good on paper, have any been tested on any car, not 1.8T even, just any make to prove their claims?

There are also non oil cooled turbo's floating around now, no pun intended...


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)




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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

ncsumecheng said:


> Sure they're going to be great, but MSRP's for those are going to be bonkers high. I thought I heard the 35R size BW will be around $3500?


Only price I've seen thus far is from full race and the bitc& slapped 35r size is listed as 2700 but slashed and it says call. These are expensive however looking at the specs, well worth it. 
opcorn:


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

I found them for less on another site... I'll try looking it up again when I get home from work....


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## MK3NORTH (Jul 14, 2004)

These look very promising, but the proof is in the pudding. The independent, real world type of pudding. I have a feeling there is a very good reason for integrating the boost solenoid and wastegate. Also the WG looks like it could be the end of traditional external WG's.

Prices seem to range from $1750 for the 6255 up to $3000 for the 8374.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

That WG is a Porsche-style piece, not too surprising considering BW supplies Porsche's turbos


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

in


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## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

The turbos are long, much bigger chassis compared to the Garrett competitor. Not a nice fit for the 1.8t/mkx combo, and forget a nice fit in a mk5. I got a close look at the insides of center cartriges though - very stout and something I would have a piece of mind with when using for a race season outside of drag racing.


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## Spiller337 (Nov 27, 2009)

This looks so wild.


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## ncsumecheng (Nov 1, 2005)

I couldn't justify it since I already have a setup. Selling used turbo parts sucks, you lose a lot of money on even parts in great shape.

For somebody that was looking to blow $1200 on a GT series, I could see the point. Or somebody on the fence between headwork vs this, I could see saving the headwork $ spent on revs spent on something that spools sooner with more output than a previous generation turbo.

But let's say I bought the 6265 size for $2100. I would only be able to sell my 6062 PTE for maybe, maybe $500. I'm out $1600. 

I own a big turbo car, but I'm not balla enough to toss out $1600 to swap turbos.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

Spiller337 said:


> This looks so wild.



Is that a truck compound setup?


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

that looks like a 2 stage turbo or 2 chained turbos:thumbup:


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## Boomdaddymack (Jun 19, 2002)

cincyTT said:


> Is that a truck compound setup?


looks like the setup on my 6.4 powerstroke lol.

by the way very nice writeup alopcorn:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Boomdaddymack said:


> looks like the setup on my 6.4 powerstroke lol.
> 
> by the way very nice writeup alopcorn:


Oh yeah that does look like your compounding turbo setup haha! Thnks, watch out for these to start poping up, they are a lil expensive but when you factor in no bov an internal gate it's not so expensive :thumbup:


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Spiller337 said:


> This looks so wild.


I believe BMW 335d uses this config


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Gulfstream said:


> I believe BMW 335d uses this config


Oh really? I thought those were twin turboed v6's. Like 2 separte "twins" turboed.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

BMW doesn't have a v6... it's an online twin.. but their goin single big now... new M3 will be a 3.6l BT... delicious...


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Vegeta Gti said:


> BMW doesn't have a v6... it's an online twin.. but their goin single big now... new M3 will be a 3.6l BT... delicious...


way off...me not you buddy :laugh:


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## FTMFW (Jan 1, 2008)

18T_BT said:


> I want to see what these will actually do, they sound good on paper, have any been tested on any car, not 1.8T even, just any make to prove their claims?


I believe the Sierra Sierra EVO VIII is running an EFR turbo... And they've broken a few records since running it.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

I am forsure going to stay up to date on these turbos. one of them could very easily be under my hood come this time next year when i am back from the desert. itd be cool to be the first to try it out though on the 1.8t platform forsure, doubt it will be me though.

on price. 2500 vs 1500 for say a precision 5857 (thats what i was looking at)

less 250 for a wastegate
less 200 for a bov
less 300+ for a ebc
= 750


yah, i would def pay an extra $250 for something if this caliber.

say the 8374 spools 300rpm sooner than the 35r and make 50 more hp. i would pay the extra 1000 for it and be damn happy. but thats just me i guess. it might be the turbo of the future but the great thing about stuff like this is it pushes other companies to do the same thing and do it better. i guarantee by the time i get back from the desert that there are 2 other companies with some similar platform.

i cant wait to see true side x side results with these EFR

intrigued


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

velocity196 said:


> Oh really? I thought those were twin turboed v6's. Like 2 separte "twins" turboed.


Buddy of mine has just bought the 335D and remapped it. Mentioned its a twin turbo that has only 1 downpipe... must be this kind of setup. It pulls like a train as well. 308hp on the wheels and pulled on two BMW M3's last week. Extremely impressed from a diesel.


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

derekb727 said:


> on price. 2500 vs 1500 for say a precision 5857 (thats what i was looking at)
> 
> less 250 for a wastegate
> less 200 for a bov
> ...


Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I've read, you don't get an EBC with your turbocharger. It comes with an integrated solenoid for use with an EBC. Or the solenoid could be controlled by ME7.x, which is a poor choice when running hardware like this.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Full Race said:


> A Boost Control Solenoid Valve (BCSV) is included with every EFR turbo -- For electonically controlled boost levels, an Electronic Boost Control Solenoid (EBCS) is integrated right into the compressor housing. This solenoid is truly OEM quality and uses an industry standard fuel injector plug, making it easy to connecting to multiple boost control systems. Of course if the hardcore racers want to use an external solenoid OR a manual boost controller (without the integrated EBCS), that is very easy to do..



i guess you can take that both ways


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

TheBossQ said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, but from what I've read, you don't get an EBC with your turbocharger. It comes with an integrated solenoid for use with an EBC. Or the solenoid could be controlled by ME7.x, which is a poor choice when running hardware like this.


Yeah not a full EBC system. It come with the solenoid to run a gear based boost or what have you. I think all EBC kits come with their on solenoid. And the tru boost is cheap at 200 to250 on eBay. Had mine for a while now, works great!


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

FTMFW said:


> I believe the Sierra Sierra EVO VIII is running an EFR turbo... And they've broken a few records since running it.


Ugh. I wants.


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

verrrry awesome stuff! so, i'm not so hot with maps, but which of the EFR turbos would yield between 350-400whp?


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## CD155MX (Dec 18, 2007)

I wonder why they don't offer a V-banded turbine flange.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

CD155MX said:


> I wonder why they don't offer a V-banded turbine flange.


You sure they don't? That first post by Velocity seems to be v-band


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

inivid said:


> verrrry awesome stuff! so, i'm not so hot with maps, but which of the EFR turbos would yield between 350-400whp?


The 7064 is in that range. :thumbup:


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## CD155MX (Dec 18, 2007)

groggory said:


> You sure they don't? That first post by Velocity seems to be v-band


I mean on the inlet side of the turbine housing.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

CD155MX said:


> I mean on the inlet side of the turbine housing.


Only t3 and t4 sept the really tiny ones that I didn't list are t25 flange.


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## FTMFW (Jan 1, 2008)

the .63ar is T25 and everything else is T3/T4 from what I saw.


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## Matt1023 (Oct 1, 2007)

I noticed borgwarner is now offering they're sxxx series with billet wheels... Specifically I saw the s259 with a billet wheel being offerend, im sure s3xx series will get the upgrade too. very interesting..


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

That GTX-3071R looks damned great right now


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## JWoody (May 17, 2006)

Gulfstream said:


> I believe BMW 335d uses this config












-J


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

screwball said:


> That GTX-3071R looks damned great right now


yeah i guess! sept why not sell your current stuff or not purchase some of the items that are integrated into the EFR's and get more bang for a lil more bucks.  plus the 3071 equivalent EFR 7064 goes all the way to 550hp! thats freakin nuts! and dont forget with those little weight 1 to 1 turbine compressor wheels its going to spool faster than the gt's. think bout a 35r with more power that spools like a 30r. thats hot!!!!!

OBW if you google "bw efr" my post comes up 1st 



JWoody said:


> -J


yeah thats def a twin not a compounding setup.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

Here is the BMW 335D engine. Its an interesting concept with sequential turbo setup. 1 smaller below 2000rpms where a larger takes over.


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

JWoody said:


> -J


Thats a 335i not 335D motor.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

anybody looking into running one of these already? it says they should be available late 2010....uhmmm, its pretty late 2010. are they available somewhere? who's gonna be the guinea pig? :thumbup:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

derekb727 said:


> anybody looking into running one of these already? it says they should be available late 2010....uhmmm, its pretty late 2010. are they available somewhere? who's gonna be the guinea pig? :thumbup:


ill be getting the 8374 but not till this spring.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Gulfstream said:


> Here is the BMW 335D engine. Its an interesting concept with sequential turbo setup. 1 smaller below 2000rpms where a larger takes over.


Nothing new, the Lotus Carlton and mk4 Supra Turbo used a small/big approach; all three cars also have I6 engines


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

probably gonna go gtx next year... and by my bday maybe... redo my entire setup for these beautiful efr's


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

velocity196 said:


> ill be getting the 8374 but not till this spring.



that's great i forsure want to see some results that will really help me out. if you can make 30psi before 4000 rpm and carry that til 9000rpm this will be the perfect turbo for me. thats what i hope it can do anyways


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

velocity196 said:


> The 7064 is in that range. :thumbup:



you sure? the 7064 is rated well beyond that.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

yah specs are very similar between the two.

the EFR is rated more cuz its that much better of a turbo

spools the same as the 3071 but make more power because it flows more, but it spools the same if not sooner


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## Gulfstream (Jul 28, 2010)

wonder how GTX will compare to billet 3071....


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

EFRs a little too rich for my blood.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

EFR's largest model is smaller than mine, so no use replacing something that works fine.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

newto20v said:


> EFR's largest model is smaller than mine, so no use replacing something that works fine.


Maybe you could work up one of these as the sequential twin to your big'un.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

groggory said:


> Maybe you could work up one of these as the sequential twin to your big'un.


i could use my spare 35R for that hahaha


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

newto20v said:


> i could use my spare 35R for that hahaha


You could buy my 35r when I'm done and have twin 35's :laugh:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

so the 7670 flows just as much as a 35r with quicker spool and will hold full boost til redline say 9000.

on a 2.0l with an AEB and cams yada yada yada i've been told that i should see 27+psi by 4000rpm and hold that til my redline of 9krpm.

so a car with 500awhp with full spool by 4k. i think i found my new turbo.

the 7670 with a twin scroll .92 a/r is 1858. 

so price wise less than we thought i believe.

i was looking at a 5857 for 1400 and i would still needed a wastegate and bov.
with the EFR i would not so thats 400 plus in savings not to even add in the cost of the dump tube materials and extra crap associated with the two.


so yes, the EFR series seems to be a no brainer for me. it will be under my hood as soon as i get back, unless something stupid starts happening with them. 

even if they spool the same as a 35r and make the same power, still worth it IMO.

and ive been talking with Full-Race and they are actually going to be testing a 7670 on a A4 1.8t sometime soon with there new tubular wastegateless mani


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

newto20v said:


> EFR's largest model is smaller than mine, so no use replacing something that works fine.


this is just me thinking (yah it kinda hurts)

but even if your turbo flows more (82lbs) then the biggest EFR (79lbs) 

if you reach that 79lbs 1000rpms sooner than you would make 82lbs on your current turbo and hold that same flow of 79lbs til you shift couldn't you be going faster? 

and if you loose less amounts of boost/flow between shifts even though your max flow would be more you might average a higher amount of flow with the EFR.....

did i make that confusing? i suck at describing what i am thinking

correct me if i am wrong


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Damn.... Good schit here fellas been away for a minute... is the OLD 1.8T forum back?:thumbup::thumbdown:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Damn.... Good schit here fellas been away for a minute... is the OLD 1.8T forum back?:thumbup::thumbdown:



i havnt seen you post in a long ass minute~! where you been? 

it aint totally back yet but there is some good stuff surfacing it seems like


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## AudiA4_18T (Mar 15, 2006)

derekb727 said:


> that's great i forsure want to see some results that will really help me out. if you can make 30psi before 4000 rpm and carry that til 9000rpm this will be the perfect turbo for me. thats what i hope it can do anyways


While I do hope you are correct, this is a pretty absurd goal for a turbo on a 1.8-2L motor


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Damn.... Good schit here fellas been away for a minute... is the OLD 1.8T forum back?:thumbup::thumbdown:


FAWK no. it's like 5 or so of us id=27 guys and a ****-ton of newbs. everyone needs to come back.

call yor husb'nd, call yor wyfe, call yor kids, cuz newbs be runnin **** in hur.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

inivid said:


> FAWK no. it's like 5 or so of us id=27 guys and a ****-ton of newbs. everyone needs to come back.
> 
> call yor husb'nd, call yor wyfe, call yor kids, cuz newbs be runnin **** in hur.


They can pretend all they want, we know who run the show up in here home boy 

opcorn:


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## chopped liver (May 30, 2010)

derekb727 said:


> this is just me thinking (yah it kinda hurts)
> 
> but even if your turbo flows more (82lbs) then the biggest EFR (79lbs)
> 
> ...


while this might hold true, i have YET to really push my setup at all.... and to replace something for the sake of "its new" or "its shiny" is senseless in my eyes.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

chopped liver said:


> while this might hold true, i have YET to really push my setup at all.... and to replace something for the sake of "its new" or "its shiny" is senseless in my eyes.


totally true, dont change what aint broke, (knock in wood)



> While I do hope you are correct, this is a pretty absurd goal for a turbo on a 1.8-2L motor


why is this so absurd? maybe 30 by 4000 might be a lil high but 25ish would be awesome and 30psi through the powerband? and 500awhp is far from absurd.

please explain your reasoning *AudiA4_18T*


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

Matt1023 said:


> I noticed borgwarner is now offering they're sxxx series with billet wheels... Specifically I saw the s259 with a billet wheel being offerend, im sure s3xx series will get the upgrade too. very interesting..


to be more precise those are bullseye power turbos not borg warner i spoke to wild bill at BEP a while back and asked about the billet series and he said what they have been noticing is the billet turbos will spool like the turbo below them but make the power of the turbo above them vs the cast wheel ...unfortunately they only make the 59 wheel and 66 on up to 80 mm turbos so no 62 or 64 mm turbos in billet and the price is on part with the HTA turbos from forced performance ...
http://www.bullseyepower.com/billet.asp

and full race has released their new pricing for the EFR series 
http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-8374-turbo.html
so for the new price i say they are quite a steal ..

and while yes i agree just getting something cuz its new and shiney may not be the most practical reason to uprade but for the guys who havnt bought anything yet should really look into new things/ hardware and software .. after all we already know what works now lets see what REALLY works .. cuz there is a difference ...


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## chopped liver (May 30, 2010)

oh yeeaaahhhhhh..... BEP S366XL  45psi by 5700 rpm here unfortunately. LOL

gonna stir it up even more, not that it is pertinent to the EXACT topic.

CompTurbo is having their version of Black Friday sale, 25% off.... and also the upgrade to a billet wheel (normally $350) for free. triple ceramic BB anyone?

so that makes a really nice price break. but its only good til Dec 3rd......


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

that's a old deal. I think it's funny that we're so behind in tech yet when something line thus comes along so few want to take the risk to try. if I had the cash and the equipment to redo my setup.. I would. I really hope to see some of this next year in here. 

Aaron you and al and a few others are still pushing it, especially in racing but even in street tech and just innovation.


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## chopped liver (May 30, 2010)

i take risks


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I guess we'll see how my tax return is this year...


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

FS: T3 GT3071r .63 ...never used. Now taking offers. :thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

yes you Aaron, but we need more than 2,3 guts taking risks.. and what better than more people doing different and new things. forward progress.

I dig this because I'm an efficiency freak


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

if i wasnt in the middle of a deployment you best believe that i would be picking one of these up

ohh and fyi

Full-Race only has 40 EFR's that they were allotted in there first order. they expect the next order to come in aprox. 3 months

so get your sooooon!!


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## AudiA4_18T (Mar 15, 2006)

derekb727 said:


> totally true, dont change what aint broke, (knock in wood)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


First off, getting 30psi by 4000 requires a turbo that is smaller than a 30R. Sure you can help efficiency or throw a smaller housing on there to get the spool, but then you end up sacrificing power.

Now that you have your spool, you want the thing to stay spooled until 9000rpms? Absurd man. My 35R .82 doesn't even hold power until 9000rpms. The only way I could see a turbo that spools that fast but has the power up top is the Holset HE351VE Variable Vane turbo.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

chopped liver said:


> i take risks


Not me. I push, and maybe give a couple bit(& slaps, but I never go for the KO. There is no reason at all to place me on Aarons level. He builds race cars. Me, I build bada$$ street cars. Not the same . 


I'm officially taking myself off the EFR band wagon. Sorry for misleading anyone however with Issams help I'm moving into a different direction. :beer:


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## chopped liver (May 30, 2010)

and to think, i have yet to really push this thing.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

chopped liver said:


> and to think, i have yet to really push this thing.


Stop it. 45psi is more than pushing. It's a rocky double knockout I'd say.


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## chopped liver (May 30, 2010)

velocity196 said:


> Stop it. 45psi is more than pushing. It's a rocky double knockout I'd say.


double KO..... yeah yeah. but those two were not intentional. and we know the results.

when *I* run 25+ degrees, and 40+ psi, then we will see whats up.

this next one, its planned..... i drove the car, now its time for a knee in tha neck!


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

chopped liver said:


> double KO..... yeah yeah. but those two were not intentional. and we know the results.
> 
> this next one, its planned..... i drove the car, now its time for a knee in tha neck!


lol


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

so what exactly about this turbo/series actually makes power, and what just makes a more OEM style mounting?


:beer:


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

TBT-Syncro said:


> so what exactly about this turbo/series actually makes power, and what just makes a more OEM style mounting?
> 
> 
> :beer:


I think its just something "new". I wouldnt doubt if Garrett has something around the corner to compete with this....


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

INA said:


>


spill it, buddy. what do you know? :laugh:


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

INA said:


> I think its just something "new". I wouldnt doubt if Garrett has something around the corner to compete with this....


Some of te features here have been done before. But to my knowledge (which isn't very big) nobody has mass produced a titanium alloy turbine wheel that weighs 1:1 with a compressor wheel. Between that the integrated BOV and high flow wastegate that a pretty kick a&& turbo. Everywhere you look these days they make billet comp wheels so that's almost a standard now huh. And may I remind you Garrett was the last major company to offer this :thumbdown:. Just sayin roto meister


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

velocity196 said:


> And may I remind you Garrett was the last major company to offer this :thumbdown:.


Try the first 
"GTX" is just another marketing ploy by Garrett.They have been doing billet comp wheels for years...just not intended for what you and I need.
whatever the case I would love to see if BW does a T25 flanged turbocharger.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

Issam Abed said:


> Try the first
> "GTX" is just another marketing ploy by Garrett.They have been doing billet comp wheels for years...just not intended for what you and I need.
> whatever the case I would love to see if BW does a T25 flanged turbocharger.


Yep yep, but I said mass produced . Those originally came out for race cars more or less in a T4 correct me if I'm wrong. And a T25? What in the world do you wanna see a T25 for? To small for anything we here want. Or are referring to triplets :laugh:


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## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

They are doing a t25 program. In due time I feel they will void the incorporated BOV. There is a OEM manufacturer looking to them already for a factory upgrade program. The large OEM manufacturer found it took away 15% of the efficiency/performance in the compressor.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

California Jay said:


> They are doing a t25 program. In due time I feel they will void the incorporated BOV. There is a OEM manufacturer looking to them already for a factory upgrade program. The large OEM manufacturer found it took away 15% of the efficiency/performance in the compressor.


LOL 15% huh? So if the cover was redesigned without a BOV we would see an additional 120hp? LOL I don't see the problem with it, and with out it if it did net a 15% increase that just goes to show the EFR owns all turbos size to size!


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

AudiA4_18T said:


> First off, getting 30psi by 4000 requires a turbo that is smaller than a 30R. Sure you can help efficiency or throw a smaller housing on there to get the spool, but then you end up sacrificing power.
> 
> Now that you have your spool, you want the thing to stay spooled until 9000rpms? Absurd man. My 35R .82 doesn't even hold power until 9000rpms. The only way I could see a turbo that spools that fast but has the power up top is the Holset HE351VE Variable Vane turbo.



ok well the 7670 that has my interest is about the same specs as a 30r (actually a lil smaller like you said). there have been ppl make 30psi at 4000rpm on a cammed 2.0l

also, the 7670 flows 1lbpm less than your 35r and it is rated for 150hp more....

technology is still awesome and brings things to the table that no one would expect.

so from what i have seen as far as specs i dont think what i want is absurd, although i am still awaiting some real world dyno's of these EFR turbos


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## enginenerd (Oct 20, 2010)

Not to mention that they are posting class leading efficiency numbers, WITH the BOV housings... Are we to believe that by eliminating that, they would improve the compressor efficiency to nearly ~90-95%? I think not.


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## jc_bb (Sep 27, 2005)

do these mate up with Tial Vband housings?


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## ncsumecheng (Nov 1, 2005)

Due to the difference in lift of our heads vs an Evo or B18, I still see the average 1.8T having to run mega-boost to see the same numbers on a 6262.

I've seen a few dynos on Hondatech of B18's on 20 psi making tons of power.

I have what I have for now, but don't like having to run usually 8lbs more than any other import 4cyl to keep up. More boost usually necessitates better gas or just not running more boost on the street for us.

They can run 25psi and make 600's all day long on a 6262.


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## enginenerd (Oct 20, 2010)

Get better port work / manifolds / cams. You can get damn close to those guys- but not quite because our small bore is restrictive on valve area. 

Our valve can't open very quickly either thanks to the small lifter bucket on the intake side, so a very big cam that works well for 8500+ rpm results in somewhat crappy vacuum at idle. 

It's doable though.


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

If you look at the thread title quickly it says "BEER vs Garrett GT", I swear it does. Just putting that out there. :beer:


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

inivid said:


> If you look at the thread title quickly it says "BEER vs Garrett GT", I swear it does. Just putting that out there. :beer:


ha it sure does lol never noticed it till you pointed it out


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

kamahao112 said:


> ha it sure does lol never noticed it till you pointed it out


LOL, I don't think I've had enough to drink :thumbdown::laugh:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Yeahh.... If it's gonna run me $1700 for a GTX 3071R, I'd definitely go EFR in heartbeat instead.

Albeit T25 - it's $1550 : http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-6758-turbo.html

Not apples to oranges by any stretch but for $1700+ : http://www.full-race.com/store/turbos/borgwarner-efr/borgwarner-efr-6758-turbo.html


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

i wanted the EFR but in reality i just had no room because of the wastegate .. and that will be downside to the efr series .. so unless you have a custom manifold made for this turbo on your car you will have a hard time as far as fitment .. so until there is more housing options available a garrett or similar may still be a better option ...and until there is more options instead i went this route on my car ... for now ...lol..

























test fitting in my car


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

me likey man

def super fukn stoked for this!!

i am def gonna have to step up in size this summer....even though i love my 3071r:beer:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

regarding fitment if there's setups out there running transverse quattro kits and lhd kits successfully then I'm sure there's a way to retrofit these turbos to existing manifolds. I know that leaves a lot of grey area in interpretation, but I'm looking to get a custom downpipe made anyway, if I have to flip the EFR to work I won't be too far off w/ a capable shop fabbing up the rest of the stuff anyway. my tax return's looking good and heavy for this year, we'll see what pans out.


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## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

kamahao112 said:


> test fitting in my car


better be! That turbo has no business being on a small port head! 4real


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

Put my name on a 8374 twin scroll .92 T4 and Full Race manifold.

Notice the power ratings for te 8374 are already increased from 600hp to 750hp ? Even the 7670 from 500hp to 650hp lol.. these things are out of control. The spool on this turbo w/ .83 T3 open is slightly faster then a .82 GT35R. The twin scroll t4 .92 will spool even faster (which is why I went this route).


The 6758 is rated at 480hp, and there is a Cobalt tuner making 540whp! Image what an 850hp rated turbo will be able to make..:screwy:

T3 .82 GT35R vs .83 T3 open scroll 8374










Sierra Sierra Evo with 8374


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i don't want the wg or the bov/recirc


just all the other goodies it has...


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

For the twin scroll guys it's an awesome convenience to have an internal wastegate and it simplifies the setup A LOT. Why wouldn't you want to run one ? It's a 42mm internal valve, and if you look at that graph you can see that the efr internal WG vs the 35r ext WG it hold boost much better all the way until redline.

WINNING

The bov is functional and it's actually pretty loud considering. Again it simplifies your oc piping allowing smooth transitions all the way to the throttle body.


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

The big 42mm internal WG valve 










7670 efr shaft vs gt30r :O 











Twin scroll internal wastegate exit










Mmmmm this is a must have too !!










From Al's thread, the quality in finished machining is much nicer too.


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## turbo2.24.1990 (Jun 2, 2008)

sorry to reawaken this one, but ive been thinking hard on whether or not it would be worth getting th 7670 efr t4 twinscroll vs. upgrading my 3076 to an hta3076. ive seen that particular efr for 1800, and id have to drop 600 to upgrade to an hta. i could sell my 3076 for 1k and drop 800 for the efr, and then id have to change the exhaust a bit but that wouldnt be hard


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

turbo2.24.1990 said:


> sorry to reawaken this one, but ive been thinking hard on whether or *not it would be worth getting th 7670 efr t4 twinscroll *vs. upgrading my 3076 to an hta3076. ive seen that particular efr for 1800, and id have to drop 600 to upgrade to an hta. i could sell my 3076 for 1k and drop 800 for the efr, and then id have to change the exhaust a bit but that wouldnt be hard


EFR Turbochargers are performing amazing in comparison to the same rated Garrett units. The problem is availibility. There is now a 14 month waiting list for the 7670's...:screwy:

Given that time frame the HTA upgrade will shine.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

wow, what gives with the availability


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Is someone eating the components and delivering these "babies"? 

14months?:screwy::screwy::screwy:


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

Well i ordered a 7670 TS internal wastegate back in Aug 2010, from Treadstone... gave up in end.
But they got a 8374 TS internal gate in stock back in Dec so i took it...

Just fabbing up the Manifold and finishing off the full build its a Seat Leon Mk1, conversion to 4wd using Haldex system, 2.1T engine. 
I'm gonna be another couple of months before it's finished but i'll post up some results when i'm done. 
May write a build thread if people want it.

Couple of pics of the turbo etc -

Here's one next to the standard K03s -











































Manifold, Using sch10 316ss, 1.25" for better spool up, all equal length within 0.5".

















An pics on the car -


















Tell me if you guys want more i will put together a build thread


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## Pisko (Jan 14, 2006)

Now that just makes me horny aka u need to make a build thread yes


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

you have that turbo, a great exhaust mani..and a stock intake mani? i am assuming you'll be making an intake manifold as well?


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## babarber (Nov 3, 2008)

my thoughts exactly i was like wtf is a stock intake manifold doing on that setup


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

stock intake mani's ftw! :laugh:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Build thread! And no Tuborg?!


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## Grahams81 (May 10, 2011)

I have a large port SEM on its way along with a set of IE strip cams and Maestro 7 on its way from Clay 

I will start a build thread tomorrow as its quite late here in the UK :wave:

Cheers for now.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

most excellent!!:beer:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

i wonder how these would fair on the diesel.... i could use the wastegate, not so much the BOV but would be interesting if the numbers are there to support it.


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