# 2.5 timing jump after chain job



## Deutschmark (Sep 2, 2013)

Hello, this one is really stumping me. :banghead:

I work at a german auto repair facility and ended up buying a 2.5 jetta for real cheap because it needed timing chains. I bought the complete chain kit from ECS for the BGP engine and did the job. 
I replaced all the tensioners and guides; but the kit ended up giving me the wrong lower chain, so I reused the old one. 
Once I was done with the new installation, I checked and rechecked the timing to make sure it was spot on and it was. But after driving the car for about a week or two the timing jumps and I get the incorrect timing correlation code.  so I reset the valve timing and it was good again. problem is i drove the car to new england and the code came back and I'm 700 miles away from my shop.
Its not a fun job to do these chains. The only thing I can thunk of is a bad lower tensioner causing this. 
Anybody have any input?


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## mewert (Nov 26, 2013)

I have a 2006 Jetta at the dealer right now, 55k miles, with a jumped chain, they are blaming it on the tensioner and also added that it is very common in that engine. Sure did not make my day, chain should be good for 150k +. Waiting to hear back from VW people to see if they will go good for the job.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

mewert said:


> ... they are blaming it on the tensioner and also added that it is very common in that engine.


"they" were telling you the truth. unfortunately, it is destined to happen to the pre-2007 2.5 liter engines.

and yes, the later models, if properly maintained, can easily go 200k+ miles on the original chains.


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## iowarabbit (Mar 29, 2007)

Deutschmark said:


> Hello, this one is really stumping me. :banghead:
> 
> I work at a german auto repair facility and ended up buying a 2.5 jetta for real cheap because it needed timing chains. I bought the complete chain kit from ECS for the BGP engine and did the job.
> I replaced all the tensioners and guides; but the kit ended up giving me the wrong lower chain, so I reused the old one.
> ...


if you replaced the tensioners and you still have issues, i'd be concerned that the chain itself has stretched. ecs owes you the proper chain anyhow, so i'd get that out of them and compare the two before you install the new one to see if that's your gremlin.


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

the biggest concern would be the torque for the cam gears. Those bolts are stretch bolts and should be replaced. I went to great lengths to clean the contact surface between the gears and cam shaft ends. The proper torque could be tricky without the right tool to hold the cam gears in place as to not snap the end of the camshaft off. What are the torque specs you used?


I guess if the gear came loose, then the cam shaft would have spun. Did you remove the pin from the tensioner? Also there is an oil passage for the tensioner that has a screen and could be blocked.

edit: FYI, I replaced only my upper chains and guides. The lower has 113k miles on it. I have a BGP.


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## n3gh (Dec 12, 2013)

*Torque Requirements?*



Geo said:


> the biggest concern would be the torque for the cam gears. Those bolts are stretch bolts and should be replaced. I went to great lengths to clean the contact surface between the gears and cam shaft ends. The proper torque could be tricky without the right tool to hold the cam gears in place as to not snap the end of the camshaft off. What are the torque specs you used?
> 
> 
> I guess if the gear came loose, then the cam shaft would have spun. Did you remove the pin from the tensioner? Also there is an oil passage for the tensioner that has a screen and could be blocked.
> ...



I am in the process of replacing the upper timing chain and tensioners now on a 2005 2.5 liter.
What is the proper torque for the Cam Gear bolts? Do I really have to replace them if this is the first time taken off?
Gotta find the Oil screen from under the tensioner mount. The one I removed is torn. I suppose that is a dealer item only.
Thanks in advance for all replies.
Your advice is greatly appreciated.

George


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## Geo (Nov 14, 2000)

If you're at the dealer for the screen, order the bolts too. Why put your motor in jeopardy for 2 bolts? The dealer gave me a read out of the torque specs for that as well. I can't find that paper and remember it being a certain torque + a 90 degree turn.

Just make sure the contact between the gear and camshaft end is clean. There are some special wrenches to help you counter act the twisting when tightening the cam gear bolt which I didn't have. They help keep from breaking the camshaft. I used stuff that I had in the garage and will def look for those wrenches for future chain jobs. I'm pretty sure I just got lucky mine didn't break.


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## n3gh (Dec 12, 2013)

*JOB Done!*



n3gh said:


> I am in the process of replacing the upper timing chain and tensioners now on a 2005 2.5 liter.
> What is the proper torque for the Cam Gear bolts? Do I really have to replace them if this is the first time taken off?
> Gotta find the Oil screen from under the tensioner mount. The one I removed is torn. I suppose that is a dealer item only.
> Thanks in advance for all replies.
> ...


Thanks to everyone who provided information on this job.
I finished up this up yesterday and the engine is running smooth and with 70 miles on it no codes.

So now I have a cam bracket with bolts, Engine crank pin, and a 14mm triple square bit for sale.
Good condition and only used once. Cost me $141 plus shipping. I would would offer these to anyone in need for $90 plus shipping.
Let me know and I can send pictures.
Thanks again and Happy New Year! 

George


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

Deutschmark said:


> Hello, this one is really stumping me. :banghead:
> 
> I work at a german auto repair facility and ended up buying a 2.5 jetta for real cheap because it needed timing chains. I bought the complete chain kit from ECS for the BGP engine and did the job.
> I replaced all the tensioners and guides; but the kit ended up giving me the wrong lower chain, so I reused the old one.
> ...


glad your running. i think you chain jumped because they may have installed the upper chain both camshaft gears have to be pre tensioned, my be why it jumped just throwing some insight


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## iowarabbit (Mar 29, 2007)

Geo said:


> There are some special wrenches to help you counter act the twisting when tightening the cam gear bolt which I didn't have. They help keep from breaking the camshaft. I used stuff that I had in the garage and will def look for those wrenches for future chain jobs. I'm pretty sure I just got lucky mine didn't break.


The cam counterhold wrench is tool T10172, just ordered one myself. The proper pins for the upper and lower tensioners are T03006 and T10115, respectively. Just to round out the custom tooling, the cam locking tool is T40070 and the crank pin is T40069. That, a set of triple squares, and metric wrenches should about cover all the hand tools yeah?


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

This is good info to have in my back pocket. I hope I don't need to do this yet. *Knock on wood, 112K on the clock


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## the snake 87 (May 26, 2013)

Anile_eight said:


> This is good info to have in my back pocket. I hope I don't need to do this yet. *Knock on wood, 112K on the clock


I wish I knew about all this crap before I bought my car to be honest. I bought my 05.5 Jetta 2.5L from my mom in may of last year with 119k on the clock. Got everything up to date, thinking the chain was lifetime in these engines... nope. Chain skipped on a cold start last weekend with only 124k on the odo. I would do it myself but I'm too busy with school. She ran like a champ too.

This issue is really making me worried if the new chain and everything is going to keep my engine running well. I don't know if I should sell my car now and get out from it. Now the vacuum pump has a leak. I can get one through work and install myself, but I don't want to hae to remove the tranny. I seriously love my car too. I took so much pride in not having any dash warning lights! 

Coils and wiring harness are latest revisions, upper chain will be by this weekend, new plugs, oil every 3k miles, tranny oil and filter to be done soon, brakes and fluid were new in May and ceramics with drilled/slotted rotors, filers all changed and coolant is still fresh as day one. New shocks and struts and hardware once I get my return and lower it too.

Aside from the vacuum pump, anything else I need to be worried about?...


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## iowarabbit (Mar 29, 2007)

the snake 87 said:


> Coils and wiring harness are latest revisions, upper chain will be by this weekend, new plugs, oil every 3k miles, tranny oil and filter to be done soon, brakes and fluid were new in May and ceramics with drilled/slotted rotors, filers all changed and coolant is still fresh as day one. New shocks and struts and hardware once I get my return and lower it too.
> 
> Aside from the vacuum pump, anything else I need to be worried about?...


That's a tough bit of luck, but the way I see it all platforms have a problem or two. At least the few problems with this are relatively clear-cut when they present, fairly easily diagnosed, and the ubiquitous replacement engines can often be had for less than the price of a chain job. Might run into the sticking evap purge valve at some point, there are verrrrry rare steering rack issues across the MK5s, but I'm at a loss to come up with much else as far as failure trends go.


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## the snake 87 (May 26, 2013)

iowarabbit said:


> That's a tough bit of luck, but the way I see it all platforms have a problem or two. At least the few problems with this are relatively clear-cut when they present, fairly easily diagnosed, and the ubiquitous replacement engines can often be had for less than the price of a chain job. Might run into the sticking evap purge valve at some point, there are verrrrry rare steering rack issues across the MK5s, but I'm at a loss to come up with much else as far as failure trends go.


Very true. But when it happened it wasn't apparent that is was the chain. I felt it misfiring and was getting codes, but it wasn't making a terrible noise. Since the coils and harness were good, I changed the crank sensor to no avail. Since we couldn't diagnose it at work, I took it to the german shop downtown and they were able to figure it out. If I personally had the time and a engine crane and stand I'd do a swap myself but I just can't.

Also, I may be getting that evap problem too. I pulled code p0442 the same night this issue started and cleared it. The gas cap light hasn't came back yet but the code has. It looks like it's a cheap part so that's not a huge issue, stuff like that is expected.

Thank for your input though. That's about what I've found myself. Ever heard of when an engine rebuild is necessary? Eventually, if I still have this car, I want to disassemble and clean the engine from the ground up and replace any and all gaskets, bearings, etc and also do that lower chain and clutch to maybe a stage 2 or 3 one.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

the snake 87 said:


> I wish I knew about all this crap before I bought my car to be honest. I bought my 05.5 Jetta 2.5L from my mom in may of last year with 119k on the clock. Got everything up to date, thinking the chain was lifetime in these engines... nope. Chain skipped on a cold start last weekend with only 124k on the odo. I would do it myself but I'm too busy with school. She ran like a champ too.
> 
> This issue is really making me worried if the new chain and everything is going to keep my engine running well. I don't know if I should sell my car now and get out from it. Now the vacuum pump has a leak. I can get one through work and install myself, but I don't want to hae to remove the tranny. I seriously love my car too. I took so much pride in not having any dash warning lights!
> 
> ...


Yeah that does seem like some bad luck... I am greatful for the manual trans. The car started in Canada but has been in FL for the last 4.5 years so I don't know if that has anything to do with it. Its not like i have been very easy on it either... Maybe I have been luck but I hope to not have to worry about it until I can get it in the garage in a couple month so I can do it.


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