# 8v engine rebuild - CIS turbo



## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Cant seem to find my old post so I thought I'd make another one with some updates to my build.

Basically im using a '92 golf gti engine and converting it back to cis, lowering the compression and making it more suitable for boost.

Heres a list of work done the the engine at this point:

-head hot tank and sonofluxed for cracks
-head resurfaced just enough to clean it up to keep compression as low as possible
-head machined to accept 2mm oversized valves, valvetrain installed and height adjusted
-head ported and machined to accept CIS fuel injector cups

-block hot tank and sonofluxed
-cylinders bored and honed 
-block surfaced just enough to clean up
-rods resized
-engine balanced and crankshaft polished
-frost and oil plugs replaced
-resurfaced flywheel

Heres a list of parts that I'm using:

-Wiseco 9:1 cr forged aluminum pistons
-custom made cometic head gasket (.098" multilayer metal gasket)
-ARP head studs and rod bolts
-supertech 2mm oversize dished and nitride coated valves w/ 7mm valves stems
-supertech dual valve springs w/ titanium retainers
-autotech 268/260 cam shaft
-adjustable cam gear
-new rod/crank/aux shaft bearings
-Spec stage 2.5 clutch kit 
-weber redline TB port matched adapter to manifold


turbo components:
-volvo 850 turbocharger - td04hl 15g
-audi 5000 turbo WUR
-Volvo 240 turbo fuel distributor
-saab 900 blackstone intercooler
-blitz dd BOV
-custome IC piping

And.. Pics:


























































































































































next step is to assemble the engine I just need to get new bearings for the engine.
For those who are wondering, the compression was lowered from stock 10:1 to 8.6:1

More updates to follow soon, please comment!:beer:


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

How much did u port the head(or hav it ported) cuz i can still see all the cast marks in ur pics.They do look nice and uniform. Did u hav it flow tested? Not knocking it just trying to get the info behind it...Also i know the Weber TB is easier to use with turbo cuz its round but the regular MK2 Tb flows more....


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey,
The engine shop did the porting, which yes is very mild, I think it could be opened up alot more, especially since I'm using oversized valves. They didn't flow test the head unfortunately, how much more would you say the ports could be opened up safely? 

I purchased a used audi 5k TB not long ago which I'm running on my 84' jetta currently, I tried running the weber redline on the same car and i hated it compared to the progressive throttle characteristics of the dual port tb, i am just curious to try it with a turbo application. Either way since i have both I can try them both out. 

Thanks for the comment :beer:

-Jason


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

looks like your injector cups stick into the port a mile... or is that how far down they are supposed to sit?


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey Glegor, 
I think its the bad camera angle, the injector cups don't extend into the ports as much as it looks like in those pictures. I dont have my old head to compare it to anymore but I recall it being pretty close. I'll try get some better pics later.


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

great work on the pictures. i am thinking of a aba 16v turbo on cis.
obd1 aba block; audi v8 passenger side head on it.
volvo turbo fuel distributor and WUr. the volvo turbo you have. what year cars came on? how much hp is it good for with the 240t wur and FD? i am aiming for a reliable 210 or 220 hp.
thanks. keeop the pictures and info coming :thumbup:


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

ellocolindo said:


> great work on the pictures. i am thinking of a aba 16v turbo on cis.
> obd1 aba block; audi v8 passenger side head on it.
> volvo turbo fuel distributor and WUr. the volvo turbo you have. what year cars came on? how much hp is it good for with the 240t wur and FD? i am aiming for a reliable 210 or 220 hp.
> thanks. keeop the pictures and info coming :thumbup:


how on earth do you bolt a Audi V8 head on a 4 cylinder block? that doesnt seem possible.


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

that is why i wrote passenger side head. it is a v8 so there are 2 4 cyl heads on one engine


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey ellocolindo,

Not sure what year of volvo the turbo was out of, it came out of a volvo 850 turbo, so it could be anywhere between '92 and '97. The first turbo I pulled at the junkyard was a TD04HL-13T from a S70 turbo but apparently they are exactly the same as the TD04HL-15G turbo. I had to get a custom adapter made to fit the volvo turbo flange to the t3 turbo manifold but it was pretty cheap. Mitsubishi and Subaru TD04 turbo's are the same as volvo TD04 turbo's only they have a different mounting flanges.
From what I've read, the volvo 240t fd w/ wur is good up to 220 hp. Sounds like an interesting project you've got on your hands! 

Had quite a bit of progress on the engine since last post, I assembled the crankshaft after checking main bearing oil clearance with plastiguage, everythings been going smooth so far minus needing new compression rings for the pistons, I made a miscalculation when grinding the piston ring end gap, went a tad too wide and.. I'm not taking any chances... 
Getting the new hydraulic lifters in today in about an hour! After researching I deciding to go with mk4hydraulic lifters since they are quite a bit lighter than mk2 lifters.

Pictures to come!

-Jason


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Heres a few pics, Installed the new mk4 hydraulic lifters, stopped in at the volvo specialist on the way home and scored a volvo 240 turbo cobra style intake boot, and a picture showing the custom made volvo turbo to t3 manifold adapter


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

opcorn:

:thumbup: 


keep up the good work and pictures coming.

hey; what did you pay for the "snake" i have never seen one before.
i can not find a single yard or shop with one of those in like a 200 miles radius. can you get me a shipping qoute to ontario; canada?


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks! many more pics to come, cant wait to get the new piston rings and get the ball rolling again... 

I payed $25 for the volvo 240t intake boot, the shop owner said he's had the thing on the shelf for like 15 years waiting to sell it.. I've been trying to find one for a while, seen some come up on ebay now and then but it wasn't really a necessity at the time... Its def. worth finding this thing if you can because if your using your stock vw intake boot on the volvo 240t FD you have to stretch the heck out of it to get it to fit, even so I had alot of problems with them holding boost, i went through atleast 2 that ended up getting huge cracks in them leaving me on the side of the road. Another thing is because of its large bend it makes intercooler piping less of a headache... I had alot of fun routing the piping, it gets pretty crouded under the hood...

I can send the volvo specialist an email and see if they have any more of the volvo 240t intake boots, but im pretty sure it was they're last, but maybe he can source one from somewhere else.. I'll let you know.:thumbup:

-Jason


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

You can also use the boot from the Audi 5000T...:thumbup: Its wut i used to run...


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

audi cars from the late 70's and very early 80's are extint here in ontario. that is why even at the volvo specific independent repair shops i can not find the intake boot or any other parts for.
some one give me a hand on a price and shipping for it?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

ellocolindo said:


> that is why i wrote passenger side head. it is a v8 so there are 2 4 cyl heads on one engine


tell me more about this.. what engine? whats the head supposed to be? like a 2.0 16v or something?

what sort of modifications need to be done?


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

search on the internet audi 16v on vw motor.
before the tex went down we were talking and posting links to a btcc tech article where the vw block and audi head on N/A format gave the factory sponsored team 300+ hp


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Talked to the volvo specialist and they have one more intake boot if your still interested, I'm going to pick it up in a bit. I can try get a shipping quote for you as well if you want, I'm located on vancouver island B.C., not sure what postage would be to ontario... whats your postal code?

-Jason


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

:beer:

l8h 6p1

thnak you. any poarts you want to trade for?


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey no prob, I'll box it up and get a quote tomorrow. Did you want the thing expedited or just reg. ground service?
What kinda parts do you have that you might want to trade? I can't think of what I need off the top of my head.. have any performance parts? 

:beer:

-Jason


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey everyone sorry for the lack of updates the last few weeks, been busy with work and all:banghead: 
I've made quite a bit of progress here and there since my last post however, I got the new piston rings finally, filed the end gaps to spec and then installed them in the pistons, then installed the pistons.

I managed to get the new camshaft installed with an adjustable timing gear i found at the local vw specialists shop, its originally off of his old rabbit race car from back in the day, a bargain for $20:thumbup:

The head is now installed onto the block at this point.
I've just finished timing the engine and installing the timing belt, and started to install the clutch components but missing one of the pressure plate bolts 

Heres a list of new parts I've gathered:

-Mallory hyfire 6 CD ignition box (with a 3 bar map sensor i found at a wrecker, so now I can electronically adjust the timing retard under boost)

-turbo diesel oilpan with new gasket

-1 foot of 1/2" silicone heater hose for the turbo oil return 

-new turbo oil exit flange with 45 degree brass elbow and 1/2" brass barb

-set of new fuel injectors

On to the pics!


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

:beer:Have another update for today, 

Managed to find the missing last pressure plate bolt, I got the pressure plate all mounted up along with the clutch disc and flywheel.









I bought this intercooler off my buddy a few weeks back, not sure what exactly its out of, maybe a DSM i dont know, but it fits perfect for where I want to locate it. 
















Kitty approves 

This is where it will be located , I just need to cut off the top flange and have it face towards the firewall.

















This is the patient that will be aquiring the transplant: '84 jetta 4 door w/ round headlight conversion.









Comments please :beer:


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

sick. I love this.

Is your vbelt on inside out??


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks! :beer:

Nope the v-belt is correct, the inside is chamfered for the pulley :thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Good to see another 8V CIS turbo project coming along!!!

Can't wait to hear how it all goes. 

If you can build the engine, tuning will be piss easy.

Its all a juggling act of static timing, timing boost retard & turbo boost.

Then you add more "system pressure" fuel pressure to the mix, turn the boost up bit by bit till your A/F mixtures start to lean out, then start adding in extra injectors.

If you'd like, I can post up all my setup specs to help you with a baseline to start with.


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

:thumbup:thanks jason for the hook up with the volvo turbo intake snake. now i am one step closer to putting this 16v turbo on cis together.
i have the volvo turbo warm-up regulator and injectors with lines.
i have a new exhaust manifold; it is a t4 flange.
i have a new gt42 turbo with t4 flange but i am afraid it will be too much turbo for what i want.
i want around 200 to 220 hp.
after that hp you need to start thinking about bigger and better clutch; tranny work inside; axles; brakes; tires.
too much money.
also i have a used t3 eagle talon turbo i can get rebuilt for free by a friend that does turbos.
so i need to decide what turbo i am going so either i rebuild the one or buy a new manifold to accomodate the other.
i have the 16v knock box but no wiring for it.


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey no problem for the volvo intake boot ellocolindo :beer: Glad to have been some help. How is your project coming along? sounds like you've got some nice bits and pieces for your setup, have you decided on which turbo you will use yet? 

Not too much to update regarding my engine at this point, 
I decided to steal some parts off my old engine though and use them on my new one. I managed to get the intake and exhaust manifold mounted up, attached the alternator and made sure all the pulleys lined up properly, next step will be to re-time the engine. 

I picked up an AEM UEGO wideband kit on the weekend finally , so I that should conclude all the electronics I need for the build at this point. 

I'm debating if I should keep the turbo oil feed line coming from the side of the head, or If I will need more pressure? I didn't run into any issues in the past, It was just recommended by someone that I should run it off the filter housing instead... I'd rather use what I have if it works.. but If I need more pressure I'll have a new line made. Any opinions? 

Heres a couple recent pics, 

















More updates to come soon, thanks for looking 

-Jason


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## h00ters CEO (Jan 24, 2008)

sick LOVE the blue :beer::beer:


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## Rabbitissimo (Dec 21, 2009)

That blue makes me feel all warm inside. 
Did you get that powder coated? Please share your awesome paint mojo!


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

thanks for the comments :beer: 
It's not powdercoated, its just high temp. engine enamel I found at the engine shop a while back :thumbup: Everything was basically cleaned in a solvent tank, primer coated then painted


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I did my oil line from the side of the head that's how my G60 was routed and I have seen many people run them from there so there should be no problem:beer: 


mine is a xflow on a 1.8 but same conceptopcorn: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5048934-G60-to-Xflow-turbo-build


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Good to know! Thanks Svedka, 
btw very nice build, looks sick! :thumbup:


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

nice build jason. 
how many engines looking like that do you have laying around? 
i am not building the engine yet. i keep collecting parts for it yet. 
what turbo is that? 
is it a t3 or t4 flange? 
maybe something small like that. 
maybe the gt42 is too much turbo for a 220 hp set-up? 
i will run the oil feed line off the filter housing myself. 
:thumbup:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> .Also i know the Weber TB is easier to use with turbo cuz its round but the regular MK2 Tb flows more....


 Any proof of this? Not trying to discredit you but I would like to see the info for myself:beer: 

every car I have converted to a single butterfly weber has seemed to even out the power band and the AFR yet alone I always seem to feel better throttle responseopcorn:


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks for the comments, :beer: 
ellocolindo, I'm using a volvo 850 turbocharger, its a TD04-HL 15G which has a T3 flange but.. it also has a round recessed area as you'll see in the pic below, I had a custom adapter made to adapt the manifold to the turbo flange properly. 








Its not a very large turbo, but It was still plenty of fun on my old engine, it spools up fairly quickly but i it still holds boost well up into the higher rpms. I'd still prefer to find something along the lines of a 16G turbo but for now this is all I need, I have a spair 15G for parts incase this one runs into any problems:thumbup: 

Svedka, I'm also curious to see some info regarding the the single butterfly weber TB vs dual butterfly TB, it would be nice to see some dyno results. 
There was a thread I read a while back and alot of people seemed to not like the weber TB because of the 1" adapter plate and the transition it made, because it was clunky and generic looking, and because of its "on off" switch characteristics, but I think if you have it port matched to the manifold and your engine is modified to allow more flow it would be ideal especially for forced induction right? I think if you slap it on a stock or mildly modified engine your not going to notice much performance increase other than the throttle response being more instant and probably a loss of bottom end torque opposed to the progressive throttle response of a dual butterfly TB. 

-Jason


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Dont remember where the post was but i did have this discussion with ny_fam from scientific rabbit a while back and he's tested the flow on both and the stock mk2 flow more. The Weber TB were meant as an upgrade to the smaller mk1 TB's. The false better response your feeling is from it having one butterfly and the snappy all or nothing response. Where the progressive is alot smother due to the 2 butterfly's but actually is flowing more even though u dont feel the snappiness as much.



Svedka said:


> Any proof of this? Not trying to discredit you but I would like to see the info for myself:beer:
> 
> every car I have converted to a single butterfly weber has seemed to even out the power band and the AFR yet alone I always seem to feel better throttle responseopcorn:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> Dont remember where the post was but i did have this discussion with ny_fam from scientific rabbit a while back and he's tested the flow on both and the stock mk2 flow more. The Weber TB were meant as an upgrade to the smaller mk1 TB's. The false better response your feeling is from it having one butterfly and the snappy all or nothing response. Where the progressive is alot smother due to the 2 butterfly's but actually is flowing more even though u dont feel the snappiness as much.


yes but was the research done on the Weber with the early rabbit plate or was there port work done to match it to a mk2 I had to remove lots of material to port match the few ive done


















Also there must be a reason that VW went to a single bore TB :beer:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Maybe its like getting bad service at a restaurant, one person has a bad experience they tell everyone but if one person has a good experience he just goes to sleep

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...e-big-body-Audi-5000&highlight=weber+throttle


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Svedka said:


> yes but was the research done on the Weber with the early rabbit plate or was there port work done to match it to a mk2 I had to remove lots of material to port match the few ive done
> 
> 
> Also there must be a reason that VW went to a single bore TB :beer:



The only one that i know that can answer that is ny_fam cuz from wut i recall he did test them. Ive used the weber TB back in the day plenty of times and never liked it. But then again my car was cis-e. The motors u have pictured using the TB are efi and might be alot smoother. Like i said the only benefit i saw was when i was boosted and was easier to hav a round TB than an oval one. All the ones i had were ported aswell...


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey guys, got a bit more done with the project in the last couple weeks:

-mounted and wired up wideband and routed the O2 sensor to the engine bay
-basically removed everything on or around the old engine to prep. for engine removal, just have a few more things to remove.
-moved the radiator over all the way to the far right rad mounts to make more room for the intercooler. I've decided now that I have more room, I can tilt the intercooler horizontally and it will make the intercooler piping alot easier to route. The intercooler already had a top mounting point, i just bent it so it would beable to match up with a hole I found on the rad support that happens to be in the perfect spot I'll just have to find out where to mount it from the bottom now.
-test fitted a volvo 240 turbo intercooler pipe that i hope will fit properly when the engines installed, I worry that it'll hit the firewall but i can always modify it.. its just nice because it has the perfect shape to it, it wraps around the from the turbo over the intake manifold like its made for it.
-got a new seal for the volvo 240 turbo air box, attached the airbox to a "cold air intake" style adapter off of a CIS mercedes.
-Re-used the oilcooler off the old engine, the oil filter housing on my digi engine is a different size and looks a tab bit different, I had to removed the large pipe from the old oil filter housing and fit it on the digi oil filter housing.
-got the new engine timed and installed the timing belt
-bought a new engine hoist 


Pics to come later, my camera battery is charging still,

cheers!


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

jason i am interested to see close ups of the airbox set-up you plan to run.
i have been wondering what to do with mine.
do i used a top and bottom volvo air box? i have 2 upper halves;' there is a 81 non turbo complete airbox at the wreckers but i do not know if they are the same size overall.
or i remove the bosch portion from the volvo fuel distributor head and airbox and relocate atop the vw air box.
is this gasket or seal between the fuel distributor head and plastic air box upper half that ypu got new?
how much? where from? are there more available?


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey Ellocolindo, 
I'll attach some photos of the lower airbox attachment that I'm using, it basically gets rid of the black plastic airbox that houses the recangular drop in filter, nothing changes with the fuel distributor and air flap assembly, you'll see in the pics...
The adapter is made of aluminum and is shallow but enlarges like a bowl below the air flap and has a 2.5" hole allowing you to stick a cold air filter on it, due to the minimal room in the engine bay I got a very short K&N filter thats only 4" long and 6" in diameter. There is nowhere to run the hose from the valve cover to this airbox so I got a K&N valve cover breather.
































There is a gasket between the air flap assembly and the airbox on all CIS fuel distibutor units, some are cork but my original volvo 240 turbo gasket was a hard material that got brittle and cracked so I found a new used one, i had a heck of a time trying to find a new one at parts stores because they couldnt find any part numbers... even the volvo specialist didnt know there was a gasket there until he pulled it apart :sly: so... i got a used cork gasket that was in pretty good shape, i put some RTV sealant on either side of the gasket just incase.

Heres some of the other pictures of the project:
























































radiator all the way to the right 








wideband guage fitted:thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Hey Jason08 

This is awesome to see another CIS build coming along & love how people go about different things in different ways in achieving the same sort of outcome.

Can't wait to hear how it goes.

I only have 2 things I'd look into changing. 

I reckon you may run into problems with the turbo outlet pipe. It appears like it comes up too far & out from the engine. It also appears to be run over the cold start valve & if you have a strut brace fitted, it mayl fowl on it or come close to hitting the bonnet.

The other is I'd really recommend you fitting a oil catch can & breather filter over just using a rocker cover breather filter.

You will be surprised how much the engine will breath on initial running in eg. bedding the rings in etc. & also how much it will start to breath once you really start to boost it.

It will fill the rocker cover filter up quicker than you think, then spew oil out & down onto the exhaust manifold = not a good combination & I'd be double checking the car is insured.



Here are some pics of my setup & you can see how close the turbo outlet piping is to everything. I know the US cars don't have the Brake cross over linkage, but its still close to the fire wall/raintray & also hugs the back side of the intake & come around the side just a shade under where the cold start valve would be fitted.

Also note the engine breather catch can, tubing arrangement.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I would do a catch can or the engine bay will get a good oiling:thumbup:

and that looks like a AFR gauge not a boost gauge?


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks for the recommendations!

Yeah I imagine it will be a tight fit behind the engine, I just had the turbo outlet pipe laying around and got a hunch after fitting it 

I'll def. go the route of catch can over valve cover breather now haha, I have a Vibrant oil catch can laying around from my previous setup, I think I'll resurrect it:beer: 

Svedka, sorry was typing faster than i was thinking haha... fixed the typo :thumbup:

Thanks for the feedback I appreciate it!


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

jason; what model mercedes di dyou get that abomination from? i want one too:laugh:


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

I thought I read a while back that these were on some older mercedes FD units but after researching it seems they were off of early volvo's . I got mine from a fellow vortex'er about a year ago.


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

i will check the 81 non turbo volvo at the wreckers and some old audis or mercedes there too while i am at it:thumbup:


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## John Milner (Jul 20, 2005)

Hows this coming along. Any new updates?


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

i was reading a downloaded volvo 240 service manual last night at home and was check all the oem specs fo rthe volvo fuel dizzy; warm up regulator and so on.
i think the air plate housing from a non turbo is what i want.
it will allow me to stick a cone filter on the end of it. rather that run a complete volvo 240t air box.


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey guys sorry I dont have any significant updates at this point, I've been kinda busy, most of the progress has been prepping for removal of the old engine which I hope to have removed by this weekend weather prevailing 
A couple new things I got, I was surfing the local buy sell and found some hardly used weitec adjustable coilover suspension which I installed on the weekend, just need to adjust them to find the right height, I also ordered a new clutch kit ( centerforce dual friction) which will be in today.

ellocolindo, good luck in finding the volvo airbox part:beer: If you have no luck finding anything I can check with the volvo specialist here again, they will have what your looking for.

Cheers:thumbup: more updates to come sooner or later!


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

well ask the guy if he has a lower portion of a 240t air box. i go tthe upper half with the fuel dizzy installed already.


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## jason08 (Dec 1, 2007)

Hey guys sorry for the lack of updates, as usual been pretty busy but I have made some more progress, 

-New used intercooler (from turbocharged mitsubishi galant) and greddy rs bov (waiting for new weld on flange to arrive in the mail)
-weitec coilovers ( need to make some adjustments still)
-new clutch (decided to go with the Centerforce -dual friction clutch kit) got everything installed..
-mounted Vibrant oil catch cat, just need a breather filter for it.

To do:
-Make lower intercooler mounting brackets and have them welded
-make new radiator mounts
-purchase slim electric fan to allow more room for room
-mount mallory hyfire and figure out wiring
- eventually remove the old engine when it stops raining.. 

Onto the pics :

















































































More updates to come.. eventually! :beer:

ellocolindo have you had any luck finding the lower portion of the airbox? I've been busy but can try get to the volvo place on saturday and see what they have. 

Cheers,

-Jason


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## ellocolindo (Jan 15, 2010)

no time yet. i will check this saturday. if you have the chance ask him how much for it


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