# TDI Problems



## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

My V10 is about 8 months old with 14,000 miles. Have only had a few minor problems up till now - periodic tire pressure gauge malfunctions, and a nav system that resets itself, requiring the 4 digit security code to be input. Recently though, it developed what feels like a computer assisted drivetrain problem. At 30-50 MPW with light application of power, the car "shudders" - it feels like riding over rough pavement. If I give it full throttle, it will kick down, accelerate to about 80 MPH @ 3500RPM, rumble like hell, and won't go any faster. If a let off the pedeal, it smooths out again. This has happened a couple of times, then mysteriously cures itself. It is going into the shop next week, but I don't have my hopes up that this intermittent problem will be acting up in front of the doctor. Anyone else had similar issues?? Thanks.


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

I have the same thing with mine. I can actually recreate it fairly consistently by accelerating hard from 60 to 75 mph in 6th. There was a post here entitled something like “very real V10 transmission problem.” That guy’s problem sounded similar and ended up in a tranny replacement. I have also heard clogged fuel filters could be the cause. I think VW recommends replacement of these after only 20k, so that might be the problem.
I haven’t done anything about it yet since it took my dealership a month to fix an alignment issue, and I don’t feel like being without my Treg for an extended period of time. I will take it in when it gets worse. I also have a clicking sound that is coming from behind the dash when the car is cold, kind of like a relay switching on and off. I am not sure if it is related, but if you have the same thing it may be.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

I had/have the same problem. It will wax and wane but over the
next several days to weeks the problem will become worse.
I had no check engine light. My dealer said why not wait for the
20k service, b/c it is probably a minor issue. Symptoms started 
around 18,500 miles. Last week it became so bad that I could 
barely accelerate to highway speeds. I had to take it in. The engine
light actually came on that day. It has been in the shop one week now.
Here is what has happened so far:
Day 1: They think the mass airflow sensor went out (should
have it fixed in a day)
Day 2: They think one boost pressure sensor went bad (should 
have it fixed in two days)
Day 4: New pressure sensor gives abnormal reading as well.
They report finding "water and leaves" in an air filter.
"have you been driving through standing water?"etc, etc...
will replace air filter by tomorrow but want me to pay for it
Day 5: Something else is wrong. "we can't talk to you
about it" (WTF?), "but we are on the tech hot-line"
Day 6: still waiting
Day 7: still waiting, but they said they will contact me on Monday.
I'll give them credit, My free rental is a brand new black V6 Touareg
with 125 miles.


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## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*

Thanks for your post - I too have noticed the clicking sound, but it is easy enough to turn up the volume on the radio! Lately, the car has developed worrisome habit: for about 60 seconds after I turn it off, I can hear what sound like coolant under pressure "whooshing" around in the engine and the heater core in the pax compartment. Coolant level is normal, and heater functions properly - but the noise is so loud after shutting down it sounds like a plane flying overhead!
Before getting this car, 2 Cayenne Turbos. The first had engine light problems that the dealer proposed solving by replacing the engine. Before that happened, I traded it for Cayenne #2 - that one had persistent radio/nav problems, tailgate latch problems, and wheel sensor problems. Both Cayennes were in the shop more than they were on the road. There is obviously much common DNA between the CAY and the Treg, and that natural selection is going to have to run its course before t these vehicles can succesfully survive in the wild.


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## cctdi (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*

Mine is eight and half months old with 9500 in the odometer. If Spock and Richard got the V10 glitches could mine be spared? Richard, don't bother to count the days. I know how long it took my dealer to fix the leak in the fuel filter houseing unit in the V10-14 days. I can't forget the time for Audi to fix the rear self-leveling sensor in the 4.2 Allroad-12 days. See, the problem you may get is the days for the part to come in. I am waiting for a moter( dealer said it is to replace the hill decent control ) and other tsb soft ware to correct the poping up warning signs. On the other hand, to do the job on the safety recall for Passat tdi (even I don't see the problen ) defect fasteners in the engine cylinder took my dealer only two hours or less, I took the car in at 2 pm today and was called to pick it up at 4. Is this the bright side? So far I haven't seen the mourning uttering out of the Spockcat.


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Richard1* »_I had/have the same problem. It will wax and 
Day 6: still waiting
Day 7: still waiting, but they said they will contact me on Monday.
I'll give them credit, My free rental is a brand new black V6 Touareg
with 125 miles.


Any update? Mine seems to be getting worse as well and I'm thinking about bringing it in soon.


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_... Lately, the car has developed worrisome habit: for about 60 seconds after I turn it off, I can hear what sound like coolant under pressure "whooshing" around in the engine and the heater core in the pax compartment. Coolant level is normal, and heater functions properly - but the noise is so loud after shutting down it sounds like a plane flying overhead!...

Are you sure this isn't the air suspension?


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## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (leebo)*

I brought the car in Monday. The service advisor called today to say that the technician WAS ABLE to duplicate the rippling drive train vibration (but didn't mention the power loss), and would like to keep the car another day. No other details provided yet, except that "we got lots of fault codes" in the memory. The dealer offered to provide me with a free loaner, even though the repairing dealer was not the selling dealer. Will keep you posted.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idiot2* »_
Any update? Mine seems to be getting worse as well and I'm thinking about bringing it in soon.

Its been in the shop 11 days. Still no definite answer.
They tell me that the twin turbos are somehow staged.
i.e. one spins up and then the other will. well, apparently 
the second turbocharger for some unknown reason isn't
spinning up. They tell me this is the reason I was able to 
get low end power, but the car tanked when trying to 
accelerate at speed. No idea on how long this will take.
I enjoy the new V6 touareg they gave me as a rental, 
but really miss my quirky diesel.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Richard1* »_Its been in the shop 11 days. Still no definite answer.
They tell me that the twin turbos are somehow staged.
i.e. one spins up and then the other will. well, apparently 
the second turbocharger for some unknown reason isn't
spinning up. They tell me this is the reason I was able to 
get low end power, but the car tanked when trying to 
accelerate at speed. No idea on how long this will take.
I enjoy the new V6 touareg they gave me as a rental, 
but really miss my quirky diesel.









I sure hope they know what they are doing because I've never read anywhere that the turbos are staged. Best I can tell is that the two halves of the engine are mirror images of each other.


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
I sure hope they know what they are doing because I've never read anywhere that the turbos are staged. Best I can tell is that the two halves of the engine are mirror images of each other. 

I wonder what "staged" meant? If that means that one turbo works at low engine RPM and another turbo works at high engine RPM, then I agree with you. I don't think the V10 has staged turbos in that sense.
It's my understanding that the turbos in the V10 use variable vanes - meaning that the vanes will change configuration to make "correct" use of exhaust gas pressure at low or high engine RPM. So perhaps "staged" was referring to the variable vanes on the turbos. Perhaps one turbo's vanes are "stuck" (somehow). This could certainly cause a problem that might be apparent at specific RPM's/Engine Load.
I guess...


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
I sure hope they know what they are doing because I've never read anywhere that the turbos are staged. Best I can tell is that the two halves of the engine are mirror images of each other. 


I agree but, I'm not going to argue with them at this point.
The role I'm playing is grateful but helpless customer
awaiting warranty work with great patience. 
I am wearing a happy face







when I talk with them.


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## Islandiver (Nov 13, 2004)

My V10 also has the strange ticking sound coming from the dash, In my case it’s the radio, Try turning it off altogether and see if it stops. As for the coolant sound mine does that to, I think its related to the Wabasto heater and for me it only does it on short trips. In terms of trans. problems, I keep experiencing slow and sloppy shifts from 4-5 5-6 6-5 5-4. It acts like a somebody learning how to drive a stick. I figure when it goes in for the next oil change well see if they can fix these problems.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (leebo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebo* »_
I wonder what "staged" meant? If that means that one turbo works at low engine RPM and another turbo works at high engine RPM, then I agree with you. I don't think the V10 has staged turbos in that sense.
It's my understanding that the turbos in the V10 use variable vanes - meaning that the vanes will change configuration to make "correct" use of exhaust gas pressure at low or high engine RPM. So perhaps "staged" was referring to the variable vanes on the turbos. Perhaps one turbo's vanes are "stuck" (somehow). This could certainly cause a problem that might be apparent at specific RPM's/Engine Load.
I guess...

Leebo, thank you for your interest and analysis. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Looks like you have been doing your Fred's TDI page homework
I was doing some other things





















obliviously
er um i mean obviously


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## ksand (May 17, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

Off topic, but...how did you get a TDI in Massachusetts? (I'm assuming your sig is accurate and you're in Boston.) Did you buy it used/bring it in from out of state?
I only ask because I'm jealous!


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## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (ksand)*

Here's how: I had a Jetta (TDI no less!) registered at my Florida residence. Had that car transported to MA for the summer last spring, and while here, traded it on the T-Reg at a NH dealer. I transfered the registration, and the TDI was registered, taxed & titled in FL. Now that the vehicle has 14K miles, it will soon be registered in MA.


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## ksand (May 17, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

Very nice. Oh and welcome to the forum!


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## V10TD4I (May 19, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*

My experience with the V10 this winter is that the "clicking" behind the dash is totally normal, and relates to the heating/recirculation of the coolant in cold ambient temps. I seem to notice the noise after startup when it is <38 degrees. If you shut down the engine while the engine is "clicking" and warming up, you will hear those baffles open and the coolant being recirculated (ie. the "woosh"). Anyway, once the engine block is warmed up, the "clicking" will stop. At least this is my very limited understanding of what is happening. With so many of us experiencing it I'd say the TDI is doing what it is supposed to do in cold weather.
TD


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## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (V10TD4I)*

Regarding the vibration and power loss: the service tech just called to say the problem is a defective drive shaft. It was ordered yesterday, was supposed to be in today, should be in tomorrow and installed in a couple of hours. How can a drive shaft go bad, unless it is in fact the joints or couplings to the tranny/rear end, and what would explain the symptoms being intermittent? Unfortunately, the service writer does just that, and doesn't have the technical information.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_Regarding the vibration and power loss: the service tech just called to say the problem is a defective drive shaft. It was ordered yesterday, was supposed to be in today, should be in tomorrow and installed in a couple of hours. How can a drive shaft go bad, unless it is in fact the joints or couplings to the tranny/rear end, and what would explain the symptoms being intermittent? Unfortunately, the service writer does just that, and doesn't have the technical information.

My TDI had been suffering from symptoms similar to yours. I received a service mangler call today as well, he said they finally found the root cause; a burned out fuel pump that supplies the _slave_ cylinder bank. Not the pump that drives the high pressure injectors, but rather a lowly little pump that resides somewhere toward the rear of the car. Should be fixed in a couple of days.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Richard1* »_My TDI had been suffering from symptoms similar to yours. I received a service mangler call today as well, he said they finally found the root cause; a burned out fuel pump that supplies the _slave_ cylinder bank. Not the pump that drives the high pressure injectors, but rather a lowly little pump that resides somewhere toward the rear of the car. Should be fixed in a couple of days.

Odd that you have found a fuel pump to be the issue. I was reading a PDF I have called *Touareg Electronic Diesel Control EDC 16 Design and Function, Self-Study Program Course Number 89P303* about all the controls and sensors on the V10 engine. One paragraph I noticed said this:

_*Fuel Pumps*
Both electric fuel pumps are installed in the fuel tank.
• Transfer Fuel Pump G23 with Sender for Fuel Gauge G and suction jet pump 1 are located in the main chamber of the fuel tank.
• Fuel Pump G6 with Fuel Supply Sensor 3 G237 and suction jet pump 2 are located in the secondary chamber of the fuel tank.
*Function*
Both electric fuel pumps are actuated via parallel circuits by the Fuel Pump Relay J17. Suction jet pump 1 draws fuel from the main chamber into the presupply reservoir of Fuel Pump G6. Suction jet pump 2 pumps out the secondary chamber into the presupply reservoir of Transfer Fuel Pump G23. Both suction jet pumps are driven by their respective electric fuel pumps. 
*Effects of failure*
If one pump fails, engine performance will be impaired due to a restriction in the
amount of fuel supplied. The maximum speed is unattainable and the engine will not run smoothly at high revs.
If both pumps fail, the engine will not run._


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
If one pump fails, engine performance will be impaired due to a restriction in the
amount of fuel supplied. The maximum speed is unattainable and the engine will not run smoothly at high revs.
If both pumps fail, the engine will not run. 


That fits pretty well with my TDI. Maximum speed was unattainable.
actually maintaining highway speed was difficult. The engine did not
run smoothly at high revs _under load_. You could rev the engine
to redline in neutral without any noticeable problem. I let you know
if this is the fix.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*

Problem is there are other things that have very similar effects of failure.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Problem is there are other things that have very similar effects of failure.

Point taken. (probably several dozen different system failures that could have similar effects). I love my TDI Touareg, there isn't anything on wheels I would rather drive. I hope to put several hundred thousand miles her over the next ten years or so. But after that, so long to high tech. I'll be driving old used stripped down pickups from then on.


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## MV_Photon (Dec 7, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*

I get an intermittent "judder," most often at 60-70 MPH. It's worse under acceleration, and stops when I let off the accelerator (but maintain speed). I get the sense that the torque converter, tranny, or differential is slippping. The suggestion about "priming" the locking differential, from another thread, has not worked for me. When present, the jutter is slowly worsening over time.
Nirvana due to the V-10 TDI engine may have prevented me from noticing this phenomenon when new. At the 5000 mile check, I mis-diagnosed the problem and asked the dealer to check the wheels & tires. At 10,000 miles, I took the service manager for a ride, and demonstrated the problem. 
They've got a drive shaft on order. 
My wife's V-8 underwent drive shaft replacement a few months ago. This week, they dropped the engine on hers to replace a defective starter wire. Absent the V-10 engine, she's no longer enamored with her "buggy" Touareg; indeed, she's now shopping for a Dodge Durango Hemi.


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## Islandiver (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*

Hi spockcat. Where did you find the PDF file and does it contain more information on the entire system. I am still trying to figure out the engine management system. Please let me know what you have. Thanks
Teddy


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (Islandiver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Islandiver* »_Hi spockcat. Where did you find the PDF file and does it contain more information on the entire system. I am still trying to figure out the engine management system. Please let me know what you have. Thanks
Teddy

It was given to me. It is 7 MB, so I can't readily post or email it.


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (Islandiver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Islandiver* »_Hi spockcat. Where did you find the PDF file and does it contain more information on the entire system. I am still trying to figure out the engine management system. Please let me know what you have. Thanks
Teddy

You can buy it from Bentley. I don't remember the cost, but it wasn't that bad. http://www.bentleypublishers.com.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idiot2* »_You can buy it from Bentley. I don't remember the cost, but it wasn't that bad. http://www.bentleypublishers.com. 

Hmmm, $30 softcover book. Maybe I should put together a CD of all of my PDFs?


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

I just drove in from the coast and mine is doing the same thing. It almost feels like the rumbel strips are in the drive line somewhere.
I have a hard time beliving it`s the drive shaft, why would that make it loose power?
I must drive to Fla.next week and I dont think there is time for a dealer trip before it, The car managed to run ok at highway speeds ,It just didn`t like being asked for full power,and it was intermittant power loss,some times it ran great.
What to do?? I`d sure hate to break down 6oo miles from home.


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

This may not be any comfort, but I drove with mine doing this 1,000 miles round trip in two days. Since then, I have put on another 1,000 miles and aside from the shuddering, I have no other problems. 
Having said this, I would still bring it in and try and arrange for a loaner. If your dealer won' do it, call VWOA, they have arranged loaners for me in the past.


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*

Paul, 
Thanks for the reply.My dealer has been great to me loaners when needed a good wash{even inside windows}, I have only good things to say about Flow Vw in Winston-Salem.
I just don`t want to drive to Fla in a loaner, I`ll take it in tomorrow and see if I can get them to expidite a quick repair,Or at least get their blessing for driving it as is.Then they can keep it as long as necessary when I get back.


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jack oconnor* »_
I just don`t want to drive to Fla in a loaner, I`ll take it in tomorrow and see if I can get them to expidite a quick repair,Or at least get their blessing for driving it as is.Then they can keep it as long as necessary when I get back.

Please let me know what they say.


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## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (MV_Photon)*

The dealer verified the 'shuddering', and determined that the cause is a faulty driveshaft. Unfortunately, there are no TDI shafts in the states, so it will take 7-10 days to get one from Germany. Meanwhile, the shuddering comes and goes, but the power loss at higher speeds is fairly consistent. I can get up to about 80-85, and the car simply will not accelerate any more. When it was in its prime, I could pull 1g when accelerating through 80 on the way up to 120 (on a test track of course). I don't understand how a bad driveshaft would cause the loss of power. I think these are two seperate problems with seperate causes. The power loss feels like either inadequate fuel flow, or a speed limiter on one of the chip. I am going to call VW USA tomorrow and get a conversation going with customer service because the dealer either doesn't know, or doesn't want to share.


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_ The power loss feels like either inadequate fuel flow, or a speed limiter on one of the chip. I am going to call VW USA tomorrow and get a conversation going with customer service because the dealer either doesn't know, or doesn't want to share. 

I've also wondered how the two can be related. One thing I have noticed is that when power is dropping off, I can't get it to stay in 6th gear. It seems like it gets stuck in 4th and the RPMs get too high to make power. I wonder if the drive shaft will help with the shifting issue, otherwise I agree it has to be two problems.


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*

Paul,
I just picked my treg. The SA tells me that the prob was waste gates improperly set. Their shop foreman worked on it and reset everthing to basic settings and test drove it,and states it`s good to go,so we`ll see.
Next week I`m off to Fla .That will be a good test ,cause nobody remembers ," I-95 is the road you are on it is not the speed limit sign."


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jack oconnor* »_...the prob was waste gates improperly set...

Interesting. I didn't realize that the turbos on the V10 had waste gates. I was under the impression that the turbos on the V10 didn't need waste gates because the variable vanes permitted the ECU precise boost control...
What part of FL are you driving to? If you're planning to be in Central Florida, please send me an IM...


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (leebo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebo* »_Interesting. I didn't realize that the turbos on the V10 had waste gates. I was under the impression that the turbos on the V10 didn't need waste gates because the variable vanes permitted the ECU precise boost control...
What part of FL are you driving to? If you're planning to be in Central Florida, please send me an IM...

I am pretty sure you are right. I don't see wastegates anywhere in any V10 literature. I do see the servomotors: 
*Turbocharger Servomotors*
The turbocharger servomotors are positioning motors for the turbocharger
vanes. They are bolted to brackets beneath their respective turbochargers.
• Turbocharger 1 Servomotor V280
• Turbocharger 2 Servomotor V281
Each of these positioning motors has its own internal control module.
*Function*
The turbocharger servomotors are actuated by their respective engine control modules via the drivetrain CAN data bus. Their engine control modules also receive feedback indicating vane position and any faults detected. This improves regulation and fault diagnosis. The turbocharger vanes are actuated by a rod assembly.


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*

Spock,
I have the report in front of me right now and it clearly says 
"followed guided fault finding and tested all faults and turbo waste gates.Set basic settings and test drove"
I sure hope I was told the truth, Could they be using the term waste incorrectly? Anyway we will see how it behaves on the trip to Fla.


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

Turbo 101:
Exhaust gas spins a turbo, which generates boost, which makes power. Because they spin so fast, turbos tend to be fragile. A really big tubo will make a lot of boost and hold together better, but because it is so big, it will take a while for it to spool up and so there will be significant lag between when you hit the throttle and when you get the power. Little turbos are the opposite and they will spool quickly but can't generate big boost and can easily develop too much boost and grenade themselves. One solution to this problem is a small turbo with a waste gate. With a waste gate, when boost gets too high, the gate opens and dumps out air which prevents excessive boost and the resulting scattering of parts that can result.
The other solution is a variable-vane turbo. This type of turbo is designed to be the best of both worlds. As the name implies, the vanes in the turbo can change their angle. As you fist start to push on the throttle, the vanes are configured for maximum spool so boost is generated as quickly as possible. As boost gets generated, the vanes open which slows the turbo and controls the boost.
Both Chevy and Ford use variable vane turbos in their diesel pickups and neither have waste gates. I can't say for sure whether the V10 is wastegated, but I bet someone here can figure it out.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idiot2* »_I can't say for sure whether the V10 is wastegated, but I bet someone here can figure it out.

I looked on both the parts list and the VW self study program. No wastegates mentioned.


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## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (idiot2)*

Here's a great pic of the turbo vanes...


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## diesel king (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (leebo)*

Great picture!
(I was wondering about the mechanics of a variable vane.)


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (leebo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebo* »_Here's a great pic of the turbo vanes...









This is obviously why some people are getting surging. The damn vanes just won't stop moving.







Looking at this picture is driving me crazy.


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## CTTreg (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

Don't know if the treg has it but some engines have vibration sensors and throttle back if vibration becomes excessive - have no clue if this applies


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## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (CTTreg)*

The new drive shaft was installed yesterday, and after a road test, the service manager called to say the vehicle still had "driveability" problems, and wanted to take it home with him overnight to verify the loss of power and vibrations. I didn't think the intermittent vibration power loss could be explained by a defective driveshaft. Fortunately, a VW factory rep happened to be at the dealership today. Working with VWOA, they now believe the problem is related to fuel pressure being out of spec, and have ordered 2 new fuel pumps. What surprises me is that none of the problems tripped any fault codes. Until the parts arrive next week, the car is 'down', but VW provided me with a free, brand new Cadillac Escalade loaner. After having the Caddy for 2 days, I would rather be driving my wounded Touareg than this conspicuous, obese, and technologically obsolete truck.


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## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (leebo)*

definitately not the air suspension. Sometimes the car leves or adust itself with just the normal hiss. The wooshing sounds like a running faucet!


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

Hey Jamie, Be glad they didn`t give you a Hummer!!! See things could be worse.I didn`t think the drive shaft option was viable.Sorry the saga continues.


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

Well the test drive to Fl didn`t happen. We got about 20 miles out of town and lost so much power we could not maintain highway speed.
We turned around and limped back to the dealer ,They arranged for a Explorer loaner and we unloaded all of our luggage and stuff in front of the service bay,in front of a lot of customers. Recon what they were thinking???
Anyway the mechanic was still talking waste gates ,and I was thinking WASTE WHAT!!!!!








I`ll phone them tomorrow and try to see whats up. Anyone want to buy a flawless v-10 with only 12,600 miles on it?


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## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

Just got off the phone with the service rep. He says they don`t know whats wrong and are being advised by VW techline ,and hopefully they will resolve the prob today.
I am not that hopefull, and would be mighty surprised,but we`ll see.
I still like the Treg better than any other suv available right now ,but I am sure getting tired of the probs.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

Jack,
Don't get your hopes up. My TDI has symptoms similar to yours.
Its been in the shop for 29 days, and my guys are still
"in contact with the tech line".


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## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

While I am far from knowledgeable when it comes to these things, I do have the good fortune of working with some of the best mechanics and engine builders in the country (particularly when it comes to diesels). One of them was nice enough to drive my V10 and after about two seconds said the problem was transmission related. The "can't get over 80mph" is related to the transmission holding a gear because it is not functioning properly. It seems to be confused and so tries to shift into two gears at once. This also explains the shuddering. As proof, he suggested wiping some tranny fluid on a white cloth and looking for metal parts. Apparently the trannies on the Treg are sealed and so this is not so easy.
Anyway, this is coming from someone with no Touareg experience whatsoever so take it for what it is worth. However the one person on Vortex that has had this issue resolved got a new tranny.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1765903


----------



## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

Neither the fuel pumps nor the new drive shaft fixed the shuddering and loss of power over 80MPH problem. While I am away for the week, the dealer is 'working on it" with VW tech support. With so many cases, why isn't there a known fix. This trial and error approach is a waste of their money and my time.


----------



## depiry (Feb 16, 2005)

Technician may have refered to wastegate not being familiar with variable vane sysyem.


----------



## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: (depiry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *depiry* »_Technician may have refered to wastegate not being familiar with variable vane sysyem.









That seems like an odd mistake to me. I'd be a bit concerned with that kind of mistake coming from the tech working on my truck. At a minimum, I'd seek clarification.
Hopefully the tech didn't fill 'er up with high octane...


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*

Richard , what is the status of your car now?
I just recieved a message from my dealer, he says it`s a bad trailer hitch control module. What do you think of that??
So far the various posts state:
bad transmission
bad fuel pumps
bad fuel filters
bad drive shaft
Bad ecm,or whatever
now a trailer hitch!!!!!!!
I FOEGOT ABOUT THE WASTE GATES
If that truly is the case these damm things are too sensitive for me !
Why would a trailer module cause the engine to quit running?????


















_Modified by jack oconnor at 8:09 PM 3-24-2005_


----------



## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

I'm no mechanic and maybe your problem is different than mine, but I have no hitch on my V10 (although I suppose I may have a trailer hitch module.)


----------



## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jack oconnor* »_Richard , what is the status of your car now?



I called them today. They said the TDI tech has had the car for a 
day or two. He has been driving it around and everything seems 
to be working well. But, they are starting to get low pressure 
readings on the front fuel pumps. They aren't sure of the 
significance of this yet, so they want to hold onto the car until
they are sure its better.


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*

Richard, what`s up with your car now? Is it fixed yet?
I just got off the phone with the dealer and needless to say the trailer module did nothing to correct the prob, so it`s back to tech line.
I told them about the only car fixed so far had to have a new transmission, and believe it or not but they haden`t heard about that! Who else besides us victems reads this forum???








It`s been two weeks and counting, The rental Ford Explorer has come in mighty handy ,and I never have to worry about if it will start or not.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

What have they actually replaced in your V10 besides the trailer control module?
Are there any fault codes? Do you know which ones if any have come up?


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*

I dont know the answer to your questions ,but I plan to get some more info tomorrow.Will let you know when and if I hear anything worthwhile.You knew about the waste gate business.
They also mentioned something about an instrument cluster,but it was just in passing,and I didn`t have time to pursue it.


----------



## idiot2 (Jan 12, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

Given that the only known fix involved a tranny, I would ask them to pour some tranny fluid over a white tissue paper and see if there are any metal shavings.  Even on the Treg, this should not be too hard and while not eliminated a tranny issue, could certainly confirm one.


_Modified by idiot2 at 9:53 PM 3-29-2005_


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

This AM the local dealer mechanic test drove my car and it did all the shuddering and stumbling stuff.
This PM the VW QTM test drove it with the mechanic and it performed flawlessly.
So there is no answer yet. I have to go out of town tomorrow ,and there is no way I would drive the Treg.So it will stay at the dealer till they fix it right.


----------



## MV_Photon (Dec 7, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

Clearly, two completely independent problems have been described within this thread:
loss of power -- fuel system

shuddering -- drive shaft

Unfortunately, VWoA has failed to discern such a distinction. 
My TDI certainly has not suffered in the speed/power/acceleration department. Thanks to my Valentine1 RD and an enlarging prostate, I recently made a non-stop (~500 mile) midnight run up I-95 from Florida, averaging 83 MPH and 21.8 MPG. The shuddering has gradually been increasing in both frequency and intensity, not clearly correlated with speed or ambient temperature. With the windows open, an associated _bang_ is audible; that is perceived to emanate from the undercarriage.
Weeks (and 5000 miles) after the shuddering was re-evaluated at the 10,000-mile service visit, I dropped off my V-10 at the dealer this week because "the parts were in." Incredibly, VWoA insisted that the dealer install new fuel filters, rather than a drive shaft.







Of course, that wasn't effective. *Duh-uh!* Only now would I be placed on the waiting list for a national-backorder rear propulsion shaft.







(BTW - I understand that the contraption has four universal-type joints.)


----------



## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (MV_Photon)*

My treg developed the shuddering and loss of power issues around 12,000 miles (14K now). Over a 20 day in-shop period, the dealer said he replaced two fuel pumps, then replaced drive shaft. No change in symptoms. Now car has been in shop for 3 weeks, and they tell me they propose changing the fuel pumps - and admit they didn't actually change them the first time, just the fuel senders. They say that VW deployed an engineer with diagnostic tools to the dealership, and after examining the fuel pressures, believe that this is the root cause. Meanwhile, the car has been in the shop a total of close to 5 weeks. I do not understand why the difficulty in figuring out the problem; the V10 is not a USA prototype - I saw plenty of them last week in Italy.


----------



## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_My treg developed the shuddering and loss of power issues around 12,000 miles (14K now). Over a 20 day in-shop period, the dealer said he replaced two fuel pumps, then replaced drive shaft. No change in symptoms. Now car has been in shop for 3 weeks, and they tell me they propose changing the fuel pumps - and admit they didn't actually change them the first time, just the fuel senders. They say that VW deployed an engineer with diagnostic tools to the dealership, and after examining the fuel pressures, believe that this is the root cause. Meanwhile, the car has been in the shop a total of close to 5 weeks. I do not understand why the difficulty in figuring out the problem; the V10 is not a USA prototype - I saw plenty of them last week in Italy.

jhm83, your problem still sounds allot like mine. The only differences
are that my car had 19,000 miles when the problem started, they haven't blamed the drive shaft (yet), and my TDI has been in the 
shop for about six weeks








p.s., I had the engineer deployed as well. Maybe this is the only
guy in the US who possibly understands this engine. Maybe it takes
so long because he has to continuously travel from state to state
visiting sick V10TDIs. I wonder when spock's will catch the flu.

_Modified by Richard1 at 4:17 AM 4-1-2005_


_Modified by Richard1 at 4:18 AM 4-1-2005_


----------



## beechbum (Oct 4, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Richard1* »_
p.s., I had the engineer deployed as well. Maybe this is the only
guy in the US who possibly understands this engine. Maybe it takes
so long because he has to continuously travel from state to state
visiting sick V10TDIs. I wonder when spock's will catch the flu.

_Modified by Richard1 at 4:17 AM 4-1-2005_

_Modified by Richard1 at 4:18 AM 4-1-2005_

Richard you make me cringe! I hope yours gets better soon.


----------



## cybulman (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

I had conjectured in another thread somewhere, that all these pump and clogged gates/filters, could be due to the bad truck diesel available in the USA....and that truck is really engineered for EU fuel.
Could this be - one of the causes?
Cy


----------



## diesel king (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (cybulman)*

I have long suspected that our fuel is the real reason we are not seeing 2005 V10s.
I hope VW has some sharp tacks working on this!


----------



## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (diesel king)*


_Quote, originally posted by *diesel king* »_I have long suspected that our fuel is the real reason we are not seeing 2005 V10s.
I hope VW has some sharp tacks working on this!

I think you're correct, but I thought it was an emissions issue, not a performance issue.
I'm curious...how many of you that are experiencing this engine performance problem have been routinely using additives like PowerService Diesel Kleen when you re-fuel?
http://www.powerservice.com/dieselkleen_cetane.asp


_Modified by leebo at 1:09 PM 4-1-2005_


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (leebo)*

Never used it once. Never had this problem. Knock on wood trim - gently.


----------



## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Never used it once. Never had this problem. Knock on wood trim - gently.

Yes, but I was wondering about whether those that have had the engine performance problems had used any additives...








I would find it somewhat odd that the V10's fuel system would be more suseptable to problems with USA fuel quality than other TDIs. It's my understanding that the USA fuel quality problem (sulpher content) isn't something that most additives help with anyway. But I was curious...
There is a V10 in the service bay at my dealership (been there a long time) that apparently had something wrong with it's fuel system, too.


----------



## almgti (Apr 2, 2005)

Has anyone tried replacing fuel filters?


----------



## hprotter (Apr 4, 2005)

I have a V-10 TDI with 15,000 miles on it. I decieded to try Arco ultra low diesel and found is seems to almost eliminate lag at low trottle. This fuel is availabe in California at Arco and at some locations east at BP stations. What follows is a decription from the Arco web site...
To meet the strict impending California regulations, ECD-1 has a low sulfur content of less than 15 ppm (parts per million), where as standard California diesel has an average sulfur content of 140 (!) ppm (with a maximum of 500 ppm). ECD-1 results in emission reductions of particulate matter by approximately 10%.


----------



## MV_Photon (Dec 7, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83) - - - NOT ANYMORE!!!*

Was the judder/thump due to the TIRES, after all??? 
Last week, the dealer changed the fuel filters, as per VWoA. The intermittent judder persisted. 
So, a rear drive shaft was put on (back) order. I'm told that the V-6 & V-8 shafts are identical, but that the V-10 shaft is unique. _(The wife's V-8 drive shaft was swapped out due to a grinding noise, a relatively common problem.) _
I'm disappointed that VW shod the 19" Touareg wheels with 275/45YR19 tires, as there are only a handful of brands available in that size. With a mediocre 280 Treadwear Rating, the OEM Continentals looked "old" after 10k miles, and they were down to the wear indicators at 15k miles. Accordingly, I opted to replace the tires with 285/45YR19 Pirelli Scorpion Zero Asimmetrico, with a 420 Treadware Rating. 
Guess what? With those new tires, the ride is now absolutely *smoooooooth*! The judder is completely gone! I suggested to the Service Manager that VW ought to check my OEM tires for a design/manufacture fault. 
BTW -- Does anyone know how to adjust the speedo/odometer for the new tire size with VagCom?







That's apparently an easy task in the Cayenne.


----------



## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83) - - - NOT ANYMORE!!! (MV_Photon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MV_Photon* »_Was the judder/thump due to the TIRES, after all??? 
...
Guess what? With those new tires, the ride is now absolutely *smoooooooth*! The judder is completely gone! I suggested to the Service Manager that VW ought to check my OEM tires for a design/manufacture fault. 
...

is your truck aligned properly? old worn tires kill the ride but in addition to been worn, they are bumpy on a non-aligned suspension. at 10K-15K miles the bumps could be 2-3 mm in hight.


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (spockcat)*

I got my treg back today, the paper work had not been completed,so I have no print to refer to., But I really dont think it`s been properly fixed yet.The SM had a sheef of papers about 50 pages full of mechanics gibberish\,which I looked thru ,but didn`t understand at all. SM says he will mail me the papers .
I drove it about 20 miles to the Lexus store and it was flawless.
Test drove GX & LX 430`s. They do not compare to the treg, No power. missing many of our luxury features. And worst of all no heated steering wheel!!! their gps is without a doubt great also bluetooth neat stuff, but other than that not much happening at Lexus. There is little or no danger of me buying one of their cars.
Drove treg home 20 miles once again perfect performance. I cannot figure out what`s going on with this car!
Have to go out of town again this weekend, I wonder how far I`ll get this time???










_Modified by jack oconnor at 3:19 AM 4-6-2005_


----------



## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Finally fixed*

Picked up the V10 today after 3 weeks in the shop. The shuddering and power loss was caused by a defective fuel pump on the engine, not the pumps mounted in the fuel tank. The service manager said there are two high pressure pumps, one for each 5 cylinder bank, and one side was putting out only about 50% of the specified pressure. Under load, there was insufficient fuel flow to fire all five cylinders, so the engine was not only running under partial power, but it was unbalanced, thus explaining both the loss of power and shuddering. Prior to pinpointing the problem, the driveshaft and the two fuel tank pumps were changed, obviously with no improvement. The car racked up some 500 'test' miles while in the shop, but it was worth it. I took it out on the highway, and it felt like it was on steroids - fast, smooth, unlimited power, king of the road! The only downside, other than loosing the use of the car for 3 weeks, is that it smells like it was drenched in diesel, but assuming no leaks, that will eventually flare off. If marketed correctly the V10 TDI could and should displace the Cayenne Turbo as the ultimate SUV, just as the Phaeton is really a Bentley, only better. As an aside, the RDS info on the radio inexplicably started working on its own, scrolling the name of the song and group, despite the service managers explanation that it is not supposed to work here in the states. I think the circuitry on this vehicle is so advanced and complex that even the engineers and mechanics don't fully understand all the possible fault modes. By model year 2006, this vehicle should be perfected


----------



## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Finally fixed (jhm83)*

Glad you got 'er back in tip-top shape!!!

_Quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_...The only downside...is that it smells like it was drenched in diesel...

It's odd...some people think that diesel or diesel exhaust smells bad. I gotta' say that the real stinker is the "rotten egg" smell of a gasser screaming down the freeway...I hate riding behind one of those.
I love the smell of diesel in the morning...


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Finally fixed (jhm83)*

The reason why the techs took so long to find this problem could be because those two pumps aren't mentioned in the self study course 89P303 about the V10 TDI. They are shown in the parts list (now that you bring them to my attention) but not mentioned in the self study course at all. In fact, the first sentance in the self study course about fuel pumps reads: 
_Both electric fuel pumps are installed in the fuel tank._ 
This makes you think that there are only those two pumps in the fuel system. Of course, those two pumps are not delivering the very high pressure fuel (2,050 bar - 30,000 psi) that the engine requires.


----------



## leebo (Dec 17, 2003)

*Re: Finally fixed (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_The reason why the techs took so long to find this problem could be because those two pumps aren't mentioned in the self study course 89P303 about the V10 TDI. They are shown in the parts list (now that you bring them to my attention) but not mentioned in the self study course at all. In fact, the first sentance in the self study course about fuel pumps reads: 
_Both electric fuel pumps are installed in the fuel tank._ 
This makes you think that there are only those two pumps in the fuel system. Of course, those two pumps are not delivering the very high pressure fuel (2,050 bar - 30,000 psi) that the engine requires. 


I think you're right on the money.
I wasn't clear on your last point. If I understand correctly, none of the fuel pumps (on engine or in the fuel tank) deliver the high fuel pressures needed for the combustion cycle in the TDI. It's the injectors (1 for each cylinder) that provide the pressure needed.
Do the engine-side fuel pumps "step-up" the pressure from the fuel tank-side pumps?


----------



## V10Freddy (Mar 8, 2005)

*Re: Finally fixed (spockcat)*

My V10 was in the workshop for 3 weeks also. Loss of power was contributed to a faulty turbo regulator. Techs first try to read out the fault in the comp but apparently unable to do that. That took one week alone...
Then the axe was used, VW was asked for and granted to exchange the 2 turbos, which meant a complete engine dismount, took 2 weeks to compelte because VW send one turbo to replace instead of 2...
The situation was used to replace several other gates and stuff.
Result massive performance and smoooooooth as silk drive. Got the car back in showroom condition, smeling like new.
Replace car was a 2.5 TDi, sorry for the owners but it was an utter disappointment, driver like a John Deere.
Still problems with the keyless entry...


----------



## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: Finally fixed (leebo)*

My understanding is that the engine mounted fuel pumps do step up the pressure to the injectors; the tank pumps are low pressure siphonjet type pumps that merely maintain a head pressure on the suction side of the engine pumps. I did not get the actual output pressure readings from the engine pumps, but was told that they were about 1/2 of specification.


----------



## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: Finally fixed (jhm83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_Picked up the V10 today after 3 weeks in the shop. 

Glad to see you got yours back. Mine is still in the shop (going on 
6 weeks). I'm sure it must be the same problem. Guess my guys
aren't as smart as yours.
This is looking to be a common problem with the current V10.
I guess we will have to get used to having the car in the shop
for 3-6 weeks every 20k miles


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

We got about 300 miles on it before the stuttering/shuddering returned. 
We learned that if we feather the throttle to get just below or just above the rpm of the problem , that the car is drivable.
We drove it home with intermittant shudder at various rpms, but got home ok.
Tregs back at the dealer. SA is very concerned and on my side, 
Lemon letter is composed and going to PO this Pm. I dont know if it will come to lemoning it ,but a letter of intent is required.To notify VW that they have 15 more days to fix the prob.
I really do hope they fix it ,because my wife and I really like this car,but in case they dont I am prepared to walk away from it. 
What else is out there that compares?? How is the BMW 4.8 ? Who else has a heated steering wheel? My sweety says she`s got to have that.


----------



## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

What was the cause of the original shuddering problem?


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

After more than 3 weeks in the shop, we still dont know the cause. I was told something about waste gates-- I know ,I know , it aint got no stinking waste gates-- then it was blamed on a bad trailer hitch controller. 
I think it`s the high pressue fuel pumps that makes the most sense to me but what do I know I`m just an old wooden leg maker.


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

Tregs been in the shop since monday, and it ran fine every time they took it out for a test. I think they must have thought I was making it up.
Last night the Audi service manager drove it home, 50 miles, it ran well, this am on his way to work it stumbled so badly he didn`t think he was going to make it.
So there it is My wife and I are happy our car ran bad. There`s something crazy about that isn`t there??I`m just happy they were finally able to duplicate the problem.
Now the thinking is a bad turbo, The days are adding up and I`m keeping count.


----------



## jhm83 (May 28, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*

I don't know if you followed my thread, but the power loss and rumbling problem on my V10 was ultimately solved by replacement of a defective high pressure fuel pump on the engine. There are two of these pumps, and if one doesn't supply enough fuel, half of the engine is producing only partial power, resulting in the drive train vibration and limited top speed. The dealer had previously replaced the drive shaft, two fuel tank mounted fuel pumps, mass airflow sensor, and some other parts they didn't detail. Nothing worked until the factory finally figured out it was the engine pump. Now it runs perfectly again.


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*

YES Jamie I followed your thread with great interest. 
I relayed your solution to my SA ,both he and the mechanic listened and are considering that , but they have to deal with tech line too.So the saga continues.


_Modified by jack oconnor at 10:58 PM 4-14-2005_


----------



## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jhm83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_I don't know if you followed my thread, but the power loss and rumbling problem on my V10 was ultimately solved by replacement of a defective high pressure fuel pump on the engine. There are two of these pumps, and if one doesn't supply enough fuel, half of the engine is producing only partial power, resulting in the drive train vibration and limited top speed. The dealer had previously replaced the drive shaft, two fuel tank mounted fuel pumps, mass airflow sensor, and some other parts they didn't detail. Nothing worked until the factory finally figured out it was the engine pump. Now it runs perfectly again.

My service department switched out the high-pressure fuel pumps.
They tell me the car runs great, but don't want to release it to me
as they say they still detect low pressure in the fuel lines and are
worried that it might drive home well, but could be prone to 
unpredictable stalling. I am starting to get frustrated. This Treg
has been at the dealer for nearly two months


----------



## jack oconnor (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*

Richard What do the support group folks say? I feel your pain or something like that. Do we need a support group for our tregs?
What are you driving as a loaner? yesterday I had a jetta ,with no AC today I`ve got a new bug- Which I like a lot.Tomorrow it`s back to enterprise for a rental, Neither the dealer or i want to go out of town in a loaner. No need to rack up too many miles on their nice little loaner.


----------



## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (jack oconnor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jack oconnor* »_Richard What do the support group folks say? I feel your pain or something like that. Do we need a support group for our tregs?
What are you driving as a loaner? yesterday I had a jetta ,with no AC today I`ve got a new bug- Which I like a lot.Tomorrow it`s back to enterprise for a rental, Neither the dealer or i want to go out of town in a loaner. No need to rack up too many miles on their nice little loaner.

What am i driving? They started me out in a Chevy Minivan for two
weeks, then they gave me a V6 touareg for a couple of weeks,
then it was Malibu, and now I am in a quad cab dodge ram 
with a hemi for the last 3 or so weeks. I agree, maybe there
should be a V10TDI support group. I am worried about this 
problem, when they finally do fix it, how will you feel when
your TDI gets these symptoms again in nine months?
May just want to vomit at that point. I wonder if we should
be pressing these guys for refunds on these cars. I am 
becoming convinced that this is some sort of major design 
flaw. Makes me sick thinking about that as I love this car.


----------



## cctdi (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (Richard1)*

Dear Richard, the TDI problems had piled up three pages long, and you still haven't gotten back the V10. I had read most forums posted on your title; I am somewhat scared, even mine runs beautifully so far at near 12k in the odometer. Three months ago, I was trying to replace the V10 with A8 short base. Now, the GM here who was trying to accommodate me just left the dealership for a bank job. I don't know how you came to know my real name and I am glad you do. So please tell me, should I give back my V10 for another car ?


----------



## kangelov (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: TDI Problems (MV_Photon)*

I believe simply replacing the fuel filter would have fixed the problem.


----------



## tutin (Nov 27, 2006)

Wow, 2 years late response









A new world record


----------



## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: TDI Problems (kangelov)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kangelov* »_
I believe simply replacing the fuel filter would have fixed the problem.


This v10 is dead and buried. I know drive a Jetta.
And thanks for brining up bad memories








The problem was a bad fuel pump


----------



## tutin (Nov 27, 2006)

How can a bad fuel pump kill entirely the car ?


----------



## Kippity (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (tutin)*

Well its my turn with my 06 V10. There was a gradual loss of power, starting at about 18000 miles. Now at 21,000 I have the full blown problem-shuddering, lurching, general anemic power. Mine goes into the dealer tomorrow AM. Of course with a printout of this thread. I want to thank everyone who suffered through identifying this problem.


----------



## GONUP2 (Jun 10, 2007)

well if you have a power steering leak make sure they replace the lines aong with the pump too. ous has been in the shop almost a month. they replace just the pump and it still leaked. can't belive that when it take two to three day to pull the motor they wouldn't replace everything related to power steering. but they didn't. they have been good to us with ental car even after showing butt on taking to long. but went over last saturday and saw motor and tran on looks like hospital bed. i won't complain again. thank for warning on next problem. bu really love the car


----------



## depiry (Feb 16, 2005)

Volkswagen > Touareg > 2004-2006
5.0 Liter V10 2V TDI PD Engine Mechanical, Fuel Injection Glow Plug, Engine Code(s): BKW, BWF
20 - Fuel supply system componentsTandem pump and Fuel Pump (FP), checkingNote:
The tandem pump delivers fuel for cylinder bank 1 and Fuel Pump (FP) delivers fuel for cylinder bank 2.
Special tools, testers and auxiliary items required 
Torque wrench (5 to 50 Nm) V.A.G 1331 
Pressure Gauge VAS 5187 with Adapter Set VAS 5187/6 
Not illustrated:
Vehicle Diagnostic, Testing and Information System VAS 5051 A with diagnostic cable 
Adapter Set VAS5187/6 
Requirements
Coolant temperature must be at least 85 ° C. 
Pump-injector units OK
Fuel filter and fuel lines must not be blocked
Work sequence
Vehicles with test connections (engine code BKW)
Connect pressure gauge VAS 5187 to test connection for cylinder bank 1 - 1 - or to test connection for cylinder bank 2 - 2 - . 
Vehicles with test connections (engine code BWF)
Connect test unit for tandem pump VAS 5187 to test connection for cylinder bank 1 - 1 - or to test connection for cylinder bank 2 - 2 - . 
Vehicles without test connections (engine code BKW)
Remove fuel filter Fuel filter (vehicles with engine code BKW), removing and installing . 
Connect test unit for tandem pump VAS 5187 to supply line for cylinder bank 1 - 1 - or to supply line for cylinder bank 2. 
Install fuel filter Fuel filter (vehicles with engine code BKW), removing and installing . 
Continuation for all vehicles
Connect vehicle diagnosis, testing and information system VAS 5051 as follows: 
Open cover - 1 - (if equipped) and connect the connector of the diagnostic cable to the Data Link Connector (DLC). 
Start engine and run at idle speed.
On Vehicle diagnostic, testing, and information system , select operating mode "Vehicle Self Diagnosis" . Then, go into engine control module (ECM) J623 with address word "01 - Engine electronics" . 
Press diagnostic function "08 - Read measuring value blocks" . 
Enter "display group 1" via number keypad and confirm input by pressing Q button. 
Read idle RPM in "display field 1" . 
Increase engine speed to 1500 RPM.
Observe pressure displayed on pressure gauge. Specification: at least 7.5 bar.
Press key twice. 
Press function "06 - End output" . 
If specification is not obtained:
Replace tandem pump or Fuel Pump (FP) Tandem pump and Fuel Pump (FP), removing and installing . 
Note:
After removing pressure gauge for tandem pump , tighten supply line and sealing plug to 27 Nm. 

Sorry No pic's Marty


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (Kippity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kippity* »_Well its my turn with my 06 V10. There was a gradual loss of power, starting at about 18000 miles. Now at 21,000 I have the full blown problem-shuddering, lurching, general anemic power. Mine goes into the dealer tomorrow AM. Of course with a printout of this thread. I want to thank everyone who suffered through identifying this problem. 

Did you have your fuel filter changed at 20,000 miles? Could be that or a bad pump.


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## Richard1 (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: (Kippity)*

Sounds like a fuel supply problem. I agree with Spockat. Most likely cause is a clogged fuel filter, #2 is a fuel pump. If it turns out to be a fuel pump, and your dealer hasn't replaced one on a V10 yet, ask him to contact Tom at Southpoint VW in Baton Rouge, for some pointers, before they install the replacement pump. We learned the hard way.
Good luck.


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## Kippity (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Richard1)*

Luckily mine turned out to be a clogged fuel filter. Cheap and easy to fix. I've got my zoom back --Whoopee.


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## BUTCH RYAN (Nov 25, 2007)

*The loss of power and shuttering is fuel related, more then likely a fuel filter CAUSED BY THE JUNK FUEL AVAILABLE TODAY*



idiot2 said:


> _quote, originally posted by *jhm83* »_ the power loss feels like either inadequate fuel flow, or a speed limiter on one of the chip. I am going to call vw usa tomorrow and get a conversation going with customer service because the dealer either doesn't know, or doesn't want to share.
> 
> i've also wondered how the two can be related. One thing i have noticed is that when power is dropping off, i can't get it to stay in 6th gear. It seems like it gets stuck in 4th and the rpms get too high to make power. I wonder if the drive shaft will help with the shifting issue, otherwise i agree it has to be two problems.


 the loss of power and the shuttering is caused by loss of fuel, normally a fuel filter caused by the bad fuel available today


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## PLO74 (Aug 9, 2006)

BUTCH RYAN said:


> the loss of power and the shuttering is caused by loss of fuel, normally a fuel filter caused by the bad fuel available today


Digging up and quoting a post from March of 2005 must be a new record


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