# Did some trans work today...



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

As the title says I was rather productive today. BFI stage ii insert.... holy trans mount batman! Lol I do like it a lot the only complaint I can make so far is that my rearview mirror vibrates when I accelerate. It calms back down when im cruising. Happy with it though.

The issue arose after i swapped out the trans fluid. I was driving and I noticed a whine coming from my gear box that obviously was not there before. I used the Red Line MTL (70W80 GL-4) and used roughly 2.1 quarts as thats the number I've seen, its probably more than that in there but not significantly. As I filled it through the fill hole I was only able to get in just over half a quart before it started to flow out. So I took out the top sensor and filled it up from there. I added more to try to compensate for the little I lost. Any suggestions or is this whine normal with the red line mtl do I need to add more? Thanks for your input.

The transmission has never shifted this smoothly since I've had the car btw.


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## elitist (Apr 18, 2006)

A whine is never good.
Is this a auto or manual car?

-B


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

elitist said:


> A whine is never good.
> Is this a auto or manual car?
> 
> -B


5spd. And yes I agree. Could it be 2.1L and not 2.1 quarts..?

I hear while accelerating from 1500 rpm then I lose the sound at 3500rpm as it is drained out by my exhaust.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I dont think youre suppose to overfill trans fluid, once it starts comin out the hole you need to plug it up and leave it. That could be why but I dont see why excess fluid would cause a whine in the tranny. Ive actually had this happen to me in my Beetle with the O2J. I cracked the bellhousing somehow and didnt have the money to fix it for real so I JBwelded the crack and just used some off the shelf trans fluid. After that, whenever Id accelerate there would be a whining noise coming from the trans. It would get louder the higher the rpms went but it sounds alot like what your describing.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

If I overfilled it then it would have been no more than 0.2-0.3 quarts. There was the first gen of trans where they put the fill hole too low. But when I removed the fill plug nothing came out so I was a little surprised. But im almost certainly the trans capacity for the 2.5L 5spd is 2.1 quarts. Also there would be no reason why ecstasy would sell the trans guild kit 3 quarts if it took 2 or less then 2

Relatively speaking 1st and 2nd gear sounds the worst followed by 4th gear then 5th gear is really faint. I really can't hear anything in third.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Any chance something got into the trans?


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

DerekH said:


> Any chance something got into the trans?


theoretically of course... but i cleaned all the treads of the drain and fill plug as well as the sensor. Also, if there was something in there, I wouldn't think it would make such a consistent noise at those RPMs...

I got a slip from VW saying the OA4 5spd for the 2.5L takes 2.0qts. I over filled it at most by .2-.4 qts.


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Whining is never good. Was it whining before the fluid change?
If it was, then you rule out the fluid change as a contributor to the noise.
At any rate, whining while accelerating and full fluid usually means a bearing is on its way out.
By no means am I an expert on this, but from experience that could very well be the culprit.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

You technically can't over fill your trans from drain plug. You actually should take your reverse sensor out and fill through that... It's the way the bentley suggests.

Drain from the plug and remove the 2 black alignment bars. They are bolted in the bottom .
Lock the trans in place with the little lever. Then pull those rods and plug. Drain. then lower the car, to level to finish. Then you re install the bars and plug. Remove the reverse sensor, then fill from there.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Whining is never good. Was it whining before the fluid change?
> If it was, then you rule out the fluid change as a contributor to the noise.
> At any rate, whining while accelerating and full fluid usually means a bearing is on its way out.
> By no means am I an expert on this, but from experience that could very well be the culprit.


No there was no noise before the tense fluid change... that's why I have no clue what it could be... 



TylerO28 said:


> You technically can't over fill your trans from drain plug. You actually should take your reverse sensor out and fill through that... It's the way the bentley suggests.
> 
> Drain from the plug and remove the 2 black alignment bars. They are bolted in the bottom .
> Lock the trans in place with the little lever. Then pull those rods and plug. Drain. then lower the car, to level to finish. Then you re install the bars and plug. Remove the reverse sensor, then fill from there.


I filled .5 qts from the fill hole then plugged it. Took out the reverse sensor and put the remaining fluid in that way. I never took the alignment then bars off.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

You should be fine.
Could be throw out bearing...


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

use a vacuum bleeder, $50 at local auto parts store for a good one.

put GM synchromesh in there, not penzoil 
or redline mt90

that gear lube is not good in the 5 speed.



Why are you changing the gear lube? If you do a UOA on the old gear lube, they can tell you if a bearing is going out.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12345349/


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

thygreyt said:


> http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-12345349/


broken link i tink

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: GM synchromesh. Telling you... ohhh ohhhh its magic! :laugh: Just read about the other vw guys running it. There is also really super expensive VW gear lube you can order but it is tripple the cost of Redline MT90 or Synchromesh.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

it works for me...

if not, just search: 12345349 on summit racing


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

tchilds said:


> use a vacuum bleeder, $50 at local auto parts store for a good one.
> 
> put GM synchromesh in there, not penzoil
> or redline mt90
> ...


I sent a sample in today to get tested. 

The vacuum bleeder would attach where? The fill port? Then through in 2 quarts of gm syncromesh. It was getting really notch and after it did it, it felt like new.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

if you dunno how to use the power bleed just use the bently manual way posted above to drain it. i dunno if it is one of those wierd suction things like when I change the primary on my harley but if u follow procedure u will be certain to get all of it out.

i just really like gm synch mesh cuz it always gets rid of gear grinds and doesn't feel chunky in the winter like the thicker redline mt90. synchromesh doesn't work like normal gear lube, its wierd stuff. it is VERY similar to the MTL u have in there now.

You could try:

1) Amsoil Synthetic Manual Transmission Gear Lub, which is 75w-90 API GL-4
2) Redline MT-90, which is 75w-80 GL-4

Some guys swear OEM is best too but i dunno bout them apples.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

i can mail you a jug of amsoil cheap too :laugh: :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Manual recommends filling, driving some time and re cheking...

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

Redline fluid created a whine after I swapped it in the trans (filled properly)... All was fine with the dirty OEM stuff before hand. I could only hear it with the radio off, and it was just a little bit of diff whine, so I never bothered to look into it (All of my Datsuns had diff whine, but that's a whole different story). 

Needless to say, 25k later I drained chunks out of my trans.... I put GM Synchromesh in the replacement transmission and ohhhh boy... Perfect. :beer:


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

TeamZleep said:


> Redline fluid created a whine after I swapped it in the trans (filled properly)... All was fine with the dirty OEM stuff before hand. I could only hear it with the radio off, and it was just a little bit of diff whine, so I never bothered to look into it (All of my Datsuns had diff whine, but that's a whole different story).
> 
> Needless to say, 25k later I drained chunks out of my trans.... I put GM Synchromesh in the replacement transmission and ohhhh boy... Perfect. :beer:


Ya... i hope to not have chunks. I swap it out soon when I get the gm synchromesh. Thanks guys for your help, i'll keep you updated.


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## Rabbit_2.5 (Mar 6, 2009)

I instantly got a whine in 4th after installing my BFI stg 2 mount. I've been running GM syncromesh the whole time for ~20K not a single issue. That mount transfers ALOT of tranny noise to the cabin


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Rabbit_2.5 said:


> I instantly got a whine in 4th after installing my BFI stg 2 mount. I've been running GM syncromesh the whole time for ~20K not a single issue. That mount transfers ALOT of tranny noise to the cabin


Hmmm that is interesting... I think ill drain the MTL and put in the gm syncromesh. Anything special I need to do to drain it? All i'll do is take out the fill and drain plug.

Just to make sure.... ill use 2 quarts of gm syncromesh OR do I fill it to such that it comes out the fill hole? As last time I was only able to get .5 quarts in...

Edit: got some gm syncromesh ill be putting it in tonight and ill update you guys on any changes.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Drain from the plug and remove the 2 black alignment bars. They are bolted in the bottom .
Lock the trans in place with the little lever. Then pull those rods and plug. Drain. then lower the car, to level to finish. Then you re install the bars and plug. Remove the reverse sensor, then fill from there. 

If you don't do it specifically this way there may be one of those wierd suction things that forms inside and doesn't allow the oil to come out. I don't know much about this area of the car yet sry. I just know if I don't do something similar on my Harley that a wierd suction forms and the oil will flush back inside in ways that it can't come out the drain hole.

On the 02m it is super easy. Just pull fill plug, THEN pull drain plug, replace drain plug, fill on level ground until lube pours out the hole... I hope the 5 speed in my 2009 isn't a PITA to service this on... I want to run synchromesh before I get on the dyno to get the best power down.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey so on my 2009 I just put the nappa synchromesh in, same as GM stuff just a nappa part #. Anyway, my tranny only took about 1.5 quarts, which means I need to flush it again and check for swirls in the gear lube. 

I think you overfilled you tranny last time. The drain plug only removed about 1.7 quarts, it took about 1.5 quarts to get it spilling out of fill hole again. It definitely holds about 2qt though. Anywhere from 2.0 to 2.3 from the factory... they typically underfill them though from what I have heard and read.

You said something about a fill hole being lower on yours than mine. Do you have a picture?

Did you buy synchmesh regular or synchmesh MT w/the 5% friction modifier? I have always used the prior...


*I have a whole case of amsoil gear lube out in the garage because of this stuff, if anyone needs amsoil gear lube let me know and i cut u a deal* I run 110W on my harley now instead of the 75-90. its just sitting there! lol


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I dont remember seeing two black alignment bars... and the car was tilted back towards the drain hole so why would leveling the car make any difference or make any more fluid come out? And also for filling? I use ramps to do this... but I could use the jack stands if I need to level it first. The fill hole may be lower I just know I was only able to put in about half a quart then it started to come out. I just bought regular gm syncromesh

Ill look for those two alignment bars tonight and ill post up a pic too.

And just a thought... a drain pan wont fit under my car when I drop it off the jacks...


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

i'm not telling you to do this, but i jack my car up all the time by the one side until i can fit stands under both sides. i don't know why it matters if the car is level either because i don't know how the internals or chambers are shaped but I have seen similar procedures on motorcycles where the primary chamber will not drain properly unless the plugs are pulled in the right order and the chamber(s) are tilted at the correct angle.

obviously my tranny/dif has wierd differences because the fil and drain hole worked the same as it does on my o2m, but w/out the stupid tamper proof bit. just drain and fill worked for me and other guys i read about on mkv forums.

i didn't look for bars either fyi.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/pdf/a5translevel.pdf

That is what I found and I think those bars might be there... i'll follow this tonight and i'll see how it goes. I didn't know fluid came out of the shifter bearing pin... I'll try that too (that is torx bit under the trans shown here with the blue arrow http://www.myturbodiesel.com/images/a5/tran/transdrain.jpg).


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

well i just looked at your links. that looks like the bentley way. darnit i just installed a dieselgeek shifter a week ago and have to take it all apart again. oh well glad to know this way will actually drain it completely.

*be super careful with that home position lock on the tranny!!! it must be reset to the 10 o clock position* Make sure you pull the plugs/pins in the right order too. Sometimes, like I keep saying, these things can matter because wierd suction forms inside that messes up the drain when you start pulling plugs.

i wonder what u are supposed to do for 2007+ models? lol prob same thing. i'm gonna suck it outta that pin hole w/a lil bleeder.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

why are you making this so complicated???

bentley doesnt say anything about setting the tranny on home...

it says to simply: drain, plug, fill, plug.

then turn the car on for 2 mins.

then on a balanced surface, recheck the fluid, and fill if necesary.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

he's got a humming. the tsb about this elaborate method of changing the gear lube involves a similar noise to what he is experiencing.

further more, like i've said... over and over... sometimes, i do not know in this care for sure, there can be weird vacuum suction crap that goes on when you pull the plugs on stuff like this. at times, you have to pull certain things in certain orders to ensure the oil drains out completely, not sloshing back into some reserve where it will not drain unless you tip the car on its side...

further more, his car did not drain properly, nor did mine drain completely. i switched to synchromesh so w/ 1/2qt or so of old gear lube left in there it will probably give me undesired effects such as swirling. will take pics when i drain it to show you what i'm talking about.

this elaborate method of draining and filling as suggested will likely route the oil out and in, in a manner that it fills everything properly and w/proper amounts of fluid.

make sense?


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I just hope to get all of the old stuff out and get as pure as I can with the gm syncromesh... Yes I know this is a bit more complicated then last time i did it by simply taking out the two plugs. I'll be doing this, this afternoon as well as raising my coils as rubbing is taking a toll on my tires.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Hey I found a guy talking about this in another thread, "I got done changing my manual tranny fluid not that long ago and yes there was not a gasket to be found on the transmission drain plug. However, there is an O-ring (19mm ID) needed for the Selector Shaft Journal. I didn't see an O-ring on the Selector Shaft in the event that I removed it since it had stuck to the drain hole and fell down into my drain pan. After I finished re-installing the Drain Plug/Selector Shaft Journal and filled the transmission, I THEN discovered the O-ring in my drain pan as I was dumping my old fluid into a container (GRRRRRRRRRR!!!) So needless to say, I had to re-drain the Selector Shaft section of the tranny and re-fill just to replace that damn O-ring.

DIY Rookie "

u can read the thread here. http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/23237-MKV-Manual-Tranny-Drain-Plug-O-rings


unfortunately it ends early and the tech never answers about why he only fills through the drain/fill hole. he was probably never taught to do it this way because he works flat rate in all likeliness. its interesting to me that people talk about the box like it has two sections to drain almost.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I swapped the fluid out and the gear whine turned into diff whine. I know this because the whine keeps increasing as I shift up through the gears. Its loudest in 2 and 3 but very faint in 5. I will just see how it goes.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

did that uoa come back? that's a shame its whining but you can get a new trans for less than the cost of some gear lube.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Uoa?... anyways it still shifts fine and I know the diff on the 0A4 is weak and dumb so maybe this is just the stage ii mount transmitting noise I couldn't hear earlier.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

yep probably. that synch mesh is cool stuff u will like it. gets good gas mileage cuz it is some kinda vodoo that allows the weight to change or something. i don't understand how it works but its dif than other gear oil.

did u replace grommet on the pin? i was wondering if need to get new one.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

You don't need to replace the gromet pin but they do suggest replacing the o-ring when u remove it but mine staying up in there so I left it.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i bought this today


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Are you guys draining with the trans warm? It'll flow a LOT MORE! trans fluid is stupid thick. If you go warm it up, it'll be easier.

The alignment bars need to be drained too, take one out, drain put back.then the other drain, put back. They dont have o rings from what I remember. But its very easy once you start going. You'll see when you're nearly bone dry in there. lock the trans in home position, lift car with jack stands at 4 corners. Pull plug, and bars. Let her drain. Go up top and pour in reverse sensor switch. You'll not need to worry about fluid pouring out the drain plug level. You need to pour in what you took out (2.1l)


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

TylerO28 said:


> Are you guys draining with the trans warm? It'll flow a LOT MORE! trans fluid is stupid thick. If you go warm it up, it'll be easier.
> 
> The alignment bars need to be drained too, take one out, drain put back.then the other drain, put back. They dont have o rings from what I remember. But its very easy once you start going. You'll see when you're nearly bone dry in there. lock the trans in home position, lift car with jack stands at 4 corners. Pull plug, and bars. Let her drain. Go up top and pour in reverse sensor switch. You'll not need to worry about fluid pouring out the drain plug level. You need to pour in what you took out (2.1l)


 2.1qt?


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Lol yeah my bad...2.1qt


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I have a slip from VW dealer saying 2.0 quarts for the 0A4. And yes the alignment bars DO have o-rings. Mine were stuck up in the trans still and not on the bars.

And yes drain it warm drive for atleast 15 min. A 30 min trip will ensure warm trans fluid


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

lol then it is 2.1L i guess then, since 2.0 qt is ~ 2.1L right? LOL we're hopeless. ty for the info guys, can't wait to do this right. never done it any other way than drain and fill via the holes or a bleeder.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

A quart is less then a liter... so its 1.9l lol
Refer to image above


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm staring at what both of us just said and still not sure what we're saying.  You are correct though LOL.

I hate being american sometimes. Maybe I should just stick to counting bottles. TWO bottles. 


Thygreyt, 

How did the vodoo lube work in the ol o2q?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

I'm spending the weekend at my moms.. i dont hsve my tools with me... I'll do the fkush next week

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

All good all good. I have to do full detail on my bro's car today and haven't had time to drain my 5 speed properly yet either. F those alignment bars! I swear if I lose/chip an o-ring I'm going to cry.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

man this thread is making me nervous about my o2j-b I swapped in. Diff is definitely noisy but I assumed it was just cuz it was a quaife and had an assload more moving parts. Think I'm gonna switch to the syncromesh. At least I can write off improper draining at the moment since the trans was dry off a rebuild for shipping


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

tchilds said:


> All good all good. I have to do full detail on my bro's car today and haven't had time to drain my 5 speed properly yet either. F those alignment bars! I swear if I lose/chip an o-ring I'm going to cry.




I wouldn't worry about the alignment bars... if you are grab a coffee filter and use that. Mine stated up just fine.

It could be the quiafe. How hard was the install? The gm synchromesh seems better than the red line!


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

yeh if i was running a LSD i would stick to whatever gear lube they tell ya to run. i don't know what type of "gears" those things have but certain shapes/types of gears are not good w/synchmesh. sorry can't remember what the stupid shape is called but check with them to make sure its okay first! :thumbup:

synchmesh can be hard on certain types of seals and metals too. fyi.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I think I'd stick to gl4 amsoil with the lsd. Synchmesh is good for keeping gears in good shape, but it's also got a buffer and that could keep things from grabbing


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

motul, amsoil, redline, royal purple, lucas... there are a million good GL-4 to run. let us know if synchromesh is okay in the quiafe :thumbup:


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