# "Hill Decent" Brakeshop Warning Fault??



## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*"Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault??*

I jumped in the Treg the other night after a dinner party, pushed my keyless start button and my MFI lit up like a Christmas tree. I had a yellow Treg decending a hill with the words Hill Descent Brakeshop Warning. Also, over on the speedometer dial, the yellow warning triangle as if the ESC was turned off was lit along with another warning symbol. I thought to myself, holy @#$% Batman... this is the big one! I turned the Treg off, and restarted. Just like that, all the warnings were gone. Any thoughts?










_Modified by noc at 2:27 AM 11-8-2004_


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

No one has a thought on this?


_Modified by noc at 2:27 AM 11-8-2004_


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

I think it is fairly disturbing that there is yet another possible error I haven't seen yet.


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## socaltouareg (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

Hello,
I had this exact problem. My dealer fixed it. They replaced the rear locking differential lock motor
The dealer was mckenna vw in huntington beach, ca


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (socaltouareg)*

thanks socal. anyone else have this????


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## staylor (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

yes i posted same problem under ABS Failure last week. Car in shop today for second time to see if they can diagnos.


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (socaltouareg)*

Actually, I have reported this three or four times. I was beginning to think I was the only one. I have been in for this repair three times in the past, and today, actually. Last time, VW said that the problem could be caused by a faulty ignition switch, and they replaced it, and the problem reappeared the next day (as I thought it would). VW suggested giggling the keys when it was acting up, but that never did anything. Mine has been happening about 40% of the time I start the car, and seemed to have nothing to do with being on a hill, as they first thought.
I have confirmed that when these three warnings occur, I indeed do not have ABS, which is a drag.
I will call me service adviser right now and suggest the rear locking differential (which my Treg has).
Thanks.


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Just had this warning appear while on a short trip to the store... both while starting up when leaving and when returning.







Will be taking it in next week along with some of the pointers from this thread. I'll let you know what I find out...


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

I'd love to see the fault code that triggers this warning. Any of you guys who've had this live near a VAG-COM owner?
Hill descent assist (mostly ABS-contolled actuation of the brakes) kicks in when the car goes down a 20% or more slope, going less than 12mph, and when ESP is active.


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (sciencegeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciencegeek* »_I'd love to see the fault code that triggers this warning. Any of you guys who've had this live near a VAG-COM owner?

Well, seeing as how I have one sitting beside me...


_Modified by CBurkard at 12:32 AM 11-28-2004_


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

Alas, the spirit is willing but the laptop batteries are weak. I'm recharging it now and will pull codes tomorrow.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

staying tuned.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

Can you also post the full code listing into my 'VAG-COM codes' thread?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1481978


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (aircooled)*

But please post it here as well. Mine had the fault warning again yesterday. So that's twice now. But spaced almost a month apart.


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

I am going back in for service on this tomorrow. 
My SA has told me that they don't see any error codes on this issue.
So far, they have replaced the Ignition Starter Switch #3DO-905-865-F-01C, which did nothing, and on a subsequent visit, they could not duplicate the problem. Now it is occuring on almost every trip.
I would love to have more info about any VAG codes. My SA at Donaldson's VW in Sayville, NY actually welcomes info from the Vortex.


_Modified by archrenov8 at 8:38 AM 11-28-2004_


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Alrighty! Got up early this morning just to pull the codes (was dying of curiosity). And the winners are...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes
Controller: 7L0 907 379 D
Component: ESP ALLRAD MK25 0108
Coding: 0022785
Shop #: WSC 31414
1 Fault Found:
02054 - Control Module for Differential Locks (J647)
013 - Check DTC Memory
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth.
Controller: 3D0 909 135 M
Component: Kessy 6400
Coding: 0131304
Shop #: WSC 31414
1 Fault Found:
00166 - Access/Start Authorization Switch
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now I've installed the trim and pushbutton part of the keyless start kit but ran out of time to connect it to the keyless module. Wonder what the dealership is going to say... grrr.


_Modified by CBurkard at 9:02 AM 11-28-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

Did you do the keyless start mod? I believe that is what the second error code is from.


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

Wow, thanks- hopefully that will help. I will re-post when I get my Treg back.


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (spockcat)*

No, only got the trim kit in and got paged into work. I dropped the module down, noticed where my dealership did the keyless range fix and put it back up.
There was not much slack in the line at all, barely enough to get the module clear of the dash. I think I'm going to hold off on hooking it up for a while. Can't get the local dealership to do it and no car stereo place will touch it since it's not what they sell.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CBurkard* »_No, only got the trim kit in and got paged into work. I dropped the module down, noticed where my dealership did the keyless range fix and put it back up.
There was not much slack in the line at all, barely enough to get the module clear of the dash. I think I'm going to hold off on hooking it up for a while. Can't get the local dealership to do it and no car stereo place will touch it since it's not what they sell.

So the dealership caused the code and didn't bother to check for it or reset it after they did the modification.


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (spockcat)*

It's been a few weeks since they did the fix... which hasn't helped the range much, if any. Think something was lose when they reassembled it and I broke it when I took the module down?
If it is just a lose wire maybe I can talk the tech into hooking up the keyless kit while he's tightening the ignition key connections.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

To do the remote antenna extension, they have to unplug the module. That causes the code. I doubt you have a loose wire.


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (spockcat)*

For we "lay" folk, can someone explain the fault codes? I understand the second one as being from the remote fix, which I did have done on my last trip in. But what does the first one mean? What can I tell the dealer is "wrong" and hence the reason for the brake shop warning?


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

Was told my by service manager that the error is a result of a low battery. 
The electrical load management program will shut off systems it considers non-essential (I would think ABS would be essential) to ensure the vehicle can start. I'm going to drop by the dealership Wednesday and have them check the DTC memory and battery. I'll let you know what they find out.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CBurkard* »_Was told my by service manager that the error is a result of a low battery. 
The electrical load management program will shut off systems it considers non-essential (I would think ABS would be essential) to ensure the vehicle can start. I'm going to drop by the dealership Wednesday and have them check the DTC memory and battery. I'll let you know what they find out.

That's complete crap. You'd get this fault code if the load management had intervened:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect.
Controller: 7L6 937 049 K
Component: 2703
Coding: 0105692
Shop #: WSC 31414
1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management
000 - -


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

Agree, complete BS. I've had the fault twice and my voltmeter has never wavered off 14V, ever.


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## CBurkard (May 31, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (sciencegeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciencegeek* »_
That's complete crap. You'd get this fault code if the load management had intervened...

Actually, it did. I'm not sure if it was related to the brakeshop failure or if it happened before. My service advisor said that the battery was in fact running low. They charged it, cleared the codes and said they'd check things again during my 20k maintenance.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (CBurkard)*

_post all fault codes if you want cogent feedback_


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Well, I took it in for service on Monday, and naturally, I could not bring up the "Workshop" warning in the MFI (it had been coming up two or three times a day previously). I even tried restarting it about thirty times on my way to the dealer- no faults.
So naturally they couldn't get it to fault either. But they pressed with VW Tech Line, telling them they could not find any fault codes. They were told to do an electrically guided fault finder. With that, they pulled up a code that pointed to the rear differential motor they had just replaced about three weeks ago. MY SA protested, saying they had just replaced it, but Tech Line said replace it again- it is the only problem that fault points to.
The write-up went like this:
0150999 Guided Faulty Finding Diagnostic procedure
01320025 Technical Diagnosis
39789999 Tested Pin Assessment on Differential Lock Position Sensor as per Tech Line
39781900 Remove and Install Differential Control Motor
1 OAD-341-601-A Motor
01210004 Road Test
Naturally, they said they couldn't get it to fault after that.
So I pick it up yesterday (Thursday) morning, and on the way back to my office, I make several stops, and sure enough, I get the "Workshop" message again. So I call my SA, and he was totally miffed, but when I suggest coming right back with the message still reading in the MFI, so they could read the fault while it is present and running, he agrees. 
So he held my brand new 2005 Passat GLS loaner for me (I started with it on Monday, with only 120 miles on the OD)
The saga continues.


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Look at it this way, at least you have a brand new Passat loner!


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (aircooled)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aircooled* »_Look at it this way, at least you have a brand new Passat loner!

Do you think that the Touareg is just another way to get people to try Passats to convince them to buy them?


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## staylor (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Differential lock replacement fixed problem for me. The dealers write up went like this
"Customer reports ABS light has come back on/see previous check fault with 5052 02412 diff lock rear fault gff said to check polarity at motor using wiring diagram, polarity fine.
Replaced diff lock motor."
Problem fixed and i don't think that they ever got any error codes that indicated diff lock motor needed replacing.


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (spockcat)*

I gotta tell you, the Passat GLS is pretty nice. If it was a W8 4Motion wagon, if that even exists, I might just keep it.
My SA just called me to let me know that Tech Line told them to replace the Differential Motor Controller (I think I am getting that right), and he offered that they could keep it for the weekend, and check it a couple of times, or I could come pick it up this afternoon.
I suggested that he take it home and use it for the weekend, and let me know Monday morning. He is doing that.


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## staylor (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

parts replaced on mine were:
OAB-341-601 MOTOR R
OAB-501-649 SEAL R
7LO-825-263 CLAMP R


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Well, it turns out they got the warning again when they moved it to the parking lot Friday afternoon, so the shop foreman took it home for the weekend, and in three out of six local trips, it faulted. So this morning, when he drove to the dealership, it faulted again, and they checked and got the same codes. So now they are contacting Tech Line for next advice.
I am wishing my 05 Passat loaner was a 4Xmotion wagon, because otherwise, it is great.


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Seems pretty certain now - and my dealer agrees - that the Hill Descent Brakeshop Warning = bad stepper motor. Have him check the fault codes against their data base. Also, have a look at my recent thread for more possible confirmation: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1719113 
p.s. I'm making an assumption here that rear diff lock motor is the same as the stepper motor. would that be correct?


_Modified by noc at 5:04 AM 12-7-2004_


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

noc,
Thanks. I will fax this to him this morning. When are they going to replace your stepper motor?
And when we have the rear differential lock, do we have two stepper motors, and if so, does either one cause the fault?
One more question- is there another name for the stepper motors?


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## staylor (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Archrenov8, did you see post above? On mine and others with same problem, i don't believe they replaced the control module, but rather the rear diff. lock MOTOR, part #oab-341-601. good luck.


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## Mikee55 (Dec 8, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (staylor)*

Hi, I've been lurking on this forum for awhile. I finally registered after seeing this thread because I'm having the same problem and the onboard diagnostics doesn't detect/report this fault. Please let the board knpow if replacing the diff lock stepper motor fixes this problem so I can print this thread out and take it to my dealer. Bought my Treg last August, 9200 miles so far and this is the only problem I've had with it. Offroad Grey/Teak, Premium package, locking rear diff.


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (Mikee55)*

Do you have the binding/scrubbing problem?


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (Mikee55)*

Well, I am wondering if everyone that is having the Brake Assist Workshop problem is also having the rubbing/binding, and also have the locking rear differential.


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## Mikee55 (Dec 8, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

I haven't experienced the binding/scrubbing problem. At least it isn't something that is obvious. I think most all-wheel drive systems have this trait to some extent due to the inherent nature of the system. I don't have any scientific facts to back that statement up. It is simply based on my experience driving all-wheel drive vehicles.


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## Martin H (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (Mikee55)*

I've also had the brake assist workshop error show up on my MFI about 3-5 times week for the last month. I also have the locking rear diff.
I dropped my Treg off at the dealer today for my 5k service (about $100 with a tire rotation) and told him about the error. He appeared to know what the problem was and indicated he already experienced this situation once already. I told him what I learned on this thread and he appeared to agree with the fix.
Also had a gas cap warning in the MFI a number of times. (SM never saw this one and I don't recall ever seeing a thread on it) The MFI shows a picture of the treg head on with a buldge on the side where the cap is located.


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (Martin H)*

In my ML 320, I had a gas cap message, which turned out to be a warning that the gas cap was not on tight enough. My SA told me to tighten it, and th e warning light would go off within so many miles. He was right.


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## staylor (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (Mikee55)*

part nos. are posted above. Problem fixed. No more MFI warnings, no ABS warnings. All still good after 3 weeks. I also am not aware of any rubbing/scrubbing noise either.


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (staylor)*

I am happy for you. In my case, they have replaced my rear stepper motor twice, to no avail. I don't know if I still have a binding scrubbing problem. I spoke to my SA today, and they are waiting for Tech Line's next suggestion on the Brakeshop Warning fault.


_Modified by archrenov8 at 3:22 PM 12-8-2004_


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Actually, as it turns out, they had replaced the center differential stepper motor twice, to no avail. So this last time when I brought it back to VW with the Brakeshop Warning fault the same morning I had picked it up (after the second center stepper motor replacement), they were totally frustrated. VW Tech line told them to also replace the rear stepper motor. I had them keep it for the weekend, to make sure that it was really fixed, and it went the whole weekend without faults.

So, at least for me, maybe, it was the rear stepper motor all along, and not the center, or maybe it was both. I guess the fault codes/diagnosis do not distinguish between stepper motors for this warning.


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*The Saga Continues*

So, today was my long awaited appointment with the "regional VW tech rep" coming to my local dealer. He was to diagnose my problem with scrubbing/binding and the hill descent brakeshop fault warning. I asked the service writer to call me when the tech rep got there so I could come over and speak with him directly. Did they? Of course not. He came, looked at my TREG and "authorized" that they replace my stepper motor. Which one I don't know. Anyway, I printed out like 300 pages of posts on this topic making it pretty clear that both the motor AND the TCCM had to be replaced. Would Mr. Tech agree to replace the TCCM? Of course not. This in spite of the fact that everyone else knows that's the only way to fix the problem (replacing both). This whole process is just maddening. Not to sound like a snob or anything, but I have owned a Mercedes, a BMW and a Jaguar in the past. If there ever was a problem, they just fixed it. No waiting for "permission" from the manufacturer to replace a part under warranty because the dealer is afraid they won't get reimbursed. I saw a post on here somewhere the other night where someone's horn didn't work. The dealer wouldn't order the horn part until they could "diagnose the problem." After a day in the shop, the slip said "horn not working, ordering horn." Next visit, "replaced horn." I mean, WTF? I could pick at the dealers for not just doing what needs to be done, but in many respects, I have to blame VW themselves. If they would simply tell the dealers, "look, we're selling $50-70K cars now. Just do what you have to do to fix/satisfy the customer. Whatever solution you undertake we will back you up." But that obviously is not how VW operates. It's a shame. They just don't seem to get it. 
Anyway, so my car is supposed to be "fixed" tomorrow with a new stepper motor. Of course, I and everyone reading this knows it won't be. So the next try will be the magic #3. I think I'm going to have my lawyer send the 'ole three strikes and yur out lemon law letter to VW. Maybe it will get their attention, who knows. I really love driving this car, but I'm starting to get fed up. Sorry for the rant, happy holidays everyone


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: The Saga Continues (noc)*

And what is the TCCM? I don't think it has been replaced in mine.


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: The Saga Continues (archrenov8)*

Sorry, I made up my own acronym! TCCM = Transfer Case Control Module


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## archrenov8 (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: The Saga Continues (noc)*

Thanks. On mine, they replaced the ignition starter switch on the first visit, the front stepper motor (twice) on the second and third visits, and the rear stepper motor and the "Differential Locking Control Unit" part #1 OAC-927-771-B Control Unit. Is that last part what you are referring to as the TMMC?


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: The Saga Continues (archrenov8)*

Probably. All I know is there is some kind of control module that tells the stepper motor what to do and that if its not replaced, the problem doesn't go away.


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Update!*

Well, after 2 days in the shop and the visit from the regional tech rep, the dang stepper motor never came in! So I picked it up today with nothing done at all. Complete waste of time. So the part may or may not come in on Monday, I'll bring it in again. They'll replace the rear stepper, the hill descent warning will go away and I'll still have the scrubbing.


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: Update! (noc)*

Now informed Stepper Motor is on back order. Anyone else finding an out of stock situation?


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## noc (Feb 15, 2004)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (archrenov8)*

Here's an update. At long last the stepper motor came in. They replaced the "rear" one in an attempt to fix the warning AND eliminate the scrubbing/binding. They refused to replace the TCM and the center diff locking motor. So... it appears the fault warning MAY be resolved, but only time will tell as it was intermittent. As for the scrubbing/binding, it was back within 48 hours and just as bad if not worse. Since this was attempt #3, I decided to send the certified letter to VWoA giving them one last chance to fix it or I'm making my claim for a refund under the NJ Lemon Law. The "last warning" letter is required. I'd hate to have it bought back, I love the big TREG. But, I just don't have the time to keep going back again and again and again. If the nitwits would just follow the experience of those on vortex and replace the TCM and center motor perhaps it might get fixed. But, the regional tech rep wouldn't do it. So, to save a few hundred $ on parts, now they're faced with writing a check for $50K. How stupid is this company? Don't answer that, I already know...


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## aircooled (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: "Hill Descent" Brakeshop Warning Fault?? (noc)*

Sorry to hear it, but you are doing the right thing. VW just can't figure it out.


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