# VW labor flatrates?



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Heyas, I was wondering where I could get a list of flatrates for VW labor, like what they use to quote people on repairs. I think it would be good reference for selling someone a competitive priced job, without overcharging or being cut low. By offering to do it at 30%-50%, I think I can pull in a lot of business and make a decent profit. Otherwise I guess I'll just play it by ear...and guesstimate flatrate labor costs.
Anyone got any ideas?


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## scooterman (Dec 30, 1999)

*Re: VW labor flatrates? (sabatosh)*

$350/hr. Start high, then tell them you'll do it for less - make them feel like they're geting a deal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Scott


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## ratdub (Jan 17, 2005)

*Re: VW labor flatrates? (scooterman)*

paging 90_gli...


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

hehehe...well $350/hr doesn't sound very competitive. I'm not trying to make a lot of money and rip people off, I just wanna be fair since labor rates are already a ripoff at the dealer, but with all that overhead they are understandable.


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## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_hehehe...well $350/hr doesn't sound very competitive. *I'm not trying to make a lot of money and rip people off*, I just wanna be fair since labor rates are already a ripoff at the dealer, but with all that overhead they are understandable.


I think its funny how you say that, especially after you tried to sell your old beat up Passat for $10k. The dealer is expenxsive but they actually know what they are doing when they fix a car.


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## OSD#3 (Sep 16, 2005)

*Re: (JettaMatt)*

Anyone who allows you to touch their car should be paid by you.


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## focus43 (Sep 18, 2004)

*Re: (JettaMatt)*

i will let you pay me $1500 to fix my car, becuase you will **** it up and i can buy a new one.. who would trust you working on their car.. i didnt know people that stupid existed


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (focus43)*

tell me again where reverse is


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## focus43 (Sep 18, 2004)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*

i will pay you a quarter to wash my windows.. just dont look at me..


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## bakerdub (May 17, 2005)

*Re: VW labor flatrates? (sabatosh)*

i've got my flame suit on.
but at my local honda dealership http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif i believe the flat rate is eighty dollars an hour.
but then agian, they've ****ed up repairs that i myself could have done on my car twice.
lesson learned.


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

349.99


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

Where is the mk2 content? I wouldn't dare let you touch my car.


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## RVa16v (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: (knappy)*

I think hes lookin for warranty repair times as per VESIS....but what good would it to him??? Im sure that a 1.5 hour brake job would take him a couple of days...and Im sure the quality of his work is superior to that of any of us techs


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## chrometsuba (May 15, 2005)

well, i just paid 60 for a timing belt change, and 90 for a water pump change... 
then again i also paid 140 for a rad hose change this month... damn emergency repairs when i dont have time to do it myself..


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

You know, I don't always believe in 'you get what you pay for', but daaaaayyuuummmm. Don't forget to figure in the cost of labor for the customer to take it to a proper shop after you're done with the machine. 
You want flat labor rates? Here's a hint: call around locally and guess what? You'll get estimates!
I'm sorry, but if you say you've worked at a dealership before but can't even figure this out, then you're just not cut out to do anything whatsoever with business. 90% of a good tech's knowledge base is research research research. I'd say learn that, but you've been so damn thickheaded with every single conversation you've started.
5 Bucks says that you're going to argue with anyone who's attempting to give you a clue here. Anyone in on this? Honestly, why did you even bother to ask such a question when you know that you're going to have just another thread inundated with you asking for help, people giving you answers, and you deciding to get high and mighty with them.
Really, I'm so pissed off to read that you're still posting crap that I'm actually going to go do my LAUNDRY. SERIOUSLY. Gah!


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jazzbass240* »_You know, I don't always believe in 'you get what you pay for', but daaaaayyuuummmm. Don't forget to figure in the cost of labor for the customer to take it to a proper shop after you're done with the machine. 
You want flat labor rates? Here's a hint: call around locally and guess what? You'll get estimates!
I'm sorry, but if you say you've worked at a dealership before but can't even figure this out, then you're just not cut out to do anything whatsoever with business. 90% of a good tech's knowledge base is research research research. I'd say learn that, but you've been so damn thickheaded with every single conversation you've started.
5 Bucks says that you're going to argue with anyone who's attempting to give you a clue here. Anyone in on this? Honestly, why did you even bother to ask such a question when you know that you're going to have just another thread inundated with you asking for help, people giving you answers, and you deciding to get high and mighty with them.
Really, I'm so pissed off to read that you're still posting crap that I'm actually going to go do my LAUNDRY. SERIOUSLY. Gah! 

damn dude, you want a hug?


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ I'm not trying to make a lot of money and rip people off


You're the phucktard that said you were going to make 12,000 in a month. Let's not forget the passat made of gold, the speaker from hell that you have, your overpriced CD of gerbils mating, or the "donations" to your cult like church. I really can't believe you're still posting here on this site. Didn't satan already tell you that we're all BAD people? Ohhh, I know. You're just trying to save us all from eternal damnation......
LET US BURN AND GO AWAY!!!


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCal_GLI* »_damn dude, you want a hug?









Yes. That's why I'm hugging a blonde hooker right now... well, ok, a Hooker Blonde








It's been a long day, and I just stepped barefoot in a rug soaked with laundry detergent. This guy's off his rock's and I've got enough in me where the 'over the counter' persona that I generally use as my pleasant demeanor is effectively squashed







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . Really, a LOT of people die on the road every year because of incompetent technicians, and this guy's not even willing to act professionally when he's criticized. I'll admit, we all go through the arrogant phase, but WAY before we decide to open a business and jeopardize other's well being!
I'm not sorry: if you're too incompetent to handle the basic semantics of business and public relations, then you deserve to fail. But DON'T do it putting yourself in the position to be manipulating people's safety.
Ok, I think I'm done. Maybe? 
I'll take that hug now.


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCal_GLI* »_


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jetta* »_









Hahahahahahahhahahhahahhahahahhahaha
GREEN MEANIE SCORES AGAIN!!!!


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jazzbass240* »_
Hahahahahahahhahahhahahhahahahhahaha
GREEN MEANIE SCORES AGAIN!!!!

















The green meanie gets his though.....


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*

This thread


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## SteveMKIIDub (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_hehehe...well $350/hr doesn't sound very competitive. I'm not trying to make a lot of money and rip people off, I just wanna be fair since labor rates are already a ripoff at the dealer, but with all that overhead they are understandable.



I'll tell you this. The shop I take my car to charges me a fair rate. They charge me fair for parts. They fix my car PROPERLY everytime, and they treat me really good. I'll never go elsewhere, and as far as I can tell, neither will the hundreds of other customers that shop has now will either..
If you can do that, I think any shop will do JUST fine.. as long as you know basic business and can keep your costs down..


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*









I win


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*

Where are the mods?


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*

You and the whipped smileys..


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*









PaGe 3 Owned


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (knappy)*


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

I'll answer your question, you work in a shop for years and you get to know because the shop Foreman tells you have long you get. You're supposed to know what you're doing if you give a price otherwise you got no chance.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

hehehe well I'm just refering to the flatrates that VW actually sets. All dealerships have a common set of rates they have to go by and charge for each job. That is how they know what is an accurate and fair quote to give. Like if you ever worked in a shop you know a job pays .5 hours, or 2.5, or 8 depending on the type of job.
But nevermind i just wanted them for reference, but it doesn't really matter. I have my yellowpages ads all setup and now I am just settling on which commercial shop I am going to rent out. Because there's a limited number of properites that are acutally zoned for this type of business, most garages are residential.
Just my luck there is one down the street, that I am eyeing up, along with a few other hotspots in the whole mass of area. Doesn't have to be on a main road, cause I really have a nitche here served. But I wish I could build my own place..or buy something big, but that's a bit overboard I think for a new business.
I'm sure I will get dozens of calls a day though for work. But until I find suitable shop I can't take a lot of business, or the neighbors may complain and I'll get in trouble with the zoning board.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Keep dreaming there buddy. You might want to check out insurance that you are going to have to carry.


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_hehehe well I'm just refering to the flatrates that VW actually sets. All dealerships have a common set of rates they have to go by and charge for each job. That is how they know what is an accurate and fair quote to give. Like if you ever worked in a shop you know a job pays .5 hours, or 2.5, or 8 depending on the type of job. 

That's what i just told you, if you ever worked in a shop you'll know the times from doing the work, how do you think the bonus system works.
If you must know there are books published with all the labor times for all different makes just for independent shops, they have them for bodywork too, but then you know all that being as you are an expert in your field.
And BTW it's no good just buying the book, you need to know how to use it and for that you need to know whats involved in the job, if you just read the book you'll be quoting 30 mins for clutch jobs, at least you be competitive.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well I generally quote what I think it's worth to me, to do it, on an experienced estimate. Then I try to cut them a break if it's too much, but generally my overall quotes are good enuff I can still be very competitive.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Well I generally quote what I think it's worth to me, to do it, on *an experienced estimate*. Then I try to cut them a break if it's too much, but generally my overall quotes are good enuff I can still be very competitive.


Uh huh.........keep dreaming there slapnuts.


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

It's not just the quotes, your customers will be booking in the work and you'll have to plan your day and know that the clutch job will be done by lunch because the next job is booked in the afternoon, the next thing you know you're booking in work months ahead and you just get further behind. Plan it wrong and you can say goodbye to your customers or find yourself sitting about scratching your ass loosing money by the hr. And you wont get much work done anyway because all the customers will take up all your time talking to you, that's when you're not trying to get the parts.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

You definitely will not have time to ask the vortex gurus where reverse is.


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

That'll be the first labor time he looks up, how long can he charge for selecting reverse.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubs* »_That'll be the first labor time he looks up, how long can he charge for selecting reverse.

AHHHAHHAHAHA....
I love these posts.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well guys I've found a building to work out of...but with the overhead of insurance and rent, utilities, and the strain of building business for a new shop, I have decided to wait on leasing it.
I'm gonna do strictly oncall service, just like someone who fixes appliances or your plumber. I can do most repairs without a hoist or lift, so it's not gonna matter much. Plus I won't be as busy during the colder months anyhow, so most of the time the weather will be decent enuff to work outdoors or in a customers garage.
Then with enuff demand in this area, I could vouch for paying for insurance and opening a physical shop. But I don't wanna get too tied up here, cause I am gonna test the waters of marketing in NJ as well. 
So this can be the new thing, if people don't go for it, screw them, let them pay $150 an hour for mediocre service.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_
So this can be the new thing, if people don't go for it, screw them, let them pay *$150 an hour *for mediocre service.


WWHHOOOAAAA....Where are getting quotes from?

I am glad to see you checked into insurance, I wasn't kidding about the price of it for an automotive shop. It's not cheap by any means.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well there's only one place to go for german cars in this area the dealer. The service sucks...and then there is another place where the guy mainly just knows old beetles but tries to work half assed on newer VW's. I'm telling you I'll do better off with on call service, customer can wait in their cozy home while the work is done.
Instead of reading magazines at a car dealer








I think it will work out good, if not the business demand wasn't there in the first place to support any commercial shop very well.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

The problem with that is it isn't as professional as a real shop setting. What happens if you brake a bolt and need a torch? Do you think a customer is going to want you to use a torch in their house? It's not a good idea for that type of work. Road calls are fine, travelling oil changes are fine. Anything else is a bad idea. And you are still going to need insurance for that man. If you brake something or damage a person's house, you are screwed. It's not a good idea at all.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

If you break something, you fix it...there's nothing on these cars that is so expensive to fix or replace unless you smash the thing. Most expensive parts are the drivetrain, and any shop can break your car, and dodge responsibility, even if they are insured. You still have to sue them, and if you can't get a hold of them, what do you do? Plus they will try to talk their way out of it anyhow. But if you are not driving the car, when the owner is not with you, then there's not much risk anyhow.
I never have to use torches...I've never broken a bolt either. But if in the event something out of the ordinary would happen. I would have the car towed to the nearest shop for assistance.
What is a bad idea is to build so much overhead for yourself and entrapment that you have to work constantly and can't be competitive, for a market that is fluxuating.
The alternative is to dump thousands of dollars into an area that may not be so grateful for the service anyhow. That's too entrapping for me...
I know a guy who makes a living doing just this, except he doesn't even advertise his services, he is just passed along by word of mouth.
You don't have to be so professional if you can do affordable work for people. They can give you a try to see what the quality of work is. If they have been disappointed with the service of very professional outfits, then maybe your services would be ideal.
I simply put myself in the customers position. I figure if the person knows enuff about the vehicles and has experience, offers a competitive price on parts and labor, then I am going to try them at some risk like with any new shop to save money. There's not much I would need a shop for, I can do just about any repair on the street or in the driveway of someone's house.
I mean pneumatic tools are nice for speed, but there's not much application for them as being a nessecity. A lift is really only conveniece, I can do just about everything without one. A professional shop would allow for a higher volume turn around, with a lot more liability, overhead, entrapment, and responsibility. You really can't have it all, and it balances out....
When something breaks on someones car and they don't wanna throw a lot of money at the dealer, they examine alternatives. If the alternative is competitive and experienced, produces quality work then there's no problems. What I would ultimately run into is a lot of problems maintaining business if I wasn't able to do well with my repairs. But that is one thing I am very careful about..and since it pays so well to be independent I can spend the extra time on making sure everything is perfect.



_Modified by sabatosh at 8:57 AM 9-24-2005_


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

And if a car falls off of the jack and goes through their wall? Then what? That's the point I'm trying to get across to you. And for once I'm not being a dick about it( Not sure why.) If you replace a master cyl and a few miles down the road it fails and the car is wrecked and the person is injured or killed....What then? If you don't carry insurance and you advertise like you want to you will be phucked. I'm speaking from experience as is Vdubs, we're not blowing smoke up your but. Think about the worst case scenario and plan for it.


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_If you break something, you fix it...there's nothing on these cars that is so expensive to fix or replace unless you smash the thing. Most expensive parts are the drivetrain, and any shop can break your car, and dodge responsibility, even if they are insured. You still have to sue them, and if you can't get a hold of them, what do you do? Plus they will try to talk their way out of it anyhow. But if you are not driving the car, when the owner is not with you, then there's not much risk anyhow.
I never have to use torches...I've never broken a bolt either. But if in the event something out of the ordinary would happen. I would have the car towed to the nearest shop for assistance.
What is a bad idea is to build so much overhead for yourself and entrapment that you have to work constantly and can't be competitive, for a market that is fluxuating.
The alternative is to dump thousands of dollars into an area that may not be so grateful for the service anyhow. That's too entrapping for me...

Not to mention insurance if the customer walks by and trips, falls, cuts their hand in a debilitating way on one of your wrenches, or if you drop a transmission on your foot, or if you don't torque a tie-rod end , it rolls out of alignement pops off customer looses control and knocks down a Jersey barrier. You can never consider too many things when doing this.
Do you really want to be working outdoors in the rain when a customer wants their work done A.S.A.P.? How do you plan to fit witin a reasonable time rate without access to air tools, or do you have a portable compressor? What about theft? What happens when someone breaks into your work vehicle and takes all of your stuff--your livelihood. You have to consider all of this, this is why insurance is so important: giving you some reassurance for what you can't anticipate.
How can you never broken a bolt? Have you ever changed an exhaust manifold gasket? What about tie-rod ends? They're damn near next to impossible to remove without propane or MAPP gas.
How are you going to explain to the customer that you need to send the car to a shop to fix something you broke. They're NOT going to be happy when they have to pay not only you, but now an external contractor as well.
Jacks and jackstands? What if you need to run a soldering iron? Etc etc etc. 
You really need to plan for everything that you can't plan on, it's a continual learning experience that needs to be done in a professional environment. You'd be much better off making an investment rather than chasing good with bad by trying to allocate funds through a small customer base receiving minimal support--knowhuttamean?


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Is insurance going to account for damages or loss of life from negligent repairs? No it is not...money will not replace those things. The reality of actually being proved responsible for such negilgence is slim. If you fix brakes and they work during a test drive, without question. Then there is little build into the engineering for them to fail suddenly. If they should fail by some odd occurance, then there would have to be some proof that the installation led to this and it wasn't just defective manufacturing of the parts. 
I think any customer would know off the bat if the brake pedal didn't feel right. And again if it somehow failed, how can it not be said that something was damaged at no fault of the shop?
Plus if something like that happens, guess what your insurance is going up sky high, and you'll be out of business anyhow.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

I think you all are putting the wagon before the horse here. You can't invest in a business when you have no reason or faith for it to succeed even when established for large commercial use. Why would you gamble on that investment?


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_I think you all are putting the wagon before the horse here. You can't invest in a business when you have no reason or faith for it to succeed even when established for large commercial use. Why would you gamble on that investment?

If you have no faith in your business succeeding then why even bother? That's kinda pointless if you ask me....and since this is a public forum, you did.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well in my experience even established and insured shops still get away with murder. If something is wrong with the car, they are dodgy and if leads to a problem, then they'll blame the car and the person operating it for driving when it had a problem. It's very difficult to prove that any repair caused a problem, and there's no way to guarantee the parts are not defective.
I can understand having insurance is a safe business practice to protect your company and prevent liability. But if you don't have much business it's just excessive overhead that eats away all profits. If the business demand provides enuff oppertunity to compensate then none of these things are out of reach.
But you don't commit to spending money that will not be accounted for with profits, that's just dumb.

I mean just the idea of sueing a carshop for an accident is unheard of. I have never in my life came across a scenerio where there was an accident and they came back and blamed it on the carshop and won.
If you have a business front, sure you need the insurance to cover liability from law suits and mainly to protect workers, car accidents.
But if you are doing simple repairs that you can afford to insure yourself with your own money than, there's not much problem. You have the client sign a waiver that denys your liability. 


_Modified by sabatosh at 9:36 AM 9-24-2005_


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

You need to understand something here:
Without insurance, it doesn't matter what someone can or cannot prove. If they even THINK you're putting on a shady business, you're uninsured, and you're non-compliant, you WILL go to jail for fraudulant business measures.
Big shops get away with murder because they're able to work around the red tape because they're _well inside it_. It's much harder to be the small fish in a pond full of sharks; starting a small business is admirable, but if you don't do it the right way from the beginning it's doomed, no matter how much money you throw at it.


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Dude. Your an idiot. The State of New Jersey will make you get insurance. You must have it or you cannot run a business. If they catch you, you'll be paying a ton for fines and spend alot of time in jail.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

welll....I've read some things online about starting a tune up auto business or different types of auto businesses. From what I understand the laws are very leinent against a small repair business. You could probably even get away without paying taxes..if you are not doing a significant amount of business, you don't have a shop, and you really don't have much liability.
Laws are meant to be interpreted, not blindly followed in every instance.



_Modified by sabatosh at 9:41 AM 9-24-2005_


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

Laws are meant to be interpreted: BY JUDGES. It's not your job to interpret them. 
Legally you are required for any business having a recordable amount of profit or loss providing a service you have to do two things par minimum: (1) have insurance (2) pay taxes.
I don't know what books you're reading, but it sounds like the 'scam you can make millions doing nothing' pieces of garbage that inundate the shelves of self-help isles.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well I can handle some insurance, I wouldn't need much being on call, which is good. You don't need property insurance, and the amout of insurance or need for it varies in the perticular area.
I am looking into it, but I have months to plan for it. So it shouldn't be too difficult, too get my minimum requirements. Because I'd need a much more limited policy than a shop.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

No you would not need less insurance than a shop. You will need to change your auto insurance to cover your BUSINESS vehicle. Once you start using it for a company wehicle the policies are different. And the simple fact that you are working on someone else's property does mean you are not responsible for any damages incurred when your are the cause of them.


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

Actually if anything you need more since you'll be working on site at residential properties. The liability to protect their property alone is enough to make your head spin. 
Save your money, open a shop, you'll thank yourself later.
There's a reason that a lot of small independent guys are closing their doors, it's just becoming too expensive to work on these cars when you're on such a small scale. Sure, some had bad business to begin with, but more than less it's because they simply cannot afford to compete anymore.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

You're crossing the line between an amature helping a friend and claiming to be professional and charging money, you get to charge $100 an hr because of the overheads like tools, insurance, travel, warranties etc, you can't charge pro rates and remain an amature, if you could do that we would all be doing it.


_Modified by Vdubs at 6:54 PM 9-24-2005_


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well right now i just want to see what sort of demand I get. I'm not gonna jump into anything unless the volume is there to make it profitable. I wanna analyze the type of work needed, and the number of clients that need work done.
I'm really looking at the marketing, and seeing what sort of pull I have with that. Then if it seems profitable I will invest, if it doesn't then I can try some other area. The nice thing about this area, is that property and insurance are much cheaper than other areas.
If I can line up enuff volume of business demand to pay for insurance and to make a good profit for other overhead, then I will do on call service. If I am able to do well with that and profit well enuff, then I will invest in a shop. The thing about the shop is the commitment to the lease and other expenses.
One step at a time...


_Modified by sabatosh at 10:28 AM 9-24-2005_


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

On-call service is a waste of time and energy and will only frustrate both parties. Which is enough to make anyone go batty.
Good luck with whatever you want to do, but really think 10 times about whatever decision you make before committing.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well it might be a starting point...all I would need is professional liability insurance, as long as I did the repairs on a public area like a street. Then with profits and steady demand I can commit to some sort of property lease.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Well it might be a starting point...all I would need is professional liability insurance, as long as I did the repairs on a *public area like a street. *.

I know in Allentown it is illegal to even change your tire on the street. You can and will be ticketed for doing so. Ask me how I know.


----------



## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jetta* »_I know in Allentown it is illegal to even change your tire on the street. You can and will be ticketed for doing so. Ask me how I know.

just let it go man, he'll be plenty busy with small claims courts


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*

You're probably very right.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

There's two cops in my town, it's not like they are cracking down. It's more about seeing what sort of demand I get. If I'm working on newer cars, it'll be more maintenance work, recalls, and electrical stuff.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

I don't see you getting any of that kind of work man. If it's a recall, it's the dealer. If it's maint. on a car under warranty, it's the dealer. And no offense.....electrical work?


----------



## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_There's two cops in my town, it's not like they are cracking down. It's more about seeing what sort of demand I get. If I'm working on newer cars, it'll be more maintenance work, recalls, and electrical stuff.


Well if there are only two cops, then that usually means there are not alot of people living in your area. Which would also mean there will be a lack of people dumb enough to call you in need of assistance.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

That's not true, we used to have a ton of cops, the city just couldn't afford them. There's like only 5% German cars in this whole area if that...it's a nitche market. If I get one or two jobs though that will pay for my year of advertising, if I get one or two jobs a month that will pay for my insurance.
If I can get 40 jobs lined up in addition to that, that will pay for a new shop for the year, then the rest is profits. So there is a lot of potential still to make profits, and like I said it's a laid back small town, the heat doesn't have much presence, people aren't really picky and are used to small businesses. 
You can't believe how delapidated this body shop in town is. It's like one garage, hell hole, it is so ugly, and disorganized. But I'd say they get a great deal of business, just cause the area is thrifty. People are thrifty with their German cars too, but they want the work done right. There's not any mainstream specialists to fix the newer cars, so I see potential market.
Plus I think everything will fall into place easily in this area....it's pretty laid back. It's sort of chaotic, since there's not much enforment of laws or regulations. The place needs business, and doesn't want to stop business growth in it's infancy over technicalities.

I was speaking with the owner of the largest transmission shop in town and he explained to me how his workers are in the upper 10% of richest people in the area. I feel the area really appreciates the revenue of a strong auto business, especially something that would attract european car owners to the area from bigger cities.
But I don't see things working out any other way, either the area is laid back and the demand is there, and people aren't super picky. Or there really is no way to establish and run a business profitably in the area. I mean I could pay for the lease on a shop with my credit card if I wanted too, or get a business loan. But it just seems like too much at stake when I haven't established that there is a strong demand for this service all year long.


_Modified by sabatosh at 8:03 PM 9-24-2005_


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

One or two jobs will NOT pay for your yearly insurance. If you can say something like that then you obviously have not looked into insurance.
And advertising only goes so far.....If it gets around that you broke a bolt or had to have a car towed somewhere else because you couldn't get a tie rod off.....not good man.
You really need to do some REAL research here.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_I was speaking with the owner of the largest transmission shop in town and he explained to me how his workers are in the upper 10% of richest people in the area. 

He's full of **** man. You must live in a very poor town if that's true.


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

40 jobs will pay for what? Your a ****ing retard. There is no way 40 jobs will pay for a new shop in a year. Obviously you can't do math so how in the hell are you gonna run a business? Yeh so you have 40 jobs. Thats 40 people who wont be back and you will be bankrupt before you even make a dime. Your idea is High school kid thinking. Not a mature person actually looking to make money.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

Where do you live Sab, i'm moving there, i rebuilt trans and do bodywork, i'll be loaded. 
Btw, it's more like 500 cars a year for 1 man.


_Modified by Vdubs at 5:12 AM 9-25-2005_


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

well more precisely about $600-$800, for insurance each month, which can be made on two jobs without much effort. This town is poor...that's why property is so cheap, I'm talking 1k a month with utilities for a 3 bay auto shop with a lift.
The only thing is that they want 6k upfront, so it's a big investment, that you'd only take if you had business. Cause a new business in a new market already has too many factors against them. I'll work something out hopefully by the summer I will have a good feel for what to expect business wise. For the time being I can be discreet and do big overhaul jobs at my house, risk a fine, big deal. Take a lot of on call diagnostic service and a lot of repairs you can discreetly do outside.
Plus it would be great if I could insure myself on 6 month plans, lapse and insure. That way I would be getting seasonal business to boost my bottomline. Because the colder months are gonna be slow, and I'm not gonna want to take as much on call business. So that's something I have to discuss and look into as well.


_Modified by sabatosh at 12:21 AM 9-25-2005_


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_well more precisely about $600-$800, for insurance each month, which can be made on two jobs without much effort. This town is poor...that's why property is so cheap, I'm talking 1k a month with utilities for a 3 bay auto shop with a lift.
The only thing is that they want 6k upfront, so it's a big investment, that you'd only take if you had business. Cause a new business in a new market already has too many factors against them. I'll work something out hopefully by the summer I will have a good feel for what to expect business wise. For the time being I can be discreet and do big overhaul jobs at my house, risk a fine, big deal. Take a lot of on call diagnostic service and a lot of repairs you can discreetly do outside.
Plus it would be great if I could insure myself on 6 month plans, lapse and insure. That way I would be getting seasonal business to boost my bottomline. Because the colder months are gonna be slow, and I'm not gonna want to take as much on call business. So that's something I have to discuss and look into as well.

_Modified by sabatosh at 12:21 AM 9-25-2005_

How do you figure that you're going to make $600-800 on only two jobs??? Gross profit, maybe, but net???? On a complete tune up you'd be lucky if you came out with 50 bucks... how are you figuring on making a month's rent in 2 jobs?


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

by charging 75$ an hour..or more..if I do two 4 hour jobs..that's about 600$, plus I charge them taxes. I'm not sure what I'd have to pay in profit taxes, but still it can be done in a days work, if you have a few cars lined up.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

OK, I want to hear this one......
Customer: I have a 92 jetta, I need a new master cylinder and rear shoes installed. Can I have an estimate on the price please?
Youinsert your reply here)


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

I got one too.

Customer: How much for a new tranny for my 92 auto Passat 16v?
You: ....................


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

AHHAHHAHAH....
I really want to hear his response to these.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well, 92 jetta estimate for cylinder and shoes..I would charge $50 for parts, throw in a spring kit, suggest the drums be turned or replaced, so throw in another $20-$50 for that. Then brake fluid would cost another 10$, and installation would roughly take 4 hours. So I would say 110$+ labor whatever I felt comfortable using as a rate. 75-100$ not sure what I can get off people yet..

So you figure about $500 rough estimate with a lot of new parts. But I would have to check to see if the e-brake cables are good too, might wind up replacing them as well. Plus I would try and sell bearings on top of it. So it can add up to extra hours for less work, and a better overall deal.
Well for the trans, that would depend on what type they wanted, used/rebuilt/reman which can range in price from 100$ to $2k or more. Then for labor I would charge about $1000-$1500 for complete installation, vag-com reprogramming etc. All depends though...I would of course try to sell them a complete drive train overhaul, which could be quoted as thousands more with engine work.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

You have nooo idea....
do you have a pressure bleeder?


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

It's a bit vague, and no I bleed brakes the old fashioned pump method. I've never liked using other methods, it's hard to find a cap that fits the master cylinder properly, and it really is just a pain in the neck. Of course you need a helper to do the pump method, but I have that here.


_Modified by sabatosh at 5:52 PM 9-25-2005_


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

I'd charge you 1 hr for shoes 1 hr for cylinder, drums come with new bearings fitted by us 1/2hr, cables are 1/2hr too. 3hrs total.
Shoes and cylinders are £24.
Drums with bearings are £40 for 2.
Cables are £17.
£232 total, in a shop







.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

thank you vdubs http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That's what I was shooting for


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well to get all those things for me would cost about $150 unless I went totally generic. Then labor like I said I could differ on, if the person wants a package rate. But what if the hard brake line breaks coming off the wheel cylinder? You are gonna throw in another hour to bend hard lines free and soft lines?
I personally would price high starting out, if I have a lot of business volume to make up for time lost on potential tie ups on a project, then I can compromise a rate. But if you are selling people a very low rate they might just think you are selling them junk parts.
But you're asking 425 almost and I'm asking $450 at $75/hr labor+ more I would try to sell time on the cables, and bearings for the potential of problems.
As long as I can beat the dealers price that's fine. I don't perticularly like doing drum brakes, either, they can be a pain and in an old car it can be a can of worms. But I doubt anyone will give them a better quote in the area than me. If they really want the work done that's fine. Maybe this why you said you don't make any money Vdubs, perhaps you are undercharging.
In my experience just being a specialist sells the work for it's quality. People trust your work more and your parts, plus those who have money that you want as customers, don't really mind paying the bit extra. If you want to attract cheap skate customers, who are gonna complain about every little thing and are chincy, then you are just setting yourself up for a headache.



_Modified by sabatosh at 6:46 PM 9-25-2005_


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

I'm not cheap, average shop labor in London is £40, i charge £50 the dealer up the road is only £65.
I fit only genuine parts, and as for making money, i've been in business 18 years how dya think i did that, i don't make money now because i don't do any work, there is a link, i spend all day playing with my cars in my shop, thanks.


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*









This will be you in no time! I guarentee it.


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*

This is what you need to do......


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well my rates are negotiable, but my only competition is the dealer really. They charge $150 an hour here, so it's not hard to beat them. Where do you get your parts from, do you have to buy in bulk?


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

I don't buy in bulk, i just know where to get the parts







.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

yeah, so do I, but these are the best rates I can find, which are pretty good I think. So I am waiting on some insurance quotes now, and should find out by the end of the week. They said that the quotes are based on payroll and I described to them that I will be doing mostly small repairs and diagnostics on VW's on call service.
So they said I will be looking at very low minimum rates being a sole proprietor. So I should find out by the end of the week what sort of insurance rates I'm dealing with








But they probably won't be much, because the expected profits aren't going to be huge, and the type of work not extensively risky.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

You're going to need to insure your helper that will be helping you with brake jobs as well. He could also be sued if the vehicle repair or a part fails. I know I wouldn't help you out if I was him. It's these types of things that you need to consider.


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

And his wages etc.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubs* »_And his wages etc.

Don't forget the strippers either









Isn't the proprietor supposed to pay for that?


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

Isn't the proprietor supposed to have premises.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

oh yeah...forgot bout that


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well I'm not worried about it, since helper doesn't get any money. It's my responsibility to authorize the repairs as complete. No one knows who's helping me...so they can't point the finger.
I was just talking to my friend who owns 3 computer stores in the area. He's younger than me and started out in a similar circumstance by having very little stock in a store, and the demand just escalated.
With property so cheap in this area, and it's desire to attract business, it's easy for him to run 3 stores. The kids a high school drop out too...so I think that there is gonna be enuff demand here to help me move my business to Jersey and establish a shop in both areas after some time if I want too.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Good luck I guess. We've all tried to tell you the facts and you don't want to listen or are incapable of listening. Either way, just don't do anything tooo stupid. 
Wow, I think this is a record for one of sabatosh's threads.....5 pages and no lock in sight....yet


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## vr6todd (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Well I'm not worried about it, since helper doesn't get any money.

Somebody is gonna work for you for _free_? There's more than a few problems with that.


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (vr6todd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6todd* »_
Somebody is gonna work for you for _free_? There's more than a few problems with that.

Noooooo don't be silly, Sab will only be getting $100 an hr, there's no way his helper would expect any of it, that's just ridicules, we all know everyone works for free except Sab, I mean after all I've employed hundreds of guys and none of them wanted any money, yea right







.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

My uncle is my helper, of course he'll do it free. Damn he's loaded, he needs something to keep him active in his old age. hehehe


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Hope he's a mechanic too







.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubs* »_Hope he's a mechanic too







.

BWAHHHAHAHAHA


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

nope...I mean he's done some mechanical work, but not by profession. He's pretty helpful...but a bit stubborn sometimes. He worked with asbestos when it was big, and he doesn't see the problem with sanding down brake pads, that may contain asbestos.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_nope...I mean he's done some mechanical work, but not by profession. He's pretty helpful...but a bit stubborn sometimes. He worked with asbestos when it was big, and he doesn't see the problem with sanding down brake pads, that may contain asbestos.


You have got to be kidding me...


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

No I'm serious he's goofy like that..hahah


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_nope...I mean he's done some mechanical work, but not by profession. He's pretty helpful...but a bit stubborn sometimes. He worked with asbestos when it was big, and he doesn't see the problem with sanding down brake pads, that may contain asbestos.


ahhh the retardness must run in the family.


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_nope...I mean he's done some mechanical work, but not by profession. He's pretty helpful...but a bit stubborn sometimes. He worked with asbestos when it was big, and he doesn't see the problem with sanding down brake pads, that may contain asbestos.

Holy ****ing ****.







I hope he doesn't plan to do that to any customer's cars, and I sincerely hope he has an EXCELLENT insurance policy, not many people who were asbestos removers are faring well; there's a big reason that stuff isn't used anymore. 
You know what... I'm just gonna go drink a







and let this roll on its own...


----------



## RVa16v (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*









i thought this needed an illustration.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well my uncle actually just had some bad stuff happen to him. A blood vessel in his throat burst because of projectile vomiting due to some sort of junk he had to take for a doctors exam that made him vomit too hard. Being on blood thinners it made him bleed 4pints before the hospital took care of it.
He's pushing 80 he's a geezer..hehehe


----------



## smetzger (Oct 21, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

I think you should get 8vGumby to help you out.


----------



## RVa16v (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: (smetzger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smetzger* »_I think you should get 8vGumby to help you out.


_Quote, originally posted by *8vGumby* »_ok found it, couldn't find any canooter valves. only this blowoff valve thing. is that like a canooter valve or does it repalce it?








good call http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

hahahah....yeah...well eventually I will need a gumby....no doubt about that. hehehe


----------



## bassman1987 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_
I think any customer would know off the bat if the brake pedal didn't feel right. And again if it somehow failed, how can it not be said that something was damaged at no fault of the shop?


One of my friends failed to realize he only had a quart of oil left in the engine and was only wondering why the engine was rough without much consideration or hurry.... people are stupid, take it in account


----------



## bassman1987 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Well, 92 jetta estimate for cylinder and shoes..I would charge $50 for parts, throw in a spring kit, suggest the drums be turned or replaced, so throw in another $20-$50 for that. Then brake fluid would cost another 10$, and installation would roughly take 4 hours. So I would say 110$+ labor whatever I felt comfortable using as a rate. 75-100$ not sure what I can get off people yet..

So you figure about $500 rough estimate with a lot of new parts. But I would have to check to see if the e-brake cables are good too, might wind up replacing them as well. Plus I would try and sell bearings on top of it. So it can add up to extra hours for less work, and a better overall deal.
Well for the trans, that would depend on what type they wanted, used/rebuilt/reman which can range in price from 100$ to $2k or more. Then for labor I would charge about $1000-$1500 for complete installation, vag-com reprogramming etc. All depends though...I would of course try to sell them a complete drive train overhaul, which could be quoted as thousands more with engine work.


Do you have the lathe to turn drums ( I don't want to say anything stupid, but wasn't it rotors that needed to be turned? )
4 hours to do rear drums, my mech does it in 1.5...
Around here, a tranny replacement would cost no more than 400$ CAD, in the extreme case where nothing would have gone as planned...
You'll be brankrupting before the first job....


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

This isn't canada, I can be very competitive and sell people quality work, not cheaply done rush jobs. I don't have a machine to turn the drums or rotors, and I generally just replace them, unless they are very expensive as with some trucks or cars.
Hell there's lots of little shops around here who will do a rush job on the cheap. I can't compete with their low low bottom barrel rates. But I can offer a better special service, and discount on VW parts.
Those guys can do bear work fast, sure..but they can't do anything skilled that requires a brain.
Here the dealers charge $1200 just to change a seal on a torque converter.
I'm gonna do lighter work...and mostly diagnostic unless there's demand. Also I will be moving my business out to NJ by the summer, so if I am getting better pay there, and more customers, all the better. I'm not worried, it's not hard to make more than the dealer was paying me.
I can make a weeks pay in 4 hours..


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_
I can make a weeks pay in 4 hours..


You really are clueless.


----------



## bassman1987 (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_This isn't canada, I can be very competitive and sell people quality work, not cheaply done rush jobs. I don't have a machine to turn the drums or rotors, and I generally just replace them, unless they are very expensive as with some trucks or cars.
Hell there's lots of little shops around here who will do a rush job on the cheap. I can't compete with their low low bottom barrel rates. But I can offer a better special service, and discount on VW parts.
Those guys can do bear work fast, sure..but they can't do anything skilled that requires a brain.
Here the dealers charge $1200 just to change a seal on a torque converter.
I'm gonna do lighter work...and mostly diagnostic unless there's demand. Also I will be moving my business out to NJ by the summer, so if I am getting better pay there, and more customers, all the better. I'm not worried, it's not hard to make more than the dealer was paying me.
I can make a weeks pay in 4 hours..


We'll discuss some points there... I don't see why canadian would work with less talent than you first.
Secondly, my mech has more than 30 years of VW knowledge, works awesomly fast and is very precise, he offers parts AND work warranty on everything ( legal ) and still charges 50$ per hour.
You are an idiot and proves the quote that says : A fool doesn't know he's a fool...


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

I don't think he'd do all that in 1.5 hours that's just not practical. I could see charging that much to change your shoes. But to overhaul your brakes and put in a master cylinder, brake cables, bearings, you have got to be dreaming.
As for putting in a trans in 4 hours...that's not hard with experience on a certain model and the right tools. I'm not even gonna be doing this work, I'm gonna be doing more light repairs and diagnostic stuff at first. 
I've went to guys who worked cheap, and they didn't work good. You get what you pay for..maybe you have one mechanic who is generous with his time up there. I certainly don't wanna be working at his age.
I don't see what your hang up with money is, the more customers pay me the more I have to give back to the area, and them with service options. If they don't want my services, let someone else take care of them, I'm sure I can do a better job than the only car dealer in the area, who doesn't even sell just VW's, or anything perticular so they aren't quite specialists.



_Modified by sabatosh at 8:02 PM 9-28-2005_


----------



## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

so sabatage.....
you really think its not possible to completely tear down the brakes, turn all four corners (discs and drums, or four discs) and have it all back together in an hour and a half????
i can do it in less than an hour, and that includes drums..while changing the wheel cylinders, and bleeding it. 
any half assed mechanic can do it in under two hours, and you say it takes you 4 hours????
god i hope no one actually lets you work on thier car


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ I'm not even gonna be doing this work, I'm gonna be doing more light repairs and diagnostic stuff at first. 


If you are doing diagnostic work....who is going to fix the problems after you use your vast knowledge and deduce the problem?


----------



## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jetta* »_
If you are doing diagnostic work....who is going to fix the problems after you use your vast knowledge and deduce the problem?

A real mechanic maybe??


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (JettaMatt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaMatt* »_
A real mechanic maybe??










Would you trust his diagnoatic skills?


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_I don't think he'd do all that in 1.5 hours that's just not practical. I could see charging that much to change your shoes. 

It's funny how you start a thread about the charges but disagree with everyones quotes of book times saying they're too cheap or some other excuse, and funnily enough I'm not surprised one bit, i guess you need the book times so you know what to double.
You sound like a conman trying to convince everyone you're not doing anything wrong.


----------



## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_I don't think he'd do all that in 1.5 hours that's just not practical. I could see charging that much to change your shoes. But to overhaul your brakes and put in a master cylinder, brake cables, bearings, you have got to be dreaming.
As for putting in a trans in 4 hours...that's not hard with experience on a certain model and the right tools. I'm not even gonna be doing this work, I'm gonna be doing more light repairs and diagnostic stuff at first. 
I've went to guys who worked cheap, and they didn't work good. You get what you pay for..maybe you have one mechanic who is generous with his time up there. I certainly don't wanna be working at his age.
I don't see what your hang up with money is, the more customers pay me the more I have to give back to the area, and them with service options. If they don't want my services, let someone else take care of them, I'm sure I can do a better job than the only car dealer in the area, who doesn't even sell just VW's, or anything perticular so they aren't quite specialists.

_Modified by sabatosh at 8:02 PM 9-28-2005_


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

You people can't even read right....this includes changing the master cylinder, brake cables, and bleeding the brakes. I have to admit that doing the springs on drums isn't always friendly either but vise-grips help.
I can't say what is a fair price for everything, cause I don't have experience doing the job on every car. That is why I started this thread, because flatrates help me keep myself competitive but not gyp myself.
I dunno how long it would take me to do many repairs if I rushed and had access to everything I needed. I'm prodigous, not overexperienced..


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ I can't say what is a fair price for everything, cause I don't have experience doing the job on every car. 

That's why we asked you about the jobs you have just done on your own cars, not a quote to replace an oil pump on a V12 jag.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Yeah but I never did those under pressure or in any hurry. I know there can be some complications, with the brake lines braking off cylinders, and that can really deter the project. I also know that bending brake lines in the weird positions and clipping them up is not as easy as it sounds.
I have located some CD rom with a full database of labor rates for all makes and models. It's like 300$ though, I am wondering I can find any VW german car specific ones for less.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Overheads are creeping in already, looking like the $75 hr aint gonna go far. $300 just to give a quote, ouch, that's gotta sting and it's not even up and earning yet.
Just out of interest how many cars have you actually done yourself, excluding your cars? Be honest now, we'll understand.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

How many cars have I worked on, besides my own? Well I just made $20 today tensioning a p/s pump on an old caddy. Independently I've only worked on under a dozen. At the car dealer I'd work on maybe a few hard projects a day, a lot more alignments, recalls, maintenance.
So I would guesstimate maybe a 100 selectively difficult tasks on other peoples cars over a few months time.
Yeah I got tons of overhead, plus I will need a manual for each car I'm gonna work on. So that's a few hundred there for most of the VW ones. Then if I wanna do other cars, more manuals, so there is a lot of overhead initially the most. But if the demand is there and I can do a lot of work, I know that I can make it back fairly easy. Compared to music, since this type of labor just is in more demand and it's not trendy or very competitive.
I've replaced window motors/regulators, adjusted windows off track, replaced leaky oil sensors, waterpumps, timing/tensioner, ball joints, stabalizer bar bushings, control arms, axles, diagnosed and fixed lots of A/C problems, done many alignments, brake jobs, tons of inspections, oil changes, trans flushes, valve body replacement diagnostic, 1000's of online diagnostics for difficult problems, replaced entire carpet on a honda, headlights, tail lights, tires, plugged tires, balanced tires, rotated tires, brake lines, pulled heads, replaced fuel pumps, and fuel level senders, removed dash boards, replaced engine wiring harness, installed performance mufflers, running boards, trim accessories, grilles, replaced ignition switches, computers, bcm's, transmissions, transaxles, struts & mounts, bearings, hubs, blower fan resistor packs, head gaskets, valve cover gaskets, exhaust manifold gaskets, p/s pumps, oil pan and gaskets, bled brakes, replaced master cylinders, replaced many sensor and wiring, installed stereos & systems, replaced heating elements in heated seats, replaced clocksprings, sparkplugs, wires, distributors, coils, flushed coolant, radiator caps, air conditioning hoses/seals, shifters, shiftlocks, removed glove boxes, engine/trans mounts, calipers, drums, rotors, brake cables, batteries, heat shields, tauna's, truck covers, starters, pullies, belts, cats, vapor barriers, emblems, flashed ecm's, drive axle pinion seal, torque converter seal, tie rods, vacuum hoses, throttle bodies, throttle sensors, fuel filters, antenna's, air filters, window wash, installed trailer hitch, hehehe and so many other things I can't even think of....all in a few months most of it working. and most of my reading and help experiences have been on german cars mainly VW's.









Things I don't have much hands on experience with are manual transmissions, heater cores, evaporators, welding, full engine rebuilding, installing fuel distributors, installing windsheilds, or convertible tops, modifying engines, turbo systems, professional painting and bodywork. I only do paintless dent removal and spray can painting.
But it's all just more of the same type stuff, some tricks to it that you pick up with experience and the right tools. Just about everything else I'm pretty seasoned with, and I'd expect having done those things I could accomplish other stuff easy too.
Not to mention I've taken apart airplane engines and changed coolant hoses, and oil, and helped with various things of inspections on them.



_Modified by sabatosh at 2:00 PM 9-29-2005_


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Holy book writing bat man!
I can sum that all up in a few words...
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH bull****!


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Ok, now remove things like a coolant cap, filling a washer bottle and all the jobs on your cars.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

And add that you put a VW into reverse


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

I've done just about everything I've done to my car to other cars. Struts, Exhaust, gaskets, brakes, transmission, mirrors, brake flush, ball joints, etc.
But I would say if I can do many of the hard repairs I've done, then I can do others. Shows I have a strong aptitude for getting various stuff done. I mean I just look at cars I'm not familar with as the new model, and you have to learn them. They aren't a huge difference but you have to figure out what is different, and learn the quirks.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Can we see a photo of your toolbox?


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*









And my workstation


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

heheh well I have a big work bench right next to me here. I have a craftsman three drawer carry box that I keep most of my small tools stuff into. Then I have a large rolling tool box that I keep a lot of bigger tools stuff into. Then I have a few more tool boxes with miscelaneous tools I don't use that often.
But I have a lot of good German tools, like Stahlwille and Hazet, and a lot of special VW tools. I wanna get more stahlwille wrenches, they are awesome..heheh I don't think I'd be able to do a lot of jobs without them seriously.
The are strong, grip tough and have a thin profile that I can get bolts I normally wouldn't be able to do. I have IR air tools, and all the impact stuff..I have a pretty decent tool set, though of course I could always use more and better versions of some stuff I have.


----------



## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jetta* »_








And my workstation 










my dad has a killer set of tools.......he's a tv repairman


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

But I have all my standard sockets are craftsman since I don't use them much. They aren't too pricey and have a lifetime warranty. What I don't like about using their stuff normally, is it is too clunky and akward to work on cars with their stuff. Snap-On is crap too, their wrenches are overrated.
German tools are definately the finest, they are lighter, better made all around. Snap-On has a lot of good specialty tools mainly for domestics, but they are still overrated crap in comparison to fine german tools.
The thing with snap on though is usually the snap-on guy gives out accounts easily. So most people buy all this stuff on credit and pay it off for years. I actually own all my tools, I don't owe anything on them, and I do have something for everyjob.
The German wrenches and bits I have are great for interior and engine work, the thin profile and lightness makes them a pleasure to use. Most of the time though for heavier stuff I'm just using impact 6 point sockets, and wobble joints, with huge extensions, my breaker bar or my torque wrenches. I use my IR on tires mostly wheel lugs and I mean when you can on engine work, but you have to be careful of stripping out bolts and damaging things. Try to use my 3/8 inch IR rachet when I can too, to make interior work, or lighter engine work go faster. But trans work engine work where you don't have much access I'm always using muscle and some small german wrenches.
The secret is this small 8inch copper pipe I put this around these small wrenches as an extension and I can adjust it, and get just enuff grip and leverage to get even the worst bolts.










_Modified by sabatosh at 8:53 AM 9-30-2005_


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_
The secret is this small 8inch copper pipe I put this around these small wrenches as an extension and I can adjust it, and get just enuff grip and leverage to get even the worst bolts.











Thanks for the tip.


----------



## '-.-' (Sep 9, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


fill in the blank


_Modified by '-.-' at 1:17 AM 10-2-2005_


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Business is looking good, still waiting for my insurance quotes to come in, but the neighbor wants to help me if I have any big overhauls, he's a mechanic and needs the money. 
Also there's only one VW shop in the whole area, the guy is so busy he doesn't even advertise and he only does older VW's mostly. He sucks and screwed up my cousins car after keeping it over a month and a half. hehehe
So I am sure I will pickup whatever wasted ass work this guy has screwed up and a lot more. I think I picked the perfect nitche, and there's a lot of shops to concider now in the area. One just got busted with drugs, and the building is open now in town.
Slowly but surely I think I will find much success! I mean hey least I'm not dealing drugs...no quality mechanics want to move to this area, so it's an open oyster bed.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ I mean hey least I'm not dealing drugs.


nope, you're just doin them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Business is looking good, still waiting for my insurance quotes to come in, but the neighbor wants to help me if I have any big overhauls, he's a mechanic and needs the money. 
Also there's only one VW shop in the whole area, the guy is so busy he doesn't even advertise and he only does older VW's mostly. He sucks and screwed up my cousins car after keeping it over a month and a half. hehehe...*he beat me by a week*
So I am sure I will pickup whatever wasted ass work this guy has screwed up and * screw it up a lot more.* I think I picked the perfect nitche, and there's a lot of shops to concider now in the area. One just got busted with drugs, and the building is open now in town.
Slowly but surely I think I will find much success! I mean hey least I'm not dealing drugs,*I'm just doing them*...no quality mechanics want to move to this area, so it's an open oyster bed.
 
edited for accuracy


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*

THAT IS TOO DAMM FUNNY!!!!!!


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_but the neighbor wants to help me if I have any big overhauls, he's a mechanic and needs the money. 

Why doesn't he just fix them at home for $100 an hr, and i thought mechanics were payed more than presidents.


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ no quality mechanics want to move to this area, so it's an open oyster bed.

I'm moving there, i'll be you competition. What dya think of that then DQ?




_Modified by Vdubs at 3:48 AM 10-6-2005_


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

He said he doesn't have any business sense...he knows how to fix things, but he can't manage a business. He knows nothing about marketing his services. Also since he only works on domestics, he has too much competition with all the nickle dime rug rat shops in this area that fix those cars and are insured and have a reputation.

Fine you can move to this area...there's plenty of places for me to open up shop, here Jersey, why not both. I mean in time maybe I'll have franchises all over. Plus I invented a really neat new form of fast food pizza, I want to open a restaurant. I've got all the great marketing skills from being a rock star musician.
I have very fine tuned psychadelic marketing skills that have seductive appeal to people. I know what to say, and what sorts of gimmicks and things I have to push to market things. hehehe I am clever...
My new Pizza Place is gonna be called Good Girl Pizza, and I already got the logo made up. I invented this pizza that I can sell...it will be fast food and people will gorge on it and my overhead is gonna be next to nill and my profits will be thru the roof, and it's very franchiseable.
Any idiot could make it....so I can pay minimum wage and still offer a superior quality product. I am genius...

_Modified by sabatosh at 7:58 PM 10-5-2005_


_Modified by sabatosh at 8:04 PM 10-5-2005_


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

That's a coincidence i was going to set up a shop in Jersey too, we can be neighbors.
Have you been reincarnated?


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ Any idiot could make it....so I can pay minimum wage and still offer a superior quality product. I am genius...

That's a good point, you'll be able to employ yourself to save even more on overheads.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

This thread just got even more stupid..if that's possible


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

I knew that this had to be a joke. I wonder who you really are? No one can really, truly be so delusional. Oh, and by the way, if you're such a genius by all means, please underscore that point by LEARNING HOW TO SPELL. It's really not that hard. Look, I'll even help: http://www.m-w.com , not looking completely ignorant is a mere click away!


----------



## VegasJetta (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*

thats it.. 
someone find me his address please.. I will fly to wherever he is and put him out of his misery. enough is enough already with this guy. he is retarded, and a danger to others if he is going to try to run his own business, let alone a franchised fast food pizza place? WTF is he thinking? he is a self proclaimed genius.. those are the ones that usually belong in a prison cell for 25 to life after some heinous crime to humanity. 
if there is anyone with info on this guy, please forward it to me, and I will put together a group of people to go eliminate the problem. 
I have been on this forum a long time, and have never seen anyone as stupid as this guy. he needs to go away asafp. 
[/rant]


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

haha....fast food pizza is the next big thing..GG Pizza. I already got some ads thought up...
"Good Girl Pizza, more of the good stuff, less of the pizza."
Or..."Good Girl Pizza, more of the good stuff."
I'm not self-proclaimed I was accepted into an honorary school for genius people, I just happened to be smarter than those kids.
Selling Pizza is not a crime to humanity!

If you wanna know where I live, I live by maddjetta and by the other sin haven on the east coast, somewhat a mock off where you're at.



_Modified by sabatosh at 10:46 AM 10-6-2005_


----------



## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_
I'm not self-proclaimed I was accepted into an honorary school for genius people, I just happened to be smarter than those kids.


Buahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, good one, ha.
I dont know if you realize this, but fast food pizza isnt a new thing. On my University campus alone I think theres about 3 or 4 of those. Im sure there are probably a lot more around the city. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Vegas, you will be doing us all a favour







.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_If you wanna know where I live, I live by *maddjetta* and by the other sin haven on the east coast, somewhat a mock off where you're at.


MWWAAHAHHAAHA


----------



## VegasJetta (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (JettaMatt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaMatt* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Vegas, you will be doing us all a favour







.

does that mean you are in?
I am on my way...








Jason Kokinda
420 13th St.
Hammonton, NJ 08037


----------



## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (VegasJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VegasJetta* »_
does that mean you are in?



If I wasnt in school I would be there for sure.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

yeah, but it's not good girl pizza, those places have too much overhead to compete...GG is gonna be huge, move over McDonalds, Wendy's, and Subway.


----------



## VegasJetta (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

reading your posts and seeing your name makes me want to punch babies in the FACE. 
can you just STOP?


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_yeah, but it's not good girl pizza, those places have too much overhead to compete...GG is gonna be huge, move over McDonalds, Wendy's, and Subway.


Grow a dick jackass.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

I have that effect on certain people....yes it's true. There is a minority of lunatic people out there that just loathe me. Maybe you are just a psychopath, I don't think anything would want to make me punch anyone let alone babies in the face.


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## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Minority???????

Can I see a show of hands of people that like sabatosh

(crickets in the distance)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
(more crickets)
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
So the crickets like you....


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2217925 
Maybe this will wake you up.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jetta)*

And WTF!!!!!! You have drug refererences in you sig so shut the hell up!


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Trimming the hedges, or cutting the edges, from 9 to 5 people are jumping from ledges. There's so much evil going down all around, the heat can't keep up so they've become corrupt. Instead of watching out for bad guys with their guns, the cops are writing tickets for smelling the roses, as they snort up drugs in their big fat noses.

WTF do you call that?


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

That's not condoning illegal activities, it's talking about a corrupt law enforcement. I'm not spamming threads with it either as though it were objective content or insinuating with strong bias anyone is using illegal drugs here.


----------



## madd92jetta (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

You're the one that has told us on many occasions about your drug habits....crack, PCP, LSD....ring a bell dip****?


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Who cares if its condoning. Its mentioned in your Sig. Wake up and smell the roses retard, you are not liked here. Everything you say sounds like a 2 year old is saying it and most of the times you go off on these huge comments that have nothing to do with the topic. How many threads of yours have been locked? At least 15 due to the fact you start threads that have absolutly nothing to do with the forum. Take for exampole your thread about your neighbor that keyed your car cuz you wouldn't have sex with her. We don't care about your sex life.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

It's a big difference...since I have an organization aimed against drug abuse. The focus of the topic was people damaging your car, I just wanted to interject the situations, for fun, not that I was posting pornographic or graphic sexual content.
I am not the one who is immature here, I speak in coherent scentences. I don't follow people around and spam them, and belittle them with statements as you do. I don't personally mention anyone with any sort of degrading words.
You guys just have to snap out of it, you are the effects of what ruins my threads. I mean if you don't like me then just let me be, I don't like you but that doesn't give me the right to go following you around and saying do this and do that.
It's not a question of wether you like me, cause objectively you are the one who is at fault. I just feel there is an intelligence defecit in a number of people who frequent these forums, that they think everything is a game, or that they are here to sort people of who's in and out. That's not really your choice, you don't like my personality, you cannot patronize me for it. Just mind your own business...don't try to defunk mine.



_Modified by sabatosh at 12:40 PM 10-6-2005_


----------



## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ He sucks and screwed up my cousins car after keeping it over a month and a half. hehehe..........I mean hey least I'm not dealing drugs...no quality mechanics want to move to this area, so it's an open oyster bed.


being such a qualified mechanic i would think your own family would take thier cars to you instead of some drug dealing screwup


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Most of them do...they want me to fix their cars all the time...I have to turn a lot of them down, cause I feel bad overcharging them, and I feel stupid for wasting my time helping them.


----------



## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_You guys just have to snap out of it, you are the effects of what ruins my threads. I mean if you don't like me then just let me be, 

where's the fun in that


----------



## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_I'm no VW guru...but it was just driving by I spotted it, and I thought mkII, but now looking at it today I didn't even notice it's a convertible. It's friggin' old cabrio rabbit....

didn't you just post this yesterday


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (91_Jetta_GL_8v)*

yep and its in the hole right with his others.


----------



## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (91_Jetta_GL_8v)*

emphasis on the first sentence


----------



## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_He said he doesn't have any business sense...he knows how to fix things, but he can't manage a business. He knows nothing about marketing his services. Also since he only works on domestics, he has too much competition with all the nickle dime rug rat shops in this area that fix those cars and are insured and have a reputation.

Fine you can move to this area...there's plenty of places for me to open up shop, here Jersey, why not both. I mean in time maybe I'll have franchises all over. Plus I invented a really neat new form of fast food pizza, I want to open a restaurant. I've got all the great marketing skills from being a rock star musician.
I have very fine tuned psychadelic marketing skills that have seductive appeal to people. I know what to say, and what sorts of gimmicks and things I have to push to market things. hehehe I am clever...
My new Pizza Place is gonna be called Good Girl Pizza, and I already got the logo made up. I invented this pizza that I can sell...it will be fast food and people will gorge on it and my overhead is gonna be next to nill and my profits will be thru the roof, and it's very franchiseable.
Any idiot could make it....so I can pay minimum wage and still offer a superior quality product. I am genius...

_Modified by sabatosh at 7:58 PM 10-5-2005_

_Modified by sabatosh at 8:04 PM 10-5-2005_

If you're marketing and advertising skills look anything like your first CD cover, well then I'd definitely find someone to do your advertising and marketing for you.


----------



## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

Wow dude, you turned a color picture in to black and white, and added some text. I could do that all in MSPaint with my eyes closed. Some psychadelic marketing and advertising skills you have there


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

You're very depressing to talk too...you people have to get out more. You have nothing but bad things to say all the time, and make fun of everyone. Maybe you are people whoe have low self-esteem...and lash out at others.
Misery loves company you know...


----------



## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Misery loves company you know...


The misery of others is my candy


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_You're very depressing to talk too...you people have to get out more. You have nothing but bad things to say all the time, and make fun of everyone. Maybe you are people whoe have low self-esteem...and lash out at others.
Misery loves company you know...


We *ONLY* make fun of you.


----------



## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (knappy)*

how can one person leave so many doors open and not expect someone to enter?
maybe if you weren't such an ignorant person you wouldn't get so much ridicule.
you have all these ideas and ventures you claim are gonna work, but i highly doubt you have the mental capacity to make any of them work, especially when you claim to be an ASE certified tech and know nothing about the workings of anything on a car.
...and don't get me started on your fast food pizza chain...
and then there is the crappy music


----------



## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_You're very depressing to talk too...you people have to get out more. You have nothing but bad things to say all the time, and make fun of everyone. Maybe you are people whoe have low self-esteem...and lash out at others.
Misery loves company you know...


No, please explain your psychodelic marketing skills as seen above in your CD cover...


----------



## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (joness0154)*

I can't believe why you would think we don't like you. There are alot of people on vortex that I would like to see involved in a fiery greyhound bus accident, you are not one of them. How else would I get my daily fill of retarded humour at work everyday. I think you should franchise yourself out, more of you would be interesting. I think everyone has to admit, we LOVE when we see you name on a topic...we all know that it's going to derail so bad and give us so many laughs it's not even funny.
That being said.....SHUTUP!


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

You know, Sabatosh, you're a pretty interesting subject in perception; your view on things is entirely different than the ones we hold. Normally I would consider this a noble aspect, however in your case I feel a gross bit of pity. Honestly, sincerely feel bad for you. Most cases where an individual rebels against the masses involve them postulating an idea(l) that is not concurant with the popular ways. Although in those cases, they don't involve someone touting their level of intelligence in regard to something involving particulars and technical facts: you need to learn some control, discipline.
Really, there's nothing wrong with being ambitious, you just go about it in the most anti-social way possible... which is an incredibly bad business policy. Sometimes when you think everyone _else_ has a problem, it's not them. It's you.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Sabby me old bean, what we know of you is based solely on what you type, you choose what you type, you portrayed yourself to us, this isn't school where people are picking on you for what you wear or look like.
You choose to stand up, shout and draw attention to yourself, nobody makes you do it. 
Did you know you have to be smart to get away with being a smart ass.
Anyway i don't think you're for real, i think you do all this for the attention based on the fact that any advertising is good advertising and you'll get to sell more Cd's, I think you should be ignored.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

I think of it this way, you cannot relate to me on a serious level, so you make everything rediculous for fun. Now that sure seems nice at first, but then it starts to sour and nothing positive is accomplished.
It's a matter of mixing business with pleasure, and you can't enjoy and have fun making discussions of serious things or they turn into a joke and nothing gets done. You guys just have to change your tune and act more sensible at sensible times and control yourselves from drawing fun into serious topics they don't belong.
There is a time and place for everything, and amusement is not the focus point of many discussions. I really could care less about cd sales, I mean it's not like you all are a bunch of good looking women, why do I need the attention? I certainly don't need the money...



_Modified by sabatosh at 7:40 AM 10-8-2005_


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

Read my post, re-read it, and then think about what you just said.
Seriously, it doesn't hurt to think, "Hey, maybe it's ME"
Everyone here at the beginning has tried to relate with you on a serious leve', and then you say something obnoxious along the line of 'they don't know what they're talking about'. Remember when I was trying to explain to you about synthetic oil and you called me a 'joke'?
But, you'll probably concede to none of this, once again, and continue to tout more garbage of your grandeur...
OK Mr. Holy, I think you have to learn some lessons about selflessness, delusions of grandeur, idol worship (yourself), vanity... shall I go on?


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

That's no excuse...I can defend my views all I want, that doesn't make it a joke. Maybe someone else is missing some part of the bigger picture. In many cases this is true....
As for your oil remark, I am running a full synthetic and I have absolutely no signs of leakage, on an engine with 150k. That's not a very contraversial subject, but there is always the person who wants to interject their point of view with superiority, even though it conflicts with the larger thesis.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_As for your oil remark, I am running a full synthetic and I have absolutely no signs of leakage, on an engine with 150k. That's not a very contraversial subject, but there is always the person who wants to interject their point of view with superiority, even though it conflicts with the larger thesis.


I haven't read the post on the oil, i suspect jazzbass240 said it wasn't advisable because it causes leaks in old engines? Was it?


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

yes, and any idiot knows it can..because it is cleaner and bites thru residues of dino oil sludge. But unless you have bad gaskets to begin with and slow oil leaks, then it's not usually a problem and can actually restore vitality to old seals with different additives.
I've been in the discussion of this many times, and it has always been said the synthetic is better and leaky seals is the least of your problems when looking at long term life of an engine. I mean I know for a fact people that have got way more miles off their engine just by switching to a synthetic later on in life.


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (Vdubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubs* »_I haven't read the post on the oil, i suspect jazzbass240 said it wasn't advisable because it causes leaks in old engines? Was it?

Exactly. And it does. I'll have to search for the thread, basically he was touting how great his engine was and that he was going to run synthetic, so I just interjected that there's really no point to it, explaining why, and then said that I was a 'joke' and can't know what I'm talking about, that I was pulling everyone's leg. Right. Sabatosh, I don't see why you think there's even a debate on it, if you'd do a quick google search online you'll find dozens of articles on the subject concurring with what I say. Do you have leakage immediately? Probably won't, but you'll get them soon enough, unless you consistenly change your seals.
I may be a moron, but when I say something I generally have good reason to say so, and have some sort of justification behind it.


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_yes, and any idiot knows it can..because it is cleaner and bites thru residues of dino oil sludge. But unless you have bad gaskets to begin with and slow oil leaks, then it's not usually a problem and can actually restore vitality to old seals with different additives.
I've been in the discussion of this many times, and it has always been said the synthetic is better and leaky seals is the least of your problems when looking at long term life of an engine. I mean I know for a fact people that have got way more miles off their engine just by switching to a synthetic later on in life.

What, what proof do you have of this comparrison? I want you to cite one bit of proof here to show me that I'm wrong, YOU YOURSELF SAY THAT YOU AGREE WITH ME. SO WHAT'S YOUR PROBLEM?
Tell me Sabatosh, if you're so up on this, you can explain to me the main 'thing' that's eliminated from synthetics that makes it 'cleaner'. Why don't you educate me with your greatness on what I obviously don't know.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jazzbass240* »_
Exactly. And it does. I'll have to search for the thread, basically he was touting how great his engine was and that he was going to run synthetic, so I just interjected that there's really no point to it, explaining why, and then said that I was a 'joke' and can't know what I'm talking about, that I was pulling everyone's leg. Right. Sabatosh, I don't see why you think there's even a debate on it, if you'd do a quick google search online you'll find dozens of articles on the subject concurring with what I say. Do you have leakage immediately? Probably won't, but you'll get them soon enough, unless you consistenly change your seals.
I may be a moron, but when I say something I generally have good reason to say so, and have some sort of justification behind it. 

You are 100% right and it's a well known fact, the fact that old sabby boy doesn't know is absolutely no surprise one bit, he isn't a mechanic, as he keeps making blatantly obvious with the ridicules comments he makes. I think he knows as much about cars as i do about deep sea diving.


----------



## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well I never said that it's not possible, in the thread I disclosed that I overhauled my engine gaskets before putting synthetic in.
Now then, synthetic has higher viscocity, and thus doesn't burn and leave gummy deposits and varnish like traditional motor oil. It stands up better to heat, cold and wear. It's a better oil, though it doesn't build up deposits to fill holes in an aging block or head, it still will increase the engines life after all.
So that is the point here this guy is an idiot saying that you coldly should not use synthetic for that reason. I mean changing some gaskets and seals is not a big deal to extend the life of an engine and cut down on frequency of changes.


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_
Now then, synthetic has higher viscocity, and thus doesn't burn and leave gummy deposits and varnish like traditional motor oil. It stands up better to heat, cold and wear. It's a better oil, though it doesn't build up deposits to fill holes in an aging block or head, it still will increase the engines life after all.
So that is the point here this guy is an idiot saying that you coldly should not use synthetic for that reason. I mean changing some gaskets and seals is not a big deal to extend the life of an engine and cut down on frequency of changes.

HAHAH!!!! Do you even realize what you just said??!!!







_I'm_ the idiot?! Hahahahahahah!! Oh man, where did you get your information from? I've never heard such a crock in my life! You've been watching too many late night infomercials for 'miracle lubes'.
Here, since you're so obviously knowledgabe, I'll point you in (one) of the right directions (because you were so incredibly dead off in your answer): parafins.
Is that the end all of the synthetic question? No. But if you had at least come out with some logical explanation (your logic is terribly flawed, put it in a formal formula and you'll see why [you should _reductio absurdum_ your head in my opinion before you even start making such accusations







])
You plainly have no idea what you're talking about, and yet continue to accuse those who at least have a clue utilizing nothing more than _argumentum ad hominem_. You're funny because you can't even handle the basics, my friend http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ synthetic has higher viscocity, and thus doesn't burn and leave gummy deposits and varnish like traditional motor oil. 

Ok, explain the difference between 10/40 syth and 10/40 mineral?


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

Vdubs, I'd like to hear him explain to me what the difference between 30w and 10w30 are dino to dino, hell, even just viscosity at all!


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*

All he has to do is read his notes from college when he was training to be ASE certified mechanic, oh no he can't i forgot, he lied about that.


----------



## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

I love this place..That is all. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

You really are a simpleton, paraffins is only a small part of why synthetics are better. Synthetics are more uniform molecules have better additives, aren't made of the same weak carbon structures that give it poor viscosity.

It's not worth my time to train for this, this really is the stupidest discussion in the world. Point blank synthetic oils are hands down better! There's no need to research or argue about it, in the overall aspect it's better for every single car. If you wanna plug your car with gunk from oil to hold it together be my guest.
You guys make a case of everything, and really just end up looking twice as stupid in the end. I don't care how many pointless hours you've spent studying oil, you're not gonna remember all that much the next day. Because it's not useful or practical to know....








All you have to know is that synthetic last longer, doesn't break down and sludge up, thus is cleaner and more durable. Sure it can leak more if your engine sucks...but who cares. That's just a minor thing to take into concideration.



_Modified by sabatosh at 2:22 PM 10-8-2005_


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_You really are a simpleton, paraffins is only a small part of why synthetics are better. Synthetics are more uniform molecules have better additives, aren't made of the same weak carbon structures that give it poor viscosity.

It's not worth my time to train for this, this really is the stupidest discussion in the world. Point blank synthetic oils are hands down better! There's no need to research or argue about it, in the overall aspect it's better for every single car. If you wanna plug your car with gunk from oil to hold it together be my guest.
You guys make a case of everything, and really just end up looking twice as stupid in the end. I don't care how many pointless hours you've spent studying oil, you're not gonna remember all that much the next day. Because it's not useful or practical to know....








All you have to know is that synthetic last longer, doesn't break down and sludge up, thus is cleaner and more durable. Sure it can leak more if your engine sucks...but who cares. That's just a minor thing to take into concideration. 


Ok lol, firstly we don't forget you sieve for brains muppet, secondly you seem to have completely overlooked a massive massive flaw to your synthetic is gods cum theory for all engines, old engines burn oil, they burn synthetic worse than mineral oil, therefore you putting $40 worth of Mobil 1 in your poor customers car with 150k on the clock is just ignorant and not doing them any favor at all, but then i imagine most of the work you do generates more work.


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Ohhh this'll be fun... I decided in each rebuttle I'll do you the favor of correcting for spelling, grammar, etc. etc. I guess all of your intellect was being used to accurately provide me with a sound logical explanation, without attacking my character http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_You really are a simpleton, 
 
Ok well there goes the whole 'making an argument without attacking the person' thing... onward...

_Quote »_paraffins *are* only a small part of why synthetics are better. *Synthetics molecules are more uniform and* have better additives, *and* aren't made of the same weak carbon structures that give it *[Dino oil]* poor viscosity. 

Obviously you are misinformed about viscosity, which can never be rated as 'good' or 'poor', since it directly is a measurement of how well some 'thing' can move through a passageway (to use extreme layman's terms). Apart from that, if you'd paid attention to my post above you would notice that I said "Are paraffins the only reason? No." But I guess you were too occupied intellectually to pick this up...

_Quote »_It's not worth my time to train for this, this really is the stupidest discussion in the world. Point blank synthetic oils are hands down better! There's no need to research or argue about it, *overall* aspect it's better for every single car. If you wanna plug your car with gunk from oil to hold it together be my guest.

So you're telling me that I should take a car with 200k miles, dump synthetic in, and expect it not to just leak everywhere? You seem to be missing the point that I initially started with, but, once again, you must've been too intellectually occupied...

_Quote »_You guys make a case of everything, and really just end up looking twice as stupid in the end. I don't care how many pointless hours you've spent studying oil, you're not gonna remember all that much the next day*, because* it's not useful or practical to know....








 
That may be your opinion, but it's a fact that you're also wrong in holding it. All knowledge is practical, only an idiot doesn't see that.

_Quote »_All you have to know is that synthetic last longer, doesn't break down,*or* sludge up *and* thus is cleaner and more durable. Sure it can leak more if your engine sucks...but who cares. That's just a minor thing to take into *consideration.*
_Modified by sabatosh at 2:22 PM 10-8-2005_

Rebuttle?


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Listen you can use a thicker synthetic oil just like with a petrol based oil if an engine is using it. The petrol is gonna be consumed faster because it burns easier. 
As I said leaking oil from seals is just a minor thing to concider because overhauling gaskets/seals is not a significant job. The fact an engine should be replaced or rebuilt to begin with when it's at such a sad point.
My basic point is you came into a thread where the circumstances were similar to those I've dealt with on my own engine. I suggested using a synthetic cause it worked for me after overhaul, and you suggested that it's worthless to do so.
In fact you said synthetic is only good on a brand new engine.
Point blank there is no arguement here. You guys are really drawing straws trying to come up with something to argue about, when there is clearly no case.


----------



## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

HOLY ****!!!!!!
One of your threads went 8 ***king pages without being locked......


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (madd92jettas)*

I think the mods gave up looking at his threads.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubs* »_I think the mods gave up looking at his threads.

Accck, the VW lounge is just the place for him...no one comes here except for us. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ As I said leaking oil from seals is just a minor thing to consider because overhauling gaskets/seals is not a significant job. The fact an engine should be replaced or rebuilt to begin with when it's at such a sad point.


Ok so you think it's fair to put syth in a perfectly good engine then tell the customer it needs a rebuild when it leaks because you put the wrong oil in, mmm ok.
And you think overhauling the seals is insignificant because you changed one or two, how about the cambelt breaking because the crank/inter/cam seal goes and oils the belt, how about the rear-main seal goes and destroys the clutch, add on the tow-in fee, the inconvenience, the hire car and you got one hell of a significant job, not to mention the car might get scrapped, you giving advice based on one car is not very constructive or helpfull when it's wrong. Daily you prove to everyone how limited your basic knowledge is.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Who's talking about customers, these people are not my customers that I said this too. If I had some customer come in with some old car that with a beat engine and I recommend switching to a synthetic obviously I would suggest it after a rebuild and would use that as an excuse to replace or rebuild the engine.
As I said I overhauled my engine and used synthetic without problems. You people sure don't get it....you really are that bored, you have nothing better to do, than argue about every detail of what I say and worst of all engine oil.
I mean damn come on already...you're not winning anything here. You're not gaining any ground...


----------



## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

I'm done with argueing with you sabby.....
You just suck at life


----------



## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jettas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jettas* »_I'm done with argueing with you sabby.....
You just suck at life

X2


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

We were never going to win anything, that's like reading a story to a dog and expecting it do recite it back, it's just not going to happen, lost cause, you're well and truly incurable, you'll learn in your own way oneday, and i for one couldn't care less, i am sat here with nothing better to do thanks, just chilling and surfing while watching tv, that's what you get from hard work, free time to waste on anything or anyone, thanks for asking tho your concern is noted and very touching. 
By the way, why are you on here replying to all this nonsense when you have businesses to start.


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Hahahaha! We're supposed to believe that you rebuilt your engine when you think that painting your hood black caused your starter to be affected by 'heat soak'?
Perception's an interesting thing, ain't it buddy? How exactly did you rebuild this engine anyway? What spec's did you do it to? How'd you mic the crankshaft? What kind of bearing endplay did you get? What kind of cylinder hone did you use? What rate of compression did your piston return springs measure out to? C'mon man, throw me some details, I'm sitting here with a whole bottle of ****ty sake just waiting to hear


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*

micing,bearing end play, cylinder hone, ....what are these things you speak of?


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

Beats the hell outta me, I was hoping he could enlighten me, as I'm an unworthy simpleton.
P.S.: I have a headache, that was a good night.


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## SteveMKIIDub (Nov 6, 2003)

This thread is RETARDED.
Care to disagree? IM me!


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (SteveMKIIDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SteveMKIIDub* »_This thread is RETARDED.
Care to disagree? IM me!

To quote a 14 year old girl from California in 1996, "Welllll DUUUUHHHHH"


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Why is this thread retarded? Because it's full of retards is obviously the answer. Back to topic I see a lot of official factory cds for cars with the flatrate labor quotes and all the info the bentley manuals leave out. I think I should get some of these...
One thing I am looking into right now is also being able to work on BMW's since it would be a lot of reprogramming it would probably be more suited for oncall service. But a lot of the more advanced parts of the service would be recoding modules and such, which would be difficult without proper maintenance.
I do see factory manual cd roms for BMW series complete going for very cheap also though. I just wonder how in depth they are about all the computing parts. I know the actual equipment to do this is rather expensive, and will set me back a few grand.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

WTF are you going to reprogram?


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## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

hopefully his brain


----------



## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (joness0154)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joness0154* »_hopefully his brain

ERROR...Your process can not be completed due to lack of memory.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

BMW's need a lot of coding done...for weird problems.


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## SteveMKIIDub (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: (madd92jettas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jettas* »_
ERROR...Your process can not be completed due to lack of memory.









nice one


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_BMW's need a lot of coding done...for weird problems.

On WHAT? GIVE ONE DAMN EXAMPLE. OK Sab, tell me, I've got a 2.8l I6 in my 528e, 1987, what sort of problems should I pay attention to in the head? Computer issues? Just FRIGGIN REPLACE IT. Re-programming = totally unecessary unless you have some very damn expensive equipment.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.
http://www.bba-reman.com/conte...s_bmw
You have a really old model, it obviously is not going to requre a lot of reprogramming. At the BMW dealership I worked at they had computer cables and ports bus'ed off the walls to plug into the cars, cause there is so much you have to do with coding after various repairs. It's somewhat of a security feature, and somewhat to allow for upgrades and performance, or to tweak out problems.
Like you can change the oil on some of the newer BMW's and it won't start, because of various security features, they really are all computers anymore. You don't even do as much mechanical work, it's a lot of reprogramming. Mechanically they will go 100k before they need any real work anymore. But there's always some code that needs resetting, and some security feature causing a problem. 
It's easy to work around these things with reference from the dealer computers, but I dunno where to get that information otherwise. Maybe some factory manuals would have everything. But at the dealer the problems are actually sent to a guy over in Germany, and he sends back what service to be done, you don't really do any diagnosis. But it will be something weird like reprogram this, and they all have different various platforms that they are computed on, even though they may look exactly the same.
You mess them up and you're screwed...



_Modified by sabatosh at 7:00 AM 10-10-2005_


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

The stuff at dealers is dealer specific, it's constantly updated through feedback from all the technicians throughout the dealer network worldwide, you can't have it if you're not a dealer, a dealer invests millions in a site to get that sort of support, you don't think they give that away, do you?

Even if you buy the best money can buy you still wont get any support, all you'll ever do is reinstall a code on an ecu when you change it, providing you could read it before you change it, and even then you'll need the shop manual (for each model) for the process on how to do it, no scanners have directions on how to do it, they're all 3rd party programs that were created by reverse engineering. 
Your ideas are great ideas only everyone else already thought of them and it's just not that easy. We all want to do the easy work when we want to do it, we all want to do diagnosis with the proper kit and info, if you could just buy a laptop and a program for a few hundred $ that fixes everything we'd all be doing it. 
It costs a fortune to get all the basic stuff you need let alone the specialist stuff, how much are you thinking of spending this year in equipment?
Just like your pizza idea, how much do you think it costs to set up just 1 shop and run it for a year?



_Modified by Vdubs at 3:44 PM 10-10-2005_


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## bigteal (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

wow, my head hurts from reading this. after 8 pages, it obvious that nothing is gonna get through to this dude. maybe sabatosh can't understand english to well. try something differant. let me demonstrate: durk durk sha durka durk mahammad ali. 
now i will wait for a response.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (bigteal)*

Ummmm, yahtzee?


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well this is why I am not focusing a lot on BMW's cause they have too many weird comp problems. But for general repairs and stuff I was looking at getting the complete factory service manuals for BMW's. I dunno....but I must have helped advise people how to fix a few dozen problems today on BMW and VW cars.
It's pretty easy...and the more tools you have the better. I'm optimistic about the launch of my business, and I am constantly studying various problems that owners are having at a regular basis to be aware of real life fixes, not just book smart essays.
There's actually a hotline now you can call up and it's compiled from a huge database of inquiries on various mainstream problems in cars, and they'll tell you whats wrong with it, based on other car problems. Mind you there's always the weird problems, where it definately helps to study and understand the system, and you'd only want to use this luxury service when at a dead end.
But there's plenty of tools and data out there beyond what the dealer has, believe that!


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*sigh* wow. All of that and you still couldn't respond to my question involving a simple lookup procedure to find that they have head stud problems.
God help your customers.


----------



## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_
But there's plenty of tools and data out there beyond what the dealer has, believe that!


No there isn't, have you seen the dealer tool list? 
Where do you know that sells more than what the dealer has?


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubs* »_Where do you know that sells more than what the dealer has?

I bought all mine from this guy I know...He'll sell you anything you want, 
directions: Just go past the little people down the yellow brick road and ask for the wizard. He'll hook you up lovely. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (madd92jettas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jettas* »_I bought all mine from this guy I know...He'll sell you anything you want, 
directions: Just go past the little people down the yellow brick road and ask for the wizard. He'll hook you up lovely. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Will he throw in a pepperoni pizza and a record deal to sweeten the lot up?


----------



## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*

He'll throw in the pizza and a hot air ballon ride home......


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

There's a lot of used tools from a VW dealer selling at samstagsales.com 5k that's like any tool you could possibly ever need. Believe me when I tell you that the dealers don't even use most of their special tools.
When I worked at dealers everyone had an improvization for tools. No one used jack that they were supposed too, hardly ever. A lot of the tools are for convenience and speed, ease, and there's ways around them. Just look at the people on these forums you think they have a million special tools?
Hell no but they can get plenty of jobs done...knock off tools aren't that pricey either.


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

No kidding, scheisskoph, he didn't say that people don't improvise, he stated that you said that there are plenty of tools out there beyond what the dealer has. He told you that you were stupid, and with your last comment you just agreed with him by saying that the dealer has an extensive set of tools.
For crikes sake, you told someone that the hood latch from an A2 GTI wouldn't fit on an A2 Jetta hood. Stop while you're ahead, or continue and give us more fodder.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

jazz bass, i have had to change hood latches on hoods. I have seen that some of them are different, this may be his problem. It wouldn't hurt to try, as they do vary. Some have 8mm bolts holding them onto the hood and other 10mm.
The dealer computers aren't a great resource is all I'm trying to say. They can have some recall bulletin info. But any good mechanic can narrow down the problem and approach it. It may make it a bit easier when the solution isn't typical, but those are the last thing you have to worry about.


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (jazzbass240)*

I get dumber everytime I read your posts. That comment about the hood latch was the stupidest thing to come out of a so called "mechanics" mouth. I have well over 200k in tools and about 15k of them are VW special tools. I've used all of them and will continue to. If you think you are going to run a buisness and dont have the right tools, you are crazy. What are you gonna tell the customer when you are working on there car and have to wait for a tool to fix it?


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_jazz bass, i have had to change hood latches on hoods. I have seen that some of them are different, this may be his problem. It wouldn't hurt to try, as they do vary. Some have 8mm bolts holding them onto the hood and other 10mm.



Sorry to tell you but you ARE DEAD WRONG pal. They are rivited from the factory. If they have bolts they were replaced. They are all the same. ETKA lists 1 part number for hood latches. Don't make me post the screen from ETKA.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

That's bs, the part it hooks onto in the headlight support is riveted, but not the spring and latch on the hood. That is bolted on, on every last car I've ever seen. As far as tools go, yes the people are going to have to wait a bit if I don't have a tool, because I'm just starting out. They can't expect everything, I mean for real...I'll just tell them to take it elsewhere if that's a problem, let them pay at least twice as much if the repair work needed is urgent. I can't possibly have every tool...and like I said most of them are convenience tools, or tools rarely needed.
I have a 150$ tool that's a special Matra clamp to lift the rear of the engine up to pull out 096 trans. I didn't even use the thing when I did my passat trans. It's could make the repair go smoother and easier I guess, with the bridge and all hooked up. But I just used a floor jack and block of wood.

I mean I'm not greedy, I'm content making 4k a month, so I don't have to take a lot of work to do that. I just like being independent for the flexible schedule and not having corrupt management over my shoulder. Plus I get to do things my way, not according to some dumb asses check sheet. Not in it to make a huge business, and be overworked..in fact I wanna get out of this business and launch my music career.
This is just to help fund my music career...cause it's expensive to sponsor yourself, and you have to sponsor yourself when you have perhaps somewhat offensive and very original music. It's a temp career...I'm not trying to make this my life.


_Modified by sabatosh at 4:16 PM 10-10-2005_


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

dude....i remember you thinking wolfsburg jetta hoods were different from a normal VW hood......
You have no damm clue what you are saying a majority of the time and this thread just proves it.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

mmm...that was just an afterthought, cause I never seen a jetta wolfburg and I forgot that the ones in that yard were Foxes. But seriously...the spring and latches are different for certain models. I had a wrong styled one and it wouldn't close right...
Hood are identical, and the headlight supports are interchangeable. I am not sure what the design of the hood latch varies, but I think it varies in response additionally to the hood release cable. One has a fatter spring I believe...not sure, but I've seen differences.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Not in MK2's.....dammit. The MK1 latch is different from a MK2, maybe that's what you're thinking


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

ETKA again proves you wrong. The peice that bolts to the hood are all the same part numbers. The reason you didn't use that tool is cuz you dont know how to use it. I dont know where you get your info from but you are the stupidest person I've ever seen on here.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

Well ETKA is wrong!!! You people are obsessive, you love to argue about every detail. If I still had the latch I'd send it to you and you would see the spring stop is bigger.


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Tell that to VW and they will laugh in your face. You can think what you wanna think but they are all the same.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*

ACCCKKKKK!


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (knappy)*

No it's true, they are different, it depends what color the hood is, the various paint colors used have different specific gravities, as a result there are different spring rates, i believe there are 13 different springs, white are the lightest spring going up to the metallic gold that has a spring like a valve spring due to the weight of the gold.
When you order it it's important to give the correct color code or you could end up with the wrong spring. Often people have difficulty after a respray when they change color cus they forget to order the appropriate spring.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubs)*

BWWHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
Thank you for the clarification Vdubs


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

It's just not true...I've seen a lot of mkII's at the Jersey scrapyard that had different sized bolts. Some had 8mm others had 10mm and the spring latch was just a bit different, I looked at them side by side, almost exactly the same.
So I have to laugh in your face, cause these weren't MKI's.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

You're an idiot......


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## Vdubs (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_It's just not true...I've seen a lot of mkII's at the Jersey scrapyard that had different sized bolts. Some had 8mm others had 10mm and the spring latch was just a bit different, I looked at them side by side, almost exactly the same.
So I have to laugh in your face, cause these weren't MKI's.









That'll be the lhd and rhd versions, we open the hood with our left hand and press the button with the right, you guys aren't allowed to do it like that (some law in 1737) you have to do it the other way.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

It's just a variation plain and simple, if you haven't seen it then, I think you should look around more. I was very suprised by this myself, but I went out and bought a spring latch cause mine was broken, and it didn't work. I remember mine was 10mm and I brought a 10 mm wrench with me expecting, but damn it was 8mm and so were a lot of them. And no I didn't get it off a Fox or MKI.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

The bolt size doesn't fu**ing matter you dumbass. WTF is wrong with your head?


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

I must be retarded argueing this factoid with you people. Not only the bolt size but it varied just believe it, the friggin' thing didn't work. It wouldn't open with it in no matter which was I used it. It would get stuck...and was hard to close, cause the spring was wider guage.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

It was hard to close because you didn't have it aligned correctly. Thanks for calling


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

That's not true, I tried to align it a million ways, and when I pulled it out for comparison it was different. Just believe it or don't, don't argue about it, just say yeah maybe it's different. I mean who cares...I suppose I fantasized the whole thing.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Here's my new girlfriend and she agrees with me..100%. So who's wrong?


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## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

That girl isnt going to like you posting her pic on the internet and you claiming shes your girlfriend. Dont you think you have taken this a little to far? I mean why would posting a picture of your "girlfriend" on the internet make us think you are right about a hoodlatch? I cannot believe how far you are taking this, just give it up we all know your a joke.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Here's my new girlfriend and she agrees with me..100%. So who's wrong? 

2 wrongs don't a make a right


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

No she is and we agree, and so does someone else, that's 3 people. Even if we were wrong, 3 wrongs has to make a right..


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

wow...you're really stretching now buddy.


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_No she is and we agree, and so does someone else, that's 3 people. Even if we were wrong, 3 wrongs has to make a right..


funny i have the same chick on MYSPACE, and she thinks your an idiot


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*

lol, this thread just gets better and better


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## jazzbass240 (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (madd92jettas)*


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## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_I must be retarded argueing this factoid with you people. Not only the bolt size but it varied just believe it, the friggin' thing didn't work. It wouldn't open with it in no matter which was I used it. It would get stuck...and was hard to close, cause the spring was wider guage.


first of all do you even have the right part? i'm not entirely sure you know what the difference between a hood latch and a spark plug.
second..........did you say factiod.......what is this? the sci-fi channel
P.S. check my sig for the answer to who is right in this argument







you are such an retard and must be killed



_Modified by 91_Jetta_GL_8v at 6:09 AM 10-11-2005_


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

That chick is an oversized dog...I'm just kidding..I have some new girls..
I don't care what you people say, I seen it with my own eyes. Maybe it was a fluke of some sort..but it didn't fit and I got the part from the scrapyard off an mkII.


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Your sister dont count.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

My half-sister is actually pregnant, it's ashame she wasn't moraled like me. 14 yrs old and 6month pregnant with some school flings child. I mean she hardly knew the kid...she picked up the stubborn boldness from her father who isn't mine. I seen it coming, she always had a very bold attitude.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Hey...She said she was on the pill....Don't come crying to me.


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jettas)*

Bwhahahahahaha. In-Breeeeeeeder.


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## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_My half-sister is actually pregnant, it's ashame she wasn't moraled like me. 14 yrs old and 6month pregnant with some school flings child. I mean she hardly knew the kid...she picked up the stubborn boldness from her father who isn't mine. I seen it coming, she always had a very bold attitude.

hey man don't nock her morals, you should have worn a condom


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## VegasJetta (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_Well ETKA is wrong!!!

thats 2 sigworthy quotes from this guy...
I cant belive that he thinks the FACTORY parts catalog is wrong. 
simply amazing.. what a turcoon!


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (VegasJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VegasJetta* »_
thats 2 sigworthy quotes from this guy...
I cant belive that he thinks the FACTORY parts catalog is wrong. 
simply amazing.. what a turcoon! 

X2


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (VegasJetta)*

Turcoons own you now vegas!


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## aintgotsnogarage (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: (knappy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *knappy* »_
OSD#12...Please Ban Sabatosh!!!


For the love of God, don't! I would really, really, really miss reading his peculiar brand of satire. I think he may be pioneering a new sort of audience participation internet comedy act. 
Not to mention he may be onto something here:
He delivers one of Good Girl's Groovin' Pizzas to a customer and checks out the cars parked in the driveway/around the neighborhood. If the area's low-rent and desperate, he finds a german car and pre-emptively "fixes" it later that night, after posting flyers for his wandering mechanic business. The hapless sauerkrautburner driver finds the flyer and calls Sabby in desperate need of a cheap repair. After Sab gives up, but before the tow truck arrives, he pulls out his guitar and serenades an increasingly irate customer. When the tow truck shows up, The Sabby one hands his customer a pamphlet about his church, and heads off to find another victim.
It's foolproof!


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## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (aintgotsnogarage)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aintgotsnogarage* »_
For the love of God, don't! I would really, really, really miss reading his peculiar brand of satire. I think he may be pioneering a new sort of audience participation internet comedy act. 
Not to mention he may be onto something here:
He delivers one of Good Girl's Groovin' Pizzas to a customer and checks out the cars parked in the driveway/around the neighborhood. If the area's low-rent and desperate, he finds a german car and pre-emptively "fixes" it later that night, after posting flyers for his wandering mechanic business. The hapless sauerkrautburner driver finds the flyer and calls Sabby in desperate need of a cheap repair. After Sab gives up, but before the tow truck arrives, he pulls out his guitar and serenades an increasingly irate customer. When the tow truck shows up, The Sabby one hands his customer a pamphlet about his church, and heads off to find another victim.
It's foolproof!








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

If my sister was even a quarter as hot as me I'd bang her. But unfortunately my older sister is a fat witch, and my younger is the autistic genes of her father. hehehe...Who I kicked the guys ass many a times. But my mother always stood up for him, cause she's a fat bitch, I've practically disowned my family, they aren't like me at all.
My grandma and uncle, and my dad is cool, my other grandma, all the people that live here in PA are 100% better. My Jersey family can bite my balls, they are a bunch of 4ss holes


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

There are soooooooo many things just WRONG with this post it's not even funny.

_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_If my *sister* was even a quarter as hot as me I'd *bang her*. But unfortunately my older sister is a fat witch, and my younger is the autistic genes of her father. hehehe...Who I kicked the guys ass many a times. But my mother always stood up for him, cause she's a fat bitch, I've practically disowned my family, they aren't like me at all.
My grandma and uncle, and my dad is cool, my other grandma, all the people that live here in PA are 100% better. My Jersey family can bite my balls, they are a bunch of 4ss holes


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


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## aintgotsnogarage (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: (madd92jettas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madd92jettas* »_There are soooooooo many things just WRONG with this post it's not even funny.


Or do we just not get the humor? This guy works on a whole different plane than the rest of us.
Keep sending us your reports from the moon, Sabby. The moon, eh? Now that gives me an idea...


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## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_If my sister was even a quarter as hot as me I'd bang her. But unfortunately my older sister is a fat witch, and my younger is the autistic genes of her father. hehehe...Who I kicked the guys ass many a times. But my mother always stood up for him, cause she's a fat bitch, I've practically disowned my family, they aren't like me at all.
My grandma and uncle, and my dad is cool, my other grandma, all the people that live here in PA are 100% better. My Jersey family can bite my balls, they are a bunch of 4ss holes


You're kidding me.
Your family disowned you


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

No I hated my mother long time now, cause she married some *** bag and there's been tension ever since. I never even attended her wedding when I was 14. I never really even lived with her, cause she's a dumb bitch. She can go f uk herself for all I care. I hate to talk or even think about her too much, I can tolerate her, but she's like a jealous older sister competeing all the time.
She's in to make me fall not help me...she's a selfish cold person, I never liked her. My grandmother is more of a real mother to me. My mother can't help herself out let anyone else, she's just a big dope.


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## SoCal_GLI (Jun 21, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

there are some things that are better left unsaid. 
there is absolutely no reason to tell us your pesonal history, after all it is a private matter and none of our business.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

yeah I guess, but I don't mind glorifying the fact my family is a bunch of losers.
Anyhow back to topic, I got some business insurance quotes, and it isn't gonna be all that much to kickstart my business. They are talking $1500-$2500 for a year of business insurance.
I expect to be really busy, and I should make a lot of money. I just wanna make sure people are gonna take to my oncall service, that will mean very strong demand, and I will try to find the best shop in the area with the most demand.
There's a few so...things can work out fast if there's enuff business out there.


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## madd92jettas (Oct 7, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_ I got some business insurance quotes, and it isn't gonna be all that much to kickstart my business. They are talking $1500-$2500 for a year of business insurance.



Who's your insurance company.....because, that's stupidly low for insurance for the business that you are trying to get into.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

I didn't sign up with any yet, I have a few offers. This is just what my broker I guess you'd call it is bargaining for me. There's a lot of incentives for businesses to come into this area. 
It's not really that low concidering you can get car insurance for like 200$ a year here.


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## rthall003 (Sep 8, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*

Man, usually i'm like the first person to totally rip someone a new ******* (in any situation) if they CONTINUALLY make themselves out to be a dickwad time after time. But for some reason, I feel so bad for you that I just can't really bring myself to do it, i guess. Honestly, though, you should get some kind of psychological evaluation.
I'm gonna put my money on "visions of grandeur" for diagnosis, guys.


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## sabatosh (Oct 22, 2004)

hmmmm......no I am legally insane, I'll grant you that. But there's nothing wrong with being a psychopath in the modern world


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## bigteal (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


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## TRLSTYLE (Sep 27, 2004)

*Re: (SoCal_GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCal_GLI* »_tell me again where reverse is









i forgot that was him...hehe








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2178581


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## SteveMKIIDub (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: (rthall003)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rthall003* »_Man, usually i'm like the first person to totally rip someone a new ******* (in any situation) if they CONTINUALLY make themselves out to be a dickwad time after time. But for some reason, I feel so bad for you that I just can't really bring myself to do it, i guess. Honestly, though, you should get some kind of psychological evaluation.
I'm gonna put my money on "visions of grandeur" for diagnosis, guys.

Exactly what I was going to say...
Sabatosh =


























































http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NOSPEED411 (Jul 7, 2002)

*Re: (SteveMKIIDub)*

_I don't perticularly care what sort of money I make with my business I'm lucky in that respect. I'm not burnt out with a 40 hour work week, to eat up working on my own, just to get by. I am already pretty rich, so I am content with my business even if I pull in $400 or $100 a month.
I mean I'm set for life, I have millions of dollars my own house, lots of friends and girlfriends, cars and brains.
_
This is a quote from another post mister fuktard made. 
MILLIONAIRE.....aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalollololololololollloollol..cough...cough...









Well if you are never going to leave the tex or my planet I will be giving this out at the next get together . It may also be purchased at my website for $.99 each ....FREE SHIPPING.

_Modified by NOSPEED411 at 9:14 PM 10-26-2005_


_Modified by NOSPEED411 at 9:22 PM 10-26-2005_


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## joness0154 (Feb 20, 2003)

*Re: (NOSPEED411)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOSPEED411* »_ _I don't perticularly care what sort of money I make with my business I'm lucky in that respect. I'm not burnt out with a 40 hour work week, to eat up working on my own, just to get by. I am already pretty rich, so I am content with my business even if I pull in $400 or $100 a month.
I mean I'm set for life, I have millions of dollars my own house, lots of friends and girlfriends, cars and brains.
_
This is a quote from another post mister fuktard made. 
MILLIONAIRE.....aaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalollololololololollloollol..cough...cough...










_Modified by NOSPEED411 at 9:14 PM 10-26-2005_

Man, if this guy was a 'millionaire' he wouldnt be recording his **** on ****ty music. He wouldnt' be trying to sell his passat for 10k. He would have his own 'shop' to 'work' on peoples cars, etc.
He's full of crap. They need to wrap him up in a straight jacket and display him in town square for our enjoyment. Maybe poke him with sticks and such.


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## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_hmmmm......no I am legally insane, I'll grant you that. But there's nothing wrong with being a psychopath in the modern world









make that 3 sig worthy quotes


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## knappy (Apr 6, 2005)

*Re: (91_Jetta_GL_8v)*

Already got it.


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## cpermd (Oct 25, 2002)

*Dear Lord*

Please let this thread die.
It will be as good as the time I finally pulled my hand out of that damn garbage disposal.


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## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: Dear Lord (cpermd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cpermd* »_Please let this thread die.
It will be as good as the time I finally pulled my hand out of that damn garbage disposal.









no way this thread has been going for like 2 months now. that's got to be a record for the old sab.


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## SteveMKIIDub (Nov 6, 2003)

I think sab's banned. That makes me sad, he was good for a laugh, and his music I dled (I think it was his) was l ike a bear cub tangled up in a guitar.. pure boombastic bliss!


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## JettaMatt (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: (SteveMKIIDub)*

No he is back, I am thinking the guy named "No Dice" is sabatosh. Just a feeling though.


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## 91_Jetta_GL_8v (Oct 1, 2005)

*Re: (sabatosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sabatosh* »_yeah I guess, but I don't mind glorifying the fact my family is a bunch of losers.


i guess the apple really doesn't fall far from the tree


----------

