# Trouble w/air. Basic management (paddle switches) Not working on bags.



## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

I have everything installed right & everything turns on but I can't get the switches to get the bags up. I have all lines ran & connected, the tanks filled up, not sure what else it could be. I had found a diagram for a set up so that the switches are used as 1 - front up, 2 - rear up, 3 - front down (dump), 4 - rear down (dump). You can very slightly hear like the air wants to be sent through the switch when you press it but nothing happens. Any ideas?


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## a2lowvw (Dec 17, 2000)

if everything was hooked up right it would work. are you using manual paddle valves or electronic valves with switches? 

if your using manual paddle valves you should only have 2 switches. press switch up car raises, hold switch down car lowers. 

draw up a pic of how the air lines are ran


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## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

Manual, & all the ways I saw needed 4 switches. 2 for up & 2 for dump. I'll draw up how they look in a minute.


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## VRtotheSix (May 12, 2008)

Are the paddles themselfs backwards?


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## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

What do you mean? Like supply is demand & vice verca?


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## SuperBacon (May 8, 2006)

VRtotheSix said:


> Are the paddles themselfs backwards?


 That's what I was thinking. Maybe the paddles are upside down? Not sure if that would cause a problem or not


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## rockin16v (Aug 31, 2001)

yes - that would cause it. 

SUP = supply 
DEL = delivery


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## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

Hmm ok, I knewwhat sup & dem was but maybe I connected them backwards, ill check in a bit.


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

if you are using paddle valves then each valve would control one corner, Both up and down. Not two for up and two for down. You need a feed into each valve and each valve would feed a corner. I feel like you have two feeds into one paddle.


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## bagged_hag (Oct 30, 2005)

J.Owen said:


> if you are using paddle valves then each valve would control one corner, Both up and down. Not two for up and two for down. You need a feed into each valve and each valve would feed a corner. I feel like you have two feeds into one paddle.


 Sounds like that is what is happending here, each paddle will feed a corner like he said. Check that first, if it was installed "backwards" then it should be as simple as down would then be up and up would then be down. However, I don't believe that is the case, I think he has all 4 feed lines running into two of the 4 switches, and all 4 dump lines running to the other 2 switches. Make sure you have one line to fill the bag and one line to dump the bag PER switch!


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## Deceitful (Sep 30, 2005)

one paddle per corner. it's a 2 way switch.


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## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

But I've seen write ups where it's 4 switches but as both front & both rear, not singles. I used the same idea I saw from a diagram, only difference is I have 1 port from my tank so it's like this...


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## a2lowvw (Dec 17, 2000)

so the switches should have 2/3 ports on the back one is a supply line to the switch (middle) the upper port is for fill and some have a connection for dump which is the bottom port 










this is one of the easiest manual valve routings


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

Yeh, that's way off. I'm on my phone but someone else can explain.


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## Ben from RI (Jun 5, 2009)

no help here- Just glad to see you got the car the setup like you wanted :thumbup: can't wait to see whats next


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## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

Right, supply comes from the tank & then del goes to the bags. So isn't that set up right?


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## rabriolet (May 27, 2005)

Dude you are SO far off with how that is setup. First of all, if you are using ONE paddle to control BOTH fronts and ONE paddle to control BOTH rears it should look like this: 











But preferably you would want 1 line to each paddle valve to run each individual bag. If you insist on running 2 paddle valves atleast run an independent line to each one so that your fill is a little quicker.


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## bagged_hag (Oct 30, 2005)

Brownie1524 said:


> Right, supply comes from the tank & then del goes to the bags. So isn't that set up right?


 Set it up like this, put 1 supply line to each switch, then 1 delivery line from each switch to one of the 4 bags and try that, if results happen, then fill us in, the general concensus is that 1 switch=1 corner of the car, so why not give that a shot? 

Edit for Rabriolet beating me to it, but yeah he has the right diagram there, yours seemed way off, but go off of rabriolets diagram there and you should be golden if you insist on running it that way


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## nap83 (Jun 24, 2007)

rabriolet said:


> you are using ONE paddle to control BOTH fronts and ONE paddle to control BOTH rears.


 .


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## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks Rabriolet. I saw that diagram from somebody who obviously has it working since it's in his car lol but Idk how. I was figuring on redoing them how you just posted so I'll try that today & see.


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## Brownie1524 (Aug 30, 2010)

Well I got it situated, but now I just got little kinks to work out. The rear bags are leaking. I hit the switch up & you can just hear the air pouring out, but that's something minor now to figure out.


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

Hey Brownie, what's up man? 

I think it's worth it to run all four paddle valves if you want the car to feel sporty and you don't want a lot of body roll. Just my 2 cents.


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## bagged_hag (Oct 30, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Hey Brownie, what's up man?
> 
> I think it's worth it to run all four paddle valves if you want the car to feel sporty and you don't want a lot of body roll. Just my 2 cents.


 Fantastic point Will, by running one switch to two corners of the car, the corners will "share" the air between them, thus allowing air to transfer from the side to side under loads and causing the car to feel very mooshy around corners. The reason why I upgraded to the AccuAir manifold so each corner could have its own air, it's a vast improvement over a 4 valve set up, which is more or less what you are setting up here. It will work, but don't expect to corner like you did on coils


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## rabriolet (May 27, 2005)

Ok I've been trying to figure this out for awhile and I'm sure its a stupid question with a simple answer......... 


What is the difference in a 4 valve and 8 valve setup? 

If you use 4 valves with 1 air line dedicated for each valve for each bag what are the other 4 valves for? Im sure it's a simple answer but hey...never know until you ask.


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## bagged_hag (Oct 30, 2005)

With a 4 valve set up, 1 of the valves supplies air to two bags and one of the valves is the dump valve for both of those bags, therefore 2 bags run off of one vavle that supplies both, however in an 8 valve set up each bag has 1 valve to supply the air and 1 valve to dump the air, thus allowing each corner to have it's own air supply and not having to share it with another portion of the suspension. Hope this clarifies it up for you rabriolet


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## rabriolet (May 27, 2005)

bagged_hag said:


> With a 4 valve set up, 1 of the valves supplies air to two bags and one of the valves is the dump valve for both of those bags, therefore 2 bags run off of one vavle that supplies both, however in an 8 valve set up each bag has 1 valve to supply the air and 1 valve to dump the air, thus allowing each corner to have it's own air supply and not having to share it with another portion of the suspension. Hope this clarifies it up for you rabriolet


 Nope still has me confused haha. 

1 paddle = 1 valve 

1 valve controls 1 bag 

4 paddles = independent control of each corner 

How does air get shared between bags that way? 

Same question goes for if you are using actual valves vs the paddle valve. If you have 1 valve running each bag how will they share air supply? Im probably missing something really simple


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## bagged_hag (Oct 30, 2005)

Okay, let me try and explain this a little bit more clearly because I will admit it wasn't as clear as it could being that I typed it while simotaneously trying to take notes in my wellness class, haha. Okay with a 4 valve set up what you have is obviously only 4 valves, there would be two valves that are used for air going to the bag, so what that means is that you run one supply line from the valve to a t-fitting and them from the t-fitting you branch off those two lines and run one to each bag up front or out back. Using that t-fitting for the air source means that both bags would share a "common" air source. By doing this the bags would literally share the air coming from that one valve. So off of both of the "up" valves you run a single supply line that has to be split to go to 2 bags thus making the air shared. The other 2 valves would be considered the dump valves, not really much explanation is needed there, the air that is shared between the 2 front or 2 rear bags would be dumped simotaneously. So running only a 4 valve set up limits you to running a FB switch set up and that's it. However, when it comes to an 8 valve set up, you would then have 4 fill valves and 4 dump valves, meaning one for each corner. So each bag at each corner of the car would have its own supply line coming from a valve. Since the supply line ends at the valve and the valve is closed when not operating the air is then trapped between that valve and the bag thus making the sharing of air between bags impossible. So basically long story short, a 4 valve set up has only 2 "fill" valves and 2 "dump" valves and an 8 valve set up has 4 "fill" valves and 4 "dump" valves. Does this make more sense?


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## rabriolet (May 27, 2005)

:thumbup: 

thats what i figured, but i could never figure out why I see some people running 8 individual valves like these: 










I'm guessing 1 is fill 1 is dump? 


Like this setup:


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## spitfire481 (Mar 21, 2007)

yea, one fill and one dump per bag.


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## Jar717 (Jan 14, 2008)

Brownie1524 said:


> But I've seen write ups where it's 4 switches but as both front & both rear, not singles. I used the same idea I saw from a diagram, only difference is I have 1 port from my tank so it's like this...


 although i find this a dumb way(my opinion) to run your lines/paddles/gauges.. it should still fill your bags. you'd also have two ways to dump.


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## no vtec 4me (Aug 1, 2006)

1 manual paddle valve = 2 electric solenoid valves 


That's why you're confused


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## Jar717 (Jan 14, 2008)

no vtec 4me said:


> 1 manual paddle valve = 2 electric solenoid valves
> 
> 
> That's why you're confused


 this:thumbup:


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## NDubber (Sep 11, 2006)

rab, with brass valves like you pictured, it takes 1 valve to fill the bag and 1 valve to dump the air.


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## bagged_hag (Oct 30, 2005)

NDubber said:


>


 As you can see in this diagram Rab, which is a 4 valve set up, the bags would share the air off of one valve! It would work but it makes for a mooshy ride! This is why I would highly advise Brownie to rethink his paddle valve set up, if he would use one paddle vavle, which can do both the filling and dumping needs for one bag, at one corner then he would imitate an 8 valve set up. The way it is right now would simulate a 4 valve set up! Hope it all works out brownie :thumbup:


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## rabriolet (May 27, 2005)

Got it :thumbup:


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