# Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap!



## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

I've been thinking about this lately, I have a 85 CGT and a 00 S4. the S4 has been getting all the love recently since its the new car but I want to start making the GT more fun now. I've obviously got a lot of questions and just need the help of the experienced old audi guys. the motor I've been thinking about is a SOHC 2.2L turbo 5cyl out of a 1989 200.
I basically just need to know for now if its a direct swap, and what else is needed (fueling, etc.) to work in the CGT? and is $800 too much to pay for the 2.2T motor with 79K miles?(that is $300 more than I paid for the car)








lets give this old FWD some love!!
















as always thanks for the replys guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

so it looks like all the 10vt's are fairly easy to swap. I've found both the older 10vt with the k26 and the newer 10vt with the k24. I guess the question is, whats the pros and cons of the 2 and is the one with the k24 worth a couple hundred more??


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

The newer engine with the K24 offers more driveability, in the sense that the smaller turbo gives you less turbo lag and more torque in the lower end. It also has a higher compression ratio, dual knock sensors, and a few different bits here and there. The larger turbo is better if you plan to bring the hp upwards, but if kept stock, I'd go for the later if I could choose.


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

The motor itself is a pretty straight forward bolt in. There are a few odds and ends to over come such as fitment of the fuel metering head (unless you're using URQ parts), passenger side tie rod (2B sells a properly bent one to clear the wastegate for this type of swap), and intercooler placement (again URQ parts bolt in, but there are better ICs out there). 
The swap is fairly well documented on a couple of sites out there -
http://4ktq.digitalnoise.org/ 
http://sofadog.net/4ktq/ 
http://www.geocities.com/Motor....html
The CGT when turbo'd becomes a whole new animal. With just a chip, wastegate spring, and exhaust you be making 210-220hp (a far cry from the stock 110hp). 
My CGT turbo BTW (yeah I'm pic whoring again dammit!







)


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (84cgtturbo)*

^^ ahh yes, my favorite CGT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I totally didn't know you could chip these motors, is it from a company or a diy mod?
I went ahead and got the 89 200 motor with the k24. sounds like the way to go


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

2Bennett, Intended Acceleration, and a few others have the chip available. It is used in conjunction with a stiffer wastegate spring to raise max boost to 14-15lbs. Adds around 50-60hp to an otherwise stock I5 turbo. 
BTW the K24 IMO is the better turbo for the I5. The motor in my CGT an '87 MC1 and came with the K26 originally, but I switched to a K24 a while back (I have an '86 MC1 still w/K26 in my '84 4KQST, BTW). The K26 makes a bit more on the top end, the K24 spools up faster and has a much more usable power band. 
Good luck with the swap. By the time your done your CGT will be able to dominate your S4.









My '84 4KQST (the pic whoring continues!)


















_Modified by 84cgtturbo at 10:25 AM 6-22-2008_


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (84cgtturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84cgtturbo* »_Good luck with the swap. By the time your done your CGT will be able to dominate your S4.









haha thats what I'm afraid of. I'm going to have to learn how to drive a FWD lol. 
thanks for the help, I'll post up when I start working with the motor... hopefully I will have it before the weekend


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## amike_321 (Dec 8, 2004)

Now I'm interested!!! This is what I always wanted to do with the car but didn't have the time. Pictures and results, Please!


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## MikeHock (Dec 9, 2004)

*Re: (amike_321)*

The 10vt swap is IMHO very simple to do on these cars, BTDT with my old 4kq. As already noted a chipped ECU and wastegate spring are all thats needed to really get the boost flowing. Its the best bang for your buck!
My motor was an MC1 (single knock sensor, K26 turbo) and I loved it. It got better mileage than the old JT lump, was more of a pleasure to drive (of course), and just ripped around town. 
Dereks site (the digitalnoise one) has a few wiring things that arent correct, and I emailed him about them when I was doing my swap back in 2005. 
If you do the swap do yourself a favor and use a spare fog light switch and use it for a toggle switch to trip the fault code diagnostic sequence, it makes checking fault codes simple and a no brainer from the comfort of the drivers seat








Id also highly recommend ARP headstuds and a AAN (20vt) headgasket. They are cheap insurance for a turbo application like this.


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## MikeHock (Dec 9, 2004)

*Re: (MikeHock)*


















Few engine bay shots of my former 4ktq. 


_Modified by MikeHock at 5:46 PM 6-21-2008_


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (MikeHock)*

great info guys! 
the motor is here just got to pick it up this weekend


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (VWdriver03)*

I haven't posted updates on this in a while. but I have the motor and I'm doing little by little. unfortunately when the motor was removed they decided to cut every wire and hose rather than disconnecting them







so I basically need every hose, line, etc and also anything you don't see in the picture, pretty much everything lol.
so if you have any 10v turbo parts, including the K24 turbo that you would let go for fairly cheap, please let me know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by VWdriver03 at 9:08 PM 9-7-2008_


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: (VWdriver03)*

can anyone tell me for sure if this turbo will work? it says its a k24 but its off a 20v so I'm not sure if anything is different
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUDI-QUATT...wItem


_Modified by VWdriver03 at 10:00 PM 9-7-2008_


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## my2000APB (Jun 3, 2007)

itll work fine


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## teach2 (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (84cgtturbo)*



84cgtturbo said:


> (yeah I'm pic whoring again dammit!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## jonny_breakz (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (teach2)*

That really sucks about them cutting everything. talk about a PITA!!








good luck on the swap...I will be watching this as I am also interested in this one day. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2.0t mk2 (Dec 23, 2007)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (jonny_breakz)*

looks good


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (2.0t mk2)*

well the car drove her last mile with her old motor today. erupted in a cloud of smoke on the interstate. so I might as well start selling the old motor parts I don't need. what exactly can be transfered over to the new motor?


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

I mainly just need to know if the ignition coil can be transfered over?
And I got a wiring harness thanks to Derek, so thats out of the way.


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## katman (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWdriver03* »_I mainly just need to know if the ignition coil can be transfered over?


The 'stock' coil on the coupe is different from the coil used by the MAC11 ECU (unless you have the 130hp coupe? I5. Don't know what coil it used).
Stock coil is pwered by the ign contol thing under the dash, where the MC coil is driven by the ECU, which drives the big power transistor mounted right on the (mc) coil.
Hopefully, you've also collected all the other things that go with the harness that you need to do the swap?
Things like the intake air temp sensor, the mentioned coil, the wastegate frequency valve, the knock sensor, the two flywheel timing sensors, the fuel 'frequency valve, the ISV (ISV controller lives a t the driver's end of the harness) and probably a few other things I'm forgetting..
Also note that all the red harnesses are not the same. Some SLIGHT differences. Older ones don't have a connector cot the cold start valve (you have to sort that yourself), where a newer harness will have a connector. Just make sure the harness and the wiring diagram you are using are the same year, and you'll save yourself some problems.


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (katman)*

only got the harness so far, but thanks for the list http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MikeHock (Dec 9, 2004)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

Yeah, the wiring is very simple. Its quite a fun swap, I enjoyed messing with it.


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (MikeHock)*

an update pic, haven't done much, just cleaning and painting some things up. have another pic tomorrow once I put the stuff back on


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

some things back on...


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## AudiCoupeGT (Oct 22, 2008)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

Im doing the swap on my 85 audi coupe to. 
for pic. http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...23878


_Modified by AudiCoupeGT at 5:07 PM 10/22/2008_


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (AudiCoupeGT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AudiCoupeGT* »_Im doing the swap on my 85 audi coupe to. 
for pic. http://www.motorgeek.com/phpBB...23878

_Modified by AudiCoupeGT at 5:07 PM 10/22/2008_

nice, was it really necessary to remove that much of the interior?


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## MikeHock (Dec 9, 2004)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

I actually had the entire top dash out when I did my swap. I had to remove all of the AC stuff. I was able to leave alot of the center console there, but the upper dash, glovebox, instrument cluster, etc were all taken out. 
Motor looks good!


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## AudiCoupeGT (Oct 22, 2008)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (MikeHock)*

no. but im going to paint it.


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## AudiCoupeGT (Oct 22, 2008)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (AudiCoupeGT)*

hey. what transmissions did you put in or car.


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

got a question about the CIS system, can I use a system off any 10vt car or does it have to be off a car that had the k24?


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## MikeHock (Dec 9, 2004)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

Well personally I would use what came with the motor. There are variations of the 10vt. My red harness had a MAC11 ECU. Urq 10vt's are different and have a different ECU and wiring harness (some changes). 
Shouldnt be hard at all to find a good red harness from an MC1/MC2 (whichever you have).


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (MikeHock)*

ok, I just wanted to check because 200 parts are hard to find around here so I was going to use a unit off a 5000


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Lets talk motors, 2.2 to 2.2 turbo swap! (VWdriver03)*

ok, as far as ECU's go, I kow of someone who has a MAC14 I think he said. its from a 89 but I think thats a 20v ECU which won't work. can anyone confirm?


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## katman (Mar 13, 2007)

*Mac 14 vs Mac11*

Mac14 is for the 'newer' 10V turbo motors. (in Audi 200)
Very similar (but not the same) as the mac11, but setup for 2 knock sensors, and designed to work with a k24 turbo, and the slightly higer compression MC2 motor.
Mac14 won't work with a red harness designed to work with the mac 11 ecu, as the ECUs have differetn pinouts (and the 2nd knock sensor provisions)
Nothing to say that you coudln't run the mac14 (with correct harness and 2nd knock sensor) on your mc1 motor though..
On the other hand, if you already have a mac11 harness, just get a mac11 ecu. They are not expensive, nor hard to find..


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Mac 14 vs Mac11 (katman)*

ok well tried it today and the harness I have plugs into the MAC14 fine. So would there be any problems running it with just the one knock sensor since the motor is not a mc2. say like having the CEL on all the time?
thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by VWdriver03 at 11:06 PM 11-5-2008_


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## katman (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: Mac 14 vs Mac11 (VWdriver03)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWdriver03* »_ok well tried it today and the harness I have plugs into the MAC14 fine. 

It may plug in the same, but does the harness wire out the same?
You may want to review the pinouts from here: http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/...fourt
*Very* similar, but not exactly the same. O2 sensor wiring may need some adjustment.
No idea as to what running without a knock sensor would do. Ideally, you'd want to set up your motor to take the 2nd knock sensor.


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## VWdriver03 (Jul 26, 2005)

*Re: Mac 14 vs Mac11 (katman)*

ah I see.
I removed the pieces of wiring harness that were left on the motor, it seems that there quite a few more plugs and whatnot on it compared to the new harness I have. I'm not exctly sure that the motor I have is a older single knock sensor engine. I know where the one knock sensor is located, but does anyone know where the second sensor is on the new style 10v.
there is some kind of sensor by the drive belt pully at the front of the motor, not sure what its for


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