# help. my t-reg's a lemon



## paulpetruzzi (Jan 15, 2004)

I really need some help out there. I had my t-reg (loaded, set me back over 50g's) for one week when I had to get it towed back to the dealer (free and I got a rental car . . . a crappy jeep).
Worst part is the dealer's service department (Gunther VW) has no idea what is wrong with the truck or how to fix it







.
Here's what happened:
I was enjoying the hell out of this truck and all the gadgets when a message came up that said "slow down or reselect" and showed the auto diff. icon. I slowed down, but the message kept coming up. The truck's auto diff was set in high automatic and I was driving on the highway at the time. The message kept coming up, I got to my destination and it stopped.
A couple of days later, the same thing started again. This time I was going @80mph. It kept coming up, and finally, without warning, the truck just shifted itself from 6th gear to 1st gear. I though I was going through the window. I stopped, put the car in park, called VW, they said no problem, keep going and take it to the dealer tomorrow. OK, fine. I started back up again, this time the brake light started flashing and a new message came up that said "brake failure, stop immediately" But the brakes were fine.
Then the slow down or reselct light message came up again, and the truck shifted itself again.
I felt like the I was driving a Toureg possessed by satan.
and now that the dealership can't help, I'm seriously thinking about exorcism.
Can anyone help me??


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*

Thank you for your post. Now I know if my car ever tells me to slow down because it mistakenly thinks I want to go into low range, I'll take its advice, slow down, then stop and call a flatbed tow truck. Irresponsible of the dealer to tell you to ignore it, if that's what happened. I'd go to the General Manager of the dealer and also contact VWoA, because if your car shifted into first gear at 80 mph, you've probably damaged something. Good luck.


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## S4inSoFla (Sep 23, 2001)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*

I know this doesn't help, but Gunther is one of the best VW dealerships out there. Good luck with your problem.


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## Outrageous (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulpetruzzi* »_. It kept coming up, and finally, without warning, the truck just shifted itself from 6th gear to 1st gear. 

Sounds to me like it wasn't exactly "without warning ". Sorry to hear about your problem though.


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## cgmb16 (Jul 22, 2003)

Surely to God such abrupt shifts like that can't be good for the transmission. I would also think that would be dangerous while going @ 80 mph. I would take silverandteak's advice! 
Good luck.


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## paulpetruzzi (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (Outrageous)*

Thanks for the humor Outrageous. Can use it under the circumstances. And I'd agree with you if the warning said "Look out, I am now sending your sorry a__ through the window", but it wasn't that specific.


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## Outrageous (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*

"Slow down" sounds pretty specific to me, but I do get your point about it being a cryptic message. This message came up with someone else on the forum not too long ago, and I seem to recall that the problem was either the differential locking up or the transfer case trying to shift to low range.


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## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*

I'm the one that has seen this warning on my Touareg. Fortunately my problem never progressed to the point of shifting from 6th to 1st at speed -- that's got to do a number on a number of critical parts.
I agree that the warning is extreemly cryptic and/or a very poor translation. Essentially it is telling you to "increase your slowness" or reselect. When your not touching anything but the steering wheel and perhaps the gas pedal it is tough to imagine what you're supposed to reselect (much less select).
I hooked my VAG up to the car before I took it into the shop and the error that came up was in the AWD system. The VAG read "Brake for differential locking motor" and "electrical fault in circuit - intermittent".
After 5 days in the shop, VWoA decided the computer wasn't lying and agreed to let the shop order the differential locking motor. Two days later I had my car back.


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## Outrageous (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (darylhuff)*

This sounds like it might be the same thing as the "stepper motor" that's caused problems for some other forum members.


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (darylhuff)*

thanx guys! The truck has been in the shop for almost two weeks http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif and all they've told me is "sorry, we don't know what's wrong with it yet." I directed the service mgr to this forum string and, hopefully, he'll learn something.
I've been told that my dealership (Gunther) is very good, but so far I think they blow.








I can tell you for sure, though, that if I lemon law this thing, I'm getting an FX or X5


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## SlotCAR (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulpetruzzi* »_... and finally, without warning, the truck just shifted itself from 6th gear to 1st gear. 

At 80mph ???? -










_Modified by SlotCAR at 9:36 PM 1-18-2004_


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## grkman1 (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (petruzzip)*

I too purchased my Treg From Gunther VW in Coconut Creek, and I feel that they are just great, of course I dont have the problem that you have. Did you speak to Pete, the shop manager. He seems quite knowledgable. if VW's response is that they dont know what is wrong with it, then I would tell them to replace it.
So many of us have such great performance with the Treg, and I havent heard anyone else have such a problem....I would say this is atypical.....Good luck and let us know what theoutcome is


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (SlotCAR)*

yes. and I wish you were with me without a seatbelt. pin head.


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (grkman1)*

No grkman1, it was Gunther, Ft. Lauderdale. I've spoken with Chris, the service mgr, I've spoke with the Gen Mgr., I've spoke with my salesman, John Shorter, and I have two service techs assigned to the car. They have been great at telling me how sorry they are, but can offer nothing to fix the problems. Oh, and by the way, they told me they were able to read a bunch of codes from the computer that did indicate there were alot of problems with the trans. and diff., but they said when they went to print them out they lost the data (whatever that means)


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## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*

If your transmission downshifted to first doing 80, forget the tranny; think of your motor rpms going way beyond redline when breaking in. If they is a delimiter it doesn't work on downshifts.
This overrev can be read on your printout, by the dealer. One can accuse you of abusing the truck at a later date.


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## SlotCAR (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (paulpetruzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulpetruzzi* »_I really need some help out there. I had my t-reg (loaded, set me back over 50g's) for one week when I had to get it towed back to the dealer (free and I got a rental car . . . a crappy jeep).
Worst part is the dealer's service department (Gunther VW) has no idea what is wrong with the truck or how to fix it







.
Here's what happened:
I was enjoying the hell out of this truck and all the gadgets when a message came up that said "slow down or reselect" and showed the auto diff. icon. I slowed down, but the message kept coming up. The truck's auto diff was set in high automatic and I was driving on the highway at the time. The message kept coming up, I got to my destination and it stopped.
A couple of days later, the same thing started again. This time I was going @80mph. It kept coming up, and finally, without warning, the truck just shifted itself from 6th gear to 1st gear. I though I was going through the window. I stopped, put the car in park, called VW, they said no problem, keep going and take it to the dealer tomorrow. OK, fine. I started back up again, this time the brake light started flashing and a new message came up that said "brake failure, stop immediately" But the brakes were fine.
Then the slow down or reselct light message came up again, and the truck shifted itself again.
I felt like the I was driving a Toureg possessed by satan.
and now that the dealership can't help, I'm seriously thinking about exorcism.
Can anyone help me??









80MPH, in 6th with a downshift to 1st ...
80mph=3000rpm with a 6th gear ratio of 0.69 w/overdrive.
1st gear has a ratio of 4.15 [if I remember correctly] which would extrapolate out to 18,000+ rpm, slightly above the T's rev. limit.
Of course the rev. limiter would have no effect on downshifting or engine braking so no protection from there.
I don't know if I would put any confidence in any VW tech. to repair the damage such that it would never happen again. Due to plain safety concerns, I would definately get rid of this vehicle ASAP.


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## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

Well said Slotcar.......


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (SlotCAR)*

That just plain could not happen, and you still be able to drive the car. Your reg did not shift into 1st at 80 mph, if it did you would have surely floated the valves, busted springs, and put wholes in your pistons and essentially blown the engine. It might have shifted into a different gear, but it was most certainly not 1st gear.


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## SlotCAR (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (vwbrvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwbrvr6* »_That just plain could not happen, and you still be able to drive the car. Your reg did not shift into 1st at 80 mph, if it did you would have surely floated the valves, busted springs, and put wholes in your pistons and essentially blown the engine. It might have shifted into a different gear, but it was most certainly not 1st gear.

I agree .... vwbrvr6
It might be what he experienced was the transmission shifting into LOW. That would be consistant with the warning message he received, and probably at some other speed then the 80mph he originally quoted.
Ahh, but what do I know and of course I was not there, and I'm just a "pinhead" as he prefers name calling rather than intelligent discussions on the subject.
Non the less, I value the health of myself and my family, and would not even think of keeping a car exhibiting this problem.
Lemon? Time Bomb? Dump it.


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## Company T-Reg (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (petruzzip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petruzzip* »_
I can tell you for sure, though, that if I lemon law this thing, I'm getting an FX or X5

Why? You would get a brand new T-Reg. You could request a higher VIN, you would be aware of all the problems to look out for and you would be that much wiser. 
Do you really want to drive a car (X5, FX) that you see everywhere you look?
Be bifferent.


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## paulpetruzzi (Jan 15, 2004)

OK, enough is enough. To all you non-believers. Call my service Mgr at Gunther 954-797-1660 and he will tell you it did, in fact happen. They read the codes from the computer and confirmed what I said. They just don't know what is wrong or how to fix it. Rather than trying to pick fights with people, you all ought to be aware that it could happen to you and what to do to avoid it. The problem, if you read other posts, is with the differential. 
Oh, and by the way, it didn't rev up as you said. The car just seemed to cut out altogether, like it just wouldn't do anythin. I had to coast off the highway twice on a very fast road in the everglades and, once, almost got rear-ended by a semi. Bet none of you would've wanted to be there, right?


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## SlotCAR (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (paulpetruzzi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paulpetruzzi* »_To all you non-believers. 

I'm certainly not a non-believer ... I'm sure what you experienced was very real.
Do you think the Touareg's transmission went into "limp" mode to protect itself?
Is you Dealer able to say exactly what the Touraeg did?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (paulpetruzzi)*

I would expect that eventually you will get a new car or a buyback if they can't fix it. Are they still holding on to the car or do they want to give it back to you? I don't think there is anything that anyone of this forum can do for you other than to suggest getting a lawyer or reading up on FL lemon laws. 
Also, no one else here seems to have experienced this problem. If there were 5, 10 or 20 other people here that have experienced this problem then I would be concerned. But one out of 200+ owners is not that big a concern to me.


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## Ominx (May 24, 2001)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (Company T-Reg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Company T-Reg* »_
Do you really want to drive a car (X5, FX) that you see everywhere you look?

I don't want to get too off topic but, there is one thing to like being different and to be admired for it. But in all honesty when I look at a treg I can't help but wonder what problems that different person is experiencing with their great value in a suv. I test drove the treg and my cousin has one. I just couldn't force myself to be a guinea pig, even if it meant that I could be different. I ended up with an X5, so I guess I am just the same as everyone else that can afford a $55K suv.


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## MWVW (Jun 14, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*

<---Lawyer.
Get them to take it back. Ask them to contact the VWoA representative for a buyback and trade-assist money to put you in the same car at no cost to you. In Florida, you can apply for lemon law status at 15 days down time and you are entitled to arbitration at 30 days down time, assuming the problem meets certain minimum criteria - which it sounds like yours does.
VWoA doesn't want to buy back cars it doesn't have to, but they also don't want it on the state lemon law list if it is going to be declared a lemon anyway. Gunther is a powerful dealership and they can get VWoA to step up if they are motivated to. It sounds like you've been reasonable so far, but it may be time to start talking about how much $ you put into this car and that you don't want it back due to the apparent severity and inability to repair the problem.
Schumacher VW in West Palm Beach told me right away that if they couldn't fix the problem with mine (Touareg Death Syndrome) within a reasonable time, they would work with VWoA to replace it. They tried to fix it, but it quickly became apparent that it was going to take a lot of time and they did just what they said they would - replace it at no cost to me. Gunther is a larger dealer than Schumacher - if they can't get it fixed or replaced within a reasonable time period, they aren't trying. It sounds to me like they need a harder push. Good luck.


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

MWVW. Thank you very much!!! And I may have some good news to report.
First though, the coincidences . . . 
Funny you suggest a lawyer, because I am one. Don't hold it against me, alot of folks hate us, but in this instance it actually seems to be helping. I told them this morning that I was sending the lemon law certified letter.
Gunther called this afternoon to say 1. they still don't know what the problem is (15 days and counting) and 2. they are trying to help me get VoA get me a replacement vehicle.
And guess what, even though I bought it at Gunther, they got it from Schumacher. Suppose we have the only two schumacher lemons out there? What are the odds?


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

*Re: (MWVW)*

oh, and if you still have it, tell me what the last five digits were on the t-reg they bought back. my last five are 14588.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (petruzzip)*

There's a good thread to start; 
POST THE VIN OF YOUR TOUAREG LEMON THAT VW BOUGHT BACK


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## MWVW (Jun 14, 2003)

I think the VIN was in the 4-5000 range ... it was the first car they had. Maybe it's because they've been selling more V-8's, but it seems to me that the most serious issues have arisen with maxxed out V-8's. My first one had tons of quirks (random compass displays, radio turn off, forgetting memory settings, no remote range, etc.) but my new one seems to be bulletproof - not a single quirk yet (one month and counting) and I've been looking for them!
As for the South Florida gateway of lemons theory, maybe they have a rouge tech that's playing science lab with them?


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (MWVW)*

I had a situation similar to Paul's, but I didn't have the transmission shift from 6th to 1st... and now my TOUAREG is in the shop being looked over.
Should I be nervous?


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

hell yeah! Welcome to the Touareg owners club. I posted on your string, but if you come back here first, what's your v.i.n.?? My last four digits are 14588


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (petruzzip)*

The last five of my V.I.N.: 28718


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## miamitreg (Jan 15, 2004)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

I bought mine at Gunter also the sales is OK, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif service sucks !!! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Try going to Esserman International and ask for Joe Benitez his T-reg specialist is Tony the guy is a bad ass working on T-Regs. He replace the gas tank on mine in one day and so far everything is working fine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

"There's a good thread to start; 
POST THE VIN OF YOUR TOUAREG LEMON THAT VW BOUGHT BACK"
They probably would require owners to sign a confidentiality agreement on buy backs (or exchanges). Porsche does.


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## njtouareg (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: (Torags)*

all state laws differ, but in NJ if a dealership re-sells a car that was returned as a "lemon" then the dealer is required to have the consumer sign a notice that they were informed of it being a prior lemon. But still "buyer beware"


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## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: (njtouareg)*

I wonder what the definition of lemon is for the NJ law? 
Does it have to be judged by someone to define it?
Is a "soft" return (exchange) without getting legal help - defined as a lemon?
Hmmm...


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (Torags)*

Should be the same as anywhere else: Yellow oval fruit with juicy acidic flesh.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (Torags)*

Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask: 
http://www.mylemon.com/


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (jmj)*

I spoke with a sales manager at Gunther today about Paul's vehicle to see if their service guys came up with any kinds of ideas for finding the problems with his vehicle, in hopes that there would be information I could pass on to my dealer here in Colorado. Unfortunately, the sales manager I spoke with, and I wish I could remember his name, didn't have anything for me. The guy I spoke with could not have been any more helpful with me. My impressions of Gunther, just with taking to this sales manager, are great. This sounds like a good dealer to do business with.
The Gunther sales manager told me that VW technicians from Michigan had flown into Florida to work on Paul's TOUAREG, but so far they have not been able to find anything out.... which doesn't make me feel any better.
I wanna send out a big shout-out to Gunther VW - because of how they handled my phone call today... and I'm here in Colorado.


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## bravocharlie (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

Was it Dave Claus at Gunther? I have spoken to him twice. He has been absolutely fantastic to talk to and very helpful.


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## Torags (Aug 18, 2003)

*Re: (jmj)*

I'm wondering about the dealers responsibility in identifying a lemon. Does he have a legal obligation and what are his responsibilities.
If the law says 15 days in the dealer for repairs and the dealer replaces the car in 14 days because of a bad motor. Is the replaced car defined as a lemon?.......... Hmmmmmm.


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

OK guys, here's the update:
I spoke with the Service MGR today. Volkswagen told the dealer to order a new control module for my truck. The big question is what happens first? They fix it or their time to do so runs out. 14 days left and counting for the lemon law period to expire. THE RACE IS ON!!!!
As far as the solution is concerned, it beats me. I haven't the foggiest idea what a new control module is going to do. And what about the tranny? What about the differential? Seems fishy to me. I bet you all a new X5 that they just ordered the control module to appear like something is getting done. Don't get me wrong, I don't blame Gunther. They've been cool, but you'd think the boners in "der fatherland" would have figured this crap out before they sent all of our AWD time bombs across the Atlantic.


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

OK, I have my truck back. I picked it up from the dealership tonight. Here's what they said on the invoice:
"3959 Transfer case control module per VW hotline channel. HCVW 216036 check with 5052 DTCS in four wheel drive, 02409 02039. DTCS in brake electronics, 02053 used guideed fault finding to check DTCS. Ran tests as perguided fault finding, all tests passed. Checked wires and control modules after performing guided fault finding, 5051 would not print out test log. Informed shop foreman and shop manager. Tech contacted hotline channel and informed them of customer complaint. Was told by hotline channel to visually inspect transfer case control module harness where harness goes through body of vehicle. Also inspect and test stepper motor on transfer case to see if operating properly R & I passenger seat. R&I passenger seat base to gain access to transfer case control module. Tech inspected wire harness, ok test tested motor on transfer case, applied voltage to motor, operating properly inspected ground for module. was also told to check value block 22 to test switching for transfer case. checked value blocks and sent information to hotline channel. was told by hotline channel to replace transfer case control module. Remove and replace transfer case control module. Check all systems and clear all codes and test drive vehicle 15 miles. VC=Siemens. Loaner provided while repairs were bieng made."
What the hell does all that mean???
Why "5051 would not print out test log"??
Now the kicker:
I requested the printout of the codes and was told no because VW would not approve of me having the printout. WHY? I wonder.
I did get my hands on the first page of the "Self diagnosis log" that my service teck had. Here's what it said:
"22 - Four wheel drive electronics
0AD927755L
TRANSFERCASE 0076
Dealership number 00000
2 Fault detected
02409 012
Brake for disabling motor
electrical fault in circuit
sporadic
02039 006
Differential Position Sensor-G398
Short to positive
sporadic
03-Brake electronics
7L0907379C
ESP ALLRAD MK25 0107
Coding 14593
Dealership number 31414
1Fault detected
02053 013
Differentail Control Module-J646
check DTC memory
sporadic"
OK, now what does all that mean? And why does it sound different from the service invoice?
HELP!!!!!!


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## Outrageous (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (petruzzip)*



petruzzip said:


> was also told to check value block 22 to test switching for transfer case.
> 22 - Four wheel drive electronics
> 0AD927755L
> TRANSFERCASE 0076
> ...


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (Outrageous)*

Paul,
I found out I had a defective Stepper Motor in my Center Diff... it's been replaced and I will be picking up my TOUAREG tomorrow, but I'm going to have to pay for the diagnostics related to the Seat Belt Chime. I'll fight that battle another day.


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## petruzzip (Jan 18, 2004)

cool. congrats. and thanks for the backup. if you ever get to south florida, give me a ring.


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## chickdr (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (TREGinginCO)*

I have a suggestion for those charges. Charge them and then dispute them with your CC company. How can they possibly relate a bad stepper motor to you disabling the seat belt chime? Rediculous...


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## Outrageous (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: help. my t-reg's a lemon (petruzzip)*

An overview of how the center differential/transfer case works can be found on pages 46-51 of this pdf:
http://www.ohiovw.com/files/to...d.pdf
You can get some insight into how the stepper motor turns a cam which both engages low range and adjusts the setting on the differential lock. I have to admit I'm still a bit unclear on exactly how these operate.


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