# United Motorsport: Ultimate Stage 1 Turbo



## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2011)

Ladies and Gents, 

We took our 2.5L development car over to the dyno to see what sort of numbers we're making. 

310 awhp (smoothed number from chart) 
267 awftlbs (smoothed number from chart) 

9psi boost. 

Why 'awhp': This car is 4wd. Running Mk5 R32 Haldex / rear end and modified O2M 6sp 
gearbox upfront. 

General Car Specs: 
2007 VW Rabbit 2.5L 
Stock engine 
United Motorsport Short Runner Intake Manifold 
550cc Injectors 
Stock MAF 
Stock Fuel Pump 
6262BB Turbo 
3" exhaust. 
4Motion 

Why call this 'Ultimate': These results show what is possible with a minimal hardware change setup. (all 'bolt-on' parts, and no opening of the engine) 
Stock MAF. 
Stock fuel pump. 

Why stop at just ~9psi boost: We hit MAF max. The next step is to change the maf and turn it up, simple. 

The purpose of this exercise is to further refine UM's superior 2.5L product offering.


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

That's awesome. Congrats on those numbers! Will you be releasing a "kit" soon then?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Awesome. 

Can't freaking wait to be turbo!!!

I love the fact that everything is released a couple hours after it was dynoed! 

Can't wait for the 15lbs
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## 2ptslo (Jul 16, 2003)

awd 2.5L? that sounds amazing!!! Any pictures of the car/underbody?


----------



## chinapie2 (Mar 11, 2011)

Dayummmmm


----------



## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

So all of this on stock internals and compression? Isn't 9 psi on a big 6262 equivalent to about 12-15 psi for something smaller like the 5457?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2011)

Kit already available from Bluewater Performance: 

BW 400 Turbo Kit 

Add SRI. 
Add 3" exhaust. 

Matt or I @ UM or Gabe @ BWP will advise you on the correct turbo spec. for your goals. 

Penny: Torque will be the same at the same boost, within reason, no mater what turbo. 
Hp depends on total flow. If you do 'all you can' to maximize flow then boosted power 
will match theoretical power gain. 
Example: 
This car made ~198whp N/A. 2wd. 
Theory says 9psi would give us ~319whp. 
We added 4Motion, so we pretty much matched theory. 

-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## vDub624 (Oct 8, 2010)

THIS IS AWESOME. i am building a 09 stage 3 over this summer with internals and ive been wanting UM software.....could this happen?:beer::beer::beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

:thumbup:


----------



## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

Stupid.... 














Stupid Awesome!!!!!! 

:beer: :beer:


----------



## prenne5050 (Jun 22, 2008)

im guessing the kit in the link is different from the posted?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

this is the first dynoed turbo kit i've seen with SRI!  

looks awesome!!!


----------



## The Dust Bunny (May 21, 2012)

I know I wasn't the only one that noticed the baseline said 77 hp.


----------



## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

wow. car has some guts.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

The Dust Bunny said:


> I know I wasn't the only one that noticed the baseline said 77 hp.


 You are reading wrong. That's min power from the graph, meaning: starting point on graph.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## The Dust Bunny (May 21, 2012)

Ok. I thought it was a baseline since the tq seemed about right.


----------



## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

So the kit doesn't add a turbo? I would have to go out and purchase a turbo extra? Yikes if so that bumps the kit up another grand.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Aonarch said:


> So the kit doesn't add a turbo? I would have to go out and purchase a turbo extra? Yikes if so that bumps the kit up another grand.


 Lol, it does includes the turbo. They just didn't list it.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Kit already available from Bluewater Performance:
> 
> BW 400 Turbo Kit
> 
> ...


 Why is it $500 more then the C2 kit?


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Anile_eight said:


> Why is it $500 more then the C2 kit?


 Front mount maybe? and different parts.


----------



## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

looks amazing, though quite expensive when you add in an SRI as well. and to the guy who asked why it's $500 more, compare what comes with each kit...or it's simply because they're a different company. :facepalm:


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

It's more because of the parts. I mean, Sid you take a look at the parts list?
Pte turbo that YOU chose depending on what you want. They are not assigning you all to the same turbo. If you want, they'll include a small 54xx up to a 62xx.

It also has a front mount, instead of a sidemount.
Forge dv

This kit it times better than c2's. This is NOT a budget kit.

I mean, if you choose the bigger turbo option, and.add the Sri you can have +300whp at 9 psi...

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

mldouthi said:


> Front mount maybe? and different parts.


 C2 has a FMIC as well


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Anile_eight said:


> C2 has a FMIC as well


 My bad, I was comparing C2 stage 1 to UM stage 1. 

My second statement stands.


----------



## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

sounds good...


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Cool


----------



## Doc TwoPointFive (Oct 6, 2007)

"ADDITIONAL INFORMATION 
Looking to blow away all of the competition with your 2.5? Our BW400 kit is just what you need. This kit was made to outperform anything else on the market. We did not skimp on anything from our sch. 40 steel turbo manifold that is guaranteed not to warp or crack and outflows any cheap cast manifold out there to our surgical stainless turbo piping with a Treadstone intercooler, everything is top notch." 

Says it right in the description, top notch, you pay for what you get. The current kit certainly isn't a "bargain" in comparison, but that's the price you pay when you have so few developers making products for our cars. And that's not taking anything away from them, it's the truth of business. If they were huge companies they could certainly offer their products at a lower price, but that certainly doesn't mean you get the same quality as we all know. 

Great numbers Jeff, really interested to see more info on the 4 motion swap. I know Gabe did one for his monster project, would like to see and get a general idea what is involved to still keep the car in street clothes and not a full out race car. Will you be bringing this vehicle down to H2O this year?


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Kit already available from Bluewater Performance:
> 
> BW 400 Turbo Kit
> 
> ...


 When it says "v-band" equipped under the steel manifold, does that mean the manifold is V-banded or not because I see where it says the manifold is t3 flanged... 

Also this theory would make more power on fwd only or was the dyno done with Haldex disengaged?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> When it says "v-band" equipped under the steel manifold, does that mean the manifold is V-banded or not because I see where it says the manifold is t3 flanged...
> 
> Also this theory would make more power on fwd only or was the dyno done with Haldex disengaged?


 i would think that other connections are v-band. Such as wastegate connection and downpipe. 

the turbo is a t3 flange


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> i would think that other connections are v-band. Such as wastegate connection and downpipe.
> 
> the turbo is a t3 flange


 Unless the wastegate mount is v-band, which I think is the case. 

It's a fair priced kit imo. It's labeled as stage 1, but essentially the same as c2 stage 3.


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Unless the wastegate mount is v-band, which I think is the case.


 the t3 doesnt look v-band to me, i thought it was just the downpipe 









but the t4 looks v-band


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I guess so. Didn't bw have a t4 manifold that had the v-band wastegate flange? I don't even see that manifold on their site anymore :sly:


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I guess so. Didn't bw have a t4 manifold that had the v-band wastegate flange? I don't even see that manifold on their site anymore :sly:


 they listed both of their t3 and t4 manifolds here 


https://bwperformance.com/store/products/vw-audi-specific/volkswagen/mk5/25l/engine/exhaust


----------



## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Unless the wastegate mount is v-band, which I think is the case.
> 
> It's a fair priced kit imo. It's labeled as stage 1, but essentially the same as c2 stage 3.


 i'd say its equivalent to the C2 stage 2. C2 stage 3 adds a head spacer.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> they listed both of their t3 and t4 manifolds here
> 
> 
> https://bwperformance.com/store/products/vw-audi-specific/volkswagen/mk5/25l/engine/exhaust


 Under exhaust.. Hm should be under forced induction  

UM, can you estimate a power level of a 6262, 15 psi, tuned for your FlexFuel e85? Doing my own thing, but I already know i need larger injectors and at least one more fuel pump. I have forged internals already. It'll have stock headstuds until I have the cash for ARP hardware


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

pennsydubbin said:


> i'd say its equivalent to the C2 stage 2. C2 stage 3 adds a head spacer.


 True, but this is making c2 stage 3 numbers at lower boost. New maf room for more power. I guess they haven't found a need for a headspacer yet.


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

i need this tune and turbo kit. 
i too was interested in E85, being able to gain 15-25% more, but am a little skeptical after hearing about someone else having problems with it, i think username lampyb.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> i need this tune and turbo kit.
> i too was interested in E85, being able to gain 15-25% more, but am a little skeptical after hearing about someone else having problems with it, i think username lampyb.


 I was told that mad maf problems. He tore the maf wires and tried to fix it himself which caused problems. He told me himself if he had e85 locally he would go back to it. 

I know the tune is switchable back to gas, but you should at least have in your mind it shouldn't be that easy to just pump in gas, and stick with one or the other. 

I think this turbo kit shows the thresholds are in the tuning not the motor..


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I was told that mad maf problems. He tore the maf wires and tried to fix it himself which caused problems. He told me himself if he had e85 locally he would go back to it.


 yeah i have 3 e85 stations near me, located conveniently on each military base for their vehicles. 



> I know the tune is switchable back to gas, but you should at least have in your mind it shouldn't be that easy to just pump in gas, and stick with one or the other.


 elaborate? im worried about the ecugoing crazy if i switched to 93 only 



> I think this turbo kit shows the thresholds are in the tuning not the motor..


 :thumbup: that is why i am glad i got their NA tune which is also amazing. thanks to Jeff


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nickbeezy said:


> yeah i have 3 e85 stations near me, located conveniently on each military base for their vehicles.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I guess Jeff can elaborate on that issue. I'm saying more along the lines of yes the ecu can go a little crazy. Just because the tune has switchable maps for e85 and 93 you shouldn't expect it to be as easy as just pumping it in. 

I personally would drain the tank, change fuel filter, go down to 550's to go back to 93 on a turbo with a colder spark plug. 

Some of my Subie friends making mad power on a 35r with stock internals on e85, have told stories of their forums where guys will just go back to gas and at the same boost levels because the tune doesn't change that, and then they detonate the motor.


----------



## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> True, but this is making c2 stage 3 numbers at lower boost. New maf room for more power. I guess they haven't found a need for a headspacer yet.


 well not necessarily. Can't really compare these numbers and psi since they're using a much larger turbo. If i was running a 6262 ( which I am buying for my new build ) I could make my current power at a lower boost as well. 

And I was told that a head spacer isn't necessary with a SRI, but I feel like it has to help in some way though.... lower compression means more boost :sly: 

Now, I'm not trying to fight for any kit. I'm accepting to both companies. Just stating what I see from my perspective.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

pennsydubbin said:


> well not necessarily. Can't really compare these numbers and psi since they're using a much larger turbo. If i was running a 6262 ( which I am buying for my new build ) I could make my current power at a lower boost as well.
> 
> And I was told that a head spacer isn't necessary with a SRI, but I feel like it has to help in some way though.... lower compression means more boost :sly:
> 
> Now, I'm not trying to fight for any kit. I'm accepting to both companies. Just stating what I see from my perspective.


 I'm actually mad I went with low comp pistons.. After talking to Neil Diamond I wish I went with high comp pistons and ran that new HTA 37r. Instant spool, no lag, 5-600hp low boost. Of course that absurd, the trans will never live through one pull, but still high comp pistons and a big turbo on e85 or meth would be a lot of fun.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

Bring us a car with a smaller turbo. We will repeat the results.
Our next build will likely be a 5858.

The Precision 62 is not 'huge' compared to 58 or TO4E 50 trim.
North of mid-400's whp there is a difference, sure. At this power level, any T3 turbo will easily do.

This setup will allow us to find each limiting part, change it, then move up. The purpose: to design kit options specifically for individual power/budget/preference goals.

-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Jefnes3 said:


> Bring us a car with a smaller turbo. We will repeat the results.
> Our next build will likely be a 5858.
> 
> The Precision 62 is not 'huge' compared to 58 or TO4E 50 trim.
> ...


 is that 5858 me, or someone else??


----------



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

How about making an AWD kit:thumbup:


----------



## bunnyfufu (Jan 25, 2011)

Anile_eight said:


> Why is it $500 more then the C2 kit?


 I think the manifold also may have something to due with the price, beings c2s manifold is cast and you can buy it for like $300 if im not mistaked. tubular manifolds usually cost a bit more.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

the root is simple: 

2 different companies. 2 different kits. 2 different target audience, 2 different prices.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> the root is simple:
> 
> 2 different companies. 2 different kits. 2 different target audience, 2 different prices.


 this is the answer. 

No need to over analyze it, no one company has to have the same stage one that another has. I'm just glad to see more options


----------



## tom8thebomb (Nov 28, 2002)

DerekH said:


> this is the answer.
> 
> No need to over analyze it, no one company has to have the same stage one that another has. I'm just glad to see more options


 above two posts...well said.


----------



## Wooshio (Apr 23, 2012)

Are you guys working on bringing this to MK6 2.5's at all? Still nothing out for us (C2 is apperantly close though).


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Yup. Read post 1.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Wooshio (Apr 23, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> Yup. Read post 1.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


 I just went through the entire thread twice, and I didn' see a thing about it. 
Am I complitely blind or what?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Wooshio said:


> I just went through the entire thread twice, and I didn' see a thing about it.
> Am I complitely blind or what?


 I must have read it somewhere else then.

Currently united motorsports has mk6 software ready. Depending on the year and ecu, you can be port flashed or you might have to be bench flashed.
For any turbo sw you might have to send the ecu in to them.

iirc, For mk6 turbo, they have hardware ready,and software needs to be finalized, which should be done by the end of July as a donor is coming in shortly.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

Wooshio said:


> Are you guys working on bringing this to MK6 2.5's at all? Still nothing out for us (C2 is apperantly close though).



We have '09 and '10 2.5L cars being built. These will be tuned ~this season.

The turbo kit parts already work on the Mk6 cars.

Once the ball is rolling, so to speak, We will have maf-less software options comparable to
our 05-08 2.5L offerings.

-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Jefnes3 said:


> We have '09 and '10 2.5L cars being built. These will be tuned ~this season.
> 
> The turbo kit parts already work on the Mk6 cars.
> 
> ...


Anyway to tune the premafless cars to be "mafless" or are we pretty much stuck with this garbage maf.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Anyway to tune the premafless cars to be "mafless" or are we pretty much stuck with this garbage maf.


LOL

You are misatken. 
The MAF MEASURES air. 
The mafless cars are MODELED airflow.

Maf-Less is the biggest reason why there are very few real software options for the '09-up cars.

The stock maf on the ME7 cars is quite reliable, as long as you don't overflow or reverse flow them. 

-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Anyway to tune the premafless cars to be "mafless" or are we pretty much stuck with this garbage maf.



Other solution: convert to the '09 ME17 ecu.


-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm confused then. I thought you said the maf was the limiting factor. Had to be upgraded to make more reliable power over your stage 1. That's why I asked that. More of a "well is getting rid of it a possibility?" Ha


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Sticking another maf on there adds yet another few hundred dollars to the kit price... Gotta call it quits somewhere or you'd end up with a $15k, 700 bhp stage 1 kit.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Sticking another maf on there adds yet another few hundred dollars to the kit price... Gotta call it quits somewhere or you'd end up with a $15k, 700 bhp stage 1 kit.


Not a bad thing! New maf can be stage 2 

Pete have you thought of making drop in rods like the ones available for the 2.0t? It cost me 7 bones almost to have mine installed, honed, and put back together. A .5mm bore would be pretty pricey for the guys looking to go with internals. Drop in rods would be huge imo. If they are drop in already, as in they will mount to the oem piston correct me. When I ordered my pistons and rods last year I was told to get pistons as well so I'm guessing the wrist pins are different. Oem what 19mm? Yours 20mm?


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I remember someone talking about pistons before. And saying that the oem pistons aren't that great at holding up under high stress situations. I think it was something to do with how close the ring seats were to the top of the piston. Causing them to be easier to crack. But i'm not entirely sure. At any rate, if i have my engine apart im doing pistons as well.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

DerekH said:


> I remember someone talking about pistons before. And saying that the oem pistons aren't that great at holding up under high stress situations. I think it was something to do with how close the ring seats were to the top of the piston. Causing them to be easier to crack. But i'm not entirely sure. At any rate, if i have my engine apart im doing pistons as well.


its the piston landings and the "easiness" of damage of the oil ring.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> its the piston landings and the "easiness" of damage of the oil ring.


Makes sense. Cool didn't know :thumbup:


----------



## nunumkv (Jul 5, 2010)

man im trying to stop putting money in my 2.5l for my new project u guys killing me


----------



## Zimm the Mkv racer (Apr 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Sticking another maf on there adds yet another few hundred dollars to the kit price... Gotta call it quits somewhere or you'd end up with a $15k, 700 bhp stage 1 kit.


sounds awsome until u shoot a piston through the hood


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*MK6 2.5L Getting T'd*

My MK6 2.5L is @ APTuning (PA) as I write, being fitted w/ BW Turbo Kit (SMIC) and a UM Tune.

As of Fri 7/6 (yesterday), all was going well, except a minor tubing issue that should be resolved.
Expect to pick up Fri 7/20 & head to Waterfest 7/21.

I also had APT put in an HEP SRI w/ UM Tune back in Feb 2012. The quality of that work by APT
was tops. The car has simply been a constant joy to drive, normal & spirited driving on winding roads.

So for those thinking about a BW/UM 2.5L Turbo Kit I can attest it's being done. I will post
after Waterfest as to my impressions of the installation and performance.

My most immediate post-T mod is BBK to handle braking. Future plans include WALK, bushings,
28mm front sway...

-Chris

BTW - I was prepared to upgrade to forged IE rods, but every expert I spoke w/ advised that stock
rods should be fine through 300 wHP. Driving sensibly may also help avoid replacing clutch, tranny,
etc. (for now).


----------



## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

OldPhart said:


> My MK6 2.5L is @ APTuning (PA) as I write, being fitted w/ BW Turbo Kit (SMIC) and a UM Tune..


Hope to get down to WF an see that. :beer:



OldPhart said:


> I also had APT put in an HEP SRI w/ UM Tune back in Feb 2012. The quality of that work by APT
> was tops. The car has simply been a constant joy to drive, normal & spirited driving on winding roads..


I'm thinking of doing the same; checking out the SRI for a while and then moving to the turbo. But with the longer econo-gearing on the new Golfs ('13 2.5 for me) I'm wondering if the SRI alone would be less impressive and I should just expend all rounds in one shot for boost.



OldPhart said:


> My most immediate post-T mod is BBK to handle braking. Future plans include WALK, bushings,
> 28mm front sway....


Don't you mean "28mm _rear_ sway..." It would be a shame to build such a nice motor and then make it understeer like a rental car.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Unless he already has a rear sway...


----------



## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

OldPhart said:


> My MK6 2.5L is @ APTuning (PA) as I write, being fitted w/ BW Turbo Kit (SMIC) and a UM Tune.
> 
> As of Fri 7/6 (yesterday), all was going well, except a minor tubing issue that should be resolved.
> Expect to pick up Fri 7/20 & head to Waterfest 7/21.


I'll see you down there! Jeff has my car and is finishing up my 550 tune, then possibly getting the 870's in there so i can crank up the boost


----------



## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I was told that he had maf problems. He tore the maf wires and tried to fix it himself which caused problems. He told me himself if he had e85 locally he would go back to it.
> 
> I know the tune is switchable back to gas, but you should at least have in your mind it shouldn't be that easy to just pump in gas, and stick with one or the other.
> 
> I think this turbo kit shows the thresholds are in the tuning not the motor..


just for the record, my MAF was fine and the wiring was done correctly. at the time i just didn't know if the wiring was the problem. ultimately the problem was A) the 550cc injectors or B) the 93 oct tune to accommodate the 550cc injectors. i don't know which it was because i ended up going back to OEM injectors and having UM flash my car with the standard 93 oct tune and the problem immediately went away (P0171 code, rough idle, low rpm surging/bucking, strong thud when letting off throttle). i have a feeling it was the injectors though, i consistently had issues with them and frankly it pissed me off because they were supposedly new when gabe put them into my car.

not slamming UM here, their dedication to this platform is nearly unrivaled, and the quality of their products is top notch. i'm still a huge UM advocate and look forward to have more $$$ so that i can pick up an SRI and possibly go turbo in the future. :thumbup:


----------



## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

DerekH said:


> Unless he already has a rear sway...


And a fat one at that. Didn't occur to me...I've removed a few front bars over the years.


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Sorry...*

NO WATERFEST for me 

For those who wanted to see this in the raw - my car will NOT be ready for Waterfest.
It'll be @ APTuning for another 2+ weeks (glad my city has great public transportation).
I'm very disappointed, but it's beyond my control.

HEP/UM SRI 

The SRI sounds sweet and gives about a 20 punch on wHP. You can feel it punch.
It's an expensive mod. So I would just do a Carbonio CAI if you want the sound.
But don't waste your money on a CAI if you're going Turbo; it gets deleted.

BW/UM TURBO 

We've had some minor and major bumps. It's a VERY expensive mod, and will likely
become a 5-Week implementation affair. Will post the net-effect when it's all done.
Turbo blanket, DP wrap.

SWAY BAR(s)

Yes, that was 28mm on the front. I was thinking stiffer on the turns. Maybe I'll dial that down to 
26mm.

BRAKES

Upgrading to 288mm cross drill / slotted, SS lines, Akebono. Hoping to be able to stop the thing
@ 250+ wHP.

Have fun @ Waterfest!!!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

OldPhart said:


> NO WATERFEST for me
> 
> For those who wanted to see this in the raw - my car will NOT be ready for Waterfest.
> It'll be @ APTuning for another 2+ weeks (glad my city has great public transportation).
> ...


The 26mm ecs front sway I have is borderline over kill! Tyrolsport bushings, stainless lines, and higher quality pads should be good enough. Change your fluid yearly and the stock brake size are pretty good.


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Swaying*

kevin-

I won't do any sway bars til Spring. I had just figured bigger is better, right... maybe not.

Agreed on the bushings. I'm upgrading to Whiteline control arm & trailing arm poly bushings.
Trying to tighten things up in prep for all that torque / under / over steering w/ more power.

Going from 180 wHP to 250+ makes me nervous. I drove C2's Thunder Bunny back in Feb,
and it was insane power. Glad it had BBK & upgrade suspension.

Peace.

-chris


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ya, but even bone stock the Golf is no Srt4. I mean that in a good way. Flash the Srt4 stock and you get killed in a loss of control accident on the highway if you don't upgrade the suspension. I have a feeling with as little as a rear sway and cup kit 250-290 whp you should be good to go. Just worry about the transmission and differential that VW thought would be funny to make out of glass.

Brakes is another story, but bbk aren't needed lol, I would try putting that 300$ for the upsized gti rotors into pads, fluid, and the bushings. Go from there. Ecs sells that GTI/GLI rotor upsize kit for front and rear, and it reuses the stock calipers, so you will still be able to use the bushings, pads, and stainless lines.


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

What's a "cup kit?"


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

Also, why do you say "... the transmission and differential that VW thought would be funny to make out of glass."


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

it goes kaboom


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> it goes kaboom


This exactly.


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

hmm... 

I thought our German engineered cars were so "over-built" (at least regarding the engine).

Assuming that's generally true, why would they use poor quality on tranny & diff?

Seems an inconsistent application of quality for such core components.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

OldPhart said:


> hmm...
> 
> I thought our German engineered cars were so "over-built" (at least regarding the engine).
> 
> ...


It's a 16,000$ economy car... What about it makes you think the trans and motor should be able to hold added torque flawlessly?


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

Flawlessly? Never thought that, which is why I pressed people about doing IE forged rods early on. 
But BW, APT, UM & even IE said internals should be OK to ~ 300. So they don't want my money...?

Eventually I planned to upgrade some internals anyhow. Meanwhile, will just drive it civilized. 
No need to beat the hell out of it (nice bunny). A new tranny would be OK, as I'd love to run a 6 sp & 
Haldex. Maybe it'll be like a *Golf 2.5L R* :thumbup:

So it may be an economy car, but I've never enjoyed an economy car soooooo much.
It hasn't skimped on fun, for sure. 

PS - I cannot describe how big my smile gets when that SRI starts to howl as I blow around
the twisties... it is soooooo sweet!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

OldPhart said:


> Flawlessly? Never thought that, which is why I pressed people about doing IE forged rods early on.
> But BW, APT, UM & even IE said internals should be OK to ~ 300. So they don't want my money...?
> 
> Eventually I planned to upgrade some internals anyhow. Meanwhile, will just drive it civilized.
> ...


The motor is good to 400 with a headspacer most likely. The trans and flywheel mounting point are what are weak. I'm saying this car wasn't made with the intentions of seeing these kind of numbers. Things WILL break, some soon some over time. Has the transmission held up? Ya, there are guys stage 3 on the stock 5 speed, and there are some that had the trans grenade stage 2! 

I can't wait, all I need is a Damn turbocharger and I can get to bolting all this crap on. Hopefully I can find a steal on a ball bearing t4 flanged 6262 and have it done for next summer. But don't haz spare money now, bags come first.

We sure as hell have a fine motor as a base tho! Free'est flowing factory head VW has yet to release, change out the handful of cheap parts and this motor is 800+whp capable. 

On topic - I really want to see what can be made with this kit and a upgraded maf without headspacer, internals and so on. Jeff sounded like the maf was limiting the room for power, not the motor.


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Big Picture*

ic:

So I'm clear... the SRI & Turbo mods are only *PART * of a larger picture (project), 
not after the holy grail of power for power's sake.

1. The larger picture is increased power / pull that can be driven, maintained, and enjoyed.

2. More forward pulling power = need for better braking power and better tires too.

3. More power = better suspension for handling that power while not grossly sacrificing comfort. 

4. Turbos mean more heat - everywhere: engine bay, DP, intake, pipes, wires... so adding an 
oil cooler, quality IC, synthetic oil, blanket, wraps, etc. are useful.

5. And yes, the risk is increased power causing failures in components not designed for such stress:
internals, clutch, transmission, differential, light bulbs (huh?)

6. Right. Gauges... got to keep tabs on what's happening, and regular checkups too (wazzup doc).

It's about the *WHOLE *driving *EXPERIENCE *- not just whose balls have the most thunder (huh?)

Some cars are for getting A2B, some are for show, and some are for go. I want all three. That's the goal.

:beer:


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

OldPhart said:


> ic:
> 
> So I'm clear... the SRI & Turbo mods are only *PART * of a larger picture (project),
> not after the holy grail of power for power's sake.
> ...


 I'm confused as to why this is in this thread...

Make your own build thread. :thumbup:


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

:facepalm:

Because I'm having APT / BW / UM do the same to my Golf, and this thread seemed a logical place to let people who are interested know that.

I began creating a build thread long before this thread, just haven't posted it yet. So that's why.

...

Anyone who's interested... I'll start posting up info, and pictures (when I get my car back).

Eventually, I plan to do some video too. Just have to solve the what & where camera problem.


----------



## OldPhart (Mar 5, 2012)

*Golf 2.5T Spawned to own Thread (below)*

for those interested...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5765954-Golf-2.5T-Project

.......


----------



## nasty_VW_habit (Oct 13, 1999)

SRI is what now?
I’m beginning research on putting 2.5T in mk4 wagon 



OldPhart said:


> ic:
> 
> So I'm clear... the SRI & Turbo mods are only *PART * of a larger picture (project),
> not after the holy grail of power for power's sake.
> ...


----------



## MKVDuBBiT (Apr 21, 2013)

SRI = Short Runner Intake manifold. 

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk


----------

