# Thinking of Converting to LPG????



## marcmorrow (Nov 19, 2012)

I am going to buy a Phaeton but due to the astronomical price of fuel in Northern Ireland I am going to convert it to LPG.

I am wanting to ask if anyone has converted to LPG and if so how have they found it as in any pro's and con's.

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## seawind3000 (Sep 17, 2010)

I had a 89 Cadillac Fleetwood FWD that I converted, I had a switch I could change on the fly. Slight WOT difference (very slight) and the same mileage +- 1 or 2 mpg. Great savings at the pump  

Mike


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi,

Basically, if you convert a used 3.2 petrol Phaeton to LPG the 5-year costs work out the same as buying a 3.0TDI in the first place.

The 3.0TDI has better torque and therefore acceleration than the petrol version, although the petrol one is reasonably OK.

This spreadsheet examines the total costs over 5 years of the various engine options, including buying an already-converted LPG or having it done yourself. In fact fuel costs are not the dominant expense that people think they are.

Owning a luxury car (of any brand) also carries a higher than average risk that there could be a very expensive repair which would be in proportion to the new cost of the car, rather than the used value. This would completely throw the calculations, but it's impossible to predict, of course.

I hope that helps a bit. The figures are just my best take, no guarantee of consistency! so they will obviously vary a lot by individual choices and events. MPGs are taken off official lists, but I think many people get much better personal figures.

Cheers,
Chris


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Chris,

you REALLY need to get out more!

How about coming to the GTG in December? You'll love it out here 

Stu

P.S. Glad I didn't see that spreadsheet before I bought two V10's, now I know why I'm poor


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## marcmorrow (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks for the help, the spreadsheet is more than I expected though appreciated.

Firstly the interest would not apply as I will be paying cash, I financed a car before and lost an absolute fortune.

Can I ask what rate you were using for fuel comparison? In Northern Ireland we have the highest fuel rates in the uk, Diesel is 1.43 at present, petrol 1.37 and LPG 0.74.

I have based my calculations on an average of 25mpg and 10k miles per year meaning cost of Diesel in year 1 is approx £2600 with lpg being £1345. The cost of conversion is approximately £2000 so would only take about 1.5 years before the savings start.

Working purely on price per mile after conversion I have 0.26 per mile for diesel and 0.13 for LPG.

I would rather pay out £2000 initially and have cheaper fuel in the long term.

Or to put it another way with fuel at todays prices diesel will be £13,000 over 5 years with LPG including cost of conversion being £8725.

Please feel free to correct me if you disagree?



Paximus said:


> Hi,
> 
> Basically, if you convert a used 3.2 petrol Phaeton to LPG the 5-year costs work out the same as buying a 3.0TDI in the first place.
> 
> ...


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## arthurgodsake (Nov 26, 2010)

£760 for bank interest lost. Where are you putting your money? I'll have some of that please.
Tim


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu,

I would rather do anything, even spreadsheets, than get on with proper work! I'll come to a GTG if I can find the car keys...

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> £760 for bank interest lost. Where are you putting your money? I'll have some of that please.
> Tim


Hi Tim,

Well, the spreadsheet is a couple of years old, and I though that figure kind of gave it a rosy reminiscent glow!

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Marc,

You are right, there are too many assumptions in there! One problem with doing spreadsheets is that they reveal the costs that we would rather not face, but always have and set to one side. After all, we require some sort of car whatever happens.

I decided not to do the Jeep LPG conversion because (a) I couldn't decide on which technology, (b) I wasn't impressed with the conversion shops I visited and (c) the payback was too long, and I can't predict the future to 1 year let alone 4... 

I used Petrol=1.35, diesel=1.45, LPG=0.78, LPG mileage 10% worse due to lower energy content, depreciation=22% pa, bank interest lost=3% (Ha!!), LPG conversion=£2,000. Maintenance=£800 based on dealer cost of annual service plus occasional disks/pads, one set of TPMS sensors, tyres every 20k etc, just a guess based on my actual Hyundai and Jeep receipts.

Putting in your figures gives the number below. I won't be drawn any more on numbers, it's too subjective and no doubt I have some errors in there. But if the conversion plans are fun then do them!!


Cheers,
Chris

LPG Phaeton for sale
Phaeton 3.2 conversion photos


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

Isn't the tax break on LPG about to expire, I would really look at that first. When I looked a year ago. The government position was that they wouldn't extend it anymore.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2011/tiin6330.pdf


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## Irish Phaeton (Sep 6, 2010)

Chris
now I know I really am at home here... I thought I was the only one that "justified" car expenses on a spreadsheet
Hugh


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## DmcL (Sep 30, 2012)

just buy petrol and moan about the price of fuel like me :laugh:

suppose in my case fuelling the 3.2 will get me somewhat prepared for fuelling my old 2.5l E30 BMW after i turbocharge it.. may even still give better MPG than the phaeton when its boosting enough for something in the rough ballpark of 3-500hp lol


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Back in 2004 my 1st phaeton was purchased with an LPG conversion already fitted, it ran very well for the 130000mls I put on it, although it did have an appetite for spark plugs 
Slight downside was the tank cut the boot cacity down considerably (donut tank couldn't be fitted in spare wheel well due to suspension pump)
No unsightly filler either as it was behind the number plate in the bumper, plate was hinged


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

What colour?

If I remember correctly this car was converted to LPG.


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Paldi said:


> What colour?
> 
> If I remember correctly this car was converted to LPG.


It sure was that was my 2003 3.2, loved that colour combo of Aubergine and Sunny Beige wish I could find another


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## marcmorrow (Nov 19, 2012)

Thanks for the help guys, think I will bite the bullet and convert to LPG, to be honest I dont want to have the expense of running a diesel/petrol on todays prices.

Now all I need is someone to sell me a good Phaeton. I am in Northern Ireland so looks like I am going to have to find one in England and fly in.

I have already had 1 person try to get me with an ebay scam and another with apparently 61000 miles though no service history.

Good job I am patient.


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## feared (Aug 13, 2009)

Does anyone know if a W12 has been converted to LPG? I've heard of a Bentley Continental GT being done but never a Phaeton.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> feared :
> Does anyone know if a W12 has been converted to LPG? I've heard of a Bentley Continental GT being done but never a Phaeton.


Here's one: YouTube - W12 LPG

Chris


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## bilmac (Oct 10, 2012)

marcmorrow said:


> Thanks for the help guys, think I will bite the bullet and convert to LPG, to be honest I dont want to have the expense of running a diesel/petrol on todays prices.
> 
> Now all I need is someone to sell me a good Phaeton. I am in Northern Ireland so looks like I am going to have to find one in England and fly in.
> 
> ...


 Maybe, it would be a good idea for you to first, experience the car as it was designed, then make up your mind. you may decide that its two good to change.


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## DmcL (Sep 30, 2012)

theres one or two in donnelly and taggart VW in campsie industrial estate in derry/londonderry.

id nearly consider selling mine if not for the fact i only bought it a couple months ago and its still under warranty which is super handy because im taking the warranty for all its worth over the year its on the car. already had a new comfort battery, new torque converter and just about to get the C suffix J367 battery management controller new from VW under warranty at a cost of about £711 

if you were looking one in about a years time i might sell up though currenrly has 87k on the clock.. mind you everything has a price, depends how much your intending to spend. FWIW the warranty could be carried over should i sell the car. bought it about a month before discovering my ladyfriend is up the spout so a cheaper to run daily hack would ease the pain in my wallet lol


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## kart (Jun 20, 2012)

Please update after conversion with as much details as possible. Thanks.


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

4 years back I converted my V8 to LPG, advantages were much better in the past in the Netherlands. but still cheaper with only the disadvantage that I got no spare tyre and have to refuel every 400 km with a 67 litre tank. but my total range is now 600 on petrol and 400 on LPG so that is not bad.
I did the conversion together with a LPG meganic so if you want to convert a V8 to LPG I got some pictures to see how nice it is converted. (let me know if you need them)
If you check german websites you will see a lot of different conversions.
In my case I got a Landi system, the system registers when I need more power, if so it is mixing petrol with Lpg so the pistons get more lubrication on full power.
the gastank is in the sparetyre space (70 litres size) 90 litres didn't fit unfortunately, it was 1 cm to big. because the airsuspension compressor is also in the sparetyre space I had to move it into the bootspace, it just fit in the right corner with no modifications (I only created a nice cover with a space to put some stuff in.
The gas indicatior is nicely placed in the armrest and the filling hole is place behind the original petrol cap
So nobody can see it is a LPG converted Phaeton at the outside and inside.

jorg


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

this might be of interest

2004 LPG converted 3.2 V6 phaeton on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2004-VOLK...2398582?pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item19d6786bf6


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

I am about to start an LPG conversion on my W12. 
In Spain, LPG is 0,73 euros per litre whilst 98 RON gas is 1,58. 
I had my previous car (2007 BMW 330i) converted and the fuel cost dropped by 45%. In these cars and at today's fuel prices, it is a good investment. It also makes the car much easier to sell second hand. 
The cost of the full kit installed for the Phaeton is of 3.500 euros. It basically consists of two six-cilinder kits put together, plus a 100 litre tank in the boot (with the size of the boot in the Phaeton, it is not as bad as it was in the BMW where I lost half of my boot!). 
I have seen a couple conversions in youtube, but do not know about the experience of owners that had done this conversion on a W12. Anyone here wanting to share his experience?


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## entwisi (Feb 19, 2013)

an Interesting thread and one I somehow missed during my 14 week trawl of the forum when I first joined.. 

Obviously all the following is based on my ofetn weird and self centred view of the world and opinion so no offence meant if it contracdicts anyones view.

As someone who has had 4 LPG cars and covered over 250K miles between them on LPG I would say that whilst a start point the spreadsheet is OK it sort of misses the point IMHO. cars cost a certain amount per year in depreciation/servcing/odd repairs ( setting aside any major failure points as we simply can't say what these will be. They are the gamble that we all take in driving a more sophisticated car than a W123 Merc. ) so in reality the costs involved in LPG are that initial conversion cost ( ~ 1500 GBP for a V8, 3K for a W12 ) and then ongoing fuel savings/difference. All teh bank interest etc whilst is a cost is one you would have no matter what you choose to drive so IMHo is irrelevant. 

the reason i switched to using LPG cars is simple, I do 30K PA . so whilst showing at 10K the spreadsheet looks at a similar costings once you get into the sort of mileage a lot of people do of double the 10K then the difference starts to seriously rack up. I'm currently in a derv obviously and am OK with that but if we look at some basic fuel costings for me of 30K PA , diesel is 1.35, lpg 0.60 ( both from fuel stations less than a mile from my home), on diesel I get 37/38 on my usual commute, if I end up doing a lot of town work it drops to early 30s so I'll take an av of 36 as basis for calcs, you put 25 mpg for LPG I believe? Working on what my 2.5T V70 ( 27mpg ) and my A* 4.2 ( 19mpg )Id say that 23/4 is probably closer to what a 3.2 V8 would achieve. 

diesel 30000/36 = 833 gallons of fuel UK gallon = 4.54 litres so making £5105 totoal fuel cost per year
LPG 30000/24 = 1250 gallons of LPG making £3405...

I usually keep my car 4-5 years so a saving in fuel costs over that time of £8.5K, taking the cost of the conversion out still leaves me( or would if I'd gone this route) a nice 7K profit ( or effectively buying the car for me in the first place..... ) 

On top of that the LPG/Petrol car doesn;t have a DPF to worry about, the kit comes with new injectors etc so effectively the fuel injections system is brand new so unlikely to need repairs, the oil lasts longer due to cleaner burn, the emmissions are less for those of us that do care a tad about this blue/brown/green rock we are perched on etc. 

So, I run a derv but with my costsings an LPG V8 would be a much better bet.....



Anyone want to buy a nice 3.0 TDI????


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## Silky6053 (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi guys

I'm normally fairly local and don't usually need to do extended motorway driving. However, today I did a return drive from Stockport to Nottingham - 260 mile round trip. It was mostly motorway, A roads and some extended slowish roadworks. My 3.0 TDI returned 44.9 MPG which I thought was excellent. Around town I'm normally 26 - 28 MPG.

I previously had a 3.2 petrol 4x4 which I had converted to LPG. It was much cheaper to run than on petrol, but even with a large lpg tank range was not that good and I absolutely hated having to occasionally resort to petrol!

Glynn


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## Silky6053 (Dec 3, 2012)

p.s - went to Northampton - not Nottingham! I did go to the right place. Honest!


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## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

Silky6053 said:


> Hi guys
> 
> I'm normally fairly local and don't usually need to do extended motorway driving. However, today I did a return drive from Stockport to Nottingham - 260 mile round trip. It was mostly motorway, A roads and some extended slowish roadworks. My 3.0 TDI returned 44.9 MPG which I thought was excellent. Around town I'm normally 26 - 28 MPG.
> 
> Glynn



44.9 mpg that is 6.3 l per 100 km ? Or I'm wrong ? What speed did you have ?

cata.


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## Silky6053 (Dec 3, 2012)

Hi Cata

6.3 l per 100km is right. Speeds mostly 50 mph - 75 mph. In short runs 30 mph and 80+ mph.

Glynn


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## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

Silky6053 said:


> Hi Cata
> 
> 6.3 l per 100km is right. Speeds mostly 50 mph - 75 mph. In short runs 30 mph and 80+ mph.
> 
> Glynn












An enviable consumption.Monday we made ​​a trip of 270 km (167 miles I think). Finally the computer shows an average speed of 75 km / h (47mph) and a consumption of 9.4 l (31mpg). We drove in D and several times in S. Led by 50-70-100-120-140-160 km / h (31-44-62-75-87-99 mph). 
Now I saw your V6 is 2010 mine is 2007. Means that youth is to blame.

cata


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Here we are, installing a LPG twin kit for my W12


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)




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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Project finished. Excellent results. After 300 kms of 70% highway and 30% city driving:
LPG: 19 l/100 kms (12.4 mpg us) at 0.74 €/l against fuel RON 98: 15 l/100 kms (15.7 mpg us) at 1.58 €/l
That is 14.25 € / 100 kms against 23,7 € / 100 kms
That is 40% saving in fuel costs and 37.000 kms to pay off the investment (3.500 euros). 
I think it is well worth it, specially considering the car increases in value (at least in Spain with this outrageous fuel costs!) and makes it more attractive when reselling. 
And also it makes me feel better when refueling at the fuel station!


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Martin,
How many kms can you do out of a LPG tank?
By the way, how are you getting on with the lambda sensors and catalytic converter faults?

Gabriel


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## entwisi (Feb 19, 2013)

19L/100km = ~ 15 mpg UK I used to get around 17/18 mpg in teh 4.2 V8 A8 I owned so probably about right. IN UK diesel is currently ~1.35 gbp/litre and LPG I have locally at 60p/litre so 2.25 multiplier giving ~ 34mpg equivilant which is not that far behind the 38 I see from my 3.0 TDI...

Although teh though of buying 12 spark plugs every year doesn;t appeal much either...


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

...plus the pleasure of driving a 6.0 W12 engine (W12 owners will understand that), and with the running costs of a TDI!!!


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## phaetonsound (Aug 23, 2014)

I purchased my phaeton with LPG (prins) installed , but it was hard to accept for me, i need a trunk for car-audio instalation, so... time to change something..

First, big 100l tank - out...









shopping....

air pipes, PA - exactly same as factory, even colours  but i purchased only blue.









10 connectors:









and holders:











next step is air comperessor... i found a lot of free space in battery place, 8m of air pipe, pipe's connectors, and 3 mounts + shake-absorbers.










and the final....

65l tank in a temporary wheel place...










one 12h day, about 30euro/$40 and everything works as should, without any trouble codes....

EDIT: ohh i forgot, i did new front cover from 4mm MDF + same as factory "vinyl" i do not know what is called.


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Well done! Is it a 3.2 or a W12?


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## phaetonsound (Aug 23, 2014)

Engine is 3,2


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Nice


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