# who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from?



## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

i want a kit, i was gonna go ATP, but recently read some bad stuff ... whatd you say....all advice is appreciated greatly


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## XSiVE (Nov 1, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i want a kit, i was gonna go ATP, but recently read some bad stuff ... whatd you say....all advice is appreciated greatly







[HR][/HR]​
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAh bad stuff? I voted ATP, look at your other 2 choices. whos the bad ones here?!?!?


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## VeeDub2.0 (May 11, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (XSiVE)*

I'm not buying a complete kit from anyone. I'm picking up bits and pieces from other people. So far, I've got a brand new ATP manifold and downpipe, and some G60 injectors. Find a good, cheap turbo is going to be the hard part.


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## turbo8v (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (VeeDub2.0)*

Eip/hack shack
team psi /good luck getting in touch with them
matrix/dosen't make a kit for the 2.0


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## Jerry_HEAVEN (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (turbo8v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]matrix/dosen't make a kit for the 2.0[HR][/HR]​yeah, all of a sudden, they dropped the kit.....there seemed to be quite an interest for them, but im confused to why they dropped it....
i would second ATP cause i deal with them in person alot and they always take care of me......i dont know about the other companies, but you've probably heard "stories" of them....


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Thorax_Embalmer)*

They dropped the kit because they couldn't get 10 people to commit on a GB. They felt that there reputation would attract at least 10 people to get in on the GB. In the 2-3 months the Gb was planned, they still didn't get 10 people to pay on time. They felt ATP was obviously fulfilling the needs of the vw community, so they decided not to spend time on the kit at this time. They are presently devoting all their time towards the vr6 kit. The stg 1 vr6 put down [email protected] and [email protected] tonight at 7psi. This is a developmental car that has a 3" exhaust. The wastegate is also dumping to atmosphere on this car, so the production kit may not make this much power. Anyway, this car ran a 13.6 @ 109.98mph w/ a 2.38 60ft







It has a quaife but that's it for drivetrain. Damn good for $3495. If there is a need for the 8v kit in the future and they have time, they would produce the 8v kit.
HTH,
Justin(Matrix Bitch)


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vwmotorsports)*

ATP


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## VertigoGTI (Apr 1, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (WOB_GTI)*

If only Matrix had the 2.0 kit.... I'd be turbo'd soon
Justin, do you know if there is at least a manifold for the 8V's? If so, I'd like to at least pick that up from Jeremy even though he doesn't have the full kit.


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## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vertigobora)*

thanks for the info guys, by summer i will have purchsed the atp 8v stg 2....yeah im not too impressed with matrix


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## garef001 (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

Hey if you want to get the atp kit i have most of it. I might be willing to part it out. email me [email protected]


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## -DTM- (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vertigobora)*

He has a team psi manifold he'd like to get rid of. I'm not sure how much, but it's a nice piece. It has a place for an external wastegate which is a plus in my book. Give him a call at 503 443 1141 or email him at [email protected]


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## Gerapudo (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (WOB_GTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ATP







[HR][/HR]​


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## WindsorJetta8v (Mar 13, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Gerapudo)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ATP





















[HR][/HR]​forget it, no comment..


[Modified by WOB_GTI, 4:29 PM 2-28-2002]


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (WOB_GTI)*

A question guys!! What kind of chip are you going to run?? Anyone using eip chip for turbo application on an 8v?? Ok now I know some people are going to say eip is full of sh*t, but I think their products are good quality. It's just their service that sucks from what I heard on these boards and also to not make them touch your car. what do you think about the chip??


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vento 95 GL)*

well let's see, I had the an eip chip on my car when I was N/A , car ran good but damn CEL came on!!!
Now that I'm turbo, I have ATP turbo chip, and the damn CEL is on again. But I think that's just a case of having some emissions stuff unhooked.


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (turboit)*

how is your car running with the AtP chiP??? I heard the chip sucked!!! who makes the software?? etc... how much boost do you have?? stock injectors or not?? 
How is the drivability in part throtle situation??
thanks!!! I would like to try the eip chip if I go turbo!!! It's included in their kit which has similar specs in stage 1 as the ATP kit. 196 hp too
quote:[HR][/HR]well let's see, I had the an eip chip on my car when I was N/A , car ran good but damn CEL came on!!!
Now that I'm turbo, I have ATP turbo chip, and the damn CEL is on again. But I think that's just a case of having some emissions stuff unhooked.[HR][/HR]​


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vento 95 GL)*

quote:[HR][/HR]how is your car running with the AtP chiP??? I heard the chip sucked!!! who makes the software?? etc... how much boost do you have?? stock injectors or not?? 
How is the drivability in part throtle situation??
thanks!!! I would like to try the eip chip if I go turbo!!! It's included in their kit which has similar specs in stage 1 as the ATP kit. 196 hp too
.[HR][/HR]​So far the car runs good at 6-7psi. partial throttle off boost car runs fine, but once you start dipping into boost driveability goes out the window(due to the fmu). From what George @atp told me, is they burn their own chip programs. I'm also running stock injectors.
I think as long as you have the FMU you will experience problems at part throttle on boost situations


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (turboit)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
partial throttle off boost car runs fine, but once you start dipping into boost driveability goes out the window(due to the fmu). 
I think as long as you have the FMU you will experience problems at part throttle on boost situations[HR][/HR]​how can you fix this problem?? wait let me think!! hmmmm SDS , right???


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vento 95 GL)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
partial throttle off boost car runs fine, but once you start dipping into boost driveability goes out the window(due to the fmu). 
I think as long as you have the FMU you will experience problems at part throttle on boost situations
how can you fix this problem?? wait let me think!! hmmmm SDS , right???[HR][/HR]​Well what some guys are going is G60 310cc injs and ATP chip tuned for that application. some of these guys are using adjustable fpr ala cartech. not fixed fmu ala vortech.
Another route I was thinking about was going with 245-250cc injectors, with stock chip, and maybe a chip to retard timing. Which is good for about 10psi. the injectors can work with the stock chip cuz they are within the 25% deviance from stock size. Also an adjustable fpr is recommended for this as you can further tune the system. And at 10psi the injectors are at less than 80% duty cycle.
I got this info from Rodney at JRC


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (turboit)*

turboit!! thanks a lot !!! some really interesting info!!! I was thinking !!! if you run the atp chip burned for the 310cc, would it still work even if let's say I start with 5-7psi or it would be overkill?? I think what you said about the 250cc injectors is nice, but i don't want stock chip because i don't want a speed limiter. I also prefer the cartech fmu as it is more flexible than vortech.
edit: Why would you need a chip to retard the timing?? Isn't our engine equiped with knock sensor that retards timing automatically ??


[Modified by vento 95 GL, 12:30 AM 3-1-2002]


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## VertigoGTI (Apr 1, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vento 95 GL)*

guys, keep talking.... I'm taking notes on this one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








The knock sensors aren't consistent, at least in my experience.


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## Jerry_HEAVEN (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vento 95 GL)*

quote:[HR][/HR]!!! if you run the atp chip burned for the 310cc, would it still work even if let's say I start with 5-7psi or it would be overkill?? I think what you said about the 250cc injectors is nice, but i don't want stock chip because i don't want a speed limiter.[HR][/HR]​When i got my ATP chip/310cc injectors from ATP, i told them my target was 10-12psi...so George burnt me a chip that would supply sufficient fuel from 7-12psi accordingly......i guess if you wanted to run lower boost, then you would have to get the chip re-burned







not the most convenient/perfect when you wanna turn down/up the boost, but i've had no problems with it yet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Thorax_Embalmer)*

so when i order a kit from george i will have to give him an estimate of boost i will be runnin? i would like to run 7-12 as well.....just scared my clutch or trans will die


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## TurboABA (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

If you want headaches, go for the *E*verything*I*s*P*romises stuff!








I only wasted about 8 months waiting for thier stuff. I'm still waiting for some piping!









I'd rather leave the car stock than go back to those retards!


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## Lotust (Apr 5, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (TurboABA)*

where is ATP's "kit" i dont see any kits on a website
thanks


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## GoFastChickenwing (Jun 26, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Lotust)*

ATP doesn't sell a 100% complete kit. They are the best option though. Here's a pic of a stage 2 ATP system installedon a MkIII.


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

quote:[HR][/HR]yeah im not too impressed with matrix[HR][/HR]​ Douglas,
Just curious......any reason????
Best,
Jeremy


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## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? ([email protected])*

Well I was supposed to be a part of the ABA GB for a stg 1 and it fell thru so i was really bummed, any whoo, i traded in on march 13th for a 00 black 1.8t GTI and had an APR chip put in.....and im happy


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## vwmotorsports (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

Only 7 people commited to the gb when 10 were needed for it to go threw. So why were you mad at Matrix's when the GB fell threw?


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## Gerapudo (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vwmotorsports)*

Maybe because for Matrix to put time into the 2.0 kit they had to have 10 guarenteed people to buy them, well they can't sell what they don't have so... The market is being swept up by other companies.
Jeremey have you even released the VR6 kit yet????


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## TurboABA (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (vento 95 GL)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
edit: Why would you need a chip to retard the timing?? Isn't our engine equiped with knock sensor that retards timing automatically ??

[Modified by vento 95 GL, 12:30 AM 3-1-2002][HR][/HR]​*If you wait for the knock sensor to retard the timing, it's too late already. The knock sensor only works after it detects DETONATION. If you program the chip properly, you never get it. Plus when the knock sensor retards the timing, it takes it back way too far. This causes crappy performance. With a chip you can take it back just enough to be safe and not loose tones of power!*


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## 98vwgti (Sep 13, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (TurboABA)*

tons?


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## 2.0 turbo (Apr 13, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

was that you rabbit jake who put pics of my car in here?? would you mind snapping a few after I get my new bumpers on and get the beast painted? probably won't be for a month or so. Thanks
also, I still don't have my turbo back from ATP....THEY SUCK!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (2.0 turbo)*

Go atp. The 8v stuff seems to fit well. There Vr6 stuff leaves alot to be desired.


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## TREK'in (Mar 31, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...yeah im not too impressed with matrix[HR][/HR]​I have the only Stage I OBD II kit from Matrix and can say I am less than impressed as well.
I am sure this will elicit a reply from Matix .... Josh/Jeremy -- feel free to call me if you'd like to discuss


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (TREK'in)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...yeah im not too impressed with matrix
I have the only Stage I OBD II kit from Matrix and can say I am less than impressed as well.
I am sure this will elicit a reply from Matix .... Josh/Jeremy -- feel free to call me if you'd like to discuss[HR][/HR]​ Steve,
I'm sorry to hear that you're now less than impressed with us. According to this thread, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?&id=155378&postid=1258582#1258582, you said "Major thanks to Matrix Engineering," "I highly recommend Matrix!!!" and "...can't sing Matrix enough praise!!"
But I'm sure I know why you're now upset. You're looking for turbo software from us for your now-custom turbo kit(ATP FMIC, FMU, etc). However, there are a few issues which prohibit us from being able to help you out:
1. We haven't even developed the stage 2 software you're looking for and we no longer support the 8V kit. The kit you purchased USED from a customer of ours was a beta kit. Moreover, you purchased this kit almost 6 months before we were even thinking about releasing the 8V kits. And as I'm sure our development customer told you, we never finalized the software that is in your kit as the kit was sold to you before we could do so.
2. You've now added an ATP FMIC and an FMU or FPR(I can't remember which) and are now running more boost. As you know, we don't use ATP components, nor FMU's. There is NO WAY we can develop software with components we don't have or don't use. 
If all you needed was a chip containing our turbo software that we had already completed, there would be no reason for us not to help you out. We'd be more than happy to do so. We've certainly gone over and above to help you get this far, haven't we? 
Unfortunately though, with the modifications you've made(ATP FMIC and FMU), we have simply no way to get you the software you're looking for. Sorry.
Let me know if we can be of help in any other way.
Best regards,
Jeremy


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## TREK'in (Mar 31, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? ([email protected])*

quote:[HR][/HR]...yeah im not too impressed with matrix
I have the only Stage I OBD II kit from Matrix and can say I am less than impressed as well.
I am sure this will elicit a reply from Matix .... Josh/Jeremy -- feel free to call me if you'd like to discuss
Steve,
I'm sorry to hear that you're now less than impressed with us. According to this thread, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?&id=155378&postid=1258582#1258582, you said "Major thanks to Matrix Engineering," "I highly recommend Matrix!!!" and "...can't sing Matrix enough praise!!"
But I'm sure I know why you're now upset. You're looking for turbo software from us for your now-custom turbo kit(ATP FMIC, FMU, etc). However, there are a few issues which prohibit us from being able to help you out:
1. We haven't even developed the stage 2 software you're looking for and we no longer support the 8V kit. The kit you purchased USED from a customer of ours was a beta kit. Moreover, you purchased this kit almost 6 months before we were even thinking about releasing the 8V kits. And as I'm sure our development customer told you, we never finalized the software that is in your kit as the kit was sold to you before we could do so.
2. You've now added an ATP FMIC and an FMU or FPR(I can't remember which) and are now running more boost. As you know, we don't use ATP components, nor FMU's. There is NO WAY we can develop software with components we don't have or don't use. 
If all you needed was a chip containing our turbo software that we had already completed, there would be no reason for us not to help you out. We'd be more than happy to do so. We've certainly gone over and above to help you get this far, haven't we? 
Unfortunately though, with the modifications you've made(ATP FMIC and FMU), we have simply no way to get you the software you're looking for. Sorry.
Let me know if we can be of help in any other way.
Best regards,
Jeremy[HR][/HR]​Jeremy -
Let's take the points one at a time.
1. Yes, when the kit was purchased Matrix took the position of assisting in any way possible. I can say that Matrix has rated a grade of C in this area. In the beginning Matrix seemed more than willing to assist. What you didnt say until just now was you couldn't, or should I say wouldn't, help beyond a certain point. 
As far as the post you referenced earlier -- after a frustrating period of sub par assistance from Matrix my opinion has changed -- which Matrix had full control over.
2. My "now custom" set up is custom because the seller of the kit screwed me with the plumbing from your original kit. After consulting Matrix I had no choice but to install an UNDER BATTERY IC as you could not refab new plumbing. In fact, Matrix referenced me to ATP for plumbing. Shall I dig up the e-mails and post them?
3. Yes, I was informed that this was a beta kit and that Matrix would ship new software upon its availability/testing. What you did not tell me, even when I was inquiring about the kit was that it triggered the CE light due to running rich. I had to find that out AFTER the CE light kept triggering and I asked Matrix about it. To which I was told ....."yes, this is the last known problem with the software." 
4. The only item I am running that is not part of the Matrix kit is an ATP under-battery mount IC/plumbing. See item # 2.
5. My own input -- did you not at some point also move some Stage 2 8V items to the Stage 1 kit? Injectors I believe it was? 
Let's get right to the point ... my opinon of Matrix would not have changed if the scenario were different. What you need to redeem yourselves:
1. Obtain the proper information when replying to a post. Although I have inquired about certain items, I am running an under-battery IC (see point #2), all original Matrix kit parts (including your 5 BAR FPR) and I have not changed any boost settings at any time. I think changing anythingbefore the kit fully functions would be a silly thing to do.
2. Follow through on what you originally promised to do -- assist me in obtaining the proper software (and whatever else) that has the system perform the way it's meant to. This includes but is not limited to making good with GIAC as you know I have spoken with them on several occasions.
I want nothing more here than to have a properly functioning MATRIX kit -- to which I thought I had your assistance.
Surprise me guys ... I'd love nothing more than to be able to honestly praise Matrix again.


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## turbo4dr8v (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (TREK'in)*

im happy with my atp kit and everything fit pretty good


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## [email protected] (Jan 30, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (TREK'in)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Jeremy -
Let's take the points one at a time.
1. Yes, when the kit was purchased Matrix took the position of assisting in any way possible. I can say that Matrix has rated a grade of C in this area. In the beginning Matrix seemed more than willing to assist. What you didnt say until just now was you couldn't, or should I say wouldn't, help beyond a certain point. 
As far as the post you referenced earlier -- after a frustrating period of sub par assistance from Matrix my opinion has changed -- which Matrix had full control over.
2. My "now custom" set up is custom because the seller of the kit screwed me with the plumbing from your original kit. After consulting Matrix I had no choice but to install an UNDER BATTERY IC as you could not refab new plumbing. In fact, Matrix referenced me to ATP for plumbing. Shall I dig up the e-mails and post them?
3. Yes, I was informed that this was a beta kit and that Matrix would ship new software upon its availability/testing. What you did not tell me, even when I was inquiring about the kit was that it triggered the CE light due to running rich. I had to find that out AFTER the CE light kept triggering and I asked Matrix about it. To which I was told ....."yes, this is the last known problem with the software." 
4. The only item I am running that is not part of the Matrix kit is an ATP under-battery mount IC/plumbing. See item # 2.
5. My own input -- did you not at some point also move some Stage 2 8V items to the Stage 1 kit? Injectors I believe it was? 
Let's get right to the point ... my opinon of Matrix would not have changed if the scenario were different. What you need to redeem yourselves:
1. Obtain the proper information when replying to a post. Although I have inquired about certain items, I am running an under-battery IC (see point #2), all original Matrix kit parts (including your 5 BAR FPR) and I have not changed any boost settings at any time. I think changing anythingbefore the kit fully functions would be a silly thing to do.
2. Follow through on what you originally promised to do -- assist me in obtaining the proper software (and whatever else) that has the system perform the way it's meant to. This includes but is not limited to making good with GIAC as you know I have spoken with them on several occasions.
I want nothing more here than to have a properly functioning MATRIX kit -- to which I thought I had your assistance.
Surprise me guys ... I'd love nothing more than to be able to honestly praise Matrix again.[HR][/HR]​ Steve,
Just FYI, I don't want to start a pissing match here. 
My reflections on your points:
1. Wouldn't and couldn't are two *very* different. We did agree to help out in any way possible and we have helped out in all the ways we could. However, what you're asking(new software) for isn't possible any longer. See below.
2. Should our customers actions reflect badly on us? Is it our fault he did not send everything? The sale of this beta kit had nothing to do with us in that we didn't sell it to you--our customer did. Our job was simply to support you in any way we could. The beta kit you bought, at least 6 months before we were even considering releasing the kit, was our in-house development kit. Again, it was one we never fully finished. We built it to decide if there was product potential and a potential market. We eventually determined that there was not a market, hence our decision to discontinue the line. As well, we couldn't fab new plumbing for a kit that we no longer had.
3. Like I said before, the kit was sold to you by our customer before we could ever finish dialing in the software. And you're right, we said we would ship new software upon it's availability. However, since we discontinued the 8V kits, the software never became available.
4. The software you have is for a non-intercooled kit. An i/c adds many different dimensions to developing new software. 
5. No, we never swtiched any items from stage 2 to 1 because we never made a stage 2 8V kit.

1&2. The problem is that you have now added an i/c, which brings another dimension to the picture. There is no way we can finish software for the stage 1 kit, let alone your now-custom "stage 2" kit, without a test car at our own facility. Unlike some other companies that sell software, we spend considerable time on the dyno in developing software before sending it out. We can't just haphazardly come up with what we think might work. 
Making good with GIAC? They have nothing to do with this situation. While we do develop the software in conjunction with GIAC for our turbo kits, GIAC can't finish the software for us, nor can we for that matter. 
Don't get us wrong Steve, we want you to have a properly functioning Matrix kit too. However, like I said before, the kit you bought is the first prototype kit. There might be some issues with the software that need to be addressed, and we would have addressed them for you free of charge and with no reservation if we would have continued with the 8V development. Unfortunately, as you know, we don't do any 8V development any more and have no 8V turbo components either.
You're asking something from us that we simply CANNOT provide. If we were still doing 8V turbo kits, we would certainly be in a position to help you out. But without any 8V turbo components or test cars (you have the ONLY kit of this type), we have no way to finish the software you're after.
I'm sorry that we can't help you out and deliver what we once said we could.
Best,
Jeremy


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## TREK'in (Mar 31, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? ([email protected])*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Steve,
Just FYI, I don't want to start a pissing match here. 
My reflections on your points:
1. Wouldn't and couldn't are two *very* different. We did agree to help out in any way possible and we have helped out in all the ways we could. However, what you're asking(new software) for isn't possible any longer. See below.
2. Should our customers actions reflect badly on us? Is it our fault he did not send everything? The sale of this beta kit had nothing to do with us in that we didn't sell it to you--our customer did. Our job was simply to support you in any way we could. The beta kit you bought, at least 6 months before we were even considering releasing the kit, was our in-house development kit. Again, it was one we never fully finished. We built it to decide if there was product potential and a potential market. We eventually determined that there was not a market, hence our decision to discontinue the line. As well, we couldn't fab new plumbing for a kit that we no longer had.
3. Like I said before, the kit was sold to you by our customer before we could ever finish dialing in the software. And you're right, we said we would ship new software upon it's availability. However, since we discontinued the 8V kits, the software never became available.
4. The software you have is for a non-intercooled kit. An i/c adds many different dimensions to developing new software. 
5. No, we never swtiched any items from stage 2 to 1 because we never made a stage 2 8V kit.

1&2. The problem is that you have now added an i/c, which brings another dimension to the picture. There is no way we can finish software for the stage 1 kit, let alone your now-custom "stage 2" kit, without a test car at our own facility. Unlike some other companies that sell software, we spend considerable time on the dyno in developing software before sending it out. We can't just haphazardly come up with what we think might work. 
Making good with GIAC? They have nothing to do with this situation. While we do develop the software in conjunction with GIAC for our turbo kits, GIAC can't finish the software for us, nor can we for that matter. 
Don't get us wrong Steve, we want you to have a properly functioning Matrix kit too. However, like I said before, the kit you bought is the first prototype kit. There might be some issues with the software that need to be addressed, and we would have addressed them for you free of charge and with no reservation if we would have continued with the 8V development. Unfortunately, as you know, we don't do any 8V development any more and have no 8V turbo components either.
You're asking something from us that we simply CANNOT provide. If we were still doing 8V turbo kits, we would certainly be in a position to help you out. But without any 8V turbo components or test cars (you have the ONLY kit of this type), we have no way to finish the software you're after.
I'm sorry that we can't help you out and deliver what we once said we could.
Best,
Jeremy[HR][/HR]​Jeremy -
My intention was to not start a pissng match here either hence " .... Jeremy/Josh, call me if you'd like to discuss." 
Reflecting on your reflections ....
1. I will give credit where credit is due. Matrix did assist with questions during the install and did assist in fabricating a new oil feed extension so that oil gauges could be installed. Where Matrix shied away and provided no definitive assistance was with the chip/plumbing. Information was disseminated but no solution was ever provided. In fact, responses just stopped coming all together.
2. When Matrix accepts a sizable financial transaction so your customer can repay his debt to Matrix, then yes, your customer's actions reflect on your business. As a business person, when you accept transaction fees (especially for what was fabbed by Matrix with plans to become a full release kit) it should be made certain that ALL parts are being sent with what's purchased. Would it have been that difficult to say " .......... are all the parts in there? Are you certain?" I believe the reply I received when I told you I got screwed and couldn't get in touch with your buyer was ... " well that's <insert name here>"
As far as fabbing a new kit, you had just completed your 8V OBD I kit and your customer was out "tooling around" testing it out ... coming back in a few weeks for a Stage II upgrade. OBD I and OBD II parts wouldn't be all that different for plumbing to have been refabbed.
3. * Exactly! One of my points.* Jeremy, there was no warning at all! No hint, no inkling! I had to read it on Vortex! Matrix left me high and dry with a less then acceptable chip. No phone call? No e-mail to let me know it might be a good idea to source other solutions? Perhaps some suggestions?







Very dissappointing.
What would you do if your VR6 manifold supplier stopped sending you manifolds with no warning and you had to read it somewhere? I think you get the point. 
The rest of the reflections hone down to one point ...... it was never disclosed to me that the software was incomplete when I purchased the kit. Matrix waited to see what would happen. Poor business practice guys.
Second, taking the stance that my system is totally different is a cop out. It was Matrix who referenced me to ATP for plumbing. Matrix knew there way to obtain the plumbing for the kit unless it was custom produced. Even then it wouldnt have been the same as the original kit. 
As far as GIAC, Matrix fed them information that was not correct which blocked any future attempt at having their input for a solution -- again poor business practice.
You're last comment about helping if you continued development of the 8V kit .... gentleman, in any business when a customer purchases something, a sound company assists its customers even if products are no longer being produced or developed -- especially if the part is an easlily obtainable part. Case in point -- I just received, from a well known company, a replacement serial cable that has not been produced in over 5 years. They went out of their way (not too far) to assist.
I was pretty content on making due on my own until Matrix's interactions with GIAC .. to me that was the final chess move. Matrix's actions have spoken louder than words. 
a. No disclosure of defect when purchasing the beta kit
b. Poor business practices regarding original merchandise transactions
c. Complete lack of follow through & communication
d. Inadequate customer service
Following up with revised software, having me run Dyno's here in the NE and providing you the necessary papers/feedback ceratinly was an option, but Matrix seems to be content in washing their hands of this kit.
I recall a quote from a marketing class in my MBA days.... "The customer is not always right, but they are powerful." How true that is.
I won't be replying further to this posting... if you wish to discuss this or provide alternate solutions please e-mail or call me directly. 
Let's try to come to an amicable solution.
Best Regards,
Steve



[Modified by TREK'in, 12:31 PM 4-20-2002]


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## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (TREK'in)*

I am happy with what Strictly European is doing with my car. I finished product is far superior to what ATP offers. Many of the base componments that ATP offers are great. Manifold and chip are great from my understanding. 
I am currently running a Team PSI manifold and downpipe. The rest is all custom from SEM and I have an ATP chip on order.
I personally don't like ATP FMIC kit because the pipe looks like poop and from my understanding it is not even Stainless steel so it will rust on the inside.







For the same money if not a little more I ot nice 304 stainless pipes in 2.5" polished and looking nice.


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## 97VenomGTI (Dec 28, 1999)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (GTI2lo)*

Do you have pics of your front mount intercooler? 
-Danny


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## Dans_gti (Feb 20, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (97VenomGTI)*

Does any one have a link to the ATP website that would be cool to post here. Thanks..


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Dans_gti)*

http://www.vwturbo.com


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## ophatlineo (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

you can buy my turbo setup..look in the golfIII/JettaIII classifieds.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (WOB_GTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ATP







[HR][/HR]​
you


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## psi (Oct 18, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (ophatlineo)*

One thing I'd like to say about motronic(2.0 and v6),is that they all run different.You can take two identical cars and they will both run different.Sensors readings vary quite a bit after some time(sometimes not enough to trigger the CE light).
A chip that works well on one car may not work properly on another car.


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## Gerapudo (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (psi)*

wow, did you just say that chuck?
I agree 100% http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
chip tuning sucks imo.
thats why i say, bring on the standalone!!!


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## 10 bar turbo (Dec 16, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (TREK'in)*

i would deffinately go to matrix team psi is out even thou not list i have personally been throught hell waiting on mr. quinton i have talked to every person that offer's a kit for the aba jeremy and joush are the hook up they know what works know the product and know the limitation's most guy do not want to hear that they want hey yeah i can do it there is more to tuning a car than that a good friend of mine brice at alamo-autosports had to blow a couple of motor's to find out the edge on the focus engine jousha deffinately knows the vw's and audi's bar none most guy's just do not have the money to step up to the temple i mean trying to get gob's of power with factory ecu's some add on fuel trash (fmu,secondary injector controller's and the like do it right the first time 4 injectors not eight the right ones not hey what about a v8 mercedes or a australlian escort get real guy's anybody on here who thinks any tuners goes digging through the trash pile to find preformance parts is way out the i mean there is something to be said for a junkyard dog but hey a corky bell system is just that not some cobbled up ******** perfection takes time there is no cookie cutter approach as long as blocks and heads are sand cast every one is different period so hey get a big wizbang from whoever w a head gasket spacer and what ever you want mixed deisel nitro mentane wahtever have your moment of bliss then put it on track and road atlanta and run full petite le mans' then drive home to california no trailer queens hero hey before i round this thing because becaause i know it will get a response i have personally three friends going to mississippi gulf coast for this blow out car cruise all fast ass car's 10/11/9 second beast's import and domestic street driven they all got in there cars and drove there and will drive back so kepp it fast on the straight's and faster on the turns schuy style 

but to the point at hand
WHAT EVER YOU BUY MAKE SHURE YOU HAVE THE TECH SUPPORT BECAUSE I KNOW SOME OF US DO
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (10 bar turbo)*

you bought a USED kit from some guy, and want matrix to help you out anyway they can.

even if they STILL made the kits, i would not help you!
Why should they, you did not get it from them! You got it 3rd party.
Thats like asking VW to warentee your car you bought used. Fat chance.
lets take it a step further....
you bought a BETA kit!!! This means that it was never even released for sale to the public, but for the guy who was WILLING to take the risks ascociated with beta testing. 
When you bought the used kit, not only was this risk passed onto you, but you LOOSE the support of the company researching it.
ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT, matrix has done NOTHING unethical. NOTHING.
your just a typical vortex buyer that notonly wants to buy "like new parts at broken prices", but also wants to be treated with customer support after the sale.
when you buy used stuff, you get it as is.
i could just go on and on. 
ive never even bought a thing from matrix.


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (GoFastChickenwing)*

I was just curious, but does ATP sell the intercooler with the kit? I know it comes with the piping but what about the intercooler? I've looked on there site and it doesn't LOOK like it, but im just curious from someone that has actually bought it.. Thanks!


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## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (MunKyBoy)*

I believe you can buy the piping seperate from the I/C and vice versa or just both together. When I bought my kit from ATP I bought the intercooler kit seperately from the rest of the kit. about $795 piping included


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## PARTY_BOY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (turboit)*

I will have a 2l kit avail to the public in the next few weeks.
I forgot to mention that its not made by ATP.


[Modified by PARTY_BOY, 3:27 AM 12-19-2002]


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## JoshmkII (Feb 15, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

the 99-2001 2.0l stg. 1 kit doesnt come with an IC, the stg. 2 does however come with a FMIC.

stg. 2 isnt bad at $2800


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## troze1200 (Oct 12, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

"so when i order a kit from george i will have to give him an estimate of boost i will be runnin? i would like to run 7-12 as well.....just scared my clutch or trans will die"
Get real. You are going to pretty much add 75% mor power. You had better have a clutch and a diff before you even get started.


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## 01silvergtiglx (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (speed51133!)*

quote:[HR][/HR]you bought a USED kit from some guy, and want matrix to help you out anyway they can.

even if they STILL made the kits, i would not help you!
Why should they, you did not get it from them! You got it 3rd party.
Thats like asking VW to warentee your car you bought used. Fat chance.
lets take it a step further....
you bought a BETA kit!!! This means that it was never even released for sale to the public, but for the guy who was WILLING to take the risks ascociated with beta testing. 
When you bought the used kit, not only was this risk passed onto you, but you LOOSE the support of the company researching it.
ANY WAY YOU LOOK AT IT, matrix has done NOTHING unethical. NOTHING.
your just a typical vortex buyer that notonly wants to buy "like new parts at broken prices", but also wants to be treated with customer support after the sale.
when you buy used stuff, you get it as is.
i could just go on and on. 
ive never even bought a thing from matrix. [HR][/HR]​i have to agree with you totally, Matrix is not in the wrong. He bought a *used* kit. 


[Modified by 01silvergtiglx, 12:35 PM 1-24-2003]


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## Cheese302 (Oct 12, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (01silvergtiglx)*

I am planning to get a kit from atp, just wondering what everyones suggestions were about prep work to the engine, i know the cltch nmeeds to be changedm i am going to go with a new timing belt and water pump, and any other routine stuff that i think i should do, but I was wondering if anyone had other parts to suggest to buy in addition to the kit, and also if anything should ne done to the compression, and other internal engine work before the turbo is installed. 
thanks


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## Hessvr6 (Jan 21, 2003)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Cheese302)*

Two necessary things I see you haven't mentioned yet that you will need are a quaife LSD and an oil cooler.


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## BlkVentoTurbo (Oct 15, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Hessvr6)*

my kit is mostley atp, however not all custom piping fot the turbo and my fmu is the vortech i've found that atp's stuff is on average very good ,but i can;t get the to tell me how to hok my apex'i avcr and that erks me alot, cayse they sell the damn thng , what's the deal with timing sprockets and retarding the timing?
matrix is just another company with stuff , half the fun in tuning cars is the work to get it right, ....if you can't get it one place look somwhere else....there only like a million turbo 2.0's


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## Farfrhomdun (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

whoever you buy it from you should also factor in SDS because if you big eventually you will need it


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## PARTY_BOY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Farfrhomdun)*

quote:[HR][/HR]whoever you buy it from you should also factor in SDS because if you big eventually you will need it[HR][/HR]​Thats all fine and good for you,but there are much cheaper and easier ways to build a turbo 2l.
I run a split second piggyback with 30# injectors and have run as much as 16psi without a problem.


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## Farfrhomdun (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (PARTY_BOY)*

quote:[HR][/HR]whoever you buy it from you should also factor in SDS because if you big eventually you will need it
Thats all fine and good for you,but there are much cheaper and easier ways to build a turbo 2l.
I run a split second piggyback with 30# injectors and have run as much as 16psi without a problem.[HR][/HR]​FYI - I meant that for people who 'build up' ATP's stage II kit


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## PARTY_BOY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Farfrhomdun)*

Why would stage two or twelve make a damm bit of diff?I'm already running more boost than a STg2 with my set up.


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## gjacob (Apr 24, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (PARTY_BOY)*

Party boy, please expand as I am drooling right now.... hehe
Take care,
George


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## PARTY_BOY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (gjacob)*

http://www.splitsec.com/ look at the PSC1


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## gjacob (Apr 24, 2001)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (PARTY_BOY)*

thanks.


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## 2.0L8VBoy (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

Go with ATP. I just ordered one. I'll post some of my pics in a few weeks.


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## dubworld2.0t (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (2.0L8VBoy)*

new german performance (NGP) in aberdeen maryland! i have a 2001 2.0t runing 9lbs daily driver i put down 174whp and 200lbs ft tq!!! i have no problems!!! dave graf and ed sheets are awesome!! give them a call!!


_Modified by dubtek2.0t at 12:16 PM 5-23-2003_


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## CAB540 (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

I got my kit from ATP and I love it. The instructions are kinda weak but other than that I cant complain. If you have any questions just call and they walk you threw every thing. And lets face it who wants to deal with EIP??? I dont!


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## LanEvo8 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (98vwgti)*

ATP


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## 2.0 turbo (Apr 13, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (LanEvo8)*

you'll def need a clutch but I've been rockin 11psi for a year w/o the quaife and no probs yet!! I'll probably do it later, but you'll be fine w/o it for a while.


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## Got Dub (Apr 29, 2003)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (2.0 turbo)*

how much boost would it take a stock 2.0 to get in the high 13's/low 14's? whats the most you could boost with a stock 2.0 anyways?


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (Got Dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Got Dub* »_how much boost would it take a stock 2.0 to get in the high 13's/low 14's? whats the most you could boost with a stock 2.0 anyways?

10 psi
25psi


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## PARTY_BOY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (turbodub)*

I did a [email protected] on a hot day with a sidemount MK3 TDI intercooler and stock suspension







OH yea 16-17lbs.


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: who should i get a 2.0 turbo kit from? (PARTY_BOY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PARTY_BOY* »_I did a [email protected] on a hot day with a sidemount MK3 TDI intercooler and stock suspension







OH yea 16-17lbs.
someone needs a fmic or water ic REAL BAD
i did that 14.6 at 96 in an mk4 pushing 8 psi only but nice spearco fmic







and fmu and atp s h i t chip


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