# 3.6 24V Timing Chains Information Resource Thread BLV/CGRA/BLH Touareg/CC/Passat/Atlas/Q7/Cayenne



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Ok so I'm not putting together a step by step timing chain job thread because my projects usually don't follow the same steps as people who need to just fix their timing. Also doing the timing on a 3.6 is complicated job that requires you to separate the engine from the transmission. Some people may chose to pull the engine and transmission while others may prefer to just pull the transmission when touareg people might want to pull the engine. Its really a slippery slope and what needs to be done. Most importantly I want people to understand the process of re-timing the engine. where to get parts and the tools necessary.

The beauty of the 3.6 is that it has remained relatively unchanged since being introduced in 2006. I'm running a 2016 touareg engine on 2006 management.









List of vehicles this might pertain to:
*Potential USA 3.6 VR6 Donors* 
Touareg 2007+ 
Passat 2006+ 
CC 2009-2017
Porsche Cayenne 2006+
Audi Q7 2007-2010
Atlas 2018+

*Information Links*
It should be noted that the Facebook page "VW 2.8 | 2.9 | 3.0 | 3.2 | 3.6 VR6 Performance Group" is useful...sometimes.
Link for looking up VW/Audi Part numbers up: http://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/ or http://7zap.com/en/ 
jddaigle's B6 3.6 & 4motion Resource Thread
Nater's Head Gasket R&R and DIY 3.6L BLV 2008 Passat https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7471841-Head-Gasket-R-R-and-DIY-3-6L-BLV-2008-Passat
Nater's 3.6 engine saga: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5401088-I-spun-a-bearing-(now-with-pics!)

*Technical Guides and Manuals*

*Timing Chain Alignment Procedure for 2008+ engines only difference for 2006-2007 engines is the hpfp alignment tool. *

This website has an excellent reference including special tools required, locations of timing marks, and torque values but it has so many pop ups and other crap I HATE IT
Self Study Program for VR6 FSI Engines 2006-2007
Self Study Program for VR6 FSI Engines 2008 looks the same until page 19
2006 Passat Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2007-2008 Passat Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2009-2010 CC Quick Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2011-2012 CC Quick Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
2007-2010 Touareg Quick Reference Specification Book (torque specs)
How to remove the 2piece intake manifold
How to remove the 1piece intake manifold


*How can you tell if you need chains/guides/sprockets*
Maybe you have a fuel pump check engine light code, a lot of times people will swap high pressure fuel pump, sensors, fuel pump module when it’s really just a timing wear issue. 

So check vagcom measuring blocks 208 & 209. If out more than +/- 8* you need to pull the engine and or transmission and replace the chains & guides and should change sprockets and even the hpfp sprocket (it suffers wear on the lobe

Here is what Ross-tech says to check: http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/17433/P1025/004133









P1025 - Fuel Pressure Regulation Valve (N276): Mechanical Failure
Possible Symptoms
Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) ON
High pitched whining noise from engine when idling.
ECM may also have stored in memory, P0088 - Fuel Rail/System Pressure: Too High.
Possible Causes
When found in 2006 to 2009 Volkswagen Passat, Passat CC and Touareg with 3.6L gasoline engines it is possible the HPFP (High Pressure Fuel Pump) / camshafts are out of time.

Possible Solutions
When found in 2006 to 2009 Volkswagen Passat, Passat CC and Touareg with 3.6L gasoline engines:
Check MVB group [208] and [209] with engine idling, if [8 degrees(+/-)] or more the engine is considered out of time.
NAR (North American Region) users can see VW Tech Tip [01-16-05] for exact repair details.
RoW (Rest of World) users may find TPI 2040216/1 helpful.
When found in gas models with a remote battery such as the Q7, P0088 may be stored due to voltage drop issues. TSB 2025746 applies to the NAR market.


VW Tech Tip [01-16-05] 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ijtiag9nktc8vr/MC-10096053-0699.pdf?dl=0


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Oil Pump Bolt*
Early 3.6L VR6 FSI engines came from the factory with a lower grade oil pump bolt. This bolt could back out, and since the sprocket is driven by the timing chain this could cause the chain to jump time and lead to severe engine damage.

This problem was corrected in the production line for late MY2007 cars and beyond, but if you have a 2006 or 2007 car with a 3.6L VR6 you should assume the bolt is bad and can back out at any time unless you have proof that it has been replaced. Replacement is not difficult but it is labor-intensive due to the bolt’s location. More information can be found:

Oil Pump Bolt Failure Thread.
[URL="https://www.passatworld.com/forums/volkswagen-passat-b6-discussion/327507-3-6-oil-bolt-failure-reference-material.html]Passat World Oil Pump Bolt Failure Thread[/URL]

Proper Oil pump 12.9 bolt part number: Bolt #: N-104-044-04 Its under $2 so just replace it.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Tools*

*Ross Tech's VAG-Com* is my diagnostic tool of choice, I don't know if OBD-eleven can check blocks 208 & 209 for idle stabilization or not. https://store.ross-tech.com/shop/cat/VCDS









*T10332 HPFP Sprocket Timing Tool for 2006-2007 engines* with the silver intake manifold: https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemid=34360123









*T10363 HPFP Sprocket Timing Tool for 2008+ engines* with the Black 2pc intake manifold: https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemid=22440123









*T10068A Cam Locking Bar for 24 Valve VR6* (same tool as used on the R32 and 2.8 24V engines) All 3.6 will need this to lock the cams. Lots of places sell it, I'm a fan of: http://www.metalnerd.com/catalog/product/5378e0ec6f5043dd9d92a4f39e421085


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Check the sprockets*

The teeth wear and so due other key areas:


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Timing Chain Part Numbers* (looked up for a 2006 Passat on 7zap.com verify for your specific engine as they do update parts)
https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/usa/passat/pa/2006-460/1/109-109090/#23


Lower Chain: 03H-109-465 https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/vw...MIs67x_tyl4gIVxlmGCh3BOgIrEAkYBCABEgLJ3_D_BwE 
Lower rail: 021-109-469
Lower tensioner: 021-109-467
Lower Tensioner Bolt-qty 2 (optional): N90923801
Rear Main Seal: 021-103-051-C

Oil pump Large chain sprocket (optional): 03H-109-569
Oil pump Small chain sprocket (optional): 066-109-570
Oil Pump Sprocket Bolt (mandatory) N10404404

These HPFP sprockets get wear on the roller surface. I'd replace anything over 100k miles if I was in a hurry to reassemble and ordering parts before hand. 
HPFP Chain Sprocket Early silver intake manifold car: 03H 109 570
HPFP Chain Sprocket Blk 2pc with vacuum pump cars: 03H 109 570 E

Upper chain: 03H-109-503
Upper SLide rail: 03H 109 513 B
Upper slide rail bolt (optional): N10613901
Chain Tensioner Plastic piece: 03H 109 509
Chain Tensioner: 03H 109 507
Chain Tensioner seal: N0138271
Slide Rail (between cams) : 066109514A
Cam Sprocket/phaser Bolt (optional): N91118001

Cam Sprockets/Phasers are specific to year so look those up if you want to replace them. The teeth do wear.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

You tube video I did to verify the timing on my 3.6. I had several people assist with verification on the 3.6 FB group 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drMhFMvos1s


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

FCPeuro kit but you want some other pieces too: https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-volkswagen-timing-chain-kit-bhktimingkit


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

So before I mount my turbo to my cc... I need to replace the chains. I’m about a week away from pulling the engine. Do I need to replace the cam gear? A local VW specialist that I’ve been working with in Seattle told me I need to replace it... it’s a $800 gear. Does it need to be replaced??????


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

All depends, on condition of them. 

When I did chains on my 103k mile engine I didn’t replace mine. The wear on my chains and guides was minimal. If you car has bad wear and is at 8* then consider it. 

That hpfp gear probably need replacement more than the cam gear. The surface that the roller rides takes a beating. 

Have vagcom? What’s the idle stabilization fluctuating around?


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

G60ING said:


> All depends, on condition of them.
> 
> When I did chains on my 103k mile engine I didn’t replace mine. The wear on my chains and guides was minimal. If you car has bad wear and is at 8* then consider it.
> 
> ...


No vag com but I have a really nice scanner. The idle stays around high 600- low 700. The HPFP is getting replaced with a different one to be able to handle 650 HP. I’m still waiting on HPA to respond to my email. I just need the chains dealt with first! Lol I’m at 150k miles and I’ve just noticed a little rattle when I’m accelerating in traffic and I hit about 5500-6200 rpm. Doesn’t rattle on startup or when idling. And what do you mean “is at 8*”?


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

MN-VDUBCLUB said:


> And what do you mean “is at 8*”?


If you don’t have vagcom for a VW Audi group car then your scanner is lacking. It’s made specifically for VW Audi Group (VAG) cars.

It provided details that other scanners don’t. It’s what some techs use when there aren’t enough factory scanners available at a dealer. 

Now go reread what I posted above about idle stabilization above.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Great thread. 


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

nater said:


> Great thread.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thank you, your threads have been useful to pull info from. I’m just trying to make a one stop shop on 3.6 timing. Sad that forums are dead. I hope they at least live on as encyclopedias for watercooled VW knowledge.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

G60ING said:


> Thank you, your threads have been useful to pull info from. I’m just trying to make a one stop shop on 3.6 timing. Sad that forums are dead. I hope they at least live on as encyclopedias for watercooled VW knowledge.


Just had my .:R32 engine built and doing chains on that too. Maybe I’ll make a diy there too.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

nater said:


> Just had my .:R32 engine built and doing chains on that too. Maybe I’ll make a diy there too.


Please do I’m taking my engine out of the car within the next 2 weeks and I’ve personally never worked on a VR just 1.8’s and 2.0’s 


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

MN-VDUBCLUB said:


> Please do I’m taking my engine out of the car within the next 2 weeks and I’ve personally never worked on a VR just 1.8’s and 2.0’s
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You don’t need to wait for my diy. Read all of my threads in here about the 3.6. It’ll give you ALLLL the info you need man.


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## jddaigle (May 30, 2003)

Many :beer: to you for starting this thread! Hopefully people will keep contributing or at least finding value in this type of thread for many years to come—especially since the 3.6 just won’t seem to go away!  I’ll add a link to it in my thread. :thumbup:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

This will be handy when I have to swap cylinder heads at the track this year.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

I can’t seem to find the right ARP head studs for the 3.6... will the R32 ones work or do I need 3.6 specific head studs? If anyone has changed their timing chains themselves can I get a part number PLEASEE!!!! 


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

There are no drop in head studs available for the 3.6. 3.6 uses 9mm bolts and R32 uses 11mm. You would need to drill and retap the block and drill out the head for the 11mm.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

G60ING said:


> There are no drop in head studs available for the 3.6. 3.6 uses 9mm bolts and R32 uses 11mm. You would need to drill and retap the block and drill out the head for the 11mm.


Great... so just head over to the stealership and get them?


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Bolts can bought from ecs, fcp or the dealer.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

So after working from 8-5 in the shop to coming home and working on the CC for the past 4 days, just to pull the motor... I know why this is a hefty service bill.. but THE ENGINE IS OUT and ready for chains. My friend who owns a VW tuner shop around the corner knows a place in Canada where I can get a custom head spacer . I think the engine might have to go back in with a turbo. Im pretty sure with bigger injectors and a modest tune I can push 440 without having to replace any moving parts. These engines are powerful under boost and don’t need much. 











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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

If you haven't pulled a VR6 in the platform you are working on the job can be a real bear. On the Passat/CC I have seen one person at the junkyard who would leave the transmission in the car and just pull the 3.6. I want to try this at the junkyard to test this technique to see if can shave a good amount of headache.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

G60ING said:


> If you haven't pulled a VR6 in the platform you are working on the job can be a real bear. On the Passat/CC I have seen one person at the junkyard who would leave the transmission in the car and just pull the 3.6. I want to try this at the junkyard to test this technique to see if can shave a good amount of headache.


This engine was a real pain in the ass to pull apart... not to mention ungodly heavy.. A 2 liter would never lol.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

G60ING said:


> If you haven't pulled a VR6 in the platform you are working on the job can be a real bear. On the Passat/CC I have seen one person at the junkyard who would leave the transmission in the car and just pull the 3.6. I want to try this at the junkyard to test this technique to see if can shave a good amount of headache.


Hey G60ing, should I removed the head and send it to be machined? I have the bare block on the hoist rn the chains should be here by Tuesday. I’m just wondering if i should stop being a ***** and pull the head! I did notice tons of carbon and I don’t want to hit only the intake side with cleaners and still have a bunch of carbon on the exhaust side. Or is there another way of getting the carbon off without head removal? 


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Better ask Paul. I'm torn on this subject. You can get the carbon out with a walnut blaster without having to pull the head. 

The head is fairly complicated and I there is so many potential areas somebody could screw something up. Decking is good but it changes the timing, that said you are installing a spacer, that too will mess with the timing. 

I can't help you other than say chose wisely. 

If you were doing port injection the fuel would clean the carbon out.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

G60ING said:


> Better ask Paul. I'm torn on this subject. You can get the carbon out with a walnut blaster without having to pull the head.
> 
> The head is fairly complicated and I there is so many potential areas somebody could screw something up. Decking is good but it changes the timing, that said you are installing a spacer, that too will mess with the timing.
> 
> ...


I’ve removed a 2 liter fsi head many times, my trick is buying 5 different colors of nail polish to mark the teeth of things that are in time and take a picture. Only works if it was in time before plus I also have a copy of the Bentley manual. I’m just truly scared because this is my daily and I’ve never worked on a VR before... I’ve already gone 3 weeks without a car killing my pockets because me and gf have to carpool in this terrible Seattle traffic! I’m into the loan for 1 more year and I don’t want another loan. I’m at 154k miles bought last year at 89k Miles. I want to be able to get 250k out of this block and trans before I purchase a new daily! Idk who Paul is what’s his handle or username? 


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Hi!

I have run a few different junkyard heads and motors and a few gallons of fuel port injected clean them right up. My current ports are shiny after just a day running methanol. 

I would leave the head and media blast it. Dry ice works best but hard to rent. Lots of folks have walnut you can borrow.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Hi!
> 
> I have run a few different junkyard heads and motors and a few gallons of fuel port injected clean them right up. My current ports are shiny after just a day running methanol.
> 
> I would leave the head and media blast it. Dry ice works best but hard to rent. Lots of folks have walnut you can borrow.


Walnut is great. Works like a charm!


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

nater said:


> Walnut is great. Works like a charm!


What about water meth??? I read a thread about water meth cleaning the inside of the block within a day of use? 


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If its port injected it may work. It really depends on how caked on it is.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

need_a_VR6 said:


> If its port injected it may work. It really depends on how caked on it is.


It’s no where near what the 2liter turbos used to come in the shop lookin like, but enough to make me wanna pull the head...


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

So one of the guides broke and the pic of the bentley manual I have is for a 2.8 completely different top ends.... I’m about to pack the engine up onto a truck and take it to a shop to get it put back in time... I’ve gone too long without my daily and carpooling is getting too expensive! Can someone shed some light on timing this engine!!


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

The details of how to time the engine are in the first post.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

So one of the guides broke and the pic of the bentley manual I have is for a 2.8 completely different top ends.... I’m about to pack the engine up onto a truck and take it to a shop to get it put back in time... I’ve gone too long without my daily and carpooling is getting too expensive! Can someone shed some light on timing this engine!!


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

I just thought I’d add some photos since there are none! Got it all timed and just waiting for more parts like exhaust manifold studs, plastic coolant tubes... oh and locktite EVERYTHING! Not mentioned but should be! 













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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

Also not mentioned the O-rings that are in the housing of where cam sensors sit need to be replaced. I took that cover off and found metal shavings. There are 6 of them @ $.86 a pop you have the engine out if it needs replacing.. replace it! 


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

careful on the oil pump, I believe (its been a little while) that there is a circle with an arrow that should be pointed to the 12 o'clock position.

Also less important but good to verify is the crank gear has an angled tooth that should point to the split seam of the main cap. 

Did you lock the cams?

Did you lock the fuel pump? (looks correct)


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

G60ING said:


> careful on the oil pump, I believe (its been a little while) that there is a circle with an arrow that should be pointed to the 12 o'clock position.
> 
> Also less important but good to verify is the crank gear has an angled tooth that should point to the split seam of the main cap.
> 
> ...


I had help from m buddy who is a VR6 master here in Seattle he just told me what to do from across the shop and I got it done everything is in position with the helpful notches hidden around the block. Btw look up BUG-AID if you ever wanna do a crazy VR swap golf or beetle they’ve got some crazy ****aki on the lifts lol from turbo VR CORADO to turbo VR golf 3!


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

My friend’s 2011 3.6 CC suffered some severe issues due to screen being pushed through and into the cam phasers. One phaser was locked up. Talk about EXPENSIVE. I probably would have just bought a low mile motor it was so so expensive to replace them. 125k miles

He only had one code: 000020 - Bank 1: Camshaft B (Exhaust) 
P0014 - 004 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - MIL ON

Guides were worn pretty good. Upper chain was stretched to the point of having slack when motor was at TDC. 



























The carbon buildup wasn’t bad at 125k miles:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Any interest in taking the phaser apart to see if it could be repaired? I know the intake and old exhaust ones come apart pretty easily.


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

Yeah oil changes is why these chains & guides fail.. I haven’t heard about the chains stretching tho. That’s real abuse done to that motor!


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Any interest in taking the phaser apart to see if it could be repaired? I know the intake and old exhaust ones come apart pretty easily.


He is in Colorado. I’ll ping him and see. 

The screen has been a known potential issue.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I have seen them clog and frag but that one looks pretty good.


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## TheBurninator (Jan 7, 2009)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Any interest in taking the phaser apart to see if it could be repaired? I know the intake and old exhaust ones come apart pretty easily.


Oh yeah. Always down to see what failed and confirm it. 



MN-VDUBCLUB said:


> Yeah oil changes is why these chains & guides fail.. I haven’t heard about the chains stretching tho. That’s real abuse done to that motor!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oil changes done every 5k pretty religiously. I drive the car hard, I maintain it appropriately.

You’ve clearly never worked on many VRs. Chain stretch has always been an issue. For the mileage and how hard the car is driven I’d say the guide wear is pretty normal. 

Head was clean inside as I expected. No other signs of wear or slowing down.

Don’t you have some FSI fueling to 750hp to figure out? 



need_a_VR6 said:


> I have seen them clog and frag but that one looks pretty good.


Definitely a good sized hole in that filter. As I’m sure you were thinking when I sent you the message on FB. 

Confirmed screen bits in the exhaust adjuster. Intake cam adjuster didn’t show any abnormal wear at all.



























































Now onto the fun pics









Scoring can be seen on the internal wheel. Just the one lobe of it though. 









Other lobes looked like this:









Outer ring:










And of course my helper...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Just enough crap to get it jammed


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

TheBurninator said:


> Oh yeah. Always down to see what failed and confirm it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lol first off. There are 10 turbo’d 3.6’s out there making well over 650. all in golfs, 1 CC, and 2 skoda’s. Just remember how much of my paynis was in your mouth when my cc has a big ol precision joint! 


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## TheBurninator (Jan 7, 2009)

MN-VDUBCLUB said:


> Lol first off. There are 10 turbo’d 3.6’s out there making well over 650. all in golfs, 1 CC, and 2 skoda’s. Just remember how much of my paynis was in your mouth when my cc has a big ol precision joint!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yawn. I have a big ole precision on my golf too. You aren’t special here, so stop acting like it.

The CC isn’t making over 650. Look at his thread again. Look where the fueling runs out.

The HGP cars all run port injection. So there’s your 650.

Lot of money for something a 12v can do without much effort.

You can zip stubby back up now.

Back to the topic at hand....


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## MN-VDUBCLUB (Jun 5, 2018)

TheBurninator said:


> Yawn. I have a big ole precision on my golf too. You aren’t special here, so stop acting like it.
> 
> The CC isn’t making over 650. Look at his thread again. Look where the fueling runs out.
> 
> ...


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## TheBurninator (Jan 7, 2009)

MN-VDUBCLUB said:


> Lol somebody had a 32 ounce bottle of haterade. My CC will have 650 lol our pockets are different  mine are deeper.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol keep telling yourself that.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Keep it on topic, topic is about 3.6 timing, not turbos installs. Don’t derail the topic.


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## maldacenah (Jan 21, 2020)

*Passat CC 3.6 2010 BWS Engine doubts about chain*

Hi, first so sorry for my bad english.

I ve purchase 3 month ago the car, when start cold exaust make noise like no mufflers for 1 minute about, then ive Heard noise like loose chain. Check block 208 with vcds and result -3 degree. My mechanic change valve cover gasket because a little oil leakings and we saw you can see in video link. My question is could the hidraulic tensioner bad. After run 15 minutes all noise dessapear.

Videois in spanish) 

https://youtu.be/T_2sXKSb8eY

Any help is apreciaeted (I live in Argentina) And Im in a wheelchair for ever, I need to have prevent any big issue because is my transport...

Thanks in advance


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

There is nothing out of the ordinary with the chain as it appears in the video. 
It’s tight, and those phasers will do what they do there. 
A recording of the noise would help more.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

I agree with Nater, my chain setup in the video is normal when assembling.

Extra engine noise when cold starting a minute or two is normal but a video to better understand would helpful.


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## maldacenah (Jan 21, 2020)

*Noise New Video*

Thanks to help me, yesterday with my friend and mechanic unscrew the chain tensioner, it shows wear points, brillant parts like 
as friction in cilinder and piston, because we crush it several times and it is disassembled showing the inner part of the cylinder.

I hope you could understand my english...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE9E17S9_PE


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Sounds normal to me. 


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

What is block 209 reading?

I’ve heard the cams should NOT be 2* different


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

What is block 209 reading?

I’ve heard the cams should NOT be 2* different


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## Dwalker4293 (Feb 25, 2020)

Has anyone had a hpfp lock up and take out the timing chain?


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## kgw (May 1, 2008)

Info on 208/209 : 

Blocks 208 & 209 should be as close as possible to 0°, the spread should not exceed 3°. The absolute wear limit is 8° spread whether + or minus. If the spread is well above 3° but under the limit, then chain & guide replacement should be considered.

Jack over at the Ross-Tech site says this about chains:

"A quick review of locking the cams and seeing how far past 5MM of the TDC mark on the harmonic will indicate a stretch as per the *RTFB*."


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Dwalker4293 said:


> Has anyone had a hpfp lock up and take out the timing chain?


Sounds plausible, I haven’t heard of this happening but anything is possible.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

kgw said:


> Info on 208/209 :
> 
> Blocks 208 & 209 should be as close as possible to 0°, the spread should not exceed 3°. The absolute wear limit is 8° spread whether + or minus. If the spread is well above 3° but under the limit, then chain & guide replacement should be considered.
> 
> ...


Good info, I’m going to check my Uber low mile 2017 Touareg 3.6 in my corrado


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## Dwalker4293 (Feb 25, 2020)

Sounds plausible, I haven’t heard of this happening but anything is possible.

Well here's my situation. I picked up an 07 touareg with broken upper timing chain, and some bent valves. 3.6 liter built in 06. Not long after tearing into it, it was easy to tell that somebody else had been there not long before me. Oil pump felt good, replaced intake variable valve cam gear, hp fuel pump cam gear, all guides both chains and adjusters. (Even though the chain set looked almost new and had recently been replaced). Cranked over by hand fine. Started and ran good, but lots of chain noise and an awful clack every 5 seconds or so... I started it ran it shut it down etc for about oh maybe 2 minutes off and on before whatever was causing the noise made the chain jump a tooth and threw the timing off. I haven't cranked it since because I really don't want to break the chain and bend some more valves. About ready to find a junkyard engine for that thing unless somebody can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance. -Dave


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Dwalker4293 said:


> Sounds plausible, I haven’t heard of this happening but anything is possible.
> 
> Well here's my situation. I picked up an 07 touareg with broken upper timing chain, and some bent valves. 3.6 liter built in 06. Not long after tearing into it, it was easy to tell that somebody else had been there not long before me. Oil pump felt good, replaced intake variable valve cam gear, hp fuel pump cam gear, all guides both chains and adjusters. (Even though the chain set looked almost new and had recently been replaced). Cranked over by hand fine. Started and ran good, but lots of chain noise and an awful clack every 5 seconds or so... I started it ran it shut it down etc for about oh maybe 2 minutes off and on before whatever was causing the noise made the chain jump a tooth and threw the timing off. I haven't cranked it since because I really don't want to break the chain and bend some more valves. About ready to find a junkyard engine for that thing unless somebody can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance. -Dave


Get a low mile 3.6 from the junkyard. My buddy got a 2012 forged crank 3.6 for $900 with 29k miles. It’s not worth doing all the work to replace valves/timing parts with there being so many 3.6s in junkyards.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

In follow up to the timing variance. I checked both my 68k mile 2010 CC and my 2017 3.6 with about 20k miles in my corrado and I now don’t believe the need to pay attention to the block 208/209 guidance that has been talked about. It’s worth keeping an eye on block 208/209 but not gospel most replace info.

My 68k mile CC:










My 2017 20k mile 3.6:


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## jddaigle (May 30, 2003)

G60ING said:


> In follow up to the timing variance. I checked both my 68k mile 2010 CC and my 2017 3.6 with about 20k miles in my corrado and I now don’t believe the need to pay attention to the block 208/209 guidance that has been talked about. It’s worth keeping an eye on block 208/209 but not gospel most replace info.
> 
> My 68k mile CC:
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a primary source for the guidelines that people refer to regarding blocks 208 & 209, just lots of second hand repetition.


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## low_passat (Sep 11, 2010)

jddaigle said:


> Thanks for sharing that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a primary source for the guidelines that people refer to regarding blocks 208 & 209, just lots of second hand repetition.


It relates back to the 2.8 & 3.2 VRs. I don't think there has ever been any direct correlation to the 3.6L


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## VWingAUDIbrit (Sep 3, 2008)

*MVB 208 and 209 for timing correlation issues on 3.6 liter VR6 FSI motors.*



jddaigle said:


> Thanks for sharing that. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a primary source for the guidelines that people refer to regarding blocks 208 & 209, just lots of second hand repetition.


The primary source is a gospel type VW issued tech tip article in the very first post specifically directed at the 3.6 motor and cars and nothing else. I'm sure the numbers are supposed to be checked engine warm and accelerated past 3200 RPM 2-4 times in park or neutral from idle with all electrical consumers switched off before checking. I know it doesn't say that but it's what I would do after so many years working with VW to make sure I was getting the most accurate measurement possible. Maybe even a fresh oil change to add icing and know I have a good baseline. Additionally I would like to add the tech tip only directs a technician to these MVB's for excessive fuel pressure issues so if you do not have high fuel pressure faults in correlation with parameters listed in the Tech Tip it might suggest the high pressure fuel pump is not out of time therefore excessive wear has not occurred. The Tech Tip also only applies to cars prior the 2011 engine updates so it's possible that 2011 and newer engines have different tolerance values for these MVB's and this Tech Tip no longer applies to 2011 and later cars. Without more data there is no way of knowing how valuable MVB 208 and 209 are for measuring timing chain stretch but the Tech Tip does at least give us a guide for something we can explore more.

VW Tech Tip [01-16-05]


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## glassbuggy (May 31, 2016)

Anyone have the part number for the control hosing screen?


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

glassbuggy said:


> Anyone have the part number for the control hosing screen?


Use www.7zap.com to look up the part number.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

HPFP Lobe wear, 

I see people complain of fuel pressure issues and replace all the parts (sensors, hpfp, intake fuel pump and so on) but it does nothing. I believe the issue is chain stretch/tensioner wear and as well as the cog gear wear shown below:


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## Vwcc6767 (Sep 10, 2021)

G60ING said:


> Ok so I'm not putting together a step by step timing chain job thread because my projects usually don't follow the same steps as people who need to just fix their timing. Also doing the timing on a 3.6 is complicated job that requires you to separate the engine from the transmission. Some people may chose to pull the engine and transmission while others may prefer to just pull the transmission when touareg people might want to pull the engine. Its really a slippery slope and what needs to be done. Most importantly I want people to understand the process of re-timing the engine. where to get parts and the tools necessary.
> 
> The beauty of the 3.6 is that it has remained relatively unchanged since being introduced in 2006. I'm running a 2016 touareg engine on 2006 management.
> 
> ...


Hey is it ok if I send you a message? I'm having some issues. Thought it was a timming issue so redid timming and still have same codes.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Vwcc6767 said:


> Hey is it ok if I send you a message? I'm having some issues. Thought it was a timming issue so redid timming and still have same codes.


Just ask the questions here. If I can’t help maybe someone else can.


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## Luv2dub (Mar 7, 2003)

G60ING said:


> Just ask the questions here. If I can’t help maybe someone else can.


I know this is an older thread but the topic is right on the money for what I'm working on.
I am doing the chains on a 3.6 passat and have a question about the little screen that is located in the camshaft variator housing.My looked good but I read some people have had it come loose an clog up their variators and the advice was to leave it out,which I did.
Then I saw a video of a Guy doing a 3.6 Porsche engine and He just cut out the screen but left the orange gasket in,now I am worried I will lose oil pressure by not having a gasket in there.
Any advice or experience on this would be appreciated.I want to nail everything down before the engine goes back into my 2007 wagon.
Thanks in advance.
Steve


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

Luv2dub said:


> I know this is an older thread but the topic is right on the money for what I'm working on.
> I am doing the chains on a 3.6 passat and have a question about the little screen that is located in the camshaft variator housing.My looked good but I read some people have had it come loose an clog up their variators and the advice was to leave it out,which I did.
> Then I saw a video of a Guy doing a 3.6 Porsche engine and He just cut out the screen but left the orange gasket in,now I am worried I will lose oil pressure by not having a gasket in there.
> Any advice or experience on this would be appreciated.I want to nail everything down before the engine goes back into my 2007 wagon.
> ...


You have a greater chance of messing up the reassembly than the screen pushing through. That said if you are so worried and the engine is still apart then open it back up and cut it out. 

There are so few data points on this. Let alone engines that have been torn apart and found the screen has caused damage.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I have only ever seen the screen clogged. I am assuming if it gets clogged enough it could break but being ss wouldn't break into small parts but more likely rip/tear. At that point any debris on the screen could come through. 

I just run an oring and change the oil religiously every 10 miles or so.


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## jddaigle (May 30, 2003)

need_a_VR6 said:


> change the oil religiously *every 10 miles or so.*


 🤣 Sorry, I know what you meant but I did need a good laugh tonight.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

To be honest sometimes I don't even make it 10 miles.


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## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

need_a_VR6 said:


> To be honest sometimes I don't even make it 10 miles.


Flywheel bolts were changed or retorqued every mile or so for little while.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Closer to a half mile on the dot.


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