# NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04



## svolk (Sep 4, 2004)

I just came across a new TST 01-05-04 for vehicle hesitating. The TST is dated Feb 04, 2005. 
I have been noticing this lately, and I have an appt. next Monday. I will let you know how it goes.
Shea.


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (svolk)*

Keep em' coming. My 10K service is next week and this will be the 4th TSB they will need to perform on mine.


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## touaregboys (Nov 12, 2004)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (svolk)*

Cool it would be interesting in finding out what they have to say.


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## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (svolk)*

What is the TSB number? Does it cover a certain VIN range?
Thanks!
X


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (Xrayo)*

What type of hestitation does this TSB fix????


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (TREGinginCO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_What type of hestitation does this TSB fix????

For the dealer to take more money out of your wallet for the 20k service.


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## Jarabacoa (Jun 27, 2004)

I just had this update done on 2/1/05. The tech said it was on a hand-written disc and had not been realeased yet. Apparently now it has. In fact, he did not document this work performed on the service order. It fixed my "death lag" without a doubt. This also appeared to lower the RPM's to MPH's ratio, but could be wrong.


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## bklyndoug (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: (Jarabacoa)*

a death lag solution!!!! finally!!!!
cant believe our voices have been heard...
jara, does it also address the harsh shifting issue?


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## bklyndoug (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: (bklyndoug)*

does this TSB include 2004 V8's?


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## Shoop405 (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (bklyndoug)*

I brought my car in today, I have a 2004 V8 and my service advisor said there were no current TSB's for me.


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## bklyndoug (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: (Shoop405)*

this is classic. not surprised at all, i suspect i will get the same when i call my service advisor.


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## jaredfeiger (Jan 5, 2004)

*What is the TSB Number? Does anyone have the documentation in PDF format?*

Most service advisors are unaware of new TSB's. Whoever created this thread needs to post the TSB number. I would then suggest downloading the documentation from VW or calling the dealer and asking him to download the documentation and fax you a copy. The fact is most people whether they work at VW or not don't really know what's going on until someone tells them. You'll have to provide your dealer with the TSB documentation or at least the number so that they can check out the documentation, order the disc, and update your vehicle.


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## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: What is the TSB Number? Does anyone have the documentation in PDF format? (jaredfeiger)*

If SVOLK would have posted the TSB number days ago, we'd not be where we are today - frustrated and angry. Tell us the dealer anyway, we'll make the phone call.
We might all be on a wild goose chase here.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: What is the TSB Number? Does anyone have the documentation in PDF format? (Xrayo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Xrayo* »_If SVOLK would have posted the TSB number days ago, we'd not be where we are today - frustrated and angry. Tell us the dealer anyway, we'll make the phone call.
We might all be on a wild goose chase here.

He did post the number except he made one little mistake: TSB 01-05-04
Group 01, Number 05-04. Date Published: 02/04/2005. Subject: Customer States "Vehicle Hesitates". Model(s): Touareg with 4.2L V8 (Eng. code AXQ, BHX). Year(s): 2004


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## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Spoc, I take back every crumby rotten thing I said. Sorry SVOLK. X


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## isolani (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: What is the TSB Number? Does anyone have the documentation in PDF format? (spockcat)*

What's the fix? Is it related to the brake switch under the pedal? Or is it a firmware update? Curious...
Isolani


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: What is the TSB Number? Does anyone have the documentation in PDF format? (isolani)*


_Quote, originally posted by *isolani* »_What's the fix? Is it related to the brake switch under the pedal? Or is it a firmware update? Curious...
Isolani

Buy the TSB and find out. Or go to your dealer and ask to see it.


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## Curjo (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: What is the TSB Number? Does anyone have the documentation in PDF format? (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Buy the TSB and find out. Or go to your dealer and ask to see it.

Yeah. And then copy it and post it on this forum for the rest of us, so we can all go and barrage the dealers with requests to fix something that we think might be broke.


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## Jarabacoa (Jun 27, 2004)

bklyndoug,
It did fix the harsh shifting as well. I could not believe the difference. I'm not sure if this fix is VIN specific, but mine is in the 78xxx's.


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## ace_vwtech (Jan 13, 2005)

its supposed to fix the way the computer applys the throttle from what i understand, however we dont have the disk yet if i remember ill bring tsb home and give the details, we just got the fax on it like thursday last week so maybe the person getting the faxes at other places havent distributed it? also there is a reflash for some trans concerns that isnt mentioned that is on the 4 wheel drive reflash disk but isnt part of 4wd flash, it is there for a harsh shift / hesitation on certin tcm numbers, I will look again for this bulliten (I have a 04 in the shop for a harsh shift when accelerating after slowing but not stopping) to let you guys know the deal on that too, they had printed a new list of tsbs a while back but need to stop taking them out of vesis they just disappear sometimes...they wont say why and we gotta fix your cars lol Ill try to remember them tomorrow


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## isolani (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

Thanks Ace! Very helpful, I'll go make the request next week. And Spock, thanks for your reply also.
Isolani


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## bklyndoug (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: (isolani)*

guys- 
this is GREAT news. this is the single greatest problem with my rig, i'm ecstatic it will finally (hopefully) be resolved. 
ace, looking forward to any other tranny/throttle-related TSB's you come up with. thanks!


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## ace_vwtech (Jan 13, 2005)

ok got the bulliten in my hand...tell the service advisors that the tech (or themselfs ) can find this new bulliten under grop 01 and the obd tab, and its dated feb 4 2005 subject is customer states vehicle hesitates, models affected are 2004 tourag v8 AXQ and BHX engine codes, the bulliten then explains the condition as get this customer perceived hesitation may be caused by ecm aggressive throttle stratagy (huh?) it says to verify condition and follow the procedure but that isnt important to you guys the owners you just want it to go when you depress the pedal. incidently there is a similar bulliten for the v6 dated july 9 2004 , with similar wording ..now if you could get these "chipped" it alters the throttle statagy so it would fix this but who knows what other problems it will create, i have only recently seen one place offering tuning on these v8 ecms but I think there will be more updates on the ecm in the future so another reflash at dealer would erase the chipping kind of reflash..also the secret trans reflash is in bulliten 01-04-13 dated june 21 2004 (also found under obd) and covers v6 and v8 , there are actually two diffrent programs in the flash for v6 and v8 vehicles but the tech stuff again doesnt matter just fix my car right...hope this helps some people get their tourag fixed ,as a vw tech i try very hard to fix the cars right the first time but sometimes I cant due to parts or like what may be the case here (I looked for the disk today and we dont have it yet) the updates arent available yet, ill try to help whenever i can on these but to be honest most techs just dont take the time to really see what the car is doing, or the service advisor doesnt ask the right questions, or in many cases the customer is vauge about the problem ( like it has a noise for exaple..what kind of noise where does it happen etc.)maybe i should start a topic on that and it will help in some cases. well anyway hope this helps everybody and bklyn I miss NY, im from long island


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## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

thanks for your input ace - vw needs more techs who care like you. If I ever make it out your way, I'll buy you a beer or two.


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## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: (4x4s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4x4s* »_thanks for your input ace - vw needs more techs who care like you. If I ever make it out your way, I'll buy you a beer or two.









or three or four -- until he's in a casket!








P.s.: only people who've read the casket thread will get this one.


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## isolani (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

Ace for president! ACE! ACE! ACE! ACE!


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## ace_vwtech (Jan 13, 2005)

well thanks everybody, Ill keep an eye out for the disk with the flash as most shippments of this sort arrive at most dealers at the same time. You guys will love this, my service manager recently got a tourag as a demo ,guess what he says, it pulls to the right vibrates at 70 and hesitates, i was almost rolling on the floor when i herd this, but then i found out his is an 05 and those things are supposed to be fixed???? maybe its him, he says the hesitation happens at light throttle I was just wondering if this is what you guys are seeing also?


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## jinxegg (Oct 14, 2004)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ace_vwtech* »_ok got the bulliten in my hand...
incidently there is a similar bulliten for the v6 dated july 9 2004 , with similar wording ..
also the secret trans reflash is in bulliten 01-04-13 dated june 21 2004 (also found under obd) and covers v6 and v8 ,....

Absolutely correct.
I had a tranny and ECM replacement back in July 2004 and it took them 40 days to deliver, just because they were in the middle of this update.
I also had the engine ECU flash, which fixed the "death lag", hesitation and "pepped up" engine performance too.
What is very strange though, is why 8 months later, these things are "secret" overthere.
I had the impression, that every service dealer is obliged to perform them upon their release. Mine does.


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ace_vwtech* »_ but then i found out his is an 05 and those things are supposed to be fixed???? maybe its him, he says the hesitation happens at light throttle I was just wondering if this is what you guys are seeing also?

Hmmmm. First I''ve really heard of an 05 behaving badly.


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## ace_vwtech (Jan 13, 2005)

OK its here, we recived the reflash disk today only eleven days after the bulliten i am in the southeast i dont know who gets shipped first but they should be at other dealers soon


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## 12punch (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

I had the reflash done on Tuesday to my V8 treg. "Death lag" is gone for the most part, only if I have slowed down to stop then push to full throttle is there any significant lag. 
Transmission jerky shifting is gone. Mine was really bad in Sport mode, so bad that on down shifts it would literaly give you whip lash, so I just did not use Sport mode, to uncomfortable.
All in all it did improve overall transmission responce and smoothness. I once read a report from Motor Trend back in summer of 2003 and their comments were that the Treg's transmission was "silky smooth". I still do not think that it is smooth as it could be or should be. But I still love it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
KF


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## svolk (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

Ace,
My tech in Calgary Alberta Canada is waiting. Is the application big? Maybe you could email it to me and I could burn a disc. Maybe you can explore the CD and find out how big it is. It may very well be quite small.
I appreciate the assistance, I want this thing fixed.


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## Rob in CT (Sep 15, 2003)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (svolk)*

My dealer will have the software next week. Can't wait.


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## rektek (Dec 21, 2004)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (Rob in CT)*

I stopped by my local vw dealer (glendale,ca) to inquire about the tsb. It took a while, but I found a tech who new about new tsb. He said the software came in yesterday and the tsb had not been performed on any treg yet. He was very suprised I knew about it and asked how I found out. I told him vwvortex. Well, the soonest I can have it done is in about two weeks, due to scheduling. I'm excited, but been there before.


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## fauvaydoc (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (rektek)*

Note to everyone: these bulletins are not performed on all vehicles that come into the shop automatically, so if you want it done, the best thing to do is give the service writer the symptoms on the bulletin. I've performed a couple updates with this latest flash cd and both were successful. I would recommend you have it done unless your ECM is chipped.


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## ace_vwtech (Jan 13, 2005)

another note it doesnt fix the hesitation compleatly, but it is alot better and read what fauvaydoc said...said the same thing myself in another post and someone jumped allover me...so dont kill the messnegers we are making the extra effort on our own time to help you guys get your cars fixed


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## bklyndoug (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

hi all -
so i had the TSB performed on the throttle hesitation and i must say it worked well too start. as ace says, it is not a perfect solution, but nonetheless was significantly better than in the past.
however, i have felt recently that the car has returned to its old habits as the hesitation is back. the car behaves like it did before the flash.
is it at all possible for my T to "lose" the flash? or am i simply adjusting to the new throttle? any thoughts appreciated.


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## guitarman (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (bklyndoug)*

Also Ace...is there really a way to re-set the learning process that we can do? There has been a lot of speculation that you could turn the key to accessory, hold the throttle down for 10 seconds, release and turn ignition off and it would re-initialize the computer and erase any learned behaviors...any truth to this or is there a proceedure that can be done by us owners?


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## Jarabacoa (Jun 27, 2004)

I too have noticed that this fix does not last long. I actually had this TSB done twice about 30 days apart. After the second time, I remembered what the first one felt like. This is only a temporary fix.


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## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (bklyndoug)*

Funny, I had the TSB done a couple of weeks ago and admit that she's beginning to feel like she used to feel - pensive and restrained - maybe a little demure. 
Ace? Is it me? 
X


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## bklyndoug (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: (Xrayo)*

wow, ok, 3 of us feel like this fix disappears over time...anyone else?
ace/spock, is this really possible or are we all dreaming?


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## mrod1975 (Nov 5, 2004)

*how about 05 V6*

does the 01-04-05 tsb also apply to 05 V6 engines, or only V8s?


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: how about 05 V6 (mrod1975)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrod1975* »_does the 01-04-05 tsb also apply to 05 V6 engines, or only V8s?

V8s only. 
Subject:Customer States “Vehicle Hesitates”
Model(s):2004 Touareg with 4.2L V8 (Eng. code AXQ, BHX)
Group:01
Number:05–04
Date:Feb. 4, 2005


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## ace_vwtech (Jan 13, 2005)

there is a seperate tsb for the v6, the reflash should not be able to be lost, its like loadind a program on the computer in front of you, and shouldt get lost, this is probably the computer learning the way you drive and adapting to it in a bad way, I dont have long term access to a vehicle to try but my service manager says his 05 demo hesitates also so the problem is probably relearning itself? give me a throttle cable, like my scirocco, i push it go simple...job security i guess


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## mrod1975 (Nov 5, 2004)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

is your manager's a V6 or V8?


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## ace_vwtech (Jan 13, 2005)

v8 no nav, no pdc no rear locker(diff) and 18 inch wheels


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## bklyndoug (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

ace - 
is it really possible to "reset" the throttle by turning the key to ON and depressing the gas pedal for 15 seconds?


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## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

My V8 is back to buckin' and lurching. Obviously, this is a temp fix (?). Don't waste your time, IMHO.
X


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## 12punch (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: (Xrayo)*

Same option. Maybe we should just schedual a weekly visit, becasue that is about how long my fix lasted..... but still love driving it








KF


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## depiry (Feb 16, 2005)

I have TSB:Gp 44 #04-05 :12/08/04 TPMS
:Gp 00 #05-02,:3/02/2005 Radio /NAV,audio cd.
:GP 01 #05-06: 03/21/05 immobilizer code retrieving,using Vas 5051,5052,GeKo.
Gp 91 #04-12 :12/21/04 radio anti theft code retrieval procedures.
Gp 27 #05-01: 01/20/05 starter doesnt crank,engine doesnt start,key cant be removed.
Gp 43 #04/02 :12/20/04 air suspension diagnostic trouble code.
I would post but there are alot of pages and I am not sure of how to scan and post.


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## svolk (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Jarabacoa)*

I found that it didn't last long either.
It lasted about 1 month and now I have the hesitation back.
Not sure why it isn't lasting...


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (svolk)*

Just got mine reflashed for the 2nd time. I haven not checked to see if it is different software yet. But, I can tell you that the beast is now very sluggish in drive mode. Seems the same in sport mode.


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## ladytregdriver (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: (watson007)*

Hey Mr Watson,
Is this the same "fix" for the "shaking" at idle? I just had mine done a couple of weeks ago and the shaking seems to be gone but I have noticed a difference in behavior. Nothing major....just different.
p.s. Do you have a Vag-Com?


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## ladytregdriver (Feb 7, 2004)

*Re: (ladytregdriver)*

Just got my paperwork from my dealer visit in the mail....this is the same TSB...I didn't really have a hesitation problem just the rough idle...guess I'll keep my eye on it.


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## irbrenda (Oct 9, 2000)

*Re: (watson007)*

They just reflashed mine too and it is sluggish in Auto. I thought it was my imagination. I would like them to do a "system restore", like my PC does!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: NEW TSB "Vehicle Hesitates" 01-05-04 (svolk)*

What this particular TSB describes is the process of updating the software in the V8 engine control module (ECM) - the controller at address 01 - to version 0050 from whatever version it was at before. If you have a VAG-COM or other diagnostic scan tool, you can check what the current version of your ECM software is, just by looking at the 4 digit number that appears at the end of the line showing the component description. For example, the software version number of the controller in the sample below is highlighted in red:
Address 01: Engine
Protocol: KWP2000
Controller: 4D0 907 560 DA
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0020
Coding: 0007875
I will offer one thought to those of you who have Touaregs with the 4.2L V8 (Eng. code AXQ, BHX) engine, which is the engine this TSB applies to: If you are reasonably happy with the way your engine behaves now, and you don't have any specific complaints about how it accelerates - think carefully before you make a decision to have the software updated. The fact that an update is available is not, _de facto_, an indication that the update is either necessary or desirable. The old rule "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" very much applies to updates such as this one.
We had quite a bit of discussion in the Phaeton forum about 6 months ago concerning "perceived throttle hesitation" in Phaetons that were equipped with the W12 engine. Some folks were screaming blue murder, saying that the engine "hesitated", whereas others were entirely happy with W12 engine performance when they accelerated. What we discovered, after comparing notes, was that it all came down to how the driver operated the engine. If the vehicle was stopped - or decelerating with the driver's foot off the gas pedal - and the driver then floored it, the engine kickdown switch would be engaged, and the car would go into "launch mode". All subsequent engine and transmission behavior would then be oriented towards getting the vehicle up to Vmax (130 MPH in North America) in the shortest period of time. In this respect, the car performed well - it would accelerate all the way to Vmax in the shortest possible time, *but:* It wouldn't get across the intersection in the shortest possible period of time.
We discovered that if you want to get across the intersection as fast as possible (as opposed to getting up to 130 MPH as fast as possible), the technique to use is a little different - poke the gas pedal slightly, and then as soon as the engine responded, poke it more, about 3/4 of the way down, but NOT all the way down. The car would then take off like a scared rabbit. Because the driver was not flooring it, and not engaging the kickdown switch, the engine response was instantaneous, there was no hesitation. That's not to say that one group of drivers was "wrong" and another group was "right" - it simply illustrates that one group might perceive a problem to exist under the same circumstances that another group has no difficulty with at all. It depends on how the individual operates their vehicle.
I'm not saying that this software update (to version 0050) is not a good thing - I don't have the knowledge to make a comment like that. I'm just saying that it is likely that the VW engineers came out with this software update in order to address SPECIFIC COMPLAINTS from some owners who were not happy with the response of the engine to the signals that they were giving it. The fact that VW has not made this an 'across the board, implement the change automatically whenever a Touareg comes in for an oil change or snow tire installation' type of thing suggests to me that it is more a response to a specific complaint than an overall product improvement. It is entirely possible that if an owner is presently happy with the performance of their vehicle, this software update may somewhat change the behavior of what they are already happy with. Hence, my suggestion to think about it critically - or, at least let someone else try it out first, and hear what they have to say before you get it done yourself. The ideal way of evaluating it would be to try out someone else's Touareg that has this modification implemented.
In summary - if you have always been muttering to yourself "Gee, I perceive a hesitation in this Touareg when I accelerate" - maybe this is just the TSB for you. On the other hand, if you are satisfied with how your Touareg accelerates (perhaps because you have a different driving style than someone else) - then maybe you might be better off just leaving things alone. 
As for the TSB itself - I honestly don't know too much about it, however, you could always try clicking here and see what pops up...







Just don't mention my name, OK? And for goodness sake, don't go into your VW dealer with the TSB in hand, that's just plain crass.
Michael


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## watson007 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (ladytregdriver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ladytregdriver* »_Hey Mr Watson,
Is this the same "fix" for the "shaking" at idle? I just had mine done a couple of weeks ago and the shaking seems to be gone but I have noticed a difference in behavior. Nothing major....just different.
p.s. Do you have a Vag-Com?

Hey lady. Mike said you had been in for the flash. Here is how my service ticket reads:
""CUSTOMER STATES THAT ENGINE IS RUNNING ROUGH WHEN WARMS UP. ENGINE HAS A HESTITAON TEST DROVE. REFLASHED THE ECM PER TSB #01-05-04. SET READINESS AND TEST DROVE."
I have access to a VAG-COM but I don't own one. I would just get one (cable) if I knew I wasn't getting rid of my Touareg before it was out of warranty.
If you want I can get the cable for a week or so if you want to do some scans. Just drop me an email if you do.
Also, when you say that you notice a different behavior do you mean that it is sluggish at take-off?


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## Hooptydoo (Jan 30, 2004)

*Re: (ace_vwtech)*

On 03/04/05 they reprogrammed ECM per tech. bulletin 01-04-15 to attempt to solve the death lag and hesitation problems with my V6. At first it seemed really jumpy kind of like being in sport shift but now that has gone away and it seems like nothing has changed same old lag and hesitation problems.


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## chessmck (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: (Hooptydoo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hooptydoo* »_On 03/04/05 they reprogrammed ECM per tech. bulletin 01-04-15 to attempt to solve the death lag and hesitation problems with my V6. At first it seemed really jumpy kind of like being in sport shift but now that has gone away and it seems like nothing has changed same old lag and hesitation problems.

I think that was for V8 only. The one for V6 was last year...??? Anyway that is when mine was done and no prob since....


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (chessmck)*

I had a death lag TSB done on my '04 V6 --- reflashing the ECU --- fixed everything like a charm.


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