# Haldex tuning for S3



## Ricky11 (Jun 7, 2012)

Has anyone heard of any S3 owners modifying their haldex tuning? 

With the increased power, I'm getting way too much front tire slip and would love to learn how I may be able to have more power go to the rear...


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## steve111b (Jun 2, 2011)

Turn off the ESP or use S mode. This puts the Haldex on all the time. Not sure if a tune will keep the Haldex on when you step on the brakes (brakes and/or an ESP input disengage Haldex on a stock car).

For launch stay away from D. In both M and S the Haldex is preselected to be on before you step on the gas.


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## Ricky11 (Jun 7, 2012)

steve111b said:


> Turn off the ESP or use S mode. This puts the Haldex on all the time. Not sure if a tune will keep the Haldex on when you step on the brakes (brakes and/or an ESP input disengage Haldex on a stock car).
> 
> For launch stay away from D. In both M and S the Haldex is preselected to be on before you step on the gas.


Thanks, but I already drive with ESP off and in dynamic. When I launch, I get ridiculous front tire spin, so I need to find a way to have more than 50% go to the rear, even if temporary. 

I heard people did this to precious generations, so hoping there's a way to do this soon.


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## jbarth09 (Mar 8, 2013)

HPA motorsports has done a haldex tuning tool in the past. But with such a new platform you might have to wait. APR might offer some kind of DSG tune in the future. Would look out for that.


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## twenzel (Jan 20, 2011)

United Motorsports is already working on it IIRC. They already have Haldex flashes for v.3 and v.4. The MQB has Haldex v.5


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## M this 2! (Feb 8, 2012)

I seriously think the car is judging torque and delaying the rear hook up to save itself when in Launch Mode. Or if in Launch maybe it automatically delays hook up as some spin is better than none. 

When the car is rev'd to 4k the force will spin what ever is easiest. Right now it is the front tires. If all 4 were fully engaged it might be the DSG clutch pack that spins instead of the tires. OR the rear diff that spins its clutch as well. The force AS to go somewhere so I'm guessing Audi built this in the protect the car. 

Use launch control in a 991 Turbo S Porsche. With 560hp, it hooks up EVERYTHING in the drivetrain and spin all 4 tires as it has the power to do so. We don't yet, but more importantly do not have a clutch pack strong enough in there to deal with that level of force needed to spin said 4 tires.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

M this 2! said:


> I seriously think the car is judging torque and delaying the rear hook up to save itself when in Launch Mode. Or if in Launch maybe it automatically delays hook up as some spin is better than none.
> 
> When the car is rev'd to 4k the force will spin what ever is easiest. Right now it is the front tires. If all 4 were fully engaged it might be the DSG clutch pack that spins instead of the tires. OR the rear diff that spins its clutch as well. The force AS to go somewhere so I'm guessing Audi built this in the protect the car.
> 
> Use launch control in a 991 Turbo S Porsche. With 560hp, it hooks up EVERYTHING in the drivetrain and spin all 4 tires as it has the power to do so. We don't yet, but more importantly do not have a clutch pack strong enough in there to deal with that level of force needed to spin said 4 tires.


That's an interesting theory... I certainly hope that Audi is not compensating for weak clutch pack by purposely reduced traction. Here is my theory. The car starts off all the power to the front wheels. Haldex realizes loss of traction in the front, sends power to the rear wheels. But by then, most of the weight is already at the rear, causing the haldex to try & send more power to the rear, until maximum transfer to the rear is realized. If the maximum transfer of the power to the rear is still less than the grip in the front, the front will continue to spin until there is sufficient velocity to get some of the weight transfer back to the front.

On my TT-RS(Gen 4 haldex) the max transfer to the rear is 50%. However, I can get a race Haldex controller that allows that 50% power transfer to happen faster, reducing some of the delays that causes front wheel spin & understeer. I suspect they will offer a similar solution for the Gen 5 Haldex on our S3 cars at some point as well. I attached a link to Gen 5 Haldex info below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDRVTjMPK9Q


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

M this 2! said:


> I seriously think the car is judging torque and delaying the rear hook up to save itself when in Launch Mode. Or if in Launch maybe it automatically delays hook up as some spin is better than none.
> 
> When the car is rev'd to 4k the force will spin what ever is easiest. Right now it is the front tires. If all 4 were fully engaged it might be the DSG clutch pack that spins instead of the tires. OR the rear diff that spins its clutch as well. The force AS to go somewhere so I'm guessing Audi built this in the protect the car.
> 
> Use launch control in a 991 Turbo S Porsche. With 560hp, it hooks up EVERYTHING in the drivetrain and spin all 4 tires as it has the power to do so. We don't yet, but more importantly do not have a clutch pack strong enough in there to deal with that level of force needed to spin said 4 tires.


This is a very realistic possibility. We'll have to see what happens with tuned cars, since the gen5 haldex is primarily a 'weight saving' revision of gen4, we don't know how much of the durability has been lost with those changes.. but IIRC, it was mostly changes to the pump, not the clutchpack itself, right?

But basically, a friend and I have been discussing it since APR posted the video of their Stage 1 Golf R launching.. lots more front wheelspin than I expected to see. A realistic possibility is that it IS to save the haldex system in general.. perhaps it ramps up the haldex clutch pressure as the car starts accelerating so that it doesn't dump the majority of 300 ft-lbs through that haldex axle from a stand-still (since as weight transfers rear, most of the torque would be delivered through the rear very quickly). We probably won't know until the after-market controllers are in use in tuned cars for a while to see what breaks.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

CbutterK said:


> But by then, most of the weight is already at the rear, causing the haldex to try & send more power to the rear, until maximum transfer to the rear is realized. If the maximum transfer of the power to the rear is still less than the grip in the front, the front will continue to spin until there is sufficient velocity to get some of the weight transfer back to the front.


In a normal AWD system, you'd be likely correct, but if 'maximum transfer' to the rear is happening, the fronts and rears cannot turn at different speeds due to the design of the haldex system, so we can tell that isn't happening if the fronts are spinning but the rears aren't.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

araemo said:


> This is a very realistic possibility. We'll have to see what happens with tuned cars, since the gen5 haldex is primarily a 'weight saving' revision of gen4, we don't know how much of the durability has been lost with those changes.. but IIRC, it was mostly changes to the pump, not the clutchpack itself, right?
> 
> But basically, a friend and I have been discussing it since APR posted the video of their Stage 1 Golf R launching.. lots more front wheelspin than I expected to see. A realistic possibility is that it IS to save the haldex system in general.. perhaps it ramps up the haldex clutch pressure as the car starts accelerating so that it doesn't dump the majority of 300 ft-lbs through that haldex axle from a stand-still (since as weight transfers rear, most of the torque would be delivered through the rear very quickly). We probably won't know until the after-market controllers are in use in tuned cars for a while to see what breaks.


And another possibility is that the reason for the wheelspin is because VW/Audi thought that at stock power levels, fully engaging the rears from a stop would 'bog' the motor and produce slower acceleration than letting the fronts slip a little before ramping up the haldex clutch pressure and engaging the rears. With a tune, that little bit of slip turns into more slip, and that is something that could likely be fixed in an after-market haldex controller/tune.


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## hjvelez (Mar 10, 2014)

In for updates on a tune. Im APR Stage 1 and getting some front wheel spin, specially when launching on cold tires. I drag race my car and getting temperature to the tires is not easy with this power levels and Quattro, you cant get the wheels spinning fast enough to get them to a working temperature. A haldex tune would seriously help getting power to the rear wheels faster.


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## M this 2! (Feb 8, 2012)

It is going to be interesting to see what happens. As with FWD cars, lowering front psi a bit helped me by .2 to 60 as it hooked a ton better. With my BT MK I TT w/ Peloquin rear LSD and Haldex controller, and a beefy clutch I'd launch closer to 5500 and ALL 4 would instantly spin for half of 1st. 

So maybe with a Haldex controller it'll be a MUST for DSG softward and upping the launch revs as well. Now as it stands, that'd be useless. I haven't tried it but a friend mentioned NOT mashing full gas while doing launch control. Do everything the same but roll on the full amount of gas pedal after side stepping the brake...


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## hjvelez (Mar 10, 2014)

Do you mean launching at lower rpms or just easing off the gas immediately after releasing the brake pedal?


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## M this 2! (Feb 8, 2012)

I mean launching at a lower rpm so it's not as violent.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

The TT-S & RS have a different software program that sends power to the rear earlier/more often than the S3/R and makes the car able to drift.


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## M this 2! (Feb 8, 2012)

.......of course they do. :screwy:

Can't they just leave cool sh!t alone?


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Revolver1966 said:


> The TT-S & RS have a different software program that sends power to the rear earlier/more often than the S3/R and makes the car able to drift.


Which makes me optimistic about what the aftermarket will be able to do with the S3.


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

*2015 Audi S3 460 hp?*

2015 Audi S3 460 hp? Please elaborate on how exactly you achieved 460 hp.


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## CbutterK (Feb 27, 2015)

ThorMjolnir said:


> 2015 Audi S3 460 hp? Please elaborate on how exactly you achieved 460 hp.


LOL... If you read it properly, you'll notice that he has a comma between S3 & 460HP. He had a 460HP MK1 TT, which is possible with built motor & BIG turbo. Def not a 460HP 2015 S3. Though a GTX turbo upgrade on the S3 at some point should get it right around 460hp.


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

Ha my bad. I'm hoping the GTX on the 2015 A3/S3's will hit 500 hp with 93. Will most certainly get one.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

twenzel said:


> United Motorsports is already working on it IIRC. They already have Haldex flashes for v.3 and v.4. The MQB has Haldex v.5
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



We are flashing MQB DSG and Gen5 Haldex in house now. Currently working on release calibrations.

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## rabbitgtibbar (Apr 29, 2002)

Ricky11 said:


> so I need to find a way to have more than 50% go to the rear, even if temporary.


Not possible, even temporarily. Unless you want to install a center diff/transfer case. And another driveshaft. And a different transaxle.

Well, I mean you *could* with stock hardware, but it involves low traction at the front wheels. It'll get you more than 50% to the rear, but only because your fronts are slipping. 



> I heard people did this to precious generations


You heard wrong.


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## rabbitgtibbar (Apr 29, 2002)

Out of curiosity, are you guys with issues sure your Haldex is working properly? It won't throw a dash light when it goes, you'll just noticed bunch of front wheel spin.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Ricky11 said:


> Thanks, but I already drive with ESP off and in dynamic. When I launch, I get ridiculous front tire spin, so I need to find a way to have more than 50% go to the rear, even if temporary.


dang homie, you get tire spin?! and it's ridiculous tire spin?! well people always told me it's a front biased awd system so yeah. but damn for you to get tire spin you must treat the car like you're playing gta v. :laugh:


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## Ricky11 (Jun 7, 2012)

scope213 said:


> dang homie, you get tire spin?! and it's ridiculous tire spin?! well people always told me it's a front biased awd system so yeah. but damn for you to get tire spin you must treat the car like you're playing gta v. :laugh:


Lol.. I only get it when launching, but it's pretty bad given the additional power. With a good launch, I can hit 0-60 in 3.8. With the tire spin it's nearly 4.2-4.3.


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