# Header Wrap on log manifold?



## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

Hi guys!
A few weeks ago, when I drove the car pretty hard for the first time, I came home to make some adjustments to the wastegate and play with the hoses and stuff. First thing I noticed was when I popped the hood, I got a big rush of _HOT_ air, kinda like opening a hot oven. I realized a turbo makes things a lot hotter, but this is just rediculous. I couldn't even touch the RUBBER vacuum hoses 'cause there were burning my fingers, and everything metal near the back of the engine (strut brace, intake manifold, throttle cable) were all incredibly hot.
I have purchased some header wrap and a turbo insulation kit. 
Thing now is, is there ANY disadvantage to wrapping my cast-iron exhaust manifold, turbo exhaust side and downpipe? Some concerns are :
1) Will the turbo "bag" make my turbo run hotter?
2) Will the center section of the turbo run hotter and make the oil more likely to coke?
I really want to make the engine bay run cooler, I don't think the hood should get so hot I can burn myself on it. Can't be good for the surrounding components!
I'd appreciate any advice!
Thanks!


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## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

You have had the setup for ages and you just notice!
I was strictly NA before i went turbo, you can go for a run, come back and make adjustments. I tried that with the turbo car and ended up with burns! 
The compression of air and re using the exhaust gasses creates the heat, it is concentrated around the turbo. The heat is energy, so in a way to keep it in is good but cast manifolds and mild steel manifolds are somewhat prone to cracking. Wrapping the manifold may increase the chance of that, i have my DP wrapped i am certain it helps. You can nearly touch the wrap a few minutes after switch off, the pipe underneath would probably burn you.
The turbo heatshields may help keep some heat in, but i wouldnt run 1 for 2 reasons, first its another thing to remove second it will hide my turbo which sits nice and high up so u can see it!
I would wrap the down pipe not the manifold., wrapping stuff takes it out of view, small cracks could grow if undetected.
We see so many cars with no wrap atall. As for the components, if they are in an engine bay i would hope they can take some isht!
Just keep important stuff out the way.
-Rich


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## RobbieIG (Apr 7, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

yeah, the insulation will make the turbo run hotter, it reflects the heat that it would be disapating to the atmosphere. more heat does mean that it is more likely to coke the oil, but, that doesn't mean that it will...that depends more on how hot it actually is and what oil you are using
you should possibly consider that it is not the heat being released by the turbo that makes everything so hot. with the turbo you are using more fuel, more combustion, etc....it would make sense that your engine would run hotter


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (rocco2.0gtiLondon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco2.0gtiLondon* »_You have had the setup for ages and you just notice!

I've driven the car like 3 times in 6 months. No plates and no insurance ... And my slow ass still hasn't finished putting together the damn AWIC system ...









Both of you have pointed out things I hadn't thought of. 
I need to rethink this. 
Thanks for the advice guys!


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## VR KLLR (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

Markku, I had the same problem and I used 3M Foil Tape to stop my ecu wires (on the firewall) from melting like they once were.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (VR KLLR)*

Well that's another thing I'm worried about, even though I'm no longer using those wires, I still don't want ish to melt. I've heard of numerous people having trouble with the throttle cable getting stuck on STOCK cars where the heat shield had been removed. Now I've got this big lump of glowing-hot iron sitting back there.
I don't know what to do. I don't think wrapping just the downpipe will make much difference ... It's the manifold and turbine that really radiate heat.
We'll see ...


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

You can always send them to Swaintech and get them coated with White Lightning. It'll cost you more than the fiberglass wrap though.
I wouldn't worry about the extra heat radiating into the oil as long as you roil cooler system and coolant system are up to snuff. As fas as coking the oil, the only time you would worry about that is if the oil just sits in the housing for a long period of time, a la, shutting the car off after you flog the piss out of it without a proper cooldown procedure.
I'd get that shiny bag and be done with it. Personally, I am going to get my manifold and housing coated because I want the turbo to spool up faster - stage 3 .63 on a 2L 16v







And I don't want to melt ish either http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (vfarren)*

If you get a watercooled bearing housing this is supposed to help prevent coking. A thought if you are really worried about it.
Won't do much for underhood temps though...
http://www.eastwoodco.com has some good heat treatment coatings and wraps.


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## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (GKONYA)*

I have one of those "Blue Point" hand held temp guns, and found my downpipe to be 100F difference in radiant heat(black 2" wrap from Jeg's) . I also wrapped my header. I put some "cool it" tubing over my heater core hoses and my trigger pick-up wire. The previous owner of my car melted the sds wires and the silver paint turned golden from the heat. I wrapped my stuff to prevent such happenings, I dont want my reflex silver turn golden...I have been thinking of wrapping my turbine housing as well, good thread... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (jettatech)*

I wrapped my downpipe before, and the teamp really went down. i could put my hand about 5mm away from downpipe without burning myself. My downpipe wich was made od sched 40 elbows did not suffer from pre mature wear, but my atp one made of exhaust pipe suffered more has it cracked... The bag will help with spool up and with proper cool down, i would not worry about coking. My manifold is wrapped on my rocco and will wrap my SS 316 Thick has hell 3" downpipe very soon.


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## PorpShow (Jan 22, 2004)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

Definitely wrap it. Reasons:
1) You want as much pressure in your header as possible. Header Pressure = Boost, Heat = Pressure.
2) Cracking in headers is caused by heat cycling (metal gets hot, expands, then gets cold, shrinks) Wrapping the header will reduce the heat cycling, and should reduce cracking.
3) Reduce temp in engine bay. Heatsoak is bad...for the engine, the wiring, the hoses, the Charge Piping! Anything you can do to reduce extra heat in the bay, the better.
Downsides to Wrapping:
1) if you get a crack, it's harder to find.
2) looks like crap.
Alternatives to wrapping:
HPC coating. http://www.hpcoatings.com/hipercoat_extreme.htm
50% reduction in header surface temp, more HP, looks better than wrapping. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (PorpShow)*

I think thermal coatings are a good idea but if the manifold cracks it will need to be re coated 








Coating the turbo would be more aesthetically pleasing but harder to carry out than the turbo bag.

-Rich


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (rocco2.0gtiLondon)*

I actually like the look of wrapped headers and stuff, I think it looks the business. I'm really not worried about how it will look. I just don't want the paint to peel from my hood etc ... there is some SERIOUS heat back there.
I appreciate everyone's input, and I'm going to wrap everything up tonight. I already have everything I need. This doesn't mean I think those who advised against it are wrong, I just think the heat issue is important to me. 
Thanks guys! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## draculia (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

wrap leads to thermal fatigue, and rust/corrosion very quickly. you shouldn't need to worry about the manifold that much if its very thick, but thin materials like 16g mild or aluminized steel will be destroyed over time. every wonder why wrap voids warantees on exhaust parts?
every think about heat shields? plenty of companies make heat shields for turbine housings. stainless is great to use because it doesn't let heat escape like other materials. you don't want to sink the heat away, you want to keep it in. keeping the heat inside the manifold, turbo, and exhaust will keep the velocity high, that's a good thing.
so my suggestion is to coat or wrap or heatshield the manifold and turbine housing. for the downpipe, get it ceramic coated. most places charge around 12 per foot to inside and outside coat tubing up to 3". use aluminum or fiberglass sleeving on vacuum lines and wires near the back of the engine.
don't worry about the oil temp.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (draculia)*

What if my downpipe is made of stainless, will it still fail once wrapped? And roughly how long will it take to break? A few years, a few weeks?
Thanks!


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

My aluminized atp one only took a few weeks then the heat made a weld break http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif wrap it and in a few weeks just check it. MY friend had wrapped a header on is mazda but he drove it year round and it got major corrosion on it for only 1 year old. If you will drive it in the winter take the wrap off. There will be too much hot-very cold stages that it will crack very quickly.


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## draculia (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

stainless does a pretty good job of keeping the heat in. i personally would just get it ceramic coated, probably cost the same as getting it wrapped. worry about the manifold and turbine housing first.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (draculia)*

I know it would be the less technical way, but what about getting a small scoop or vent for the hood so that it flow fresh air behind the head to that stuff?


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## TURBOPHIL (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (veedub11)*

I am a big advocate of ceramic coating the manifold,downpipe and turbine housing. On my 8v turbo this made a considerable difference in underhood temps. With my aba 16v I had everything done for $140.00 prior installation here in GA. 
It Looks really good also. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (TURBOPHIL)*

I should have had everything coated before I started bolting stuff together. I can't get into that at this point. 
And I have been thinking about the scoop idea, it would be perfect, but I can't bring myself to put a hood-scoop on a stock-looking 1996 Jetta.







But it really would be perfect ...


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

Ag, the vent would work. then put something to direct the air back in that direction.


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (veedub11)*

Not sure if you have done this but, i took out the insulation under the hood and the weather strip at the rain tray. To alow air to pass over the top of the motor. 
It cooled my engine down a bit.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (mattstacks)*

Okay, so I did it. I wasn't too anal about covering every square millimeter of the manifold, but did what I could. I also wrapped the downpipe and installed the turbo-insulating bag. This was very hard on the 'ol back, but I'm glad it's done. Now I just hope I don't need to get those downpipe bolts off, 'cause I'll need to cut the stainless zip-tie to get to them.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

I am looking forwar to hear how it affects the temps. and performance of the setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_I am looking forwar to hear how it affects the temps. and performance of the setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (kilmer420)*

looking to get this wrap today or tomorrow LMK if it's worth it you think??? I specifically want to know about the bag over the turbine...
"bag over her face..." LOL ok, that was stupid...but LMK...interested on results


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (kilmer420)*

What does "worth it" mean to you? If you're looking for a performance increase, you might want to look elsewhere. I haven't driven the car yet (I don't think this car will ever drive again), but people seem to say that they feel the difference in spoolup. I can't say for sure, but I doubt it's noticeable. For me, it's 'cause I wanted to keep the heat off the nearby rubber hoses and wiring harness ...


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## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

I figured that...I was wondering cracking issues...stuff like that...
and yes spool up...lastly, heat dissipation from the engine bay...
it already gets hot as he11...I want it to kinda follow the exhaust stream and not sit in the engine bay


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## QuickBlackGTi (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (kilmer420)*

You should have gotten the DEI heat coating spray which will help protect the wrap even more, Plus it makes everything black so you would even notice it. All I did with mine was spray the downpipe first, wrap it, then spray it again. Also if you wanna remove even more heat that weather stripping by the rain tray hold the heat in. I cut out my rain tray and everything runs so much cooler but my car really ist driven daily like most people.


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## gcarson (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (QuickBlackGTi)*

I used the header wrap on an Autotech Tri-Y header and the header dissolved. Developed a crack and when I tried to weld the crack I discovered there was not enough good metal to weld to. Also, according to Brospeed the use of header wrap on their headers will void any warrenty. May take longer for a cast manifold to die, but this will definately speed it up.


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (QuickBlackGTi)*

Problem was, they didn't want to ship the spray can to Canada for some reason, I think 'cause it has to remain ground shipped or something. I just said **** the spray. I didn't know what it was for. Oh well ...


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

who sells that spray again


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## Kilmer (Sep 5, 2001)

*Re: Header Wrap on log manifold? (Agtronic)*

I personally don't think the spray is worth it...IMHO
and they do sell black header wrap BTW guys


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