# 10k Revs of 2.5L Big Turbo AWD Rabbit Madness!



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Originally dubbed *Project Mad Rabbit * This 2007 Rabbit over the last 2 months has been a fun project that we are really looking forward to. This car was previously an SCCA SSC car which besides the cage meant that it was virtually stock. Over the last 2 months we have slowly been transforming it and trying out different setups. Currently it has the following modifications



H&R Front and Rear Swaybars
BSH Sway Bar End Links
JC Cross Competition Coilovers
United Motorsport Short Runner Intake
Bluewater Performance Stage 1 Flex Fuel Tune
Eurojet Header
Eurojet Exhaust
Full 6 point Race Cage
Thunderbunny Rear Bumper
Thunderbunny Side Skirts
Votex Lower Front Lip
Bluewater Battery Relocation Kit
Ported and Polished Head

We plan on dynoing the current setup and we are hoping for around 220whp which would make it the highest HP NA Rabbit and as soon as we are finished at the dyno we are starting stage 2 of the transformation. 

Stage 2 will consist of 


Integrated Engineering Rods
JE 8.5:1cr Pistons
Knife Edged Crankshaft
Precision 6765 Billet turbine Ball Bearing Turbo
3" Downpipe
Custom Cams
Bluewater Performance Billet Valve Cover
Custom Turbo Manifold
Custom Stainless intercooler Piping
Treadstone Front Mount Intercooler
Bora 4 Motion Drivetrain
Peloquin Diff
08 Golf R32 Rear AWD Swap
Sparco Pro ADV Race Seats
Sparco 5 Point Harnesses 
Wheels and Tires TBD



Ultimately the goal for this car is to be ready in time to go out to Bonneville in September with our turbo R and then compete in NASA sanctioned racing events and possibly the Eurotuner GP.
We have hp goals of around the 600hp-700hp range and are building it to rev all the way to 10k!! which will make this thing amazing to drive and hear! None of this would be possible without the help of United Motorsport and United Motorsport UK. They are a big sponsor of this project and we are happy to have them along with us. We love the 2.5L engine and feel that there is so much potential for this setup.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

wow cant wait to see the final product.
in for the dynos
:thumbup::thumbup: for more companies contributing to the 2.5l society


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## nunumkv (Jul 5, 2010)

WDF im so in for this! :thumbup:


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## nightshift1963 (Jun 20, 2011)

how much do i have to pay you to make my car like this. ill drive there and meet you


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

No valvetrain work for 10k? 

And also, only 220 whp on na?

I'm not bashing, nor its my intention... But I thought with headers and intake mani, 210 was easy with the software... Add to that the e85 and I thought more than 220 was possible. I do understand that you are sying that "at least" 220... But I'd think that "at least" it would be 230whp.. That, if e85 is that good.

On the valvetrain, I have read over and over that after 8k you start to be on the edge... So 10k would def need an upgrade... Also, is the crank pulley needed?? Or this is on the stock pulley???

Lastly, you said 08 r rear... What about the box itself? Dsg? Manual?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> No valvetrain work for 10k?
> 
> And also, only 220 whp on na?
> 
> ...


We will be pushing as far as we can on the stock drivetrain to see where it tops out at and then we will be upgrading from there. As far as HP numbers go keep in mind that the density altitude of where we dyno is typically around 6500' elevation which is a huge factor on the dyno numbers so we lose quite a bit up here. Also we will be using a Bora 4 Motion manual box. We were going to do the DSG swap but with our power goal the DSG box isn't proven to hold that much so we opted for a manual box for the time being.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

What about the crank pulley?? Keeping it stock?

Also, shouldn't the dyno have altitude correction??


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> What about the crank pulley?? Keeping it stock?
> 
> Also, shouldn't the dyno have altitude correction??


The crank pulley will be upgraded along with many other parts not listed but we will update the list as we go. Also we can put in altitude correction so I can post uncorrected and corrected HP numbers.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The crank pulley will be upgraded along with many other parts not listed but we will update the list as we go. Also we can put in altitude correction so I can post uncorrected and corrected HP numbers.


great! thanks...


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

You guys are doing what every one of us on here wants to do with our cars. Only difference?




You guys have money. 


In to see where this goes!


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Any videos of the car on the track?
I would love to watch it for a few laps.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TeamZleep said:


> You guys are doing what every one of us on here wants to do with our cars. Only difference?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


same thought. althou i wouldnt do e85, but 93 with meth/water...


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> same thought. althou i wouldnt do e85, but 93 with meth/water...


With a turbo car E-85 is far less risky and the power difference is far greater than with water meth.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> With a turbo car E-85 is far less risky and the power difference is far greater than with water meth.


i know.. but e85 is unavailable to me.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

So here is my thought. I think once all of these SuperRabbits have been built there should be some sort of competition to nsee who has built the best one. I would love to see the BW Performance Rabbit vs. the Unitronic Rabbit vs. a built C2 Rabbit! Battle of the bunnies anyone?


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

I'd rather see a company invest money in producing quality products for the market instead of playing a who's got a bigger dick.

If building a insane Rabbit leads to developement in tuning, bolt-ons, internals, cams, etc. Then it is money well spent. Otherwise it is just a show piece.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

by doing the showpiece they also do some "research"... such that by reving to 10k, they'll test to what i'd think, the limits of the valvetrain and flow at higher rpms.

with the BIG turbo, they'll test the bottom end, and so on...


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I'm gonna go ahead and back C2 by saying that they don't just play the "Look at my large rabbit penis". The parts they make, they sell. The tunes they make, they sell. Every part on their Stage 3 rabbit you can purchase (except the body tidbits from 1552 that have nothing to do with actual performance, like flares and stuff). 

Hell, they have a rabbit dedicated as a "test" car to review tunes/etc if you ever have an issue with your setup. It's hard to expect huge things from smaller companies in a market with lots of interest but no commitment. It is nice though to have companies who try their best to get stuff out to us though.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Exactly. This is how new development comes around. If no one ever said, "Hey, I wanna turbocharge my 2.5L," then no one else would have said, "I want to put a BIGGER turo in my 2.5L."

I say let them play. The more they push, the more they will see a need for parts to accomodate that push. And why would you make one-off parts when you can make a bunch and sell them to people like us who will gladly pay for the small advantage those parts may give us.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Agreed.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

You won't get anywhere near 10k on stock valvetrain without float. Even with a bigger spring 10k is borderline... Then there is the stock cams... 

Gabe, email me- we may have some stuff available in the next few months which may help your cause.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

do we have a tester for the upcoming cams?

i believe so


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Yeah... My car should be up for cam testing... I track the crap out of it.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TeamZleep said:


> Yeah... My car should be up for cam testing... I track the crap out of it.


i will start to do so too... lol!


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kiserhd said:


> I'd rather see a company invest money in producing quality products for the market instead of playing a who's got a bigger dick.
> 
> If building a insane Rabbit leads to developement in tuning, bolt-ons, internals, cams, etc. Then it is money well spent. Otherwise it is just a show piece.


We are utilizing this project to develop an engine that is capable of revving to 10k. We plan on also using this vehicle in the NASA GTS series on lower boost of course. It is not being built as just a show piece. We are really excited about the 2.5l and we want to push the envelope to see where things go. 



[email protected] said:


> You won't get anywhere near 10k on stock valvetrain without float. Even with a bigger spring 10k is borderline... Then there is the stock cams...
> 
> Gabe, email me- we may have some stuff available in the next few months which may help your cause.


Thanks Pete I will email you. But dont think that with the stock drivetrain it is too far off. We have been pushing our current setup past 8500rpm for over 3 months now without a bit of issue or any valve float and the logs that we have done prove that it continues to pull all the way to redline. Now going past that point cams and valvetrain will need to come in to play but so far the stock valvetrain has proven itself over and over again everyday. :thumbup:


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We are utilizing this project to develop an engine that is capable of revving to 10k. We plan on also using this vehicle in the NASA GTS series on lower boost of course. It is not being built as just a show piece. We are really excited about the 2.5l and we want to push the envelope to see where things go.


Sounds good to me. I'm working on a set of cams right now. When I get back and start test and tune for them I can kick you my data sheets if they help any.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kiserhd said:


> Sounds good to me. I'm working on a set of cams right now. When I get back and start test and tune for them I can kick you my data sheets if they help any.


That would be nice. Any additional information couldn't hurt. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks Pete I will email you. But dont think that with the stock drivetrain it is too far off. We have been pushing our current setup past 8500rpm for over 3 months now without a bit of issue or any valve float and the logs that we have done prove that it continues to pull all the way to redline. Now going past that point cams and valvetrain will need to come in to play but so far the stock valvetrain has proven itself over and over again everyday. :thumbup:


arent there any issues? i was told that the crank on the 2.5 is on the heavy side, so at high RPMs it creates a lag cause of the rotating mass.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> We are utilizing this project to develop an engine that is capable of revving to 10k. We plan on also using this vehicle in the NASA GTS series on lower boost of course. It is not being built as just a show piece. We are really excited about the 2.5l and we want to push the envelope to see where things go.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Pete I will email you. But dont think that with the stock drivetrain it is too far off. We have been pushing our current setup past 8500rpm for over 3 months now without a bit of issue or any valve float and the logs that we have done prove that it continues to pull all the way to redline. Now going past that point cams and valvetrain will need to come in to play but so far the stock valvetrain has proven itself over and over again everyday. :thumbup:



The valve spring requirements increase exponentially- you need a hell of a lot more spring for 10k, then 9k for example. 

FWIW, the FSI springs are a cheap "junkyard" upgrade, not that you care. Interesting tidbit though.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> The valve spring requirements increase exponentially- you need a hell of a lot more spring for 10k, then 9k for example.
> 
> FWIW, the FSI springs are a cheap "junkyard" upgrade, not that you care. Interesting tidbit though.


I don't doubt that at all, coming from a sprint car backround and working a lot with big block and small block applications I am very aware of what it can take to make a high revving engine and trust me you guys will be getting a call from me about the valvetrain components. :thumbup:

We love IE :heart:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I don't doubt that at all, coming from a sprint car backround and working a lot with big block and small block applications I am very aware of what it can take to make a high revving engine and trust me you guys will be getting a call from me about the valvetrain components. :thumbup:
> 
> We love IE :heart:


just wondering... why not INA?
they are forum sponsors, and my experience with them has been nothing but incredible.

:thumbup: :thumbup: for issam.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

We are trying to work with INA on some parts as well but so far we have never had any luck.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nightshift1963 said:


> how much do i have to pay you to make my car like this. ill drive there and meet you


Yay a new nightshift :facepalm:


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Yay a new nightshift :facepalm:


:banghead:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Im gonna suggest that if you plan on NASA and what ever endurance events that you use a AWIC.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Im gonna suggest that if you plan on NASA and what ever endurance events that you use a AWIC.


Along with the front mount setup we are also working on an awic setup. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Sounds good. Im in for the results utilizing a awic :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Sounds good. Im in for the results utilizing a awic :thumbup:


same here.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Also in for the dyno graph. Wanna see how fast that big ol' terbo spool


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

The parts for the AWD swap should be here next week and the drivetrain should be here from the UK in another 2 weeks.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

When do you guys plan on dynoing your NA setup? Im anxious to see how much power can be made with all those parts since thats most likely the direction Ill be going with my car.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

tay272 said:


> When do you guys plan on dynoing your NA setup? Im anxious to see how much power can be made with all those parts since thats most likely the direction Ill be going with my car.


x2


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

We are planning on dynoing the car before it gets torn apart but for now we are tearing apart the interior and removing all sorts of weight. I will post a pic soon of the parts that were removed but for now we removed an additional 200lbs today and we expect to be able to remove an additional 200 tomorrow which will bring the cars total weight according to the corner balance scales to around 2500lbs.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> We are planning on dynoing the car before it gets torn apart but for now we are tearing apart the interior and removing all sorts of weight. I will post a pic soon of the parts that were removed but for now we removed an additional 200lbs today and we expect to be able to remove an additional 200 tomorrow which will bring the cars total weight according to the corner balance scales to around 2500lbs.


That's awesome.
I excited to see how gutted the car needs be to reach that weight. 
Our cars would feel a lot quicker if they weren't so portly. 
All for safety, so I suppose it's ok.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

do share all you are doing..

i dont mind removing rear seats, spare, and all the misc minimal stuff...


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

In for the details of what 400lbs was removed.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Yeah that is ALOT of weight to remove from that car. Id like to know what all came out of it, Im assuming the entire interior except the stuff that needs to stay.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Yeah pretty much the entire interior except for the dash. We have removed a total of 260lbs in the interior but of course the cage weighs about 120lbs. The extra weight which hasnt been removed as of yet will be the entire HVAC system, additional wiring, glass (which will be replaced with polycarbonate), Emissions System, A/C Components, and much more. WE are hoping that the car will sit nicely around 2800lbs-2900lbs when it is all said and done with the big turbo and the AWD setup.


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## TURBOPHIL (Jan 31, 2002)

2800-2900 awd would be perfect for a race rabbit. The good thing about this build is you can add weights wherever possible to make the car somewhat even at all 4 corners. 
As mentioned above please post your results on the NA setup, I've always been a big fan of the 2.5 and is considering doing an Audi b5 A4quattro with the 2.5 turbocharged in the near future.:beer:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks for all of the comments. We are working on getting the car put back together that way we can get it up on the dyno. So far we are at 260lbs of total removed weight. We still though have most of the HVAC system to remove, a couple of airbags, some sheet metal out of the doors, the glass (which will be replaced with lexan), wiring, and other small bits here and there.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

The biggest hurdle to overcome is going to be trying to remove the actual A/C compressor. I am not sure how we are going to tackle it but we will figure it out soon here. It would be nice though if another company has already developed a setup for the A/C delete and if anyone knows please let us know otherwise we will engineer something ourselves. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Can you or the owner maybe give me or sell me the piece I arrowed? Mine broke from a dumbell!lol


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I don't wanna turn this into a FS thread, but do you guys have the plastic piece that slides up and down with the ebrake lever? Mine has cracked and I could use another one. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Can you or the owner maybe give me or sell me the piece I arrowed? Mine broke from a dumbell!lol


I will look tomorrow but sadly I think it has already been thrown away.... 



TeamZleep said:


> I don't wanna turn this into a FS thread, but do you guys have the plastic piece that slides up and down with the ebrake lever? Mine has cracked and I could use another one. :beer:


I think we may still have that piece. Again I will look tomorrow. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Check out what arrived today!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Wow... Now, finish the NA so we cann see what you do!


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Been there done that 4yrs ago:*




















*And your finished "fully built" engine should look like this:*




























*And your finished car should look like this:*


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

The car is a 2007 VW Rabbit 2dr 2.5L with Tiptronic. It only has


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I think we may still have that piece. Again I will look tomorrow. :thumbup:


:heart: Thanks!!! 


[email protected] said:


> Check out what arrived today!


Please take in-depth install pictures! 



_V-Dubber_ said:


> Also, the engine does get quite hot very quickly. One time I drove 40-50miles (drive time about 1hr) and the oil temp crept into the neighborhood of almost 240 degrees and the car was engulfed in smoke coming from the exhaust. It's only really good for short trips or driving at night. Thats why my fall upgrades round will include the new PTP turbo blanket that was released in March for the T3/T4 hybrid and the Vulcan Ultimate titanium-weave "lava fiber" header wrap on all the turbo plumbing and turbo exhaust manifold and vertical part of the test pipe. I would highly advise against anyone thinking of doing a ball bearing setup because you will have even worse heating issues than me. But then what do you expect more than doubling the power and not augmenting the cooling system? Oh well I hope you enjoyed my overly thorough and long-winded description! Privately message me for any additional information or pics. Inbox only, no IMs please.:beer:


PM'ed about the oil issue. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

TeamZleep said:


> I don't wanna turn this into a FS thread, but do you guys have the plastic piece that slides up and down with the ebrake lever? Mine has cracked and I could use another one. :beer:


I have that piece still. :thumbup: Shoot me a pm


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Get rid of the whole dash and get one of those Auto Meter Pro-Comp Pro dash and weld a bracket to the fire wall for it :thumbup: Sard also makes quite a few universal versions of these as well. :thumbup:


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> i have that piece still. :thumbup: Shoot me a pm


done. :d


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Just finished spending the entire day with the plasma cutter and welder cutting out the stock seat supports/mounts and welding in some newer lower ones because my head with a helmet on was above the roll cage which is not good. BTW it was a ton of work and having to go back through and reinforce all of the sides again was a major pain.


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## HIBB 304 (Nov 8, 2008)

Keep it up guys.:thumbup:


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Did ya get my PM?


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## gonyofam3 (Oct 2, 2007)

Bump for updates.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

what are you going to do with the spare tire hole?? why not cut and put straight sheet metal there... more aerodynamic and lighter too!


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> what are you going to do with the spare tire hole?? why not cut and put straight sheet metal there... more aerodynamic and lighter too!


We will be cutting out the whole rear pan and welding in some new sheet metal so it is a more flat surface. We do not have too many updates this week as we had to build 3 engines for customers which allowed for no time for our own fun projects however we did modify the floor and get the seat mounted. It was a lot of work but the end result is great. I will post some pics in a few.


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## gonyofam3 (Oct 2, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> We will be cutting out the whole rear pan and welding in some new sheet metal so it is a more flat surface. We do not have too many updates this week as we had to build 3 engines for customers which allowed for no time for our own fun projects however we did modify the floor and get the seat mounted. It was a lot of work but the end result is great. I will post some pics in a few.


:beer:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The biggest hurdle to overcome is going to be trying to remove the actual A/C compressor. I am not sure how we are going to tackle it but we will figure it out soon here. It would be nice though if another company has already developed a setup for the A/C delete and if anyone knows please let us know otherwise we will engineer something ourselves. :thumbup:



I'm looking at that as well- also the dry sump setup is difficult unless we re-shuffle stuff. I'll probably run an electric water pump and re-sort the accessories. 

I'm kinda planning on putting the engine eventaully into a different platform and I would need hydraulic power steering I think, so whatever I figure out will need to be modular. 

I'm trying to get a FARO arm in the shop in the next month or two which would make it a hell of a lot simpler to put something together.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I'm looking at that as well- also the dry sump setup is difficult unless we re-shuffle stuff. I'll probably run an electric water pump and re-sort the accessories.
> 
> I'm kinda planning on putting the engine eventaully into a different platform and I would need hydraulic power steering I think, so whatever I figure out will need to be modular.
> 
> I'm trying to get a FARO arm in the shop in the next month or two which would make it a hell of a lot simpler to put something together.


Please keep me updated on your findings as I am very interested. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'm trying to get a FARO arm in the shop in the next month or two which would make it a hell of a lot simpler to put something together.


 Thats a pretty penny


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Thats a pretty penny


but it would be amazin!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> but it would be amazin!


 Ya Ive used one before. Very usefull, and scary to use.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Well here is the progress for the seat mount which took forever.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

2 questions: 

you wouldnt be using the stock steering wheel.. are you? 
and, why sparco? just want to know the reasons of why this over the competition...


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

All of our road course race cars since I was a kid have run Sparco seats and harnesses so I guess its just a personal preference thing and also the PRO ADV fits me perfect. I have bought 4 of them now for 3 different cars and I love them. 

And our Turbo R32 runs one of these


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> All of our road course race cars since I was a kid have run Sparco seats and harnesses so I guess its just a personal preference thing and also the PRO ADV fits me perfect. I have bought 4 of them now for 3 different cars and I love them.
> 
> And our Turbo R32 runs one of these


 That looks fantastically uncomfortable, do they custom make it to measure? Cause there is no friggen way i would fit in that.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

DerekH said:


> That looks fantastically uncomfortable, do they custom make it to measure? Cause there is no friggen way i would fit in that.


 Yeah they can custom make them for your body and it is uncomfortable but it is very safe. They are mainly designed for Stock cars and Drag cars but they have road course ones as well. 

Oh and we are not using the stock steering wheel. That will be gone very soon.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Mounting seats has got to be one of *the* most annoying tasks possible. I just did it the other night on my e36. Good work :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

ok, thats what i wanted to know... 

whenever i do the seats and the whole interior upgrade, i plan on doing it with Sparco stuff... seats, steering wheel, seat belts, rails, etc... they are good and properly priced...


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## CaptainOZ (Nov 11, 2010)

I see my silver baby gutted in the background, how is she doing?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

CaptainOZ said:


> I see my silver baby gutted in the background, how is she doing?


 We will hopefully be throwing the engine and turbo back in the car at the end of the week or early next week. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

We need some suggestions on wheels.... 

This week I will be ordering wheels for this project and we have a few wheels in mind but are open to suggestions.... 

So far I am looking at the 

Rotiform Forged Race - Roc Wheels 










Rotiform Forged Race - TMB Wheels


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

TMBs look faster


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

You should check out some of the Neuspeed forged race wheels. They have a couple different styles and arent too crazy expensive. If not them, some lightweight Raderwerks rims would be nice. Check out the LW-10s. Only 19lbs for a 18" rim aint bad but Id go alittle smaller then that.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Of those two, I say TMBs.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Neither... CCW forged or if you must have 3 piece, I suggest 17" CCW Classic Race's... They start at 2300 a set and if you f*ck up a lip or inner, they are very cheap. Like $175 IIRC.. Check em out :beer:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Neither... CCW forged or if you must have 3 piece, I suggest 17" CCW Classic Race's... They start at 2300 a set and if you f*ck up a lip or inner, they are very cheap. Like $175 IIRC.. Check em out :beer:


 couldn't agree more.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DerekH said:


> couldn't agree more.


 I sold my set w/o tires for $1800+ a set of Porsche twists w/adapters and hankook R compounds, and a set of LM reps with stretched Falken 912's  Plus they look great :snowcool:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Well our heads are still spinning here on which wheels to choose. Honestly we might just opt for something light and cheap because we eventually would like to have 2 sets since we will be tracking it all the time. So the 3 piece forged wheels might be out unless a wheel sponsor steps up in a major way! :laugh:


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## xxKurt85xx (Jun 8, 2010)

go with something ultra light! im saying like 16lb 17" or something. This is a race car treat it as such.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Yeah I was seriously looking at these because they are a great price and only 17lbs!


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## xxKurt85xx (Jun 8, 2010)

or these if you wanna ball out and do it right..  :laugh:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Well our heads are still spinning here on which wheels to choose. Honestly we might just opt for something light and cheap because we eventually would like to have 2 sets since we will be tracking it all the time. So the 3 piece forged wheels might be out unless a wheel sponsor steps up in a major way! :laugh:


Just another reason to drop the front money on CCW classics. They have flat rate $175 on lips and barrels, so if you break either or, its $175 to replace it. Thats going to be cheaper to replace a lip or barrel for $175 than it will 2-300 for a whole wheel


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

BBS RGR's for strength and weight for sure. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Just another reason to drop the front money on CCW classics. They have flat rate $175 on lips and barrels, so if you break either or, its $175 to replace it. Thats going to be cheaper to replace a lip or barrel for $175 than it will 2-300 for a whole wheel


Yeah honestly the more I look the more I am leaning towards the CCW wheels...


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

DarkSideGTI said:


> BBS RGR's for strength and weight for sure. :thumbup:


I have always had a soft spot for these....


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yeah honestly the more I look the more I am leaning towards the CCW wheels...


:thumbup:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

For light and cheap there is always the rpf1. great wheel cheap and looks pretty good too. There is also the new pf01 not quite as light but i have heard the road feel is fantastic.

Still, CCWs are ****ing awesome. Get them! lol


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

DerekH said:


> For light and cheap there is always the rpf1. great wheel cheap and looks pretty good too. There is also the new pf01 not quite as light but i have heard the road feel is fantastic.
> 
> Still, CCWs are ****ing awesome. Get them! lol


I still want a set of 17" black RPF1's.


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## 08Drabbit (Feb 3, 2011)

any updates? opcorn:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

08Drabbit said:


> any updates? opcorn:


??


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Any dynos yet of the NA setup?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

tay272 said:


> Any dynos yet of the NA setup?


We are taking it to the dyno before we pull the engine this week. Also the updates have been slow recently because we had 3 other engine builds to finish over the last 2 weeks so the Rabbit has been sitting. Other than that we are now just waiting on some parts from Integrated Engineering.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Sounds good, very interested to see the results.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Yo do, by any chance a gotten hold of a set of cams?
What's the na set up as of right now?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Integrated Engineering is working on developing a set of cams but to be honest unless you have a short runner with proper software the cams are not really needed.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Integrated Engineering is working on developing a set of cams but to be honest unless you have a short runner with proper software the cams are not really needed.


ok, but you didnt answer...

whats going to be your NA set up?

will it include cams?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Its posted back on the first page at the very top.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

ok.. found it.


United Motorsport Short Runner Intake
Bluewater Performance Stage 1 Flex Fuel Tune
Eurojet Header
Eurojet Exhaust
Ported and Polished Head


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Integrated Engineering is working on developing a set of cams but to be honest unless you have a short runner with proper software the cams are not really needed.


Indeed they are :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Indeed they are :thumbup:


Eventually we will find out but I have a hunch that with the stock intake cams are not going to make a huge difference in power.


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## DrivenAllDay (Mar 13, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Eventually we will find out but I have a hunch that with the stock intake cams are not going to make a huge difference in power.


Well, you sold me my United sri... and I'd like to find out what adding cams would do  either way I'll be ready for the cams when Integrated lets them loose.


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

thygreyt said:


> ok.. found it.
> 
> 
> United Motorsport Short Runner Intake
> ...


what power do you hope to put down with the above setup?? 200whp?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

210-215whp.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

DYNNNOOOSSSSS!!! I wanna see some prehistoric **** haha.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

awesome!


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## LampyB (Apr 2, 2007)

so 210-215whp on e85 right? any idea what the power difference will be when running 93? i don't have access to ethanol out here in MA, it sucks...


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

LampyB said:


> so 210-215whp on e85 right? any idea what the power difference will be when running 93? i don't have access to ethanol out here in MA, it sucks...


~193whp with those said mods on 93oct. When I had the evo header I dyno'd 182whp mods were evo header, my handmade cai, and Unitronic stage2 and hf cat with tt catback


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## DrivenAllDay (Mar 13, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> ~193whp with those said mods on 93oct. When I had the evo header I dyno'd 182whp mods were evo header, my handmade cai, and Unitronic stage2 and hf cat with tt catback


Are you saying you dyno'd 193whp, or are you talking about Taylors car?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DrivenAllDay said:


> Are you saying you dyno'd 193whp, or are you talking about Taylors car?


No Im saying the mods the BW bunny has n/a which were EJ header/exhaust, ported polished head, UM im, on e85 should around the said 210-220whp. On 93oct Im guessing 193whp, my car dyno'd 182 with evo header, hf cat, tt exaust, cai, unitronic stage 2 93oct. If I had a intake manifold and some bigger injectors 205whp on pump gas was realistic. On e85 easily 215-220whp. I dont really know how to add the port and polish into the equation  I dont feel it'll give much gains for a low revving motor with stock valve without boost, tho I read some guy that did it claimed 20whp gained from doing to his buddies 2.5, so that Im not sure of eace:


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Subscribed


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Yeah on 93 octane it should be pretty close to 205. I dont have a header yet but Ill be getting one from EJ when they come out with their revised edition. After I get that installed I wanna hit the dyno again and see what Im up to. This E85 flash may be in the future but not for awhile.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

dyno yet?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> No Im saying the mods the BW bunny has n/a which were EJ header/exhaust, ported polished head, UM im, on e85 should around the said 210-220whp. On 93oct Im guessing 193whp, my car dyno'd 182 with evo header, hf cat, tt exaust, cai, unitronic stage 2 93oct. If I had a intake manifold and some bigger injectors 205whp on pump gas was realistic. On e85 easily 215-220whp. I dont really know how to add the port and polish into the equation  I dont feel it'll give much gains for a low revving motor with stock valve without boost, tho I read some guy that did it claimed 20whp gained from doing to his buddies 2.5, so that Im not sure of eace:


Keep in mind he is in Denver so altitude is a big factor. :thumbup:


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

thygreyt said:


> dyno yet?


Please.....


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

We will have an NA dyno at some point. Please keep in mind that the car is completely torn down at this point so we can't just wheel it over. Eurotuner magazine has asked us to keep things a little on the down low as they want to be able to show the progress in their magazine so I told them I wouldn't update with pics until something comes out from them however I will tell you that the AWD swap is done, Integrated Engineering has teamed up with us on this project as well and a box full of parts just arrived yesterday, and we just ordered the wheels which are CCW Classics, Race Versions. 18" x 10.5" Black shot peened faces anodized black with the lips anodized red.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Glad to see you went with the CCW's. They are so cost effective :thumbup: 

Im going to pm you later about the wiring up of the haldex and coding. Have you guys thought of using a Gallardo front differential for the rear which should be full time drive. We have one here we got for 1100$ out of an 06 which doesnt have a wiring harness period, and the r32 rear axles should fit... Underground Racing takes these off the Gallardo's to make them RWD, and sell them off unless the owners want them on... It seems it will bolt up to the rear support of the mkvr rear subframe, you just have to make the brackets.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Wow that looks amazing and it doesn't look like it would be too hard to fab up some brackets to make it fit....


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Wow that looks amazing and it doesn't look like it would be too hard to fab up some brackets to make it fit....


Well its light too. I dont think r32 axles will fit, but if the Gallardo axles are the same spline they should work. Its was supposed to be used on an Audi project but I may just take it and play around with it. They are good to 2000whp, as seen by UR!lol


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Glad to see you went with the CCW's. They are so cost effective :thumbup:
> 
> Im going to pm you later about the wiring up of the haldex and coding. Have you guys thought of using a Gallardo front differential for the rear which should be full time drive. We have one here we got for 1100$ out of an 06 which doesnt have a wiring harness period, and the r32 rear axles should fit... Underground Racing takes these off the Gallardo's to make them RWD, and sell them off unless the owners want them on... It seems it will bolt up to the rear support of the mkvr rear subframe, you just have to make the brackets.
> 
> ...


Love the idea 

and to make the most of it, you'll need a clutch-type LSD since the rear is all dependent on the right shaft output :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

EL_3grab said:


> Love the idea
> 
> and to make the most of it, you'll need a clutch-type LSD since the rear is all dependent on the right shaft output :thumbup:


Not necessarily. UR makes a LSD for the front diffy, just the $109,000 stage3 kit deletes the front diffy all together. AFAIK only 3 Lambo's have kept the front diffy with the upgraded LSD :thumbup::thumbup:


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Not necessarily. UR makes a LSD for the front diffy, just the $109,000 stage3 kit deletes the front diffy all together. AFAIK only 3 Lambo's have kept the front diffy with the upgraded LSD :thumbup::thumbup:


I mean on the VAG gearbox :beer:

with TBD diff, the front-right wheel could lose all traction (lifted, snow, sand...etc) and no power will got to the rear diff :thumbup:


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

EL_3grab said:


> I mean on the VAG gearbox :beer:
> 
> with TBD diff, the front-right wheel could lose all traction (lifted, snow, sand...etc) and no power will got to the rear diff :thumbup:


It doesn't work that way for obvious reasons (it is a vw though so who the ef knows what dumb **** they'll try and pull). 

Front wheels are connected to the front diff. T-case is connected to final drive and has no correlation with the front diff mechanism (spiders, lsd clutches, what have u). 

You certainly wouldn't 3 of your tires driven by one side of a differential...

Side ?: Does that lambo front diff use a viscious coupler or something of the sort?


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

akauf said:


> T-case is connected to final drive


T-case is connected to the right output from the gearbox


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

EL_3grab said:


> T-case is connected to the right output from the gearbox


nope, it isnt, i assure you. Look at the flaw you pointed out Do u think that sounds like a good design? Right side of the front diff gives power to all 3 wheels and left side to one wheel. All that load on one side of the diff would be poor performing and unreliable to say the least.

Now look at the picture you posted. See where it says hollow shaft? That hollow shaft connects the t-case to the diff cage. Inside of this hollow shaft is the front right axle shaft. The axle shaft passes through this hollow shaft and connects to the right spider (or lsd, or whatever). it is a shaft inside of a shaft and I ASSURE U the right front axle DOES NOT connect to the t-case. The diff cage, thus direct connection to final drive, is how the t-case receives power input.


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## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

akauf said:


> nope, it isnt, i assure you. Look at the flaw you pointed out Do u think that sounds like a good design? Right side of the front diff gives power to all 3 wheels and left side to one wheel. All that load on one side of the diff would be poor performing and unreliable to say the least.
> 
> Now look at the picture you posted. See where it says hollow shaft? That hollow shaft connects the t-case to the diff cage. Inside of this hollow shaft is the front right axle shaft. The axle shaft passes through this hollow shaft and connects to the right spider (or lsd, or whatever). it is a shaft inside of a shaft and I ASSURE U the right front axle DOES NOT connect to the t-case. The diff cage, thus direct connection to final drive, is how the t-case receives power input.


and I thought I knew my **** , thanks for clearing that up, its actually make alot more sense :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I dont know about the coupler bs, but the Gallardo is full time awd. This WILL handle 1300ftlbstq before it starts to eat the gearing inside. UR makes custom rings for the differential to handle godly amounts of torque and horsepower. I figured it would have to be run with a full locking front differential because it is not a Haldex unit that kicks on when its told the front wheels are losing traction, so why not :laugh: Also it would be sweet to have full time awd  

It is a pipe dream as of right now, we just have one in our posession and I want to use it in something :laugh: Who knows maybe over winter I will try to locate a transfer case for the front opcorn:


----------



## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

EL_3grab said:


> and I thought I knew my **** , thanks for clearing that up, its actually make alot more sense :thumbup:


haha, no prob dude. I think this is a common misconception. I wasnt sure how it worked until i had a t-case off a trans and a good look at a diff for a awd vs a diff for a fwd. The inner and outer shaft clears it up.:thumbup:

The biggest flaw of the 4motion / haldex is still the lack of a center diff set up.

Also just noticed your the same guy posting in morphin's thread in golfmkv! All over these awd I5 swaps huh?

These builds have me thinking about converting the awd i did to a 2.5 and ditching that fsi bs.


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

The gallardo unit would make VW awd conversions much simpler then wouldn't it?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

He is wrong about one thing tho... The right axle does connect to the transfer case just doesnt power it


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> The gallardo unit would make VW awd conversions much simpler then wouldn't it?


Sure... No wiring and recoding to do... BUT expensive, the differential unit itself goes for ~$2000 and you would have to have a custom drive shaft made, possibly custom axles(Im goin to see if 
r32 axles fit or if Gallardo axles will match the rear knuckle splines). On top of that you would need to fabricate brackets for it


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Fabrication being a non issue, what if any o2m tranny is the final drive compatible with?


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I dont know about the coupler bs, but the Gallardo is full time awd. This WILL handle 1300ftlbstq before it starts to eat the gearing inside. UR makes custom rings for the differential to handle godly amounts of torque and horsepower. I figured it would have to be run with a full locking front differential because it is not a Haldex unit that kicks on when its told the front wheels are losing traction, so why not :laugh: Also it would be sweet to have full time awd
> 
> It is a pipe dream as of right now, we just have one in our posession and I want to use it in something :laugh: Who knows maybe over winter I will try to locate a transfer case for the front opcorn:


Thats a front diff right? Which way does the drive shaft spin to drive it? 

Background info: The 4 motion drive shaft spins ( if looking down the drive shaft form the front of the car at the input of the rear diff) clockwise (CW).

Situation 1: if this lambo diff receives a CW input (again looking at the input shaft to the diff) in a lambo, it would spin the wheels backwards if simply turned 180 degrees in a rwd application. You would have to rotate it 180 degrees and flip it upside down and then the pan would be on the bottom.

Situation 2:Now say the lambo diff receives a ccw input. The gears re now meshing on the wrong faces when the diff is turned 180 degrees and accepting a cw input from the 4motion drive shaft. Not going to work for helical gears. Reverse cut R&P is needed.


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> He is wrong about one thing tho... The right axle does connect to the transfer case just doesnt power it


the axle goes THROUGH the transfer case, as I previously explained. There is a bolt inside the axle shaft about 9 inches in that bolts the right front axle to the front diff. It spins freely inside the t-case and is carried by a bearing where it exits the t-case housing on the right side.


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

no wiring and no different ABS controller + no lag :thumbup::thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97Yatmybd1s

all time 50:50 F/R split.

In essence any compact diff-case with 1:1 ratio and available choice of LSD


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

akauf said:


> Thats a front diff right? Which way does the drive shaft spin to drive it?
> 
> Situation 1: The 4 motion drive shaft spins ( if looking down the drive shaft form the front of the car at the input of the rear diff) clockwise (CW). if this lambo diff receives a CW input (again looking at the input shaft to the diff) in a lambo, it would spin the wheels backwards if simply turned 180 degrees in a rwd application. You would have to rotate it 180 degrees and flip it upside down and then the pan would be on the bottom.
> 
> Situation 2:Now say the lambo diff receives a ccw input. The gears re now meshing on the wrong faces when the diff is turned 180 degrees and accepting a cw input from the 4motion drive shaft. Not going to work for helical gears. Reverse cut R&P is needed.


Its either or. You can turn it cw and ccw and the left and right hubs rotate either way. Are they helical gears or straight cut.... Like I said its a pipe dream right now, but it was in an audi and the owner wanted to go with a solid rear axle for a drag car, so this is laying around for now. Im going to call UR next week to see if they are in fact helical if So I may have reverse cuts made at a shop in Akron that cuts custom gears.


----------



## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Its either or. You can turn it cw and ccw and the left and right hubs rotate either way. Are they helical gears or straight cut.... Like I said its a pipe dream right now, but it was in an audi and the owner wanted to go with a solid rear axle for a drag car, so this is laying around for now. Im going to call UR next week to see if they are in fact helical if So I may have reverse cuts made at a shop in Akron that cuts custom gears.


I am asking which way the input shaft turns in its normal orientation because that is the only way the the r&p teeth will mesh properly. Spinning it backwards works by hand but with torque applied it WILL sheer the teeth off the gears fast! A shop like you mentioned would likely need to make you a r&p.

Also, I asked about the viscous coupler because it must disconnect like the haldex or synchro coupling because with 4 motion there is no center diff. Ever see how a dsm drives with a welded center?? Drag strip ONLY use is all I can say. Looking the haldex yields the same results. You wont be able to park or turn in any kind of a tight radius. it will bind and snap / break axles, drive shafts and mounts. Not something you want to drive if your planning on making any turns at all really.

It looks like that's the way it works and I'd assume they would want the front wheels to disconnect when traction is no issue.

Not trying to shoot down your "pipe dreams", just genuinly interested in the possiblities of the lambo parts and being realistic about potential downfalls / issues. Outside the box is the way to be:thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

akauf said:


> Ever see how a dsm drives with a welded center??
> Not trying to shoot down your "pipe dreams", just genuinly interested in the possiblities of the lambo parts and being realistic about potential downfalls / issues. Outside the box is the way to be:thumbup:


 A new r&p would be 2k said and done.


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

wouldn't it be easier to delete the haldex coupling and make some kind of adapter between the the pinion and the drive shaft


----------



## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

EL_3grab said:


> wouldn't it be easier to delete the haldex coupling and make some kind of adapter between the the pinion and the drive shaft


Thought about that on the mkv project I was working on too. Problem goes back to the lack of a center diff. See my previous post.

You can lock the clutch by replacing the worm screw the stepper motor turns in and out with a bolt. This is what regulates the pressure applied to the clutch. Once the haldex pump starts it would take a few seconds to pressurize but after that it would be full lock all the time. 

At that point you can put a switch in to turn the pump on and off but there would a wait for the pressure to drop and build. Again, go for the drag strip, no good for street or road course use.


Ultimately I decided to wire it like stock and will be getting UM to make some adjustments.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

All I can say is wow..... Now all the gears in my head are turning about a potential new setup


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> All I can say is wow..... Now all the gears in my head are turning about a potential new setup


do tell


----------



## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

yes do tell!

Also add a long runner manifold to those new ideas Make power all the way to 10k

Short runner / log style cant do that:beer:


----------



## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

man not having seen this thread before made me realize how long its been since I've popped in here. Definitely keeping my eyes on this and rereading through a few times over the next few days. Planning on snagging another BGP up to build in about a year in preparation for a Precision Billet 6262 ball bearing. AWD conversion will definitely be following behind that shortly.


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> man not having seen this thread before made me realize how long its been since I've popped in here. Definitely keeping my eyes on this and rereading through a few times over the next few days. Planning on snagging another BGP up to build in about a year in preparation for a Precision Billet 6262 ball bearing. AWD conversion will definitely be following behind that shortly.


----------



## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

eh not quite, anyone on here who knows me knows this will happen but will take forever


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> eh not quite, anyone on here who knows me knows this will happen but will take forever


Don't get upset bud.. Read in the context of the thread it begged for a "CSB"


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Small update coming soon. The engine is officially back together and the T4 turbo manifold is complete.


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Does that mean we'll be getting a dyno then soon?:beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Yes dyno stuff will be coming soon.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Just a little tease. Also these will be available for sale very soon. T4 turbo manifolds.  it has a V-band flange for MVR 44mm Tial wastegates.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Hm I like that one. Is there not enough room for a tubular manifold like EJ tried to make? Im just curious as to why every option is log style? NBD just curious


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

just waiiting for the final prod, and dynos


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Its been awhile, any updates or numbers yet?:wave:


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Eurotuner magazine has asked us to *keep things a little on the down low* as they want to be able to show the progress in their magazine so I told them I wouldn't update with pics until something comes out from them.
> 
> -AWD swap is done
> -Integrated Engineering has teamed up with us on this project
> -wheels are CCW Classics


we just have to wait.... as always!


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I know that already but they said they'd get some numbers for the NA setup about a month ago and that time has gone and past. I dont need anymore pics, just want some numbers. If they gotta be hush hush tho then whatever, Ill wait. Im just curious what kinda power it will have NA but Id still like to follow the rest of the build too.


----------



## mar10 (Feb 20, 2010)

tay272 said:


> I know that already but they said they'd get some numbers for the NA setup about a month ago and that time has gone and past. I dont need anymore pics, just want some numbers. If they gotta be hush hush tho then whatever, Ill wait. Im just curious what kinda power it will have NA but Id still like to follow the rest of the build too.


Agreed, I want video of this beast though


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

guys, we have to wait for the article... 

i am fairly sure that we will be kept on the dark...


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> guys, we have to wait for the article...
> 
> i am fairly sure that we will be kept on the dark...


This. Oh and ship me that manifold


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Hm I like that one. Is there not enough room for a tubular manifold like EJ tried to make? Im just curious as to why every option is log style? NBD just curious


Guy that made this manifold made a long runner before. 

HE Performance, pics are here: http://www.heperformance.com/customerrides.html


07 rabbit, click see more details

Also check out the volvette, there is a video on utube of it running a r1


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

akauf said:


> Guy that made this manifold made a long runner before.
> 
> HE Performance, pics are here: http://www.heperformance.com/customerrides.html


Cool, never seen this. Very sexy.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Wow, that turbo mani is sexy!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

akauf said:


> Guy that made this manifold made a long runner before.
> 
> HE Performance, pics are here: http://www.heperformance.com/customerrides.html
> 
> ...


Yea Ive seen that a few years ago... Are you sure HEP made this log runner?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

that mani is Andre's (audi4u)


----------



## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

Wow crazy bad ass Rabbit


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

read this month's eurotuner. there is a lil section where they are writing about the progress of the wabbit.


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I searched yesterday for it but didnt find anything, you got a link at all for that?


----------



## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

thygreyt said:


> read this month's eurotuner. there is a lil section where they are writing about the progress of the wabbit.


 Saw it in there too.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

its on the magazine itself.


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Oh I gotcha, thought they had it on thier site as well.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

A little update for you guys. Hopefully soon here I can unload a ton of pics and videos of the car. :thumbup:


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

holy shiz! is done!?

i love it!!!!!!!!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Hm


----------



## DirtyCandy (Nov 23, 2010)

sounds hot!!


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Beastly!


----------



## gonyofam3 (Oct 2, 2007)

nice :beer: any dyno results yet?


----------



## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

dubinsincuwereindiapers approves of the end product :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2011)

gonyofam3 said:


> nice :beer: any dyno results yet?



Yep. I think we are waiting for Eurotuner GP results.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Dyno results will be posted once the Eurotuner GP results are out. I think everyone will be pleasantly surprised. We dynoed the car at 25psi and we were going to push it more but..... Well you will just have to wait and see.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> ... 25psi ...


opcorn:


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Hope you guys still dynoed the NA setup before you slapped the turbo on it, still interested in the overall results. Its looking good :thumbup:.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

2.5L at 25psi? 

love it.

a mod list would be awesome too!

and lastly, is it a permanent AWD?

you guys have to "explain" somewhere how you did it!


----------



## 07wolfsburg (Mar 7, 2008)

love it, debating trying to do an awd in my gli


----------



## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I want to convert my R32 to permanent awd...


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Ok so first off I want to apologize for the lack of updates. We had promised Eurotuner that we would let them show updates in their magazine before updating this thread but I have a ton of pics to show and hopefully I can answer any questions people might have so here goes.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)




----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Moar!!!

Custom cage or did you guys order it?


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Whats a good source to find the rear end and Haldex... You guys seem to find them like they are stock piled somewhere, but I cannot find them anywhere. Im about to go over to Zleeps house with some tools, and turn his R back into a Rabbit.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)




----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

I don't have any of the rear end stuff from the .:R I parted out a couple of years ago but I still got the awd dsg tranny if anyone wants it.

Sent from my phone.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

DerekH said:


> Moar!!!
> 
> Custom cage or did you guys order it?


Custom cage. 



kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Whats a good source to find the rear end and Haldex... You guys seem to find them like they are stock piled somewhere, but I cannot find them anywhere. Im about to go over to Zleeps house with some tools, and turn his R back into a Rabbit.


We have our sources for Haldex and rear end components. They are around but its hard to find them. Shoot me an email and I can help you out if you are interested. [email protected]


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Looks pretty good and probably tons of fun to be behind the wheel of.

Sent from my phone.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Anyway I can have you guys make me something?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

that R conversion looks way easier than MKIV one's. :thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> that R conversion looks way easier than MKIV one's. :thumbup:


It is. When I do it Im doing a fuel cell. Pretty much cut out the spare well, make a Haldex support and bolt it all up, weld in a flat plate or shorten the well 6-8" and weld it back in. The thing that concerns me is wiring, and coding.... It has to be pricey Id imagine


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

This is amazing. opcorn:


----------



## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Oh wow, oh wow, oh wow...

I think this is what Steve Jobs was talking about.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/ct-met-schmich-1102-20111102,0,211422.column


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

That is a massive intake pipe.

What are the wheel and tire specs?

Also, any more pics of the cage? I eventually want to put one in my car, pics of the tie in points would be awesome. I wouldn't do a full halo like that one has. Probably just a basic hoop in the back and knee knockers.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

looks like 3 or 3.5". The inlet on my R32 is 4".


----------



## DrivenAllDay (Mar 13, 2010)

[email protected] said:


>


FRESH!!!!










Gabe, when's the kit going to be available? :wave: :laugh:


----------



## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

Any news on the exhaust manifolds being sold? Id definitely be interested in one but with a t3 flange if possible


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i called bw performance the minute i saw this, and funny enough Gabe himself answered the phone.

i was surprised to how "humble" (?) he was... i was expecting a gloating guy saying "yes, i'm the one who did the 4wd conversion" or something along the lines of "oh, that project? i was bored, so i did it"... but no, he was as excited as i was about it!

he answered every question i had... although, the answer in the power dpt was: "you'll find out on eurotuner!"
but i could tell that he was proud of it, cause you could "hear" the smile behind the voice... and hey, if he is happy, so am i! 

i am pretty stocked to see this running, and going FAST. i love the 2.5 (no secret there) and seriously, i get pretty happy and ecstatic when i read about this sort of projects! i couldnt stop telling gabe: congrats on such an achievement!

well.. to conclude, i'll ask: how hard was it to get the ECU talking to the tranny? since its a haldex, then i'm assuming there has to be some sort of communication?

its projects like this what make me want to keep my 2.5 for ever, and keep doing stuff along the way...


----------



## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Whats a good source to find the rear end and Haldex... You guys seem to find them like they are stock piled somewhere, but I cannot find them anywhere. Im about to go over to Zleeps house with some tools, and turn his R back into a Rabbit.


Whoa, WHOA!!!!!


Do it to PSU, not me.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

DerekH said:


> That is a massive intake pipe.
> 
> What are the wheel and tire specs?
> 
> Also, any more pics of the cage? I eventually want to put one in my car, pics of the tie in points would be awesome. I wouldn't do a full halo like that one has. Probably just a basic hoop in the back and knee knockers.


The turbo inlet is 4" but the turbo inlet pipe goes down to a 3.5" because that is what diameter the custom MAF isThe wheels are 18 x 10.5" CCW Classics. The tires we had been running besides the Continental Extreme Contact DWs which were 295/35/18 were Hoosier A6 315/30/18 all the way around. I will try to get some more detailed pics of the cage posted up to give you a better idea also :thumbup:



MattWayMK5 said:


> Any news on the exhaust manifolds being sold? Id definitely be interested in one but with a t3 flange if possible


The exhaust manifolds are available for sale both in the T3 version and the T4 version. These are thick and extremely strong manifolds made out of Schedule 40 mild steel which has a 3/16" thick wall. The manifolds are bulletproof and will not crack like typical tubular thin walled manifolds however they are all custom made and not a cheap foreign casting manifold. Pricing on all of the parts and complete kits should be released shortly. 



thygreyt said:


> i called bw performance the minute i saw this, and funny enough Gabe himself answered the phone.
> 
> i was surprised to how "humble" (?) he was... i was expecting a gloating guy saying "yes, i'm the one who did the 4wd conversion" or something along the lines of "oh, that project? i was bored, so i did it"... but no, he was as excited as i was about it!
> 
> ...


 Thank you very much for the kind compliments. I am very excited about this motor and all of its potential.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I am very excited about this motor and all of its potential.


i'll be here on the "other side" waiting for all the releases.


----------



## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

very nice :thumbup: how are you running the charge piping to the intercooler? along the pullies like how the tt-rs is run? or along the oil pan like C2's kit?


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The turbo inlet is 4" but the turbo inlet pipe goes down to a 3.5" because that is what diameter the custom MAF isThe wheels are 18 x 10.5" CCW Classics. The tires we had been running besides the Continental Extreme Contact DWs which were 295/35/18 were Hoosier A6 315/30/18 all the way around. I will try to get some more detailed pics of the cage posted up to give you a better idea also :thumbup:


Any chance you know the offset? Man people freaked out when i started running 255s 315s are crazy! I'm assuming you guys made those fender flares, but if you didn't where did you pick them up? Thanks for the info! pretty incredible build really looking forward to seeing more of it.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TeamZleep said:


> Whoa, WHOA!!!!!
> 
> 
> Do it to PSU, not me.


No I want yours :thumbup: Its new and not ruined by being low  Ill see you this weekend, thanks for the free rear end :beer:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Pricing on all of the parts and complete kits should be released shortly.


Pm'd you about something on the car I want pretty bad :thumbup:


----------



## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

DarkSideGTI said:


> looks like 3 or 3.5". The inlet on my R32 is 4".


I run 3.5" on the inlet and 4" for downpipe and exhaust for my R32T


----------



## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

[email protected] said:


>


did you know that ugly white dot comes off the valve cover? I finally rubbed mine off this past weekend:laugh:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Any chance you know the offset? Man people freaked out when i started running 255s 315s are crazy! I'm assuming you guys made those fender flares, but if you didn't where did you pick them up? Thanks for the info! pretty incredible build really looking forward to seeing more of it.


Im not positive but the flares look like Allroad flares


----------



## DrivenAllDay (Mar 13, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> i called bw performance the minute i saw this, and funny enough Gabe himself answered the phone.
> 
> i was surprised to how "humble" (?) he was... i was expecting a gloating guy saying "yes, i'm the one who did the 4wd conversion" or something along the lines of "oh, that project? i was bored, so i did it"... but no, he was as excited as i was about it!
> 
> ...



Truth, Gabe is very humble, and very helpful... I ordered my UM SRI from BWperformance, and when I called to place the order, Gabe answered the call, he actually put up with about 5 or 6 phone calls with me asking questions ( I was calling every second, it seemed ), and he never came off like he was too busy, or had any sale that was of more value than mine. He sold me the mani, gave me an expected delivery, and everything was perfect.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

pennsydubbin said:


> very nice :thumbup: how are you running the charge piping to the intercooler? along the pullies like how the tt-rs is run? or along the oil pan like C2's kit?


The charge pipe runs right in front of the crank pulley.


----------



## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> No I want yours :thumbup: Its new and not ruined by being low  Ill see you this weekend, thanks for the free rear end :beer:


Lol, you better get here before Saturday then... Wawa and I are spinnin' and grinnin' those perches. I'm gonna call the car Slam Maloney.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TeamZleep said:


> Lol, you better get here before Saturday then... Wawa and I are spinnin' and grinnin' those perches. I'm gonna call the car Slam Maloney.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Also, are you running into any binding problems with the steering running tires that wide? Id figure the steering feel would suffer pretty dramatically and it would be pretty stiff steering.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

DerekH said:


> Any chance you know the offset? Man people freaked out when i started running 255s 315s are crazy! I'm assuming you guys made those fender flares, but if you didn't where did you pick them up? Thanks for the info! pretty incredible build really looking forward to seeing more of it.


The offset is like 4. We custom made the fender flares out of a set of Audi Allroad flares. It is a ton of work to make them fit right and look right. I have about 4 hours in each corner. 




mldouthi said:


> Im not positive but the flares look like Allroad flares


Ding Ding Ding 



DerekH said:


> Also, are you running into any binding problems with the steering running tires that wide? Id figure the steering feel would suffer pretty dramatically and it would be pretty stiff steering.


No we aren't running into any issues with the steering binding at all.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Cool, thanks i kind of figured it was going to be something like 5-10.

What did you guys do for the tachometer? seeing as the stock one only goes to 8k


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

DerekH said:


> What did you guys do for the tachometer? seeing as the stock one only goes to 8k


 I was wondering about this to and does it really rev to 10k?


Sent from my phone.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

DerekH said:


> Cool, thanks i kind of figured it was going to be something like 5-10.
> 
> What did you guys do for the tachometer? seeing as the stock one only goes to 8k


We still are using the stock gauge but plan on changing all of that this winter. 



vwluger22 said:


> I was wondering about this to and does it really rev to 10k?
> 
> Sent from my phone.


We currently have the Rev-Limiter set to 9k and it pulls to redline pretty well. Once we have the engine broken in a little more though we will be turning it up. :laugh:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ill just say it......






In a few years when its forsale I call dibs :thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Also are you guys using one of IE's 044 surge tanks? Im thinking of using one, but lost on where to mount it outside the interior.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Yes we are running a single 044 with an IE Surge tank and it is mounted up next to the passenger side rail where the metal bumper mounts. On the front side that is. Sorry for the crappy pics but hopefully you get the idea.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Ok :thumbup: That fits nicely in that area.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ok :thumbup: That fits nicely in that area.


Just remember he has no spare tire well. It will probably be in the way on your car.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Just remember he has no spare tire well. It will probably be in the way on your car.


I looked I can run it facing toward the exhaust tips, or just cut the well out, I dont use it.


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I looked I can run it facing toward the exhaust tips, or just cut the well out, I dont use it.


Both options work, all good info to have.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Awesome project, Gabe!
Can't wait for the Eurotuner spread. :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

When does the eurotuner come out? I want to know how bad our crank is going to be. I'm guessing they went through a few at the tune of ~120hp a bolt failure limit by my estimate. :laugh:


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

Car looks awesome Gabe, great job. :thumbup:


----------



## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

EP werks was talking about your e85 cars. They are still talking about the last one! They were there in that 400hp S4. This your probably know though :laugh:

I got e85 on every other corner gabe! Very interested!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> EP werks was talking about your e85 cars. They are still talking about the last one! They were there in that 400hp S4. This your probably know though :laugh:
> 
> I got e85 on every other corner gabe! Very interested!


Its good for track days, and lessening your chances of detonation, which if your not turbo'd doesnt really matter. The consumption is far greater, but the power is pretty decent. At least here in Ohio 93oct is cheaper and goes further per gallon than e85. At our rate 1 gallon of 93= almost 2 gallons of e85 in its consumption rate, I do plan on running it in the Corrado :thumbup:


----------



## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

meh, with enough compression bump and a lousy enough combustion chamber design, i could see e85 doing a lot on this motor.

IN FOR THE RESULTS!!!! There had better be some pictures of bent TTRS cranks in that eurotuner


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tchilds said:


> meh, with enough compression bump and a lousy enough combustion chamber design, i could see e85 doing a lot on this motor.
> 
> IN FOR THE RESULTS!!!! There had better be some pictures of bent TTRS cranks in that eurotuner


I heard its only ~400awhp, so no bent cranks if thats the case... We'll see...


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I heard its only ~400awhp, so no bent cranks if thats the case... We'll see...


lol, all this project, and only 400 AW hp? nah... i think gabe wouldnt have settled for anything less than 550.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> lol, all this project, and only 400 AW hp? nah... i think gabe wouldnt have settled for anything less than 550.


I read capable of 600bhp, ~400awhp. But who knows. They have the full length test video up, where it also says ~400awhp in the description... I know they said they dynod at 25 psi which I hope would be over 550, but if its not being drivin at that boost level, and power, that dyno doesnt really matter now does it.... Still its an amazing machine, we'll see when they can actually release more info. By the sheet of whats done, the Haldex and gear box would be the only thing limiting power and torque, So it should be capable of 800awhp at 5600, just gets sketchy around 600tq, gears start to evaporate.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

tchilds said:


> EP werks was talking about your e85 cars. They are still talking about the last one! They were there in that 400hp S4. This your probably know though :laugh:
> 
> I got e85 on every other corner gabe! Very interested!


Yeah they seemed to like the car. :laugh: E85 is amazing. Thats all I can say.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I heard its only ~400awhp, so no bent cranks if thats the case... We'll see...


400awhp is impressive on a 2.5L especially considering the drivetrain loss which is typically around 21-24% depending on who you talk to however this car I can assure you is over 400awhp! :laugh: also we haven't turned the boost up past 22-25psi and the reason being is that we lost our gauge but didn't want to turn it way up however this thing eventually will be able to handle 30-35psi at least on the motor side.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Have you guys figured out a fix to the rear haldex tq capacity, as well as the gear box? I could see this making around 600-650awhp, which is a huge feat in itself, like you said with the drive loss.


----------



## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> 400awhp is impressive on a 2.5L especially considering the drivetrain loss which is typically around 21-24% depending on who you talk to however this car I can assure you is over 400awhp! :laugh: also we haven't turned the boost up past 22-25psi and the reason being is that we lost our gauge but didn't want to turn it way up however this thing eventually will be able to handle 30-35psi at least on the motor side.


Sent you a PM about some info last week. Not sure if you got it or not tho


----------



## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> 400awhp is impressive on a 2.5L especially considering the drivetrain loss which is typically around 21-24% depending on who you talk to however this car I can assure you is over 400awhp! :laugh: also we haven't turned the boost up past 22-25psi and the reason being is that we lost our gauge but didn't want to turn it way up however this thing eventually will be able to handle 30-35psi at least on the motor side.


Just don't lose the flux capacitor


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

MattWayMK5 said:


> Sent you a PM about some info last week. Not sure if you got it or not tho


 Could you please send it again? I apologize but I never received a PM from you. 



kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Have you guys figured out a fix to the rear haldex tq capacity, as well as the gear box? I could see this making around 600-650awhp, which is a huge feat in itself, like you said with the drive loss.


The rear Haldex TQ capacity is not an issue at all. :laugh:


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

are you using the OEM ECU or standalone..?


----------



## MattWayMK5 (Dec 17, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Could you please send it again? I apologize but I never received a PM from you.


Sent :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> are you using the OEM ECU or standalone..?


OEM ECU. With UM software there is no need ever to do standalone.


----------



## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

yay finally some good news.


----------



## RAD32 (Dec 21, 2004)

Gabe, i just bought the old NGP Turbo Rabbit last weekend.:thumbup:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5470729-2007-Rabbit-(Turbo)&highlight=turbo+rabbit

Any info on the short Runner intake, And I want more rev's out of. Thoughts on that.


----------



## RAD32 (Dec 21, 2004)

Oh yeah, Info on those sweet WIDE motorsports fender flares, please


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

RAD32 said:


> Gabe, i just bought the old NGP Turbo Rabbit last weekend.:thumbup:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5470729-2007-Rabbit-(Turbo)&highlight=turbo+rabbit
> 
> Any info on the short Runner intake, And I want more rev's out of. Thoughts on that.


Give me a call. (303)800-7193
I have lots of good info that I could give you. :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

So we have had nothing good whatsoever come out of this cooling system. Even with our CSR Electric Water Pump. So we decided to purchase an R32 front core support which has more room for a larger radiator and we are going to make a custom aluminum radiator which should have twice the capacity as the stock Rabbit one. :thumbup:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Sounds pretty sweet id like to see some pics of that while it's in process if that is possible.

Thanks!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

The 08 R32 Mishimoto radiator fits.... With modification to the bottom of the core support. I test fit 2 and the second fit, the first one I bought the ports were to big for the clips to seal the hose  But the second one fits. My local VW dealer showed me the Rabbit and R32 have the same radiator part number 08 manual for 08 DSG


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> The 08 R32 Mishimoto radiator fits.... With modification to the bottom of the core support. I test fit 2 and the second fit, the first one I bought the ports were to big for the clips to seal the hose  But the second one fits. My local VW dealer showed me the Rabbit and R32 have the same radiator part number 08 manual for 08 DSG


The radiator does not fit in the 07 Rabbit. The mounting points are different and the size is different. The good news is that the 08 R32 radiator has 54 fins vs the 32 on the stock 07 Rabbit and we found that it held around 1.5 liters more water than the Rabbit radiator, and yes the Mishimoto radiators are hit or miss as far as the fittings working correctly without leaking. :thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

So there really is that big of a difference between 07 and 08 :sly: Mishimoto told me that the 1.8t radiator would fit, but the R32 is the same dims, just a 1.5" taller, sits lower. I have to cut a relief slot for it to portrude, but it fits. I also have to shave out the corners of the core support for the wider end points if I want to do it right. I also want to find some silicone coolant hoses shaped for the 2.5 setup... Any ideas on that?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Well honestly after looking at the Mishimoto radiator I am not convinced that it will cool more efficiently. It might have a larger capacity, about 20 oz more but the fin setup seems cheap compared to the OEM one.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Well honestly after looking at the Mishimoto radiator I am not convinced that it will cool more efficiently. It might have a larger capacity, about 20 oz more but the fin setup seems cheap compared to the OEM one.


See there is our difference :thumbup: I just dont want plastic end tanks, that could malfunction with high heat, and your out for making every cooler degree count :thumbup::thumbup: If I get some extra cooling out of a 200 dollar full aluminum radiator Ill be happy :beer: If not eh like I said its not the best but I do feel it is a better option over stock :beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

On display.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Is it forsale?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

no, just displaying it on a dealer


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> no, just displaying it on a dealer


Surprised VWOA would allow that :sly: Usually dealers frown on modifications as we all know. Mainly so we buy their bs add ons that make the car "sporty"


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

At a local dealer here they had a show few years ago and they filled the show room with monified vw's.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

vwluger22 said:


> At a local dealer here they had a show few years ago and they filled the show room with monified vw's.


Ya the ones around me have shows but never inside... Idk would be sweet to walk in and see that


----------



## TheZooKeeper (Jan 28, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Surprised VWOA would allow that :sly: Usually dealers frown on modifications as we all know. Mainly so we buy their bs add ons that make the car "sporty"


It's not VWoA's call, it's the dealership's. Whatever makes people buy more cars....


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## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Custom cage.
> 
> 
> 
> We have our sources for Haldex and rear end components. They are around but its hard to find them. Shoot me an email and I can help you out if you are interested. [email protected]


Hey Gabe so what would it cost to covert mk5 rabbit or jetta to awd parts wise and than labor wise?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

labor is the expansive part.

on parts only it would be 3-5k


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Is it forsale?


Yes its for sale. I traded it for a Jetta Sportwagon. It gets better gas mileage. Hahaha


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

vr6-kamil said:


> Hey Gabe so what would it cost to covert mk5 rabbit or jetta to awd parts wise and than labor wise?


Depending on where we can find parts, everything parts wise would run around $7k. That is for everything, Trans, Mounting Parts, R32 Fuel Tank, R32 Rear drivetrain and suspension, etc...


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## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Depending on where we can find parts, everything parts wise would run around $7k. That is for everything, Trans, Mounting Parts, R32 Fuel Tank, R32 Rear drivetrain and suspension, etc...


Wow thanks, not bad. What about labor for somebody like yourself?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Labor is a pricey part. I would say somewhere around 25-30 hours.


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## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

25-30 hours of labor is alot less than 7k in parts.....

Unless you have a gold plated shop with an open bar and free lap dances :laugh:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Assuming you can get the parts for 7k, then the awd project turns into 10k installed.

sent from tapatalk


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## timmiller05 (Mar 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Labor is the pricey part. I would say somewhere around 25-30 hours.





thygreyt said:


> Assuming you can get the parts for 7k, then the awd project turns into 10k installed.
> 
> sent from tapatalk


Roger that grey, I was referring to Gabe's previous post


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

I wasn't meaning it is pricier than the parts I was just trying to make a point that the labor adds a bit to the total as well. 10k-12k total I would say is a solid estimate.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

Man I gotta start steppin my game up a little now that theres a few huge 2.5 builds out there

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Here is the latest teaser video from the 2011 GP which Bluewater Performance was proud to be a part of!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Looks awesome. Got the rabbit right up front in the group shot :thumbup: Right where it belongs.


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

:heart:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

love it!


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Thanks for the support everyone!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

That Laguna Seca blue M3 sounds like a f*cking fighter jet


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## Jamaican_tuner (Aug 4, 2004)

:thumbup:


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## Gott ist gut (Jul 2, 2010)

*Spoiler Alert* 
Don't watch if you're waiting for the mag. 

etGP 2012


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

I love the Bluewater car. Just amazing.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I love how its only shown for maybe 3 seconds the entire movie haha.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Thats because 034 made that video not Eurotuner and they didn't want us to be seen in it I am sure :laugh:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Thats because 034 made that video not Eurotuner and they didn;t want us to be seen in it I am sure :laugh:


 Both cars are amazing... I love the mid engined and the incredible 2.5

sent from tapatalk


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Thats because 034 made that video not Eurotuner and they didn;t want us to be seen in it I am sure :laugh:


 Yeah that is true haha. Still a very nicely built car.


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## twoteks (Dec 1, 2005)

So when does the mag come out? Read through the entire thread and would love to hear more about everything. Also sending you a PM Gabe. :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

twoteks said:


> So when does the mag come out? Read through the entire thread and would love to hear more about everything. Also sending you a PM Gabe. :thumbup:


 its already out. 

i picked it up last weekend :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Subscribe to the magazine!!
Um.. on it the talk all about this car... Its awesome!

sent from tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Excellent project and way to hold it down in the Eurotuner GP. :thumbup: 
Too bad you were having heat issue on the road course. Dyno and 1/4 mile are impressive though! 
Can't wait to have our own 2.5T here at the shop.


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## ArminT (Mar 8, 2010)

Ah i wish i got eurotuner mag so i could read more about this. 

Also that gtirs was rear engine awd? Cuz i got lost when he said the Quattro trans would send 100% power to the front diff. 

Anyways is their a video of the 2.5l? id like to see it


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

ArminT said:


> Ah i wish i got eurotuner mag so i could read more about this.
> 
> Also that gtirs was rear engine awd? Cuz i got lost when he said the Quattro trans would send 100% power to the front diff.
> 
> Anyways is their a video of the 2.5l? id like to see it


 Pretty sure its rear wheel drive and they were just using an awd trans and needed to lock the center diff on it. so they could get power out of it.


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## ArminT (Mar 8, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Pretty sure its rear wheel drive and they were just using an awd trans and needed to lock the center diff on it. so they could get power out of it.


oh thats makes sence then.


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## gonyofam3 (Oct 2, 2007)

How about some numbers since the magazine is out.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

gonyofam3 said:


> How about some numbers since the magazine is out.


lol, either read the magazine, or the thread!

but the info is put here.


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## [email protected] (Sep 2, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Can't wait to have our own 2.5T here at the shop.



Give us a call when you need some proper turbo 2.5L tuning. :beer:


Big props to Gabe and the Bluewater guys for pushing the envelope here. These
guys are always asking for more. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Give us a call when you need some *proper* turbo 2.5L tuning. :beer:


lol. nicely played!  :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Some photos from the GP


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

Car looks great. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Car looks great. :thumbup:


Thanks.


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Just wanted to cross post this from another thread in regards to our dyno numbers. 



nothing-leaves-stock said:


> i'll say it again and again...it's a way different motor...way too different.
> 
> also. what is your plans to get 1000? BW just built a killer setup with E85 and only(only haha, its a lot) 615 fWHP. where are you finding the other 400whp?
> not knocking you...just interested as to what you plan?


Just an FYI the 619FWHP was put down only at 20psi and only pushing to around 7500 RPM. The reason being is that the night before we had sheared the ARP flywheel bolts at the strip and decided to put some generic grade 5 bolts (all that was available) back in along with welding the flywheel to the crank. So needless to say we were taking it easy. Since the event we have redone the motor and have done many pulls past 9k rpm and have boosted it over 35psi. Trust me its faster. We hope to dyno soon AWD but I promise 1000AWHP is possible with this motor. (Our current setup, I am guessing can produce around 850awhp. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

bw and hep did an awesome job... congrats


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## Skaffles (May 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Just wanted to cross post this from another thread in regards to our dyno numbers.
> 
> 
> 
> Just an FYI the 619FWHP was put down only at 20psi and only pushing to around 7500 RPM. The reason being is that the night before we had sheared the ARP flywheel bolts at the strip and decided to put some generic grade 5 bolts (all that was available) back in along with welding the flywheel to the crank. So needless to say we were taking it easy. Since the event we have redone the motor and have done many pulls past 9k rpm and have boosted it over 35psi. Trust me its faster. We hope to dyno soon AWD but I promise 1000AWHP is possible with this motor. (Our current setup, I am guessing can produce around 850awhp. :thumbup:


That's amazing, can't wait for complete results. :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Throwing one of these on the Rabbit tomorrow. 



















:thumbup:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Co-Branding win. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Awesome!


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

any pics yet?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

not yet.


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## twoteks (Dec 1, 2005)

When do you guys start making boost with that mammoth turbo?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

boost comes in around 4,000rpm.


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## twoteks (Dec 1, 2005)

You guys said you're running "custom cams"? What is the duration and where did you source them from?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

The cams never came around although we are hoping to finally have some here real soon.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Did you guys switch to a larger throttle body or are you still running stock?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Still running a stock TB.


Sent from my Race Car


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## aquino (Mar 12, 2007)

:thumbup: for Gabe and BWP for their exceptional customer service. Thanks.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

aquino said:


> :thumbup: for Gabe and BWP for their exceptional customer service. Thanks.


agreed!


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

So 2 or 3 weeks ago with the revised and updated setup we strapped the Rabbit back down to the dyno. Unfortunately we were having some issues with what I believe was the head lifting which was causing pressure in the coolant jackets and also causing the coolant to overflow out of the bottle. Also we were not able to take it over 8k rpms because of a terrible tensioner issue on the main drive belt which causes it to kick the belt off. (IE is working on a fix as we speak) However we were able to put down an impressive 811AWHP on an AWD Superflow dyno pushing 28psi. Attached is a link of one of the dyno runs and as soon as I get the graphs I will post them as well. Enjoy. 
This was at a local dyno day. Please ignore the hp numbers that are shown below. He was trying to calculate for a corrected sea level number however it is not accurate.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

arent you running an underdrive belt?


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

thygreyt said:


> arent you running an underdrive belt?


 yes.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

This is awesome Big :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> yes.


 why is it shearing off then? 

i thought that the underdrives were "fixing" the issue... 

because on the stock pulley/belt the issue is pretty bad


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

I apologize when I answered you earlier I was in a rush. Basically we are just running an ECS lightweight crank pulley but everything else is stock. Problem is that the lower tensioner for the AC/Crank belt gets some bad harmonic vibrations while in the higher RPMs and it is not strong enough to hold the tension down so the belts keep skipping off basically


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Pure awesome, how are you going to fix the head lifting? I thought you already had arp studs in there. 

I'm assuming that the belt fix is going to be a stronger tensioner? 

Edit: also, where is your valve cover?


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## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

Drool. 

Makes me want to sell my GTI and build my 2.5L Golf.


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

Beastmode = ON  

That is freakin amazing, great job!


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

very impressive gabe.:beer: 
as for the belt, we had that issue on the road rabbit NA rabbit...we took a mk3 VR6 tensioner pulley the had edges on it. trimmed the mk5 tensioner down a bit and it never came off again. but i'm sure IE can build you one better then stock. thats just what we did quick.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

so, with all issues solved, +9 or 10k rpms, we can expect +1000 AWD HP?  

also, i wanted to ask: what turbo size a/r etc are you using? when does it start to spool and when does it reaches max/full spool?


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> so, with all issues solved, +9 or 10k rpms, we can expect +1000 AWD HP?
> 
> also, i wanted to ask: what turbo size a/r etc are you using? when does it start to spool and when does it reaches max/full spool?


 OT: Congrats on 10K posts!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> so, with all issues solved, +9 or 10k rpms, we can expect +1000 AWD HP?
> 
> also, i wanted to ask: what turbo size a/r etc are you using? when does it start to spool and when does it reaches max/full spool?


 I remember reading on here or on fb that it starts to boost at 4000rpm. They also mentioned the turbo size, but I forget that.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

GTACanuck said:


> OT: Congrats on 10K posts!


 lol hadnt even noticed! i dont post to build the count thou... lol. 



mldouthi said:


> I remember reading on here or on fb that it starts to boost at 4000rpm. They also mentioned the turbo size, but I forget that.


 found it on post 1... 

Precision 6765 Billet turbine Ball Bearing Turbo. 

if you ask me, its pretty dayum impressive!!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> lol hadnt even noticed! i dont post to build the count thou... lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think if you ask anyone they would think it was impressive.... 


well except for all the GTI and GLI guys on the MKV forum haha. I still think its funny that a bunch of them have no restect for a motor that can make this kind of Hp. 

I wonder what kind of numbers it would put down as 2wd only, without the crazy loss from the haldex.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

mldouthi said:


> I think if you ask anyone they would think it was impressive....
> 
> 
> well except for all the GTI and GLI guys on the MKV forum haha. I still think its funny that a bunch of them have no restect for a motor that can make this kind of Hp.


 Those guys are more concerned with "low", led lights, and "high performance air intakes" than anything else


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Those guys are more concerned with "low", led lights, and "high performance air intakes" than anything else


 its funny... the 2.5L tech forums is a LOT more tech and in deph involved than the 2.0T FSI, TSI and the "TSI & FSI" tech forums. 

and most of us are MOSTLY not really involved with the mkv forums.


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## Rodlund (Feb 22, 2011)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Those guys are more concerned with "low", led lights, and "high performance air intakes" than anything else


 Idk the mk6 guys might have em beat being concerned with LED tails


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Rodlund said:


> Idk the mk6 guys might have em beat being concerned with LED tails


:laugh:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Those guys are more concerned with "low", led lights, and "high performance air intakes" than anything else


Yip. 

Gabe, Rabbit looks good :thumbup:


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## akauf (Dec 14, 2009)

looking good! 


gunna need a bigger turbo for 1k hp. 

dude with an evo recenty went from 775whp to 850whp just from switching to the 66mm turbine. turbo totally tapped out in both runs only change was the turbine.


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## brandonwillyumz (May 5, 2011)

Wow. That thing sounds scary... I love my 2.5. Just wish it was a manual :banghead:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> So 2 or 3 weeks ago with the revised and updated setup we strapped the Rabbit back down to the dyno. Unfortunately we were having some issues with what I believe was the head lifting which was causing pressure in the coolant jackets and also causing the coolant to overflow out of the bottle. Also we were not able to take it over 8k rpms because of a terrible tensioner issue on the main drive belt which causes it to kick the belt off. (IE is working on a fix as we speak) *However we were able to put down an impressive 811AWHP on an AWD Superflow dyno pushing 28psi.* Attached is a link of one of the dyno runs and as soon as I get the graphs I will post them as well. Enjoy.
> This was at a local dyno day. Please ignore the hp numbers that are shown below. He was trying to calculate for a corrected sea level number however it is not accurate.


 i just wanted to quote this so that new people can see what a 2.5L can do... with proper software!  

props to gabe and the rest of the BW team.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

does the bw400 kit include a turbo, or is that my choice and preference?

what are the client cars running that you have done?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> does the bw400 kit include a turbo, or is that my choice and preference?
> 
> what are the client cars running that you have done?


yes it does. the best thing is to call before you buy and discuss with the very knowledgeable people at BW what your goals are.

together you will determine the best turbo for your application.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

already know what i want, just wanted to know what it came with. i assume a large journal bearing t3 or something of the sort. if it comes with a ballbearing, that's awesome.

i already know what i want to use to utilize the engines performance and get the gains for the type of powerband desired based on the comp map vs engine,etc.

though it isn't my car, it will be awesome to have a very stealthy 2.5T running around.

especially on pro-maf tune.


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## biggerbigben (Jan 21, 2004)

Any further info on the engine spec other than the 1st page? I.e. what head work, oem crank? 

Awesome car!


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## iowarabbit (Mar 29, 2007)

jesu joy of man's desiring... that thing sounds CRUEL. :what:
i'll be happy with something half as nasty and respectably streetable, but is it seriously nice to see (and hear) what these little bastards can do. even happier to see it built from the same molasses 140ish whp '07 foundation i'm on! *far *above and beyond any 2.slow, and with the reliability of these engines you can score a clean block for the cost of a couple rough nights on the town. i'm dead set on building my gal a terminator heart once she turns 150k, and not one mile more. :heart:


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