# MK4 Standalone... Why does it creep me out so bad?



## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

So I'm looking at tuning options for my AEG Turbo Beetle and I just can't quite decide what to do. Right now the car is running a C2 chip with 440 injectors and I'd like to upgrade a bit. I've been looking at Lugtronic standalone as a serious option. I talked with them a few weeks back and they sound willing to make a plug and play ECU for my car which would only involve me unplugging one ECU and swapping the injectors out for larger ones. 

As much as the PNP setup sounds like the easy and very flexible choice, what's holding me back is the loss of the complexity of the stock EMS. I threw a code a few months back for the fuel pump relay and throwing codes for small faults allows you to easily find problems with your car and correct them before they turn into larger issues. One other option is to swap out the driver side wiring harness for one from a 1.8T. To do this I'd need to swap to a DBC throttle pedal, throttle body, 1.8T ECU and wire in the OEM O2 sensor. I could then run Maestro and get it tuned the same way but it would be way more factory. This kind of scares me too because I totally suck at wiring and I wouldn't even attempt it so it means paying someone who has their act together 

I'd love to go with standalone but I hate the idea of losing the stock ECU. Is this something I should even be concerned with? I know standalone is awesome in stripped-out or older cars where the fuelling and ignition systems have been built from the ground up to be fairly simple, where in this situation the plug and play standalone is going to hijack more complex factory systems and it kind of scares me to be honest. Losing the ability to get codes for electrical faults, etc seems bad. 

Looking for feedback here, any help would be much appreciated.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

You fear the unknown...... most people do 

In your situation I would say the best bet is to do the 1.8T harness. Quintin is using that setup with good results on his MK4 8v.... 
unless..., does Lugtronic's have fault diagnoistics? by far the easiest to install 

I've been using 034 unit on my 8v for ~5yrs with no real big 'fault' code issues... I'm sure people's opinions will also differ from their experiences and ability level with working with things of this nature. Someone who has good experience diagnoising issues won't be so concerned than someone who knows nothing about cars and just likes turn key fun.


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

Not necessarily looking for the easy way out, I'm not afraid to work for this but I do enjoy fault codes because they tell me what the problem is and a quick online search lets me find the problem and fix it if you know what I mean. 

The only problem is that Quintin has a 120 pin ECU / drive by wire MK4 2.0. Mine has the older style ECU with a different connector and DBC so it would be way more work than what he did.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

To use a 1.8T setup would be way more work? What happened to not being afraid to work for it?  
I understand, you want OE fault diagnoistics and I don't think you can get that from any type of standalone... you'll need to stick with OE ecu. I'm sure some SEMs have their own diagnoistics but not going to give you all the faults your OE ecu would. 
Perhaps the only other option is to get Jeff to custom make you a 630cc file.... I'm assuming by 'upgrade' you mean moar powwwaaa!


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## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

I'm running the lugtronic(vems) on my vrt. There is no cel feature on mine but.... 
You won't need it with stand alone, just data log. In a data log session, you will be able to see every sensor, 
what's it's voltages are or whatever it it reading so if any data is out of whack it is easily identified. 
So if you are wondering whether you could indentify a sensor not reading correctly, now it it was a misfire of 
a spark plug, then no, but it would probably show up as a change in afr's that you usually would see.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Misfires are pretty easy to see on a datalog. The only thing you lose with out "codes" is the ability to have to pay for someone to diagnose a problem!


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

radoman57 said:


> I'm running the lugtronic(vems) on my vrt. There is no cel feature on mine but....
> You won't need it with stand alone, just data log. In a data log session, you will be able to see every sensor,
> what's it's voltages are or whatever it it reading so if any data is out of whack it is easily identified.
> So if you are wondering whether you could indentify a sensor not reading correctly, now it it was a misfire of
> a spark plug, then no, but it would probably show up as a change in afr's that you usually would see.


 Yes but you're forgetting about the ability to scan other codes like centeral electric, ABS, Airbags, and Instruments for example. They're not a necessity to make the car run or to trouble shoot the engine, but they're all nice to have.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

SMG8vT said:


> Not necessarily looking for the easy way out, I'm not afraid to work for this but I do enjoy fault codes because they tell me what the problem is and a quick online search lets me find the problem and fix it if you know what I mean.
> 
> The only problem is that Quintin has a 120 pin ECU / drive by wire MK4 2.0. Mine has the older style ECU with a different connector and DBC so it would be way more work than what he did.


 it wouldnt be that bad...the DBW pedal has its own bracket that bolts right to your car...so you need that, the pedal, TB, and OEM wideband o2...not really much work at all. You just pull the other side of the harness as well :beer:


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## radoman57 (Jan 16, 2007)

Jeebus said:


> Yes but you're forgetting about the ability to scan other codes like centeral electric, ABS, Airbags, and Instruments for example. They're not a necessity to make the car run or to trouble shoot the engine, but they're all nice to have.


 I think all those are seperate systems that could still be checked via vag com, the ecu controls the engine 
not the airbags!


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## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

radoman57 said:


> I think all those are seperate systems that could still be checked via vag com, the ecu controls the engine
> not the airbags!


 If you're stock ECU is gone, how do you expect to scan it with VAG COM?


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Your limitations will be based on legallities and pocket book. If you have emmissions testing, then the stock ecu will have to be retained or reinstalled for testing whenever it is due. Since you want to monitor with VCDS or other software, again, you will have to stick to stock, no other ECU will support this, except for possibly the Bosch MS4 Sport Turbo ECU, which is roughly 2600 Euro (http://www.bosch-motorsport.de/content/language2/html/2953.htm) 
If you on a tighter budget and can deal with swapping the ECU for testing if required, the I would use Lugtronic, with a plug and play harness and you are set.


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

or swap everything to a2 body and just get a sniff test


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## XXX008XXX (Mar 26, 2002)

www.lugtronic.com is your answer


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Jeebus said:


> If you're stock ECU is gone, how do you expect to scan it with VAG COM?


 I definitely still could scan my ABS codes with out a stock engine ECU in place.


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## snobum (Dec 16, 2005)

why could you ever be scared of standalone. its the best thing ever.Standalone is what can make your car perform flawless. i dont understand at all on the supra we went standalone on my corvette standalone and with the truck motec all the way. my vw is getting standalone too its by far the best thing for your engine . 




if your really scared just go motec spend the money call john reed up at www.johnreedracing.com and get the best setup ever..


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

Thanks for the reply man! Is your MK4 on standalone? 

Edit: I didn't see all of the other replies until now, I guess I wasn't subscribed somehow. You guys have given me a lot to think about! I think the 1.8T harness swap might be the best thing to do...


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## boost_addict (Dec 4, 2009)

VEMS is great Great.. built in wideband... and lugtronic can make you plug and play harness.. plug it in and tune takes 10 mins to be up and running. swap back to stock ecu for inspection or your scans you will find u do not use anymore hehe 

cant go wrong.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

I would go with the Lugtronic or the haltech. The PNP lugtronic has proven to work well and my personal car I use a haltech sprint platinum 1000 and love it. And Motec is great stuff but its twice the price of the haltech stuff.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

before steering you in either direction, my question would be this..... 

what are you hoping to gain by going to stand alone? (or why do you feel it is needed). 

:beer:


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

I guess the main reason is that the 42# tune for the MK4 2.0 is weak and runs out of fuel ~20psi. I overboosted the car and it survived but I would really like to know that there is enough fuel if that happens again because the bottom end is built to take it. 

I was told by the tuner that the tune maxes around 260-280whp and I always wanted to squeeze 300whp out of the car, I feel it's capable of it. I'm building a head, etc over the winter.


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

hit up http://www.unitedmotorsport.net/ and see if he can wrote you a new tune for your 2.0 car


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

I've run 034 on my 2.0 with a lysholm and now with a gt2871. Only had to do a little bit of tuning instead of having to buy new software every time i want to change the boost or the injectors. I didn't know about lugtronic 4 years ago when I got my 034 or I might have gone with the plug and play system.


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