# Budget VRT. tricks tips and ways to save money



## vrtme (Mar 29, 2009)

Hi. im looking at building a VRT on a budget. I want to aim for 350-400bhp still but i don't want to spend money where its not needed. So far ive worked out i can do my build for £3000 but id like to cut a grand off that.

Has anyone used 2nd hand intercoolers off anything like a saab 9000. or maybe 2 1.8 turbo mk4 golf side mount intercoolers?

Is it ok to buy cheep on the wastegate? instead of buying tial would one of these be up to the job? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-...ptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

same with the bov/ re cirulation vavle 

anyone got any tips of improving the stock front engine mount to be abit stiffer without spending to much money?

Im still going to go with a good mannifold, holset or maybe a lower range Garrett turbo and c2 software

Can anyone think of anywhere else i can cut money off my build.. do i really need an oil cooler? or i really need apr headbolts for 350bhp?

Tom


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

you need stage 1 kinetics KIT! do it right or dont do it at all...


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## Bthornton10 (Apr 27, 2008)

Go to the forced induction classifieds and buy used items. Like a tial wastegate, diverter valve, turbo manifold and much more. You can save a lot of $$$ if you buy most of the turbo things used. Good luck!


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

Bthornton10 said:


> Go to the forced induction classifieds and buy used items. Like a tial wastegate, diverter valve, turbo manifold and much more. You can save a lot of $$$ if you buy most of the turbo things used. Good luck!



just make sure you buy quality used parts...not some ebay junk :thumbup:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

dubbinmk2 said:


> just make sure you buy quality used parts...not some ebay junk :thumbup:


Don't buy ebay junk, but know that there are parts on ebay that can and will work well, especially for 350-400whp which is what the OP is after.

Some tips:

-Use the stock intake manifold(free)
-Use a journal bearing turbo($600-$700)
-ATP "clone" exhaust manifold is ~$100 and not a bad piece especially if you can gasket match it.
-CXracing intercooler and piping(also sold on ebay)~$200 shipped for both. I use them and I trap almost 129mph.
-VHT flameproof primer and paint instead of ceramic coatings.
-siliconeintakes.com for bends and t-bolts

Used good quality parts will save you alot of money. Find a chip/injector/maf housing package deal. I would do the spacer and arp's. You need a walbro inine ~$105. Boost gauge and wideband are a must IMO.

I don't think you absolutely need an oil cooler unless you do track days. Run a good quality synthetic oil.

Good luck. Just know where to be cheap and where not to. Dont put anything on your car that doesn't seem in good condition or something that hasn't been proven on someone elses car first ie. turbo brand, wastegate brand, etc.


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

slc has pointed out some good advice :thumbup:

I like to add on to that with some personal experience....

I'm all about saving on any build i do. It doesn't take away from the overall at the end of the day. People that's been following my build can tell you that i've been grabbing deals anyway i can get it. Example, i bought a complete stage 3 Pro-MAF, 630 file, with a T67, 044, W/B, FMIC and a few other bits for around $4k. It only had 2500 miles on it before i got it. I saved a good $2k right there. I bought a genuine BNIB Seat Motorsport FMIC from my good friends (Mike & Vlad) @ Tyrol for dirt cheap. Miguel (vw G60 T) has given me a great deal on a SRI. Adam (eurosportgti) is gonna be doing the Powdercoating for a spare engine i have.

Another good way to offset some of the budget is selling the stuff you're not using or what you ave lying around. I parted my brand new ABA turbo setup that i had sitting for 5 yrs and some performance stuff from my old 16v. It pretty much paid for a good bit.

I can say that i have about $5k in my turbo setup that is easily worth over 10k.


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## 20V_DUBBIN (Aug 29, 2007)

Buy quality used parts and sell any stock extra parts after the turbo install to offset cost:thumbup:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm about $4k for a reliable ~400whp intercooled setup. All new parts. That's everything from air filter to downpipe that's turbo related. Garrett to4e turbo, atp mani, atp downpipe, oil pan, oil lines, tial 38mm wg, cx racing intercooler and piping, kinetic intake pipe, Bosch diverter valve, all silicone reducers/bends and t-bolts, K&N air filter, $190 custom wastegate recirc of atp dp, walbro 255lph inline and usrt wiring kit, 42lb. inj, C2 9:1 SS spacer, C2 42lb. race file, c2 4" MAF arp headstuds, ptp direct turbo blanket, wideband and gauge, boost gauge, a pillar gauge pod, VHT flameproof paint and primer, DEI heatwrap.

Not included in the $4k:

-obd2 swap
-ecs tuning adj. fpr and gauge
-N2MB/WOT box 2 step
-Apexi avcr ebc
-BFI .5motor mounts
-peloquin lsd
-Clutchnet PP and 6 puck
-Eurosport oil cooler
-Koni coils

Almost another $4k Thank god I did this when I was making money. Can barely afford gas now:facepalm:


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

slcturbo said:


> I'm about $4k for a reliable ~400whp intercooled setup. All new parts. That's everything from air filter to downpipe that's turbo related. Garrett to4e turbo, atp mani, atp downpipe, oil pan, oil lines, tial 38mm wg, cx racing intercooler and piping, kinetic intake pipe, Bosch diverter valve, all silicone reducers/bends and t-bolts, K&N air filter, $190 custom wastegate recirc of atp dp, walbro 255lph inline and usrt wiring kit, 42lb. inj, C2 9:1 SS spacer, C2 42lb. race file, c2 4" MAF arp headstuds, ptp direct turbo blanket, wideband and gauge, boost gauge, a pillar gauge pod, VHT flameproof paint and primer, DEI heatwrap.
> 
> Not included in the $4k:
> 
> ...



i hear ya man from start to fiish with my project in my 86, from swap to paint to turbo install I spent 15k on 1986 eco box POS.... yet i drive my GF honda fit :banghead:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

dubbinmk2 said:


> i hear ya man from start to fiish with my project in my 86, from swap to paint to turbo install I spent 15k on 1986 eco box POS.... yet i drive my GF honda fit :banghead:


Yeah just beware when someone spouts off about they did this or that for $2k all in. People usually don't add up everything or don't have everything they should.


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## LowLife (Jun 30, 2005)

Is this the said cxracing intercooler kit. How was that install? Tons of bending and hacking rebars? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRa...rQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_4564wt_941


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

LowLife said:


> Is this the said cxracing intercooler kit. How was that install? Tons of bending and hacking rebars? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CXRa...rQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_4564wt_941


That's my IC. I bought a different on of their piping kits, but very similar.

Install? I can only speak to my car. Rebar was untouched. I also don't have AC.

Lost:
-Both tow hooks
-Bottom 6 in. of upper rad support
-Delete power steering cooler bar and loop hoses

That's it. It's tight, but it fits and the front bumper skin doesn't really bulge out or anything. You have to think out how and where to run the piping/order silicone bends as needed/cut piping where you need it, but it's not that bad.


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## LowLife (Jun 30, 2005)

Sounds like a good idea to me. Just gotta be a bit creative. Beats paying almost a grand on a kinetic kit, plus it doesn't plumb underneath the car by the oil pan :thumbup: Always thought that was whack:screwy:


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Just my opinion, but I think the 28x7x2.5 IC is good for ~300whp- 350whp max. That's just going by what other manufacturers rate intercoolers with similar surface area. That and when it's warmer out the car doesn't get much faster from 16-20psi so the IC size might be a factor there. I'm likely making more than 350whp with it, but I also run a 93/105 octane mix at the track.

Their 28x9x2.75 is 35% larger and likely what I'm upgrading to. Still might be on the smaller side, but I don't have much room at the front of the Corrado and don't want to cut much if any more. That's their biggest IC without moving up to a 3" thick core.

On ebay motors the 28x7x2.5 is $82 shipped. 28x9x2.75 is $98 shipped.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Buy quality parts or get you a used Kinetics kit. Proven to just work, thats what I have.:thumbup: G/L


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

GinsterMan98 said:


> Buy quality parts or get you a used Kinetics kit. Proven to just work, thats what I have.:thumbup: G/L


 
yes for sure


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

> yes for sure


 Troll:thumbdown:


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Budget VRT :screwy: 

lol just kidding. I don't see why it can't be done for around $2k provided all maintenance is taken care of. I've got alot into mine but it sure beats the hell out of any stage 4+ kinetics kit :thumbup: 

If you hunt deals like a hawk you can make it happen... long night in the classifieds lol


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

dub_slug said:


> Budget VRT :screwy:
> 
> lol just kidding. I don't see why it can't be done for around $2k provided all maintenance is taken care of. I've got alot into mine but it sure beats the hell out of any stage 4+ kinetics kit :thumbup:
> 
> If you hunt deals like a hawk you can make it happen... long night in the classifieds lol


 $2k-possible with almost all used parts, but you aren't doing $2k all in with everything a VRT should have. LSD, wideband, boost gauge, boost controller, intercooled, oil cooleretc. 

Also depends on power level. Stock compression 30# setup is going to be cheaper than a 42# 400whp setup.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

I don't think a "budget vrt" includes a diff...so yes it can be done for around 2k. How much power you'll make is a topic for a different thread or search criteria :thumbup: 
My first vrt was a budget build and I only ran 6psi max. It was a total blast to drive. Boosted vr's are hands down one of the best cars to drive imho


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## LowLife (Jun 30, 2005)

dub_slug said:


> I don't think a "budget vrt" includes a diff...so yes it can be done for around 2k. How much power you'll make is a topic for a different thread or search criteria :thumbup:
> My first vrt was a budget build and I only ran 6psi max. It was a total blast to drive. Boosted vr's are hands down one of the best cars to drive imho


 When we went for a cruise was it only set on 6psi? If so, damn I can't imagine 20....


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

LowLife said:


> When we went for a cruise was it only set on 6psi? If so, damn I can't imagine 20....


 That was a different car; and a completely different setup. 

you don't need all that fancy stuff just to boost around.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

dub_slug said:


> I don't think a "budget vrt" includes a diff...so yes it can be done for around 2k. How much power you'll make is a topic for a different thread or search criteria :thumbup:
> My first vrt was a budget build and I only ran 6psi max. It was a total blast to drive. Boosted vr's are hands down one of the best cars to drive imho


 OP states 350-400bhp so it is part of the thread. Not sure if he meant whp though. Either way, 400bhp is about 350whp so add a spacer, studs, walbro, and Maf housing if it's a chip car. 

I don't think you're doing 350whp for $2k reliably. Anything is possible w/ used parts though. You are taking a chance w/ certain things. Used turbo, spacer, wastegate, walbro? Risky business.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I would never buy a used spacer, I agree thats risky. 

Nothing wrong with a turbo thats used if its in good shape. Tials can be rebuilt, so that solves its problem 

Point I am making is there is nothing wrong with used parts, so long as they are of good quality. Used ebay turbos, wastegate etc is a waste of time imho.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

slcturbo said:


> OP states 350-400bhp so it is part of the thread. Not sure if he meant whp though. Either way, 400bhp is about 350whp so add a spacer, studs, walbro, and Maf housing if it's a chip car.


 My bad, I totally agree. OP picked a power level that's definatly past the budget criteria. What about a non intercooled 440setup with meth? Will that not make 350? If it does, op needs a new clutch...and a diff lol. I suggest you get the power goals down if you want to get it on a tight budget and keep the car together. 

I've made 287hp on 6psi with a stock block and 268's. 350hp should be another 5-6psi away right? Maybe op can Get a big turbo with big cams and make some power on low boost? 

Who's gonna be the first to stack mk3 headgaskets????lol


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Yeah, add clutch to the list too over 300whp so another $300-$400. 

As for used parts, depends on the situation and part IMO. 

Turbo, if it looked newer and the person selling had some credibility? Sure I might buy it for half price. Problem is you can't see if an oil seal is blown. Trying to save a few hundred only to start the car and see white smoke would suck. Like anything, it depends. 

Non intercooled, Meth, stock compression? Not my definition of reliable, but to each his own.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

For a used turbo, I'd shoot for a holset hx40 or a Borg Warner. the methanol injection would come at a cost; added maintenance and $$ for fluids. I would clean the nozzles frequently or have a few on deck to swap em out readily. You could set to spray at 9-10psi and run maybe 12-14? Honestly you have to be a real jack off to be in full boost all the time with a vrt....it's nothing like a close ratio stock turbo'd 1.8t. So I think it could be an ok setup


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## salvage_vrt (Jul 30, 2010)

Get the clutchmaster fx_500
I got the 4 puck and it will definately hold any power you ever put to it! Also budget friendly


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Southbend isnt bad either. I have one in my 020, feels stock, rated for 325lb/ft. Buddy has one in his VRT. 

Awesome clutches for the money imho. 

Whatever you do, dont get a SPEC clutch. Total garbage.


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## salvage_vrt (Jul 30, 2010)

I mobbed the spec stg 3 for a bit in my old mkiv vr...wasn't that bad, but wore fast.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

> SPEC clutch. Total garbage


 I agree.


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