# Eaton M45/5th Injector/Management...



## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

Hi,
I currently have a mk3 8v gti golf.I also have an m45 eaton supercharger and i have picked up some very basic management from South Africa called Mr. Turbo.
The management is meant to be quite simple to map and use although i have never tried anything like this before so i have been doing a fair bit of reseach online to make sure i do everything right..
Here is what i have figured should work so far.. but i would like a few pointers if possible..
To lower the compression i was hoping to run 2 G60 headgaskets but a lot of people say to use a compression plate, now i dont mind paying to have a compression plate knocked up, but is there any real need, what will i gain from using a 3mm spacer compared to stacking gaskets?
Injector wise, rather than cutting into the existing loom and butchering what is already there, i was going to leave it all alone and run the Mr.Turbo as a piggyback system using a cold start injector plumbed into the intake pipework.. I think this should be a simplier option and make it easier to map the car.
With regards the injector, i thought that its best to mount it as far away from the throttle body as possible to get the best mix of fuel and air but then my issue is with running a BOV/Dump valve.. if the dump valve is after the injector but before the TB, do i run the risk of running lean when shutting the throttle,i know this might sound stupid as its for a split second etc.. but i just want to make sure i think through as many of the issues as possible..
I only want to run low boost to start with and was going to use a rising rate fpr.. is there any real benefit to running a rising rate or should i stick to a preset pressure i.e 3-4 bar..
I hope you can offer some advice on this.. and if you have any experience on anything that i might have forgotten please speak out.. im all ears..
Cheers from the rather wet UK,
Dicky


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

just reading the FAQ and came across this..

_Quote »_Is a blow-off valve necessary with a supercharger?
Blow-off valves are not very commonly used in superchargers. Superchargers create lower boost or p.s.i. than a turbo can. In a belt driven supercharger a b.o.v. becomes a luxury, more than a necessity. If boost is low (5-8 p.s.i.), there is no need for one in a SC setup. They ARE beneficial on turbo systems due to better turbo life and better acceleration without lag.
Regular superchargers can run about 14 p.s.i. maximum with upgraded pulleys. Superchargers are chain or belt driven by the engine, and soon as the engine rpms drop, so does the boost (because the supercharger isn't creating boost at lower rpms). So using a blow-off valve isn't really necessary but can be used to ensure that it isn't running too high of boost. It just depends on what boost the supercharger is capable of producing and what boost won't blow your engine.
You could add a blow off valve to a supercharged engine as it will reduce the amount of horsepower consumed by the supercharger when the throttle is closed (at idle). But this is overkill you really don't need one since power comes from the crank not the exhaust. An oil cooler would be a better investment.

my main concern for running a bov/dv was not the issue of turbo stall.. but that of protecting the throttle body from the stress of boost pressure snapping it shut constantly.. any suggestions?? i only wanna run 8-10 psi max!!!


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

If i do piggyback im going to have to keep the original maf and also run the map sensor thats in the piggyback system. Is the maf best mounted in its usual location or should i mount it before the SC, by this i mean in between the SC inlet and the airfilter.
5.I have already got a facet redtop racing fuel pump to replace the standard item if need be but i want to know what sort of power people are running off the standard item.
I hope that some of you guys can answer one or two of my many mad questions.. 
p4c


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## Joey Russo (Apr 9, 2007)

*Re: (ac_morris)*

bump for help...


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (Joey Russo)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to trying something new.....but I have to ask, why not just go with FI software for your stock ECU?

C2


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## kompressorgolf (Dec 6, 2005)

8V'S with eatons are fun as all hell! lots of torque! my mk3 would break free in third gear in the dry!


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

_Quote »_ to trying something new.....but I have to ask, why not just go with FI software for your stock ECU?

simply because in the uk i dont know of anyone who makes a replacement chip that will have a suitable map without having to put it on a rolling road...
the other issue is that i was told the maf can only handle 2-3 psi max!!!


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## matchew (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: (ac_morris)*

Is that an AGG code engine?


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

i think mine is the later 2E lump mate...


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: Eaton M45/5th Injector/Management... (ac_morris)*

It's basically an additional injector controller, i've used one before, Haltech F5, pretty much adds fuel based on rpm and Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP)
It works but you would have no control over spark. I've seen over 500+whp with a semilar setup with fixed ignition map but on a drag rabbit that went high 9's in the 1/4 mile, daily driven ( C-16 only)


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

Thats how i am thinking of running the management i have picked up mate.. it has a map sensor built in to it so i think i will run the 5th injector setup first and then look into a full standalone at a later date


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

thats the wiring diagram for the management.. i think it looks quite simple to wire up... lets hope so anyways!!!


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

Just been on a few south african forums trying to get a bit more information on this system but a lot of people dont seem to set it up themselves but put it into a tuner instead which is a shame!!
I stripped down the loom today and looked at routing it in the car.. it looks real easy.. the only thing i need to get now are...
A Wideband o2 sensor n gauge
2 HG's
A Cold Start injector
Some Silicon hosing
And im in the game


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

some people have been saying that you cant run the management as a 5th injector but i cant see why not, ive been reading "engine management" by dave walker about batch firing and per engine rcycle you have 2 rotations of the crank... on each rotation the injectors fire once.. such that a single point injection engine injects half the fuel on the first rotation and half on the second... if it works on a n SPI lump then why wont it work on the system i want to set up... also.. with regards leaning out the chambers due to not getting equal coverage of fuel across the 4 chambers.. then how does an SPI engine work??


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## NeonGreenbangbang (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: (ac_morris)*

Based on my experience running a 5th injector on an injector driver board meant for 4 will likely burn out the injector driver section of the ECM. I've had to "Re-create" many dead 1227747 ecm's that were used to drive more injectors than they should. There's more to that than just running a couple wires and calling it a day.


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

no mate.. Im doing the opposite...
Im running the standard ecu with the maf and 4 injectors then using the mr.turbo to drive 1 injector which will control my fuelling for the S/C 
make sense??


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## NeonGreenbangbang (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: (ac_morris)*

Okay, that's my mistake then, I'm sorry for the confusion.


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

dont worry about it mate, i suppose i didnt explain myself very well.. im getting so much mixed information on this that i dont know if it will work but What the hell.. lets try it hey!!!


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: (ac_morris)*


_Quote »_Normally with a N/a vehicle, when you go into boost, the timing increases all the way up to rpm limiter.
With a Forced induction vehicle, the timing is retarded when it starts boosting to prevent detonating or pre igniting.
Now if your Std Engine management thinks your car is N/a, how can you expect to boost it and get the timing right?
You are going to have to go full stand alone engine management dude.

how do people deal with this.. fixing their timing etc...


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

*Re: (EL DRIFTO)*

we run at 95 octane in the uk anyways mate...
colder plugs and thermostat will help... thats a good thing.. i was looking into new plugs anyways


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## matchew (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: (ac_morris)*

95 octane in the UK isnt the same as 95 octane in the USA
UK will be 95 RON
US will be (RON+MON)/2


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## ac_morris (Sep 6, 2006)

This still doesnt help me out lol...
if i want to run this eaton on my car and control the fuel only with the management.. can i let the standard ecu control the timing.. it has a built in knock sensor as standard...
Cheers Dicky


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