# No more manual Audis after 2015



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

I stopped by to have my 15k service done at my local dealer and got to chatting my salesmen as I usually do.

He has just returned from Colorado to an AoA even demo-ing the S3 and Q3. Showed me video of him driving a red US spec S3 through mile-high stadium parking lot set up similar to an AutoX course. Looked very quick without all the noticeable body roll as compared to my driving video of an S-line 2.0T A3 months ago.

Of course, he had nothing bu great things to say about the S3. However, he informed me there will be no SS seats in the USA for the foreseeable future; not even as an add on for new orders this year as of whatever week has been quoted around these forums. So we shall see if that's truly the case.

Also confirmed that the Q3 we are getting is the old PQ35 chassis, with the very dated looking interior. Though he is confident they will have no problem selling thousands of them considering the sales of the dinosaur Q7 the past few years. People will be lining up to buy a "real" Audi SUV for under $30k. The race to the bottom of the market continues.

Of course, I always ask for scuttlebutt on the upcoming B9 models, and was told that according to all the AoA personnel at this event, Audi will not offer a manual on any single model after this update. That means no more A4 S4 S5 and A5 manual models.

Looks like I bought my first and last new Audi! The A3 s-tronic only decision was only a prelude of things to come. Ill be hopping over to BMW for sure if this truly is the case (provided BMW does not also go to the dark side before 2020).


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> However, he informed me there will be no SS seats in the USA for the foreseeable future; not even as an add on for new orders this year as of whatever week has been quoted around these forums.


Don't believe it. They're still on track for week two SOP last I heard.


----------



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

So is that an assumption on AoA's part that they will be awarded north american certification for those seats by that date?

If federalization was really the issue, then it would appear to be entirely out of their hands, unless certification authorities tell them they already passed testing and are just awaiting the actual certification to arrive by a promised date.

Since this is US federal certification, I wonder if this information is published somewhere, both the application and testing (whatever it entails).


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

ChrisFu said:


> *So is that an assumption on AoA's part that they will be awarded north american certification* for those seats by that date?
> 
> If federalization was really the issue, then it would appear to be entirely out of their hands, *unless certification authorities tell them they already passed testing* and are just awaiting the actual certification to arrive by a promised date.
> 
> Since this is US federal certification, I wonder if this information is published somewhere, both the application and testing (whatever it entails).


The conversation didn't go into that much detail, but I suspect it's a little bit of all of that. I was able to read between the lines and establish that they had gone through the process at least once prior and thus knew exactly what needed to happen to satisfy all the requirements.

I couldn't immediately find anything on NHTSA's website. I was hoping there would be something like what the FCC reports for mobile phone tests and certifications. If it's there, I couldn't find it- at least not in enough detail to give us what we're looking for.


----------



## T1no (Sep 22, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> Don't believe it. They're still on track for week two SOP last I heard.


whats SOP ?


----------



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

T1no said:


> whats SOP ?


Start of Production


----------



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

The B9 will be offered with a manual transmission in Europe, but things are looking not-so-good for us Yanks when it comes to the MT6 configuration and it comes down purely to a marketing angle. Per my conversations with several product planners over the past year they've routinely used the phrase, "the manual transmission is not in keeping with our image as a technological leader." In other words, say goodbye to the MT6.

There's always a chance that market forces will push Audi to continue to offer the manual, but I'm not really holding out much hope for that. Even across the pond Audi has been reducing the number of models offered with the manual transmission: the A3, as an example, is only available in DSG if you want Quattro and a gasoline engine. 



ChrisFu said:


> Of course, I always ask for scuttlebutt on the upcoming B9 models, and was told that according to all the AoA personnel at this event, Audi will not offer a manual on any single model after this update. That means no more A4 S4 S5 and A5 manual models.
> 
> Looks like I bought my first and last new Audi! The A3 s-tronic only decision was only a prelude of things to come. Ill be hopping over to BMW for sure if this truly is the case (provided BMW does not also go to the dark side before 2020).


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> "The manual transmission is not in keeping with our image as a technological leader."


Powerful statement. Says it all.


----------



## T1no (Sep 22, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> Start of Production


ohh that early heh ?
ss seats ? me want


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

T1no said:


> ohh that early heh ?
> ss seats ? me want


Yes, the current forecast is to be able to begin production during week two. That would put the first cars here in early February, more than likely. I was surprised to hear that it's not week 45 (the 0.5MY changeover, technically) as that's generally when such changes occur (or week 22, the full MY changeover). The fact that they're doing it outside of a routine changeover leads me to believe they aren't jacking around.

If I hear anything else, I'll provide an update. Week two was relayed to me about three weeks ago and was very current intel at that time.

I'm hopeful that we'll be able to order sometime in November. I have no solid reason to believe that will be the case; just my guess based on observed timelines.


----------



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> "the manual transmission is not in keeping with our image as a technological leader.".


Not that bull**** again. 

They _could _offer the 6MT as a zero-dollar downgrade, hell even a CTO-only option like in Oz, and therefore protect their precious margin they would be counting on with a future all-s-tronic lineup.

How they spin straight up option elimination can as "market differentiation" is beyond asinine. 

Would anyone really say to themselves "Audi _offers _manual transmissions? I am now less interested in the brand because the car I want *can *be purchased with a 6MT". Ludicrous. 

Argue the federalization-cost excuse crap if they want, offer CAFE ratings as a reason. Anything else. But if they honestly came to this conclusion that they are somehow "above" even _offering _a manual....well I want nothing to do with a company that trumpets its roots to motorsports and enthusiasts.


----------



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Not disagreeing with you, Chris, but Merc did away with their manuals a number of years ago and haven't been hurting in North America in the slightest.



ChrisFu said:


> Not that bull**** again.
> 
> They _could _offer the 6MT as a zero-dollar downgrade, hell even a CTO-only option like in Oz, and therefore protect their precious margin they would be counting on with a future all-s-tronic lineup.
> 
> ...


----------



## nahf14 (Jul 22, 2004)

Travis Grundke said:


> Not disagreeing with you, Chris, but Merc did away with their manuals a number of years ago and haven't been hurting in North America in the slightest.



Maybe, but only people who care about status and not driving buy a Merc. Not producing manuals might not hurt Audi overall, but I think it will definitely slow down the goal of becoming the largest auto maker as purists that would have bought another Audi move on to other brands that still offer manuals.


----------



## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

Not to put a crimp in anyone's hopes but a long conversation with my BMW dealer indicated they were headed out of the manual market as well come 2016. Infiniti and Mercedes are out, Audi, BMW and Acura are all saying they are getting out, who is left? That's why I finally accepted my fate and am taking the s-tronic plunge. I figure if I can't stand it I still have time to get the last BMW stick which I'll hold onto till the wheels fall off. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

If the B9 S5 isn't available in manual, looks like my choices are down to Cayman GTS and C7 Corvette.


----------



## m3cosmos (Apr 28, 2011)

Not offering manual will push me back towards BMW. I'm sure that decision would only help BMW. Porsche did the same thing with their GT3 which results high resale on 997 GT3 models. I don't really want a 991GT3 because of auto thus waiting on the GT4 manual. If not available I'll look somewhere else for a real drivers car. The only way to support manual is to buy manual cars.


----------



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Xanlith said:


> Not to put a crimp in anyone's hopes but a long conversation with my BMW dealer indicated they were headed out of the manual market as well come 2016.


I would find that very surprising, since they made it a point to ensure the new M4 would still offer a stick, in addition to the recent "Jalopnik" edition 320i


----------



## lostnspace (Jul 6, 2014)

This SS discussion gets nervous every single time. :facepalm: I really hope the seats get the required certifications. 

My salesman says they will be getting their S3 on the lot in two weeks so that people can start test driving it. He doesn't seem to think that it will SS though.

Who do I need to lobby to make this happen?!!!


----------



## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

lostnspace said:


> This SS discussion gets nervous every single time. :facepalm: I really hope the seats get the required certifications.
> 
> My salesman says they will be getting their S3 on the lot in two weeks so that people can start test driving it. He doesn't seem to think that it will SS though.
> 
> Who do I need to lobby to make this happen?!!!


The appropriate person has read and is probably reading the forums. I know with absolute certainty that they have seen the SS sport seat thread we have here.

There's nothing we can do at this point but trust that what he knew as of three weeks ago isn't changing.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

My sales guy said the M4 and M5 are to be the last of the sticks and that everything else is on the way out which effectively eliminates the BMW sticks for many people since the M4 and M5 are out of range for most people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## SCHWAB0 (Dec 6, 2004)

what a load of garbage ... time to vote with my wallet ... no stick, no sale. If all of the EU car makers opt out of manuals then most of us are going to opt out of them. I get the trend, but if there's a demand, someone should use their head and provide a choice. I feel like this is the twillight zone :laugh:


----------



## charliemike (Jul 22, 2001)

SCHWAB0 said:


> what a load of garbage ... time to vote with my wallet ... no stick, no sale. If all of the EU car makers opt out of manuals then most of us are going to opt out of them. I get the trend, but if there's a demand, someone should use their head and provide a choice. I feel like this is the twillight zone :laugh:


My thought is that as more VWAG cars are built in the U.S. and Mexico and not shipped from Europe, it saves them a lot of money to build cars with only one transmission. It saves them money during manufacturing, in crash testing, in CAFE (in theory) ... They may be willing to concede the single-digit manual transmission purchases (in terms of total VW/Audi sales) for the money they save building just DSG cars.


----------



## mike3141 (Feb 16, 1999)

SCHWAB0 said:


> what a load of garbage ... time to vote with my wallet ... no stick, no sale. If all of the EU car makers opt out of manuals then most of us are going to opt out of them. I get the trend, but if there's a demand, someone should use their head and provide a choice. I feel like this is the twillight zone :laugh:


Unfortunately there isn't enough of a demand to affect their bottom line one way or another.


----------



## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

mike3141 said:


> Unfortunately there isn't enough of a demand to affect their bottom line one way or another.


Nail on the head.


----------



## ZPayne (Jan 8, 2014)

The brand new S1 is only available with a 6MT. No dsg is offered so clearly audi doesnt view the manual transmission as against their brand image in europe anyway

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Xanlith said:


> My sales guy said the M4 and M5 are to be the last of the sticks and that everything else is on the way out which effectively eliminates the BMW sticks for many people since the M4 and M5 are out of range for most people.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Take this with a grain of salt. Every new generation of Ms comes with the knucklehead salespeople warning that it will be 'the last of its kind'.

Audi dropping manual transmissions I can see. BMW - not so much.....yet.


----------



## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

SCHWAB0 said:


> what a load of garbage ... time to vote with my wallet ... no stick, no sale. If all of the EU car makers opt out of manuals then most of us are going to opt out of them. I get the trend, but if there's a demand, someone should use their head and provide a choice. I feel like this is the twillight zone :laugh:





mike3141 said:


> Unfortunately there isn't enough of a demand to affect their bottom line one way or another.


X2. If they get rid of the manual, some of these people will buy the automatic, then figure out how many sales it really costs Audi, the profit on these sales, and compare it to what it costs to have the manual. From a financial only calculation I don't think it would be very difficult to make a decision.


----------



## Dandre056 (May 29, 2008)

Glad I bought a manual 2015 S4 before it was too late. :laugh:


----------



## spa2k (Aug 12, 2005)

Audi already has said the next generation of A4, S4, A5, S5, etc. will have manuals. :thumbup: It's the generation after that when there will be no more manuals. :thumbdown:


----------



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

spa2k said:


> Audi already has said the next generation of A4, S4, A5, S5, etc. will have manuals. :thumbup: It's the generation after that when there will be no more manuals. :thumbdown:


Got a link to that info? I havent seen anything stating positive on any new platform manuals. I was told the B9's will not. 

If thats not the case, I will be surprised.


----------



## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

ChrisFu said:


> Got a link to that info? I havent seen anything stating positive on any new platform manuals. I was told the B9's will not.
> 
> If thats not the case, I will be surprised.


The issue isn't whether Audi AG will build those models with the manual transmission, the question is whether Audi of America will import them.


----------



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> The issue isn't whether Audi AG will build those models with the manual transmission, the question is whether Audi of America will import them.


Well if they build them and I cant buy them, they might a well not exist in my book.


----------



## spa2k (Aug 12, 2005)

ChrisFu said:


> Got a link to that info? I havent seen anything stating positive on any new platform manuals. I was told the B9's will not.
> 
> If thats not the case, I will be surprised.


I believe it was a quote from Barry Hoch, who is an Audi product planning manager. Sorry, I didn't keep it after it crossed my desk, because it wasn't something that affected the decision-making process about my next car. As I recall, part of what he said was that European buyers couldn't care less about manual transmissions, but American buyers would throw Audi out of the country if manuals weren't available here.

As a side note, the June issue of Audi Driver magazine includes a test of a 6M S3. Grrrrrrrr... :banghead:


----------



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

spa2k said:


> I believe it was a quote from Barry Hoch, who is an Audi product planning manager. Sorry, I didn't keep it after it crossed my desk, because it wasn't something that affected the decision-making process about my next car. As I recall, part of what he said was that European buyers couldn't care less about manual transmissions, but American buyers would throw Audi out of the country if manuals weren't available here.
> 
> As a side note, the June issue of Audi Driver magazine includes a test of a 6M S3. Grrrrrrrr... :banghead:


Ah, this was from about 3 years ago when the B8.5s came out, and they dropped the manual option on S4/S5 in Europe on the facelift cars. 

http://forums.fourtitude.com/entry....t-Facelifted-S4-and-S5-Range.-US-Retains-Them

I think he was referring to them not dropping the manual on the B8.5 S4/S5 in the USA, which they did not.

I think the B9 is an entirely different story.


----------



## spa2k (Aug 12, 2005)

ChrisFu said:


> Ah, this was from about 3 years ago when the B8.5s came out, and they dropped the manual option on S4/S5 in Europe on the facelift cars.
> 
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/entry....t-Facelifted-S4-and-S5-Range.-US-Retains-Them
> 
> ...


It also may have been a quote from a few years ago, but I'm referring to something that came through a week ago. Part of it was that the 2016 vehicles still would have manuals available in the U.S. because they were designed with both transmissions in mind. For the following generation, Audi said no manuals because they were "low-tech" - but I'm betting the real reason is upcoming fuel economy standards.

There's a lesson here - never throw away anything that has official information - or a direct quote from a factory executive.  Otherwise, you're just expressing "opinions." I guess we'll know for sure soon.


----------



## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

The plot thickens!

Also, the manual fuel economy versus DSG is usually within 1-2mpg, even manuals exceeding quite a few counterparts particularly diesels. Just look at the VW models that offer both.

I am not sure where the idea came from that DSGs are _always_ better on fuel than traditional manuals, but I see it everywhere in auto journalism.


----------

