# TTS or other MQB model by VW Group?



## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

Hello,

I am looking to make a transition from 10+ years of BMW ownership. I love the new direction of VW Group and have a few questions for the professionals on this forum. 

- Is the TTS really worth the premium over the Golf R and S3 (same engine and platform)
- What more do I get out of the Audi TT when I compare to the Golf R and S3?
- I don't tend to keep cars for long (2-3 years), would the TT maintain a strong resale value?

I am leaning towards the TT, but am afraid of the extra cost associated with the car. Here in Canada the Golf R costs $45k, the S3 is $55k and the TT is $70k. This seems like a large premium. Just need some advice if it is worth it.


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

It's a very personal thing, it all depends on your priorities, needs, and criteria in choosing a new car.
For me I am not even considering the A3/S3 as I do not want a sedan.
I would not consider a Golf as I would not own a VW (personal choice), and I find the Golf rather ugly and has a cheap interior.

edit: I should have noted as well that on the UK boards where people have been able to drive the TTS and the S3 sedan, they say the TTS is a significantly better drive.
They seem to find the S3 rather boring.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

e46jb said:


> Hello,
> 
> I am looking to make a transition from 10+ years of BMW ownership. I love the new direction of VW Group and have a few questions for the professionals on this forum.
> 
> ...


The Golf R will hold a larger percentage of its value for resale. Golf Rs have always commanded very strong resales. I got $30,000 for my MK6 and it only cost $36,000 new, 21 months after buying it. 

You'll be hard pressed to find that kind of percentage on either Audi.

That being said, the Audis are more quality cars.. but I'd advise you to check out the Golf R before making a decision. They're much improved over the MK6.

My opinion: If I could afford the TTS, I'd get the TTS. The only reason I didn't order one instead of my S5 was because a manual transmission is a necessity for me.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

Can_quattro said:


> It's a very personal thing, it all depends on your priorities, needs, and criteria in choosing a new car.
> For me I am not even considering the A3/S3 as I do not want a sedan.
> I would not consider a Golf as I would not own a VW (personal choice), and I find the Golf rather ugly and has a cheap interior.
> 
> ...



Thank you for the details. It looks as if I should consider a test drive. But where I am located, there is a pre-owned 2015 TTS and a few S3's...not a Golf R yet

I am not worried about the additional cost, but if I can get equal or better performance and save a few $$$'s why would I not at least give that some consideration.


PS - I have had many BMW's. How does the Audi compare for driving performance and feel? Everyone seems to say the BMW handles better and has more personality, is that really true on a daily driver? I am not one to drive the car to 8/10's, just want something fun around town.


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## Optical TDI (Dec 18, 2001)

I test drove an S3 and a 2015 Mk2 TTS back to back. I know you are looking at MQB, but even the Mk2 TTS is much for fun IMO. The S3 was not exciting enough for what I was looking for. Too refined. So I ended up with a 2013 TTS. No regrets, love it. So maybe the MQB TTS will be better. Hopefully it's not too refined. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

Not a direct apples to apples comparison.. 

After having owned a TTS and a MK6 GTI... the driving dynamics are completely different. Discounting any difference in acceleration or even drive configuration. A golf.. no matter how much power it makes, or whether it has AWD of FWD... is still a golf. They are amazing value for the utility. But a hot hatch is not a sports car (or even a sports coupe, in this case). Neither the S3 for that matter. 


Deciding what kind of car you want _*first*_ can make the whole thing a lot easier. Acceleration/HP/Top speed != driving dynamics. Considering the price is a confusion as well. If you want a sports car, or are placing driving dynamics at the top of the heap of priority.. then the cost is irrelevant. Because at nearly any price you can find something with outstanding driving dynamics. Changing it to an AWD platform would not have helped the fun factor, because giving it more power, more grip, and two more drive wheels... will _not_ change the cars original purpose of being a somewhat economical hatchback. same for S3. 

The cars were just not designed to do the same thing. Back to the initial question of "worth it" well.. that is entirely subjective. Just depends on how high a degree of importance you place on driving dynamics. If you just want an AWD car that is kinda sporty and kinda fun and can be modded potentially.. then one of the more compromised cars (R/S3) will do. If you choose to place a higher importance on driving dynamics then there really is no question of the two cars _which are not sports cars_. 

To me it would be worth it, assuming I had the cash. Taking nothing away from S3 or Golf R. I want a sports car. Not a hot hatch/sedan.



e46jb said:


> Everyone seems to say the BMW handles better and has more personality, is that really true on a daily driver?


By everyone.. I suppose you mean people who own BMW cars currently or have owned them in the past?  I have never owned a BMW. But I would have likely gotten a 1M if the prices were not still way over MSRP. I did drive a 335i (when I was in the market for a sports coupe before settling on my previous TTS)... I did not like the 335i at all. It felt stiff and heavy. I nixed the 335i off the list and decided on TTS based on driving a base model 3.2 TT. It was that much better. I wanted something that felt more light and playful. The 335i definitely let me know without a doubt that I was driving a car that also had a sedan version. I have driven several other BMW and didnt like the feel. But that is just subjective input.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

If the magazine reviews are anything to go by the GolfR is the better driver's car. The TTS reviews state it's better than the mk2 in terms of feel and engagement but that it doesn't quite capture the same feel as the mk7 GolfR which apparently punches way above it's weight and is significantly better than the mk6.

As to your question of what does the extra $$$ get you. Well the TT uses a large amount of aluminum in it's construction which is where a lot of the cost differential is. This makes it lighter and stiffer and in theory a better platform than a steel unibody. You also get much more tech in the TT with the new virtual cockpit vs an analog cluster in the GolfR. And of course a 2-door coupe body style always commands a premium even across the same model (see M3 vs M4 pricing).

Really the TT only loses out to the Golf in practicality if you need to carry people. Since the TT is a hatchback it ends up being able to carry far more cargo than you'd expect.

Hard to say on depreciation. The TT has not sold very well lately which isn't going to help. The mk3 might revitalize the market but it's tough to say at this point. I don't think looks alone are going to drive sales as it really is very similar to the outgoing mk2.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

Great feedback. I am narrowing down my choices to an M235i, the TTS or a used Cayman S.

So much greatness, so difficult to make a decision


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

Go drive each and see what you think? They are just different cars with same drivetrain. If you need room, R. If you want more style, TTS. I've had both and although I got people saying my 08 R32 was a nice car once in a while, I get compliments on the TTS every where I go....."nice car"..."I like your car"....etc....almost every time I go somewhere in the car. I keep my car extremely clean which also attracts attention too. What are you needs? Do you carry more than one other person? Then the TTS is out....that back seat is useless. I call it my nice, leather covered storage shelf.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Fined said:


> Not a direct apples to apples comparison..
> 
> After having owned a TTS and a MK6 GTI... the driving dynamics are completely different. Discounting any difference in acceleration or even drive configuration. A golf.. no matter how much power it makes, or whether it has AWD of FWD... is still a golf. They are amazing value for the utility. But a hot hatch is not a sports car (or even a sports coupe, in this case). Neither the S3 for that matter.
> 
> ...


I suppose there are limitations in driving "feel," but as someone who owned a Golf R (MK6) I can tell you that the car does in fact punch above its weight and is very capable of performing with much higher and more expensive sports cars with very little modifications. My car was running Michelin PSSs, street-rated springs and stock brakes and yet was still putting down sub 2'20" lap times at VIR, which is within the realm of your average amateur's time in a Z06, 911, GT-R or M3/M4. Yes, all of those have much higher performance ceilings, but for your average driver the Golf R is far capable enough to get you in trouble.

The only downside I ever found with the R was in high-speed slalom-style corners (esses, etc.) at 100-120+ MPH where the car felt slightly top heavy compared to a true sports car. This is a prime example of where a TTS would excel far past the Golf R, since they are based on the same chassis, yet the TTS has a much more aerodynamic form and a lower center-of-gravity. Coming out of low speed corners or even low speed esses, the AWD grip on either car is mind-blowing.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

I really appreciate the feedback. It is hard to make a switch away from BMW, especially after 10 years and many different models.

My only real experience with VW Group cars was a 2000 VW Jetta VR6 which was made in Mexico. I had many issues with that car, and to make matters worse, the 2year/40,000km warranty was pathetic.

I know Audi is a better car, more quality to the finishes and the timeframe between these purchases is a lifetime (15 years) in auto industry speak. I guess the next steps are to wait for available cars to drive and see what makes me smile the most.


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

e46jb said:


> I really appreciate the feedback. It is hard to make a switch away from BMW, especially after 10 years and many different models.
> 
> My only real experience with VW Group cars was a 2000 VW Jetta VR6 which was made in Mexico. I had many issues with that car, and to make matters worse, the 2year/40,000km warranty was pathetic.
> 
> I know Audi is a better car, more quality to the finishes and the timeframe between these purchases is a lifetime (15 years) in auto industry speak. I guess the next steps are to wait for available cars to drive and see what makes me smile the most.



Something very important to me is that Audi's quality and reliability numbers are improving while BMW's are stagnant at best.
Also they still have not joined Camvap:

http://www.camvap.ca/


"All of the major domestic and international manufacturers participate with the exception of BMW and its subsidiary Mini, Mitsubishi and some of the smaller high value vehicle manufacturers such as Maserati, Ferrari, TVR and Lotus."


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

Thank you Can_quattro

I was not aware of that website and appreciate you bringing that to light. Also, you are located in Alberta, so am I...just curious about the experience you have had with our dealers? In Calgary, the BMW dealers often receive poor comments on sales and service surveys; would Audi be better for overall satisfaction?

Are there any common complaints or niggles that I should expect moving to Audi from BMW? Is the MMI system user friendly?


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Here's a video of Mike Skeen running a 2'18" at VIR in a stock MK7 Golf R.

With big brakes, good tires and a Stage 1 tune this car might punch sub 2'10's.

I ran a 2'17" with my MK6 at Stage 2+ with better tires and some mild suspension mods.


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

e46jb said:


> Thank you Can_quattro
> 
> I was not aware of that website and appreciate you bringing that to light. Also, you are located in Alberta, so am I...just curious about the experience you have had with our dealers? In Calgary, the BMW dealers often receive poor comments on sales and service surveys; would Audi be better for overall satisfaction?
> 
> Are there any common complaints or niggles that I should expect moving to Audi from BMW? Is the MMI system user friendly?



PM Sent

Audi's MMI is very good, one of the best of it's type.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2458029,00.asp


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

e46jb said:


> Great feedback. I am narrowing down my choices to an M235i, the TTS or a used Cayman S


This shootout between sports coupes makes more sense, since they are all in the same segment. 

M235i is receiving some really excellent reviews. Would like to try driving one. Cayman S... well what can really be said. Also getting great reviews. 

Out of the three.. there is only winning! 

Maybe getting a chance to drive them all back to back will help, not sure if that is possible.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

Thank you for the PM....I appreciate the candid response.

After driving an M235 - I see the softening of the BMW brand and am not sure it has the same feel as my Z4 or my '09 335. I am also having difficulty finding a Cayman, but since my dealer won't receive any of the new TTS models until October.

I HAVE LOTS OF TIME.

Since the TTS is creeping ahead in almost all categories, color is also a consideration. I have always bought black cars, but the TTS is exclusive in yellow, Ibis white is a classic for Audi.


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

Colour is going to a tough one for me as well.
Still waiting to find out if Canada will get the Express Red leather that everyone else gets.
There is conflicting information, I have a question in to Audi Canada for what it's worth.
If there is no express red interior, I would go for the Tango Red exterior.
If we get the Express Red, I would lean towards a white exterior.
The Sepang Blue is very nice, but I have had blue for six years.
Vegas Yellow is sharp, but I am not that brave.

I also find the standard TTS wheels too dark for my personal tastes.
There are seven wheel options when you configure a TTS on Audi.de, but only one when you configure it on Audi.ca.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

I have a copy of an order guide which indicates Express Red is available for a Canadian car. I think that would be my #1 choice, but white or black paint is the difficult decision.

If they offer Daytona Grey, I would like that!


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

e46jb said:


> I have a copy of an order guide which indicates Express Red is available for a Canadian car. I think that would be my #1 choice, but white or black paint is the difficult decision.
> 
> If they offer Daytona Grey, I would like that!


Could you post or PM that order guide.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

Can_quattro said:


> Could you post or PM that order guide.



Just dropped the order guide quickly into Photobucket. Please advise if you need a better quality.


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

Thanks e46jb.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

Well there goes my plans to move into a new car this year. Gotta love the economy of Calgary - lay-off notice received.

I guess this is a good thing, gives me the opportunity to test drive and develop a plan to buy something which I really want.


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## Can_quattro (May 31, 2014)

e46jb said:


> Well there goes my plans to move into a new car this year. Gotta love the economy of Calgary - lay-off notice received.
> 
> I guess this is a good thing, gives me the opportunity to test drive and develop a plan to buy something which I really want.


Sorry to hear that e46jb, things are so unpredictable right now.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

No comparison with the rest IMHO.


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## e46jb (Jun 25, 2011)

R5T said:


> No comparison with the rest IMHO.



Great angle and a the looks of the 3rd gen are a big improvement, although subtle


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