# V8 Phaeton DIY Oil Change (38 Pictures)



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

*Hi Everyone,

There have been a few Phaeton oil change instructions on the Internet already, Kudos to the original writers of those instructions, but all of them I have seen so far used an Oil Extractor, I am kind of old schooled and I sort of remember someone on the forum mentioned that in ElsaWin it mentioned the V8 engine should not use oil suction method, so that is why I am writing this one up.

DIY changing oil for a V8 Phaeton is easy but also hard, it is easy because you don’t even need a Jack, the hard part is to get to the oil filter.

Tools you will need:
----------------------------
24mm or 15/16” socket
3/8” or 2/8” hexagon bit
1/2” Drive Torque wrench
Big Pliers
Socket Wrench and two 3” short extension bar
Screw driver with T25, T27 Torx bits
Long philips screw driver
Oil catching Pan
7.5L of Castrol EDGE w/SPT 5W-40 Synthetic Oil
Hengst Oil filter (E355H01 D109)*



















*1.	Start the car and let it run for a few minutes to warm up the oil so it can flow more easily, and in the meantime, use the air suspension to raise the car to the high level*



















*2.	The height of the car is just enough for you to get under the car to take off the underpan with T25 and T26 torx bits, and the oil pan will expose:*



















*3.	Remove the oil filler cap, and use the 3/8” hexagon bit to unscrew the oil pan drain plug and drain the used oil *





































*4.	Replace the drain plug crush washer with a new one and screw it back onto the oil pan once all the old oil is drained, use a torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 30 Nm*



















*5.	Pop the hood and use a long philips screw driver to undo 4 screws and remove the airbox, you need to use the pliers to undo the clamp to the air hose as well,also remember to unclip 2 presstuds of the silver heat shield from the airbox*





































*6.	Use the torx bit screw driver to undo two screws and remove the air intake duct, it is plastic and bendy*



















*7.	Now you should be able to see and access the oil filter cap. The Hexagon nut on my oil filter cap has been rounded off due to the carelessness of the previous guy who changed the oil, I had a hard time removing it, I tried a long extension bar first, but the problem is the space is too limited, but the extension bar is too long, so the socket and nut can not be completely aligned, and will only strip the nut even more. Later, I found two short 3” extension bar connect together work the best, but the cap was so tight from the previous oil change, I still couldn’t get it off, at last, with the help from a friend, we made a long extension bar to the wrench handle and with one guy takes the wrench handle, and the other guy holds the alignment of the socket, we succefully removed the damaged oil filter cap without an incident*














































*8.	Now you can remove the old oil filter and replace it with a new one (Hengst E355H01 D109)*














































*9.	I replaced the old damaged oil filter cap with a new one, also replaced the large O ring on the oil filter cap as I am not sure how much trouble it will give me next time if I continue to reuse it, I ordered the new one from VW, and it cost $117, such an expensive plastic cap!*




























*10.	Installing the new oil filter in tight space requires a bit of trick, but it can be done. Make sure the plastic flanges are facing upwards and the flat surface goes into the housing first*



















*11.	Once the filter is in, I put the new oil filter cap back on and use the torque wrench to carefully torque the cap to 25 Nm.*



















*12.	Now pour in the new oil, it must meet VW502.00 spec, I used Castrol EDGE w/SPT 5W-40, the Phaeton holds 7.5 Liters of oil, but I actually only be able to add in about 7 Liters*



















*13.	Now put everthing back together in reverse order (air filter, air box, air duct and the heat shield, underpan). Then start the engine and let it run for a few minutes and check for leaks, and check oil level one more time, then you are done! The engine with the new oil runs so smoothly, I can literally stand a coin on top of the intake manifold and the coin won’t fall.*










*14.	Now if you need to reset the service indicator, please follow below instructions:

Resetting Service Now Message with Vag-Com:
[Select]
[17 - Instruments]
[Adaptation - 10]
Channel (02)
The channel should have the current value of 1 (The Service Now message has appeared)
set 0 as it's new value.
[Test]
[Save]
Done. 
Resetting Service Now Message Manually:
1. Ensure the ignition is switched off.
2. Hold down the trip button.
3. Switch the ignition on and release the trip button.
4. A message appears in the DIP with the wording SERVICE RESET .
5. Press the OK button on the steering wheel.
6. The message will now disappear.
7. To check the procedure has worked correctly. Switch the ignition off, switch the ignition back on again. The service message should have disappeared.


Hope this helps!

Tomas*


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

tomasty said:


> *
> 4.	Replace the drain plug crush washer with a new one and screw it back onto the oil pan once all the old oil is drained, use a torque wrench to torque the drain plug to 30 Nm
> 
> 
> ...


Hi Tomas,

This doesn't look like a crush washer... (or rather : the crush washers I already used didn't look like this one). The crush washers I used were copper o-rings that would actually crush when torqued.

The non-crush washers I used had a plastic insert in them to keep them tight, but this one doesn't seem to have a plastic/rubber insert. It looks like a plain washer...

Are you sure it is a crush washer ?

P.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Crush washers can be made of copper, aluminium or any other slightly soft metal. Since that washer's job is to seal the sump plug, I'm guessing that it's most likely a crush washer.

Harry


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Looks just like the one on my 944.


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

Prince Ludwig said:


> Crush washers can be made of copper, aluminium or any other slightly soft metal. Since that washer's job is to seal the sump plug, I'm guessing that it's most likely a crush washer.
> 
> Harry


Just like Harry said, this is a crush washer made of aluminum, the crush washer I ordered from Vw for my golf is the same aluminum one as well, just a bit smaller. My Mercedes uses copper washer

Tomas


----------



## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

Great write up, thanks. Maybe you could send your old filter cap to Gruven Parts so they can make an aluminium one instead?

Graham


----------



## Bedlam (Aug 10, 2012)

That plastic cap is offensive. In part because it's plastic in the first place, but also the price.

Great write-up and perfect photography, thank you!!!


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

Thanks guys, I have sent an email to Gruven Parts and ask them if they are interested in making an Aluminium version of the cap, will keep you guys posted. 

But I am a little bit skeptical on if they can keep the price within $100 mark for the aluminium part. 

Tomas


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

Guys, good news, below is the email reply from GruvenParts 

*Tomas yes we are working on that cap already, you can follow the project 
on our facebook page 

http://www.facebook.com/GruvenParts 

We are also working on these for the VR6 motors as well, same problem and 
yes, the dealer price is out of line for such a cheap plastic part, I 
agree! 

Take care and stay tuned! 

Paul 
www.GruvenParts.com 
404-556-6663*


----------



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi, 
I have just noticed a couple of things that resemble the M119 engine of my Mercedes 1992 500E. These are:
- The odd location of the engine oil filter, although on the 500E the air filter housing is not on the way.
- The fuel pressure regulator and the fuel lines. The look almost identical.
Now a quick question for Tomas:
How good is the oil pan heater that your car feature? When I use the parking heater the oil and coolant temperature reach about 50-60ºC, so how is it like with the oil pan heater?.
By the way, how are you getting on with the gearbox issue?
Cheers.

Gabriel


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi,
> I have just noticed a couple of things that resemble the M119 engine of my Mercedes 1992 500E. These are:
> - The odd location of the engine oil filter, although on the 500E the air filter housing is not on the way.
> - The fuel pressure regulator and the fuel lines. The look almost identical.
> ...


 Hi Gabriel 

That is interesting to know, I wish they could design the location of the oil filter to a more ergonomic location. 

I don't know the exact temperture my oil pan heater can reach, but I do notice the difference it make on cold start in winter time, as I am in canada, we can have -35 easily in winter. 

As to my transmission, I consider it a condition more than a real problem now, I just took my phaeton for a 3500 km round trip and it treated me well. The issue is only temperture related and I have read so many problem with this type of zf box, not only from phaeton but also from BMW forum, so I think it is just a design issue with this box. I will live with it for now 

Thanks 

Tomas


----------



## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

*Careful With That Cap!*

Whoever reads this thread, just another reminder to be careful with that oil filter cap. If it is too tight, and the nut is rounded off, be careful that you don't damage the housing getting it out. If the housing is damaged and needs replacing, the engine and transmission have to be removed to get it done. It happened to me, cost was VERY expensive. 

And yes, $100 for a crummy designed, easily damaged plastic cap is ridiculous. I've been talking with Gruven for some time to see if they can design a metal replacement. Let them know you are interested if you want one!


----------



## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

*Size of the Oil Drain Plug/Crush Washer*

I'm getting ready to do an oil change on my V8 P. and wonder if anyone knows the size of the drain plug. The crush washer that came with my filter is much too small to be the correct one and I need to find one that fits. I'd hate to drain the oil, take the plug to the parts store and then discover that they don't have the right size.

Cheers,
Steven


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

StevenFT said:


> I'm getting ready to do an oil change on my V8 P. and wonder if anyone knows the size of the drain plug. The crush washer that came with my filter is much too small to be the correct one and I need to find one that fits. I'd hate to drain the oil, take the plug to the parts store and then discover that they don't have the right size.
> 
> Cheers,
> Steven


M24x1.5

Aaron


----------



## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

Thanks, Aaron.

I just ordered a bunch of washers from Industrial Parts House.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

Sure.

On a related note, has anyone tried a Fumoto drain plug valve?

http://www.qwikvalve.com/fumoto-fg-8-valve-p-16163.html

Seems like a bad idea since our plugs are straight down from the bottom of the pan, instead of sticking off the side. I need to take a better look underneath next time and see if the pan is the lowest hanging member. If the surrounding subframe is lower, then maybe clearance won't be a huge issue, as long as you're not off roading. Sure would make oil changes less messy. I plan on putting one of these on my truck for sure.


----------



## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

I put Fumoto valves on my Ranger and my wife's Santa Fe the last time I did an oil change. They seem to be well made and very difficult to open inadvertently. There have been no leaks so far. I got the ones with the nipple that allows you to attach tubing to the valve so I can run the oil right into my waste container.

I was going to order one for the Phaeton as well but didn't know what size nor how much clearance there would be between the bottom of the pan and the plastic underbelly. With the next oil change, perhaps...


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

StevenFT said:


> I put Fumoto valves on my Ranger and my wife's Santa Fe the last time I did an oil change. They seem to be well made and very difficult to open inadvertently. There have been no leaks so far. I got the ones with the nipple that allows you to attach tubing to the valve so I can run the oil right into my waste container.
> 
> I was going to order one for the Phaeton as well but didn't know what size nor how much clearance there would be between the bottom of the pan and the plastic underbelly. With the next oil change, perhaps...


I believe the one we need is the one in the link above. I have a buddy who put one in his ranger, and uses one on his bike, swears by them. I'm more worried about clearance if you were ta catch it on something, like a step in the pavement, or going over a steep change in grade. Theoretically, since the plug is located only just in front of the front axel, the chances should be pretty slim, but things do happen. And can you image the damage done to the oil pan if you caught it on something?


----------



## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

IwasHuman said:


> Theoretically, since the plug is located only just in front of the front axel, the chances should be pretty slim, but things do happen. And can you image the damage done to the oil pan if you caught it on something?


I've learned the hard way not to rule out what seems highly improbable. If I were the only one to drive the Phaeton, I'd definitely go for it. I'm extremely careful with driveways, parking stops, and changes of grade since owning the S60R. Plus, I'd like to do some oil analysis at various mileages. 

Since I share the car with my wife, the improbable is certainly possible. If only there were a way to link the suspension setting to the key. I would link my wife's key to the "highest" setting. "Dear, why does it always say 'Raising Vehicle' when I start up the car?"

Cheers,
Steve


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I have the second key set up to adjust the seat, adjust the mirrors, tune the radio to the station with the most tedious music and greatest number of advertising breaks, raise the car, increase the parking warning volume, adjust the steering angle away from kerbs, disable the individual a/c vent controls, and adjust the petrol gauge to read 50% lower.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> I have the second key set up to adjust the seat, adjust the mirrors, tune the radio to the station with the most tedious music and greatest number of advertising breaks, raise the car, increase the parking warning volume, adjust the steering angle away from kerbs, disable the individual a/c vent controls, and adjust the petrol gauge to read 50% lower.


Hahahah, is there a how-to instructional in the TOC for that process?


----------



## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Did my first oil change on my V8 today and ran into a small problem. When I unscrewed and carefully removed the oil filter cap a lot of oil come out and dripped down to the ground. Some of the oil got onto the alternator before it hit the floor. My understanding was that the oil from the oil filter housing drains down to the pan once the cap is loosened!? I also noticed that the plunger device that goes into the center of the oil filter was loose. Is that normal?

I cleaned the alternator and everything else around it very thoroughly. I checked an nothing seems to have gotten into the alternator but wanted to see if I need to do anything else before I start up the engine. 

Btw, installed the Gruvenparts Billet oil filter cap, looks really good and fits nicely.


----------



## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Did my first oil change on my V8 today and ran into a small problem. When I unscrewed and carefully removed the oil filter cap a lot of oil come out and dripped down to the ground. Some of the oil got onto the alternator before it hit the floor. My understanding was that the oil from the oil filter housing drains down to the pan once the cap is loosened!? I also noticed that the plunger device that goes into the center of the oil filter was loose. Is that normal?
> 
> I cleaned the alternator and everything else around it very thoroughly. I checked an nothing seems to have gotten into the alternator but wanted to see if I need to do anything else before I start up the engine.
> 
> Btw, installed the Gruvenparts Billet oil filter cap, looks really good and fits nicely.


I changed my V8's oil 2 weeks ago and didn't notice any oil of significance being lost- not enough to drip on the floor, so you could have an issue of some sort. Did you break the cap loose and let it start the drain process or did you quickly remove it? That could have made a difference, maybe.

I can't think of anything you'll be able to do concerning oil in the alternator due to lack of accessibility. Spraying a cleaner in it would be about all I can think of and that could potentially bring on its own set of problems.

The plunger part you speak of was loose on mine also so I'd say that's not a problem.

I've also got the Gruvenparts cap and its indeed a nice upgrade.

If it were me with what you've accomplished cleaning it, I'd start it up and be on my way.

That's just my opinion,
Cantrell


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Did my first oil change on my V8 today and ran into a small problem. When I unscrewed and carefully removed the oil filter cap a lot of oil come out and dripped down to the ground. Some of the oil got onto the alternator before it hit the floor. My understanding was that the oil from the oil filter housing drains down to the pan once the cap is loosened!? I also noticed that the plunger device that goes into the center of the oil filter was loose. Is that normal?
> 
> I cleaned the alternator and everything else around it very thoroughly. I checked an nothing seems to have gotten into the alternator but wanted to see if I need to do anything else before I start up the engine.
> 
> Btw, installed the Gruvenparts Billet oil filter cap, looks really good and fits nicely.


The center "plunger" piece will be loose, and even come out. This is normal. It will be held in place by the tight fitment off everything else once the cap is tightened.

As Cantrell mentioned, removing the cap too quickly will be messy. My E39 was extremely bad about making a mess. What I do is start the drain from the pan, pull the dipstick (you create a vacuum leak this way, and then slowly back the filter cap off. You want to get it just far enough so that the seal ring is exposed. You should be able to feel it in the resistance. Then just let it sit for about 5-10 minutes after all the oil has drained. Use this time to clean other things under the hood or do a fluid check. 

I had no problems the last time I changed the oil on my P using this method. 

And I'd say your alternator is probably fine.

Aaron


----------



## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

IwasHuman said:


> As Cantrell mentioned, removing the cap too quickly will be messy. My E39 was extremely bad about making a mess. What I do is start the drain from the pan, pull the dipstick (you create a vacuum leak this way, and then slowly back the filter cap off. You want to get it just far enough so that the seal ring is exposed. You should be able to feel it in the resistance. Then just let it sit for about 5-10 minutes after all the oil has drained. Use this time to clean other things under the hood or do a fluid check.


I broke the cap loose but probably didn't unseat it far enough to let the oil drain out I guess. I probably had it like that for 15 minutes while I drained the oil out of the pan (with the oil filler cap off). I cleaned everything around the alternator this morning and nothing got inside so after installing new spark plugs I fired it up and it runs well. Good to know for next time.

Thanks for the replies guys!


----------



## GruvenParts.com (Jul 31, 2007)

That is a great write up! Your pictures make me feel like im standing right there, what sort of camera is that? And, can you please take some similar pictures of the suspension leveling system arms on the bottom of the struts - the plastic links that always seem to break ? Ive heard so much about them, but never a picture. We can make those NOT BREAK as well 


Here is a link to the billet filter housing cap. 



* Billet VW/Audi 4.2L V8 Oil Filter Housings ! *

* Special Pricing in Effect ! Precision Machined Aluminum Oil Filter Housings For VW And Audi 4.2L V8 Engines !*

GruvenParts.com now has these billet aluminum oil filter housing covers for VW and Audi 4.2L V8 to replace OEM part number 077-115-433B (077115433B). The OEM plastic oil filter housing cover is not very durable and often strips out making it impossible to remove the oil filter. The engine flange which this cover screws into costs over $1,000 and is easily broken while trying to remove a stripped filter housing cover. We have put an end to this nonsense !


----------



## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

That is a great write up! Your pictures make me feel like im standing right there, what sort of camera is that? And, can you please take some similar pictures of the suspension leveling system arms on the bottom of the struts - the plastic links that always seem to break ? Ive heard so much about them, but never a picture. We can make those NOT BREAK as well 


I've apparently missed something. What is it?

Cantrell


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

Cantrellc123 said:


> That is a great write up! Your pictures make me feel like im standing right there, what sort of camera is that? And, can you please take some similar pictures of the suspension leveling system arms on the bottom of the struts - the plastic links that always seem to break ? Ive heard so much about them, but never a picture. We can make those NOT BREAK as well
> 
> 
> I've apparently missed something. What is it?
> ...


Thanks, it is a Sony Alpha 350.

I think you are refering to the suspension level sensor? I can't take anymore picture right away as I just changed oil this fall, but I do believe I have seen photos of that sensor on this forum, try a search on leven sensor and see what you can find. I don't recall seeing a lot of report of failure of that sensor?

Thanks

Tomas


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Tomas, what brand is that torque wrench?


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

invisiblewave said:


> Tomas, what brand is that torque wrench?


Mastercraft Maximum


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's a nice looking piece of kit!


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

tomasty said:


> V8 engine should not use oil suction method


What's the verdict on that statement?


----------



## tomasty (May 24, 2011)

Bindaham said:


> What's the verdict on that statement?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5796743-Oil-Change-Using-a-fluid-evacuator


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Hi Tomas,

Many thanks for the terrific write up and amazing pics. 

Regards,

Salah


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Any one knows what's the difference between Castrol Edge and Castrol Synthetic?

Regards,

Salah


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Anyone (Josh!) know if the oil plug seal is the same size on the V8 & W12?


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

They're not.

W12 is *M14X1,5X22* while V8 is *M24X1,5*


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Thanks Salah,


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Pleasure


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Very frustrated. Just tried to change oil & filter but the filter cap was not cooperating at all 

Will try again in few days


----------



## [email protected] (May 1, 2013)

Bindaham,

I ordered one of the Gruven Oil Canister Covers, and finished pulling off a very VERY tough cartridge cover (so tough, the dealership literally gave up and told me "they couldn't get it"; won't be using them again).

If you get the Gruven Cap, and you can sacrifice the stuck cap, after trying a dozen different approaches, I succeeded with a plumbers basin wrench. This worked like a charm. Mind you, my plastic cap had been butchered by the dealership as well as a local Euro mechanic, and I had the Gruven canister ready to replace it.

I have to say, the Gruven Cap was the same price as the VW part, plus or minus a couple of bucks, and is very well made. Fit perfectly, and had solid engagement with my socket. Happy with this purchase!


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Many thanks, that's what I'll do indeed.


----------



## barrier12 (Feb 1, 2009)

*Oil drain valves.*

http://www.fumotousa.com/

They have oil drain valves for both V8 and V12.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

The problem with those valves is going to be clearance. Since our drain plugs are not n the bottom of the pan, they stick straight down. Imagine the kind of damage you'd cause the if you hung that up on the edge of a pothole or the crest of a driveway. Maybe it's not that bad, but in my head I imagine things could go really wrong with one of those. 

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## barrier12 (Feb 1, 2009)

I agree, there is always a chance of something like this happening.


----------



## chris86 (Jul 7, 2014)

Bindaham said:


> Any one knows what's the difference between Castrol Edge and Castrol Synthetic?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Salah


Not sure if you ever got an answer but here is a list of oils and there VW raiting. Hope it helps

http://www.my-gti.com/2528/volkswagen-oil-standard-502-00-505-00-505-01-approved-oils

Chris


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Just finished my first Phaeton oil change, thought I may as well do it myself now it's out of warranty. I used the Blauparts kit which included synthetic 5W40 to the correct spec, Mahle filter, filter seal and drain plug crush washer. It also included another small ordinary washer, but I have no idea what that was for.

Job wasn't difficult, but was a pain in the ass, the most time-consuming bit being the undertray. I did it with the front of the car over the edge of the descending driveway for a bit more clearance and the suspension raised. It's a lot easier to get the undertray back in place if you have two people. I had the Gruven aluminium filter cap already fitted, and was very glad of it. It took a lot more torque to shift than I expected (the dealer did it last time....) and had it been the plastic cap I fear the outcome might have been catastrophic. The filter itself is pretty easy to get in and out, although quite a bit of oil came with it, you have to maneuver it horizontally towards the front of the engine to get it out of the small space.

Correct hex size for the drain plug is 10mm, filter cap is 24mm.


----------



## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

I'd also like to know what that little metal washer is intended for as one is included with tho oil filter from VW.

Cantrell


----------



## chillson (Sep 6, 2010)

I think the small metal washer is for the drain plug.

Jay


----------



## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

chillson said:


> I think the small metal washer is for the drain plug.
> 
> Jay


I'll check that on my next oil change.

Not saying I'm correct in doing this but I've yet to replace the drain plug washer on either P nor any other vehicle I've ever owned. I'm fairly sure I'm over 200 oil changes in my life and I've yet to have a leaking drain plug.

Cantrell


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

chillson said:


> I think the small metal washer is for the drain plug.
> 
> Jay


No, that's the crush washer, the one I'm talking about is much smaller, maybe 10mm across. I looked carefully as I removed the filter to see if there was one in there somewhere, but there wasn't.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

I've seen that extra washer as well. I've actually gotten filters before that had only the smaller washer, can't recall if it was a Mann or a Mahle filter. If I don't get the new washer, then I don't worry about changing it, never had a leak. But if it's included, and I have it apart, why not change it.

I saw someone a couple posts up asked about the difference in Castrol oils, quite a while ago, but still. I did some research on oils for our cars, well, the V8 at least. Personally, I don't like Castrol. The stuff that VW used when the Phaeton released is not like anything they offer today, the formula I mean. It's similar, but not exactly the same. I believe it was Castrol Edge Professional, and now it's Castrol Edge with Syntec or something? I don't know, it was almost two years ago when I dug into it. I also remember reading on an oil forum, probably bobistheoilguy, that Castrol has changed its formula without re-branding. There was proof of this with MDS's from different years for the same oil. Most of it was mineral makeup, but still. It kind of ticks me off that VW designed the engine with use of that oil in mind, I mean I have to believe they put some kind of thought into it, and then Castrol changes their makeup. But that might just be me, and maybe I'm making too much out of oil.

I prefer to run Mobil 1 0W40. Mobil is very good about keeping their oil specs consistent. Plus, the 0W40 has a healthy dose of Moly. Sure it might give me pre-mature cat converter failure, but it's much better for the engine itself. And the 0W works great for my climate and driving rituals. When I was running the Castrol, which was only one oil change in to ownership, the oil temp gauge would only get to about 140-160' at the end of my 15 minute drive to work, and that was in summer. If you know anything about oil, it's that there's a temperature that it has to reach before it hits that ideal viscosity, which is arguably a number around 13-13.5, and it needs to be somewhere closer to 210' F. A 0W oil will start out more viscous than a 5W oil, and it will warm up quicker. Once switching over, I was able to hit 200' on my way to work, with about 3-4 minutes left in my drive. And, maybe it's just coincidence, but I saw an improvement in fuel economy averages by about 1-2mpg. 

Honestly, I'm not trying to sway anyone into switching over, but my point is to do your homework, get the right oil for your car in your conditions. But DO make sure it meets the 502.00 spec for our car.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

IwasHuman said:


> I've seen that extra washer as well. I've actually gotten filters before that had only the smaller washer, can't recall if it was a Mann or a Mahle filter. If I don't get the new washer, then I don't worry about changing it, never had a leak. But if it's included, and I have it apart, why not change it..


Where does it go? There was no washer on the old filter, and no apparent place for it to go on the new one.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

IwasHuman said:


> I prefer to run Mobil 1 0W40. Mobil is very good about keeping their oil specs consistent.


While I was researching my oil change, I came across information about Mobil 1 that was identical to what you posted about Castrol, and it said plain Mobil 1 has changed and is no longer a proper synthetic. I don't know for sure that the information is sound, but the web page was pretty convincing, and in the end I went with the Blauparts oil which meets the 502.00 spec.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> While I was researching my oil change, I came across information about Mobil 1 that was identical to what you posted about Castrol, and it said plain Mobil 1 has changed and is no longer a proper synthetic. I don't know for sure that the information is sound, but the web page was pretty convincing, and in the end I went with the Blauparts oil which meets the 502.00 spec.


Okay, right I did a little digging and remember seeing that too. They didn't actually change their formula, at least not in the last couple decades, but they did change their classifications. To be a true synthetic, you have to be Group IV or V oil. Most oils that we see on the shelf do not fit in these groups. It's mainly Redline, maybe couple others. Mobil 1 had to change their label since they're technically Group III, which uses a base oil or something, with additives to make it behave like a synthetic. Probably the reason Castrol uses "with Syntec" for their so-called synthetic oils. Nothing wrong with it though, from what I've read these oils that act as synthetics do just as well as true synthetics. 

What I mean by a change in formula though, is the actual additives makeup. Things like zinc, molybednum, phosphorus, the minerals. As far as I know, both Castrol and Mobil have just about always been Group III oils.

Do you know what oil is in the Blauparts kit? Is it Castrol? You're spot on, anything 502.00 will fit the bill and should meet the requirements set by VW when they developed that engine.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> Where does it go? There was no washer on the old filter, and no apparent place for it to go on the new one.


In the trash bin, or wherever you keep misc washers in your garage. It's just an extra, possibly for a drain plug on another car that uses that same filter? Seems kinda small, but who knows.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Blauparts use Ravenol, which I've never seen in the shops.

From the reading I did, it seems that the group III synthetics use chemistry to simulate a true synthetic, but that those chemicals break down over time and end up as sludge. I'm not sure which group the Ravenol is, the 502.00 spec was good enough for me, coupled with the price. They sent two 5 litre bottles, plus the filter & washers for $93 including shipping. I have to say that the Castrol Syntec (put in by the dealer) that came out didn't look good, but visual inspection of an oil that's been in an engine for nearly 10k is probably not a very good measure of how it has performed.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> Blauparts use Ravenol, which I've never seen in the shops.
> 
> From the reading I did, it seems that the group III synthetics use chemistry to simulate a true synthetic, but that those chemicals break down over time and end up as sludge. I'm not sure which group the Ravenol is, the 502.00 spec was good enough for me, coupled with the price. They sent two 5 litre bottles, plus the filter & washers for $93 including shipping. I have to say that the Castrol Syntec (put in by the dealer) that came out didn't look good, but visual inspection of an oil that's been in an engine for nearly 10k is probably not a very good measure of how it has performed.


Exactly what you said about the chemistry, and yes, they do break down. But, the rate at which they break down varies a bit. If you really want a true measure, get a used oil analysis done by someplace like Blackstone Labs. I get them done on both my cars, they cost somewhere around $35 I believe. Here's a copy of the last one I had done. Unfortunately, the last couple oil changes have been botched somewhat. The run following this analysis was tainted by the dealer adding 1/2 a quart of Castrol when I had it in for service, so it wouldn't have been a good analysis. The one after, well the dealer had to drop my pan, and I just forgot to leave them with a sample container to take it. But, it also was only at about 4k miles or so. I do know that when I pulled the oil out for this sample, it wasn't fully black, and not sludgy at all. I also know that the inside of the engine looks pretty clean, at least in the heads. But then again, this thing was on 5k oil changes it's entire life up to me owning it. Right now I'm approaching 7500 miles, and will be sending in a sample.

Here's my last UOA.

BL UOA 8-12-13 by aaronreynolds0, on Flickr


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The top end of my engine was also very clean at about 75k when the chain tensioner was changed. I suspect we're stressing over nothing when it comes to engine oil, I can't recall a single instance of any failure being reported on the forum due to internal engine wear. I expect some other major component (transmission, etc) to give out long before my engine does.


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> The top end of my engine was also very clean at about 75k when the chain tensioner was changed. I suspect we're stressing over nothing when it comes to engine oil, I can't recall a single instance of any failure being reported on the forum due to internal engine wear. I expect some other major component (transmission, etc) to give out long before my engine does.


Oh no doubt. Transmission will be the first thing to go, but there's already enough discussion about the ATF, which is why we're probably here discussing oil.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

For all the reading I've done over the years about viscosity, it still confuses me. Maybe someone can explain it? Here's my understanding: Take 5W40, for example. 5 is less viscous (thinner?), 40 is more viscous (thicker?). So, the colder the oil, the thinner it is, the hotter the oil, the thicker it is. When cold, the oil circulates more quickly than it would if it was SAE40, when hot, the oil pressure will be higher than if it was just SAE5. The problem with having an oil that is always thin (eg, SAE5), is that when the engine is at temperature, the oil pressure and the protective qualities of the oil are less than if the oil was more viscous (thicker). Assuming all that is correct (feel free to tell me it isn't!), I don't understand why people seem to prefer an oil that is different in the second viscosity value depending on the season. For cold starts, presumably a 10W would be better than a 5W during the winter because the temperature is lower, therefore making the oil less viscous when cold. But why would a 10W30 be better than a 10W40 in the winter? Surely the engine operating temperature doesn't fluctuate much depending on the ambient temperature??


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

You got it sort of backwards. So the higher the viscosity rating, not strictly the number on the oil but it's actual rating, the thicker it is, correct. you want it somewhat thinner so that it reaches all the components with ease, but not so thin that it can't build up enough pressure to travel through all the channels in the casting. The sweet spot for viscosity is typically around 12.5~13.5, as long as you can maintain a good pressure. The key is viscosity at a given temp. So for M1 0W40, the viscosity at 40deg C (typical cold start temp) is 75, while at 100deg C (typical running temp) is 13.5. Now if you look at Castrol Edge with Syntec 5W40, which is what my dealer had listed for the correct oil, the viscosity at these temps is 82.6 and 13.9, respectively. Not a huge difference, but whats more important is that the more viscous the oil at cold, the quicker the oil will heat up. So if you're running in a lot of traffic in 100+ deg F weather, probably a good idea to use a higher viscosity oil. I don't really see why it would be beneficial to have an oil that's thicker on startup though. For me, there's no other way to go than a 0Wxx oil. Maybe there's a case for thicker cold start oil. 

To get the "perfect" oil weight, what I would do is use the actual oil pressure readings for your particular driving. There's an ideal idle oil pressure, no idea what exactly it is, but probably close to 40-45psi. The general of thumb is it should increase by a factor of the RPM. So if at 1000rpm it's 40psi, then at 2000rpm it will be 80psi, and at 4000rpm it will be 160psi, and so on. So the best thing to do is make sure you have adequate pressure, and use that oil. But, we don't have an oil pressure gauge in our pod, and I can't find a readout using VCDS, sooo for now I just believe that my ending viscosity of 13.5 is close enough or maybe slightly better than the 13.9 that the recommended Castrol hits. One day, maybe I'll install a T-valve in the oil line, and hookup a pressure gauge.

Here's the MSDS for the 0W40 I'm talking about.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lubes/PDS/GLXXENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.aspx


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok, so as the oil gets hot, it gets thinner? And the second number on a 5W40 oil is a temperature, not a viscosity?


----------



## IwasHuman (Jun 30, 2012)

invisiblewave said:


> Ok, so as the oil gets hot, it gets thinner? And the second number on a 5W40 oil is a temperature, not a viscosity?


Yes, as it gets hotter it gets thinner. The number doesn't relate directly to the temp, but somehow it's like a factor of how thin it gets as it reaches a certain temp. so a 40 weight will not get as thin as a 30 weight at 100deg C. Similarly, a 5W will not be as thin as a 0W then it gets to 40deg C. It's all pretty complex, I still can't wrap my head around it all, and once I get it, I forget it without putting it to practical use. 

Check out bobistheoilguy, he has a bunch of good info, as well as a great forum for discussing these things. He's put together a few pages that make an attempt at explaining these things.


----------



## cbh123 (Aug 25, 2013)

I think this belongs in the TOC next to the W12 one.

Would a mod kindly move it? 

Feel free to delete this post too....


----------



## maccd87 (Dec 20, 2015)

I just wanted to share some details after I had performed the oil change on my 2006 V8. 

1. I couldn't get the splash shield and access the drain plug without raising the vehicle more than the air-suspension. I drove it up onto some service ramps. 

2. I had to completely remove the airbox in order to remove the oil filter housing cap, and oil filter. To do this, I had to remove the coil pack connectors and pull them down and around the head. The airbox sits on two studs, I pulled straight up until it popped loose, then I rotated the box towards the head and lifted out. It JUST barely cleared. (NOTE: In ElsaWin this is part of the procedure)

3. To prevent rounding of the oil filter housing nut, I used a flexible joint on the socket (closest to the filter) this ensures that the socket is fully seated and allows you to remove and torque to spec properly.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I've done an oil change on the ground once without either of those problems. I was able to refit the engine cover with the suspension in high, and I got the filter out quite easily without fully removing the airbox, I got it loose and moved it out of the way. The last one I did was on a lift and it did make the cover removal and replacement a lot easier though. Also, you don't need to remove the coil packs to get the airbox completely out, I've done the passenger side on at least 3 occasions without removing the coil packs. There's a position you can work it into towards the front where it comes out. I'd recommend the Gruven oil cap, too, it removes the fear of rounding or breaking the plastic.


----------



## maccd87 (Dec 20, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> I've done an oil change on the ground once without either of those problems. I was able to refit the engine cover with the suspension in high, and I got the filter out quite easily without fully removing the airbox, I got it loose and moved it out of the way. The last one I did was on a lift and it did make the cover removal and replacement a lot easier though. Also, you don't need to remove the coil packs to get the airbox completely out, I've done the passenger side on at least 3 occasions without removing the coil packs. There's a position you can work it into towards the front where it comes out. I'd recommend the Gruven oil cap, too, it removes the fear of rounding or breaking the plastic.


You must be far better at finding just the right angle, flexing the right parts. For a first timer (as it was for me) I'd recommend some basic ramps and removing the airbox to give you plenty of space to work.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The reason I know the oil cap & filter can be removed without first removing the airbox is because last time I did it I spent about 10 minutes trying to get the airbox out and then realized I didn't need to. Sometimes it takes me 30 seconds, other times it takes forever to manipulate it just right.


----------



## s2kvondeutschland (Mar 19, 2011)

My trick is to just push the extension into the lower airbox to get the proper angle. It's plastic and gives quite easily. 

I need new lower airboxes and new insulation blankets. Years of neglectful dealer oil change guys have stripped the screw holes and broken the snaps. I have it all secured, but not as it came from the factory. 

Another trick is to remove the filter like you would a dog doo. Hand in a bag, then wrap the bag around the filter as you remove it. This way everything stays clean. 

I also use a suction gun to pull the remaining oil from the filter housing. There's usually a good deal left in mine after removing the filter. 

Sent from my Chroma Nexus 6


----------



## nhdoc (Jun 18, 2010)

invisiblewave said:


> I've done an oil change on the ground once without either of those problems. I was able to refit the engine cover with the suspension in high, and I got the filter out quite easily without fully removing the airbox, I got it loose and moved it out of the way. The last one I did was on a lift and it did make the cover removal and replacement a lot easier though. Also, you don't need to remove the coil packs to get the airbox completely out, I've done the passenger side on at least 3 occasions without removing the coil packs. There's a position you can work it into towards the front where it comes out. I'd recommend the Gruven oil cap, too, it removes the fear of rounding or breaking the plastic.


I think the guy was saying that to remove the airbox base he removed the wiring to the coil packs from the packs and lowered that wire harness to below the head - this is actually the exact procedure in the Bentley manual for accessing the oil filter. You do not remove the coil packs themselves, just lower the wire harness to get clearance. Once the harness is lowered you can tilt the base of the box towards the engine and lift it out. 

Having said that I have been able to remove the airbox without lowering the wiring harness but it is much more difficult and takes a lot more maneuvering to get it back in. Apparently VW engineers designed this to just barely fit if the wiring is moved out of the way and did not intend for them to be removed with the harness in place.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, I know what he was saying, I was saying I've done it on several occasions without touching the coil packs or their connectors.


----------



## nhdoc (Jun 18, 2010)

invisiblewave said:


> Yes, I know what he was saying, I was saying I've done it on several occasions without touching the coil packs or their connectors.


Yes, it is possible to do it without moving the wires but it requires quite a bit more of a "contortionist's" move to get it in and out and from my experience it can take quite a bit of time figuring out exactly how it fits back in.


----------

