# Advice on MKIV 12v vr6 cam choice



## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

I've read posts dating back almost 10 years so don't ask me to search. I'm slowly tearing down the engine and I got to some stock cams (200000 kms or around 125000 miles) and find some cam lobes to be seriously worn down. lifters pitted and concave. Im guessing perhaps poor oil choice... I'm not really sure but I need to buy some new cams, lifters, HD springs and retainers. along with replacing valve seals.

My turbo project looks like this:
Stock internals/bottom end
Garrett T3/t4 .82ar hotside 4" inlet, 2.5" compressor outlet (i think... its been a while)
8.5:1 headspacer, arp studs etc
C2 42# software
custom short-runner intake manifold (I know stock cams had runner compensation so depending what cams I buy I will account for runner length in my manifold)
3" turbo back exhaust
theres a lot more but no need to list really.

Hers's the question: I am hoping to make around 350hp at the wheels running ~15 psi boost. I know very little about "matching cams to the turbo specs etc" I am totally willing to be educated if anyone has the time.

Schrick 268 (likely too pricey for me) Autotech 262s, DRC 268, Techtonics, 264°/260° are some that seem popular and have solid reviews. 

I may want more power one day as well so: what cams should I buy and why? My budget is around 600 ish


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

Go with DRC 268, I'm running schrick 268s around 350whp the car pulls all the way to the rev limiter. Don't worry about runner compensation with a SRI and bigger cams unless you have time and money to experiment with. If you can't find the DRC's Integrated Engineering just started pushing out 268 degree cams a couple months ago.


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## Dimmu (May 25, 2014)

http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-12v-vr6-street-camshaft-set

204 Na hp on a stick block is awesome.. People barely get 200 wheel with cai/tune/bolt ons and 288s



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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

Yeah I checked the integrated ones out. Look like a great product. And the DRCS must be good. What are the auto tech 262s really like? I checked and they're just over 300 bucks a pair. I can get cams HD springs retainers and new lifters from them for 550 plus shipping... 
I'll spend more if it means significant benefits. 
Also, is there really no need for runner compensation ? I do my own fabbing and welding so it's no expense.


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## Dimmu (May 25, 2014)

262s are a great cam. Good power band. Btw my car makes 330 wheel on low boost and stock cams. Runner compensation is important on these motors (imo) I've been looking into the 260/264s and hear good things about them. 


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

vdubtoews said:


> Yeah I checked the integrated ones out. Look like a great product. And the DRCS must be good. What are the auto tech 262s really like? I checked and they're just over 300 bucks a pair. I can get cams HD springs retainers and new lifters from them for 550 plus shipping...
> I'll spend more if it means significant benefits.
> Also, is there really no need for runner compensation ? I do my own fabbing and welding so it's no expense.


The autotech 262s are a decent cam mainly suited for relatively stock vr's not going beyond the basic bolt on upgrades. Not saying they won't work for heavier modified VR's but they will leave a significant amount of power on the table going beyond basic bolt ons. 

I wasn't saying there's no need for runner compensation at all, we all should know what the VR6 engine looks like and in theory a SRI with properly tuned runners could make more power. But you're running a chip with a universal tune aiming for 350whp, which would be a waste of time for you're current goal. I wouldn't sweat SRI runner compensation unless you're seeking BIG 1k+ hp and running standalone. I don't mean to shoot you down and these are just my opinions, at the end of the day it's you're car. If you decide to play around with different runner compensations please document back to back dynos and share with us.


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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

The 260's, 264's cams would be good since you are probably not revving pass 6500RPM, I would not recommend the 268's because you are only looking for 350WHP, your T3 turbo back house on a vr6 motor will also hurt you a bit on the revs over 6300RPM, so no sense on going with bigger cams, now if you were looking for over 400WHP, revving it to 7200-7500RPM, using a T4 turbo back housing I would recommend the 268's....
The bigger cams will shift the power up to higher RPM's where your T3 back housing will hurt you a bit.


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

zwogti said:


> The 260's, 264's cams would be good since you are probably not revving pass 6500RPM, I would not recommend the 268's because you are only looking for 350WHP, your T3 turbo back house on a vr6 motor will also hurt you a bit on the revs over 6300RPM, so no sense on going with bigger cams, now if you were looking for over 400WHP, revving it to 7200-7500RPM, using a T4 turbo back housing I would recommend the 268's....
> The bigger cams will shift the power up to higher RPM's where your T3 back housing will hurt you a bit.


Going to have to disagree with some of the things you said. The 260/264 cams are a good choice but for nearly the same price 268 cams are the best choice cam for a stock vr head anything bigger would require you to rev 7500+rpm and headwork to maximize the bigger cam's potential. He is most likely rev'ing past 6500, C2's software limiter is between 7200-7500 and 268 cams are optimal within that range.

The T3 hotside on his turbo pushing the required boost for 350whp I doubt there will be much choking on the top end plus 268 cams will kinda fill in that gap, Idk where you got this 6300 rpm choke point from either. Pushing beyond 350whp with your turbo though will struggle with high rpms.


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

Well i appreciate the opinions guys. Just to be straight, my cams are too badly worn to use so the primary reason I'm upgrading is because they need replacing. And it doesnt seem like much more money to buy performance cams rather than stock ones. Also in the future i will likely get a bigger turbo/go standalone etc which will make use of cams. as far as redline and my turbo exhaust housing "choking" out the engine, this is unlikely at 350 hp especially when its a daily driver 

Equal length runners should help balance out airflow. there's no way that equal length are only necessary above 1000 hp. seriously few guys are making that on a street car. I feel that runner length will not really add power on such a modest build but in the interest of greater HP goals in the future, theres no need to build a new manifold or buy different cams again.

I think in the interest of cost itll be DRC 268 or autotech 262. either way I'm doing HD srpings, LW lifters. 
Is there really any disadvantage to the 262s? will I lose potential higher up the HP scale?
Is there any disadvantage of DRC268s when I'm only making 350hp? will I see lower end torque loss say under 3500rpm?


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

vdubtoews said:


> Equal length runners should help balance out airflow. there's no way that equal length are only necessary above 1000 hp. seriously few guys are making that on a street car. I feel that runner length will not really add power on such a modest build but in the interest of greater HP goals in the future, theres no need to build a new manifold or buy different cams again.
> 
> I think in the interest of cost itll be DRC 268 or autotech 262. either way I'm doing HD srpings, LW lifters.
> Is there really any disadvantage to the 262s? will I lose potential higher up the HP scale?
> Is there any disadvantage of DRC268s when I'm only making 350hp? will I see lower end torque loss say under 3500rpm?


Yes you are right, runner compensation isn't necessary for 1000+ hp and there are many high hp VRT's without it. My argument was it would probably be necessary for all out power deep in the 1k+ hp range. Yes theoretically gains could be made on any setup using a runner compensated SRI. Nobody makes SRI's with runner compensation by the mass, there's a thread with a whole bunch of custom VR6 SRI's and a few people made SRI's with runner compensation.

For the 262 cams I wouldn't bother since you said you want build a more aggressive setup in the future so why waste money on something that will bottleneck you in the future. There shouldn't be any noticeable loss of low end power with properly timed 268 cams, people that say they do most likely mis-timed their engine and/or have some other problem. 268 cams are not big aggressive cams as some will say (they're probably running 262s) they are perfect for your current goal and can support you for your future goal too.


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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

12V_VR said:


> Going to have to disagree with some of the things you said. The 260/264 cams are a good choice but for nearly the same price 268 cams are the best choice cam for a stock vr head anything bigger would require you to rev 7500+rpm and headwork to maximize the bigger cam's potential. He is most likely rev'ing past 6500, C2's software limiter is between 7200-7500 and 268 cams are optimal within that range.
> 
> The T3 hotside on his turbo pushing the required boost for 350whp I doubt there will be much choking on the top end plus 268 cams will kinda fill in that gap, Idk where you got this 6300 rpm choke point from either. Pushing beyond 350whp with your turbo though will struggle with high rpms.


^^^^^ I never did set a 6300RPM mark, if you read it again it says It will *HURT* a bit ( NOT CHOKE)...... OVER 6300RPM, again *OVER*, not a set 6300RPM mark.
By his specs using a 8-5:1 compression, a T3 back house on a vr6 motor, looking for 350WHP on a daily car it tells me that he is not looking for big top end power, having that in consideration I was thinking the 260/264 would be a good all around set of cams to about 500WHP, I made 400WHP,500WHP,600WHP in the past with stock cams, my power band didn't look bad at all with stock cam, decided to go bigger on the turbo and added a set of 268, stopped the Dyno at 706WHP because my injectors couldn't keep up anymore.
The difference from the 260/264 to a set of 268 is not much at all, you're just shifting the power band up a little, I actually just sold here on vortex few months ago my full built race motor that I put a 268 cams in, the power band was good for my set up, now I decided to go a little bigger, but my new vr6 motor/set up this time will be with a set of 264/260 cams  let see how much power I'll make and how my power band will look like  :laugh::laugh:


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

zwogti said:


> ^^^^^ I never did set a 6300RPM mark, if you read it again it says It will *HURT* a bit ( NOT CHOKE)...... OVER 6300RPM, again *OVER*, not a set 6300RPM mark.
> By his specs using a 8-5:1 compression, a T3 back house on a vr6 motor, looking for 350WHP on a daily car it tells me that he is not looking for big top end power, having that in consideration I was thinking the 260/264 would be a good all around set of cams to about 500WHP, I made 400WHP,500WHP,600WHP in the past with stock cams, my power band didn't look bad at all with stock cam, decided to go bigger on the turbo and added a set of 268, stopped the Dyno at 706WHP because my injectors couldn't keep up anymore.
> The difference from the 260/264 to a set of 268 is not much at all, you're just shifting the power band up a little, I actually just sold here on vortex few months ago my full built race motor that I put a 268 cams in, the power band was good for my set up, now I decided to go a little bigger, but my new vr6 motor/set up this time will be with a set of 264/260 cams  let see how much power I'll make and how my power band will look like  :laugh::laugh:


congrats on the 706whp, I was just simply stating you can't throw out in the wind that it will start to hurt/choke over 6300rpm. How do you know without a dyno graph or feeling with your butt-dyno that power will start to taper over 6300rpms without any proof to backup what your saying. Yes his T3 hotside isn't ideal but it will get him to his current goal, it will just be more at the limit than a proper T4 hotside.


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

So I ordered a new set of autotech 262s, lifters, supertech springs and a peloquin install kit for my diff. I decided that with the kind of power i am looking to achieve, and knowing that putting it to the ground is going to hard enough already, 262s would suit me perfectly. I like the broader midrange gains and I'm not looking to drag the car (since there are no tracks around here anyways) so bigger HP gains up in the higher rpm range (like with 268s) isn't ideal for my driving style. 

on a side note, with the 262s, full front mount intercooler setup running about 10lbs boost and the 0.82 ar exhaust housing, where might I see full boost? I'm hoping to hit full boost <3500rpm. Is this possible? My intercooler piping is 2.5".


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## Dimmu (May 25, 2014)

I have the 82 ar. I see positive pressure @ 3k 



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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

vdubtoews said:


> So I ordered a new set of autotech 262s, lifters, supertech springs and a peloquin install kit for my diff. I decided that with the kind of power i am looking to achieve, and knowing that putting it to the ground is going to hard enough already, 262s would suit me perfectly. I like the broader midrange gains and I'm not looking to drag the car (since there are no tracks around here anyways) so bigger HP gains up in the higher rpm range (like with 268s) isn't ideal for my driving style.
> 
> on a side note, with the 262s, full front mount intercooler setup running about 10lbs boost and the 0.82 ar exhaust housing, where might I see full boost? I'm hoping to hit full boost <3500rpm. Is this possible? My intercooler piping is 2.5".


I'll guess full boost with your setup around 4000-4200RPM


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## JohnStamos (Feb 3, 2010)

Dimmu said:


> http://www.performancebyie.com/ie-12v-vr6-street-camshaft-set
> 
> 204 Na hp on a stick block is awesome.. People barely get 200 wheel with cai/tune/bolt ons and 288s
> 
> ...



First, that's not at the wheels. 

Second, that is with IE's "kit" which is their tune and a intake that is a copy of a style that has shown a large loss in power, large increase in IAT's and erratic MAF readings many MANY times.




IE makes a ton of great products, but I am not sure what they were thinking with this venture.


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

JohnStamos said:


> First, that's not at the wheels.
> 
> Second, that is with IE's "kit" which is their tune and a intake that is a copy of a style that has shown a large loss in power, large increase in IAT's and erratic MAF readings many MANY times


Can you elaborate more on what you're saying here?


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

Yes, Please elaborate. Looking for good info on cams. There are plenty of other places to speculate about intakes. I already bought and received my 262s from fourseasontuning which by the way is a fantastic company to deal with. 

This is a thread about cams for the VR6 12V daily driven turbo application. Any useful facts/information can be an advantage to readers.


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok I know what he was talking about, he was talking about air intake kits that just put a filter right on the maf housing. He is right about the "loss in power, large increase in IAT's and erratic MAF readings" but that kit is for NA vr's and irrelevant to the op's question.


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## dacannon2010 (Dec 10, 2010)

JohnStamos said:


> First, that's not at the wheels.
> 
> Second, that is with IE's "kit" which is their tune and a intake that is a copy of a style that has shown a large loss in power, large increase in IAT's and erratic MAF readings many MANY times.
> 
> ...



I run IE 268 kit and replaced or had any trouble with IAT or MAF readings.
Great pulls at 4k-7k youd feel boosted 
Also good at 2500k-3000k for casual driving 
No idle issues what's so ever it actually sounds like a bigger motor v8 small v8
I'd also recommend upgrading clutch with these
Every time I hit the gas in the powerband my passengers know and have to wear neck braces 
On the highway at around 60mph in third the car is a animal
Feels right with the vr gear ratios


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