# Not hatin on C2 but.......



## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

Can someone please explain to me how all these high hp c2 cars are runnin such crappy times.. I dont get it...
Not to pick on mole but he has over 400whp and barely broke 12s...
Alwaysinboost has like 450whp and maybe hit 13..
Yeah yeah traction and what not but it cant be that bad.. On paper these cars should be doin better then that
Does it have to do with the actual tuning or am i missing something...
Def not trying to hate on Jefnes bc im impressed with his abilities.. Just dont understand


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## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

Oh.. and i have personally owned a vr6t on haltech... a vr6t on eip software and a vr6t on c2 software so i have a lil experience


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

prolly has alot more to do with the driving than the software ... 
no need to try to bring something as subjective as this up...


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## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (ExtremeVR6)*

Im just asking a legitimate question..
If it really is everyones driving then id be surprised


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## skillton (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (ExtremeVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExtremeVR6* »_prolly has alot more to do with the driving than the software ... 
no need to try to bring something as subjective as this up... 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_Im just asking a legitimate question..
If it really is everyones driving then id be surprised


well if you look at the times of people who raced on slicks they are in the 11.60s-11.80s trapping 122.
the trap speeds alone are showing power. With slicks the times will start to come down a huge amount.


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## ShaggyVR6 (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VR6 Mole)*

YA MOLE raced on regualr tires no lsd with a lsd and slices would see alot diff times


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (ShaggyVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ShaggyVR6* »_YA MOLE raced on regualr tires no lsd with a lsd and slices would see alot diff times

yep, LSD makes the difference, top slicks on that, he'd be killin ish.


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## dcvento (Aug 1, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

so what are your times?


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (dcvento)*

Yea, Mole needs some balls. His car is kinda rice right now.


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (dcvento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcvento* »_so what are your times? 

if your talkin about my times, ive never went, but then again my car is on a TOTALLY different page than anything on this thread.


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## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (PBWB)*

I am very very happy with my c2 setup..
With the boost turned down a bit from my dyno, I ran a [email protected] 123.. without taking anything out for weight (speaker box, amp etc)..
I know that if I really tried, I could get her down a bit more, but, its not really a race car..
Cheers,
Chris


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (Chris Barnes)*

A couple reasons as I see it:
Most of the guys going C2 are building street cars. Full weight, no LSD in some cases, street tires, etc. These types of owners sometimes don't even want to go to the track. I know of plenty of guys like this. 
Alot of guys around here never go to the track. If they do, it's once or twice a season. You can only get 2-3 runs in per session at the tracks around here because they are so packed. Going to the track sucks. 
You really need to get in ALOT of laps to learn your car and run good times. Noone can roll up and run an 11 unless they are experienced and setup correctly. 
I never made it to the track this year with my all motor VR. I was just too damn busy. That may be another reason as well. The C2 software takes less time to install than it does to run a couple laps at one of my local tracks. Maybe the guys using it are as crazy busy as me and chose the software because of it's ease of install and proven reliability. 
Evan


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

I won't speak for anyone else but in my case there is a very simple explanation... its ALL DRIVER. Just look at my all motor times & n2o times... the ET compaired to the MPH is good for the most part. Thats because the car was very controllable and I knew how to drive it.
Try adding double the power and things change drastically, the car is a MUCH different animal today. for the record the 450HP dyno pull I did was at 25psi, my highest boost pass to date was at 19psi which is more then likely around 370-380whp. I basically just did that for ****s and giggles because I wanted to see a high MPH number... which I did, picked up 28 MPH on the top half of the track








like I've said before, once I get used to the power the times will drop. Its just like anything else, it just takes practice


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_A couple reasons as I see it:
Most of the guys going C2 are building street cars. Full weight, no LSD in some cases, street tires, etc. These types of owners sometimes don't even want to go to the track. I know of plenty of guys like this. 
Alot of guys around here never go to the track. If they do, it's once or twice a season. You can only get 2-3 runs in per session at the tracks around here because they are so packed. Going to the track sucks. 


We have a winner!!!!!!
Went to the track 3 time this year, 1st time 2 runs, 2nd , open track, 3 runs till the clutch blew apart , 3rd time 6 hours of wait to only get a botched run, and go home.
My car is more of a show/street car than a race car anyways.


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## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (mikebobelak)*

Yeah I have bad 60' times as you can see from my sig.
All in all, when Im running race gas, I am very happy with the performace of my car. I was happy to hit 13's, and with some work Im sure I could hit lower times. 
I guess you could classify me as one of those guys who would normally not go to the track, but of course I wanted to see what times my car would put down after the turbo install








My car is bone stock besides the Kinetic Kit w/C2 30# fueling, and the suspension.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

Yeah same excuses here. Though I really don't try to make excuses for my track time. Went to the track once and ended up breaking 3rd gear. Its no surprise I haven't been back lately. 
I rolled it off the line 2.4 60' 10psi in first and 2nd, 17-18psi in 3rd and 4th. [email protected] Haven't really run it in the 20+psi range at the track and that was with worn DRs at 27psi tire pressure. 
I hold with 600s on the street, so its fast enough for me. When I have the money I'll do the upgraded axles, gears, and slicks and go for good track times.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Yea, Agree with Mike and Evan...
I'll never take my car to the track. I don't care what it does there at all. I don't really even care with it does on the dyno - as long as it feels fast.








But of course, a dyno (for me, using the same dyno at the same location) is a means of telling how "different" your car is after a mod or two (turning up the boost for example).
So, the day you see me at the track is the day I win the lottery. 
My excuse has always been that if I spend money on my car now imagine if I beat the isht out of it over and over again just trying to get lower and lower times...
I'd break everything on my car!


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

and WE ALL know what nater's been through already.


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## DCor (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (mikebobelak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikebobelak* »_
We have a winner!!!!!!
Went to the track 3 time this year, 1st time 2 runs, 2nd , open track, 3 runs till the clutch blew apart , 3rd time 6 hours of wait to only get a botched run, and go home.
My car is more of a show/street car than a race car anyways. 

Mike ain't lying! I've seen his car run at the track and it's a turd! Boy, we sure expected to see more out of that vr6-sc, but nothing..... except a bitchen backfire! If the car is slow at least you impressed the crowd with fire!
I'm joking. Mike's my pal. His car is wicked fast on the street but suffers from lack of traction at the strip. With drag radials, it takes some time to get used to the launch not to mention the fear of exploding axles or tranny with that much power. "Fast" is certainly a relative term in this kinda circumstance. I'd say the sc cars are plenty fast even if the times don't show that.
dave.....


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

There's too many reasons to list.... It's not the FI setup that's for sure though, the dyno's prove it's doing it's job.

_Quote »_Yeah yeah traction and what not but it cant be that bad..

Yes, yes it can. It's a FWD vehicle.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 6:38 PM 11-21-2005_


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

I go to the track with everything in the car, street tires, etc. It was way easier to launch stock than it is now. Pair that with only a couple runs per night, with a long wait between runs and it dosen't help. 
I know I don't hookup for real until I get into 3rd gear also.


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*

I thought the same thing till I took my car to the track and tried to race it.. I ran 14.2-6's at 102 for like 12 runs.. I couldn't get the hang of it at all. Finally I got down how to launch my car and I was running constant 13.4's at 108 on street tires.. Its all in the driver, and breaking 400whp makes it ALOT more difficult for those like me who struggle with launching.








EDIT:
I'm not even close to making 400WHP btw. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

I know for one example my brother's VR6 will not hook until 4th gear. With radials on the street you can get some traction in the top of third, but no quick engagements or it will spin. He is running the C2 software at 17 - 22psi depending on the day.


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

Obviously nobody saw me rip a mind blowing 14.1 at waterfest this year in my 650+whp drag gti.







Need to work out bugs, get used to driving a car like a turbo vr... Give them a break. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (nycvr6)*

Justin, do you need a Nomex suit and a parachute to run 14.1's or what?








On topic, a friend of mine has several 12.4's @ 120ish under his belt on the C2 OBD1 36lb program. This is in a relatively heavy a2 gti @ 17ish psi. 14 psi made 345whp, so he is probably in the 370+ whp range. BFG drag radials, not sure of pressure or anything else. I'm sure his ET's will drop when he is able to get it to the track more often http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
On topic, a friend of mine has several 12.4's @ 120ish under his belt on the C2 OBD1 36lb program. This is in a relatively heavy a2 gti @ 17ish psi. 14 psi made 345whp, so he is probably in the 370+ whp range. BFG drag radials, not sure of pressure or anything else. I'm sure his ET's will drop when he is able to get it to the track more often http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

his car = hawtness


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_Justin, do you need a Nomex suit and a parachute to run 14.1's or what?









Nope, but i had that stuff anyway just incase i had good luck for once.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (nycvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nycvr6* »_Nope, but i had that stuff anyway just incase i had good luck for once.
















Well, then my next question is... did you release the parachute at the end of the run for the hell of it?







{all kidding aside, I can't wait to hear what a clean pass net's you} http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dcvento (Aug 1, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (leebro61)*

LOL that would be awsome..lol


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
Well, then my next question is... did you release the parachute at the end of the run for the hell of it?







{all kidding aside, I can't wait to hear what a clean pass net's you} http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Justin's runs at WF were like having blue balls.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_
Well, then my next question is... did you release the parachute at the end of the run for the hell of it?


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_Well, then my next question is... did you release the parachute at the end of the run for the hell of it?







{all kidding aside, I can't wait to hear what a clean pass net's you} http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Dont think it didnt cross my mind.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jackyltardvaark (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (nycvr6)*

most of those times are due to drivers sucking (no offense to anyone)
oettingerst's VRT puts down 336whp on c2 software, and runs a 13.4 in colorado, which is at altitude(5280ft) on street tires, not drag radials or slicks
but if he drives his own car it runs a 14.5
from all the vrts ive driven or put together the c2 software by far pulls the hardest


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (jackyltardvaark)*

In the summer of 1998 my full weight stage 3 vr6 96 gti ran a 12.04 at 124 and backed it up with a 11.81 at 123. This car was full weight and dynoed 388whp the night before at 18 psi. the 60 foot times were 1.85. In the right hands a 400 whp 2850lbs car will run 12.00 at 120-124 mph. 
So driver has a lot to due with it, but if you look at the dyno pulls I must say you can see a obvious differecnce between a C2's curve and a stand alone car. One is smoth and the other is eradic. this could cause the cars not to pull as hard up top????


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_
if you look at the dyno pulls I must say you can see a obvious differecnce between a C2's curve and a stand alone car. One is smoth and the other is eradic. this could cause the cars not to pull as hard up top????

which dynos are you refering to?


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (AlwaysInBoost)*

So which one is erradic....and where are the dynos.

C2Motorsports


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## jackyltardvaark (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (ForsFedRado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ForsFedRado* »_In the summer of 1998 my full weight stage 3 vr6 96 gti ran a 12.04 at 124 and backed it up with a 11.81 at 123. This car was full weight and dynoed 388whp the night before at 18 psi. the 60 foot times were 1.85. In the right hands a 400 whp 2850lbs car will run 12.00 at 120-124 mph. 
So driver has a lot to due with it, but if you look at the dyno pulls I must say you can see a obvious differecnce between a C2's curve and a stand alone car. One is smoth and the other is eradic. this could cause the cars not to pull as hard up top????

well obviously a stand alone car is going to have better fuel and ignition curves, but as far as chips for stock fuel injection C2 is the way to go


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (jackyltardvaark)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jackyltardvaark* »_
well obviously a stand alone car is going to have better fuel and ignition curves, but as far as chips for stock fuel injection C2 is the way to go

I'm not too skilled in standalone so I'd like to ask this question...
Why is stand alone "obviously....going to have a better fuel and ignition curve"????
I'm just curious.
I'm not talking about platform specific...just in general.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_I'm not too skilled in standalone so I'd like to ask this question...
Why is stand alone "obviously....going to have a better fuel and ignition curve"????
I'm just curious.
I'm not talking about platform specific...just in general.


Because when people make chips they have to:
A) Take into consideration everyone is going to have slightly different parts combos
B) Have a decent safety margin for varying factors such as ambient airtemps and fuel quality. Think about it, Someone from Canada is getting the same chip as someone in Arizona and it's more than likely programmed by someone that's from neither place but they've found a happy medien and something that works.
Standalone on the other hand:
I program mine to my specific parts, fuel grade and environment. The latter isn't done overnight but over the months of driving the car (mostly starting the car more than driving) in various conditions.
I guess it could be compared to a diet, what works great for one person miight in fact work well for a lot of people and shouldn't be discounted, but it will never take the place of a personal trainer or personal dietician.


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (Hardcore VW)*

standalone can be smoother than a well programmed chip only after 20 hours of tuning is performed. Add another ~5 - 15 to account for the inexperience of the tuner and the learning curve of the management's software. 
What I am saying is you can make your car run like total crap with standalone. It's really easy actually. It takes alot of tuning time to get a standalone car perfect and 'stock-like'


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

No doubt about it!!! In fact I'd say most people are better off with chips!


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_
A) Take into consideration everyone is going to have slightly different parts combos


Maybe. But the C2 tune is based on airflow as measured by the mass air meter, the one thing all parts combo's have in common. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_
B) Have a decent safety margin for varying factors such as ambient airtemps and fuel quality. Think about it, Someone from Canada is getting the same chip as someone in Arizona and it's more than likely programmed by someone that's from neither place but they've found a happy medien and something that works.


The Motronic ECU already compensates for varying ambient temperatures / atmospheric pressure, and the knock sensors will at least help save your motor if you get a bad tank of gas. 

I'm wondering why we never see any pics of VRBTCHCAR's whip with the hood up. 




_Modified by vr6swap at 11:02 AM 11-24-2005_


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

only because you have power doesn't mean its easy to run fast times. 
Plus its getting the power to the ground with acceleration.
no tration = no acceleration


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (GTijoejoe)*

Why is C2's name even in this thread?










_Modified by .:VRT:. at 4:30 PM 11-24-2005_


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_Can someone please explain to me how all these high hp c2 cars are runnin such crappy times.. I dont get it...


You have to remeber that the C2 setup is for the enthusiast who is trying to do things relatively inexpensively. So most of the people running their software don't have things like differentials, or even race tires\axles\suspension\everything else that it takes to acutally put power to the ground.
Trust me, 300-400whp in a still basically stock VW tends to light them up a little bit through 4th


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## a4chris (Jan 27, 2000)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Wh
why is C2's name even in this thread?









I was thinking the same thing.
making power is about 20% of what it takes to run good numbers at the track. It comes down to drag racing experience and having the car setup right for the 1/4 mile. tires/clutch/weight/diff.
Chris Green


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_
Maybe. But the C2 tune is based on airflow as measured by the mass air meter, the one thing all parts combo's have in common. 
The Motronic ECU already compensates for varying ambient temperatures / atmospheric pressure, and the knock sensors will at least help save your motor if you get a bad tank of gas. 

I'm wondering why we never see any pics of VRBTCHCAR's whip with the hood up. 
_Modified by vr6swap at 11:02 AM 11-24-2005_

Speed density systems are more acurate and as far as temps go, my point was it's all estimated, not "tuned". My point isn't to bash c2 or any other company that makes chips, I was trying to give the other person an answer to his question, if you can answer it better than I can, have at it.
Also I've found when people don't post under hood shots or open the hood, it's usually cause they have something to hide and it's usually not something good.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_Also I've found when people don't post under hood shots or open the hood, it's usually cause they have something to hide and it's usually not something good.

Maybe some people just don't give a isht about what's under the hood enough to take pics...
I certainly don't. But I've got nothing to hide.
Maybe he just never got around to taking pictures of his "whip" with the hood open







?


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (BALLIN-AUDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BALLIN-AUDI* »_
I was thinking the same thing.
making power is about 20% of what it takes to run good numbers at the track. It comes down to drag racing experience and having the car setup right for the 1/4 mile. tires/clutch/weight/diff.
Chris Green 

While I agree that power is only part of the equation in running a good E.T. trap speed should reflect the power the car is making. Most of the 400+hp cars with C2 chips trap 116 while Timmie and the others that used the eip fmu setup were trapping 120+ with only 360-370whp. If you plug the numbers into most hp calcs they seem to support those numbers. 
A better question would be how come C2 chipped cars don't seem to trap what the dyno numbers would indicate? And its not one its several. Look at most kinetic turbo cars that make anywhere between 220-240whp and only trap 101-102.
I don't think the original poster was bashing C2 at all just looking for an answer to a valid question.


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (nater)*


_Quote »_Maybe some people just don't give a isht about what's under the hood enough to take pics...

Pretty much, here I'll show you whats under there, but I think we've all seen it before a couple hundred times up here on the tex







nothing new about a turbo bolted onto a VR at this stage in the game.


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## ForsFedRado (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (nater)*

The dyno's I seen a week or so back from the car that made over 420 to the wheels are slightly eradic. I am not tring to bag c2, the stuff you guys are selling works. Never said it did not. The ability to tune a MAF car for force induction is nearly impossible. The majority of the force induction auto manufatured are designed with MAP fuel adjustments, some use MAP and MAF (i.e. audi, porsche and vw). But even a stock curve is slightly eradic. If you look at the dyno's from most stand alone car you will have a very smooth curve. 
Just a observation. 
The c2 car I drove in resently (ngp's a59) ran strong. It did not make the power it should at the boost level was running, it may have but it has a cat and to low of compression. 

_Modified by ForsFedRado at 9:37 AM 11-25-2005_


_Modified by ForsFedRado at 9:40 AM 11-25-2005_


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (vw1320)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_While I agree that power is only part of the equation in running a good E.T. trap speed should reflect the power the car is making. Most of the 400+hp cars with C2 chips trap 116 while Timmie and the others that used the eip fmu setup were trapping 120+ with only 360-370whp. If you plug the numbers into most hp calcs they seem to support those numbers. 
I don't think the original poster was bashing C2 at all just looking for an answer to a valid question. 

I trapped 114.8mph. But that was ~11psi in first and second gear (~290whp), and ~17psi in 3rd and 4th gear (367whp), via a high/low boost switch. So half the run the car was down from full power because I don't have slicks to put it down. If I ran the 17psi in 1st through 4th I would probably run a [email protected] If I end up getting axles and gears I'll run slicks.


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I trapped 114.8mph. But that was ~11psi in first and second gear (~290whp), and ~17psi in 3rd and 4th gear (367whp), via a high/low boost switch. So half the run the car was down from full power because I don't have slicks to put it down. If I ran the 17psi in 1st through 4th I would probably run a [email protected] If I end up getting axles and gears I'll run slicks. 


exactly what i do


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VR6 Mole)*

I trapped 112.8 @7psi on my EIP stage 2 chip. Street trim, no lsd, stock engine, tranny, clutch. 13.37et, 2.2 60ft, 205 50 15 Yoko avs es-100's


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (DieGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieGTi* »_I trapped 112.8 @7psi on my EIP stage 2 chip. Street trim, no lsd, stock engine, tranny, clutch. 13.37et, 2.2 60ft, 205 50 15 Yoko avs es-100's

that is a damn good trap speed for 7psi... that was in an A2 correct? Do you know what the weight was?


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (AlwaysInBoost)*

7.7lbs to be more precise. It was in an a2, unsure on the weight but there was no spare or back seat.
If we're sharing opinions then mine would be that _most_ of the guys that buy the off the shelf c2 fuel kit aren't concerned with going that fast- they just want to be faster than most sc'd or all motor vr6 and some others just want to be able to put it on their stat sheet for shows or for pillow talk. If they wanted to go fast then they wouldn't show up to the track unprepared to *race*. I think there is some anxiety towards proving what your car can do; nothing like keeping the stereo and spare in the car so you can have an excuse when you run a 15. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself and your car I guess. I wouldn't blame the issue on the product, it's the stereotypical user for the market segment. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I wish I was making as much hp as some of the top c2 cars.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (DieGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieGTi* »_7.7lbs to be more precise. It was in an a2, unsure on the weight but there was no spare or back seat.
If we're sharing opinions then mine would be that _most_ of the guys that buy the off the shelf c2 fuel kit aren't concerned with going that fast- they just want to be faster than most sc'd or all motor vr6 and some others just want to be able to put it on their stat sheet for shows or for pillow talk. If they wanted to go fast then they wouldn't show up to the track unprepared to *race*. I think there is some anxiety towards proving what your car can do; nothing like keeping the stereo and spare in the car so you can have an excuse when you run a 15. Whatever makes you feel better about yourself and your car I guess. I wouldn't blame the issue on the product, it's the stereotypical user for the market segment. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I wish I was making as much hp as some of the top c2 cars.









I totally agree with what you said. Most people who have the plug and play software only make dyno "passes" instead of 1/4mile passes. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that but its not what *I* would do. 
Being able to throw a chip/injectors/MAF or use a RRFPR is the easy part, putting the new power to the ground and running a good number is much harder. It takes time and a lot of practice that most people aren't prepaired to invest.
I personally won't rest until I have a mid 11 second car trapping 120+. I know I'll get there but its going to take time, you have to crawl before you walk... I will be at the track on Sunday trying to run better then 14.1 and not blow up


----------



## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (AlwaysInBoost)*

Don't forget to post the results







I will in the spring.


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (AlwaysInBoost)*

i wish your gears luck


----------



## 91 golf4drvr6 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VR6 Mole)*

Why didn't this post end on the last page, when Chris Barnes gave his #,s. 429hp on the dyno @22psi and he ran an [email protected] 123MPH!!!!!! on about 19 or 20 psi. Thats a straight up street car with a diff, stock axles and small slicks. And believe me he didn't beat it hard off the line to get those #'s. Thanks in part to c2 software and alot of time and effort! That's enough to impress the hell out of me! So what other proof do we need that this is good stuff?


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (91 golf4drvr6)*

I think it is sick!,I will be using the C2 stuff in a customers car soon..........but I really would like to see Chris Barnes time slip........we are running stand alone and it took us 27 psi to run a [email protected],and we have posted the timeslip.........
Chris Barnes post your timeslip,if you want to make that claim "legit".


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Big numbers are great...really.
But drive the car and feel how smooth it is on/off throttle and part throttle to wot.
I'm sure a very well tuned sds car would run similar but again, that's all dependent upon who's tuning it, right?
I mean, not trying to sound like an arse (really) but sds doesn't just tune itself, right?
That's where my lack of skills needs Jeff's expertise







.
And that's also why my car is smooth as a baby's behind.


----------



## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

I dont have to post a time slip to make my times "legit"..- just because I dont care a thing about making outrageous claims etc... so, if you dont believe it, its your loss.. not mine
This is my streetcar that I decided to run in the 1/4.. I made 6 passes- my first was a 12.2, and I gradually came down from there-
My 11.80 pass went like this-
R/T- .796
60"- 1.999
330- 5.367
1/8- 7.869
MPH- 97.97
1/4- 11.819
MPH- 123.10
I know wit some practice I could get my et down even more, but, who cares... Im really happy with how strong the car is-
Cheers,
Chris


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (Chris Barnes)*

Well if you really have the slip,then WHY can't you post it?








Not that I don't believe it,but it is only fair if yu are going to claim that time to post it up,since you are the fastest/quickest C2 car so far...
Hell I could say I'm running 10's.........but I didn't.We ran 11.8 and posted the slip for proof http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Just like many others do,or atleast a pic at the track with the timing board.........something.








And are you sure you were "only running 18 psi"?


_Modified by VWAUDITECH at 11:41 AM 11-27-2005_


----------



## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

The reason I havent posted it is because I dont have a scanner etc... So, I guess I could take a digital img or something, email it to chris at c2, and im sure he'd be glad to post it








I dont see it as hard to believe that my car is this fast... well, maybe to those of you who havent ridden in it








Anyway, if it will satisfy you, I will make sure and get this posted asap-
Cheers,
Chris
p.s. do you need any engine bay pics or anything else while were at it??


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

I just got back from the track this afternoon, Atco was busy as usual but I got 5 passes in and figured out one very important thing... I need taller slicks because with the 22" tires I have to shift to 5th at the top end of the track to avoid hitting the rev limiter.
overall it was a very good time, I didn't break and had a blast. best pass was a 12.7 @ 116 w/ 2.3 60'. I'm having a seriously hard time getting the car to take-off in first gear and not just bog as soon as I floor it







If I can get better then a 2.3 60' I know 11s are in the bag http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . The slowest pass of the day was a 13.1 @ 109 where I hit the rev limiter in 3rd and 4th. All the rest were 12.9 or better with the MPH being between 116 & 117 the whole night, very consistent at 19psi.
I'm probably done for the season now, time to take her apart over the winter and work out the bugs...


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

_Quote »_p.s. do you need any engine bay pics or anything else while were at it??

Verification that the clock at the track was working correctly, ambient air and asphalt temps at the track, your drivers license number, social security number, lie detector test graphs, mothers maiden name, and....... that should about do it










_Modified by .:VRT:. at 7:22 PM 11-27-2005_


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Whatever you have to do,just post it........remember,there are probably 50 or less 11 sec. VR turbos in the entire world........25 of them are on VWSport.com.,so a little proof is good. 
Remember it is easy to doubt the Vortex,I have "read about"
1.A "500whp" 8V show car from Greece
2.A "1000hp"16V from the same guy from Greece
3.A "Mid 13 sec." Corrado G60
4."Fast" R-32 turbos that have never run at the track(or their owners were too embarassed to post their times)I am talking priv ate owner cars,NOT shop cars
So there is a lot of unsubstantiated claims rolling about,I am just trying to keep everyone HONEST!! So don't take it personally.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_Whatever you have to do,just post it........remember,there are probably 50 or less 11 sec. VR turbos in the entire world........25 of them are on VWSport.com.,so a little proof is good. 

HAH HAH HAH!!!!!
You guys are such dorks.

Who freakin' cares? Jesu christmas...


----------



## 91 golf4drvr6 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*



VWAUDITECH said:


> Whatever you have to do,just post it........
> 
> Damn Dude! You have some major trust issues huh? Somebody lie to you alot growin up or somethin? Obviously you don't know C Barnes, this is one guy that does'nt lie about his Volkswagens!


----------



## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_
...So there is a lot of unsubstantiated claims rolling about,I am just trying to keep everyone HONEST!! So don't take it personally.









Keeping everyone honest, huh? Knock yourself out, brother. I got other stuff I need to be doing. 
VRCARBTCH or whatever his name is runs up wanting to talk sh*t about how all the C2 cars are slow on the strip, and when somebody shows up with a C2 car running some fast times, nobody believes it.


----------



## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (vr6swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6swap* »_
VRCARBTCH or whatever his name is runs up wanting to talk sh*t about how all the C2 cars are slow on the strip, and when somebody shows up with a C2 car running some fast times, nobody believes it. 










Damn do you get paid to lick c2's nuts or do you just do it for fun?
I didnt talk trash about anyone.. I was asking a serious question bc i didnt understand...I just remember the gtr guys goin alot faster with a decent amount less Hp.
If you have nothing useful to say dont waste anyones time please..
Thank You


----------



## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*

Settle down, Bevis.







You KNOW you wanted to cause a little commotion when you started this thread.








What *I* want to know is: Where are YOUR timeslips Btchcar!?!?!?!?! Hmmmm????






















Let's see what that bucket of bolts of YOURS can do.....
Hahahahaha. it's ON now, paulie-boy. 
Mwah!
-Uncle T.J.
This thread makes me glad that I just simply don't give a $hit what my "times" are. I just want a fast car to drive around on the street.







Too bad my VRT is built but not sitting in my damn car yet.


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (G60Driver)*

It is understandable that some don't care about 1/4 mile..........that is fine,but it is a measure of a cars "real world" acceleration,ie POWER that it is making.Please correct me if I am wrong,but isn't that the WHOLE PURPOSE of forced induction? To make your car more powerful?
Dynos are cool and all,but it is the people that cannot do a good 1/4 mile run that seem to say "who cares about 1/4 mile".
I guess if yuo are happy saying that you have a turbo on your car and it makes cool BOV noises,then that is your perogative,but when people ask you what "you run 1/4 mile?"What do you guys say?(nater)
Stuff like,"I don't know,but it FEELS fast and has a loud blow off valve"? J/K But you know what I mean.
ANYBODY,I mean ANYBODY can build a engine and put a turbo on it,but if you don't have a performance (1/4 mile #)to go with it,then it is simply "just another car with a turbo on it".I see those at car shows all the time.


----------



## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

I can honestly say i have never been to the track with any of my cars ever... And for the people that think im just bashing the c2 software im not.. I have it in my daily driver as we speak.. I have nothing against anything Atwood has ever done.. Im just curious as to how such low times are being run


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

91Golf4door........am I SUPPOSED to know "WHO" Chris Barnes is?







Sorry man,I don't.That is why I say don't take it PERSONALLY.....here is our "proof".
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2303593
see the TIMESLIP??That is what I am talking about!
Like I said,nothing personal,and there are PLENTY of VR6 turbos out there..........only a HANDFUL run in the 11's,and if he is the ONLY 11 sec. C2 one,don't you think he would be happy to provide some proof?That would help C2 business and make others look closer at the C2 stuff.Hell I would not build any VR6 unless it is stand alone,BUT I had a customer here in Hawaii that I am building a VR turbo for next month ORDER a C2 kit since it is "worth" trying since people are having good results hp wise,and we are only looking top build a 13 sec. car. So I RECOMMENDED it to him and if it doesn't work the way we want,we will go stand alone.But I have enough confidence in Jeffs abilities to recommend and use this product,so don't think I am C2 bashing.








and BTW,I LIKE 1/4 mile racing,because I like to build cars that are more than "just another car with a turbo slapped on it".












_Modified by VWAUDITECH at 9:32 PM 11-27-2005_


----------



## 91 golf4drvr6 (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*



VWAUDITECH said:


> 91Golf4door........am I SUPPOSED to know "WHO" Chris Barnes is?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

like I said in the very first response to your first post. 
It's all about the driver... it's been said time and time again ... a couple posts back you comment that the only people saying they dont' care about 1/4 mile times are the ones who can't run a good time ... well... doesn't this make perfect sense? If they don't care... then they probably don't practice... 
this isn't about licking someone's nuts here, it's about supporting friends who're just trying to help out a community. Chris Collier is a personal friend of mine, and he's a great guy! Fact of the matter is Chris C. doesn't give a rats azz about drag racing... he simply wanted a bolt in solution that would provide the greatest response and smoothness from a turbocharged vr6 engine. His solution worked very well, and people wanted to buy it... it got more popular, now he finds himself in business w/mr atwood. That's really all it amounts to ... 
In regards to your BOV noise comment ... C2 strongly recommends that you reroute your BOV when you install their kit ... most of those who're getting C2's stuff follow the directions. So if you want to be insulting and make it sound like C2's customers are all back ally posers who just want a cool sound ... you need to rethink your strategy. 
I'm surprised to see something like this from you, most of the stuff I've seen you post is cool ... and I've thought you were a pretty cool guy ... maybe this has just gotten out of hand, and become something that isn't even related to your initial question... if that's the case start a new thread regarding Turbocharged Posers... I think you've gotten a complete and fair answer in regards to C2's software and the times that're being ran in cars with it.


----------



## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

I can understand what you're saying but it doesn't hold true for everyone. Just because someone (like me) doesn't care about knowing my 1/4s and traps and whatnot, you say that makes me a lousy driver? Haha. If you say so, it MUST be true...
The purpose of forced induction is to make the car FUN. 
Fun. 
That's it. 
How many people posting in this thread drive a car down a track for a living? Not many, I'll wager.
in that case, it's just a matter of ENJOYING your own car. 
Am I understanding you correctly? You're saying that if someone has a VRT and DOESN'T track it to get "real world" times then they are somehow less of a person, enthusiast, dubber or whatever than someone who DOES track their car? That's complete bull****.







Like anything else, if you want to track your car well, it will take a LOT of practice. Just because YOU think everyone SHOULD do that, doesn't mean everyone else thinks they should. Damn, you're trying to say your OPINION is FACT.







And that ain't workin' for me....
Besides, if that were true, anyone who does ANYthing for fun would just be "posing" rather than being serious. My girlfriend rides horses. She likes it a lot and is serious about it. She's been doing it for years. Does that mean that if she doesn't compete she's not a good rider? That she's making excuses? Am I understanding you correctly?
I'm 31, I have a job I enjoy, a girlfriend I love dearly, tons of stuff I enjoy doing (living life) and it just so happens I love VWs and have had a bunch of them. I love driving them. Driving them on a daily basis. On a track would even be fun sometimes but certainly NOT the reason I build my cars. 
Using your opinion, if you want to get serious on a TRACK then why even bother to keep your car streetable at all? Completely gut it, run a fuel cell and install a full cage, do a fiberglass front end and all that other drag racing stuff. C'mon, if you don't, you're not SERIOUS about your track times. Right?








See how assinine that sounds? Haha. Seriously... Relax a little bit and stop trying to make everyone besides you out to be a poser. Damn....


----------



## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_and BTW,I LIKE 1/4 mile racing,because I like to build cars that are more than "just another car with a turbo slapped on it".









But the problem with that is... you STILL end up with another VR with a turbo "slapped" on it. Someone else could build the exact same car that you have and not track it. That doesn't make your car better. It just pumps up your ego and has you making rude comments to other dubbers who love their cars.
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (G60Driver)*

Why are yu guys SO defensive?Dam,if you don't race,that is cool.BUT if you say you run fast,what is WRONG WITH ASKING FOR PROOF?
Next time somebody asks you what your car runs (which EVERYONE ASKS IF YOU HAVE A TURBO CAR!) I guess YOU can say "I don't know,but it's FUN".If YOU are happy with that,'then that is cool,why would I care?








But when people look at my car with a big intercooler,and 3" exhaust ,and intercooler piping ,etc.,and ask "what does your car run?" I CAN say "[email protected]".........there you go.








You guys can have yur "fun"...I like my "ET and trap",know what I mean??


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

Some food for thought.Here is a point to THINK about...............read EVERY car mag out there.........Motor Trend,Automobile,Road&Track,etc...........EVERY CAR TESTED,from the 600+hp Ferrari Enzo to a frikin' Kia is TESTED WITH 1/4 mile ET and TRAP.................I guess EVERY auto journalist and enthusiast that reads those magazines are "elitest" and trying to "make others feel bad" with 1/4 mile testing right?.........get a grip man.
People want to know how fast cars are,that is a FACT since day ONE when the first cars were getting "hopped up". 1/4 mile has been and will always be the STANDARD for which a cars acceleration will be judged.
If you don't believe me,then try picking up a car magazine and see for yourself!












_Modified by VWAUDITECH at 10:18 PM 11-27-2005_


----------



## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

No, but they DO test cars FOR A LIVING.







That was my whole point.


----------



## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

I honestly didnt think this would turn out to be filled with such drama.. Im pretty much taking it form everyone that the high powered c2 cars are all driven by really crappy drivers.. That is what i wanted to know so i guess that is my answer. 
Somehow alot of the junk posts in here are from people that dont have a turbo car and no clue about the c2 software.. 
VWAUDITECH,.. You make perfect sense to me.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And Unlce T Gay... what software are you gonna run if you ever get your vr6 goin?


----------



## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*

I've got C2 software, of course! Is that enough ball-licking?








I guess if I wouldn't have spent so much time polishing everything on the engine I might have had it together already. But I needed to do that so when the hood's up and people say "how fast is that?" I can at least say "oh, I'm a $hitty driver, so it's slow. But at least it's pretty...."


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (G60Driver)*

Yes,you can say that,and you are not the only one,I have heard that exact same thing many times,especially at the race track.
Everyone is into different things,but no matter WHAT excuse anyone uses remember this kids.
"When the green light drops,the BS stops!!" that saying has been around forever and still holds true........


----------



## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (G60Driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60Driver* »_I've got C2 software, of course! Is that enough ball-licking?








I guess if I wouldn't have spent so much time polishing everything on the engine I might have had it together already. But I needed to do that so when the hood's up and people say "how fast is that?" I can at least say "oh, I'm a $hitty driver, so it's slow. But at least it's pretty...."

Guess i didnt think of it that way.. I wouldnt turbo my car and try to show it off...Id turbo it to drive faster...


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*

Man,you better get your flame suit on!!! WHY do you think they sell POLISHED turbos!!!Bwahahaha


----------



## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

Haha. Yep.
I don't know that I'll need a flame suit but I *DO* like my stuff to look nice. Yeah, I'll be able to drive it fast and that's the main reason for doing it but it sure is nice to have it fast AND pretty....


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (G60Driver)*

Sorry,I was aiming that comment at VRBTCHCAR,since there are a LOT of guys that build "TURBO SHOW CARS".............WHY I do not know.........







These cars will have every megabuck speed part,yet never be driven to 1/4 the "potential".......








That is like going out with Denise Richards or Rosario Dawson,and only "kissing" them


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

Bottom line, don't post times or numbers if you don't have any proof to back them up, this should be known by now. No one is talking trash about C2, somebody just had a question and I believe that the answer has been stated serveral times thorughout the post.
I love when users you have never seen before in this forum just post to start ****. Your really helping to advance the VW FI community.


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Man, I'll go on record. C2 stage 2 blower/not turbo!
My car is for me, its for show,and for me to go F*** around in.
Yes, I've run it down the track; my best overall run is a 13.8 @102mph, even with the clutch popping w/~150feet to go.
Et's have ranged from 15's to 13's, mph from 98mph to 105mph.
Every time I've run at the track I manage to damage something,so I dont go very often.
Also I have gotten WAY more out my car by having a NICE one ,rather than one thats in a sea of average quick ones.(yes high 11's&mid 12's are average for fwd cars nowdays)
Everything from mag features, interview on "Speed", industry insiders,....even a new/better paying job.
So knock at my slow et's, its not Chris/Jeff's software, its me not really giving it too much value(drag racing).
pics for the interested;http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2315203


_Modified by mikebobelak at 9:30 AM 11-28-2005_


----------



## subrosasix (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: (mikebobelak)*

simple it's the DRIVER.....
and the rest of their setup. that whole no lsd plea is bs. if your getting good 60ft. then yourgetting good 60fts. but if u wanna run slicks lsd is neeeded.


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

double post????
_Modified by mikebobelak at 10:07 AM 11-28-2005_


_Modified by mikebobelak at 10:07 AM 11-28-2005_


----------



## corrado1013 (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_I just got back from the track this afternoon, Atco was busy as usual but I got 5 passes in and figured out one very important thing... I need taller slicks because with the 22" tires I have to shift to 5th at the top end of the track to avoid hitting the rev limiter.
overall it was a very good time, I didn't break and had a blast. best pass was a 12.7 @ 116 w/ 2.3 60'. I'm having a seriously hard time getting the car to take-off in first gear and not just bog as soon as I floor it







If I can get better then a 2.3 60' I know 11s are in the bag http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . The slowest pass of the day was a 13.1 @ 109 where I hit the rev limiter in 3rd and 4th. All the rest were 12.9 or better with the MPH being between 116 & 117 the whole night, very consistent at 19psi.
I'm probably done for the season now, time to take her apart over the winter and work out the bugs...

The video came out good. I got your 13.1 & 12.7 runs. As soon as I get the video onto my computer Ill post it up or email it to you. Im such a burnout that I lost your # already. Ill just get you through vortex though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Sick car.


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (subrosasix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *subrosasix* »_ that whole no lsd plea is bs. .

sure buddy


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)




----------



## ArcticFox (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Some people cant drive. Also they have families and the drag strip is a very dangerous place. Just keep on driving the on the streets. Every time you start-up that car think about your friends and family waiting for you when you come back home.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (veedub11)*

I just want to say that I am running C2 software in my VRT but am just a bit disapointed that I can't go with more boost.







I have had the car together but lack of funds and time have haulted the project. The car was running over the summer but not very well. One minute the car would be pulling 20psi the next minute it won't go above 12psi. The day I was at the track when the numbers in my sig were put down was a sad day. I made 7 passes that day and that was the only pass the car did not misfire on. I had one other pass the car did misfire on and still put down 13.1. I havn't been able to figure out the misfire issue up to this point due to lack of time and the fact that it's so intermitent. Like I said it could run 20psi at 3:00 in the afternoon but come 3:05 all she wants to do is misfire. I will be contacting C2 over the winter to talk to them about making me a custom program for much larger injectors and a higher boost setting. If it can't be done then standalone is where I'll be next. 
Car consists of: Ross forged pistons, ARP head and rod bolts, C2 8.5 SS spacer, T04B .96 hot .60 cold, 42lb. inj. log mani, 4" DP, 24x9x3" tube and fin IC, 2.5" IC piping, C2 stage 2 programming, schrick HD valve springs, SPEC stage 3 clutch, 3.64 R&P, Peloquine LSD, stock axles and no slicks.


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (ArcticFox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ArcticFox* »_Also they have families and the drag strip is a very dangerous place. Just keep on driving the on the streets. Every time you start-up that car think about your friends and family waiting for you when you come back home. 

Yeah, because the street is a much safer place then the track.


----------



## vdub speed (Dec 26, 2000)

*Re: (ArcticFox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ArcticFox* »_Some people cant drive. Also they have families and the drag strip is a very dangerous place. Just keep on driving the on the streets. Every time you start-up that car think about your friends and family waiting for you when you come back home. 

Are you Serious


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re:*

does anyone else see the irnoy in this thread?
This guy who never even took his car to the track is bitching about how some people can't drive their cars.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... (VRBTCHCAR)*

how about this. Anyone ever hear of someone blowing up their car because of C2's software. If anything, their software won't be the reason your car blows up/runs like ish.


----------



## subrosasix (Jul 30, 2005)

*Re: (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_
sure buddy

i knwo people pulling 60ft. better then many people WITH lsd. so lsd is not everything. It just gives that assurance that your tranny wont break when the diff falls apart.
yall neggas need to just learn to drive. if somethign wrong with your setup, step up your game and get on point.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_ I guess if yuo are happy saying that you have a turbo on your car and it makes cool BOV noises,then that is your perogative,but when people ask you what "you run 1/4 mile?"What do you guys say?(nater)
Stuff like,"I don't know,but it FEELS fast and has a loud blow off valve"? J/K But you know what I mean.

Ahhhh...
My BOV doesn't make a peep...neither does my dumptube.
So, I'm kinda confused why you threw my name in there. Just b/c I called you a dork? Plus, I've never asked what somebody's car runs in the quarter...


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (G60Driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60Driver* »_Haha. Yep.
I don't know that I'll need a flame suit but I *DO* like my stuff to look nice.

Hah. You should see how pathetic my "under hood" looks.
Ugly as hell...


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdub speed* »_
Are you Serious 


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
Yeah, because the street is a much safer place then the track.









He wasn't talking about racing on the street...he's talking about "normal" guys like ME that can't afford to get crazy tickets anymore or get hurt...
Or actually (my main reason for not going to the track)...can't afford to be fixing something everytime I race it on the track trying to go faster and faster and faster.
I'd actually argue that people drive faster on a track (trying to get their ET's down) and that it's not always the safest place to be...b/c unlike a Nascar race you don't have to be a "good" driver to race the 1/4 mile.


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## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_does anyone else see the irnoy in this thread?
This guy who never even took his car to the track is bitching about how some people can't drive their cars.

















Dude im pretty sure took the short bus to school...im not sayin people cant drive and im not saying anything bad about the software.. all i have been doing is asking a serious question comparing high power c2 cars to other cars i.e. GTR guys..
If i didnt work 60 hours a week and had a track within a few hours of my house i would go... but that has nothing to do with the thread... Its great you have a 400+ hp car that runs high 12.8s.. congrats.. Now we all know your times and everything its pointless for you to post anymore
Thank you for the people that understand my question


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Or actually (my main reason for not going to the track)...can't afford to be fixing something everytime I race it on the track trying to go faster and faster and faster.


How is it that you feel you will be breaking stuff everytime you go to the track? If things are done the way they should be it won't break.

_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_b/c unlike a Nascar race you don't have to be a "good" driver to race the 1/4 mile.

 
Are you stating that they let anybody with a car onto the track or that it takes no real skill??


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## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_Are you stating that they let anybody with a car onto the track or that it takes no real skill??

At my local track, that's EXACTLY what happens. BOTH things you mention. You pay $10 and sign a waiver and you can track ANYTHING you bring and you can be the suckiest driver EVER. It has the potential to be a VERY dangerous place.








But I'm always too busy scamming on the chicks in the lowered integras to run...


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (G60Driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60Driver* »_
At my local track, that's EXACTLY what happens. BOTH things you mention. You pay $10 and sign a waiver and you can track ANYTHING you bring and you can be the suckiest driver EVER. It has the potential to be a VERY dangerous place.









Same at our track, tech inspection is a joke and all the idiots in the ricers have to do burnouts in the pits because the cars can't do anything else besides squeel tires and sound like weed wackers.


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## G60Driver (Mar 6, 2002)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*

Tech inspection? What's that? Hahaha. SERIOUSLY, they've NEVER inspected my car...


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_
Damn do you get paid to lick c2's nuts or do you just do it for fun?


I don't have to lick anyone's nuts, son. Chris Collier was my friend before he started C2, and I've still got his back, because of late he seems to have become a target for Vortex boy-b*tches and haters. 
We already have one C2 car in our shop (you may have seen it on the cover of PVW last year) and another (mine) will be back on the road and under boost, by spring, if the bodyshop holds up it's end of the deal. Chris is my friend, but trust me, if the product was weak I'd run something else, or do without. 


_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_
I didnt talk trash about anyone.. I was asking a serious question bc i didnt understand...I just remember the gtr guys goin alot faster with a decent amount less Hp.


The answer to your *real* (?) question is so obvious it's no wonder you can't figure it out. 
The GTR guys run such fast times with less HP because they live to go fast at the drag strip. Their cars aren't street cars at the drag strip, it's more like drag cars driven on the street. They spend about a million man-hours a year at the strip and in the shop for the sole purpose of, you guessed it, going fast at the drag strip. And they've got the time slips to prove it. 
You can't deny that crew does more with less than just about anybody else in the country. 

The C2 guys, on the other hand, tend to be a little more casual, Bobelak and Mole are the only ones I've heard of spending any amount of time at the strip. Nothing wrong with that, a fast street car is still pretty fun, and not everybody aspires to be Don F'ing Prudhomme, you know? 
The C2 stuff is still pretty new, it's still being developed, people are still figuring out how to make the software do what they want. It could be that the C2 tunes will prove to be far superior to any other software available yet. Maybe not, time will tell. 
Chris Barnes (who isn't a friend of mine, so you can't accuse me of nutswinging) has run all three brands of software, plus Autronic standalone, and has posted the he is more pleased with the driveability and smoothness of the C2 tune than any other setup he tried. He also went on to say the ATP / EIP programs were great at full throttle, but trying to drive it around town sucked. 
That break it down enough?
Tai: ease up on the throttle. The people who think it's important will post up time slips, those who don't, won't. No need to get all wrung out about it.


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## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (vr6swap)*

I have had 3 different setups as well has Haltech.. And unless the person tuning your friends car was very inexperienced then it should have been alot better then the rest.
I have not picked on c2 at all.. I have there god damn set up in my car right now so you need to get your head out of your ass..
Alot of my question had alot to do with Moles times just bc from what i can tell he is a very good driver.. His times with his old sc setup were very impressive to me so i wouldnt think he would have a problem with the c2 setup
You dont have to call me son bc im glad your not my father


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_
Alot of my question had alot to do with Moles times just bc from what i can tell he is a very good driver.. His times with his old sc setup were very impressive to me so i wouldnt think he would have a problem with the c2 setup

haha im a good driver??
i wish i could do better but it was peg leg and drag radials


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*

The cars I have built are all street cars,daily drivers,no race cars at all.
We drive them to the track,bolt on slicks and put in high octane gas and run em'.Nothing special to it,and we have driven home every time,if you build it right,it won't break(99% of the time)..........so RUN your cars......don't be scared!!








I will keep an eye out for that 11.8 timeslip to be posted in this thread......WHERE is it?








Post it up and I will not ask anymore.Thanks


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: Not hatin on C2 but....... ([email protected])*

Please clear this up for me............some say it "takes no/very little skill to run a good 1/4 mile",then some say "I am a $hitty driver,that is why my times are bad".......WHICH is it?


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_unlike a Nascar race you don't have to be a "good" driver to race the 1/4 mile.


I have to disagree with that last statement. Unless you have actually been to the track and driven down the 1320 you can't make that assumption.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_Are you stating that they let anybody with a car onto the track or that it takes no real skill??


Hah!!!! I'm saying that ANYBODY can get onto a track. I'm NOT saying that it takes no real skill. Sorry buddy, but I wasn't saying that it takes no real skill...
But if you want to take it that way, go ahead...as I would be putting down about 3/4 of this FI forum....


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_
I have to disagree with that last statement. Unless you have actually been to the track and driven down the 1320 you can't make that assumption.

You kidding me? What I was saying is that in Nascar you have professionals that know what they are doing (oh, and those spotters help out as well)...
At the 1/4 you have idiots there as well as the guys that know what they are doing.
And while I haven't raced down the 1/4 I've been there WAYYY TOO MANY TIMES. 
You don't think I'm a complete idiot, do you? Or are you just assuming that?


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_
Dude im pretty sure took the short bus to school...im not sayin people cant drive and im not saying anything bad about the software.. all i have been doing is asking a serious question comparing high power c2 cars to other cars i.e. GTR guys..

The answer to your question has been said several times already, if you can't get it through your head by now you never will









_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_
If i didnt work 60 hours a week and had a track within a few hours of my house i would go... but that has nothing to do with the thread... Its great you have a 400+ hp car that runs high 12.8s.. congrats.. Now we all know your times and everything its pointless for you to post anymore
Thank you for the people that understand my question

if you did work less then 60 hours and you did have a track within a few hours from your house you would come up with another reason why you never raced either one of your 3 turbo cars








Sounds to me like your making excuses because your skurd


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

not calling you an idiot but the way you worded that statement left it very open for interpretation. what you should have said was "EVERYONE in Nascar is a good driver, unlike like at the drag strip where you have good drivers and bad drivers." or something like that.
its semantics but it makes a difference. no harm no foul.


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

And to the haters, If I want to go drag racing ,we have a club car .
89 golf w/ a turbo'd aba. runs mid 11's,and havent hit the spray cuz we dont have a cage in it.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Hah!!!! I'm saying that ANYBODY can get onto a track. I'm NOT saying that it takes no real skill. Sorry buddy, but I wasn't saying that it takes no real skill...
But if you want to take it that way, go ahead...as I would be putting down about 3/4 of this FI forum....









No no, I was just making sure. I was like why would he be saying it takes no skill in these forums?







But I figured you meant it that way because I know how they let anybody on the track. I've been to the track here several times over the last few years and I have only had a valid license going in there once or twice. You could be 13 and as long as you drive the car through tech then you are good to go, even if it's a casual looking 9 second monster. It's pretty effed up.










_Modified by Lil red roket at 2:38 PM 11-29-2005_


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (subrosasix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *subrosasix* »_
i knwo people pulling 60ft. better then many people WITH lsd. so lsd is not everything. It just gives that assurance that your tranny wont break when the diff falls apart.
yall neggas need to just learn to drive. if somethign wrong with your setup, step up your game and get on point.

Please don't post in this forum anymore.


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## f0xf0702k1 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

i lol at the people who are always like "omg i dont race my car because it will break" seriously thats so lame, i drag'd my 95 glx over 40-50 passes and never hurt a thing (stock trans), not even a blown cv boot! just learn how to DRIVE








i dunno i just dont understand how you can have a powerful car and not race it, whats the point?
how much is c2 software anyway? meh ive got megasquirt coming for probably the same price










_Modified by f0xf0702k1 at 2:33 PM 11-29-2005_


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## jackyltardvaark (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (veedub11)*

i love this thread. they only way to settle this is a old fashioned thumb war








the winner gets good 1/4 mile times for life and will never be called a bad driver on the strip
loser gets made fun of for life and getting a sack of pennies to the nuts


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*

This thread is [email protected]!


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f0xf0702k1* »_i lol at the people who are always like "omg i dont race my car because it will break" seriously thats so lame, i drag'd my 95 glx over 40-50 passes and never hurt a thing (stock trans), not even a blown cv boot! just learn how to DRIVE








i dunno i just dont understand how you can have a powerful car and not race it, whats the point?
how much is c2 software anyway? meh ive got megasquirt coming for probably the same price









_Modified by f0xf0702k1 at 2:33 PM 11-29-2005_


so that wasnt your trans that we pulled at my house?


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## f0xf0702k1 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*

i broke it on the street!


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f0xf0702k1* »_i lol at the people who are always like "omg i dont race my car because it will break" seriously thats so lame, i drag'd my 95 glx over 40-50 passes and never hurt a thing (stock trans), not even a blown cv boot! just learn how to DRIVE










Yeah, I took my 03' gti to the strip when I had it, probably 50 passes and never really had a problem.
My vr turbo is putting twice that power to the wheels.
That stock transmission that was so unbreakable in your sub 200hp jetta doesn't fair so well against double the hp and a clutch that can hold power. Drag radials or slicks that add the required grip for more power also put more strain on the drivetrain.


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## f0xf0702k1 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i ran drag radials also *shrug*


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*

I did too towards the end with my 03' Gti. And the axles ended up going on me, just not AT the track.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (mikebobelak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikebobelak* »_
89 golf w/ a turbo'd aba. runs mid 11's,and havent hit the spray cuz we dont have a cage in it.


I'm calling bullisht until you post your "slips".
HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f0xf0702k1* »_i lol at the people who are always like "omg i dont race my car because it will break" _Modified by f0xf0702k1 at 2:33 PM 11-29-2005_

I said that.








So, I guess I'm lame. 
Ok, you live in West Chester. I got your IM.








Oh, and just so you know where I'm coming from....isht keeps breaking on my car and that's w/o me beating the isht out of it (well, until just recently where I started beatin' hard







).
So, it's a matter of personal "luck" or belief...it all has to do with our experiences man.
If that's lame, then call it lame.
But I've heard all sorts of stories about crap breaking on the track.


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## jackyltardvaark (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*

*FIGHT SISSYS FIGHT*


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Gotta resize those pics....dude.
Gonna ruin this terrific thread.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

my stock trans had well over 200 passes on it all motor and with n2o with not a single problem. Only part I EVER broke at the track was a PP strap while running slicks.


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## newSWARTZ (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

this thread is wonderfully entertaining


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
I said that.








So, I guess I'm lame. 
Ok, you live in West Chester. I got your IM.








Oh, and just so you know where I'm coming from....isht keeps breaking on my car and that's w/o me beating the isht out of it (well, until just recently where I started beatin' hard







).
So, it's a matter of personal "luck" or belief...it all has to do with our experiences man.
If that's lame, then call it lame.
But I've heard all sorts of stories about crap breaking on the track.


driving the car exactly the same in both situations you have a MUCH higher chance of breaking something on the street then on the track.


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## jackyltardvaark (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Gotta resize those pics....dude.
Gonna ruin this terrific thread.


nah this thread only gets huge pics from now 
its funnier that way


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## _Scirocco20v (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (nycvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nycvr6* »_This thread is [email protected]!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_
driving the car exactly the same in both situations you have a MUCH higher chance of breaking something on the street then on the track.

That's very scientific of you.








The point I'm trying to make is that nobody will EVER drive their car the same on the street as on the track.
On the track you drive it harder (I don't care what anybody says) b/c you are trying your hardest to to beat your last ET, trap, etc...
And if you aren't...well then why does everybody post their times? 
That's the entire point (I mean, for the most part).
I mean, I get dizzy looking at some guys' sigs.


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## vdub speed (Dec 26, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

I drive my car the exact same way on the track as i do on the street if i am racing somebody.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_my stock trans had well over 200 passes on it all motor and with n2o with not a single problem. Only part I EVER broke at the track was a PP strap while running slicks.


That's because you launch like my mama.


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## YuenglingMike67 (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*

talk to bceurotrash... he has a kinetic stgI kit @ 6psi
he runs 12.55's with a diff and slicks in an MKII gti http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (YuenglingMike67)*

Its a shame a bunch of douche bags have to be corny..
Thanks to anyone that had a solid answer..


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## f0xf0702k1 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*

what'd you expect? its obvious the cars have the power but can't hook up... you seriously think my supercharged mk2 vr is good for 14.0's?


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## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f0xf0702k1* »_what'd you expect? its obvious the cars have the power but can't hook up... you seriously think my supercharged mk2 vr is good for 14.0's?

Could very well be...i know a few sc cars on atp software runnin low 13s and high 12s
Dont tell me your puttin out soooo much power to not hook up..
So ill just assume from your times you cant drive for crap
Thank You


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## _Scirocco20v (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f0xf0702k1* »_what'd you expect? its obvious the cars have the power but can't hook up... you seriously think my supercharged mk2 vr is good for 14.0's?


A supercharged mk2 vr should be faster than a 103mph trap. My Mk1 w/ a 20v swap and 7psi put down 101mph trap speeds at about 165whp. My car was 2280 with me in it. I know your car cant be but 200-300lbs heavier but with 90 whp more you should have 106-109mph traps easy.


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## VRBTCHCAR (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (_Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Scirocco20v* »_

A supercharged mk2 vr should be faster than a 103mph trap. My Mk1 w/ a 20v swap and 7psi put down 101mph trap speeds at about 165whp. My car was 2280 with me in it. I know your car cant be but 200-300lbs heavier but with 90 whp more you should have 106-109mph traps easy.

As most of the cars with c2 software run.. Even if you have bad traction you should trap higher


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## jackyltardvaark (May 30, 2005)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*

i love $HIT talking when noone here has good times to back up either side of the arguement.
no offense to most of you but go hang out in some import forums if your going to argue that your car can go faster than than 14s.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'm in the middle of a project where I will eliminate myself as the driver.
It's a little remote-control gadget. This will help me lower my ET time as I'm instantly cutting out 205lbs.
I can't wait until I take it to the track and see what it can do.
Hopefully I'll break 11's on street tires, sunoco 86 octane, and no lsd.
Then I'll post it.


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## f0xf0702k1 (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (VRBTCHCAR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRBTCHCAR* »_
Could very well be...i know a few sc cars on atp software runnin low 13s and high 12s
Dont tell me your puttin out soooo much power to not hook up..
So ill just assume from your times you cant drive for crap
Thank You









195/55/15 KELLY's (walmart tires) dont give me traction until 3rd gear, and no i cant drive, my last car only ran times that others werent close to with the same mods









i have no doubt's my car will trap higher, i just wanted to get a baseline number before winter with full interior 3/4 tank of gas, etc. so i dont need to be educated thanks.


_Modified by f0xf0702k1 at 8:05 AM 11-30-2005_


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (f0xf0702k1)*

Eric this guy is a tool...







he has no clue about drag racing, don't even waste your time responding to his BS.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Chris Barnes Time Slip*

Chris Barnes emailed me this time slip and asked that I post it for him.


----------

