# Hydrogen Genarator



## Smartone07 (Aug 26, 2008)

I've seen adds that sell hydrogen generators that are universal and will work with any car, they claim to double even tripple your gas miliage.
How effective are these and would i be dooming my jetta by installing one?


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## greggearhead (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (Smartone07)*

First of all - I am not a chemist, but I talked to some about this recently and they laughed. 
Think about it this way - you can't create more energy than what you start with, really. Otherwise, perpetual motion machines would be pretty common I think. 
Anyway, you take gasoline with "X" energy, and burn it in an engine to produce 30% of X energy to move the car. We use a bit of that, say 10hp to drive the alternator to make electricity to charge the battery and run lights etc. 
OK - now, lets use a bunch of juice to make HHO/Brown's gas - that takes, say 7hp (all numbers arbitrary). We take that gas, and plumb it back into the intake to be burned. We get a power increase of 5hp. Net profit/loss power = MINUS 2hp. 
That's the crux of it as I understand it. There was an article in The Gazette recently, quoting the professor of chemistry at the Air Force Academy saying this much better. 
If it was that easy to get such great mileage, wouldn't one of the OEMs pick up on it to sell a bunch mroe cars than another OEM?


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## ramdmc (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (greggearhead)*

I haven't tried it myself, but have seen some of the diesel guys running the hydrogen gens on their rigs and say they get an increase of 20-30% fuel mileage. The principle of the system is to capitalize on the energy your alternator is converting to electricity, which with most rides (unless your running a monster stereo or lights) you'll likely saturate the batteries storage capacity.
I'm concerned about the safety of such a system, I mean you're generating hydrogen and oxygen through electrolysis, two gases which can become lethal at the right proportions in the presence of an ignition source.
Shows some promise, just some safety concerns.
GL on that one.
RC


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## sztek (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (ramdmc)*

if you use it up right away it shouldnt be dangerous at all. i went to auto elect o2 gen school for the navy subs. they do call thier machine "the bomb" but its much different than what youre talking about. this thing puts out! its high press and a significant amount of gas remains in the sys even when off. bad stuff. but how many subs explode? what you can do is make something as big as a nalgene bottle with 2 electrodes and feed the output straight into the intake. you dont even have to seperate the gasses like the navy does. the car burns both h2 and o2. the only input to the bottle would be dist water. just rig it so the machine turns off when the cars off. the only thing stopping me from doing this is when h2 and o2 combine like that they produce h2o which is now either in your engine or exhaust.


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## sztek (Sep 9, 2008)

i made a mistake. dist water isnt electrically conductive enough. you must add chem to ionize the water. koh is suggested in that it theoretically never gets used up. otherwise a large potential would need to be used. the concern also in this case is the materials used and how the ionizing chemical effects them


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## jefswat (Jun 10, 2008)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (greggearhead)*


_Quote, originally posted by *greggearhead* »_
Think about it this way - you can't create more energy than what you start with, really. Otherwise, perpetual motion machines would be pretty common I think. 
Anyway, you take gasoline with "X" energy, and burn it in an engine to produce 30% of X energy to move the car. We use a bit of that, say 10hp to drive the alternator to make electricity to charge the battery and run lights etc. 
OK - now, lets use a bunch of juice to make HHO/Brown's gas - that takes, say 7hp (all numbers arbitrary). We take that gas, and plumb it back into the intake to be burned. We get a power increase of 5hp. Net profit/loss power = MINUS 2hp.

The point of it is that it helps the gasoling burn better. so instead of getting 30% of the energy from the burnt gas you get 31% or whatever the number is. So really you don't get anymore energy than you start with. You are using more of what you would have otherwise wasted through heat or unburnt gasoline. I thought that too so i went to the website and actually looked. I don't recall if it helps more of the gas burn or how it works exactly. But you aren't getting energy from no where.
-Thats what the website for it says. Take it for what its worth. I'm just tired of seeing people argueing about it-


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## greggearhead (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (jefswat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jefswat* »_
I don't recall if it helps more of the gas burn or how it works exactly. But you aren't getting energy from no where.
-Thats what the website for it says. Take it for what its worth. 

That *is* the point in my opinion. You have visited one of the many sites, and still don't know how it works exactly - the people selling it likely have no idea what exactly is going on with it, but they can sell it and make money, so they are. Makes me think of "tornado" intake tubulators.








Most people know I am a water and water-methanol injection proponent, and that can actually increase engine efficiency - making more power from the same amount of fuel (increase in brake torque efficiency) because of a denser air charge and suppressing detonation, and using some of the waste heat of combustion to produce steam, and use that steam expansion to push down on the piston (instead of sending more heat into the cylinder walls and coolant system).
Where are the government and university studies about auxiliary Brown's gas injection? If there was a possibility of the increases they quote as fact, there would at least be studies about it, determining whether to proceed or not.


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## Axeman (May 30, 2005)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (Smartone07)*

i've bean lookin at those HHO, brown's gas, generators for a while now too. most of the setups i've seen for sale are scary looking pvc ore mason jar things. but then there is the PICC which makes the whole thing look very appealing, if it wasn't so costly.... anyway i'm sure you could rig up a safe system to add a hydrogen generator. after watching the google videos of ppl with these things installed i think its something anyone can try pretty easy. 
i think any electrical issues can be solved with a more powerful alternator. if your car doesn't have ac the same model with ac likely has a more powerful alternator. 
i'm thinkin one of those single stage under counter water filter containers would be easy to convert and mount for this application and i had already planed on upgrading my alternator for my stereo add-ons.
i think this is a cheap fuel saver and want to set one up myself at some point.


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## 4ePikanini (Aug 29, 2007)

i did advanced chemics at school and handled this as a project.
Point is : 
it takes more energy to split h2o into hydrogen and oxygen than what you get out by burning them. Thats a fact.
Wether you use those to get better efficiency out of your petrol is another story.


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## HHOgadgetman (Oct 29, 2008)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (greggearhead)*

THere is one factor that you're not considering: making the fuel you ARE using more efficient.
Adding Hydrogen to your fuel stream is like throwing gasoline on a brush fire!
If you want to PM me, I will answer all questions to the best of my ability.
I am [email protected]
I have built thirteen systems so far and am getting 47% more MPG right now with greatly reduced emissions.
If you're building a unit, do it! It's worth it!


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## ramdmc (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: Hydrogen Genarator (HHOgadgetman)*

And if you're driving a LR Disco, that's still 11 MPG


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## 4ePikanini (Aug 29, 2007)

how is it that if it is that more efficient, why dont manufacturers get subsidised to incorporate this into their cars in order to help stop "global warming"
If it was that good then everybody will do it and its a win win situation for everybody.


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