# Shell Rotella T6 5w40 in winter



## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

I live in northern Alberta, we can see -45*C on the coldest of days in the mid-winter, I will usually have a work truck to beat on in these times but will need to drive my A4 on the weekends, I just did an oil change and switched from Motul to Shell T6... i'm wondering what kind of visc this oil is at in very low temp start ups.

I tried looking around, I saw some comparison to Mobil 1 0w40 and the Mobil being the better for cold starts, the T6 jug says "Equal to a conventional 15w40" I was concerned this stuff will be wayyy too thick for extreme cold starts.

I don't need the usual 3-4 oil forum peeps to banter back and forth on this, just looking for real info on oils for extreme cold climate.


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## pipo (Oct 15, 1999)

You'll be much better off during the winter with the M1 0W-40. Any manufacturer approved 0W-XX oil will be better for cold starts than the T6, especially in frigid temperatures.


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## Super Hans (May 27, 2011)

Shot at 2011-08-26


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*what are you saying*



Super Hans said:


> Shot at 2011-08-26


there's no rotela or m1 0w-40 on your pretty chart.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Jay-Bee said:


> I live in northern Alberta, we can see -45*C on the coldest of days in the mid-winter, I will usually have a work truck to beat on in these times but will need to drive my A4 on the weekends, I just did an oil change and switched from Motul to Shell T6... i'm wondering what kind of visc this oil is at in very low temp start ups.
> 
> I tried looking around, I saw some comparison to Mobil 1 0w40 and the Mobil being the better for cold starts, the T6 jug says "Equal to a conventional 15w40" I was concerned this stuff will be wayyy too thick for extreme cold starts.
> 
> I don't need the usual 3-4 oil forum peeps to banter back and forth on this, just looking for real info on oils for extreme cold climate.


For product markets... Mobil 1 0w40 isn't a Heavy Duty Diesel Oil focused like the Rotella T6. This is why Rotella T6, as well as Mobil Delvac 1 makes their comparisons against conventional 15w40.

Not everyone lists the same information, and your standard viscosity measurements are not tested at extreme cold conditions.

At the extreme -45°C temperatures, one of the concerns is wax crystallization--- you see this issue pop up on diesel fuels (aka gelling). Having a PAO basestock (M1 0w40 or Delvac 1 5w40) versus a group III basestock (T6) minimizes that concern. There are additives that can be used for Group III basestocks that mitigates that issue.

IMO, you might want to compare "Pour Point" (ASTM D97) Temperature is probably one of the key things to look at. M1 0w40 would probably be a better choice, as the pour point is at -54°C vs. -42° (T6).


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## pipo (Oct 15, 1999)

BsickPassat said:


> For product markets... Mobil 1 0w40 isn't a Heavy Duty Diesel Oil focused like the Rotella T6. This is why Rotella T6, as well as Mobil Delvac 1 makes their comparisons against conventional 15w40.
> 
> Not everyone lists the same information, and your standard viscosity measurements are not tested at extreme cold conditions.
> 
> ...


Nicely explained. I read elsewhere that a good way to judge the cold starting capability of an oil is to divide the HTHS viscosity by the dynamic viscosity at 150C. I can't begin to explain why this works, but short of getting actual viscosity measurements at sub-freezing temps, this was judged to be a fairly accurate methodology by a couple of the "oil professors" on BITOG.

I believe that dparm was the poster, and he included a spreadsheet showing the results for a bunch of oils. I'll see if I can track it down when I have more time.

This may be more information than we really need, but it was pretty clear that the appropriate 0w-xx oils are generally best for cold starts.


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## Super Hans (May 27, 2011)

gmikel said:


> there's no rotela or m1 0w-40 on your pretty chart.



Too stupid to make your own chart?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

pipo said:


> Nicely explained. I read elsewhere that a good way to judge the cold starting capability of an oil is to divide the HTHS viscosity by the dynamic viscosity at 150C. I can't begin to explain why this works, but short of getting actual viscosity measurements at sub-freezing temps, this was judged to be a fairly accurate methodology by a couple of the "oil professors" on BITOG.
> 
> I believe that dparm was the poster, and he included a spreadsheet showing the results for a bunch of oils. I'll see if I can track it down when I have more time.
> 
> This may be more information than we really need, but it was pretty clear that the appropriate 0w-xx oils are generally best for cold starts.


There is another ASTM test, that uses a Cold Cranking Simulator, that tests down to -30°F which also gives a viscosity measurement, however, there is no relationship with cold "pumping" capability (even says so in the ASTM spec)


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## pipo (Oct 15, 1999)

I remember reading about this in one of the white papers. The danger of low temperature cranking capability, even though in the abstract it sounds like a good thing, is that if the oil is not also pumpable at that temp, engine damage may result. That's why, if I recall this correctly (and please excuse my lack of technical knowledge on this), the ASTM measures cold pour at a lower temperature than cold crank: to ensure - to the extent that these measures do so - that the oil will pump if the engine cranks.


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## hollinger13 (Mar 18, 2011)

I also live in Alberta. I run T6 year round in my jetta tdi with no problems due to cold starts. We also run it in all our equipment at work with no issues.


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## rickjaguar (Apr 23, 2009)

I MUST presume that at those temps you're keeping your car plugged in when not in use. If so, I don't see how this could be an issue.. tho this Rotella is "thicker" than other 5W40s. If it doesn't sit well with you, try out the Mobil1 0W40.. or the Castrol 0W30.
I've done 3 OCIs with this T6 Rotella; LOVE it!


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*use what works*

 there are very few name brand products that are sub par. use something close to specs and smile.


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## rdezsofi (Sep 21, 2010)

-45 C ?????? 
1. Do not attempt to start the car.
2. Stay in the house.
3. Start drinking the beer you stocked up on during the summer months.
4. Spend the winter reading the Vortex and wait for warmer weather.

Note: With even the best oil, if you're not plugged in, you're talking some extreme engine wear until it starts to warm up.


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## JCousteau (Aug 1, 2008)

NY/NJ/CT isn't Alberta, but I've always used T6 5W-40 all year round in my Audi/VW (and other) cars. No problem at all on cold starts in sub-0F weather.

Best,


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Maybe, before going on about how great 5w-40 is in the cold, you should try to compare it to something else, like 5w-30 which is half as thick in cold. If you haven't tried various oils, you really don't know which is actually "good", do you?


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*he's back*

with a new name


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

You should be using a 0W Synthetic ..period. 0W-30 or even 0W-20. IMHO of course...

The API specification pour point is the temperature at which the oil * turns into a gel*. The actual temperature that an oil turns into a liquid, capable of being pumped through an engine, is usually around 10 F warmer than the API specification pour point. Also referred to as " Crank point " as mentioned by other members. ( Source's Delvac, Red Line, Amsoil, Bob is the Oil Guy ).

Typical 5w/40 synthetic oils have an API rated pour point of -40c to -45c...so guess what? You oil pump is trying to pump a semi solidified gel through your engine. That ain't gonna work.

You want a Poly-Ester based oil as previously mentioned. That means a true synthetic such as Red-Line or Amsoil Signature series. Some European oils also meet these requirements.. but are hard to find. 

Spec sheets on Red-Line 0w-20 and . Note the API pour point ( more correctly should be called "GEL Point" ) -60c or -76f. Remember to add 10 f to get to a point where that oild can actually flow. That's -66f..so well within our required parameters:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=124&pcid=21

Redline 0w-30 specs ( Meets VW 503.00 and 503.001 requirements ) Same low temperature pour points as 0W-20, but a bit more high temperature range:

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=125&pcid=21

Amsoil Signature 0W-20 specs:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/asm.aspx

Amsoil Signature 0w-30 specs:

http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/azo.aspx


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

BTW...you may get some people that say " Well my Freightliner or D9-Cat starts fine with 5W40 Synthetic T6 or Delvo at -45c. Bearing clearances and machining clearances on big equipment diesels are HUGE compared to import cars. They always use block heaters ( and/or Wabsto pre-heaters ) and the oil pumps on these rigs CAN pump molasses through an engine. 

Ain't gonna happen on a car engine. Northern Alberta in the Winter? Either keep your car in a heated garage or Block Heater + Battery heater + the best damned 0W synthetic oil that you can find = semi-happy Audi.

Now...think about the diff oil and tranny oil ( Yes...even automatics!! )

Better yet... Move the FRAK outa there!! ( yeah..I know the Oil Sands and Gold Mines pay huge money, but LORDY THAT's COLD!! )


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

0w-40 is about the same as 5w-30 in cold.

5w-40 is about the same as 10w-30, in cold, until you are near 0f, then 5w-40 is thinner, but 5w-30 beats it by a mile.

2nd to what chickenman said.


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

Well we haven't had a real cold snap yet, and I don't drive my car often in the winter.

VW/Audi hasn't had "Block heaters" in ages, only thing offered is the oil pan heater which I admit will help. I might install one of those generic in line coolant heaters.

Good info from Chickenman35

The GC 0w30 comes up once in a while on sale at Walmart, i'll watch for it and grab a jug.

I have noticed my car is "running better" with the Rotella, and i have not had to top it off at all compared to running Motul 5w40 i had to add quite a bit over my OCI.


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