# I am a mega-moron



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

This is my first post in this neck of the woods.

I drive a Mk2 golf, currently It has a 1.8: 8V motor. This engine has been plagued with leaks, terrible idle and lack of "get up and go" its time for something else. Ive been trying to figure out what to do for a swap since I bought the car. Thoughts of Vr6, 16V, and 1.9TDI have been blasting through my head non stop for many months but I have come to a solution. The diesel is out due to me not wanting to have to go through re-registration under a new fuel type. and Vr6 is out due to weight and other various turn off's. This leaves me with the 16V. and here is what I want to do:

I want to get the head rebuilt, TT sport cams, race land header, adjustable cam gear, lightweight int, shaft gear, serpentine belt swap ect. This brought me to my next hurdle engine managment. CIS, CIS-E, k-jet what ever you call it I think its a terrible system so it was out. Then i though about running it off the stock digi2 ECU however i soon remembered my issues with bad idle and how restrictive the AFM is in this system, This brought me to digi 1 which is hard to find especially for a good price in my area. Finally I decided megasquirt would be the way to go as it would offer me the most tuning options for my buck and I enjoy assembling electronics so it would be a great way to get some more experiance and have fun while I am doing it.

Now my research into megasquirt has not been all that fruitful This is what I have learned from reading various forums and websites deicated on the topic.

Sensors:

IAT (intake air temp) this goes before the throttle body in direct air flow.
CTS (coolant temp sensor) this is a GMC sensor and will require me to get a new coolant flange or an adapter made
TPS (throttle positioning sensor) this tells megasquirt approximatly how much throttle i am using and turns the fuel pump on or off depending on this value. I need a TB from an auto passat
02 sensor: I need a three wire
MAP sensor this tells the ECU what the pressure in the vacuum is and is used instead of a maf

Injectors: I will wire up the #1&2 together and the 3&4 together running a 5 amp fuse in between
Fast idle solenoid: this creates a controlled vacum leak in the system to increase the idle speed in cold weather. I should have this going from a point in the intake tube before the TB to a point after in the intake manifold(which is under vacuum) or i could put a filter on the end of a solenoid instead of in the intake tube.

This is where My knowledge ends (I suck at research for those who havent noticed) I need to control the spark on the 16V. what is the best way to do this? Does it tie into the ECU at all? is there any wiring diragrams available for my particular set up?

EDIT: this is the kit i am buying

thanks in advance

-D. steelseace:


----------



## The Python (Aug 1, 2007)

Looks like a good list to start with. I, too, am just learning MS and am gathering parts and knowledge.
The spark options are (as I have found, but not limited to):
- use distributor for a hall signal to the MS board and it will fire the stock coil with the advance or retard that you specify
- use distibutor for hall signal to fire one of two coils, each of which controls two cylinders ( wasted spark). I think drivers are necessary for this.
- use a vr signal from an added (16v does not have one) trigger wheel, like an EDIS setup or ABA to signal the MS and it will in turn fire one of the coils. 

Correct me if I am wrong please. :thumbup:


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

As far as Sensors go....

IAT- MUST have one. On N/A cars I generally stick a push-in style GM open element sensor. They can be found on any GM vehicle mid 90's to mid 2000's

CTS- (coolant temp) You can use a factory VW temp sensor you just have to recalibrate the values in MS ( very easy with MS2 or 2)

TPS- Nice but not a must have. You can use the MAP sensor for acceleration enrichment. the only thing you'll really lose is overrun fuel cut.

O2 Sensor- A wide band is best for tuning but you can use a narrow band. Any style will work but a 3 or 4 wire works best.

MAP Sensor- Comes with the Megasquirt and is on the mainboard. All you need is a vaccum line from the manifold vaccum to the sensor.

Injectors- You can wire them 1&2 , 3&4 or as I prefer 1&4, 2&3. The fuse is needed on the POWER side of the injector. (MS grounds the injector)

Fast Idle Solenoid- works but I prefer a real idle valve. The 2 wire valve from an OBD1 ABA or VR6 works well but MS needs to be modded to control it.

Spark- The easiest thing to do an a 16V would be this: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Y!)-Mods-for-MS-V3-and-VW-Hall-Sender-Trigger. When you run an MS you can throw the factory ECU in the trash where it belongs :laugh:.


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Thanks!
But i have one question: what is a VR imput?:banghead:


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Ajaxpowder said:


> Thanks!
> But i have one question: what is a VR imput?:banghead:


Variable Reluctor. It's a toothed wheel and magnetic pickup assembly. VW uses this setup with a 60-2 tooth wheel on ABAs and newer 4 cylinders and all VR6s. It's very very accurate. 

If you are referring to the link I included in my post the OP (Need_a_VR6) has dicovered that you can send the hall signal from a VW distributor to the VR conditioning circuits on an MS and get a good tach input without having to modify anything.


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Prof315 said:


> Variable Reluctor. It's a toothed wheel and magnetic pickup assembly. VW uses this setup with a 60-2 tooth wheel on ABAs and newer 4 cylinders and all VR6s. It's very very accurate.
> 
> If you are referring to the link I included in my post the OP (Need_a_VR6) has dicovered that you can send the hall signal from a VW distributor to the VR conditioning circuits on an MS and get a good tach input without having to modify anything.


 Beautiful! thank you very much!

EDIT: So this means I am plugging into the hall sender on the dist. Then sending the brown wire to ground, green goes to the ECU at pin 24, and i supply the hall sender power from the TPS VREF?

Next stupid question: what is a TPS VREF? TPS = throttle position sensore VREF =?????????


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Ajaxpowder said:


> Beautiful! thank you very much!
> 
> EDIT: So this means I am plugging into the hall sender on the dist. Then sending the brown wire to ground, green goes to the ECU at pin 24, and i supply the hall sender power from the TPS VREF?
> 
> Next stupid question: what is a TPS VREF? TPS = throttle position sensore VREF =?????????


VREF = 5V reference. It's a 5V output from the MS that is normally hooked up to a throttle position sensor. It can be shared if you had a TPS, but you don't so just hook it straight to the dizzy. It's Pin 27 on the MS DB37 (connector).


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Just drafting up my wiring schematic and I have run into a few nonconformities: Megasquirt manual says Vref is pin 26 not pin 27. Green from hall sender goes to pin 24 which, Should go to the coil?

Otherwise this is what i have:
1. Not used
2. not used
3.not used
4.not used
5.not used
6.not used
7.Ground
8.ground
9.ground
10.ground
11.ground
12.not used
13."
14."
15."
16."
17."
18."
19."
20.To IAT sensor
21.To Coolant temp sensor
22.Throttle position sensor
23.To heated oxygen sensor
24. TO - terminal on coil or from hall sender
25.Maybe VREF?
26.Vref: to throttle position sensor and to hall sendor
27.not used
28.from main relay terminal 87/too injectors 1-4, & 2-3
29.not used
30.not used 
31.not used
32.to injector 1&4
33."
34.To injector 2&3
35."
36. not used
37. to fuel pump relay terminal 83


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

could any one tell me how to connect the coil to the MS?


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Here for a 16v Coolant Sensor, no adapters needed. Threads right into the hole where the stock white sensor is/was









They come off the mid 90's Saturns, and come with a 1-wire pigtail. Currently using one on my car, no problem.


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Here for a 16v Coolant Sensor, no adapters needed. Threads right into the hole where the stock white sensor is/was
> 
> 
> 
> ...


sweet! thanks allot dude!:thumbup:

im still unsure with the coil and spark dealio


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Here is a good write up from Paul (need_a_vr6) to use a hall sender with the v3 board and minimal mods.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Y!)-Mods-for-MS-V3-and-VW-Hall-Sender-Trigger


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Dave926 said:


> Here is a good write up from Paul (need_a_vr6) to use a hall sender with the v3 board and minimal mods.
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Y!)-Mods-for-MS-V3-and-VW-Hall-Sender-Trigger


 Read that! figured out how the hall sender will go into megasquirt but don't know how MS goes to the coil

You have all been a great help!


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

If you want to use a Bosch Module.
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#bosch

OR

Direct Coil Control
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms1extra/MS_Extra_Ignition_Hardware_Manual.htm#singlecoil


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

So for direct control:
Pin 36 to negitive terminal on the coil go from the 12V supply line after the ignition switch before the relays?


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Ajaxpowder said:


> So for direct control:
> Pin 36 to negitive terminal on the coil go from the 12V supply line after the ignition switch before the relays?


Yeah. Here is the current recommended wiring diagram for theV3.0/V3.57 mainboard. I know it says MS3 but it will also apply to MS1/MS2 especially running Extra firmware (the only way to go).


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Yes, and I do recommend putting the coil on fuel pump relay output power rather then key switch on *especially* when direct driving the coil.


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Is there any specific type of coil I need or will the stock one work?

updated list for pin out:
1. Not used
2. not used
3.not used
4.not used
5.not used
6.not used
7.Ground
8.ground
9.ground
10.ground
11.ground
12.not used
13."
14."
15.Ground
16.not used
17."
18."
19."
20.To IAT sensor
21.To Coolant temp sensor
22.Throttle position sensor
23.To heated oxygen sensor
24.from hall sender
25.
26.Vref: to throttle position sensor and to hall sendor
27.not used
28.from main relay terminal 87/too injectors 1-4, & 2-3
29.not used
30.not used 
31.not used
32.to injector 1&4
33."
34.To injector 2&3
35."
36. Ground
37. to fuel pump relay terminal 8

Does this seem correct?

Also is there anywhere I could find a pinout list?


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

I just noticed my link to the most current DB37 suggested wiring didn't show up so lets try again.

http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/hardware.html#wiring

The only big thing I notice that's wrong is pin 36. That would go to coil negative IF you are controlling spark.

Pin 24 is the tach signal INTO MS. If you hook coil negative to it then you can't have spark control. (So hook it up to the hall sensor signal wire).


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I can confirm after being zapped a few times the msd blaster 2 coil puts out way more juice than a stock one. Just make the sure the coil is mounted up and down, not side ways like stock. Plus a new one is only 40 bucks.


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

You guys have been great!
few last things:
1. Do i r do i not have pin 36 running to the negitive side on the coil? (i fixed my issue with pin 24)
2. is there anything im missing to build my EFI

unassembled ms-II
Bosch bip373
wiring harness
blaster 2 coil
fuse board ( must hold 6 blade fuses)

does this sound about right?


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Ajaxpowder said:


> You guys have been great!
> few last things:
> 1. Do i r do i not have pin 36 running to the negitive side on the coil? (i fixed my issue with pin 24)
> 2. is there anything im missing to build my EFI
> ...


Yes pin 36 will connect to the coil - . 

No real need for the fuse block. Your car being a 92 has a CE2 fuse and relay panel from the factory. You should be able to get all of the power you need from it. Got a bently?


----------



## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Prof315 said:


> Yes pin 36 will connect to the coil - .
> 
> No real need for the fuse block. Your car being a 92 has a CE2 fuse and relay panel from the factory. You should be able to get all of the power you need from it. Got a bently?


I do have a bently! I was going tp use the relays in the fuse pannel from the stock system, I am not 100% sure if i will have enough fuses removed after i tear out the old ECU. I will have to have a look at my bentley and car when i get home


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I just run all out of the CE2 fuseblock as well. You can add fuses/relays but I think it adds unneeded complexity.


----------

