# 2.5s on standalone management



## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

I know Andre (Audi4U) has put the 2.5 on 034 standalone with great success. Was wondering if anyone else has. I'm currently looking really hard at putting my c2 stg 2 turbo rabbit on AEM as I've recently completed schooling for performance automotive and EFI tuning and I've been presented the opportunity to work for the only local certified AEM dealer. I'm figuring this as a chance to build some experience and some reputation. I also am going this route because I did the majority of my EFI training on AEM Pro and Hondata S manager with the latter obviously not being an option. So basically I'm just wondering who all out there has a 2.5 on any standalone and any advice they have on any headaches they had during installation. My gameplan is to develop a jumper harness and potentially market it packaged with a basic startup map.


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## BluMagic (Apr 9, 2008)

i'm sorry i have no answer for you. 

but if you are that good at wiring. you should make MiL spec harnesses that are longer so we can tuck some wires away. :thumbup:


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## ~kInG~ (Jun 8, 2005)

I think Andre is the only one...

there's someone on the hybrid/swap forum who is doing a 2.5T on a mk3 but I haven't read what he is going to do regarding engine management....


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

AEM is a good box to use.

Basically:
Get the race box.
You'll be on your own in terms of wring it up correctly.

Don't forget cam phase control:
intake only on '05-'07 motor
intake and exhaust on '08-up

losing cam phase control is typically why keeping the stock ecu wins every time.

-Jeffrey Atwood


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

thanks for the advice Jeff. I'll most likely be sticking with your tunes on the factory ECM for street use until I'm comfortable and confident I'm taking full advantage of the motor. I'd like to dig into working with the bosch management eventually but getting my bearings on a standalone first seems like a good idea.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

and I just asked and AEM can control cam Phasing


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

The 2.5 has a 4 window unevenly spaced cam rotor. The aem needs a one window rotor. Its possible if you modify the cam.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

thanks Andre , I'll spend the next few days figuring out how I'm gonna have to make this work 

Also Jeff if I do wind up modifying the cam for a 1 window rotor would you be able to make the factory ECM work on it


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> thanks Andre , I'll spend the next few days figuring out how I'm gonna have to make this work
> 
> Also Jeff if I do wind up modifying the cam for a 1 window rotor would you be able to make the factory ECM work on it



I know this question was directed to Jeff, I would say It would be easier to have a stock windowed cam and a modified cam. 

I would suspect it would take a ton of coding to modify the sync on an oem ecu.


The other thing I thought about(but havent tested), Is to get an exhaust cam and sensor from an 09 motor. It should have a 4 windowed sensor that is not used by our ecus. That way you could have a 4 window and single window sync running concurrently on the engine.



Also note 034ecus can run waste spark on 5 cylinder engines with out the need for a sync sensor.
I like the aem, ecu please read around. While running or 60-2 crank wheel will work(after you figure how to setup it up) That setup is not supported by aem tech support. 

Andre


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> Also Jeff if I do wind up modifying the cam for a 1 window rotor would you be able to make the factory ECM work on it


Nope.

The ecu needs the OEM flag for cam phase control.

BUT: the OEM ecu will run the engine with out the cam sensor, like when the sensor is ~broken...
Lose cam phase control
May lose other stuff: knock control, sequential injection (5cyl should be able to keep these)

-Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

my car wouldnt run at all with the cam sensor disconnected while on oem ecu.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

All 2.5 5 cylinders have intake cam adjustment only. NEVER on exhaust.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

rustlerdude said:


> All 2.5 5 cylinders have intake cam adjustment only. NEVER on exhaust.


Do all 2.5 use a SAI pump?


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Yes. Except 2.5's produced for mexican vehicles in 2005.5 adn 2006. That may have since changed for them. For for NA market, all 2.5's have pumps.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

what ever happened to this?? 

i'm looking for more and more standalone... 

question: if i were to go with 034 like andre did, and i were to do it piggyback, how hard would the install/wiring be? 

is it as simple as cutting wires and connecting them to the new ECU?? 

are there any downsides to doing piggyback??


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

I kinda shyed away from this for the time being. I'd still love to put a 2.5 on standalone I just don't have the time to put into calibrating everything to an aem ems. When I started this thread I was working in a shop that had a dyno and was an aem distributor but now I'm just doing some odds and ends on the internet for em from halfway across the country. 

As for piggybacking I can only imagine it being somewhat necessary due to canbus unless you're building a gutted out race car. I personally ran out and got a wrx so I could get tuning practice in with cobb before moving on to more challenging stuff. If you've messed with SEMs before doing a 2.5 could be a fun challenge but its definitely not a good idea for your first at home self tuned project.

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

yeah.. piggy back would be the only way i'd do it. 

and no, by no means... i wouldnt be tuning the car. i'd take it to a shop that knows what their doing, they have a couple of cars on standalone... and i'd learn while they tune it. 

but as i have said before, this is plan C. 

plan A is unitronic chipped, plan b is well... who ever else. 

plan C is standalone.


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## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

I have a ttrs motor going in my mk2 golf soon,ive looked for ages for standalone for it and the only 1 i can find that will do everything i want is DTA S80/100.The rs motor has intake and exhaust adjust which the DTA will do.Im not goin to use fsi tho im using port injection.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

Honestly I really want to do a tt-rs swap on like a catted stg 2 setup for my rabbit. Maybe put my boosted bgp in a mkI or a dasher. Been having the itch to build a sleeper dasher as of late.

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## tdirs1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Theres an rs motor on german ebay nearly £9000 does include gbox tho!!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I'll be doing the 2.5L on vipec here pretty shortly, and keeping the cam control + drive by wire. Should be a fun adventure. 

Mostly, I'm pondering how to set it up with just the alternator and the water pump.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

holy crap!!! those ECUS are 10k!!! 

lol... i guess that if i go standalone i'd go around something thats like 2k...max.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

No they are not. In fact the V44's are around your budget, the V88's are the bee's knees but a little bit over that. 

We use a V88 for our dyno simply because it can control anything we ever throw at it without the need to ever replace it with something else. In this case, to do the 5 cyl with proper coil on plug, sequential spark, drive by wire and variable cam timing, you would need the bigger v88. The v44 would run it but you would need to sacrifice some stuff. 

You could do the V88 + a digital dash and some pretty fancy datalogging and still be less then half of that!


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