# Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta



## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

This is probably an odd post but I am currently working on a low budget "sleeper" and have been having fun with unsuspecting sport compacts. After I get all the kinks worked out I'd like to take it to another level. I was considering installing a turbo in the rear of the car just above/forward of the rear axle, catching the exhaust near the factory location and exiting in the factory location. My first question is can you recommend a specific turbo that will work with the factory ECU (like i said this is a budget operation). I can bend and weld all my own piping and I'm willing to put in a head spacer and new injectors. I am also willing to run race gas when turning up the boost and would like to have the ability to run pump gas w/lower boost for street use. Meth injection and n2o assited IC is also an option as long as I can keep the IC small (ie. hidden). Any suggestions? There are lots of turbo's on ebay but not sure what will work for my application (1/8th and 1/4 mile performance). Thanks!


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## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (1badx)*

why do a remote mount, when there is a ton of room under your hood?? Your probably gonna have alot of lag, for the 1/8th mile if you do that... keep your hood shut...and it will still be a sleeper...


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (nubVR)*

i can tell you that this has been covered.
search for "remote turbo" or something like that in the FI forum here.
as for why..
after speaking with many knowledgable turbo folks. the rear mount turbo just isnt as efficient as a normal one.
so, if you are going to go through the trouble. just get a normal setup. you'll be happy you did. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
having said that. there is a guy here in town with a rear turbo in his 95 jetta. it seems to run well. he thinks its fast. i havent ridden in it.


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (jhayesvw)*

Any chance I can get some contact information for the guy with rear mounted turbo? I would really help to see what someone else has done.
Thanks!


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_why do a remote mount, when there is a ton of room under your hood?? Your probably gonna have alot of lag, for the 1/8th mile if you do that... keep your hood shut...and it will still be a sleeper...

Why would there be any lag because of the rear mount location?


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## BLSport (Dec 24, 2005)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (1badx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1badx* »_Any chance I can get some contact information for the guy with rear mounted turbo? I would really help to see what someone else has done.
Thanks!

Here is a link to the thread jhayesvw was referring to...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3294091


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## beercity (Aug 16, 2006)

its kinda like the same theory as adding an air/water IC ... you can gain 3psi w/out turning up the boost controller... its just the fact that theres that much pressure to be lost in all that piping


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## PTown Love (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: (beercity)*

the exhaust has to flow further, and the boost does also...


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## nubVR (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (1badx)*

think of a water hose... empty... squeeze the handle, then turn the faucet on...it doesnt come out instantly... why not??? because its aways away from the pump....similar theory


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_think of a water hose... empty... squeeze the handle, then turn the faucet on...it doesnt come out instantly... why not??? because its aways away from the pump....similar theory

I think that's a poor illustration. I think a better illustration/comparison would be for those of you who live in the city and go to your faucet and turn on the water, the water comes out instantly. However, the "pumps" are most likely many miles away! If you go to your neighbors house closer to the pumps the water pressure is probably identical. I'm not buying the distance of 5-10 feet will of pipe will cause a noticable drop in pressure or lag. If anything the air will cool some before the turbo allowing it to run cooler and allowing the air returning to the engine to cool also. Cooler air is denser air. Throw in a small IC and I really think you may have a really easy to maintain/service system that can quickly be converted back to stock for resale. Plus I will still be able to keep this a sleeper that i can keep the hood and trunk open on!


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (BLSport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BLSport* »_
Here is a link to the thread jhayesvw was referring to...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3294091

Now that's exactly what I was looking for!!!! Thanks a bunch!


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (nubVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nubVR* »_think of a water hose... empty... squeeze the handle, then turn the faucet on...it doesnt come out instantly... why not??? because its aways away from the pump....similar theory


My car used to make 300Hp, but now it's 30 miles away, so it probably only makes like 25Hp.


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## PTown Love (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (TBT-Syncro)*

99% of the people who have VRTs are going to tell you that you have to do it right the first time, and dont buy cheap parts... VR6s arent ment for a junkyard set up, and its probably not a good idea to utilize the stock ECU and stock injectors... Anyone who knows about engines and looks under your hood will know its a FI car if they see the pipe going from ur intake under the car... so it wont be a sleeper when u open ur hood, and if the person doesnt know about engines, and they see the front mount turbo they wont know the differance... My point is that if u open ur hood, any knowledgeable person will know whats up... just save up a little more money for a exhaust manifold, and a chip... or go with the EIP exhaust manifold setup, the location of the turbo is a little lower, and use a big ass "heat shield" to cover it up lol. 
Fifth picture down in the link, if you can fabricate exhaust you can probably fabricate this manifold... 
http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/turbomanifolds.html











_Modified by PTown Love at 11:41 PM 7-12-2007_


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## boosted b5 (Nov 1, 2004)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (PTown Love)*

my friends 87 gti is a VR-T last year at waterfest he had a bunch of people second guessing it because how the piping is ran.. he uses the eurosport cool flow heat sheild, and all the i/c piping runs under the car, through the airbox area under the filter then into the throttle body like stock. pretty slick i think. and the turbo is stuffed way back and covered with a stock looking heatsheild...


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (boosted b5)*

i would like to know how you expect yours charge pipe to cool the air when it is run in the exact same channel as your exhaust piping to the turbo?
lets see. cat is about 1000 degrees, exhaust piping probably close to 600. road temp is not cold either. 
so, run your charge pipe next to your very hot exhaust, under your car, and tell me that it will cool down. NO
also, when you make boost, the hot, pressurized air should be allowed to expand very shortly after leaving the turbo for maximum efficiency. if you run 10 feet of piping, it has a long way to go before it can expand. 
with a normal turbo setup, you may have 4 feet or a little more of piping before it hits either an intercooler or the manifold. 
the kinetic kit stage 1 has literally 2 inches of piping. instant expansion of hot gasses.
you can do your rear mount turbo by all means, but please know that it will not make as much power as a comparable front mounted turbo setup.
your car may still be quick, but for an extra $300 for a manifold, you could proabably pick up 40 or so WHP.


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## PTown Love (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (jhayesvw)*

Just fab this one (eip charges an arm and a left nut) , it bolts on to the existing manifold, so it looks pretty stock because the turbo sits wayyyy lower... Then get a SRI intake manifold, and run ur piping under the engine and into a small hidden intercooler or air to water and into ur SRI... and use a heat shield... That would be dope http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (PTown Love)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PTown Love* »_99% of the people who have VRTs are going to tell you that you have to do it right the first time, and dont buy cheap parts... VR6s arent ment for a junkyard set up, and its probably not a good idea to utilize the stock ECU and stock injectors... Anyone who knows about engines and looks under your hood will know its a FI car if they see the pipe going from ur intake under the car... so it wont be a sleeper when u open ur hood, and if the person doesnt know about engines, and they see the front mount turbo they wont know the differance... My point is that if u open ur hood, any knowledgeable person will know whats up... just save up a little more money for a exhaust manifold, and a chip... or go with the EIP exhaust manifold setup, the location of the turbo is a little lower, and use a big ass "heat shield" to cover it up lol. 
Fifth picture down in the link, if you can fabricate exhaust you can probably fabricate this manifold... 
http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/turbomanifolds.html









_Modified by PTown Love at 11:41 PM 7-12-2007_

You are assuming way too much. No intention of using stock injectors. As for any knowledgeable person being able to tell it's an FI car right away, your not giving me much credit. Right now i'm running a 125hp wet n2o system that NOBODY has been able to find, not even the few people who know it is there! The "very knowledgeable" gentleman at the auto parts store that sponsors our domestic bracket race car looked for the system for over 20 minutes and could not find it. Now i realize a turbo is a little more difficult to hide, but try stashing 25lbs of n2o, two selenoids, switches, fuel lines, a wet fogger nozzle etc. and the turbo ain't looking so big! The whole point here is stealth. Loosing a couple ponies because of pressure really isn't an issue. As far as supplying the pressure to the throttle body undetected, well, if i told you how i was doing it, that would certainly decrease the chances of me keeping this a secret right?
BTW thanks for the EIP link! and your engine looks great! (mine looks like a dirty junkyard replacement, which of course is intentional)


_Modified by 1badx at 5:11 PM 7-13-2007_


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_i would like to know how you expect yours charge pipe to cool the air when it is run in the exact same channel as your exhaust piping to the turbo?
lets see. cat is about 1000 degrees, exhaust piping probably close to 600. road temp is not cold either. 
so, run your charge pipe next to your very hot exhaust, under your car, and tell me that it will cool down. NO
also, when you make boost, the hot, pressurized air should be allowed to expand very shortly after leaving the turbo for maximum efficiency. if you run 10 feet of piping, it has a long way to go before it can expand. 
with a normal turbo setup, you may have 4 feet or a little more of piping before it hits either an intercooler or the manifold. 
the kinetic kit stage 1 has literally 2 inches of piping. instant expansion of hot gasses.
you can do your rear mount turbo by all means, but please know that it will not make as much power as a comparable front mounted turbo setup.
your car may still be quick, but for an extra $300 for a manifold, you could proabably pick up 40 or so WHP.

Who said I was running the charge pipe in the same channel as my exhaust pipe?


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: Hidden Turbo Question - 95 VR6 Jetta (PTown Love)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PTown Love* »_Just fab this one (eip charges an arm and a left nut) , it bolts on to the existing manifold, so it looks pretty stock because the turbo sits wayyyy lower... Then get a SRI intake manifold, and run ur piping under the engine and into a small hidden intercooler or air to water and into ur SRI... and use a heat shield... That would be dope http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks jhayesvw! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PTown Love (Jan 10, 2006)

^^^ not my car, just an example of someone who fabbed up an EIP-like manifold... My only advice is do either chip tuning, or standalone, i dont know of anyone running stock ECU with a FI VR6, ive heard of people useing like a GIAC chip and thinking it will work, but it doesnt, for a VR6 you WILL need some form of tuning, i dont know how that dude in the link got away, but then again his entire setup sounds sketch and it seems like he wont show anyone what he used... so just save a little more for the chip, and do the remote turbo thing, and look into turboing VR6s more so you dont F*** up ur engine like some have... and if you are going to be running a non intercooled setup without a headspacer, i believe the rule of thumb is dont go over 10psi, and 14 intercooled, and more with a HG spacer. However i dont know the difference in charge temps between the front mount turbo and the remote turbo, so these figures may be different... 
P.S. if you really want to be baller, use an air to water IC under ur car or wherever u want to run ur piping...


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: (PTown Love)*

Thanks for the advice, I definitely will be running a head spacer and no more than 10-15 psi. The standalone is also desirable but another expense (that i may not be able to avoid) and another thing to hide. I probably will go with the meth injection or n2o over a hidden IC. Thanks for the info and i'll keep you posted if i go this route. Right now i'm practicing getting this thing to hook with the current setup. I'm hoping a low psi turbo might be easier on the engine and possible easier to get traction with...


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## DubbleTrubble (Dec 14, 2001)

*Re: (1badx)*

crouching tiger, hidden turbo


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (1badx)*

I love the hidden n2o spray. For your purposes I think its the best thing. That on top of turbo could be nice though








How are you going to hide the turbo and boost piping underneath the car?


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I love the hidden n2o spray. For your purposes I think its the best thing. That on top of turbo could be nice though








How are you going to hide the turbo and boost piping underneath the car? 

Whoa! 12.80's ! I like that alot!!!!


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## UBER KUHL (May 16, 2005)

my best advice is to go with a c2 chip. If you can fab an exhaust manifold, similar to eip's or my dad's(pictured above), do it and run the charge pipe back into your stock intake manifold(It will be plenty stealthy, and the untrained eye, will think its stock) Maybe even use the stock air box for your intake(just an idea). Start out with the c2 stage 1 fueling and get all of the issues dealt with, and then upgrade from there.


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## UBER KUHL (May 16, 2005)

so, I was thinking for a bit, and traveled down to the garage and followed up with the ideas. Very stealthy set up in my mind. I might go this route temporarily once i get my vr in my car. 
starting point:








rear veiw:








top: pretty stealthy(especially if you had a black silicon piece)








And very close to reality: Just weld on a 90 on the turbo. Re-routing the air from the DV would be easy. Then run the intake into the stock airbox(stealth mode)


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## 1badx (Jul 4, 2006)

*Re: (UBER KUHL)*

Mychal, Thanks for all the pics! Very stealthy indeed. The only drawback for me is the difficulty in accessing the turbo as well as all the intricate plumbing. Which takes me back to the rear mount for the turbo. I can put the car on the lift and have my turbo on or off in minutes. Also there are no real "specialty" pipes, just run the factory exhaust to the turbine and the output to the "fake" muffler. I will barely need to move any pipes. I plan on utilizing the stock airbox otherwise it would be a dead giveaway that something was up. Right now my biggest issue is locating the proper turbo and choosing between C2 software or a standalone system. If I could just get a hold of someone at C2 I would probably go that route, if not I may build a MegaSquirt 2 system. Any thoughts?


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## UBER KUHL (May 16, 2005)

*Re: (1badx)*

Honestly, it would be cheaper to do a turbo behind the motor. Less material, less plumbing distance. The setup Im working on can be bolted on without pulling the motor. The only pieces you will need to make are the mainfold, and the downpipe,(and of course the oil return bung into the oil pan). Are you focusing on a setup that can be easily removed? For management, definitely go with C2. It is a no-brainer for a daily driven car. Another thing to consider is water/meth injection. My dad's setup uses the winshield washer fluid tank, and is very very stealthy. With water/meth injection you virtually dont need an intercooler if you are running below 10psi


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## nimbusmk1 (Aug 12, 2003)

The money you save on the manifold will be spent on an oil pump and lines for the turbo. I don't really understand why it is important for the turbo to be hidden. Honestly unless the turbo is in the glove box I would be able to spot it on your car in 38seconds.


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## PTown Love (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: (UBER KUHL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UBER KUHL* »_Honestly, it would be cheaper to do a turbo behind the motor. Less material, less plumbing distance. 

Exhaust manifolds and downpipes for a VR6 turbo arnt that cheap. 2.5 IN. IC piping is... However, he would probably want to upgrade the exhaust going back to the turbo to ATLEAST 2.5 in. if not 3 in. because i dont think he will be able to flow enough exhaust through the stock 2.25 in. to suffice.. all in all, i think he SHOULD save up a little more money and fab a "look a like EIP" manifold like UBER KUHLs slc, and get a heat shield covering the exhaust manifold... Save for a C2 chip, or buy standalone (ive got sds that i might want to sell) either way you will like the results... In your origonal post you wanted something that will work with the factory ECU, please DONT do that, it will only lead to headachs...


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