# 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood



## 84GTI (Apr 26, 1999)

It's time for a brake upgrade for my corrado and I am in search of more stopping power. I want to be able to keep my 15" wheels so the TT, stoptech, porsche, etc. setups are not for me.
Does anyone have any experience with both the setups?
The weigh and ease of changing pads are perks for the wilwoods, but so is the extra pad contact area of the 11.3s.
Saying these setups were the same price what would you all do for a car that is autocrossed often and will most likely see a few track days?
Thanks


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

i don't do autocross stuff but i do do quite abit of trackdays. the wilwood set up is SO much better than the 11.3's. you can't believe the power 4 pistons give you. just remember to break them in with some junk pads and then replace them with some real pads. seems to be the best way. everyone glazes the initial set up no matter what is done.....?


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

can you explain the term glazing


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (schrickedVR6)*

i don't exactly know the physics behind what's going on when it glazes, but since the rotor is smooth and the pad is pourous the bedding process is when the pad scratches into the rotor and creates a mirror image of itself which creates more surface area = more friction. well if you are too hard on the brakes before this is complete you create too much heat and the pads get glazed. which is like someone clearcoated (or a 'glazed' donut) your pads and now they won't bite into the rotor = crappy braking. hopefully that comes across clear


----------



## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

I've also heard that some pad material bonds with the rotor, so bedding in is more than just mating the pad/rotor surfaces.
<canned answer from idiot who can't read>
Man... just get the 13" stoptechs, or the 996 upgrade dood...
Neil. Also look at "AR" calipers. I think they are in cahoots with Lockheed Martin. I haven't researched them too much, but they look cool







, and offer something that will work with 11" rotors.
Regardless, I would recommend going from 11 to 11.3" rotors, as the Wilwoods should accept both sizes without a problem.


----------



## 84GTI (Apr 26, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Surf Green)*

Tim, I was wondering about that with the wilwoods.
What about brackets though? I'd think that with the 11.3s you'r need a different bracket then the 11 kit that say rpi or momentum would sell?


----------



## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

Prolly. I've only briefly looked into brake upgrades. Partly cause I won't be doing anything till I get the Jetta, and partly cause it's so damned hard to find anyone who's willing to admit that they offer a 11" setup in this 'bigger is always better' world.


----------



## speed51133 (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Surf Green)*

its not just "bigger" is better.
look at the surface area of the brake pade too.
AND
look at the weight of each setup. the wilwood brake setup weighs like half of a TT setup. like 20 something pounds vs 40 something


----------



## speed51133 (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Surf Green)*

its not just "bigger" is better.
look at the surface area of the brake pade too.
AND
look at the weight of each setup. the wilwood brake setup weighs like half of a TT setup. like 20 something pounds vs 40 something


[Modified by speed51133, 10:09 AM 3-15-2002]


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (speed51133)*

thanks M this 1.
I am torn between going with the 11" wilwoods and being able to use my stock wheels at the track or jumping to 13" rotors and getting a set of 17" TE-37's. 
Anyone know what the weight diff is between stock DE 11.3" setup (rotor & caliper) and the wilwood 11" setup w/ the dual piston calipers?



[Modified by schrickedVR6, 11:49 AM 3-15-2002]


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (schrickedVR6)*

that's incredibly weird you said that. i went from the 11.3 stock with speedline 15's to 11.0's with the RPI/Wilwood set up first. total weight savings = 12lbs unsprung.
then went to TE37 17x7" in the (a year ago new) VW fitment and lost 9lbs a wheel more. that's right. i just so happened to have brand new tires on both and the 17" Volks save 36lbs off the stock set up. feels like i took more weight off the flywheel.
now i'm considering their 13" set up and am wondering if i want to lose my 15" option. but they do save even more weight than 11.0" set due to aluminum hats on the 13" rotors
no one makes a bracket to use 11.3" with wilwoods, as far as i know. main reason is you cannot use 15" wheels and you only gain .3" with no gain in sweep area of couse. the other problem is the 11.3" brakes use a more outboard rotor and caliper, which puts everything closer to the spokes of your wheel eliminating ALOT of wheels. so the negligable leverage gain of 0.3" isn't worth spit when stacked up against all the negatives.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

A 12 lb saving all around and better breaking to boot... not a bad deal. 
Do you have any pics of the TE-37's with the wilwoods underneath? Why do you feel yo need to upgrade further to 13" rotors? Is the wilwood kit not enough breaking, how much power are you making (or plan to be making)? TIA


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

is there any truth to the calipers needed to be rebuilt after a year because they have no dust boot?


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (schrickedVR6)*

i've never met anyone using them who's had a single problem with the caliper. this guy at Sports Compact Car said he used his for 2 race seasons and still nevr needed a rebuild. mine were a year old in january, they look/work just like brand new. the braking is crazy, especially with Hawk HPplus pads. i'm planning on the Matrix kit soon and as of now i'm 182hp/176tq to the wheels all motor so i figure more braking would be nice. also i've heard of a few people with 13's who said passengers need to vomit after a super hard stomp of the brake pedal. sounded impressive. i'll send you a picture when i get home to your email address


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

yes please send pics: [email protected]
So the hawk HP+ pads are what your using w/ the 11" kit. When you upgrade to the 13" LMK maybe I'll buy you old set off you.


----------



## 84GTI (Apr 26, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

M this 1, where did you find the hawk pads for the wilwoods?
I have been looking around and have only seen the wilwood pads (A,B,C,D,T compounds)


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

RPI has the pads all the time


----------



## TorontoCorrado (Jan 27, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

M This 1:
I am getting a 11" Wilwood kit for my Corrado next week.... How did you go about breaking in your setup when you first got it?
Also, how bad is the noise and dust with the Hawk pads???
Everyone:
i have a friend who works at a machine shop that is willing to CNC the brackets for the Wilwoods 11 (Corrado fitment for now, but maybe more later) for a good price. Anyone interested????
let me know
mikey


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (TorontoCorrado)*

well it was kinda tough, both my friend and i tried to be real mellow with the set up for a long while and still Hawk HPS's were crap. we figured it was 'cause the rotors were all oily so as to not rust on the self. oil is incredibly bad for pads. either that or the HPS's suck, 'cause once we put in the HPplus's it was amazing. but the oil was obviously gone by then too. so i'd say use brake cleaner on the rotors before mounting and then be SUPER mellow for a few hundred kms. they are pretty dusty and they squeek when you've been hard on them and are now cruising thru a parking lot softly applying the pedal. normal braking is quiet, it's just when you're cruising and everyone wonders why such a nice car has worn out pads on it. i tried some track pads from Mintex and they made no noise ever, nor did they produce much dust, but they took alot of heat to get up to working temp and then faded right away. had the narrowest temp range i've ever seen. they of course went in the trash and back on went the Hawks. by the way the hawks don't take any heat to make work and never fade, pretty mind blowing.


----------



## EuroJetta (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

Another option for 13" set-up I noticed while on the RPI website is a Wilwood 13" set-up. It is supposed to be quite a bit lighter than the TT upgrade.


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (EuroJetta)*

that's actually the 13" kit we were talking about


----------



## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

All this time, I thought the 11 and 11.3 calipers used the same mounting points. Do they?
Would a 11.3" rotor fit under the 11" caliper setup?
Ugh...


----------



## 84GTI (Apr 26, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Surf Green)*

Tim, the mounting points for the carriers are the same but the calipers and carriers are both different.


----------



## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

Okay... so the 3 dollar question is this:
Could I get the Corrado 11" setup for my car and it would fit without any problem?
And the million dollar question is this:
Would I be able to keep my current 11.3" rotors? I'd like to, because they are a little thicker. Wilwood sells a caliper for wider rotors.


----------



## Eric16v (Feb 17, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Tim, the mounting points for the carriers are the same but the calipers and carriers are both different.[HR][/HR]​I thought it was just the carrier that was different. Reason I say this is cause I use the same pad for my 10.1s that are used on the 11.0 and 11.3's.


----------



## 84GTI (Apr 26, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Eric16v)*

hmmmm, highly possible I am wrong.
Can anyone with an ETKA confirm some part numbers?


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

the 11" rotor is 22mm wide, the 11.3" is 25mm. the caliper is able to easily handle both widths, it's just like i said before the 11" caliper and rotor sit about 1/2" closer to the shock (more inboard) than the 11.3's. so you have to have a specific carrier to put the wilwoods on the 11.3's and i don't think anyone makes one because you CAN'T use 15's anymore. if you want Wilwoods you have to have either an 11" rotor or a 13". and if you're talking VW parts the 11.3 caliper is different than the 11. the 11.3 uses a much taller pad and that is where the 33% increase in pad area (sweep) comes from.


----------



## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

God... this is so confusing.
So... My best bet would be to get some 11" rotors and Willwoods, and they'll bolt right up. Right? Would spacers help get them to fit the current 11.3" setup? Case I plan to run them when I swap back to the stock 15" wheels that I'll be putting R-compound tires on.
I'd like to transfer my 11.3 setup to the Jetta Wagon I'm getting, because I'd like a larger pad for the heavier car (which will likely pull a trailer). I don't plan on high speed 90mph+ braking with it, so the 4 piston monoblock isn't necessary.


----------



## Eric16v (Feb 17, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Surf Green)*

Tim, when do you plan to order your brakes? We can compare when I am up there next weekend.


----------



## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Eric16v)*

Not for a while. I need my ABS back first.








It'll be after I get the Jetta though. (I might use the 11" rotors from that)


----------



## Eric16v (Feb 17, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Surf Green)*

The TDI have a spindle like that of the 9.4" brake variety but for 11" unless they have changed.


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Eric16v)*

surf green, you have mail. i sent you a pic of the clearance of my 15's and 11.0/Wilwoods. the spacer would help the caliper not hit the spoke but the wheel wouldn't rotate due to the caliper being slammed into the outer edge. oh, and you'd have a bitch of a time finding any 17 to not hit the spoke either. my Volks barely clear with a 2mm spacer from RPI. i have a 1mm gap but Wilwood said i needed to allow a 2/1000 of a mm for expansion so i figure i got miles. let me know if you didn't get them or have a new email


----------



## Surf Green (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

Can't get e-mail at work.
Damn commie basturds!


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (Surf Green)*

i sent it to your personal link, let me know if it's changed. stupid photopoint went under and now i don't have a way to post pics. someone let me know of another so i post this stuff on here again..


----------



## 84GTI (Apr 26, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

M this 1 if you want me to throw a couple pics up here you can email them to me and I'll post for you.
I'm curious to see this too.


----------



## M this 1! (May 17, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

done, and thanks before hand


----------



## 84GTI (Apr 26, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (M this 1!)*

Here is the pic from M this 1!








Thanks!


----------



## SpeedyD (Jun 9, 1999)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

Here's my 11"s - no clearance issued on the 17s - but my 15's BARELY cleared....










[Modified by SpeedyD, 3:01 PM 3-23-2002]


----------



## PhOO (May 23, 2000)

*Re: 11.3s VS. 11" Wilwood (84GTI)*

IMO you want a larger diameter rotor, which is more leverage against the wheel. The plus side is the calipers you get. Monoblock 4 pot calipers are better than the stock floating calipers and give better, more even pad pressure.


----------

