# Help please, I have tried everything to get a solid pedal...



## SilvBullit (Sep 7, 2001)

2001 Jetta VR6 with ASR and ABS. When I bought the car someone stole the brake fluid reservoir so I knew it needed a bleed once I got one on there.

The pads and rotors are all nearly brand new. I have bled three quarts through the system per Bentley directions and have done the Ross-Tech ABS bleed procedure twice. It stops great but the pedal makes it nearly to the floor. It felt just like a tired master cylinder so I even swapped the master cylinder for a used one and after bench bleeding, installing and doing the whole bleed over again the pedal is exactly the same. There are zero leaks anywhere, the ebrake is properly adjusted, and I have checked all the caliper sliders to ensure they are lubed and moving freely. Everything should be perfect.


The only suspect is that I am using a one-man bleeder bottle with a magnet that attaches to the bleeder screw and then I pump the pedal at until the bottle is full. It fulls the bottle quickly with only 10 strokes of the pedal or so.

The other odd thing it that when I run the ABS bleed sequence and get to the part where I open the front bleeder screws and then make the pump run, the fluid that runs out looks to have extremely tiny air bubbles in it no matter how fresh the fluid is going in or how many time I do it.

Any ideas out there? Thanks a bunch in advance.


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## SilvBullit (Sep 7, 2001)

43 views and nothing yet. 

Still the same and I just used a motiv power bleeder with the same outcome. How many times has an ABS unit been the culprit? That is the only thing left...


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## SilvBullit (Sep 7, 2001)

By the way, every single time I run the abs pump via VAG COM I see small air bubbles run out even when the reservoir is full and all the air has been purged from the lines. Is it just flowing so fast that it pulls air by the bleeder screw threads when it comes out?


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

yuck, this is a difficult one. how loose are you unscrewing the bleeder, just letting it just barely leak out?
thats all I got


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## SilvBullit (Sep 7, 2001)

I open the bleeder a half turn or a little less. The fluid runs out pretty fast with 10psi at the cap. So far I have replaced the ABS module, installed a new master cylinder, and bled the crap out of the system and still the same condition. There are no leaks anywhere, and all of the calipers are moving freely. I am completely stumped. 

It will lock the brakes and the abs comes on on dry pavement so there is plenty of braking power...it just feels odd.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

do you dirive another car often instead of this one?
I had the same feeling going from my Evo back to my Gti... but if you are locking the tires most likely you have successfully bled the system.... no since I drive my Gti DD it seems normal


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## SilvBullit (Sep 7, 2001)

We have a 2001 Cabrio which has an entirely different braking system and the pedal is more solid and doesn't travel as far BUT...when you sit with the engine on, the pedal will push to a point where it will seem to butt against something but not the floor and that is the point that, when you are driving, you would push it down to only in the case of a panic stop. The Jetta feels exactly the same way but that point where the pedal touches that point is a little further, and when I look at the pedal it is not to the floor but fairly far down. The brakes begin to grab at about 1/5 pedal travel so I am just going to say it is supposed to be that way. If I drive it for an hour it doesn't feel any different.

All this after 6 liters of fluid has been bled through the system....


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## JazzGTI (Jul 23, 2003)

You might want to check the the rotor thickness. It may below spec letting the pedal travel further. That is all i can think of rigght off hand.


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## SilvBullit (Sep 7, 2001)

I did not bleed the clutch since it is a different system entirely and won't affect braking performance. 

The rotor thickness is on the lower side of the scale but the pads are new, so a couple mm on the rotor wouldn't be a big deal considering worn pads are easily 10-15mm thinner between the two. 

I am thinking that the braking system just feels that way on this car.

Oh, BTW, I also tried a different ABS unit and there was zero difference there so I eliminated that as well.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

yeah, I'd say that is just the way it is...


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## IJM (Jul 30, 2001)

I have virtually the same car as you and I can't get a very solid pedal either. Check to be sure the rotors are the same thickness all the way across. I was going to suggest pad taper might be your problem, but you said they're new pads. It's probably my biggest complaint about this car.


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## vee_dubb_gti (Nov 17, 2004)

are you bleeding in the right order? there are two diff orders to bleed depending on what system you have. also are the pads broken in yet?


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## SilvBullit (Sep 7, 2001)

Yeah, this is the older system that you bleed RR, LR, RF, LF. The pads are now bed in and the pads grab even better than before but the pedal still goes pretty far but I drove a 2000 VR6 and it felt the same. I am really standing on the brakes when I say it goes to the floor. At this point, with the brakes bedded in, if I stomped that hard it would toss me out the front window. 

I spoke with my girl's cousin who has been a VW tech at a VW dealer for 11 years and he says that the VR6s just have more vacuum at idle and VW used the same master cylinder and brake booster for all the engines that results in a lighter pedal making the brakes feel more mushy. It is just a design oversight and he said not to worry. It could be worse, it could be the TDI issue when the booster gets tired the vacuum sucks the pedal to the floor without the driver even touching the it.


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## toddhought (Jul 13, 2006)

You might want to swap out the brake lines for stainless steel ones if you haven't already. the brakes on my mkvi could go all the way to the floor under hard (track day) braking. Plus, once the fluid got hot, they were just damn near shot until the whole system cooled down. 

After the new lines (Goodridge), pedal travels about 1.5" and then feel like there's a brick under the pedal, it's just rock hard and has great feel on heavy and even light braking.


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## Jayj (Jul 1, 2011)

did you pressure bleed at the abs pump before going to the wheels? Meaning, applying that same 10 psi to the reservoir then cracking each line open individually until the fluid was clear then move to the calipers?


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