# The future of modified VW's



## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

I'd like to hope that in a few years transmission swaps will be as popular as engine swaps are now but people will cross the VAG line and start having some fun.There's a lot of swaps out there that I think can be made to work,just no time to try them.I know my personal one is taking 2 forevers to get done,but it's got little to do with the difficulty of the swap itself.(A little,but it'd be done if I stayed on top of it and people making parts)
Anyway,lets start looking at those fwd Mitsu trannies,Ford Focus,Pontiac Feiro's etc etc etc. I see cars at the track running them with little or no problems,nothing says we can't mount a VW motor to it.We can make roll cages,turbo manifolds etc. why are people hesitant to make transmission mounts and motor plates? Think about what's actually involved in transmitting that power from the motor to the tranny,it's not that involved.
Transmissions are the #1 thing holding powerful VW's back,people are finally realizing this with 1st hand exp. The answer isn't an 02a,02j or anything VAG that I've seen.
LETS EVOLVE!


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## Quiz (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Hardcore VW)*

What About The dodge omni trans. didn't VW through motors in the early omni's? Hell the layout looks similar to an old counterflow 8v. I've heard the Auto trans can be built almost bullet proof on those but any info on a 5spd?


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

THere wasn't a 5 speed,only automatics and 4 speeds.Even though I went with the automatic version,I think there's more modern options out there. (Omni ones that have the right bolt pattern are pretty hard to find)


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

I saw a red 10 sec. Neon streetcar in Turbo magazine,and it had a AUTO TRANNY! I was thinking the same thing you are....why not? Mopar makes some good trannys9or whoever makes them for Mopar)


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*

That's my man Steve Lockett.Good people.Even beyond Mopar though,I'm sure there's a few other brands that will work with a little fabrication.I'm looking forward to the day that other people step up and try other options.It's only a matter of time I'm sure.People used to argue about stand alone efi and decent sized turbos too,but they came around.


_Modified by Hardcore VW at 12:13 PM 8-25-2004_


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## arvcube (Aug 11, 1999)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Hardcore VW)*

this has nothing to do with vw's but my pop's and i put an 84 toyota celica 5 spd trans in his 69 volvo p1800 that originally came with a 4spd. made a mock up adapter plate out of wood and had our machine shop cut it out of 1" aluminum plate. works perfect...


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

I WISH i had the time to try out some trannies. It would require too much fabrication and testing time. Who knows maybe ill hit the lotto, then ill have a lot of free time, ill test every tranny out there. Just gotta start buying lotto tix haha.


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## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (nycvr6)*

BuLL by the horns, not getting jacked up the A$$. 
You guys are so far ahead of the rest of the dub scene u dont need to worry too much, hell over here(U.K) they debate if the U.S 1/4 is the same length, if the times are genuine, etc...
Over here the G60 is like the creme de la creme








Taking things places makes sense to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
1. hard core •n. (100%) 
the most active, committed, or doctrinaire members of a group.

-Rich


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

That might be true,but to the rest of the automotive community,we're a little behind.
My point about tranny swaps wasn't to "test" any as plenty of trannies have proven their worth and just need to be swapped into a VW. I think the lack of VW Audi logos makes people not think about it,if it was in the latest GTI people would be all over it.


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## slowgti (Jul 15, 2003)

has anyone tried to run a honda tranny in reverse? i mean so the it will use a regular rotation engune? just thinking out loud.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Hardcore VW)*

nice rant there justin!
so tell us, if you could pick a trans, whats the one to pick?


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (speed51133!)*

justin i still think youre on the best track, other than brady with the rwd! But the dodge tranny seems to be the easiest(other than finding the case). I mean **** its proven,(crawfords neon), FOrward motion is more than happy to build the tranny, converter and flexplate. And i think its even cheaper than a quaife straight gear set! I fi recall i think the only thing that got the price up there was if a quaife was wanted. But otherwise they used a welded diff in crawfords car for a while! The only thing that had me go away from this tranny was picking a stall. I think they wanted 800 for a converter, and i have no idea what my motor even puts out yet. And the fact i would want a quaife to retain streetability. But who knows im still not rulling this out in the future.
Todd


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

I have always wondered the following:
Are VAG auto trannies durable? Can they handle power? I have a 95 B4 VR Passat Auto with 122k and everything runs perfectly. Id love to supercharge it, but would the tranny be able to handle the torque?
Any insights would be helpful.


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Hardcore VW)*

Hardcore VW - As far as manuel trans go it is starting to look like the 02M six speed is very durable and can take a bunch more HP than the 02A or the 02J trans. can.







- Bob


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## jimivr6 (Feb 18, 2003)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Hardcore VW)*

what about the quaife sequential tranny that autotech have in their catalog ??


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (jimivr6)*

Do you want to spend 15k dollars?







That sh*t wont last for drag racing,hell no.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*

hardcore - it's funny you mentioned big turbos and standalone because i've notice in the last two years that they are becoming more of a standard item then few and far between
For now I'm going to keep running my agb 020 w/ LSD because I'm not a dedicated 1/4 person but i wish we could substitute better trannies http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Evolution Marine)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Evolution Marine* »_Hardcore VW - As far as manuel trans go it is starting to look like the 02M six speed is very durable and can take a bunch more HP than the 02A or the 02J trans. can.







- Bob

Durable as in able to take a barrage of 9 sec passes? That's what we need.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Hardcore VW)*

I'm putting a TH400 into my Mk2. I'm just going to use the output shaft to drive the left front wheel, and the other one can just be a dummy. I'm going to run one BIG slick and hope for the best. 
The above is a complete lie, but it could work much better then an O2O.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (need_a_VR6)*

IIRC, some FWD GM cars have a variant of the TH350 and TH200 (?)boxes. Both of those can be modified to handle *big* HP/torque numbers. 
Dunno how adaptable they'd be into a VW chassis, but I hear the Race-Shop guys can handle minor fabrication.


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## NJCorradoSLC (Apr 14, 2004)

Yea i also thought about this idea...where are the adapter plates???somones gotta think of the solution...what about quafes dog box for the 02a even getting those gears treated with somthing???maybe that would hold them but some sort of dog box is def. the way


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## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: (NJCorradoSLC)*

Most big dog imports drags us these...
http://www.xtrac.com/mainindex.htm
http://www.browellbellhousing.com/
Kenny tran and everyone else use these. Why doesn't any vw guys try this????


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## BUNNYLOVE (Jul 28, 2000)

*Re: (extremsplvr6)*

Most big dog imports have big sponsors also. I don't know how much the xtrac goes for but its probable well beyond the average VW racer's budget.


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: (BUNNYLOVE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BUNNYLOVE* »_Most big dog imports have big sponsors also. I don't know how much the xtrac goes for but its probable well beyond the average VW racer's budget.

Yep, VW gets no love from sponsors. The xtracs go for A LOT of money.


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## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: (extremsplvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *extremsplvr6* »_Most big dog imports drags us these...
http://www.xtrac.com/mainindex.htm
http://www.browellbellhousing.com/
Kenny tran and everyone else use these. Why doesn't any vw guys try this????









Actually there is only 4 in use. Kenny tran has two, gary gardella has one and pro-drag has the other one. The trans alone costs 15K and then about another 2-3K for a bellhousing.


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Evolution Marine)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Evolution Marine* »_Hardcore VW - As far as manuel trans go it is starting to look like the 02M six speed is very durable and can take a bunch more HP than the 02A or the 02J trans. can.







- Bob

Maybe you guys should try running trans coolers.That may help the boxes last a little longer,seeing as even porsche G50 boxes will self destruct when they are ran hot


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Yeah and swaps/conversions are usually to avoid the money spending contests.....anyone can do anything with that kinda cash.


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Evolution Marine)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Evolution Marine* »_Hardcore VW - As far as manuel trans go it is starting to look like the 02M six speed is very durable and can take a bunch more HP than the 02A or the 02J trans. can.







- Bob


Three input shafts instead of one


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (veedub11)*

trans coolers are actually not to pricey at all.You can purchase a Tilton flowjet pump for around 200 dollars,you can find descent little Setrab coolers for 50 bucks and what ever the cost is to plumb it to the trans.Whole setup cant run 350 bucks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_Three input shafts instead of one









No. One input shaft. Two pinion shafts.
Hardcore VW: why don't one of you guys at least try a 02M and see how much hurt you can put on it before it lets go?


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

I"m already knee deep in my auto conversion,it's already been proven amny times over.If I had another car I was building and/or some type pf other budget,I would.Another thing though,say someone puts out ~1k for an 02m then breaks it like an 020.....On private budgets it'd be devestating,that's why I suggested (and did myself) adapting something that's already been proven in other cars.


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## FULLE LOADED (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Angular)*

I jumped at the chance to get my 02m and then realized that other ring and pinons were not available yet so know im waiting for info from over seas. Im pretty sure that the 02m is much stronger than the o2a/02j i know a few guys that have 24v's boosted and their trans are holding up 500hp and up. The and might be a Quaife 02m box 
since they make a double pinion shaft with the stonger gears.
But for now i will be using this damn *Stock* 02j 
until different final drives are made



_Modified by FULLE LOADED at 11:23 PM 8-26-2004_


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## MKIII-JP (Dec 3, 2003)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (FULLE LOADED)*

The gears are NOT the weakest link of the gear set! it is the clutching teeth on the output shaft or on the individual gear it's self.
JP.


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## vr6ofpain (Feb 5, 2004)

you guys are hardcore. i wish i had the know how to embark into this type of modifying. i hate the O2A in my VR6. Even after replacing the 1-2 syncro and putting in a short shifter the piece sucks compared to the feel of my brothers GS-R's stick. my friend with the type-R, even better. i dont understand why VW has to make such ****ty transmissions. maybe things will change?


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## MeGaMoNk_turbo (Apr 21, 2001)

*Re: (vr6ofpain)*

i definitely feel Hardcore on this issue. i started looking at the omni stick trannies awhile ago but never followed up. even the guys at the shop told me i need to do something and i guess i'll just have to start looking at everything out there. it suxs when a turbo tercel tranny looks the size of an o2a.







maybe i can get some different internals to fit in an 02a casing. willing to due some research if everyone else is! we really need to due something!


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (MeGaMoNk_turbo)*

Doesnt GM run a stock case tranny in their 8 sec Saturn? Atleast when the car was first built I thought it did. 5spd auto, just like the one in my mothers Saturn. Wonder how that would bolt up... I dont think shed like me ripping apart her new car


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*

well as of last weekend its a 7 sec saturn (publicly, anyway).
Yes they use a stock tranny case, but it is the tranny out of the 6 cylinder gran pricks. those trannys are strong , there is a whole community of 10/11/12 sec gran prix's out there. 
But if everyone thinks there is a magic tranny out there that will never ever break for 5 years, then thats just not a realistic expectation about racing..... racing takes work... every week between races that only requires an oil change and a quick detail can be considered *luck*


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

>>But if everyone thinks there is a magic tranny out there that will never ever break for 5 years, then thats just not a realistic expectation about racing..... <<
Exactly,I know this and you know this but there's definitely better drivelines to be had than what we've been dealt from VAG.IBut I don't think it's too unrealistic to expect a tranny that could run 10's consistantly with only changing parts seasonally.I'm not talking about making it to every race in the nation here,talking more of a weekend warrior type car that goes to the track whenever.(I think that's what most people on here are leaning towards more than an all out race venue.*Not that there's anything wrong with that* (Seinfeld)


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

I've considered building a 3-speed VW Golf/Jetta tranny up for this exact reason (outside of the fact that nothing sounds cooler than a car that never drops out of boost







). We have an auto tranny performance shop out here that MIGHT be able to help...but the rumour is that the owner HATES VW autos





















.
Maybe if I wave money under his nose for a few weeks he'll help...cause I certainly have no experience with this stuff. The 2.2/2.5 turbo dodge autos are twice the size of the VW one, which makes for a difficult mounting IMO. I'd be interested in grabbing one to try though, the turbo minivans had 4 clutchpacks







.


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## jwspin (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (B4S)*

i wish we had more options for the vanagons. those trannies suck..... and they r 4 speed









-jared


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (jwspin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwspin* »_i wish we had more options for the vanagons. those trannies suck..... and they r 4 speed









-jared

aircooled tranny swaps can't be THAT hard in that application can they?


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_ the turbo minivans had 4 clutchpacks







.

Mines been modified for 5


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_well as of last weekend its a 7 sec saturn (publicly, anyway).
Yes they use a stock tranny case, but it is the tranny out of the 6 cylinder gran pricks. those trannys are strong , there is a whole community of 10/11/12 sec gran prix's out there. 
But if everyone thinks there is a magic tranny out there that will never ever break for 5 years, then thats just not a realistic expectation about racing..... racing takes work... every week between races that only requires an oil change and a quick detail can be considered *luck*


Not a magic tranny but like Hardcore said, a tranny that wont break every 3 races. Id be happy if I knew my tranny could handle a season of 10 sec passes. Racing it 3 times a month or so. Im worried that my 02j wont stand up to the abuse next year.


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## slowvr6jetta (Aug 20, 2004)

*Re: (B4S)*

I see it this way:
Get an auto if you want to drag race. Crank the line pressure in your 01M. I've never dealt with high power levels and an 01M, but in my GF's slow crappy 2.0l cabrio, the brand new trans VW put in took forever to shift into 2nd, and jumped hard into 2nd, then slipped into third.
The fluid that came out was filled with metal. We've done two partial fluid changes, since we can't change the torque converter, and the best solution we've found to make it grab hard, is to crank up the line pressure as much as you can. At least, this was our last resort. The car now will chirp 2nd hard, shifts perfectly and I think if this had been done while the gearbox was brand new or close to it, the gearbox would still be shifting perfectly to this day, even driven as hard as possible.


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I've considered building a 3-speed VW Golf/Jetta tranny up for this exact reason (outside of the fact that nothing sounds cooler than a car that never drops out of boost







). We have an auto tranny performance shop out here that MIGHT be able to help...but the rumour is that the owner HATES VW autos





















.
Maybe if I wave money under his nose for a few weeks he'll help...cause I certainly have no experience with this stuff. The 2.2/2.5 turbo dodge autos are twice the size of the VW one, which makes for a difficult mounting IMO. I'd be interested in grabbing one to try though, the turbo minivans had 4 clutchpacks







.

The early omni trannys have the same bolt pattern as a 4cyl vw tranny!


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## TurboABA (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_
The early omni trannys have the same bolt pattern as a 4cyl vw tranny!

.... but do they mount on the same side as ours do? I find that the majority of cars have the tranny mounted on the other side which make a transfer that much more difficult.


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## BUNNYLOVE (Jul 28, 2000)

*Re: (TurboABA)*

The old omni trans is on the correct side. The front engine mount has the same mounting points as an A1-A3. You have to fabricate the other trans mount or mounts. Most transmissions that are on the opposite side are Hondas from what I've seen..


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (TurboABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TurboABA* »_ I find that the majority of cars have the tranny mounted on the other side which make a transfer that much more difficult.

True,but a lot don't,I've seen FWD Mitsubishi's (tranny on right side of engine bay)GM mounts most on the rightside,Ford Focus mounts on the right side.As do Mopar(I'm *thinking/hoping* that GM/Ford would have stronger parts,because there's some out there that have proven to do what we want already)I haven't spent much time snooping around the pits these last 2 seasons,so I'd like to see what other "stock" trannies people are doing what with.


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

Heres a little something. Nissan Altima KA24 trannies might be another solution. My brothers friend runs 13's on his auto KA24 spraying a 80 shot. So far it holds up to daily driving and drag racing. Car is making like 140ish whp off the juice and im sure 210ish on the bottle if not slightly more. This is motivating a 2800lbs car w/ slicks. I wonder how much abuse it would take motivating a 2000lbs car into the 11's or 10's. I wish I had money to play with these things.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Yeah I mistakenly left Nissan off that list5,there was a red sentra around years ago that ran quite a few 10's,I don't recall him having tranny problems. (I never really followed the car either though)


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## cnbrown (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

One of my best bud's uncle owns Taylor race engineering. The ONLY thing they deal with is custom transaxle setups for cars. In fact, they are the ones who mostly designed Kenny's setup. If someone had a design, they'd be more than happy to help make the design come alive.
From what he told me the other night at dinner, Kenny's setup lasts 10-14 passes before it needs replacing. At first, they were getting 1 pass per tranny...then 4...then 10-14








Although, I think there are better trannies, I agree with badhabit. I think a tranny cooler would help TREMENDOUSLY. You have to consider the metal(of the gears, output shaft etc), and its integrity and tensile strength at high temperatures. Tensile AND compression strengths are greatly lowered at high temps....


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

I chose a diferent aproach to solve this problem.I'm using a fox with a audi 90 driveline.


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## TurboABA (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: (KOOTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KOOTER* »_I chose a diferent aproach to solve this problem.I'm using a fox with a audi 90 driveline.

If you're not breaking it, you're either not making enough power or you're just babying it!


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (cnbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cnbrown* »_Although, I think there are better trannies, I agree with badhabit. I think a tranny cooler would help TREMENDOUSLY. You have to consider the metal(of the gears, output shaft etc), and its integrity and tensile strength at high temperatures. Tensile AND compression strengths are greatly lowered at high temps....


I always thought trans coolers were for transmission fluid and not gear oil....but w/e Our gears strip when they're hot,cold or warm,it doesn't matter.I don't think that's the way to go from what I've seen in the last 7 years.I'm not arguing the point with anyone,I'm all about people trying new things but personaly it's just not what I've seen.


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## TurboABA (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

I'm not sure a trans cooler would have saved my last tranny either. Oh... and on top of that, there just isn't any room left to add one. Between my intercooler and oil cooler, there's barely any airflow left for the radiator.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Bah you cna put them just about anywhere though,where there's a will there's a way! I was gonna do mine under the battery along the fender with a fan,but I've almost decided to reconfigure the IC and radiator and do a huge one,haven't decided for sure yet,but that might be the way to go since on an automatic cool tranny fluid is important.


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

Trust me guys,a cooler WILL make your boxes last alot longer.In fact another 901 box bit the dust due to the driver not flipping the switch on the cooler.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

ya i'm super worried about my 02a... 
eventually i will do the same..
what has been said about the 02m is true though... my buddy was a vw tech until about 6 months ago, and he tore into one already... he said it was BY FAR the strongest gearbox vw has ever built. 
the main problem with that is that right now they are worth $... 
other thing to consider is... it has a magnesium case... case cracking problems maybe?


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## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

well, i am deff in for some some exploring- one of the cars i race w/ is a 914, w/ a x-flow, running the 914 tranny, got a good look at what it really takes to make up an adapter plate ( i.e. not a whole lot except some common sense and a steady hand for making templates)
mark my words- i WILL be running rwd on my race car next season- the research has begun


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (hkk735)*

944 would be better


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## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*

Not that i know much on the topic,but wonder why Audi gears cant be of some use,seems to be a lot of high HP audi's and you dont hear the same gear troubles as you do with VW's,for example the 2.2 20vT engine's are basically a 16v 5cyl so would the bolt pattern not be similair,i know the actual size would be a problem with the different engine layouts.
Can anyone tell me,if the cable change 02A in the Passat 1.6TD would be any stronger than say G60 O2A,or are all of them identical.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (rossmc1)*

Nearly all the 5 cylinders are longitudinally mounted, not tranverse. There's no way to use one of those gearboxes in a transverse configuration.
If I keep the Scirocco long enough and manage to toast my 02J, I will probably covert to the 02M 6 spd. I haven't heard of anyone breaking one yet. Everyone I've heard that's opened one up has been impressed with the apparent strength of that gearbox.


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_Nearly all the 5 cylinders are longitudinally mounted, not tranverse. There's no way to use one of those gearboxes in a transverse configuration.
If I keep the Scirocco long enough and manage to toast my 02J, I will probably covert to the 02M 6 spd. I haven't heard of anyone breaking one yet. Everyone I've heard that's opened one up has been impressed with the apparent strength of that gearbox.

First on the audi! Who has an audi and actually races it(drag) Im pretty sure this is our concern here! There are tons of these BT(thats big turbo, im learnign the 1.8t lingo now!) Making power but is any one actually kicking the crap out of these things? And i dont mean on the streets! I mean at the track with big slicks! Ill answer that. NO!!! Now to the o2m commen. Everyone thats opened one, wtf is that gonna tell you. Unless youre smashing them together it can look as good as you like. It doesnt mean youre gonna get any significant amount of good 60fts out of it. We need a tranny that will live up to at least 1.5 60fts all day long and wont shatter the gears when we shift into 2nd or 3rd!!!


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: (turbodub)*

Oh yeah FWD too!!!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_
Mines been modified for 5









Is yours an early Omni tranny? I have access to a storehouse of 2.2/2.5 parts (some friends in my group are Mopar turbo packrats







), and have begun considering machining a bellhousing adaptor. The only thing that holds me back is the physical size of the Mopar autos....they are as big as my ABF







.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

yeah and your not kidding about the size! I don't think the pass side is that much heavier anymore! I try not to move that tranny alonoe,it's another back problem waiting to happen.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

Dude, I may have rounded up a 1.7 auto tranny...happy happy day!






























Anyone mind if I do a bit of pestering IM-wise?


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## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

the srt4 trannys seem to be holding up good to power and slicks thats what i wish i could try on my car, who knows maybe someday


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*

I think the old Dodge "non-electronic" trannies are the best bet right now.......due to similarities in bolt pattern,mounts etc.,but the BIG one is NO electronics.......
Any trans in any modern car is electonically controlled,so you would have to integrate ECU input/output to engine ECU ,since trans relies on rpm,TPS,and other sensors,so that would be a big hurdle,then you woukld have to somehow program different shift points since everything is solenoid controlled......








Old trannys,I assume you change some clutches and alter valve spring pressure,and get higher stall torque converters,etc.,and all this stuff is already available for the Omni tranny...


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*

Justin, you know I'm working on going the auto route. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am also planning on producing aftermarket parts for auto trannies if it works. 2005 should get interesting.
*Drag racing and holding power are completely different. *
Just FYI: For those seeking the 02M, its no better than the MKIV 02J. Not that thats a bad thing... I had literally hundreds of drag passes on mine running 1.9's all day long.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Not that 1.9's aren't decent,but 1.8's and lower is when the count down starts.
as for making parts,that sounds awesome,just don't make any that are already available at a low cost.


_Modified by Hardcore VW at 5:10 AM 9-1-2004_


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (KrautFed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KrautFed* »_Just FYI: For those seeking the 02M, its no better than the MKIV 02J. Not that thats a bad thing... I had literally hundreds of drag passes on mine running 1.9's all day long.

What's your basis for saying 02M is no better than the 02J? This statement goes against everything I've seen, heard, read.
You had hundreds of passes on a 02J or a 02M?


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_What's your basis for saying 02M is no better than the 02J? This statement goes against everything I've seen, heard, read.
You had hundreds of passes on a 02J or a 02M?

I have 02J. There's quite a few racers out there with 02M's, I'm just stating that the tranny has its problems and is no better than the MKIV 02J. I actually believe the 02J/02M is the future for people wanting to drag race VW's. APTuning is leading the charge in the 02J/02M advancement.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (KrautFed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KrautFed* »_
I have 02J. There's quite a few racers out there with 02M's, I'm just stating that the tranny has its problems and is no better than the MKIV 02J. I actually believe the 02J/02M is the future for people wanting to drag race VW's. APTuning is leading the charge in the 02J/02M advancement.

On one hand I should be glad that I have a MkIV (New Beetle TDI) 02J in my Scirocco but on the other hand I find it hard to believe and very disappointing that the 02M isn't significantly stronger than the 02J. If you have any more information as to what the weaknesses of the 02M are, please share.


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## traderart (May 6, 2004)

*Re: (Angular)*

Do they already have a kit for a 020/02M


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## FULLE LOADED (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: (traderart)*

Nope sum companies have hinted about making a kit but none so far.
but this shows how someone else fabed it http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=785705


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (FULLE LOADED)*

I am really getting into this thread...the future is NOW







.
My auto swap has started, and it will be plenty strong enough to handle the hp. The problem is it won't be a VW tranny and that is sad http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif. I really wish that there was a factory alternative that is not prohibitively expensive, it sucks that someone would go through the effort of building custom everything to mount VW's SUPPOSEDLY strongest tranny yet and then possibly risk it all by trying t out in any spirited way.


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (B4S)*

wich one are you fitting? have you change some parts inside to hold the torque. Good idea for extreme condition of racing but everyday driving, would be too boring. Good luck guess we won't see at the track this year.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (euroroccoT)*

>>but everyday driving, would be too boring.<<
That's a misconception when you're talking about a built automatic.
You can take off under plenty of boost,you still have to shift and the boost never leaves the intake manifold till you're done.What could be boring about that?


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## euroroccoT (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

Maybe i just like the "H" alot, it's when i raced 125cc shifter karts, you can get same speed out of a rotax but it's a 2 speed auto, i just like shifting on the kart, same with my car, but that's just me i guess.


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## 81 vw pickup (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (MeGaMoNk_turbo)*

i am in the proccess of building up an auto tranny for a vw so far it looks verry promising ...they will be cheap (realativly) available and hopefully durable...stay tunned hoping it will work for consistant 9 sec passes if i can go that fast the only big holdback is the diff i will be running stock welded to see how the clutches and sprag fair before having spools made....


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (81 vw pickup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *81 vw pickup* »_i am in the proccess of building up an auto tranny for a vw so far it looks verry promising ...they will be cheap (realativly) available and hopefully durable...stay tunned hoping it will work for consistant 9 sec passes if i can go that fast the only big holdback is the diff i will be running stock welded to see how the clutches and sprag fair before having spools made....

What tranny is it? The 010, 01M, or newer? What year car is it from?


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## 81 vw pickup (Dec 21, 2001)

*Re: (B4S)*

i hate to be shady but im not willing to give out ant real info till i can test the tranny ...fortunatly there is a local freind with a machine shop willing to make chromoly peices for the trans,and another who is a domestic tranny builder working on this with me.. ..its an early deisil 3 speed


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (81 vw pickup)*

No problem dude, I've decided to stay away from the VW auto anyway even though it would be waaaaaaaay easier to install. I am just not able to pioneer anything right now, money doesn't grow on trees out here right now. Perhaps in a few months







.
I'd still be very interested in knowing the results of your work though, if possible. The VW auto is (in my books) still viable, just needs love







.


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## QuickBlackGTi (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (B4S)*

Its good to see people looking for other alternative for high HP cars. I think that if we could pull together on some of these project instead of sitting on info then some progress might be made. I know everyone has there secrets but I think we need to talk more to each other and see how we can help. This is for the better good of the VW community. Other people might have different ideas and other people that they know that can help this become a reality. Just my $.02


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (QuickBlackGTi)*

I agree 100%, when I finally get my parts and some pics/work under my belt on the project I will post up my info. There has to be options out there for high HP VWs, but no one has found them yet because no one has really looked. High HP VWs are kinda like UFOs...lot of people have supposedly seen them, but no one has real proof







.


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Hardcore VW)*

Hardcore VW - The 02m trans. is rated from VW at 460 lb.ft. of torque in stock form, which is substantially more than the 02A trans. Also, EIP and HPA are putting a whole bunch of HP thru the 02M, in the R32, with no problems as of yet and it is a much easier swap than the auto transmissions that have been suggested. Just another thought.







- Bob


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Hopefully someone can test them by putting a bunch of good 60ft's on them then.Big slicks and sub 1.8 60fts are what usually kills gears.Don't get me wrong,I'd love to see some VAG tranny handle the job,but it's going to take more than some dyno numbers matched with street tires to convince me.


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_Hopefully someone can test them by putting a bunch of good 60ft's on them then.Big slicks and sub 1.8 60fts are what usually kills gears.Don't get me wrong,I'd love to see some VAG tranny handle the job,but it's going to take more than some dyno numbers matched with street tires to convince me.

Ill second that!


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

lol i'm gonna try an o2m when this o2a blows up...
who here cryo treats there stuff?


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## passatvr6er (Jul 7, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

i am also building up a auto tranny for a vr turbo drag car, also working with a domestic tranny builder, the tranny is a very common and what is used in the mopar fwd drag car... and i worked all summer at a heat treating plant, so anything i need cryo'd or treated will be.


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## Stephen Webb (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Evolution Marine)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Evolution Marine* »_Hardcore VW - The 02m trans. is rated from VW at 460 lb.ft. of torque in stock form, which is substantially more than the 02A trans. 

Where are you getting the 460 lb.ft figure from? From the little research I have done, the 02M is designed for 350 Nm of torque -- I think that's about 250 or so lb.ft. Am I missing something?
-Steve


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Stephen Webb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephen Webb* »_
Where are you getting the 460 lb.ft figure from? From the little research I have done, the 02M is designed for 350 Nm of torque -- I think that's about 250 or so lb.ft. Am I missing something?
-Steve

That's what I was thinking...


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Those who have been around might also remember that the 02a was supposed to be the guiding light when they came out also.Better than the 020,yes,but still not quite what we're looking for to really get quick short times.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

Like he said. I want sub 2.0's and I don't want to have a truckload of transmissions to do it with.


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## Stephen Webb (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Like he said. I want sub 2.0's and I don't want to have a truckload of transmissions to do it with. 

I hear the Audi 4000 Quattro transmissions are very strong. And 4WD. Figure out how to make that work and you'd get sub 2.0s for sure...








-Steve


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Stephen Webb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stephen Webb* »_
I hear the Audi 4000 Quattro transmissions are very strong. And 4WD. Figure out how to make that work and you'd get sub 2.0s for sure...








-Steve

Quattro is a little much for a drag car IMO...thats a lot of work







.
Got my dodge tranny today...this badboy is going to ROCK! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: The future of modified VW's (Stephen Webb)*

Stephen Webb - Was looking into transmissions that could handle big HP and Kraftswerk Transmissions quoted that number to me. Also mentioned that the 02M weighs about 35 lbs. more than the 02A and the majority of that extra weight went into strengthening the 02m to the point that VW Racing has not made special high strength gear sets for the 02M because they have not needed to. http://www.kraftswerk.com/.







- Bob


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## Flat Black (Jan 27, 2004)

From what I`ve gathered online. the GM 4T65-e transmission found in the Potiac GrandAm and Aztec is a hydro-matic RWD Trans converted to FWD. The GM Sunfire racing program is using 80% of the stock parts and putting down over 1000HP threw this thing. 
Next step getting one to my shop and making it fit. This sounds like the way to go! 
P.S. I now have a 02M FOR SALE.


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## vw16vcabby (Sep 19, 2001)

im w/ hardcore on the automatic path. i been looking now for over a year for a omni trans--no luck. There is no comparison between stick car and automatic. Auto is just so much more consistent--both track and street. 
We need a fwd version of the powerglide. im game for guinea pig-ing whatever.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (Flat Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flat Black* »_From what I`ve gathered online. the GM 4T65-e transmission found in the Potiac GrandAm and Aztec is a hydro-matic RWD Trans converted to FWD. The GM Sunfire racing program is using 80% of the stock parts and putting down over 1000HP threw this thing. 
Next step getting one to my shop and making it fit. This sounds like the way to go! 
P.S. I now have a 02M FOR SALE.

Definitely sounds like a viable option,GM does a TON of R&D and document everything very well.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (vw16vcabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw16vcabby* »_im w/ hardcore on the automatic path. i been looking now for over a year for a omni trans--no luck. There is no comparison between stick car and automatic. Auto is just so much more consistent--both track and street. 
We need a fwd version of the powerglide. im game for guinea pig-ing whatever.

Man that sucks, I looked for two days before I found my Omni trans. Just happened to be in the right place at the right time I guess.
MmmmmmmmmmmFWD two speed powerglide.....


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## QuickBlackGTi (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*

OK i've been following this thread with alot of interest and was talk with my brother about it. Here area just a few questions asked by him
1: Has anyone ever looked for parts(guts) to be swapped into a VW trans from other companies? GM, Porsche Audi
ex. clutch packs, shaft etc etc
2: Has anyone explored the point of getting stuff made for the auto trans?
ex. clutch packs, shaft etc etc
There was a couple more but they have slipped my mine at the moment. I told him that if you could get an auto trans to hold up to 600-800 HP and last all season with out a rebuild that you would have a product that would sell. Since he is a domestic car nut, he think that shouldnt be too much of a problem. But I have talked to him that its a bit different with having the power to the front wheels instead of the rear. There was a few other things we talk about to help find a better solution. THere are a few people that he is going to talk to and I'm going to look farther into this subject. 



_Modified by QuickBlackGTi at 11:57 PM 9-10-2004_


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## slowgti (Jul 15, 2003)

bump for learnin'


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (QuickBlackGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *QuickBlackGTi* »_OK i've been following this thread with alot of interest and was talk with my brother about it. Here area just a few questions asked by him
1: Has anyone ever looked for parts(guts) to be swapped into a VW trans from other companies? GM, Porsche Audi
ex. clutch packs, shaft etc etc
2: Has anyone explored the point of getting stuff made for the auto trans?
ex. clutch packs, shaft etc etc

_Modified by QuickBlackGTi at 11:57 PM 9-10-2004_

I have done some basic research into the VW auto buildup, but found absolutely nothing at all in the aftermarket for the early 3 speed tranny (which would be easiest to run, no TCU). I was considering calling some local tranny shops to see what could be done, as we have some kick ass muscle car shops up here, but in the end it came out to be prohibitively expensive for no guarantees. I'm not in the financial position to blow all my money on R&D right now so I passed on the idea. As for other VAG auto boxes to donate parts....they all seem to have the same rep. Disposible








.
It was easier to hunt down the elusive VW/Dodge auto box and go from there. I can get whatever I want for that setup







.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Wait till you see the inarrds of a mopar tranny....it's very comforting


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_Wait till you see the inarrds of a mopar tranny....it's very comforting

Yeah, I'm no Mopar newb (owned two LeBaron Turbos...an 86 T1 5speed and an 89 T2 5speed), but the auto is a foreign creature to me. I've been reading everything I can and it looks like there is hardly anything inside that case!








Thank you Dodge for making it simple http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


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## vw16vcabby (Sep 19, 2001)

*Re: (B4S)*

I finally scored one, just gotta pick it up. cost me a case of cheap beer.


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## K.I.M. (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (vw16vcabby)*

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=993365


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## QuickBlackGTi (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (K.I.M.)*

This is what I'm talking about. Someone needs to step up and say something that it might be able to bolt up to a VW engine since it rotates different than the Honda. I would pay $5000 for a trans that can hold over 700HP to the wheel and last all season whithout a rebuild.


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

nothing an adapterplate and some custom axles wont fix.


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## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_nothing an adapterplate and some custom axles wont fix.


exactly- that is the route i am going w/ my rwd, using nissan because of accesability & ease since the guy making my adapter plate has all the nissan specs, hell, i get indepedant rear suspension to boot


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