# The Frankenturbo setup thread



## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

There are so many ways to rock a Frankenturbo it really needs its own thread, So if you own a FrankenTurbo setup post your results HERE.

include: 
Your vehicle. 1.8t golf, TT, S4...etc
Your FT turbo kit, f23, f21...etc
Supporting mods, FMIC, Powergasket, 415cc injectors, TUNE...etc
current power output. not required but would be helpful.

pics always welcome


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

01 Audi TT AWP 180hp quattro









I have the f21 kit

My suporting mads are: a Powergasket, 415cc usrt injectors, custom made cat-less 3" cherrybomb votex turbo back exhaust, ebay downpipe, custom short ram intake with X-large filter, Voodo MBC, synchronic BOV relocated, 225 TT maf housing, properly installed catch-can. sai-evap-bs delete. and a Unitronic frankenturbo Tune. 22psi 

still to come: FMIC

started here








now we here


















she ran a 14.03sec 1/4mile @ est3400lbs it was a hot day i think with a fmic she would have run 13s easy


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

- *Vehicle:* 2003 20th Anni GTi 
- *FT turbo kit:* F23
- *Supporting mods:* EV-14 550cc's on Maestro, AutoTech Fuel rail, "Phatty" TIP, 3in MAF housing, OEM Ex Mani w/ FT Adapter, 3in Eurojet Turboback, Forge SuperDV, Eurojet Race FMIC, 2.0 Coils, BoostValve Kit, evap/sai Delete, 034 catchcan, Spec Stg3+ Clutch, 034motorsports LW FW
- *Power output:* EST 280-300hp/tq (for now)

*Pre assembled:*









*Everything all stuffed in...*


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Overbuilt F23 with everything and then some:

AWW block with 19mm drop in rods
AEB head with Ferrea exhaust valves, Martindale Exhaust Cam and IE Intake Cam
Custom Short Runner Intake Manifold with 70MM throttle body
Snow performance WMI 3 nozzle 
Dual Pass intercooler 
JBS Exhaust manifold ported by me
F23 Port matched to the manifold
D585 Yukon LS2 ignition coil setup
Peloquin LSD
245/40/17 sticky tires on Kosei K1TS
Tuned by me via Maestro with custom 900cc EV-14 injectors (soon Genesis 2 by USRT)
33mpg highway (via lean cruise) and about 350whp and a nice fat powerband on pump gas! No complaint!


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Looks promising...FAQ'd under turbo kits


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

*2002 VW 337
*F4T, Highflow manifold, 3"maf with phatty TIP
*GONZO FT 440cc custom file(switched from Uni Stage2+ FT file and it was the best decision ever!)
*AEB head, IE 19mm rods,IE manual tensioner with gates belt, IE adapters with FSI coils
*ABD intake manifold,powder coated, ported and gasket matched(to small port specs) with 034 transition spacer
*Autotech CAI and Tbody hose
*Madmax Diverter valve:thumbup:
*USRT intake fuel pump(much better than the APR I had)
*Ross machine fuel rail with Aeromotive adjustable fpr with stainless lines
*Forced Performance BIG sidemount IC with ABD IC pipe and ABD fender liner vent
*Snow stage 2 Boost cooler maf based controller, USRT Tbody plate running 225cc post IC & 100cc post Tbody & 60cc post turbo
*42 draft designs ultimate catch can
*42 draft designs 3" turbo back no cat
*Auber EGT, Innovative wideband O2, Aquamist DDS3v10 flow monitoring and New South 30psi boost guage
*Items on the shelf waiting to be installed on the car...Peloquin LSD, 4 custom WMI nozzles and 42dd modified vacuum manifold for direct port water injection.


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

TTT lets keep it going


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

Twopnt016v said:


> *2002 VW 337
> *F4T, Highflow manifold, 3"maf with phatty TIP
> *Uni stage 2+ 440cc beta file with Bosch green giant injectors
> *AEB head, IE 19mm rods,IE manual tensioner with gates belt, IE adapters with FSI coils
> ...


My question is with all that investment , how much power are you making and why not the f23 instead?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> My question is with all that investment , how much power are you making and why not the f23 instead?


This isn't my first build so I have a good amount of parts laying around from other builds that went onto this car. Its not like I purchased all these parts for this build. I chose the F4T over the F23 because the initial cost was less I didn't want to sink a lot of money into a smaller frame turbo since the plan is to put a bigger turbo on the car. Plus it is my daily so the down time needed to be kept to a minimum at the time. I work on german sleds for a living so my time is spread thin with work and other peoples projects.I've basically been having fun with the F4T while building the car up in the mean while. Soon I will change turbos and the car will already be ready for what ever I want to throw at it. As for power the car made 280hp and right under 300ftlbs with a small port head, wmi and timing advance. While this is not a big turbo build it is fun and has torque on demand. :beer:


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## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

F23
Bosch 550 injectors
Dual nozzle w/m injection
Eurojet FMIC
High flow 034 motorsports exhaust manifold
stock rods 
Eurodyne Maestro (magic Spartiati tuned :laugh


287whp, 290ft/lbs (18psi)


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## Nateness (Jun 25, 2010)

F21
91 Octane Pump Fuel
2001 A4 Quattro Manual
1984cc block (82.5 pistons x 92.8 stroke)
AEB Head w/ +1mm oversized intake and exhaust valves
Supertech Valve Springs
Stock AEB Intake Manifold
034 Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer
Frankenturbo Inlet Hose
Audi TT225 MAF Housing
APR Air Box modified to fit TT225 MAF
Evolution Racewerks Competition FMIC
APR R1 Diverter Valve (Replaced w/ Synapse DV after initial dyno-tune)
Frankenturbo Ceramic Coated Exhaust Manifold
034 3" HFC (Ceramic Coated)
034 3" Cat-Back Exhaust, dual in-line mufflers
CM FX300 240mm clutch w/ 19lb steel flywheel
034 Motorsport Custom ME7 ECU Tune
Bosch EV14 550cc Injectors
Bosch 044 Fuel Pump


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

thats a pretty nice torque curve! Bet it goes well with AWD


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

ooooooo! I like! opcorn:


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Anyone besides Doug and Spartini running Cams?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

woodywoods86 said:


> Anyone besides Doug and Spartini running Cams?


I put a autotech intake cam in when I did the AEB head swap but I felt too much of a loss of low end torque so I removed it and the low end came back...


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Twopnt016v said:


> I put a autotech intake cam in when I did the AEB head swap but I felt too much of a loss of low end torque so I removed it and the low end came back...


Hmmm... Yeah Doug said he got low losses too. Kinda expect that. I was looking at IE street cams. 

I wonder if the loss down low is worth the gain up top.


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## Nateness (Jun 25, 2010)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> thats a pretty nice torque curve! Bet it goes well with AWD


Feels strong on the surface street and on-ramps. Not so much when accelerating from a roll on the highway....

The dyno was with 20 PSI peak. In reality, the car made 23 PSI on the street. After I replaced the APR R1 diverter valve with the Synapse DV, the peak boost pressure increased to 27 PSI. I'm due to head back to 034 for a retune and maybe a couple of other bolt on additions.


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

mk4boost said:


> F23
> Bosch 550 injectors
> Dual nozzle w/m injection
> Eurojet FMIC
> ...


Are you going to increase the PSI after drop-in rod? Or are you just going to tempt fate


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## Nateness (Jun 25, 2010)

woodywoods86 said:


> Anyone besides Doug and Spartini running Cams?


I've got a set of Marindale cams that I will be installing. I'm hoping that the 034 longitudinal intake manifold will be available soon so I can install both together and retune.


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

Yeah, Ive got a set of prototypes as well, Ive got a laundry list of wrenching once I get back from christmas vacation with the wifey.


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## mk4boost (Jul 31, 2010)

woodywoods86 said:


> Are you going to increase the PSI after drop-in rod? Or are you just going to tempt fate


lol been tempting fate for over a year now, but yes I'll be up around 30psi and running e85 eventually... i have a mk1 rabbit I'm putting my focus into right now, it will also be running an f23 on e85... 400whp 400ft/lbs in a 1700lb car will be quiet the fun weekend ride :laugh:


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## asylum (Jan 11, 2000)

woodywoods86 said:


> Anyone besides Doug and Spartini running Cams?



I have a set I'll be putting in soon


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## asylum (Jan 11, 2000)

*2001 VW Golf 1.8t

306whp/297tq

-Stock bottom end
-F23 with highflow manifold
-tuned with Eurodyne Maestro
-3"maf
-inline fuel pump
-550cc Injectors
-IE Intake manifold, transition spacer and 80mm tb
-Autotech CAI 
-APR R1 Diverter valve

**Items waiting to be installed on the car: -Water/Meth kit
-Upgraded IC


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## RodgertheRabit II (Sep 13, 2012)

^^ What high flow manifold are you using?


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

asylum said:


> *2001 VW Golf 1.8t
> 
> 306whp/297tq
> 
> ...


WOW how are you making that kind of power with out W/M installed?


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## asylum (Jan 11, 2000)

RodgertheRabit II said:


> ^^ What high flow manifold are you using?


im using the xs−power


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## asylum (Jan 11, 2000)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> WOW how are you making that kind of power with out W/M installed?


maybe its the high flow exhaust manifold and/or intake manifold that helped. timing isnt set very aggressive at all until the water/meth goes in


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Post pics asylum!


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

I will be running the martindale's and xs-manifold with my F23 setup. My car is going to Eurotech Performance Group in Marietta GA in 2 weeks to get everything installed and tuned via maestro to start drag racing in the spring for Beat the Heat!!

No pics, but this is what I will be running:
F23 Turbo
Divertinator DV
Injector Dynamics 725cc injectors
Martindale Cams
XS-Power exhaust manifold
2.0T coils with INA Adapters
INA Engineering in tank fuel pump
Eurojet SMIC with dual smic setup from eurospec
S4 Throttle Body
S4 Maf
AEB Head
Custom catch can with -10 AN pressure line
3" exhaust (no cat)
Phatty TIP
DM Forged Rods
Looking into an intake manifold right now. Thinking about waiting on the 034 Intake Mani


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

mk4boost said:


> lol been tempting fate for over a year now, but yes I'll be up around 30psi and running e85 eventually... i have a mk1 rabbit I'm putting my focus into right now, it will also be running an f23 on e85... 400whp 400ft/lbs in a 1700lb car will be quiet the fun weekend ride :laugh:


:laugh: ridiculousness


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

more need more lolopcorn:


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## ausredliner (Oct 20, 2012)

My car is in the workshop at the moment being built.
Hope to get it on the road in about two to three weeks.
It is a VW Polo GTI 2006.
Installing:

Bought a crate AGU motor with AEB head
IE 2.0l stroker kit
F23
3"maf with phatty TIP
DNA custom software
Bosch EV14 550cc Injectors
Bosch 044 Fuel Pump
Relentless V3 ceramic coated manifold.
Phenolic Intake Manifold Spacer
Standard intake manifold for now
THS dual pass intercooler
Forge dv008 diverter
Wavetrac LSD
42 draft designs stealth catch can
Custom 3in turbo back exhaust
Ebay 3in Carbon CAI

Maybe Doug can help out with some Martindales at a later stage.

Polo's only weigh 1190 kg, about 2600lbs so it should be fun


A couple of older pics. More once build is done.


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## leonardodecappiccuno (Oct 17, 2008)

My 2002 18T AWU Bug
F4t-h, 3" MAF, forge 007 DV
JBS exhaust mani
19mm forged THS rods
Peloquin LSD
Tyrolsport converted AWIC
3" milltek exhaust with sport cat
Just off RR on Sat 2nd Feb 
253 BHP and 303 torque
386cc injectors with custom remap

ps nearly forgot to mention the 044 bosch fuel pump
and 034 sport surge tank


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## jasn78 (Apr 15, 2007)

ausredliner said:


> My car is in the workshop at the moment being built.
> Hope to get it on the road in about two to three weeks.
> It is a VW Polo GTI 2006.
> Installing:
> ...


and that is the car i expect to beat my 1/4 time for fastest polo in aus  making me salivate redliner.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^:heart: POLO:heart::thumbup:


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## joeyyphillips (Apr 17, 2012)

wish this thread was still kicking. would love to see some more setups and results, i ordered my f21 transversal kit. cant wait for it to come. 

:heart:


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## vectortyen (Jun 15, 2005)

*Any potential benefit to a high flow fuel pump with the F21 FT Base Tune (Stage 2+)*

Just curious, if there is anyone out there running a high flow fuel pump with the base uni ft (F4/F21) tune, and if there are any benefits over keeping the oem fuel pump. Currently I am undecided on whether i'm going to upgrade the stock block, so just trying to squeeze all I can out of it...within the limits of the stock block of course... basically looking for power gains in the higher rpms...


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

vectortyen said:


> Just curious, if there is anyone out there running a high flow fuel pump with the base uni ft (F4/F21) tune, and if there are any benefits over keeping the oem fuel pump. Currently I am undecided on whether i'm going to upgrade the stock block, so just trying to squeeze all I can out of it...within the limits of the stock block of course... basically looking for power gains in the higher rpms...


No benefit unless your current fuel pump is inadequate. Log some full throttle pulls and monitor injector duty cycle and Lambda.


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## vectortyen (Jun 15, 2005)

Thanks spartiati, much appreciated :beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

vectortyen said:


> Thanks spartiati, much appreciated :beer:


Plus if you are running the stock pump and have a high milage car it wouldnt be a bad idea to get a genesis intake pump from USRT. I was having fueling problems with my stock pump at 90k...USRT pump took care of that...keep an eye on those logs...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

A mid-range pump upgrade, the USRT in-tank unit pairs nicely to any F21T build. It is capable of supporting 300bhp, even at an elevated 4bar fuel rail pressure. Plus it is a simple replacement for the pump hardware in your Mk4 car.


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## vectortyen (Jun 15, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback guys, it looks like i will be giving this additional consideration as i hadnt even thought about the wear my stock unit has on it (+108k and counting)


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Doug, what are you seeing as far as setups, for the guys with Longitundinals? I'm looking for a little something more in my B5 A4.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

F23
IE rods
Gonzo tune stgIII/E85
Lots of other stuff in my sig. No dyno numbers yet. Still getting everything dialed. Right now Im pushing 27-28psi.
Forge WG actuator (pretty necessary)


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## War Machine (Jun 30, 2011)

in my old mk3

2001 AWD 20v. Converted to ME7.1 wideband.
Stock internals
eurospot dv
No ac
No ps
Cold air intake
New south power gasket
Fmic kit
Deleted evap/combi/n249
3" turbo back, no cat
550cc injectors (440 is a typo)
Walbro 255 inline pump
F21 kit
Custom tune locally

262whp 290lbs.


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

Ported F23
Dm Forged/INA Engineering 2.0L Stroker
AEB large port heat with martindale cams from Doug
Relentless V3 exhaust mani
SEM large port intake with audi s4 tb
60-62mm intercooler piping up until the tb where it change to 3" for about 1 foot
Garrett 500hp intercooler
USP Race Exhaust
ID725's
E85

No numbers yet. Car should be running by next week or the week after. Dyno and logging soon after.


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## War Machine (Jun 30, 2011)

It seems like most people run MBC and bypass the N75 mechanically. Why? My setup used the N75, no MBC, No surging, no spiking, worked like OEM.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

War Machine said:


> It seems like most people run MBC and bypass the N75 mechanically. Why? My setup used the N75, no MBC, No surging, no spiking, worked like OEM.


Its all in the tune and also the wastegate actuators are having some issue/not being set properly. Its sorta hit or mis. Gonzo was able to tun my car without the MBC where I needed it with the Unitronic tune.


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## War Machine (Jun 30, 2011)

Twopnt016v said:


> Its all in the tune and also the wastegate actuators are having some issue/not being set properly. Its sorta hit or mis. Gonzo was able to tun my car without the MBC where I needed it with the Unitronic tune.


First thing my tuner did was check WG pressure via no n75 lol What issues are going on with them?


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

2002 vw gti
awp block w/aeb pistons and 20mm forged rods
aeb head
stock ported intake manifold w/newsouth gasket
f23 w/FT tubular manifold
FT phatty inlet pipe
3" catless turbo-back
eurojet FMIC
devilsown w/m single nozzle
siemens 630cc injectors
eurodyne maestro

have pics of the setup i'll add later


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

will be posting a pic of mine soon


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

spartiati said:


> Overbuilt F23 with everything and then some:
> 
> AWW block with 19mm drop in rods
> AEB head with Ferrea exhaust valves, Martindale Exhaust Cam and IE Intake Cam
> ...


900cc injectors on pump gas? How are you not super rich?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> 900cc injectors on pump gas? How are you not super rich?


Matt he's using Maestro :thumbup:


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## MrAkalin (Jan 4, 2011)

Check my sig.

A sorta-helpful pic of the bay ic::wave:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Correct I am tuning via Maestro

I upgraded/downgraded? to the 630 genesis 2 injectors. I originally went with 850's in hopes they would bring e85 closer to me. With that said the nearest station is 35 miles away from me. It never really was realistic so I went with the smaller injectors in hopes of gaining low pulsewidth tunability and better atomization. No real issues with either setup I was running. Just waiting on the Gen2 pump to crank up the boost again.

Tried to PM you but your inbox is full. Here is the message I would have sent:

Hey buddy. the fueling isn't that big of an issue if everything is dialed in. You can run 900's on a stock turbo and not have it over fuel if calibrated properly. Not saying that it is ideal but it's absolutely possible. Tuning them is pretty straight forward. I zero out all of the table correction. Main fuel, injector and mass air flow corrections all set to 1.001. Then set the BVC values to whatever the manufacturer has them rated to. After this install and run the injectors using the injector wizard. You will have a decent amount of corrections all over the place. They should hopefully be on the same side of zero (all + or all -). From there use the general corrections that are happening everywhere to correct the Injector constant. If you see that in general it is ADDING 10% (give or take) everywhere, then you SUBTRACT 10% to the injector constant. You ADD the same percent to the Injector constant if it is SUBTRACTING fuel everywhere.

So if you think about it, by making the injector constant smaller, the ecu thinks it has smaller injectors than it actually does. That will make it inject more fuel that it thinks its getting. You keep doing this with logs and correcting the injector constant until you have almost all the correctiong between 0 and -10. I like it pulling alittle fuel so it has room to add fuel in case of something goes wrong. 

Once you get it here then proceed to tune for -5 fuel pull everywhere using the tracer and Injector corrections table. You can never achieve a perfect 0 correction everywhere so don't kill yourself! 

All of this is assuming you are using the correct throttle body and airflow tables. If I remember the APR manifold is tapped for a r32 throttle body. That would be 75mm Inner Diameter. If this is the case then you have to tune for the Alpha N tables as well as Throttle angle vs airflow (they mirror each other). 

I had no problems with the 850's. I switched to run the G2 630's. Waiting on the Gen 2 pump as well as the Gen 1 pump is not enough for my power level. In regards to the water meth injection, I've been running an Atypical 3 nozzle setup as well. I have been tossing around the idea of going for a direct port water meth setup and eliminating my Post IC and Pre IC nozzles. We shall see as I have some projects I still need to get done on my car before Grad school begins. 

Hope this helps!


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## MrAkalin (Jan 4, 2011)

spartiati said:


> Pm'd
> 
> Correct I am tuning via Maestro
> 
> I upgraded/downgraded? to the 630 genesis 2 injectors. I originally went with 850's in hopes they would bring e85 closer to me. With that said the nearest station is 35 miles away from me. It never really was realistic so I went with the smaller injectors in hopes of gaining low pulsewidth tunability and better atomization. No real issues with either setup I was running. Just waiting on the Gen2 pump to crank up the boost again.


I'd love to see what some E would do to your set up. Talk about waking it up


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

MrAkalin said:


> I'd love to see what some E would do to your set up. Talk about waking it up


With a fuel pump upgrade and e85 I'm sure I can touch the 400whp mark. I will be making a new post with a dyno after I finish some little projects I have in store for the car. I'm thinking I can get to 365-370whp without e85. I've got somethings up my sleeve.


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## woteg (Apr 7, 2009)

2005 gli
f4t - exhaust manifold, TIP
415cc uni 2+ ft tune
USRT intank
BPi flowstack
034 im spacer
eurocustoms fmic
forge 008 DV
snow performance stg2 w/m - USRT tb spacer
MBC in parallel with n75
3" dp -> 2.5" catless
southbend stg5 clutch


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

Spartiati, I am hoping to be right up there with you, with my 2.0 stroker and E85 with the F23. Next season I am sending my sem to usrt to have them drill and tap for direct port to run with the E85 as well. I plan on running Eurodyne's Boost manager plus. 

I am waiting on Issam's new intank pump to come in, but UPS sucks coming from Canada.lol As soon as it comes in I am going to get the car cranking. I am picking up about 10 gallons of E85 this week on my way to work just for tuning and engine break in. 

Tomorrow and Monday though, I am working on the race seat and the Ultimate Power/Ground/Switch Kit Groggory made for me. And also getting the dual surge tank installed.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Beat the Heat said:


> Spartiati, I am hoping to be right up there with you, with my 2.0 stroker and E85 with the F23. Next season I am sending my sem to usrt to have them drill and tap for direct port to run with the E85 as well. I plan on running Eurodyne's Boost manager plus.
> 
> I am waiting on Issam's new intank pump to come in, but UPS sucks coming from Canada.lol As soon as it comes in I am going to get the car cranking. I am picking up about 10 gallons of E85 this week on my way to work just for tuning and engine break in.
> 
> Tomorrow and Monday though, I am working on the race seat and the Ultimate Power/Ground/Switch Kit Groggory made for me. And also getting the dual surge tank installed.


My inbox is open. I'll help any way I can.


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

I most definitely will be using it. Be prepared. Haha!!!


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Beat the Heat said:


> I most definitely will be using it. Be prepared. Haha!!!


AND IT BEGINS!!!!!! lol


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## booster_ginster98 (May 14, 2010)

Loving this thread. And the amount of knowledge and help spartiati is offering up. May have to hit you up with some questions getting mine fine tuned. It runs great right now but I think I'm still running pretty damn rich. Will have my wideband here this week and gonna try to get the fueling sorted.


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## pxm045000 (Jan 24, 2011)

01 AWD engine converted to wideband w/ AWP ECM

F21 FT kit, everything
-415 cc genesis injectors w/ 4bar fpr
- 2.0t coilpacks
- 3 inch downpipe to 2.5 techtonics
- all emissions deleted, SAI everything
- Pwrhaus SMIC
- Intake Manifold Pwr gasket
- Neuspeed VR6 SRI
- ECS pulley kit all of them
- Neuspeed lower intercooler pipe
- Unitronics FT stage 2 tune for AWP ECM's










I am pretty happy with the tune, but need to make a few changes to AFR for sure as it never gets below 11.8 and seems to be loosing boost at about 6k rpms I about 100% sure its wastgate as I am getting the rattle, Doug sent me replacement but decided to go ahead and run a Forge Ko3/Ko3s wastegate actuator instead and send his back. I hold 20 psi of boost perfect until about 6k like I said and turbo response is slow to spool, not till about 4k do I get full boost.

I need to upgrade my fuel pump for sure, and get wastegate swapped out as I am suspecting that it is the route of my slow spool because it will pop to 5 psi at 2500 rpm then drop off then come on again at about 3500 rpm and pull till 6k easily dyno shows this pretty well.

I have boost gauge and holds perfect -20 psi at idle and checked every hose for leak and have note, so will start fine tuning everything from here on out.

I am probably going to get Maestro Tuning from Eurodyne and tweak my tune I have as and then once I get it maxed out I will probably move to a 3071, but all in all I am very happy with the kit its self it really really moves on the highway.

Oh and first numbers are from stock narrowband tune with bolt-ons and stock turbo.


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## ballergti (Nov 17, 2010)

F21 turbo
High flow manifold
Big TIP
007 DV 
3in MAF housing(stock awp sensor)
P-flow intake 
3in TBE
550cc genesis injectors
FMIC
Gonzo tune (just mailed it out for reflash)

Should I run a walbro inline fuel pump from usrt? My stock pump has a little over 150k and dont have a A/F gauge to tell if I run lean or not. Would you guys recommend I throw a inline in my setup? Also gonna get w/m in a couple weeks what kit and size nozzles should I run?


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

pxm045000 said:


> 01 AWD engine converted to wideband w/ AWP ECM
> 
> F21 FT kit, everything
> -415 cc genesis injectors w/ 4bar fpr
> ...


I'm not trying to be a díck here... but, wtf? 

Are you missing a dyno sheet? You realize you're making 50whp less than a maxed out K03S and around 40whp less than a normal K03S tune. 

Something is VERY wrong here and you should fix it. There's no reason to be happy with anything you're showing us. NONE. 

Think of it this way, you paid how much for software and hardware for what gain? I made 40more whp on stock turbo with a bad N75 and a way too big w/m nozzle. 

You should be making a lot more power than this. Find the problem. :wave:


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## mattryan1.8t (Mar 12, 2011)

awesome thread :beer:


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## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> I'm not trying to be a díck here... but, wtf?
> 
> Are you missing a dyno sheet? You realize you're making 50whp less than a maxed out K03S and around 40whp less than a normal K03S tune.
> 
> ...


I thought I was the only one that noticed that. :what:


----------



## woodywoods86 (Jul 29, 2008)

Here are some dyno charts for you compare:

Various AWD Dyno Charts


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

In the process of an F23 project. GLI, Brute rods, Wiseco pistons, 4bar, fuel pump-TBD, Ford 47# injectors, and a single w/m nozzle post TB. I'm gonna try a bleed style Forge MBC. Tune will be with Dave @ http://www.motozaperformance.com/ FT setup consisting of Phatty pipe, 3" MAF, oil lines, up pipe, F23, and manifold. Motor work is done and am waiting on FT shipment to arrive. Then I'll be waiting on some spare time to install it all. A set of BFI's green motor and dogbone mounts to hold it in the engine bay. I'll see what happens. Car has been down for a year collecting dust while I collected parts and time.


----------



## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

I know that feeling. Try a year and a half of building. It was well worth it though. I am finally getting some professional tuning done very very soon. Hopefully with very good results.


----------



## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

updated pics on 2nd post


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

What is the valve cover and intake mani painted with?



taverncustoms said:


> 01 Audi TT AWP


----------



## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

Brake Weight said:


> What is the valve cover and intake mani painted with?


Powdercoat wrikle black


----------



## ballergti (Nov 17, 2010)

Instead of paying a ton for powdercoat just get a can of textured black or truck bed liner. That's whatbi did and looks honestly identical to his above for way cheaper.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ballergti said:


> Instead of paying a ton for powdercoat just get a can of textured black or truck bed liner. That's whatbi did and looks honestly identical to his above for way cheaper.


Get VHT wrinkle coat. Looks the same and lasts forever if prepped well. 

http://www.vhtpaint.com/products/wrinkleplus/


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

ballergti said:


> Instead of paying a ton for powdercoat just get a can of textured black or truck bed liner. That's whatbi did and looks honestly identical to his above for way cheaper.


mine was free  came with an engine i bought. but this stuff is tough. i like it alot.


----------



## ballergti (Nov 17, 2010)

DMVDUB said:


> Get VHT wrinkle coat. Looks the same and lasts forever if prepped well.
> 
> http://www.vhtpaint.com/products/wrinkleplus/


This is exactly what I used! Got it at autozone for 9 bucks.


----------



## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Rust-oleum Truck Bed Coating in the rattlecan. I was curious how it holds up to the heat of the engine bay. The back of a truck gets damned hot down here near the third coast.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Nice. :thumbup:


----------



## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

*F21 with 850cc injectors*

I am running the F21 with Bosch Ev14 850cc injectors. I bought my 337 like this tuned on E85 and then I went to go switch to the pump gas map that I got from the shop that tuned the car and its crap. Does anyone have a base file for pump gas to get me started?

Thanks in Advance.


----------



## vee_dubb_gti (Nov 17, 2004)

opcorn:


----------



## boostwagon23 (May 26, 2014)

2005 GLI 1.8t, this is so far what I got in it.

F23 kit
"Chinafold" mani 
Phatty tip
Sepertech complete valve train
Stock bore wiseco pistons
IE forged rods 144x20 
IE manual tensioner
Cat-less Eurojet 3" turbocack
wavetrac lsd
steel shift forks
South Bend stg 1 clutch/ OE flywheel for now
B&M short shifter kit
Ecs lightweight pulley/timing belt kit
ecs 2.0t coil pack conversion
tial QR BOV
carbonio CAI
IE catch can kit
mishioto radiator 
Euro Sport FMIC

its still all apart lol due to some wiring issues due to the bay clean up, but soon to be put together!


----------



## mushroom_curry (Apr 21, 2004)

Question...


If I'm running a stock AEB drive-by-cable setup (no wideband?) and I build out the following:

- Longitudinal F21L kit
- decat
- 2.5" TT exhaust 
- Revo Stage 3 w/ 550cc
- front mount

Can I expect to see in the 250-270hp neighbourhood? Are there better tunes out there to get to this power level instead of Revo for the drive-by-cable AEB setups?

Any help greatly appreciated. Thanks!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Can you point us to a website or product page for this Revo file? It's intended for the narrow-band AEB engine's ECU?


----------



## mushroom_curry (Apr 21, 2004)

It's the REVO stage 3 with 550cc for gt28rs as listed on their website for 150hp 1.8ts.

Yes the f21L isn't a gt28rs but flows a lot like one, and wouldnt end up with high EGTs , and would be fairly driveable as far as power spikes and power delivery goes.

But yes to answer your question its for the narrow band ecu. I have a 1999 Passat.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk


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## neru (Oct 22, 2011)

Frankenturbo f23
Mahle pistons slightly bigger bore 1.9l
Dm forged rods 
Quaife lsd
550cc injectors 
034 surge tank with Bosch 044
3 inch down pipe with 100cell cat 
Fmic 
Fluid damper 
2.0t coils 

Cars has been sitting in the garage for 2 years. Struggling to get all the welding down, engine and transmission complete


----------



## clarke14 (Apr 25, 2012)

Has anyone ran water/meth kit with their f21 kit? I have the f21 kit, IE rods, new bearings, piston rings yadayada... 
With the stage 2+ unitronic F21 file. Would I need to get that added on to my ecu?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

clarke14 said:


> Has anyone ran water/meth kit with their f21 kit? I have the f21 kit, IE rods, new bearings, piston rings yadayada...
> With the stage 2+ unitronic F21 file. Would I need to get that added on to my ecu?


We'll be dyno testing the MixedFlow F21T with a new nozzle fixture just developed by USRT. It utilizes very small nozzles for an extremely fine spray. 











Here's a look at the "nozzle block" which gets fitted to a post-throttle spacer. This is at 1000psi. Very high pressure. But the flow here is 300ml/minute.


----------



## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

New setup is almost done. Ice tank is mounted, just need to relocate the battery to get the intercooler mounted.


----------



## dblock (Feb 14, 2006)

2001 jetta wolfsburg just hit 212,000 miles
-f23 frankenturbo
-gonzos stage 3 tune
-ev14 550's
-3" turbo back with highflow cat
-phatty tip
-228mm vr6 clutch 14lb fw
-reinforced clutch fork/short shifter and 42dd bushings
-genesis 2 intank fuel pump
-Eurojet dv
-Eurojet fmic street
-all emissions deleted and tune runs 22psi till redline. Stock motor. My guess would be around 280-290whp. Pics to follow. Car runs like a top. Alittle rich but that's ok


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Freakcaroline (May 9, 2015)

So I've been posting around for help tuning my AEB 99 A4 on maestro. 

F21, FT Manifold, 3"MAF, forge DV, eBay FMIC, stock injectors.

Anyone have any maps they can send to help? Or help me figure out my current tune via email? Please Help, kinda dead in the water


----------



## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

You are really limited for boost running stock injectors safely. Just get 550's for 135ish $$ and run the base file.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Freakcaroline said:


> So I've been posting around for help tuning my AEB 99 A4 on maestro.
> 
> F21, FT Manifold, 3"MAF, forge DV, eBay FMIC, stock injectors.
> 
> Anyone have any maps they can send to help? Or help me figure out my current tune via email? Please Help, kinda dead in the water


What are you having trouble with? Did you retain the original MAF sensor for use in the new, larger MAF housing? Are you sure the MAF housing you're using is the right one? On an AEB-engine car the sensor bolts need to be running parallel to the airflow. If they're perpendicular, then you have the more-common Mk4 VR6 housing, which will not work.


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

neru said:


>


What manifold is that?


----------



## neru (Oct 22, 2011)

l88m22vette said:


> What manifold is that?


Frankenturbo


----------



## Mic17a (Feb 4, 2013)

Here's my car. 

2004 Jetta GLI
-F21 Frankenturbo
-Eurojet street FMIC
-EV14 550's
-3" Catless turboback exhaust
-ECS tuning dogbone mount
-Walbro 255 fuel pump
-All emissions deleted
-Motoza's tuning (Planning on changing to either Gonzo or Eurodyne whenever I upgrade to a bigger turbo)


























Front bumper is removed for now until I can trim up some of the intercooler piping.


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## daunicorn (Apr 20, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> We'll be dyno testing the MixedFlow F21T with a new nozzle fixture just developed by USRT. It utilizes very small nozzles for an extremely fine spray.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Any pic of this installed yet. Wish they would release stuff on their website for this set up already.


----------



## Tech Monkey (May 6, 2012)

*98 Passat Wagon with F21 Frankenturbo- still sorting it out though*

After 258k miles on my wagon, I fulfilled a bucket list item of rebuilding an engine.

My build:
AEB engine with IE rods, new bearings, rings, exhaust guides and SS valves

ECS LWFW and S4 clutch 

F21 turbo, 3" MAF sensor, 440 Green Giant injectors, BKRE7 plugs at .028" gap and United Motorsports tune

Just changed 30W oil after 60 miles of break in, but getting heavy misfires around 3000rpm with any throttle position above say 20%

I performed a throttle body adaptation. I was getting misfire faults but they haven't returned since I replaced the ICU.

I performed the readiness check with VAG COM which indicates down stream O2 sensor error- not sure that would trigger the misfires though.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Do you have software that'll write out that o2?


----------



## Tech Monkey (May 6, 2012)

Tech Monkey said:


> After 258k miles on my wagon, I fulfilled a bucket list item of rebuilding an engine.
> 
> My build:
> AEB engine with IE rods, new bearings, rings, exhaust guides and SS valves
> ...


Update- I didn't mention that I was also getting P1338 canshaft sensor fault as well. So I just changed out the sensor and that eliminated the CEL/fault and it also cleared up most of the misfire issue. 

Not sure about the software and the O2 fault. I will run another readiness check tomorrow and see if the O2 error repeats.


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## chasingPSI (Oct 27, 2014)

doug[email protected] said:


> We'll be dyno testing the MixedFlow F21T with a new nozzle fixture just developed by USRT. It utilizes very small nozzles for an extremely fine spray.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


THIS is what I've been holding out for. And of course, only you Doug. God damn, keep rockin  

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## chasingPSI (Oct 27, 2014)

Tech Monkey said:


> After 258k miles on my wagon, I fulfilled a bucket list item of rebuilding an engine.
> 
> My build:
> AEB engine with IE rods, new bearings, rings, exhaust guides and SS valves
> ...


Great build. I've noticed a misfire after switching to Castrol 40w. New BKR7E's @ .028". In any gear with over 50% throttle there's a misfire on cylinder 4. Could be the oil? Maybe we should try SeaFoam in case of stuck valves. 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## vee_dubb_gti (Nov 17, 2004)

I guess i can play now

1990 jetta coupe
stock aww
f21 frankenturbo
415 geniesis injectors with 3.5bar fpr
Unitronic stg 2+ frankturbo tune
3" turbo straight pipe
front mount
2.0T coils with BKR7E gapped to .040"
light weight flywheel with vr6 clutch
intake manifold gasket spacer

No dyno results yet, With the stock turbo i put down 224hp and 260tq. Not bad for a 2400lbs car. I would love to get over 250hp/280tq. 

edit for update*


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

chasingPSI said:


> Great build. I've noticed a misfire after switching to Castrol 40w. New BKR7E's @ .028". In any gear with over 50% throttle there's a misfire on cylinder 4. Could be the oil? Maybe we should try SeaFoam in case of stuck valves.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Check for intake and exhaust leaks before you start chasing gremlins like that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## chasingPSI (Oct 27, 2014)

groggory said:


> Check for intake and exhaust leaks before you start chasing gremlins like that.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What exhaust leaks could cause this inconsistency? I hit a dip hard once, maybe damaged the flex pipe? I could see that affecting the turbine pressure.. right?

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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

chasingPSI said:


> What exhaust leaks could cause this inconsistency? I hit a dip hard once, maybe damaged the flex pipe? I could see that affecting the turbine pressure.. right?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Exhaust leaks make for bad oxygen sensor data, which causes all sorts of weirdness. I've learned these computers don't take kindly to any sort of exhaust leak.


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## 2003GTITuner (Mar 13, 2009)

Bringing this thing back to life...For those of you running Martindale intake/exhaust cams, do you have the specs for these? I have a brand new set that I obtained as part of a package deal a few years back that I'm thinking about running


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/1-8-n-a-cams-in-a-1-8t.159131/page-3


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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Sorry to bump this thread but I was wondering what numbers would I expect either running the f21 or f23 kit on my mkiv with 91 octane?? I know it really all depends on the tune but would I really be surpassing 300tq on 91 octane?


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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

My f21 made 290 tq on premium fuel.

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

You can have your tune increase boost gradually at initial onset to prevent boost spikes. 

My friends F23 made 290whp and 290wtrq at 18 psi with a 3" turbo back alone.


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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

That would be a prime set up for stock rods! I was always worried with my f21+26psi on stock rods..

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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Humb1e said:


> That would be a prime set up for stock rods! I was always worried with my f21+26psi on stock rods..
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


If you're spiking to that PSI early on I would be VERY cautious...


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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

Yeah cars gone now and I ran low boost and pump gas for the last few months I owned it. I am considering putting an FT on my current passat though. I believe my seals are starting to go on the k03.

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Hey guys thanks for all the great and informative responses!!! I can only imagine how great it would be running one of those kits... Will definitely make a thread once I get a hold of one!!! Car is a mkiv and at 123k miles... I know it's always a great idea redoing internals and I eventually will but 91 octane I guess really doesn't call for it

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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

Richym13 said:


> Hey guys thanks for all the great and informative responses!!! I can only imagine how great it would be running one of those kits... Will definitely make a thread once I get a hold of one!!! Car is a mkiv and at 123k miles... I know it's always a great idea redoing internals and I eventually will but 91 octane I guess really doesn't call for it
> 
> Sent from my VS986 using Tapatalk


Tuning plays a big part! If you want my vote go f23 

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Humb1e said:


> Tuning plays a big part! If you want my vote go f23
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Dude I've come across great deals on an f21 an f23 but I guess f23 is the better route I'm not looking to necessarily make more than 300 tq but anything close I will,be sincerely happy... Will water methanol really increase my chance of getting those numbers?

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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

I personally wouldn't waste my time. If e85 is available around you I would look into that. 

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Humb1e said:


> I personally wouldn't waste my time. If e85 is available around you I would look into that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


I just did right now there is actually one some 15-20 mins away from me compared to 5 mins or less the one I got lol... I can definitely be tuned in e85 right?

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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

Yeah, just have to go bigger with injectors and fuel pump. Injectors can always be scaled down for pump gas. Make sure whoever tunes can make a mild tune for you that is stock rod safe. I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get 320whp with safe torque out of an f23 on e85.

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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

Give Dave926 a shout. He's a pretty reputable maestro tuner.

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Gotta love the forums keep enlighting me lol... So will the new pump be like a special pump for e85? So basically e85>91 any day huh? 

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Humb1e said:


> Give Dave926 a shout. He's a pretty reputable maestro tuner.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


Oh i Will once the time comes thanks for everything really looking forward to this set up!!!

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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

A lot of them are ethanol compatible. E85 has its pro's and con's. Basically it's going to use 25-30% more fuel on e85 but it also burns cooler, so your egt's will be lower which is always good. Also makes more power and smells great coming out the exhaust. Really the deciding factor for myself is the price comparison. Right now around me with e85 only being about 50 cents cheaper per gallon than premium, I wouldn't run it. 

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Humb1e said:


> A lot of them are ethanol compatible. E85 has its pro's and con's. Basically it's going to use 25-30% more fuel on e85 but it also burns cooler, so your egt's will be lower which is always good. Also makes more power and smells great coming out the exhaust. Really the deciding factor for myself is the price comparison. Right now around me with e85 only being about 50 cents cheaper per gallon than premium, I wouldn't run it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


So e85 is cheaper but to dnt run it? So get a pump that will work both in e85 and 91?

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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

No, because remember you are going to get worse mileage. Pump gas and e85 are not really to be compared in my opinion. E85 is a cheap alternative to race fuel. If your going f23 regardless of the fuel get the deatswerks in tank fuel pump since the Genesis pump by usrt isn't available (the last time I checked). I'm not for the running stock pump with an in line pump under the hood, which is another route to take.

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Ok man i see thanks again!!! Will,definitely keep this in kind

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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

If you're going to travel any with this car, will e85 be an issue to source on the road? Just something to think about. 

I've got an f23, Ford 47# injectors, inline Bosch pump(wish the DW intank was available at that time), 3" MAF housing, fleaBay FMIC, and a basic tune for it. Now the W/M will make all the difference in the world. I've given up on finding methanol lately and just run distilled water and have had zero issues like that. EGTs will get on up there, but the intake temps are nice and cool no matter the temp outside or the EGT.


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## Humb1e (Jan 19, 2012)

Brake Weight said:


> If you're going to travel any with this car, will e85 be an issue to source on the road? Just something to think about.
> 
> I've got an f23, Ford 47# injectors, inline Bosch pump(wish the DW intank was available at that time), 3" MAF housing, fleaBay FMIC, and a basic tune for it. Now the W/M will make all the difference in the world. I've given up on finding methanol lately and just run distilled water and have had zero issues like that. EGTs will get on up there, but the intake temps are nice and cool no matter the temp outside or the EGT.


Finding e85 can be a real pain at times. I turned a 8 hr round trip into a 14 hr round trip once.  wish I would have had my laptop to switch files. Gonzo now offer an e85 file with pump gas filename FT's. IIRC you can switch maps without a lap top. 

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## Richym13 (Feb 2, 2016)

Brake Weight said:


> If you're going to travel any with this car, will e85 be an issue to source on the road? Just something to think about.
> 
> I've got an f23, Ford 47# injectors, inline Bosch pump(wish the DW intank was available at that time), 3" MAF housing, fleaBay FMIC, and a basic tune for it. Now the W/M will make all the difference in the world. I've given up on finding methanol lately and just run distilled water and have had zero issues like that. EGTs will get on up there, but the intake temps are nice and cool no matter the temp outside or the EGT.


Very true man thanks for the heads up... Wm is a good option I'm in the process of sourcing one out too but stock turbo stage 2(off topic) but hey once I do get a hold a frankenturbo there shouldn't be no problem running it again

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## Bann (Aug 1, 2012)

Keep this damn thread alive.

2005 Jetta GLI 1.8T

F23
TT Manifold
440cc GG injectors
Unitronic 2+ FT file (set to 23 psi)
Stock bottom
CTS fmic
Custom intake
Forge DV 008
CTS 3" dp with hfc
Milltek 2.5" exhaust
2.0 coil packs
Deatschwerks HFFP

Looking to switch to Eurodyne 550 file and upgrade both turbo mani and intake mani. So some internal work pistons, rods. 207k on the motor atm. :laugh:

Oh and maybe some w/m in the mix.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

What FPR do you have? Mine is a 4 bar.


----------



## Bann (Aug 1, 2012)

Brake Weight said:


> What FPR do you have? Mine is a 4 bar.


3 bar


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

How much boost are people running on these? I've been running 20psi through the summer heat and turn it up to 25psi when it cools off. I've built my motor but am most concerned about blowing an IC hose off but it hasn't happened yet.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I have a 2-stage MBC and keep things at 15psi for everyday. Flip the switch and I'm at 22psi for a little more fun. 

I use to run 25psi, but I'm plenty happy with my current boost profile. Now that's it's getting cooler outside it's running ridiculously well.


----------



## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

spartiati said:


> I have a 2-stage MBC and keep things at 15psi for everyday. Flip the switch and I'm at 22psi for a little more fun.
> 
> I use to run 25psi, but I'm plenty happy with my current boost profile. Now that's it's getting cooler outside it's running ridiculously well.


Are you still running an AEB head? With a AWP head would I need to run higher boost levels to achieve the same HP as you due to the smaller ports? I am planning on getting a proper tune next year and am trying to figure out what hardware would be best. If I can run lower boost on an AEB head and get the same power as higher boost on an AWP I may have to dig out my AEB and have it rebuilt. Thanks


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

I still have the AEB. I can't say that it would be worth the hassle of rebuilding the AEB to swap in. If you ever have a reason to pull the head, then I would say go for it. Otherwise you would likely get more out of a tune than throwing on a large port head.


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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

spartiati said:


> I still have the AEB. I can't say that it would be worth the hassle of rebuilding the AEB to swap in. If you ever have a reason to pull the head, then I would say go for it. Otherwise you would likely get more out of a tune than throwing on a large port head.




OK. In your experience tuning, do you need more boost with an AWP to achieve the same hp with a AEB? Just curious since your hp #s seem high to me for 22 psi.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Hard to say what you need to run for X HP. From what I've seen, 18psi is good for 280-290whp with a 3" exhaust and fmic


----------



## hallkbrd (Apr 8, 2000)

Anyone have a map for an AWP, TT225 MAF for a F21 in ME7 -or- nefmoto - with working cruise control?

After I had to replace my ECU, I tried again with the updated VVT AWP_G2VVT_Stage3_EV14_550cc_FrankenturboF21_VR6MafHousing base map, and of course it still does not work.

BTW, it's not a hardware problem as the cruise on this stock ECU, unlocked, worked just fine.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

I have a 03 GTI

AWP Motor F21 Frankenturbo
440cc Injectors
4 Bar FPR
Deatschwerks In-Tank HFFP
3" MAF
3" Catless TBE
TacoTaco SMIC
Forge Splitter Valve
Otherwise Stock Motor
22psi 
Motoza Tuning, Best Tune IMO for the setup

Stretched and then threw a rod through the block. Will be rebuilt this winter, rods, bottom end gone over, possible AEB head swpa, curious about everyone else's ideas on how to squeeze out some more power. :wave:


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

BDodsonVR6 said:


> I have a 03 GTI
> 
> AWP Motor F21 Frankenturbo
> 440cc Injectors
> ...


When was your last contact with Dave at Motoza? He stopped replying to me over a year ago. 


#eatthegrasshoppersinstead
#cambrady2017


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## kev41 (Dec 17, 2011)

I'll play

2006 Jetta GLS 1.8T
BEK engine (same as AWP with no SAI)

F23
Revo Stage 3 file (550cc injectors and 2.75'' id maf housing)
42DD VR6 high flow intake (for 3'' od maf housing)
3'' od maf housing (2.75'' id) on stock sensor
Frankenturbo "Phatty" turbo inlet pipe
Eurojet street FMIC rated for 400hp (in order to minimize lag)
Stock intake manifold
Bosch EV14 550cc injectors
Forge diverter valve 008
42DD 3'' turbo-back with high flow cat, with Frankenturbo up-pipe adapter
BoostValve MBC set at 18 psi
OEM 3 bar FPR
Revision E coil packs with IE adapters and NGK BKR7EIX plugs gapped to .044"


----------



## FRANK_N (Jan 15, 2016)

...and??


----------



## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

kev41 said:


> Revision E coil packs with IE adapters and NGK BKR7EIX plugs gapped to .044"


 Don't expect your new coil packs to last long at that HUGE gap. Those coils are the best available, but NONE are good above a .028 gap. Having said that; even if they do perform at that gap, it won't be long before misfires occur, as the packs are strained beyond their intended limits


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Rod Ratio said:


> Don't expect your new coil packs to last long at that HUGE gap. Those coils are the best available, but NONE are good above a .028 gap. Having said that; even if they do perform at that gap, it won't be long before misfires occur, as the packs are strained beyond their intended limits


Quite true. I do believe there was a small thread somewhere on this Forum on converting to LS coils...


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Chickenman35 said:


> Quite true. I do believe there was a small thread somewhere on this Forum on converting to LS coils...


Mmmm Hmmm


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## WyGuy1.8T (Oct 29, 2013)

*My b5.5 F21 Mixed flow setup*

Engine/Trans.:
Motoza Performance Tune (91,93,100,E85)
F21 Mixed flow turbo @20psi 
Frankenturbo manifold 
Frankenturbo turbo inlet pipe
3” MAF
3” cold air intake 
AEM “dryflow” filter
Forge 007 Diverter Valve
Bosch EV14 750cc injectors 
CXRacing FMIC
034 Motorsport test pipe 
034 Motorsport intake manifold spacer 
034 Motorsport Silicone PCV kit
Custom 2.5” MagnaFlow exhaust (res. Delete)
Integrated Engineering catch can
ECS Tuning FSI coil packs
NGK BKR7E plugs (.032 gap)
SAI Delete w/ IE block-off plate 
Suction Jet pump delete 
Stern Motor mounts (stiff poly option)
Stern Trans mount 
BFI snub mount 
Quaife limited slip differential 
Stage 3 “daily” South Bend clutch 



















I don't know the exact power number it was making, but if I had to guess, I'd say around 310whp on e85. 

Here's a vid of a 1/4 mile pass I made. 13.5 @ 105 mph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-fCxaxm6tE


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## MidnightG60 (Aug 16, 2004)

WyGuy1.8T said:


> Engine/Trans.:
> Motoza Performance Tune (91,93,100,E85)
> F21 Mixed flow turbo @20psi
> Frankenturbo manifold
> ...


Nice! I have almost the same setup on my B5 A4, and I went 13.4 @ 104. 

I made 286 awhp on E85, so you're probably right around 310 like you said. 


























Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk


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## kev41 (Dec 17, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> Don't expect your new coil packs to last long at that HUGE gap. Those coils are the best available, but NONE are good above a .028 gap. Having said that; even if they do perform at that gap, it won't be long before misfires occur, as the packs are strained beyond their intended limits


Thanks! I have to replace both the coils and plugs soon. Will try .028 to see how it goes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lorge1989 (Sep 3, 2008)

Humb1e said:


> A lot of them are ethanol compatible. E85 has its pro's and con's. Basically it's going to use 25-30% more fuel on e85 but it also burns cooler, so your egt's will be lower which is always good. Also makes more power and smells great coming out the exhaust. Really the deciding factor for myself is the price comparison. Right now around me with e85 only being about 50 cents cheaper per gallon than premium, I wouldn't run it.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


The only con of corn is availibility imo. So much safer and a lot more power potential.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

lorge1989 said:


> The only con of corn is availibility imo. So much safer and a lot more power potential.


It does eat fuel systems for breakfast though, over time


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## ovalado (Jun 21, 2009)

*nacho GTI*

My GTI F23 Mixed Flow setup

Engine/Trans.:
1,8T AGU 
Wiseco Pistons
IE Forged Rods
Stock Cams and valves
F23 Mixed flow turbo 
Frankenturbo manifold 
Frankenturbo Fatty inlet
3” MAF
3” cold air intake CARBONIO with K&N filter
Frankenturbo Diverter Valve with Forge relocator kit
Bosch 550cc injectors 
DW65v Fuel pump
Eurojet SMIC
Eurojet "delate panckake" pipe 
Custom 3” downpipe and exhaust - SilenPro
NGK BKR7EIX plugs
ClutchMasters FX400 

Not sure if install a DevilsOwn stage2 i already have.

The Car is now on the remaping guy, so I'm waiting the results!
I wish I have news in the next days.opcorn:


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Run the W/M. I mounted my old pump where the blue balls were mounted in front of the passenger door. Your IATs will thank you especially with just a side mount.


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## kev41 (Dec 17, 2011)

Rod Ratio said:


> Don't expect your new coil packs to last long at that HUGE gap. Those coils are the best available, but NONE are good above a .028 gap. Having said that; even if they do perform at that gap, it won't be long before misfires occur, as the packs are strained beyond their intended limits


So I got new plugs and adjusted the gap to .028. The car feels great, much smother now!

Thanks Rod Ratio :beer:


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

kev41 said:


> So I got new plugs and adjusted the gap to .028. The car feels great, much smother now!
> 
> Thanks Rod Ratio


No worries 

It's not uncommon for BT and hybrid turbo guys to go even tighter too, with gaps down to .024 being normal. Generally, as cylinder pressures rise; plug gap gets tightened.


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## kev41 (Dec 17, 2011)

kev41 said:


> 2006 Jetta GLS 1.8T
> BEK engine (same as AWP with no SAI)
> 
> F23
> ...


So the car is now at 20psi with the mbc. Does someone know how much hp or torque the car should be making? I want to know if I should reduce boost or if I can raise it a little bit. Iirc the engine cannot handle more the 300hp with stock internals. Of course I'm asking for round numbers just to have an idea.

Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Mar 28, 2016)

kev41 said:


> So the car is now at 20psi with the mbc. Does someone know how much hp or torque the car should be making? I want to know if I should reduce boost or if I can raise it a little bit. Iirc the engine cannot handle more the 300hp with stock internals. Of course I'm asking for round numbers just to have an idea.
> 
> Thanks!


20psi at what rpm? I make 20+psi on a K03s, I'm certainly not going to be banging on 300. 250+ sure, but not 300. 

And to a previous comment I run my plugs at .040 as the TSI coilpacks were meant to run. We run a lot more boost through a TSI with stock plugs/coilpacks so there is no reason to have to take TSI coilpacks and gap them to what the old crappy oe 1.8T20v coilpacks were supposed to run basically defeated the main upgrade of doing it. This statement does not apply to big turbo apps, but a K04 hyprid is far from a 'big turbo' 

Having the dwell changed for the TSI coilpacks is important for longevity.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

He's running a F23 not a k03. It's not much more but it'll stay spooled longer. My k03 fell below 9psi towards redline and my f23 will not. It's up around 18psi.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

Brake Weight said:


> When was your last contact with Dave at Motoza? He stopped replying to me over a year ago.
> 
> 
> #eatthegrasshoppersinstead
> #cambrady2017



Never saw this until now. I haven't needed to reach out to him in a while. He was always really good at getting back to me. :thumbup:


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## FRANK_N (Jan 15, 2016)

BDodsonVR6 said:


> Never saw this until now. I haven't needed to reach out to him in a while. He was always really good at getting back to me. :thumbup:


Motoza is doing business just as they have from the start. Anyone having trouble reaching them might be the victims of a spam filter.


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## BDodsonVR6 (Apr 12, 2009)

FRANK_N said:


> Motoza is doing business just as they have from the start. Anyone having trouble reaching them might be the victims of a spam filter.


Really great to here. Dave sat on the phone with me once for almost 2 hours getting things ironed out after I changed out injectors and it wasn't running properly. Great people. I'm definitely Pro-Motoza their cable to run logs on the go and send that info is great, also lets you see alot of information you otherwise wouldn't be able to, to adjust. (If you go that deep with it). Very good compromise to Eurodyne Meastro.


While I'm here, figured I'd ask you all. I bent a rod and popped a hole in the back of my block, cylinder #1. Going to rebuild, new block etc. Deff going to be doing some IE rods rifle drilled. I am just curious what else should be done. Looking at a rod install kit from UroTuning with tb, wp, all gaskets bearings etc. However, do you all recommend swapping out intake/exhaust valves as well? Going to get the head ported and polished, and a valve job done. Just wanted some more insight.


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## WyGuy1.8T (Oct 29, 2013)

hey Brandon, it's Wyatt (@wyguyvr6) from instagram. What are your HP goals? If I were you, I'd build the motor to handle quite a bit of power that way you can go bigger turbo wise if you want in the future. I'd definitely do a large port head swap, throw in stainless steel exhaust valves (stock ones will disintegrate once you reach a certain hp/egt level, 400hp is where things start to get dicey), and a mild intake cam. Block wise, I'd put in some +1/+2 mm overbored pistons, re-ringing blocks with 150k on them is kinda half assed if you ask me. If you do the bigger pistons, then you get the 144x20mm rods. You'll want to get your rotating assembly balanced as well. Maybe throw in some ARP goodies in there too. The timing assembly has always been a week point if you want to rev to/past 7500. So get a manual tensioner, fluidampr pulley, IE press fit crank gear, and IE cam pulley. There's more to it, but those are some highlights. 


Here's a good read on building in relation to your hp goals. 

http://www.performancebyie.com/blog/guide-building-1-8t-1997-2005-engine-block-right-first-time/


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

Lets keep this thread going, there is a lot of great information in here. Here is my list as it stands.
2004 GTI 5spd
AWP 1.8T 
Stock internals block and head
Stock turbo
Stock fuel pump
Stock fuel injectors
4.0 bar FPR
2.0T coils
NGK plugs .028 gap
ABD Racingworks CAI
Neuspeed TIP 
Neuspeed lower IC pipe
Forge upper IC hose
Forge 007 DV
3" turbo back exhaust stock cat/no resonator or muffler
B&M short throw
42nd DD shifter bushings
VF engineering engine/transmission/dog bone mounts
Hotchkis sway bars front and rear
Full Urethane bushings in suspension
H&R race springs / Koni STR.T shocks/struts
Custom built O2J bolted diff/TDI 5th gear
Custom tune by DC Performance (out of Santa Monica, Ca. No longer in business) 
Dyno at 280hp 

I have a FT23
FT tubular header / FT TIP
Ford 440 fuel injectorz
HFFP
FMIC (still need piping)

I would like to make 350 to 375 for hp and tq. Given what I have, does this sound possible with the FT upgrade? There is a shop here in town (Ventura,Ca) called http://www.agautowerks.com that I am going to talk to about retuning after the install. 




Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Not on stock internals.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

Not on stock internals? Damn. Im not ready to open it up and do that big of an upgrade yet lol I have a 1959 Chevy Apache that I am currently working on also, trying to get it up and running to be my daily driver. So I went by AGAutowerks today, and talk to Gabe the owner. He told me that if I want to hit those numbers, I would be better off running the GT2871 eliminator setup. Im considering it, and looking into the kit, but also thinking, I already have everything for the FT23 setup in my garage. Any thoughts on these two setups and which one would get me to my numbers or be better to get there?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## brunjc2 (Jul 24, 2017)

watercooledbeast said:


> Not on stock internals? Damn. Im not ready to open it up and do that big of an upgrade yet lol I have a 1959 Chevy Apache that I am currently working on also, trying to get it up and running to be my daily driver. So I went by AGAutowerks today, and talk to Gabe the owner. He told me that if I want to hit those numbers, I would be better off running the GT2871 eliminator setup. Im considering it, and looking into the kit, but also thinking, I already have everything for the FT23 setup in my garage. Any thoughts on these two setups and which one would get me to my numbers or be better to get there?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


This has always been the fork in the road for me and my project- the F23 walks the dangerous line of bending rods. Assuming that the block has minimal wear and can be re-ringed, a new set of forged rods can be installed and lap in a set of new exhaust valves for insurance. But now you have a block that can support 500hp+ with an induction system that can breath only half of that.

That said, if I had an F23 setup sitting in my garage and a nearly stock 1.8t, I would use it, and tune it conservatively with stock rods.

As for the eliminator, i would ask what benefits is there to run that over a T3 flanged or Vband setup? The major downside to those eliminators are high EGTs. The small exhaust inlet is limiting.

Here’s a couple links of other posts for you to read about 350-400hp 1.8t setups. HTH

https://www.audizine.com/forum/showthread.php/512741-How-would-you-build-your-1-8t-for-350whp

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...-take-to-make-400-whp-gt3071r#/topics/5251160


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

brunjc2 said:


> This has always been the fork in the road for me and my project- the F23 walks the dangerous line of bending rods. Assuming that the block has minimal wear and can be re-ringed, a new set of forged rods can be installed and lap in a set of new exhaust valves for insurance. But now you have a block that can support 500hp+ with an induction system that can breath only half of that.
> 
> That said, if I had an F23 setup sitting in my garage and a nearly stock 1.8t, I would use it, and tune it conservatively with stock rods.
> 
> ...


@bruncj2 thanks bro, I appreciate the info, I will read through it here in a bit. If I could get 350 as a daily out of it, I would be happy. That is of course, without having to break it open and upgrade internals. 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## CD155MX (Dec 18, 2007)

watercooledbeast said:


> @bruncj2 thanks bro, I appreciate the info, I will read through it here in a bit. If I could get 350 as a daily out of it, I would be happy. That is of course, without having to break it open and upgrade internals.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


The rule of thumb I've always read was that as your near the 300 hp/tq range you'll need rods at a min. I would venture to guess you'll either need to do internals upgrades or lower your goals to avoid issues.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

CD155MX said:


> The rule of thumb I've always read was that as your near the 300 hp/tq range you'll need rods at a min. I would venture to guess you'll either need to do internals upgrades or lower your goals to avoid issues.


@CD155MX Damn, a lot of what I read was saying after 400hp/tq things start to become questionable.

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## brunjc2 (Jul 24, 2017)

Torque bends rods. People have run GT35s on stock blocks at higher boost with success. How? They don’t make any torque. They spool at 4500-5000rpm. These FT23s and 21s and most K03/K04 variants spoil at lower RPM, generating more torque, bending rods. Tunes for these FrankenTurbos really should manage boost spike but even more, manage ignition advance during spool and RPM. If the torque hit is smooth and not really a hit, and kept around 300lb/ft, I think HP isn’t much of a deal. That said, can these turbos flow air well in higher RPM to make power? Like 7500-8000RPM? Probably not but I don’t know for certain.

FWIW I have a GT3071R on a stock block 180k mile engine for the last 5k-10k miles, low boost (13psi!) and it’s alive and well.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

brunjc2 said:


> Torque bends rods. People have run GT35s on stock blocks at higher boost with success. How? They don’t make any torque. They spool at 4500-5000rpm. These FT23s and 21s and most K03/K04 variants spoil at lower RPM, generating more torque, bending rods. Tunes for these FrankenTurbos really should manage boost spike but even more, manage ignition advance during spool and RPM. If the torque hit is smooth and not really a hit, and kept around 300lb/ft, I think HP isn’t much of a deal. That said, can these turbos flow air well in higher RPM to make power? Like 7500-8000RPM? Probably not but I don’t know for certain.
> 
> FWIW I have a GT3071R on a stock block 180k mile engine for the last 5k-10k miles, low boost (13psi!) and it’s alive and well.


GT3071 at 13PSI? Whats your HP number? I do agree that if the power curve is smooth and doesnt spike hard, you should be able to run stock internals without any issues. Maybe the GT3071 is where I should be looking. 

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## brunjc2 (Jul 24, 2017)

Man idk it’s not worth dynoing maybe 250whp? Just wanted to get the entire induction system and a good base tune before replacing the engine.

I don’t want to derail this thread, just want to point out torque kills rods, smaller turbochargers make good low end torque—more so than big turbochargers. You’ve been warned.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

brunjc2 said:


> Man idk it’s not worth dynoing maybe 250whp? Just wanted to get the entire induction system and a good base tune before replacing the engine.
> 
> I don’t want to derail this thread, just want to point out torque kills rods, smaller turbochargers make good low end torque—more so than big turbochargers. You’ve been warned.


Lol fair enough, I do appreciate all your input bro 

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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Brute rods and Wiseco pistons was what I used. Lower end of pricing and peace of mind.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

Brake Weight said:


> Brute rods and Wiseco pistons was what I used. Lower end of pricing and peace of mind.


@Brake Weight Peace of mind is always a good thing. Do you remember round about what you spent for the parts?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

watercooledbeast said:


> @Brake Weight Peace of mind is always a good thing. Do you remember round about what you spent for the parts?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Little over $1000 but nearly 5 years ago. Still need bearings and bolts and gaskets and a weekend.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

I wouldn’t do an f23 if I knew then what I know now. Just as soon go BT and actually have a freeway runner than MedT and have neither a dragger nor a freeway runner. It’d probably be good on an autocross track.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

Brake Weight said:


> I wouldn’t do an f23 if I knew then what I know now. Just as soon go BT and actually have a freeway runner than MedT and have neither a dragger nor a freeway runner. It’d probably be good on an autocross track.


Solid info bro, much appreciated 

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

watercooledbeast said:


> Solid info bro, much appreciated
> 
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


I wouldn’t do that Eliminator kit either. Look around for a t3 kit or stick build yourself one. Piecing together a setup isn’t as hard as you’d think. 

Rods & pistons. Those Ford 47# injectors are a good base at a good price. 4bar FPR. TIP for particular turbo. 3” MAF housing and sensor or rerun original (tuner must know which sensor). May as well do timing belt and water pump when head is off. Cheap fleaBay FMIC and piping. Ran a Bosch 044 but it died. Don’t remember which one, but replaced it with one of these intank pumps: https://www.highflowfuel.com/c-1097...-compatible-intank-fuel-pumps-volkswagen.html


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Water/Methanol injection post IC and preTB isn’t necessary. But it makes a world of difference. I just run straight distilled water nowadays but it still cools like a MFer. The intake mani will be cold and have condensation on the outside after a good summer time highway pull.


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## Muggz (Apr 17, 2020)

Trying to keep this thread alive, i hydrolocked my motor *sigh* so the motor is coming out and i’m throwing IE rods in, ARP hardware, rod bearings when it comes apart to get resurfaced. Im looking to make ~325whp on the F23T. FBO, probably going to run a high flow intake & turbo manifold, MBC, W/M, and probably going to need Maestro to make these types of numbers. Is there anything i should look out for while i start this build?


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

Muggz said:


> Trying to keep this thread alive, i hydrolocked my motor *sigh* so the motor is coming out and i’m throwing IE rods in, ARP hardware, rod bearings when it comes apart to get resurfaced. Im looking to make ~325whp on the F23T. FBO, probably going to run a high flow intake & turbo manifold, MBC, W/M, and probably going to need Maestro to make these types of numbers. Is there anything i should look out for while i start this build?


Get a good manifold from the start. The v3 from Doug cracked welds everywhere. So I got a new one, different one. It is 99.9999999% easier to install the turbo manifold on an engine stand vs. mounted in the engine bay. Use some Nordloc washers, too.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

Wait on meth if you're using e85, etc. The can clash a bit sometimes on smaller turbos. 

What about pistons? Have them checked out and get oem rings if they're OK. 

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## james9120 (Jul 6, 2012)

I’m glad this thread is still going!

Since big turbo kits are either discontinued, months out and cost over $3000, seems like an FT23 is the next best thing. 

From what I gather is FT23 and xs manifold is a good combo. 

Paired with some injectors and a good tune, should make for a fun daily. 

Any thoughts?


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## james9120 (Jul 6, 2012)

XS responded to my email regarding their manifold and FT23 swap, and recommended this turbo

https://www.ebay.com/itm/124172725534

Has anyone heard of it? Seems too good to be true


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

james9120 said:


> XS responded to my email regarding their manifold and FT23 swap, and recommended this turbo
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/124172725534
> 
> Has anyone heard of it? Seems too good to be true



Looks like a k04, possibly a hybrid type like the f23. It would still require a new turbo manifold and to mate to plumbing for intercooler. Injectors would be good to add on. Would need a remap/tune likely, too unless you left the old injectors in and use this as a replacement to the OEM k03.


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

My f23 died last week. I was on the second turbo manifold after the kit manifold failed. Turbo had a little over 16k miles on it. It started to flutter funny and a day later just stopped. Went limp mode and blows some sweet white smoke out the tail pipe and from around the turbo. When you rev it up and let the turbo spool down it sounds like metal on metal and the fins are dragging. 

So, since I went with the rods and supporting mods I'm on the prowl for a bigger setup. Hoping to stay under $1000 for turbo, mani, injectors, and step up to BT on my hybrid tune.


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## james9120 (Jul 6, 2012)

Brake Weight said:


> james9120 said:
> 
> 
> > XS responded to my email regarding their manifold and FT23 swap, and recommended this turbo
> ...


I’m not holding my breathe that it’s of good quality. Also starting to see some failing FT’s again? Maybe K04 or an ATP RS kit is the solid answer. 

Doug at FT swears the FT21 is right for me, but still thinking about it


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

james9120 said:


> I’m not holding my breathe that it’s of good quality. Also starting to see some failing FT’s again? Maybe K04 or an ATP RS kit is the solid answer.
> 
> Doug at FT swears the FT21 is right for me, but still thinking about it


If you can get a junk/used k04 for cheap there are some really nice turbine and compressor wheels on fleaBay that'd likely do whatever the FT can do...maybe better. I'll assUme that is all my f23 was except in china housings. You may need to seek some help with picking the right wheels, but if you could make it boost 1000rpm later and stay a 1000rpm late, then you'd have a nice cheap turbo.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

Brake Weight said:


> If you can get a junk/used k04 for cheap there are some really nice turbine and compressor wheels on fleaBay that'd likely do whatever the FT can do...maybe better. I'll assUme that is all my f23 was except in china housings. You may need to seek some help with picking the right wheels, but if you could make it boost 1000rpm later and stay a 1000rpm late, then you'd have a nice cheap turbo.


Where do you find these said used/junk K04 turbos lol

slow is smooth, smooth is fast!!!


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

watercooledbeast said:


> Where do you find these said used/junk K04 turbos lol
> 
> slow is smooth, smooth is fast!!!


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

watercooledbeast said:


> Where do you find these said used/junk K04 turbos lol
> 
> slow is smooth, smooth is fast!!!


Misread it.


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## watercooledbeast (Oct 2, 2006)

Brake Weight said:


> Misread it.


Thanks bro, You are always comin through with the goods 

slow is smooth, smooth is fast!!!


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## Brake Weight (Jul 27, 2006)

watercooledbeast said:


> Thanks bro, You are always comin through with the goods
> 
> slow is smooth, smooth is fast!!!


Thinking of rebuilding my busted f23 with something fancy. Housing don’t matter as much as the moving bits.


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