# Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/???



## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

Hey,
I had a ticking noise develop today, and it degenerated to a banging noise on the highway in about 6 min @ 100km/h.
This noise was aggravated by specific engine loads.
I pulled the cam cover to see if i could see any problems there but i was wondering what to look for. I could see the cam and lifters and everything looked to be in order, timing belt is good, engine starts runs, little drop in power, and i was able to limp it home ~50km with no change in symptoms, not that it was probably a good idea.
Do you guys think it's bent a valve or two? Is there much chance that a single set or one valve could be bent and not the whole set if it wasn't timing related?
Any help would be much appreciated, sorry i have more questions than answers, i'm new to the scene and apparently have been plagued by problems.
Thanks,
Jon


_Modified by laminaytrap at 10:29 AM 2-24-2010_


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

You have a timing belt, not a chain.
You're sure the noise is coming from the head and not the block?
Have you checked how much oil you have?
I imagine this is a solid lifter head? Perhaps the valve lash is out??
You shouldn't have bent any valves.
Have you ran the engine with the cam cover off to investigate closer?


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## GDR (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

You have a rod bearing going out.
Drain the oil and and see if it looks like fine metallic paint.


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## Heesay (Jan 28, 2010)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (GDR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GDR* »_You have a rod bearing going out.
Drain the oil and and see if it looks like fine metallic paint.

This is a possibility, but a big jump....
The noise occurs ALL throughout the RPM range? or only at certain speeds?


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (Heesay)*

Sorry it is a belt obviously, yes the noise is all throughout the rpm range, it gets louder/more aggressive as the rpms wind up, and sounds awful when you let off the throttle and the engine spins down with no load. I haven't had a chance to run the engine with the cover off yet, i'll likely take a video tonight in order to capture the sound and what it looks like. If there's anything else that would be helpful to see let me know.
Oil level is fine, and this is way beyond a simple noisy lifter as far as i've ever experienced,
The head is stock for an 86 scirocco 8v and i assume it's solid lifters.
Thanks again for all the help and i'll post a you tube link as soon as i can.


_Modified by laminaytrap at 10:36 AM 2-24-2010_


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## GDR (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

The later years of the JH got hyd lifters. You can check for collapsed lifters without running the engine.
Drain the oil and check the condition before you keep trying to run the engine or you'll turn a rebuild into a total replacement.


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (GDR)*

Haven't had a chance to pull the cover again but when i looked the first time there was no visible lifter collapse. How much would it actually be collapsed? something i'd want to measure with a feeler, or would it be noticeable?
Thanks,
Jon


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

This is the scirocco startup and running
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZXfFJho4qY
About 3 seconds in oil started pouring out from the filter base/ somewhere in that region. The dip stick still reads but it reads low, when the problem started the oil level read normal. The dash is broken so i don't have oil pressure readings right now, i can put on an aftermarket gauge to check it, does anyone know a good spot to put the fitting? There didn't appear to be any shavings in the oil at all, and sorry i couldn't get a video of it running with the cam cover off, obviously it shouldn't be started till it's been drained and filter changed, and make sure that there are no leaks.
Does anyone think this is a related problem? Or that low oil level is the cause of the noise?
The rev up at the start is to engage the alternator, otherwise it won't charge, is that normal, or do i have too large of a pulley for some reason?
Thanks again for the help.
Jon


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## tehmonkay (May 5, 2006)

if you were losing oil and there is a lot of noise now it's probably a bearing or bearings


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## 0dd_j0b (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (DriversFound.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DriversFound.com* »_

The Scirocco never got hydraulic lifters.
My noise that I thought was head related turned out to be crank bearings. Ended up making lots of pretty noises drawings stares from constructions guys on the side of the road when it died. 

Yes they did. Not sure exactly when, but both my 87' 8v and 87' 16v Scirocco's has hydro heads.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (DriversFound.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DriversFound.com* »_Ok, let me rephrase that... 
The 8V Scirocco had solid lifters from the factory. 
They did not get hydraulic lifters. As you said "Not sure exactly when". 

According to Bentley, 8v Sciroccos had solid lifters up to and including the 1987 model year, after which they had hydraulic lifters. However, I have heard multiple reports, from multiple sources that at least some of the 87's came with hydraulic lifters. 
So, "Not exactly sure when", I think we can narrow that down to "some time during the 1987 model year".


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (ABA Scirocco)*

Ok,
So tomorrow, weather permitting, i'm going to pull the oil pan and check the oil/ crank/ rods. Please let me know if there's anything specific i should be looking for/ checking. I've never worked on VW engines before, all my past experience is with small block chevs. I'll take pictures and video of anything that seems relevant, if there are things that i should be specifically looking at please post it.
Also if i get the pan off and it looks fine how far should i pull apart the top and and what could i look for there.
Thanks,
Jon


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## tehmonkay (May 5, 2006)

My Girlfriend has an 87 with a hydro head.


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (GDR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GDR* »_You have a rod bearing going out.
Drain the oil and and see if it looks like fine metallic paint.

True story, one of the rod bearings was completely gone, no shavings when i drained the oil, however the pan was full of chunks. Now I'm looking for bearings, I'll try the dealer and CarQuest tomorrow, PartSource can't get them though. Any idea where to source them locally? Is VW the right way or somewhere on the internet?
Thanks,
Jon








The rod is shown loose in the following video>>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8bKNWaRWJU



_Modified by laminaytrap at 3:27 PM 2-28-2010_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

So are u going to pull the whole motor out? I would IMO. If that rod bearing was completely gone uve got metal in the entire motor. U need to take it all apart including ur head and clean everything!!! Make sure theirs no other scoring in the main bearings and in the cam caps...The right thing to do would be to rebuild it. If ur gona take the cheap way out and only do the rod bearings, atleast clean the whole motor and blow all the oil passages before u do so or u might end up with same problem a few months done the line or even worse a main bearing... 
You can get all the parts u need from 
http://www.germanautoparts.com/


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (TheMajic86GTI)*

I'm thinking that i'll try to clean it out as best as possible and do all the bearings for now. Once may comes and i get moved into my new house/ garage i'll probably be pulling the engine anyways. 
Thanks for all the help guys it's much appreciated.
Jon


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

Alright so ur taking the cheap way out...








Make sure after u get it all together again to use some cheap(by cheap i mean price wise) oil and a cheap oil filter...Run it for like 10-15 min and with the car still hot dump the oil and filter and replace with wutever quality oil and filter u want. Hopefully this will get wutever last bits of metal are left outa ur motor......Good Luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (TheMajic86GTI)*

Yeah that was the plan, if i get any shavings in the other bearings i'm gonna be screwed real quick
Jon


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

I forgot to add u can also use one of those magnetic oil drain plugs to try and trap some metal aswell..


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## GoKraut (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (TheMajic86GTI)*

I just say get a new engine. They are a a dime a dozen and you would spend a LOT less time working on it.
Just my









-Rob


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## GDR (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (GoKraut)*

Isn't the crank wasted? (Got pics?)
That rod cap looks pretty bad. I'm sure its way out of round too. I understand your situation but the new bearing won't last very long at all if you just put it in there. You can at least try to sand and polish the crank and only drive the car when absolutely needed.
And I agree with GoKraut on just getting a new used engine. Upon tear down and inspection of yours you'll find out is going to be pretty much junk.


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (GDR)*

Ok,
so i need to get all this straight. You guys think that an engine swap would be easier than a rebuild? or that it has overall more benefits than a rebuild for a similar price? (larger displacement, better ecu/injection).
Also about polishing the crank to prolong the life of the new bearing, how would you suggest i go about that? I'm just trying to make this engine run properly until about june, then i can pull it out, take everything apart, and decide on the future of the car, but for now i need something to drive.
If i polish the crank and cap, flush with oil, and put a large magnet in the pan do you guys have any bets on how long this bearing will last? Anyone have any experience with this?
Thanks,
I should be getting the bearings in this afternoon.
Jon


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*

Ok,
So i replaced the bearing, but obviously nothing is quite round anymore, so i'm going to have to either find a new rod, pull the engine and rebuild it, or replace it. There are long term plans for this car that see it no longer having a VW engine however that wasn't supposed to happen so soon. Any chance that i could find a good bottom end that someone doesn't want? Do they show up often? And what bottom ends would be a good choice to fit my application. I'm not looking for big numbers or anything, just solid reliability and low cost until summer comes around.
Thanks,
Jon


_Modified by laminaytrap at 12:09 PM 3-3-2010_


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## 2LiterWeapon (May 8, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *laminaytrap* »_Ok,
So i replaced the bearing, but obviously nothing is quite round anymore, so i'm going to have to either find a new rod, pull the engine and rebuild it, or replace it. There are long term plans for this car that see it no longer having a VW engine however that wasn't supposed to happen so soon. Any chance that i could find a good bottom end that someone doesn't want? Do they show up often? And what bottom ends would be a good choice to fit my application. I'm not looking for big numbers or anything, just solid reliability and low cost until summer comes around.
Thanks,
Jon

_Modified by laminaytrap at 12:09 PM 3-3-2010_

Salvage Yard http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GDR (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *laminaytrap* »_Ok,
Any chance that i could find a good bottom end that someone doesn't want? Do they show up often? And what bottom ends would be a good choice to fit my application. I'm not looking for big numbers or anything, just solid reliability and low cost until summer comes around.
]

Look in the classified here. A lot of people do the ABA 2L bottom end swap and pretty much give away their short block.Unfortunately all the good free ones are usually on the other side of the country








I'd would try looking for a long block. It will save you time and maybe money. No head gasket and head bolts to replace. And you still may have unknown damage to your head.
The GX motor(you may have a different Canadian counter part) is very similar to your JH and started with the 85 base model Golfs and Jettas. These should be cheap and easy to find.
There are plenty of threads on this so search around. These motors are like Lego's. You can put them together many ways.


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (GDR)*

Yeah i found two possibles on the Canadian classifieds however as i've found with most things interesting there are always some in California







. I've also sent some emails to some people i know to be on the lookout at wrecking yards and the like. Hopefully something will turn up soon, and your right it would be much easier to swap the whole engine rather than just the bottom end, if i can find a complete one to work with.
Thanks for all the help and wish me luck!
Jon


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## scirockinit (Oct 16, 2008)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (TheMajic86GTI)*

where can u find a magnetic bolt for a rocco? are they universal with other model cars such as honda?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (scirockinit)*

why would you waste new crank and rod bearings on a crank that obviously already ate a bearing? that makes no sense to me. the rod journal is gonna be all chewed up. just gonna take that bearing out too. just buy another whole 8v engine and drop in there. they are cheap and plentiful. i can find 1.8 8v engines all day long for around 100 bucks...


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Head noise, extremely loud, sounds very bad, valve/lifter/??? (laminaytrap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *laminaytrap* »_. I've also sent some emails to some people i know to be on the lookout at wrecking yards and the like. 
Jon

Many wrecking yards have seachable on-line data bases are accessible through http://car-part.com/


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## laminaytrap (Oct 31, 2009)

ABA Swapped


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