# Kick down adjustment.



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

Did anyone know that the kick down switch can be adjusted, soft or hard by turning it?
Found it by chance last nite.
Sorry if this is well known


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Kick down adjustment. (gibber_2k)*

I didn't even know there was a switch... Where is it located ?
I think the topic should go into the "hidden features" thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2408650
Great finding !


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I think he's talking about the button that's right behind the loud pedal...


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*

Yes he is and no it can't -- it's "on" or "off".


----------



## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

what? explain


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

*Re: (Reflect)*

Ya wohl, Herr Kommandant








There's a button behind the throttle pedal which is depressed when the pedal is pushed down suddenly and causes the gearbox to kick down.


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_Yes he is and no it can't -- it's "on" or "off".

Well mine definately can, turn it left and its a soft click, turn it to the right and it takes quite a hard push to click it.
Im sure mine is not unique, so please someone else confirm this and prove Chris wrong.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*

The left and right rotation is how the switch is seated in position -- similar to bayonet-mount SLR lenses on cameras. In one direction it's loose and the other it's secure.
It's not a variable resistance switch, it's similar in design to a SPMT (single pole, momentary throw). Therefore, there is no "degree of activation". Much like elevator buttons and remote controls, pressing the button harder doesn't bring quicker activation (something of which I, myself, am guilty).
Having said that, it doesn't matter how hard the button is pressed, but how far. And, when you're flooring the gas pedal for maximum acceleration, the button will surely be depressed far enough for activation.


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_The left and right rotation is how the switch is seated in position -- similar to bayonet-mount SLR lenses on cameras. In one direction it's loose and the other it's secure.
It's not a variable resistance switch, it's similar in design to a SPMT (single pole, momentary throw). Therefore, there is no "degree of activation". Much like elevator buttons and remote controls, pressing the button harder doesn't bring quicker activation (something of which I, myself, am guilty).
Having said that, it doesn't matter how hard the button is pressed, but how far. And, when you're flooring the gas pedal for maximum acceleration, the button will surely be depressed far enough for activation.

No I still disagree.
Maximum acceleration is not achieved when the button is pressed, pressing the button engages kick down. These are very similar but not the same.
I will have a drive round to my fathers tonight to check his Phaeton


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gibber_2k* »_Maximum acceleration is not achieved when the button is pressed, pressing the button engages kick down. These are very similar but not the same.

My understanding is when kickdown is engaged, the TCM selects the best possible gear for maximum acceleration. Please elaborate on the differences for me as, while I've passed every mechanic self-study program for the Phaeton and I own one, I don't have any classroom training on transmission repair and the more I'm able to learn, the better off I am.


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Kick down adjustment. (gibber_2k)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gibber_2k* »_Did anyone know that the kick down switch can be adjusted, soft or hard by turning it?
Found it by chance last nite.
Sorry if this is well known









Personally, I wouldn't bother. I just use sport mode when I need more responsive downshifts. Works great for me.


----------



## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

*Re: Kick down adjustment...*

Never even knew there was such a thing(?). From reading all of this, think it's best to give up my beloved 'Phoebe' and stick with a horse & buggy (since I don't drive half-as-fast as some of you here!)...


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Kick down adjustment... (george777)*

Oh, buy a Phaeton, then ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phaeton_(carriage)


_Modified by Zaphh at 6:43 PM 2-24-2009_


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
My understanding is when kickdown is engaged, the TCM selects the best possible gear for maximum acceleration. Please elaborate on the differences for me as, while I've passed every mechanic self-study program for the Phaeton and I own one, I don't have any classroom training on transmission repair and the more I'm able to learn, the better off I am.









Chris,
Im not sure if you are having a bad day or if you have a problem with me, but what I have said is fact, turn it one way it goes soft turn back and it it hard again, 2 position, soft hard, not in any of these positions does the switch become loose.
I dont feel there is a need to start quoting qualifications and courses, as I have done this on 2 phaetons now, my W12 and my father V10.
I can see you are a moderator but all it appears your usefullness in this thread is to belittle my posts with no real input.
Next time I will keep my findings to myself.



_Modified by gibber_2k at 10:21 AM 2-24-2009_


----------



## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*

Anthony, you are being over sensitive - take this from one Englishman to another. Chris is great and a always a good read, and this posting was very interesting. If you are right credit to you but don't take offence, as, knowing this forum and its moderators, none was meant by Chris, just healthy debate and dialogue. 
Keep posting! 
PETER M


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*

Perhaps you misunderstand.
If there is such a feature, it is certainly undocumented and perhaps not available in the NAR.
My question to you is this: assuming this is the case, for what purpose would you want an adjustable kickdown switch?


----------



## Spectral (Dec 21, 2005)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*

I don't know what it does yet, but my NA spec Phaeton has the same type of knob/switch underneath the gas pedal.
I can rotate it about 45 degrees and feel a solid click at the left and right extremes. It seems odd that this knob/switch would be adjustable without a purpose. 
edit...
After several visits to the redline with the pedal to the floor, I can't tell the difference between having the kick down switch in the left position or the right position.
However, I didn't try the test in sport mode.


_Modified by Spectral at 10:09 PM 2-24-2009_


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

As you know and have said before (but others may not) Throttle kickdown forces a downshift into the lowest possible gear if the throttle pedal is fully depressed and the kickdown switch is pressed.
IF the throttle is fully pressed and the switch is not pressed, the management mite decide not to drop any gears.

So depending upon your driving style you mite not want to hit the kick down as this can be quite abrupt. So it gives you the option of having to push the throttle a bit hard to over come the switch.


_Modified by gibber_2k at 3:32 AM 2-25-2009_


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (gibber_2k)*

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the throttle on a Phaeton a drive by wire device? It would seem redundant to put a foot switched transmission kick down into the bit stream of pedal to throttle information. The computer will, by design, be reading our RPM, speed, traction and probably a dozen other variables. With all the information being sampled by the computer one would think the computer would be well aware of what our right foot is asking for and try to comply







. I haven't delved into the underside of the carpet on my car but is the "button" or quite possibly the gas pedal back stop wired to anything? It has been mentioned that in 'Sport' mode you are in control of all transmission functions. True to a point but the computer will over ride any selection you make that is outside the window of what the engineers wrote into the program. Try to stall your car in any gear above 1st by not down shifting on a steep incline.


----------



## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Kickdown switches are common on German and possibly other European cars. They are nothing new or unique to Phaetons; my 1987 Porsche has one. Basically, they operate as a mechanism or override signal to the transmission to select the lowest gear possible under wide open throttle conditions.
It takes a certain amount of pressure to press the accelerator all the way to the floor where it reaches the kickdown switch, then it take a little more pressure to engage the switch. It appears that perhaps the amount of additional pressure necessary is adjustable which is rather unique feature. 
Thanks for posting! I'll have to check this one out myself. 



_Modified by Auzivision at 9:26 AM 2-25-2009_


----------



## paddyh (Mar 14, 2008)

*Re: (Auzivision)*

It seems the concept has been around for a while. My dad's Mercedes Benz 280e (W123) in the early 70's had a kick down switch, and the earliest reference I found with a quick google search showed up on a 1970's era Buick with a TH400 transmission. Also several references to Corvette's from the 70's too.


----------



## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (paddyh)*

Gibber,
This is a good find even if it doesnt mean nothing. its just another finding that i believe also must be there for a reason.
thanks
i will try this


----------



## Qest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Re: (Rowayton)*

It's not really for the car, it's for the driver. With a little experimentation I can decide whether I want to press it or not giving me more control. In my R32 in manual mode pressing the kickdown switch will cause a downshift despite the gear selector telling the car to hold the gear.


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (Rowayton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rowayton* »_It has been mentioned that in 'Sport' mode you are in control of all transmission functions. True to a point but the computer will over ride any selection you make that is outside the window of what the engineers wrote into the program. Try to stall your car in any gear above 1st by not down shifting on a steep incline. 

Clarification: I wasn't referring to the "manumatic", shift yourself mode (honestly, I don't find that feature very enticing at all in a giant, 5200 lb car), just the Sport mode "S" versus "D". In Sport mode the tranny attempts to keep the revs between 2-3K under no, or minimal load, compared to under 2K in "D". The transmission will also be much more eager to select a lower gear with a given throttle input. E.g., if conditions required 30% throttle for a downshift in "D", that same downshift would occurr with say, 10-15% throttle in "S".


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Stinky999)*

All of you are partially correct, and all of you are partially wrong.
The button underneath the accelerator (photo below) is not electrically connected to anything, in fact, it has no electrical parts whatsoever. Its purpose is to provide haptic feedback to the driver that he or she has, in fact, pushed the accelerator pedal down as far as it can go.
The nature of the haptic feedback can be adjusted to suit the preference of the driver: either a gradually increasing level of resistance, or, a 'click' that results from a cam over-centering within the device.
You could remove the whole part from the car and not only would the car be none the wiser, but performance and behaviour of the car would be unaffected.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here is an explanation taken from the 4.2 engine SSG:


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

For the benefit of all who may be following this discussion, but are not quite sure what we are talking about, below is a photo of the button that is being discussed.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

But, it looks slightly different in the UK. Below is a photo of the same button on a RHD Phaeton.








Michael


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_But, it looks slightly different in the UK. Below is a photo of the same button on a RHD Phaeton.









Oh Lordy! I sure needed that laugh first thing in the morning. I stand corrected. (One of the signs of the Apocalypse, I'm sure, so gird your loins...)










_Modified by chrisj428 at 7:41 AM 2-26-2009_


----------



## Qest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Interesting that it's unlike the GLI and R32. In those cars, the button overrides the tiptronic manual mode and forces a downshift if able. I guess it's a DSG thing.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Qest)*

Qest:
You might want to check the technical literature (the descriptive notes) for your transmission just to be sure. The 4.2 litre engine and transmission combination described in the extract from the technical notes above dates from 2002, I would be quite surprised if any newer engine and transmission combinations revert to using the button for anything more than just tactile feedback.
Michael


----------



## adamkodish (Mar 5, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_But, it looks slightly different in the UK. Below is a photo of the same button on a RHD Phaeton.








Michael

I've waited a long time to ask this....'Michael are you taking the michael?'
Here is a genuine RHD kickdown button:










_Modified by adamkodish at 8:00 PM 2-26-2009_


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_... Its purpose is to provide haptic feedback to the driver...

Great to see you back Michael. Not only do we always learn new things about our Phaetons from you, but some great words too. First it was *iatrogenic* and now *haptic*. Can't wait for my next game of scrabble with the wife!


----------



## Qest (Jan 1, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Can someone please go drive their Phaeton in high gear in tiptronic manual mode at low speed and see if the transmission downshifts only if the kickdown button is pressed so nobody has to pour over extracts from technical transmission literature (with descriptive notes)? It definitely works that way with the current DSG in the R32 and the GLI, but I don't yet own a Phaeton to test it myself.


----------

