# educated opinion needed about oil



## Fale (Apr 5, 2008)

so, ive been using pentosin 5w40 sence my motor build about 6 months ago and im thinking about switching to liquimoly 5w40. i definitely noticed a change in my motor behavior(out of boost obviously








) when i made the change from mobil1. im wondering if ill notice the same increase this time around. (and please only speak from experience, i realy dont want to hear "why not XXX brand".)


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## IzVW (Jul 24, 2003)

What kind of difference did you notice? More/less noise? More/less power on a dyno?


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## Fale (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (IzVW)*

less noise on cold starts, more horsepower, slightly better throtle responce and i know it sounds crazy......but my car just sounded happier. haha. now liquimoly has an interesting additive that pentosin doesnt use. its a metal based frction modifier. im gunna look more into it but from what ive read already, its "supposed" to work even better then the additives in the pentosin oils........


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## CTdubin (Jul 20, 2007)

*Re: (Fale)*

royal purple


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (CTdubin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CTdubin* »_royal purple

How can you in good conscious recommend an oil that isn't approved for any VW ever built?


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## Fale (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (shipo)*

thanks for the useless comment bro







. did you even read my post? im not looking for personal opinions about what oil to run, im looking for experience with the two oils listed. maybe some tech data if anyone has it floating around.......


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (Fale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fale* »_thanks for the useless comment bro







. did you even read my post? im not looking for personal opinions about what oil to run, im looking for experience with the two oils listed. maybe some tech data if anyone has it floating around.......

Are you responding to me? If so, why? I think that if you look you'll find that I was responding to the Royal Purple comment and had nothing to do with your original post.
With that said, I will admit that some of the data in your first two posts about noticing a difference between oils seems more than a bit dubious.


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## Fale (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (shipo)*

no, it was not in responce to your post. the gentalman abouve you obviously did not read the post before typing in his opinion. and as for my observations, some may be scepticle. but i have a habbit of being very "in tune" with the cars i drive and i can tell when something is different(both bad and good).


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (Fale)*

His butt dyno is calibrated perfectly!


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## lkchris (Apr 1, 2008)

*Re: (gehr)*

Everybody raves when they install new tires as to how wonderful they are. Fact is, new tires are ALWAYS better than the ones they replace.
Same thing with an oil change--engines ALWAYS sound and run better with fresh oil.


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## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: (lkchris)*

word.
If someone like your mother can notice a difference then it's something worth raving about.


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## Fale (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (jackfrost1031)*

thanks for all the info guys. youve been huge help







. i do oil chanes every 2500 miles, i always have. its not like im going 5000+ like some do. then i would agree with you. but thats not the case, now is it? if you aint got useful info to add to this thread, kick rocks.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (Fale)*

The reason VW has standards about the oil that is to be used within their engines is that the seals inside the german motors are different than the ones that are used in other engines, therefore require a specific oil. I had an oil change done today... I had them put in *Quaker State 5w-40 Full Synthetic EURO*. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Unfale (Sep 18, 2008)

i run no oil and i do a 14.5 in the 1/4 mile


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (Unfale)*

Im also interested in lubro moly oil, but nobody here seems to use it








Right now Im using Elf Excellium NF...have you ever tried that?


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## mitsui-g (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_Im also interested in lubro moly oil, but nobody here seems to use it








Right now Im using Elf Excellium NF...have you ever tried that?
\
I've been using Lubro Moly and Pentosin interchanging between both since my second oil change until now 220000km(5+ years). I personally don't see any real difference in terms of noticeable gas mileage, or better throttle response or increased power. I personally find that both are excellent oil http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RD_3 (Apr 24, 2002)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_Im also interested in lubro moly oil, but nobody here seems to use it








Right now Im using Elf Excellium NF...have you ever tried that?

I have been running ELF for 2 years and have been very "happy with it." There is a guy on BITOG that has an RS4, his screen name is RI_RS4 I think, he is running a special RLI BioSyn 5w40 that he helped create, he recommends Lubro Moly. It costs a bit more than Elf and Motul but it is 502.00 approved. Give it a try and post up a UOA. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Flem (Apr 26, 2008)

i used to use mobil1 0w40 euro formula and never had any problems then i switched to the Amsoil euro formula all my friend swear by it and its terrible my car hates it. rough start up (misfiring till the car is warm). and even though it drives smoother it just feels wrong. idk how to explain it. my advice is stick to what you know and use cos what may work for one person may not work for you.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (Flem)*

I've used Amsoil european formula for 20K on my car,t ran smooth and car seemed to like it.
Now with Elf I don't really notice any difference from Amsoil, the only thing I noticed is that it's still hard to see your oil level on the dipstick, even after 1500 miles oil is pretty clean.


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (Fale)*

Why the change first of all?
If it is for convenience I would say it would be fine. Both oils are great.
Pentosin is what I use and only what I use. I also tried Mobil 1 one time and removed it at 2-3K miles because the car was sluggish.
I do not think you will notice a difference since the oils are very similar and the weight and winter weight are the same.
They are competing oil companies so IMO there should not be a difference at all.
Like I said both are excellent and at the top of my list of the best oils around period, whatever you use. I stick with pentosin high performance 5w-40 because it is easy to get and approved oil.
Obviously without an oil analysis on both oils you will not be able to tell exactly whats in both or how they hold up. 
But my experience is that you will have very similar results with both oils that it won't matter.
Just stay away from ROYAL PURPLE, REDLINE, AMSOIL. IMO they are no godo regardless of the hype, not approved either.
I would not touch the stuff.
Pentosin or Lubro-Moly are 20 times better oils.
Jason

_Quote, originally posted by *Fale* »_so, ive been using pentosin 5w40 sence my motor build about 6 months ago and im thinking about switching to liquimoly 5w40. i definitely noticed a change in my motor behavior(out of boost obviously







) when i made the change from mobil1. im wondering if ill notice the same increase this time around. (and please only speak from experience, i realy dont want to hear "why not XXX brand".)



_Modified by AZV6 at 8:13 AM 9-27-2008_


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## unpimpedride (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (Fale)*

Fale,
First of all, you've made a wise choice to move away from the Mobile 1. Second of all, your intentions are good to ask for an "educated" opinion on the Vortex. However, as you've seen, there have been one or two intelligent people with relevant statements. Being a mechanical engineer, here is my educated opinion: GO WITH ROYAL PURPLE! (Okay that was my joke for the post) Seriously though. Both are pretty much equal, but I would stick with the Pentosin for 2 reasons: 1) You like the Pentosin so far right? So stick with what you have found works. 2) Pentosin is actually the OEM spec oil used from VW. Rumor is, Audi/Volkswagen engineers are pretty good at what they do, I wouldn't let the geniuses on the Vortex steer you otherwise.
Second of all, I like your curious nature. With that being said, I think that you should run a little experiment with Pentosin, Liquimoly, and Mobile 1 to prove which one is better. Start with a fresh batch of Pentosin and take a small sample (about 0.25L) every 1000 or 1500miles. Be sure to keep this sample size constant across all oils tested and replace the .25L with new oil every time. Take the sample to a lubricant analysis lab and have them run it for you. The results will be far more detailed than you care to know. (but you wanted educated right? The techs can help you decode it at the lab) Continue with the tests until the oil becomes too contaminated, or falls out of acceptable viscosity range. Run the EXACT same ritual on the Liquimoly, and the Mobile 1 (if you want a good laugh.) I personally guarantee that Pentosin and Liquimoly will last far more than 2500 miles before a change is needed. So let the techs at the lab tell you when you are about to exceed the acceptable spec range. This should happen around 5000miles. A test at a lubricant analysis lab here in Chicago is around 15-25 dollars. About 200 dollars invested beyond your normal oil change costs will give you some very valuable information. Now share your findings with the morons that love Royal Purple and Mobil 1. 
~Chris








Sorry for the long response, sometimes intelligence takes some time and effort.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (unpimpedride)*

How come you dislike Mobile 1? It's on a VW approved list.
Im just curious, cuz even if it's on a approved list I never liked Mobile 1.


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_How come you dislike Mobile 1? It's on a VW approved list.
Im just curious, cuz even if it's on a approved list I never liked Mobile 1.

Only 0W-40 is on the list for Mobile. I for one do not like that the formula has changed from the past and I for one felt it ran sluggish in my own VW VR6 engine.
I switched back to Pentosin and it runs much smoother and is a lot quicker or back to where it should be is what I should say.
I prefer myself a European oil over a US oil. As I have mentioned it is a true 100% synthetic oil, most US oils are maximum of maybe 85% synthetic but most of the time lower.
Lubro or Pentosin are quality oils that run well in all VW engines and are approved. I would also recommend ELF and MOTUL as well. 
There are plenty of oils out there that are good but here are a few good recommendations that are easily accessible in the US.
I use to use Mobil 1 many many years ago and it was a great oil, I know it is still a good oil but something in their chemistry or additive package just is not as good as before. Lower ZDDP levels is one.
Jason


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## unpimpedride (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_How come you dislike Mobile 1? It's on a VW approved list.
Im just curious, cuz even if it's on a approved list I never liked Mobile 1.

The mobil 1 0-W40 does meet the VW 502.00/505.00/503.01 standards. FYI it is put into many vehichles in the factory. Mercedes, Aston, Porsche. The stuff put into cars in European factories complies with the German/Japanese standards for a "FULL SYNTHETIC." These synthetics use polyalphaolefins (PAOs) which are a group IV base stock for the oil. In the United States a group III based stock is allowed to be called synthetic. Mobil1 used to use a group 4 based stock, it now does not. So for the same price, you can get 5L of high end German full synthetic oil for the same price as 5q of Mobil 1 and still get a better product!!! BEWARE THOUGH, German oil manufactures aren't all sunshine and roses either. They have their lower grade synthetics and semi-synthetics which are essentially the same as Mobil 1. 
Finally, I am not trashing on Mobil1 oil at all. It runs vehicles very well, which is why VW approves it. I've done tests in which Mobile 1 still retained it's TBN in an acceptable range through 10,000 miles. Other oils just run some engines better. ANYHOO... With all of you nutjobs changing your oil every 3k miles, you'll never have any problems with most any synthetics. (i still wouldn't touch royal purple with a 10 foot pole)


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (unpimpedride)*

Cool, Im thinking to try Lubro Molly Vollsynthese, if I go to their website they don't even have that oil....what Lubro Molly would you guys recommend? I currently run ELF 5w40 NF, there's only ELF DID on the approved list tho.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (unpimpedride)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unpimpedride* »_Mobil1 used to use a group 4 based stock, it now does not.

Other than all of the alarmist posts over on BITOG a couple of years ago (which were about Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 and NOT Mobil 1 0W-40, two very different products), I've never seen any credible evidence that shows that U.S. sourced Mobil 1 0W-40 is now a Group III oil. Do you have any references or citations that prove that?


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## unpimpedride (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_Cool, Im thinking to try Lubro Molly Vollsynthese, if I go to their website they don't even have that oil....what Lubro Molly would you guys recommend? I currently run ELF 5w40 NF, there's only ELF DID on the approved list tho.

Realize that Lubro Moly and Liqui Moly are 2 different oils. Liqui Moly is approved and Lubro Moly is not. The names seem VERY similar and may be a parent/child company situation, but I can barley keep up which company owns who here in the states no less german oil manufacturers. Maybe they are one of the same, but VW doesn't acknowledge it apparently.
Below is a link to the actual TSB from VAG/Audi released early this year for approved oils. It is also linked in a sticky post on this forum. As you will notice, Elf Excellium DID 5w-40 is on the approved list for 502 00 and 505 01 specs. Bottom line is, you're good to go running the Elf Excellium DID 5w-40 as long as your VW is happy with it! 
 http://www.audiusa.com/etc/med...e.pdf


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## jok3r (Jul 19, 2005)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (unpimpedride)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unpimpedride* »_
Finally, I am not trashing on Mobil1 oil at all. It runs vehicles very well, which is why VW approves it. I've done tests in which Mobile 1 still retained it's TBN in an acceptable range through 10,000 miles. Other oils just run some engines better. *ANYHOO... With all of you nutjobs changing your oil every 3k miles, you'll never have any problems with most any synthetics.* (i still wouldn't touch royal purple with a 10 foot pole)








 x2 i really dont get this at all! theres no reason to spend so much on a high grade oil only to dump it all out before its time!?!?


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (unpimpedride)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unpimpedride* »_
The mobil 1 0-W40 does meet the VW 502.00/505.00/503.01 standards. FYI it is put into many vehichles in the factory. Mercedes, Aston, Porsche. The stuff put into cars in European factories complies with the German/Japanese standards for a "FULL SYNTHETIC." These synthetics use polyalphaolefins (PAOs) which are a group IV base stock for the oil. In the United States a group III based stock is allowed to be called synthetic. Mobil1 used to use a group 4 based stock, it now does not. So for the same price, you can get 5L of high end German full synthetic oil for the same price as 5q of Mobil 1 and still get a better product!!! BEWARE THOUGH, German oil manufactures aren't all sunshine and roses either. They have their lower grade synthetics and semi-synthetics which are essentially the same as Mobil 1. 
Finally, I am not trashing on Mobil1 oil at all. It runs vehicles very well, which is why VW approves it. I've done tests in which Mobile 1 still retained it's TBN in an acceptable range through 10,000 miles. Other oils just run some engines better. ANYHOO... With all of you nutjobs changing your oil every 3k miles, you'll never have any problems with most any synthetics. (i still wouldn't touch royal purple with a 10 foot pole)









*The mobil 1 0-W40 does meet the VW 502.00/505.00/503.01 standards.* 
WHAT???
Need to do your homework.
Then you say:" It runs vehicles very well, which is why VW approves it. "
Am I confused or you? I tend to think you may be.
502.00 approved mobil oils:
Mobil Mobil Special X SAE 5W-40
Mobil Mobil Syst S ESP SAE 5W-30
Mobil Mobil 1 SAE 5W-40
Mobil Mobil Synt S SAE 5W-40
*Mobil Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40* Only one Available in US
MobilMobil 1 Turbo Diesel SAE 0W-40
MobilMobil 1 Turbo Diesel SAE 5W-40
MobilMobil 1 Arctic SAE 0W-40
MobilMobil Synt S Turbo DieselSAE 5W-40
MobilTecar 50501SAE 5W-30
MobilMobil Special X SAE 5W-40
MobilMobil 1 Formula C SAE 0W-40 
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-En....aspx
VW 502.00/505.00/503.01 approved
If I had to use it I would. Nothing wrong with Mobil 1 as long as you purchase the correct 0w-40
-----------------------------------
Lubro-moly Voll-Synthese 5w-40 is an approved oil.
Same as Synthoil High Tech 5 W-40
















Also 0w-30/5W-30 Longtime High tech

















I would also consider Elf and Motul. 
Jason


_Modified by AZV6 at 10:20 AM 10-23-2008_


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
Other than all of the alarmist posts over on BITOG a couple of years ago (which were about Mobil 1 EP 5W-30 and NOT Mobil 1 0W-40, two very different products), I've never seen any credible evidence that shows that U.S. sourced Mobil 1 0W-40 is now a Group III oil. Do you have any references or citations that prove that?

I've been wondering the same thing. I've seen more posts scattered around the Tex lately about Mobil 1 not being as good as it used to. I understand where this is coming from, but I have yet to see ANY proof that the VW 502.00 approved 0w40 "euro" formula is not primarily made of PAO stocks.








Even if it does contain a significant amount of group III stocks, given the recent advancements in hydrocracking, that does not inherently make it an inferior lubricator.


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## unpimpedride (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (AZV6)*

Jason, please re-read my post carefully. I said that it does meet vw specs. As in: It is positively accepted by VAG as a 502 00 oil. I move on to say that it does run well in VW's (It did in mine for 10k miles). However, there may be better choices by way of German full synthetics out there. In my first post I encouraged that fella to conduct some tests on his own to draw some conclusions on the situation. 
I'm not trying to be an a**hole at all but is Lubro Moly actually on the approved list. According to that January '08 TSB released by VAG about VW 502 00 and 505 01 oils, it says Liqui Moly. I am unsure if Liqui Moly is the exact same as Lubro Moly. Is this the case? I see that the containers match up, but many oil containers look similar. Just being an intelligent consumer here.


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (unpimpedride)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unpimpedride* »_Jason, please re-read my post carefully. I said that it does meet vw specs. As in: It is positively accepted by VAG as a 502 00 oil. I move on to say that it does run well in VW's (It did in mine for 10k miles). However, there may be better choices by way of German full synthetics out there. In my first post I encouraged that fella to conduct some tests on his own to draw some conclusions on the situation. 
I'm not trying to be an a**hole at all but is Lubro Moly actually on the approved list. According to that January '08 TSB released by VAG about VW 502 00 and 505 01 oils, it says Liqui Moly. I am unsure if Liqui Moly is the exact same as Lubro Moly. Is this the case? I see that the containers match up, but many oil containers look similar. Just being an intelligent consumer here. 

I guess it was confusing. I know your not being an a$$, otherwise you would have been.
Liqui-Moly and Lubro-Moly are the same Company. 
Liqui-Moly rest of the world brand see here:
http://www.liqui-moly.com/liqu....html
Lubro-moly is the brand name sold in the US
See here: 
http://www.liqui-moly.com/liqu....html
LUBRO MOLY is a trademark of LIQUI MOLY GMBH, Germany
Same stuff, all made in Germany.
Jason


_Modified by AZV6 at 2:04 PM 10-23-2008_


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## unpimpedride (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (AZV6)*

Thanks for that clarification Jason, I enjoy talking with people having some intelligence behind the conversation. 







Happy Friday everyone!








Cheers,
Chris


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## AZV6 (May 3, 2006)

*Re: educated opinion needed about oil (unpimpedride)*


_Quote, originally posted by *unpimpedride* »_Thanks for that clarification Jason, I enjoy talking with people having some intelligence behind the conversation. 







Happy Friday everyone!








Cheers,
Chris 


Same!! Have a good weekend~!














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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