# My phaeton



## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

Custom bagged v8 phaeton on stock super modded air ride. hope you enjoy ask any questions you would like





















and the day I got it









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## eiriksmil (May 9, 2006)

Dope..!!


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

Who did the suspension work?


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

I did all the work 

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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

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## B1RMA (Nov 1, 2014)

Wow that is low and along with the wheels suits the car. Is the ride compromised much?


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## bobster1969 (Apr 18, 2015)

Looks good , but how is the ride?


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

Rides just like stock 

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## bobster1969 (Apr 18, 2015)

zeingred said:


> Rides just like stock
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


seen a plug and play app for lowering the phaeton for £99 I might give it a go.
I like the wheels what did you pay for them and are they from a specialist as I know the alloys have to be somewhat strong for the phaeton.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You can lower it with VCDS. Mine is lowered by 10mm to the original Euro spec.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

zeingred said:


> Rides just like stock



Complete horsesh*t. Sorry. 


Do what you want to your own car.. but don't paint a pretty picture on a piss pot.


Anyone who has an ounce of knowledge on suspension design and tuning knows this car is ruined. Forever more..

Not to mention extremely increased wear on numerous items. As if they weren't worn bad enough on a 5000+ pound car.


Also, why would you put a compressor, air tank and controller on a car that comes already with a compressor, air tank and controller?

Yea,.. the stock stuff might pump slower.. but hell, you aren't driving anywhere fast in that car anyway.. so what does time matter?


I hope all the other kids think it is cool. As that is who does these things to cars...kids... wanting desperately to be cool.


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

I will address each comment individually. First, it is my car and I will do as I please. Second, I have built a lot of bagged cars/trucks, I drive it at a slightly lowered then stock hight and layout when parked. Third, because I drive it slightly lower then stock I am not concerned with the "wear" and I have put w12 front arms and ball joints on my v8 to help with that. Fourth, the car comes with a less then a .5 gallon tank and small compressor that was not made to keep up with raising the car from 0 psi. The stock computer only has two settings normal and high and my aftermarket controller in infinitely adjustable, more controllable then stock. Oh and last I'm in my phaeton for 4000 usd so i could really care less. So take your piss pot comments some where else 

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## eiriksmil (May 9, 2006)

You see, PowerDubs believes the Phaeton is God's gift to mankind and truly the best thing that ever happened to the world.. So you can understand why he's pissed with you  lol

This is dope.. Been looking forward to the days were you can get one of these for change and make VIP style cruisers outta them..


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

Thank you, Eirikmil. So is my porsche cayenne turbo ruined because it makes 722 awhp to the ground and puts more stress on the components? It's just i have waited to post here because the vortex is filled with elitists asshats that have to poopoo everything and people like that is why I was gone from the vortex and vw in general for a while 

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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Zeingred,

Would you mind telling us why you did this?

Damon


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

eiriksmil said:


> You see, PowerDubs believes the Phaeton is God's gift to mankind



As far as automotive engineering goes, it is still at the top of the list. As a whole, there are _very_ few cars that exceed it's specs. So yea...this guy treating it like a 1998 Civic is a little asinine. 





zeingred said:


> I will address each comment individually. First, it is my car and I will do as I please. Second, I have built a lot of bagged cars/trucks,


 You didn't answer any questions. The stock compressor will raise the car from full drop with no issues. Anyone who has ever had the car on a lift for an extended period of time cat attest to that.

I grew up in the 70-80's and lived through all the slammed mini trucks, cal look bugs, 64 Impallas, etc. You aren't ground breaking. I know it is your car, and I already said you are free to do what you want with it. That doesn't mean it is any less ruined or stupid. And if you state there isn't any more wear on components, you are only proving yourself even more foolish.

I'm not an elitist asshat for having an understanding of vehicle design and function. Suspension travel is a good thing. This car was designed to do 180+mph in absolute comfort. If anything, it is you, and the type of people that do things like this to vehicles but proclaim no ill effects and aspire to some greater class by sitting in a parking lot with other kiddies being 'too cool for school' that are the elitist ignorant pricks.

Eventually you will grow up and look back and realize how stupid the choices you made are.. just like the waiter that served me dinner tonight...with huge gaping holes in his ears. Bad life decision. He is disfigured for life. At least you can sell the car. Unless you too have large holes in your ears..from trying to be cool with the other kiddies.

:wave:


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

I do have huge holes in my ears and tattoos but make 120k a year as a electrical engineer. I'm a mini trucker at heart. I'm not claiming no I'll effects but I live in oregon and will not be doing 180mph so that augment in invalid. If you know anything about these cars (and I know you do) is that if you disable one part of the air ride none of it works. So because I put a airlift controller in it I had to put a compressor in then I might as well put a tank in it so the compressor doesn't have to run all the time. Calling my car **** because you do not like it makes you a asshat. The car still has full travel in the supention and set to factory tow, caster and camber. 

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## eiriksmil (May 9, 2006)

PowerDubs said:


> Eventlally you will grow up and look back and realize how stupid the choices you made are.. just like the waiter that served me dinner tonight...with huge gaping holes in his ears. Bad life decision. He is disfigured for life. At least you can sell the car. Unless you too have large holes in your ears..from trying to be cool with the other kiddies.
> 
> :wave:


Way to come off as a major douche.. Why should you care anything about how your waiter looks and who are you to judge if that's a bad life decision for him at all?

Besides this Phaeton was picked up at the same dollar as a Mk1/Mk2 Golf.. Why not have some good fun with it. Enjoy it for a few years, fix whatever break and sell what's left without losing too much coin. How on earth that's a stupid choice I wonder..

If you even have the balls to claim this is bad economy, compare the value loss of this Phaeton due to mods against what the original owners bought them for, then spent at dealerships for service, unschduled maintenance and repairs sitting on a car that's these days worth a tenth or 1/20 of their original sticker price..


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

eiriksmil said:


> Way to come off as a major douche.. Why should you care anything about how your waiter looks and who are you to judge if that's a bad life decision for him


Obvious answer is obvious. Politically correct and reality aren't synonyms. There isn't a person in the world that isn't judged by their behavior, appearance, actions, etc.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

eiriksmil said:


> If you even have the balls to claim this is bad economy, compare the value loss of this Phaeton



Seriously? That was your edit? What you came up with as an arguement? I could care less about what this guy does with his money. He can burn it or snort it. I could care less. Doesn't change what he did to a car. Cars are meant to be driven. They are vehicles. He made it substantially worse as a vehicle in order to 'look cool' in a parking lot.


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

Have you driven my car with out me knowing? Ready let's see if you can keep up? Stock air struts, stock ride hight while driving, stock camber, stock tow, stock caster, and at the end still within spec for stock air pressure in the stock struts at stock hight. If you did not catch that reread it.

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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I don't need to drive it to know that cut and weld shortening the shock body 2+ inches and changing the geometry of the control arms most certainly effects a lot. Start with roll center. There is a reason the slammed mk4 guys buy special uprights, the TT or R32 have different uprights from the normal Gti. 

As I've already said, it's your car. Have fun. Just don't pass it off to the casual viewer as 'same as stock.' As it is far from it.


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

It's not the shock body it's the lower mount. Have you ever taken one apart? So it still has the same travel as stock. It dose change the geometry when lower but a little bit more pressure (still within stock psi Perimeters) to bring it up that 2 inches and bam back to stock geometry. It's simple math. I will break it down for you if you would like. 

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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Travel does not equal geometry. For you to equal stock linkage geometry, you would raise over 2 inches. Higher than stock ride height shock position.. Well past the effective design operating range of the shocks themselves. Do we dare delve into discussion on spring rates and dampening during different points in suspension travel? Or the advanced factory ECU controlled shock pressure built into not only ride leveling and anti dive... but coexisting with ASR and stability control. The reason these cars are unflappable regardless of speed or turn is the suspension, both physical and computer controlling. You've neutered it. Haha. Forget it man. Have fun. It's late. Good night.


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Reflections on this thread*

Friends,

Over 10 years on this forum, I read many very useful and informative threads, some less useful and a few (very few) frankly irrelevant, but none unpleasant or disturbing until I came across this one this morning. Initially I was ambivalent about adding my own voice, but ultimately I felt compelled to add my own post for two reasons.

First of all, I care for this car, which I bought new ten years ago for practical reasons (I was facing a weekly 800 mile roundtrip commute and this was the best option that I could barely afford) introduced me to a range of extraordinarily interesting individuals, both members of this forum and in Dresden, its birthplace: they, and, to a significant extent, the car that linked us all, made my life richer, and I feel fortunate to have met them.

Secondly, I care for this forum, so different in tone form many others that I also frequent, and would like to try and preserve its competence and dedication, but also its civility, tolerance and good humour, as much as possible.

From this long preamble, you all will have already gathered that on the substance and the technical argument, I side firmly with Josh, whose competence, expertise and willingness to dive in and help I have come to admire and appreciate over so many posts. Over so many years around cars, ever since as a teenager I was tinkering with such distinguished specimens as a Peugeot 403 diesel pick up (with a whopping 45 HP) and a Renault 12 (which, re-badged, became the first production Lada in the heyday of the Romanian communist period and whose clutch pedal lever broke not once but twice while in my possession), I have learned that vehicle dynamics are the result of a complex interaction of subsystems, where suspension geometry (by the way Zeingred, it's "toe", not "tow") is only one set of variables, and that altering one in a modern car leads to a domino effect that is almost always unpleasant. 

On the other hand, I am disappointed with the tone of this thread, both from Josh and from Zeingred and Eiriksmil: simply stated, I do not feel comfortable criticizing other people's choices that I do not understand and would not adopt myself: this applies to both technical choices related to vehicles and personal choices of attire or body decoration. One thing I have always admired about America is its tolerance: by preserving it even in this forum we can all make it even more helpful and welcoming.

Let's agree to disagree, with civility, and move on.
Stefano


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

<yawn> I prefer a bit of spirited debate every now & then. It's nice to finally read a frank exchange of views without someone getting rapped over the knuckles by the headmaster.


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

I will simply say that I do not like customised Phaetons. Period. I also think that while control arm geometry is not exactly rocket science, it is indeed complex and not common knowledge. There is probably a bit of engineering and simulation software behind the Phaeton's suspension, and lowering a vehicle usually throws the geometry to pieces to varying degrees. The "approved" lowering kits usually consist of parts from a different and sportier version of the car, like RS6 vs A6, in which case the geometry again is carefully designed.

There are two types of Phaeton owners apparently; the purists and the others. I stick to the rather pure side, and without disrespect I say that I did not like the modified one at the top of the thread.

And I do like a civilized conversation carried out without affection...

All the best,

Per


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*We have arrived as a community, but could we back off the adjudication just a tad?*

Yalls,

We are witnessing an argument about the consequences of lowering on handling. Just a bit ago there was an argument about the value of air box modifications. There was a discussion about exhaust replacement...all we need is for someone to bring up sway bar diameter, and smoked tails...

People do stuff to their cars that they think are cool. To the extent that the forum serves as a place to come share and ask "how to", awesome. To the extent that it is an online forum for truth adjudication, I think it will (as has every automotive forum) fall on deaf ears and generally degrade the value to those who use it. People who cut and join metal with fire to make their car look a particular way are rarely destroying a DD and disrupting their ability to earn a living. No need to protect people from themselves. 

In my experience, the front end suspension contains a number of "wear components" that fail with use and require replacement. The car is heavy, and the design of the suspension causes a lot of motion under the car during braking, up and down travel, etc. (As Josh points out, this makes for an awesome ride). One has a choice between excess labor (bushing removal replacement) or cost (arm replacement). Anything that directs additional lateral force on those components is going to cause them to fail faster, and I suspect (but do not know) that this will be the case with the shorter arms and larger wheels. I also suspect (but do not know first hand) that the ride will not be identical to stock (because why on earth would it be? and so what? In fact, it better not be at that clearance...). I am terrified of what is going to happen to the piping at the bottom of that car (but it isn't my car, and I presume you will drive it differently than I drive mine e.g. stay clear of chicago roads and my driveway).

That said, custom goofing around with the air suspension because it is fun is (in my opinion) awesome. I think it is hysterical in the best sense and look forward to hearing updates about the car. There are few comparable luxury sedans out there that can be got for as little as you can get a (KESSY car, for example, Josh) that can be turned into some extensively modded personal expression luxobarge. Go for it. The modification of a stealth/"frumpy"-fat-passat/baby-bentley makes it all the funnier, rarer, and odder. 

-BD


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## bobster1969 (Apr 18, 2015)

I have modified a few more racecar type cars in my time and now that age has set in I am more along the lines of if it ain't fast enough buy faster or if it ain't low enough buy lower. 
I understand how the purists love this car and also why it's now an attractive buy for the modder. 
At the end of the day more modders will save this car from the scrap yard in future years. 
If I wanted a project car then a v10 or v12 phaeton makes this a very attractive build car and a cracking project due to the build quality. 
Guess as the years pass more phaetons will become new incarnates and who knows we may like a few as the progression takes hold and yes I have seen some mods that compliment the phaeton like wheels and exhaust and some that don't.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

pgoober said:


> Yalls,
> 
> all we need is for someone to bring up sway bar diameter


I did several months ago when I replaced the rear swaybar of my V6TDI and installed a V10TDI/W12 one...  

Gabriel


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Sorry guys if this thread is somehow 'disturbing' or makes you feel 'uncomfortable'. 

I'll readily admit that although what got me going was the comment "rides like stock"...my lack of filter, combined with some drinking allowed my post to go further than it should have.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

*Did not want to get involved, but I have to...*

Guys,
As some of you may be aware of, I used to work as a welding engineer for the aerospace, nuclear and wind power generation industry, although currently I run my own business. 
I do not want to get involved in the looks, the effects of lowering the ride and so on. I want to make my little contribution because what I found realy scary was the fact that the struts were cut and welded as if they were a piece of a garden fence.
In my "world", before any component is qualified to be welded a lot of studies and tests have to be carried out. Some of them are common sense, some other lie deeper within the fracture mechanics or metallurgical science. 
To me, a suspension strut is common sense. It is an structural part that is subjected to dynamic loading during all its operational life. Therefore, even if the weld beads look "good and sound" from the outside, it does not mean that they are fit for purpose. They may not fail, but if they do, the result could be deadly.

Gabriel


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I hadn't noticed that. Crazy. Having experienced a strut bag explosion while driving, I almost said something earlier after reading about the 2psi increase in pressure. I got lucky when mine went, I was on a straight road doing 40mph. I don't want to think about what it would have been like on a bend at 90. I'm unlikely to buy another car with air suspension after that experience.


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

Gents (and ladies, though I haven't noticed any here);

As a lifelong gearhead, I've modded my fair share of cars, trucks, motorcycles and boats. Some mods were purely for aesthetics, others for performance. Some of my mods probably made the vehicle less reliable and/or safe. As long as nobody else gets hurt, it's nobody else's business. The point made above about welding is certainly true. I've had steel tubing crack and fold under load right alongside one of my perfectly good looking welds.

Whether we like our cars factory stock or modified, it's a personal choice that should not affect how people communicate with each other in this forum. 

Cheers,

Dave


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## stratclub (Feb 3, 2007)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Guys,
> As some of you may be aware of, I used to work as a welding engineer for the aerospace, nuclear and wind power generation industry, although currently I run my own business.
> I do not want to get involved in the looks, the effects of lowering the ride and so on. I want to make my little contribution because what I found realy scary was the fact that the struts were cut and welded as if they were a piece of a garden fence.
> In my "world", before any component is qualified to be welded a lot of studies and tests have to be carried out. Some of them are common sense, some other lie deeper within the fracture mechanics or metallurgical science.
> ...


Really good points. You *DO NOT* want to weld on modern steel because you may change the heat treat properties of the metal which could lead to a catastrophic failure.

But I guess that doing something just because you can is all the justification you need to butcher a car.


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## zeingred (Sep 25, 2008)

This is the last post i will be makeing here on the vortex phaeton sub-forum. Call it what you will I love my car and have put 20k miles on her since " butchering it". Also I did have a buddy x-ray them when I got done with the second set that I did (from a a8) for my car. Thank you for proving my point as to why I waited and did not want to post here. You guys attacking my car is one thing I don't really care about but when one member attacks the way I look and calling my life/body mod choices in call me a pos is where I draw the line on participating, so way to go have fun with you stock phaeton circle jerk.

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## eiriksmil (May 9, 2006)

Motorista said:


> On the other hand, I am disappointed with the tone of this thread, both from Josh and from Zeingred and Eiriksmil: simply stated, I do not feel comfortable criticizing other people's choices that I do not understand and would not adopt myself: this applies to both technical choices related to vehicles and personal choices of attire or body decoration. One thing I have always admired about America is its tolerance: by preserving it even in this forum we can all make it even more helpful and welcoming.


With all due respect bud, I replied the way I did because of Powerdubs' lack of tolerance and his tone.. Lowered cars are not for everyone, I fully understand all reasons why someone don't want to do it to their cars. But attacking someone's persona for a $4k car is disgusting in my book.

Especially when someone is doing something 'new'. Not new in the history of the car, but new to Phaetons - I saw this thread pop up on Tapatalk and I've been looking forward to the day you'd be able to pick up a Phaeton on the cheap and have fun with it, because it's a very good car.. I don't have history with them, I wasn't one of the guys buying them new, I guess some take it more serious than others.. There will be more of these kinda threads in the future, just as with other D-segment cars that are coming to different demographics when they fully depreciate. My advice for some of you would to still enjoy this forum for the future would simply be to look away from slammed Phaeton threads or give pointers without any attitude or critic that's not constructive.. :beer: :beer:


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Zeingred,
I am glad you had them X-rayed. That way you know that they are free from imperfections such as lack of fusion, lack of penetration, voids, cracks, etc. However, what about the microstructure of the weld metal and the adjoining areas? Is it prone to cracking? Are the base metal and the filler wire/welding rods that you used compatible? You cannot asses any of them with a radiograph.
Perhaps, on some posts, the lenguage and attitude was not the most assertive, but neither my previous post nor this one are a criticism or attack to your work. I just wanted to draw your attention towards an area that is of utmost importance. As you stated previously, it is your car and you can do whatever you want with it and I agree with that. Nevertheless you have to be aware of the possible consequences of the mods that you made to your Phaeton. And, I trully believe, that it is what most of us, the "stock phaeton circle jerk" meant to do. 

Gabriel


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## Terry F. (Feb 12, 2009)

Needs 20 degrees of camber to be really cool. 

The car is basically unsellable at this point. But whatever, I don't like it at all but thanks for sharing it. I'm sure a lot of work went into it.

Terry


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## Mihau83 (Dec 26, 2015)

*Archival note*:

Mihau83's long series of photos from this post may be seen in his duplicate post here.

Chris


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## jac1d (Oct 18, 2014)




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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Forum Moderation*

=================================================

I have left this thread alone because it is symptomatic of the Phaeton's drift from an expensive new car to a remarkable object of street interest.

Tyler's post was made in good faith and his work is remarkable. However, the opinions expressed have been bordering on the downright rude, at a personal level.

THIS IS NOT THE WAY THE FORUM OPERATES.

Please think twice before posting comments that would start a fight in a bar.

=================================================

Chris


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## jac1d (Oct 18, 2014)

Paximus said:


> *Forum Moderation*
> 
> Please think twice before posting comments that would start a fight in a bar.
> 
> Chris


Now that is just some good advice, right there.

-Jeff


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