# 8v EG build



## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

It's now time to build a motor. After sitting on these parts for so long and my Jetta blowing a head gasket. Its time for me to assemble everything and start building.

First problem is the wrong Main Bearings. I'll use an "H" block instead of an EG block, and the 6pcs #3 mains is what was in there so I'll try to go that way.









Parts:
"H" Block
Heron Head
Heron Pistons
1.6 rods (136mm I couldn't find Audis and was too lazy to search)
1.6 80MM stroke Crank









Also assembling the GTI oil cooler. Autotech has spare parts and can use the Porsche Turbo oil thermostat. I am going to try to keep this period correct since i have all the GTI parts including the core support mount. It seems that Audi 5000 Turbo also uses similar parts like the oil cooler core which you can buy new. The hoses are going to be replicated also.









Since Autoech had a Sale I though I'd try the Cam Gear and intermediate shaft gear.









All this goes to the machine shop this week so I hope I show some progress as the assembly takes place.

If you see me make any mistakes please feel free to chime in. Hopefully the bottom will start coming together during the holidays.


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

:snowcool:



So that's two EG's that I helped build now by supplying blocks :laugh:


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## canceledczechMk1 (Aug 8, 2011)

*nice build man*

I'm doing a similar build, I have a 84 solid lifter 8v, +2mm supertech exhaust and intake valves, 82.5mm wiseco forged pistons 9:1cr, IE forged chrome-moly h-beams 144x20mm, sporttune valve springs and Ti retainers, forged crank, Gt3582 turbo, kinetic t3/t4 manifold,and walbro 255lph fuel pump..not sure what cam to go with yet or injectors, any suggestions would be very helpfull...I'd like to see what kind of number you get too haha


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

rod_knock said:


> :snowcool:
> So that's two EG's that I helped build now by supplying blocks :laugh:


You did well. The block seems to be in pretty good condition.

Had the bores checked and low measured 0.0025 and high was 0.0035. Not bad but after a hone I will be at the max on the high measurement. I believe the factory tolerance (Max) is 0.0040 so we estimate that that one high spot will be right at tolerance after the hone. Might consume a little oil after a while.

It's really a shame that people throw out those "H" Blocks. I am not sure if the EU got those, although they seem to be in possession of them in limited quantities. The "H" block and the Chrysler 1.7 have quite a reputation for those building upon the older block configuration. Aussies and New Zealanders are looking for them too.


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

canceledczechMk1 said:


> ...I'd like to see what kind of number you get too haha


Not sure my numbers will be as dramatic as yours. I was thinking of H beam rods but didn't find too much of a selection for 136mm rods unless I wanted to pay $1,000. 

I did find these but not sure about their worth:
http://maxspeedingrods-store.com/VW-Rabbit-16L-connecting-rods-4-pieces-CR-VW-Rabbit.htm


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

This engine might be fun in the future:


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

hurry it up a bit. 



I have some NOS oversize pistons that would great with that head. Lemme know if you want them. 20 bucks is enough :laugh:


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

for those audi 136mm rods, IM oldskoolvws . he may have a source. Also, the chrysler 1.7's had them......


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

I’m a bit confused now after these last few pictures being poated. In the beginning I read the thread and said to myself, OK someone is building an EG code engine copy. The block is an “H” which is almost exactly the same and will work although if you try to later sell it to a purest they will balk at the deal or reduce the price, but I doubt that is your intension. The head is a Heron, must have purchased it from overseas, and is I’m sure part number correct. From the picture it is hard to be sure but the pistons also look correct, also overseas parts? But then the last few picturs are of a different cylinder head. That head, although modified by Drake it seems, would not produce the “EG” copy you are looking to build. So what’s up? Have you changed your plans or were these last pictures a mistake or labeled wrong?


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

WaterWheels said:


> .... So what’s up? Have you changed your plans or were these last pictures a mistake or labeled wrong?


No I'm building the heron. The drake head is just sitting around for now. Maybe a later project.

The block and rods are at the machine shop right now. The head will get done after the block is finished. Head may go to Techtonics.


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

WaterWheels said:


> .... The block is an “H” which is almost exactly the same and will work although if you try to later sell it to a purest they will balk at the deal or reduce the price


Is there market for "Pure" EG motors in Europe? The 1.6 block i had was not usable since the rear head bolt had pulled a crack in the block, stretching from 1 water jacket to another. Is this a common problem with the 1.6 blocks? Seems even in Europe/ Australia they are saying its preferable to use the H or Chrysler 1.7 blocks.


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

The 1.6 blocks had a tendency to crack at the head bolts. The H bolts had many significant improvements.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

fwdvw said:


> Is there market for "Pure" EG motors in Europe? . . . Is this a common problem with the 1.6 blocks? Seems even in Europe/ Australia they are saying its preferable to use the H or Chrysler 1.7 blocks.


There are some who want to keep their Mk1 GTi 100% original. They are an old timer and some people collect them for rallyes or shows or just as collection vehicles. To them the block would have to be cast with the 1.6 and not the H. It is just like having numbers match, if two cars are equal at a show and one displays the H casting and one the 1.6, who do you think gets the cup and cash? For most it does not matter though. Common? Can't say if it is common but I have heard of it. Maybe preferable in Europe as the original are hard to find and then even harder to find in good condition.


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

rod_knock said:


> I have some NOS oversize pistons that would great with that head. Lemme know if you want them. 20 bucks is enough :laugh:


I'd love to take those off your hands. Compression height for a 1.7 or 1.6? What I need is another crank and please continue to preserve those H blocks.


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

fwdvw said:


> I'd love to take those off your hands. Compression height for a 1.7 or 1.6? What I need is another crank and please continue to preserve those H blocks.


1.6 



They're complete with rings, pins, pistons and all in the original wax paper wrapper. Shoot me a text or IM.


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

Bad pic but my block is done. Fresh out of the hot tank. Hone turned out good but not much left but should be right at max piston clearance on one cylinder.










Measurement on the mains were good, just need to have the crank checked next week and decide on the main bearings. Intermediate shaft bearing pressed in and the block should be done.


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

muffler bearing has the 1.7 from my gold car. You interested for that drake head? opcorn:


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

hmmm, interesting.


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

Just got my block back. Unfortunately I am leaving town for the week so playing with it will have to wait.

Nice Fresh clean block. Honed hot tanked and oil galleys cleaned.









Hone turned out great. This block had what felt like no lip, but you can see the slight ridge. Its only a discoloration, it very small so not a true lip that will catch the rings.









It was line bored cause i wasn't sure i got the correct caps. My mistake for having 3 sets of caps sitting around. Also Line bored with the ARP's in consideration. Main Studs I am told seat differently although slightly they should be considered when line boring.









ARP rod bolts installed and rods rebuilt
















Crank cleaned and a slight polish. Intermediate shaft was also cleaned.








Hopefully assembly starts soon.


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

Very cool engine build. I had a bored/stroked EG that was in a Scirocco I owned decades ago. It was fun until I broke a timing belt :banghead:

Considering an EG for my current Scirocco but I picked up a NOS VW rebuilt EN for $500 which is technically the correct engine for my car. It has decent torque but runs out of steam at about 5K.










Still have the original EN in the crate the rebuild came in (funny it was rebuilt by VW of Canada).


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Why not get the IM shaft turned(balanced), it does help.:thumbup: You would not believe how far some can be out, as they are machined between centers and not necessarily concentric to the actual casting.




fwdvw said:


>


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

ps2375 said:


> Why not get the IM shaft turned(balanced), it does help.:thumbup: You would not believe how far some can be out, as they are machined between centers and not necessarily concentric to the actual casting.



I would have considered balancing the intermediate shaft but its hard to get my machinist to do just basic things in a timely manner. It may have added months to getting my stuff done. As i see it, the factory didn't so I'm good with that. If I wanted to get every ounce of power out of this thing than surely I would have. 

I'm thinking now to spend the money on an LSD instead. The Line bore thing cost me some money that I didn't need to spend.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

fwdvw said:


> I would have considered balancing the intermediate shaft but its hard to get my machinist to do just basic things in a timely manner. It may have added months to getting my stuff done.


For 20 minutes worth of work on a lathe? I would consider finding another shop if that is the case.:thumbdown:


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

fwdvw said:


> I would have considered balancing the intermediate shaft but its hard to get my machinist to do just basic things in a timely manner. It may have added months to getting my stuff done. As i see it, the factory didn't so I'm good with that. If I wanted to get every ounce of power out of this thing than surely I would have. .



it's not the power you should strive for, but smoothness. 

VW had that lobe to run the mechanical fuel pumps. There's a reason why the 16v's, aba and newer motors don't have it. 


You should go to Elsworth Automotive.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Very cool build. :thumbup:

Good call on getting the Autotech cam and intermediate shaft gears. I've had those and weighed them along with the older style adjustable gears that were simply a stock gear with the spokes cut and plate bolted up. The Autotech gears were significantly lighter than the old adjustable ones, and the adjustable Autotech was quite a bit lighter than a stock gear.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

rod_knock said:


> it's not the power you should strive for, but smoothness.
> 
> VW had that lobe to run the mechanical fuel pumps. There's a reason why the 16v's, aba and newer motors don't have it.


I agree with the smoothness part of your reply. But, the lobe is the least of the reason for having the shaft turned. The shaft as a whole has a wobble in it, as they are not the straightest casting and depending on how they put the centers in it before the final machining, it could be better or worse. Once the shaft is turned on a lathe, then the center section will be concentric with the bearing surfaces and there will be no wobble or vibrations from that piece of rotating mass.

And, are you having the rest of the motor balanced? This is the perfect time to have all that done, VW does a pretty good job of that, but there is always room for improvement and it is not wasted money. This includes the FW and PP.


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

ps2375 said:


> I agree with the smoothness part of your reply. But, the lobe is the least of the reason for having the shaft turned. The shaft as a whole has a wobble in it, as they are not the straightest casting and depending on how they put the centers in it before the final machining, it could be better or worse. Once the shaft is turned on a lathe, then the center section will be concentric with the bearing surfaces and there will be no wobble or vibrations from that piece of rotating mass.
> 
> And, are you having the rest of the motor balanced? This is the perfect time to have all that done, VW does a pretty good job of that, but there is always room for improvement and it is not wasted money. This includes the FW and PP.



Shops can quickly and easily machine and balance the IM shaft. 

VW does do a good job on balancing the crank already, but you can get some extra smoothness through balancing the pistons/rods and balancing the clutch assembly/pulleys on the crank.


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

ps2375 said:


> Why not get the IM shaft turned(balanced), it does help.:thumbup: You would not believe how far some can be out, as they are machined between centers and not necessarily concentric to the actual casting.


now that i think about it, the lighter intermediate shaft pulley might work better with a balanced shaft. I'll think about this one.


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## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

rod_knock said:


> .
> VW had that lobe to run the mechanical fuel pumps. There's a reason why the 16v's, aba and newer motors don't have it.



basically the intermediate shaft isnt used on most of the 8v blocks 
correct?

i know my 1.7 and 1.5 dont really even need the lobe thats located behind the WUR


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

rabbitnothopper said:


> basically the intermediate shaft isnt used on most of the 8v blocks
> correct?
> 
> i know my 1.7 and 1.5 dont really even need the lobe thats located behind the WUR


If you want to drive the dizzy and oil pump, yes you need the IM shaft in all the 8V motors up to and including the ABA's.


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## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

ps2375 said:


> If you want to drive the dizzy and oil pump, yes you need the IM shaft in all the 8V motors up to and including the ABA's.




right i understand that
what i meant was the lobe for the mechanical fuel pump measurement isnt required

sorry i have been soldering too many wires today


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Ok, this is going to be a good build for me to follow.

Just to clarify, I have begun to assemble the parts for my own EG build. I have a the EG-specific head (inclusive), pistons, and the full CIS system. I was planning on using an EE/EF/EJ block and crank. Are there any EG specific parts that I need to worry about? Can I use a stock EG distributor? 

Curiously, what model is the H engine from?

Nice build so far. :thumbup:


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

scirocco*joe said:


> Curiously, what model is the H engine from?


Honestly I'm still on the fence as to buying specific EG parts. Correct me if I'm wrong

1) Must be CIS basic, but other than balancing etc. I am not sure how much better it could be than CIS Lamda. Flow is flow and I think CIS Lambda can handle a lot

2) I was reading that VW electronic Ignition is sufficient for a variety of things. Recurved Points ignition could some how be equivalent or EI might be better. I asked about re-curve, and they told me that for EI, its just adjustments based upon the weight of the car. Have no idea what that means

i read that the EG was actually in an Audi at the time. VW used an existing motor. Maybe the Audi 100. 

In the US we got it as the 1.7 block. It has been said it was a VW Motorsport block but i am not sure of that. 

Here are pictures of the differences and its said the H is a much more desirable block to use. VW people in the UK and Australia have lots of threads about these blocks and for them they are somewhat hard to get.

EG BLock









H Block









Theres lots of infer on the differences


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

rabbitnothopper said:


> . . . what i meant was the lobe for the mechanical fuel pump measurement isnt required


Could you expand a little on this?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

1. I have the 034 adapters and plan to run mine on digi I
2. weights in the dizzy are changed to adjust the curve. 
audi 80 gte


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

vwpat said:


> mechanical fuel pump drive no longer needed.


This I know, of course unless you have a carburetor and use a mechanical pump. What I had asked is to expand on this "measurement". Have owned many engines with fuel pumps mounted on the block and never read anywhere where there was data or requirements to remove the IM shaft and measure the lobe. Just wondered where the comment came from or if it was just, well you know . . .


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## rod_knock (Oct 4, 2010)

Run the a digi distributor and knock box with cis lambda. Why would you NOT want to have an o2 sensor adjusting mixture? :screwy:


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## fwdvw (May 12, 2000)

*Crank Assembly*

Had a therapeutic session with the block and crank today. 

First, an opinion, there is no real reason 3 piece or single piece main bearing and thrust bearing being worse or better than the other. For our intents and purposes there should be no logical advantage. I think what's important is to make sure your end play is correct which the separate thrust bearings being the biggest pain in the A$$. I think this is another Vortex Myth and more attributed to improper end play clearance. Have to make sure the thrust bearings are oriented correctly with the oil drain on the outside. 










ARP Main Bolts, you must remember to use the Lube during assembly. and the studs are only hand tight into the block. 

























Plasti-gauged the mains and all seem right in tolerance with the Bentley stating between 0.0012 to 0.003 in. Use the Green with a scale of( From tight to looser) 0.001, 0.0015, 0.002 and 0.003 inches. If you don't know, the wider the plasti-guage flattens out to the tighter the tolerance. 
Mine measured greater than 0.0015 and equal to 0.002. 

I think its funny some shops tell you "plasti-guaged" as a sort of premium assembly, when it should be standard. 
















Don't forget to clean off the plasti-guage from the main cap bearings. I found this while i was putting assembly lube on the main cap bearings. 

All button down but i need to torque them and shave down the thrust bearings (possibly). Clearance should be between 0.0012 to 0.003 in. I need some smaller feeler gauges to make sure. 









So for now she's assembled.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

If you look at the diff in surface area of the 2 types of thrust bearings and take into consideration as to which pp is used in the clutch, I could see why the single piece bearings would fail earlier than the oem style. And the oem style are not hard to deal with if you use some assembly lube to hold the pieces in place while assembly is taking place.


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## dr770 (Dec 31, 2011)

updates?***


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