# Just finished my msns set up and car wont start



## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

when I start the car I hear the fuel pump but the lights on the ecu dont turn on. Im wondering if maybe I need a different wire. Im running off a motronic fusebox and I was wondering where people were connecting there constant and switched power lines for msns on their cars.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

oh yeah I need to move the car tomorrow so I really need to get this figured out.... sooner the response the better!


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

follw the wiring diagram exactly and that tells you exactly where to hook everything up. its hard to give you advice without knowing whats all not working..is the inj getting power? power to the box? etc


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (VWralley)*

Seriously, but I understand your frustration. With key on, do you have 12v at the MS box? If you do, can you connect to Megatune with it? If that works, when you crank do you get rpm? If you get rpm, do you get any spark triggers (timing light is an easy check)?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

well my main concern right now is that the led on the ms box are not lighting up at all. So when I turn the engine it cranks but donesn't turn over. I hear the fuel pump come on, but I dont think there is any management going on for it. so thats why I was currious where your main and switched power spliced into.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

Sounds like you don't have any power at all, as long as you're feeding it with 12v with a big enough wire it will work. You using a relay board or wiring directly? Where have you taken power for the MS from? You using an entire CE harness?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

I bought a megasquirt wireing harness and im using the relay board. I was running the constant power of the relay board to the fusebox and same with the switched power. I could hear the fuel pump turn on when it made contact, so the switched was working, just not the constant so I think I will just run it clear to the battery instead of to the fuse box then I know for fact that it is constant power. If that doesn't fix it I am gonna re due the grounds and if that doesn't work, then its time to retest my ms :-(


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

k so some of the leds light up and blink when I try to start but I think that it is just not getting spark now so I think I might not have the right ignition module for it.....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

Blinking is good. What ignition module are you using? Both the 7pin one and the 3pin 'on coil' ones will work.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

I dont know but I remember checking the numbers awhile back and they didn't match up with any but it was an off brand too so I was just gonna try it. I am gonna hunt down a boshe one that I got 2 different numbers for YAY you pull it. so yeah and if that doesn't work then I will be lost.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

All the 7pin modules from VW's work the same way, so as long as it's for a VW fitment you're fine and can follow those instructions for the setup.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

well then I dont know why im not getting spark.... maybe it is a bad ignition module.... I dont know, just to be safe ill find one with compatable numbers


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

you can use an led to test the spark output on the MS box...
its possible that nothing is coming out of the box itself...


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (ValveCoverGasket)*

thats a good idea, you know the site that would tell me how to do that exactly? im sure I could figure it out with time, but it would be easier just to read how. Thanks Ved how is everything up north?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

busy









easiest way would be to throw a 200-300ohm resistor on the positive side of an LED, then hook the positive side of the LED to +12v, and the negative side to the coil output wire on the MS. if it blinks, youre getting the spark signal out...if not, then start looking at the board itself...









this same deal works for injector outputs, and just about anything else that the MS drives to ground


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (ValveCoverGasket)*

k so I know this is a stupid question, but can I do that test with the ecu off the car? and here is what I have for wiring which is a bit different then what I have seen here.....http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2755698
I have a wire going from the negative of D17 to x13
a wire jumping D8
a wire from xG1 to 11
and a wire from jp1 to the same spot on the above picture
his is different with the fact that it has nothing running to a led and a wire going to the same (block) of area as the jp1 wire
I havn't had a chance to run down a resistor and led yet so I havn't gotten to check


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maddubn* »_k so I know this is a stupid question, but can I do that test with the ecu off the car? 

the ecu needs to have power, ground and rpm going to it...so...probably not. unless you have a stim board handy.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (ValveCoverGasket)*

which I do







after visiting you guys and seeing how nice it is! but dont you have to modify your board for the stim to read rpm.... ill just do it on the car. so hook it up, put the led where it needs to be and turn the car over?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

As long as you still have the ignition input on pin 24 it'll read rpm from the stim.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

k so I just read something that says.....
1) Verify that you have a XG1 to XG2 jumper in place on the MegaSquirt® PCB. MegaSquirt® will not receive ignition pulse if this jumper is not there. See assembly step #54 for more details. 
is this true? cause mine is not jumped and I think it was for a reason....


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

WAIT!
checked back over my wiring and I had the ignition module wired wrong!!! I had the wire for the ground hooked to negative on coil and the wire for negative on coil was hidden under the rain tray! so ill keep you all posted


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

good to hear you found something http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (ValveCoverGasket)*

ok that didn't fix it and I am having a hell of a time finding the info for the spark output. I cant seem to get http://www.msextra.com or whatever website to load and I know its on there, everything else doesn't seem to address spark, just normal assembly.
I do have a wire running to the negative side of led 17 and it blinks the first time I turn the car over but not after and it is really dim. just for testing I have the switched power connected to constant power just so I dont have to track down the right wire.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maddubn* »_
I do have a wire running to the negative side of led 17 and it blinks the first time I turn the car over but not after and it is really dim. 


does this wire go straight to the coil - ...it shouldnt.
post a shot of your codebase and outputs page http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (ValveCoverGasket)*

You also need a pullup resistor on that circuit, 1k to 5v works. 
















Make sure it's wired like that and you should be ok.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

ok so I think I had board wiring issue, not too sure though.
I added the things that need a vr6 added and then ran the wires for spark according to duffmans diagram so yeah we will see how it goes


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

I hope you figure it out. I am having the exact same problem with mine. I have an 1.8 8V g60 Corrado with a T3 turbo instead of Supercharger. I have the exact, word for word problem with my MegaSquirt. 
Why shouldn't you run the wire direct from MegaSquirt to coil?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

cause it should go from the ignition module to the coil.... I did the mods to my board like I said todoay and will plug it in tomorrow and see if it runs. if not then ill let you know and me and you can battle this together. Ill take a picture of my board and you should do the same. label anything special you have done aside from the normal fuel only configuration and we will try to figure this out!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlbertoB1* »_
Why shouldn't you run the wire direct from MegaSquirt to coil?

Unless you have a VB921 ignition module installed, the triggering transistor can't sink enough current to make the coil fire. It could damage it as well, but I've never tried. If you have gone from one of the LED's direct to the coil, verify that the LED circuit still works when set to something other then spark.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

here's some pics


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

how did you mod the board to control spark?


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

that's the problem. I didn't do it. It was done at Renner Motorsports in Cali, but the car is now with me in Savannah. 
They sent me a link to how they did it. My car won't spark right now. The Dyno pics were before we tried to update MegaSquirt. When we tried to update, computer basicly crapped out.
Here's the link:
http://www.clubgti.co.uk/forum...53889


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Correction, my car won't spark right and they just sent me the link tonight so I will try to follow the setup and see if it works. Hopefully it will help you out also


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

Post your msq on msruns and link it here. I'm sure a few of us might find something wrong.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

msruns temporary unavailable.....Murphy's freakin Law


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

Damn you can email it to me and I can take a quick look this weekend. Just be sure to include the code version in the email.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

So I plugged mine back in with the mod boards and im still not turning over. One difference though is that the first light closes to computer port blink very brightly and easily seen. makes me wonder if it is the module....


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

is the module wired right? thatd be something to double check also


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

maddubn, 
Got it to fire. This is what we did:
Dwell settings (under the MegaTune Spark menu) to Fixed Duty and 50% duty cycle for most VWs.
FIDLE for spark output, under Codebase and Output Functions and 6 degrees for trigger. tommorow we will adjust timing, etc.
Send an e-mail to DIY AutoTune.com with specifics and pics. I sent Matt from DIY pics of both the top and bottom of board and what each jumper was connceted to plus the file we are using for megatune and with his help we did today what we have not been able to do for two weeks now.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

I have pin 27 Jumpered to Pin 24 (ignitor wire 6 goes to Pin 27)
Then X11 (connected to pin 25) is Jumpered to XG1
Then X12 (connected to pin 24) is Jumpered to JP1
On the top side you can see the labels X11,X12,JP1, etc
I hope this helps
























_Modified by AlbertoB1 at 4:33 PM 3-19-2008_


_Modified by AlbertoB1 at 4:35 PM 3-19-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

I won't comment on the wiring, as it works but it's definitely not standard. However you will need a min trigger advance equal to the max advance you want to run. Most VW's with the hall wiring and board mods correct run with ~60deg trigger.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Thanks, that's the question I sent to DIY tonight? Right now it's set up on 06 degrees, but we didn't mess with it since the car finally started. 
So is ~60 degrees the Max setting or min?


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

The wiring....well, like you said not standard. It was done a couple of years ago when the build up was done in Cali, that's probably why we had two weeks of headaches. It was already installed when I got the car.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

Well I would say for a street car you want a min trigger angle of 45 but I usually use 60. If yours is 6 and it's running, either the advance is way off or you're triggering off of the next window in the distributor. It could also be your plug wires are off one spot on the distro.
My advice at this point is to get it running and put an advance timing light on it and see where it thinks it is. After that you can change the trigger angle and rotate the distro until the trigger is in the range I've mentioned.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

I will post specifics tommorow, but I car is running really good. Using Fast Idle to trigger spark, changed settings so turbo boost doesn't come on right away. I have a broken pin that goes to Air Intake Temp, so car thinks it's -40F...


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Trigger angle set to 6 degrees. Has as much power as my MKIV 1.8T had, more torque though. Not going to get it dyno tuned till I fix the broken pin to air intake temp sensor


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

ok ill try to get picks of my set up, but i think I am going to have more problems then that..... I was going to do screenshots of my constants and all of that jazz and I did fetch from ecu and I got nothing from it, so it makes me wonder if there is anything even on the computer. um.... oh and how do you figure out a com port cause im not 100% possitive that the computer is reading it either.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

hey ved can you send me an .msq? for msns? I have the 9ysomething somethin somethin code


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

I am using 029Y4


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

same, gotta lap top, gonna try and load some of my own "pre-tunning" settings to see if she will start


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

We forgot to load cold start settings on mine, it takes for ever to start, I have to turn the key like twenty times and push in gas pedal until it warms up.
I think they are under the advanced tab. My lap top is dead, so I have to go back to the shop to do it.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

so update, its confirmed. I still have the original code running. I loaded megatune with the original code and then tested the connection and it was successful. so I need to load the msns code which I am reading about and then try and burn some stuff with 9Vs untill I can track down a laptop I can borrow.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

still need that msq?
you can get all the code files at the msns extra site, if i understood correctly that was the issue...?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (ValveCoverGasket)*

well now i need to load the firmware and for some reason neither easytherm nor this firmware downloaded are recongnising my boot thing being jumped.... not sure why. i even tried sauldering the wire on


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

You sure you have the right com port selected? Make sure you toggle power once jumpered or it won't 'take' either.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

well the downloader tells me to turn off power, unconnect coils, install jumper, turn on power then it goes to download it. then it says ms1.10 download
download failed " expected response boot>"
but recieved ""
so yeah not sure whats up


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

The only way to get "" response is if you have no communications, loss of power, or no boot jumper.
Check comms with hyperterm and make sure your serial communications are working.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*

huh weird, im not sure, when I ran megatune on the fuel only code, the ecu connects to the computer. ill look into the hyperterminal and mess around


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

I wonder if my stim board is keeping power to the ecu for the download, some lights light up at first when the battery is connected, but then they vanish so yeah....


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

how old is your 9v battery?


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_The only way to get "" response is if you have no communications, loss of power, or no boot jumper.
Check comms with hyperterm and make sure your serial communications are working.

last time i got tha the commucication thingy was fried


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (VWralley)*

can you be a little more specific then communication thingy? I was thinking that might be what it is, when I used a wall outlet with my stim bored one of the transisters was getting to hot and sunk down to the board so im wondering if that is hindering megasquirt getting power. Im looking for a replacement as we speak. Man I wish I had kept my laptop


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (maddubn)*

did you ever get your car working?
I can email you latest file settings I used with the exception that I am using FIDLE to drive spark. Still haven't nailed down cold start.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: Just finished my msns set up and car wont start (AlbertoB1)*

im on pause for a laptop.... sucks but yeah...


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

my laptop is dead too so I have to keep taking it to the shop during the week.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

grrr
k so I got a laptop and the cord for a usb drive and it says that it cant connect through com 1 or 2 but on 3 it works, but comes back with the same expected boot but got nothing error


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

so i re did my wiring again like this..... http://www.ottawa-vdubbing.com...15948
i am going to give it another shot to install firmware


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

k so I decided I needed to take a step back and breathe.... I still havn't fixed it but i feel better. I removed all the msns extra wiring mod crap to take the bored straight back to fuel. i re jumpered xg1 and xg2 and still have d8 jumped. i dont have a multi meter on me but ill check the lab really soon and see if i can get one. i do however have a little led test light so i texted circuits one by one and I think I found where my problem is. for I believe the serial circuit or whatever it is called, that you test with hyperterminal and try to get an echo back. well I only get one letter of whatever i type to appear and not 2... so im gonna look over a that whole circuit and maybe replace a couple things... how can I tell if something is bad or not? like if it is the crystal itself or this capacitor instead of that one....?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

You should only see two characters if you have local echo set on. If it's off you only get one, so double check your Hyperterm settings before going nuts troubleshooting the Max232 circuit.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

hmmmm I cant get anything to come up when the ecu is plugged in in hyper terminal..... im not sure what it is, blha


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

ok so its not the serial circuit allthough i think it might be the clock circuit. after going throught hte clock section, i test it on megatune and I get the clock to show up and count up, but..... the battery voltage that it is reading is 30V..... its got a 9V plugged to it so yeah..... somethings not quite right there.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

30v eh? Make sure you have the right resistors in place for R3 and R5. I've seen bad firmware cause this problem also, you might want to reflash to be sure.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

how do I re flash? like i cant even load new firmware or anything? i know the resisters were right when i first put them in, unless they are bad... I checked ohms in both of them also and they were ~ right


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Reflash = reload firmware. Give it a shot, and also measure the voltage at the bootloader there's a way to calculate the 'read' battery voltage from it.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

thats the problem, I cant get the firmware to load.....


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

what exactly happens when you try to load the firmware? error? nothing?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (VWralley)*


_Quote »_well the downloader tells me to turn off power, unconnect coils, install jumper, turn on power then it goes to download it. then it says ms1.10 download
download failed " expected response boot>"
but recieved ""
so yeah not sure whats up 


that comes up


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

That means you have 'nothing' either no power to the processor, or NO communications function. Have you gone back and checked for 5v at the processor?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

yeap power and serial circuits are both perfect. I wonder if I should try loading the original firmware again.... like the fuel only version then try an upgrade from that. Anyone got the page for using hyperterminal to load the original firmware and where I can get it?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

I haven't downloaded using hyperterm in a long time, I always use the download-firmware.ini


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

ive had that response only a few times, each time we replaced the little comunication chip deally an it worked perfect after that


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (VWralley)*

which chip on the board? U6? U1? which? when I pull out U1 and test the serial circuit it works perfectly


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

It would be the one labeled Max232 - U6 on V2.2


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

sorry for my super technical term


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (VWralley)*

Hey you at least communicated well enough so that I knew what you were talking about


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

do you think it is still that chip if I have gone through the test and it responds perfectly? is there another way to test the chip?


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Man....Sorry to hear you are still having issues. Mine is running but won't crank up correctly. In the process of getting it running I now also have to rebuild or replace turbo for broken oil seals, tranny is leaking and starter is getting worn out trying to start car, I expect it to die soon.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

that blows! hopefully we get these things figured out. Im tired of just looking at my car.... I want to drive it.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maddubn* »_do you think it is still that chip if I have gone through the test and it responds perfectly? is there another way to test the chip? 

I would double check the comms with hyperterm again, make sure you have local echo on with the two processor pins jumped and get two characters back.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

i did, although today while pulling out the cpu chip I broke a leg off :-( anyways new one ordered, 2-5 work days..... dang weekends!


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

YES!!!! I DONT KNOW WHAT I DID TO MAKE IT WORK, BUT THE NEW CODE LOADED!!!! 029V4 or something like that. im gonna see if it will make the car run now.


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## T3Bunny (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Hey if you (or anyone else) needs communications assistance or direct help, I have a little bit of experiance with the MS stuff.







Yeah I charge a little since this is how I feed yself now.







But I try to keep it reasonable.
But seriously if all else fails and your still stuck, hit me up on MSEFI.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (T3Bunny)*

ok so it wants to turn over, I can feel it but it isn't staying. I am wired like this....
http://www.ottawa-vdubbing.com...15948
and im running these tables
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3489705
the fuel and spark are not exact, but they are about that range, i double the crank values which is what they seemed to have a problem with and my required fuel is at about 13 or 14 ish 

I am running 24 lb/hr injectors and i believe the 2.0l 16v is 1984cc and i think i did air/fuel at about 14.5 ish
any ideas?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Shoot for a cranking/cold pulse around 7ms that should start it, 2.5ms running and warm will be close.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

so im a little confused about your answer. im looking at the crank/prime table right now and the bottom has from -40F to 160F. Do you mean 7 at the -40F point and 2.5 at the running temp? if so what is the average running temp?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Ps big props to VR6 and Ved (aka valvecovergasket) being there for help throughout this whole thing! for both me and alberto


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Maddubn and I switched places. My car is still sitting in the parking lot at work. Replaced Ignition module so now I have spark again, but doesn't want to start no matter what







. It will turn over and rev up and down and keep turning over when you let go of key but won't start just keeps cranking. Sounds like timing is completely off. How the timing jumped, I have no idea. I wish I had tons of money lying around, I would just gut it out and throw an R32 drivetrain into it







.


_Modified by AlbertoB1 at 1:10 AM 5-12-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

2.5ms at running temp (160) and 7ms around 50, the lower end of the table varies greatly from engine to engine and between different injectors. Hard to speculate down there!


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

ok so the numbers i had at those spots were just double so all i did was reduce them all by half and tomorrow I will give it a shot. Got my timing light also today so I can do that 60 degree thing I read about somewhere


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Good stuff, keep us posted.
Alberto, any way to double check your timing? Easy enough to check, also you might want to check fuel pressure also if the ecu seems like it's doing what it's supposed to.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

ok so it is trying to start. it looked like it was going to run and it made the IM RUNNING! noise then stopped.... possible things that I know could be wrong could be bad gas..... but should I try running a different fuel spark table maybe?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

K changed the tables to exactly the ones I posted earlier. Hopefully that helps


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

at this point it sounds like itll be a matter of tuning the cranking/after start/warmup stuff
what rpm is your cranking threshold set to?
did it make it into "running" mode before it died?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I dont know, im still doing this via no laptop..... sucks I know but yeah..... if it is under the more cranking stuff tab, it says Cranking RPM 300 TPS value for flood clear 175 (raw)


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maddubn* »_I dont know, im still doing this via no laptop...

Try and fix that asap, or it'll drive you crazy!


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

im allready there


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Ordered MegaSquirt-I 3.57 ECU and JimStim board from DIYAUTOTUNE.COM. $520 incl shipping







. I already have harness and I have the correct schematic. Most of wiring is correct, I have to change a few things like direct to coil instead of igniter, and re-connect ISV. Got my fingers crossed. Hopefully, new ECU will fix my issues. I already opened harness bundle and found no shorts or cuts so I know harness is still good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by AlbertoB1 at 7:12 PM 5-16-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

You can't run a stock VW isv without using a bigger transistor to drive it (even on the 3.57), the TIP120 mod works well.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

This is the wiring set up I'm going to use without stepper.
I ordered MS-I 3.57 with mod Inverse 5 volt Hall triggering for VW and Mod for single ignition driver output on pin 36. Also JimStim with Wheel simulator version 1.3










_Modified by AlbertoB1 at 4:41 AM 5-17-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*

Right but if you're using a PWM idle valve, there is still no on board transistor big enough to run it. You need to use a TIP120 or similar.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Oh, o.k. Can you run it without ISV?


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## mjleamy (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (AlbertoB1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlbertoB1* »_Oh, o.k. Can you run it without ISV?

Yeah, you will just have to hold the accelerator down for a minute or so until it warms up. You will not be able to compensate for the AC compressor when it kicks on either, if you still have AC. I recommend the TIP120 mod - it is easy.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (mjleamy)*

could this be something that I need? I removed my ISV as well but i just tried to start the car and it cranked over but then imediately died. could this be the problem or is this more like a table thing? GOD I WISH I STILL HAD MY LAPTOP!


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## mjleamy (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (maddubn)*

You can emulate the ISV by cracking the throttle open a little bit.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Yeah, I still have A/C. I already sent a message to Matt at DIYAUTOTUNE. I just ordered it Friday(yestarday) so hopefully he'll be able to do that MOD before it ships out.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

ok so my req fuel is 13.2 and my cranking from -40 to 170 is 11.6, 9.8, 9, 8.1, 7.3, 6.4, 5.5, 4.7, 3.8, 3.0. for afterstart enrichment, I did 250 for ASE TOTAL time and then took 45% of each number above for the -40 to 170F. For warmup table, I dont remember all the numbers, but its 180 for -40F and 100 for 160F. Im still not getting it to start, but I am not really sure where to go to from here. I am also using 4 squirts simultanious. 


_Modified by maddubn at 12:05 AM 6-6-2008_


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

another question, how much torque does a factory 2.0l 16v have? im not sure if my generated fuel table is quite right. and does that generate table thing work for the spark also?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

I have an msq HERE for a 2L 16v running ITB's with G60 injectors. If you change the req_fuel to match your injectors the car should start pretty easily.


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## AlbertoB1 (Dec 29, 2007)

Got car wired up, computer works and guess what happened? Starter died!


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

tried to turn it over with the other msq, but didn't start. the laptop i was borrowing didn't show up today either so it is hard to know why its not starting. I think tonight im just gonna do a bunch of reading.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

when setting your cranking numbers, a lot of stuff has just said about 88% for -40 and 23% for 170 of your required fuel.... what about for the middle numbers? just guestimate or do they fill in on their own based on your two end points you assembled? 
and does anyone have another tunning website they use? ive read over the megasquirt.info one, and would like another to look at also.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

That sounds about right, grumpier cars will want to be richer then that though. You need to fill them in, but going linearly from one end to the other over temp is a good start. 
The SDS site has some good general tuning information, though you'll have to convert it to 'ms speak'.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

k so i tryed it again and still no go, it is usually at about 1.somethingish on the far right upper tach.... about 10 on the one right next to it to the left, 10 on coolant temp, 68 on intake temp, map is about 98, and the thing that is weirding me out is the AFR is at 28..... could this be my problem? 
I tried a bunch of different numbers on the cranking settings and some sounded a little better, i could tell by smell when the numbers were too high cause i would get this really rich gas smell like when it floods. 
The faster the advise the better I really need to get this thing moved!!!!! so dont feel like you should wait to comment. How do I take screen shots of my readings? 
I also did datalog or whatever it is called and I dont know how to check over that stuff. any help?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

10 on coolant? it sounds like youre sensor is shorted, or theres something wrong with the wiring there
the 28 AFR you were seeing was because the 02 sensor either wasnt wired into the MS or the gauge wasnt set up in megatune, i wouldnt worry about it
also, after everytime you smell raw fuel, its a good idea to pull the plugs and dry them off again.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

or i just cant type..... its about 70 ish, it sits around 5-10 higher then the intake temp...... i am running a narrowband for now, but earlier I was getting different numbers then 28 for the map.... hmmmm I wonder if my plugs are just fouled. I dont have a socket at school with me so ill have to wait till i head home... I know for possitive it is getting spark now. I had a friend turn over the car while i had aluminum foil in the plug wire.... kinda electrifying.... sorry i had to0... anyways i think im gonna use the msq from VR6 and throw your vex files into the mix and just see what happens.
oh yeah he has dealt with a little stand alone for his hondas.... boo hondas..... but anyways he says it sounds like it wants it, he thinks its just gonna be something small.


_Modified by maddubn at 2:16 AM 6-9-2008_


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

and I was poking around your website and your GTI is looking baller! how much longer till its gracing the world with its beauty? for everyone else ive seen this thing in person and it is the ****! you want something done right and you live near them hit em up!


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

oh yeah I had trigger angle set to 60 and we read the F1 thing and it said for factory it should be between 5 and 15 so we dropped it and it sounded better also.
just read back over that F1 thing and read into the HFI5 and the TFI and i dont think I have either of those so I set it back to sixty


_Modified by maddubn at 3:27 AM 6-9-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

60 should be close, get a timing light on it and set the fixed angle to 6deg and then look for the 6deg mark on the flywheel. You should see it even at cranking speed.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

are those two sixes suppose to be sixties? i think they are but thought i would double check


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

No, your flywheel will probably only have a 6deg and a TDC mark, if you set fixed to 6deg with a static timing light you should see 6deg. If not you can turn the distro or change the offset to make it match. If you have an advance timing light you can use anything you want in fixed, just set the timing light to match.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

I didn't get a chance to get out to the car today, but i got to thinking about the place where the isv used to be and was thinking about the plate i made to block it off. its not very thick, but i didn't think it would need to be since that should be under vacuum right? but then i got to thinking what if there is a vacuum leak there? could that keep the car from turning over?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

if there was a vacuum leak during cranking, or there was little to no combustion going on, youd see really high numbers (near atmospheric) on the MAP sensor...what are you seeing during cranking?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

map sits at around 98 during cranking... maybe even drops a little bit


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_No, your flywheel will probably only have a 6deg and a TDC mark, if you set fixed to 6deg with a static timing light you should see 6deg. If not you can turn the distro or change the offset to make it match. If you have an advance timing light you can use anything you want in fixed, just set the timing light to match.

have you done this yet?
it sounds like its not really making any fire in there...


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

I havn't yet. I didn't get a chance to work on it today. started a job at this physics place and came home and crashed. I dont think it is firing either, but i know its getting spark as i held some foil while it was cranking.... not the best idea but whatev it worked.... so for that i set the fixed angle on megasquirt from 60 to 6 and then light it and if it hits the mark then set it back to 60?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Trigger offset should be ~60
Fixed should be -10 normally, or set to whatever you need to use with setting the timing with the timing light (6deg if you have that mark on your flywheel).
At no time will the fixed be anywhere near 60.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

ok ok i see what you are talking about. mine was set to trigger return and I couldn't change that option. It has been at 15 for the whole time. Should i change it to timed and leave it, or change it to timed, set the number to six and then return it to trigger return?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

oh yeah and one more simple question.. it has been awhile since i used the timing light, which spark plug wire should it connect too?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

Connect it to cyl #1. If you want you can email me your msq and I can take a look real quick to make sure it's set up right.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

ok so i tried to get it started for about 2 hours today, and no luck. I kept shifting my fuel table by 1 over and over and cranking and i think i found where it is optimal, as in it sounded closest to running. When I run realtime display and crank it, warmup wizard and afterstart are both red. how should I go about tunning them? like 1% intervals or 10% intervals, up or down? I could do it like i did the fuel table but that took quite awhile. any tips would be awesome. Also my afr still reads 28 constantly. Should i just tell megasquirt that im not running an 02? cause if it is broken and its trying to use it then that could be a problem.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

it shouldnt be using the AFR until its actually running, and it sounds like its not leaving "cranking" mode. i wouldnt worry about that yet..
i would be worrying first about the cranking and after start tables, rather than focusing on the fuel table, as that has no use until the car actually cranks and catches


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

ok so bad day! I went to mess with the cranking numbers and when i plugged in the ecu, the fuel pump just kept going till fuel pored out of the cold start injector block off. then my friends laptop went crazy and was dumping physical memory or something, and now my ecu wont get any power.... the laptop is fine thank god, but any ideas on why my ecu wont start? ill have to wait for a bit to try and get a multi meter to test the power circuit


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

you sure the ecu didnt just dump all the code?
id try reflashing the software first...


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

tried reloading the code and it didn't work... I dont think the unit is getting power at all. ill find a multi meter as soon as i can and check the circuit


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

did you blow a fuse?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

it shouldn't be a fuse cause im not getting any power to megasquirt fromt he stim board either


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

hooked up a multi meter super quick to my ecu today at the end of work and got 3.4V out of one of the tests and the others didn't show at all. I think I might just try replacing the power circuit. Any other ideas before I tear it all apart?


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

since I dont have a multi meter I used an LED today to test the power circuit and the light lit up for everything... not sure what the voltages are though THink I figured it out, When I put the chip back in and try testing the circuit again, the light doesn't light up at all. so I think the circuit is fine and the chip is bad. Anyone agree?



_Modified by maddubn at 7:56 PM 6-28-2008_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (maddubn)*

based on what you said, it sounds like the chip is fried...


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

good that makes me happy that it sounds like its just the chip cause that is an easy fix. I just wish I knew what caused it. All the fuses are still good.
Ok so i just checked it again and it is still getting power!!! even through the chip so now I have no idea what the issue is but megatune isn't recognizing it being hooked up.


_Modified by maddubn at 7:01 PM 6-29-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (maddubn)*

You try and reflash it? Sometimes with corrupted firmware everything will look ok but not communicate with MT. If flashing doesn't work do the check in the Megamanual for the MAX232 testing with hyperterm and pins 12/13 jumpered and the processor out.


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## maddubn (Nov 13, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

it wont reflash, but I still keep thinking its a power issue. What does it mean if the lights blink a little on the stim board when the wires are moved over the top of the battery but not when connected? is it low battery? I thought I got a new one, but I might not have I guess.


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