# What Chiptuners Do



## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

I have been asked lots of questions about this topic lately, so here's what chiptuners do:
The chip is a Flash ROM that stores all of the operating instructions for your car (sort of like the OS installed on your hard drive). There are also EEPROM's that store stuff like Immobilizer ID #'s, Fault Codes, Trim Settings, etc. This info is kinda like the BIOS on your PC. So, even if you swap hard drives (Chips), your BIOS doesn't change. Make sense? This why you do not need to mess with the Immobilizer if you get your original ECU chipped, but you do need to mess with it if you install a different ECU.
APR: They desolder the Flash ROM and replace it with a soldered-on circuit board that contains a couple ROM and one EEPROM (I think). This allows them to have multiple programs and prevents overwriting by the dealer. There would probably be an error that tips them off if they try to flash it.
It doesn't look like a stock chip if you open the ECU.
GIAC/Wetterauer/Autotech: They desolder the Flash ROM and replace it with two sets of soldered-on pins rising up from the circuit board. Onto these pins, go either:
A) A circuit board with an encryption circuit and a socket holding a FLASH ROM with the performance program. The encryption circuit may prevent overwriting at the dealer, but would probably result in an error that tips them off if they try to flash it.
B) A circuit board with a socket holding a FLASH ROM with the stock program. This could be flashed at the dealer, just like the stock chip in its original configuration.
It doesn't look like a stock chip if you open the ECU.
Upsolute/Neuspeed/Autothority : They desolder the stock chip and reprogram it with a performance file before resoldering it in place. This could be flashed at the dealer, just like the stock chip in its original configuration. There is the capability in the chip-burning equipment to prevent flashing - not sure which tuners use this. If done correctly, it looks like a stock chip if you open the ECU.
Any corrections or additions are appreciated.
Edit: MRP2001GTI noted Autotech uses the same socket scheme as GIAC/Wett.


[Modified by [email protected], 2:03 PM 8-3-2002]


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

Great info Andy!
One thing to note is the differnt EMCS versions from APR. The older version (which most APR users have) is the soldered on daughterboard like you mentioned. The new EMCS v2 has all the same functions of the older EMCS, but it is all in a small chip that looks just like stock.
Add: Not sure if this means it can now be flashed or how it holds all the different programs. You were at the BBQ when they showed it. Any details?


[Modified by einsig, 10:51 AM 8-2-2002]


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (einsig)*

I haven't seen the EMCS2. If it looks just like a stock chip, does that mean you can't program it with their home programming tool? The EMCS has a port on top of it for plugging in the programmer.
This is what a stock chip looks like (top right):








Except it has writing on it like:








AM29F800BB
-90SC
0046EBN HH
(C) 1996 AMD
Are you telling me that APR is putting an AMD copyright on their EMCS?








Here's the current EMCS installed:








The bright green circuit board with the two chips on it is the EMCS module that is soldered in place of the stock chip.


[Modified by [email protected], 12:05 PM 8-2-2002]


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

Yeah I'm confused as to how they can do it all w/o the daughterboard, but shortly after the BBQ there were pics posted of the new EMCS and it was one chip that was virtually identical to stock.


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## KrautFed (Jan 9, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

Andy,
In the July 2002 edition of Eurotuner Magazine (The Ultimate Driving Machine: Project E46 Is Complete {picture of their red BMW on cover}), from page 35 to 37 is a "Tuner Tech" section. Its from the magazine's visit to APR at the APR BBQ. The section describes what you are looking for (EMCS 2). It even has a picture on page 37 of the Stock, EMCS, EMCS 2, and "Brand X"







next to each other. Hope this helps!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (KrautFed)*

Yeah I know those pics were posted here...search needs to come back up.


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## Shaka (May 20, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

APR EMCS-2 is more stock looking but still has a VERY thin ribbon opening for the cable. It is a more compact package and looks more stock to the naked eye, but once a closer look is taken you can still ID it as "modified"...








Excellent write up, Andy.... glad to see you're keeping yourself busy!


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## 02 GTI 1point8T (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (Shaka)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Excellent write up, Andy.... glad to see you're keeping yourself busy![HR][/HR]​he got tired of posting links to that 'nightpager' fake bov noise thing...


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (02 GTI 1point8T)*

I still think that is an excellent product.








No DTC's, no performance loss, adjustable sound ... BRILLIANT!!!


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

andy, thank you.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (screwball)*

You're welcome ... any more info? Pics of various chips would be cool.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

Bump ... can this be in the FAQ too?


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## AxeAngel (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

only if i can title it *  Why we love Andy so much  *


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## Jeckyll (Feb 24, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (AxeAngel)*

quote:[HR][/HR]only if i can title it *  Why we love Andy so much  * [HR][/HR]​... I don't see a problem with that


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## Damir (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (Jeckyll)*

A bit of OFF TOPIC, but can you tell me which chips are soldered permanently into the ECU, and which ones are not?


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## wob337 (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (Jeckyll)*

nice write up! Only one concern (on the manufacturers side here): Can an aftermarket chip like GIAC be pulled from the ECU and have it's data read. If so, can that data be written to or copied to another stock chip?


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (Damir)*

quote:[HR][/HR]A bit of OFF TOPIC, but can you tell me which chips are soldered permanently into the ECU, and which ones are not?[HR][/HR]​I don't think I understand your question. All 1.8T's have Flash ROM that is soldered to the circuit board. Some older VR6, TDI, and 2.0's have chips that are factory socketed, PLCC design. These are removable by hand.
wob337 wrote:
quote:[HR][/HR]nice write up! Only one concern (on the manufacturers side here): Can an aftermarket chip like GIAC be pulled from the ECU and have it's data read. If so, can that data be written to or copied to another stock chip?[HR][/HR]​That's the purpose of the encryption chip. The Flash ROM containing the performance program would be gobbledy-guk if you tried to read it and it would not work if you tried to use the code in a car without the correct encryption chip. The encryption chip goes between the ROM and the rest of the ECU and I believe most tuners have gotten pretty clever with the encryption so, you can't just read the ROM through the encryption chip.


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## wolfier (Mar 2, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

quote:[HR][/HR]I haven't seen the EMCS2. If it looks just like a stock chip, does that mean you can't program it with their home programming tool? The EMCS has a port on top of it for plugging in the programmer.
This is what a stock chip looks like (top right):








Except it has writing on it like:








AM29F800BB
-90SC
0046EBN HH
(C) 1996 AMD
Are you telling me that APR is putting an AMD copyright on their EMCS?








Here's the current EMCS installed:








The bright green circuit board with the two chips on it is the EMCS module that is soldered in place of the stock chip.

[Modified by [email protected], 12:05 PM 8-2-2002][HR][/HR]​Powered by ATHLON XP
Just kidding


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (wolfier)*

Here is a picture of an EVC encryption daughter board. This is similar to the systems used by GIAC/Wetterauer/Autotech:








What you can't see in the picture is the encryption chip underneath the circuit board.


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## jim wilson (Jan 20, 2000)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

read the encryption chip


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (jim wilson)*

D'oh! Looks like EVC's site is down.


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

Okay, back up now.


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## turbo90awd (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

A good friend of mine has a A4 1.8T with a Wetterauer chip. He had a couple previous revisions of it and an extra daughter board. I want to install this on my 1998 A4 1.8T but, I'm not sure if they change anything else on the ECU. Here are my questions:
1. Is there any resistor/diode/capacitor that wett installs on the ECU in addition to the socket for the flash memory?
2. Can this chip from another indentical car be used on mine, do they program any vehicle specific features on each person's chip? Or is this chip only used for fuel/boost tables (no settings that pertain to other electronics in car)?
3. Where can I buy a set of the legs to mount the socket onto for my ECU?
I know I can install the chip myself. I used to playstation mods and car radio repairs but, want to make sure I have everything ready before I do this. I would buy a spare ECU but, they are rather costly and probably unecessary for me.
Any ideas? Anyone?


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## turbo90awd (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (turbo90awd)*

Someone must know something about this. Help me out guys.


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## Crass! (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (02 GTI 1point8T)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Excellent write up, Andy.... glad to see you're keeping yourself busy!
he got tired of posting links to that 'nightpager' fake bov noise thing...







[HR][/HR]​Y0 that than rules y0! It makes the bov sounds like _maaaaad_ y0! Check my sig for shizzle mah nizzle


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## Crass! (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (Crass!)*

oh, and great post Andy! Very informative, as always.


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## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (einsig)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
One thing to note is the differnt EMCS versions from APR. The older version (which most APR users have) is the soldered on daughterboard like you mentioned. The new EMCS v2 has all the same functions of the older EMCS, but it is all in a small chip that looks just like stock.
[HR][/HR]​Are there any benefits to the v2 over the "older version?" And how can you find out what version you have?








I got my APR chip in early September of 2002.


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## Golf 2 Slow GLS (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

This should be posted in the FAQ. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

I found a pic of EMCS2.








This is what a stock chip looks like (top right):








Except it has writing on it like:








AM29F800BB
-90SC
0046EBN HH
(C) 1996 AMD
This is what EMCS2 looks like:


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (turbo90awd)*

quote:[HR][/HR]A good friend of mine has a A4 1.8T with a Wetterauer chip. He had a couple previous revisions of it and an extra daughter board. I want to install this on my 1998 A4 1.8T but, I'm not sure if they change anything else on the ECU. Here are my questions:
1. Is there any resistor/diode/capacitor that wett installs on the ECU in addition to the socket for the flash memory?[HR][/HR]​I don't believe they do. The Flash ROM is the only thing replaced.
quote:[HR][/HR]2. Can this chip from another indentical car be used on mine, do they program any vehicle specific features on each person's chip? Or is this chip only used for fuel/boost tables (no settings that pertain to other electronics in car)? [HR][/HR]​As long as the part number of the ECU's are the same, the chip should work, i.e. 8D0 907 557 N
quote:[HR][/HR]3. Where can I buy a set of the legs to mount the socket onto for my ECU?[HR][/HR]​They can be either round or square (I believe Wett's are round). They buy them somewhere, maybe you could find the source, but a safer bet would be to see if they will sell you a set of pins.
quote:[HR][/HR]I know I can install the chip myself. I used to playstation mods and car radio repairs but, want to make sure I have everything ready before I do this. I would buy a spare ECU but, they are rather costly and probably unecessary for me.[HR][/HR]​Trust me, buy a used one from http://www.car-part.com (maybe $150-200), well worth it for peace of mind and swappability.
quote:[HR][/HR]Any ideas? Anyone?







[HR][/HR]​


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## TRBNIUM (Oct 2, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

OK, any way besides prying open the ECU and physically looking?


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## turbo90awd (Nov 25, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

Andy,
Can I use a ECU from a Passat if it is exactly the same part number? Mine is a 8D0907557P and I found one from a Passat with the same number. 
I called Wett and they will flash my chip to the 1bar version (currently have .8bar), send me a stock chip socket and send me the pins to mount my sockets on for $70 including shipping. You were right about the adding other parts question I asked. Nothing but the socket with the encryptor chip underneath. So I'm pretty happy. 

I'm just trying to find a safe way to desolder the chip without damaging the solder pads. Do you think a 15w soldering iron is enough? Or should I use a 30w? I have a soldering gun but, I've read that they use an electric current that runs through the tip to create heat. Apparently, this high current can damage the chip and possibly other components on the board. 
Thanks for the help Andy!


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (turbo90awd)*

My advice, after doing hundreds of chip installs, is let someone else do it. I have an ESD 137 60-watt adjustable iron with 30 mm tweezers. And that's the inexpensive setup at about $250. You can get a hot air rework station for thousands that's a little easier and neater. You need to simultaneously heat either 22 or 44 pins spaced about 1 mm apart, without lifting pads or damaging the circuit board. Then, you'll need to neatly resolder all 44 pins without bridging or damaging the chip or board. Surface mount soldering is tricky business and takes practice, something you definitely don't want use for practice is the only ECU you have. 
Oh yeah, Passat and A4 ECU's are interchangeable ... provided their part numbers match.


[Modified by [email protected], 10:31 AM 12-11-2002]


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## [email protected] (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*

I wrote some stuff for a MINI board and figured it's relevant here as well:
I've had sockets installed in ECU's in previous cars and would never do that again. Here's a brief history of socketing:
In the olden days (like, y'know, back in the mid-90's) some ECU's were equipped from the factorty with PLCC chips. These had very sturdy legs that wrap under the chip, like this:








The PLCC chips fit snugly into sockets, that are soldered directly to the circuit board:








PLCC chips are designed to be removed and install by hand (with a little pick tool). PLCC's may be rated for 10's of thousands of insertions and removals without failure. If you are interested in inserting and removing chips, PLCC's are GOOD!
PLCC chips are often only once writeable (sort of like a CD-R) but the chips are dirt cheap. You could own both a stock chip and a performance chip, and keep one in the ECU while the other lives in a little jewel box in your glove compartment. I had a Neuspeed chip for my '97 VW GTI that worked just like that.
At some point, manufacturers switched to a PSOP layout, in which the legs of the chip are very thin and are splayed outwards, like the image on the top right:








These chips are in no way designed to be used with a socked - EVER. They are to be soldered directly to the circuit board - all 44 of their little legs. This is a one-time operation. The chips are not intended to be removed.
That said, a person with the correct surface-mount electronics skills and equipment can remove a PSOP chip from the circuit board, clean off the legs, and place the PSOP chip into a programmer. Then, the program is saved from the chip to a PC, the chip is erased, and a new program is loaded onto the chip. The PSOP chip is then resoldered to the circuit board by hand (remember, all 44 legs need good solder joints and none can be touching - oh yeah, there is 0.5 mm between legs).
So, a very skilled, patient person with some expensive equipment can remove a stock PSOP chip and install a reprogrammed (or new) PSOP chip. What happens if the end user (who is neither skilled nor patient, and has no surface-mount equipment) wants to change programs? Well, even though you aren't supposed to use sockets for PSOP chips, there ARE PSOP sockets - go figure.
This a coffin-style socket:








This socket is soldered to the circuit board in place of the PSOP chip. The chip is then placed inside the coffin and the doors are closed and snapped shut. This is, IMHO, a horrible design, since you are now relying on 44 separate fingers to maintain contact on the legs of the chip, which were never designed to have anything other than a solder connection. Also, the aligmnent of the legs is critical, so a new, rather than used, chip is pretty much mandatory. I have seen these sockets fail at the worst possible time. You are best to pretend you never heard of them.
Another, similar socket is the slide-lock socket. In this scenario, the socket is soldered to the circuit board. Then, the PSOP chip is set into the socket and a locking frame is placed around the chip. When the frame is slid a few mm, it snaps into place, pressing down on each of the 44 pins. I have also seen these sockets fail at the worst possible time. You are best to pretend you never heard of them as well.
Another approach to socketing PSOP is this. Once the PSOP chip has been desoldered from the circuit board, 44 pins are soldered to the circuit board, pointing straight up. A "daughter board" equipped with 44 holes is then slid onto the pins. This picture shows a daughter board with the 44 holes on the underside left (two rows of 22) and a slide-lock socket holding a PSOP chip:








The daughter board can either have a socket soldered to it (as in the above diagram) or have the PSOP chip soldered directly to pads on the daughter board. Often, chiptuners employing this method will use an encryption chip on the underside of the daughterboard to discourage copying. So, if you buy a swappable setup, you may get one daughter board with the encryption chip and a socket containing the performance PSOP, and another daughter board with only the stock chip soldered directly to it.
I'm not a fan of the daughter board approach since A) you are still relying on 44 separate mechanical connections (88 if you have a socket on the daughter board) rather than soldered connections as the chip and ecu designers intended, B) Removal and insertion of daughter boards can put strain on the pads and traces on the circuit board, causing potential cracks and failure, C) Users opening and touching components in their ecu's can send static electricity to the board, causing permanent damage to sensitive components.
I believe Wetterauer uses a system very much like the daughter board above.
So far, other than the factory PLCC approach (which is still subject to the static discharge concerns) none of the socket methods seem like a good idea. What other alternatives are there?
Well, you could go with a piggy-back system, in which you cut the wires between the ECU and various sensors. The piggback is spliced in and it corrupts the signals to varying degrees, in effect "lying" to the ECU. IMHO, this is a very bad idea as well, since it is throwing the factory's diagnostic capabilities out the window. The ECU no longer actually knows what is in spec or out of spec because its connection to the outside world has been cut and replaced with a distortion of reality.
So far the picture looks pretty bleak for chipping. Well, luckily BMW (and most other manufacturers) have the ability to flash new programs via the diagnostic port on the vehicle. No removal of the ecu, no desoldering, no contact with the chip. Just plug a PC into the car and VOILA! new program.
Some chiptuners have reverse-engineered this process (MTH, Superchips, Revo, Jim Conforti, etc.) and offer flash upgrades.
Of course, flashing only offers the safe way to get a program into the car. What the program contains is still up to the chiptuner and is only as good as the knowledge and skill of the guy writing the code. It is completely possible that a company could have a very good program, but not have a good way to get that program into the car, or vice-versa.


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## mtiede (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*


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## Spool'n Turbo (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (mtiede)*

wtf?


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## O2VW1.8T (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (Spool'n Turbo)*

back from a 3 year dead


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

Andy, I don't understrand your post. APR mainly programs their PCM's via what is called DPP. Direct Port Programming- there is no opening of the PCM or soldering or anything. This is the current market choice I see in the field for everything from VW's to Ford turbo diesels. The data is stored on the existing chip(s) inside the PCM (or on a device that plugs into the OBD port) and encrypited as I understand to make it unreadable. Thus now if one opens a PCM it's all OEM- just different 1s and zeros that the driver can select from (speaking of APR here) via the cruise control stalk/controls. This includes what is called a stock program- a topic of much discussion lately. There is still a choice of installing a chip I believe from APR for some applications. Not sure on that one.


_Modified by slickfisher at 10:19 PM 7-14-2005_


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (slickfisher)*

call michael j. fox, you went back to the past (**welcome to 2002 slickfisher**)....


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## QuickK03Crap (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: (screwball)*


_Quote, originally posted by *screwball* »_call michael j. fox, you went back to the past (**welcome to 2002 slickfisher**)....

Bwah ha ha, why the hell was this bumped?


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## HRD GLI (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: (QuickK03Crap)*

outdated much?


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## Matt-K (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (slickfisher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slickfisher* »_Andy, I don't understrand your post. APR mainly programs their PCM's via what is called DPP. Direct Port Programming- there is no opening of the PCM or soldering or anything. This is the current market choice I see in the field for everything from VW's to Ford turbo diesels. The data is stored on the existing chip(s) inside the PCM (or on a device that plugs into the OBD port) and encrypited as I understand to make it unreadable. Thus now if one opens a PCM it's all OEM- just different 1s and zeros that the driver can select from (speaking of APR here) via the cruise control stalk/controls. This includes what is called a stock program- a topic of much discussion lately. There is still a choice of installing a chip I believe from APR for some applications. Not sure on that one.

_Modified by slickfisher at 10:19 PM 7-14-2005_


this was back before apr had dpp


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: (slickfisher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slickfisher* »_Andy, I don't understrand your post. APR mainly programs their PCM's via what is called DPP. Direct Port Programming- there is no opening of the PCM or soldering or anything. This is the current market choice I see in the field for everything from VW's to Ford turbo diesels. The data is stored on the existing chip(s) inside the PCM (or on a device that plugs into the OBD port) and encrypited as I understand to make it unreadable. Thus now if one opens a PCM it's all OEM- just different 1s and zeros that the driver can select from (speaking of APR here) via the cruise control stalk/controls. This includes what is called a stock program- a topic of much discussion lately. There is still a choice of installing a chip I believe from APR for some applications. Not sure on that one.

If you go with APR's Stage III or Stage III+ you have to have a chip soldered in... supposedly it has better encryption according to APR. For regular K03, K03S, or K04 software, you can go the Direct Port route. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mujjuman (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Here is a picture of an EVC encryption daughter board. This is similar to the systems used by GIAC/Wetterauer/Autotech:








What you can't see in the picture is the encryption chip underneath the circuit board.

is that an AMD Athlon64?


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: (screwball)*

Hey screwhead, I wasn't even driving a 1.8T back in '02- what the help are you talking about and what the help are you doing?
I didn't join this forum until the fall of '04.








I'm with 'ole Crap on this one, who pulled this from the dungeon?


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: (ruso)*

True ruso.
But since someone is living in the past. A current inspection on 11/10/05 revealed that re-flashing PCMs still has it's dangers in '05 as demonstrated by this '05 Cobra that had its cover removed from the PCM port, the rubberized coating scraped off and a bit too aggressive flash was installed with the obvious results. Note the silly attempt with the white lithium grease.


























_Modified by slickfisher at 1:37 AM 11-12-2005_


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## MeetleBan (Jul 29, 2001)

*Re: What Chiptuners Do (mtiede)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mtiede* »_


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## hadaki (Sep 8, 2004)

This is my ECU with euro Eprom. 193bhp, 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bloody_VWs/photos/recent/350180100/view


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

talk about bringing something back from the dead :facepalm:


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

lol i wonder if Gonzo was even born when this thread was started...


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

10 yr old thread; is a decade old :screwy:


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