# BBM superchargers gone?



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

noticed the superchargers weren't on their website today.
what's up?
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/vw_..._Kits


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Chapel)*

perhaps the numerous failures, pricing, and manufacturing's inability to deliver units.
just a hunch though.


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## :staygold: (Mar 30, 2007)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (TBT-Syncro)*

damn.. maybe the one in my closet for a G60 might be worth a sh it now??


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## Junkyard Hero (Jan 18, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? staygold*


_Quote, originally posted by *:staygold:* »_damn.. maybe the one in my closet for a G60 might be worth a sh it now??









no its not i will be up tomorrow to to clean out said closet


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## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Mat_16V)*

I was just wondering about this... I was going to order one for my new Corrado, my last Lysholm was amazing.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (builtforsin)*

lysholms suck...terrible and bbm didn't stand behind it when there was issues...fail, big time..NEVER again.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (builtforsin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *builtforsin* »_my last Lysholm was amazing.









What part of it?
The fire truck whine?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Wizard-of-OD)*

or the leaking
or the heat
or the boost level they promise and doesn't reach
or the"i got a speck of dust in it and it locked up"
or we stand behind everything- yet they don't help at all
or the over priced "oohh ahh" cool looking paperweight


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_or the leaking
or the heat
or the boost level they promise and doesn't reach
or the"i got a speck of dust in it and it locked up"
or we stand behind everything- yet they don't help at all
or the over priced "oohh ahh" cool looking paperweight 

Why dont you let us know how you really feel Josh?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Wizard-of-OD)*

sorry i can't...gotta hold back a bit.


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## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
What part of it?
The fire truck whine?

Mine was super reliable, I put about 30k on it before I sold the car and it's still kicking around 3 years later.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (builtforsin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *builtforsin* »_
Mine was super reliable, I put about 30k on it before I sold the car and it's still kicking around 3 years later.









Count yourself lucky.Not one to knock BBM as I think they do an excellent service to the industry but I had 2 friends kick there lysohlm to the curb,one is here collecting dust (I use it for my G60 alternator kits)


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

I'll officially do a press release on what is really going on here in the next few weeks.
Just for the record these are not gone due to reliability.
Like any form of forced induction there can be failures.
My best friend just had a brand new Garrett GT28 fail with less than 3k miles not at all over driven and no warranty. Did we go on here and cry, no we bought another unit! I've personally failed just as many turbos as superchargers and ran many more of the latter.
Some people kill them from over driving them and I'd say more than 75% of our customers ran our units *way *past over drive.
1-2% turbos and superchargers fail from manufacturing defects, those that followed our warranty were always covered.
And then you have the few guys with the wasted air filters and or oil starving ect... this is not covered under any warranty. Most turbo manufacturers give a 30 day warranty if any at all. When we had a steady flow our warranty was one full year and yes we did back it up!
We have sold these 2087 kits for ten years now!
Oh and by the way neither of the two can run forever and will eventually fail!
The short story is Opcon is no longer manufacturing the 2087 screw compressor. 
I'll give all of you guys the complete story here shortly.
We have actually only received a small hand full of these 2087's that were left over units over the last two years, yes it has basically been nearly two full years since we have really had these babies.
And we still have literally hundreds out there still running strong!
We might just have something cooking up for 2009 that is much much better











_Modified by JBETZ at 10:55 AM 10-21-2008_


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## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I'll officially do a press release on what is really going 
We might just have something cooking up for 2009 that is much much better










I look forward to it. I'm going to hold off until I find out what you guys are up too.







Thanks for the mini update


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Some people kill them from over driving them and I'd say more than 75% of our customers ran our units *way *past over drive.
warranty was one full year and yes we did back it up!


funny, mine was on a show car for a day and you didn't warrenty it? new EVERYTHING.
i had to rebuild it myself cause you said it was impossible with what i was saying happened.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_
funny, mine was on a show car for a day and you didn't warranty it? new EVERYTHING.
i had to rebuild it myself cause you said it was impossible with what i was saying happened.

Well I really don't recall what your particular situation was at the time. What name was this ordered under, I'll pull up the file? Did you buy it brand new from us or a friend? Did you have an over drive pulley installed? I do know that if you don't send it to us for an inspection we for obvious reasons cant help you with it. Maybe your repair job caused further issues? 
Anyway sounds like you had a bad experience. For every guy that did there are another 100 or more people out there that love them and are having a great experience and would recommend them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by JBETZ at 4:31 PM 10-21-2008_


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

no worries... past is past.
i bought it from you, talked to ryan, then you about leaks and you said it was impossible. had video of it too.
either way i fixed the issue myself and it worked ok...didn't like it much and sold it one month later...not that there was an issues with it after i fixed it but...just wasn't my thing(my opinion there)


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_no worries... past is past.
i bought it from you, talked to ryan, then you about leaks and you said it was impossible. had video of it too.
either way i fixed the issue myself and it worked ok...didn't like it much and sold it one month later...not that there was an issues with it after i fixed it but...just wasn't my thing(my opinion there)

It would have been nice if you had sent it in... like you said the past is the past and that was a very loooong time ago. 
There were more than a few times over the many years when we sold these where we paid the shipping both ways for chargers that had a defective seal or were bad out of the box. Defects typically show up immediately and we were always happy to take care of these few customers.
In fact we just did a g-lader build for a customer. Had a defective seal and we paid the shipping both ways and fixed it for him. Happy customer. 
We have had a few customers when we did everything humanly possible and it was still just not good enough. Just part of the biz, cheers


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## isault (Mar 3, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

Two of my friends own a lysholm rado's, one of them didn't buy it from BBM, he had a leak problem any way BBM fix it for free, both of my friends are happy, and many Kmiles on these sets http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
What part of it?
The fire truck whine?

NO the lack of boost


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
NO the lack of boost


This lack of boost, stock engine, stock ecu 
Sorry 350+whp Honda's
You guys are just trying to get me all fired up...lol








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAOOv606Zvo




_Modified by JBETZ at 4:38 PM 10-21-2008_


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## brilliantyellowg60 (Aug 30, 2001)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

so what happens if we have a failure in the future?
no more replacements available?
the rest of the $2500 kit is junk and we throw it out?
if so i am selling mine while it still works...........


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I'll officially do a press release on what is really going on here in the next few weeks.
We might just have something cooking up for 2009 that is much much better 

Will the press release include what U have cooking and an ETA of availability?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
This lack of boost, stock engine, stock ecu 
Sorry 350+whp Honda's
You guys are just trying to get me all fired up...lol








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAOOv606Zvo

22 PSI huh....
I bet it's not the charger you sell in your kits....or should i say used to sell
and if it is....its a paper weight now









_Modified by JBETZ at 4:38 PM 10-21-2008_


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (brilliantyellowg60)*

I'll hit all three of these questions in one-
If your 2087 unit fails you are correct, there is no replacement unless Opcon suddenly changes their focus. I highly doubt this will happen. Sometimes they can be rebuilt, sometimes not. If you have your unit rebuilt before it fails you can get another life cycle out of it.
Yes, I hope to be able to shed some light on what we are working on here soon.
Yes, the car in the video is running a bone stock engine, ecu and what was our standard BBM G60 Twin Screw 2087 kit. 
I set this bone stock G60 engine up using all of our off the shelf goodies. Ty ran the car down the 1/4 mile track several hundred times. He pulled the complete engine with the supercharger kit and installed it into a street Corrado. This car and charger ran for over 5 years and to my knowledge is still running











_Modified by JBETZ at 9:21 AM 10-22-2008_


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

wieght?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_wieght?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

weight of that car....
suspension?
set up for drag huh?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_weight of that car....
suspension?
set up for drag huh?

This was over eight years ago, old school days.








The car was an absolute blast and very reliable, lots of seat time with no issues.
The car made about 240 whp on 100 octane and spiked to 24-25 psi with a 50mm power pulley on launch, std. crank pulley.
Not sure what it weighed, I'd have to talk to Ty.
Yes, obviously set up for drag.
Pretty sure it had H&R coil overs.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

when are you coming east to race "our" 2.0T daily driver?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_when are you coming east to race "our" 2.0T daily driver?









No plans for this.
We beat the Mk3 2.0T Stage 3 Kinetic kit with our Supercharger kit a couple of years back at the Autoblitzkreig event, identical cars, engines and tires.
I think we beat the turbo set up by nearly a second.
Anyway no plans to drive out to the East coast for this.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

when ever your ready to go...let us know


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_when ever your ready to go...let us know









I'll be sure to do that


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
I'll be sure to do that









I'd be glad to drive over there...if you did not live in the middle of but "F" nowhere....
Some day we will meet...till then....
we wait


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

ooo cross continental cold warzzzz!!


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
I'd be glad to drive over there...if you did not live in the middle of but "F" nowhere....
Some day we will meet...till then....
we wait









So now all West coast states are in BFE... 
Bend is a pretty small town, Portland track is about 2.5 hrs away.
You guys are funny


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## brilliantyellowg60 (Aug 30, 2001)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I'll hit all three of these questions in one-
If your 2087 unit fails you are correct, there is no replacement unless Opcon suddenly changes their focus. I highly doubt this will happen. Sometimes they can be rebuilt, sometimes not. If you have your unit rebuilt before it fails you can get another life cycle out of it.


thats ****ing ****ty
putting mine up for sale now........


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

I'll give you $100


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (brilliantyellowg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brilliantyellowg60* »_
thats ****ing ****ty
putting mine up for sale now........























thats the thing these 2087's have really held a strong market value, very few sell used for under $2k, i have one rebuilt unit and im holding on for full retail at $3k... i will get it and could over and over... there are just no more of these units to sell


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## _a2coupe2a_ (May 14, 2007)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
thats the thing these 2087's have really held a strong market value, very few sell used for under $2k, i have one rebuilt unit and im holding on for full retail at $3k... i will get it and could over and over... there are just no more of these units to sell









wanna buy my whole kit with 0 miles... ill sell it to ya... 2500


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (_a2coupe2a_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_a2coupe2a_* »_
wanna buy my whole kit with 0 miles... ill sell it to ya... 2500

bet i could broker it for you ; )
call me or email me tomorrow [email protected]


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## _a2coupe2a_ (May 14, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I would greatly appreciate it. Im not selling because im scared about it breaking im just no longer going in that direction with the car i bought it for.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (_a2coupe2a_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_a2coupe2a_* »_I would greatly appreciate it. Im not selling because im scared about it breaking im just no longer going in that direction with the car i bought it for. 

not a problem, glad to sell it for you


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*

Do I smell TVS?
If so, and you need a good test platform, holler


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Do I smell TVS?
If so, and you need a good test platform, holler









I don't think we would ever consider doing anything with a roots, not even the tvs... but you never know


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Hmm...
as long as it's a PD blower and not a ****in centrifugal... I'm interested.
here's my guess:
W100AX or W140AX
My question is, if Opcon Autorotor is not making those superchargers anymore, does that mean Lysholm Technologies won't be making theirs as well? Aren't they the same company?
I don't know the capacity for the 2087, but would the Lys 1600AX or 2300AX be comparable? (if they're even available?)
I wonder what Eurosport is going to do with their E36 M3 Supercharger kits.
They use the 1.7L Version of the Opcon Autorotor










_Modified by Chapel at 12:20 PM 10-23-2008_


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_Hmm...
as long as it's a PD blower and not a ****in centrifugal... I'm interested.

Just curious, whats so bad about the centrifugal type chargers?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Rocco R16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocco R16V* »_
Just curious, whats so bad about the centrifugal type chargers?

the lack of power they make anywhere other than when you're almost at redline


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_Hmm...
as long as it's a PD blower and not a ****in centrifugal... I'm interested.
here's my guess:
W100AX or W140AX
My question is, if Opcon Autorotor is not making those superchargers anymore, does that mean Lysholm Technologies won't be making theirs as well? Aren't they the same company?
I don't know the capacity for the 2087, but would the Lys 1600AX or 2300AX be comparable? (if they're even available?)
I wonder what Eurosport is going to do with their E36 M3 Supercharger kits.
They use the 1.7L Version of the Opcon Autorotor









_Modified by Chapel at 12:20 PM 10-23-2008_

im with you on the centrifugal sc's
that's an SR3 Opcon Autorotor unit also no longer available.
not planning to use those older 1980's whipple branded designs either.
just hold your shorts, hope to have some news for you guys soon.












_Modified by JBETZ at 3:10 PM 10-24-2008_


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (Rocco R16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocco R16V* »_Just curious, whats so bad about the centrifugal type chargers?

because if i wanted a turbocharger, i'd buy a turbocharger... I'd rather my waste gasses build boost then parasitic engine loss build it for me...
Of course, I understand why some people do it... packaging for one.
Obviously it's easier to install a centrifugal on a VR6 then a full ass turbo kit... but if there were a PD blower available, I'd love to use it instead (if I had a VR)
So... is Lysholm doing any new designs now that Opcon is out?


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## kenny_blankenship (Feb 19, 2005)

They are coming out with a new generation of blowers, to match eaton's new blowers that they introduced on the ZR-1 Corvette, and I believe the new CTS-v. They did not decide to not make it because of "reliability" issues, they phased it out.
You can expect a fairly efficient positive-displacement blower from the autorotor folks soon


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (kenny_blankenship)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kenny_blankenship* »_They are coming out with a new generation of blowers, to match eaton's new blowers that they introduced on the ZR-1 Corvette, and I believe the new CTS-v. They did not decide to not make it because of "reliability" issues, they phased it out.
You can expect a fairly efficient positive-displacement blower from the autorotor folks soon









sorry this is not at all correct 
ill throw out a brief history tomorrow and what we have experienced over the last ten years.


_Modified by JBETZ at 10:55 PM 10-23-2008_


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Well, I'm trying to find info on this thing:


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_Well, I'm trying to find info on this thing:

Charger or setup? I know it's a Rotrex centrif charger


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

the whole setup
I found it on the Rotrex website, but no info.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*

I'll try to pound out a quick history and time line today and why Opcon has changed their direction. 
I'm just slammed with work at the moment








Thanks guys


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

easy explanation:
because they're douchebags


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## atx-g60 (Mar 3, 2007)

well, thats a bummer. i'm definitely curious to see whats in the works. What am I supposed to do with my silencer now?!? lol.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_easy explanation:
because they're douchebags


















Part 1:
Not very easy but I need to try and keep this semi quick and simple.
I’m just going by memory so I’ll try to be as accurate as I can with the dates and information. There is of course more to this story but this is a good basic run down.
Dealing with these guys has been nothing less than a ten year soap opera!
First off I’ll try to clarify who is who and what is what.
Opcon or the Opcon group holds multiple companies and not just compressor manufacturing companies.
The Opcon group as a hole is a publicly traded company and does many MILLIONS of dollars in sales each year and is BIG. Their relatively new and primary focus is now on renewable energy.
There are three primary compressor manufacturing brands and types of compressors built under the Opcon group, SRM, Lysholm and Autorotor.
SRM is primarily the industrial division, stationary compressors for air supply systems ect… Lysholm operates inside of the SRM building and they used to be the primary supplier to Whipple, he just put his name on them.
Autorotor was originally spawned from guys working at Lysholm. This was originally a separate company and not a part of the Opcon group.
There are two main differences between the Lysholm and Autorotor types of compressors. The Lysholm unit uses the casting process for the main compressor housing. It also only utilized the bearings for thrust control of the main screws or rotors.
The Autorotor design utilizes an extruded aluminum housing and also has spring loading devices to control rotor or screw thrust.
The Lysholm is better suited for lower boost and rpm applications, such as in V8 domestic engine applications. 
When we started our supercharger project to build a screw compressor kit to replace the G60 G-Lader supercharger back in 1997 we chose the Autorotor compressor.
We knew that we wanted to run higher boost with higher rpm and gain the maximum capable performance. Our first batch of (50) G60 Screw Compressor kits went out in 1998 & 1999 Business was good we evolved this kit and continually grew our sales.
In mid 2000 or around 2004 we started having some issues with supply and pricing. This corresponded with the Opcon Group purchasing Autorotor and combining it with SRM and Lysholm. These problems with supply also corresponded with Opcon taking on the Ford GT OEM Supercharger contract. At this same time Whipple “Lysholm” and Kenne Bell “Autorotor” were also having issues. Whipple slapped I believe an $8 million dollar law suite on them, this has since been resolved. During this same time Opcon started shutting down and laying off many people in the Autorotor division and others. They sold off and shuffled key pieces of Autorotor machines that are used in the main manufacturing process for making these compressors. My take is that they were trying to make profits look temporarily higher in order to boost stock prices. We here at BBM being heavily invested in these units took a trip to Sweden in attempts at securing pricing and delivery. This did help for about one year and then more issues surfaced. I’ll try to get back on this story early next week.
to be continued











_Modified by JBETZ at 3:18 PM 10-24-2008_


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## _a2coupe2a_ (May 14, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (_a2coupe2a_)*

No kidding, wait for part 2...lol


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## K2dutch (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (_a2coupe2a_)*

Never got mine installed, too afraid my motor or tranny will go...to the classifieds. Maybe some day I will have money to rebuild a different car and do as I please with BBM products : ).


_Modified by K2dutch at 2:16 PM 11-6-2008_


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## Zorba2.0 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (K2dutch)*

After seeing much of what Eaton has done with their latest screw design, I know 3 engineers there, it will be interesting to see if Lysholm, Optcon, or whoever they are now, has design something new to compete. Especially since an American companies supercharger is on the TSI


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Zorba2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zorba2.0* »_After seeing much of what Eaton has done with their latest screw design, I know 3 engineers there, it will be interesting to see if Lysholm, Optcon, or whoever they are now, has design something new to compete. Especially since an American companies supercharger is on the TSI









From what I understand they are not planning anything new at all for the automotive supercharger business and almost completely shutting this part of the business down. There actions speak louder than words. Kenne Bell now has new guys making his proprietary charger and so does Whipple. These two guys made up for the majority of their business and they are no longer Ocpon customers.
The Eaton TVS is not a screw compessor design.
The TVS is just a new spin on the roots design and is still not nearly as high performing as a twin screw charger.


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

and the 'eaton' Screw compressor in the GT40 is actually a Lysholm charger rebadged
I'm curious to see what you guys do
My guess is either another screwcharger I'm not familiar with or maybe a Rotrex...
Especially because I can't find ANY info on that Rotrex 2.0 kit I posted earlier and the Rotrex guys are mum.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_and the 'eaton' Screw compressor in the GT40 is actually a Lysholm charger rebadged
I'm curious to see what you guys do
My guess is either another screwcharger I'm not familiar with or maybe a Rotrex...
Especially because I can't find ANY info on that Rotrex 2.0 kit I posted earlier and the Rotrex guys are mum.

Seriously the Ford GT Supercar has a screw compressor built by Opcon, joint design effort with Roush. They were going to put this same compressor in the Mustang Cobra. Ford was so burned by multiple delivery issues they lost it. Kenne Bell has an upgrade for the Ford GT Supercar charger, this is no Eaton. 



_Modified by JBETZ at 7:27 PM 10-24-2008_


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

http://www.opcon.se/index.asp?...ID=14

_Quote »_The US is the most important market for Lysholm®, and the company has been chosen by Ford for series supplies of superchargers for the new, highly acclaimed Ford GT sports car, in co-operation with Lysholm®’s partner in the US, *Eaton Corporation.*

I'm just saying the GT40 brochure advertises it as an Eaton screw compressor, even though it's a Lysholm/Opcon product


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*

The key word here is in cooperation. Opcon built it and Roush to my understanding was in the middle of it and part of the design team. When I visited Sweden they were building them...in Sweden. I think there was a time when Lysholm or Opcon or whatever you want to call them were working on a deal with Eaton, or trying to get them to buy technology from them. I'm not really sure what they were attempting. I still have friends over there and regularly get good information. Like I stated above this is a convoluted soap opera!


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

jesus, i'm in the wrong scene..
Kenne Bell Superchargers are ****in mental.








remove stock blower
replace with KB Blower and tuning kit... cut a little notch in the hood support.
801whp 738wtq.
wtf.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*

Yes, very nice... nothing like a twin screw compressor http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Eaton with that claim on the GT Supercharger set up is just some marketing hype. In my opinion they have been trying to beat a poor performance rap... I think Eaton was looking at the Lysholm screw compressor type design and opted for the easier to manufacture and less efficient TVS Roots. I also believe Eaton would love for the public to not know the difference between the two types of compressors and this is also a part of the intended confusion. Just my opinion.


_Modified by JBETZ at 8:15 PM 10-24-2008_


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

well, i love blowers.
Weiand 14-71 FTW


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_well, i love blowers.
Weiand 14-71 FTW









Yes, me 2... always have http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Nice chat in here, it's like going to a therapist, been holding all this in for a very very long time


----------



## cifdig (Jun 4, 2005)

wow I can't see what u guys are gonna replace this with, I work so hard to get my boost high, now that I have I'm nervous it's gonna crap out on me, then I'm screwed. Should we start looking for turbo kits now or can u atleast inform us on what's cooking, even if it doesn't work out. I love this charger and I'll use it till it goes. The only thing I'll replace it with is either a charger super similer to the 2087 or get a gt28 and call it a day.


_Modified by cifdig at 1:22 PM 10-25-2008_


----------



## vdubgti2.0 (Apr 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

i am curious to see what bbm comes out with now, i don't really want to stray away from s/c. I loved driving it everyday my lysholm still turned over. It is a shame they are discontinued now, hopefully something bigger and better comes out


----------



## vdubin_g60 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubgti2.0)*

I just hope there will still be a unsilenced kit







For the next one


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*

I have championed the BBM Screw compressor since 1998. i have
over driven them to there maximum output for years in the pursuit
of maximum performance and have enjoyed great success on the 
street and the strip. i have owned 3 chargers in 10 years and have
installed 5 in others cars. 
I have experienced oil seal failure, ingestion
damage and bearing failure. I fully understand the technology 
involved in forced induction devises and have built driven and raced Turbo 
and Supercharged cars of many configuration. out of all of them the power
curve of the twin screw is the most satisfying of them all.
It is alarming to hear the production of the 2087 is over but i am sure
the investment of in house technology that BBM has made over these years 
will benefit us in the near future. I am confident Johns 
ingenuity will produce a bigger and better solution for us in the VW
old school world.
the last few years of technical advances have made it easier to produce
bigger more reliable horse power then ever before, so maybe the 
next generation of supercharger is due.
I am personally looking for a bigger charger that produces more boost under the curve 
so i no longer have to overdrive my little .8L per rev 2087 charger to get into the 20 psi range. 
today we are seeing engines 
running 25 psi to 35 psi of accurately managed boost levels.

A direct installation onto my current bracketry would be nice with maybe some 
added support for the rear of the charger...
as i do not run a silencer kit.
I have invested alot of money in my current 16v S/C setup which is rare in today's 
market of 2.0T FSI and R32 VR6 setups making big HP.
I told John he should abandon the old G60 platform a few years ago but his love for 
the corrado is great and i am glad he never listens to me.
I look forward to your new product John .



















_Modified by REPOMAN at 11:08 AM 10-27-2008_


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_well, i love blowers.
Weiand 14-71 FTW









You Would...
Most in efficient blower ever....
Good for making Mad intake temps
Perhaps you should go back to naming your Rabbit "Jessica"


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

holy call back.
14-71s are great when they're on a Rat motor running alcohol


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_I have championed the BBM Screw compressor since 1998. i have
over driven them to there maximum output for years in the pursuit
of maximum performance and have enjoyed great success on the 
street and the strip. i have owned 3 chargers in 10 years and have
installed 5 in others cars. 
I have experienced oil seal failure, ingestion
damage and bearing failure. I fully understand the technology 
involved in forced induction devises and have built driven and raced Turbo 
and Supercharged cars of many configuration. out of all of them the power
curve of the twin screw is the most satisfying of them all.
It is alarming to hear the production of the 2087 is over but i am sure
the investment of in house technology that BBM has made over these years 
will benefit us in the near future. I am confident Johns 
ingenuity will produce a bigger and better solution for us in the VW
old school world.
the last few years of technical advances have made it easier to produce
bigger more reliable horse power then ever before, so maybe the 
next generation of supercharger is due.
I am personally looking for a bigger charger that produces more boost under the curve 
so i no longer have to overdrive my little .8L per rev 2087 charger to get into the 20 psi range. 
today we are seeing engines 
running 25 psi to 35 psi of accurately managed boost levels.

A direct installation onto my current bracketry would be nice with maybe some 
added support for the rear of the charger...
as i do not run a silencer kit.
I have invested alot of money in my current 16v S/C setup which is rare in today's 
market of 2.0T FSI and R32 VR6 setups making big HP.
I told John he should abandon the old G60 platform a few years ago but his love for 
the corrado is great and i am glad he never listens to me.
I look forward to your new product John .















_Modified by REPOMAN at 11:08 AM 10-27-2008_

I'm sure it will be a better design There are new technologies made very day...
It can only get better for us...


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_holy call back.
14-71s are great when they're on a Rat motor running alcohol









I will only forgive this due to the fact your young......
That stuff is for old half dead street rod guys...not any one living in the current world....
Just like Carbs
the GMC blower family has no place in the modern world


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
I will only forgive this due to the fact your young......
That stuff is for old half dead street rod guys...not any one living in the current world....
Just like Carbs
the GMC blower family has no place in the modern world









and if you like the Roots design so much ...
Phone up Neuspeed I'm sure they have plenty laying arround


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*

hmmm i have a mk4 with the neuspeed charger....i think upgrading exhaust make your car faster then that upgrade


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_and if you like the Roots design so much ...
Phone up Neuspeed I'm sure they have plenty laying arround









It's not that I like the design so much, it's just I grew up next to a bracket racer who had a 69 Camaro with a Rat 427 and a 14-71 that was REALLY fast (this was back when I was like 10 until I was about 14, so I don't remember all his numbers)
And I just loved when he would fire it up. Everyone in the neighborhood could hear it.
But now, seeing the 2.6L Kenne Bell supercharger (a screw-type) making probably as much as his car did with less displacement and better drivability, I just like to reminisce about the 14-71. It's what made me like the idea of forced induction.
and, I actually wouldn't mind the Neuspeed blower on my daily driver.
I'm not looking to make a ton of power. I just want a little more. The Neuspeed charger is definitely a great packaging and installation setup. Just not very efficient.
I'd love that package with a more efficient supercharger... and maybe an AWIC in the plenum.


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Chapel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Chapel* »_
It's not that I like the design so much, it's just I grew up next to a bracket racer who had a 69 Camaro with a Rat 427 and a 14-71 that was REALLY fast (this was back when I was like 10 until I was about 14, so I don't remember all his numbers)
And I just loved when he would fire it up. Everyone in the neighborhood could hear it.
But now, seeing the 2.6L Kenne Bell supercharger (a screw-type) making probably as much as his car did with less displacement and better drivability, I just like to reminisce about the 14-71. It's what made me like the idea of forced induction.
and, I actually wouldn't mind the Neuspeed blower on my daily driver.
I'm not looking to make a ton of power. I just want a little more. The Neuspeed charger is definitely a great packaging and installation setup. Just not very efficient.
I'd love that package with a more efficient supercharger... and maybe an AWIC in the plenum.

LOL busing your balls...I'm old and don't care about Muscle cars any more..been there done that.......
I'm so old we got time cards....hand written..i have a box full of them at my mom's house some place.....I'll have to scan one for ya all...
My old car............









Maple Grove Raceway..Circa 1983.......
Thats no helmet it's my hair.....








When I had hair


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

nice gasser look going on there.
I figure at some point I'll make the mistake of getting into V8s


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*

Nice old man, I rocked a 70 Camaro back in the day and the mullet...


----------



## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

I had a 71 camaro SS and still regret selling it







, glad i fought the trend and didn't have a mullet








any more history lessons john? superchargers not v8's


----------



## Aali1011 (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Rocco R16V)*

Ok so i read all 3 pgs of that and still have some questions in regards to us actual owner. I could care less if somebody can't get a Lysholm nemore. We are going to have member only jackets now because of this.








Ok so with Autorotor not making the 2087 unit nemore what do we do if the unit fails for "X" reason. Is it pretty much going to be that dependent upon "X" reason will determine whether or not the unit can be fixed or not. 
Ok so prolonging the life of our chargers what can be done. I know the air filter should always be checked and the oil feed should be checked as well. Do we have some type of service schedule that the charger should be on. Like the seals changed at "x" miles or a general cleaning in "x" miles. When do i or should i send my unit for service. I have often contemplated the fact of doing the seafoam treat on my car but don't know how the charger would like it being in the oil and going through the vaccum line. Idk what the seals are made out of what could possibly happen. 
I am really curious about the next step that BBM takes and to be honest slightly upset that i am going to have older hardware. It sucks to say that the only chargers for a ABA are now either VF or Neuspeed. Considering u can't do d!ck with the Neuspeed and not enough people have the VF at least from what i have seen with anything done to it. We join the ranks of the Z Engineering charger.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Aali1011)*

If you have a bearing failure and the screws and or housing do not get damaged we can typically rebuild them. If your unit fails and it is not capable of a rebuild there are no more new units.
If you run a non power pulley 55mm or larger, I would recommend that you have your unit rebuilt every three or maybe four years, there are some variables here. On a well maintained set up a rebuild every 50-70k miles should keep you safe and keep you up and running. We have many customers that have put well over 100k miles on these without any rebuilds. How well you maintain your car change your oil, how hard you drive or race ect. all come into play.
If you are running in over drive there are many variables that can affect the longevity. If you race or run it really hard frequently I would suggest a rebuild every other season...maybe every season depending on how hard the unit is pushed. 
Service and maintaining your compressor here
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/faq/?id=66


_Modified by JBETZ at 12:17 PM 10-29-2008_


----------



## brilliantyellowg60 (Aug 30, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_If you have a bearing failure and the screws and or housing do not get damaged we can typically rebuild them. If your unit fails and it is not capable of a rebuild there are no more new units.
If you run a non power pulley 55mm or larger, I would recommend that you have your unit rebuilt every three or maybe four years, there are some variables here. On a well maintained set up a rebuild every 50-70k miles should keep you safe and keep you up and running. We have many customers that have put well over 100k miles on these without any rebuilds. How well you maintain your car change your oil, how hard you drive or race ect. all come into play.
If you are running in over drive there are many variables that can affect the longevity. If you race or run it really hard frequently I would suggest a rebuild every other season...maybe every season depending on how hard the unit is pushed. 
Service and maintaining your compressor here
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/faq/?id=66


Approximate cost of a rebuild?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (brilliantyellowg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brilliantyellowg60* »_
Approximate cost of a rebuild? 


we do a 100% rebuild, all bearings, seals and the drive for $699


----------



## g60_c (Nov 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_On a well maintained set up a rebuild every 50-70k miles should keep you safe and keep you up and running. We have many customers that have put well over 100k miles on these without any rebuilds. How well you maintain your car change your oil, how hard you drive or race ect. all come into play.
_Modified by JBETZ at 12:17 PM 10-29-2008_

i'm NOT trying to be a dink, or start any sort of argument, but i do have a question... wasn't 60k the "magic number" that the G60 was supposed to be rebuilt @ to the tune of approx $800? i had thought the lysholm setup was intended to be a more "maintenance free", or.. postponed? than the G60? i'm not arguing that it doesn't perform, we all know they do, why else would they sell so darn well? it is certainly more reliable and more bulletproof... i'm just curious.. that's all.
ok, i'll stop stirring up trouble now







i am also joining the ranks of those that are looking forward eagerly to what you come out with next, even if i'll never buy it (i just like making my own crap work too much... even if it's not ideal)
-Nate


----------



## _a2coupe2a_ (May 14, 2007)

*FV-QR*

id say the g-ladder is 100x more reliable and can keep fairly close to the lysholm power wise but its not the same type of power. Honestly if you change seals in a g-ladder every couple years, fix the fire hazards, and change your oil regularly they last a long time...


----------



## vdubin_g60 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

how many can you rebuild/will you guys always carry the parts or shoud i stock up soon?


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubin_g60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubin_g60* »_how many can you rebuild/will you guys always carry the parts or shoud i stock up soon?

we have the parts and should always be able to get them.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (_a2coupe2a_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_a2coupe2a_* »_id say the g-ladder is 100x more reliable and can keep fairly close to the lysholm power wise but its not the same type of power. Honestly if you change seals in a g-ladder every couple years, fix the fire hazards, and change your oil regularly they last a long time...

There was a time not long ago when we were rebuilding 200+ g-laders per year. Sorry to say that the g-lader does not come even close to the reliability of the screw compressor especially when they are both over driven.
The g-lader cant even hold a candle to the screw compressor in performance, not even close.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (g60_c)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g60_c* »_
i'm NOT trying to be a dink, or start any sort of argument, but i do have a question... wasn't 60k the "magic number" that the G60 was supposed to be rebuilt @ to the tune of approx $800? i had thought the lysholm setup was intended to be a more "maintenance free", or.. postponed? than the G60? i'm not arguing that it doesn't perform, we all know they do, why else would they sell so darn well? it is certainly more reliable and more bulletproof... i'm just curious.. that's all.
ok, i'll stop stirring up trouble now







i am also joining the ranks of those that are looking forward eagerly to what you come out with next, even if i'll never buy it (i just like making my own crap work too much... even if it's not ideal)
-Nate

Your not being a dink at all, good question.
There is no magic number or answer only a recommendation for inspection and possible rebuild.
It really depends on the maintenance of the vehicle and how it is driven or boosted. Some people never even boost load these things at all.
You are correct we never recommended rebuilding the screw compressors. Now that they are no longer available it would be nice to save and extend the life of as many as possible. Things are a little different now that they are no longer manufactured. I have had g-laders come in here with 200k miles looking very good, that's how it is when grandmas drive these cars and not in the boost all the time. It just really depends on how they are driven...lots of variables...not a cookie cutter answer at all.


_Modified by JBETZ at 3:15 PM 10-29-2008_


----------



## _a2coupe2a_ (May 14, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
There was a time not long ago when we were rebuilding 200+ g-laders per year. Sorry to say that the g-lader does not come even close to the reliability of the screw compressor especially when they are both over driven.
The g-lader cant even hold a candle to the screw compressor in performance, not even close.









Well far more g60's were sold and far more people abuse g-ladders then lysholms. I think if g laders were aftermarket and people actually had to pay for them out of pocket like they did the lysholms they would treat them a little better. 
As for power im just talking pure numbers. You take a stage 4 g60 on a 1.8 8v and a lysholm on the same engine the numbers would be fairly close. Now actually driving the car is a complete different experience.
Im not trying to say the lysholm is unreliable or that the gladers are more reliable it just seems like if you have a fresh g60 set up and take care of it they can last a very long time. If you compare the mileage and production of the g60 vs the mileage and production numbers of a lysholm it seems like the lysholms have a higher failure rate.. 
But also i guess you dont hear about it every time a gladder fails since its fairly common but you seem when a lysholm fails there is always discussion... 
So in conclusion im just talking in circles and its prob best to ignore me

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view











_Modified by _a2coupe2a_ at 3:52 PM 10-29-2008_


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
There was a time not long ago when we were rebuilding 200+ g-laders per year. Sorry to say that the g-lader does not come even close to the reliability of the screw compressor especially when they are both over driven.
The g-lader cant even hold a candle to the screw compressor in performance, not even close.









and this is from a guy who has been rebuilding G-laders them for longer than I can remember.


----------



## g60_c (Nov 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Your not being a dink at all, good question.
There is no magic number or answer only a recommendation for inspection and possible rebuild.
It really depends on the maintenance of the vehicle and how it is driven or boosted. Some people never even boost load these things at all.
You are correct we never recommended rebuilding the screw compressors. Now that they are no longer available it would be nice to save and extend the life of as many as possible. Things are a little different now that they are no longer manufactured. I have had g-laders come in here with 200k miles looking very good, that's how it is when grandmas drive these cars and not in the boost all the time. It just really depends on how they are driven...lots of variables...not a cookie cutter answer at all.

_Modified by JBETZ at 3:15 PM 10-29-2008_

good call, i certainly can't fault you for wanting to help people keep the things on the road, like i said, it was just a point of curiosity.
here's a







to you & your crew!
-Nate


----------



## Venkman (Jun 24, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (g60_c)*

Come on 2009!!! Can't wait to see what you guys have in store. Hopefully I'll be able to afford a kit this time around


----------



## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Venkman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Venkman* »_Come on 2009!!! Can't wait to see what you guys have in store. Hopefully I'll be able to afford a kit this time around

This... I already started planning... Hopefully it will be compatable with a 16v. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdubin_g60 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (builtforsin)*

well what is it and how much bettter is it. very curious gives us a heads up.


----------



## vwchlng (Jun 13, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubin_g60)*

John let me put this question to you. Would you ever consider some sort of trade-in/ exchange discount for all of us faithful Lysholm owners? As in when you release your new secret in 09, maybe we could work out a deal? 
Might not be possible for to do that but I figured I would ask. I ran one on my old Corrado with an ABA block and PG head. Had a oil seal fail at WW a couple years ago, thankfully you were there. You looked at my set up and had me send it in for a fix. No problem after that until i sold the car. Traci owns that car now, so I think you know what I'm talking about.
I now own the car that you used for the advertising, yes Leo's and yes I am a friend of Repo's. Any way, I love mine, but with my 1.9l set up I think there is much more HP to be had.
Pics for sh!ts and grins. This is how she sits now, Don fell in love with the car all over again, and I have heard rumor of Leo sneaking into my work parking area to weep over her.


----------



## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

We want the rest of the saga


----------



## dubdisease (Jul 25, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (builtforsin)*

I want a members only jacket. I'm going to drive my car like a B**** now and see how long it lasts. love the kit john http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

So whats up man? part 2 coming?
I just found out the new and this is killing me.
Almost done w/ school now so should finally be able to buy at least a few toys and come to find out it's gone!
I'd rather not turbo, if I did go that rout I def. wouldn't buy a kit, just software. BBM serious about another charger? I'd hold out a year, before saying f' it and turbo. (personal choice)


----------



## vdubin_g60 (Apr 20, 2005)

give us an update


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (vdubin_g60)*

I am moving up to the 2.1l per rev soon.

















_Modified by REPOMAN at 3:44 PM 11-13-2008_


----------



## streetsk8r0924 (Jan 11, 2006)

come on lets hear part 2... and as for the new updates for 09 can we expect something for a mk4 2.0 dbw please say yes..... i want something thats gona give me more then a 40 horsepower increase for over $2500


----------



## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (dubdisease)*

Just putting this back up there. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## excreations (Jul 31, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (builtforsin)*

new silencer kit too? Yeah I'm a *****.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (streetsk8r0924)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetsk8r0924* »_come on lets hear part 2... and as for the new updates for 09 can we expect something for a mk4 2.0 dbw please say yes..... i want something thats gona give me more then a 40 horsepower increase for over $2500 

No news, I hope to have a good solid direction good or bad by the end of next week or at the latest the end of this month. We have no plans for the Mk4 platform. In fact we may have no plans for any application, still waiting


----------



## Danno13 (Mar 25, 2004)

Billet displaces for the g-laddy


----------



## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
No news, I hope to have a good solid direction good or bad by the end of next week or at the latest the end of this month. We have no plans for the Mk4 platform. In fact we may have no plans for any application, still waiting









I'm excited.... and worried.


----------



## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_when are you coming east to race "our" 2.0T daily driver?









Offered to meet him half way (at SEMA) last year and he declined. I was gonna put Ethan`s car back together and drive it from Jersey to Vegas just to prove once again... Chargers are JUNK!


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Lloyd Plumtree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_
Offered to meet him half way (at SEMA) last year and he declined. I was gonna put Ethan`s car back together and drive it from Jersey to Vegas just to prove once again... Chargers are JUNK! 

Your certainly entitled to your own opinion and that's all this is.
Lets not forget that the nitro methane cars, quickest in the world run superchargers and NOT turbos... 
so world records get broken by running junk


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Lloyd Plumtree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_
Offered to meet him half way (at SEMA) last year and he declined. I was gonna put Ethan`s car back together and drive it from Jersey to Vegas just to prove once again... Chargers are JUNK! 

A closed mind is an ignorant mind. 
"Chargers are junk " that's why they power the WORLDs FASTEST ACCELERATING CARS.















*Homework Done*
Turbochargers "fail" for a number of reasons including foreign object 
damage, contaminated oil supply, restricted oil supply or issues 
related to the turbo oil drain system and/or the engine breather 
system.
Damage from hot shut down will appear as a lack of lubrication. If you are under full boost, the turbo will be spinning close to 100,000 rpm. If the motor is shut down or stalls under full throttle and high boost, the turbo is still spinning at extremely high speed with no oil pressure. Also shutting down a glowing hot turbo with out allowing time for it to cool down will cause coking (excess carbon deposits) that will block oil supply. 
Approximately 40% of all turbocharger failures are oil-related. Contaminated or dirty oil leads to bearing scratching and scoring which cause excessive bearing wear and premature bearing failure. Another oil-related turbocharger failure is lack of lubrication. As mentioned earlier, the turbo runs at very high speeds. Without full oil pressure to the turbocharger bearings, even a momentary loss of oil pressure can quickly cause overheating and destroy the bearing system. 
Lack of lubrication results not only from low oil pressure, but also from kinks and/or clogs in the oil inlet line. Occasionally, gasket sealant used between the oil inlet hose and the bearing housing seeps and clogs the oil passages. 
Another cause of turbocharger failures is inlet restrictions from plugged air cleaners, collapsing hose connections or undersized air pipes. These restrictions reduce the air supply to the turbo and ultimately to the engine resulting in excessive exhaust temperatures leading to turbine housing cracking and scaling or even turbine wheel failures. 
Inlet restrictions also can produce a vacuum inside the compressor. This can cause over speed conditions in the turbo which can lead to premature bearing failure or even make a compressor wheel burst. This vacuum inside the compressor also can cause oil leakage into the compressor. 
The turbo's oil seals depend upon a positive air pressure inside the compressor and turbine to "push" the oil inside the bearing housing and keep oil from seeping into the outer housings. In an inlet restriction situation, the vacuum wants to "pull" the oil past the oil seals. Prolonged oil leakage into the compressor can lead to oil seal damage and excessive engine smoking. 
Prolonged engine idling also can cause turbocharger oil seal failure, this time on the turbine side. Continued idling causes the turbo to rotate without producing boost. Consequently, a vacuum condition on the turbine side tries to "pull" oil past the turbine-side oil seal and into the turbine housing. 
Over-fueling also can lead to premature turbo failure by producing excessive exhaust temperatures which can cause turbine housing scaling and cracking. As the turbine housing continues to deteriorate from the excessive heat, pieces of the housing can crack off and cause turbine wheel failure. 
Hot engine shutdown also can lead to turbocharger oil leakage by causing the oil to coke up inside the oil drain and forcing the oil out the turbine and compressor seals. A clogged or collapsed oil outlet hose also can cause oil to leak. 
Another common cause of turbo failures is foreign object damage to either the compressor or turbine wheels. A rapidly rotating wheel quickly disintegrates when a foreign body tries to pass through the wheel's blades. This type of turbine wheel damage is the result of pieces of burned or broken valves and combustion cups passing through the exhaust system. Other turbine damage is due to casting flash that may break out of the manifolds and ports. 
Occasionally improperly installed gaskets will allow pieces of the gasket to overhang a port and break off into the exhaust system. Damage caused by nuts and washers that are dropped into the exhaust system is also very frequent. Scuffed and broken pistons often find their way out of the engine and into the turbocharger turbine wheel. 
Compressor wheel breakage also can occur from foreign object material although not as frequently as turbine wheel damage. Sometimes pieces of the air cleaner will break loose and go through the compressor. There also have been instances where hose connections fail and pieces of rubber or wire reinforcing from the hose get into the compressor wheel. Again, carelessness in allowing nuts, bolts, washers, rocks, rags and even screwdrivers to get into the intake systems will cause compressor wheel failures. 
_Modified by REPOMAN at 7:26 PM 11-13-2008_


_Modified by REPOMAN at 7:27 PM 11-13-2008_


----------



## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_
A closed mind is an ignorant mind. 
"Chargers are junk " that's why they power the WORLDs FASTEST ACCELERATING CARS.

















Guess you mean in Top fuel dragsters? Do your homework. Turbo chargers were banned in the early 80s because the cars were becoming too dangerous. 
You may say well look at how fast they are going now. read up on that too. Some of the racing bodies are planning to cut the 1/4 miles (1320ft) down to 1000ft in the 300mph+ cars.


----------



## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Oh yeah JBETZ. I still have that motor sitting around. LMK when you wanna take me up on the offer.... and Im still willing to put a stack up.


----------



## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Lloyd Plumtree)*

Turbos are good for what they are good for... I'll take driveability and insta-torque thanks.


----------



## atx-g60 (Mar 3, 2007)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (Lloyd Plumtree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_
Offered to meet him half way (at SEMA) last year and he declined. I was gonna put Ethan`s car back together and drive it from Jersey to Vegas just to prove once again... Chargers are JUNK! 









uh oh!


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Nothing beats adding external displacement


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Lloyd Plumtree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_Oh yeah JBETZ. I still have that motor sitting around. LMK when you wanna take me up on the offer.... and Im still willing to put a stack up. 

Equal cars, equal tires, equal power train, equal management, you run a turbo and ill run a super.
What are your stakes?
Or go pound on your chest else ware 
Or is that you second from the left on the pic above
And how many times do I have to do this anyway












_Modified by JBETZ at 2:48 PM 11-13-2008_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

YES, it looks like we have another batch of 2087 Supercharger units on the way! Our Supercharger kits are now live on our site and available for purchase.


----------



## atx-g60 (Mar 3, 2007)

oh thank jesus


----------



## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

Yessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*



JBETZ said:


> Equal cars, equal tires, equal power train, equal management, you run a turbo and ill run a super.
> What are your stakes?
> Or go pound on your chest else ware
> Or is that you second from the left on the pic above
> ...


----------



## Busted Fox WaGeN (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: BBM superchargers gone? (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_I'll officially do a press release on what is really going on here in the next few weeks.
Just for the record these are not gone due to reliability.
=

BULL*SH*IT

i've lost 2!!! of these worthless chargers and the last one i sent back you guys had no idea why it failed 11k miles i have spend so much money with you guys and in return i have over $7500 in worthless parts in my garage











_Modified by nater at 6:03 PM 12-4-2008_


----------



## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*FV-QR*

*ANOTHER HAPPY CUSTOMER*


----------



## Busted Fox WaGeN (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Lloyd Plumtree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_*ANOTHER HAPPY CUSTOMER*

oh yeah







haha 
i bought a garret gt35r now my built 2.0 can make some real power , and not lock break down and be out so much money http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif bbm


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

You know lets get this story out in the open and the real truth of this matter. Pretty sure the first one you bought was a second hand unit not purchased from us and god only know what it went through.
You also had a haggered over air filter element installed incorrectly.
*The second one you over-drove the you know what out of.
I have an invoice for a 53mm over drive pulley, suppose you never ran it. *
Plus you were past any warranty oh and not running yours per the warranty guide lines.
What do you think Garret does when you ingest particles or over drive the crap out of there turbo.
Oh wait they only have a 30 day warranty and I've yet to see anyone get a turbo covered under any warranty.
Why don't we start a thread on all the people that have failed Turbo chargers in here. Like people never kill these.
I love hatters, get a life












_Modified by JBETZ at 10:00 PM 11-13-2008_


----------



## Busted Fox WaGeN (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_You know lets get this story out in the open and the real truth of this matter. Pretty sure the first one you bought was a second hand unit not purchased from us and god only know what it went through.
You also had a haggered over air filter element installed incorrectly.
*The second one you over-drove the you know what out of.
I have an invoice for a 50mm over drive pulley, suppose you never ran it. *You also never sent this unit in to us... imagine that.
Plus you were past any warranty oh and not running yours per the warranty guide lines.
What do you think Garret does when you ingest particles or over drive the crap out of there turbo.
Oh wait they only have a 30 day warranty and I've yet to see anyone get a turbo covered under any warranty.
Why don't we start a thread on all the people that have failed Turbo chargers in here. Like people never kill these.
I love hatters, get a life









_Modified by JBETZ at 4:38 PM 11-13-2008_

1st was used 2nd was driven daily never over reved
1st charger - when my buddy dave at CARS inc in va called you about it he said you said it was cause of the oil feed line not having a filter, and the result was from having "trash" in the feed like, so when i bought the 2nd kit i bough the filter with it
2nd charger i got a week before waterfest car sat in my garage for 2 months with a blown 020 imagine that







so i bought a cable shift tranny drove the car till this past may when i went to worthersee, got back pulled it off the road and redid every thing! built new motor and i bought the following from you guys
-ross pistons
-tt dual valve springs
-titanium retainers
-tt cam
never owned a 50mm check your records








and yes i ran the 53 guy who always answers said i'd have no problems with it, and i didnt till it jsut locked up i get home check all the oil lines no trash still flowing fine, i send it in yall say the "rear bearing failed" call me back the next day saying the tech dont know why it just did








why would i inject road debre with a turbo? yeah turbos go bad but when they do your not out $3k+ the turbo will make more power than the bbm
how did i overdrive it? never over reved and ran royal purple and changed the oil every 2k miles, after the 1st you said i need a new air filter i put on a new filter at every oil change i took so good care of this charger and it still failed
and what are per warranty guides?
so bbm=fail http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_ You also never sent this unit in to us... imagine that.


btw it was in your shop 2 weeks ago so you need to check the records







i sent it with the *53*mm pulley on it!


_Modified by Busted Fox WaGeN at 8:14 PM 11-13-2008_


----------



## 91gti_wolfsburg (Mar 15, 2005)

I dont mean to start isht here.
I'll be the first to admit, I have always thought these blowers were gods balls.
But after reading this thread, every owner of one of these blowers is worried about it self-destructing, and not being able to have it replaced, and ending up with an expensive pile of worthless parts.
Up above, you mention that you have an invoice from ben for a 50mm overdrive pulley, which by the nature of your statement, implies that you folks know it will eventually cause the failure of the blower.
I must ask, why would you sell such a product if you know it will cause the twin screw to eventually fail?
I remember talking with you (not specifically, but a sales rep nonetheless) on the phone and I was constantly being told about how indestructible these things are.
I can understand foreign object damage, anything will fail when subjected to crap being sucked into the intake.
And an average-decent turbo, which costs less than 25% of what ONE of these lysholms cost, is totally different than paying out the a_ss_ for something that doesnt last as long and seems to not even come close to being as durable.
I have seen turbos take some abuse, and I have seen lots of sick setups with nothing more than a steel window screen over the inlet to protect the turbo from foreign object ingestion.
I mean, what do you expect? Do you want us to run HEPA filters in our air-boxes to maintain your warranty?
I like superchargers, In fact I am tired of dealing with my complicated exhaust system, and the massive heat issues which come from the turbine housing.
But I wish I heard less negative about the twin screw, and more positive.
They certainly do sound badass, theres a white corrado running around town here that has one, and the hair on the back of my neck stands up every time I hear it.


----------



## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

but, for how long?


----------



## vdubgti2.0 (Apr 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

That is exactly where I am at, I have a nice hunk of worthless metal in my garage now. I am still not happy about it at all by the way betz how much is just a blower by itself


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubgti2.0)*

I'll post again to this after dinner.
Funny how things get taken way out of proportions on these forums. Just let me feed my kid and get some fuel in the old body and I'll post. Believe me there is still a very solid market for our Superchargers
Some of you have read some of the facts I've posted in the past I'll post them again tonight.


----------



## Busted Fox WaGeN (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

my hole issue is this...
my 2nd charger was bought brand new full kit, everything on the car performance wise except the header came from yall and it fails and its my fault? you say i drove it too hard or i did stuff not par to the warranty, i beat on it live everyone would with a blown aba, it spins tires for days and pulled great im not going to baby it, but i DID NOT abuse the car
like stated above if you make pulleys that cause failure why not let people know?
im freaking 20 years old i work my balls off to build my cars and when im out alot on parts it hits hard
and when i mail it back it cant be fixed you dont know why if failed? that jsut throws me off, earlier you stated the rocco was from 8yrs ago so min of 8 years experiance with these chargers i'd think bu then you'd know what caused failure...


----------



## vwishndaetr (Aug 8, 2006)

Wow. I was a fan of these. Scary. . . .


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubgti2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubgti2.0* »_That is exactly where I am at, I have a nice hunk of worthless metal in my garage now. I am still not happy about it at all by the way betz how much is just a blower by itself

I'm not sure what you mean here, can you clarify please?


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## 91gti_wolfsburg (Mar 15, 2005)

^^I understand the above (from the previous page) perfectly.
EDIT, page 5 own.
He has one of your kits that has failed, and wants to know how much it will cost him for the bare blower, no inlet or outlet flanges included.


----------



## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*

Hope to hear something positive, I understand you've gotta take some stuff w/ a grain of salt (esp. from Busted Fox WaGeN, only cause you sound like you've got a personal vendetta) but if/when a charger fails, it sounds like it's gone and turbo, repair is gonna cost alot less. 
Biggest super charger road block from my purchase is if it fails am I gonna be stuck with a box of crap? By all means I am willing to take responsibility for misuse. More than willing to lay out some extra bread to make it last if that's what it takes you know.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Busted Fox WaGeN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Busted Fox WaGeN* »_
1st was used 2nd was driven daily never over reved
1st charger - when my buddy dave at CARS inc in va called you about it he said you said it was cause of the oil feed line not having a filter, and the result was from having "trash" in the feed like, so when i bought the 2nd kit i bough the filter with it
2nd charger i got a week before waterfest car sat in my garage for 2 months with a blown 020 imagine that







so i bought a cable shift tranny drove the car till this past may when i went to worthersee, got back pulled it off the road and redid every thing! built new motor and i bought the following from you guys
-ross pistons
-tt dual valve springs
-titanium retainers
-tt cam
never owned a 50mm check your records








and yes i ran the 53 guy who always answers said i'd have no problems with it, and i didnt till it jsut locked up i get home check all the oil lines no trash still flowing fine, i send it in yall say the "rear bearing failed" call me back the next day saying the tech dont know why it just did








why would i inject road debre with a turbo? yeah turbos go bad but when they do your not out $3k+ the turbo will make more power than the bbm
how did i overdrive it? never over reved and ran royal purple and changed the oil every 2k miles, after the 1st you said i need a new air filter i put on a new filter at every oil change i took so good care of this charger and it still failed
and what are per warranty guides?
so bbm=fail http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

btw it was in your shop 2 weeks ago so you need to check the records







i sent it with the *53*mm pulley on it!

_Modified by Busted Fox WaGeN at 8:14 PM 11-13-2008_

Ok, first reply... you guys are going to keep me busy here tonight.
The first charger that you bought used from a buddy was very old, we have been running the filtered oil feed lines for over seven years now. It was also most likely over driven. The air filter was absolutly trashed and also mounted incorrectly. Very bad for super or turbo. NO you do not need a hepa filter for these. You just need to maintain the filter as in any other application and mount it correctly, imaine that








If you read our warranty and actually registered it you would know that a 53MM is not covered under any warranty and will over drive the unit.
No sales guys at my shop will tell you otherwise. Another post on the way.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (91gti_wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *91gti_wolfsburg* »_^^I understand the above (from the previous page) perfectly.
EDIT, page 5 own.
He has one of your kits that has failed, and wants to know how much it will cost him for the bare blower, no inlet or outlet flanges included.


Yes, we have been selling these for over ten years now. We have had very limited supply for two years now. You guys are going to see people with broken compressors from normal attrition, just like the turbos...they do not run forever. Unfortunately there are no bare units available from us at this time.


_Modified by JBETZ at 6:34 PM 11-13-2008_


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## _a2coupe2a_ (May 14, 2007)

*FV-QR*

well... i dont know about that. When i was looking into different pulleys i actually called you guys and the person i talked to actually recommended the 53mm pulley to me and said that the charger would handle it fine... 
Im not trying to play devils advocate or anything but maybe you should talk to the guys in the shop and make sure they arent giving out false info..


----------



## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

JBETZ props to you for staying in this.
Your taking on some serious questions.
Really, have lots of respect for taking them on.
Few company's are as available, and willing to
stand in the fire.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (91gti_wolfsburg)*

Ok, the first thing I want to say is that we BBM and myself have been in the forced induction market for some time now over ten years and I have seen allot of situations. We are successful by selling excellent and reliable products with great customer service. Have we had some un-happy customers...of course, you cant please then all. I will say that this is a very tough business because of crap like this. When you post like you did above that clearly are failures from your ignorance you definitely damage a very well know and ethical American automotive parts sales and manufacturing company. If this is what you are trying to do walla, you have done it. Many people skim these threads and just see your pictures and dont read the facts. So yes you have hurt me, my company the employees our profits extra, thanks for that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now the facts, we have rebuilt and sold over 2000 g-laders and nearly 800 screw compressor kit sales. The numbers dont lie, failures from manufacturing defects are about 1-2% pending on the year. Failures from people such as yourself that do not want to take responsibility for the abuse of the product they bought is about another 1-2% And I am telling the GODS TRUTH here. I can count on my right hand how many people in ten years have posted blatant crap failures that they should be responsible for in here. I dont even know what to say. Thanks for killing our sales http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm already stressed out to the max, we have to lay off two guys next week. It really sucks, the economy sucks and the last two years have been brutal. I have bleed and sweat for my company, my customers, the VW market, my guys and they have also. I have always been honest and worked very hard and so have my guys. It is really sad to me when guys gang up on our Supercharger product and you almost never see this with the turbos that have identical reliability. You say why do you sell an over drive pulley when it takes the product out of warranty. Give me a break. Why does BMW have launch control and when you use it over six times your warranty is void







Take some responsibility if you decide to over drive a turbo or supercharger. I just want to thank you guys for gang banging on my company and making things even tougher for us in this economic climate. I'm not going anywhere or is BBM or our superchargers so bang away guys!
Our charger have been and always will be a reliable high performance alternative to the turbo. And we might even beat you at the track.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (_a2coupe2a_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_a2coupe2a_* »_well... i don't know about that. When i was looking into different pulleys i actually called you guys and the person i talked to actually recommended the 53mm pulley to me and said that the charger would handle it fine... 
Im not trying to play devils advocate or anything but maybe you should talk to the guys in the shop and make sure they aren't giving out false info..

Well maybe you should read the warranty then. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Many people run them with no problems... customers gamble... same with when you over boost a turbo or run a power pulley on one of our rebuilt g-laders. 
You know what "edit" I will put a note under every screw compressor pulley just like we do with the g-lader to make it clear for people that do not read our warranty and like to claim ignorance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Go check it out right now all of our g-lader over drive pulleys have this note.



_Modified by JBETZ at 7:04 PM 11-13-2008_


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (ghoastoflyle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ghoastoflyle* »_ JBETZ props to you for staying in this.
Your taking on some serious questions.
Really, have lots of respect for taking them on.
Few company's are as available, and willing to
stand in the fire.

Thanks what a crazy couple of years this has been. Divorce, car accident that nearly killed me. My insurance company screwed me over and I'm stuck with the bill and then supply issues with our superchargers, housing market crash banking crash, flames on the Vortex... God bless America


----------



## atxtj (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

So if I have a locked up charger, I have to buy a complete kit? If I already have everything (including silencer kit), why do I need to purchase it again?







I'm glad you got more chargers in, and I think you are handling this admirably, but I may not have that kind of cash.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (atxtj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atxtj* »_So if I have a locked up charger, I have to buy a complete kit? If I already have everything (including silencer kit), why do I need to purchase it again?







I'm glad you got more chargers in, and I think you are handling this admirably, but I may not have that kind of cash.









Have you sent it to us for inspection?
Maybe you just lost a bearing and we can rebuilt it for you?


----------



## atxtj (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Have you sent it to us for inspection?
Maybe you just lost a bearing and we can rebuilt it for you?

It was bought by the previous owner, and had major internal scoring. I'm not blaming you guys for the defect! I just can't afford a complete kit.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (atxtj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atxtj* »_
It was bought by the previous owner, and had major internal scoring. I'm not blaming you guys for the defect! I just can't afford a complete kit.























Ok so you bought a second hand used unit from someone and it finally let go.
At this time no, we have no extra bare units. 
This may change, I'll keep ya posted.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Lloyd Plumtree)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lloyd Plumtree* »_


JBETZ said:


> Equal cars, equal tires, equal power train, equal management, you run a turbo and ill run a super.
> What are your stakes?
> Or go pound on your chest else ware
> Or is that you second from the left on the pic above
> ...






JBETZ said:


> Oh boy $1k god lets meet and race, that makes it all worth it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
> Go back to pounding on your chest mate
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Busted Fox WaGeN (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Ok, first reply... you guys are going to keep me busy here tonight.
The first charger that you bought used from a buddy was very old, we have been running the filtered oil feed lines for over seven years now. It was also most likely over driven. The air filter was absolutly trashed and also mounted incorrectly. Very bad for super or turbo. NO you do not need a hepa filter for these. You just need to maintain the filter as in any other application and mount it correctly, imaine that








If you read our warranty and actually registered it you would know that a 53MM is not covered under any warranty and will over drive the unit.
No sales guys at my shop will tell you otherwise. Another post on the way.









ok off the first charger and to the first one i was reccomended by your shop also for the 53 i specifically asked if it was safe and if it woudl cause any harm and i was answered NO!
and i did send the warranty card i even called to ask where to get the serial #
so your saying somewehre in smal print hidden from everyone the 53mm is actually bad but you wont state that on your sight or tell the sales guys to say that before you sell it?
im sorry if i hurt your sales but when i send it back with the 53m pulley on it and i get a call from the sales guy saying its "toast" and cant be rebuilt, i asked what was wrong he said "not sure tech just sent up a note saying it could not be rebuilt" he said he'll call me back with more info..
the next day he calls me saying the rear bearing failed, i asked how that happens what could cause it? and again "i dont know"
so john what caused my 2nd charger to fail? that is all i want to know? if it was the pulley say so!!!!! cause the motor never! went over 6500rpm (hardly hit that, just in 1st under heavey wheel spin ocassionaly) 
for the past 2 year i have dont nothing but support you guys bought so much from you directly, but when you cant even explain how the rear bearing fails and tell me my $3000 charger is just junk now?


----------



## atxtj (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Ok so you bought a second hand used unit from someone and it finally let go.
At this time no, we have no extra bare units. 
This may change, I'll keep ya posted.









I see, thanks.


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Busted Fox WaGeN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Busted Fox WaGeN* »_
and i did send the warranty card i even called to ask where to get the serial #


So you did sign and send in the warranty registration.
So when you signed it, right above where you signed and there is no fine print. 
It states that you have read and agree to the warranty terms.
It also states that if you remove the pulley for any reason the warranty is void. 
And how do you get off blaming that seven year old used over driven blower failure on us.








So this crap about my sales guy supposedly said... no way did any of my guys say that you will have a warranty with an over drive pulley installed...absolutely NO WAY, NO HOW!
Just for you we will put a note on our all of our over drive screw compressor pulleys that they void the warranty. 
The next guy will say he did not read this and it is still our fault http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I can tell you why your charger failed a bearing, you over-drove it out of warranty... and beyond the engineered limits of the compressor.




_Modified by JBETZ at 8:40 PM 11-13-2008_


----------



## 91gti_wolfsburg (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Ok, the first thing I want to say is that we BBM and myself have been in the forced induction market for some time now over ten years and I have seen allot of situations. We are successful by selling excellent and reliable products with great customer service. Have we had some un-happy customers...of course, you cant please then all. I will say that this is a very tough business because of crap like this. When you post like you did above that clearly are failures from your ignorance you definitely damage a very well know and ethical American automotive parts sales and manufacturing company. If this is what you are trying to do walla, you have done it. Many people skim these threads and just see your pictures and dont read the facts. So yes you have hurt me, my company the employees our profits extra, thanks for that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now the facts, we have rebuilt and sold over 2000 g-laders and nearly 800 screw compressor kit sales. The numbers dont lie, failures from manufacturing defects are about 1-2% pending on the year. Failures from people such as yourself that do not want to take responsibility for the abuse of the product they bought is about another 1-2% And I am telling the GODS TRUTH here. I can count on my right hand how many people in ten years have posted blatant crap failures that they should be responsible for in here. I dont even know what to say. Thanks for killing our sales http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm already stressed out to the max, we have to lay off two guys next week. It really sucks, the economy sucks and the last two years have been brutal. I have bleed and sweat for my company, my customers, the VW market, my guys and they have also. I have always been honest and worked very hard and so have my guys. It is really sad to me when guys gang up on our Supercharger product and you almost never see this with the turbos that have identical reliability. You say why do you sell an over drive pulley when it takes the product out of warranty. Give me a break. Why does BMW have launch control and when you use it over six times your warranty is void







Take some responsibility if you decide to over drive a turbo or supercharger. I just want to thank you guys for gang banging on my company and making things even tougher for us in this economic climate. I'm not going anywhere or is BBM or our superchargers so bang away guys!
Our charger have been and always will be a reliable high performance alternative to the turbo. And we might even beat you at the track.










I'm not saying that you guys have a shoddy product, but when someone has almost $6000 in junk compressors sitting in his garage and after his brand new one ishts the bed all you guys can say is *"iunno."*
http://www.urbandictionary.com...iunno
I can see why busted fox is pissed, and I would be too.
Frankly, I think you guys need to get over yourselves. 
You either need to develop a better product, or develop a better warranty.
If indeed, all you have is a failure rate equivalent to that of the factory G-Ladder, congratulations.
But truth be told, I would expect a modicum of an assurance that my (if I had one) twin screw which costs 2x as much as the factory G-Ladder would have at least a 2x better success rate.
And also, I dont want to hear about how a company who charges on average $3000 for a S/C kit is struggling to survive, and how your sales are being impacted by our little interweb forum. I think that is a cheap tactic that you guys are using to draw attention away from the issue at hand.

EDIT- The economy sucks for all of us, not just you.

_Modified by 91gti_wolfsburg at 8:44 PM 11-13-2008_


_Modified by 91gti_wolfsburg at 8:44 PM 11-13-2008_


----------



## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (91gti_wolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *91gti_wolfsburg* »_
I'm not saying that you guys have a shoddy product, but when someone has almost $6000 in junk compressors sitting in his garage and after his brand new one ishts the bed all you guys can say is *"iunno."*
http://www.urbandictionary.com...iunno
I can see why busted fox is pissed, and I would be too.
Frankly, I think you guys need to get over yourselves. 
You either need to develop a better product, or develop a better warranty.
If indeed, all you have is a failure rate equivalent to that of the factory G-Ladder, congratulations.
But truth be told, I would expect a modicum of an assurance that my (if I had one) twin screw which costs 2x as much as the factory G-Ladder would have at least a 2x better success rate.
And also, I dont want to hear about how a company who charges on average $3000 for a S/C kit is struggling to survive, and how your sales are being impacted by our little interweb forum. I think that is a cheap tactic that you guys are using to draw attention away from the issue at hand.


Your a bit off here in my opinion.
So should we just have no warranty or guidelines on a $3k Supercharger kit and give them away when people beat the piss out of them and run ragged f'ed up filters improperly mounted.. NOT
Oh and how about an indefinate warranty...goes on forever!
The second charger was not brand new and also past warranty.
A new g-lader cost $3000+ or about the same as our SC kits.
The first one did its job and ran for years and I'm and I doubt he paid $3k
The second one he chose to over drive and not abide by the warranty. Sorry same deal with a turbo or any other supercharger on the market today... that's a fact. 
Our sales from the Vortex are 25+% of our business my friend and we have lost $600,000 over the last two year in sales due to supply. This was our bread and butter product. Thats alot of fun tickets








We are fine as a business but it has been very tough the last two years.
Can you build and product that people will not run out of guidelines...NOT
I've had a few turbos fail and a few superchargers. They were all over driven. Was I "P" off you bet. Did I post on the internet about KKK or Garrett and how they should have a turbo that will run forever overdrive... nope.
Lets talk about the few people that had failures under warranty. Are they in here, nope they have nothing to say, because we replaced their units... God imagine that customers that abide by the warranty and we replaced them. Oh and lets not forget the 30 day warranty you get with most all aftermarket turbo manufactures. 
I can still see why he is pi$$ed, do I agree that him damaging our reputation is the way to feeling better about it.... NO WAY
When I ran a daily driven 1.8T I would eat about one K04 per year. Dam KKK those guys should really do somthing about this!
Oh and I know the economy sucks for all of us.
I have a saying when times get tough so do our customers. We have been really going the extra mile on our customer support. We always have but now that things are even tougher we are really stepping up. We also have the best guys on staff that we have ever had, absolutley the very best and I love our crew!
How would you like us to get over ourselves here... would you rather I just sit back and watch the flames here.
I just did 30 minutes on the tread mill, ah much better now

















_Modified by JBETZ at 9:08 PM 11-13-2008_


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## bossmk2 (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Hey John, while you're on the net can I get you to PM me your email address? PM's are disabled and I've had two failed attempts of getting ahold of you using the address listed on the BBM site.

Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (bossmk2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bossmk2* »_Hey John, while you're on the net can I get you to PM me your email address? PM's are disabled and I've had two failed attempts of getting ahold of you using the address listed on the BBM site.

Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

oh man, I've been doing all the emails... sometimes with all the spam these days it's not as reliable. hit me up at [email protected]
thanks


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

Hey guys I just wanted to say that if I seem overly disrespectful and defensive about this topic I apologize. 
This has been a tough topic for me and the business. So anyway, sorry if I've come off like a complete a$$.
Thanks for your understanding


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## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I always thought it was common knowledge that smaller pulleys = shorter charger lifespan.







That said I run a 68 on my gladder and I ran the stock pulley on my old BBM unit.


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## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (builtforsin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *builtforsin* »_I always thought it was common knowledge that smaller pulleys = shorter charger lifespan.









I thought it was too. Unless of course you don't know, blow up your charger, and blame the company that sold it to you.
Jesus Christ people, take some damn responsibility for your actions. 
I commend JBETZ for sticking around here and dealing with the tough questions. Any company that didn't give a f*ck about their customers or the community, or their product would of left this thread along time ago.


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## vdubin_g60 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Hey guys I just wanted to say that if I seem overly disrespectful and defensive about this topic I apologize. 
This has been a tough topic for me and the business. So anyway, sorry if I've come off like a complete a$$.
Thanks for your understanding










i dont think you can explain it any better than you have. When i got my bbm lysholm I never even bothered to get the warranty since i knew i was gonna put it in myself and beat on it.
Even before i got mine, i heard that some went bad and still had to get one. nobody is making people buy the lysholms. it seems like people want to take advantage that we have such a great company on vortex.
If they are so much money, then you would think people would take better care of them? what tolerances are inside?







but how many of you guys ever heard of a gladder going bad? same cost if they are both new and one has better response 


_Modified by vdubin_g60 at 7:52 PM 11-25-2008_


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## fishecuss (Oct 17, 2004)

Well well







lve been watching this thread for awhile and thought nows the time to put my 1 pence in.
John if your backed into a corner you come out fighting http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif which is what you have done.
Now to the business at hand..here in lovely england l have to guys running the bbm units with 50mm pullies as standard ones in the first polo g40 with a lysholm on and the second is in a rallye kicking out 272bhp, now these cars are driven daily and ragged in a not so gentlemanly manner ones 3yrs old the other near on 5.
They have not failed and because l trusted and respect bbm and john the warranty card wasnt even filled out.So to come to a public forum and try and discredit a company is out of order and l can say you ragged that motor regular for the charger to fail and l even reckon you didnt even install it proper being only 20 l think you may suffer from a bit of premature ejac


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## K2dutch (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: (fishecuss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fishecuss* »_Well well







lve been watching this thread for awhile and thought nows the time to put my 1 pence in.
John if your backed into a corner you come out fighting http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif which is what you have done.
Now to the business at hand..here in lovely england l have to guys running the bbm units with 50mm pullies as standard ones in the first polo g40 with a lysholm on and the second is in a rallye kicking out 272bhp, now these cars are driven daily and ragged in a not so gentlemanly manner ones 3yrs old the other near on 5.
They have not failed and because l trusted and respect bbm and john the warranty card wasnt even filled out.So to come to a public forum and try and discredit a company is out of order and l can say you ragged that motor regular for the charger to fail and l even reckon you didnt even install it proper being only 20 l think you may suffer from a bit of premature ejac









HA! 
Props to fishecussfor that ^ and John for staying in this







. 
I have a kit I have not installed because I am afraid that my car wouldn't take it but I would not think twice about adding it if I felt better about the mileage on my 2L...in fact I still most likely will if I cannot sell it once I get everything taken care of.
I know a guy running a second hand charger who has never had any problems with it and has always been happy with it so that definitely tells me that if it is taken care of right, that it will last as long as an s/c can.
I think BBM does vw enthusiasts a great service and I would definitely buy again.



_Modified by K2dutch at 5:37 PM 11-14-2008_


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## vdubgti2.0 (Apr 4, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I was trying to discredit BBM at all in any way, I am just still a little salty about my whole situation. I had to save a ton of money to be able to afford the kit and now it is all just useless. It kinda just pisses me off to put it into a simple phrase. I wish there was something I could do with it or use in its place. I never got a warranty car with my kit. When I called to get my chip and an idler pulley warrantied my name and info was not on file? I wish now I would have dumped $4k+ on a VR setup and just listened to my friend in the first place. Hind sight is 20/20. It sucks but you have to take it as they come and roll with the punches. Now I can just look at my blown up BBM unit that was oh so fun when it worked properly. What can ya do?


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## Busted Fox WaGeN (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: (fishecuss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fishecuss* »_ l even reckon you didnt even install it proper being only 20 l think you may suffer from a bit of premature ejac









*highly* doubtful sir, when i was 15 years old my dad walked me through building my first engine, its not like me slapped it together either he tought me about bearing clearances how to plasticgauge and check them, how to set piston rig gaps to spec , i do not half ass anything i own, every car i won has a build from scratch motor, and the *ONLY* car that had issues was the one with the bbm charger, i just built the motor in it, and it just fine, but again the problem was the charger, i have a 12sec 73 duster daily driven that i built the motor in i beat the piss out the car everythime it hits the track and not 1 issue, my jetta td has 300k miles on it and i put a garret t3 on it and 23psi and no problems, so in all my cars that i have built, the problem leads back to my harlequin that had the bbm charger, and when i support and buy all the stuff from bbm and when it fails i send it back to see if it could be repaired and the tech tells me no and he is not sure why it failed, so when i get up here with the info i got from a tech and bbm, and find out that a 53mm pulley is bad for them and will cause failure, why coudltn the tech tell me that







or is the smaller pulley jsut johns excuse to ******* off?
i buy a kit that quoted as reliable and high quality, i maintain it and never over rev the car and it fails yes im going to be upset, but when a company just blows me off with some BS response they dont know why it failed, is why im up here posting and giving him a hard time
so the crap about me being young and not knowing what im doing is completly wrong 
cheers london http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Busted Fox WaGeN (Jun 25, 2008)

*Re: (Busted Fox WaGeN)*

and yes i do know my charger was out of warranty i sent it in to be repaired and was willing to pay whatever it took to fix it, my hole issue is how short of a life it had and how i got the i dont know response, if its a known issue that the smaller pulleys cause failure whey didnt the tech just say so? in that case i would of said ok and probably never posted up here


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## fishecuss (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubgti2.0)*

l can see where your coming from and yes l would be pissed to but look at this imagine spending about 15k on an engine then having to sell it for peanuts due to losing your job







l did 
Or it could have been a bad one which happens on anything you buy and the problem here is we can all say we fitted it right drove in a gentlemanly manner etc etc but can we prove this yes and no.
l love to rag my motors as thats why l build them to go hunting for bimmers etc but the trouble you find out there is when its good its good and when it turns sore the whole world knows and to me thats not what vortex is about.
lf you feel that bad take legal advice


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## cifdig (Jun 4, 2005)

I can't talk for everyone but I personally like u guys at bbm, always helpfull, and I went threw 2 rebuilds and a new unit, and yet I still don't blame u guys. **** happens it's not like u guys personally manufacture these things. I blamed myself when my charger went because I put a smaller pulley on and I was warned that it coud fail. U guys never lied to me u always told me the possible out come. That's like if u smoke ciggartes and get mad when u get cancer.


_Modified by cifdig at 6:15 PM 11-19-2008_


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## Aali1011 (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (K2dutch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *K2dutch* »_

I know a guy running a second hand charger who has never had any problems with it and has always been happy with it so that definitely tells me that if it is taken care of right, that it will last as long as an s/c can.
_Modified by K2dutch at 5:37 PM 11-14-2008_

*Raises Hand* I am actually the person that he is referring to. Bought my charger 2nd hand from coworker and been living relatively trouble free with it. Only problems that I have are the tune that I am on i believe it is old and the charger for some reason likes to eat the vacuum plug on the upper manifold every so ofter. Besides that no issues. On the day to day it is fine. The tune might be because my 02 sensors are about to sh!t the bed i believe. The Vacuum plugs i honestly don't know i might just be buying crappy plugs that break.Taken care of the unit and always done oil changes every 3k with also checking the screen. Got a ECS magnetic drain plug too that picks up some debris too.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (K2dutch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *K2dutch* »_
I know a guy running a second hand charger who has never had any problems with it and has always been happy with it so that definitely tells me that if it is taken care of right, that it MAY last as long as an s/c can.


edit for accuracy. there is a HUGE difference between WILL and MAY.


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## yip (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

Crossing my fingers for a 20v lysholm kit!
What's the possibility of a kit like this John?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (yip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yip* »_Crossing my fingers for a 20v lysholm kit!
What's the possibility of a kit like this John?

Sorry very unlikely that this will ever come from us.
There is just not enough market to cover the costs of the development and there are also to many turbo options.


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Hey John, I just sent an email to your support department about something I bought... sorry to threadjack. Just wanted a quick response if possible
Thanks


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## yip (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Sorry very unlikely that this will ever come from us.
There is just not enough market to cover the costs of the development and there are also to many turbo options.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*FV-QR*

Guys,
Just a friendly reminder to keep this discussion level-headed and on topic. So far you have, but I just want to make sure we can keep the mature discussion going. 
If any flaming, name-calling, etc take place I'll have to lock it. 
Thanks for understanding.


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## DeezUU (Oct 11, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
The first charger that you bought used from a buddy was very old, we have been running the filtered oil feed lines for over seven years now. It was also most likely over driven. The air filter was absolutly trashed and also mounted incorrectly... 


:brakes:*SCREEEEEEEECH!!!*:/brakes:
You're quick to assume there!! The 1st kit Ben bought was MY old kit (purchased about 3-4 years ago, not 7), I spent the better part of a full weekend installing the kit TO THE T with all parts provided used in their correct manner. I never ran a smaller pulley. I never drove the car hard (never had the chance to! more on that in a sec), and the car ran flawless and was in tip-top shape BEFORE the install. I had a low miles GL that was well maintained and had ZERO codes prior to the install. I know adding boost will bring out the demons, but I never knew it would open the gates of HELL upon my car. 
Why did I never drive it hard?? Never got the chance to!! I had the kit installed for a year before selling the car (in which the new owner quickly gave up and sold the kit to Ben after purchase). When I 1st installed the kit, it would go limp at 3500rpm under hard accel. After a few convos online with you, I decided to try a VR MAF. Nah... did nothing other than cost me 60bucks. After many dyno sessions and head scratching rounds, me and a few VW cert techs (incl a G60 specialist) as well as some pretty sharp forced ind. gurus could only lay blame on the management. Although I never got around to going stand-alone, it wouldn't have made much difference. The 2nd owner (the guy that bought my car) took the charger off and advised me that the port for the diverted on the charger wasn't milled all the way through. That surprised me as I figured the charger would have blown up far earlier due to there being nowhere for the pressure to go!? Anyway... when driving the car any distances (2hours +), the A/F would go lean 'off the meter' and I would have to stop, pull the batt cable, and let the car cool off. (and yes, I replaced the O2). Near the end (before the sale), I would see boost spikes around 12psi (and I'm talking spike to fall on it's face), but I never saw a consistant pressure at any time. 
As for the filter problem (bent filter spewing particles into the charger), is there some sort of mesh inside the filter?? I can't see a few paper specks destroying a metal bladed machine!? If there is some sort of metal mesh inside the filter, I guess I could see that but wouldn't that be a poor choice of a filter if so? Ben was using my stock filter so it wasn't like he was running an APC filter made for a Honda or something. 
All in all, it was an absolute nightmare for me personally and the only response I got was "too bad you're not closer so I could look at the car myself". I'm not laying all blame on the kit as like I said before... running boost can bring out some demons! but hell... it ran better/faster WITHOUT the s/c!! Lol. 
But regardless.... good luck with whatever you have lined up. Hopefully it won't be a terd like my lysholm was. 
_(edit: I lied... I had the stage 1.5 pulley near the end)_


_Modified by DeezUU at 9:35 PM 12-1-2008_


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (DeezUU)*

You are correct, you purchased your unit exactly 4 years ago.
Yes, when the wire mesh gets broken down with the filter flopping around in the engine bay it will send wire particles into the charger.
I've seen bad air filters before, this one was one of the worst.
There are many reasons why a car will not run correctly under boost.
Very hard to diagnose sometimes. Boost can bring out the gremlins if a car has any underlying issues. So should we get slammed for a four year old charger that was ran with a completely haggard over air filter ingesting metal wire particles and long past warranty.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DeezUU (Oct 11, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I understand all that. Not laying blame on anyone for anything what-so-ever. I just don't get why there would be metal mesh inside of a paper cone filter if it would cause possible meltdown it the fibers would break. There are plenty of non-mesh filters on the market that might be a better choice. I remember seeing the so-called 'haggard over' filter and to me it looked like a small dent due to the tight fitment of the filter having to be jammed between the battery and the headlight (which is no easy feat if you have e-codes). I took my time and 'modified' the batt tray so the battery was secure a few inches free from the filter, but I can easily see how there would be an issue if you didn't take time to do so.
I remember quite a few people enjoying the hell out of their setups and I was crazy jealous that mine wouldn't preform but it was what it was. It seemed hit or miss with the setup. I had talked to a few people at different shows about their setups and again, it was hit or miss/ love it or hate it. There was even an incident with someone who bought a setup and was running 16s before the install, he went to WF with his brand new charger and ran a 17+ and drove his car directly to the BBM tent to raise hell. I think his issue was resolved by the end of the day but it was one of those moments that got my stomach queezy (did I just blow $3K??). 
I do remember getting mine to run right a few times now that I think about it more... right before I sold it, it was doin aiight for the most part.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (DeezUU)*

It sounds like you were running the old software.
We hired C2 after you bought your kit to greatly refine and improve on it. The older software had some issues. We thought that we had updated all of our customers with the newer version, maybe you were missed. As for the filter I don't care what brand you have, it needs to be mounted correctly with the mount and shield that we provided with these kits or it can rub and cause ingestion. This is also a part of the warranty, the filter needs to be mounted correctly. Most all gauze filters that I know of use a metal wire to reinforce the filter material. Yes, sucking in pieces of air filter wire and element will most always cause any form of forced induction issues.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

So what is the topic of this thread


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## DeezUU (Oct 11, 2001)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

I dunno?! Out with the old/In with the new?? 
I'm just hangin out to see what's up your sleeves! Electric S/C?? Lol.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (DeezUU)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeezUU* »_I dunno?! Out with the old/In with the new?? 
I'm just hangin out to see what's up your sleeves! Electric S/C?? Lol. 

Twin leaf blowers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vdubin_g60 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
Twin leaf blowers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

when are you releasing some new info


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (DeezUU)*











_Modified by JBETZ at 1:10 PM 12-4-2008_


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## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: (DeezUU)*

Nevermind










_Modified by builtforsin at 10:49 AM 12-4-2008_


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## yip (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

John,
I just want to say thank you!
It's nice to be able to call your business monday through friday and to be able to buy custom parts for my corrado. It's also nice that you somtimes answer the phone in which I pick your brain as much as I can while I have the opportunity!
I think a lot of people take for granted the services ,products you offer and the amount of time you put into making these kits/parts. 
I have worked for a fabricator and know that it takes a lot of time and money to make these kits and other custom parts for very little in return. And to top it off you have to deal with issues stated in this thread. 
All in all I commend you for putting the time and effort into making these parts/kits and offering them to the VW community for very little profit. It shows that you have a passion for what you are doing and that you are not just in it to make money. 
Now with that said I have recently sold off my my 1.9 lysholmed G60 motor and am waiting to see what you are bringing to the market before I make a decision on what engine I want to go with next!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (builtforsin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *builtforsin* »_
Dude there are at least 20 really dumb people that would think that that is real. It's not cool messing with a company like that. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

And I removed it. 
Next time ANYTHING that anybody posts in an effort to take this thread further off topic (and subsequently holed) will have their post deleted, points docked, and reported to admins for further review.
This thread has stayed relatively drama-free and it's going to stay that way. 
Thanks for understanding guys.


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## streetsk8r0924 (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

the topic of this thread is to see what your coming out with for the mk4 2.0 hahaha





















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (streetsk8r0924)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetsk8r0924* »_the topic of this thread is to see what your coming out with for the mk4 2.0 hahaha





















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

and the answer is........ nada, nothing, sorry no plans for the Mk4 platform.


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## streetsk8r0924 (Jan 11, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

oh well neuspeed charger it is lol


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (streetsk8r0924)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetsk8r0924* »_oh well neuspeed charger it is lol
















I'd go with the Kinetic turbo kit... way mo power, great kit and great guys!


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (yip)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yip* »_John,
I just want to say thank you!
It's nice to be able to call your business monday through friday and to be able to buy custom parts for my corrado. It's also nice that you somtimes answer the phone in which I pick your brain as much as I can while I have the opportunity!
I think a lot of people take for granted the services ,products you offer and the amount of time you put into making these kits/parts. 
I have worked for a fabricator and know that it takes a lot of time and money to make these kits and other custom parts for very little in return. And to top it off you have to deal with issues stated in this thread. 
All in all I commend you for putting the time and effort into making these parts/kits and offering them to the VW community for very little profit. It shows that you have a passion for what you are doing and that you are not just in it to make money. 
Now with that said I have recently sold off my my 1.9 lysholmed G60 motor and am waiting to see what you are bringing to the market before I make a decision on what engine I want to go with next!









Thank you, appriciate the nice words. As a business we do need to make some money








Thanks again


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## 75injectedSB (Feb 6, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Keep up the great work John, there will always be the ones trying to knock your business. I have bought many products from you and have always had a good experience. My charger is still running fine, overdriven as well


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## audivwfan (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

Actually, this whole thread began with info concerning the possible loss of availability of the lysholm supercharger unit and John was going to, in the near future, provide all of us interested dubbers waiting with baited breath, with breaking news about new products, directions, etc. that would be coming from BBM.
John, specifically and not to attempt to rehash this whole warranty issue, but as preventative medicine; what EXACTLY IS the lysholm superchager warranty? Where can I obtain a written copy of it? How are we lysholm drivers supposed to properly maintain these units in order to hope to enjoy our sc's for as long as possible? Finally, I have a 50mm pulley on my unit now which I have NOT driven at all yet, and I ran a 53 mm pulley on it for about 3-4 months during breakin of a newly built 2.0l 16v engine. Can running these pulleys potentially shorten the life of my supercharger even though it would be dailly driven and NOT beaten on? What is the proper maintenance and procedures for mainaining these units?


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## builtforsin (Nov 24, 2007)

*Re: (audivwfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audivwfan* »_ Can running these pulleys potentially shorten the life of my supercharger even though it would be dailly driven and NOT beaten on? 

Yes. Unless your keeping the rpms low, which would be boring


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## slacker420 (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (streetsk8r0924)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetsk8r0924* »_oh well neuspeed charger it is lol
















then you had better get your neuspeed charger soon because they have stopped producing them and once they are gone that is it !! Just figured that I would let you know


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## audivwfan (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: (audivwfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audivwfan* »_Actually, this whole thread began with info concerning the possible loss of availability of the lysholm supercharger unit and John was going to, in the near future, provide all of us interested dubbers waiting with baited breath, with breaking news about new products, directions, etc. that would be coming from BBM.
John, specifically and not to attempt to rehash this whole warranty issue, but as preventative medicine; what EXACTLY IS the lysholm superchager warranty? Where can I obtain a written copy of it? How are we lysholm drivers supposed to properly maintain these units in order to hope to enjoy our sc's for as long as possible? Finally, I have a 50mm pulley on my unit now which I have NOT driven at all yet, and I ran a 53 mm pulley on it for about 3-4 months during breakin of a newly built 2.0l 16v engine. Can running these pulleys potentially shorten the life of my supercharger even though it would be dailly driven and NOT beaten on? What is the proper maintenance and procedures for mainaining these units?

Hey John, could your please respond to this post?


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (audivwfan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audivwfan* »_Actually, this whole thread began with info concerning the possible loss of availability of the lysholm supercharger unit and John was going to, in the near future, provide all of us interested dubbers waiting with baited breath, with breaking news about new products, directions, etc. that would be coming from BBM.
John, specifically and not to attempt to rehash this whole warranty issue, but as preventative medicine; what EXACTLY IS the lysholm superchager warranty? Where can I obtain a written copy of it? How are we lysholm drivers supposed to properly maintain these units in order to hope to enjoy our sc's for as long as possible? Finally, I have a 50mm pulley on my unit now which I have NOT driven at all yet, and I ran a 53 mm pulley on it for about 3-4 months during breakin of a newly built 2.0l 16v engine. Can running these pulleys potentially shorten the life of my supercharger even though it would be dailly driven and NOT beaten on? What is the proper maintenance and procedures for mainaining these units?

My 4 yr old boy broke his arm today, poor little guy.
Over two years ago when we had a steady supply of new units our warranty was for one year. Way back not sure how many years ago we did two years. The very few new units that we have sold over the last two years have had a six month warranty. We have also sold some re-manufactured units with no warranty. 
Here is a link for care and maintenance.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/faq/?id=66
Yes, any pulley under 55mm can potentially spin the blower past the engieered limits. When you go into this grey area it is unpredictable, kind of like trying to predict chaos, same with any over driven turbo or g-lader. You cannot know when and if the charger will take it and for how long. Lets just say that I'd guess that 90% or more of our customers over drive them. I've had customers clock over 100k miles with over driven blowers. Hope that helps to clear things up for you.


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## slacker420 (Sep 13, 2006)

Any news on what may be in the future for BBM ??


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## audivwfan (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
My 4 yr old boy broke his arm today, poor little guy.
Over two years ago when we had a steady supply of new units our warranty was for one year. Way back not sure how many years ago we did two years. The very few new units that we have sold over the last two years have had a six month warranty. We have also sold some re-manufactured units with no warranty. 
Here is a link for care and maintenance.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/faq/?id=66
Yes, any pulley under 55mm can potentially spin the blower past the engieered limits. When you go into this grey area it is unpredictable, kind of like trying to predict chaos, same with any over driven turbo or g-lader. You cannot know when and if the charger will take it and for how long. Lets just say that I'd guess that 90% or more of our customers over drive them. I've had customers clock over 100k miles with over driven blowers. Hope that helps to clear things up for you.










Thanks for the info. Hope your boys heels quickly.


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## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*

John, I'm sorry your son broke his arm. hope your family and yourself are doing great. Happy Holidays my friend.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (JonVWluver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JonVWluver* »_John, I'm sorry your son broke his arm. hope your family and yourself are doing great. Happy Holidays my friend.









Jon, best wishes for you and your family, love you bro...happy holidays. My little tornado is already bouncing back quick! Merry Christmas








Vortex rule #1: never post after you have had a couple of cocktails or a few beers






















Vortex rule #2: never forget or brake rule #1










_Modified by JBETZ at 1:39 PM 12-19-2008_


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