# Instrument Cluster Backlighting Dim or Failing [TOC]



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM*

Hello all,
In the past few days, I've noticed that when my headlights are on the white backlighting of the speedometer, tachometer, and other gauges in the instrument cluster fail to illuminate, however the red needles within each guage do illuminate properly. Furthermore, the rheostat adjustment does successfully brighten and dim the red needles, but the faces of the gauges remain dark. I checked fuses 23 and 27 and both are fine. Any ideas?








Thanks,
Ron


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM (remrem)*

Hi Ron:
Unless there is another fuse that provides power to the wash lighting inside the instrument cluster (there may be), I suspect that there has been a failure of the wash lighting circuit.
Michael


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
You were correct in that the wash lighting circuit had failed, and unfortunately it was internal and not fuse related. So, they had to replace the entire cluster. The good news is that my Real Driver extended warranty covered the replacement, which would have cost about $1,000.
It's a shame that such a minor failure requires the replacement of the entire cluster. I would love to see if a few minutes of disassembly and a wire splice could have solved the problem


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

Is there a way to switch on the gauge illumination permanently without also turning on the external lights? Perhaps using VAG-COM?
I've noticed that in some ambient lighting conditions (eg gloomy daylight, dazzling sun) the dials can become practically unreadable. I have automatic lighting and am referring to lighting conditions that don't trigger the driving lights - and hence the gauge illumination.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aristoteles* »_Is there a way to switch on the gauge illumination permanently without also turning on the external lights? Perhaps using VAG-COM?

No. There is an almost universal safety standard that requires that the exterior lights be on if the instrument cluster is illuminated - I think this is to ensure that people do not drive around "thinking" that their exterior lights are on when in fact they are not.
Michael


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Almost universal indeed.
I own a Citroën XM where the instrument cluster is so recessed that by default, it is always illuminated. It is done in such a way that in daytime, it doesn't look like it is illuminated. It just has a "normal" look, but when you drive into a tunnel without switching your lights, you just realize that the thing is always illuminated.
And as you said, it happened to me a couple of times to drive the car in the evening in a highly lit area, and got people flashing at me because my lights weren't on, even though my dashboard was illuminated.
Anyway, I don't think there is a hard and fast rule on this, otherwise Citroën would not have gotten away with it.
So maybe it is doable on the Phaeton...


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## adamkodish (Mar 5, 2006)

*Re: (Zaphh)*

My former 1997 Audi S8 used to illuminate the instruments in low light conditions. I only drove it without the lights on at night in a well lit area a couple of times (why are those cars flashing me?)
Adam


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (Zaphh)*

Not so universal: our Acura RL has an instrument cluster that is always backlit, and so, I have noticed, are many Lexus and Toyota products. This may be why I'm beginning to see more and more cars without exteriro lights at night..
Stefano


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

As mentioned I have automatic initiation of my external driving lights when ambient light falls below a preset level. So I don't drive around with my lights off when they should be on.
Maybe the downside of my notion is accelerated failure of instrument illumination? In any event, I'm not surprised some cars with deeply buried instruments require permanent illumination. And of course, there are cars with pure light displays and few or no conventionally lit instrumentation.


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*

My wife's '06 Subaru Outback's main instrument cluster stays lighted with the head lights off but all other dash and console lights only illuminate when the light switch is in the on position. It would not be hard to understand that because the DRL's and main cluster lighting stays illuminated all the time a driver might think their lights were on. Poor safety engineering in my book







.
I've noticed (very intermittently) that my tach, speedometer, fuel, and temperature gauge lighting ('04 V8) sometimes "flickers". By flickers I mean not an actual on/off blinking but more like a slight visible pulsation. As stated, it's very intermittent and only seems to happen once or twice every few months. Driver side battery load tests within spec. Any ideas and has anyone else experienced this?
Ron


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM (remrem)*

Well, it's been about a month since they replaced my entire instrument cluster because of the failed "wash" lighting circuit. In the past few days an even more minor problem has arisen. 
When I engage my turn signal or my hazard lights, the audible "click, click, click" has gone silent. The turn signals are operating properly, just no "click, click". If I want to get this fixed, I suspect they will have to replace the entire instrument cluster again. What a waste!
My inclination is to just leave it alone, but what I find surprising is how I miss the feedback that little noise maker provides. I keep looking down at my display or over at my side view mirror indicator to make sure the signals are indeed operating. Strange how I'm missing something I used to think of as unnecessary and even a little annoying


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (Rowayton)*

Ronald, I believe the RHS battery is only for starting. If so, the LHS battery might be involved in voltage problems with the instrument cluster, but I would doubt it. Have you noticed if your voltmeter flickers or pulses at the same time as the other gauges? It should stay steady at 14v if the charging circuit is sound. 
I haven't looked at a wiring diagram of that circuit but dirty plugin connections as well as a failing relay(if there is one) could be suspect.  However, it could be one of those Phaeton electrical gremlins that never cause a problem but worry you to death. The good news is that if there is a problem that eventually results in constant fault, I assume you'd only lose your instrument cluster and would not get stranded. If it gets worse, I would think VagCom would pick it up.


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM (remrem)*

Have you spoken to the dealership about the absence of the turn indicator click? It is a safety feature and should be attended to - in my experience it is sometimes the only way you discover your indicators have not self-cancelled.
Nasty accidents can occur when a car mistakenly indicates it is turning into a minor road, but instead drives straight by without slowing and whacks into a car mislead by the turn indication into emerging from the side road in front of it (in the UK such an accident is usually a 50/50 liability).
The garage should have picked up the problem when they ran through their final inspection and already know of the malfunction. If they cavil you could ask to see a copy of the mechanic's checklist to see whether the audio function was passed or not. Either way, it's their mistake! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_When I engage my turn signal or my hazard lights, the audible "click, click, click" has gone silent. 

The "clicking" sound that indicates that the turn signals are active is an artificially generated sound. On older vehicles (pre 2000), the sound came from the mechanical operation of a relay. In the Phaeton, the power to the turn signals is controlled by the central electrical controller, and operation is absolutely silent. So - to provide the clicking sound, the instrument cluster controller has a small sound generator and a speaker in it.
If the sound has disappeared, the only alternative is to (again) replace the instrument cluster.
Michael


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Jim, 
There has been no flickering and the ammeter stays pegged at 14v. Also, I replaced the left battery 3 months ago, so unfortunately I think I just got a defective cluster. However, now you've got me thinking that maybe it's not a coincidence and that something else is going on








Thanks Andrew, 
Your point about the safety aspects of this feature is well taken, and I had not really grasped the importance of this little noise maker until you described a potentially dangerous scenario that could easily occur. As for my service department, I can't blame them for any of this, since the new instrument cluster was working perfectly after they installed it last month. This problem only surfaced in the past week or so. The repair was covered under my Real Driver warranty, and I have no doubt that VW will cover this new part failure.
Thanks Michael,
That's very interesting that they now generate the clicking noise artificially, I didn't know that. Jim's got me thinking that maybe it's not a coincidence that I've had 2 problems with my instrument cluster. Any ideas, or do you think I just got unlucky?
Regards,
Ron


_Modified by remrem at 9:11 AM 11-8-2009_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: INSTRUMENT GAUGE ILLUMINATION PROBLEM (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_...maybe it's not a coincidence that I've had 2 problems with my instrument cluster. Any ideas, or do you think I just got unlucky?


Hi Ron:
Based on everything I have read above, I think you have just been unlucky. So, get the cluster replaced (again), and hopefully that will solve the problem. Ask the tech to take a very close look at the diagnostic scan report to see if there have been any over-voltage problems reported.
Michael


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## eveposk (Jun 9, 2009)

I have the same problem, and I believe cluster needs to be replaced. I bought instruments cluster, but I have a question - does cluster needs to be "assigned" to car after installing it?
I have talked to one tech guy, and he told me he had terrible experience with Phaeton instruments cluster. He installed new cluster (the same problem with lights), and... nothing worked. Car did NOT start, ignition did NOT turn on, even gearbox got blocked.
So I'm afraid to install new cluster.


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## eveposk (Jun 9, 2009)

Anyone, please? I really don't want my car to get "blocked" by internal computer after installing new cluster.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (eveposk)*

Hello Eve,
I'm no expert, but I know this is a job I wouldn't want anyone other than an authorized VW service facility to touch. One thing I know for sure, is that they need to transfer over the correct mileage from the old odometer to the new odometer. Here in North America, it is my understanding that the process requires some sort of interface and authorization from VW headquarters, to prevent unauthorized tampering. Therefore, at least in this one way, but perhaps in others as well, the cluster DOES need to be "assigned" to the car. I would expect the same would hold true in Europe. 
Regards,
Ron


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## eveposk (Jun 9, 2009)

*Re: (remrem)*

I don't know what is going on here... If I drive the car for longer than 10 minutes, voltmeter starts producing a bit of light (the right corner of voltmeter becomes bright), while other parts of instruments cluster remain dark (except red arrows)


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (eveposk)*

Hello Eve,
I've looked through your posts on this thread, as well as the others you've made, and there are still a couple of questions that remain unanswered:
1. Did you replace BOTH batteries, and did you make sure the left battery was replaced with the correct AGM (absorbed glass mat) factory battery?
2. Did you install the NEW instrument cluster you purchased yet? If so, was it installed by a VW facility that had the ability to properly connect to the VW technical department to correctly code it to your car?
I am no expert, but I suspect that if the answer is no to the above questions, then perhaps these problems you are having are related to these issues.
Regards,
Ron


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## eveposk (Jun 9, 2009)

*Re: (remrem)*

I'm going to replace batteries later today. New dashboard wasn't installed yet because I'm looking for someone who could do it (unfortunately, only idiots work in local dealer service, so I won't deal with them)


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## jzvortex (Jan 11, 2009)

*Instrument Gauge Illumination*

I have a similar problem. Every so often -- definitely not consistently -- when the headlights are set to auto (the intermediate position on the selector) and it's dark outside, upon starting up the car the backlighting on the instrumentation panel and various buttons (like radio) will not come on. The needles in the gauges illuminate, but not the gauges. If I move the selector to lights ON rather than auto, the illumination comes on (which is different from other accounts in this thread). Rebooting the car doesn't help. The only fix is to walk away from it for several minutes and do a full cold start from scratch -- after which everything works normally.
The left side battery was recently replaced. Any other thoughts as to what might be causing this, especially since it's intermittent, and since the lighting works all the time in the ON position?
Thanks,
Jonathan


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Instrument Gauge Illumination (jzvortex)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jzvortex* »_ Any other thoughts as to what might be causing this, especially since it's intermittent, and since the lighting works all the time in the ON position?

Hi Jonathan:
The instrument cluster illumination is provided by some kind of technology (I don't know exactly what) that is not incandescent lighting. It might be fluorescent or cold-cathode. The technology is similar to that which is used to backlight laptop screens and/or flat panel LCDs.
In the early days, when this technology was in its infancy (meaning, at the start of this century, when the instrument cluster was designed), failures after time (rather than hours of use) were not uncommon. I think we are starting to see the backlighting slowly fail (dim out) on many of these clusters. I had the same problem with my car when it was about 4 years old, and just managed to catch it within the OEM warranty period.
Michael


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## jzvortex (Jan 11, 2009)

*Re: Instrument Gauge Illumination (PanEuropean)*

Dear Michael,
Thanks for the quick response. It sounds like the same issue as the intermittent backlighting problems I'm seeing with the central infotainment center screen -- though the problems don't happen in sync.
The only weird thing here compared to the infotainment lighting is that I can achieve full illumination for the gauges when the problem arises by just switching from auto headlights to ON headlights -- that suggests it's a software or control issue rather than the actual instrumentation backlighting system failing.
Jonathan


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Instrument Gauge Illumination (PanEuropean)*

I am having the instrument cluster backlight problem (i.e., only the orange hands glow) and plan on taking it to the dealer soon. This happens on cold starts only (i.e., morning, or end of day after being parked 10 hrs), and solves itself after about 3 or 4 minutes.
My CPO warranty expires in 90 days.
$1,000 for a new cluster, uh? It is probably a 10¢ resistor for the neon lamp, or somesuch.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

This post explains how to replace the speaker in the instrument panel that generates turn signal and other sounds: Replacing the Speaker (turn signal sound generator) Inside the Instrument Cluster.

Michael


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Wow... very nice tuitorial on how to replace instrument cluster speaker... Now, is there one to make instrument cluster BRIGHTER? Is there someone who can repair the instrument cluster and make it brighter? 

The reason I am asking for brighter is because during the daytime... with the sunglasses on... I cannot see the instrument cluster... especially how fast I am going... If I turn on the headlight... I can barely see something. It is dangerous to try to read something... takes too much time to recognize how fast you are driving because the speedometer is too small. 

I would like to have something like my folk's 2005 Acura MDX... it is super bright when you turn on the car and then dims when you turn on the headlight. 

There got to be someone who can do this modification.


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## rmcclain54 (Sep 2, 2012)

Tiger0002 said:


> Wow... very nice tuitorial on how to replace instrument cluster speaker... Now, is there one to make instrument cluster BRIGHTER? Is there someone who can repair the instrument cluster and make it brighter?
> 
> The reason I am asking for brighter is because during the daytime... with the sunglasses on... I cannot see the instrument cluster... especially how fast I am going... If I turn on the headlight... I can barely see something. It is dangerous to try to read something... takes too much time to recognize how fast you are driving because the speedometer is too small.
> 
> ...


 I have had the same issue, but found that if I turned on the headlight switch to full on, instead of the auto, ie mid position, it will brighten up the dash. Sometimes it takes a minute or so, don't know why, but usually does the trick.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Tiger0002 said:


> Wow... very nice tuitorial on how to replace instrument cluster speaker... Now, is there one to make instrument cluster BRIGHTER? Is there someone who can repair the instrument cluster and make it brighter?


I don't think we have any discussion of this here in our forum, but the Touaregs (model years 2003 - 2007) use an almost identical instrument cluster to the Phaeton, and there are a heck of a lot of Touaregs out there. So, you might want to browse through the Touareg forums (both on Vortex and at Club Touareg) and see what you can find.

If you find anything good, please post a link to it here.

Michael


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

OK... will give a search a try.


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## tommyccbc (Aug 14, 2009)

*Y24 Black*

I have read a lot of different threads on the instrument cluster. Back story, I bought the car a few weeks ago with 77,000 miles. I don't remember if the Y24 was working or not when I first test drove it, as it was night, and at night it's very faint but you can see it. The gentlemen I bought it from said he had just replaced the battery because it sat for quite sometime. Before I part with my hard earned cash I would like to know if anyone has heard of someone actually restoring the Y24. I have found a pretty good deal for a new cluster at $216 but after reading all the posts am leery of replacing the original cluster. Oh and I already tried the 2 fuse removal, seems to me that this is for a garbled display fix. Absolutely love the car as it has no other issues.

Thanks :beer:


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Tom:

The brightness of display screens such as the small display between the tachometer and speedometer (Y24) and the large display between the two front seats (J523) diminishes over time. This is a known characteristic of the backlighting used in these types of displays (laptop computer screens have the same problem), and not something that is unique to the Phaeton.

There has been some discussion about this here in the forum in the past (see above, I've appended your question onto an existing discussion of the same problem). Up to about 2010, most of us just replaced the instrument cluster, but that is quite expensive: the cluster itself is a little over $1,000 for the part, and several hours of labour is needed to reprogram and re-adapt the immobilizer, the various keys, etc. (Physical replacement of the cluster itself is pretty simple).

Sometime within the past few years, there has been discussion here in the forum about replacing a small electronic component within the cluster that is responsible for the backlighting. I can't recall exactly where that discussion is, but if you browse through the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) looking at discussions that relate to the instrument cluster or the big front information display (the J523), you will probably stumble across an Archival Note that refers you to a discussion more specific to backlighting.

In the meantime, have a look at this discussion: Turn Signals - no sound (chime) when turn signal activated. That will give you some good background on the process of removing and replacing the cluster, and what is inside it.

I recently bought a small part via eBay that I think is the electronic part responsible for the brightness of the display screen. There is a picture of it below. I bought it to add to my private stock of parts - I'm not having any brightness problems at present. Have a look at this eBay auction, I think it will get you started down the right path: Transformer for instrument Cluster Illumination Repair. You might be able to find some more information about the actual replacement process in one of the Touareg forums - the MY 2003 to 2006 Phaetons and Touaregs have almost identical instrument clusters.

Michael

*Part that supports illumination of Y24 display*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

A postscript: Fellow forum member Itzmann found the instructions for replacing that lighting part in the instrument cluster - see the link he provided in post #7 of this discussion: Replacing the Speaker (turn signal sound generator) Inside the Instrument Cluster.

Here's a direct link to that same discussion on one of the Touareg forums: Instrument Cluster Illumination Transformer Replacement.

Michael


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## tommyccbc (Aug 14, 2009)

*The man*



PanEuropean said:


> A postscript: Fellow forum member Itzmann found the instructions for replacing that lighting part in the instrument cluster - see the link he provided in post #7 of this discussion: Replacing the Speaker (turn signal sound generator) Inside the Instrument Cluster.
> 
> Here's a direct link to that same discussion on one of the Touareg forums: Instrument Cluster Illumination Transformer Replacement.
> 
> Michael


Michael,

As I go through all the threads I noticed you are the man! Thank you for taking the time, unpaid I might add, for all the feedback, help and updates. I just purchased the above transformer and will pull out the cluster and take to United Speedometer here in Riverside, CA to see what they can do. Quick note, I had my car washed Friday and since then my memory buttons on the drivers seat don't work. Passenger is fine. It was fine before that. Weird! 

Cheers :beer:

Tom


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

tommyccbc said:


> I had my car washed Friday and since then my memory buttons on the drivers seat don't work.


Hi Tom:

The cause of that problem might be something as simple as a ham-handed employee at the car wash pressing in the SET button when wiping down the side of the seat. If the SET button is held in for more than 2 seconds, the present position of all the moving components gets written to the memory of whatever number button is pressed next. More info here: Store Settings for the Seat Memory buttons, key fobs, driver preferences 

Michael


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