# Long term ownership of an Audi?



## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

I am shopping the A3 now - as an alternative to a GTI. 

I have owned many cars (I am in my 50s) but haven't owned an Audi (or BMW or M-B). Most of my vehicles have been Japanese, but have owned a Jaguar. Also Fords and a few others. I do most of the normal maintenance on my vehicles. I tend to keep vehicles a good while. Haven't gotten rid of a vehicle with less than 100K miles on it in twenty years. I own an 1997 NSX, driven 1-2 days a week. We have an M35 (nearing 100K) in the family, along with a Pilot (144K). 

What could I expect of an Audi A3 2.0 if I bought it new? Assume 12,000-15,000 miles per year, mixed.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

hoffdano said:


> I am shopping the A3 now - as an alternative to a GTI.
> 
> I have owned many cars (I am in my 50s) but haven't owned an Audi (or BMW or M-B). Most of my vehicles have been Japanese, but have owned a Jaguar. Also Fords and a few others. I do most of the normal maintenance on my vehicles. I tend to keep vehicles a good while. Haven't gotten rid of a vehicle with less than 100K miles on it in twenty years. I own an 1997 NSX, driven 1-2 days a week. We have an M35 (nearing 100K) in the family, along with a Pilot (144K).
> 
> What could I expect of an Audi A3 2.0 if I bought it new? Assume 12,000-15,000 miles per year, mixed.


Last September I traded in my 2006 A3 (8P), bought in March 2006, which has the first generation 2.0T FSI engine at ~ 155K miles. That car was "chipped" (APR ECU tune) from 5K through 105K miles, when it was overwritten during a dealer service I decided to let it stay stock to enhance longevity. It was still running well when I traded it in. Full synthetic oil change at every 5K miles, and DSG service at every 35K miles. Only major items that I can remember throughout my ownership were (1) 4 battery replacements, (2) 2 sets of coil pack replacements, and (3) coil outer CV boot replacements on both drive shafts (at different times).


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## barho (Jun 16, 2014)

Go to your local dealer and find a CPO dealer loaner A3 2.0. That is what I did. Found one with 4,100 on odo. CPO give you an additional 2yrs/50,000 mile warranty for a total 6yr/100K warranty.


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## WLV (Apr 23, 2014)

Of course it's impossible to know how well the A3 will hold up, given that the US-spec version has been on sale for less than a year. However, the signs look good.

Consumer Reports now rates Audi as the top European brand in terms of reliability, and I believe #4 most-reliable manufacturer over all.

I bought an A3 TDI two months ago. I sold my 2005 Audi A4 with 126,000 miles. That car required a fair amount of mostly warranty service, including electric window motor replacement, fuel pump, all four coil packs, and then also struts and CV joints. The coil pack was a known issue--they had a lousy supplier and it affected VWs as well.

I decided to buy another Audi because of the driving experience, and felt better about it seeing how their reliability ratings had strongly increased.

I would suggest you get AudiCare, Audi's prepaid service plan for the 2nd through fifth services; according to the service advisor, you save about 40% off the cost of paying for each service individually.


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## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

Thanks.....Does Quattro itself cause or require maintenance over time? I have seen the CR reports - which are promising.


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## Randle P. McMurphy (Jan 23, 2015)

I am getting ready to sell/trade in a 2004 A4 for either an S3 or Golf R, and the one thing I suggest is find a good, independent VW/Audi shop for the post-warranty maintenance. I can't imagine the sticker shock of going back to the dealer for something like timing belts.


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## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

Randle P. McMurphy said:


> I am getting ready to sell/trade in a 2004 A4 for either an S3 or Golf R, and the one thing I suggest is find a good, independent VW/Audi shop for the post-warranty maintenance. I can't imagine the sticker shock of going back to the dealer for something like timing belts.


The new 2.0 engines are timing chain now aren't they?


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## Randle P. McMurphy (Jan 23, 2015)

hoffdano said:


> The new 2.0 engines are timing chain now aren't they?


Totally possible, and apologies if I confused anyone. My experience is with a 2004 A4, which is why I wrote "something like timing belts" as a major-maintenance example. 

I am only in this forum because I am on the fence between an S3 and R


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## misaka (Feb 8, 2013)

hoffdano said:


> I am shopping the A3 now - as an alternative to a GTI.
> 
> I have owned many cars (I am in my 50s) but haven't owned an Audi (or BMW or M-B). Most of my vehicles have been Japanese, but have owned a Jaguar. Also Fords and a few others. I do most of the normal maintenance on my vehicles. I tend to keep vehicles a good while. Haven't gotten rid of a vehicle with less than 100K miles on it in twenty years. I own an 1997 NSX, driven 1-2 days a week. We have an M35 (nearing 100K) in the family, along with a Pilot (144K).
> 
> What could I expect of an Audi A3 2.0 if I bought it new? Assume 12,000-15,000 miles per year, mixed.


Probably pretty good, it's been out in europe for 2-3 years now. But then again, I don't usually combine the words VW/Audi with legendary reliability.

I think in general it's a fairly reliable car, and as with all VAG products can be prone to minor issues. If you want something fun and decently reliable, then this is a decent car for you. 

If you're going for most reliable/problem free, I'd consider a lexus.


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## sublime1996525 (Jan 21, 2015)

It seems Audi has really stepped up their game. I do know that the MkVII GTI's were having some turbo issues and that's the same motor in the 2.0 A3 correct? But I would think that would all be covered under warranty and if they get the kinks worked outthen great! I've also been following the BMW boards and there seems to be a hell of a lot less complaints here about issues.


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

I would call my experience with a 2007 A3 solid-to-good. Sold it after 8 years reaching 136K miles. It never left me stranded. It was my first reaching into the Audi level. There were issues, but the significant ones were covered by warranty, service bulletins, recalls. Cam follower, ignition coils, AC compressor. I think I paid for the scheduled timing belt (NL applicable) and a CV boot. Maybe something else minor. 3 batteries. Normal wear/tear stuff, tires, shocks.

Coming from Honda and Nissan, I was often a little scared about how badly I'd suffer its average reliability. In hindsight, i think it was better than I had feared. Yes, some of those odd-year maintenance trips got expensive. $400-$800 bills vs probably half that for the Japanese dealerships. I did start to fear the costs of driving it into the ground, so I sold it before I had to find out.

Yes the Audi had some rattles after 8 years, but honestly, 9 months in to a new Mazda 6 and it has similar, so I suspect that it will suffer those more as it ages. The workmanship, especially the interior of the Audi was excellent on a day to day, what you look at and feel level. So I miss it in that way.


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## Fizzboy7 (Feb 20, 2003)

Over the last 15 years, the main pattern with Audi has been this: Quite reliable for the first four years of ownership. Once the warranty is over, things start happening. You'll be fine overall if you cover yourself with an extended warranty once the factory one wears out.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

KnockKnock said:


> I would call my experience with a 2007 A3 solid-to-good. Sold it after 8 years reaching 136K miles. It never left me stranded. It was my first reaching into the Audi level. There were issues, but the significant ones were covered by warranty, service bulletins, recalls. Cam follower, ignition coils, AC compressor. I think I paid for the scheduled timing belt (NL applicable) and a CV boot. Maybe something else minor. 3 batteries. Normal wear/tear stuff, tires, shocks.
> 
> Coming from Honda and Nissan, I was often a little scared about how badly I'd suffer its average reliability. In hindsight, i think it was better than I had feared. Yes, some of those odd-year maintenance trips got expensive. $400-$800 bills vs probably half that for the Japanese dealerships. I did start to fear the costs of driving it into the ground, so I sold it before I had to find out.
> 
> Yes the Audi had some rattles after 8 years, but honestly, 9 months in to a new Mazda 6 and it has similar, so I suspect that it will suffer those more as it ages. The workmanship, especially the interior of the Audi was excellent on a day to day, what you look at and feel level. So I miss it in that way.


This parallels my 2006 A3 ownership experience as well. The batteries just don't last on that car; fortunately it is a relatively inexpensive part that one can replace oneself. Right before 50K miles I opened up the fuel pump housing to inspect the cam follower (in case there was a major issue that needed to be addressed within warranty) and I ended up replacing the cam follower itself, but that was a major pain because my car had the solid metal fuel lines. I understand that the fuel pump design was improved starting with the 2008.5+ models, i.e., the engines with timing chain instead of time belt, which largely resolved the cam follower issues.

The Mazda 6 drives pretty well and has a more comfortable backseat, but is just too slow coming from a 2.0T FSI.


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

hoffdano said:


> The new 2.0 engines are timing chain now aren't they?


yup.


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## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

What is the regular maintenance schedule? What does the $800 prepaid maintenance schedule cover?


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

hoffdano said:


> What is the regular maintenance schedule? What does the $800 prepaid maintenance schedule cover?


It should cover whatever is recommended in the manual up until it expires.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

hoffdano said:


> What is the regular maintenance schedule? What does the $800 prepaid maintenance schedule cover?


It covers the 15k, 25k, 35k, and 45k miles services. Make sure your dealer does the DSG service at 35k miles; with the old A3 (8P), which sold in smaller numbers, some dealers did not know that the "automatic" transmission had to be serviced so early.


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## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

A3_yuppie said:


> It covers the 15k, 25k, 35k, and 45k miles services. Make sure your dealer does the DSG service at 35k miles; with the old A3 (8P), which sold in smaller numbers, some dealers did not know that the "automatic" transmission had to be serviced so early.


I found the 2015 year maintenance schedule at: http://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-Maintenance-Schedule-Model-Year-2015.pdf

It looks like the items on the schedule that are not "inspect" items are: 

5K miles: oil/filter change
15K miles: oil/filter change, dust/pollen filter
25K miles: oil/filter change
35K miles: oil/filter change, dust/pollen filter, spark plugs, DSG fluid
45K miles: oil/filter change 

Brake fluid every 2 years. The text on the air filter is very confusing - but it looks like it is due at 55K and would not be covered by the prepaid plan. 

Does that sound right? Is that worth $800? Would the dealer charge $75 for the oil/filter change? How much for spark plugs and the DSG? Dealers' prices for cabin filters are typically ridiculous. 

I would normally DIY oil/filter changes. My cost for 6 qts synthetic and a filter would be about $40.


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## drober30 (Jan 5, 2015)

hoffdano said:


> Does that sound right? Is that worth $800? Would the dealer charge $75 for the oil/filter change? How much for spark plugs and the DSG? Dealers' prices for cabin filters are typically ridiculous.
> 
> I would normally DIY oil/filter changes. My cost for 6 qts synthetic and a filter would be about $40.


Excellent question, I may just call my dealer tomorrow and get a price. I' don't plan on waiting 10,000 miles between ill changes and I enjoy doing it myself. Plus, the first oil change at 5k is included free with the purchase of the car.


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## RedwinGV (May 11, 2014)

drober30 said:


> Excellent question, I may just call my dealer tomorrow and get a price. I' don't plan on waiting 10,000 miles between ill changes and I enjoy doing it myself. Plus, the first oil change at 5k is included free with the purchase of the car.


I should do this as well, but I'll wait until I get closer to 15k. Not trying to hijack the thread, but why would you change the oil more frequently than 10k? I have no data, but I bet one could go 15k between changes without harming the engine. I would have to believe 10k is a conservative number to start with. No harm intended, just curious as to why you think this way.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

hoffdano said:


> I found the 2015 year maintenance schedule at: http://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-Maintenance-Schedule-Model-Year-2015.pdf
> 
> It looks like the items on the schedule that are not "inspect" items are:
> 
> ...


Yes it's worth it unless you live somewhere with extremely low dealer service labor rates. My dealer charges about $120 for an oil change, and the DSG service is about $250. The factory platinum spark plugs are at least $50. I have no idea how much the AC filters are. Plus there is the peace of mind with respect to any necessary warranty work, i.e., dealer cannot say that your car was not properly maintained.

What synthetic oil and oil filter do you use and where can you get it for $40?


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## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

A3_yuppie said:


> Yes it's worth it unless you live somewhere with extremely low dealer service labor rates. My dealer charges about $120 for an oil change, and the DSG service is about $250. The factory platinum spark plugs are at least $50. I have no idea how much the AC filters are. Plus there is the peace of mind with respect to any necessary warranty work, i.e., dealer cannot say that your car was not properly maintained.
> 
> What synthetic oil and oil filter do you use and where can you get it for $40?


I appreciate the post. Austin TX is not a place of low dealer service for German cars. 

I buy Mobil1 at Walmart in 5 qt. jugs for $25. That's $5/qt. So the 6qts for the A3 would be $30. $10 for a filter? I use Purolator PureOne, or Wix, or other known good filters on my other vehicles. Unless Audi filters are expensive $40 seems realistic.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

hoffdano said:


> I appreciate the post. Austin TX is not a place of low dealer service for German cars.
> 
> I buy Mobil1 at Walmart in 5 qt. jugs for $25. That's $5/qt. So the 6qts for the A3 would be $30. $10 for a filter? I use Purolator PureOne, or Wix, or other known good filters on my other vehicles. Unless Audi filters are expensive $40 seems realistic.


I plan to do the in-between (i.e., in the middle of the 10K mile intervals) oil changes on my car. I also know about the $25 jugs of Mobil 1 at Walmart (but it is often out of stock at the Walmart closest to my house) except I need one jug and one quart as I do not want to keep a 4/5 full jug around (too hard to pour in 1 quart from a 5 quart jug). I have yet to find a German made filter for this car but the Hengst and Mann filter for my old A3 (8P) was >$12, so my cost is closer to $45-$50.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

hoffdano said:


> I appreciate the post. Austin TX is not a place of low dealer service for German cars.
> 
> I buy Mobil1 at Walmart in 5 qt. jugs for $25. That's $5/qt. So the 6qts for the A3 would be $30. $10 for a filter? I use Purolator PureOne, or Wix, or other known good filters on my other vehicles. Unless Audi filters are expensive $40 seems realistic.


Note that around here at least, Walmart doesn't stock mobil1 that is rated for these engines. The only mobil1 product I know of rated for the recent TSIs is "Mobil 1 ESP (Emissions system protection)" - which no one seems to carry local. Mobil 1 is my oil of choice, but I've made do with Castrol Syntec O.E. Pro, which is certified to the VW 50x.x (I forget the exact spec #) standard. If the new engines requires yet a newer standard, I don't even know if that stuff is approved. Buying it from a local shop ( http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3717 for my MK6 ) is only $53, so not much off of $40.. but that includes the filter and drain plug w/ crush washer.


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## drober30 (Jan 5, 2015)

RedwinGV said:


> I should do this as well, but I'll wait until I get closer to 15k. Not trying to hijack the thread, but why would you change the oil more frequently than 10k? I have no data, but I bet one could go 15k between changes without harming the engine. I would have to believe 10k is a conservative number to start with. No harm intended, just curious as to why you think this way.


Grew up with the 3,000 mile oil change generation. I know that does not still apply today but if I can change my own oil for $40 every 5,000 to 7,000 miles then why not? OCD plus it just makes me feel good, like I'm protecting my motor.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

araemo said:


> Note that around here at least, Walmart doesn't stock mobil1 that is rated for these engines. The only mobil1 product I know of rated for the recent TSIs is "Mobil 1 ESP (Emissions system protection)" - which no one seems to carry local. Mobil 1 is my oil of choice, but I've made do with Castrol Syntec O.E. Pro, which is certified to the VW 50x.x (I forget the exact spec #) standard. If the new engines requires yet a newer standard, I don't even know if that stuff is approved. Buying it from a local shop ( http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3717 for my MK6 ) is only $53, so not much off of $40.. but that includes the filter and drain plug w/ crush washer.


Mobil 1 0w-40 states on the container that the oil meets VW 502.00, the standard for the 2015 A3. I have also heard of people using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel synthetic motor oil in their 1st gen. 2.0T FSI engines without issues.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

A3_yuppie said:


> Mobil 1 0w-40 states on the container that the oil meets VW 502.00, the standard for the 2015 A3. I have also heard of people using Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel synthetic motor oil in their 1st gen. 2.0T FSI engines without issues.


That's weird. The older 2.0T in the last gen, at least in the VWs, requires 504/507 oil (and the audi website has a section for 504/507, though it doesn't say what cars require it). I wonder why audi lets you use the older oil spec, or why VW 'requires' the newer spec in the same engines?


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## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

araemo said:


> Note that around here at least, Walmart doesn't stock mobil1 that is rated for these engines. The only mobil1 product I know of rated for the recent TSIs is "Mobil 1 ESP (Emissions system protection)" - which no one seems to carry local. Mobil 1 is my oil of choice, but I've made do with Castrol Syntec O.E. Pro, which is certified to the VW 50x.x (I forget the exact spec #) standard. If the new engines requires yet a newer standard, I don't even know if that stuff is approved. Buying it from a local shop ( http://www.hstuning.com/product_info.php?products_id=3717 for my MK6 ) is only $53, so not much off of $40.. but that includes the filter and drain plug w/ crush washer.


Hmmm that is good to know. Though I wonder about the post below yours that says M1 0W40 meets the VW 502 00 spec. 

I am passing on the Audi Care. I just don't think it is worth $800. I'll do my own oil changes - certainly for less $$ than the dealer cost. 

The current list on Audi's website shows M1 0W40 meets the spec. 

http://www.audiusa.com/content/dam/audiusa/Documents/Audi-1997-2014-Technical-Service-Bulletin.pdf


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## Bruticus (Aug 30, 2014)

hoffdano said:


> Hmmm that is good to know. Though I wonder about the post below yours that says M1 0W40 meets the VW 502 00 spec.
> 
> I am passing on the Audi Care. I just don't think it is worth $800. I'll do my own oil changes - certainly for less $$ than the dealer cost.
> 
> ...


I agree with you and plan to do the same thing. One thing that is left out of the conversation is trust. I have caught many a mechanic doing a poor job or not doing it all. By doing it myself, within reason, I assure myself it will be done right. Parts and supplies are pretty easy to get mail order, if not available locally.

BTW, if you do need a dealer, San Antonio's is much cheaper than Austin's. Although, it is farther away and less convenient for most Austinites.


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## hoffdano (Dec 19, 2014)

Bruticus said:


> I agree with you and plan to do the same thing. One thing that is left out of the conversation is trust. I have caught many a mechanic doing a poor job or not doing it all. By doing it myself, within reason, I assure myself it will be done right. Parts and supplies are pretty easy to get mail order, if not available locally.
> 
> BTW, if you do need a dealer, San Antonio's is much cheaper than Austin's. Although, it is farther away and less convenient for most Austinites.


I like to think I am frugal but not cheap. Never owned an Audi before, but I'm confident that if I can take care of my NSX, I can take care of an A3.


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