# New owner with a troubled V10



## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

*V10 Phaeton restoration project*

Hello all,

New to this site, but I've owned various VW's and Audi's over the years, mostly diesels and am also into my Mazda rotaries, owning an rx-7 FD. I've been pondering the idea of a Phaeton as a daily for nearly two years and recently one came up for sale in the spec I have been looking for and I won it at auction for a pretty good price. I picked up a 2004 5.0 V10 LWB 4 seater on Monday. It has early signs of camshaft/lifter failure and completely knackered front brakes. Other than that she seems in pretty good shape and drove well on the 250-mile journey home.

I've ordered replacement camshafts, lifters, bearings, seals etc and new discs. So hopefully I'll have her back up and running soon.

I'm going to try and do the camshafts without removing the engine, it looks like there should be enough space (just!). If anyone has any hints or tips, they'd be very much appreciated.

Here she is, in much need of a good deep clean, I'll get that sorted when the rain stops!


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## docwra (Aug 24, 2017)

Cant help with any advice on doing the work but would be fascinated to see how you get on. I have a sneaking suspicion that my tandem pump needs replacing but the size of any engine bay job puts me right off it. 

If it hasnt been done then Id get the gearbox serviced too, VW say its lifetime sealed but thats bollocks


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## ElSmoko (Feb 10, 2019)

Welcome to the forum! I'm very jealous, I'd love a V10 4 seat. I hope you can get the problems sorted quickly and have some worry free, super luxury motoring. There is something a bit special about the Phaeton, I hope you enjoy it as much as the rest of us do!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I second what docwra says, assuming the mileage is high, change the transmission fluid & filter if it hasn't already been done.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Also, don't forget to replace the engine oil with one that meets VW 506.01 spec - use of the usual long life 504.00/507.00 oil contributes to excessive cam wear on the PD injectors.

Harry


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Scanned the car with VCDS for the first time last night and found a bunch of intermittent faults. Doesn't look like VW have been clearing the codes, so I assume (and hope!) most of these are old. I've copied them out and cleared them, so will see what comes back!



docwra said:


> Cant help with any advice on doing the work but would be fascinated to see how you get on. I have a sneaking suspicion that my tandem pump needs replacing but the size of any engine bay job puts me right off it.
> 
> If it hasnt been done then Id get the gearbox serviced too, VW say its lifetime sealed but thats bollocks


I'll post up pics of the job and let you know how much of a faff it is to work on the V10. The box oil was changed by the previous owner.. But I'll get it changed again for preventative maintenance.



ElSmoko said:


> Welcome to the forum! I'm very jealous, I'd love a V10 4 seat. I hope you can get the problems sorted quickly and have some worry free, super luxury motoring. There is something a bit special about the Phaeton, I hope you enjoy it as much as the rest of us do!


Thanks! I do love the car, feels great on the road. Fingers crossed after fixing the obvious issues she'll make a great daily. Finding replacement brake parts was interesting. The discs are huge at 365mm and I wasn't expecting them to be two piece! Ended up having to go genuine from VW for discs.



invisiblewave said:


> I second what docwra says, assuming the mileage is high, change the transmission fluid & filter if it hasn't already been done.


You're now the third person to mention this to me...I'm guessing this is a common fault! I'll get it done.



Prince Ludwig said:


> Also, don't forget to replace the engine oil with one that meets VW 506.01 spec - use of the usual long life 504.00/507.00 oil contributes to excessive cam wear on the PD injectors.
> 
> Harry


Cheers, is there any particular recommended brand? I was going to go with Quantum 0w30 506.01 unless anyone has a better recommendation.

Cheers for the advice and welcome guys :thumbup::thumbup:.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

A common misconception is that when you take it in for a main dealer service, it will come back out with software updated and all faults cleared. In all the services mine had at main dealers, it was never scanned at all unless I requested they look at a specific problem, and it never came back with a clean scan, usually the opposite. Some of the faults, particularly the sunroof & a couple of comms errors, will always be there. Also, once you investigate the cost and difficulty of changing the transmission fluid, you might want to leave it if it was done relatively recently.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

invisiblewave is right, the dealer doesn't scan it unless you request a scan or pay for a diagnosis or software flash. 

They wouldn't do it otherwise unless it was required as part of a service bulletin or was part of a procedure. Even then they probably wouldn't do a complete scan, just what was needed. 

I don't think they even do a scan for emissions testing.

I would like to add that if the left battery gets low, you will have tons of intermittent voltage faults. 

Every time I start a new scan. I get tons of intermittent faults. 

Keep in mind that the controllers all "remember" every hiccup until you clear faults.


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## AJL44 (Mar 23, 2015)

I think I saw that car on eBay recently and thought it looked like a good deal. 

Can't comment on the engine much but I'd echo what others have said about the transmission; the fluid needs changing every three years or 20k miles. The 5 speed box is notorious for breaking if you don't. I have a ZF specialist place near me who look after mine; removal and disassembly is a 15 hour job, with obviously the same to replace, so you are into £3K before you get into any parts, fluid or the dreaded Vodka and tonic! 

You say the brakes are knackered. Are you needing new discs? The V10 shares it's brakes with the W12 - and the Lamborghini Gallardo - discs and pads are £720 from VW! If you have anywhere that does on car skimming it will be well worth it. I had mine done and it worked great and saved me hundreds of pounds.

You have the factory fitted fridge which is quite rare - have have one but it wasn't fitted from new. 

Does your car have the solar sunroof? 

Nice acquisition and I hope you love it. 

Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

AJL44 said:


> I think I saw that car on eBay recently and thought it looked like a good deal.
> 
> Can't comment on the engine much but I'd echo what others have said about the transmission; the fluid needs changing every three years or 20k miles. The 5 speed box is notorious for breaking if you don't. I have a ZF specialist place near me who look after mine; removal and disassembly is a 15 hour job, with obviously the same to replace, so you are into £3K before you get into any parts, fluid or the dreaded Vodka and tonic!
> 
> ...


Does that also apply to the 6 speed like in mine? I'm going to change the oil in the box, had a look underneath and access isn't too bad.

I do really like the car, it has most options already and is lovely to drive.

It doesn't have the solar sunroof, no. But I'll look into retrofitting it. Any options missing will be fitted .

I've purchased a new steering wheel, steering wheel control module and clock spring to retrofit the heated steering wheel.

My discs were very thin, below the limit, so unfortunately needed replacing. I went with new discs from VW at the cost of 231 per disc. For pads I went with OE quality ones as they were under half the price of VW and a decent brand.

So I changed the camshafts without removing the engine and it took me pretty much all weekend. It was an incredibly fiddly job with the minimal space available in the bay... And the worst bit was that while they did need doing as the lifters were a bit worn (Explaining the different intake note across the banks), it seems my knocking was something deeper.... Most likely coming from the crank. So the next step is engine and box out and a full strip down to check for any wear and find the fault. It really doesn't sound like a big end to me, but we'll find out soon! I'll likely replace the turbos while it's out as preventative maintenance.

So it's going to be a bit of a baptism of fire into Phaeton ownership!

Here are some pics of the V10 opened up:


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Because all the ancillaries on the V10 are driven by gears from the crank there's probably quite a bit of scope for knocking from something other than the engine itself. From memory, the AC compressor is run from a giubo connected to the alternator so perhaps the rubber has perished...

I've got my fingers crossed for you, especially since I like seeing these cars being kept alive rather than being tossed on the scrap heap!

Harry


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## AJL44 (Mar 23, 2015)

Ceylon said:


> Does that also apply to the 6 speed like in mine? I'm going to change the oil in the box, had a look underneath and access isn't too bad.
> 
> I do really like the car, it has most options already and is lovely to drive.
> 
> ...


I was under the impression that all gear boxes had issues but it's apparently just the 5 speed which needs the more frequent fluid changes. Having said that it's probably a good idea to get it done with new filters and a flush.

Not sure how feasible retrofitting the solar sunroof is (I suppose anything can be done if you really want it) but it is likely to be a significant job. There is additional wiring and electrical contacts which to be fitted into the sunroof recess in the roof and you will likely need to change the overhead unit which has the rotary control for the sunroof on - the solar roof uses a different unit which omits the two buttons either side of the rotary control. They operate the retractable shade but the solar roof has a fixed shade which doesn't operate independently of the glass part. Finding the roof its self may not be easy either - the price from VW is likely huge, if they even have them any more.

Great to see a Phaeton being looked after properly.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Prince Ludwig said:


> Because all the ancillaries on the V10 are driven by gears from the crank there's probably quite a bit of scope for knocking from something other than the engine itself. From memory, the AC compressor is run from a giubo connected to the alternator so perhaps the rubber has perished...
> 
> I've got my fingers crossed for you, especially since I like seeing these cars being kept alive rather than being tossed on the scrap heap!
> 
> Harry


Cheers for the info, I did have a quick look at the alternator set up etc when I had the fuel filter housing and intake manifolds out. It all looks nicely engineered and seemed ok at a glance. I've had a look at the engine with the sump off and it all really looks like it has been ran low on oil at some point. The big ends are definitely knocking. I don't really want to fit a few crank and shells only to find the next point of wear from oil starvation, so I've sourced a replacement low mileage engine with good history to swap in instead. I'll swap my new camshafts and lifters over when they're both out, will be a much easier job than when the engine was in the bay! I'll likely rebuild and balance the turbos as all the parts are pretty standard and readily available. Probably fit new actuators or change the innards of mine as I don't want to make a habit of engine removal .

Rest assured, this car will definitely be getting fixed and not broken for parts! When it's mechanically sound I'll look into getting some bodywork done. Both sides could do with being blown over, the doors have oxidation under the paint make it bubble up in the usual places etc. 



AJL44 said:


> I was under the impression that all gear boxes had issues but it's apparently just the 5 speed which needs the more frequent fluid changes. Having said that it's probably a good idea to get it done with new filters and a flush.
> 
> Not sure how feasible retrofitting the solar sunroof is (I suppose anything can be done if you really want it) but it is likely to be a significant job. There is additional wiring and electrical contacts which to be fitted into the sunroof recess in the roof and you will likely need to change the overhead unit which has the rotary control for the sunroof on - the solar roof uses a different unit which omits the two buttons either side of the rotary control. They operate the retractable shade but the solar roof has a fixed shade which doesn't operate independently of the glass part. Finding the roof its self may not be easy either - the price from VW is likely huge, if they even have them any more.
> 
> Great to see a Phaeton being looked after properly.


I've had a look on Elsawin at the wiring side of the solar sunroof and it doesn't look too bad. I'll see if VW still carry them, if not, fingers crossed I can find one at a breakers and pull all the looms and modules I need. I like a good retrofit challenge . It'll be doable, but I imagine half the interior will have to come out in the process.


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

It's good to see a new owner diving in and not being scared off.

I'm sure it'll be one of the best once you've finished with it; Phaeton ownership is very rewarding when everything is working as it should be.


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

Whereabouts in the UK are you based?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

CallumCarr said:


> It's good to see a new owner diving in and not being scared off.
> 
> I'm sure it'll be one of the best once you've finished with it; Phaeton ownership is very rewarding when everything is working as it should be.





CallumCarr said:


> Whereabouts in the UK are you based?


Haha, cheers. I'm used to FD ownership, so this is about normal! 

I do love what I've seen of the Phaeton so far. My fiance isn't so keen as it's taking up most of my time in the evenings to fix.... I'm sure she'll be won over by the massage seats when it's all sorted .

I'm based in Somerset, near Cheddar.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Update time!

What a ball ache it is to remove the motor from a V10 Phaeton! I got it out over the weekend, it is hands down the most involved and overly complicated engine pull I've ever had to do.... But she's out!

Here is a shot of the front brakes. They're quite worn, below the legal acceptable thickness for a Phaeton and showing hairline cracks on the inside, the pads are also fairly shot. I get the impression this car has been ran on a budget for the last few years, quite a few areas need a bit of TLC and I've removed a good few cable ties and sourced replacement parts to get her restored back to good.










The pistons moved back in nicely and show no signs of corrosion, which is a plus. I had to suck some fluid from the reservoir after moving all 16 pots back in! I'll give the calipers a good scrub when the car is going back together. Under the grime the calipers are in good condition and should clean up well.

As I don't have a two-post or hydraulic lifting platform to hand...The best and safest way I could think of to remove a lump of this weight was to borrow a pallet truck and make up a wooden jig on the pallet to support the engine and box with 8 mounts to ensure the box can safely be separated on the pallet and lined up easy for re-assembly. Using a pallet truck keeps the weight low and is very stable compared to using a crane etc. The engine is also very tight in the bay, so precise control is needed to not catch or snag anything. 

I managed to keep the condenser core and AC pump connected so that I wouldn't have to drain the gas. VW will tell you that this isn't possible, well I can assure you that it is . It is a bit of a faff to achieve and you'll need to remove an engine mount, power steering line and aluminium charge pipe with minimal clearance to get it out. Expect a few cuts and grazes, but it's worth it. The front radiator frame/lock housing can carefully be separated from the condenser and it can be moved on the flexible lines out of the way. While we're on the topic of myth-busting, you also do not need to remove the driveshafts from the hubs or any connections from the hubs to remove the subframe. This removes the potential risk of damaging any rubber boots and saves the hassle of beating out the drive shafts (Not to mention they need a new bolt each time they're refitted). You also do not need to remove the calipers or drain the brake system. 

I was very relieved to see that the subframe and engine support frame are separate units on a Phaeton, that makes life a lot easier as with the subframe out of the way you can easily access the lower gearbox bolts and unbolt the flexplate from the torque converter. This will eliminate any risk of damaging the seals in the torque converter when separating the engine from the box.



















So there it is, the engine is out, now I need to move my new parts (Lifters, cams etc) over to the new block. After inspection, the turbo seals are passing quite a lot of oil (Common problem for these units I'm guessing after seeing three for sale with this issue?). This is likely how it ran into oil starvation in the first place I'd guess. I'll get these rebuilt to ensure this doesn't happen again. They have a tiny bit of in-out play, within tolerance and minimal side to side, so should rebuild fine with just a seal kit and rebalance.

I also noticed a power steering fluid leak where the lower hose joins to the cooler, luckily it was just a misshapen seal, that after 5 minutes in boiling water went back to the correct shape and now should seal. The sump and rocker covers also have leaks, not that we care as this engine is not being used going forward.

All the subframes and supports need a good clean due to the oil leaks, and in some places a bit of work to remove surface rust and paint with epoxy mastic to ensure longevity. I'll get this done while I'm waiting for parts for the turbos.

I'm looking forward to a week at work for a rest!


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## docwra (Aug 24, 2017)

In the nicest possible way, youre a nutter mate :laugh:

Absolutely amazing work, out of interest where can one source a replacement V10 engine these days?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

docwra said:


> In the nicest possible way, youre a nutter mate :laugh:
> 
> Absolutely amazing work, out of interest where can one source a replacement V10 engine these days?


Haha cheers. 

I got the replacement engine from a rear-ended swb at a breakers. The car had full vw service history and had only covered 73k. Struck a deal with the only bits missing being the turbos and injectors. Regretting not going for the turbos now!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

It's miserable in the UK at the moment, pretty much constant rain... Not ideal weather for the hobbyist driveway mechanic removing the rocker covers and swapping the camshafts so I've been getting on with other bits.

Had the cup holders apart as they were a bit sticky and didn't fully return to be flush with the centre console. After a good clean and stretching the return springs they now return quickly and smoothly . Also gave the interior a deep clean. This car has the sensitive leather option and I'm really happy with how the leather has come up after a deep clean. It feels softer and is a deep matt sort of finish now, looks nearly new, amazing condition for the age and mileage really, I'll get some pictures. I've been doing research looking for missing optional extras to fit and found out this car is an individual with the Lendinara wooden inlay and a few cool custom options and colours with the extended wood pack. I contacted VW and they gave me a full list as my option sticker is worn away in the boot and is missing from the service book. Are these located anywhere else on a Phaeton or is there just the two like on most VW's?

Few pics as everyone loves new parts:

Ridiculously large OE discs for the Brembo calipers:


















Replacement rebuilt and balanced turbos with new actuator innards etc:


















Also picked up a good used anti shudder valve as my drivers side one is shot, unable to calibrate or find its position correctly. Got a full set of filters and fluids for the whole car, adds up quick when there are two of most filters!

Done work on both wing mirrors. The passengers needed a new indicator led unit as the lens was smashed and the drivers had issues with the motor so that side I replace the whole mirror. They now both auto fold, adjust and dim as they should.

Started work on the subframe and radiator/bumper support frame. Giving it all a good scrub with Jizer to remove all the residue and grime from the oil leaks. I'll remove any surface rust with the angle grinder tonight and get these painted with epoxy.

Should have all I need to put it all back together now... Fingers crossed we get some better weather soon!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Awesome. 

Love that you are pulling a Phaeton engine, in a driveway, on blocks...


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> Awesome.
> 
> Love that you are pulling a Phaeton engine, in a driveway, on blocks...


Haha, got to be done! It actually worked quite well on the pallet truck, very stable and easy to lower and raise into place.

You can see the substantial oil leaks in this pic:










The passenger side fuel pump has a slight leak, so I'll be swapping that one out with the one from the other engine. Access is super easy with the motor out and it's coming off anyway to swap the camshafts.

This engine is massive, looks like an aircraft engine! I'm loving the tech on it, it's very well engineered and nice to work on. Quite easy to time up etc. I've pulled the Webasto parking heater for a service as I had to remove it from its mounts anyway to get the engine support frame to clear coming out forward. Looking forward to having a toasty car for the winter mornings .

Also, my driver's side dipped beam ballast needed replacing, so that's another easy job while the front end is apart.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Hot damn! I'm green with envy! You also appear to own the best Mazda ever made!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

An FD is the opposite of a Phaeton really haha. I've owned fd's for 11 odd years, but this ones the keeper, was my last full restoration project.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's the only Japanese car I've ever driven that felt like a real sports car. Light, nimble, fast as hell, and at the time dirt cheap for that sort of performance. I really wish I'd bought it in hindsight. The styling still looks very contemporary, too!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> That's the only Japanese car I've ever driven that felt like a real sports car. Light, nimble, fast as hell, and at the time dirt cheap for that sort of performance. I really wish I'd bought it in hindsight. The styling still looks very contemporary, too!


Yeah they're fun cars. A bit back to basics, no electronics or traction control etc, just good balanced handling, lightweight and quick. I do love the interior on those cars, quite different to the Phaeton! Should make good stablemates though, FD for when you want a fun drive, Phaeton for daily luxury motoring .


















Back to the Phaeton .

Made some progress on the engine, all the injectors have had new seals and are now fitted in the new block. I've also fitted the new lifters, camshaft and bearings into the passenger side bank. So just the driver's side to go and that'll be the block done. Hard to work around the rain at the moment, but the weather looks good Wednesday, so hopefully I'll get the engine all sorted Wednesday evening. Quite keen to get it back on the road now! Timing up the camshafts is a doddle with the engine out of the car, much easier to remove the compensating shafts etc. One of them took me 2 hours with the block in the car due to the minimal space available...Out the car it took about a minute with the slide hammer . 



















I've been giving the bay a good clean while I've got the access and fixing any early signs of corrosion. Everything metal and hard to access is getting a good dose of anti-corrosion spray before reassembly.

It was pretty grim in places, with a lot of plant debris etc.










Much better after a clean.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I remember the gear shift being very swift and the throttle being extremely responsive, and also the brakes were good if I remember correctly. Good to see the steering wheel on the correct side too!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

If I had my W12 out I would absolutely get rid of all the cats, do proper exhaust manifolds and either send the cams out for regrinds or possibly swap in some newer Bentley 'speed' cams if I could find measurements for them.

Of course engine out- I would have to address the trans in some manner- stick swap ideally, uprated if not swapped completely to 6-8 speed at worst.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> Good to see the steering wheel on the correct side too!




F that! I saw the pictures and thought- what kind of devil that must be!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> If I had my W12 out I would absolutely get rid of all the cats, do proper exhaust manifolds and either send the cams out for regrinds or possibly swap in some newer Bentley 'speed' cams if I could find measurements for them.
> 
> Of course engine out- I would have to address the trans in some manner- stick swap ideally, uprated if not swapped completely to 6-8 speed at worst.


Haha, for me the Phaeton is all about the daily luxury motoring. I like the fact it is a lazy auto and doesn't stink of fuel due to having no cats . I have seen a few clips of what they sound like unsilenced though and they do sound good... I am tempted to try and source a set of w12 tips, silencers and lower valance to swap onto my TDI. Looks much better.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

The new engine is now fully assembled and mated up to the box with the original loom and auxiliaries moved over as I know they all work. Slow progress due to the continual poor weather... The joys of working outside! But hopefully will get a dry evening soon to get it back in the bay. The engine was so heavy on the crane that if it was still for more than a couple of seconds the crane wheels would sink into the tarmac. It really is quite a lump to handle by yourself on a drive! 

Is there a nice way to run the starter to build oil pressure prior to starting on a Phaeton? Ideally, I'd rather not unplug the injectors or injector loom as it's much easier to assemble all those parts with the engine out if possible. Another option I can think of is to use the mityvac to hold the ASV's shut... But if anyone has a better idea, please let me know!

Sourced a good solar sunroof with the right colour shade. I'll start another thread for that retrofit once it's in and I've got the process and full requirements nailed :thumbup:.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Ceylon said:


> Is there a nice way to run the starter to build oil pressure prior to starting on a Phaeton? Ideally, I'd rather not unplug the injectors or injector loom as it's much easier to assemble all those parts with the engine out if possible. Another option I can think of is to use the mityvac to hold the ASV's shut... But if anyone has a better idea, please let me know!
> 
> Sourced a good solar sunroof with the right colour shade. I'll start another thread for that retrofit once it's in and I've got the process and full requirements nailed :thumbup:.


Good catch with that sunroof. It's too bad American Phaetons couldn't get the solar sunroof. 

Does the V10 also have two fuel pump relays? If so, remove them both and the engine will crank over without starting. If it's like the W12, you will have to turn the key back to "off" to stop it from trying to start. 

-Eric


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I had the solar sunroof in my old W8 and as nice as the concept is, I don't think it really made that much difference to the interior temperature of the car on a sunny day! I'm not surprised that it's a feature that hasn't been repeated on more recent models from VW AG.

Harry


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Prince Ludwig said:


> I had the solar sunroof in my old W8 and as nice as the concept is, I don't think it really made that much difference to the interior temperature of the car on a sunny day! I'm not surprised that it's a feature that hasn't been repeated on more recent models from VW AG.
> 
> Harry


I have it in two cars, a W8 and the P W12 and have compared it with cars without this feature now and then. I would describe the difference as getting into a hot car or a boiling hot car on a hot day. I would miss it as it helps to get a comfortable temperature quicker. 

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

ravenflies said:


> I have it in two cars, a W8 and the P W12 and have compared it with cars without this feature now and then. I would describe the difference as getting into a hot car or a boiling hot car on a hot day. I would miss it as it helps to get a comfortable temperature quicker.
> 
> Lennart
> 
> ...


Lennart,

Is the difference greater than the difference between leather seats and vinyl seats? My old Jag has black leather and it was always comfortable in the summer to sit on the seats.

-Eric


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Good catch with that sunroof. It's too bad American Phaetons couldn't get the solar sunroof.
> 
> Does the V10 also have two fuel pump relays? If so, remove them both and the engine will crank over without starting. If it's like the W12, you will have to turn the key back to "off" to stop it from trying to start.
> 
> -Eric


Cheers Eric, yeah, the v10 is the same, so that'll work and they're nice and easy to get to in the boot.

I want the solar roof as I'm a sucker for extras, got to have them all! That and I never really use a sunroof closed with the shade back, so won't miss it being transparent. If it reduces the interior temperatures a bit it'll be good for all the interior plastics, leather etc that age with the heat.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Ceylon said:


> Cheers Eric, yeah, the v10 is the same, so that'll work and they're nice and easy to get to in the boot.
> 
> I want the solar roof as I'm a sucker for extras, got to have them all! That and I never really use a sunroof closed with the shade back, so won't miss it being transparent. If it reduces the interior temperatures a bit it'll be good for all the interior plastics, leather etc that age with the heat.


I'd like to get all the goodies on mine also but alas, I'd probably have to go scrounging for them in Europe. There is probably an extra harness in the roof for the solar sunroof. I never open the shade either unless I am playing with it. I don't open the sunroof either, but have to have it. 

I didn't even consider the plastics. The beige sunroof knob on 7579 has bubbled paint. All of the beige paint on the rear roof light panel in 8486 was all bubbly from the Texas heat. I replaced the rear roof light panel with a better used one from Germany. The previous owner of 8486 lived in Texas so it got hot inside. 8486 also has cracked wood that I think was caused by the heat.

-Eric


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I wonder if there is a way to wire the solar sunroof to just feed the vehicle battery. 

You guys want goodies?

I just picked up a set of these-

NEW GENUINE VW PHAETON 02-10 FRONT BUMPER CHROME TRIM LEFT N/S RIGHT O/S SET 
www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/202015679777


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I'd like to get all the goodies on mine also but alas, I'd probably have to go scrounging for them in Europe. There is probably an extra harness in the roof for the solar sunroof. I never open the shade either unless I am playing with it. I don't open the sunroof either, but have to have it.
> 
> I didn't even consider the plastics. The beige sunroof knob on 7579 has bubbled paint. All of the beige paint on the rear roof light panel in 8486 was all bubbly from the Texas heat. I replaced the rear roof light panel with a better used one from Germany. The previous owner of 8486 lived in Texas so it got hot inside. 8486 also has cracked wood that I think was caused by the heat.
> 
> -Eric


This sunroof came from Germany. It wasn't that expensive either, about 200 euros shipped. There seems to be an abundance of used Phaeton parts on eBay. I've needed a few bits and not struggled to find any of them so far. Got to admit, with Phaeton's not being a common car I expected the opposite! I've still got a list of small trim pieces to source and a new B pillar vent as one of mine is slightly damaged. Getting it running is the priority at the moment though :laugh:.



PowerDubs said:


> I wonder if there is a way to wire the solar sunroof to just feed the vehicle battery.
> 
> You guys want goodies?
> 
> ...


There will be if you wanted to go aftermarket, there are lots of quite compact controllers/inverters for this use for camper vans etc. Would be quite nice to keep the batteries topped up. I'll likely hook mine up as per standard, we don't get too many really hot days here in the UK.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Ceylon said:


> This sunroof came from Germany. It wasn't that expensive either, about 200 euros shipped. There seems to be an abundance of used Phaeton parts on eBay. I've needed a few bits and not struggled to find any of them so far. Got to admit, with Phaeton's not being a common car I expected the opposite! I've still got a list of small trim pieces to source and a new B pillar vent as one of mine is slightly damaged. Getting it running is the priority at the moment though :laugh:.


Ah, yes. 

I have bought quite a lot of parts from Germany on eBay and one part that wasn't on eBay. I even bought a spare tire (tyre) well insert with tools for the Phaetons without a spare tire. I got a compressor from another German eBay seller. 

We also seem to have a lot of used Phaeton parts in the USA on eBay. Way more than I expected for sure. 

Some tiny parts were hard to find anywhere like the clips that hold the front seat back vinyl fabric to the bottoms of the front seats. I couldn't even find the part number. It's not on the part itself. I saw a video of a 2015 Phaeton and the seat backs looked the same so I think those clips were used until the bitter end. VW does sell a hardware kit but doesn't show those clips in it.

I never did find new ones but I bought a used seat back (from here in the US) with some good clips. 

I needed a rubber buffer under the hood (bonnet) for 7579 but a guy on eBay in Latvia started selling NOS Phaeton parts at inflated prices and he eventually had those for sale. They were actually reasonably priced. 

I use part numbers as eBay searches so I got notified that somebody had those buffers in his eBay store. 

I would be worried about the support system. The wiring loom that must be needed for the solar sunroof. 

I'd have to put the solar sunroof loom's part number in an eBay search and hope somebody was selling one somewhere in the world. 

If I took a European holiday, I could go to a dealer and buy new ROW-only parts. 

There are a bunch of ROW-only parts I would buy.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Ah, yes.
> 
> I have bought quite a lot of parts from Germany on eBay and one part that wasn't on eBay. I even bought a spare tire (tyre) well insert with tools for the Phaetons without a spare tire. I got a compressor from another German eBay seller.
> 
> ...


Yes the actual sunroof itself is just the panel and inverter which outputs to just a pair of cables (One of which is just an earth). From looking at Elsawin the wiring looks very simple at a glance. I'll make a post detailing what other looms etc I have to make up to make it all work. I'm hoping as mine is pretty highly spec'd that I won't need to upgrade any controllers etc.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Ceylon said:


> Yes the actual sunroof itself is just the panel and inverter which outputs to just a pair of cables (One of which is just an earth). From looking at Elsawin the wiring looks very simple at a glance. I'll make a post detailing what other looms etc I have to make up to make it all work. I'm hoping as mine is pretty highly spec'd that I won't need to upgrade any controllers etc.


This is from the first scan I did on my first Phaeton:

Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 B
Component: Dachmodul 0605 
Coding: 0000015 Shop #: WSC 98769 666 36180
VCID: 224BC45FFED9493159F-5122

2 Faults Found: 
00220 - Connection to Sunroof
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent 
00222 - Connection to Rain Sensor
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent


So, it appears the controller is there but you might need to re-code it for the solar sunroof.

Hopefully VCDS has coding helper for it. 

You can also check the controller list thread to see if anybody has a solar sunroof.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> This is from the first scan I did on my first Phaeton:
> 
> Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
> Part No: 3D0 907 135 B
> ...


I haven't looked at the coding yet to be honest. The coding for the solar panels will be in the HVAC system. There are differences in the solar roof that it doesn't have a roller blind motor, that may need to be coded out of the roof electrics. And maybe I'll need to source an interior light/switch panel without that button. I'll have a look when I'm next plugged into the car.

The loom is simple, just going to need to remove a lot of interior to get it fitted. I need an extra relay (79) in the driver's footwell for solar isolation. Otherwise, I've got the rest. It'll be a project to get sorted before the summer .

EDIT: Just got the relay on ebay for £5. Looks like it's a fairly generic one used on various VAG ABS systems etc. It sits in empty slot 4 in the footwell.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

The engine is fully dressed with all the new parts, everything has been cleaned and serviced. I'm amazed the EGR and ASV worked with the amount of deposits in the intake tract and manifolds. All clean now though .

I ended up swapping quite a lot more than originally planned due to damage to the exhaust manifold and egr cooler on the new block where the engine had fallen on its side at the breakers. Also replaced a few seals that had perished causing the PCV system to leak oil down the side of the block. All the wiring and sensors from the original block have been moved over as I know they work. I've tested the sensors to check they're within acceptable range etc so shouldn't be any nasty surprises. I've got a bit more painting and sanding to do on coolant pipes. Everything is getting painted to avoid corrosion while I've got the access. Weather looks good to refit on Saturday .

I've been trying to orient all the clamps and fixings to make them accessible when the engine is in the bay....Fingers crossed I shouldn't need to touch it for a while though!





































Think the fuel filters were due!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's lucky Michael is no longer with us, he would never allowed car pornography like this on the forum!!:laugh::laugh: You must have missed the memo that only licensed, certified, specially-trained VW technicians are allowed to do anything on a Phaeton other than check the oil!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> It's lucky Michael is no longer with us, he would never allowed car pornography like this on the forum!!:laugh::laugh: You must have missed the memo that only licensed, certified, specially-trained VW technicians are allowed to do anything on a Phaeton other than check the oil!


Haha, to be honest, they're actually quite nice to work on! The engine bay is a bit tight and everything is fairly complex.. But it's all nicely engineered and built to come apart unlike some cars I've worked on. There is no better way to get a good understanding of a car than to take it all to bits and put it back together. I know this motor inside out now . Not sure I would recommend trying to move a v10 around by yourself though, I did struggle a few times and had to stand on the back of the crane as a counter-weight when lowering the block into place on my "specialist VW v10 pallet"... Not to mention the crane started sinking into the tarmac if still for more than a few seconds, she's a weighty block compared to what I'm used to :laugh:.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's the same with Porsche. Tightly packaged, but everything is built to be dismantled and reassembled. My 951 is currently on jack stands while I change the power steering lines. The difficulty I always have is the denial phase at the beginning of the job, when it gradually dawns on me just how many unrelated parts are going to have to be removed to get to the one bolt I need....


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> It's lucky Michael is no longer with us, he would never allowed car pornography like this on the forum!!:laugh::laugh: You must have missed the memo that only licensed, certified, specially-trained VW technicians are allowed to do anything on a Phaeton other than check the oil!




I’ve been banned for saying less than that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

PowerDubs said:


> I’ve been banned for saying less than that.


Hahaha! I remember. I think I spoke strongly in favour of your reinstatement, if I remember correctly. I haven't been banned, but I have received more than one "infraction" for "disrespecting a moderator", which had me chuckling for days afterwards.


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## dimibo (Sep 2, 2018)

For brake discs on my V10 i used the ones from Audi RS4 B7, drilled, they are the same size and i only changed the bells, Audi bells are flat, Phaetons are not flat.
With removing the bells you could use any 365/34 disc with 10 holes, drilled or slotted, instead of original from VW.










































Also dismantle and clean all the pistons, 3 of them were stick.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Yeah I did look at the RS4 discs. I'm not a big fan of drilled discs as they are more prone to cracking. My bells and fixings were pretty grim so thought best just to go new.

I thought the price from vw wasn't too bad considering the size and two piece. They're half the price of the discs on the FD!

Normally I would rebuild the calipers with a seal kits and new bleed valves, but all the pistons moved back with ease and when I popped the dust boots off the pistons to check the piston faces they're literally like new. So for speed of getting it back on the road I'll likely leave them be. The rear brakes do need looking at as the handbrake binds on when sat for a while. The discs are pretty worn though so I'll start with new discs, pads and stronger handbrake return springs. Hopefully will get away with that!

The engine is back in the car now, so not far off going for a first start. It's just all the while I'm there jobs like servicing the Webasto Hester as it makes sense while I have the access. I did refit the motor with the lower airbox sections out of the car....now these won't fit in, doh! Looking at it I should be able to fit them through the headlight holes if I remove the wings.. fingers crossed!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I put Zimmerman rotors & TRW pads on mine last time, after years of using VW brakes. The rotors are holding up very well so far, and the TRW pads produce FAR less dust than the OE pads. The rotors, in particular, were significantly cheaper than VW.


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

invisiblewave said:


> I put Zimmerman rotors & TRW pads on mine last time, after years of using VW brakes. The rotors are holding up very well so far, and the TRW pads produce FAR less dust than the OE pads. The rotors, in particular, were significantly cheaper than VW.


I now use nothing but Zimmerman rotors on my 4 other VW's and have great success. (I haven't owned the Phaeton long enough for it to need brakes or rotors.) Be sure to bed (break-in) the new rotors per the little instruction sheet that comes with the rotors. The couple times early on that I did not break them in properly, I had the dreaded pulsing brake pedal within a few thousand miles. Now I break-in new rotors religiously.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Pulsing brake pedals are caused by uneven brake disc wear which is usually caused by excessive runout. Whenever you replace discs, make sure the wheel bearing surface is completely clean of rust and dirt once the old discs are off.

Harry


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Prince Ludwig said:


> Pulsing brake pedals are caused by uneven brake disc wear which is usually caused by excessive runout. Whenever you replace discs, make sure the wheel bearing surface is completely clean of rust and dirt once the old discs are off.
> 
> Harry


At least the floating discs on the 8 piston Brembo caliper setup are extremly sensitive to uneven hub surface. I had a 0,03 mm diff on the turn on one hub and that caused the disc to give pulsating brakes after 5000 km. 3 sets killed that way but the dealer took most of the cost as they ruled that diff out after the first set gone bad.

Lennart


Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk Pro


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Been away on holiday last week, good to have a break!

Did spend yesterday doing bits on the car though and it's nearly there now. Should only take a couple of hours to finish it off I'd think.

The engine went in with no dramas on the pallet truck, the EGR actuators cleared the front legs by literally a few millimetres, definitely would have got bent using a crane!










Finally back in place on her mounts:










The lower halves of the airboxes were refitted via the headlight openings with the wings partially unbolted to get the required clearance.

All the arches have been gone over with rust converter, epoxy and wax where needed. There are some fairly stupid locations for some lines, particularly power steering ones that just don't seem to make sense. If I've got time I might make up some new hard lines and relocate them. Not sure why VW thought to put them in corrosion hot spots when there is space to house them in the bay:










Gave the diesel heater a quick check-over as I've never tried to start it so it's an unknown. It did have a heater locked fault, which I cleared via adaption in VCDS, but I hadn't got around to testing it since to see if it would work. While it's out, seemed silly to not check it over! The pumps work, the glow plug works and it all seems good inside. It was a little coked up, but not too bad, it's clean now.















































So this is how the car sits currently. Left on the to-do list is connecting up the rear prop, clean/attach the front rad stack properly, crash support, bumper, brakes and small items like the top of the airboxes and air guides etc. Nearly there!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Did you change the DRL bulbs? Worth doing while you have easy access. Put the cheap ones in, they last longer.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> Did you change the DRL bulbs? Worth doing while you have easy access. Put the cheap ones in, they last longer.


I changed all the bulbs up front as preventative maintenance. Being an early car this one doesn't have the DRL's. I'll likely do a retrofit like in the below video at some point to update the look:






I did look at retrofitting the later DRL headlights, but I really like the quad projector look of the early lights so this seems the best way to go. Should be pretty simple compared to xenon retrofits etc.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The early cars had DRLs, but maybe not in the UK? Mine's an early 03/04 but has DRLs, they're the HID bulbs with the square ballast bit.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> The early cars had DRLs, but maybe not in the UK? Mine's an early 03/04 but has DRLs, they're the HID bulbs with the square ballast bit.


Interesting. I think mine only came on at dusk when set to auto...Although I haven't really had a chance to drive the car a great deal yet, so would need to double-check! My lower and high beams are xenon hid bulbs with ballasts as the car has the quad projector option.

I think the DRL retrofit updates the front end nicely.


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## Tedo (Apr 20, 2015)

Have you cleaned your calipers yet? I'm struggling a bit with mine. I think that corrosion is pushing this metal plate too much on the pads. I've barley fitted the pads back in. (used rubber mallet) I tried to scrape under the metallic plate but it didn't quite make a change. I couldn't unbolt the metallic plate either. 
Do you have any ideas what to do? Do you perhaps have similar problem?


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Unfortunately that's a standard problem with Brembo brakes. The bolt that holds the plate down is usually seized in place so the usual option is a full refurb.

Harry


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Tedo said:


> Have you cleaned your calipers yet? I'm struggling a bit with mine. I think that corrosion is pushing this metal plate too much on the pads. I've barley fitted the pads back in. (used rubber mallet) I tried to scrape under the metallic plate but it didn't quite make a change. I couldn't unbolt the metallic plate either.
> Do you have any ideas what to do? Do you perhaps have similar problem?


I'd try and get the bolt out and clean it up. I imagine it'd come with some heat and work. If you think the bolt might snap and don't want to risk it. You could shave a millimetre or so off the side of the metal backing on the pads if there is enough extra? I expect there is. An angle grinder with a flap disc would make short work of that. It's a bit of a bodge, but I can't see it doing any harm and would be a quick simple solution. Personally, I'd be getting that bolt out and cleaning it up.


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## ElSmoko (Feb 10, 2019)

My car is a UK 2008 and doesn't have the DRLs. I too would like to update to them as I think they look much more modern, but I don't really want to pay for new headlights just for the fun of it. It also annoys me that the front sidelights and indicators are the only non-LED or Xenon lights on the thing! Apart from full beam, which I don't count as I barely use them.

I was tempted to swap my full beam bulbs to LED, but I assume that will throw a code due to lower resistance?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You can buy replacement LEDs that will work. I did the mirrors to give more light outside the car in the winter. I prefer the old head & tail lights to the new designs. To me, the GP0 Phaeton looks more less dated than cars of a similar vintage.


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## Pheaton V8 Umea (May 25, 2018)

*Ideas how to convert to LED DRL on Dual Xenon headlights*

Greetings everyone ! I am also considering a LED DRL conversion. I have a set of dual xenon headllights that I will install soon on my -04. Any ideas on how to arrange the LED DRL as shown in the movie ? A dual mode white/orange led bulb wont do it, since there is a orange color filter in the headlight assembly. Not too happy to open up the headligh... Any ideas ?? Best Regards Jan


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

So I got this all buttoned up over the weekend. Ran the car over on the starter for about a minute before trying to start it to ensure the turbos and new cams, lifters etc were well lubricated. It started, but the same or a very similar knock/tick is still there that is in-time with engine revs :banghead:.

At this point, I'm a little confused. The only common items between the two blocks I can think of that could knock/tick are:
Ac compressor (Seems unlikely and didn't feel loose).
Injectors
Torque converter (Pretty sure it's not this either as they don't normally make this noise). The flex plate is torqued up to spec.
Timing - But I'm pretty confident this is correct as I used the correct timing tools and everything was done as per the VW procedure and torques and double/triple checked etc.
Lifters/Hydraulic tappets - These are new, but you never know..

If you have any other suggestions, let me know!

I'll check the injectors in VCDS and see if I can see any that are behaving oddly then pull the rocker covers off again and take a look... Pretty put out as I really thought this would be resolved now! I really hope the motor doesn't have to come out again!

To add insult to injury...The bonnet cable has broken at the latch, so to get it open again I'll have to make a tool and try and unlatch it from below...Which on the V10 is particularly hard as there is no space at all in front of the block... Not feeling the love for the Phaeton at the moment I must say!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Took a look at the injectors in VCDS a minute ago, bank one isn't looking healthy. Bank 2 is fine.

Bank one:










Bank two:


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

Ceylon said:


> Took a look at the injectors in VCDS a minute ago, bank one isn't looking healthy. Bank 2 is fine.
> 
> Bank one:
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear the trouble you’ve been having with your V10!

Hopefully this will lead you to the cause of the issue. 

Great work so far by the way!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

CallumCarr said:


> Sorry to hear the trouble you’ve been having with your V10!
> 
> Hopefully this will lead you to the cause of the issue.
> 
> Great work so far by the way!


Thanks Callum, hopefully will get to the bottom of it soon!

Here's a poor video of the noise it is making (Ignore the fact the fans are on high, it's just because the external air temp sensor is disconnected).


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

Hi Ceylon,

Not trying to tell you how to suck eggs as you are clearly far more knowledgeable and experienced in this than I am.

I was just talking to my dad who had something similar a number of years ago when rebuilding a straight six engine. His similar sound was caused by lack of lubrication to the tappets as he was recommended the wrong oil which wasn’t filling them properly. Once the wrong oil was removed and correct oil was added, he took the car around the block and it cleared.

Just a suggestion, but could it be that the tappets aren’t getting enough lubrication? Your video sounds like it’s coming from the top end.


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## ElSmoko (Feb 10, 2019)

Definitely sounds like top end tappety stuff, nothing sinister in the big end in my humble opinion. It actually sounds exactly like my old M5 used to, a problem I never actually got to the bottom of. I would initially suspect a flat lifter, as they don't always pump up properly. Did you soak them in oil for a day or two before installing them? It could be that there's a bit of grot in one of the oil channels to a lifter, so it's not seeing the flow/pressure it needs to fully pump up.

I still think you're a hero for even attempting this, I'm massively impressed by your commitment, especially on a UK driveway at this time of year. I really hope you can figure it out and enjoy the car soon.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Thanks for the replies guys. It does sound like top-end stuff, too slow for crank. The lifters were soaked prior to original fitment in the other block a month or so back, then swapped over to this block. But it's always possible one is duff or not bled properly.
The revs do occasionally stumble a bit and the car did fire up a cylinder down when I started it the other day. This could just be the fuel system hadn't primed itself properly yet though I suppose, it didn't do this yesterday. The MOT has expired while I've been fixing it. Maybe I'll just get the bonnet working, book it in for an MOT and give it a good run before taking anything else apart. I would like to re-set up those injectors with a dial test indicator though as they're not as balanced as I'd like. If I can't get them better I'll replace them. A least that's an easy in-bay job and it's the easier of the two banks too .

Oh, and the oil in the motor currently is Mobil super 3000 0w30 506.01.

On the plus side, considering everything that has been touched, there are no leaks or other issues yet, so I'm happy with that, got to take the good with the bad .


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Got some time to look at the car today and got the bonnet open. Turns out this isn't too bad of a job on a Phaeton once you've got your bearings. It's so packed in the V10 bay and the clearance is maybe 20mm from the radiator to the engine. However, with a very long screwdriver or 3 1/2" long socket extensions, you can poke the underside cam to release the catch from the underside. It's a bit fiddly to get in the right place, but works! I've fitted a new catch, cable and microswitch, so I shouldn't be experiencing any more bonnet catch issues! After a good fiddle, the bonnet now closes nicely and with much less force than before.

Got the front end more or less back together. Ran out of power steering fluid bleeding the system. I didn't expect it to need more than 2L! I'll order some more and finish it off next week.

Also, VCDS reckons my V55 pump on the Auxilary heater has failed. It did work when I bench tested it, but now it appears to do nothing. A new one is on the way. I also ordered a Webasto telestart and remote from an a6 that should be compatible with the Phaeton. I'm going to mod the auxiliary heater to also function as a parking heater. Probably not going to fit the engine/rad isolation valve as I'd rather it warmed the engine as well as the cabin. I'll mainly want it to defrost the car on cold mornings.










As I couldn't go any further without the PS fluid, I got on with fitting the new slip ring, steering control module, heated steering wheel and 6 button cruise upgrade. Nice to do a straightforward quick retrofit as the rest of this car has been such a pain .




























I ran the car at idle for maybe 30 minutes today, it's still tapping. When I've got the PS fluid I'll give it a drive and see if it goes quiet. It did stumble once briefly when idling, reporting a misfire in cyl5. The rest of the time it was smooth, no excessive smoke etc, just that tap!






Fingers crossed it's just a lifter that needs a good bleed. I'm tempted to try some of the Liquimoly hydraulic lifter additive, see if that cleans it out and silences the tick.


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## dimibo (Sep 2, 2018)

How is the car now?
Mine V10 starts loosing power more and more frequently, still stop-start cycles solve the problem, but i do not know for how long, so maybe i will going to your road with engine out. I suspect the turbocharger controllers, as they appear in VCDS as faulty, but after restart (stop-start) the errors disappear and the car runs fine.

Have you install paddle shifters?


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## Gorea4ii (Jan 11, 2016)

dimibo said:


> How is the car now?
> Mine V10 starts loosing power more and more frequently, still stop-start cycles solve the problem, but i do not know for how long, so maybe i will going to your road with engine out. I suspect the turbocharger controllers, as they appear in VCDS as faulty, but after restart (stop-start) the errors disappear and the car runs fine.
> 
> Have you install paddle shifters?


I have had the same issue in my v10, replaced 20euro worm gear in turbo actuator without engine out.


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## dimibo (Sep 2, 2018)

Gorea4ii said:


> I have had the same issue in my v10, replaced 20euro worm gear in turbo actuator without engine out.


How you got access to both of them?


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## Gorea4ii (Jan 11, 2016)

I had an issue with my left(driver) side turbo actuator that can be accessed without disasembeling of any other part, just 10mm wrench. Right side turbo actuator can be accessed with partually unbolted engine subframe(steal), so subframe stays bolted only on 1 front left bolt and a bush of that bolted corner gives to your subframe some flexibility so subframe can be pulled down what gives you some room to access right side turbo actuator to be unbolted.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Both actuators are swappable within the bay. For the Drivers side on a RHD car you want to disconnect the inner driveshaft from the flange and pop it to one side. It's a bit of a fiddle, but doable within 30 minutes. The passenger side is easy, lots of space.

Just be sure you get the right codes on the actuators, lots of refurb places confuse them with the touareg ones.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Coming to the end of the other projects I've been working on (One of which being fixing another V10 Phaeton with camshaft failure!) so should be back on this one again soon. The purchase of another car negated the urgency to get this one operational so soon, so I can take my time and do a more thorough job now. As such, I'm going to be pulling the engine again for a ground-up, heads off, injectors serviced, all bearings replaced etc rebuild to ensure it's all as new.

I've done a bunch of other bits to the car since I last updated this, it has all new rear brakes, calipers, parking brake cables and other misc bits fitted that I cannot even remember as it was all last year!

I picked up the genuine VAG tools for the AJS/AYH V10 as all the aftermarket tools available have poor fitment into the cylinder head holes and camshaft ends. I want the timing to be perfect. I also found a genuine VAG crank lock tool that should make pre-loading the gear system easier.



















Touched the car for the first time in ages yesterday to swap out the rear lights with the facelift lights, they look much better in my opinion!




























I've sourced the correct brake booster, master cylinder, brake-related sensors, valves & potentiometer, radar, steering wheel controls, radar bumper vents & brake booster control module to retrofit ADR. Doesn't look too bad to retrofit, the wiring and coding looks pretty straightforward. Interesting fact, despite the large difference in the calipers fitted to Phaetons, they share the same brake master cylinder... No wonder the V10 & W12 pedal feel isn't ideal. I was quite surprised when I was checked the parts diagrams!

Toying with the idea of retrofitting kessy, but that'll be done later, likely when I retrofit the solar sunroof as they both require quite a bit of interior disassembly (I'm concentrating on front end stuff first). I think I've convinced myself I need it as it's the only option this car will be missing to have a full set...

I've also been buying all the Bentley parts I can find that fit to make the interior a bit more classy.



















So far I've got the below Bentley parts to fit:
All window switches
Mirror switch
Lighter
Stalks with paddle shift levers
Steering column adjuster
Bonnet release
Interior lights
Thumbwheels for ADR and right scroll on steering wheel controls

As if this car doesn't need enough work, it's also decided to drop communication to the rear left door control module, so I need to look at that before the car can go back on the road. Thw wiring looks pretty simple, should be able to wire the unlock motor direct with the door card removed.

Many pics to follow, I'll make a guide for the retrofits not already documented :thumbup:.


----------



## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Swapped out a few bits after work today. Thanks goes to Josh for the tip about the Bentley parts :thumbup:.

Bentley steering column switch. I moved just the 4-way button over as I didn't want the silver bezel and I prefer the button with the logo that comes on the Phaeton than the blank Bentley one.










Bentley stalks and paddle shifters:



















Bentley individual dome lights lenses. I wasn't sure on these to begin with...But after seeing them in person they definitely look better to me!




























All the Bentley parts add that little extra touch of class to the interior.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Bentley thumbwheels and ADR controls in:










Drivers door switches. These were a bit of a faff to get to fit, about an hour of gentle filing to make them clear with much test fitting! I'm pleased with the end result though, they look and feel much better than the oem switches.










They light up white, match nicely with our instrument cluster:










Interior is coming together now, other than needing a good clean!










Phaetons really do seem to age well, not many car seats look this good after covering 174k miles. I'll get the dents out of the leather with some heat then they could pass for an eighth of that mileage, crazy!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Later spec knobs for the centre console which match in nicely with the Bentley parts. They do pull off, but to not risk damaging the chrome I disassembled from the rear to ensure nothing got damaged. They were on there very tight.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

The original grey knobs came off much easier than the chrome ones and as expected, they are a straight swap with the later knobs.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

I'm slowly sourcing all the Phaeton individual options. Got a pair of anthracite rear electric seat trays coming .

I'm getting the solar sunroof retrofit finished up, the wiring and coding turned out to be pretty simple in the end. As the headliner had to be dropped anyway...I sourced an Alcantara headliner, pillars, twin mirror sun visors etc... The only Alcantara part I'm waiting on is a new solar sunroof shade from VW and they're open again next week, so hopefully shouldn't be too long on that one.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Interesting! Keep us updated.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Going all out! Very nice and great project! :thumbup:


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> Interesting! Keep us updated.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Will do Josh. I swapped the Bentley interior light bezels back for the Phaeton ones, they do look better flush :thumbup:. I'm going to need two more Bentley lenses for the sun visor lights now .



Melvivio said:


> Going all out! Very nice and great project! :thumbup:


Thanks! I plan on keeping the car for a good while, so I may as well get all the options I want fitted before it's on the road. Once the car is running it'll be my primary car and harder to take off the road for long periods of time! I don't think there are many options left that I'm missing... It doesn't have keyless entry or start, otherwise, I think it's got or will have all the options... Anyone got a link to the individual brochure so I can see a complete options list?


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## dimibo (Sep 2, 2018)

Great job you are doing.


Ceylon said:


> ...
> Bentley stalks and paddle shifters:
> ...


Did you have working paddle shifters? What codding you use?

I also retrofit paddle shifters, tried a lot of codding, but did not succeed to put them to work.

I managed to blown my V10 engine :banghead: a month ago. I am going to drop the engine to see the damages. Maybe it is just turbochargers damaged, but I cannot say. Light blue smoke at the beginning, before blowing, after that the engine stops, then start it again and a lot of light gray smoke behind, like a deep, deep fog, then drove the car 1 km to my home and now preparing for big expanses  and then i will start with dismantling.
I saw that you removed the engine with wood palette and palette lifter, does the wood on palettes are OK to handle the 600 kg engine+transmission?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

dimibo said:


> Great job you are doing.
> 
> Did you have working paddle shifters? What codding you use?
> 
> ...


The shifters work when fitted in sport mode with no coding. If you want it to work in drive you have to change the coding on the gearbox. I'll check what I used and you need the shop code also.. I can't remember offhand, it's in the thread on retrofitting paddle shifters Michael posted a few years back and also in the FAQ :thumbup:.

Lots of blue smoke could well be turbo seals... Just don't let it run low on oil!

A pallet truck will take 2000kg no problem.. Easy way to remove the v10. I've done it 4 times on different Phaetons now, it works great. Don't try and use a crane, you'll damage the EGR coolers for sure.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

dimibo said:


> Great job you are doing.
> 
> Did you have working paddle shifters? What codding you use?
> 
> I also retrofit paddle shifters, tried a lot of codding, but did not succeed to put them to work.




https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1609467


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## dimibo (Sep 2, 2018)

PowerDubs said:


> https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1609467


Yes, this was the first point to start, but dod not work on V10 and 09F gearbox.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

dimibo said:


> Yes, this was the first point to start, but dod not work on V10 and 09F gearbox.


Change the same bit as on the other transmissions and use shop code 01065, I should work for you. IIRC it was the 4th bit from the right, it's in that thread.


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## Peter Wallis (May 8, 2020)

Ceylon, my phaeton is producing the same engine noise like yours after en engine,tandem pumps, 10 pd unit, 2 egr valve change.....
Have you find the cure for yours? I'm starting to believe, that Im having some kind of curse...


Or if anyone has something, im all ears


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Peter Wallis said:


> Ceylon, my phaeton is producing the same engine noise like yours after en engine,tandem pumps, 10 pd unit, 2 egr valve change.....
> Have you find the cure for yours? I'm starting to believe, that Im having some kind of curse...
> 
> 
> Or if anyone has something, im all ears


God a video of yours? What original parts are common between the two engines?


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## Peter Wallis (May 8, 2020)

https://youtu.be/8q7zZaK6EPA

Nothing. Everything are separate, nothing has been used from the old one.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Peter Wallis said:


> https://youtu.be/8q7zZaK6EPA
> 
> Nothing. Everything are separate, nothing has been used from the old one.


Ok, do another video with the bonnet open. Then disconnect the big intake pipes from the asv's one at a time.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Ceylon said:


> I don't think there are many options left that I'm missing... It doesn't have keyless entry or start, otherwise, I think it's got or will have all the options... Anyone got a link to the individual brochure so I can see a complete options list?




I'm not convinced you need the keyless entry to install and operate a keyless start button to start the car.

The car still recognizes and unlocks the car when you push the remote button and enter. You just aren't opening it with a handle touch.

The start push button is simply taking the place of the ign key slot '1st and 2nd poistions'.

The only thing I can see that you may run into is to put the key into the dash- leave it there for coil interaction, and then use the push to start to wake car, unlock column, push to start, turn off, etc.



As far as options on euro models there are a lot. Solar sunroof, all sorts of various leather wrapped and stitched parts, various wood upgrade colors, wood with inlay designs, door sills that say individual, of course the refrigerator, rear seat work table desk option, TV in the front dash, DVD in headrests for the rear passengers,


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## Peter Wallis (May 8, 2020)

https://youtu.be/9ZPQ7lvgwxs

There you go.

Strange, because the noise is very discreet. Acceleration is a bit harsh, not as smooth as it should be.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

So it gets louder when that pipe is removed from the asv going to bank 1 by the sound of it? It sounds like a worn cam/lifters from that video.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> I'm not convinced you need the keyless entry to install and operate a keyless start button to start the car.
> 
> The car still recognizes and unlocks the car when you push the remote button and enter. You just aren't opening it with a handle touch.
> 
> ...


Interesting! As it's an easy retrofit maybe I'll give the button a go . I've got most of the bits needed for keyless entry, just missing the handles themselves. I bought boxes of parts from Poland and got quite a lot of the system by chance. 

I've got a lot of those options. I wish the leather dash was available in rhd. I'll likely have to go custom to replicate that. I've got the rear work tables, rear TV's, fridge & solar roof. The wood in mine is the standard eucalyptus but with the lendinara inlay and extended wood pack. The alcantara head liner is going on next week . Also got some phaeton exclusive light up door sills to try that look quite cool.


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## Peter Wallis (May 8, 2020)

Ceylon said:


> So it gets louder when that pipe is removed from the asv going to bank 1 by the sound of it? It sounds like a worn cam/lifters from that video.


They are both new...

Yes the bank 1 is the bad, maybe lifters, because the camshaft are 100% new..

Which problem caused your's to make the knocking sound?


----------



## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Peter Wallis said:


> They are both new...
> 
> Yes the bank 1 is the bad, maybe lifters, because the camshaft are 100% new..
> 
> Which problem caused your's to make the knocking sound?


Yes you'd normally replace the lifters/hydraulic tappets at the same time as the camshafts. How did the lifters look when you had the cams out? Nice and flat or bevelled/marked?

Mine was originally worn cams. Then when rebuilt the tick was a faulty lifter that wouldn't pump up so stayed flat causing a tapping noise.


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## Peter Wallis (May 8, 2020)

Ceylon said:


> Yes you'd normally replace the lifters/hydraulic tappets at the same time as the camshafts. How did the lifters look when you had the cams out? Nice and flat or bevelled/marked?
> 
> Mine was originally worn cams. Then when rebuilt the tick was a faulty lifter that wouldn't pump up so stayed flat causing a tapping noise.


They were flat, but probably 1 or 2 lifter is bad, because when I rev it, and after I lift up the throttle I can clearly hear a ticking noise.
I'm gonna rebuild the tranny (it has 405.000 km and has never been rebuilt, only oil+filter change) and I'm gonna change all of it if the engine is already down.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Ceylon said:


> Interesting! As it's an easy retrofit maybe I'll give the button a go . I've got most of the bits needed for keyless entry, just missing the handles themselves. I bought boxes of parts from Poland and got quite a lot of the system by chance.
> 
> I've got a lot of those options. I wish the leather dash was available in rhd. I'll likely have to go custom to replicate that. I've got the rear work tables, rear TV's, fridge & solar roof. The wood in mine is the standard eucalyptus but with the lendinara inlay and extended wood pack. The alcantara head liner is going on next week . Also got some phaeton exclusive light up door sills to try that look quite cool.




You have the rear work tables??? I believe that will be the first ever seen here in real life!! Pics please.

If the dash visor is the same for rhd- you can at least swap to the leather stitched part there- I did, and love it.

You have inlay in the wood? Lots of pics of that then please...


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> You have the rear work tables??? I believe that will be the first ever seen here in real life!! Pics please.
> 
> If the dash visor is the same for rhd- you can at least swap to the leather stitched part there- I did, and love it.
> 
> You have inlay in the wood? Lots of pics of that then please...


Yes I have a pair of anthracite rear work tables to fit. Arrived this week . The dash visor is unfortunately also lhd specific. It is everso slightly not symmetrical and they're not interchangable. I do own a lhd leather one though. I bought it as a sample to give to whoever I take the car to to have the dash and door tops redone in leather so they can match the stitching size etc exactly.

I'll get you pics of the inlay. You can sort of see it in my previous interior and window switch pictures. It's also on the centre vent, but it's quite subtle and hard to see unless in person.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Where did you find the tables? I would *LOVE* to have a set, so dibs if you ever break the car. 


I have to admit- I am motivated by both you and Jussi being active here on the forum and playing with the cars.

So much so, I think I will head down to my garage now and pull the front bumper off my car. 

I've had a set of the euro front bumper strips waiting to install. I also have a non-functional front parking sensor I might as well look at while I am in there.

Anyone know if I can test them with a meter to figure out which one?


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

PowerDubs said:


> I also have a non-functional front parking sensor I might as well look at while I am in there.
> 
> Anyone know if I can test them with a meter to figure out which one?


It's been a long time since I worked on the parking sensors but I believe there are MVBs in that controller that show you the measured distance for each sensor individually.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Thank you


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> Where did you find the tables? I would *LOVE* to have a set, so dibs if you ever break the car.
> 
> 
> I have to admit- I am motivated by both you and Jussi being active here on the forum and playing with the cars.
> ...


Good to hear it 

Here's a couple of inlay pictures for you. Ignore the state of the interior, the car needs a really good clean and is currently full of parts to fit .


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Shade motor and running gear removed, rain tray end caps swapped to solar roof varient.










Solar power pickups fitted to the end of the runners in the original frame. I decided against swapping frames as I know mine works well and was worried the one that came with the solar roof might have been buckled slightly in the post as they're quite fragile. Also removing the frame is quite risky due to the size and sharp edges... One wrong move and you'd have a nasty snag in your leathers!










All in.



















Still waiting on the sunroof shade, but that can be fitted after the headliner.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That looks like an awful lot of work, but the result looks pretty spectacular.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Somebody has been busy!! 

Great job!

I've tossed around the idea of the solar sunroof for years..just can't motivate myself.

But that fuzzy headliner is wonderful!!

Did your car come with the headrest tv or did you install them?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> That looks like an awful lot of work, but the result looks pretty spectacular.


Yeah I'm pretty pleased with it. It's quite hard to capture, the alcantara looks much better in person!



PowerDubs said:


> Somebody has been busy!!
> 
> Great job!
> 
> ...


It's not too bad to fit, doable in a day for sure . The wiring splices into the fan circuit via a solar isolation relay down in the footwell. Then it's just recoding the roof electrics with +8 in the coding to move from a glass roof to solar. The reason the interior light is hanging from the electrics is I'm waiting for a solar specific interior light without the shade controls, should arrive this week.. It also has the garage door opener, can't resist extra options .

The car came from factory with the TV's spec'd. So I haven't looked into retrofitting them. Wouldn't think they're too bad to fit though. If you need any pics I can get you some :thumbup:.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I'd do the solar roof of I already had the headliner out- but it would be impossible to ship a headliner overseas and expect it to arrive undamaged.

Heck- I was worried when I had an entire 4-sitzer lang wood set shipped from Germany.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> I'd do the solar roof of I already had the headliner out- but it would be impossible to ship a headliner overseas and expect it to arrive undamaged.
> 
> Heck- I was worried when I had an entire 4-sitzer lang wood set shipped from Germany.


The headliner is well designed and really not easy to damage removing compared to most headliners. I had mine out in around 30 minutes being careful. The shade is reusable also.

My headliner set was shipped to me from Poland as you'd never find an alcantara one for sale in the UK. So it went overseas, it's fine if packaged well . I was quite surprised to find one for sale, I haven't seen any others in grey, only one beige set.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Double post.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Keeping true to the theme, compression testing on the V10 is also a ball ache, requiring removal of the oil filter housing, inlet manifolds, intake pipework, intake guides, EGR's, ASV's, Fuel filter housing, fuel feed/return pipes, various coolant pipes and draining the coolant...

That leaves you with this, you can now see the glowplugs and looms, huzzah!










I'll be making up new glowplug looms as these ones are pretty crispy in places. Obviously new glow plugs will also be fitted as I don't intend to be coming back here in a hurry, let alone in the cold of winter like when they normally play up! I also have new inlet gaskets and all the various seals for reassembly. As a precaution, I'm also replacing all 40 o-rings on the fuel rails while I'm in here.



















Grubby inlet manifolds with some carbon build-up. Now ideally I'd send these off for media blasting to make them less maintenance to keep clean, but as everywhere is closed.. Oven cleaner will have to do! Question is.....To crinkle paint or not to crinkle paint? 

I didn't get around to comp testing as I had to get some other non car related stuff done, figures to come tomorrow . I'm expecting a low figure somewhere in bank one.


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Unless you're going for that Maranello look, I would suggest non crinkle :laugh:


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Melvivio said:


> Unless you're going for that Maranello look, I would suggest non crinkle :laugh:


Haha, yeah probably best just to clean it up. I've used it on some previous JDM cars I've owned, this was one RX-7 UIM, TB & turbo

WP_20140624_18_52_40_Pro by Tom Kinsman, on Flickr

WP_20140630_18_02_35_Pro by Tom Kinsman, on Flickr

Can't beat a bit of wrinkle paint if you want a premium look . I think if the comp results mean I have to pull the heads off I'll go to town on it, painting and plating everything, but if not...She can stay as she is.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

So as expected, cylinder 5 was down on compression. There is also diesel in the oil in the sump, enough that it stinks, so further investigation is required!

Shes out....Again! Next step, full strip down and heads off :thumbup:.


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Brave and mighty impressive :thumbup: Cool your sharing the pictures!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Hope you have a mate- and beers!! I'd be there to lend a hand- and beers if I was wherever you are at!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Melvivio said:


> Brave and mighty impressive :thumbup: Cool your sharing the pictures!


Thanks!



PowerDubs said:


> Hope you have a mate- and beers!! I'd be there to lend a hand- and beers if I was wherever you are at!


Ah I wish I did, the v10 is a big lump to lug about! The UK is in lockdown at the moment, so I cannot see anyone outside of my household, it's solo work for the foreseeable! I do have plenty of beer to hand though, so no issues there .

I've bought a shift plate with the engine start button, so we can test your theory about whether it requires the rest of the keyless system of not . 

The oven cleaner did quite a good job on the inlets. I'll give them one more soaking to remove the final deposits.



















The only annoyance is I got some on the exterior of the pipes without noticing and it has etched the surface... So I'll either need to paint the manifolds or clean them up with a scotch pad or brass wheel on the grinder.

All these EGR deposits and build up got me thinking, it's even thick on the back of the inlet valves which must affect performance, hateful stuff. So after a little thinking, the EGR is going... Including the coolers. If you want to do this properly then you can only do it with the engine out, so now is the time to get it done! 

I've sourced some Touareg v10 manifolds on ebay as they do not have the egr cooler return pipes (Touareg's have no EGR coolers on the v10) like the Phaeton does. Normally I'd just cut off the pipe and tig up the hole, but my welders are currently in storage until I've built my garage, so this is a much simpler solution, sometimes you can't beat bolt-on parts .

Touareg V10 manifold:










Phaeton V10 manifold:










For the actual intake EGR side of things I've bought the off the shelf kit from Darkside performance. I don't think polished aluminium will go too well in the bay, so I'll likely paint these black prior to fitting to make it look a bit more oem.










The EGR will be coded out at ECU level so that it doesn't throw codes when it notices the change in flow. With all those valves, coolers, vacuum hoses, solenoids and extra pipework gone it should halve the time to do most minor engine work, everything on the V10 seems to start with ASV and EGR removal :laugh:.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Shade arrived, must have been sat on a shelf in Germany for a while judging by the dust! Can't imagine they sell many replacement alcantara Phaeton sunroof shades, I was half expecting it to be nla.










And fitted:










The interior is pretty much as I want it now.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Fantastic!!!


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## Peter Wallis (May 8, 2020)

this is amazing! I am quite jealous of you, about having such patience for servicing your V10. It's really a pain in the ass....


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Done a little bit on the motor. I'm waiting for parts before tearing the rest down.

Turbos, exhaust manifolds and egr coolers removed:



















Emptied the V - Believe it or not, this is after a good bit of cleaning, much more cleaning and scrubbing required! That can wait until the heads are off.










Replacement EGR intake pipes arrived:










Parts should arrive from VW this week. They must think I'm mad the number of engine parts I've ordered for this build :laugh:.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

What is the sprocket between the cyl banks for? I know nothing about oil burners.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> What is the sprocket between the cyl banks for? I know nothing about oil burners.


That's the direct drive for the alternator, as this engine has no belts and everything is on gears driven off the crank :thumbup:.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Interesting. Learned something new. Thanks!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

That's what initially drew me to the V10, it's a very cool engine, lots of engineering in there!


I spent an hour on the motor after work yesterday, removing the rockers, camshaft, bearings, caps, hydraulic lifters, injectors, top-end gears, compensating piston, link plates, cam sensor (Basically all parts from bank 1), so that head is ready to be pulled when the new gaskets arrive. I'll do bank 2 after work tonight. The weather is so good at the moment for this kind of work!


After dissecting 4 interior lights I finally have a scratch and bubble-free solar roof version with all the options like garage door opener etc. Headliner and solar roof swap complete .


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## Peter Wallis (May 8, 2020)

Ceylon, how do you intend to solve your low compression problem?

New piston rings?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Peter Wallis said:


> Ceylon, how do you intend to solve your low compression problem?
> 
> New piston rings?


I've torn the block down today, it looks like cylinder 5 is worn. Now I could fit a new lining, new rings and go that route. But I have a few of these engines knocking about, so I'll split a spare down to check the bottom end over and likely will swap bottom ends.

Heads bare:




















Heads are good, all valves seat nicely:















































Cylinder 5 showing wear to the lining:



















Tomorrow I'll pull the head off one of my spare blocks and check that one over, fingers crossed with a better result! Looks like the water pump cover had been leaking on this block, albeit slowly, I'll reseal that on whichever block I use as a precaution with some decent Loctite to ensure it doesn't leak again. Note the sexy genuine VAG crank lock tool, scored that on eBay last year, makes the timing much easier and more accurate!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Yea- that crank tool is rad!

Those are the weirdest pistons I've ever seen on a VW. Weirdest overall is probably the oval ones from Honda's motorcycle.

Hard to tell the severity of the scoring from the pic, can you feel it much? Might get away with a hone. Of course check the piston skirt too eh?

Good job. Keep it up. You need a garage!


----------



## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Again, awesome to see. Another magnificent quote: "I have a few of these engines knocking about, so I'll split a spare down to check.." :laugh:
The scoring is always the result, most likely not the cause. Unsure, do these cylinders have nikasil coating as well? If so @Josh honing would not improve the situation. 
Also by going down the route of honing, you'll may need a oversized piston, which might be hard to get and not worth the expense. 

If you were set out to save this crankcase, taking measurements is the first step. See what is worn that caused the scoring.
Is the cylinder still round and within tolerance? no need to replace, just refurbish. 
Is the piston up to specifications? Or has it been rubbing? If not, no need to replace. 
Are the piston rings possibly worn? 

However, all this is quite a lot of effort, especially if there is a spare sitting in the yard. 

And yes, I agree, you need a shop haha 

Regarding piston shape: This is quite normal for a diesel engine, but there are a few interesting details. 
First, this engine only has two valves. This is quite old fashioned, but robust. The 4valves in petrol engines help to create a whirl to mix the fuel with air. 
The bowl with the point helps mix the diesel with air, aiding the combustion process. With other indirectly injected diesel engines, there is often a whirl chamber, created in the cylinder head. 
This is absent here, therefore diesel is directly injected in the chamber, on the piston to create a mixture but also provide cooling to the piston. Nice little benefit. 
They have made this an interference engine. In old diesels the valves would never hit the pistons. As they made the butterfly cut-outs, it shows clearances are tight. Again, needed because of the lack of a whirl chamber and because we want the mixture to self ignite.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> Yea- that crank tool is rad!
> 
> Those are the weirdest pistons I've ever seen on a VW. Weirdest overall is probably the oval ones from Honda's motorcycle.
> 
> ...


Thanks Josh. Yes it's quite a ridge that you can feel, these cylinders are not fixable by honing as Mevivio says below they've got a nikasil coating, but they can be sleeved by a machine shop.



Melvivio said:


> Again, awesome to see. Another magnificent quote: "I have a few of these engines knocking about, so I'll split a spare down to check.." :laugh:
> The scoring is always the result, most likely not the cause. Unsure, do these cylinders have nikasil coating as well? If so @Josh honing would not improve the situation.
> Also by going down the route of honing, you'll may need a oversized piston, which might be hard to get and not worth the expense.
> 
> ...


Not sure if you can see in the pictures, but the cylinder is worn oval and is out of the manufacturer's tolerance for diameter. It explains the fuel in the oil and the pressurized crankcase when running. An injector seal had also failed.

I split down two of my spare V10's to see which was best as the doner block, one also was showing early signs of wear in cylinder 10, slight scoring, but still within spec. The other was perfect, all cylinders are in great shape and within tolerance, so I'll be using this block as my base.

I'll take some pictures tomorrow. I now need to decide which of the 6 heads I want to use :laugh:.

A large garage build is planned, but likely not until next year .


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## richmondvatdi (May 17, 2003)

This is now officially my favorite thread. opcorn:


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## Hellgate (Dec 29, 2016)

richmondvatdi said:


> This is now officially my favorite thread. opcorn:


I agree!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Haha, cheers guys.

Didn't get much time to throw at the car today but I started cleaning up the new bottom end, still a ways to go. Hopefully the rest of the parts will arrive later this week! I'll fit the new heads before swapping the motors over as the 4 rear smaller head bolts are pretty hard to access when the gearbox is fitted.


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## dimibo (Sep 2, 2018)

I am going on your way of engine out, maybe in next 2-3 weeks.
I have ordered those parts and i am going to make a cart upper part of the pictures and pallet lifter for the bottom  
If someone wants the project files i could send them.
up to now it cost me around 300 Eur.
Steel S235 or S255 for the frames and C45-H9 for the supports.
It will then be easy to disconnect the engine and the transmission


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Selected the best of the 6 heads and cleaned them ready for fitting. Still waiting on parts from vw... Fingers crossed they'll be ready soon.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

The spare blocks and clean heads look nice but did you check them for warping?

Every VW 4-cylinder head I have taken to a machine shop needed truing.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> The spare blocks and clean heads look nice but did you check them for warping?
> 
> Every VW 4-cylinder head I have taken to a machine shop needed truing.


Yeah I have, they're all perfectly true. Being an aluminium head on an aluminium block likely helps prevent that, keeping the expansion rates the same etc. The V10 also is very thermally efficient and runs cool :thumbup:.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Parts for a complete top end overhaul have arrived. Giacomo at my local VW has been super helpful, dealing with longs lists of part numbers I'd like quoting for . Very friendly dealership .










Few bits not pictured... New camshafts, shells, and a few other small bits I'll snap during installation.

Time to get this keg back together


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## Hellgate (Dec 29, 2016)

I assume this will be complete by noon?


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## dimibo (Sep 2, 2018)

Ceylon said:


> Parts for a complete top end overhaul have arrived. Giacomo at my local VW has been super helpful, dealing with longs lists of part numbers I'd like quoting for. Very friendly dealership


Can you post the complete list of ordered and changed parts?
It will be helpful to me.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Hellgate said:


> I assume this will be complete by noon?


Haha, my last post was at 2:24PM! We're 6 hours ahead of you guys.



dimibo said:


> Can you post the complete list of ordered and changed parts?
> It will be helpful to me.


It really depends on the work being done and the state of what you're removing. If you're stuck for any PN's though, feel free to drop me a PM and I'll help you out if I can :thumbup:.



I was hoping to get the engine done this weekend, but unfortunately, I was sent the wrong head gasket for bank one, so that will have to wait until next week.

I changed the 40 fuel rail leg o rings, fingers were aching by the end! Got these fitted in the heads and also fitted 10 new glow plugs.




















Bank 2 head is sat on finger tight, waiting for the bank1 head gasket. The tightening sequence if both heads are removed have to be done together to avoid damaging the block. So this is as far as I can go with the assembly.




















I've been painting all the steel engine parts in epoxy to give them some extra protection and hopefully avoid any future rust!











Injectors have been cleaned in the ultrasonic cleaner.







After cleaning the first 4 the cleaning solution looked like this!










These injectors were washed prior to ultrasonic leaning in Jizer and the tips were cleaned using a brass brush to remove all the carbon, so all this dirt is from inside the injectors! After cleaning the injector nozzle holes could be clearly seen, prior to cleaning they were very hard to spot so, this should definitely improve the atomization which will, in turn, lead to more power, efficiency, and less hot spotting. 


Bunch of new injector seals and ball pins.











And done! Ready to go back into the heads.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Ceylon said:


> Injectors have been cleaned in the ultrasonic cleaner.
> 
> After cleaning the first 4 the cleaning solution looked like this!




This is such a simple idea- but a HUGE time saver-


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTN7-C72eHA


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> This is such a simple idea- but a HUGE time saver-
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTN7-C72eHA


Yeah, that's definitely a good idea when cleaning smaller parts or if you have a larger ultrasonic cleaner :thumbup:. I'm regretting only buying a 3 litre one, the applications are endless! I may upgrade at some point.


Injectors came out good, I magnified a section so you can see the microscopic holes in the nozzles. PD injectors operate at such a high pressure (27800psi) that those tiny holes are all that is required, but they are susceptible to carbon build-up affecting the spray pattern.











Rufus has been loving the amount of time I've been spending outside. It has been super hot here, turns out the Phaeton bumper works quite well as a makeshift dog shade .


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Your assistant seems to be a tad lacking in motivation.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> Your assistant seems to be a tad lacking in motivation.


Haha, indeed!

Might be waiting a while for the head gasket, apparently it is on back order... So I've been doing little bits.

New oil cooler and filler neck seals, the old ones were a bit crispy, the seals in locations like this turn hard like plastic over time with all the heat cycles and will inevitably end up leaking, so let's avoid that! I also replaced the alternator drive seal but didn't take any pictures.











And bolted back up after a quick wash:




















Coolant connections in the V cleaned and with new seals and temp sensor:











EGR removal pipes, ASV's and manifolds assembled:



















Getting near the limit of what I can do without that gasket now! Perhaps I'll start on the ADR retrofit .


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Respect for you 
You have considerable work in progress.

- Jussi


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Jussi12 said:


> Respect for you
> You have considerable work in progress.
> 
> - Jussi


Cheers, not far off now, looking forward to having it back on the road .


The head gasket arrived, correct one this time!











Heads on and torqued down in order to spec:



















New engine mated to gearbox and on the pallet:











Power steering pump moved over with a new o ring.











Water pump cover sealed with Loctite quick-gasket as every V10 I've seen has a slow leak here. Also fitted the oil cooler housing, alternator, starter and the oil filter housing is placed on top to keep any debris out (This can be fitted properly later after the fuel rails and inlets):











Injectors fitted, angled and torqued down. These will all need setting up from scratch with a dial gauge as they've got new ball pins and I'm mixing and matching parts to use the best rockers etc.




















Cams going in tomorrow!


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

Ceylon said:


> Cheers, not far off now, looking forward to having it back on the road .


I can’t wait to see this in person -if you can come to a future owners meet. I think you’ll have one of the best in the country at this rate and probably the only one with some of the features.

Stanford Hall VW show was meant to take place in May but has been postponed for now until August. If it does go ahead it would be great to see you and your car there


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

CallumCarr said:


> I can’t wait to see this in person -if you can come to a future owners meet. I think you’ll have one of the best in the country at this rate and probably the only one with some of the features.
> 
> Stanford Hall VW show was meant to take place in May but has been postponed for now until August. If it does go ahead it would be great to see you and your car there


Cheers Callum, I'm planning to be there. It'd be good to meet you and some of the other owners. It'd be a good run for the car too. The last one looked like a great event, was a shame to miss it! .


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Now that they've arrived. Here's a better picture showing Touareg V10 and Phaeton V10 manifolds together. 


















Fitting the Touareg manifolds allows for the removal of the EGR cooler, which will put less strain on the cooling system, less chance of coolant or exhaust leaks, less heat in the engine bay, and more space in a rather crowded bay!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Cams went in last night .

Lifters have been soaking in 506.01 for a week or so. I manually pumped them all until no bubbles came out, so they should all be good to go when fitted.











Lifters and new camshaft bearing shells fitted and pre-lubed. I'm fitting new shells due to all the parts moving around, if you're reusing the same cam in the same head as long as the shells are going back in the same order and look ok you can re-use them:











Engine rotated and locked to Cyl1 TDC. Bank 1 lock tool in to keep cam in place when tightening down the bearing caps, we don't want to be bending any valves!











Bank 1 camshaft fitted and torqued down in order:











Inner link plate fitted and both inner link plates lined up:











Outer link plates test fitted and aligned:











Intermediary gear bearing pre-lubed and placed in:











Alignment of all 4 plates and gear check! This can be a bit fiddly:











When all good the shaft can go in, followed by the compensating piston:











New diamond crush cam washer and timing cam gear wheel in with timing marks lined up:











Gear system pre-tensioned to 80nm, clamped off, then cam bolt and pump drive torqued to 150nm + 90 deg:











Bank 1 assembly nearly complete:











I'll spare you the same process for bank 2 ...

Bank 2 in the tensioning phase:










Bank 2 complete for this phase:











All tools removed, crank rotated 4 times just to be safe and all tools slide in perfectly, so she's bang on in time. One of the common issues with people working on these engines is they forget to remove the slack from the gear system which results in the banks being out by a degree or more and likely will result in wear to the timing gears.











Timings cover caps fitted, vibration damper on, cool fact, these are filled with silicone oil to absorb vibration. VW went to great lengths to try and quieten and smoothen out this engine. With all the sound insulation, balancer shaft, decentrally arranged piston pin axis and vibration damper it really makes for a smooth diesel motor with quiet combustion:



















Next step is to fit the rockers and set up the injectors. Then the valve covers can be fitted for good .


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

It will purr and pull like nothing else. Beautiful work.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Brilliant ! 
How do you know how to do all this stuff ?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Melvivio said:


> It will purr and pull like nothing else. Beautiful work.


That's the plan! With a remap it should make good figures and an ideal daily commuter . I've never had a car so luxury-focused, really looking forward to having it finally sorted an on the road. 



robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Brilliant !
> How do you know how to do all this stuff ?


Thanks! Just self-taught mechanics really, I've always done it as a hobby and always liked the out of the norm engines like rotaries and big V's etc. It really helps that VAG has comprehensive documentation when it comes to all procedures and specs for torques etc. Really helps to have that to hand and makes no procedure on a VAG car too daunting. All motors are the same really when you get them apart, just a few different details .

The weather has taken a turn this week so I'm on a weather enforced break on this project at the moment, fingers crossed it'll pick up again soon and I can get back to it! It wont be a case of getting it straight back on the road. While the front is off I'll get the ADR retrofit finished up and the brake booster and master swapped out while the access is good :thumbup:.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Selected the best 4 of the 12 rockers, cleaned and torqued down with new bolts. Adjusted the depth of the plunger when fully compressed on each of the injectors using a DTI to ensure accuracy. It needs to be pretty accurate as you can damage the injectors if they are adjusted too deep.










Both banks set up, these are the last pics before the valve covers went on for good. All the wet stuff and marks are engine assembly lube to ensure she doesn't start dry .




















Fuel rails, valve covers and acoustic covers on with new PCV seals to hopefully minimise any chance of leaks:











Intake manifolds, ASV's, EGR delete, engine loom and various coolant pipes fitted:



















It's starting to look quite good now. Unfortunately... One of the aluminium coolant connecting pipes snapped when torquing down, not sure how as it was only being done up to 10nm :screwy:. I'll have to either fix or replace this...Which has halted progress for today.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Fitted some pre-molded silicone 16mm ID hoses to connect up the coolant pipes as I couldn't use the OEM ones as they went via the EGR coolers which we're not using. The hoses are in fire sleeve for some extra protection as they pass pretty close to the manifolds. Looks ugly I know, but this is not visible when the engine is fitted, so pure function .











Touareg exhaust manifolds, heat shields, DS engine mount, EGR block off plates, turbos, noise insulation, and PCV system fitted:











Loving how simple the side of the motor is without the EGR, so much nicer to work on .


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## costajus (Jun 14, 2020)

I've read this whole thread as I am considering buying a Phaeton. I dread to think what it has cost to sort the engine out and if you had to pay labour in a garage it would be a whole lot more.

Would you say it is best to avoid the V10 engine unless you can do stuff like this yourself? You said two of your three engines showed wear on the same cylinder and there are some other common faults you mentioned with the V10.

Do you happen to know if the V6 or W12 engines also have common problems? Obviously the smaller diesel engine is much more common than the V10 or W12.

Thanks and good luck finishing your project.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

costajus said:


> I've read this whole thread as I am considering buying a Phaeton. I dread to think what it has cost to sort the engine out and if you had to pay labour in a garage it would be a whole lot more.
> 
> Would you say it is best to avoid the V10 engine unless you can do stuff like this yourself? You said two of your three engines showed wear on the same cylinder and there are some other common faults you mentioned with the V10.
> 
> ...


Not really no. The V10's are normally reliable cars and usually do big miles with little trouble. Not to mention no major engine servicing required due to the maintenance free gear system. So no big service costs like cambelts or chains to worry about. I bought this car with an engine fault for very little, so fully expected to run into issues. I was happy with that as I wanted a very specific spec that I otherwise haven't seen for sale in the UK. 

The most common V10 issue is with the turbo actuators, but these can be replaced from below and it isn't that bad of a job or that expensive.

Just be sensible when selecting a car like you would buying any other car. Go for one with full service history that has been looked after properly and it'll likely go on for a long time. The build quality on these is really quite impressive.

The most sensible option and with lower repair and maintenance costs would be the v6, there is a lot to choose from in the UK compared to the v10's. I haven't had any first hand experience working on the v6, but it looks nicely laid out for much easier maintenance and component replacement.


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## costajus (Jun 14, 2020)

Thanks for the reply. What did yours cost (only if you don't mind me asking?)

I am looking for a 4 seater, preferably LWB and the more extras the better. It will be a second car / Sunday driver etc so fuel costs don't matter and I can service it myself but not sure about dragging an engine out on a pallet truck myself! The only one I have seen is a V10 on autotrader right now for £4,449 but it is a cat D so I am reluctant to consider it unless it is dirt cheap - I am not sure what a V10 LWB 4 seater is worth as this is the first V10 and first 4 seater I have come across?

I cannot post a link to the autotrader advert as I am a new member on here. Cheers!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

If I wanted outright reliability, relative simplicity and least cost, with easy spare parts- at least as far as the engine is concerned- I would look for a 3.2 VR6 with the stick shift.

Easy engine to work on, pretty much bulletproof, no timing belt, no turbo, easy to get more power out of, sounds good, and stick shift eh!! That engine was used in tons of VW / Audi / Porsche worldwide so plenty of parts.

Too bad they never sold one in the U.S.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Replaced the fuel composition sensor wiring all the way to the sensor, extending it as removing the filter housing in the bay is a ball-ache due to this wiring being so short. Also drilled and tapped the bottom of the filter housing to attach a plastic loom cover as damage to this wiring is super common on the v10.

Tandem pump, fuel pump, exhausts, sound insulation, dipstick tube, and a few other little bits fitted:




















Nice and simple compared to how it used to look!











I did use a little sealant on the metal pump gaskets even though they were new. They're common oil leak spots, probably as they mount half to the head, half to the bearing cap which isn't a perfectly true surface at the joint. Don't want any oil leaks!











And back home in the bay on its mounts . Hope engine number 3 is lucky...Third time's a charm? :laugh:.











Forgot I had this stashed away, Josh reminded me by talking about them the other day . Phaeton Individual optional leather rear AC with a chrome knob and matching leather lower vent shroud, cant fit this until the batteries are connected to move the seats out of the way. The less plastic the better .




















My work tables are not in as good condition as I would like. Not sure how fussed I am about them. I could fix the scratches and restore them, but I may just leave it without and have the extra leg room.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Can I buy this car when you're done??


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> Can I buy this car when you're done??


Everything is for sale at the right price :laugh:.


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

This will be a very nice benchmark of Phaeton Individuality!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I bet that is the same leather stitched rear 4-seat control head I was going to buy off Ebay!! 


Pics of table damage? I still may be interested....


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> I bet that is the same leather stitched rear 4-seat control head I was going to buy off Ebay!!
> 
> 
> Pics of table damage? I still may be interested....


Haha, No Sir, this one was an Allegro find that came with a bunch of random trim bits as a job lot. The chrome knob was from another later cars AC console.

I'll repair the tables and see how good they come out. They're just a bit scratched and marked, will likely go away with some anthracite vinyl dye if I can find a good match. With the rest of the interior so tidy now, I don't want any scratched bits.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

How did you get two work tables? 

I thought they were only available for the passenger seat.

Did you scare a LHD one and a RHD one? Bentley Flying Spur?

What color are they? Do they have wood?

I was looking at some Bentley ones but didn't think they would fit Phaeton front seats.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Well, the secretary needs to do work too!


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

PowerDubs said:


> Well, the secretary needs to do work too!



You jest, but I think we need more secretaries (err "administrative assistants") and editors.


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Since you are in the UK, I would be amazed if there is not a "local" specialized company in a shed refurbishing wood trim panels for luxury vehicles. Might be repair worth outsourcing.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

The work tables are Phaeton specific in anthracite, they came as a pair, so not sure if the previous owner sourced them separately, but they came as pair to me from a breaker.



Melvivio said:


> Since you are in the UK, I would be amazed if there is not a "local" specialized company in a shed refurbishing wood trim panels for luxury vehicles. Might be repair worth outsourcing.


Ah I don't mind doing the repair. I've repaired quite a lot of leather, Car seats, chairs, sofas etc, it's quite satisfying work and you can make any damage vanish with enough work . It's just finding the time!


Removed the EGR valve and EGR cooler control solenoids and associated pipework from inside the wings. This simplifies the engine bay quite a bit! 8 fewer vacuum pipes in the bay now, plus all in the below pic was removed:











Also removed the oem horns that were on their last legs, likely due to water ingress. They made a pathetic little chirp when used so I've replaced these with some new horns:











The engine bay is starting to fill out :




















I picked up some Bentley back boxes...











I'll weld up some adapters to make these fit and re-use one of the EGR solenoids to operate the actuators. I'm going to wire it so that the actuator is opened when in sport mode, otherwise it will remain closed.


I've also sourced some W12 exhaust tailpipes, frames, and lower valance that I'll have to adjust the Bentley boxes to mate up to.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Melvivio said:


> Since you are in the UK, I would be amazed if there is not a "local" specialized company in a shed refurbishing wood trim panels for luxury vehicles. Might be repair worth outsourcing.


This is one I found. There was at least one other but I can't find it in my favorites now.

http://www.silvercrest-woodtrim.co.uk/woodtrim.html


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Great work. 
How do you update the electronics to stop it complaining about the lack of EGR valves? ?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Cheers. You're right, the car will throw an emission light if you simply remove the egr or even if you just block off the vac pipes it'll know due to the change in air flow. It has to be coded out of the map. Usually done as part of a remap, it cannot be done with vcds. This car is not running a standard map to make use of the billet compressor wheels and EGR removal, so no worries there :thumbup:.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Thanks. 
Next question - what or who do you use to do a remap ? (just in case a blanking plate finds its way into my engine).


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Thanks.
> Next question - what or who do you use to do a remap ? (just in case a blanking plate finds its way into my engine).



If your car is otherwise standard, a generic remap will be fine. There are a number of places that offer this kind of service in the uk, I've heard good things about Celtic Tuning. If modified much then it'll ideally need to be custom map to make proper use of the modifications.


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## docwra (Aug 24, 2017)

I think Jez @ Horsham Developments https://h-dev.co.uk/ remapped a V10 Touareg he was smoking around in a few years ago, could be worth a shout 

Ive got a V10 and from the day I bought it Ive been waiting for something that needs the engine to be removed to break, its the only downside to owning these cars IMO. If you have time, space and ability then you can do it yourself but Im a bit worried about finding a mechanic that would actually take it on and do a decent job when the time comes. 

That said, whatever I replace it with will probably be upward of £20K, thats a lot of money to get something fixed with :laugh:


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

docwra said:


> I think Jez @ Horsham Developments https://h-dev.co.uk/ remapped a V10 Touareg he was smoking around in a few years ago, could be worth a shout
> 
> Ive got a V10 and from the day I bought it Ive been waiting for something that needs the engine to be removed to break, its the only downside to owning these cars IMO. If you have time, space and ability then you can do it yourself but Im a bit worried about finding a mechanic that would actually take it on and do a decent job when the time comes.
> 
> That said, whatever I replace it with will probably be upward of £20K, thats a lot of money to get something fixed with :laugh:


I think his car is a V6 going by his profile. Or if that was intended for me, I usually do my own maps, but thanks for the link .

Shout if something goes wrong with the V10...If you're not too far away I can probably sort it out for you. I've got a stack of parts and have done major engine surgery on a good few of these cars now. Garages seem to quote ridiculous repair costs when it comes to these motors. The last one I did camshaft replacement on was about 4 days work, they're not too bad when you get used to them.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Looking good!

So now there are 3 of us with Bentley mufflers sitting in the shed. 

Who is going to be the first to tackle that?


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## docwra (Aug 24, 2017)

Ceylon said:


> I think his car is a V6 going by his profile. Or if that was intended for me, I usually do my own maps, but thanks for the link .
> 
> Shout if something goes wrong with the V10...If you're not too far away I can probably sort it out for you. I've got a stack of parts and have done major engine surgery on a good few of these cars now. Garages seem to quote ridiculous repair costs when it comes to these motors. The last one I did camshaft replacement on was about 4 days work, they're not too bad when you get used to them.


Cheers, thats very good of you thanks and I did think he was talking about his V10, obviously you do your own mapping :lol: 

TBH depending on the issue Id be tempted to get a Touareg engine, replace the usual suspects out of the car and then just replace mine with it, I think it would be a lot quicker and less painful that way, hopefully wont need it anytime soon though


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> Looking good!
> 
> So now there are 3 of us with Bentley mufflers sitting in the shed.
> 
> Who is going to be the first to tackle that?


Cheers Josh! Haha, well I'm going to get my car running first, so I wont be looking at the backboxes for a month or so. That gives you a head start to blaze the trail .




docwra said:


> Cheers, thats very good of you thanks and I did think he was talking about his V10, obviously you do your own mapping :lol:
> 
> TBH depending on the issue Id be tempted to get a Touareg engine, replace the usual suspects out of the car and then just replace mine with it, I think it would be a lot quicker and less painful that way, hopefully wont need it anytime soon though


The Touareg engine has a few distinct changes, it's much easier to swap in a Phaeton specific AJS. The sump, lower baffles, nearly all the coolant hard pipes, flex plate, fuel filter housing, manifolds, and various other small bits are all different in the touareg. They are all swappable, so if it's worth it price point wise then it's not a bad idea, just quite a bit more work .


Did a little on the car after work today as the weather was good.

Drained the brake master and pulled it. My god that brake booster clip is annoying to remove without the specialist tool! The master is nice to drain though, easy to vacuum drain with no spillage. Note the black washer cap, the only ugly cap to address now is the coolant cap .











Once removed you can see 15 years worth of previously inaccessible grime! Much cleaning required!











Brake booster line up! My original, standard non-ADR booster on the left, RHD ADR booster in the middle and a LHD ADR brake booster on the right. The RHD one has been cleaned and the master rebuilt with new seals etc:











The reason I have the LHD one is it came with a plug and sensor I needed.

ADR booster and master fitted, filled and bled:











If you're wondering why there is some random white coaxial cable, it's to use as a cable pull for the new ADR wiring later .


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Ceylon said:


> My god that brake booster clip is annoying to remove without the specialist tool! The master is nice to drain though, easy to vacuum drain with no spillage.


I struggled with releasing that clip when I took my parts car apart last year. I did manage it in the end but it's certainly difficult. Any tricks to that if you don't have the special tool for that?

Fun fact about that little pinched off nipple on the brake fluid reservoir. I've always wondered about that when I clean out the plenum area because it's in the way but recently I read somewhere that this is actually for the clutch on the stick shift Phaetons, not that there are many out there.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I struggled with releasing that clip when I took my parts car apart last year. I did manage it in the end but it's certainly difficult. Any tricks to that if you don't have the special tool for that?
> 
> Fun fact about that little pinched off nipple on the brake fluid reservoir. I've always wondered about that when I clean out the plenum area because it's in the way but recently I read somewhere that this is actually for the clutch on the stick shift Phaetons, not that there are many out there.


Not really! It took me a good 10 minutes to remove, not sure why VW designed it like that. In the end, I wedged small packers near the four lugs and removed the plastic piece from the pedal by lifting the pedal and it came out intact. I'm sure there is an easier way, I only removed the lower footwell cover so I didn't have the best possible access. I also left the 4 bolts in that area and chose to disturb the higher seal that is removable from the bay instead. My theory was this one is less likely to leak.

That makes sense, a gravity feed to the clutch master. If I'd thought about it I could have removed it and made a flush cap while it was all apart to save the worry about damaging it when working in that area. It's already pretty tight around there and now even worse with the three extra plugs for ADR!


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Ceylon said:


> Not really! It took me a good 10 minutes to remove, not sure why VW designed it like that. In the end, I wedged small packers near the four lugs and removed the plastic piece from the pedal by lifting the pedal and it came out intact. I'm sure there is an easier way, I only removed the lower footwell cover so I didn't have the best possible access. I also left the 4 bolts in that area and chose to disturb the higher seal that is removable from the bay instead. My theory was this one is less likely to leak.


I'm not sure there's an easier way besides using that tool. I had the whole dash out and clear access to the pedal assembly and it was still difficult.


Btw, I very much enjoy following along your engine rebuild. I've never worked on a diesel so being able to see the V10 up close is very educational. Thanks for posting all the photos!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Huh? The clutch in the manual shares fluid from the brake reservoir?


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

PowerDubs said:


> Huh? The clutch in the manual shares fluid from the brake reservoir?


You learn something new every day


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Ceylon said:


> Not really! It took me a good 10 minutes to remove, not sure why VW designed it like that. In the end, I wedged small packers near the four lugs and removed the plastic piece from the pedal by lifting the pedal and it came out intact. I'm sure there is an easier way, I only removed the lower footwell cover so I didn't have the best possible access. I also left the 4 bolts in that area and chose to disturb the higher seal that is removable from the bay instead. My theory was this one is less likely to leak.
> 
> That makes sense, a gravity feed to the clutch master. If I'd thought about it I could have removed it and made a flush cap while it was all apart to save the worry about damaging it when working in that area. It's already pretty tight around there and now even worse with the three extra plugs for ADR!


Really like your build and your tenacity. Many would have given up before you even started. Some have been members here. 

What's a packer?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I'm not sure there's an easier way besides using that tool. I had the whole dash out and clear access to the pedal assembly and it was still difficult.
> 
> 
> Btw, I very much enjoy following along your engine rebuild. I've never worked on a diesel so being able to see the V10 up close is very educational. Thanks for posting all the photos!


Ah, I'd hoped with better access it'd be easier. If I had to do it again I think I'd make the specialist tool to ensure nothing got damaged, brittle old plastics are not always forgiving! Haha thanks, glad you're enjoying the thread :thumbup:.




PowerDubs said:


> Huh? The clutch in the manual shares fluid from the brake reservoir?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Is this not common in the states? Most manual cars over here have been like this for years, saves a good bit of space in the bay!




53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Really like your build and your tenacity. Many would have given up before you even started. Some have been members here.
> 
> What's a packer?


Thanks! I just googled what packer means over there and it really is quite different :laugh:. Packer over here is something that fills a space between two things or is used as a wedge to move or pry something. I used 4 small bits of plastic to wedge in down the sides to lift the lugs out of their seating holes so that the part could be removed.


Did a little on the ADR wiring, just the 3 plugs for the booster area really. The rest needs to be done on the car due to the cable route needing to be fished through various places (Not possible with plugs attached) and determining the correct cable lengths. Sure I could go too long, but I don't want excess wiring left about that may rub or rattle. 

I've gone for soldering and heat shrink over crimping as in the scuttle panel I'm more concerned about corrosion than vibration. The final loom will be fabric taped inside plastic split tubing then fabric tape again on top. The heat shrink is clear for inspection purposes and I kept a little bit of the old wire as it may help with fault finding down the road should it be needed.

To fit the ADR properly using the correct cable path, both front arches and the headlights need to come off. I'm going for this route as it'll then be as OEM, so easier for someone else to fault find. Also, I don't like random wires running through the engine bay, the more that's hidden the better . I'll get the ADR retrofit finished up this weekend if the weather is good. It's not too bad to retrofit.. It's 27 wires that go to the ABS ECU, engine ECU 1, Onboard supply, fuse box, CAN network, and the new brake booster controller.

Sourcing all the plugs was fun. They're all different, some are made by Lucas and commonly used for parking sensors on Fords, but most are VAG specific, you just need the correct variant as some have additional legs to ensure correct placement etc.




























The tubing will need to be extended and this section of the ADR loom finished when the plugs are attached to the other ends and I know the required length after fishing this bit through to the ECU area.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Ceylon said:


> Is this not common in the states? Most manual cars over here have been like this for years, saves a good bit of space in the bay!





Well- the Phaetons is one of the only automatic cars myself or my wife have owned (out of 20+ cars) but I don't normally have any reason to pay attention to the clutch system.

Heck- even on a car I converted from a 1.8L 8v 3-speed auto w/ drum brake to a 2.0 16v 5-speed w/ all disc and abs, I had a parts car so pretty much swapped everything and didn't look into any details that I didn't need to as I already had a lot on my plate.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Ceylon said:


> Thanks! I just googled what packer means over there and it really is quite different :laugh:. Packer over here is something that fills a space between two things or is used as a wedge to move or pry something. I used 4 small bits of plastic to wedge in down the sides to lift the lugs out of their seating holes so that the part could be removed..


Thanks for clearing that up.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

ADR retrofit is complete, all wiring, control modules, and hardware installed as per OE standards and locations. All coding checked out and it's throwing no errors. Measuring block tests look good. Just need to spray the new ADR specific front side grill covers tarantella black and aim the sensor with a laser to ensure it's angled right.










The engine bay is all back together, just need to pop the subframe back in then a whole load of pre-start checks before turning the key and seeing what she makes of her new Frankenstein block .


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

The front subframe is back in, well, it's actually not the original subframe... I sourced a much lower mileage V10 specific one from Germany with the improved later bushes because when else would you consider changing this? Yep, never . All the front suspension, leveling sensors, and front driveshafts are also now fitted. A lot of these parts are V10 specific, Being the heavyweight of the group. With steel suspension arms and subframe. Other models get away with aluminum variants due to the reduced load on the parts. This subframe is like new whereas my old one was showing signs of starting to rust in places. All that remains before starting is to join up the exhausts and the rear prop shaft. I know, it's only 20 mins of work but I couldn't be bothered to crawl under the car with the weather we've had recently, it's supposed to be better this weekend .

My W12 rear valance and tips arrived. Going to have to modify this slightly as my car has the oem towbar with the folding electrics to hide them up in the bumper.










Not sure what way to go with this.. My car needs all the doors, rear bumper, and one rear quarter respraying. Do I get rid of the black lower trims and colour match it all? I think I'm quite tempted to give it a go....


Fitted a magnetic sump plug as I do with all my cars. It's always interesting how much they pull from the oil.











Now the car has power I can swap the rear AC panel for the leather Phaeton individual one and the leather vent shroud.











Leather version on the right, both versions have the AV inputs as this car is equipped with the rear-seat entertainment:











And fitted:




























It definitely improves the quality feel of the rear of the car .


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm guessing by this point, you probably have more knowledge about the Phaeton V10 model than any other person alive.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I consider myself a little crazy as a car builder 
But I have to say that also you do a great job too :thumbup:

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Good job!!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Cheers guys, done some work on the motor over the weekend .







Not sure why my voice sounds odd in the video, I really do not sound like that haha. I didn't bleed the fuel system as I wanted it to run over on the starter to build oil pressure and get some oil to the turbos and all new parts before firing up.

The engine has quietened down nicely after running for 15 mins. The injector correction balance is so flat in VCDS now, she's running real good and not a sign of smoke at all from the exhausts. Just need to put the interior back together then we can take her for a test drive .

On the ground again at last  - Really needs a clean!


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

Congratulations! Great work 

I was going to say that I would have given up ages ago, but in all honesty I don't think I would have even started.

Hopefully you'll be able to start enjoying the fruits of your labour soon!

This'll probably be one of the nicest Phaetons in the UK


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## Hellgate (Dec 29, 2016)

It's alive! Congratulations


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Congrats on getting it running!

Your poor starter. Duty cycle man, duty cycle!! I can smell the windings from here!

I guess that will be a future video- how to replace a starter on a V10


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

CallumCarr said:


> Congratulations! Great work
> 
> I was going to say that I would have given up ages ago, but in all honesty I don't think I would have even started.
> 
> ...


Thanks Callum! Yes it'll be nice to get some use out of the car now it's running, can't believe I'll have owned it a year by the end of next month, I've definitely been slacking!



Hellgate said:


> It's alive! Congratulations


Cheers :thumbup:.



PowerDubs said:


> Congrats on getting it running!
> 
> Your poor starter. Duty cycle man, duty cycle!! I can smell the windings from here!
> 
> I guess that will be a future video- how to replace a starter on a V10


Ha, cheers. I would be pretty gutted to have to pull the engine again to swap the starter....I do have a spare though . Ideally you shouldn't really run a starter for over a minute. She's a big girl though, she can handle it . The starters on these motors are huge to deal with the compression of 10 high comp diesel cylinders! .


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Congratulations!

The W12 in 8486 has lifter rattle as does the 16V in my 1988 Scirocco and the VR6 12V in my 1993 Corrado. 

I changed the oil pump on the Scirocco to a higher volume 2.0 Liter version but it didn't quiet the lifters.

I haven't seen the Corrado in years but remember it had the lifter rattle. 

They all sound a little "diesely".

I think 7579 has lifter rattle also but it's been so long. 


I think I understand your lingo but want to make sure. Gutted is bad, right? 

If Americans have guts, that means they have courage. We also say they have balls. 

Well Chuffed is good, right?

If gutted refers back to having your intestines cut out, that would be bad indeed. What does "Chuffed" reference? 

I saw a reference to a train chuffing (AKA puffing) but why would that be good for a human?

This reminds me of the Monte Python RAF sketch:

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3v9z74


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Congratulations!
> 
> The W12 in 8486 has lifter rattle as does the 16V in my 1988 Scirocco and the VR6 12V in my 1993 Corrado.
> 
> ...


Thanks! Yes, the engine was a bit noisy as it's the first time it has started with lots of new parts, particularly lifters that'll need pumping up with oil. It has been a lot quieter on subsequent starts. There is no audible tapping of lifters etc now.

Gutted is similar to being really disappointed/devastated.

Chuffed is quite an old expression but means happy with something. e.g. I'm well chuffed that the new motor in my car is running well etc. Personally I rarely use this word but some do!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

This is already the nicest combine harvester I've ever seen.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

invisiblewave said:


> This is already the nicest combine harvester I've ever seen.


Hahaha, yes I do have a bit of a farmer accent being from Somerset .


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> This is already the nicest combine harvester I've ever seen.


My uncle was a farmer and a great mechanic. He would repair and use broken farm equipment others had discarded. 

One of his John Deer Combines had a patent pending date from the 1940s. 

I saw the Patent Pending date when I was greasing the bearings. 

He had one tractor that started on gasoline but ran on diesel. You flipped the switch to diesel as soon as it started. 

I think it was an International Harvester.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm guessing most farmers must have some level of mechanical skill. I did once land a parachute in a John Dere lot.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Got to say, I am liking how the W12 tips look. Definitely livens up the back end of the car!











I trimmed the valance and plastic welded the tow bar cover support bracket in place so it looks and works like an oem towbar version. The Bentley back boxes are not in yet, I'll do that on the lift at a later date, currently still on the oem backboxes so for now these tips are for show only :laugh:.


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## DasAuto2000 (Jul 16, 2020)

The exhaust tips look splendid! Great project overall!!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

DasAuto2000 said:


> The exhaust tips look splendid! Great project overall!!


Thanks! I'm quite pleased with them, looks good I think.


So my rear AC looks pretty swanky now until you notice the 90's Nokia screen.











So I've retrofitted an oled screen to replace it, looks more modern and classy.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

That's slick!

Details?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> That's slick!
> 
> Details?


Fitted to later models, started in 2008, not sure what year they went to the smaller touch unit, but that was much later on.

Technically it is plug and play.... The PCB and screen fit in your early casing, but if you like things to match like me you'll need to swap all the surface mount LEDs over to make it light up red rather than white, there is something like 16 LEDs to desolder and move over IIRC.

Took the passenger door apart to fix the window regulator, turned out to not be too bad and has just had popped off one of the wheels:











The wheel was cracked but luckily I had spares to swap it out with











Back together and I fitted the reamaining Bentley window switches











It moves 











Interior is all back together with all the wiring complete. The fans have been running non stop with all the heat we've had off the solar roof. It definitely keeps the interior temps down, works well!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Ceylon said:


> Fitted to later models, started in 2008,, but if you like things to match like me you'll need to swap all the surface mount LEDs over to make it light up red rather than white,




But now your Bentley window switches light up white.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> But now your Bentley window switches light up white.


Yeah I quite like that. Matches in with the cluster etc. But the late rear AC was just too much white and looked out of place. Odd to have a matching AC knob in the front and back but one is white and one is red. The oled display stays white, just all the buttons around it are now red when the headlights are on.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I’d like that rear display. Please let me know if you see another. 


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> I’d like that rear display. Please let me know if you see another.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll keep an eye out for you :thumbup:.

It's a nice spacious board without many components making the soldering work pretty simple. Here's mine with the 14 red led's swapped over from the original rear HVAC controller:




















New tyres are on, just waiting on a new bleed nipple for my front right caliper then it'll be ready for its MOT!


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

I can't figure out who is more talented - you or Jussi12. 
Brilliant job 😉


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Haha cheers.

Had a bit of a break from this car as I took on another V10 Phaeton to fix that had some serious electrical issues (Battery drains, charge fault, trying to set itself on fire etc!). Now that's all resolved and back with it's owner I'm back onto my car!











I had a power steering leak at the cooler which I've fixed, for some reason it really has an issue sealing there... I don't like the clips and seals used for that joint, doesn't seem very clever.. I'll chop it out and make my own if it fails again. 

The front brake calipers have been swapped with some super low mileage 100% corrosion free ones I found in Germany and couldn't resist!











The interior on this car is really smart but one bit that annoyed me was where someone has fitted the parrot they'd damaged the trim that hides the mount of the rear view mirror. I'd sourced a complete replacement mirror a while back to steal the trim from but had been putting it off as removing brittle old plastic clips is bad enough.. Let alone brittle old plastic clips and trims covered in the soft touch coating that needs no excuse to scratch and flake off..

Well the rest of the car is pretty much done so it was time to get stuck in. The mirror with memory comes apart easy, the shafts are very different. The non-memory mirror was a bit more fun to disassemble... But I got there with some very careful prying with plastic trim tools. The trim is the same on both models, so it wasn't an issue that my donor mirror didn't have the memory function.

Here's a pic showing the different bases. The memory mirror has a spring clip then slides off. The non-memory mirror needs complete disassembly then a gentle tap from inside the mirror to remove the ball joint. As a side note, the memory mirror has two assembly groves, one for LHD and one for RHD, in case anyone wants to source a replacement, either will do and are simple to swap between the two!











Ofcourse everything runs through the shaft and this needs to be removed to change the trim, so two of the three plugs had to be de-pinned











The trim we need off! I'm sure you can identify which one is the old damaged one!











How they managed to snap that piece out i'm not sure!


All back together with the new trim and fixed, it finally wont bug me to look in my rear view mirror :




















I don't have pictures of this yet as I literally did this Saturday but the new front bumper is on as mine had broken washer covers and a cracked lower grill. I also swapped my radiator fans out as one of mine had a failed bearing, I'd guess some water must have got in it from sitting... It sounded like an aeroplane taking off when at full speed :laugh:. Luckily the fans are the same as the v6, so a low mileage replacement set with controllers and shroud was easy to source. It wasn't too bad to swap out, I had to put the front end into service position and remove the top radiator hose then the fans could be taken out the top through the bay. Maybe just over an hours work including bumper removal and refit.

She passed her yearly roadworthy test on Saturday with no advisories and is now on the road for the first time in a year! Took it out to get dinner last night, good to see her finally on the road and off the drive .

I've got one fault left to resolve which is with the ADR. Hopefully I'll get some time one evening this week as I've got a 9 hour drive on Saturday and it would really be nice to have the ADR working for that!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Good job as always!!

I am waiting at the motor vehicle, baking in the sun for hours as we speak to register the Phaeton so I can put her back on the road soon as well.


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## Chromelugs (Jul 1, 2020)

*Fantastic job*

I’ve been following this thread from the day it started, I think I remember looking at your Phaeton when it was for sale but decided I wouldn’t be up to it (boy was I right)
Congratulations I hope you get many miles of pleasure from it.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Wow Ceylon, great job!

Love the calipers. 

What's a parrot (besides the bird)?


PowerDubs, 

Small world, I got my Ford inspected and registered today. 

I didn't have to go the DMV. Some emissions inspection stations here have On The Spot registration. You can get your car inspected and registered at the same time.


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> Good job as always!!
> 
> I am waiting at the motor vehicle, baking in the sun for hours as we speak to register the Phaeton so I can put her back on the road soon as well.
> 
> ...


Thanks Josh, Good to get them back on the road!



Chromelugs said:


> I’ve been following this thread from the day it started, I think I remember looking at your Phaeton when it was for sale but decided I wouldn’t be up to it (boy was I right)
> Congratulations I hope you get many miles of pleasure from it.


Haha, you avoided a lot of headaches there! This one nearly cost me my marriage a couple of times the amount of time I've had to sink in to it :laugh:.




53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Wow Ceylon, great job!
> 
> Love the calipers.
> 
> ...


Thanks! A Parrot is a Bluetooth phone integration system for audio and calls, works quite well.

The PS cooler leak has returned! I think I might just tig some AN fittings on the lines and cooler then replace the flexible section with new braided lines and be done with it!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Go to say, after a remap these cars are really quite impressive. I mean it was no slouch before.. But now it's a rocket barge .


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## docwra (Aug 24, 2017)

Ceylon said:


> Go to say, after a remap these cars are really quite impressive. I mean it was no slouch before.. But now it's a rocket barge .


Always been tempted but worry about the gearbox, I think doing donuts in it at Le Mans a few years ago didnt do it any good :laugh:

Any idea what numbers youre running now?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

docwra said:


> Always been tempted but worry about the gearbox, I think doing donuts in it at Le Mans a few years ago didnt do it any good :laugh:
> 
> Any idea what numbers youre running now?


Haha I'm not sure I'd be brave enough to attempt to do donuts in it after only just getting it working, I'm pretty happy it's no longer a driveway ornament!

I just went with Celtic Tuning for speed in the end rather than mapping it myself. They quoted that a test car with the same map on their dyno made 375hp and 650lb/ft of torque. It feels like more to be honest. The car is smoother and considerably faster. I'd definitely recommend Celtic Tuning. I went for the EGR and speed limiter removal options also.

I did modify my turbos (Billet compressor wheels, 360 deg bearings etc), running Touareg exhaust manifolds, mild head/inlet porting (Smoothing out transitions and port matching) and all the EGR stuff is gone so I should be making a bit more than their test car I'd think. I'll dyno it at some point. The AFR's are spot on and she doesn't smoke at all.


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Sounds like a wonderful upgrade. The mandatory emissions systems are a limiting factor, but they are what they are. If by chance you go for a night drive, slap a go-pro inside so we can enjoy your work. :thumbup:


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Melvivio said:


> Sounds like a wonderful upgrade. The mandatory emissions systems are a limiting factor, but they are what they are. If by chance you go for a night drive, slap a go-pro inside so we can enjoy your work. :thumbup:


Yeah I'd definitely recommend the remap. I'll get a video of the acceleration soon, it's quite impressive.

So late last week my car developed an intermittent issue where it'd get low boost to bank 1. When this happened and audible hiss occurred that increased in volume along with load so naturally I assumed it was a boost leak. After checking the car over it isn't actually boost but an odd sounding exhaust manifold leak with the tell tail signs of a leak around the manifold area :banghead:. It's odd as it really did sound like a boost leak, not the usual ticking sound of a manifold leak.

At first this was a bit disheartening as we probably all know that manifold removal is one of the "Engine out procedures", but after having a play over the weekend I've managed to remove the manifold so all went well. I suspect my Touareg manifold is slightly warped but cant be too bad as it seals most of the time. I'll sand the flange flat and try again with a new gasket. I probably should have checked them for straightness before fitting them on the initial assembly, d'oh. 

I also got some maintenance and improvements done over the weekend. 

AC condenser replaced as mine has taken a few hits and finally started leaking. 
New drier fitted.
Replace headlight ballast as the left low beam intermittently failed to light. Interestingly, the ballast locations on the headlights swapped positions over the years, the ballast at fault was the main ballast, the high beam ballast is just a slave to the main ballast.
Re-wire front bumper fog lights as the new bumper had the later loom with individual wiring (3 pin) to the fogs rather than the older type (2 pin) with shared positive.
Service wiper motor linkage. They obviously didn't like sitting for a year, they'd nearly seized up! Quite a poor design really (Not something you can say about many Phaeton parts!).


Pretty mashed up, this car has seen a lot of highway use. The PS cooler does a good job of protecting a small patch . I moved the plastic protector over to the new condenser to hopefully save it from any large stones:



















Looks smart with the new condenser :










Hopefully I should get time in the week to sort out the manifold, replace the gasket and get her back on the road again. The annoying thing is, I had to remove the subframe to diagnose the fault as visibility is so poor to this area.. I really need to invest in a decent bore scope!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Put 2k miles on her over the last few months and she's running like a dream now! Everything on the car works and works really well! The solar sunroof is really good at keeping the temps inside down when parked in the sun. It surprises passengers when they expect a baking hot car being black and it's nice and comfortable temps inside. On the flip side, on the cold days it has been nice to be able to run the diesel heater from the remote so by the time I'm ready to leave for work it's already nice and warm in the Phaeton, pure luxury! I'll probably set this on an automatic timer when winter kicks in so the motor never starts fully cold in the mornings. It's a shame I cant run the heated seats and steering wheel remotely :laugh:.

She's currently in the body shop getting all the doors, one rear quarter and the rear bumper painted to bring it all up to a good standard then she's done and onto the next project as the FD needs some engine work! I know, I'm being lazy and not spraying it myself, but with it being autumn now the weather is rubbish here and I'd have to run many dehumidifiers and heaters to create the required spraying environment and quite frankly I cannot be bothered .

I'm getting way better economy that I expected from the Phaeton. Naturally around town and local trips it is fairly pants, early to mid 20s.. Even that is fairly impressive for a five litre V10 I guess. But on a run it really is quite surprising how economical it is. I saw mid 30's running up to Wolverhampton the other week .


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## JCJ (Nov 26, 2013)

Congrats on getting it all working, really impressed. Out of interest how much was the condenser, was it a genuine part?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ElSmoko (Feb 10, 2019)

Ceylon said:


> I'm getting way better economy that I expected from the Phaeton. Naturally around town and local trips it is fairly pants, early to mid 20s.. Even that is fairly impressive for a five litre V10 I guess. But on a run it really is quite surprising how economical it is. I saw mid 30's running up to Wolverhampton the other week .


That's impressive, as good as I'm getting from a 3 litre! I routinely get 24mpg around suburban "town" driving, and 34-36mpg on long runs. Strangely going up the M3 I get about 40mpg indicated, but if I actually calculate MPG it's only really about 35-36mpg. Got me wondering if I should be doing better than that now!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

JCJ said:


> Congrats on getting it all working, really impressed. Out of interest how much was the condenser, was it a genuine part?
> 
> It was a genuine part that someone had bought in error so I got it for a bargain price on ebay. Which worked out well as they were out of UK stock when I phoned VW.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





ElSmoko said:


> That's impressive, as good as I'm getting from a 3 litre! I routinely get 24mpg around suburban "town" driving, and 34-36mpg on long runs. Strangely going up the M3 I get about 40mpg indicated, but if I actually calculate MPG it's only really about 35-36mpg. Got me wondering if I should be doing better than that now!


Could always upgrade to a 5 litre . The acceleration is fantastic, seems wrong for a barge like the LWB Phaeton to move that well, especially a diesel :laugh:.


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## ElSmoko (Feb 10, 2019)

Ceylon said:


> Could always upgrade to a 5 litre . The acceleration is fantastic, seems wrong for a barge like the LWB Phaeton to move that well, especially a diesel :laugh:.


I was looking for one when I bought my 3 litre. Found one with a nackered gearbox but somebody beat me to it. I love the idea of the big V10 - I drove a W12 and loved how wafty and effortless it was, I imagine the V10 is even more so with all the torque. It's been awesome watching the progress on this thread, but it does make me glad I didn't buy a V10 with known issues in the hope I could fix them - that's a level of commitment and bravery beyond me!


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

ElSmoko said:


> I was looking for one when I bought my 3 litre. Found one with a nackered gearbox but somebody beat me to it. I love the idea of the big V10 - I drove a W12 and loved how wafty and effortless it was, I imagine the V10 is even more so with all the torque. It's been awesome watching the progress on this thread, but it does make me glad I didn't buy a V10 with known issues in the hope I could fix them - that's a level of commitment and bravery beyond me!


I definitely underestimated the work involved and didn't have much time to throw at it. I could probably have got it sorted in a 3 or 4 weeks if I wasn't so busy with other projects. It is really effortless to drive, great cars. 

I got the car back from the bodyshop last weekend so it's all finished now. Quite enjoying just driving it around rather than working on it! 

Only slight issue now is that my job role has changed recently and I may be getting a company car in the near future... If I do I'm not sure what will happen to the Phaeton. Would seem a shame to sell it when I've only recently got it all as I want it!


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## JTW_1996 (Dec 24, 2021)

Ceylon said:


> Coming to the end of the other projects I've been working on (One of which being fixing another V10 Phaeton with camshaft failure!) so should be back on this one again soon. The purchase of another car negated the urgency to get this one operational so soon, so I can take my time and do a more thorough job now. As such, I'm going to be pulling the engine again for a ground-up, heads off, injectors serviced, all bearings replaced etc rebuild to ensure it's all as new.
> 
> I've done a bunch of other bits to the car since I last updated this, it has all new rear brakes, calipers, parking brake cables and other misc bits fitted that I cannot even remember as it was all last year!
> 
> ...


Hi loving this thread just wondering with the ACC the parts you listed "brake booster, master cylinder, brake-related sensors, valves & potentiometer, radar, steering wheel controls, radar bumper vents & brake booster control module to retrofit ADR" is this all that's needed plus coding? Also saw a comment you made on hos they share same servo as any other phaeton resulting in poor pedal feel did you find anyway to improve on this?


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## Gorea4ii (Jan 11, 2016)

Hi Ceylon, amazing dedication!!
I am thinking about ADR retrofit into my V10 as well, have you managed your ADR to work as it is expected and what was the issue finally?
Thank you in advance!


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## docwra (Aug 24, 2017)

Not sure hes here anymore, IIRC he sold the car after a turbo went last year. You might have some success if you PM him though?


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