# Is AEM infinity worth me spending 4000 on?



## 1slovrt (Aug 18, 2015)

I got quoted 4000 for a infinity setup for my vrt. Anybody have any real world experiance with this?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

No experience with AEM, but you could build one heck of a MS3 for less than half that. And still have $$$ left over for tuning if you don't want to do it yourself. And have money left over to buy and have a diff installed in your tranny.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

$4000 for what? Just the box? Or box plus harness (layover or adapter to stock wiring harness?) plus sensors plus dyno tune? You need to quantify what you're getting for your money.


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## 1slovrt (Aug 18, 2015)

Tune plus harness and the box.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

$4gs for an uninstalled standalone, and some tuning, is a bad financial decision.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Between wheels and ecu, this could be a $12K car.....


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## 1slovrt (Aug 18, 2015)

I passed 12 a while back.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

i would like to see someone running the AEM ecu on a vr myself as it looks like a real feature rich system. at this time i would suggest going with a ms3pro ecu and have a harness built if you don't feel okay doing your own. im building a harness for a obd2 vr6 using a ms3x ecu and its really not too bad if you go slow and take notes.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

1slovrt said:


> Tune plus harness and the box.


Adapter harness or layover harness? HUGE difference between the two. An adapter harness shouldn't cost more than about $350 for something simple like a 12v VR6. A full layover harness could be $800+ and easily $1000 depending on how it's built. 

FWIW, for something like this that's an adapter harness, box and tune, I'd be sub-$3k for sure.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

The AEM infinity is a nice piece hardware wise but the firmware and tuning software suck (Classic AEM). When one of the best and most experienced calibration specialists ( tuner ) in the country shies away from it you know there are serious issues.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

that's your reason why aem fw/sw sucks? because some tuner doesn't like it?


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## ForVWLife (Nov 12, 2004)

seems to be the ecu of choice for alot of cars coming out of Force Fed Engineering

get in touch with them for more info about wiring, sensors and tuning as they can provide everything you need


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

punkrider99 said:


> that's your reason why aem fw/sw sucks? because some tuner doesn't like it?


No not at all: I have used it too and...... IT SUCKS. Its loaded with bugs, isn't the slightest bit intuitive and AEM doesn't seem to care if the bugs get fixed or not. And Scott Clark is not just "some tuner" He is the best and most widely experienced tuner in North America.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

Hard to believe it's loaded with bugs and sucks if it's the spec ecu for racing series like scca trans am, global rallycross, nasa np1 and off road champ series but coming from a megasquirt nut swinger that thinks scott clark is a tuning god isn't much of a surprise.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

.......you talked yourself into it and you didn't like the opinions _you asked_ for? 

Have at it...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm confused. Something doesn't have to be the BEST to be a spec'd product for racing series, it just has to be the one that came in with the best offer for sponsorship to the organizers.

Do you run AEM on your car or do you just feel that strongly about it?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

punkrider99 said:


> Hard to believe it's loaded with bugs and sucks if it's the spec ecu for racing series like scca trans am, global rallycross, nasa np1 and off road champ series but coming from a megasquirt nut swinger that thinks scott clark is a tuning god isn't much of a surprise.


I don't think Scott is a god of any sort but he is a very very good tuner. He has more experience on more systems than anyone else that I know of. He also has tuned more race winning cars than anyone that I know of.

Now I remember why I stopped coming on the Vortex..... Yes megasquirt is my SEM of choice. So what? It works, it's relatively inexpensive, and I make my living with it. My opinions concerning AEM SEM stuff is based on MY experiences with it as well as feedback from others in my profession.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

B4S said:


> I'm confused. Something doesn't have to be the BEST to be a spec'd product for racing series, it just has to be the one that came in with the best offer for sponsorship to the organizers.


Especially where SCCA and NASA are concerned and I say that as a 10 year SCCA member but the fact is that the"powers that be" in both SCCA and NASA are constantly selling out to the highest bidder. It cost one of my customers a national championship this year :banghead:


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## 1slovrt (Aug 18, 2015)

Ok so what i got out of this thread was yes and no then a couple kardashians started arguing over scott. I understand that aem might be pushing a over priced cheap product through tons of marketing and plastering it all over sanctioned racing events, and i also understand that it may have a few bugs but if my unit is defective ill ship it back! Through on going reaserch into this product some dude just went 180 somthing in a caddy and set a land speed record (i literally just googled aem infinity and its like the first thing). Also the failsafes are a plus. :beer: stay tuned for a build thread.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

All a matter of marketing, and any of the SEM's available now could pretty much do that. That guy just happened to have AEM as a sponsor. I thought way back when NASCAR was going EFI that there would be some MS units at the top of US circle jerk racing, but they went with a spec ecu from Mclaren(I think) and I read somewhere each unit costs about $10K. Simply a money grab by NASCAR. With the top tier ecu's, it's more about what the tuner can do with the ecu/tune than what the ecu can do, as they all are spec'd pretty closely as far as capabilities. They think MS units have going for them is relative easy to understand the interface and support. The fact that it is an open source code makes supporting stuff like TunerStudio available which levels the tuning field a bunch. And with it's cost savings, people are able to spend additional money in other areas of the build since they aren't having to pay to support some other person's racing/boating/whatever habit.

We have a local auto-x/hillclimber here who has mad skills with code/electronics who has built a crx that is turbo and super charged all running on MS that was faster up a local hill than everything except a LS motor'd Locost with big wings and wide tires, could he have done it on another SEM, probably, but HE did the total build and hardware and I think even some of the coding to hake it all work. For the longest time I thought he had swapped a 2L motor into it, but, I have subsequently found out he still has the 1.6L motor in it. It makes the build even more impressive when you see the car run, it flat scoots and blows me away every time I see it run.

Forgive my rant, just sitting in an airport waiting for a flight.....


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## 1slovrt (Aug 18, 2015)

Has anybody else realized that like every third post on the carbs, itbs and sem forum is about megasquirt taking a **** on them? You dont see alot of lugtronic problems and hardly ever see aem problems. Just somthing i noticed.opcorn:


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

In the six or seven years my Rabbit was on MS, it never left me stranded. Ever. And it was a used Patatron unit, so it was at least ten years old when the car was hit. If the board is built by somebody that knows what they are doing, and the supporting install is good, I see no problems. I'm sure I put well over 100K miles on mine with the only problems coming from 30+yr old wiring original to the car.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

1slovrt said:


> Has anybody else realized that like every third post on the carbs, itbs and sem forum is about megasquirt taking a **** on them? You dont see alot of lugtronic problems and hardly ever see aem problems. Just somthing i noticed.opcorn:


That's because there are MANY more Vdubbers running MS than run lugtronic or AEM and most if not all of the problems are because as a group Vbubbers are a bunch of tightwads who try and cheap their way through things. Plus as PS2375 noted 30 plus year old OEM wiring can be problematic.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

B4S said:


> I'm confused. Something doesn't have to be the BEST to be a spec'd product for racing series, it just has to be the one that came in with the best offer for sponsorship to the organizers.
> 
> Do you run AEM on your car or do you just feel that strongly about it?


Don't be confused. It's quite simple really. Prof claims that the Infinity sucks because it's buggy and that the firmware sucks. I think one could most certainly say that it probably doesn't suck if it's being used as spec ECUs in multiple high-level race divisions. Certainly they would vet the system to ensure it actually isn't bugging and doesn't suck. I never claimed that the Infinity was the BEST - just that it definitely doesn't suck. And SCCA TA definitely isn't spec miata or solo autocross - it's some pretty serious racing. Prof says it sucks because Scott Clark, who is the best tuner in the world, doesn't like it like he's some tuning authority. Prof doesn't realize that the tuning world is actually pretty big and that there are many, many other tuners that do the exact same thing that Scott does and tune just as many winning vehicles but don't have to beat their chest on the internet to prove it. All tuning is is making AFR's go to target and dialing in ignition timing. All EMS's do that and they all do it in relatively the same way. It's just the plus or minus keys. Add timing until it stops making power, take it back a couple degrees. Done. Scott Clark can't press plus or minus keys any better than any other tuner. Stop making it seem like tuning is some magical process that only a highly skilled "calibration engineer" can do. It's easy once you learn how to do it.

One awesome thing about the Infinity is that it's model based and is essentially "open source" without users having to know programming/coding. You can tweek how the system works by editing the model algorithms. It's basically just a bad ass controls systems that's been setup to do engine management. You could build models to control anything. This is why groups like NASA and SCCA like the Infinity because it can be quickly tweeked to work to their requirements and then locked down. BTW I'd love to hear what horrible firmware bugs it has that AEM refuses to fix because I haven't encountered any. Also, AEM has awesome support - if you need something, you can just call and you're dealing with the actual manufacturer of the system and not some third party. 

Also note that Prof came in here slinging the AEM sucks comments - I never said anything bad about MS. MS is great in fact for those who like "build-a-box" EMS projects and like to fiddle around with stuff but it wasn't until the MS3 came out that it could even do sequential fueling/ignition. I mean come on, everyone was doing that like 20 years ago. No internal logging, no USB comms, no drive by wire control. I'll stick with the Infinity. And yes, I've install and tuned many of them. I work on more of the developmental side of the industry so I don't advertise that I have an awd chassis dyno and a shop. I don't need to unlike some other tuners who feel they need to act like internet a-holes and they talk trash and self promote themselves to make the sheep think they're the best. Is the Infinity the absolute "best" EMS? I don't know that that can be answered without some qualifying criteria but I will say that it has a LOT of features and functions for the price.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

My only experience with AEM is tuning the old V1s back in the day at the shop, and they were DEFINITELY buggy. I had a DSM box on my 16v, with the CAS adapted to the head, and it was a nightmare of burned coil drivers and injector circuits (I was using a full DSM harness too). The extended cranking period at startup was also a known issue with the V1 DSM boxes. I wouldn't say I hate AEM stuff now, but the PnP V1s turned a lot of our customers off, because we were constantly troubleshooting problems that inevitably ended up with an RMA request to AEM. MS2 PnPs and MS3Pro has been a boon to our area, so yeah, I've got a lot more experience with those now, vs. the other brands.

I absolutely hated the older AEM tuning software though, because it was irritating to navigate on anything other than a 17" laptop screen. 

If someone would come in with an AEM Infinity and want us to install it, we would, but there's just no justification for the price, at least in our market. A $4000 standalone for someone who has to pay someone else to do the tuning isn't a good idea, because it is too feature-rich. For a high-end client, maybe, but the average customer just won't need more than 1/8 of what it has to offer. If that's the case, then it makes more sense to go with a cheaper product that can do 99% of the same things out of that 1/8th.

I'd like to try an Infinity at some point, if MS3 never develops DBW or Direct Injection control.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

$4000? The small Infinity costs $1500. Some adapter harnesses are $250-$300. You're rocking and rolling for way less than $2000. The full 1.8t Infinity setup is like $1900 and comes with a rippin base cal that drives a stock car perfectly. That gets you way ahead in the tuning process. A custom app will take more time to setup and tune but that's what you have to deal with when working with a custom app.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's close to $4000 for me, I'm in Canada, lol.


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## 1slovrt (Aug 18, 2015)

If i started manufacturing wiring harneses for the infinity 6 for the vr6 would i have anybodys intrest?


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

I'm thinking of doing mkiii and vr6 mkiv Infinity adapter harnesses. Just need a car to do development work on. Hit me up if you're interested and in So Cal.


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