# Phaeton 3.0 TDI V6 2008 engine stall on low RPM



## shamash (Jan 27, 2014)

Hi all,

I have, a very unussual problem, my Phaeton stalls sometimes on low RPM, and errors on VCDS SAE P0087.
After a stall, I start up again and drive normally without a error on my dashboard, until another stall occurs, they are occuring always on low RPM, more frequently when car is turning ( intersections are a b...ch ).

The things I've done so far to get rid of the problem is:

- Replaced fuel filter
- Replaced Fuel Pressure Regulator
- Checked if there is aluminium in Fuel Pump Filter ( there wasn't ) - cleaned it anyways

btw. there was no indication of aluminium in any of the parts that were replaced, so I think it's safe to assume fuel pump is ok.

Of course non of these helped and I'm having a hard time diagnosing the issue.
After the replacement of Fulel pressure regulator I've drived with my friend with attached VCDS and gathered logs og pressure in fuel rail:










This part of log is during attempted right turn, when engine died.

Any ideas ??

P. S.

I'll replace Fuel Pressure Sensor tomorrow, but don't expect much...


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

deleted, as I was on my phone !


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

My fault, should have read the post properly! You may have a seized tensioner which is causing belt friction which could stall the engine, have u listened to the pas pump when u turn the wheel? 

Regards , taz


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi,
What measuring blocks are you logging? 
To me, the fuel temperature is way too high. It is more likeky to be either the oil temperature or the coolant temperature.
In addition, the fuel pressure is fairly low.

Gabriel


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi,
> What measuring blocks are you logging?
> To me, the fuel temperature is way too high. It is more likeky to be either the oil temperature or the coolant temperature.
> In addition, the fuel pressure is fairly low.
> ...


Have you seen these documents?
I can't advise but hope they help...
http://forum.a8parts.co.uk/showthread.php?p=86878
40-Service Manual TDI injection and glow plug system (6-cyl 3 0 ltr 4-valve common rail ASB & .pdf
25-Service Manual Fuel supply system diesel engines ASB, ASE, BNG, BVN & BMC.pdf


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## shamash (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks, for all your advices, values on the screenshot are prior to engine stall, so yes as per the problem the fuel pressure is low.

Does anyone know or is willing to check, the fuel pressure on 3.0 TDI working phaeton on idle work ??

Mine is about about 450bar/750RPM on hot engine, but occasionally ( checked immedietly after engine died ), pressure is jumping between values below 200bar ( 190bar havent seen lower ) and 450bar, when this happens my interior lights are glittering and checking voltage reveals that it is also jumping between 12,5 - 14,5V , like something is creating some kind of resistance on alternator ( hope its tensioner problem _Taz_ ). Car is trying to compensate adding more fuel to injectors and increasing RPMs, you can hear the increase of RPMs, but the RPM meter won't even budge 

Gonna check the tensioner and report back.
Oh and Gabs08PHTN I'm not using VCDS but VAG CAN PRO (almost same features), so I really don't know which temperature is measured there, it says its fuel but it can be coolant or oil too .

P.S.

During acceleration pressure is about 1810bar.


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Hello,

here is a VCDS screenshot of my 3.0TDi at idle. The "Pressure" block is, I presume, fuel pressure.
It was at about 312 Bar when the engine was initially started, then dropped to this value (298 Bar) after about 5 mins.

Good luck,
Robbie


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## shamash (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks robbie-rocket-pants for screenshot, I can assume the pressure does not jump around or drops below 200bar ?

Your Phaeton seems to have very high idle RPM, or maybe mine has it set a little too low ?


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

The pressure is fairly steady, just going up and down +-10 every now and again.
I think it is idling a bit high because it is cold. I'll check to see what it does when warm when I get chance.

Cheers, Robbie


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Shamash,
These are the readings at iddle of my Phaeton:

Rpm: 756.
Mean injection quantity: 7mg per stroke.
Rail pressure: 298.2 bar.
Coolant temperature: 88.2ºC.

AFAIK, at iddle, the mean injection quantity should be 4 to 11mg/stroke and your readings are higher than that. There is a second regulating valve at the high pressure injection pump, perhaps that one is causing havoc in the system.
It would be worth to check MVB number 20, that one displays the specified rail pressure required by the ECU at field 2 and also the actual rail pressure at field 3.
Also have a look at MVB 18 field 3, at iddle it should display 15. If you increase the engine speed to 1500-2000rpm it should change to a different figure (that I do not recall right now) indicating that the pressure regulation strategy has changed.
I hope it helps.

Gabriel


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## shamash (Jan 27, 2014)

Thanks Gabs08PHTN and Robbie for your assistance,

I've checked the error again and it was somewhat diffrent after replacing the pressure regulator, it said something along the lines wrong or no adaptation.

Do I have to adapt the regulator after replacement ?? If yest whats the procedure, I couldn't find anything about adapting pressure regulator .

Gabs08PHTN by second regulating valve do you mean the thing with filter at the end, with cable lines attached ?










And as for reading you mentioned:










Don't know why MVB 18 3rd reading should matter, its the temperature of air being sucked


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## shamash (Jan 27, 2014)

Hi,

after a while of absence it's time to sum up my experiences with this problem.

The car is running ok now ( no stalling, no dying ), it seems that the culprit was the fuel pressure regulator ( the one attached to rail not the one in fuel pump ), it had to adapt itself and that is done automatically it seems, after a longer drive.

Thanks for all your help and contribution.

Regards,

Shamash


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Well done


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Congratulations! I am glad to hear that your Phaeton is alive and kicking again. Gabriel


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## MGM-MG (Dec 10, 2018)

*Тtrembling arrow and changing RPM*

Hello guys,

This is my first post here so sorry if i wrote in a wrong place.

I'm owner of VW Phaeton 3.0 TDI 233hp from 2007 and i love this car but recently a strange problem is appear.


When I start the engine, the car is normally running for the first few minutes, and after warming, it gets flicker in the arrow, or rather it is like an interruption, and the arrow drops sharply and then climbs up again. When this happens, there is also a vibration in the passenger compartment and flashing of the stops lights and light of the passenger compartment. Like there are not enough power. I also apply a video link from google drive to see the RPM of the car.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13G0evvL9LFCKQxcwJrQqghDwqCkULarE/view?usp=sharing

I check the car with VCDS and there are no errors saved but the batteries are charging with 14V(starter battery on the right side) and 13.5(AGM Battery for electronics-left side). Is this a normal ?

I'm not quite sure the problem is with batteries or battery management module or something else.

I will be very thankful for some advice's.

Thank you all.

MG


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

MG,

What's the arrow? 

Is that a diesel thing?

-Eric


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## MGM-MG (Dec 10, 2018)

Hello Eric,

I apologize if I did not say it clearly enough because English is not my born language :0 

With arrow i mean it the arrow that shows Tachometer RPM, Car tachometer arrow revving, Engine rpm meter - I hove i hit the right word for it 

BR,

MG


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## MGM-MG (Dec 10, 2018)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> MG,
> 
> What's the arrow?
> 
> ...


Hello Eric,

I apologize if I did not say it clearly enough because English is not my born language :0 

With arrow i mean it the arrow that shows Tachometer RPM, Car tachometer arrow revving, Engine rpm meter - I hove i hit the right word for it 

BR,

MG


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think he means needle, the RPM needle.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Yes, it makes complete sense now. I thought it was a warning symbol having something to do with diesel engines. 

A gauge needle or pointer or a watch hand often does look like an arrow. Omega actually made a Chromometer with arrow shaped hands and when they brought out the tribute to it, they called it the "Broad Arrow."


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

MGM-MG said:


> Hello Eric,
> 
> I apologize if I did not say it clearly enough because English is not my born language :0
> 
> ...


Yes, I understand now. Tachometer is the correct term in English for the gauge than shows RPM.

You can call the thing that points at the numbers a needle or pointer and I will understand now if you call it an arrow. 

-Eric


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I much prefer the arrow terminology.


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## MGM-MG (Dec 10, 2018)

Hello, today i spotted something strange about the problem with trembling needle of RPM meter. When i switch off the climate control the problem disappear. Also and trembling lights of saloon lighting. But immediatly when turn on climate control the problem is back. Can this be only from battery ?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Battery or alternator. Check the battery first. Measure the voltage with the engine off (the big battery on the left).


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## MGM-MG (Dec 10, 2018)

invisiblewave said:


> Battery or alternator. Check the battery first. Measure the voltage with the engine off (the big battery on the left).


 Thanks, I will do it ASAP and write back the result.


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