# Going Deaf? IE Bosch 044 Submerged Pump Surge Tanks are HERE!



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We're proud to announce this innovative fueling solution from Integrated Engineering. This is a surge tank which submerges roughly 80% of the Bosch 044 pump in fuel, giving it excellent pick up, as well as very quiet operation. 

The pump is mounted using a billet front cover plate, which has been carefully engineered right here in Salt Lake City. The fit of the O ring seal of course is critical, and was the subject of several prototypes as well as much development. The front plates also house 3 x O ring boss -6 AN ports, for quick, clean hookups in and out of the surge tank. No thread sealing compound is required, for a very clean installation. The cover plate is also entirely machined out on the back side, to increase trapped volume and decrease weight. This truly aerospace grade component is machined completely in house. A red anodized clamping plate is included which retains the pump in it's pocket. 

The remainder of the tank is 1/8" wall aluminum, tig welded, and then black wrinkle powder coated. The trapped volume of fuel is a surprisingly large 1.5L, meanwhile the overall dimensions are a mere 5.5" X 8" x 4.25"- that INCLUDES the pump people! You will never fit a separate pump and tank into this kind of volume. They fit well underneath the driver or passenger side frame horns on a mk4 or b5 / b6, and can be mounted either horizontally as shown in pictures, or vertically. 

*Please click here for special intro pricing! *

Don't hesitate to call or email if you have questions: 

888.60.INTENG
[email protected] 

A few more photos: 


















Lastly, here is a plumbing schematic which will probably answer some questions: 

http://intengineering.net/images/plumbing_schematic.PDF


Thanks guys!


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

nifty 

Any pictures of proposed install locations?


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## halchka99 (Apr 18, 2002)

awesome, perfect for the underside of the mk2. will be picking one up!

:thumbup:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Gonna run one of these on my R32. My Bosch is waaaaay too loud. Plus the added security of a surge tank is a huge plus. :thumbup:


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

excellent....


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## Mike Pauciullo (Jan 8, 2009)

nice stuff guys :thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

wow this would go perfect with my fuel cell and such in my MKI


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

If you are doing a fuel cell, email me- it's possible just to weld the front plate right into your fuel cell. You won't need the 3 o ring boss bungs, but that's why they make plugs. I can sell the front plates seperate for that purpose, I've got 70 or so! 

Pete


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> If you are doing a fuel cell, email me- it's possible just to weld the front plate right into your fuel cell. You won't need the 3 o ring boss bungs, but that's why they make plugs. I can sell the front plates seperate for that purpose, I've got 70 or so!
> 
> Pete


YESSIR!!!! its what i did for twin pumps in my cell!!!!

Pete; my AIM has been BORKED for awhile, sorry i havent been able to give you progress reports direct


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

Nice work :thumbup: Pete I sent you an PM


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## HidRo (Sep 19, 2003)

So, this can be used with the stock 16V pump, right? It's loud as hell, as well!
Just to make sure, that 044 is an inline, right? Are there any connections inside the little tank?:thumbup:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

HidRo said:


> So, this can be used with the stock 16V pump, right? It's loud as hell, as well!
> Just to make sure, that 044 is an inline, right? Are there any connections inside the little tank?:thumbup:


You would feed the tank with your stock fuel pump, then the 044 would feed your fuel rail from the tank. :thumbup:


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

HidRo said:


> So, this can be used with the stock 16V pump, right? It's loud as hell, as well!
> Just to make sure, that 044 is an inline, right? Are there any connections inside the little tank?:thumbup:



this is made for an 044 pump inside the surge tank. the 044 that goes into this is an inline. it can be fed with any pump. the only connection inside would be a 90 fitting off the intake of the pump pointed down to minimize the chance of sucking air. there is no other connections internally.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

I don't quite understand. Doesn't an inline suck fuel pass/thru the intank? So, when you remove the inline and place it into a separate tank, doesn't the intank have to fill and keep filled the surge tank as fast as the 044 pump it to the rail? Or the 044 will start sucking air?


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

elRey said:


> I don't quite understand. Doesn't an inline suck fuel pass/thru the intank? So, when you remove the inline and place it into a separate tank, doesn't the intank have to fill and keep filled the surge tank as fast as the 044 pump it to the rail? Or the 044 will start sucking air?


the intank pump fills the surge tank which contains the 044 pump.

the 044 pump feeds the rail.

ALL OF THE RETURNING FUEL GOES TO THE SURGE TAKE. there is no car on the planet that uses all of the fuel pumped to the fuel rail, so the return has to go somewhere.

and the stock intank pump keeps pumping fuel into the surge tank as well.

the surge tank remains full, and one of the ports on it is an overflow return to the fuel tank in the car in case it gets too full.


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

elRey said:


> I don't quite understand. Doesn't an inline suck fuel pass/thru the intank? So, when you remove the inline and place it into a separate tank, doesn't the intank have to fill and keep filled the surge tank as fast as the 044 pump it to the rail? Or the 044 will start sucking air?


Edit: ^He beat me to it.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

The reason anyone upgrades the fuel pump is usually because the stock pump can't keep rail pressure at max power, right? doesn't that mean no return fuel? So, now the 044 is taking over that job. When it's inline, it doesn't matter if stock pump can't keep up, because it pulls the fuel pass it. 

But now, the 044 is un-coupled and draws it's fuel from surge tank only, right? Granted, it will have return fuel when the stock didn't, but at max power return will be less than feed. And feed-return will still be greater than stock pump. So, the surge level will decrease (a max power). So, you now have to rely on the surge holding enough fuel for feed - return - stock feed for the time your in max power. I guess this is the way all the big boys do it. Not being one, I've never looked into it and am now just lerning about it.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

A Bosch 044 is going to supply more than enough fuel to support most of the power levels that people are putting down here. That means plenty of unused fuel coming back to the surge tank. You can always run dual 044's which I believe IE is also working on, but that is for people wanting close to 1000 HP.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

I'm not sure I'm making my self clear.

pulling these numbers out of the air....

max power requires 250 lph
044 pumps 300lph
50 lph gets returned
total pumped from surge is 250 lph

stock pumps 115 lph

So, at max power you have 250 lph going out of the surge and 115 lph going in.


Or and I WAY off?


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

you are way off.

you forgot the 50lph coming back in from the rail, stating only 115lph returning to surge. 300lph out, 115lph + 50lph coming in.

my main point is, THIS FORMULA ONLY APPLIES TO WOT. how often do you think you can or will sustain WOT for a 250lph usage of fuel? not very often and not for long periods of time. this will sustain probably 30-40 seconds as only a guess, of WOT, before it may need help. can you go WOT for that long? nope.

so when not at WOT, which is going to be 93% of the time, the surge tank will be FULL AND READY TO GO. make sense?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Richard_Cranium said:


> you are way off.
> 
> you forgot the 50lph coming back in from the rail, stating only 115lph returning to surge. 300lph out, 115lph + 50lph coming in.
> 
> ...



:thumbup:

So, this surge has enough capcity to keep the 044 air free under any reasonable WOT run.

And check my numbers again, thay match what you're say


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

put my fuelcell purchase on hold..pete..i will im you, perhaps we can do a deal for fueltank, lines,surge tank,etc


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

yes. the number stated both ways are the same.

and this should be fine to sustain everything that normal cars would require.

a Texas mile car? it might sustain that, depends on how long they are in top gear.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

:bowsdown:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

The other thing to remember is that now that the in tank pump is not pushing into any pressure- (zero) it flows a hell of a lot. Go look up any fuel pump flow chart, and notice that they usually flow ~2x at 0psi what they do at 4 bar. 

Checking PM's now... 

Thanks for the orders so far guys!


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## coolvdub (Feb 19, 2000)

Pete,

Good job on the surge tank/muffler. The price seems well within reason. Will be looking to get one, when I eventually go BT. We couldn't build them that inexpensively at the shop I work at.

Don


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

elRey said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> So, this surge has enough capcity to keep the 044 air free under any reasonable WOT run.
> 
> And check my numbers again, thay match what you're say


check your injector sizing and fuel consumption figures to get your answer.
fpr fuel return to tank or swirlpot is the missing bit of your initial calculation, along with the actual fuel likely to be consummed.

twin 044's in my setup, Audi S3 intank pump supplies them fine.. for max wot time of 38secs before the thing runs out of delivery... Plenty in real world and race use for me


Nice idea Pete: :thumbup:


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

...not to mention the "less than 1/4 tank" issue that this arangement takes are of...
Good alternative product !:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## rogerius (Jun 14, 2004)

...not to mention the "less than 1/4 tank" issue that this arangement takes care of...
Good alternative product !:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Navydub (Sep 30, 2006)

Good god this thing is nice! Do want, maybe I'll add this to the 'mini-build' this winter when I do some more fuel and cooling upgrades


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks for the support so far guys


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## inivid (Aug 25, 2003)

*fap* :thumbup:


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

nice product


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Thanks guys!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Guys, I'm looking for feedback about what size and shape you would like a twin 044 surge tank to be. Any car IMO running twins is going to be more race oriented- but still finding a spot big enough to put a dual tank is more challenging. 

Hit up this thread with your suggestions for mount spots and / or sizes / volumes of tanks. I was thinking 3-3.5L is plenty, but still we gotta find a spot for it. 

We're going to start design on the twin version this week- there are a few other products already in production ahead of it though. :thumbup:


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

always cool stuff from Pete and Dave....

wonder whats new on the design board? do i need it or have to have it?

my AIM is totally fooked Pete. i should reload it.....


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I have one part / kit you'll want next time your trans is out, I suspect. It should be done in 2 weeks or so, the material should be here tomorrow. The mill is tied up chewing through a batch of 250 of something else right now though so that will hold it up a bit. 

After those projects we'll start on these dual surge tanks- the surge tanks are a bit slow due to the many steps. 

Just use aimexpress.com if you are lazy and don't want to d*ck with it.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Bump


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Hit up this thread with your suggestions for mount spots and / or sizes / volumes of tanks. I was thinking 3-3.5L is plenty, but still we gotta find a spot for it.


on the mkiv, what about behind the passenger the fender liner where those blue-ball vacuum canister is?

I think there's enough volume behind there to get the 3L you want 

or, what about making a surge tank inside the existing gas tank?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I'll pull the fender liner out and take a look- I need to pull out the blue balls anyways on dave's car. Inside the tank would be pretty trick but pretty damn hard to pull off I think.

-Pete


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Bump!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Getting ready for another batch to be made.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## IAmTheNacho (Oct 26, 2003)

Has anyone had sucess in running a single pump setup and E85? I was thinking of doing a dual setup to run E85.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

IAmTheNacho said:


> Has anyone had sucess in running a single pump setup and E85? I was thinking of doing a dual setup to run E85.


The single tank will be fine for E85 use, just remember that E85 uses ~30% more fuel so the pump will not flow 650hp anymore. The dual 044 surge tanks are in the works, so keep your eyes open for them. 

Cassidy


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I'm working on the dual versions right now- just doing the design work. What do you guys think about the following parameters: 

4.25" tall, 6" wide (not including tabs, about 8" with mount tabs), 8" deep including pumps... Actual surge tank w/o pumps 6.75" deep. 

Trapped volume of fuel 2.3L. I can easily make it bigger, but I'm afraid nobody will be able to find a place to mount it. 

I'm also presently planning -6 inlets / outlets, should cover -6 or -8 return lines. 

Sneak Peak: 











Give us your feedback, NOW is the time!


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

I like it
would it fit were the fuel filter for a mk2?
like this photo of my buddies car


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Yes, no problem. We're also considering making an optional manifold for the outlets so that people just have a single -8 or -10 outlet as well. It'd slip over the check valves and go on with an acorn nut over each. Gives you the protection of check valves, no extra cost of buying a pair of valves, and eliminate 5-6 fittings.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

the dual tank looks awesome!


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

what would the cost for one of these units?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We aren't sure yet, still in the design stages. I'll start quoting out the components we can't do in house tomorrow, and figure out the cost of materials for the billet parts, etc. It'll be a bit more then the single tank, that's for sure.


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

Hit me up when it's done. I'll take the first one


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## 04 GLI Luva (May 30, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I'm working on the dual versions right now- just doing the design work. What do you guys think about the following parameters:
> 
> 4.25" tall, 6" wide (not including tabs, about 8" with mount tabs), 8" deep including pumps... Actual surge tank w/o pumps 6.75" deep.
> 
> ...


There's a ton of room between the bumper and frame rail on the passenger side, I'd even consider mounting it vertically onto the frame rail. Thats where I had my water/meth pump mounted with pleanty of room to spare.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Yep, that's where I put the single tank as well. With charge piping going through there, it gets smaller quite quickly though as it gets bisected somewhat. I think if one was creative, it could fit there, especially if the charge piping can work around it somewhat. The double version so far isn't actually all that much bigger then the single, but once you add fittings etc to the end, it's getting bulky. 

Still, it's incredibly compact for the amount of fuel system gear it's cramming into one area. MK4's are just tough for this. 

The nice thing about the front install is you can just take the factory lines, slice off the hoses, and push on your own 5/16" lines, down to the tank. Then for the high pressure stuff you just need like 6-8 feet or so of aeroquip etc.


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## 04 GLI Luva (May 30, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The nice thing about the front install is you can just take the factory lines, slice off the hoses, and push on your own 5/16" lines, down to the tank. Then for the high pressure stuff you just need like 6-8 feet or so of aeroquip etc.


Yep :thumbup: 
Thats my plan, saves a ton of money on lines, fittings, inline fuel filter...
Ditching the windsheild washer reservoir can buy a lot of space too.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Thanks guys, a few more of these are going out today. 

Take advantage of our intro pricing special. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks guys, a few more of these are going out today.
> 
> Take advantage of our intro pricing special. :beer:


I was told by a good friend to hold out and wait for these ... I see why now. It is a great idea how do I receive pricing on the surge tank and attaching hardware for the 044 pump (I have the pump already)?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Which attaching parts specifically are you looking for? 

Pete


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

Everything except the pump and hose (it was mentioned that a 90 deg inlet was needed on the pump - in the sump). I would need the hardware to attach the 90 as well as the hardware to attach the pump to the sump.


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## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

What fitting goes on the suction side(submerged) side of the pump? Is a fuel sock needed?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

No sock is needed, as there is one on the OE "lift" pump. You either run nothing, or if you want to get every last bit of fuel, an M18 x 1.5 to whatever 90 degree, for horizontal installation, or an M18 x 1.5 to whatever straight, for vertical installation.


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

> Yes, no problem. We're also considering making an optional manifold for the outlets so that people just have a single -8 or -10 outlet as well. It'd slip over the check valves and go on with an acorn nut over each. Gives you the protection of check valves, no extra cost of buying a pair of valves, and eliminate 5-6 fittings.


I like that idea. Couple it with a large diameter fuel rail that actually takes a -8 or -10 inlet fitting.


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## Caged_Bora_R1.8T (Oct 2, 2006)

Would it be possible in the future to order the dual pump setup with the mounting tabs on the bottom of the tank? Reason why is I would like to mount it in the spare tire well (mkIV Jetta) there I don't think there would be a space issue so a bigger tank for the duals would be great. :thumbup:


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

gtimitch said:


> Everything except the pump and hose (it was mentioned that a 90 deg inlet was needed on the pump - in the sump). I would need the hardware to attach the 90 as well as the hardware to attach the pump to the sump.


Apologies for the stupid question Pete, I overlooked the hyperlinks at the beginning of your thread. It is a great idea and I'm ordering mine today (if they are in stock). Sure do appreciate all the hard work you guys invest to continually make the 1.8 community competitive with the latest technology.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

> gtimitch
> Originally Posted by gtimitch
> Everything except the pump and hose (it was mentioned that a 90 deg inlet was needed on the pump - in the sump). I would need the hardware to attach the 90 as well as the hardware to attach the pump to the sump.
> Apologies for the stupid question Pete, I overlooked the hyperlinks at the beginning of your thread. It is a great idea and I'm ordering mine today (if they are in stock). Sure do appreciate all the hard work you guys invest to continually make the 1.8 community competitive with the latest technology.



No problem, and yes, they are in stock  




> Caged_Bora_R1.8T
> Would it be possible in the future to order the dual pump setup with the mounting tabs on the bottom of the tank? Reason why is I would like to mount it in the spare tire well (mkIV Jetta) there I don't think there would be a space issue so a bigger tank for the duals would be great.


Good suggestion, we had already been talking about how to accommodate mounting in that manner. We'll either have them available "upside down", or we're also considering some "dip tubes" for the pump inlets. 




> bobqzzi
> I like that idea. Couple it with a large diameter fuel rail that actually takes a -8 or -10 inlet fitting.


Not a fan of the ATP one with the 1/2" Pipe thread? The RMR one is / was much higher quality, too bad it was only -6. We'll certainly consider it, I'll have to see if we want to do something billet and then have them gun drilled, or go for it and have some extrusion done. 

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I have the sheetmetal work out for quote right now on the twin pump ones- I'm going to finalize the design on the front covers shortly and work them into our production "schedule".


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

Pete,

edited -- your web site seems to be working perfectly...


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Mitchell,

Thank you for your order, it went out today. 

As far as the website problem goes, it should be sorted. I appreciate you informing me of the problem.

:beer:

Thanks, Cassidy


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Where have you guys mounted them?


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Where have you guys mounted them?


IDK just yet....


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

I just got one of these- it is nicely designed and made


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

bobqzzi said:


> I just got one of these- it is nicely designed and made


Thanks Bob.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

gtimitch said:


> IDK just yet....



How is the sump engineered to be mounted? The pump on top or the bottom?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

It's meant to have the pump on the bottom, but it could be mounted "upside down" if a pickup tube of some sort is put onto the pump inlet. It's designed to be really flexible that way. 

It can also be mounted vertically, with the pump outlet pointing up.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> It's meant to have the pump on the bottom, but it could be mounted "upside down" if a pickup tube of some sort is put onto the pump inlet. It's designed to be really flexible that way.
> 
> It can also be mounted vertically, with the pump outlet pointing up.


Thanks Pete, this is an awesome idea and I think it can actually fill in the gap for those of us who want to run smaller fuel line and rails. I'm not being naive, there are those who will need the extra capacity of dual pumps and 8 - 10 AN fuel line and rails, but this is an awesome part for the entire 1.8 community. Thanks, I just received mine and it is a quality piece.

Also want to send-out a thanks to Jeff - for just insisting that I wait a while longer for something really good........


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Another batch in the works!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Thanks for the orders!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)




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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Only a few more days of intro pricing guys... this Friday is the last day!


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Bump!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Intro pricing ends tomorrow!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Goes great with some new rods


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

I can't hardly believe none have come forward with their mounting locations, come-on where are you putting this little trick piece of technology? Has anyone mounted it in the front of the car near the side mount intercooler location?


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Dave has his mounted under the frame horn on the passenger side. Pete's MKII has it under the rear seat. I'm think the drivers side frame horn on my R32 is the spot for me. I saw some early machine work on the dual pump tank and it is looking great.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

:sly:


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Stay tuned! Dual tanks are on the way!


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

Is it necessary to use a fitting on the inlet side of the pump when using your sump? This side of the pump will stay submerged in fuel correct?


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

gtimitch said:


> Is it necessary to use a fitting on the inlet side of the pump when using your sump? This side of the pump will stay submerged in fuel correct?


i will be, to make it sure to draw all from the lowest point. and i would with the sump as sold, as well.

i will be remaking my fuel cell to incorporate the plates i got from Pete, that have no ports for lines.... and i will mount the plates such that the inlet part will be under fuel in a dropped down portion.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

Can you please share your plan with me in the form of a drawing or diagram. I will be mounting mine in the horizontal direction and I want to use the one way valve that comes with the 044 pump (single) (unless I am advised otherwise). I do not full understand what you are doing (dau -a little brain dead)..Are you modifieng the sump or is there more about the initial setup that you can share with me.
Bear in mind I plan to run stock to the engine bay and then use 6AN to the sump and from the rail back to the sump. I will then use a six AN from the rail to the return. Do you need additional info to give good advice? 
Thanks my friend for all your help.....


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

Aaron,
Would something like this work? I haven't added a tube section , only the 180 fitting to accept fuel from the bottom of the sump...








These metric fittings are from a new site I discovered:
http://www.google.com/url?url=http:...sg=AFQjCNHwlB2V6vcKxBdqhM86yIGLZEPGqA&cad=rja


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

yes, Mitch, that would work fine, it would probably need to be rotated a little.... i think i have one of those i would give you for nothing.

and BAT is the place for Mocal stuff, just got some things there last week actually.

i have not drawn up my diagram you asked for yet, as i have not drained the cell.

but i think just a regular 90 would do the same.... just as long as it draws from the bottom.... the pump does sit pretty low in there.... and that surge WILL always be full....


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

Aaron,

I sent you a PM. Thanks for your help my friend.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

I don't mean to bore you folks with these diagrams but I have one last picture of the way I intend to use the new trick surge tank:










Thanks for all your help Aaron...


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

check you out w/ the part numbers!


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

I'm reuploading the image to my server too.


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

man, Mitch, you make the nicest drawings. i myself do MS Paint, and it looks like a 3 yr old with crayons hopped up on Mt Dew draws it LOL.

one fitting wrong i think. the outlet of the pump comes stock with a banjo or no fittings IIRC. and do not forget you must purchase a 5mm and a 6mm nut for the terminals.

one little bit of advice is to make a pigtail that will stay permanently mounted to the pump, so you can unplug it easily without messing with the two terminals all the time, or everytime it comes out.

my last advice; if it were me i would run -8AN to the rail. not that i think what you have wont work, i just do things with overkill. i run -10AN to the rail and -6AN return.... on dual 044's.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

Thanks my friend, as usual, your advise is very valuable to me and I will incorporate the ideas into my plan. You mentioned the Banjo one way fitting on the outlet of the pump...can I use this fitting (I like the one way flow idea) and simply use a metric hose end to connect to the pump or would the Banjo restrict flow substantially?

I have one other question that I have asked in another thread regarding the 5/16 adapters. I would like to have a very clean setup by hiding the connectors beneath the factory cover and expose just the 90 degree hose ends coming from the cover and going to the sump - but the answer to this question is dependent on my plan. Here is a diagram to explain my question (it is a little crude):










Any help would be very much appreciated (I have a question posted to Jegs but so far I have no response.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

I have my answer from Jegs. The adapter uses the factory tube lock so there is no way I can conceal it the way I originally planned --- I may explore another option...


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

I think these little trick fittings will fit over the stock fuel filter ---Yep, that may be the new plan, what do you guys think???????


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

i will absolutely be picking one of these up. it will be a nice addition to my gt3071 set up....as soon as my APR stage3+ kit sells


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

this is a great product for use people not looking to upgrade the lines to the tank but still need fuel for a drag racing set up. it allows us to run new lines, rail, fpr, and the secondary pump in a clean fashion. 

We will be putting one on our new set up as soon as we get incontact with IE about correct fittings. There is plenty of room for it in the behind the front bumper which also helps with the shortned length of lines needed to efficiently run set up. :thumbup: for a great product.


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

looking forward to ordering mine in the next week or 2. anyone have an install pik on a mk4?


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## Dave[email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

I haven't snapped any photos of where I mounted mine. There are enough out there thought that someone must have...

Dual pump surge tanks are coming guys!


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I haven't snapped any photos of where I mounted mine. There are enough out there thought that someone must have...
> 
> Dual pump surge tanks are coming guys!


ok ive been looking, i really havent see any. if you get a chance dave it would be great if you could post or if anyone else could post up some install piks on a mk4, i would appreciate it. 

dual set up has gotta be insane. cant wait to see what those go in


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

You will get to see very soon. I had to change my plan and order some additional tubing so there is a little delay -- but it is coming...


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## SGTphatboy (Aug 21, 2004)

ok thanks mitch :beer:


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Dual tanks are getting there..


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

Are the dual pomp plates going to be available separately from the tank?

How are they going to be priced? 

Cheers


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## Rac_337 (Sep 24, 2004)

bump for pics


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## Lysholmrado (Oct 10, 2001)

need pics too for a mk4


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

They should be sold separately as well. No word on the price yet.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

I just received my plumbing parts from JEGS and the 6 AN - 5/16" adapter to the factory lines is much smaller than I expected. I believe I can still use it in the engine bay along with the 90 deg fittings to the New IE Sump and Pump and still have a nice clean set-up. That's good news. As soon as I get the fittings from BAT I should be able to put a few pics up.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Dual tanks are about done!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Update: Dual tanks are finished. I will have pictures, pricing, and they will be available for sale tomorrow morning. :thumbup: :beer:


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

SO.................


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Sorry, apparently tomorrow morning means tomorrow afternoon. 

So, finally the dual 044 surge tanks are complete. They have a billet front cover just like the single tanks, but provide fuel for approximately 1400-1050bhp on gasoline. Adjust accordingly for E85. They are welded up from 8 gauge aluminum which makes them tough enough to withstand under car mounting with little worry of puncture. Capacity is 2.3L, not including volume occupied by the pumps. External dimensions of the box are 7.2" long x 8.1" wide (includes the mount tabs, 6" without) x 4.15" tall. As with any surge tank it is your responsibility to ensure that adequate fuel flow is supplied to the tank to ensure it does not run out of fuel on long runs. 

Prices shown are introductory special prices: 









Billet cover plate by itself- click here









Surge tank assembly- no pumps!









Surge tank assembly- with two genuine bosch 044 pumps

:thumbup: :beer:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

looks good pete. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## fulleloaded (Jul 20, 2008)

*Woow*

Damn good looking product.
What are the chances of fitment with dual walboro's


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

We don't have any plans to offer it with Walbro pumps at the moment. The 044 is much better pump and is also more reliable.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

Got a single for my BMW 2002. Looks TRICK!!!!!!!!! Thanks guys!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

carbide01 said:


> Got a single for my BMW 2002. Looks TRICK!!!!!!!!! Thanks guys!


Glad you like it! :thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

From the other thread: 

What kind of flow do you think it will take to keep the surge tank filled on non-track conditions - highway pulls and a little bit of "fun" driving? a cheap walbro 255?


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> From the other thread:
> 
> What kind of flow do you think it will take to keep the surge tank filled on non-track conditions - highway pulls and a little bit of "fun" driving? a cheap walbro 255?


 my thought? stock pump.


so for those out there that want to mount an 044 pump in your own fabrication, IE does sell just the plates as well. so if you are like into drag racing or something  ..... want to build your own fuel cell. 

my master fabricator does some great work..... and with these plates i gain some engine bay room and get some cool parts to boot 






nubVR said:


> Done with 2 pieces of .125 aluminum......


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

Richard_Cranium said:


> man, Mitch, you make the nicest drawings. i myself do MS Paint, and it looks like a 3 yr old with crayons hopped up on Mt Dew draws it LOL.
> 
> one fitting wrong i think. the outlet of the pump comes stock with a banjo or no fittings IIRC. and do not forget you must purchase a 5mm and a 6mm nut for the terminals.
> 
> ...


 
Aaron, please forward me the drawings for the cardboard box asap, we are going to put that into production next week, but we'll use higher quality duct tape to seal the edges. 

 Clay


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

hey Clay..... sorry, but that is proprietary information  (hint: can probably get the dimensions off the design prototype) . 

missed ya at the show this year, i hung out with Dave and Pete though most of the day.... took a turn standing by at the Booth so they could roam, as well....

but its cool, didnt run this year either. maybe next year LOL.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

do you not have to run a bladder in your fuel cell? I thought that was an NHRA rule?


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## CTS Turbo (Oct 2, 2008)

newto20v said:


> hey Clay..... sorry, but that is proprietary information  (hint: can probably get the dimensions off the design prototype) .
> 
> missed ya at the show this year, i hung out with Dave and Pete though most of the day.... took a turn standing by at the Booth so they could roam, as well....
> 
> but its cool, didnt run this year either. maybe next year LOL.


 
This year was way too busy broski, next year I'll be down there kicking daves shins! I was just messing around man with the kinkos box haha, the car looks great I can't wait to see it next year at waterlands :beer::beer::beer:!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

You're always to busy :sly: 

You better come get some :beer:s next year!


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Pat, 

I think you will be fine with just the stock pump. I've ran a single 044 surge tank fed by the stock pump for a few months now with no issues.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> do you not have to run a bladder in your fuel cell? I thought that was an NHRA rule?


 i have never heard that, and i study those things. but now i will go look into it  .

i have an RCI alum cell i converted to my AWIC res. and the plastic one i had never had one either.

and one of the finishing touches on the cell, above the plates.....


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

does anyone know of a round fuel cell that would fit in the trunk in the spare tire compartment? also, with a fuel cell are they gravity fed with an inline pump or do they have s spot for an intank pumpp, i feel like that is a dumb question but i just dont know the answer for sure. when running a fuel cell what is the usual feed and return AN size of tubing? 


thanks 

derek


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Sorry, but I haven't heard of any. It may be something you will have to fab up.


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

It’s going to be a bit hard to try and install a surge tang inside the engine bay and have it concealed with the pomp’s in a horizontal position

Do you guys think there should be a problem having the dual setup pomp’s standing up vertically?


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

Derek, YGPM.




talx said:


> It’s going to be a bit hard to try and install a surge tang inside the engine bay and have it concealed with the pomp’s in a horizontal position
> 
> Do you guys think there should be a problem having the dual setup pomp’s standing up vertically?


the 044 are gravity fed...... that said, with this type of surge, if the outlet of the pumps were out the top, the feed end would be always submerged. so my opinion (not worth a sh!t on here from what i understand) is that it would be fine..... if i were to do that, i would make certain that i had a fitting on the inlet of the pump to bring it to about 1/4" off the back floor of it. to be certain its always under fuel level.

since the stock pump is pushing (and pressurizing) the surge, you will not have issues feeding the 044('s).

HTH.

Aaron


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

so I am trying to find -6AN O-Ring to 37* flare to mate to the tank and line fittings. 

www.aeroquip.cc doesn't have any does anyone know where I can get some?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

nm found some on Jegs

do you actually need the straight end ones? Or can you just use the 37* to 37* adapters with an O-ring? 

Flow dynamics doesn't matter as long as its not a restriction, there wont be any turbulence to the surge tank and if there is it wont matter.


Ideal.









would this work? plus an o-ring?










I only ask because I have a bunch of the lower fittings on hand.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

Some bumpage for you dude.


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

its fuel. use the right fittings. sure, you may be able to get away with it, and save a few bucks. but if it didnt leak at first, then started to later, and burned your car to the ground how bad would you like to go back in time and spend $10-20 for the right parts?

just sayin.


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## IAmTheNacho (Oct 26, 2003)

ejg3855 said:


> nm found some on Jegs
> 
> do you actually need the straight end ones? Or can you just use the 37* to 37* adapters with an O-ring?
> 
> ...


 From an aircraft mechanics point of view you will be fine. The only difference is the conical shape where a flared tube would go VS the flat side. The shoulder of the nut is the same on both items.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

newto20v said:


> its fuel. use the right fittings. sure, you may be able to get away with it, and save a few bucks. but if it didnt leak at first, then started to later, and burned your car to the ground how bad would you like to go back in time and spend $10-20 for the right parts?
> 
> just sayin.


Its not a cost thing, just a convenience. I agree with your thought.



IAmTheNacho said:


> From an aircraft mechanics point of view you will be fine. The only difference is the conical shape where a flared tube would go VS the flat side. The shoulder of the nut is the same on both items.


Yea this is also what I thought, My theory was I could just mill the end of the fitting and then take a counter sink to the ones I have. It would take me about 4mins in the shop to do if I felt it was needed. But I don't think fuel turbulence will be an issue as the feed from the main tank to the surge. 


Also does anyone know the OD of the surge tank? I see 2.3L but dont got any exterior dimensions.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

ejg3855 said:


> Also does anyone know the OD of the surge tank?


The single tanks are 7Lx4Wx4H" and the duals tanks are 7.5Lx6Wx4". Both of these measurements exclude the mount tabs which stick out about an inch on both sides.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The single tanks are 7Lx4Wx4H" and the duals tanks are 7.5Lx6Wx4". Both of these measurements exclude the mount tabs which stick out about an inch on both sides.



I ordered one anyways  Dowel Pin, Manual Tensioner too.

About 1hr ago, you should include a shirt for me.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Awesome! Your order will be going out today.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Awesome! Your order will be going out today.


Thats why I love IE always ready to ship. :beer:


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

-don't rub it in, I don't have all the cash to buy mine put away yet... Lol...


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

bump for IE.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Aaron I ordered those Jay Racing check valves on your recommendation, they look good.


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

newto20v said:


>


I would personaly like to see another support/mount for the pomp’s on the inside of the surge tank
I think it is essential considering the pomp’s do vibrate and so does the car therefore it is not a good idea having the sealing plate taking all the loud of the pomp’s


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

talx said:


> I would personaly like to see another support/mount for the pomp’s on the inside of the surge tank
> I think it is essential considering the pomp’s do vibrate and so does the car therefore it is not a good idea having the sealing plate taking all the loud of the pomp’s


His mounting plate is 1/2" or greater, I am sure if we conducted an analysis using ANSYS that it would show that system can mount however. I am not saying a rear support is a bad idea just that its not needed.

Oh and whats up with the signature upon deliver????


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

Well I’m not sure about that over time ,that is why I think another support would be a good idea its sometimes better to over engineer :thumbup:

By the way any reason why people are using two check valves directly after the pomp’s instead of one check valve after the Y fitting on a dual pomp setup?





ejg3855 said:


> Oh and whats up with the signature upon deliver????


I’m sorry Is that directed at me?


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

talx said:


> By the way any reason why people are using two check valves directly after the pomp’s instead of one check valve after the Y fitting on a dual pomp setup?


because if one pump were to fail, the path of least resistance is back thru the pump and you would be running with no fuel. lean, det and boom.

this way at least if you had a pump failure you would still have fuel enough for almost all situations.

why would you just use one check after the Y? what would that purpose serve?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

talx said:


> Well I’m not sure about that over time ,that is why I think another support would be a good idea its sometimes better to over engineer :thumbup:
> 
> By the way any reason why people are using two check valves directly after the pomp’s instead of one check valve after the Y fitting on a dual pomp setup?
> 
> ...


Naw it was at IE. I agree over design is good, I was just saying I am sure the single plate is plenty.



newto20v said:


> because if one pump were to fail, the path of least resistance is back thru the pump and you would be running with no fuel. lean, det and boom.
> 
> this way at least if you had a pump failure you would still have fuel enough for almost all situations.
> 
> why would you just use one check after the Y? what would that purpose serve?


The only purpose I can see of a single check valve after the Y would be to keep the system pressurized, but the 2 a the pumps will serve the same goal.


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

newto20v said:


> my thought? stock pump.
> 
> 
> so for those out there that want to mount an 044 pump in your own fabrication, IE does sell just the plates as well. so if you are like into drag racing or something  ..... want to build your own fuel cell.
> ...


Man that thing is huge -- where are you going to mount it (racing, I can understand - but what about for street use?)


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

he is race only, lol, slow, but race only


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## newto20v (Feb 26, 2010)

gtimitch said:


> Man that thing is huge -- where are you going to mount it (racing, I can understand - but what about for street use?)


Mitch, its Aaron.....

that is the whole fuel tank/cell, not a surge tank.


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

newto20v said:


> because if one pump were to fail, the path of least resistance is back thru the pump and you would be running with no fuel. lean, det and boom.
> 
> this way at least if you had a pump failure you would still have fuel enough for almost all situations.
> 
> why would you just use one check after the Y? what would that purpose serve?




Well I usually like to keep thing as simple as possible I didn’t really think of the possibility of one pomp failing situation also I have seen many setups with just one check valve

Although if your rely running a setup that needs two pomp’s that motor is going to blow up if one pomp fails separate check valves ore not
But better some fuel than no fuel I guess


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

Aaron, 

I like how you situated the intank 044's. Almost looks like they are supposed to be there.


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

All orders shipped guys. Thanks!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

:beer:


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

These also work great with alternate fuels like E85


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

Check out our Christmas giveaway! Check us out on Facebook!


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

No pics other than the fuel cell shots Aaron dropped?


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

screwball said:


> No pics other than the fuel cell shots Aaron dropped?


 I will be getting some pics of the single tank mounting on our shop car in the next few days.. Sorry for the delay!


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)

I snapped a few quick pics of the install on our shop 337. Car is a little dirty since it's a daily driver, but you can see how we mounted the surge tank to a piece of aluminum, and then directly to the passenger frame rail. . 

Also took a pic from above so you can see the discreet plumbing of the surge tank. 


























-Cassidy


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 2010)




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## RAZZOR (May 4, 2002)

what pump would be ok to fill the surge tank from the fuel tank ?
I am building a VR6T in a MK2 and currently use the CIS setup ie:
lift pump in tank and the factory surge tank with external fuel pump.

Looking to get the dual surge tank in this thread with the twin 044 pumps.


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## 04 GLI Luva (May 30, 2007)

Any pics of the the fuel manifold for the twin pumps installed?


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## MacGruber (Aug 20, 2010)

I didn't read the whole post, but I tested a stock Pierburg in-tank pump for a 1993 Cabriolet. Digifant with same reservoir/filter as a CIS car.

At zero back pressure, this pumped one exact 16 oz pint in 5 SECONDS.
That works out to 1 gallon in 40 seconds or 1.5 gal/min or 90 gal/hr or 340 L/hr. 
Any back pressure in the surge tank drops that to a lower supply flow rate.


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## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

Anymore Pics of these mounted up?(mk4 specific).

Any plans to make a specific mounting kit for MK4 chassis?


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## carbide01 (Jul 12, 2003)

I have one of these babies in the E30, and the two pump setup in the TT..... Top notch parts


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## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

carbide01 said:


> I have one of these babies in the E30, and the two pump setup in the TT..... Top notch parts


Snap some pics and post them upic:


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## MrAkalin (Jan 4, 2011)

vdubguy97 said:


> Snap some pics and post them upic:


I'm wanting some pics of specifically the single mounted in a Mark IV. Surprised there's no pictures yet.


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## desertdubs_C (Sep 20, 2009)

MrAkalin said:


> I'm wanting some pics of specifically the single mounted in a Mark IV. Surprised there's no pictures yet.


still surprised there's not more pics..

Pete, I'll be ordering some fueling goodies from you early afternoon tomorrow to finish up my build. Its up and running but hate how I have my pump currently setup. Time for a clean install. :thumbup:


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

04 GLI Luva said:


> Any pics of the the fuel manifold for the twin pumps installed?


If you get the fuel manifold, you need to break out the dremel or take it to a cnc shop, the area around the check valves on the inside is really small... I'd say maybe 1/16", enough that simply trying to blow air past it with your mouth ends up in lots of noise from the restriction. In stock form that piece is in my opinion counter productive with 2 pumps and useless. What I did was take a dremel with a small carbide wheel and all around the inside of each of the two openings I widened it up atleast 1/4" on the inside so fuel from the back pump can get around the front pumps check valves. The AN6 port on it also is pretty small, so I took an AN10 to AN6 fitting tightened it down to the part, put it in a drill press and drilled through the AN10 to AN6 fitting, the bit was smaller than 5/8, but larger than 3/8, but not big enough to eat up the threads on the outside of the AN6 fitting, so that it would open up the rest of the AN6 fitting portion as well as the rest of the fuel manifold. Wire brushed the inside to a smooth finish, re-anodized and now it is perfect. There is still some noise/cavitation/something when both pumps are running, but it is WAY less than before. It moves enough fuel that I can hear it rushing through the Aeromotive fpr. If space is tight, the modified manifold really helps, but if you have room to do two outputs and a Y with check valves I would definately go that direction.

I haven't had a chance to get the car out on the road yet with the new sump, but after fighting with the 034 sump leaking all the time, the 034 fuel rail always leaking, I was very impressed with the IE hardware, great job on the packaging and bagging btw whoever you use is worth it ten times over. The sump really is quieter than the pumps just sitting out in the air. Before I bet it would have made it hard to order from a fast food drive thru, maybe cool to those people who knew what the sound was, but not to others. Now from the inside I would rate it 2-3 times louder than the stock intank when just one of the two 044's are running, from the outside it isn't obtrusive but you can carry on a conversation easily. Turn the second one on though, someone means business.


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## BlueSleeper (Nov 9, 2002)

I have it installed under the spare tire well where the evap emissions stuff used to be right behind the rear diff.


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## vdubguy97 (Sep 13, 2003)

Made a bracket and attached to Fender location


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

vdubguy97 said:


>


Looking good!!


Can you tell me about the fittings you used from the feed and return rubber hoses?

I'm trying to find a way to go from the stock size hose (8mm or 5/16") to -6 oring boss. Looks like you figured it out? Or did you stretch the 5/16 hose over the 3/8 barb?

OR maybe the folks @ Integrated know of a solution????


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## gtimitch (Nov 20, 2006)

I like that.....you have chosen the best setup I have seen yet! I have the pump and sump as well -- as for the fittings going from stock to AN

Here is a little secret for ya and it works going from your stock line to An:
http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/103100/10002/-1
And yes -- they are available in 90 deg. as well...


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Here is where I put this unit in my MK4 Jetta....


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

5/16" hose to -6 orb is a pain. We're going to make some straight hose barb fittings here soon that are exactly that- can't find them anywhere. In the next 3-4 weeks we'll probably have them done. :thumbup:


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> 5/16" hose to -6 orb is a pain. We're going to make some straight hose barb fittings here soon that are exactly that- can't find them anywhere. In the next 3-4 weeks we'll probably have them done. :thumbup:


 Perfect! I will definitely be interested in seeing what you come up with!


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

gdt said:


> Perfect! I will definitely be interested in seeing what you come up with!


 Any updates?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

gdt said:


> Any updates?


 http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineering-6-an-o-ring-boss-to-5-16-hose-barb-fitting.html


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