# Volkswagen releases photos and information on new up!



## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

After teasing us with numerous past concept versions of the up!, Volkswagen has released the first official photos and information prior to its debut at the Frankfurt Auto Show. VW is offering a successor to the Lupo, but in this case it is positioning the up! as an urban "city" car with a host of customized features, new financing options, and great economy in a package that will be more affordable and attainable than ever. Volkswagen has utilized a basic rectangle design with a long wheelbase and short overhangs to maximize interior space. The up! gets a unique face that breaks away from the now-familiar two-bar grill theme we've been seeing across their entire lineup. In fact a glance at the interior makes it clear the up! takes its inspiration from the new Beetle and Bulli concepts. So far VW has announced all-new 3-cylinder gasoline and natural gas engines plus a future all-electric power train (2013) with power up to 75hp and with economy of 56 mpg in the gasoline engines. Curiously, TDI Clean Diesel options have not been announced yet...

*FULL STORY & GALLERY*


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## Volksboy (Aug 8, 2000)

Another Volkswagen that won't be coming to North America.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

Volksboy said:


> Another Volkswagen that won't be coming to North America.


For now... If city cars show better marketability here (since cheap cars require volume to make money) it will remain a European model for now.

-jamie


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

The bright spot here is the absence of the "Pile-o-creases" aesthetic and rather than an open upper grill a solid panel like on old Passats.

It would set VW apart if this design influences the appearance of future western hemisphere products.


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## B5V (Apr 1, 2000)

Volksboy said:


> Another Volkswagen that won't be coming to North America.


Yeah, that will be the "US spec" Up! Yours model...


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## mikebyrneyadigg (Mar 28, 2011)

any word on the bold pattern? my goal has shifted from polishing my vintage bbs to importing a set of those for my mk3.  damn.


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## Bobcdn (Oct 5, 2000)

I hope they decide to bring it to Canada. I think there would be a strong market and like a previous poster said- It would set VW apart in the market place since they would be offering something unique.

Also the fact that they are offering electric version in 2013 makes this a far more appealing car as it would give people who would like to buy a VW a electric option.


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## LilBlkCL (Aug 23, 2001)

Really like it so far. Depending on pricing, it would be perfect for my wife and her minimal commute. Oh, and bringing it to NA of course


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## pimpbot (Jan 9, 2006)

*Heh....*

... neat idea. 

Loose the stupid color matched dash. They are distracting. I rented a PT Cruiser once in white, and amongst other annoying traits was the stupid white dash, glaring in my eyes the whole time. Worst rental car ever... well that and the Dodge Caliber I rented. It's a toss-up.

The Smart Car is doing pretty well here. I have no idea why. It's a good car if you have cramped parking in the city, but otherwise I think it's pretty silly. The Honda Fit gets better gas mileage and has more room, and I think it's cheaper than the Smart Car, yet there are Smart Cars on every corner here in the SF Bay Area.... for that matter, lots of Fits, too. 

I think the Up! would do well here.

I'm still surprised they aren't doing a Polo here. Wasn't there a US spec Polo in the works? What ever happened to that? I think the concern was that it would cannibalize Golf sales.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

pimpbot said:


> ... neat idea.
> 
> Loose the stupid color matched dash. They are distracting. I rented a PT Cruiser once in white, and amongst other annoying traits was the stupid white dash, glaring in my eyes the whole time. Worst rental car ever... well that and the Dodge Caliber I rented. It's a toss-up.


The color matched dash is an old water cooled feature, and while I'll freely admit it will not please everyone, it does save it from being auto-industry black dash #45,943. I like black dashes and they are functional, but this steps out of the convention in a small way a consumer can notice.

Also, it works for Mini.


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## RafaGolfBr (Dec 17, 2001)

VW would bring the Polo, followed by the "Brazilian" Gol (http://www.indiancarsbikes.in/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Volkswagen-Gol.jpg)model before it thinks about bringing the UP. 

Looks great thou for such a small car. also with that MGP I would buy one just to drive to work and back :thumbup:


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## speedbird119 (Apr 30, 2008)

No up!
No polo "world" car
No scirocco

go vw...another great decision...as an ACCD trans alum this just makes me throw up! in my mouth more than a little...retarded marketing! :screwy:

~M


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## pimpbot (Jan 9, 2006)

*Also....*

... no 'Buli' the new VW Bus. I don't know WTF they are thinking by not bringing that thing over. I mean, what, the Routan is such a resounding success? :what::facepalm:


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## Elbows (Feb 27, 2001)

Shame...its one of the most attractive micro-cars I've seen in a while. I'd buy it for $12K with a 100-hp motor (1.4L or so) cloth and steelies - basic aircon, etc. But, I'm sure they couldn't bring it over for that - or sell enough. I've decided my next vehicle will be a truck, so I'd love to have a reasonable economical car along side it for cheap...oh well.

Good lookin' car. Would have been freakin' stellar if they had kept the original RWD platform...


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

Elbows said:


> I'd buy it for $12K with a 100-hp motor (1.4L or so) cloth and steelies - basic aircon, etc. But, I'm sure they couldn't bring it over for that - or sell enough.


I don't see why it is assured that they couldn't sell enough of what you describe. How is an Up! in any way worse than a Smart?

For comparison:

http://www.edmunds.com/smart/fortwo/2011/features-specs.html?sub=hatchback&style=101368853

I suspect without any specific evidence that VW can't get this federalised.


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## pimpbot (Jan 9, 2006)

*True*

It might be a safety issue. we have side impact standards here that are hard to meet that Euros don't have, as well as low speed impact bumper damage standards. Bumpers should be pretty easy to bring up to standards, like every other euro car, with beefier US spec bumpers.


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## Trail Ryder (Jul 18, 2011)

Volksboy said:


> Another Volkswagen that won't be coming to North America.


No reason too. North American city streets (for the most part) are like expressways when compared to European and 3rd World streets and limited parking.

In North America, this car really offers no huge advantage over the Golf ... other than price.


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## eatworksleepdie (May 17, 2002)

It's all in marketing. It could sell here IMO no problem if they marketed it right. Look at the new Fiat 500 for example. 

I was holding out to see what they were going to release regarding the up! and now that I know they are not bringing it to the states, then I guess VW just priced me out of their lineup. My next car purchase will in fact be a Fiat 500.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

eatworksleepdie said:


> ...then I guess VW just priced me out of their lineup. My next car purchase will in fact be a Fiat 500.


A base Golf is a pretty nice car and is only a couple thousand more. By using "only" I don't mean to make the difference in price seem trivial, but if you are priced out of the Golf, that 500 is right on the ragged edge of affordability for you.

FWIW, Edmunds still has that teaser entry for the Polo for the VW line up.


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## BostonB6 (Nov 16, 2005)

Love the new model but Jamie needs to invest some $$ in a new spelling/grammar checker.


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## eatworksleepdie (May 17, 2002)

zukiphile said:


> A base Golf is a pretty nice car and is only a couple thousand more. By using "only" I don't mean to make the difference in price seem trivial, but if you are priced out of the Golf, that 500 is right on the ragged edge of affordability for you.
> 
> FWIW, Edmunds still has that teaser entry for the Polo for the VW line up.


yep, pretty much. i'm at the approx. $300 range per month for payment/insurance etc. A pretty much base model Golf with not a lot of extras would be about $20k (minus friends and family discount) so about $19k give or take. But insurance is more on the golf than the 500, and it gets worse gas mileage. A fully loaded (what I would want on it) 500 would be about 18k (minus friends and family discount) so about $17-16.5K plus cheaper insurance plus better gas mileage... 

I'll still keep my 1992 GTI 1.8t swap for playing with, but all the newer cars are still not within my reach.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

eatworksleepdie said:


> ... but all the newer cars are still not within my reach.


I understand and concur with the sentiment in your post.

Your position isn't unique. I imagine there is a currently untapped market of people for whom a Yaris or Rio is more than adequate, but a bit pricey, but can't bring themselves to pay $12k for a Smart.

Just 20 years ago Suzuki and GM sold a bunch of cars of this size and power.


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## eatworksleepdie (May 17, 2002)

agreed. I def. think there's a bunch of $16k and under crowd. I just wish VW would make up their minds and jump ahead in the US market game instead of trailing.. They need to lead like they do in Europe. I feel they play the US market too safe, and don't take any chances eg., like Fiat did. VAG is one of the leaders in the world, and yet they always sit on their hands and twiddle their thumbs when it comes to the US market. just my .02


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## bigbumpmike (Aug 26, 2003)

I want and i want to see some photoshops. the new beetle ones turned out great


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## k2j (Feb 26, 2011)

No doubt this sucks....we have a Fiat 500 dealer up the street, they are selling like hot-cakes. Better than the smart-car dealer did. 




zukiphile said:


> I don't see why it is assured that they couldn't sell enough of what you describe. How is an Up! in any way worse than a Smart?
> 
> For comparison:
> 
> ...


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## Bug_boy67 (Sep 25, 2002)

I have wanted one of these since 07/08 when the first protype pics first started appearing. I remember saying to myself that if it makes it to the U.S. It will be the first and probably only NEW vw I'll ever buy. Now of course it's going to be released to every corner of the world except the U.S.

I'll never understand why Volkswagen feels that all of north America likes to drive big cars. From the 50's through the late 70's they taught an entire generation to "THINK SMALL", and the beetle sold incredibly well here in the states. That's what actually got me into vw's in the first place.

In the last 3 months, 2 of my good friends bought new tdi golfs, both times I drove them to the dealer in my mk2. Seeing my car parked next to the new golf really made me relize just how big the mk6's are, they looked like suv's compared to my little old golf. It made me sad that vw is following all the other car companies trend of making the next generation of models bigger.

One of my favorite things to do is go on road trips, unfortunately with the cost of gas, I have really had to cut down on that, the thought of a gas engined car getting close to 50 mpgs really got me excited. A few years ago before there were any other real options for a german small car, I had a 3 week affair with a mini Cooper. While I had it, I though, this is what the new beetle should have been. Small, great on gas, and fun, but I just couldn't get into the mini like I have with my vw's so I passed it on hoping someday vw would stop screwing around and bring a small car back.

Maybe it's our government holding them back, maybe it's the oil companies, but I really think vw needs to remember what made them a household name in America, small, efficient, fun little cars.

My 02 gti is in desperate need of a break from dd duties, although it's been a great car, she's got a ton of mileage and it would be better if it could stay home in the garage while a new car takes it's place. I really hope vw changes there mind, because the thought of a ford fiesta or Honda fit in the driveway is starting to creep in and I really don't like that idea


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## lilbacon3 (Jul 21, 2005)

It looks like the up! will fit right in over here in Japan.
VW even rakes in more cheese here because of their better-than-yer-average market position.
I look forward to seeing them next year. That is, of course, if they're smart enough to sell it here.


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## g60manny (Feb 6, 2006)

F**k you Volkswagen, we don’t need you stupid car, we have Toyota Yaris, we have Nissan versa, we have Honda fit, scion coming out with their IQ, smarts car, and don’t forget Fiat. We have an enemy in Volkswagen headquarters that don’t like Americans


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## MeineFolks'wagen (May 8, 2002)

g60manny said:


> F**k you Volkswagen, we don’t need you stupid car, we have Toyota Yaris, we have Nissan versa, we have Honda fit, scion coming out with their IQ, smarts car, and don’t forget Fiat. We have an enemy in Volkswagen headquarters that don’t like Americans


I agree, I don't see how VW can consistently say "well, we don't think small cars are going to sell well in the U.S.". Using that logic, you may as well bring the Amarok over here because all us dumb yanks want are big gas guzzling trucks and SUV's. 

I don't make a ton of money and I would definitely consider something like this because of its size, mileage, and cost. A few thousand dollars is still a few thousand dollars - for those that have money it may not be that big of a deal, but for us povs it can make a difference. We're not all in the market for a $40-$50K truck/SUV that gets 18mpg or $25-$30K sedans that used to be like $19K a few years ago.......


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

MeineFolks'wagen said:


> A few thousand dollars is still a few thousand dollars - for those that have money it may not be that big of a deal, but for us povs it can make a difference.


I think cost makes a difference for anyone. Lots of middle aged people VW would like to have consider a $30,000 Passat don't have Passat money when they get out of school. That kind of person can buy a Smart or a Mini, but those brands are a bit aof a dead end.

You might think there would be real value to VW 20 years from now in someone buying a Passat because he was so pleased with his first new car, an Up!, his second, car a Golf, and perhaps his third car, a Jetta. It would make sense for VW not to engage in that strategy if it really can't make the Up! or something else cheaper than a Golf in the US market. If the Up! would be $17,000, they should forget it.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

g60manny said:


> F**k you Volkswagen, we don’t need you stupid car, we have Toyota Yaris, we have Nissan versa, we have Honda fit, scion coming out with their IQ, smarts car, and don’t forget Fiat. We have an enemy in Volkswagen headquarters that don’t like Americans


Pretty much, VWOA wants to bring another SUV to the market :facepalm:.


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## g60manny (Feb 6, 2006)

wantacad said:


> Pretty much, VWOA wants to bring another SUV to the market :facepalm:.


whatever happened service to the customer?, bring what they need, and bring what they want, THATS WHY THEY USE VWVORTEX.COM TO GET IDEAS AND help from the consumers how to sell their stupid product. What ever happen to "People’s car"eace: I love VW dont get me wrong but this new $hit that "America wont be getting this" is pissing me off


i guess just get the old Vw's and F**k the new cars eace:


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## IFlyGTI (Feb 26, 2001)

> If American car buying trends change away from large vehicles, there may be a business case for the up!, but for now we will sit this one out.


Go figure. Working at a dealership that sells VW, and used to have the smart franchise as well, I can see the Up! as a next step up the food chain, between a smart fortwo & a Golf. Something on par with the new Fiat. Small, but not too small. Hopefully, VW changes their mind about this, since it does fill a niche that is present in our lineup.

Oh, and whoever keeps tipping the trend away from VW's like this, STOP IT!!


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## swags (Mar 6, 2003)

Trail Ryder said:


> No reason too. North American city streets (for the most part) are like expressways when compared to European and 3rd World streets and limited parking.
> 
> In North America, this car really offers no huge advantage over the Golf ... other than price.


how about those MPG numbers?


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## swags (Mar 6, 2003)

g60manny said:


> F**k you Volkswagen, we don’t need you stupid car, we have Toyota Yaris, we have Nissan versa, we have Honda fit, scion coming out with their IQ, smarts car, and don’t forget Fiat. We have an enemy in Volkswagen headquarters that don’t like Americans


it's really looking that way!!!


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## swags (Mar 6, 2003)

speedbird119 said:


> No up!
> No polo "world" car
> No scirocco
> 
> ...


So so true!!! bunch of TARDS!!!!


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## swags (Mar 6, 2003)

*bring it! VWOA go with your gut!*

remember how many original Beetles were sold! Get UP and bring it to the US and be happy!!! it's that simple you propeller heads!!! 
small high milage = Happy American! 
like the Beetle, Rabbit and UP... and if you won't deliver the UP state side, give US the Polo! NOW!!!!
:banghead:


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## Bug_boy67 (Sep 25, 2002)

Check out this site, the 3rd page has some cool stuff. Really like th sunroof, to bad it's not a full length
www.volkswagen-up.com


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## theJUIC3MAN (Jul 11, 2010)

will someone pshop this on bags and rs' already


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## CJ318 (May 22, 2002)

theJUIC3MAN said:


> will someone pshop this on bags and rs' already


this


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## VW_Hippie (May 14, 2010)

:banghead::screwy: If this or polo was in north america today I'd buy it now cash!. Right now I'm looking for a small cheap german car good on fuel that is below 15k mark-No way I'm buying that POS of a Jetta. Get your heads out of the sand!!! How can company as innovative as VW be lacking so much vision for the north american market? 

I can't recall a company as big vw that leaves left their loyal customers in the larch with no option for product - From a fit and finish stand point we are forced to go to pretentious Audi. Don't get me wrong Audi is a nice machine but too much $$ for what you are really getting. My beef is: There are parts that have both VW and Audi numbers and two different prices. Integrity at it's best. 
:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## g60manny (Feb 6, 2006)

*"There are no plans to offer the up! in the U.S. at this point. "* 

Here you go stupid America, you get noting 









thats how i feel about it


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## wky (Feb 18, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> For now... If city cars show better marketability here (since cheap cars require volume to make money) it will remain a European model for now.
> 
> -jamie


 Jamie, don't make excuses for VWoA. These tards are the same ones that think no one wants R32's or any R model in the states. How the 'f' is VW supposed to take over the sales lead when they keep denying models here. Do they actually think they can do it with just the Jetta, Golf and Passat? They'll always be niche mft in the states with this thinking.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

wky said:


> Jamie, don't make excuses for VWoA. These tards are the same ones that think no one wants R32's or any R model in the states. How the 'f' is VW supposed to take over the sales lead when they keep denying models here. Do they actually think they can do it with just the Jetta, Golf and Passat? They'll always be niche mft in the states with this thinking.


 I thought about taking you to task for your angry reaction to a calmly stated and plausible rationale. Then I read Jamie's statement again. 

Since the Up! is anticipated to sell well enough to be sold throughout europe and make money, it will have met its required volume of sales before the first one is sold here. The additional US sales volume would just improve the case for bringing the car to the US market. 

That doesn't mean that VW don't have a sound reason to keep the Up! out of this market or that isn't the reason someone at VW gave, just that low anticipated volume itself is unlikely to be the actual reason.


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## wky (Feb 18, 1999)

zukiphile said:


> I thought about taking you to task for your angry reaction to a calmly stated and plausible rationale. Then I read Jamie's statement again.
> 
> Since the Up! is anticipated to sell well enough to be sold throughout europe and make money, it will have met its required volume of sales before the first one is sold here. The additional US sales volume would just improve the case for bringing the car to the US market.
> 
> That doesn't mean that VW don't have a sound reason to keep the Up! out of this market or that isn't the reason someone at VW gave, just that low anticipated volume itself is unlikely to be the actual reason.


 As I said to Jaime, quit making excuses for VW. With your excuses above, why then is VW even in the US market at all?


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

Reasons I could see for excluding the Up! from the US market include: 

-Preserving Golf/Jetta more profitable sales 
-Federalisation obstacles 
-Having done the math and knowing they can't sell it at a competitive price in this market 
-A less than stellar performance on the EPA test cycle.


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## juststarted (Apr 14, 2003)

With the current release of the Fiat 500, this would be a great car to compete with it... Right now you have the fiat, and the smart, why not bring the UP to the scene. There are more and more smarts on the road, and I have already seen close to a dozen Fiats... 

Yeah sure the Jetta is profitable here, stamped parts, drum rears and assembled right in TN and or Mexico, unless you get the GLI. No thanks. 

This by far should be released to the American market...


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## ArcticFox (Nov 4, 2005)

I think the Up! would bomb in the USA. 

Look at the Smart cars sold by MB. They can't move them in the US.


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## Bug_boy67 (Sep 25, 2002)

I don't know about where your at, but I counted 6 smart cars on the way home today, those tiny little things are everywhere in Baltimore. Also had 2 fiat 500 go by, might have to go check them out in person


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## gard_96vr6 (Aug 12, 2001)

What a shame, that VW will take a long time to decide if NA is a viable market for this car. I would consider this above other premium sub-compacts. I also think it has potencial for customization.









Time will tell I guess. 

:beer:


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

gard_96vr6 said:


> I also think it has potencial for customization.


 Maybe that terrifies them.


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## nj2.5 (Feb 2, 2011)

I want one


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

With a 105 hp 1.2 TSI or a 122 hp 1.4 TSI engine would make it a cool city racer. 
If Volkswagen put a 4 cilinder in the up!, this will be my next car.


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## 85GTI (Dec 19, 2000)

All it takes to get this (and other VWs ) over here is for oil prices to go up and stay up. Of course when that happens the economy takes a hit so . . . that makes it harder to sell cars. VW has to commit to bringing these small and high mileage cars here and then be willing to sit it out until gas goes up. It will. Not sure why they don't realize that. Too much short term corporate thinking I guess


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## corinthiansands (Jun 28, 2009)

*New VW "up!"*

The Rabbit Mk.1 has identical wheelbase as Up! Finally..............a much needed new Rabbit. I can't wait to buy one. I can just see myself on a track day at Laguna Seca; 75 HP clawing at the pavement, after-market exhaust growling, steelies flexing at the apexes, jealous onlookers wishing they had one. "Happy days are here again, the skies above are clear again, let's sing a song of cheer again, HAPPY DAYS ARE HERE AGAIN!"


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## MrGTI (Feb 14, 2000)

> There are no plans to offer the up! in the U.S. at this point. If American car buying trends change away from large vehicles, there may be a business case for the up!.


 Canadians like small cars. We've got lots of smart's, Fiat's, and MINI's, not to mention Golf's, Versa's, Fit's, and Yaris's.

Someone at VW of America needs to re-check their numbers. This car would sell really well - certainly better numbers than the flop Routan (the dealerships up here can't even give those things away).


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## MeineFolks'wagen (May 8, 2002)

MrGTI said:


> Canadians like small cars. We've got lots of smart's, Fiat's, and MINI's, not to mention Golf's, Versa's, Fit's, and Yaris's.
> 
> Someone at VW of America needs to re-check their numbers. This car would sell really well - certainly better numbers than the flop Routan (the dealerships up here can't even give those things away).


 Hell, I just moved back to Texas and in between all the idiots (yes I said it) still buying full sized trucks and SUVs are so many Fits, Yaris', Minis, Smart, Fiats, etc. that I can't keep count. If people in the bigger is better state are buying these small cars, that should be a clue. I know it's only one market, but it's an important when you see good 'ol boy 'Tex trading in his pickemup truck for a small econo car (I sold cars at Kia for a few months and that was by far the best thing to see - good ol boy coming in the door trading in his Ford, Chevy, or Hummer for a little Korean car! :laugh: 

VW - you want to make money, you have to sell your product. The more markets you have your product in, the more money you are going to make. You can make it work, just put in the effort.


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## Boost Addicted (Jun 11, 2007)

Im sorry Volkswagen, I made my choice and unfortunately, you have missed the market share boat. Little cars are selling. Ford Fiesta is doing extremely well and my little Fiat is getting scooped up like hotcakes.... especially in TEXAS of all places. There are no european entries under 20k that offers 30+ mpg... except for Fiat. You could have capitalized in that market. oh well tsk tsk. I LOVE MY LITTLE FIAT!


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## MrGTI (Feb 14, 2000)

MeineFolks'wagen said:


> VW - you want to make money, you have to sell your product. The more markets you have your product in, the more money you are going to make. You can make it work, just put in the effort.


 I totally agree. I might even go as far as to say,.... Volkswagen - if you want to be the #1 car maker in the world, then you have to sell your product. The more markets you have your product in, the more you are going to sell.


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## Phunkshon (Nov 16, 2005)

Driving footage


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## g60manny (Feb 6, 2006)

Phunkshon said:


> Driving footage





Thank you for rubbing it in:banghead:


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## Blue Golfer (Feb 4, 2003)

*AUGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!* I _want_ one! I can't have one!


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## Phunkshon (Nov 16, 2005)

/\ Sorry guys...


(First test by Auto Bild)


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## deathhare. (Apr 1, 2008)

Volksboy said:


> Another Volkswagen that won't be coming to North America.


I love watching this clueless company miss yet another boat. 
I wonder if VW will ever pull their heads out of their timid asses. :screwy:


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

g60manny said:


> F**k you Volkswagen, we don’t need you stupid car, we have Toyota Yaris, we have Nissan versa, we have Honda fit, scion coming out with their IQ, smarts car, and don’t forget Fiat. We have an enemy in Volkswagen headquarters that don’t like Americans


Wooooo dude!... calm down. The enemy is us.... with our economy is ruins because of two wars, outsourced jobs overseas by American Corporations, massive bailouts to our failing Banks and Auto makers etc, our dollar is in the toilet, and the powerful DM is making it almost impossible for the Germans to be in business over here and still make a profit. Rest assured, when things improve, the UP will come, as an electric or something.... Besides, the first generation of any car by any manufacturer blows in quality control... so we get the last of the MkI UP's, or better still the mid MkII's!


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## g60manny (Feb 6, 2006)

Its official you could order you scion IQ they will be release in October 1 next month

http://www.scion.com/#/iQ-on-sale-dates


Here are some pix
http://www.scion.com/#/iQ-images-videos/exterior

another F#$ken opportunity that Volkswagen miss :banghead:


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## VWRedux (Jun 3, 2009)

This :thumbup: ^ is by far a much better looking metro-car package than lets say this below :thumbdown:.... (from The Mercedes Benz website) 









_"The new smart forvision will be shown at the 2011 International Motor Show in Frankfurt. With features like carbon-fiber reinforced epoxy resin, solar cells and infrared-reflective heat shield, it really sounds like the future is here."_ 

^ Who cares that it has carbon-fiber solar cells etc... What an ugly POS! :laugh::facepalm:


Then whatever happened to this great looking VW roadster? What a hit this would have been? What happened guys? Is it still coming? :thumbup::beer:












So instead Mercedes is about to launch this ugly looking copy.... :thumbdown:









_"Times are really changing, as demonstrated by the report of Mercedes' new roadster, which will be offered in front-wheel drive. Traditionalists will no doubt be dismayed, as the quintessential roadster is a diminutive rear-wheel drive two seater, as popularized by iconic roadsters from MG, Lotus, and Triumph."
_


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## ManTech (Oct 13, 2010)

Yes, what ever did happen to this car? :sly:


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

So, here's the problems I can see with the up! (god, what a terrible name - they should've just expanded it to Lupo and been done with it) in the US.

#1, city cars like this tend to not get any better fuel economy than subcompacts with the same powerplant. (For that matter, the EPA cycle isn't even kind to subcompacts.) A lot of that is due to aerodynamics - city cars tend to actually be worse, here. That leads into...
#2, Americans tend to drive more highway miles. City cars tend to perform badly on the highway, both due to their aerodynamics, and short wheelbase.
#3, there's a tendency to buy one car that can do all the jobs needed of a car. The up! won't do it for most Americans, and it's not cheap enough to be a guaranteed second car buy.
#4, all of those factors mean that demand for this class of car will be low. And, there's already the ForTwo and Fiat 500 in this class (admittedly, the ForTwo is even lower, but still, it's competing for the same buyers.)

IMO, the up! would get passed over for larger cars if it were priced any higher than $8k for the base model. And I'm sure VW can't make money at that price.

Now, there IS a business case for a Polo, IMO - especially if it's the Indian Vento/Russian Polo Sedan, which is almost the same size as a Mk4 Jetta, gets better fuel economy, is lighter, better looking, and better equipped. However, the 1.6L gas engine that they're using would need to be federalized, as I don't think the 2.sl0 would be competitive in fuel economy.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

bhtooefr said:


> #4, all of those factors mean that demand for this class of car will be low. And, there's already the ForTwo and Fiat 500 in this class (admittedly, the ForTwo is even lower, but still, it's competing for the same buyers.)
> 
> IMO, the up! would get passed over for larger cars if it were priced any higher than *$8k* for the base model. And I'm sure VW can't make money at that price.


$8k? A Smart is what, $12k? Fiats are $15k. Yaris, $14k?

This car is roughly the size of a MKI Golf. How would it not be better than a Smart every way? If it had the 100hp engine how would it be worse than a Fiat or Yaris?

Yes, many people will not consider any of those cars, but if a manufacturer is already making them, the business case for selling them here doesn't seem very hard.

I too will be very interested in a Polo hatch here.


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

First off, the Yaris ain't a city car. The city car you're looking for is the Aygo, or for US market stuff, the iQ.

The Fiat 500 has a fashion statement value that I think this car can't get away with. The Fiat 500 was actually designed as a fashion statement, and is from an Italian (automatically == exotic) marque, this was designed as cheap transportation, and is from Volkswagen, who made 1.8T Jettas for sorostitues, that kept puking up coilpacks and eventually ate their 01Ms. Therefore, the Fiat 500 can afford some price padding where VW can't.

The other thing is, the car will have quite a lot of costs to make it meet US standards, and it was likely not designed with US standards in mind - meaning the economies of scale get wiped out, because a US-specific version would have to be cobbled together, and it would be inferior (see the Pontiac GTO as a perfect example of this.)


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

bhtooefr said:


> The other thing is, the car will have quite a lot of costs to make it meet US standards, and it was likely not designed with US standards in mind - meaning the economies of scale get wiped out, because a US-specific version would have to be cobbled together, and it would be inferior (see the Pontiac GTO as a perfect example of this.)


I don't doubt that VW have designed this car without the US market in mind, but that doesn't mean that a VW in that class would be passed over if it were priced at more than $8k. The IQ isn't an $8k car. Neither is the Smart.

Fiat is an exotic for which people will pay a premium, but VW is making basic transportation with quality and design issues? Seems a stretch to anyone who remembers the FIAT acronym.


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

Yeah, but the last time the Fiat brand was sold in the US, GM was still selling diesels.


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## VW_Hippie (May 14, 2010)

If the smart car is road worthy, who knows the UP may be already US road worthy. Who knows. Whatever VW does I just hope they bring some thing smaller than golf - polo or Up I'd be happy.


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

Another vw that we wont get.. Why do you guys waste you time reporting on them ?


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

Well, it's VWvortex, not AmericanVWvortex...

Anyway, the Up has appeared in ETKA...

The wheels are 4x100, suspension is almost all Mk4 Golf-based, engine mounting appears to be the same or very similar to the Mk4 Golf although there's a lot less room in the engine bay.

I really, REALLY want to see what people start doing to these things - it's basically conceptually similar to a Mk1 Rabbit with a fair amount less cargo room, but modern safety, styling, drivetrains, electronics, etc., etc.

And, given that it supposedly holds 4 adults in comfort... it might actually do OK at $10-12k against the Fiat 500. The trick would be that they'd need to install a US-friendly powertrain, which means either certifying a 1.4 or 1.6L and making it run on 87 AKI octane, or dropping the 2.sl0 in.


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

bhtooefr said:


> Well, it's VWvortex, not AmericanVWvortex...
> 
> Anyway, the Up has appeared in ETKA...
> 
> ...


 Vw tells the american people what they want.. They built an ugly passat and jetta and people are eating it up. They built a pointless 50k dollar suv and still the american people are eating it up. If they entered the low end market with the Go every 16 year old girl would have one.. Just the way it goes. Personally the only car in the market now that makes any sense is the gti or the 2.5 golf.


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

The Jetta and Passat actually do make sense - those are cars that are cost-reduced in ways that most Americans won't notice, and they're sized closer to their competition such that Americans are more likely to buy them.

They're not for us, but that's OK. They have the Golf and CC for us.


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

bhtooefr said:


> The Jetta and Passat actually do make sense - those are cars that are cost-reduced in ways that most Americans won't notice, and they're sized closer to their competition such that Americans are more likely to buy them.
> 
> They're not for us, but that's OK. They have the Golf and CC for us.


I still think vw's micro car line would sell great in the USA


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

If the Up is sufficiently cost-reduced - and it might actually be - then it might work here.

The base model - which doesn't have AC (so it'd be a loss leader to get people in the door) or power windows, but it does have a radio - is 7995 GBP. Subtract 20% VAT, and you get $10306.

The Move Up! takes care of that, and is 8970 GBP, or $11563 without VAT.

(And, those prices are still higher than an actual base price.)

Now, here's the problem... that engine is too small to drive an automatic transmission, and the US market won't buy it if an auto isn't available.

There are, however, a couple choices to solve this problem. There's a 1.4 16v, a 1.6 8v, and a 1.6 16v to choose from, all in the EA111 family, that would all be about right.

The 1.4 16v, in its current "normal" model trim, won't do it, though - it's only making 85 hp @ 5000 RPM and 97 ft-lbs @ 3800 RPM. And, the recommended automatic is a DSG - too expensive. Really, it'd be quite adequate, but most people wouldn't see it that way.

So, the 1.6 8v... now this gets interesting. This one's available in Brazil with a 5-speed slushbox behind it, and it makes 101 hp @ 5250 and 111 ft-lbs @ 2500 - a quite adequate engine for American drivers. Very similar compression ratio (looks like maybe 10.6:1) to the (10.3:1) 2.sl0, very similar bore:stroke ratio (0.88:1 versus 0.89:1 for the 2.sl0), and it's cheap. This should be tunable to run on our 87 octane crap pretty well. In a Mexican Gol, on the Mexican cycle, it gets about 34 mpUSg city (and apparently the MEX-IMP cycle is harder than the CAFE city cycle) and about 49.5 mpUSg highway, so I'd expect similar or maybe a little better in an Up.

The 1.6 16v is another choice. It's used in the Russian and Indian Polo Sedans, which means it's able to handle crap fuel. 105 hp @ 5250, 113 ft-lbs @ 3800. And, there is a 6-speed slushbox available. (Granted, it's the same engine family, so you could bolt it to the same slushbox as the 8v, but the 5-speed would be cheaper.) Unless it's significantly more efficient, and based on its claimed combined fuel economy (on the Indian cycle) of about 37.2 mpUSg for a manual (granted, in a bigger, heavier car), I'm thinking it's not, the added expense is kinda pointless over the Brazilian 8v.

So, really, I think VW should churn out Brazilian 1.6 8vs, and stick them in something small for the US market - whether it be an Up!, a Gol, or a Polo.

I think you could get a manual transmission 1.6 8v Take Up! on the US market for $10k, now.

$11.5-12.5k for a nicely equipped Move Up!, $14-15k for a High Up!, depending on transmission.


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

The Gol is hideous.. the up or the new polo or Lupo is what we need. My main problem with the polo is they only come in 4 doors in mexico and s.a. id assume we would get the same treatment.


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

Actually, I'm not seeing the Polo at all on VW Mexico's site, and the one sold in Brazil is actually the previous generation.

And the up! *IS* the new Lupo. Note, L*up*o.


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## NgOrr (Dec 3, 2010)

really like it opcorn:


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## VW_Hippie (May 14, 2010)

Too bad VW still has their head in the sand. Now my wife is looking at the fiat 500. . It was hard to look at other manufactures. We have been a vw family for decades but we've just come to the point if VW is not going to offer more european models like this we'll go else where.


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

Alright, found a bunch more technical information:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/C71B1199DC1FAFDDCA257933000BADF2

Engine is a complete redesign of the EA111 family, called EA211 (so, I'm expecting 4-cylinders to sprout from this), same bore spacing. Aluminum block, which is rare for VW's small engines. No balance shafts needed due to lightened internals.

Gearbox is all-new, MQ100, and reverse is in the wrong place, but we already knew that. What I didn't know was, an automated SINGLE-clutch manual is planned, the SQ100. 5 kg heavier than the MQ100. My guess is, it's a mechatronics unit slapped on the top of the MQ100 - last time VW needed a cheap, efficient 5-speed automated gearbox, they did that to the 085. Bad news is, the automated 085 was SLOW to shift. Like Smart ForTwo slow.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

bhtooefr said:


> Alright, found a bunch more technical information:
> 
> http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/C71B1199DC1FAFDDCA257933000BADF2


Just wanted to thank you for posting the technical updates. Even if we never get this, these bits still satisfy a dileittantish interest.


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## bhtooefr (Dec 23, 2005)

A side note about labor costs, that was replying to something in Polo in the US thread #2943285093284502, and I thought I was in this thread. So, I'm putting it in this thread.



bhtooefr said:


> And they're actually building it in Slovakia.
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_30/b3944003.htm
> 
> ...


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