# talk to me about my newly acquired CIS car.....



## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

i have recently bought my first cis car, 99% of my experiences before now has been with cars that run digi or newer. so, just like any other vw you buy used, this one has some issues. the car is an 82 quantum 1.7lt. it idles high most of the time, 1500+, but every so often, the idle dips and cant idle high enough to maintain the idle. this never happens when its cold, only when its warmed up. sometimes after the car is warmed up, and i've shut it down, i need to give it gas to start it. then hold the gas for a bit to keep idle. i think the previous owner was messing with the idle cause the idle adjustment was all the way down. i disconnected the cold start injector, and bumped the idle, and its helped a bit. it still idles high most of the time (1500-2000), but when it decides to dip, i stays at 800 or so. what should i be looking at? all the vac lines look good, i'm gonna go through them anyway. i put a brand new 02 sensor in it, no help. i feel like its a temp issue. would a bad coolant temp sensor do this? also, the red light in the temp gauge blinks at me randomly. and the temp gauge can go up as high as 3/4's, but mostly stays at 1/2-2/3's. whats weird is the light never flash's when the temp gets up to 3/4, it usually on flashes when the car is cold. is this normal for these engines? i have a thermostat i'm gonna throw in anyway. 

also, i cant deal with the lack of power this car has. what are my options here? 16v swap, high compression 8v, aba, maybe turbo the 1.7...... whats the easiest route that will add enough power to help to merge in traffic. i dont need tire smoking power, just enough so i can keep up and not fall behind the group when we travel to shows.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

As a transplant seems to be in your future, I'll skip doing any Internet troubleshooting, at least for now. Of course any 8v should fit right in and be no problem for getting it up and running. A 16v looks/seems to also be a shoe-in except for the exhaust and maybe the intake. For that I would suggest looking toward the European Audi 6A, I think the exhaust manifold, downpipe and intake manifold from that should work. The real easy power increase I would think is the 5 cylinder from that model. You can get it in 107hp, 115hp and I believe 120hp versions and the car came with it so all things should fit in no problem.


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

i'm not really worried about the fabrication for making a 16v fit. i have a couple friends and family that are pretty crafty with a welder that are more then willing to help. my concerns are more in the area of wiring. does the cis management work on a 16v? is there a diy i can skim? this new search sucks......


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Mounting should be a snap as it seems the Quantum mounts will also bolt right up to any 1.8L block. So I doubt any real fabrication is required. The European Audi parts are also for a longitudinal mounted engine so the exhaust exits down and towards the rear (sideways) and the intake is also designed for that type of installation. 

Wiring is really not all that bad or hard. If you want to stay with CIS basic (or Lambda) then look at information about the European KR code engine. I can help there as I had a few and still have some manuals. If you want to convert to a full KE-Jetronic setup from say the PL code engine, it is not so involved.


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

i would assume for me to keep CIS (i have cis-m, correct?) i would need to find a vacuum advanced distributor? if not, i would need to wire in an ecu and all that jazz?


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

I am imagining you have cis lambda. Ensure you have no vacuum leaks. There should be an aux air regulator mounted under the intake manifold. This valve allows more metered air when cold, and should slowly close as it heats up. Make sure you're getting 12v to the plug, or else it'll have a hard time heating up enough. Take it off and clean it out too. 

Then there should be an idle boost valve that gets triggered when the idle dips below a certain point. These should be the only idle regulating devices in the vacuum system. 

The fuel injector o-rings tend to go, and it'd be a good idea to get new ones. Make sure you get the viton ones. 

After you've sourced out all the vacuum leaks, you can unplug the o2 sensor and hook it up to a voltmeter and a ground of your choice to set the mixture, aiming for ~0.7v. Ensure your ign. timing is in spec. If the idle screw is all the way in, either it was tampered with (for instance, PO/mech "accounting" for a vacuum leak, and subsequently richening the mixture), or the o-ring for the idle screw has gone bad, allowing the screw to wander. This might not apply for your car though; I seem to recall the earlier cars using a different type idle screw. 

You could go the i5 route, but that will most likely end up being a bit more work. The easiest solution would be to grab a mk3 aba block from the junkyard, and a mk2 gli/gti/digifant big valve head. You should be able to adapt it to use your current cis-lambda system. 

I'm not sure if the manifolds will be compatible, but if not, I'd imagine a fox intake manifold would do you well. As for the exhaust manifold, visit the fox forums. There's currently a group buy going on for custom fox dualpipes, which might be compatible with the quantum. Can't remember if that uses the audi 4k or 80 manifold. Otherwise, if your family/friends are able to build you a downpipe, either 4k or 80 exhaust manifold will still be your best bet. 

Throw on a nice cam, and you should be in the 120hp+ zone. 

May as well figure out the problems with the car first before getting into swaps.


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

that was my though to, figure out the issue before i dive into a swap. i'm gonna need to take a look at that idle boost valve and aux air regulator. i pulled the intake boot today and checked out all the vacuum lines, there good. there was a port on the top of the intake boot that had a fitting broke off. so there was a boost leak, so i plugged it up. i changed the coolant and changed the thermostat, and it still runs hot. it still idles high, and now it hesitates under load and has a hard time revving. i quit for the day, i'll go over everything i did again tomorrow and hopefully find what i messed up. my temp stays at a constant 2/3, a little above the light in the gauge. is this normal operating temp? if its running too hot, could that be giving me my hesitation? cause it didnt start giving me that issue till it got up to temp......


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

at this point, let's assume that the mixture was improperly set to compensate for vacuum leaks and other problems. you'll need to unplug the o2 sensor and set the mixture against that. that should get you in the ballpark for proper running. 

still idling high.. where is your idle screw set to now? 


with regards to the temperature, there's a lot of variations in gauges. it could be normal. something could be wrong. at what point does your fan kick on? are there two speeds or just one? you may need to change the fanswitch in the radiator. hot running won't cause hesitation. do keep an eye out to make sure it doesn't get too high and cause engine damage. 

you topped off on oil? how was the old coolant? it might not be a bad idea to use one of those prestone super flushes when the time comes for you to do an engine swap. 

if you're running excessively lean, that could explain your running problem, as well as the car running hotter than normal.


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

explain to me more about how to set the mixture.... i have a voltmeter, i just need a little more direction so i'm comfortable doing it. 
i'm gonna pull the plugs and see if i'm running lean. that makes sense.


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

k, so i somehow found some info using this new search. 

to set the mixture, i need to hook my voltmeter up to the output wire on the o2. when the car is running, adjust the mixture screw till the meter reads around .7. should i be doing this at idle, or should i rev it a bit to get a better mix?


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

i did a **** load of tinkering yesterday and got pretty much know where. i'm really starting to love this management.  first off, its still idling at 2000. while it was idling, i pulled the plug i put on the hole and the intake boot, and the idle came right down to 1000. so having a vacuum leak lowered the idle down to where it should be. i figure my issue should must be in that aux air regulator or the idle boost valve, its definitely a vacuum issue. 

i found the aar, and tested power to it, i'm getting 12v. pulled it and put direct 12v to it and couldnt get it to do open. how does the unit work, i pulled it apart and couldnt figure out how the heating unit made the valve open. 
i ran out of time and didnt check out the idle boost valve. i needed to use the car to go to a gtg, so i blocked off the tubes going to the aar, and tuned the mixture like that. i was gonna leave the vacuum leak in the boot, but i couldnt get a good mix that way. so i plugged it and adjusted the mix till i got it to hover around .7 on my voltmeter, while idling at 2000.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "i pulled the plug i put on the hole and the intake boot" 

The heating unit serves to close the AAR, not open it. The metals expand at a different rate when heated, causing the "valve" to be closed/opened depending on temperature. They can get gunked up over time, and have screwy behavior. 

Idle boost valve should only be tripped when idle falls below the a threshold. I suppose the valves could fail open; personally, I've seen one fail closed. 

Have you checked what your ignition timing is at?


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

there is an open hole on the top of the intake boot. i had it plugged cause i didnt want it to be a vacuum leak. but, when i pulled the plug on it, the idle dropped down to 1000. 
now, i've been searching for a picture of a quantum engine bay to see what is supposed to be connected to that hole. its a factory opening, but nothing was there. also, i havent been able to find the idle boost valve. does the unit look like the mk2 and mk3 idle control valves. i'm starting to think that the PO removed it and it was supposed to be connected to this open hole on the top of the intake. let me take a pic of my engine bay and maybe you can see what is missing or out of place....


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

notice the bolt i used to block the hole in the intake boot, right next to the TB. sorry for the crappy quality, my iphone doesnt take fancy pics....


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

ah i believe that's what goes to the idle boost valve indeed.

have you checked to see if the throttle body is fully closing?


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

OK, I don't have this model anywhere around here to check against so I could be wrong, but by looking at the pictures I see something that to me is wrong and can cause the problem you have. The throttle stop screw looks to be screwed all the way in opening the primary throttle very wide. It even looks as though a longer screw has been swapped in, but again I don't see these cars here. If this is true then it would cause the problem and reaction you describe with the air boot.

If the engine is set-up, prior owned I assume, to run at idle with the plug removed (open hole) by cranking on the throttle stop screw and then you plug the hole, the engine will climb in engine speed. With the hole open and the throttle stop adjusted to counter the by-passing air, by closing the hole the air sensor plate lifts and the engine speed raises. Remove the rubber boot at the throttle body and look at the throttle plates. They should be both closed. The stop screw is only there to set the rest position so it does not get stuch when closing, i.e. held just off touching the bore by a few thousands of an inch.


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## mr sarcastic (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm gonna pull the tb tonight and see what's up.


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## Chapel (Jun 23, 1999)

Audi MC1 or MC2 swap  

165bhp out of the box... and theres a toy whistle in said box


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