# anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt???



## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

this is for my 1990 corrado, i've been planning on doing the 16vg60 then moving to 16vt. i really want to do the turbo but for reason's the 16g60 could happen first........what i really what to know is if anyone has some HP #'s for both, and if it's possible to get 280-300hp out of the 16vg60.....thanks in advance


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## GOLF GTTi (Sep 13, 2002)

Jeroen Dik was getting 370ps out of his G60-16v engine year in, year out.
Many of his road engines were producing over 300ps!


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (GOLF GTTi)*

really? i haven't heard of anything that high yet. usually i hear people getting 220-245hp out of it. do you know how much it take to get it to the upper level of HP? b/c i really want to have my car at 300+


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## BUNNYLOVE (Jul 28, 2000)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

If you want 300hp go with a turbo or atleast a supercharger that doesn't suck.


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## BahnStormer202 (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (BUNNYLOVE)*

16v g60 was discussed a lot in G60 forum, where you might get more info about it or better yet, check out the 16v g60 mailing list. (or message board.. i forgot which one it is)
My friend is putting down almost 250whp, but that's with stand alone, so yes it's possible to see nice number with G60 charger. 









JD's car was a topic of many debates, and personally I haven't seen a dyno graph of any of his motors. I'm not saying that's not possible, but you'll need higher then usual CR, ported head, maybe cams, ultra small pulley and crazy tune.... which means major $.
I would just go with a turbo. 
Good luck.


_Modified by BahnStormer202 at 5:25 PM 4-20-2005_


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (BahnStormer202)*

thanks for the info. i think a 16vg60 would be fun but i want more power than what i think that set up is capable of and i really like turbos. plus i've been hearing alot about how much it costs to do the 16vg60 so that is also another downside.


_Modified by jmarsh20 at 5:53 PM 4-20-2005_


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## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (jmarsh20)*

A basic 16VG60 with stock cams and a stacked gasket 9a with 9a 16V head will put down in the neighborhood of 200whp with a 68mm pulley.


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (jwatts)*

right now i have the BBM stage4 with the stage 4 porting of the G60 and some other things. so if i did the 16vg60 it'd have the stage 4 charger. if i go with that set up then i'm also planning on doing a P&P and the valvetrain along with the BBM 1.9L pistons and either standalone or an sns chip.....if i do that i'm hoping to make at least 250whp.does anyone have a similar set w/ some hp #'s?.........i just don't know if the $ it takes to do this will get me where i want to be


_Modified by jmarsh20 at 11:18 PM 4-20-2005_


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (jmarsh20)*

you can just run a 60 trim T3 and put down 250whp without a problem, that's with a powerband that will put that G charger to shame








hth
P


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## Cabby-Blitz (Sep 2, 2002)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (killa)*

Yea check out what Killa did with a 16vT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (Check his sig if you dont know)


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (Cabby-Blitz)*

yeah i see that killa knows what he's talking about, through what he's done and through reading through tons of posts....i was wondering if you could help me with some questions i had about going 16vt? thanks in advance


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (jmarsh20)*

16vg60 will be easier since you already have a rado g60.


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (vdubspeed)*

i have two g60 engines, i have a complete 16v head, two 16v intake mani's one w/ throttle body on the drivers side and one on the pass. side, and i have a 16v exhaust mani all sitting around waiting to be created into something...


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## H2Zero (Apr 25, 2003)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (jmarsh20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmarsh20* »_i have two g60 engines, i have a complete 16v head, two 16v intake mani's one w/ throttle body on the drivers side and one on the pass. side, and i have a 16v exhaust mani all sitting around waiting to be created into something...

Thats a lot of parts....


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (H2Zero)*

yeah one of the g60 engines needs work on one of the cylinders. i've been enhancing and collecting future parts for the car for awhile now. i'm just to the point where i need to decide what i'm going to do with it and continue to get the parts i need till it becomes and machine


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## BUNNYLOVE (Jul 28, 2000)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (jmarsh20)*

I would start with a whole 16v motor if I were you regardless of what route you go. You can just double stack the headgaskets with a 16v block and your good to go. Putting custom 16v type pistons in a G60 block is a waste IMO. I would sell the G60 engines off to finance the 16v.


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (BUNNYLOVE)*

i really am not to great on the subject but i remember reading somewhere that the g60 bottom ends is/was one of the best VW has made......that very well could be wrong info i'm not sure. and the pistons that bbm has are for the g60 bottom end and the 16v head...i just don't have alot of back ground building cars. i read alot of the post and articles but have never done it myself yet. so any and all advice is welcome


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## BUNNYLOVE (Jul 28, 2000)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (jmarsh20)*

It is good for sure in stock form, but it has its place. When using a 16V head with a G60 block, the larger chamber volume drops the compression to the point where it would be a real turd on the street. It would be less than 7:1 iirc.


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## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (BUNNYLOVE)*

pistons aside, the PG bottom end is as tough as they came from VW. The crank was forged and the rods are all beef. They're just short rods and add extra side loads to the pistons and walls... and a bit on the heavy side.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

Get your hands on a 2L 16v motor, stack a couple of gaskets, add a turbo, big injectors and an SNS chip since you already have the G60 management on your raddo. the results... a 300whp corrado that can run 12's in the 1/4








I'll be more than glad to help you guys out, feel free to ask away.
Paul


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (killa)*

so it'd be better to have a 2.0l 16v bottom end then the g60 bottom end? and which turbo would u recommend for this set up? i've been looking around and researching but hearing from someone that's done this before would help with the decision...


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: anyone have HP numbers for 16vg60 and 16vt??? (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_you can just run a 60 trim T3 and put down 250whp without a problem, that's with a powerband that will put that G charger to shame








hth
P

No doubt,G60's are grenades in disguise anyhow.like Killa said,i made 318 whp with a t/3 super 60


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

depends, maybe you can trade something that you have for a 16v bottom end, in that case its just easier, since you dont need to swap things over
but im a fan of the G60 block, beefy is correct. Im just wondering could someone not deck the head down to get the CR up with a 16v head? there is a ton of room , i dunnohow far the 16v valves extend tho. I think that there would be plenty of room







.
The only thing that would be different between the 2 IMO, is not the threshold of when things break (since most stock vw blocks give up around 350pft stock even with ARP rod bolts) but rather that id be more secure knowning that i have beefy internals meant for a boosted application, with a fat ringland etc. up to that threshold, so running 300pft is safer IMO.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmarsh20* »_so it'd be better to have a 2.0l 16v bottom end then the g60 bottom end? and which turbo would u recommend for this set up? i've been looking around and researching but hearing from someone that's done this before would help with the decision...

a 2L 16v will have 203cc's more than the PG (G60 motor), not to mention that if tuned it'll be a bottom end that will handle a good 400whp. The turbo selection would depend on what powerband you're looking for, you can make good power with a T3 60 as BadHabit said or crazy power with a T3/T4. Jesse Padilla put down [email protected] with a T3/T4 he bought from me. Whatever works though, Jwatts is also running the same turbo at way less boost and put down 250whp @ 12psi with the digi1 system.
thanks
Paul


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

i got the 1.8L 16v head because it would fit with the g60 1.8 bottom end....i've heard that the 1.8 flows better then the 2.0 due to the larger intake ports. but are larger intake ports or smaller intake ports better for turbo? wouldn't smaller intake ports create more air velocity and be better?
some of the turbos i've been thinking about are a t3/t4 prolly the .57 trim, a gt28rs....i'm not a 100% sure about all the turbo specs and what not and what would be best suited for what i want
i want a car that i can get 300+ whp out with at a moderate boost level and be able to take it higher when needed and still be able to drive the car on a daily basis. so i'm not exactly sure what turbo would be best for that


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

gt30r sounds good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*

if i plan to use what i have and use the 1.8L 16v on the g60 bottom with stacked head gaskets, a t3/t4 turbo, injectors, sns chip, valve train done and p&p what do u think i should be able to make and is it a reliable setup? sorry if there've been alot of questions i just need to get as much info as i can. thanks again


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmarsh20* »_if i plan to use what i have and use the 1.8L 16v on the g60 bottom with stacked head gaskets, a t3/t4 turbo, injectors, sns chip, valve train done and p&p what do u think i should be able to make and is it a reliable setup? sorry if there've been alot of questions i just need to get as much info as i can. thanks again


you need to modify that to

_Quote, originally posted by *jmarsh20* »_if i plan to use what i have and use the 1.8L 16v on the g60 bottom with a decked block (trimmed down to raise CR), a t3/t4 turbo 57trim...










reliably with some ARP rod bolts over 300whp on a average/good tune, in the range of 350whp with good tuning anything over that you need excellent tuning and most likely standalone. (to stay reliable)


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

both 1.8 and 2L heads will bolt up to the G60 bottom with no problem. 
For a good turbo go T3/T4 .63/3 with at least a 50 trim compressor or a GT30R.
look at my sig... hehe


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (killa)*

ok so when u put the g60 bottom and the 16v head the compression goes way down. so to fix this i should have the head decked and that'll get the compression where it should be.....now i've heard about ppl stacking head gaskets. now is this done to lower the compression on the full 16v engine b/c pf it's higher c/r. so this isn't what u do w/ the g60 bottom end right? or am i wrong?i've just heard a few different things and wanna see if i've got it right
oh and i found a t3/t3 .63 and .57 trim but when i can get it is the question

_Modified by jmarsh20 at 8:45 PM 4-25-2005_


_Modified by jmarsh20 at 8:47 PM 4-25-2005_


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

you got it right


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

what size injectors would be best, 42#? and where would be the best place to pick some up? and a quick question what do u guys think is better the quaife or peloquin lsd?


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## TURBOPHIL (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmarsh20* »_what size injectors would be best, 42#? and where would be the best place to pick some up? and a quick question what do u guys think is better the quaife or peloquin lsd?

Check with scott f.williams on the vortex, also check the junkyards, you can get the #42 from a ford lightning truck, also IIRC the ford thunderchicken uses 310cc which is also a great start.Make sure you get high impedance injectors if you are using the stock digi 1 ecu.
Any one of those lsd are good, just find the cheapest and go with it. I had the quaife in my old ITB rabbit and loved it, personally I don't have any experience with the peloquin but I think it is just as good as the quaife and there always is a group buy on them.hth


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

The G60 bottom is rock solid, but the 2L 16v (9A) is also rock solid. The 2L has more displacement causing to make more hp in the end and also spooling your turbo earlier. Trust me when i say that if make a mistake in tuning you'll blow either motor.
Also, there's tons of different T3/T4 configurations, there's cases of people in here selling the wrong turbos for certain setups just because they dont know what they're doing and then in the end people end up with a car that has a powerband that doesnt suit them. If i were you i'd lean towards the T3 60, T3/T4 50 or 57 with either a .48 hotside housing or a .63 but with a stage 3 turbine wheel or even a GT30R with a .63 hotside.
hope this helps
Paul


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (killa)*

the info helps alot, thanks again. and i've heard alot of different things about the differences between the peloquin and the quaife but they seem to both be pretty good. so i think i'm go with the peloquin b/c it's the best deal. i'd love to go with a 2.0L but since i already have the g60 bottom end i think that may be the route i go, i guess it'd depend on how cheap i could get a 9a. i already have all the 1.8L stuff so unless i find an amazing deal on and engine i think the 1.8 is the best i can right now


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

Sounds like you're doing about the same thing that I am. I have a low-mileage G60 that I've owned since new. I bought a complete 1.8L 16V of questionable condition off the vortex (falsely advertised as "fully rebuilt"







) and decided to use my PG block with the pistons, rods (polished/balanced), head (ported/polished/valve job), and other assorted bits from the 16V. The PG block has the same dimensions as the 16V one (reference http://not2fast.wryday.com/vw/...shtml ), so I'm using stacked ABA gaskets to lower compression. Forged pistons are in the offing once I get the tuning worked out. Mating a T3/T4E from Killa to it.
Jason


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

i thought the pg block and the 16v head took the c/r down to low and u actually had to raise it by decking the block? which way is correct?


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## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

Yes, IF you use the PG rods (136mm) and pistons. If instead you use the PL rods (144mm) and pistons, you're essentially the same as a baseline 1.8L 16V with 10:1 CR. Both rods have the same journal size (48mm) and hence can be used on the same crank. However, the rods have different wrist pin diameters, so you can't use PG rods with PL pistons or vice versa. Hope all that makes sense.
One advantage of the longer rods from the PL/9A is the lower side loading on the pistons, which should decrease parasitic losses and wear and tear on your rod bearings. Combining them with low-compression forged pistons is a good solution if you don't want to stack HG. They're not as beefy as PG rods, but I've heard that they'll take 350 whp with ARP bolts. They are the same rods as the 1.8t, after all.
Jason


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (jmaddocks)*

thanks that helps alot. i'd just been hearing both things and wasn't quite sure as to what was up. it sounds like using the the PL rods and pistons is a better way to go then to have the block decked. i'll check and see if i can get my hands on some thanks for the info.


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## jmarsh20 (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

does anyone know the CID and or the CFM of the pg bottom w/ the 1.8 head on it?


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (jmarsh20)*

General info for those who are reading this thread and are interested in 16vG60's
If you are gonna consider a 16vG60, don't do it for peak hp, turbo will beat it everyday.
Great motor to drive, elastic powerband, like a VR.
Start with a 9A long block, don't arse with PG + 9A head.


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## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_Great motor to drive, elastic powerband, like a VR.


Correction... better than a VR







. Very broad torque curve that's almost impossible to beat with a naturally aspirated VR. Especially if the 16VG60 has a set of cams and a 68mm pulley.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (jwatts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwatts* »_
Correction... better than a VR







. Very broad torque curve that's almost impossible to beat with a naturally aspirated VR. Especially if the 16VG60 has a set of cams and a 68mm pulley.

If only I had cams..


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