# 16V Megasquirt V2 3.57 Setup



## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

Hello VWVortex!

I'm attempting to finish a project I started a couple of years ago, here's the basic rundown. 1982 VW Caddy (full restore) with a 16V PL bored out motor swap from an 87' rocco, was running CIS-E, decided to go for a MS setup. 

Started off with a V1 2.2 but ended up upgrading to a V2 3.57 for better control and reliability. 

Physical goodies installed: 
- BBM Fuel Rail
- BBM Adjustable FPR set to 3 BAR
- Green top 32 LB Low Impedance Injectors
- Steel braded fuel lines 6an
- Digi 2 Injector inserts
- Innovative LC2 WB O2 Setup with gauge
- Cold Start blockoff
- Passat Auto TB
- Short RAM Air
- V2 3.57 MS SMD complete from DIY
- Relay Board from DIY 

Decided to go with fuel only setup at first, will do a crank trigger wheel setup (polo or 034 motorsports) with a coil pack. 

All goodies are plugged in and wired up to the relay board. I have injectors 1&2 wired to INJ1 and Injectors 3&4 into INJ2 on the relay board. Also opted to trigger the RPM off the Coil negative terminal to TACH as the DIY setup is supposed to be wired for it by default.

Plugged the ms2 3.57 computer into a megastim and did a whole lot of reading up. This newer version of MS is much nicer and has the flyback circuit (for low impedance injectors) takes a lot of the guess work out.

Programmed the following settings in TunerStudio: Req fuel (11ms), speed density, 1 squirt per cycle, simultaneous, 4 stroke, 4 cylinder, 4 injectors, even fire on 2200 cc, with 336 CC injectors. Also set the PWM for 30%, PWM threshold of 1ms, prime pulse from [email protected] to 2ms @202F and Cranking Pulse % from 248% @ -40F to 69% @ 202F. Also calibrated the MS for a Innovative LC2 and stock VW 16v Coolant temp sensor(MAT is GM).

Current issues, RPM feedback from Coil Neg isnt working, RPM gauge isnt budging, Is there a better way to trigger the RPM feedback? I was reading something about using the Hall Sensor as feedback.

Also my Coolant temp is coming up as 60F when its 77F outside, not sure if this is an issue (I calibrated it as follows: Bias Resistor Value 2490, 32F = 6K ohm, 140F = 450 Ohm and 248F = 110 Ohm)


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

What are the internal jumpers j1 and jp1 set to?


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

need_a_VR6 said:


> What are the internal jumpers j1 and jp1 set to?


J1 Jumper is set to 1-2 and JP1 is set to 2-3, theres also a JP1 on the MS2 chip, its totally open.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

That should work right off coil- 

If you want to try the dizzy you have to change the jumpers (use vr) and add a pullup resistor.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

need_a_VR6 said:


> That should work right off coil-
> 
> If you want to try the dizzy you have to change the jumpers (use vr) and add a pullup resistor.


Looks like the coil is bad, checked my Bently manual and is says the resistance between 4 (coil center tower) and 15 (+) terminal should be 6.5K to 8.5K ohms, Im getting 3K ohms.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

Thinking about going distributerless off the bat now that my coil is done and a OEM replacement is 120$. Any suggestions on what would work best with a 16v NA motor, v2 3.57 MS setup? ive been reading about ford EDIS setup with a 36-1 tooth crank trigger and VR
sensor, any good prefabbed ones out there other than 034 Motorsports (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6911142-034-Trigger-Wheel-Issues-Heads-Up)


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Why would you spend $120 on an OEM replacement coil when you can go to any boneyard and pickup a mkIII/IV coil for next to nothing. It has a hotter spark that the canister coil and is easily modded to remove the ICM module to allow MS direct control. I used one on my car and noticed an immediate improvement in idle and lower rpm performance, so much so, it required some additional tuning with Tuner Studio. A crank fired system will be more accurate, but also will require more time and effort to setup and get running.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

I got lucky and found a good used good coil in a box of parts. Still plan on moving to a MS controlled system sooner than later.

Plugged it up and now I have a an RPM reading. Still no starting though, it sounded like it wanted to start but no dice. 

Am I supposed to set any ignition settings in Tuner Studio other than Fuel only? Do my pulse width numbers look ok? Plugs look wet and all individual plugs looks to be firing. I also have been data logging but not exactly sure what to look for. 

Also MAT is 78F and CLT is 70F, not sure if thats an issue.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

What is ambient temp? At least they are close to each other. You can set it for fuel only in the basic setup (I think). If spark is being controlled by something other than MS, there is no need to worry about it, other than to get the rpm input. Was it running on current spark setup prior to going to the MS?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Set to basic and dont worry about the spark settings otherwise. 

Verify ignition timing is close then just try adding fuel and see if you can get it to start.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

It ran on the CIS-E just very poorly. Ive has a major breakthrough though - I started it by opening the throttle a bit, I know that you're not supposed to do this but it started and was able to run while I had my foot on the gas a bit. As soon as I release the gas it shuts off. At first I was thinking it wasnt getting enough fuel (i kept adding more with no real success) then came to the conclusion that the mani isnt getting enough air when cranking or to idle? Im using a Passat Auto TB both throttle body both ports are closed when I crank, and there doesnt seem to be an aux or idle air port. Any thoughts on that?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

You will have to add a bypass valve. I think I also modified my passat TB to add a idle bypass ckt, and then I used the aux air valve only for warmup air and that was at 0% duty cycle when motor hit 165*F.

You could adjust your throttle stop for now to keep it cracked open, don't forget tp recalibrate TPS if you do this.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

ps2375 said:


> You will have to add a bypass valve. I think I also modified my passat TB to add a idle bypass ckt, and then I used the aux air valve only for warmup air and that was at 0% duty cycle when motor hit 165*F.
> 
> You could adjust your throttle stop for now to keep it cracked open, don't forget tp recalibrate TPS if you do this.


I got it started and idling with opening the TB a bit and recalibrating the TPS in TS as mentioned, it now starts on the first crank without fail! Thanks for the tip! Where would I go about getting a bypass idle valve with the circuit?

Other than that the motor is running quite a bit rich (as in 10:1) so I have a bit of tuning to do. 

What should the optimal idling RPM be for this puppy? i've been reading that anywhere between 900-1000


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

slavo said:


> Where would I go about getting a bypass idle valve with the circuit?
> 
> What should the optimal idling RPM be for this puppy? i've been reading that anywhere between 900-1000


Get a TB with an idle bypass ckt to get an idle , the ISV is good for warmup air bypass. Or upgrade to MS2/3 to get a decent frequency control for closed loop idle control, MS1 just doesn't do it well, from my experience.

Depending upon cams, that idle speed would be good.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

ps2375 said:


> Get a TB with an idle bypass ckt to get an idle , the ISV is good for warmup air bypass. Or upgrade to MS2/3 to get a decent frequency control for closed loop idle control, MS1 just doesn't do it well, from my experience.
> 
> Depending upon cams, that idle speed would be good.


I'm on a MS 2 v 3.57 now, I'll have to read up on frequency control for closed loop idle control


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

MS1 didn't do closed loop well, but open loop was fine. If you are on MS2 make sure you get your open loop duty cycle idling the car well first then try closed loop.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

What AFR should the car be idling around? 14.7:1 or a bit richer? car is idling but rich at 11:1. 

When I lower the VE table to bring it closer to 14:1 the RPM spikes to over 2500 or 3000.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

slavo said:


> What AFR should the car be idling around? 14.7:1 or a bit richer? car is idling but rich at 11:1.
> 
> When I lower the VE table to bring it closer to 14:1 the RPM spikes to over 2500 or 3000.



That sounds proper. That means you can either reduce timing or reduce air(close throttle stops some) to bring idle down. Shoot for what ever AFR and other settings that give you the idle you are looking for.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

I cant seem to find a happy middle, either its idling super low (500RPM and stalls out) or high (1400-1800 RPM and surges) saying that I'm looking to get something to get my idle under control and somewhere in the range of 900-1000 (seems to be the sweet spot) at various temperatures. Any suggestions on what can do that for me? Ive been reading a bit about bosch 2 wire setups or stepper motor IAC


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I use 2 wire obd1 aba and vr6. Both work well.


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

I have a Bosch 3 wire that Ive read a bunch of good things about that I wired up. I wired it up with a 50Watt, 40Ohm aluminum clad resistor on the ground leed (to slow down the valve), positive to a positive switched source and the third wire to MS FIDLE connector on my MS Relay. Ive set the Idle control to PWM Valve (2 or 3 wire), Open Loop with a valve frequency of 153Hz. Now im able to start it first crank with the throttle stop completely closed.

However Im having an issue with the rpm climbing on idle once the engine warms up, im thinking the frequency or PWM is too high, i tried bringing the PWM lower but it having little to no effect. Anyone have experience with this type of idle valve? How do my settings look? not sure where else to look


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## slavo (Jun 8, 2011)

Figured it out, forgot to jumper the Relay Board relay for Idle valve PWM. Did that and I got a smooth idle with some playing around with the idle PWM settings. Decided to go closed loop now that my idle has smoothed out and so far so good even under electrical load.

Whats left is getting the high RPM VE map dialed in. I also decided to go from Speed Density to Alpha-N and this has also helped me smooth things out so far. 

Any advice with higher RPM tuning?


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## scootervdub (Jun 17, 2015)

Hey everyone, just wanted to chime in here. I am also in the process of building a MS 16v. however, I'm from a car that hasn't been run in a LONG TIME to MS, so I have to change pretty much everything. I just got the engine back in the car.


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