# ZF Gearbox Service DORTMUND!



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi all,

well I've finally bitten the bullet and booked my V10 (SWB) in for a gearbox "service" at ZF in Dortmund Germany. 
I have read many good things about Herr Sagert and his team, and, having spoken to him at great length today I am feeling very confident that my gearbox will return to the silky smooth unit it was when it left Dresden.
Herr Sagert informs me that his team are well versed with the Phaeton, and can turn the car around in about 4 hours.
The cost is €450 including transmission fluid (full change) and all parts used for regular service! The oil alone in the UK is approaching €300, plus parts plus labour!!! Plus these guys really know their stuff. 
For the benefit of other owners Herr Sagert (remember this guy is the real article ZF employed senior tech) strongly recommends a transmission oil change every 120,000km or sooner!
I will post a follow up to my visit in due course

Stu


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Let me know how it goes - I was thinking of doing this after I read this account of the procedure:

http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/527361

(I suspect you saw it as well! )

Harry


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Prince Ludwig said:


> Let me know how it goes - I was thinking of doing this after I read this account of the procedure:
> 
> http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/527361
> 
> ...


Harry,

indeed I did see the above! The best part though was ringing ZF and speaking (in English) to a guy that really knows his stuff! Hate to think how much the call cost!
I will keep the forum informed of the outcome!

Stu


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Stu:

Great stuff. I think our ZF transmissions are quite robust and would last a VERY long time with that periodic service. I wish we had factory ZF service available in the US. I'd travel abit just to get it done. Thank goodness, I have a new transmission and won't have to worry about fluid exchange and maintenance for many years(knock on wood). However, I feel my transmission would not have needed replacement if that service had been done at about 50k miles. :banghead:

Jim X


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Good grief, what an article! I'd love to change the fluid in mine, but I barely trust the dealers to change the engine oil, nevermind the gearbox.


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

That's a really useful post Stu, I am just around the 120,000 km and I can feel that the transmission could be a bit smoother on occasions - I can probably make a bit of a detour to Dortmund later this year so I could well be your first referral customer.

All best,
Steven


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Expoman said:


> That's a really useful post Stu, I am just around the 120,000 km and I can feel that the transmission could be a bit smoother on occasions - I can probably make a bit of a detour to Dortmund later this year so I could well be your first referral customer.
> 
> All best,
> Steven


Hi Steven,

I'm going September 29th (their next available date)!!!!

Stu


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Makes me want to go there too...

The thing is that I have 140000 km and plan to sell my car in 2013 to buy another one, by which time the car should be approximately 200 000km...

So the big question is: should I keep going on like this until 2013 and save the return trip (900km) and money hoping that nothing bad will happen before 200 000km, or should I bite the bullet and go now...

My transmission runs fine even though once in a while, at very low speeds, I have a small clunk going from 3rd to 2nd, or 2nd to 1st...

P.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Zaphh said:


> Makes me want to go there too...
> 
> 
> My transmission runs fine even though once in a while, at very low speeds, I have a small clunk going from 3rd to 2nd, or 2nd to 1st...
> ...


Pierre,

I have the same problem, Herr Sagert confirmed the issue and the cure! I have approx 170,000km on the clock.

Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> I'd love to change the fluid in mine...


The process for changing the fluid in the 5 speed transmission used in the W12 Phaeton is explained (complete with illustrations) at this post: Changing Transmission Fluid, Checking Transmission Fluid Level (illustrated how-to guide). The process for changing the fluid in the 6 speed transmission used in the V8 Phaetons is similar.

If your VW dealer is not familiar with changing the transmission fluid in the Phaeton - a reasonable assumption, considering that there are relatively few Phaetons in North America and no requirement (other than on the W12) for changing the fluid, it might be helpful if you printed out this thread and provided it to the service writer when you bring the car in for service.

The specification (the mileage interval) for changing the fluid in the W12 powered Phaeton is provided (in PDF format) on post #28 of the same thread.

Michael


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

PanEuropean said:


> If your VW dealer is not familiar with changing the transmission fluid in the Phaeton - a reasonable assumption, considering that there are relatively few Phaetons in North America and no requirement (other than on the W12) for changing the fluid, it might be helpful if you printed out this thread and provided it to the service writer when you bring the car in for service.
> 
> Michael


Michael:

It appears from the photos that the service they perform at the ZF service center is more than a fluid/filter change. The photos suggest that they remove and "rebuild" the mechatronic unit. This must be done in a very clean environment by someone experienced in the task. That means the electronics and hydraulic control system is essentially renewed. VW techs will install a new or factory rebuilt mechatronic unit but must feel that their techs are not sufficiently trained to dig into the ZF 5 and 6 speed transmission internals. Thus, if there is a "serious" problem VW generally opts to replace the whole unit. 

If it is merely a fluid and filter change, someone please correct me.

Jim X


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Michael,

Thank you very much for referencing the prior thread and for specifically pointing out the service interval. I would have never guessed that the factory recommendation is to change the transmission fluid every 20,000 miles. This is invaluable information for all of us that are looking to keep our cars for many years.

I know for a fact that my grey one has not had this done over the roughly 20,000 miles I have put on it since I got it. The prior owner had had the 80,000 mile service performed, so I do not have details of what was done. I had it in for 100,000 mile service and they did not do this then. (Both the prior owner and I have been religious about dealer-recommended service.)

I will be discussing this with my service advisor.

Victor


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Jxander said:


> It appears from the photos that the service they perform at the ZF service center is more than a fluid/filter change...


Hi Jim:

Yes, absolutely, you are correct.

The only problem is that it is a real pain for us to transport our North American Phaetons to Dortmund - even with my 'top tier' airline status and zillions of frequent flyer points, no airline will allow me to check the thing as baggage, and the LWB Phaetons we have in North America are too long to fit into the little Twin Otter aircraft that I periodically ferry around the world. 

So, for those of us who are in North America, about the only service option we have is to change the fluid. This is obligatory (on a periodic basis) for the W12 transmission, and not obligatory for the V8.

Way, way back in about 2006, I had my doubts about the 'good for the lifetime of the car' claim made for the W12 fluid, and paid to have it changed myself (hence the original post). It cost me about $350 in parts to get this done - there was no labour charge because I did all the work myself at my dealership (they always ask me if I want them to do the work, or if I would prefer to do it myself - if I elect to do it myself, they give me a work bay, toolbox, and a shop coat).

A few years later - surprise, surprise - out comes the technical bulletin telling W12 owners to change the stuff every 20,000 miles (30,000 km). My first change was done at about 30,000 km, so, I asked the staff at the dealership to change it again at 60,000 km - since they now knew how to do it (they watched me the first time around), the dealership staff did the work the second time around. I haven't yet reached 90,000 km - at my present rate of driving the car about 1,500 km a year (and flying 150,000 miles a year), that won't happen for a long time.

Michael


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## Appaz (Oct 30, 2009)

I have 165k km on mine V10.
Started to notice litlle waving on tahometer (or is this called a rev meter?), specially on slow accelerations with cold engine, about 20k km ago.
It got worse little by little.
I changed gearbox fluid two days ago and I am a happy man now.
Revs are stable, gear changes up and down got very smooth.

A usual VW dealer did not have any problems to do this job.
They billed me 300USD.


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Hi Steven,
> 
> I'm going September 29th (their next available date)!!!!
> 
> Stu


Have a good time Stu, very much look forward to hearing your account of the experience and your first Autobahn drive post-procedure!

All best,
Steven


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Jxander said:


> Michael:
> 
> It appears from the photos that the service they perform at the ZF service center is more than a fluid/filter change. The photos suggest that they remove and "rebuild" the mechatronic unit. This must be done in a very clean environment by someone experienced in the task. That means the electronics and hydraulic control system is essentially renewed. VW techs will install a new or factory rebuilt mechatronic unit but must feel that their techs are not sufficiently trained to dig into the ZF 5 and 6 speed transmission internals. Thus, if there is a "serious" problem VW generally opts to replace the whole unit.
> 
> ...


Hi Jim,

you are quite correct! The entire Mechatronic unit is removed, cleaned and reassembled with many replacement parts. Herr Sagert also pointed out that some components within the Mechatronic unit have been the subject of upgrades over the years and these are replaced as a matter of course.
An added bonus is they throw in an oil change for the diffs too!!!!
Can't wait!

Stu


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Stu,
Will you be able to document the Phaeton procedure like the BMW article? I too wish they had this kind of service too. Unfortunately I have a different issue and may need to have my transmission replaced. 
Damon


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

dlouie said:


> Stu,
> Will you be able to document the Phaeton procedure like the BMW article? I too wish they had this kind of service too. Unfortunately I have a different issue and may need to have my transmission replaced.
> Damon



Damon,

assuming Herr Sagert is okay I will endeavour to get as many pics as possible! I will also try and get as much info on the gearbox as I can. Remember though that I have the V10 (ZF 6HP32A) whereas (I think) you in the States have the ZF 5HP19A. Feel free to correct the last statement. Some differences will no doubt come to light!
If I am being honest my real reason for a trek across Europe is cost! I cannot buy the correct ZF fluid (Lifeguard 6) in the UK for price of a "complete service and oil change" by ZF themselves in Germany!

Stu


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## W12mike (Apr 13, 2005)

From what I have gathered, all Phaeton autos have the ZF 6HPXXX transmission, except the W12s, where the 5HPxxx is fitted.

The "5" and "6" in the ZF designation stands for the number of gear ratios.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

W12mike said:


> From what I have gathered, all Phaeton autos have the ZF 6HPXXX transmission, except the W12s, where the 5HPxxx is fitted.
> 
> The "5" and "6" in the ZF designation stands for the number of gear ratios.



Hi,

V6's have 6HP26A V10's have 6HP32A difference being torque handling (apparently)

Stu


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Here in NA, the V8's all have the ZF 6HP26A. Even though you have a different transmission, I'm just fascinated by photo documentaries. My transmission developed a leak at the center differential. It's not a leak from the tail shaft seal that appears to be common. Instead, it leaks from the breather port on the center differential housing. I think I know the cause but need to verify it. I will start a new thread on the topic when I get it sorted out because I think the. issue undocumented on this forum. Anyone ever smell burning oil from the exhaust pipes that's not cause d by a tail shaft seal? Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack your thread.

Damon.


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Damon,
> 
> assuming Herr Sagert is okay I will endeavour to get as many pics as possible! I will also try and get as much info on the gearbox as I can. Remember though that I have the V10 (ZF 6HP32A) whereas (I think) you in the States have the ZF 5HP19A. Feel free to correct the last statement. Some differences will no doubt come to light!
> If I am being honest my real reason for a trek across Europe is cost! I cannot buy the correct ZF fluid (Lifeguard 6) in the UK for price of a "complete service and oil change" by ZF themselves in Germany!
> ...


Spoken (written!) like a true Yorkie! Stu, you had me fooled for a while......

All best,
Steven
(Sheffield lad, sent south as a missionary at the age of 9)


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Expoman said:


> Spoken (written!) like a true Yorkie! Stu, you had me fooled for a while......
> 
> All best,
> Steven
> (Sheffield lad, sent south as a missionary at the age of 9)


Steven,

I was in Sheff last week, boy has it changed in the last 5 or so years! I wish I could say it was all for the good, but, alas as with so many other "urban improvements" it falls very short!I was in Toulouse the day the place exploded and the aftermath resembled Sheffield today!
Another case of the UK failing to invest in its core industries, now all the names are Finnish, Russian and Indian. Sad:screwy:

Stu


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hello All:

Below are photos of transmission data plates from North American Phaetons. Both cars are MY 2004. Hope this helps with transmission model identification.

Michael

*NAR V8 Transmission









NAR W12 Transmission*


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Steven,
> 
> I was in Sheff last week, boy has it changed in the last 5 or so years! I wish I could say it was all for the good, but, alas as with so many other "urban improvements" it falls very short!I was in Toulouse the day the place exploded and the aftermath resembled Sheffield today!
> Another case of the UK failing to invest in its core industries, now all the names are Finnish, Russian and Indian. Sad:screwy:
> ...


Stu,

Most of Sheffield has been demolished since I lived there - I could almost take it personally!

The last district I lived in has now become a "drug hole" and my last living relative there (that I knew of) was killed in a car accident last year when a car she was driving was hit by one of two cars having a race on a local by-pass. As you might imagine, I have no plans to return any time soon!


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi all,

the first step of the gearbox service is under way - 750 miles to Dortmund:what:. Got an email from Herr Sagert confirming that they are expecting me at 8.00am sharp:facepalm! (Thursday 29th Sept). 
So camera and sandwiches in hand its off to the Fatherland!
All being well they will put her back together nicely so that I can report!

Stu


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

> 750 miles to Dortmund:what:


In a Phaeton? Pah!


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## JockMacMad (May 18, 2011)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> 750 miles to Dortmund


I bet the oil just gets to 90 degrees as you arrive


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## Piers1989 (Sep 3, 2011)

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the service as I'll try and convince my dad to get our W12 gearbox serviced if the service is good and its a good price 

Would be nice to get some autobahn action too ^^


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi all,

well I've got as far as Brugges after a great day with the very nice folks at ZF Dortmund! First impressions are.... WOW! Over time you forget just how good something used to be, well this has served as a BIG reminder!!
More when I get back as I hate typing on a phone!

Stu


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Hi Stu,

Glad to hear it went well, looking forward to reading the in-depth report upon your return.

Cheers,
Steven


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi all,

just a quick (prior to full) update for those sending PM's.

Journey, easy no fuss and ZF facility very easy to find (opposite Dortmund Airport).
Service, wonderful, how it should be! Copious amounts of free (QUALITY) coffee, very friendly people that did everything they could to accommodate "foreign" clients! Prompt and uber efficient!
Results, everything and more than I expected! Gear changes are back to being imperceptible. No jolt when stopping at junctions, just nice smoooooth changes. Quieter too.
Would I do it again? Who wouldn't, it really is a no-brainer.

I will post the pics and more in depth info over the weekend.

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi, 

here's a summary of the trip, the service and the outcome. 

Left sunny Harrogate early on Wednesday. I made my way down to Ashford in Kent to collect a couple of Turbochargers that I had "acquired" (more later)! after an hour or so pottering around the Kent countryside I made my way to Ramsgate, ready for the ferry to Ostend. With hindsight I would have chosen Hull to Zeebrugge, but would not have been able to collect the turbo's. 
The ferry was uneventful, beautiful calm evening cruise across the English Channel, managed an hour or so of something akin to sleep! 
I arrived in Ostend around 23.30 local time, so didn't see much of the place. Straight onto the Motorway network heading for Eindhoven. This is the first time in twenty years that I have driven in Belgium and, I am sad to report, the condition of their roads is far worse even that the UK's! The constant pitter patter clunk thud of the patchwork surface certainly kept me fully awake! 
As I was in no hurry I set the cruise control at 65mph and sat back in an effort not to induce stress! (This paid handsome dividends with the trip computer showing an average of 42.6 mpg on arrival in Dortmund). Belgium passed without incident, despite some quite thick fog in places. 
Immediately you arrive in the Netherlands the road quality improves drastically. Almost as smooth as a French _peage_! Soon I was passing familiar places having visited Holland on many occasions. 
As night gave way to the first signs of dawn I was parking outside of the ZF service facility in Dortmund (well, near Dortmund, it sort of overlooks the Dortmund Airport (with lots of Boeing's painted in a very fetching shade of pink)! 
I was expected at 08.30, but as I could see plenty of comings and goings by 07.30 I thought what the hell, I needed a coffee! I was greeted and made to feel very welcome by the director of the facility, and with coffee in hand we proceeded to check on the Phaeton. As I had arrived at 04.00 the car had a while to cool down, albeit not sufficiently, so Herr Jaeger (ZF tech) got the car into the facility, up on a ramp, oil pan off and fans directed at the offending gearbox at warp speed! He pointed out that by the time my contact (Herr Sagert arrived (08.30) the 'box should be cool enough to get to work on. 
At exactly 08.30 Herr Sagert arrived, ensuring that I had enough (VERY GOOD) coffee, he talked me through the process, asked about specific problems, and discussed the replacement gearbox oil cooler that had become a necessity after the initial appointment had been made! 
Indeed this cooler proved very stubborn to remove. Bascally it had become that hot that it had warped and melted a weld! Take note all V10 drivers, drop the rear cover under the gearbox and thoroughly clean this radiator before it fails! 
By 09.45 the mechatronic unit was on the bench (I have photos but am a bit embarrassed at how bad they are)!!!! Boy was this a filthy mess. The fluid had done a wonderful job of protecting the 'box considering the state it was in. It really did resemble treacle. There was an unusual smell too, not of burning just nasty, Herr Sagert checked everything thoroughly though and concluded that the 'box had survived bit the fluid most certainly had not! 
It took around an hour for the mechatronic unit to be stripped cleaned and new upgraded parts to be fitted. It really was amazing seeing these guys strip something that appears so complex and reassemble it almost without even paying attention! 
A few minutes of playing around with it hooked to a computer ( I cannot tell you what was happening as I lost the description in translation)! and it was ready to go back in the car. By this time as much oil as was going to come out had, the 'box was given a quick clean down and back in went the brains! 
After torqueing the pan and checking the rear axle we were ready for another coffee! 
Time for a test drive! This is where things get interesting, firstly when the Phaeton was delivered to the front of the building we amassed a small crowd, drivers of 7 and 8 series BMW's, Mercedes, Audi's etc. Herr Sagert didn't fancy driving around Dortmund in a RHD Phaeton. This was left to yours truly, and I enjoyed it immensely! 
First thing to note was a lack of transmission whine, just the low growl that the V10 does very well. Initial pick up seemed improved, the programmed slip between gears was much reduced, changes had become virtually imperceptible, needing a check on the tachometer for reassurance. Similarly down shifts were more controlled, and changing down in tiptronic mode was hugely improved. 
For me though, the biggest improvement was in ridding the car of the small but noticeable jolt when coming to a halt. That last change from 2nd to 1st had become quite annoying, no longer! 
Back to the workshop and back on the ramp, a final check for leaks and we get the all clear, the gearbox cover is replaced and an invoice created. 
The downside..... ZF only accept CASH from non German clients, so beware, you will need the pre agreed amount in Euros! Fortunately there is an ATM over the road at the airport! 
The journey back was as uneventful as the outward one, with one exception. I find it unnerving to be overtaken at speeds in excess of 120 mph by a funeral procession!!!! Respect 
If anyone wants/needs further info don't hesitate to PM me. I am also happy to email the few pics that I took. 

Stu


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> This is the first time in twenty years that I have driven in Belgium and, I am sad to report, the condition of their roads is far worse even that the UK's! The constant pitter patter clunk thud of the patchwork surface certainly kept me fully awake!


 Stu, 
And the Belgian highway administration had done so much to improve this situation! Remember, to better see the potholes in the dark, they even equipped every single section highway with massive illumination!  

Another question about the price of € 450. Does this include the VAT (Mehrwertsteuer or Mwst. in German)? When one has a company (with VAT number), it is possible to pay the bill excluding VAT. Savings about 80 to 90 Euro. 

For me, Dortmund is in fact quite nearby, just 2 hours driving. So this opportunity would be very interesting for me. Did herr Sagert tell anything about whether it would be interesting for the 5-shift transmission to have this done also? (after 150000 km). 
There is something else you wrote which puzzles me a bit. You wrote that he recommends to change transmission fluid every 120000 km. That is way more than what I read in various posts about transmission change intervals for various transmission types and engines. Can you give a bit more clarification on this? Thanks in advance, 

Willem


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Hi Willem, 

I had to pay VAT the total was €508.68, but I am not complaining, after all ZF carried out more work than they originally quoted for but did not charge extra. 
With regards to changing fluid, I cannot say whether the figure quoted was the "official" ZF line or based on Herr Sagerts personal experiences. I did not seek to question him further as he seemed very confident in his experiences and opinions. As he pointed out though, oil is still cheaper than gearboxes! 
I also get the impression that he (Herr Sagert) still believes that the W12 SHOULD have been fitted with the bigger stronger gearbox. 
On a bright note for all though, he reckons the transmissions are good for 500k miles if correctly maintained, he is adamant they will outlive the engines! He says that one German manufacturer constantly under specifies gearboxes hence the reason his workshop is always full of that particular marques products! On my visit however there were a wide range of vehicles, including a Mercedes Experimental bus (looked fabulous) 

Stu


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Hi Stu, 

I'm delighted to read that all lived up to expectations, I'll be trying to get over there myself next month. 

What time did you leave ZF in the end, i.e. how long did everything take? 

All best, 
Steven


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Hi Willem,
> 
> ....I also get the impression that he (Herr Sagert) still believes that the W12 SHOULD have been fitted with the bigger stronger gearbox.
> On a bright note for all though, he reckons the transmissions are good for 500k miles if correctly maintained, he is adamant they will outlive the engines!
> Stu


 Stu: 

This is very interesting info. I have always felt that the ZF 6 speed transmission in my V8 Phaeton was very robust. Despite this, my transmission was replaced at about 65k miles under my CPO VW warranty. I appreciate that VW did this, but question whether it was really necessary. My only problem was harsh and delayed down-shifting and a tendency to hunt for gears. It did however, go into limp mode once and at that point they replaced the transmission. However, subsequent to the limp mode episode, the car sat for an hour or so and I was able to drive it to the dealership with a normal shifting transmission. I will always believe that a new mechatronic unit and fluid replacement(they did try the fluid replacement first but it didn't resolve the problems) would have likely solved the problem, since it always shifted strongly but seemed confused about the timing of the shifts. 

Since I now have a rebuilt unit, hopefully with all the enhancements built in, I would like to maintain it so that it won't need replacing again. I do live in Florida and heat is probably the biggest enemy of my transmission, so I think changing the fluid periodically would be a smart thing to do. If I had a lift, I would say every 20k miles drain and measure transmission fluid that would naturally flow from the drain plug. I hear that is approximately 4-5 quarts. Since I would measure it, I would make sure I replaced the same volume, trying to make sure the temperature of the oil drained and that replaced would be moderately close. Since I don't have a lift, I may have to talk my VW tech into performing this task for me. I know I'll probably get - "This is not needed, the fluid is for life." 
Sure wish we had a ZF facility and a Herr Sagert in the U.S.:banghead: 

Jim X


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Expoman said:


> Hi Stu,
> 
> I'm delighted to read that all lived up to expectations, I'll be trying to get over there myself next month.
> 
> ...


 Hi stranger! 

Dortmund was a delight, I cannot sing the praises of these guys enough! As a fellow "yorkie" (translates into "tight" in AMERICAN) you can be assured of value for money. 
I was there for about four hours in total, excluding my "snooze/cool down" time. For you I would head to Lille, do some shopping and then potter over to Dortmund, about 2.5 hours from Lille and that misses a lot of the Belgian "highway" (worth it in my opinion)! 
I personally will be making this trip again next year with the other car, even though I currently have no issues with the box on this one. 
One thing to note, they are booking cars in about 6-10 weeks in advance! I guess their notoriety is expanding! 
Good to talk again Steven (was in Rotherham today) 

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

_Sure wish we had a ZF facility and a Herr Sagert in the U.S.:banghead: 

Jim X[/QUOTE]_ 

Jim, 

everyone has their price!!! We get the same sealed for life nonsense at most VW service departments in the UK too. A sad reflection of a dog being wagged by the tail! 

Stu


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Hi stranger!
> 
> Dortmund was a delight, I cannot sing the praises of these guys enough! As a fellow "yorkie" (translates into "tight" in AMERICAN) you can be assured of value for money.
> I was there for about four hours in total, excluding my "snooze/cool down" time. For you I would head to Lille, do some shopping and then potter over to Dortmund, about 2.5 hours from Lille and that misses a lot of the Belgian "highway" (worth it in my opinion)!
> ...


 Greetings Stu, 

It's all sounding very good, especially the value for money part - I did notice you travelled to Dortmund overnight, very wise, as during the day there are all those tempting shops open! 

I'll be calling Herr Sagert shortly, hopefully he can fit me in around the 10th of November but that's maybe a tad optimistic. 

Fingers crossed and thanks for all the info, 

All best, 
Steven


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Expoman said:


> Greetings Stu,
> 
> It's all sounding very good, especially the value for money part - I did notice you travelled to Dortmund overnight, very wise, as during the day there are all those tempting shops open!
> 
> ...


 Steven, 

I went on my own, told the wife it was bank holidays in Germany and everywhere would be shut!! When asked how come ZF would be open I told her they were Swiss!!!! 
Must have saved at least £500!!! 

Stu


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## PhaetonV10-EST (Nov 5, 2011)

Hi, 

I have same issues with my 2004 V10
I was wondering maybe i will take off the shifter brain and send it to ZF for maintenance. 
Putting the new oil in doesnt look to hard for me and i dont have time to drive 2x2000 km from Tallinn to Dortmund and back.
Is Mr Sagert still operating?
Didnt find he´s website.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> EnglishPhaeton:
> Take note all V10 drivers, drop the rear cover under the gearbox and thoroughly clean this radiator before it fails!


I can't find a drawing or description of the radiator referred to - can someone point me to a thread, or photo? I'd like to follow Stu's advice! 

Cheers,
Chris


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Booked!*

As my darling has passed the 100000 km mark (that's like 60k miles), I have been thinking about "doing" the gearbox. I am now booked with Herr Sagert in Dortmund in late February and will be cruising south for that. Wonderful!

/per


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## True_North (Jan 30, 2010)

Booked in for mid-Feb. Looks like he is a busy man!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

He should open a place somewhere around St Louis or Indianapolis, THEN see how busy he is!! You lot don't know how lucky you are!


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

*Sorry for the delay!!!*

Hi all,

I'm no photographer so I apologise in advance! Sorry for the delay in posting this but this was due to a minor illness.

Here are the few pics I took whilst in Dortmund:

http://s1106.photobucket.com/albums/h368/EnglishPhaeton/

Hope these make a little sense!!

Stu


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Stu,

That's very interesting, thanks!

Earlier in the thread you referred to the V10 TDI's gearbox oil cooler which you had to have replaced. Have I got this right - is this the Oil-to-Air cooler in the drawing here, it looks the same as the one in your photo?

So this particular gearbox configuration has two cooling systems; the engine coolant intercooling with the gearbox oil by means of one heat exchanger (by which I mean that the engine coolant rising in temperature helps warm up the gearbox oil when it's cold, but under load the gearbox dumps oil heat into the engine coolant).

Also, there's this oil-to-air radiator which presumably helps cool the oil at high speeds when there's a decent air flow past the underbody.

And it can get clogged... from the photo yours looks like it picked up some thick oil that then collected muck and clogged the fins - or was it leaking?


Chris


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

So ZF replaced your transmission fluid and the car metamorphosed into a Robin?


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Prince Ludwig said:


> So ZF replaced your transmission fluid and the car metamorphosed into a Robin?


Harry,

I believe you are referring to the prototype for the upcoming 2014 Phaeton! This is to reduce weight and allow use of the four cylinder engines promised by VW!!!!!!! Sorry, but I can't get to grips with Photobucket and the Robin was in response to the Chevy Volt thread!!

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Hi Stu,
> 
> That's very interesting, thanks!
> 
> ...


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Hi Chris,
> you have the correct cooler there. Mine did clog and then overheated, allowing the gearbox to fry the oil and eventually causing the cooler to leak!!
> 
> Stu


Thanks Stu. I'll have great fun trying to explain to the dealership what I want inspecting/cleaning! ("It's not on the schedule!")

Cheers,
Chris


PS - loved the Reliant video - maybe with some big traction batteries for the electric version it will not turn over on corners - mostly because it won't go round them!


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Nah...*



True_North said:


> Booked in for mid-Feb. Looks like he is a busy man!


I am going to Provence then and decided to do the ZF thing at the same time. He's probably not that booked...

/per


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## True_North (Jan 30, 2010)

Just got home from the 850 mile ZF Dortmund and back. Herr Sagert personaly welcomed me and talked about the car. Arrived 0830 local, I was called through to look at the oil pan and mechatronic unit - all in good order with no debris to be seen on the magnets and the oil in fairly good shape for 80,000 miles. Car finished, including a test drive, by 1100. The gearchange is much smoother and it appears to change quicker, but maybe that's just me. Fantastic service and an excellent job all round. As an aside, there was an Audi A6 also in, that had not had a gearbox service until now, although it was 10 years old. The magnets were surrounded by a cluster of debris and Herr Sagert reckoned it would fail inside 10,000 miles. Ho hum.
Also as an aside, I stayed at the Etap hotel which, apart from being cheap (40 Euros inc breakfast), is only 1.5 Km from the ZF facility. A cool gearbox speeds up the service considerably!:laugh:


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi,

Do you have the phone number of Herr Sagert ?

Thanks,

P.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Pierre, while you're on the phone with him, would you mind asking him if there are any similar service shops in the US that he can recommend?? The dealer list seems to point to wholesale/remanufacturing businesses rather than servicers.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

I will do so.

P.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Merci beaucoups! This thread has me leaning back towards a fluid change at minimum.....


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## True_North (Jan 30, 2010)

Here is a link to their pdf with all contact details and a map. Add the Country prefix of +49 and drop the first '0' to telephone.

I did most of my communication by email, which was responded to very promptly. Herr Sagert's english is good - compared to my german!

Mike


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

I forgot to post about my visit...

It went well. Arrived at 07.30, got in ten minutes after that and was out by 10:45.

On a side note, they informed me that it is only the 5-speed that needs mechatronic service. On the 6- and 7-speed transmissions, they do not service the mechatronic unit. Should they, the gasket and seal alone are €300... The car feels fine after the trop. Got "flashed in the face" outside of Lausanne on the way down to Provence, and then again on a roadwork section near Kassel. At both times I was doing "slightly above" the posted speed limit (hrmf) but I have not received any letters yet. If I do, I will get an RF expert to testify that the front 76 GHz radar in my car often triggers speed cameras...

I do believe that the 6-speed gear box should be serviced by normal vw dealers. Just tell them to change the oil, the plastic feed tube, the filter and the drain plug. That's all that the Sagert Team did. The parts are available. So, all you in the US, just make them do it!

All the best,

P


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Per,

Did Herr Sagert explain which 6-speed gearboxes he was referring to, in connection with {not} servicing the mechatronic unit?

It's just that Stu took his V10 6-speed with 6HP32A box, and they did drop and service that unit.

I'm not querying what you said, just interested in connection with my V10!

Cheers,
Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

D'oh! You've got me leaning the other way again!!! For my next service in a couple of months I'm planning to take it to the dealer which I think has the most Phaeton experience in the area (Boardwalk in Plano), so I might ask them to do the tranny fluid at the same time. I'll still have a year left on the warranty, so if I'm going to do it I think now's the time.


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## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

Paximus said:


> Hi Per,
> 
> Did Herr Sagert explain which 6-speed gearboxes he was referring to, in connection with {not} servicing the mechatronic unit?
> 
> ...


I had my V10 gearbox serviced by Herr Sagert last week. He offered the Mechatronic service as a (highly recommended) option, in addition to the fluid and filter change. It adds about 55 euros to the cost, because of the need to fit a new gasket plate on reassembly ("zwischenbleck"), taking the total to 550 euros including VAT. 

I stayed overnight at the ETAP hotel Dortmund Ost, which is only 2km from the ZF service centre, cheap and clean, and arrived at 08:00 prompt with a cold gearbox. The service was finished at 11:15, and after a test drive and a check for oil leaks I was on my way. I was relieved to find my oil-air intercooler was clean, the oil was dirty but not burnt, and the magnetic plugs only had very light contamination -all was well according to Herr Sagert, but an oil change essential to preserve the future life of the gearbox.

Following the service the thump as first gear is selected coming to a halt is gone, and a rough downchange from fourth to third has also been cured. All changes are very smooth, but to be honest my gearbox was working pretty well anyway. 

There was a silver V6 TDi Phaeton also in for service, and parked outside was what I took to be a W12 going by the exhaust tips and Brembo brakes, but badged only "GP0".

I then took the Phaeton on an extended road test down to Stuttgart, over to Munich before returning home through France. More on this in another thread!

Mike


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks, Mike - that's good to know that they cover the bigger box on the V10 as well as the others. Glad it worked out comfortably for you, too. The trip sounds interesting!

I think I will pay Dortmund a visit later in the year. After sorting out the turbos...

Chris


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> Thanks, Mike - that's good to know that they cover the bigger box on the V10 as well as the others. Glad it worked out comfortably for you, too. The trip sounds interesting!
> 
> I think I will pay Dortmund a visit later in the year. After sorting out the turbos...
> 
> Chris


Chris,

Turbos in France, then on to Germany for the gearbox!! Go on you know you want to.

Stu


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## gymiller (Nov 30, 2010)

I know this has been asked in the past, but is there any resource in North America who might do something similar? It would be an incredible service to access, within driving distance of course.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

ZF centers in the US should be able to do the same thing... if there are such things as ZF centers...

P.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Zaphh said:


> ZF centers in the US should be able to do the same thing... if there are such things as ZF centers...
> 
> P.


Pierre,

ZF in the UK CANNOT service the gearbox as they do in Germany, who knows why..............

Stu


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Chris,
> 
> Turbos in France, then on to Germany for the gearbox!! Go on you know you want to.
> 
> Stu


Stu,

Chris seems to be taking your advice!

He could possibly add Willen in NL to the tour and have his Kessy checked over......

Blimey, Phaeton repair and maintenance holidays, a new business opportunity presents itself - imagine the QE2 docking in Rotterdam with dozens of Phaetons from all over the world driving off in convoy!


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Expoman said:


> Stu,
> 
> Chris seems to be taking your advice!
> 
> ...


Willem of course, apologies, will have to take these gloves off before I type......


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

gymiller said:


> I know this has been asked in the past, but is there any resource in North America who might do something similar? It would be an incredible service to access, within driving distance of course.


I've done extensive online searching for ZF facilities in the US with no success. They're all wholesale-type part suppliers as far as I can tell, none of the ones listed on the ZF site appear to do any actual servicing.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

invisiblewave said:


> I've done extensive online searching for ZF facilities in the US with no success. They're all wholesale-type part suppliers as far as I can tell, none of the ones listed on the ZF site appear to do any actual servicing.



I did same and also no success.

Jim X


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I've made a definite decision to get it done at the dealer before my warranty expires. Just have to decide which dealer!


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

I had never read this thread until today. Very entertaining, on the one hand, and very disappointing in the other that people in Europe can do a maintenance that is apparently not recommended/documented/trained for in the U.S. Doing a mere fluid change in the U.S. will certainly not cover the mechatronic maintenance/rebuild. :thumbdown:

Does anyone know if the W12 gearbox has a radiator similar to the one that was found dirty on Englishphaeton's V10? Should I ask that it be cleaned?

I had totally forgotten about the 20,000 mi transmission fluid replacement that was mentioned in this forum several years ago and for which I just downloaded the official flyer. My VW dealer did not mention this at the 60,000 maintenance we just did a few weeks ago!

Furthermore, the service technician said he's never done it because when he recommended it to some of his clients no one took it and so he's stopped bringing it up.

*This is so screwed up*. Anyway, since I just dropped the car for A/C service, they'll look into this now. They'll send me a $ quote.

Finally, can someone please explain why this required for W12 and not for V8? This is not an idle question –I have the V8 Touareg that has the same 4.2L engine and a 6-gear transmission that is possibly similar to V8 Phaeton.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Itzmann
> ...Does anyone know if the W12 gearbox has a radiator similar to the one that was found dirty on Englishphaeton's V10? Should I ask that it be cleaned?


The 5HP24A gearbox on the W12 doesn't have that radiator referred to on the V10.

There's a little discussion on the W12 ATF change in this thread: W12 Service Bulletin (Transmission Fluid Change every 20K miles)

Cheers,
Chris


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

About the 20kmiles fluid change in W12... My owners manual's maintainence schedule clearly states that transmission fluid should be changed every 30000 km. It also mentions the interval for V8 transmissions, while the V6 TDI is mentioned as "filled for life".

Now, this is for a 2006. What's in the US version of the maintainence schedule?

p


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Now that's interesting: I never saw a schedule for transmission oil change for a V8 other than it's for the life of the car...

What is the schedule for the V8 per the manual ?


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Itzmann said:


> Finally, can someone please explain why this required for W12 and not for V8? This is not an idle question –I have the V8 Touareg that has the same 4.2L engine and a 6-gear transmission that is possibly similar to V8 Phaeton.


I believe the Touareg 6 speed automatic is Japanese built by Aisin as opposed to our ZFs in the Phaeton. However, I think most enthusiasts recommend a periodic change for this transmission as well. They are prone to valve bodies failing.

Jim X


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

Zaphh said:


> Now that's interesting: I never saw a schedule for transmission oil change for a V8 other than it's for the life of the car...
> 
> What is the schedule for the V8 per the manual ?


I'm currently on an ice-breaker (at quay) and will be back home tomorrow evening. I'll scan the German manual that I have for MY2006 and even translate for you all  It has the intervals for V8 and W12 in it if I remember correctly.

/p


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

Itzmann said:


> Anyway, since I just dropped the car for A/C service, they'll look into this now. They'll send me a $ quote.



$575 for replacing the transmission oil at the 60,000 mile service. 
And the fun thing is that now that now that this is a service item, by skipping on it, the extended warranty would have grounds to deny a claim on a transmission failure.

On the other hand, I did do the 60,000 mile service at 50,000. And Shiva-like, on yet another hand... I did not do the transmission oil at 40,000.

:banghead:


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## Golodkin (Jun 11, 2009)

Yesterday, I had my GP1’s V6 tdi transmission fluid changed + mechatronic maintenance at ZF’s. 
As wouterjansen60 had his appointment the same day, we kept a mini Lowlands GTG over lunch on a Dortmunder terrace. 

All went very fine, both our cars got the “Herr Sagert Control Stamp”, we both had to pay the same amount (416 EUR = $ 530) and both our P. shift and drive noticeably smoother.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You lot don't know how lucky you are to have access to this facility!!! 

The latest discussion with the latest dealer got me nowhere. Their techs say to leave it alone, despite what I've told them about what ZF recommend. They say they'll do it if I insist, but that if something goes wrong afterwards the warranty may not cover it because the flush wasn't recommended by VW!!!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

That's ridiculous! Would they disclaim the warranty if the engine oil was changed in between the Service Now warnings as well?! :screwy:


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

What they're saying is that it's not part of the VW recommended maintenance. I also called the PCC line and they said the same thing, there's no service schedule for changing the ATF. 

Point taken though, it is, indeed, ridiculous.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

So if an ATF cooler line became snagged on holiday in another state and you had to have an ATF service because of loss of fluid (not claimed on warranty of course, no time to get prior approval), that would safeguard the gearbox warranty? :sly:


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## DBadged (Sep 15, 2012)

*Thankyou Vortex Phaeton members*

I have been dbadged since buying a V10 with8000mls 6 years ago first reg; to Bentley.Could'nt sell em so probably given to their poncy salesmen.Had 850R estate -most saw it as oldmans estate -won british touring then banned.I love my V10 nobody knows what it is. I tell um its a passet on steroids its really on speed.Nothing to touch it. ULTIMATE QQCAR. Before u ask i was debagged 37 years ago this Nov.This is my first time on a comduter an ipad spent the last 5 days looking at phaetons.Took me 4 goes to register on this site & seriously worth it.Scared of computers crazy when i'm so into fine engineering. hence the ultimate A PHAETON. There is some real -rap out there but this site is fantastic.Thankyou all very much for inputs i've learnt so much , especially Stu i'm booked to see Herr Sagert end of Oct. Jon


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

DBadged said:


> I have been dbadged since buying a V10 with8000mls 6 years ago first reg; to Bentley.Could'nt sell em so probably given to their poncy salesmen.Had 850R estate -most saw it as oldmans estate -won british touring then banned.I love my V10 nobody knows what it is. I tell um its a passet on steroids its really on speed.Nothing to touch it. ULTIMATE QQCAR. Before u ask i was debagged 37 years ago this Nov.This is my first time on a comduter an ipad spent the last 5 days looking at phaetons.Took me 4 goes to register on this site & seriously worth it.Scared of computers crazy when i'm so into fine engineering. hence the ultimate A PHAETON. There is some real -rap out there but this site is fantastic.Thankyou all very much for inputs i've learnt so much , especially Stu i'm booked to see Herr Sagert end of Oct. Jon


Welcome Jon,

you don't need to be afraid here!! However for someone so scared of computers the Phaeton isn't the obvious choice 

The V10 is indeed a very fine QCar, I am sure that Herr Sagert will look after you and your car, he is becoming something of a cult figure here!

One question Jon, where are you located? It REALLY is helpful if/when you require help.

Regards
Stu


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

> Before u ask i was debagged 37 years ago this Nov


Debagging



Seriously, though, welcome to the forum 

Harry


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Prince Ludwig said:


> Debagging
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Harry,

probably went to the same public school as you...... :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Stu


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## DBadged (Sep 15, 2012)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Harry,
> 
> probably went to the same public school as you...... :laugh::laugh::laugh:
> 
> Stu


Public school my ass Bath Tech: Proud Somerset Cider Drinker


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Stu,

I may have been to public school but I didn't board so missed out on many of the usual pleasures of such institutions 

H


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Prince Ludwig said:


> Stu,
> 
> I may have been to public school but I didn't board so missed out on many of the usual pleasures of such institutions
> 
> H


:laugh::laugh:

It's good being English (British)!


Stu


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## DBadged (Sep 15, 2012)

Stu. 
Good to be a Brit ? Not if u want VW Dealer advice for a Phaeton.Could be worse .Having spent 4days on vwvortex gladto be driving my V10 here & not in USA.Re computers & Phaetons -I did use a PC 6 years ago with help to research Phaetons & saw enough from owners to realise this is a very special car. 78000 trouble free miles untill hammering through France on way to Millau.Another fantastic engineering feat.A pleasure to drive German excellence over under & around French English awesome construction. Hit a heatwave still drove hard -started to get lumpy gearchanges in1&2. Back in Mendips Somerset -up on ramp in mates garage -trany oil low - took 1L to top up.After 2 years of Phaeton techs.always serviced &repaired ourselves.A little knowledge is abad thing.65miles later in Poole & warm box is playing up again.Hence the ipad & this new wealth of facts.Now in Jersey will hardly use car untill i go to Dortmund in 6 weeks -unsure of atf compatability.St Malo only 75mins away.Wondering if French VW techs more tuned in or maybe German VW garages inDortmund or Essen or Dusseldorf. Any advice greatly received. Jon.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

DBadged said:


> Stu.
> Good to be a Brit ? Not if u want VW Dealer advice for a Phaeton.Could be worse .Having spent 4days on vwvortex gladto be driving my V10 here & not in USA.Re computers & Phaetons -I did use a PC 6 years ago with help to research Phaetons & saw enough from owners to realise this is a very special car. 78000 trouble free miles untill hammering through France on way to Millau.Another fantastic engineering feat.A pleasure to drive German excellence over under & around French English awesome construction. Hit a heatwave still drove hard -started to get lumpy gearchanges in1&2. Back in Mendips Somerset -up on ramp in mates garage -trany oil low - took 1L to top up.After 2 years of Phaeton techs.always serviced &repaired ourselves.A little knowledge is abad thing.65miles later in Poole & warm box is playing up again.Hence the ipad & this new wealth of facts.Now in Jersey will hardly use car untill i go to Dortmund in 6 weeks -unsure of atf compatability.St Malo only 75mins away.Wondering if French VW techs more tuned in or maybe German VW garages inDortmund or Essen or Dusseldorf. Any advice greatly received. Jon.


Jon,

you MUST ONLY use ZF Lifeguard 6 in your transmission, this is made by Shell and is available in the UK but I have lost the Shell details (sorry). Lifeguard 6 is available from VW dealers (and probably Landrover dealers cheaper).

Try and get under the car (as a matter of some urgency) and check the transmission fluid radiator, it may well be blocked up and causing the fluid to overheat. Mine did this and then fried itself, resulting in ZF replacing it for me.

There are pics somewhere in this thread if I remember rightly.

Stu


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

I would like to post the answer I got from ZF in regards to servicing the transmission on the US:

Hi Juan:

We have a partnership with BOSCH, they have been trained on our transmissions and have access to the genuine parts to ensure proper operation. Check out this link for one in your area: http://www.boschcarservice.us/



Mit freundlichen Grüßen/Kind regards 
Tom Galla
Product Manager - Flywheels, Hydraulics & Passenger Car Transmissions


I know is not the same, but is the closest we can get to service the transmissions on this side of the pond.

Juan


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks for posting this, Juan.

I found several places within a doable drive from my house.

Victor


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Sure. 

It will be nice if anybody take his/her car to any of this shops and post the experience around here for the rest of us. 

Juan


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Well. I'll be the first one posting my experience. I took my car yesterday to one of the shops listed on the Bosch site so they can take a look at my transmission because I was having like a moment of Neutral changing from 1st to 2nd, at around 2000 rpm, and they found out that my transmission was low on ATF(4.5 quartz to be precise). 

I'm going to take the car for a short drive today and tomorrow and if everything is fine I'll take it on a 500 miles trip and see how's behaving.


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

*At long last I'm booked in with Herr Sagert!*

Well, Wednesday 4th of November is the big day, I'm booked in at last!

Really looking forward to getting those lovely smooth changes back and we always enjoy a trip to Germany.

I will regale you all with the details on my return.

All best,
Steven


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Have a good time!


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Thanks, Chris.

I think Stu has already posted the definitive guide to a "Trip to ZF Dortmund" but if anything news comes up, I will post it upon my return.

If anyone has any questions they would like me to ask or specific photos while the car is going through the process, please let me know.

Best,
S


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## Expoman (May 15, 2011)

Well, I am now back in SW France after my trip to ZF Dortmund.

Stu has documented the whole process so well that it doesn't require an real additions from me. Suffice it to say that I have had all of the same positive benefits as he records at a cost of €490, arriving there at 08.00 and leaving at 11.30.

Good to learn that my transmission is in A1 shape after some 115,000 miles.

Unfortunately, what the process didn't solve was the occasional "think" at very low speed / dead stop which the Chgief Mechanic who took me on the test drive said is an electronic issue, i.e. the gearbox is not getting the right command at the right time from the CPU so is slipping in an unnecessary change. He said it is definitely not a fault of the transmission itself and that it is a fault that should be hunted down by a VW dealer with the appropriate scanning gear. His view was that as the P is such a complex car, one should consider how much a bother it is before committing the funds!

Overall I'm very satisfied and would recommend the experience and result to anyone within reasonable travelling range - there are, of course, similar ZF stations in other parts of Germany for those not travelling from the UK /Benelux / Northern France.

Best,
S


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

good news, since 2013 ZF Netherlands do the same service as in germany. also the same price € 450 ex vat. incl. filter, oil, cleaning and change of some small parts of the megatronic unit.


jorg


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

Sure would be nice if someone on the Eastern US seaboard did this service. My transmission has returned to its former tach revving behavior after 20,000 miles with new fluid


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*20k intervals for fluid change sounds "reasonable"*

Art,

Have you tried throwing two rounds of transmission fluid through the case? I did this at one point. Intellectually, I find this a little irritating as it feels like I am ignoring some other issue that has decreased the transmission's tolerance to fluid state (perhaps). But it is a car not an idea, so whatever works is cool with me.

Also, it is alleged (I have not confirmed) that any Bosch-certified shop in the US should be "qualified" to place a remanufactured mechatronic unit in the transmission (any transmission shop should be qualified, but my understanding is that Bosch certifies techs for ZF transmission work). I have debated doing this on a couple of occasions and have twice gone for a fluid and filter (which was the cheaper option)...also, I have had tach revs when it was the fuel filter/fuel pump/MAF that was faulty. 

-BD


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

We followed the protocol that had been used with positive results by other owners. They drained the existing fluid, put in new fluid, then drained that and then put in a second batch. This "cured" my issue for about 30,000 miles


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