# 2005.5 Jetta 2.5 engine timing chain issues



## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

Hi,
So my 2005.5 Jetta 2.5 has had timing chain issues since about 62,000 miles. Now it's at 83,000 miles and the timing chain has skipped ahead and stretched for the third time. My dealership explained the tension is controled by oil pressure so they suspect an oil pressure issue, but they've inspected everything and say it all looks fine. They put in a call to VW to get ideas on what else to do. Has anyone else had a similiar experience? So far they've only said that an obstruction might exist in an oil passage, and they just cannot see it without x-raying the lower part of the engine, and they don't have that type of equipment. So far it was covered by warranty the other two times it was fixed. The last time this issue happened was in July so it seems like it is getting more frequent.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

bryanp22 said:


> Hi,
> So my 2005.5 Jetta 2.5 has had timing chain issues since about 62,000 miles. Now it's at 83,000 miles and the timing chain has skipped ahead and stretched for the third time. My dealership explained the tension is controled by oil pressure so they suspect an oil pressure issue, but they've inspected everything and say it all looks fine. They put in a call to VW to get ideas on what else to do. Has anyone else had a similiar experience? So far they've only said that an obstruction might exist in an oil passage, and they just cannot see it without x-raying the lower part of the engine, and they don't have that type of equipment. So far it was covered by warranty the other two times it was fixed. The last time this issue happened was in July so it seems like it is getting more frequent.



The cylinder head has to be removed from this motor, and transmission dropped as well (yes both) to do a timing chain job on this motor. They should not be telling you "we can't see inside the motor". They need to tear this motor down on their dime and fix it or replace the ENTIRE motor. If there was a blocked oil passage they would see the resulting damage else where in the motor, or cylinder heads, if they did a proper timing chain job!

What parts did they replace the last two times? If all your dealership did was reset the timing, they ripped you off. Also, you should not have to pay for this! CALL VWoA!!!! There is a well known rate of failures on early VW mkV rabbit timing chains and they are aware of this! Did they even replace the tensioner on your other two chain jobs? 

In Indiana if a car has the same problem three times the same way (three timing chain failures) the manufacturer is required to buy the vahicle back from you under lemon laws.

Nobody knows yet why this is happening. Something happened w/early 2.5 and this is the result. Not one single person has come up with a cause yet so don't let the dealership make you think they know otherwise.

If your car has less than 10,000 miles out of warranty the MOST you should have to pay is just for parts, ZERO LABOR. I would pay NOTHING and get a lawyer if my 2.5 chain went out three times though. You need to contact VWoA if they dealership attempts to get you to pay one cent for this repair.

What did they fix the last two times this went out? It sounds to me like they're just moving the timing back where it needs to be and sending you on your way, rather than fixing the problem. Oh btw, other people after multiple chain failures from one motor got a BRAND NEW REMANUFACTURERD MOTOR FROM VW. They owe you big time for not fixing this properly the last two times, don't let them off the hook.

Tell them a timing chain is not a timing belt. Tell them you expect a timing chain to last no less than 100,000 miles. Tell them you're not paying anything because they didn't fix the motor correctly. Tell them you want them to "good faith" this warranty repair. Call VWoA if you hear one single thing you don't like from them. Look into your state's lemon laws.

If all else fails, get a 2007+ motor for about $1,000 and pay someone $600 to install it. Done and done. DO NOT REPAIR THE CURRENT MOTOR ON YOUR OWN DIME ITS A WASTE AND JUNKED OUT BY SKIPPING CONSTANTLY HAS ONLY THROWN THE TOLERANCES AND DIMENSIONS EVEN FURTHER OUT OF WHACK. IT WILL HAVE MANY PROBLEMS IN THE NEAR FUTURE.


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## dibenej1 (Apr 10, 2003)

I just had a timing chain related failure with my wife's 2005.5 Jetta 2.5. She bought the car new and did all maintenance at factory intervals. At 98k it threw a P1340 CEL and started to run poorly. I had it towed to a local VW only shop and they found the timing way off which they have seen on at least 2 other cars so far. They also found bent valves. I called VWoA and they say they have not heard of the issue. I called the local dealer and described the symptoms, he said they have seen a number of them and guessed streched upper chain. I had the local shop fix the car and just got it back for a little under $2100. I had upper and lower chains, tensioners, and guides all replaced, but the shop isn't exactly sure what failed. They said the engine was clean and didn't suspect an oil issue. A momentary drop in pressure may have let the chain jump I guess, probably won't ever know for sure.

I called VWoA again and spoke to a different rep. They still say there is no known issue with the timing chains and since I am out of warranty by time and miles there was nothing they could offer. I filed a defect report on the NHTSA site, maybe if they investigate it will eventually turn into a recall. I'd suggest you file a defect report with NHTSA also, let me know if you need details on how to do it.

It sounds like you have an extended warranty, is it with VW or a third party? If VW is going to fix your car, I'd get them to do a compression test or something to check for bent valves. My car still ran with 3 bent...


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

dibenej1 said:


> ... I called VWoA again and spoke to a different rep. They still say there is no known issue with the timing chains and since I am out of warranty by time and miles there was nothing they could offer. I filed a defect report on the NHTSA site, maybe if they investigate it will eventually turn into a recall. I'd suggest you file a defect report with NHTSA also, let me know if you need details on how to do it.
> 
> It sounds like you have an extended warranty, is it with VW or a third party? If VW is going to fix your car, I'd get them to do a compression test or something to check for bent valves. My car still ran with 3 bent...


HIS CAR HAS BEEN RUNNING WITH BENT VALVES FOR YEARS!!!! HE IS ON HIS THIRD CHAIN JOB!!! The dealership completely wrecked your motor under warranty and it needs to be fixed ON THEIR DIME. If they had diagnosed this properly, you would have a new motor... not a fixed one or a jury rigged one, but a new motor shipped from manufacturer (remanfactured). They screwed you on your warranty! Your motor is honestly a paper weight dude. Don't even consider repairing it!

VWoA DOES KNOW ABOUT THIS!!!! They've seen how many warranty claims from how many 05 and 06 vw's yet they claim they know nothing? You can search on vwvorted and count the people that have talked to them about this exact problem even. They're so full of it.


Based on what I know. I would be willing to wager that his dealership replaced nothing, just forced the stretched chain back into "position" every time he brought it in. They can skip a chain backwards very easily actually by force... resulting in the "repair". If they tear the motor down, take the cylinder head to a machine shop and see what they tell you about it. I'm guessing it will be something to the effect of "more $$$ than its worth to fix". Take that same cylinder head back to the stealership and watch what they say/do with it... 



In the past two repairs. What did they replace on this motor? How long did they have the car? etc etc. I really feel that they screwed you on this one dude.


If you're not trying to get into all that. Honestly, do yourself a favor and start looking for a new motor because the one you have is completely junked. These motors can't skip a tooth once w/out needing new valves, cam gears, etc etc. So please please just do yourself a favor and either get it fixed for free or drop a new motor in, (NOT AT THE DEALERSHIP). Joe Blow mechanic in BFE wisconsin that charges like $50/hr for labor is perfectly capable of dropping in a new motor. Just don't count on him to split it open for serious repairs :laugh:

There are also some great VW shops about half a days drive or less from you that will give you some AWESOME options if you're into a little motor sports enthusiasm or just looking for a basic engine swap/replacement.



One thing I'm really curious about. What kinda gas mileage does this motor get w/all the bent valves and skipped chains its running now? like 20mpg highway?

CALL VWoA and get a pen and paper. Ask them what was repaired the first time, what was repaired the second time, and most importantly what was fixed additionally over the first time, the second time. Point being. if they fixed it once, why would that repair work a second time? What parts were replaced? Out of those parts, which ones were revised parts? If they say "we've never heard of this problem before" then ask them why they felt the motor is capable of being repaired and wasn't fully replaced under warranty. Etc etc. Get them in the hot seat and write it all down then fire that ammo at the stealership. The dealership has already told you its an oil pressure problem, which isn't true. WHAT OTHER DAMAGE IS THERE FROM LOW OIL PRESSURE???? NOOOOOOONEEEEE. NOBODY KNOWS WHY THIS HAPPENS!!!! but if there was an oil pressure problem it is 99% likely that there would be a TON of other damage in the upper cylinder head if oil pressure was low enough to screw up your tensioner.

I would rip someone's head off if they tried to take my motor away from me that I payed a good $16,500 for when I bought a NEW CAR that was supposed to last 100k miles!


If you do by chance fix the motor's timing chain the next 20x it goes out, maybe the problem will reveal itself. Somehow I doubt you can afford this though, as VW obviously couldn't when they designed the motor.

There are guys that have been working on VW for 20 years, etc etc, hell bent on tearing this motor down and discovering what caused the issue. Not one of them, not even a single experienced technician, has found any evidence of the cause. Not one tuning shop, not one mechanic, not one engineer, nobody. How many times has this motor been torn down and oil pressure was determined to be the culprit, NONE. Even the tensioner itself, that now has a different part number (revision) still looks and functions IDENTICALLY to the old one. Nobody knows wtf is going on but its one of those deep dark secrets that VW is taking to the grave rather than suffer through another recall.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I think its about time that someone organized a class action lawsuit against VW for this chain issue. Does anyone know anything about anyone trying to start one?


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

The first time I had timing chain issues it was under extended warranty so I just paid the $100 deductible and the rest was covered. The total bill would have been around $3300. From what I was told they replaced both chains, tensioners and everything related to both chains. The second time they just replaced the upper chain and tensioner. I stopped in my VW dealership Friday and they had the engine all torn apart. The transmission was pulled, and it looked to me that all that was left still in the car was the lower block. The sad thing is the engine looks brand new inside. Even the service manager commented on how new the engine looked inside. Total I've probably been without my car about 12 days now. Kind of stinks the lemon law didn't apply. One thing to note is my car has always consumed oil from new. Dealership told me this was normal in 2005. Of course it isn't documented anywhere since it's just a phone call. Maybe that has something to do with this issue. The car is at the dealership where I bought it right now. They didn't make me pay a dime for the second time this happened, and so far they said they'll do my best to get it covered again. I agree a re-manufactured engine is probably the best option, but I may wait it out a couple of days before I suggest that to my dealership. They did tell me that the car must be getting low oil pressure for some reason and that is causing the issue. Right now they gave me a free rental so I am not in to big of a hurry. Everyone that had a VW around the time I purchased mine has sense sold it because of a variety of issues. I'm beginning to think VWs are just money pits and unless you lease or have a car under warranty it isn't worth the hassle of owning. I never liked Ford or Chevorlet but when my car broke down last week I saw the benefit of owning them. It was extremely difficult to find a place to work on my car in northern wisconsin. I'm still debating just selling or trading in the car after this is all over.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

If that same motor stays in the car after all this is said and done, SELL it. Remember its cheaper to drop a new 2.5 in than fix the old one too. Timing chains are not meant to break on motors like this. The cylinders and valves occupy the same space at different times. Removing the link between the two (the timing chain) and suddenly they occupy the same space at the same time! Guess what, bent valves are worth more to fix than a 2.5 w/40-60k miles on it is worth!

I am glad to hear you see they've actually taken the steps to replace your timing chain fully. Thus far, this is the solution everyone uses to resolve this issue. It is still less effective than purchasing a used motor with low mileage (40-60k) and more expensive to boot. However, there is also a lot to be said about keeping a motor and transmision mated for life, versus swapping them around which also causes longevity issues, although a far cry from timing chain issues.

When my 09+ motor comes due for a new timing chain, it won't be because it skipped or let loose. It will be because it has about 150-200k miles on it and the actual guides are failing (sounds like marbles inside your motor). This is the NORMAL way to replace timing chains and they are NOT one of those items that should just be replaced when its time. Timing chain failures are the worst nightmare when it comes to motors. Worse than crank walk, leaky seals, etc etc. It is the worst case scenario of engine failure IMO. However, a timing chain should be INFINITELY more reliable than any external belt. Hence why belts are replaced on intervals, typically earlier than suggested, and chains are replaced when the guides start to make an actual noise... not based on some arbitrary interval. Chains are supposed to last the life of a motor, period, never needing serviced.



Get a ford if you really want to. They are amazing cars these days. The new fiesta and focus are simply AMAZING and will not have issues like this! The VW is a good built reliable car, but they have a lot of shared parts across platforms that cause wide spread chaos. MK4 was a horrible build quality too, but still reliable. If it were not for ignition coils being revised over the past 10 years with VW's, they would be near the top of the charts in terms of reliability. Don't let the reports fool you, these are good cars. Coil packs are a minor minor issue and shouldn't affect the reports but the guys writing those things don't see it that way.

These 2.5's are the first timing chain issues we've seen since the 12v vr6 over a decade ago. The vr6 had a very easily resolved timing chain issue too, they just added a couple more bolts to the upper guide and boom they stopped letting go before 150k. This issue with the 2.5 is much more complex. Everyone suspects oil pressure, because the chain tensioner operates on oil pressure. Further more, none of the chain parts are defective or worn or broken when these motors skip a tooth. So, by deduction the techs have concluded that this is an oil pressure issue, as there is no other visible cause. Nobody knows for sure though, nobody knows why the tensioner is allowing the chain to skip. NOTHING else shows evidence of a reason why a chain would skip, so the culprit has to be oil pressure.

Still not really a solid conclusion eh? Sry you had to get a bad VW but I promise the other MK5's are great cars and VW is building these things better than they have for years. Trust me, I owned a few of them an MK4 was by far the WORST and mk5 is well, the best imo.

As far as you saying your VW burned oil. Pretty much all cars burn some oil these days. It is normal for your VW to consume about 1qt over 10k miles. What is scary is 1qt low is about the LIMIT before your oil pressure start to suffer. Also, nobody runs 10k mile intervals. VW is an idiot for suggesting this. Most of us run 5k - 7.5k between oil changes around here. 8500 miles is the limit of any good group 4 oil that has been sent in for independent testing. Not one time has anyone receives a green light on the 10k intervals except from VW manual. The 10k intervals are also against VW history of maintenance. Normally they don't indicate 10k for the first intervals, but 5k the first few changes then 10k once the motor is out of its break in period. Doubtful this caused your timing chain issue though, as I've said before the other 2.5 motors from this model year have a few noted revisions, are different, and are not suffereing from timing chain skipping constantly for no apparent reason. Motors in europe run about 15,000 to 30,000 miles between oil changes. So don't take everything so literally but optimally 10k is way beyond the boundary that I feel comfortable running, based on oil reports and at what point the oil pretty much loses its additives. Not that it still doesn't work well, just doesn't work GREAT.

I change my oil every 5-6k since it was new w/ lubro moly 0w40 (I left the OEM oil in the motor for the first 5k miles incase they added some kinda magical break in gunk to it). It doesn't burn a drop. Check it out at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1815983

mobil 1 high mileage is also an amazing oil, pretty much the best from a technical stand point. technically better than lm 0w40 and cheaper too. i've just had such good luck w/my LM that i'm not switching to mobil 1. But damn the exchange rate really hurts buying german oil!

The castrol VW tells us to use in the states is completely different from German Castrol. The US Castrol is junk and should be avoided. The Castrol Edge is pretty good though for my grandam's lil tanky from 1974 though lol! Buy a grand am if you want a reliable car. I'll sell you my 2004! Nothing but brakes and oil its whole life, great little car. Finally replaced plugs at 100k a few months ago! I've never had a VW do that for me!


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

My VW dealership called and VW wants to replace the cylinder head. The tech believes that is the issue even though they cannot find a defect with mine. I asked what happens if it happens again since they cannot find the issue and the guys said the parts have a 12 month or 12,000 mile warranty. The repair is $5000 and VW will cover 90% of the bill. Personally I feel like I tried getting it fixed two years ago and this was missed, but they won't budge. I don't want to complain to much or I am worried they'll rescind the offer. I may file some complaints after its fixed with VWOA and the BBB. Anyone else I should contact? I did ask about a remanufactured engine and they said VW would not allow that and I'd have to pay for the new engine and labor.


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

bryanp22 said:


> My VW dealership called and VW wants to replace the cylinder head. The tech believes that is the issue even though they cannot find a defect with mine. I asked what happens if it happens again since they cannot find the issue and the guys said the parts have a 12 month or 12,000 mile warranty. The repair is $5000 and VW will cover 90% of the bill. Personally I feel like I tried getting it fixed two years ago and this was missed, but they won't budge. I don't want to complain to much or I am worried they'll rescind the offer. I may file some complaints after its fixed with VWOA and the BBB. Anyone else I should contact? I did ask about a remanufactured engine and they said VW would not allow that and I'd have to pay for the new engine and labor.


I'd take a new cylinder head for $500...


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

I know they are giving me quite the discount, but I still feel I brought the car in under warranty and they missed the real issue. It should have been fixed when it was free. They also cannot confirm this is the true issue so I just don't know if it's worth taking the chance. I can get rid of the car and move on before it breaks again. If they say the timing chain is slipping because of oil pressure what else could it be?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Well it isn't oil pressure until someone proves it imo. Thus far, even the guys that have opened up the motor and cranked it by hand, have stated that there is oil pressure at the tensioner in these problematic 2.5's and ZERO apparent damage to anything other than what the chain skipping broke.

A new cylinder head will replace all of the stuff I was worried about, and telling you to get OUT of this car for. A bottom end is pretty much bullet proof, even if it hit the valves there will not be any significant damage to the pistons. Did you ask them if the valve reliefs/pistons had any dings or marks on them from the valves hitting? Even if it does, this will NOT affect the motor in any significant way, now or later. Don't worry about the bottom end, it is not where your problem is. If it was, we would be seeing a lot more of these issues. Heck, my old 12v vr6 actually melted/dropped a few valves down into the cylinders. The freaking walls were scored up and a huge mess, the cylinders looked like a freaking HEMI they were so dinged up. Yet somehow when I popped a new cylinder head on it ran fine for another 30k miles until I sold it.

I would call VWoA and ask them to supply an entire new motor one last time. I think it is sad that VW isn't buying back all the motors with this problem to investigate the possible cause. Obviously their technicians do not possess the equipment or skills to determine what is wrong with that motor. They admit this, the tech admits this. When will the engineers from VW look at this problem?! The whole thing needs to be torn down and properly inspected/documented by VW engineers, over and over again, until they have enough data from enough motors to determine the cause of the failure!

The $500 cylinder head isn't a bad price. You are paying less than dropping in a new low mileage motor, less than a chain job, less than a lot of people have paid in your shoes. I think it sucks your chain wasn't fixed the second time it went out. However, what are you going to do? Take them to small claims over $500? You sure as heck can't take them to small claims for a new motor as it would exceed the limit of small claims court. So this leaves you with lawyering up and attempting to go after VW for a new motor. 

Honestly, for all the trouble it would be worth... I think you're better off just letting it go. Pay the $500 and sell the VW. You have 12 months to get rid of it and let me tell you, THESE CARS HOLD THEIR VALUE. My friend just got $14,000 for his 06 GTI a few weeks ago, was 50,000 miles over on his lease the car had like 80k+ miles. Sell it and get a TDI or a GTI, or a fiesta, or that sweet sweet new focus. Just don't get another 05-06 jetta or rabbit. This is actually really good time to sell your car, as 80k is the magic number. Every mile over 80k you go hurts the resale of your vehicle more than any other miles you put on it, up to about 100k where it loses half its value from 80k. If you sell it now, as a result of the $500 cylinder head and chain failures, you're still probably coming out ahead versus selling it a couple years from now. I realize this doesn't help if you're a drive it until the wheels fall off kinda guy but that scenario is no longer really an option anyway.

I will never ever keep a motor that has been split open longer than necessary unless I plan on it becoming a "project car". I'm too old to be stranded on side of road waiting for a tow or my wife. I keep one reliable car (motor not split open) and then my toy cars (will never be reliable again as result of frankenstein, jury rigged, aftermarket parts, etc etc)

If you HAVE to keep this car, its okay. They are replacing the cylinder head. This will resolve any significant damage to the motor and hopefully replace the defect/culprit. There isn't much to the bottom end/lower chains. The upper chain/cylinder head is where the problem pretty much HAS to be.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I just wanted to add. I was looking out for you so I spelled it all out WORST CASE SCENARIO.

If you look at this w/out my cynicism there is a silver lining. If you chain went out at 80k miles w/no history of failure. You would be looking at $2,000 minimum to get things running again. Your warranty did still save you a lot of $$$, even now.


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## dibenej1 (Apr 10, 2003)

bryanp22 said:


> ... I may file some complaints after its fixed with VWOA and the BBB. Anyone else I should contact?


I would call VWoA and make sure they know everything that has happened with the car, especially that it was "fixed" before. Make sure to ask for a case number or incident number. The call to the BBB is probably a waste of time. You can also file a complaint with NHTSA that might help. They say they investigate all complaints, and it could help lead to a recall. There are a few timing chain related complaints already, including mine. I filled out a complaint online, only took a few minutes: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm going to start a petition to VWoA to revisit/consider this chain issue. People need to have extended warranties, TSB's, and compensation for this shameful disgrace in design. It will be posted in the MKV forum to get more views than this 2.5 forum.


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

Well got the car back Saturday with a new cylinder head. I've driven it maybe 40 miles. Was driving home from the paint store and the check engine came on. Stopped by autozone and it gave me an error code for cam position sensor. I guess it's back to the dealership. They had covered 90% of the bill but my part was still $583.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

from now on, you know:

if the cel or the fault comes again, buy a new engine.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

You need to call VWoA and demand a fully remanfacturered motor from VW parts. Tell them you're considering contacting a lawyer. Tell them you feel like the stealership is scamming you with the VW warranty. This is the fourth chain job on this motor. They should not be throwing cylinder heads at the problem. They should be dropping a new motor in and sending you on your way. A new motor dropped in is about $5,000 too. It is 100% beyond me why the dealership was told by VW to rebuild a motor instead of drop a motor in. VW would have been out the same $5,000 either way.

I mean none of this makes sense. Why would VW rather RISK a cylinder head and pay for all the labor associated with putting the new chain and parts on, head on, etc etc the old block. 

When instead they could have just paid the same for the stealership to drop in a new motor and at no risk to them losing another cylinder head.

What am I missing here?


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

They told me a VW expert is coming to take a look at the engine Friday. In the mean time they gave me a 2012 VW jetta as a loaner. Kind of wondering if they are trying to make me consider trading it in with loaner they gave. Not sure if I'd really ever go with a VW again unless they gave me a incredible deal.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

They're giving you the run around. Call them and tell them you want a complete new motor. Explain this issue was not addressed properly under warranty. Explain the history of the same problem over and over, even though the cylinder head was replaced. Tell them you want a complete new motor since that is what SHOULD have been done if they were only capable of temporarily repairing the motor. Ask them why they're willing to send you a cylinder head, pay to have a motor torn down, pay to have it put back together, pay to have a vw engineer come out and look at your motor (they fly them cross country FYI), and yet when the problem STILL persists they want to continue down this path. They are wasting their money and your time. They don't want to give you a new motor because that's one less car they will sell for the next 100,000 miles. Plain and simple.

Tell them it needs to end and you're not going to continue allowing them to "temporarily" fix your motor until the warranty goes away. Tell them you expect your warranty to be upheld, not run around with silly little fixes on your car to save them from paying for their manufacturing defects. What is the expert going to do? He isn't god, he can't do much more than turn a wrench, the motor is just nuts and bolts... You can't fix something this broken that has been running broken for tens of thousands of miles with a wrench.

I don't even like buying cars that have had their motors split open for something as simple as a head gasket. Just splitting the motor open is bad enough, let alone FOUR TIMES in 80k. It is time for them to give you a new motor. They have wrecked your old one. VW techs working on a flat rate don't take their time taking things apart and putting them back together either. Sorry VW but if you wanted to avoid paying for timing chains you should have fixed this problem or shortened the warranty even more than you already did for the MKV.


I used to see MKV sitting on side of road and think, wow that's wierd they broke down. New car, free towing, free maintenance, warranty... wonder what happened. I assumed it was coilpacks but now I wonder how many were chains and cam followers :banghead:

Its true what they say about VW's. They are pieces of unreliable ****e. There's a lot of cars out there that are and these are one of them. If you take the time to learn what to buy and not to buy though, like any car, VW's can be a great car to own. The new ford focus, the NEW one, is pretty awesome. You could try one of those on for size, I know I would if I didn't just buy a MKV a couple years ago. Also, and I'm going to be hanged for saying this, the new hyundai's are pretty much best bang for your $$$ right now. I don't buy VW's the first few years they are out. I've seen too many people struggle with VW's idea of engineering, which is actually trial and error.


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

VW just called. The expert came today and they are replacing my engine with a remanufactured one at no cost to me.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

I'm glad to hear that bro. Congratulations on a new motor. Stealership value on that job is about $7,000 so I'm glad they didn't charge you 10% again. You still out the original $600? Pretty good deal even if so.


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

Yeah still out the $580. Seems like after the three repairs this year they've spent more fixing the car than its worth. I think they are at around $14,000 since July.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah lol at YOUR cost. The dealership pays 0-60% on parts, depending on the part, and zero on labor. Unfortunately VW pays worse for warranty jobs than their standard dealership flat rate too.

They do everything they can to make warranties as painful as possible. VW doesn't sell many cars here so its hard for them to provide good service. Hopefully the new passat w/2.5 that can compete with base model camry and stuff will help increase sales in the US. Right now though, VW has the be one of the worst companies when it comes to customer care/warranty work.

This 2.5 probably doesn't get good enough fuel economy to really "compete" with toyota, ford, or honda though. I think they're stupid for dropping the 2.5 into more cars. Like tons of car manufacturers offer cars as loaded as VW's now too. The whole "VW has more standard features" thing is a dieing trend as well.


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

tchilds said:


> In Indiana if a car has the same problem three times the same way (three timing chain failures) the manufacturer is required to buy the vahicle back from you under lemon laws.
> 
> Nobody knows yet why this is happening. Something happened w/early 2.5 and this is the result. Not one single person has come up with a cause yet so don't let the dealership make you think they know otherwise.
> 
> ...



Is this why VW came out with newer specs for the 2007 2.5 engine? 


I have a 2006 jetta....... i just came upon this thread accidentally!! should i replace my engine? to be on the safe side instead of worrying about a stupid timing belt? 

and will the computer on 2005.5 jetta accept a 2007 + engine? And does a brand new engine really cost 1000????

I thought theyd cost much more than that!! :sly:


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

no, most cars won't have this problem. it is a rare condition that seems to be isolated to 2005-06 2.5 motors. your odds of failure are slim to none even considering the year of your motor.

a used low mileage motor is around a grand. not a reman'd motor, which would be around $5,000. buying a new motor is not something anyone really does. this is what dealerships do under warranty repairs. anyone else would either trade the car in or swap a used motor in. nobody is going to pay the value of their car for a motor, atleast i hope not. if i'm going to lose thousands of dollars for no reason, it better be on a new 2012.


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

tchilds said:


> no, most cars won't have this problem. it is a rare condition that seems to be isolated to 2005-06 2.5 motors. your odds of failure are slim to none even considering the year of your motor.
> 
> a used low mileage motor is around a grand. not a reman'd motor, which would be around $5,000. buying a new motor is not something anyone really does. this is what dealerships do under warranty repairs. anyone else would either trade the car in or swap a used motor in. nobody is going to pay the value of their car for a motor, atleast i hope not. if i'm going to lose thousands of dollars for no reason, it better be on a new 2012.


Well.... in my opinion id drop in a brand new $5000 motor if it breaks..... (hope it doesnt) for several reason:
1) $5000 + selling the car /trading it in would be worth what max 10gs? so thats $15000
vs getting a new car which would be $25000 with the same options.. which youre paying an additional 10gs on a new car

2) the new 2012's suck in my opinion (mk5s were the best jettas ever ) :laugh:, mk6s have the goose neck hinges, no temp monitor, no electric steering no independent suspension, no smiley grill all plastic, and interior plastic is hard...and they had the prob where if you hunked the horn, the engine would shut off...
all those options that i know of you can get only in the GLI...which would be 30gs all said and done

3) dont forget if you paid 20gs for the mkv........ and traded in /sold it for 10-12gs (if youre lucky)... youd still have to pay the extra $10,000 on the new jetta with all the downgrades! so basically you lost a third of the price ($5-$7000) the second you drove it off the lot (opportunity cost) + 10,000 for the new car so instead of paying $5000 for a brand new engine and keeping what you had previously.....(best body + options on mkv)

youd lose $20,000 (opportunity cost+actual ) for a new car $20,000 vs $5,000!!

and finally

4) where would you get a used engine the scrap yards right? chances are the person that crashed the car.......with such low mileage..... not only didnt know how to drive, also didnt care about his/her car.......... which means didnt break it in properly, could've red lined the car 6000rpm , didnt take it for its regular check ups at the dealer...... oil changes etc......... and the fact that if the car was in an accident....... 
something had to give... cuz in the end when you think about it an engine is made of metal parts (head gasket/pistons/ polleys, etc ... all held together by screws).... and depending on the severity of the accident...... things could have came lose/ bent/broke).....

and then have that engine end up in your baby?? i dunno man!!
i guess it depends on your budget and how you feel about cars/ how connected you are to them


If the repairs are gonna cost $6-8gs............ thats when id think about trading the car in for the 2010... mk5 jetta..... theres no way on earth that id pay for the downgraded jetta (mk6)...


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Power to you if you want to pay $25,000 for a VW base model :screwy:

I'll just say, no no no and no. Pretty much all no.

My point was, you're losing about $4000 dropping in a new motor over a used one, for nothing. If I'm going to lose that much money its going to be in depreciation driving a new 2012 off the lot, or to make a TON of power. Its a waste to spend an extra $4,000 for nothing.

Also, wrecked cars are from insurance claims being too high. This is due to air bags, safety equipment, etc etc. Just one airbag is about $2,000 to repair, let alone several. The car will have a salvaged title and be worth 50% of its value too if fixed. There are TONS of perfectly good 2.5 motors out there that are used with low mileage. One guy just bought one recently with 7,000 miles on it for $1,000.

Scrap yards also offer warranties on motors btw. Granted its not 12,000 miles 1 year like a "new" motor from vw but its enough to keep you out of deep ****.


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## vwjetta252006 (Jul 31, 2009)

tchilds said:


> Power to you if you want to pay $25,000 for a VW base model :screwy:
> 
> I'll just say, no no no and no. Pretty much all no.
> 
> ...


lol i said i wouldnt spend a dime...... on the new 2012 jettas..

if worst comes to worst... 2010. 

also i agree about insurance not wanting to fix them.... but still frigg.... aahaha heck if i come across a good engine... that i know is worth it.. ill buy it.. 

buying the awe exhaust and carbonio air intake costs that much... (275+700) ... lol so a good barely used engine if i come across im buying just in case!


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

Yeah I have three 16v long blocks for my track car and several extra trans-axles in various orders of disrepair. It is always a good idea to stock up on a motor that you drive the piss out of, especially if you find one locally for cheap.

If I were doing a motor swap, it would be a 2.8 24v into the rabbit and the rabbits 2.5 into my MK2 and my 16v into someone else's car which would pay in full for the 24v w/02m.

I would be out nothing, improving every single vehicle I own, and have enough projects to last me the next two winters.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Every engine when turned off will, at one time or another, rotate backward a few degrees. The piston or pistons reach the top of the compression stroke and can't make it up, so they come down and it goes back a bit. This is normal and doesn't cause harm.... except on 2.5 vw engines. Why? The chain tensioner (not cam adjuster) doesn't have a lock. So the moment oil pressure drops when the engine is off, and the engine happens to rotate in reverse a few degrees, the chain compresses the tensioner and if it rotates a bit more it will jump time. Notice all these engines have ADVANCED camshaft timing? When chains stretch they RETARD timing. When they jump, they advance. 

They can't engineer a simple chain tensioner...... newbies.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

prove it? the revised tensioner looks the same and doesn't have a "lock", yet none of those motors have skipped.

Also, your motor has oil pressure when it is shutting down... as everything is pumped up when its running. Its not like your oil pressure is a light bulb with an on off switch. newby

Do you even know what the tensioner looks like? What rotation are you talking about? The oil has to bleed down out of a tiny "pisser" hole, its not instantly dropping...


Just agree that nobody knows why this is happening and don't just post arbitrary comments about why it is. If you have proof then please enlighten us all as we could really use the help on this issue. So far only evidence we have is the chain stretches after this happens. If I had to say it is anything, its the chain stretch. But what is causing this? Obviously if the chain stretches its going to skip a tooth. I don't know why VW would make the tolerances so tight on the chain that the tensioner can't pick up the slack but its not because there's no "lock".


edit: I just realized you're talking about the crank rotating not the tensioner. my bad.


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## bryanp22 (Jun 27, 2005)

Got a call saying engine is done. I had them look into a vibration noise I had been hearing around 65mph. I guess the transmission is making the noise. They said at some point it will need a remanufactured transmission. I guess my car is just a lemon.


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