# Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise



## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

The topic of timing chain noise and the fear of chain breakage comes up frequently enough that I thought it would be valuable to post a sound clip of my timing chain noise. The clip starts out with a hold at 1200 RPMs (with a short blip to 1500RPM), then a slow rev up to 2500RPMs and back down to idle, then a quick rev to 1500RPMs and back down to idle and finally, another hold at 1200RPMs. The timing chain noise (i.e., chain slap) is audible in the 1200RPM holds (it's almost rhythmic at times), but disappears as the revs go above that.
FYI, the engine is in a '99.5 Jetta (MKIV) and has 145k miles on it. Everything on the engine is original except for the MAF (replaced 15k miles ago) and intake manifold shifter rod (replaced 10k miles ago). The noise has been present for at least the last 40k miles and doesn't seem to have gotten any worse. The clip was recorded using a Mini DV digital camcorder sitting directly below the tranny bell housing.
*Click here to hear timing chain noise! (1.4Mb)*

*UPDATE (1/5/04) ...................*
A bunch of us replaced my timing chains this weekend (1/3/04 and 1/4/04 - 147.5k miles on the original parts) since I couldn't stand the rattling noise anymore and didn't want to risk destroying the engine any more than I already had. Well, we found out what was rattling. The upper guide rail was snapped in half and a 1"x2" piece from the middle of it had slid down and wedged itself between the upper chain, the inner intermediate sprocket and the block. The piece rattled whenever the engine was running at it's harmonic frequency, which appears to be somewhere between 1000 and 1200 RPMs.
I'll post pics as soon as the whole job is complete - we still need to put the tranny back in and reassemble the engine bay.
Based on my noise and what we found, I'm confident when I say that if you hear a rattle then some part of the timing chain setup is either loose or broken. That being said, I wouldn't ignore timing chain noise too long as it means that there is the POTENTIAL for something bad to happen. Not that it definitely will, just that it might. I'm sure I could have driven for quite a while longer with the guide rail chunk rattling behind the intermediate sprocket, but I'm glad that the broken piece is out of there and I know that it can't cause a problem in the future.

*UPDATE (1/8/04) ...................*
The new timing chains are finally in and the car is completely back together. It started up without a hitch the first time and is COMPLETELY SILENT. Not one hint of timing chain noise!!!
I'll be posting a sound clip of the new chains for comparison with the clip of the chain (actually upper guide) rattle as soon as I can get my hands on my dad's mini DV cam.

*UPDATE (2/28/04) ...................*
I finally posted the DIY for replacing timing chain parts. Here is the link ...
*Replacing timing chains, tensioners and guides on a 12v VR6*

I also posted pics of the old and new timing chain parts to illustrate how much wear occurred in 150k miles. You can find the pics in the following thread ... 
*Comparison of new and old/worn/failed timing chain parts*

*UPDATE (8/20/06) ...................*
Here's an even better video clip of bad timing chain noise - http://www.agthompsonfamily.co...2.wmv. Thanks dankvwguy!
























_Modified by VgRt6 at 12:51 PM 8-20-2006_


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## BlindingWhiteGLI (Aug 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Finally, I know what to listen for/dread.
Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## myvr6gti (Sep 5, 2003)

hold on a sec...my 93 rado motor makes the same sound and i have never been able to figure out what it was. 
now that i have heard that is sounds like my problem...it makes the noise till i get to about 3000 RPM's.. 
then it goes away...how did you fix it?


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## vr6golf.com (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: (myvr6gti)*

you take your trans out and replace these parts:
http://www.vr6golf.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=81


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## corpsedub (Aug 3, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

nice job on the sound byte. sucks that it's happnening though. sometimes i wigout and think my chains are rattleing like that..but then i disconnect the intake ****er rod and the sound dissapears(cause that thing clanks around). they sound pretty loose there. thought about taking the plunge and getting it taken care of?
edit:with 111,000 on mine im fearing that one morning im gonna fire her up and..clanalangalang it will go.











_Modified by corpsedub at 1:45 PM 11-26-2003_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (corpsedub)*

Yes and no. The car has 145k miles on it so I know it will have to be done fairly soon. It's been making the noise for at least the last 40k miles though and hasn't gotten any worse, so I don't think it's urgent. I plan on replacing everything when my clutch finally gives up. Unfortuntely, it seems like it will never die. I guess I'll just have to wait.


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## Ed52 (May 21, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Thanks for the valuable info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DasoGTI (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Ed52)*

mk4? sounds more like your intake shifter rod than your chain, but I might be mistaken.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DasoGTI)*

It's definitely not the intake shifter rod. I replaced that recently. Anyway, it usually rattles at higher RPMs, like between 2500 and 4000. The chain noise in the clip is loudest just below the bell housing, right near where the lower chain is. I'm 99.9% that's it's at least one of the chains, probably the lower one.


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## DasoGTI (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_It's definitely not the intake shifter rod. I replaced that recently. Anyway, it usually rattles at higher RPMs, like between 2500 and 4000. The chain noise in the clip is loudest just below the bell housing, right near where the lower chain is. I'm 99.9% that's it's at least one of the chains, probably the lower one.

Cool! I have that exact same sound. I always thought it was my shifter rod again. I'll verify where my sound comes from in the engine bay. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DasoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DasoGTI* »_
Cool! I have that exact same sound. I always thought it was my shifter rod again. I'll verify where my sound comes from in the engine bay. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I don't know if I'd be happy that it's not the shifter rod. Replacing the shifter rod or even replacing the upper intake manifold and shifter rod is cheaper and/or less work than replacing chains.
EDIT: Even though I'm virtually certain it's not the shifter rod, I'll double check tomorrow. I need to change my oil filter, so the hood will already be up.










_Modified by VgRt6 at 5:47 PM 11-26-2003_


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## skyliner77 (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

too cool! thanks for posting that. bet we see *alot* of links to that in the future! Makes me glad mine were done at 102,XXX, and my motor sounds _nothing_ like that. always wondered though cause as you know the vr is a noisy motor


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## DasoGTI (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_
I don't know if I'd be happy that it's not the shifter rod. Replacing the shifter rod or even replacing the upper intake manifold and shifter rod is cheaper and/or less work than replacing chains.

well, I highly doubt my chains are up for change... my engine's only got 52 000 KM, meaning 32 000 miles about.... Regular oil changes with synthetic oil...


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DasoGTI)*

I agree. Yours should be fine at that mileage.


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## T99inFL (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

VgRT6:
Just curious, what type of engine oil have you used in this car since birth & what was the mileage interval between changes? 
I hope this is not what I must expect when I get to 140k.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (T99inFL)*

I used dino up to 100k, either 5w-30 or whatever the dealer put in it. Since then I've used synthetic, Mobil 1 0w-40. Oil and filter changes were done every 10k miles.
While my timing chain noise may sound bad, I believe it's normal for a high mileage VR. It's inevitable even with regular, frequent synthetic oil changes. Also, it doesn't necessarily mean that there's DEFINITELY a problem, just that there is POTENTIALLY a problem. Honestly, while I've spent some time thinking about the chain noise, I'm not that concerned about an imminent failure. There are VR6s that have gone well past my mileage with noise for over 100k of it. It's not a bad idea to replace them if the chance arises (like when a clutch goes), but if it were something that had a high probability of failure, I'm sure VW would have recommended a mileage for replacing them. 
One more thing, even though the chain noise is audible in the clip, I don't hear it unless the windows are down and the car is up against a wall, like at a drive-thru. With the windows up, all I hear is the sweet sound of the VR.


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Thing is, if the tensioners ever fail (folks seem to like to let em wear all the way through )
and it takes out your chain, then you *will* have a major problem, in the form of 
piston to valve contact. My thought is that you shouldn't be hearing
chain slap at all, because the VR6 does have a chain tensioner. 
Thanks for the recording. That is useful. 
ian


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Daemon42)*

I know about the VR6 being an interference engine. I guess I'm willing to take the chance for a while longer.
I find it interesting that the chain noise only occurs in the narrow RPM range that it does. The tensioners should be keeping the chain tight, but dont seem to be doing a good job in the 1000-1200 RPM range. I wonder if this is due to the design of the VR6 or the chain system. Maybe there's not enough oil pressure to keep the upper tensioner tight when the RPMS are low. It's hard to tell in the clip, but at higher RPMs the chain noise is not just covered up by the louder engine noise, it actually seems to be gone. I'd be more worried than I am if the noise was presnt over a wider RPM range, especially one that the engine spendsa lot of time in. It spends very little time in the 1000-1200 RPM range. With my bad luck, the chain will probably snap or jump while the engine is revving through this range.
My guess is that I won't wait that mucch longer before doing the chains. When I finally do, I'm going to post pics of the setup to show how worn a setup this noisy really is. If I'm feeling ambitious, I may also put some sort or DIY post or video together for doing the chain job.


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## T99inFL (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

VgRt6:
Thanks. I've been using dino since new, but I change every 5k. I know the recommended interval is 10k but I felt uncomfortable with the length and opted for 5k intervals. 
I recall that recently ROCKnRLR's timing chain took out his crankshaft ring gear and he had the motor replaced at 69k. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1038270
It will be interesting to see how my motor holds up with 55k and counting.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (T99inFL)*

I remember reading about Jose's mishap. I think his situation is not the norm - 69k miles seems awfully early for the chain to break if it's flaw-free. VW's belts last longer than that - their chains certainly should.
I'm sure your motor will be fine. IM f1forkvr6 if you want some more positive feedback about timing chain noise. He's got over 200k miles on his Passat VR6 and has had chain noise for at least half of the miles.
It's interesting that despite the large number of people who say they have chain noise, I'm only aware of TWO people who've had their chains snap. One is Jose and I think there were extenuating circumstances with his failure. The other is 88GTiVR6. His failed at around 80k miles and bent three valves (http://bellsouthpwp.net/a/r/ar...n.htm). His mileage also seems low for a failure.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (T99inFL)*

Here's the link for a thread I started back in May asking how many miles people currently had on their chains or how many they had when they were replaced. There are some interesting responses (including someone with 250k on their original setup!







)
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=849574


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## James 93SLC (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Perfect Gary!!
That is an awesome capture of the noise. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (James 93SLC)*

Thanks. Now fix my car for me.


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## T99inFL (Aug 4, 1999)

I have been looking through whatever timing chain posts that I see. My conclusion is that the tensioner used in the mark IV is not prone to the wear which plagued prior models.


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## vr6golf.com (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (T99inFL)*

Its not the tentioner that fails in these engines, the guides get worn excessively and the tentioner ends up fully extended trying to make up for the tracks the chains are making in the guides.
The A4's have the same issue, just doesn't seem to happen as often.
you can use all the A4 parts in your A3-B4 as well if that eases your mind.
You just need to make sure you swap out the cam & intermediate gears at the same time.
All in all, a 5-600 dollar repair is to be expected after 100-150 KMI!
Most cars are ready for the crusher by then from other manufacturers.
Good informational post. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I posted a link to all the PN's and illustration earlier...
And if you hear chains slapping, you shouldn't ignore it.
Once the chains wear through the composite plastic on the guide, they then start wearing away at the metal backer and fill your oil and with filings that get embedded in your bearing halves.
If they are noisy, the repair bill for putting it off is much more than taking care of your car today.
The valves & guides for parts alone in a VR6 nearly meet the cost of the entire timing chain job...
If you happen to crack a piston, then you can basically junk the motor and buy a crate engine.
My point is, just because its been running like that for 30k doesn't mean you aren't destroying it every time you run it.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by vr6golf.com at 8:43 AM 11-27-2003_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (vr6golf.com)*

Every time I read or post something in this thread, I get a little more worried about my chains. Damn, why did I start this thing!






















Just kidding - it's good to discuss this topic. I'll probably end up doing it sooner than later, if only for peace of mind. Maybe we'll have another big storm here this winter and my car will be snowed in for days. That would give me plenty of time to do the repair.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 1:26 PM 11-27-2003_


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## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

I think i might have this also. Although my car only has 30K








I have that sound, or close to it around 1200rpms. Also at 1200 rpms i have a pretty hard shaking coming from the front of the car. Both of these happen in gear and in neutral







. Now to comlicate things more i'm going to get a GIAC chip installed on tuesday -- would this totally void my warranty? or would they even be able to detect it and how do i go about talking to the dealer about noisy timing chains, and warraty repair without getting ripped off with diagnostic fees?


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## vr6golf.com (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DrTacoElf)*

The dealer can physically inspect & detect the GIAC on A4 chassis, the ECU has to come apart for neuspeed at least, and I assume GIAC too.
If you want my advice, never add a mod to a vehicle thats not running right, Its just an ill idea.
Fix the car first, get it running properly and then add your modifications...
Respect your ride.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DrTacoElf)*

I have the same engine shake/shudder around 1000-1200 RPMs. More than likely every VR6 has the same thing.
I find it interesting that the shake occurs at virtually the same RPMs as the chain noise. Coincidence? Or does the shake contribute to the chain making noise? Very, very interesting.


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## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (vr6golf.com)*

yeah i never thought that i had timing chain problems until i read this thread and it matched the strange noise/shaking i have








For the chip what if get the following done?
If you wish to
have a stock chip module assemnled(allows stock
software to be plugged back in for dealer
service,warranty etc...)that is an additional
$50.
Would that be undetectable?


_Modified by DrTacoElf at 6:34 PM 11-27-2003_


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## vr6golf.com (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DrTacoElf)*

On another note, try depressing the clutch... If your unknown noise goes away, its a TB and not to worry.. the ratlee bit sometimes.


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## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (vr6golf.com)*

TB?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DrTacoElf)*

Throwout bearing. If the noise goes away when you push the clutch in, then it's the bearing and not your chains.
I wish this were the case with my car. Mine make the noise with the clutch in and out.


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## fordhack (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

my chains were making that noise and then my lower timing chain broke. I found the guide rails in about 9000000 pieces in the oil pan. do not let the noise go unchecked. you will regret it if a chain goes.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (fordhack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fordhack* »_my chains were making that noise and then my lower timing chain broke. I found the guide rails in about 9000000 pieces in the oil pan. do not let the noise go unchecked. you will regret it if a chain goes. 

Thanks for ruining my Thanksgiving holiday. J/K.







I know it's serious. I'm going to see if I can scrape some $$$ together and reserve James' time (expect an email) and see if I can get this taken care of. Stupid timing chains. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## GTIStile (Feb 22, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for very useful information. i know i hear about this noise all the time and would not know exactly what to listen for. good post


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (GTIStile)*

Bump. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## splitmeister (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (GTIStile)*

Unfortunately, the noise isnt something that necessarily means the chains are ready to go. 
Later model motors switched to all plastic guides. The earlier motors, which had the metal guides with plastic linings made way for the all plastic one starting with the 96.5 motors. For some reason, it seem the plastic guides and single roller chain amplifies the chain slap noise. Ive heard this noise on nearly new cars, and theyve made it way past 100K miles still making the exact same noise. Replacing these parts seems to make the noise subside, but not for more than 10k miles. 
If you have an earlier double roller motor, id worry more about hearing the noise for more than a couple of minutes after startup. if you have the later single roller, the noise does not seem as indicative of failing components as it once did, a good and bad thing. 
The more common failures nowadays seem to be the front upper chain guide failing (it is plastic, and is now more likely to fail due to age than mileage, seeing as there are a quite a few VR6 motors hitting their 10th birthdays), or the liner separating from the rear upper tensioner, a chronic problem of higher mileage early motor cars.
The only thing to check for on the single roller motors is excessive scoring on the rear upper tensioner. Besides that, there is not much to go on.
I guess the best plan is to say check your chains and guides yearly after you hit the 100k mark on the later motors.


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

I record my engine so maybe someone can host for me?
I don't hear chain noise but I have different,rythmic,rubbing sound near valve cover.


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## snuffyboy3 (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

ohh man...hearing that killed me...and scares me...my car is kinda makin that sound...but my motor has been abused...not only by me but by others who didnt know how to drive her







...but its all good...shes been through a lot http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (splitmeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitmeister* »_Unfortunately, the noise isnt something that necessarily means the chains are ready to go. 
Later model motors switched to all plastic guides. The earlier motors, which had the metal guides with plastic linings made way for the all plastic one starting with the 96.5 motors. For some reason, it seem the plastic guides and single roller chain amplifies the chain slap noise. Ive heard this noise on nearly new cars, and theyve made it way past 100K miles still making the exact same noise. Replacing these parts seems to make the noise subside, but not for more than 10k miles. 
If you have an earlier double roller motor, id worry more about hearing the noise for more than a couple of minutes after startup. if you have the later single roller, the noise does not seem as indicative of failing components as it once did, a good and bad thing. 
The more common failures nowadays seem to be the front upper chain guide failing (it is plastic, and is now more likely to fail due to age than mileage, seeing as there are a quite a few VR6 motors hitting their 10th birthdays), or the liner separating from the rear upper tensioner, a chronic problem of higher mileage early motor cars.
The only thing to check for on the single roller motors is excessive scoring on the rear upper tensioner. Besides that, there is not much to go on.
I guess the best plan is to say check your chains and guides yearly after you hit the 100k mark on the later motors. 


Thanks for the great info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (snuffyboy3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snuffyboy3* »_ohh man...hearing that killed me...and scares me...my car is kinda makin that sound...but my motor has been abused...not only by me but by others who didnt know how to drive her







...but its all good...shes been through a lot http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









My car has only been drive by me (other than about 500 miles that my wife has driven it - she knows how to drive a manual well though) and has been babied for the most part. My wife complains that it gets more attention than her sometimes. I guess it doesn't necessariyl depend on how well the car is treated - chain wear should be a surprise with close to 150k miles of driving.


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## O_loung1 (Feb 13, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

ive been following this great thread and trying to separate:
the throw out bearings,
the noisy valves,
the timing chain.
i know i can hear all three, i can seperate the throw out bearings inside the cabin,
the valves and timing are harder. the valves are higher pitched clicking and the
timing chain is the lower pitched scrub-scrub-scrub sound, and some throw-out 
bearing knocks gets thrown in there unless someones on the clutch. right?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (O_loung1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *O_loung1* »_ive been following this great thread and trying to separate:
the throw out bearings,
the noisy valves,
the timing chain.
i know i can hear all three, i can seperate the throw out bearings inside the cabin,
the valves and timing are harder. the valves are higher pitched clicking and the
timing chain is the lower pitched scrub-scrub-scrub sound, and some throw-out 
bearing knocks gets thrown in there unless someones on the clutch. right?

That sounds about right. I discern between valve and chain noise by where it's coming from. The valve noise in on the top of the engine and the timing chain is on the extreme driver's side of the engine, both high and low (depending on which chain is making noise). I think it's my lower chain that's making the noise in the clip.
_Edited for a stupid and critical error._













_Modified by VgRt6 at 8:10 AM 1-8-2004_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Bump to keep it current. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## missamo80 (Nov 23, 2003)

As VgRt6 knows from the thread I started over in the MKIV forum, one of the rails on my Jetta is broken. On Tuesday it goes into the dealer for inspection to see if the warranty will cover it. I'll tell them not to do any work until Wed, when I can make it up to the dealer and snap some pics for everyone of what the mess looks like.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (missamo80)*

Thanks.







The pics should be very helpful.


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## Dreek (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

I've been hearing that exact noise for some time now. That clip scares the piss outa me especially cos my car is just now approaching 80k on the clock. So after some inspection if indeed they need to be changed, this summer I will be doing it myself. I'm a pretty competent mechanic and have most all of the tools including an impact wrench. I'm hoping that I can take a lot of pictures and put together a full walkthrough. I'm also planning camshafts and some other head work.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (Dreek)*

I'll be doing the timing chain job in the next month or two and will be putting together a DIY. Hopefully you'll find it useful.


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## vr6golf.com (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: (Dreek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dreek* »_I've been hearing that exact noise for some time now. That clip scares the piss outa me especially cos my car is just now approaching 80k on the clock. So after some inspection if indeed they need to be changed, this summer I will be doing it myself. I'm a pretty competent mechanic and have most all of the tools including an impact wrench. I'm hoping that I can take a lot of pictures and put together a full walkthrough. I'm also planning camshafts and some other head work. 

Please dont break out the impact for this job.....


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## Dreek (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (vr6golf.com)*

The impact wrench is solely for busting loose bolts not putting them together if thats what you mean. It comes in handy for that sort of thing.


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## vr6golf.com (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: (Dreek)*

thanks....
now i know why all my bolts are stripped and broken off...
It was a joke dude.


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## BlindingWhiteGLI (Aug 8, 2002)

*Re: (vr6golf.com)*

Guess I'll have to do them this summer. Not putting many miles on her, last oil change was about 4k kms ago, in early September. It's got about 157k kms on it, so about 100k miles. It will probably be the most in depth work I will ever do on her.


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## Dreek (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (vr6golf.com)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6golf.com* »_thanks....
now i know why all my bolts are stripped and broken off...
It was a joke dude.


Yeah, I did'nt think you were being a jerk. I've got some good stories about shops using an impact wrench to do work on my friend's mkiv jetta. Like when they spun on his drain plug with the impact wrench. It was in with at least 80ft/lbs.


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## Mooz! (Dec 30, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*









I almost wish I didn't listen to that video.
Same type of sounds, prevelant in the same RPMS (except mine doesnt make any noise whatsoever above 2500RPMS), just not as loud.
F*ck sakes.


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Mooz!)*

My alternator bearings have been going bad over the last week or so (whirring, grinding, clattering.. etc)
and it took a while to pinpoint it as it doesn't do it all the time, or any consistent rpms.
Anyway, I spent a bunch of time listening to all different things under the hood in the last
couple days with a stethescope , and I'm pretty sure I'm actually hearing the same chain slapping 
sound between 1200-2200 rpms or so, above which it gets quiet. It's not something I've ever noticed 
before now, and it's not very noisy at all. I've also noticed a little periodic shudder inside the car if
I just try to hold the rpms at about 1500, which I think coincides with it. I think it's always done that.
I'm at about 70k miles, so I have a hard timebelieving that the tensioner is really gone. 
I've been running full synthetic oil since about 15k miles. I'm not going to worry about it until
I'm forced to do a clutch change around 100k, assuming I still own the car. 
ian


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Daemon42)*

I'm anxious to find out if anything is actually worn or broken when I open my engine up. We're going to do a thorough documentation of the condition of all the parts - guide/tensioner wear, chain stretch, etc. Hopefully we'll be able to figure out if the noise is really due to something being wrong or of it's normal and something we just have to live with.








That's the next project. Right now I have to get my water pump replaced. We're going to tackle it in the morning. Hopefully it will go smoothly.


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## Daemon42 (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

I wrote up a detailed how-to on the coolant pump replacement proceedure a couple
years ago.
http://www.gti-vr6.net/library....html
One modification to that procedure.. no need to disconnect the exhaust downpipe (that was from Bentley).
Just remove from mount bolt, and loosen both rear mount bolts (I can't
stress enough how much easier it is with a couple long extensions on top of each other
for dealing with those rear mounts). Lift the front of the engine gradually and eventually
you'll clear the 3 bolts on the pump pulley, and then the bolts for the pump itself. 
I've been through 3 pulleys and 2 pumps (messed up supercharger tensioner can do that)
so I can probably replace a pump in under 45 minutes now.
 ian


----------



## lamune (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

You know, my car is a 98 model. It's made that same exact noise since it was new. I'm approaching 80kmi now and I'm not sure if I should be worried or not about it. Of course, the dealer said "they all sound like that" and I didn't believe them, but maybe its true!
My inclination would be to change the guides when I'm doing the clutch anyway. My guess is that if it's made this noise since being new that its probably not serious. It has always annoyed me though, to be honest. I get the feeling though that even if you did change the guides, the noise would probably come back.
By the way, I don't know if this also may be related, but my car has always had a rough crappy idle that's not ignition related. I heard a report from another VR6 owner that the problem was too high an oil pressure that made the valve lifters open too much. Since the timing chain tensioner is also oil pressure sensitive, the noise and premature wear may be related. One of these days I'm going to have to get around to checking the oil pressure and see if its above spec.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Daemon42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daemon42* »_I wrote up a detailed how-to on the coolant pump replacement proceedure a couple
years ago.
http://www.gti-vr6.net/library....html
One modification to that procedure.. no need to disconnect the exhaust downpipe (that was from Bentley).
Just remove from mount bolt, and loosen both rear mount bolts (I can't
stress enough how much easier it is with a couple long extensions on top of each other
for dealing with those rear mounts). Lift the front of the engine gradually and eventually
you'll clear the 3 bolts on the pump pulley, and then the bolts for the pump itself. 
I've been through 3 pulleys and 2 pumps (messed up supercharger tensioner can do that)
so I can probably replace a pump in under 45 minutes now.
ian

Thanks for the link. I've actually read your write-up a couple of times in the past and skimmed through it again the other day in preparation for today's job. The MKIV setup is slightly different than on your MKIII. We have two side motor/tranny mounts and then a lower, rear pendulum mount. It's significantly easier to undo the mounts on the MKIV. The passengers's side mount is virtually unobstructed (have to move a coolant hose or two out of the way), the pendulum mount is completely accessible from below, and the driver's side tranny mount only requires that you remove the airbox. We disconnected the passenger's side engine mount and rear pendulum mount and then just loosened the bolts on the driver's side tranny mount. We raised the engine two inches and pushed it over about an inch towards the driver side. This gives plenty of room to get the bolts and the pump out. It took us 4.5 hours to do, including a lunch and beer break and a bunch of time figuring out what needed to be disconnected and removed. I'm sure it will go significantly faster next time (hopefully there won't be a next time).
I took pics of the job and will be putting together a DIY for MKIV VR6 owners. It should be up in a few days.


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## DrTacoElf (Jul 14, 2003)

Hmm maybe this noise is normal -- that would be a very good thing. Considering i have it from 1100 to like 1700rpms along with a shaking in this area


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (DrTacoElf)*

I hope for everyone's sake that it is. I'm going to change mine in the next month or two anyway ... just to be safe. I'll post the condition of the chains and guides that make the noise in the clip. If they appear to be in good shape, then that's a good sign that it's not something to worry about. If they're not in good shapen, then it's a whole different story.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Daemon42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daemon42* »_... and I'm pretty sure I'm actually hearing the same chain slapping 
sound between 1200-2200 rpms or so, above which it gets quiet. It's not something I've ever noticed 
before now, and it's not very noisy at all.

I've had the same low volume level noises for well over 100k miles now. My engine has 226k miles, has had synthetic oil changes every 5k since I purchased it with 91k miles. I'm also waiting until it's clutch time, and personally I'm really not that worried about it.
*VgRt6* -- looking forward to your pics when you do this job. Thanks for taking the time to do this. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

*UPDATE ...................*
A bunch of us replaced my timing chains this weekend (1/3/04 and 1/4/04) since I couldn't stand the rattling noise anymore and didn't want to risk destroying the engine any more than I already had. Well, we found out what was rattling. The upper guide rail was snapped in half and a 1"x2" piece from the middle of it had slid down and wedged itself between the upper chain, the inner intermediate sprocket and the block. The piece rattled whenever the engine was running at its harmonic frequency, which appears to be somewhere between 1000 and 1200 RPMs.
I'll post pics as soon as the whole job is complete - we still need to put the tranny back in and reassemble the engine bay.
Based on my noise and what we found, I'm confident when I say that if you hear a rattle then some part of the timing chain setup is either loose or broken. That being said, I wouldn't ignore timing chain noise too long as it means that there is the POTENTIAL for something bad to happen. Not that it definitely will, just that it might. I'm sure I could have driven for quite a while longer with the guide rail chunk rattling behind the intermediate sprocket, but I'm glad that the broken piece is out of there and I know that it can't cause a problem in the future.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 9:57 AM 1-5-2004_


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## missamo80 (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

I'm sorry I'm on the other side of the country, I would have loved to help out







Glad things went well and that there wasn't anything major broken... sounds like it could have been much worse. Can't wait to see the pics of the complete dissassembly.
Make sure you seal everything up well *grin*.
Neil


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (missamo80)*


_Quote, originally posted by *missamo80* »_I'm sorry I'm on the other side of the country, I would have loved to help out








Glad things went well and that there wasn't anything major broken... sounds like it could have been much worse. Can't wait to see the pics of the complete dissassembly.
Make sure you seal everything up well *grin*.
Neil

Too bad you weren't in the area. The last two days have been a blast. The job has taken us a lot longer than it needed to be, but we were having a good time and were anal (mostly me since it's my car) about virtually everything. It also took quite a bit of time to take photos and notes for the DIY. I have about 175 pictures of the job. The DIY is going to be huge!
Don't worry. We made sure that the rear main seal was installed correctly. We were very, very careful while installing it in the lower timing chain cover and while slipping it over the crank flange. Hopefully we'll have better luck than whoever worked on your car ... the first time that is.


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## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

at what mileage should the chains be replaced?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (vwgroundzero)*

There is no mileage recommended by VW as they're supposed to be lifetime items. Unfortunately, the guide and tensioners fail and they need to be changed. People with the old-design upper tensioner seem to change theirs around 100k. The newer design should be good for at least that, maybe up to 150-200k. Those ar just general guidelines though. If you have excessive chain noise prior to these mileages, you should replace the chains sooner. If your chains are still quiet at these mileages, then you can probably wait until they become noisy.


_Modified by VgRt6 at 8:17 PM 1-5-2004_


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

can't wait to see pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
if I get chain noise I will sell or trade in my car 
I am not able to fix it by myself and I don't want to pay over 1000$ to repair old car.


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## missamo80 (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Fantomasz)*

Fanto, with the 2000 Jetta you should have the 10/100,000 warranty on the powertrain like I did on my 99.5. If you hear the noise before then, make sure you have all your oil change records, then get VW to fix it for you!
Neil


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (missamo80)*

I know and I want to keep my car at least for 100k miles.
I change oil only at dealer.


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## momoVR6 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_
I discern between valve and chain noise by where it's coming from. The valve noise in on the top of the engine and the timing chain is on the extreme passenger's side of the engine, both high and low (depending on which chain is making noise). I think it's my lower chain that's making the noise in the clip.

So are you saying that the chain noise is comming from the passenger side even though the chain is on the drivers side? Or is that just a typo?
BTW looking forward to the full right-up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (momoVR6)*

Oops. That's just a typo. I can't even believe I wrote that!
The chains are on the driver's side and the serpentine belt (and tensioner) is on the passenger's side.
Thanks for point that out. I'm going to correct it in my original post.


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (corpsedub)*

good job on the clip


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VR6 Mole)*

The new timing chains are finally in and the car is completely back together. It started up without a hitch the first time and is COMPLETELY SILENT. Not one hint of timing chain noise!!!
I'll be posting a sound clip of the new chains for comparison with the clip of the chain (actually upper guide) rattle as soon as I can get my hands on my dad's mini DV cam.


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## James 93SLC (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Hey Gary
I found this extra bolt in my pocket when I went to throw my work jeans in the laundry.
Not sure were it went, but it looks kinda important.








Should we tear her back apart this weekend and see were it goes?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (James 93SLC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *James 93SLC* »_Hey Gary
I found this extra bolt in my pocket when I went to throw my work jeans in the laundry.
Not sure were it went, but it looks kinda important.








Should we tear her back apart this weekend and see were it goes?









Haha. Good one James.
I have to admit that I did scour the workbench to see if we missed something. Luckily I didn't find anything!










_Modified by VgRt6 at 12:43 AM 1-9-2004_


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## BLUE NRG (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

oh dear god, that sound made me cringe, how can people continue driving when you hear that???


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## markduran (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

What else can produce a metallic sound when the engine is idling, beside the chains? Could it be a piston or the serpentine belt or something else ? 


_Modified by markduran at 1:34 PM 1-17-2004_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (markduran)*

A bunch of things. It depends on where the sound is coming from. Timing chains would be on the driver's side of the engine, bad bearing in one of the serpentine belt pulleys would be on the passenger's side and lifters would be on top of the engine.
I can stop by and listen to the engine if you want me to. I'm only about 5-10 minutes away. When I first noticed my "noise" (turned out to be the timing chains), I had a local friend listen to it since he knew what to listen for.
Let me know. I'm pretty much free whenever.


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## GL95x (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

now i know what sounds to look for when they get really bad, i was worried about my mild noise, that's just insane slap
Steve


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## DasoGTI (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (GL95x)*

I had the exact same amount of noise as Gary did, sounded the same. So I just did my chains as well. No more chain noise! woohoo! The engine is so much smoother. I took pics of my tensioners. The chains where about 3/16-15/64 longer than the new ones. Guess that was enough to cause this.
Now if I could only get ride of the vibration... grrr (see my other thread)
























The bottoms guide was in 4 pieces, which is odd....










_Modified by DasoGTI at 3:03 PM 1-17-2004_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DasoGTI)*

My timing chain parts had a similar amount of wear even at nearly 150k miles. The newer-design upper tensioner definitely wears a lot slower than the older-design tensioner. My chains had stretched very little if at all.
I'll post my pics as soon as digitalpose.com is up and running again or I hook up with another image host.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (GL95x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GL95x* »_now i know what sounds to look for when they get really bad, i was worried about my mild noise, that's just insane slap
Steve

My noise wasn't chain slap, it was a broken piece of the upper guide rubbing against the chain and intermediate sprocket.
If you hear actual "chain slap" then I'd be worried. The chains should be VERY tight. If not, then something is definitely wrong. Even with my broken guide and resulting rattling noise, the chains were still fully tight.


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## DasoGTI (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_
I'll post my pics as soon as digitalpose.com is up and running again or I hook up with another image host.

Imagestation Gary... that's what I'm using with mine. It's hardly ever down.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (DasoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DasoGTI* »_
Imagestation Gary... that's what I'm using with mine. It's hardly ever down.

I've had an account with Imagestation for over a year, but don't want to use them since they have a 450x300 image size limit. That's too small for my DIY pics.


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## albeevr6 (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Just found this post I have had that sound for some time its not as bad as the sound clip though nowhere near. I guess it must be fixed soon.


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## vrslixx (May 25, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

what about 82k? am i due


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (vrslixx)*

Not necessarily. That's why I posted the sound clip. If you have a similar rattle, then it is probably time. If not, then your setup probably still has some life left in it.
Since you have the older setup, it's not a bad idea to remove the intake manifold and valve cover to check out the condition of the upper tensioner rail. This is the part that's known to wear prematurely on the older setup. It's not urgent to do it now, but I recommend doing it as you get closer to 100k miles. It only takes a few hours to do.


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## MigAce312 (Nov 22, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VgRt6* »_My timing chain parts had a similar amount of wear even at nearly 150k miles. The newer-design upper tensioner definitely wears a lot slower than the older-design tensioner. My chains had stretched very little if at all.
I'll post my pics as soon as digitalpose.com is up and running again or I hook up with another image host.

can the newer-design upper tensioner be used in a 95 VR6?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (MigAce312)*

You can switch to the newer-style tensioner rail, but you'll also need to use the newer-style tensioner bolt and may need to replace the upper timing chain cover to use the newer-style bolt.
Check out this thread for some more info on switching from the old- to new-style setup.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1197807


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## 20psirabbit (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

just curious, my corrado makes a sound kind of like a loose exhaust shield vibrating/resonating (which i imagine is probably the chains) between 1500-2000 rpm, but it's not nearly as bad as the clip. i'm putting a blower on my car soon, and i'm wondering given the noise, how far along are my timing chains? any ideas?


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (20psirabbit)*

How many miles do you have? Most Corrado's timing chains (especially the upper tensioner rail) are pretty bad at 100k miles.


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## sbcAT631 (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Hey quick question about that.. does the sound only start after the oil warms up because i have a machien guna like sound coming from my car the power is still there but i makes the machien gun noise from about 2500 to 4500 rpm but it only starts when the oil temp is around 140 any ideas. i listened to your clip but yours sounds alot worse so im wondering if its the same prob. one mechanic said he thinks i spun a main bearing and the other says he thinks its a timing chain tensioner please help i wanna have my car runing primo b4 waterfest 04 thanks


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (sbcAT631)*

The sound in the clip was due to a broken upper guide and the noise from it was present when the oil was both cold and warm.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (sbcAT631)*

You'd be hard pressed to hear timing chain slap at those RPMS. I'm afraid it's probably something a bit more serious. Good luck


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## sbcAT631 (Sep 25, 2003)

could it be a spun bearing if it is how many hours labor and hom much money in parts do you think it would be?


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## farfromjapin (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

i have this noise on a 98 vr. what kind of upper tensioner, and can i do some temp fix until i have money?


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## kevwithoutacorrado (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (farfromjapin)*

lifters on vr6s also get very very loud, especialy when cold. thats more of a rythmic tick ad all rpms though.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (farfromjapin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *farfromjapin* »_i have this noise on a 98 vr. what kind of upper tensioner, and can i do some temp fix until i have money?









You have the newer style upper tensioner, so it's probably not that.
Unfortunately, there are no easy fixes. There's a good chance though that your noise, like mine, is from a broken (or breaking) guide rail. If it's the upper rail, you can replace it for around $15 and you don't have to remove the tranny. I'd considering checking to see if that's the problem just in case.


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## JrVR698 (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

That was so helpful, my car's been doing that recently and couldn't figure out what it was. It's almost an identical sound. Very happy with the post http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







Thanx


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## SoCal Driver (Nov 14, 2002)

I have been worried about my timing chain/guides. but after reading this thread and hearing that gawd awefull sound, I'm not so worried anymore. My T/B is going out but when i push the clutch in the engine sounds perfect. Oh, BTW I have over 178K miles on my VR and its still going strong. Thanks for all the great info. Good luck to everyone who's planning on taking on the great DIY jobl.


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## lowblackdub (Sep 12, 2000)

*Re: (SoCal Driver)*

What were the conditions that you heard these sounds under? I have a sewing machine kind of chugga chugga chugga noise only when the car is warm and at idle... any throttle blips and it disappears completely...


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

FYI, a DIY for replacing timing chains has been posted in the 12v forum - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264409.
Also posted are pics of the timing chain parts removed from my car at 147k+ miles - http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1264688.
Gary


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (VgRt6)*

Glad to say my motor doesnt make that sound at all








Bump for a good piece of info all VR owners should resource.


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_Glad to say my motor doesnt make that sound at all










Luckily mine doesn't make that sound anymore!


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## Der Kommissar (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (BlindingWhiteGLI)*

MY EARS MY EARS


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## adisenso (Feb 19, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (Der Kommissar)*

What the heck! Mine makes that noise and only have 57000 miles on it!


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## 631gti (Jan 4, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (adisenso)*

did u ever make the sound clip with the new parts?


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## rug (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (631gti)*

DAMNIT!
I've heard other soundfiles and though "YAY! my car doesn't have that problem yet!". But nooo







it's making that exact noice..
Didn't feel like doing this job now..








Carl


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (631gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *631gti* »_did u ever make the sound clip with the new parts?

Not yet, but I'll try and post it up in the next few weeks.
Gary


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## alchu (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Last Wednesday my car was fine. I left on vacation Thursday morning. When I start up my car on Sunday evening, guess what I heard? 56k miles, extended warranty. I wonder if this is covered...


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (alchu)*

Original owner - YES, 2nd owner - NO.
Are you sure it's the chains? The VR6 makes all kinds of noises and timing chain noise is only one of them.
Gary


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## alchu (Feb 2, 2004)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

really? I paid for the extended warranty when I bought this car from a dub dealer.
I'll call for an appointment. this is a new noise. we'll see what they diagnose it to be. I'm actually thinking that it _isn't_ the same problem as the sound is coming from the passenger side of the engine, not the driver's side.
Allan


_Modified by alchu at 4:58 PM 8-4-2004_


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## VgRt6 (Mar 8, 2002)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (alchu)*

Before calling for an appointment, check the serpentine belt tensioner pulley on the passenger's side of the engine. The bearing often dries out and makes a ton of noise. You can regrease the bearing using the DIY in the link in my signature. If it isn't the tensioner, then it may be the water pump. There is a DIY in my sig for changing this too.
Gary


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## Jimboin999 (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

Fired up my 01 gti today after havin a good rip last night listening to rammstien - duhast hah.. Crank sounded fine but when it started up, made a noticebly different knocking sound which when i popped the hood sounded like it was coming from the top end. Brought my dad outside who is a retired chevy mechanic( vw hater haha, cant blame him really from a mechanics point of view) said it sounded like it could be a loose bearing or maybe a lifter. As he came outside and we were listening, the noise went away... I was like wtf. Went inside the car and brought the rpms up slowly and from around 1500 to 2500 rpms, made that scary knock( was nothing like the obnoxious knock my friends vr was making after she ***** up a valve), but it is still worrying me. I will have a vid clip of it up soon and let me guys know what you think, probably gonna take it to get looked at monday afternoon. I know these vr's make a ton of different funky noises which most of the time is just normal, just wanna be sure http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . 
Thanks in advance! you guys can PM me, itd be easiest.
http://s70.photobucket.com/alb...e.flv


_Modified by Jimboin999 at 3:35 PM 2-17-2008_


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## patrikman (May 10, 2008)

*Re: Finally ... a sound clip of timing chain noise (VgRt6)*

I will have trouble sleeping tonight. and the next night. and the next night. who wants a mk3 glx w/146k? real cheap! it's almost paid off.


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## andymaxima (Jun 28, 2010)

*24 valve with timing chain noise at 72k*

my 03 gli 24 valve vr6 has 72k on it and its been making a timing chain noise every since i bought it at 63k....pretty much bull****...dont know what im going to do...wasnt expecting the guides to wear this early


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## andymaxima (Jun 28, 2010)

sorry didnt relize how old this thread was until after i posted


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## dankvwguy (Jul 24, 2005)

i forgot how old my video was until i saw this 

i have to say im glad my chains **** the bed at 53k. if they hadnt i would of never installed my stage 2 clutch and LSD


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## wmcraft (Nov 25, 2009)

My guides went out suddenly one day. It was about two years ago. VW dealer either couldn't figure it out or were screwing with me, upping the diags chanrges by "trying" this or that at my cost. I brought it home and found the VWVortex forums. I left the car sit for awhile, and am nearing completion of the timing set replacement, oil pan/pickup cleanout, and doing the thermo. housing/crack pipe replacement and starter motor noise fix DIYs at the same time. Anyway, I took a video back when and just posted it to youtube. It's a little different than the OP's because I think I had more damage done, but I've confirmed what the problem was. In my case, the guides had been crushed into tiny bits of plastic in the oil pan and were crowding the oil pickup screen. Here's the video - hope it helps someone.


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## modulis (Oct 23, 2003)

*Does this sound like the timing chain?*






It happens right around 1500RPM. Above that or below it the sound diminishes. I tried to hold it right at that RPM so you can best hear it. The sound is very loud in the video because I popped the trunk and sat the phone right next the engine. But from inside the cabin you can barely hear it. And I never notice it when I'm actually driving. I have 117k miles and have never had the chain, guides or tensioner replaced.


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