# Glow Plugs and Limp Mode



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

So I've picked my car back up today where a local garage were doiung the last works on repairing the front damage. Between me starting the repairs and me taking it over to the bodyshop I had the glow plugs light come on and limp mode.

About a week before the damage I had had the DPF light come on due to me doing a lot of stop/start driving through that week, so I took it on a motorway run for 30 minutes and it all cleared up.

I've done a VCDS scan (well, OBDeleven) to try and find out what the issue is but I'm a little lost here. I don't want to just go and buy new glow plugs if thats not the issue. The scans is below. Battery was low which has caused a number of the low voltage/intermittent codes



OBDeleven data log

Date: 2019-01-19 13:44

VIN: WVWZZZ3DZ88001639
Car: Volkswagen Phaeton
Year: 2008
Body type: Saloon
Mileage: 203900 KM

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

---------------------------------------------------------------
02 Transmission


Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
03 Brakes

System description: ESP 5.7 allrad H33
Software number: 3D0614517AK
Software version: 0047
Coding: 0008356

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
05 Kessy

System description: Kessy
Software number: 3D0909139B
Software version: 6840
Hardware number: 5WK48504
Serial number: VWX3Z0G1641382
Coding: 0004328

Subsystems: 
System description: ELV
Software number: XXXXXXXXXXX
Software version: XXXX

Trouble codes: 
00087 - Terminal 30 for starting relevant consumers Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
06 Seat Adjustment Passenger Side

System description: Sitzmemory D1 BF
Software number: 3D0959759CA
Software version: 1722
Coding: 0000003

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
07 Display Control Unit

System description: ZAB COCKPIT
Software number: 3D0035007AJ
Software version: 2215
Coding: 0400527

Trouble codes: 
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
08 Air Conditioning

System description: Climatronic D1
Software number: 3D0907040J
Software version: 2031
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
00716 - Recirculation flap motor Faulty
Intermittent
00779 - Outside temperature sensor Open circuit/short circuit to B+
Intermittent
00229 - Refrigerant pressure Lower limit not reached
static
01308 - Roof electronics control module No signal/communication
 Intermittent
00477 - Information display ctrl head ctrl module, front on comf. CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
00908 - Wiper motor control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00466 - Steering column electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
09 Central Electrics

System description: J519
Software number: 3D0937049M
Software version: 6500
Hardware number: 3D0937049M
Serial number: --------------
Long coding: 60010000AB2115020000000000000000

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
11 Engine 2

---------------------------------------------------------------
13 Adaptive Cruise Control

---------------------------------------------------------------
15 Airbag

System description: 0H Airbag 8.4E+ H12
Software number: 3D0909601E
Software version: 0935
Coding: 0012360

Trouble codes: 
00532 - Supply voltage Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
16 Steering Column Electronics

System description: J527
Software number: 7L6953549K
Software version: 3601
Coding: 0000012

Trouble codes: 
00532 - Supply voltage Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
17 Dash Board

System description: J285 KOMBI-INST.
Software number: 3D0920982P
Software version: 4227
Hardware number: 3D0920982P *
Coding: 0007401

Trouble codes: 
00532 - Supply voltage Lower limit not reached
Intermittent
01336 - Combination Comfort databus No signal/communication
Intermittent
00466 - Steering column electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01320 - Climatronic control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01334 - Right rear door ctrl. module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01333 - Left rear door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01332 - Frt.pass. side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01331 - Driver side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01305 - Databus Infotainment No signal/communication
Intermittent
00457 - Vehicle Electrical System Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01330 - Comfort system central control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01207 - Auxiliary heater control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01300 - Navigation System with CD Drive Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
18 Auxiliary Parking Heater

System description: Standheizung
Software number: 3D0815005AK
Software version: 3426

Trouble codes: 
01415 - Recirculation pump Open circuit/short circuit to B+
static
01415 - Recirculation pump Short circuit to ground
static
01299 - Diagnostic interface for data bus Please read DTC
Intermittent
 01320 - Climatronic control module Please read DTC
static
00664 - Fuel gauge Lower limit not reached
static


---------------------------------------------------------------
19 Gateway

System description: J533 GW-K-CAN TP20
Software number: 6N0909901
Software version: 4227
Hardware number: 3D0920982P *
Long coding: 5FF2F7AE3B1003

Trouble codes: 
00532 - Supply voltage Lower limit not reached
Intermittent
01336 - Combination Comfort databus No signal/communication
Intermittent
00466 - Steering column electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01320 - Climatronic control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01334 - Right rear door ctrl. module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01333 - Left rear door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01332 - Frt.pass. side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01331 - Driver side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01308 - Roof electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01305 - Databus Infotainment No signal/communication
Intermittent
00457 - Vehicle Electrical System Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00908 - Wiper motor control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01330 - Comfort system central control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01207 - Auxiliary heater control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01303 - Telephone transceiver No signal/communication
Intermittent
01327 - Parking aid control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01300 - Navigation System with CD Drive Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00463 - Digital Sound System Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00459 - Front Information Display Control Head No signal/communication
Intermittent
00461 - Frt. pass. memory seat control module No signal/communication
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
23 Brake Boost

---------------------------------------------------------------
25 Immobilizer

---------------------------------------------------------------
27 Display Control Unit Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
28 Climate Control Unit Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
29 Light Control Left

System description: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l)
Software number: 3D0909157A
Software version: 0001
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
2E Media Player Position 3

---------------------------------------------------------------
34 Ride Control System

System description: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0
Software number: 3D0907553C
Software version: 1122
Coding: 0005521

Trouble codes: 
01598 - Drive battery voltage Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
36 Seat Adjustment Driver Side

System description: Sitzmemory D1 F
Software number: 3D0959760CA
Software version: 1722
Coding: 0000004

Trouble codes: 
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent
00477 - Information display ctrl head ctrl module, front on comf. CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
37 Navigation

System description: NAVIGATION
Software number: 3D0919887G
Software version: 2197
Coding: 0400000

Trouble codes: 
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
38 Roof Electronic Control Module

System description: Dachmodul
Software number: 3D0907135D
Software version: 0802
Coding: 0004159

Trouble codes: 
00926 - Terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
39 Light Control Right

System description: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r)
Software number: 3D0909158A
Software version: 0001
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
46 Central Module Comfort System

System description: X3 HSG
Software number: 3D0959933F
Software version: 0102
Coding: 0000040

Subsystems: 
System description: Tuersteuergeraet FS
Software number: 3D2959701H
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet BF
Software number: 3D2959702H
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet HL
Software number: 3D0959703G
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet HR
Software number: 3D0959704G
Software version: 0201

System description: 3L HDSG
Software number: 3D0909610C
Software version: 2330

System description: Neigungssensor
Software number: 7L0907719A
Software version: 0020

Trouble codes: 
00455 - Access/start authorization control module at comfort CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
01341 - Control module in instrument cluster at comfort CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
00477 - Information display ctrl head ctrl module, front on comf. CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
01308 - Roof electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00927 - Terminal 30 right Open circuit
Intermittent
01516 - Terminal 30 left Open circuit
Intermittent
00926 - Terminal 30 Open circuit
Intermittent
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
static
01134 - Alarm horn No signal/communication
Intermittent
00987 - Left brake light bulb Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
00988 - Right brake light bulb Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
01331 - Driver side door control module Lower limit not reached
static
01332 - Frt.pass. side door control module Lower limit not reached
static
01333 - Left rear door control module Lower limit not reached
static
01334 - Right rear door ctrl. module Lower limit not reached
static
00318 - Voltage supply for rear lid control module Lower limit not reached
Intermittent
00896 - Rear lid lock unit Implausible signal
Intermittent
00319 - Rear lid hydraulic motor Open circuit
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
47 Sound System

System description: 12K-AUDIOVERST
Software number: 3D0035466A
Software version: 0118

Trouble codes: 
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent
00872 - Left rear bass speaker Open circuit
static
00873 - Right rear bass speaker Open circuit
static


---------------------------------------------------------------
55 Headlight Regulation

---------------------------------------------------------------
56 Radio

---------------------------------------------------------------
57 TV Tuner

---------------------------------------------------------------
65 Tire Pressure Monitoring

---------------------------------------------------------------
66 Seat Adjustment Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
68 Wiper Control Unit

System description: Front Wiper
Software number: 3D2955120B
Software version: 3401
Coding: 0013685

Trouble codes: 
00155 - Control module communication on driver-frt.pass. side Open circuit
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
69 Trailer Function

---------------------------------------------------------------
71 Battery Charger

---------------------------------------------------------------
75 Telematics Communication Unit

---------------------------------------------------------------
76 Parking Assistance

System description: 01 Einparkhilfe
Software number: 3D0919283D
Software version: 0907

Trouble codes: 
01629 - Left front parking aid sensors Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
01628 - Left front center parking aid sensors Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
00434 - Left front inner park assist sensor Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
00435 - Right front inner park assist sensor Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
01627 - Right front center parking aid sensors Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
01626 - Right front parking aid sensors Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
00435 - Right front inner park assist sensor Faulty
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
77 Telephone

System description: VW rSAP Phaeton
Software number: 3W0035385AP
Software version: 0195
Hardware number: 3W0035385AP
Serial number: 30700000021049
Coding: 0011001

Trouble codes: 
00003 - Control module Faulty
static

************************************************************************


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## FlyHigh757 (Aug 22, 2018)

Guy, I'd get the Left Battery on charge. Once fully charged, clear the faults and see where you are at. The Phaeton seems to be very voltage sensitive and lots of modules don't like a low voltage. Regarding glow plugs... How is the engine start and initial tickover? 6 cylinders will start fine on 5 glow plugs, if you start getting down to 4 or fewer you'll start to notice it.
I've not had to change the glow plugs, but five of them look fairly easy to get to, the 6th will need a few bits removing.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

It starts up just fine, car doesn't feel bad at all. Do you think the charge on the battery may be what's causing the issue with the glow plugs? The liggts flashing which I then read means there's an issue with the engine management system but I was hoping to find out more off that scan.

Assuming that is the reason for it limping, would charging it up take it out of limp mode or am I going to need VCDS to take it out? Not a problem if so, will just have to borrow it again. 

Any more help would be massively appreciated, it's -5°C today and would love to get the car back up and running for warmer drives to work haha

Edit: Buying a battery charger today, I'll leave the battery on charge over night and see how we look in the morning. To give an idea on the battery, I recently had to unlock the doors with the manual key as it was too low for the key fob to work. This was because from the crash the bonnet wouldn't click down and the MDF has been showing the display to close the bonnet non-stop for a week when when the cars locked so I think that drained it. Bonnet fixed though so that's that problem sorted.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Okay so I've had more of a dig around on the effect of low battery on Glow Plugs and I think this could be the issue. From what I have read, glow plugs take a lot of current to heat up and so low battery can effect them. I read a thread on a Jetta TDI owner that had major glow plug issues in the cold that he managed to fix by replacing the battery.

My fear here is that mine is in Limp mode, so I feel there could be some damage to the engine or engine management system in some way. Lets hope charging the left battery tonight works. I'll do a DPF regen too.


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## FlyHigh757 (Aug 22, 2018)

I guess the low battery is causing most of your issues, I'm not sure why it's in limp though, again it could just be sensor issues. I had to replace a G450 DPF differential pressure sensor to fix a DPF/limp mode problem. That came up on VCDS though. £30 fix and not had any DPF issues since. I don't think this is your problem though. With regards to a regen, I did do this, after replacing the G450, through VCDS and it's quite brutal! Engine will auto rev to 2000 RPM for about 30 mins. It gets hot under the car, very hot. Luckily I did it on a windy day, so would recommend doing it this time of year, with a reasonable breeze. It's not recommended to do them too often though. So if you have done one recently, I would get your battery fully charged, clear the faults it created (you may need VCDS again) and then take it on a run. If it goes in to limp again, have a look at VCDS and then a regen. 

Did your bump set off any airbags? I'm trying to get a replacement Aux Heater to work and the donor car had a crash. When I connected the heater to the car and ran VCDS there were two faults on the ECU, Heater Locked Out and Crash Signal, I needed the security code to clear the crash fault out of the ECU. It's a long shot, but if the car triggered the Crash Signal, they could be in loads of ECUs and need clearing, although I would expected that to have shown on the scan in your initial post. Food for thought though.

Depending on the charger, it may take a while to charge the battery! Best of luck.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

What do you mean by "limp mode"?


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

invisiblewave said:


> What do you mean by "limp mode"?


Maybe the term is used differently in different places. Check engine light is on the power is restricted to reduce wear on the engine. 0-60 is around 20-25 seconds, revs limited to ~3-4k I think.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

FlyHigh757 said:


> I guess the low battery is causing most of your issues, I'm not sure why it's in limp though, again it could just be sensor issues. I had to replace a G450 DPF differential pressure sensor to fix a DPF/limp mode problem. That came up on VCDS though. £30 fix and not had any DPF issues since. I don't think this is your problem though. With regards to a regen, I did do this, after replacing the G450, through VCDS and it's quite brutal! Engine will auto rev to 2000 RPM for about 30 mins. It gets hot under the car, very hot. Luckily I did it on a windy day, so would recommend doing it this time of year, with a reasonable breeze. It's not recommended to do them too often though. So if you have done one recently, I would get your battery fully charged, clear the faults it created (you may need VCDS again) and then take it on a run. If it goes in to limp again, have a look at VCDS and then a regen.
> 
> Did your bump set off any airbags? I'm trying to get a replacement Aux Heater to work and the donor car had a crash. When I connected the heater to the car and ran VCDS there were two faults on the ECU, Heater Locked Out and Crash Signal, I needed the security code to clear the crash fault out of the ECU. It's a long shot, but if the car triggered the Crash Signal, they could be in loads of ECUs and need clearing, although I would expected that to have shown on the scan in your initial post. Food for thought though.
> 
> Depending on the charger, it may take a while to charge the battery! Best of luck.


I did a forced regen on my 2007 Passat so know what I'm in for. With it being -5C today its nice and cold for a regen though so that's good. I did a passive regen on the Phaeton a while back just taking it 30 mins each way on the motorway cruising in manual, 3.5k revs in 4th gear but in limp you can't get the revs up to do that of course. I have DPF cover on my warranty so if it is that I'll see if I can sort out a high flow sport DPF from Darkside Developments on the warranty but will have to dig around there. Even though its cheaper I expect they will only cover it with OEM parts on the warranty.

Airbags didn't go off. The car was off and I was reversed into when I wasn't there. I managed to work out from the marks that it was a towbar that went through my grille but I just came back to see the damage. No air bags off and the only noticeable difference was that my parking sensor kept going off due to part of the bumper covering it.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

GuyPaddick said:


> Maybe the term is used differently in different places. Check engine light is on the power is restricted to reduce wear on the engine. 0-60 is around 20-25 seconds, revs limited to ~3-4k I think.


I don't recall that particular problem cropping up previously. The only two other limp modes I remember are the transmission (restricted to third gear I think), and when the ABS fails (car will idle, but throttle is disabled).


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

invisiblewave said:


> GuyPaddick said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe the term is used differently in different places. Check engine light is on the power is restricted to reduce wear on the engine. 0-60 is around 20-25 seconds, revs limited to ~3-4k I think.
> ...


I had limp mode due to my DPF in my passat. When the DPF gets too clogged it restricts power otherwise you can't expell the heat through the exhaust as fast as the engine is creating it, engine overheats and goes bang.


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

All them error codes are classic LHS low battery voltage.

Seen it millions of times on my poxy P.

Once the battery is recharged, you can clear all of them.

A few minor ones will remain ( in my case things like the aux heater etc, as it's knackered ).

Glow plugs are easy enough to change, thankfully they are decent 10mm thick ones, so they don't snap too easy, BUT, BUT, you MUST ONLY ever do them with the engine RED HOT.

Never cold, as you'll deffo snap them / bring yourself some long winded grief.

They do tend to squeak on removal, as the threads are nickel plated, and they fight the cylinder head threads on removal ( silly design, or there's some mismatch in the thread pitches ).

When I bought my P years ago, it had at least 3 O/C glow plugs, never had limp mode... only time I did, recently was when the DPF sensor gave up the ghost, so swapped it out & blew out the HP & LP lines to the DPF.

Bit of a pain to get to, but I borrowed a mates ramp, so did it in about 45 mins, with a cuppa.

Part was only about £40 via the "bay".

Quick bit of adaptation, job done ( it'd probably work without it to be honest ).

cheers.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

_Taz_ said:


> All them error codes are classic LHS low battery voltage.
> 
> Seen it millions of times on my poxy P.
> 
> ...


It turned out my Mum had an old battery charger so I used that last night but I don't think it works. Disconnected positive and negative connections on the battery. If I'm correct the Aux battery if on the left side of the boot? Red cable from the charger connected to the positive, black to the negative and left it on "trickle" for about 12 hours. I tried it again this morning but battery is still so low I cannot unlock the car with the key fob and it took a while to start the ignition. It feels like battery has actually drained.

We're going to get a new battery charger today then I'll try again when I get home from work. If that doesn't work I'll replace the battery. Any recommendations if I need to grab a new one? Starter motor batter was changed 3 months ago.


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## FlyHigh757 (Aug 22, 2018)

Had the same prolem as _Taz_ with the G450 sensor and the car definitely went in to limp mode. Initially I only had the glow plug warning light come on, then it would clear it's self. A few days later would happen again and then I got a DPF warning on the MFD (I've got a 2009 GP2 but I'd imagine the GP1 is the same). I've got some drive up ramps and it took me about 40mins to swap the sensor. You need a cold car as the sensor is on a bracket on top of the gearbox (on the RHS). It's a pain, and seeing its just air pipes going to it, they could have put it somewhere easier to get to! I think a lot of Golfs and Passats have them under the bonnet, right at the back of the engine, but a 5 min swap over! I didn't need to run an adaption, it just worked. All dash faults cleared themselves.

As _Taz_ says, if you do replace the glow plugs, get the engine really hot and then quickly crack all of the glow plugs, once you've done a couple of rotations move on to the next one and then go back and remove them. Just be gentle with them and steady pressure. However, I can't see glow plugs causing limp mode.

A battery conditioner may take up to two days to fully charge a battery, don't be alarmed, that's normal. If it does need changing, I believe it needs to be an AGM battery. Not sure on amperage though, I've not had to replace mine and they seem in good condition.


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## pscocoa (Jan 17, 2010)

My limp mode problem was also dpf pressure sensor - now fixed. Garage so far also unable to clear an open circuit fault code on antenna which seemed to appear at same time. The sensor is on top of gearbox as said previously. If it is any consolation - to do this job on a Touareg is a gearbox out job I hear!!


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

pscocoa said:


> My limp mode problem was also dpf pressure sensor - now fixed. Garage so far also unable to clear an open circuit fault code on antenna which seemed to appear at same time. The sensor is on top of gearbox as said previously. If it is any consolation - to do this job on a Touareg is a gearbox out job I hear!!


Okay so look like it may be this G450 sensor. My plan of action is as follows:

1. Fully charge battery, or buy a new one if needed
- Clear codes
2. If that doesn't fix it I'll replace sensor G450. To confirm, is this one I found on eBay right? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-...fferential-pressure-sensor-G450-/121932357333
- Clear codes
3. If that doesn't fix it I'll replace glowplugs. Again, to confirm these are right? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6X-FOR-V...0-V6-TDI-HEATER-GLOW-PLUGS-60903/221773765927 

That's the action plan as it stands based on the suggestions. I'll report back with my findings as soon as possible.


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## FlyHigh757 (Aug 22, 2018)

GuyPaddick said:


> Okay so look like it may be this G450 sensor. My plan of action is as follows:
> 
> 1. Fully charge battery, or buy a new one if needed
> - Clear codes
> ...


I've just got my old one out of the garage, the part number is VW AG 059 906 051A

I went to my local motor factors and they cross referenced it to a Bosch part number (Bosch made the original one too). BSC0281006005

Have a look at this....
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bosch-DP...d1a192:g:288AAOSwq9NZ06bf:rk:1:pf:0#vi-ilComp

Strangely, eBay say's it's not compatible with the 233BHP but is with the 240HP! My car is the 233HP GP2 and it works a treat! I paid £30inc VAT, VW wanted over £50!


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Lovely, I'll snatch that up if the battery doesn't sort it. Mine is the 229bhp variant. From my understanding the GP0-3 3.0 TDIs all had slightly different tunning. I think it was 222, 229, 233 and 240bhp from memory. May be getting Bhp and PS figures mixed around in my head though


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

So, an update. I left the new charger on last night but the charger is meant to flash green when its charging. It did this then went off. This morning the battery is still completely flat (12 hours on charge) so perhaps this battery is kaput.

I just read Michaels guide on disconnecting and replacing batteries and I see he mentioned disconnecting the starter battery first in the process. I haven't touched the starter battery so it is still fully connected while charging, could this be my issue at all?

I can't see why it would be an issue, the auxiliary battery is disconnected from the circuit and should be charging regardless of the starter battery. 

Autodoc have a sale on at the moment, I can grab two 000915105CE AGM batteries and thinking about replacing both batteries. I know the starter motor battery for the 3.0 is not an AGM battery but from reading Michaels post it is in the 5.0 TDI and can be used as an upgrade, especially for the winter.

I do notice though that this battery is classified as "for vehicles with start/stop" but the Phaeton doesn't have this does it? My battery charger has an option for start/stop batteries or not, for which I selected that it does not.


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## JCJ (Nov 26, 2013)

Hi Guy, AGM batteries are referred to as being stop/start batteries as are ECM batteries (which I hadn’t heard of). 

G14 AGM from tayna.co.uk is an option


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Start/stop is a retrofit, at least on the US model years. There's no issue with charging either battery without disconnecting. In fact, the whole battery disconnect sequence is a bit of a tin foil hat thing, there's a theoretical risk of firing the fuse on the RH battery when disconnecting the LH battery, but I've done it without any problem on more than one occasion, and I don't recall anyone accidentally firing the fuse. 

You can put the larger AGM in the start battery position by removing the battery tray that's currently there. For the non-V10 engines, I believe it's largely an unnecessary expense.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Thanks for the help both. If the AGM battery is start/stop compatible but I don't have it installed in the car should I still be setting the battery charger to "Start/Stop" mode?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think I'm misunderstanding, I thought you were referring to push button start. I have no idea what start-stop mode is in relation to batteries. My charger has an AGM setting, is that the same thing?


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Ah yeah, Stop/Start is where the car shuts off the engine when you're stationary and then very quickly starts back up when you accelerate again. Very mixed views on it regarding does it actually save fuel as you're pumping more fuel in starting it.

Anyways, I got home last night and did some more digging around and testing. After 24 hours on charge the battery is still flat with no signs of improvement since being connected. I have a Halfords Smart Charger Plus and I'm using it on Winter Mode as it was -3C last night. Instead of a flashing green ring on to say it is charging, I have a solid red ring that is not specified in the instructions. After a look around online people with the same charger said it won't work on completely flat batteries. Their suggestions were to connect up the charger to the battery while the battery is still connected to the car. Turn the car on and leave it for 20-30 minutes to get some preliminary charge, then turn the car off, disconnect the battery from the car and let it charge from the charger. I found that out late last night so didn't get around to it, plus I'll need to grab some more fuel first.

On a side note, I did another scan last night which I've posted below. Nice to see "No Issues" under transmission though.

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

System description: 3.0TDI EDC17G100AG
Software number: 3D0907401D
Software version: 0090
Hardware number: 3D0907401D
Hardware version: <>
Serial number: VWX3Z0G1641382
Long coding: 0406002C190F0160
---------------------------------------------------------------
02 Transmission


Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
03 Brakes

System description: ESP 5.7 allrad H33
Software number: 3D0614517AK
Software version: 0047
Coding: 0008356

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
05 Kessy

System description: Kessy
Software number: 3D0909139B
Software version: 6840
Hardware number: 5WK48504
Serial number: VWX3Z0G1641382
Coding: 0004328
---------------------------------------------------------------
06 Seat Adjustment Passenger Side

System description: Sitzmemory D1 BF
Software number: 3D0959759CA
Software version: 1722
Coding: 0000003

Trouble codes: 
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
07 Display Control Unit

System description: ZAB COCKPIT
Software number: 3D0035007AJ
Software version: 2215
Coding: 0400527

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
08 Air Conditioning

System description: Climatronic D1
Software number: 3D0907040J
Software version: 2031
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
00716 - Recirculation flap motor Faulty
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
09 Central Electrics

System description: J519
Software number: 3D0937049M
Software version: 6500
Hardware number: 3D0937049M
Serial number: --------------
Long coding: 60010000AB2115020000000000000000

Trouble codes: 
01341 - Control module in instrument cluster at comfort CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
00477 - Information display ctrl head ctrl module, front on comf. CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
01496 - Left fog light bulb Open circuit
Intermittent
01500 - Right fog light bulb Open circuit
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
11 Engine 2

---------------------------------------------------------------
13 Adaptive Cruise Control

---------------------------------------------------------------
15 Airbag

System description: 0H Airbag 8.4E+ H12
Software number: 3D0909601E
Software version: 0935
Coding: 0012360

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
16 Steering Column Electronics

System description: J527
Software number: 7L6953549K
Software version: 3601
Coding: 0000012

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
17 Dash Board

System description: J285 KOMBI-INST.
Software number: 3D0920982P
Software version: 4227
Hardware number: 3D0920982P *
Coding: 0007401

Trouble codes: 
00466 - Steering column electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01320 - Climatronic control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00455 - Access/start authorization control module at comfort CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
01334 - Right rear door ctrl. module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01333 - Left rear door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01332 - Frt.pass. side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01331 - Driver side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00457 - Vehicle Electrical System Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01330 - Comfort system central control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01207 - Auxiliary heater control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01336 - Combination Comfort databus No signal/communication
Intermittent
01305 - Databus Infotainment No signal/communication
Intermittent
01300 - Navigation System with CD Drive Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00446 - Function limitation due to insufficient voltage Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
18 Auxiliary Parking Heater

System description: Standheizung
Software number: 3D0815005AK
Software version: 3426

Trouble codes: 
00664 - Fuel gauge Lower limit not reached
static
01320 - Climatronic control module Please read DTC
static


---------------------------------------------------------------
19 Gateway

System description: J533 GW-K-CAN TP20
Software number: 6N0909901
Software version: 4227
Hardware number: 3D0920982P *
Long coding: 5FF2F7AE3B1003

Trouble codes: 
00466 - Steering column electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01320 - Climatronic control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00455 - Access/start authorization control module at comfort CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent
01334 - Right rear door ctrl. module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01333 - Left rear door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01332 - Frt.pass. side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01331 - Driver side door control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01308 - Roof electronics control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00457 - Vehicle Electrical System Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00908 - Wiper motor control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01330 - Comfort system central control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01207 - Auxiliary heater control module No signal/communication
Intermittent
01336 - Combination Comfort databus No signal/communication
Intermittent
01305 - Databus Infotainment No signal/communication
Intermittent
01303 - Telephone transceiver No signal/communication
Intermittent
01300 - Navigation System with CD Drive Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00463 - Digital Sound System Control Module No signal/communication
Intermittent
00459 - Front Information Display Control Head No signal/communication
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
23 Brake Boost

---------------------------------------------------------------
25 Immobilizer

---------------------------------------------------------------
27 Display Control Unit Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
28 Climate Control Unit Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
29 Light Control Left

System description: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l)
Software number: 3D0909157A
Software version: 0001
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
2E Media Player Position 3

---------------------------------------------------------------
34 Ride Control System

System description: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0
Software number: 3D0907553C
Software version: 1122
Coding: 0005521

Trouble codes: 
00778 - Steering angle sensor Please read DTC
static


---------------------------------------------------------------
36 Seat Adjustment Driver Side

System description: Sitzmemory D1 F
Software number: 3D0959760CA
Software version: 1722
Coding: 0000004

Trouble codes: 
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
37 Navigation

System description: NAVIGATION
Software number: 3D0919887G
Software version: 2197
Coding: 0400000

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
38 Roof Electronic Control Module

System description: Dachmodul
Software number: 3D0907135D
Software version: 0802
Coding: 0004159

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
39 Light Control Right

System description: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r)
Software number: 3D0909158A
Software version: 0001
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
46 Central Module Comfort System

System description: X3 HSG
Software number: 3D0959933F
Software version: 0102
Coding: 0000040

Subsystems: 
System description: Tuersteuergeraet FS
Software number: 3D2959701H
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet BF
Software number: 3D2959702H
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet HL
Software number: 3D0959703G
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet HR
Software number: 3D0959704G
Software version: 0201

System description: 3L HDSG
Software number: 3D0909610C
Software version: 2330

System description: Neigungssensor
Software number: 7L0907719A
Software version: 0020

Trouble codes: 
00318 - Voltage supply for rear lid control module Lower limit not reached
Intermittent
00896 - Rear lid lock unit Implausible signal
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
47 Sound System

System description: 12K-AUDIOVERST
Software number: 3D0035466A
Software version: 0118

Trouble codes: 
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Lower limit not reached
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
55 Headlight Regulation

---------------------------------------------------------------
56 Radio

---------------------------------------------------------------
57 TV Tuner

---------------------------------------------------------------
65 Tire Pressure Monitoring

---------------------------------------------------------------
66 Seat Adjustment Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
68 Wiper Control Unit

System description: Front Wiper
Software number: 3D2955120B
Software version: 3401
Coding: 0013685

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
69 Trailer Function

---------------------------------------------------------------
71 Battery Charger

System description: Batteriemanagement
Software number: 3D0915181D
Software version: 2800

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
75 Telematics Communication Unit

---------------------------------------------------------------
76 Parking Assistance

System description: 01 Einparkhilfe
Software number: 3D0919283D
Software version: 0907

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
77 Telephone

System description: VW rSAP Phaeton
Software number: 3W0035385AP
Software version: 0195
Hardware number: 3W0035385AP
Serial number: 30700000021049
Coding: 0011001

Trouble codes: 
00003 - Control module Faulty
static


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't know why you're spending so much time worrying about the charger! Just stick a volt meter on the battery terminals, you'll know straight away if it's dead or not. If the battery is dead to the point where the charger won't work on it, you need a new one.


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

invisiblewave said:


> I don't know why you're spending so much time worrying about the charger! Just stick a volt meter on the battery terminals, you'll know straight away if it's dead or not. If the battery is dead to the point where the charger won't work on it, you need a new one.


Because at the moment the ~£150 I would be spending on a new battery I'd rather not have to spend right now if possible as finances are a bit tight following the recent repairs to the front of the car. If I need a new battery then I need a new battery, but I don't have a volt meter to check that with and am seeing what my options are on reviving the current one before I go and spend more money on it. Even if I have to replace it in a couple of months time it gives me some time to get my finances back on track first.

I've been reading through more today and it seems common with many battery chargers that they won't charge a fully flat battery but there's no harm in me trying to fix it before reaching into my pockets.

If I could afford it I'd have bought 2 new batteries, the G450 sensor and new glow plugs and had put them in straight away.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You can probably find a cheap volt meter for about ten quid at Halfords or B&Q. You won't revive a dead AGM, I've tried, and mine was nowhere near as parrot-like as yours appears to be.


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

It is something I need to get yeah, I'll get one soon. 

On a side note I left the car idling for 20 minutes last night to give the battery some juice. Connected up the battery pack and it is charging! Rechecked this morning and it is still charging which is great news as before it was cutting out after 2 minutes. I'll wait until its fully charged before I try anything further but when it is I'll get another scan done and see where we stand. 

Guy


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's unlikely to ever reach the fully charged state. It'll be interesting to see what the charger does, mine would never show it fully charged.


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

I'll report back with my findings tonight. I've accepted that even if it fully charges its going to need replacing soon as I don't expect it to hold that charge but it will be interesting to see how well it does.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

After you buy the new one, make sure you top it up with the charger from time-to-time if you don't drive it much. The on-board charging always seems much more effective when the battery is starting to get flaky, a long drive would always get rid of the gremlins on mine, but charging with the charger wouldn't.


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Yeah I will, I've learnt that now. I do drive it daily to and from work, so around 60 miles a day almost all on motorway so shouldn't need any regular charge but I'll make sure to give it some juice if I'm leaving it for a while.


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

So, with the battery charged and fully working again I've been able to do another scan with OBDeleven. It's not given me any further ideas as to what it is. Once I cleared the codes the only remaining one was for Module 76, Telephone, which my car doesn't have. I have noticed that for each scan, modules 01 Engine and 11 Engine 2 there is no data and I imagine this is where I would find any errors for DPF, Glow Plugs and EMS so I may just need to do a proper VCDS scan.

I can run a forced DPF regen through OBDeleven but without knowing what the issue is I am hesitant to leave my engine revving for 30 minutes with an EMS light on.

I've posted the OBDeleven log below for reference if anyone has any good ideas but I think the next step is a VCDS scan to see if I can get some Engine fault codes to show.



OBDeleven data log

Date: 2019-01-27 22:29

VIN: WVWZZZ3DZ88001639
Car: Volkswagen Phaeton
Year: 2008
Body type: Saloon
Mileage: 203910 KM

---------------------------------------------------------------
01 Engine

System description: 3.0TDI EDC17G100AG
Software number: 3D0907401D
Software version: 0090
Hardware number: 3D0907401D
Hardware version: <>
Serial number: VWX3Z0G1641382
Long coding: 0406002C190F0160
---------------------------------------------------------------
02 Transmission


Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
03 Brakes

System description: ESP 5.7 allrad H33
Software number: 3D0614517AK
Software version: 0047
Coding: 0008356

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
05 Kessy

System description: Kessy
Software number: 3D0909139B
Software version: 6840
Hardware number: 5WK48504
Serial number: VWX3Z0G1641382
Coding: 0004328

Subsystems: 
System description: ELV
Software number: XXXXXXXXXXX
Software version: XXXX

Trouble codes: 
00087 - Terminal 30 for starting relevant consumers Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
00668 - Vehicle voltage terminal 30 Open circuit/short circuit to ground
Intermittent
00164 - Battery Monitoring Control Module in emergency mode Implausible signal
Intermittent
01341 - Control module in instrument cluster at comfort CAN No signal/communication
Intermittent


---------------------------------------------------------------
06 Seat Adjustment Passenger Side

System description: Sitzmemory D1 BF
Software number: 3D0959759CA
Software version: 1722
Coding: 0000003

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
07 Display Control Unit

System description: ZAB COCKPIT
Software number: 3D0035007AJ
Software version: 2215
Coding: 0400527

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
08 Air Conditioning

System description: Climatronic D1
Software number: 3D0907040J
Software version: 2031
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
09 Central Electrics

System description: J519
Software number: 3D0937049M
Software version: 6500
Hardware number: 3D0937049M
Serial number: --------------
Long coding: 60010000AB2115020000000000000000

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
11 Engine 2

---------------------------------------------------------------
13 Adaptive Cruise Control

---------------------------------------------------------------
15 Airbag

System description: 0H Airbag 8.4E+ H12
Software number: 3D0909601E
Software version: 0935
Coding: 0012360

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
16 Steering Column Electronics

System description: J527
Software number: 7L6953549K
Software version: 3601
Coding: 0000012

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
17 Dash Board

System description: J285 KOMBI-INST.
Software number: 3D0920982P
Software version: 4227
Hardware number: 3D0920982P *
Coding: 0007401

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
18 Auxiliary Parking Heater

System description: Standheizung
Software number: 3D0815005AK
Software version: 3426

Trouble codes: 
01299 - Diagnostic interface for data bus Please read DTC
Intermittent
00664 - Fuel gauge Lower limit not reached
static


---------------------------------------------------------------
19 Gateway

System description: J533 GW-K-CAN TP20
Software number: 6N0909901
Software version: 4227
Hardware number: 3D0920982P *
Long coding: 5FF2F7AE3B1003

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
23 Brake Boost

---------------------------------------------------------------
25 Immobilizer

---------------------------------------------------------------
27 Display Control Unit Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
28 Climate Control Unit Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
29 Light Control Left

System description: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l)
Software number: 3D0909157A
Software version: 0001
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
2E Media Player Position 3

---------------------------------------------------------------
34 Ride Control System

System description: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0
Software number: 3D0907553C
Software version: 1122
Coding: 0005521

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
36 Seat Adjustment Driver Side

System description: Sitzmemory D1 F
Software number: 3D0959760CA
Software version: 1722
Coding: 0000004

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
37 Navigation

System description: NAVIGATION
Software number: 3D0919887G
Software version: 2197
Coding: 0400000

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
38 Roof Electronic Control Module

System description: Dachmodul
Software number: 3D0907135D
Software version: 0802
Coding: 0004159

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
39 Light Control Right

System description: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r)
Software number: 3D0909158A
Software version: 0001
Coding: 0000001

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
46 Central Module Comfort System

System description: X3 HSG
Software number: 3D0959933F
Software version: 0102
Coding: 0000040

Subsystems: 
System description: Tuersteuergeraet FS
Software number: 3D2959701H
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet BF
Software number: 3D2959702H
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet HL
Software number: 3D0959703G
Software version: 0201

System description: Tuersteuergeraet HR
Software number: 3D0959704G
Software version: 0201

System description: 3L HDSG
Software number: 3D0909610C
Software version: 2330

System description: Neigungssensor
Software number: 7L0907719A
Software version: 0020

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
47 Sound System

System description: 12K-AUDIOVERST
Software number: 3D0035466A
Software version: 0118

Trouble codes: 
00872 - Left rear bass speaker Open circuit
static
00873 - Right rear bass speaker Open circuit
static


---------------------------------------------------------------
55 Headlight Regulation

---------------------------------------------------------------
56 Radio

---------------------------------------------------------------
57 TV Tuner

---------------------------------------------------------------
65 Tire Pressure Monitoring

---------------------------------------------------------------
66 Seat Adjustment Rear

---------------------------------------------------------------
68 Wiper Control Unit

System description: Front Wiper
Software number: 3D2955120B
Software version: 3401
Coding: 0013685

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
69 Trailer Function

---------------------------------------------------------------
71 Battery Charger

System description: Batteriemanagement
Software number: 3D0915181D
Software version: 2800

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
75 Telematics Communication Unit

---------------------------------------------------------------
76 Parking Assistance

System description: 01 Einparkhilfe
Software number: 3D0919283D
Software version: 0907

Trouble codes: 
No trouble codes found

---------------------------------------------------------------
77 Telephone

System description: VW rSAP Phaeton
Software number: 3W0035385AP
Software version: 0195
Hardware number: 3W0035385AP
Serial number: 30700000021049
Coding: 0011001

Trouble codes: 
00003 - Control module Faulty
static


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Another update, getting to the route cause. Managed to do an actual VCDS scan before as I noticed OBDeleven wasn't scanning the engine modules, 01 and 11, and I've got some more information.

So there are two faults that I am getting that may be causing the limp. Both need fixing anyway though. So firstly it said the DPF was clogged, but I am not getting a DPF light on the dash at all. DPF is covered under AA Warranty though and after a phonecall with them it seems I may well be able to put in an aftermarket DPF, most likely the Darkside Developments race DPF as it has much better flow, and they will still cover this.

The other code I was getting which I can also hear when starting the ignition is that the two radiator fans are getting stuck. They start up and then stop again, you can hear them clipping something as they spin but I'm not sure what as I can't see. I guess I should have replaced the radiator along with the A/C condenser.

So either, or both, of these are putting me into Limp by the looks of it. I imagine its the DPF but going to get both done. Thinking of doing the G450 sensor and Glow Plugs as well just to be on the safe side. Will call up the garage today and get it booked in for both.


----------



## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Don't forget to blow out both the sensing lines which go back to the dpf with compressed air.

When my car played up, I put a new sensor in anyway ( only £40 ).

but when I went to backblast the lines, I'm sure the LP side was blocked as it took a few goes with a 10 bar hp air line to blow it back, then I could suddenly hear it was unblocked..

That was most probably the issue in the 1st place, having done about 130k now.

Never had any issues with the DPF itself...

I bet once you do the sensor G450 or whatever, the car will then do a regen automatically...

You won't always get th dpf light, I didn't, but got the odd limp mode.

All sorted now.

as for the fans, one of mine has always reported a blockage, but they both spin perfect, so that's a bit of a red herring.

:wave:


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

_Taz_ said:


> Don't forget to blow out both the sensing lines which go back to the dpf with compressed air.
> 
> When my car played up, I put a new sensor in anyway ( only £40 ).
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice, I'll make sure I get both hoses cleared out. I've put an ebay order in today for a new left-side AGM battery, G450 sensor, glow plugs, 10L 5W30 Low SAPS Fully Synth engine oil + filter. Fingers crossed if we do all of those, regen and fix the radiator fans I SHOULD be back on the road!


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

So, I should be getting the car back today or tomorrow. From where I had had the car idling a lot during the repairs I had not been careful enough with the DPF and it was fully clogged. So much so that the garage said they could not do a regen on it and it would have to be replaced. Fortunately I learned from my mistakes with the 07 Passat and made sure to get DPF/Cat cover on this as an extra on the AA warranty it came with, so all I am paying is £20 diagnostics charge, and they installed the battery for me for free as they didn't call me Friday to let me know the car wouldn't actually be ready to pick up. As a bonus, they have also confirmed they can replace it with a Darkside Developments Sports DPF with much higher flow, and still have this covered by the AA warranty.

They've had a look at glow plugs and the G450 sensor and confirmed they are both fine at the moment so I've held onto the new parts until they need doing further down the line.

So the big culprit was the DPF, even though the DPF light wasn't on. Interesting, but glad we've gotten to the bottom of it and are coming out the other side with better parts.


----------



## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

GuyPaddick said:


> So, I should be getting the car back today or tomorrow. From where I had had the car idling a lot during the repairs I had not been careful enough with the DPF and it was fully clogged. So much so that the garage said they could not do a regen on it and it would have to be replaced. Fortunately I learned from my mistakes with the 07 Passat and made sure to get DPF/Cat cover on this as an extra on the AA warranty it came with, so all I am paying is £20 diagnostics charge, and they installed the battery for me for free as they didn't call me Friday to let me know the car wouldn't actually be ready to pick up. As a bonus, they have also confirmed they can replace it with a Darkside Developments Sports DPF with much higher flow, and still have this covered by the AA warranty.
> 
> They've had a look at glow plugs and the G450 sensor and confirmed they are both fine at the moment so I've held onto the new parts until they need doing further down the line.
> 
> So the big culprit was the DPF, even though the DPF light wasn't on. Interesting, but glad we've gotten to the bottom of it and are coming out the other side with better parts.


Good to hear you're so close to being back on the road now, Guy. You should probably see some improved mpg figures too now that the DPF is replaced and not blocked.


----------



## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

CallumCarr said:


> Good to hear you're so close to being back on the road now, Guy. You should probably see some improved mpg figures too now that the DPF is replaced and not blocked.


Its been a journey that's for sure. Since it was last on the road (apart from the occasional emergency 1 mile limp to the station) we've replaced the bumper, grille, bonnet, a/c condenser and lock carrier, and had to do a temporary job on the right headlight until I find a reasonably priced new set. It still works fine and has had the bulbs changed but has had to have the housing secured with glue as the mounts had snapped, so the next time the bulb needs changing or if I find a well priced second hand one for the GP1 then I'll replace the whole unit.

We then read error codes with the radiator fans not spinning and was worried I'd have to take everything I'd replaced back off again and potentially replace that, but fortunately with just the bumper off it was possible to see it had just been tangled up by the bonnet/hood release cable that I hadn't fully removed before fitting the new one, so that's out and the radiators are happy again.

They've ordered the new DPF today and will fit it when it comes in so should have the car back error free by Wed/Thurs this week. All I will then need to do is re-gas the aircon, but I'll leave that for when it starts to warm up and I actually need it.

While out of action I have also coded the auxiliary heater to be the parking heater (though have not been able to actually get it running yet due to low fuel and limp mode) so looking forward to that working later in the week. 

The funny thing about this was that my best friend was jesting about it, about how it must be a bad car as the DPFs gone (he knows its not but knows I hate it when he says its a bad car), when his hasn't, and that the Audi A4 is the best car in the entire world. Bear in mine he has a 2005 Audi A4 S-Line Quattro saloon/sedan... a petrol... that therefore has no DPF... Well he takes great care of his car, took it in to have cambelt, water pump and oil pump done. Less than 50 miles after leaving the shop the timing chain at the back of the engine snapped (not sure how it works, but seems to have a timing belt on the front and back of the engine, this back one wasn't touched, only the front one) and he now needs an engine rebuild... Karma! 

Callum, assuming all is sorted towards the back end of this week it would be nice to catch up and you could actually check it out this time. I'd be interested to see the performance difference. You've got the larger engine, no turbo lag and a couple more bhp (I'm 229 vs 237) but I have AWD. I remember we had a few different things, you have the help/manual in the infotainment that I don't and a couple of the buttons differ from GP0 to GP1. I've got a dashcam too and remembered you have your wired up into the overhead light assembly, so was wondering if I could take a peek at that to see if I can wire mine up the same?

Guy


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## CallumCarr (Oct 15, 2018)

GuyPaddick said:


> Callum, assuming all is sorted towards the back end of this week it would be nice to catch up and you could actually check it out this time. I'd be interested to see the performance difference. You've got the larger engine, no turbo lag and a couple more bhp (I'm 229 vs 237) but I have AWD. I remember we had a few different things, you have the help/manual in the infotainment that I don't and a couple of the buttons differ from GP0 to GP1. I've got a dashcam too and remembered you have your wired up into the overhead light assembly, so was wondering if I could take a peek at that to see if I can wire mine up the same?
> 
> Guy


I'm sure it'll be worth the wait when it's back to normal. They're great cars but you've just unfortunately had some bad luck over the last couple of months. 

Yes i'd be interested to see if there is much difference too. My only experiecne of a Phaeton has been my one so it'll be interesting to see what the differences are. 

I'm up for a few tests to see what the performance differences are too although if I lose, I may have to blame my dodgy torque converter for now :laugh:

I'll ask my dad how he wired the dash cam up as it was there when I got the car from him; he said it was a simple install though and it's completely inconspicuous.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

CallumCarr said:


> I'm sure it'll be worth the wait when it's back to normal. They're great cars but you've just unfortunately had some bad luck over the last couple of months.
> 
> Yes i'd be interested to see if there is much difference too. My only experiecne of a Phaeton has been my one so it'll be interesting to see what the differences are.
> 
> ...


I'm really looking forward to it, that's for sure, and yours is the only other one I've been in too. Mine breaking hasn't shook my faith at all though, I'll finally have a perfect working Phaeton this week!! Next step is the remote for the parking heater.

Parkers specs says mine has a faster 0-60 time, but it does surprise me. I have a rear facing camera aswell in mine so I'll need to run that wire from the top of the rear window into the dash cam, but I should be able to hide the wire above the doors. If not, I can go low, under the passenger seat and round the A pillar or something. I'll work it out I'm sure.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If you're interested in performance, I'd highly recommend the paddle shifter retrofit. Technically it's the same as using the shifter in manual mode, but in practice it makes a huge difference to the driving experience. Great for cornering, too. It's also a very simple procedure to fit them.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi Guy - I've come to this late - and it looks like you're nearly there with the fixes - so that's great. Couple of things caught my eye. I'm not sure if you did replace the LH battery or not? I don't think you did... but anyway whether or not, if it is well discharged an overnight charge won't do it - more like 60 hours in my experience and with the appropriate smart charger for AGM batteries. A healthy battery maybe faster. And I think the snowflake symbol on chargers signifies two things - 1 is the only setting that should be used for AGM batteries and 2 it is the one to use for ordinary lead/acid batteries when the temperature is below freezing.

The other thing that struck me was that when my DPF was playing up (faulty pressure sensor rather than being actually clogged) it was the glow plug symbol that came on - in fact on the GP1 3lt V6 TDI I don't think there are any other MIL or engine lights. My GP0 V10 did have both the glow plug light and the engine warning light. But as far as I remember the V6 only had the one light. Might be worth checking what the handbook says... I'd trust it more than my memory. But I am not unsure that the DPF problem lit the glow plug light.

One last thing - there is no ECU at address 11 on the V6 engines - the second ECU is only required/installed for 8 or more pots.

Hope it all comes together!

Regards

M


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

I did end up replacing the battery, although I had the old one charged it discharged very quickly so got that done, so both batteries have been replaced in the last 4 months. I do have lights on the dash for Glow Plugs, Check Engine and DPF, as the CEL was on constantly and the Glow Plugs was flashing, ands the DPF light came on a while ago but had been off for ages.

Thanks for the clarification around module 11, interesting they use dual ECU, imagine that would be an interesting one to tune no?


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Invisiblewave, its one near the top of my list, really want the paddle shifters. My one issue is that they look like cheap quality, just two little plastic stalks essentially, so my thoughts were to reupholster the steering wheel and also get the paddles upholstered in matching leather to make them feel a bit more fitting.


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

GuyPaddick said:


> I did end up replacing the battery, although I had the old one charged it discharged very quickly so got that done, so both batteries have been replaced in the last 4 months. I do have lights on the dash for Glow Plugs, Check Engine and DPF, as the CEL was on constantly and the Glow Plugs was flashing, ands the DPF light came on a while ago but had been off for ages.
> 
> Thanks for the clarification around module 11, interesting they use dual ECU, imagine that would be an interesting one to tune no?


Seems my 60 year old RAM is defective.... I do now remember the CEL..... but it was certainly all different between the GP0 and the GP1. GP0 didn't have swirly flaps or DPF. Had temperamental turbos though...although no lights for that. But the GP0 did a couple of times when on the overrun locked down in 2, going down hill, light up every damn light on the cluster and left me with flashing CEL and others permanently lit. Quite scary - but they all went away in VCDS... but you had to remember to reset them in both ECUs - which is why I particularly remember address 11. Never bottomed it but the fault code at the back of it was a loss of comms between many of the controllers.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

GuyPaddick said:


> Invisiblewave, its one near the top of my list, really want the paddle shifters. My one issue is that they look like cheap quality, just two little plastic stalks essentially, so my thoughts were to reupholster the steering wheel and also get the paddles upholstered in matching leather to make them feel a bit more fitting.


They are the same ones the Bentley Continental uses. 

I got some along with the stalks, the controller and the clockspring in a whole assembly in a Bentley box from a member here. Unfortunately the clock spring and controller are for Continentals without a heated steering wheel so the only parts usable to me were the paddle shifters and the stalks. I sold the paddle shifters to another member because I just needed the controller. 

If you think the paddle shifters look cheap on a VW, you'd really want to make them look more posh if you had a Continental.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> They are the same ones the Bentley Continental uses.
> 
> I got some along with the stalks, the controller and the clockspring in a whole assembly in a Bentley box from a member here. Unfortunately the clock spring and controller are for Continentals without a heated steering wheel so the only parts usable to me were the paddle shifters and the stalks. I sold the paddle shifters to another member because I just needed the controller.
> 
> If you think the paddle shifters look cheap on a VW, you'd really want to make them look more posh if you had a Continental.


Of course, the Bentley part numbers are different but so are the Touareg part numbers. 

If you do get paddles upholstered, make sure to use thin leather so they can move freely. 

I plan to get a steering wheel reupholstered myself and hope I can find a local place that can do a good job.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Of course, the Bentley part numbers are different but so are the Touareg part numbers.
> 
> If you do get paddles upholstered, make sure to use thin leather so they can move freely.
> 
> I plan to get a steering wheel reupholstered myself and hope I can find a local place that can do a good job.


Interesting, when I looked on 7zap both the Touareg and Phaeton had the same part number, the Touareg's one started with 3D indicating its a Phaeton part. Maybe I misread.

I didn't know the Bentley ones were the same though. I've just looked on ebay and found a few controllers with the paddles and indication/wiper stalks attached. Is it possible to move the whole unit across so I also had the Bentley indicator stalks do you know? Phaeton and Touareg ones were hard top find without buying new parts from aftermarket sources, all looking at £250+.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

GuyPaddick said:


> Invisiblewave, its one near the top of my list, really want the paddle shifters. My one issue is that they look like cheap quality, just two little plastic stalks essentially, so my thoughts were to reupholster the steering wheel and also get the paddles upholstered in matching leather to make them feel a bit more fitting.


Plastic? They're not plastic. I do have concerns over the quality of the micro-switches in them though. Once they're on, you don't even really see them, which is strange since they're relatively large.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

They're identical on the Touareg, I have T-reg paddles installed on mine, they're ~$350 new. Not sure which controller you're talking about, they plug straight in, nothing else required (at least on the 2004-2006 models).


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

invisiblewave said:


> Plastic? They're not plastic. I do have concerns over the quality of the micro-switches in them though. Once they're on, you don't even really see the, which is strange since they're relatively large.


Oh, are they metal!? I've not had any hands on experience, just seen the pictures and they looked like plastic, assumed they matched the indicator stalks. Its not something that I'm prepared to part with £300 for at the moment, but if a set come up on eBay or a salvaged one with them comes up ill see if I can grab them.

You threw me off with the "T-reg" abbreviation, I read it as T Registration which was the license plate prefix for 1999 cars in the UK haha


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

GuyPaddick said:


> Interesting, when I looked on 7zap both the Touareg and Phaeton had the same part number, the Touareg's one started with 3D indicating its a Phaeton part. Maybe I misread.
> 
> I didn't know the Bentley ones were the same though. I've just looked on ebay and found a few controllers with the paddles and indication/wiper stalks attached. Is it possible to move the whole unit across so I also had the Bentley indicator stalks do you know? Phaeton and Touareg ones were hard top find without buying new parts from aftermarket sources, all looking at £250+.


I thought the Touareg paddles had a different prefix but I may be thinking about the trim piece with the hole for the paddles. 


Yes, you can move everything over. Bentley stalks were an upgrade some people have done. I would have to grab all of the Bentley trim pieces if I did it. 


As I found out, the Bentley clock spring and controller may or may not have the pins for the heated steering wheel. You would think they would use the same controller and clock spring with everything wired already. I found out the hard way by swapping it all over and then my heated wheel didn't work. Not only that but swapping the controller introduces a whole bunch of problems. I thought I killed my Phaeton. 

See the first post of the heated steering wheel retrofit thread:

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...ofit-G85-steering-angle-sensor-adaptation-FAQ


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> They're identical on the Touareg, I have T-reg paddles installed on mine, they're ~$350 new. Not sure which controller you're talking about, they plug straight in, nothing else required (at least on the 2004-2006 models).


He's talking about the whole assembly with the controller, the stalks, the clockspring and the paddles. It all slides off the top of the column and is held in place with an Allen head set screw.

The Bentley part number is 3W0953507AC but I don't know if that includes paddles. 










That picture came from here where I got the part number:

http://www.alpineperformance.com/be...-gtc-flying-spur-stalk-indicator-light-switch

I cannot find a VW parts diagram with all of the parts screwed together in a neat little package.

If you put "3D0953507" or "3D0953507R" in an eBay search, you can see the same thing but I didn't see any with paddles attached.


The box mine came in says 3W095307R and did include paddles.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Oh, yeah if you put "3W0953507" in an eBay search you can find used Bentley units with paddles. There are also a few paddles by themselves for around $200.00 and this auction:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kombischal...=item5457664c48:g:9qUAAOSwNDJahx7P:rk:14:pf:0

As I said before, the controller and the clock spring may not have wiring for a heated wheel so I wouldn't buy the whole assembly - again.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Right okay. What exactly is the clock spring out of curiosity? I've never heard of that before. Appreciate you sending over all the information and part numbers, I've added the Bentley paddle part numbers into my spreadsheet of upcoming mods to do... Its getting quite long now! I don't have the heated steering wheel so I'll probably order the paddles on their own. The other idea would be to get the whole part with heating pins and then buy the heated steering wheel, which would be ideal, but a little costly at current.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

GuyPaddick said:


> Right okay. What exactly is the clock spring out of curiosity? I've never heard of that before. Appreciate you sending over all the information and part numbers, I've added the Bentley paddle part numbers into my spreadsheet of upcoming mods to do... Its getting quite long now! I don't have the heated steering wheel so I'll probably order the paddles on their own. The other idea would be to get the whole part with heating pins and then buy the heated steering wheel, which would be ideal, but a little costly at current.


I had never heard of a clock spring in relation to a car before I bought a Phaeton. The first time I owned a car with an air bag was my first Phaeton. I guess I didn't need to know about clock springs before. 

I believe the common term for it is "clock spring" because it looks like a main spring. It contains a coiled up ribbon cable for the airbag so there is no chance of it losing contact like a standard horn contact ring could. 

Here's a picture of a new Phaeton clock spring:








You pull the red handle that looks like a hand grenade pin before you install the steering wheel. I accidentally broke the one on my Bentley clock spring.

7Zap calls the "clock spring" a "cancelling ring with slip ring and steering sensor"

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/phaeton/phae/2008-631/9/953-953050/#3


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I believe the common term for it is "clock spring" because it looks like a main spring. It contains a coiled up ribbon cable for the airbag so there is no chance of it losing contact like a standard horn contact ring could.



I just did a search for "car clock spring" and found this picture of one opened up. From the URL, it looks like this one belongs to a Ford Taurus / Mercury Sable:


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I just did a search for "car clock spring" and found this picture of one opened up. From the URL, it looks like this one belongs to a Ford Taurus / Mercury Sable:


Oh wow, cool piece of tech! Thanks for sharing. So if I were to do the upgrade to the heated steering wheel and also paddle shifters, I would need the heated wheel itself, air bag (if it comes separately to the rest of the wheel), and preferably the Bentley paddle shifters/Indicator/clock spring unit all in one like your image in post #53, with the heating controller present. Right? I knew paddle shifters and heated steering wheel need to be activated in VCDS, would they be the only parts or would the Bentley indicators need coding in too?

You said you'd have to grab all the Bentley trims if you did it, is that a physical requirement to fit them in (like the housing for the indicators to protrude from), or just a personal preference of other swappable Bentley parts? In which case, what else is there that can be moved across?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

GuyPaddick said:


> Oh wow, cool piece of tech! Thanks for sharing. So if I were to do the upgrade to the heated steering wheel and also paddle shifters, I would need the heated wheel itself, air bag (if it comes separately to the rest of the wheel), and preferably the Bentley paddle shifters/Indicator/clock spring unit all in one like your image in post #53, with the heating controller present. Right? I knew paddle shifters and heated steering wheel need to be activated in VCDS, would they be the only parts or would the Bentley indicators need coding in too?
> 
> You said you'd have to grab all the Bentley trims if you did it, is that a physical requirement to fit them in (like the housing for the indicators to protrude from), or just a personal preference of other swappable Bentley parts? In which case, what else is there that can be moved across?


You're welcome. As I said, I had never heard the term "clock spring" in regards to cars until I owed a Phaeton. 


I would read the heated steering wheel thread on what to do if you do decide to add a heated steering wheel. 


I have two W12s that came with heated steering wheels. I know my installed clock springs and controllers have the pins for heated wheels. The part number of my controllers is 3D0 953 549 C but I'd have to take one of my steering wheels and the column shrouds off to verify the part number for the clock spring. If I remember correctly, the one for heated wheels has two terminals in the little connector and my Bentley one doesn't have terminals in that connector. 

The wires for the heated steering wheel are also discussed in the paddle shifter retrofit thread. 

You could reuse your existing air bag. That has nothing to do with whether the wheel is heated or not. The wires for the heated wheel come from the wheel itself and plug into the clock spring connector. 

The reason I would want all the Bentley goodies is for the stalks to not look out of place. If I installed them they would be the only switches with chrome on them.

The Bentley ZAB has chrome around the big knob, the Bentley steering column memory switch has chrome around it, the Bentley seats switches have chrome around them, the Bentley mirror switch has a knurled chrome knob and the Bentley window switches have chrome on them. If you buy a Bentley cigarette lighter or "torch", it has a knurled chrome knob. Of course, the "chrome" is just chrome plated plastic which is probably a safety requirement. 

By "Bentley indicators" do you mean the turn signal and wiper stalks? No, as far as I know, no coding is needed. 

There are some members who have installed all of the Bentley chrome goodies. (Search the threads for "Bentley".) I don't recall any coding required. The stalks are just switches. All of the magic and coding takes place in the controllers.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

So, update time, and time for a rant!

2 weeks ago (Fri 8th Feb) I took the car over to Halfords to have the DPF regen completed. I normally would not go to Halfords but it was the only AA Warranty approved workshop that didn't have a 1+ week wait time. Halfords said if I took the car over on the Friday morning they would carry out the regen and I could pick it up that afternoon. I called them at 4pm to confirm it will be ready for me to pick up as I wasn't heading in that direction after work, and its 45 minutes the other way. They said it would be and would call me if not. I arrive there and its not been carried out. They say the DPF needs to be replaced, so they have to make contact with the AA Warranty, confirm details and order a part in.

Long story short there was no update for the next 11 days. I called them Wednesday for an update and they told me they needed to order in a new DPF Map Sensor (G450). I already had one of these in the car and the workshop doing the body repairs checked it out and confirmed it didn't need replacing. Halfords however say it does and I have to pay £250 for this sensor which is ludicrous, and the sensor itself isn't covered by warranty.

They don't allow me to take the car away to have it done myself or elsewhere as the warranty process has begun and refuse to use my part that is already sat unopened on the passenger seat, so a £250 expense for something that I already have and does not need replacing.

To follow from that, they haven't called me once so far despite saying every time on the phone that they will call me with an update. I've called up 5 times in total and had an update every time, not impressed.

This then continues. For reference I keep very good care of my cars, wash them regularly, machine polish them every couple of months, so the Phaetons bodywork is in near mint condition aside from a small patch of rust on the passenger door where it was clipped by a seat belt in the past, but I will have that repaired soon. I went in to Halfords to collect some things I needed that were in the car this weekend, had my spare key and so went round the side where the car was. I find that the car is not locked, as had its side lights left on meaning the brand new battery they fitted on day 1 has already been drained, and its parked under a tree where its been littered with pollen, sap and some pleasant surprises from the birds. 

I've raised a formal complaint with their head office over various aspects. The car being left unlocked and treated like trash, being overcharged massively, not being updated at all despite being promised over and over that they would, and the completely unacceptable time frame. I'm debating adding into there the flat battery and requesting they replace it with the exact same one I bought, or refund me for it.

Has any of you had a similar experience with Halfords? I try to avoid them like the plague for reasons exactly like those above but in this instance I didn't really have a choice.


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Never had any personal experience, apart from getting some new plates for a car..
They are notorious, but mainly due to British television I watched.. 

This is horrible service. Seem to me employees don't or are incapable of caring about other peoples stuff. 
Good job you wrote a formal complaint.
I would also inform your warranty, as they might benefit from this feedback. Perhaps they are kind enough to show you to a different shop with better values.


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Melvivio said:


> Never had any personal experience, apart from getting some new plates for a car..
> They are notorious, but mainly due to British television I watched..
> 
> This is horrible service. Seem to me employees don't or are incapable of caring about other peoples stuff.
> ...


Yeah I've sent the AA the full complaint so they can see the service of the brands they are directing their customer to... of lack of... I was reading an article earlier where a test car was taken to Halfords for a full service, with 20 known faults that would fail and MOT. They failed to diagnose 11 of the 20 and sent the car back out as fixed. They got fined ~£50k.

I've put on the complaint a few things I want compensation for. The travel to and from work (they don't know I'm driving a Passat at the moment so cheaper anyway lol), the effect on work as again, they don't know about the Passat so as far as they know I am getting the train. I see customers almost daily so need a car. The price charged for the part and all the in-between parts regarding if need it.

The next thing, which I have complained about, is that they said the Main Exhaust Pressure Sensor needs to be replaced and are charging me £160 for it. I thought this was odd as I didn't think my car had one, and I am right. I spoke with VW who confirmed the only pressure sensor in my exhaust system is the DPF pressure sensor (G450). 

So it now seems Halfords are charging me for work that doesn't even exist...


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

GuyPaddick said:


> Yeah I've sent the AA the full complaint so they can see the service of the brands they are directing their customer to... of lack of... I was reading an article earlier where a test car was taken to Halfords for a full service, with 20 known faults that would fail and MOT. They failed to diagnose 11 of the 20 and sent the car back out as fixed. They got fined ~£50k.
> 
> I've put on the complaint a few things I want compensation for. The travel to and from work (they don't know I'm driving a Passat at the moment so cheaper anyway lol), the effect on work as again, they don't know about the Passat so as far as they know I am getting the train. I see customers almost daily so need a car. The price charged for the part and all the in-between parts regarding if need it.
> 
> ...


Update. Car is fixed and ready for collection. Took them 20 days to replace a DPF but hey ho, we're there now.


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

GuyPaddick said:


> Update. Car is fixed and ready for collection. Took them 20 days to replace a DPF but hey ho, we're there now.


Hi.
I have the same issue with my P. 
Flashing glow plug light, no limp mode, runs fine, no cruiser.
I'm trying to sum your up your fix, but have a hard time to do it.
So let me ask: 
To fix this you replaced the G450, diesel injectors, glow plug and DPF?
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

Hey Gwiken,

In the end all they replaced was the DPF. They initially had some issues with the G450 sensor and ordered in a new one, and then another new one before they realised it wasn't an issue with the sensor itself.

The new DPF cost ~£550-600 but was covered under warranty. They needed some additional diagnostics to reset the codes which took them a couple of days to get hold of but yeah the only issue was the DPF itself, once that was replaced and codes reset all was well. The G450 sensor, injectors and glow plugs weren't changed in the end so I still have them saved for when they need it, apart from injectors which I never bought.

Hope this helps,

Guy


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

GuyPaddick said:


> Hey Gwiken,
> 
> In the end all they replaced was the DPF. They initially had some issues with the G450 sensor and ordered in a new one, and then another new one before they realised it wasn't an issue with the sensor itself.
> 
> ...


Hi Guy.
Thanks for sharing, it helps a lot. 
One question, did you have a specific DTC that pointed to the DPF?

Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## GuyPaddick (Jun 20, 2018)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi Guy.
> Thanks for sharing, it helps a lot.
> One question, did you have a specific DTC that pointed to the DPF?
> 
> ...


Hi Gwiken,

I don't have acess to VCDS all the time as it belongs to a friends neighbour so I was scanning with an app called OBDeleven which is like VCDS but a Bluetooth dongle and app on your phone for ~£40. It wasn't giving me the codes for the engine modules though as you can see where I have posted the log further up.

I got VCDS near the end before taking it to be fixed and from memory there was a code but I'm not sure if that came from the scan log or if I went into the DPF screens in VCDS. I think it was the latter though. Happy to help you where possible here. 

Guy


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

GuyPaddick said:


> Hi Gwiken,
> 
> I don't have acess to VCDS all the time as it belongs to a friends neighbour so I was scanning with an app called OBDeleven which is like VCDS but a Bluetooth dongle and app on your phone for ~£40. It wasn't giving me the codes for the engine modules though as you can see where I have posted the log further up.
> 
> ...




Hi.

Thanks Guy very much for your input.

Maybe anyone of you guys have a good idea.
The problem started with the cruiser lost, then after a couple of minutes the P didn't want to shift gear properly.
So I had to do that manually.
Then again after a couple of minutes, the glow plug light started flashing.
No limp mode, drove it home carefully at about 55 mph for about 70 miles.
The idle speed is around 900 RPM, and jumps a bit.
Starts fine, runs fine.

My concern is the G81 sensor that's is shorted to GND according to scan.
Does anyone knows where it's located, and how it looks?

Here is my last scan:
Sunday,03,March,2019,16:06:40:52065
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x86
VCDS Version: 18.9.1.0
Data version: 20190114 DS296.0
www.Ross-Tech.com

Dealer/Shop Name: Wiken
Workshop Code: 001 01065 000065

VIN: WVWZZZ3DZ78002006 License Plate: DPH169
Mileage: 239480km-148805mi Repair Order: 


Chassis Type: 3D (3D - VW Phaeton (2002 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWZZZ3DZ78002006 Mileage: 239480km-148805miles
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Address 01: Engine Labels: 059-907-401-ASB.clb
Part No SW: 3D0 907 401 A HW: 8E0 907 401 AB
Component: 3.0L V6TDI G001AG 0010 
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZ3Z0F1519600
Coding: 0011773
Shop #: WSC 12334 792 394757
VCID: 1D366D37C77AAFA2D6-513E

4 Faults Found:
004999 - Control Module Malfunction - Internal Altitude/Pressure Sensor 
P1387 - 002 - 
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 66.3 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 1.0 %
Voltage: 14.44 V
Voltage: 0.000 V
Absolute Pres.: 683.4 mbar

000386 - Fuel Temp. Sensor A (G81) 
P0182 - 001 - Short to GND
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 66.3 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 1.0 %
Voltage: 14.52 V
Pressure: 284.0 bar
Temperature: 27.9°C

008580 - Engine Coolant Temp Sensor on Radiator Outlet (G83) 
P2184 - 000 - Signal too Low
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 66.3 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 1.0 %
Voltage: 14.52 V
Bin. Bits: 11001100
Temperature: 27.9°C

000274 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor (G42) 
P0112 - 001 - Signal too Low
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 66.3 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Voltage: 14.52 V
Absolute Pres.: 969.0 mbar
Temperature: -3.6°C
Temperature: 27.9°C

Readiness: 0 0 1 1 1


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## _Taz_ (Jan 8, 2016)

Glad you got i fixed mate.

Shame you had all that aggro' with Halfrauds...

I'd never touch em, but as you are under an AA warranty, hey ho.

As for injectors, they only go if abused, mine were all goosed, as I reckon the previous owner did something bad or simply never changed the filter.

But they are EASY to change ( deffo' less than 3 hours work ), and you don't strictly need to code, although this does give the ECU some pre-coded trim settings... the Car will still work without coding no issues.

I'm sure that Halfrauds charged for extra stuff as they don't know what they were doing ( from the sounds of it ), typical warranty procedure, just change everything in the vicinity !

Glad you got the car back up n' running.


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

*Measured values.*

Hi I have now looked for cable problems in the engine compartment, both above and under.
Found no external damage of any harnesses. But I haven't opened them up, maybe that's a bone head move on my part.

I have been worried that the coal content of the DPF is above 68 grams, 
so I measured group 100, 102 and 104 in the Engine:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine (3D0 907 401 A)

13:12:30 Group 007: Temperatures
72.0°C Fuel Temperature (G81)
42.3°C Oil Temperature 
108.9°C Intake Air Temperature (G72)
42.3°C Coolant Temperature (G62)

13:12:30 Group 104: Diesel Particle Filter (DPF)
0.00 Particle Filter Oil Ash Volume
0.0 Particle Filter Carbon Mass (calc.)
0.0 Particle Filter Carbon Mass (act.)
0 km Mileage 

13:12:30 Group 102: Diesel Particle Filter (DPF)
551.0°C Temperature prior Precatalytic Converter
-53.1°C Temperature 
0.0 mbar Particle Filter Different. Pressure
0.0 mbar Particle Filter Offset Different. Pressure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But this can point to a cable problem.

Questions that pops up are:
Do the G450 measure the temperature as well?
Are the G450 and the G81 sensors in the same cable stem?
If a fuse has gone, can this be the symptom?

I have bought a fuel temp sensor(G81) and a DPF sensor(G450).

After DTC cleared again:
Address 01: DTCs cleared
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Address 01: Engine Labels: 059-907-401-ASB.clb
Control Module Part Number: 3D0 907 401 A HW: 8E0 907 401 AB
Component and/or Version: 3.0L V6TDI G001AG 0010
Software Coding: 0011773
Work Shop Code: WSC 12334 792 394757
VCID: 1D366D37C77AAFA2D6-5122
4 Faults Found:

004999 - Control Module Malfunction - Internal Altitude/Pressure Sensor 
P1387 - 001 - 
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 85.8 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 1.0 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Voltage: 4.980 V
Absolute Pres.: 683.4 mbar

000387 - Fuel Temp. Sensor A (G81) 
P0183 - 001 - Open or Short to Plus
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 85.8 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 1.0 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Pressure: 291.1 bar
Temperature: 22.5°C

008581 - Engine Coolant Temp Sensor on Radiator Outlet (G83) 
P2185 - 000 - Signal too High
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 85.8 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Duty Cycle: 1.0 %
Voltage: 14.21 V
Bin. Bits: 00001111
Temperature: 22.5°C

000275 - Intake Air Temp. Sensor (G42) 
P0113 - 001 - Signal too High
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 239483 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 756 /min
Torque: 85.8 Nm
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Voltage: 14.21 V
Absolute Pres.: 958.8 mbar
Temperature: 0.0°C
Temperature: 22.5°C

Respectfully thanks in advance for any input or ideas. 
\Wiken


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Hi.
Now I have replaced both fuel temperature sensor and the diesel particulate filter sensor.
The last one was a challenge. 
I have reset the DTC's and measured block 100, 102 and 104 in the engine. 
104 says zero on all places and temperature in 102 says -53°C.
Measured 007 too, and air inlet temperature reads 108 °C.

So it looks like a cable harness has gone bad.

My idea is that all these sensors G450, G81, G42 all ends up in the same place or harness.

I have no Elsa, so I can't see the electrical, nor the placement in the P.
In Sweden we can't buy Elsa at the dealer, they said no we don't sell it to private persons. 
No respect at all.

Can someone help me or guide me to this info?

Thanks in advance.

Wiken 



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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Would this be of any use to you Wiken ?

https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showHome.do

I haven't tried it myself, but it looks like you can "buy" time for the repair manuals.


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Would this be of any use to you Wiken ?
> 
> https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showHome.do
> 
> I haven't tried it myself, but it looks like you can "buy" time for the repair manuals.


How interesting. 
I'll check it out. 
Thanks.

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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Hi.
I'm desperately looking for cable problems. 








Wiken 

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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

I have today and yesterday opened up the harness and checked about 9 feet, with no result.

I had the feeling first, that the piece of harness closest to the bulkhead and maybe 10 inches towards the engine was the epicenter of the problem, because that piece is common for all 3 sensors that gives a DTC.

But I can't find anything wrong.

This is really a p.i.t.a.

Do I have to lift the engine out of my P?
Wiken 

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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

PanEuropean said a few years back that if the brake switch is malfunctioning, it may be possible to start the car without pressing the brake pedal, due to the starter interlock protection is not present. 

I had to try...guess what... it started without pressing the pedal. 

When this happend, from the beginning, the P disengaged the cruiser, and didn't want to shift gear, the car thought I was breaking.

Engine management system don't like implausible signal from the brake switch, and starts flashing the glow plug light on a diesel.
Probably it will turn on the engine light on a gas P.
The limp mode some owners reports, could be that it lowers the power to match what the brakes can handle, also according to PanEuropean.

My problem is the brake switch. 

Time to order one.

Wiken 

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## bentleypartsusa (Jul 19, 2019)

Two weeks ago my glow plug light started flashing, the car went into limp mode, and the MIL light came on. Flatbedded it to the dealer, turned out the wiring to the wastegate solenoid on the fire wall was too short when it was installed, and one yanked out or broke under the strain.


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

How interesting.
Wiken 

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## JCJ (Nov 26, 2013)

My car suffered from dpf warning light. The garage replaced the pressure sensor, forced a dpf regent and now it’s fine. It was surging a bit when I picked it up and the fuel consumption was around 20 mpg but soon fixed itself. I guess it was completing the regen?


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