# Looking for info on self-tuning with Nefmoto/TunerPro/etc.



## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

So I am currently running a Motoza Stage 1 tune and will be upgrading to Stage 1+ at some point, but I'm upgrading bit by bit or at least I would like to. Currently, I have the injectors I need as well as a test pipe that I will be using with a modified stock cat (to make the openings 3") and will be upgrading my K03 to a K03S with port and polish. However, Motoza won't allow me to upgrade until all parts are installed and I'd rather get things in as I go. Dave has been pretty responsive to my requests to changes (such as changing over to a VR6 MAF housing) but it takes a little while to get changes implemented and I don't want to wait every time I want to install something. This will especially be frustrating once I start piecing together a BT kit.

With all of this in mind I would like to try my hand at Nefmoto/TunerPro and custom tuning my own setup. I was originally planning on buying Maestro once I had the funds for it but if I can avoid spending 800+ on my tuning (and have access to everything my ECU has to offer instead of just a portion of it) then that would obviously be a bonus.

What I would like to know is: What are the best sources for information on the various maps and tuning our ECUs? I know the Nefmoto forum has a lot of info and I've seen some threads on here with a lot of info but I wanted to see if you guys had any good guides to understanding the various maps and functions of the ME7. I will probably try to pick up a used ECU to mess with (keeping my Motoza file intact on the other one while I mess around with the spare) and play with all of the settings over the next few months as I build my knowledge base. 

Thanks, everybody.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

do the parts first. rods, clutch, etc etc..then go software when you go BT and drop in your injectors. going from k03 to a k03s isn't going to be some amazing jump in power at all.


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

I would like to learn how to tune and I'd rather learn now while I'm still on a stock turbo then when I'm running something much larger. Also, I have plans to add in WMI and like I said before I don't wanna deal with waiting for someone else to tune for it. And if I want to go even more aggressive then motoza's tune (which I will) then I would like to have control.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Sounds like what you're looking for is the ME7 documentation. ME7 is very well documented and very complicated. I don't have the docs, but they're around. If you want to become a tuner who can do it all from the ground up all the tools are around to do it. However, the learning curve is steep. You've got to be dedicated to this idea if you want to make it happen.

This idea you have is similar to you getting your CCNA because you don't want to pay a guy to program your router for you. Doable, but not trivial.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

CCNA/NP lol I had that :laugh: :face palm: What a waste of money.

To topic... if you want to actually learn to tune from scratch it's going to take YEARS not days or months. 

I started tinkering with it when I got my Jetta a few years ago and never really did anything with it. I bought Maestro because I didn't have enough faith in my own work, and somehow it all kinda clicked. 

Sure, I can make files that work now. Sure, there's certain things I've perfected. But, I'd still prefer using something else. I love Maestro, but it's very limited and the only reason I've been going to the other side. 

My suggestion, buy Maestro. Learn HOW to tune a car to make power, to make boost (in the way you want, linear, or violent), to not pull timing yet have a good amount, etc, etc, etc.

The tools / SW you really need to use Nefmoto to flash will cost you the same or more than Maestro. 

You should have (need) a bench flashing setup for boot mode ($100-$1000)
Proper Software with Checksum Checker ($150-$2000+)
Proper hardware for flashing (cheap) ($15)
Extra ECU's 2-3 ($200)
etc.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

If you are interested in "etc..", this is what i am currently working on:


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Nice sim!! 

Is that for OEM me7 or to use with say a roadrunner or something if the like.

Totally interested in this :thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

that is beautiful.


meastro and such things are more thn what most users need without having a dedicated raecar and some engineering back ground. learning is great it helps share in our community. but don't push too hard too fast.
:beer:


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Thanks for all of the advice. Based on this I think I will just suck it up and save up for Maestro. In the meantime I guess I will just wait until all of my Stage 1+ ducks are in a row and have Motoza tune it until I have Maestro.

Thanks :beer:.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

This is the tuning and setup software (on windows) for a ME7.5 (pin) compatible ECU. Absolutely plug and play for our cars (1.8Ts with DBW, VVT, wideband), lots of features (high speed logging (has internal datalogging memory too), more presets, flex fuel, motorsport stuffs (launch, als), etcetc...). Its been in the making for over 4 years now, it will be introduced this summer (so i cant tell you all details yet, im just spreading the word around, you know ). Actually i already did mention it here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5911983-Oops!-Something-went-wrong


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

*Re: cold outside.....*

Do want

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> CCNA/NP lol I had that :laugh: :face palm: What a waste of money.
> 
> To topic... if you want to actually learn to tune from scratch it's going to take YEARS not days or months.
> 
> ...


Extra ecus are $75 a pop.

Tunerpro is free
Mpps v12 clone is ~$50. If your not a pro, you dont need pro tools.
Blue vag kkl cable is $20.
Bench setup is cheap. Ecu plug, obd plug few odds and ends etc. $100?



Sim said:


> This is the tuning and setup software (on windows) for a ME7.5 (pin) compatible ECU. Absolutely plug and play for our cars (1.8Ts with DBW, VVT, wideband), lots of features (high speed logging (has internal datalogging memory too), more presets, flex fuel, motorsport stuffs (launch, als), etcetc...). Its been in the making for over 4 years now, it will be introduced this summer (so i cant tell you all details yet, im just spreading the word around, you know ). Actually i already did mention it here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5911983-Oops!-Something-went-wrong


Can I keep the n249? Lol.

Biggest thing I hate about Maestro is simple, it doesnt use Bosch names so who the **** knows what half of them do.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Dave926 said:


> Can I keep the n249? Lol.


Yes, you can!


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Dave926 said:


> Biggest thing I hate about Maestro is simple, it doesnt use Bosch names so who the **** knows what half of them do.


This is one of the biggest advantages of a standalone: full docs, no guessing!


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim said:


> This is one of the biggest advantages of a standalone: full docs, no guessing!


What is gonna be the ballpark price range (ie is it gonna be similar to Maestro )? Is this related to any previous standalones like Megasquirt or anything like that?


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## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

If $ isn't an issue you can go with a Magneti Marelli ECU. Self tuning, self learning, and cost more than most cars in here are worth(including mine) :laugh:. I do hear that it's the Sh!t though and will be the last ecu you'll ever purchase.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

fed0ra said:


> What is gonna be the ballpark price range (ie is it gonna be similar to Maestro )? Is this related to any previous standalones like Megasquirt or anything like that?


Let me apologize for not giving you an exact answer to this question, yet.



fed0ra said:


> Is this related to any previous standalones like Megasquirt or anything like that?


It is not related to any other standalones in any way. Good news (for us) that is has been developed on (though not solely for) 1.8T-s, so it takes advantage of the DBW (lets say preprogrammed throttle movements for drag racing), utilizes the MAF (if you want for BOV too) so VE is not a question, has similar features like the ME7 (f.eg knock control, adaptation for lambda (short term, long term (add/mul)), idle tps adaptation, protection and diag (open, short gnd/b+) on all outputs, etcetc...) so it is not a "downgrade" by any means. Not torque based!


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim said:


> Let me apologize for not giving you an exact answer to this question, yet.
> 
> 
> 
> It is not related to any other standalones in any way. Good news (for us) that is has been developed on (though not solely for) 1.8T-s, so it takes advantage of the DBW (lets say preprogrammed throttle movements for drag racing), utilizes the MAF (if you want for BOV too) so VE is not a question, has similar features like the ME7 (f.eg knock control, adaptation for lambda (short term, long term (add/mul)), idle tps adaptation, protection and diag (open, short gnd/b+) on all outputs, etcetc...) so it is not a "downgrade" by any means. Not torque based!


Totally fair. I had a feeling you would say that! I will definitely be following updates to this very, very closely. If I'm gonna be paying a 800+ for a new tuning solution then it won't be for a little while (gotta get my suspension buttoned up in the first part of the year) so this will come just in time.

I like the sound of all of that. Keep us updated!


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

I'll buy it off I can afford it! !

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim said:


> Good news (for us) that is has been developed on (though not solely for) 1.8T-s, so it takes advantage of the DBW (lets say preprogrammed throttle movements for drag racing), utilizes the MAF (if you want for BOV too) so VE is not a question, has similar features like the ME7 (f.eg knock control, adaptation for lambda (short term, long term (add/mul)), idle tps adaptation, protection and diag (open, short gnd/b+) on all outputs, etcetc...) so it is not a "downgrade" by any means. Not torque based!


How easy will it be to tune compared to ME7, both through Maestro and Nefmoto/ect.?


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## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

Vegeta Gti said:


> I'll buy it off I can afford it! !
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk



I hear it's about 10-12k for a "nice" setup. The company is no joke.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

ANT THE KNEE said:


> I hear it's about 10-12k for a "nice" setup. The company is no joke.


I guess you mean the marelli one.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

fed0ra said:


> How easy will it be to tune compared to ME7, both through Maestro and Nefmoto/ect.?


Completely different, but i am not the right person who could give you an unbiased opinion . Give me some months and the site will be up with all the info (and demo of the windows software to download).


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

fed0ra said:


> How easy will it be to tune compared to ME7, both through Maestro and Nefmoto/ect.?


Just by the screen shots as well as what little he said, the system will work with over all fuel rather than the torque model that ME7 uses. 

This would make the overall tuning process much easier, and less complicated. 

I'm seriously looking forward to this for my Swap, Where OBD And etc is not needed.


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim,

Just out of curiosity, will you be able to pass emissions with this system (assuming you keep emissions equipment) and will it retain things like A/C? Thanks.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> Just by the screen shots as well as what little he said, the system will work with over all fuel rather than the torque model that ME7 uses.
> 
> This would make the overall tuning process much easier, and less.


Yes. Basically it is load based (which is practically derived from measured or estimated airflow) instead of torque. If a MAF is used (and properly calibrated) the only challenge is to fill the advance map as injection (after setting injector size and dead times) is automatic (according to target lambda). It even can "learn" the VE of the engine and MAF can be removed then. Can work in true speed density mode (using the real manifold pressure instead of the intercooler pressure) too. Boost is similar to ME7 (using PID controller). For idle, you specify RPM (according to ECT) and an advance (im using 4*-6* on the test cars) which it tries to keep by keeping the throttle opened at the right position. Etc, etc, etc...


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

fed0ra said:


> Sim,
> 
> Just out of curiosity, will you be able to pass emissions with this system (assuming you keep emissions equipment) and will it retain things like A/C? Thanks.


AC works, yes! Just like the dials (tacho) and malfunction indicator lights ("analog" and CAN versions, too).
As for emissions: it depends on how thorough the actual inspection is i think. OBD2 support is planned (for later firmwares), so they will be able to retrieve faults.EVAP, SEC.AIR supported.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Sim said:


> Yes. Basically it is load based (which is practically derived from measured or estimated airflow) instead of torque. If a MAF is used (and properly calibrated) the only challenge is to fill the advance map as injection (after setting injector size and dead times) is automatic (according to target lambda). It even can "learn" the VE of the engine and MAF can be removed then. Can work in true speed density mode (using the real manifold pressure instead of the intercooler pressure) too. Boost is similar to ME7 (using PID controller). For idle, you specify RPM (according to ECT) and an advance (im using 4*-6* on the test cars) which it tries to keep by keeping the throttle opened at the right position. Etc, etc, etc...


Sounds interesting to me, 

I've played with a handful of stand alone solutions before working on the ME7 OEM Ecu's due to hardware cost and availability... But they're a pain to work with, and get the correct mind set. 

When you're saying learning, are we talking about adapting maps and settings during run time? if so, would that be implemented to say something like ignition?

Something that has always caught my attention was the knock box/ignition controller on the mid 80's volvos that would basically learn an ignition curve by advancing the timing and listening to the knock sensor. 
it would build its own "map" per-se of its findings and use them until it was reset, Kinda cool.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

So its 10k for this or the magnetti ?

Is it customizable. Like for my swap I can add or delete things like with a life racing or vi-pec system? 

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Vegeta Gti said:


> So its 10k for this or the magnetti ?
> 
> Is it customizable. Like for my swap I can add or delete things like with a life racing or vi-pec system?
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


The one i am working on WILL NOT cost $10k!
Customizable? Yes thats the point .


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> Something that has always caught my attention was the knock box/ignition controller on the mid 80's volvos that would basically learn an ignition curve by advancing the timing and listening to the knock sensor.
> it would build its own "map" per-se of its findings and use them until it was reset, Kinda cool.


Yes, there are numerous adaptation maps in it, which can be analyzed later by the tuner (to make the necessary changes in the corresponding maps) and/or these adaptation maps could be used on the fly by the ECU itself, too. As for ignition "self" tuning: there already is something similar in it, though not exactly the same.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

> and settings during run time? if so, would that be implemented to say something like ignition?


Yes, fundamental maps can be edited during run time (two of them at the same time).


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## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

Sim said:


> I guess you mean the marelli one.


Correct, I'm talking about 10k for the Marelli setup. From what I've been told it figures everything out for you on it's own. Number of injectors, type of injector , number of cylinders, you name it, it'll do it. There's a reason why f1 uses them among the many other sanctioned racing organizations.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Cool, 

I'll be watching your progress.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

AmIdYfReAk said:


> Cool,
> 
> I'll be watching your progress.


Will keep all of you updated!


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

groggory said:


> This idea you have is similar to you getting your CCNA because you don't want to pay a guy to program your router for you. Doable, but not trivial.





DMVDUB said:


> CCNA/NP lol I had that :laugh: :face palm: What a waste of money.



I have a CCNP and I still don't understand the half of ME7 :screwy:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

DougLoBue said:


> I have a CCNP and I still don't understand the half of ME7 :screwy:


It was just a comparison dude. He's saying overdoing it.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

DougLoBue said:


> I have a CCNP and I still don't understand the half of ME7 :screwy:


Lol
Zooom


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

DMVDUB said:


> It was just a comparison dude. He's saying overdoing it.


Oh yeah I get it, I was just commenting that ME7 is complicated!


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Just a little teaser


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim said:


> Just a little teaser


Looking good!

And Jamiroquai! I can dig it.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)




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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

:beer::beer:


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## PernellGTI (Jan 1, 2010)

this is great... Want to see more.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Having fun on the local drag race (street legal category).
2002 Seat Ibiza Cupra (FWD) 1.8 20VT with K03/K04 hybrid on E85 and Ignitron ECU featuring:
- Gear selective rev. limiter
- Gear selective boost mapping
- (Silent) launch control and ALS
- Shift light (triggered by rear wheel ABS sensor)

13.7 @ 177km/h (low traction on stock 195/45s)


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## GolfPuttPutt (Sep 27, 2013)

Sim said:


> Just a little teaser


DUDE! This blew my mind! it's so literal! Cannot wait until this is in my hands!


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim said:


> Having fun on the local drag race (street legal category).
> 2002 Seat Ibiza Cupra (FWD) 1.8 20VT with K03/K04 hybrid on E85 and Ignitron ECU featuring:
> - Gear selective rev. limiter
> - Gear selective boost mapping
> ...


Sweetness. So is "Ignitron" the name of this mystery PnP ECU for the 1.8t? Any updates on when it will come to market, cost, feature list, etc.?


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

fed0ra said:


> Sweetness. So is "Ignitron" the name of this mystery PnP ECU for the 1.8t? Any updates on when it will come to market, cost, feature list, etc.?


Let me have a few months to answer (all) your questions.
It is still in the beta testing phase.


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

Sim said:


> Let me have a few months to answer (all) your questions.
> It is still in the beta testing phase.


Till then:






Checking how high the EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) gets during launch control and ALS. Real EGT (not ME7 calculated crap), probe mounted in the turbo manifold.

Test car is a FWD 1.8 20VT, mildly tuned (for "street racers"  ) with Ignitron ECU. ALS has some ignition cut events (to make some fancy pops) whilst launch hasn't. Launch RPM is set to 3000, ECU regulates advance to maintain target RPM at the predefined maximum TPS (DBW, electronic throttle control).


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim said:


> Till then:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good! Definitely stoked for this. Quick question: you had mentioned in another post that it would have flex fuel support, does this mean it will support an "octane sensor" so it can automatically switch maps when its got E85 in the tank?


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

fed0ra said:


> Looking good! Definitely stoked for this. Quick question: you had mentioned in another post that it would have flex fuel support, does this mean it will support an "octane sensor" so it can automatically switch maps when its got E85 in the tank?


Not just switch maps, but blend them in the correct ratio (depending on e85 content). Not in the first firmware tho.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Sim said:


> Not just switch maps, but blend them in the correct ratio (depending on e85 content). Not in the first firmware tho.


looking good

beta testing still sir?


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## fed0ra (Oct 24, 2012)

Sim said:


> Not just switch maps, but blend them in the correct ratio (depending on e85 content). Not in the first firmware tho.



:thumbup: opcorn:


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

fed0ra said:


> Sweetness. So is "Ignitron" the name of this mystery PnP ECU for the 1.8t? Any updates on when it will come to market, cost, feature list, etc.?


Some of the features of our forthcoming PnP ECU for the 1.8T ME7.5 (including 2.8 VR6) which has been in development and under testing in the past years:

Developed on and developed for the DBW 1.8T platform.
MSRP: $899 - full PnP (just replace the OEM ecu and route a communications cable into the cabin), supporting factory MAF and factory MAP in the factory location (which can of course be relocated into the intake manifold for true speed density operation).
ETA: 2016 Q2 - current beta versions avaiable sooner (shoot me a PM).
Follow us on the "ignitronecu" youtube channel.

SENSORS

1 Inductive sensor analog input (crankshaft position sensor)
2 Hall digital inputs (camshaft position sensors)
8 analog voltage inputs (f.eg: air flow, manifold absolute pressure, exhaust gas temperature, throtthe position, throtle pedal, user sensors, ...)
3 analog resistance inputs (f.eg: intake air temperature, engine coolant temperature, oil temperature, ...)
9 digital inputs 4 of them with frequency counter and pulse width detection (f.eg: clutch switch, brake switch, AC compressor, vehicle speed signal, …)
2 piezoelectric knock sensor inputs
1 wideband lambda sensor

INJECTION

Up to 8 high impedance injectors (dual stage injection up to 4 cylinders)
Predefined (20x20) or automatic (target lambda 12x8) pulse width calculations
Simultaneous calculations for two different fuels and blending them real time in any ratio (flexible fuel support)
Timing of injection start, center or endpoint
Actual volumetric efficiency is determined by "Alpha-N" or "Speed Density" method or by the signal of Mass Air Flow sensor or any combinations (in any ratio) of these.
Volumetric efficiency adaptation (self learning) according to the measured air flow.
Corrections (12x8) for transient load, intake air temperature, engine coolant temperature, exhaust gas temperature, manifold absolute pressure, fuel temperature, fuel rail pressure
Correction and adaptation to actual lambda value (short term and long term fuel trims)
Dead time compensation depending on battery voltage
Deceleration fuel cut off

IGNITION

Up to 6 Coil On Plug (logic level) channels, supporting wasted spark configurations
Dwell with battery voltage and engine load compensation
Ignition advance tables (20x20) for two different fuels and blending them real time in any ratio (flexible fuel support)
Corrections (12x8) for load (or MAP or TPS), transient load, intake air temperature, engine coolant temperature, exhaust gas temperature, actual lambda, camshafts position, gear number
Cylinder selective knock retard
Long term adaptation of knock retard

IDLE CONTROL

Open loop or closed loop control (PID controller)
Regulation of ignition advance, injection amount and throttle position (idle air)
Long term throttle position (idle air) adaptation
Anti stall throttle

BOOST CONTROL

Up to 4 real time switchable boost maps (12x8)
Open loop or closed loop control (PID controller with programmable integrator limits)
Requested boost limits depending on intake air temperature, engine coolant temperature, exhaust gas temperature, vehicle speed signal
Gear selective boost control
Turbo bypass solenoid ("N249") support 

DIAGNOSTICS

EPC and CEL lights
Fault code memory
Fault detection on all inputs and outputs (open circuit, short to gnd/vbat)
Limp mode (triggered by overboost, lean running, high EGT, high ECT, ...)
Datalogging of all avaialble values and variables (300+) simultaneously @ 25Hz

EXTRAS

Drive by wire throttle
Gear detection
Gear selective revolution limiting by ignition cut or retard, fuel cut, throttle closing
Launch control (throttle positions can also be predefined)
Anti Lag System
Traction Control
Shift light (to rear wheel speed)
CAN bus support (communication with dials (RPM, EPC, CEL), ABS/ESP (wheel speeds, steering wheel angle, ...), haldex, ...)


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Sim said:


> i am revealing some (!) of the features of our forthcoming PnP ECU for the 1.8T ME7.5 (including 2.8 VR6) which has been in development and under testing in the past few years.
> MSRP: $899 - full PnP (just replace the OEM ecu and route a communications cable into the cabin), supporting factory MAF and factory MAP in the factory location


Is this going to be compatible with the ME7.1 2.5L 5cylinder? Because, you know...



Sim said:


> BOOST CONTROL
> 
> Up to 4 real time switchable boost maps (12x8)
> Open loop or closed loop control (PID controller with programmable integrator limits)
> ...


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## Sim (Jun 27, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Is this going to be compatible with the ME7.1 2.5L 5cylinder? Because, you know...


Sime pins (2-3) need to be relocated as the 7.1 and 7.5 are not 100% compatible with each other (this also needs to be done for the 2.8/3.2 VR6 engines too). Other than that i dont see any reason why it would not work. Never tested it with this engine though, it is quite rare over here. If you are turboing it you would need to modify the harness any way (f.eg you cannot use the IAT sensor in the MAF anymore). I can send you the pinout of the ECU so you can verify if it fits your engine...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Sim said:


> Sime pins (2-3) need to be relocated as the 7.1 and 7.5 are not 100% compatible with each other (this also needs to be done for the 2.8/3.2 VR6 engines too). Other than that i dont see any reason why it would not work. Never tested it with this engine though, it is quite rare over here. *If you are turboing it you would need to modify the harness any way (f.eg you cannot use the IAT sensor in the MAF anymore)*. I can send you the pinout of the ECU so you can verify if it fits your engine...


Sure you can. We do. I recommend you look at these threads:

http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?6895519-2-5l-into-a-Mkl-TT
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7021172-FrankenTurbo-F25-Prototyping-amp-Testing
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6944291-Your-everyday-ordinary-FrankenTurbo-d-2-5L-TT


As someone who knows a thing or two about marketing performance products, I recommend you look closely at the sales opportunities for FI conversions of naturally-aspirated motors. Your integrated boost control is a huge advantage for any car that came stock without that functionality.


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## punkrider99 (Jan 16, 2004)

wow slim, how is it that you get away with so much spamming? and in someone else's thread about nefmoto/tunerpro no less! how do you manage to not get banned?


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