# Pilot vs Atlas - Pros and Cons list and test drive and cost opinions



## DrivinginNY (Jun 6, 2017)

snobrdrdan said:


> I think they're doing that with the 6 year bumper to bumper warranty
> 
> And discounting a car that you (literally) _just_ launched (and is selling)....that would seem pretty desperate



How does a Honda Pilot EX-L AWD cost compare to an ATLAS SEL (which is barely available). They are not giving a freebee to win people over, they are just charging for an extended warranty plan.

Also, any new car will "sell." Fiats and Smartcars "sell." At the slow rate they are producing the Atlas, they should be "sold out." i am talking about volume. If VW wants to move a lot of cars, they need to produce and provide incentives, not just include an extended warranty that you are paying for.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

DrivinginNY said:


> How does a Honda Pilot EX-L AWD cost compare to an ATLAS SEL (which is barely available). They are not giving a freebee to win people over, they are just charging for an extended warranty plan.
> 
> Also, any new car will "sell." Fiats and Smartcars "sell." At the slow rate they are producing the Atlas, they should be "sold out." i am talking about volume. If VW wants to move a lot of cars, they need to produce and provide incentives, not just include an extended warranty that you are paying for.


Typical tire kicker 

What kind of "extended warranty plan" covers EVERYTHING with no deductible for 6years, 72k? 

It's either you like/want the car or you don't Mr. Honda Pilot fanboy, but I'm guessing the latter


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## DrivinginNY (Jun 6, 2017)

snobrdrdan said:


> It's either you like/want the car or you don't Mr. Honda Pilot fanboy, but I'm guessing the latter


You're right. I don't want the Atlas bad enough to put up with Volkswagen's problems and wait another 4 months. Maybe for the next launch, they'll QA check the car first. I pick up my new XC90 this week.


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## richyrich999 (Oct 20, 2008)

DrivinginNY said:


> You're right. I don't want the Atlas bad enough to put up with Volkswagen's problems and wait another 4 months. Maybe for the next launch, they'll QA check the car first. I pick up my new XC90 this week.


ROFL you mean the XC90 that has a starting price 50% higher than an Atlas? I think you've been comparing the wrong vehicles Mr Troll!


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## joemarcum (Jun 2, 2017)

*not to add fire*

So not to add fire to this ... but .... the problem with Atlas is that if you are leasing ... it is NOT 50% cheaper that an XC90 because then all you are concerned with is the payment and I can assure you the payments on an XC90 are NOT 50% more. Especially if you are looking at Atlas SEL Premium ... which from what I have read on this forum is the most popular ... people are looking for the loaded version. 

Right now the Atlas residuals estimates could be low ... impacting the payments a lot, making cars like XC90, and others a much more interesting option. Also, at 50K for the fully loaded SEL Premium, you are really only about 10K less than a very nicely equipped Audi Q7 or XC90 in purchase price .... not 50% ... not even close.


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## jkueter (Feb 12, 2008)

joemarcum said:


> So not to add fire to this ... but .... the problem with Atlas is that if you are leasing ... it is NOT 50% cheaper that an XC90 because then all you are concerned with is the payment and I can assure you the payments on an XC90 are NOT 50% more. Especially if you are looking at Atlas SEL Premium ... which from what I have read on this forum is the most popular ... people are looking for the loaded version.
> 
> Right now the Atlas residuals estimates could be low ... impacting the payments a lot, making cars like XC90, and others a much more interesting option. Also, at 50K for the fully loaded SEL Premium, you are really only about 10K less than a very nicely equipped Audi Q7 or XC90 in purchase price .... not 50% ... not even close.


I think it's funny that suddenly it's only 10k from something when people are whining about not getting couple grand off ...


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## joemarcum (Jun 2, 2017)

*Deals*

Buyers looking to get the best price when they purchase is not the same as evaluating value or comparing one product to another include features, price, capabilities, design, etc. The fact that buyers are trying to "get a few thousand off" does not mean that a car priced $10k more isn't a good option/value. I would assume the same or similar buyer would also want to "get a few thousand off" the higher cost option as well ...


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## DrivinginNY (Jun 6, 2017)

joemarcum said:


> Buyers looking to get the best price when they purchase is not the same as evaluating value or comparing one product to another include features, price, capabilities, design, etc. The fact that buyers are trying to "get a few thousand off" does not mean that a car priced $10k more isn't a good option/value. I would assume the same or similar buyer would also want to "get a few thousand off" the higher cost option as well ...


Well said


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## davidc1 (May 10, 2010)

I believe Atlas is very competitively priced as is. I hope to get a few grand off MSRP when I am due to get mine next year.


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## Drive by (Mar 13, 2017)

*Pilot vs Atlas - Pros and Cons list and test drive opinions*

Has anyone had a chance to do a back to back or near back to back test drive of a Pilot and Atlas? I've crawled over both in great detail but since I'm not buying to till the fall I have't wasted any dealer's time yet on actually driving one. Plus the trims I want (Execline and Touring) are a little scarce to find locally. I was travelling when a local dealer had their launch party and haven't seen an Atlas at a dealer yet  Only the car shows.

And hey, maybe OpenRoad could do a joint drive and choose party??? You guys have all the brands..... Toyota Highlander, Pilot and Atlas all in one place for a day. Each brand would walk away with some orders I'd imagine.


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## Drive by (Mar 13, 2017)

*Pilot vs Atlas - Pros and Cons list*

Most of us are cross shopping at least these two and I'm keeping a list of pros and cons as I see it. Some are my opinion and I'm trying to be as honest about all as I can. I have no brand loyalty but do have experience with both with current Odyssey and previous Passat/Jetta and way back when GTI.

*Pilot*:

_Pros_:
Honda Quality
Lower likely maintenance $$ and hassle due above.
Power
Fuel economy
2nd year of production to get the bugs out



Cons:
More car like looks, more Soccer Mom feel
Audio unit somewhat questionable - 2017 may have fixed??
second row captain chairs only and USB charging TBD (I have teenagers this is very important :facepalm
year 2 of?? in looks, meaning it will look dated with model roll sooner.
Stupidly small sunroof compared to Atlas



*Atlas*

_Pros_
space
sunroof
dash (SEL Premium/Execline particularly)
VW looks.
Looks like a SUV not a bloated wagon.

_Cons_:
VW risk of reliability
Fuel economy
Dealer Service risk (I have had terrible success with Dealers being able to fix my 3 previous VW)
Torque maybe a little light for spirited driving
1st year gremlins 


Emotionally I want the Atlas but the VW brand scares me. Honda is more boring until you push it then the engine comes alive. Boring is good from a maintenance perspective.

OK enough rambling from me, I'd love to see your Pros and Cons list.


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## Lopan (May 4, 2002)

I've owned 7 VWs, the last 3 being new. My ownership experience has been great, so I trust the reliability.

For my wife and I, the Atlas tops the Pilot on the following:

* Better infotainment all-around, including volume knobs
* 3rd row access with child seats in 2nd row
* Better access and usability out of the 3rd row
* After tilting the 2nd row for 3rd row access, the 2nd row seats return to their previous position

Those last 2 points are key. Even if I want to squeeze myself into the back of the Pilot, I first have to crush my knees, and then push the 2nd row back forward. We expect adults will use that row on our somewhat-regular very long car trips, so access is a big deal. The kids will need that in a few years as well.

We're going with an SE and so missing out on the sunroof, which I'll miss after the great panoramic one in the TDI wagon. I'd also like more power, but overall I'm not expecting as spirited a drive as our 6 speed TDI wagon or my GTI. It's all about comfort and convenience, and I think VW nailed that.


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## ussr1023 (Jan 19, 2017)

Drive by said:


> Most of us are cross shopping at least these two and I'm keeping a list of pros and cons as I see it. Some are my opinion and I'm trying to be as honest about all as I can. I have no brand loyalty but do have experience with both with current Odyssey and previous Passat/Jetta and way back when GTI.
> 
> *Pilot*:
> 
> ...


I really don't understand why is so many people saying VW has a bad reliability. Like where does that come from???


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## TIGSEL (Dec 22, 2011)

Honda quality? I've owned two Odysseys (11,16) and currently own a 16 MDX (same as Pilot) and let me tell you their quality sucks balls. MDX reliability also isn't great, constant computer gremlins, early transmission problems, higher maintenance cost, yes I am at 10k miles and it already telling me to change differential fluids ($$$). My lease on it ends in a year and guess what's replacing it.


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## lbeard87 (Mar 29, 2016)

Pilot only has 2nd row captains chairs in Elite trim which is $47k +. I believe Atlas will have option for Captains chairs in multiple trims, not just the top trim. (correct me if I am wrong)

Reviews from journalists and general public for the 9 speed transmission in the Touring and Elite trims have not been good. 2 personal friends have Pilot Elites and really dislike how it drives and the functionality of the buttons for shifting. 

Atlas' new 8 speed transmission has received largely positive reviews for the ones I have read or watched and is available in all trims.


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## fotchpd (Feb 19, 2004)

ussr1023 said:


> I really don't understand why is so many people saying VW has a bad reliability. Like where does that come from???


^^ This. I have owned 5 VWs and never had any issues outside regular maintenance (that you should do on any car). 3 of them were traded or sold with over 100-150k miles. On top of that from my experience the VR6 motor has always been super reliable. But maybe I just got lucky


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## Drive by (Mar 13, 2017)

fotchpd said:


> ^^ This. I have owned 5 VWs and never had any issues outside regular maintenance (that you should do on any car). 3 of them were traded or sold with over 100-150k miles. On top of that from my experience the VR6 motor has always been super reliable. But maybe I just got lucky


My personal experience was that my 87 GTI was rock solid. 96 Jetta Transmission issues from hell. 2002 Passat, transmission issues and front suspension issues. What worked, worked flawlessly. What was broken the dealers never could fix. And I went to 4 different dealers on the Jetta and Passat.

Honda is a 2006 and other than tires, brakes (once), timing belt and oil changes it's been problem free. In fact at 172KM and 12 years old it is only now starting to squeak but everything still works.

So maybe Honda sucks now and VW has their act together but my experience has been the opposite. Ironically the FORDs in the family are the most reliable. If the Explorer didn't look so dorky and that stupid turbo didn't suck gas like it does I probably would just go by an Explorer.


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## beastcivic (May 27, 2003)

I had a '16 Pilot for 5 months. I didn't have much issue with the transmission, and for being a big car it was plenty fast (off the line and highway passing).

I think there is a panoramic sunroof option, but only on the top trim with 2nd row captains chairs.

The seating was comfortable for 2nd and 3rd row. But the plastics used in the rear of the car were softer than I'd like, and anything I put in the back marred/scratched the plastic (cargo items like a stroller, baggage (soft sided, but with wheels), high chair, etc. Not sure if the Atlas is any different though.

And one big issues I had read about that scared me (other than the reports of issues with the 9 speed ZF transmission) was the water leak problems with the rear hatch. Some people had it fill with water in a rain storm or from washing, then when they open the hatch it would pour out of everywhere, leaking into the car. I hope they've fixed that issue, but from what I heard each reported problem was fixed differently. So not sure there's a real fix, beyond guessing.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

lbeard87 said:


> Pilot only has 2nd row captains chairs in Elite trim which is $47k +. I believe Atlas will have option for Captains chairs in multiple trims, not just the top trim. (correct me if I am wrong)
> 
> Reviews from journalists and general public for the 9 speed transmission in the Touring and Elite trims have not been good. 2 personal friends have Pilot Elites and really dislike how it drives and the functionality of the buttons for shifting.
> 
> Atlas' new 8 speed transmission has received largely positive reviews for the ones I have read or watched and is available in all trims.


The pilot will come with capt' chairs in the lower model this year. I am not sure if they are forcing you to get the 9 speed in the lower model now tho. Anyway, stay away from the honda nine speed. 

Lower model with capt'n chairs and 6 speed is a damn fine option. Still leaning Atlas though.


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## sedelstein (Jul 13, 2017)

As others have mentioned, Honda reliability and quality has been a myth for awhile. It really started with the auto tranny failures in the early 2000s and then oil consumption in the late 2000's. Ever since then, its been an steady decline. Honda is also not the only Japanese manufacturer sitting on theirtheirast reputation. All but Toyota have ether declined or were never quite up to the Japanese stereptypes. It seems Hyundai and Kia are starting to be the what most of the Japanese used to be.

The issues with VW's in the past have mostly been electrical issues. Since the MK4 gen ended production, electrical issues have been virtually non-existent within the VW group. Sure there's always the occasional computer glitch that *could* happen but all that issue needs is software update. This car, in the VR6 with the 8 speed transmission setup at least, should provide you with many years of worry-free and enjoyable driving. Plus it comes with a great warranty. If that isn't good enough for you, get a Highlander.


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## sedelstein (Jul 13, 2017)

Most of the stereotypical VW issues (electrical and transmission) have been mostly gone since the mk4 era ended. The issues with newer VWs have been with the TSI 4 cylinder turbo engines. But, those have been slowly ironed out for the last few years. This car, in the VR6 configuration at least should give you many years of problem-free driving. And theres a great warranty to boot. If that isn't good enough for you, buy a Highlander.


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## SooprmanX (Sep 12, 2003)

http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...t-mazda-cx-9-comparison-test?build-2017062120


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## jkueter (Feb 12, 2008)

SooprmanX said:


> http://www.caranddriver.com/compari...t-mazda-cx-9-comparison-test?build-2017062120


It's too bad the CX9 wasn't a little bigger because that would have been a serious contender when I was shopping.


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## der_apoteker (Mar 27, 2017)

We look at a cx9 yesterday... dealers still have 2016 models on the lot. The wife likes the mazda over the santa fe and it is nearly as easy to get into the rear as the atlas. Still, I felt it was dated, which suprised me for a new.car... looks much sexier on the outside, almost like a jaguar f pace

Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


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## VolkswagenFanatic (Feb 26, 2017)

Honda is known for its horrible quality and reliability. Everyone knows they make garbage cars just like Toyota and all the other chinese tin-cans.


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## is95a (Jul 6, 2017)

Purchased an SEL Premium in early June and have been very happy. We test drove the CX9 Signature, Explorer Platinum, and Honda Pilot Elite. Going into it I was almost positive we were going to get the Pilot. We also have a 2016 Civic EXT and I think its a great car and feel we will get many years out of it and hand it down to the 13 year old tween when she is ready to drive. I have leased/bought a lot of vehicles in the last 30 years, but these are the first we own free and clear. I havent had a VW since my 1999 Golf, but the 6/72 warranty absolutely closed the deal for me. Pros and cons below:
Pilot 
Pros
-Great engine
-Acceleration
-Gas mileage
-Quality and resale
-Adequate room
Cons
-Looks like a minivan with big wheels
-9 speed is questionable
-They are EVERYWHERE
-Can only get captains seats in the elite trim
Atlas Pros
-Looks like an SUV
-HUGE interior
-Love the electronics and customizable views 
-2nd row bench seat (easy to keep the dogs enclosed in the back)
-Engine 
-WARRANTY
-Gas mileage
-Comfort and driving
-LED lighting, headlights and brights
-3rd Row is legit adult ready
-Smooth 8 speed
Cons
-Acceleration (adequate but not as quick as the Pilot)
-Unknown quality and resale


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## Bluemeansgo (May 14, 2017)

*My analysis*

We went with the Atlas...


```
+---------------+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|               | Pilot | Atlas |                                   Comments                                    |
+---------------+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Cargo Space   |       | X     | The Atlas space behind the 3rd row... WAY better.                             |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Passengers    | ½     | ½     | Honda has an 8th seatbelt... but other than that                              |
|               |       |       | comfort is MUCH nicer in the Atlas for 7 passenger. esp. 3rd row.             |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Dash          |       | X     | Atlas is Much cleaner, more functional, fewer random buttons.                 |
|               |       |       | In short, it feels more though out                                            |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Driver        |       | X     | The button transmission is ugly on the Pilot but the Atlas has                |
|               |       |       | a more traditional gear shifter. Some like buttons, and we'll                 |
|               |       |       | get used to it as we see more and more of em.                                 |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Entertainment |       | X     | Atlas wins this one. VOLUME KNOBS! And blue gradients are horrible.           |
|               |       |       | I DO wish that the VW menu differentiated their                               |
|               |       |       | icons with a bit of color or put a little more effort into design.            |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Looks         |       | X     | This is subjective, but VW wins this one. The Pilot looks less like a truck   |
|               |       |       | since the 2006MY. The VW is fresh and beefier. Stands out much more           |
+---------------+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
```


```
+---------------+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|               | Pilot | Atlas |                                   Comments                                    |
+---------------+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Economy       | X     |       | Hard to argue this one. Pilot beat out the Atlas.                             |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Reliability   | ½     | ½     | This one's tough. If you maintain a VW (and pay the prices to do so)          |
|               |       |       | it will last. The VR6 is a tried and true engine. I wish I they went with a   |
|               |       |       | newer engine with better eco, but VW is playing it safe in America right now. |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Maintenance   | X     |       | The Honda will be cheaper to maintain.                                        |
|               |       |       |                                                                               |
| Insurance     | X     |       | The Honda is cheaper to insure (at least in BC)                               |
+---------------+-------+-------+-------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
```


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

Haven't driven the Atlas yet but my mother-in-law as a brand new Pilot and I hate it. The looks are subjective but don't let any Pilot drivers fool you, this is a lifted minivan through and through. Drives like my a minivan but louder and the ergonomics inside are terrible. BUT the biggest problem for me with the Pilot (actually with any Honda) is they don't set it up at all for towing. No trans cooler, no larger alternator, hitch and wiring harness are not standard. Toyota and now VW seem to do this the right way.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Bluemeansgo said:


> We went with the Atlas...
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Reflection on your comment about maintenance of VW (Atlas in this case). Please let me know how is more expensive to maintain since that is news for me?
I never changed oil in VW because they are using below average Castrol 5W40. So go to Wal mart, I get Castrol 0W40, it is $26 for 5qt. 
What else from regular maintenance is more expensive on VW? I seriously do not understand. 
On other hand, my in-laws have previous generation Pilot, and due to undersized brakes they had to change 4 times rotors and pads and car only has 66k.


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

edyvw said:


> Reflection on your comment about maintenance of VW (Atlas in this case). Please let me know how is more expensive to maintain since that is news for me?
> I never changed oil in VW because they are using below average Castrol 5W40. So go to Wal mart, I get Castrol 0W40, it is $26 for 5qt.
> What else from regular maintenance is more expensive on VW? I seriously do not understand.
> On other hand, my in-laws have previous generation Pilot, and due to undersized brakes they had to change 4 times rotors and pads and car only has 66k.



_What else from regular maintenance is more expensive on VW? I seriously do not understand._

The myth/perception is still based on old data that Consumer Reports etc still publishes to cater to the Camry buyer.
Rarely does one provide data that shows that any current Volkswagen (Touareg excluded) has any *maintenance costs* significantly higher than any other brand.


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## sedelstein (Jul 13, 2017)

I'm mystified at why you would say that a Touareg is more expensive to maintain than any of its cheaper siblings (in this case Atlas) when the Touareg and Atlas share the same basic drivetrain.


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## dieselpwr (Mar 7, 2004)

sedelstein said:


> I'm mystified at why you would say that a Touareg is more expensive to maintain than any of its cheaper siblings (in this case Atlas) when the Touareg and Atlas share the same basic drivetrain.


brakes on the Touareg are insanely expensive. but they do stop on a dime. AFAIK, the Atlas doesn't have the same 6 piston calipers the Touareg has.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

sedelstein said:


> I'm mystified at why you would say that a Touareg is more expensive to maintain than any of its cheaper siblings (in this case Atlas) when the Touareg and Atlas share the same basic drivetrain.


dieselpwr told you that brakes on Touareg are more expensive. That is bcs. they share same calipers with Q7 and Porsche (Brembo). However, I would not say they are insanely expensive. I think pads are around $200, similar to other vehicles in that class. For example front pads for my X5 35d (OEM) are $171. However, I get Textar (OE supplier) for $72 with same bite/performance. Recently FCPEuro had on sale Brembo front rotors for BMW and I paid pair $110. 
So, with little bit of work, shopping around one can save a lot and still drive cars like Q7, X5 or Touareg actually cheaper then let's say person who maintains Highlander in dealership.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> _What else from regular maintenance is more expensive on VW? I seriously do not understand._
> 
> The myth/perception is still based on old data that Consumer Reports etc still publishes to cater to the Camry buyer.
> Rarely does one provide data that shows that any current Volkswagen (Touareg excluded) has any *maintenance costs* significantly higher than any other brand.


When my wife and I were dating she had 2005 Nissan Sentra. We lived in different states one period and one ball joint was bad on Sentra. Dealership charged $400 one ball joint with replacement. 
So, how cheaper is maintenance on Pilot is up for discussion. 
As for Consumer Reports, people actually still reading that BS?


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

sedelstein said:


> I'm mystified at why you would say that a Touareg is more expensive to maintain than any of its cheaper siblings (in this case Atlas) when the Touareg and Atlas share the same basic drivetrain.


"dieselpwr" just gave one example.


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

edyvw said:


> When my wife and I were dating she had 2005 Nissan Sentra. We lived in different states one period and one ball joint was bad on Sentra. Dealership charged $400 one ball joint with replacement.
> So, how cheaper is maintenance on Pilot is up for discussion.
> *As for Consumer Reports, people actually still reading that BS?*




_The myth/perception is still based on old data that *Consumer Reports etc still publishes to cater to the Camry buyer.*_


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## jkopelc (Mar 1, 2017)

Interesting review on the exact topic of this thread:

http://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2018-volkswagen-atlas-vs-2017-honda-pilot-comparison-test

As can be seen, the Pilot is chosen as the winner - subjective based on the reviewers preferences - but as always its up to the consumer to decide what they value most and where they wish to spend their money.

Interestingly, the 3 biggest downfalls according to the reviewer:
- rough ride
- jumpy throttle and,
- interior quality and design

With my own take on this, I happen to think the ride is quite smooth, especially due to the incredibly long wheelbase (as compared to the Pilot but also compared to the Explorer as well). I think a jumpy throttle is not a bad thing and is very subject. What they call a jumpy throttle I call responsive and id rather have that over a throttle that feels like it does nothing when your foot is on it. Interior quality I would agree there are some additional plastics - but this is a utility vehicle and not a luxury offering. Design however I would not lump in to the category as even the reviewer states the design of the Atlas is vastly better and in the concluding remarks mentions he would live with certain nuances.

Anyway, just my 2 cents


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## jkopelc (Mar 1, 2017)

Video review as well:

https://news.google.com/news/video/5sGXgGN6ywA/dO1JNFjsv9Uq4oMooYSwdU9LrVLTM?hl=en&ned=us


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Reviews are extremely opinionated and shouldn't be taken as fact. Car and Driver has the Atlas beating the Pilot. If I was to judge reviews, I don't know if I'd believe AutoGuide more than Car and Driver.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

capclassicv2 said:


> Reviews are extremely opinionated and shouldn't be taken as fact. Car and Driver has the Atlas beating the Pilot. If I was to judge reviews, I don't know if I'd believe AutoGuide more than Car and Driver.


I think the variations prove exactly what everyone is saying - at the end of day, its opinion based. Sure there are some hard facts that you can't ignore like size numbers or 0-60 times BUT to each there own. For example, with Car and Driver I would agree that the Mazda is one of the nicest 3 row SUVs on the market. The problem is that it doesn't work for me because of its non-existent tow rating.

Car buying these days has changed (at least for me) to more a need base analysis. Its no longer just about which 3 row SUV fits my budget.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

giantsnation said:


> I think the variations prove exactly what everyone is saying - at the end of day, its opinion based. Sure there are some hard facts that you can't ignore like size numbers or 0-60 times BUT to each there own. For example, with Car and Driver I would agree that the Mazda is one of the nicest 3 row SUVs on the market. The problem is that it doesn't work for me because of its non-existent tow rating.
> 
> Car buying these days has changed (at least for me) to more a need base analysis. Its no longer just about which 3 row SUV fits my budget.


I am not sure why everyone is so focused on 0-60? 
Who cares if it is 8 or 6 seconds, I usually do not drag race other people with my one year old son in back seat. 
However, what REALLY matters is elasticity 40-60mph and 60-80mph. And that is where Atlas is simply miserable! 
My X5 is 6.9 sec to 60. Honda Pilot is actually 0.9sec faster to 60. However, I can guarantee you that I will leave Pilot behind football distance passing two or three cars, not to mention going uphill. In this segment everything is about torque!
Problem for VW is that they wanted to use in Atlas 4cyl diesel, probably one of stronger versions available in Europe. I know that because gas door is too big, and there is space for DEF cap there. That was good thinking, offer VR6 and 2.0T to masses, and diesel to traditional VW buyers and those who need torque to tow. Now, all that is not possible to do thanx to VW leadership. So they are stuck with old engine that has poor MPG, no power whatsoever, and horrid payload numbers. But let's forget payload numbers. People who buy these cars are already suspicious of VW, and on top of that EPA numbers are not even close to Highlander or Pilot. So, not sure how VW expect that someone who had 3-4 Highlanders or Pilots will move to VW? There is topic about sale numbers, and I stated this here before, unless they do something with engine and MPG, this car will be at the bottom of sales in this segment and will quietly die off.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

edyvw said:


> I am not sure why everyone is so focused on 0-60?
> Who cares if it is 8 or 6 seconds, I usually do not drag race other people with my one year old son in back seat.
> However, what REALLY matters is elasticity 40-60mph and 60-80mph. And that is where Atlas is simply miserable!
> My X5 is 6.9 sec to 60. Honda Pilot is actually 0.9sec faster to 60. However, I can guarantee you that I will leave Pilot behind football distance passing two or three cars, not to mention going uphill. In this segment everything is about torque!
> Problem for VW is that they wanted to use in Atlas 4cyl diesel, probably one of stronger versions available in Europe. I know that because gas door is too big, and there is space for DEF cap there. That was good thinking, offer VR6 and 2.0T to masses, and diesel to traditional VW buyers and those who need torque to tow. Now, all that is not possible to do thanx to VW leadership. So they are stuck with old engine that has poor MPG, no power whatsoever, and horrid payload numbers. But let's forget payload numbers. People who buy these cars are already suspicious of VW, and on top of that EPA numbers are not even close to Highlander or Pilot. So, not sure how VW expect that someone who had 3-4 Highlanders or Pilots will move to VW? There is topic about sale numbers, and I stated this here before, unless they do something with engine and MPG, this car will be at the bottom of sales in this segment and will quietly die off.



I hear ya and while I largely agree, here is my 2c on VWs approach to this vehicle. They prioritized size and price over anything else. Their main goal was to build an SUV that could compete with the pilots of the world. They also had to realize that they're very late to the game so developing a car and drive-train from the ground was never going to work - too much time and too many resources. 

Now hopefully if VW is smart, they update powertrains at the end of next year. Almost all the critics agree that VW nailed the size and pricing to be a legit competitor. VW can focus solely on powertrain and MPG numbers. My hope would be for a smaller V6 with a turbo (think Ford EcoBoost).


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

giantsnation said:


> I hear ya and while I largely agree, here is my 2c on VWs approach to this vehicle. They prioritized size and price over anything else. Their main goal was to build an SUV that could compete with the pilots of the world. They also had to realize that they're very late to the game so developing a car and drive-train from the ground was never going to work - too much time and too many resources.
> 
> Now hopefully if VW is smart, they update powertrains at the end of next year. Almost all the critics agree that VW nailed the size and pricing to be a legit competitor. VW can focus solely on powertrain and MPG numbers. My hope would be for a smaller V6 with a turbo (think Ford EcoBoost).


Well, they offered 2.5 V6 Turbo in China. But then again, yes you are right, 95% of American think car is an appliance and they treat it that way. Turbo is too complicated for them.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

edyvw said:


> Well, they offered 2.5 V6 Turbo in China. But then again, yes you are right, 95% of American think car is an appliance and they treat it that way. Turbo is too complicated for them.


Yea the 2.5 turbo is really an ideal engine (at least on paper). I'm not sure why they didn't use that here - ~300hp and 368lb-ft. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this one develops. Right now, VW can ride the VR6 for about a year.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

giantsnation said:


> Yea the 2.5 turbo is really an ideal engine (at least on paper). I'm not sure why they didn't use that here - ~300hp and 368lb-ft. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this one develops. Right now, VW can ride the VR6 for about a year.


If they offer 2.5 V6 T I am first in line to buy it.


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## dieselpwr (Mar 7, 2004)

i read somewhere that in China, anything with more than 3.0 liters is heavily taxed, so they developed the 2.5 specifically for that market. Although the VR6 is a reliable engine that's been around forever, it would be nice to have something with a bit more power and potential in the Atlas. A 2.5t with an aftermarket tune, would easily be in the high 300hp range.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

dieselpwr said:


> i read somewhere that in China, anything with more than 3.0 liters is heavily taxed, so they developed the 2.5 specifically for that market. Although the VR6 is a reliable engine that's been around forever, it would be nice to have something with a bit more power and potential in the Atlas. A 2.5t with an aftermarket tune, would easily be in the high 300hp range.


Hp on a side, it has 363 lb-ft, and that is for family hauler OK.


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## BaNeM (Aug 7, 2017)

We just brought home our Atlas a few weeks ago but after looking at several of the various mid-sized SUV's out there, we ended up narrowing it down to the Pilot and the Atlas ourselves. I agree with the overall sentiment that it ultimately comes down to preference. We thought both of them were great vehicles and in the end you really end up splitting hairs as to which is the better choice/option.

We chose the Atlas for the following things over the Pilot:

-Looks like an SUV (Pilot felt like a beefy mini van)
-2nd and 3rd row seating space (I am tall and there is plenty of room for me even in the back seats)
-Infotainment/Electronics (The Atlas Infotainment system just felt so much more elegant and easy to control over the Pilot's)
-WARRANTY - 6 year bumper to bumper is amazing
-Comfort and driving (so much nicer of a driving experience, while not quite as quick as the Pilot, it felt more nimble and far less boring to drive when compared to the Pilot)
-Cargo space


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## Shahryar (Aug 14, 2017)

*For me: Atlas SEL Premium > Pilot Elite*

I drove both the Atlas (SE Trim) and the Pilot Elite a few days ago. Comparing sticker price to sticker price, what sells the Atlas to me is the overhead camera and the Park Assist. I found both sizes pretty comparable. The Atlas felt a little cooler too than the Pilot. The Pilot financing numbers were pretty bad (I'm getting better numbers from the QX60) and I'm assuming the Atlas' will be better looking at leasing prices paid posts. Also I hated that the Elite came with the entertainment system. I'm strict on screen time with my 4 year old and don't want the system staring at her face. If you don't get the Elite, you lose out on some good features (although I don't remember what off the top of my head).


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## theperv (Jul 24, 2002)

snobrdrdan said:


> Typical tire kicker
> 
> What kind of "extended warranty plan" covers EVERYTHING with no deductible for 6years, 72k?
> 
> It's either you like/want the car or you don't Mr. Honda Pilot fanboy, but I'm guessing the latter


this one gets me lol! you are getting the extended warranty because you will more than likely need it especially on this first year model. Maybe you have had good reliability in the past and thats great, but scaling out to the rest of the world, VW reliability is not the greatest and there are many articles just a search away that corroborate that story... for instance:
http://www.businessinsider.com/why-americans-arent-buying-volkswagen-vw-2016-8

the Atlas looks great, but there are no reliability figures as of yet. hey lets pour some gas on this dumpster fire, heres an email i received today from a local dealer:

Thank you for your interest in the 2018 Atlas, and the opportunity to earn your business. It's appreciated.

There has been a hick-up in the arrival of the Atlas, making the SEL and SEL Premiums very hard to obtain at the moment. VW has ramped out a bunch of the less equipped versions only to find out that Americans want them loaded.

All of that said, they have paused production for a few weeks to re-tool the factory to catch up with demand.

If you'd like, I can add your name to my list of SEL requests, and I can keep you posted as we hear more.

I wish I had better news. Let me know how you'd like to proceed.

that right there tells me, hmm the atlas either isnt selling like expected so the factory gets idled for inventory to sell out, or there are problems. there is no tooling needed to install xtra cameras sensors or other electronic equipment that comes on the SEL. tooling is needed for bending sheet metal and lifting heavy stuff... maybe the salesman in this instance is just spinning bs, but the way you insult the OP is rediculous.. get off the kool aid and take a real impartial look at the situation and product. i know you are passionate about vw but come on


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

Sorry but no company is going to idle a factory two months into a new model launch because of sales numbers. They haven't even properly stocked dealers with Atlas'. 

I don't know if I'd trust that source either. Unless he's referring to tooling involved in models and features that just started production, like the R-Line package or the 2.0T engine lineup. 

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## vw_service_advisor (Aug 10, 2017)

Really interesting thread, I had a couple thoughts:

Short version: neither Hondas or VWs are generally unreliable IMO but VWs are quirkier and probably more expensive to keep on the road for most drivers.

Long version: I used to work with a lot of Hondas from model years 06ish to 12-13 and they were some of the more reliable cars I've ever seen. The entire brand is relatively inexpensive to repair, due in part to the fact any competent and trustworthy shop can fix most common Honda issues so customers can price shop more aggressively. 
Most serious Honda engine issues Ive seen were people using the wrong weight oil in a VVT engine so that's not on Honda. Civics needed a radiator sometimes and transmissions would reliably go on Accords but at a pretty high mileage where 90% plus of original owners aren't around to have to deal with it.
All that said I have two family members with late model Hondas and both have been less reliable than the Hondas I'm used to. Small sample size though so maybe that's just bad luck.

Just talking to VW customers all day people really seem to like the Atlas. I think VW has hit a home run on the interior and exterior styling and feel for the US market and it's going to be a really successful model in the years to come.
Any time you're in the first year for a model or a model rehaul you're going to, at a minimum, have off the wall issues with some of those cars and the Atlas doesn't seem to be an exception there unfortunately. The good news is it's literally random, off the wall issues so far, nothing across the model line I've noticed on the few we've had in. Plus those items are of course under warranty and if you just bought a new car here come heck or high water we're getting you in a comparable loaner while the repair is being handled.
With brand loyalty at an all time low and the internet standardizing car pricing; margin (i.e. profit) is harder to come by. ALL manufacturers are trying to limit costs by make cheaper vehicles to increase profit. With VW recently getting our rear kicked on this sort of thing I think we're more likely to be on the up as far as quality moving forward over the next few years while it wouldn't surprise me if Honda is getting away with cheaper parts on newer cars, but that's total speculation and I haven't seen enough from Honda to write off the brand.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

vw_service_advisor said:


> Really interesting thread, I had a couple thoughts:
> 
> Short version: neither Hondas or VWs are generally unreliable IMO but VWs are quirkier and probably more expensive to keep on the road for most drivers.
> 
> ...


This last thing you mentioned is something I still do not get it. I talked today with service manager here in Colo. Spgs. about Atlas (Tiguan was in service for blower motor resistor, first thing to break in 66K). Here at least, sales numbers are abysmal and he also thinks it is because of power plant, and altitude here does not help (they sold 1 (ONE) last month). 
So, with brand loyalty at lowest point in decades (at least since issue with Audi transmissions in 80's) VW decided to offer underpowered car and with that turn away many traditional customers, and trying at the same time get Toyota, Honda etc. customers who are usually sticking to their choice like fly to the ****. 
My in laws have 2009 Honda Pilot. They are uber slow drivers who managed to go thru 3 sets of rotors and pads in 60k (I attribute that to horrid brakes Honda put on the car), front differential, and of course VVT issue although car was regularly serviced in Honda dealership. My wife's mom (driver of that Pilot) does not want to drive my wife's Tiguan because, read this, she is afraid of it (not to mention she does not want to come 5 ft or closer to my BMW). So, are those customers VW had in mind with Atlas? 
If so, they can already write that car off.


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## RedHotFuzz (Nov 16, 2015)

The Atlas was not available when I got my latest family hauler, but the Pilot was axed from my list due to the mandatory captains chairs in the middle row on the upper trim levels. It's absurd to make something of that size effectively a 4-seater if you have any cargo to haul (say, camping gear or luggage for a road trip). I have 3 kids and one would always be stuck in the 3rd row and my cargo area would be decimated.

Honda's overall lack of configurable options really kills their appeal. Toyota is the same way with the Highlander. If you want the extra options of the higher trims you can kiss that 3rd passenger spot in the middle row goodbye.

That's why I ended up with a Durango R/T. I hadn't owned a "domestic" brand since 1988, but the domestics certainly have a huge edge over the Japanese when it comes to vehicle configuration options.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

RedHotFuzz said:


> The Atlas was not available when I got my latest family hauler, but the Pilot was axed from my list due to the mandatory captains chairs in the middle row on the upper trim levels. It's absurd to make something of that size effectively a 4-seater if you have any cargo to haul (say, camping gear or luggage for a road trip). I have 3 kids and one would always be stuck in the 3rd row and my cargo area would be decimated.
> 
> Honda's overall lack of configurable options really kills their appeal. Toyota is the same way with the Highlander. If you want the extra options of the higher trims you can kiss that 3rd passenger spot in the middle row goodbye.
> 
> That's why I ended up with a Durango R/T. I hadn't owned a "domestic" brand since 1988, but the domestics certainly have a huge edge over the Japanese when it comes to vehicle configuration options.


2017 Highlander comes now with standard bench in all trims.


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## giantsnation (Dec 15, 2014)

RedHotFuzz said:


> The Atlas was not available when I got my latest family hauler, but the Pilot was axed from my list due to the mandatory captains chairs in the middle row on the upper trim levels. It's absurd to make something of that size effectively a 4-seater if you have any cargo to haul (say, camping gear or luggage for a road trip). I have 3 kids and one would always be stuck in the 3rd row and my cargo area would be decimated.
> 
> Honda's overall lack of configurable options really kills their appeal. Toyota is the same way with the Highlander. If you want the extra options of the higher trims you can kiss that 3rd passenger spot in the middle row goodbye.
> 
> That's why I ended up with a Durango R/T. I hadn't owned a "domestic" brand since 1988, but the domestics certainly have a huge edge over the Japanese when it comes to vehicle configuration options.


How has that Durango been? We had a Jeep year ago and while it was reliable there was always something about it that my wife and i didn't like. Don't know what it was but it was almost like over the top with options and crap but none of them were done particularly well. For example, they said it had the upgraded radio with NAV and while that was true, it was laggiest (is that a word) and most incorrect NAV I have ever seen.


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## richyrich999 (Oct 20, 2008)

giantsnation said:


> How has that Durango been? We had a Jeep year ago and while it was reliable there was always something about it that my wife and i didn't like. Don't know what it was but it was almost like over the top with options and crap but none of them were done particularly well. For example, they said it had the upgraded radio with NAV and while that was true, it was laggiest (is that a word) and most incorrect NAV I have ever seen.


Funny that the Durango came up here - I just got back from a three day, 2000km road trip with a brand new Durango GT rental and I was impressed. The V8 engine was lovely - really peppy, awesome roar when accelerating and decent mileage. The interior had everything we needed and everyone was comfy (six people in a seven-seat version). All in all a decent vehicle and I'd consider getting one, something I would never have thought if you'd asked me before. The only thing that needs to change is the arrival of CarPlay - I don't get the Dodge/GM approach to entertainment systems - icons and weird touchscreen buttons all over the place and no sense of usability. I understand CarPlay is coming and once it's there I think I'd test drive one of these whenever the Canadian Touareg situation gets sorted.

EDIT: One other thing I didn't like was the headlights - at night I had one of those "am I really on high beam?" moments - compared to my Touareg HIDs they really suck. Maybe there's better ones higher up the range.


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## sedelstein (Jul 13, 2017)

edyvw said:


> This last thing you mentioned is something I still do not get it. I talked today with service manager here in Colo. Spgs. about Atlas (Tiguan was in service for blower motor resistor, first thing to break in 66K). Here at least, sales numbers are abysmal and he also thinks it is because of power plant, and altitude here does not help (they sold 1 (ONE) last month).
> So, with brand loyalty at lowest point in decades (at least since issue with Audi transmissions in 80's) VW decided to offer underpowered car and with that turn away many traditional customers, and trying at the same time get Toyota, Honda etc. customers who are usually sticking to their choice like fly to the ****.
> My in laws have 2009 Honda Pilot. They are uber slow drivers who managed to go thru 3 sets of rotors and pads in 60k (I attribute that to horrid brakes Honda put on the car), front differential, and of course VVT issue although car was regularly serviced in Honda dealership. My wife's mom (driver of that Pilot) does not want to drive my wife's Tiguan because, read this, she is afraid of it (not to mention she does not want to come 5 ft or closer to my BMW). So, are those customers VW had in mind with Atlas?
> If so, they can already write that car off.


The sales have been abysmal most-likely due to the production pauses. Theres a bunch of people that have been waiting since earlier in the year for orders.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

sedelstein said:


> The sales have been abysmal most-likely due to the production pauses. Theres a bunch of people that have been waiting since earlier in the year for orders.


I would say that people who are waiting for delivery are those who bought car. But, we will see.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

edyvw said:


> I would say that people who are waiting for delivery are those who bought car. But, we will see.


If you haven't taken delivery, you haven't brought it yet. Those people actually are reservations and don't count towards sales numbers until they complete financing and drive off the lot. 

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## JohnNS (Sep 21, 2015)

capclassicv2 said:


> If you haven't taken delivery, you haven't brought it yet. Those people actually are reservations and don't count towards sales numbers until they complete financing and drive off the lot.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


But that logic doesn't fit the narrative...


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

capclassicv2 said:


> If you haven't taken delivery, you haven't brought it yet. Those people actually are reservations and don't count towards sales numbers until they complete financing and drive off the lot.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk


Ok, if you say so.


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## sedelstein (Jul 13, 2017)

I'd bet most if not all Atlases sold have been bought off the lot or showroom floor. Because production has been so limited until recently, some engines, some options, some trim levels have been unavailable. In proportion to how many vehicles that dealers have been allotted, these have been selling very well. When you compare the sales of these with the typical Highlander and Explorer, its a different story. However, you can't expect them to sell 20,000 of these things a month when they have barely 1/4 of that amount currently on lots. Especially when that 1/4 sells so fast.


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## RedHotFuzz (Nov 16, 2015)

giantsnation said:


> How has that Durango been? We had a Jeep year ago and while it was reliable there was always something about it that my wife and i didn't like. Don't know what it was but it was almost like over the top with options and crap but none of them were done particularly well. For example, they said it had the upgraded radio with NAV and while that was true, it was laggiest (is that a word) and most incorrect NAV I have ever seen.


The Nav system does indeed suck. I just wish mine had CarPlay. Great vehicle overall. A few cheapo interior trim details that are a real head-slapper but no real issues otherwise. The LIDAR was replaced under warranty and I worry what costs will be for those types of failures out of warranty. But that's not a Dodge thing - those expensive gizmos are industry-wide. If I were to do it again I would probably forego all the gee-whiz options. It's a great drive and sounds fantastic. Best-looking 3-row out there IMO with the exception perhaps of the Volvo XC90.


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## rodolan (Jan 17, 2007)

jkueter said:


> It's too bad the CX9 wasn't a little bigger because that would have been a serious contender when I was shopping.


We're just starting to shop and I keep going back to the Mazda for it's interior and peppy engine but I can't get over how small it feels behind the wheel. I'm 6'3 and 250. Hoping the Atlas gains a lil more power and tightens the steering a bit


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## JohnNS (Sep 21, 2015)

edyvw said:


> I would say that people who are waiting for delivery are those who bought car. But, we will see.


2800 Atlas sales in August.. looks like the production pause idea was correct...


...go figure.


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## F128 (Sep 1, 2017)

JohnNS said:


> 2800 Atlas sales in August.. looks like the production pause idea was correct...
> 
> 
> ...go figure.


Production 400 per day in Aug...


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

F128 said:


> Production 400 per day in Aug...


The Atlas is also exported from Chattanooga. So not all of that is built for this market.

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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

Exported? The Atlas is a North American model only and produced in Chattanooga. 

The cousin to the Atlas is the Teramont but this is a China Market only produced in China.


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## DJMcGoven (Mar 2, 2007)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> Exported? The Atlas is a North American model only and produced in Chattanooga.
> 
> The cousin to the Atlas is the Teramont but this is a China Market only produced in China.


Is the Atlas not in Russia yet? 

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## der_apoteker (Mar 27, 2017)

The Russian atlas with tdi is or will be manufactured in Tennessee 

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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

F128 said:


> Production 400 per day in Aug...


For the sake of argument, that is 12,000 vehicles a month. Not sure that can be swallowed by NA market. 


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

der_apoteker said:


> The Russian atlas with tdi is or will be manufactured in Tennessee
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900R4 using Tapatalk


Not sure were this information is coming from and according to the Volkswagen web site in Russia. There is no Atlas in their line up.


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## der_apoteker (Mar 27, 2017)

http://www.autonews.com/article/20161128/OEM01/311289995/vw-to-export-u.s.-built-atlas-to-russia

November 28, 2016: 
Volkswagen will export the seven-seat Atlas crossover to Russia from the United States starting at the end of next year, a source close to the company told Automotive News Europe.
The Russian market version will be equipped with a 2.0-liter diesel engine, according to the executive, who has knowledge of VW's product plans. It is unlikely that the new model will be sold in Western Europe, the executive said.

also here
http://www.trucktrend.com/news/1611-volkswagen-atlas-getting-tdi-but-only-for-russia/

http://europe.autonews.com/article/...vw-will-sell-u.s.-sourced-atlas-suv-in-russia


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

der_apoteker said:


> http://www.autonews.com/article/20161128/OEM01/311289995/vw-to-export-u.s.-built-atlas-to-russia
> 
> November 28, 2016:
> Volkswagen will export the seven-seat Atlas crossover to Russia from the United States starting at the end of next year, a source close to the company told Automotive News Europe.
> ...


I think they are right, Atlas will be offered there. TDI makes sense since Russian emissions standards are almost non-existent. 


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

der_apoteker said:


> http://www.autonews.com/article/20161128/OEM01/311289995/vw-to-export-u.s.-built-atlas-to-russia
> 
> November 28, 2016:
> Volkswagen will export the seven-seat Atlas crossover to Russia from the United States starting at the end of next year, a source close to the company told Automotive News Europe.
> ...



Thanks for the update. I was at the factory in Chattanooga and there was no mention of the Atlas being exported so I can only go by the official word.

Find it interesting that Russia would not get the made in China Teramont. They do share a border. Also there are no TDI engines at Chattanooga.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

Wow. The Atlas outsold the Pilot in Canada last month. 802 vs 653


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## F128 (Sep 1, 2017)

Hajduk said:


> Wow. The Atlas outsold the Pilot in Canada last month. 802 vs 653


where did you find those data?


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

F128 said:


> where did you find those data?


http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/09/august-2017-ytd-canada-vehicle-sales.html


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## F128 (Sep 1, 2017)

Hajduk said:


> http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2017/09/august-2017-ytd-canada-vehicle-sales.html


Great information source. Thank you Hajduk


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Hajduk said:


> Wow. The Atlas outsold the Pilot in Canada last month. 802 vs 653


Great advantage of Atlas over Pilot is user friendly infotainment system and ordinary gear lever. Honda made that gear selection so complicated that made BMW engineers jealous.


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## Hajduk (Jan 24, 2000)

edyvw said:


> Great advantage of Atlas over Pilot is user friendly infotainment system and ordinary gear lever. Honda made that gear selection so complicated that made BMW engineers jealous.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Another advantage is that the Atlas doesn't look like a lifted minivan


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

Hajduk said:


> Another advantage is that the Atlas doesn't look like a lifted minivan


Or drive, steer and handle like one!


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> Or drive, steer and handle like one!


True, but Atlas is also far from something that resembles car. It could be, but I think VW purposely softened it for Highlander, Pilot crowd. 


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

edyvw said:


> True, but Atlas is also far from something that resembles car. It could be, but I think VW purposely softened it for Highlander, Pilot crowd.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Agreed. Drove the Pilot and felt like a minivan. Not just the soft suspension, but it's clunky with unresponsive steering. That's okay if you like the feel of a minivan.


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## MadeinChattanooga (Mar 15, 2018)

*Pilot steering really loose on test drive*

I was all set to go with the pilot. I went to the dealer for a look and was happy with all the bells and whistles including the 3rd row leg room. Then we went on the test drive and on the highway the steering felt very floaty and almost delayed in response. Almost felt like a safety issue. Put me off the Pilot. I also checked out the CX9. It was fine and somewhat better interior but felt smallish compared to the Atlas.


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## ribbit (Jun 4, 2012)

I will becoming from a Touareg TDI,so I have to give up a lot when I trade mine in. I will buy an Atlas when they put a Turbo V-6 from Audi in place of the 10yr old FSI engine.,or I'll just buy a Audi Q5 3.0 since I have no need for the 3rd seating.


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

We drove the Pilot, CX9, and Traverse. The Pilot was simply "blah". Plenty of power, drove fine, but just "blah". Third row more limited and entry/exit from it not great. The CX9 was again, too small in the third row and zero cargo room behind it. I didn't care for the sound of the turbo 4...plenty of power but again, sounded liked a mid-90s Chevy Cavalier.


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## *DesertFox* (Sep 26, 2017)

ribbit said:


> I will becoming from a Touareg TDI,so I have to give up a lot when I trade mine in. I will buy an Atlas when they put a Turbo V-6 from Audi in place of the 10yr old FSI engine.,or I'll just buy a Audi Q5 3.0 since I have no need for the 3rd seating.


I believe the 2018 Audi Q5 only comes with a 2.0 TFSI here in the US.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ribbit said:


> ......will buy an Atlas when they put a Turbo V-6 from Audi in place of the 10yr old FSI engine......


You have your facts really wrong. How would you suggest the Audi V6 fit in a MQB platform? Do your homework. The current EA888 *Gen3* 2.0t is only 2 or 3 years old. Again, check your facts.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

KarstGeo said:


> We drove the Pilot, CX9, and Traverse. The Pilot was simply "blah". Plenty of power, drove fine, but just "blah". Third row more limited and entry/exit from it not great. The CX9 was again, too small in the third row and zero cargo room behind it. I didn't care for the sound of the turbo 4...plenty of power but again, sounded liked a mid-90s Chevy Cavalier.


So what'd you think of the Traverse?


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

snobrdrdan said:


> So what'd you think of the Traverse?


I couldn't believe we walked into a Chevy dealerhip . It was very good. I would say it was our second choice over the Hyundai or Mazda. Very roomy. Good power. Nice road manners. We didn't like a few bits dealing with moving the second row seats forward to access the third row. Just not huge Chevy style fans as well.


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## jpik (Sep 11, 2017)

So I'm new here and still in my decision process, but why is there all the talk on this thread about no SEL's and no deals? My dealer just called to let me know they got an R Line SEL in priced at 40K and change. That seems pretty decent.

I've been all over trying to narrow my selection down, though I never even looked at the Pilot, the basic look of it never did much for me.:

Atlas: love almost everything about it, except no sunroof until the SEL trim and no Fender audio until SEL Premium. (my wife has both in her Alltrack SE, so I was bummed)
Tiguan: Also at the top, mostly because I can go SEL Premium and still be 6K under an SEL Atlas
Ford Edge: Ford surprised me (in the high end Sport), actual leather, but I found the center column just gross aesthetically
CX-9: engine was fun, interior in GT is really sweet, 2nd row had less room than a Tiguan, and 3 row was silly in my opinion, this car looked way bigger than it actually was to me. Infotainment sucked (being nice)
4Runner: If Toyota would bring this thing into 2018, I would have gone this way, I was wanting something truck-like in the beginning, and this is a truck basically
Traverse: eh, the model I looked at had cheap chrome overload, Chevy just does nothing for me.
Hyundai: don't even remember the model, just felt like it needed a big update to the interior.
Jeep: hell I even checked out the new redesign wrangler... optioned it to 50K and I laughed, and laughed. I can't see that price at all.

I wasn't looking at anything with a CVT since I just went through those headaches in my Subaru.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

KarstGeo said:


> I couldn't believe we walked into a Chevy dealerhip . It was very good. I would say it was our second choice over the Hyundai or Mazda. Very roomy. Good power. Nice road manners. We didn't like a few bits dealing with moving the second row seats forward to access the third row. Just not huge Chevy style fans as well.


Just curious because I'm a pretty big/loyal VW guys (12 new VW's over that past 9 years) and thought I'd end up with an Atlas, but we didn't & I ended up with a Traverse a few weeks ago

We looked at the Mazda, but didn't drive it, and it was too expensive (lease wise)
The Atlas leasing wasn't that great either and after I finally drove it, I was disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I *LOVE* the 3.6 in my Passat....but it didn't feel as good in the (big) Atlas.
After driving the Traverse & seeing the lease numbers, that sealed the deal on it

I'm not a total Chevy/GM guy, but it's a nice vehicle for the money and will do the job (of hauling kids/family)


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## TIGSEL (Dec 22, 2011)

I am currently leasing 2016 MDX. While I like how it drives I would not recommend it nor the Pilot. I’ve had way too many problems with it and still have possibly another major one to deal with (transmission and possibly engine replacement). 


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## sedelstein (Jul 13, 2017)

TIGSEL said:


> I am currently leasing 2016 MDX. While I like how it drives I would not recommend it nor the Pilot. I’ve had way too many problems with it and still have possibly another major one to deal with (transmission and possibly engine replacement).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This isn't the first time I've heard similar sentiments from the owner of a modern Honda. It's sad. It's like they aren't even the same company anymore.


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## dgleeds (Jun 29, 2013)

ussr1023 said:


> I really don't understand why is so many people saying VW has a bad reliability. Like where does that come from???



Same here I have 9 new VWs over the years and never had any substantial problems. Most have had no warranty claims.


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

TIGSEL said:


> I am currently leasing 2016 MDX. While I like how it drives I would not recommend it nor the Pilot. I’ve had way too many problems with it and still have possibly another major one to deal with (transmission and possibly engine replacement).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


But...but Consumers Reports. Japanese good...German BAD!!!


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## Burningmustard1 (Dec 7, 2017)

jpik said:


> So I'm new here and still in my decision process, but why is there all the talk on this thread about no SEL's and no deals? My dealer just called to let me know they got an R Line SEL in priced at 40K and change. That seems pretty decent.


I have been looking for a SEL R-Line, at about the 41K mark, and it doesn't seem like there are many. May I ask which dealer this was?


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> But...but Consumers Reports. Japanese good...German BAD!!!


I would suspect that if you really look at the data, the German cars like VW are not as reliable in terms of rate of issues as the Japanese makes...on average and using large populations - obviously in any population of cars regardless of make there will be issues. Doesn't mean I won't buy them, but the data are likely against you here and why CR doesn't often recommend them. CR is all about "reliability" over all else just like MT and C&D are all about driving dynamics over all else.


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## TIGSEL (Dec 22, 2011)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> But...but Consumers Reports. Japanese good...German BAD!!!


Both made in America


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

I don't disagree with the data from CR. What I disagree with... is the data is collected from a small percentage of *their subscribers*


But are German cars actually unreliable? Paragraph 5 of JD Powers findings disagree.

Summary: _The myth suggests that these German brands produce unreliable vehicles, but actual long-term dependability results do not lie. Lately, German makes have been producing reliable vehicles, and the belief that they are unreliable should remain as nothing more than a myth._ 

Agreed VW is not mentioned but we are discussing German cars vs Japanese cars.


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## prenvw (Mar 1, 2018)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> I don't disagree with the data from CR. What I disagree with... is the data is collected from a small percentage of *their subscribers*
> 
> 
> But are German cars actually unreliable? Paragraph 5 of JD Powers findings disagree.
> ...


I used to think Honda is great until we had a CRV. It was a piece of crap. It shakes at low speed or highway speed. The dealer was so incompetent and kept asking us to replace tires, wheels all at our own cost but the problem was still there. I traded in for the Atlas and I am so happy I did it. We also had am Acura MDX which had lots of problems after 80K. I came back to VW because of the Sportswagen TDI we had. We had to return it due to the diesel gate but every one in the family loved it for the 5 years we had it. It did have two repairs in 5 years: starter and ac related, but still we like the solid feel/drive it has over Honda. At least we felt safe! I think Honda is giving up a lot to chase for fuel economy. Given the 6 yr warranty, I think we will do well with the Atlas.


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## sayemthree (Mar 2, 2006)

lets see.... Japanese engineers commute on the train to work. German engineers drive the autobahn . any questions?


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## OZ.IN.USA (Jan 29, 2011)

sayemthree said:


> lets see.... Japanese engineers commute on the train to work. German engineers drive the autobahn . any questions?


How about a comment:

Japan Speed Limit: 80 to 100 kph

Germany Speed Limit: 130 kph to no limit


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## sayemthree (Mar 2, 2006)

OZ.IN.USA said:


> How about a comment:
> 
> Japan Speed Limit: 80 to 100 kph
> 
> Germany Speed Limit: 130 kph to no limit


Yep. Exactly my point


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## gthoffman (Oct 27, 2014)

Alright, I get this hasn’t been active since 2018, but I found this link when shopping for a new vehicle in the past month and now have an opinion since I made a purchase.

As context, I’m coming from a 2008 Toyota Highlander Sport, made in Japan. I just traded it in with 230k miles on it, from 7 when I bought it new. Got $4,900 from the VW dealer towards my new 2019 Atlas SEL-P. Additionally my wife and I love her 2014 GLI Edition 30 so VW was high on our list. 

My 2cents:

Living in fear these last 5 yrs about German reliability concerns from family and friends, we have had awesome luck to date on the wife’s car. Of course it only has 34k miles, but it is a lot of fun to drive and handles better than any other non-luxury small car we’ve driven. My wife has even asked lately about an APR tune... here we go. 

Toyota:
We as I said, have had awesome luck w our Highlander, with one major asterisk. The HLs of my body style had a horrific catastrophic failure w high pressure oil lines blowing and draining the oil out of an engine ASAP. My brother had it happen to his so I know it isn’t a rumor. I notice oil squirting out of the oil line because I saw a spot on my garage floor, ordered new part for $180, installed it myself, back to normal. BUT, that could have cost me the whole vehicle. We loved the HL from our otherwise lack of repair bills, spending less than $2k on it over 12 yrs for true repairs not including regular maintenance. So I went HL shopping as part of our purchase. 
My thoughts: 
- the center console is ugly and hard and dysfunctional
- there is absolutely no room behind the 3rd row
- the front end on the new 2020s, and really the general body shape is IMO ugly and unnecessarily bloated
- the 4Runner which looks better has even less room in it.
Verdict: Pass

Honda:
My wife and I both grew up on Honda Accords, she the got an old Lexus ES300, and I got a 2003 Acura TL-S, that at 46k miles dropped second gear on the side of the road. New transmission and I traded that baby for the HL mentioned above. But the fear of VW reliability drove me back here and we drove the Pilot that this thread is mainly centered around comparing. 
My thoughts:
- Pilot has more power and its noticeable but not a “gotta have” 
- the seats in the Pilot are no where as comfortable as the Atlas. And we’re talking top of the line units for both, the VW seats for my frame that much better. I’m 6’4” and 215lbs, and my wife commented that it looked like I was sitting in a chair 2/3 the size it should have been
- let’s talk design for a second. The new Pilots are the best of the current style, but Jesus people, we don’t need swoops and curves in places it doesn’t make sense. The outside of the Pilot IMO is ugly and won’t age as well as their previous body style will. Win one for VW and the Audi-like dashboard cleanliness and exterior shaping.
- sunroof/rear entertainment: sure the top Pilot model has a large second sunroof, but they needed a second sunroof because they put that silly entertainment center in the ceiling no matter what. For our use case our kids use iPads on road trips so they can do more than stare at the same movie together, and they never get them driving around town. It would have been a feature I would have wanted deleted but again it’s not an option. So the second sunroof is just glass w a moveable shade. No thank you, give me that giant Atlas sunroof please and thank you. 
Verdict: Pass

Hyundai/Kia:
Quick responses here as they were briefly considered. The new Telluride looks awesome but I have a mental block in purchasing a Kia period. Sorry, can’t do it. It was a super discount brand when it arrived and I know it’s nice looking but I could do it. For the Palisade, that design is all kinds of wrong IMO. The front end is ugly, the vehicle looks fat to me and the rear windows are weirdly pinched to me. 
Verdicts: Passes

Atlas:
Ok, I’m on the VW forum, so I bought one. I like how it rides, love the sunroof, love the new 21” wheels, AND the dealership we bought it from was great to work with. Any new VW sold there comes w a Lifetime Powertrain Warranty, and we picked up the Warranty Wrap for Bumper-to-Bumper for an additional $2200, and my wife even negotiated the price to include lifetime oil changes at the dealership. Considering we kept our last SUV for 200k+ miles, that might be worth 20 oil changes for us, $70/each, or $1400, making the warranty wrap about $800. There goes fear, we’re covered as far as I can see so let’s drive the wheels off this baby . 

The only thing I didn’t really address of concern to us was cost. All of these vehicles loaded were MSRP ~$50k. We got the Atlas for $43,xxx, and could only get a Pilot to $46k, and didn’t enjoy it as much. The new HLs aren’t even out yet so my above thoughts are about both with a consideration that price won’t drift up much in the 2020s. We feel like we got a lot for our money and hopefully it continues to be a great vehicle for us, 2000 miles in already in 2 weeks! 



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