# Tiguan brakes problem



## TigDriver (Nov 30, 2008)

I posted this in the Tig section already but maybe here are more xperts:
My girlfriend now encountered a brake problem twice so I thought maybe one of you guys might know about it:
In those situations she needed to brake but the pedal was really stiff, did hardly move and the car did not brake. Only long hard pushing finally succeeded. The second time she nearly got into an accident because of this so we took the car to the dealer then who found nothing and said the brakes are ok.
I drove the car the first 5k miles and never had such a problem. Auto Hold was switched off all times.
Sounds familiar to anyone?


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Sounds like a booster/vacuum problem. Possibly the check valve on the vacuum line going into the booster.


_Modified by KG18t at 12:38 PM 7-30-2009_


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## TigDriver (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (KG18t)*

Thank you for the hint! Is that something VW service should find when they are checking it?


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## TigDriver (Nov 30, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (TigDriver)*

Ok, today this phenomenon happened the 3rd time to my Girlfriend!
Luckily still no accident...
We did some research in the largest German Tiguan forum as well and this topic is being discussed there as well! Apparently that happened to several other drivers, they brought the cars back to the dealer but they did not find anything.
As the 10k Miles inspection is due know I will bring in the car again and address this topic again. Nevertheless, it does not look like VW has a solution for this dangerous effect!


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (TigDriver)*

Report the problem to the NHTSA. They handle government safety issues and can force a recall or investigation. they may also be able to tell you if there's an active invertigation or if there have been other reports of problems.
A single trouble report is not going to trigger a NHSTA Investigation. It takes several complaints before they will get involved, and that means people have to report the problem to the NHSTA when it happens. 
Your local VW Dealer is never going to admit there's a problem.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (germancarnut51)*


_Quote, originally posted by *germancarnut51* »_Report the problem to the NHTSA. They handle government safety issues and can force a recall or investigation. they may also be able to tell you if there's an active invertigation or if there have been other reports of problems. 
A single trouble report is not going to trigger a NHSTA Investigation. It takes several complaints before they will get involved, and that means people have to report the problem to the NHSTA when it happens. 
Your local VW Dealer is never going to admit there's a problem.
 
I always love your advice








He's 100% correct, you obviously have a problem, and I would highly recommend she stop driving her car, its now worth her nor anyone elses life, this is a serious issue. 
Now I would doubt that its actually is a booster issue, because you don't need a booster to stop your car, I'm sure she is freaking out and pushing as hard as she can. to provide adequate brake pressure.. I would serious look at the calipers, they may be binding causing them not to slide properly.... 
I would take the car to the dealership, explain the issue that it keeps happening intermittently... I would also state, "don't tell me there is nothing wrong, there obviously is a problem,... rather you couldn't find the problem" 
I would serious hate to be a vw brake engineer these days..... these newer vehicles of all models seem to have endless brake issues time after time


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## NJTig (Nov 15, 2010)

*Power brakes don't always react*



TigDriver said:


> I posted this in the Tig section already but maybe here are more xperts:
> My girlfriend now encountered a brake problem twice so I thought maybe one of you guys might know about it:
> In those situations she needed to brake but the pedal was really stiff, did hardly move and the car did not brake. Only long hard pushing finally succeeded. The second time she nearly got into an accident because of this so we took the car to the dealer then who found nothing and said the brakes are ok.
> I drove the car the first 5k miles and never had such a problem. Auto Hold was switched off all times.
> Sounds familiar to anyone?


Got a 2010 Tig end of June. Same brake issue from the day I bought it..at times only long hard pushing stops the vehicle..scary to say the least. When I tap them, they respond as power brakes. In an emergency, there is no time to tap brakes to make a quick stop. Took it to the VW dealer twice..couldn't duplicate the problem...said nothing's wrong. E-mailed VW Corp. a few days ago. Waiting for a reply. Brakes also squeak backing up..was told it was a morning moisture issue..not so..they do it all the time. Right window rattles. Had Jeep Grand Cherokees..never had a problem. Love my Tig's look and the way it rides/ holds the road..too bad I can't get it to make a safe stop. Looking to get rid of it soon.


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## EuroSportChicago (Jun 9, 2010)




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## NJTig (Nov 15, 2010)

*Repost by NJTig*

Went to BBB with this problem. Took 14 months to resolve. I refused to give up..had to represent myself as I couldn't afford an attorney. VW Corp. refused to give credence to my driving the vehicle and that of my salesman; we both noted the problem. Even the BBB driver who drove it at the hearing noted a problem. FIRST hearing decision..VW was to fix the brakes. How could they fix a problem they refused to recognize was my thought and I was right. For two months, VW did nothing..not even contacted me as if I never existed. They were in breach of contract. SECOND hearing decision..VW had to repurchase the vehicle. I don't want this car to be bought at auction by some unsuspecting individual, so I posted the Tiguan's VIN (WVGBV7AX4AW535194) and the problem with CARFAX and the NHTSA. At auction, someone would only see beautiful car with low mileage. What they won't see is its hidden danger..a major brake problem. Can't believe how disrepectful I was treated by VW; they played Russian Roulette with my life. As a result, I just ordered a 2012 BMW X3 with all the money I got back and VW also had to pay off the remainder of my lease. I lost no money. To my surprise, my insurance premium is LESS than what I was paying for the Tiguan, because BMW cars are so well made, they are given a cost coverage discount. Go figure..a better more expensive car, cheaper insurance premium..same coverage. A win all the way around.


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## fastinradford (Aug 3, 2010)

attempting to work through a tiguan with these problems, I'll update if I find anything worth adding, but sounds like a design issue.


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

*FV-QR*

To me it sounds like the car lost it's vacuum assist. This could be caused by a leak in the tubing between the brake booster and the vacuum pump or like and earlier post, the check valve. These engines have vacuum pumps, like the TDI's, but I don't remember hearing about any pump failures.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

EuroSportChicago said:


> seriously, what just happened to a plain ol' hydraulic system


 Just for the record... regulations and engines is what happened. DI and FI motor's act differently especially at high altitudes, these motors tend to have very low vaccum in some situations.... also hybrids, stop start tech, and electric vehicles... when this technology changes your old plain hydro system will no longer work as it once did.


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## GTI0811 (Aug 2, 2007)

TigDriver said:


> Ok, today this phenomenon happened the 3rd time to my Girlfriend!
> Luckily still no accident...
> We did some research in the largest German Tiguan forum as well and this topic is being discussed there as well! Apparently that happened to several other drivers, they brought the cars back to the dealer but they did not find anything.
> As the 10k Miles inspection is due know I will bring in the car again and address this topic again. Nevertheless, it does not look like VW has a solution for this dangerous effect!


Wow... I thought it was just me, I was driving my friend's Tiguan and the same thing happened to me 2-3 times. And it only happened when traffics in front of you slow down all the sudden and you have to press down on the brake pedal harder than usual, and it felt like there was a force limiting the pedal from traveling downward. But if you press hard enough, the car still slows down fine. Every time right after it happened, I would get on a straight road and perform some HARD braking, and everything worked fine there........:sly:
I thought my friend's Tiguan was the only one...


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## guten_tiguan (Dec 9, 2011)

GTI0811 said:


> And it only happened when traffics in front of you slow down all the sudden and you have to press down on the brake pedal harder than usual, and it felt like there was a *force limiting the pedal from traveling downward*. But if you press hard enough, the car still slows down fine.


This is exactly what I have noticed as well during application of the brake pedal in medium (just slightly more than light braking) or hard braking situations. 

Perhaps it's because we're coming off the gas pedal and applying the brakes in lesser amount of time when doing medium/hard braking, so what we may be feeling through the brake pedal is less vacuum assist available than usual. Just a theory and am still trying to figure this one out.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

guten_tiguan said:


> This is exactly what I have noticed as well during application of the brake pedal in medium (just slightly more than light braking) or hard braking situations.
> 
> Perhaps it's because we're coming off the gas pedal and applying the brakes in lesser amount of time when doing medium/hard braking, so what we may be feeling through the brake pedal is less vacuum assist available than usual. Just a theory and am still trying to figure this one out.


Its a good thought, although with DI motors the throttle (of the actual gas pedal) and throttle plate are no longer coupled together at the same rate. The throttle position will change as the engine goes through various conditions. I bet if you drove around with a vac sensor on your booster you would see the low vac. everytime you had a reduce brake feeling. What I mean by this is it makes no effect on the time frame between gas pedal and brake as the booster will hold vacuum. 

My thought: if you have a brake apply and extinguish the booster's vac, then have a cruise condition where the DI motor is at low engine speed but high throttle (this is exactly why DI motors have low vacuum) increasing fuel efficiency, reducing engine vacuum... and you go back to a brake apply

Most likely the threshold of low vac to vac pump activiation has some gap which is noticable by the driver.


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## guten_tiguan (Dec 9, 2011)

GTijoejoe said:


> Its a good thought, although with DI motors the throttle (of the actual gas pedal) and throttle plate are no longer coupled together at the same rate.


Thanks for the great explanation. Learn something new everyday! 

Does the Tiguan have a two-stage brake servo? From what we're observing, either it does not or is not operating as intended (from what I can gather reading in the link below).

http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/mas...novation/assistance_systems/brake_assist.html (last paragraph)


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

guten_tiguan said:


> Thanks for the great explanation. Learn something new everyday!
> 
> Does the Tiguan have a two-stage brake servo? From what we're observing, either it does not or is not operating as intended (from what I can gather reading in the link below).
> 
> http://www.volkswagen.com/vwcms/mas...novation/assistance_systems/brake_assist.html (last paragraph)


I do not believe it does.
Basically it has a normal booster with a vacuum pump. The pump is suppose to kick in under some low vac. threashold to refill the booster with adaquate vacuum level. The boost assist of the booster is dependent mainly on vacuum level.

Everytime you press your brake pedal, ambient air will enter in the boosteer through the cabin, this allows the pressure delta between the vacuum side of the booster's diaphram to actually get assist. If you pump your pedal 2-3 times you will completely depleat your booster of all vacuum, so if your engine stalled, you may only have 2-3 brake applies before its unassisted. 
Now with a DI motor, it goes through various vacuum swings because of the two main combustion processes the engine has, during such, it will open the throttle a large amount which basically drops your vacuum level.

So, if you use your brakes, than the engine is in a low vacuum mode and the vac pump does not kick on, than the next time you use your brakes you may have a sudden drop in brake assist, which is what I believe is happening.


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## revinkevin (Feb 8, 2013)

*Tiguan brake fault*

Hi new to this forum, my wife has an 08 2l idesel tiguan, she has complained about a brake fault, pedal goes hard low action, drove it myself, its dangerous has read the posts but all we have is diagnosis but whats the cure does the servo pump require replacing, the car has done about 75k miles has had issues, water leak from sun roof, radio needed replacing and the worst was the rear susspension arm bushes failed, took it to dealers over 6 time after my local garage diagnosed the problem at 40k miles, its like VW are in denile and 2 dealers were:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:, any way anybody know what the cure is, repalce servo, I have checked the vac pipe no splits; thanks kevin


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## radlynx (Jan 4, 2007)

I agree, less insurance but more expensive to repair.



NJTig said:


> Went to BBB with this problem. Took 14 months to resolve. I refused to give up..had to represent myself as I couldn't afford an attorney. VW Corp. refused to give credence to my driving the vehicle and that of my salesman; we both noted the problem. Even the BBB driver who drove it at the hearing noted a problem. FIRST hearing decision..VW was to fix the brakes. How could they fix a problem they refused to recognize was my thought and I was right. For two months, VW did nothing..not even contacted me as if I never existed. They were in breach of contract. SECOND hearing decision..VW had to repurchase the vehicle. I don't want this car to be bought at auction by some unsuspecting individual, so I posted the Tiguan's VIN (WVGBV7AX4AW535194) and the problem with CARFAX and the NHTSA. At auction, someone would only see beautiful car with low mileage. What they won't see is its hidden danger..a major brake problem. Can't believe how disrepectful I was treated by VW; they played Russian Roulette with my life. As a result, I just ordered a 2012 BMW X3 with all the money I got back and VW also had to pay off the remainder of my lease. I lost no money. To my surprise, my insurance premium is LESS than what I was paying for the Tiguan, because BMW cars are so well made, they are given a cost coverage discount. Go figure..a better more expensive car, cheaper insurance premium..same coverage. A win all the way around.


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## moses_dx (Oct 1, 2014)

Will it be possible to replace the brake pump with the one used in s3?

I want to upgrade my brakes, since it's not as good as i want it to be


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

moses_dx said:


> Will it be possible to replace the brake pump with the one used in s3?
> 
> I want to upgrade my brakes, since it's not as good as i want it to be


In a tiguan? It's possible I suppose, but I doubt anyone's bothered.  That won't do much to upgrade your brakes unless you throw a different master cylinder on it. If you want to stop faster, get better brake pads.


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## moses_dx (Oct 1, 2014)

Maybe the master cilinder in s3 is bigger as well. I don't think stiffer brake pads will help, they will probably just overheat rotors.

The problem here is that there is not enough pressure in the system, I have a c4 with a little smaller rotors and the pedal is very responsive, only need to press a little and the car slows down very quickly


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

You're not going to overheat rotors... Look at a good set of hawk ceramics or akebono's. Or, if you don't mind the noise and dust, hawk HPS or HP+. You'll stop faster, I assure you. Messing with master cylinders only needs to be done when you're really screwing with the system. I wouldn't recommend it, unless you're planing on throwing thousands into this. Just go with fresh rotors and good pads.


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## moses_dx (Oct 1, 2014)

I tried ebc pads in my c4, thinking it would make the car brake even better. I only got terrible noise when braking and the rotors are being heavily trashed, I should have bought the standard ferodo pads.

I'm going to try with a larger brake pump first. I'll probably won't be touching calipers since I use 16" rims for off-road driving


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## KG18t (Aug 9, 2006)

moses_dx said:


> I tried ebc pads in my c4, thinking it would make the car brake even better. I only got terrible noise when braking and the rotors are being heavily trashed, I should have bought the standard ferodo pads.
> 
> I'm going to try with a larger brake pump first. I'll probably won't be touching calipers since I use 16" rims for off-road driving


have fun with that.


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## moses_dx (Oct 1, 2014)

Anyone tried fitting rs4 brakes in a tiguan? I've just got my hands on some rotors and calipers, they look very sexy


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