# Phaeton W12 with a troubled cam adjuster



## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

I'm looking for advice on where to start attacking a W-engine VVT problem. I get occasional cam-adjuster slow-response DTCs and also bank 3 and bank 4 catalytic converter trouble codes, often at the exact same time (same mileage in the freeze-frame). The engine bank 2 exhaust adjuster is quite lazy and jittery as compared to the other three adjusters.

Ideas:

1) VVT adjuster solenoid screens? The W12 shares the same VVT mechanism as the infamous Passat W8.

2) Cam position sensor? I often get crank-angle readings several degrees above or below the theoretical maximum.

3) Tensioner or guide rail failure? A loose chain might explain the high "jitter", plus the out-of-bounds crank angles.

Here is a representative sample of what I'm seeing. Yellow represents the commanded angle. Gray represents the actual angle as reported by the cam position sensor. Green represents the adjuster solenoid duty cycle. The yellow and gray lines should be almost exactly the same at all times.

Engine bank 1 exhaust adjuster, good. The bank 1 and 2 intake adjusters track just as nicely.










Engine bank 2 exhaust adjuster - bad:










Here's an auto-scan for Jack.  Please disregard the fuel-pump relay, TPMS and T15/T30 low voltage codes. They are from other testing and work.

Thursday,23,January,2014,20:11:24:05280
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: Release 12.12.0 (x64)
Data version: 20130910


VIN: WVWAK03D868005728 License Plate: 
Mileage: 117900km-73259mi Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3D (3D - VW Phaeton (2002 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWAK03D868005728 Mileage: 117900km/73259miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP1.lbl
Part No SW: 07C 906 018 AJ HW: 000 000 000 00
Component: D1-6.0L-AT-LEV2 G ª6722 
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZ3Z0F7470400
Coding: 0000173
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 6DDBB2F477855E764F5-5120

4 Faults Found:
001072 - Catalyst System; Bank 2 
P0430 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - Intermittent - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 10100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 11
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 112608 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2017 /min
Load: 35.7 %
Speed: 108.0 km/h
Temperature: 94.0°C
Temperature: 30.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.335 V

005441 - Fuel Pump Relay (J17) 
P1541 - 004 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 117902 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 749 /min
Load: 51.4 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 88.0°C
Temperature: 38.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.557 V

012306 - Relay for Fuel Pump 2 (J49) 
P3012 - 004 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
 Mileage: 117902 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1402 /min
Load: 34.5 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 88.0°C
Temperature: 38.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.557 V

006435 - Please Check DTC Memory of ECU Number 2 
P1923 - 008 - 
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 117902 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 81.0°C
Temperature: 47.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 11.684 V

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 3D0-927-156.lbl
Part No: 3D0 927 156 AB
Component: AG5 01L 6.0lW12 USA 1010 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 68D5C3E058677B5E3C3-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 3D0 614 517 AK
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0047 
Coding: 0008397
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 6BDFBCEC49915046511-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 137 C HW: 5WK 484 97
Component: G1 Kessy 6700 
Revision: 67006015 Serial number: VWZ3Z0F7470400
Coding: 0213228
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 275780DC95F9B426F59-5120

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 4E0 905 852 E
Component: ELV 1940

1 Fault Found:
00955 - Key 1 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 759 CA
Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1720 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 77F7909C05D9E4A6A59-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 008 Q
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0223 
Coding: 0500345
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 285583E098E7BB5EFC3-5120

2 Faults Found:
01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 J
Component: Climatronic D1 2031 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 254B8AD4EFF5A636C75-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb
Part No: 3D0 937 049 H
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5101 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 02605 444 64790
VCID: 2F6768FCBD09EC663D9-5120

1 Fault Found:
00907 - Intervention load Management 
000 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP2.lbl
Part No SW: 07C 906 018 AJ HW: 000 000 000 00
Component: D1-6.0L-AT-LEV2 G ª6722 
Revision: --H01--- Serial number: VWZ3Z0F7470400
Coding: 0000173
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 6DDBB2F477855E764F5-5120

4 Faults Found:
012952 - Catalyst System; Bank 3 
P3298 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 9
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 112608 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2350 /min
Load: 40.8 %
Speed: 126.0 km/h
Temperature: 104.0°C
Temperature: 20.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.208 V

012953 - Catalyst System; Bank 4 
P3299 - 002 - Efficiency Below Threshold - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 9
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 113502 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2439 /min
Load: 45.5 %
Speed: 131.0 km/h
Temperature: 99.0°C
Temperature: 17.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.081 V

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
P0300 - 008 - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 117354 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 708 /min
Load: 25.9 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 9.0°C
Temperature: 6.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.589 V

000786 - Cylinder 12 
P0312 - 008 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 117354 km
Time Indication: 0

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 697 /min
Load: 32.9 %
Speed: 2.0 km/h
Temperature: 12.0°C
Temperature: 6.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.335 V


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 H
Component: 04 Airbag 8.4E++H01 0554 
Revision: BB38727 Serial number: 0006635< 
Coding: 0012340
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 285583E098E7BB5EFC3-5120

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D0 959 339 
Component: BF-Gewichtsens. 006 0005

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 3D0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 3D0 953 549 E
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 3401 
Coding: 0000232
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2F6768FCBD09EC663D9-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 982 B
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB8 0521 
Coding: 0005221
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 275780DC95F9B426F59-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway K<>CAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: F0E52B80E0B7339EE43-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 28: HVAC, Rear Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 158 F
Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E5975F8BA03E56E36F-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) 0001 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E6C94DD8D273ED2E8EF-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V2.clb
Part No: 3D0 907 553 C
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C3V0 1122 
Coding: 0005531
Shop #: WSC 53212 053 999999
VCID: 275780DC95F9B426F59-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 760 CA
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1720 
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 6FE7A8FC7D89AC667D9-513C

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 F
Component: NAVIGATION 0168 
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 3777509C455924A6659-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 C
Component: Dachmodul 0708 
Coding: 0000015
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 234F94CCE1C15806A91-5120

2 Faults Found:
00220 - Connection to Sunroof 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00926 - Terminal 30 
001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 158 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) 0001 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E7D740DCD579F426B59-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: X3 HSG 0102 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 03325 444 13946
VCID: 336F648C5121C886591-4AE6

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D1 959 701 L
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 6001

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 3D1 959 702 L
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 6001

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 3D0 959 703 K
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 6001

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 3D0 959 704 K
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 6001

Subsystem 5 - Part No: 3D0 909 610 C
Component: 3L HDSG 2330

Subsystem 6 - Part No: 7L0 907 719 A
Component: Neigungssensor 0020

5 Faults Found:
01325 - Control Module for Tire Pressure Monitoring (J502) 
004 - No Signal/Communication
00927 - Terminal 30 (Right) 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
01516 - Terminal 30; Left 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00926 - Terminal 30 
011 - Open Circuit - Intermittent
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 466 A
Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0118 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 20459BC0F0D7431EB43-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: 3D1-955-119.lbl
Part No: 3D1 955 119 A
Component: Front Wiper 2005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 275780DC95F9B426F59-5120

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
Part No: 3D0 915 181 D
Component: Batteriemanagement 2800 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 244D97D0E4CF5F3ED0B-5120

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D0 915 181 D
Component: Batteriemanagement 2800

No Faults Found
or DTCs not supported by controller
or a communication error occurred

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: 3D0-919-283.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 283 D
Component: 03 Einparkhilfe 0907 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2B5F7CEC89119046111-5120

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Thank you for posting the auto-scan 


Authenticated please commence....



Content was vacated by JACK :heart:


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

[email protected] Parts said:


> Thank you for posting the auto-scan


And thank you for taking a look!



> False air leak and so would a bad CAT....or fuel output.


Fuel trims are fairly solid, close to zero add and a couple percent mult on all banks.

When it's bad enough to throw a code, the most common set is an exhaust cam adjuster slow-response DTC and bank 3 and/or bank 4 catalytic converter efficiency DTCs at the exact same time (same freeze-frame mileage). I've actually seen it throw a bank 2 efficiency DTC at the same time (as you see in my scan) which I can't explain. The slow-response DTC, particularly at the same time as the efficiency DTCs, strongly implies a causal relationship or at least something that needs to be eliminated before I replace three of four cats.

I also have a mild vibration under light to moderate load around 1800-2000RPM. It feels like a light misfire. It's not speed related, so it's not wheel balance. I think it's related to this problem but I can't prove it yet.



> I would verify the adjusters, chains/rails if noisy and failing basic setting tests.....


This is where I was heading. I'm willing to be convinced otherwise, but right now I think I'm holding compelling evidence of an adjuster or position sensor problem. I was hoping someone might recognize a signature in that second graph that would narrow down the problem set before I am forced to tear it open. Right now I don't know what I'm looking for.

One time long ago, I did hear something *VERY* nasty at startup (~2 years ago), very loud banging. It's possible that's when the problem started, because I've been seeing this on-and-off for a long time, but I can't be sure. Other than that, there are no noises during normal operation. 

I was hoping (if you could call it that) that the solenoid screens might be clogged or dislodged, but that doesn't explain the beyond-max high and low readings I get.

A cam position sensor would be a quick and easy job, but I would think the ECU would flag missed/extra hall-effect impulses and mark the sensor bad fairly quickly.

Except for one thing, I would say the chain on that side is loose due to a bad tensioner or lost guide rail. It would explain the jitter/slop and the laziness, and the beyond-max high and low readings. However, the intake adjuster tracks nicely and according to the repair manuals, that's the side with the tensioner where any slack chain should be sitting.

Basically I'm at a loss.

Jason


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Content was vacated by JACK :heart:


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

[email protected] Parts said:


> Sludge oil possibly.......


She's gotten pretty good service. Dealer for the first 30K, and then me at the specified intervals. The problem has persisted through four OCIs: one with Castrol Syntec 0w30, one with Castrol SLX Professional 5w40, and two with M1 0w40. All were chosen because they meet or exceed VW 502.00.



> Have you tried performing an oil thinner and lube chain rider that helps these type cars?
> 
> Sometimes I take SAE regular oil non synthetic and get the rings and inside coated...... then after a very short drive change oil again with vw spec.


I have not. I am pretty leery of any mechanic-in-a-bottle solutions for this engine. Among other reasons, I do have a bit of extended warranty left. I'm mainly trying to lead the dealer to the problem since they weren't able to fully track it down last time I had it in.

Jason


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Content was vacated by JACK :heart:


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

[email protected] Parts said:


> If it has extended warranty I would use it if getting adjuster codes.
> Make them fix it.


That is exactly my intent. However, last time I brought it in, the very nice and competent tech working on it spoke with the VW tech line and the result was this: they've only gotten three complaints of this code in total, and try changing the oil. He had done a number of Passat W8 cam adjuster jobs so I trust what he has to say. So, that's all that's been done so far. The DTCs take a while to pop up so it couldn't be reproduced in the time they had it afterward, and I actually invited them to hang onto it and take it home a night or two.

I'm trying to find something clear and replicable to put their finger on -- THIS thing here, fix THIS. The crappy adjuster performance is crystal-clear on a graph and easy to replicate, so that's a great start, but I am interested in further root cause analysis before I bring it in.

Jason


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Content was vacated by JACK :heart:


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

[email protected] Parts said:


> Just make sure the adjuster faults and complaints are listed on your repair orders.
> 
> This way when even if it does make it outside warranty they will be responsible with the documentation in hand.


Yeah, they've got it on record for at least one visit and I've got the paperwork.

I've now done some exploratory surgery. I believe I can rule out a chain or tensioner problem. I always had trouble believing this since there was no sign of problem on the intake side, but it's nice to confirm. The upper glide rail is intact. I can look down the back and see almost all of the lower glide rail. It seems intact too. I can't see all of the tensioner rail but I see no signs of problems, no debris anywhere, no signs of impact. The chain is reasonably well tensioned. I can only move it a tiny bit by hand, and it springs back nicely. With the exhaust adjuster solenoid out, I used a wrench to rotate the exhaust cam through its 22deg range of motion. It didn't really feel like it was resisting or binding up.

Everything looked real pretty inside. No oil sludge or varnish, no abnormal wear. I am very happy with the oil's performance. However, it appears the intake and exhaust cam adjusters have separate inlets and screens so I can't rule out poor oil pressure to the adjuster solenoid.

I have reviewed some more logs and I think the beyond-max angle readings might be a red herring. I have learned there is an adaptation process that takes place at idle where it learns the basic position of the camshaft. If the camshaft doesn't consistently sit in its basic position with the solenoid de-energized, then it may adapt wrongly. I've seen things happen in VC-Scope that lead me to believe this is the case.

I examined and bench tested the solenoid itself with a 6V wall-wart. It activated every time, but I didn't think its range of motion was completely consistent. Also, at least one of the O-rings looked like it had a flat spot, so it may be leaking up/down on one side. So, I am not very confident in the solenoid and its O-ring seals. The "good" news is it's more finicky lately so I should have no problem replicating it for the dealer. The bad news is VW doesn't sell the solenoid or O-rings alone; they only sell the whole timing case assembly with both solenoids pre-installed. Replacing the whole timing case would require dropping the engine, which is Kind of a Big Deal on this car. Even if the warranty company is writing the checks I'd rather avoid it.

Jason


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

That unapproved American hose clamp on that hose says someone isn't using correct hardware when doing repairs in that picture...... someone was there tampering for sure.

Those clamps should be outlawed......:heart:


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

[email protected] Parts said:


> That unapproved American hose clamp on that hose says someone isn't using correct hardware when doing repairs in that picture...... someone was there tampering for sure.
> 
> Those clamps should be outlawed......:heart:


Well spotted. The someone is me. I've been using a conventional hose clamp there since doing 40K mile maintenance. It's a vacuum line to the intake, and the intake has to be removed in order to access the spark plugs. The OE clamps are just about impossible to remove without cutting them off, so that's what I did. 

Jason


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Source zebra/norma screw type.....

or 

Crimp type even pex clamps would be better in HD or Loews.

Those clamps create problems whether small air leaks in or out and should never be used for fuel....

They cut hoses from sharp outer edge and the actual fastener rail is like a cutting blade....

They get a family feud X

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5atPYaxX0lM&list=PL2E29F7D7DB67A22D


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

[email protected] Parts said:


> Source zebra/norma screw type.....
> 
> or
> 
> ...


Good advice, thanks.

Would an Oetiker 18500060 kit be the right thing to order if I want to install factory-correct clamps? As long as I'm ordering good clamps, I may as well go fully legit.

Jason


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

Correct and Wurth also has several types of different crimps with additional shims inside to observe anti chafe while getting a positive lock and beyond a 360 crimp.

I use these for fuel they provide surface clamp 300 to 300 degrees.

These are not my ebay stores below.

example: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crimp-Type-...594?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564e43a1a2


http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOOL-HARLEY...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4acfbfa7f7&vxp=mtr


See how this tool is dual action unlike the kit on amazon? Crimps from sides and in center.


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## lgibson (Jun 13, 2007)

*Vag 1275*

See how this tool is dual action unlike the kit on amazon? Crimps from sides and in center.[/QUOTE]

Jack,
Would u say this Harley plier is superior to the VAG1275 featured in Erwin?


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## [email protected] Parts (Nov 27, 2006)

I actually don't have that VAG tool to give an opinion unless it's like the one I have .

I have the Hazet dual into third action and a really old unit from KD tools I like a ton...... because it has additional leavers to engage leverage, with two breaker bars for really tough crimps.

Some of these clamps say for CV are a bear to crimp..... even for me, and I'm pretty strong.


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