# You might be an alcoholic when...



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Even your car runs on alcohol!















Devils Own DVC 30 kit purchased from BSH http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








(beer not included with order, lol)








































































I will be installing the kit later this winter, but I was just excited to get the kit in the mail!
I am still debating if I want to go with 1 nozzle, or go for 2 smaller nozzles for better atomization...Thanks goes out to [email protected] for setting up the group buy, the guy that started the GB thread on golfmkv, and to [email protected] for taking my order and answering my questions.


_Modified by ViRtUaLheretic at 11:35 PM 12-29-2009_


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (ViRtUaLheretic)*

BSH TB Pipe:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (ViRtUaLheretic)*

reserved


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## Draddog_nai (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (ViRtUaLheretic)*

I've heard that once you install water/meth you can't go back. Something about the engine "needing" it from that point on. Is this true?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (Draddog_nai)*

LoL, I think its more like the driver "needs" it haha
srsly tho, I havent heard anything like that


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## mercavius (May 16, 2002)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (ViRtUaLheretic)*

I imagine that the software adapts for it. I'm sure it will just adapt right back when you remove it.
And why didn't you tell anyone else about this group buy (or at least how come I didn't know about it)? I would've def picked this up.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (mercavius)*

Sorry, didnt think to post it here, it was on golfmkv








Hit up Phil or Justin and see if it is too late to jump on the GB bandwagon...


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## NEW2B (Dec 1, 2006)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (ViRtUaLheretic)*

how much was it?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (NEW2B)*

I believe the GB was for $315, Id have to check again...


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (ViRtUaLheretic)*

Correct, $315
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...09221


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## Rolando_TX (Oct 14, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (ViRtUaLheretic)*

Isn't Bsh supposed to release a full bolt on Water/meth kit for the TSI??


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (Rolando_TX)*

Oh boy! In for progress! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: You might be an alcoholic when... (Rolando_TX)*

I talked to BSH about their plans and they are going to provide an adaptation to this exact kit. They are also going to offer an intro special for the ppl that participated in the GB, so its a win win.
The BSH kit is going to have a TB pipe with a bung prewelded in for the w/m sprayer. I am going to hold out on the install untill they release this piece, but it should be too much longer. In the meantime I have a slew of other parts to install....


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

EJ pipe has a WM bung.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*

Ive read that they do offer that, but BSH has been good to me and I am going to checkout what they have up their sleeve.
Phil is VERY knowlegeable about w/m and you can see that as he posts some great info on just about every w/m thread on golfmkv
I have bounced some questions off of Phil and Justin when I was calling them about buying the DVC30 kit, great guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Murder'd (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (ViRtUaLheretic)*

I have heard that, on at least the FSIs, the alcohol corrodes the plastic throttle plate until you eventually need a new throttle body. Some people run straight water with good results, just thought I'd might mention it here.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Murder'd)*

I havent heard that at all, and I have read through every thread i can find on w/m on golfmkv....


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ViRtUaLheretic)*

so where are you mounting your tank with this setup or are you tapping into the windshield fluid tank?

i'm sort of a newb to w/m but from what i've read so far i will definitely be in for this when BSH releases their specific kit, nothing like truly maxing out my stage 2+ setup!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Ricky Bobby)*

I havent finalized the location for the pump yet, but there is a fantastic DIY PDF file floating around where the guy installed the pump somewhere behind the passenger side rear grill vent. it will be a PITA to remove the front bumper and install it somewhere in there, but should be too bad.
After talking with Justin and Phil @ BSH they convinced me to just run off of the stock WW fluid tank. The stock tank holds 1 gallon, and should be plenty of w/m.
I wont start the install untill BSH releases their TB pipe which shouldnt be too much firther away, but the install should take place in late winter or early spring.
Oh and I plan to put the DVC controller module in the extra mini dash cubby compartment that you can purchase from ECS tuning or oempl.us


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ViRtUaLheretic)*

So how often do you think you'll be replacing the meth in the tank with the stock washer fluid reservoir?

Maybe I should be asking Phil or Justing these questions, but also what are the pros and cons of the Devil's Own vs Snow's meth kits? I see the Snow kits are significantly more expensive but they do say they are "2.0t specific", I don't know what that means.
Also, your kit you don't have to tap into ECU harnesses or anything do you? I know there was a thread somewhere about kits having more things to tap into than others.

Sorry for all the questions I read through that 9 page thread on golfmkv and still have plenty lol.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Ricky Bobby)*

i have a fairly long commute to work and back (just under 50 miles a day), and the stock WW tank should last me 3 or 4 weeks as per rough estimates (i drive in rush hour and dont have much chance to open her up on the highway to and from work).
The DVC30 kit is boost based and does not need to be spliced into he ECU (minus a power wire obviously). There are 2 settings to set on the DVC30 the min and max value. The min value is when the w/m kit begins to start a partial spray the w/m (should be 3-5psi), the max value is when the kit starts a full spray (around 11psi).
The DVC30 is a universal kit and can be adapted to any forced induction vehicle with relative ease.
i strongly suggest you read up on al of the w/m threads on golfmkv. Devils Own also has a VERY informative forum section that you can poke around in and read up on: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/forum/


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ViRtUaLheretic)*

sweet bro thanks for the info.

i'm definitely gonna be reading up and keeping an eye out for when bsh releases their full kit with TB pipe.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Ricky Bobby)*

I started on the install yesterday, I routed the wiring (not connected yet), created the bracket to mount the pump (still need to install it), an I drilled the WW tank and inserted the nozzle to suck in the w/m to the pump. I should tie up all those lose ends this weekend and then I will just be waiting for the BSH TB pipe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (ViRtUaLheretic)*

Wow its been 2 months since I started the install, im still waiting on the BSH TB pipe to complete the install.
However I have made some more progress, I installed the mini dash cubby and have the DVC30 controller nicely tucked away inside so its nice and stealthy.
This was a must as I am taking my car in for the carfree 30k mile maintenance in 2 days. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lookin4trouble (Jun 14, 2008)

Why not just jury-rig the stock Y-Pipe for now while you're waiting for the BSH piece?


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## 01gtiaww (Jan 31, 2006)

*Re: (lookin4trouble)*

How will you be adjusting timing once ur water/meth is installed? I'm used to my mk4 1.8t and I know you have to advance timing via lemmiwinks or unisettings but I don't know if it's still done that way for the mk5.


_Modified by 01gtiaww at 7:59 AM 4-7-2010_


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## jcolletti (Jul 7, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (ViRtUaLheretic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ViRtUaLheretic* »_
After talking with Justin and Phil @ BSH they convinced me to just run off of the stock WW fluid tank.

I apologize, perhaps this is a stupid question but...
So are you using the stock washer fluid tank and stock placement - and sacrificing having windshield squirts? Or are you using an additional washer tank?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (lookin4trouble)*

Incase I revert back to stock I want to have the option to put the stock TB pipe back on so untill then I will just wait for the BSH TB pipe.
I tapped the stock WW tank. Windshield Washer fluid is basically w/m with some added dye for color and some cleaning elements so the w/m mixture does a decent enough job for cleaning the windshield.
To take advantage of the w/m I am going to run the APR 100 octane program.
There is no advanced custome user tuning for the TSI motor as Revo was the only company that had this option on the MKV FSI and they didnt include this functionality in the TSI tune.


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## 08 passat turbo (Mar 29, 2008)

*Re: (ViRtUaLheretic)*

heres a link of the install http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4722344 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (ViRtUaLheretic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ViRtUaLheretic* »_Incase I revert back to stock I want to have the option to put the stock TB pipe back on so untill then I will just wait for the BSH TB pipe.


just pop a hole in the stock one. you can always epoxy the hole, or put a plug in it later


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (ViRtUaLheretic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ViRtUaLheretic* »_
This was a must as I am taking my car in for the carfree 30k mile maintenance in 2 days. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one approaching 30K after owning the car for 1 year. I got 26K + miles on stage 2 and haven't had an issue yet. Please post pics of your install!!!!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

updated the thread with the new BSH TB Pipe I just got in.
w/m kit will be installed this weekend!

P.S. the TB Pipe also doubles as a Vuvuzela, my roommates hated it


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## mylesw42 (Mar 3, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> updated the thread with the new BSH TB Pipe I just got in.
> w/m kit will be installed this weekend!
> 
> P.S. the TB Pipe also doubles as a Vuvuzela, my roommates hated it


Does the coupler hose attach the pipe to the intercooler or the throttle body? I have mine on order so any tips you have during your install, post em up


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

good question, but I dont know the answer lol
I'll be hooking it all up this weekend and trust me there will be plenty of pix


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## conejoZING! (Nov 25, 2007)

You might be an alcoholic when in college you naively name an email address after the practice of drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon instead of having sexual contact (thus being safe) :laugh:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

pic from under car looking at TB pipe:










stock TB mounting location:









Here you can see the stock TB pipe noisepipe & MAP sensor:









custom bracket:









horn relocation bracket:









There was some residual oil in the stock TB pipe/coupler:









removing the stock TB pipe with a T25 or T30 torx (can't remember the size):









Removing the noisepiping makes the whole process a LOT easier:


















Stock TB Pipe coupler is really odd shaped:









Stock pipe vs BSH pipe:


















There was some oil on the MAP sensor:









Mounting the BSH TB pipe I needed two 16mm sockets, as a nice little addition the nut that is provided is a lock nut so you dont have to use loctite:









finished up the wiring:









aded the orange wire to the fuse panel in the engine bay:









tied in the in line fuse:









Then I took my car out for a test drive and managed to blow off the coupler on the bottom of the TB pipe, had to limp my car into the next exit into a Little Casers Pizza to fix it:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

And here are my notes on the installation of the BSH TB Pipe:

I just want to start off and say that the install of the BSH TB pipe wsa really easy and I completed the install without any instructions or guides or anything.
Sadly I can't comment on how much time it took me to complete the install as I stopped several times to do other things and I took lots of pictures during the install. [email protected] said that he can complete the install in under an hour and I can believe that once you know what yo uare doing.

Here are my finidings that can make installing your TB pipe much easier:
1)put the car up on ramps
2) remove bellypan
3) remove lower TB pipe coupler
4) remove the noisepipe (see my pictures for the location where I chose to remove it from)**You dont actually have to remove this pipe but it makes the install a LOT easier
5) Prepare your BSH TB Pipe **If you are using a w/m kit decide on where you are going to mount your nozzle. I chose to do the location after the MAP sensor, closest to the engine. First you should screw your nozzle into the supplied L bracket, once you have those piece together then screw that into the TB pipe (use a little bit of loctite) once that is screwed in then screw in the provided fitting. After that install the other w/m blockoff port (use loctite), and if so desired install the noisepipe blockoff
6) Unbolt the lower TB pipe screw using a t25 or t30 (forgot what size it was)
7) This can get tricky as the stock hose clamps have barbs that keep them secured onto the couplers but now you need to remove the upper hose clamp for the TB pipe. Onec you have the hose clamp loosened you can stick a flathead screwdriver inbetween the clamp and the coupler and pry it so the barbs pop out of the coupler.
8) Remove the MAP sensor connector from the MAP sensor in the TB pipe before removing the TB pipe
9) Again this can be a bit tricky but now you need to pry the coupler off of the TB pipe.
10) once you have done this you can twist and contort the TB pipe and remove it by pulling it down.
11) Once you hvae removed the TB pipe compare the two pipes to see how you will ned the couplers lined up for a proper fitment
12) remove the MAP sensor from the stock pipe and install it to the BSH pipe
13) Remember the MAP sensor plug that you removed earlier? I had to free up some extra room as the connector wouldnt quite reach the new MAP sensor location. Trace the connector back to the loom and you will notice a plastic clamp that holds it back, release the cord from this and it will buy you an additional 3-4" of cable.
14) put the bsh tb pipe coupler on the intake manifold and loosely bolt it up
15) loosely place thebsh tb pipe approx where it needs to go, try to wiggle it into the upper tb pipe coupler if you can (just to hold it in place, we will align it properly later)
16) insert the bolt that secures the TB pipe to the motor. As per my picture you will need two 16mm sockets or a 16mm socket and a 16mm wrench to install. **NOTE do not tighten this bolt down till you have BOTH couplers secured
17) install the map sensor connector
18) run your w/m line to your nozzle
19) install the lower BSH tb pipe coupler semi-firmly
20) install the upper bsh tb pipe coupler
21) double check that both couplers are on secure, if you are satisfied then tighten these down now
22) secure the noisepipe back to the TB pipe
23) secure the noisepipe into place
24) recheck all of your couplers and make sure you have the hose claps on evenly, tightenend down, and are secure.
25) tighten down the bolt securing the TB pipe
26) fire up your car and check for leaks in your TB pipe and/or w/m lines
27) do NOT install the bellypan just yet, do some test runs first and makes sure the couplers can withstand boost before installing the bellypan. You dont want to go for a test drive and blow off a coupler only to find yourself 20 miles from home and no way to fix it. Don't worryI have ran without my bellypan for 6 months, no problem.


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## mylesw42 (Mar 3, 2010)

Good job. So it comes with 2 couplers then? The more I read about w/m the more I think it's going to be in my plans. 

I noticed there's 2 ports, 1 near the noisepipe port which is used for the w/m nozzle. Then there's the MAP sensor port, and one more closer to the bend of the pipe. What is that port for?

Did you plug your noise pipe? Did you notice an increase in turbo spool time and reduction in noise in the cabin? I'm thinking about just leaving the noise pipe off, and we'll see what BSH offers for the DV relocation kit.

So, you are running the APR100 tune, but you're filled with 93 octane. So how does the engine run when you're not in boost and just puttering around town? Is the ECU just adjusting timing based on the fuel it's seeing? And it can adjust fast enough to prevent pre-ignition? Maybe I'll ask in a BSH thread on w/m.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

mylesw42 said:


> Good job. So it comes with 2 couplers then? The more I read about w/m the more I think it's going to be in my plans.


Thanks, I tried my best to cover just about everything to simplify the install for other people.
The BSH TB Pipe reuses the lower TB pipe coupler as it has a specialty fitting on the IC side of the pipe.



mylesw42 said:


> I noticed there's 2 ports, 1 near the noisepipe port which is used for the w/m nozzle. Then there's the MAP sensor port, and one more closer to the bend of the pipe. What is that port for?


There are TWO w/m ports, the noise pipe Y sections, and the MAP plugin port. THe w/m ports are at the far two ends, the noisepipe port is the big Y part branching off the pipe, and th MAP plugin is the squareish port with the screw holes.



mylesw42 said:


> Did you plug your noise pipe? Did you notice an increase in turbo spool time and reduction in noise in the cabin? I'm thinking about just leaving the noise pipe off, and we'll see what BSH offers for the DV relocation kit.


I did not plug the noise pipe with the included screw, I thought about it, but I plan on adding the BSH DV relocation whenever that is released and I dont want to have to worry about trying to remove the blockoff in order to use teh DV relocation. From what I have gathered people see a slight increase in throttle response with the noisepipe blocked off/removed. 




mylesw42 said:


> So, you are running the APR100 tune, but you're filled with 93 octane. So how does the engine run when you're not in boost and just puttering around town? Is the ECU just adjusting timing based on the fuel it's seeing? And it can adjust fast enough to prevent pre-ignition? Maybe I'll ask in a BSH thread on w/m.


Correct I am currently running 93 octane gas in the tank and runnign the 100 octane program.
The engine runs just fine while I am idling aroudn town and barely under throttle. 
Have you ever watched your boost gauge while you give your car a slightl bit of throttle? Our cars have a small turbo and they build boost suuuper fast therefore whenever you decide to accelerate you can almsot guarantee that you are in boost.


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

My setup was almost identical to yours. I tapped the w/w tank in the same spot, and made a custom bracket for the pump as well. The one problem I had with this set-up, is that the tank would not empty completely, and I would never get the low-fluid warning before it stopped spraying. Might have been because these pumps are push-type, and once it stopped getting fluid by gravity (at the highest level where the hose bends), it would stop pumping. 

I would also run the w/w reservoir dry in less than 1/2 a tank of fuel, starting to spray at 5 psi and going full at 10, so I couldn't really run 100 oct file all the time because fear that I would stop spraying.


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## mylesw42 (Mar 3, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Correct I am currently running 93 octane gas in the tank and runnign the 100 octane program.
> The engine runs just fine while I am idling aroudn town and barely under throttle.
> Have you ever watched your boost gauge while you give your car a slightl bit of throttle? Our cars have a small turbo and they build boost suuuper fast therefore whenever you decide to accelerate you can almsot guarantee that you are in boost.


Hmmm, interesting. I re-read the ultimate water meth thread on golfmkv, and my question about engine timing and knock was answered on the first page, lol.

Under normal acceleration, I am usually just moving out of vacuum, but not in to boost. The only time I really get in to boost is under hard acceleration, and yes it does come on quick.

Have you drove around in your 93 tune with the w/m spraying? How do you find that for performance gains, do you notice it like the 100 tune, or is it mostly preventing "doggishness" associated with heat soak?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Aguilar said:


> My setup was almost identical to yours. I tapped the w/w tank in the same spot, and made a custom bracket for the pump as well. The one problem I had with this set-up, is that the tank would not empty completely, and I would never get the low-fluid warning before it stopped spraying. Might have been because these pumps are push-type, and once it stopped getting fluid by gravity (at the highest level where the hose bends), it would stop pumping.
> 
> I would also run the w/w reservoir dry in less than 1/2 a tank of fuel, starting to spray at 5 psi and going full at 10, so I couldn't really run 100 oct file all the time because fear that I would stop spraying.


I had my low level sensor come on after the first 4 days, and about 3/4 a tank, but I took my car out and beat on her for most of Saturday night and Sunday night.
I also noticed myself pushing the fun pedal harder just to feel the difference and monitor the lights on the controller to my boots gauge.
With some more conservative driving the w/m would last longer.
i also need to fine tune when the start and full spray starts. currently I have it set to start at 3, and full at 10. Might turn it up abit, but first I will need to run some logs with vag-com.



mylesw42 said:


> Hmmm, interesting. I re-read the ultimate water meth thread on golfmkv, and my question about engine timing and knock was answered on the first page, lol.
> 
> Under normal acceleration, I am usually just moving out of vacuum, but not in to boost. The only time I really get in to boost is under hard acceleration, and yes it does come on quick.
> 
> Have you drove around in your 93 tune with the w/m spraying? How do you find that for performance gains, do you notice it like the 100 tune, or is it mostly preventing "doggishness" associated with heat soak?


 I can start to build boost under medium acceleration but that is only 2-5ish psi or so.
I have not yet tried out the 93 octane tune with the w/m urned on.
if I was to go back to the 93 octane tune I would prolly back off the controller a bitto conserve the w/m.
Probably switch to setting of start 6 full 13 or so or something of the sort.



On a side note all of te tweaking of the controller shouldnt make a huuuge difference as our tiny snails build boost so goddamn fast.


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## fastgti69 (Apr 26, 2009)

yea my tuner was saying the around the same.. low spray at 7 psi full at 12. so 2 n 3rd gear will feel like boostin the same lmao.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

fastgti69 said:


> yea my tuner was saying the around the same.. low spray at 7 psi full at 12. so 2 n 3rd gear will feel like boostin the same lmao.


 Who was your tuner if you dont mind me asking?
7 psi seems a bit high to start spraying if running a 100 octane program. Were you running a 100 octane program? Everybody i have seen has started spray at 3 or 4 psi if running a race gas program.


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## mylesw42 (Mar 3, 2010)

Installed my BSH TSI TB pipe last night. blocked off the w/m ports, and did the same with the noise pipe, but I did not have a hex key large enough to tighten it down, so I used locktite and didn't get close to the O-ring sealing. Anyway it's not budging and no leaks from what I can see. Seems like my install fitment must be a bit off, because the front mount point for the noise pipe doesn't align anymore, but that's fine it's not moving. Everything is solid.

I was thoroughly impressed on my test drives. Noticeable increase in boost spool time. Overall acceleration felt smoother and there is less noise in the cabin.

What size of hex key do I need to buy for that piece that plugs the noise pipe? I don't see any BSH instructions online yet.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

find a bolt with a head that fits in there, then thread two nuts together to lock them on that bolt. Then use the head of the bolt as the allen for the plug and tighten using a ratchet or wrench on those two nuts you locked together


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Perfect idea, thats what I had to do when installing my wheel studs.

I know I did have the correct socket to thread in that bolt as i did check for that but I decided not to thread that bolt in as I plan on buying the DV relocation as soon as that is released and I dont want to have to remove the TB pipe again and make more work for myself.

Actually now that I think of it, I can probably just remove the noise pipe and get at the bolt hole without having to remove the whole TB pipe...


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## mylesw42 (Mar 3, 2010)

Slayer said:


> find a bolt with a head that fits in there, then thread two nuts together to lock them on that bolt. Then use the head of the bolt as the allen for the plug and tighten using a ratchet or wrench on those two nuts you locked together


Great idea, in fact I did it last night except I used a solid 5/16th 2" coupler nut and a wrench. I think this was way easier than fiddling with multiple bolt/nut pieces. Anyway, I got my plug loose, cleaned up the caked on locktite and then secured it in firmly down to the O-ring. Much better install - now I'm happy.



> Actually now that I think of it, I can probably just remove the noise pipe and get at the bolt hole without having to remove the whole TB pipe...


Absolutely you can do this, I just did. I suggest you try it out tonight, it will take you 15 minutes and you're going to notice a difference. You don't have to remove the noisepipe either, just the couple of mounting bolts (front and one beside the washer fluid), and then you can swing it out of the way to have enough room to work.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I'll add it to the list of things to do tomorrow.
I need to turn down the w/m pump to 150psi, run some logs for my w/m, double check torque specs on RSB, then ill throw in the noisepipe plug, and then oil change.


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## fastgti69 (Apr 26, 2009)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Who was your tuner if you dont mind me asking?
> 7 psi seems a bit high to start spraying if running a 100 octane program. Were you running a 100 octane program? Everybody i have seen has started spray at 3 or 4 psi if running a race gas program.


sorry bro i didnt see this reply lol. he said 7 psi so it will be much safer to run, cause at 3-4 psi i could just be cruising and it will be spraying. he said it can do engine damage if too much goes thru without being burned and fills up the spark plugs with water and ruins the motor lol. so the 7psi was a bit overkill but i get he was setting it up for saftey. i'm just gonna istall all this when i get the BT set up. i have an AEM meth kit just sitting here...

here are my tuners. for ppl in the west side. www.gintani.com or the tuner's site that works with gintanti (ppl who will be installing my kit.) www.oetuning.com tuner from austrailia really knows his $hit 

the tuner tuned an a4 fsi and got 240whp and 250 wtq bone stock on stock turbo! only a dyno tune on a DYNOMAT. which reads very very low at their shop(conservative dyno). his 240whp is ~ 270 whp and 280 on dynojet!

i will try to find a video and dyno slip to prove i know its somewhere on his blog.

and we raced, it was like he was k04...:screwy:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Its official I'm hooked!
Just yesterday I had a new part show up at my house....
(got some other fun goodies over the last week too, OSIR CF hood, and TID DSG paddles but thats another story)
I just got a spare TSI Intake Manifold, can you say Direct Port Water Methanol Setup....

my inspiration:
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=98645

I have been doing a lot of research on a direct port setup and I have been talking with LRF about his setup too...


----------



## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Very nice. I ordered a spare intake manifold for other reasons but I might have to work this into the change over. I almost installed the WM this weekend. Did the BSH mounts instead.


----------



## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

so, Op are you using both nozzles? what size? Also have you logged timing pull while runnig the 100 octane file? I'm trying to figure out where to begin with my kit. Thanks!


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

ryan mills said:


> so, Op are you using both nozzles? what size? Also have you logged timing pull while runnig the 100 octane file? I'm trying to figure out where to begin with my kit. Thanks!


With the DVC30 kit you are supplied wih two nozzles, I selected teh D03 nozzle as per the reccomendations based on here,golfmkv, and the Devils Own forums.
Devils own actually has a calculator program on their forum that can tell you approx what nozzle you should use based upon your engine size, RPM range, max boost. They said that our cars should run right around 3 gal/hr, but with the DO pump preset to 200psi from the factory and with the car running around 13volts instead of 12 volts it runs around 14gal/hr so I set the pump to 150psi which brings me right around 13gal/hr.

I have the single D03 nozzle installed into the bung closest to the TB (post map sensor).

I have done some logging (I need to do more) and my setup shows that I am well within normal operating range, pulling 4 degrees of timing. Cylinder 1 and Cylinder 4 seem to pull more timing and this just re-emphasizes my wishes to build my Direct Port Injection system. You can increase the amount of w/m being sprayed into the motor but that would increase consumption (which I don't want).

With the Direct Port Injection system I plan on using a D0.75 nozzle for each cylinder with a D02 nozzle pre-map installed to a on/off switch solenoid so I can choose when I want to run that nozzle and lower the IATs.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

I sees occasional spikes of 5 & 6 degrees timing pull but nothing sustained like the 1-3 degrees. Are you OP seeing this too when logging? I have seen this more when running base logs in 93 with no WMI then I have on base logs on 93 with WMI. I'm APR stage 2.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I havent ran any logs without the w/m it turned on.
Now that you mention it I am goin to have to do just that.

I basically have a spike in timing, then it gradually gets better, yes.
Cylinder 1&4 are almost exactly the same while cylinder 2&3 are almost exactly the same.
Cylinders 2&3 pull about half as much timing as 1&4.


----------



## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

I'd like to see what your logs look like. I'm just logging block 20 when running methanol, and I'm seeing what I feel is quite a bit of timing pull, but then again, I never logged what the car is doing without methanol, so I really don't have a baseline. I started out with the #5 snow performance nozzle, but I was using about 1 gallon of methanol a day, so I knocked it back to the smallest one, and started logging. Sunday night I took the whole kit out to install it better, so I'll be making a little how to on a pretty nice braket, once my solenoid comes in. :thumbup:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ryan mills said:


> I'd like to see what your logs look like. I'm just logging block 20 when running methanol, and I'm seeing what I feel is quite a bit of timing pull, but then again, I never logged what the car is doing without methanol, so I really don't have a baseline. I started out with the #5 snow performance nozzle, but I was using about 1 gallon of methanol a day, so I knocked it back to the smallest one, and started logging. Sunday night I took the whole kit out to install it better, so I'll be making a little how to on a pretty nice braket, once my solenoid comes in. :thumbup:


 Shoot me a PM with your email and I'll be happy to share the logs with you. You know I'm right up the road in Fred and have my own VAG-COM if you need to spend a weekend afternoon running logs. My understanding is that the #5 nozzle is 375ml and more for stage 3 instead of K04. But that may be up for debate. 

I'M currently running 115-0,2,3 for RPM, specified boost and requested boost and 119-2 for N75 boost pressure control, 134-1,2 for ambient and IAT. and of course 20 bock for timing pull. It's pretty cool to see IATs only rise 2-3 degrees above ambient during WOT 3-4 gear pulls. 

Here's my timing pull at WOT from 3200 - 6160 RPM (couldn't quite get it to redlline) . Looks good right. Okay look at the next section. 

0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	-3	0	0 
0	0	-2.3	0 
0	0	-2.3	0 
0	0	-1.5	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 


Here's me gagging at from 3840 - 4840. What's up with that 6 in cylinder 3? It was right when I let off the gas cause the ECU requested 1300 mbar and I was still at 2100 mbar then requested boost dropped to 300. Not sure why I see it and I don't see it all the time. I just don't know if this can be ignored since it isn't sustained timing pull like the rest of the cylinders reading -3. Anybody got an opinion on this? 

0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	-3	0	-3 
-3 -3	0	-3 
-3	-3	-6	-3 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I havent ran any logs without the w/m it turned on.
> Now that you mention it I am goin to have to do just that.
> 
> I basically have a spike in timing, then it gradually gets better, yes.
> ...


 Kinda like this...with cylinder 1 - 4 going from left to right. This is 3rd gear pull on APR 93 with OEM plugs with 35K tuned miles RPM is 3120 - 6640. Running WMI 225 nozzle start 5 full 10. 

I think it may be time to try the 100 octane file... 


0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	-2.3	0 
0	0	-2.3	0 
0	0	-1.5	0 
0	0	-1.5	0 
0	0	-1.5	0 
0	0	-1.5	0 
0	0	-0.8	0 
0	0	-0.8	0 
-3	0	-0.8	-3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-2.3	0	0	-2.3 
-1.5	0	0	-1.5


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

looks like you are good to go to try out the 100 octane file

I still have to try and log IAT sometime and see what my temps are looking like with the w/m on and off.

Oh and I made some progress on my new intake manifold:
Pic is of half of the sanding done:









I basically just need to start hand sanding the manifold now and start increasing to finer grits.
Should have this done being sanded in a week or two, then ill order up the direct injection kit from Devils Own and drill and tap this beeotch.


----------



## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

ryan mills said:


> I'll be making a little how to on a pretty nice braket, once my solenoid comes in. :thumbup:


 Its in the mail now! :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Blah I saw a post this morning on golfmkv that BSH is going to release an Intake Manifold later this year.
Go figure they make a teaser post the day after I start hacking up a stock intake manifold lol

Ill try and tak ea better picture of my work so far later tonight.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Screw it, you always appreciate something more when you put blood sweat and tears into it. I have a feeling that I might not be spraying. I never tested the nozzle (only the pump) before I installed it into the TB pipe. Just got home after a spirited drive to see that the meth only went down 2 rings on the reservoir neck. Does that sound about right for 45 minutes of spirited driving with a 225ml nozzle? The pump was running a lot with full at 10#. I 

I may still have a small leak in the neck joint so hard to tell if I lost fluid from the leak of the spray. I really don't want to have to **** with the nozzle again for a while. My APR FMIC hose barely was able to fit onto the BSH TB and took two people to apply the correct pressure to crank er down. 

I'm tempted to remove the nozzle but it looks like a bitch to without removing the TB being so snugged up to the MAP sensor.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> Screw it, you always appreciate something more when you put blood sweat and tears into it. I have a feeling that I might not be spraying. I never tested the nozzle (only the pump) before I installed it into the TB pipe. Just got home after a spirited drive to see that the meth only went down 2 rings on the reservoir neck. Does that sound about right for 45 minutes of spirited driving with a 225ml nozzle? The pump was running a lot with full at 10#. I
> 
> I may still have a small leak in the neck joint so hard to tell if I lost fluid from the leak of the spray. I really don't want to have to **** with the nozzle again for a while. My APR FMIC hose barely was able to fit onto the BSH TB and took two people to apply the correct pressure to crank er down.
> 
> I'm tempted to remove the nozzle but it looks like a bitch to without removing the TB being so snugged up to the MAP sensor.


 DO you have a solenoid installed? might want to check that.
If not maybe just try to remove the hose from the nozzle and have a friend rev up your car and see if it sprays.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> DO you have a solenoid installed? might want to check that.
> If not maybe just try to remove the hose from the nozzle and have a friend rev up your car and see if it sprays.


 Good idea I'll give this a shot. But one problem.... 

My kit doesn't spray when the car is revved up in park. Does yours? The instructions below are for the SP kit for testing the controller but the pump didn't activate when I pressed on the vacuum line to the controller. I never saw the controller send power to the pump so I just reinstalled my bumper and took it for the test drive and finally saw power come to my LED when I reached my boost setting so i assumed I was spraying and working fine since this indicated power should now be going to the pump. 

While troubleshooting why the testing of the controller didn't work, I put a multimeter on the wire coming from the controller to the pump and wasn't getting voltage on the pump wire when pressing on the vacuum line during the test sequence. 

Doing the ml to oz conversion for a 225ml nozzle per min at full spray it would equate to 7oz for 1 minute of full spray. Given how much I drove and how many seconds I was over 10# of sustained boost (full spray) I would estimate at least 7oz of juice should be gone so I can't be spraying because 7 oz of fluid didn't leave my tank. 

Begin the testing process with both dials on the variable controller at 
their lowest settings (counter-clockwise). 

· Turn ignition key on so that the system has 12 volt power. If the 
pump runs, inspect ground wires for secure connection. 

· Pump should be off at this point, apply light air pressure into vacuum 
tube connection on back of controller. *Pump should activate while 
low pressure is applied but not enough to completely atomize fluid.*


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Turns out I wasn't spraying. Got that fixed and ran some logs in 93 and 100. Max timing on 93 with meth was 6. Here's some of the worst on 100 w/ meth. I was just cruising on a back road gagging it in 3rd gear, except the first chart. The rest of the charts look horrible. 

Here's my WOT from 1400 RPM to redline in 3rd gear on meth with 100 APR stage 2 (RPM on the right). Looks pretty good except the -6 in cylinder 4. 

0	0	0	0	1400 
0	0	0	0	1480 
0	0	0	0	1560 
-0.8	0	0	0	1640 
-0.8	0	0	0	1760 
-0.8	-1.5	0	-3	1920 
-2.3	-3.8	-2.3	-3	2040 
-2.3	-3.8	-2.3	-3	2280 
-2.3	-3.8	-2.3	-3	2560 
-2.3	-3.8	-2.3	-6	2840 
-5.3	-3.8	-2.3	-6	3080 
-5.3	-3.8	-2.3	-6	3360 
-5.3	-3.8	-2.3	-6	3640 
-5.3	-3	-1.5	-6	3880 
0	-3.8	-1.5	0	4160 
0	-3.8	-1.5	0	4480 
0	-3	-0.8	0	4720 
0	-3	-3.8	0	5000 
0	-3	-3.8	0	5240 
0	-2.3	-3.8	0	5480 
-6	-2.3	-3.8	-6	5680 
-6	-2.3	-3.8	-6	5880 
-6	-2.3	-3.8	-6	6080 
-6	-2.3	-3.8	-6	6240 
-5.3	-2.3	-3	-5.3	6400 
-5.3	-1.5	-3	-5.3	6560 
-5.3	-1.5	-3	-5.3	6680 
-4.5	-1.5	-2.3	-4.5	5000 


2600 RPM - 4320 WOT I had 8 misfires in cylinder 2 and 2 in 3 at the same time I was pulling -8 -9. 

0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
0	0	0	0 
-6	-5.3	-3	-6 
-9	-8.3	-3	-9 
-9	-8.3	-3	-9 
-9	-8.3	-3	-9 
-9	-8.3	-3	-9 
-9	-8.3	-3	-9 
-9	-8.3	-3	-9 
-9	-8.3	-3	-9 
-8.3	-7.5	-3	-8.3 
-8.3	-7.5	-3	-8.3 
-8.3	-7.5	-3	-8.3 

2900 RPM - 3240 

0	0	0	0 
-7.5	-6.8	-3	-6.8 
-7.5	-6.8	-2.3	-6.8 
-7.5	-9.8	-5.3	-9.8 
-6.8	-9.8	-5.3	-9.8 
-6.8	-9.8	-5.3	-9.8 
-6.8	-9.8	-5.3	-9.8 


BARF! 3200 - 3600 

0	-6	-3	-4.5 
-6	-11.3	-12	-9.8 
-9	-11.3	-12	-9.8 
-9	-11.3	-12	-9.8 
-9	-11.3	-12	-9.8 
-9	-11.3	-12	-9.8 
-9	-11.3	-12	0


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

holy crap that looks nasty
I would back off of the 100 octane tune and triple check everything.
What fluid are you spraying?


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> holy crap that looks nasty
> I would back off of the 100 octane tune and triple check everything.
> What fluid are you spraying?


 Boost juice. Not much left to check except messing with my start and full settings.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> Boost juice. Not much left to check except messing with my start and full settings.


 What are your start and full settings?


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> What are your start and full settings?


 4 on full at 10 but really hard to say for sure with the SP controller.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

hmmm, thats what im using


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

did a bit of research...


im usng the D03 nozzle:
3 GPH (189ml/min)

that is at 12 volts to the pump @ 200psi.
Since our cars run at 13volts I set my pump to 150psi to give me 3gph.

Any idea what psi your pump is working at?


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> did a bit of research...
> 
> 
> im usng the D03 nozzle:
> ...


 My pump runs at 150psi. I have 12v going to the pump by tapping slot 5 in the drivers side fuse box(tested on mulitmeter). I'm not sure how or if you can adjust the PSI on the SP pump. My car last dynoed 236whp 279wtq so I figured a 225ml is good 175 is not enough and a 325 is too much. 

Timing pull is 1-3 when running APR stage 2 93 octane w/ no meth and 1-5 with meth with an occasional spike to 6 at start 4 full 10. I usually run shell and filled up with Exxon since I ran low on the highway running logs. I exceed requested boost from 3k to redline and IAT average 2 - 13 degrees Celcius so heat soak is not an issue. I have new plugs and have no misfires issues when I'm running on 93 meth or no meth. I have pegged 8 misfires in cylinder 2 when running the 100 file w/ metanol. The tune and the amount of meth, either too much or too little, is causing misfires. 

Are excessive misfires a sign of too much meth or too little? 

Look at this, BARF!!!. From left to right, columns 1-4 are cylinder misfire, 5-8 is timing pull and 9 is RPM. Anyone - Do I need to start spraying sooner or later to avoid this at low RPM's? 

0	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	2560 
0	6	1	0	0	0	-0.8	0	2560 
0	6	1	0	0	0	-0.8	0	2640 
0	6	1	0	-6	-9	-3.8	-6	2760 
0	6	1	0	-12	-9	-6.8	-12	2720 
0	6	1	0	-12	-9	-6.8	-12	2800 
0	6	1	0	-12	-9	-6.8	-12	2880 
0	6	1	0	-12	-9	-6.8	-12	2920 
0	6	1	0	0	0	0	0	2960 
0	7	1	0	0	0	0	0	2880 
0	7	1	0	0	0	0	0	2840


----------



## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

From the looks of that log the 1-4 columns are total count misfires not instant. I think you need to check EGT and maybe injector pulse for cylinder 2? Have you checked your spark plug in cylinder 2? I would check gap or maybe even pull the intake manifold to see if its a flow problem. I am by no means a genius in this I am just throwing ideas out there.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

05jettagli said:


> From the looks of that log the 1-4 columns are total count misfires not instant. I think you need to check EGT and maybe injector pulse for cylinder 2? Have you checked your spark plug in cylinder 2? I would check gap or maybe even pull the intake manifold to see if its a flow problem. I am by no means a genius in this I am just throwing ideas out there.


 Thanks for your help. I have all 4 plugs gapped at .028 per APR spec. I just installed them last week. I had 15-1,2,3 and 16-1 selected for misfires. I think there is a separate block for total count misfires cause I remember seeing it. How do I check for EGT and injector pulse? 

I ran a second set of logs today using different start and full settings. I had barely any misfires on these pulls but my timing pull was still bad. Ironically, while I was at idle reviewing the first set of logs I threw a MIL. I know there is a TSB (TSB# 2018652/2) on this for us TSI folks so I'm researching to see if I qualify. I have the ABS code intermittently for the last 4K miles but this is a first for the Angle Sensor. Ironically, the I looked at my mileage gauge and it was at 35,997....just 3 miles before being out of warranty! 

What should the proper value be for throttle valve sensor 2 (g188) when in WOT? Here is a 3rd gear pull, RPM on the left, misfires columns 2-5, timing is 6-9, and throttle sensor last column on right. Mine appears to take a major nose dive but this may be normal. 


2880	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	72.3 
2800	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	70.3 
2880	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	68 
3040	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	66.4 
3280	0	0	0	0	-9	-9	-7.5	-8.3	10.5 
3560	0	0	0	0	-9	-9	-7.5	-11.3	52 
3760	0	0	0	0	-9	-9	-7.5	-11.3	45.3 
4000	0	0	0	0	-9	-9	-7.5	-11.3	7.8 
4240	0	0	0	0	-9	-9	-7.5	-11.3	7.8 
4480	0	0	0	0	-8.3	-8.3	-6.8	-10.5	7.8 
4760	0	0	0	0	-8.3	-8.3	-6.8	-10.5	7.8 
5000	0	0	0	0	-7.5	-7.5	-9.8	-9.8	7.8 
5240	0	0	0	0	-7.5	-7.5	-9.8	-9.8	8.2 
5440	0	0	0	0	-7.5	-7.5	-9.8	-9.8	7.8 
5640	0	0	0	0	-12	-7.5	-9.8	-12	8.2 
5840	0	0	0	0	-12	-7.5	-9.8	-12	7.8 
6000	0	0	0	0	-12	-7.5	-9.8	-12	7.8 
6160	0	0	0	0	-11.3	-7.5	-9	-11.3	7.8 
6320	0	0	0	0	-11.3	-6.8	-9	-11.3	7.8 
6480	0	0	0	0	-11.3	-6.8	-9	-11.3	7.4 
6600	0	0	0	0	-11.3	-6.8	-9	-11.3	7.8 
6040	0	0	0	0	-11.3	-6.8	-9	-11.3	7.8 
4960	0	0	0	0	-10.5	-6.8	-9	-10.5	75 


000545 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188): Implausible Signal 
P0221 - 000 -  - - MIL ON 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 11100000 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 1 
Mileage: 57932 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2000.00.00 
Time: 18:20:02 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 785 /min 
Load: 21.2 % 
Speed: 0.0 km/h 
Temperature: 100.0°C 
Temperature: 51.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar 
Voltage: 13.843 V 

Readiness: 0010 0101 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 02E-300-0xx.lbl 
Part No SW: 02E 300 051 C HW: 02E 927 770 AJ 
Component: GSG DSG AG6 431 1815 
Revision: 04843012 Serial number: 00000807011549 
Coding: 0000020 
Shop #: WSC 01269 785 00200 
VCID: 132EA4764B1D 

No fault code found. 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 03: ABS Brakes (-----) Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb 
Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 AE HW: 1K0 907 379 AE 
Component: ESP MK60EC1 H35 0104 
Revision: 00H35001 
Coding: 113B600D49280000881306ED921D0041B100 
Shop #: WSC 01316 785 00200 
VCID: 75EAFAEE65A9 

1 Fault Found: 
01314 - Engine Control Module 
013 - Check DTC Memory 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 01101101 
Fault Priority: 2 
Fault Frequency: 1 
Reset counter: 243 
Mileage: 57932 km 
Time Indication: 0 

Freeze Frame: 
Count: 8 
Count: 32782 
Count: 12800 
Count: 8193 
Count: 49920 
Count: 256 
Count: 0 
Count: 0


----------



## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Plugs sound good but I would still check them since you been running WM and 100 oct file. If it matches the rest then that can eliminate somethings. Injector stuff is 101-109 for vag-com. EGT is 43 I believe. Some of it will be overlapping data.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

05jettagli said:


> Plugs sound good but I would still check them since you been running WM and 100 oct file. If it matches the rest then that can eliminate somethings. Injector stuff is 101-109 for vag-com. EGT is 43 I believe. Some of it will be overlapping data.


 I will check them again and thank you for the blocks. :thumbup: What values for EGT and injectors would you consider acceptable for a 93 and 100 tune?


----------



## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Honestly not sure what values are consistent for the TSI cars. I would more or less compare before and after to see if WM or your gas is a problem. Running really hot would be running lean and running cooler would be really rich. Does


----------



## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

:thumbup:something isn't right. I never saw over -6 degress of pull on my k04 car with the #3 nozzle from snow performance. This was running the 100 octane GIAC file. If you have a boost gauge, hooking up an LED to the positive pump wire helps quite a bit with tuning/tweeking. You don't think the methanol is pooling up at the bottom of your piping and causing issues do you? I know it's a pain to check, but it might be worth looking into. Also Richmond dragway sells 99.996% methanol for $30 for 5-gallons, bring cash on Friday night street car nights. That's 10 gallons of mix for about $35.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ryan mills said:


> :thumbup:something isn't right. I never saw over -6 degress of pull on my k04 car with the #3 nozzle from snow performance. This was running the 100 octane GIAC file. If you have a boost gauge, hooking up an LED to the positive pump wire helps quite a bit with tuning/tweeking. You don't think the methanol is pooling up at the bottom of your piping and causing issues do you? I know it's a pain to check, but it might be worth looking into. Also Richmond dragway sells 99.996% methanol for $30 for 5-gallons, bring cash on Friday night street car nights. That's 10 gallons of mix for about $35.


You're correct, something isn't right and I went into limp mode today! I've checked for pooling and everything looks good. I threw the G188 code while at idle in between running logs a couple of days ago. Since then, I have powered off the pump and running just my 93 file while I did some research. Today I went into limp mode and threw the J338 code and the G188. I also can no longer perform a Throttle Body Alignment due to it erroring out. (I haven't tried this since going limp since I'm not erasing the codes) I saw TBS failing intermittently before the WMI/BSH TB install so unless the TB is dirty, I really don't think this mod caused my problem but only made it more visible by going WOT for all the logs I did. 

My research has concluded the following as possible culprit(s). I ironically started throwing MIL at 35, 997 miles...just 3 miles before being out of warranty. 

I have EPC issues with G188 and J338. Could be many things from the obvious throttle body replacement and/or throttle foot pedal sensor replacement, dirty TB, TB wiring harness issues (TSB# 2018652/2), bad grounds, low battery voltage, failing ECU or bad leads on ECU, bad coilpacks. My dealer is good to me so they will probably warranty it. Or they will see that bright shiny red hose going to my TB pipe and tell me I've gone too far this time. :laugh:

Either way, as of now, it is the only thing to run with as to why my timing was so jacked up. I would like to check out the track in Richmond. I usually go to Buds Creek on Sundays but Richmond is much closer. Plus budds doesn't do the test and tune on Friday nights. So they basically half price the meth on Fridays? That's awesome, all the tuning shops that sell meth in Fredericksburg were pretty pricey so I might have to hook that up once I get everything in order. :thumbup:

Ryan, 05jettagli and virtualathletic - I really appreciate your feedback on my posts regarding my timing issues. Thanks guys. 

TSB# 2018652/2
G188 TSB
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4497260-Our-Tiguan-had-a-melt-down-this-morning...
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107058
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97731
Really good thread 
http://www.evvo.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=17473
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...le-Valve-Controller-malfunction-and-EPC-light
How to log for the g188
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4211775


Wednesday,22,September,2010,18:03:16:22642
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.0
Data version: 20100630



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1K0
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 15 16 17 19 1C 25 42 44 46 52 55 56 65

Mileage: 58180km/36151miles

01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
0F-Digital Radio -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
1C-Position Sensing -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
55-Xenon Range -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000
65-Tire Pressure -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (CCT) Labels: 06J-906-026-CCT.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 AE HW: 1K0 907 115 AA
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0030 
Revision: AAH03--- Serial number: VWX7Z0H63NH8H7
Coding: 0403010A1C070160
Shop #: WSC 01269 785 00200
VCID: 69D2A69E3911

2 Faults Found:
005476 - Throttle Actuator (J338): Under-Voltage during Basic Setting 
P1564 - 000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2111.15.31
Time: 31:63:63

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 0 /min
Load: 0.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 27.0°C
Temperature: 27.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 12.192 V

000545 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle (G188): Implausible Signal 
P0221 - 000 - - - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 58175 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 17:44:51

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2567 /min
Load: 21.6 %
Speed: 21.0 km/h
Temperature: 105.0°C
Temperature: 51.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.462 V


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

moar work on the intake manifold:









3rd and 4th runners are almost done having the casting sanded:









pretty dran smooth (runner 1):









2nd runner:









3rd:









4th:









Im done with the 200 grit on the 4th runner now, time to step up to 300 or 400:









3rd runner is the same way:









good progress:


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

you better paint that intake manifold when you're done! maybe hit it with some "high build" primer before hand. Also I would like to find out what happeens with steel curtains car.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ryan mills said:


> you better paint that intake manifold when you're done! maybe hit it with some "high build" primer before hand. Also I would like to find out what happeens with steel curtains car.


Looking good virtual! 

Ryan - I've been adjusting the pump pressure this weekend with disappointing results. I'm gonna take another attempt tonight. How's that new apr k04 file on meth? LOL


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

ryan mills said:


> you better paint that intake manifold when you're done! maybe hit it with some "high build" primer before hand. Also I would like to find out what happeens with steel curtains car.


Ive been thinking about that, maybe sand down the entire intake manifold and paint it wit hseveral coats of high temp heat resistant paint...


----------



## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

steelcurtain said:


> Looking good virtual!
> 
> Ryan - I've been adjusting the pump pressure this weekend with disappointing results. I'm gonna take another attempt tonight. How's that new apr k04 file on meth? LOL


The 93 octane APR file is more than the 100 octane GIAC file on Methanol. I haven't even tried the APR 100 octane file yet, I'm a little scared. I might try both the methanol and 100 octane tonight, not sure yet.


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## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

I just got my intake manifold today. I just went at it with the grinder and knife. I am leaving the parts where screws go but everything else will be removed and sanded smooth. Will be painted matte black. Yours is looking good though. I got about 50% of the left 2 runners completed.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Well my third round using different pump pressure settings wasn't safe enough on 100. I'm not sweating it though. Tired of beatin on my car so I'm just gonna run it with 93. No sense on blowin it up before I go BT in 6 months!


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ryan mills said:


> I haven't even tried the APR 100 octane file yet, I'm a little scared. I might try both the methanol and 100 octane tonight, not sure yet.


DO IT! You know you want to! Just kidding, log it on 93 w/ meth first man.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> DO IT! You know you want to! Just kidding, log it on 93 w/ meth first man.


Yes yes! do eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet 



steelcurtain said:


> Well my third round using different pump pressure settings wasn't safe enough on 100. I'm not sweating it though. Tired of beatin on my car so I'm just gonna run it with 93. No sense on blowin it up before I go BT in 6 months!


Have yo utried contacting the manufacturer to determine where the screw needs to be for a set pressure? 150psi or 200psi should do it.




05jettagli said:


> I just got my intake manifold today. I just went at it with the grinder and knife. I am leaving the parts where screws go but everything else will be removed and sanded smooth. Will be painted matte black. Yours is looking good though. I got about 50% of the left 2 runners completed.


 Your intake manifold + my intake manifold = a finished intake manifold haha
I cut of one of the screw locations on the 4th runner as that is directly where I wanted to drill and tap for the nozzle.
I want to try and get to the end of the runner so there is still some time so the w/m can properly atomize, and that damn screw hole for that hardline has got to go


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## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Your intake manifold + my intake manifold = a finished intake manifold haha
> I cut of one of the screw locations on the 4th runner as that is directly where I wanted to drill and tap for the nozzle.
> I want to try and get to the end of the runner so there is still some time so the w/m can properly atomize, and that damn screw hole for that hardline has got to go



Yeah like I had mentioned before I wanted to do mine for looks first but now that I thought about it I might as well add that to my function. I am wondering if I can remove the damn intake fins in the manifold without incuring any major troubles. I am half tempted to try it but I am thinking it will require a tune or software. I guess since its a back up manifold I could always rip them out and if that doesn't work but the stock back in.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Therer have been a few ppl with FSI motors that have fully sanded down the intake manifolds and painted them.
You shouldnt have a problem.
I thought about removing all of the casting fins as well, but that s a lot of extra work, and Im not too concerned about the looks of the motor.


----------



## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Yeah I got the idea of the outside from some pics of one of their cars. I wish Eurojet would make a valve cover for the car as ours is too congested with crap. I am talking about the flaps on the inside though. That is what I am worried about removing.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Oh you want to remove the flappers?
I wouldnt do that.
The ECU adjusts the flappers to correct the air/fuel ratio (I believe so).
Your car wouldnt be happy bout that one.


----------



## mikeg6045 (Apr 14, 2010)

05jettagli said:


> Yeah I got the idea of the outside from some pics of one of their cars. I wish Eurojet would make a valve cover for the car as ours is too congested with crap. I am talking about the flaps on the inside though. That is what I am worried about removing.


I'm not telling you what to do, but I would highly suggest you do now remove them. Your car will run horribly if you do so, especially without a tune. even with a tune, it has proven to be unsuccessful (on the BT FSI cars)


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## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Yeah that is likely what will happen. I have made more progress on my intake manifold. I need to go buy a few extra tools to get everything perfect but its coming along well.


----------



## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Almost done with the manifold!!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

where are you planning on tapping for the w/m nozzles?


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## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

As close to the top as possible. I might be waiting on that till I get the WM hardware installed and tested.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I finished up sanding the intake manifold, cleaned out the inside and started to paint the intake manifold:














































The paint:










Now I will have to say the pictures make the intake manifold look a LOT more shiny with a glossy finish, the finish is glossy but not as much as the pictures look


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

you can do better than that man! 

sand the whole thing up so it bonds well, primer it, and then go ahead and paint it. its not going to get that hot, ESPECIALLY with WM in there to require that kind of paint either, so make it classy. 

do it right or you will find yourself probably doing it twice.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I did sand the whole thing


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

shoulda used krylon since it bonds with plastic.. don't need engine enamel on the intake, it doesnt get hot enough


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

We had 4 or 5 cans of this stuff in the garage already and figured what the hell Id go ahead and use it.
Figure it cant hurt and it might just keep temps down a teeny bit


----------



## Banned 4 Life (Jan 25, 2007)

Krieger said:


> you can do better than that man!
> 
> sand the whole thing up so it bonds well, primer it, and then go ahead and paint it. its not going to get that hot, ESPECIALLY with WM in there to require that kind of paint either, so make it classy.
> 
> do it right or you will find yourself probably doing it twice.


 THIS^^^ Kreiger I think you and I are sharing brainwaves or something bro, we both read and respond to the same posts all the time. LOL. How's you car doing? just had the dealer replace my PCV valve and they noticed my BSH Throttle Pipe and no big deal, but they kep t asking what the nylon tube coming from the (w/m)pump is. My response is to just ask another stupid question, then the GM of the dealer came to me( I used to work there, so its all good) and asked me what it was. Well apparently I forgot to turn off my w/m and one of the techs was talking to the service advisor as to howmy car was soo much faster than most lightly modded GTI's and the GM wanted to know how he cold tune his GTI to be the same. Great dealership family owned with an enthusiast for a General Manager= Most mod friendly dealer around(at least for me). This was all started cuz they saw this and drove the car. 

 

and this is what I like to call "Kill Mode" 

 

Here is a pic of of where I mounted my controller.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I have my controller mounted in the exact same spot :thumbup:

Where did you get that button for your setup?
I have been thinking about have a 2 stage system where the direct port injection will always be on but I can press a button and spray in the TB pipe for some extra cooling benefits as well


----------



## Banned 4 Life (Jan 25, 2007)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I have my controller mounted in the exact same spot :thumbup:
> 
> Where did you get that button for your setup?
> I have been thinking about have a 2 stage system where the direct port injection will always be on but I can press a button and spray in the TB pipe for some extra cooling benefits as well


 Got the button from the dealership for $26.00 and $3.00 for the male connector to wire it up. 

If you want to do the 2 stage then here is how I would set it up. Have a main line run into a w/m distibution manifold that has at least 5 outlet ports. Run four lines to your intake mani for the direct port. Run a fifth line to a solenoid block and then run a line out of the solenoid to the TB pipe. Hook a switch up to the solenoid and you can trigger it whenever you want while have the direct port working all the time. I suggest putting a switch on the controller's power line as well so you can turn it off, if you haven't already.


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

car is fantastic and ive been saving gobs of money on gas... been getting regular and saving like 60 cents a gallon... and i refill every other day now. lmao work is so damn far away!!! 

If i could hit my controller any better, I would, but im really torn between keeping this expensive car going with all of the known issues or going into a nice 240sx project and drop in a skyline motor and make crazy reliable power. gotten some CRAZY offers too... :laugh: 

anyways, my controller is mounted on my steering column and stares me in the face... I LOOOVVVEEE watching those lights pop on, wait a second for the timing to advance like crazy and BAM she pulls harder than i have ever seen lately, especially with 70 degree days finally! 

if i do sell the car, the WM and boost gauge are totally coming with me.


----------



## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

I figured I would provide an update on what I think is my problem behind dialing in my WMI. I know I said I was going to forget it but I can't quit now as I am determined to get this thing running right. 

Looks like my fuel pump is taking a ****. Explains my timing issues. I'll be in stock mode until I can replace the pump. Just when the weather is getting cold too, 

http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2694512&posted=1#post2694512 

Krieger - That switch is beast. I'm tired of yanking this damn wire out of the fuse to shut it off.


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

i knew the MKVI would have some fueling issues too... even if it is just a weak pump over time. :beer: 

I think I've decided Im going to keep this car for at least a bit longer, go BT and get her looking pretty and keep her as a nice show car and fun car and later on go buy a POS JDM or even just a shell and build that sucker from the ground up for either show or the track.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Technically I'm an MKV w/ a TSI. Not sure if there is a difference in specified fuel rail with the MKVI.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

That fuel pressure looks fine.. its right around what its requesting.. if it was 20-30 bar below in the midrange or something, then yeah you'd have an issue. Your pump is fine. Look at some FSI logs of the fuel pressure, there's always a huge dip somewhere


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

yeah, fuel pressure looks spot on


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Slayer said:


> That fuel pressure looks fine.. its right around what its requesting.. if it was 20-30 bar below in the midrange or something, then yeah you'd have an issue. Your pump is fine. Look at some FSI logs of the fuel pressure, there's always a huge dip somewhere


 Well darn, I thought I was on to something. Glad to know that the pump isn't failing though but concerned with my timing pull on the 93 file with no meth. It may just be bad gas though.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Virtual - You wouldn't happen to have the TSI intake mani part # do you? I may be replacing it soon but out of warranty so I might not be covered. Nice video on youtube BTW. Stumbled on it while looking for the part. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6McP_FmZ9Lk


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## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Part No.# 06J133201G 

Order from Paul at Keffer. Where I got mine and cheapest place to get it!!!

http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=215844


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

05jettagli said:


> Part No.# 06J133201G
> 
> Order from Paul at Keffer. Where I got mine and cheapest place to get it!!!
> 
> http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=215844


Thanks 05jettagli. :thumbup: Keffer has it listed for MSRP on their website @ $208.00 but I found it on genuinevwparts.com for $60 of MSRP @ $149.76. Should I call and speak with Paul?

Thanks again.


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## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

Yeah no problem. Yeah I would send him a message. He has a code to enter on his site for vortex members. I paid a little more than that shipped to NM. Other part is its a special order part. I waited about a month to get my hands on it.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Thank for covering for me 05JettaGLI :thumbup:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I just ordered all my goodies for my direct port injection setup.

Got all my parts from Devils own.
Im going with four DO.75 nozzles for octane boost and a DO1 nozzle to go in the TB pipe for cooling


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Whats that? Got new parts wooohoo!



























bunch of extra tubing:









Heres a mock up of how the system is going to be setup:
Y split to a check to a Y with both lines going in to the direct port tap post then out to each runner









Another angle (sorry the meth gives me the shakes):









closeup:









direct port tap setup:



























nozzle holder:









four DO.75 nozzles:









one DO1 nozzle (for the TB pipe):









mock up showing the nozzle slightly screwed into the nozzle holder:


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

So its time for me to start installing the nozzles for the direct port setup and Ive hit a small roadblock (due to poor planning).
Basically what the problem is that when I smoothed down the intake manifold I had to cut out the mounting points for a hard line that passes right over the intake manifold.
pic for reference (yeah yeah the motor looks all stock, but I took the pic shortly after I bought my car lol):









In the pic look at the shiny hard line that passes right over the intake manifold.

Now here are the options that I have come up with.

1) I can remove the entire hard line section and replace it with a flexible line, either braided stainles or a durable more flexible line like Earl's Performance Pro Lite hose:








If I were to use the Pro Lite hose I could cut the stock hoses back and convert it over to use this type of line exclusively for a cleaner look, plus then I could reroute the line to get it out of the way.

2) I havent tested to see how much "give" is in the current line but I could move the hard line and secure it to another mounting location via a custom bracket or a folding clasp of some sort.

3) Get a custom hardline bent to replace the stock piece that would use a different mounting point.

What do you guys think?
Im leaning towards using the Pro Lite hose, but im worried about removing the hard line. My concern is why did VW use a hardline at that specific point instead of keeping the rubber hose all the way through?


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

After doing some research the hardline appears to be used for the EVAP system so it shouldnt matter if I use a non hardline.
Its looking like I will relocate the hose under the Intake Manifold then


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## naemcivic (Aug 22, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic, have you had a chance to dismantle the head? I would like to see if the WMI has a positive effect for the carbon buildup issue. thanx.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

naemcivic said:


> ViRtUaLheretic, have you had a chance to dismantle the head? I would like to see if the WMI has a positive effect for the carbon buildup issue. thanx.


 Not yet, I need to finish the Intake Manifold then wait for a good weekend to install it
Im thinking 2 or 3 weeks from now


----------



## guesswho (May 9, 2009)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Not yet, I need to finish the Intake Manifold then wait for a good weekend to install it
> Im thinking 2 or 3 weeks from now


 soooo?


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

guesswho said:


> soooo?


 Ive been trying to source a solution to replace the fuel hardline that attaches to the intake manifold.

I discovered that the 2010+ Tiguans have one 9soft) fuel line that replaces the 3 part fuel line section on our cars, but when I tried to order it from ECS tuning they wanted $100 for it and they had to special order it from Germany with no ETA (even though their website showed it as IN STOCK).

Im just going to follow the nn-OEM route and just buy the same size fuel line from Autozone and replace it.
Im thinking about finishing this up this weekend, then I can finalize the intake manifold to be installed.

Then all I need is a 3 day weekend to remove the manifold and clean the valves. the nreinstall.


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## guesswho (May 9, 2009)

awesome dude... keep updating! :thumbup:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Oh I will, I love keeping build threads and logs and taking pictures and stuff.

Sadly, it snowed today so I doubt Iwill be wrenching on the dub this weekend.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I got off my lazy @$$ and got cracking on the direct port injection intake manifold....
(Thanks for the motivation "guesswho" on vortex!)

drileld the pilot holes:









Closeup:









Drilled out the holes larger:



















I used a spare piece ofwood to test out th ecorrect size of the hole and the threading for the tap before I drileld and tapped the intake manifold:









Tapping the threads on the manifold:









Test fitting the nozzle:









For the final nozzle install I had to screw the nozzle into the nozzle holder and then thread the two pieces while they were connected into the intake manifold. It was kind of hard to thread the nozzles in properly as the IM is contoured, butwith some brute force iwas able to get it done.
If you look at the port on the far left yo uwill notice that I had to bust out a handy dandy file and shave down some of the mold casting in order to be able to thread the nozzle + holder into the IM.

Sorry I didnt take any pictures in between these steps, but here is the final product:


----------



## naemcivic (Aug 22, 2010)

can't wait to hear about this setup...it looks amazing! also waiting for OP to report back on if there are carbon buildup with WMI in place.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

you plan on running pure meth? would be much more beneficial to you than 50/50, imho.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I run a ~40/60 w/m mixture.
The game plan is to have a Y split before the distribution block and run a DO solenoid hooked to a switch in the cabin that has a DO1 nozzle pre MAP.
This way I can get the best of both worlds on tap. I will most likely not use the DO1 nozzle during daily commutes but when it comes time to have some fun I will turn on the DO1 nozzle and reap the benefits of chemical intercooling


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

why not run it daily? I ran a DO3 slightly post MAP daily with WM, now a DO5 with LOOOOTTTS of meth and its a night and day difference.

meth wont quench flame, so id recommend running at least 51%. trust me. its like a kick in the ass when that stuff kicks on... I can only imagine how strong it would be if your injecting it directly before your valves.... :beer:

I wanted to paint my manifold too... but never had tome to do it... always busy fixing oil leaks, boost leaks, torn boots, various other stupid ****. lmao


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Krieger said:


> why not run it daily? I ran a DO3 slightly post MAP daily with WM, now a DO5 with LOOOOTTTS of meth and its a night and day difference.
> 
> meth wont quench flame, so id recommend running at least 51%. trust me. its like a kick in the ass when that stuff kicks on... I can only imagine how strong it would be if your injecting it directly before your valves.... :beer:
> 
> I wanted to paint my manifold too... but never had tome to do it... always busy fixing oil leaks, boost leaks, torn boots, various other stupid ****. lmao


 If I had a larger w/m tank I would run the extra DO1 nozzle. However 80% of my driving is rushour bull$hit sitting in traffic stop and go stop and go so I really wouldnt need the extra nozzle.
Im going to have to do a lot of logging with the new direct port injection setup to see how everything changes. Chances are Im going to have to adjust my mixture and maybe dial in the psi forthe pump again


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

did you tap your WW bottle? I have that tapped and just top it off weekly when I check my oil. only when im racing or driving like a lunatic will it need to be refilled in less than like 4 or 5 days.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Yeah I tapped my WW tank, I have to fill it up about once a week or so, usually coincides with filling up my gas tank.
Id really like to install a 2 gallon tank, butI dont want to lose any hatch/cabin space


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

could always mod the WW tank feed neck to be a tank that connects to the main bottle. might get another half gallon or maybe even a gallon up there if you can get the right container.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Krieger said:


> could always mod the WW tank feed neck to be a tank that connects to the main bottle. might get another half gallon or maybe even a gallon up there if you can get the right container.


 Ive thought about this but couldnt picture a good plan.
Working with plastics can be a pain in the ass.

I wonder if theTourag or Tiguan or Routan has alarge WW tank?

It would be awesome to do something like BSH did with their shop car:









**Hint Hint, BSH**


----------



## lowerthanzimmy (May 7, 2010)

Banned 4 Life said:


> Here is a pic of of where I mounted my controller.


im mounting my WOT box in this spot.....still trying to figure out this w/m i know its going to help me in the long run.....this thread was a huge help......i do have a few questions though

...running w/m on a DD....if im running 93oct file normal driving... is timing pull much of a concern as it is to be in 100oct file?

.....if the reservoir is empty will the pump keep kicking on? or does the controller have a option to turn it off?

DO or SP? thanks for the help man!

do you suggest tapping the WW bottle over the dinky tank that comes with the kit?


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

You could run 93 tune, 87 in the tank just fine. I did that and even went on the dyno like that and pulled the same numbers most others did on 93.

I havnt logged for 100 oct yet, but ive been in 100 oct mode with 93 in the tank and 80% meth and it pulls pretty nice, I must say.

if it wasnt for all this damn rain, id be tearing this **** up. :laugh:

as far as the reservoir being empty: the pump will stay on. thats why its recommended you install a float switch to warn you of a low fluid level... as per any manufacturer's instructions... OR, just tap the windshield fluid bottle and there is already one in there.

when my low level light comes on, I just reach up and turn my boost settings to like 20 PSI each and she doesnt kick on any more till I reset it.


----------



## lowerthanzimmy (May 7, 2010)

Krieger said:


> You could run 93 tune, 87 in the tank just fine. I did that and even went on the dyno like that and pulled the same numbers most others did on 93.
> 
> I havnt logged for 100 oct yet, but ive been in 100 oct mode with 93 in the tank and 80% meth and it pulls pretty nice, I must say.
> 
> ...



:laugh:....so id be good in 93 file, with 93oct no worries then...id only run the 100oct file at the track...i drive 100miles to work and back a day.....yea im thinking the best bet is going to be to tap into the WW bottle....im leaning more towards the devils own kit now though....just because of the controller and i can mount in the car.....ugh im to effing picky:laugh:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

LowerThanZimmy said:


> :laugh:....so id be good in 93 file, with 93oct no worries then...id only run the 100oct file at the track...i drive 100miles to work and back a day.....yea im thinking the best bet is going to be to tap into the WW bottle....im leaning more towards the devils own kit now though....just because of the controller and i can mount in the car.....ugh im to effing picky:laugh:


If you wanted to DD your car with the w/m kit for your 100 mile commute I would suggest you get a larger tank. The stock WW tank is 1 gallon and for a somewhat spirited 100 mile drive to go hang out with some friends i nanother town I pretty much use up the entire gallon.
i do carry a spare 1 Liter bottle in my hatch that I keep a w/m mixture in.
i got the bottle from a friend that works in a research lab so I feel safe transporting the meth in it as it is a sterile bottle, thick threaded screw on lid and its made of some sort of plastic mixture that wont get eaten up by the w/m.

I would research all of the vendors and pick out what w/m kit best fits your needs.
I have the DO DVC30 kit and really like it. It may be overkill for a k03 but I liek the way it functions and it will still work out nicely if I upgrade my turbo later on.


----------



## lowerthanzimmy (May 7, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> If you wanted to DD your car with the w/m kit for your 100 mile commute I would suggest you get a larger tank. The stock WW tank is 1 gallon and for a somewhat spirited 100 mile drive to go hang out with some friends i nanother town I pretty much use up the entire gallon.
> i do carry a spare 1 Liter bottle in my hatch that I keep a w/m mixture in.
> i got the bottle from a friend that works in a research lab so I feel safe transporting the meth in it as it is a sterile bottle, thick threaded screw on lid and its made of some sort of plastic mixture that wont get eaten up by the w/m.
> 
> ...


yea im looking into that kit also......i wont be k03 for much longer...im gunna go k04(not that big of a difference but).......

do you buy pure methanol and mix it yourself? im guessing its more cost efficient to buy it that way...then mix with distilled water, im leaning towards this DO DVC30 kit


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

LowerThanZimmy said:


> yea im looking into that kit also......i wont be k03 for much longer...im gunna go k04(not that big of a difference but).......
> 
> do you buy pure methanol and mix it yourself? im guessing its more cost efficient to buy it that way...then mix with distilled water, im leaning towards this DO DVC30 kit


 Buying the premixed boost juice stuff is a joke.
I wouldnt run it consistently but it wouldnt hurt to run a batch of the stuff for your first tank and maybe keep one kicking around your garage somewhere.
I have a 5 gallon race gas can that I take to a local performance shop and buy 100% methanol for $3/galllon.
I then mix it with distilled water from Walmart for $.80.
I end up with 2 gallons of w/m for $4, not bad. Thats ~1 months worth of go juice.
Granted if I take the ar out and BEAT on her I can run an entire gallon out in a day....
But for my normal daily commute to and from work 1 gallon/week is all I need.


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## lowerthanzimmy (May 7, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Buying the premixed boost juice stuff is a joke.
> I wouldnt run it consistently but it wouldnt hurt to run a batch of the stuff for your first tank and maybe keep one kicking around your garage somewhere.
> I have a 5 gallon race gas can that I take to a local performance shop and buy 100% methanol for $3/galllon.
> I then mix it with distilled water from Walmart for $.80.
> ...


sweet!.......devils own DVC-30 it is!:laugh:


hope you don't mind my questions....id rather ask people that really know what its all about...rather then a shop tell me "o yea, this **** is the real deal"


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

thats what this forum is about. do it right, or do it twice.

be sure to read up on everything you can, and make sure you get the proper nozzle size for your motor.


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## lowerthanzimmy (May 7, 2010)

Krieger said:


> thats what this forum is about. do it right, or do it twice.
> 
> be sure to read up on everything you can, and make sure you get the proper nozzle size for your motor.


yea.....all the other retards are like "wait technical forums, vortex has them":laugh::facepalm:


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## danielescobarg (Jan 14, 2009)

Anybody has had any issues with their low-level indicator when using the WW reservoir? Mine is crazy, sometimes it marks low-level when its full, sometimes it doesn’t. But almost always, regardless of the quantity in the reservoir is telling me that level is low???

Anybody experiencing the same, maybe meth has lower conductivity? 

Thanks!


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

I'm sure Vitrual or Kreiger will shed some light on this but I've read that it's b/c windsheild washer fluid has dye in it, hence the color, and that helps the optics on the float sensor determine when it's low or not. So when you run w/m it's essentially clear which means empty to the float sensor.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

danielescobarg said:


> Anybody has had any issues with their low-level indicator when using the WW reservoir? Mine is crazy, sometimes it marks low-level when its full, sometimes it doesn’t. But almost always, regardless of the quantity in the reservoir is telling me that level is low???
> 
> Anybody experiencing the same, maybe meth has lower conductivity?
> 
> Thanks!





MasterNele03 said:


> I'm sure Vitrual or Kreiger will shed some light on this but I've read that it's b/c windsheild washer fluid has dye in it, hence the color, and that helps the optics on the float sensor determine when it's low or not. So when you run w/m it's essentially clear which means empty to the float sensor.


VW monitors the level of fluid in the WW tank via electricity. The stock WW fluid conducts electricity and w/m will not.
Take a tiny pinch of salt and put it in with your w/m tank and shake the crap out of it before you fill up your car next time and you wont have that problem. :thumbup:


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## stanielz (Oct 2, 2009)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> VW monitors the level of fluid in the WW tank via electricity. The stock WW fluid conducts electricity and w/m will not.
> Take a tiny pinch of salt and put it in with your w/m tank and shake the crap out of it before you fill up your car next time and you wont have that problem. :thumbup:


I've heard of this and color food dye to get it to read from someone on the MKV forum.  seems like 2 vastly different low level reading theorys.


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## danielescobarg (Jan 14, 2009)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> VW monitors the level of fluid in the WW tank via electricity. The stock WW fluid conducts electricity and w/m will not.
> Take a tiny pinch of salt and put it in with your w/m tank and shake the crap out of it before you fill up your car next time and you wont have that problem. :thumbup:


Thanks man!

that is what thought, I tested with water and it was fine, only when I go below 60% water I get this issue and I am happy at 70%Meth 30%water by weight.

But adding salt???????? isn’t meth extremely corrosive? and then adding salt? would that be kind of harmful?


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

stanielz said:


> I've heard of this and color food dye to get it to read from someone on the MKV forum.  seems like 2 vastly different low level reading theorys.


I wouldnt have thought it but apparently dye works as well, just idd some quick research and some people use that.
adding dye or salte accomplishes the same thing. 



danielescobarg said:


> Thanks man!
> 
> that is what thought, I tested with water and it was fine, only when I go below 60% water I get this issue and I am happy at 70%Meth 30%water by weight.
> 
> But adding salt???????? isn’t meth extremely corrosive? and then adding salt? would that be kind of harmful?


 Thats why you use just a little pinch. I pick up individual salt packages from gas stations and sprinkle maybe 1/3 of the packet into my 5 gallon tank.
With that little amount of salt it wont do any harm.
If you were to add a full cup of salt you would have a different problem though


----------



## danielescobarg (Jan 14, 2009)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I wouldnt have thought it but apparently dye works as well, just idd some quick research and some people use that.
> adding dye or salte accomplishes the same thing.
> 
> 
> ...


So something like 1/3 of this








into 5 Gal? usually they are like 1gr, so we talking like .06gr per gallon….ok, guess it can’t be that harmless, I will give it a try.

Blending the mixture for the car has now become an art…..1.5 liters of this, 4.5 of that, a pinch of this……. Mix it well and voila…..:laugh:


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

danielescobarg said:


> So something like 1/3 of this
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I cant tell how big that packet is...
If that packet is 1" long then yes 1/3 of that packet would work.
Dont go overboard wit hthe salt, just pour out a little pinch into your handthen throw it in.
i dont have to add salt very often. I typically only have to add salt when I do a fresh batch of w/m. I hardly ever run the 5gallon container empty, typically as it gets halfway I will pour in a gallon of water and a gallon of methanol. I never add any more salt unless the car starts throwing a hissy fit (not very often.


Yeah sometimes it does feel like Im a mad scientist mixing big jugs of stuff and dumping it into my car.
Between filling up my car once a week and emptying my CC with a hand pump my neighbors give me all kinds of weird looks :laugh:


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

The reason it gets a low reading is because distilled water and alcohol don't conduct electricity on their own.. they have no minerals / salt that contain ions. By adding salt, you are ionizing the water, and the ions are what travel between the electrodes carrying the electrical charge. When water gets distilled, any minerals in the water are removed because only the water itself evaporates (leaving behind the minerals), then recondenses, so basically you have pure clean water. Oh and I just thought of a good way to describe that.. you know how when you wash your car, then leave it outside to dry, and you get water spots? Those spots / rings are the minerals that were in the water when it evaporated


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

Good example, thanks for clearing that up both you guys.


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## Ricky Bobby (Sep 29, 2005)

sooooo technically you could wash your car with distilled water and get no spots? :laugh:


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

Yup.. and those Mr clean car wash things have filters that filter out the minerals in the water so it doesnt leave spots.. only problem is they are a pain in the ass to use


----------



## mylesw42 (Mar 3, 2010)

Just saw your new intake manifold. How much material was available for actual threads on the tap? It looks pretty thin, I can't imagine it being any more than 2 threads. Think this is fine? I have no idea, just wondering your thoughts. Maybe loctite or something for safety, I wouldn't want those injectors flying out.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

mylesw42 said:


> Just saw your new intake manifold. How much material was available for actual threads on the tap? It looks pretty thin, I can't imagine it being any more than 2 threads. Think this is fine? I have no idea, just wondering your thoughts. Maybe loctite or something for safety, I wouldn't want those injectors flying out.


 The DO nozzles threaded perfectly into the Intake Manifold.
Each of the nozzles are fully threaded in and they sit flush with the IM.
I used blue loctice on all of the nozzles to ensure they dont fly out and that it has a proper seal aginst the nozzles.
As a matter of fact I was in the garage 2 days ago and put 2 more coats around the outside edge of where the nozzles thread in as to guarantee a 100% seal.

Great minds think alike 'eh?


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> The DO nozzles threaded perfectly into the Intake Manifold.
> Each of the nozzles are fully threaded in and they sit flush with the IM.
> I used blue loctice on all of the nozzles to ensure they dont fly out and that it has a proper seal aginst the nozzles.
> As a matter of fact I was in the garage 2 days ago and put 2 more coats around the outside edge of where the nozzles thread in as to guarantee a 100% seal.
> ...


Virtual - will you be doing a diy for pulling the mani on the TSI? I haven't checked recently but I think the ones out there are FSI specific.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> Virtual - will you be doing a diy for pulling the mani on the TSI? I haven't checked recently but I think the ones out there are FSI specific.


I wasnt really planning on it, but I guess I could.
The process should be the same for the TSI as the FSI (give or take a bolt or three)....


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> (give or take a bolt or three)....


I know, that's the point. 

I was surprised how much different it was when I installed a friends FMIC on his MK6 vs. the MKV. Will you get through it? Sure. Are there surprises along the way? Yes!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> I know, that's the point.
> 
> I was surprised how much different it was when I installed a friends FMIC on his MK6 vs. the MKV. Will you get through it? Sure. Are there surprises along the way? Yes!


Well, just like any of my other installs I will take plenty of pictures.
For the sake of maybe doing a DIY I will take plenty of EXTRA pictures along the way.
The only problem at that point is trying to remember everything...
I hope I dont hit too may roadblocks.
If need be I havea local guy (with an FSI) that installed a K04 and while he was in the process he cleaned out his valves so I can call on him for some pointers/help.
At this point all I need is a good period of time and iwill install the manifold.
I wont have the time to complete this untill mid/late June though...


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Just got my Invoice from PPG, my TB spacer should be shipped out on Monday.
Next weekend is open for me so if the weather isnt complete **** I will install it.

Can't wait to get my good 'ole Missouri Meth fix again


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Just got my Invoice from PPG, my TB spacer should be shipped out on Monday.
> Next weekend is open for me so if the weather isnt complete **** I will install it.
> 
> Can't wait to get my good 'ole Missouri Meth fix again


If this fits, I'm getting one too! Any update on the custom intake mani?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I heard from somebody else that bought one of the PPG TB spacers that the Devils Own nozles wont sit flush and I will need to grind it down just a little bit, no biggie there.

The Intake Manifold is done and waiting to be installed, but I am going to clean my valves while I have the intake manifold off, so the 6 hour job is now looking to be a full weekend project.

Friend of mine was going to buy a media blaster and we were going to clean both of our valves using walnut shells, but he knocked his wife up and he is no longer going to buy the media blaster.
So now it looks like I am going to clean my valves the good ole fashioned way, elbow grease. 
Im going to wait till it starts to warm up and get my friend with a BT MKV to help me out.
Not looking forward to that ish at all.


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Not looking forward to that ish at all.


 That bad huh? I've heard and seen the DIY and it can't be any worse than changing the crack pipe on a VR but I guess I'll find out when it my turn to do it. Hopefully though it'll go by faster and easier with the both of you guys working on it. :beer:


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I heard from somebody else that bought one of the PPG TB spacers that the Devils Own nozles wont sit flush and I will need to grind it down just a little bit, no biggie there.
> 
> The Intake Manifold is done and waiting to be installed, but I am going to clean my valves while I have the intake manifold off, so the 6 hour job is now looking to be a full weekend project.
> 
> ...


 Do you have a link to the PPG tb spacer? If I don't end up going with HEP mani, I'd definitely want the spacer. 

I'll be cleaning my valves this summer, not looking forward to it either


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

another question, 

are you gonna be running the spacer and your custom mani together?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

most likely. You want some sprayed before the IAT sensor so the car sees the drop in temps and advances timing. Virtual, that PPG spacer looks like the nozzle threads in further back on the left side than the USRT spacer does. Unless you want to remove the TB pipe again, stick with whatever nozzle you first buy. its hell getting those nozzles screwed in under the manifold. I used a needle nose pliers and an open ended wrench and got it, but I dropped my initial nozzle holder down into the abyss that is our engine bay... it has never been found. lmao. so, if your working the nozzle in or out, keep that hose connected... there are alot of little spaces those suckers can get lost into. :banghead: 

My setup im going for right now is a 60cc in the TB spacer, and a 100cc spacer post IC, with the pump at 220-250psi. Eventually I'd like to shave my mani and go direct port injection as well, but that is for another day and after I source another mani. :beer:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Krieger said:


> Virtual, that PPG spacer looks like the nozzle threads in further back on the left side than the USRT spacer does. Unless you want to remove the TB pipe again, stick with whatever nozzle you first buy. its hell getting those nozzles screwed in under the manifold.


 Krieger, 

The nozzle does install further back on the left side but this is a good thing since it is not directly underneath the IAT sensor allowing for more clearance during install/removal. Here's a good pic for comparison. It's a breeze to remove/install the nozzle once you disconnect the IAT sensor and purge valve. I actually removed it last night and was able to remove the holder with the nozzle coming with it. This was with snow performance nozzles though so the results may be different with DO. 

For reference, I was the person who originally piloted the PPG spacer before Virtual purchased. This is on a thread I have on golfmkv.com. http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1480471


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

If I can get some decent weather this weekend I will install the TB spacer this weekend.
When I go to install my Direct Port Injection Intake Manifold I will have to repeat the whole process so I could theoretically put my DO3 nozzle in the TB spacer, but I think I am going to stick to putting the DO1 in the TB Spacer.

My ultimate dream plan is to run my Manifold with the DO.75 nozzle in each runner with the DO1 in the TB Spacer. However I want to do a little custom work. I want to have the Devils Own electronic solenoid before the DO1 in the TB spacer and have that hooked up to a switch in the cabin so I can enable and disable that while constantly running the Direct Port injection. The game plan is to only use the DO1 while im on the track/strip/aggressive driving.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

the ppg spacer has the nozzle on the front? very nice. the USRT spacer has it off to the side, which can be a pain when removing or re-installing with the spacer still installed, but keeps stuff pretty well hidden... and its a quality piece. :beer: USRT has some good dudes working there. 

Why not just run the D01 all the time? It won't drain your WM supply very fast at all, and you can always keep a gallon in the trunk. I use windshield washer fluid bottles to hold my mixes. I spike the mix with a touch of rubbing alcohol to warn me if there is ever a spill or anything. You cannot smell methanol, but you definitely can smell the rubbing alcohol, even in very small amounts.


----------



## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

steelcurtain said:


> For reference, I was the person who originally piloted the PPG spacer before Virtual purchased. This is on a thread I have on golfmkv.com.


 I spend a couple hours finding that earlier. You are the reason I am choosing that spacer lol. Arnold said they actually have a few left and it's a damn good price. I can't wait


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Track5tar said:


> I spend a couple hours finding that earlier. You are the reason I am choosing that spacer lol. Arnold said they actually have a few left and it's a damn good price. I can't wait


 :thumbup::thumbup:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Krieger said:


> the ppg spacer has the nozzle on the front? very nice. the USRT spacer has it off to the side, which can be a pain when removing or re-installing with the spacer still installed, but keeps stuff pretty well hidden... and its a quality piece. :beer: USRT has some good dudes working there.
> 
> Why not just run the D01 all the time? It won't drain your WM supply very fast at all, and you can always keep a gallon in the trunk. I use windshield washer fluid bottles to hold my mixes. I spike the mix with a touch of rubbing alcohol to warn me if there is ever a spill or anything. You cannot smell methanol, but you definitely can smell the rubbing alcohol, even in very small amounts.


 I've seen the USRT spacer for the MKV and I wasn't impressed, the PPG spacer is the first one that I have really liked so I jumped on it.
I don't want to run the DO1 all the time as Im unsure how fast it will cause the WW tank to drain using four DO.75 nozzles and a DO1 nozzle (theoretically being equiavelent to a DO4).
With my origional setup I would have to fill my car up every 1 or 1.5 weeks or so and that got old pretty fast.
Plus I spend most of my time driving in rush hour so theres not a real reason to be using the w/m.


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## sum41kid861 (Oct 30, 2006)

quick question...thinking abt going w/m...is it just a straight mix of methyl alcohol and water?

my gf is a chem teacher and has PLENTLY of access to methyl alcohol. so if thats the case and theres nothing else in the mix thatll b a big plus for me


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

sum41kid861 said:


> quick question...thinking abt going w/m...is it just a straight mix of methyl alcohol and water?
> 
> my gf is a chem teacher and has PLENTLY of access to methyl alcohol. so if thats the case and theres nothing else in the mix thatll b a big plus for me


 About 50/50 is what most companies sell.... Maybe more like 49/51 but close enough


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Correct.
I buy and mix my own w/m.
I go to my local race shop and buy 5 gallons of methanol at a time and go to wal-mart and buy distilled water and mix the two.

Received my TB spacer yesterday:
Going to install the nozzle tonight and hopefully be able to install the spacer this weekend.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Last night I took a drill to the inside of the TB spacer w/m port s othat my Devils Own nozzle now sits flush and has plenty of room to properly atomize.
Im goign to smooth up the drill marks tonight and hopefulyl install this tomorrow.


----------



## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Last night I took a drill to the inside of the TB spacer w/m port s othat my Devils Own nozzle now sits flush and has plenty of room to properly atomize.
> Im goign to smooth up the drill marks tonight and hopefulyl install this tomorrow.


 :thumbup: Take pics


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

MasterNele03 said:


> :thumbup: Take pics


 x2


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I ground down the spacer for the DO nozzle:










Also I had to do some grinding to the intake manifold and nosiepipe bracket in order to fit the nozzle in the location.
I suspect most people would not want to do this to their cars.
I got everything running last night (and for funsies I sprayed some Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner in the Intake Manifold while I had the TB off) only to find out that the TB spacer isnt tightened in all the way. Gotta tear everything back down and tighten that ish back down.
I think the bolts from PPG are a tiny bit too long (and the thread isnt the same) as they are hard as HELL to bolt in (no they arent crosthreaded)

more pics to follow
Speaking of pics, as I was grinding down the TB spacer the other night I decided to knife edge my flappers and one thing led to another and I decided to sand out some of the "fin" moldings as well. The intkae manifold looks MUCH better now.


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

depending on the motor, could need machine style screws or the normal style that came with the first FSI. Flat tip of bolt compared to the pointy end for the machine screws. maybe the thread pitch or size is just wrong?


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Krieger said:


> depending on the motor, could need machine style screws or the normal style that came with the first FSI. Flat tip of bolt compared to the pointy end for the machine screws. maybe the thread pitch or size is just wrong?


 Both are wrong, but I made it work.
AFAIK NOBODY makes a CORRECT replacement bolt for a TB spacer.
I have seen comparisons from several vendors.

In other news i ripped out the TB pipe and tightened everything down AGAIN.
I also put a little bit of silicone around the w/m nozzle and the seam on the TB spacer to ensure a proper seal.
I took her out and ran her through the paces and she runs like a raped ape again!
I also had the low WW fluid light come back on, LOL!
I have only filled up my WW tank ONCE since my TB fiasco last year at SoWo.
Looks like I will be filling it up every 2 weeks again


----------



## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Both are wrong, but I made it work.
> AFAIK NOBODY makes a CORRECT replacement bolt for a TB spacer.
> I have seen comparisons from several vendors.
> 
> ...


 Nice ^^ glad to hear that she still likes W/M :laugh:. I'm going to look into the spacer now, b/c i was going to run the BSH pipe from the IC to the TB, but I don't want to have to replace the TB (not cheap, not like I have to tell you).


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I know there are several people out there using the BSH TB Pipe with no issues, but I know one other TSI guy that had a TB failure and was using alsmot the same setup as me.
We might just be isolated cases at this point or maybe the TBs in the TSI cars are weaker, who knows.
For example [email protected] has been running w/m on his car for 4 years now or so and hasn't had a TB failure (at least not when I spoke with him about this in 2011).

Sadly, injecting so close to the motor isnt going to cool the intake charge nearly as much, but the octane boost should increased :thumbup:


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

i have the BSH pipe and it killed my TB, well, the meth anyways. 

I just got my dual nozzle setup running. Holy cold IATs batman! gonna be doing some logs this week or next, then dyno time. going to measure for water, meth, mixed, and Nitromethane. :beer:


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## sum41kid861 (Oct 30, 2006)

so then:

TB spacer > BSH pipe

?


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I know there are several people out there using the BSH TB Pipe with no issues, but I know one other TSI guy that had a TB failure and was using alsmot the same setup as me.
> We might just be isolated cases at this point or maybe the TBs in the TSI cars are weaker, who knows.
> For example [email protected] has been running w/m on his car for 4 years now or so and hasn't had a TB failure (at least not when I spoke with him about this in 2011).
> 
> Sadly, injecting so close to the motor isnt going to cool the intake charge nearly as much, but the octane boost should increased :thumbup:


 That's reassuring, I would really like to get a HEP manifold when they develop one for us but I would like to see the difference between the OEM manifold before I purchase b/c the OEM has the flaps. 

Yes that is the part that sucks b/c the IAT won't see the temp change as much.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

do what I am doing and run both. im running a 60cc/min nozzle in the spacer, and a 100cc nozzle in the pipe, just after the IC. best of both worlds, but really limiting the amount of fluid the TB sees.


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

sum41kid861 said:


> so then:
> 
> TB spacer > BSH pipe
> 
> ?


 I would agree for meth application 



MasterNele03 said:


> That's reassuring, I would really like to get a HEP manifold when they develop one for us but I would like to see the difference between the OEM manifold before I purchase b/c the OEM has the flaps.
> I thought they already had one
> Yes that is the part that sucks b/c the IAT won't see the temp change as much.


 I thought hep made them already? 


Krieger said:


> do what I am doing and run both. im running a 60cc/min nozzle in the spacer, and a 100cc nozzle in the pipe, just after the IC. best of both worlds, but really limiting the amount of fluid the TB sees.


 interesting, more ways for me to spend money lol


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

its cheap... just need the pump, 2 solenoids, 2 nozzles, 2 holders, a t, and the lines. well, "cheap".


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

Krieger said:


> do what I am doing and run both. im running a 60cc/min nozzle in the spacer, and a 100cc nozzle in the pipe, just after the IC. best of both worlds, but really limiting the amount of fluid the TB sees.


 I've actually been thinking about doing it your way at least for now unless I decide to either do the HEP manifold or do what Virtual is doing with an OEM manifold. I need more details on the HEP when they come out to see how much of a benefit it is compared to the OEM. After all is said and done it probably won't be more than a piece of eye candy with some convenience features. Now if they somehow manage to put in both port and direct injection into the manifold, now we are talking but we'll need software for the ECU, sigh. 



Track5tar said:


> I thought hep made them already?


 They are currently ready for the FSI guys and it's different than the TSI, I'm pretty sure I read on GolfMk6 that they are going to be developing soon for the TSI though. Only time will tell now. 



Krieger said:


> its cheap... just need the pump, 2 solenoids, 2 nozzles, 2 holders, a t, and the lines. well, "cheap".


 noted


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

Krieger said:


> its cheap... just need the pump, 2 solenoids, 2 nozzles, 2 holders, a t, and the lines. well, "cheap".


 and the pipe  


MasterNele03 said:


> They are currently ready for the FSI guys and it's different than the TSI, I'm pretty sure I read on GolfMk6 that they are going to be developing soon for the TSI though. Only time will tell now.


 ahh I see


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

actually you can just as easily tap the thick plastic of the stock pipe. seats in there REALLY well. 

as for the manifold, im not holding my breath. Until your pushing 400+ the TB has shown its not the bottle neck, and although i havent seen any flow data for the manifold, I think it's safe to say the manifold can outflow the TB. It's eye candy and a means for port injection of fuel or meth.


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

Krieger said:


> actually you can just as easily tap the thick plastic of the stock pipe. seats in there REALLY well.
> 
> as for the manifold, im not holding my breath. Until your pushing 400+ the TB has shown its not the bottle neck, and although i havent seen any flow data for the manifold, I think it's safe to say the manifold can outflow the TB. It's eye candy and a means for port injection of fuel or meth.


 I think I may have a spare hose that goes from the intercooler to the TB pipe if I remember correctly. I may use that as a test and see if I can properly seat the nozzle in there and then that way I don't need to get the BSH pipe (still a nice looking pipe though), just the spacer and throw the other nozzle in there. Mhm seems like I'll have something to do before the superbowl this weekend. :thumbup:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

The BSH pipe is very easy to remove once installed. Personally, I think it is worth the coin for this alone. The OEM TB pipe is a PITA to remove.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

steelcurtain said:


> The BSH pipe is very easy to remove once installed. Personally, I think it is worth the coin for this alone. The OEM TB pipe is a PITA to remove.


 I agree, I hae removed the TB pipe probably 10 times for various reasons.
In order to remove the BSH TB Pipe all I have to do is loosen the noisepipe T30 bolt and hose clamp, loosen pipe clamp that secures silicone coupler to the TB, loosen the clamp from the IC, and remove the 16mm bolt that secures the TB pipe to the motor and I can pull the TB pipe straight out from the bottom of the car.

Reinstalling it is a breeze as well.
Remove silicone coupler from top of TB pipe, secure silicone coupler to TB, install TB pipe from the bottom (pushing it straight in to the silicone piece secured to TB), secure TB pipe via 16mm bolt on motor, then reattach all the clamps and T30 noisepipe bolt.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

we must have gotten different pipes... installed mine like 6 times now, and helped install 3 others. none fit that well. all had to have that little metal bolt flap thing removed because it was way off and was in the way of getting it seated. dunno. nice pipe but a PITA to get in and out. 

as for securing the nozzle into the silicone, u will need a fitting that every company sells. just pop a hole into the silicone, thread fitting in, screw fitting together so it tightens, screw in nozzle.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

I think taking the stock one out was more of a hassle.. I can get mine out or back in in like 15 seconds from the bottom


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

logs coming this week, but on my way to my classes today, I opened her up on an empty road. Torque steer at 45mph. Now my clutch has started to slip too. hahaha. :laugh:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I have 2 small leaks, fixed the leak at the WW tank last night, got to fix a small leak at the pump now.

Im going to be switching to SS lines to alleviate the push lock fittings (that suck).


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

thats odd. my push locks have been used soooo much and dont leak. who made ur pump? i have a DO pump. 

Im so tempted to mount my stuff in the trunk or something, but im not sure.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5577277-My-VAG-COM-logs


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Krieger said:


> thats odd. my push locks have been used soooo much and dont leak. who made ur pump? i have a DO pump.
> 
> Im so tempted to mount my stuff in the trunk or something, but im not sure.


DO 250psi pump (DVC 30 kit)
Im swithing to SS lines to ge trid of this issue


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

The new silicone finally did the trick and sealed up the slow leak.
Time to turn the w/m back on.

I will get around to ordering the Devils Own SS lines eventually.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

spoke too soon, there is still a slow leak :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## Track5tar (Feb 16, 2010)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> spoke too soon, there is still a slow leak :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


fixed?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I thought I had it fixed AGAIN as over the last week I put 2L of w/m in it and never saw a leak.
So this weekend I fileld it up, and it immediately started to leak. ugh

Guess I'll just hold off till I order new SS lines from Devils Own.
I wish they would respond back to my e-mail I sent last week.
Guess, I'll be calling them shortly.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

oh hai:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

*MOAR*

Christmas again!




































Im missing two AN nozzle fittings, AN Tee fitting, and a AN check valve.



Plus I now have the bulkhead fitting so I need to figure out how the hell Im going to secure that to the spare WW tank I bought earlier.



I think I need to order two more AN-4 90 degree bend fittings too.

FML this AN **** is expensive.





Oh but on a good note, I installed the new pump head fitting with AN fittings. It was a PITA but I took a break and did some vag-com work for a local and he paid me in beer so I wasn't to terribly pissed.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Oh and I finished sanding up the IM and put a few coats of paint on it.
I also did a mild porting job on the IM


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

You can see my plumbin'












bitches love my long lines


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

AN fitting and SS line fetish much? lmao. lookin good tho. My current setup is already more than enough for what my motor needs, but when I get my build done this year, might need to step up to direct port.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I had two major leaks with the ****ty push lock fittings.
This will definitely solve that problem LOL


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

Krieger said:


> AN fitting and SS line fetish much? lmao. lookin good tho. My current setup is already more than enough for what my motor needs, but when I get my build done this year, might need to step up to direct port.


 LOL, I would have hardlined that bitch and not used AN fittings.. them ****ers are outrageous


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Slayer said:


> LOL, I would have hardlined that bitch and not used AN fittings.. them ****ers are outrageous


 I dont have any means to do hardlines, and I've changed my plans on how to route the lines several times now, so that would have resulted in rebuying hardlines.

Plus whenever this project is done I will keep all the AN stuff and use it for another project.

It just so happens that -4AN fittings are used quite a bit for nitrous....


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Went ahead and installed the bulkhead fitting in my new replacement (NON LEAKY!) OEM WW tank.









The fitting you are seeing is a -6AN fuel safe bulkhead fitting made for use with fuel cells.
On top of the bulkhead fitting I have a -4AN convertor as they don't make this kind of bulkhead fitting in -4AN.
On top of the -4AN convertor I will install a 90 degree elbow.

Now Im going to put a bit of (meth safe!) silicone sealer on the outside of it for safe keeping.
I will install the new WW tank tomorrow and then I cant do anything till the rest of my AN goodies come in on Friday.

I cant wait to get rid of the "LOW WASHER FLUID" warning message on my dash, ugh.


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## ocean48 (Apr 26, 2012)

Or you could skip all of this meth/water injection crap 

Convert to e85, bigger fuel injectors, biggere fuel pump, bigger turbo. Forge your internal combustion engine. Tune and you will be on your way of breakng your tranny instead of breaking your engine and your tranny.  

just my ,02


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

ocean48 said:


> Or you could skip all of this meth/water injection crap
> 
> Convert to e85, bigger fuel injectors, biggere fuel pump, bigger turbo. Forge your internal combustion engine. Tune and you will be on your way of breakng your tranny instead of breaking your engine and your tranny.
> 
> just my ,02


 Let me just pull all those parts that don't exist (injectors and biggere fuel pump) out of my ass and then I will be set for e85

and how would running e85 break my transmission?
There are people with 500whp+ with DSG holding just fine...


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

not to mention the fact that e85 isn't available everywhere.. In ct, they sell Flex Fuel cars, but there are no e85 stations available to the public


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Not to mention it is more corrosive than meth


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

M85, anyone? anyone? Bueller?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Got my order of parts in from Summit Racing and Devils Own.

I got all the lines put together and the intake manifold put together with the new AN fittings.

Everything is coming together.....


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Cleaned the valves and install the new intake manifold this weekend.

I still have to finish plumbing everything , but ITS ALMOST DONE!





Car had 71k miles

VTA CC

w/m
















Cylinder 1










Cylinder 2










Cylinder 3










Cylinder 4












Crankshaft bolt (24mm) used to turn the motor over to open/clsoe valves












CLEAN


















Friend with a FSI motor helped me this weekend, he just about **** himself when he saw how clean my valves were.



THANKS AGAIN ERIC!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

oh hai


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

'ello :wave: looking sweet man I'm waiting on the logs.


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

IT's about time! Congrats. How's it running?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Im going to hold off on logs for a bit as I am still checking to make sure everything is working fine.
Logs will be posted sooner than later.
BTW still running in 93 octane mode till I get it dialed in.

Car is running like a champ, you can definitely feel when the w/m kicks in as there is a nice surge in throttle response.
She was pulling hard despite being ran on the hottest (heat index) day of the year in STL so far.
Oh and the Intake Manifold was lukewarm by the time I wsa done thrashing on her.
The rest of the engine bay was scalding hot.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I rerouted the line for the 4th cylinder as there wasnt any slack in the line and was causing a leak.

Everything seems to be working great now.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

new line:


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## steelcurtain (Mar 26, 2008)

Logs?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Logs will be out soon once setup is completed.

Got to do one WOT pull today OMW to work and it blew the TB pipe coupler off (I adjusted it last night). :facepalm:

Once I fix this I beleive I should be good to go.
I think I will have to order a new coupler from BSH though as I cut my coupler to fit with my TB spacer.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Got my pressure gauge for my w/m system and a bottle of nitromethane to test out:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Looks like hell, but it'll do untill I can find a proper male 3/8"NPT 45 degree elbow to female 1/4"NPT fitting.


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

Very cool, I'm sure you won't disappoint when you find the proper fitting. Waiting anxiously for those IAT's, but I know all in good time. :thumbup:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

The nozzles are located after the IAT sensor so I woudl be able to get accurate IAT results.
I will be logging temperature of the intake manifold with my laser temp gauge though.
As well as logging with vagcom.

This is the last component for the w/m system less later on I switch to a metal 70mm TB and put a DO2 nozzle in the TB pipe. I dont want to pay $500 for a TB though. Im already wayyyyyyyy over budget on this w/m setup LoL


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

get a smell nozzle pre-tb, like a 100cc or smaller. makes a HUGE difference. I ran just the spacer for a while and saw some temp drop, but then got two smaller nozzles, the larger one going in the TB pipe just after the intercooler... huge drops in temps. ~106F at WOT down to 69.8F-78.5

it was over 90 degrees that day. :beer:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Krieger said:


> get a smell nozzle pre-tb, like a 100cc or smaller. makes a HUGE difference. I ran just the spacer for a while and saw some temp drop, but then got two smaller nozzles, the larger one going in the TB pipe just after the intercooler... huge drops in temps. ~106F at WOT down to 69.8F-78.5
> 
> it was over 90 degrees that day. :beer:


I already did pre TB injection and had my TB crap out on me while coming back from SoWo leaving me stranded 1,000 miles away from home on a Sunday.... Im not going back to pre TB unless I have a metal TB.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Direct Port 2.0 is a go:









Idea is to secure the fitting into the intake manifold and screw the nozzle into fitting.
In order to make it as secure as possible I wanted to use a locknut to secure the fitting to avoid any leaks, but the nut is too thick and I dont like the idea that if it ever gets lose it could come undone and then fall into the motor so I might be skipping the nut and just jb weld the piss out of it.
I might try and grind the nut down to half the thickness and see how that goes though.
I also plan to upgrade to DO1 nozzles instead of DO.75


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

don't use a nut. you don't want anything in the air path if you can help it, and you also don't want anything that can come loose and go right into a cylinder


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Im just trying to bulletproof the nozzle install and make it so there will be a perfect seal that wont leak.
The braided stainless steel lines dont have any give in them like normal pushloc tubing.
I have had to mend my JB weld on my current manifold several times as cracks have appeared and leaked.
If I do end up using nuts I will def be using red loctite

I also plan to drill out the inside of the fittings as there is a little bit of restriction inside of them. Will also use a bur on my dremel to make the opening spherical to help atomization.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

I already replied on golfmkv (cryptic1911), but you may want to consider swapping to aquamist nozzles for their nice shallow bungs, and just get rid of all the braided stuff. it's neat looking, but it's over complicating your setup, and it would resolve some of your issues


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Guess who threw a p2015 code yesterday?
Dis guy!

My DPI manifold v1.0 is using the original TSI intake manifold design and my new DPI manifold is the newest revision so hopefully this new manifold will last.
ON a good note I did get ~50k miles out of the DPI manifold 1.0


New parts arrived a while ago:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

making progress on new manifold:


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