# TT 180 with APRs KO4???



## truegeforce (Aug 10, 2004)

Will a TT180QC be as fast or fast than a 225 ed with APR's KO4 turbo/software kits that ECS Tuning puts out for $1600 ????

Will it be better to just by a 225? or mod a 180 to make it a 225?


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## mystthebird (Jun 23, 2007)

dont wast you time with a 180 if you are going to mod it to try and be a 225. its like getting a A4 so you can do a 2.7t swap. the 225 has a stronger crankshaft, upgraded pistons and rods, and larger turbo. and i think some more but thats all i could copy and past from a word doc i have on my computer about buying TTs


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

I've read that the longer gears of the 5spd make it better for 1/4-mile acceleration. You don't have to get APR's turbo/software... there are some other K04's that you can get that are supposed to put out a little bit more power than the stock 225. I think the Neuspeed k04 kit puts around 230-240 at the wheels, but I'm not sure.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (mystthebird)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mystthebird* »_dont wast you time with a 180 if you are going to mod it to try and be a 225. its like getting a A4 so you can do a 2.7t swap. the 225 has a stronger crankshaft, upgraded pistons and rods, and larger turbo. and i think some more but thats all i could copy and past from a word doc i have on my computer about buying TTs 


Yeah, I agree... there are a lot of advantages to the 225. If you want to put a bigger turbo in the 180, then put a big turbo in it... at least a gt28rs, so that you can make some real power. If you just want the power of the 225, just buy the 225.


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## mystthebird (Jun 23, 2007)

My girlfriend is looking at TTs right now and at least aroud me there is not a huge diffrence in proce from the 180-225. so as i see it theres ni point to the 180 if your looking for performance. even if you want to go BT. why not the 225 its a stronger engine.


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## truegeforce (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (mystthebird)*

if i want to turn a 180 into a 225 what would i need in parts other than inturnals.....what kind of bolt on would i need and what kind of money are we talking about?


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## truegeforce (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_Yeah, I agree... there are a lot of advantages to the 225. If you want to put a bigger turbo in the 180, then put a big turbo in it... at least a gt28rs, so that you can make some real power. If you just want the power of the 225, just buy the 225.

yes i understand that but i found a 180 with such low miles and in perfect condition that i can not pass up....so please help me on what parts ill need and the amount of money ill need.... hanks


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## ShockwaveCS (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (truegeforce)*

in my case, bought from a porsche dealership, the dealership had no idea that there was a difference. nothing about horsepower was ever discussed. i just knew the difference in numbers that's all. bought a 2001 225(w/ 56000) for 14,500


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: TT 180 with APRs KO4??? (truegeforce)*

A FWD 180 with a K04 , K04 software , injectors and a FMIC would be faster than a 225 , cause the extra weight of the Haldex on the 225s. the early 2001s and the 2000s are the best for this conversion cause their internals are stronger than the latest models 180s. but if you ask me I would invest in a big turbo instead of the k04. but thats is just me.


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## conman4287 (Nov 21, 2006)

*Re: TT 180 with APRs KO4??? (1.8Tabamoura)*

Ko3s and ko4 http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif <big turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (truegeforce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *truegeforce* »_
yes i understand that but i found a 180 with such low miles and in perfect condition that i can not pass up....so please help me on what parts ill need and the amount of money ill need.... hanks

Just save more for a GT28 BB turbo, and be faster than either, if you're going to do all that work


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

i can believe not one person even mentioned that the apr kit is a ko4-001 and ~ the same size as a ko3s and smaller than a k04. Buying a 180 and making it a 225 is retarted. Not worth the money. 
I love people that dont even have a TT talking about the differnces and butchering it badly. Just kills me THANKS FOR THE HELP BUD http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (truegeforce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *truegeforce* »_if i want to turn a 180 into a 225 what would i need in parts other than inturnals.....what kind of bolt on would i need and what kind of money are we talking about?

You don't need internals for 225hp... that won't start to become necessary until you start pushing around 350-400 bhp. To really turn a 180 into a 225, you'd need a twin intercooler setup, a bigger turbo, bigger injectors, a different intake manifold, a dual-outlet exhaust, a different clutch, and a 6-spd transmission. It's really too expensive to just "turn it into" a 225... but if you want to get more than 225 hp out of it, you can get a t3s60 kit and have 350bhp for $3500-$4000, which isn't much more than (or maybe even less than) what you'd be paying for a full conversion to a 225.


_Modified by splitsecond at 2:15 PM 8-4-2007_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
You don't need internals for 225hp... that won't start to become necessary until you start pushing around 350-400 bhp. 
_Modified by splitsecond at 2:15 PM 8-4-2007_

Torque breaks rods NOT hp








ATC/225 rods will only hold another 10-20ftlbs more than a 19mm wrist pin rods. Trying to run more than 320ftlbs on either rod is stupid.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
Torque breaks rods NOT hp








ATC/225 rods will only hold another 10-20ftlbs more than a 19mm wrist pin rods. Trying to run more than 320ftlbs on either rod is stupid. 

OK... let me rephrase... you shouldn't worry about replacing rods until you have a turbo that can push 350bhp. Then you might have enough torque to break something.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
OK... let me rephrase... you shouldn't worry about replacing rods until you have a turbo that can push 350bhp. Then you might have enough torque to break something.

You can have a 50trim or a 2871r like vwauditek and make almost 400whp (460bhp) and still only have ~320ftlbs of torque.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
OK... let me rephrase... *you shouldn't worry* about replacing rods *until* you have a turbo that can push 350bhp. Then you *might* have enough torque to break something.

Just trying to simplify things for the new guy.


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## truegeforce (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
Just trying to simplify things for the new guy.


thanks doode but what im really after is a divly drivable car with a 0-60 time at around 5.5 to 6.0 is it worth it to do a stage 2 from APR or a ko4 with software .....i found a 180 in such amazing condition with such a low price that i dont really want to pass upp....is this possible


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (truegeforce)*

the ko4 from apr is NOT A 225 TURBO, its smaller. What you can do on a stock turbo is barely less than what you can do on a stock turbo so switching is pointless.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (truegeforce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *truegeforce* »_

thanks doode but what im really after is a divly drivable car with a 0-60 time at around 5.5 to 6.0 is it worth it to do a stage 2 from APR or a ko4 with software .....i found a 180 in such amazing condition with such a low price that i dont really want to pass upp....is this possible 

Try the Neuspeed k04 kit... I'm not sure which k04 they use, but I think it's bigger than the APR k04.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
Try the Neuspeed k04 kit... I'm not sure which k04 they use, but I think it's bigger than the APR k04.

nope, same one, and still not worth it


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=30808023
Read that, get parts and a custom tune, and stop talking about building a 180 into a 225. You know why not to do it? Its stupid http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## truegeforce (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=30808023
Read that, get parts and a custom tune, and stop talking about building a 180 into a 225. You know why not to do it? Its stupid http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Ok i guess i should rephase my origan posting....what would it take to upgrad a 180 tt to be faster or right around what a 225 numbers would be with out turning the car into a ****ing race car....im not tracking it nor auto crossing ....i have found a 02 180tt awith barly any ware in the inter..or on the engine because it was a chicks cars (like married 40years old) so i know it not gona be beat to **** and it was service correctly....If anyone has possitive imput or a way of this being possible please post....about what price range am i looking at and what parts are needed....thanks


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (truegeforce)*

what you need is a t3 60trim kit that would be far faster than a chipped full 3" tb 225 and for around $3200.


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## illuminaTT (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

I put my T3 super 60 kit together w/ every lil' nut and bolt for a total cost of $2,400 + $900 for the BT software. I chose the T3s60 because I wanted to be in the 300-320whp range with a great spooling, streetable, daily-driver car. 
I had pieced together a Ko4-22 kit previously but after lots of bashing and research I found it pointless to convert my 180 to a 225 (or the same power) because for the cost, I can have more power and a worth while conversion.
Remember.....you will want more power.
Piece together a T3s60 set-up and you will be super stoked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (illuminaTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illuminaTT* »_I put my T3 super 60 kit together w/ every lil' nut and bolt for a total cost of $2,400 + $900 for the BT software. I chose the T3s60 because I wanted to be in the 300-320whp range with a great spooling, streetable, daily-driver car. 
I had pieced together a Ko4-22 kit previously but after lots of bashing and research I found it pointless to convert my 180 to a 225 (or the same power) because for the cost, I can have more power and a worth while conversion.
Remember.....you will want more power.
Piece together a T3s60 set-up and you will be super stoked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


THANK YOU, now this thread can end


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Follow-up question: I know the 180 has a T28 flange (luckies), but what do people recommend for the 225 in the way of ball-bearing turbos (without having to rebuild the block)? 


_Modified by l88m22vette at 3:36 PM 8-5-2007_


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_Follow-up question: I know the 180 has a T28 flange (luckies), but what do people recommend for the 225 in the way of ball-bearing turbos (without having to rebuild the block)? 


Not sure where you got the t25 flange from, thats not true. We have the same 3 bolt kkk flange.
3 VW'ers have run 35r's on low boost (18ish) on stock rods, one for over a year. It depends on the amount of boost you run with it. A 2871r is the biggest you can really run and using it to most of its potential. If you go with a t25 .86 you will get more lag and more overall power and be safer on the rods, but not all that streetable.


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## truegeforce (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (illuminaTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illuminaTT* »_I put my T3 super 60 kit together w/ every lil' nut and bolt for a total cost of $2,400 + $900 for the BT software. I chose the T3s60 because I wanted to be in the 300-320whp range with a great spooling, streetable, daily-driver car. 
I had pieced together a Ko4-22 kit previously but after lots of bashing and research I found it pointless to convert my 180 to a 225 (or the same power) because for the cost, I can have more power and a worth while conversion.
Remember.....you will want more power.
Piece together a T3s60 set-up and you will be super stoked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Thnaks sound sick nasty...but where can i find the parts is there a certain compain that puts that turbo out...thanks


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (truegeforce)*

pagparts.com Send Arnold there an email and he will get you everything


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

When going with a BT set-up, is it better to use a PPT manifold w/T28, or should you just buy a new turbo? I'm talking streetability and good power delivery (_fast_ daily driver). Does ball-bearing make a big difference?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

you will have to buy a new manifold regaurdless. 
DBB and Journal bearings spool very differnt. BB turbo's will make more power sooner and make more torque than a comparable journal turbo. You can make a journal bearing turbo spool fast with a good turbine housing and wheel choice. Also a journal bearing turbo will make more power on stock rods vs a BB turbo.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Sweet...where is a good selection of journal turbos?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

t3 60trim - good for 280-300whp 
t3t4 50trim - good for 325-400whp


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

What is a good vendor?


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_What is a good vendor?

The most popular vendor around these parts is Arnold at pagparts.com (his ID is passatg60 on the forum). He's a little bit more expensive than ATP (which seems to be the industry standard, http://www.atpturbo.com), but his parts are better.


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## illuminaTT (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: (truegeforce)*


_Quote, originally posted by *truegeforce* »_

Thnaks sound sick nasty...but where can i find the parts is there a certain compain that puts that turbo out...thanks

Some parts you can get away with buying used.....others, I highly recommend buying from Arnold at Pagparts. He offers great prices, honesty and complete knowledge of what you will need. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The turbo I'm using is a Garrett t3 super 60 ( t3 60 trim ) btw and if I want more power down the road, I can buy either a t3/t4 50 trim or a gt2871r w/ a t3 flange so again, the super 60 is a great platform to start.


_Modified by illuminaTT at 12:02 PM 8-6-2007_


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (illuminaTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illuminaTT* »_
Some parts you can get away with buying used.....others, I highly recommend buying from Arnold at Pagparts. He offers great prices, honesty and complete knowledge of what you will need. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The turbo I'm using is a Garrett t3 super 60 ( t3 60 trim ) btw and if I want more power down the road, I can buy either a t3/t4 50 trim or a gt2871r w/ a t3 flange so again, the super 60 is a great platform to start.

_Modified by illuminaTT at 12:02 PM 8-6-2007_

I got most of my stuff used... great prices, especially since most of the parts are just pieces of metal that will probably never go bad.


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## illuminaTT (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*











_Modified by illuminaTT at 5:05 PM 8-6-2007_


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (illuminaTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illuminaTT* »_pagparts.com
Can this thread die now?

Not if you resurrect it by recommending pagparts for the 4th time this thread.


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## illuminaTT (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*

lmao...when I open the thread it goes directly to the bottom of the first page....thats why I said it again. I erase my last post!!!! 
btw...buy used http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (illuminaTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *illuminaTT* »_btw...buy used http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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