# Engine destroyed 3 days after 15k service



## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

So I'm posting here for advice.

Took my car in for 15k service on 10/8 (audicare prepaid)

Drove my car a little bit on the 8th, a little bit more on the 10th and 11th, about 50 miles total.

On the 12th my car started up in the morning running rough. It had rained in the night was really cold, and I was sitting at around 15% tank, so I thought possibly condensation in the tank, or maybe my plugs were fouled. I drove to the gas station and filled up. EPC and Check engine light were on. I checked the codes and it was 0301 and 0302 (cylinder 1 and 2 misfire) I pop the hood and notice a vacuum line is popped off. I reconnect it, clear the codes and I think it's running a little smoother but not great. I drive about 1/2 a mile down the road. I hear a loud pop, shut my car off immediately because it was smoking (the entire engine bay flooded with oil).

Ok. So now here's where I'm at. I take the car to the local tuning shop, HS Tuning, I don't know what's wrong and I call insurance because I know I have "mechanical breakdown coverage", It's an expensive part of my premium around half the cost of comprehensive, (so maybe 15 dollars a month) they tell me that for my major mechanical insurance to cover the car, it has to be after the dealership coverage and I should tow the car to the dealership. The tuning shop (HS Tuning) tells me that it's the cracked oil pan and shows me, and that it's likely major damage. I'm thinking, holy crap, they must have ****ed something up during their service, but no problem, they'll fix it.

Dealership has had the car for 5 days now. I was upfront and honest about them as far as my mods and i feel like this was a mistake on my part (It was returned to stock, as is the usual advice on forums such as these, I'm not doing extreme mods to my car, I'm not taking my car to the drag strip, I don't have an aftermarket turbo or intercooler, I'm not claiming that the stock block is rock solid to 500 horsepower over many dyno pulls, it's just my slightly peppier daily driver and now it's a nightmare scenario). Today the service manager told me that Audi is not going to honor their warranty on my car. They have not even done any diagnostics on the car other than to pull the tray off the car to see the cracked oil pan. They don't know what caused it, and they are not going to even attempt to look at the cause of the cracked oil pan because they needed authorization from Audi before beginning any diagnostic. So say the oil pump failed... they're blaming that on APR's tune essentially.. except they don't know, because they won't even look at what caused the failure.

Great, so everyone likes to say "pay to play" but then again, who expects total engine failure while having not extreme mods (intake exhaust stage 1 tune)... Will my "pay to play" mistake end up costing me 8,000? Is that really what it comes down to? 

I asked the service manager, Scott, at Sunnyside Audi (Middleburg Heights, OH), if Audi will not cover their warranty, then will the dealership honor their warranty on their labor because I do not think it was a coincidence that my engine failed 3 days after it was serviced. He came right out and said that if you want us to pay for that you will have to sue us to get us any money out of us. He offered to attempt to file a claim on my insurance, but told me that my insurance company will almost assuredly not cover me if Audi will not cover me.

Is that really what it is going to come down to? I'm going to have to hire a lawyer and sue my dealership because of an APR stage 1 tune that wasn't even on the car? Just to recover SOME of the cost of what they "probably" screwed up.

So what's the lesson here, do your own oil changes? Don't pay for Audi Care? Lie your ass off to the dealership? Don't get your car tuned Unless you can afford an 8k engine replacement? Find a cheaper lawyer? (Example, one I've used in the past charges a flat fee of 1,000 dollars for basic paperwork and court appearances plus 200 an hour beyond that)... That being said, would not a sympathetic judge think it reasonable that Sunnyside Audi was at least potentially at fault when the engine failed less than 100 miles after they got done working on it? I'm not a legal expert, I'm not a mechanical expert, but I know there will be at least a few people who read this thread that are.

Everyone thinks they won't be a statistic, until they are. I fell into that category.


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## 15whiteA3 (Mar 1, 2015)

Damn, did you put the tune back on within the 3 days? If you didn't I wouldn't have mentioned it when I took it in. I was talking to my dealer and they said as soon as they see a tune on it they will flag it. But it sounds like in your case they didn't even hook it up to do anything. Crap situation though all around.


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## TripE46 (Feb 23, 2013)

Antariusz said:


> So I'm posting here for advice.
> 
> Took my car in for 15k service on 10/8 (audicare prepaid)
> 
> ...



Ugh that is rough dude! Sorry about your situation. I have spent a lot of time weighing the pros and cons of a stage 1 from APR. My car is a 16' so I would have to wait anyway, but your story will likely scare me off permanently. Even if they fouled something up when they were doing the 15k service you would have to find a way to prove that. I don't think it's worth hiring an attorney. You will spend more money futzing about with that, and if Audi can prove that you had the car tuned you don't really have a leg to stand on.

Where did you have the car tuned, the place that you took it first? Are they willing to work with you if you have them do the repairs?


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## turbo slc 2.9l (Dec 4, 2003)

I will admit this rough situation to be in.. But it sounds like you were fully aware of the consequences of tuning this car under warranty, and you went ahead with it anyway.. ( reminds me of somebody claiming " I thought if I wore a condom I can't get std's??) Taking risks are part of life, but you have to own up to the consequences.

Being honest normally works in your favor, but not in this case.. Would they have found the tune regardless of you telling? Who knows, but the cats out the bag now. 

Even if they did screw something up during service, they basically have a "get out of jail" card now to play against you.. 

It sucks & I'm sorry to be so blunt about it, but you have to realize when you tune your car, you are pretty much kicking your warranty to the curb if something catastrophic happens.. Putting you in the situation you are currently in.

Best to you & good luck


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## xbr80bx (Feb 2, 2007)

How does a tune cause your pan to crack? 
I don't think the tune or mods are the issue. 
The fact that it was driven for 3 days out of their control after the service is the issue.
They don't know if you hit something or not. 
It's possible they're responsible for cracking it, but who really knows? 
****ty situation. Hope it works out somehow.


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## dan_s3 (Jul 8, 2015)

Wow.....

I wouldn't have insisted telling them your car was tuned though unless they brought it up..


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

This makes me so frustrated, for the OP. Because I can't imagine the situation he/she's in. OP - you are correct, everyone likes to say YOLO! or "pay to play", until the problem occurs, and now like you said, YOU are the statistic. This situation is a little different than others we have seen because its not a turbo, or a clutch pack, etc. its the motor, and its right after your service. The interesting part to me is that Audi cant prove (currently) that the tune is what caused it to fail - and you cannot prove their negligence/service visit is what caused it to fail.

It sounds like you will be at a loss no matter what because of the tune and what you have been told. Which is a shame - and honestly this makes me think twice about tuning my new A3 because I have just this kind of luck. My best advice would be to determine the cause of failure and approach the service manager again and try to work it out. If that fails, go somewhere outside of the dealer for lower repairs. 

What vac line popped off? what about the misfire codes? Was any of this mentioned to the dealer?


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

I dont think a vacuum line would cause a cylinder specific misfire, more a lean code than anything. 

You sure you didnt run over any debris? Where you getting on it when you heard the pop? Motors tend to blow at Peak TQ. 

Did the dealership point out any other damage under the car indicating you hit or ran over something?


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

Wow I will be following this thread closely. Really sorry this happened to ya. 

When you brought the car in for the standard maintenance did you have your tune, exhaust, intake on the car? If you did I'm sure they put a TD1 flag on it without you even mentioning to them after the fact that you had those mods. 

If that is the case you may be in trouble. I do find it eerie that the car had problems only 50 miles after the service. This may be your saving grace that Audi might be willing to dig a little deeper. 

Like others have mentioned does the oil pan look like it was hit from underneath or do you think its looks like a connecting rod got plowed into the pan?

I think we all have a lot of questions without having to much information of what caused the catastrophic failure.


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## coolwater (Nov 27, 2007)

In my opinion I think you should file a collision claim under insurance. It does sound like you or the dealer hit something within those 3 days after the oil change.

-cW

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

turbo slc 2.9l said:


> I will admit this rough situation to be in.. But it sounds like you were fully aware of the consequences of tuning this car under warranty, and you went ahead with it anyway.. ( *reminds me of somebody claiming " I thought if I wore a condom I can't get std's??)* Taking risks are part of life, but you have to own up to the consequences.
> 
> Being honest normally works in your favor, but not in this case.. Would they have found the tune regardless of you telling? Who knows, but the cats out the bag now.
> 
> ...


I'd say the real risk would be going raw over the rarity of catching anything/or impregnating anything when your jimmy is armored up.


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

xbr80bx said:


> How does a tune cause your pan to crack?
> I don't think the tune or mods are the issue.
> The fact that it was driven for 3 days out of their control after the service is the issue.
> *They don't know if you hit something or not. *
> ...


Well if he hit something. Wouldn't the dealer see the body damage?


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

OP is there any body damage to your car?

I see a few posts say they wonder if you hit something. 


Did you hit something, or does it look like somebody hit you? 

Do you have the car or is it at the dealer?

Post pics.


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## turbo slc 2.9l (Dec 4, 2003)

gamegenie said:


> I'd say the real risk would be going raw over the rarity of catching anything/or impregnating anything when your jimmy is armored up.


I agree, going raw would heighten the risk substantially, it'd be like going big turbo with a race fuel tune & driving it to the limit daily while under warranty haha.. 

But a stage 1 tune with intake & exhaust would rarely cause catastrophic failure, & that's why so many people feel safe running that combo of mods while under warranty. But you could still have that slight chance of bad luck..(hence the condom reference haha). I'm also suspecting his tune had nothing to do with his engine blowing up, but if they flagged it for having a tune then it's going to be hard to fight.

Like someone else stated earlier, this is why I haven't pulled the trigger on a tune, it would be my dumb luck something like this would happen to me.

I would pursue like others have stated about checking the condition of the pan, &try to recall if you bottemed out or hit something. The pans are plastic, so I would imagine they could crack easily with enough impact. In that case though I'm sure your oil light would have came on for low pressure & also lack of oil..

Either way I'm sorry for your situation & hopefully Audi will work some magic for you.

Btw is it an A3 or S3?


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

Sorry I haven't responded to this thread, but I also had posted my story to reddit and the facebook group and I'd been following the messages there today.

I'll try to answer every question.

I had my tune for 8 months.

HS tuning says that if I have to pay out of pocket they will be able to significantly undercut the dealership on an engine replacement.

The dealership had the car for 6 days but refused to diagnose the car (ie: pull the oil pan down) and check to see what happened, until they "got authorization back from AoA"... That was the response on Thursday, Friday, and Monday. On monday the service manager told me that it didn't look good for Audi to cover the car, so that's when I told him I wanted to involve Geico, and that ultimately I might need to end up filing a lawsuit.

The vacuum line that popped off was the one that goes to the underside of the APR intake. The Error Codes were 0301 and 0302 both mentioned to the dealer.

As for if the oil pan cracked because there is pieces of a connecting rod sitting on it, or if it was from hitting something (Well I didn't hit anything, and there is a skid plate under the car anyway).... well I can speculate all day, but ultimately I'll likely find out tomorrow. Geico is having a technician look at the car tomorrow, and well at the very least there should be SOME kind of an idea of what went wrong. / what part failed.

During the service, the car was modified. I didn't try to hide anything from the dealer. I told them I returned the car to stock from the very beginning, but again, this seems stupid in retrospect. The service manager went from relatively short with me but at least "pleasant" the first day I called to get a status update to downright rude with me on subsequent calls after he questioned me if the car had been previously tuned, and I said "yes, like I told your advisor when I brought the car in, I returned it to stock form before bringing it in".

Right now I have a claim with geico for my MBI coverage. I don't have the car, I can't post up pics but there would be nothing to show, a small crack in the oil pan is the only sign of anything wrong with the car. It's an A3. Again, they spent 6 days with the car without any offer of loaner, or to offer to diagnose it for me, or even to have me pay for the diagnosis and go from there. The service manager has now, on 3 separate occasions suggested I should hire a lawyer and sue, and by suggesting I try going through insurance first that I am somehow "admitting fault for any problem with the car". Or that I wanted to wait and see what Audi's response was before I involved my insurance company... Or the fact that I had the car towed from HS Tuning, or the fact that I paid for my own tow from a local company instead of waiting for Audi's roadside assitance to show up. https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/3pgh12/engine_blew_up_3_days_after_15k_service/cw6t5rp

Obviously that "could" just be a troll, but I don't think so, that's the service manager at the dealership I purchased the car from.


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

Might be worth a watch. This was originally posted in the Golf R forums.


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

brennok said:


> Might be worth a watch. This was originally posted in the Golf R forums.


^^^ This. In my opinion there is no need to waste more time/money just on principle. pay for playing and be done with it if it comes to that.


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## Gernblanston (Oct 21, 2015)

Review the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act. Have all further communications with your dealer in writing only, no more phone calls. Send a polite but firm letter. Advise them that if they do not agree to cover the failure they need to explain, in writing, the cause of the failure and how it relates to any modification on the car. Advise them you are familiar with the Magnusson Moss Act. Tell your dealer that they have ___ days to respond. Check the Act, there may be a specific timeline. If not, I would give them 5 -10 days. If they do not respond tell them you will understand they have chosen not to inspect the car and determine the cause of the failure and that you will be taking your car to an independent shop for evaluation and repair - and you will sue them to enforce your rights under your warranty - if the independent shop determines the failure was not related/caused by any mod.

If your shop can't confirm cause or believes failure was related to mod, you might be screwed.

Good luck.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## coolwater (Nov 27, 2007)

Ok, so I suggest you find out if you are flagged TD1. If not then you should contact AOA and keep your story simple. As in car was fine when dropped off for 15k service, few days later oil pan cracks... no need for more details in between unless asked. And the reason you towed to your tuning shop was because you had an aftermarket part you wanted to confirm wasn't a problem first... right?

Geico MBI should cover it. They just need AOA to provide a letter of why they won't warranty the repair. However, if AOA puts in the letter you are TD1 from an ecu tune, then it will be harder to get Geico to cover it.

So key here is if you are flagged TD1 or not. I would no longer mention anything about any mods to your car unless it was documented already.

-cW 


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

that mag mossy act would NOT be the way to go. 

I have been on the manufacture side of these things and its VERY easy for them to prove their case, and 99.9999% of the time, the judge will side with the manufacture. 

Where you accelerating hard when the motor let go? just driving normal? 


I ve been a dealership tech for MANY years and have seen this situation many times. Just seems like we are missing part of the puzzle here.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

itr_1211 said:


> Given that you've been tuned for 8 months and the dealer touched your car just a day or 2 after this incident I would go with that latter.
> Did you check to see if there was any oil on the dipstick? Maybe a long shot but dealer may have forgotten and 50 miles with no oil might have just been enough time to grenade the engine.


He had oil, post mentions that after the pop and smoke his engine bay was flooded with the stuff.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

I'm confused why you took a blown engine to your tuning shop first, if you had any plan on warrantying the work, towing to the tuning shop first (especially when its apparently just a ~stage 1 apr) is a big red flag in your story. 

What is a tuning shop is going to do about your bombed engine under warranty ... ? Though it sounds like perhaps you weren't considering using the warranty for the work first.

Because it sounds more like "tuning shop, strip this extra crap off my car before I go in for a warranty" pit stop. But that makes the honesty you had with your dealer all the more odd, why remove mods you knew would get a TD1 flag, THEN tell the dealer essentially to flag you?

You even state the tune wasn't on the car at the time... did you bring it to the tuner to get the APR flashed back on your blown motor, or was it tuned again after the service but before the blown engine?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

sevenVT said:


> I'm confused why you took a blown engine to your tuning shop first, if you had any plan on warrantying the work, towing to the tuning shop first (especially when its apparently just a ~stage 1 apr) is a big red flag in your story.
> 
> What is a tuning shop is going to do about your bombed engine under warranty ... ? Though it sounds like perhaps you weren't considering using the warranty for the work first.
> 
> ...


X2...I assume the OP was honest and upfront only after it was determined aftermarket parts/tune were installed.

Kudus to the OP for being honest, it's embarrassing when I read that fellow members attempt to be deceptive and hide modifications!


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

FLtrooper said:


> X2...I assume the OP was honest and upfront only after it was determined aftermarket parts/tune were installed.
> 
> Kudus to the OP for being honest, it's embarrassing when I read that fellow members attempt to be deceptive and hide modifications!


Your assumption is 100% correct. I figured by being honest after they questioned me and directly asked me about it would engender some kind of goodwill, maybe they'd offer me something like a reduced labor rate or loaner car instead of the rental that I've been paying for out of pocket and likely will be stuck with for a while now or anything really when Audi of America denied the claim. Unfortunately it had the exact opposite effect, as soon as I admitted to the tune, the service manager became rude, started treating me like a criminal that had been trying to "trick them" previously with a returned to stock car and suggesting that I would need to sue to get anything other than contempt from him. 

And that's pretty much what I explained to Audi of America when I spoke to them today this afternoon. 

Geico inspected the car today, no decision yet from them, although they expect to know by tomorrow. They did ask me if my oil pan had ever been removed previously, I said it had not, but I thought was an odd question to ask. 

According to the service manager they found pieces of my #1 piston in the oil pan (how they were able to determine metal pieces in the pan were from the first piston and not the second he didn't know) he didn't say anything about damage to the block or anything, but full engine replacement might be the cheaper route than trying to "fix" it. He says their tech believes the piston disintegrated while the oil pump was still functioning. (Since I got no oil warning light until my oil pan cracked, this makes sense to me) if Geico denies my claim, well that's 2 hours of full rate dealer labor rate to drop the pan.

But at least I have an answer (at least partial) to what happened to my car. 8 days after my car broke down.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

Sadly goodwill seems unlikely considering the alternative to the warranty service for manufacturer defect is: blaming the dealer, your driving... or your mods. Seeing as how your mods immediately put the onus on the dealership to determine why and who, it just seems all that more likely that since the dealer won't get money out of AOA due to TD1 he has less wish to be generous with you. 

It's not either his money or yours and boy does yours sound better to everyone who isn't you. Of course in this case it could be your insurance.

I guess from his perspective he had to come out and ask if you about mods, you had essentially been lying to them by presenting the car de-tuned while driving the car daily on a tune. If the end result of your tune was that you'd get yourself flagged, the times you brought it in stock is essentially lying to them. I hold no judgements here, you do as you like, but I can see why the dealer has no big smiles and loaner cars available.

"Pay to play" is rather flippantly thrown about while the real ramifications are people play dice with their warranty which can be of huge monetary impact, and that can be debilitating for some people. Modding's financial dangers are brushed off because of the reliability places like APR and UNI tend to offer, but they don't offer financial security for anything that goes wrong with your car. You technically just give that security away for a little boost in "fun" and in a way I blame the community for being so cavalier. Our attitudes do result in people making less safe choices with one of their larger assets in their life. Yeah, I know, fun killer. 

Others are going to point to your post and use it as an example why not to be honest... hopefully it will just give people a better idea of the impact playing with your warranty period can have on your life.

I hope things work out for you, but this is just another example of why I won't mess with anything in my powertrain until my warranty period is out of the picture.


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

Update: Geico is saying they will not approve or deny my claim without definitive reason for the failure. They want additional diagnostic work because their technician was unable to determine the reason the piston failed. They asked me to approve 12 hours of work to remove the head and the remnants of the piston. 

I asked geico to clarify what they are hoping to learn by retrieving the broken piston piece out of the engine, and how that will determine why the part failed. I was told that they need to figure out what failed and why. My service manager tells me that they would not be able to give a definitive "why" the piston failing just by pulling it out of the engine. 

So that's where I am at today. I am waiting for a response back from Geico as to what they are hoping to see from the broken part, and how they will determine the "why" before I would approve what is 1500 in labor. Out of my pocket.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

sevenVT said:


> Others are going to point to your post and use it as an example why not to be honest... hopefully it will just give people a better idea of the impact playing with your warranty period can have on your life.
> 
> I hope things work out for you, but this is just another example of why I won't mess with anything in my powertrain until my warranty period is out of the picture.


I'm curious if honesty makes any difference, people often ask questions when the answer is already known. I imagine VAG could have determined the vehicle was tuned even if flashed back to stock.


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## coolwater (Nov 27, 2007)

Sounds like if you are already TD1 flagged then you're at the mercy of whatever AOA will cover. 

AUDI dealerships that used to sell Stasis would just flash you back to stock before plugging into audi for diagnostics. I found out about this when I asked the Stasis sales guy how the warranty worked. He flat out told me I had to go only to their dealership and thru him for all warranty work.

My point is that some dealerships were playing the same flash back to stock game to avoid TD1 if they sold these products also.

Guess piggyback is the way to go for now...

-cW

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

I think this whole TDI scandal has hardened Audi. 

Audi of America will even void your warranty if the Audi dealer installs Audi Genuine parts and activate features that were not offered to the US market. 


I'm so done with this brand.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

FLtrooper said:


> I'm curious if honesty makes any difference, people often ask questions when the answer is already known. I imagine VAG could have determined the vehicle was tuned even if flashed back to stock.


I doubt honesty matters in terms of the outcome, except of course if you are the only reason they flag you as TD1... My assumption is he has parts on the car other than a tune that implies he's having more fun than Audi intended and the questions were informed yet suspicious. 

"Do you know why I pulled you over?" I bet you know you were going 120 mph, but lets see if you incriminate yourself.

Technically if its you handing them a reason to deny warranty, the honesty hurt your warranty more than the tune. 

I've seen plenty saying that tunes and flash counters are reset by some AEM tuners, but like you state, they can probably see what the levels were around the time of the codes and see it was pushing something not stock. Still, the honesty is odd to me given he's intentionally removing the tune to avoid a TD1 on his service days.


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## Rmikelson (Jul 22, 2014)

I must have missed it. What kind of car?


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

Rmikelson said:


> I must have missed it. What kind of car?


A3 model it would seem


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Here is what I think. A vacuum line can absolutely cause the car to overboost, the way the overboost occurs is because the vacuum line going to the wastegate actuator will never push/pull on the WGA diaphragm nipple consequently the wate gate flapper nevers partially opens and stays shut causing the turbo to overboost. I learned this after owning 24 turbo cars .

What I don't understand is the correlation of the tune and the oil pan being crack. Again, I can see a oil pan causing a catastrophic engine damage by leaking oil and running the oil pan empty but you would have an indication of the low oil pressure on your cluster. I can also see that the dealer might have flashed the ecu back to stock and running an air filter would cause a change on the AFRs(Air to fuel ratio) but I don't think this is the case because I haven't seen a Mass Air Flow sensor on the Audi S3, it seem like they run with a speed density like device.

I am scratching my head thinking. It is very likely that the dealer didn't bother to run a full diagnosis to really pinpoint the problem. I don't think the APR tune was the issue unless the files were corrupted and you had a out of whack map with out of whack timing, ignition fuel maps.

Good luck either way, it sucks when that happens. I want to do a tune on my 16' S3 but I am taking my time deciding on a safe tune. I don't want peaky tunes., i want something conservative.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

sevenVT said:


> I'm confused why you took a blown engine to your tuning shop first, if you had any plan on warrantying the work, towing to the tuning shop first (especially when its apparently just a ~stage 1 apr) is a big red flag in your story.
> 
> What is a tuning shop is going to do about your bombed engine under warranty ... ? Though it sounds like perhaps you weren't considering using the warranty for the work first.
> 
> ...


He probably just took the car there for a little third party advise. i don't think he had the intent to had that hop work on the car, I am sure that he was just trying to be prepared to approach the dealer with a history. I think he acted right and straight forward


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## Trade-N-Games (Feb 22, 2008)

When I had my tune done last week via APR dealer i was offered via the tuner a 2 year plan for additional $150 as many flash backs to stock as i needed before service so i would not get flagged just going in for oil change and then flashed back. That was interesting. ITs seems funny to me that it has turned into such an issue with dealers. How big of a percentage are getting tuned? I would guess no more than 5% and of that how many don't have problems? Maybe its a bigger problem and happens more often than we as a group have figured out? 
As for the OP I hope this works out for you and you can absorb the setback. I think we are all missing some important info in the post from both dealer service and what op has said happened.


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

I dont think the repair cost and warranty claims alone are a big issue, but what happens when they determine the price of next years models, one of the factors is taking the total warranty cost of all warranty repairs, and dividing that by a number of cars that were produced, and that cost will be worked into the cost of the car for the following year.....Its a little more complicated than that, but thats the general idea...so a few 8-10k engine jobs out of warranty can mean much more than just that single repair.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> He probably just took the car there for a little third party advise. i don't think he had the intent to had that hop work on the car, I am sure that he was just trying to be prepared to approach the dealer with a history. I think he acted right and straight forward


See I have to doubt that because he has already said he de-tuned the car for services, which implies a history of not being up front, he was trying to not be a TD1, he was trying to save his warranty for just this eventuality.

You don't make additional stops to de-tune your car for previous services and cover up something you are going to be honest about anyways the day your engine blows, that's illogical. 

He went to the tuner for a detune and parts removal before bringing to the dealership, and he called his insurance company first because he didn't want to chance the warranty TD1 first if the insurance would cover the work at the tuner shop. He had no plan on making it apparent to the dealership.

Its all moot at this point, but his actions aren't some shining star example of integrity, he got caught because there was no other out.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

Trade-N-Games said:


> When I had my tune done last week via APR dealer i was offered via the tuner a 2 year plan for additional $150 as many flash backs to stock as i needed before service so i would not get flagged just going in for oil change and then flashed back. That was interesting. ITs seems funny to me that it has turned into such an issue with dealers. How big of a percentage are getting tuned? I would guess no more than 5% and of that how many don't have problems? Maybe its a bigger problem and happens more often than we as a group have figured out?
> As for the OP I hope this works out for you and you can absorb the setback. I think we are all missing some important info in the post from both dealer service and what op has said happened.


Its probably less the sheer number of people getting tuned and more likely the impact that even a small percentage could have on judging manufacturer defects they would want to suss out in future generations.

If a department were to say investigate all previous warranty claims on certain models in their line and found that X was statistically significant within the bulk of all warranty claims, that would be enough for any company to want to remove the anomaly, save themselves money and also clear the waters for better assessing failure trends within their current parts. 

We as customers don't prioritize their business or their post sale quality checking, so they have to.


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

I was 100% honest with my dealership. They asked if I had stock software on the car, I said yes, I have stock software installed. I also have a magnaflow muffler on the car right now (The cabriolet requires cutting 1" off the end of the downpipe to fit aftermarket exhausts making a full "return to stock" not an option, as well, I decided to keep on the aftermarket grille.

When I took my car in for the initial service visit I specifically asked not to be given any kind of ECU or software updates to the car, just to ONLY perform the Audi care maintenance that I had already paid for. They agreed to do just that.

When they asked if I had EVER had an ecu installed on the car, I said yes.

Update: Geico is unsure of how to proceed, the dealership is adamant that additional diagnostic would be unproductive and guesswork at best (thankfully).

If I do not hear anything back from Geico by Monday I will switch to plan C.

I received a quote from the Dealership for the cost of repairs.

Parts:
$9,150 
This is engine, turbo, motor oil. They are unsure if the turbo was damaged at all when my piston shredded. If they inspect the turbo and find that it is undamaged, it would be my option to replace or keep old turbo.
Labor, including diagnostic:
$3,375

Total:
12,525


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

Antariusz said:


> I was 100% honest with my dealership. They asked if I had stock software on the car, I said yes, I have stock software installed. I also have a magnaflow muffler on the car right now (The cabriolet requires cutting 1" off the end of the downpipe to fit aftermarket exhausts making a full "return to stock" not an option, as well, I decided to keep on the aftermarket grille.
> 
> When I took my car in for the initial service visit I specifically asked not to be given any kind of ECU or software updates to the car, just to ONLY perform the Audi care maintenance that I had already paid for. They agreed to do just that.
> 
> When they asked if I had EVER had an ecu installed on the car, I said yes.


Sure there's parts on the car that hint to modifications beyond the visible.

You took actions to avoid a TD1 (such as removing tuning software, or asking them to not hook up a computer) with parts and modifications knowingly installed that threatened your chances of being covered by warranty. 

You were attempting deception of AOA if you in anyway tried to avoid a TD1, there's no getting around that. 

That's not upfront, that's just mildly sneaky. 

If you get caught and you say "yup, I did it" it's not the same as turning yourself in. People's definition of honesty must be pretty broad when it comes to modding these days. :screwy:

I'm not gonna rail on this forever, but if I rustle around in your back pocket on the subway and you catch me with your wallet, I don't get to say "Yeah, but I wasn't trying to steal, and here's your wallet back, I'm an honest guy!" :sly:

Good luck dude, I don't trust your story. You've over compensated for what was supposed to be a stage 1.5 or so tune with additional insurance and avoidance of dealer diagnostics. 

I hope you don't end up eating 12 grand because of a 500 dollar mod... but I also don't think you are a straight shooter.

:beer:


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

It seems like it could be one or a combination of these issues:

1. Audi QA problem (a few lemons always sneak through).
2. Audi Dealership Tech problem (not sure how they could fcuk up this bad, even with the wrong oil, it shouldn't grenade this quickly right?).
3. Aftermarket tune is pushing this engine too hard, even though all the vitals looks good, not knocking etc. Its just too much stress on the internals in the long run.

I hope its not #3, though these 4-bangers are getting pushed a lot harder than they used to be, but I want to tune my s3 at some point.

good luck OP, hopefully your extra insurance covers it! if not, cancel it, since it sounds useless.


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## gamegenie (Aug 24, 2014)

are these 8Vs being pushed harder. 

Sometimes I wonder if my A3's engine is going to crap out when I heavy accelerate on it in Dynamic Mode and watch the tachometer go all the way up to near redline. 

and I drive stock. 


It seems like Audi already retired the old 2.0T engine with the new 2.0T engine on '16 A6 and new A4 that gets 252hp/273lb versus the old 220hp/258lbft turbo.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

gamegenie said:


> It seems like Audi already retired the old 2.0T engine with the new 2.0T engine on '16 A6 and new A4 that gets 252hp/273lb versus the old 220hp/258lbft turbo.


I haven't seen the model of the engine they are using in the a4/a6 but audi loves to tier their engine output by the model you purchase, its not necessarily an indicator of a newer better engine. In some cases its upgraded internals or a different turbo, in other cases it just appears to be software differences. If the A4 gets a significantly different engine I'd be surprised, I'm assuming its going to be an equivalent to the A3 but with 252 for no better reason than making sure A4 buyers feel special in their pants. (edit: of course I say that while driving around what is essentially a glorified a3 with a new letter ... umpkin


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

Your service advisor isn't your insurance rep. Contact your insurance company. Next step, get a lawyer.


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## reyoasian (Feb 22, 2015)

This makes me want to raise my car up for winter.....


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

Update:

First of all, Geico approved me for the cost of a used engine into my car 

When neither my dealership nor HS tuning was able to locate a used engine for sale, Geico approved the cost of a remanufactured engine to be installed in my car (total cost 8200 of which I will only pay 250, I offered to pay cost difference between theoretical used engine and remanufactured engine but they said that it would be unnecessary). I decided to go with dealership install over HS tuning because they offered me a loaner for the next two weeks over two more weeks of out-of-pocket car rental, plus my car was already there saving a towing fee. As part of deal on the remanufactured engine, Audi gets my "core" part, but my service manager assured me they would be interested in getting the engine back even though it might be significantly damaged. If not, I have a 1600 dollar paperweight.


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## coolwater (Nov 27, 2007)

Glad to see the mechanical breakdown insurance covered it. 

-cW

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## TripE46 (Feb 23, 2013)

Antariusz said:


> Update:
> 
> First of all, Geico approved me for the cost of a used engine into my car
> 
> When neither my dealership nor HS tuning was able to locate a used engine for sale, Geico approved the cost of a remanufactured engine to be installed in my car (total cost 8200 of which I will only pay 250, I offered to pay cost difference between theoretical used engine and remanufactured engine but they said that it would be unnecessary). I decided to go with dealership install over HS tuning because they offered me a loaner for the next two weeks over two more weeks of out-of-pocket car rental, plus my car was already there saving a towing fee. As part of deal on the remanufactured engine, Audi gets my "core" part, but my service manager assured me they would be interested in getting the engine back even though it might be significantly damaged. If not, I have a 1600 dollar paperweight.


Wow! That is huge! Not the outcome I was expecting, seems as if your honesty paid off in the long run. I'm blown away that Geico stepped up, really happy for you.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

TripE46 said:


> Wow! That is huge! Not the outcome I was expecting, seems as if your honesty paid off in the long run. I'm blown away that Geico stepped up, really happy for you.


Are you kidding me? What honesty? He paid for insurance the insurance doesn't care if he's modified. He's not lying to his insurance company, he's paying them.


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## Damurda face (Jul 8, 2017)

Antariusz said:


> I was 100% honest with my dealership. They asked if I had stock software on the car, I said yes, I have stock software installed. I also have a magnaflow muffler on the car right now (The cabriolet requires cutting 1" off the end of the downpipe to fit aftermarket exhausts making a full "return to stock" not an option, as well, I decided to keep on the aftermarket grille.
> 
> When I took my car in for the initial service visit I specifically asked not to be given any kind of ECU or software updates to the car, just to ONLY perform the Audi care maintenance that I had already paid for. They agreed to do just that.
> 
> ...


What was the build date on your A3?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 27turbocars (Jun 26, 2016)

Gernblanston said:


> Review the Magnusson Moss Warranty Act. Have all further communications with your dealer in writing only, no more phone calls. Send a polite but firm letter. Advise them that if they do not agree to cover the failure they need to explain, in writing, the cause of the failure and how it relates to any modification on the car. Advise them you are familiar with the Magnusson Moss Act. Tell your dealer that they have ___ days to respond. Check the Act, there may be a specific timeline. If not, I would give them 5 -10 days. If they do not respond tell them you will understand they have chosen not to inspect the car and determine the cause of the failure and that you will be taking your car to an independent shop for evaluation and repair - and you will sue them to enforce your rights under your warranty - if the independent shop determines the failure was not related/caused by any mod.
> 
> If your shop can't confirm cause or believes failure was related to mod, you might be screwed.
> 
> ...



Amen brother. Something on writing. A friend of mine did just that, it was 12 years ago when he purchased a Mitsubishi car, he hired a lawyer and he wrote a specific custom/tailored letter addressing some key points and demanding a response and warrant repairs.


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