# external crank trigger sensor



## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

2E block (same as ABA block, 2.0 tall block from mk3), TDI crankshaft 95.5m stroke.

I do not want to use stock ABF trigger wheel, as it is prone to failure.

so external trigger and sensor is option.

I was told it is possible to use this one, which is stock from some VW engines (not sure, maybe VW Polo), and it need to be pressed on crank.

this etka numbers is what I was told to order :

030 103 171 L - flange with trigger wheel
030 906 433 Q - sensor from VW Polo
1J0 973 723 - connector
000 979 133 A - crimped wires
357 972 741 A- seal


two numbers has changed, but it is not problem.

please, can someone confirm me this parts is possible to use as trigger and sensor, on 2E block and TDI crank.

also, which additional work is needed. I was told that one hole and thread have to be drilled on block, and trigger have to be pressed on crank.

tnx


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## npvk_x (Dec 11, 2011)

have a look here, page 3 show the bolt issue.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3516017-16v-MS-coilpack-but-no-crank-trigger-!


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

tnx!

bolt hole won't be problem, I can manage it without problem 

but, can you confirm me, is parts numbers I posted correct ones, can I order it with that number?

also, I see someone mention that you can't install it properly without some special tool. any info on that?


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

anyone?


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

030 103 171 Q or S will solve the hole problem.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

what do you plan on using for management? this is a HALL sensor, NOT a VR sensor like ABA. Why not use the internal ABA trigger wheel? We have no problem with them reving to 9400rpm


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

standalone, VEMS.

but, why many guys claim that internal crank sensor (ABF) is very prone to failure. I also seen pictures on vortex.

I'm interested for external sensors to be safe from possible failure, that is only reason.

I can order kit from 034 Motorsport.

also I can order that Lupo sensor, here in my city at VW service. they also told me that they have special tool for proper fitment.

now I have to decide.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

funny,
alot of people prefer the aba block internal crank sensor for the same reason, it's less prone to failure than external sensors. but supposedly the aba abf sensors are different.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

I've seen some people tack weld the bolts that hold the internal ABA trigger wheel. Wouldn't this or some other mod prevent any potential failures? 


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

in Europe, we don't have ABA engine. I have 2E block, it should be same but crank is not same, it do not have trigger wheel.

I have TDI crank, ABF trigger wheel can be mounted on TDI crank. but, as we can see many examples, it is prone to failure.

it will be extremly high hp engine at 8200rpm. I do not want any risk at all.

you are sure ABA trigger wheel is different from ABF? is there any pics?

if ABA trigger is so good, I would order it from someone in USA


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

as I heard, it is not problem in bolts, but in trigger wheel which is prone to failure / breaking.

if you are sure it is only problem in bolts, I will order some ARP2000 bolts and make threads for them in crank


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

It is most likely the same. The issue is not with the wheel it's with the bolts. When they let loose that's when the wheel gets messed up. Either tack bolts or weld wheel on.


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

if bolts just get loose, why any of them just don't fall off ? you can see all three of them broken, when trigger fail.

seriously, if only problem is bolts, I would modify all to fit better bolts or weld it. crank still is not balanced, but after all work, it will be send for knife edge and balance, so any modifications before balancing, won't be problem. that would save me money and work.

if anybody else also have any explanation about bolts, or trigger, as weak point prone to failure, please let us know. it is hard decision for me. tnx


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Does your block have the hole for the VR sensor? Is the crank tapped and ready for the wheel? If not you may want to look at putting something together yourself. This is what I did on my PL block.












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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4895321-Crank-Trigger-options&p=82644857#post82644857


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

20v_boost said:


> Does your block have the hole for the VR sensor? Is the crank tapped and ready for the wheel?



both answers is yes.

2E block originaly don't have hole for sensor, but we done it afterwards very precise (it took time to finish it exactly precise as factory ABF hole). it is pity not to use it 

TDI crank is ready for wheel (just same as ABF crank). TDI crank also have one pin on itself, which ABF crank doesn't. that pin now should also provide some more safety with trigger wheel.

if problem is only in bolts, I can modify crank and put more and also bigger bolts, or pins, to ensure additionally.


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## audib6neusp30 (Mar 2, 2008)

20v_boost said:


> Does your block have the hole for the VR sensor? Is the crank tapped and ready for the wheel? If not you may want to look at putting something together yourself. This is what I did on my PL block.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

It's just two pieces of steel welded together. One has the two holes for bolting to the power steering bracket, the other has one big hole for the sensor. They are welded at 90 degrees.

Here's a closer shot.









The trigger wheel is another story. It's a flat wheel from ebay with some machining done to it, the pulley, and a custom hub for both of them. I think repoman makes a nice wheel that just bolts on with a 1.8T crank pulley.

-Alex


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## audib6neusp30 (Mar 2, 2008)

Yeah I'm using the repoman wheel, great product for the price


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## adversary_turbo (Jul 17, 2007)

if only problem is in bolts on internal ABF sensor, than why I have to spend money on any other sensors and triggers.

I ordered bolts which is like factory ones, but M8, and grade 10.9

there is no way to break it that easy. and also, I have additinal pin which I mentioned already, it will also help a little.


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## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

adversary_turbo said:


> if only problem is in bolts on internal ABF sensor, than why I have to spend money on any other sensors and triggers.
> 
> I ordered bolts which is like factory ones, but M8, and grade 10.9
> 
> there is no way to break it that easy. and also, I have additinal pin which I mentioned already, it will also help a little.


Sounds like the best solution! 
and torque down according to the bolt torque specs for m8 grade 10.9 and you should have zero problems :thumbup:


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

adversary_turbo said:


> if only problem is in bolts on internal ABF sensor, than why I have to spend money on any other sensors and triggers.
> 
> I ordered bolts which is like factory ones, but M8, and grade 10.9
> 
> there is no way to break it that easy. and also, I have additinal pin which I mentioned already, it will also help a little.



It really depends on your application and your build level.

I lost in competition twice for the same reason on a balanced crank and clutch pack with a fluidamper. Ripping RPMs
to 9krpm 1st and 2nd gear with 360wtq. In Drag racing That's called "Gripping it and ripping it." You might want to go the extra mile for durability.
if you are sport driving then the OEM setup is just fine.
:beer::beer:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

I try my best to defer people from using the kits which replace the rear crank seal housing.
Get a 60-2 wheel on the accessory pulley and you are golden.:thumbup:


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

What's the issue with the rear crank seal trigger setup? Do they tend to fail or are they difficult to get working right? Just curious.

-Alex


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

20v_boost said:


> What's the issue with the rear crank seal trigger setup? Do they tend to fail or are they difficult to get working right? Just curious.
> 
> -Alex


You need a 60-2 wheel for most standalone systems (so that is 2 teeth missing every 360* phase). The rear trigger set ups that most have been posting (Late 2.0 TDI , Polo etc) are 60-2 wheels BUT they have a missing tooth every 180* phase so technically they are 30-1 w/180* phase wheels.
Simplicity - The ECU will think that half a rotation = full rotation = :thumbdown:

Then there is the other issue where the impulse ring is press fit onto the crankshaft flywheel hub (that is actually how it is held in :screwy. I thought about machining an impulse wheel that would use this housing and would sit between the flywheel hub and flywheel but then you would need to mill/lathe the back side of the flywheel 1.5mm to accommodate the thickness of the impulse wheel. At the end of the day you need to decide if the cost is worth it vs what is allready available on the market. As it stands our external trigger wheel kit is still the most logical solution on the market and we only use the 048 impulse wheel in our kits now.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Missing tooth every 180? That's crazy. MS doesn't even support that (now). I wonder if they do that to sync up faster (together with a cam wheel of course).

Yeah I'm not too crazy about the press fit either.

-Alex


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

Issam Abed said:


> You need a 60-2 wheel for most standalone systems (so that is 2 teeth missing every 360* phase). The rear trigger set ups that most have been posting (Late 2.0 TDI , Polo etc) are 60-2 wheels BUT they have a missing tooth every 180* phase so technically they are 30-1 w/180* phase wheels.
> Simplicity - The ECU will think that half a rotation = full rotation = :thumbdown:




uhm?? what? if what you say is true, it has to be because there are different versions of this wheel..


i know a few who runs these wheels with no problems using, MS, VEMS etc..


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

weejunGL said:


> uhm?? what? if what you say is true, it has to be because there are different versions of this wheel..


I would imagine that you would check the # of teeth on the wheel before installation but this is a 2.0 TDI 03L unit and its the same # of teeth as the Polo unit.
Not sure what part # people are using to make it work but still it is not a very efficient set up.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Here is my product. I have sold a few dozen over the years.
60-2 wheel works great.


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## audib6neusp30 (Mar 2, 2008)

Best wheel so far, thank you don or hooking me up with that


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Happy to help out fellow enthusiast. 
:beer::beer:


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## npvk_x (Dec 11, 2011)

Does this mount at the timingchain sproket/under the serpentine pulley?


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

npvk_x said:


> Does this mount at the timingchain sproket/under the serpentine pulley?


Yes


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## Len405 (Nov 14, 2013)

This is of great interest to me!

Where can I get this set up?


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## giovajetta (Dec 7, 2009)

Len405 said:


> This is of great interest to me!
> 
> Where can I get this set up?


Me to 👍


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## Len405 (Nov 14, 2013)

Who does this in the UK???


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Try these guys http://trigger-wheels.com

IMHO, Repoman has the best, most turn-key setup. Or you could try 034-EFI.


-Alex


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## Len405 (Nov 14, 2013)

trigger wheels don't do one for my application


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## RasPL (May 8, 2016)

*G28 pinout*



adversary_turbo said:


> 030 906 433 Q - sensor from VW Polo
> [/URL]


Have anyone pinout of this sensor ? I know that this is Hall sensor so it have +5V, Gnd and signal out but which pin coresponds to which function ? I can't find any information about it


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