# 2.0 aba crank in 1.8 block



## boostedmark2 (Jul 14, 2009)

hey im thinking about putting a crank from a aba 2.08v block motor into a 1.8 8v block. has anybody done this before? and if you have what will it make the motor stroke into? please help. wanna build my bottom end really uniquely. happy new year every one.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

They did this. 
All the 9As (2.0 16v from a 90-92 GTI 16v/B3 Passat) engines, and the 3As (Audi 80 4cyl) had the exact same stroke (92.8mm) as the ABA has. The cranks are slightly different at the ends due to the ABA having a 60-2 trigger wheel, but outside of that...no diff. Some folks will argue that the OBD1 cranks ARE different (forged), but that means bupkiss when you're talking about stroke







.



_Modified by B4S at 11:42 AM 1-6-2010_


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## boostedmark2 (Jul 14, 2009)

so im good if i do this then? basically.


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## boostedmark2 (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: (boostedmark2)*

oh wow. so if i do put the 2.0 crank in the 1.8 then its not gunna make a difference?


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (boostedmark2)*

You have to do a little thinking also, like the difference between the 1.8 stroke (84.6mm) and the 2.0 stroke (92.8mm). The difference, 8.2mm, is how much higher the pistons will travel if that is the only modification done. That equals piston hitting cylinder head and no running engine. You could bore it larger and use 3A or 9A pistons or have custom rods made, but then why not just save money and buy one of those engine blocks? Also some grinding might be required in the engine webbing, can't say never having done it.


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## boostedmark2 (Jul 14, 2009)

*Re: (WaterWheels)*

well im going turbo so for the bottom end i was going to go with 9:1 je pistons. being that the current compression is 10:1 so i guess the clearance with the head and block will be good enough. or should i get the motor and just do the turbo and stroke that? i just dont want to bore anything bigger to make the cylinder walls thinner.


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## karl_1052 (Feb 10, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_They did this. 
All the 9As (2.0 16v from a 90-92 GTI 16v/B3 Passat) engines, and the 3As (Audi 80 4cyl) had the exact same stroke (92.8mm) as the ABA has. The cranks are slightly different at the ends due to the ABA having a 60-2 trigger wheel, but outside of that...no diff. Some folks will argue that the OBD1 cranks ARE different (forged), but that means bupkiss when you're talking about stroke







.

_Modified by B4S at 11:42 AM 1-6-2010_

But they used shorter rods than the ABA.
Basically, you will spend a lot of money to make a 3A/9A motor, which you can get for $100 used.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (boostedmark2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boostedmark2* »_well im going turbo so for the bottom end i was going to go with 9:1 je pistons. being that the current compression is 10:1 so i guess the clearance with the head and block will be good enough. or should i get the motor and just do the turbo and stroke that? i just dont want to bore anything bigger to make the cylinder walls thinner.









Sell the 1.8 and buy a 2.0 if you want a bigger displacement engine.


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## rocco 4.5 (Feb 19, 2006)

First off the 1.8 stroke is 86.4mm not 84.6 for a difference of 6.4mm not 8.2mm.
Second, the 1.8l block doesn't have the clearance required for the 2.0l crank. There is no stroking a 1.8l. You can only bore it to a 1.9l. If you want displacement and stroke you put a diesel 95.5mm crank into a 2.0l block.


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## 1.8kid (Nov 8, 2007)

*Re: (rocco 4.5)*

the 16v crank will fit and it is forged so its stronger if ur planning to run alot of power this would work amazingly


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (boostedmark2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boostedmark2* »_well im going turbo so for the bottom end i was going to go with 9:1 je pistons. being that the current compression is 10:1 .... i just dont want to bore anything bigger to make the cylinder walls thinner.









The pin height on 1.8L pistons doesn't work with the longer stroke of the 2.0L crank so, you can't just use "off the shelf" 1.8L J.E. pistons, you'll need to get pistons custom made. Explain what it is you're doing to the J.E. sales rep and they'll make you get what you need.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (rocco 4.5)*

*OH MY GOD!!* I slipped and wrote down the numbers backwards and even didn't notice when doing some math







Please forgive the crap out of me, but it could have been pointed out a bit more civil and friendly, no? And it does not change the fact that the mis-match exists either, right?
Maybe the easy way of stroking, using existing VW parts, may not work, but you can stroke a 1.8, you can stroke any engine if you want to do the work and pay the price. Even ages old methods like welding and machining work on VW engines just like they did on Fords, Chevys and Mopars. Companies used to sell stroker kits, Autotech for one, but they were expensive for most people. Articles have been written on installing 90mm cranks, and I believe I've read ones on 2.0L cranks also in the 1.8L engine. So it may cost some cash and require some elbow grease, but stroking can be done if one really wants to.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (1.8kid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8kid* »_the 16v crank will fit and it is forged so its stronger if ur planning to run alot of power this would work amazingly

No, it is not forged. Vortex myth. The only forged crank is the OBD1 ABA.
The second myth is that the cast cranks are weaker. Not so either. There isn't a single ABA turbo setup out there that even comes CLOSE to damaging a cast crank.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
No, it is not forged. Vortex myth. The only forged crank is the OBD1 ABA.


I beg to differ on this statement. I believe the only cas crankshaft installed in a watercooled VW engine was during a year or two in the 1.7L engine. I'm not 100% sure of the engine and I think it was used in Dodge Omni or something, not a VW if I recall. All one has to do is look at a VW crankshaft, or the rods for that matter, and you can see they are fordged, not cast. That goes for the ABA engines, OBD1 and OBD2, they both carry the same part number. Be glad to see someone post up a picture of their "cast" crankshaft or rods for inspection. Just take a clear close-up of the seam that runs along the centerline.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The 1.5s are well known as a cast crank. I've got an OBD1 ABA crank at home I can inspect, as well as a 9A IIRC. I'll take a look.


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## karl_1052 (Feb 10, 2008)

*Re: (rocco 4.5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco 4.5* »_First off the 1.8 stroke is 86.4mm not 84.6 for a difference of 6.4mm not 8.2mm.
Second, the 1.8l block doesn't have the clearance required for the 2.0l crank. There is no stroking a 1.8l. You can only bore it to a 1.9l. If you want displacement and stroke you put a diesel 95.5mm crank into a 2.0l block.


Are you aware that most of the big VW shops offered bored and stroked 1.8s(up to 2.1L) back in the 80s before the ABA was available?
http://www.autotech.com/prod_engine_engkit.htm
Bore: 83.5mm
Stroke: 92.8mm
2035cc displacement


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (karl_1052)*

I thought all cranks OBD1 and below were forged? 
Hm!
Steve-


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (BSD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BSD* »_I thought all cranks OBD1 and below were forged? 
Hm!
Steve-

AFAIK, most were. There were a few exceptions, but I don't think that any of the earlier 1.8 or 2.0L cranks 8v or 16v were cast.


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

I didn't think so either, because the crank in my car was forged and its an 84. ( can't vouch for all cars, but I thought for the most part they were all forged from the factory )
Steve-


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_The 1.5s are well known as a cast crank. 

Could have been the 1.5 and not the 1.7 as the gray matter breaks down over time.


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## eibsor (Sep 10, 2006)

The crank in my old 87 1.8 8v jetta was forged and the cranks in my garage came from one 92 1.8 8v golf and a 90 1.8 8v jetta both forged.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Forged versus cast crankshafts*

Forged versus cast cranks (applies to all first generation or external waterpump blocks):
Almost always CAST: '78-'80 1.5 8V (1457cc, 73.4mm short stroke); '84-on longitudinal 1.8 8V (e.g., Audi 4000, VW Fox, 86.4mm stroke); '96-'99 OBD2 2.0 8V crossflow (92.8mm stroke); '97-on longitudinal 1.8T 20V (although sales literature erroneously claimed that they were forged, 86.4mm stroke). 
Almost always FORGED: '76-'83 transverse 1.6 (80mm stroke), 1.7 (86.4mm stroke, sized for 136mm rods) or 1.8 8V (86.4mm stroke); '86-'92 1.8 and 2.0 16V (92.8mm stroke); Audi 2.0 8V (3A, 92.8mm stroke); '93-'95 OBD1 2.0 8V crossflow (92.8mm stroke with trigger wheel); Probably all 80mm stroke cranks for automotive applications. 
Sometimes forged, sometimes cast: '84-on 1.8 8V (86.4mm stroke); '99-on transverse 1.8T 20V (86.4mm stroke). I have also heard that about the Omni/Horizon "1.7" supposedly using a cast crank, but I never bothered to look. 
Cast cranks are more likely in non-German built engines, particularly Brazilian and Mexican production from late 80s. On the other hand, most engines rebuilt by VAG in Canada seem to have forged cranks, even where original would have been cast (I suspect they just scrap the cast cranks when encountered during rebuild so the engine can be used in more applications without complaint -- that is, so the warehouse has to store less inventory). 
Interestingly, I've found that more 10:1 CR Digifant engines had cast than 8.5:1 and/or CIS engines, but I've seen occasional cast cranks in all. For example, I have an '88 Golf Digifant 1.8 10:1 engine apart right now, and was disappointed to find it has cast crank (especially since that's why I took it apart -- needed the crank for a different project). The cast cranks do seem to be quite strong though, even if not ultimately as strong as forged. Luckily, the crank is never the weak link in VAG products (at least not at 2x-3x stock output levels). That honor seems reserved for rods and/or pistons, depending on the particular app/mods/poison. 
EDIT: Added some year ranges, displacements in cc, and stroke lengths in mm for clarification purposes.


_Modified by o2bad455 at 4:14 PM 1-31-2010_


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: Forged versus cast crankshafts (o2bad455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_Be glad to see someone post up a picture of their "cast" crankshaft or rods for inspection. Just take a clear close-up of the seam that runs along the centerline.

The offer still stands, untill the pictures are in . . .


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: Forged versus cast crankshafts (WaterWheels)*

This isn't my picture so don't ask me anything about it, I just found it on Google, all I know is it labelled as a cast ABA crank.








And for comparison, here's my forged ABA crank. The difference between the parting line on the two cranks is very obvious. It should be noted that most VW cranks, at least those prior to the OBD2 ABA are forged. As for cast rods, I've never seen one, I've heard some of the newer ones are cast; I can't confirm or refute that but, I can say any rods made prior to the introduction of the MK4 were forged.











_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 11:39 AM 1-31-2010_


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (WaterWheels)*

1.5 cranks are NOT cast. i have three 1.5 diesels, 2 ancient ones, and one less ancient one. all 3 have forged cranks. and my 1.6 td, forged crank too.
pretty sure diesels are gonna be all forged anyway.
and as for the omni/horizon motor.. do you think vw would sell dodge a good engine for such a crappy little car? they sold dodge the rejects pretty much lol.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Glegor)*

There were two completely different 1.5L gasoline engines made, the earlier ones had a small bore 76.5mm and a longish stroke of 80mm, the later ones were basically destroked 1.6L engines with 79.5mm bore and 73.4mm stroke. The short stroke crank is the one that's supposedly cast.


_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 12:25 PM 1-31-2010_


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

Can't dispute the top picture as being a cast crank and it also seems to be a VW engine. I don't deal with any ABA engine here so I can only go by ETKA as for OBD I and OBD II. If I checked the two according to the years people say they split then they both carry the same part number, makes that picture strange or interesting then. A cast rod would be a dangerous item in my book, maybe some US production low power engines might use them but I doubt you will find any in European autos.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (WaterWheels)*

I think maybe the part numbers are the same because from a functional point of view the cast and forged ABA cranks are 100% interchangeable. That's just my best guess but you're right, it is strange/interesting.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (ABA Scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABA Scirocco* »_
There were two completely different 1.5L gasoline engines made, the earlier ones had a small bore 76.5mm and a longish stroke of 80mm, the later ones were basically destroked 1.6L engines with 79.5mm bore and 73.4mm stroke. The short stroke crank is the one that's supposedly cast.

_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 12:25 PM 1-31-2010_

I agree. When I said "1.5", I probably should have said "1457cc". I don't know what the earlier small bore 1471cc gas crank was, but I suspect forged. I also suspect forged for *all* diesels, but my observations relate only to gas engines.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (WaterWheels)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WaterWheels* »_A cast rod would be a dangerous item in my book, maybe some US production low power engines might use them but I doubt you will find any in European autos.

My posts above were only about cranks -- not rods. However, I have heard that the Mk4 (06x engines) and possibly early 1.8T (058 engines) changed the rod manufacturing process from conventional forging to some sort of fancy pressure casting, that's supposed to be *almost* as strong as forging (and much stronger than traditional casting). The change was supposedly made to speed up the manufacturing process, and is supposed to relate to at least the 144mm/19mm wristpin rods. 
I have yet to actually inspect one of those newer rods, though, although there's currently a broken one inside my 99 1.8T (if that's really the type it has). When I finally get into it, I'll try to do a rod comparison of '99 AEB 144mm/20mm versus circa-'89 PL/9A 144mm/20mm, and take pics if there's any interesting difference.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (o2bad455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_ I don't know what the earlier small bore 1471cc gas crank was, but I suspect forged. 

The info I've got says forged, I don't know how reliable that info is but never seen any that contradicts it.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Glegor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Glegor* »_pretty sure diesels are gonna be all forged anyway.

Yes, I think you're probably right for diesel automotive applications. All bets are off, though, on the industrial diesels that VW sells for use in things such as giant air compressors. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Glegor* »_and as for the omni/horizon motor.. do you think vw would sell dodge a good engine for such a crappy little car? they sold dodge the rejects pretty much lol.

That's funny. Have you ever noticed how most of the VW gas blocks have the displacement spelled out on the back (e.g., "1.6", "1.8", "2.0")? Well, now consider that the VW 1.7 says "H" on the back, while the *H*orizon block says "1.7" on the back. When I first noticed that, I thought of some Dodge/Plymouth rep inspecting the first batch of engines that they were to receive, noticing an "H" instead of a "1.7", and demanding that they be given the "1.7" engines instead. Ever play poker? For the cast crank to have been in the "1.7" rather than the "H" from the get-go, the VW folks must have played their hand quite well.


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