# '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days



## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

I've been reading this forum for years as I own an '03 Passat W8. Up until two weeks ago, this car ran like a top. 
I had heard about torque converter and cam adjuster issues on this forum, but, never had experienced it in the 95K miles I've owned this car (got it new). 
After a routine oil change (religiously kept to the maintenance schedule), a CEL code popped up that was translated to a Torque Converter service for ~$2.8K. Always one to hold cars unless it is financially no longer viable, I decided after consultation with the service manager and the mechanic to do this service. 
Upon pulling into their garage, the car began a slight vibration (just slight) and another CEL code popped up, but, I did not have a reader available to see what the code was (dealer had cleared the previous one). I asked the dealer to check the code and consult with me once they reported to me what that code was. They never did.
After 5 days, I received a call that the car is ready, but, the CEL code that popped up was translated to a cam adjuster issue and would cost another $6.5K-$7K to fix. Feeling "bad", they decided not to charge me for the torque converter service and I limped home. They car now vibrates 10x as hard and spews black smoke. 
I was told that the cats will fail once they fill up with carbon, so, this car is a total loss. So, I decided to take them to court.
Last Friday, I got a call from the dealer (service mgr) and they said that they are going to ask VW corporate to fix the car completely (for free) so that I can at least become a "semi-satisfied" customer. I said "We'll see". 
My question to those of you in the forum is the following:
* has the dealer ever tried to do something like this to you
* were they successful in getting them to do the service?
* was it VW corporate techs that fixed it?
* did they car work like it did when you brought the car in to them in the beginning?
Thanks!
Dean


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## black4motion (Dec 24, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

Don't hold your breath waiting for VWOA to fix anything for free. I am in contact with them for the cam adjuster problem, and I'm even forking over my own money to do the clutch and O2 sensors ($2-3K) and no one is budging. The car's been in the shop almost a month and as soon ass they "fix" it I'm going to sue everyone I can think of. Every W8 owner should be calling VWOA and raining hell, as well as contacting their states Atty General office.


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## VWTECHBOB$ (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

As you know this was a common problem with the W8. When I was still at the dealer vwoa helped many times on the cam adjuster issue. You may also call vwoa for help. Just know that being nice is the key to getting the help. Pissed off customers get pushed aside. Good luck. If you were closer I could give you more help.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (VWTECHBOB$)*

I just got word that VWofA and the dealer are willing to subsidize this work. They did not give specifics, but, that will come in the next couple of days. I didn't hear the voice mail well enough but it sounded like they would pay for half of the camshaft work.
If I (and the dealer for that matter) had known this was a common problem when I purchased the car new in '03, I would have passed on this and just taken a VR6 AWD. But that's neither hear nor there now.
I know your comments are trying to help, but, me being nice to a company representing the manufacturer of a car that was IMHO known to have issues from the beginning (or at least they are negligent in their testing process) is silly. The fact of the matter is, they've lost a customer and gained a fervent anti-VW spokesperson if they aren't nice to me!!!
I'll keep you posted on what transpires.


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## VWTECHBOB$ (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

Don't get me wrong I am not on vwoa side. It just happens I was the W8 tech before I left the dealer. I own an indepent vw audi shop now. After doing 30 or so cam adjuster jobs I just feel for you. Also know that this problem did not begin until late 04 early 05. Most of the time around 40K. VWOA was done selling the W8 in the U.S. before the problems began. You can I.M. if you want more info or good pics of what the job really takes. Make sure the dealer has a tech that has good knowledge of this vehicle.


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## black4motion (Dec 24, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

Can you provide info on this "subsidy" as it happens? My car has been in the shop for a month now and the dealer isn't even giving me a break on the O2 sensors or clutch I'm adding to the job. For everyone with a W8 cam adjuster special it probably would help if you called VWOA, as they seem to be "unaware" of the problem.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (VWTECHBOB$)*

I just got word that VWofA and the dealer are willing to subsidize this work. They did not give specifics, but, that will come in the next couple of days. I didn't hear the voice mail well enough but it sounded like they would pay for half of the camshaft work.
If I (and the dealer for that matter) had known this was a common problem when I purchased the car new in '03, I would have passed on this and just taken a VR6 AWD. But that's neither hear nor there now.
I know your comments are trying to help, but, me being nice to a company representing the manufacturer of a car that was IMHO known to have issues from the beginning (or at least they are negligent in their testing process) is silly. The fact of the matter is, they've lost a customer and gained a fervent anti-VW spokesperson if they aren't nice to me!!!
I'll keep you posted on what transpires.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

OK, on Thursday of last week, I got word from my VW dealer that VWofA and the dealer will subsidize the work of the cam adjusters to the point where the cost of doing both torque converter and cam adjusters will be for the price of the torque converter change. 
So, for both sets of work, this will run me ~$3.5K. I unfortunatley, had to pay for the torque converter, so, I eat that cost (the price above includes that).
Basically, VWofA understood that situation that I had. A person who has been and is looking to maintain their car for the long term and the design of the car fails them.
In the beginning of this ordeal, I vowed to never buy a VW/Audi (or even German car for that matter) ever again and told people to do the same. Although the ordeal is not over yet (the car will be ready by early next week), I still will not buy another "funky" German car again, but, I no longer advertise that opinion. If the "fix" works, and over a period of time, I no longer see any other "major" issues, then I will consider another VW/Audi/German car.
But, this ordeal is not over yet--stay tuned.


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## flavin42 (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

my recent experience with VWOA was mixed. From a follow thru perspective, they did what they said they would do in the timelines they first claimed, however, they didnt offer to assist in covering anything even though my w8 had 57K miles and 3 months over the 5 year warrantee period. They told me to deal directly with the warrantee company and that there wasnt anything they could do... even though I bought the warrantee thru a dealership..... luckily, it all worked out OK in the end and the warrantee company paid but what a terrible stress.. not sure whether or not I was going to be out 5 to 8 thousand dollars... the cost to fix is CRAZY high.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

OK, on Thursday of last week, I got word from my VW dealer that VWofA and the dealer will subsidize the work of the cam adjusters to the point where the cost of doing both torque converter and cam adjusters will be for the price of the torque converter change. 
So, for both sets of work, this will run me ~$3.5K. I unfortunatley, had to pay for the torque converter, so, I eat that cost (the price above includes that).
Basically, VWofA understood that situation that I had. A person who has been and is looking to maintain their car for the long term and the design of the car fails them.
In the beginning of this ordeal, I vowed to never buy a VW/Audi (or even German car for that matter) ever again and told people to do the same. Although the ordeal is not over yet (the car will be ready by early next week), I still will not buy another "funky" German car again, but, I no longer advertise that opinion. If the "fix" works, and over a period of time, I no longer see any other "major" issues, then I will consider another VW/Audi/German car.
But, this ordeal is not over yet--stay tuned.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

OK, on Thursday of last week, I got word from my VW dealer that VWofA and the dealer will subsidize the work of the cam adjusters to the point where the cost of doing both torque converter and cam adjusters will be for the price of the torque converter change. 
So, for both sets of work, this will run me ~$3.5K. I unfortunatley, had to pay for the torque converter, so, I eat that cost (the price above includes that).
Basically, VWofA understood that situation that I had. A person who has been and is looking to maintain their car for the long term and the design of the car fails them.
In the beginning of this ordeal, I vowed to never buy a VW/Audi (or even German car for that matter) ever again and told people to do the same. Although the ordeal is not over yet (the car will be ready by early next week), I still will not buy another "funky" German car again, but, I no longer advertise that opinion. If the "fix" works, and over a period of time, I no longer see any other "major" issues, then I will consider another VW/Audi/German car.
But, this ordeal is not over yet--stay tuned.


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## german performance (Sep 5, 2004)

for what its worth, a cheap fix... run motor flush thru the engine oil, ( at your own risk, liabilaty issue) I did it in my nephews w8, thru my VW shop, it cleared all the sludge up, and a year later no problems!


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: (german performance)*

Dealer already tried that as per VWofA recommendation. Apparently, the color/consistency of the flush never changed when it came out of the motor. They tried it multiple times.
I've heard stories (don't know if it was in this forum) where the adjuster casing has a screen where the oil enters the part. The design of the casing filter is such that any kind of out-of-norm movement (like taking down the engine/tranny for a torque converter change) could be enough for these screens to partly disconnect and "fold" onto themselves causing a blockage. It doesn't take long at that point for the problem to get really bad.
I've had the "misfire" issues on and off for a couple of years now (never knew it could have been the adjusters), but, frequent oil changes have kept it "under control". It wasn't until the car had its first major repair that they decided to fail.
So, not only will my dealer replace the adjusters, it will also replace the casing around it to make sure that these screens use the newly designed replacement part.
I didn't know that these casings were a separate part from the actual adjusters.
Anyone heard of this before?


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## black4motion (Dec 24, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

I'm glad they're "helping" you to a point. However, for a car that has all the qualities of one that should be recalled, I don't feel they are doing enough. Mine has been back together for a week, and they will not return it because they say they can't clear the check engine light. What is really going on is anybody's guess. If I decide to sue VWOA I will let everyone know so that you can jump aboard. In the mean time, you should be calling VWOA if you've had any problems with cam adjusters or torque converters


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (black4motion)*

Keep us informed. 
I believe that the best tactic is a class action law suit. Separate suits do not provide for an overall solution to a problem that is widespread.
My issue is well known to VWofA as they are subsidizing this fix. 
I still haven't received my car back, although it should be in by early next week. We'll see if we have the same issue.


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

It shouldn't have had to go that far. To quote you $6500-$7500 additional while the trans is out doing the t/c is harsh....


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## nickgnelson (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (black4motion)*

Ugh...I am in the same boat. I bought my 2003 w8 passat 6 weeks ago and now the dealership is telling me it's going to be around $5,000 to fix it. Of course I am at 52,000 miles and just out of warranty. 
My primary complaint is that if these oil screens are coming loose and causing the cam adjustor/sensor to fail, why hasn’t there been a recall yet, if so many people are having this problem? I also read that when this repair is done, that they are replacing this part with the screens, with an updated one. So they fixed this part knowing that it fails…? It’s a known issue, there should be a recall!!
I have spoken to vwoa and they will not help at all. I would like to offer any assistance in bringing forth a law suit...



_Modified by nickgnelson at 7:59 AM 8/15/2008_


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## 97JazzBlueDE (May 9, 2001)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (nickgnelson)*

Welcome as a new member of the W8 crowd that has encountered the dreaded cam adjuster problem. Just had mine done recently to the tune of $10k all paid for by VWof A since my car luckily was still under the factory powertrain warranty.
Check out the website exclusively for the W8 crowd for more info: http://www.w8forum.dk
Happy Motoring! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## black4motion (Dec 24, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (nickgnelson)*

The drivetrain warranty is 60K I believe. Make sure you check and do not let them rob you of coverage, because they will try. 
As an update we got our W8 back after 6 weeks, $9K plus $2K of our own money, the car ran for a week and now has broken down again. Seems to be the same problem. VWOA tries to do nothing and I've never heard any details about how they "subsidize" any of this work. Class action or VW buyback/insurance total - for fair value - seems to be the course of action that should be forced on them as most of these cars will probably never really run again.


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (black4motion)*

The lasto ne I did before I left the dealer business.....


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (Slimjimmn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slimjimmn* »_The lasto ne I did before I left the dealer business.....









i see that a lot when i visit my local dealer, a lot of passats r always being ripped apart


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## Miss W8 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (71DubBugBug)*

My 03' Passat W8 has been with my local VW dealership for over a month. First they replaced one set of cam adjusters to be told by tech line that they should have done all 4.








My motor has been dropped twice... I"m about ready to call the BAR and file a complaint. 
Then they had a bunch of other stuff they had to replace.. sorry I'm not techy and don't know what they were, my husband does. My car is covered under CPO warranty so no $$ out of my pocket just a pain in my ass. I've been having to carpool with the hubby in the harlequin golf... LOL. 
I'm pretty pissed that VW knows of this problem and doesn't do a recall. I'm all for a class action. I'm loyal to VW but now is the time for them to return the loyatly. 
Passat W8 owners UNITE!!! 
Missi


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## Miss W8 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (Miss W8)*

Update - VWofAmerica is sending a tech to my local dealership on Friday to see if he can "help" the local tech figure out what the problem is....








Can you believe it? Still don't have an ETA on getting my car back. So far it's been 31 days...


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (Miss W8)*

If it shake with no code the Balance shaft belt slips a tooth and it feels like you lost a few cylinders. My slipped right after the cam adjuster service. So i was terrified. 
After taking it back and them going Uh I never saw that before what could be wrong?.? 
But did it my self in a few hours. 
I hit the books and found that tiny belt keeps the entire engine in balance, no service bulletin no recommended service , nothing at Vw addresses this belt at all. Totally fu by voa to not list a service interval on a tiny little rubber belt, A total 200 with tension pully and cover in parts...
Say "Balance Shaft belt under the Crankshaft pully?"







Just to see if they even know what it is...


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## 71DubBugBug (Dec 3, 2006)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (Miss W8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miss W8* »_Update - VWofAmerica is sending a tech to my local dealership on Friday to see if he can "help" the local tech figure out what the problem is....








Can you believe it? Still don't have an ETA on getting my car back. So far it's been 31 days... 

did he figure anything out?


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

Redesigned Cam Adjuster????
I keep hearing references of VW's replacement cam adjusters for the W8 having a redesign to stop all the failures...NOT!!
Read how many people are on their second set of adjusters. My car was brought in for the adjusters for the 2nd time and now it has a NEW engine. 
VWoA sent a tech down twice for this last cam adjuster replacement and I got to speak with him. He told me that there is no difference between the replacement adjuster and the original. The problem is not with the adjuster. The problem is the motor. The screen in the adjuster fails because it gets clogged with metal fines from the engine. The oil pressure from the engine is enough to blow a hole through the adjuster and then there is a large mass of metal fines and metal screen particals that get lodged inside the came adjuster and causes it to fail. There is no fix. That's why there has been no recall. VW can not fix this problem. The only viable fix would be to replace the entire engine with something equivelent and there isn't anything close except the 3.2L V6 from the Audi.


_Modified by un4givun2 at 11:12 AM 12-7-2008_


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

My car went back at 74K with never having cam adjuster issues in my possession. Maybe more frequent oil changes and/or better quality oil. My car is in another owner's hands for 2 1/2 years now as far as I know. I changed my oil far more than the factory recommends and did NOT use Castrol Syntec. It's not a great oil. Let's be realistic, Castrol was simply the lowest bidder. I was and a still am not a believer in the first oil change being at 5,000 miles.
I created a big stink on passatworld when I changed my oil at 1300 miles. All the internet engineers condemned me and my engine to a life of doom. I checked the oil new and at 600 miles. At 600, it was 1 qt low. I topped it off and checked it again at 1200 miles. Oil level was fine so I changed it and sent the factory oil for analysis. I think I still have the pdf file they emailed me. That whizz-bang factory don't change for 5,000 mile crap was just that, CRAP. "Copper level HIGH. Oxidation HIGH" among others. "RECOMMENDATION: Change if not already changed and check at normal intervals"
I used Amp Oil 10W60 racing synthetic that a friend's shop was the sole importer of. I used that up to the 35,000 mile point when it became too expensive for him to continue importing. I changed it at: 1300, 4200, 9700, 15,500, 23,000 - the longest interval I ever went on any car. I sent that Amp Oil to the same lab for analysis to see if I was wasting my money: "Copper,oxidation normal. Sheer of 10W40. RECOMMENDATION: Check at normal interval", 29,000 and 35,000 when I switched to PentoSyn 5W40.
10,000 mile oil change intervals are B/S in any car. Thank the accountants & marketing departments for that..


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (VWGUY4EVER)*

600 miles on the first quart of oil on a brand new W8?







I have a brand new W8 and I just put 600 miles on it. The oil level has not changed.
I'm not sure I understood the point you were trying to make. I changed my oil every 3-4K and I used Mobile 1 full synthetic. No amount of expensive oil will fix a bad design.
I change my oil religiously and I use only premium synthetic oils every 3-4K.


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

I was speaking generally that the oil change intervals and quality oil they spec'd sucks. As for my consuming a quart of oil in the first 600 miles, I don't find it unacceptable for a new engine to consume oil. And leaving that crappy oil in for the first 5000 miles is a definate no-no in my book, particularly with the analysis that came back on it..


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (VWGUY4EVER)*

I agree that you should change he oil the first 500-1000 miles. As soon as mine gets out of the shop for 3 new fuel sending units I will change the oil. It will have about 650 miles on the new engine.
Eveyone has their own opinion on what is acceptable for oil burn off. If that car burned 1qt in 600 miles you would have had engine codes going off like the 4th of July. It just isn't possible. I have rebuilt several motors myself and if I had an engine that could not go 1500 miles on the 1st quart I would tear it down and do it over.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

I have (gasp) two w8's an 03 and a 04. 
Both from new. Both at 75K
Wifes car, almost zero issues, drives sane no drifting red lining or drag racing. Brakes, tires, set of plugs and filters that is all. 
used liqua moly 5-40 from day one in both, screw that castrol blend the dealers push. Both oil changes at 5k every time. 
Who broke a balance shaft belt. tensioner faults and multiple sets of brakes and tires. Me not her.
you drive hard, you need more service. end of story. Find a used w8 with a soft driver and you will see a few less problems. 
How many of you have changed the balance shaft belt.... it is a 40k service and after skipping a tooth will run poor. maybe even enough that a dealer will miss diagnose. 


_Modified by KubvanTurbo at 11:17 PM 12-11-2008_


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

from what i am reading here is W8 is avoid unless your brave.. is that really the case?
Considering one for a tow car for my racecar, but i need something i just drive, oil change and use.
Seems the fix is to simply replace the poor design component for the same poor design one. filter mesh and particle contamination etc if i get the gist of what people are saying.
why is'nt the oil filtration system picking these up or is it a case of the filters are too coarse for the problem particles? is a finer engine oil filter available?
Who would advise me to buy a W8?
or VR 4motion 2.8 motor instead.


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_I agree that you should change he oil the first 500-1000 miles. As soon as mine gets out of the shop for 3 new fuel sending units I will change the oil. It will have about 650 miles on the new engine.
Eveyone has their own opinion on what is acceptable for oil burn off. If that car burned 1qt in 600 miles you would have had engine codes going off like the 4th of July. It just isn't possible. I have rebuilt several motors myself and if I had an engine that could not go 1500 miles on the 1st quart I would tear it down and do it over.


I'm with you in some respect but it burned 1 quart at the first 600 miles then never another drop so I was fine with it.. I drove the car 100 mph the first night I got it, not bouncing off the rev limiter at each shifts, just a sedate roll up to 100 mph, which was only about 3600 rpms in 6th gear. After the first oil change, I drove it the way I drive every car...


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

I drive better/easier today than I ever have in my life. For the first time I have no tickets on my driving record. Yet, this W8 has been in the shop now 13 of the last 14 weeks. In the past 24 months it has been in the shop for 5 months. It has had the transmission and the engine replaced (not removed, repaired, or rebuilt.....But, REPLACED!).
This W8 is the most unreliable car I've ever owned in my entire life. Here's a list of cars I've owned since 1982 (in order from most reliable to least reliable):
1) 1993 Chevy Caprice (just sold it, 140K no repairs & 26 mpg)
2) 1976 Chevy Impala 220K (water pump, shocks)
3) 1995 Mistu Eclipse (wrecked at 80K, no repairs)
4) 1987 Dodge Shadow Turbo (200K, head gasket at 185K, struts & ball joints at 170K)
5) 1998 Honda Accord (currently own 110K, intake gasket, EGR valve, & ignition switch)
6) 2000 Dodge Dakota R/T (currently own 60K, upgraded brakes @ 10K, no other repairs)
7) 1994 Dodge Dakota (Lousy brakes!!, brake rebuild every 10K)
8) 1989 Ford Taurus, (lots of minor electrical repairs: light switches, window motors, widshield wiper motors, door locks, fuel pump, etc..)
9) 1992 Taurus SHO 120K (ECU, Coil Pack, Crank Sensor, Cam Shaft Sensor, Water Pump, Fuel Pump, & Alternator)
10) 1992 Dodge Dakota 4WD (totaled @ 80K, replaced transmission @ 44K, terrible brakes)
11) 1972 VW Beetle (where do you start? Worked on it every day. Everything replaced at least once.)
12) 2002 Passat W8, 77K, (currently own, replaced Alternator, Water Pump, Radiator Fan, Cam Adjusters, CV joint boots, Transmission, Engine, ECU, Gas Tank, All 3 Gas Gage sending units, emergency brake cable, timing chain, steering wheel electronic control unit, home link sun visor, carpet from massive water leak) (currently needs hood strut, new red LCD read out in the instrument panel)


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

Whining about a carpet from a water leak. no way... too funny
oh my your hood shock has failed. wow I would so not work on your car if you were at my shop. 
i have had over 100 cars in my life.. now have 18 personally, What do I drive everyday for the last 4 years, the W8. 
never even keep a car this long, that's how much I like it. I would never tow a race car with a passat ; thats not right... get a truck!
Read between the lines when you see a post about how the car has been in the shop forever and I'm a hostile customer and hate the car...
Now I want to flame it to everyone and kill the love and your resale value with my posts (even though I am moving on)
Wow
just wow


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

Maybe you should drive HARD like I did lol. My W8 bounced off the rev limiter many a time, saw many a top speed run, drove from north Jersey to Myrtle Beach, SC in 8hrs 45min - actual driving time *ALLEGEDLY*. Stopped for an hour for fuel and food at 1am. Other than the 3 items I listed previously, loved and still love the car. Replaced rear pads at 40K, plugs were clean at 40K when I replaced them. I wish I still had it. It's still not out of the realm of possibility for me to end up with another 6 speed in the near future...


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

.........And if your carpet had been wet for 3 years because the factory forgot to seal the floor pan to the firewall and the fire wall to the transmission tunnel you wouldn't be upset and demanding new carpet?
You must be one of those little sissy guys that everyone picks on.
Get over it SISSY! The W8 is a P.O.S. It was a great idea. It didn't work. Must be why they quit making it. 
Even the VW dealers advise people that have them to get rid of them. 
My Service Manager today asked me to not judge VW as a company based on the problems with the W8. I was blown away. 
However, I completely understand where he's coming from. I work for a company that has to sell what they design/build. I'm a Mechanical Engineer responsible for quality. If something as bad as the W8 got out the door to our customers they would fire me.


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## sicktertothemax (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

You people are RIDICULOUS!!!! Out of thousands of cars made some will be bad, parts can be made poorly. I'm looking at getting a w8 so I came to read up on the motor and all I see is 10 or so people complaining about how much it sucks. I'm not saying the motor isn't flawed but if you don't like it that much, ready here comes something no one seems to get, SELL IT! Out of all the people talking about the cam adjusters being replaced and having to deal with all this crap it seems that all of you still own the car so you must like something about it... 
To mister un4givun2 I think your service center just sucks... Just because they work there doesn't mean they are good at what they do... 
As for this VW tech that told you there was no difference between the parts... I call B.S. just because he is a tech does mean he knows everything. They don't make a new rev. of a part unless a change is made. As for oil pressure, vr's run high oil pressure and they don't blow their parts to pieces. As far as a recall goes, maybe the issue isn't as wide spread as you think it is or they would have. Car company's will do multiple recall of a part that has gone through a recall already. I had a Mountaineer and they did 3 or 4 recalls on the heater box with a new part design every time, and they recalled it because the problem was wide spread. Yes they will tell you to get a different car... because they sell cars!!!! Thats what they want people to do or maybe they are just tired of you complaining about this one... Every car has problems and some are worse that other and some cars are built poorly from the factory. If you don't like it that much SELL IT!


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*

Do you think anyone would buy this car after doing a CARFAX? THis car has had everything replaced except the suspension, seats and the paint. 
It was for sale 6 months prior to the factory warranty expiring. My wife and I knew we had to sell it before the warranty expired because there was no way we could afford to keep it running. It didn't sell. At that point, I was forced to buy a 48K/4year extended warranty for $5,000.00 or risk it breaking down with no coverage. That more or less married me to this car.








As for my VW Service Station "sucking", there's little I can do about it. They are the only game in town. It's not that small of a town @ 800,000 (over 1.5 million when you include the border towns), but there is only one VW dealer. That's what sucks! If they had some competition they might be compelled to do a better job.


_Modified by un4givun2 at 3:31 AM 12-15-2008_


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_ I would never tow a race car with a passat ; thats not right... get a truck!


why?
my previous audi s8 towed perfectly well.
truck is not what i want, car which can tow, be daily driven, practical for carrying race weekend stuff is all i want.
why would the passat be such a bad tow car then?


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_.........And if your carpet had been wet for 3 years because the factory forgot to seal the floor pan to the firewall and the fire wall to the transmission tunnel you wouldn't be upset and demanding new carpet?


lol my dealer got an 03 w8 6mt from the auction a month ago. It to had flooded floor in the front. But it was because the sunroof drain was clogged with beach sand


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## sicktertothemax (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_
As for my VW Service Station "sucking", there's little I can do about it. They are the only game in town. It's not that small of a town @ 800,000 (over 1.5 million when you include the border towns), but there is only one VW dealer._Modified by un4givun2 at 3:31 AM 12-15-2008_

Yea that is crappy. I have been denied service from the dealership back home on my corrado just on the basis that it was a corrado. They said "with how little where made the parts are expensive, and the age of the car the parts are worn and starting to break so if we go fix one thing but 4 other things break while we fix the first one we a liable to fix the other 4 so we just wont work on them" I'll give them 2 point for being honest and -1 for denying service on a vw.
I think you happen to get a car that was very poorly built and it sucks that happens but, it can and does happen with every car maker.
True point about the Carfax. All dealer service is listed on them, hence why I used it when looking into the w8 and my local dealership. Though I did buy a car once with a clean Carfax and the motor turned out to have a blown head gasket that the seller of the car clean up all evidence of so then I had to rebuild the motor and replace most of the coolant system. Carfax can't stop all dishonest people.
In your situation you did get stuck with the car.
Also sorry for calling you out in my rant, it was undeserved. 
I was exceptionally pissed of that day.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*

Noproblem man. I sensed something besides my W8 bashing was bothering you. If it did bother you I appologize. I know all these negative post have got to get on everyone's nerves. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
On the + side, this is the best car I've ever driven for traction, handling, performance, and ride. I don't think there is a better balanced car on the road. Any car that rides better than this car will handle worse. Any car that handles better than this car will definitely ride worse. I can't think of any car with a better traction control. There are many cars in it's class that will out accelerate it, but none of them will do it on wet payment, ice, or gravel. There are very few sacrifices you have to make to drive this car.
It's a crying shame VW won't step in and fix the problem with the engine. I've owned a VW of some kind ever since 1983. I've ridden in a VW all my life since my parents and grandparents all had VW's. This W8 may very well be my last VW if they don't do something.


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## sicktertothemax (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

It wasn't you w8 bashing (thought it is nice to hear the car has some good points) I was pissed of already and it fell on you. I've never bought a car from a dealership so I have never had to deal with there service so I might soon have the same complaints about them as you. Though the parts department back home did give me a discount on anything i bought.
The thing is vw has put w engine in other vehicles(or at least designed them) beside this car. Engines that where also used for much high hp (generating more heat and pressure) applications so you think they would be about to take care of this problem that people are having.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*

Retarded, the whole thread has gone retarded ..
Tow a race car with a car. Tarded
I'm a sissy W8 lover. Tarded
My dealer hates me and keeps my car too long. Tarded
Last I checked this was a VW Fan page. Not "I hate / pos / name calling" site.


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## sicktertothemax (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_Retarded, the whole thread has gone retarded ..
Tow a race car with a car. Tarded
I'm a sissy W8 lover. Tarded
My dealer hates me and keeps my car too long. Tarded
Last I checked this was a VW Fan page. Not "I hate / pos / name calling" site. 



why is it just about every thread you are in you talk like some know it all, i'm better than every one d-bag? none of that had anything to do with you so why involve yourself??


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*

Man, I changed my oil last night after an 800 mile break in. I took it out to test the new motor and it feels like it is up at least 40% on the HP. I can't remember this car ever running this good. I've owned it since 20K miles & now it has 77K. 
I even had a short street race with a Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. NO CONTEST!! 
Another victim of the WAGON.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*

At least i own 2 W8's and not a 85 Jetta
Why are you posting in W8?

_Quote, originally posted by *sicktertothemax* »_
why is it just about every thread you are in you talk like some know it all, i'm better than every one d-bag? none of that had anything to do with you so why involve yourself??


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*

You want to buy a W8, eh?
Why don't you buy mine? It's for sale (and been for sale) on this website! It's been for sale on many lists--no takers. It's been almost 4 months and no takers.
Put your money where your mouth is and buy my W8!!!
If you really like this car and want to buy one, here is one for you--BUY IT!!
BUY MINE!!!


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_Retarded, the whole thread has gone retarded ..
Tow a race car with a car. Tarded



you must feel right at home.. retard that you clearly seem to be.
nothing constructive to add then I suggest you **** off
you sir seem a complete arse







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif








w4nker


_Modified by badger5 at 5:21 PM 12-16-2008_


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## sicktertothemax (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_At least i own 2 W8's and not a 85 Jetta


at least you own 2 w8's? well you still sound like your 5 says stuff like that.

_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_Last I checked this was a VW Fan page. Not "I hate / pos / name calling" site. 

well i think we can add to the list of what the site isn't, an elitist game of who was the biggest junk. though you do seem to think it is...


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_Retarded, the whole thread has gone retarded ..
Tow a race car with a car. Tarded
I'm a sissy W8 lover. Tarded
My dealer hates me and keeps my car too long. Tarded
Last I checked this was a VW Fan page. Not "I hate / pos / name calling" site. 



usually i don't nitpick but... nice job trying to make a point and contradicting it in the same statement. 



_Modified by sicktertothemax at 9:31 AM 12-16-2008_


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*

eat me
Your from fort collins and just a one more internet crybaby
One more local vw dork... Why I dropped vw from my company and never been better.. It not the car I cant stand, Its the owners like you.


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## sicktertothemax (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_eat me
Your from fort collins and just a one more internet crybaby
One more local vw dork... Why I dropped vw from my company and never been better.. It not the car I cant stand, Its the owners like you.

i have never meet one person from boulder that wasn't pretentious and your no exception. Don't lump me in with the rest of the colorado scene. i'm not from here i and i think the owners here blow... if i hear one more a hole here talk about his stage3 1.8t that he did no work on and then tries to tell me my diesel has a vagcom and "efi"... i'll sell too. i dislike most of the people in the scene because they act like you. 
as for internet crybaby... couldn't be farther from the truth this is the one and only time (probably last) i have ever got into some dumb internet argument and it only because you had to put your 2 cent in on something that didn't involve you...


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

Below is a quote/report from Edmunds.com on the W8 Passat:
http://www.edmunds.com/volkswa....html
*Apparently, almost every W8 suffers from a cam adjuster problem that costs approx $10K, and takes a month, to fix. The part has a design flaw, which VW of America has fixed, but they will not offer any warranty help, or support their dealers, who often can't fix these cars.Between the cost of the parts and the constant problems, a W8 cost more than a Porsche to run. Not a car for real world applications.*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This annalysis comes from an outsider who's job is to do nothing but to criticize/praise cars and the manufacturers that build them.
Here is what Mr. Ed says should be done:
*Suggested Improvements:
Recall, engine swap, free extended warranty, loaner cars, something to help those who have invested in this product and are now stuck with it.*
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here's an even more interesting web site to check out: 
http://boardreader.com/tp/W8.html
It gives statistical data on topics such as VW W8. According to BoardReader.com the topic "W8" was discussed 15,078 times on 977 sites in last 3 months.








Say what you want about anybody on this site blowing up over the problems they have experienced with this W8. All it's going to get you is more arguments. But Hey! If that's what you like I'm game. That means I can be nice to everyone else on this forum.










_Modified by un4givun2 at 7:28 PM 12-16-2008_


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (sicktertothemax)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sicktertothemax* »_
Don't lump me in with the rest of the colorado scene. i'm not from here i and i think the owners here blow... .

I all ready have. maybe you missed it on the last post. 
I have two W8's and you have. none.. 
got anymore? your just like the rest of the colorado stalking dub clan. 
Good luck with that. 








A quick search of your post proves it. 20 something colorado noob. who has no reason to be in the W8 forum what so ever.
At this point we have 150,000 miles on our two W8's and They are awesome cars. Just as long as you can afford them when they need service.


_Modified by KubvanTurbo at 11:51 PM 12-16-2008_


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## alaskadub (Feb 8, 2008)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

You're right. If you have loads of extra money the W8 is not just fantastic, but extraordinary. If you are an average citizens who expects reliability alongside performance then roll the dice and try an S4, A6, A3 Audi or similar. Cost to fix still very high, but reliability less flawed (hopefully)
In the end though, my W8 was hands down this is the best car I have ever had the pleasure of driving in the snow. And I live in snow country. Nothing better then smoking someone off the line in a wagon with a car seat either. Nothing, I mean nothing, got a better jump then that W8 on ice. That said, tho-
I expect a torque converter to last more than 28 thousand miles (mine failed under warranty fortunately) and a cam adjuster to last more than 52 thousand miles. A ten thousand dollar engine fix is just so absolutely insane that its not even worth arguing about. Its a known problem that VWOA is literally pretending that they don't know it exists. If you guys want to be collectively pissed at someone - right your next rant to them.
I hope your luck holds out and that, if you need to, you keep saving spare change and steeling from the college kids fund to pay for the upcoming cam adjuster. The writing is on the wall. My car was impeccably maintained but in the end got burned anyway. Enjoy it, good luck, be happy that Edmunds has caught on to the problem because now that it is becoming undeniable maybe VWOA will have to do something. Oh yeah, and bashing people who got burned by their favorite car is just ignorant. Chances are you will be in the same boat sooner or later.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (alaskadub)*

Well said, alaskadub. 
As detuned as the 4.0L 8cly is there's no reason it shouldn't go 200,000 miles before any major mechanical problem occurs. 
Anyone who hasn't had a cam adjuster problem is blessed.
For 10K there is almost no engine you can't buy brand new. Even the VR6 can be bought brand new for under $5K. $6 or $7K would be way too much to pay for an engine that only makes 270HP and gets 20mpg. This engine retails for more than $20,000.00!!!! That's NASCAR territory!


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

well normal v8 power is what i shall be returning to. Audi S8 4.2 which in my experience have been extremely reliable to the 173k miles when i stupidly sold it on.
W8 looked appealing, but everything i hear says "walk away", aside from the cobble man with 2 of them.. lol enjoy them.
hope they bring you everything you wish for.


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## alaskadub (Feb 8, 2008)

*Re: (badger5)*

Its not to say that other motors don't have cam adjuster failures too (they do). Its just not a 7,000 to 10,000 dollar labor event when they fail on other models like an A4, a Dodge or whatever. Good decision making, by the way. Still not sure if there is a http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif real problem here? Do a W8 search on Auto trader and you will be surprised at all of the 'great deals' that are being offered on low mileage, well cared for W8s. Its a shame - really. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## sicktertothemax (Aug 29, 2008)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubvanTurbo* »_
A quick search of your post proves it. 20 something colorado noob. who has no reason to be in the W8 forum what so ever.
_Modified by KubvanTurbo at 11:51 PM 12-16-2008_

Post count? here is a phrase for you, name change...
my reason for being the the w8 forum. research on the motor to deside if i was going to buy one...
"20 something colorado noob" haha funny, but not even close... i hope by the time i'm 43, i'm doing something better than e-thugin on vortex... good luck with that.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

Remember the reply on 12-12-08 where you said you were moving on?
*Obviously, you lied..............*
Why are you so concerned about the value of your 2 P.O.S. W8's in the first place? You love them so much! Why would you ever consider selling them?










_Modified by un4givun2 at 8:28 PM 12-18-2008_


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (Vegeta Gti)*

Being a special limited production model is no excuse for poor quality and bad design. The W8 was supposed to take VW to the next level.

To accept this total flop of a car (W8) and write it off as a typical high performance low production number car is B.S. 
If Ford can put an engine in the Taurus that was meant to go in a 2 seater sports car and make it reliable and blow the doors off Cameros and Mustangs then surely VW can purposely design a real car like the W8 and make it reliable.



_Modified by un4givun2 at 8:26 PM 12-18-2008_


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## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

Let's keep this on topic, please...


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## jagerbombvr6 (Jul 22, 2008)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

so w8's are crap boxs then all you guys are saying... im on like my 10th vr and iv never had a major issue besides trannys. so you cant talk down all vw's. do you guys really think vwoa is unaware of these problems with the w8. trust me i bet it wasn't a mistake they stopped selling them b4 any of these issues arouse...


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## rickmdjetta16v (Nov 12, 2001)

*Re: (badger5)*

you will need a tow vehicle for the w8, not the other way around. b5 passats other than v6 are to be avoided by non-masochists, what other car has routine catastrophic engine failures even with routine oil changes? 2wd manual trans v6 is the way to go, and even then you'll still have to deal with water leaks, abs modules, cv joints, and a cost of around $1200 to do your t-belt. this is the lesser of 4 evils. btw: to the w8 guru guy, what's the secret to getting the chain timing correct? I did chains and adjusters on one and it misfired and threw allocation faults. I tore it back apart and got all 8 marks to line up, turned it over and over and couldn't find a problem, cams indexed correctly, etc. vw ended up sending me a new engine instead so I never figured out what went wrong.


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## KubvanTurbo (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (rickmdjetta16v)*

two wheel drive, v6 
haha
haha
take that to ski and you'll never get there in time.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (rickmdjetta16v)*

That's the same thing the VW dealership here did to me. They had the engine out 3 times for cam adjuster replacement. The last 2 times they had a VW tech flown in to check everything. Each time they reistalled it and fired it up it threw a different cam timing code. After all of that and 8 weeks in the shop they suddenly found excess metal in the oil and said the engine need replacing. They put a used engine that had 30K fewer miles on it than mine. I argued with them to put the new adjusters on that engine before installing it. They refused to do it. My argument was that this engine would suffer the same problem withing the next year if not sooner. I even told them it might not make it out of their shop. They put that used engine in and it threw a code for the cam adjusters the first time they fired it up. I had to pay almost $5,000.00 over what my extended warranty would pay so I could get a brand new engine. The entire event took over 12 weeks and over $22,000.00.


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## MattW8 (Jul 9, 2008)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (VWTECHBOB$)*

VWTECHBOB$
Do you have a number for the shop you have in San Jose, I'm looking for an independent shop to work on my W8.

Matt


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## cew8gti (Mar 21, 2009)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (MattW8)*

Hello all, It took me awhile but I'm finally jumping in on this conversation... been watching from afar for months w/ great interest. Here's the deal: I've owned my '04 W8 6-spd since April '08 (10 months); bought it w/ 32K and just hit 50K. God I love this car! But it scares the hell out of me. It was pretty much cherry when I bought it... and it's still almost like new. Seemed like the two previous owners must have barely driven it much in 4 yrs? 10 days after I bought it a fan switch failed and it overheated in traffic. The used car dealer covered the $1500 repair but had it over a week (they didn't blink an eye when I called that the car just broke down w/ an overheating problem... hmmm?). Then I had a couple mechanics (including a former certified VW tech who was now running a hi-tech tuner shop) tell me that they really weren't interested in getting involved with the service of my W8... hmmm? This all caused me to start looking for sites & topics like this... and stress out. I have an aftermarket warranty that I've used a couple times for other problems like a new radiator, etc a month ago w/ fair results (cost me $170 deductible & co-pay but it saved me over $600) but I don't know how well it would protect me if I catch the dreaded Cam Adjuster bug. That is IF I catch it before I sell it. Simply can't afford an $8K fix, period. God I love driving this car!
I have several questions: are there any warning signs? Steps besides more frequent oil changes that can prevent? I've changed oil every 7K but I guess I may switch from Castrol to something better. Does the cam adjuster failure happen more frequently in either the auto or stick? Is there anyone out there that has high miles on a W8 and never had this problem or is it simply a FACT that it WILL happen to all... and will it, sooner or later, actually happen again after it has been repaired/replaced? Can I tell you how much enjoy driving this car... when its running well!
Thanks for any advice.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (cew8gti)*

I know what you mean. I like driving this car too much. When I think about the $34,000.00 I've spent in 2 years to keep it running it sends chills down my spine. I'm actually out about $12,000.00 in out of pocket expenses. 
One problem I have, that no one else seams to have, is the tires/wheels. This car is very heavy for it's size. The tires are maxed out for the load rating. There's no fix for this because bigger wheels and tires won't clear the suspension components and/or the fenders.


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## BPhillipsGLI (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (cew8gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cew8gti* »_Hello all, It took me awhile but I'm finally jumping in on this conversation... been watching from afar for months w/ great interest. Here's the deal: I've owned my '04 W8 6-spd since April '08 (10 months); bought it w/ 32K and just hit 50K. God I love this car! But it scares the hell out of me. It was pretty much cherry when I bought it... and it's still almost like new. Seemed like the two previous owners must have barely driven it much in 4 yrs? 10 days after I bought it a fan switch failed and it overheated in traffic. The used car dealer covered the $1500 repair but had it over a week (they didn't blink an eye when I called that the car just broke down w/ an overheating problem... hmmm?). Then I had a couple mechanics (including a former certified VW tech who was now running a hi-tech tuner shop) tell me that they really weren't interested in getting involved with the service of my W8... hmmm? This all caused me to start looking for sites & topics like this... and stress out. I have an aftermarket warranty that I've used a couple times for other problems like a new radiator, etc a month ago w/ fair results (cost me $170 deductible & co-pay but it saved me over $600) but I don't know how well it would protect me if I catch the dreaded Cam Adjuster bug. That is IF I catch it before I sell it. Simply can't afford an $8K fix, period. God I love driving this car!
I have several questions: are there any warning signs? Steps besides more frequent oil changes that can prevent? I've changed oil every 7K but I guess I may switch from Castrol to something better. Does the cam adjuster failure happen more frequently in either the auto or stick? Is there anyone out there that has high miles on a W8 and never had this problem or is it simply a FACT that it WILL happen to all... and will it, sooner or later, actually happen again after it has been repaired/replaced? Can I tell you how much enjoy driving this car... when its running well!
Thanks for any advice.


7K is too long an interval for oil changes. You should be changing your oil every 5k max. I usually change my oil every 3k as I drive my car very hard. Even with regular oil changes at the correct intervals there's still no guarentee since the update to this particular problem came out after these cars were released.


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## SeanIzen (Oct 27, 2008)

So has anyone started some sort of lawsuit yet? I read the 1st two pages and this is defiantly recall material. And the only was to get a recall is to make them do something about it...


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## BPhillipsGLI (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: (SeanIzen)*

From everything I've read about people dealing with this problem is that VWOA hasn't been the greatest to deal with. From one of the earlier threads, I remember a guy having this problem while under warranty and instead of them fixing the problem they replaced his engine with a used engine that hadn't gotten the update. So basically, he'd end up having the same problem down the road!







The best thing that anyone can do if you want this car is to buy and extended warranty. I understand that warrenty issues have happened but I always say, "better safe than sorry." If you have an extended warrenty than at least you have some means of getting some type of help even if it isn't from VW themselves. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RatCityBowlers (Mar 17, 2009)

LOL. WHat is wrong with you people. Lawsuit? Really? Have none of you ever owned a car? Look i know your all pissed but if your car is out of warranty it is out of warranty. deal with it. You spent 45,000 dollars on a car with an engine that was put in the phaeton a 100,000 dolalr car. None of you got an extended warranty? Look I'm a vw tech and am currently looking at buying a W8. It had the t converter and cam adjusters at 30,000 miles. It only came in for the adjusters and VWoA which you all are bitching about told our tech to replace the converter while he was in there for free under warranty. VW takes care of you while your under warranty better then any other company out there. But you all want to sue? Heres a word of advice that some of youmay not know. You can still buy extended warranties after you have purchased a car. You can also buy them from credit unions/banks for a great deal less money. I do feel bad for you because i know it's expensive. But come on, you really want to blame vw? Also jsut to answer any questions about why they didn't replace the cam adjusters at the same time as the torque converter is because its only like 6 hours for the torque converter or something but 20+ for the cam adjusters. Most good techs if they do the cam adjusters let the customer know about the torque converter at that time since the trannys out as well as the engine. I hope everyone understands im not making fun of you, i just find it frustrating that everyone thinks vw should pay for all of this when the cars are out of warranty. Vw doesn't have to have recalls if its not a safety issue, but they have a lot of recalls on all of there cars because they like repeat buisness. But why would they want to have more recalls on vehicle that are limited like the w8 motor, or phaeton, or specialty vehicles like the beetle when everyone who owns those vehicles typically only bought the car for status or cuz it was cute and then swears off vw because of 1 issue. I love vw but they have some issues. But think you could be driving a chevy. Besides go drive a rabbit, or jetta, or gli, gti, or any of there new vehicles that are not special in some way and tell me what you think. MKV's are pretty much bullet prove because of what they have learned from beetle owners and w8 owners. So if your still mad though take a look at extended warranties. You might be able to pay just 1000 dollars and get everything fixed.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (RatCityBowlers)*

Don't fall for the extended warranty trap! VW sold me a 4-year-48K mile extended warranty in April 2008 for $4,800.00. It covered all components. In Nov. 2008 the engine had to be replaced. They could not exceed the Blue Book value on the car for the repairs. This engine is so expensive that there are no W8's on the road today that are worth more than the engine cost. Strange isn't it? The engine cost more than the car.
They valued my car $5K less than the engine cost. I had to pay the difference. So in a period of 7 months I shelled out over $9,600.00. Now that car isn't even worth $9,600.00. 
If you already own this car research the extended warranty carefully before buying. The one VW tries to sell you won't cover the full cost of the engine. If you're thinking of buying this car, RUN!.


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## JCON (Dec 22, 2007)

dstathos, What was your associated engien code and what was the original problem?


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## ibtango (May 26, 2009)

*Re: (JCON) -- could use some help.*

All,
Bought my 03 W8 about 2 months ago, 1 previous owner with 29,000 on it. Everything checked out. 
Last week it started to idle funny. Took it to the dealership and my estimated repair is $8,000. High cost of repair due to the parts for the adjusters I need to replace and the 35 hrs labor.
I am now feverishly looking on the net for help. I love my car and want it back, but not with that price tag.
1. Is it worth getting additional estimates from non-certified repair shops?
2. Do they really have to take the whole engine apart (35 hours labor) to repair the cam shaft adjusters? 
3. Seems like there has been some success taking this up with VWoA. Any suggestions on who to contact or where to start with that.
Signed,
Want my w8 back ::sigh::


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## rickmdjetta16v (Nov 12, 2001)

*Re: (JCON) -- could use some help. (ibtango)*

I don't get it, $8k seems low for the total, and 35 is high for the labor, very high. I did one recently that was under an extended warranty and the labor time was 22 for r+r adjusters. The parts total for this job ended up around $5k plus, and labor would have been around $2200, so with tax and misc. there's your $8k. The parts needed are both adjusters, all 4 chain gears, 5 stretch bolts, a few guides rails and chain tensioner dampers if you want to really do it right, and a tensioner bolt. Not to mention a lot of misc gaskets, fluids, etc. If this shop is estimating all the stuff you really need, and quoting you 35 hrs, the total would be more than they're saying, especially since any shop will add a lot of padding to an estimate this big since there will be broken parts, etc. There are no labor shortcuts, and I wouldn't bother with most independent shops unless their rep is amazing, hell most dealer techs would f this up. VWoa would maybe help if you were the original owner or if you had just gone out of powertrain warranty a few days/weeks ago but it's probably a no go, though it wouldn't hurt to try. 
You could just tow the car home, go and buy a good aftermarket warranty life the top of the line fidelity one, then wait a while and tow the car to a dealer and say that it just started happening out of nowhere, then fidelity covers it. You do not want to own this car without an aftermarket warranty anyway, so this may be your only hope.


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## ibtango (May 26, 2009)

*Re: (rickmdjetta16v)*

Thanks rickmdjetta16v! Thats a good start. My parts list was more or less as follows:
4x Adjuster @ $571.23 ea
2x Timing Case @ $1775.65 total
6x Gasket @ $177.89 total
1 bolt, 12 washers, 1 seal, sealant (obviously a few things left out here)
35 hours labor @$103/hr
***Anyone have any comps on parts/labor?
***Any idea whether or not I'll have any issues getting an aftermarket warrenty now that the car has already been into the dealership? or how much that would run me?
***Also, so the following post on pg 1. 
"VWoA sent a tech down twice for this last cam adjuster replacement and I got to speak with him. He told me that there is no difference between the replacement adjuster and the original. The problem is not with the adjuster. The problem is the motor. The screen in the adjuster fails because it gets clogged with metal fines from the engine. The oil pressure from the engine is enough to blow a hole through the adjuster and then there is a large mass of metal fines and metal screen particals that get lodged inside the came adjuster and causes it to fail. There is no fix. That's why there has been no recall. VW can not fix this problem. The only viable fix would be to replace the entire engine with something equivelent and there isn't anything close except the 3.2L V6 from the Audi."
***Any idea if ther is any maintenance that can ensure I won't be replacing the adjusters again? Any one else get the same back from VW/Audi? (will definitely be calling them ASAP)
***I can't beleive this happened at 32,000 mi. Any idea how long I could expect the repair to last if done right?
***If anyone has any pictures from the repair that would be most helpful, some from pg 1, but wondering if there are any before and afters or any suggestions on the best way to tackle this problem. (brother's a mechanic and is trying to help me out on this one).
***The way I see it I have 4 options:
1. warranty the car and try and get a repair covered afterwards.
2. fix the car and hope the dealership warranty holds.
3. fix the car and go and get a warranty afterwards.
4. fix the car and pray to god something else doesn't go wrong.
So we are still talking $8k+
~Hoping to continue loving my W8.


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## ibtango (May 26, 2009)

*Re: found something interesting... possible FREE fix to CAM ADJ???*

found something really intersting in my quest for answers RE cam shaft adjuster repair...
http://www.w8forum.dk/forum_po...r-fix
anyone wanna take a stab at debunking this one? think i'm gonna give it a shot regardless.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (cew8gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cew8gti* »_Hello all, It took me awhile but I'm finally jumping in on this conversation... been watching from afar for months w/ great interest. Here's the deal: I've owned my '04 W8 6-spd since April '08 (10 months); bought it w/ 32K and just hit 50K. God I love this car! But it scares the hell out of me. It was pretty much cherry when I bought it... and it's still almost like new. Seemed like the two previous owners must have barely driven it much in 4 yrs? 10 days after I bought it a fan switch failed and it overheated in traffic. The used car dealer covered the $1500 repair but had it over a week (they didn't blink an eye when I called that the car just broke down w/ an overheating problem... hmmm?). Then I had a couple mechanics (including a former certified VW tech who was now running a hi-tech tuner shop) tell me that they really weren't interested in getting involved with the service of my W8... hmmm? This all caused me to start looking for sites & topics like this... and stress out. I have an aftermarket warranty that I've used a couple times for other problems like a new radiator, etc a month ago w/ fair results (cost me $170 deductible & co-pay but it saved me over $600) but I don't know how well it would protect me if I catch the dreaded Cam Adjuster bug. That is IF I catch it before I sell it. Simply can't afford an $8K fix, period. God I love driving this car!
I have several questions: are there any warning signs? Steps besides more frequent oil changes that can prevent? I've changed oil every 7K but I guess I may switch from Castrol to something better. Does the cam adjuster failure happen more frequently in either the auto or stick? Is there anyone out there that has high miles on a W8 and never had this problem or is it simply a FACT that it WILL happen to all... and will it, sooner or later, actually happen again after it has been repaired/replaced? Can I tell you how much enjoy driving this car... when its running well!
Thanks for any advice.


I have yet to read about a single 6MT W8 with a cam adjuster repair. Why I don't know but all the problems I've seen so far are TIP cars. Also since you have a manual the TC will not be a problem for you either. I change the oil in my W8 between 4K and 5K miles and only use VW approved full synthetic oil.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: (JCON)*

My original engine code was for the torque converter. It wasn't until the converter was replaced and the dealer took it for a test drive that the cam adjuster code popped up.
My guess is that although these adjusters are designed bad, they actually don't fail until some kind of major work that forces the engine to be lowered (like a torque converter replacement).
I think that there are those W8 owners out there that haven't had this problem simply because the engine hasn't had any major work to it.
But I could be wrong... this is only my observation from my own car--not enough for it to be fact though.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: (ibtango)*

I believe VWofA engineers give different reasons for the cam adjuster problem.
The mechanic couldn't find any metal shavings of any kind in the engine during my cam adjuster replacement. There wasn't any blockage and everything seemed fine.
He guesses that in my case, not enough oil pressure simply seized the adjusters after 90K miles and it took the converter repair for the adjuster issue to finally surface.
I have a fried of mine that has a W8 with a 6 speed and he has yet to encounter this problem. But, he periodically has rough engine idle that returns to normal after 20-30 secs. Could that be an indication that the adjusters are failing? Maybe when he needs to change his clutch, this problem will rear its ugly head then?
Who knows? I'm not a mechanic or an automotive engineer. But, what I do know is two things:
* the engine is badly designed as a vehicle for everyday driving and low maintenance
* I"ve heard/read different stories from VWoA engineer as to the cause of the problem and its potential fix.
If you go to W8 Forums, you will find that someone realized that by using the VAG-COM unit, you can basically run a test to each adjuster that in effect "clobbers" any objects that may be clogging the channels for oil. I'd try that before any work is done.


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## BPhillipsGLI (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: (dstathos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dstathos* »_
I have a fried of mine that has a W8 with a 6 speed and he has yet to encounter this problem. But, he periodically has rough engine idle that returns to normal after 20-30 secs. Could that be an indication that the adjusters are failing? Maybe when he needs to change his clutch, this problem will rear its ugly head then?
Who knows? I'm not a mechanic or an automotive engineer. But, what I do know is two things:
* the engine is badly designed as a vehicle for everyday driving and low maintenance
* I"ve heard/read different stories from VWoA engineer as to the cause of the problem and its potential fix.
If you go to W8 Forums, you will find that someone realized that by using the VAG-COM unit, you can basically run a test to each adjuster that in effect "clobbers" any objects that may be clogging the channels for oil. I'd try that before any work is done.



My wagon started the rough idle symptom a couple of months ago, and I started to get really worried being that I had just purchased the car about 6 months ago. Since then I've ran one full cleaning cycle of Auto RX, and have started another cleaning cycle. You won't believe the amount of stuff you'll see come out of your engine in the oil. The stuff works amazing. During the first cycle I did have to replace the oil vent valve, separator, and vent hose. I think it's like $450 to have all that work done at the dealer if you don't have a warranty, but all I had to pay was my deductable. Since the replacement of those parts, and the first cleaning cycle I haven't had any rough idling at stop lights anymore or anything like that. I'm not saying that's cure for the problem by any means but it's helped me. 
If this doesn't work maybe I'll get the dealership to try the 12volt battery trick mentioned in the W8 forums.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: (BPhillipsGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BPhillipsGLI* »_If this doesn't work maybe I'll get the dealership to try the 12volt battery trick mentioned in the W8 forums.

My dealership already did it as a precaution using their own computer.


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## BlackJelli (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (B5Speedo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B5Speedo* »_
I have yet to read about a single 6MT W8 with a cam adjuster repair. Why I don't know but all the problems I've seen so far are TIP cars. 

my 6MT W8 produced a P011 code and had defective cam adjusters. i had them replaced Feb 08 as well as both downstream O2 sensors and clutch. all has been fine since. well, until the thermostat code i got two weeks ago...
(aka squish on W8 forum)


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## ibtango (May 26, 2009)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (BlackJelli)*

UPDATE: 
So after much fretting RE the $8000 repair looming for my CAM Shaft Adjusters +...
My brother ran some seafoam and then did an oil change. After that oil change he ran some high end synthetic w5-50 and PRESTO... engine light off. Ended up costing me about $200 + $350 I'm giving him for ingeniously helping me avoid a $8000 expense.
The problem is that when your W8 sits or only goes short distances gunk builds up in the screens/etc. (see the previous post where I posted the link to the W8 forum with the 12V/clean out trick) So the best thing is to ALWAYS let your car warm up and try not to drive it short distances without giving it some time to sit and cool down. I bought it from someone who obviously did this with only 30,000 on it in 5 years. AND ALWAYS change your oil w/ VW cert. every 2500-3000.
I'll let you know if it holds, but it doesn't idle when stopped and no more check engine light. Off to buy my extended warranty now.
p.s. side note on the electrical hardwire for your stereo. My volume/track control buttons on my steering wheel and my corresponding display on my dash went out. The dealership wanted $1500 to replace the wheel and the stereo. Turns out unplugging the battery fixed it.
Falling in love w/ my W8 all over again,









_Modified by ibtango at 1:12 PM 6-1-2009_


_Modified by ibtango at 1:13 PM 6-1-2009_


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (ibtango)*

**Not sure about the short/long trip theory. My car has always seen trips 15 miles or longer with commutes 25 minutes or longer. 
**As for the whole warming up theory........The VWoA tech told me that is was bad to let these engines sit and idle to warm up. He said that the oil pressure wasn't high enough at idle (especially on higher mileage W8's to make the cam adjusters work properly). 
My W8 has had 2 cam adjuster failures. The 1st happened @ around 33K and that was with 5k oil changes with mobile 1 5w40. The 2nd failure occurred like clock work at around 66K. I was changing my oil every 3-4K miles using more expensive oil and the proven zinc enhancer z-max every other oil change. It made no difference. 
I now have a brand new engine. I'm running real synthetic oil at $9.00/qt (not the wannabee synthetic like Mobil1). At 9,000 miles I have changed my oil 4 times already. At 8,000 miles I have metal in my oil in a *BRAND NEW *engine. VWoA refuses to stand behind their 12K mile warranty. I'm sending another oil sample out to a certified lab before the 12K is up so I can start a law suit.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (un4givun2)*



un4givun2VWoA refuses to stand behind their 12K mile warranty. I'm sending another oil sample out to a certified lab before the 12K is up so I can start a law suit.
[/QUOTE said:


> Good luck with the law suit and keep us posted. I'm sure their are other owners (US, CA, and UK) that would like to join and turn it into a class action suit.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (BlackJelli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlackJelli* »_
my 6MT W8 produced a P011 code and had defective cam adjusters. i had them replaced Feb 08 as well as both downstream O2 sensors and clutch. all has been fine since. well, until the thermostat code i got two weeks ago...
(aka squish on W8 forum)

Thanks for letting us know. You are now officially a myth buster.








I wonder if there are any more 6MTs?


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## seatowjoe (Aug 29, 2004)

Yes, there are. I have an '04 W8 6MT.


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: (seatowjoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *seatowjoe* »_Yes, there are. I have an '04 W8 6MT.

When did you have it done and how many miles were on the car when it was done?


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## Gumbyrock (Jul 12, 2009)

*Our (Cheap) Fix for W8 Camshaft problem!*

We have also gone through the dreaded W8 camshaft adjuster problem, and we have a potential cheap solution after having this car into two car repair facilities. The first shop had a couple of master mechanics, and the second repair shop was a large VW dealer.
Both repair facilities said that the fix was going to involve taking the engine (VW said the engine AND transmission together!) out and replacing the cam shaft position sensors. (Costs ran about $3k for labor, and $5-6k for parts). We did some lenghty searches on the internet (VW forums, etc.) and we found two alternative (cheap) fixes. One involved giving the W8 electro-shock therapy (http://www.w8forum.dk/forum_po...r-fix). The first master mechanic decided to try this after sympathizing with the crazy cost of having to remove an engine to replace a couple of sensors. This only had marginal success, and the car intermittently idled very rough (a sympton of the cam-shaft position sensor not working).
Next we went to the VW repair shop to get some recall repairs done, and also paid them another 65 bucks to run the codes on the engine, despite the fact that we already knew the problem -







. They were able to produce two codes - P0102 and P0113. These are related to a mass air flow sensor problem and a cam shaft positioning error. After telling them we were not interested in forking out $8-9,000 bucks to have the cam shaft sensors replaced - one employee passed on some very useful information. He said that another person he knew had the same problem, but simply continued to drive the car with the problem, and after a while the vibration problem "went away". We have learned from this VW forum that there is an "utra-fine" screen in the cam shaft sensor that is prone to decripitation, and gets into the cam shaft sensor (the sensor is apparently adjusted through oil pressure, and is supposedly a very reliable mechanism used on some long-standing german engines, regularly put into Audis). It can also get gummed-up with oil, and cease to function properly. The VW employee told us that continuing to drive a W8 with the cam adjuster problem will completely dislodge the screens from the cam adjuster mechanism, and bits of the screen will cycle through the oil and be removed with your next oil change.
There is also another entry on this forum that mentions one person was able to fix this problem by running "engine-purge" through his oil and cleaning out the oil system in the engine (this would also include the cam adjusters I would assume since they are regulated by oil pressure). Given the cost of this ($4.50 for the engine purge), we decided to try this before forking out $9,000 to the V-dub dealer).
We looked at the oil after doing the engine purge, and found lots of small metallic pieces that I assume were the filter (now completely blown-out). Upon starting the car, it ran like a charm and the engine warning light has gone out.
I think that this shows that the failure of the filter in the cam shaft adusters can be addressed with two possible solutions: 1) Most mechanics will tell you that you just have to suck it up and replace all f the cam shaft adjuster mechanisms for $9,000 - this is obviously going to fix the problem, by removing the filter parts along with the mechanism, but at great expense. 2) Given the fact that this problem seems to fixable by either drving the car for a while after it has broken, or simply cleaning out the engine of the old oil and gummed-up material, seems to indicate that simply "ceaning-up" the engine will fix the problem (total cost $120 bucks).
Any good Doctor will tell you that if you have a medical problem, the best way to approach the problem is to start with the least invasive method first. So try the following - it worked for us - and I hope it works for you!
1) Do the elctro shock therapy to work the gunk out of the clogged cam shaft adjuster solenoid.
2) Add 1 quart engine purge to the oil and run the engine for 5-10 minutes (don't drive it!). Drain the oil, and examine it for very fine metal shavings - if you see it, this is probably the filter screen.
3) Add some cheap oil and repeat the same processs with another quart of engine purge. Drain the oil.
4) Replace the oil filter and add some synthetic low viscosity oil - we used 0W-20 weight. We used this in order for the oil to get easily into the cam shaft adjuster mechanism and free it up.
5) Spend the $9,000 bucks on something you really want! - and also make sure you tell VW about your issues regarding this engine's flawed design.








This worked for us, and given the expense of the other option, you may want to consider it. Let others know if it works.....


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## B5Speedo (May 2, 2001)

*Re: Our (Cheap) Fix for W8 Camshaft problem! (Gumbyrock)*

Gumby,
I'm glad to hear your problem seems to be solved. I've never heard of engine purge before. Is this what you used from BG products?
http://www.bgprod.com/products/engineoil.html 
This product seems similar to Auto-Rx however, I'm really surprised it works in only 5-10 minutes. You instructions seem a little vague.
If you have to add a quart of the engine purge don;t you first have to remove a quart of oil from the engine?
When you say drain and add some cheap oil what do you mean? Dino or synthetic? What viscosity? Then do you just run the engine for 5-10 minutes and drain it again?
Is it only with the third oil replacement that you replace the oil filter? When you added the 0W20, what oil type and brand did you use? How long did you keep this in the engine before you went back to 5W40 full synthetic?
So in summary your added a quart of the engine purge two times or three?
How many miles have you gone since you did this treatment?
TIA
Tom


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## Gumbyrock (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Our (B5Speedo)*

We used generic engine flush from advance autoparts here in denver... The brand was gunk. We had enough room in the engine for the quart of gunk engine flush http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . If yours is full, I guess you should just let a quart out and replace it with engine flush. (We're sure the BG stuff is pretty much the same as the gunk). 
For us, the instructions on the bottle said to let the flush run through the car for 5 minutes (running, of course), it's probably best to follow whatever directions are printed on the bottle of BG.
After you run the flush through, drain your oil, and you'll probably see little metal flakes inside it. 
Then, fill your car with any type of oil, one quart short of full, it doesn't matter what kind as it will only be used for about 5 minutes. We used 5W-30 dino oil, just cheap stuff. Put the engine flush in, repeat the steps from before. Drain the oil once again, and do your best to fully purge the vehicle of oil, so all the metal pieces are gone.
After the second purging, replace your oil filter as well, just in case it has obstructions in it.
Once everything is back together, after changing your oil twice (and thereby flushing the engine twice), fill your car with the best quality oil you can find, we used mobil 0W-20 fully synthetic stuff.

Good luck, hope to see your W8 up and running properly!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
buy some beer with your spare bucks!!!


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: Our (Cheap) Fix for W8 Camshaft problem! (Gumbyrock)*

This is a very good post, but, you must remember one thing. These engines cannot take much pain.
My mechanic pretty much did all the things you mentioned to my car last year (except the solenoid exercise). I tried driving it to the "stuff pass", but, the only thing it did was ruin my plugs, harmed my injectors and the catalytic converter needed to be changed.
So, as good as a procedure this is, be very weary of any harmful effects.
Good luck!!


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## Gumbyrock (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

I couldn't agree more that these engines are very delicate and tempermental. Sounds to me like your mechanic added some fuel additive instead of oil flush







. Again, I'm not a mechanic but fuel additives radically change the chemistry of the fuel and are prone to burning out catalytic converters, oxygen sensors etc. since the fuel burns at much hotter temperatures than normal.
The oil purge has a residence time in your engine of 5-10 minutes, and doesn't get into the fuel system so it should not harm any of the fuel/exhaust system that you mentioned.
PS - if you want to replicate what we did, make sure you do the electro-shock therapy BEFORE the oil purge (two times), as this should clean out the camshaft solenoid, so any gunk that has been loosened can be removed in the oil changes.
By the way, this car had only 50,000 miles on it before the camshaft sensors went wonky....


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: (Gumbyrock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gumbyrock* »_I couldn't agree more that these engines are very delicate and tempermental. Sounds to me like your mechanic added some fuel additive instead of oil flush







. Again, I'm not a mechanic but fuel additives radically change the chemistry of the fuel and are prone to burning out catalytic converters, oxygen sensors etc. since the fuel burns at much hotter temperatures than normal.
The oil purge has a residence time in your engine of 5-10 minutes, and doesn't get into the fuel system so it should not harm any of the fuel/exhaust system that you mentioned.
PS - if you want to replicate what we did, make sure you do the electro-shock therapy BEFORE the oil purge (two times), as this should clean out the camshaft solenoid, so any gunk that has been loosened can be removed in the oil changes.
By the way, this car had only 50,000 miles on it before the camshaft sensors went wonky....

Actually, the reason why everything got fouled up was because during the time my car was in that condition (spuddering, spewing out smoke), all the components downstream were covered in exhaust with half-ignited gas causing them to either malfunction and/or completely breakdown. In certain cases, they were able to "clean up", but, in others (like the catalytic converter), I was SOL--luckily, they changed it for free (as well as my plugs and wires).


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: (RatCityBowlers)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RatCityBowlers* »_LOL. WHat is wrong with you people. Lawsuit? Really? Have none of you ever owned a car? Look i know your all pissed but if your car is out of warranty it is out of warranty. deal with it. You spent 45,000 dollars on a car with an engine that was put in the phaeton a 100,000 dolalr car. None of you got an extended warranty? Look I'm a vw tech and am currently looking at buying a W8. It had the t converter and cam adjusters at 30,000 miles. It only came in for the adjusters and VWoA which you all are bitching about told our tech to replace the converter while he was in there for free under warranty. VW takes care of you while your under warranty better then any other company out there. But you all want to sue? Heres a word of advice that some of youmay not know. You can still buy extended warranties after you have purchased a car. You can also buy them from credit unions/banks for a great deal less money. I do feel bad for you because i know it's expensive. But come on, you really want to blame vw? Also jsut to answer any questions about why they didn't replace the cam adjusters at the same time as the torque converter is because its only like 6 hours for the torque converter or something but 20+ for the cam adjusters. Most good techs if they do the cam adjusters let the customer know about the torque converter at that time since the trannys out as well as the engine. I hope everyone understands im not making fun of you, i just find it frustrating that everyone thinks vw should pay for all of this when the cars are out of warranty. Vw doesn't have to have recalls if its not a safety issue, but they have a lot of recalls on all of there cars because they like repeat buisness. But why would they want to have more recalls on vehicle that are limited like the w8 motor, or phaeton, or specialty vehicles like the beetle when everyone who owns those vehicles typically only bought the car for status or cuz it was cute and then swears off vw because of 1 issue. I love vw but they have some issues. But think you could be driving a chevy. Besides go drive a rabbit, or jetta, or gli, gti, or any of there new vehicles that are not special in some way and tell me what you think. MKV's are pretty much bullet prove because of what they have learned from beetle owners and w8 owners. So if your still mad though take a look at extended warranties. You might be able to pay just 1000 dollars and get everything fixed.

Ughh...







I really dislike these posts.
I've seen these posts in every W8 forum: "VW mechanic/techy" responds to griping W8 owners with cavalier statements that don't necessary solve their problem--only inflate their situation. They even want to buy one. 
In fact, VW did create a lemon and deserves to be sued as they KNEW that this is a problem. Why would they have dropped it from the lineup so soon after it came out? Why would they have paid for parts and services for my cam adjusters and services for TC?
Any car that is manufactured these days for the masses (i.e. not the Bugatti consumer) and cost $40K brand new should be expected to drive without major issue for 100K miles--without an additional charge of an extended warranty. We've been in this business too long to have done otherwise.
Capitalism not only exists in the consumer product space, it also extends itself in the litigation industry. It's what prevents products like a W8 from ever appearing again--lol... So, sue away!!
To all VW mechanics who want a W8: Want mine? Take it! It's been for sale for almost a year, yet, I never get any responses from you with interest.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (dstathos)*

Dstathos,
Lemon is an understatement. I've been driving for nearly 30 years and I never put less than 30K a year on any daily driver except this W8. I've owned this car for 4 years now and I can't rack more than 20K/year. That's because it won't run long enough to accumalate more than 20K/year. I've replaced almost everything on this car and it has 88K on it. 
List of replaced items:
1) Fuel Tank
2) All 3 fuel level sending units
3) Instrument cluster
4) Electronic control module for the steering wheel mounted controls
5) Home Link Sun Visor
6) Rewelded and resealed the floor pan-to-fire wall welds and seam sealer
7) Drain tubes for the sun roof
8) Chrome Roof Rails replaced because chrome was flaking off (3 years)
9) Cam Adjusters at 3?,000
10 Cam adjusters again at 76,000
11) New engine at 79K
12) New radiator Fan at 76K
13) New Alternator at 76K
14) New Transmission at 49K
15) New outer front axle boots at 40K
16) New inner front axle boots at 55K
17) New heat shields for exhaust (recall)
18) New left rear emergency brake cable
19) New main alternater wiring harness at 84K
List of items car needs today to be 95%:
1) New front axles (left front inner CV joint going out)
2) New control arms upper and lower (car wanders and makes popping noises and won't hold alignment) Found excess play in all 4 lower ball joints. Since most A4's never have issues with the front end I assume this is relative to the extra weight of the W8 engine on basically a 4 cylinder front end.
3) New coil overs front and rear (car won't hold the road anymore when braking over imperfections or washboard surfaces) Makes distinct clunking noises on the right front when hitting minor imperfections in the road at low speeds. Car noise dives very badly and vise versa on acceleration.

I've already spent well over $25,000.00 in the last 2 years on the drive train and electrical. Now I've got to spend another $2-3K on the suspension (that's if I do all the work myself). All new control arms and tie rods is $1,200.00 and all new KYB coil overs is another $1,400.00. 
On any other car of this caliber I would gladly drop $3K to update/refresh the suspension. But with this car you hang on to every last dime you have in case you need a new transmission or engine.


_Modified by un4givun2 at 6:23 PM 7-13-2009_


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## JCON (Dec 22, 2007)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

Exactly why I traded mine after owning for 2 months, cost and frequency of repairs is no where near my old 2.8 V6 Passat and I can't afford this costly beast, I thought my old Passat was bad, it's nothing compared to a W8


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## Fr3nZy (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

Wanna hear my sad sob story read this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4482708
I wonder if I can call VWoA and trick..err demand they fix their unreliable engine lol. Any W8 experts in the NYC wanna help an owner out with a possible rebuild







.
My friend bought a certified 2006 GLI from a dealership..had problems soon as he rolled out the lot. Engine constantly overheating/a few knocks from the gearbox. Luckily he's has warranty but 10+ visits for servicing the same problem and the best they can do is tell him 'maybe you don't know how to drive the car'







. com'on the car is a turbo, what is it there for. He's doesn’t dog or race the car but he drives it like a turbo is meant to be driven. Whirling away.
All these experiences makes me wanna turn tail and run away from German cars. Performance seems to be great but like reliability (and cost effectiveness) is not in there vocabulary. I think i wannt an A4










_Modified by Fr3nZy at 2:48 AM 7-20-2009_


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (Fr3nZy)*

What can you say? It's a total disregard for quality and service. When I first bought my VW I had no concerns about any of this. I was aware of VW's poor record for quality and service, but I knew the service manager at the VW dealership here in Memphis. I trusted him. Every repair he made to my car was done right. If a repair they made didn't fix the problem they kept going back until they did fix the problem at no extra charge. That was until May 2008. The service manager and 4 of his technicians quit and opened there own business. I asked him what happened (if anything) and he said it was getting too corrupt for him. He couldn't look his repeat customers, that he had known for years, in the eyes and smile while ripping them off. He had never done it and he refused to do it. He opened his own garage and he works mostly on German cars. I have not got a commitment from him yet, but I may have his testimony in court.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (KubvanTurbo)*

First of all, it was NOT a water leak. The carpet got wet/destroyed because the factory didn't weld or seal the panels together connecting the floor pan to the firewall. 
VWoA thought it was serious enough to weld the panels, reseal the seams, and replace the carpet free of charge. It was obviously a factory defect.
Either you know nothing about cars or quality or you're a certified VW Technician.








This is my 1st water leak in any car. I own 6 cars today (1967 VW, 2000 Dakota R/T, 1972 VW Beetle, 1998 Honda Accord, 2002 VW Passat W8, and a 1998 Diesel Dodge Ram). From 1986-2002 I've owned at least 1 new car every other year. More than once I've owned 2 new cars. As soon as the economy recovers a little I'm going to buy 2 more new cars (trading in the W8, HIP HIP HURRAY!. 
Wake Up Dude! The VW dealer here (and I assume all the others) documents these kinds of repairs. Anyone can go to CARFAX and see the laundry list of MAJOR repairs on my Passat including the $5,500.00 transmission, the $6,000.00 cam adjusters, and the $10,000.00 engine. 
Sorry if I lowered your resale value with the flaming post...BooHoo! 
I got news for you, I didn't lower your resale value. VW lowered your resale value the day they stopped the production of the W8 engine. They lowered your resale value when they made the conscious decision not to produce and stock any internal engine parts for your 4.0L. They lowered your resale value when they mated an 8cyl engine to a 6cyl transmission (hence all the transmission failures). Wake Up and smell the coffee dude. Your precious W8 is a P.O.S!


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## Gumbyrock (Jul 12, 2009)

*Update Camshaft Adjuster fix*

Update - since we did the oil purge, we have not had the engine camshafter warning come on for 5 months.







As an added note, I spoke with a reputable mechanic and he told me that he is doing one of these jobs every two weeks. He said something about not having to pull the entire engine, and that they replaced the seals around the camshaft adjuster and this fixes the problem - it only costs about 1,000 bucks for this job, but he said it is a very tight squeeze and they have to nudge the engine loose a bit. He is in Colorado, and if anyone wants his name I would be happy to furnish it if requested. (Denver).
He also said the camshaft error is caused by sludge - this would explain why the engine flush worked for us!!


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## GaW8owner (Nov 20, 2009)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (dstathos)*

OK, I’m sufficiently terrified.







Yesterday my beloved ‘03 W8 innocently shuddered slightly at idle and the engine light came on. I figured it was an ignition coil. I’ve already had two replaced, THEN got a recall notice, so I figured it was another one going I took it into a VW dealer and they said it yielded an ignition fault and a cam adjuster fault. They said they want to replace the ignition coil first and see if the cam fault clears.
After reading this thread, I’m scared to death and think my best course of action is to PRAY TO GOD that the cam fault clears and then sell it as fast as I can. I love this car – I’ve had it since new, for 6 years, and it still thrills me to just look at it much less climb in and drive it. But $10,000 cam repairs and $5,000 torque repairs are insane. 
What I want to know is, has anyone experienced a successful cam adjuster repair – one that lasted many thousands of miles?


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (GaW8owner)*

After 1 1/2 years and ~10K miles, my cam adjuster (and torque converter) have so far worked well (knock on wood--I don't want to jinx myself).
Reading plenty of info about this issue, it seems as though fixing this problem doesn't permanently fix it, but, it does give you a new "lease" on life. 
Mine was paid for even though I had no warranty on it for two reasons:
I was vigilant about bringing my VW at the proper maintenance schedules to VW dealerships only. Apparently, this worked in my favor as the dealership backed me up with VWoA. They had my records and were able to convince VWoA to use their own (and the dealership's) insurance coverage to fix it on their dime.
I made a good case against VW and for me as a consumer. I followed the maintenance schedules, only used VW dealerships like a good little VW owner, and expected a good car in return. I ensured that a lawsuit was in store and that further communications will be through my lawyer. For a $40K vehicle meant for the normal driver (i.e. not Bugatti [W12] or Lamborgini for that matter), I shouldn't have to worry about engine failure due to a known design flaw. This is purely a rip-off and any future business with me was truly in jeopardy.
Although the things mentioned above helped me, what truly was the tipping point for me was the dealership. I cannot stress how important that is. The service manager there at first was indifferent, but, he was open to my lobbying efforts and eventually turned to my side. As a result, not only do I have a new lease on life for my car, I am not only open to buying another VW (Passat CC looks good), I am open to buying at this dealership only.
Business is business. If you always make your case, your chances are better than zero for the outcome to go your way. If not, then you know you tried.


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## Museeuw (Sep 28, 2009)

Before anyone entertains a $5,000 W8 engine repair you should know that VW is dumping W8 short blocks for around the same price. Check out the blow out deals on the VW parts website and scroll down to the see that you can score a $25,000 W8 engine for a little over $5K. I wonder if it comes with a warrenty??


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## XR4Tim (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (GaW8owner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GaW8owner* »_What I want to know is, has anyone experienced a successful cam adjuster repair – one that lasted many thousands of miles?


The cam adjusters in my car were replaced at 52k miles. My W8 now has over 114k miles. Just keep your oil changed regularly with good synthetic.


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## GaW8owner (Nov 20, 2009)

Thanks for the post, XR4Tim. Nice to see SOME positive news.


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## XR4Tim (Nov 25, 2009)

You're welcome. Additionally, you may want to know that the cam adjusters can be replaced with the motor in the car. It requires a special tool, and a lot of care to make sure the timing chains don't slip, but it takes a lot less time than what the dealer would typically bill you for. Of course they will still want to charge you the whole 19+ hours of labor, but maybe you can talk them down.


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## vertigoeffect (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: '03 Passat W8: Torque Converter and Cam Adjuster Problem in last 10 days (XR4Tim)*

I can vouch for oil changes in these cars. Im not trying to imply there isnt a problem with the adjusters but XR4 is absolutely right. I bought my 02 new and have put 0W-40 in every 3,000-3,500 and im still on my original cam adjusters and just turned 119,000 miles today. Its not a guarantee but it probably lowers your chances of the issue a great deal. XR4Tim has seen my odometer and has access to my service history, he can vouch that they are my original adjusters.


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## BlackJelli (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: (GaW8owner)*

GAW8, where in Decatur are you? I live in East Lake near Oakhurst. My W8 is silver and has been on a replacement set of adjusters for 18,000 miles. Also two replaced O2 sensors, cam chains and clutch disk (6 speed manual) all done on the same trip. Jim Ellis in Chamblee has a great mech who is on these boards and is regarded as the best W8 tech in the south.


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## GaW8owner (Nov 20, 2009)

Hey BlackJelli. I’m just inside the parameter on Scott Blvd/Lawrenceville highway. My W8 was just at Jim Ellis as well. They replaced all 8 ignition coils under the recent recall, so no charge. That was nice. They drove it, tested it and said the cam adjuster fault was cleared and didn’t come back. Whew! So guess I’m in the clear for now. Knock wood. I’ve been replacing the oil every 5,000 miles, but after reading all this, I’ll definitely start changing every 3K. Thanks for the tip about the mech at Jim Ellis. Good to know there’s a W8 expert so close. Luck with your VDub, and see you on the road!


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## GaW8owner (Nov 20, 2009)

Agree - thanks for the post, XR4Tim. Nice to see SOME positive news.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (Museeuw)*

It comes with a 12,000 mile/12 month warranty.I bought one. Don't expect VWOA to stand behind this warranty (just like they didn't recall the cam adjusters). I purchased my engine 15,000 miles ago and it still runs. For how long I don't know. I take oil samples every 3K miles and mine came back high on metal content. At 5K I actually saw metal shavings in the bottom of my oil drain pan. I submitted the oil sample results from the lab to VWOA and they refused to replace my engine that I just paid $10,000.00 for. I will never own another VW.


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## XR4Tim (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: (un4givun2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *un4givun2* »_It comes with a 12,000 mile/12 month warranty.I bought one. Don't expect VWOA to stand behind this warranty (just like they didn't recall the cam adjusters). I purchased my engine 15,000 miles ago and it still runs. For how long I don't know. I take oil samples every 3K miles and mine came back high on metal content. At 5K I actually saw metal shavings in the bottom of my oil drain pan. I submitted the oil sample results from the lab to VWOA and they refused to replace my engine that I just paid $10,000.00 for. I will never own another VW.

So your engine runs fine, but you wanted it replaced under warranty anyway? I don't know how severe the metal shavings in your oil pan were, but some metal shavings and fairly high oil consumption are normal for break-in on a new engine.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (XR4Tim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XR4Tim* »_
So your engine runs fine, but you wanted it replaced under warranty anyway? I don't know how severe the metal shavings in your oil pan were, but some metal shavings and fairly high oil consumption are normal for break-in on a new engine.


The reason I insisted on them replacing my engine for the high level (and visible) metal content is because that was their reasoning for replacing my old 79K mile engine that was running just fine. It had the check engine light on and the fault code was for the cam adjusters. My engine had none of the other symptoms people describe with engine fluttering and loss of power. My engine ran fine, but between 3 high priced technicians at the dealer and 2 different VWOA Technicians they could not make the cam adjuster code go away. They pulled the engine twice and replaced the cam adjusters twice. They had the car for 3 months and finally one day they call me and tell me the engine is bad. VWOA backed this up with an oil sample. The level of metal in the oil in my old engine was LESS than what my new engine has today. I am documenting all of this so I can build a case against VW.


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## gods_dad (Dec 22, 2009)

I love my W8. Yeah, it's had a few problems here and there, but it is an amazing "Q" car. If you don't like quirky cars (Which are likely to have a few more issues than run of the mill versions) then I would sell up.
Let someone who will appreciate the car buy it!


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## billj3cub (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: (XR4Tim)*

Hey XR4Tim, tell me more about the motor-in-the-car-cam-adjuster-replacement method. Also, pleeeease describe the special tool and how it is used. Inquiring minds want to know since I am going to be tackling this soon!
The following is a post I made at http://www.w8forum.dk/forum:
I was planning on pulling the valve covers off then pulling just the solenoids out that are only held in with two screws each, not the actuators that are bolted onto the ends of the camshafts.
If the cams will not twist because the actuators on the ends of the camshafts are seized, or they do not twist freely after twisting them back and forth with a huge wrench until I have ground whatever varnish/100um stainless metal wires (what the filter screen was made of) is ground to mush, then I will go to plan B.
(Warning! plan B consists of crazy talk that may not be suitable for all audiences. You have been warned.) I have an idea on how to secure the timing chains against the hydraulic tensioners, mark the position of the cam sprockets and chain and unbolt the actuators from the cams and lift them out. It looks like I will need to make a special socket or wrench to loosen the cam bolt all the way with no room to work with. If this works I could make a kit with instructions that can be passed around to whoever needs it next.
Also, for a better description of what is going on look at my first two posts made on 1-12-10 at:
http://www.w8forum.dk/forum_po...16252
and for a better visual of all this stuff check out the cool "W_Engine_Concept.pdf" at:
http://mysite.verizon.net/b5cr...t.pdf 


_Modified by billj3cub at 8:30 PM 1-12-2010_


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## billj3cub (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: (billj3cub)*

I would like to mention about the torque converter (TC) issue. A fellow tech that I respect took the failed TC out of an Audi that is the exact same TC that the W8 automatic uses. He was disgusted enough at the replacement cost that he did some research and found out that the TC itself does not mechanically fail. It is an internal seal that fails. So he drove down to Eugene, Oregon to a place that rebuilds these TC's. He watched them cut it open on a lathe, clean it up, showed him the old seal with the chunk missing out of it, replaced the seal with a high quality one, welded it all back together and finished by checking the balance. All for $240.
Even if VW/Audi is using the same quality seal in their replacement TC (which is probably likely as technology marches on) I would still have no problem preferring this rebuilt TC over a new TC.


_Modified by billj3cub at 8:32 PM 1-12-2010_


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## 2vw4motions (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: Our (Cheap) Fix for W8 Camshaft problem! (Gumbyrock)*

First off I'm new and want to thank you all for posting these things. A little background, My 17 yr old son put a lot of his own money into his first car and got a lot nicer one then the other kids and worked hard for it. (Oh, i'm the mom) so he has had his beatiful black 03 w8 passat 4 motion for a year and 1/2. Picked this one because he liked my v6 passat 4motion so well and we live in a snowy area. Anyway, it started running rough and the light came on took it to a private vw mechanic and it showed the cam shaft adjusters. Took it to the vw dealership, because the mechanic hadn't done this on the W8 and they said cam shaft and torque converter. and $9400!! I got on the internet for hours Friday night and found this site and this is hopefully a miracle for us. Here is why i'm writing. He and my husband did all the steps below, the shock treament and the the engine purge. He drove down the road, it is really smooth!! Then the code light goes off! We are so excited about this. But now he said it is running a little rough again. Could it be that we need to run another treatment through it? One thing I didn't think about when i got all the things we needed, was an extra filter to put in after the first purge. I am just hoping that we need to do this engine purge treatment one more time. Any thoughts and thanks so much for all of this information. Right now, mom just might be a genious!


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## Gumbyrock (Jul 12, 2009)

*Its still running smoothly after the oil purge.....*

Funny - we bought this car for a 17 year old as well because of the snow! - We flushed the engine out several times with the engine purge to get it to run correctly - it must take several times to get (most) all the grunge out. We have now been driving this car for about 20,000 miles since the problem with no issues related to the camshafter adjusters.
If you start to hear the engine run rough and think it is the camshaft adjuster, flush it out once more and I bet it will run smoothly. We also put the best synthetic oil that we could find and made sure it had a very low viscosity - this seems to have fixed it permanently. Its a shame that people are blowing ~10,000 bucks to get this fixed at a VW dealer withoout trying this first.


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## seatowjoe (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: Our (2vw4motions)*

Also, check out 
http://www.w8forum.dk/
It is a website devoted specifically to the W8. There is an alternative fix for the camshaft adj. over there.


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## 2vw4motions (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: Our (seatowjoe)*

Thank you both!! This forum is awesome!! I've learned way more then i wanted to but very interesting and so worth saving thousands of dollars!! 
I have a question for you Gumbyrock.
i know everyone has their opinion on what the best synthetic oil is, but what are your recomendations? Sorry to put you on the spot but i vaiue your opinion. 20K after this procedure is a great testimony!


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## 2vw4motions (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (Gumbyrock)*

(Sorry i posted under the other name earlier)
I have a question for you Gumbyrock.
i know everyone has their opinion on what the best synthetic oil is, but what are your recomendations? Sorry to put you on the spot but i vaiue your opinion. 20K after this procedure is a great testimony!


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## AbesW8 (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (Gumbyrock)*

Im having the same problem too. im not familiar with the engine purge, can u guide me in the right direction i really need to try this.


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## Gumbyrock (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (AbesW8)*

Try this stuff:
Mobile 1 0W-20 Fully synthetic (It isn't cheap)
Here is the engine purge : Gunk High Mileage Motor Flush (One Quart) comes in a grey bottle. Follow the instructions on the bottle, they are pretty simple. You add this stuff to the existing oil BEFORE you change the oil and add the 0W-20 Weight synthetic oil.
Of course, get a good filter as well, like a Mann oil filter or something similar.


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## 2vw4motions (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (2vw4motions)*

Up date:
We did another shock treatment and engine purge last night and the light is still on and it seems to run ok accept when stopped and taking off i could notice it missing or hesitant, my son says it happens during higher speeds too, but i just don't notice it. That light started flashing at one point yesterday but then stopped. 
I took it to Advanced Auto and here are the codes
P0021 Camshaft Position Actuator A Bank 2 timing over advanced
P0741 Torque Converter Performance or stuck off.
He had the transmission flushed about a month ago
I'm grasping at straws here but my husband wonders if it could be that there is a wire not connected completely and causing problems. 
Maybe we need to keep driving and see if it improves? 
We are about thinking of try to trade it in to the dealer aware of the problems, if they will and taking a huge loss. IF it's really that both of these things need replaced it will cost as much as the car is worth. 
Thanks for any more advice.


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## AbesW8 (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (2vw4motions)*

who informed you of the p0741 code? I just got my car out of the dealer since the engine started knocking last week...they told me it was a bad torque converter but when i asked for the diagnostic results i had no codes for the TC.


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## 2vw4motions (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (AbesW8)*

Advanced auto parts gave me the code. The VW dealership didn't give the code they just said toruque convertor. 
I may have said it wrong in my original message.
The private VW mechanic said the code was for the cam shaft adjusters. VW dealership said Tourqe convertor and now the Advance Auto Store person said both.


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## AbesW8 (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (2vw4motions)*

i guess im a bit skeptical...tc problems but no codes..i originally thought it was a rod...i really dont trust the dealer since VWOA since hasnt done anything with this model, even after were all having the same problems.


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## billj3cub (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (AbesW8)*

To do a through job of purging the motor and especially the cam actuators, use two 12 oz bottles of AutoRx (at $22/bottle) with 5w-30 conventional oil or, if you insist, a type III synthetic, and run for 2k to 3k miles. Don't run AutoRx with a type IV synthetic which is typically an Ester based product. The Ester molecule in a Type IV synthetic oil "competes" with the Ester blends in AutoRx, not allowing them to fully attach to and slowly dissolve the gunk and varnish over time.
After 2k to 3k miles, drain and change the filter (it should be pretty gunked up) and refill with conventional "Dino" oil and run for another 2k to 3k miles to let the residual Esters in AutoRx that have absorbed into the motor's gunk and varnish to continue working. Then drain, change the filter, and fill with your favorite oil.
I prefer Amsoil and Redline. They are both top of the line synthetics that will tend to keep the engine internally clean because of the polar character of their Ester molecules.


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## billj3cub (Dec 15, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (billj3cub)*

At the risk of posting more than anyone may want to read I am copying a post I made to the W8forum with a couple modifications:
I am convinced the application of 12v to the cam adjuster solenoids is the proper thing to do. If it is sludge/varnish/oil deposits of some type then the AutoRX/Seafoam/oil flush procedure will be helpful. If the fine stainless steel wire screen material has come loose and is jamming up the solenoids or cam adjusters then only physical cleaning or knocking them loose will help. That is where the "electroshock" therapy comes into play but is by no means the final resource you have. I would like everyone to hold on to their hats until I get a chance to examine my W8 that is showing a Check Engine Light with the P0011 code.
*If you are interested, here is a technical explanation of what I have seen so far:*
*1) Internal engine cleaning is good.* Do not panic and overdo it though because if you damage bearing surfaces there is no recovery from that.
*a) You can do a short engine flush.* This is the 5 minute (Gunk brand) to 30 minute (Amsoil brand, Seafoam, etc) flush you do right before an oil change. I prefer the longer, milder 30 minute flush. In any case, follow the manufacturers directions and remember; the W8 holds about ~10 quarts oil so you will have to use twice as much flush as would be used on a "normal" 5 quart oil capacity motor. This is a good thing and is relatively cheap. $5 to $15 plus the oil change.
*b) You can do the dealer's machine flush* that especially Toyota and VW/Audi have developed for their particular sludge/varnish/deposit problems. This may be a good thing too and may fit into your maintenance program depending on how "stuck" your solenoids/adjusters are and what your next maintenance steps will be. This treatment was around $125 last time I checked. The only reservation I have is that this procedure flushes gunk buildup that is laying around the inside of a motor
(like a gear driven camshaft Toyota motor) but will not likely get inside the cam actuators which is is exactly where we need it.
*c) You can do the long term internal cleaners* like AutoRX, Seafoam, Rislone (?) and others (help me out here). I only know about AutoRX and see it as a very good thing. You will probably spend an extra $50 to $200 depending on how many treatments you choose to run through.
*d) By the way, when you are all done with the flushing programs* and are set to go back to a regular drain interval I recommend full synthetic oils and even then I would stay with Ester based synthetics like Amsoil or Redline because Esters have built in self cleaning properties (they are a polar molecule). I don't know off hand what other Synthetics are Ester based.
*2) In addition to the chemical cleaning steps above you will want to do a physical exercising of the two affected parts;* the hydraulic cam adjusters that are bolted to the ends of the camshafts and the electrical solenoids that control the cam adjusters by regulating the flow of oil pressure to them. Here is a great training document that shows how the motor is built and how the adjustable cam stuff works. Look on pages 29 & 30:
http://mysite.verizon.net/b5cr...t.pdf
Here is a picture of the actual adjusters and solenoids on a opened up W8. Look at post date of, 20-Jan-2009 at 21:45
http://www.w8forum.dk/forum_po...r-fix
*a) I am not a fan of exercising the solenoids using a scanner* (Volkswagen Auto Group Communications link or VAG/COM) because that is what the car's computer (ECM) is constantly doing all the time while you are driving. Might as well flush the oil and just go out and drive the car. One exception I can see is if your mechanic wants to sit there and drive the solenoids back and forth with a VAG/COM while the motor is being flushed.
*b) A far better method is to drive the solenoids with 12v* from the car battery which is far stronger than the 5v it normally sees from the computer. This is a good thing because where it may have been stuck with only 5v from the computer, 12v has a much, much greater chance of getting them loose if that is indeed the problem. It is simple (there are 2 wires coming from each solenoid) and it is easy to know if it is working. You will hear clicking as the plunger in the solenoid is moved when you apply and release voltage. If not, try reversing the voltage back and forth numerous times until applying 12v extends the plunger with a click and releasing the 12v produces a click from the built in spring retracting the plunger. Applying 12v has been proven to be safe to the solenoids by the Swiss tech that first explored and published this procedure. If the solenoids do not respond you can always remove the valve covers, pull the solenoids out and clean the plungers and their bores by hand. Pulling the valve covers is way better than pulling the motor.
*c) If the hydraulic actuators are stuck* because the solenoids are moving freely but you are still getting cam codes then you have three things you can do:
*i) Drive the car while the cleaners do their work*(AutoRx, seafoam, etc). If there is some movement in the actuators and they are only a little gummed/varnished up then this will work. If the actuator is totally stuck then there is not going to be any oil flow into and out of the internal vanes and little chance that cleaners will help. If there are bits of torn out very fine stainless steel wire from what was previously a screen meant to protect this stuff, and it has totally jammed the actuators, then you will need to go to the next step and: (BTW, I have since learned that the stainless steel mesh screen is part of the solenoid body where it inserts into the head and surrounds the plunger portion of the solenoid)
*ii) Remove the valve covers and twist the cams back and forth* with a really huge pair of pliers until they twist freely. You can twist a lot harder on the cams with a huge pair of pliers than the oil pressure ever could. After removing the valve covers you need to remove the solenoids that are now sitting right there in the open so the oil control passages are completely opened up and not restricting the cam's movement. The intake should move through 52 degrees of motion and the exhaust should twist with only 22 degrees of motion. If they do not loosen up and twist freely even after you have twisted the cams back and forth with all your might until your hands have gone numb then:
*iii) You will have to take the actuators off the ends of the cams,* take them apart and clean them. Don't give up and remove the motor quite yet. I am going to dive into my W8 very soon and I have an idea of how to relax the cam chain tensioners so the actuators can be unbolted, taken out, taken apart and cleaned then reinstalled. I am determined to do this. BTW, if any of you techs out there are reading this and know of a tool or can give me a clue I would appreciate all your advise.
*3) Do not let anybody scare you* by saying there are bits of metal in the pan and your motor is ruined. The bits of metal is what is left of a fine stainless steel mesh that was a filter in the oil passage to the cam actuators. This debris will not hurt anything except the oil pump because the oil filter will capture it all if the pump does suck it up. If the pump is hurt a little switch to 10w-40 oil. If the pump got hurt a lot then drop the pan, replace the pump, clean and reinstall the pan and drive away happy! The cam chains and slide rails should go a minimum of 150k miles but I would expect more like 250k+ miles. No need to replace any of that. It is also my understanding that despite what people have written there is no difference between the old parts and new parts. There are no updated parts and I won't believe that until a tech shows me the old and the new ones side by side showing the differences or an official tech bulletin comes from VW. Parts guys and service guys don't count, they are there to sell parts and to sell service.
*The W8 is a rock solid motor.* The unfortunate problems caused by the stainless steel screen or the build up of sludge can be dealt with, I believe, without removing the motor and without the unnecessary replacement of any of the very expensive cam drive parts and housings. VW blew a great chance to develop a kit that any tech could use to secure the cam chains so the actuators could be removed and simply cleaned. I wish i had bought a W8 years ago so I could have made the kit then rather than now and helped more people. But here we are.
I did the same thing for the Cadillac NorthStar motor when the official Aluminum block/head bolt corrosion repair proved less than reliable and I made my own method of repair. We have dealt with the same foolishness from Toyota when they were replacing $1000 instrument clusters on their LS400 when all it needed was a 5 cent capacitor to make a 100% repair. We know that now.
Toyota, Cadillac, VW. No one is immune. So lets move forward with what we know right now and do the best for the customer even if it takes some effort. We could cut our time and expense on these W8's to 1/10 of what was previously accepted and there would still be more than enough work to do with all the sludged up Toyota's, leaky GMs and painful Honda timing belts out there to deal with. And as the great philosopher Forrest once said, "Any that's all I have to say about that".


_Modified by billj3cub at 2:40 PM 2-28-2010_


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## 2vw4motions (Feb 16, 2010)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (billj3cub)*

Hi i just wanted to ask you a question on the oil and autoRX. 
BTW the light went out today on ours!!! We did our second purge last Friday. Still crossing fingers. 
In case this doesn't work over time.... will try the autoRX, but where do you get it? 
Also, what is an example of "dino" oil? 
Thanks much 
Oh and my husband went to VW dlr and they won't help w/ the repair if we have to go that route and they checked /w the VW service rep who said they don't now either. Too long ago.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (2vw4motions)*

Good post guys! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gumbyrock (Jul 12, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (PowerDubs)*

I have to share this story with someone - especially people on this forum since some of you may ahve already gone through this!







About 6 months ago we took our W8 in for a recall and had some work done to the exhaust shiield - it was at this time that we pointed out to the repari shop (Tynan's in Denver) that we had the cam shaft adjuster issue and were looking at possibly trading the 2003 passat in for something else (note that we fixed the cam shaft adjuster issue on our own). The mechanic said it was about a 9,600 dollar repair - pretty accurate according to what we were quoted at other VW delaers.
SO - we went to the sales people at Tynan's and said "what will you give us for the 2003 Passat W8? (We had just paid 28,000 bucks for the car about 1 or 1.5 years prior to that).We were prepared to take a bath on the car and move on! He said the car was worth about 9,500 bucks - so factoring in the mechanical work that would need to be done to resell the vehicle, the car was worthless. The car was in good-excellent shape and had about 65,000 miles on it at that time.
I am not B.S.'ing you - they actually wanted us to hand them the keys to the vehicle, walk out on the lot and purchase a car from their inventory!







The only reason I mention this to everyone is that you can expect to get nothing from the dealers in "sympathy" for the problems that you are experiencing with the W8.


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (Gumbyrock)*

wow, 11300 views and still going strong.
Nothing is more funny that changing the oil on a passat w8 with 62,000 miles only to find a glistening gold color to the oil in the oil filter cartridge when removed







:thumbup:to 2 w8 owners
Oh, and all those w8 cars you see at small dealers, yea, they need engines. 
The ones you see at vw dealers, yea they had the engines replaced for free by vw


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (Slimjimmn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slimjimmn* »_wow, 11300 views and still going strong.
Nothing is more funny that changing the oil on a passat w8 with 62,000 miles only to find a glistening gold color to the oil in the oil filter cartridge when removed








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to 2 w8 owners
Oh, and all those w8 cars you see at small dealers, yea, they need engines. 
The ones you see at vw dealers, yea they had the engines replaced for free by vw









One to hear one even funnier?? I changed my oil at 6,000 miles (brand new engine) to find a glistening silver color in the oil and the oil filter. I had a brand new oil drain pan (black plastic type) I was using that has the little drain hole in the center. I had the pan offset about 10" from center so the oil draining out of my oil pan had to run across the top of my drain pan. When the oil was finished draining I noticed a sliver streak that went from the edge of my pan all the way to the center. Next, I removed the oil filter and it looked like a Christmas tree ornament there were so many silver metal flakes in/on it.
Want to hear something funnier??? When I returned the car to the dealer to have the engine replaced _AGAIN_ under warranty they just laughed and said that was normal.
There's nothing normal about it. The worse part about that is the cam adjuster screens. All that metal debris that's in these engines that VWOA claims is normal is what clogs the pre-screens on the cam adjusters. Once the screen becomes clogged enough that oil flow becomes restriced the increased force being placed on the screens causes the screen to fail and the cam adjuster fails shortly after.


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## dstathos (Sep 30, 2005)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (Gumbyrock)*

The price the dealer gave you for your car is, relative to my experiece (I was the guy who originally posted this message) great.
When I followed the exact same process you did, the sales people were willing to give me $750 for my car--a total loss.


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## AbesW8 (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (dstathos)*

I have to agree with you...the kelly blue book on the car is only like 9000 to begin with (which you will never get from a dealer), i actually have a bad tourque converter now and what i did is a called a local dealer and told him that something was wrong with the car since it makes noise going down the road. I told them i didnt know what was wrong with it and the manager that i was talking to said "if you can drive it in, we can trade it" they offfered me $1500. fyi-it cost $4500 to replace the TC...the car does have 135,000 miles on it....and a lot of abuse







I dont understand how my car is still running since i once went like 30,000 miles on 1 oil change and just barely at around 120,000 i started having the problems....maybe all the gunk inside the engine is keeping it together


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## GaW8owner (Nov 20, 2009)

Update on my beloved '03 W8. Went in for ignition coil recall in Nov, indicated cam adjusters as well. Replaced ig coils, and cam fault cleared. Fast forward to late Feb, out of the blue, car stumbles again. Bad idle, runs rough. Sure enough, cam fault again. First thing tech says to me is, "Uhh, do you have a warranty on this car?" Bad sign. Luckily I'd purchased Carefree Car Care extended warranty from Fidelity Warranty company. They honored the repair and paid $8,000 to replace cam adjusters. But that was it for me. I'd changed the oil every 5,000 miles with full synthetic oil, followed manufacturer maintanance to the letter and the car still needs $8K engine repair after 62K miles!!?? No way. I would have loved to keep the car to 150K miles plus, but not after this experience. Audi dealer in Atlanta offered me $8,000 for the car and I took it. I really do miss the car. The engine was so pure and smooth. I miss the sound it made -- when it ran properly. But no more. Here's hoping my new 2008 A4 2.0T (with only 20K miles) will be more reliable. So long W8 owners - and good luck! I'll be just a little envious when I see you go by.


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## un4givun2 (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (GaW8owner)*

You are SMART!








I wish I had the sense to get rid of mine when the tranny blew at 49K miles. Since then it's had cam adjusters, NEW ENGINE, new CV joints/axles, new front end, new alternator, new gas tank, new instrument cluster, new ECU, new radiator fan, 4 sets of rims, new control module for the steering wheel mounted buttons, new home link, new carpet (from floor-to-firewall body seam/weld breaking), new emergency brake cable, new heat shield between tranny and floor pan, new seals between the fresh air intake and cabin, new wiring/cables for the starter and charging system due to wires rubbing the insulation off and shorting, and just recently a new climate control.
Car currently needs new engine and transmission mounts. 
The car only has 101K miles on it. The only things still original on the car are the seats, head liner, door panels, paint, wheel hubs, steering knuckles, rear differential, brake calipers and radiator. 
The cheapest car I ever bought was a 1987 Mitsu Mirage 4cyl manual. I drove that piece of crap like it was stolen. At least once a week I would do a 60mph rear wheel lock-up using the emergency brakes to slide the rear wheels and red line the engine in 3rd gear to keep the car going. Then I would drop into 2nd gear as it slowed down to 45mph and I would cut the wheels hard to see how many times it would spin out before nearly coming to a stop in 1st gear. That car was 2 years old when I bought it with 20K miles on it. I blew then engine up at 125K miles (broke a piston). I replaced the broken piston and traded the car in and got $3K for the trade in which was exactly what I paid for it!!
This $40K piece of German $h!t wouldn't last 4 weeks if I drove it like I drove my first car.


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## VWGUY4EVER (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (un4givun2)*

One thing I was never good at was following "manufacturers recommendations" for maintenance. 10,000 miles is too long for any oil in my opinion. I checked the oil in my W8 at 600 miles. It was 1 quart low. I topped it and checked again at 1200 miles. Level was normal. To me, it was "broken in" and the oil needed to be changed. At 1300 miles, I changed it with AMPOIL (not AMSOIL) 10w60 racing synthetic. I turned it in to VW (lease regrettably)at 75000 miles. I changed the oil at: 1300, 4200, 9700, 15500, 23500, 29000, 35000, 41500, 48000, 53000,59500, 66000 and 73000 miles. Never had a cam fault.
I sent the factory "wiz-bang special break-in oil" to AV Lubes for analysis. I might still have the PDF they emailed me but it went kinda like this:
- Copper level HIGH
- Oxidation level HIGH
RECOMMENDATION: And I quote: "CHANGE IF NOT ALREADY CHANGED AND CHECK AT NORMAL INTERVALS" (And this was the special "Don't change for 5000 mile" special break in oil at 1300 miles)
This caused some controversy when I posted it on passatworld back in the day until I posted the findings.
I still say:
Engine - 6 months or 5000 miles
Coolant - 2-3 years
Brake fluid - 2 years
Trans fluid - 3 yrs / 30-40K
How many members on here and passatworld, with or without W8's, have posted about clogged heater cores, failed or misbehaving transmissions at 90K with the "Lifetime" fluid". Extended service intervals are just marketing gimmicks to get you to buy an otherwise "it's gonna be expensive to maintain" car. While this is my opinion based on 20+ years of working on cars and working in the repair end, can you imagine any engineer saying: "Sure, leave that fluid in forever. It will be fine...." I can imagine the marketing department saying that..
Imagine the meeting at some "luxury German brand" a little over a decade ago....
- Guys, we want to sell more cars than we ever did.
- But boss, our cars are expensive and they're expensive to maintain.
- Well lets come up with a "cheaper" entry level little $hit box.
- What about maintenance costs ?
- We'll tell people they only need to have it serviced once a year or 10,000 miles.....
Or something like that... This particular company had engines sludging at 40-50K because they were still using dino and never recommended synthetic until 2001 or so...



_Modified by VWGUY4EVER at 3:24 PM 4-9-2010_


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## VWAffe (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: Its still running smoothly after the oil purge..... (billj3cub)*

Greetings, all W8 lovers & haters, comrades in automotive ecstasy and suffering. I've recently put my W8 back on the road after storing it for 18 months, waiting for life to settle down enough to afford parts for and time to replace my clutch - I've missed driving it terribly.
Allow me to introduce myself - I'm the bilingual mechanical engineer and W8 6MT owner who brought the "elektroshock therapy" to english-speaking attention over at the W8Forum. 
Billj3cub provided a very well-written synopsis of the issue and the less-invasive treatment options. You really owe it to yourself to try these methods before giving up on the car or going into hock for the labor involved with removing the engine to replace the camshaft adjuster housings. 


_Quote, originally posted by *billj3cub* »_At the risk of posting more than anyone may want to read I am copying a post I made to the W8forum with a couple modifications:
I am convinced the application of 12v to the cam adjuster solenoids is the proper thing to do. If it is sludge/varnish/oil deposits of some type then the AutoRX/Seafoam/oil flush procedure will be helpful. If the fine stainless steel wire screen material has come loose and is jamming up the solenoids or cam adjusters then only physical cleaning or knocking them loose will help. That is where the "electroshock" therapy comes into play but is by no means the final resource you have. I would like everyone to hold on to their hats until I get a chance to examine my W8 that is showing a Check Engine Light with the P0011 code.
*If you are interested, here is a technical explanation of what I have seen so far:*
...


If I may add my 2 cents to the Vortex - the analysis of the issue in German-speaking circles is that the pre-filter screens are the offending culprits. Some housings that have been removed have had nearly the entire screens missing, and that on camshaft banks that were not malfunctioning - which led to the diagnosis that the screens can pass through the solenoids and adjusters with no ill effect, as long as they disintegrate in small enough pieces. The screens are a very fine (I forget the measurement) stainless mesh that is much coarser than the filtration afforded by the oil filter... so there's no additional protection offered by them after initial startup. Several owners on the continent have either removed what's left and reinstalled, or taken the screens out of the new housings altogether, with no recurrence of the problem. Multiple "shock therapies" may be needed as the screens continue to break up, but the long term has shown this to be a pretty reliable solution - and eventually the screens will be gone for good.
As with any medical solution, the more invasive the procedure, the higher the risk of complications...
My car (an '03 6MT sedan) suffered the dreaded "failure" at about 35k miles - under warranty and also under the first owner's purview. I bought it with ~55K on it, drive the snot out of it, and have 97k on it... so far, no problems other than the thermostat being flaky, a clutch, and fallout from slipshod work by the only dealership ever to work on it.
It's just hard to find good help anywhere I think. I've been fixing slipshod work done by the dealership ever since I've had it; nearly all problems undoubtedly caused by a mechanic who paid little attention to detail. (I can criticize, because I've worked in that job, too - you're always under pressure of the book time, but there's still time to do it right if you care. The alternative is a comeback, which is worse.) 
Most problems I'm having stem from the fact that the tech who did the engine removal to replace the camshaft adjuster housings had to drop the engine three times before he got it back together well enough to leave the shop - found out later that he almost got fired over it. Issues he caused that I've discovered:
1. Bent main ground strap tab between block and frame - didn't fix it, and arcing over resulting air gap resulted in a slagged connection that killed the battery and almost induced me to replace the alternator.
2. Contaminated the A/C system with dirt, which eventually caused the compressor to seize. Still waiting to fix that one.
3. Stripped 3/4 of the pressure plate bolt heads and "torqued" at least one with a vice-grip... I had to drill them out and source the correct replacements while the car sat on the lift last week burning shop rental fees.
4. Stripped an exhaust flange weld nut - obviously used an impact gun to reinstall bolts that only should be torqued to ~20 ft-lbs. I fixed it by backing it up with another M8 nut. He left it loose, exhaust undoubtedly leaking.
Overall, the W8 is/was a great car that was intended to usher in the era of the Phaeton, and never sold well. The W-engine is not unique to the Passat. It's just unfortunate for VW how they chose to treat the camshaft adjuster issue, but as anyone who has turned a wrench on a water-cooled VW knows, the factory recommended repair procedures sometime call for draconian measures that can be avoided with a little experience or true diagnosis of the fault. VW is not alone in that regard; it's just a sign of the times.
Cheers all...


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## Kevin'sW8 (Sep 13, 2010)

*Denver Repair*



Gumbyrock said:


> Update - since we did the oil purge, we have not had the engine camshafter warning come on for 5 months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you tell me who and where in Denver repaired your W8?


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## ejw (Oct 14, 2010)

Kevin'sW8 said:


> Can you tell me who and where in Denver repaired your W8?


 I need the name of the repair shop in Denver as well please. Just had this issue come up on my W8 and after reading this thread am FREAKING out. 

Thnanks!


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## ejw (Oct 14, 2010)

Gumbyrock said:


> Update - since we did the oil purge, we have not had the engine camshafter warning come on for 5 months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Would you be able to tell me the name of the shop? Looking like I need to get this done. Thanks!


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## W8inmtl (Nov 24, 2010)

*Torque Converter*

Hi-didn't see this thread when I posted a Q on torque converter issue with my W8-wagon-2003. MIL light went on last month at the dealer during routine maintenance, and after $400 in labour to track problem, they told me my TC was out of spec and next would be the tranny if I didn't fix it asap @ $3K:screwy:. Car just fell out of warranty and was acquired certified from VW. I have since complained to VW Canada. MIL light now is off and running fine but smells like gas in my garage when I fill up. Has anyone have info on whether this part is defective and if VW has considered a recall?


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## spider115 (Jan 16, 2011)

*TC Issue*

No there has not been a recall for this. I keep getting the CEL with the P0741 Torque Converter Performance or stuck off code but I just reset it and roll on. All this is really doing is keeping the Transmission from "free rolling" or "Coasting" which can and eventually will burn out the trans. Don't get me wrong I love my W8 but it has been a Pain in the A$$ for repairs. Right now its been in the local Dealer for 2 weeks with an electrical issue with the CCM that they still havent figured out. I had to replace the engine last March due to the Cam position (at the time i had not seen any of these forums) but im into the car for about $12K but from the way is (when working correctly) I still think its worth it.


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

thought I would bump this. 
Last time I did tensioners I pulled the engine/trans then took the rear covers off. 









would like to know how to do it w/o removing the engine lolopcorn:


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## Mikes4288 (Apr 20, 2009)

Slimjimmn said:


> thought I would bump this.
> Last time I did tensioners I pulled the engine/trans then took the rear covers off.
> 
> 
> ...


 Does anyone know if the s4 manual is a direct swap?


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## gcwalla (Mar 6, 2005)

I am really curious how you replaced the cam adjusters in the car with out pulling the engine or trans? If the VW opperating table was used(it wasn't in picture) this really isn't that hard. You do have to be smart enough to know how to use the table though. It splits in the middle and make doing chains a lot easier, Especially on touareg V6s. The torque converter can be done easily enough with engine in by slightly lowering the subframe, really the hardest part of doing a torque converter is getting the starter out tp access the TQ bolts.


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## CoolRide02 (May 2, 2012)

*Cam adjuster problem*

I was hit with the cam adjuster problem a few months ago. At around 120k miles. It hit suddenly, a little stutter when stopped at a stoplight on the way to work, and then a full blown shaking whenever stopped or slowing on the way home. After reading this forum and w8forum, I decided to try the sea foam and reversing polarity trick to "exercise" the solenoids. It worked wonders. A barely noticeable stuttering immediately after the exercising, which went away all together after about 500 miles.

I had a lot of trouble reaching the connectors for the solenoids and ended up breaking some the latches getting the connectors apart. A couple of weeks ago I changed my valve cover gaskets and discovered that if you remove the intake manifold, it is much easier to get at the connectors. Removing the manifold was not the difficult, so that may be an option to anyone trying this technique. 

This is definitely worth trying before spending big money to pull the engine.


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## billj3cub (Dec 15, 2009)

*W8 cam adjuster P0021 code P0011 code and shock treatment*

I believe this to be the ultimate summation concerning the W8 cam adjuster/P0021/P0011 code and will show there is more to this than just shock treatment of the solenoids but the short answer is; remove and clean the valve body under the solenoid! It is easy to do!! Really!!!

The following is a focus on cleaning the adjustor Solenoid/Valve assembly which I am convinced is the heart of the problem and what should be dealt with every time. If you want to read a more comprehensive overview of the W8 cam adjustor issue then look for my long posting under user name Billj3cub at:

http://forums.fourtitude.com/showth...nd-Cam-Adjuster-Problem-in-last-10-days/page4

Note: Regarding the solenoid shock treatment, you don't need to reverse polarity. The plunger will extend out of the solenoid regardless of the polarity.

Another note: In the following description I call the parts a Valve and Valve Body because they are miniature versions of a automatic transmission valve and valve body.

When doing the solenoid shock treatment, if the solenoid clicks then it is probably good. If it does not click then pretty much guaranteed the valve is stuck depressed down in the valve body, the spring can't push the valve back up, the plunger is hanging fully extended out of the solenoid (it only moves 0.070"), and you will not hear a click because the solenoid is already fully extended. The solenoid is quite powerful, especially when applying 12 volts to it (computer only applies 5 volts), but the return spring is weak by comparison so if the valve is going to get stuck, it will get stuck in the downward position. That is what I have always found. If all 4 solenoids click but you are still getting cam adjustor codes then I would disassemble and inspect all 4 solenoids using the procedure below. The valve under the solenoid is the weak link that is most susceptible to sticking, the actual cam adjuster/sprockets are very tough and very, very tolerant of wear, debris, gunk, etc. Indeed, the chambers in the adjustable sprocket assembly will chew up and spit out anything that goes in there. I will gladly pay to have anyone with a supposedly worn out adjustable sprocket assembly send it to me so I can inspect it.
What has likely jammed the valve in the body are pieces of the super-fine mesh screen that was built into the solenoid holder and always comes apart over time. I have seen a new set of solenoids and their holder (big$$$) and the screen is a slightly thicker more robust material than original but I would never reinstall that unit, new or old, without tearing the whole screen out regardless.

The following procedure should take about two hours from start of tear down to finish of reassembly:
Take the intake manifold off.
Remove the valve cover.
IMPORTANT: Disconnect the battery so you cannot mistakenly turn the engine over then stuff rags into the cam drive openings around the chains and gears quite thoroughly so nothing can fall down there. Get even the smallest item stuck down low in the chain/gears where you can't reach it and it is game over.
Remove the two Torx screws that hold the solenoid on. Use a strong pencil magnet to catch the screws even though you previously stuffed rags in the cam drive opening. Every caution you take will be worth it.
Using two flat bladed screwdrivers carefully pry the solenoid as straight up out of its holder as you can. If it does not come out perfectly straight don't worry. When prying out, one of two things will happen:
1) If the solenoid breaks off the valve body, leaving the valve body behind in the holder, then carefully clean out the 3 cracked or chipped edges of the valve body where they were crimped/staked around the solenoid. It will be obvious what I am talking about when you are looking at these parts.
You will see the valve in the valve body with an offset oil passage hole near the center. That oil hole delivers oil to the solenoid for cooling and lubrication purposes.
Stick a straight pick tool with a tapered shaft in that hole and gently put sideways pressure on the tool while drawing the valve straight out. If it stuck, and it will be, (remember why we are in there?) then try alternately (gently!) pushing, pulling and twirling until it eventually starts moving and you can draw it out. Take your time and don't force it. It will come out faster than you initially think. You don't want to unnecessarily score or chip the valve or the bore it rides in. Pull the spring out of the bottom of the bore with a pick tool and carefully set it aside. Every one I have taken apart that was stuck had either tiny bits of screen or large chunks of screen or something in between. The valve is really simple, just wipe it clean.
Cleaning the valve body is more difficult. I suggest you remove all those rags you stuffed in the cam drive area, unplug the ignition coils from the other side of the motor if you have not already, hook up the battery, then have an assistant crank over the motor and let oil pressure flush out the debris until you are satisfied the body is clear. If you see the motor is all sludged up after removing the valve covers then this flushing procedure will verify that oil is flowing to the cam adjustors. You will see oil pulsing backwards out of the cam adjustor sprocket assembly supply passages toward the back of the motor then you will see oil flowing out of the supply passage toward the front of the motor. Clear out all of the oil in the valve body bore with paper towels, rags or compressed air (messy but it works) to verify any and all debris are gone. All this work takes less time to do than to say.
A word of advise here: I am not satisfied with purging the oil while leaving the valve body in its holder. There could still be debris trapped around the valve body and its bore that may not flush out immediately. If you look at where the base of the valve body would be you will see a cut out in the holder. Stick a large screwdriver in there and twist really hard or use a bearing puller tool that has a short stubby hook to hook the valve body and tap upwards. The 4 O-rings will be quite stuck in the bore but it WILL come out. Any scratches or chipping you cause on the bottom of the valve body are inconsequential. Now clean the removed parts and crank the motor over to flush the oil out of the valve body bore.
2) If the solenoid and valve body pull out of the holder as an assembly then you will have to pry the valve body off the solenoid then follow the procedure outlined above after 1) above. If the valve body does come out of the bore then after all the cleaning you can assemble the valve, valve body and solenoid together then apply 12 volts to the assembly and watch the valve shuttle back and forth in its body through the slots in the side of the body.

Disconnect the battery and again pack rags back around the cam drive to protect against dropsies then carefully place the spring back in the bore making sure the spring is not crooked in the bottom of the valve body! Push down on the valve to verify that it plungs down and returns smoothly then place the solenoid straight back down into position then carefully fasten the solenoid in place with the two Torx screws. The original crimping of the solenoid to the valve body is not needed here, that was only for original production assembly. Now would be a good time to drive the solenoid with battery voltage a few dozen times to hear that satisfying "click" and gain confidence that the valve is indeed free and not wanting to hang up.
Pull the rags out, install the valve cover, reassemble the rest of the intake, hoses and solenoid connectors. Drive the car around and be glad you did not unnecessarily have a shop remove the motor, replace the cam adjusters and solenoid assembly and blow $8,000 when all it takes is a few hours work to clean the solenoids. Think of it as regular maintenance (until all the screen material is gone) like cleaning the throttle body or replacing the spark plugs. The best part is you know exactly what you are doing and why you are doing it and can easily do it again if needed. No Fear, No Worry, No Sweat. The W8 lives again.

Editorial:
I am torn between the two: Had this clear understanding and procedure (and $300 verses $8,000 to have a shop do it) been known 5 years ago the W8 market would still be strong today and I would not have been able to get mine soooo cheep. But I do shed a tear for the untold millions of dollars unnecessarily thrown away and all the broken hearted owners that had to walk away from their dream car all from one unnecessary screen and one tiny valve that was easily cleaned.


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## BIG DUB (Feb 13, 2001)

Any pics of all this my buddy brought his 03 W8 to me and I replaced the cam position sensors and the code still comes up I may do the procedure you have explained above. Did you happen to take any pics?


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