# when your prop. valve starts to leak (mk3)



## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

I came up with a rather good plan. I did not want to spend $200 on a new prop valve for my old golf3, but leaving it was no longer an option (not only did it leak, but rear brakes were locking up too soon)

here is what I did. I bought 2 new rear flex hoses, and used them to bypass the prop valve (no cutting or flaring... direct connection) then I went and bought 2 prop valves from an older mk2 (10 bucks each new) that fit right on the master cylinder. Its been snowing up here and the rear brakes feel great so far...maybe not as good as a newer load sensitive prop valve but i saved myself over $150 ....and not to mention...on most mk3's there is NO WAY you are going to remove the original prop valve off its bracket..the allen bolts will NOT move, I tried every trick in the book. If you do want to replace the original valve....good luck. Your going to have to cut it off, somehow drill the old bolts out and get it welded back on...with a good possibility the angle will be off once its been cut and welded...

:thumbup:


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## greyhare (Dec 24, 2003)

Glad it worked for you. Keep bin mind if something does happen you are setting yourself up for ugly liability if the other guy's insurance finds out.

Why does everyone want to cut the old valve off. Drill the bolts on the car and replace. No cutting, no welding. A 90 degree drill may make it easier.


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## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

the bolts aren't threaded through the valve...they slide through the valve and thread into the bracket...there's simply no room to drill in that space, you would basically have to grind out the threaded nubs...and in order to grind you would have to remove the bracket, to remove the bracket you would have to pull the entire rear Axel out of the car...i just went through all this replacing the rear beam bushings.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

Sorry, but the inline propotioning valves don't work like the load sensing proportioning valves that come on MKIIIs. They are more like fluid restrictors, allowing a measured amount of fluid through under all conditions. This is not how the MKIII rear proportioning valves work (limiting the amount of fluid flow based on the rise and and fall of the rear of the car). 

Greyhare is right on all points. In the case of an accident, the liability is all going to be on you for modifying your brake system in an unsafe manner. 

You don't have to remove the entire screws to release the proportioning valve, just the heads. the screws holding the proportioning valve on the beam are flatheads. Just drill off the heads the same way you release a pop rivet with a drill bit slightly larger than the diameter of the screws, then remove the brake lines and slide the proportioning valve off the remaining threads of the screws. Then you can grap the threads with some vicegrips and turn them out by hand, if they aren't finger tight. 

The proportioning valve is a block of aluminum. If you can't figure out how to drill out the screw heads, simply saw off the end of the block that holds the screw heads.


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## EuroSportChicago (Jun 9, 2010)

greyhare said:


> Glad it worked for you. Keep bin mind if something does happen you are setting yourself up for ugly liability if the other guy's insurance finds out.
> 
> Why does everyone want to cut the old valve off. Drill the bolts on the car and replace. No cutting, no welding. A 90 degree drill may make it easier.


 i doubt they would find out about it; and If they did they would have to prove you knew.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

EuroSportChicago said:


> i doubt they would find out about it; and If they did they would have to prove you knew.


 So you're saying that if you want to be able to deny prior knowledge, you should never admit in public (ie on the Internet) that your knew of, or did it yourself? 

I think that ship has sailed in this case...


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## EuroSportChicago (Jun 9, 2010)

germancarnut51 said:


> So you're saying that if you want to be able to deny prior knowledge, you should never admit in public (ie on the Internet) that your knew of, or did it yourself?
> 
> I think that ship has sailed in this case...


 Internet saves everything; but IDK if they would look that far. When i crashed and totaled my car before they never looked into anything on me.


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## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

if you claim "my brakes failed" then they may call in investigators to get a cause down on paper..basically nobody gets charged unless there's an obvious safety hazard that the driver should have known about (usually bald tires, etc) . Cars aren't on rails, and with the best brakes in the world crashes happen. Cops don't care, get it cleared away and find out who is at fault.I know, its my job. 

basically....your saying that making your brakes identical to those of an mk2 (with non load sensing prop valves) makes you liable for an accident. Then would driving an mk2 with stock brakes make you liable as well? 

sure the load sensing valve is a bit of an advantage but lets not lose touch on reality here. its not like your responsible if you have cheaper tires or cheaper suspension components that may not be as good. their still legal.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

If you chose to alter the brake system, then you are taking responsiblity for the safe operation of the brake system, VW would no longer be liable. That means that if the brakes failed, and you are responsible for the design and maintenance of the brake system, and with working brakes the accident would not have occured, then the fault for the accident it yours. 

That is how the Plantiff's Lawyers are going to argue, you would have to get a Lawyer to fight it out in Court, and even if you win the Court battle, you will lose, because you will be paying for your Lawyer. Which is why if you have Insurance, the Insurance Company will look at the Lawsuit, pay as little as required to get out, and leave you holding the tag for the balance of the cost of your science experiment. 

It's your car, arguing with others to justify your position is not going to help you if the time comes that you have an accident. People are trying to show you the error in your thinking. It's on you to pay either way.


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## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

this reminds me of a car my buddy was trying to restore. Same situation, bad prop valve. Problem was they no longer made that prop valve, couldn't get it anywhere. Should he scrap the car in fear of a lawsuit? no, he got a universal adjustable prop valve. brakes work great. 

i've went on to some snow covered back roads to see how my car responds in a panic brake situation..i think it stops straighter than before :thumbup: 

A few threads i've read on here dealing with the prop valve, drilling didn't work in either case. just a few dead drill bits and soar arms, but the valve never moved. the bolt corrodes inside the prop valve in to an un-movable mess.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

When a car is no-longer safe to drive, and suitable replacement parts (new, used or rebuilt) to make it safe to drive are no longer available it's time to retire the car. 

You don't have to drill the whole screw out, you just have to remove the head. Once you do that, there's nothing holding the valve in place, except for rust. Then, you can spray PB Blaster onto the remaining screw threads (and it will hit all of the threads since there isn't any head in the way), and pound it off with a hammer 

I guess we're lucky here on the West Coast. No extreme rust except for those who live on the beach (that's the price they pay). Proportioning valves don't rust to the screws here, they come right off.


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## blubullet509 (Oct 15, 2007)

I run those mk2 proportioning valves on my mk3 as well and they work great. When my abs pump went out, i converted to non abs mastercylinder and since my car had no rear proportioning valve (it was in the abs valve body) I went with the mk2 ones.
They work great, and I dont pull a boat so I dont think the level sensing means anything since theres never anything in the back of my car, except gas.


You could just as easily not put pads in your caliper correctly, or leave air in your brake lines. I mean whos going to go out and run in to someone and be like "I have mk2 proportioning valves"


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