# Zeitronix ZT-2? AEM Uego? Innovate?



## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm in the middle of a long drawn out process of building a MKIV 12v VRT.
I'm asking for opinions. Experience is appreciated. I know this question has been asked in similar form before, but I didn't find the info I want.
What would you choose?
Zeitronix ZT-2 so you can datalog and have all your important sensor readings (AFR, boost, EGT, oil pressure, fuel pressure, water temp) on one little box? Simple display?
Or a piller pod/column gauge pod with appropriate gauges and an AEM UEGO? Cool gauges all over?
Or an Innovate LC-1? Does this have any advantages over the Zeitronix? 
Another question is: How many sensor inputs can you have on the Zeitronix at one time? I've been reading up and it seems like you can have all of them hooked up at once, but I'm not sure. 
Thanks for any input.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

I have a new Zeitronix that I am very happy with, the new 2010 model includes an extra sensor input too. All of them log at the same time, I have AFR/RPM/TPS/EGT/MAP/Meth Pressure/Oil Temps and my DashDAQ has 2 intake temp sensors and does all the display and datalogging. I have there alarm relay hooked up to cut off my EBC and open a pop-off valve when values exceed what I think is over the limits. 
LC1 does only wideband but you can daisy chain off there other sensor blocks/dataloggers if you want to run a ton of external sensors.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*

Zeitronix FTW...5 years in my car never a problem...
and FYI any wide band that needs a "free air calibration" ffrom time to time is junk


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

I respect that. I'm kinda leaning towards the Zeitronix. It seems like the most bang for the buck. Let me ask you this, do you still have gauges? Say a boost gauge for "on the fly" monitoring? I dunno. I know it's a little cheesy but I kinda think the pillar pod gauges look cool...
Any other opinions / experience?


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## mk4vrjtta (Feb 3, 2007)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_Zeitronix FTW...5 years in my car never a problem...
and FYI any wide band that needs a "free air calibration" ffrom time to time is junk









not necessarily junk, but if i knew i had to do that with my innovate one i wouldnt have bought it.


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## MrMoon (Dec 23, 2008)

*Re: (mk4vrjtta)*

zeitronix is nice
and the aem can data log as well its just not as easy to setup as the other two


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## hiatussk8rs (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (MrMoon)*

zeitronix 

thats what ima run ... read stuff in a mag a while back for the price and what it does its pretty awesome alot of DSM guys use it also


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Zeitronix ZT-2? AEM Uego? Innovate? (vdubtoews)*

there is a website that did testing of the various systems for install, sensor accuracy, and a few other items. people who are complaining about certain sensors may have a mouth full of shoe after seeing the results.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: Zeitronix ZT-2? AEM Uego? Innovate? (TBT-Syncro)*

bla bla bla....sure i'm pulling the sensor out to do a free air check...how about no
One screen or gauge and all the data logging and info you need in one package...Thats my opinion..and 3 cents on this


_Modified by Salsa GTI at 12:43 PM 2-4-2010_


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Zeitronix ZT-2? AEM Uego? Innovate? (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_bla bla bla....sure i'm pulling the sensor out to do a free air check...how about no

mine's been in my car for 2 1/2 years, only did the calibration once when it was new. it hasnt needed it since.
although i'd sooner have an accurate sensor that i need to calibrate once in awhile, rather than a slow acting, non accurate sensor that some of the other kits offer.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: Zeitronix ZT-2? AEM Uego? Innovate? (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_there is a website that did testing of the various systems for install, sensor accuracy, and a few other items. people who are complaining about certain sensors may have a mouth full of shoe after seeing the results.









Those tests were focused entirely on Tuning and contained mostly subjective scoring results (ease of use/software/display but not not overall features???), they didnt document there procedure very well and from what I gather it appears as if they were using the analogue output for display on analogue gauges and using that as a factor for judging accuracy on everything but the LC-1. Yet still the ZT-2 was with the rest of the pack and they apparently didnt care about anything other than wideband output for tuning as they ignored any other features. 
most of us are already tuned and just wanting to monitor our tune, reliably.. I weighed heavily the LC-1 and ZT-2, one of the things that leaned me towards the ZT-2 was a ton of reports of LC-1 failures and poor support/warranty...
The deciding factor for me was when I sent an email to both Inno and Ztx asking some questions, Inno never responded and Ztx replied quickly, I ended up holding on a nice long email conversation with Zeitronix which I found quite informative and pleasant... they even send me detailed docs of there communication protocol so I can now write my own logging/monitoring/configuration tools.. Cant beat Zeitronix support, service and features.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

I've used and sold tons of LC1's and only had one 'bad' one. The heater circuit showed an error after the first warmup cycle. The RMA process from Innovate was probably the smoothest of any company I've dealt with.


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

Well fellas, I did a little more reading. Still undecided.
TBT-syncro were you referring to this webpage: http://www.fordmuscle.com/arch...x.php ???
Because you need to pay for a subscription to actually see the results. Maybe someone would like to post them







. What is your preference? You said so and so will have a mouthful of shoe…..well that doesn’t help make a decision on which one to get. I ask you what are you using and how have you found it? Pros? Cons?
Free air calibration doesn’t seem like it would be a big deal. You’d probably only have to do it once every year or two at most… but then you could compensate your reading for having a worn sensor…. Which would be a good thing for highest accuracy…
I dunno. I’m leaning towards the Zeitronix, but when my wife says I can buy some ess I want to make sure I’m spending my hard earned money in the wisest, most educated fashion possible.
What can either the innovate or AEM do that zeitronix can’t do?
Does AEM or Innovate do certain things (hook up, install, sensor compatibility, reading accuracy, display etc) better that Zeitronix?
I love this discussion. Let’s keep it going


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubtoews)*

These results seem fairly inconclusive to me but here is some info:
Listed below, from A to Z, are the eight meters we tested. All use the Bosch
LSU4 wideband oxygen sensor. There was a surprising amount of variation between the various units, in terms of both accuracy and response time. We also rated the ease of use, display, and included software. The participants were AEM, Dynojet, FAST, FJO, Innovate, NGK, PLX, and Zeitronix. 
AEM
The AEM unit was accurate during our tests, but with no real data logging capability, of limited usefulness for actual tuning. It was average for response time.
AFX (NTK)
The NTK unit exhibited low scores for accuracy, and it was missing the
required wire for analog output. It does not have data logging
capabilities. Considering NTK makes their own wideband sensors, it is a surprise this unit ships with a Bosch sensor.
Dynojet
The Dynojet unit was hard to set up,and the included logging software was very limited. The Dynojet exhibited the slowest response time tested.
FAST
The FAST unit had internal very limited. The Dynojet exhibited the
slowest response time tested. datalogging, but no logging analysis
software. This made it less useful for real tuning. Setting up the analog outputs was somewhat difficult. Display is nice and intuitive.
FJO
The FJO unit had tricky wiring for the sensor, the controller, and the analog outputs. It was also difficult to setup the analog outputs with the included configuration software. The included logging software was counterintuitive.
Innovate
The Innovate unit was accurate, exhibited the fastest response time,
and included very good analysis software. Innovate claims to be the
only truly digital unit, and the high accuracy and low latency seem to
support their claims. Setup and wiring was complex and somewhat confusing.
PLX
The PLX M300 does not include logging software, and exhibited accuracy at +/1 AFR (the worst tested). 
Zeitronix
The Zeitronix exhibited accuracy of +/- .54 AFR, and gradual lean drift under some conditions. The included logging software was relatively difficult and lacked features.



_Modified by vdubtoews at 2:06 PM 2-4-2010_


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

http://moto.nayr.com/lib/FordMuscle.pdf <-- is the article TBT is casually referring to.. No promise how long i'll keep that link alive people reading this from the future








the LC-1 only does wideband only you have to piggy back off other Inno devices to add additional sensor support, the wideband's end up farthest down the chain and the more sensors you add and devices you chain the more likely its response/accuracy will get knocked down a few notches. 
Its not only reports of faulty LC-1's (that seems to have to been a bad batch thats been mostly gathered up by now, but might be some still floating around unsold on shelves), its the reports that the sensors them selves seem to prematurely expire, of course this could all be end-user issues but I see alot of people recommending puting a spacer on Inno's sensors and nobody doing the same for Ztx.
They all use the same Bosh sensor though, the same you'll find newer VW's.
If all you want is a Digital Wideband reading, then really choose whatever you want.. the Inno will proably be a good choice.. If you want more than wideband reading, like EGT/MAP/RPM etc, because the stock ECU is just too damn slow then I say ZT-2 all the way.. 
If budget is a big issue then check out http://14point7.com/ for some great DIY and inexpensive solutions.


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## CorvetteKillerVr6 (May 9, 2007)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*

I run Innovate and love it!
lc-1 all the way


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dreadlocks* »_http://moto.nayr.com/lib/FordMuscle.pdf <-- is the article TBT is casually referring to.. No promise how long i'll keep that link alive people reading this from the future









thats the one. i couldnt remember where it was posted it, as the computer that i had the link on, died.
thanks for posting it.
i think the one point to take away from that article, is that there are no bad choices, just some choices that are better than others.


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## cant get a password (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

I have the zeitronix as well and like it a lot a cheap loging option for it is this with a pda.
http://www.pocketlogger.com/index.php?pid=plzt


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

TBT-Syncro, I understand your arguement, now which one are you argueing for? I read a lot of your posted info on here so I respect the opinion


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

One thing I've noticed with the Innovate is that they always match the more expensive O2 systems that are present at most dyno locations. Not sure about the other brands.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

My wetronics matches the 2 local dyno's we have here....as long as the probe is in the downpipe ....2 inches from my wide band sensor....a tail pipe sniffer is a tad slower...obviously....
I liked it for datalogging fuel and EGT...it was verry helpful before the standalone..
Use which ever one you like...but the point is to use one.....no forced induction car should be without one...well in a perfect world


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## vdubtoews (Jan 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*

I found a cool deal on an innovate LC-1 with XD-16 gauge kit. I need to know how well this system works.
I can get the entire kit used for 200 bucks and I would like to know if this is a good deal or not.
Please advise.
-Dave


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

The LC1 without the gauge MSRPs for 199 so that's a good price with the XD16 and a sensor.


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## Weiss (Jun 21, 2004)

*Re: Zeitronix ZT-2? AEM Uego? Innovate? (vdubtoews)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubtoews* »_I'm in the middle of a long drawn out process of building a MKIV 12v VRT.
I'm asking for opinions. Experience is appreciated. I know this question has been asked in similar form before, but I didn't find the info I want.

*Zeitronix ZT-2 so you can datalog*

First part, I've been using the AEM UEGO in our van for 3 years... it has given us only one problem, that's intermittent as well. In cold conditions it will go back to reading lambda instead of digitally put AFR and revert. 
However, I bought another one for the GTI and it's been in for 1 year. Works flawlessly. Only problem, the damn bezel needed to be unscrewed because I have it mounted on the steering column. A simple modification of the column pod to bring it back a tad will allow me to reinstall the bezel (and the anti-glare lens). 
Second part, MK4 GTI's already have a WBO2 sensor from the factory... VAGCom will allow you to accurately datalog from that. 
IMO - Save your money. Buy the UEGO. By far one of the more affordable options. 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AVM-30-4100/
$199.80 this month. 


_Modified by Weiss at 4:14 PM 2-9-2010_


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Speaking of sensor calibrations from a building systems/mechanical standpoint, using Siemens/Honeywell/Trane components... calibrations typically occur every couple years and is recommended from the manufacturer. To say a sensor would not need to be re-calibrated ever seems a little odd to me.


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: (pubahs)*

I have had my Innovative LC-1 for about five years, and its still working great. The only "problem" i've had was after sitting for a long time the output reset to deafult. It has two outputs, i have one to a gauge and the other to my 034EFI. Accuracy has ben verified recently on dyno. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
FYI you do not need to remove sensor to to do a free air calibration. With motor running, rev it up, then while holding your foot on the gas shut off the motor. hold it wot until engine stops. This will put fresh air into the header for a calibration. I do a calibration every spring when i get the car out.
If I were to buy one today, I probably would get one that also does EGT. I want to add this now and buying seperate and having an extra gauge to mount adds up.










_Modified by Rocco R16V at 8:53 PM 2-9-2010_


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_One thing I've noticed with the Innovate is that they always match the more expensive O2 systems that are present at most dyno locations. Not sure about the other brands.

That's the best way to compare Widebands, instead of going by the results of a flawed group test. 
If your choice of Wideband matches a known trusted one in a dyno shop, then there's a very strong chance it's accurate. 
The best O2 I've used to date is the Motec PLM. Mainly because it has decent display filtering to get rid of the transient spikes, making it a lot easier to read on the dyno. The cheaper kits don't have this, so you end up with a display refresh rate that is too fast to be of any use.
I've also used an LC-1 and a PLX M300 and they both match the PLM, down to 0.1 AFR. God knows what they did in that group test, but the M300 certainly is not 1AFR adrift of it's competitors.
At the end of the day, all Widebands using the Bosch LSU 4.2 probe and controller will be much of a muchness.


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: (Rocco R16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocco R16V* »_FYI you do not need to remove sensor to to do a free air calibration. With motor running, rev it up, then while holding your foot on the gas shut off the motor. hold it wot until engine stops. This will put fresh air into the header for a calibration. I do a calibration every spring when i get the car out.

Or prop the throttle plate wide open and stick a hoover on the tailpipe


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (kevhayward)*

Innovate LC-1 w/ DB gauge. No issues, good price, I'm happy


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

*Re: (slc92)*

Plx devices, Have no problems.


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