# Defining Restoration Terms



## Dean F (Feb 24, 2000)

Just so everyone knows, the word restoration means, restored to original spec/european spec.
Charlie R's Rabbit is a clean example of a Restoration
Resto-Custom Is a restoration with minor mods, which includes suspension, wheels, etc
Preserved is a Car that still looks new or very close to yet has had no major paint work, cars under this name should be 10 years or older. MK4 owners, no need to post pictures of your "preserved" 2003 Jetta just because you don't drive it in the winter.
Custom; Any ground up project that transforms the car into something it never was, Audi handles, cabby kits on Rabbits, major body modifications, etc will all put that class of car into a category other than this forum.
Dean


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## charlier (Mar 9, 2001)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (Dean F)*

Thanks for defining the terms as there was sure to be confusion without the defs.


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## JastorVW (Jul 25, 2000)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (charlier)*

Generally, he's right. But I see nothing wrong with participating in this forum regardless of your final intention. If you're rescuing an old car, be it a Rabbit, Beetle, Scirocco, whatever, I think you have a place here. I don't think you should be turned away based on the final result of your time, money and effort. 
Sean
PS: Just a note. Im assuming those who are adding clipper kits, audi door handles, whatever are first going through the process of a "restoration." I.e., stripping paint, redoing interior, etc.
[Modified by JastorVW, 8:23 PM 2-16-2003]


[Modified by JastorVW, 9:36 PM 2-16-2003]


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (JastorVW)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2001)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (JastorVW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Generally, he's right. But I see nothing wrong with participating in this forum regardless of your final intention. If you're rescuing an old car, be it a Rabbit, Beetle, Scirocco, whatever, I think you have a place here. I don't think you should be turned away based on the final result of your time, money and effort. 
Sean
PS: Just a note. Im assuming those who are adding clipper kits, audi door handles, whatever are first going through the process of a "restoration." I.e., stripping paint, redoing interior, etc.
[HR][/HR]​Sean raises a good point, and I'm sure this is the one topic that will be debated to death on this forum. "Where do you draw the line on a restoration before it is simply a rebuilt custom car?"
I think everyone will have a different threshold, but the main point of all of this is to preserve the original spirit of the car in light of its place in automotive history. So, for instance, if you are "restoring" an 84 GTI, but happen to feel that it would be more enjoyable on a Neuspeed/Bilstein suspension with a Techtonics exhaust and Schirck cam, I would call those modifications historically acceptable, since those were popular mods throughout the original life of the car. Dropping a Stage 3 1.8T motor with a six-speed trans into a clean A1 body with 17" wheels and a boser hood is a different matter altogether.
Personally, the 84 GTI that I restored was not 100% accurate. I changed the color from Cashmere White to Alpine White, because I liked it better. I kept the original bumpers, but had them powdercoated matte black. The headlights were upgraded to H4's. But otherwise, it looked and felt like a brand new 84 GTI when it was done.
With my Cabriolet, I took a different restoration approach. My goal with this car was to build a Euro-spec GTI Cabriolet. So all of the Americanization was dumped in favor of a more pure version of the car. Bumpers, lights, even the badges are correct for Europe. The interior upholstery is custom, but is of a texture that and pattern that would have been common in Europe in the early 80's. Is this a restoration? Yes, in a sense, but not a 100% correct restoration. The final product ends up looking more like a restoration than a custom show car. Many of the problems I encountered on this project are the same ones you would encounter on a "true" restoration.
Let's keep an open mind. I'm sure most people who come to this forum have a genuine interest in preserving the original qualities that make our cars such icons. Let's also welcome those forward thinkers with "new" classics, such as the 337 and so on, so that these cars may be spared the careless acts that force a car to need restoration in the future.
Well, cheers to everyone so far.







Let's keep em coming








Bryan


[Modified by Bryan J, 11:30 AM 2-17-2003]


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## pastpargolf (Jul 16, 2000)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (Bryan J)*

I'm not bringing my rocco back to og spec, but most of the stuff I'm doing applys to any old resto or resto-custom VW taking it apart stipping it fixing rust, painting it.
Its very much the same work, Weather(sp) you choose Brasil Braun Met. or Audi india red.
And there dosn't need to be another forum for basicly the same thing. I think resto custom falls under preservation.


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## CarLuvrSD (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (Bryan J)*

"Corect" is another important restoration term. It means that the materials and style are exact duplicates of the original. 
My personal approach will be to utilize the best available. For instance, if I was to restore another 1980 Rabbit diesel I wouldn't use the "corect" alternator bracket. I think I replaced mine 6 times, and had to replace broken bolts on same more times than that. Why suffer if it's not going in a museum? In 81 they went to a better design that lasted as long as the engine would. 
And those window winder handles! Sheesh







I don't know if anyone has designed a better alternative but if they did I'd use it







When I had my Rabbit diesel I was a starving student and could barely afford repairs at all. I drove for a while with a window crank in the glove box so I could use it in whatever window needed adjusting. With no air those windows were going up and down all the time.
Was looking at the "Golf Citi, Life" today and noticed it comes with central locking system. If it will fit my Bunny, it's going in there!


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## scirocco16v (May 17, 2000)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (CarLuvrSD)*

When the term "restoration" comes to mind...I think of refubishing something to it's original appearance (ie. stock) and near new condition. IMO...if you paint a car a color that was not available for that car in that year...you don't have a restoration....if you have a TT downpipe and a G grind in a mint '84 GTI you've restored to a stock appearance...I'd be happy to agree that it was a restoration...sorry....but I'd say that alpine white with everything stock is less a restoration than a casmere respray and engine mods (provided the engine is the same, or near orig.... say 1.8 instead of a 1.6) If you see Dean F's car for example....the '76 Rabbit...it's not a straight restoration...it's a custom resto. Realistically though...I don't think any of us would want a stock VW restoration...there's always something from a later model or Euro spec model that makes a big...yet not far from stock difference....G grind....dual outlet manifold...larger disc brakes...you name it. Good Topic! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Keep 'em coming!


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## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2001)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (scirocco16v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...I don't think any of us would want a stock VW restoration...there's always something from a later model or Euro spec model that makes a big...yet not far from stock difference....G grind....dual outlet manifold...larger disc brakes...you name it[HR][/HR]​That's what makes this whole discussion interesting. If you consider a car like the '57 Chevy BelAir, for instance, I think it is common to see "restored" examples on chrome Cragar wheels with dual quads, Isky cams, and Hooker headers. If the body was stripped bare, all the chrome replated, and the interior redone like stock, a car like this would probably still be considered a restoration, not a custom. Granted, it would not be a stock restoration, but a restoration (custom-resto) nonetheless.
The same holds true for our VW's. Part of the fun of these cars has always been in modifying them. In the process of restoration, the urge to upgrade may take over. It's the type of modifications performed during a restoration that determine whether the final product falls into the "custom" category, or some variation of a restoration.
A lot of guys throw around the term "old school" with reference to older project cars. For me true old school falls anywhere between bone stock and "period" modification. Face it, a stock looking 84 GTI with a host of upgrades that were _common in its day_ still evokes the memories of its past greatness. I still remember a good friend whose dad drove a stock 84 GTI and his brother drove an 81 Scirocco S with Neuspeed springs and sway bars and Bilstein shocks. If someone were to restore that Scirocco back to the way it was in 1989, I wouldn't knock their restoration effort, but rather applaud them for bringing back a great car to its former glory.







At the same time, I think I would be pissed if anyone were to alter a virgin 84 GTI, like his dad's








As I said, I'm sure this debate will continue. The important thing to remember is that as long as someone has an interest in restoring an old VeeDub, regardless of their definition, that's one less Dub going to the crusher







.
Later,
Bryan


[Modified by Bryan J, 12:50 PM 2-19-2003]


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## kweetech (Apr 20, 2001)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (JastorVW)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
PS: Just a note. Im assuming those who are adding clipper kits, audi door handles, whatever are first going through the process of a "restoration." I.e., stripping paint, redoing interior, etc.
[HR][/HR]​But there's a Body Work forum for that stuff.
Let's try to keep this forum for finding info on original and rare bits, stock restorations and info, showing off your low mile finds, proper preservation techniques, resto customs (essentially cars w/ modifications that are true to the car, that could be changed back to stock with some general swapping







along the lines of the aircooled guys).....
No real custom stuff here IMO


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## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2001)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (gtiordie)*

quote:[HR][/HR]

Let's try to keep this forum for finding info on original and rare bits, stock restorations and info, showing off your low mile finds, proper preservation techniques, resto customs (essentially cars w/ modifications that are true to the car, that could be changed back to stock with some general swapping







along the lines of the aircooled guys).....
No real custom stuff here IMO[HR][/HR]​







I'm with you. There are many other forums that deal with specific issues, such as bodywork, that aren't necessarily restoration related. The focus of this forum should remain topics related to maintaining, preserving, and restoring Volkswagens of interest or historical significance.


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## JastorVW (Jul 25, 2000)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (Bryan J)*

Yeah, OK that makes sense. I think Bryan hits it more on the head than I do. 
Cheers.








Sean


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## VW-Quantum-Man (Dec 18, 2002)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (JastorVW)*

Restoration down to the correct wiper blades..... Accept the "VOLKSWAGEN" on the windsheild










[Modified by VW-Quantum-Man, 7:38 PM 3-13-2003]


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## ArpyArpad (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: Defining Restoration Terms (Bryan J)*

quote:[HR][/HR]

Let's try to keep this forum for finding info on original and rare bits, stock restorations and info, showing off your low mile finds, proper preservation techniques, resto customs (essentially cars w/ modifications that are true to the car, that could be changed back to stock with some general swapping







along the lines of the aircooled guys).....
No real custom stuff here IMO







I'm with you. There are many other forums that deal with specific issues, such as bodywork, that aren't necessarily restoration related. The focus of this forum should remain topics related to maintaining, preserving, and restoring Volkswagens of interest or historical significance.[HR][/HR]​ i think the problem with the other forum is that there is a lack of experienced people posting. its mostly people who just want to put body kits on an mk4 or whatever the most popular mod is these days. it would be good to see some of you that post here posting there as well to up the quality of posts. you can share your prepping/painting experiences because it seems to be a big topic people would like to know. just my opinion







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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