# G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold?



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

What do G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold?
As the Stock one doesn't flow all that well.
Here is what I've found to work well for an all out race engine and 2.0 Twinscrew charged Rabbits.
http://scientificrabbit.com/stage3
_Modified by ny_fam at 12:57 PM 11-8-2007_


_Modified by ny_fam at 12:51 PM 4-16-2009_


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

audi 5cylinder intake w/ extra runner cut off, coupled to a matched & ported 8v head, the rabbit uses the stock a1 intake because it probably needs to abide by its scca class rules
any airflow mod that is biased towards high rpm gains is especially tough to justify on a g60 because the stock secondary shaft and bearings tend to fail when pushed to high rpms.


----------



## LooseNut (Nov 27, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_What do G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold?
As the Stock one doesn't flow all that well.
Here is what I've found to work well for an all out race engine and 2.0 Twinscrew charged Rabbits.
http://scientificrabbit.com/in...mid=1

_Modified by ny_fam at 12:57 PM 11-8-2007_


Looks like the same modifications can apply to our manifold. But the biggest issue we face is the #1 & #2 cylinder being fed more air than 3 & 4. The goal should be to increase off boost flow which the link you posted seems to address and equalize pressure across all ports. There is a larger manifold from a 5 cyl audi that people have traditionally used but afaik, results are speculative.


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (LooseNut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LooseNut* »_ The goal should be to increase off boost flow which the link you posted seems to address and equalize pressure across all ports. 

i looked at the link, i don't see how you got here?, just looks like a ported manifold to me


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (LooseNut)*

Take a look at the G60 whp list and you'll see what works as far as intake manifolds


----------



## ButchHusky (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

So...you're going to port G60 manifolds?
Brian


----------



## the_mad_rabbit (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

Throw your stock G60 manifold into the garbage and go with any regular 8v CIS manifold- it will flow better right off the bat. 
Best possible thing you can do without having to do any porting work.
G60 manifold flows like ****. Port it... and it still flows like **** lol (should flow just as good as the stock 8v manifold after porting... not many gains there eh?).
-AJ


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (LooseNut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LooseNut* »_
Looks like the same modifications can apply to our manifold. But the biggest issue we face is the #1 & #2 cylinder being fed more air than 3 & 4. The goal should be to increase off boost flow which the link you posted seems to address and equalize pressure across all ports. There is a larger manifold from a 5 cyl audi that people have traditionally used but afaik, results are speculative.

The A1 CIS powered cars have the same issue with poor flow in cylinder #4 due to the intake manifold. Thats way when I port and test them to make sure the flow is equal in all 4 runners.
Granted I can get runner 4 to flow 25% more by porting, so I port runners 1 -3 to match. I know I could get 1 -3 to flow way more but then the balance is off. Some of this info is covered in the A1 Intake Manifold testing article on my site.
I've tried the audi 5k manifold too, but my biggest complaint is you have to destroy the intake ports on the head. My air flow tests show that the Audi 5k intake flows a bit better than the G60.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (the_mad_rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_mad_rabbit* »_Throw your stock G60 manifold into the garbage and go with any regular 8v CIS manifold- it will flow better right off the bat. 
Best possible thing you can do without having to do any porting work.
G60 manifold flows like ****. Port it... and it still flows like **** lol (should flow just as good as the stock 8v manifold after porting... not many gains there eh?).
-AJ

Agreed agreed agreed... 
An all out ported A1 will flow more than an all out ported G60. I just finished a Stage III G60 intake too.
Best A1 to just throw on is the 86 Cabrolet. Flows like 15% more than a G60.



_Modified by ny_fam at 4:16 PM 11-10-2007_


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

good to know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Obi-Lan (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Lysholm)*









After a year still under development. Should get programmable ecu first so that I could use that tps.


----------



## LooseNut (Nov 27, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Lysholm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lysholm* »_
i looked at the link, i don't see how you got here?, just looks like a ported manifold to me

Sorry, I'm wrong, I looked at the site, saw the picture and the dyno graphs. Didn't realize the graphs were for a boosted car. 
I mean to say that for a G60, the goal should be to increase off boost efficiency and equalize pressure across runners while under boost.


----------



## LooseNut (Nov 27, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (the_mad_rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_mad_rabbit* »_Throw your stock G60 manifold into the garbage and go with any regular 8v CIS manifold- it will flow better right off the bat. 
Best possible thing you can do without having to do any porting work.
G60 manifold flows like ****. Port it... and it still flows like **** lol (should flow just as good as the stock 8v manifold after porting... not many gains there eh?).
-AJ

Please explain


----------



## LooseNut (Nov 27, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_
The A1 CIS powered cars have the same issue with poor flow in cylinder #4 due to the intake manifold. Thats way when I port and test them to make sure the flow is equal in all 4 runners.
Granted I can get runner 4 to flow 25% more by porting, so I port runners 1 -3 to match. I know I could get 1 -3 to flow way more but then the balance is off. Some of this info is covered in the A1 Intake Manifold testing article on my site.
I've tried the audi 5k manifold too, but my biggest complaint is you have to destroy the intake ports on the head. My air flow tests show that the Audi 5k intake flows a bit better than the G60.


I've never flow tested an intake on a bench but I do have a background in fluids. It would seem to me that an atmospheric flow test is good for simulation of off-boost performance but a pressurized test is needed here. I would guess that cylinders 3 & 4 run richer compared to cyls 1 & 2 because of the low pressure zone at their runners. They are in close proximity to the throttle body so as velocity increases, pressure always decreases. 
The solution would be to lengthen the manifold in the direction of the throttle body to bring it away from the runners. 
But yeah, I haven't tried it yet but plan to...


----------



## Lysholm (Nov 8, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (LooseNut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LooseNut* »_Please explain









x2 i was always under the assumption that a1 manis were the worse flowing


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Best A1 to just through on is the 86 Cabrolet. Flows like 15% more than a G60.

I second that. The later cabrio intake manifold is the best of the A1 8V CIS intake manifolds. With porting they're even better.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (LooseNut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LooseNut* »_
I've never flow tested an intake on a bench but I do have a background in fluids. It would seem to me that an atmospheric flow test is good for simulation of off-boost performance but a pressurized test is needed here. I would guess that cylinders 3 & 4 run richer compared to cyls 1 & 2 because of the low pressure zone at their runners. They are in close proximity to the throttle body so as velocity increases, pressure always decreases. 
The solution would be to lengthen the manifold in the direction of the throttle body to bring it away from the runners. 
But yeah, I haven't tried it yet but plan to...

Here is alternate theory how this may work with compressible fluid?(air). The plenum works as an air source for each of the runners to draw from. The volume of the plenum is several times more than the cylinder it will be filling, so there is plenty of air. Then on a charged app the plenum acts like a air pressure tank for any given runner when its valve opens. I'd suggest having the tops of the runners facing the TB may have an air flow advantage, but I believe that having the proper bell mouth at the top of each runner more beneficial and would suggest thats why we see custom high performance intake manifolds with internal trumpets.
It would also seem that having high boost pressure would indicate the charger can supply more air than the restricted intake system will allow into the cylinder. 15 PSI boost pressure doesn't mean 15 PSI in the cylinder at BDC, that would be wonderful if it did thought








So my theory continues, with all things being equal, if an improvement in the intake tract is made an reduction in boost pressure may be seen. The engine will make more power even though the boost pressure is less.
Is this theory on track?
Cheers
ny_fam


----------



## Obi-Lan (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_
Here is alternate theory how this may work with compressible fluid?(air). The plenum works as an air source for each of the runners to draw from. The volume of the plenum is several times more than the cylinder it will be filling, so there is plenty of air. Then on a charged app the plenum acts like a air pressure tank for any given runner when its valve opens. I'd suggest having the tops of the runners facing the TB may have an air flow advantage, but I believe that having the proper bell mouth at the top of each runner more beneficial and would suggest thats why we see custom high performance intake manifolds with internal trumpets.
It would also seem that having high boost pressure would indicate the charger can supply more air than the restricted intake system will allow into the cylinder. 15 PSI boost pressure doesn't mean 15 PSI in the cylinder at BDC, that would be wonderful if it did thought








So my theory continues, with all things being equal, if an improvement in the intake tract is made an reduction in boost pressure may be seen. The engine will make more power even though the boost pressure is less.
Is this theory on track?
Cheers
ny_fam 

Well I think so. Atleast idea is. I think there are three main variables, pressure, airflow and air density. And also air velocity is something to think too I think.
In my project I was planning to lengthen plenum from both ends and find a way to slow down air velocity from throttle body so that all air wont rush pass first runner. I think my problem is that tb diameter is too big vs plenum diameter.
And I agree that bell mount shape at top of the runner is important. Air needs to go smoothly into runners and not to stay stirring around plenum.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Obi-Lan)*

Depending on how much room you have to work with you could build a neuspeed like TB adapter place like 2" thick. this will make the plenum a bit larger on the TB side.
OR just build a custom manifold


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_
OR just build a custom manifold

But who would buy one....unfortunately for most the 8V's time to shine came and went about 15 years ago







.If you want a nice intake manifold get one from an early 5000S Turbo.They place the throttle body facing the drivers side fender as opposed to the MC-1 which faces it @ the passenger side.
Of course you could always get a 3A/2E cylinder head,chop a NF lower intake manifold from a 1988 Type 89 B3 and build your own custom upper manifold.


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Wizard-of-OD)*

feed intake from both ends







two throttle bodies







just Y off the G60 to a left and right intercooler or heck throw two G60's on and feed each side of the intake manifold









mr fluid dynamics guy: what about the fuel rail and the batch injection; any chance since the fuel rail is fed from #4 to #1 (where the fpr is) that there could be a drop in fuel to #1 when all 4 injectors are fired at once?
one of these days we'll get to the bottom of why #1 cylinder tends to lean out. I'm still with a combination of fuel rail and intake manifold design.


----------



## LooseNut (Nov 27, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (mrkrad)*

I'll have an answer this spring.


----------



## CrankWorkOrange (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (LooseNut)*

is there any scientific evidence that cis mani flows better than g60 one?







i mean stock to stock.. is it a direct replacement too?
thanx!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (CrankWorkOrange)*

Sure - read through this article.
http://scientificrabbit.com/in...mid=1
Its not perfect but darn close.


----------



## CrankWorkOrange (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Sure - read through this article.
http://scientificrabbit.com/in...mid=1
Its not perfect but darn close.


damn, i was browsing scientificrabbit.com last nite and somehow failed to find this comparison page lol
thanx http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## europeanplates.com (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (CrankWorkOrange)*

So with all the people looking at this thread and a ton of G60 owners why has no one build a manifold? 
Tyler


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (europeanplates.com)*

I'm planning on it.
Aluminum runners with CF plenum.


----------



## where_2 (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_I'm planning on it.
Aluminum runners with CF plenum.

Make it like a VWMS or Schrick with multi-length runners while you're at it Derek. Never hurts to have more bottom end torque.


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_I'm planning on it.
Aluminum runners with CF plenum.

hmmm....now you have my attention http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif when do you imagine these will be available/tested? 
Does the A1 manifold bolt up to the G60 head?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Screwed G60)*

Yes the A1 Bolts to the head but there is a question with the Vacuum lines and such that the G60 has. Like what else bolts to the front of the manifold?
any one have pictures of a G60 intake and its various connectors?
I'll post up ones for an A1 and we can see how and where to accommodate the G60 connector needs with the A1 .



_Modified by ny_fam at 1:42 AM 11-12-2007_


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*









I have a silenced Lysholm on my rado so it wouldn't be the best example of how the stock mani would look....here is the diagram from VagCat http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Screwed G60)*

http://scientificrabbit.com/im...b.jpg 
By the looks of thing the brackets on the front will be the biggest issue. Are the locations for those brackest important or is there some room for movement? (up/down/left or right) 
Then drill and tap a vac line on the top left side of plenum.(near the #10)
Is bolt #13 used for anything?(on runner #1)
The TB will bolt right up, and manifold will mate to the head just right too, mount a block off plate over the A1 cold start valve and your done.


----------



## aussieg60 (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

*2* manifolds exist for G60
*1. 037 133 201 N >>PG 054053
2. 037 133 201 AD >>PG 054054*
What are the differences and do they both flow poorly ? I did read somewhere that the AD is a better one, anyone know ?


----------



## aussieg60 (Sep 25, 2006)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (aussieg60)*

Whats even more confusing is the only number on my manifold is *037 133 223*








Sorry for going slightly off topic, I was just trying to identify the different G60 mani's


----------



## moonstation 2000 (Jun 25, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (aussieg60)*

Very interesting, I bought a g60 intake manifold to use on my TDi, but now I guess I bought it too early. Wish I had read this earlier. Still not sure which is best though, for a booosted application.
Audi 5000
Audi 5000 Turbo
Mk1


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (moonstation 2000)*

5000 turbo 5 cylinder.
for all that work you could probably just make a custom log manifold if you had the skills


----------



## europeanplates.com (Nov 23, 2002)

ny_fam

Would be more then interested. Keep us posted.
Tyler


----------



## CrankWorkOrange (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (europeanplates.com)*

is there any benefit of going with ported cis mani on ported head but with stock valve size? i started porting my head the other day and im also getting rabbit mani, wondering how much porting is enough - dont wanna spend all that time porting for nothing. thanx!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

Ok,
Sourced an A1 intake manifold from an 86 Cabrio.
Anyone know what do I need to do to get it to work on my G60?
tia!


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (CrankWorkOrange)*

Sure port the intake
The stock head already outflows the intake manifold.
Stock size valves can still flow like 160 - 170 CFM with out to much trouble.


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Sure port the intake
The stock head already outflows the intake manifold.
Stock size valves can still flow like 160 - 170 CFM with out to much trouble.


When you say the stock head out flows the manifold - are you referring to just the A1 manifold or does it outflow the G60 manifold as well?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Baummy)*

Yes stock head out flows A1 and G60 intake manifolds. G60 intake manifold flows less than A1 intake manfold.
Stock G60 hydro head flows about the same as the Stock A1 big valve head.


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

seriously how hard would it be to make a box intake back there? heck mold it out of a stock one out of a composite/carbon fibre








why do you have to have 4 runners anyways? why not just have one big oval one going to a nice box. i'm talking on boost. my physics sucks







one would think if you went way overboard on VOLUME it overcome the many of the problems eh? throw a ton of boost on top of it to keep the volume filled all the time


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_
for all that work you could probably just make a custom log manifold if you had the skills

Thats always another option for those who dont want that OEM look.








I am sure I can get Jim to cook up a batch if we got enough people interested.


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Wizard-of-OD)*

I have seen 5 different styles of G60 manifolds, some with the same numbers.
Is is a must to have a homebuild manifold?
I was lucky to scource a VWM one, otherwise I think about building one myself.
With the VWM one on my engine I still see a upgoing boostcurve in the end. So no problems.
The biggest challenge is the headwork. If you want something take a xflow head. I'm stuck with the 8V head there isn't much more to get out of it then I have right now.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (GTI1-G60)*

Well to get max flow yes you need a properly designed and tested intake manifold.
A properly designed IM will make the head flow better at all lifts, then with proper wave tuned runners and plenum more power is available yet.
Stage III ported IM will make the head flow better than stock. I've done air flow tests to prove this while developing the stage III porting process.
Have a picture of the VWM manifold?


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

can i eat off your engine bay


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_can i eat off your engine bay









The way it should be!
No matter how it's been done, what has be done. I always love to see a engine bay with some TLC.
(not only in cars)


----------



## Screwed G60 (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Thats always another option for those who dont want that OEM look.








I am sure I can get Jim to cook up a batch if we got enough people interested.









that is HOT







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
custom, ported, A1....either way, I just want to have something that will be able to keep up better with the PP head I am having made http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_
Have a picture of the VWM manifold?


Picture a Stock intake manifold with PAPER THIN intake ports.Peter Stark (SciroccoR) is the only member I know that had original VWMS engines.Send him a pm and see if he can post the pictures he has.


----------



## FaTT mk1 (Feb 24, 2005)

Are we trying to solve a problem that dont exist? shurley with the air being forced in, the problem is going to be getting it back out the engine? im running a standard A1 gti manifold on my g60 and making 270+ hp. 


_Modified by FaTT mk1 at 2:55 PM 11-17-2007_


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: (FaTT mk1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FaTT mk1* »_Are we trying to solve a problem that dont exist? shurley with the air being forced in, the problem is going to be getting it back out the engine? im running a standard A1 gti manifold on my g60 and making 270+ hp. 

_Modified by FaTT mk1 at 2:55 PM 11-17-2007_

The problem is flow bench proven. Your results are clearly an exception and I'd love to hear more. It's hard to believe you wouldn't see signifcant improvement with one of Derek's manifolds. 300hp?


----------



## FaTT mk1 (Feb 24, 2005)

im restricted by my gray injectors (which have now given up) im running a 69mm tooth belt kit and eurospec head. theres someone on this thread with even more power from 8v g60 with a vwms inlet. ive thought about having a manifold built with stacks ect ect but i just dont think ill see a big enough gain. Most of the big power 8v g60 ive seen run factory style inlets.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (FaTT mk1)*

Can you fit larger injectors in the stock holders?

_Quote »_im restricted by my gray injectors (which have now given up) 



_Modified by ny_fam at 3:29 AM 11-19-2007_


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: (FaTT mk1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FaTT mk1* »_ Most of the big power 8v g60 ive seen run factory style inlets. 

My mani is factory style, infact it's plain old factory. Just heavily ported by ny_fam:


----------



## jettag60 (Nov 2, 2005)

for those of us that don't really understand all this can someone make a list of the best>worst manifolds?
ie custom>A1>stock g60 etc et
also the audi 5000 (- 1 runner) is NOT a good idea??
what is the absolute best OEM bolt on......which A1 IM??? 
thanks


----------



## vwrenegade (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (jettag60)*

Just Felt like throwing my 2 cents in. I am currently building a "supercharged" 8v engine, and my intake manifold is from Techtonics Tuning from like 6 or 7 years ago...I believe it is from an audi, but there is no insignia on it no markings or anything...but i did run it on a NA 2.0 "worked" 8v...you could hear it suck from a mile away. the increased flow was insane. problem was that due to no turbo or supercharger it took forever in RPM's to hit the power band. 
My point is if you call techtonics I'm sure they would explain what it is they used to sell. i wish i had a picture of it...the plenum actually is over the valve cover due to the runners curving forward more than a stock one. FYI 6 or 7 yrs ago i was informed that they had to search the warehouse for this manifold...that they didn't make it anymore back then...i was given the impression that it was one of the last ones. Has any one thought to make a custome manifold out of plasitc??? That would make it very easy to change runner lengths and plenum diameters??? Just a thought. Good luck on your intake quest>


----------



## corradogirly (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: (vwrenegade)*









I had the intake made to flow mid and that it does. I had clearance issues though. Throttle body hit booster and brake resevoir, hence why its moved to the cowl area. Gonna have a different one made shortly.


----------



## jettag60 (Nov 2, 2005)

*Re: (vwrenegade)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwrenegade* »_Just Felt like throwing my 2 cents in. I am currently building a "supercharged" 8v engine, and my intake manifold is from Techtonics Tuning from like 6 or 7 years ago...I believe it is from an audi, but there is no insignia on it no markings or anything...but i did run it on a NA 2.0 "worked" 8v...you could hear it suck from a mile away. the increased flow was insane. problem was that due to no turbo or supercharger it took forever in RPM's to hit the power band. 
My point is if you call techtonics I'm sure they would explain what it is they used to sell. i wish i had a picture of it...the plenum actually is over the valve cover due to the runners curving forward more than a stock one. FYI 6 or 7 yrs ago i was informed that they had to search the warehouse for this manifold...that they didn't make it anymore back then...i was given the impression that it was one of the last ones. Has any one thought to make a custome manifold out of plasitc??? That would make it very easy to change runner lengths and plenum diameters??? Just a thought. Good luck on your intake quest>

plastic? you know it RIGHT above the exhaust right....


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (jettag60)*

Maybe not plastic, but atleast a synthetic material with a high melting point. Could always incorporate a heat shield of some sort between the two manis


----------



## FaTT mk1 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Can you fit larger injectors in the stock holders?


Yes ive now got some bigger cc ones.


----------



## FaTT mk1 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (Andrew Stauffer)*

Some good porting there, its hard to get all the way down in there, did you get any power runs before and after to see the gain? 
Ill try and get pics of my mani and eurospec head up soon.


----------



## vwrenegade (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (jettag60)*

Yes i am quite aware of the exhaust manifold being right there...my thinking would be with the right heat sheild, and the right plastic you could do it. plus your inventing sh*t trial and error or a little R& D like i said "just throwing my 2 cents" in. i'm sure there is someone out there that works in plastics and might come across this thread and question why they didn't do it before.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (vwrenegade)*

Someone should put together a plastic exhaust manifold that lasts... I'll be doggone impressed!!!








PS: Happy Thanksgiving day all (well in about 3 hours)... well at least for all but the poor turkeys


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

inconel exhaust
carbon fibre intake
should work great


----------



## hoooboy (Jul 7, 2006)

*Re: (mrkrad)*

someone should sell me the best intake manifold for my G60!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ButchHusky (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (hoooboy)*

OK, has someone bolted up the A1 manifold to their G60 engine yet?
Brian


----------



## 1.9..16vTurbo (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: (ButchHusky)*

porting an 8v head is like taking a prostitute out to dinner, in the end you know what you're gonna get and you'll still be dissapointed.


----------



## Majsha (Apr 7, 2006)

*Re: (ButchHusky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ButchHusky* »_OK, has someone bolted up the A1 manifold to their G60 engine yet?
Brian

Yes I have but still not running. We´ll see in the spring what is the outcone.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (1.9..16vTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.9..16vTurbo* »_porting an 8v head is like taking a prostitute out to dinner, in the end you know what you're gonna get and you'll still be dissapointed.

Interesting quote-
Not sure I agree though. I think a ported 8v head make a surprising amount HP over stock. Boosted and all motor.
Guess its all relative - its not going to give you more than double digit increase in power by its self.


----------



## Tommy D (Oct 10, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*









Here is an interesting manifold/ plenum. I dont have any info on it, but it looks like it may have individual throttle bodys for each runner.
I also looks like there would not be much clearance between the intake and firewall.


_Modified by Tommy D at 9:54 PM 11-29-2007_


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: (Tommy D)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tommy D* »_








Here is an interesting manifold/ plenum. I dont have any info on it, but it looks like it may have individual throttle bodys for each runner.
I also looks like there would not be much clearance between the intake and firewall.

_Modified by Tommy D at 9:54 PM 11-29-2007_

There is no clearence thats for sure.
But with a wilde cam this is the only way to go.
It's alway something thats on my mind.
Only I have brought the engine more backwards in the engine bay and lowert it a bit. About 2 inch back and 1,5 inch down...
My problem with the 300degree VWM cam is the low revving backfire behaviour. To get the car on a stady 950rpm (for emission tests) it has a very nasty run, engine doesn't seem to like it. The sound is a bit like a Harely Davidson with a bad temper.








And it has to be compensated with blowing fuel..and thats not handy for the emissiontest...

And if anybode knows who had build this engine? Please let me know.


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (GTI1-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI1-G60* »_
And if anybode knows who had build this engine? Please let me know.

For some reason I always think of Sorg Motorsport when I see that picture


----------



## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

Send the stock one to Extrude Hone in LA. It's a little pricey, but the results are very good. I want to say $300 ish.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (L8 APEKS)*

Custom IM design considerations;
The stock IM forces the 3rd and 4th runners to have a significant bend, not the greatest for flow, and makes constriction more complex.
Is there room in the stock setup G60/Corrado to have the Plenum abut 3.5" longer on the right side? This would force the Throttle body over 3.5" too.
What fitment issues would there be?
I see the coil may need to move a tad, but looks doable, any other issues?


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

I dont see any major concern. Obviously new piping would need to be fabricated.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Baummy)*

ANyone with up close shots of the Corrado G60 piping near the TB?
Wonder How much new piping is needed and if the new bends required will end up being a restriction unto them selves.


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

Not the best pic, but you can see whats there atleast. This is a lysholm setup with the boost return deleted and an atp ISV reroute.











_Modified by Baummy at 1:20 PM 12-16-2007_


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Baummy)*

This is how VWM did there job on the works Rallye golf engine.
Take the big bore "stock" intake and port it.








And the rest of the intake is not for your eyes to be seen.
(I don't have more pic's)
And use a decent head with it.








And use some big valves...








A good way to make high numbers.









_Modified by GTI1-G60 at 11:09 AM 12-16-2007_

_Modified by GTI1-G60 at 11:10 AM 12-16-2007_


_Modified by GTI1-G60 at 11:10 AM 12-16-2007_


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (GTI1-G60)*

Nice big ports on the intake. Is there any porting of the top of the runners too? ie was the plenum top welded back on?
If not there is more air to be had by porting the tops of the runners, creating a better taper and bell mouth.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

Good big valve head work
























OEM G60 manifold with a Audi 5K gasket








G60 manifold on bottom Audi 5k on top
































This is the Solid lifter Big Valve head i currently run
















Note the Custome Larger 37mm Exhaust valves, Forced inductions needs more help on the exhaust then the intake.
I am trying to find pics of the Dual Plane manifold.. that is a great idea.
A split runner for the primary and secondary keeps the velocity high.
I current manifold i am working on is a 4" Runner with NO Plenium.
Very high velocity for big HP.
Remember hp is gained the faster you move the working fluids threw the head/combustion chamber.


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Nice big ports on the intake. Is there any porting of the top of the runners too? ie was the plenum top welded back on?
If not there is more air to be had by porting the tops of the runners, creating a better taper and bell mouth.


This is a "stock production like, we don't tell anybody that it's different" VWM intake, the have bigger runners








Still having a uprising boostlevel at the end of the powerband.
The intake is not the problem.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (GTI1-G60)*

Agreed If you have "zero" head work an intake isn't going to help much.
Stock pG head flows about 135 CFM, stock intake flows a bit less.
Add any amount of head work and/or cam and a improved intake manifold makes a difference.


----------



## Majsha (Apr 7, 2006)

Why you boys use solid lifter head rather than hydro ?


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (Majsha)*

Hydro heads can float the valves at high revs, solid ones don't (or atleast not as easily).


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (Baummy)*

yeah even with lighter valves (8v/16v/20v) you hit a wall. 
i think other than shimming and the noise of solid lifters; i'd take them over hydraulic. more fun to rev higher








of course GM makes a fool of everyone with a pushrod/lifter/big ole 2V per cylinder rig that makes insane power at stupid rpm's.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (mrkrad)*

Though with HD springs and lighter valves, a hydro head can rev to 8k with out issue.. I've only seen 1 dyno chart from an 8v that really makes more power at 8000 rpms than at 7500.








http://scientificrabbit.com/in...mid=1
For * my daily* driving reving over 7k is over rated. 
Yes honda's rev to 8500 or 9k but they don't have 8 valves








cheers
ny_fam


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

maybe bust out the titanium on the valves/lifters. i spose you could use smaller lifters too. i know the ls6 uses lifters (hydraulic) against the pushrod that are about the size of your last pinky bone. tiny.
i guess the 8v single cam profile problem is obtaining good eco-friendly low end with mad top end; which is where those v-tec boys have a clear advantage.
i guess you have to weigh the cost/benefit. most of the best 8V head/intake/cam builds are just touching a 1.8 16V head with light work/cams.
and the added benefit of the improved combustion chamber of 16v/20v lets you run more compression. this yields much broader torque curve.
while it is cool to have alot of top end; i don't think sacrificing daily driver/low end is worth that much since the g60 doesn't appreciate constant high rev dogging.


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: (mrkrad)*

I can still hit the 1% CO value for the emission test.
And someone who can fry chips can make a decent get me thru the emissionstest chip.








Shorten the valveguides, smaller valvesterns great isn't it?
Beware.
Going towards smaller valvesterns has also some disadvantage, like the heatsock of a valve will be of greater concern.
And combine it with a highrevving full boost running engine...you get the idea. Some think that the timingbelt has sliped....and causes the total waste of a engine.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (GTI1-G60)*

We Got off topic here.
The latest question at hand is:
What kind of fitment issues are there if the Custom IM plenum is about 3.5" longer on the TB side?
The idea is fabrication and air flow is better if all 4 runners can be relatively straight from head to bottom of plenum. 
So far it appears a new boost tube 1 or 2 could be needed upto the TB, and the coil may need to rotate a tad.


----------



## Tommy D (Oct 10, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

I dont think the coil will be in the way for an extention, cars with ABS will have clearance issues though. What about a spacer put inbetween the intake manifold and the throttle body to allow better flow to the #4 runner?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Tommy D)*

Have a picture of the ABS setup that will be in the way?
Ideally if the plenum is longer there can be more space between the TB and runner #4 allowing better flow. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

I have ABS in the pic I posted above, but I don't know what part of it would be in the way...


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Baummy)*

OK then it sounds like it worth a try. I'll proceed like planned and get a test fit from some local club guys.
thanks for the help
Cheers
ny_fam


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

I have a Balanced, ported Stage I G60 available. Buyer backed disappeared. IM


----------



## ButchHusky (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Any update on the custom mani you were working on?
Brian


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (ButchHusky)*

Not as fast as I would like, but what can we expect when your doing this as a hobby.
I was working on a project for a customer that would help develop the plenum and trumpet sections but he needed to put that project on hold.
Will start working on that same project but just for another customer soon. So the plenum design and first build should be done in the coming month.
I am looking for ideas on how to create a tapered runner, or source for tapered aluminum tube. About 45mm to 35mm over 15cm length.
If your possibly interested in one of these send me a PM/IM, I'd like to hear fro you. what your requirements are and be able to keep you updated.
Cheers
ny_fam


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (xtremeg60)*

Like the looks of that.
I'd expect the flat part of the ports to be on the top, where they created by the extrude process too?


----------



## noizze (Aug 19, 2003)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (xtremeg60)*

Who did the CNC machining?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (xtremeg60)*

Have any flow # with just the head then with the intake attached?
interested in seeing the difference in flow.


----------



## ButchHusky (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

I am still trying to figure out what, if anything I want to do about my intake. Stage I, Stage III or wait and see what you come up w/ as a custom option. I have no headwork at this point, but I have a 268/260 cam, decisions, decisions...
Brian


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ButchHusky)*

268/260 cam is designed for no headwork. once you work the head you need to move to a more aggressive lift cam otherwise much of your head work is wasted. 268/276 272/276







now thats a cam for the ported heads.


----------



## nextproject (Nov 18, 2007)

would it be feasible for a setup like to be emissions passable? (say a 268/272 cam with stock sized valves and one of ny_fam's stage 3 intakes, and porttuning's all out ported head? 7mm valves? all of course with a custom burned chip.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (nextproject)*

The cam is what will get you in trouble with emissions. A ported head and intake should effect emissions all that much.


----------



## nextproject (Nov 18, 2007)

i wonder what is the most cam you can use and still be emissions-test-passable (catalytic converter-equipped, of course).


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (nextproject)*

you can run any cam if they are doing the 15/25 asm you just have to inflate the tires to 45psi and run the tests at higher rpm; or have the programming for the o2 sensor tweaked because of the reversion/overlap screws the pooch with low rpm.
idle test you'd want to raise the idle up real high







we don't have that test though only 15/25mph asm moving test.
you can get any cam to pass; it just takes more work. a skilled tester can put his machine into test mode and fine the optimal rpm/mph combo


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (nextproject)*

Also a fresh head will perform better since the seats will seal much better after a tad bit of driving.


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

and a fresh cat will pass almost anything. i was thinking about attaching a cat to the end of my tailpipe and busting out a torch to heat it up then having the dude put it in the butt and see how that works. nobody said you can't run two cats or the cat can't stick out (maybe in cali they can say that but not in georgia). as long as the exhaust is past the rear axle its good.
"strap-on second cat" with a very very small size (restrictive) would help keep the backpressure up and keep it lit







hmmmm might have a product to sell/rent.


----------



## nextproject (Nov 18, 2007)

yeah here in chattanooga we just have the idle test. problem is that our gas bench/analyzer where i work at has been broken for over a year and the company (still dont want to divulge who i work for) wont get off their asses and replace it so i dont have anything to "fiddle with". im sorry i dont mean to hijack your thread, when the time comes i'll think more about it. i just was wondering if there was some kind of "cut-off" where its like "oh hell it'll never pass with more lift/duration than that". that "second cat" idea is a sound one though. i wonder how the emissions people would feel if they saw one just jammed on there, clamped down, lol, or even just slipped on the exhaust tip!


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (nextproject)*

Isn't there a fuel additive that will help pass?
I know a good tune up will help.
What if you have an adjustable cam gear. set it +2 degrees when you go to the test. Is will close the exhaust valve sooner.
Here in NY I've never seen an exhaust test done. I hear they test '96 and newer. I'm not to concerned with my 83 rabbit though. I do run a cat and regular emissions stuff so I'm not killing the planet all by my self.


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

i dont know if there is a law that says your cat has to be placed anywhere. you could take the muffler off and put the 2nd cat in place







that would throw them; yeh its a new kind of muffler, a honda 1.5LX model for that super quiet action.


----------



## raddo0125 (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: (mrkrad)*

haha no test in NY below 96. anywho the second cat.. nope no laws because a ford crown victoria uses 4 cats. (cursers have. 2 on each pipe) and you can have them anywhere you want.. the way the gov looks at it is a cat helps and all that jazz .. so all they will see is hmm hes being enviornment friendly yay he passes.. wereas you just saying go F*** yourself i want my car. and as per the placement of it. if you wanna shove it on the end go for it no law on it my suggestion is to just 1. replace the muffler. or 2. you could just get some pipe and make a ghetto bolt on for emmisions and rent it out when other people need it!







BTW if you do rent it i get 10% profit for the idea







... thats what i did for my buddys mustang. but yeah no laws or anything.. good luck


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (raddo0125)*

i was thinking of a ammonia injection dribble system to kill nox where it would drop pure ammonia into the hot exhaust to vaporize it pre-cat.
anyone know if that would really work? cut down those nox emissions. just let it dribble in. nobody in their right mind would stick around long enough to try to figure out why their eyes are bleeding


----------



## raddo0125 (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_i was thinking of a ammonia injection dribble system to kill nox where it would drop pure ammonia into the hot exhaust to vaporize it pre-cat.
anyone know if that would really work? cut down those nox emissions. just let it dribble in. *nobody in their right mind would stick around long enough to try to figure out why their eyes are bleeding*

so your suggesting foul play here? i like the way your goin with this


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (raddo0125)*

read up on how noX is removed from new diesels . should work on gasoline motors too. probably pass with no cat if you could inject ammonia into the stream and not kill yourself?


----------



## CrankWorkOrange (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (mrkrad)*

back from the dead.
would digi FOX intake mani be an improvement over stock g60 one? I hear they flow better...








thnx!


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (CrankWorkOrange)*

Yes the Fox intake with the larger TB opening flows about the same as the MK1 intake, provided you grind the poor casting just inside the runners.
Granted this is better than the G60 intake by like 5% with the same treatment.
Cheers
ny_fam


----------



## pickardaudi (Jun 2, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Why not re-locate the TB to the center of the plenum? Like the Dodge magnum or charger... To me in physics the air would be displaced more evenly through all runners. The TB would be over the valve cover centered in plenum. How about installing flat plates from the TB to each runner. Sort of like a "Power Now" on a Dirt bike. They are used to stop turbant flow of air from the intake side of the carb.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (pickardaudi)*

Relocating the TB like that may help the manifold behave more like ITB for the runners just under the TB opening.
The primary job of the plenum is to build pressure that will fill the cylinders when they need it. The rushing air through the TB opening is about 180 feet/sec, slows down in the plenum and build density. This is why to large of a TB is not good and too small is not good. Or a plenum not right size for where you want the power.
Really for your boosted engine that you want more power from you'd want a plenum to be up to 2x the engine displacement. 
BTW the G60 volume is 1.1 liters.
ny_fam


----------



## cheapmods (Mar 24, 2008)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

ok, so i read over this whole thread, but i don't feel like much headway was made. All i know is that: 
1. apparently there are better stock IMs out there that are basically direct bolt ups
2. you can port out the stock G60 one with mediocre results 
3. you can have a custom one built.

Personally, i'm most interested in the #2 statement. i've bought entirely too many parts over the last year & now here's something else!?








Now, my car isn't running. In fact, she's strewn about in a million pieces in my car port, shed, back patio, and attic







I've been buying upgrades all along & just got +2mm oversized valve set from TT. i know the TB needs p&p for better flow & i had my charger stage 4 ported from BBM...all that air going in, I KNOW the IM need SOMETHING... how much do you charge for your services?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (cheapmods)*

Stage III G60 intakes are $315 shipped, no core needed but core return appreciated.
G60 Stage III (25% more flow than stock) has the runners ported, plenum top cut off, top of runners and runner radius reshaped, top welded back on, TB area blended where needed, flow tested, media blasted or painted when requested, equal flow from each runner.
G60 Stage III has been tested to flow the same as the Audi 5000 intake.
Cheers
ny_fam


----------



## RedFuFuG60 (Jul 1, 2001)

*Re:*

I like this thread, makes me want to take my audi 5k turbo manifold & get it handled.... I have ported 3 fin charger & ported head, I could surely use better IM.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for the discussion


----------



## ButchHusky (Feb 23, 2000)

*Re: Re: (RedFuFuG60)*

I bought one of ny_fam's manifolds last year and I like it, but never had a chance to get on the dyno for solid numbers. My fuel lines going into and coming out of the rail would leak intermittently so I didn't drive it a whole lot last year. Everytime I thought I had the prob fixed, it would start leaking a week later








Brian


----------



## RedFuFuG60 (Jul 1, 2001)

*Re: Re: (ButchHusky)*

weird but last night I managed talking to someone about cutting my manifold open, I might have a take at porting the manifold all the way through


----------



## pickardaudi (Jun 2, 2005)

*Re: Re: (RedFuFuG60)*

A Fox intake from the view looks bigger and appears to be able to flow better. In one of the replies I read that it flows better by 5% so if I port the fox intake it would flow better that an A1 or would it?
Brent


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: Re: (pickardaudi)*

No the A1 can be ported to flow better than any VW 8v intake. But its really hard to say all Fox intakes flow better than all G60 intakes. I've seen some good and some poor G60, Fox and A1.
The interest in funding a good flowing core is really good for racing classes with no porting rules, like SCCA ITB. Or you don't plan on porting the intake. You'll find with race restriction rules, racers will test as many stock parts looking for the best match.
The A1 just has more beef. I've ported some 50 intakes or more, A1, A2, Fox, G60 ,ABA, 1.8T, Audi. It really doesn't matter how well it flows before porting, its ultimately the outside shape of the intake the limits its flow capabilities.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
ny_fam


----------



## RedFuFuG60 (Jul 1, 2001)

*Re: Re: (ny_fam)*

Your dyno figures on the website have given me new inspiration to play around with my manifolds now, after I ported my head I simply match ported the runners on the intake but nothing more, I think now it's time to revisit the intake http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jetg60 (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Did your price with shipping is the same for Canada or US only?
Thanks!
Phil


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jetg60)*

Shipping to Canada is more expensive, about $25 more


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Have more Stage III ported G60 intakes available.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Which is the best manifold to run that better than the stock g60?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

PM sent


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

How much are those stg3 intake mani go for?


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Hey so if i went with the stage 3 manifold im running the 30lbs injectors and bbm fuel rail will i run into any problems? and as far as the throttle body is that worth porting at all? Also i just heard about extrude hone? anyone familiar with that? i heard it suppose to work magic.


_Modified by jeffs vw at 10:33 PM 4-12-2009_


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

No issue with the injectors or fuel rail as the manifold doesn't change. Its just whats inside the manifold that changes








I don't have test results for the ported TB, but Know lots of guys running boost port the throttle body.
I'm familiar with extrude hone process. You won't get balanced flow between runners unless its ported and tested. Its not tested how much flow will increase with the extrude hone process. Races have selected a stage III ported intake over the extrude hone process.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

i think i will be hitting you up this weekend for sure to start the process unless you have one in hand i can paypal ya? let me know. thanks for all you help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

I'll get one started and let you know when its done


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Sounds fair enough. when your done you can send me your paypal address. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif So all i would need to do is put my throttle body on it? and this should mount right on to my g60 head?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Yes stage 3 G60 manifold is a direct swap. They even come with a new intake manifold gasket


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

cool hitme up when your done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Before I pass on a good deal on a audi manifold am I right in saying that the cost and benefit of using this manifold + the head work is not the best option?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Baummy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Baummy* »_Before I pass on a good deal on a audi manifold am I right in saying that the cost and benefit of using this manifold + the head work is not the best option?

If your referring to this manifold being the audi intake and head not being the best option. I think they(Audi intake and stage 3 G60) are different, and have not been back to back compared.
Yes if you install the audi intake you must enlarge the head intake port and try to create a ramp. Opening the head port is also going to greatly reduce the port velocity.
These Stage 3 G60 intakes don't require the head to be modified. And port velocity isn't greatly reduced.


_Modified by ny_fam at 6:33 PM 4-15-2009_


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

So im really trying to know if this is worth it or if im gonna lose horse power cause of air velocity?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

no this stage 3 G60 intake is tested and proven not to loose power. the above comments were to indicate that if you enlarge the head ports for the audi intake you will loose velocity.
Check with previous customers in this thread.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Cool i just didnt want to get something that is not going to work out with my application http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif thats why i was kinda questioning what the guy was saying above.....


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

So what kind of gains do you see with this stage 3 intake and stock G60 head? I see you say it flows 25% more then stock. Does this then outflow the head? In a previous post it looked like the head was only slightly behind the stock manifold.


_Modified by Baummy at 2:30 PM 4-21-2009_


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Baummy)*

Well technically the intake needs to flow more than the head so that its not a restriction at all. For super duper setups the intake needs to flow 2.2 X that of the head - all while not loosing velocity.
With a stock head - customers have reported the intake gave the same level of power increase as a cam upgrade.


----------



## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Baummy)*

Ny_fam
Regarding the possibility of a fully custom manifold: You mentioned some fitment issues when trying to design straight runners which would require the plenum to be closer to the brake booster and coil.
I was thinking that if you had a 70-80 degree elbow coming off the plenum, you could locate the throttle body next to the end of the valve cover, in a way that it is pointing to the front driver side headlight.
That would allow for straight runners and a centered plenum, as well as make the plenum volume increase. Pretty much everyone here has a sharp bend coming off the throttle body on a stock setup anyway.
See the picture below: Imagine an 70-80 degree elbow coming off the plenum, with the throttle body located just to the right of the crankcase breather. (As though that red hose coupling were going right into it).
Just a thought. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Baummy* »_











_Modified by Jettaboy1884 at 10:01 AM 4-22-2009_


_Modified by Jettaboy1884 at 10:47 AM 4-23-2009_


----------



## corradogirly (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Jettaboy1884)*

This is the intake manifold i am currently running. It was custom made by HEperformance. I have not had a chance to really drive the car with it on yet. I ran a log style manifold prior to this one and i had a lot of fitment issues with it.

I don't have any pictures of the back side of it on this computer, this was the only one i could find on my flickr that somewhat shows it.


----------



## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (corradogirly)*

That looks really damn nice!
Any more pictures of the runners, and how they enter the plenum would be great!


----------



## corradogirly (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Jettaboy1884)*

i think i have some pictures at home, if not i can take some and send them to you


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (corradogirly)*


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Well technically the intake needs to flow more than the head so that its not a restriction at all. For super duper setups the intake needs to flow 2.2 X that of the head - all while not loosing velocity.
With a stock head - customers have reported the intake gave the same level of power increase as a cam upgrade.


I have a 268/260 cam. How would this work with your intake? Is the stock cam recommended?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Baummy)*

The bigger the cam the better. Provided its a boost friendly cam. With Stock cam and stock head and stock boost the intake won't do much at all for you.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

So BBM stage 4 kit the cam that comes with that will work perfect and the head work?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Yes


----------



## corradogirly (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Jettaboy1884)*

For as many times as i've had this off the car, this is the only picture i could find of it. I dont really think it shows you what you're looking for, but i'll see if i can take some better ones this weekend.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (corradogirly)*

Pretty nice!
My Cabby runs a custom counterflow manifold as well... with plenty of flow benching to match the 42/35 head...
Head itself flows 170+ cfm on the bench. Bolting the manifold on only drops things down 3-4%...
Idle is actually more stable than the stocker ported A2 manifold...
Cost is the problem... i'd love if it I can get these done for $500-$600...
Some of my flow bench results only showed 1cfm loss... vs with the head only... so I think a zero loss counterflow manifold is possible










_Modified by Peter Tong at 10:54 AM 4-23-2009_


----------



## ryanarchy (Nov 27, 2008)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (Peter Tong)*

so i have been watching this thread and emailing scientific rabbit. they can get some really good numbers out of the manifolds they are modding. if i didnt already have a 2.1 16v long block in my recently wrecked Scirocco, i would totally get a manifold.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ryanarchy)*

i have ny_fam working on one right now for me but im slackin on getting him a throttle body to port also for my g60







my friend hasnt been home to to get it from him for me to ship. Sorry D. will get it soon.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ryanarchy)*

I need to do some development work and testing on the 16v 40 mm intake manifold. We know that the 50 mm euro version makes almost 10 more HP at the top end with loss of power at the low end.
I wonder if some porting work like the mk4 8v intakes would net more power through the power band. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4307303


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

Derek i IM you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (jeffs vw)*

i've never seen a 16V g60 that didn't have too much low end


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (mrkrad)*

i think the g60 is a way to small of a charger for a 16v! but just what i think


----------



## nextproject (Nov 18, 2007)

Just wanted to post up my positive experience in dealing with derek over the last couple weeks. i just got my st.3 intake back on the car a couple days ago and i'd like to say that hes a great guy to deal with, always communicates the status/progress of the manifolds and the thing looks GREAT! Cant speak for the performance gains because the car is still a month from being driven under boost. Thanks again derek!


----------



## Z-Raddo G60 (Nov 8, 2007)

*Re: (nextproject)*

post a pic of the stg iii mani!


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (Z-Raddo G60)*

I just sent him my mani and throttle body for porting today http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And yes Derek does communicate very well!!!!!!


----------



## Baummy (Nov 12, 2002)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Jeff - I'd like to see your results once you get everything back and installed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (Baummy)*

Will post pics and hp numbers. she be really fast especially in a rabbit


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Hey im going to be running techtonics 268/260 cam is this a good cam to run with a ported & polished head with big valves and stage 3 ported manifold?









_Modified by jeffs vw at 8:00 AM 5-28-2009_


_Modified by jeffs vw at 8:01 AM 5-28-2009_


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (Baummy)*


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

What are your choices?
I would think you'd want a higher lift cam.
You can get .450" lift on these heads with HD springs.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Im also running the heavy duty springs on this head. im just running this cam cause i bought the bbm stage 4 kit and its the same cam as techtonics 268/260.... Well hope it works out for me


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Thats a good starting point, at some point you'll want to swapin a few different cams looking for more power and "the best" tune for your setup. Thats not so say the cam you've got isn't the best for your setup.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Well what do you guys think would be the best cam for my set up? im also trying to get the most out of this g60 as far as head i have port polish big valve kit 5 angle valve job along with mani ported and tb ported. and also running a techtonics cam sproket? i want to get at least three to 4 people to have the same kinda cam in mind that they had good experinces with. also running 62mm pulley on my charger.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (jeffs vw)*

Best cam would be a Schrick 268/276 hydro... designed by Schrick specifically for the G60...
For solid lifters and a supercharged motor... looks at the G60 whp list... to see what cams were used...


_Modified by Peter Tong at 3:20 PM 5-29-2009_


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Thanks


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: G60 owners do for an improved intake manifold? (ny_fam)*

Just got my intake back looks great. Good work and shipped back fast http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sciroccoR (Dec 23, 2003)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

which is where these days?? miss ya' peter
some day soon i'll show you my scirocco. not g60 anymore. 20v. carbon and glass. but still it'll remind you of THE days. it still looks like an 1981 scirocco. MKI. the body's the same. a little flared. a little lighter. 
it's so cool to come back and see you're still the god of the blown stuff. nothing makes more sense for being DRIVEN. full boost almost all of the time. no lag, continuous contact. 
hope you're well. ping me sometime. ciao, my friend.
peter


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (sciroccoR)*

Big up to NY FAM for the bad ass intake mani he did for me. i will be dynoing my car next week will keep you posted of the numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SkootySkoo (Aug 8, 2004)

is anybody running an MK2 intake mani that puts the TB on the passenger side?


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*manifold*

does anyone know if i got a intake manifold done like corradogirly if that would make a much bigger difference over my stage 3 nyfam manifold?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

Is that its a Audi 5k intake, then the answer is no. Stage 3 ported and Modified Audi 5k flow the same.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*corradogirly*

NyFam it doesnt look like a Audi Manifold. Looks custom. pics are on page 5 of the custom manifold on this thread? I have a friend that wants to make one but i dont want to pay if its not going to make any improvment.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

My initial guess is no. The runners are not tapered and they aren't straight. And we don't know what type of bell mouth is used on top of each runner. So you end up with a 32 ID pipe about 10" long, don't see how this will be better. Though that is a very nice looking manifold. 

I know the stage 3 ported intakes are not the final say in the performance intake for the VW counter flow engine. We've been working on plans to build the final say intake manifold for the VW counter flow engine but these things take time and $ to properly develop. I think it will be a few months before we have a prototype for dyno testing done. 
Is all aluminium preferred or a combo of aluminium and carbon fiber a more desirable selection of materials? send me a PM if anyone wants to chat about this off line. 
Cheers 
ny_fam


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*G60 Intake Manifold*

I have a shop working on a custom intake Mani plenum style for my g60 rabbit im building. Seen the design on paper and im very impressed!!!! cant wait to get it on my car.

As soon as completed i will post pics.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

I hear scientific rabbit has a 8 valve counter flow manifold prototype in the works too. A comparison of the 2 different intakes would be great.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

ny_fam said:


> I hear scientific rabbit has a 8 valve counter flow manifold prototype in the works too. A comparison of the 2 different intakes would be great.


I would like to see that one also. The stage three worked great that i got from SR before. But i think the plenum style will work way better with out any lean out issue;s on cylinder one.:thumbup:


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

Agree the G60 plenum design and TB entry is not optimal. Though I've seen some posts stating the SR ported intake helps relieve some of the cylinder #1 conditions.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

ny_fam said:


> Agree the G60 plenum design and TB entry is not optimal. Though I've seen some posts stating the SR ported intake helps relieve some of the cylinder #1 conditions.


This one there making will have custom runners and we are trying to make it as straight as possible without having any fitment issues into my Rabbit. Even with a SR ported Manifold i dont believe it will flow more that a plenum style Manifold. Its way to small trying to rush a lot of air thru it. and runner number 4 is about 1 to 2 inches longer that runner number one. With a equal length manifold you shouldnt have any problems.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

The runner lengths are not the issue for the equal flow and lean condition. The runners are different lengths as a design feature to spread out the harmonic tuning so the power is over a wider range. Since these runners are show short its only using the 4 and 5th harmonics so I don't think its gaining much power from harmonic tuning.
The issue for the lean condition I believe is from other runners "stealing" incoming air before the #1 runner gets its fill. On this manifold its caused by the TB position and how it directs air into the plenum.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

ny_fam said:


> The runner lengths are not the issue for the equal flow and lean condition. The runners are different lengths as a design feature to spread out the harmonic tuning so the power is over a wider range. Since these runners are show short its only using the 4 and 5th harmonics so I don't think its gaining much power from harmonic tuning.
> The issue for the lean condition I believe is from other runners "stealing" incoming air before the #1 runner gets its fill. On this manifold its caused by the TB position and how it directs air into the plenum.


it doesnt get its fill because the end of the stock maniold doesnt have much rounding to the end of it by Cylinder #1. so its like hitting wall instead of going into that runner. if you have a rounded off plenum and make it narrow it should rush straight there. My guy is making this to where i shouldnt have that problem. But only time will tell. im also going to have a company in Huntington Beach called pfaff engines do a flow test on my new one a stock one and a stage 3 SR manifold and see what the out come is. That should be interesting:thumbup:


----------



## shortsk8a (Nov 17, 2007)

Does scientific Rabbit still make g60 manifolds?...I know alot of these grassroots guys have fallen off the map in recent years


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

shortsk8a said:


> Does scientific Rabbit still make g60 manifolds?...I know alot of these grassroots guys have fallen off the map in recent years


Yes the make them still.


----------



## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

Interesting info on what ny fam did to a stock G60 head that had a p n p job done to it. It compares a stock, stock w/ p n p & his results after he spent more time on it to cherry it out on the flow bench. It got stock valves but used the small stem version. Between the stock small stems and final p n p it flows identically to the highly modified EuroSpec (aftermarket) head of the 90's.


petethepug said:


> I was just looking at the data on the EuroSpec racing heads.
> 
> Peter Tong put some info out on there on his.
> 
> ...


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*G60 Plenum Intake Manifold*

Got my manifold done..Super excited to get my car running will post pics soon. These guys at Speed Force Racing did a really good job:thumbup:


----------



## xxMAXIMxx (Oct 19, 2012)

Giev photos mate!


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

xxMAXIMxx said:


> Giev photos mate!


Will have photos up by friday.


----------



## shortsk8a (Nov 17, 2007)

Looking foreward

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

shortsk8a said:


> Looking foreward
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2


:thumbup:


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

i had one made for my Cabriolet a while back... for my 42/35 solid lifter Eurospec setup running my Rotorcharged twin screw kit. The cost was over $800 not including all my time... it was made for boost so short runner... for optimal performance n/a i'd have to lengthen the runners. Flow on the top end on the Superflow 600 was the same with or without the manifold attached to the head... until around .45" and then it lost around 4% with the manifold bolted on vs. no manifold.


----------



## shortsk8a (Nov 17, 2007)

Dude that sounds pretty awesome, pictures????

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2


----------



## xxMAXIMxx (Oct 19, 2012)

> Will have photos up by friday.


It's sunday allready!


----------



## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

Peter Tong said:


> i had one made for my Cabriolet a while back... for my 42/35 solid lifter Eurospec setup running my Rotorcharged twin screw kit. The cost was over $800 not including all my time... it was made for boost so short runner... for optimal performance n/a i'd have to lengthen the runners. Flow on the top end on the Superflow 600 was the same with or without the manifold attached to the head... until around .45" and then it lost around 4% with the manifold bolted on vs. no manifold.


Nice to see you back!!!


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

*Pics are up*



xxMAXIMxx said:


> It's sunday allready!


Here you go


----------



## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

Hey Jeff do you have any flow #'s on that thing?


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

no i dont.


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

petethepug said:


> Hey Jeff do you have any flow #'s on that thing?


The shop that designed it for me asked me for my mod list i gave it to them and they designed it. I told them i will be pushing 25+psi i had one more picture with them Side by side. Stock VS Plenum battery on camera died bUT there was NO Comparison at all,


----------



## g60301 (Aug 5, 2011)

@jeffsvw  what'd they charge you to do that?


----------



## VeeDubTeddy (Jun 19, 2009)

That thing is sweet !:thumbup:


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

g60301 said:


> @jeffsvw  what'd they charge you to do that?


$800.00


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

VeeDubTeddy said:


> That thing is sweet !:thumbup:


:thumbup:


----------



## Chris66B (Jul 28, 2012)

Who built that manifold? How did it work?


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

Chris66B said:


> Who built that manifold? How did it work?


Manifold works like a champ! Flows way better than any manifold out there. Speed Force Racing in Santee Ca Made it for me. You can see on my post pics of the car its on. My drag g60 rabbit


----------



## Chris66B (Jul 28, 2012)

I already checked it out, very bad ass. I've loved Rabbits, since my Grandfather brought home a brand new Panama Tan 77' 1.6 fuel injected. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

Chris66B said:


> I already checked it out, very bad ass. I've loved Rabbits, since my Grandfather brought home a brand new Panama Tan 77' 1.6 fuel injected.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2


They re for sale if you want one let me know. Thanks:thumbup:


----------



## shortsk8a (Nov 17, 2007)

Soooooo......how much?

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

shortsk8a said:


> Soooooo......how much?
> 
> Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk 2


Sent u pm Ryan


----------



## Oekern (Jan 3, 2014)

So bottom line is that you have to do this with a custom setup ?
I see scientific does port jobs on the original intake manifold, but is the benefits of this
good on a "great" modified G60 ? Compared to e.x use a audi 5000 intake ?


----------



## jeffs vw (Apr 29, 2007)

Oekern said:


> So bottom line is that you have to do this with a custom setup ?
> I see scientific does port jobs on the original intake manifold, but is the benefits of this
> good on a "great" modified G60 ? Compared to e.x use a audi 5000 intake ?


These aren't for sale anylonger. I just have mine that they made. Sorry had this up for a while and no one seem interested which was a shocker. 

Yes and worked wonders on my Heavy Modded motor. ported head with this manifold crower 276 cam custom chip 440 injectors 19lbs of boost with tires burning out on dyno 308hp


----------



## Oekern (Jan 3, 2014)

jeffs vw said:


> These aren't for sale anylonger. I just have mine that they made. Sorry had this up for a while and no one seem interested which was a shocker.
> 
> Yes and worked wonders on my Heavy Modded motor. ported head with this manifold crower 276 cam custom chip 440 injectors 19lbs of boost with tires burning out on dyno 308hp


Oh. Okey !
Thanks for the answer tho :thumbup:


----------

