# Throttle Position Sensor, EPC, and a shady(?) dealership.



## VWZaicheek (Jun 21, 2011)

- This is up on the MKV forum as well, but this seemed more the forum for this sort of question. 

Okay, so I've read a couple posts on the 2.5 and this issue.... I even delved into some older posts involving the MKIV and related issues people were having. One thing I couldn't find was a resolution, so even if I just get pointed in the right direction here I'll be more than happy. 

Now, I'll try not to write a novel, but I do need some advice on something more than just mechanical, (though I'll need mechanical/electronic as well!) 

Bought my car used, 2009 VW Rabbit, 2.5L with 15000 miles on it June of 2011. The car was originally sold April of 2009 so the warranty was good until April of 2012. In September the car started developing, (or maybe the reason the car was sold originally,) some issues, EPC light, Engine light, and limp mode. It being under warranty, no big deal. They told me it was a malfunctioning throttle body, did some dealer magic, and sent me on my way. This lasted until October.... again, EPC light, Engine light, and limp mode. I go back to the dealership, they tell me it is the throttle position sensor, fix it, perform a recall, clean my filters and change my oil... (also, like a kid at the doctor's office I get a free carwash! /thumbsup) So, everything is peachy until January now. Again, EPC light, engine light, limp mode. I'm starting to get a bit frustrated at this point, but no matter, dealer, magic, warranty, throttle position sensor.... free car wash. I'm starting to get the hang of this. Cue April of 2012, again, EPC light, Engine light, limp mode.... one day before I'm out of warranty. I call, make the appointment, assured that it will be taken care of.... this is where the trouble really starts. I make my appointment, and they tell me that since my car is out of warranty, they cannot work on it. (Despite assurances that if I experienced related problems when I fell out of warranty that it would be covered due to a pre-existing condition.) Now, I'm willing to let the whole one day before the warranty thing drop, because, whatever, that's not where I feel the fight is. I feel that this is an issue I've been experiencing over and over again, and that their failure to fix it is not something I should have to shoulder. The service rep tells me first that I will be charged for diagnostics if it ends up not being the throttle positioning sensor, and that they cannot fix it without charge unless it is the throttle positioning sensor, (leading me to believe that they WILL fix it if that is indeed the case.) I have a friend bwell01, who has a VAGCOM and helped me confirm the diagnosis as a Throttle Position Sensor fault. Back to the dealership! I hand the service rep my keys and have a seat, waiting for someone from work to pick me up. 
The service rep comes up and asks, "will you be paying for this? Because your warranty has expired." 
Me - "No sir, you informed me that if it was related to the earlier Throttle Position Sensor faults that I would not be charged for any labour." 
Rep - "Correct, but if it comes up to be something else, we will have to charge you." 
Me - "That's fine, I ran the code, it's a throttle position sensor." 

This is where he completely changes his tack, I think he was anticipating that whatever the code was, they would juke me and charge me anyway.... but I could just be paranoid. 

Rep - "Sir, even if it IS a throttle position sensor fault, we will still have to charge you for any labour." 
Me - "But you JUST said that you wouldn't." 
Rep - "You're no longer in warranty." 
Me - "I understand that, you explained to me that since this is a pre-existing fault, I would not have to worry about that." 
Rep - "I'm sorry there is nothing I can do." 

... at this point I'm facepalming pretty hard and I'm at a loss of how to respond. Make a scene? Make it obvious that I know, (or think I know,) he's getting over on me? I feel like they're trying to screw me, and I like to think I am nice guy, I don't really know how to play the middle ground between nice guy and full on ******* customer mode. At this point I notice that my buddy, Bwell01, happens to be at the parts counter on his own business. I call him over... I cannot remember the exact conversation, but essentially he rolls through the reasonable questions and answers and then just looks at me and says.... "Call VW of America." At this point the service rep says that he can run the code for free... likely hoping that I was wrong about the code and it was a completely unrelated issue that he didn't have to worry about being on the hook for. Code came up as Throttle Position Sensor, and he stuck with the, "I cannot help you," line. 

So that's where we are, I currently have a case open and have submitted all the necessary paperwork to them to demonstrate that this is an ongoing problem and the service records are all documented. (Also the dealership reportedly told them that I did not let them run the code and they never confirmed that it was a Throttle Position Sensor fault.) I have been quite happy with the VW of America customer service so far, and I have high hopes, but in the meantime I'm still fretting like crazy and I can barely get up hills in the rabbit. This is where you all come in. I'm young, inexperienced, both mechanically and in life. What to do? 

1) What is causing the issue with my car? 

2) Am I being unreasonable in expecting Volkswagen to fix this?


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## steve89 (Feb 5, 2008)

My epc light, limp mode was for crank position sensor. Replaced it in 20 mins and never had ad problem again.


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## VWZaicheek (Jun 21, 2011)

This makes sense, did you have a code reader? My buddies VAGCOM keeps saying Throttle Positioning Sensor.... what error were you getting when it was the crank sensor?


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## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

You're doing the right thing, and should stand your ground (to the point of letting VWoA know you're consulting an attorney if things get out of hand; that usually causes them to back off) - it appears that the service department is merely taking advantage of their perception that you're not knowledgable. 

Have you read the fine print on your pervious service invoices? It may clearly state that any repairs made by the dealer are covered under a specific warranty themselves. I haven't had my VWs at a dealer for years, but have an invoice for work on our Mini which says their labor is covered for 24 months and OE Mini parts for 1-2 years. VW would certainly be less, but at least 6-12 months. 

I'm also wondering if the TPS is covered under the powertrain or emissions warranty?


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## VWZaicheek (Jun 21, 2011)

I'll check the invoices. The service rep assured me their work was warrantied past the warranty period... so I hope there is some paperwork on that. As much as I know I need paperwork, sometimes I deal with things on an old school level and expect people to honor verbal agreements... I know, I know. 

Seeing as how my car is unable to get out of limp mode due to this issue I have to think it has something to do with powertrain. Is that a longer warranty? 5 years?


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

steve89 said:


> My epc light, limp mode was for crank position sensor. Replaced it in 20 mins and never had ad problem again.


 same, problem popped up at 2,000 miles. started going into limp mode by about 11k pretty regularly and had it replaced under warranty. 

almost wrecked my car one day when i was merging and downshifted, not knowing my car had gone into limp mode while riding in 5th on highway. hit 4500 rpm and decel'd hard right as i cut someone off, in the rain, almost a wreck... wow.


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## VWZaicheek (Jun 21, 2011)

Yuck, and I'm sure the insurance company would have believed you there. >< Nothing like your car ****ing up to ruin your day. 

Side note- I just had coilovers and rims installed today.... the coils sit really low even at the highest settings though, and I'm running a 225-45-18 so there isn't much room... now I have to roll the fenders. >< This is while I'm supposed to be going into savings mode before leaving the military. This car... I love it too much.


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## steve89 (Feb 5, 2008)

I forgot the numbers but came back as knock sensor from autozone. And kept doing research. Was going to replace throttle body but I started with that sensor first.


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