# Are these cars German or Mexican?



## joesmith (Aug 10, 2010)

Awhile back I was told that my 2000 Passat was built in Mexico. What's the deal exactly? It was explained to me that those built outside of Germany were inferior. I also wonder how a car that's from Germany, a nation which is more or less synonymous with quality cars can have so many cheap plastic parts that break easily. For example, my window regulators (or whatever those plastic things that pull the power windows up and down are called) have all broken at one time or another. Why not make them out of aluminum or something, instead of a cheap material like plastic? I don't get it. Can anyone explain?


----------



## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

joesmith said:


> Awhile back I was told that my 2000 Passat was built in Mexico. What's the deal exactly? It was explained to me that those built outside of Germany were inferior. I also wonder how a car that's from Germany, a nation which is more or less synonymous with quality cars can have so many cheap plastic parts that break easily. For example, my window regulators (or whatever those plastic things that pull the power windows up and down are called) have all broken at one time or another. Why not make them out of aluminum or something, instead of a cheap material like plastic? I don't get it. Can anyone explain?


Your car was built in Germany.

Some VWs sold in the US were built in Mexico or Brazil, some are still built in Mexico, some are built in the US. They all use the same parts and the same robots and the same QA - so, no - there are no measurable quality differences.

Your car is 12-13 years old. Parts break. Industry gets smarter over time. Would you like me to list all the parts that broke on 4-8 year old Accords and Camrys of my friends and family? Friends who were on their 3rd Honda V6 transmission in as many years, and now need to change fluid every 30,000 miles to avoid further costly repairs?

New VWs, like most cars, have _a lot_ fewer parts fail. For example, the 2.5 Golf (amongst other VWs) is not only recommended by Consumer Reports, but has a higher reliability rating than the average Honda or Toyota.


----------



## Brush (Nov 18, 2002)

*Chill*



joesmith said:


> Awhile back I was told that my 2000 Passat was built in Mexico. What's the deal exactly? It was explained to me that those built outside of Germany were inferior. I also wonder how a car that's from Germany, a nation which is more or less synonymous with quality cars can have so many cheap plastic parts that break easily. For example, my window regulators (or whatever those plastic things that pull the power windows up and down are called) have all broken at one time or another. Why not make them out of aluminum or something, instead of a cheap material like plastic? I don't get it. Can anyone explain?


In any event, you can relax. I have a 2003 GTI, built in Brazil. It has 173,000Km on the clock, and runs just fine. No bits have fallen off. 

It also has NOT had any of the so-called "common issues" - I have never had coil-pack problems, MAF sensor problems, window regulator problems. sun-roof problems, or any other crap that the typical VW-hater prattles on about. (Yes, I have had a starter and a water-pump replaced).

The non-German factories use the same robots to build the cars. They contain the same plastic bits as the "German" cars. In fact, given the complacent nature of German factory workers at the end of the 20th C. I would put the quality of the Mexican and Brazilian cars against the German ones anytime. Those folks were thankful for the new jobs, and put more effort into making a higher quality product.


----------



## deagle (Feb 22, 2011)

well, VAG outsourced production for more profit

not saying the glove compartment wasn't put in right, but the cheap hinge broke off

same w/ cupholder

armrest

window regulators

if a surgeon puts in an implant, and the implant sux, well, there'll be problems still of course

as far as worksmanhip, i'd think a German worker building a German car would be more conscious and take more pride in building their product


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

To OP...simple way to tell (for all vehicles).... your VIN's first letter/number is always the country of manufactuer code

W= Germany
1= USA
3= Mexico
9= Brazil

There are several others, but those pertain directly to VW's sold in NA


----------



## rhodri45 (Feb 19, 2012)

speedtek40 said:


> To OP...simple way to tell (for all vehicles).... your VIN's first letter/number is always the country of manufactuer code
> 
> W= Germany
> 1= USA
> ...


this


----------



## Brush (Nov 18, 2002)

deagle said:


> as far as worksmanhip, i'd think a German worker building a German car would be more conscious and take more pride in building their product


Given labour relations and turmoil at the time, I doubt that the typical German assembly-line worker would have been more awake and aware than the typical Brazilian/Mexican assembly line worker, and I doubt that he/she would necessarily be more _conscientious_ either, just because it is a German car. It would depend (to my mind) on who was more thankful for a job.


----------



## DUTCHMANia (Apr 7, 2003)

deagle said:


> as far as worksmanhip, i'd think a Polish/Hungarian worker building a German car would be more conscious and take more pride in building their product


fixed


----------



## luckeydoug1 (Feb 11, 2001)

My family has owned 17 new VWs since 2000. ALL of the Mexican made ones were troublesome. The European ones were relatively trouble free. You will never convince me, based on our experiences, that the European built models are not better built.


----------



## ajd187 (Feb 6, 2012)

VW has a reputation for using the cheapest labor they can find. So, I don't think where it is built matters much, and if anything, a Mexican worker might work harder as he is probably relatively better than a German one as the cost of living is much lower in Mexico.

However all the robots and the software that runs them in made in Germany anyway, so assembly line workers are probably not very skilled anyway. 

I know people that had German made Passats taht were complete piles, and people who have owned the Mexi-Jettas that had no problems. I think it doesn't reallyi matter much where the car is built (see above) and that fear of Mexican or Brazilian builds is largely unfounded and not fact based.


----------



## Petercar redo (Jun 10, 2012)

Originally Posted by deagle 
as far as worksmanhip, i'd think a Polish/Hungarian worker building a German car would be more conscious and take more pride in building their product
Ding ding ding. 

Love my Mexican built Jetta. Except for the stupid black box
on top of the battery with a 150amp fuse and melting. It's fixed now
but man End of rant.


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

Anyone who has ever spent any time in Mexico will attest that Mexicans are very hard workers....personally I've never seen a harder working group of people and they have exemplary attention to detail.....


----------



## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

ajd187 said:


> VW has a reputation for using the cheapest labor they can find.


Strange then that Volkswagen has such a great reputation as employer, in Germany.


----------



## ajd187 (Feb 6, 2012)

feels_road said:


> Strange then that Volkswagen has such a great reputation as employer, in Germany.


In Germany there are probably laws dictating that they have to pay $X/hr for worke would be my guess. Also they take tons of money from the government over there via tax breaks.

At the Chattanooga plant where the Passat is built, the average worker makes 1/2 of what a UAW worker in Detroit makes when benefits and salary are combined.


----------



## oscar563 (Jun 5, 2012)

To my knowledge no Passat has ever been built in Mexico, only Jetta/Golf/Beetle and their submodels also various engines, but check out this link to clarify....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_factories

Then check this one out and stop complaining about shady quality from VW cars made in Mexico...

http://www.tirekick.com/TK07/VW-Puebla.htm

Oh yeah, by the way, I'm from the best country in the world....MEXICO :beer:


----------



## MrCypherr (Jul 26, 2011)

speedtek40 said:


> To OP...simple way to tell (for all vehicles).... your VIN's first letter/number is always the country of manufactuer code
> 
> W= Germany
> 1= USA
> ...


Wow, i never even knew that! Thanks for the tip.


----------



## oscar563 (Jun 5, 2012)

ajd187 said:


> VW has a reputation for using the cheapest labor they can find. So, I don't think where it is built matters much, and if anything, a Mexican worker might work harder as he is probably relatively better than a German one as the cost of living is much lower in Mexico.


All manufacturers, specially automakers, will use the cheapest labor they could find. After all, they are in the bussiness of making money through profit. VW, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chevy, Renault, Chrysler are present in Mexico, China, Poland, Hungary & Russia with car-building plants in order to make slightly bigger profit margins because we (the consumer) don't want to pay cars made with American wages (backed by the UAW)....

Did you know that your typical assembly worker in the US starts with roughly $18/hr and in Mexico an assembly worker makes roughly $80/wk for 45hrs/wk? And in China is a third of mexican wages and about the same hrs/wk?

I'm just saying, plus about 60% of your car components like switches, sensors, bits & pieces are outsourced to coutries with cheap wages (i.e. Mexico, India, South America, China, etc.).


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

oscar563 said:


> After all, they are in the bussiness of making money through profit.


Is there any other way?........


----------



## Sanityana (Mar 4, 2012)

Could not resist


----------



## oscar563 (Jun 5, 2012)

speedtek40 said:


> Is there any other way?........


Yes, but they're illegal.....:laugh:


----------



## ribbit (Jun 4, 2012)

My experience with a 2009 JSW tdi has been absolutely perfect,no rattles,no breaking in problems. I was concerned at first with the Mexican production,but after examining a demo I was sold on the fit and finish. Paint is flawless as well. No worries if you are thinkung about one of these cars. JP


----------



## ajd187 (Feb 6, 2012)

oscar563 said:


> All manufacturers, specially automakers, will use the cheapest labor they could find. After all, they are in the bussiness of making money through profit. VW, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Chevy, Renault, Chrysler are present in Mexico, China, Poland, Hungary & Russia with car-building plants in order to make slightly bigger profit margins because we (the consumer) don't want to pay cars made with American wages (backed by the UAW)....
> 
> Did you know that your typical assembly worker in the US starts with roughly $18/hr and in Mexico an assembly worker makes roughly $80/wk for 45hrs/wk? And in China is a third of mexican wages and about the same hrs/wk?
> 
> I'm just saying, plus about 60% of your car components like switches, sensors, bits & pieces are outsourced to coutries with cheap wages (i.e. Mexico, India, South America, China, etc.).


i know that all companies do this. I've just read some things about VW practices that led me to believe they were among the worst offenders.

Fun fact: the original VW employees were slave labors during World War II..


----------



## oscar563 (Jun 5, 2012)

ajd187 said:


> i know that all companies do this. I've just read some things about VW practices that led me to believe they were among the worst offenders.
> 
> Fun fact: the original VW employees were slave labors during World War II..


So the Mk4/5 jetta is a sh*tier product because it's built in Puebla, Mexico than the now deceased Pontiac Boneville/Grand Prix because it is built in Oshawa, Canada?

I think there are a lot of judgments passed because the sole fact of the country cars are built, but I've worked for suppliers to GM, Chrysler & Ford and also for suppliers to Toyota, Subary, Nissan, VW & Merc and all of their factories are in Mexico and the difference is in the design, philosophy & quality mentality of each car manufacturer.

That's why I do not buy american-made, but Ford is definitely turning it around and might make me change my mind on Fords but GM & Chrysler are in still lacking in effort....by miles!!!


----------



## ajd187 (Feb 6, 2012)

oscar563 said:


> So the Mk4/5 jetta is a sh*tier product because it's built in Puebla, Mexico than the now deceased Pontiac Boneville/Grand Prix because it is built in Oshawa, Canada?


No I don't think so. I was saying that I think they are built as well,or better than, the stuff built in Wolfsburg. Why? Becuase Wolfsburg is probably using the cheapest labor they can find too.

And honestly I think we know that EVERYONE is probably cheap labor in Puebla. So you are going to be able to hire better workers for less money.


----------



## MK5golf (Jun 30, 2012)

I dont care what anyone says, I want my VW made in Germany. I trust the German workers with MY money. I would also not question a car made in Canada or Japan. As far as other countries go, it would depends on the manufacturer. I would trust my hard earned $ on a Ford made south of the border. A Chrysler? Probably not. Id also most defenitely purchase ANY latin American VW over any other latin american manufactured car from certain manufacturers (EX. Fiat... fwiw im actually Italian)
When other people ask me this sort of question (Are vws that are made in mexico/Brazil bad?) I honestly answer them: NO. Cars vary form person to person, each one is unique, with its own set of problems. Im sure the 2012 jetta and golf are nearly equivalent, maybe youll see more of a difference in older model years (MK3's apperantly) I have heard horror stories from both German made vws AND latin American ones, and I hear great things about both. 
Point is :
I would personally RATHER my VW be built in Germany.


----------



## oscar563 (Jun 5, 2012)

There are very few cars made in germany sold here in america.
Anybody know which models are imported from germany???


----------



## MK5golf (Jun 30, 2012)

oscar563 said:


> There are very few cars made in germany sold here in america.
> Anybody know which models are imported from germany???


Off the top of my head, in vw's current lineup
All Golf variants (except sport wagons, but those are badged as jettas in the states anyhow)
Tiguan
passat cc
and actually... i think thats it! Jetta is mexican made, passat is american, eos comes from portugal, and touareg is from slovakia.


----------



## slats (Oct 30, 2008)

joesmith said:


> Awhile back I was told that my 2000 Passat was built in Mexico. What's the deal exactly? It was explained to me that those built outside of Germany were inferior. I also wonder how a car that's from Germany, a nation which is more or less synonymous with quality cars can have so many cheap plastic parts that break easily. For example, my window regulators (or whatever those plastic things that pull the power windows up and down are called) have all broken at one time or another. Why not make them out of aluminum or something, instead of a cheap material like plastic? I don't get it. Can anyone explain?


Cost.


----------



## ajd187 (Feb 6, 2012)

MK5golf said:


> Off the top of my head, in vw's current lineup
> All Golf variants (except sport wagons, but those are badged as jettas in the states anyhow)
> Tiguan
> passat cc
> and actually... i think thats it! Jetta is mexican made, passat is american, eos comes from portugal, and touareg is from slovakia.


EOS has a VIN starting with WV, which is Germany. Same for the Touareg.


----------



## MK5golf (Jun 30, 2012)

ajd187 said:


> EOS has a VIN starting with WV, which is Germany. Same for the Touareg.


Nope, Eos is Palmela Portugal and Touareg is made in Bratislava, Slovakia. Id bet $ on it... 

Tex article on the Eos http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/vortex_news/article_1814.shtml

and Touareg (I HATE linking Wikipedia but its all I found...)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Touareg :


----------



## ajd187 (Feb 6, 2012)

MK5golf said:


> Nope, Eos is Palmela Portugal and Touareg is made in Bratislava, Slovakia. Id bet $ on it...
> 
> Tex article on the Eos http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/vortex_news/article_1814.shtml
> 
> and Touareg (I HATE linking Wikipedia but its all I found...)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Touareg :


Thanks man, those are good finds. I was only going by the VINs on my dealer's site but that is better info. Either their VINs are wrong or there's some voodoo going on since WVW is defintely a Germany VIN.

Nothing wrong with linking Wikipedia; it's OK for most things.


----------



## smittyATL (Feb 25, 2004)

Had a 2000 VR6 GTI built in Germany and now have a 2000 1.8T Golf built in Mexico. Not really any difference I can tell.

Note the country of manufacture codes for your VIN posted above if you're just dying to know where your car was made.


----------



## MrCypherr (Jul 26, 2011)

I honestly dont notice any difference. I have both and theres no difference in driving or parts. From my experience, just regular maintenance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk cause I'm out driving my Mk3.


----------



## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

smittyATL said:


> ......a 2000 1.8T Golf built in Mexico......


:sly:


----------



## defkno123 (Oct 31, 2007)

:beer:


----------



## alpinweiss (Aug 10, 2007)

I currently own a Passat built in Germany, and I have previously owned Jettas built in México. I think the Passat is better than the Jettas in most ways. 

But, it is important to remember that I paid about $10k more for the Passat than I did for its Jetta predecessor. The Passat is built to a different price-point than is the Jetta. The Passat has always been known as an affordable Audi. 

It is really difficult to compare assembly plant quality, when comparing different cars.

:beer:


----------



## uNLeaSHeD. (Aug 28, 2010)

speedtek40 said:


> To OP...simple way to tell (for all vehicles).... your VIN's first letter/number is always the country of manufactuer code
> 
> W= Germany
> 1= USA
> ...


x2 this :thumbup:
Im proud to say my car is actually made in Germany


----------



## rocknrod (Jul 26, 2012)

uNLeaSHeD. said:


> x2 this :thumbup:
> Im proud to say my car is actually made in Germany


 This is good info. I too am proud that my CC s made in Chumany


----------



## jrscpu2004 (Sep 2, 2012)

*3vw vs wvw*

This is a simple way to identify Mexican VS German by the FIRST 3 letters/digits on the vehicle's VIN #. 
I had a 1996 VW Jetta Trek, I bought new in 1997. Had it for 12 years and racked up 218,500 miles when I sold it. No engine work, No Transmisision work. One clutch due to it being contaminated by the o-ring seal on the manual transmission had leaked. Other than one starter the car was quite reliable. When I sold it, it looked like believe it's still being run by the new owner. That was a Mexican Built car. Nuff Said! 
I have had 1987 Wolfsburg Jetta(German Built) and my wife has a 2009 Passat Komfort. 
Basically, I have seen not enough evidence EITHER way to prove a Mexican Built VS German Built means something.


----------

