# How often does the special lubricant (Krytox) need to be applied?



## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

There has been a fair amount of speculation on how often Special Lubricant will need to be applied to the seals.
I'm starting this post so we can document our personal observations. Hopefully, over time, we can get an idea of an "average" time line for how often application is required.
After washing the Eos on the weekend I noticed that a couple of the roof seals were begining to get the "white powder" look to them. These seals are exposed to the elements 100% of the time. (see photo)
I checked all the seals and the rest seem to still be OK, especially the seals that are normally covered while the roof is up.
The seals were lubricated the day I brought the car home, Feb 19th, 2007, so it is almost exactly 2 months since the initial application.
The car is garaged when not in use, but these seals are subject to direct exposure to soap and rubbing during washing. The car has been washed a fair bit.
So I'll start with the following observation:
Under certain circumstances it would _appear_ that some roof seals _may_ require an application of special lubricant as often as every two months.
*These seals on both sides.*








Kevin










_Modified by just4fun at 10:47 PM 4-18-2007_


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## Speedster356 (Aug 7, 2006)

Hi Kevin!
I first applied the original VW lubricant after about 2 months of ownership (got the car first week of January).
My plan is to lube the roof every six months.
I had a few signs of white residues when I got the car from the dealer.
I was aware of the issue so I did 2 things. First, I was very careful when I waxed the car. Second, I hand wash it every 2 weeks on average, using a regular car shampoo and not a Wash and Wax type shampoo, which seem to be more ****ar nowdays.
The lubricant seems to be holding fine so far. The Greek summer should be a good test to see if it will hold all six months (next application will be in September).
Fotis


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (Krytox) need to be applied? (just4fun)*

Hi Kevin:
I'm going to guess (pure speculation) that as long as the roof operates without any problems and as long as it is waterproof and trouble-free, you won't need to re-lubricate seals just because the parts of the seals that are exposed to the elements - and exposed to detergents when you wash the car - are starting to turn white.
The place where the lubricant matters most is where two seals touch each other, or where a seal touches a metal surface. As long as the seal is soft and pliable where it makes contact with something else for the purpose of sealing, then I think you should be OK.
In other words, the cosmetic indication that an exposed part of a seal is beginning to appear white should not be, _a priori,_ an indication that the seal needs to be lubricated.
That's my guess on the matter.
Michael


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## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (Krytox) need to be applied? (just4fun)*

Good morning everyone!








The manual states that krytox is to be applied after EVERY car wash. I personally put krytox on average about every 2 months. The reason for this is that this is about the time period where I start hearing a few squeaks and rattles. So, I reapply the krytox, rattles gone. 
I also wash my baby every Saturday







, so that may increase the necessity to apply krytox more often?
We'll see what happens now that summer is coming on. It will be interesting to see if we come up with an average, depending on weather, places lived, etc...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (Timokreon)*

My guess is that the most influential variable will be what kind of detergent is used when the car is washed. Some of the touchless washes use pretty strong detergents to get the car clean without touching the surface. At the other end of the spectrum, hand-washing the car with an automotive specific soap would probably have the least effect.
Michael


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Kevin:
I'm going to guess (pure speculation) that as long as the roof operates without any problems and as long as it is waterproof and trouble-free, you won't need to re-lubricate seals just because the parts of the seals that are exposed to the elements - and exposed to detergents when you wash the car - are starting to turn white.
Michael

Hi Michael,
My actual observation was the two seals that were starting to get the "powdery white" look were also starting to look and feel dry as well.
Others observations may very well differ, but the white discoloration of the seals _*may*_ be an indication they are starting to dry out.
I don't think there was any fear of leaks or seal problems of any sort.
Two or three drops of Krytox and 30 seconds worth of effort, and all is fine.
Kevin


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (Timokreon)*

Fotis and Timokreon,
Great posts, thanks.
If we keep posting our observations and experiences, although they may differ, over time we might start noticing a pattern or timeline that can be consulted as a guideline by new owners.
Kevin


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## Timokreon (Nov 13, 2006)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (Krytox) need to be applied? (just4fun)*

Yes, that picture you put up, I believe are the seals that may need the krytox a bit more than say the side seals. These are the ones, at least for me, squeak and rattle after the 6-8 week mark. 
Will these seals "break-in" of sorts? Become more pliable/flexible after the krytox soaks in better, and they have been used more? 
These seals also might have been under a bit more stress in the winter, due to below freezing temps, etc... and perhaps during the summer they won't need to be treated anywhere near as often.
Timo


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## [email protected] (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (Timokreon)*

I got mine delivered two weeks ago, and the seals have all mentioned signs. 
Very curious to know how this will be solved by the dealer.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant ([email protected])*

Hi Maartin:
Welcome to the forum.
Perhaps bring our post in the forum that explains how to lubricate (maintain) roof seals to the attention of your VW dealer - he or she many not be aware of it. Here is a direct link to the post: How to solve (or prevent) Eos Roof leaks. 'Leaks' won't be a big worry in Dubai, but wind noise resulting from seal deformation could be. If the car has sat in port at Dubai for a few weeks, in bright sunlight and high heat, it is certainly understandable that the seals may be a bit dry.







The Eos is still a fairly new vehicle for everyone, for that reason, your dealer may not be aware of the need to lubricate the seals. 
You might also want to suggest that your dealer have a look at VW Campaign 61A8, Criteria 1. This contains almost exactly the same lubrication instructions as our post here on the forum. This campaign might not apply to your car - simply because your car may not be within the VIN range that the campaign is issued for - but the general idea remains the same, roof seals need to be lubricated with the special lubricant in order for everything to work properly. It's reasonable to expect the car to be delivered to the new owner with all the seals properly lubricated, after that, lubrication is the responsibility of the owner as it is explained in the owner manual.
Note that in Europe and the Middle East, the same VW special lubricant (*G 052 172 A1*) is also available in an aerosol spray can, the part number for that is *G 052 172 A2* (only the last digit is different). It is perfectly acceptable to use the aerosol version of the lubricant rather than the liquid version. Normally, as owners we don't purchase the aerosol version because it is not quite as cost-efficient as the liquid version. The dealers sometimes prefer the aerosol version because the savings in labour time outweigh the additional cost per ounce of the aerosol version of the lubricant.
Michael


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: How often does the special lubricant (PanEuropean)*



PanEuropean said:


> :
> 
> , lubrication is the responsibility of the owner as it is explained in the owner manual.
> -Micheal, I didnt know this is our responsibility?I do see its included as part of the major service work , but i didnt realize it was up to us the owners to keep these lubed? I will do some reading of the manual to try find that. thanks for pointing that out Doug


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

after some reading in the owners manual,yes Micheal your correct .In book 3.2 pg.25, i does state that vw does recommend cleaning and treating the roof seals after every car wash. Doug


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_after some reading in the owners manual,yes Micheal your correct .In book 3.2 pg.25, i does state that vw does recommend cleaning and treating the roof seals after every car wash. Doug


That's one expensive carwash!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_...In book 3.2, page25, it does state that VW recommends cleaning and treating the roof seals after every car wash. 

That is true, but personally, I think that might be a bit of overkill. The problem with owner manuals written for the North American market is that you never know what part of the owner manual contains intelligent advice (in other words, was written by an engineer), and what part of it contains defensive legal posturing (was written by the lawyers).
If you are running the car through a touchless car wash that uses pretty strong chemicals to strip dirt and road film off the car, it could perhaps make sense to lubricate frequently. But, if you are washing the car by hand, using a detergent made for washing cars (this is what I suspect the majority of owners will do), then I think the lubricant will persist across quite a few washes.
We can make our own evaluation of when lubrication is needed just by listening for wind noise, watching for the early indications of water infiltration (logically, right after we wash the car







), and observing the seals to confirm that they are smoothly sliding against each other and there is no friction or dryness that is the precursor to seals pinching when the glass roof is operated.
In other words, I think seal lubrication is an 'on-condition' maintenance function.
Michael


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