# Apr ecu



## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

is anyone else running this? 

im just really wondering if its a new ecu or just plug into and upgrade with the programs they give you,

Guess im really just wondering what all is it. ?


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## Doc TwoPointFive (Oct 6, 2007)

I think you're getting confused with something else, i.e. a flash programmer. The APR programming has to be done at an authorized dealer. I had mine done almost two years ago at BFI in Cary, NC. I was only running an EVOM-S system at the time but I did feel a noticeable difference with the new flash. Check their website for your local dealer if you're interested in getting it done.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

teejaybee said:


> Guess im really just wondering what all is it. ?



What APR provides is just software that changes the engine tuning to improve performance. The software is programmed onto your existing ECU. Just like United, C2, Unitronic, Revo and others. In some instances your ECU needs to be removed to reprogram it, in other cases it is done from the CAN bus port under the dash. In your case the Rabbit can be programmed without removal. Even if it is 2009+ (with United Motorsports tune).

If you're looking to improve the performance of you 2.5L Rabbit, then the ECU flash is a good start. Usually in-conjunction with a cold air intake and exhaust.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

yeah i was confused because the install pictures say remove oem and replace with APR ecu, but i plan on doing cold air first, for performance this summer. but if you are just upgrading the oem ecu why to they offer anti theft and that? im talking about the full program one not 1 or 2 programs.


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

I think anti-theft is just something extra. Their software is nice because you can change it back to stock mode or valet mode so when you take your car to get some work done they can't take it for a joy ride.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

oh lol well ive decided i want to get it to at least 200hp its more then stock obviously but not enough to get me in to much trouble already have 4 points from one ticket with this car =[


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## turtles (Mar 17, 2010)

teejaybee said:


> oh lol well ive decided i want to get it to at least 200hp its more then stock obviously but not enough to get me in to much trouble already have 4 points from one ticket with this car =[


200whp is doable, but it sounds like you need to do more research on what it is you're trying to do.... 


and then don't do it. 4 points? what did you get caught doing? most i've ever gotten was 3 points at one time (years ago) and the last thing on my mind at the time was modding my car to go faster and attract more attention. suspension, wheels, lose the cops, turbo, fast.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

i was passing on the high way doing 78 in a 55 , well the more information i get the more research i can do,


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

teejaybee said:


> is anyone else running this?
> 
> im just really wondering if its a new ecu or just plug into and upgrade with the programs they give you,
> 
> Guess im really just wondering what all is it. ?


There are numerous 2.5's upgrade with APR. It is a software upgrade to the stock ECU, this is done via the obd2 port therefore the ecu is necver touched. 

The nice thing about APR is they offer program switching which allows to change between stock and performance modes through the cruise control. They also offer some other features such as anti-theft. This keeps anyone from starting your car(even if they have the key) without enter a code on the cruise stalk(certain sequence of button pushes)

I could go on and on about how APR works but there is a ton of info on their site and have been doing program switching for 10yrs now. 

The only drawback is the do not offer anything beyond there typical ECU upgrade, so if you wanted to really make 200whp or even go turbo they can't help with that. 

For 200whp without forced induction I would recommend intake, exhaust, ecu upgrade, and intake manifold. For the ecu & manifold combo(they both work together can't do one without the other) we use United Motorsport. They were the first and my opinion the best for that combo. And can also offer upgrade if you ever decide to do turbo later. 


We sell and support both APR and UM so we can take care of you know matter which route you want to go. UM is currently on sale and APR should be on sale next week. 

You are also local enough so feel free to stop by if you wanted to discuss it more.


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

I wouldn't say APR can't offer anything more then just the typical ecu upgrade. If your not to far from their headquarters you can always talk to them and bring your car in to see if they can make any adjustments to your setup. I had headers and a full cat-back system and took it to APR, they were able to make adjustments to the tune. It wasn't much but they are able to. I got rid of my headers and exhaust because the drone made long trips annoying. The headers vibrated to much causing my knock sensors to go off.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

sleeper247 said:


> I wouldn't say APR can't offer anything more then just the typical ecu upgrade. If your not to far from their headquarters you can always talk to them and bring your car in to see if they can make any adjustments to your setup. I had headers and a full cat-back system and took it to APR, they were able to make adjustments to the tune. It wasn't much but they are able to. I got rid of my headers and exhaust because the drone made long trips annoying. The headers vibrated to much causing my knock sensors to go off.


Yea but they aren't gonna do a full retune for an intake manifold or a turbo.


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Yea but they aren't gonna do a full retune for an intake manifold or a turbo.


Why would you say that? Im sure if some was to bring them a turbo 2.5L they take a look at it.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

i will most likely be stopping by tom to sit and talk about it, see what costs will be and what you suggest to be done,


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

sleeper247 said:


> Why would you say that? Im sure if some was to bring them a turbo 2.5L they take a look at it.


history.

So far APR hasnt stepped away from the "stock" systems.
they havent done Big Turbo SW, ever. 

And on top of it, few companies actually develop for the 2.5, APR would go into the trouble of making NEW sw+test+development for 1 car.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

can we get onto suggestions on how to get 200whp for me ,


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## turtles (Mar 17, 2010)

teejaybee said:


> can we get onto suggestions on how to get 200whp for me ,


read the thread, [email protected] already answered your questions. intake, exhaust, ecu upgrade, sri. you can choose between the united motorsports sri and the c2. search a little, read a lot.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

turtles said:


> read the thread, [email protected] already answered your questions. intake, exhaust, ecu upgrade, sri. you can choose between the united motorsports sri and the c2.* search a little, read a lot.*








[email protected] said:


> For 200whp without forced induction I would recommend intake, exhaust, ecu upgrade, and intake manifold.


um... dude, it isnt that hard.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

seems as though sri is going to cost me almost 1.5k to 2k ? seems alot for an estimated 60-70hp that i really want lol but like i said tom ill try to come by if im reading this right forced induction is turbo or super charger?


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## turtles (Mar 17, 2010)

teejaybee said:


> seems as though sri is going to cost me almost 1.5k to 2k ? seems alot for an estimated 60-70hp that i really want lol but like i said tom ill try to come by if im reading this right forced induction is turbo or super charger?


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5296553-C2-s-new-2.5l-turbo-kit!
read this
then find some other threads, READ them, and then ask. questions like yours have been asked and answered a thousand times


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

hmm so it wont be what i though i was told by a buddy who has build some vws to not do the carbonio from apr and do a shortram ? never heard of it didnt have time to ask, i get the ecu flash basically edits/adds software to the ecu to increase power, and exhaust is obvious lol


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

teejaybee said:


> seems as though sri is going to cost me almost 1.5k to 2k ? seems alot for an estimated 60-70hp that i really want lol but like i said tom ill try to come by if im reading this right forced induction is turbo or super charger?


1 sec on google.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_induction


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

i have a feeling this is goingto take alot of planning and saving ,


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

sleeper247 said:


> Why would you say that? Im sure if some was to bring them a turbo 2.5L they take a look at it.


There is no way unless its like a friend of a friend deal on the side. 

Think about it, they can spend time developing 2.5 turbo software that if they are lucky might sell 10 ecu upgrades a month.

Or doing something like 2.0T software that they easily sell a couple hundred a month


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

hey tom will you be at h2o? im going to be there saturday if i can find you ill stop over and talk about this stuff, if i cant find you ill just stop by your place some weekend after h2o


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

We broke 200whp with a intake manifold, header, exhaust and C2motorsports tune.
we will be at H20 at the NGPracing/C2motorsports setup saturday and sunday doing ecu flashes on the spot at 20% dscount. C2 sofware ranges from 87 octane stock file upgrade, sri NA 200+whp file to stg3 big turbo and all things inbetween.
stop by and talk to jason at NGP, chris from C2 or myself, josh from NLS. we will be glad to answer any and all questions


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

teejaybee said:


> hey tom will you be at h2o? im going to be there saturday if i can find you ill stop over and talk about this stuff, if i cant find you ill just stop by your place some weekend after h2o


Yep we will be there along with Jeff/United Motorsports. We will also be doing ecu upgrade from either manufacturer(UM, APR)

If you plan on upgrading in the future UM is the way to go and will be on sale for $50 off with no install charges. If you do upgrade in the future you don't have to "re-buy" the tune, for example you get the regular tune now and the SRI next month you simply pay the difference. 

If you don't think you will go beyond basic chip, intake, exhaust, or want the option of switching, such as back to stock I would recommend APR which will also be on sale $100 off 

Feel free to stop by, we got a ton of space this year so we should be easy to find with a bunch of cars on display. If I'm not at the tent, probably find me chipping cars.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> history.
> 
> So far APR hasnt stepped away from the "stock" systems.
> they havent done Big Turbo SW, ever.
> ...


Not for a 2.5, and I know not "big" turbos by todays standards but have been doing big turbo software for factory turbo cars for years such as 1.8T, 2.7T, 2.0T. 

the turbo is considered small by many but the 2.0TSI stage3 is now capable of over 400hp that has to count.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Hey Tom, you guys gonna have a dynoday again in the fall like you did last year at the shop? And if so, will Jeff be there at all? Just wondering cause Id like to get my Rabbit on the dyno again and see what kinda power I have now. No bald tires this year haha.


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## seanmcd72 (May 14, 2008)

Anyone have any 1/4 mile times after receiving an SRI+Tune?? :beer:


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

seanmcd72 said:


> Anyone have any 1/4 mile times after receiving an SRI+Tune?? :beer:


Faster than stock lol


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## rags2riches (Jan 2, 2010)

I'd look into Unitronic's 2.5 software. I know a lot of guys hate on Uni around here but as far as I know they were the first to come out with the 2009+ software. I think they are the only ones that offer it for 09 and up. I don't have the 2.5 upgrade but I have used them in the past for my 1.8T and it made a huge difference. The best thing about their tunes is that they are setup to adapt to what fuel grade is local to you. Like I can get 93 octane around here so I got the 93 file but if I can't get 93 for some reason I can just get 91 and the ecu will adapt to 91 octane. No switches or anything like that. No need to change programs. I also have APR(did uni first then switched) and they make a solid product as well.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I dig my apr, but won't be needing it after this week lol... C2 stage 2 turbo!

I have been really happy with my apr set up with my carbonio intake and eurojet exhaust...it really brought the car to life!

Three major things that I would change on the rabbit if I were you??
1. chip, intake and exhaust
2. Motor mounts. 
3. single mass flywheel with vr6 clutch.

The car will come alive, won't feel so sterile and will surprise the hell out of a lot of people


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

I agree. chip,intake and exhaust and your rabbit just comes alive. Find a nice straight road and let the rabbit go.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

rags2riches said:


> I'd look into Unitronic's 2.5 software. I know a lot of guys hate on Uni around here but as far as I know they were the first to come out with the 2009+ software. I think they are the only ones that offer it for 09 and up. I don't have the 2.5 upgrade but I have used them in the past for my 1.8T and it made a huge difference. The best thing about their tunes is that they are setup to adapt to what fuel grade is local to you. Like I can get 93 octane around here so I got the 93 file but if I can't get 93 for some reason I can just get 91 and the ecu will adapt to 91 octane. No switches or anything like that. No need to change programs. I also have APR(did uni first then switched) and they make a solid product as well.


who hates uni??? i LOVE it...

and some other do so to. its just that a couple of people like Josh and Tom are always talkig about C2 and UM... lol

everybody pushes their liking.


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## teejaybee (Apr 16, 2011)

would you suggest like the APR cabronio intake or a short ram intake? and im thinking about techtonics exhaust


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

You have the idea! Carbonio makes anexcellent intake. But if I were to buy another intake, I'd probably go with bsh its so nice! One piece! Metal (wont potentially crack like the carbon) and has a built in maf sensor provision. Its a top notch intake! But I still have always been happy with my carbonio


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## bryce917 (Dec 16, 2008)

Sorry to revisit an old thread but I thought it would be better than starting a new thread and getting a bunch of "use the search function" comments...

I have a couple of questions regarding the APR flash. I looked at the FAQ on GoAPR.com and couldn't find an exact answer.

First, do I need to do the flash after I get a CAI and Exhaust? I'm not yet certain that I'll be getting an exhaust and I haven't decided which CAI I'll go with. I have a stock 2008 Rabbit and no interest in going forced induction... just looking for some more get-up-and-go. Can I get the flash first or will I have to reflash after I put on a CAI and Exhaust?

Second, the price posted on APR's website says it's about $350 for a one program flash. All I need is stock and 93 octane. ECS Tuning is just down the street but they've posted the price as $544. Is there something that I'm missing or are ECS's prices just not that competitive?

Third, if I go with the APR flash do I need to go with the APR Carbonio intake? It looks like the Neuspeed P-flo is mounted higher in the engine bay, which would decrease the likelihood of hydrolocking during bad weather.

Thanks for any help or comments with this.


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## sleeper247 (Oct 2, 2009)

1. you don't need a reflash when you get your intake.

2. check with ECS regarding the price. The price might include a loading fee. I would wait till apr has a sell then the price of the flash drops as well and you can get a fully loaded software. One benefit to apr software is the ability to switch programs.

3. You do not need to use the Carbonio intake. I have neu-speed with apr software.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

The discrepancy with price is the quantity of programs.

For example a single program get the lower price. A single program would consist of 91oct OR 93oct most likely in your scenario.

Once you add a another program you go to the higher price, Stock counts as a program.

Think of it as slots on the ecu you are buying and can fill them with whatever programs you chose. For example if you purchase 1 slot at $350 you can put any 1 program on there, for instance if you choose 91octane that is all you now have, no more stock

If you want more slots, you pay the higher price and fill those slots with the programs of your choosing. Theoretically if you got 2 slots you could put stock & 91, stock & 93, 91 & 93, etc, you could even put stock and stock on if you wanted.





Now the tricky part is the NA versus turbo pricing, Turbo cars are usually $599 and you pay more per additional "slot" a la carte so to say. 

On the NA cars they will usually carry the same price but that includes all the available programs and options, BUT some (such as the mk5 2.5) offer a lower price if you choose to get just one program. 

A lot of this has to do with the fact that the turbo cars are so drastically different power wise a greater percentage of people need to be able to switch back to stock for warranty, where as on the NA cars the gains are not as drastic and rarely present an issue when brought in for dealer service.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

If the op wants anything near 200hp he will never get it from apr

Op talk with the guys at C2 for the SRI plus the tune.

Or jeff at United motorsports.
I had to throw my apr purchase down the toilet and in all honesty you won't use any of their features. I had their full tune.with valet, lock out and anti theft with, stock 91 octane and 93 octane.kept it in 93 and NEVER used any other option.

You won't ever hit 200 with it though.they tend to be conservative with tuning.
Great company, but not the greatest with the 2.5


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

TylerO28 said:


> If the op wants anything near 200hp he will never get it from apr
> 
> Op talk with the guys at C2 for the SRI plus the tune.
> 
> ...


I agree with this, however the OP's question had already been answered, I was simply explaining the APR setup to the person above my response


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## bryce917 (Dec 16, 2008)

...and I thank you for your response, Tom. I'll keep an eye on the APTuning website for any other parts that I'll be ordering. I'm not after 200 hp, just looking to have some more fun. I'll probably move up to a GTi when the MkVII's come out but for now I'm pretty happy with my Rabbit. Now that I paid off the lease and actually own it I can do stuff with it.... not trying to beat anybody, just trying to make the experience better by getting rid of the throttle lag and making it sound a little more aggressive.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

bryce917 said:


> ...and I thank you for your response, Tom. I'll keep an eye on the APTuning website for any other parts that I'll be ordering. I'm not after 200 hp, just looking to have some more fun. I'll probably move up to a GTi when the MkVII's come out but for now I'm pretty happy with my Rabbit. Now that I paid off the lease and actually own it I can do stuff with it.... not trying to beat anybody, just trying to make the experience better by getting rid of the throttle lag and making it sound a little more aggressive.


in that case, you should look into the carbonio intake, an exhaust (not magnaflow because it's 2.25" piping) and the chip!

either APR, c2, United, or unitronic... you will REALLY like the improvement


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## bryce917 (Dec 16, 2008)

TylerO28 said:


> in that case, you should look into the carbonio intake, an exhaust (not magnaflow because it's 2.25" piping) and the chip!
> 
> either APR, c2, United, or unitronic... you will REALLY like the improvement


That's my plan... along with a short shift kit and 42dd shifter bushings. That should be enough to make it a bit more peppy. I'm not sure which exhaust to go with because I don't want it to be loud... just a bit deeper.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

You know the shifter bushings are great, but I'm not a fan of short shifters... do the bushings first, you'll be plenty happy


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

dieselgeek.com for a real shift linkage upgrade :thumbup:

BSH intake, awesomeness. carbonio is really good too but i went with BSH, glad I did as the HEP SRI install was very easy since the BSH still fit just fine, minus a couple inches.

software? whichever one has the highest rev limit!

if you want a really quiet exhaust, just use stock w/cat delete. once you delete the cat there is not really any more power to be made here unless you're going 300+, headers will shift the power band nicely though based on the limited dyno's we've seen.


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