# ABA THROTTLE BODY UPGRADE?



## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

IS THERE ANY SORT OF LARGER THROTTLE BODY THAT I CAN PUT ON MY ABA MOTOR PREFERABLY ONE THAT JUST BOLTS ON?
LET ME KNOW


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## bulldogger72 (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: ABA THROTTLE BODY UPGRADE? (azdubin)*

straight up bolt up? no


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## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

DO U KNOW IF THEY MAKE AN ADAPTER PLATE OR ANYHTING?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

ARE THE SEARCH ARCHIVES BROKEN TODAY?


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

de-hump ur throttle body. works great


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (gtvento13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtvento13* »_de-hump ur throttle body. works great for making your engine go "WHOOOOOM" really loud. You'll be so mezmerised by the powerful sound, you'll completely overlook your low end torque loss.


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## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

really thats good to know ill just dremel it smooth


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

de-hump ur throttle body. works great for making your engine go "WHOOOOOM" really loud. You'll be so mezmerised by the powerful sound, you'll completely overlook your low end torque loss. 
True story http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TurboLover3 (Oct 20, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Salsa GTI)*

Maybe not necessarily de-hump it but rather take the edge off and make them a little smoother. I did it to mine and didn't notice any torque loss but noticed slightly better throttle response http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

Not to mention that the Tb is not quite a restricting in the aba's intake flow. Don't worry about it man


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (ghoastoflyle)*

ok its a 2.0 any kind power is good power
thats a true story.


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## Mr.Pickles (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (ghoastoflyle)*

there are marginal gains (very marginal) but a loss in torque?? im sorry torque has everything to do with intake runner length not making the throttle body even diameter all the way through







anyways its fun to do, wire brush it with the dremel when your done and its gets all nice and smooth like!


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## Genuismensa (May 7, 2008)

why do you want a bigger TB anyways? are you like FI? IF you go too big then you get like 100% engine flow with only say 40% throttle opening. That would mean your throttle position sensor would be worthless. I am fairly confident VW knew a thing or two when they built your intake... But a de-hump and polish is nice but it may throw a CEL like on my car. It ran weird after i did it.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (Mr.Pickles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Pickles* »_there are marginal gains (very marginal) but a loss in torque?? im sorry torque has everything to do with intake runner length not making the throttle body even diameter all the way through







 anyways its fun to do, wire brush it with the dremel when your done and its gets all nice and smooth like!









Until you've run them back to back, your opinion is invalid.
The humps, before and after the throttle plate, are there to increase air velocity into the manifold/head/cylinder at low/part throttle acceleration. That velocity increases low end torque. Removing those kills your throttle response (torque) under normal driving conditions....which constitutes 90% of people's driving habits. 
Go ahead and take em out and report back how your car drives. Unless you launch from a stop or light at WOT throttle every time, this mod is dumb. The humps are still on my tb, and I hit 142whp. Power loss? I don't think so.


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## EastCoastDriftGuy (Jul 31, 2007)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Until you've run them back to back, your opinion is invalid.
The humps, before and after the throttle plate, are there to increase air velocity into the manifold/head/cylinder at low/part throttle acceleration. That velocity increases low end torque. Removing those kills your throttle response (torque) under normal driving conditions....which constitutes 90% of people's driving habits. 
Go ahead and take em out and report back how your car drives. Unless you launch from a stop or light at WOT throttle every time, this mod is dumb. The humps are still on my tb, and I hit 142whp. Power loss? I don't think so. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

If your set on moding your Tb, slim down the profile of your butterfly valve. Gains? most likely not, but it at least makes more sense.


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## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

IM JUST GONNA KEEP IT REAL CLEAN AND THAT WILL BE GOOD


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: (azdubin)*

FACT
The throttle body is the part of the engine that lets air in. It is composed of a flap (often called "butterfly"), which open and close accordingly with how far the gas pedal is pressed. A larger throttle body will allow more air into the engine, thereby improving the performance - both throttle response and horsepower. This upgrade should only be done after you've upgraded the exhaust system.
it may only net 1-3hp but who cares its an awesome diy mod


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (gtvento13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtvento13* »_FACT
This upgrade should only be done after you've upgraded the exhaust system.


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## bulldogger72 (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: (gtvento13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtvento13* »_FACT
The throttle body is the part of the engine that lets air in. It is composed of a flap (often called "butterfly"), which open and close accordingly with how far the gas pedal is pressed. A larger throttle body will allow more air into the engine, thereby improving the performance - both throttle response and horsepower. This upgrade should only be done after you've upgraded the exhaust system.
it may only net 1-3hp but who cares its an awesome diy mod

actually- the larger TB will ceate a condition known as "tip in" (i.e a less crisp throttle response)


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

He's only 19....cut him some slack....


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

all i kno is i did it and i felt better throttle response, it sounded a little different at WOT, and it picked up a little better. good enough for me, or anyone else working on a budget.
the technicalities ur talking about (loss of torque) can't even be felt. *ITS A 2.0* 
god some of you people take things way too seriously http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (gtvento13)*

and again were not port matching here. were "de-humping"


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (gtvento13)*

My humps, my humps, my lovely lady lumps.
That's all I can think of when I hear the word hump.
Hey 2.0 Tech forum: Why soooo serious???


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Jay-Bee)*

thats wat im sayin man








hes only 19 wat is that


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (gtvento13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtvento13* »_all i kno is i did it and i felt better throttle response, it sounded a little different at WOT, and it picked up a little better. good enough for me, or anyone else working on a budget.
the technicalities ur talking about (loss of torque) can't even be felt. *ITS A 2.0* 
god some of you people take things way too seriously http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Ok Captain, You're right, I'm wrong.


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

haha good one


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## catbed (Jun 5, 2008)

de-bumping your TB does NOTHING to your torque.
i sanded mine down with a dremel with 2 different grits. then wetsanded with 400, 800, 100, 1500, and 2000 then hits it up with some mothers power aluminum. the polishing helps cut down on oil gunking and provides a tiny bit smoother air flow.
EDIT: WHY DO YOU YELL ALL OF THE TIME????


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

*Re: (catbed)*

removing the hump shouldnt hurt tq............ and everytime ive put a bigger throttle body on the the throttle response gets really touchy (crisper). if u got an extra t-body i can do it for u if u want

mike


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## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

HEY I LOOKED AT UR PICTURES FOR UR PORTING AND IM LOOKING TO GET MY ABA HEAD PORTED IN THE NEXT COUPLE OF WEEKS AND I WOULD LIKE U TO DO IT WHAT WOULD U CHARGE ME PM ME IM AT WORK SO MY PMS DONT WORK BUT ILL MSG U BACK WHEN I GET HOME


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## tdigenetics (Aug 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

same here i did this mod and drmal the humps out and i had better acceleration, and around 80 to 110 the car picked up a lot faster n smoother then when i didn't do the mod
vtec aint no vdub


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (bulldogger72)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bulldogger72* »_
actually- the larger TB will ceate a condition known as *"tip in" *(i.e a less crisp throttle response)



Tip in is a tuning term used when describing the initial opening of the throttle blade or blades on a multi barrel carb...tip in is followed by a slight lean condition...cured by accelerator pump adjustments or pump jet sizes on carbs...or software tweaks on a injected vehicle.
Now as far as smoothing the throttle body on your 2.0...
It will indeed feel faster as removing the humps.."The Lovely Lady Lumps"
There is a faster transition from closed to open...its a less gradual transition..making part throttle cruise touchy ...
So it will indeed feel faster...by seat of the pants feel....
but actual dyno numbers will prove this to be false..
and on an OBD2 car you will screw the electric idle motors mind..and ..you will hate life.....
The old timers have been there and done that years ago...I'm one of them...
SO smooth away young Jedi.....and feel the Force inside yourself http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
There is a faster transition from closed to open...its a less gradual transition..making part throttle cruise touchy ...
So it will indeed feel faster...by seat of the pants feel....
but actual dyno numbers will prove this to be false..
and on an OBD2 car you will screw the electric idle motors mind..and ..you will hate life.....


Yup. Yup. And, Yup. 
I will say this again....
Under normal driving conditions (which comprise 90% of NORMAL driving) you will have better tip-in acceleration with the humps intact. 
The only motors that will benefit from a larger bore throttle are either forced inducted motors, or ones that have head work and a larger profile cam. Near-stock motors, especially with the stock manifold, will not see an increase with a bored throttle...the stock bore, WITH THE HUMPS INTACT, is large enough. 
But again, what do I know. I have no experience in this ****.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Yup. Yup. And, Yup. 
I will say this again....
Under normal driving conditions (which comprise 90% of NORMAL driving) you will have better tip-in acceleration with the humps intact. 
The only motors that will benefit from a larger bore throttle are either forced inducted motors, or ones that have head work and a larger profile cam. Near-stock motors, especially with the stock manifold, will not see an increase with a bored throttle...the stock bore, WITH THE HUMPS INTACT, is large enough. 
But again, what do I know. I have no experience in this ****. 

One day you will have the knowledge you seek


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## bulldogger72 (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

my knowledge comes first hand -on an all out racecar ( read again-NOT a street car, not from someone elses car)
went from stock obd1 2.0 tb to obd1 vr tb. you had to feather the pedal in the ~lower~ rpms or coming off a hard shift. if you didnt it bogged down big time. w/ the 2.0tb you could just "floor it" w/ no adverse results.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

<----


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## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

I HAVE A BIGGER CAM AND A PORTED HEAD AND WANTED TO PUIT THE MK4 INTAKE MANIFOLD ON IT


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

please take off the caps lock. its annoying.


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## gtvento13 (Oct 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

im f/i now but wen i was n/a (autotech 260, cat-back, CAI, mk4 manifolds, and tt chip) my car ran fine, no idle problems with a de-humped tb.
i understand what u guys are saying now, and i respect ur knowledge. im just sayin it ran fine for me. its just another one of those hit or miss things i geuss


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (bulldogger72)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bulldogger72* »_my knowledge comes first hand -on an all out racecar ( read again-NOT a street car, not from someone elses car)
went from stock obd1 2.0 tb to obd1 vr tb. you had to feather the pedal in the ~lower~ rpms or coming off a hard shift. if you didnt it bogged down big time. w/ the 2.0tb you could just "floor it" w/ no adverse results.

Mainly because the computer has no idea what is happening..Due to the larger than expected throttle opening...
With stand alone you could have dialed that out and it would be perfect...
That is the advantage of stand alone......you can make it bend to your will


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## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

U BEEZY


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## MecE2.0 (Dec 20, 2005)

*Re: (bulldogger72)*

might as well put in my 2 cents:
i actually consulted a prof on this prior to going through with it. before teaching he worked for M-B for 10 years in engine development, so i figured he'd know a thing or 2. he said that the stock design was probably built on 2 premises (i'll paraphrase a little as this turned out to be a lengthy conversation). 1) produce a drivable power band in a wide variety of conditions in combination with the other components of the intake (i assumed he was talking mostly about head design) therefore it needed to move are at a decent rate but also create enough turbulence that at lower flow rates the engine could still achieve a good air/fuel mixture, and 2) to be affordable. the TB is cast with some machining which is much much cheaper than machining on a mass scale, but this can mean less than smooth surfaces (bad for velocity).
cut to my car. i had already made some minor upgrades to the engine (obd1, cam, exhaust) and had looked at this a few times, more just to see what it would actually do. after talking with Dr. K about it i figured why not. now, the people who wrote/commented on the diy claimed better response and better fuel economy so i figured these would be the things i'd look for. i already keep pretty good fuel records, but the butt dyno tends to vary depending on what else i'd been driving lately so that would be arbitrary. after de-ramping i burned 3 tanks and averaged the mileage. i went from 6.5 L/100km to 5.7L/100km and thats with no other changes and i was on the throttle quite a bit testing the response. as far as response went it did feel crisper, i had no problems regulating throttle at low speeds and no problems with bogging (lightened flywheel as well) and my idle is better (holds steady with less loping).
imho the benefits of this mod for performance i are so variant depending on set up and engine condition. guys doing it on otherwise stock motors probably should just leave it be. if you have enough flow via changes to head/valvetrain and the intake/exhaust i think some gains (not necessarily dyno provable) can be seen.
anyways my 2 cents (which is now only worth about 1.6 cents american again). what i'd like to see is some flow number on the mod tho, maybe next semester i can get some lab time and check it out.


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## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

the better mod rather than messing with the throuttle body would be to save a small amount of funds and invest into the longer runner manifold if you want more power/economy. the aeg intake and exhaust manifolds would help the engine out enough and if you spend some time port matching everything then you will see good power increases through out the power band in a nice smooth fashion.
the throuttle body porting can make better increases hear and there but odds are it will not be a smooth transition and or through the entire power band, would imagion the air fuel mixture might change but the last thing you want to do is loose the velocity of the air. tat is the meal ticket for good power band rather than just an engine made to have a short spert of power, best idea would be to leave the throttle body alone and do the intake manifold from the aeg, you will see good torque gains


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## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: (jetta2dr16v)*

i do not agree with the idea that the 'less than smooth surfaces can be bad for velocity'
if for instance you take 2 identical heads, to use a bigger scale, and one you leave stock and the other you polish the intake runner, the stock heads velocity will not only be higher but the slightly rouchfactory cast helps with the mixture of the fuel. not everything being smooth is a good thing. a throuttle body maybe but also a venturi would be an idea of the ultimate 'roughness' you could do, it grabs the air and forces it to become have a fulcrum point but helps greatly with velocity
the idea i always keep in my head is that 'why would the factory not have done that?'
the answer is often it is an economy car but for a 2.0l engines throuttle body, it would cost them northing more to have no humps in the throttle body, the reason i would imagion would be both milage and velocity. 
but thats just my $0.02


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## vwnut18t (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (azdubin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *azdubin* »_I HAVE A BIGGER CAM AND A PORTED HEAD AND WANTED TO PUIT THE MK4 INTAKE MANIFOLD ON IT

I am local and have done all of said items in this thread and achieved respectable numbers from my ABA's. Not claiming to be better than anybody because this is where I learned the do's and don'ts from. Tdogg was always 3 steps ahead of me when I was doing the mods. When I acheived 123 whp and 132 wtq I was stoked, then Tdogg posted up what he got and crushed me








I have both intake and exhaust manifolds from an AEG ready to go so if you are looking to increase performance than let me know. 
As far as the TB, I had mixed results. One of which was drivability. If you do to much the engine will gulp and show a slight lag at lower RPM's. If you just take the edge off the humps I feel it is much better and will maintain the velocity affect http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (vwnut18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwnut18t* »_If you do to much the engine will gulp and show a slight lag at lower RPM's. 

Thats actually a good way to put it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## azdubin (Sep 15, 2008)

*Re: (vwnut18t)*

really good to know vwnut18t ill keep in touch with you


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