# no ecu ,just msd and cis! but could it be done? that is



## 8716v (Sep 10, 2006)

just a thought but could it be done? that is run no ecu but just run a msd off the dizzy with a staight manual cis injection? would be like a carbuator but with cis. what are your thoughts? and would i still need to run the bosch ignition module or just trigger the msd right from the dizzy?


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## WackyWabbitRacer (Apr 24, 2001)

*Re: no ecu ,just msd and cis! but could it be done? that is (8716v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8716v* »_would i still need to run the bosch ignition module 

I would recommend using the Bosch Hall-Effect ignition module. 
From experience, I know the MSD can be triggered without the ignition module but the Hall-Effect pickup sensor in the distributor has great exposure to premature failure without the ignition module.
Cheers, WWR.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: no ecu ,just msd and cis! but could it be done? that is (WackyWabbitRacer)*

so you're looking to do a cis basic setup then? cis never handled ignition until motronic to begin with.


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## 8716v (Sep 10, 2006)

*Re: no ecu ,just msd and cis! but could it be done? that is (ziddey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ziddey* »_so you're looking to do a cis basic setup then? cis never handled ignition until motronic to begin with.

i know the cis doesnt handle the ignition. but as far as the igniton goes even on the basic cis setup all the vw that i have had run some sort of ecu for the ignition side. just wondering if that was just for idle control and ac kick up and that sort of thing. im looking to just do a simple setup since i dont have any ac or idle cotrol or smog or anything like that. im thinking it can be done. looking for some one that would know what those ecu"s really did in the early setups.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

*Re: no ecu ,just msd and cis! but could it be done? that is (8716v)*

I think you're mixing up what people refer to as an ECU (fuel and/or ignition control) with that small 7 pin "box" in the electronic ignition systems (ignition control module). These began being installed on engines when the electronic ignition showed up (Hall sensor ignitions). Same as they did on US vehicles, like MOPAR, and other imports using electronic ignitions. They don't really control anything but is more or less an electronic switch to handle what the points did in older ignitions. Unless you are running some drastic cylinder pressure the factory electronic ignition with vacuum/mechanical advance is about as basic, simple and efficient as it gets.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: no ecu ,just msd and cis! but could it be done? that is (8716v)*

I ran that very setup in my Rabbit for 15-16yrs, but with the points dizzy. The good thing is the points would last for a long time, as there is very little current flow to cause the contacts to burn, it was actually the rub block or the pivot bushing on the points that would fail long before the contacts. I would just set them and leave them till I noticed problems. Adn I am still using that same MSD-5 box with my MS, but I did switch to a digi dizzy for the MS.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: no ecu ,just msd and cis! but could it be done? that is (ps2375)*

The jetronic ecu provides "better driveability" but is not crucial to the operation of cis. It handles closed loop operation, using o2 sensor feedback to keep the mixture around stoich, allows operation of idle boost valves/isv to provide proper idle under all load/cold conditions, and provides cold enrichment based on cts (cis-e).
The original cis basic was purely mechanical with no ecu. It uses a mechanical valve to control cold enrichment, and sounds like what you're wanting to have.


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## 8716v (Sep 10, 2006)

what i was running was a straight mechanical cis setup and the stock 16v computer for the ignition. but i was just wondering if i could take that computer out of the loop and run the msd off the hall sender with fixed timing. just brain storming.might just doit for the hell of it to see.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (8716v)*

Ok you're talking about the knock box. Most people do the upgrade from mechanical advance to knock box setup but yes you can remove that and either use fixed timing via your existing distributor or swap a mechanical advance one


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (ziddey)*

The latest version of the MSD 6AL box, the 6AL-2, has a built in programmable timing computer. They cost about $150 more than the standard 6AL box but that gets you a lot of added flexibility.


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