# Progression: Corrado VRT



## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

Just figured I'd post my cars power progress.

I went to Moon Performance in Lake Placid, NY this past weekend for a few Dyno pulls on my current setup. Taylor at Moon is a great guy and its always good to see apples to apples as I have had all three turbo setups on the same Dyno. 

Car is a 1993 Corrado VR6 Turbo with an 8.5:1 spacer, 140kmi bottom end running on OBD2. 

First was the 6psi, 30#, 2.5" w/cat and no I/C

225WHP










Next was 26psi, 40#, 2.5" w/ I/C and cat

327WHP
347WTQ





 
Graph shows this pull versus the previous setup:









Currently it is 20psi, 40#, 3" Turbo back

386WHP
345WTQ





 
Graph shows this pull versus the previous setup:


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## Bluegrape2 (Mar 3, 2012)

Nice , thanks for the usefull info. Is this with a t3/t4? I made very close numbers with my old Kinetic Stage III with C2 42# SW


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

The first two were with the kinetic turbo. The third is with a Garett T67


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## joshisapunk (Oct 1, 2004)

Seems a little low for 20psi out of a T67....and are they 40lb injectors like your post says, or 42lb? 

Which turbine housing? 

Just asking because i'm running a T67 with a .69ar T4 turbine and 60lb injectors. From what i've read, 20psi should be 400+ whp. But maybe i m way off.


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## 02vwgolf (Oct 6, 2009)

Awesome to see people up in lake placid still in the vw scene, I used to live in Saranac Lake and rarely saw modded vw's! I wasnt even aware there was a dyno in LP... 

Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

You're right, 42# injectors and c2 software. 

Yeah, I've read a lot of that too but haven't seen plots to back up a number. 

I'm using the wrong cams too I believe, need to go back to something with less overlap, currently using TT 268s.


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

02vwgolf said:


> Awesome to see people up in lake placid still in the vw scene, I used to live in Saranac Lake and rarely saw modded vw's! I wasnt even aware there was a dyno in LP...
> 
> Sent from my VS840 4G using Tapatalk 2


 I'm actually from the Saratoga area but went to Clarkson for school where our auto club used to pay for dyno days. I've been on this particular dyno twice before and wanted to see straight power comparisons with dyno inaccuracies removed. 

Moon Performance is actually right behind Hoffman Auto Repair near the airport in Placid. Owned by the same guy and I believe has been there for at least 6 years.


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

Here's a pull I did on 10psi with the current setup



http://youtu.be/_xzUlwvcIvQ


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

jeez what hotside are you running? That is a very weak power curve...unless you plan on reving to 7500...


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

.82 I believe. 

Maybe you can fill me in a bit on TT 268* cams? Is the overlap to high for turbo applications?


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

crusinvw said:


> .82 I believe.
> 
> Maybe you can fill me in a bit on TT 268* cams? Is the overlap to high for turbo applications?


 no no, boosted VR's love them things!


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> no no, boosted VR's love them things!


 x2 
We made 540whp @ 21psi with TT 288s


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

*268s VS 288s...* 

the whole area under the curve is better with the 268s... 

....120 more TQ, and 100 more HP at 4500 rpm.


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

Ok, thank you. This is good information. 

I'm not sure what would cause a late power curve like mine. A small boost leak until the turbo over powers it? Can position/ crank position going bad?


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> *268s VS 288s...*
> 
> the whole area under the curve is better with the 268s...
> 
> ....120 more TQ, and 100 more HP at 4500 rpm.


The power also drops off after 6k with the 288s, which leads me to believe it's a mild setup, probably small turbo, or at least small hotside.


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## marat_g60 (Mar 5, 2003)

That just doesnt look right, my setup pulls to 8000 with very little drop in power past 7000.

Blue line is stock cams, SC61 T4 .81 hotside 23psi, red line is with 268 cams everything else the same 21psi










This is with 288 cams, 6766 T4 .81 Hotside around 20psi, this sheet isnt the greatest as it had a blip in top end, but there is no way I lost 100wheel torque or hp


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

Are you guys saying that the shape of the curve itself looks off or, are you guys saying that the curve when compared to the graph looks off?

It is very possible that the gearing ratio used on the dyno is off. I'm also using an O2A from a DE GTi which is not original to the car. Pulls were done in third gear on the dyno. 

As far as the turbo, I believe it's a .82 hot side. It is a t3 T67 Garett journal turbo on 42# injectors and c2 software, 2.5" charge piping, c2 quikflow SRI, and 3" DP/turbo back exhaust. 8.5:1 spacer, TT268 cams. 

What other information is useful for you guys to know? 

And again, I appreciate the info. Thanks


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

sp_golf said:


> The power also drops off after 6k with the 288s, which leads me to believe it's a mild setup, probably small turbo, or at least small hotside.


that was a mild tuning 14psi base run. He makes 796AWHP on a 6766 T4 .81a/r right now....try again


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

crusinvw said:


> Are you guys saying that the shape of the curve itself looks off or, are you guys saying that the curve when compared to the graph looks off?
> 
> It is very possible that the gearing ratio used on the dyno is off. I'm also using an O2A from a DE GTi which is not original to the car. Pulls were done in third gear on the dyno.
> 
> ...


 t3 is gonna choke u


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> that was a mild tuning 14psi base run. He makes 796AWHP on a 6766 T4 .81a/r right now....try again


Strange how the power is dropping off at 6k. Check out Marat's dyno sheets he posted above, he's only losing about 30-40wtq in the mid range over the 268s. 
On the 288s it made 400 and change @ 14psi and the power was holding past 7500.. also a mild tune on pump gas.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

sp_golf said:


> Strange how the power is dropping off at 6k. Check out Marat's dyno sheets he posted above, he's only losing about 30-40wtq in the mid range over the 268s.
> On the 288s it made 400 and change @ 14psi and the power was holding past 7500.. also a mild tune on pump gas.


it dips at 7k. depends on headwork as well...his rev limit is set at 7250 to keep things together


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> it dips at 7k. depends on headwork as well...his rev limit is set at 7250 to keep things together


I was talking about the 14psi run


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

sp_golf said:


> I was talking about the 14psi run


again all in the tune. my 8vT setup was *identical *to my friends and on my base tune my power would die at 6400 and his would die at 7300...


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

Maybe I'm just hitting the limitations of c2 software?

The head is also completely stock


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

crusinvw said:


> Maybe I'm just hitting the limitations of c2 software?
> 
> The head is also completely stock


i told you the t3 is choking you. switch to t4 .82a/r


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

crusinvw said:


> Maybe I'm just hitting the limitations of c2 software?
> 
> The head is also completely stock


people have made almost 200 more hp on that software.

it looks like there is a restriction, or timing issue on your car. power seems to be coming on late, and not as hard as it should.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

TBT-Syncro said:


> people have made almost 200 more hp on that software.
> 
> it looks like there is a restriction, or timing issue on your car. power seems to be coming on late, and not as hard as it should.


I agree with this. Jake, what kind of vac do you see at idle? Wondering if your cam timing isn't slightly off... it's easy to do.


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

17-20"


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> again all in the tune. my 8vT setup was *identical *to my friends and on my base tune my power would die at 6400 and his would die at 7300...


So why compare parts when the engine is not tuned properly?


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

sp_golf said:


> So why compare parts when the engine is not tuned properly?


because you're comparing parts. leave everything else the same. swap right there on the dyno and run again.

Murat's is almost useless. you're comparing a SC61 w/ 268s at 21psi to a 6766 w/288s at 20psi. Two different turbos, two different boost levels.:screwy:


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> because you're comparing parts. leave everything else the same. swap right there on the dyno and run again.
> 
> Murat's is almost useless. you're comparing a SC61 w/ 268s at 21psi to a 6766 w/288s at 20psi. Two different turbos, two different boost levels.:screwy:


It's also useless to compare parts when the tune is not optimized for those parts. The fact that the 288s only made 350whp @ 14psi just shows me that the tune is very conservative. I don't doubt that it lost all that power on that tune, but if you were to dial it in on the 268s, then swap them out and dial in the tune on the 288s, the results would be a lot different. 
Either way, the 288s aren't meant for low-mid range RPM at low boost.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Ok ^^that discussion isnt going to go anywhere but back and forth for days. It's done.


Back to the OP:


Cruisin, 

When's the last time you checked for leaks? Check boost piping, couplers, manifolds, turbine housing. For 14psi, on a T3 .82, on a VR, that's horribly late.


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## sp_golf (Nov 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Ok ^^that discussion isnt going to go anywhere but back and forth for days. It's done.


Yup.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> Cruisin,
> 
> When's the last time you checked for leaks? Check boost piping, couplers, manifolds, turbine housing. For 14psi, on a T3 .82, on a VR, that's horribly late.


for reference, with my GT35 .82ar T3, i'm making boost around 2500, with 'real' boost below 3500. (and i have big lumpy cams)


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## crusinvw (Mar 8, 2005)

I checked when I put it together about 3 months ago. 

Once I get back from h2o this is the first think I plan on doing. 

I did have a small hole post TB that made the A/F go to 17+. Once plugged, it sits at 14.5-15 all day at idle. 

I'm hoping its as simple as a vac leak, but I would assume the car would run worse. 

I'll report back in a few days.

BTW, thank you guys for getting back on track.


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## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> i told you the t3 is choking you. switch to t4 .82a/r


This man speaks the truth :thumbup:

I'm running a turbonetics T67 with a .81a/r and the PO put down 491 on 18lbs(IIRC) with the 
#42 setup.

I've also got a .57 and a .96 hotside sitting in the garage for it. :screwy:


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