# Minimalist Functionality - a VRT build / internals guide



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Long story short - I broke a few things on the track. I'm not about to give up on my VRT, so I decided to jump in and rebuild the motor + strengthen the trans a bit. 

This time around I'm going to try and avoid the machine shop / engine builder as much as possible and do most of this myself. I have an engineering background but consider myself new to engine building, so if you see something wrong please speak up and save my ass. Plz and thank u!

As the title states, I'm a bit of a minimalist but ease of access and function > form are definitely always in my mind.

So - on with the build. Originally, the car was a stock BDF VR6 with 9:1 head spacer and elements of Kinetic's stage 3 turbo kit. now I'm going with.....

*BDF VR6 short block w/ BUB R32 head*

Precision 6466 turbo w/ T4 divided .84
JDL 24v twin scroll turbo manifold (w/ dual TiAL MV-R's)
3" stainless vband downpipe / exhaust
JE pistons 83mm @ 8.5:1 (~2931cc) (coated)
Integrated Engineering tuscan connecting rods (rifle drilled)
OE main bearings & Calico coated rifle drilled rod bearings
Shrick 272/272 cams w/ Ferrea HD valves, springs, retainers etc.
ARP fasteners everywhere (flywheel, clutch, main studs, head studs, exhaust manifold studs, etc)
United Motorsport 870cc ProMaf software w/ LC and NLS
Siemens 870cc injectors w/ 034 billet fuel rail and Radium 044 dual surge tank
Rothe Motorsport cast aluminum intake manifold
AWD conversion (via a write off MK1 Audi TT)
02M DRP transmission + USP steel shift forks + wavetrac LSD front & rear + cryo treated

+ stuff....


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## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

great build! can't wait to see more!

you said you want to stay away from the machine shop, what about a port and polish on the head, there is a good amount of power hidden there just from a P & P


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

35i 2000 said:


> you said you want to stay away from the machine shop, what about a port and polish on the head, there is a good amount of power hidden there just from a P & P


Yeah you're right I probably should.

I got to do a little disassembly today after work....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

did work on the head finally..... I'm working crazyman hours it's hard to get anything done.

I used the universal overhead valve spring compressor & valve stem seal removal pliers from Techtonics.

tip: if the keepers won't come free from the retainers, sit a socket on top of it and give it a few whacks with a rubber mallet. they should come loose after that.










Below you can see how the keepers sit in the grooves on the valve, with the spring and retainer.


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Watching this :thumbup: Thanks for sharing :beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I dropped off the block and head @ the machine shop - and this is what I asked em to do:

- hot tank & magnaflux the block
- seat valves, check guides
- tap & plug a few holes that aren't needed anymore
- bore / hone cylinders
- deck the head / block


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Had to order new intermediate shaft bearings - turns out a hot tank will completely eat those bearings up. For some reason the dealers around here couldn't find the part in the computer, but I eventually found them @ Techtonics :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

crappy news....

machine shop called and let me know my BDF head was toast. After they got it cleaned up they found tons of cracks by the spark plug holes and some of the oil passages apparently, still gotta drive over and check it out. I'm not the original owner, and I bought the car salvaged... so who knows what may have happened in the past.

SOOO......

WTB 24V BDF HEAD

:banghead:


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Get an .:R head, since you need a new one anyhow :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

GRN6IX said:


> Get an .:R head, since you need a new one anyhow :thumbup:


yeahhhh.... I wish. that's about $3k I don't have cuz I'd need a new SRI, fuel rail, injectors, throttle body and tuning. 

but - I may have found a clean / decked BDF head that I can just swap on so I'm probably gonna go that route for now.


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Forgot you had all those parts already... Good luck getting it running!


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## Ld7w_VR (Apr 21, 2006)

Pm'd


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

got the derelict head back today. I always had a little bit of oil in those exact same spark plug passages..... even when I replaced the seals. Now I know why. Still, it pulled ~450 WHP @ 18psi like that for about 2 years.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

opinions on lightweight crank pulleys for a VR6? 

I see a lot of "heresay" online but no one actually piping up and saying something like.... "yep - a lightweight pulley fried my main bearings and killed my crank". There are also lots of posts warning against an undampened pulley, especially in a "daily driven forced induction" type situation. 

Anyone have some real world experience?


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## VW_OwneR_85 (Jul 31, 2010)

good stuff m8, keep it up!!:beer:


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## edeher721 (Aug 20, 2012)

nice build so far. any chance you can share some good info/ pics on the upper and lower timing when you get there? especially that adjustable cam gear. eace:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

edeher721 said:


> nice build so far. any chance you can share some good info/ pics on the upper and lower timing when you get there? especially that adjustable cam gear. eace:


 np :thumbup: 

update: just waiting on pistons now from JE. Till then I'm polishing stuff. :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Update: Strep throat + boredom + too much PS3 + buffing wheel = shiny n stuff. And yes, my beater is a Honda. Don't hate!


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## edeher721 (Aug 20, 2012)

that looks like my element key.lol
no hate they are bad ass.


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## vwmeater (May 3, 2004)

Yeah... read about reputation of lightweight crank pulley... I got mine from ECS and I've got 40k miles added since installation. I'm not FI but engine rev to 6.5-7k quite often. Check signature for mod. I'm attending occasionnal track day and got 131k miles on the engine. No sign of degradation or failure of some sort!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^ thanks.

_update:_

I set this weekend aside to tackle the Peloquin installation.

Here it is... the 02M in all it's (dirty) glory:























































That took about 30 mins - so far so good. Now I'm gonna take a pizza / beer break and I'll get back at it in a few :beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

21/64"










1/2" to get the caps off










One small hiccup - my old 1/2" titanium bit finally dulled out. Gotta get a cobalt bit tomorrow.

And I finally got to compare my new USP shift forks with stock..... they look 100x stronger than OE.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

The longest part of this whole operation was drilling out the rivets - I spent about 2 hours carefully drilling em out. Now it's time to get the ring gear off..... air hammer + BFH did the job.




























mmmmm.... new peloquin...... sex.










I threw the ring gear in the oven for 45 mins @ 300 F, then dropped it right on the LSD. After it slipped on I used the 4 bolts supplied to equally tighten ring gear all the way down.










I was all ready to install the final bolts and torque em down when I realized that I don't have the right 12 point socket

:banghead:

gotta pick that up tomorrow.....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

The diff + ring are all torqued up. I'm gonna visit a local transmission shop tomorrow so they can press the new bearings on for me. 










In the meantime I scrubbed the case clean and gave it a new paint job:


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## blevs17 (Jun 3, 2010)

awesome build. i wish i had the time and cash to do this one. and a daily, as my 24v is my daily


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

blevs17 said:


> awesome build. i wish i had the time and cash to do this one. and a daily, as my 24v is my daily


 do as I do (or did). Scan the vortex classifieds and ebay religiously for good parts, scoop em up a few at a time and bam! 2 years later you've got what you need. Oh- I also got a lot of good deals on parts from people & companies slangin at shows too.... 

update: 
Got my new head. Looks good so far. Took it apart this past weekend and it's at the machine shop for round 2. Hopefully **** goes smoother this time..... 

Also finished the Peloquin install. I was gonna post pics but it's just a black 02M case now, nothin to look at really. It was way easier than I thought, so if you're thinking of DIY-ing it I say jump in. 

Pistons should be coming this week sometime. Now it's just a matter of making sure I have all the right bolts / gaskets / fluids yadayadayada


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

JE pistons


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## Snitches Get Stitches (Jul 21, 2007)

Nice build. If you need an extra 24v 2.8L head, I have one off my motor(I went R32 head). No VVT electrics, but everything else including cams are in there. 
When you go to install your pistons, you will need a VW Vr6 piston ring compression tool due to the VR's inherent design. Check all your clearances with some plastiguage and you are good to go. 
Your internals look similar to my build, so if you have any questions or want that head for cheap, IM me. 
Good luck!!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks^ 

Would the VW tool (VW-3278) work with oversize pistons?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> yeahhhh.... I wish. that's about $3k I don't have cuz I'd need a new SRI, fuel rail, injectors, throttle body and tuning.


It won't cost that much. 

I have a 3.2 and a 2.8 head for sale. I can also help out with 6x630cc Siemens injectors, R throttle body, R fuel rail with AN fitting welded on, and a aeromotive FPR.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...8-24v-VR6-Head-and-HPI-Baja(1-5-scale-RC-Car)

Pics of fuel parts: http://imgur.com/a/Hc7S0


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Jo|\| said:


> It won't cost that much.


I don't see how, unless you wanna give me a real nice deal  U wanna give me a real nice deal? I'd have to pass on the fuel rail tho, and I already have an adjustable FPR.

Anyone know if I can modify my BDF short runner to bolt up with the R head? Is it really just one bolt difference? If I could modify my existing short runner then maybe....


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Here are some pics of a 2.8 and 3.2 head, don't let the orientation fool you. I flipped the images so the heads are right side up. In the pics the 2.8 is at the top of the image. http://imgur.com/a/a9JCD

Securing them to the head I think they are the same, just fewer bolts on the 3.2

The main problems are going to be intake port size/shape, fuel rail clearance, and angle on the mounting surface(intake/head).

I would talk with UM and get their opinion on mounting your SRI to a 3.2. They might even let you swap it for a 3.2, who knows.

You could always stay with the 2.8 head. It just takes a more psi for the same power.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks ^. that solves that, then!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Almossttt there..... this is taking longer than planned :banghead:

so all I did was bore / hone the block, deck block + head, seat valves, and a mild port n polish. Mains (with the studs) didn't need to be line-honed, they were perfect, and all the valve guides were great too :thumbup:


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## edeher721 (Aug 20, 2012)

the engine spins it clockwise right? so it must be counter clockwise....i used to think these things were pressed on and had to be pulled off.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

edeher721 said:


> the engine spins it clockwise right? so it must be counter clockwise....i used to think these things were pressed on and had to be pulled off.


nah sry...... I ended up finding a way to get it off. I balanced the alternator pulley on a piece of wood, held the inner spline in along the ground with a 12 point & breaker bar with my foot, and pulled with both hands on the pulley with a wrench till I almost fell backwards.... it came loose finally. And it was counter clockwise. That was a sonofabitch tho.... (even after lubing it up a few times) it had to have been seized with rust or whatever else. It took a LOT of force to get it off


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## edeher721 (Aug 20, 2012)

damn. well congrats, looking forwARD to seeing your results


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

sigh. another problem...

I had my parts and motor at two machine shops, and one of them lost the little oil nozzles / squirters that go underneath the main caps in the block..... I'm very very organized (labelled baggies with bolts etc, everything related stays together in the same box, I attach the bolts to their parts, etc etc) and I've looked in all my boxes and I don't have them.

Worst case scenario, if my machine shop(s) can't locate them - is that something I can grab through the dealer? Anyone know?

oh also - the bentley is saying to replace the speed wheel on the crank if removed.... which seems kinda odd to me. Do I have to pay for a new one or can I re-use? (it looks 100% fine)


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## mulk (Feb 12, 2011)

Triger wheel bolts need to bee renued, not the wheel.
021 103 157 A is oil sray jet part code, 15€ each


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^^ :beer:

over here they cost ~$35 each. I'm gonna go after the machine shop for that on Monday..... that's way too much to cover myself considering I paid them cash on the spot, no problem - I was a good customer.

:banghead:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

both machine shops say they don't have the oil squirters. 

Now I'm out ~$200, plus I tested my alternator (it was giving me "Alternator Workshop" messages on the dash every so often) and I'm gonna have to get it re-built.

fun fun.


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## vr6dubnut12 (Nov 4, 2008)

watching this! good work so far!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I can confirm the oil squirter part # is 021-103-157-A. 6 are needed. Also the speed wheel screws are part # 021-105-229. They are torque to yield so they must be replaced. They are stupidly soft so if you ever need to replace them be very very careful. I also confirmed that the Bentley says to replace the speed wheel when removed, but mine looked 100% fine so I kept it.


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## VR Sparta! (Oct 22, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


>


Awesome progress, btw what exactly is that process there? Are you checking something or cutting it?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

VR Sparta! said:


> Awesome progress, btw what exactly is that process there? Are you checking something or cutting it?


Because of the 15° angle of the cylinders you can't use a normal ring compressor, they will not sit flush on the vr6 block. 

He is using the piston as a guide to mark where he needs to trim the ring compressor so the piston/rings can be installed correctly.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

All the rings are on. I put the oil rings in by hand, and used a ring expander to install the 1st and 2nd compression rings. It took a little bit of time - but I managed not to break any rings and they are all clocked + ready for installation into the block.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

drilled the block for crankcase evac (23/32") and installed new freeze plugs + intermediate shaft & bearings. I admit... I was a tad nervous doing this 










45 deg 1/2" NPT to -10AN. I also used high temp thread sealant on the fitting and JB weld on the outside.


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## nevernotrolling1131 (Apr 13, 2010)

Like what I'm seeing so far cant wait to see it when its done.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

checked clearances (double checked with plasti-gauge too)



















lubed up the main and rod bearings with some assembly lube:










034 coated mains



















At first I tried using my grinded down ring compressor but quickly got pissed off with it..... I ended up manually guiding the rings in with my finger tips and a flathead with a vacuum cap on it. The angle of the bore actually makes it doing this way really easy.... as you can slip in ~1/2 of one side of the piston / rings and just compress the other side against the cylinder bore.... and after that the piston slides right down.










What's the best way to turn the crank a bit at this stage? (without flywheel or crank pulley) I need to rotate it just a bit to get at a couple rod bolts, all but two are torqued up cuz I can't quite reach them properly.

arp main studs = 60 ft-lbs in 3 equal steps
arp rod bolts = 40 ft-lbs


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> 034 coated mains installed:


Any issues with the main clearances being too tight with the coating?



24vGTiVR6 said:


> What's the best way to turn the crank a bit at this stage? (without flywheel or crank pulley) I need to rotate it just a bit to get at a couple rod bolts, all but two are torqued up cuz I can't quite reach them properly.


Load up on lube, grab a counter weight, and start rotating. Or put 2 of the flywheel bolts in and get a breaker bar for leverage. Like this.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Jo|\| said:


> Any issues with the main clearances being too tight with the coating?


No clearance issues. I double checked with plastigauge as well.



Jo|\| said:


> Or put 2 of the flywheel bolts in and get a breaker bar for leverage. Like this.


:beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

engine is @ TDC. Line up the ground down tooth on the crank so its parallel to the main caps, this will bring you to top dead center. I randomly found the old crank bolt when I was looking for old flywheel bolts, so I just used that bolt to turn the crank over to where it needed to be.



















oil pump


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

installed the lower chain, guide and intermediate sprockets. after setting TDC, line up the chains and intermediate sprockets with the mark on the thrust bearing (I always go with 12 o'clock - and the thrust bearing can only be installed one way so it's hard to mess up). A new stretch bolt for the intermediate sprockets is required - torque to 44 ft-lbs plus a 1/4 (90 degree) turn. All the guide pins & tensioner bolts get torqued to 10 N-m.




























reset the lower tensioner by sticking a small screw driver in the hole and pushing to the left (if I remember right), plus push down on the tensioner at the same time and it will compress all the way down - you will have to hold it there as you install it. if you get a new tensioner however you don't have to worry about any of that, as it will come with a metal pin that keeps it compressed as you install it in place.










I just held the tensioner tight with my fingers and installed it in place.... then torqued up the bolts to 10 N-m.










Upper and lower chains installed:










Line up the arrows on the hydraulic adjusters with the notches on the housing:

intake









exhaust









there must be 16 rollers of the chain between each mark / arrow on the adjusters:










flywheel with arp bolts (blue loctite on the threads with arp moly lube applied under the head, and torqued to 70 ft-lbs)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

fx400 6 puck










NLS slave shim kit and a new slave. (I was experiencing *these issues* before - hope the shim kit works)


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## Bluegrape2 (Mar 3, 2012)

Nice build! Def looks like you know what you are doing. Why do you have your NPT oil return facing down? Would it not drain "easier" if it was facing up? Not sure if i'm looking at it right in the pic , just something I noticed. What are your power goals w/ build? :beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Bluegrape2 said:


> Nice build! Def looks like you know what you are doing. Why do you have your NPT oil return facing down? Would it not drain "easier" if it was facing up? Not sure if i'm looking at it right in the pic , just something I noticed. What are your power goals w/ build? :beer:


Actually this is the first time I'm doing something this extensive to a motor.... I've done timing chains, clutch jobs, some head work, turbo conversions, suspension & exhaust work etc - but I have to consider myself a noob when it comes to engine building. This thread is as much for me as it is for anyone else.

I'm just shooting for mid 500's for now, which is probably a bit too much for FWD. I'm trying to find an S4 shell to do an AWD conversion though.... then I can go for more with some quattro grip.

The NPT fitting is facing up, the motor was upside down on the engine stand in that pic. I'll take some more pics of the drain when it's done, although I may have to change the fitting again depending on how the drain path will ultimately be.


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## 6765VR6 (Jul 30, 2009)

I know I'm late, but ill share anyway. I would avoid a lightweight crank pulley for sure. My car made over 900 to the wheels (bdf tall block) with the stock crank pulley, so it's not going to be an issue on a turbo car. ATI should be releasing a damper for these motors pretty soon too, I would recommend that over a lightweight pulley for sure. Very cool build, I'm keeping an eye on it for updates.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

6765VR6 said:


> I know I'm late, but ill share anyway. I would avoid a lightweight crank pulley for sure. My car made over 900 to the wheels (bdf tall block) with the stock crank pulley, so it's not going to be an issue on a turbo car. ATI should be releasing a damper for these motors pretty soon too, I would recommend that over a lightweight pulley for sure. Very cool build, I'm keeping an eye on it for updates.


I actually sent an email to ATI maybe a couple weeks ago, no reply at all. :thumbdown:

Regarding the lw pulley - can you explain your reasoning a bit more? I appreciate the info, I just want to know why you advise against it.


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## 6765VR6 (Jul 30, 2009)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> I actually sent an email to ATI maybe a couple weeks ago, no reply at all. :thumbdown:
> 
> Regarding the lw pulley - can you explain your reasoning a bit more? I appreciate the info, I just want to know why you advise against it.


OEM crank pulleys are dampers usually, designed to eat up vibration. Switching to a solid aluminum crank pulley, and losing the damper, just seems like a way to end up with premature bearing wear, especially on a high torque turbo VR motor. Not to mention that VR's ate fairly well known for spinning rod bearings. As for the ati damper, I've been waiting so long already. They should finally be released pretty soon, that is going to be your best bet without question. I'm sure once they are available, you'll see it posted somewhere, otherwise, when I get word it's available, ill let you know.


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## vr-vagman (May 15, 2010)

http://www.atiracing.com/products/da...mper_dinan.htm
http://www.atiracing.com/products/dampers/101/index.htm


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

so after a great couple days progress I've been pushed back a few steps. my buddy was over at the garage with a few other friends and as I was assembling / clocking the turbo he picked up the compressor housing and accidentally dropped it. Now it's got a nice crack and a chunk missing so it's toast. Where can I get a new ported s housing for a 6262 dbb? google isn't helping me at all - can any PTE dealer grab one?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

It would probably be easiest to go straight to Precision. Any company you talk to would probably have to call them to order just the housing anyway.

Any of the turbo forum advertisers, like PAG or CTS, could probably order it also.


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## 6765VR6 (Jul 30, 2009)

Yep, you can call precision direct, or any dealer can get it. The dealers have the ability to give you a better deal though. Precision direct will be msrp.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

does anyone know what heli coil / tap / drill size to use for the transmission mount > transmission bracket? (highlighted in green)


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> does anyone know what heli coil / tap / drill size to use for the transmission mount > transmission bracket? (highlighted in green)


I just put helicoils in mine a few weeks back. I'll get you the kit number when I get home.


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Jo|\| said:


> I just put helicoils in mine a few weeks back. I'll get you the kit number when I get home.


There a quite a few kits out there. I can't seem to find the exact helicoil one I have.

The one you want is M12x1.5 Be sure to get one with a tap, there are even a few out there that include the correct size drill bit.

Kit: 37120
Drill: 31/64

Each hole will need 2 helicoils, so 4 total for the mount.


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## nevernotrolling1131 (Apr 13, 2010)

You are going to love that clutch! I have a Fx400 on my 12v and I absolutely love it!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Jo|\| said:


> The one you want is M12x1.5


ty sir!



nevernotrolling1131 said:


> You are going to love that clutch! I have a Fx400 on my 12v and I absolutely love it!


yep I agree, I had this same setup previously and decided to go with it again. :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

note: the oil rings aren't gapped in the photo - they must be gapped 120 degrees from each other. I always do this right before I install the housing as they may get mis-aligned during cam installation. 

Torque the cam caps to 44 inch-lbs + 45 degree turn in the correct sequence (grab a Bentley). Make sure the numbers on the caps are readable from the intake side of the motor. I lubed the lobes with assembly lubricant, and engine oil to lube where the caps will sit. 





































Turn the inner black ring clockwise all the way before installing: 










Cam adjusters get bolted down @ 44ft-lbs + 1/4 turn. (always replace cam adjuster stretch bolts)


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## 6765VR6 (Jul 30, 2009)

Contact Issam at INA for information. I got my unit for testing from him last week. It is a fluidampr, not ATI.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

6765VR6 said:


> Contact Issam at INA for information. I got my unit for testing from him last week. It is a fluidampr, not ATI.


 good lookin out! :thumbup:


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

very nice work. good info too. im looking to start a build to a very similar spec soon so thanks!

just to confirm, you went with a replacement 2.8 head and not an r32 one? 

thanks again. 

Jason.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

jaswan said:


> very nice work. good info too. im looking to start a build to a very similar spec soon so thanks!
> 
> just to confirm, you went with a replacement 2.8 head and not an r32 one?
> 
> ...


ty. and yeah, I had a "stage 2" turbo setup installed before the tear down, and had already purchased a fuel rail / SRI / injectors/ etc. So I just grabbed a used 2.8 head replacement.


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

cool, what exhaust manifold are you using?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

jaswan said:


> cool, what exhaust manifold are you using?


CTS


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

6765VR6 said:


> Contact Issam at INA for information. I got my unit for testing from him last week. It is a fluidampr, not ATI.


:thumbup:
Rich,
your power steering pulley has no ribs?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

INA said:


> :thumbup:
> Rich,
> your power steering pulley has no ribs?


nope..... but I see your point!


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## 02JttaGLI (Nov 23, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Yeah you're right I probably should.
> _Locking the flywheel temporarily to get the crankshaft damper bolt off:_


is that the dieselgeek flywheel holding tool?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yup. got it when I got the short shifter. good little tool.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

*aux after run coolant pump*

can I delete the aux after run coolant pump? I've just discovered it doesn't work anyway..... and I don't remember hearing it at all after I shut the car off.... so who knows how long it's been dead.

do to my minimalist nature I'm leaning towards bypassing it.... I always make sure the car is cooled down before I shut it off. Will removing this cause damage down the road? FYI I've also got a brand new coolant pump.

and what's the best way to connect a couple wires to this sensor?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Not running the pump would scare me. $90 is some pretty cheap insurance to keep the head from frying if you have to shut off suddenly.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--VR6_24v/Search/Water_Pump/ES4223/

What sensor is that? The reverse switch that comes from the transmission?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Jo|\| said:


> What sensor is that? The reverse switch that comes from the transmission?


it's an MKIII VR6 IAT sensor. I have to run a ProMaf setup until the lugtronic harness is ready


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Well here is the bare connector and the water proofing grommet.

connector - http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/357972752/ES5379/ 
grommet - http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/357972741/ES335641/

The only terminals I can seem to find are these. http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Terminal/ES1009022/ The cost of them kind of scraps that plan though.

Just get some blade connectors, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_connector#Blade_connector, shrink wrap and some wire.


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## 02JttaGLI (Nov 23, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> can I delete the aux after run coolant pump? I've just discovered it doesn't work anyway..... and I don't remember hearing it at all after I shut the car off.... so who knows how long it's been dead.
> 
> do to my minimalist nature I'm leaning towards bypassing it.... I always make sure the car is cooled down before I shut it off. Will removing this cause damage down the road? FYI I've also got a brand new coolant pump.


not really worth risking, imo. it's cheap insurance.


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

Delete that pos pump. The head can't get any hotter than it already is when you shut the engine off. Aluminum is pretty good at conducting heart so whatever on that pump.

As for that sensor...get rid of that too and do the 1.8t open element one.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thnx guys

What's the cleanest way to wrap up the coil pack wires? Wire loom isn't doing it for me.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> it's an MKIII VR6 IAT sensor. I have to run a ProMaf setup until the lugtronic harness is ready.


Nice build
Run a 1.8t air temp sensor. They have the same connector but install slightly differently. The advantage is they will not heatsoak nearly as much as that one, lower air temps equals more power!


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> thnx guys
> 
> What's the cleanest way to wrap up the coil pack wires? Wire loom isn't doing it for me.


Google "techflex", the 1/4" fits over the coilpack wires pretty well
Summit and jegs sell their own brand cheaper, get the split loom so you can slide it over.

here you can see it on my throttle cable and injector harness


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yareka said:


> Google "techflex", the 1/4" fits over the coilpack wires pretty well
> Summit and jegs sell their own brand cheaper, get the split loom so you can slide it over.


nice thanks, Im gonna try some. it hurts to see that plastic wire loom crap right in front of my face all the time. I can deal with a little here n there outta the way.... but not sitting on the valve cover right front and center like that.

see what I mean?










I tried googling and maybe my keywords were off but I found very little info regarding FPR's and their optimal distance from the rail. What if I wanted to mount the regulator on the passenger strut tower? Pros / Cons? The regulator + lines would be a lot cleaner via the tower, but if distance matters (function > form) I can mount it closer on the passenger side by the headlight, or I could make a bracket that attaches to the valve cover on the pass side.... does FPR distance matter?

oh - FYI - I gapped the plugs @ .022. (NGK BKR7E)

and the 6466 is just in


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## VR Sparta! (Oct 22, 2012)

Nice job on this build been following it.

To throw in my 2 cents here I don't think it should matter where you put your fpr as long as it is on. Your fuel pump will pump at the same rate, and thus deliver fuel in the same quantity. Pressure in the fuel line would be held from the injector and regulated by the fpr. I don't think you will have a pressure change if you change the size of the line. IMO you shouldn't have a problem if you put the fpr on the tower...

As a disclaimer this is hypothetical on my end and I have no true experience with doing this.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

I've run the fpr on the rail, the strut tower and now its bracketed to the belt tennsioner. Makes no diffference in the distance, just more line is pressurized putting it further away but the pressure stays consistent. 

Nice choice on the 6466, should be 24v perfection


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

nice turbo  

what power are you looking to make. or what boost levels are you going to run?

thanks

Jason.


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## JohnnyDrama (Feb 15, 2012)

great work thus far! looking forward to following the rest!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks. I'm hopin for some good results with the 6466, as I personally haven't seen one on a VR before.

looking to make ~550 for now until I can find an AWD shell to swap it. then... who knows. (track only mind you)

techflex :thumbup::laugh:










has anyone use an OEM connector like this with a nylon braided line? I replaced the o-ring with a new one and I used a fuel line clamp.... it's tight as hell, I can't pull it off. And the line was really snug with the OE fitting.... I had to use some lube to get it all the way on.

- I'm going straight from the stock pump (underneath the rear seat) directly to the surge in the trunk, and an -AN quick connect fitting won't fit by the OEM pump (won't plug in to the quick connect as the stop is not vertically high enough for the fitting - sry hard to explain). You think it'll leak or it'll be alright?


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## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> thanks. I'm hopin for some good results with the 6466, as I personally haven't seen one on a VR before.
> 
> looking to make ~550 for now until I can find an AWD shell to swap it. then... who knows. 700? (track only mind you)
> 
> ...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

jettred3 said:


> leak city


alternatives?

what about this:

OEM 90 deg quick connect > 5/16 fuel line with clamps > 5/16 barb to -6AN female swivel > -6AN male coupler










trying to route it like so (surge tank in the spare tire well):


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Good job on the techflex :thumbup:

Sucks that the quick connect:AN fitting wont work on the pump as thats the absolute best way. The 5/16" oem line with multiple fittings will work but jettred is right, -6an line clamped on the oem connectors is not a good idea as the line is a hair bigger and the reinforcement in the nylon line wont let the efi clamp fully seal on the fitting.

Also while we are on the subject of the nylon braided line, I want to make sure you are not using the summit brand nylon braided line. It is not rated for fuel, definitely not for fuel injection. I caught a small leak before it went bad, that line is junk. It probably isnt but just a heads up :thumbup:

Which fuel pump are you running?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yareka said:


> I want to make sure you are not using the summit brand nylon braided line. It is not rated for fuel, definitely not for fuel injection. I caught a small leak before it went bad, that line is junk. It probably isnt but just a heads up :thumbup:
> 
> Which fuel pump are you running?


yeah that techflex stuff is much nicer looking, although it takes a bit of time to slip on....but the result is worth it. thnx.

- pump? bosch 044

and your advice about the summit nylon line surprises me a bit..... I ran the same lines in two different cars and I've never had an issue. I even cheaped out the first time on my M3 and used summit brand -AN fittings.... still never a problem. I bought a crapload of hose & black fittings at the time as I worked for a company that had a huge discount with summit. I think I grabbed about 75ft of nylon line... and still have 40 ft left.

I'm curious to know what happened with (or what caused) your "summit braided nylon" situation? I already have a bunch of the summit line sitting here in a box and I fully intend to give them a go, but if they fail for any reason I'll know what's up and what to do.

--------

annddd I've got a new problem..... the driver's side rad fan is rubbing up against the SRI now. Has anyone fit two slimline fans in a factory 24v shroud? What total CFM should I aim for?


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

I had two 2' sections in my engine bay from my 044 pump to the rail, then back to the stock fuel fittings. After 6 months in use, I noticed the line getting very hard and brittle but didnt think anything about it. The hose didnt have any hard bends and was atleast a foot away from the manifold/dp so engine bay ambient heat may have been a factor but this would effect anyone doing line up to the rail. The line developed two pin hole leaks soon after I noticed it getting brittle on the feed(high pressure) side. I caught it before it got out of hand but I wouldnt run that line again, I can assure you the line wasnt punctured by any tools. When I looked back at their page, they didnt recommend the line for fuel usage, I was 

Now I just looked back at their listing for the same hose and they have definitely changed manufacturers because now it is rated for efi/e85 and all fuels and the price has gone up as well. Now you can get russels proclassic hose(what I am using now) for the same price as the summit brand. 

I would run what you have but keep a close eye on it sir.

Are you running the IE 044/surge combo? It looks like you have power and ground tapped into your stock fuel pump plugs. Just want to make sure you are relaying the 044.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thnx for the heads up. I'll keep a close eye on the lines.

I've installed the 044 in an 034 FP34, just waiting on some fittings to complete the lines. And I use a Genesis HD fuel pump harness. I know though - the stock wiring looks a little weird as I had to repair it a bit when I first got the car ( a few wires were cut). Everything is wired stock at the pump except for the signal wire (the yellow wire) which goes to the genesis relay harness. The battery is right there so I just plan to connect directly for the grounds & +12v.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

USRT harness is where its at. Saw the big wire leads there and just wanted to make sure :wave:

Did I see that you are going to be running lugtronic?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yeah my original intention was to run lugtronic.... but it'll be a while before it's ready. While I wait I'll be running UM 870cc ProMAF.


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

There are some low profile fans in this build, I don't know what part number they are though. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5042008-Build-Thread-not-necessary/page6

It looks like it may be this one, http://automotive.flex-a-lite.com/e...an-with-adjustable-thermostat-controller.html


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## VRpoweredA2 (Oct 8, 2000)

.therealvrt said:


> Nice build
> Run a 1.8t air temp sensor. They have the same connector but install slightly differently. The advantage is they will not heatsoak nearly as much as that one, lower air temps equals more power!


Do we know if this also works for a 12v ? 

-Sent from a Galaxy Note 2


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

870cc Pro-Maf with a 6466 T4... Exited about it, and how it will perform


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

VRpoweredA2 said:


> Do we know if this also works for a 12v ?


1.8T IAT into a 12v manifold

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5242321-DIY-1.8T-IAT-sensor-install-on-VR6-manifold.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks for the info everyone..... I've gotta do my research with performance rads now. Any preferred rad options in the all aluminum flavour for the 24v?

welded some AN fittings to the Kinetic inlet pipe (for DV recirc (-16AN) & catch can (-10AN)):



















and anyone have any suggestions on how to clean this up a bit? Nobody will see this probably, but I feel a bit off just leaving it like this.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

For fans, I was able to fit two 11" spal fans into my my modified corrado fan shroud on a mk3 mishimoto radiator, so Im sure you could do the same or bigger into a mk4 shroud. They pull 2800cfms and when they both kick on you can feel it pulling air 6" away from the grill.









And if you want to go all the way, pair it with a spal pwm controller so you can take full control of your fans. I was able to fit the spal temp sensor into a blank sensor plug so it fit into the thermostat housing just like stock. 









And your floor setup in the rear looks clean, nothing wrong with that at all.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yareka said:


> I was able to fit the spal temp sensor into a blank sensor plug so it fit into the thermostat housing just like stock.


how did you accomplish that? Drill through the blank and epoxy it? Or just secure the sensor to the other side with a nut? Also how did you like the mishimoto rad on the rado?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

finished the surge tank / fuel filter setup. I'm gonna try and run the other 2 lines to the rail tomorrow if I have time.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> how did you accomplish that? Drill through the blank and epoxy it? Or just secure the sensor to the other side with a nut? Also how did you like the mishimoto rad on the rado?


I carefully drilled and tapped the plug for the gm 3/8" sensor used for the spal. Followed up with rtv sealant that you can see the bead of and its held 2 years leak free. No issues with the mishimoto rad, I chose the mk3 since pwr is the only quality one for the rado, and the mk3 actually works out much cleaner in my setup not having the rad neck up top like the stock one. Mishi is a good buy, only issues with seen are when doing a direct replacement radiator, their dimensions are a little bigger. Not an issue since I was already fabbing up for intercooler so should be easy on your build too.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I've got tons of room now :thumbup:

and for anyone wondering - I read a lot of threads re: mishimoto rads for MKIV and discovered a lot of fitment issues were brought up (granted they were 1 yr old threads). However, my new Mishimoto MMRAD-GLF-99 fit the rad support spot on - it was a drop in. Just gotta trim a little bit on the driver's side - no biggie.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

while I'm waiting on a few parts / clamps / silicone etc I pretty much finished the false floor (just a few finishing touches needed but I'll worry about that later).


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Looks awesome sir, very industrial yet clean :thumbup:


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

What a sweet build to stumble on! I'm starting a 12v build and this was/ is great inspiration.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

update-
I finished most of the wiring from the battery / surge tank / fan controller + temp sensor. I figure some people might wanna see how I went about it all. I just have the ProMaf left to wire up now.



















The power wire from the trunk leads to a power terminal stud that I installed on the frame rail. The fuse location grants easy access from above should I need to change it out. Oh and 1 connection on the fan controller isn't connected - ignition source. I'm gonna run that to the fuse box a bit later. You can also see where I "hid" the HID ballasts.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


>



...what flex hose and couplings did you use...and how did you like working with it? i have been wanting to do something like that for ever...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Boost112 said:


> ...what flex hose and couplings did you use...and how did you like working with it? i have been wanting to do something like that for ever...


siliconeintakes.com

it's real easy to work with. That bottom bend on the thermostat housing is as much radius as it'll go, though. For my purposes it's great, I can shape it how I want, and it cuts easy enough with a cutting wheel. I grabbed the silicone couplers from the same place, too. Just read the notes on the stainless tube's page - and follow the OD / ID that they mention... I believe it's something like 1.625" OD?

On most of the coolant lines I used the original quick connect coupling and clamped the silicone adapter onto there.

:thumbup:


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## VR Sparta! (Oct 22, 2012)

Are you getting jittery yet? Coming together real nice, :thumbup: you do great work.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> siliconeintakes.com
> 
> 
> On most of the coolant lines I used the original quick connect coupling and clamped the silicone adapter onto there.
> ...


...could i see that as well?....thanks for the feed back and the help...i have been watching the progress...looks...good best of luck!!!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

VR Sparta! said:


> Are you getting jittery yet? Coming together real nice, :thumbup: you do great work.


dude! I was jittery in November. 2 months later I'd classify it as..... PMS? yes - I know. :screwy:
I get pissed off quite easily nowadays. I miss my VR. a lot.


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## VR Sparta! (Oct 22, 2012)

I'll rent my non-modded 24v vr6 out to you for $300 a week if you'd like to supress your pre-menstrual issues


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

VR Sparta! said:


> I'll rent my non-modded 24v vr6 out to you for $300 a week if you'd like to supress your pre-menstrual issues


haha u know what I may have taken u up on that a month ago!



Boost112 said:


> ...could i see that as well?


lower radiator hose (for example):


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> - I'm going straight from the stock pump (underneath the rear seat) directly to the surge in the trunk, and an -AN quick connect fitting won't fit by the OEM pump (won't plug in to the quick connect as the stop is not vertically high enough for the fitting - sry hard to explain). You think it'll leak or it'll be alright?


Did you get this sorted already? If not, look into getting a bulkhead fitting to keep everything at -6, like this:










Never have to worry about leaks, ever.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I am Jack's VR6 said:


> Did you get this sorted already? If not, look into getting a bulkhead fitting to keep everything at -6, like this:
> 
> Never have to worry about leaks, ever.


thanks - I'll definitely try that if my clamped solution doesn't work out.


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## veearesixT (Dec 15, 2005)

Nice build!

Just an FYI on deleting the after run coolant pump. While you may get away with it for now think about its design intent. It was originally placed there in the 12v to keep the head gasket alive. When you shut an engine off that is when it gets its hottest. Yes..in fact they do...all engines do, the temp flash spikes due to lack of circulating coolant. The reason for the pump is due to the surface size of the cylinder head with the two metals (head and block) that expand and contract as well as dissipate heat at two different temperatures especially when air pockets form and you get hot spots. Over the greater distance there is the potential for more movement which when it happens (even ever so slightly) your head gasket becomes the bearing. Over time its integrity will be compromised. That pump is there for longevity of your head gasket by controlling that temp spike by continuing the circulation of coolant. Also due to the heads size why do you think they warp so easily when overheated?

So just a heads up for those who think it really is not of any concern to remove that pump... I would think twice about it.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks - I appreciate the heads up.

All I know is:
- the pump has been inactive for 2 years
- @ ~450whp
- driven for around 35,000 miles
- pushed *really* hard at the track on very hot + humid days (repeatedly, many many times)

Never had a gasket lift or any other adverse cooling-related problems. I also monitor my coolant temps with an aftermarket gauge (as the gauge on the dash is practically useless).

So we'll see how it goes... I'll definitely report back for others if problems arise later on. Then you can say, I told you so!

side note:
The passenger side quick connect coupler to the heat exchanger (on the firewall) is 90 degree coupling. To go straight from the heat exchanger to the head with a hose you can grab the straight quick connect coupler separately (you do not need to buy the entire hose, as the dealer made me believe). The part # is 3B0122291B.


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## MrSavvy (Mar 21, 2011)

I don't have a VR, nor have I worked on one. But I just found this thread and read the entire thing. Solid work, man! In for updates. :beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

MrSavvy said:


> Solid work, man! In for updates. :beer:


ty sir.

didn't get much done today.... had lots of work to do. I primed / painted the i/c pipes... and installed the final pulley setup:

crank - fluidampr (from INA)
water pump, tensioner, & alternator pullies - gruven


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## Filthydubber (May 7, 2007)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> opinions on lightweight crank pulleys for a VR6?
> 
> I see a lot of "heresay" online but no one actually piping up and saying something like.... "yep - a lightweight pulley fried my main bearings and killed my crank". There are also lots of posts warning against an undampened pulley, especially in a "daily driven forced induction" type situation.
> 
> Anyone have some real world experience?


I did an up-dampened pulley on my ABA-T and the vibrations on the pulley were so bad that the stretch bolts that hold the pulley on, backed off. 

I put a stock pulley on and didn't notice any power loss, so I'm figuring the minimal power gain (if any) isn't worth potential crank damage.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Filthydubber said:


> I did an up-dampened pulley on my ABA-T and the vibrations on the pulley were so bad that the stretch bolts that hold the pulley on, backed off.


yeah I'm happy fluidampr came out with their VR6 pulley when they did. I'm glad I have one.... but damn - they're pricey. I hope the $ spent will be worth it.

on another topic-

anyone know roughly what tq level I should stay at to keep my 02M in one piece? After some research I've seen a couple #'s been thrown around.... 600nm (~442ft-lbs) & 500ft-lbs. Based on that I assume it would be ~safe to run around 450 tq? I need this trans to last a little while till I can move on to "phase 3" aka S4 swap.....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I got to the brakes today...


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

I've got the Boxster brakes on my car. No turbo, but the brakes are amazing :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^good to hear! I'm hoping they'll contribute to some lower lap times! But - I'm fearing the apparent dust wrath incoming from the Hawk HP+ pads..... apparently they stop really well, but dust a lot. So I've heard.

should I stick with G12? or is there another, maybe more "aggressive" type of coolant that I can use? or G12+water wetter or similar?

just thinking ahead in terms of cooling capacity and overall cooling efficiency of the system now... since I've deleted a few things and changed the lines.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> should I stick with G12? or is there another, maybe more "aggressive" type of coolant that I can use? or G12+water wetter or similar?
> 
> just thinking ahead in terms of cooling capacity and overall cooling efficiency of the system now... since I've deleted a few things and changed the lines.


...if you live in a climate that gets into the freezing temps then i would stick with coolant just so it wont freeze...and crack the block or something...BUT if you in the south like i am...then the best combo is straight distilled water with some water wetter...


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## JohnnyDrama (Feb 15, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> should I stick with G12? or is there another, maybe more "aggressive" type of coolant that I can use? or G12+water wetter or similar?
> 
> just thinking ahead in terms of cooling capacity and overall cooling efficiency of the system now... since I've deleted a few things and changed the lines.


I never had any issues with G12 + water wetter on the old 12v turbo back when shaving coolant overflows was something new...and the filler neck wasn't even the highest point in the system...I don't think you'll have any issues....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

little update:

I love this stuff... makes stud removal much easier if required. Sourced from 034.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

a major pet peeve of mine is when fuse panels have wires everywhere all messy and inaccessible. (it's weird I know...) I've cussed and battled with a lot of mangled fuse panels at work.... it just irks me. So I thought I'd show some of ya what can be done with gauge installs etc, in case you weren't familiar with it.

Grab a couple fuse taps (I put spade connectors at the end instead of a butt connector in case I need to add / remove wires more easily):










then consolidate your power and ground wires, find a switched +12v fuse, connect the wires to the fuse tap, and voila. You'll have a clean, functional, and most importantly accessible fuse panel.

PS - there's a good ground spot on the bottom of the fuse area where the bolt / nut is. That's where I grounded everything.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I primed my pump(s) and got some fuel in the lines.... and now the inside + outside of the car smell. a lot. like gas. _a lot_. it's unbearable sitting inside with the doors & windows closed. No leaks whatsoever tho so that was good at least..... 

Apparently the combination of increased fuel additives and the variance of quality from pump to pump in modern fuel seems to cause rubber AN hose a lot of problems, including smelly gas vapor issues and lines having to be replaced every 12 to 18 months due to the inner lining breaking down. 

It seems like I'll have to go with hard lines or teflon coated (PTFE) AN hose and fittings to get around this gas vapor smell issue. Now I have to take out the new lines I just made......


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Fuel lines round 2! Went with aeroquip ptfe race hose and fittings this time.


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

:O so nice! I need to get some of dat junk! What are those two little guys on the left side of the image that are connected to the pump?


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Looking good. 

How did you connect to the tank pump with the new aeroquip lines? Maybe some pics of it?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

CerealKiler said:


> :O so nice! I need to get some of dat junk! What are those two little guys on the left side of the image that are connected to the pump?


 Fuel filters. From the tank to the 044 = 100 micron, from the 044 to the rail = 10 micron. 



gdt said:


> How did you connect to the tank pump with the new aeroquip lines? Maybe some pics of it?





















but eventually I wanna introduce bulkhead fittings like _I am Jack's VR6_ recommended:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

quick update re: oil feed / drain pics, for those who asked.

turbo's oil feed (oil filter housing m10x1 to -4AN adapter fitting, to a -4AN 1/8 NPT gauge adapter, to the aeroquip -4AN PTFE hose):










turbo oil drain


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

No car fires here!  :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I just don't want the hose to melt or get damaged by heat.... I did the same with the fuel lines

edit: in retrospect a hard line would have been ideal for this......


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ceramic coating done


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

What are you using for a fuel rail? 

Coatings look awesome!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks... I'm still a little "iffy" about the silver tho..... I wasn't expecting it to be that "bright". The colour swatch at the coating place looked more than a few shades darker than that.... more like a titanium than a silver (and that's what I was going for). Whatever.... it's on there now. It won't be ~that visible anyway with the intercooler pipe running over top of it.

fuel rail is from 034 Motorsport


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## veearesixT (Dec 15, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> thanks... I'm still a little "iffy" about the silver tho..... I wasn't expecting it to be that "bright". The colour swatch at the coating place looked more than a few shades darker than that.... more like a titanium than a silver (and that's what I was going for). Whatever.... it's on there now. It won't be ~that visible anyway with the intercooler pipe running over top of it.
> 
> fuel rail is from 034 Motorsport


It will change with heat...all the silvers do.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

veearesixT said:


> It will change with heat...all the silvers do.


I hope so.... maybe it'll get a bit darker.

as far as the initial startup / break-in stuff goes.... this is what I plan to do:


Start & immediately rev to 2.5k, hold until warmed up, shut down, change oil and filter.
Start, drive around while constantly varying load and performing a lot of engine braking, try not to idle, drive for about ~100 miles, change oil & filter.
Start, drive like I stole it, build up to short 5-6.5k RPM pulls, change oil & filter @ ~500 miles.
Introduce low boost pulls @ ~10psi, change oil & filter @ 1000 miles.
Switch to synthetic @ 1500 miles.

whacha think?


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

I did like my engine builder told me. He is building alot off diffrent engines, but also alot off Top fuel drag engines.
He told me to fill up with mineral 10/40 oil, drive 1000km/620miles with easy load. Just let the engine run light. Reason was that the mineral oil wears abit more than a full synthetic. And he kept talking about this for ever..... 
Then change to synthetic oil, and drive it like you stole it.
My 12V VR6 has been seeing 10-30 psi boost with the T3 1.06 GT35R, 82.5mm Wisecos, h-profil rods, new oem bearings. Everything balanced and weight adjusted from the above engine builder @ Oslo Cylinder service.
No engine issues, Pro-Maf 60# and stock head since 2009.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Norwegian-VR6 said:


> I did like my engine builder told me. He is building alot off diffrent engines, but also alot off Top fuel drag engines.
> He told me to fill up with mineral 10/40 oil, drive 1000km/620miles with easy load. Just let the engine run light. Reason was that the mineral oil wears abit more than a full synthetic. And he kept talking about this for ever.....
> Then change to synthetic oil, and drive it like you stole it.
> My 12V VR6 has been seeing 10-30 psi boost with the T3 1.06 GT35R, 82.5mm Wisecos, h-profil rods, new oem bearings. Everything balanced and weight adjusted from the above engine builder @ Oslo Cylinder service.
> No engine issues, Pro-Maf 60# and stock head since 2009.


how's your vacuum now? and have you ever done a compression test just to see the #'s?


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

Never tested. All my VR6s in the last 13years have been a little oil thirsty, exept my stock 24v engine. There is so many ways ive heard to break in a engine. What is the right thing to do? I dont know, i just wanted to share what I did.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks for sharing! there's a lot of different opinions on this.... overwhelmingly I'm hearing a lot of people around me say no boost, and take it easy for a couple hundred miles. Decisions decisions.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

@ lunch I was sitting down just staring at the car while I ate..... and it occurred to me to check out my oil cooler as I never cleaned it before I put it back on :screwy:

there were more than a few aluminum shavings inside the cooler and a few pieces in the drained oil as well..... probably from my old (dead) head. My oil pump is probably screwed too.

But if I started it with all those shavings..... that coulda sucked.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I picked up an ARP rod bolt stretch gauge from Integrated Engineering.

Everything's going great - but I'm a little unsure about how tight the bolts are using the stretch method vs torque method.

Torque method for my ARP rod bolts is set at 40 ft lbs. Using the stretch method seems to torque them a little more than 40 ft lbs but I get accurate repeatable measurements every time using stretch as a guide.










Example:










Tolerance is between 0.02mm and 0.07mm. Measurement is ~.051mm. 

Basically what I'm trying to ask is should I be alarmed that the stretch value seems to exceed the torque value given?

Stretch method varies approx. ~1 or 2 ft-lbs up and down from 40 ft-lbs. There are small variances in measured torque from rod to rod. Used ARP moly lube always.

oh I had to "modify" the stretch gauge to fit in the VR block....


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

My opinion: ARP calls for torquing them to a specific amount. They don't say to use the stretch method you are talking about... If you are still questioning it, contact ARP and see what they say.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

CerealKiler said:


> My opinion: ARP calls for torquing them to a specific amount. They don't say to use the stretch method you are talking about... If you are still questioning it, contact ARP and see what they say.


That may have been the case a few years back but not anymore. ARP prefers stretch method.










and the new oil cooler is installed:


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Wow, good to know! I triple checked the installation instructions with the paper arp sent with the hardware as well as their website and saw nothing regarding the stretch method. Btw, nice oil cooler!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

started it up briefly....

but-

- it's struggling for air..... vacuum is low (-6 inHG). Intake manifold isn't sealing right, gotta take it off and investigate. 

- I'm also leaking fuel from one or two injectors.... it's a small leak so I'm thinking an o-ring or two didn't seat properly. Gonna check that out while the manifold is off.


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## GTITDub (May 20, 2005)

Keep up the good work! :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

k I fixed the intake manifold leak with some o-rings:










But I still had a vacuum leak somewhere. After looking around aimlessly with soapy water for a whole night I broke down and called my buddy with a smoke tester. Found tons of smoke pouring out from injectors 1, 4, & 5.


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## VR6ix (Oct 27, 2003)

Must feel good to at least get to this stage in the build!!! Awesome work, keep us posted :beer: :beer:

Honest question: would it be better to run at least a short length of pipe between the MAF and the cone filter?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

hey - long time no see! how's it going?

and yep, I have a 3" pipe running from the turbo to the ProMaf.

this injector leak is getting to be a pain in the ass. I added 2 washers to one of the bolts, tightened down, and SNAP! Busted a thread or two. Now I gotta heli-coil this crap. And I've gotta find thicker o-rings as tightening down the rail evidently isn't gonna work.

:banghead:


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## VR6ix (Oct 27, 2003)

Heya Rich! :thumbup:

I meant the other side of the MAF... looks like the filter is clamped directly onto the MAF housing. I've seen plenty of set-ups like that but always wondered if running ( filter -> short pipe -> MAF -> pipe to turbo inlet ) would give the MAF a cleaner or less-turbulent reading of the air flow? And would that affect how the ECU decides to make power or change the drive-ability of the car in any way...

By "honest question" I really meant "I'm gonna sound like a n00b but always wondered..." :laugh:


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

That filter and maf are a combo.

There are some pics on the manufactures website of it with the filter off. Its sensor doesn't sit in the middle of the airstream like the stock one does.
http://www.promracing.com/home-page-bestsellers/pro-m-80.html


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yeah ProMaf is a little different compared to OE VW. Lasts a hell of a lot longer, too. 

Not sure what effect that MAF placement would have. Theoretically as long as the sensor is sampling the air before the PCV / catch can / dv etc I'd *think* it would pretty much work the same. But dunno for sure. Interesting thought, tho.... that never occurred to me.

If it wasn't for emissions testing I'd ditch it all and run standalone. Damn government money grab program. Grr.


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## Tor_m (Feb 13, 2010)

What injectors are you using? Is this the 034 fuel rail? The bolt thats come with is is way to short, get new longer ones! 
And yes my fuel rail to has been on and of 100 times because of vacum leaks, Seems like the injectors must be 100% in right place in the head, if not its leaking.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

Hoping you make some serious power with this build! Just made 473.77whp myself on a stock motor and intake manifold without much effort  Daily driven too  Only thing done was a spacer and headstuds.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Tor_m said:


> What injectors are you using? Is this the 034 fuel rail? The bolt thats come with is is way to short, get new longer ones!
> And yes my fuel rail to has been on and of 100 times because of vacum leaks, Seems like the injectors must be 100% in right place in the head, if not its leaking.


They are Siemens 870cc & yep it's the 034 rail. yeah the bolts are kinda short aren't they..... what size did you get? I think I have some ~5mm longer M6x1.00 around here somewhere.... I'll try that. (thanks.)



DannyLo said:


> Hoping you make some serious power with this build! Just made 473.77whp myself on a stock motor and intake manifold without much effort  Daily driven too  Only thing done was a spacer and headstuds.


yeah thats pretty much exactly what I was running prior to the tear down. 3 weeks before the head went boom I turned up the boost to ~23psi (admittedly to try n catch a GTR at a track event - I was keeping up FFS too!) which felt like a bit more than ~500... maybe ~530 or so. I dyno'd it @ 18psi 454whp a few weeks prior to that. @23lbs is when I over-revved and trashed the head. Have fun.... but beware >23 psi!


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## Tor_m (Feb 13, 2010)

I cant remember how long I got for the fuel rail, but its just to measure, did exactly the same thing as you, but with new bolts my problem was fixed. 
How is the gaskets to the Siemens 870cc?? Like OEM? Im running ID1000cc, and I don`t like the way the solution on the gaskets ID have for 24V


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

This 034 fuel rail still isn't holding pressure. The leak is soooo small though - very little fluid gets out. Pressure drops to zero in about 3 minutes, so it's a small tiny leak.

I've checked all the other lines / connections, tested with a stock 3bar regulator + adjustable aeromotive fpr, tried shifting it up / down / left / right - and a stock rail works fine (with spacers). Also tried 5mm longer bolts (to grab more thread / tighten more) & thicker o-rings. Nada. 

:banghead:


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## ukyvakrow (Mar 4, 2012)

man great build!!! I only have GLI 1.8t and used to look at BT builds and such but i find this build the most interesting! amazing work and awesome car. 

Props on doing everything that you can yourself, one day i wanna do something similar with my mk4 gli... yet im no mechanic but even if i have to pay a shop i would actually go and work on my own car to know whats being done and learn. 

Great build! keep it up :thumbup:


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## uumzta (Mar 31, 2013)

This is incredible ...Completely inspired by this. I was feeling daunted about rebuilding my vr in the near future, but not so much anymore.
great write up!!:thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ukyvakrow said:


> Great build! keep it up :thumbup:





uumzta said:


> great write up!!:thumbup:


thanks guys.... hopefully lots of people can benefit from the thread.

Sorted out the fuelling issue - found a place that makes custom o-rings and got them to make me ones that are a bit thicker. Did the trick.

I still have a low vacuum issue (I'm seeing ~ -6 inHg @ idle) - but I have to wait for more smoke solution for the smoke tester to figure that one out.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> but I have to wait for more smoke solution for the smoke tester to figure that one out.


hint: baby oil is what we've always used in our matco smoke machine. Its the same stuff


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Is the car running smoothly while it's idling? (I'm guessing not if it's only at 6 inches of vac). I know that whenever I run into spark issues my car will start to misfire at idle and that will significantly reduce the vacuum I pull.

Nice build, I can't wait to see the results when it's all said and done!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yareka said:


> hint: baby oil is what we've always used in our matco smoke machine. Its the same stuff





leebro61 said:


> Is the car running smoothly while it's idling? (I'm guessing not if it's only at 6 inches of vac). I know that whenever I run into spark issues my car will start to misfire at idle and that will significantly reduce the vacuum I pull.
> 
> Nice build, I can't wait to see the results when it's all said and done!


thanks guys.... I asked my buddy if I could stick some baby oil in his smoke machine and he didn't wanna let me. Don't matter tho, cuz I took Leebro's advice to check spark and that led me to this...

Pulled the old spark plugs and re-gapped new plugs to .028. Installed them. Tried to a start, same symptoms (low vac, rough idle).

Pulled the valve cover and found a few bits of metallic pieces:



So next I took out the spark plugs and did a compression test. cyl 1 through 5 = 120 across the board, cyl 6 = 0. yeah.... ZERO. I've never seen that before.... what could it be? Even if a piston ring or two somehow got loose there would still be ~some compression would there not? What would cause ZERO compression?

Squirted a little oil into cyl 6, performed compression test again. ZERO.

Scanned the ECU again, NO codes whatsoever.

I'm gonna drain the oil and drop the pan to see what else I find. Any suggestions at this point are extremely appreciated.


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## Mr.loops (May 27, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> thanks guys.... I asked my buddy if I could stick some baby oil in his smoke machine and he didn't wanna let me. Don't matter tho, cuz I took Leebro's advice to check spark and that led me to this...
> 
> Pulled the old spark plugs and re-gapped new plugs to .028. Installed them. Tried to a start, same symptoms (low vac, rough idle).
> 
> ...


Any possibility that one of #6's valve keepers broke up.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

I had an issue when I went bigger valves where the valve lengths were not cut correctly (left too long) and the valves in a few cylinders were not fully closing, so no compression. The bentley manual has a spec on this for the 12v, although I'm sure the procedure is less straight forward for the 24v. Good luck dude :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

oil looks clean :banghead:

gonna do a leak down test tmrw


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Yeah, it's gotta be something with the valves! My bets on a keeper... Not sure what else in the engine is that small and that color that could have fallen loose.


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## GTITDub (May 20, 2005)

My brother had the same issue when he compression tested his S4. One of them had 0. Turns out one of the exhaust valves were bad, so im w/ CerealKiler on this.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Hate to see this happen as you've absolutely nailed every part of this build, not cutting any corners.

Looks like a keeper to me too which is not fun to fix


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## rains (May 30, 2008)

watching this build. Hope you figure out what that metal is/ why you have 0 PSI


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

so it's definitely leaking out of both the intake AND the exhaust on #6....  (as per results of the leak down test) I also tested the other cylinders - all others pretty much have no leakage whatsoever.

I'm trying to figure out a way around taking the head off to fix this..... but it looks like I have to grab some new stretch bolts and a head gasket to figure this out properly.

:banghead:


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

get a set of ARP bolts for the head, then you won't have to replace them.. plus it'll be much stronger


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Oh dude definitely get arp! Bummer it's the valves but hopefully the head wasn't damaged...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Slayer said:


> get a set of ARP bolts for the head, then you won't have to replace them.. plus it'll be much stronger


yep, all my engine fasteners, including the head studs, are ARP.

I was talking about the cam adjuster stretch bolts


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Ohhhhhh hahaha :facepalm: my bad! Yeah, I don't think arp makes those bolts.  hope everything is as good as it can be. You've done so much to it for this to happen!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

k now I'm really confused. hopefully someone can set me straight. 

Remember I found those little metallic bits in the head? - it was an oil control ring off the exhaust cam. But - look at the grooves on the cam.... wtf? I don't see how that could be caused after installation as that part of the cam sits INSIDE the whole hydraulic control assembly / body. There's nothing to grind there, and the head itself doesn't have any damage. In all honestly I didn't look closely at the grooves before installation but they all seemed fine at first glance - I don't know for sure 100% though - I basically just wiped them down with a clean rag and thinner + blew over the whole cam with compressed air to remove any dust / machining debris. I've installed cams probably 8x by now like that.... and this is the first time I've seen this. I'm confuzzled. 

 




























All the other oil rings are fine (on the intake cam too). 

Any hypotheses, before I take the head off?


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Can you do a visual comparison against a stock cam just to make sure that all of the lobes "look" to be in the right place/orientation? I know this sounds crazy, but I've seen pictures of some 12v cams that had lobes that were clearly in the wrong circumferential position around the cam. If something is way off, you'll want to pull the head anyway...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

the cam lobes "visually" look the ~same.... 

but that doesn't explain why I had more valve leaks installed than without? and I don't think I can re-use the exhaust cam as it is now, anyhow, right? 

leak down test without cams (all valves should be shut): 





 
test results: 

with cams = leak down test result of ZERO psi, lots of air leakage through intake AND exhaust. all other cylinders read 120 compression and ~98% leak down. (compression is a tad low as the motor hasn't been broken in yet) 

without cams = leak down test result of 10 psi, NO air leakage past the intake valves, and ~the same amount of air coming out of the exhaust (as tested previously) 

conclusions (?) 

- some sort of issue with the exhaust valves on #6. Gotta yank the head off and take a peek. 
- #6 intake valves seal 100% (only WITHOUT intake cam installed - which raises questions about intake cam) 
- exhaust cam is done for (?) (need a replacement?). Oil control ring groove / end of cam is all messed up.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

It sounds like it's time to pull the head and hope for something obvious (and easily fixable). I don't know what to tell you about the camshaft, maybe call TT and see what they think. If you are leaking at the #6 intake valve when the valve is supposed to be "closed" you could measure the base circle on the cam and compare it to stock. In my case, I didn't realize that I had an issue with my valve lengths on my big valve head until I put my Schricks, which had a slightly larger base circle. This pushed the adjustment I needed to close the valve just out of the capability of the hydraulic lifter and I lost compression. 

Some what off topic... you've done a great job on this build and your detective/debug work is very thorough. Props to you for that. I know how easy it is to get discouraged and get stuck in a "why me" attitude when things that should work perfectly start going sideways. Keep your head up and you'll be there in no time. :wave:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

leebro61 said:


> Some what off topic... you've done a great job on this build and your detective/debug work is very thorough. Props to you for that. I know how easy it is to get discouraged and get stuck in a "why me" attitude when things that should work perfectly start going sideways. Keep your head up and you'll be there in no time. :wave:


 Thanks for that.... when everyone around me is so negative (except my gf) it's hard to keep my mind on the task. 

I took a break this weekend.... truthfully I didn't even want to look at it anymore. I knew the head would have to come off and I rly didn't wanna do it - especially after I thought I was all done & finished. 

we'll see what I find when I pull the head tomorrow I guess.....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

got the head off.... and I can't see anything visibly wrong or off. I handed it over to the machine shop so they can take a closer look. Their pressure tester also confirmed my only problem is the exhaust valves on #6.... so somehow the cams kept the intake open @ TDC on #6 only. 

My machinist concurred.... @ his shop he re-installed the cams, and it leaked (predictably) out of the intake valves. Took the cams out, intake valves were then shut 100%. Exhaust valves leaked both times so something else is going on there. 

So somehow my cams are sh*t. He couldn't explain the exhaust cam oil ring groove either, cuz there's no damage on the head or the vvt? / hydraulic? assy to explain it. Still a mystery. 










back to square one :facepalm:


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Dang man... That's Unvelievable! Hope you get it solved... Spending so much time to do something right and then it does this... Don't give up! You know you'll enjoy the hell out of it when it's all done! :thumbup:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If you swap lifters does the problem move?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> If you swap lifters does the problem move?


 didn't try that, but I called the machine shop and asked them just now. He tried shuffling the lifters around - same results. 

so.... no. thanks tho. 

machinist thinks it's the valve seats or the valves themselves or a combination of.....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Worth a shot!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Update: 

- new cams on the way - Schrick 272/272 

Big thumbs up to Ron @ Denon Performance. Ron took the time to understand what kind of car / setup / application I needed the parts for, to ensure I'd be getting exactly the right part to suit my expectations / needs (which was a great change of pace). Denon carries brands like Schrick, Mattig, Rieger, and other top of the line German imports. If you need something for your ride go ahead and give Ron a call, you won't be disappointed! 

*Ron @ Denon Performance 
tel:1-604-464-4401 
*


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

just got news from the machine shop.... exhaust valves were bent VERY slightly, that's why they weren't sealing right. Everything else is OK.

anyone have opinions / comments on lifter shims? I've never used them before and that's the only question mark I have in my mind relating to the bent valves etc. They came in the box with the springs etc, so I figured they were supposed to be installed. Lifter shims = good / bad? (I plan on revving high.... a lot.)


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Are they the Ferrea ones?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yeah...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Should be fine. With used lifters you probably want to bleed them all down before running it by leaving each lobe at full lift for ~1min.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Should be fine. With used lifters you probably want to bleed them all down before running it by leaving each lobe at full lift for ~1min.


 thanks, I'm assuming you'd do that with new ones as well? (all the lifters are new)

All I basically did was follow the advice of my grandfather (retired machinist by trade, not a professional engine builder, but he's built many, many race engines):

- buy new lifters
- drop em in a clean container with new, clean oil
- leave them overnight at least
- prime fuel / oil etc / start the car / rev to 2k RPM till fully warm / cut the motor / drain and filter oil, look for anomalies (big metal flakes / shavings etc - and there was nothing of the sort)

but I didn't leave each each lobe at full lift for ~1 min - I'll try that this time around.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

I don't do any of that. I just install them and make sure I do a dry crank (no fuel) until I have oil pressure then start it up. Run for 20min then check fluids, etc then go rip/tune, etc.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> I don't do any of that. I just install them and make sure I do a dry crank (no fuel) until I have oil pressure then start it up. Run for 20min then check fluids, etc then go rip/tune, etc.


 sounds good to me, thanks.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

baffled steel VR6 oil pan, courtesy of Issam @ INA Engineering. I have to admit.... this is badass.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

Wow that pan is awesome! Did not even know they were making baffled pans for the 24v. Really cool stuff :beer::beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Truthfully I didn't know about it either..... until Issam clued me in. It was kind of an impulse buy, but I've got zero regrets. It's a great piece and you can tell there was definitely a lot of careful thought behind the design.

MKV oil pump - you can see how low profile it is. I should have grabbed a pic of the 24v pump before I took it off... but I was running around back n forth at work. It sits considerably higher than the MKIV pump that's for sure.


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

That pan is meant for the 12v VR6, but the 12v/24v pans have the same bolt pattern. All you have to do is make a cover for the clutch/bellhousing.

Post about the pan with replies from Issam, http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5649453-INA-baffled-oil-pan-(with-extra-ground-clearance)










*Source: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5427128-mk3-vr6-oil-pan-swap-into-mk4-vr6-DIY-with-picsl*


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^yeah once I bolted up the pan (temporarily) it immediately became apparent that I'd have to make some sort of shield there. nice find, thanks.

today I just had to muck up my nice new pan to weld a 1/8 NPT bung to it. I could have used a drain plug adapter (how I had it previously) but the pan came with a magnetic drain plug and I wanted to keep it.



















still waiting on the valves and then I've gotta wait some more for the machine shop after that


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Update:

Engine should be going back in the car tomorrow. *fingers crossed*


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Anyone know what vac should be (roughly) with 272's?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

What are you seeing for vacuum now? 

268 Catcams are seeing 15ish here.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm seeing 12-13 inHg @ idle, with a few massive exhaust leaks (Kinetic down pipe rubs on the steering rack heat shield, and I think a v-band flange is a little warped just after the cat - in the process of fixing now)


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Definitely get the exhaust leaks worked out. The rich afr from running with exhaust leaks will cause the low vacuum.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

So who is the source for sheet metal short intake manifolds for our engines now?

There are like no options from what i'm seeing anymore, and I'm really looking to upgrade before waterfest...not looking good though. It'll really simplify my engine bay and make working on certain things much easier.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

nice build, but that fuel fitting setup kinda scares me. I would be afraid of leaks especially since it is inside the car.

Check out these clips that go onto the factory fittings. They are one time use since they are really for a GM car, but I know someone is working on some re-usable ones right now.









http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/103100/10002/-1?parentProductId=1287062


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yeah that's exactly what I tried to use originally, however the "stop" where the clip is supposed to sit underneath is too low (I'm talking about the nipple / nozzle coming up from the tank cap itself - where the OE plastic fittings clip onto). The blue plastic clip for the fitting doesn't engage.... so the fitting didn't work. That's why I had to find another solution.

Eventually I plan on changing to a bulkhead type setup as I'll probably need to replace the OE pump in a few months..... it has about 160k miles on it.

I tried both of these on the tank connection, both don't work  they are too "tall".


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

sitting on my hands waiting for parts is no fun.

:banghead:


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> yeah that's exactly what I tried to use originally, however the "stop" where the clip is supposed to sit underneath is too low (I'm talking about the nipple / nozzle coming up from the tank cap itself - where the OE plastic fittings clip onto). The blue plastic clip for the fitting doesn't engage.... so the fitting didn't work. That's why I had to find another solution.
> 
> Eventually I plan on changing to a bulkhead type setup as I'll probably need to replace the OE pump in a few months..... it has about 160k miles on it.
> 
> I tried both of these on the tank connection, both don't work  they are too "tall".


Who makes that fitting on the right? Integrated Engineering just released a similar fitting that looks to be a bit shorter.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> Who makes that fitting on the right? Integrated Engineering just released a similar fitting that looks to be a bit shorter.


Russel makes both

interesting though.... I'll give int eng a call and see if they can give me some measurements on theirs. thanks.


----------



## JDM-JTI (Sep 23, 2004)

subscribed .. awesome build going on here .. hope to see it finished with no more issues :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yeah, me too!! ^^

Update:

The long awaited JDL turbo manifold is finally en route! I should see it this week.... and as soon as I get it I'm gonna pull a marathon tig welding session until this ish is done! (gotta fab a 3.5" dp and new inlet pipe to work with the manifold)

.... and hopefully my boss will ease up a bit - he's made the last few weeks hell for me. I've taken a lift to myself now for a ~year - so he's beyond pissed (but I understand why). Gotta get things moving along.....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DannyLo said:


> So who is the source for sheet metal short intake manifolds for our engines now?
> 
> There are like no options from what i'm seeing anymore, and I'm really looking to upgrade before waterfest...not looking good though. It'll really simplify my engine bay and make working on certain things much easier.


Sorry completely missed that post. A short runner definitely makes it a ton easier to work on, I love the accessibility of my motor as it is now. All I can say is I run the UM sri, and it's a very high quality piece. Call up Jeff, see what he charges now for one. I grabbed mine a number of years ago so I'm not sure about current pricing.

"While I'm waiting for my manifold" update:

Cassidy from Integrated Engineering was great responding to emails :thumbup: Unfortunately after a few mails back n forth we determined their fittings won't work on the pump, so no dice. Gotta run it how it is, for now. Thanks anyway Darkside!

I saw a post a little while back that Yareka made about a -6AN check valve for the brake booster... it looked nice and small / minimal... and I couldn't help myself.


----------



## chewwyy (Dec 6, 2011)

*FV-QR*

wow, this is an impressive build. Can't wait to see it in person!


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Looking really good. Can't wait to see it with the new turbo manifold... I think it will be worth the wait :thumbup:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

not a bad way to spend a lot of money on vacuum lines.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Mr. Chewbacca said:


> wow, this is an impressive build. Can't wait to see it in person!


trying to make it to Vagkraft.... we'll see if I can get it done in time. 



leebro61 said:


> Looking really good. Can't wait to see it with the new turbo manifold... I think it will be worth the wait :thumbup:


oh I know it will be.....

I'm trying to figure out in my head how I'm going to use the ProMaf / fab the turbo inlet though.... it looks like I'll have to route it on the passenger side but there's almost no room there on an MKIV. Plus, I will have to somehow make 2.5" intercooler pipes fit down by the passenger side axle / frame rail. It should be "interesting".



DarkSideGTI said:


> not a bad way to spend a lot of money on vacuum lines.


actually it wasn't too bad, I already had a lot of hose and a few spare -6 hose ends that happened to work out (you can see on the vacuum manifold that those are re-used fittings, they are scratched up a bit). I just needed to order one more hose end, a banjo -AN adapter, and a few NPT to -AN fittings.... so it was like $40 altogether :thumbup:

today in between jobs I decided to finally install the eurogear boser + aerocatch hood pins.... (this thing has been collecting dust for a few years believe it or not). One down, one to go.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

did you already cut a big hole on the underside of the hood?

http://passwordjdm.com/PasswordJDM-AeroCatch-Plus-Flush-Mounting-Plates-Universal-P2758C421.aspx


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> did you already cut a big hole on the underside of the hood?
> 
> http://passwordjdm.com/PasswordJDM-AeroCatch-Plus-Flush-Mounting-Plates-Universal-P2758C421.aspx


shiet.... yes I did. Didn't even know something like that existed. CRAP.

I just planned on fiberglassing the bottom hole when I was done and then painting it to match. But that kit would have been much easier / cleaner. Plus the short bolts supplied are so stupid it's insane... why would they make them that short.

:facepalm:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Do werk JDL!



















Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Oh hellz yeah, isnt it a nice feeling to be so close?

In the middle of installing my JDL goodies as well :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yeah I'm itching to drive it again 

but - squeezing in a 3.5 dp by the 02m is going to be tough. I already tried a 90 off the turbo, but there isn't enough clearance between the manifold and transmission to run a pipe straight down and across....

I think a u bend might work, if I can get a perfect radius for it to bend right around and under the manifold, as the bend may be just enough to sneak by the transmission, but I'll still be worried about the sensor back there as it will be hella hella close. I took a few measurements before I left the shop and I'll see what I can grab tomorrow. Otherwise I'll have to settle with 3", but I really didn't want to do that . (or I can hack up a bunch of small pipe pies to make a custom bend but I really didn't want to do that, either!)

The manifold does look great, the welds and porting looks like a lot of man hours were put into it. Attention to detail is definitely there, I have no complaints with the quality. JDL :thumbup:

Also I need some suggestions on how to creatively run the coolant line from the head > heater core. The downpipe will most definitely be in the way. I'll get a pic of what I'm talking about tomorrow, if the u bend fits. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

That manifold is beautiful :thumbup:


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

I think you might be fine with a 3" out of the turbo, then a bend to get down near the tunnel, then flare to 3.5" once you are past the manifold to mate up with your new exhaust. 

For my heatercore line (12v, obviously) I've ran both an aluminum welded solid line with silicone couplers on both ends and more recently after swapping to an aluminum heatercore I've switched to a flexible, pushlock hose. The perspective on the photo makes it look much closer than it really is. 










{excuse the mess, I'm in the middle of several projects right now}


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

hey lee, I was hoping you'd reply :beer:

what did you use for the aluminum hard line? I have some 5/8 aluminum hard line / tubing that I can use..... and a bigass bender.... did you just run a bead of filler along the ends of the tube to clamp it up to the silicone, or?

As for the dp - I got a custom bend, in exchange for a ride (no problem! - thanks Arnold!) from another enthusiast (Audi S4) at a truck exhaust shop down the street. After cutting it down to size and test fitting it, I think it'll work. It slides nicely just under the manifold.

I wanna try and stick with 3.5.... if it gives me problems I'll go down to 3". I guess I'll just have a go and see what happens.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Hey Rich... I bought some aluminum bends and actually cut/welded them together. I "think" that on the 12v heads that outlet pipe is 3/4" diameter, so I just stuck with that. 5/8" would definitely work though since the factory used to throttle that pipe way down anyway to keep heatercores from popping... so no worries restricting the flow in any way. Here is a pic from SoWo before I switched to an aluminum heatecore and the setup I posted above.










I didn't bother with a bead roll or anything under the silicone (although you certainly could tack a small bump there), but I did use nice rolled edge clamps to keep from tearing the couplers up. I had ample clamping surface area and the coolant system isn't under ridiculous pressures, so I didn't have any issues keeping things together.

A friend of mine had some weird adapter fittings on his heatercore (from INA maybe?) so he could thread in AN lines and run AN fittings/hose. Then you would just need a coupler on the cylinder head. I just welded a male bung to a piece of pipe and clamped that on.

A 3.5" downpipe is certainly nice if you can make it work, but I'm thinking you would need a ton of flow and a large turbine wheel to really see the advantage of going from a 3" to 3.5" downpipe


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## [email protected] (Apr 3, 2013)

Im glad you are happy with the quality :thumbup: Cant wait to see the outcome of your build. 

PS - I will send you a T shirt when we get our next batch done. We were out when I shipped your order :beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks guys.

free shwag! omg I feel like I've gone back in time to 1996 lol! I'll look out for it :thumbup:

thanks lee - Issam is sending over some aluminum AN adapters for the heater core connections, which will solve that problem.

but sadly... 3.5" won't work. I can squeeze it by barely.... but some things will definitely die via heat. So... here goes another few hundred bucks :facepalm:


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> So... here goes another few hundred bucks :facepalm:


Been there, done that. I'm building a turbo cabriolet for my wife using 90% left over parts from my Corrado build :facepalm:.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

leebro61 said:


> Been there, done that. I'm building a turbo cabriolet for my wife using 90% left over parts from my Corrado build :facepalm:.


really? wow. sounds like a cool wife to want a car like that!!!! my gf just keeps bugging me over and over to turbo her base Cooper  I say meh..... if she asked for a VR turbo cabrio... that's a different story!

got the down pipe tacked up (mostly)


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

could you not have just pie cut that 3.5" dp and then ceramic coated it and wrapped it?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

It's kinda hard to explain.... if you were here you'd see how close it is to everything - that's the main problem - and with that, comes radiant heat vs ambient heat. Not sure pies would work too much better than a u-bend, as it has to sweep up and around the manifold to avoid the driveshaft anyway, and that shape is necessary to have a bend right at the trans to clear _it_. It's probably the most ideal shape for that spot. If I wrapped it too it would definitely rub on the manifold and shifter cables for sure.

A pro fabricator / tig welder might be able to make it work, however I am neither. I'm alright, but I'm not pro by any means. I'd be worried about stuff rubbing / bouncing off each other with vibration / rough driving.

Since I have the pipe maybe I'll try it for shiet's n giggles. I mean I don't think anyone is gonna come into the shop and ask for a 3.5" exhaust any time soon... so it's probably not gonna be used anyway..... :laugh:

I can tack something up pretty quickly... I just need to weld a short 90, then maybe a ~60. The 3" does fit great though....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

k I tacked this up real fast:










no way, jose. Like I said, maybe someone more pro can figure it out..... but it would be a headache for sure. Gotta stick with 3".


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

when there's a will there's a way.....

thanks ronnie & jesse @ JDL for the tips :beer:

3.5" downpipe, made with all vibrant stainless


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> when there's a will there's a way.....
> 
> thanks ronnie & jesse @ JDL for the tips :beer:
> 
> 3.5" downpipe, made with all vibrant stainless



Nice 3.5 inch turbo back will sound nice on a vrt


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## [email protected] (Apr 3, 2013)

Awesome! Glad that worked our for you :thumbup:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Is the Vibrant stuff just a tighter radius?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Nah it's just what was available - I believe it's slightly thinner than the truck pipe I got bent - it's 16ga, where the truck pipe was probably closer to 14 if I would take a guess.

The main change I made was to cut the u bend a bit shorter by the bottom of the manifold, then I made a 90 into a ~70 and connected the two. The result just happened to work out (barely) so I kept going. Took a lot of trim, fit, trim, fit......

There's only mm's of clearance to everything, but it does clear. 

Stupid question alert: (don't have much experience with dual wg)

Can I join these two dump pipes? Then out of the merge I can weld in a flex pipe and route the dump out past the subframe.....










Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

you can merge them, but you might want to use a larger diameter pipe.


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## [email protected] (Apr 3, 2013)

Correct just got to 2" We did this on an Evo setup with some double slips 1.5" to 2"


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Awesome idea :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Apr 3, 2013)

Correct you're gonna want a slip or a flex inbetween each gate and then another once its merged into the downpipe. Quite a bit of fabrication but i'm a fan of nicely recirculated dumptubes 

Jesse


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

Looking awesome ! I can't wait to hear it. I'm wanting to run 3.5 from the turbo too so it will be motivational for me 

Jason.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I need some welding advice.... 

I'm trying to tig a ss flex coupling but I'm having problems. I've tried twice now, thinking the first flex I bought was faulty, but the second one leaks too (in the same area) - so maybe it's something I'm doing wrong. Can't figure it out, since the inside of the flex coupling is a ~smooth tube (vibrant turboflex coupling) and there's no burn through or anything like that when I take a look inside. 

pic (don't be harsh - I'm still a tig nub). It's not leaking from the weld side, but on the other side where that thin band of stainless holds the "weave" together, in two small spots.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

almost there... trying to finish in time for Vagkraft in t-minus 5 days. I won't be able to ceramic coat everything, but I can do that later. 

Buttoned up the turbo intercooler pipe (we'll see if it squeeks by the axle once it's lowered down), finished the new inlet pipe, made a straight through 3.5" pipe for the track, had to change some of the wiring around, made the last AN hoses for bov & catch can, welded fittings onto misc stuff, finished the rear valence repair for the turn down.... the little things always seems to take the most time, don't they?


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I ran my IC piping similar and had to notch it for the axle. Mine is 3" piping.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> I ran my IC piping similar and had to notch it for the axle. Mine is 3" piping.


ah nice. Nah I worried about nothing.... 2.5" fit easily. Nice to know I can go 3" if need be tho....

I need to do a bit of fine tuning, but for now the car runs great. It's searching a little bit for 14.7 @ idle, the AFR stays right on 12.6 at WOT. Throttle has a little bit of hesitation when you hit it hard.... gonna check the plugs and packs. Vacuum is 10 inches @ idle (not sure if that's normal or not for 272's - seems to run OK - idle is a little "loopy" too) & oil pressure is about 25psi @ idle. I need a new battery, but other than that it seems good. _(finally.)_

also for those of you who are on the fence about grabbing an LSD, just frikkin do it!!!! It's a whole new FWD world I'm living in now..... what a MASSIVE difference from before. Peloquin LSD = amazing.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I've been driving it for a few days now and vacuum @ idle is still at 10-11 inHg. Seems rather low.... does anyone run 272's? How's your vac? I can't seem to find any vac / boost / exhaust leaks anywhere...

Also, opened up the spark plug gap from .022 to .024 - idle and WOT hesitation is much better, no change in vacuum though. I'm gonna try .028 for shiets n giggles in a little while to see if that runs better or worse.

The low end power is definitely lacking with the 272's (compared to stock), but once you hit 5k and up.... jeez does it fly. If I keep the RPM's high the thing moves like a bat outta hell. I'm not sure I even need boost by gear as the power down low is very manageable..... once I get up there in the RPM's tho I've gotta hold on with both hands. It'll be interesting to compare the new tq curve vs the stock motor / turbo config I was running previously.

3.5" exhaust sounds MEAN as F*CK when I open up the throttle... even with a cat and bigass bottle resonator the growl is incredible.

I'm probably biased, but yes, it sounds even better than the ferrari 599 I just worked on. The GTB sounds tame compared to the VR. :screwy: (I know I'm gonna get flamed for that!!! but it's truth!)

oh - I forgot to mention - this is how I fixed the leaking vibrant turboflex coupling. The only thing I could think of was that the braid wasn't sealed, and as a result it could leak from there, and that would explain why the smoke was pouring out of the opposite direction as the welds. On my previous attempts I just figured that welding the inner part would be sufficient. I tried turning up the amps to get more penetration, but when I did it would totally eat / melt the braid, so I had to back off and find another solution.

So basically I just took the torch with no filler, set the amps low, and melted / fused the braid together with the stainless band to create a seal. Worked out great.

Here you can see a little bit of it "fused", and a little bit left original - so you can see what I'm talking about. I'm probably just a shietty noob tig welder, but that's what worked for me. Some people were asking me in RL, so there it is.










I'm working on getting a photo shoot done and I'm trying to get some track time in this weekend for a good video or two to conclude the thread. I hate it when people make build threads with no "ending".... so I won't leave anyone hanging.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Glad to see it running. :thumbup:

My car only has about 12 in/hg at idle too, but I'm on stock cams. 12.6 is a tad lean for my tastes, I'd rather see it around 11.8-12.0


----------



## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> I'm probably biased, but yes, it sounds even better than the ferrari 599 I just worked on. The GTB sounds tame compared to the VR. :screwy: (I know I'm gonna get flamed for that!!! but it's truth!)


VRs make a nasty nasty noise. I doubt you'll get flak from us for saying it sounds meaner then a 599. Normal V engines all sounds the same to me, it's all about unusual engines. VRs, Ws, boxers and rotaries make all the fun noises.



24vGTiVR6 said:


> also for those of you who are on the fence about grabbing an LSD, just frikkin do it!!!! It's a whole new FWD world I'm living in now..... what a MASSIVE difference from before. Peloquin LSD = amazing.]


You can feel the power shifting around even on the stock engine. It's completely insane to run any more power without an lsd. It's a lot nicer in the rain and snow too, 99% of the torque steer goes away.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

*uh oh...*

:facepalm:

car started running real rough this morning. idle was crappy, but driving over 4k RPM felt fine. scanned it, came back with this:

_Thursday,22,August,2013,09:22:25:63217
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.6
Data version: 20121223

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: - Mileage: 218090km/135514miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BDB.lbl
Part No SW: 022 906 032 FK HW: 022 906 032 BL
Component: United.24v.213 G xgC 
Coding: 0000032
Shop #: WSC 78649 539 370310
VCID: 59B9470993EF83D0075

5 Faults Found:
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
P0300 - 002 - - Intermittent
16689 - Cylinder 5 
P0305 - 002 - Misfire Detected - Intermittent
16398 - Bank 1: Camshaft B (Exhaust) 
P0014 - 008 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163) 
P1392 - 001 - Open Short to Plus - MIL ON
16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake) 
P0011 - 008 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced) - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102 
Coding: 0019970
Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
VCID: 3467D6BD54CD9EB8F43

2 Faults Found:
00668 - Supply Voltage Terminal 30 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00526 - Brake Light Switch-F 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
Component: 08 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003 
Coding: 12344
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: 275D31F1C51BE520411

2 Faults Found:
00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
06-10 - Signal too High - Intermittent
00532 - Supply Voltage B+ 
07-10 - Signal too Low - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 927 
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V02 
Coding: 00334
Shop #: WSC 93361 
VCID: E8DFF2CD8885AA5808B
9BWDH61J144013218 VWZ7Z0C7096254

2 Faults Found:
01177 - Engine Control Unit 
64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent
01304 - Radio 
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway KCAN 0001 
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: F0EF9AADB055629850B

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 8B Komfortger·t HLO 0003 
Coding: 00064
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: 377DE1B115BB75A0D11

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
Component: 8B Tırsteuer.FS KLO 0202 

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
Component: 8B Tırsteuer.BF KLO 0202 

8 Faults Found:
01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393) 
52-10 - Supply Voltage Too High - Intermittent
01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393) 
53-10 - Supply Voltage Too Low - Intermittent
00928 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Driver Side (F220) 
54-10 - Incorrectly Equipped - Intermittent
00929 - Locking Module for Central Locking; Front Passenger Side (F221) 
54-10 - Incorrectly Equipped - Intermittent
01330 - Central Control Module for Central Convenience (J393) 
37-00 - Faulty
01331 - Door Control Module; Driver Side (J386) 
52-10 - Supply Voltage Too High - Intermittent
01332 - Door Control Module; Passenger Side (J387) 
52-10 - Supply Voltage Too High - Intermittent
01359 - Internal Central Locking Switch; Passenger Side (E198) 
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------_

ignore the radio stuff.... didn't have the radio plugged in. 

I swapped spark plugs with new ones (stayed @ .024) and cleared DTC's. Idle was immediately better but after driving about 20 minutes I noticed a slight hesitation at low rev while gradually increasing throttle. If I stomped on the throttle, it would hesitate a second, then accelerate like normal.

Scanned it again, this time less faults showed up, and no more misfires, but....

_Thursday,22,August,2013,13:14:39:63217
VCDS Version: Release 11.11.6
Data version: 20121223

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis Type: 1J - VW Golf/Bora IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: - Mileage: 218120km/135533miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 022-906-032-BDB.lbl
Part No SW: 022 906 032 FK HW: 022 906 032 BL
Component: United.24v.213 G xgC 
Coding: 0000032
Shop #: WSC 78649 539 370310
VCID: 59B9470993EF83D0075

1 Fault Found:
17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163) 
P1392 - 001 - Open Short to Plus - MIL ON
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102 
Coding: 0019970
Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
VCID: 3467D6BD54CD9EB8F43

1 Fault Found:
00526 - Brake Light Switch-F 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
Component: 08 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003 
Coding: 12344
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: 275D31F1C51BE520411

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 927 
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V02 
Coding: 00334
Shop #: WSC 93361 
VCID: E8DFF2CD8885AA5808B
9BWDH61J144013218 VWZ7Z0C7096254

2 Faults Found:
01177 - Engine Control Unit 
64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent
01304 - Radio 
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway KCAN 0001 
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: F0EF9AADB055629850B

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio 
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 8B Komfortger·t HLO 0003 
Coding: 00064
Shop #: WSC 00000 
VCID: 377DE1B115BB75A0D11

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
Component: 8B Tırsteuer.FS KLO 0202 

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
Component: 8B Tırsteuer.BF KLO 0202 

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------_

*Conclusions?*

*01177 - Engine Control Unit 
64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent*

- this showed up both times.... wtf would cause this?

*17800 - Camshaft Position Sensor Bank 2 (G163) 
P1392 - 001 - Open Short to Plus - MIL ON*

- need a new cam sensor? which one is bank 2?

*00526 - Brake Light Switch-F 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent*

- need a new brake light switch? To my knowledge it's never been replaced....


----------



## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

> *Conclusions?*
> 
> *01177 - Engine Control Unit
> 64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent*
> ...


control unit and cam issue could be a ground....check them all....

brake light switch is likely the other...they go without warning...my vw dealer gives them to me


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

brake light switch was..... brake light switch. 

after testing my cam position sensor connector I found the ground wire to be faulty. Fixed that (took two hours to unwrap, inspect, re-wrap!) and long story short - works great again. No more hesitation, pulls like crazy, misfire code was apparently attributed to the lack of ground at the connector - and I'm a happy boy once again.

VW and I have a very bad history when it comes to electrical (which is why I checked the harness up and down when the motor was out - and I still get this!!!) So I'll call myself lucky this time.

No more faults, dash is free of xmas lights (for the first time in 3-4 years!). Looking forward to the rest of the break in drive.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

*alternator question:*

I have a new Bosch alternator, new OE belt tensioner, new belt, new battery.

When I accelerate moderately quickly (doesn't have to be WOT, let's say 70% throttle or more) I get "Alternator Workshop!" flashing on the dash along with the battery symbol and an audible beeping sound.

When I cruise, it's fine.... the alternator warning on the dash only seems to pop up when I accelerate from a stoplight, and disappears when cruising. No noticeable effect on electrical (lights aren't dimming, radio doesn't cut out, car doesn't turn off etc).

A/C & P/S is deleted. Crank has a Fluidampr on it, water pump + tensioner + alternator are all gruvenparts pulleys.

The only thing I can think of at the moment.... is that I need to re-install the OE alternator clutched pulley instead of using the solid aluminum pulley? Whacha think?


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Are you sure the belt isn't slipping? Sometimes it's obvious because of the screeching noise, but depending on the belt age/material and the groove profile on the pulleys you might not hear it. If you rev the motor in neutral can you reproduce the same issue? I'm not sure if that would even trip the light (I've never owned a car that had that "feature"), but maybe if you have a healthy battery charge that warning will pop up before you would ever notice any side effects (lights dimming, etc.), and by that point the alternator has caught up to the belt...

I ask because when I started relocating my accessories around to fit my intake manifold I lost a good bit of belt wrap on my alternator... but knock on wood so far no issues. I'm wondering if you haven't lost some belt wrap by deleting various accessories. How's the belt tension? Does the 24v tensioner have the arrow and tension range indicator like it does on the old 12v tensioners?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

check your battery cables? is the battery tied down properly and not rocking? I was getting the battery light on hard acceleration and I thought it was the belt slipping but think it was a loose ground cable.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Battery connections are good, all grounds are good, battery is a dry cell bolted into a metal tie down, which is in turn bolted to the floor in the trunk (- it's solid). If I rev hard @ idle (quick blips up to 6k) I get "alt workshop" on the dash, but if I just rev conservatively (say 3k) no errors pop up.

The belt's tension is nice and tight.... but I think the long gap between the crank and alternator is contributing to some slip at moderate to high throttle. The belt may be wobbling a bit with that long open distance.

I was thinking I could gut my old P/S pump and use that as an idler pulley with a non A/C belt. That would shorten the belt distance and prevent it from possibly wobbling or flexing a bit when I step on the gas.

Trouble is, I can't get the damn pump apart. I removed a circlip on one end, but now I can't figure out how to get the rest of the "pump" part out of the housing.... anyone take apart a P/S pump? Or does anyone know someone that makes a bracket for an idler pulley?


----------



## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

If you have deleted your AC you would lose a lot of wrap around the pulley...(it's a 12v but i would assume a 24v is similar)










My mk4 vrt has the AC removed and I never realized how much wrap around the alternator pulley is lost until i read that post above and looked at this picture.

Makes me wonder if running a gutted AC compressor to save the weight but get the pulley back is a worth while option.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yeah, I never really put much thought into it either. 

It just occurred to me - maybe I can remove the oe accessory bracket, and make an alternator only bracket. I'd locate it further down, perhaps where the a/c would originally be (~half way down). 

Would that help re: big gap between crank and alt, or do I need to focus more so on belt wrap as opposed to gap?

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Are you sure you used the correct belt for AC and PS delete? I've got that same setup and have never had this issue. Even at WOT and 15lbs of boost. Mine is a 12v with all stock pulleys though...


----------



## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

CerealKiler said:


> Are you sure you used the correct belt for AC and PS delete? I've got that same setup and have never had this issue. Even at WOT and 15lbs of boost. Mine is a 12v with all stock pulleys though...


With ac and PS delete the angle of the belt is such that you still get a decent wrap around the alt pulley.

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk 4


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Well oddly enough my ABS pump and a coil pack died last night, and now I can pull all the way to 7000 without any alternator warning messages on the dash. (Swapped the coil pack, abs pump is still in)

Gotta hunt the yards for a new pump now....

also dyno this weekend if nothing else comes up!

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

What's the part number for that pump? I have a spare used one if you can't find one.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

actually just found out that the fuse for the ABS pump was shot... replaced it just now and all seems well :thumbup:

thanks tho


----------



## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> actually just found out that the fuse for the ABS pump was shot... replaced it just now and all seems well :thumbup:
> 
> thanks tho


No prob! Glad it was an easy fix.  I hate pulling those things out and replacing them...


----------



## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> also dyno this weekend if nothing else comes up!


Quoted so now you have to do it :wave:

Glad you got that last issue sorted, you've had your fair share of tough luck in this build.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Hah not quite.... got more than a few alt workshop beeps on my home from work. I can't seem to narrow this one down.

I'm going to try swapping to the original OEM pulleys for the water pump and alt to see if that changes anything. Maybe lightened pulleys in this config is not best. 

There's no belt squeak, and upon further "testing" the error pops up on the dash (coinciding with a sharp drop in voltage to around 11-12 from ~14, and recovering quickly back to 14ish) when I'm accelerating in 1st, and also right when I shift into 2nd and 3rd (right when I push in the clutch). Doesn't seem to happen with 4,5,6 - even under hard acceleration,and never during cruising. 

It was much colder out the day before when the error went away, and yesterday when it was warm again it came back.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Full 12v signal to the exciter wire? Continuity test back to the cluster?
You've done quite a bit of fab work in that area, that wire takes a beating from where it was around the battery tray.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

we were chasing the wrong gremlin....

after some electrical testing (everything was good) I went for another drive. This time I was gonna shoot a video so you guys could maybe narrow it down some more.... when my ABS light went up on the dash once again.

So I went back to the garage and checked it out... sure enough the same fuse blew. I traced the harness back some and found a short in the harness where I tucked it near the frame rail. That wire was the main +12v wire to the connector on the relay panel, which was where the ABS fuse was popping.

I repaired the short and everything seems to be operating normally. (and now I'm hoping the post-build surprises portion of this thread has concluded!)

gonna change the oil to some liqui-moli synthetic (break in is done) and install fresh spark plugs tomorrow. A dyno sheet should be up early next week (cuz Yareka quoted it )

I'm still running a bit lean @ WOT, so I'll play with the adjustable FPR tomorrow to try and sort that out.

anyone going to Berlin Klassik on Sunday can have a front row seat for the dyno run if all goes according to plan


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

506 whp @ ~18lbs

this is my daily so I didn't wanna push the 02m box too much. I'm happy (for now).

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)




----------



## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Nice, man! :thumbup: Hope all of your surprises are done. It seems like it's been nonstop for you!


----------



## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Congrats on 5!

Don't be afraid of the 02m, I just let out if it starts hopping which hardly ever happens


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks!

I might be able to get a spare 02m - if I can, I'll push further and see what this one can take. Until then, I've gotta chill. A few people keep telling me they broke boxes @ ~500 tq / ~550 hp.... Yareka are you running 6 spd? What do you push it to?










Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

As of last weekend I'm at 534hp, tq should be right around 400 but on the last numbers I didnt have rpm pickup so no tq. on those runs. But yeah I have a 6spd swapped in my corrado.
I'm pretty much at the same boost as you now. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6069084-Finally-on-the-Rollers

You should always have more tq than me having the 24v so that will be a factor, and I do have another o2m box available just in case. There are lots more 4cyl o2ms out there so I understand your hesitation for pushing it, but honestly with fwd that power is only usable on the dyno. I have boost by gear which really helps keeping wheelspin down.

edit
Holy sheet, I just realized you made that number at 5700 
Rev it out man, tq will only drop from there but with those cams/turbo you will make tremendous power out past 7k.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

it was a mobile dyno & no fan(s), but I got to make a few runs earlier in the morning so it wasn't too hot out yet (maybe ~21 C). I'm always a little sketch of mobile dynos after seeing a GLI come off one a few years back.... these guys seemed to be on point however.

First couple runs we were slipping on the dyno pretty good just running off the spring (~9psi / ~350whp), so we tried the other way and that seemed to work out better. I saw 506 on the screen and was cool with that. (I was just happy to see everything working.)


----------



## JDM-JTI (Sep 23, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> 506 whp @ ~19-20lbs
> 
> this is my daily so I didn't wanna push the 02m box too much. I'm happy (for now).
> 
> Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


nice numbers .. my 6162 on my R in FWD mode made 451 front wheel hp at 16 psi


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## Soundwave_vr6 (Oct 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

i saw your car @ berlin , looked good man. :beer:


----------



## mx3autozam (Nov 24, 2010)

Awesome build man. me and my buddy were talking to you about your car, my buddy was really interested in your clutch if you remember

just read your build too, pretty cool stuff in there. The dyno seemed pretty good this year compared to previous years, alot of people were saying it was giving low numbers but i found it decent at least for my car,and the bunch I seen running. its defenitly not on par with a proper dynojet but its still fun to see great numbers.

good luck


----------



## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

Congratulations, 

im sure your very happy - and releived that its running nicely !!

Well Done ! 

Also, it looks sweet on the rollers.

Jason.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks guys I appreciate all the comments :thumbup:

It's been an up and down build to say the least, so yeah I'm more than happy to drive it around finally. I'm hyped up to get on the track this weekend to see what it can really do.

had to change a front wheel bearing out yesterday... that was no fun. But she's good as new again


----------



## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Eww... Wheel Bearings.... I've had to do three of those on my daily 2.0. Not a fun repair at all! Have fun at the track! Bring us back some video :thumbup:


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I'm sure your front tires like that torque.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> I'm sure your front tires like that torque.


heh yeah.... you can say that 

these tires were used for about a month before the tear down last year (1 or 2 lapping events and daily), and a few weeks this year. 

Front 










Rear










I should probably rotate before the track day....



CerealKiler said:


> Bring us back some video :thumbup:


shouldn't be a problem! Hopefully it'll be nice out. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

that reason right there is exactly why I bought an R32. :laugh:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

No track 

Got called into work.



Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

no way! I can't believe this is your car!

I have been reading your build for a whole bunch of nights now, if you remeber i was asking you 5000000 questions at Berlin Klassik

increadible build mate! sounded increadible on the dyno!


----------



## Rocksalt (Jan 9, 2013)

Just read this whole thread. Clean ass build man. Def bookmarking this. 

Welds look good. Now all you gotta do is swap in a TT rear floorpan and go AWD


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Rocksalt said:


> Just read this whole thread. Clean ass build man. Def bookmarking this.
> 
> Welds look good. Now all you gotta do is swap in a TT rear floorpan and go AWD


:thumbup::thumbup::laugh:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

track carnage incoming :banghead:

broke the dogbone. It wasn't hit, as I have a steel skid plate and it's undamaged.










and that led to this:










and this: (used to be a 90)










the dogbone broke somewhere during the lap, the engine swung forward, and crushed the fitting somewhere on the front end. 

I immediately checked my gauges after I heard a strange sound - the oil pressure gauge read ~70psi and quickly dropped. That's all I needed to see - at that point I knew something was wrong so I basically swerved the car right off the track, directly into the sand, and shut it down.

Anyway I got it back to the garage, repaired the oil feed line, re-filled with oil, and attempted to start. All I heard was one loud "click" from the starter. That's when I started to think that the block may have seized. Tried to manually turn the crank, wouldn't budge in either direction.

So this is where I'm at.


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## Soundwave_vr6 (Oct 1, 2007)

that sucks man 


was that just a oem dogbone? no poly?


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

my guess is bearing failure, but I hope I'm wrong.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

it _was_ an 034 dogbone, track density inserts. I was pushing 25psi at the track. 18-19 psi was ~500, so you can guess as to what 25 may be. Nothing hit it, skid plate is fine, it just broke.

and yeah it looks like bearings..... hopefully the ceramic coating saved the crank. I went with ceramic for a situation just like this. Pulling the spark plugs didn't help. Draining the oil now, and this is what the magnetic drain plug looks like.

:facepalm:


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Sorry dude, this sucks


----------



## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

I want to cry for you :/


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

It's not too bad cuz my setup is simple and minimal, so it's easy to work on.

But - if I ended up scoring / scratching my crank then yes, please cry for me.

So we'll see how this turns out.....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I spun a bearing earlier this year, about a month after my motor was freshly built. luckily I was able to grind the crank and get oversized bearings from techtonics.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> I spun a bearing earlier this year, about a month after my motor was freshly built. luckily I was able to grind the crank and get oversized bearings from techtonics.


Shiet any pics? lol Ive only been driving for a month or so too.....

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

pics of the crank? I don't think I took any. But here is one of the bearings the other one spun around 180* and welded itself to the other half.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^ouch. was that an OE bearing (ie non-coated)? I'm interested to see what the differences will be with my coated bearings, if any. basically wondering if coatings actually do make a difference.

noob q: after I take the rod bearing caps off and get the crank out - if the piston walls look OK, and the pistons move freely, would it be OK to leave them in to avoid re-hone for rings etc? Or should I definitely 100% take them out and check them no matter what? My wallet is insanely light right now so I'm trying to think of ways to minimize spending.

Basically if all I need is new bearings could I just swap em out and go?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> ^ouch. was that an OE bearing (ie non-coated)? I'm interested to see what the differences will be with my coated bearings, if any. basically wondering if coatings actually do make a difference.
> 
> noob q: after I take the rod bearing caps off and get the crank out - if the piston walls look OK, and the pistons move freely, would it be OK to leave them in to avoid re-hone for rings etc? Or should I definitely 100% take them out and check them no matter what? My wallet is insanely light right now so I'm trying to think of ways to minimize spending.
> 
> Basically if all I need is new bearings could I just swap em out and go?


Yes it was an OE bearing. I'm not convinced that the coated ones are all that.

If you spun a bearing it is likely that the heat damaged a rod and that it will need to be replaced. I sent all my rods to the machine shop and they found that 2 of them needed to be replaced and that another 2 or 3 needed to be fixed as they were slightly out of round. All 6 of my pistons and rings were fine so I re-used them.

It is worth it to have them checked out as putting damaged rods back in could cause another immediate failure and cost you even more money.


----------



## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Holy crap! You destroyed that sucker.... Man dude, that sucks so bad! Sorry that happened to you.... You just got this thing reliable.  Hopefully you shot it off fast enough that the rods aren't shot.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ok thanks

did you have to re-hone the cylinders? (being that the rings and pistons were okay)

Some people around here are telling me if the rings / pistons / cylinders are OK then just keep the same pistons in the same cylinders and run it. Others say anytime the pistons are out, you need to re-hone and grab new rings. What did you do?


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> ok thanks
> 
> did you have to re-hone the cylinders? (being that the rings and pistons were okay)
> 
> Some people around here are telling me if the rings / pistons / cylinders are OK then just keep the same pistons in the same cylinders and run it. Others say anytime the pistons are out, you need to re-hone and grab new rings. What did you do?


The cylinder walls still looked brand new. It's not necessary.


----------



## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Dammit dude, just as you were making progress with this thing :banghead:

Wish I would have known you were using the track density mounts, never seen the dogbone mount go out but there are many issues with the motor/trans mounts cracking from sh$t castings or the bushing going out prematurely. So basically that mount costed you the motor 

I would most definitely contact them and let them know, they might step up


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yeah I gave em a call..... they basically said I can't be covered for the 1yr warranty as my invoice is just over a year old (when I was still gathering parts for the build).

I like 034 - good bunch of guys over there. This is the first time I've been really disappointed with any of their products. 

Oh, and just noticed this on the down pipe. Awesome.


----------



## Soundwave_vr6 (Oct 1, 2007)

that middle bushing looks oem [edit: its solid vs slotted(oem)]


this is a oem on a 1.8t just to give you a idea of how much it moves(he has e brake on and letting out clutch)








http://s395.photobucket.com/user/big_roller89/media/VID_20130930_124919_0732.mp4.html



:beer:


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

piston / rod #1










piston / rod #4










piston / rod #5





































I go from a corvette killer to a #barelyrunning, #needsalignment, #liftersticking, #roofisleaking, #deadshockbouncing.... $100 GMC Safari! How the mighty have fallen.....


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

ouch, looks like at least two of those rods are done for. When they get heat buildup around the journal like that they aren't any good anymore. The crank looks bad but you never know until you get it checked by a machine shop. Lots of bearing material smeared on that one journal.


----------



## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Did the block make it? The mains look good, other then the cap with the thrust washer. The side against the rag looks worn.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Jo|\| said:


> Did the block make it? The mains look good, other then the cap with the thrust washer. The side against the rag looks worn.


The bearing is still in the cap.


----------



## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Sorry, I meant all the main surfaces look good, including the bearings, expect that one.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I was just reminded by a friend to have you check out your turbo too. We have a friend who lost oil pressure and his turbo seized up and had to be replaced.


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Block is good and main caps are fine. The coated bearings took a hit here n there..... but underneath everything is smooth. The rod bearings and journals took the most damage.

Machine shop just told me my crank is garbage. It's cracked on the 4th rod journal. I may have a source for a used crank with 55k for about $400. If anyone else has a good BDF crank please let me know.

2 rods are definitely going to need replacing, and a 3rd rod is a bit suspect. I figure if I'm going to order two new rods, I may as well add a third and sleep easy.

Pistons and rings are undamaged, cylinder walls are smooth and still show signs of cross hatch. Turbo spins freely and doesn't make any scary noises so I assume it's OK.


----------



## Soundwave_vr6 (Oct 1, 2007)

call up the source and ask how much for a bdf. they had one for sure there on Saturday. they are good guys and pretty cheap. whole place is vw parts 


http://www.thesourceforvw.com/directions.html


:beer:


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Block is good and main caps are fine. The coated bearings took a hit here n there..... but underneath everything is smooth. The rod bearings and journals took the most damage.
> 
> Machine shop just told me my crank is garbage. It's cracked on the 4th rod journal. I may have a source for a used crank with 55k for about $400. If anyone else has a good BDF crank please let me know.
> 
> ...


Yeah I would do the 3rd rod for peace of mind. We put mine on a Sunnen machine and a couple of them were very slightly ovaled so we had the caps ground and then honed the centers to get them round again.


----------



## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

All that because of those garbage 034 mounts :facepalm: That's like the 3rd set of various 034 mounts I've seen come loose and trash a bunch of stuff. Yours is the worst though


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

I believe I have a BDF crank.


----------



## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Are you going to spring for the coated bearings again?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> Are you going to spring for the coated bearings again?


Nah. I don't think the coatings did much to help me out, so they aren't really worth it IMO. 

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk now Free


----------



## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Hmm some good info I'll definitely be considering this build season... I can't believe the mount snapped like that.


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## vr-vagman (May 15, 2010)

I'd take the oil jets removal advice with huge grain of salt. Better instal new ones. You also don't need too high oil pressure. It wont help but will rob power and additionaly heat the oil. I do respect everyone's opinion but bear in mind out there there are hundreds of 300-400-500-...hp VRT engines performing flawlessly without almost all of these mods. At least for sure these mods wont hurt.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Cleaned up the recent stuff. 

Please play nice.


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

nater said:


> Cleaned up the recent stuff.
> 
> Please play nice.


Glad it wasn't locked permanently! I got bummed for a second. It's squeaky clean now :thumbup:


----------



## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

I found an old dog bone in the garage today and noticed it looks nothing then yours, other then the obvious mine isn't cracked part . The transmission side of mine is solid, where yours has holes cast in it.

I'm going to take a guess and say that can't help overall strength.

*Mine*









*Yours*









Even though the whole dog bone was purchased from 034, and it was obviously a faulty product if it failed that quickly, I don't think to much blame can be on them. I don't think there is a single company that actually makes the metal for their dog bones, other then VF making their own custom one, everyone just drops in their own poly and sells them. ECS, BFI, and 034 all run OEM metal and poly inserts. As far as I know anyway.


I say make something like FFE did with their MK5 drag car.

Then you'll gain a mount that take a ton of abuse and takes stress off those 2 bolts holes on the bottom of the trans.


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

We made a dogbone replacement mount out of steel for a friends car and it seems to be working pretty well. In his case the original mount didn't fail, but he had an incident where the mount holes got ripped out of the bottom of the gearbox 

I'm only speculating here, but I'm guessing that there are different quality (and cost) castings for the dogbone that vendors can buy and then install their inserts in. 

I recently decided to try a cheap mk4 steel/aluminum hybrid oil pan for my wife's car. It was obviously cast in China, and the quality was horrendous. When I went to weld an oil return bung on it the pan basically disintegrated... the casting was dirty and super porous. About a year ago I welded a bung on the exact same pan, purchased new from the dealership ($$$) and it welded perfectly. I should have known better :facepalm:


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Jo|\| said:


> I say make something like FFE did with their MK5 drag car.
> 
> Then you'll gain a mount that take a ton of abuse and takes stress off those 2 bolts holes on the bottom of the trans.


I like it. Multiple stress points to spread load, solid mount, strong brace at the subframe, it can double as a dust shield for the lower part of the trans, and most importantly - eliminates or negates the torsional stress that 02M dogbones struggle with (I think it's within my abilities to fab too, which makes this doubly tempting for me).

This, perhaps paired with some steel delrin engine / trans mounts.... :heart:


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

That is a cool idea! I would say the thickness of the plate would have to be accounted for. Did they shim the fw or machine some material off of the bell housing?

Sent from my SGH-T989D using Tapatalk


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

I really wish another company would produce the dogbone mounts Yarrow sport used to sell.


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## Soundwave_vr6 (Oct 1, 2007)

T-Boy said:


> I really wish another company would produce the dogbone mounts Yarrow sport used to sell.



i had never seen that one before. found this, looks diff then the one you posted


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

Yeah back when Yarrow Sport was around they sold these mounts. I wish I had bought one when they were available. Both functionally designed the same...just different colors and the main bulkhead has some sight changes. :thumbup:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I am using a stock dogbone with BFI bushings and has been working great. :thumbup:


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

The problem I see with the 034 mount is that the small bushing is always the failure point. It either destroys the bushing, or breaks the mount all together. The better option is to use a spherical bearing in the small end so all the load transfers to the larger bushings on the rear of the mount. Take a look at the APTuning mount.

http://www.aptuning.com/index.php?p...tegory_id=703&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=14

:thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yeah I called APTuning a while back - they basically said spherical bearings (etc) aren't going to do much to help me - as the problem lies with the casting itself. Most MK4 dogbones on the market right now are basically OE aluminum castings with inserts (I'm sure most of you know that). I probably need something along the lines of solid steel mounts, not casted aluminum. OR a custom steel cradle.

Even VF's billet mount may not be sufficient. (I know of a turbo R32 that recently broke the VF dogbone as well believe it or not.... and he's at roughly the same HP / TQ.)

Update:

Found a BDF crank with 32,000 km's on it. I sent it out to get magnaflux'd / checked - it's all good - it just needed a polish.

Now.... I need rods and bearings. 034 is basically saying "you're on your own, buddy" - so no support there.


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Damn man... I know I saw some IE rods on the Forced Induction classifieds a while back. They were brand new in the box. If you can't find any there, check out Four Season Tuning. I got all of my parts from them, IE rods, Wiseco pistions, etc, and it was a very good price. I use them for all the parts I need.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

IE rods are sold in sets and are balanced to each other within a certain weight. IF you contact IE they might be able to find some singles that match your other rods. Otherwise you will want the machine shop to balance them.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Please take a look at my classifieds thread. If you know anyone that needs anything I've got please send them my way. Thanks!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...AEM-Forge-CTS-Kiwi-Tial-P3Cars-stuff-for-sale!!


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

*FV-QR*

^^ IE surge tank.. tempted


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> 034 is basically saying "you're on your own, buddy" - so no support there.


Thats fuctup :thumbdown:
You have a WELL documented build that many are following and obviously the failure of their part forces the rebuild. They could atleast work some rods and bearings at cost(no cost to them) to get you up and going faster. And if they really wanted to help, send you the new billet dogbone to test out. So many big companies fail to swoop in and make things right when their parts fail. We all realize that shi7 happens when you pushing it. How the company handles that situation makes or breaks it.

The most promising design is that Forcefed fab dogbone that utilizes the bellhousing bolts. If I was tracking a high hp car with a dogbone, that would be the direction I'd take.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

update:
- new crank and replacement rods arrived. sent them out to the machine shop to get balanced.

in the meantime....

any suggestions on how to repair this dent in the down pipe? (I'd like to repair it as opposed to replacing the section - it's cut at an odd angle and will be a bit*h to match up perfectly again....)



















- added a USB port in the ash tray


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## vr-vagman (May 15, 2010)

About the dent on the DP I can imagine only two ways of repair. The first one is welding bolt on the bended area and using bolt's head and serious puller to pull the dent back. Then grind the bolt and reweld it somewrere closer to the first welding place and again.... I've seen this technique for body & pannel repair. The other way is to drill a hole in the opposite side of the dent and push/punch it out using hammer and a punch.


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> - added a USB port in the ash tray
> 
> <img src="http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd461/originaltransporter/USB_zps26843467.jpg" height="300px" width=350px"></img>


And was this done with a part you made? That's so 'OEM' looking, it's not funny. I want one! 

as for the dent, you could always get your hands on some liquid nitrogen and some hot hot heat. That might work, or it'll crack your whole DP. May be a fun experiment though! :thumbup:


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

T-Boy said:


> I really wish another company would produce the dogbone mounts Yarrow sport used to sell.


I made something very similar for Metric's race car


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

CerealKiler said:


> And was this done with a part you made? That's so 'OEM' looking, it's not funny. I want one!


while I was grabbing some 6ga wire at an audio shop near my work I saw a Clarion USB extension that looked like it would fit where the cigarette lighter slot is. It's called a Clarion CCA-USB. I just took the orange ring off of the cigarette lighter, tightened the nut on the CCA-USB, and connected the USB male end to my car deck (which has a USB female end).


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

New Dogbone mount from 034
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Billet-Dogbone-Mount-MkIV-Volkswagen-R32-***


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)




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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

:thumbup:

I'd like to coat mine also, but for now I'm lazy and will wait until I have some other excuse to remove it


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yeah I'm the exact same way, I woulda ran mine "naked" until I had to take it off for whatever reason. I was rushed the first time so didn't have the opportunity to coat everything. 

now that everything is off and I have some time... I can look after the small details.

still debating whether or not to powder coat the valve cover and intake manifold.... going for a black / aluminum theme


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

looks good...i just still cant bring myself to coat mine....so pretty still! :laugh:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

The performance benefits outweigh the cosmetic.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

Coat it at home?

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

pro did the coatings


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

DarkSideGTI said:


> The performance benefits outweigh the cosmetic.


That's like your opinion, man! 

But in all seriousness, my EGTs are still barely 1200F, I have no need! :beer: so pretty wins!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ever since I first coated some parts on my old car, I quickly saw that the performance benefits were real. I struggled in the past with VRT under hood temps..... coatings helped immensely.

I have to say though that all coatings are NOT equal, and all coating PROCESSES are not the same. I go to the same guy for all my powder / ceramic coating, and for the ceramic baking process he brings the parts up to temp and back down more than a few times overnight.... he says it takes anywhere from ~4-6 hours to bake with his process.

oh and I whipped out the credit card today to take advantage of all the black friday sales.... so some rebuild goodies should be here soon. gonna try to get the motor back together this weekend as well. wish me luck!


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

Where did you find black friday sales on car parts?! I've been looking all over...  


I hadn't known the coatings made that big of a difference. I'm going to have to consider getting it done myself. I hate the way wraps look. Just 'cluttery' in my opinion. Glad your getting it back up and running!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

CerealKiler said:


> Where did you find black friday sales on car parts?! I've been looking all over...


not sure if that was sarcastic? (cuz my email was and still is spammed by black friday stuff)

BFI, CTS, ECS, USP are all having sales


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> not sure if that was sarcastic? (cuz my email was and still is spammed by black friday stuff)
> 
> BFI, CTS, ECS, USP are all having sales


Oh, right on. Thank you! I haden't seen anything for black friday sales at all on parts.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^no prob

got some goodies.... ready to rebuild!!










BFI delrin engine / trans mounts










now you see em...










now you don't....










installed WARNING LIGHTS THAT WILL ACTUALLY GIVE ME ENOUGH TIME TO BE USEFUL! -WOW! also added two push button switches for certain things....
"aka OEM warning lights suck mad donkey d*ck"










block and head after a good bath in the parts washer..... and a fresh paint job. I hope I got all that bearing material outta there.....



















and you can call me a big suck or whatever.... 
but the rest of this build will be dedicated to the memory of Paul Walker. His death (surprisingly) hit me pretty hard, which was not expected at all TBH. I'm not the kinda guy to mourn a celebrity, but his death was very reminiscent of a friend's passing roughly a decade ago so I suppose I was reminded of that. That being said, F&F was / is a great inspirational tool for me - when I get stuck / frustrated on the build I'll often pop in a F&F blu-ray to get my mind back on track - and Brian O'Conner was a big part of that. So thanks for everything Paul - I'm sure you're sliding sideways in a crazy Skyline in heaven right now..... but the rest of this build is for you.

RIP PAUL WALKER

..... now the buster has to get back to work.


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## CerealKiler (May 10, 2011)

So jealous! Can't wait till I can get a garage and do this on mine... For some reason, I like working on it more than driving it. :screwy:

So sad to hear about Paul Walker... I've heard more about his passing than any celebrity, even Michael Jackson! Hope everything goes well for you throughout this rebuild. Those derlin mounts look awesome! I was considering them for mine, but went with the green stage 2 mounts. Wondering if I should just buy those inserts sometime as the green inserts aren't that bad at all.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> and you can call me a big suck or whatever....
> but the rest of this build will be dedicated to the memory of Paul Walker. His death (surprisingly) hit me pretty hard, which was not expected at all TBH. I'm not the kinda guy to mourn a celebrity, but his death was very reminiscent of a friend's passing roughly a decade ago so I suppose I was reminded of that. That being said, F&F was / is a great inspirational tool for me - when I get stuck / frustrated on the build I'll often pop in a F&F blu-ray to get my mind back on track - and Brian O'Conner was a big part of that. So thanks for everything Paul - I'm sure you're sliding sideways in a crazy Skyline in heaven right now..... but the rest of this build is for you.
> 
> RIP PAUL WALKER
> ...


You and me both man. :thumbup: I've never had a celebrity death hit me so hard. Maybe it's because it reminds me of what me and my dumb friends (used to) do all the time in the name of living.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

DarkSideGTI said:


> You and me both man. :thumbup: I've never had a celebrity death hit me so hard. Maybe it's because it reminds me of what me and my dumb friends (used to) do all the time in the name of living.


I have to agree with you. I was just into modding cars a year before the first movie was released. And my friends and I still go on cruises and track days together every year. He was part of growing up and shared his same passion


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

almost there....... had a good weekend

HPA roll bar install










then I took a pizza / hoegaarden / Fast Five break and assembled the short block in one 90 min straight shot :thumbup:


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Have you decided what you're going to do about the dogbone?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

not yet


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

alright now that the motor is almost back in the car I have the final damage report:

Rad support needed to be replaced (big crack) - found one used on the cheap cheap
SS 3.5" down pipe dent was banged out, and I had to get a new PT&E v-band flange to attach to the turbo as the weld on top got cracked open pretty good
rubber exhaust hangers under the car (near the resonator / cat, and by the muffler in the back) had to be replaced - they were all torn up from excessive movement (dog bone failure)
engine mount - mounting holes in the frame rail had to be welded and re-tapped (the mount's rubber insert gave out and must have shifted the entire mount once the dog bone gave out)
flex-a-lite dual fan shroud was cracked open, radiator seems OK
aeroquip PTFE ss braided turbo feed line had to be tossed.... the hose was no good as it had a bunch of metal bits trapped in the inner teflon lining (going with aluminum hard line this time)
small part of the engine harness that was tucked by the frame rail was pulled out when the dog bone died and had to be soldered (relocated the fuse box to the rain tray to avoid this in the future)
three connecting rods were bent and severely out of round - had to be replaced
main and rod bearings all replaced
replacement crank was needed as some rod bearings basically welded themselves to the crank journals, and one journal had a fair size crack in it (pistons & rings + cylinder walls were OK)
oil filter housing had a small crack at the bottom, I managed to repair it though by welding it back together
firewall had a big chunk of reflective heat barrier missing.... I think one of the hot waste gates rammed right into the heat barrier and melted away a good size circle. Replaced with DEI heat barrier.
brake line that runs at the firewall was twisted / mashed closed (again, WG must have smashed into it when the dogbone let go) - made a new brake hard line - all the way from the ABS unit to the right front brake caliper


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## Soundwave_vr6 (Oct 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

that's quite a list. cant wait to see it around. :beer:


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Way to keep it going after a huge setback. I can see big things coming of this car in 2014 :thumbup:


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

fantastic thread, just read it post by post since 2days !

really enjoy you way of work, and info supplies.

I'm currently grabbing another engine to go forged, and I planning on doing exactly the same.

was thinking about making some kind of small ports R30...

my euro engine, names AQP is almost the same as your except the VVT ( so can't put a R32 head )...

I was really curious about the bore, would love to bore to 84.5mm from 81mm so I just wanted to have you thoughts about that.

BTW i'm almost like you, it's a kind of daily, going on holiday with it, sometimes drag race, sometimes trackdays... multiple use so need something really reliable !!! trackdays is the most streesful way to test a car imo and seing what happens to you is really helpful !!!

also got the BFI mount but stage 1, the yellow bushes, the GB one cracked while i was running FWD, BFI so gave me some green ones, and driving them was nothing but painful, REALLY! so i can't imagine what gives the white ones !!!! ( the yellow ones where perfect for me, so currently still have them with my OEM GB mount)

i'm really pleased and enjoyed by your work so keep going on !!! thx again and again ! Julien
(you may have a look at my setup just to have some more comparisons  )

One more question, how about the mishi's and the fans ??? my crappy SPAL clones ( 80W) on my OEM 13years old rad can't handle the heat while i'm on traffic jams, but work well on the track...)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks guys. hopefully we can meet up in person this summer and shoot the s h i t a bit 
Ima try to make it down to SOWO / H2o this year.... we'll see how that turns out though.

I could be wrong about all of this - so someone correct me.... but....
84.5mm I think wouldn't be possible in a 12v or 24v block for a few reasons-

1- the head gasket can only accommodate a max of around 83mm bore
2- the holes where the head bolts (or studs) go are M11 (I think) in a 24v / 12v, where the R32 has M10 - I'm thinking to accommodate their 84mm piston size
3- I was told not to go over 82.5 / 83 (~2.9L) if I want it to be reliable / strong and to avoid over heating issues

84.5 on an R32 block? shouldn't be a problem as far as I know and should be common as the next size overbore.

re: mishimoto rad and flex-a-lite slim line dual fans
- this setup works extremely well in all conditions. Only 40+ celsius weather in stop n go traffic on the highway (stuck for about 2-3 hours) made it necessary to use the manual switch override found on the fan controller I installed. If my temps rise too much in traffic I can just flip a switch and turn the fans on full blast for as long as needed (and in traffic it just needs a few minutes to cool everything back down). I also turn the fan on max when staging at the drag strip. The fan controller is key in this particular setup. It all works and fits great though, I say go for it. (note: in my situation the stock fans with the mishi rad wouldn't clear my intake manifold - so very slim fans were needed. Just an FYI if working on an MKIV with a SRI.)


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> thanks guys. hopefully we can meet up in person this summer and shoot the s h i t a bit
> Ima try to make it down to SOWO / H2o this year.... we'll see how that turns out though.


Definitely give us a heads up if you'll be down for SoWo :thumbup:


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Glad to see you are getting back on track!!

Quick question, 

Where did you get fittings to convert the rad hoses to AN fittings as shown in this pic?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

gdt said:


> Where did you get fittings to convert the rad hoses to AN fittings as shown in this pic?


that's a temporary solution actually. I'm not sure I can say who is making it yet, but I'm waiting on a company to release an aluminum t-stat housing with AN connections. Should be released soon, so I'm told. If you can't wait for the aluminum housing though-

fittings are -16AN to 1.5" hose connection - http://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/mez-wa16150u/overview/
the silicone adapters are from http://www.hps-siliconehoses.com



leebro61 said:


> Definitely give us a heads up if you'll be down for SoWo :thumbup:


will do :beer:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I tapped the inside of my housing with a 1/2" NPT tap and then threaded in a NPT to AN fitting. Has been working great for a couple years. You just have to be careful not to tighten too much as I cracked a housing on the first try.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^ nice

what did you seal the NPT with?


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Just a bit of some RTV on the threads.


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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

^Thats ballsy right there, I like it.


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

Thanks for the info!

for the bore i was just thinking about having a custom headgasket as i must use a AQP one, the head is really different from your BDE ( yours all like the R32 instead of the bolts and bore diameter ) will take some pics while i'll split the engine.
So i think i'm just gonna bore out to 83, the main issue is to find some pistons easily, want to have 9:1 CR, i'm gonna run pump gas SP98 like I am actually.

Thanks for the info about the rad/fan, i think i gonna go mishi, with REAL spal fans, as i don't have much room with my SRI as you said. will have a look at a nice fan controller, will also have to find a fan for my oil rad, while on the road, everything ok but when standing at ZERO oil temp does not go under 110°C ... 

love the idea of alu thermostat housing, but would def prefer bigger connections, as on the mishi i intend to put also bigger hoses, the oem connecting plug seems too restrictive imo...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The 2.8 blocks will go to 83.5mm easily. Any more and you need to trim the headgasket. 84-85mm has been done before. I wouldnt go over 83mm boosted there really isnt much reason. 

Those -16an fittings on the rad really restrict flow. I wouldnt put them on anything especially a street car.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

I had to do an overbore to my 3.2 back in 2010. Its 85mm now which hi have not had any heating issues at all with but i believe that is more common on the 12v going to large with an overbore.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Those -16an fittings on the rad really restrict flow. I wouldnt put them on anything especially a street car.


Good call. That's one of the reasons why I like having this thread.

-20 is the biggest hose adapter I can find.... good enough?

edit: nah nvm. after looking at -20 / -24 fitting prices I'll have to stick with that stainless 1.625" line I had before. I can return those -16AN adapters tho thankfully


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You are way better off using hose couplers and fabbing aluminum hard lines out of sch40 pipe than the -16an. 7/8" id you are leaving a lot of cooling capability on the table. I wouldnt go under 1" and 1-1/8 to 1-1/4" if possible.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^ thnx paul. oversight on my part for sure.

the hole that I made to access the down pipe dent got me thinking..... it was in a great spot to recirculate the waste gates. Problem is lack of space to allow for flex sections. The 90 degree dump tubes at the waste gates almost touch the back of the firewall.... so there's no more room horizontally. If I trim the dump tubes I can potentially have about 7" vertical space to work with.


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

recirc need a really big exhaust system, 3.5" all long mini to compensate the amount of back pressure that your waste gates will provide, they also need to be smoothly inserted in the DP to minimise perturbations...

if you can put the two wg together, and then let the WGpipes go further behind to insert them way later or better let them go up the the end of the car. (currently thinking at all about that for my next 4" exhaust)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

good point. the flow will probably suffer a lot with the waste gates exiting vertically like that.

winter weather has us busy as f*ck in the body shop here. I'm looking at too many smacked up cars right now. no time to work on the VRT 

will update after the new year sometime. everyone have a good xmas and new years!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Can I bypass the OEM oil pressure sensor? Ie remove it and use my own warning system? Does the ecu need it?

some shots of the progress.....










SS turbo oil drain


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Can I bypass the OEM oil pressure sensor? Ie remove it and use my own warning system? Does the ecu need it?
> ]


im sure you can get rid of it, however, you will get some sort of a warning light, unless you figure out how to "resist" it out...you should be able to put read the resistance across the sensor and see what it reads, then test that with it unplugged....


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

I love this thread, you employ such interesting things to your build...

Any details on that catch can set up? It appears to be a series setup, is the concept to have the first can act as baffle to drop out all the oil??? does it recirculate back to the inlet tract?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

before being forced to rebuild I had some blow by issues when I turned the boost up past ~18 psi. The dip stick would blow out any time I pushed hard - but no oil would come up or anything like that. Since I plan on running the engine well into mid 20's boost, and I already had blow by @ 18 psi, I figured more venting would be necessary (yes, I checked leak down and compression - was all good). I took a queue from some high HP civic guys and vented the block directly, with an additional vent port on the valve cover. (you often see 3 or 4 vent ports coming off the valve covers on high HP civic turbo builds)

One catch can is responsible for the valve cover, the other takes care of the block vent. I will not be recirculating for the time being. As a test I removed the recirc hose on the old setup and installed a filter (to vent to atmosphere)..... still wasn't enough. (Hence my current "overkill" plan.)

however keep in mind most turbo street cars will not need to do this.....

The catch cans are from Radium Engineering and I used the stock bracket mounting locations on the cam cover (m6x1.0 bolts with a couple custom stainless steel spacers). The radium bracket needed a minor modification to bolt up to the stock locations. Both cans are individually baffled and there's a check valve at the block vent.

this pic "explains" it better -


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I hate how stinky my vented catch can is.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

fouckhest said:


> im sure you can get rid of it, however, you will get some sort of a warning light, unless you figure out how to "resist" it out...you should be able to put read the resistance across the sensor and see what it reads, then test that with it unplugged....


thanks - Ima give it a shot :thumbup: (that sensor is less than useless.... don't want it in there!)



DarkSideGTI said:


> I hate how stinky my vented catch can is.


it's only stinky if you're going slow! 
nevertheless.... my gf will surely let me know multiple times of her displeasure with the VRT odours. I work in a body shop all day so my sense of smell is pretty much null and void from all the dust and crap I inhale on the daily. (So for me, meh.) Eventually I wanna connect the catch cans with a vacuum pump (sorta like Yareka has done)..... AND recirc it. that's the best way.



one more thing to add onto the repairs list (or bill depending how you look at it) - 3 of 4 threads at the main engine mounting locations wouldn't hold full torque = stripped at the bottom. When the mounts gave out and the engine started swinging it musta ripped the bolts up a few threads. Just ordered Time-Sert inserts this time to make it nice and strong. (damn they pricey)


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> it's only stinky if you're going slow!


Mine is located on my passenger side and I think the cabin filter draws in a lot of the fumes.


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> before being forced to rebuild I had some blow by issues when I turned the boost up past ~18 psi. The dip stick would blow out any time I pushed hard - but no oil would come up or anything like that. Since I plan on running the engine well into mid 20's boost, and I already had blow by @ 18 psi, I figured more venting would be necessary (yes, I checked leak down and compression - was all good). I took a queue from some high HP civic guys and vented the block directly, with an additional vent port on the valve cover. (you often see 3 or 4 vent ports coming off the valve covers on high HP civic turbo builds)
> 
> One catch can is responsible for the valve cover, the other takes care of the block vent. I will not be recirculating for the time being. As a test I removed the recirc hose on the old setup and installed a filter (to vent to atmosphere)..... still wasn't enough. (Hence my current "overkill" plan.)
> 
> ...



Sweet...

another question...Where did you get that AN fitting for the vac line on the brake booster? I have a project that is need of one of those!!


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

gdt said:


> Where did you get that AN fitting for the vac line on the brake booster?


It looks like it might be this one, http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g1465


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Boost lines for dual wg + ebc, using a vacuum manifold. Never seen it done this way. All lines are equal length. Vortex approved or not a good plan?


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Even with the coatings I might worry about heat having it located right there, unless the picture is really skewing the perspective? 

I went through the equal length line routing argument in my head when I did my setup and I eventually convinced myself that it doesn't really matter. If everything else were at equal pressures, then great, but I'm sure the pressure each wastegate sees in the manifold is at least slightly different anyway and all of the control logic on the top half of the wastegate is relative to that pressure. (For example: wastegate on cyls 1/2/3 see's two short exhaust ports and one long port and cyls 4/5/6 see's the opposite).

I think you've seen my setup before... but I run the gate signal lines "in series" instead of "in parallel" and it seems to work just fine. I initially set out to have a tee fitting split just before each wastegate and feed them more uniformly, but I wanted to at least try this way first because it looks cool, was easier to do, less chances of leaks, etc. 










edit - typo...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yeah I like ^^ - are they stainless hard lines?

I wonder if a 4 port solenoid would work with my aem tru-boost.....


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Yes sir... except for the lines directly behind the turbo. Those are aluminum, but will be replaced with stainless lines when I run out of other projects.

My turbosmart doesn't seem to care 4 port vs. 3 port, so I doubt your aem would mind. My only complaint about the 4 port is that the fittings are just a tiny bit too close to each other to be able to run -4 fittings side by side, that's why I had to run -3 to the top of the gate. :facepalm:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

leebro61 said:


> My only complaint about the 4 port is that the fittings are just a tiny bit too close to each other to be able to run -4 fittings side by side, that's why I had to run -3 to the top of the gate. :facepalm:


I was wondering about that..... wasn't sure if the photo angle was playing tricks with my eyes or not.

edit- actually can you go through the wg connections? looks like you've connected wg#1 (pass side) and wg#2 (drivers) to top and bottom (wg has multiple top / bottom ports?), then wg#1 top and bottom ports go to solenoid, then boost reference is taken from the manifold? and the other remaining line is a vent somewhere down the line? sorry - I'm a complete dual WG nub. if it works good then that's a hella clean way to do it (makes sense in my head anyway).

also - too close?


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Correct, the boost solenoid connects directly to the passenger side wastegate, and then I have jumper lines that connect the two wastegates together... so the pressure signal goes Solenoid --> WG#1 --> WG#2. As for the -3 vs. -4 issue, I made sure I ran the -4 line to the bottom of the gate because I would rather maintain the ability to open the gate if the -3 line were going to compromise the signal.

edit - saw your question about the vent. Here is how I have the solenoid connected:

Top left port : bottom port on wastegate
Top right port : top port on wastegate
Bottom left port : signal line from boost pipe
Bottom right port : vent

The wastegates have several "bottom" ports and several "top" ports and all of these ports are obviously internally connected. It's probably not ideal, but like I said above, when you consider all of the factors that influence the wastegate opening it's not a deal breaker. :wave:

Is the suspension loaded in that picture or is the car on jackstands? Is that a -12 line? I don't love those hard radius 90 fittings for an oil return, but if the line is big enough it really shouldn't matter...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks ^ I'm gonna try connecting the wastegates in series like you have done.... see if I like the response etc and go from there.

re: oil drain - yeah I don't like that hard 90 either, but it was the only fitting that would "fit" there. It's a -10.... -12 is too large to fit in between the axle and block.

After staring at it for a bit I decided to go this route - the flow should be adequate this way:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

attempting to pretend to know what I'm doing with a tube bender! :laugh:


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

oil return looks much better too!


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

24vGTiVR6 said:


>


when i first seen this i thought i was looking at the hottest drive shaft in the world! 



Looking good, I am loving the hard lines 

Jase.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

tapped the t-stat housing like DarksideGTI has done - 1/2" NPT to -10AN










heater core bypass










and cosmetically speaking I wanna hear some opinions on the valve cover & intake manifold paint - having trouble deciding which way to go....

both gloss black? (clear coat will keep the parts cleaner, longer - this is what's shown in the photo below)
both matte black? (no clear coat, which means the parts will be harder to keep clean - but I kinda like the minimalistic "matte" look)
intake manifold gloss black or matte black with a polished valve cover (which is kind-of overdone really.....)?
matte black intake manifold with exterior colour paint-matched valve cover (in Porsche Macadamia Metallic)?


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

You can accomplish the "matte" look and still use clear. Just use a nice coating of the matte black base and 2 light coats of satin clear. It will be a dull shine, so resides a lot of the matte look until you get it under artificial light, then it will start to shine a little. Just my thoughts.....I have done that a lot.

But my personal favorite is not mentioned.......color match the valve cover and strip the intake manifold. Use a scotch brite pad or emory cloth to scratch it and make it appear brushed, then clear over the raw brushed look with satin clear. Have done that to a couple VR short runners and I personally love the look of brushed, and usually people don't do it, just polish or chrome instead.
J. Hines


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

nice, I like that ^^


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

*Rothe intake manifold 24v R32*

Rothe Motorsport (straight from Germany) - cast aluminum intake manifold!!! for the 24v VR6 and R32 

they can be found only @ *INA Engineering* (if you want one get on the horn quick, I believe they may have a couple left.....)

- complete with custom gaskets, throttle body adapter w/ ports, 80mm HEMI throttle body, 1.8T AIT sensor - the complete package! thanks Issam!

:thumbup::thumbup::beer::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Rothe Motorsport (straight from Germany) - cast aluminum intake manifold!!! for the 24v VR6 and R32
> 
> they can be found only @ *INA Engineering* (if you want one get on the horn quick, I believe they may have a couple left.....)
> 
> ...



ok...i want that...but for a 12v....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

With the new rothe manifold + heater core bypass I had to change my rad filler situation. (Welded some aluminum -AN fittings onto an inline filler.)











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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

do you have anything coming off the small nipple on the upper rad hose? I didn't at first and was getting air bubbles trapped there.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> do you have anything coming off the small nipple on the upper rad hose? I didn't at first and was getting air bubbles trapped there.


are you talking about the OE plastic coupler with the nipple for the throttle body (or does it connect to the head.... can't remember) that was originally at that upper rad hose? I removed that coupler a long time ago, haven't had an issue. Originally I put a 1.5" temp sensor adapter pipe there, but I moved the sensor to the crack pipe now.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

mine has this nipple on the upper hose that I believe was connected to the overflow tank.









I was getting air trapped up in there so I ran a hose to my filler. I had to drill/tap the filler neck to accept the hose.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^ ah yea I remember that one. I can see how that could be a problem.

busy at work so VRT progress is slow. 

rothe intake and new i/c pipes are next on the list

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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> rothe intake and new i/c pipes are next on the list


Gonna get rid of the C2/HEP one? I know a good home for it


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

PM me 


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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

Great build, congrats 24vGTiVR6 :thumbup:

I have been collecting parts for very similar setup, I am glad that I saw your project. 

Your project will give me lots of ideas.

This is my setup at the moment;

JDL Manifold T4 Divided with Dual MVS - Coated
62mm Turbo
0 Mile Long block 3.2 24V BDB Engine with Compression Plate 9:1 CR
Rothe Motorsports Setup From INA Engineering (Issam)
And so on…

I am sorry to hear that you have run into some issue with that dog bone causing an engine failure.

034 Customer Service SUCKS :thumbdown:

I recommend you to change the oil cooler and oil pump after spun the bearings.

I bet there are shredded metal pieces inside the oil cooler.

I am going to do AC Delete as well and VW recommends different belt for AC Delete, because you definitely need a shorter belt.

For the AC & PS Delete, there is a belt from NAPA that would work for you.

*VR6 with AC & PS On - Has Grooves Both Side - 1360mm Long # 021 145 933 H
*









*VR6 with AC Delete – Has Grooves on Inside - 1290mm Long # 021 145 933 C
*









*VR6 with AC & PS Delete – Has Grooves on Inside - 1104.90mm (43.50”) Long – NAPA # 6PK1105
*









BTW I have tons of questions for you :laugh:

Are you happy with 034 Fuel Rail, I got the same fuel rail as well.

I have seen that you run in to leak issues?

What spark plugs do you use with .028 Gap?

What RPM do you see the full boost on 6466?

I have been thinking how would I route my IC Pipes, so that will be the most interesting part of your project for me.

I always use Vibrant for fabricating parts.

Even thou Vibrant Aluminum Pipings are way better than most of chinese crap on the market, there is a thicker Aluminum Piping.

Vibrant Aluminum Pipes - 1.5mm

JDL Aluminum Pipes - Approximately ~ 2.3mm

I just found out about this asking to [email protected] JDL.

I hope the owner of Red Corrado do not get piss at me, but I do not like how he routes the IC Piping and Intake Piping.

I am looking forward you to do something way different like you did on that 3.5" downpipe.

Sorry about the long post :wave:


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

> I hope the owner of Red Corrado do not get piss at me, but I do not like how he routes the IC Piping and Intake Piping.
> 
> I am looking forward you to do something way different like you did on that 3.5" downpipe.
> 
> Sorry about the long post :wave:


Not mad at all, im happy with the way they turned out...but if you have a better idea im always open to suggestions!


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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

leebro61 said:


> Not mad at all, im happy with the way they turned out...but if you have a better idea im always open to suggestions!


Thanks for not misunderstanding me, I appreciate that. 

I bet it works great.

I just do not like the idea of Intake System being so short.

It seems like sucking hot air around there.

I would rather extend the intake pipe as much as I can, maybe extend it until the headlight to have cooler air.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Turkbo said:


> I recommend you to change the oil cooler and oil pump after spun the bearings.


put them both through the parts washer as they were both brand new, spent a lot of time flushing them out - hopefully I got everything. Absolutely nothing came out of the oil cooler (filter did a good job) but a bunch of shavings came out of the pump. Maybe I _should_ get a new pump on second thought.... sigh....



Turkbo said:


> For the AC & PS Delete, there is a belt from NAPA that would work for you.
> *VR6 with AC & PS On - Has Grooves Both Side - 1360mm Long # 021 145 933 H
> VR6 with AC Delete – Has Grooves on Inside - 1290mm Long # 021 145 933 C
> 
> ...


*

nice info :thumbup:



Turkbo said:



Are you happy with 034 Fuel Rail, I got the same fuel rail as well.
I have seen that you run in to leak issues?

Click to expand...

034 rail is fine.... when using Siemens 870cc I had to source a slightly thicker top o-ring, and I had to space out the rail with a single #10 (I think) washer under each bolt. 

Only minor issue with the rothe intake - it touches the bottom of the fuel rail on the driver's side (but it bolts up fine). **keep in mind I did a test fit without gaskets etc so there may be more horizontal space available there and this may not be an issue at all.**



Turkbo said:



What spark plugs do you use with .028 Gap?

Click to expand...

NGK BKR7E

this year more boost = BKR7EIX @ tighter gap



Turkbo said:



What RPM do you see the full boost on 6466?

Click to expand...

late 2000's, early 3000's. if I had to put a number on it I'd say ~3100 ish
hard to actually know a concrete # when you're hanging on for dear life at that point (i.e. trying to keep straight).... but yeah 

update:
my two side projects are coming along nicely.
Q5 front end transplant is almost done.... just gotta sort out an airbag sensor....
waiting on parts for the mini transmission rebuild... MINI'S ARE A PAIN IN THE A** TO WORK ON OMG! :bs:

this means VRT progress should be happening soon :laugh:

































*


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

Turkbo said:


> Thanks for not misunderstanding me, I appreciate that.
> 
> I bet it works great.
> 
> ...


Sure, colder air would be better. I've thought about this several times and it's just not worth the effort to chase this. I would have to change several components in my setup that are helping me much more than the ~cold air inlet would benefit me. If you want to discuss further feel free to PM me and I will elaborate.

Rich, impressive progress as usual. I think the new intake manifold looks great. I'm excited to see how the setup responds when it's all back together :thumbup:


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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

First of all, thanks for taking your time to explain everything very detailed.

I appreciate that. :thumbup:



24vGTiVR6 said:


> put them both through the parts washer as they were both brand new, spent a lot of time flushing them out - hopefully I got everything. Absolutely nothing came out of the oil cooler (filter did a good job) but a bunch of shavings came out of the pump. Maybe I _should_ get a new pump on second thought.... sigh....


After what you have spent on whole project, oil cooler and pump are not an expensive parts to re-purchase.

IMO I would not leave it to a chance.

I have break lots of engines in the past, because of my lack of care :laugh:



24vGTiVR6 said:


> 034 rail is fine.... when using Siemens 870cc I had to source a slightly thicker top o-ring, and I had to space out the rail with a single #10 (I think) washer under each bolt.
> 
> Only minor issue with the rothe intake - it touches the bottom of the fuel rail on the driver's side (but it bolts up fine). **keep in mind I did a test fit without gaskets etc so there may be more horizontal space available there and this may not be an issue at all.**


I will be using Injector Dynamics ID1000 with the 034 Fuel Rail and Dual 044 IE Surge Tank Setup.

I had issue with 034 Fuel Rail not fitting on 1.8T SEM Intake Manifold on old project, so I had to change it to SEM Fuel Rail.

I hope not to have the same issue, 034 parts do not seem to have %100 fitment! :thumbdown:



24vGTiVR6 said:


> NGK BKR7E
> 
> this year more boost = BKR7EIX @ tighter gap


:thumbup:



24vGTiVR6 said:


> late 2000's, early 3000's. if I had to put a number on it I'd say ~3100 ish
> hard to actually know a concrete # when you're hanging on for dear life at that point (i.e. trying to keep straight).... but yeah


To be honest, I can't decide what turbo to run at the moment. 

I am going towards to Bullseye Batmowheel Turbos, but 6466's results also amazes me with the Japanese Cars.

I am thinking of using Bullseye Batmowheel S362 Turbo with 68mm Turbine Wheel T4 TS .91 A/R

When I talked to Bill Devine from Bullseye, he told me that full boost would be around 3000ish RPM's on VR6.

6466 is little bigger turbo than what I am thinking of using and the full boost response is still where I am looking for.

If I do not remember wrong, your displacement was 2.9, which we will have almost 300cc differences on the displacement as well.

I am glad that you experienced 6466, so I can make comparison. Cheers for that! :beer:

Now I am definitely between S362 vs 6466.

More questions are coming 

What's the highest RPM you go up to?

Did you ever dyno the car?

If yes, where did you see the power loss as RPM range?

What would be your recommendation for highest RPM on stock engine turbo VR6?


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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

leebro61 said:


> Sure, colder air would be better. I've thought about this several times and it's just not worth the effort to chase this. I would have to change several components in my setup that are helping me much more than the ~cold air inlet would benefit me. If you want to discuss further feel free to PM me and I will elaborate.
> 
> Rich, impressive progress as usual. I think the new intake manifold looks great. I'm excited to see how the setup responds when it's all back together :thumbup:


I guess it's just me, I am little bit Anal with my projects 

Anyways, Rado looks good, keep up with the good work. :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Turkbo said:


> What's the highest RPM you go up to?


I personally never went over 7k ish.



Turkbo said:


> Did you ever dyno the car?














Turkbo said:


> What would be your recommendation for highest RPM on stock engine turbo VR6?


not sure what the stock "limits" are, but I usually did 6500-ish on my old turbo setup with the ~stock motor (ARP head studs and 9:1 spacer).


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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> I believe the rev limit was set to ~7900. I personally never went over 7k ish. But then again on the street @ 7k you kinda run outta room fast. (need more track time)


I will be looking at your track time experience, please share them with us.



24vGTiVR6 said:


> yep, but it was a mobile dyno done outside at a show and the operator stopped short @ 5000 (I instructed him to go to 7), therefore I take that dyno sheet with a grain of salt. I'll get a dynojet reading sometime in the summer this year.


Those are very good numbers to stop @ 5000ish RPM and being on Dyno Dynamics. :thumbup:

I would rather dyno my car on Dyno Dynamics or Mustang Dyno, not fan of Dyno Jet.

Was this dyno results with your current setup?



24vGTiVR6 said:


> not sure what the stock "limits" are, but I consistently hit 6500-ish on my old turbo setup with the ~stock motor (ARP head studs and 9:1 spacer). Didn't have an issue driving hard like that for ~2 years or so.


Thanks for the info.

I will be running C2 Motorsports 9:1 CR Spacer with ARP Head Studs.

The kit did not come with Lengthened Timing Chain, but I have seen HPA has one in their kit.

Did you use Lengthened Timing Chain, when you use Spacer?

I was thinking maybe HPA use Lengthened Timing Chain, because they lower the compression to 7:1, so their plate is very thick.

I might be wrong, thou.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

9:1 - original length chain


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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> 9:1 - original length chain


Thank you.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

remember the big ugly holes I cut in my carbon hood? I fix, I fix. (Just gotta paint someday when I have time......)










2.75" aluminum just came in for the intercooler pipes










I know, I know.... progress is really slow lately. Snow storms + collision shop = busy. Just gotta finish this POS (Mini) and I'll get back to the VRT. soontimes.


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

Haha. I really like Mini Coopers. Are they so bad to work on ?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I dislike them very strongly. 

I'd rather sit through an entire hour of Dr. Phil than work on another Mini. :facepalm:

I get in there to fix one thing, and I find 39842934872934823 other things that need to be fixed. grr.









super fun to drive, though.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> I dislike them very strongly.
> 
> I'd rather sit through an entire hour of Dr. Phil than work on another Mini. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


Changed a battery cable yet? 
I would raise you on Dr.Phil and nomb on my own hand than do that job again.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Ouch yeah I can see how that would be a royal PITA with the motor in. It's like the Mini engineers didn't think of the people who get stuck servicing these damn things. 

Well good news is the mini transmission is rebuilt and ready to go. Just gotta paint the body a little bit and that'll be the last time I do anything mechanically on a mini thank-you-very-much.

Got an I/c pipe tacked up:



















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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

BEAUTIFUL BEAUTIFUL build man! keep up the great work!ic:ic:ic::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

R32 cluster swap, podi gauge pod with dual VDO gauge (oil pressure + temp). Interior / wiring is done! Just waiting on a few parts from INA and I can start-er-up!











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## Yareka (Mar 5, 2002)

Looking forward to the crank up:thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Me too lol! ^^ BELIEVE ME THIS. 

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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

While I'm waiting on the last few parts I need I'll finish the false floor v2.0 (never was 100% happy with the old one):











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## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

i love this build!


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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

^ couldn't agree more!!! amazing job bro can wait to hear it start up!!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Still waiting on a throttle body and valve cover!!!  

In the meantime.....




















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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Laminate, tile or tongue and groove on top?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Laminate, tile or tongue and groove on top?


none of the above^. Admittedly the rear seat delete was always for my dog and hauling sh*t, no one ever sits back there and my dog loves the space to lay down etc. To that end, I found some rubber product with grooves in it - gonna try that. (Grooves for traction and dirt collection, rubber for easy clean up or replacement, and no worries about paws / claws etc.)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

False floor 2.0 done. 










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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Question: if I add one more Bosch 044 pump (2x total) can I stick with my -6AN size line? or should I go -8?


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## .:R28 (Apr 3, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Question: if I add one more Bosch 044 pump (2x total) can I stick with my -6AN size line? or should I go -8?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Jeff recommends me to run -8AN feed line while keeping the others -6AN for my power goal. btw I have IE dual 044's setup.

Looks good man, can't wait to see this car up and running eace:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks!^ just something I'm planning on in the future. (Good info to have considering the source.)

Progress:











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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Question: if I add one more Bosch 044 pump (2x total) can I stick with my -6AN size line? or should I go -8?


You really do not need to go with -8AN lines.

I have asked the same questions to Injector Dynamics owner Tony Palo and he had told me that -6AN line is more than sufficient for Dual 044 Setup.


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## vr-vagman (May 15, 2010)

Turkbo said:


> You really do not need to go with -8AN lines.
> 
> I have asked the same questions to Injector Dynamics owner Tony Palo and he had told me that -6AN line is more than sufficient for Dual 044 Setup.


Strange
Have you ever checked the actual ID of an AN6 hose end/fitting? I have. It is less than 6mm. For AN8 it is less than 9mm. Considering 3-4 hose end fittings between the pump and the fuel rail, about 3+ meters fuel line and few line bends, not to mention the use of E85 as a fuel... 6AN looks really too small and restrictive to me even for one 044 pump. Do some math based on fuel injector flow at max power and fuel flow through 5.5mm orifice at 3bar + some % more for reserve and due to the mentioned flow losses.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

well I've seen dual 044 surge tanks with -6, -8, and -10 lines - with EFI. -8 seems to be the most common, with -6 used occasionally as well. Case in point: IE dual surge tank outlet manifold comes with -6 or -8 fittings. While other dual tanks come with only -8....(example: radium engineering dual pump reservoir setup)

^thats why I ask the question.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

update:

- new rubbers @ Bridgestone GeForce Sport Comp-2
- sorted out / organized the wiring and grounds in the rain tray
- MKV valve cover - welded -10 bung in for PCV, tapped some holes for brackets with M6x1.0, & powder coated flat black
- added wiring to enable headlight fog lamps and auto levelling
- made an aluminum bracket for the ProMaf and fuel return hard line (not done yet)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

alright - final fittings are on the intake.... I had to mess around with different fittings to consider the throttle body and fuel rail fitment, also had some hard lines that I had to maneuver around.

AEM tru-boost MAP sensor
1.8T IAT sensor
1/4NPT to -6AN 45 degree fitting (for brake booster)
then a directly connected -4 "tee" (hidden underneath the intake) to feed the DV and FPR










made some custom gaskets for a phenolic spacer sandwich:










I went to go torque up the bolts to install the intake manifold - but one bolt wouldn't hold torque. I suspect one of the threads right at the engagement point is stripped. I cleaned it out with a tap, to no avail. Rather than drill it out and heli-coil it (prefer not to do that) I'm gonna try slightly longer bolts..... luckily I found M7 bolts @ McMaster Carr. Stock bolts are 40mm length, I grabbed 45 and 50mm to try out. 

:banghead:


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## MK3.OT (May 4, 2010)

That floor looks clean.


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## Turkbo (Aug 20, 2008)

vr-vagman said:


> Strange
> Have you ever checked the actual ID of an AN6 hose end/fitting? I have. It is less than 6mm. For AN8 it is less than 9mm. Considering 3-4 hose end fittings between the pump and the fuel rail, about 3+ meters fuel line and few line bends, not to mention the use of E85 as a fuel... 6AN looks really too small and restrictive to me even for one 044 pump. Do some math based on fuel injector flow at max power and fuel flow through 5.5mm orifice at 3bar + some % more for reserve and due to the mentioned flow losses.


I believe that Injector Dynamics has more investment and R&D on fuel injection subject.

This means I would rather to do what they say to me, then the rumors in the forums.

I can understand that you do not want to believe me, then I suggest you to give T1 Race Development a call and discuss about this topic with Tony Palo or email him.

He can give you a better scientific explanation about this subject.

If he says its more than sufficient, then it will be good enough for my setup which is pretty similar to 24vGTiVR6

I also bet that T1 Race Development/Injector Dynamics uses Dual 044 setup more than any other shop around the world, so I value their experiences.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Ill wait for the corresponding F&F jokes but......

Why not use the buttons on that wheel for some form of staged boost control?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm actually way ahead of you..... but I'm keeping that part close to the chest. It's harder than you might think..... there's a module involved among other things. Not sure if it's 100% possible yet, still looking into it.

Right now my main focus is getting it running again. Afterwards I'll screw around with it some more. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Could probably do it with with some transistor circuits and an Arduino


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

Still watcvhing your thread/ build with lot of attention !

how did you managed the coolant warning light on the cluster???
did you resistorized after coolant bottle delete???
for the fans, you kept the oem fan module, or you gone with " passive " relays / sensors like me? 

this warning is pi"""g me out since 2 years I want to get rid of it ...


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Milkidou said:


> Still watcvhing your thread/ build with lot of attention !
> 
> how did you managed the coolant warning light on the cluster???
> did you resistorized after coolant bottle delete???
> ...


I'm not sure about him, but on my car I just connected the two wires that went to the old coolant ball. You just need to complete the circuit and the warning will not come on.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

DarkSideGTI said:


> I'm not sure about him, but on my car I just connected the two wires that went to the old coolant ball. You just need to complete the circuit and the warning will not come on.


that's exactly what I did.

for the fans I ditched the oem module - went with a flex-a-lite controller + sensor. also wired in a bypass switch to turn it on when I want.


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

that's curious, i did it ( about the coolant level sensor ) but the warning still there, though that my fan module delete was responsible of this persistent message... 

so you completely removed it and no message came???

have to balance my front wheels after work ( yeah porkas on !!! ) will test to wire it at the same time to double check my setup...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Milkidou said:


> that's curious, i did it ( about the coolant level sensor ) but the warning still there, though that my fan module delete was responsible of this persistent message...
> 
> so you completely removed it and no message came???


yeah, I can't remember if I had to change anything in VAG-COM though. That might be a possibility.

does anyone want to play name that connector? For the life of me I can't remember what it's for. Looks important though.... but somehow I can't see where it belongs.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

headlight?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

nope


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

Looks like the engine harness body harness interface, basically what runs the colored connectors in the rain tray


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

My money is on fan controller.

Based on your comment about standalone fan controls and this pin count of the below pic fan controller plug fits best.









What are the wire colors?


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

do you have the wiring of this module ???


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Waiting patiently for the fire up.
We have some similar touches, so waiting to see your results.
Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Jo|\| said:


> My money is on fan controller.
> 
> Based on your comment about standalone fan controls and this pin count of the below pic fan controller plug fits best.


u da man :thumbup:
I owe u a :beer:


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## MK3.OT (May 4, 2010)

It's getting closer! I need to go back through this and review the lines. Starting from scratch though, so I can run E-85, I am probably going to go with the larger size. I just got the ID injectors from Tony.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

45mm bolts did the trick :thumbup:




















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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)




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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

So clean  car looks great man. Looking forward to getting both cars together sometime this summer 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

pubahs said:


> Looking forward to getting both cars together sometime this summer


hell yes dude! I've gotta see your MK3 in person.


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

nice shape ! 
cold air piping would have been better with 3" pipes, you have enough room for it !

like the way you do things !


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks^
3" would be too large to be ~optimal, even 2.75" is admittedly too large below ~18 psi boost

welding side note:
on the advice of a welder down the street I picked up a pack of 2% lanthanated tungsten..... MAN what a difference on aluminum. I'm still a tig nub, but slowly I'm learning the tricks of the trade  Gonna finish welding up the post i/c pipe.... I'll post that after.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

My charge piping is 3" and I wish it was 2.5" :thumbup:


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## MK3.OT (May 4, 2010)

dam that bay is clean. Physically its not dirty, its clean. :beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Got so much done this weekend. :thumbup:


















I liberated this RS5 oil cooler vent from the recycling bin. We were fixing one a while back and had to replace the fender liner.... as soon as I saw it I got the idear. It was a bit damaged but I made it work. 


















V3.0


























Cross your fingers for me. 


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## PapioGXL (Jun 3, 2008)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> welding side note:
> on the advice of a welder down the street I picked up a pack of 2% lanthanated tungsten..... MAN what a difference on aluminum. I'm still a tig nub, but slowly I'm learning the tricks of the trade  Gonna finish welding up the post i/c pipe.... I'll post that after.


I asked for 2% at the the shop, got home and realized it was 1.5%. It still works well, but it definitely doesn't like the heat of welding thick aluminum on 50/50 or higher balance.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^ sorry missed that. The thickest aluminum I weld around here has to be intercooler pipe or intakes, which is usually around 0.065-0.085". Otherwise I'm welding alum door panels or hoods which are pretty thin. So not too sure what 2% will do with higher heat / thicker material. Seems to work well between 35 -65 amps with aluminum.

Was going through my pre-start checks and vag-com found these..... help!?

FYI checked outside air temp sensor.... seems fine. So did I slice or short a bunch of wires somewhere? does anyone know if these codes are on the same spot together on the harness?

￼-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
￼Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V02
￼9 Faults Found:
00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17)
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
01128 - Immobilizer Pickup Coil (D2)
35-00 - -
01176 - Key
07-00 - Signal too Low
01177 - Engine Control Unit
64-10 - Not Currently Testable - Intermittent
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications
01336 - Data Bus for Comfort System
80-00 - Single-Wire Operation
49-00 - No Communications
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
￼Component: Gateway KCAN
6 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications
01336 - Data Bus for Comfort System
80-00 - Single-Wire Operation
49-00 - No Communications
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
49-00 - No Communications
￼-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
￼Component: 8B Komfortgerát HLO 003
￼1 Fault Found:
￼01336 - Data Bus for Comfort System
￼80-00 - Single-Wire Operation
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

check your grounds?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

fuggin electrical. yet again. I have the worst luck with this crap.

grounds I suspect, yes. I think I know where some wires got pulled now, after a few hours of searching. This is not gonna be fun, it's in the tightest of tightest spots, naturally.

Just for anyone that's looking around for VRT PRO-MAF wire colors / installation I'll jot this down now. All the other pro-maf instructions I found on the net pointed to pin #'s only, not wire colours (for MK4 anyway). Since I didn't have the connector around I had to do some hunting. Reading electrical diagrams is not my forte, so if someone knows 100% if this is correct or not please say yay or nay.

MK4 24v VR6

CAR side of MAF

Pin 1 = Violet / Green = IAT signal from ECU
Pin 2 = Blue / Yellow = +12v
Pin 3 = Green = Ground / signal -
Pin 4 = Red / Violet = not used in PRO-MAF installation (anyone know it's purpose though? goes to pin #53 ECM)
Pin 5 = Black = signal +

Pro-MAF
Pin A = Red = +12v
Pin B = Black = Ground
Pin C = Tan = Signal -
Pin D = Blue = Signal +

IAT sensor
Pin 1 = Ground
Pin 2 = IAT signal from ECU

Installation (also according to wire colours in case you don't have the connector on):

(PIN#) PRO-MAF = CAR SIDE (PIN#)

(A) Red = Blue / Yellow (2)
(B) Black = Green (3)
(C) Tan = Green (3)
(D) Blue = Black (5)

(PIN#) IAT SENSOR = CAR SIDE (PIN#)

(1) = Green (3)
(2) = Violet / Green (1)


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Post a full auto scan before you remove anything.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

that is a full auto - scan......

it can't even read the ECU.

edit: update- the outside air temp sensor must be tied in with a bunch of other things.... when I replaced it with one found in another MK4 that cleared up a few codes. Now my auto-scan looks like this:

￼Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
￼Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
￼76
￼
VIN: - Mileage: 221160km/137422miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Coding: 0019970
Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
VCID: 3467D6BD54CD9EBE4FF-5140
No fault code found.
￼-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
￼Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
￼Part No: 1J0 920 927
￼Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V02
￼Coding: 00334
￼Shop #: WSC 93361
￼VCID: E8DFF2CD8885AA5EB37-5122
￼- VWZ7Z0C7096254
￼4 Faults Found:
￼01314 - Engine Control Module
￼49-00 - No Communications
￼01316 - ABS Control Module
￼01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications
￼01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
￼49-00 - No Communications
￼￼49-00 - No Communications
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
￼VCDS
￼Self-Diagnosis Log
￼Thursday,22,May,2014,19:09:50:63217
￼
VIN: - License Plate:
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Page 2
￼￼Part No: 6N0 909 901
￼Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
￼Coding: 00006
￼Shop #: WSC 00000
￼VCID: F0EF9AADB055629EEB7-5122
5 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01316 - ABS Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)
49-00 - No Communications
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications
00778 - Steering Angle Sensor (G85)
49-00 - No Communications
￼-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
￼Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
￼Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
￼Component: 8B Komfortgerát HLO 003
￼Coding: 00064
￼Shop #: WSC 00000
￼VCID: 377DE1B115BB75A66AD-4B02
￼Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
￼Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0202
￼Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
￼Component: 8B Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0202
No fault code found.
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

^^ cluster problem maybe? I changed the face and needles but kept the original one in the car......


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

found this after searching a bit in the VAG-COM forums.......

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...No-communication-address-17-amp-19&p=85037882

sure enough somehow the green connector wasn't plugged in all the way. Turns out my electrical woes were a combination of a sensor dying at the perfect time (to throw me off that extra little bit) and not having the plug all the way seated in the cluster.

Coulda been worse, but now I gotta re wrap this harness and put everything back together. 

edit: started it up, I've got low vacuum and a flashing battery light. did a smoke test, everything is sealed up.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Did you have your throttle flap open during the smoke test at the intake end?
Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^I don't think that matters. I'm pumping the smoke in via the INA throttle body adapter (has water / meth port). It's getting around the other end to the turbo etc. 

this is how I went about it:






FYI- when the needle is bouncing like that on the smoke tester everything is completely sealed up.

Also I was wrong about the oil pressure switch. A resistor doesn't work, as after 1500 rpm or so the warning for low oil still pops up. I grounded it again just to see how it would react when the engine was running, and that disabled the warning. It beeps at me when I start it up briefly but then goes away. My oil pressure gauge and aftermarket warning light / buzzer confirm good pressure.

The battery light is flashing on the dash randomly, and when I give it a little gas the alternator workshop warning appears. Short maybe?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

can't get the battery light on the dash to stop flashing - it doesn't flash when ignition is on / engine is off - it starts flashing randomly only when the engine is running. It runs pretty good but you can tell the coils aren't getting full power when the light flashes (i.e. when the short occurs) as it hesitates a tad. Tested the battery, tested the alternator, tested voltage drop between everything, made new cables & ran them as short as possible, checked all fuses, VAG-COM scan show ZERO errors whatsoever. This one is really draining the wind from my sails here. I'm soooooo frikkin close.

Does anyone know a method to determine exactly what is shorting out? VAG-COM output tests don't seem to work with the UM flash I have on the ECU.

Otherwise I'm gonna have to pull the harness and inspect all of it...... I can't find anything wrong after a few days of searching. (That's gonna be a bitch especially under the dash.)


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Maybe your voltage rectifier isn't good under load..
Will resorting to an old flash make the issues go away?
Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

doubtful it's the tune / software, as it was functioning perfectly before the rebuild #2. I don't have another ECU to stick in there anyways.

replaced alternator with cheap re-man (that I returned ) - same exact flashing battery behaviour.

screw this crap, I'm pulling the harness.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

still looking for the electrical problem.... can't seem to find something obvious. Engine harness is completely out and unwrapped, no shorts or pulled connectors or anything like that. Working on the main harness now, but again I don't see anything wrong with it so far.



I am finding a few of these crimp connector bundles here n there on the main harness though, none of them seem to have come apart.










so I'm gonna solder these up, tidy the harness a little bit more...... and try again.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

nice video


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

question-

Relay 100 under the hood - ok to disconnect from the fuse panel? http://web.mit.edu/dennis/www/vw/relays.html says it has to do with the SAI.

edit: OK to bypass if SAI not installed


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

for SAI relay, it depends on the tune, on mine, have to keep it, or resistorize it, has it stops the trims if not functionnal ( on my tune again ), i also kept the canister valve ( only the valve not the full canister ) last well over my resistance i've puted before ( 25w 330ohms )

FYI sorted out my coolant warning (grounded it behind the cluster and works well)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Update: found a loose connection @ injector #2, which may explain why I felt the engine miss occasionally when the battery light flashed. Also spent a few hrs last night in front of my TV soldering this harness together properly. The car had a huge EIP Tuning sticker on the hatch..... did they not know how to frikkin solder? Or maybe it was the last owner.... whatever - that's sorted out now.



















Oh and remember the NPT fitting I screwed into the coolant housing? Well it was leaking a tad.... I guess my RTV skills suck. So when something fails, OVERKILL it! I went a little tighter this time, and used this stuff > RTV. 










And then I grabbed some large shrink wrap with adhesive and melted er on. That should do the trick hopefully. 

(Anyone wanna make an aluminum housing for us! Kthnx!)










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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

while the alternator does not charge, engine runs strangely, some missfiring like , idles high etc... ( my custom alternator mount causes me some issues with the belt, she likes flying away on high rpms...)


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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

Lol my last 24v VRT started with EIP tuning stickers everywhere, was a nightmare trying to undo the mess they had made. no wonder why they are out of business! I had to pull the whole motor apart and start from scratch again $$$$$$$$$$$ down the drain!


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

How much was that smoke tester? need to check my R


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Sorry dunno, the shop bought it. I can ask if u want?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

newcreation said:


> How much was that smoke tester? need to check my R


$1,185 - http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CXYFMZY?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&s=automotive

And the manufacturer site, http://www.smokewizard.com/products/smoke-wizard-core/smoke-wizard-package/


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

OK I never want to see a multimeter ever again. ever.

I just finished checking ALL my wires, relays, fuses, grounds, every electric in the whole car top to bottom. That took like 3 solid days. And it's all good.
Started up the car, idles fine, all good.

BUT-

battery light still flashes. if I give it gas, ALTERNATOR WORKSHOP appears.
I tried a replacement alternator, no luck.


:banghead:


anybody have any ideas at all? if the battery light is flashing at me..... I'm inclined to think it's a loose ground. But I checked and cleaned all the grounds, and every single wire. Any help is greatly greatly appreciated..... all I have to do is jump this last hurdle and I can drive the bloody thing.

Battery is an Odyssey dry cell PC1200. Alternator's tested were original Bosch (1 year old) and a new reman unit. Battery holds charge of 12.6V, while the car is running the alternator is charging the battery @ roughly ~14.5V. Could I have damaged the battery using a 12LO trickle charger? The battery is less than 8 months old....


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

I think mine did that for a bit too and I thought it was the belt slipping.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Was it tho? 

Mine is a 1 yr old belt, although the gap from the tensioner to crank is loonngggg. Lots of space to move around and stretch I suppose.....

Anybody have a/c + p/s delete? How long has ur belt lasted?

Oh and I neglected to mention that I made a new alt cable..... 6ga sufficient? (Had to make a longer cable to relocate battery fuse box to rain tray. )

Edit: gonna grab a new belt today and see if there's any difference there. @ $20 seems like an OK place to start. If there's still an issue after that I'm gonna take out the 6ga alternator cable I made and replace it with a 2ga cable, then gonna bypass the battery relay box via a 150amp circuit breaker. Let's see what that does.....

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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

this was 2-3 years ago, I'm trying to remember what I did to fix it. I know I did make a new Alt cable as well. The light only came on when I was getting on it.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

I have AC delete and a longer belt and no issues for the last 3 years with it on, although the car spends a lot of time on bricks.
I do also remember replacing my alternator about 4 years ago for a 110 or 120 amp type, which i believe is an upgrade current wise.
Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I bypassed the relay panel with a 150 amp circuit breaker, stayed with the 6ga wire. Problem solved. Dunno why.... don't care. Going driving!


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

Great job! Can't wait to see more vids opcorn:


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## Milkidou (Oct 27, 2010)

nice !!! glad to hear it!

how does the first feel about the delrin mounts??? at idle ?

my black bfi's already makes me angry about it, that's a daily...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ugh.

mishimoto rad is leaking at the factory connections. gonna cut that stupidness off and weld on AN O-ring fittings instead.

injector #1 is leaking vacuum at the head. this fuel rail is so bloody picky. I have 2 washers underneath one bolt, 1 washer under another 2, & no washer on the last (just to keep from leaking vacuum / boost), thicker o-rings, tried different torques, lubed up o-rings to help them seat.... etc. why is this crap always giving me trouble?

....... otherwise it runs great :thumbup:

and I don't mind the delrin (white) mounts at all. love the stable planted feeling they give..... inspires mucho confidence. @ idle you'd think they were stock mounts. At WOT you get a nice vibrational back rub lol. 

what I do mind is the constant whine of the 044. Need to grab some dynamat or similar soon.

Edit: it wasn't the fuel rail - thicker o-rings were needed on the head side (bottom) of the injectors (siemens 870cc)


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

At least you're not chasing electrical problems anymore (knocks wood) :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

GRN6IX said:


> At least you're not chasing electrical problems anymore (knocks wood) :thumbup:


AMEN to that. :facepalm:


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Maybe worth considering an on/off fuel pump switch in the cabin when cruising...
Makes cruising allot more comfortable.
You do need the OEM pumps still in place though.
Steve



24vGTiVR6 said:


> ugh.
> 
> mishimoto rad is leaking at the factory connections. gonna cut that stupidness off and weld on AN O-ring fittings instead.
> 
> ...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Out driving today..... nothing crazy just cruising around town, and CEL pops up. Yay. 

Pull over, autoscan pulls a brake light switch code and 16398/P0014 - exhaust cam retard set point not reached (over advanced). 

Now if u remember I had this code randomly pop up at me before the rebuild, but it didn't show itself for a while so I thought whatever may have been clogged was washed through. The first set of cams were bad (I assume) and the rings got torn up..... some of that may have gotten into the exhaust adjuster. I tried washing / flushing it out rly well after the rebuild, but I guess something is still in there. 

I'm gonna confirm timing but theres no misfires, idle was a little "off" though. I cleared codes, idle was better, code didn't reappear..... so I drove away. CEL hasn't returned after another couple of hours driving around.

So it looks like I need to grab myself a new exhaust cam adjuster. That rly rly sucks, cuz they aren't cheap.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

That sucks man.
The adjusters are £600 each in the UK.

Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

sTT eV6 said:


> That sucks man.
> The adjusters are £600 each in the UK.
> 
> Steve


yeah taking into account currency exchange etc its far cheaper in the US. still gonna hurt tho for sure.

so apparently AEM's Tru Boost map / psig sensor is crap, or I'm doing it wrong. the gauge read low vacuum (-4 inches sometimes level at zero?), but the engine seemed to be running great. so I attached a mechanical gauge to the same port to grab a different reading. turns out I'm actually pulling some -12 in Hg of vacuum.

gonna send an email off to AEM and see what they say about it.


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## vergessen wir es (May 12, 2010)

I had a DOA tru boost sensor. Proved it to them with electrical output values versus pressure. They took care of it.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

figured out the 034 fuel rail / vacuum leak situation- this is what I did:

- grabbed these o rings for the head side: http://store.katechengines.com/fuel-injector-o-ring-p311.aspx (the original o-rings that came with the siemens deka injectors are slightly too thin)
- lubricate the o-rings, seat them in the head first then plug in the rail (I used light weight SAE oil)
- used a single 3mm thick washer underneath each bolt to space them out slightly (otherwise the rail pushes the injectors in slightly too far, causing a fuel leak)
- torqued bolts to 10Nm


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

vergessen wir es said:


> I had a DOA tru boost sensor. Proved it to them with electrical output values versus pressure. They took care of it.


yeah after a FEW emails back n forth.... I had to prove my point - so I made this:










with the car running:
- tru boost gauge with external sensor selected = values change every time you start the car = -7inHg, -4.5inHg, 0.5inHg, sometimes hovers at zero
- tru boost gauge w/ vacuum hose & interior sensor selected = between -11 / -12 inHg
- mechanical gauge = showed between -11 / -12 inHg the entire time

Clearly something is amiss with the external sensor. AEM is going to replace it or repair it for me :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

The NPT fitting I threaded into the tstat housing kept leaking. So I made this:










WTB aluminum tstat housing with AN ORB connections! Kplzthnx!

Just got this tool and I already love it. Makes checking for coolant leaks easy, and filling without air bubbles even easier. Schwaben coolant evac / fill tool @ ECS. 










Also had to change the other front wheel bearing (changed drivers side last year). I think I have to grab a new brake rotor as well..... I suspect it's slightly warped as I hear a slight metal contact noise when rotating. No improper contact is happening, the rotor is just touching the pads at certain points when spinning. Should be an easy fix. 

Got booked in for some time attack later in the month, I'll post a couple laps on video then it'll be /thread.

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## PNW_VR6 (Feb 28, 2014)

Gotta say this is an awesome build thread man! :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks^^
this thread and build has gone on for far too long.... just waiting a bit until I can switch to synthetic so I can post a conclusion video. (I hate it when build threads don't have an "ending")


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## PNW_VR6 (Feb 28, 2014)

Thats awesome man, I havent really seen anyone run the intake on that side before. Its super inspiring seeing how diligent you are with building your motor, and that magnetic oil plug is genious. Like I said ive been around cars my whole life, Ive done just your basic stuff as far as suspension/brakes/exhaust etc. But Ive never really dug into a motor or learned how it all comes together. Its awesome having practically all the info I need right here even if im not going turbo....yet.. :thumbup::beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Good stuff^ - I hope this helps a lot of people out as so many on the tex have helped me reach my goal..... erhm twice *cough*. Karmapointsftw. 

Got some goodies in the mail today from Issam @ INA Engineerinng! Billet AN heater core adapters .











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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Finally had 5 seconds free to tear myself away from work  damn it was busy for a while....

I promised a track vid so here it is. Gonna grab a final dyno sheet hopefully this month and that'll end the thread off, for real this time 

btw, HAWK HP+ pads - what a frikkin disappointment :facepalm:


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

must feel good to finally drive it after all the work. i hate when my vrt breaks down, but it puts a smile on my face every time i get to smash some gears:thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^^ it _did_ feel good..... but now it isn't running again.

I hit a pretty good dip in the road and scratched my skid plate. I shrugged it off - "that hurt, but that's what skid plates are for!" But - almost immediately after the dip in the road / scrape noise my oil pressure warning light illuminated the gauge dropped to zero, so I shut the car off. (Here we go again.....)

So I towed it back to the garage and put it up on jackstands. I was pissed off so I left it there for the day / night. Today I looked underneath the car and saw no oil leaks of any sort (at the scene nothing was leaking either). Checked the oil level in the pan, it's at the proper level. Started it up for about 5 seconds and heard a terrible rattling - so I turned it off (gauges still read zero oil pressure). The rattling was NOT there when I shut it off originally at the "scene".

Pulled the oil pan, oil pump, and oil pump drive shaft. All seem to be undamaged. (thought it may have been the drive shaft originally but I was wrong)

Then I pulled the valve cover, rotated the crank a few times, found TDC, checked timing - which also looks good. When I crank by hand I can hear the pistons compressing air etc very well and there doesn't seem to be any resistance (except when rotating right around the top of the stroke). So - I don't think I fried the bottom end like I did last time...... my new warning system seems to have done the trick.

just in case you forgot - I run a MK5 R32 oil pump with INA steel baffled pan.

So what could it be?


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> just in case you forgot - I run a MK5 R32 oil pump with INA steel baffled pan.
> 
> So what could it be?


did the pick up get knocked loose maybe? or possibly the bolt that holds the pump gear onto the pump?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

fouckhest said:


> did the pick up get knocked loose maybe? or possibly the bolt that holds the pump gear onto the pump?


Everything was tight when I removed it (loctite ftw)
I took apart the oil pump and all looks normal.
No shavings or other foreign debris in the oil (strained it) or in the bottom of the pan. Even the magnetic drain plug was pretty much clean.

:banghead:

Since I can't see anything obvious in the oil system I'm gonna clean everything up, re-install, and crank the motor over a few times without fuel. Gonna see if any oil is actually pumping out of the filter housing (without a filter installed). If anyone has any ideas in the meantime I'd love to hear them!


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Man was about to congratulate you for it being up and running.  Well ill say a prayer for you and that everything will be fine. :beer:


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

Hi mate. 

looks like you have made a lot of progress since i last took a look. 

what is the new cam cover you are using? 

hope you get the latest niggle sorted soonest!

Jason.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks guys^

Jason- MKV R32 valve cover. I needed the PCV to be on the opposite side. This fit perfectly. Gotta love Audi / VW swap-ability! How's your VRT coming along?

So - definitely the oil squirters came loose. By main caps 5 and 1. Smoke test showed smoke is pouring out directly where it should be sealed. (The squirters should only open around 2 bar - I was nowhere near that during testing - in fact I couldn't get more than 5lbs of pressure cuz it was leaking so badly). The rest of the oil system seems to be intact and sealed up. 

So, motor is already out - gonna flip it around, take the crank out, tap in some new squirters, call it a day. I mean it's not that simple / easy lol but it could be worse. 

As always, tear downs = upgrades. I'll be changing a few weak points I found while @ the track.

1) Removing check valve from block breather. Gonna try to install a baffle into the block and run a direct hard line. (At the track my catch can filled up completely after 3-4 laps - I need better baffling at the block)

2) Gonna hook up a remote rad fill setup. The bay will be less "clean" but will definitely be more functional with overflow and volume etc. 

3) Swapping in new timing chains. I still get the cam adjuster code (even after spending the $ for a new adjuster!) so either I put one or both chains back in the reverse direction, or a chain is stretched already to perhaps throw the code. Either way, chains are getting swapped out. Let's see if that clears it up. 

d) re-locating the oil cooler to the front between the rad / intercooler - instead of at the frame rail. The hose fittings hang way too low for comfort, and they don't have protection from the skid plate. I found road rash on the aluminum hose ends- that's a no go for me. Gonna re-route to make it safer for the motor.



So after reading all my random issues.... I'm wondering..... how many of you out there still want a VRT? Ahahahaha


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Thanks guys^
> 
> Jason- MKV R32 valve cover. I needed the PCV to be on the opposite side. This fit perfectly. Gotta love Audi / VW swap-ability! How's your VRT coming along?
> 
> ...


Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks Steve- I think I'm gonna go with a vacuum pump for the crankcase evac, and the int sprocket is brand new.

Did find something interesting though-



















That's a new one for me. Wtf could cause that guide bolt to shear off like that? I'm lucky it didn't fall into the chains etc during WOT.....

This tear down may be a blessing in disguise. Would that damage be enough to trip the cam adjuster code?




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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

Jesus how does that even happen!? Never have I seen a guide bolt snap like that! My VRT has stretched a few sets of chains but never snapped any bolts lol. Was it at all cross threaded? 


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

No idea man.... never seen that before. Wasn't cross threaded..... that's gonna be a biotch to get out though. 

Also the lower chain tensioner won't reset, plus it was hella hella tight on the chain. Like way more than normal. Dunno what's up with that either. 


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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

Get your self a good set of easy outs. They have saved my butt on everything from valve cover bolts that snapped in the head and also snapped head studs haha. Maybe bad tensioner caused too much stress on the guide, plus lots of HP


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Oh I have those, don't worry. Still gonna be a bitch! I loc-tite'd everything 











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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

Ooooh ya loc-tight is always, always a good time!! At least you didn't do what I did... My first VRT build ended in a blown turbo on its first track run due to a magic pinched oil feed line and I also stretched the chains haha good times! 


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

So yeah- it was the squirters. 3 of them came out with a magnet (easily) and the other 3 stayed put. 

It's fixed now, short block is back together. But - as always - I take tear downs as an opportunity to learn / change / upgrade! Stay tuned...... 


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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

I'm in for more upgrades!!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

All bearing surfaces etc look fantastic.... glad to see that.



















For reference I measured the rod bolts before installation with a mic, and virtually no deformation has occurred since the original installation. So, I went ahead and re-used them.










new "block breather" idea, since I couldn't install an internal baffle at the block. Vibrant part #11191. Took the "check valve" out (if you can call it that, its just a rubber flapper) - and replaced it with multiple layers of stainless mesh. There's a couple layers of very fine mesh at the bottom and some thicker stuff on top. Let's see how this does....


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

where are you running the block breather at ?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Interesting. Where do you have it run to then. Are you still using a catch can setup from the valve cover or something else as well?

I have crank pressure for sure as the valve cover seeps oil and all i have currently is a catch can setup ran off the valve cover. Not a real catch can either it was the plastic junker from when i was supercharged years ago.

Now i have a second setup that i have made and is sitting in my room to install. i have a second valve cover sitting here where i have two ports on it. modified the plastic baffle alittle inside of the valve cover. Then both ports run from valve cover to a dual port catch can. This


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Oh btw that fitting is on it's way.

Yeah it runs to one of the catch cans. I tried dual ports off the valve cover with my old 6262 setup, still wasn't enough. The block breather certainly does the trick though. I'm using 2 cans - one for Vc, one for block. Block wasn't baffled and as a result the can filled up quick. Trying to alleviate that.











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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

So you had the issue then as well. I had just let it go for the past four years and been changing the valve cover gaskets and now i finally said i need to do something about it lol. Well once you have the car back together and running let me know how the block breather works. I searched it but didnt find much of Vr's having the setup at all.


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Just a drilled and tapped hole in the block??


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yup.


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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

What a great idea lol. Where were you when I was building mine!!!! Working on a VR-tt now 


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

not my idea - it's been done many times with other factory FI motors - never seen it on a VR though.

With a single valve cover vent port I was blowing out my dipstick, VC gaskets were weeping oil, rear crank seal was also leaking. After I vented the block directly I had no such issues. Driving on the street you'd be fine with a single vent, but at the track it's not enough. 

R32 head and fuel rail..... sourced from INA Engineering. Super low miles too


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> R32 head and fuel rail..... sourced from INA Engineering. Super low miles too


Sweet, me and a buddy just built the same set up for another friend of ours. Added a CTS turbo kit and put it into this:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6040482-Fs-r32-full-swapped-gli

Traction is wonderfull thing!!!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Wow that Jetta is a piece of art. Good luck with your build!


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Thanks guys^
> 
> Jason- MKV R32 valve cover. I needed the PCV to be on the opposite side. This fit perfectly. Gotta love Audi / VW swap-ability! How's your VRT coming along?


Hi,

I was going to get my cam cover chopped and welded as the lump above cyl 1 will hit the hood but it looks like a mkv (or phaeton) one will work fine if I can find one. Do the coils still fit the same (I'm not sure if mkiv/v are different.

And my build is going very slowly haha. I can send you a pm with a link to my thread if you like?

Keep up the good work mate!

Jason


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Everything fits 100% the same except for the placement of the vent port, obviously. Gaskets etc are the same as well. Yeah send me a link.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

"made" an improvised keeper install tool - valvetrain installation was a LOT easier with it. It's just a 45 degree long tweezer with a rare earth magnet near the end. The magnet is just strong enough to make the keepers stick to the end of the tweezers, but also weak enough to be able to remove the tweezers and leave the keeper on the valve (once installed). I also added oil into each keeper before installation; this makes the keeper stick to the valve grooves a lot easier and you can also use the oil film to rotate the first keeper in order to install the 2nd one etc. It worked really well - I installed all 24 valves in just over an hour.










R32 head is sorted out for high revs now :thumbup:



















Stock R32 springs, valves, retainers for sale. PM me.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Nice job on the tweezers. I always use a small pick or screwdriver coated in grease. Requires a steady hand!


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## Dimmu (May 25, 2014)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Nice job on the tweezers. I always use a small pick or screwdriver coated in grease. Requires a steady hand!


i do the same thing:beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

On an engine stand, performing a cold leak down test without cams - should I see any leakage from the valves or should they be sealed up tight?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You can see a few percent if its all stock. If it drops a lot you can tell where by the sound. 

Some high performance valve jobs dont seat until break in, so watch that.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thnx Paul. I'm seeing a LOT of leak down - but it just came back from the machine shop. It was skimmed and a few seats were cut. 

Pressurizing to 90 psi I get:

#1 - 64 psi / 29%
#2 - 66 psi / 27%
#3 - 67 psi / 26%
#4 - 63 psi / 30%
#5 - 65 psi / 28%
#6 - 58 psi / 36%

Those numbers scare the bejeezus outta me (especially #6). No leakage past the rings, but ALL the intake + exhaust valves are blowing out air. Some more than others. Which is odd to me that all of them leak. Note: motor is still on the stand. 

So - run it? Or pull it off and send it back to the machine shop?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Worth a call to the machine shop, they will know where the cold leakdown should be for the angles they cut. i have seen numbers over 50% fresh go down to under 10% after the first heat cycle.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

But after a valve job.... shouldn't everything seal up 100%? Or at least within 5%?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I'm still trying to narrow this issue down.....

If anyone knows an engine builder / machinist please ask them this:

how does a cylinder head that holds 20-23 inHg fail a leak down test miserably? what would be the issue(s)?

I borrowed a Sioux pistol grip vacuum tester from a machine shop down the street and tested my new R head with it. Every single area I tested (tested them all - the seats / combustion chambers, intake ports, exhaust ports - even vacuum tested my cylinders / rings) pulled and held (indefinitely) 20-23 inHg. When I leak test it, I get air coming out of ALL exhaust and intake ports.... a LOT of air.

How would vacuum grow & hold, when pressure will not?


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

I know, you know what your doing but maybe going back to basics will help.

Cams out.
Good guides
Good springs
Seats cut to match each other then watch this..
http://youtu.be/CcF16RAJtic
Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

hey Steve - yeah a water / solvent test is kind of a mute point when doing vacuum / pressure (air) testing..... but for ****'s n giggles I poured some varsol on the combustion chambers. Nothing leaked to the naked eye.

But - those leak down #'s continue to bother me. Despite everyone saying "just run it, you're overthinking things" - I tore the head back down and tested the seats / valves myself with some Dykem hi-spot blue. Surprise surprise..... ALL valves aren't seating 100% - they all make contact, but there are some spots here n there on every single valve that aren't seating fully. Somebody f**ked up and it wasn't me..... so I'm taking it back to my machinist to sort it out.

:banghead:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Talk to the machine shop. Depending on the cuts they make they may or may not seal before running. 

The only valve jobs that havent sealed were cut too fast and you can see it in the cut once the valve is off the seat. You can also "lap" the valve with machinists blue or paint to increase the contrast.


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

I have fitted Berrylium seats exhaust side for good contact area..

Steve


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## nefkntym (Aug 4, 2010)

Very interesting progress you have made over the years. Subscribed and looking forward to more updates.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yep it was definitely the original machinist who screwed up. I took it to a guy that was recommended, and closer to me. He built my buddy's 12v and it runs fine. So I thought why not? So apparently he can build a short block but not a cylinder head.....

So I took it to the guy who worked on my old head (which was flawless) and he confirmed the seats needed "touching up". Basically every single seat needed to be hit to even them out - the original job was botched. He's much further away but I wasted more time with the other guy at the end of all of it. (Coulda had this thing running 2-3 weeks ago )

So now I have the head back on, no cams - surprise surprise I have less than 8% leak down now. Lesson learned - don't settle! If you feel something isn't right, look after it.

Once I get everything back together that'll be the end. Seriously this time 

Wish me luck!


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Glad you got it figured out and were persistent on not settling for something that did bother you


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## Dimmu (May 25, 2014)

I had a machine shop nightmare. Took a 12v crank in to get it polished and it came back royally screwed. Had to run 3 oversized bearings to fix it. Which I didn't. I made them buy me a new used crank. So I feel Ya.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

And to top it off my guy did the job cheaper, too. Never listen to your friends lolllll 


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Note to self. Get the name of that shop


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

pubahs said:


> Note to self. Get the name of that shop


I say we just raid the car when he isn't looking. You take the head, I'll grab the catch can and intake manifold. :laugh::laugh:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yea Chris msg me any time for the machine shop. It's about 1.5 hrs away from you. There was a ****load of skyline and STi motors in there but he knows VW. What sold me on him originally was the fact that he had a VR6 torque plate. (Not many have that around here)

and believe me Jon u don't wanna be me right now lol..... I pay for my gas with spare change FFS....! Msg INA about that manifold tho- they have them at a good price .

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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I won't bore you guys with the details of this latest rebuild but I did make a few revisions.

Remote fill coolant with INA aluminum heater core adapters  love these



















I also welded on some 1.5" hose barb fittings to the Mishimoto radiator as it kept leaking no matter what I tried. This way - it ain't leaking. Simple spring clip and slide on the hose - done.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

FYI RE: R32 head swap

Siemens 870cc injectors have to be machined for R32. (You can order machined 870cc's from CTS Turbo)

If you are using the 034 R32 fuel rail with Siemens 870cc you will need to make / source ~11mm spacers. (Issam @ INA can help you out with that.)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

quick "for reference" notes on the new setup with R head:
- Vacuum is -10 inHg @ idle, pulls ~ -21inHg on decel
- Oil pressure @ idle is ~40 psi @ 180F with 5w40 liqui moli, ~70 psi cruising
- R head is a BIG difference....
- Still getting the _16398/P0014/000020 - Bank 1: Camshaft B (Exhaust): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)_ code randomly (haven't seen it in about 5 weeks)
- baffled block breather works REALLY well
- new oil cooler setup works great so far, but hasn't been tested with hot summer temps. I'll probably move it a bit lower to get more airflow from the bumper + fans. 

Special thanks:

Issam @ INA - Issam has those parts that NO one else has.... plus he goes above and beyond to support his customers. Within a very quick timeframe he can also source any parts you may need, that would ordinarily take a while to find. Unreal service. :thumbup:

Clay / Nik @ CTS Turbo - always great deals on parts I need and spot on with quick shipping times. Great no-hassle company to deal with.

Jeff / Fred @ United Motorsport - they were definitely there when I needed them. Questions were explained in amazing detail, which cut my troubleshooting time down a lot. Plus the tune is just spot on - even with hardware changes the tune adapts without the need for constant updates. If you need a VAG tuned on stock management, look no further than UM. ESPECIALLY if you run a 24v VR / R32.... nuff said. no contest.

also thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread - you all had your hand with this build in some way. If you ever see my motor around at a show.... find the owner.... cuz I owe ya a few beers!


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## Gary_808 (Jan 2, 2014)

Sounds good!

Out of interest what did you do headstud/bolt wise?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Arp. ^


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## Gary_808 (Jan 2, 2014)

Did you use the 2.8 24v arp setup just with a couple of them wound out?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Two studs had to be wound out roughly 3 or 4 threads so I could get full engagement with the nuts. Keep in mind this was while using a MKV BUB head.

With the MKIV BDF head I didn't wind any of them out. 

I believe they were #16 and #13 in the drawing below. My memory is fuzzy tho. If you need to wind them out it'll be clear where u need to do so. There was still PLENTY of thread left in the head.











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## Gary_808 (Jan 2, 2014)

Excellent many thanks good to get a solid answer of some one finally  cheers


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

It's summer again! And track time once more 

I made a few changes -

Relocated oil cooler back to driver's side bumper grille. In hindsight I was stupid to put it in between the I/c and rad. I thought my new fans would be up to the task, but I was wrong. The L or R bumper grilles are the best place for an oil cooler on MK4 + VR6 it seems. 

Mishimoto rad was found leaking a BIT by the end tanks on both sides. I say a BIT, as I didn't have to replace coolant (just a few touch ups here n there), but it was leaking nonetheless. I welded fittings etc to it, so I'm probably out of warranty. I dunno what I'll do with this in the future- suggestions on aluminum or performance rads?

Installed Schimmel Performance's billet spin on oil filter adapter! I gotta say - I wish this part was available when I was building the motor originally. No one will ever see it, but it's probably one of the nicest parts in my engine bay. SP gives you more than enough sensor ports to work with so if you're like me and want to monitor everything then you're all set. Also - probably the most crucial part for us turbo guys is - it has a FILTERED turbo oil feed!! Plus I like spin on filters vs cartridge style, so win / win. U can kinda guess - I LOvE this piece. Well done Bill 

http://vr6parts.com/onlinestore/index.php/24vr6oilhousing.html



















Car is running great, no codes whatsoever. That phantom cam code hasn't reappeared. It's my first MK4 without Xmas lights on the dash 

Also, I'm In the process of tuning my new (used) AVC-R. I'm trying out boost by gear - it's a really feature rich boost controller and complicated - but that's why I like it. When I get it all sorted I plan to head to a proper dyno one more time, to truly see what my hard work has accomplished. Wish me luck 


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Nice bit of kit you have there.
I use a Mocal 25 row in my left scoop which works well.
I've just bought a HKS EVC6-IR to try out boost by gear or time.
Steve


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Damn yeah- that HKs was my first choice actually - visually it looks much better, plus some features on it are really cool. But- couldn't find the damn things!!! Just barely managed to find a used AVC-R from a JDM tuner shop around the area so I'm giving that a go. 

what are the dimensions of your 25 row? Or model #? It would be ideal to have a tall cooler rather than a wide one in that spot. Right now my oil cooler is about 13" wide, it's not ideal, and it's a 19 row. 25 would be nice at the track. 

Edit: this one?
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/mocal-oil-cooler-25-row-10jic-115-m-oc25n-10jic

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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

This is where my oil cooler is located and you can get an idea of the width of the unit which is approx. 10" square from bracket to bracket. I don't have the part number handy..

Steve


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

Did you check/clean up any of the inside edges on the SP part? I noticed on mine there quite a few burrs, some of of them came off by fingernail.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks Steve. I'll have to look into it some more at a later date. I just made the one I had work with the space, but your size cooler would be much better suited for that spot.

Jon- I checked over the part really well..... I didn't see any burrs etc on mine.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Awesome looks good and nice update on upgrades. 

Also Howie at HEP will have this radiator available soon. Think he has one on his instagram. I am purchasing one as soon as they are available


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Wicked news man. I'm definitely gonna need one too. I've only seen a handful of things made by HEP, but they were all quality. Mishimoto on the other hand - I can't recommend this rad to others.



















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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Mishimoto has had nothing but issues. Howie at HEP is 15-20 min away from me so the car wears alot of his products lol. But i cant wait for the rads to be ready. Is yours leaking at the end tanks where they join the tubes?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Seems like yeah


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## Njegos18t (Jul 31, 2007)

I had the same issue with the radiator only had 10k miles and started to leak. I went back to stock radiator with slim fans :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

*2002+ MK4 VW A'PEXi AVC-R wiring setup*

It took a lot of research plus a lot of trial and error but I finally figured this AVC-R out - and I'm loving it. If you want boost by gear control then the AVC-R is a great choice.

*2002+ MK4 VW A'PEXi AVC-R wiring setup*

So for most ME7 ECU's after 2002 the RPM wire at the ECU isn't a raw square wave signal, it's canbus (the AVC-R can't understand that). Instead there are two places you can tap into to get a raw / pure square wave RPM signal - at the ECU (for BDF VR6 it's T121/37) or sometimes T10/9 on the orange plug underneath the wiring harness cover in the rain tray on the driver's side (where the main harness goes into the cabin, remove that black plastic cover and look inside for the 10 pin orange plug @ pin #9).

For speed I tapped into the VSS signal found at the blue connector behind the instrument cluster (BDF VR6 @ T32/28). The speed reading on the AVC-R is off by about +25kph, but due to my research that's because the AVC-R is "calibrated" more to JDM vehicles and that may be why it isn't agreeing with ze germans. As long as the RPM / speed ratio remains consistent (which it is) then the EBC will work properly (and it's definitely working properly).

I didn't use throttle body signal, and I used the main ECU ground in the rain tray for both ground wires. Hook up the power wire to a switched +12v (I used a fuse at the fuse panel) and the job's done.

^^hope that makes someone's life a little easier! it was a biotch figuring that out


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

They are awesome once you get them figured out. How did you set yours up?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

installing it on a VW is the hard part, only because you can't just tap the "RPM" wire etc, you have to do a bit of tinkering. But - figuring it out how to tune the unit actually came easy to me. (dunno why people have issues.) it really is a fantastic EBC..... more people should be using it.

right now Im running off the spring (10psi) in 1st, 12psi in 2nd, 15psi in 3rd, 18psi in 4th, and 22psi 5 & 6. I also increased the duty in the early RPM ranges in the later gears (4/5/6) so it kicks in a bit harder / earlier. I think I can push a little more in 2nd and 3rd, but for now I'm gonna leave it as is and drive it to see where I can eek out some more power without losing traction. I'm heading to the track again in a couple weeks or so.... so I'll be doing more than a few "test and tune" runs there to narrow it down. so far so good though.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

Yea I got mine squared away quick. On "off" I see 5psi which is spring, then on "A" it's up to 15psi max, and "B" I use at the track but haven't been there yet this year to see how things will go.


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Nice updates! Have to come see it soon and bring mine by


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

pubahs said:


> Nice updates! Have to come see it soon and bring mine by


come to springfling :thumbup:


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Planning on it! 👍


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## Jckl (Aug 29, 2004)

My mishimoto rad started leaking in the same spot at ~10k miles.. I am going to warranty it and sale it.. Currently I have a cheap aluminum one off ebay that looks identical to the mishimoto and so far it has not started leaking.. We will see... It have a lifetime warranty also so I figured if it starts to leak ill do the same with it. The bonus was I got it for $115 and not $250


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

clutch is starting to slip.......

should I go twin-disc this time?


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## Dimmu (May 25, 2014)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> clutch is starting to slip.......
> 
> should I go twin-disc this time?


clutch masters twin disk is awesome. im getting one soon


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Dimmu said:


> clutch masters twin disk is awesome. im getting one soon


what are the reasons for your decision to go with twin?

I'm very happy with the FX400 6 puck.... it exceeded my expectations as I drive the car HARD, and often (many many clutch drops, LC, 7k+ revs, aggressive downshifting, burnouts, long time attack sessions etc). I was thinking of just resurfacing the FW and grabbing a FX500 as the 400 is near the limit of its holding capacity now and I always go 1 or 2 "steps" higher than what I need when it comes to clutches. I can't seem to find any holding or tq rating for the twin discs tho.... anyone know? Without the data I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on such an expensive clutch.

FX400 holds 170% more holding capacity than stock
FX500 holds 200-400% more holding capacity than stock
FX725 holds = ? (can't seem to find the data)
FX850 holds = ? (can't seem to find the data)


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## Dimmu (May 25, 2014)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> what are the reasons for your decision to go with twin?
> 
> I'm very happy with the FX400 6 puck.... it exceeded my expectations as I drive the car HARD, and often (many many clutch drops, LC, 7k+ revs, aggressive downshifting, burnouts, long time attack sessions etc). I was thinking of just resurfacing the FW and grabbing a FX500 as the 400 is near the limit of its holding capacity now and I always go 1 or 2 "steps" higher than what I need when it comes to clutches. I can't seem to find any holding or tq rating for the twin discs tho.... anyone know? Without the data I'm hesitant to pull the trigger on such an expensive clutch.
> 
> ...


This is the first serious drag car I'm building, I've driven cars with single, twin and triple clutches. When you get used to em it's not bad to drive around. I'm looking to make around 700whp and need something that can handle anything.

I was looking at the fx500 but people have told me that it doesn't really hold more power than the 400, it sucks for driving (who cares! Lol) and the twin disk will hold 1000 whp easily. And is lighter than the stock setup.


Google twin disk vr6. There's a TON of info.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I did a lot of Google-ing on the subject, but I must suck cuz I see no definitive #'s. After asking around everyone is telling me twin disc = whatever u can throw at it. So - I'll give it a go. Might take me a while to save up for that ish tho! Let me know how it goes Dimmu as you'll probably have your twins in before me. (I'm thinking I'll do it over the winter)

In the meantime I cleaned up the fuel rail setup, with a couple newly released fittings that made it all work. The way I had it before with hoses etc was just..... bugging me. So I had to improve it. 

Big shout out to Aeroflow performance in Australia (https://www.aeroflowperformance.com)- they hooked me up with a very unique fitting that I couldn't find anywhere else: -8AN swivel female > -8AN swivel female, but at 180 degrees and FULL FLOW (no hard 90's). This made the whole process possible. 

Then another cool fitting I found was from Earl's. -8ORB > -8ORB swivel. This fitting made it possible to connect my Aeromotive X1 straight to the rail for added cleanliness.

For any of you with an R 034 billet fuel rail - this is probably one of the cleanest ways to set it up. 

If anyone wants stainless hardlines made for this application, or if you want a complete setup like shown just IM me. 




















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## MK3.OT (May 4, 2010)

Nice. Did you build the actual hard lines? Looks sharp.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yep I'm the only one who has touched or driven this car, aside from the tech who did the alignment 

The bends aren't difficult at all so if you know how to bend and flare etc then you probably won't have a hard time replicating this. And before someone asks - I didn't want to do a 180 bend with the tube as the radius would have been too large for my liking. Plus the stainless tube kept flattening out at the middle point of the bend for some reason. The 180 fitting tightens it up so it looks more like it was supposed to be there in the first place, plus it gives me the flexibility to go with a -8 size tube in the future if I wanted to. 

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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

Lines look nice!

as for your flattening, that happens when the tube pulls thru the bender; take a hose clamp and cinch down on the end close to the level that holds the tube in place; that wills top it from pulling thru as you try and bend. that is a common issue when doing larger tubing and/or stainless, so large stainless is a problem child!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Ah nice - thanks for the tip!


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## tylerlb (Jun 13, 2004)

Quite the thread. Just read through the whole thing. OP, props for continually doing it right! :beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thnx Tyler appreciate it. I try to do things "right", but I don't always pull it off lol.

quick update-
Changed it up from gforce spec 2's to R888's. I have a decent amount of tread left on the spec2's so I'm gonna keep them as rain tires (IMO they perform great in change-up conditions or in the wet, but dry grip is lacking).

Hitting the track again with some JDM guys and maybe a mclaren next week, I'll try to get some video. Also I'm still trying to find the damn time to get on a dyno to see what all the updates did..... but my 12-14 hr work days are making that difficult


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Yep I'm the only one who has touched or driven this car, aside from the tech who did the alignment


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::beer::beer::beer:


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## Coolcorey1218 (May 14, 2015)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> That may have been the case a few years back but not anymore. ARP prefers stretch method.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Is this a custom made bumper support bar or bought? Because im looking to find one that supports my intercooler and bumper at the same time like a bash bar for my mk4 jetta


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Coolcorey1218 said:


> Is this a custom made bumper support bar or bought? Because im looking to find one that supports my intercooler and bumper at the same time like a bash bar for my mk4 jetta


that re-bar came with the eurojet intercooler


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Racing improvements update:

Found out that an expansion tank is definitely a good idea with these engines when pushing to the limit. I'm a huge eBay / kijiji / craigslist deal whore so when I stumbled upon a used radium expansion tank for $100 I jumped on it. It's a little worn around the edges but overall the last guy took care of it well so I snatched it up. 










Performs great and I like all the added features. (Sight tube, cyclone chamber, multiple AN ports, etc)

Also moved the oil cooler up closer to the bumper vent to get better cooling. A 25 row is the most you can fit here it looks like. 

For the cooler- Made a custom bracket that I bolted to the frame rail. Relocated the horns to the passenger side. Also cut out the front face of the frame rail (where the rebar bolts to + where the horns were originally bolted on) to get more direct air to hit the cooler. At the track highest temp I see is around 230 (used to get up to 270+) and driving around town the temps never go past 190-ish. I had plans to fab up an aluminum duct to direct air flow more, but I don't think it's necessary.




























R888's are insane btw. On one track in particular my times went down about 4.5 seconds a lap. I'm having a LOT of fun on these tyres 

Oh almost forgot - my flex-a-lite VSC fan controller died. Crappy. So instead of buying a new one which will probably die in 5 minutes, I wired up a 40amp relay + fuse and hooked up the fans to a manual toggle switch in the cabin. I'm just gonna control it manually. I actually kinda like it better this way. 

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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Is this the same VSC?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...onably-priced-permanant-customizable-solution


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yep same one. It's a POS. 


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

it's clutch time! 

my old Clutchmasters FX400 6 puck did great, I have no complaints! If you are around 400-ish tq I'd have no issues recommending that clutch. It's a very good compromise for daily & track.

But- now that I'm pushing above 25# I need more grab. My new clutch needs to hold at least 500 tq and take a beating at the track. Comfort / pedal feel / blabla I don't care about.

What kit / company would you choose if you were in my shoes?


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## Scottedontknow (Mar 20, 2009)

Honestly I ran southbend in my vrt. Amazing quality, and I'm never had a problem. Maybe only con is price?


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> What kit / company would you choose if you were in my shoes?


Depends on your budget
rule of thumb in my world
Single Disc + SMF = South Bend (limited to about 550Nm)
Twin/Triple Disc = Tilton

Clutch Masters makes an O.K. product but the issues that arose were after sales support. It can be tedious at times. 

Whatever you do...stay away from SPEC


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

and so it begins..... 

I'm gonna try to do this in record time.... I want to get the rear floor pan in this week, the rest of the parts in the week after that, and trouble shoot etc the week after that. T-minus 3 weeks: let's see if I can do it.


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Looks familiar










Mine has been done for over a year now. You will love it!


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Damn, your not messing around. Love seeing the awd swaps


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> and so it begins.....
> 
> I'm gonna try to do this in record time.... I want to get the rear floor pan in this week, the rest of the parts in the week after that, and trouble shoot etc the week after that. T-minus 3 weeks: let's see if I can do it.


If you are successful at this , you will have 2 to do along with the S2 come May.
:thumbup::beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

hah- u are assuming I'd wanna do this twice!


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

INA said:


> Depends on your budget
> rule of thumb in my world
> Single Disc + SMF = South Bend (limited to about 550Nm)
> *Twin/Triple Disc = Tilton*
> ...


Care to elaborate on the Tilton options?? I got a DM motorsport kit which is basically a tilton triple with metalic disk and it is a handful to drive, it has always handled the power no problem even after one of the disks lost all of its splines. 
Need to play with pedal stops to help with the downshifting grind I get if the rev match is not perfectly executed. the release bearing is a modified OEM unit.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

AWD swap Day 1 progress:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

day 2


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

need some advice from any of you who have used a TT floor pan for a golf AWD swap, I have an issue.

The front of the floor fits like a glove- but the rear of the floor, where the frame rail is, sticks out about 1", and if I line up the Audi TT rear floor spot welds with the rear Golf spot welds the floor looks like it's sitting down at a 35 degree angle in the rear (looks like it's tilted / not level). So basically- the floor looks too long, and the rear spot welds don't line up as the TT floor looks like it has to sit higher than the Golf floor (which makes sense, but no one ever has written about this). I'm actually doing it though, so I'm starting to realize all the ACTUAL little problems that come with this swap.

Have any of you had this issue? How did you go about correcting it? I have a few ideas, but I was wondering what others may have done.....


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

check this out...this is a jetta wagon...but looks like he might have had to use some of the TT rails

http://www.customobsessions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=34987


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ok we figured it out

we needed to massage the wheel wells a little more, near the rear corners. Also, the Golf has extra metal on the L and R sides and the TT doesn't have that. We had to bend back the metal on both sides, muscle the floor into place, and bend back the metal to kind of "wrap" the TT floor into the Golf. Overall now everything lines up - the TT floor is a VERY, VERY, VERY tight/ exact fit. It's not welded into the car whatsoever right now, but it's sitting in place all on it's own. That's how exact the fitment is here......

there are small difference from golf to tt, but the rear audi floor pan is indeed a more or less direct swap. The TT floor is not longer, but it does sit considerably higher than the Golf floor (by about 3-4"). Now everything lines up: the rear end panel spot weld holes, the rear re-bar mounting points, the frame rails... everything.

I'm gonna leave it like that today, and start welding + seam sealer tomorrow. So I guess this is day 3 done.

here's a few pics - hopefully you can see what I'm talking about.


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## mk4vrsix03 (Mar 7, 2004)

I appreciate you sharing this swap and the pictures
Will be doing this sometime in the future

Sent from my phone


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> The TT floor is not longer, but it does sit considerably higher than the Golf floor (by about 3-4").


Although you already figured it out, you are right on the money! You will actually have to trim the inner wheel wells to accommodate the height difference.

Good call on removing the part of the floor for the charcoal canister, wish i had of done that , the hump left behind in the trunk takes up a lot of real estate!


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## platinumgrey_1.8T (Jul 13, 2007)

Car is insane in person, swap was coming along nice when I stopped by the other day! Thanks for taking time out of your day to look at my car gonna get it resolved by next week.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

^thanks. It was nothin man, I hope you get that cam code sorted out - I know how frustrating that is!!!

AWD update-
Got most of the welding done today- it's a lot of hammering / massaging to get everything to fit perfect but it's getting there. I just noticed that my dry cell battery won't fit in the spare tire area.... it's too tall..... so I gotta figure out something with that.



gdt said:


> Good call on removing the part of the floor for the charcoal canister, wish i had of done that , the hump left behind in the trunk takes up a lot of real estate!


yes it does! I will be installing my new dual 044 setup there, so I needed the room. Plus, it made it easier to work on as I didn't have to crawl into the car constantly, I could stand up while grinding / hammering / welding etc.

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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> AWD update-
> Got most of the welding done today- it's a lot of hammering / massaging to get everything to fit perfect but it's getting there. I


Confident enough to replicate it twice?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

INA said:


> Confident enough to replicate it twice?


super duper confident yeah :thumbup:

update:
the floor is in and all the seams are ground down / covered up with etch primer. I'll follow up with sprayable Wurth seam sealer tomorrow - just have to finish up patching the big hole by the spare wheel area and that's that. So far so good - I think I'm making good time but..... work just got busy again so I might get pushed back a bit now (we shall see).


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## Gerg (Sep 15, 2006)

ive always wondered what your exterior looks like normally?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

The exterior is just as custom as the rest of it. Maybe one day if I get a magazine spread then I'll spill the beans 
it's already changed colours twice though, and another change is on the way :screwy:

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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I think I'll hit it with some flat black rattle can, but other than that the floor is done! Today = finished applying seam sealer and welded in the rear seat brackets.

Finally - now I can get to the fun stuff :laugh:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

those of you who have done this swap:
what did you do with your brake lines? will my existing lines fit?


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> those of you who have done this swap:
> what did you do with your brake lines? will my existing lines fit?


I made them work with some bending and slight rerouting.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

gdt said:


> I made them work with some bending and slight rerouting.


ty. :beer:


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


>


If you already have a plan for this, I apologize, but when you cut out the charcoal canister "hump" you also cut out the hole used for the haldex harness....It was in the spot that juts out in your patch @ 9 o'clock!


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

gdt said:


> If you already have a plan for this, I apologize, but when you cut out the charcoal canister "hump" you also cut out the hole used for the haldex harness....It was in the spot that juts out in your patch @ 9 o'clock!


don't apologize! keep it coming - this is my first time doing this swap so I will use any advice you guys have!!! :beer:

Since the harness will have to be custom made, I didn't really care about where the grommet hole etc was since I would have to make one later in a different spot. The priority was to package the fuel pumps / surge tank / filters and the battery in that area. They rest I will customize as needed. No biggie :thumbup:

Update:
found a frikkin R32 gas tank up here finally! eace: now all I need is suspension :facepalm:


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Update:
> found a frikkin R32 gas tank up here finally! eace: now all I need is suspension :facepalm:


I was going to ask if you had the r32 has tank, i've seen some folks try to use the TT tank with mixed results!


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

Just read the whole thread. Nice work. I believe I meet you at Vagcraft last year. I asked if you built the car or a shop did. You also mentioned that you were planning on doing a Hadlex swap. I'm a very impressed with the work you have done on the car and believe me I don't get impressed much.
Keep up the good work. Hope to see you again at Vagcraft this year. Maybe swap some notes on cars. :thumbup:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

VRT said:


> Hope to see you again at Vagcraft this year. Maybe swap some notes on cars. :thumbup:


for sure :thumbup:

Soo..... I just added up all the costs involved with suspension / brakes / bushings / fasteners blabla. Long story short- I need some cash to finish this up lol. I'll leave a link here in case any subscribers want anything.... help me finish this thing !!!

:banghead:

Post AWD MK4 swap extra parts for sale


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Soooo... I just took my transmission out. Definitely need a new one :banghead: RIP 02M #1 lol.

Gears 3 and 4 are not stripped, but they are definitely worn. Hairline cracks in some gears - very fine, a camera can't pick them up but they can be seen by eye. Bell housing / gear casing look great still. Peloquin LSD and ring gear look perfect. USP steel shifter forks look perfect as well (will probably re-use).
^ I was hearing a loud moaning / groaning sound while in decel in gears 3 and 4. Slight occasional grind when shifting from 2-3.

I had no problems for years with 400whp / ~350 ft-lbs. Even with 500whp / ~450 ft-lbs I had no issues for a long long time. One full summer @ ~600hp / ~550 ft-lbs seems to have done it. If I push this box more at these power levels it will certainly grenade this summer, I have no doubt. Based on my experience I'd say the "safe" limit is between 450-500 ft-lbs.

After talking about it a bit with Issam I discovered the 0A6 conversion for VR6's.... which would probably be necessary for me at this point. But- my pockets are empty cuz.... haldex conversion got me good. I'll have to wait next winter for 0A6, OR- get back on track with my original plan for the motor.... a dedicated racecar S4 01E.

For now, I've ordered a DRP 02M from Europe :thumbup: That means though, at least for this summer, I'll have to dial down and stay around 500-550 whp. I'm sure there will be a bit of a learning curve driving with AWD anyways..... so I'll probably start off with less - maybe 400-450 until I understand how the car behaves.

Anyhow I'm waiting on parts, so I'll just be doing some minor stuff in the meantime.

*02M FWD PELOQUIN LSD FOR SALE (less than 8000 km's on it) /w ARP bolts & ring gear - PM me.*

0A6 MQ500 with VR6 adapter bracket from iabed industries:


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

^^^^ 

That's a DSG correct?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

gdt said:


> ^^^^
> 
> That's a DSG correct?


It's manual. It only came in the 4cylinder bell housing though, that's why it has to be machined and have an adapter fitted to bolt to the 6cylinder block.

The DQ500 is the DSG version of that trans. D = DSG, M = manual.


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Jo|\| said:


> It's manual. It only came in the 4cylinder bell housing though, that's why it has to be machined and have an adapter fitted to bolt to the 6cylinder block.
> 
> The DQ500 is the DSG version of that trans. D = DSG, M = manual.


Now that i have another look i can see the shift tower....

Nice!!!


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

gdt said:


> Now that i have another look i can see the shift tower....
> 
> Nice!!!



What flywheel and clutch setup would you run with that? 02m?


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Been awhile since i've been on Vortex - quite the pleasant surprise! 

Looking great, ill have to come by the shop sometime and check it out:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::beer:


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Nice i had looked at doing the 0A6 conversion on my R32 as i have destroyed a few oems sheering teeth off the gears. currently
running a DRP trans so far so good. Not sure if the pricing has come down on the 0a6 conversion or not. But i think ill have to just go with a gearset from lugtronic.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Lugtronic gear set, eeeehhhhh? Gotta check that out....

Stuff arrived today 

Just need raxles and control arms now!
(and the damn driveshaft brackets)

DRP 02M


















^eh what's that flange / bolt hole at the bottom there? This isn't on my NA 02M. 

Also- opinions on performance Haldex controllers? FYI I've invested in a rear LSD and we are talking racing / track use. What are some of the best ones out there?

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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Also- opinions on performance Haldex controllers? FYI I've invested in a rear LSD and we are talking racing / track use. What are some of the best ones out there?


Nice looking trans, mind telling who you got it through?

I heat the UM haldex tunes are real good, but no direct experience.


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> ^eh what's that flange / bolt hole at the bottom there? This isn't on my NA 02M.


It holds the shifter rod on the early 02Ms. VW switched to a bushing in the case for the later 02Ms.

The section with the O-ring fits into that flange/cap thing.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks Jon. interesting differences in these transmissions.....



What do you BT / high HP R32 guys do for rear axles? I can't seem to find anything performance / racing wise for the rears. What are my options?


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

Drive shaft shop makes them.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

Stock axles have never given me a problem.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

I've been running stock axles never given me a problem. The rears are still the originals from when i bought the car new. the fronts i just replaced last month with the last new set of oem axles in the country lol. After 12yrs of being lowered, over 200 1/4 miles passes, some road course action, mountain driving,been in and out of the car a bunch of time due to clutches and transmissions one started get noisy so replaced both.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks guys- so I guess OEM will have to do. I can probably find some TTQ rear axles at the wreckers for 20-30$.....

Anyone know how many ft-lbs / n-m this bolt gets torqued to? It's the transfer case axle flange > transmission, the long 6mm hex that you have to reach for:


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## sTT eV6 (Oct 26, 2010)

Shafts are different between DSG and manual and my hex socket is torqued to 40nm.

Be aware that some transfer case insert couplings are a different length and or style on the longer axle side...
Steve


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> thanks guys- so I guess OEM will have to do. Are MK1 TTQ axles the same, or are R32 ones different?


ETKA has the same rear axle part number for the MK1 TT and MK4 R32.



24vGTiVR6 said:


> Anyone know how many ft-lbs / n-m this bolt gets torqued to? It's the transfer case axle flange > transmission, the long 6mm hex that you have to reach for:


18ft/lb or 25Nm, It's the same bolt used on the other vw output flanges


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

as always thanks a lot guys! much appreciated

brought the motor down to fix some things I noticed throughout the season, and to change the clutch cuz it was slipping big time.... and of course to mate the new DRP 02M.

Bought some used timing covers (and the crank cover on the other side) as some of the threads were really worn down due to removing / replacing a few times, and also refreshed all o-rings / seals etc as I had a few unexplained oil leaks here n there.










Found that the water pump was leaking somehow.... I was losing a little bit of coolant but I could never see from where exactly... now I know. So, it got replaced. But- had a little bit of trouble with the soft aluminum mounting bolts - bought new ones from the dealer, but two still snapped on me (Bentley says 20 n-m)



















Started to dig into the DRP.... it's clear now why this version is much stronger. It looks like VW went hardcore cheap-mode with the later 02M's.....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Getting to the wavetrac now.... my peloquin came with new bearings but wavetrac did not. Should I purchase new ones or press the old ones off and use those?
These bearings should be the same type across all 02M's, right? or are DRP different?


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Getting to the wavetrac now.... my peloquin came with new bearings but wavetrac did not. Should I purchase new ones or press the old ones off and use those?
> These bearings should be the same type across all 02M's, right? or are DRP different?


The DRP is definitely better after looking through it and comparing it to the late model trans. Also on the wavetrac get new bearings.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

newcreation said:


> Also on the wavetrac get new bearings.


Just call up the dealer and ask for 02M differential bearings x 2? Just wanna make sure the euro version isn't different somehow.....


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Let me see if I can find the part number.


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Found that the water pump was leaking somehow.... I was losing a little bit of coolant but I could never see from where exactly... now I know. So, it got replaced. But- had a little bit of trouble with the soft aluminum mounting bolts - bought new ones from the dealer, but two still snapped on me (Bentley says 20 n-m)


I think VW got a bad batch of those bolts. 2 of them installed fine, but the 3rd one stretched twice. I ended up ordering a few of them and finally one held. I used a recently calibrated in/lb torque wrench too, so it wasn't me.


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Just call up the dealer and ask for 02M differential bearings x 2? Just wanna make sure the euro version isn't different somehow.....


002517185A

That is straight from ETKA for the DRP.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Yupp he is correct ^^^


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## mk4vrsix03 (Mar 7, 2004)

Jo|\| said:


> I think VW got a bad batch of those bolts. 2 of them installed fine, but the 3rd one stretched twice. I ended up ordering a few of them and finally one held. I used a recently calibrated in/lb torque wrench too, so it wasn't me.


I too had a few snap on me recently at the torque setting Bentley calls for. 

Sent from my phone


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## mk4vrsix03 (Mar 7, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> as always thanks a lot guys! much appreciated
> 
> brought the motor down to fix some things I noticed throughout the season, and to change the clutch cuz it was slipping big time.... and of course to mate the new DRP 02M.
> 
> ...


Are you still running the BUB head? Is that the 2.8L upper timing cover?

I have a BUB head on the way from an 07 EOS. My research thus far suggests I'll need to swap the cams and gears as well as the upper timing cover. Is that correct? 


Sent from my phone


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

Your tarnny looks like my early TT tarnny. :thumbup:Wish I had them gears ratio


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

mk4vrsix03 said:


> Are you still running the BUB head? Is that the 2.8L upper timing cover?
> 
> I have a BUB head on the way from an 07 EOS. My research thus far suggests I'll need to swap the cams and gears as well as the upper timing cover. Is that correct?
> 
> Sent from my phone


yep 2.8L BDF timing covers, when I bought the BUB head it was bare, I swapped over everything from my BDF head. It was a straight swap for me.....

TYVM guys I dunno where the hell I'd be able to find that part #.... TY TY TY TY


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Getting to the wavetrac now.... my peloquin came with new bearings but wavetrac did not. Should I purchase new ones or press the old ones off and use those?
> These bearings should be the same type across all 02M's, right? or are DRP different?


Get Timken bearings. They are about $8-9 each if you have a local bearing place. If not I can get them from JBS for you.:thumbup:


mk4vrsix03 said:


> My research thus far suggests I'll need to swap the cams and gears as well as the upper timing cover. Is that correct?


You only swap covers if you have an AXK (Eurovan) cylinder head.
All 2.8/3.2 24V VR6 engines with Dual VVT are interchangeable between gears , solenoids etc.


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## mk4vrsix03 (Mar 7, 2004)

INA said:


> You only swap covers if you have an AXK (Eurovan) cylinder head.
> All 2.8/3.2 24V VR6 engines with Dual VVT are interchangeable between gears , solenoids etc.


Ah I see. Thanks for the info. 

Is my Rothe SRI here yet?? 

Sent from my phone


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Where did you get the DRP transmission from?


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

INA said:


> Get Timken bearings. They are about $8-9 each if you have a local bearing place. If not I can get them from JBS for you.:thumbup:


ohh damn, I just spend tons of money on the OEM bearings. Are the Timken bearings equivalent or better than OEM??


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Timken is a better quality brand. That's what I use in expensive motors and gearboxes at work. Talking electric motors and industrial gearboxes.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

newcreation said:


> Timken is a better quality brand. That's what I use in expensive motors and gearboxes at work. Talking electric motors and industrial gearboxes.


ohh I see, all I could find online was that they are all made in china


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

INA said:


> Get Timken bearings. They are about $8-9 each if you have a local bearing place. If not I can get them from JBS for you.:thumbup:


found some timken at a local place for about $15 each :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

also, just saying - OE bearings are made in Ukraine now? BUT - my timken bearings say made in frikkin China?

here are some other part #'s for this swap that some people might want:

Angle drive > transmission seals
02M 409 203
N 904 837 01
N 028 222 2

Newest OEM revision for the differential bearings + races
002 517 185 M

I found out there is a supporting bracket that bolts up to the angle drive and then into the block:
bracket = 02M 409 905 A
bolts that go in the bracket x 2 = N 910 000 02

also the R32 heat shield in the rear is coming my way.... when I get that part# I'll post that up.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

guys with boosted R32's..... do you have pics of your downpipes? 3" or can 3.5 fit?

gruvenparts control arms arrived! man these put a big dent in the cc. gotta pay to play, right?


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

My corrado haldex has a 3" downpipe. Not sure why 3.5 is needed, most power can be had with 3"


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

I have a 3in on my R32 and it looks identical to his pic above me. Its a tight fit not sure if a 3.5" could fit in there. However at his vband in the pic my 
car transitions to a 3.5" straight pipe.


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

My 3" is wicked close, like 1/4" to the driveshaft and subframe; I think while your car is apart your could clearance the tunnel a little to make a 3.5" clear


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

This thread is relevant to my interests. 

:beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Diff install is the weekend project 










Thanks for the pics guys- I can't tell tho- does the R exhaust hang down below the floor a bit, or?

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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

My 3.5" setup does hang down a bit. I'll try and get you some pics tomorrow


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Alright my 3.5" system sits pretty low especially where it goes down near the awd in the back. That is just a resonator has no cats or mufflers. Picture at the bottom is the exact setup I am running


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

thanks a lot for the pics. yeah yours does hang low down there damn. let's see what I can figure out :what:

just got the heat shield and axles today..... last pieces of the puzzle!!!!! This weekend is gonna be awesome 

I'm gonna be like this kid soon I hope! (I got em! I got em!)

GoPro Channel | Kid Karting


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ok so I pressed the diff bearings on. 46mm impact socket was perfect for that job, FYI. can anyone confirm if this is correct for checking preload / differential shims etc?

1. install new bearing race and 0.65mm (standard) shim into the bell housing half of the trans case
2. install new bearing race into gearbox half of the trans case - without any shim
3. install the diff into the case, and have nothing else inside it
4. bolt up the 2 case halves together with a few bolts, and torque up 18 ft-lbs + 1/8 turn
5. push diff towards the clutch and spin 8 times
6. push diff towards the gearbox side and spin 8 times
7. mount a dial gauge onto the case, zero it @ 1mm preload, and check amount of play
8. add the constant value = 0.30mm to the amount of play measured @ the diff and that's the shim you need (example: if there's 0.10mm play at the diff, then I'll need a 0.40mm shim)

that right?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Anyone know how the crap I'm supposed to drive this bearing race out without damaging it?

I've measured free play, now I need to drive the bearing race out of the gearbox side to get the new shim in there. But how?

FYI I removed the old oil bearing races by running a filler-less bead around them with a TIG torch. Can't do this with the new race or I'll destroy it, so I need another way. I'm probably tired and can't see a simple solution..... so help me out . 










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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Check here:
https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=310279


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Anyone know how the crap I'm supposed to drive this bearing race out without damaging it?


You can drill 2 or 3 small holes in the case and use a punch on the on the back of the bearing race. Working on finding a picture to demonstrate.

Edit:

Can't find a good pic, so here is a crappy drawing.

Green is the seal.
Red is the bearing.
Black is the case.
Blue is metal removal.

Instead of taking material at an angle like on the left, drill some small holes for a punch like on the right. It is WAY easier then the angled punch approach.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks guys- I'm gonna try drilling straight down. Wish me luck.










Should I be concerned with this ^?


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## Mr.loops (May 27, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Thanks guys- I'm gonna try drilling straight down. Wish me luck.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are you referring to the dents in the shift hub? I wonder if some bearing "play" caused this. Was there any damage to anything else? How'd the oil look when you drained it? Any silver glitter in it?

I didn't see in the post, but are you going to reinforce the shift forks pins and replace the synchros while your in there?


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## Mr.loops (May 27, 2010)

Also regarding removing the bearing race here's what VAG recommends 










Of course no one has that tool

Another trick to remove it, that does not involve drilling into your box, is to lay a small weld bead on the race itself. It will just pop out 


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Mr.loops said:


> Are you referring to the dents in the shift hub? I wonder if some bearing "play" caused this. Was there any damage to anything else? How'd the oil look when you drained it? Any silver glitter in it?


Yup- no damage of any kind in the rest of the case. Can't see any signs of bearing wear on any of the races or bearings etc. Oil was already drained when I got the trans, but I didn't see any signs of trouble that way.



Mr.loops said:


> I didn't see in the post, but are you going to reinforce the shift forks pins and synchros while your in there?


I have USP steel welded shift forks in my old trans, I'm gonna use those in the DRP.


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Mr.loops said:


> Of course no one has that tool


https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemId=51340007
https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemId=51370006


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## Mr.loops (May 27, 2010)

GRN6IX said:


> https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemId=51340007
> https://vw.snapon.com/SpecialToolsDetail.aspx?itemId=51370006


Yup I buy from them regularly 

What I meant by that statement was a lot of DIY'ers have issues spending $200.00+ (shipping) on a tool that will be put into service once for a rebuild. So they won't use it for the R&R job.


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Agreed. I'm rebuilding my 02M right now & I'm on the fence about buying them. I suppose I could rent them out after I'm done, but that's a PIA


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

Mr.loops said:


> Another trick to remove it, that does not involve drilling into your box, is to lay a small weld bead on the race itself. It will just pop out
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


well the holes that we drilled on mine, just like described above where tiny 1/16th or so. The holes are far enough from the edge where it wont compromise anything. throw a punch right in there and a couple of taps will get that thing out without needing to weld and possibly deforming the race.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yeah I drilled 1/16 holes, and I have a pretty long 1/16 punch so hopefully that will make it easy.

Work has been kicking my ass lately- progress has been slow but will pick up again now. 

Still working on the diff install now: First thing I did was measure the existing diff shims so I knew what I was working with. I found that the standard shim is 0.65mm in the bell housing, and the adjusting shim is 0.95mm (in the gear box half).

Second, I improvised to make a "mount" for a dial gauge, to measure / shim the LSD. I already had a magnetic base dial gauge kit- so I took the swivel clamps off the magnetic base, grabbed an old bolt, added some filler to it via TIG (so the swivel clamps could grip the bolt as it was too skinny), grinded it down, and clamped it on.



















reading shows between 0.023" - 0.024" of play without the gear box shim installed (I'll round that to ~0.60mm). As per the workshop manual I have to add 0.30mm to the recorded amount of free play, which means I'll need to order a 0.90mm thick shim (part # 02B409210 E).

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## Mr.loops (May 27, 2010)

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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

I've done a couple diffs without checking the preload, and have known of others not bothering with it either. This would be 02A transmissions which nobody really gives a damn about anyway. 



That said I may try this on my current build, since I have or have access to the tools. Pretty sure you could make a foot to thread onto a regular two or three jaw puller that would work on the bearing race.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

does anyone know the stock radiator hose sizes for 3.2 VR6?
are they= 1.5" upper & 1.25" lower?

and.... those 1/16 holes I drilled to remove the gearbox diff bearing (after checking preload) - not good / wouldn't advise it. 1/16 diameter is so small, and the bearing race is pressed in there really tight - so when I tried to remove it - my 1/16 punch bent, then I used drill bits which broke, then I used a hex key and broke that...... 

long story short..... I'm buying the VW tools. ****. ****. *******. :thumbdown:


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Ahh man i wish i saw you were trying that stuff and could of saved you the hassle and just said get the tools its just the easiest way with these things. On industrial gearboxes 
at work i weld a bead around the race and then they fall out. I just never wanted to do it on my 02m's


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

it's all good man.... i never thought the 1/16 hole plan would be an issue but damn that bearing race really is dug in there.

someone else told me that I could use dry ice and the race would just fall out....... might try it just for ****z n giggles.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

Dry ice could work. Never tired it on one of our transmissions.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> it's all good man.... i never thought the 1/16 hole plan would be an issue but damn that bearing race really is dug in there.
> 
> someone else told me that I could use dry ice and the race would just fall out....... might try it just for ****z n giggles.


wow that is really surprising, we just did mine not so long ago and the punch did just fine getting the race out of there. had to go slowly but it got pushed out no problem


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

huichox4 said:


> wow that is really surprising, we just did mine not so long ago and the punch did just fine getting the race out of there. had to go slowly but it got pushed out no problem


maybe my punch was crap? It bent pretty much immediately.... I'll try looking for something stronger. Was yours S2 / tool steel or etc? My punch that bent was chrome vanadium.... maybe not strong enough.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Trying the dry ice route..... kinda interested to see if it actually works. Found a local place that sells 5kg for $20, so why not. 













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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> maybe my punch was crap? It bent pretty much immediately.... I'll try looking for something stronger. Was yours S2 / tool steel or etc? My punch that bent was chrome vanadium.... maybe not strong enough.


well it was Jo|\|'s punch, it was small maybe 1/16 or 3/32 cant really remember. his had already a bent in it, maybe you can try slightly larger punch if you have? there is plenty of meat in there. 


are you going to heat the case around the race so it also expands?? that might help with the dry ice option??


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yep I heated outside the case before I dropped the dry ice in.

ok so- I'm glad I drilled those 1/16 holes..... they saved me in the end.

The dry ice didn't make the race just drop out, but it did loosen it enough so that I could go through one of those 1/16 holes I made to move it down a tad - enough to get a punch around the edges to tap it down. The race wouldn't fall out via dry ice, but I think the hot + cold combo loosened it enough for me to punch out. (finally)

opcorn:


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> yep I heated outside the case before I dropped the dry ice in.
> 
> ok so- I'm glad I drilled those 1/16 holes..... they saved me in the end.
> 
> ...


I am glad you got it worked out man!!
:beer::beer:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

someone asked me to post how the USP shift forks held up. They are perfect as far as I can see.... here you go:



















now I need a little bit of info if anyone out there has access to torque specs for DRP 02M
also this seal (02M301189) - does it only go on one side of the trans? its the one on the outside of the case between the diff and axle cup. does it go in the clutch housing side or gear side? the diagram I have sucks....


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...elector_mechanism_through_gearbox_date_18053/

Still working on that first small input shaft bolt.

Edit:

The rest.

http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...fts_differential_bevel_box_and_selector_rods/

#11 is the small bolt.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

how the crap did I not know about this site? thanks Jo|\|


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> how the crap did I not know about this site? thanks Jo|\|


It's a pain to use sometimes and the constant popup is annoying, but the info is pulled from elsawin(VWs repair program).

That seal is only used on the driver side output flange/axle cup. The transfer case is sealed using an oring. There is a seal(#9) in the transfer case that goes against the shaft that rotates, but its a different part number then one in your pic.










http://i.imgur.com/tVYo01k.png - Large pic


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

ok ty- got the transmission sorted. had an issue with the shift selector- it wouldn't go in, but I found out that one of the forks slightly moved down when I installed the clutch housing. I had to take the case back apart to figure this out, but once I lined all the forks back up in neutral it slid in without a prob.

it's that time again tho--- wiring! I've been going over the diagrams- it seems like mr. haldex requires the following inputs:

fused (20a-? not sure how many amps?) switched +12v @ fuse 31
ground
brake light switch
parking brake switch (aka e-brake)
k-diagnosis signal?
low - can bus
high + can bus

From what I gather- I just have to give the Haldex the inputs it needs to be happy, enable Haldex via the ECU - and all should be well. ABS shouldn't be an issue as the car is a 2004 w/ esp. Right...?


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Page 23 of my thread shows what I did. 

http://www.customobsessions.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=23610&start=330


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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

Pulled this from another build thread but has some good information.




WolfsburgNate said:


> So I just got a message back from NS_PHATGLI who if anyone remembers did the haldex conversion on his blue Jetta GLI and was the only one I could find who used the stock Haldex controller and wiring instead of an aftermarket one. To confirm my guess, you can use a standard ABS module for it as long as it is one of the newer ones with ESP. The sensor attached to the steering column under the dash has to be changed to the R32 one (I think the connector is even the same so it is just a simple swap) and only a few wires have to be run from the haldex. There are 7 wires on the haldex controller that have to be connected.
> 
> 1) 5A fuse S231
> 2) Ground
> ...


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

wow thanks guys! you pretty much laid it all out for me, that's amazing ty.

_The sensor attached to the steering column under the dash has to be changed to the R32 one (I think the connector is even the same so it is just a simple swap)_

^ first time I've heard of this, I'm thinking this doesn't apply to my swap....? My car was originally 2004 24v VR6 so that stuff (I'd assume) was the same as the R? Also have to check that jumper on the ABS.... haven't seen a mention of that anywhere as well.


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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> wow thanks guys! you pretty much laid it all out for me, that's amazing ty.
> 
> _The sensor attached to the steering column under the dash has to be changed to the R32 one (I think the connector is even the same so it is just a simple swap)_
> 
> ^ first time I've heard of this, I'm thinking this doesn't apply to my swap....? My car was originally 2004 24v VR6 so that stuff (I'd assume) was the same as the R? Also have to check that jumper on the ABS.... haven't seen a mention of that anywhere as well.


The R32 sensor I have says part # 1J1 907 638 E on the back and 1K0 907 652 on the front. You can double check to see if they are the same. I am swapping my OEM non esp ABS pump with the R32 one today, I checked my ABS plug, the jumper is between 14 and 38. I still have the R32 plug and the jumper is between 14 and 39. You can check yours just to be sure.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks^ 

What sensor is it exactly? What's it called?


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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Thanks^
> 
> What sensor is it exactly? What's it called?
> 
> ...



Yaw or lateral acceleration sensor. It's under the drivers dash to the right of the steering wheel.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

Discussion with Atwood had me under the impression that UM has a swap file for the Haldex controller that bypasses everything but the ABS wheel speed signal. 

Might be worth contacting him.


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

vr6swap said:


> Discussion with Atwood had me under the impression that UM has a swap file for the Haldex controller that bypasses everything but the ABS wheel speed signal.
> 
> Might be worth contacting him.


This is interesting....


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

hey can't seem to find the tq for the angle drive > transmission bolts, does anyone know?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> hey can't seem to find the tq for the angle drive > transmission bolts, does anyone know?


The specs were on the 2nd link I posted. #21, 40Nm + 45° , always replace. http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...fts_differential_bevel_box_and_selector_rods/


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

wow. I'm clueless. Dunno how I missed that. My bad.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Pressed in new wheel bearings and hubs into the trailing arm, along with new rotors, R32 rear brakes, and power flex bushings.

Recommendations for rear pads + track? I've got a set of HP Plus but I'm not happy with them.










but, problems with the R trailing arm. it was rusted to hell - I got it cheap and decided to clean it up / work with it. bad decision lol. After I pressed in the wheel bearing, I slid the snap ring in, and when I let go of the pliers the casing cracked along the lip that holds the snap ring. Hard to explain- here's a photo:










Rust=1, Me=0.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Oh damn. That sucks. Good news though is eBay you can get them for like 70 bucks from east coast salvage


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Yah I found one local actually, very clean, $40. It's not too bad money wise but it slows my progress down. 

I'm waiting on my clutch / flywheel, but in the meantime I'm looking at the JDL exhaust manifold and the available space for a downpipe, and I see trouble. 

Anyone with a JDL manifold and AWD out there? Do you have a pic of your down pipe? It looks tight between the manifold + angle drive.... 


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

Check out my thread, I can also send you some photos...is is SUPER close, I have about 1/4" Inbetween the propshaft balancer and the downpipe, about the same with clearance to the firewall/tunnel and the subframe


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

@fouckhest thanks for all the help

re: R32 haldex UM flash- got in contact with Jeff & he said the UM Haldex flash uses all OEM required signals.

random DRP 02M transmission pic-


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

anyone with 02M BT VR6.... what is your experience with Southbend clutch?

Reason I ask is, this will be my first southbend. First, they sent me the wrong flywheel in the kit (stg 3 drag), and then I waited a month for a replacement, and the replacement I got looks like this: (rusty, and full of some kind of rubber-ey goop which took brake cleaner to kinda sorta get off- gotta clean it more)










I'm sure it's not a big deal functional wise.... but every. single. other. flywheel. I've. ever. bought. usually looks brand frikkin new machined / shiny /nice. As was the original flywheel that I received with the kit. Does not inspire confidence, considering this will be the time when I plan to crank up the boost.

Dunno. Just doesn't sit right with me. Now I'm having second thoughts. Who has actual experience here? Any comment?


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## fouckhest (May 22, 2003)

SBC seems to be a total love or hate with the r32 crowd

i ran a SBC when i was BT 1.8t AWD in the other car and it was great; actually ran that same clutch in the diesel as well. however when i pulled it apart the pressure plate had some broken springs.

they rebuilt my PP and i purchased a new flywheel for my R32 when i did the turbo; so far it has been good; it will slip a little on a cold morning when the clutch is still cold, but held 458awhp on the dyno.....i think my PP is only rated to like 400ftlbs, so i know i am on borrowed time.


when it lets go i plan to buy an FX850 with a steel flywheel


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

Have SB in my MK4 VRT when it was FWD and now that it's AWD. Also have one in my MK2 VRT. No issues for me! :thumbup:


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## 03Aku87 (Nov 28, 2010)

I have the same South Bend Stg 3 Drag sprung disc clutch. Works great. I've had 0 issues with it. I am having some weird issues after my motor rebuilt but I think it's more slave related and not the clutch itself. My buddy actually knows the guy who works for South Bend so I was able to message him directly on FB and chat with him before I ultimate decided on that particular clutch.

When I got the kit everything appeared to be in good order, nothing was dirty or scratched and I got the correct parts first go around. Unfortunate that you got the wrong part, but no company is perfect and things like that are bound to happen I'd wager. As long as there is no functional defect on the parts I think you'll be happy with it.


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

My SBC has been good. I had an issue a couple years back where the slave cylinder was over extending itself and caused a failure. SB warrantied everything no questions asked.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> re: R32 haldex UM flash- got in contact with Jeff & he said the UM Haldex flash uses all OEM required signals.


Sorry, wasn't trying to mis inform. 

I deleted his text about it long ago. Would have to guess the Haldex swap software was a UM project that didn't go anywhere. 

Standalone controllers aren't much more than a flash program for the factory system anyway.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

fouckhest said:


> they rebuilt my PP and i purchased a new flywheel for my R32 when i did the turbo





gdt said:


> Have SB in my MK4 VRT when it was FWD and now that it's AWD. Also have one in my MK2 VRT. No issues for me! :thumbup:





03Aku87 said:


> I have the same South Bend Stg 3 Drag sprung disc clutch. Works great. I've had 0 issues with it.





DarkSideGTI said:


> My SBC has been good. I had an issue a couple years back where the slave cylinder was over extending itself and caused a failure. SB warrantied everything no questions asked.


thanks guys!!! these comments give me warm fuzzy feelings about my new clutch. I was going to go with a twin disk..... but with the AWD- budget wouldn't allow it. When the SB eventually lets go I'll be going twin me thinks.



vr6swap said:


> Sorry, wasn't trying to mis inform.


nah I'm sure everyone knows you were trying to help, please keep it coming!

this weekend I'm gonna grind. hard. I wanna drive this thing. now. expect a big update soon :beer:

BTW- if you haven't seen 13 hours: The Secret Soldiers of Benghazi - stop what you're doing, and go watch it. It's amazing. :thumbup: (my buddy is a PMC- mucho respect)


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## Mr.loops (May 27, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> anyone with 02M BT VR6.... what is your experience with Southbend clutch?
> 
> Reason I ask is, this will be my first southbend. First, they sent me the wrong flywheel in the kit (stg 3 drag), and then I waited a month for a replacement, and the replacement I got looks like this: (rusty, and full of some kind of rubber-ey goop which took brake cleaner to kinda sorta get off- gotta clean it more)
> 
> ...


I would imagine Southbend sprayed cosmoline on the flywheel to help prevent it from rusting. If that is in fact rust shown in your pic, then they didn't do a very good job on applying it


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

Ya it should be just the sealant. dont for get to clean it off with brake clean
I just sold my twin yesterday for $600 can


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

See the 3 bolts and 2 nuts on the propshaft?










I don't see these nuts anywhere on ETKA or etc. Are they OEM? If so, am I missing one?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...shaft-bolt&p=73744624&viewfull=1#post73744624

Sounds like that is normal.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

hmm interesting. so those nuts and washer are there for balancing purposes? seems a little odd.... but hey... I won't mess with it then.

also see (tech bulletin): http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1561609

ty Jo|\|


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

I don't remember seeing that on mine


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

slight issue: remember the block breather I made.... I drilled a 1/2 NPT hole in the block, connected a pipe, and fed it to a catch can? Well, the angle drive sits much too close to the block for a fitting to work there - so I have to plug it up and find another solution to vent.

Question though: to seal the plug..... teflon tape, or liquid high temp sealant? what say you?


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## Gerg (Sep 15, 2006)

I'd consider permatex brand black pipe thread sealant over Teflon tape


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Question though: to seal the plug..... teflon tape, or liquid high temp sealant? what say you?


I would go with sealant, good high temperature sealant. 

I have not used it on a block but some have used high temperature JB weld. might be something to look in to. Either way you should be ok. Cleanliness of the area will play a bigger factor I think.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Ty guys. Went with Loctite 5770.










who else makes "the list"? 

FML 


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Ty guys. Went with Loctite 5770.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have a big yellow legal pad full of lists. And notes, and random chicken scratching about **** I don't even remember what it was for.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

vr6swap said:


> I have a big yellow legal pad full of lists. And notes, and random chicken scratching about **** I don't even remember what it was for.


lol exactly. if I don't write down the things I come across that need fixing, I'll probably forget about them (the little things always get ya). My list is bigger now tho.... for example I found this on the steering rack:

excessive pressure blew the fitting? It was an aluminum hose end....










you know me- always upgrade when stuff breaks (i.e. learn from the lessons of the past). Added an inline vent to let go of any excess pressure, and made a stainless hard line that should be much stronger.










aaaandddd I guess I messed up with this freeze plug as I see some coolant has been getting through.... so I got a new one and installed it this time with Loctite 5970. Also upgraded some of my old VEI sensors with the new digital ones.










trying to get the damn motor back in... but all these little things are eating up my time and pissing me off :banghead:


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> lol exactly. if I don't write down the things I come across that need fixing, I'll probably forget about them (the little things always get ya). My list is bigger now tho.... for example I found this on the steering rack:
> 
> excessive pressure blew the fitting? It was an aluminum hose end....
> 
> ...


how does your car track with the manual steering rack? I am having a hard time with the wider tires, 275's, ridiculously heavy at slow maneuvering at the pits and felt considerably heavier at speed. I have an R32 rack, is yours a standard mk4 rack?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

huichox4 said:


> how does your car track with the manual steering rack? I am having a hard time with the wider tires, 275's, ridiculously heavy at slow maneuvering at the pits and felt considerably heavier at speed. I have an R32 rack, is yours a standard mk4 rack?


at speed I like it a lot better manual- it may be my imagination but it feels like I have more "communication" through the wheel about the track / tires / brakes, when I use p/s that feeling is.... lacking. slow speed corners or maneuvering in the pits can be a bit of an issue, only if I have to maneuver in tight spots (which is rare) - but that's what the forearms are for 

i've got the standard mk4 rack

for me it's a pro / con kinda deal.... I'd rather have better road feel and also better control at speed- I dunno I find P/S to be jittery when going really fast, or especially when trail braking. Thats just me tho.. I'm sure for others that may not be the case..... and if I was auto-x ing I'd probably have P/S - but as it stands now I stick to circuit and occasionally drag (although after AWD I'll probably do a few more pulls than usual at the drag strip!)


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> at speed I like it a lot better manual- it may be my imagination but it feels like I have more "communication" through the wheel about the track / tires / brakes, when I use p/s that feeling is.... lacking. slow speed corners or maneuvering in the pits can be a bit of an issue, only if I have to maneuver in tight spots (which is rare) - but that's what the forearms are for
> 
> i've got the standard mk4 rack
> 
> for me it's a pro / con kinda deal.... I'd rather have better road feel and also better control at speed- I dunno I find P/S to be jittery when going really fast, or especially when trail braking. Thats just me tho.. I'm sure for others that may not be the case..... and if I was auto-x ing I'd probably have P/S - but as it stands now I stick to circuit and occasionally drag (although after AWD I'll probably do a few more pulls than usual at the drag strip!)


great thanks for the input, I will consider doing a quick test without it and see what happens. My car is mostly circuit racing and occasional drag. Auto X events I do very little now a days, mostly to test and do shake down on the setup when it changes.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Doing some DP "visualization" now. Does your down pipe go down to the right of the propshaft?










Also had to change around the WG tubes to clear the new DP path, so I made them more tight / concise. 

I've gotta change the turbo oil drain hard line now too, it doesn't clear the angle drive > block bracket 

The little things are eating up so much time ugh 

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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Doing some DP "visualization" now. Does your down pipe go down to the right of the propshaft?


mine goes down on the passenger side.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

huichox4 said:


> mine goes down on the passenger side.


Yupp mine as well. which i am guessing your referring to the right side correct?


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## gdt (Jan 5, 2012)

huichox4 said:


> mine goes down on the passenger side.


X3


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## jaswan (Mar 24, 2008)

WOW! 

it looks like you have made some "slight" alterations since the last time i viewed your thread. 

its looking good. great workmanship and no expense spared as usual 

Jason.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Ty guys, still deciding if I'm gonna use a 45/60 or 90 to sweep the DP down to the exhaust tunnel. Gotta stare at it some more. 

Hey Jason! How's your build going? Are you taking care of my old 6262!!!??

lol @ "slight" haha

got the "good stuff" today- if you want a high temp thread locker search no further- I swear by this stuff:













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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Good idea or bad idea to weld a threaded rod to this fitting to support the oil drain tube?










I was thinking I'd drill a small hole in the angle drive bracket and then bolt up the threaded rod to the bracket for support. 

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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

Why not weld a tab to the bracket, and use an adel clamp to support the tube?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Not confident the rubber would hold up under the manifold etc. Are you thinking I need some movement here, and hard mounting wouldn't be good?

Edit: just found these-

http://www.improvedracing.com/hose-...ting-clamps-for-an-hose-and-tubing-p-322.html

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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

It's usually not a good idea to solid mount a hard line. Especially one that might be subject to thermal expansion / contraction. 

I'm also looking at it from a " the simpler it is, the better it works" point of view.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

vr6swap said:


> I'm also looking at it from a " the simpler it is, the better it works" point of view.


I totally agree. I'll try it your way :thumbup:

here's how I routed the new turbo oil drain:



















this was leaking before, I don't think the sealant could keep up with the heat- so I welded it all around this time:




























that's the motor / trans sorted - electrical is next on the list!


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> this was leaking before, I don't think the sealant could keep up with the heat- so I welded it all around this time:


Aluminum flange + steel zinc plated fitting or is that the anodize turning brown?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Anodize turned brown


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> Anodize turned brown


Let me know next time , I can toss them in the batch and have the anodizing removed


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

Cheap store brand oven cleaner will strip anodizing. 

Follow up with a scotch brite pad and a wire brush.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

lol and I thought I was picky about the details ! Meh- unless you REALLY look in there no one is gonna see it, so I just left it raw. The main thing I care about is if it leaks - which it shouldn't anymore. 

Progress:

Radium AOS (air-oil separator), welded fittings to cast t-stat (courtesy of http://iabedindustries.com), misc hard lines here n there to clean up the bay as well.















































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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

About this ABS AWD jumper business..... where's the jumper that I have to move?










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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> About this ABS AWD jumper business..... where's the jumper that I have to move?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm guessing it's in the connector. Just a piece of wire between 2 or more pins. There are some abs coding options too, http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/VW_Golf_(1J)_Brake_Electronics_(MK60)


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

So I don't have to mess with this, and just change it in the ECU?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> So I don't have to mess with this, and just change it in the ECU?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No idea. Just going off what I can search. There is usually some required coding when swapping stuff is involved though.

Here is the wiring on the ABS pump/connector though. You may want to verify your setup.
http://i.imgur.com/xJyvn66.png

BFH(UK 3.2L) is the same as BJS(US 3.2L).


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I dunno I can't find anything on this.... my keywords must be sucking

Does anyone know what I have to do with the ABS? Just code it in the ECU or do I have to move a jumper or both or wha?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Here you go, a little more info to hopefully help you out


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

yep ty- I know all that info, but the only thing I'm not sure about is this "ABS jumper". I don't see any jumper on the ABS unit - where is it? what does it look like? how do I get to it?


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## Jo|\| (Jul 3, 2011)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> yep ty- I know all that info, but the only thing I'm not sure about is this "ABS jumper". I don't see any jumper on the ABS unit - where is it? what does it look like? how do I get to it?


Disassemble the cable that plugs into the pump and grab a depinning tool.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Ohhhh it's in the plug. 

I was looking at the ABS unit like a dodo. Sorry I was stuck in computer engineer mode, thinking of plastic jumpers on pins, not wire jumpers. :banged:

*EDIT: this step is NOT needed in my situation. When I moved the jumper the ABS unit gave me an incorrect coding error that I could not rectify. Once I changed the jumpers back to original position all was well, including the operation of AWD / Haldex. In my situation, all I needed to do was give the Haldex it's required inputs, fused power & ground. That's it. Big thanks to Jeff @ United Motorsport for helping me diagnose the issue.*











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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

It's going to be on the harness side of stuff. Not the controller itself


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

waiting on my new wavetrac rear diff 










Time to step up my trunk game (in progress)


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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> waiting on my new wavetrac rear diff
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Awesome, your going to love the wavetrac.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

Bada$$ setup man, really good looking!! one question though, why the fuel pressure gauge back there and not by the fuel pressure regulator up front? 

I am pretty sure that there might be a slightly different pressure at each end of that long fuel line.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

huichox4 said:


> Bada$$ setup man, really good looking!! one question though, why the fuel pressure gauge back there and not by the fuel pressure regulator up front?
> 
> I am pretty sure that there might be a slightly different pressure at each end of that long fuel line.


ty! oh there's definitely a difference- that's why I put my digital gauge sender on the FPR so I could monitor it in the cabin. I picked up some dual VEI gauges, so now I have oil temp (f) & oil pressure (psi), water temp (f) & fuel pressure (bar), then my old AEM wideband failsafe with boost / vacuum & AFR.

The mechanical gauge in the rear is just there for another fuel pressure reading, I needed to fill some space between the filter and the bulkhead fitting, and it matches the whole silver / black thing I got going on so why not.

I'm not just adding AWD and calling it a day- I'm constantly improving all aspects. Big tear downs just give me more excuses to fix things that I didn't like before :banghead:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

my new diff is here! I took vacation time this week to finish er up.... 










and yeah, it's tiny - but mighty! (I hope)


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## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

Keep us posted on how it feels with the rear diff. I have yet to add one to mine


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

thought I heard this was running and driving already?

how is the clutch break in going?


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

huichox4 said:


> thought I heard this was running and driving already?
> 
> how is the clutch break in going?


sorry I need to update the thread

was driving until a couple days ago, something let go in the prop shaft. have to investigate, but I think it's the joint in the front. Sometimes used parts don't pan out..... I;m guessing this is the case. Anyhow I gotta take a look, in the meantime I'll put some pics together and do some updates.


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> sorry I need to update the thread
> 
> was driving until a couple days ago, something let go in the prop shaft. have to investigate, but I think it's the joint in the front. Sometimes used parts don't pan out..... I;m guessing this is the case. Anyhow I gotta take a look, in the meantime I'll put some pics together and do some updates.


damn, sorry to hear. keep us posted.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

Soooo..... 2016 was (overall) REALLY bad for me. Good riddance 2016, i say. I tore my achilles tendon so I'll have a few more months to get that back to where I can work again... but in the meantime....

Here's a few pics from what was done in the summer (didn't get a chance to post).

new OEM bearings for the wavetrac rear diff










due to a slight design oversight I modified the end cap of the haldex to accommodate the wavetrac rear diff *(if purchasing new you will NOT need to do this, it's a direct fit - I purchased mine on pre-production runs which were all sent back & corrected - but I opted to keep my configuration as is)*



















wavetrac vs OEM










trimmed up this pipe so it's the perfect size to push the bearing and cap in - here are the measurements




























But, that part I cut off the housing was there as an oil baffle - as best I can tell. So I decided to upgrade / replace that function with a diff breather / overflow tank of sorts. found some old scrap aluminum tube and 1/4" plate, grabbed my tig welder, some taps + fittings.... and had some fun.



















took a while to find these- these are the brackets that hold the prop shaft up, they are located in the exhaust tunnel right below the shifter area




























haldex connector and some repair wires from VW










and everything where its supposed to be


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## huichox4 (Nov 8, 2004)

Good to see you are back man!! hopefully 2017 is the year you get to drive/race her more!


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## Jusa101 (Jan 22, 2014)

Any progress with this? Very informative and intresting build.


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

Great build, just finished reading through the thread. Was wondering why you switched to the Rothe manifold and if you could give some feed back on the fitment and performance.


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## mk4vrsix03 (Mar 7, 2004)

raguturbo said:


> Great build, just finished reading through the thread. Was wondering why you switched to the Rothe manifold and if you could give some feed back on the fitment and performance.


I dont think Rich logs into vortex anymore, but I can help. Fitment is great. Has provision for 1.8t iat sensor and vacuum ports. I can get you a manifold if you're interested.


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## shpoomana (Nov 8, 2020)

Hey guys!

I have just found this thread as I plan to build my VR6T engine myself, and I think this thread could be super handy IF I COULD SEE THE IMAGES!!

Does anyone have access to the images throughout this thread, or is the OP still active on the forums? I really want to get a hold of these!!

thanks in advance for your help 

-

Sam


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