# BFI - Clean Catch Crankcase Oil Separator - for 2.0T FSI!



## black forest ind (Oct 1, 2004)

Black Forest Industries is proud to announce the release of our newest product line: 

The Clean Catch Crankcase Oil Separator, the most advanced, most functional and best looking option to remove excess oil vapor from your PCV/Intake tract. 

One of the biggest concerns of the direct injection engine design - is what to do with crankcase vapor. As with all emissions compliant vehicles, the PCV gasses must be recirculated back into the intake tract. The problem with direct injection is that those latent oil vapor laden gasses then help with the process of carbon deposition on the intake valves. For many who have experienced this, you will be familiar with valves that look like this:


*Click the picture for pricing and info!*

All FSI Clean Catch catch cans utilize our new VAGPORT PCV connection system and come with pre-crimped #8 hoses, fittings, brackets and all necessary hardware for installation in minutes! Each Clean Catch FSI catch can is designed to fit under the factory airbox/intake as well as the factory "noise pipe"


----------



## zbeasty (May 24, 2011)

I'd love to buy one but have a problem because there is a charcoal canister right where yoo have mounted it. I'm also running an EVO MS intake so mounting it the other side is also a problem. Do you also have a block off for the hose that comes out of the back of the tappet cover than dumps right at the inlet of the turbo?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2005)

Unfortunately at this time we don't have a solution for cars with a charcoal canister (ie European and ROW cars), but we will look at it in the future.

I'm not following your second question entirely - the hose you talk about running from the valve cover to the turbo is integral to keeping the system a closed loop system. The can is plumbed into the internal passages and valleyways of the valve cover, the exit of which is the rear port on the valve cover. Without that hose it would no longer draw vacuum on the system.


----------



## zbeasty (May 24, 2011)

When I fitted my intake I noticed that there was also oil feeding out of the back line into the turbo inlet. Without adding this into the catch can system or blocking it off you are still going to have oil going into the inlet tract and will still have carbon build up on the valves.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2005)

zbeasty 

You are correct, it is still plumbed into the intake - this necessary in a closed system to create vacuum to allow the crancase to vent. The only way to completely remove the can from the intake path would be to set it up as a VTA (Vent To Atmosphere) can, which is possible, but raises some other problems (ie emissions compatibility) that make it not the right solution for every driver.


----------



## BaneGTI (Feb 25, 2004)

any shots of the inside baffles or of the can being emptied and where the opening is?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2005)

Bane here is an interior shot and a cutaway to show flow:



















As far as draining you can either do it from the -8 port at the bottom of the can, or you can unscrew the top and completely remove the can.


----------



## BaneGTI (Feb 25, 2004)

so the air appears to traveling throught the tube into the port then around one of the walls and slams into the other wall? Does this cause the oil/water to basically stick to the wall and slide down? not sure that i see what causes the filtering/catching of the catch can? Im not hating at all as i am not impressed with my 42DD can as it gets all gummed up inside in the filter discs. Just looking for a better option:beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2005)

Yes you are more or less correct - it is a modified cyclonic/vortex style can, ie the purpose of the baffles is to increase surface area to allow the incoming vapor to contact and condense. This method of separation negates the need for filters and perforated panels. The condensation effect traps most of the suspended vapor before it exits the can.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

:laugh:


----------



## BaneGTI (Feb 25, 2004)

was also reading a post on MKV.com, any input on running this can with the bsh mounts?:beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

BaneGTI said:


> was also reading a post on MKV.com, any input on running this can with the bsh mounts?:beer:


We don't have any firsthand experience with the BSH mounts and our Clean Catch products.
The Clean Catch is designed to work with the stock engine mounts. We do provide a spacer for those customers running a Clean Catch and a BFI motor mount. You may be able to use our spacer will BSH mounts, but we do not know the exact thickness of the BSH base plate to guarantee it to work.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

eace:


----------



## SorryIfarted (Mar 5, 2005)

Looks like a real quality product. But i cant stomach the price x_x


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

SorryIfarted said:


> Looks like a real quality product. ...


 It absolutely is. :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)




----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

*Promotion Has Expired*


----------



## Koprowski (Jan 31, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Bane here is an interior shot and a cutaway to show flow:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Wow that's a very expensive can, it looks externally nice, but, what's it's volume flow, oil particle separation size and percentage of exiting gas still contaminated with suspended oil particles ?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Koprowski said:


> Wow that's a very expensive can, it looks externally nice, but, what's it's volume flow, oil particle separation size and percentage of exiting gas still contaminated with suspended oil particles ?


The Can is not the bottleneck in flow - the hose, and more specifically the fittings and their associated joints are the restrictions of the system. That being said those joints in all of our fittings are capable of up to and above 6 cfm of flow - which exceeds the flow requirements of the PCV system, so flow is not an issue.

Since the gas is not homogeneous, (both water and oil vapor) it would be just a guess as to the oil particle size, but the separation is upwards of 80% and higher depending on the length of the hose runs to the can.


----------



## Koprowski (Jan 31, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> The Can is not the bottleneck in flow - the hose, and more specifically the fittings and their associated joints are the restrictions of the system. That being said those joints in all of our fittings are capable of up to and above 6 cfm of flow - which exceeds the flow requirements of the PCV system, so flow is not an issue.
> 
> Since the gas is not homogeneous, (both water and oil vapor) it would be just a guess as to the oil particle size, but the separation is upwards of 80% and higher depending on the length of the hose runs to the can.


Your can may not be a bottle neck, but it does play a vital role when considering volume flow (can size) and volume holding capacity! As you catch more oil, you reduce the available flowing volume capacity!

And as I look at your images, your drawing is different to your actual, in your drawing the incoming air is directed beyond your intended baffle wall, through a cut out, and I should guess from your indicating arrows, you expect the air flow to hit your second solid baffle wall, before exiting your can ?

Doesn't air always take the path of least resistance ?

Your actual cutaway image, shows that the incoming air will hit only 1 of the intended solid baffle plate walls, and then find the easiest least resistance path to exit, bypassing your second baffle plate solid wall altogether!

The incoming gas will be homogenous, your can will be collecting evacuated PCV gasses from cold right until the oil has reached it's optimal working temperature, enabling it to start to burn off condensed water vapour from heat cycling, so for those that do short trips, their engines oil will never reach optimal working temperature, hence why we see emulsified oil mix in the oil cap and in the camshaft cover, and then people start assuming they may have a blown head gasket!

How can you guess upwards of 80% particle separation, when you have no way of passing the incoming air through a filtration medium (coalescing) ?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks for the Black Friday orders everyone! Promo has ended!
We received hundreds of orders and are doing our best to ship them promptly.
Please understand there may be a delay on some orders.
Check your 'Order Status' link provided in your original e-mail receipt.
Thanks!


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Friday Video Bump..

Essen Motorshow- Germany 2011 from Black Forest on Vimeo.


Full Essen Coverage Here


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

eace:


----------



## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


>


I just bought mine this week but I missed this. Boo:thumbdown:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

*Holiday Promotion Has Expired*













Donate by clicking HERE


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Happy Holidays! :snowcool:


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

$430? yikes


----------



## black forest ind (Oct 1, 2004)

:wave:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Our New Year Promotion has ended. Thanks for everyone's orders! :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

eace:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Thanks for the







's on Facebook everyone!
A winner of our contest has been chosen and contacted via Facebook. Check your inboxes!


----------



## Kelion (Apr 2, 2011)

Any thoughts on an air/oil separator, that returns the oil back to the pan? So eliminating the need to dump it. A benefit in a cold weather climate(NoDak). I believe I seen one from BSH but that was for TSI motor not FSI. 

http://store.crawfordperformance.com/store/products/522

This is obviously not for our cars, but is the idea I would MUCH rather have than one that needs constant attention(monitoring for how full it is) or constant dumping like in a winter condition so it doesn't turn into a block of ice over night.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Kelion said:


> Any thoughts on an air/oil separator, that returns the oil back to the pan? ...


The problem with running the catch can back to your oil pan in a street driven vehicle is the amount of moisture that would be going back into your engine.
On a racecar, that's driven wide open, this is not an issue. In addition, oil is changed more frequently on race cars.


----------



## Kelion (Apr 2, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> The problem with running the catch can back to your oil pan in a street driven vehicle is the amount of moisture that would be going back into your engine.


Now correct me if I'm wrong or inform me, I'm just trying to understand so I can make a purchase. But moisture is everywhere, if there is air there is some amount of moisture in it. Moisture isn't the reason I would be getting a can/separator, oil in the intake charge is the reason we should have these. The moisture will eventually evaporate somewhere along the lines, but oil on my intake valves doesn't get cleaned off due to the 2.0T and it's direct injection. And having moisture collected in a can would be good, except in Jan here where our winters sometimes get to 40 below, before the wind chill factor. That would(and correct me if I'm wrong) make the can useless if I didn't empty it continually.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

A catch can that empties to your oil pan is not ideal for a street driven vehicles. 
The can not only catches oil vapors, but as a consequence of the design water vapor will accumulate in the catch can as well.
If this water was recirculated back into your oil pan, it would pollute the oil and reduce its ability to properly lubricate your engine.
Routine emptying of our Clean Catch products is required in order for the product to work correctly and successfully reduce oil vapor blow-by from making its way back into your intake tract.


----------



## Kelion (Apr 2, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> A catch can that empties to your oil pan is not ideal for a street driven vehicles.
> The can not only catches oil vapors, but as a consequence of the design water vapor will accumulate in the catch can as well.
> If this water was recirculated back into your oil pan, it would pollute the oil and reduce its ability to properly lubricate your engine.
> Routine emptying of our Clean Catch products is required in order for the product to work correctly...


Is the Air/Oil Separator suitable for a stock/daily driver?- Yes... You can pull the intercooler off your new car with only 500 miles on it and find oil inside of it. The purpose of the AOS is to remove this oil from the intake system to lessen the possibility of detonation which is the main cause of broken ring lands on the stock pistons. As you increase your HP, the amount of blow by passing through your breather system increases as well. This scenario also increases the need for our AOS.

A catch can needs to be emptied of its hazardous waste on a regular basis. Our AOS needs ZERO maintenance. A catch can emits the unpleasant smell of the crankcase fumes. Our AOS doesn't smell and is emissions friendly. Most catch can systems end up leaking or spewing oil in/on your engine bay while our AOS keeps everything clean and tidy.

Also with oil not being removed from the pan, there is no worry of running low on oil whatsoever...also I don't personally know about the smell issue and maybe its more directed at VTA cans, but it's a good point nonetheless.

An regarding the moisture theory there is this:

3. What causes the yellow gunk? This is a mixture of oil and water. Usually when the water in the engine heats up it vaporizes and makes its way out the breather system. If it stays in vapor form it will make its way out the top of the AOS and into the intake. We have found from our cold weather customers that condensation is occurring inside our AOS as it is colder than the engine. This condensation is mixing with the oil in the AOS causing the yellow gunk. To fix this issue we have made a cold weather version that incorporates a heater inside the AOS to keep the AOS at the same temperature as the engine. With them being the same temperature, condensation will not occur leaving the water vapor to flow out the top of the AOS and into the intake system. 

Now these replies are from a STi forum, but the physics and functionality are the same

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

No more koozies!


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

Kelion said:


> Is the Air/Oil Separator suitable for a stock/daily driver?- Yes... You can pull the intercooler off your new car with only 500 miles on it and find oil inside of it. The purpose of the AOS is to remove this oil from the intake system to lessen the possibility of detonation which is the main cause of broken ring lands on the stock pistons. As you increase your HP, the amount of blow by passing through your breather system increases as well. This scenario also increases the need for our AOS.
> 
> A catch can needs to be emptied of its hazardous waste on a regular basis. Our AOS needs ZERO maintenance. A catch can emits the unpleasant smell of the crankcase fumes. Our AOS doesn't smell and is emissions friendly. Most catch can systems end up leaking or spewing oil in/on your engine bay while our AOS keeps everything clean and tidy.
> 
> ...


thought you contacted them, now it sounds like you ARE "them"... :thumbdown: :screwy:

cool pic, terrible beer! :beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Krieger said:


> cool pic, terrible beer! :beer:


The Koozies fit all makes and models. :beer:


----------



## 64Bettle (Apr 24, 2011)

excuse my ignorance but this is the same as a traditional catch can yes?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)




----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Our Show Season Kick-Off Promotion has ended.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

eace:


----------



## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

I would love to buy this Clean Catch Can since IMO it's the best looking on all the market!... The bad thing is that my car came with a Charcoal Canister! Do you have any application or solution for this?


----------



## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Bump!


----------



## black forest ind (Oct 1, 2004)

BETOGLI said:


> I would love to buy this Clean Catch Can since IMO it's the best looking on all the market!... The bad thing is that my car came with a Charcoal Canister! Do you have any application or solution for this?


 We are working on it, but its going to be some time before we expect it to be available. While this is for the rest of world cars everything outside the U.S. has a canister.


----------



## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

black forest ind said:


> We are working on it, but its going to be some time before we expect it to be available. While this is for the rest of world cars everything outside the U.S. has a canister.


 Thanks for letting me know this! And for sure I'll buy two of them once they're realized! :thumbup::thumbup::beer:


----------



## webcrawlr (Oct 24, 2006)

For the "average" customer what do you expect drain intervals to be?


----------



## black forest ind (Oct 1, 2004)

webcrawlr said:


> For the "average" customer what do you expect drain intervals to be?


Unfortunately it varies a lot depending on the driver and their surrounding climate. At the very least you should check it at every oil change if not sooner. If the dipstick reads full, dump it. :beer:


----------



## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

Call me a noob, but I have a question. 

On the stock pcv it dumps the crank case pressure into the intake manifold, correct? With the catch can setup the intake manifold is capped off. After the oil is seperated the pressure looks to go back into the valve cover. Where does it go after that? Why cap the intake manifold? My main question is, where does the crankcase pressure go after the oil is seperated?

Total catch can noob and trying to wrap my head around it. Thanks :beer: :beer:


----------



## black forest ind (Oct 1, 2004)

bryangb said:


> Call me a noob, but I have a question.
> 
> On the stock pcv it dumps the crank case pressure into the intake manifold, correct? With the catch can setup the intake manifold is capped off. After the oil is seperated the pressure looks to go back into the valve cover. Where does it go after that? Why cap the intake manifold? My main question is, where does the crankcase pressure go after the oil is seperated?
> 
> Total catch can noob and trying to wrap my head around it. Thanks :beer: :beer:


The 2.0T FSI has two pcv ports - that alternate direction depending on load and vacuum/boost level. Our system blocks off the pcv port to the manifold - or in reality - redirects it back through the port in the valve cover to the rear pcv port. That way all pcv gasses pass through the catch can before entering the intake tract. It also allows the pcv to maintain constant draw.


----------



## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

black forest ind said:


> The 2.0T FSI has two pcv ports - that alternate direction depending on load and vacuum/boost level. Our system blocks off the pcv port to the manifold - or in reality - redirects it back through the port in the valve cover to the rear pcv port. That way all pcv gasses pass through the catch can before entering the intake tract. It also allows the pcv to maintain constant draw.


Where does the rear pcv port dump?


----------



## black forest ind (Oct 1, 2004)

bryangb said:


> Where does the rear pcv port dump?


The rear port attaches to the intake plumbing just above the turbo.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)




----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Our Waterfest Promotion has ended. Thanks for all the orders. :thumbup:


----------



## MissUnderstood (Nov 9, 2011)

What are you guys doing with the rear hose off the valve cover. Doesn't that go right to the intake?


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

No more sunglasses. Thanks for all the orders!


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Our H2O Promotion has ended!


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

wheres your mk4 / 1.8t catch can setups...:sly:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Slimjimmn said:


> wheres your mk4 / 1.8t catch can setups...:sly:


Soon. We have a prototype coming and we'll have it installed on my 1.8t GLI.


----------



## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Soon. We have a prototype coming and we'll have it installed on my 1.8t GLI.


I can install a prototype on my car ;-)


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)




----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

eace:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Our Black Friday Sale was a huge hit! Thanks everyone!


----------



## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

... I need one... But my car has a Charcoal Canister!


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Two weeks and it still hasn't shipped :thumbdown:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

crew219 said:


> Two weeks and it still hasn't shipped :thumbdown:


 We have been communicating with customers that were impacted by component delay and now, to the best of my knowledge, all Clean Catch orders have already shipped. 
If you have not received your tracking number via e-mail, please send me a PM with your information and I will investigate the whereabouts of your order.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We have been communicating with customers that were impacted by component delay and now, to the best of my knowledge, all Clean Catch orders have already shipped.
> If you have not received your tracking number via e-mail, please send me a PM with your information and I will investigate the whereabouts of your order.


 I was sent tracking info on the 3rd which didn't move until you delivered it to USPS on the 5th. 

Placed the order at 12:06AM on black friday. Should have been one of the first ones sent out. I received no such communication until I called in after a week of not receiving a tracking number. Was promised that my order would ship within the next two days. Took a week from that call for it to ship. 

Dave


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

crew219 said:


> I was sent tracking info on the 3rd which didn't move until you delivered it to USPS on the 5th.
> 
> Placed the order at 12:06AM on black friday. Should have been one of the first ones sent out. I received no such communication until I called in after a week of not receiving a tracking number. Was promised that my order would ship within the next two days. Took a week from that call for it to ship.
> 
> Dave


 Dave, 

USPS picks up from our facility, so the package should have been picked up same day, or next business day. Keep in mind USPS tracking information is not as "real-time" as, say, UPS. Maybe there's just a delay on the information they're providing via their website. I couldn't say for sure without looking at it. 

We were in contact with all Clean Catch orders throughout the delay, explaining why orders were not being processing immediately. If your order was not on the compiled list and you did not receive these notifications, I do apologize. By no means were we intentionally withholding information from you. 

Demand exceeded our projected targets, which caused minor delays from the start. In addition to that, we also encountered a production delay on a key component of the Clean Catch system; this also added to order delays. All of this was communicated to those customers, but again, if your order was not on our compiled list and you did not receive this information via e-mail, I truly apologize. 

We appreciate your business and I welcome you to e-mail or PM me if you have any additional concerns about this purchase, or future purchases. 

Pete 
BFI


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Our Holiday Special has expired!


----------



## DUTCHswift (Feb 22, 2012)

Koprowski said:


> Your can may not be a bottle neck, but it does play a vital role when considering volume flow (can size) and volume holding capacity! As you catch more oil, you reduce the available flowing volume capacity!


No, this is not the case. As long as the volume of the empty space in the can is greater than the cross sectional area of the lines, air flow restriction will not be hindered. :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

*promotion expired*


----------



## SETXVDUBER (Dec 11, 2013)

Rereading this after a few days.....why do you refuse to answer these questions? It seems like you would want to seperate your product from all the rest..

There are at least 5 companies making catch cans that I can think of off the top of my head. None of them do the job that we would hope they do. Not to mention they are ungodly expensive. Your product doesnt even make sense. You have a picture and a diagram. Both different. Which is it? I'm going to assume that the picture of the cheaply tac welded aluminum 'catch can' is what you are actually peddling. 

Now, of course you are just a salesman. I get that. But at least be informed about your product..


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

SETXVDUBER said:


> Rereading this after a few days.....why do you refuse to answer these questions? It seems like you would want to seperate your product from all the rest..
> 
> There are at least 5 companies making catch cans that I can think of off the top of my head. None of them do the job that we would hope they do. Not to mention they are ungodly expensive. Your product doesnt even make sense. You have a picture and a diagram. Both different. Which is it? I'm going to assume that the picture of the cheaply tac welded aluminum 'catch can' is what you are actually peddling.
> 
> Now, of course you are just a salesman. I get that. But at least be informed about your product..


I'm sorry, what question(s) are we refusing to answer?

Our product separates itself from the rest because we use only the highest quality materials available - powder coated aluminum can, high flow #8 braided and sport-crimped hoses and hose ends, along with in-house designed CNC machined PCV Port adapter and a billet intake manifold block off. We could have cheapened it up and used inferior connectors and components, but we only want to offer the best. 

If the product doesn't suit you, that's fine. No one is forcing you to purchase it. Not sure what warrants the negative tone.


----------



## SETXVDUBER (Dec 11, 2013)

Your can may not be a bottle neck, but it does play a vital role when considering volume flow (can size) and volume holding capacity! As you catch more oil, you reduce the available flowing volume capacity!

And as I look at your images, your drawing is different to your actual, in your drawing the incoming air is directed beyond your intended baffle wall, through a cut out, and I should guess from your indicating arrows, you expect the air flow to hit your second solid baffle wall, before exiting your can ?

Doesn't air always take the path of least resistance ?

Your actual cutaway image, shows that the incoming air will hit only 1 of the intended solid baffle plate walls, and then find the easiest least resistance path to exit, bypassing your second baffle plate solid wall altogether!

The incoming gas will be homogenous, your can will be collecting evacuated PCV gasses from cold right until the oil has reached it's optimal working temperature, enabling it to start to burn off condensed water vapour from heat cycling, so for those that do short trips, their engines oil will never reach optimal working temperature, hence why we see emulsified oil mix in the oil cap and in the camshaft cover, and then people start assuming they may have a blown head gasket!

How can you guess upwards of 80% particle separation, when you have no way of passing the incoming air through a filtration medium (coalescing) ? 


^^^^^^^^.

You answered all the unimportant questions but what about this one? I'd loved to find a legal alternative to running a completely stock vent system. But it doesnt seem that there is much research behind any of these catch cans. Thats all.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

SETXVDUBER said:


> You answered all the unimportant questions but what about this one? I'd loved to find a legal alternative to running a completely stock vent system. But it doesnt seem that there is much research behind any of these catch cans. Thats all.


Send us an e-mail and we'll be glad to answer any technical questions you have: [email protected]


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

​


----------



## audria (May 30, 2018)

Seriously look at it. Would you just look at it!? Our Clean Catch Oil Separator functions as good as it looks and without removing the factory PCV. This gives you multiple lines of defense against carbon build up while elevating the look of your engine bay rather than detracting from it. Our brand new Version 2 design features a perforated cylindrical baffle and new upgraded heat resistant braided hoses for an extremely OE+ look. Still the same great price starting at $299  #blackforestindustries​

​


----------

