# Tint on Eos



## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

Has anyone heard of problems with tinted windows on the Eos? Specifically, a problem when you leave the tinted windows UP with the top DOWN? I have a problem where the sun's reflection on the interior of the window appears to have caused excessive heat to the door panal, resulting in damage. Any thoughts?


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## Shaka (May 20, 2001)

*Re: Tint on Eos (mliggett)*

Have never heard of your issues but I dont see why you couldnt tint the windows on an EOS. Any quality shop can do it. I've also noticed a few ebay sales of pre-cut EOS tints, but I have heard bad things buying pre-cuts.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Tint on Eos (mliggett)*

What is your tint %?


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## grubber (Aug 19, 2006)

*Re: Tint on Eos (aflaedge)*

I have had tintend windows on my EOS for 2 months now - no problems as of yet


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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

30% tint on Eos. Tint was put on in my garage (a mobile company). Car was backed-out to use space to tint a 2nd car. Windows were up (to dry) with the top down. Car was in sun 20-40 min when damage was noted. Sun reflected off of INTERIOR of window (thru the open top) and melted the vinyl on the door panel.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (mliggett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mliggett* »_ Car was in sun 20-40 min when damage was noted. Sun reflected off of INTERIOR of window (thru the open top) and melted the vinyl on the door panel.

Can you post a picture of it? That's a little hard to believe that the interior of a convertible melted after being in the sun for about ½ hour.


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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

Hard to believe is right. I was shocked; the tint guy appeared shocked; my neighbors were shocked. I have pictures and will try to attach when I get back home Saturday.
It looks like a laser melted/cut a 6" line across the top. An additional 8 - 10" line was heated, but didn't cut all the way through.


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## riverripper (Jul 21, 2005)

Did you watch your tint guy do the work? If he was using a heat gun was it possible he caused the damage?


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (riverripper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *riverripper* »_Did you watch your tint guy do the work? If he was using a heat gun was it possible he caused the damage?


I'd bet on that in a second.


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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

At first look, I thought the tint guy cut it with his razor, but once I closed the door the sunlight reflection was directed back to the damage and again heated the vinyl to a point that was extremely hot to the touch.
I had watched the tint guy do the install and I closely inspected everything prior to pulling the car out of the garage.
I'll try to post a photo Saturday and see what you guys think.
Thanks for your feedback.


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## IchLiebeVWs (Oct 11, 2006)

*Re: Tint on Eos (mliggett)*

I have 20% on my black on black Eos and have not had any problems but then again we have not have the high heat you have


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_Can you post a picture of it? That's a little hard to believe that the interior of a convertible melted after being in the sun for about ½ hour.

No, not hard to believe at all. I once parked my motorcycle in front of a large commercial garage door that had been 'tinted' with reflective film. When I came back (about a half an hour later) there was *smoke *rising from the vinyl seat cover of the motorcycle - the vinyl had totally melted, and the cover was destroyed. The cause of the problem was that one of the (plastic) windows on the garage door was slightly concave, and it was focusing the bright sunlight right onto the seat of the motorcycle.
If the tinting material used on the car was reflective in any way, I can easily accept that the curved car window (convex on the inside) would concentrate sunlight in one spot and this would cause harm. This is why OEM window tints are never, ever reflective.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tint on Eos (mliggett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mliggett* »_Has anyone heard of problems with tinted windows on the Eos?

First question: Where are the radio / remote unlocking antennas located on the Eos? We have had a whole pile of problems arising from folks tinting the back window of the Phaeton. All of the car antennas (about 9 of them) are built into the rear glass of the Phaeton, and if the tinting material used has any metal content whatsoever, it totally screws up the performance of all the antennas (AM, FM, TV, keyless entry, phone, GPS, parking heater, etc.).
Michael


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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

Here's a couple of photos of the damage.








http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o225/mliggett/Eos/DSC00317.jpg[img]
[img]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o225/mliggett/Eos/DSC00313.jpg[img]


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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)




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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

*Re: (mliggett)*

I've had no problems with the radio or remotes. I'm not sure where the antenna is for the FM/AM radio or keyless entry, but there is an antenna built into the windshield in the area surrounding the windshield-mounted rearview mirror. However, I'm not sure if this is the radio antenna. My Eos also has Sirius radio, and I'm told that the Sirius antenna is integrated with the rear trunk lid.


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## just-jean (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (mliggett)*

ouch








i'm a strickly stock kind of girl.
.........another reason why.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (mliggett)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mliggett* »_Here's a couple of photos of the damage.

That looks exactly like what happened to my motorcycle seat, except that the damage to the motorcycle seat was in a round patch about 4 inches across.
It's quite clear from the shape of the damaged area on your car (exactly parallel to the window glass) that the sun reflected off of the film on the inside of the window glass, and was focused by the concave film directly onto the melted area.
Darn sorry that it happened to you. Thanks, though, for your courtesy in sharing the photos with us.
Michael


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## Turbocrazy (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I'm not calling BS, cause it definatley seems weird no matter how it happened. But it just seems odd that the window tint could cause this kind of focalized damage. I can understand the shape of a conacve material and using reflective tint, but it just seems really out there (again, not discrediting; just looking for answers). 
Here's where I am puzzled. Even with a concave shape, any light or waves bounced off the surface are perpendicular to that paricular spot. It would seem that light hitting the concave inside shape of the window would cause a dispersed pattern, maybe getting generally hot or burning a round configuration like the other poster mentioned; but not something focused to a couple millimeters following the curved shape of the door panel. Again, I don't know what happened but it is very odd. I would definitely ask the person who performed the work more questions.


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## just-jean (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (Turbocrazy)*

haven't you ever melted anything as a kid when your parents wouldn't give you matches? sun is a powerful thing. glass gives it direction.


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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

I agree it's difficult to believe that the sunlight focus would get hot enough to cut through the material -- particuarly since it did it in such a short period of time. But I assure you, the material across the entire door panal was quite hot. If you notice in photo 1, there is an line to the right (forward) of the cut. That line is a thinned spot in the vinyl that was extremely hot. I'm sure that if it had set another 10 min, it would have cut through the entire length of the light-focused area.
By the way, under the vinyl is a material that appears to be a wood composite. It too was hot under the cut. I live in Arizona, and I wonder what would have happened if this had been a 115 degree summer day. A hard one to explain to the insurance company, I'm sure.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (mliggett)*

Here's a photo that shows the damage that sun reflecting off of a tinted window on a garage door did to my motorcycle when I parked the moto in front of the door. It's an old photo, taken in 2001 when a 600 megapixel camera was considered hot stuff, hence the poor picture quality. The material that Honda uses to cover motorcycle seats is very similar to the material used for interior trim on cars.
Michael
*Damage from Sun Reflections*


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ It's an old photo, taken in 2001 when a *600 megapixel* camera was considered hot stuff, hence the poor picture quality. 
Michael


600 megapixels







I don't think that would cause a poor picture. Must have been dust on the lense


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## just-jean (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (owr084)*

i believe a megabyte can eat a megapixel------this is like a cell phone camera today. some of the new phones still only have 1-2MB
ask bjorngra----he seems to be the resident eos site photographer







of which i am very thankful


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (owr084)*

Maybe I got my units of measure wrong... I think it was 600 *kilo*pixels (0.6 megapixels) - anyway, it didn't have very many pixels in it, and it only stored about 25 photos. But, it was the leading edge back in 2001, and cost me about $600 then.








Michael


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (mliggett)*

I was looking at my car earlier today, and ther was definatlely a reflection in that same spot from the window, with the top down. I have no (aftermarket) tint on my car...


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: (mliggett)*

Maybe the problem may have been caused by the dark surfaces absorbing more heat than they could handle.


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## mliggett (Oct 25, 2006)

*Re: (cb391)*

Just an update... VW agreed to authorize warrantee replacement of the door panel. They say they want to send it off for testing. That might be true, or could just be lip service, but at least they've agreed to do the right thing and cover it under warranttee. I've been waiting on the part for 5 weeks (apparently it's on a slow boat), but considering that they initially refused to cover it, I guess I shouldn't complain.
Just a warning: If you have tinted windows, keep them down when you have the top down this summer.


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (mliggett)*

That would have been ridiculous for VW not to cover that. What, you can put tint on every other car in the world, but an Eos, and that is somehow not a deffect of the Eos?
Anyway can you tell us whether the tint you had put on was metalic, what color it was, etc. I'd like to put some tint on mine, but I need to know it won't do that before I do, and other users hadn't had that problem when tinting their cars. 
Anyone else want to chime in on tint they have had good success with. And by success, I mean it keeps the sun out AND doesn't destroy the interior of the car


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_That would have been ridiculous for VW not to cover that. What, you can put tint on every other car in the world, but an Eos, and that is somehow not a defect of the Eos?

Hi Giles:
Actually, I disagree quite strongly with you on this one. I think it was very gracious of VW to agree to replace the door panel. There is no design fault of any kind with the vehicle. The owner put a reflective film on the inside of a concave surface. The reflection of the sun coming off the film was concentrated in one spot, and it burned through the covering of the door panel.
If you put two Eos side by side on that day, one that was pure stock, exactly the way it left the factory, and the other the one that had the reflective tinting film installed on it, and the only one that encountered problems was the one with the aftermarket film on it, what conclusion would you come to with respect to responsibility for the damage?
C'mon, let's not forget that as adults, we have an obligation to take responsibility for our own actions, regardless of how hard the thousands of ambulance-chasing tort lawyers in America try to convince us otherwise.
Michael


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

As they have to be responsible for designing a door/window combination that focuses light on a piece of vinyl. If the same tint is used in other cars with similar application, it is a defect in the design of the car, not the tint. As I have stated above, the window/door combination focuses light on the exact spot on the door when it is stock.
What you are saying is like suggesting Pinto owners were at fault for driving their cars where people could rear-end them causing their cars to explode, instead of it being a design flaw in the car that caused the fires.
As far as I know, the OP has never said the tint was more reflective than any other tint on the market. Tinting windows could also by no means be said to be beyond the normal boundaries of acceptable use (unlike say chipping an engine). 
I would suggest that the reason they agreed to the repairs and are interested in testing the material, is that they are concerned that their material is under-designed for the application. If they were just trying to placate him, they would have just replaced the door, and nothing further.
Giles


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*

I suppose VW should pay for someone's ticket if they are caught with too dark of film on the window, because VW designed a window that allowed the film to stick? This is one of the risks that one may take when they purchase after market products. There is no way VW can test every possible scenario that may exist in the world.


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## dbaps (Sep 2, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Ambulance chasing tort lawyers in America? Must be a Toronto/Zurich misrepresentation of how the law works in our great republic.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (dbaps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dbaps* »_Ambulance chasing tort lawyers in America? Must be a Toronto/Zurich misrepresentation of how the law works in our great republic.

I'd be honored if our "great" republic would learn to take the moral high road that exists in other countries, and I am glad we have a moderator that reminds us of this.


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (flheat)*

The fact that a car company can design a window/door combination that focuses light/heat on material with a questionable heat resistance can in no way be compared to a person breaking the motor vehicle laws in his or her region.
I had politely ignored the inflammatory 'lawsuit happy Americans' comment because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion. Nobody is talking about suing anyone. 
I am simply saying that if you take 10 different convertibles, put the same tint on all ten, and the Eos is the only one with a melted door panel, it is a design defect in the Eos, and is not the person who put the tint on the car's fault. There is and should be a reasonable expectation that you can tint your windows without the windows melting your door panel.
Perhaps there are not so many people that tint their windows in Canada, but in the southern states, it is a veritable imperative if you don't want your car interior to self-combust in the summer time.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_The fact that a car company can design a window/door combination that focuses light/heat on material with a questionable heat resistance ...

It is this in combination with aftermarket reflective film that caused this.

_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_..can in no way be compared to a person breaking the motor vehicle laws in his or her region...

They can be compared, both are redirecting blame due to owner's actions.

_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_I had politely ignored the inflammatory 'lawsuit happy Americans' comment because it has nothing whatsoever to do with the discussion. Nobody is talking about suing anyone...

It's the mentality that "we" have of never being wrong, someone else is always to blame.

_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_I am simply saying that if you take 10 different convertibles, put the same tint on all ten, and the Eos is the only one with a melted door panel, it is a design defect in the Eos, and is not the person who put the tint on the car's fault. There is and should be a reasonable expectation that you can tint your windows without the windows melting your door panel.
.

When you are done with your scientific comparison results, please report your findings, until then it is a hypothesis. In the interim, let us use common sense. A convertible requires special care.

_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_
Perhaps there are not so many people that tint their windows in Canada, but in the southern states, it is a veritable imperative if you don't want your car interior to self-combust in the summer time.

I live in Florida and have owned 4 convertibles and never have had the need to prevent one from self-combusting; however, I stow my sunglasses responsibly out of the way so the concave lenses do not melt my interior plastic.


_Modified by flheat at 8:35 PM 12-21-2006_


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (flheat)*

I'm sorry. Where did you say you saw that the tint was reflective? The OP never said that, only that he used 30% tint. And as I keep repeating, the windows reflect the exact same pattern stock.
The two examples can not be compared in the slightest. Your argument is akin to saying you can equate a Great Dane to a Chihuahua because they are both dogs. There is no reasonable expectation that you can break your local motor vehicle laws. So why would you blame the car manufacturer for your ticket, unless the car was sold stock so that it would break the law?
Your argument seems to imply that you believe there is no reasonable expectation that you can apply tint to your car without damaging it. This is, especially in south Florida (where i also have a home), an absurd proposition. Fully 90% of the cars there are tinted at least 20%. Let's take the argument beyond south Florida. People have been tinting windows for more than 40 years. Even stock windows are tinted slightly. To state that one couldn't reasonably expect this car to function like any other in that regard is indefensible. You say use common sense, well I say common sense would tell you that you can tint a window without it damaging your car.
With the average temperature inside a car without tint more than 40* (F) higher than the ambient temperature, one might even suppose tinting your windows would be beneficial to your interior, certainly not the reverse.
I'm sounding like a commercial for window tinters R us, and I don't mean to, but when someone says that the guy should have known better than to tint his windows, that is a bunch of crap.


_Modified by gilesrulz at 9:54 PM 12-21-2006_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*

Hi Giles:
Thanks for your response. I still disagree very much with your thesis, but I do want to stress that it is your idea, your argument that I disagree with, not you as an individual. As an individual, you are a well respected and valuable contributor to our forum, and I'm happy you are part of the community.
Now, having put this discussion into the proper perspective, I'm going to back up about 50 feet and take another run at your thesis with my 'monster crush-em truck'.









_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_As they have to be responsible for designing a door/window combination that focuses light on a piece of vinyl.

That one concept that you identified - the fact that the side window of the car has a curved surface, and that the concave part of the curve is on the inside - is the essence of the issue.
Any surface - glass, metal, concrete block, whatever - is going to have one convex side and one concave side unless it is a flat plane. In other words, unless we as car buyers are willing to accept the perfectly flat side windows that characterized cars of the 1950s and 1960s that had greenhouses on the top that looked like glass aquariums, we are going to get cars that have curved windows on them, and those curved windows are going to have a concave surface on the inside - the side that faces the cabin of the car.
There is nothing wrong with that. The glass itself, as it leaves the factory, does not reflect and concentrate enough light energy to cause any harm. However, if a window tinting film is applied to the inside surface of the glass, and that film happens to reflect more light than the basic glass window -either by design or simply by chance - then the potential for problems will arise.
The tinting film itself doesn't have to be advertised as being 'reflective'. Heck, it's possible that the tint film manufacturer had no intention of making the film reflective (so far as the inside surface goes) - after all, the objective of the film is to reflect light, heat energy, etc. in the other direction, towards the outside of the car. Nevertheless, it is clear from the damage on the inside door panel that the inside surface of the tinting film has greater reflective properties than the 'plain vanilla' window glass that was installed at the factory.
The damage was caused by sunlight hitting the inside surface of the window film and the reflections being concentrated in a single spot due to the fact that the reflective surface (in this case, the inside of the film) was concave.
------------------------
As I mentioned way earlier in this post, I got caught by this very same problem myself several years ago when I parked my motorcycle in front of a building that had tinting film installed on the glass facade of the building. The windows of the building were not designed to be concave, but they were slightly irregular in shape (not absolutely, perfectly flat), and the result was that sunlight was reflected off the windows, concentrated in some spots, and it melted the vinyl covering of my motorcycle seat. If nothing else, this proves that we are not talking about an Eos-specific problem. The problem is basic physics.
Volkswagen could have told Mike L. _"Hey, we're terribly sorry to hear about your problem, but it was not caused by any design defect on our part - it was caused by something you added to the car after you bought it - so, go jump in the lake". _But, they didn't. They were courteous enough to offer a new door panel free of charge. That was a nice courtesy and I'm proud (as a VW enthusiast) that VW did it. But the fact that the extended this courtesy does not in any way suggest that they were responsible. It's like McDonald's - if you drop your hamburger on the floor on the way from the front counter to your table, they will normally give you another one free of charge, just as a courtesy, so as to not wreck your lunch experience.
The bottom line is this: If we modify our vehicles, we have to take responsibility for the consequences of our modifications, even if all the possible consequences cannot be easily foreseen. In some cultures, there is a trend towards disclaiming all responsibility for one's own actions. I hate to name names or point fingers, but I'm talking about places where you see "Caution, contents are hot" on the outside of coffee cups.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_Perhaps there are not so many people that tint their windows in Canada...

We always install the tinting film backwards up here, to try and trap the heat inside the cabin and prevent frost from forming on the seats.








Michael


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## gilesrulz (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

It is obvious that the physics of light and lenses are what is at work here. That is not what is in contention. The argument is whether or not VW Should have either redesigned the window or re-engineered the vinyl so that it could withstand the higher temperatures the window created.
If you put a storm door in front of your vinyl clad front door and came home to a puddle of vinyl on your front step, you would not say 'Well I suppose that is the price you pay for putting up a storm door'. You would more likely say, that front door was under-engineered for its designed purpose. When the company designed the door they could have and should have foreseen that at some point someone might want to put a storm door i front of it.
It is certainly not unreasonable for an engineer at VW to assume, for arguments sake, that most of the buyers of their new convertible will want to tint the windows, since it is, after all a car that will have a greater acceptance in markets that are warm, and have a significant number of days of sun per year.
I think too that a convertible, the interior of which is certainly meant to have a lot more exposure to the elements, should be able to withstand a far greater range in temperature than a normal car. This does not appear to be the case in this instance
Having said all that, who's to say that the batch of vinyl on his door wasn't defective? No one else has reported any problems with their tinted windows burning holes in their interiors.
My original intent of posting the comment after the OP's update was to ask for more details about the tint that caused the failure, and those that have been successful. I would like to avoid causing damage to my car's interior. So you see I am trying to take responsibility and reasonable precautions, and not shirk the same.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (gilesrulz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gilesrulz* »_The argument is whether or not VW Should have either redesigned the window...

Hi Giles:
I hear what you are saying, but unless I am missing something (meaning, there is some other contributing issue that I have not considered), the only way that VW could have prevented the window tint problem would be if they made the side window glass flat.
The moment that they make the side window glass the slightest bit curved, you get a concave surface. The focal point of a concave surface will be (in simplest form) equal to the radius of the curvature of the glass, assuming you shine a light on it at a right angle. Once your light source moves away from a right angle and starts to hit the concave surface at an acute angle, all bets are off. 
What I can conclude from the OP's (original poster's) description is that he moved the car out of the shade and into the sunlight. The sun will hit the inside of the concave surface at a very acute angle, most especially so if it is close to noon hour local time. The sun's rays were reflected onto the door trim and melted it.
My take is that as long as this does not happen with normal glass (the glass that VW ships the car with), VW is off the hook. It is true that lots of people tint glass after they buy a car, but almost always the car will have a roof of some kind that prevents the sun from hitting the inside surface of the window glass. Sadly for the OP, that is not the case with a convertible if the top is left down.
Michael


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I decided to tint my windows today. I can tell immediately with temps here in Virginia being 96 degrees that the inside of the car was much cooler than normal. I went with a ceramic tint so that it has less reflectivity. Hopefully that mitigates any reflectivity issues people have observed so far. Has anyone else had issues with tinting on the Eos?
I went to Express Tint which is at the CarSpa on Holland and Lynnhaven in Virginia Beach. It took them about 30-40 minutes to install the tint and cost $230. I was surprised and impressed at how quick yet professional it went since I watched the entire process. Unfortunately I found a small imperfection in the tint film on the driver window and they replaced it immediately. That added another 20 minutes after that, but well worth it. The tint has finally fully cured and looks great. I went with the legal 50% up front and 35% in the back. However you can barely tell a difference between the two. With the black interior I think the tint looks darker than it should.
I will post pictures once I get my car back from its scheduled service tomorrow.


_Modified by kpiskin at 6:43 PM 7-18-2007_


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: (kpiskin)*

I'll capture some pics tomorrow. It's raining now......got the flash today, wow!


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: (kpiskin)*

Okay, this is a pic of the car when I first bought it:








And here are two after the tint (50% front/35% rear)



















_Modified by kpiskin at 6:24 PM 7-21-2007_


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (kpiskin)*

Nice tint job. I wonder how they can do the back window...I have trouble just cleaning it.


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: (SoCalMan)*

They just got back there and did it. Two guys working together to hold and cut etc.


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## paisano (Apr 26, 2007)

*Re: (kpiskin)*

Any chance you could post a pic or two with the top down and the windows up? I work about 2 blocks from the place that did this work...seriously thinking about getting it done on my black eos. I think yours looks great with the top up and works really well with the color of paint.


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: (paisano)*

I'll do just that when I get a chance tomorrow. Oh hey does anyone know if there is a way to lower the windows with the remote?


_Modified by kpiskin at 9:02 PM 7-24-2007_


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (kpiskin)*

You can do it with a VAG-COM or with a roof module. I wish VW would have put this as a selectable option in the MFD.


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