# RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

* FSI CARBON BUILD UP from a vehicle with under 60k and Upgraded Turbo System, this cylinder head showed "Mild" Build up compared to other vehicles we have serviced *
* Un-Cleaned Valves Removed from Cylinder Head *
















* Sea Foam Cleaning on Two Valves while they were still in the Cylinder Head VS. Un-cleaned *








* These Two Valves were Sea Foamed while still in the head, as you can see its still difficult to clean the back sides *








*Sea Foam Clean Ports while head was still fully assembled VS. Un Cleaned Ports*
















* As you can see from the pictures a Sea Foam Treatment Service to clean the cylinder head / valves only works to an extent ! Cylinder head is currently being steam cleaned, all the valves will be fully cleaned and re installed with new Valve Guide Seals. *


----------



## ssunnylee24 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations ([email protected])*

WOW.
Thanks for posting this up.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Yep, seafoam pretty much doesn't do anything on these cars.
Dave


----------



## ssunnylee24 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: (crew219)*









I can see the difference in between seafoam'd and not.
I mean, it's not a drastic change but something.

_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_Yep, seafoam pretty much doesn't do anything on these cars.
Dave


----------



## whatisit (Nov 11, 2009)

*Re: (ssunnylee24)*

May not be a perfect job...but I just seafoamed my car last weekend before an oil change, and it certainly *felt* like a difference.
I'll have to keep in mind that I should get this cleaned right within the next 20k miles.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

*Re: (ssunnylee24)*

The problem with using a chemical like seafoam or any other carbon disolving product is that when you are cleaning the valves you have to be careful to not get any chunks of Carbon in bettwen the valves and head, Or letting the debris fall in the cylinder and possilby destroying your exhaust turbine wheel. 
This is why we removed the cylinder head to avoid all possibilities. The head will hopfully be back today sometime and we will replace the valve seals and also lap the valves to ensure a perfect seal!!


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

How exactly did you clean it then if you didn't suck it up while the engine was on?
Dave


_Modified by crew219 at 12:00 PM 2-12-2010_


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

*Re: (crew219)*

While the engine?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Sea Foam Service Cleaning was done with the head off the engine with the valve train still intact in the head.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Sea Foam Service Cleaning was done with the head off the engine with the valve train still intact in the head.

Sorry, fixed my mistake.
Are you saying that you just sprayed some sea foam on the valves? Seafoam needs the valves to be hot in order for it to work. Head off of the vehicle, I just don't see how it is really comparable to how everyone else uses seafoam in their own vehicles.
Dave


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

*Re: (crew219)*

We actually poured the Sea Foam in the intake ports and let it sit for hours to disolve the build up. Yes Sea foam works when the engine is hot, but it also works when you the the chmeical soak into the carbon/oil build up


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_We actually poured the Sea Foam in the intake ports and let it sit for hours to disolve the build up. Yes Sea foam works when the engine is hot, but it also works when you the the chmeical soak into the carbon/oil build up

Is this with or without manual agitation of the valves? 
I think you should try carb cleaner if you have the intake manifold off . . . has worked much better in my experience.
Dave


----------



## MoparShaha (Nov 20, 2007)

How much does a service like this run?


----------



## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: (MoparShaha)*

What a excellent design from the VW/Audi group.......a real technical "tour de force"........


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

i wonder how they would respond of you mailed them these pictures... plus all the other pictures... they probably just burn them. lmao.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: (Krieger)*

Started re-assembly tonight. Will post up some fresh pictures tomorrow !


----------



## skateboy918 (Apr 26, 2008)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations ([email protected])*

hey great job pat! quick question, what is with the 3-prong spark plugs? is this recommended?


----------



## MKV John. (Jan 9, 2009)

*FV-QR*

how many miles were on that head? that ish scares me... i'm going to take the head off and have the whole thing redone sometime this year... still deciding if i want to stay with the stock valvetrain or not.


----------



## MKV John. (Jan 9, 2009)

*FV-QR*

oh i just saw under 60k, my bad! reading > me.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (MKV John.)*

Upgrade while its apart! its not cheap to properly perform this job!


----------



## ThumbThumbs (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Just curoius what's the price range on getting just the valves clean.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (ThumbThumbs)*

All Pm's replied


----------



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

threads like these are so disheartening...







did the owner have a catch can? or was he running stock PCV?


----------



## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_We actually poured the Sea Foam in the intake ports and let it sit for hours to disolve the build up. Yes Sea foam works when the engine is hot, but it also works when you the the chmeical soak into the carbon/oil build up
I'm gonna call this test flawed on that point alone. It barely does anything just soaking cold parts. I soaked the port dividers in seafoam overnight and it really didn't do anything. Sprayed them with throttle body cleaner and the junk just melted off.
The way I see it, using Seafoam is like the old water/steam trick except since it's a light oil it coats the valves for a second before burning off. There's really no solvent action in Seafoam so putting it on cold parts is useless. Carbon cleaner/t-body spray works 10x better for that.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

*Re: (blackvento36)*

Actually I soaked the dividers in the sea foam and they were spotless in a matter of 10 minutes. No matter what you use to disolve the carbon/oil will never clean the entire valve/chamber.




_Modified by [email protected] at 2:43 PM 2-15-2010_


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

Yes it had a catch can for about 15k. Its my Cylinder head off of my STG 3 GTI. New style catch can is being developed now.


_Modified by [email protected] at 6:16 AM 2-15-2010_


----------



## Cust11 (Jan 9, 2010)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (skateboy918)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skateboy918* »_hey great job pat! quick question, what is with the 3-prong spark plugs? is this recommended? 

A 3 prong is no better than a standard NGk copper or iridium plug. Current will always flow the path of least resistance, not through all three legs. You would see no difference in the bosch platinum 3's vs NGK iridium plugs. IMO the iridium would be more efficient in retaining the spark energy.


----------



## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (Cust11)*

I was just thinking about Seafoam Vs Throttle Body clean, manifold cleaners etc...
I realize an exhaust tip isn't nearly as hot as the intake valves - but since mine are already in carbon...after a nice long drive - the exhaust tips get pretty hot too, just spray them with different solutions and see which ones take off the most carbon!...lol - although I will admit brake cleaner works pretty good on the tips...just not appropriate for the valves...


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (vliou)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vliou* »_although I will admit brake cleaner works pretty good on the tips...just not appropriate for the valves...

brake cleaner is perfectly fine. same stuff in carb/throttle body cleaner except it doesn't have any oils in it or your brakes wouldn't work







.. most brake cleaner is really brake/parts cleaner. I use it on pretty much anything that won't melt from the acetone that is in most brands now.


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

will meth kit injected before the throttle body make a difference?


----------



## MP413Racer (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: (VWAUDITEK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITEK* »_What a excellent design from the VW/Audi group.......a real technical "tour de force"........









this is a problem that is not only limited to VAG vehicles, it's inherent to many current direct injected engine designs










_Modified by MP413Racer at 12:58 PM 2-15-2010_


----------



## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: (MP413Racer)*

The real technical tour de force is when VAG decided to have Valve stem leakage on purpose to PREVENT carbon buildup...


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (Cust11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cust11* »_
A 3 prong is no better than a standard NGk copper or iridium plug. Current will always flow the path of least resistance, not through all three legs. You would see no difference in the bosch platinum 3's vs NGK iridium plugs. IMO the iridium would be more efficient in retaining the spark energy.

What we use on J.R's car are Audi R8 plugs which are seen in the picture. No reason except I can get them at the dealer.


_Modified by [email protected] at 2:41 PM 2-15-2010_


----------



## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations ([email protected])*

FWIW - at 105k my valves didn't look half as bad as the ones pictured here... I do seafoam every 40k or so, and I run water/meth sporatically...
see here: http://www.photoshop.com/user/...share
before/during/after pictures of my cleaning... used GM top clean and various picks/etc to clean up the valves while still in the head, head installed on the engine...


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (2pt0tee)*

Took a look at your pictures, Looks like you have a good bit of build up in there. If you were to pull out the valves you would see how bad they actually are.


----------



## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations ([email protected])*

There's build-up on the top of the valve stems... but the lower part of the valves and the ports into the head were no where near as dirty as yours. You have a thick layer of buildup on the lower part of your valves... look again, mine were not like that at all.
I don't need to take the head off to know... I hand cleaned the valves, I know how much gunk came out of there... lol


----------



## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (2pt0tee)*

The bottom of my valves looked cleaner than the ones you soaked in seafoam! lol


----------



## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (2pt0tee)*

I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just trying to show that regular use of seafoam thru the engine while it is running can have a positive effect on the build-up.


----------



## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (2pt0tee)*

I agree - those valves look squeaky clean for that mileage!!


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

*Re: RSW: Carbon Build Up Sea Foam Treatment Limitations (2pt0tee)*

No worries mate! The back sides of the valves are definetly more clean then mine as shown. The chambers look pretty gummed up.


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

just wait till you see how mine looks... 60,000 miles of no seafoam, a broken ass PCV system, and crappy oil used by a retarded owner... and another 7k of good oil, a VTA system, and 13 sessions of seafoaming... its either gonna be really bad... or just kinda bad. lmao.
u think i should pull my injectors too and scrub them as well or do you think they should be good enough? Also, you think soaking the piston in SF or some other heavy duty cleaner overnight would help at all? Im thinking of just pulling the plugs, loading the cylinder up, letting it soak, scrubbing a bit, then sucking out as much as possible.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_just wait till you see how mine looks... 60,000 miles of no seafoam, a broken ass PCV system, and crappy oil used by a retarded owner... and another 7k of good oil, a VTA system, and 13 sessions of seafoaming... its either gonna be really bad... or just kinda bad. lmao.
u think i should pull my injectors too and scrub them as well or do you think they should be good enough? Also, you think soaking the piston in SF or some other heavy duty cleaner overnight would help at all? Im thinking of just pulling the plugs, loading the cylinder up, letting it soak, scrubbing a bit, then sucking out as much as possible.

I wouldn't fill the cylinder bore up with anything, You would then Wash down the cylinders with the solvent. As for the Injectors the ports don't really get any build up. What I would do is repalce the teflon seals on the Injectors to ensure a good seal.
When I removed my cylinder head I used a Loctite gasket remover which brought the pistons back to new! Ill have pictures later..


----------



## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

A week and a half ago I wrote a very angry letter to Audi of Canada about this crap - with the giant link over on Audizine which has links to sooo many owners. I called today very angry - and got a status update...they are reviewing the issue and it is currently up onto the 4th supervisor...what ****heads


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

i called AoA too. they just said they had no documented information on the issue and asked me to call again later of it gets worse... lol


----------



## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_i called AoA too. they just said they had no documented information on the issue and asked me to call again later of it gets worse... lol

Both of these responses from Audi could be used for anything you called them about. They probably have a list of standard responses to deal with known issues and just randomly pick them off a sheet. Next time you will get the "That is very interesting, we will forward it to the engineering department and look into it. Thank you for calling".


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 28, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (dmorrow)*

Just an update ... 
*MMMM so fresh and so clean *
















































*Valves all lapped to the fresh cylinder head*








































*A few more ready for rebuilds ! *


----------



## bacardicj151 (Dec 9, 2007)

God I wish I could find someone around me to get my fsi that clean. Wow


----------



## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: (bacardicj151)*

I'd do the 11 hour drive to NJ if the price is right. How much are you charging?


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

I have 30K miles on my car right now. I have been running a catch can since 24K miles & The EJ PCV fix before that from 5K miles. I wanna Seafoam my valves but I hear horror stories about CEL's & blown coil packs & the car running like total dogisht. Is this Seafoam treatment basically a crap shoot on if your gonna have issues afterward or are these horror stories over the top?


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

seafoam doesn't blow coilpacks . . . lol


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_seafoam doesn't blow coilpacks . . . lol

Yea thats why I asked if that isht was true or not, "misfires caused coil packs to blow" was what I was told by a vortexer. I just wanna seafoam my valves & be n my way... lol


----------



## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

*Re: (vliou)*

Yeah how many hours and what cost would you associate with this time of cleaning?


----------



## rkmoore (Dec 14, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

they dont even sell em' that clean http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------

