# First Start on Megasquirt - unsuccessful - MSV2.2 - 16V 2L ITB



## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

I have not been able to get her to start and have conducted about 17 different checks (and rechecks), but am not sure where to look further. I'm hoping that the masters here can chime in and I can turn this in to an abridged list for other people on what small tweaks/things to look for when having issues getting the car to fire. 

To start, the specs and my procedure:

MS V2.2 with HR-10 code, running MSD-6A ignition and a Speed Density Map from a friend who has a very similar setup, except that he is running a standard Bosch coil (thanks Frechem) 

* If you do not have a battery charger - BUY ONE! I thought my car would fire right away (ignorance is bliss) and nearly killed my battery before realizing I did not have enough voltage to turn the car over fast enough. I have a battery charger from my motorcycles that really works nicely. Once that was remedied, I was able to experience the following:

Popping and a flame coming out the intake as well as a few pops from the tailpipe. It appears that the timing is off or Fuel injectors do not seem to be in sync with the spark. So, I consulted the manual and went on to retesting the major players:

1) Checked timing and that the firing order on the plug wires were dialed - it is.

* Note: I'm not sure if the distributor is in the correct spot, but had someone turn the key while I turned the dizzy to see where it would appear to almost fire, but that still did not result in it firing.

2) Calibrated TPS with a 33 closed (partly opened for idle as suggested in the manual) and 179 WOT

3) Confirmed the Spark settings were changed in the map for running the MSD:

Spark settings:
Spark set to Inverted = Yes
Dwell Duty to Fix - 50%

Codebase Output functions = LED 17 to Spark A

Pin 27 on MS board to White Wire on MSD

4) Tested to make sure I had spark (after finding out I had a bad MSD box -  ) - confirmed.

5) Tested to be sure Injectors were working. I find out my one of my G60 injectors leaks from the plastic top and cannot be used. Swapped out G60 injectors for a set of RC 270's I had lying around. I'll need to either source another G60 injector or go with a set of 1.8t's as I'm not sure if the RC's may be causing over-fueling issues.

Map was built for G60 injectors
I then went to Engine Constants and changed required fuel for the 27lb injectors - recalculated req'd fuel.

2000 cc's
4 cyl
27 lb/hr
AF: 14.7
-------------> 11.8 ms

Injectors wired (1 & 4) (3 & 2)
2sqts - Alternating

6) Once I confirmed all of the above - I again attempted to start the engine. Again, popping another flame out of #3 cylinder intake and pops out the tailpipe - it seemed like it was going to fire, but did not.

7) Plugs fouled (too much fuel) - replaced plugs.

** Current State **

The last two things I wanted to consult you guys with was the following:

- Timing:
Right now, in the spark settings, I'm using the Map - by the following settings:










I was told that I should take out the (-) on the fixed angle so that I can bypass using the spark map. Setting it to 10, and then trying to start the car by turning the dizzy. Once it starts, I can use a timing light on it and set it to 10. Once theses are matched up, I can then add the (-) back in and use the spark map.

^ I tried that, but again, no start. Should I bring that down to 6 or 0 to see if it will start?

Finally, we come to the one thing I'm perplexed on - Pulse Widths! I've had issues in the past using RC's as they seem to be odd in their patterns and when they "squirt". Also, I realize that these are a bit large for the motor, but even being Pig rich, I should be able to start the engine. The manual says to use some sort of formula for figuring the PW's out, but I can't seem to get a handle on it. As well, many experts have a certain "feeling" and trick to messing with the PW's. 



















A) ^ I don't know where and "how" I should adjust the pulse widths in TS

B) Is there any other tricks I should look for in this initial start-up?

Any other questions or screenshots you need from me to make this easier to trouble-shoot?

As always, thanks for all your expertise!


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## bomberbob (Sep 19, 2004)

I haven't ran ignition yet (over two years), just use it for fuel. I plan on swapping over to ignition in the next month. So I can't really help you out with the spark issue except to tell you what you already know, your timing is way off (flames out the intake).
I can tell you that the squirt of fuel doesn't have to be synchronized to the spark. I think megasquirt 3 has the ability to sequentially squirt and hit an open valve, but I don't think your version does that.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

What engine is this on? I had a buddy mis-wire his 16v distro on me and it did exactly what you are experiencing... Double check!

Also I did an install on another car and had similar issues. That one turned out to be an overheated junkyard motor with a valve missing and barely any compression. 

Double check everything!


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

*need_a_VR6* -

This is on a 9A 2L 16V. Motor ran okay before - unless (below) - screwed it up. I'll need to do a compression check I guess.

Went and checked timing - "by the book" again... looks like I might have been 180 out. So, I corrected that and replaced the plugs. I don't have the popping and flame out the intake, but seems even less likely at starting now. I had someone turn the key again while I messed with the distributor, but to no avail. Now, I'm beginning to think maybe I wasn't 180 out and just hosed something. This stuff starts to make you doubt yourself and then talk yourself out of what you had just done.

The hall sensor is wired- 
Green/white wire to Pin 24
Red/Black to 5V ref (tapped into TPS 5V)
Brown - ground to head, MS, other sensor grounds.

Anymore suggestions?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Time initially so the notch on the distro body is centered on the rotor contact. Also remember the 16v distro spins counterclockwise and firing order is 1342.


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Time initially so the notch on the distro body is centered on the rotor contact. Also remember the 16v distro spins counterclockwise and firing order is 1342.


^ Yep, that all seems to be dialed now - its just not catching to run. At least its not popping and backfiring. Spark plugs seem to be less wet than before, but still had a bit of fuel on them, so that is good (I turned down the required fuel to 11). The exhaust pipe from the header of cylinder 2 was pretty warm near the head, but none of the others had much temperature. I'm wondering if now there is not enough fuel and its lean? I also am not sure i have the pulse widths on the fuel correct.

Either way, I'm stumped and not sure what to do.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Dubrunner said:


> This is on a 9A 2L 16V. Motor ran okay before - unless (below) - screwed it up. *I'll need to do a compression check I guess.*
> 
> Went and checked timing - "by the book" again... looks like I might have been 180 out. So, I corrected that and replaced the plugs. I don't have the popping and flame out the intake, but seems even less likely at starting now. I had someone turn the key again while I messed with the distributor, but to no avail. Now, I'm beginning to think maybe I wasn't 180 out and just hosed something. This stuff starts to make you doubt yourself and then talk yourself out of what you had just done.



definitely do a compression check

this sounds exactly like the 2 motors ive come over to help folks start, only to discover that the compression was low, either due to being completely out of time, or because they had valve issues.

make 110% sure that the mechanical timing is good.

also, maybe i misunderstood your previous post, but dont move around the req fuel once youve run the calculator. change whatever map youre working with to acheive what you want... this isnt 034 where you jack around the base number until you find something that works


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

Double-triple checked the mechanical timing and its DEAD on now. Spark is strong and the fuel is there, but I also noticed that I may not be getting enough fuel as the FPR is set at 32psi right now and I also knocked the fuel down earlier..?



> also, maybe i misunderstood your previous post, but dont move around the req fuel once youve run the calculator. change whatever map youre working with to acheive what you want... this isnt 034 where you jack around the base number until you find something that works.


^ That actually made me laugh in spite of my issue with changing the required fuel. Guess I'll be setting it back to the original map and starting from there. And yes, I have worked on the 034 stuff before... :facepalm:

Another thing is that I may not have the intakes open far enough. I followed the manual, but every ITB setup is different. So, I may need to open them up at the pedal, to have more air in there.

Compression check and an injector swap is happening in the next day or two, so we'll see what happens then. Not that I "want" to, but i do have a spare, clean, rebuilt head on the shelf. Just keeps calling me to put cams in it then... 

Any comments on the settings or something I should be looking at in MS as well? 

Thanks for the help!


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

set the FPR up for ~45psi with no vacuum for the base pressure.

check the compression and see what youve got there. sounds to me like it oughta at least come up to life and run for a few seconds from what youve got now (assuming you followed paul's advice and set the distributor real close to its TDC mark, and the firing order is correct)

as for your pedal, just try sweeping the pedal slowly as youre cranking, once youve confirmed the couple things i mentioned above

:beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

For sure you will need idle air, try opening it and see what it does.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

if you havnt set the throttle stop yet at idle (which is obvious since it hasnt run haha) you will def have to crack the throttles while cranking. I find that with most first starts a little pedal modulation is required to get it started and hold an idle :thumbup: sounds like you are super close too


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> set the FPR up for ~45psi with no vacuum for the base pressure.


^ Done - took a little fiddling back and forth, but its at about 42psi now (up from 34)



> check the compression and see what youve got there. sounds to me like it oughta at least come up to life and run for a few seconds from what youve got now (assuming you followed paul's advice and set the distributor real close to its TDC mark, and the firing order is correct)


^ Done - 225 220 230 235 - not too bad for 120K miles. So, it looks like I'm good there.

- Unfortunately, again, it did not start. Turns over fine, but no sign of firing. My deep cycle Optima is barely hanging on and I'll need to take it to my friend's shop for a proper charge on a special charger (regular charges do not work very well on Optima's). The battery voltage starts about 12 and by about the the third revolution of the starter - it drops to 9V. I know Megasquirt does not like low batt voltage. 

On the realtime display, I saw that the IAT and CTS sensors read 58 degs (garage temp) - but as soon as I cranked the motor, they went to -40 (bottom of the cold crank settings). Seemed odd, but that is what the map has for cold starting in those settings.

I also noticed that there was fuel on the plugs, but this may be from the initial prime - and that maybe the RC's aren't even spraying fuel - which is not good for starting.  However, I was able to get it to pop and bang before - so it just doesn't make sense. Almost like I need to put the timing back to 180 out and start again.. :screwy: . I'm going to swap out the injectors to the 1.8t versions and test with the fuel rail out to see if the injectors are actually firing.

Just to be sure, I pulled every plug with wire individually and checked to see that I saw spark when cranking. The thing is the spark seemed erratic and not consistent. I'm wondering if I was just watching the Hall sensor turning the window.

*** Also of note: When the key is one (and while cranking), the "fan control" box at the bottom of the display seems to flicker on and off in green. Could there be an output issue there or is the MS tweaking out? I don't have any fan control setup on the MS that I know of - so this is baffling. 

Lastly, I set the Map to the original with just the spark settings changed and original required fuel. The original map was set to Simultaneous, so I left it at that. Even though I have the injectors wired as 1&4 - 2&3 and could do alternating (which requires less fuel).

Other than the above checks, I'm out of ideas. If I didn't have the Hi-Res code I could just download the SplitfireEFI 2L 16V map, change the spark settings and try that one - but that doesn't really work either.

This really does seem like a royal pain in the ass.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Dubrunner said:


> On the realtime display, I saw that the IAT and CTS sensors read 58 degs (garage temp) - but as soon as I cranked the motor, they went to -40 (bottom of the cold crank settings). Seemed odd, but that is what the map has for cold starting in those settings.


this isnt right
it sounds like you might be resetting the ecu during cranking. i wouldnt go any further until you have a fresh charge

i still dont think youre far off, but with a fresh charge and a timing light to verify your ignition timing youll probably get it to fire - in your first post you mentioned not knowing if the distributor was set right, you should probably get a timing light and have a buddy crank the car while you dial in the distributor position. pull your fuel injector fuse before you do this. lock the timing to 6* in MS and lock in the distributor positiong :beer:


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

> this isnt right
> it sounds like you might be resetting the ecu during cranking. i wouldnt go any further until you have a fresh charge


^ Ah, I didn't even think about that issue. Will be charging battery tomorrow. Any info about the blinking fan output box? I hadn't seen it earlier when the battery had a decent charge - so that may have something to do with it too.



> i still dont think youre far off, but with a fresh charge and a timing light to verify your ignition timing youll probably get it to fire - in your first post you mentioned not knowing if the distributor was set right, you should probably get a timing light and have a buddy crank the car while you dial in the distributor position. pull your fuel injector fuse before you do this. lock the timing to 6* in MS and lock in the distributor positiong


I have the Dizzy set so the small notch is in the middle of the rotor, but that may not be close enough. I think its set to 10 in MS right now (removed the - to not use the present spark map) - so I'll update that to 6 (I believe I tried that before though). I'll wait for the battery to charge and go about timing it with the light. 

Thanks again guys! :beer:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Dubrunner said:


> ^ Ah, I didn't even think about that issue. Will be charging battery tomorrow. Any info about the blinking fan output box? I hadn't seen it earlier when the battery had a decent charge - so that may have something to do with it too.


i wouldnt worry about it, if you dont have it hooked to anything its not a big deal



Dubrunner said:


> I have the Dizzy set so the small notch is in the middle of the rotor, but that may not be close enough. I think its set to 10 in MS right now (removed the - to not use the present spark map) - so I'll update that to 6 (I believe I tried that before though). I'll wait for the battery to charge and go about timing it with the light.
> 
> Thanks again guys! :beer:


i only say 6* because you can line it up using the flywheel mark if you dont have an adjustable timing light. if you have an adjustable light, go ahead and use 10*


in any case let the plugs dry off, top off the battery, set the timing, check the battery again/top it off, then get to trying to dial in the fuel/getting it to fire :beer:

and let me know if you need any local portland MS help


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> i only say 6* because you can line it up using the flywheel mark if you dont have an adjustable timing light. if you have an adjustable light, go ahead and use 10*


^ Ah, okay - I'm smelling what you're cooking!



> and let me know if you need any local portland MS help


^ OF COURSE I could use some help. I believe my exact words last night were.... 

"My kingdom for a teleportation device, so I could beam a guru here right now!"

Anytime you'd like, Sir! I'm just off of I-5 about 10 minutes on the West Side. I have a 6 Pack of Widmere in the 'refer and will gladly clear my schedule for it.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

i dont live down there, but i know some folks that do 
ill see if anyones around :beer:


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

Too bad this wasn't last week I just spend the weekend down there :laugh:

Have you just pulled a plug and had the wire hooked up to visually see the spark happening? Def get a good charge and get a charger to use while you are cranking it, you will likely get back to dead before it runs (and if not awesome! but still a good precaution), I have def had some :banghead: nights because the car would be SO close to firing and the batt would take a sh*t..


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> Too bad this wasn't last week I just spend the weekend down there :laugh:


^ D'OH! :facepalm:



> Have you just pulled a plug and had the wire hooked up to visually see the spark happening? Def get a good charge and get a charger to use while you are cranking it, you will likely get back to dead before it runs (and if not awesome! but still a good precaution), I have def had some :banghead: nights because the car would be SO close to firing and the batt would take a sh*t..


^ indeed, so anal as to take out each plug and wire, see if there was spark. Yeah, the battery was brand new too, but even an Optima starts to buckle under that pressure. My motorcycle charger was just not enough juice to maintain it.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

The biggest thing is if your engine data is going to -40, the thing won't start like that, the enrichments will pump that thing so full of fuel it will flood instantly. I bet once you are able to sort that out, you will be there :thumbup:

If the plugs are wet, and have been getting this way, try a new set of plugs. Trying to start with too much fuel will kill brand new plugs very quickly


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

*-RalleyTuned-*

Yeah, I'm sure i've gone through at least 4 sets of plugs in the last week of messing around. I dry them out, test them and try again. The issue is, I'm really not sure why the enrichments are going to -40 or how to remedy it. And having 27lb/hr injectors (instead of the G60 ones) in there isn't helping much either. 

I'll be switching to a set of 1.8t's tonight to eliminate that factor.

If its indeed the battery, great - but something tells me I'll need to adjust the fueling no matter what and I really have no idea what I'm doing in that realm. One step at a time, though.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

Do you have an AFR gauge hooked up? If your engine constants are setup right it should only take a bit of scaling in the fuel maps to dial the fuel in close enough to run. The awesome part with the MSD box is how much more fuel it will burn than with the standard ms ignition.

Have you used the megalogviewer? It is a great tool for finding issues. Run a datalog of the car cranking over a few times, and then take a look at the log. That is also usefull to send to one of us to take a look at and see if we can spot your issue :thumbup:

Also under the "tuning" drop down at the top, there is a Realtime data display, opening that will show you everything at once so you can see if something else is happening to cause those sensors to drop so low


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> Do you have an AFR gauge hooked up? If your engine constants are setup right it should only take a bit of scaling in the fuel maps to dial the fuel in close enough to run. The awesome part with the MSD box is how much more fuel it will burn than with the standard ms ignition.


^ I do have an AEM Uego hooked up and have set the correctly in the constants. However, when looking at the Realtime display, its voltage fluctuates and on the "Dashboard" screen, the gauge blinks at me between 14.7 and 16 (blinking red) with the key on.

I've not yet tried to "scale" the fuel map and may just need to read how to do that. I'm such a visual learner that being able to watch someone perform the action is much easier for me. 



> Have you used the megalogviewer? It is a great tool for finding issues. Run a datalog of the car cranking over a few times, and then take a look at the log. That is also usefull to send to one of us to take a look at and see if we can spot your issue :thumbup:


I guess I'll need to purchase the full version of TS, as I don't think this works as an option in the free version.



> Also under the "tuning" drop down at the top, there is a Realtime data display, opening that will show you everything at once so you can see if something else is happening to cause those sensors to drop so low


^ Yep, been using this to monitor the battery voltage and its how I discovered the IAT and CTS going to -40 when cranked. I don't understand the Pulse Width graph or the Gamma, but I see it.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Dubrunner said:


> I guess I'll need to purchase the full version of TS, as I don't think this works as an option in the free version.


last i recall you could datalog the basic parameters (file - datalogging, or whatever that top menu is in the window), but you couldnt datalog the composite and trigger logger - which you wouldnt need to do anyway
and MLV is free also

if for some reason you cant log the basic stuff in TS, MT is free...


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

MLV = megalogviewer
MT = megatune
TS= tunerstudio

Just in case you had no idea what he was talking about. :laugh:You should be able to log the basic engine functions without paying any money with tuner studio, if not pop megatune on there and run a log. You can get the whole package from DIYAutoTune.com in a very easy downloader which comes with TS, MT, MLV etc all in one


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

Thanks guys - I'll take a look. Battery goes on the special charger tomorrow and I'll be switching the injectors as well. I'm sure I'm flooding the plugs with the RC's. As well, the weird issue with the IAT and CTS measurements might be solved with the fully charged battery. Update on Friday evening, I guess. 

If nothing happens when I conduct the above changes, I'm calling on the Northwest MS Militia to beat it into submission. :sly:

Again, thanks for the suggestions and advice.


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

Make sure you change the required fuel when you change injectors.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

Dubrunner said:


> If nothing happens when I conduct the above changes, I'm calling on the Northwest MS Militia to beat it into submission. :sly:


Well if you are totally stuck and can't find any help, We have a race down there again in early june then again in july :beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

It really sounds like your losing power to the ecu during cranking... Do you see any of the leds go out when yoy crank?


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

Update:

1) Battery charged up and boy does it crank stronger - between 160-190 rpm. No dropping of CTS or IAT readings on the Real Time Display when cranking!

2) Swapped in 22lb/hr 1.8t injectors - checked original map and that is what it was originally set to - however

Required fuel on original map: 13.6 and 6.8ms
Calculated Required fuel when using 22lb/hr was: 14.6 and 7.3ms

So, I'm thinking that was set manually in the original map and I left it that way (so as not to change the VE table right away). If I scale the VE table, the difference in the required fuel ms is roughly 7.3%... which is quite a small increase per cell (which doesn't seem terribly different).

3) Did not have a timing light, so just left the dizzy at the hash mark on the body (centered in the rotor)

Result: *No start*

You can hear the compression and it sounds healthy, but there is no firing or combustion.

I checked and there was no fuel or wetness on the sparkplugs for the first two tries. However, once I started modulating the pedal to give it some air - I checked and there was a minute amount of fuel - possibly fouling. 

So, I then pulled out a spark plug and tested the spark. WOW it was large. The MSD is really working! So, there is spark and fuel....

I have attached a link to the Data Logging file using MLV in TS:

*>>>Log File*


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Has the timing been set? And verified?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Is the MS connected to a 12v source that doesn't drop away during cranking? Was it running on MS prior, or is this a new install?


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

Cam position and crank position have been verified. I don't yet have a timing light to throw on it. I'm not very sure how you can dial in the dizzy with a timing light, when the motor is turning at 160-190rpm.

Car has not run MS before. 12V feed has been verified - + 15 track - current directly from ignition switch in "on" or "start" position. Injectors and my Wide-band are all on the same supply to a relay with 12 volts.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Dubrunner said:


> Cam position and crank position have been verified. I don't yet have a timing light to throw on it. I'm not very sure how you can dial in the dizzy with a timing light, when the motor is turning at 160-190rpm.


It works just like if the motor was turning over at 1000rpm. It sounds as if all you need to do is get the timing closer. Our build went the same way, once we go the battery good enough to get a good cranking speed, it started right up.


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

*SUCCESS!*

Didn't have a timing light, but it took me about three times of turning the dizzy to get her to fire. Takes about 7-8 revolutions on the starter, but I was able to get her to run the first time for about 3 seconds before I shut it off. My throttles were open too wide as it wanted to idle at 4K rpm. Tweaked the dizzy a bit more counterclockwise (MLV was showing advance of 26 or so) and closed the throttles a bit - after 7 or 8 much faster revolutions or cranks from the starter - she fired again and tried to idle at 2300rpm. I again tried to close the throttles a bit more, re-calibrated at 22 (on the closed) - but then combustion and vapor came out the throttles and it acted like it was "running on". So, I need to get a timing light to dial it in at 10 degrees - then switch it to use the MS spark map. THEN, I'll try dialing in the throttles for idle. 

Meanwhile, its onto installing the radiator and coolant so I can let her run a bit more. All in all, not bad for about 15min of work today. As always, suggestions and advice on how to move forward are welcome. AGAIN, HUGE thanks to the MS Big-hitters for their ongoing help.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Glad you are making headway! Keep us posted.


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

Excellent news. :thumbup:


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

frechem said:


> Excellent news. :thumbup:


Without your help, Mike - it would not even have gotten this far. Thank you and a large :beer:. :thumbup:

Small update:

Sunday, I had a buddy come over with a timing light. First, he asked me to start it again as he called "BS" that it actually was breathing on its own.  Then, I disconnected the Fuel Pump Relay and injectors and we hooked up the timing light to see if I could dial it in with just cranking it. :screwy:

It was so far advanced, it took like 20 revolutions of the starter to find the mark and sync it to the light, but just as he was synchronizing it, the solenoid over heated and became permanently "on". Disconnected the battery and it finally shut off. May need to rebuild that starter.. 

He was able to see that the dizzy was near 50 degrees advanced..  Its amazing it started, but does provide a reason why it takes nearly 7 or 8 continuous cycles of the starter before spark and fuel sync up enough to light. 

So, as soon as I have another starter, or find a used one to beat on, I'll try to dial in the distributor. Meanwhile, its hooking up the radiator and coolant so that I can actually run it form more than 3-5 seconds. As it idles high (2300rpm), due to timing, warm-up, etc and not having the throttles set for a decent idle - its not safe to run it for any length of time. Also, so as to not burn up another starter, I may just set the timing while its running as it will have coolant to help keep it from overheating. 

I'm also not sure how to hook up single speed electric fans to a two speed thermoswitch. I'm thinking I can hook the R/White (low speed) and Red/Black (high speed) together and directly to the positive feed of the fans, hook up the ground to the relay ground and just call it done. I really want to be sure the fan comes on in all cases. I don't have the afterun switch - was too much clutter in the engine bay, but may figure that out for hot starting. But up here in the NW, that isn't a huge deal. .


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

Glad to help. Just hook your fans to the low speed wire. That's what I have done and haven't had any problems. There's really no need to use the high speed setting.


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## Dubrunner (Nov 8, 2000)

frechem said:


> Glad to help. Just hook your fans to the low speed wire. That's what I have done and haven't had any problems. There's really no need to use the high speed setting.


^ You know, that is a good idea - the fans already pull so much air together, that having it on the high speed is useless. The low speed will just cool down earlier anyway - AND come on with the afterrun (if I hook that up). I guess I was worried about the amps being pulled through the thermoswitch itself as the R/W wire does not go through the relay.

Now that I think about it, the R/W still connects to the same RED wire/20amp fuse once it runs to the afterrun on the fuseblock (below), so I guess its fused there, anyway. I thought you still had the fan relay mounted under the frame rail on your car, though?

*** Ah you might have left the relay and wiring there so as to not have to "reconstruct" the connections to the thermoswitch and to the original harness. Therefor, just leaving the relay in place.


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

Dubrunner said:


> *** Ah you might have left the relay and wiring there so as to not have to "reconstruct" the connections to the thermoswitch and to the original harness. Therefor, just leaving the relay in place.


That's pretty much what I did. Alos, I wouldn't worry about the after-run switch either. If the thermoswitch is hot enough it will still keep your fans running after the car is shut off.


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