# Oil-related intake valve deposits



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

This is a pretty good read:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...25647
Before you jump in with the catch-can, please actually read the link.


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## agpatel21 (Jun 21, 2006)

Good read, i have been using the RLI for the last oil chance and will be tracking the wear trends, I am not skilled enough to pull the intake man. to see the valves but I will be keeping a eye on that thread.


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## VWTechHouston (Mar 21, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (GT17V)*

you can always run some decarb, i prefer seafoam. The best access for a decarb is through the Intake Air temp port just above the throttle body. Just get a large enough hose or a fitting w/ o-ring that will fill the port.
I have had to Re-Ring 2 EOS's motors at work in the past month, and me and my shop foremen are looking at ways to remove the deposits through decarbs.


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## dsire (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*

Remove the intake air temp sensor using a t30 torx.



1/4" fuel line (the heavy duty stuff with 1/2" OD) fits perfectly into the intake air sensor port, which is centrally located directly above the throttle body. This will distribute evenly to all four cylinders. 










A basketball needle fits perfectly inside and provides enough restriction that you can run without codes. It also will meter the valve cleaner at a rate of approx. 100-150 ml/min, which will prevent hydrolocking the engine. (calcs based on a 0.5 to 0.6 mm diameter opening in the needle, and an intake vacuum of 20" of hg (approx. -10 psig) 








Leave the intake air sensor electrically connected so you do not get any faults. It will still sense the air temp, albeit a little off.

Do not goose the throttle with it connected. You want the intake under vacuum, and not boost pressure.

The active ingredient in the valve cleaner is naptha. The good German Ventil Sauber (valve cleaner) is about twice the concentration as the domestic Seafoam, but you get twice as much Seafoam for your buck.

Use a longer fuel line than I have shown so you can dip into the can. 

_Modified by dsire at 9:12 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:14 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:24 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:34 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:48 AM 1-2-2009_


_Modified by dsire at 9:59 AM 1-2-2009_


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*

excellent, thanks. sounds like a wall-mark parking lot job. ; ) 


_Modified by iGen3 at 10:09 AM 1-2-2009_


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dsire* »_










Just so I'm clear; I would want to use a longer section of fuel line and meter the Seafoam by dipping the end of the basketball needle into it with the engine running? Thanks.


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## dsire (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (jmj)*

exactly. without the needle as a flow restrictor you could possibly suck up too much and hydrolock the engine.


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## dsire (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*

I stole this off one of the 2.0 FSI threads, but this is what the intake valves look like if not cleaned. Fuel additives will not help because the FSI injects the fuel directly into the cylinder and will not 'wash" the valve.
PCV oil burned on the intake valve.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*

O man... how do we clean this???? (sh&t)


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*

yum!


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## n19811978 (Aug 30, 2003)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (MFZERO)*

I don't get it. VW/Audi is using one of the most elegant fuel systems on the market today (FSI, TSI) and yet fell asleep on the PCV system. This, and the flat tappet follower on the HPFP really disapoint me. Way to screw the pouch Volkswagen!!!
-Nick-


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## RoadRager (Sep 5, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Pooch


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## agpatel21 (Jun 21, 2006)

Is the method showed above save as it clears all the sensors and goes directly into the manifold, past the throttle plate. 
Procedure just turn car on and make sure its at op temp, suck about 1/3 of the can in slowly then cut the motor off let it soak for 10-15 min turn the motor on and rev it for a bit keeping the revs low for a few mins, then take ti for a spin with high RPM runs till no smoke comes out.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (agpatel21)*

I used to clean saab turbo intakes with air intake cleaner. Spray 1/2 the can in and then run the car. Spray other 1/2 in and then run the car again. 
Although this is not really designed to clean valves directly, it made a big difference in how the cars ran. And this spray cleaner is going through the intake valves into the combustion chamber and being burned 
(tons of white smoke out of exhaust until it is all burned off ) so it must also be cleaning the intake valves as well right?


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## cafecar (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (GT17V)*

According to the link that the OP suggested and another related thread, North American VAG direct-injection engines have a problem with fuel dilution of oil.
When my car was new, I noticed a strong gasoline smell on the oil dipstick. The car now has a bit over 19K on it, and the smell is reduced but still there. Has anyone else experienced this?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to the OP for the link. I had no idea that fuel dilution of oil was a likely issue with these engines.


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## VWTechHouston (Mar 21, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (cafecar)*

here are pics of #2 and #3 cylinder intake valves on an 07 eos w/ 22k miles. We just finished Re-Ringing the motor today.


_Modified by VWTechHouston at 5:41 PM 1-3-2009_


_Modified by VWTechHouston at 5:42 PM 1-3-2009_


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## agpatel21 (Jun 21, 2006)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*

Why did the 2 and 3 cylinders need to be re-ringed what was the problem with the motor/what was the symptoms.


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## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (agpatel21)*

my car seems like it always has a strong burned oil smell coming out if it when i get out no matter how easy or spirited i have been driving. i think about all the oil and vapr that gets consumed in the combustion chamber and cats and then the picture of those valves pop in my head everytime


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## staulkor (May 21, 2007)

My exhaust has a real strong smell of gas and oil...
And those intake valves are *nasty*...makes me want to seafoam my car now instead of waiting another 5k until 40k miles.


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## wannagofast (May 25, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*

Wow 22k miles. I guess sitting in the miserable big city traffic does not help much. Remember people, the more your engine idles, the quicker the valves will gunk up. 
How did cylinders 1 & 4 look? Hopefully not as bad as the two inner cylinders. Why are you re-ringing? Compression problems? Is it only EOS cars?
I really need to set a day to check this out on my own car. I have 7,600 miles and it gets plenty of boost and not to much idle, so hopefully it won't be to bad. Although, I wonder what my turbo, intercooler, and piping look like. Do you see cars with alot of oil build-up post turbo from the rear breather?
Sorry for all the questons, it's just nice to have insight from some one who wrenches on these cars every day.


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## MKV~Adam (Oct 23, 2007)

Found this product. No experience with it though..
http://www.wynns.be/news.aspx?...d=282


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: (MKV~Adam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKV~Adam* »_Found this product. No experience with it though..
http://www.wynns.be/news.aspx?...d=282
interesting


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

I would appear that a few solutions have been theorized (the most recent one by Ford, no less). They don't look like anything that will help us, tough.
http://www.patentstorm.us/pate....html
http://www.patentstorm.us/pate....html
It would appear that by using variable valve timing (or lift) the ECU plays with the amount of fuel injected, injection timing (with respect to piston position), and intake valve timing (with respect to piston position) and/or valve lift. By forcing unburned fuel back into the intake and then drawing it in once again or alternately by spraying fuel across as much of the valve as the spray pattern allows the buildup issue can be managed. And by the sound of it, it doesn't require that much cycle time to make a difference.
EDIT: This looks interesting as well. A special motor oil blend to help prevent the deposits.
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP1608725.html
More:
http://www.freshpatents.com/Lu...6.php

_Modified by magilson at 12:25 AM 1-4-2009_


_Modified by magilson at 12:31 AM 1-4-2009_


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## agpatel21 (Jun 21, 2006)

That special oil blend you can get from RLI, renewable lubricants inc, it is the 5w40 super high performance motor oil they have. It was formulated for an Audi RS4 motor and is known to work well with FSI motors and fuel dilution issues, and does help with intake valve deposits as it is low volatility. Check out the post about the FSI intake deposits.


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## agpatel21 (Jun 21, 2006)

*Re: (MKV~Adam)*

http://www.wynns.be/news.aspx?...d=282
I was looking at that stuff the other night, i wonder if it works better then sea foam some one needs to try ti out and fig out were ti blow it into..


_Modified by agpatel21 at 4:12 AM 1-4-2009_


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (agpatel21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *agpatel21* »_That special oil blend you can get from RLI, renewable lubricants inc, it is the 5w40 super high performance motor oil they have. It was formulated for an Audi RS4 motor and is known to work well with FSI motors and fuel dilution issues, and does help with intake valve deposits as it is low volatility. Check out the post about the FSI intake deposits. 

The UOA's I've seen with that oil tell me it performs no better in the FSI motors than other readily available, less expensive oils. And there has been no more than anecdotal evidence that RLI's formulation is any better at reducing deposits. (People use it and now they have no misfires... yeah, well I don't use it and don't have misfires... so what does that mean?) RLI might perform well. But there isn't enough evidence to prove it, yet. And there's plenty of the same evidence that shows other oils can perform that well, too.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (GT17V)*

What % of the valve deposits are coming from the pcv system? I would guess most of it right?
So wouldn't removing the pcv return eliminate most of the deposit problem?
such as discussed here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4182518


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_The UOA's I've seen with that oil tell me it performs no better in the FSI motors than other readily available, less expensive oils. And there has been no more than anecdotal evidence that RLI's formulation is any better at reducing deposits. (People use it and now they have no misfires... yeah, well I don't use it and don't have misfires... so what does that mean?) RLI might perform well. But there isn't enough evidence to prove it, yet. And there's plenty of the same evidence that shows other oils can perform that well, too.

I agree the jury is still out. Also it seems oil affects the deposits in a couple ways:
(1) Less volatile oil reduces the oil vapors getting into the pcv system in the first place
(2) An oil that cleans well means that the oil vapors that are in the pcv system can potentially help clean oil deposits that are already there and/or help prevent new deposits from forming
Wouldn't eliminating the pcv return altogether eliminate the problem and reduce the burden of trying to use the oil to clean/prevent deposits?


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_I used to clean saab turbo intakes with air intake cleaner. Spray 1/2 the can in and then run the car. Spray other 1/2 in and then run the car again. 
Although this is not really designed to clean valves directly, it made a big difference in how the cars ran. And this spray cleaner is going through the intake valves into the combustion chamber and being burned 
(tons of white smoke out of exhaust until it is all burned off ) so it must also be cleaning the intake valves as well right?









So you're saying to spray this directly into our intakes... 
(remove the air filter while car is running & spray 1/2 the can in) 
Ok so after we do as you suggest... 
What is the end result? 
What happens to our _MAF sensor _as well as our _O2 sensors_? 
I would think that they would be damaged during this process... no?


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
Wouldn't eliminating the pcv return altogether eliminate the problem and reduce the burden of trying to use the oil to clean/prevent deposits? 

Eliminating a PCV system altogether (by eliminating the return line) would allow moisture and fuel to degrade the oil in your sump more quickly. A proper catch-can setup can greatly reduce the amount of volatile vapors that make it into your intake but it will never completely eliminate them.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_
Ok so after we do as you suggest... 
What is the end result? 
What happens to our _MAF sensor _as well as our _O2 sensors_? 
I would think that they would be damaged during this process... no?

I'm not sure why you think the 02 sensor would be damaged by this method any more than the other methods discussed. Could you explain? It would be best to be sure that it's MAF safe, though, if you decided to go this route. I really wonder if it would stay airborne after traveling through the intercooler. I would think, just as oil does, that it would condense out of the air stream and collect at the bottom. Because of this I still think it's best to do the cleaning right at the intake manifold.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_
So you're saying to spray this directly into our intakes... 
(remove the air filter while car is running & spray 1/2 the can in) 
Ok so after we do as you suggest... 
What is the end result? 
What happens to our _MAF sensor _as well as our _O2 sensors_? 
I would think that they would be damaged during this process... no?

I always sprayed it "downstream" of the MAF sensor not just remove air cleaner and spray there. That is how I did it on the saabs. The closer to the intake the better.
There wouldn't be any more damage to the o2 sensors than using seafoam or valve sauber as they are all brned and go out the exhaust. Never had issues with o2 sensors using this on several cars.


_Modified by saaber2 at 10:01 AM 1-4-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Eliminating a PCV system altogether (by eliminating the return line) would allow moisture and fuel to degrade the oil in your sump more quickly. A proper catch-can setup can greatly reduce the amount of volatile vapors that make it into your intake but it will never completely eliminate them.

But what if u had a BSH style catch can system but just vent to atmosphere? Wouldn't the fuel and moisture still be removed? This way the "leftovers" not caught in the catch can would never make it back to the engine.


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## VWTechHouston (Mar 21, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (wannagofast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *agpatel21* »_Why did the 2 and 3 cylinders need to be re-ringed what was the problem with the motor/what was the symptoms.


The customer had been in about 6 times complaining about having to add oil, at least .5-1 quart every time he checked the oil. I did VWOA stupid Consumption test, and the claimed 'normal operation' and blamed the customer for not topping off his oil every time he filled up w/ gas. 
Well the last time he cam back our District rep and manager agreed to 'goodwill' new piston rings for all 4 cylinders.
Now #1,4 were no where near as bad as #2,3. #3 was where the oil was really getting burned, the back of valves and the spark plug has some nasty build up. Also the 1 and 2 rings were about 10-15 degrees off center of each other. 

_Quote, originally posted by *wannagofast* »_
How did cylinders 1 & 4 look? Hopefully not as bad as the two inner cylinders. Why are you re-ringing? Compression problems? Is it only EOS cars?
Do you see cars with alot of oil build-up post turbo from the rear breather?
.

Compression was good on all 4 cylinders, its really not a car specif problem. It just seems that people who own an EOS are more likely to complain about oil Consumption, although i do have a 2.5 Jetta w/ a ' car uses too much oil' complaint to look at today.
As for the build up post turbo there is always going to be some there, i don't know the exact amount but i never seen anything i would consider excessive.


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## RedWabbitVR (Mar 1, 2006)

but what about a water/meth system? would that not keep the deposits off the valves


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTechHouston* »_Also the 1 and 2 rings were about 10-15 degrees off center of each other.

lol. I love it.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTechHouston* »_
#3 was where the oil was really getting burned, the back of valves and the spark plug has some nasty build up. Also the 1 and 2 rings were about 10-15 degrees off center of each other. 


So is #3 cylinder burning excessive oil normal or was there a problem with his engine? You make it sound like the owner was at fault here. What was his consumption rate? I hardly think "1/2-1 quart every time he checked" is going to make VWoA foot the bill for a ring job.


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## VWTechHouston (Mar 21, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (solarflare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_
So is #3 cylinder burning excessive oil normal or was there a problem with his engine? You make it sound like the owner was at fault here. What was his consumption rate? I hardly think "1/2-1 quart every time he checked" is going to make VWoA foot the bill for a ring job.

Like i said above the top 2 oil rings on cylinder #3 had the ring gap about 10 degrees off of being alined with eachother, sorry if i did not make it clear. Now was the 100% the cause of the oil burning, no, but it was a factor. 
As far as VWOA was concerned the customer was at fault for not checking his oil and toping it off every time he got gas, as it says in the owners manule. Alos VWOA, ie TECH LINE, did not authorize the ring job. Our District rep/service manager authorized 'good will' money to pay for the ring job, but in the end VWOA did pay for it.
alos it is now published (new TSB) that .5 quart consumption every 600miles is considered 'normal'. 
IMO, the problem with the engines and oil consumption is the lower quality of fuel, oil, and additatives used here in the US (yes the pcv system was a large factor also). Combine that with a majority of VW owners not taking proper care of their cars, it is almost inevitable that a problem would arrise.


_Modified by VWTechHouston at 10:37 AM 1-5-2009_


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTechHouston* »_
As far as VWOA was concerned the customer was at fault for not checking his oil and toping it off every time he got gas, as it says in the owners manule. 

Okay so maybe I'm missing something here. How is not checking his oil every time he fills up causing him to burn oil? Or did he come in for other reasons like running out of oil? 
Still if a ring job solves the problem, then there was a problem with the engine, no? The reason I ask is because my engine burns about 1qt/1000 miles and has done so since day one. I have 25,000 miles on it, changed the oil every 5k with synthetic and top off at 1/2 quart intervals(which is frequent). I've already been through the silly oil consumption test at the dealer and their response was, while we think this is high, we have no idea what is wrong or how to fix it." You can believe that was my last visit to that particular dealer. I'm just trying to figure out if I need to worry about this oil consumption and if it's worth ripping apart the engine to fix. Will I have valve problems or catalytic converter failures down the road because of it?


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
I'm not sure why you think the 02 sensor would be damaged by this method any more than the other methods discussed. Could you explain? It would be best to be sure that it's MAF safe, though, if you decided to go this route. I really wonder if it would stay airborne after traveling through the intercooler. I would think, just as oil does, that it would condense out of the air stream and collect at the bottom. Because of this I still think it's best to do the cleaning right at the intake manifold.

Yea I realized that after I posted... oops...


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## RedWabbitVR (Mar 1, 2006)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (ltlblkcvc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ltlblkcvc* »_but what about a water/meth system? would that not keep the deposits off the valves

anyone have ideas about this?


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## MR2ToVW (Jan 1, 2009)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTechHouston* »_alos it is now published (new TSB) that .5 quart consumption every 600miles is considered 'normal'.


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## MR2ToVW (Jan 1, 2009)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (ltlblkcvc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ltlblkcvc* »_
anyone have ideas about this?

It's true. Steam is an excellent cleaner of an engine's internals.


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## VWTechHouston (Mar 21, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (solarflare)*


_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_
How is not checking his oil every time he fills up causing him to burn oil? Or did he come in for other reasons like running out of oil? 

What VWOA is trying to say _ I THINK_ ( i say thins because every time i talk to tech line the first thing they as if the customer is checking and topping off the oil) is that customers MUST be checking their oil regularly and topping it of as needed, if they are not doing this than they are at fault if the car runs out of oil. And no he only ever came in complaining about the car loosing oil, and he was not adding oil at all.


_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_
Still if a ring job solves the problem, then there was a problem with the engine, no? The reason I ask is because my engine burns about 1qt/1000 miles and has done so since day one


My only advise is find another dealer, tell them you have to add at least 1qt of oil every 1k miles, show some form of documentation, if they are worth a damn they should be able to help you. Honestly as a tech i have zero say in what gets fixed if anything at all, the decision to fix any oil problems is up to VWOA, District Reps, and Service Managers. Its ****ty i know, but that's just how it is.


_Quote, originally posted by *solarflare* »_
Will I have valve problems or catalytic converter failures down the road because of it?


Look into having the dealer run a valve Decarb through the Intake temp Sensor, a few of these should help remove most of the valve build up.
As for the Cat, it is totally possible to have premature failure do to oil burning, if it ever comes up out of warranty just keep documentation of the oil issue and ide say fight it. Honestly i think the hardest part of all this is finding the dealer ship that will work with you not against you.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

VW502.00 oil is a medium SAPs oil, which its byproducts are okay for the catalytic converter.
If you're that concerned about the catalytic converter, switch to the Long Life III oil, which is meets VW504 standard (which meets VW502.00 also, VWoA does acknowledge it), which is Low SAPS, which is very friend to the catalytic converter.
But it has been my experience that VW504 oil, which is a 5w30 oil, I get 2x the oil burning rate than using a 5w40 VW502.00 oil


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (GT17V)*

So I put Seafoam into my intake through the temp sensor hole. I used a 2' section of 1/4" fuel line with the basketball needle. The first several times I dipped the needle into the can the engine bogged down and started running rough, but that became less towards the end. I was definitely burning off some deposits, judging from the smoke, but not too bad. Ended up using almost half a can.
The hardest part of this whole exercise was getting the T30 bolt on and off. The rest is really simple. I'm going to do it again when I change the oil, and probably each oil change thereafter.


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (jmj)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jmj* »_I was definitely burning off some deposits, judging from the smoke, but not too bad. Ended up using almost half a can.

Seafoam itself causes most of the smoke when it burns during the combustion process.


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## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

back when I had a TDI, when I used Diesel Purge (mostly naphtha with diesel fuel), it did dilute the oil even more---
probably best to do Seafoam, then the oil change


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
Seafoam itself causes most of the smoke when it burns during the combustion process.

Nice aroma, too.


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*

how long does the cleaning take? how much of the stuff do you use? Can you post a link of what exact product to buy?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (fahrenheit 525)*

seafoam or valve sauber, see here http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4256886


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (saaber2)*

this is how most dealerships are tackling carbon buildup these days. 








a fine mist entered pre TB while running. In extreme carbon buildup however the guys at my work still remove the intake mani and literally do it with dental pics and GM top clean.......then use the mist machine 
pictured is moc induction service tool and induction kit#01691.......the BG kit works better though. http://www.bgprod.com

_Modified by RABIDRABBIT1983 at 2:33 AM 2-20-2009_


_Modified by RABIDRABBIT1983 at 2:35 AM 2-20-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (VWTechHouston)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWTechHouston* »_here are pics of #2 and #3 cylinder intake valves on an 07 eos w/ 22k miles. We just finished Re-Ringing the motor today.




VWTechHouston, do you know what kind of oil was used in this car?
Also, for any other cars where you've seen this high buildup what kind of oil did they run? Thanks a lot for posting these pictures, it really helps to show the extent of the problem! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
VWTechHouston, do you know what kind of oil was used in this car?
Also, for any other cars where you've seen this high buildup what kind of oil did they run? Thanks a lot for posting these pictures, it really helps to show the extent of the problem! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

My 06 GLI has carbon build up very similar but not as much to the second pic. 
Ive used Mobil 1 every 5k miles and I have over 30K miles on the car/ engine.







Bob.G



_Modified by rracerguy717 at 7:16 PM 2-23-2009_


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## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: (jmj)*

Can you say sunday project


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## masterkaj (Feb 22, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (GT17V)*

So whats the verdict on the bsh catch can then? I mean I know its not going to get everything, but some is better than nothing correct?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (masterkaj)*

I think I may try the slashcut system. It just makes too much sense and eliminates the need for a catch can. All pcv gunk just goes to the exhaust.
check out Pages 6 and 7 on this thread, good discussion
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...art=6
The more I learn the more a "slashcut" system makes sense to me. It is simple, pulls out gases under vacuum, limited or no potential for freezing and gunk going into the intake is eliminated.










_Modified by saaber2 at 7:39 PM 3-17-2009_


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## B5Bombers (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (RABIDRABBIT1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RABIDRABBIT1983* »_this is how most dealerships are tackling carbon buildup these days. 








a fine mist entered pre TB while running. In extreme carbon buildup however the guys at my work still remove the intake mani and literally do it with dental pics and GM top clean.......then use the mist machine 
pictured is moc induction service tool and induction kit#01691.......the BG kit works better though. http://www.bgprod.com

_Modified by RABIDRABBIT1983 at 2:33 AM 2-20-2009_

_Modified by RABIDRABBIT1983 at 2:35 AM 2-20-2009_


No way this is crazy talk it will not run with out the maf


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## B5Bombers (Aug 20, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (B5Bombers)*

but I will say this our n54 in the bmw's are having the same issue.


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## ryangambrill (Aug 1, 2005)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dsire* »_Remove the intake air temp sensor using a t30 torx.



1/4" fuel line (the heavy duty stuff with 1/2" OD) fits perfectly into the intake air sensor port, which is centrally located directly above the throttle body. This will distribute evenly to all four cylinders. 










A basketball needle fits perfectly inside and provides enough restriction that you can run without codes. It also will meter the valve cleaner at a rate of approx. 100-150 ml/min, which will prevent hydrolocking the engine. (calcs based on a 0.5 to 0.6 mm diameter opening in the needle, and an intake vacuum of 20" of hg (approx. -10 psig) 








Leave the intake air sensor electrically connected so you do not get any faults. It will still sense the air temp, albeit a little off.

Do not goose the throttle with it connected. You want the intake under vacuum, and not boost pressure.

The active ingredient in the valve cleaner is naptha. The good German Ventil Sauber (valve cleaner) is about twice the concentration as the domestic Seafoam, but you get twice as much Seafoam for your buck.

Use a longer fuel line than I have shown so you can dip into the can. 

_Modified by dsire at 9:12 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:14 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:24 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:34 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:48 AM 1-2-2009_

_Modified by dsire at 9:59 AM 1-2-2009_

I read some posts where it is suggested that seafoam be put in the crank case as well as gas tank. 
You DIY does not reference either of these.
Some posts also recommend shutting the car down for 5-10 min after the seafoam, and then start back up.
Should this be done?
Should I immediately change the oil after a seafoam treatment?


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## piston (Oct 17, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (ryangambrill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryangambrill* »_
I read some posts where it is suggested that seafoam be put in the crank case as well as gas tank. 
You DIY does not reference either of these.
Some posts also recommend shutting the car down for 5-10 min after the seafoam, and then start back up.
Should this be done?
Should I immediately change the oil after a seafoam treatment?

Everything you posted is mentioned on back of the can of seafoam.
It's recommended to change the oil if you dump SF in your engine but if you just slurp it in via the intake vacuum hose, you can probably get away with not changing your oil but most will do the SF slurp prior to an oil change as part of their standard scheduled oil change.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

does he have to tell u to put it in the gas and oil??? i mean, its on the can and all.
but anyways, yes, put half a can in the oil, half in the gas, and a whole can thru the temp sensor port. I do this every oil change and it has smoothed out my idle and my car pulls harder and just drives like butter.
about changing ur oil tho... i think it would be a good idea, since u will blow all kindsa stuff into ur oil, but u can prob drive for another hundred or so miles no prob.
i usually change mine after the treatment, and i redline the piss out of the car as i stay in low gear in my neighborhood. i let it idle for about 4 to 5 mins to help cool stuff down from the hard driving, and then shut her off and let it cool down for about an hour.
enjoy.


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## The Critic (Oct 12, 2006)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*

Does the engine cover need to be removed in order to gain access to the intake air temperature sensor?
Thanks.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (The Critic)*

You don't have to take it off, but it might be easier to get the bolt off and on with the cover off.


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## The Critic (Oct 12, 2006)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (jmj)*

Thanks! But as long as it's do-able with the cover on, that's fine. I guess it'll just be one of those projects that I shouldn't be doing at night.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (The Critic)*

If you drop it, it's probably gonna land on the top side of your belly pan. You can just pound on the bottom of the belly pan to shake it out.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

and this is why i love magnetic bits.


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (RedWabbitVR)*

Just to clear up, it is not "carbon buildup"as the carbon (hydrocarbons) would come from the fuel, which is not present in the intake runners of the head. We recently did an intake cleaning on an 06' fsi with ~ 50-60k. This particular car had water inj. installed, and the intake runners seemed not as bad as the majority of the other pictures posted on threads on this topic. I would also like to hear of anyone cleaning out the runners, and using water inj afterward, and their results.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (Dubmekanik)*

well, im going to be pulling mine this december, just as soon as i get a break from school and work, and i hope to be installing a W/M kit here in the next few weeks.
i now have a VTA pcv setup from EJ, so i should not be having any more oil ending up on my valves. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chisss (Jun 16, 2009)

What i would really like to see is a before and after pics running the seafoam or any of those cleaners... I own an 06 Passat 2.0 and a Mazdaspeed6 DISI and the mazda has the same issues... I have actually taken the intake manifold appart and the deposits are nasty but i have not run the seafoam yet.


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## VBMike P (Jun 25, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *chisss* »_What i would really like to see is a before and after pics running the seafoam or any of those cleaners... I own an 06 Passat 2.0 and a Mazdaspeed6 DISI and the mazda has the same issues... I have actually taken the intake manifold appart and the deposits are nasty but i have not run the seafoam yet.



Chances are you probably won't see those pictures. It is way too much of a hassle to take the intake manifold off to just see the condition of the valves, put it back on to only seafoam it then take the manifold back off again. I can tell you from my experience of pulling my intake manifold and cleaning my valves that seafoam was pretty weak against the deposits when I let it sit over night.


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## chisss (Jun 16, 2009)

So what's the best, least expensive way to clean them?


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## SocksA3 (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: (chisss)*

I have before and after pictures I snapped with a scope. But I don't have access to them right now to post. There was definitely a differance on my car. The before pic you can see the valve stems totally covered in black...on the after video you can see some shiny spots on the valves. It was not drastic, but some areas were completely clean. Done often enough (like every 5k) sea foam will IMO definitely help.


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## marsue (May 24, 2007)

*Re: (chisss)*

i might have a dumb question .... when i have it all done as it shows on your pics .... how do i manage the seafoam go into the ball needle?


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## SocksA3 (Dec 27, 2007)

*Re: (marsue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *marsue* »_i might have a dumb question .... when i have it all done as it shows on your pics .... how do i manage the seafoam go into the ball needle?










The seafoam will get sucked into the engine by crankcase vacume. This is done with the engine running.


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## ryangti (Oct 5, 2008)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (GT17V)*


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *SocksA3* »_
The seafoam will get sucked into the engine by crankcase vacume. This is done with the engine running.


so just to get this straight you put the basketball needle with the fuel line into the intake temp slot, turn the car on and put the needle into the seafoam till you empty the bottle? 
then off and plug it back up and start it again after the seafoam has settled? is it safe for the engine to be running for those seconds while the basketball needle is sucking in air?
just checking sorry for the dumb questions. i would like to do this after i get my catch can before every oil change.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

dont keep the needle in the liquid for more than a few seconds or u will stall her out our maybe even do some damage as liquid is alot harder to compress than air.
i usually put my seafoam into a glass cup and suck up a bit at a time, plug the hole, take it for a spin to break junk off the valves, come back, and keep sucking up seafoam till its done... then when the liquid is all gone, shut the car off, let it sit for about 15 mins to allow it to soak in, then drive it like u stole it.
try doing this at night tho or people will think ur car is a POS.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_dont keep the needle in the liquid for more than a few seconds or u will stall her out our maybe even do some damage as liquid is alot harder to compress than air.
i usually put my seafoam into a glass cup and suck up a bit at a time, plug the hole, take it for a spin to break junk off the valves, come back, and keep sucking up seafoam till its done... then when the liquid is all gone, shut the car off, let it sit for about 15 mins to allow it to soak in, then drive it like u stole it.
try doing this at night tho or people will think ur car is a POS.


ahh got it so like a shot glass worth at a time? what do you use to block off the hole?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

just barely submerge the needle... i actually tend to keep one of the holes on the basketball needles above the liquid just so i can keep sucking seafoam without having to worry about stalling her. it takes a bit of time, but in my experiences, it helps alot more than just sucking up a bunch at a time, letting the engine stumble and getting missfires.
and i cover the holes on the basketball needles by using a long cap made of rubber than i slide over it and tighten down... either that or i shut the car off, put the IAT sensor back in and take it for a spin.


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## ryangti (Oct 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*

i got alot of rough idle problems, will this smooth it out alot? i've used it before but instead i poured it directly into the oil. didnt help much.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*

not going to do too much pouring it into the oil IMO


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (ryangti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryangti* »_i got alot of rough idle problems, will this smooth it out alot? i've used it before but instead i poured it directly into the oil. didnt help much.

it should help out with ur idle, unless its PCV related.
also, adding to ur oil wont help a whole lot as its gonna just thin out already thinned out oil, and unless u have a crappy oil, it should be cleaning ur engine pretty well as is.
i usually put a can in the tank, and a can thru the mani.


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## ssunnylee24 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (dsire)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dsire* »_Remove the intake air temp sensor using a t30 torx.



1/4" fuel line (the heavy duty stuff with 1/2" OD) fits perfectly into the intake air sensor port, which is centrally located directly above the throttle body. This will distribute evenly to all four cylinders. 










A basketball needle fits perfectly inside and provides enough restriction that you can run without codes. It also will meter the valve cleaner at a rate of approx. 100-150 ml/min, which will prevent hydrolocking the engine. (calcs based on a 0.5 to 0.6 mm diameter opening in the needle, and an intake vacuum of 20" of hg (approx. -10 psig) 








Leave the intake air sensor electrically connected so you do not get any faults. It will still sense the air temp, albeit a little off.

Do not goose the throttle with it connected. You want the intake under vacuum, and not boost pressure.

The active ingredient in the valve cleaner is naptha. The good German Ventil Sauber (valve cleaner) is about twice the concentration as the domestic Seafoam, but you get twice as much Seafoam for your buck.

Use a longer fuel line than I have shown so you can dip into the can. 


I followed this procedure and got a CEL.
But I did unplug the intake air sensor and that could be the reason why I have CEL on.
Also, CEL came on when I first started the car with the needle in the can sucking the Seafoam. I think it sucked up the seafoam pretty quickly, I shouldn't have the needle sunkin in to the bottle.
I'm going to bring it to the dealership to check out the CEL and MFD issues I've been having.


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## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (ssunnylee24)*

yeah no kidding. it's a misfire - clear the code.


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## ssunnylee24 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (vliou)*

Okay.
Glad it's nothing biggie, thanks.


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## ssunnylee24 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: Oil-related intake valve deposits (vliou)*

Okay, I brought my car to the dealership and told them I'm getting misfires.
They replaced my coils and I replaced spark plugs to NGK Iridium ones.
But it seems like I'm still getting misfires when I cold start the car.
It doesn't start right up it bogs/misfires? for a second than starts up.
I haven't Vag'd yet since I got coils/plugs replaced but what I can tell is ever since I Seafoam'd my car, it hesitates on cold start ups and more fume smell (like I have a Catless DP).
p.s I have a catted GHL DP.


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## ajz9415 (Feb 7, 2005)

*Re: (saaber2)*

Marked for later http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## awb17x (Jun 20, 2008)

*FV-QR*

I just did this and threw a cel as well 
P0300 Misfire multiple
Cylinder 3 misfire p0301
Cylinder 2 misfire p0302

Cleared them though but my vag com will be here tomorrow so ill look more into it


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## just-jean (Sep 14, 2006)

bump so it comes up on a search


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