# 4cyl to 5cyl help and thoughts



## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

Guys I have a 4cyl 1.8 passat and fell in love with the sound of the 5cyl . My problem is that I haven't enough room to fit the 5cyl + its gearbox in the bay its 6 inches away from lining up with drive shafts and can't come forward any more . Any advice would be much appreciated. Could I adapt the 4cyl gearbox to fit the 5cyl? Im from ireland hence its a passat . You guys rock :wave:


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## QuantumSyncro (Apr 28, 2000)

b2dog said:


> Guys I have a 4cyl 1.8 passat and fell in love with the sound of the 5cyl . My problem is that I haven't enough room to fit the 5cyl + its gearbox in the bay its 6 inches away from lining up with drive shafts and can't come forward any more . Any advice would be much appreciated. Could I adapt the 4cyl gearbox to fit the 5cyl? Im from ireland hence its a passat . You guys rock :wave:


You have to get rid of the 4 cyl radiator and AC condenser and swap to the 5 cyl versions which sit offset of the engine, otherwise it won't fit in there.

Steve


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## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

QuantumSyncro said:


> You have to get rid of the 4 cyl radiator and AC condenser and swap to the 5 cyl versions which sit offset of the engine, otherwise it won't fit in there.
> 
> Steve


No ac and radiator out still no joy , the issue nlies with the gearbox from the 5cyl not lining up with the hubs .


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## QuantumSyncro (Apr 28, 2000)

b2dog said:


> No ac and radiator out still no joy , the issue nlies with the gearbox from the 5cyl not lining up with the hubs .


What year passat are you talking about here? Unless it's a pre-5 cylinder car it should fit with no problem. If it's earlier then there will be issues.

The 4 cyl gearbox won't bolt to the 5 cylinder engine and vice versa. The only gearbox I know of that has both patterns is from the 88 Audi 80 q.

Steve


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## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

QuantumSyncro said:


> What year passat are you talking about here? Unless it's a pre-5 cylinder car it should fit with no problem. If it's earlier then there will be issues.
> 
> The 4 cyl gearbox won't bolt to the 5 cylinder engine and vice versa. The only gearbox I know of that has both patterns is from the 88 Audi 80 q.
> 
> Steve



passat is 1986 year , engine and box is from audi gt coupe could i get an adapter plate made to fit the 4+e box


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## QuantumSyncro (Apr 28, 2000)

b2dog said:


> passat is 1986 year , engine and box is from audi gt coupe could i get an adapter plate made to fit the 4+e box


Shouldn't be any problem getting the fiver into the 86 chassis. What's the obstruction that won't let you move it forward far enough?

There shouldn't be any difference in the substructure of the Coupe GT vs the Passat, not by 86. Did you switch to the fiver sub frame? The engine mounting is completely different between the two, the five cylinder uses hydro mounts in different positions.

Changing gearbox won't solve your problem with this.

Steve


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## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

QuantumSyncro said:


> Shouldn't be any problem getting the fiver into the 86 chassis. What's the obstruction that won't let you move it forward far enough?
> 
> There shouldn't be any difference in the substructure of the Coupe GT vs the Passat, not by 86. Did you switch to the fiver sub frame? The engine mounting is completely different between the two, the five cylinder uses hydro mounts in different positions.
> 
> ...


Engine mounting not a problem it sits in but the gearbox needs to come forward more to line up with the drive shafts


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## skopek (Jun 16, 2007)

5speed gearbox code for 5cyl vw b2:
abv 
abt
hd
2v
2w
3n
7k
qf
vw


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## QuantumSyncro (Apr 28, 2000)

b2dog said:


> Engine mounting not a problem it sits in but the gearbox needs to come forward more to line up with the drive shafts


Post some pictures, lets see what's actually going on with this. If the engine / gearbox came from a Coupe GT there's no reason it shouldn't go right into the Passat with the correct sub frame and mounts.

You say there's no problem with the mounts but if things aren't lining up there's a problem somewhere. This donor chassis should be identical to the recipient in this case.

Steve


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## skopek (Jun 16, 2007)

Show pictures with your mounts. How they welded. 

fx.


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## ChrisM (Sep 13, 1999)

I've had both 4 and 5 cyl Quantums and the front structures are very different. As QuantumSyncro mentioned, the 5 cyl engine mounts are attached to brackets welded onto the frame rails, while the 4 cyl mounts are attached to ears on the subframe. A car that started as a 4 cyl needs to have the 5 cyl brackets welded on, as shown in skopek's pics. Also, the radiator supports are different. The crossmember part is much thinner on the 5cyl than it is on the 4cyl to allow clearance for the front of the engine. Actually, it's not a radiator support in the 5 cyl since there is no room to fit the radiator across the front and this is why the radiator is offset to the side on 5 cyls. I think it would be much easier to convert a 5 to a 4 than a 4 to a 5.


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## skopek (Jun 16, 2007)

swap 4--> 5cyl just see a pics on my page
http://skopek.interarena.pl/info3.php


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## QuantumSyncro (Apr 28, 2000)

That's right, I had forgotten on the B2 chassis that the mount brackets are welded in place and don't use the sub frame at all. I don't know why I forgot that, I was considering converting an 89 Audi90 to 1.9 TDI and knew the brackets had to be cut out.

Yes, the front cross member might also be different and in particular the upper rad support is very thin where the engine sits forward almost in to the grille itself.

It looks like your brackets are positioned properly so is it a matter of the upper rad support in front hitting the front of the engine? You said that the engine bolts into place properly so something is amiss here.

Steve


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## skopek (Jun 16, 2007)

I dont have any problem. User b2dog having. 
My mounts fits properly so he could compare


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## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

skopek said:


> I dont have any problem. User b2dog having.
> My mounts fits properly so he could compare


sorry if im being vague , have modified crossmember and mounts like in skopeks photos but gearbox wont line up and looks look yours was a 4 cyl also .got any more pic's , I appreciate all the help .


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## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

Checked out skopeks epic build pictures which is a great help just a couple of questions if you don't mind. 
1 did you do anything to the 4cyl subframe
2 did you use the 5cyl gearbox did it line up for you and finally 
3 could you give me a measurement from centre of driveshaft to back of the engine block

Thanks for all the help guys


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## skopek (Jun 16, 2007)

b2dog said:


> 1 did you do anything to the 4cyl subframe


i changed on that from 5 cyl. I heard from my friend who did a swap and tryied with 4cyl subframe. He said something about not fitting where is oil pan.



b2dog said:


> 2 did you use the 5cyl gearbox did it line up for you and finally


yes i mounted gearbox abv. everything fits perfect.


b2dog said:


> 3 could you give me a measurement from centre of driveshaft to back of the engine block


ok. i will check today. my car dont have a suspension now, im buiding airride  so should be easy to measure.


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## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

Great thanks very much


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## skopek (Jun 16, 2007)

I measured in a few places.

I measured from center drive shaft to the subframe front bolt. (driver side)
~25 cm






















I think here you have a problem. Wrong mount. Do you have exactly like below?









If still is not enough for you. Please make self measurement with photo and show me then i will check.


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## b2dog (Jan 24, 2013)

That's great thanks will , the subframe is most probably the biggest problem thanks for taking the time to measure it up for me , best of luck with your air ride build.


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## skopek (Jun 16, 2007)

b2dog said:


> That's great thanks will , the subframe is most probably the biggest problem thanks for taking the time to measure it up for me , best of luck with your air ride build.



No problem. Dont forget to write later what exactly was the problem in your case 
cheers


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