# Angry salesman or am I being paranoid



## pilot2005 (Dec 3, 2004)

I am shopping for around a car. Wife and myself Went down to the local dealer and test drove a car. Told salesman (Let's just call him Mondo for now) upfront after that I will work with him through emails and looking for the best deals. We bailed out after the test drive thanks to our babysitter calling and telling us the baby was crying hysterically. We were only 5 minutes from home. We were in the middle of the sales manager / sales guy combo pitch of "what it takes to buy today". I absolutely hate when they try any of that high pressure stuff.

Fast forward a few days after getting a few quotes through emails/phone, I sent a slightly lowball offer to the local salesguy Mondo by email. I asked him if he does not like my quote to give me a counter offer. He refused and a few more emails of insisting that I come down to the dealership to talk in person and a few more emails later of him "checking" with the manager and tells me my offer is completely out of line and still refuses a counter offer. He stated he is not playing games. So at that point, I asked him to stop "checking with his manager game" and either give me the best price by email or we call it a day. Apparently that made him very upset somehow. My choice of words are usually politically neutral enough not to offend anyone but he goes on to tell me I'm gullible and being lied to by other dealers. He said I wasted his time test driving the car with him and "go have fun being played with". 

Now I am suddenly receiving an influx of emails/phone calls from dealers I am certain I did not contact with fake names. I always use my real name if I am truely interested in getting in touch with a dealer. I suspect this angry sales guy is doing it but have no proof. I am trying to get proof by examinining email header and asking the IT companies servicing the dealer networks if they can provide who filled out the contact form for the originating IP source. Its probably a lost cause but I sent out request to two dealer networks (DealerUps and eleadtrack.net). I figured if I can get an IP address, I can see who owns it and then send a request to that network for help or at least a warning that they can pass to the user of the IP address they're violating the EULA.

FYI I used Zag/TrueCar as a starting point for my negotiation and took $500 off from that price since I found out dealer pays somewhere around $300 for the lead if you use those services. So I figure truecar price - $lead - $200 = starting point to negotiate and go up from there. I already received some quotes right on the dot of the truecar pricing so I wasn't completely out of line to make someone angry. I mean hey even if I am completely out of line, just ignore me or just give me what I want over email Am I being paranoid thinking I anger the sales guy and he's doing this or it's me that somehow invoked all these emails.


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## SinisterMind (Feb 27, 2004)

You angered him because he can't pressure you into buying if you're at home. He wants you in the showroom. I'd move on to another salesguy or dealer. I bought my wife's car buy settling on price through email. Went the next day to test drive and buy it for the price that was agreed.


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## american gigolo (Dec 16, 2001)

in the car sales business, the salesman should always try to close the sale on the day of. Asking for the business "what will it take for you to buy the car today?" is part of the process. Why wouldn't the salesman ask you this? It would be ridicules if they didn't.

As for not wanting to give you his "best price" quote via e-mail, I wouldn't either. Buyers are horrible people for the most part, and will buy a car at another dealer, with someone who hasn't done any work, for $10 less than his quote. "Mondo" may have spent time with you, qualified you, helped you select a car, and then demo drove with you. For this he is not paid. He would not be paid until you take delivery of your new car purchased through him. Many people have no morals, and would gladly waste a salespersons time, and then buy the car down the street for $10 less.


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## Maximum_Download (May 17, 2010)

First, you didn't do your research. You should KNOW how much the car costs. You look up the invoice price of the exact car you want, find the invoice price, and use Edmunds TMV to generate a fair selling price. Your negotiation skills decide the rest. You also need to be pre-approved with financing.

You would have gotten a better response from "Mondo" with the following statement:

"Mondo:

I am pre-approved with a loan. I know the invoice of the car is X with options and destination. Your holdback is approximately Y. My offer is Z, and I am prepared to give you a $500 deposit via credit card right now if we can agree to my price. If so, I will be in tomorrow to sign papers and pick it up. Do we have a deal?"

This is direct, to the point, and gives all indications that not only are you looking to buy a car, but you are prepared to back those words up with cold hard cash. I promise you the reaction to this would have been much different.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2010)

"Mondo" still should have handled everything far better, and if he can't work with people via the web or phone in today's market, he will not make many sales. He made some amount of time investment with the client, and had the best chance to close the sale.

Regarding the influx of emails...you sent your info to at least 2 third party sites for quotes. Some dealers take a few days to reply, some longer.


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## Maximum_Download (May 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> "Mondo" still should have handled everything far better, and if he can't work with people via the web or phone in today's market, he will not make many sales. He made some amount of time investment with the client, and had the best chance to close the sale.
> 
> Regarding the influx of emails...you sent your info to at least 2 third party sites for quotes. Some dealers take a few days to reply, some longer.


While I agree with you, as someone who has sat on your side of the table (and for a competitor, no less) I find that buyers could make their lives a lot easier by doing their homework ahead of time, and when they contact a dealer, they are already pretty much ready to go.

If I need to do some fact finding or test driving, I do NOT talk price with the salesperson at all. I tell them I am only test driving, not buying, but giving me their card and their time would guarantee I would work with them in the future.

When I research a car, I don't have to shop the dealer's price.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2010)

GolfVIDriver said:


> I find that buyers could make their lives a lot easier by doing their homework ahead of time, and when they contact a dealer, they are already pretty much ready to go.


Agreed, good thing for Volkswagen, they have the highest % of customers that research the web prior to their initial visit at a showroom. Its like 97% or something really high like that.


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## pilot2005 (Dec 3, 2004)

Mondo did have the best chance at earnining my business. Lets get this straight, buying a car is big purchase and not taken lightly. I took about 1 hour of Mondo's time and no more. I did not want to discuss price at the dealer and told Mondo that straight up before the test drive and emails will be my primary contact after the test drive. Lets be clear about this also, buyers are not responsible to make sure the sales guy gets paid. Sad to hear a buyer would go somewhere else for a $10 saving (really hard to believe as it cost me $20 easily these days to go to another dealer just in gas). 

The rest of the followup I was prepared. Already had my financing set and stated up front to all dealers I contacted. The problem I am presenting here is a nasty little sales guy that got angry and refused to work pricing over emails. Some of you guys are making a lot of assumptions or in your own world to what I posted. I don't negotiate inside a dealer. I purchased my last 2 cars simply emailing giving my starting offer and let them give me their best non bs offer.


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## Knight2000 (Jan 5, 2010)

pilot2005 said:


> Mondo did have the best chance at earnining my business. Lets get this straight, buying a car is big purchase and not taken lightly. I took about 1 hour of Mondo's time and no more. I did not want to discuss price at the dealer and told Mondo that straight up before the test drive and emails will be my primary contact after the test drive. Lets be clear about this also, buyers are not responsible to make sure the sales guy gets paid. Sad to hear a buyer would go somewhere else for a $10 saving (really hard to believe as it cost me $20 easily these days to go to another dealer just in gas).
> 
> The rest of the followup I was prepared. Already had my financing set and stated up front to all dealers I contacted. The problem I am presenting here is a nasty little sales guy that got angry and refused to work pricing over emails. Some of you guys are making a lot of assumptions or in your own world to what I posted. I don't negotiate inside a dealer. I purchased my last 2 cars simply emailing giving my starting offer and let them give me their best non bs offer.



One hour or four hours - you still wasted his time. And he does not get paid for it. As someone stated, it is a sales person's job to try and close the deal the day you are there ... obviously, you need a car, and he had the car you want. It matched up. So many times while selling cars I lost deals because another dealer beat my price by $100 -- ESPECIALLY if it was IN WRITING in an E-MAIL. That's why he didn't want to do it. All you had to do was take that price to another dealer and let someone else make a commission for doing no work.

Another thing that really ticks off sales people is the "give me your lowest price." Why? So he doesn't make any money. That's bull. I would NEVER walk into YOUR business and say, "I'm only going to pay you what you paid for the item." You would laugh at me ... so you offered below the cost of the car AND below what the dealer paid for the lead. There's no money in that. I'm glad he let you walk.

As for the e-mails you are receiving ... try looking at the websites you used to get the quotes, first. If they get paid per lead, maybe the site is creating fake names with your e-mail address to other dealers. Maybe the sales guy has nothing to do with it.

Sales people pay the same bills you do. Give them a break, for gosh sake!! If they don't sell you something at a profit, they don't make money, and they can't feed their families. You try working for nothing...I'm sure that you won't like it. Look for the best deal, but also look for a good sales person. The days of the $100k/yr sales person is gone ... at one time I made around $75,000 a year selling cars -- when I left, I was selling MORE cars for about $35,000 a year, and working harder to do it.


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## pilot2005 (Dec 3, 2004)

Knight2000, you gone off in a tangent and throwing a lot of words into my mouth that I'm not stating. You're in your own la la land of venting your angry days of being a car salesman. Losing a sale is one thing, but acting completely unprofessional is another which was the point of this thread. So basically you're telling me on such a big purchase I have no rights to go test drive a anywhere unless I buy it the same day without doing any shopping? Why I believe this douche sales guy spam me is because whenever I fill out contact informations on dealer websites, I used my real name. The spams I received were directed to me using fake name as "Jack hoff". The spams came about an hour after his angry email to me.

Car salesman time is not worth $1000/Hr or even $150/hour for the matter. Don't give me the bs of losing sales when there's also the strong likely hood you picked up the same kind of sales without doing any work. You wonder why people hate car sales guy and there's a billion car negotiating tip websites. I'm happy for you that you left this sleazy profession. I respect sales professionals generally but not specifically car salesman. If I can save $100 by emailing around for the best deals, then hell I will take it. You make it sound like $100 is easy to come by.


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## Sold Over Sticker (Nov 29, 2009)

Sounds like a lot of babies in the car business have found forums, and love to vent back to customers. Hi guys! :wave:

A salesman has one duty. Get the customer to commit to buying a car from him. If the customers requests include only email me on the Sprint Now Network between the hours of 18:30 and 18:35 GMT using a hacked iPhone, they should do it. 

Also, I hate sales guys who complain about having their time wasted. Bull Sheeet. What, did that customer pull you away from arranging the lot, playing Minesweeper, flirting with the receptionist, smoking a cigarette, or any other very important task. I can just hear it now..."I was going to cure cancer, but I got stuck going on a demo with a customer who is in the market to buy a car, and my important time was wasted."

Now, did the sales guy take your contact info and spam it around? Maybe. I've heard of worse. What's your recourse? Call the receptionist, and ask for the name of the owner. Be nice. Now, apply the his first and last name to the email address structure that Mondo's email is based off of. Example [email protected] would generate [email protected] if I owned the place. Email the owner, and let him know that you are in the market to buy a car, and this is why you wont buy from him. 

Finally, the salesguy doesn't determine the pricing, so in 99% of the cases, he literally has to talk with his manager. If one of my salestools shook hands with a customer on a slim deal without getting approval they'd get a lot of retraining, and a lot of grunt work around the store. Do it a few times and we'll let you do it for someone else's store. There is always going to be the back and forth, but a savvy salesmen knows how to do it. Even the "come in and talk" is being pushed by his manager, and if the store isn't internet savvy as a whole, go buy somewhere else.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

Knight2000 said:


> One hour or four hours - you still wasted his time.


Sounds as if he used the time effectively, learning about the vehicle he was contemplating. The idea that as a salesman your time is wasted if each specific communication doesn't result in an immediate sale doesn't sound like the attitude of someone who understands how to sell things over time.



Knight2000 said:


> And he does not get paid for it.


The compensation an employee salesman gets is a matter between the employer and employee, not the consumer.



Knight2000 said:


> Another thing that really ticks off sales people is the "give me your lowest price." Why? So he doesn't make any money. That's bull. I would NEVER walk into YOUR business and say, "I'm only going to pay you what you paid for the item."


That doesn't follow. If your lowest price permits you to make a profit, then the customer isn't seeking anything substantively wrong.

What is wrong with "What is your lowest price?" or "What is your best price?" is that it ignores haggling etiquette. Buyer and seller trade numbers and surround it with irrelevent conversation. "What is your best price?" invites a person to lie. That isn't gracious.


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## Maximum_Download (May 17, 2010)

pilot2005 said:


> Mondo did have the best chance at earnining my business. Lets get this straight, buying a car is big purchase and not taken lightly. I took about 1 hour of Mondo's time and no more. I did not want to discuss price at the dealer and told Mondo that straight up before the test drive and emails will be my primary contact after the test drive. Lets be clear about this also, buyers are not responsible to make sure the sales guy gets paid. Sad to hear a buyer would go somewhere else for a $10 saving (really hard to believe as it cost me $20 easily these days to go to another dealer just in gas).
> 
> The rest of the followup I was prepared. Already had my financing set and stated up front to all dealers I contacted. The problem I am presenting here is a nasty little sales guy that got angry and refused to work pricing over emails. Some of you guys are making a lot of assumptions or in your own world to what I posted. I don't negotiate inside a dealer. I purchased my last 2 cars simply emailing giving my starting offer and let them give me their best non bs offer.



You gave him no inclination of purchasing. That's where you made your mistake. He showed poor customer service, but had you showed more inclination of purchasing, he would have responded better.

And you don't need to hear an offer from a dealer. You should have done your research ahead of time and KNOWN what the price was, which meant the only offer needed in this deal was from you.

ESPECIALLY if you are dealing in email, you need to show the dealer that having him provide you with pricing discussions will result in a purchase.

THat's why you got treated the way you did. Lesson learned for next time.

Disclosure: I used to sell cars, and I bought my Golf 100% over email. So it CAN be done if you know what you are doing. In my case, I emailed the sales manager and stated the following:

"I am pre-approved, and prepared to put a $500 deposit down via credit card right now if we can agree to the terms. I am looking for a white Golf 2 door 2.5L 5 speed. I want a sunroof, CWP, and bluetooth. That generates an MSRP of $XX,XXX. The invoice price I have is $XX,XXX. Your holdback appears to be $XXX, and destination is $XXX.

Based on apparant stock in the Chicago area, I am prepared to offer $XX,XXX, and I can back it with a deposit. Can you get the car, and do we have a deal?"

The only thing he has to say is "Yes/No" and "Yes/No".


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## rapyoke (Jan 15, 2010)

GolfVIDriver said:


> You gave him no inclination of purchasing. That's where you made your mistake. He showed poor customer service, but had you showed more inclination of purchasing, he would have responded better.
> 
> ...
> 
> THat's why you got treated the way you did. Lesson learned for next time.


You really make it seem like this salesguy is doing him a favor by selling him this car.

If I was the OP, I would simply shoot an email to the owner of the dealership and mention the salesman's unprofessional behavior. Regardless of how you behaved, saying "have fun getting lied to be other dealers" or anything of that nature is really not appropriate.


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## rapyoke (Jan 15, 2010)

american gigolo said:


> As for not wanting to give you his "best price" quote via e-mail, I wouldn't either. Buyers are horrible people for the most part, and will buy a car at another dealer, with someone who hasn't done any work, for $10 less than his quote. "Mondo" may have spent time with you, qualified you, helped you select a car, and then demo drove with you. For this he is not paid. He would not be paid until you take delivery of your new car purchased through him. Many people have no morals, and would gladly waste a salespersons time, and then buy the car down the street for $10 less.


I don't get it. Wouldn't emailing a best price save you this hassle? The only reason dealers want customers to come down is so they can apply pressure. Doing a 15 minute test drive and looking through the brochure at possible color combinations is not incredibly time consuming.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

GolfVIDriver said:


> ESPECIALLY if you are dealing in email, you need to show the dealer that having him provide you with pricing discussions will result in a purchase.
> 
> THat's why you got treated the way you did. Lesson learned for next time.


This is incorrect. He was treated badly because the saleman in this case lacked the self-possession to handle his own frustration. Sadly, showing his frustration may have queered an opportunity to sell a car.

If you are dealing by email, there is nothing wrong with asking what they would sell a car for, and if they are intersted in selling, they will give you a number well below sticker.



rapyoke said:


> I don't get it. Wouldn't emailing a *best price *save you this hassle?


It would also cost the seller money because lots of buyers buy cars for more than the seller's "best price".

If you only want one price from the seller, a way to communicate that would be to ask him for "a single take-it-or-leave-it number" so he knows he only has one chance. Asking for the "best price" is rude because it asks for something to which a buyer is not entitled. It is sort of like a salesman asking what you would be comfortable paying monthly.


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## Jrod511 (Apr 29, 2009)

rapyoke said:


> I don't get it. Wouldn't emailing a best price save you this hassle?


Emailing a best price is a pretty good way to never, ever get a sale. 





rapyoke said:


> The only reason dealers want customers to come down is so they can apply pressure.


No, it's to qualify the buyer as a legitimate customer. 



rapyoke said:


> Doing a 15 minute test drive and looking through the brochure at possible color combinations is not incredibly time consuming.


NOTHING at a car dealership takes 15 minutes. Ever. And that time consumed jerking someone around means they aren't "up" for the next potential customer that comes in.


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## pilot2005 (Dec 3, 2004)

This is my last response to this thread - I'm not taking any further action and just leaving as it is because its a waste of time and I have no proof of anything other then his rude email. There's no point escalating and getting him in trouble. I was venting myself because its a huge hassle shopping for cars because you have to be prepared mentally. I did not expected this kind of rude behavior. I did do exactly what many have said and I'm 100% sure I did not wasted anyone's time especially mine since that's most important. I jerked nobody around. I have purchased my car and moved on.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2010)

Knight2000 said:


> Another thing that really ticks off sales people is the "give me your lowest price."


 :screwy: As a sales person, I love hearing this question....because it is a *BUYING* question. 

As it relates to completing deals via email, or by whatever other means than coming into the dealer....I've sold cars to people states away without meeting them until the date of delivery. 

Agreed this thread went a bad direction with so many posts blaming the customer for the salesperson's frustration, that's kind of funny to me....I heard a owner say one time to a rookie salesman "If there weren't for jerks, we wouldn't sell any cars." 

Our job is pretty simple mostly, and we as salespeople must be prepared for all the typical statements and questions from our prospective customers....if Mondo can't handle "what's your best price?" he's in the wrong business.


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## Maximum_Download (May 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> :screwy: As a sales person, I love hearing this question....because it is a *BUYING* question.
> 
> As it relates to completing deals via email, or by whatever other means than coming into the dealer....I've sold cars to people states away without meeting them until the date of delivery.
> 
> ...


 In a perfect world, you are 100% correct. But you and I both know its not a perfect world. To do the job right, the buyer has to have his sh!t together, and he needs to be ready to engage a salesman in a business transaction. 

My advice was done to basically hand a salesperson a deal on a silver platter and remove all negotiation from the transaction. This ensures a good deal, and minimal time wasted so the buyer can get the deal done, and the salesperson can get back on the floor with some money in his pocket and a very short amount of time invested. Its a win win for both parties. 

If you are ready to buy, you need to have your numbers together, correct, and a budget analysis done. You need to have financing pre-arranged, know what your credit score is, and how much the car should cost (within, say, $100 or so). This way, there are no surprises at the dealer. All of this stuff is on the internet, there is absolutely ZERO reason to ask for a price from the dealer. And if you don't have this information together, it IS your fault. You didn't do your due diligence. Can a dealer take up the slack? Sure! Is it his job? It can be. Should you have done it ahead of time to ensure you know what deal you're getting? YEP! 

Did the dealer act unprofessionally? YEs, and the OP should just pack up and take his business elsewhere. But lets examine WHY he was treated wrongly, and maybe learn a lesson from it. Just because the dealer was wrong doesn't absolve the OP. He should have KNOWN what the price was.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

GolfVIDriver said:


> My advice was done to basically hand a salesperson a deal on a silver platter and remove all negotiation from the transaction.


 Yours is a method of negotiation. 



GolfVIDriver said:


> ...there is absolutely ZERO reason to ask for a price from the dealer.


 Except, of course, that the dealer has the car and his consent is required to sell it at a specific price. 



GolfVIDriver said:


> He should have KNOWN what the price was.


 A buyer should know how much he will pay. He can't know the price of a transaction until it has been transacted. Preparation is good, but what a buyer expects is not the only moving part to an agreement.


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## Maximum_Download (May 17, 2010)

zukiphile said:


> Yours is a method of negotiation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
How much to pay is a function of preparation, and through preparation, you can usually find out what the COST (not the price) of the car is, and design an offer based on that cost. 

Therefore, you don't need an opening price from the dealer, because you know every dealer will "hit you high". YOU make the first offer, and if its reasonable the only thing the dealer has to say is YES or NO. 

Its that simple. Bought many cars that way, and that way is a result of selling cars and seeing the mistakes buyers made.


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## zukiphile (Oct 28, 2000)

GolfVIDriver said:


> Therefore, you don't need an opening price from the dealer, because you know every dealer will "hit you high". YOU make the first offer, and if its reasonable the only thing the dealer has to say is YES or NO.
> 
> Its that simple. Bought many cars that way, ...


 And you likely paid more than if you had negotiated conventionally. Haggling has an etiquette that lots of people here don't enjoy because it is infrequently employed by us. We mostly negotiate homes and cars, but lots of other people negotiate the price of many grocery items. You can buy figs in Beruit by saying "Five figs for two american? YES OR NO!", but this will only insure that you don't get your five for two. 

It also isn't quite as simple as you describe. Internet research, while valuable and important, will not tell you whether your purchase brings the dealer to a manufacturer's incentive target or how much he wants your putative car to be gone.


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## mauslick (Aug 9, 2000)

one of the greatest events of this decade was the shutting down of dealerships........ 
the owner on down got their karma paid to them......... 
these people would shake down grandmothers, cripples, iilterates and the homeless to push a car onto someone....... 
and they talk about customer morals?.........give me a f*cking break......... 

many salesboy conversations are bragging about how much they fleeced some sucker for every add on in the book plus worked them in the finance dept. and then some buyer comes in and makes it hard for the salesguy and he cries foul!............give me a f*cking break 

get out of the car business, move to more honorable sales jobs like real estate, mortgage broker, banker...........all stand up businesses............hahahahahahahahahahahah 'choke' 
there's always time share............ahahahahahahahahah 'gag'


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Buying a car is a very easy process that a lot of people over-complicate for any number of reasons. 

Here's how you can make it a pleasant experience:

1. Narrow your scope before going into any dealerships. If you're between a Ford Mustang and a Honda Odyssey...you have some soul searching left to do. Save everyone some time and think it through before walking into a dealership;

2. Once you've narrowed your field, do your homework on Edmunds.com or a related site to collect invoice and retail prices. Print out that information and bring it with you to the dealership.

3. Go to the dealership. Tell the salesperson, "I'm here to drive X as I am comparing it to Y" or "I'm considering X but have not yet driven it and would like to try it today."

3. When asked, "Are you ready to buy today?" answer honestly. If you say "no" and the salesperson refuses to work with you, ask for someone else willing to give you the test drive or go to another dealer;

4. After the drive, and if you are ready to negotiate and want to make it fairly painless, offer $500 over invoice for the car. Most dealerships will take an easy offer/quick deal on a readily available car pretty much immediately. Ask for the car's invoice. Most reputable dealers will have no problem showing them to you. This is very handy if/when the data you have is incomplete (often the case), missing things like advertising fees and port fees.

5. If the car is in high demand, expect to pay more. If you want to chew every penny out of the dealership, remember that the sales team can be your friend. Let them make a few bucks and they'll be sure to keep the heat on the service department should you have to come back in the future. Squeeze blood out of the salespeople and they won't really be crazy about you. Common sense.

Overall, at all times if you have a salesperson with whom you do not get along or don't like to work with, move on. It's not worth stressing out. Remember: _it's just a car._

Each of my new car buying experiences have been absolutely painless, one hour affairs. Once I was in a position to buy, I narrowed my field, drove the cars I was interested in, offered $500 over invoice, verified the invoice on that specific car with the salesperson and then either waited for delivery or took it that day. No pain, no fuss, no muss. Don't make it harder than you have to.

Information, planning and politeness are all it takes.


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## saimasta (Jun 23, 2010)

As a salesperson at a Volkswagen dealer myself I deal with all sorts of offers. Like all the above posted statements, do all of your homework. 

Everyone salesperson has different selling techniques and tactics. In the end, everyone needs to make money and like any sort of sales jobs you need to make money on the deal to put food on the table. 

The most common sales question is: "What does it take to earn your business today?" Many people can take it anyway they want. I like to cut to the chase. I am not afraid to show invoices of cars to customers because there is always a misconception that dealers have thousands marked up. In a typical new Volkswagen, its lucky there is $1,000.00. 

If you show up at the dealership you're most likely in a market for a car unless you're there just to get information on products. 

If you don't like your salesperson ask to work with someone else! 

Buy happy!


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## mauslick (Aug 9, 2000)

the service/parts dept is the profit base for the dealership the car is the loss leader.........so the sales guys suffer


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## pilot2005 (Dec 3, 2004)

Aurelolster said:


> why are you paranoid about it? It may not happen and think of all the time you've lost/wasted worrying about it. Isn't there anything positive you can focus on besides the end of the world, which may not come in your life time? Could you get a degree or work on getting a better job or a promotion on your current job? Couldn't you learn to play a musical instrument or write a novel or do something, anything PRODUCTIVE with this wonderful like you've been given?


You chose to make your very first post with the above nonsense? I'll entertain your response of which I did not give this more then an hour's thought. Welcome to the vortex.


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## Sold Over Sticker (Nov 29, 2009)

pilot2005 said:


> You chose to make your very first post with the above nonsense? I'll entertain your response of which I did not give this more then an hour's thought. Welcome to the vortex.


It's spam. Check the sig link. That's why I don't buy "inbound link building campaigns" from offshore businesses, as they do that. 

At least when I do it myself (see my signature), there is almost always some value to my posts...unless I'm posting in OT. :laugh:


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## turbo chuck (Feb 16, 2011)

My last car purchase was about as painless as possible. I researched pricing on line and set up a test drive at the nearest dealership (City VW) claiming to have the model I wanted in stock. I took my test drive and loved the car. I also told the salesman I was going to pay cash and the price range I was willing to pay. It turns out the dealer did not have any new models in stock and wanted to sell me the demo I test drove at a slight discount ($1,000.00 less with 3500 miles). I insisted on a new car and the manager allegedly searched the VW network and could not find any. I was not ready to pull the trigger so we parted ways on good terms.

By the time I got home I got another, lower quote from another dealer (Jennings VW). As I was on my way to Jennings I recalled a bad experience my fiance had with their Chevy dealership several years previously. I called the Autobarn to see if they had any 2010 WB Jettas in stock. They thought they did so I changed course to the Autobarn. I arrived and none were in stock but were certain they could get one. They confirmed availability and agreed to match the quote from Jennings. Within 15 minutes my new car was ordered and I paid my $500.00 deposit. Ten days later I returned with my cashiers check to pick up my car.

Since City VW would only sell a used car for almost what I eventually paid for a new one , they will never have my business. Based on what previously occurred at Jennings Chevy they will probably not get my business. The Autobarn was everything the car buying experience should be and the next time I am in the market the will get the first shot.


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## a5gunner (Mar 8, 2011)

I think the Salesman could of been nicer to you. If there is any anger or problems involve, I without question wouldn't hesitate going somewhere else. If you have problems with a dealership there are plenty more that you can check out. 

For all deals and quotes, I would do it in person that way you can see about the talking to manager and negotiate easier.


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## Merckx (Apr 20, 2002)

What I find a little frustrating is solidly upper middle-class people who try to squeeze every last dollar on the deal. I'd often been told what I used to think an untrue and trite expression, that those who pay least for the car seem to be joyless people who don't get much satisfaction. After selling cars for a while, I've come to realize the truth in that statement.

Of course, bargin hard to get a very low price. But don't become selfish and self-centered to get the car for the vry lowest, bottom dollar price. No one wins at that...

And taking the salesman's time is certainly an issue. I had a family who drove 4 cars with me on a busy Saturday, only to buy another brand because the owner was a "friend".

You can't just blithly say, "How the salesman gets paid isn't my concern". Any transaction you enter with a wholly self-centered perspective is bound to end unhappily...


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## Sold Over Sticker (Nov 29, 2009)

I worked in sales for years, and when I help friends buy cars outside of my dealership, the salesman's commission is the least of my worries. If he doesn't get paid enough to support his standard of living, he should find another job. :beer:


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## Merckx (Apr 20, 2002)

I remain shocked at the selfish selfcenteredness of the comfortably middle-class...People who can think no further than how soft their own nest is are to be pittied....


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## Sold Over Sticker (Nov 29, 2009)

Well a salesman's commission structure is based on metrics of profitability that don't exist now, so his work hosing him on his pay when a car is purchased for market value has nothing to do with me. Obfuscating the bottom line in a deal makes the customer pay more, and in return, reduces the earning potential of the salesman, as both parties don't understand the big picture. 

Again, if he doesn't like it, he can quit.


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## Merckx (Apr 20, 2002)

I think here we're talking below market value...The few that insist on paying absolutely bottom dollar...That's less that what most peoble feel is the value of the car. i don't want to make hundreds of dollars on every car i sell....But i don't want to make $75 per either....

and I think a large part of the Op was his saying things like his time is most valueable....

Some get so caught up in price...They'll drive 100 miles to save $200....Or in their price-mania, forget to enjoy or even notice the qualaties of the car.


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## calidriver (Mar 8, 2011)

there should be no such thing as a mad salesguy.

find a better place to spend your time and money


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## g60rabbit (Sep 6, 2000)

maybe its related maybe its not...Just my little pet peeves about the car buying process.

Most dealer websites have a "value" your car section. I click on it fill it out and wait for a response. I get an email within 5 minutes asking me "when can you bring the car down so we can take a look" I will email back asking for a ballpark number. They again ask me when I can bring it down. I know nothing is set in stone I just want an idea of what THEY think its work. 

Why even have that as part of your website if you wont give me any info anyway? I know what NADA, KBB yada yada yada says its worth but what do YOU think its worth. Thats all that matters.

Salesman dont want me wasting there time. Well I dont like throwing the keys to my S4 to some sales guy, to let him take it for a spin only to come back and tell me its worth less then the book value of my car in fair condition even when its mint.

Then when I try to negotiate the price of a used car, the price is what it is, "we arent making any money on it and that price is pretty much what they paid for it on the trade in."

So I am to assume that the last guy got top dollar for his trade, hell the last guy got almost full retail but my car is worth less then fair market trade in when its mint??

And it only took me 2-3 hours of sitting in the dealership to find out my car is worthless. Yea I am not to worried about wasting the dealers time.


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## 1.8Tango (Apr 18, 2000)

Run, fast. Find a dealer that will negotiate over email. I bought my last six VWs that way. If they come back at you with, "No, man, you have to come in!!" Don't even reply. 

You can tell them that if they come back with a serious offer, determined by your research and test drives, you'll gladly give them a refundable credit card deposit over the phone for $500. 

In 2008 I was in the market for a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel. I tried several dealers and one seemed particularly anxious to get the deal done at a an incredible price. 

I drove 35miles across town to get to the dealer. Do the test drive and then time for the paperwork. At that point the guy said, "I even hate to say this but my manager just told me that he authorized me to give you that very, low-ball price in our email exchange because - HE DIDN'T THINK YOU'D SHOW UP!!

Talk about wasting MY TIME. Freaking morons.


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## MrGadget (Mar 20, 2011)

*Another "Stealership" tries to screw their own customer*

I have to say the email exchange examples here are the way to go, I've bought several cars over the years and usually I start the process to find out which dealers in a local area for that make are even worth talking to, then I'll do the drive by and test drive. Or I'll use the Credit Unions car buying service. If they have what I want and they were upfront about pricing, they make a sale that day; I'm happy and everything is OK. If they lie to me and I take the time to drive in, as a couple have; I've been known to let all the other customers at the dealership loudly know about it, and leave burnout tracks out of there. 

*BUT* 

Usually there are a couple of the "You need to come in," or outright lying bastards who think they can screw everyone that comes through their door, like the holding your keys crap. Just don't deal with them if you get a funny vibe, but unfortunately you can't always determine how honest people are, and most car salesmen do not have a good reputation for a reason. 

My latest purchase went well at first. I had been driving around because I wanted to actually _get in_ a few convertibles of different makes and my price range was only used at this time. So I had searched ahead of time for particular makes and models; when I went to each dealership, I politely told them I was here to test drive _that particular car_ and was heading around to several other places to compare. 

Got a couple of "What would it take?" questions, but I was being honest upfront. At the last place, they had Mini's, and it was even more interesting because they just copied my DL and threw me the keys. When I came back, the sales guy started asking questions and mentioned this other car sitting there, I hadn't even known that VW made a hard top convertible. I took one of several late models they had for a spin and was instantly hooked. 

But, I always do research, so I headed home, found a car on Ebay a year newer, with half the mileage and 2K less. If the dealership I test drove at had a comparable price, I would have gone right back and purchased from them without hesitation. And I may use them for service anyhow. 

Back to the Ebay car, after the email and then phone exchanges, we agreed on a price and I would fly out to pick it up the next week. They wanted to get it on the books, as it was the end of the month; so I agreed to send a large deposit on my CC, and wire transfer the rest before I even test drove the car (since it still had the balance of the factory warranty, I wasn't too worried). Unbeknown to me, apparently some other people were interested in the car and called as soon as the Ebay auction was pulled and made higher offers. :laugh: 

So someone wasn't happy at my negotiating skills, *and my CC showed up as being used overseas that weekend after the deposit went through*, my Credit Union called me immediately and locked the card down and had a new one overnighted to me. Then, as I was doing the wire transfer on Monday, the next higher up guy calls and says I need to pay more because of title fees they didn't account for. Not really my problem as that was what we had negotiated, specifically that the cost included the title fees for my state and that _they figure out the total cost and send it to me in the signed contract_. The conversation on my cell phone was about "the signed contract I already had, and that everyone in the lobby of the bank was listening to this conversation.":what: They called back an hour later saying OK, they would "eat the cost." 

When I flew out 3 days later, the initial guy that picked me up was very nice, but again the higher ups at the Stealership tried _again_ to milk me for more money. I didn't agree, said we need to follow the original contract. :facepalm: Everything was about trying to extract just a little more money out of me, but then again, I was driving out of the state, so they weren't worried about keeping me happy. 

So sad, but I don't care as they were a "luxury stealership," and the vehicle won't be serviced by them, but the last thing the head salesman said to me was to send more business his way, I kind of chuckled, then drove off. 

Anybody want a referral? :snowcool:


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