# Timing Belt and/or Water Pump Replacement Discussion [TOC]



## tgarbrecht (May 30, 2007)

*timing belt & water pump replacement*

All,
I'm at 80k miles and its timing belt replacement time. The dealer quoted me ~$1850 parts and labor yet I know I can get all parts for around $400. 
My question, do I need to remove the whole engine for this type of work? I'm not too mechanically inclined,. but I'm hoping this maybe a weekend project with the handy father in-law.
Am I setting myself up for disaster?


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (tgarbrecht)*

I do not remember the particulars of replacing the timing belt in this car. However, I can tell you that the price is not that bad. I was quoted by two dealers between $2200 and $2800 for a 2002 Audi A6. An independent mechanic quoted me $1200 for the same job. 
Hopefully others can give you an idea of how difficult this job may be. One tip someone gave is to cut the belt in half longitudinally. Then take off one half of it, leaving the other half. Then push off the remaining half with the new belt. As the belt goes on there is less chance of having the teeth jump out of place. I have never done this, so I cannot speak for the efficacy of this method.
Good luck
cai


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (tgarbrecht)*

Tyson:
There is lots of disassembly to get to the front of the engine where the timing belt and such are. The bumper, grille and essentialy everything in back of that stuff must be removed. Other than a lot of disassembly and reassembly, the most important thing is that none of the gears that drive the belt move while doing the job. If so, you'd have to re-synchronize the crank vs the two cams, so that valve timing is correct. To accomplish this shops have a locking tool so that nothing can move on you. I also believe you must remove the vibration damper on the crankshaft and that would necessitate an appropriate puller. Some of the parts suppliers will rent/loan a tool set for the job.
If your father in law has done timing belts on several other cars previously, I'd say go for it, assuming you have the service info such as found in the Bentley manual for Phaetons. However, if he is merely handy and has no such experience, I would walk away and have someone else do it. Any good independent shop that works on VW and Audis should be able to do it. The only problem they might have is how best to disassemble the front body work. If I recall, Michael has done a write-up on that task that you might provide them. 
If $1850 is for timing belt and it's related components plus the waterpump and thermostat, that's pretty darn good. Note many people recommend replacing the waterpump and thermostat at the same time you do the timing belt job, since the additional labor is trivial. Also if the waterpump or thermostat, subsequently fail, you essentially redo the labor in your timing belt job.
Good luck,


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

I'd recommend having the shop handle this one. The Phaeton to me doesn't seem like the best DIY car. Just to change the spark plugs you need two special tools, so I'm going to guess you'll need a lot more to get to your timing belt. 
$1850 is a good price to have it done right. If it's any consolation, it cost me more than that for my A4 a few years back, so for a car worth twice as much it's actually a pretty good deal ;-)


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (Jxander)*

Will be replacing the timing belt in my V8. Could not find a post on the details. Looked carefully through the list Michael put together and found some interesting pictures but no procedure. Is there one available??


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (madreg98)*

Dennis:
I'm not aware of any owner write-up of a timing belt job on the Phaeton. The only available info is the Phaeton service manual published by Bentley(approx $100). I guess it might also be possible to get a "pirated" early version VW service manual from Ebay. 
Good luck.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (madreg98)*


_Quote, originally posted by *madreg98* »_Will be replacing the timing belt in my V8. Could not find a post on the details. Looked carefully through the list Michael put together and found some interesting pictures but no procedure. Is there one available??

We don't have a post anywhere that discusses timing belt replacement.
The procedure is a very run of the mill, almost daily activity for a VW technician, because they do this all the time on many other VW engines that require timing belt replacement at a specified interval. The only difference between doing this on a Golf and doing it on a Phaeton is that the nature of the dis-assembly necessary to get at the belt on the Phaeton is different. Once the technician gets access to the belt, the work is very straightforward.
I believe that the Phaeton (along with other large VW group cars) has some kind of feature that allows the front bumper area to be "slid forward" to a service position, allowing sufficient access to the belt and the pulleys so that the technician can do the work. I am sure that this is well documented in the VW service manual, and I encourage you to get a copy of the service manual (how to do that is explained in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category)) and follow the instructions provided there.
As for replacing the water pump at the same time - this seems to be a convention, a tradition that has been carried over from the Golfs and Jettas. On those two cars, much experience has shown that the water pump typically does not last long enough to outlive two timing belts - therefore, while everything is disassembled, the technician proactively replaces the water pump (before it fails, before it has any problems). Whether this is necessary on a Phaeton with a 4.2 engine we don't know, because we don't have sufficient in-service experience to have established a probable lifetime for the water pump.
So, if you want to replace the water pump at the same time, it's your call, just be aware that doing so is a 'preventative measure', not something that is obligatory.
Michael


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## vah (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
hope all is well.
is 80k for timing belt is for the w12 as well?
victor


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (vah)*

W12 vehicles do not have a timing belt, the engine uses chains for camshaft operation.
The W12 engine does have a large serpentine belt that operates various accessory drives, but I don't think there is a defined replacement interval for that serpentine belt.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (PanEuropean)*

Here is a picture showing the serpentine belt on the W12 engine.


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## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (PanEuropean)*

I've changed timing belts on several Audi 4.2s (older and newer) and it's fairly easy, but as others have said, getting the necessary clearance to do the actual work could be a big deal. There are some special tools needed for the later V8, like a crankshaft locking pin, and a cam locking bar. There is also a couple of special tools for fan removal, and setting the belt tension. Not a bad job once you get to it. I would also recommend changing the water pump at this time.


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## tgarbrecht (May 30, 2007)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (testarossaguy)*

well guys...despite the good advice, i'm gonna push my luck on this one.
The Phaeton is a insanly well-built car. I haven't heard of a timing-belt going yet and I've been on the forum for a few years now.
Its usually the same few issues: TPMS, power steering, trunk wiring, 04 shocks and electrical jitters.
My warranty is good for another 20k, when I will drive it (and maintain) until something major goes wrong.
If the dealer can eyeball it to make sure its not shreading or falling off, why fix whats not broken?
Let the betting begin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (tgarbrecht)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tgarbrecht* »_... why fix whats not broken? 

It's your call, of course, and I do respect your decision, but I think that the rationale behind the scheduled replacement of the timing belt at a fixed mileage interval is that the belt has a finite life - this is known by all - and if the belt breaks, the consequences will be severe. The engine will be destroyed if the belt breaks.
Personally, I don't mind pushing my luck with a component if the consequences of that component failing are pretty mild (I have put off replacing my left battery for a while now, even though I know it is on its last legs), but I don't think I would want to defer replacing a timing belt.
Michael


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement*

The timing belt is a very critical belt when it comes to failure, as Michael said, the engine will be severely damage if it fails. This is not the main belt that rotates the AC comp, alternator, etc. this is connecting the engine head to the crank shaft. 
I personally ignore many items when it comes to service, like battery, AC filter, spark plugs etc. because these will cause no harm and usually gives you a “reminder” before it fails, The timing belt will not.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (tgarbrecht)*

Keep in mind that if the belt breaks when you have more than 80k miles, no warranty will cover the damages. So repairs will be on your dime and the cost of repairs will likely approach the trade-in value of a 2004 V8 Phaeton. So if it breaks you may have to scrap the car. 
I have read about a few V8 Touareg owners exceeding the 80k mile mark without dire consequences, however as warned above the 80k mile rule is determined so that there are very very few breakages before 80k since consequences are so bad.
Before pushing the V8 Phaeton beyond 80k(note age of belt also is important) without a timing belt replacement, I'd consider selling it or trading it in and let someone else deal with it. I just had mine done at 65k miles. However, I did it early since the engine was already out of the car for a transmission replacement courtesy of the VW CPO warranty. So I saved a "few" dollars on the task. In addition, I reasoned that my next replacement would be at 145k miles, so why not get the first round now and not worry about it during my ownership.
Good luck, you may need it.


_Modified by Jxander at 7:12 AM 11-17-2009_


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (Jxander)*

I believe this describes the process (the Phaeton is similar):
http://www.audipages.com/Tech_...t.pdf
Damon


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
I believe that the Phaeton (along with other large VW group cars) has some kind of feature that allows the front bumper area to be "slid forward" to a service position, allowing sufficient access to the belt and the pulleys so that the technician can do the work. I am sure that this is well documented in the VW service manual.
Michael

A few months ago my buddy did a Timing Belt job on his 2001.5 Passat Wagon. He purchased his timing belt kit form ECSTuning for around $200 which had everything he needed for the job. It's be nice if they had a similar kit for the Phaeton (paging ECS, paging ECS).
Our neighborhood, friend VW Tech Chris overlooked the entire process. He assisted David throughout the process. About 4 hours later, the job was complete.. The car started perfectly and all done by the book, err, Chris' head.
We took some pictures of "service position" on the Passat Wagon. Where the bumper bolts were located. They inserted these 6-7 inch threaded rods with the red balls at the end. This allowed the front clip to slide forward to allow enough room to get your hands in there and do the dirty work. 
Some masking tape, and a few shop towels to keep the clip from moving. It made the job a lot easier for them.. These special tools sure made the a job a lot easier.. I don't recall all the tools, they were spread across his workbench like we were in a surgical room.
*Service Position for a 2001.5 Passat Wagon:*




*Camshaft Special Tool (my engine back in September of 2008):*


That's what I wanted to share with ya'll!
Thanks!
-Adrian








PS: SamStag sales has a lot of special tools for VW/Audi; check em out: http://www.samstagsales.com/vwaudi.htm
I want to say, we used this cam tool on his V6 KL-0280-11. It sure looks like it and the specs match.


_Modified by VWGlf00GL at 9:13 AM 11-17-2009_


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## TheAmazingDave (May 23, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (VWGlf00GL)*

Hey guys, it's my Passat pictured above, just thought I'd share some information.
I have the Audi 30 valve V6 in my car, and after examining my engine bay, as well as Adrain's and Cisco's bays, it's kinda funny how many similarities there are. In fact, the service position pins you see in the picture, as well as the cam locker bar and crank lock pin, are the same exact tools used on the Phaeton. After the car was put in service position, the job was very easy.
I'm alarmed to have read above that someone would be willing to chance a timing belt on an interference engine. The V6 Passat is rated to around ~115k miles. While some have received that sort of mileage, it's much more common for the water pump bearings or the timing belt tensioner system to fail well before that, usually in the 80-90k mile range with reports as early as 65-70k miles. We changed my belt at 72k miles, and the timing belt idler roller bearing was fried, having already spewed a few of it's bearing balls out which found hiding in the T-belt covers. Maybe a few hundred more miles before it would have seized and shredded the belts. This kind of failure give you about 5 seconds of warning if you're lucky, as you try to figure what the god-aweful screech is before the belt overheats and snaps. And that is, of course, if it doesn't snap instantly from the stress...
A snapped belt on your interference engine is at the very least a top-end rebuild. Worst case, well, use your imagination. Frag grenade rings a bell, though the shrapnel will stay in the crankcase.


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## Royal treatment (Mar 10, 2009)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (TheAmazingDave)*

I am getting mine done next week. I am 95 k and the dealer quoted me 625 because I have the belt and pump. I hope I don't need anything else. I think what's saving me is I only drive it three times a week and less then 200 miles in those three days. 
At any rate it will be done by next week. My local auto shop said in his opinion that you are not really in any danger until you get to around 95 to 100k on Vw's. He also said the book is right on target at replacing them at 65 or 75k if you are doing preventive repairs. 
I guess I equate it to an oil change. 5k or 10k. But I do agree you don't want to press your luck too much on this type of thing. I am going to drive it on friday and then it will be shut down until the job is done. Funny I say w12 engine for sell in the classified section so I an up grade in this case would be not so bad if something bad happens Gotta stay positive .
Long live that super V dub! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (TheAmazingDave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheAmazingDave* »_ In fact, the service position pins you see in the picture, as well as the cam locker bar and crank lock pin, are the same exact tools used on the Phaeton. After the car was put in service position, the job was very easy.



Just a heads up if anybody is having their timing belt done elsewear other than a dealer. The tools required are actually different than a 2.8L V6. 
V6 timing belt: 
Counter-holder tool -3036- 
Locking pin -3242- 
*Cam Locker bar -3391- *
Puller -T40001- 
Securing pin -T40011- 
V8 timing belt:
Crankshaft Holder -3242- 
Puller -T40001- 
*Camshaft Locker bar -T40005-* 
*Tightener Pulley Wrench -T40009-* 
Locking Pin -T40011- 
I am pointing this out just in case after teardown someone finds out they don't have the right tools. I know I made the mistake of identifying the front allen bolt tool as a 17mm in a wheel bearing thread when in fact it was a 19mm, still havn't heard the end of it.........










_Modified by KCPhaetonTech at 7:11 PM 11-17-2009_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (KCPhaetonTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KCPhaetonTech* »_I know I made the mistake of identifying the front allen bolt tool as a 17mm in a wheel bearing thread when in fact it was a 19mm, still havn't heard the end of it.........









I remember that - I was not very impressed by the person who criticized you.
Michael


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (PanEuropean)*

The problem with not fixing what's not broken with a timing belt is that when it breaks there isn't much that won't be broken. Mine is going in to Autobarn, Evanston this week for timing belt and water pump replacement. Mileage is 92,000. 
Peter


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## TheAmazingDave (May 23, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (KCPhaetonTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KCPhaetonTech* »_

Just a heads up if anybody is having their timing belt done elsewear other than a dealer. The tools required are actually different than a 2.8L V6. 


Thanks for clearing that up, as I was told by our tech friend it was the same bar. I could have misinterpreted him in the heat of the moment though, and he probably meant that it ls essentially the same.


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (Royal treatment)*

I also have the timing belt kit including the water pump and thermostat. For $625 it would be easier to just have dealer do it. This seems quite low. Any input from others? I am going to check my local dealer.


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## Jagvar (Jan 6, 2009)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (tgarbrecht)*

Is timing belt and water pump replacement something that would be covered under the VW RealDriver Platinum plan?


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (Jagvar)*

Patrick:
No it is not normally covered as it is called a maintenance item and is not considered a repair. However, if it breaks prior to 80k that's another issue.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (madreg98)*

Dennis:
$625 for labor seems a bit low for a VW dealer but not too far off. It appears that I was charged approximately $450 labor to do my job, but remember that this was while the engine was out of the vehicle. So add to the $450 the cost of disassembly required to get to the front of the engine and reassembly.
Curious to hear what your dealer will say.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (Jxander)*

Hi Jim:
Do keep in mind that labour rates vary quite considerably across the country (and across the continent, for that matter). I have seen VW dealership labour rates range between USD $70 and USD $130 an hour - depends very much on rural/urban, big shop/small shop, dealer owns one dealership or twenty, etc.
Michael


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## petermueller (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (PanEuropean)*

Just replaced my timing belt and other parts:
Here's the list of what was replaced
Tooth Belt
Belt damper
Lever
Rollers
Water pump 
Thermostat
Parts were a little over one thousand dollars as was labor. I feel that this was a good investment as I plan to keep my car for many more miles.
Just a note about my Phaeton. It's the best car I've ever owned. Fewest problems of any for sure.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (petermueller)*

Peter:
I had the exact same list of parts at a cost of $1057 w/o taxes. My labor was only $464 since engine was already out for transmission replacement.
Thanks for the info.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (Jxander)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jxander* »_Keep in mind that if the belt breaks when you have more than 80k miles, no warranty will cover the damages. So repairs will be on your dime and the cost of repairs will likely approach the trade-in value of a 2004 V8 Phaeton. So if it breaks you may have to scrap the car. 

Also, keep in mind that if the factory specified the belt was supposed to be replaced at 80,000 miles, you don't replace it and at, say, 88,000 miles it breaks and takes out the engine, your 100,000 mile extended warranty is going to tell you to go pound sand. One of the requirements of any extended warranty is that you maintain the vehicle to factory schedule. Failure to do so will invalidate any warranty claims on damage caused by lack of maintenance.


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## Woft19delta (Apr 28, 2009)

*Timing Belt... fun*

So I have 52k on the car (2004 v8) and I am getting this noise at the front of the engine, sounds like rocks shaking around in a tin can, the noise appeared to be coming from the tensioner.
I popped the belt off real quick and fired it up, to my dismay the noise remained. So now I am looking at a timing belt kit (noise is definitely external, not like a rod knock or valve noise).
So I was quoted $2200 from the dealer and i would consider myself pretty mechnically inclined. Just wanted to see if anyone had any pics or tips before I start this adventure.


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## Debra (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: Timing Belt... fun (Woft19delta)*

Hey, fellow Washingtonian! I've only seen one other Phaeton around here and that was around Issaquah Costco. We had identical cars. For the first time it was actually pretty cool. Not like pulling into the parking garage and parking next to 4 other A6's the same shade of silver and the same year.








That's a pretty hefty quote. Who did you take it to? 
I don't see any responses yet, but if you are mechanically inclined and want to take this on yourself, I would be happy to come over and take pictures and notes so a tutorial can be started. My X was/is a member of a Dodge diesel club and we used to have parties where 40 people would show up to mod and help mod trucks. It was pretty wild, but we had a heated 3500 sq. ft. shop and 2 acres of parking, so it made sense that we host. It was really fun. 
If you want to give updating your timing belt a try, let me know. Otherwise, I have had really good luck with Chaplin's in Bellevue. I always deal with Aaron in service, if you go there, tell him I referred you. He is awesome! If he doesn't give you a loaner, tell me and I'll try to influence him.








I've spent enough money there that is has worked for a friend of mine with a bug she didn't buy there.


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## sachverhalte (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: Timing Belt... fun (Woft19delta)*

FYI...I have a quote from a Boston area VW dealer for $1700 for a timing belt change, including water pump. A former Audi mechanic quoted $1000 at an independent garage in NH. There may be a better price out there if you don't want to try this on your own.
-Bob


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Timing Belt... fun (sachverhalte)*

Actually, I would pay for that. I've done it three times myself. 5 cyl 300BHP S4 from 93, A8 4.2 from 97 and A4 3.0 from 02. The A8 was most interesting. My friend and I did it (his car) and spent the better part of a day on it. We tore down the front the day before. We took extremely good care to adjst the thing. Adjust, rotate 5 times, adjust, rotate five times, adjust... The result was astounding! Purred. That 4.2 V8 has continuous adjustment possibilities because the sprockets are on conical axle ends. Other cars have splines. I do not know what the VW engines have, but if it's conical - be careful!
I would leave the car to someone who really knows his stuff. The difference between just changing and adjusting the belt and tensioners and REALLY adjusting it is amazing. Find someone that "has it" and pay what he wants!
Just my two cents' worth...


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## Debra (Dec 3, 2009)

*Re: Timing Belt... fun (perfrej)*

You are a man of wisdom. If he still wants to take it on himself, I have already volunteered to take over video and notes. He would still be responsible for the final instructions.


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## 4cdndctn (Oct 6, 2009)

*Re: Timing Belt... fun (Debra)*

To bad you are not in NJ


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## jaautowerks (Aug 28, 2009)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (chrisj428)*

If anyone needs one done, I'm in Allenwood, NJ.... D3 specialist


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## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

just did the job about two weeks ago with my son in law. typical timing belt job - however we chose to remove the front of the car to get at the various pulleys and such rather than have to wrestle everything in and out in the service position. also needed to charge the ac lines so opening it up was not a show stopper. got part from blauparts as well as a rental set of tools. car was at 79,000 miles and making horrendous noises. job actually took a week for two reasons, one of which i am embarrassed to recount. the first was that some of the noise came from the alternator so we ordered a rebuilt. the second was was that i misread the torque requirement for the offset tensioner and we stripped the thread. (block is aluminum!!) PITA. needed to remove the coil in the thread before we rethreaded. replaced water pump and thermostat and some coolant piping which had started to rust. car runs beautifully now. so if you are mechanically adept, have the time and about $500 you can do it yourself.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (madreg98)*

*Archival Note:* Merged two different timing belt discussions together, added TOC tag.


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## sjglaser (Nov 18, 2009)

I plan to do mine at 75K.. Stokes VW quoted $1,450 including water pump. Would I be OK letting it go past 80K? probably, but the odds will not improve. 
Question, does anyone know of an instance of the V8 timing belt failing?


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## excitablekid (Dec 30, 2008)

*Re: (sjglaser)*

_
Quote, originally posted by *sjglaser* »Stokes VW quoted $1,450 including water pump. ?
_ 
Wow!. That's a full $1000 less than the quote I received locally. It may be worth driving to S. Carolina for that price.


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## sjglaser (Nov 18, 2009)

*Re: (excitablekid)*

I would recommend Stokes VW... They work on a lot of Phaetons, and are very concerned that you are happy with their work. $1,500 seems to be norm.... If you are being quoted $1,000 above that then I would agree that it is worth the trip to CHS.


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## Woft19delta (Apr 28, 2009)

Ok so I will call chaplins and see what they have to say, i can't imagine it being a lot different but carter wasn't able to give me quote right away and actually admitted to not having done one before. I guess they can't look up the flat rate time?
I feel pretty comfortable doing this myself as the kit and tools come with a manual.
If i could get it done for 1,500 then sure why not, but in seattle that's not likely.
And thank you Debra for the reference. Actually I think I have seen two phaetons, once on I-5 and there is one I see on 305 (bainbridge, where I work) quite often


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## Woft19delta (Apr 28, 2009)

*Re: (Woft19delta)*

Timing belt complete, unfortunately my camera was having some issues.
Found my noise, there is a small tensioner bearing hidden beneath the passenger side timing cover that came apart. ejected all the balls and was riding metal on metal.... if that were to go much longer I think I would be looking at a new motor, so I am glad I got this done
But it was way easier that expected so here is what you might want to know.
Tools: VW timing belt tool kit available from BLAUparts
T25 and T30 screw drivers, metric socket set (with T25/T30 sockets), metric wrench set, ratchet with a variety of extensions, 6mm and 8mm allen sockets, i think thats it....
This is actually way easier than on any Audi. First start by NOT removing the bumper cover.
Remove lower engine shield
Remove air intake inlet pieces.
Remove V8 plastic trim piece
Remove cross member directly above crank pulley (4x16mm head bolts... who uses 16mm?... 5/8 works too)
Remove both fans (you might be able to skip this but it gives you a lot more room, you just need to get them out of the way so you dont have to undo all clips, just enough to get them on the ground... and pay slight attention to how they went on and how the harness is routed)
Remove serp belt (19mm wrench, or 3/4)
Remove crank pulley (8x6mm allen)
Remove timing covers (two uppers secured by two T30 screws each, the middle is held on by two clips)
Remove idler pulley bracket (this is near the tensioner, 3x12mm head bolts)
remove serp belt tensioner
Timing belt should be fully exposed
follow the instructions that come with the tool kit from here, its pretty cake if you understand whats going on.
couple notes
The factory glues the water pump gasket to the block (awesome) I elected to not attempt to remove it as there is no room to get in there with a tool, I stacked the new gasket on the old one and used a heavy amount of locktite 515 (gasket eliminator) on all sides and that stuff seals water like nobody's business and it comes off decent when you go to take it apart... no leaks so I like it
Cam tool notes: It can be easier to take the cam tool off for belt routing but it goes on easy again too. Insert on the driver's side cam and rotate until it is approximately lined up with the passenger cam sprocket. Insert your 24mm ratchet through the spacing in the tool and realign into the dowels. Make sure dowels on both ends are fully in.
After that it goes back together as easy as it comes apart.
I couldnt find coolant bleeders so I just filled it to the brim and squeezed all the hoses and ran it it, the next day i just topped it and it was good
Yeah so im in it about 600, but a lot better than 1900 or 2200 as I was quoted by dealerships


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

*Re: timing belt & water pump replacement (jaautowerks)*

I vouch for John as he performed my timing belt job on my Phaeton's 4.2. John is meticulous, well trained(factory certified) and is trustworthy. My car runs flawlessly. It was a little more than an hours drive to get to but well worth it. I just didn't feel too confident with my local dealers and found prices to be double in some cases. I recommend John. He's my mechanic now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Coolant leak*

I've got 118k miles on my 2004 4.2 V8. There is a slow coolant leak that appeared about 500 miles ago. The timing belt, thermostat and water pump were changed at 80k miles. Actually, the water pump was done twice at that service because the first pump they put in was said to be defective because my car overheated during their service test drive. The service bill plainly states this event. 

What else could be leaking? Cracked radiator? It's about 2-4 ounces a day on the garage floor over night.


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## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

First, please excuse my English is not too great. 
I have a Phaeton 3.0 V6 TDI manufacturing 5.2007 which is 134,000 km 
I have two questions, if possible: 
a.How many km have changed a belt on this engine? 
b. How many km oil change gearbox, this engine? 
Thank you!


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi, 

Welcome to the forum... 

If you don't have a User Manual, you can go to the web site www.erwin.volkswagen.de then pay VW €6 for one hour access. 

Then enter your car's VIN number, and you can find out the Maintenance Tables for your car and its exact km and age. There is a lot of other Phaeton information too, related to your own car. 

I think the main pages are only in English (or maybe Deutsche too) but some of the sub-sections have a lot of other languages. 

Cheers, 
Chris


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

The Service Department says the water pump is leaking, after being replaced (by them) 38k miles and 2.5 years ago at the 80,000 service. Cost to replace it is quoted as $1,071 including labor. It doesn't seem right that it should fail so quickly. About two weeks or so before I noticed the leak I'd run over a rock going 50MPH (my car not the rock) and it took a gouge out of the louvers in the center of my belly pan. I was hoping it damaged one of the water hoses that run across the car just aft of the louvers, near the roll bar and crossmember, resulting in the leak.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Indeed it doesn't. For that price you may as well have them change the belt again as well.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Update: 

Service tech said the damage done by the rock I hit was minimal and did not impact on the driver's side near the water pump... it was more to the passenger side and center. However my insurance company sent an inspector out to see the car at the dealership, even though I had called the day before to cancel the claim because the gouged belly pan only cost $100 or so more than my $500 deductible. 

However, the insurance adjuster found $3,900. in damage.... The Service Advisor says its all just some cosmetic dings to a crossmember, a scrape on the sway bar and front apron/spoiler, and the gouged belly pan. Be happy, don't worry. Just a little paint. Some rust on the crossmember. Hmmm.


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## cata1569 (Jun 25, 2012)

Paximus said:


> Hi,
> 
> Welcome to the forum...
> 
> ...




Thank you!


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

PanEuropean said:


> As for replacing the water pump at the same time - this seems to be a convention, a tradition that has been carried over from the Golfs and Jettas. On those two cars, much experience has shown that the water pump typically does not last long enough to outlive two timing belts - therefore, while everything is disassembled, the technician proactively replaces the water pump (before it fails, before it has any problems). Whether this is necessary on a Phaeton with a 4.2 engine we don't know, because we don't have sufficient in-service experience to have established a probable lifetime for the water pump.<p>So, if you want to replace the water pump at the same time, it's your call, just be aware that doing so is a 'preventative measure', not something that is obligatory.<p>


Michael,

Do you still hold the same opinion above with regard to changing the water pump at the time of changing the timing belt?

Regards,

Salah


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Salah:

Yes, I do. It just seems to make sense, because the water pump is a component that typically fails after a period of time on all cars, and when the car is sufficiently disassembled to replace the timing belt, it only takes a few minutes to replace the water pump. In other words, the additional labour cost is virtually nothing (perhaps 20 or 30 minutes), hence all you have to pay for is the part and any replacement coolant.

Michael


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## Twarg04 (Aug 27, 2007)

Michael,
I'm ready for the 80k service from our local dealer. I've asked for the water pump to also be replaced. They're recommending replacing four other parts along with the timing belt; a couple of rollers, tensioner and dampener. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on replacing the additional parts while they have it torn apart? This is probably covered in another post, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks,
Mike


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Those extra bits absolutely need to be replaced. A stuck roller can be as bad as a broken timing belt. It's standard practice on any car with a timing belt to replace the rollers & tensioners at the same time. The other thing you should have them replace is the thermostat, it's a 5 minute job while they're doing the belt, or $900 later if it fails (which several of them have on the V8).


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## Twarg04 (Aug 27, 2007)

Thanks for the quick response. It seemed like a good idea to me, but I wanted to get a second opinion. Also, thanks for the tip on the thermostat.
Mike


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

They didn't do the thermostat on mine, despite me asking, and 20k later I suspect it's sticking..... When you pick the car up, make sure you go over the front bumper with a fine toothcomb checking for cracks and that all the gaps are parallel. It literally took them months, several paint jobs, and finally a new bumper to get mine right, and I've recently discovered that they also broke the rear mount on one of the headlight assemblies but just left it.


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

A thermostat went bad on one of mine. Used that as the reason to replace timing belt early. 

I forget what the fault said though. Anyone else remember?


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Just finished a 4 hour job replacing the timing belt - serpentine belt - rollers - thermostat - air filters - pollen filters - oil and filter - fuel filter - spark plugs.

Unfortunately, I forget to purchase tension roller part number 077109479D, so we reused it.

Should I worry?

Regards,

Salah


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Forgot to add that my vehicle has 111250km - 69K miles


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