# Fuel Pump Upgrades for Quatro Mk1 TT



## TUNERTT (May 18, 2012)

I'm wondering if anyone out there has upgraded fule pumps on a Mk1 Quatro.
Most "drop-in" pump upgrades, such as from APR are for FWD only. 
The Quatro tank is split by the rear wheel drive and has primary pump on the right side and a transfer pump to move fuel from the left side to the right side. The transfer pump power comes from the right side pump.
A FWD pump will drop in to the right side pump mount, but there is no prvisions for running the transfer pump, so you would be abandoning the transfer pump and you will find yourself running out of gas with 1/4 tank showing on the fuel gauge.
Dooes anyobody know of a proper solution?
I'm considering going with two FWD pumps, one in each side, and running in parallel.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Easiest solution would be to add an inline. What are you trying to accomplish?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Great topic. I need to get a pump as well. 

"Were gonna need more juice captain.."

opcorn:


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## TUNERTT (May 18, 2012)

My tuning shop says an in-line will work but will be exposed and noisy, so I am looking for a way to stay with in-tank pumps.


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## 2T2T5 (Dec 19, 2011)

What are you looking to do with your build? When my intank pump died I called APR and they told me that their fuel pump upgrade for the FWD is a 225 pump without the extra pickup. The 225 pump can handle the Stage III kit from what they told me. A buddy of mine has a E85 setup with a inline walboro on his GTI and I didn't notice any extra noise but his car is loud in general.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

You could always go with a surge tank. Its like an extra little fuel tank that houses your aftermarket fuel pump. You still keep your factory intank pump and that would send fuel to surge tank. They are a good option because it keeps most of the fuel pump submerged so its quiet and it also keeps your fuel pump from over heating. Integrated Engineering sells them with either a single 044 fuel pump or a dual 044 pump setup. If your not trying to make a ton of power, the single setup would work just fine.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The inline pump "noise" is over-stated. When I do a check to be sure my 044-type is working, I perform it at idle with the hood open. To be sure it's running I have to get out of the car and lean over the bay where it's located. In other words, it's not very loud.

I recommend an inline pump in the engine bay. Completely discreet and inexpensive to do.


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

I had a Walbro under the hood and I never heard it. I have heard some loud 044 setups in VR's- I think it depends on how loud the engine is.

A really modded 1.8T is really loud. Valvetrain/lifter clacking, lightweight flywheel chatter, air sucking in through the air filter/turbo spinning.

I have a fuel lab pump now and it's really loud, but flows almost double a 044 as well. I deal with it.

Also FYI the APR drop in pump is just our stock intake fuel pump. I'd skip all intake solutions due to the quarter tank starvation issue and their aren't many multiple fuel approved pumps available that flow more than stock.


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## Dowski12 (Nov 2, 2011)

I have the 044 motorsport intake fuel pump on my setup, but we are going to extend the pickup so we shouldn't have any starvation issues. We shall see:sly:


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## TUNERTT (May 18, 2012)

*Going with in-line solution*

This is a great forum and I apprciate the good information you folks have passed my way.
Thanks to all.
Always best to obey the K.I.S.S. rule when considering upgrades.
I had thought an in-line pump would be located at the tank...duh...


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## TUNERTT (May 18, 2012)

*Goining with a sump tank*

FYI after much deliberation with my tuner we are going to get a sump tank from 034 Motorsports and mount the pump in that. We think this will be quieter and having a sump will prevent possible momentary loss of fuel in a high-g turn when main tank fuel level is low and fuel sloshes to the side.
The refer to this as "sprited driving"


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I recommend an inline pump in the engine bay. Completely discreet and inexpensive to do.


 And a complete hazard....:laugh: 

Should have something for you fine gentlemen shortly. Really want to launch all the new products for WF12 but I am getting too many bugs.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

i run the Apr in tank and a walbro inline with the c2 install kit no problems yet:thumbup:


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

Issam Abed said:


> And a complete hazard....:laugh:
> 
> Should have something for you fine gentlemen shortly. Really want to launch all the new products for WF12 but I am getting too many bugs.


 do tell Issam


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## Doooglasss (Aug 28, 2009)

speed51133! said:


> do tell Issam


 My brand new Fuel Lab pump literally just died so I'd like in on this good news as well!

I'm planning a complete reconstruction of my fueling setup involving a surge tank and relocation of some stuff- if I can avoid this I'd be real happy.


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## 01ttgt28 (Jun 23, 2009)

DougLoBue said:


> My brand new Fuel Lab pump literally just died so I'd like in on this good news as well!
> 
> I'm planning a complete reconstruction of my fueling setup involving a surge tank and relocation of some stuff- if I can avoid this I'd be real happy.


 More money Doug it never ends


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

I know issam has been working on something.... I'm kind of where you are. I need a fuel pump upgrade but don't want to tear out lines and know an inline pump is not the proper way...


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Thinking about upgrading to e85 and don't think the stock lines will be adequate, got me thinking about a surge tank as well. I understand the AWD TT's have a dual pump set up. I want something simple so the less pumps the better.

Anybody running some neat set ups they want to share? 




I was reading about this:

http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-i...nclosed-fp34-044-fuel-surge-tank-p-21527.html



I also saw Arnold has a this set up but not sure it will work on the AWD TT's. But, I don't doubt his abilities to make one for the TT.











of course IE has their surge tank:

http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineering-submerged-044-billet-surge-tank-with-pump


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

18T_BT said:


> Thinking about upgrading to e85 and don't think the stock lines will be adequate, got me thinking about a surge tank as well. I understand the AWD TT's have a dual pump set up. I want something simple so the less pumps the better.
> 
> Anybody running some neat set ups they want to share?
> 
> ...


What size snail and boost target? I hardly see the lines beeing inadequate unless trying to supply fuel to a lot of CFMs.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Something in the 500awhp range...i am not set on a specific HP#...I currently run a 3076R considering changing it up though, always was interested in a 35R especially now that I will have AWD


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

On a 35r and bigger... maybe! And even then, it's more of a precautionary measure than a requirement, but really not needed IMO on the current turbo.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> On a 35r and bigger... maybe! And even then, it's more of a precautionary measure than a requirement, but really not needed IMO on the current turbo.



Even for e85 the stock fuel lines will be sufficiently sized?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

18T_BT said:


> Even for e85 the stock fuel lines will be sufficiently sized?


The stock lines are 5/16" IIRC, so they're not necessarily a big choke point (although that's all relative to the flow requirement). What you need to worry about first on E85, is the OEM rail and the need for a bigger external surge tank (the stock in-tank housing is a mini surge tank but might run low/dry on long sustained WOT at high flow). With the stock lines close in size to a -6 AN line, there are other priorities before they can become an issue. On top of that you'd need to rethink the whole setup (including tank) because the internal feed from the OEM pump location to outside the tank will remain the same (you only flow as well as your smallest restriction, so upgrading around that is pointless). :beer:


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Stock lines are 5/16. I do want to get a surge tank or I guess always have at least 1/4 tank. Isn't the internal feed 5/16 as well? Excuse my ignorance I am not as familiar with TT fueling.

I was thinking something along the lines of what Arnold has. As I presume it will drop in the stock location, I'll confirm with him. So, I can have one OEM pump feeding a surge tank which is in the second OEM pump location and it will have an 044 or the E85 compatible Walbro 450lph pump.

Why is the stock fuel rail problematic?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

18T_BT said:


> Why is the stock fuel rail problematic?


This.. Also, whats the best way to run my lines..? Meaning, do I just pull and reconnect to the pump, or should I buy better lines with fittings on the ends? Fuel lines attached by hose clamps seems a little cheesy/unsafe to me.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

18T_BT said:


> Stock lines are 5/16. I do want to get a surge tank or I guess always have at least 1/4 tank. Isn't the internal feed 5/16 as well? Excuse my ignorance I am not as familiar with TT fueling.
> 
> I was thinking something along the lines of what Arnold has. As I presume it will drop in the stock location, I'll confirm with him. So, I can have one OEM pump feeding a surge tank which is in the second OEM pump location and it will have an 044 or the E85 compatible Walbro 450lph pump.


The internal feed is 5/16" as well, and that's why upgrading to bigger lines around this 5/16" restriction is pointless (it'll only flow as well as 5/16" ID will allow, and the rest is just for show). Having a high flow transfer pump seems useless to me, it's job is only to supply fuel over the necessary bump in the AWD tank setup. The stock transfer is more than capable for this job, what needs help is the actual feed/supply pump that will be providing fuel to the motor.



warranty225cpe said:


> This.. Also, whats the best way to run my lines..? Meaning, do I just pull and reconnect to the pump, or should I buy better lines with fittings on the ends? Fuel lines attached by hose clamps seems a little cheesy/unsafe to me.


The issue with stock rail is its internal orifice flow capacity. It is known to go static at around 90+ psi, so if you run a combination of high boost and high regulated rail pressure, there is a potential for exceeding what it will flow without going static. Be careful though when upgrading, most aftermarket rails aren't rated for Ethanol or Methanol use (don't believe in the internal coating marketing BS, meth will eat through those in a short time, and Ethanol will end up doing it too in the long run... and I'm talking from an actual bad experience). 

In your case Eric, the stock line, rail, and clamping is fine. The only thing I did in mine is replace all the OEM clamping points to actual fuel clamps that won't eat through the rubber.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> The internal feed is 5/16" as well, and that's why upgrading to bigger lines around this 5/16" restriction is pointless (it'll only flow as well as 5/16" ID will allow, and the rest is just for show). Having a high flow transfer pump seems useless to me, it's job is only to supply fuel over the necessary bump in the AWD tank setup. The stock transfer is more than capable for this job, what needs help is the actual feed/supply pump that will be providing fuel to the motor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 ahhh.. I see. Who makes a decent rail? I know IE makes one, but is it good for E85?


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Be careful though when upgrading, most aftermarket rails aren't rated for Ethanol or Methanol use (don't believe in the internal coating marketing BS, meth will eat through those in a short time, and Ethanol will end up doing it too in the long run... and I'm talking from an actual bad experience).


What material are these rails made out of that they aren't compatible with eth/meth?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

ALUMINIUM! Alcohol compounds did quick work at eroding aftermarket rails when we started trying E85 in our turbo DSMs. Nowadays, some companies coat the internals but they still get eaten up in the long run... be careful with non-steel fuel rails when using methanol and ethanol :beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> ALUMINIUM! Alcohol compounds did quick work at eroding aftermarket rails when we started trying E85 in our turbo DSMs. Nowadays, some companies coat the internals but they still get eaten up in the long run... be careful with non-steel fuel rails when using methanol and ethanol :beer:


Lol, sounds like theres a story behind this..:laugh:
Ok, some no alminum.. I didnt even know there were options for steel..


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Lol, sounds like theres a story behind this..:laugh:
> Ok, some no alminum.. I didnt even know there were options for steel..


I haven't seen any for the 1.8t though (shows how advanced the 1.8t world is in terms of making power). All the ones I know about are "billet" aluminum as if the word billet makes them some exclusive piece that is suitable for all applications :screwy:. It's another one of those things that one day, I'll have to take matters into my own hands to bring something to the community. 

All the major players are aluminum, and I'm sure there are more. The only option at this point for alcohols is OEM

http://www.intengineering.com/integrated-engineering-billet-fuel-rail-for-1-8t-20v

http://www.034motorsport.com/fuel-i...ls-fuel-rail-18t-billet-aluminum-p-21572.html

http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=10_58

http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/catalog.php?pid=2009

http://www.autotech.com/product/fuel-air-components/10-133-180K.html?fromcat=

http://www.rossmachineracing.com/20vVWrail.html


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> It's another one of those things that one day, I'll have to take matters into my own hands to bring something to the community.


Thats my boy!!!



Marcus_Aurelius said:


> The only option at this point for alcohols is OEM


Damn.., looks that way


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