# The R-GTI gets more power....



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)




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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Very very nice! Good job APR!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*

Any other upgrades other than the 100 octane?








Looks like Bob G is gunna be happy


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Very very nice! Good job APR!

The R-GTi is also now a full production APR Stage 3 just like this one:








The R-GTI also has upgraded rods and we highly recommend installing some if you plan to use the 100 oct file with your Stage 3!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Do you know what rods they ended up using?


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

when is my GTI gonna get faster man?


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## TheBox (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

damn now i need rods!!! haha sweet


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Do you know what rods they ended up using?

Yes, we develped the engine package and we used APR rods! They retail for $1349 and are rifle drilled.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yes, we develped the engine package and we used APR rods! They retail for $1349 and are rifle drilled.

the rods are available already ?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
the rods are available already ?

yup


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
yup

ughh u coulda said 2 weeks that way i would have some time to replenish my checking account after monday


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

When can we expect a quad turbo setup on the R8?


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I am so jealous...that's such a nice fleet!!!


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_When can we expect a quad turbo setup on the R8?








thats what i was wondering


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## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
retail for $1349


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## andres16V (Nov 13, 2001)

*Re: (mj6234)*

Nice HP and NICE pics!


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (andres16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *andres16V* »_Nice HP and NICE pics!

well, we did start with the best platform in all of cardom!


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
we highly * recommend * installing some if you plan to use the 100 oct file with your Stage 3!
 
Keith Lets clarify this for everyone most importantly me that's been patiently waiting , are these recommend?? or NEEDED????







and think about this good Before you answer LOL


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## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (mj6234)*

Are the rods titanium??


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
Keith Lets clarify this for everyone most importantly me that's been patiently waiting , are these recommend?? or NEEDED????







and think about this good Before you answer LOL 

Recommended yes! Needed, well that would be determined if your oem rods fail. I mean, I can't inspect everyone's car before we install the 100 oct program to ensure they have rods, I can say "we recommend rods and if you choose not to install them we make no claims to the ability of the oem rods to handle the power"
Our official position is that if you choose to use the 100 oct program you should install rods. If you sling an oem rod on the 100 oct file, we will not be held liable or responsible.
Just like your clutch. We recommend you install an upgraded clutch with our Stage 3. If you don't, that's on you, if your oem clutch holds for 50 billion miles because you drive like a grandma, GREAT! If you take it to the dragstrip and explode it on the first pass, its not our fault.








In our experience and education we feel there is enough of a risk with the oem rods on the 100 oct file that you should install upgraded rods before using it. If you don't, that's your decision!


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (shortydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortydub* »_Are the rods titanium??









nope, but there is quite an extension machining process associated with them that increase the cost.


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I think the saying "With great power comes great responsibility" certainly applies here.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

In our experience and education we feel there is enough of a risk with the oem rods on the 100 oct file that you should install upgraded rods before using it. If you don't, that's your decision!

Keith your starting to sound like a LAWYER








so in laymen terms you havent broken any rods YET with this tune but have to cover your [email protected]@ LOL
So basically its like the 1.8T stage 3 + 104 program ,the 2L TFSI 100 octane program is available for stage 3 owners but at your own risk?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
Keith your starting to sound like a LAWYER








so in laymen terms you havent broken any rods YET with this tune but have to cover your [email protected]@ LOL
So basically its like the 1.8T stage 3 + 104 program ,the 2L TFSI 100 octane program is available for stage 3 owners but at your own risk? 


yes, sometimes diplomacy is an asset, sometimes, not so much. but yes, its at your own risk!


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## [email protected] (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Jeeez Keith, Decisions, Decisions!!

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_


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## RoadRager (Sep 5, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Our official position is that if you choose to use the 100 oct program you should install rods. If you sling an oem rod on the 100 oct file, we will not be held liable or responsible.

I take it that this is only for the Stage 3+ kits? I have the 100 Octane program for stage 1. I doubt that I need rods yet.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (RoadRager)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoadRager* »_
I take it that this is only for the Stage 3+ kits? .
 
yes , stage 3 +







Bob.G


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

I wish I could rev to 7000rpm


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Jeeez Keith, Decisions, Decisions!!


Can you guess which one is fastest in a straight line?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (RoadRager)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoadRager* »_
I take it that this is only for the Stage 3+ kits? I have the 100 Octane program for stage 1. I doubt that I need rods yet.

correctumundo!


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

How much booost?


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## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

awesome


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

will there be a higher boost tune for pump gas? with rods?


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## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2007)

The boost is the same as the 93 octane program. the majority of the changes were in fueling and spark strategies. 
No, boost will not get higher. Don't forget the wonderful map sensor you all have that limits you to around 2550 mbar absolute pressure.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The boost is the same as the 93 octane program. the majority of the changes were in fueling and spark strategies. 
No, boost will not get higher. Don't forget the wonderful map sensor you all have that limits you to around 2550 mbar absolute pressure.

my question was not quiet that. the 93oct pump file puts down just over 350whp on the stage 3, when i get rods to make it a stage 3+ will there be a tune that puts out more power on 93octane?


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## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

Unfortunately no. To be quite honest, were not holding back on the 93 octane program now (other than running safe EGTs and obeying the MAP sensor's strict orders LOL). Without more RPM the 93 octane program is what it is. Of course if someone would like to do some head work and a balance shaft delete along with their upgraded rods it would make me very happy to make a 8500 rpm tune


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Unfortunately no. To be quite honest, were not holding back on the 93 octane program now (other than running safe EGTs and obeying the MAP sensor's strict orders LOL). Without more RPM the 93 octane program is what it is. Of course if someone would like to do some head work and a balance shaft delete along with their upgraded rods it would make me very happy to make a 8500 rpm tune









make a new map sensor


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## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

I wish that were the only issue. Unfortuantely there are hundreds of tables that run off input from the MAP sensor and through previous experience we've determined it's not neccessarily a good idea to rescale those tables. So, unless there's a break through here in ME9 tuning world 2550 mbar absolute pressue is all you're getting








I sometimes get made fun of for my old school drive by cable 1.8T A4. But everytime someone has a throttle closing issue it makes we feel all warm inside







. Not to mention I can run 30 psi whenever I so choose


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## iSot (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Can you guess which one is fastest in a straight line?

I like to know, which car is fastest in a straight line.... Yeah !







Maybe hmm.... Porsche ?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I wish that were the only issue. Unfortuantely there are hundreds of tables that run off input from the MAP sensor and through previous experience we've determined it's not neccessarily a good idea to rescale those tables. So, unless there's a break through here in ME9 tuning world 2550 mbar absolute pressue is all you're getting









 
That when you put a voltage clamp on and turn up the boost 
Unfortunately ME-9 will find another way to pull back power .







Bob.G


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## GTIBOIL (Jan 24, 2007)

how much of the internals should be replaced to handle the 100 octane?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Unfortunately no. To be quite honest, * were not holding back on the 93 octane program * now (other than running safe EGTs and obeying the MAP sensor's strict orders LOL). Without more RPM the 93 octane program is what it is. 

Joel your customers will be a judge of that , soon many kits will be in there hands and there Dyno numbers will speak for themselves . 
Ill be one of them soon enough .







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (iSot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iSot* »_
I like to know, which car is fastest in a straight line.... Yeah !







Maybe hmm.... Porsche ?

Maybe, yes, but its debatable. with the chip turned off, I couldn't catch up to the R-GTi in the Porsche


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (GTIBOIL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIBOIL* »_how much of the internals should be replaced to handle the 100 octane?

we recommend the connecting rods only.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
make a new map sensor








 
They have one for 2- 3 years .
I think the TT1.8T Stage 3 kit uses it.







Bob.G


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Unfortunately no. * To be quite honest, were not holding back on the 93 octane program * now (other than running safe EGTs and obeying the MAP sensor's strict orders LOL). Without more RPM the 93 octane program is what it is. 

Joel I would like to expand on this . 
Why with 
1) BIGGER displacement engine 
2) More modern engine with TONS more potential
3) DI technology 
4) stronger rods
Why is this 2L TFSI APR stage 3 kit with the same hardware/ turbo making much less power ????, espec under the curve ?? 
both these graphs are supplied from APR from APR dyno .







Bob.G









_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:37 AM 3-7-2008_

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:38 AM 3-7-2008_


_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:44 AM 3-7-2008_


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## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

I have installed integrated engineering connecting rods! When you come to Greece will you install the "strong" file to my car?


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## wale (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Maybe, yes, but its debatable. with the chip turned off, I couldn't catch up to the R-GTi in the Porsche









are u serious, or are u just being sarcastic?
why dnt u guys at apr make like a 5min video of the cars in the pictures, just introducing them, and what u have done to them, and if possible, a little driving action...


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## iSot (Mar 6, 2008)

I'm also like to see some videos with APR stage 3 in action ..... If stronger rods are must, so why not replace pistons at the same time ?? Stronger pistons could not harm anything... So if you change rods you can use Stage 3 with 100 octane file and keep smiling








Is it wrong to add waterinjector (if APR says NO for the warranty etc ?) and pump to the engine ?? I think so that it would be good for the enginelife and will downgrade lower the airheat....


_Modified by iSot at 7:20 AM 3-7-2008_


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## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Bob,
First, please note that the two graphs that you overlayed aren't using the same correction factors. The TT numbers are generated from wheel numbers to depict an estimated crank horsepower figure. The lines in black that you showed appear to be raw wheel numbers. To compare the two kits, use the crank corrected 2.0TFSI numbers from here http://www.goapr.com/VW/produc....html.
The VVT TT kits still makes 14hp more. Not a lot but a small amount. The VVT 1.8T used in the TT was the ultimate version of the 1.8T created by VAG. It's compression was a full half a point lower than the standard 1.8T engine. This is similar to the differences between the standard GTI/Jetta and the S3 engine. Oh, and the small difference in displacement between the 1.8T and 2.0T doesn't really matter for power output- you just turn the boost up. The VVT TT 1.8T kit is running between 26 and 30 psi while the 2.0T GTI is only running around 21 psi. The lower compression S3 2.0T would easily outbest the TT VVT power numbers numbers with our kit installed. 
If you were to compare the two kits (VVT TT 1.8T and 2.0T GTI/Jetta) you would find that although the power between the two is similar, the TT is an absolute dog compared to the FSI GTI. This is not to say that the TT kit is not nice but the 2.0T way outclasses it in real world driving. This is where the FSI technology comes into play. The 2.0T is so much more flexible, reponsive, and drivable. You won't see these differences on a dyno plot but it is nothing less then drastic.
The limiting factor of the 2.0T kit on pump fuel is the compression ratio of the engine which impacts the maximum spark advance. It is nearly 2 points higher than the VVT TT 1.8T. The FSI can bridge this gap partially but the low-compression VVT 1.8T TT ultimately has more headroom for higher boost levels whilst retaining acceptable levels of spark advance.
The 93/91 octane tunes of the 2.0T stage 3 are limited by spark advance dictated by the mechanics of the engine. They are not detuned for fueling limitations, connecting rods, etc. or any other purpose. The compression ratio must be lowered to make more power on 91/93. Again, S3 components would suffice fine here. A race gas program does not have the same limitations. With a race gas profile we can easily exceed the limitations of the 2.0T stock connecting rods and make more power. The graph shown in the beginning of this thread is just the tip of the iceberg.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Interesting. Is APR making a tune for the lower compression s3 setup?


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The 93/91 octane tunes of the 2.0T stage 3 are limited by spark advance dictated by the mechanics of the engine. They are not detuned for fueling limitations, connecting rods, etc. or any other purpose. 

 
So if the rods are not the limitation and the spark advanced is on pump which= too much cylinder heat then the FSI should be easy to help this limitation by using more fuel /lower A/F ratio for more aggressive tune for 93 octane program , maybe not 91 thou. 
IMO the pump gas tune is pretty conservative espec with 20psi ( really it tapers off too 18psi at redline ) with this turbo really like atleast @24psi , not sure why APR went with 2871 versus the 28RS if the boost limit was planned that low.







Bob.G



_Modified by rracerguy717 at 10:03 AM 3-8-2008_


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## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
So if the rods are not the limitation and the spark advanced is on pump which= too much cylinder heat then the FSI should be easy to help this limitation by using more fuel /lower A/F ratio for more aggressive tune for 93 octane program , maybe not 91 thou.

The FSI does help immensely. That is why the engine can do what it can on a compression ratio a point and a half higher than a 1.8T. We do use fuel to cool the EGTs. There is limits to everything and we have approached those. In an ideal world we would run 25-30 psi on pump fuel with ignition timing of 30 degrees advance. But this is a pipe dream on this engine (or just about any production engine) due to real world limitations.

_Quote »_IMO the pump gas tune is pretty conservative espec with 20psi ( really it tapers off too 18psi at redline ) with this turbo really like atleast @24psi , not sure why APR went with 2871 versus the 28RS if the boost limit was planned that low.







Bob.G

I don't know what you mean by conserative. 21psi on an engine with almost an 11:1 compression ratio on pump fuel and taking a 200hp stock engine to over 380hp doesn't seem conservative to me.








Yes, there is a bit more headroom in the turbo. We could have gone one size smaller on the turbo and reduced power by 40hp or so. We decided to go with the larger unit because it enabled us to make more power, it had negligible influence on lag, and it allowed for future upgrades to even higher power levels. Also realize that this turbo is pushing similar airflow at 21psi on the 2.0TFSI as it would at 25-28 psi on a 1.8T.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I don't know what you mean by conserative. 21psi on an engine with almost an 11:1 compression ratio on pump fuel and taking a 200hp stock engine to over 380hp doesn't seem conservative to me.










 
Brett like we spoke several times about and I haven't seen ANY improvement in 1-3gear is what I expected from APR BT kits and IMO is tuned good with great diveablity and reliability BUT 4th gear and up the motor is just FLAT and just doesn't pull hard hence the lower trap speeds Ive experienced several visits to track .Im not tuner but I know how things should feel and its off maybe boost, timing , engine load tables what ever . 
Like I commented to Joel " your customers will be the judge how well things are tuned and the dyno graph and numbers will speak for them self's soon enough including mine .
Like the saying goes "If you talk the talk you have to walk the walk". 
Customers expectation need to be met also not just the engineers . The customers know alot more then you give them credit ( atleast i feel I do, having modded several FI cars and bikes in my life ) but if your not listening you will never get it ! ! ! !. 
In my service business if you know the right question to ask and LISTEN to what the customer tell you 90% of the time they diagnose things for you .







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

I am sorry Bob, I don't know what else to tell you. We are doing the best we can. We have gotten excellent trap speeds in our testing. I have listened to you on your 4th gear complaint but after looking at numerous logs I can't see anything that can be done to change anything - everything (timing, fuel, boost, etc.) looks good. All of our numbers - dyno, street, track - line up. I can't replicate the problem and thus I can't offer a solution. Please, if you have a self-diagnosis for what you are experiencing I am all ears. I really want to see that you (and everyone else for that matter) are 100% satisfied but I don't know what else we can do. I hope you understand.
Thanks.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ All of * our *numbers - dyno, street, track - line up. I can't replicate the problem and thus I can't offer a solution. .
 
Lets see a customer car's numbers and results ???? I didn't think soo . 
What about a race gas program that I was promised back at Thanksgiving time ??? now you tell me you decided that your not going to make RACE gas program for stage 3 owners .

Just be upfront and honest from the begining .
Funny not once did you even ask me too see my logs ?? other than idle misfires logs.
Pretty Sad you guys had my car 3 times in AL and couldn't get the car to perform correctly .







Bob.G


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
Lets see a customer car's numbers and results ???? I didn't think soo . 
What about a race gas program that I was promised back at Thanksgiving time ??? now you tell me you decided that your not going to make RACE gas program for stage 3 owners .

Just be upfront and honest from the begining .
Funny not once did you even ask me too see my logs ?? other than idle misfires logs.
Pretty Sad you guys had my car 3 times in AL and couldn't get the car to perform correctly .







Bob.G


Here are my dyno results from the stage 3 kit, I am very happy.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_
Here are my dyno results from the stage 3 kit, I am very happy. 









Greg Im glad your happy with your kit and you will enjoy it , 
You have to remember Im comparing these numbers to past APR BT kit Ive owned, but looking at my graph that APR supplied there a big difference under the curve and most importantly the graph dosnt do justice as the way the power feels/ falls off ATLEAST on my car from 4th up 








I don't want people to take my bitching and things im saying wrong .
This kit is AWESOME with great driveablity and reliability and Ive always supported them and there products . But I trusted APR to develop it on my car then and then you show me / advertise one power level and deliver another, then tell me everything is ok and my logs confirms that also and car doesn't pull like it should in 4th gear and up it can only be one thing a water down SW tuned version . 
APR is the leader in the 4 cyl VAG BT kit and they should be leading , not just giving people just enough that's not how they made a name for them self and not the way they use to tune when there 1.8T BT stage 3 and 3+kits where develop I guess that's what happens when you get big you get conservative and forget your roots and the bean counters and lawyers start dictating things . 
Bottom line is be up front from the beginning and surpass your customers expectation not under deliver .
Ive been very patient( 3 trips to APR headquarters) and im tired of being mis-lead and im not going away and will continue to bring the heat







Bob.G 

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:24 AM 3-9-2008_


_Modified by rracerguy717 at 6:27 AM 3-9-2008_


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_
Here are my dyno results from the stage 3 kit, I am very happy. 









Hi Greg i just want to ask and point out is this 93 oct ? or 100oct? program and whats up with nearly 12.1 A/F?? for a 2L TFSI??? espec the way APR tunes as supposedly stays with factory 10-10.5 A/F with a BT . Bob.G












_Modified by rracerguy717 at 8:54 AM 3-9-2008_


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## mirror (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 

Pretty Sad you guys had my car 3 times in AL and couldn't get the car to perform correctly .







Bob.G


isn't this a contradiction in what you said hundreds of times?










_Modified by mirror at 9:36 AM 3-9-2008_


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (mirror)*

FWIW I know people have doubted APR's "graphical dynos" in the past. Here's gregs overlaid on bob's graph:


















_Modified by Arin at 12:38 PM 3-9-2008_


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (Arin)*

Thanks Arin for the overlay , looking at the both graphs Greg prob has 2 degrees of timing and leaner A/F to help the spool as it show . That deff improvement espec when there less load in the upper gear where im complaining about .







Bob.G


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## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_Thanks Arin for the overlay , looking at the both graphs Greg prob has 2 degrees of timing and leaner A/F to help the spool as it show . That deff improvement espec when there less load in the upper gear where im complaining about .







Bob.G

Aren't tailpipe sniffers fairly inaccurate? When did that change?
Dave


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Aren't tailpipe sniffers fairly inaccurate? When did that change?
Dave

that is correct that a/f reading is from a tailpipe sniffer at the end of the exhaust. The pull ranges in a/f from 11.7 to 11.9 which is almost a full point leaner then what it is. We see this same a/f on every apr stage 1 and 2 car we dyno. Also this dyno was done on 93 octane on the 93 octane program.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (mirror)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mirror* »_
isn't this a contradiction in what you said hundreds of times?









_Modified by mirror at 9:36 AM 3-9-2008_
 
Like I said the car runs does run well BUT its performance in 4th-6th has always struggled in that area and has always been ignored . 
What really brought things to a head is now hearing they/ APR all of a sudden refuse to make a 100 octane program and that's not acceptable atleast after the fact. If that's there position/decision that's fine they better be ready to take the heat . I have the vid of a 4th and 3rd gear consecutive pull against Sam's chipped EVO 9 and its night and day difference it would/dose clearly shows the car acts like to different beasts. 
Im not asking anything more or anything special from APR in the first place . But in the end if they cant get it done there a few tuners north that are more than capable.
But it would be sad if that's the route they force me to take and its even sadder I have to turn the heat up here on the forum but that's what happens when APR didn't address problems and ignores my concerns .







Bob.G


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Aren't tailpipe sniffers fairly inaccurate? When did that change?
Dave
 
Dave I know its usually off maybe 1/2 point with no cat from a top notch shop like Chris Green where Greg works .
The thing is I have never seen a 2L TSFI with A/F that flat lines like that at 3K , unless its its maybe in protection mode . 
Im not here to tear apart Greg results and im glad he is happy . 
Im here because Im unhappy with the performance of MY car. Bob.G


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
Dave I know its usually off maybe 1/2 point with no cat from a top notch shop like Chris Green where Greg works .


If it is being measured with no cat it should not change whether its at the turbo outlet or the tailpipe.
If there is a cat its useless period.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

hopefully i get everything i need to done by saturday and hit the dyno







ill do some 3rd and 4th gear pulls.


----------



## TheBox (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

I was gonna dyno mine tomorrow but im having some issues where the car falls on its face. and a high idle at times


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (TheBox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheBox* »_I was gonna dyno mine tomorrow but im having some issues where the car falls on its face. 
 
Looking at your logs you sent me it shows your over-boosting and then the TB is slamming shut looks like a faulty n-75 IMO .Just change it out .
Apr might want you to send your car there for a week to TRY and figure it out LOL







Bob.G


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

daaaaymn JR trapping @ 111 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
60' ?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 8, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Bob,
I am sorry to hear that your having some issues with the kit but i wanted to offer you some of my thoughts being a stg3 owner for the last 7 months and using it as my daily driver. I drive this car hard everyday and it has seen some tracks (road courses and strips) along the way. From the day i had this kit installed till now i have yet to have a single problem with it. 
As far as boost goes and this car being a load dependent boost management system, your not always gonna see 21psi everyday all day. I have noticed that in the colder weather until the car reaches operating temps i only see about 15-17psi. After it warms up in cold weather i usually spike around 20 and hold 18psi. As spring has started to roll around we have had some warmer days of around 70 degree's or so. I would notice that I would boost up to 20psi and then it would bump up to 21-22psi which would feel great and i would take the car through 3rd, 4th and 5th gear full boost and it felt really fast. I am having a hard time understanding how your are saying 4th gear doesn't feel fast.








When you do bring your car out of the garage for its first time in 3-4 months lets do some more logging and figure out whats going on, i will compare them to some logs i have and we can go from there. I am also having a hard time understanding where your coming from because not too long ago before your car went to sleep for the winter you were nothing but siked about your car....








Let me know when you have the car out and ready and i will be more than happy to help your figure this out!


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_daaaaymn JR trapping @ 111 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
60' ?

I got it on video...


----------



## 06MK5GTI (Jul 30, 2006)

i will be installing my kit next weekend and will take it to ngp to get the dyno done and then take it to the track---will post results--- hopefully all ok. Have had kit since december- looking forward to putting it in.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: (06MK5GTI)*

There are two things I'd like to clarify that may help other Stage 3 owners when they dyno there car.
First, all of our dyno graphs are 4th gear pulls. With our dyno, the "sweep" time can be set and we try to set it to represent a 4th gear street pull. Other (roller style) dynos use dyno braking load to control "sweep" time so certainly try to adjust it accordingly. Do understand however that "sweep" time hardly impacts peak horespower but can certainly control torque spikes especially at boost onset.
The graph from Bob's car posted earlier was a 4th gear pull.
Also, it's more accurate to use the calculated lambda value in Vag-Com rather than a tailpipe sniffer especially if the car still uses a catalyst. Our Stage 3 2.0TFSIs run approximately .78 lambda or 11.5:1 A/F. Although this is slightly leaner than our Stage 1 and 2 cars, EGTs are still safe due mainly to the efficiency of the Garret Turbo's turbine housing and the more freely flowing APR exhaust manifold.
Anyway, I hope this answers questions that some of you may have had.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Bob,
I am sorry to hear that your having some issues with the kit 
I am having a hard time understanding how your are saying 4th gear doesn't feel fast.









Chris This is what I keep receiving form APR that nothing is wrong.
I guess after 3 TIMES including the original time APR botched up my install at your home office and I received it back at Waterfest with a nice bright CEL and tons of codes how would you feel?? . 
Im not here for a debate but the bottom line is MY CAR DOESN'T PERFORM .
I trapped 103 when I received it Waterfest and numerous 103 traps one week after getting back the second time confirming the low power output , atleast its consistently slow








This is what i got from Brett who did the calibration and tuning 

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I am sorry Bob, I don't know what else to tell you. We are doing the best we can. We have gotten excellent trap speeds in our testing. I have listened to you on your 4th gear complaint but after looking at numerous logs I can't see anything that can be done to change anything - everything (timing, fuel, boost, etc.) looks good. All of our numbers - dyno, street, track - line up. .
 
It gets old after numerous 1100 mile trips down there and weeks/ month without the car 
If I where a customer reading this and in the market for a BT kit and ready to shell out up to $ 7200.00 I would be hesitant and want to make sure that im not going to get STUCK ( just like my self falling between the cracks ) and that the company would value each and every customer and address there concerns , instead of getting the same old lip service .







Bob.G


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Hi Bob, maybe you should take the suggestions of Sam and learn how to drive.


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hi Bob, maybe you should take the suggestions of Sam and learn how to drive.

Wow, APR customer service at it's finest.







You guys are always so tactful and professional...


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 8, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Bob,
I am asking you to get me some more recent logs when you actually get your car out of the garage from its slumber. I want to compare them to mine, we have identical setups and i would like to see where your car is supposedly lacking in comparison to mine. We have the exact same setup, though i dont have rods, and i was able to run 12.8 and 112mph... 
I really dont understand where you are coming from, are you just *saying* your car doesnt feel fast or what? I really want to help you here!










_Modified by [email protected] at 12:31 PM 3-10-2008_


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hi Bob, maybe you should take the suggestions of Sam and learn how to drive.

thats [email protected] up !


----------



## Gberg888GLI (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

nice car... whats done on the r8?


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hi Bob, maybe you should take the suggestions of Sam and learn how to drive.
 
Brett don't try to change the focus and get this post locked , your tuning is flawed on SOME stage 3 ECU and you should learn from your mistakes and stop ignoring it and " get off your high tuning horse"







.
That's the same arrogance that's didn't allow you to fix it in the first place . 
How many times slips would you like to see @ 103????? 
You can say all you want about driving, where not talking about ET trap doesn't lie = WHP and mine is low on many many clean passes with my foot to floor board LOL . 
Maybe Sam should have told you it went into limp mode the time he took it down the track and it smoked like diesel train , where that diesel vid Sam???







Bob.G


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (Gberg888GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gberg888GLI* »_nice car... whats done on the r8?

poopy pinstriping


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Bob,
I really dont understand where you are coming from, are you just *saying* your car doesnt feel fast or what? I really want to help you here!









_Modified by [email protected] at 12:31 PM 3-10-2008_
 
Chris Im done with APR Ill pay another tuner to clean up your tuning mess .







Bob.G


----------



## mj6234 (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

So you dyno'd 350whp and trapped 103? It sounds to me at some point the programming 'worked'. Are you sure there is nothing else going on?


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (mj6234)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mj6234* »_So you dyno'd 350whp and trapped 103? It sounds to me at some point the programming 'worked'. Are you sure there is nothing else going on?
 
That's what APR TOLD ME it dynoed but at this point I don't believe them or anything else I was told . 
Its def not 350 WHP IMO .


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
That's what APR TOLD ME it dynoed but at this point I don't believe them or anything else I was told . 
Its def not 350 WHP IMO .









come down here we will get it on the maha and see what it makes bob, i think we are going to hit the dyno saturday afternoon, did i send you a copy of the last APR stage 3 we had on their?


----------



## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hi Bob, maybe you should take the suggestions of Sam and learn how to drive.

Wow.
How do you still have a job?


----------



## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)




----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CiDirkona* »_









hahahaha


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CiDirkona* »_

















I apologize for Brett on behalf of APR. You must understand his position however. He is having his life's work torn apart based upon a feeling of someone half way across the country.
Bob,
At this point, if you would like to let me know what we can do better I will be sure to take your suggestions to the engineers but I think you should get a dyno graph first.
You seem to be most upset by your trap speeds but wasn't that before we had your car back the last time?
You knew as well as I that you were the first person in the world outside of APR and VWoA to get this kit and were therfore given a free install and a heavily discounted price, I was the first to get the production kit inside APR.
You gave us the feedback we requested and we picked your car up and corrected everything prior to our official release.
We provided you with a dyno graph of your car before we put it on the trailer to return to you and we stand behind that dyno graph 100%!
If you can show us that since you've last recieved your car there is an actual issue with the power output we will be more than happy to address the issue.
At this point, we have trap speeds from Waterfest whereas the passes were questionable and the car has since been reprogrammed to production software and had a failed sensor replaced, data logs of the production software that check out with our 112mph 12 sec car, a dyno graph of 350whp, no cel's and your reports that it feels slow.








What exactly are we supposed to think? I don't mean to be rude but we are confident the Stage 3 is fast from our own testing and from the amazing feedback every other owner has provided vs. a guy in NJ that says it feels slow.
I really wish you would simply get a dyno! If you had a dyno showing low power what do you think would happen then based on your previous experience with APR?
I can tell you what would happen. We would ask for logs so we could diagnose a potential hardware failure and if we don't fix it that way, then we would come pick up your car again at no expense to you and begin correcting it for you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What other company in this industry can/would do that?


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hi Bob, maybe you should take the suggestions of Sam and learn how to drive.




_Modified by shortydub at 5:28 PM 3-10-2008_


----------



## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I talk to the customers so the engineers don't have to!









Heheh








All in jest Keith -- thank you for stepping up to the plate and explaining the situation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

What exactly are we supposed to think? I don't mean to be rude but we are confident the Stage 3 is fast from our own testing and from the amazing feedback every other owner has provided vs. a guy in NJ that says it feels slow.


First off I live in NY Keith and second would you like me to post a dyno from APR stage 3 kit a shop installed in NJ ?? that put down 276WHP??? what happened there looks a camels back .







. 
Keith im done with APR plain and simple you guys dropped the ball with my car 3 times .







.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CiDirkona* »_








Heheh








All in jest Keith -- thank you for stepping up to the plate and explaining the situation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









LMAO!
You are correct though, I talk, they engineer! Both jobs have their ups and downs and their own unique difficulties.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
First off I live in NY Keith and second would you like me to post a dyno from APR stage 3 kit a shop installed in NJ ?? that put down 276WHP??? what happened there looks a camels back .







. 
Keith im done with APR plain and simple you guys dropped the ball with my car 3 times .







. 


Sorry, I don't know why I always think you live in NJ!
276whp? Who's car? I really wanna know because I definitely want to help get it right because that's definitely not right! Sure wish they would call us and let us know! Call this guy and let's get a thread going so we can all help figure this one out.


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Sorry, I don't know why I always think you live in NJ!
276whp? Who's car? I really wanna know because I definitely want to help get it right because that's definitely not right! Sure wish they would call us and let us know! Call this guy and let's get a thread going so we can all help figure this one out.

it was actually 272whp spiking 24psi holding around 20 to redline on the maha


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
it was actually 272whp spiking 24psi holding around 20 to redline on the maha

What was your's at the wheel? and who's car? you gotta graph?


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
What was your's at the wheel? and who's car? you gotta graph?

can't say anything bout my car yet thats up to [email protected] but seeing my car isn't done being tuned that would just be dumb, i think the kids name was john i will post a dyno chart later but right now i am working on marks stage 3 i should be done around 10pm tonight


----------



## BIGNICKSGTIS420 (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Nice to see that there are stg 3s trapping 110++


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
can't say anything bout my car yet thats up to [email protected] but seeing my car isn't done being tuned that would just be dumb, i think the kids name was john i will post a dyno chart later but right now i am working on marks stage 3 i should be done around 10pm tonight

I wanted to correlate the drive train loss on the maha. I thought you had a crank number you were throwing around for your car so I was under the impression that it would help us determine a good drive train calculation loss.
Please help explain the KMD dyno and what they/you tell peeps that dyno there.
I know that maha's read super low but I don't know how to get them back to be able to compare to dynojet's, mustangs, etc. but I was hoping you might!


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I know that maha's read super low but I don't know how to get them back to be able to compare to dynojet's, mustangs, etc. but I was hoping you might!
 
100 hp lower LOL


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

it doesn't read super low andre just made 324whp on it and went [email protected] so if your 350whp cars are trapping 110 it's no different then your dyno


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_
Here are my dyno results from the stage 3 kit, I am very happy. 









Have we conveniently forgotten about this dyno graph?


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

this isnt even bob g's dyno


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (shortydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortydub* »_this isnt even bob g's dyno

Correct, Bob G's dyno (admittedly supplied by us) was posted earlier and laid right on top of this one.










_Modified by [email protected] at 10:37 PM 3-10-2008_


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

do you have corrected #'s for that car?


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (shortydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortydub* »_do you have corrected #'s for that car?

 
I will post that sheet in the morning. Although the numbers are identical because Winpep 7 set the correction factor for that run at 1.00 STD corrected, and likewise it was 1.00 Uncorrected.


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*

will you repost the uncoorected one too? that one has some weird overlay on it tia


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (shortydub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shortydub* »_will you repost the uncoorected one too? that one has some weird overlay on it tia

here are 3 back to back runs to show how consistent the kit performs.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_
here are 3 back to back runs to show how consistent the kit performs.

 
Greg Im glad the kit is performing well on YOUR car








BUT its NOT performing well on MINE


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
Greg Im glad the kit is performing well on YOUR car








BUT its NOT performing well on MINE








 then don't blame the hardware or software just yet without dynoing the car or doing any logs for all you know the problem could be something totally unrelated to the stage 3 kit..


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_ then don't blame the hardware or software just yet without dynoing the car or doing any logs for all you know the problem could be something totally unrelated to the stage 3 kit.. 

Why that ?? 
1) APR installed the kit 
2) Tuned the kit 
3) Had the car 3 times back ?? came back marginally better when I received it back the second time and got some story about it was just a bad n-75 which I replaced a week before I brought it to them originally and worked flawless with NO codes, no CEL, for 1100 miles , how is it not APR related LOL


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
Why that ?? 
1) APR installed the kit 
2) Tuned the kit 
3) Had the car 3 times back ?? came back marginally better when I received it back the second time and got some story about it was just a bad n-75 which I replaced a week before I brought it to them originally and worked flawless with NO codes, no CEL, for 1100 miles , how is it not APR related LOL 


It could be dozens of things, flapper motor, throttle body, intake air temp sensor, map sensor, maf, boost leak, bad pcv, bad dv and the list goes on and on. Just get it resolved Brett has offered to pick up the car, and that still does not satisfy you, what will? And btw they are releasing a 100 octane program. They are just highly reccommending rods to be installed they did the same thing with the 1.8T Stage 3+ kit.


----------



## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*

I decided to go along with the Office Space theme...









hahaha








(Nothing personal Brett, you just make it easy to pick on ya -- I'd be proud to have the stage III kit in question http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







)


----------



## zex021 (Mar 29, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
Why that ?? 
1) APR installed the kit 
2) Tuned the kit 
3) Had the car 3 times back ?? came back marginally better when I received it back the second time and got some story about it was just a bad n-75 which I replaced a week before I brought it to them originally and worked flawless with NO codes, no CEL, for 1100 miles , how is it not APR related LOL 


someone here has a point.... ill agree with you apr service is http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_
It could be dozens of things, flapper motor, throttle body, intake air temp sensor, map sensor, maf, boost leak, bad pcv, bad dv and the list goes on and on. Just get it resolved Brett has offered to pick up the car, and that still does not satisfy you, what will? And btw they are releasing a 100 octane program. They are just highly reccommending rods to be installed they did the same thing with the 1.8T Stage 3+ kit. 
 
What to waste my time again? have my car for what another month ?
no thanks . Ill pay someone else Tune the car .


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
What to waste my time again? have my car for what another month ?
no thanks . Ill pay someone else Tune the car . 

send it to chris then, will figure out whats wrong with it, or we'll just put an SDS in it lol


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (zex021)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zex021* »_
someone here has a point.... ill agree with you apr service is http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

its actually one of the best in the industry, especially since they actually list a phone number on their website and have dedicated customer service employees.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CiDirkona* »_I decided to go along with the Office Space theme...









hahaha








(Nothing personal Brett, you just make it easy to pick on ya -- I'd be proud to have the stage III kit in question http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







)

*Is there a way to setup the scene in the picture?







*


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Also, I take the customer service jabs in good jest. That is fine. It doesn't bother me and a few of the replies were funny. Seriously though, I didn't offer to pick up Bob's car and won't because I have no reason to believe there is anything wrong with it (if it was broken or didn't perform due to a fault of ours, I would offer.) t3t41.8tgti, I 100% guarantee that his car runs just as well as your car. We ran his car at the track before it left and we ran way better numbers then he is claiming he was able to get. *This was in the middle of a 40+-year record heatwave in the south during the summer with a 300-lb man driving on pump fuel.* There is not a thing wrong with the car unless it has broke recently. The tuning is about as good as it gets without turning it into to a time bomb. If I had to choose a Jetta to drive, that would be the one.


----------



## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Also...

Did you just say that fat dudes shouldn't drive in hot weather?








j/k


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_
Did you just say that fat dudes shouldn't drive in hot weather?








j/k


----------



## CiDirkona (May 1, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Also, I take the customer service jabs in good jest. That is fine. It doesn't bother me and a few of the replies were funny.

Well played, sir. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: (CiDirkona)*

I'd like everyone to pay a visit to this thread
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3422488
Here you will find a happy Bob Griffin. For some reason however, his views have changed despite no software changes being made to his car since this post. So, either Bob has a hardware problem or he's gotten used to the power and now wants more.
As mentioned numerous times in this thread if a problem can be pointed out to us (either low dyno numbers or questionable logs) we'd be glad to diagnose your car. However, there's simply nothing we can do when you tell us 4th gear feels slower than desireable. The tuning is not gear based and so what you get in 3rd is what you get in 4th. Keep in mind that Jettas are bricks in the wind and once you get over 90mph, and more specificly 125mph (the end of 4th gear), drap starts to play a very signifigant role.
Bottom line: Get an independant dyno and post the results. We'll go from there.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

As mentioned numerous times in this thread if a problem can be pointed out to us (either low dyno numbers or questionable logs) we'd be glad to diagnose your car. However, * there's simply nothing we can do when you tell us 4th gear feels slower than desireable. * The tuning is not gear based and so what you get in 3rd is what you get in 4th. Keep in mind that Jettas are bricks in the wind and once you get over 90mph, and more specificly 125mph (the end of 4th gear), drap starts to play a very signifigant role.
.
 
Joel that's the problem right there always thinking like and Engineer you know and I know DATA doesn't ALWAYS show the complete picture . With this statement its perfectly clear you never drove my car , after being there 3 TIMES







. 
Im going to get a completely independent dyno soon.
Then im going to be present and re-dyno it again at the new tuner shop just before he re-tunes it and then again after , this will clearly show how much you guys left on the table. 
Hopefully the injectors you guys put in MY car have some head room, but from the logs of other kits that where recently received it doesn't look good they are pretty maxed out







. Bob.G


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

since i private messaged a few APR employees yesterday and never recieved any messages back from anyone i guess it's easier to just ask my questions here because i want to make sure jr's car stays safe, do you guys at APR feel having the injector on time reach into the 10's is safe? do all the cars run this way? i don't see any problem running the hpfp and 130bar but i don't like the looks of all those 8's, 9's and 10's when logging injector on time


_Modified by [email protected] at 3:58 AM 3-11-2008_


----------



## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

At least Bob you have a car...i dont have a car from November 2007 i'm waiting fo the super duper APR techs to show up in Greece (Estimated arrival March 21 200??? lol)
P.S Trust APR as so far from personal experience is the only company that have descent after sales support http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by csih at 5:09 AM 3-11-2008_


----------



## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Have we conveniently forgotten about this dyno graph?

Brett, you're already testing the limits of your credibility... Do you really want to go a step farther by using Greg to prop you up? I was first amazed you weren't ashamed enough by his recent actions on this board to censure him, but now you're using his words to bolster your own...


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
Joel that's the problem right there always thinking like and Engineer you know and I know DATA doesn't ALWAYS show the complete picture . With this statement its perfectly clear you never drove my car , after being there 3 TIMES







. 
Im going to get a completely independent dyno soon.
Then im going to be present and re-dyno it again at the new tuner shop just before he re-tunes it and then again after , this will clearly show how much you guys left on the table. 
Hopefully the injectors you guys put in MY car have some head room, but from the logs of other kits that where recently received it doesn't look good they are pretty maxed out







. Bob.G

 who are you using to tune the car, Tony?


----------



## munky18t (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: (nascent)*

I don't post up very often as i'm on this forum more so to gain information then to push my opinions.
I have to say that i'm pretty suprised by what i'm reading in this thread. I've always had alot of respect for Bob G. as he's always brought great information forward to many threads with data to back up what he has to say. This thread seems to move away from that trend.
As its been pointed out further up in this thread, Bob seemed to be happy with his Stage 3 kit right up until he had the car put away for the winter, then all of a sudden claims are made of the kit not working properly.
I'm not making an accusations, but this thread is giving me the impression that Bob has been approached by a tuner who wants to develop stage 3 software. Otherwise, i would have expected to see logs from Bob backing up his claims that his car is not working well, as this is what we are used to seeing and he is one to let the data speak for itself.
I can see that APR is willing to go out of their way to accomodate Bob and to ensure he is happy with there product, I hope they are able to get everything worked out


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (munky18t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *munky18t* »_As its been pointed out further up in this thread, Bob seemed to be happy with his Stage 3 kit right up until he had the car put away for the winter, then all of a sudden claims are made of the kit not working properly.

Exactly, his expectations are simply unrealistic or his perception has changed dramatically. He has never given any indication that his car is running any differently now then it was before he put his car up for the winter. And prior to this he was ECSTATIC about his car's performance. It doesn't make any sense.
Bob, good luck getting your car to make more power- at least with out turning it into a ticking time bomb. Alas, I don't doubt that you and whoever you decide to work with will decide to manipulate the results to seek your end motive. This is unfortunate and quite frankly, unfair.
As far as the '3 times' that Bob keeps mentioning, that is not quite accurate. The kit was installed in a frenzy and delivered at Waterfest. Bob was not happy so we took the car back and worked on it. It was then delivered to him. The '3rd time' that Bob is mentioning is when we offered him a superceded part at no charge (that had no effect on ultimate drivability or power.) We offered to ship the part but he happened to be coming through the area (for vacation I believe) and we installed the part when he came through. We didn't touch the calibration or any other part of the car because it was perfect- just as it had been since he got the car back. And once again, he left just as happy as he had when he got the car back previously. *Bob, made absolutely no mention of any complaints of 4th thru 6th gear power and he had just driven 1000 miles from NJ to the South and back.*
I don't know where the idea came from that we would not be releasing a race gas file ever for this car. As I understood it, Bob's car was up for the winter anyways. But if he wants one there is one that we can supply at this time.

_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_After a nice 2hr drive this morning i can tell you this car is FAST and the drivablity is OEM perfect not a hick cup , big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
Whats nice you can lug the car in 6th gear under 2k and it drives perfect and no down shifting needed.
I didn't have time to do a ton of logs , i just did a few to see where the CF was which gives me a good idea how aggressive the tune is and to my surprise APR has this thing stepped up a bit , compared to what my initial first impression and comparing APR history of being very very conservative also from owning there stage 3 + kits .
....
The bottom line is so far everything Ive experienced since the car been back feels and looks great .







Bob.G




_Modified by [email protected] at 11:31 AM 3-11-2008_


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

My 1.8T STG III+ feels like the power drops off in 4th gear. It's the lowest gear that doesn't spin the tires on the highway.








I think bob want's the tires to spin in 4th, he's a nut like that. 

send me some log's bob Ill be happy to take a look, and help troubleshoot.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Exactly, his expectations are simply unrealistic or his perception has changed dramatically. He has never given any indication that his car is running any differently now then it was before he put his car up for the winter. 
 
Brett if you put the same effort in listening to me and fixing my car problems that your using now to disprove me , we would not be here .

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Bob, good luck getting your car to make more power- at least with out turning it into a ticking time bomb. Alas, * I don't doubt that you and whoever you decide to work with will decide to manipulate the results to seek your end motive. * 

 
Brett the only motive I have is to have MY car perform like it should have in the first place and be satisfied .

Don't worry im going to be fair too both party's (good or bad) 
Hopefully its just the TUNING that's off / weak and nothing else .








p.s. Ive complained to you about 4th gear pulls from the beginning , just because i make no mention in that thread did mean it mysteriously went away LOL .
Anyone reading this look up the video that Sam (18bora) made when we did some pulls against his chipped EVO-9 . the first one was the 4th gear pull and it looked like I put the brakes on .
The second attempt was third gear which is very strong and pulled away .
The car would smoke black like train. The POOF is there Brett just ignores it .


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ Brett if you put the same effort in listening to me and fixing my car problems that your using now to disprove me , we would not be here .

I am listening but you are telling me absolutely nothing. Please I am all ears, tell me something!

_Quote »_Brett the only motive I have is to have MY car perform like it should have in the first place and be satisfied .

There is going to be many cars out there that are still faster then your Jetta and there are many platforms that have more potential (WRX, EVO, etc.) I am sorry but I can't perform miracles. For what it is your car is great and relatively fast.

_Quote »_Don't worry im going to be fair too both party's (good or bad)

I would like to believe that!

_Quote »_ Hopefully its just the TUNING that's off / weak and nothing else .









I have no indication that this is the case. But there are a lot of people out there that have been much more successful with this engine, making power with ME9, and VW turbo kits in general. Oh, wait, there isn't...

_Quote »_p.s. Ive complained to you about 4th gear pulls from the beginning , just because i make no mention in that thread did mean it mysteriously went away LOL .

Nope, you said you were quite happy when you got the car back.

_Quote »_ Anyone reading this look up the video that Sam (18bora) made when we did some pulls against his chipped EVO-9 . the first one was the 4th gear pull and it looked like I put the brakes on .
The second attempt was third gear which is very strong and pulled away .
The car would smoke black like train. The POOF is there Brett just ignores it .

The 'smoking' which said you got infrequently was completely fixed when we updated your injectors (at least according to you.)
My advice, sell the Jetta and get a car that has more potential for this type of thing. You aren't going to be able to keep up with Sam's ride with this car. This may seem counterintuitive being that we sell the kits for these cars but it is just plain fact.


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

What a soap oprah







. No BS though those dyno graphs Gregg posted were pretty consistent, So maybe it very well could be just your car.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ You aren't going to be able to keep up with Sam's ride with this car. This may seem counterintuitive being that we sell the kits for these cars but it is just plain fact.
 
Brett what are you talking about??? 
Its clear YOUR NOT LISTENING and the blinders are on and your in poor tuning denial LOL
SAMS Chipped EVO-9 which is what maybe 300AWHP at most ???.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

I am talking about his new WRX. Thanks for the continual insults though!
And I am listening to you, you aren't telling me anything.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_What a soap oprah







. No BS though those dyno graphs Gregg posted were pretty consistent, So maybe it very well could be just your car.

It's not his car. There isn't a damn thing wrong with his car. I guarantee that his car runs within 1% of what Greg's car does. It's his perception and expectations.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_What a soap oprah







. No BS though those dyno graphs Gregg posted were pretty consistent, So maybe it very well could be just your car.
 
It maybe just MY car im not doubting that and I really don't know , BUT the fact is they had MY CAR 3 times to figure things out and now there trying to Blow-ME off .









edit to add
BiG http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to the mods for not locking this Thread Ive tryed to keep it on track








Im not going away and will continue to bring the heat to APR so others don't get the run around like I have over the past year .



_Modified by rracerguy717 at 1:53 PM 3-11-2008_


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_What a soap oprah







. No BS though those dyno graphs Gregg posted were pretty consistent, So maybe it very well could be just your car.

It's not his car. There isn't a damn thing wrong with his car. I guarantee that his car runs within 1% of what Greg's car does. It's his perception and expectations.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
It maybe just MY car im not doubting that and I really don't know , BUT the fact is they had MY CAR 3 times to figure things out and now there trying to Blow-ME off .









Bob,
Noone is blowing you off sir! Mike T. spent some time with you last night, we are all watching this thread, Stephen has made you are number one priority.
We simply need to see some data so we can evaluate it! I thought you said you would get some logs for Mike and a dyno?


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
we are all watching this thread

So who is working?







J/K That's cool that you guys are taking initiative to fix customer issues unlike some people.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
It's not his car. There isn't a damn thing wrong with his car. I guarantee that his car runs within 1% of what Greg's car does. It's his perception and expectations.
 
Calibration denial ?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_
So who is working?







J/K That's cool that you guys are taking initiative to fix customer issues unlike some people.









Well, that's the point. We don't have any data other than Bob's feeling to help address an issue. When his car left here it was spot on, 350whp pulling out to redline.
He drove it for a good while, told us it was perfect and now says its not. We need something to show us there is actually something wrong. He's told us there is no change since he got his car back. So, its still making 350whp! How can he not be happy with that?


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I don't know...


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
so others don't get the run around like I have over the past year .

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 1:53 PM 3-11-2008_

So why then for the past year you have been APR FTW on every post and forum. You should address this issue outside of Vortex because you are going back on your words and on all the props you have giving to APR.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_
So why then for the past year you have been APR FTW on every post and forum. You should address this issue outside of Vortex because you are going back on your words and on all the props you have giving to APR.

I never said the kit was bad??? or APR [email protected] ???. 
But you can only take so much and then NO RACE gas just pushed me over the edge .
If you read back in this Thread I even said that the kit is AWESOME BUT MY car has issues that haven't been addressed . Believe me there where OTHER ISSUES that understandable a new kits go through you don't hear me bring those up in this thread ???. Bob.G
* Bottom line APR dropped the ball 3 times * , now there in damage control and im not going to be sweet talked again and give them another chance ( that would 4th time ).


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
I never said the kit was bad??? or APR [email protected] ???. 
But you can only take so much and then NO RACE gas just pushed me over the edge .
If you read back in this Thread I even said that the kit is AWESOME BUT MY car has issues that haven't been addressed . Believe me there where OTHER ISSUES that understandable a new kits go through you don't hear me bring those up in this thread ???. Bob.G
* Bottom line APR dropped the ball 3 times * , now there in damage control and im not going to be sweet talked again and give them another chance ( that would 4th time ).


So are you saying you don't want our help or anything?
Are you saying you lead us to believe everything was ok when it wasn't?
Why do you think there is no race gas program? I told you to send me your ecu!


----------



## WetWagen (Apr 23, 2006)

I thought my temper tantrum was bad.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

Why do you think there is no race gas program? I told you to send me your ecu!
 
Keith Pleaseeeeee be real I hate when someone start to back pedal did you forget this even after you said " send me your ECU"








(12:56 PM 3-5-2008) rracerguy717: Keith can you just send a file to RAPID and i can get it loaded there??LMK thanks Bob.G 

(1:36 PM 3-5-2008) [email protected]: do you really want it? you need rods and its not 100% I just learned. I plan to release it officially in the next few weeks, you wanna wait till them or take your engine in your own hands? the engineers say they would like to spend a little more time with it before I start sending it out to the public. whatcha think?

(2:08 PM 3-5-2008) rracerguy717: so what are you saying??? no 100 octane program without rods??? im not talking about the SEMA car file thats in that thread 

(2:10 PM 3-5-2008) [email protected]: Oh, that's what I was talking about. * there is no reason to make any other 100 oct file unless rods are installed.* the engineers are worried the oem rods won't handle much more than 350'ish wtrq.

* owned*











_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:40 PM 3-11-2008_


----------



## munky18t (Aug 30, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

so Keith is basically trying to save you from potentially damaging you engine?
what an A$$


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 


* owned*









_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:40 PM 3-11-2008_

Owned me?!? You never even owned you car!








This is deteriorating rapidly. As you can see, I offered to install the 100 oct file for you and told you we think you should install rods. Owned, LMAO! I think you owned yourself with that one sir!


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

WOW


----------



## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

once again it was the same story with the 1.8t stage 3+ kit, rods are strongly reccommended when running 100 octane, there not going to make a half ass race gas file.


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

Just be happy you have a big turbo kit and you havent been getting the run around on getting one. People keep telling me 3 weeks....3 weeks....


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

BTW if your putting down 350WHP what the hell are you complaining about?


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I think you owned yourself with that one sir!

Keith I made my mine up before I entered this thread 
Im done with APR ! ! ! ! ! 
I just want people to know how APR treats there customers . 
3 times is a charm 4th time is for chumps LOL 
Peace out


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
Keith I made my mine up before I entered this thread 
Im done with APR ! ! ! ! ! 
I just want people to know how APR treats there customers . 
3 times is a charm 4th time is for chumps LOL 
Peace out









No sweat Bob. Thank you for gracefully bowing out. Our offer still stands to help you if you can help us identify an issue. If you are unwilling to do so then I agree that you should be done with us as your car is perfect. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Owned me?!? You never even owned you car!


----------



## WOB-SH573 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
It's not his car. There isn't a damn thing wrong with his car. 

Hmm, I think I've heard that one before....








Took a while to read








Sounds like you got WAY more offers to fix things than I ever did Bob!
Good luck with th car.


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (WOB-SH573)*

I need more entertainment while I do my driving school online.


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Owned me?!? You never even owned you car!


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (shortydub)*


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_























kk last one. this ones not so bad.


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (shortydub)*

BOOOO thats weak j/k


----------



## DanGB (Jul 23, 2006)

Back on topic.
How does the big turbo effect the lower end of the rev range. I don't often drive above 2-4k on daily driving. how will the power differ from the stock turbo in this band?
Also, regarding this thread speicifcally, what is the UK or Euyropean equivilent of 100 octane. Across the pond, normal unleaded in 95RON, and 'super' is 97-99. I understand octane mesurements are different in US/Europe.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (DanGB)*

100 in the US is about 104-105 RON.


----------



## DanGB (Jul 23, 2006)

Ahh ok, In the uk, the highest widely avalible is 99RON.
you can get 102RON, but its only sold in 10 petrol stations in the whole of the country. 
Will we get a UK equivilant APR?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (DanGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DanGB* »_Back on topic.
How does the big turbo effect the lower end of the rev range. I don't often drive above 2-4k on daily driving. how will the power differ from the stock turbo in this band?
Also, regarding this thread speicifcally, what is the UK or Euyropean equivilent of 100 octane. Across the pond, normal unleaded in 95RON, and 'super' is 97-99. I understand octane mesurements are different in US/Europe.

Dan,
The low end is definitely affected however looking at this Stage 3 graph vs. a stock 2.0T FSI graph......








you can see that the Stage 3 reaches and eclipses the oem torque by 3100 rpm's and is only slightly lower starting at 2500 rpm's.
You will feel like you've given some down low up because the mid range comes on so much harder but in essence you will only be sacrificing a very small amount of drivability.
Arin is correct about the fuel! Our Stage 3 91 oct is on par with your 95 ron and our 93 oct is on par with your 98 ron. Our Stage 3 100 oct file would be similar with 104-105 ron.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (DanGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DanGB* »_Ahh ok, In the uk, the highest widely avalible is 99RON.
you can get 102RON, but its only sold in 10 petrol stations in the whole of the country. 
Will we get a UK equivilant APR?

Dan,
I am honestly not sure of our plans for race gas calibration in Europe. I would suggest giving Mr. Cotton a ring and suggesting it to him.


----------



## DanGB (Jul 23, 2006)

Thanks Keith
Im not to clued up on this, but is the power less low down (especially compared to my stg2) becuase the turbo takes longer to spool up? Is it tuned to create as much low down as possible?


_Modified by DanGB at 2:11 PM 3-11-2008_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (DanGB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DanGB* »_Thanks Keith
Im not to clued up on this, but is the power less low down (especially compared to my stg2) becuase the turbo takes longer to spool up? Is it tuned to create as much low down as possible?

The larger the turbo, the bigger the exhaust wheel, the more mass the wheel has, the more energy (exhaust gasses), it takes to make it turn.
Think of it as a small wind mill vs. a large wind mill like one you see from Holland on the tulip farms vs. one see that they use to make wind power.
So yes, its the size of the turbo or more precisely the exhaust wheel and not the calibration. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh, and yes, part of our calibration is to make sure it will spool as fast as the laws of physics will allow!


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

mark if your out their watching i am going to have some pictures of you car up tonight


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

marks car


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_marks car









 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WetWagen (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Owned me?!? You never even owned you car!








This is deteriorating rapidly. As you can see, I offered to install the 100 oct file for you and told you we think you should install rods. Owned, LMAO! I think you owned yourself with that one sir!

Let him blow it up. 
No matter if it does or doesn't - it will at least tell us how well the bottom end holds up.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Change your sig.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_marks car










How did the install go?


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
How did the install go?

i didn't flash it yet....


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
How did the install go?

yeah mark is going to flash it tonight so with the bigger maf and bigger injectors it just misses right now underload, install went fine the car is very very low so their is minimal clearance in the dv/compressor outlet hose/axle area but he has all 3 vf mounts so the motor should not be rocking very far but other than that it is very very straight forward


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
yeah mark is going to flash it tonight so with the bigger maf and bigger injectors it just misses right now underload, install went fine the car is very very low so their is minimal clearance in the dv/compressor outlet hose/axle area but he has all 3 vf mounts so the motor should not be rocking very far but other than that it is very very straight forward

just got the flash code from Tom.....
Keith can you shoot me a pm to verify it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
slo n low


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
just got the flash code from Tom.....
Keith can you shoot me a pm to verify it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
slo n low









i wonder whats going to happen to the poor "speaker box" contraption hiding inside of your dash - connected to the "noise pipe"


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (mwwVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_
i wonder whats going to happen to the poor "speaker box" contraption hiding inside of your dash - connected to the "noise pipe"

completely forgot about it


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

Isn't is still all connected?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
yeah mark is going to flash it tonight so with the bigger maf and bigger injectors it just misses right now underload, install went fine the car is very very low so their is minimal clearance in the dv/compressor outlet hose/axle area but he has all 3 vf mounts so the motor should not be rocking very far but other than that it is very very straight forward

oh come on JC! Surely you have more than that for me! Did you have to modify/clearance any parts at all? How complete was the kit? Did you have to buy any parts in addition?
Give us the install impression!


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
just got the flash code from Tom.....
Keith can you shoot me a pm to verify it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
slo n low









Tom makes the codes! He should know best and is the gatekeeper of APR!


----------



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
oh come on JC! Surely you have more than that for me! Did you have to modify/clearance any parts at all? How complete was the kit? Did you have to buy any parts in addition?
Give us the install impression!

their is nothing more to it than that it is honestly straight forward, everything is in the manual if you can't figure it out yourself, i am not a fan of the one rubber coolant line but it doesn't hurt anything as it is, but as i said everything was straight forward and bolts right up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
o yeah and the manifold i have to admit is very quality and a very good design


_Modified by [email protected] at 9:12 AM 3-12-2008_


----------



## John_S (Jan 2, 2008)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_









What is the R-GTI? I called my local dealer and they only have GTI's, no R-GTI


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (John_S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *John_S* »_
What is the R-GTI? I called my local dealer and they only have GTI's, no R-GTI










The .:R-GTi is a Volkswagen Concept Car for SEMA 2006!
http://www.vwvortex.com/artman...shtml For more info!








Its the black one in the above pic!


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*

...if your dealer gets a lead on the R-GTI, let me know fo sho!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (GotHerFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GotHerFast* »_...if your dealer gets a lead on the R-GTI, let me know fo sho!

Not gunna be production.
It was more of a 'what can we do and still have a reliable functional car'. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mdgti (Mar 13, 2008)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (Arin)*

I am new to this forum. I have lurked and read for a long time. I want to say that APR has been nothing but fabulous to work with. I have been working with them through one of their authorized dealers in Chicago GRD with a Stage 3 for my GTI 2008 whcih was just dyno'ed today. The numbers are posted in another thread :
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3732431
The APR team has been nothing but awesome. Unbelievable customer support that blows a lot of tuners out of the water. Truly amazing. GRD is also amazing and professional Thanks and my numbers (dyno) are great! Thanks guys.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Not gunna be production.
It was more of a 'what can we do and still have a reliable functional car'. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

...I guess my sarcasm and joking was lost through typing...








I know. DUH!








I got a ride in it at my first HPDE.







I was just sorta like this:


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (GotHerFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GotHerFast* »_
...I guess my sarcasm and joking was lost through typing...








I know. DUH!








I got a ride in it at my first HPDE.








I was just sorta like this:









What does everyone think a fair price for a .:RGTi would be?


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
What does everyone think a fair price for a .:RGTi would be?

more than most people would pay....for a GTI. thus it wont go production.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
What does everyone think a fair price for a .:RGTi would be?

..without Haldex, as a FWD? I dunno.
..make it AWD and it'd be an easier sell...though the CF bodywork alone adds a LOT of cost I know, without all the fancy craziness in the cockpit (huh huh I said cawk) or under the hood.

I guess I just want a BT upgraded S3...










_Modified by GotHerFast at 4:28 PM 3-13-2008_


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (mdgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mdgti* »_I am new to this forum. I have lurked and read for a long time. I want to say that APR has been nothing but fabulous to work with. I have been working with them through one of their authorized dealers in Chicago GRD with a Stage 3 for my GTI 2008 whcih was just dyno'ed today. The numbers are posted in another thread :
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3732431
The APR team has been nothing but awesome. Unbelievable customer support that blows a lot of tuners out of the water. Truly amazing. GRD is also amazing and professional Thanks and my numbers (dyno) are great! Thanks guys.

Thank you for the kind words! I'm glad you are enjoying the new power! Props to GRD for a great install as well.
What's your driving impressions?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (GotHerFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GotHerFast* »_
..without Haldex, as a FWD? I dunno.
..make it AWD and it'd be an easier sell...though the CF bodywork alone adds a LOT of cost I know, without all the fancy craziness in the cockpit (huh huh I said ****) or under the hood.

Yeah, I agree with Prodigy too. Adding the Haldex would increase the cost dramatically again over carbon bits etc.
I wonder how much VW would take for the concept one.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yeah, I agree with Prodigy too. Adding the Haldex would increase the cost dramatically again over carbon bits etc.
I wonder how much VW would take for the concept one.

..I bet Andres would put a mortgage out for it...


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*

I'd be interested in seeing a production body kit if they could make it out of the standard materials and not carbon fiber. At first glance it looks a bit to big in the front, but it's kinda grown on me especially now that I have the APR IC. Having the extra large opening in the front with that massive IC would be really nice.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by Arin at 1:32 PM 3-13-2008_


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_I'd be interested in seeing a production body kit if they could make it out of the standard materials and not carbon fiber. At first glance it looks a bit to big in the front, but it's kinda grown on me especially now that I have the APR IC. Having the extra large opening in the front with that massive IC would be really nice.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









_Modified by Arin at 1:32 PM 3-13-2008_

I thought there were rumors that they were going to make it?


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_I'd be interested in seeing a production body kit if they could make it out of the standard materials and not carbon fiber. At first glance it looks a bit to big in the front, but it's kinda grown on me especially now that I have the APR IC. Having the extra large opening in the front with that massive IC would be really nice.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Good call, and I'll take a set of the mirrors...


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... (GotHerFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GotHerFast* »_
Good call, and I'll take a set of the mirrors...









I'm all about those seats especially the rears with the roll bar.


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## Boosted_Bunny (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*

Yeah I didn't see the back seat... but the fronts were MORE than cozy.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I thought there were rumors that they were going to make it?

Heard that too but I only ever saw the thunder bunny bumper kit which looks like thunder garbage dick.


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## runningoutofspace (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I thought there were rumors that they were going to make it?

The guys at Zmax said VW won't allow it.


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## mdgti (Mar 13, 2008)

*Re: The R-GTI gets more power.... ([email protected])*

I am picking it up on Saturday, and I will let you know my impressions! Thanks again


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## GTIBOIL (Jan 24, 2007)

what would be the cost for rebuilding the motor? labor and parts? if using new forged pistons and rods


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (GTIBOIL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTIBOIL* »_what would be the cost for rebuilding the motor? labor and parts? if using new forged pistons and rods

about 1k for rods and pistons like 1300 if you get coated pistons
labor will be somewhere between 1.5k-2k


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Jeff, After that big talk below keith gave you about corrected and uncorrected why do they continue to post * corrected numbers * ??? LOL








[email protected]
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Online 
Member Since
4-14-2005
3191 posts
Auburn AL
R32, MK5 GTi, MK1 Cabby 16v
Re: ([email protected]) » « » 11:54 AM 4-8-2008 

Quote, originally posted by [email protected] » 
are you missing that it is 339 uncorrected, if it were corrected it would be 32x whp and 270-280 torque 
JC,
* I thought we discussed already why you can't correct down for ambient and why ambient correction factors are not applicable to boosted engines.* 
SAE Ambient Correction is non applicable on turbocharged cars. What you are saying is exactly like saying, "yeah but if you manipulate the dyno setup by 6% it will make lower numbers". That's obvious so I am unsure of your point in bringing up SAE Correction repeatedly. 


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_








 

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 1:33 PM 4-30-2008_


_Modified by rracerguy717 at 1:34 PM 4-30-2008_


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

Bob,
That post was after I posted this graph. Yes, we are changing our marketing program to use only raw numbers as opposed to corrected for turbocharged engines on all of our future forum postings that contain wheel number graphs. Our website dyno graphs are converted crank hp using a typical correction of 1.06 so you can rest assured our numbers are always able to be recreated.










_Modified by [email protected] at 10:44 AM 4-30-2008_


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Bob,
That post was after I posted this graph. Yes, we 

_Modified by [email protected] at 10:41 AM 4-30-2008_
 
That's fair. LOL 
but then why wasnt there a revised dyno chart??? whats uncorrected numbers ??


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
That's fair. LOL 
but then why wasnt there a revised dyno chart??? whats uncorrected numbers ??









Unfortunately I won't be able to go back to every single whp dyno graph for turbocharged engines that has been posted and change it out with an uncorrected one. However, please refer to http://www.goapr.com for the most up to date and accurate information.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Unfortunately I won't be able to go back to every single whp dyno graph for turbocharged engines that has been posted and change it out with an uncorrected one. However, please refer to http://www.goapr.com for the most up to date and accurate information.








 
I wasnt talking about everyone , im talking about the one in question here . 
Ill be looking foward to when this new release is posted with the * correct , uncorrected WHP numbers * on your website, just keeping you honest







LOL




_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:27 PM 4-30-2008_


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## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
I wasnt talking about everyone , im talking about the one in question here . 
Ill be looking foward to when this new release is posted with the * correct , uncorrected WHP numbers * on your website, just keeping you honest







LOL
_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:27 PM 4-30-2008_

I thought the whole corrected vs. uncorrected dyno numbers debate has been squashed already? Why are we still talking about this? 
The website has the most accurate information, and will continue to have accurate information.
I have an Audi A3 with the Stage III and I am beyond happy with it. 3rd gear, and especially 4th gear pulls extremely hard on the highway, smooth as butter even. 
Chris and I both have the same setup, and we are within maybe 2-3 hp within each, on ANY given day. Are these considered APR shop cars? No, I would NOT consider them shop cars. We drive them everyday, and they are great daily cars.










_Modified by [email protected] at 1:54 PM 4-30-2008_


_Modified by [email protected] at 1:57 PM 4-30-2008_


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
I wasnt talking about everyone , im talking about the one in question here . 
Ill be looking foward to when this new release is posted with the * correct , uncorrected WHP numbers * on your website, just keeping you honest







LOL
_Modified by rracerguy717 at 2:27 PM 4-30-2008_

As I previously stated, you will find crank numbers on our website and any whp reports will be on the forums. In the future, you will see them all as uncorrected for F/I applications.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I thought the whole corrected vs. uncorrected dyno numbers debate has been squashed already? Why are we still talking about this? 
The website has the most accurate information, and will continue to have accurate information.
I have an Audi A3 with the Stage III and I am beyond happy with it. 3rd gear, and especially 4th gear pulls extremely hard on the highway, smooth as butter even. 
Chris and I both have the same setup, and we are within maybe 2-3 hp within each, on ANY given day. Are these considered APR shop cars? No, I would NOT consider them shop cars. We drive them everyday, and they are great daily cars.










_Modified by [email protected] at 1:54 PM 4-30-2008_

_Modified by [email protected] at 1:57 PM 4-30-2008_

5th abd 6th gears is where its at


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## Super 180s (Nov 14, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hi Bob, maybe you should take the suggestions of Sam and learn how to drive.

Oh no you didn't just say that...
In one second, you have forever ruined my perception of APR customer service!


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Super 180s)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Super 180s* »_
In one second, you have forever ruined my perception of APR customer service!

Wow....
Brett I really feel for you if these are the kind of matters you/APR have to battle with.








Last I checked APR's products were their selling points.Focus on that....


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## D-TechniK (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Guys really interesting dyno numbers. Just curious about the mileage you guys with the BTs have on your cars? (total miles on motor and total miles driven with BT?)


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## D-TechniK (Aug 25, 2002)

*Re: (Golf_FL)*

ttt


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