# Integrated Engineering's "Project 2.5L Engine Dyno" Build Up Thread



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Hi guys! While we have some engine parts already available for the 2.5L, we are about to really get kicking on a *bunch* more. Since many of these parts will require power testing, we will be setting up a 2.5L on our in house Superflow 902 engine dyno. I'll be chronicling that build as well as the coming engine build & parts development all in this thread.









_IE engine dyno.... this big power 1.8T is about to get shelved to make way for a 2.5L I5_

Currently the plan (as of today) is to get this stock '09 2.5L we have mounted up. And that means getting off the top shelf! 








_Pete running the official IE engine lift_









_This is the new 2.5L I5 power plant for the engine dyno, this guy is going to see A LOT of cool stuff in the future._

We have decided to run totally stock accessories and go from there- so that means figuring out how to hold the dang motor into our ~ longitudinal dyno setup without any motor mounts coming in from the "sides" as traditional- so the fun starts. 









_As any good part, mock up starts with paper_









_The final engine mount solution drawn up and ready for prototype_









_If it does not work, looks like it could make a good kitchen counter decoration_ :laugh:

We also need to adapt our bellhousing, starter, and throwout bearing etc. I will cover that stuff here just for kicks. Then we will be wiring it up on AEM's new standalone ECU, which will give us fast, consistent control over the engine. Then the testing will commence, starting with tuning the stock 2.5L on pump fuel (91 for us) and working up from there. Somewhere in the middle we anticipate building the motor to turbo spec, and the R&D will continue.









_We will also give you updates on other 2.5 projects not necessarily for the engine dyno, anyone guess what we are working on here?_

So, hopefully I won't bore you guys to death and you will stay tuned  You will have to understand however that some of these products take literally seasons to develop from idea to shelf part- hell we have some that the development time is over a year! So, don't get too crazy on me if the updates on a particular part aren't ultra frequent. :thumbup:


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Sounds pretty sweet!


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## cracKness (Feb 20, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> _We will also give you updates on other 2.5 projects not necessarily for the engine dyno, anyone guess what we are working on here?_


OOO valve cover? What do I win?



[email protected] said:


> ... You will have to understand however that some of these products take literally seasons to develop from idea to shelf part- hell we have some that the development time is over a year...


Sweet, the cool stuff starts coming out when I start being able to afford them 

BTW: Edit your Sig, you might have left an open [] somewhere, the link by the word Performance is a little screwy. Also, might want to make your email addy clickable too. :thumbup:


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Sub'd!!! I excited to begin filling my bay with everything IE.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Looks like delrin! That's a valve cover to say the least! 

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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

"Ivory" color ABS Rapid prototype... 

Here's how it's done.






We principally print castings and other stuff with high tooling costs with it, or if we get in a bind and something is difficult to measure, etc... However the 2.5L valve cover seal was so intricate that we ended up printing the end sections to check fit before signing the prints over to manufacture.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Looks like a Stratasys machine. Company located locally. Fun stuff.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

let me know how much of a pain it is to get the cam phasing synced on the AEM EMS, I've heard its best to calibrate off the trailing edge of the windows when dealing with Haltech but I've heard about issues with the 4 window cam rotor in AEM EMS. I'm currently doing tons of SEM research and leaning toward Haltech despite having training on the AEM and wholesale pricing access


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

if you do get the AEM EMS working nicely with cam phasing control shoot us a base map price because I'd totally run it in a heartbeat since I've had my hands in it a little and really like working with it


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

The box we are going to use is the new AEM ECU- not their old "EMS". We are just actually signing up to be an AEM WD right now because of this awesome new ecu. It can handle anything you throw at it- cam timing (qaud), dual drive by wire, even direct injection. 

Being direct with them we will work with them to figure it out and more then likely have a package available with harness & basemaps. Between the engine dyno, tons of datalogging and a 'scope, we have the resources to get it done. :beer:

To be honest, while I will work on the cam control, I'm not too worried about it, due to certain future developments in the pipeline that will drastically reduce valve to piston clearance  and greatly limit the VVT travel you can use anyways. :thumbup: To be totally honest we were looking at making inserts to limit the VVT travel for those reasons, but comp cams has a patent pending that is going to force us into an either locked, or software only solution- which is a little scary to say the least. 

Pete


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Oh man now we're talking! So are we going to dump the whole vvt system down? And is there a head spacer in the works? I'm thinking that may be my next build arena.and the new sri's being released with a nice turbo file!

However stand alone with direct wired harness that were pre made sounds VERY appealing, may be a little too costly at the present time for myself though...but I still would like the option in the future

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Mar 4, 2011)

Pretty excited about this! :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup: Just weld your baffling in on those valve covers :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

How much are these? I want one :laugh: Start printing random sh*t and giving you guys surprise packages of "things" ROFL


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## ThEnergizer (Mar 19, 2009)

Sub'd.


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

In!


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## anteramk5jetta (Sep 11, 2011)

SUB'D :thumbup::thumbup:


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

TylerO28 said:


> Oh man now we're talking! So are we going to dump the whole vvt system down? And is there a head spacer in the works? I'm thinking that may be my next build arena.and the new sri's being released with a nice turbo file!
> 
> However stand alone with direct wired harness that were pre made sounds VERY appealing, may be a little too costly at the present time for myself though...but I still would like the option in the future
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


Yeah we don't wanna totally dump the VVT cuz that will increase turbo lag. But yeah Tyler the other local 2.5T to you is owned by someone trained in AEM EMS, figuring the new system won't be too horrible to figure out especially if we have a base map. I'd be down to share my knowledge with you


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

This is good news! So is this new aem setup pretty official? I know they make nice products, but with this can we even use it to run water/meth injection? Stage injectors for a dual fuel rail?

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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

Yes you can, and if you start out with an aem meth kit control can be slaved to the ecm or at least it was that way with ems. You'd also get boost by gear and antilag strategies. I'm assuming aux outs for fan control of extra fans such as on intercooler. Also fully computerized nitrous control. Not to mention you aren't trying to trick a stock computer into playing nice with stuff vw didn't intend for it to deal with. You can tune off any map or maf sensor you have a calibration for as well.

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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> :thumbup::thumbup: Just weld your baffling in on those valve covers :thumbup:


That was the plan  



kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> How much are these? I want one :laugh: Start printing random sh*t and giving you guys surprise packages of "things" ROFL


The machines aren't *terribly* expensive, but the material also adds up quickly. Your typical cost to print is roughly $6.50 per cubic inch of material volume. When we print intake manifolds that gets expensive *quick*. 

That said, if you have ideas, our ears / minds are always open, and we certainly have the means to develop just about anything. :thumbup:


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## TheZooKeeper (Jan 28, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

I want to follow this thread.:beer:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Still engineering our engine mount bracket and then we need to get the 1.8T engine off the dyno before we have any big updates. So we started getting the motor ready with a few of our shiny billet accessories.

Tearing everything off:


















And the new stuff goes on:


















Injectors seated into one of our billett rails:


















Fuel rail installed in its new home:









Bigger update coming soon! :thumbup:


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

that rail is sexy... any chance of getting it in an anodized black


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

It's funny because at first i was like, "Why would they do it in red that would just looks stupid."

Then i was like, "Ohhhh, now i get it."


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Hmmm? Would those cam seals in picture number 1 be able to be manufactured triple o ring sealed?

I know the Honda guys have issues with them. Are the 2.5 seals plastic? I've not noticed mine!

The second picture is all too familiar due to my recent flywheel/clutch upgrade! I can honestly say I don't want to have to do that again for a long time!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

TylerO28 said:


> Hmmm? Would those cam seals in picture number 1 be able to be manufactured triple o ring sealed?
> 
> I know the Honda guys have issues with them. Are the 2.5 seals plastic? I've not noticed mine!
> 
> The second picture is all too familiar due to my recent flywheel/clutch upgrade! I can honestly say I don't want to have to do that again for a long time!




The 2.5L / fsi / mk5 cam seals are already on our agenda- because billet ones will look awesome. The head is thin enough there IIRC a double O ring is all that is possible. The OE seal is metal / natural butyl rubber- which is not good for extended periods of high temp. 

Our agenda is just way (*#(*$#('d with lots of parts backing up both machines... :laugh:

-Pete


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Our agenda is just way (*#(*$#('d with lots of parts backing up both machines... :laugh:


Time for a new machine.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

zevion said:


> Time for a new machine.


Or two or three :thumbup: Ears perked for billet seals


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Or two or three :thumbup: Ears perked for billet seals












Something like that  :laugh:

Que'd for production now. :thumbup:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Tearing everything off:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Something like that  :laugh:
> 
> Que'd for production now. :thumbup:


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Exactly what I was thinking! Nice! Do these require pulling the cams? Or just the valve cover? Ooh buddy all of this red billet stuff is gonna be incredible under my hood


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

They are trapped by the cam tray, so they would require the cams to be at least partially removed, but the chain would not have to come off and the motor would not have to be re-timed. 

If you guys are ok with a little more expense I can see if there is room to make some sort of 2 piece setup... I bet you would need ninja fingers to assemble it in there though with the cam tray still on.

I mostly figured people could pop them in when they are installing a set of.... oh wait top secret. :laugh: 

Whatever you guys want


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## dlob32 (Aug 17, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I mostly figured people could pop them in when they are installing a set of.... oh wait top secret. :laugh:


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> ...I mostly figured people could pop them in when they are installing a set of.... oh wait top secret. :laugh:


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## anteramk5jetta (Sep 11, 2011)

Hmmmmmmm.... I think I'm gonna be broke soon.....


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Update: 

Had time to work on the spacer today... Quick question, what would you guys prefer most, listed in order of most expensive to cheapest... 1) Same exact grooves as stock, so it will use OEM seals 2) Grooves for provided aftermarket O rings 3) A custom cut gasket... 

Just need some feedback on what direction you guys would rather move in that direction and I will wrap this up. I also got the mill free today so I am going to machine that engine mount bracket and start getting the motor on the dyno.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Aftermarket o-rings.

You're putting injector ports on there, right?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

That's just a phenolic these guys were requesting... The same thing will become part of a manifold but it will be a casting. :thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Well I'm down. I say go with what will be the easiest gasket to get a hold of, when the dealer stops stocking the now discontinued 2.5's


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

My vote is for aftermarket


You got a free mill???? LUCKY!


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## RedRumGTI (Dec 6, 2003)

I vote oem, with the akward shap that the runners are its hard to get a round o ring to sit well. Are you milling them or using one of those layering/plastic protoype machines?


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

I had an interest in a phenolic gasket to keep the C2 SRI cool during extended 'idle' periods, but I found that once you start moving the manifold cools down rapidly. 
*I'm basing these claims on whether or not the surface of the manifold was "cool" or "hot" to touch. 

For a long while, I was communicating with a company that provided compressed teflon sheet and I was going to trace and cut my own but couldn't justify the time and effort involved.
Didn't seem worth it considering the manifold was always cool to touch after driving - even after extended periods of flogging.

Moreover, the stock manifold is a plastic composite. No need for a gasket on the stock manifold.

Having said that, I support IE and everything they're doing for the 2.5l engine. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

DriveVW4Life said:


> Having said that, I support INA and everything they're doing for the 2.5l engine. :thumbup:


Agreed

sent from tapatalk


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Whatever is the cheapest and easiest for you to make and that will work with any aftermarket manifold. Thats what Id like.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> That's just a phenolic these guys were requesting... The same thing will become part of a manifold but it will be a casting. :thumbup:


It depends. Is this going to be the fix for the spray pattern issues on c2, and UMs flange. Thats what Im worried about. I was suggesting a phenolic spacer as a fix, not for cooling or whatever else these guys are wanting it for. Im doing the s/c setup and I want to do a return system, but your fuel rail is the only option, and I want to run the stock/oem spray pattern.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Any proof the spray pattern/angle are different then stock or are you alleging so?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DriveVW4Life said:


> Any proof the spray pattern/angle are different then stock or are you alleging so?


I.E. said it themselves... With their rail on UM and c2 flange the injectors can't be in the correct pattern because they hit the head. What I'm alleging is that must mean you can't plug them in either. Idk its a big deal to me.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I.E. said it themselves... With their rail on UM and c2 flange the injectors can't be in the correct pattern because they hit the head. What I'm alleging is that must mean you can't plug them in either. Idk its a big deal to me.


I see that now in their other products thread..
For the sake of good conversation, I'm going to take this discussion there.
I have a C2 SRI and the rail is pretty close to stock angle as far as I recall during installation.
Tomorrow I will go out and snap some pictures and we'll all compare.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DriveVW4Life said:


> I see that now in their other products thread..
> For the sake of good conversation, I'm going to take this discussion there.
> I have a C2 SRI and the rail is pretty close to stock angle as far as I recall during installation.
> Tomorrow I will go out and snap some pictures and we'll all compare.


Do you have ie's rail? Just taking it from them. They said it. I'm using c2 flange for the supercharger and need a return setup. Need a rail to build it around. This is where phenolic spacers came into the equation.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Do you have ie's rail? Just taking it from them. They said it. I'm using c2 flange for the supercharger and need a return setup. Need a rail to build it around. This is where phenolic spacers came into the equation.


No, stock rail with C2 manifold.
I posted a couple of comparison pictures in the IE product thread that I borrowed form the 'wire tuck' thread..
Just wanted to compare stock rail placement to C2 rail placement. They look awfully close.
I will get some pictures tomorrow of my C2 manifold and rail angle/position.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

Chris at C2 says that there flange works with the oem rail, you run into problems when you use aftermarket rails.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Chris at C2 says that there flange works with the oem rail, you run into problems when you use aftermarket rails.


Ya I know the oem works, but not for me  Im leaning toward e85 so a return system is needed plus larger injectors which may make the problem worse. I guess I should build the manifold as "low pro" as I can get it and get a phenolic spacer. Im already gonna be tight on room with the Mishimoto radiator, and I may have to use FAL fans, which are a bitch to rewire


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

The injectors on the aftermarket manifolds are significantly closer to the head flange, and angled "up" at a steeper angle. With the OE manifold, the rail misses the cam sensor plug to the outside- it could go "up" with longer injectors etc, no problem. With the aftermarket manifolds, the rail literally has to be partially underneath that clip. The rail outlet is also about an inch or more closer to the VVT solenoid on the other end- it's very close. The aftermarket manifold(s) put the injectors so close to the head that they can't even all be properly oriented because the injector connectors are literally touching. 

Our rail will work with those manifolds with a large chamfer right under that plug and short injectors like the stock ones, 550's, etc. It's just not ideal in general, as the return line is also really damn close to that VVT solenoid. On the stock manifold there is plenty of room, on the aftermarket ones you are hating life. I do not believe the different injector placement / angle on those manifolds is hurting power at all, just to be clear.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

So when can order the ca*s?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Is a solution to the injector placement putting them higher on the runners? Or using curved runners like the c2?

Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using Tapatalk


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Is a solution to the injector placement putting them higher on the runners? Or using curved runners like the c2?
> 
> Sent from my HTC ThunderBolt using Tapatalk


Sure if you use a flat plate flange, and weld on bungs a little further up the runners. But UM and 
C2 have built in cnc'd bungs. A fix would be a phenolic spacer and cut off the dip stick tab on the front of the plenum. Im not sure a phenolic spacer will help my situation because with the eaton in front of the fans, not sure I have the extra room. I may just have to modify the oem rail if Pete decides the chamfer isnt worth it


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Sure if you use a flat plate flange, and weld on bungs a little further up the runners. But UM and
> C2 have built in cnc'd bungs. A fix would be a phenolic spacer and cut off the dip stick tab on the front of the plenum. Im not sure a phenolic spacer will help my situation because with the eaton in front of the fans, not sure I have the extra room. I may just have to modify the oem rail if Pete decides the chamfer isnt worth it



If you do a similar design to my s/c plenum you should have room for a spacer. When I mocked it up the s/c was still about a half inch from the dip stick.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Took a big step towards getting the 2.5L on the engine dyno. From design to fabrication, our one-off IE motor mount bracket is finished. 

Started with a big chunk of aluminum:


















In the mill: 


















And ended with a big chunk of aluminum:


















That was a test fit, we still need to turn some spacers and finish the hardware to install it before its ready to mount to the dyno. Sure does beat welding random bits of metal together to make mounts.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Bit of a teaser today guys... The guys at the shop pulled together today and stayed late to work on this. We got the 1.8t off the dyno and mostly moth-balled. Then we got the billet mount and stuff on the 2.5- and got it on the engine dyno's cart. Our dyno bellhousing from the 1.8t is an a4 1.8t style- that lined up perfectly to the 2.5L, but the starter took a LOT of massaging (goes "forward" on the 1.8t- hit the block, among other things)... Anyways, we got that done too, had a beer and went home. 

I also sorted out the coolant system- our dyno obviously uses a very abbreviated system with no heater etc- no thermostat (it's external). Wasn't too bad- used a couple of our VW coolant adapter bungs to adapt or convert a couple of the holes- a few pipe thread plugs- good to go  

We're ready to put a flywheel on this thing and couple it up to the dyno, then we will start hooking up the exhaust, cooling, throttle etc as well as wiring. I was going to use the stock throttle body but it is the same exact size as the mooostang one we've been running- so I think we're just going to use that. It's a hell of a lot easier to setup. 

This is actually moving along faster then I expected- I planned for a fight with the bellhousing / starter / flywheel. Not that it wasn't. :laugh:

Tyler will update with photos of all of this tomorrow or maybe monday- those guys are bogged down trying to get our new website online.


**Edit with terrible cell phone pics- can't find the damn memory card for the SLR, so I'll have the guys re-do these for you in a few days. **

Here's the engine all mounted up on the stand: 










Bellhousing and starter adapted: 










Bet you don't want to see your 2.5L wiring looking like this! 










^ We are repinning the factory harness onto the Vi-pec. It was in really good shape and this will save us some time and money. 










Harness all sorted and labeled. I have connectors and pins etc coming in next week so the wiring will continue. We also will assault dave's Rabbit with an oscilloscope and measure the VVT solenoid PWM frequencies, crank & cam trigger signal phasing, etc. 










This is the ECU we are using- this one does dual VVT, e-throttle, full flex fuel control, egt corrections on whatever you want, traction control, boost by gear, etc- They aren't too bad at under $2500- however if you don't mind loosing the E-throttle there is also the same ECU in a "Link" brand for under $1600.  Doing one of those on a customer's Bonneville salts racer build right now. 

Anyways, we'll have more plumbing and wiring related updates next week. Also, don't forget to sign up for our piston and rod give away contest on our facebook. HERE! :thumbup::beer:


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Looking really good! What I would do to have access to things like this! Very promising! Now sort out my stupid AC lol


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

So, a fair bit of work yields a small update. I spent all day today wiring the OEM harness to the Vipec connectors, as well as wiring up a few relay sockets etc- there is no chassis wiring to power things off of in this case. Anyways, it's all done, and the final look is- well, an OEM harness with a Vipec on the end  

The EVAP wiring I wired up to an Aux output just in case, and the SAI wiring will eventually be hooked up to a boost control valve. 










Now we are waiting for a pilot bearing to show up. With any luck an A4 1.8t one will fit the 2.5L crank- otherwise I will have to make a bushing on the lathe. We also need to get Dave's 2.5L in here and scope out the crank / cam triggers and the VVT, for configuring the Vipec. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

One more update today- we are closed but I couldn't stay away from the shop haha. :laugh:











Thanks to the guys for staying late on Wednesday to get this bolted up to the dyno and leveled, etc. 










Today I hooked up the coolant lines, installed the wiring harness and spent some time evaluating what we need to do next. There is no freakin place to get good MAP signals off this thing, so we'll have to solve that. 










Billet fuel rail and wiring all situated- just need an adapter for the back of the rail to hook up the return to the regulator and we'll be all plumbed up here. Piece of cake. 

Happy Holidays guys ! :beer::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

PS: Looks like I will be wiring up the stock throttle body to the Vi-Pec after all, so that should make for a few interesting posts  Stay tuned on that one too. :thumbup:


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

Awesome work guys I'm excited for the upcoming action and parts that will come out from it.

Also, I entered into your contest for the rods - hope a 5 cyl won't be discriminated against


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

pennsydubbin said:


> Awesome work guys I'm excited for the upcoming action and parts that will come out from it.
> 
> Also, I entered into your contest for the rods - hope a 5 cyl won't be discriminated against


They will give you four and you will have to buy the fifth 


I didnt enter because I didnt see 2.5 on the list


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

I'd happily buy the extra rod if the pick me.


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

Good to see a true engine dyno. I grew up helping my grandfather play with his. When are 2.5 cams coming


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The box we are going to use is the new AEM ECU- not their old "EMS". We are just actually signing up to be an AEM WD right now because of this awesome new ecu. It can handle anything you throw at it- cam timing (qaud), dual drive by wire, even direct injection.
> 
> Being direct with them we will work with them to figure it out and more then likely have a package available with harness & basemaps. Between the engine dyno, tons of datalogging and a 'scope, we have the resources to get it done. :beer:
> 
> ...


Poking my head back in here to try to get some more info on the new ECU... Actual name, part number, is it commercially availible. I do some contract work for an AEM electronics dealer and while I'll probably wait for a base map and harness from you guys I'd like to be familiarizing myself as much as I can. If you could kick me a users manual pdf and a link for the new tuning software provided it isn't covered by the prior tuning suites I would be hugely thankful.

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We are still using the Vi-pec / link ecu's because they can do everything the AEM does, and I had no reason to switch. They have been extremely reliable for us so far. 

The AEM I was all excited about because it "does" FSI but when you talk to their tech guys it can't drive it internally and it's all totally untested and basically not supported yet. 


Anyways, did some work today: 










^Digital scope hooked up, measuring the cam / crank / vvt / throttle body frequencies and wave forms. 










^Forklift = mobile work bench. :laugh:










Here you can just barely see the cam / crank waveforms plotted together. It's hard to photograph the laptop screen. We should have this sucker figured out here shortly. I need to tear apart my harness and change it around to wire up the e-throttle because that was a last minute decision.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> We should have this sucker figured out here shortly.


If you tilt the laptop a little more towards the camera you get a cleaner picture. There. I just figured out the hard part for you :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Nah, we played with it a little bit- it didn't want to go. Plus, there's a little bit of "only want so good of a picture" going on there as we don't really need anybody lifting our hard work right off the interwebs. :laugh: :thumbup:


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> ^Forklift = mobile work bench. :laugh:


is that the new "hot" air intake :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

That + exhaust leak = EGR. 

Haha, no that's just called dave being lazy. He took the cover off because we put the fuel rail on and was too lazy to order an intake. Then he was also too lazy to put the cover back on, resulting in exhaust manifold cone filter mod. :laugh:

He has a winter beater anyways so the car is basically sitting- which is why I had the chance to go all dr. Frankenstein on it's electronics today.


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## Max_O (Dec 23, 2003)

Man, you guys are doing amazing things for the 2.5L.....I have already thought of spending a few $k's on pending products you have coming. Most looking forward to cams and a shiny new valve cover :thumbup::beer:


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

Ah crap looks like I'll be turning my interest back to putting mine on Haltech Platinum Sport 2000 then

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

If you aren't going to keep it drive by wire then why not do the Link extreme? Then I can get you a base map with everything setup etc... They are pretty reasonable... The V88 has a pretty hefty premium for the e-throttle which IMO is justified since it's a pain in the ass.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Sorry for the *total* lack of updates on this guys. I got a little busy working on some other projects and this got pretty much shoved on the back burner. 

We got the stock throttle body working on the Vi-Pec- it actually works quite well. I'll have the guys shoot a quick video of that this week. We are getting very close to getting this thing fired up on the dyno now with that hurdle crossed. We need to hook up the exhaust and do some housekeeping on some smaller items, and we'll be in business. 

We are very excited to start testing some power parts  I promise guys the updates will flow again starting soon. :thumbup:


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Very nice! good work guys!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

So, I promised an update, and here it is... 










We officially have the 2.5L on our dyno, and running on Vi-pec standalone. We got it fired up late last night, and spent some of today cleaning up the mess. A few tweaks and a couple missing OEM bits and we'll be ready to start doing pulls. We have the OE Drive by wire working already, the VVT will be next once we start doing some tuning. We will be sure to build out a nice index of base maps as we go for anyone who wants to follow in our footsteps. 

Really excited to start testing a few products- big and small. I'll have the guys make a little video for you in the next day or two. :thumbup:


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> So, I promised an update, and here it is...


:thumbup:

is that exhaust pipe 2.50" or 3"?


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Sweeeet :thumbup::thumbup: Let me know if I can provide support in any way, I appreciate what you guys are doing


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

Thats awesome Pete! Keep up the work on the 2.5's! We appreciate it :thumbup:


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

Sub'd :thumbup::beer:


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## spartanrabbit09 (Feb 10, 2010)

:thumbup:


MK5CNY said:


> Sub'd :thumbup::beer:


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

When you get everything sorted out, what are the possibilities of this being marketable? Will you start doing stand alone tunes? Just wondering.


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

itskohler said:


> When you get everything sorted out, what are the possibilities of this being marketable? Will you start doing stand alone tunes? Just wondering.


we need anti lag boosted 2.5l on vipec


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## nunumkv (Jul 5, 2010)

oh my cant wait. Want that fuel rail!


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Definitely need it if you get a SRI. 

How was the cookout Omar? I wanted to go so bad!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Vipec anti-lag...






18psi...


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Nice.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Little update on this: The junkyard motor we bought, which allegedly had 40k miles on it- has zero compression on cylinder #1. I'll post some pics of the tear down and resulting OE rebuild- we want to leave it stock for now and build up from there.


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

sub'd :thumbup: Love what I see thus far!


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## killa rabbit (Aug 13, 2010)

keep it up looking good :thumbup: opcorn:


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

This thing sounds good! :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Good news guys, after a few snags the motor has perfect compression and is up and running like a champ! We put together a little teaser video of a baseline pull for you. Now we can start development of new parts and start making some power.


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)




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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Cannot wait to see the end results, you guys rock!


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## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

Very cool. what do you have for exhaust on video it's very loud, is it just like a straight pipe and 1 muffler?

So did the engine dyno 170hp exactly like VW claims?


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Our dyno has 2 x 4 foot long, 5" mufflers and a 5" stack out the building. Before that, we had a 3" straight through magnaflow, about 3 feet long. That stuff is all left overs from our previous testing of 800+ bhp turbo engines, they don't want any backpressure. 

Currently, we're just messing around trying to get the VVT working. It made 170bhp / 195 ft-lb with out much drama, but didn't want to go a whole lot past there. We are going to play with the backpressure next, I intend to dream up some sort of mechanism where it can be adjusted- short of changing mufflers / pipe sizes. 

Top end power is really, really bad- I'm excited to rectify that, it'll make it a lot easier to setup the dyno as well. You tell just from the exhaust note that it's got nothing up top. 

I've got a few prototype parts that should wake it up significantly  :thumbup:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Wouldn't a simple butterfly valve serve your purpose in adjusting the back pressure?


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Wouldn't a simple butterfly valve serve your purpose in adjusting the back pressure?


 But then how would that show who is right, 2.5" making more power than 3". hahaha 


This is awesome. I cant wait to see what all you guys do with this. 

:thumbup::thumbup::heart:


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## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

mldouthi said:


> But then how would that show who is right, 2.5" making more power than 3". hahaha


 :laugh:


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

DerekH said:


> Wouldn't a simple butterfly valve serve your purpose in adjusting the back pressure?


 Most butterfly valves will need better (Viton) seals (or remove them if you don't need full shutoff) if going over 400°F 

I had the best performance out of this manufacturer, 300:1 turn down. 
http://www.valvesolutions.com/pdf/Series2000.pdf 
http://www.valvesolutions.com/pdf/SeriesV.pdf 

Would be a good idea to get the back pressure readings across the valve while you're at it.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We don't need anything nearly that complicated because it never needs to seal. Think more along the lines of a throttle body.


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## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

Any updates?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Yep- we are up and running now- testing parts. I'll post a video or two this week hopefully. It's already picked up a good 40 horse or so, still on the factory exhaust manifold etc. We will be working on tuning runner lengths and such for a while now trying to get the optimum balance of torque / driveabilty and top end power. 

Now we are working on solving the belt issues- first pull we did to 8k kicked the outer belt. We do not like to remove dampers so the solution we come up with will maintain the factory damper.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yep- we are up and running now- testing parts. I'll post a video or two this week hopefully. It's already picked up a good 40 horse or so, still on the factory exhaust manifold etc. We will be working on tuning runner lengths and such for a while now trying to get the optimum balance of torque / driveabilty and top end power.
> 
> Now we are working on solving the belt issues- first pull we did to 8k kicked the outer belt. We do not like to remove dampers so the solution we come up with will maintain the factory damper.


 
40hp is an impressive gain, So that is just in a tune? 

Looking forward to the videos!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Nope, the tune we didn't get much- about 10hp and a decent amount of torque. Go figure- those chip tuners aren't holding out on you guys...  

We are also on crappy 91 octane up here, so we can't get as aggressive with the timing as 93 octane files. The 40hp was on top of that- an intake manifold. Still tons of work to do there though. First we need the belts to stay on the damn thing. :laugh:


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## WOB-SH573 (Apr 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Yep- we are up and running now- testing parts. I'll post a video or two this week hopefully. It's already picked up a good 40 horse or so, still on the factory exhaust manifold etc. We will be working on tuning runner lengths and such for a while now trying to get the optimum balance of torque / driveabilty and top end power.
> 
> Now we are working on solving the belt issues- first pull we did to 8k kicked the outer belt. We do not like to remove dampers so the solution we come up with will maintain the factory damper.


 I'll be following your progress closely, really looking forward to putting the 2.5 in my track car!


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Nope, the tune we didn't get much- about 10hp and a decent amount of torque. Go figure- those chip tuners aren't holding out on you guys...
> 
> We are also on crappy 91 octane up here, so we can't get as aggressive with the timing as 93 octane files. The 40hp was on top of that- an intake manifold. Still tons of work to do there though. First we need the belts to stay on the damn thing. :laugh:


 
Ahh, 

I wonder what is up with the belts. I think BW was getting up in that rpm range without problems, well that they mentioned


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

mldouthi said:


> Ahh,
> 
> I wonder what is up with the belts. I think BW was getting up in that rpm range without problems, well that they mentioned


 Pretty sure they are running an under drive pulley.


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## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

Man it'd be cool if you guys find a tune or right parts to allow reving to 8k rpm wether it would need bigger injectors or not. Man reving that high and still producing power is amazing and our engines would sound great


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

DerekH said:


> Pretty sure they are running an under drive pulley.


 Yep- while I could easily manufacture those- we are looking for a proper fix. Typically what we do on race engines is run a proper damper on the crank and underdrive anything we want underdriven at the accessory instead. In addition to deleting the damper, in this case you are also underdriving the water pump- which is not a good thing. 

We are still running the basically open exhaust too- it'll be interesting to see if it picks up anything with some backpressure. Tons of work to do from here.... :thumbup:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Yep- while I could easily manufacture those- we are looking for a proper fix. Typically what we do on race engines is run a proper damper on the crank and underdrive anything we want underdriven at the accessory instead. In addition to deleting the damper, in this case you are also underdriving the water pump- which is not a good thing.
> 
> We are still running the basically open exhaust too- it'll be interesting to see if it picks up anything with some backpressure. Tons of work to do from here.... :thumbup:


 Agreed, a far less than ideal solution, but a solution none the less. Looking forward to seeing the way you deal with the issue. You guys have a great group of creative thinkers, so it aught be good.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

why not manufacture an ac delete with a larger stepped lip that holds it in it's channel??? 

or somehow find a place mount up another tensioner that isn't spring operated? something like a threaded rod that forces more pressure... 

and as far as the water pump with the underdrive? that is the ONLY reason i've never purchased one. i have always worried about that. and the issue with the alternator being underdriven... that could potentially cause a battery to lose life quicker than if it were getting the correct amount of juice


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We're talking about doing an AC delete- but the problem with the outer belt is the tensioner, not really the lack of flanges on the pulleys. There is a harmonic issue with the tensioner that starts right at about 7800- it goes from completely stable to bouncing around like mad. 

Looking for a fix right now, I would like to keep it self adjusting / tensioning but we'll have to see. The OE tensioners are not that easy to build as they are basically a clock spring, wound up in a special fixture and welded in place. 

We'll get it figured out and move along.


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

when are you guys going to tease us with some vids or dyno sheets :laugh:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

pennsydubbin said:


> when are you guys going to tease us with some vids or dyno sheets :laugh:


 or not tease us with parts  

Like the ones you didnt want to share the cam info for  





Oh and what are those red things you posted on facebook??? For and 2.5L? :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Those are runner extensions for a modular development mule intake manifold... The production piece will be one piece of course. 

We have peak power at 7500 right now, just tweaking the powerband and of course trying to fine tune it in some more. 

I have some really cool stuff coming in the next day or two and I expect within a month or two to have that thing well over 250 bhp all motor on stock ports and bottom end. 

Another thing that's becoming clear is that no header that hooks up to the stock downpipe or anywhere near it is going to do a damn thing.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Those are runner extensions for a modular development mule intake manifold... The production piece will be one piece of course.
> 
> We have peak power at 7500 right now, just tweaking the powerband and of course trying to fine tune it in some more.
> 
> ...


 opcorn:opcorn: 


So REALLY LONG tube headers.  I dont mind a little modification. 


I cant wait to see what you guys come up with.:thumbup:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

What about adding a ratchet type mechanism to the tensioner so it will still automatically self tension but cant bounce? 

Pretty stoked to see the new gear!


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Been running this thing hard guys! Testing parts, looking for weak points, making it pretty, etc... 
Took some photos so you can see what we have been working on daily for all you 2.5L guys. 


















































































This is a great sounding engine! :thumbup:


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

I like how the main belt is missing in the last pic.  


:beer:


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

looks like you got a nice intake manifold on there. how about a shot of that thing  

Also, what is that oil line coming from?


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

Are those twin 54 or 60mm cis fuel pumps ?.. Kinda reminiscent of the vw motorsport rallye car fuel tanks.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Twin bosch 044's... For when the big guns are needed haha. We don't run E85 so you're talking 1500+ crank on that setup. 

Ya, the outer belt is pulley-challenged. Hahaha. Definitely shift it at 7500 if you enjoy all those luxuries like- water pumps. 

The intake manifold will appear more as it gets more hashed out  Right now it's running black ops style.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Any chance you can give us an idea of what a 250hp all motor build will cost and what parts you will be using?


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Great stuff guys! :thumbup: 
I'll need some bits for the 2.5T project pretty soon..


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

DerekH said:


> Any chance you can give us an idea of what a 250hp all motor build will cost and what parts you will be using?


 X2 Im in love with the idea of running 2.5L NA. Imagine what this could make with a built bottom end and everything! Needless to say, Im stoked.

Sent from my GT-P7500R using Tapatalk 2


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

pennsydubbin said:


> looks like you got a nice intake manifold on there. how about a shot of that thing
> 
> Also, what is that oil line coming from?


 Im guessin its for thier oil pressure gauge but maybe not. Thats where Josh tapped my head for my gauge.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Ya, it just goes to our dyno's datalogger.


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

ok yea I just saw the pic of the gauges - I scrolled past that the first time


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Any updates on the progress? Havent heard anything new on here in quite awhile.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

I know- sorry! We've been slaving away testing intake manifold stuff, and there has been considerable debate about what- if anything- should be made public. In the end we are going to show some stuff. Obviously we are working on a cast 2.5L intake manifold... 

Here's a few pics! 




























Full write up is here, on our blog: 

IE 2.5L 5 Cylinder Engine Dyno Project - Part Dos

I do promise that we have some very interesting stuff coming here soon- we haven't been able to test any other power related stuff while we are doing this as it would invalidate any future comparisons, so it's pretty much on lock. However, let's just say that after this, the cylinder head needs to come apart... To make room for more LIFT. 

I want to test headers as well, does anybody have anything laying around?


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

This looks great. Love to see more development of this platform.


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## IggytheTiggy (Feb 18, 2011)

opcorn::beer: the wait is gonna kill me


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

A big plenum spacer to test what a larger plenum volume will do is in the printer right now... Getting there though- we've been working on this for quite a while as you can tell.


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I know- sorry! We've been slaving away testing intake manifold stuff, Obviously we are working on a cast 2.5L intake manifold.


Wow! an intake manifold that doesn't look like a newspaper mailbox. :thumbup:


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## IggytheTiggy (Feb 18, 2011)

HollisJoy said:


> Wow! an intake manifold that doesn't look like a newspaper mailbox. :thumbup:


its so sexy....me want :thumbup:


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## The*Fall*Guy (Aug 10, 2009)

Subd:beer:


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

in for results and "go fast" parts:thumbup:


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

PM'd!


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Manifold looks awesome! Cast design?

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I do promise that we have some very interesting stuff coming here soon- we haven't been able to test any other power related stuff while we are doing this as it would invalidate any future comparisons, so it's pretty much on lock. However, let's just say that after this, the cylinder head needs to come apart... To make room for more LIFT.


Totaly understandable, pretty sick you guys are making a cast manifold. Didnt think anyone really did that except fot exhaust manis. Never even seen a cast intake mani I dont think. While Im very interested in seeing the final product, Im actually waiting to see some of the other things you guys might be working on not power related (lightweight idlers/pulleys or more engine dress up type things). Hearing about cams tho is just a tease since weve all heard before from other companies they were making them but it never panned out. I have no doubt you guys will deliver tho, THAT I cant wait for!


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Mani looks sweet, depending on how things work out for me in the next week or two i may be able to pull the trigger on one


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## DarkSideGTI (Aug 11, 2001)

So throwing a bread box on some random length runners isn't a good idea?


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## Fendermender (Nov 4, 2011)

Any chance there will be a version that will fit the mkvi jetta with the p/s pump?


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Still up in the air at the moment. However, it's not looking likely. I'd have to bastardize it pretty well to do that.


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## Spartan8 (Aug 4, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Still up in the air at the moment. However, it's not looking likely. I'd have to bastardize it pretty well to do that.


 VW did not make life easy for us MKVI Jetta owners... :thumbdown:


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## Fendermender (Nov 4, 2011)

Spartan8 said:


> VW did not make life easy for us MKVI Jetta owners... :thumbdown:


 Agreed


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Fendermender said:


> Agreed


 
For sure... I was wondering what it would take to put the electric P/S rack into those, to be honest.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> For sure... I was wondering what it would take to put the electric P/S rack into those, to be honest.


 That was My idea for mk6 owners too...should be somewhat simple.

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

tay272 said:


> Totaly understandable, pretty sick you guys are making a cast manifold. Didnt think anyone really did that except fot exhaust manis. Never even seen a cast intake mani I dont think. While Im very interested in seeing the final product, Im actually waiting to see some of the other things you guys might be working on not power related (lightweight idlers/pulleys or more engine dress up type things). Hearing about cams tho is just a tease since weve all heard before from other companies they were making them but it never panned out. I have no doubt you guys will deliver tho, THAT I cant wait for!


 HPA vr6 manis are cast, there are cast clones of those, cast intake manifolds for 1.8t, brothers ms3 has cast intake manifold. I would rather have cast honestly.. Don't have rely on someone else's welds holding up. Just have to make sure the plenum and runners are free from cast spatter that can come of and destroy your head, just like some people have had happen using the HPA clone manifold..


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

95% or more of the world's automotive intake manifolds are cast aluminum... Plastic is a new thing- works well if you are making a zillion of them... Lower production stuff will almost always be cast aluminum though- even the TT-RS went that way.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Guess I shoulda phrased that differently. I havent seen many aftermarket intake manis that were cast. Usually theyre welded together. Ive seen plenty of stock manifolds that are cast tho.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Oh ya- well, the price of admission is a lot higher, and so is the level of engineering / testing / prototyping required to get a decent casting done. However, it lets you build shapes and such that are not possible with welding unless you are talking about welding together very expensive billet parts (3d contouring work, etc). 

Here's the 1.8T one we are releasing in about a week... 










Very excited to be working on the 5 cylinder one... Especially because it does not have to be modular haha- what a pain in the butt that was. :laugh:


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

This is going to be awesome...better heat dissipation too I'd imagine

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Oh ya- well, the price of admission is a lot higher, and so is the level of engineering / testing / prototyping required to get a decent casting done. However, it lets you build shapes and such that are not possible with welding unless you are talking about welding together very expensive billet parts (3d contouring work, etc).
> 
> Here's the 1.8T one we are releasing in about a week...
> 
> ...


 I say make it and release it. I know have to wait and see the price of this before I pull the trigger on the c2 manifold I was getting ready to pickup off my buddy trying to sell his car.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

OMG that manifold is beautiful! 

Please tell me there's a 24v VR one in the works.


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

A+++ thread


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

If you make it. Just make sure your billet fuel rail is compatible without modification


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Also, it looks as though the manifold has the "bend" in it to accommodate factory TB placement, if this actually the case? I'm assuming you guys are planning to make it as simple to install as possible retaining mostly OEM fitment?


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

I am very impressed keep up the great work!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

lessthanalex said:


> Also, it looks as though the manifold has the "bend" in it to accommodate factory TB placement, if this actually the case? I'm assuming you guys are planning to make it as simple to install as possible retaining mostly OEM fitment?


 It's bent towards the OE throttle spot- couldn't get quite all the way there without seriously screwing up the airflow, and we don't want to leave any performance on the table. 

Anybody here going to Wuste? We're going to have some prototype parts at our booth... :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> It's bent towards the OE throttle spot- couldn't get quite all the way there without seriously screwing up the airflow, and we don't want to leave any performance on the table.
> 
> Anybody here going to Wuste? We're going to have some prototype parts at our booth... :thumbup:


 If you want to donate those parts to my car I'll go


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It's bent towards the OE throttle spot- couldn't get quite all the way there without seriously screwing up the airflow, and we don't want to leave any performance on the table.
> 
> Anybody here going to Wuste? We're going to have some prototype parts at our booth... :thumbup:


 Okay, sounds good. What have you been doing for an intake on it? Just a filter connected to the maf and tb? If this is the case, what does the airflow look like compared to a stock CAI type intake?


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

Would you guys sell plastic ones? it would keep the costs down would it not? clearly plastic manifolds are more than strong enough for NA applications, heck even tsi manifolds are plastic..


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## [email protected] (Aug 18, 2011)

Great work guys. :thumbup:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

MaxVW said:


> Would you guys sell plastic ones? it would keep the costs down would it not? clearly plastic manifolds are more than strong enough for NA applications, heck even tsi manifolds are plastic..


 I would probably buy one. The one Unitronic was supposedly gonna make was gonn be made of composite material iirc. Could be wrong tho, don't really care what that company is doing these days ha


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## M3NTAL Kev (Jun 11, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Great work guys. :thumbup:


 +1 

Looks like a very promising product.


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## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

MaxVW said:


> Would you guys sell plastic ones? it would keep the costs down would it not? clearly plastic manifolds are more than strong enough for NA applications, heck even tsi manifolds are plastic..


 Im pretty sure that if the production quantity isnt really high, metal casting is cheaper than plastic. Metal castings can use lost wax/investment, were as with plastic you have to have a tool machined (very expensive, initial cost) to produce. 


I love all the work you guys are doing with this motor. :heart:


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## The*Fall*Guy (Aug 10, 2009)

Nice work! 

IE is definitely progressing this platform :thumbup:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Who are you guys going to use to do the tuning for your mani?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Anybody see the 2.5L prototype manifold at Bluewater's booth? We also had some parts (runners) in our booth... 

Anyways, Derek- the test mule is running on Vi-pec standalone which gives us total freedom to do whatever we need to do, quickly... When we get down to production parts though we will work with one or more popular vendors to have a tune available for it. :thumbup:


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm totally waiting for this to come out before making any more engine purchases.


----------



## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I want to test headers as well, does anybody have anything laying around?


Do you still need a set?


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Anybody see the 2.5L prototype manifold at Bluewater's booth? We also had some parts (runners) in our booth...
> 
> Anyways, Derek- the test mule is running on Vi-pec standalone which gives us total freedom to do whatever we need to do, quickly... When we get down to production parts though we will work with one or more popular vendors to have a tune available for it. :thumbup:


Thanks for the reply Pete, I hope you guys go with C2. Their soon to be released flash loader makes them the only real option for me.

Edit: also, i am running a header (EJ) and wouldn't mind helping you out with whatever i can. However i am like a million miles away from you. So you will have to send me the manifold for testing


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Any news on when this bad boy is going to be released?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

It'll be a while yet- it's a long road from where we are now, through tooling and pre-production, test fitting, and finally production... :thumbup:


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Patiently waiting...:thumbup:


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Impatiently waiting. lol. 

Can you give a loose estimate of a release date? I want to make sure i have the money for it when it happens.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

If you guys are interested in intake manifold tech, you may find this article interesting. It compares 3 styles of inlets- a simple radius, an optimized bellmouth, and a raised, optimized bellmouth. Complete with CFD results and even a video to help illustrate how the raised ones work... 

Don't miss out! 

http://www.intengineering.com/intblog/archives/693 

:thumbup:


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> If you guys are interested in intake manifold tech, you may find this article interesting. It compares 3 styles of inlets- a simple radius, an optimized bellmouth, and a raised, optimized bellmouth. Complete with CFD results and even a video to help illustrate how the raised ones work...
> 
> Don't miss out!
> 
> ...


 
Great info. :thumbup::thumbup: 


Mmmm, Solidworks


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

nice tech article :beer::beer:


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:just read the article and have to say i'm very impressed. I appreciate the information. it's really neat to see the flow in the video.  

one thing i was actually going to ask you guys, was this.... 

Could you possibly make a manifold similar to your "modular" 1.8t set up that allows the final buyer to flip to allow the throttle body be installed on either side of the motor... 

the reason i ask is because i've been really considering the idea of flipping the throttle body to accomodate an easier front mount intercooler piping path... coming from the lower side through the trans to the driver side headlight across through passenger headlight to inlet at the throttle body... it would probably be a little tough over there due to the belts and motor mount, but it was an idea. 

overall i think i've found my next big purchase... YOUR SRI with true bellmouth design! be sure to measure for your fuel rail and the addition of a phenolic intake manifold spacer too please!!!:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

Tyler, don't say big purchase cause I'm hoping they aren't even close to what the market has out now (cross fingers)
But yes, I'm waiting on this manifold over any other company. 

Will the Manifold come in integrated Red?


----------



## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Impatiently waiting. lol.
> 
> Can you give a loose estimate of a release date? I want to make sure i have the money for it when it happens.


 Fall to winter of 2012, from what I read earlier.


----------



## Blitzkrieg'nBunny (Feb 11, 2007)

chadone said:


> Fall to winter of 2012, from what I read earlier.


 I can't wait that long! I was just about to pull the trigger on another SRI...must distract myself...exterior and interior must concentrate on that...


----------



## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

Blitzkrieg'nBunny said:


> I can't wait that long! I was just about to pull the trigger on another SRI...must distract myself...exterior and interior must concentrate on that...


 I finished all that....lol I started doing mounts in the engine to keep myself busy. Then I'm cut off! Last thing for this car is an SRI.


----------



## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Any ideas on 2012 Beetle fitment?


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Aonarch said:


> Any ideas on 2012 Beetle fitment?


 Should. Does the new beetle have a ps pump? Or is it electric steering like the mkv?


----------



## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Should. Does the new beetle have a ps pump? Or is it electric steering like the mkv?


 PS. :thumbup: :thumbdown: 

Still not sure which I like better.


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I think electric is Nice because its cleaner.but you can't feel the road as much as you can with hydro p/s 

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TylerO28 said:


> I think electric is Nice because its cleaner.but you can't feel the road as much as you can with hydro p/s
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


 Yes I like it for its stealth like presence! No pump, lines, or fluid.


----------



## killa rabbit (Aug 13, 2010)

Do you guys know the price range of this bad boy? opcorn:


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I was told a number by Pete himself, but after crunching numbers of the investment vs amount of manifolds potentially sold, it should be more affordable than the others but I'll let him say his price

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

TylerO28 said:


> I was told a number by Pete himself, but after crunching numbers of the investment vs amount of manifolds potentially sold, it should be more affordable than the others but I'll let him say his price
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


 Tease. :laugh:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I'm going with his manifold regardless. Hopefully make their fuel rail 100% compatible with it.


----------



## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> The one Unitronic was supposedly gonna make was gonn be made of composite material iirc. Could be wrong tho, don't really care what that company is doing these days ha


 I saw the Unitronics 4motion bunny at Eurokracy this past week. They had a different intake mani than years past. It looked like complete and utter sh!te, it was a composite of some sort and almost looked like it was made by hand lol. I wouldnt be expecting any sort of quality product to come from them for the 2.5. Afterall, their BT 4mo bunny has been a trailer queen for what, 3-4 years? :facepalm:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

GTACanuck said:


> I saw the Unitronics 4motion bunny at Eurokracy this past week. They had a different intake mani than years past. It looked like complete and utter sh!te, it was a composite of some sort and almost looked like it was made by hand lol. I wouldnt be expecting any sort of quality product to come from them for the 2.5. Afterall, their BT 4mo bunny has been a trailer queen for what, 3-4 years? :facepalm:


 Yes and I heard it broke doing a pull. Not sure if true. I wouldn't mind a composite manifold, but the quality has to be there. And they are just as expensive to make as the hep and c2, so would cost the same.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

as you know, i'm not with Unitronic any more, but i'm still friends with some people there. 

last week i was shown a video of a race... 4mo Bunny vs the "battleship" .:R32 and a third car i dont remember. 

anyways, the rabbit won. it runs, and runs good. 

it WAS a trailer queen (1 year).. i'm only posting this to correct the record. no point on spreading lies. As for their intake manis, i have absolutely no clue...


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> as you know, i'm not with Unitronic any more, but i'm still friends with some people there.
> 
> last week i was shown a video of a race... 4mo Bunny vs the "battleship" .:R32 and a third car i dont remember.
> 
> ...


 Uni is a joke :thumbup: to me anyway. The new Giac.


----------



## Bahltech (Oct 10, 2008)

GIAC FTW


www.bahltech.com


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Bahltech said:


> GIAC FTW
> 
> 
> www.bahltech.com


 Ok buddy.. Maybe back in 1995... C2 and UM run the show. With Eurodyne and APR at the top as well. GIAC is funny. Around the Florida area all the little kids ask about GIAC because that's all they can get.


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ok buddy.. Maybe back in 1995... C2 and UM run the show. With Eurodyne and APR at the top as well. GIAC is funny. Around the Florida area all the little kids ask about GIAC because that's all they can get.


 Jeff Atwood :thumbup: He's been at the front of great VW chip tuning for a long time.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ok buddy.. Maybe back in 1995... C2 and UM run the show. With Eurodyne and APR at the top as well. GIAC is funny. Around the Florida area all the little kids ask about GIAC because that's all they can get.


 1)you are not from florida, dont pretend to know. 
2)please, stop trolling. at this point it isnt even funny. 



magics5rip said:


> Jeff Atwood :thumbup: He's been at the front of great VW chip tuning for a long time.


 i agree on 100%. i dont even dispute the fact! i :heart: everything jeff does!  

i was just setting the record straight on unitronic.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> 1)you are not from florida, dont pretend to know.
> 2)please, stop trolling. at this point it isnt even funny.
> 
> 
> ...


 My brother is stationed in Pensacola and I was just down there for 4 days met a lot of dubbers big guy.. Lots of his buddies are into VW and all they talked about was GIAC for their 1.8ts and such. I told them UNI for oem turbo flashes Lugtronic for big turbo madness.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I don't dislike Unitronic. I dislike who did the flash. They were doing something wrong and the tune would erase itself. I'm on my new tune done by someone else and zero problems. I was satisfied with the Uni tune when it was there. I still recommend it, the stage flashes, there BT tunes are meh compared to what else is out there, but I did hear months ago that something on that Rabbit broke doing a launch. 

I love you Fred


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> ... but I did hear months ago that something on that Rabbit broke doing a launch.
> 
> I love you Fred


 how should i call you, "kevin"? 

as per the rabbit.. i dunno if anyone broke anything. i know the car runs, and its been running for a while now. Before i left.


----------



## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> as you know, i'm not with Unitronic any more, but i'm still friends with some people there.
> 
> last week i was shown a video of a race... 4mo Bunny vs the "battleship" .:R32 and a third car i dont remember.
> 
> ...


 Got a link to the video Fred? 

I have seen it do a pull in a parking lot (probably unitronics) and it sounded amazing

I should have taken a pic of that Mani but my phone was dead. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> how should i call you, "kevin"?
> 
> as per the rabbit.. i dunno if anyone broke anything. i know the car runs, and its been running for a while now. Before i left.


 Tbh I'm surprised they still have it. I have not heard anything about it in almost a year. I figured it was scrapped for a ttrs like so many others are doing.


----------



## nunumkv (Jul 5, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ok buddy.. Maybe back in 1995... C2 and UM run the show. With Eurodyne and APR at the top as well. GIAC is funny. Around the Florida area all the little kids ask about GIAC because that's all they can get.


 LMFAO!!! :facepalm: 
you have no idea


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nunumkv said:


> LMFAO!!! :facepalm:
> you have no idea


 I'm not speaking for all of Florida just Pensacola. The afb had tons of kids around 19-23yo with mk3-mk6 they have big gtg around there and I had mine down there and seemed like the majority just talked about GIAC, and how the local shop only deals GIAC and such. I recommended anything bit GIAC. Lol 

It's not a big mix of cars down there. It's either srt4, EVO, STI, or VWs that's it. Few Hondas here and there but not much else


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Back on topic please!
Hey Pete! Great talking with you at water werks last Sunday! You guys all seem really great down to earth (stupid knowledgeable) friendly guys! I appreciate my 5 cylinder key chain too.
Looking forward to your big plans this year...
lemme see whats on your desk now!

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

In for intake manifold updates. All I care about at the moment.


----------



## chadone (Apr 26, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> In for intake manifold updates. All I care about at the moment.


opcorn:


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

My local shop just became an integrated dealer...so friggin stoked!

Sent from my GT-P7500R using Tapatalk 2


----------



## JohnnyDrama (Feb 15, 2012)

GTACanuck said:


> I saw the Unitronics 4motion bunny at Eurokracy this past week. They had a different intake mani than years past. It looked like complete and utter sh!te, it was a composite of some sort and almost looked like it was made by hand lol. I wouldnt be expecting any sort of quality product to come from them for the 2.5. Afterall, their BT 4mo bunny has been a trailer queen for what, 3-4 years? :facepalm:


Actually, it was the same rapid prototype intake manifold that was on the car in years past, however, it was coated in a material that made it useable (and would be able to endure 30 PSI). 

The final product will be cast.



thygreyt said:


> as you know, i'm not with Unitronic any more, but i'm still friends with some people there.
> 
> last week i was shown a video of a race... 4mo Bunny vs the "battleship" .:R32 and a third car i dont remember.
> 
> ...


It runs great! And feels like a bat out of hell @ 20 PSI. Pulled ~1 car on Unitronic's 530HP R32. Can't wait for 30 within the coming week! The car makes 53X (534 iirc) @ 22 PSI, so 30 should produce some great results.


----------



## JohnnyDrama (Feb 15, 2012)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I don't dislike Unitronic. I dislike who did the flash. They were doing something wrong and the tune would erase itself.


Is this guy serious? Do you know that something like that isn't possible with the way Unitronic software is written to the ECU, right? 

Tell us...what would happen when the software would "magically erase itself"? It would revert back to the stock programming? :laugh::laugh: :banghead::banghead:


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

JohnnyDrama said:


> Is this guy serious? Do you know that something like that isn't possible with the way Unitronic software is written to the ECU, right?
> 
> Tell us...what would happen when the software would "magically erase itself"? It would revert back to the stock programming? :laugh::laugh: :banghead::banghead:


Don't pay attention to him, he's special.


----------



## Blitzkrieg'nBunny (Feb 11, 2007)

can we get back to talking about the manifold? anyone know anything more?


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

JohnnyDrama said:


> Is this guy serious? Do you know that something like that isn't possible with the way Unitronic software is written to the ECU, right?
> 
> Tell us...what would happen when the software would "magically erase itself"? It would revert back to the stock programming? :laugh::laugh: :banghead::banghead:


Yes exactly. I had the Uni on one ecu and UM on another. Um is perfect, on the Uni ecu I kept having to have the shop reflash the ecu( 3 times since initial flash), why I have no idea so I bought a second ecu with UM software on it and its fine, it wasn't Unitronics fault its the shop, they could have been flashing trial software on it for all I know, actually I don't even think they are Uni dealers anymore. Strictly APR 

They don't let people stay to watch the process so I don't know if the ecu was opened and grounded once or all 3 times, no idea moved on.

I finally let everything go, Eurojets ignorance, whatever was wrong with that ecu, the dude who sold me bent up wheels, whatever I'm past it :thumbup:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

JohnnyDrama said:


> Actually, it was the same rapid prototype intake manifold that was on the car in years past, however, it was coated in a material that made it useable (and would be able to endure 30 PSI).
> 
> The final product will be cast.
> 
> ...


Ya it looks to be the same one. 

Good to hear it is running.


----------



## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> My brother is stationed in Pensacola and I was just down there for 4 days met a lot of dubbers big guy.. Lots of his buddies are into VW and all they talked about was GIAC for their 1.8ts and such. I told them UNI for oem turbo flashes Lugtronic for big turbo madness.




The only local VW tuner around here really is GIAC. I'm an hour from Pensacola, so it's probably the same one your brother and his friends were talking about.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

cbs_24 said:


> The only local VW tuner around here really is GIAC. I'm an hour from Pensacola, so it's probably the same one your brother and his friends were talking about.


Ya has to be. They meet up at Buffalo Wild Wings to hang out as a flight crew or something like that. Good guys but Floridians can't drive for ish! Lol almost got taken out 4 times that whole week. First question I was asked was "do you have GIAC?" I lold and said heck no.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Pete, any word on if you will be making a lightweight full pulley replacement?


----------



## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya has to be. They meet up at Buffalo Wild Wings to hang out as a flight crew or something like that. Good guys but Floridians can't drive for ish! Lol almost got taken out 4 times that whole week. First question I was asked was "do you have GIAC?" I lold and said heck no.



Pretty much everyone in the area is transplanted here because of the military. Can't really blame Florida for that :laugh:

I asked the guys from the local shop if they would ever consider becoming a dealer for c2 or UM and they told me they didn't want to damage their relationship with giac. I'm just going to have to send my ecu to get it flashed i guess.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

cbs_24 said:


> Pretty much everyone in the area is transplanted here because of the military. Can't really blame Florida for that :laugh:
> 
> I asked the guys from the local shop if they would ever consider becoming a dealer for c2 or UM and they told me they didn't want to damage their relationship with giac. I'm just going to have to send my ecu to get it flashed i guess.


Ya I said ship em out to get flashed. But reality is most of those kids use their cars as dd and don't have a week to wait around for their ecu. Attain a business license and become a dealer. Lol


----------



## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya I said ship em out to get flashed. But reality is most of those kids use their cars as dd and don't have a week to wait around for their ecu. Attain a business license and become a dealer. Lol



Mine is my daily as well, but I could always carpool with my wife for a few days. I used to have a business license when I did tile installation, I wonder whats involved in becoming a dealer?


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

performance LED is a delaer for UM, in gainesville.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> performance LED is a delaer for UM, in gainesville.


See man. You may know of little shops here and there with other options but a lot of the Pensacola area VW scene think Giac is their only option. Why I made the Giac comment :thumbup: 

Anyway back to I.E

You guys should make us a aluminum radiator. 

The Mishimoto 08 R32 one works, but the manufacturing quality is very inconsistent. The first one I ordered the bungs were too big, they sent a new one bungs were fine but it was too tall, jade to modify the core support. I ordered another one we'll see how that one fits.


----------



## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

Gainesville is 5 hours from Pensacola. Atlanta is also an option, but they're both a pretty serious drive.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

cbs_24 said:


> Gainesville is 5 hours from Pensacola. Atlanta is also an option, but they're both a pretty serious drive.


either that, or you can talk to UM directly and you could borrow the loaner cable.


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> either that, or you can talk to UM directly and you could borrow the loaner cable.


This is where that C2uner device will shine.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

B. Eff you.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> B. Eff you.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


:sly:


----------



## JohnnyDrama (Feb 15, 2012)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Yes exactly. I had the Uni on one ecu and UM on another. Um is perfect, on the Uni ecu I kept having to have the shop reflash the ecu( 3 times since initial flash), why I have no idea so I bought a second ecu with UM software on it and its fine, it wasn't Unitronics fault its the shop, they could have been flashing trial software on it for all I know, actually I don't even think they are Uni dealers anymore. Strictly APR
> 
> They don't let people stay to watch the process so I don't know if the ecu was opened and grounded once or all 3 times, no idea moved on.
> 
> I finally let everything go, Eurojets ignorance, whatever was wrong with that ecu, the dude who sold me bent up wheels, whatever I'm past it :thumbup:


Unitronic does not offer trial software, so that's out of the question. What shop are you referring to? I don't blame them for not letting you watch. Why in the world would anyone want a client looking over your shoulder while you're working?

Back on subject for IE though. This thread isn't about you. PM me if you want to continue.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

You guys win. We'll have C2 / HEP ready rails here shortly. The red ones will take longer as they need to be anodized. 

Maybe some black ones too?


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Wish I still had my 08.


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I wish I had unlimited access to integrated's parts warehouse!

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TylerO28 said:


> I wish I had unlimited access to integrated's parts warehouse!
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


X2


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

TylerO28 said:


> I wish I had unlimited access to integrated's parts warehouse!
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


Or just there CNC machines


----------



## anteramk5jetta (Sep 11, 2011)

TylerO28 said:


> I wish I had unlimited access to integrated's parts warehouse!
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


x3


----------



## define your self (May 23, 2009)

Any updates?


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

In for news later.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

We will have some cool dyno related news next week. The Bonneville race 1.8T project pulled the 2.5L off the dyno temporarily but we will have that rectified then.


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Well hurry up on it Pete! 

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

We had to temporarily take the 2.5L off the engine dyno to break in and tune a IE race engine. Now we are getting ready to get the 2.5 back on for more development, but first... can anyone guess what we are testing in this photo:


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

where you testing any cams? or your new intake manifold?

any solution to the belt slipping at high rpm?


----------



## Blitzkrieg'nBunny (Feb 11, 2007)

finally cams? yes?...damnit now im waiting on your sri and dropping all my monies on stupid school, now i need to start saving up for those..

thanks for the 2.5 love IE!!!


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I love this thread. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Saw the pic on Facebook alittle bit ago, if its Cams like I hope this is so AWESOME! Had plans of possibly going turbo next year but I think I might hold off alittle while longer if you guys come out with some cams. I wanna stay NA as long as I can and see what I can do with this engine sans Turbo lol.


----------



## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

Yes! Cams & SRI for me please!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Cool


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

These cams gonna be geared toward n/a or FI? Oem is fine for boost right?


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

A good cam set will probably pick up 100+ bhp on 600 or 700 bhp base turbo... 

Luckily, this motor has no keyways and so we can make the same profiles work for both quite well- by changing the center lines they are installed on. The first sets are all larger profiles with 12mm of lift, eventually there will be drop in ones as well. 

The 12mm of lift requires our spring kit and modification to the valve guides. Not for the faint of heart. With any luck though, I'll have something impressive for you guys early next week. Unless anybody wants to get a cam / VVT unit seal ring here tomorrow. Hahaha.


----------



## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

These have been sitting on your desk for long enough lol...glad to see they're finally going in. Sending pm

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

This thread is quickly becoming one of the best threads I've read, :heart: you guys.


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

N/A cams would be awesome. I know 2.5 guys have been waiting for a long time for some!


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Fired up and running... Had a few non-cam related issues (relays, vacuum leak in the plastic intake manifold) that need to be sorted out on Monday... Then we'll see whats up. 

We'll make a video tomorrow when we get those sorted out. Trust me, I'm more excited about this then you guys  It took FOREVER to have these made- and then intake manifold dyno teseting delayed me being able to actually use them for even longer. I designed these so freakin long ago I can barely remember the details. :screwy:


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> A good cam set will probably pick up 100+ bhp on 600 or 700 bhp base turbo...
> 
> Luckily, this motor has no keyways and so we can make the same profiles work for both quite well- by changing the center lines they are installed on. The first sets are all larger profiles with 12mm of lift, eventually there will be drop in ones as well.
> 
> The 12mm of lift requires our spring kit and modification to the valve guides. Not for the faint of heart. With any luck though, I'll have something impressive for you guys early next week. Unless anybody wants to get a cam / VVT unit seal ring here tomorrow. Hahaha.


Cool, great news!


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

so what kinda power can us na guys expect from a set of these coupled with sri and a tune? are u only gonna make one set for turbo cars and na cars or are you makin seperate sets for both? best news ive heard all year by the way


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

tay272 said:


> so what kinda power can us na guys expect from a set of these coupled with sri and a tune? are u only gonna make one set for turbo cars and na cars or are you makin seperate sets for both? best news ive heard all year by the way


Like Pete said, its the same cam for both setups.because the cams can be adjusted for either set up.more over lap vs less. The best thing is our motor has a cool cam design that can be clocked for whichever way you decide.f/i or n/a the cam setup will be Universally useful

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TylerO28 said:


> Like Pete said, its the same cam for both setups.because the cams can be adjusted for either set up.more over lap vs less. The best thing is our motor has a cool cam design that can be clocked for whichever way you decide.f/i or n/a the cam setup will be Universally useful
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


Which is amazing!


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Which is amazing!


Indeed

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

gotcha, thats pretty sweet then.


----------



## WakingTh3Fall3n (Feb 20, 2012)

Watching and waiting paitently... Don't think this would be too much of a problem on the mkvi motor:laugh:


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Went away for the weekend and come back to this news. So much win. I need to save all my pennies.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## WakingTh3Fall3n (Feb 20, 2012)

lessthanalex said:


> Went away for the weekend and come back to this news. So much win. I need to save all my pennies.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


 I'm tempted to sell part of my soul to a ginger.... I mean starting to pinch pennies too lol 
:laugh:


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Cant wait to see charts. :heart::heart::heart::heart:


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## WakingTh3Fall3n (Feb 20, 2012)

Forget if how much for the engine as is with a tune and exhaust to compliment it


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

Huh?


----------



## Blitzkrieg'nBunny (Feb 11, 2007)

watched this thread religiously for a while stepped away for about a week came back to this win... i think for the sake of my 2.5 brethren i will be taking 5 day sabbaticals more often and saving all of the pennies


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

So I'll ask the question. Are you guys planning on working with a software company to make files to work with all your wonderful hardware or will you be selling software or what's the deal. I wanna hop on board manifold and cams when they are released. 2.5 NA would be able to stage stage 1+ to 2 mkv gti. Sounds about perfect to me for a daily. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

lessthanalex said:


> So I'll ask the question. Are you guys planning on working with a software company to make files to work with all your wonderful hardware or will you be selling software or what's the deal. I wanna hop on board manifold and cams when they are released. 2.5 NA would be able to stage stage 1+ to 2 mkv gti. Sounds about perfect to me for a daily.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


Pete uses united.i think he will continue to for development

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

TylerO28 said:


> Pete uses united.i think he will continue to for development
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


Okay sounds good. This is gonna get expensive for me, pulling ECU and sending it to make sure I can get it all running. Stoked on being able to rock a pretty beefy 2.5L NA


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

lessthanalex said:


> So I'll ask the question. Are you guys planning on working with a software company to make files to work with all your wonderful hardware or will you be selling software or what's the deal. I wanna hop on board manifold and cams when they are released. 2.5 NA would be able to stage stage 1+ to 2 mkv gti. Sounds about perfect to me for a daily.
> 
> Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


At least one...


----------



## WOB-SH573 (Apr 21, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> At least one...


Excited to see the results Pete, still hoping to put a 2.5 in my MKIV track car


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> At least one...


This is very good news.


----------



## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Ahhhh you guys are KILLINGGG us! Cant wait to see some numbers for these. You guys keep up the great work as always :thumbup:


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## Blitzkrieg'nBunny (Feb 11, 2007)

i hope c2 comes thru with a cam tune too, those guys are awesome and i want to do more business with them


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Blitzkrieg'nBunny said:


> i hope c2 comes thru with a cam tune too, those guys are awesome and i want to do more business with them


Lol... Until you have cel issues.and what not.i love the guys at c2.i just don't love their tuning capability. There will be a better tune from another company I'm sure of it. Will c2 work? Sure...but the best is the best.

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TylerO28 said:


> . Will c2 work? Sure...but the best is the best.


and C2 isnt it.


----------



## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> and C2 isnt it.


QFT Fred! :thumbup:

I stepped away from this thread about a month ago (same with vwvortex lol) but wow am I excited to see what you have managed Pete! Keep up the great work and thanks for your continued support to the 2.5! :beer:


----------



## magics5rip (Mar 17, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> and C2 isnt it.


UM! :thumbup: If IE has Um on the list of companies, I'm seriously considering some cam/SRI action.


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm gonna pray for Unitronic although I doubt it will happen. Save money now, order it all, call Unitronic, beg and plead, probably fail. Park car, pull ECU, send to Jeff Atwood, install everything, love life.


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## bunnyfufu (Jan 25, 2011)

any update on this yet?


----------



## KAKASHIxRABBIT (Sep 20, 2010)

So excited to see what the SRI+Cam set up will do. Keep up the great work guys!

noob question

We've seen on our 2.5 not reacting well with headers on there own. Then we seen headers helped a bit with the addition of an SRI. Will the addition of cams impact the usefulness of headers on the 2.5?

Thanks


----------



## biggerbigben (Jan 21, 2004)

Watching with great interest from the other side of the pond in sunny England! (with a 2.5 sat in the garage ready to be pulled apart!) Hopefully you'll be bolting up a nice big turbo at some point after you've satisfied the NA fans?


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

A little tease for you guys, this is a rapid prototype section of our manifold for engine dyno testing. Trying out some new dimensions.


----------



## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

Nice and smooth volute. My project begins in April and you guys will be seeing a lot of my plastic bits out of the leather in my back pocket. Have fun at work.


----------



## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

bump for updates


----------



## Golf 2.0T (Apr 17, 2007)

anything new on the cams ? its probably on everyone x-mas wishlist . would be a great upgrade for next drag season:thumbup:


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

So.....is the Supercharger Pete mentioned still on the books? That's the ONLY form of FI I'm even remotely interested in.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


> So.....is the Supercharger Pete mentioned still on the books? That's the ONLY form of FI I'm even remotely interested in.


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5465995-supercharged-2.5l


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

mldouthi said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5465995-supercharged-2.5l


I've seen that thread. I assumed it was a one-off. Pete said something in another thread that made it look like Integrated Engineering was developing a kit I could buy. I'm an engineer, but of the computer variety. Fabbing measured in anything larger than nanometers isn't exactly my forte.


----------



## mldouthi (Jun 26, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


> I've seen that thread. I assumed it was a one-off. Pete said something in another thread that made it look like Integrated Engineering was developing a kit I could buy. I'm an engineer, but of the computer variety. Fabbing measured in anything larger than nanometers isn't exactly my forte.


Got it, sorry about that. I think it would be cool if someone made a kit. pm'd as well to keep this thread on IE.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

bobsuncle said:


> I've seen that thread. I assumed it was a one-off. Pete said something in another thread that made it look like Integrated Engineering was developing a kit I could buy. I'm an engineer, but of the computer variety. Fabbing measured in anything larger than nanometers isn't exactly my forte.


Off topic but, woo woo nanotechnology! Do you work in a fab or do wafer design?


----------



## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> A good cam set will probably pick up 100+ bhp on 600 or 700 bhp base turbo...
> 
> Luckily, this motor has no keyways and so we can make the same profiles work for both quite well- by changing the center lines they are installed on. The first sets are all larger profiles with 12mm of lift, eventually there will be drop in ones as well.
> 
> The 12mm of lift requires our spring kit and modification to the valve guides. Not for the faint of heart. With any luck though, I'll have something impressive for you guys early next week. Unless anybody wants to get a cam / VVT unit seal ring here tomorrow. Hahaha.


So what's the estimate of hp on N/A with these cams you guys are working on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

vr6-kamil said:


> So what's the estimate of hp on N/A with these cams you guys are working on?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


15-20 N/A imo


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> 15-20 N/A imo


E85 tune will still mean that w/ SRI+SRI+headers+catback+cams we're looking at nearing 240+WHP

That's going to be sick...


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


> E85 tune will still mean that w/ SRI+SRI+headers+catback+cams we're looking at nearing 240+WHP
> 
> That's going to be sick...


Ya to be modest 220-230 on e85 :beer:


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya to be modest 220-230 on e85 :beer:


That's why we have drills LOL! Get ready for a port and polish craze!!


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## nunumkv (Jul 5, 2010)

Woah ive been gone for too long CAMS?!!??!

Message me a price and ull have the money! I want NOW!!!

the tune is my concern let me know.


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya to be modest 220-230 on e85 :beer:


That would be awesome.


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

bobsuncle said:


> E85 tune will still mean that w/ SRI+SRI+headers+catback+cams we're looking at nearing 240+WHP
> 
> That's going to be sick...


How much?...$1000+$1300+$500+$500 (tune)+???+hi'r compression pistons+head valve job...Turbo Stage 3 cost? I assume a new clutch would be required for any increase over 240whp if I have't (100k)


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

MK5CNY said:


> How much?...$1000+$1300+$500+$500 (tune)+???+hi'r compression pistons+head valve job...Turbo Stage 3 cost? I assume a new clutch would be required for any increase over 240whp if I have't (100k)


#1 I'm talking 240WHP with natural aspiration al la NO TURBO

#2 paying retail is for n00bs. I personally got my SRI, and BBK second hand but unused, and I purchased everything else on sales.

#3 You have to remember that here in the 2.5L Vortex forum we're all a bit psychotic. One day long after all the GTIs, GLIs and Golf Rs are crushed to scrap there will still be a dedicated community of weirdos squeezing every last ounce of power we can from our 2.5Ls.

Crazy? Yes. Worth the money? Dunno. Worth the blood, sweat and tears? Indubitably. Modding a 2.5L is more addictive, more expensive and more FUN than crack.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

bobsuncle said:


> #1 I'm talking 240WHP with natural aspiration al la NO TURBO
> 
> #2 paying retail is for n00bs. I personally got my SRI, and BBK second hand but unused, and I purchased everything else on sales.
> 
> ...


Not many will ever agree with your ideas. I'm the same way. I can't explain why but I refuse to turbo my car. Supercharger or NA is my preferred way to make power. I would pay as much or more than a turbo for the same or less power. I like the idea of being able to build power over time instead of the quick "drop-in" of a turbo. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

bobsuncle said:


> #1 I'm talking 240WHP with natural aspiration al la NO TURBO
> 
> #2 paying retail is for n00bs. I personally got my SRI, and BBK second hand but unused, and I purchased everything else on sales.
> 
> ...


Not many will ever agree with your ideas. I'm the same way. I can't explain why but I refuse to turbo my car. Supercharger or NA is my preferred way to make power. I would pay as much or more than a turbo for the same or less power. I like the idea of being able to build power over time instead of the quick "drop-in" of a turbo. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

lessthanalex said:


> Not many will ever agree with your ideas. I'm the same way. I can't explain why but I refuse to turbo my car. Supercharger or NA is my preferred way to make power. I would pay as much or more than a turbo for the same or less power. I like the idea of being able to build power over time instead of the quick "drop-in" of a turbo.



Here's my thoughts on power:

Turbochargers are entirely RPM dependent, and cause more problems than they are worth. 

An aftermarket Eaton SC usually only needs an oil change every 50k miles or so, on top of that, and increased displacement SC makes the powerband of an engine larger, and IMO these motors would feel similar to small V8s with a properly done increased displacement setup. The major downside with increased displacement is heat.

With a rotrex or other centerfugal blower, you get less power off the line, but more later on. TBH, it's a nice hybrid of behavior between increased displacement SCs and a turbo. They do have more maintenance than increased displacement, but they don't get hot. Rotrex is ideal for these cars, _and INA has the right idea there._

That said, 240WHP NA will kick 240WHP FI in the nuts so hard it won't know what hit it. NA has the largest power band and it's the absolute strongest at the same power levels & weight. At the end of the day, a car with ITBs rolling a 250WHP 2.5L with a close ratio tranny will run circles around 300WHP Golf R.

BTW, I feel like the only guy here who wants a built tranny. WTF is up with nobody talking about running close ratio single spindle 5MTs w/ LSD? Building a custom ratio gearbox is less than $2k and will make you scream with glee b/c you'd never leave the power band.

Turbo: bah. I only do the straight and narrow on Sunday mornings. Come sunday afternoon I want the twisties :vampire:


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I want to build a Tranny super bad as well..i have one opened up waiting for better internals right now


But i also love my turbo...and honestly if you haven't driven and i mean seriously DRIVEN a 2.5 turbo you should wait until you have... I'll be honest in saying i never liked turbo setups before this motor got force fed... It's unlike any other turbo motor I've played with. Very linear, very quick off the line and then explosive from 3000rpm up. 

Now i would LOVE n/a power.i always have. But reliably building that much power n/a would be tough...yet AWESOME!
the turbo, has many plus marks in my book including a tame ride through town, then a rocket on the twisty's and plenty of fun...
Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

TylerO28 said:


> I want to build a Tranny super bad as well..i have one opened up waiting for better internals right now
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


These IE engine dyno results are what I'm hoping to plan my ratios around. It'll be the the most accurate gauge of the ideal shift points we've ever gotten IMHO.



TylerO28 said:


> But i also love my turbo...and honestly if you haven't driven and i mean seriously DRIVEN a 2.5 turbo you should wait until you have... I'll be honest in saying i never liked turbo setups before this motor got force fed... It's unlike any other turbo motor I've played with. Very linear, very quick off the line and then explosive from 3000rpm up.
> 
> the turbo, has many plus marks in my book including a tame ride through town, then a rocket on the twisty's and plenty of fun...
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


I'll drive one if someone near DFW will let me. I've driven a LOT of turboed cars, and I've always preferred blowers and N/A. However, this car keeps surprising me, and I'm willing to be surprised again.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

as far as i was concerned INA was working on rotrex SC, not IE.
BIG difference.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Edited my post read above

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> as far as i was concerned INA was working on rotrex SC, not IE.
> BIG difference.


Ahh, so it is. Forgive my ignorance.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

TylerO28 said:


> Edited my post read above



Same


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:beer:


----------



## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

Crazy yes? and i prefer NA over all. Just want a DD with way more power. I'm sure there's other threads to discuss. Waiting for IE update.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

I'm with Tyler, until you've DRIVEN a turbo 2.5l, don't put all your eggs in the N/A basket. 
I had every power mod available for the 2.5l before I went turbo. You couldn't get me to switch back, cams or not. 
Turbo is way too much fun on this motor!


----------



## nunumkv (Jul 5, 2010)

Id prefer to keep my 2.5L all motor. No turbo set up out now seems close to being worth its money in power.
Id rather go custom. But ill hold off keep waiting for NA parts like this.
The sound of a 2.5L is sex enough. spool ruins it 

Keep the turbos with my GLI


----------



## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

nunumkv said:


> The sound of a 2.5L is sex enough. spool ruins it


Again don't knock what you don't know...
have you heard a 2.5t spool? I mean in real life next to you? Lol nothing changes except the 5 cylinder sound comes alive!
It very much keeps it's tone...but gets better with spinning that big snail

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


----------



## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

> spool ruins it


blasphemy!



TylerO28 said:


> Again don't knock what you don't know...
> have you heard a 2.5t spool? I mean in real life next to you? Lol nothing changes except the 5 cylinder sound comes alive!
> It very much keeps it's tone...but gets better with spinning that big snail
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


:thumbup:


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

nunumkv said:


> Id prefer to keep my 2.5L all motor. No turbo set up out now seems close to being worth its money in power.
> Id rather go custom. But ill hold off keep waiting for NA parts like this.
> The sound of a 2.5L is sex enough. spool ruins it
> 
> Keep the turbos with my GLI


If we ever get a vaible aftermarket head then I'm with you on this. If it doesn't I'm going to supercharge.


----------



## nunumkv (Jul 5, 2010)

TylerO28 said:


> Again don't knock what you don't know...
> have you heard a 2.5t spool? I mean in real life next to you? Lol nothing changes except the 5 cylinder sound comes alive!
> It very much keeps it's tone...but gets better with spinning that big snail
> 
> Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


You implying i dont know? 
Are you the only person with a 2.5l turbo?
And im not even bagging on it i myself perfer a NA 2.5l 
People cant have opinions anymore


----------



## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nunumkv said:


> You implying i dont know?
> Are you the only person with a 2.5l turbo?
> And im not even bagging on it i myself perfer a NA 2.5l
> People cant have opinions anymore


Nope, Since you don't have a turbo, and others do, they are right you are wrong- Vortex mentality :beer: 
Fact- Turbo quites down exhaust tone significantly 
A 2.5t sounds tamed compared to a 2.5l with Sri, intake, headers with a TT catback which straight screams. Both setups sound great, and a 2.5t blows the sound of a 2.0t off the map :beer:


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Here is a little something: 
More intake manifold R&D, using this rapid prototype manifold section for test fitment.


----------



## WakingTh3Fall3n (Feb 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Here is a little something:
> More intake manifold R&D, using this rapid prototype manifold section for test fitment.


You guys are more of a tease than my ex girlfriend


----------



## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

WakingTh3Fall3n said:


> You guys are more of a tease than my ex girlfriend


No kidding, my balls are getting blue over here.


----------



## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

WakingTh3Fall3n said:


> You guys are more of a tease than my ex girlfriend


That manifold is hotter than my ex girlfriend --so all is good :laugh:


----------



## aicsurfid (Oct 16, 2012)

so, when are we gonna see some numbers


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## endicott (Nov 6, 2002)

for my dd all i want for Christmas is more NA low rpm torque. Will any of these products in development help me, or are they for more geared towards high rpm gains? 

I guess I'm looking for more of a street 2.5 rather than a race 2.5 if that makes sense.

Whatever you develop I applaud you, this stuff is porn for mechanical engineers.


----------



## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

endicott said:


> for my dd all i want for Christmas is more NA low rpm torque. Will any of these products in development help me, or are they for more geared towards high rpm gains?
> 
> I guess I'm looking for more of a street 2.5 rather than a race 2.5 if that makes sense.
> 
> Whatever you develop I applaud you, this stuff is porn for mechanical engineers.


x2

I am not racing my bunny but driving it on the street so I want more power where I use it not at 8k rpm.


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

This is part of our intake manifold prototype bone yard. We use our in-house rapid prototype machine to make numerous changes to our designs followed by extensive testing on our in-house engine dyno for optimized results. This ensures a quality design and the best performing manifolds available.


----------



## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

:thumbup:


----------



## biggerbigben (Jan 21, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> This is part of our intake manifold prototype bone yard. We use our in-house rapid prototype machine to make numerous changes to our designs followed by extensive testing on our in-house engine dyno for optimized results. This ensures a quality design and the best performing manifolds available.


It can't be long now then...


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

In this photo you can see our in-house EDM machine at work, used to rifle drill Integrated Engineering connecting rods. 










Rifle drilling forces oil to the wrist pin, this reduces friction on the pin and pin bushing, thus reducing wear. A highly recommended option for street cars that are driven frequently. Available option for all H beam rods, and standard on Tuscan I beam rods.


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## rabbit 62052 (Nov 14, 2011)

I was wondering if there was a certain price point you were trying to be at with the intake manifold? Trying to figire up how much to set aside.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

rabbit 62052 said:


> I was wondering if there was a certain price point you were trying to be at with the intake manifold? Trying to figire up how much to set aside.


I would put aside the same as the other ones just in case. If its less, buy more stuff. :thumbup::thumbup:

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


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## bobsuncle (Oct 18, 2012)

How am I ever supposed to save money now?


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## palma (May 16, 2010)

Updates?


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## Brownbomber (Sep 15, 2012)

Any updates?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

bobsuncle said:


> How am I ever supposed to save money now?


 Thought money wasn't a problem for you?


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Brownbomber said:


> Any updates?





palma said:


> Updates?




Sorry guys, we are in the long wait now. Here is where we are at with the intake manifold, the design has been performance optimized and tested for fitment and over all finalized. :thumbup:

Now casting has begun, the casting molds take a lot of time to design as well before it can be manufactured. Then tools will have to be made to create the molds out of sand, which makes the final casting. This is a model of what will make up the interior volume of the manifold, including a couple of risers and gates:










These are models of what the raw finished casting will look like before machine work:










Now, keep in mind even though the design is finalized and the casting has begun these will not be available for sale in a few days or anything like that. The casting design process takes a lot of time, producing the casting tools takes a lot of time, casting takes a lot of time, and final tooling machining takes a lot of time. Then we have a small production of test manifolds made for inspection and quality control, followed by another round of power testing and product fitment. All before final production of the retail manifolds can begin. But this level of attention is what produces incredibly high quality manifolds. The casting process does not leave a lot in the ways of updates either, just waiting. 

Good news is, this is all done right here in the USA... so you dont have to wait for any boats to cross big oceans. Of course, the material and manufacturing quality is a plus here as well. :thumbup:


----------



## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

I wish these would work in the MKVI 2.5s. 

Annnd cams...want those. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

I'll volunteer my car to be a test mule


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

So glad that I'm waiting. These look awesome. Is there any plans on doing an initial group buy upon release or any "unofficial" pricing that can be released? Is there any plan to offer an SRI package including things like a fuel rail and any other bits?


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

lessthanalex said:


> So glad that I'm waiting. These look awesome. Is there any plans on doing an initial group buy upon release or any "unofficial" pricing that can be released? Is there any plan to offer an SRI package including things like a fuel rail and any other bits?


Final price still depends on production costs that are still in the works as of now, so I have no pricing release as of yet. As for a package we have some projects in the works, more than a fuel rail. I'll let you know more as that develops. :thumbup:


----------



## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Final price still depends on production costs that are still in the works as of now, so I have no pricing release as of yet. As for a package we have some projects in the works, more than a fuel rail. I'll let you know more as that develops. :thumbup:


Good to hear. I like the idea of a package of goodies.

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 2


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

I like companies that support the an entire platform.


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

This is excellent.
Keep up the good work!


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I'm excited for this! The pic posted on Facebook is awesome! Can't wait for a cast manifold with velocity stacks integrated! Gonna be great

Sent from the bottomless pits of HELL!


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## cbs_24 (May 21, 2011)

Sweet pics. Can't wait to see the finished product. :thumbup:


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

The anticipation is killing me!!!:beer::beer::beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Cherb32 said:


> The anticipation is killing me!!!:beer::beer::beer:


Same


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Alright guys, it is officially 2.5L intake manifold pre-sale release time! Head on over to the INTEGRATED ENGINEERING's 2.5L 20V I5 product and new release thread. To see more details on the new Integrated Engineering 2.5L 5 cylinder intake manifold!


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Alright guys, it is officially 2.5L intake manifold pre-sale release time! Head on over to the INTEGRATED ENGINEERING's 2.5L 20V I5 product and new release thread. To see more details on the new Integrated Engineering 2.5L 5 cylinder intake manifold!


48 hp gain over stock with manifold and tune only? 

WOW


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

So, with the intake manifold project behind us, we are starting to work on some more R&D for these engines. At this point it's pretty clear with the SRI and / or cams, these things are desperately looking for more compression. You can put gobs of ignition timing in them and they will never really knock on 91- it's just too low. 

So, the next move for our dyno mule here is going to be some really trick pistons and rods, to raise the compression. We are working with JE on this. They are building us a set of custom 11.5:1 CR pistons on their smallest slipper skirt forging, with the narrowest pins we can get. We also decided for this build we will downsize the pin to a 19mm pin to save some weight. 

Then I got a little crazy- we were going to just modify some rods, but I decided we will make a one off billet set for this build. That's enabling me to go crazy with the weight reduction. They are going to use a smaller 5/16" rod bolt as well, as we know we do not want to rev this higher then 9500 rpm and we don't mind the cost of using ARP 625+ bolts. Make no mistake, this is a very expensive setup. 

Here's a sneak peak of the rods: 


















You can see we are going to an intricate beam design and it will all be surface milled using a very small end mill to get in there. That allowed cutting the weight down even further while allowing us to maintain the rifle drilled oiling hole. We wanted to run the rifle drilling because it will get us ready for dry sump in the future and it also means we do not need any other holes in the small end. We are also running a tapered small end as this is a fairly low load application. 

In total, we were able to get the rod & bolts down to around 410 grams which is a featherweight for a steel rod. To deal with the high stresses these are getting cut from an aircraft certified vacuum remelted 4340 steel. Definitely a little case of an engineer "going wild" haha.  

Oh- before you call and ask, these particular rods will not be available for public consumption. They would be $300-400 each with this particular configuration. If there is a lot of interest we will make an all motor rod that is a little more down to earth. 

I will post pictures of the pistons when they come in and of the rods when they start to take shape. :thumbup:


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## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

Great job IE. What HP can you expect with new rod and hi comp. pistons? With sri, exhaust, possibly cams and great tune of course.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Mmmm all motor build. Sounds like my cup of tea. With this type of development I'm staying n/a for sure and will, at some point, do high comp plus full internals. 

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> If there is a lot of interest we will make an all motor rod that is a little more down to earth.


Gimme this toy! I'm willing to blow some dough on my racekor, and this is exactly what I want. 9500RPMs of sheer NA power!


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

vr6-kamil said:


> Great job IE. What HP can you expect with new rod and hi comp. pistons? With sri, exhaust, possibly cams and great tune of course.



Pete earlier said he thought he could get 300BHP out of these motors NA. If these motors even hit hit 250BHP NA, we'll be running with R32s on the track :thumbup:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> So, with the intake manifold project behind us, we are starting to work on some more R&D for these engines. At this point it's pretty clear with the SRI and / or cams, these things are desperately looking for more compression. You can put gobs of ignition timing in them and they will never really knock on 91- it's just too low.
> 
> So, the next move for our dyno mule here is going to be some really trick pistons and rods, to raise the compression. We are working with JE on this. They are building us a set of custom 11.5:1 CR pistons on their smallest slipper skirt forging, with the narrowest pins we can get. We also decided for this build we will downsize the pin to a 19mm pin to save some weight.
> 
> ...


SO.....MUCH.....WINNNN!!!! :beer::thumbup::beer:


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I would be ecstatic with 250+whp n/a if possible at some point. Could finally be "done"....

Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

lessthanalex said:


> Could finally be "done"....


I don't believe that particular unicorn exists.


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> I don't believe that particular unicorn exists.


Since the motor can spin over 9K with cams and then add a little head work and SRI, it can't be far off. How far off, I don't know.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

zevion said:


> Since the motor can spin over 9K with cams and then add a little head work and SRI, it can't be far off. How far off, I don't know.


I was referring to lessthanalex ever being finished modding his 2.5L


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## zevion (Oct 23, 2009)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> I was referring to lessthanalex ever being finished modding his 2.5L


LOL. Ok, missed the inside joke. :laugh:


Aside from this, I think it's awesome that Integrated Engineering is doing so much development to support the 2.5. And their stuff is high quality and very well engineered. I used their stuff on my R32 build and now for my 2.5. Can't say enough good stuff about it. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

What are the chances this intake+tune will pass California emissions? And/or has anyone in CA done this and passed smog yet? 

(if this can pass smog, I might just have to buy a 2.5 Golf to play with - my 99 Passat 1.8T is on her last legs.)

I searched but did not find good info on power gains from DP and/or catback for the 2.5L. What is community consensus for these? ~+10hp gain for each near max rpm?

Also, bump for great justice


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Waterfan said:


> What are the chances this intake+tune will pass California emissions? And/or has anyone in CA done this and passed smog yet?
> 
> (if this can pass smog, I might just have to buy a 2.5 Golf to play with - my 99 Passat 1.8T is on her last legs.)
> 
> ...


#1 This probably isn't going to be Cali legal, mate. CARB cert costs up to $100K just for an intake, and big power makers like this usually cost even more. Not to mention these kits take out the rev hang which Cali requires in cars with manual transmissions.

Your best bet will be doing an NA build with parts that can be returned to stock to pass emissions. An SRI can pretty easily be removed to reinstall the factory engine cover and intake. The IE kit keeps all the factory emissions equipment.

#2 These cars use midpipes, downpipes are for turbos. Testpipes can gain ~5HP and catbacks can gain ~5 on a car with an intake. Together maybe ~7. Just doing an exhaust won't gain power unless you do an intake. 

With a full shorty header back on a 2.5L with an SRI, you'll get maybe ~10-15.

#3 Buy a MK5 rabbit with a MAF if it's a toy car. 2007 Rabbits with the 170HP motor are probably the best since they have the upgraded chains, a MAF and can be tuned through the port.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

thanks again RRR.

I should have been clearer, this would be a DD first and toy 2nd. Appreciate all the expert and free advise.


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## Streetliight (Sep 5, 2011)

Just a random fun fact for the Cali guy here, the neuspeed P-flo intake is CARB certified, and came with a sticker stating the CARB number or whatever.


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

Just to clarify RRR#3, 08's have the MAF and 170hp FSI. 05.5-07's have 150hp. 09's were the start of MAP with 170hp. But yes he's right with upgraded chains and a solid motor starting with 07's.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

MK5CNY said:


> Just to clarify RRR#3, 08's have the MAF and 170hp FSI. 05.5-07's have 150hp. 09's were the start of MAP with 170hp. But yes he's right with upgraded chains and a solid motor starting with 07's.


None of the 2.5 n/a motors ever had FSI. 
It's just simple port injection


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

TylerO28 said:


> None of the 2.5 n/a motors ever had FSI.
> It's just simple port injection


It's still a directly related head cast to the FSI but with out a HPFP and blowby injection.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

MK5CNY said:


> Just to clarify RRR#3, 08's have the MAF and 170hp FSI. 05.5-07's have 150hp. 09's were the start of MAP with 170hp. But yes he's right with upgraded chains and a solid motor starting with 07's.


What ECU do the 08's use? If it's the MED7.X I'd say that an 08 is a better buy over an 07.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Also to clarify, the 09 (MAFless cars) ECU can in fact be flashed via OBD port. I think it's the 10+ that have to be removed and bench flashed.

Edit: ^ 08s use the ME7 ECU, ME17 in the 09+


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Typically speaking the 08 motor and ecu is the most desirable motor. However once tuned, every motor is essentially the same. The timing chain issues can be resolved with upgraded/revised tensioners and guides. So after all us said and done. If you're keeping it stock. Get an 08 if doing any sort of a build then not much matters. However some of us have lucked it with forged cranks, while others have cast units. VW had no rhyme or reason with that and its just luck if you get one...or not


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

TylerO28 said:


> Typically speaking the 08 motor and ecu is the most desirable motor. However once tuned, every motor is essentially the same. The timing chain issues can be resolved with upgraded/revised tensioners and guides. So after all us said and done. If you're keeping it stock. Get an 08 if doing any sort of a build then not much matters. However some of us have lucked it with forged cranks, while others have cast units. VW had no rhyme or reason with that and its just luck if you get one...or not


Is the only way to tell ripping off the head and looking at it? I'm going to do internals anyways, so I'll probably shove an upgraded crank in there while I'm at it if need be.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Tearing the bottom end apart. The head has nothing to do with the crank... But yeah gotta inspect it


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

TylerO28 said:


> Tearing the bottom end apart. The head has nothing to do with the crank... But yeah gotta inspect it
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


That blows.

BTW, do you know a way to get at the bottom end without taking off the head? Or did you misunderstand what I said?


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

TrillyPop said:


> Also to clarify, the 09 (MAFless cars) ECU can in fact be flashed via OBD port. I think it's the 10+ that have to be removed and bench flashed.
> 
> Edit: ^ 08s use the ME7 ECU, ME17 in the 09+


Yeah I remember that in late 2007, some people started to see the MFD show up. The rest of us were jealous.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> That blows.
> 
> BTW, do you know a way to get at the bottom end without taking off the head? Or did you misunderstand what I said?


Yes the answer was in my response. It requires pulling the bottom end apart. If you pull the motor out, then flip it over and remove the oil pan, pickup, pump and all that jazz then you can check the crank. I wish you could tell via the crank end behind the flywheel or the crank pulley. But it just isn't clear cut like it should be.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

TylerO28 said:


> Yes the answer was in my response. It requires pulling the bottom end apart. If you pull the motor out, then flip it over and remove the oil pan, pickup, pump and all that jazz then you can check the crank. I wish you could tell via the crank end behind the flywheel or the crank pulley. But it just isn't clear cut like it should be.


Pat told me to go buy a scope (which I did). Worked out pretty well, and I got lucky --mine's forged.


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## [email protected] (Oct 23, 2011)

Hey guys!

Good news for everyone on pre-order! We have all the manifolds in house and they are currently going through quality control. All manifolds will be shipping out first thing next week!

Also, the black powder coat finish on these are absolutely excellent! Everyone at the shop wants them as some sort of decoration piece. :laugh:

Here are some photos of a black one, everyone will be receiving the pre-orders very soon!
































































:thumbup:


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## biggerbigben (Jan 21, 2004)

Awesome! Looking forward to receiving mine


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Looks like an excellent piece of kit, IE!

It's unfortunate my MK6 Golf is an automatic and can't truly take advantage of this new product and the high-rev benefits. 

Now only if you'd make a fancy exhaust manifold like Evolution Tuning.


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## oempls (Aug 9, 2004)

If only I could get the wife to do this to her rabbit I might actually drive it.


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

On the $1499 Full Meal Deal it says: Available for 2005-2008 ECUs only (2009+ coming soon) 
What is the software hurdle on a 2009-13 2.5L?


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## Streetliight (Sep 5, 2011)

I don't quite know the details of it, maybe one of the more knowledgeable 2.5 guys can jump in here, but the 09+ cars can't rev out to higher RPM's like the 08 and below can. I believe it's something to do with the ECU, or maybe the fact they switched to a MAP sensor that year. Once they crack it though, it's game over!  

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

HollisJoy said:


> On the $1499 Full Meal Deal it says: Available for 2005-2008 ECUs only (2009+ coming soon)
> What is the software hurdle on a 2009-13 2.5L?


Jeff is still working out the best way to rev the MAP-2.5Ls to beyond the hard 6850RPM limit. Tuning a car with a MAF is easier, and the tunes for Infineon Tricore chips in the newer ECUs are done mainly with hexedecimal (hex-key) editing.

Think of it like digging in the unnamed locked files in the Windows registry --except even harder.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

This is what I always pictured a 5 cyl plenum looking like, tapered correctly w/unique articulation to the oval runners. Cant wait to see the tuned results on 09 plus.

ETA on software? What bells and whistles available with tune?


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 2013)

*Integrated Engineering 2.5L Intake Manifold DIY*



Hey guys thanks for your patience why we got this done. Installing the manifold and intake kit is a rather involved process to document every step, however the DIY instructions for our 2.5L intake manifold are now available on our blog!

*Click here for install directions*

That should help answer a lot of questions on the install process for you guys!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

Just thought I'd stop in and drop this customer video of an 08 Rabbit with our Power Kit. 






:thumbup::thumbup: Sounds Great!


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Pete would you please make a MK5/MK6 Golf/Rabbit VTA catch kit purchasable on your site? I understand you guys already sell everything necessary to do so over the phone --but it would be easier to buy if it were a one click process.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 2013)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> Pete would you please make a MK5/MK6 Golf/Rabbit VTA catch kit purchasable on your site? I understand you guys already sell everything necessary to do so over the phone --but it would be easier to buy if it were a one click process.


We are actually getting started on putting 2.5L catch can kits together in the next week and will have them up for sale shortly after. :thumbup:


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## Gunbunny08 (Nov 13, 2008)

It would be really cool to see 2.5L valve cover/catch can kits from you guys. Your entire lineup of stuff for this engine is top notch, and from the looks of things you're just getting started. I want it all! :beer:


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Just thought I'd stop in and drop this customer video of an 08 Rabbit with our Power Kit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds amazing! I'm excited for the 09+ software to come out opcorn::beer:


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Just thought I'd stop in and drop this customer video of an 08 Rabbit with our Power Kit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would be a little freaked out if I came up beside that. Sounds amazing!


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

Another nice billet part would be oil filter housings. The ECS ones work fine but as I understand they don't fit all 2.5Ls.


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

mk6matt said:


> Sounds amazing! I'm excited for the 09+ software to come out opcorn::beer:


UM says they have a '09+ Tune, but it hasn't been dyno'd.
I might have to drive up North & get me sum (as soon as I get rid of my slushbox).


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

HollisJoy said:


> UM says they have a '09+ Tune, but it hasn't been dyno'd.
> I might have to drive up North & get me sum (as soon as I get rid of my slushbox).


DSG or O2Q?

It'd be damn cool to see a proper DSG with paddles swap into one of these cars. I'm sure that with a snail it's got to be ungodly fast.

The stock TTRS does 0-60 in 3.6 with a DSG. What would a big turbo DSG 2.5L with an SRI do? Jesus...


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

Rabbid Rally Rabbit said:


> DSG or O2Q


Actually, I'm looking to sell my '12 Auto & snag a '13 5 spd before they become history.
I think it'll be cheaper that way. 
TrillyPop's Level10 tiptronic mods got my hopes up. It broke, I think the torque converter blew. 
I never heard the details of what exactly went wrong.


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## Rabbid Rally Rabbit (May 5, 2013)

HollisJoy said:


> Actually, I'm looking to sell my '12 Auto & snag a '13 5 spd before they become history.
> I think it'll be cheaper that way.
> TrillyPop's Level10 tiptronic mods got my hopes up. It broke, I think the torque converter blew.
> I never heard the details of what exactly went wrong.


I HATE the gearing on my 2013. Just so you know.


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

HollisJoy said:


> UM says they have a '09+ Tune, but it hasn't been dyno'd.
> I might have to drive up North & get me sum (as soon as I get rid of my slushbox).


Have you heard a possible release date for the software?


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

HollisJoy said:


> Actually, I'm looking to sell my '12 Auto & snag a '13 5 spd before they become history.
> I think it'll be cheaper that way.
> TrillyPop's Level10 tiptronic mods got my hopes up. It broke, I think the torque converter blew.
> I never heard the details of what exactly went wrong.


My tranny failure was actually a freak accident. When I took it apart, the valve body had come loose and was hanging down into the oil pan. Getting fixed as we speak. I'll update my build thread with details soon.


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## SocoJoe (Jul 4, 2009)

Was told by Fred to email em back in a few weeks regarding 09+ sri tune. So don't guess they have the final touches done yet.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

SocoJoe said:


> Was told by Fred to email em back in a few weeks regarding 09+ sri tune. So don't guess they have the final touches done yet.
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 4


yup, I talked to them last month and they said soon... I cant wait


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## MK5CNY (Sep 4, 2007)

Anything new happening with the standalone Vi-Pec V88 and other stuff on the Dyno? Or is this thread dead? IE Recap?


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## biggerbigben (Jan 21, 2004)

Any progress or news on cams?


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

biggerbigben said:


> Any progress or news on cams?


X2 on this

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3 using Tapatalk


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## HollisJoy (Dec 26, 2011)

There wasn't a Red powdercoat option, so I made one.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Bump to revive this thread **clear!**


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