# 2.5l Engine and 6Speed GTI transmission



## japoipnoi (Oct 31, 2005)

Will the GTI 6speed transmission fit the 2.5 engine?


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

search


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rangerbrown* »_search

I have addressed this issue a couple of times here on the vortex. no one has stated definitively whether it will fit or not. the best answer I've gotten to date is "it should" that's not a really good answer to such an expensive project. I would actually like someone who knows for sure to answer this...


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

The only thing foe certain is that the bolt patten is exactly the same as the 2.5 trans.
6 months ago i would have went with it "should" fit, but after having to modify the 1.8t o2j trans to properly mate it the 2.5 motor, I would have to say it has to be tested to b e certain.
If you guys know someone local to me with a 6speed trans or casing, I will be able to test fit it.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

After looking at this pic from dark's profile. I think its a very slim chance the trans will fit due to the bluge underneath the vaccum pump.


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## Lloyd Plumtree (Aug 13, 2008)

*FV-QR*

aww that lil turbo is sooo cute dre.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

Thats my pic from my rabbit...and it's T3/T4


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

I was thinking about this swap as well. No one knows how much torque the 6spd Tiptronic trans can take. Dark Bunny's with 14-15psi seems to be holding up just fine. No one knows if it can comfortably go beyond that or not. Just to be on the safe side I wanted to switch to the GTI 6speed and fit a bigger clutch and not the 5spdm that comes with the 2.5. Maybe the pump can be modified or relocated? Idk, Andre maybe you can do some research b/c I'm sure if it is possible, this will quickly become a very popular swap.


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (rustlerdude)*

how sturdy is the stock Rabbit/Jetta 5spd trans and clutch assembly?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (darkk)*

the rabbit trans is crap without a diff.


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

*Re: (darkk)*

it depends what version of the trans you have.
the later jv8 or somthing is the strongest and also the one with less reports of issues


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

You mean my JCT


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

Are the gear/torque points going to match up between the 2.5L engine and the gearing on the 6sp transmission?


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

what?


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

I'll rephrase. Are the gear ratios from a 6 sp GTI tranny suitable for a 2.5L engine? I don't have any experience with transmissions swaps but having a taller 5th gear would be nice sometimes. However, running out of steam even quicker now in first gear would not be a benefit.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: (sagerabbit)*

Since the 6 speed has two different diff ratios depending on gears..you'd have to calculate overall gear ratio by gear...see Bentley Manual for details! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (spitpilot)*

i spent about 2 weeks after waterfest working with a customer getting him all the odd's and ends to convert his 2.5L to six speed...last i heard from him he got it to work although he said he was gonna post a thread about it but i don't think he ever did
on another note their will deff be a 6spd going in dre's rabbit as soon as we explode the 5spd, i give it til the end of april


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## Tbugsy (Nov 11, 2007)

Isn't the MK6 supposed to come with a 6 speed mated to the 2.5? 
Just a thought.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_i spent about 2 weeks after waterfest working with a customer getting him all the odd's and ends to convert his 2.5L to six speed...last i heard from him he got it to work although he said he was gonna post a thread about it but i don't think he ever did
on another note their will deff be a 6spd going in dre's rabbit as soon as we explode the 5spd, i give it til the end of april









Thanks for the reassuring words "Pal" .


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## Lower it!! (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

I'm determined to make this happen as I need a new trans anyways and want to get raxles made.


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

What is so hard about this? You need:
new hose for slave
clutch/trans/flywheel/PP
axles from gti
shifter linkage


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (rustlerdude)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rustlerdude* »_What is so hard about this? You need:
new hose for slave
clutch/trans/flywheel/PP
axles from gti
shifter linkage

the trans case will have to be mod'd slightly and you need more parts than what you listed but still is not a difficult task


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## moodyshark88 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

bump


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## moodyshark88 (May 10, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

bump


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## DRGraphix (Jun 7, 2008)

I have been driving my 6-speed 2.5L Jetta for a few months now. Very nice. The ratios are well spaced, and there's a good cog for every curve! First is very short, you'll shift soon, but get off the line a bit quicker. 6th is almost equal to 5th in your transmission, so you'll see just about the same highway mileage. I get about 30mpg hwy doing an average of 75-80.
You DON'T need to modify the case in any way, it really does just bolt right up. You need to mix the bolts from both cars and purchase one separately (It's on the bottom of the transmission, and needs to be 10 mm longer than the stock bolt. I got mine from Fastenall) You will also need the transmission mounts on the driver's side. The dogbone bolts right up. 
My transmission came from an '07 GTI. It only had 7,000 miles on it, and I'm using the stock clutch/flywheel. You need a GTI clutch and flywheel, starter, axles, and all of the plumbing connecting the clutch master to the slave. NOTE: VW had several axle models and they only work with certain trannies, so you should get the ones from the transmission you find, you can have them rebuilt if needed. If you can't get them, at least try to keep the VIN from the donor car, so you can order matching replacements (rebuilding is much cheaper, though). You don't need anything special for the hubs, the new axles just slide right in. 
You DON'T need the shifter linkage, but you do need the new cable mount. I learned this the hard way: The linkage and cable themselves are identical, the bracket to mount the cables to the transmission is different. and the cables are crossed in the 5-speed application. To reverse this, you have to trace the cables to just under the heat shielding above the cat. There, you'll find a wire tie keeping the cables crossed. Just cut this tie and uncross the cables. You won't even need to adjust their length (which is adjustable, don't screw with it). This saves you from having to remove a lot of stuff to swap the actual shift box.
The swap is possible, but only easy with the right tools. After taking apart my whole subframe, I wish I could have just pulled the motor/trans combo out from above. Also remember, the 6-speed has an entire shaft of gears added to it (it actually has 2 different final drives). It's significantly bigger than the 5-speed and weighs nearly 40 lbs more. If you do this swap, seriously consider your suspension and your brakes.
I hope this helps. I seem to be the only person out here who's actually done this, but then again, maybe everyone else is too busy driving theirs...










_Modified by DRGraphix at 12:48 PM 4-18-2009_


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Do you have any pictures of the completed swap?


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## DRGraphix (Jun 7, 2008)

I've got them somewhere on another computer (just using my laptop right now). I'll try to get them up within the next week. The main size increase between the transmissions is in height, so I don't know how that will affect an existing turbo setup.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (DRGraphix)*

Thats interesting how you mentioned that the axles and hubs and everything slide right in considering how in another thread "Project - Stupid Axles" the OP LowerIt! was having alot of difficulty getting his to fit. Maybe it has something to do with the application being vehicle specific like how you said you should get them from the same vehicle you get the tranny from.
Also, with the transmission being significantly bulkier, switching from the 6spd Tiptronic to the 6spd manual version would more or less negate any performance/weight advantage. So the only possible reason to switch from Tip to manual would be for greater torque holding capacity. But then again, the power levels needed to effectively destroy a Tip are unknown but right now its looking pretty reliable compared to the O2J 5spdm.
Another possibility brought to my attention by the geniuses at Fifteen52 for any Tip owners considering this swap would be a cheaper route to upgrading your Tip. The new Tiguan has the 2.0T FSI however it comes with a conventional 6spd Tip and does not get the DSG but the Tiguan is tow rated. Perhaps VW added some reinforcements to that transmission that could easily transfer over to the Tip found in Rabbits and Jetta 2.5s??
Anyways, props for actually doing what we've all been dreaming about!


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## rustlerdude (Aug 13, 2007)

There are two tiptronic 6 spds... 09G and 09M. The rabbit/jetta have the 09G. The 09m is in the passat and passat v6. This has external cooler lines and can handle 332 lbs-ft torque. The M is probably in the tiggy too.


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## slomk5 (Feb 9, 2009)

i think the 5 spd would be just fine if 5th gear wasnt geared so high... would be fun to actually be able to put that needle on 160 some day.. with enough hp that is


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (R-a-p-e stove)*

the 5th gear out of the tdi's maybe


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

Really considering the C2 stg II but I know the 2.5L trans should blow before the engine does (unless i'm stupid and mess something up).

I think i want to do this before i call up C2

Reading this has definitely helped a lot! a couple questions:

Does it matter what year GTI I get the trans from? I know I should get all the parts needed from the same car (to make it easier).

So i'll need the GTI starter as well because the 2.5L one will not fit?



> I wish I could have just pulled the motor/trans combo out from above.


I do have access to an engine hoist... (we a 5.0 mustange engine into a ford ragner last break... lol)
Would it be any easier to hoist it up and swap it out on the ground?



> but you do need the new cable mount.


And what cable mount do you speak of? Do you mean the linkage that sits on top of the trans?


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

I've also had the swap done. 2006.5 GTI 6-Speed into a 2008 Rabbit. I wrote a comprehensive message to TeamZleep about it but it's deleted from my sent box so he may still have it somewhere.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> I've also had the swap done. 2006.5 GTI 6-Speed into a 2008 Rabbit. I wrote a comprehensive message to TeamZleep about it but it's deleted from my sent box so he may still have it somewhere.


I've still got it I think, I'll check and see if I can paste it here... I'm still going for it, I just need my savings account to replenish from the turbo!


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> Hey bud, I know you haven't asked yet but I'll tell you everything I can on here about my swap. If you want to post it, feel free, but clean it up and take unnecessary crap out.
> 
> In my case, I put a 6-speed from a 2006.5 GTI into my 2008 Rabbit. When I had looked around the forums, only one person had done the swap so I asked him about it. He gave me a very long and semi-detailed response so I threw the idea on the back burner until I saw a trans go for sale relatively close to me. I contacted the seller and he said a friend of his would be willing to help put it in so I went for it.
> 
> ...


Here you guys go!


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## 4door1.8T (Oct 13, 2007)

Audi4u said:


> the rabbit trans is crap without a diff.[/Q
> 
> So its the diff that is the weak point? dont have much experience with this transmission but was thinking of a LSD not only for strength but for autocross and better traction in snow.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> I've also had the swap done. 2006.5 GTI 6-Speed into a 2008 Rabbit. I wrote a comprehensive message to TeamZleep about it but it's deleted from my sent box so he may still have it somewhere.


Very nice... That is a lot of help thanks!

In your message you don't mention anything about the starter or anything else except for the basics: GTI axles and trans mount, a longer bolt. No need for GTI slave tubing?

Would it be an either or between the GTI starter and shaving the top of the bell housing? Or will this be evident when I line it up? Can i keep my stock starter then? (06 jetta)

i still need to source the trans but this is definitely next on my list!

i would definitely go to single mass and put in a new clutch when i do this while it is all in pieces.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

4door1.8T said:


> Audi4u said:
> 
> 
> > the rabbit trans is crap without a diff.[/Q
> ...


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

Audi4u said:


> The only thing foe certain is that the bolt patten is exactly the same as the 2.5 trans.
> 6 months ago i would have went with it "should" fit, but after having to modify the 1.8t o2j trans to properly mate it the 2.5 motor, I would have to say it has to be tested to b e certain.
> If you guys know someone local to me with a 6speed trans or casing, I will be able to test fit it.


just wondering what all you wound up having to modify on your o2j... for me it worked perfectly after swapping the shifter, axle flanges, and mount


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

Anile_eight said:


> Very nice... That is a lot of help thanks!
> 
> In your message you don't mention anything about the starter or anything else except for the basics: GTI axles and trans mount, a longer bolt. No need for GTI slave tubing?
> 
> ...


I think we did swap the starter as well, but my memory is hazy from that weekend because of everything we did. I also don't clearly remember about the slave tubing. Basically, if you can, do what I did and find a wrecked GTI with all the parts there just in case there's something you need, but don't realize it.

The trouble was, it definitely looked like it would fit without a problem and I was worried about the huge noise it made when he manhandled the trans in and didn't notice any immediate issues from it even though the side cover had developed a hairline crack. I'm just really happy that AP Tuning was able to sort everything out and make it perfect when they put in the new clutch.

In retrospect, I should have bought one with a sprung hub though I've gotten used to the chatter of an unsprung clutch so I guess I'll be happier with the reduced noise when I eventually swap it out for a Southbend, Spec, Clutchmasters, or whatever.


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

Anyone know of somebody who has swapped the 09G for a DSG?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

slomk5 said:


> i think the 5 spd would be just fine if 5th gear wasnt geared so high... would be fun to actually be able to put that needle on 160 some day.. with enough hp that is


Get an intake mani and tune and its becomes a possibility. Havent had mine up that high yet but someday Ill take it to the limit. When they dynoed my car, the guy inside said it was at 140 in 4th gear at its peak rpm. Also, theres a thread somewhere on here about a guy using a Tdi mk4 5th gear in his 02j and it worked. Another guy tried though and said the teeth on the gears wouldnt match up correctly for him but idk. I tried to get more info from the one it worked with but I dont think he ever got back to me. Im gonna look into it for myself though. If I could drop my revs by 400-500 in 5th, Id say that 175-180 would be possible in 5th with my mods. Milage would also be nicer in 5th cruising.


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> I think we did swap the starter as well, but my memory is hazy from that weekend because of everything we did. I also don't clearly remember about the slave tubing. Basically, if you can, do what I did and find a wrecked GTI with all the parts there just in case there's something you need, but don't realize it.
> 
> The trouble was, it definitely looked like it would fit without a problem and I was worried about the huge noise it made when he manhandled the trans in and didn't notice any immediate issues from it even though the side cover had developed a hairline crack. I'm just really happy that AP Tuning was able to sort everything out and make it perfect when they put in the new clutch.
> 
> In retrospect, I should have bought one with a sprung hub though I've gotten used to the chatter of an unsprung clutch so I guess I'll be happier with the reduced noise when I eventually swap it out for a Southbend, Spec, Clutchmasters, or whatever.



That's great thanks again for the info... The problem is finding one of those relatively close nearby in FL here.:banghead:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

all the info is helpfull but of these pics i have, can someone point out to what needs to be shaved? thats whats making me not even want to try this swap? this is from an 06 mkv gti btw.


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

I'm not sure, I just let the fine folk at AP Tuning take care of it. They may be able to give you the answer you need if they remember my car.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> I'm not sure, I just let the fine folk at AP Tuning take care of it. They may be able to give you the answer you need if they remember my car.


so how does it drive. i have a feeling 1st-3rd are short and 6th gear is about the same as the 5 speed tranny i have. meaning that at lets say 70 mph both will be 4k.... im not sure. looking into goin through with this on the jetta.


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

Honestly, I'm so used to it that I forget what a stock 5-speed feels like. If 1st to 3rd is any shorter, I don't notice any more and I'm used to it by now.

So here's the speeds at 3000 RPM (C2 flash, Neuspeed SRI, and TT Dual Borla Exhaust if that matters):
1st: 18-19mph
2nd: 29-30mph
3rd: 40mph
4th: 50-51mph
5th: 64-65mph

And at 70 in 6th gear, the engine is at 2750rpm.

A part of me wonders now if I would have been equally satisfied having the 5th gear changed in the stock trans but it's too late to do that now. Especially since my old trans is now in a car that was converted from an auto.

Probably the most significant change for me was the feel of the clutch, but then again, that might be due to the USP SS clutch line.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

i guess adding one gear drops the rpm's around 250... now im thinking i mind as well keep if 5 speed and do an lsd, and add the tdi 5th that seems to be around 2450 at 70. 

now what about the tranny from a tt that dm used on that awd rabbit? anybody go that route?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

ill do the same test on my way home. i actually think 70 mph is at 3k for the 5spd rbbt.
3k (unitronic stage 2, custum cai, techtonics borla exhaust one muffler,lw pulley)
1st: 18-19 mph
2nd: 30 mph
3rd: 43-44 mph
4th: 60 mph
5th: 72-73 mph
70 mph: 2850 rpm


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

It seems our logs are pretty much the same and our mods are almost identical. I think I'm going to keep the 5 speed and have bushur racing make me custom back cut gears. Pretty much lengthen every gear and lower the final ratio a lil bit to increase 0-60. Sell the 6 speed tranny to fund at least the final ratio, and lengthen 5th gear.

Ur logs are decent for adding another cylinder to the mix and another ~500cc displacement. I wonder if its possible to use mk4r gears in the 1.8o2j? I'm wondering if since the gears were ratio'd for a larger motor the ratios would yield longer pulls in each gear, since the 5 cylin is smaller....


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I'm wondering if since the gears were ratio'd for a larger motor the ratios would yield longer pulls in each gear, since the 5 cylin is smaller....


Nope, your rpms are fixed for a given speed in a given gear. If all things were equal a 5.0l engine hooked up to the same transmission as a 2.0l engine they would turn the same rpms at the same speed. The only exception is CVT.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

jettafan[atic] said:


> Nope, your rpms are fixed for a given speed in a given gear. If all things were equal a 5.0l engine hooked up to the same transmission as a 2.0l engine they would turn the same rpms at the same speed. The only exception is CVT.


I understand but having different gears made for my 5 speed transmission to allow for greater speeds will prob run me the cost of a 6 speed swap. From our logging ur spending 2k plus labor for minimal difference in edition to adding that extra gear. How does the 1.8t tranny log in the same manor as we just logged for a mkv gti trans, compared to my 5 speed?


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

Sorry, I didn't read through the whole thread but I'm a little bit confused what exactly you're trying to find out. Are you just wondering how it's possible that the trans from the 1.8t you tested, the MKV GTI and our 5 spd had such similar rpms at the same speeds? The 6 speed has shorter gears and much closer ratios. Even though it has one more gear than the 5spd the 6th gear final drive ratio is not much lower than our 5th gear. To compare the two: at 3k rpm in 2nd gear both the 5 and 6spd will be at 40mph however in 3rd gear our 5 spd will be going 4 mph faster than the 6spd, at 4th gear we're going 10mph faster than the 6spd and at 5th gear we're still going 8-9 mph faster.

The 6spds closer ratios and more/shorter gears will help it accelerate faster and it helps you keep the car in an optimal rpm range. It may not turn a whole lot slower than our 5 spd at 70mph but it's definitely more versatile.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I was wondering that yes. Mostly curiosity I guess. I'll keep my 5 spd and do lsd, and look into a lower final drive option as well as a custom 5th gear. A tuning place down here can custom cut gears. They do it for dsms and stis, and the new genesis. I'm guessing that will run me about the same as a swap.

I wanna build a track rabbit but also go for speed, like the Texas mile. But I guess the answer is not found in swapping in a 6 speed. LOL


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

Too bad you're too far away from me, I'd happily buy that 6-speed.


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

I would look into getting that 5th gear swapped for something a little longer. I'm not sure how big of a gear you would be able to swap in but you should be able to bring the revs down for highway driving that way.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TeamZleep said:


> Too bad you're too far away from me, I'd happily buy that 6-speed.


Ya I bought that with front haldex, I also have the r rear end from when I was going to do the awd swap. I'm selling it all to a parts warehouse out here.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

jettafan[atic] said:


> I would look into getting that 5th gear swapped for something a little longer. I'm not sure how big of a gear you would be able to swap in but you should be able to bring the revs down for highway driving that way.


Ya or if I come across a pile of cash ill buy a 6 speed and have custom gears made, but for now I'm selling my swap and goin with a lsd+ custom 5th and final ratio.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Ya I bought that with front haldex, I also have the r rear end from when I was going to do the awd swap. I'm selling it all to a parts warehouse out here.


Wait wait wait... PM me with ALL that you have... We may have to talk a deal and I may have to go for a drive.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TeamZleep said:


> Wait wait wait... PM me with ALL that you have... We may have to talk a deal and I may have to go for a drive.


Pm'd.... dude your better off and getting that custom 5th cut should cost about the same as the swap. I'll find out a quote and post it up. May even have to let my cousin try his hand at makin me a 5th. We shall see. Orange county choppers cnc guy can do it.... they did it for that drag bike.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

so, zleep gave me the motivation to do the tranny swap..! 

now i'm wondering, should i use a 5spd or a 6spd???

what do you guys think??? i know i will loose my triptonic 6th gear cruising low rpm (2700 @80) but i will have a manual car.. so, what do you guys suggest??? the 5 or 6?


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

I say 6spd if your going to hold off on the turbo for now and stay N/A. Just because you'll keep the rpms fairly close up top when WOT and you have a slightly closer ratio due to 6 gears instead of 5 so around town cruising with all the tq the 2.5 has should be fun. Then if/when you go FI you can always can the R&P so that your not shifting all the time and not enjoying/putting down to the tires on boost. Just my $0.02.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

staying NA


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

Manual is fun regardless of 5-speed or 6-speed. I did the 5-speed to 6-speed swap just for the heck of it, or just to match the golf ball shifter when they were on clearance, take your pick. The car was fun as a 5-speed, the car is still fun as a 6-speed. Helps a bit that there's more performance oriented trans stuff for the 6-speed but if I were to do it again, I probably would have just had a better clutch installed into the 5-speed and maybe change the 5th gear.

kevin FaKiN spLits and I have basically laid out that 1st and 2nd gear are essentially the same. After that, it splits off where the gearing is closer on the 6-speed from 3rd to 6th but in the end, cruising highway speeds in top gear for either are relatively close. I can imagine that this closer geared trans and torquey 2.5 would be fun in autox or on a track but I'm going to wait for the BSH engine mount before I do that.

Now, if memory serves, there's more transmissions that'll work with the 2.5 (I remember looking into 1.8t transmissions at one point), but if you're doing any trans that isn't a Rabbit/Jetta 5-speed, you'll have to shave the top so you don't crack a side cover on the engine like I did.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

I say go with the 6 speed, it will probably clean up that massive difference between 2nd and 3rd.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> but if you're doing any trans that isn't a Rabbit/Jetta 5-speed, you'll have to shave the top so you don't crack a side cover on the engine like I did.


This is what is taking me so long to do this. *I cant figure out what needs to be shaved*.....The casing is flush like the 5 spd but the inside lip of the 6 spd bell is a little different in shape and diameter...... Building this 5 spd like I had planned is a FAIL, because 5 spds fail regaurdless, and a little too pricey


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

The 6-speed did indeed look like it would fit flush without a problem during the initial install. When we started tightening bolts, we heard a horrible clunk but didn't see anything broken and thought it was just everything lining into place. It was basically a hairline crack on a random side cover where oil began leaking.

APTuning took care of that issue since I had no idea where the oil leak was coming from. Just ask them, I'm sure they'd be willing to tell you what they shaved off if they remember my car.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

shave down the top about 1/8'' . across the top 2 mounting bolts.
thats what i did when i swapped mine into my mk1 and the audi AWD trans for my passat wagon....


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> shave down the top about 1/8'' . across the top 2 mounting bolts.
> thats what i did when i swapped mine into my mk1 and the audi AWD trans for my passat wagon....


so here? shave that down, from the top down 1/8"? if so goin in real soon :laugh:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

yes, above those to top mounting bolts, the flat area above them is too tall to fit under the timing cover "shelf"


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> yes, above those to top mounting bolts, the flat area above them is too tall to fit under the timing cover "shelf"


Ok sweet. Now i just need axles, diff, and uprated clutch kit, then install will begin. I may buy a used block just incase it cracks with my luck! :facepalm:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

thats great to know...! 

btw, what clutch should i get so that i can handle about 320 hp???
i may just have something under my sleeve for maximus NA... 

so, the 5spd is crap?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

5spd isn't junk. NA would be fine on it. 6speeds are nice because they have 3gear stacks and a bit stronger. But NA? Both are fine. 6spd is over rated in my book because really don't need the extra gear.... Just sounds cool haha. 6 is more money too. I'd pick only on ratio needs. 
South bend has good combos to handle power on the 2.5. NA and turbo


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> 5spd isn't junk. NA would be fine on it. 6speeds are nice because they have 3gear stacks and a bit stronger. But NA? Both are fine. 6spd is over rated in my book because really don't need the extra gear.... Just sounds cool haha. 6 is more money too. I'd pick only on ratio needs.
> South bend has good combos to handle power on the 2.5. NA and turbo


i might be pushing about 300hp...! 
but i have read that the 6 spd is has a more performance-oriented ratios.

what would you suggest? a 5spd with a diff and a good clutch?


btw, whats the service required for this trannies?


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

6 speed is much stronger and the dif isn't complete junk either. agreed the 5 speed dif sucks but did they atleast bolt the thing together or does it still have those god forsake rivets?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

if i get a 6spd, do i need to get a diff right a way???

and what are the maintenance of the manual tranies?? how often do they need fluid change?


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

they say lifetime fluid but its pure BS. some people run GM synchromesh and others love redline mt90, while others swear by the OEM fluid. oh and to make matters worse there are different OEM fluids, one of which they claim is "heavy duty" will cost you $150+ in fluid from the stealership.

i ran redline mt90 and it got rid of my third gear grind on my 6 speed on my 24v. it sure was crunchy feeling in the winter though. however it absolutely never even slightly grinded again, even at 7200rpm! i also run redline in my harley and its waaaaaaaaay better than amsoil in terms of noise that my bike made before redline.

to answer your question, the fluid is considered "lifetime" but a lot of people change it about every 30k miles. the only reason VW calls it lifetime fluid is because they want the cost of ownership/maintenance to look lower on paper. same reason we have 87 octane stickers on our gas caps when everyone knows 89 is the minimum for this motor.

i'm about to switch my gear lube in the 5 speed to GM synchromesh because so many people swear by the stuff. will let you know how it goes.

oh and we call it gear lube, not fluid. but that works too i guess :laugh:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

great. 
then hopefully i can find a good young 6speed. to which i can baby!


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

um FYI 6spds are rivited diffs too....

but yes the 6spd is strong because of the diff size, 3 gear stacks BUT the shifter forks break. we upgrade them by drillin them, then tap the fork thread a rod in, cut it of and tif it to the SS shaft. holds up a ton more, never broke one yet.

the 5spd isn't junk. its very usable. if you have a diff in it, its just as good as the 6spd imo. the gears can be stripped on either trans(same material) but not with NA. only seen that with 350-500+ hp turbo cars.

all in all. you'll be fine with either while going na or turbo under 350ish. after that, a diff is nice. after 450-500, gears are nice.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> um FYI 6spds are rivited diffs too....
> 
> but yes the 6spd is strong because of the diff size, 3 gear stacks *BUT the shifter forks break. we upgrade them by drillin them, then tap the fork thread a rod in, cut it of and tif it to the SS shaft.* holds up a ton more, never broke one yet.


May I get a quote on price to have this done before the swap 

And also ya the mkv 6 speeds use rivits on diffs as well....


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

if i'm doing the tranny swap (6sped) , what would be the clutch to get in order to handle 300 hp?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> if i'm doing the tranny swap (6sped) , what would be the clutch to get in order to handle 300 hp?


southbend anything or save some money with fst vr6 clutch/flywheel kit :beer:


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Correct me if I'm wrong but i think this will work on the 6 speed too.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5043579-fst-228mm-clutch-kit-for-2.5-5-speed


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

I'm going to kick myself if it turns out I could have used a VR6 clutch, though I've gotten used to the fourseasons setup I replaced the dying OEM clutch with.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> I'm going to kick myself if it turns out I could have used a VR6 clutch, though I've gotten used to the fourseasons setup I replaced the dying OEM clutch with.


Do you have a 6 speed trans? Sorry if you do.... Im just lazy and dont want to back track into this thread. I am also gonna take this very very blank minded as this is my dd im going to be swapping this into. So I have to use a 2.0t flywheel/clutch kit or can an aftermarket 2.5 kit i.e four seasons tuning be used, because I have the stage 3 kit in my garage


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

DerekH said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but i think this will work on the 6 speed too.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5043579-fst-228mm-clutch-kit-for-2.5-5-speed


I think it may. I went throught my pm's because I swore I was told that you had to use a 2.0t clutch and flywheel..... Please correct me if I am wrong. :beer: I did a quick search and seems both motors use 228mm flywheel, and ecs had a stage 1 kit for 2.0t that consisted of 228mm 14lb flywheel and sachs clutch kit so their vr kit should work.... So hopefully i can maybe use my fst-228 stage 3?


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Do you have a 6 speed trans? Sorry if you do.... Im just lazy and dont want to back track into this thread. I am also gonna take this very very blank minded as this is my dd im going to be swapping this into. So I have to use a 2.0t flywheel/clutch kit or can an aftermarket 2.5 kit i.e four seasons tuning be used, because I have the stage 3 kit in my garage


Yeah, I've got a 2006.5 GTI 6-Speed on my Rabbit. The stock dual mass flywheel ended up having a ton of play in it so I ended up going cheap and shooting for the cheapest solution to getting rid of the dual mass, which was a fourseasons steel flywheel and stock pressure plate and disc (240mm kit for a 2.0 GTI). Unfortunately, I didn't do much research and found that this is an unsprung clutch setup, so it's chattery. I'm used to the chatter, but I should have ponied up more for a setup with a sprung disc.

Basically, switching up to the 6-speed opens you up to GTI clutch packages, but if I were able to use a VR6 or any other 228mm clutch kit, I would have especially since I personally don't plan on going all too crazy with the engine mods.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> I'm going to kick myself if it turns out I could have used a VR6 clutch, though I've gotten used to the fourseasons setup I replaced the dying OEM clutch with.


I do not see why not, unless the shafts are thicker and/or splines are different.. Its looking like I can use my stage 3 unless im 100% off.lol I mean ecs had a 228mm kit for the mkv gti????:screwy:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

When are you guys planning on swapping? Hopefully this summer I'll be able to do mine. I just have to wait to know which clutch imma be using...
But at the moment I'm looking for parts... If any onf you come across anything, let me know...

And yes, I do know about the tranny that [email protected] is selling.


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

i did the TDi 5th gear in my 09 rabbit. Im turbo now, going to get tuned next weekend. The TDi 5th makes a huge difference on the highway, dropped about 800rpms off the revs. I had no problems with my gear swap, but maybe some rabbits have a different trans? i paid like 330 shipped for a gear set.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Brabbit32 said:


> i paid like 330 shipped for a gear set.


From where? opcorn:


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

I got mine from bora parts. I went with the .717 gear set, says its 350 now but worth every penny. Only took about an hour to install too. I love it on the highway, and its going to be sick once I get into boost in 5th


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> um FYI 6spds are rivited diffs too....
> 
> but yes the 6spd is strong because of the diff size, 3 gear stacks BUT the shifter forks break. we upgrade them by drillin them, then tap the fork thread a rod in, cut it of and tif it to the SS shaft. holds up a ton more, never broke one yet.
> 
> ...


I only pointed out the rivets on the 5 speed dif because they were SMS'ing the heads off. As far as I know the 6 speed dif never had the self machining syndrome of the 5 speed. so are they fixed now or still the same? i drilled mine out on the o2j and bolted it together, still holding up great with plenty of stupid driving.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

what do you guys think about a stage 2 southbend daily clutch?


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

Brabbit32 said:


> i did the TDi 5th gear in my 09 rabbit. *Im turbo now*, going to get tuned next weekend. The TDi 5th makes a huge difference on the highway, dropped about 800rpms off the revs. I had no problems with my gear swap, but maybe some rabbits have a different trans? i paid like 330 shipped for a gear set.


 Who has the *turbo programming* for the 09 I5 motor?


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## Brabbit32 (Apr 13, 2009)

Jeff Attwood and his friend. He said it gunna take prob 2 days to get it done, so ill be sleeping in my truck  prob be the first turbo '09 rabbit not using stand alone


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Brabbit32 said:


> Jeff Attwood and his friend. He said it gunna take prob 2 days to get it done, so ill be sleeping in my truck  prob be the first turbo '09 rabbit not using stand alone


it would be great to see so.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> *6speed*
> 1st: 18-19mph
> 2nd: 29-30mph
> 3rd: 40mph
> ...





kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> *5speed*
> 1st: 18-19 mph
> 2nd: 30 mph
> 3rd: 43-44 mph
> ...





kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> I understand but having different gears made for my 5 speed transmission to allow for greater speeds will prob run me the cost of a 6 speed swap. From our logging ur spending 2k plus labor for minimal difference in edition to adding that extra gear. How does the 1.8t tranny log in the same manor as we just logged for a mkv gti trans, compared to my 5 speed?


i wanted to put it all together.

and i wanted to say, so far i'm doing a swap from auto to manual, and i'm looking at less that 2k in parts... so for you that are already a manual, the costs should be considerably less.
oh, and i might be buying a stock clutch, since by the looks of if, even after the mani, the 2.5 wont make much more than 170-180 wtq, so a stock clutch will be fine for a while until i do more...


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

I was saying for 2k I *thought* I could have gears cut but a dsm speed shop out here qouted me more than that for 5 custom gears plus a final ratio... If you can do this swap for around 2k go for it. I paid 1600 for my 6 speed tht came with oem clutch/flywheel, and axles....

You need shift box,trans,axles,clutch/flywheel,motor mount,speed sensor,pedals plus labor to have it all done. But hey you'll be the first to do it and if you can do it for 2k god bless, because that is cheap. eace:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i know my people.


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## darkk (Jun 22, 2006)

Brabbit32 said:


> Jeff Attwood and his friend. He said it gunna take prob 2 days to get it done, so ill be sleeping in my truck  prob be the first turbo '09 rabbit not using stand alone


Very cool, 09 and up people have been waiting for this. Jeff does nice work....


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> i know my people.


:thumbup: to you sir! That is one hell of a deal for that under 2k :beer:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

the parts, aside from clutch and labor are so far, $1790.86 (shipping included)
i am putting about 300 extras for all the bolts, and extra misc stuff that always arise, such as axle bolts, and all the tranny bolts, etc.

for the whole auto to manual i'm looking at a total of about 3k and that includes: fluid, parts, software, labor, clutch, etc.

so all in all, not really that bad. and that would be if i were to keep all the auto stuff... but imma try to sell that, probably all for cheap in order to get rid of it and recuperate some money.


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

atleast with the 6 speed it will be something unique for the $$$. i personally would sell a car and buy a GTI if i wanted to lose thousands to get a manual. then again, i did buy a manual in the first place because i hate automatics in VW's!!!!

anyway, the 6 speed will be sweet can't wait to see it in action. i got tired of mine in my 24v and pretty much stick to 5 speeds now. all that shifting is fun and sporty but really annoying in parking lots and what not!!! again though, if i were paying money for a swap i wouldn't do anything but the 6 speed. two final drives is pretty sweet too.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kungfoojesus said:


> atleast with the 6 speed it will be something unique for the $$$. i personally would sell a car and buy a GTI if i wanted to lose thousands to get a manual. then again, i did buy a manual in the first place because i hate automatics in VW's!!!!
> 
> anyway, the 6 speed will be sweet can't wait to see it in action. i got tired of mine in my 24v and pretty much stick to 5 speeds now. all that shifting is fun and sporty but really annoying in parking lots and what not!!! again though, if i were paying money for a swap i wouldn't do anything but the 6 speed. two final drives is pretty sweet too.


nah, i love my jetta. wouldnt sell it.
i know, its my/my father's fault for having an auto. when we went to the dealer to get the car (mine, i paid it, but on his credit...) i asked for a manual 5spd.
The gti/gli was too much insurance money...

so... i asked for a manual, and the car was to be deliverd 3 days later... anyways, before delivery, my dad called and changed the car to an auto, and he told me that since i wanted to sell the car in about 4 years, then the auto would be the better choice, since it would have better resale value.

2 years with the car, i regret it...  and now i'm making amends.

and now my credit is good, so next car WILL BE MANUAL. 

well... all parts have been ordered. appointment for install is set to be on the 28th.


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## MikexRich (Nov 30, 2009)

I excited to hear how everything turns out!!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

pedals... check


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

I took videos of a drive, but you can't hear the chatter of my unsprung clutch so they're not entirely useful. Next time I take a drive, I'll see if the sound recorder on my MP3 player is any better or if my digital camera is any better (unlikely on the digicam methinks, being an old Kodak Black Friday digital camera).


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

b1aCkDeA7h said:


> I took videos of a drive, but you can't hear the chatter of my unsprung clutch so they're not entirely useful. Next time I take a drive, I'll see if the sound recorder on my MP3 player is any better or if my digital camera is any better (unlikely on the digicam methinks, being an old Kodak Black Friday digital camera).


thanks. i got the four season tuning billet flywheel. 19lb

is that the one that you have?


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## b1aCkDeA7h (May 27, 2008)

Yep. I'm used to the chatter but probably would have gone for a billet flywheel and sprung disc were I to do it again.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i would have liked to go with the oem dual mass and have it perfectly silent.. but that bitc.h is just too expensive.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

we used a L+B 19lb flyhweel and sprung clutch and it was good on the "NLS 2.5 racer."


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## team3d (Dec 10, 2000)

slomk5 said:


> i think the 5 spd would be just fine if 5th gear wasnt geared so high... would be fun to actually be able to put that needle on 160 some day.. with enough hp that is


2nd to that................


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## MikexRich (Nov 30, 2009)

How's the build coming??


Chuck Norris made me write this


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

I have a questions... Since the 6 spd only drops the RPM by 100.... is there a possibility to swap out the 6th gear like you can the 5th on the 5 spd?... 

The only real reason I am seriously considering the swap is because I am the second owner and I had an oil test on the transmission oil and blackstone came back and said that the oil was abrasive as there was so much iron content.... So i don't know how well the gears will hold up to this extra power.... Stock I'll assume they are fine but almost doubling the power... I don't think they'll fair to well even if I swap out the diff and the 5th gear. 

Thoughts on both ideas?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

who said its only 100 rpm??

80mph is 3100 rpm. and 70 is 2700.

btw, i'll answer the pm tomorrow... going to bed now


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## Anile_eight (Sep 30, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> who said its only 100 rpm??
> 
> 80mph is 3100 rpm. and 70 is 2700.
> 
> btw, i'll answer the pm tomorrow... going to bed now


I saw the table from the TDI website comparing anything from the .68 to the .7










No rush on the PM, again thanks for the help!


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