# Eurovan Dimensions compared to Vanagon



## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

I am in need of a spare vehicle to transport a tandem bicycle, and motorcycles from time to time (Supermotos)... I can't find anything with the Eurovan dimensions detailed. I am looking for something like this of the Eurovan:








I know the Eurovan is better for loading and will probably have the capability to carry two motos, and the vanagon only one... but I am torn between the vanagon (I owned one for several years) and Eurovan. Having the technical specs of the Eurovan might make the decision easier... that is if the Eurovan floor is not as long as the Vanagon's, then I will probably go with my heart and get a Vanagon and just live with the engine hump.


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## miguel indurain (Jun 13, 1999)

Though it's not in front of me this moment, the original sales brochure and video tape for the '93 Eurovan showed a couple of motos loaded in the rear passenger compartment with the second and third row seats removed.
Take a look at this old thread.


_Modified by miguel indurain at 10:42 AM 1-31-2010_


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## bolt5 (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: Eurovan Dimensions compared to Vanagon (tdiincharlotte)*

You might find what you need at this vw page 
http://www.vwn-aufbaurichtlini...er-t4/
For an approximation, I can easily fit a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood behind the front seats of the Eurovan with the tailgate closed.
We carried our tandem on the roof - not the easiest to reach up there, but not too bad with a pivoting rack.


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

*Re: (miguel indurain)*

I use a Eurovan as a racebike transporter. It easily holds two RS125's and tools, raceboxes, ez ups etc.
It's the best choice because of the flat floor, and tall interior. The vanagon just won't work because even with the seats removed you have the height of the engine in back which pretty much makes it useless as a bike transporter. 
Cheers,
Jordan


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: (miguel indurain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *miguel indurain* »_Though it's not in front of me this moment, the original sales brochure and video tape for the '93 Eurovan showed a couple of motos loaded in the rear passenger compartment with the second and third row seats removed.
Take a look at this old thread.

Also this one
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2618994


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: Eurovan Dimensions compared to Vanagon (tdiincharlotte)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdiincharlotte* »_I am in need of a spare vehicle to transport a tandem bicycle, and motorcycles from time to time (Supermotos)... I can't find anything with the Eurovan dimensions detailed. I am looking for something like this of the Eurovan:









Close enough?








That's a poptop so take the top pic (about the equivalent of a Weekender MV) and subtract like about 4 inches for the popup roof and that should be about right.


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Eurovan Dimensions compared to Vanagon (bolt5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bolt5* »_We carried our tandem on the roof - not the easiest to reach up there, but not too bad with a pivoting rack.

Well I won’t be carrying the tandem on the roof any longer… that is what caused this search. The rack actually broke where the fork mounts (weld failed) while I was driving down the road and the bike did $2000 damage to my M3 and the bike’s rear wheel was ruined (though it saved the bike from total destruction).








I am going to re-weld it (the manufacturer did a horrible job with a tiny 1/16” bead and didn’t run it the whole way around the joint), then sell it. I never liked having to mess with a rack anyway. It was manufactured by ATOC (tandem specific), so if that is who made your rack, do yourself a favor and have the fork mount weld redone.


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Badger278)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Badger278* »_It's the best choice because of the flat floor, and tall interior. The vanagon just won't work because even with the seats removed you have the height of the engine in back which pretty much makes it useless as a bike transporter. 
Cheers,
Jordan


Yeah, but the Vanagon is just more fun and quirky! And you can fit one bike in by turning the bars and placing it is diagonally (loading through side door). I found someone who loaded two in this way (but one was a smaller bike). Really I am trying to figure out if I can load two in the Eurovan, because with only one… I will go with my heart and get a Vanagon. I now the tandem will fit fine in the Vanagon as it is actually a little bit longer inside than the Eurovan. 
The thing that worries me is the guy on that thread says no way to fit a KTM 450 in the Eurovan, and I can’t figure out if it was too tight for comfort or what. I do know that a supermoto will be about 2” lower at the bars all else equal due to the smaller front wheel…?


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: Eurovan Dimensions compared to Vanagon (gti_matt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gti_matt* »_
Close enough?


Much better, but I still wish it had interior width and height; as well as the rear door dimensions.


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

The supermoto shouldn't be a problem. I can take measurements tomorrow for you. What are the length and height of the bike? (remember to measure from the outside edge of the wheels, not the wheelbase)


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Badger278)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Badger278* »_The supermoto shouldn't be a problem. I can take measurements tomorrow for you. What are the length and height of the bike? (remember to measure from the outside edge of the wheels, not the wheelbase)

Hey thanks for the offer badger… the bike is just a hair over 7’ (about 2200mm), so the length is not an issue. The bars are 52” high so that may be an issue.
If you could measure the load door height and width, as well as the height of the floor to headliner and inside width, that would be awesome. 
I am just trying to determine if it is possible to get two bikes in the (positioned 69 pattern so bars clear each other) Eurovan as it would be nice to do and give a leg up over a vanagon.
Somewhat off topic, I have been trying to find a budget Eurovan and I found one semi-local in my price range, but it has a lot of CEL’s that reminds me what a pain it can be to deal with a 10 year old car with OBD-II and questionable maintenance/aftermarket hacks in its history(in NC, no inspection, no plate!). It is making the Vanagon more appealing as there is no OBD-II stuff to troubleshoot and add cost to down the road. But the Eurovan is probably a better transport… if someone can get me those 4 critical measurements above it will help me swing my decision pendulum away or towards the Eurovan.


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

Sorry it took me so long, but I measured the eurovan today. the height at the rear entrance is 50" and inside it's 53.5 keep in mind I have a poptop weekender, so the inside height is likely a bit higher on the non-poptop. I'd imagine you can compress the forks enough to get it in, and once in you're okay. The length is 97" usable length. 
I suppose you could also raise the forks in the triple clamps, but that is a little bit of a pita... Time to sell that super-retard and buy a RS125 anyway. No valves....no worries.


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

*Re: (tdiincharlotte)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdiincharlotte* »_Somewhat off topic, I have been trying to find a budget Eurovan and I found one semi-local in my price range, but it has a lot of CEL’s that reminds me what a pain it can be to deal with a 10 year old car with OBD-II and questionable maintenance/aftermarket hacks in its history(in NC, no inspection, no plate!). It is making the Vanagon more appealing as there is no OBD-II stuff to troubleshoot and add cost to down the road. But the Eurovan is probably a better transport… if someone can get me those 4 critical measurements above it will help me swing my decision pendulum away or towards the Eurovan. 

No OBD2 on a 5-cylinder Eurovan though either, but it does just means it's getting old. (Then again, if you're willing to deal with a Vanagon, "old" apparently isn't an issue for you).


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Badger278)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Badger278* »_the height at the rear entrance is 50" and inside it's 53.5 keep in mind I have a poptop weekender, so the inside height is likely a bit higher on the non-poptop. I'd imagine you can compress the forks enough to get it in, and once in you're okay. The length is 97" usable length. 

OK, at 50” the Husky will just barely sneak in without doing anything funky (I don’t have standard mirrors), and it is my tallest bike. Thanks very much… could I trouble you to get the width too? Is interior width anywhere near the wheelbase measurement shown in pictogram (1589mm)?

_Quote, originally posted by *Badger278* »_
Time to sell that super-retard and buy a RS125 anyway. No valves....no worries.










Ha ha… except I am 6’4” and 195lbs so I would look even more ridiculous on a 125… throwing a leg over a tiny motorcycle and pushing it to the limit is great fun though.


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (gti_matt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gti_matt* »_
No OBD2 on a 5-cylinder Eurovan though either, but it does just means it's getting old. (Then again, if you're willing to deal with a Vanagon, "old" apparently isn't an issue for you).

I would like to have the manual of the I-5 ’93 model for sure… I hate autos to begin with, and the EV’s auto is a particularly horrible specimen overall from what I have read, especially when you are looking at 100K+ mile used vans. Not needing to troubleshoot why some random non essential OBD-II code is not met so that I can legally drive it is just another plus with going older.


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

It's 4 feet wide at the narrowest point (between the wheels). I can fit 2 bikes (with race farings) with all my gear easily. 2 EZ-UPS, 3 race boxes, tool box, spare wheels, camping stuff...


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Badger278)*

Great pic... Clearly the EV is the better transporter. Now I need to find one that isn't too expensive, and see if the slushbox is tolerable.

I'm sure I'm the millionth person to wonder why VWoA didn't sell this with Tdi and manual transmission.








I am really having a hard time justifying the money for an automatic gas vw van, when I could get an Astro with similar cargo ability, a stronger V6 for WAY less money...honestly I wouldn't drive a POS Astro for free but it still makes it harder to stick with VW on this


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

Astro's are heavy, drive like crap and have no soul. They also aren't as tall and the doors make loading a bitch. Just find a good solid EV and love it. There are always great deals on Samba and ebay. My super clean high mileage 2000 Weekender pop-top was a crazy cheap $7,500 so even though i'll put 3k into it in preventative maintainance such as timing chains and tires, I wouldn't go any other way... Buy yourself a vag-com and bring it when you inspect any prospects, look at the service records and do a carfax. There are good ones out there...


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## tdiincharlotte (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Badger278)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Badger278* »_Astro's are heavy, drive like crap and have no soul. They also aren't as tall and the doors make loading a bitch. Just find a good solid EV and love it. There are always great deals on Samba and ebay. My super clean high mileage 2000 Weekender pop-top was a crazy cheap $7,500 so even though i'll put 3k into it in preventative maintainance such as timing chains and tires, I wouldn't go any other way... Buy yourself a vag-com and bring it when you inspect any prospects, look at the service records and do a carfax. There are good ones out there... 

Agreed and you get what you pay for... but I guess the problem is I can buy a heavy, drive like crap with no soul Astro for $1500-2000 any day locally on Craigslist. 
An equal year and mileage (albeit lighter, better handling, with a hint of soul) EV is like $6-9k, and requires driving in 250 mile radius to even check out. I have a Vag-Com already, but with the Astro(or full size fleet cargo van0 I can just throw it away and get another one. The frustrating thing is I really want to be loyal to VW but the more I research the Eurovan the more it seems like it was just ruined with its sole powertrain configuration offered to NA. It looks like a Tdi swap is not even doable(realistically) on the EV...only Vanagon.
I may as well just fab a trailer hitch and buy an enclosed trailer to tow with my M3, as that would be far cheaper to buy and to operate...and there is the rub. The high operating costs and poor reliability of the EV ruin the rationalization I am trying to do to justify this additional vehicle to the Mrs. It started as a cheap utility vehicle to transport bikes/stuff and is morphing into a $10k+ third car.
I just need to go drive one, and see if there is enough emotional connection to overpower the weak reasoning.


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

I looked at 10 year old domestic vans. They usually have 250k miles on them here in NYC and look like they were used to haul cement. Maybe decent ones are a easier find in the dirty south (I can say that cause I'm a southerner). Sell the wife on the idea that it will be a great way to do some family adventuring, and find a pop top weekender.







yes...I'm evil. besides, the fastest way to wreck an M3 is by towing something with it.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Badger278)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Badger278* »_I use a Eurovan as a racebike transporter. It easily holds two RS125's and tools, raceboxes, ez ups etc.


I was just about to post that I have transported my RS125 in my eurovan... Weird..







I assume you're on AF1 ?
edit: Nope, different RS125s












_Modified by the brit at 4:09 PM 2-11-2010_


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

*Re: (the brit)*

Nahhh not an Aprilia RS, a proper Honda GP bike.







I race in USGPRU, WERA, CCS and occasionally AHRMA. You?


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Badger278)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Badger278* »_Nahhh not an Aprilia RS, a proper Honda GP bike.







I race in USGPRU, WERA, CCS and occasionally AHRMA. You?









Yup, I noticed the HRC after I had posted








Mine's kitted out for the street, although it's currently tucked away from the elements.


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## Badger278 (Jan 21, 2010)

*Re: (the brit)*

I have a 2004 125 which I use as a back up bike and occasional rental if you ever want to go out to NJMP and have some fun. I'll probably be there for a track day or two before the season starts....


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## drumbug1 (Apr 28, 2009)

I found these from the link posted above: specifically:

http://www.vwn-aufbaurichtlinien.de...nstruction-dimensional-drawings/62-vignettes/

I think this is the 7-passenger version:












I think this is the extended larger "camper" version (MV?)


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

drumbug1 said:


> I found these from the link posted above: specifically:
> 
> http://www.vwn-aufbaurichtlinien.de...nstruction-dimensional-drawings/62-vignettes/
> 
> ...


Yes and yes (you got them correct..SWB and LWB)


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## libbybapa (Mar 12, 2004)

There is a thread on the Samba where the topic of the interior space of vanagon vs eurovan came up. Someone linked this thread and the dimensioned pics and I thought I would cross-post what I posted on the Samba thread. My post on the Samba was geared toward interior space vs. footprint, not how many bikes you can fit, but it might still be of interest.

A friend of mine and I compared his 93 Euro Westy and my '85 Westy and it was interesting to run the tape measure around and see the differences. To me the interior space difference was quite obvious. 

Based on those dimensional pictures posted I made up a quick 3D CAD model of the interior space of vanagon and eurovan. I do architectural drafting (architectural 3d models) as my day job so it was quite easy. Footprint of vanagon is 8.43 sq. meters. Interior space of vanagon is 7.2 cubic meters (yes I subtracted the engine compartment, over tranny area, dash area, etc...). Footprint of Eurovan is 8.81 sq. meters. Interior space is 6.8 cubic meters. I was actually more generous with the Euro interior space calcs as I am less familiar with it. I didn't subtract the rear wheel well areas and was more generous with the front space than with the vanagon. The vanagon has .85 cubic meters of interior space per sq. meter of footprint. The Eurovan has .77 cubic meters of interior space per sq. meter of footprint. Not only does the vanagon have more interior space, it has a smaller footprint. The difference is even more dramatic if a high top is added to both euro and vanagon.


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## Itsamoto (May 1, 2014)

libbybapa said:


> There is a thread on the Samba where the topic of the interior space of vanagon vs eurovan came up. Someone linked this thread and the dimensioned pics and I thought I would cross-post what I posted on the Samba thread. My post on the Samba was geared toward interior space vs. footprint, not how many bikes you can fit, but it might still be of interest.
> 
> A friend of mine and I compared his 93 Euro Westy and my '85 Westy and it was interesting to run the tape measure around and see the differences. To me the interior space difference was quite obvious.
> 
> Based on those dimensional pictures posted I made up a quick 3D CAD model of the interior space of vanagon and eurovan. I do architectural drafting (architectural 3d models) as my day job so it was quite easy. Footprint of vanagon is 8.43 sq. meters. Interior space of vanagon is 7.2 cubic meters (yes I subtracted the engine compartment, over tranny area, dash area, etc...). Footprint of Eurovan is 8.81 sq. meters. Interior space is 6.8 cubic meters. I was actually more generous with the Euro interior space calcs as I am less familiar with it. I didn't subtract the rear wheel well areas and was more generous with the front space than with the vanagon. The vanagon has .85 cubic meters of interior space per sq. meter of footprint. The Eurovan has .77 cubic meters of interior space per sq. meter of footprint. Not only does the vanagon have more interior space, it has a smaller footprint. The difference is even more dramatic if a high top is added to both euro and vanagon.


What hasn't been compared -- is that the eurovan/T4 also came in a long wheel base version (such as the Winnebago campers). In Canada - where we still have lots of Eurovan/Transporter panel vans -- these are always a long wheel base versions. There are even some nice 9 -10 passenger versions of these around.










Somebody described the difference of SWB and LWB as adding 40cm between the C pillar and the centre of rear wheel. How does that change the math?


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## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

Eurovan first column, Vanagon last column:


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