# Stage 3 Turbo



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Stage 3 Turbo EIP*

I wanted to start a new thread away from the Problem Pages so that the VW Vortex community can follow the progress of work being done to the motor. As of now the motor has been bored to fit the new pistons and rods. I will call this the stage 3 until someone corrects me otherwise. I started with the stage 2 EIP Tuning kit and since there is nothing that I had found outlining what the stage 3 will include I will conclude that this is it!! 
Some of the expectations of the motor are high for the amount of work and time invested into this project. 500 WHP is the biggest objective to be achieved. EIP was showing 450+ (on there video) so I'm just adding 50! I have no idea if there is any other running motor with the current modifications that I have as of know. We will all have to wait to see what this thing can do once it's back


































_Modified by DONWON at 9:01 AM 9-27-2005_


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo (DONWON)*

Give the specs on the bore you went with.
Type and compression of the new pistons? Other parts? Also you arent going to be using the maps that come with the EIP kit, what are you using for management?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo (Jcr1982)*

I believe he said the pistons are EIP's pistons which are actually forged by Ross then finished at EIP's shop in maryland
edit- found a post about them by rich

_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
We use Ross forgings, we find them to be of the best material and have the most consistent cutting, ALL EIP PISTONS are then finished in house and matched with only the very best tool steel taper wall wrist pins and full race quality ring packs...all are also individually weighed and sized to be set-matched.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo (Jcr1982)*

OK the bore is 2.9 liters and the rods are chromoly. I don't know how much power these upgraded parts will hold. I called to see if there were any parts that needed to be added to the motor before the motor is mounted back into the car. The only answer that I have is that the kit is still in development! As of know the management is the current stage 2. Does anyone know about the bigger injectors that VF-engineering uses?


_Modified by DONWON at 9:41 AM 9-14-2005_


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

You're not going to make the power you want on the stage 2 fueling solution. It won't happen. With a stand alone, big injectors, and a good tune that motor will support over 500whp but it's not going to do it on the ecu. I am really going to reccomend that you look into and purchase a stand alone engine management like 034-EFI if you want 500+ whp. If you're not going to run an SEM, I'd turn the boost up to no more than 15-16psi. I'd also be nervous as hell about running the regular stage 2 softwear, which leaves all safety sensors in place on a motor that is both bigger in displacement and running forged internals.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

donwon, i would seriously take flite's words into consideration as he has had the kit on for quite a while...
also - 1500euro is ~1800, you can do standalone for that kind of cash...
034efi
Dta 
and other systems are all around that price range



_Modified by herbehop at 1:19 PM 9-14-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

It would be $1800 dollars for them to build the program for the car and the cost of the dyno testing with there programming. Maybe a little extra cost! I have not ruled out any options as for what is best. The problem is having nothing to compare this project to even if I were to use the stand alone engine management. The current programs that are out there might just do the trick. If the Rothe-Motorsports programming works there will be minium charge! They might have to be some slight adjustments but, it is available. Does anyone have experience using or tuning the Stand Alone Management? I would like to learn more about it before I get into it!
So far the companies that have the turbo kits for this motor have been putting down some very high numbers. If I do anything else I would first like to see what they can offer!


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_also - 1500euro is ~1800, you can do standalone for that kind of cash...
034efi
Dta 


Also autronic, and motec......


_Modified by Jcr1982 at 2:29 PM 9-14-2005_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

yes - there are many others - i was just throwing out a couple names


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I think that these engine management systems will be great but everyone has to understand the problems. Who in Germany has a stand alone engine management running on a 24v VR6T? How about in the states? There are several companies here that can offer programming for the type of HP goals that I desire. Already with the turbo I encountered numerous problems and since there was no other car done I could not compare problems or solutions. The stand alone management for me as of now is my very last option! I don't have alot of time to self teach (trial and error) myself about the complexity of this system. It's enough that the car was in Holland for more than 6 months now, because of bad tuning!!
This is what I need. The standalone management systems pros and cons. I think that it sounds easier than it looks. 
Is it plug and play?
Is it self learning? (meaning that after driving the car for x amount of miles or days will it adapt to the car)
What is the overall benefit?
Why would this be the superior to the programs already available?
Rothe-Motorsports have a great program running, so does HPA!!
If the VR6-Specialist can close the programming gap then I'll trust him to do that. If all else fails then I'll be starting a new thread Stand Alone Engine Management


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

If you can get a reputable company to burn you a custom program for your car, you can acheive your 500whp goals. You won't however, do it on EIPs stage 2 softwear. I would 100% reccomend going that route if it is available to you. That's pretty much the route I'm going right now. There have been a couple schedualing holdups for my program but it should be done in a month or two now. If you don't have a solution for your car by then, I'll put you in touch with the company that is doing my program.
Given your limited technical knowledge and what you use the car for I would really reccomend you shy away from stand alone.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Im going stand alone probably by the end of this week. Were going to use microtech for know.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*

how about some infor on your gli and is it having the same problems as flites car with bad programming? or is it runing fine and you just decided to go standalone for an easier future?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_Given your limited technical knowledge and what you use the car for I would really recommend you shy away from stand alone.

Flite check this out. My technical knowledge is very HIGH. 
1.There is a kit saying it produces over 400 WHP so I buy it. 
2.This product was installed by a manufacture distributor to do the job right.
3.Now car is still at the shop for rebuild.
Given all of that knowledge and what you just said about EIP can or has not done yet is making me believe that there technical knowledge is not that high on there own product. I really don't know how many people post on the Vortex about there stage 2 turbo kit but as of now there are 3 people on this thread with it. 
That is 3 people not making the power that the kit is supposed to make. And since that is 3 out of 3 on this thread alone means that this kit might have some serious bugs for the long term. The stage 1 that are working fine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif keep it going but, that is not what I paid for!!
If I wanted to work on it in a garage then I would have went that route!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_
Flite check this out. My technical knowledge is very HIGH. 
1.There is a kit saying it produces over 400 WHP so I buy it. 
2.This product was installed by a manufacture distributor to do the job right.
3.Now car is still at the shop for rebuild.
Given all of that knowledge and what you just said about EIP can or has not done yet is making me believe that there technical knowledge is not that high on there own product. I really don't know how many people post on the Vortex about there stage 2 turbo kit but as of now there are 3 people on this thread with it. 
That is 3 people not making the power that the kit is supposed to make. And since that is 3 out of 3 on this thread alone means that this kit might have some serious bugs for the long term. The stage 1 that are working fine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif keep it going but, that is not what I paid for!!
If I wanted to work on it in a garage then I would have went that route! 

That's not what I mean by technical knowledge. By tech knowledge I mean an in depth understanding of how and why a car works the way it does. When you get a car into the really high horsepower numbers and are running on a full on stand alone engine management, really believe you should have more in depth knowledge than you do about stand alones. Given the very basic questions you've asked about stand alone, I'm led to believe you know almost nothing about how they work or what is entailed in owning a car like that. Don't take it as an insult. The reason I haven't gone stand alone by now is that I myself don't have the in depth knowledge I think is nessesary for owning and operating a car that is modified to that extent. If I had to, I could, as I know more than most and have some experiance with stand alone cars. But, I know that if there is a tuning solution out there that will properly run the car on the ECU, it will be a better option for me. I feel that you would benefit even more than I would by staying with an ECU upgrade.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Hey I have a question that I think the forum can answer. What ia a Acura RSX and are they a fast car? I have a guy that had said this to me while the HPA AUDI TT that was playing on my desktop screen!! I really don't care about what car you drive or who builds it! There have to be more work than I can imagine plus the 2 FAST 2 FURIOUS endless NOS bottle trick to pull on that type of an Audi. The next best thing to that Audi ARE the Golf and Jetta. I explained to him that the cars share most of the same parts and also have identical chassis. My car is front wheel drive and the Audi is all wheel drive.
Its just one of those things that has to be talked about!!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Stock for stock an RSX type S will beat a 24V VW. It will also beat one mod for mod. That motor will make over 400 whp on stock internals and will do so while coming in a few hundred pounds less than a VW or Audi. It's also a lot cheaper and eisier to work on the Acura. There will be plenty of people out there in RSXs that have ricey cars, but the same holds true in the VW world as well. If you ever run into an RSX that has been built the way it should be....steer clear. Turbo RSXs are no joke. Keep in mind that if you make 500whp, it'll only take 350-400whp for the RSX to keep up with you.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

Yeah im having some issues with the eip programming, the car keeps stalling at low rpms and there is also the problem with the flat spot. We have mentioned this problem to eip various time but they dont have a solution as of now. For this reason we decided to go stand alone and solve the issues on our own. Our car has je pistons and our next mods will be rods, injectors and microtech.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

know what you mean, the tech who will be setting my car has an rsx with over 500whp and ran a 10.8 1/4 mile.


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_Im going stand alone probably by the end of this week. Were going to use microtech for know.

You getting your microtech from CFT? I wasnt aware the Microtech could control drive by wire?


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_. Turbo RSXs are no joke. Keep in mind that if you make 500whp, it'll only take 350-400whp for the RSX to keep up with you.

I usually agree with you but thats not totally true, you and me both know there is alot more involved then just hp to hp. Yeah the RSX might make 400whp like the GTI but the 24v will make gobs more torque most of the time. Plus afew hundred pounds isnt that hard to get out of the gti


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

There is something wrong if there is any car with 150-100 HP less than me and is giving our 24v trouble!! *I have to see it to believe it!*
My car is the heaviest thing around and I was taking on M3's. I can say that the brakes and the suspension was a very big help on the track. _Yes, I do have Dragon Ball playing in the car on the race track.(Great stuff)_ Besides that the car holds it's own with the heated seats and the PS2!! Weight is something that plays a huge factor in motor sports but, both cars are not that far apart to where as 150-100 HP less will make them equal or faster than our cars! 
If this was a ARMORED Hummer I would then think about that race. The new M5 is a monster along with the new RS4. There aren't too many car with that kind of power weight distribution and pulling there numbers. These are big cars!! I hope that my stage 3 upgrade will hang with them!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (Jcr1982)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jcr1982* »_
I usually agree with you but thats not totally true, you and me both know there is alot more involved then just hp to hp. Yeah the RSX might make 400whp like the GTI but the 24v will make gobs more torque most of the time. Plus afew hundred pounds isnt that hard to get out of the gti

If you put the GTI on a diet, consider the same done on the RSX. It's very true that VW will make more torque, but Hondas don't seem to need it like VWs do. Even though a Honda makes less torque, the fact that it'll rev to over 8000rpms means it runs a lower final drive. VWs will always feel faster because of the off the line torque but power for power Hondas will typically be faster. For instance, I've seen RSXs with just basic mods and Hondata run low 13s on about 215 whp. to run low 13s in a GTI, it's going to take 300hp. As backwards as it may sound, everybody that races VWs knows that we're at a disadvantage. It sounds wrong to say, but Hondas make better race cars. Where VW have the advantage is in real world driving. Not racing, but regular in town driving. The torque and flat powerband make our cars a lot easier to drive. I absolutely hold to my original statement that it will take AT LEAST an extra 100 hp for a VR6 GTI to keep up with an RSX type S.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_There is something wrong if there is any car with 150-100 HP less than me and is giving our 24v trouble!! *I have to see it to believe it!*
My car is the heaviest thing around and I was taking on M3's. I can say that the brakes and the suspension was a very big help on the track. _Yes, I do have Dragon Ball playing in the car on the race track.(Great stuff)_ Besides that the car holds it's own with the heated seats and the PS2!! Weight is something that plays a huge factor in motor sports but, both cars are not that far apart to where as 150-100 HP less will make them equal or faster than our cars! 
If this was a ARMORED Hummer I would then think about that race. The new M5 is a monster along with the new RS4. There aren't too many car with that kind of power weight distribution and pulling there numbers. These are big cars!! I hope that my stage 3 upgrade will hang with them!

Well that's the difference between someone who built their car to win car shows and someone who builds their car to race. What happens at the track isn't always what you would hope would happen. It doesn't always make sence. Sometimes you go to the track in your 500whp monster turbo VR6 and get beat by a 200whp all motor civic. Most talk on this website is defending what a car SHOULD do. I do it. I actually do with my car what most people on this site talk about. I've got a ton of Honda experiance and now I'm getting more and more VW experiance and I'll tell you, our cars aren't as fast as they should be. I'm hoping to see your results when you get your stage 3 stuff figured out. I'd be willing to bet money that if you do get 500whp out of your car, you'll see no better than mid 12s at around 115 at the track. Go check out Honda-tech and see what it takes to put an RSX in the mid 12s. I'll tell you right now that it's less than 500whp. It'll be closer to 400whp. 500whp will get you faster than 12s.


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
If you put the GTI on a diet, consider the same done on the RSX. It's very true that VW will make more torque, but Hondas don't seem to need it like VWs do. Even though a Honda makes less torque, the fact that it'll rev to over 8000rpms means it runs a lower final drive. VWs will always feel faster because of the off the line torque but power for power Hondas will typically be faster. For instance, I've seen RSXs with just basic mods and Hondata run low 13s on about 215 whp. to run low 13s in a GTI, it's going to take 300hp. As backwards as it may sound, everybody that races VWs knows that we're at a disadvantage. It sounds wrong to say, but Hondas make better race cars. Where VW have the advantage is in real world driving. Not racing, but regular in town driving. The torque and flat powerband make our cars a lot easier to drive. I absolutely hold to my original statement that it will take AT LEAST an extra 100 hp for a VR6 GTI to keep up with an RSX type S.

Yeah that stuff is true, but there are reasons people buy VW's over Honda's and there are reasons people buy Honda's over VW's and they are different reasons. Hoda's generally handle better, are lighter, and whatnot but the interior fit & finish and overall quality seems to take a hit compared to the VW. Since I sit INSIDE my car all the time I prefer a ncie interior, so dub here we come. At least it has the tq to make up for the weight.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_
Yeah that stuff is true, but there are reasons people buy VW's over Honda's and there are reasons people buy Honda's over VW's and they are different reasons. Hoda's generally handle better, are lighter, and whatnot but the interior fit & finish and overall quality seems to take a hit compared to the VW. Since I sit INSIDE my car all the time I prefer a ncie interior, so dub here we come. At least it has the tq to make up for the weight.









Have you sat inside the new RSXs? Honda interiors have come a long way. We have some cool options they don't have, but their interiors are quickly catching up. And the torque only makes up for the wieght when driving around town. At the track it doesn't make up for it.


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
Have you sat inside the new RSXs? Honda interiors have come a long way. We have some cool options they don't have, but their interiors are quickly catching up. And the torque only makes up for the wieght when driving around town. At the track it doesn't make up for it.

Yeah you're correct. I have actually been impressed with the interior of the new FORD's believe it or not. It seems like they are actually coming around. I would love to love an american car company but they still get no dice for now heh. I am really dissatisfied with the direction VW is going with the MkV though, I dont think I will be getting another VW at least a A5 or B6 platform one. Maybe I will look into a R36 if it ever comes to be, maybe, other wise I will just get an S4 next heh.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*

any new pics of your nice car collection, i loved the ones u posted up before?
anyways ive called eip couple times before and they said that their stage 2 cars run fine, wtf then, i told them about some issues going on with them (flatspot) etc. and they said they knew nothing about it, but this call was over 2months ago, so maybe things changed?


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_. I absolutely hold to my original statement that it will take AT LEAST an extra 100 hp for a VR6 GTI to keep up with an RSX type S.

I know thats not a fact, because I've raced a friend with a rsx-s and im not making anywhere near 100hp more then him


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_I'd be willing to bet money that if you do get 500whp out of your car, you'll see no better than mid 12s at around 115 at the track. Go check out Honda-tech and see what it takes to put an RSX in the mid 12s. I'll tell you right now that it's less than 500whp. It'll be closer to 400whp. 500whp will get you faster than 12s.

Find the dyno of the guy who has a 24v vr6 in a mk3 orange jetta and made 500whp. He ran ALOT faster then 12's


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Flite your alittle bit wrong on that statement!! The car really does do good at the track. What I have to worry about are Porsche's not Acura's or Honda's! Since I don't know alot about Acura's I posted the earlier statement. I don't like 1/4 mile racing it's just not my kind of racing!! You can only have a limited amount of cars (usually 2) that are allowed to compete also to me it only shows one real skill in the driving technique and that is keep it in a straight line. I need something more to work with when I at the ring. I love to see the upper dollar cars and the tuned cars all sharing the road space!!
Now that is out the way 500WHP taken by a 200WHP is a really incredible achievement. That is almost saying that a R32 (Close to 200WHP) will Pull on a Supercharged LS1 Corvette 500WHP. *I'm not too sure if Honda's can do that.* But if one does I will buy 2 Acura RSX for me and you!! I have seen the Lotus running on the track alot. They look like go carts with the small tires and no roof. They also do very well at the track but the lack of power is very evident on the straight. Where I have to slam on the brakes earlier they do it alot later. I only see them passing in the turns where the weight does set them apart from every other car at the track. I cannot say that about the Honda's Sorry! I think that lotus do carry a Honda motor







I wonder what they would do in q 1/4 mile race







.

_Modified by DONWON at 4:42 PM 9-15-2005_


_Modified by DONWON at 4:43 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Hey let me post a pic !! It's been a while
The only thing that my car is missing is the big NOS sticker that usually is placed TOP CENTERED on the windshield of most Honda's!!


























_Modified by DONWON at 4:55 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Im going to have to agree with flite on the hondas...
i think all of us with turbo VR6s would have a hell of a time trying to keep up to a spoon s2000 on a race track or one of the JUN tuned cars for that matter...
Donwon, if I can prove this, can I have an Rsx too?










_Modified by herbehop at 8:04 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I love this instant e-mail reply system. This is from the Honda Forums *265 HP for the Spoon S2000 *! 
This is turning into name your favorite Honda thread. 
13.8 I guess is not bad for the S2000. Since we are in the VW Forums what would be a suitable match for this vehicle. A modified S2000 VS a modified Audi TT? This is from HPA *ZillamoTTo ran an 11.52 @ 126.71 mph*!! 13.8-11.52 might be a long way off so now I have to get the web page with the HP calculator to see what car has the advantage!! I don't know








OK this is what I did! I used this web page:*http://www.turbonetics.com.au/ATS_info_estet.htm* for the calculations. I used 4000 _(we know that the car doesn't weigh that much)_ pounds and 500 WHP for the AUDI TT and gotten 11.6 (HPA has 650 WHP on there 2nd video and 500 on the dyno chart) I added alittle weight and did not give them the max power on there video. There R32 makes more power with the same motor








Now the S2000 came in at 265 WHP and I gave it 3000 pounds and came up with 13.0. To me that is close to a 1 1/2 second difference plus not knowing the exact weight I made the AUDI a little fatter. There is close to the 300 HP difference and the proof is in the math the S2000 will not pass the Audi.
Just keep in mind both are 2 seaters, have rear wheel drive axles, and Flite's huge HP difference!! I guess that we won't be getting those Acura's any time soon


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jcr1982* »_
Find the dyno of the guy who has a 24v vr6 in a mk3 orange jetta and made 500whp. He ran ALOT faster then 12's









All bets are off when you start talking about swapped cars. I'm talking more about our MKIVs which are incredible overweight.

_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Flite your alittle bit wrong on that statement!! The car really does do good at the track. What I have to worry about are Porsche's not Acura's or Honda's! Since I don't know alot about Acura's I posted the earlier statement. I don't like 1/4 mile racing it's just not my kind of racing!! You can only have a limited amount of cars (usually 2) that are allowed to compete also to me it only shows one real skill in the driving technique and that is keep it in a straight line. I need something more to work with when I at the ring. I love to see the upper dollar cars and the tuned cars all sharing the road space!!
Now that is out the way 500WHP taken by a 200WHP is a really incredible achievement. That is almost saying that a R32 (Close to 200WHP) will Pull on a Supercharged LS1 Corvette 500WHP. *I'm not too sure if Honda's can do that.* But if one does I will buy 2 Acura RSX for me and you!! I have seen the Lotus running on the track alot. They look like go carts with the small tires and no roof. They also do very well at the track but the lack of power is very evident on the straight. Where I have to slam on the brakes earlier they do it alot later. I only see them passing in the turns where the weight does set them apart from every other car at the track. I cannot say that about the Honda's Sorry! I think that lotus do carry a Honda motor







I wonder what they would do in q 1/4 mile race







.

_Modified by DONWON at 4:42 PM 9-15-2005_

_Modified by DONWON at 4:43 PM 9-15-2005_

I could go to just about any track in the US and find you an all motor Honda that runs high 12s on 200whp. It's going to take 400 to run similar times in your Jetta. Fact.

_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Hey let me post a pic !! It's been a while
The only thing that my car is missing is the big NOS sticker that usually is placed TOP CENTERED on the windshield of most Honda's!!

























_Modified by DONWON at 4:55 PM 9-15-2005_

I hope you're not posting a picture of your car and then generalizing all Hondas as "riced out". Your car is visually no better than these Hondas you talk about. You make a lot of generalized statement about Hondas and you apparently have next to no experiance with them. The Honda world I cam from was one with NO stockers, NO body kits, NO big heavy wheels, NO heavy sound systems, NO playstations, and 500-600 to even 700whp. 

_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_Im going to have to agree with flite on the hondas...
i think all of us with turbo VR6s would have a hell of a time trying to keep up to a spoon s2000 on a race track or one of the JUN tuned cars for that matter...
Donwon, if I can prove this, can I have an Rsx too?









_Modified by herbehop at 8:04 PM 9-15-2005_

If we're going to talk about road course racing, it's even farther in Hondas favor. The suspension design in our cars is ancient and it just doesn't work. If you're beating higher end Hondas on a road course, the Honda driver simply couldn't drive. Even R32s handle like crap compared to what I'm used to. I wouldn't hesitate to race DONWONs car around a road course in my S2000 when it was STOCK. It's apples to oranges in terms of suspension design and geometry. Hell, I would be willing to bet a stock Integra type R would beat my GTI around a road course as it is now. I'm speaking from experiance here. I have track time at Road Atlanta, VIR, and Laguna Seca in my S2000. I don't think anyone in here would claim there GTI could hang with an S2000 around a road course unless the S2000 owner simply couldn't drive.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

I have to disagree on that statement you made about running mid 12s at 115mph with 500whp. You'd had to be a terrible driver to put out those numbers. In fact I have an hpaTT R32 and dynoed at 462whp and we ran an 11.62 at 119mph and our cars weight is practically the same. Id say that with good tiresand a good driver you could easily pull off 11.8 w/ 500whp.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

the 265hp spoon s2000s are the ones that are sold to the public - not the race trim...also, their race version is 300hp all-motor, let me know how many 300hp all-motor, oh yea - and 2L of displacement...
Don't get me wrong, i live and breathe vw, but i don't have some kind of blind faith that it can overcome anything on the track with the right amound of hp...thats not true. 
and that website is a joke by the way, please let me know where you input traction, gear ratios, *driving ability* and so on into that "calculator"















You were just saying you don't like quarter mile racing two seconds ago yet you brought it right up in an attempt to prove me wrong...
you need to open your eyes a little bit, 
edit- people beat me to the punch


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_I have to disagree on that statement you made about running mid 12s at 115mph with 500whp. You'd had to be a terrible driver to put out those numbers. In fact I have an hpaTT R32 and dynoed at 462whp and we ran an 11.62 at 119mph and our cars weight is practically the same. Id say that with good tiresand a good driver you could easily pull off 11.8 w/ 500whp. 

AWD vs FWD. The R32 has a HUGE advantage. On top of that, DONWONs car is full of other heavy stuff. His car probably weighs at least 100 pounds more than an R32 and is only FWD. if a well driven 462whp R32 ran a mid 11, DONWON's car will go no faster than mid 12. I'd be willing to bet money. Hopefully we'll soon see.


_Modified by Flite at 6:30 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_I love this instant e-mail reply system. This is from the Honda Forums *265 HP for the Spoon S2000 *! 
This is turning into name your favorite Honda thread. 
13.8 I guess is not bad for the S2000. Since we are in the VW Forums what would be a suitable match for this vehicle. A modified S2000 VS a modified Audi TT? This is from HPA *ZillamoTTo ran an 11.52 @ 126.71 mph*!! 13.8-11.52 might be a long way off so now I have to get the web page with the HP calculator to see what car has the advantage!! I don't know








OK this is what I did! I used this web page:*http://www.turbonetics.com.au/ATS_info_estet.htm* for the calculations. I used 4000 _(we know that the car doesn't weigh that much)_ pounds and 500 WHP for the AUDI TT and gotten 11.6 (HPA has 650 WHP on there 2nd video and 500 on the dyno chart) I added alittle weight and did not give them the max power on there video. There R32 makes more power with the same motor








Now the S2000 came in at 265 WHP and I gave it 3000 pounds and came up with 13.0. To me that is close to a 1 1/2 second difference plus not knowing the exact weight I made the AUDI a little fatter. There is close to the 300 HP difference and the proof is in the math the S2000 will not pass the Audi.
Just keep in mind both are 2 seaters, have rear wheel drive axles, and Flite's huge HP difference!! I guess that we won't be getting those Acura's any time soon









watch this. I don't want to hear anything else about what kind of times a website says.
http://media.putfile.com/records2kruns98
Keep in mind that S2000 is on street tires, a stock transmission, and full weight. First gear in an S2000 is also good for nearly 50mph which makes launching a pain in the ass. You compared a fully built turbo 3.2l AWD TT to a basic bolt on, rear wheel drive S2000. It's funny how when I post a video of a comparibly modded S2000 how even the tables become, and on top of that, the S2000 handles like a Ferrari.
Also, my HUGE HP DIFFERENCE was between a FWD VR6 Jetta or GTI, and a comparible RSX. You're using different cars to support your arguement.


_Modified by Flite at 6:39 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_All bets are off when you start talking about swapped cars. I'm talking more about our MKIVs which are incredible overweight.


Lol the 12sec hondas your talking about are usually swapped. We both know that the really fast hondas that are making 200whp and still fast are EG hatches with b18cs or b20s or some b16's. Now none of those motors came stock in those cars. So I was figuring you were tlaking about swapped cars. I was going tit for tat. Because a B series honda, say a 00 civic SI making 200whp isnt running 12's. Because they arent light either. Now if your talking 12second hondas that are only making 200whp, then your talking EG hatches with a b series or a k series in them
Ive seen what a k20a or k20a2 can do in a eg hatch and is only making 220whp ( for those who dont, with just the swap, bolt ons and slicks they can run mid 11's). But I cant think of a SI coupe that ran 12's with 200whp(or even one that was lightly gutted) for that matter.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

My wife's ex boyfriend has a '96 coupe (not hatch), full weight that ran 12.7 on 196 fwhp.


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_My wife's ex boyfriend has a '96 coupe (not hatch), full weight that ran 12.7 on 196 fwhp.

lol still talking eg. those weigh less then mk3's when fully loaded. Is it an ex,dx,cx? That makes a difference too....


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_My wife's ex boyfriend has a '96 coupe (not hatch), full weight that ran 12.7 on 196 fwhp.

Also i bet those times are on slicks


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Well then here, I ran a best of 13.7 @ 104 in my turbo 24V GTI on street tires. That was at 10psi and with a very good (for street tires) 2.1 60ft. One of my best friends ran a 13.6 in an RSX type S with I/H/E, Hondata manifold spacer, and Hondata. He dynoed at 218fwhp. I'm up 80whp on him, and my back seats are out. He was full weight. He also cuts 2.2 60 fts at best.
This supports my original statement to a "T". Obviously at lower hp number the gap will widen. The claim that it will take a VW 100 extra hp to keep up with an RSX obviously isn't true if the VW only makes 200hp. My statement was that if his car makes 500whp, it will take an RSX S 100hp less to keep up with him. It wasn't a blanket statement that ALL Hondas can beat ALL VW/Audis with a 100hp defecit. But, as the horsepower numbers rise, it becomes apparent that the RSX is a far more efficient car to race than a GTI/Jetta is. Just look at the results stock for stock. Both the RSX type S and 24V GTI have the same manufacturers hp rating, but the RSX is nearly a second quicker in the 1/4.



_Modified by Flite at 9:02 PM 9-15-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Again I'm not a fan of 1/4 mile racing!! But like I said before it's just a HP calculator on the web this was not taken at the track! There are a lot of mk2 and mk1 with massive motor swaps that will do a Honda quick. But, let's talk about the mk4 that will do a Honda dirty!! There are too many variables in 1/4 mile racing that is why I don't like it. 
Since these cars are superior to the ones in this forum then I'll leave it at that.
Hondas Rule and I'll stand in line to pick up the next S2000!!
Any one wants to purchase a 200 WHP 12 second Honda? Just tell me where to buy one and I'll post pics of it later!!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Again I'm not a fan of 1/4 mile racing!! But like I said before it's just a HP calculator on the web this was not taken at the track! There are a lot of mk2 and mk1 with massive motor swaps that will do a Honda quick. But, let's talk about the mk4 that will do a Honda dirty!! There are too many variables in 1/4 mile racing that is why I don't like it. 
Since these cars are superior to the ones in this forum then I'll leave it at that.
Hondas Rule and I'll stand in line to pick up the next S2000!!
Any one wants to purchase a 200 WHP 12 second Honda? Just tell me where to buy one and I'll post pics of it later!!

I'm getting a headache try to cypher your posts into a language I speak. I'm done argueing with you. The bottom line, for your original question about RSXs.... Dollar for dollar, pound for pound, hp for hp, and RSX type S will beat a 24V VR6 GTI/Jetta all day long in WHATEVER kind of racing it is you claim to do.
Now, back to the original post, go ahead and buy that Tec system. Hell, with your vast technical knowledge go ahead and tune it yourself. And while you make fun of Hondas and their "NOS stickers", you go right ahead and throw a big ol' "TECIII" sticker right above your BMW fenders


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Flite you are so sensitive like a hour of *Oprah*! 
When you go Tec 3 stand alone and all that other stuff with your Technical Knowledge of Hondas why waste your money? 
For the amount of cash that you and I both are putting into the motor alone why continue when we have no chance against Hondas!!
Currently for what I have invested to build this machine I could have paid off a ACURA RSX in cash. Cars are not my only thing that I concern my self in fact I just treat it as a hobby. That is whey I really don't care too much about alot of the 2 FAST 2 FURIOUS jargon on the Forums. I would never argue with you about cars that you and I don't own! I just wanted to know of what a Acura can do and as of know we talked about the S2000. There are differences between the cars and a car that will out pull another car with 300 less WHP is something I have to see. If the cars were evenly matched FWD or AWD then there has to be something seriously wrong with VW's for that to be happening. Weight can be adjusted I like my car with all of it's heavy stuff. There is more than 100 pounds in MDF + lights alone in my car and I can put money on it that there are very few Hondas putting on there left turn signal behind me on the autobahn or the race track.
I will place myself a order for that S2000 that you miss so much !! For me that car is the ugliest out of all the roadsters but, that's just me. That BMW Z4 is pretty hot! Why am I messing with Jettas?


----------



## Jcr1982 (Jul 18, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
I'm getting a headache try to cypher your posts into a language I speak.
And while you make fun of Hondas and their "NOS stickers", you go right ahead and throw a big ol' "TECIII" sticker right above your BMW fenders










LOL The flames are so bad in here it scorched me all the way from the regional threads


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

any new pics of your nice car collection, i loved the ones u posted up before?
anyways ive called eip couple times before and they said that their stage 2 cars run fine, wtf then, i told them about some issues going on with them (flatspot) etc. and they said they knew nothing about it, but this call was over 2months ago, so maybe things changed?
any info on what im talking about?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_any new pics of your nice car collection, i loved the ones u posted up before?
anyways ive called eip couple times before and they said that their stage 2 cars run fine, wtf then, i told them about some issues going on with them (flatspot) etc. and they said they knew nothing about it, but this call was over 2months ago, so maybe things changed?
any info on what im talking about?

That's funny they would say that 2 months ago. I've been complaining about it nearly since the day I got it running. They know about it. I've also been told well over 2 months ago that they knew what was causing it and they had a fix for it that would be available within a couple weeks.
My advice honestly, if you have the money to turbo your car, call HPA up and do a grass roots kit. That, or buy the EIP kit but be prepared to shell out another couple grand to get it running right.
DONWON, apparently English isn't your primary language and that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that. However, English is the only language I speak so I'm having a very rough time comprehending what it is you are trying to type. I will say though that I never said "300 hp less", I said 100. I also never said it as a blanket statement for all VW/Audi products. As far as me getting another S2000, I would have by now, but I decided I'm going to wait until I pay off the rest of my wife's Audi and buy an Elise. An S2000 is a sports car. More so than a Z4, a Boxter, or a TT, an S2000 is a sports car. I miss having a sports car. A VW GTI will never be a sports car, and I'm quickly getting over it. As far as your opinion that S2000s are the ugliest....well, seeing your car makes me seriously question your taste in automobiles. I'm done with this thread. You are one of the very people that give VW owners a bad name in my book. The more I read your rediculous posts, the more I hate the VW community as a whole. I don't want to be a "hater" so I'm out of here. Have fun with your stage 3 upgrades, let us know where you end up placing your "TECIII" stickers.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

Tommorrow we will be going to the dyno and see exactly what numbers the eip Stage 2 can produce at 17psi. I really doubt that it will make more than 400whp+ as they claim, but lets see what happens. After the dyno we will be going stand alone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (rickypr)*

Does anyone know of a good cluch kit that will hold 500+whp?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_Tommorrow we will be going to the dyno and see exactly what numbers the eip Stage 2 can produce at 17psi. I really doubt that it will make more than 400whp+ as they claim, but lets see what happens. After the dyno we will be going stand alone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Start a new thread with your dyno results when you get done on the dyno. I'd also say to reset your ECU, do a run, and then do some subsequent runs to see what exactly is happening with the "flat spot". I'd keep a close eye on your a/f ratio too. Mine is is the mid 13s which would have me pretty uncomfortable running 17psi. I'm scared to run 12psi.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Thanks for the tips, I'll do so and then post a couple dyno runs tommorrow.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_Thanks for the tips, I'll do so and then post a couple dyno runs tommorrow.

Just a guess, but I'm going to say that right after you reset your ECU, you'll have a damn near flawless dyno run. Your a/f might be a little lean but I would hope you're not doing a 17psi run on pump gas so you should be safe. After the first couple runs, I'm going to guess you'll start to a dip right around 3500 rpms where the car pulls timing and susequently pulls fuel and your a/f ratio gets into the high 13s or even 14s range. The more pulls you do, the worse it will get. Keep us posted.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_Sometimes you go to the track in your 500whp monster turbo VR6 and get beat by a 200whp all motor civic


That is what you said on the first page of this thread!! I don't think that alone I would bring you to hate VW's you might hate them after you read your own threads and say to your self (I STILL miss my S2000....)!! *ALL ENGLISH*
This is a interesting thread. The car is being built and maybe I might have a ride worth talking about. If 17 PSI would bring you to over 400WHP to me that seems very good. I still wonder about the programming and the HP claim that EIP does have on there web site!! If they are making changes so that the cars will produce the performance that they said then why are you going stand alone? Once there are greatly improved results coming from the stand alone system then I'll get one. I want to try the programming from know tuners of this motor before I get into the stand alone. As of now I still didn't have any recommended parts or specs on what a stage 3 will consist of! If anyone really can give me some help then this is what I need :
The Bosch part # of the injectors that VF-Engineering are using.
Stand Alone Engine Management company in Germany.
And last alot of fingers crossed hoping that this thing will hang with Hondas!!
_Modified by DONWON at 1:46 AM 9-17-2005_


_Modified by DONWON at 1:48 AM 9-17-2005_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*



DONWON said:


> The Bosch part # of the injectors that VF-Engineering are using.
> *This may not be the ideal part for your setup...*
> Stand Alone Engine Management company in Germany.
> DTA P8PRO, http://www.dtafast.co.uk/ I'm sure there is someone using it in Germany...Just call them up and find out...


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

*Hey thanks for that much needed INFO!!!* I will get in contact with Bosch in the morning and place my order! I'm currently researching the net for a tuner that car do the TEC 3 from EIP Tuning. Since there are not very many companies using it here I have to look for someone here who has done it! If the car has to go away over 3 hours away for work then I'll consider shipping it to the states to have the work done and done wright! If there is anymore advice on what I should do with this project then just let me know. I will give it some thought as to who has done it and was it a good upgrade. 
Thank You


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

It was not a good day at the dyno,. I got there and when we did our first pass at 17psi,the fuel pressure regulator got busted and read more than 230 psi. The best numbers I got that rich in fuel was 332whp. I cant belive that the eip fpr jammed, but thats another story. Anyways tommorrow I'll buy another fpr and go back to the dyno. I want to do these dyno runs before I put the injectors and microtech computer. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_It was not a good day at the dyno,. I got there and when we did our first pass at 17psi,the fuel pressure regulator got busted and read more than 230 psi. The best numbers I got that rich in fuel was 332whp. I cant belive that the eip fpr jammed, but thats another story. Anyways tommorrow I'll buy another fpr and go back to the dyno. I want to do these dyno runs before I put the injectors and microtech computer. I'll keep you posted.

My first FPR was a piece of **** too. I had to send it back and get a replacement. EIP covered it, but it pissed me off. It stuck wide open driving down the interstate one day. I barely made it home. You should have seen how much unburned crap came out of the back of the car when I get the new one in. Check your plugs too. Mine fouled out when my FPR got stuck.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

How long did it take for them to replace it? Im thinking i should buy it from another manufacturer, any recomendations?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*

The second one I got from them they sent me before I even sent the first one back. I just called them, told them what happened, and they sent another one. I sent the old one back the next day. I haven't had any problems with the new one.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Those dyno numbers are very close to mines!! On my dyno sheet the car was at 340 on 5 cylinders (250 KW). So lets start to track some problems! What should I look for with the Fuel Pressure Regulator? Is there excess smoke or something else happening with the car? And also is this one of those parts that have to replaced every few miles? On 17 psi would this had anything to do with the FPR in normal driving? I glad that you posted the results and the problem that you had on the Dyno. this will give me some insight on what might happen soon to my car also!


----------



## platinumedVR6 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

i agree about the suspension on our cars. i hate it. i wish it was better but oh well, the rear axle beam is crap in my opinion.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

DONWON and Rickypr, you are having totally different issues. DONWON, you only made the power you did because at some point you probably went too lean and detonated to te point that you lost compression in one of your cylinders. You were therefore only making power frm 5 of your cylinders. Rickypr on the otherhand got a stuck FPR which caused the car to run overly rich. That won't hurt anything, it's just too much fuel.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Hey I know exactly what you mean! I was doing some research to see what could have caused soo many problems with the car. The only thing that I came up with was that the Tuner was BAD. I believe that everything should have checked and rechecked not only by EIP but also by the VR6-Specialist. I don't want anyone else to rebuild there motor due to bad tuning or bad fuel pressure regulators!! I was very pleased with the short term results of the turbo kit and now that this is a ongoing post between members of the vortex we all are starting to see some problem areas!!


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Spoke w/ EIP this morning and they told me that they have to inspect the damaged FPR before sending me a replacement or fixing it. Apparently it looks like EIP has some preference with some customers than others. I'll bet whatever, that it will take them couple weeks or maybe a month to have the FPR delivered. So my only option is to buy a new one, incredible!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_Spoke w/ EIP this morning and they told me that they have to inspect the damaged FPR before sending me a replacement or fixing it. Apparently it looks like EIP has some preference with some customers than others. I'll bet whatever, that it will take them couple weeks or maybe a month to have the FPR delivered. So my only option is to buy a new one, incredible!









that is inaccurate, the turn around seems to be pretty quick on broken fprs...
reference post...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2
this guy shipped his out on the 9th...got it back on the 13th...thats not a bad turnaround...


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

Where is Rich? I think that he should come in and join the fun.


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

The real reason why Im so mad is that when I first got the kit the FPR was backordered. I had to wait for the kit for a couple of monthse and the for the FPR for about a another month. On top of that the FPR they sent me after all the hassle ect.. did not look new, it had a couple of scratches and smelled like gasoline. The issue is that I have a broken FPR and I can afford to wait for EIP to deliver whenever they can do so.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_The real reason why Im so mad is that when I first got the kit the FPR was backordered. I had to wait for the kit for a couple of monthse and the for the FPR for about a another month. On top of that the FPR they sent me after all the hassle ect.. did not look new, it had a couple of scratches and smelled like gasoline. The issue is that I have a broken FPR and I can afford to wait for EIP to deliver whenever they can do so. 

They probably sent you my old FPR that stuck closed on me. If it had some scratches on it, I bet it was mine. 
Par for the course I guess. I've tried and tried to maintain good relations but it's becoming increasingly difficult.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

dam it suck for u guys i wish that when i buy the kit in the future or if i will at all (because i would kinda desire awd and 12's and something that can put the power to the ground like the b5 s4's or r32's) that the kits problems would be solved and solid numbers could be shown along with nice 1/4 times(like hpa systems) and can someone please explain why the only car running fine and putting down 410to the wheels is the one on eips website and the car isnt even on the vortex? seems very weird!


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_dam it suck for u guys i wish that when i buy the kit in the future or if i will at all (because i would kinda desire awd and 12's and something that can put the power to the ground like the b5 s4's or r32's) that the kits problems would be solved and solid numbers could be shown along with nice 1/4 times(like hpa systems) and can someone please explain why *the only car running fine and putting down 410to the wheels is the one on eips website and the car isnt even on the vortex? seems very weird!*

Hey I'm still trying to figure that out also!! There is something wrong and now things are starting to show up on the Vortex.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
Par for the course I guess. I've tried and tried to maintain good relations but it's becoming increasingly difficult.

I have had a good relationship with them thus far and you have supported them in the past, it is a shame that they can't/won't fix the problem...
If I were you, I would feel the same way...Perhaps a little more over the phone pressure is needed







Whenever I call them to take care of somethiing they have a pretty rapid response and its strange that you haven't had the same

_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_ can someone please explain why the only car running fine and putting down 410to the wheels is the one on eips website and the car isnt even on the vortex? seems very weird!

My guess would be this, they had the oppurtunity to tune the car themselves...They probably could fix Flite's issue if the car was at their shop but that obviously isn't possible...


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_ can someone please explain why the only car running fine and putting down 410to the wheels is the one on eips website and the car isnt even on the vortex? seems very weird!
 
My car is on their website and I am on vortex. I also have 29000 daily driven miles with the kit and things are going well. While vortex is a huge forum, not every VW enthusiast is here. Tuning a high performance car has a ton of variables in the equation. Not every car is going to make the same power. 
Sorry to still hear of your frustrations flite and donwon. Have either of you spoke with Rich or JJ directly. If not, give them a hollar and leave a message if they are not available. They are the true developers of the kit and may have more insight to the fine tuning of your cars. Both have been great to deal with in my eyes and went out of their way to give me the warm and fuzzies before taking the plunge. Good luck and keep us posted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by pl2950 at 11:14 PM 9-19-2005_


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Well today is the third day that I've had to change plugs on my car for the 3rd time, so i just went ahead and an aeromotive fpr. The ratio is 1:1 for when I put the micro and injectors. Anyways I will be going to the dyno this weeek before installing these parts. I'll keep you posted.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rickypr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pl2950* »_ 
My car is on their website and I am on vortex. I also have 29000 daily driven miles with the kit and things are going well. While vortex is a huge forum, not every VW enthusiast is here. Tuning a high performance car has a ton of variables in the equation. Not every car is going to make the same power. 
Sorry to still hear of your frustrations flite and donwon. Have either of you spoke with Rich or JJ directly. If not, give them a hollar and leave a message if they are not available. They are the true developers of the kit and may have more insight to the fine tuning of your cars. Both have been great to deal with in my eyes and went out of their way to give me the warm and fuzzies before taking the plunge. Good luck and keep us posted. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by pl2950 at 11:14 PM 9-19-2005_

My issue is that I live in Hawaii. I try to make contact via their Emales because of the time difference. Like I said, before I was havng these issues it was no problem, but since I've started to really learn what the issues are and why they're their, I haven't heard from them. I'm going out on my own, out my own pocket well over $1000 to get the kit running the way it's advertised to run already. This frustrates the hell out of me.

_Quote, originally posted by *rickypr* »_Well today is the third day that I've had to change plugs on my car for the 3rd time, so i just went ahead and an aeromotive fpr. The ratio is 1:1 for when I put the micro and injectors. Anyways I will be going to the dyno this weeek before installing these parts. I'll keep you posted.

So, you're not going to make a dyno run on EIPs softwear? You can't run a 1:1 FPR with the turbo so I assume this is the case. I was really hoping to see what kind of numbers you would put down with their softwear. If you got a faulty FPR, just send it back for a refund. Their kits are supposed to be covered under a warrantee of some kind.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (pl2950)*

Hey pl2950 do you have the stage 2? I think that the most of us here has the stage 2 that should be making somewhere around 400 HP!! I'm very far from that goal and it's costing me a rebuild. For the stage 1 it should be with the head gasket and the same WHP (300-350). I honestly think that the stage 2 should include more parts I.E. Bigger injectors and Motor mounts. Since so far all of the stage 1's are making the same power as the stage 2 the head gasket should be included just to run the motor safe. There is still time for them to correct the kit and offer something better for the current customer problems outside of the EIP shop in Maryland!! I don't know who has a stage 1 but I just wonder are they having the same problems as the stage 2? And also does any one running the stage 1 have a independant dyno sheet that they did?


_Modified by DONWON at 3:52 AM 9-20-2005_


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

My car is a stage 1 and running stock compression. The car dynoed at 318.5whp at 10 psi. I dont think you will see a stage 1 make much more than that with out an electronic boost controller. I went with stage 1 because I am not a track guy and just wanted more fun on my daily commutes. EIP did my install and my tuning as I only live about 45minutes to an hour away from them. Hopefully you guys will get your cars figured out. I am sure a conversation directly with Rich or JJ will help.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (pl2950)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pl2950* »_My car is a stage 1 and running stock compression. The car dynoed at 318.5whp at 10 psi. I dont think you will see a stage 1 make much more than that with out an electronic boost controller. I went with stage 1 because I am not a track guy and just wanted more fun on my daily commutes. EIP did my install and my tuning as I only live about 45minutes to an hour away from them. Hopefully you guys will get your cars figured out. I am sure a conversation directly with Rich or JJ will help. 

In nearly a year it hasn't helped. Hopefully something will get done soon. It's on EIP to do something about it now. I've already pursued my own fix because of the lack of results from EIP. I would really hope they fix the issue and do something to save face. The rest of the kit is top notch. I'll give credit where it's due, but the softwear is a joke.


----------



## BadassVW (Oct 16, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*

Anyone who lays out this kinda green on a dub has more money than common sense


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

I totally feel the same way and Im almost sure that our stage 2 is well overrated from what it is in reality. All the parts included in the kit are pretty good but as for the softwear and FPR http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (rickypr)*

Oh and one thing I forgot to mention, the stock intake manifold starts to inflate/deflate once you go higher than 15psi+, so this means that eventually we are all going to have to purchase a better one. I know HPA sells it for $1000 bucks, so this means more money to get the kit runing as it should.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (BadassVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BadassVW* »_Anyone who lays out this kinda green on a dub has more money than common sense
























In retrospect, you are 100% correct.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (BadassVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BadassVW* »_Anyone who lays out this kinda green on a dub has more money than common sense
























You are so write!! I could have brought another 24v VR6 Jetta with the amount of money already invested and still have cash to play with!!







.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (BadassVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BadassVW* »_Anyone who lays out this kinda green on a dub has more money than common sense
























I also agree...Don't get me wrong- i love my car- but I could have put a killer payment on an Evo for the amount I invested this summer alone...








its too late now to even think about it -
i think part of me is saying this is because im getting used to the new found HP....
time for another upgrade


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm buying an Elise, so the pain of this car will be gone soon enough


----------



## BadassVW (Oct 16, 2002)

*Re: (herbehop)*

the EVO's kick serious arse!
not as "smooooooth" interior wise but definately a
much better car if you're looking for performance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

can't go wrong with an Elise, though it's a not a very practical daily driver.... no storage..... 2 passenger (SMALL passengers) and questionable dealer/parts support network.



_Modified by BadassVW at 5:48 PM 9-20-2005_


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (BadassVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BadassVW* »_
can't go wrong with an Elise, though it's a not a very practical daily driver.... no storage..... 2 passenger (SMALL passengers) and questionable dealer/parts support network.


I've still got the Audi for practicality. And dealer support has never been a huge concern. I don't think I've ever kept a warrantee on a car past about 6 months.


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Comparing a 24v golf or jetta to an Evo is silly. The Evo is an all wheel drive rally car that costs over 30k. The car handles like a dream but can be difficult to drive. It also is rough around the edges and lacks refinement. It also only puts out 278hp at the crank. The sticker on 24v VW's (which no one pays) is around 25k. When you add a stage 1 turbo kit you are around the cost of an Evo. The car now throws down 318.5 hp to the wheels. That is almost 100hp more than an Evo and will easily pull on an Evo from a roll. I guess if you are into racing drag or track, the Evo maybe more worth it to you due to its awd platform and race ready components. However, if you are a daily driver who enjoys roll-on power, playing some on the roads, and keeping some refinement, I think the VW is a much better choice. Let's face it, a FWD car is not ever going to be a "race" car. If you bought a vw, you wanted a solid more refined car that has some class. VW's are heavy and not the best platform to get the best time at the track. If you want to compare an Evo to a VW, compare it to the r32. They are about the same price stock and offer AWD. From there you can begin to discuss each cars potential and ability to be a "Track" car. Sorry for the rant but an Evo and a GTI or GLI dont really compare. 



_Modified by pl2950 at 9:13 PM 9-20-2005_


----------



## BadassVW (Oct 16, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*

what is parts availability/supply like? Even though it uses a toyota drivetrain...how many components can you get from Pep Boy's or even a local Toyota dealership?
Sooner or later you're going to be at the mercy of a very limited dealer support structure. 
What if you're local dealer ends up being all aholish over warranty items, etc... where is the next dealer that will be willing to work on it?
If it's only a weekend driver and you can afford to let it sit, should it breakdown, then that's one thing...but as a primary daily driver?
nope, not me, been there...done that








I'd buy a Miata or the new Solstice and dump a few grand into it and have a fairly nimble car that is far easier and less expensive to maintain properly.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (BadassVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BadassVW* »_what is parts availability/supply like? Even though it uses a toyota drivetrain...how many components can you get from Pep Boy's or even a local Toyota dealership?
Sooner or later you're going to be at the mercy of a very limited dealer support structure. 
What if you're local dealer ends up being all aholish over warranty items, etc... where is the next dealer that will be willing to work on it?
If it's only a weekend driver and you can afford to let it sit, should it breakdown, then that's one thing...but as a primary daily driver?
nope, not me, been there...done that








I'd buy a Miata or the new Solstice and dump a few grand into it and have a fairly nimble car that is far easier and less expensive to maintain properly.



Well therein lies the difference between you and me. I have no problem driving every day in a sports car. Hell when I had my S2000, for almost 2 years it was the only car I had. Even when I did get something else, it was a CRX that was FAR FAR from a daily driver. An elise is no less practical than an S2000 really and like I've said, now I have an Audi as well. Also, I live in Hawaii. There is in fact only one Lotus dealer on the island. Hell, there's only two Audi and VW dealers as well. Your choices for a dealership are pretty limited no matter what you buy. I don't know what the Pep Boys comment means either. We don't have pep boys out here. If I ever work on my cars, I do it with factory parts. You can buy parts directly from your dealer and do the work yourself you know. As far as a Miata or Solstice...well that's just silly to compare them to an Elise to me. Pump whatever money you want to into one of those and you may beat an Elise on paper, but there's far more to a car than paper racing.


----------



## BadassVW (Oct 16, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*

pep boy's comment was used to illustrate you can't go to a generic autoparts store and get parts, nothing more








Are you saying a S2000 (another cool car!) compares to an Elise with regards to reliability and/or parts availability?
You don't think a Miata or Solstice with a massaged suspension/engine can hang with an Elise? ...and most likely for thousands less!

I've seen modified Miata's smoke stock 911's on tight roadcourses.
While acknowledging an Elise is more "Kart" oriented (from a handling perspective) than a 911, I'd still bet I could buy a brand new miata and dump the difference (vs. for what I'd pay for an Elise) and have a car that will lap faster, while giving up little in driveability/reliability to an Elise.
As far as "bench racing" goes ...Ever read grassroots motorsports? 
Aloha!


----------



## BEAU-SOF (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: (BadassVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BadassVW* »_pep boy's comment was used to illustrate you can't go to a generic autoparts store and get parts, nothing more








Are you saying a S2000 (another cool car!) compares to an Elise with regards to reliability and/or parts availability?
You don't think a Miata or Solstice with a massaged suspension/engine can hang with an Elise? ...and most likely for thousands less!

I've seen modified Miata's smoke stock 911's on tight roadcourses.
While acknowledging an Elise is more "Kart" oriented (from a handling perspective) than a 911, I'd still bet I could buy a brand new miata and dump the difference (vs. for what I'd pay for an Elise) and have a car that will lap faster, while giving up little in driveability/reliability to an Elise.
As far as "bench racing" goes ...Ever read grassroots motorsports? 
Aloha!


















this is waaay off subject peeps.... and to end this i will say please research the cars before passing judgment because as much as i myself downplay a miata, unfortunately badass is right.. off the lot they are very formidable in the curves... a properly modded suspension and very little engine work will at worse keep on par with a lotus(speaking of the new turbo model). if i was force to make a choice between the 3 i would choose the miata simply cause of dollar value... the lotus is a dam fine acheivement considering it will smoke most cars pushing double the power.. but the other cars stated have the potential to do the same for the same reason: lightweight compact package with good power.
the solace i beleive is going to initially skyrocket pricewise cause thats what punk a$$ dealers do. so i would hold off on that car for a while...
ok definately done here in regards to which car beats what... DONWON how goes progress??


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (BEAU-SOF)*

Here are some more pics of the work in Holland!!
























































It looks like he's polishing just about everything on the motor and redoing the throttle body!!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *BEAU-SOF* »_

this is waaay off subject peeps.... and to end this i will say please research the cars before passing judgment because as much as i myself downplay a miata, unfortunately badass is right.. off the lot they are very formidable in the curves... a properly modded suspension and very little engine work will at worse keep on par with a lotus(speaking of the new turbo model). if i was force to make a choice between the 3 i would choose the miata simply cause of dollar value... the lotus is a dam fine acheivement considering it will smoke most cars pushing double the power.. but the other cars stated have the potential to do the same for the same reason: lightweight compact package with good power.
the solace i beleive is going to initially skyrocket pricewise cause thats what punk a$$ dealers do. so i would hold off on that car for a while...
ok definately done here in regards to which car beats what... DONWON how goes progress??

I know it's off subject, but I never disagreed with him. Miatas handle great. They're honestly one of the most fun cars I've driven. I know what a modded Miata is capable of. All I said is that there is far more to a car than the numbers it puts down on paper. For a few thousand bucks you can make a Miata do everything an Elise can do (except make you look heterosexual). There is more to a car than that though. It's about driving satisfaction, and pride of ownership. A Miata will NEVER equal an Elise in that department. Also, you don't have to do anything to an Elise to make it perform that well. If I couldn't afford an Elise and wanted that type of car I would look into a Miata. But I think I just may be willing to fork over the dough for an Elise. If not, I'll buy another S2000. You can buy a 10 year old Miata and make it perform as well as an Elise for a few thousand bucks. But there is a reason one costs almost $50k and one cost less than $10k. Go drive them both and you'll see the difference.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_
It looks like he's polishing just about everything on the motor and redoing the throttle body!! 



If you're going stnd alone, you have to "redo" the throttle body. He'd be switching to a cable throttle


----------



## BadassVW (Oct 16, 2002)

*Re: (Flite)*

love the miata hetro reference...nice! Did you not make the cut on the football team ...again? 
put a 13B in a gutted Miata and paint that facker pink for all I care because I'd be one Elise lapping SOB at the track... and that's the only thing that counts when talking what defines a real "performance" car.
Have you driven an S2000 with a CompTech centrifugal package?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (BadassVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BadassVW* »_love the miata hetro reference...nice! Did you not make the cut on the football team ...again? 
put a 13B in a gutted Miata and paint that facker pink for all I care because I'd be one Elise lapping SOB at the track... and that's the only thing that counts when talking what defines a real "performance" car.
Have you driven an S2000 with a CompTech centrifugal package?

I'm not going to continue the modded car vs. stock car discussion. You can mod almost any car to the point that it will beat almost any other car. The "hetero" thing was a joke as well. Some buddies of mine back home just finished up a monster Miata with a 383 stroker that puts down just under 400whp and weighs only about 50 pounds more than a stock Miata. Miatas are cool little cars, they're just not for me.
As for the s/ced S2000, yes I have. I've driven almost every configuration of S2000 there is. Stock, BPU, s/ced, turboed, turboed with a built motor, rediculous ITB all motor setups, etc. I was REALLY into the S2000 scene for a long time. 
::edit:: This is funny. I'm currently posting in a thread on Honda-Tech about VWs, and in a thread on VWVortex about Hondas. haha


_Modified by Flite at 7:29 PM 9-21-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

OK I have some more pics of the car to post!!


----------



## Got 24v (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: (DONWON)*

hmmm wonder why EIP hasn't chimed in yet........? EIP any word on software, solution to these problems??


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Got 24v)*

Has anyone been to this Website yet? http://www.pagparts.com/perfpt...d=235
They sell 24v VR6 turbo exhaust manifolds for $575!!


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Got 24v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Got 24v* »_hmmm wonder why EIP hasn't chimed in yet........? EIP any word on software, solution to these problems??

yes, it is to be satisfied with the proven 318.5whp stage 1 and buy my car







. 
All kidding aside, my bet is that they need a local stage 2 car to spend time on or they are baffled because the installs they have done are problem free. I also bet that Rich hasnt seen this thread because he searches "EIP" and that is not in the subject of the thread so it does come up on his "radar".


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Has anyone been to this Website yet? http://www.pagparts.com/perfpt...d=235
They sell 24v VR6 turbo exhaust manifolds for $575!!

I have zero problem with EIPs turbo manifold. It's actually a pretty damn nice piece.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Here are some more Pics of the rebuild. VR6-Specialist has coustom fabricated a heat shield over the turbo housing + polished it!!


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Looks like someone is finally doin the car right http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*

This is great!! Now I have photos of the motor back in the car!!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

do you have an eta to when they are going to start this thing up?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

No ETA yet. I want a finish date also. Something is going to happen to where as I won't get the car back until Christmas time!!!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

updates?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

Is this motor running yet or what?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

This is what I have from the last time that I spoke to the shop in Holland Monday. The car will be entered into a VW show 10K's from his shop (running) on the 16 Sept. I tried to order the Bosch injectors but the numbers are wrong or missing. Vr6-Specialist told me he was going to use 3 different solutions to test with the car. He told me he had the EIP injectors but they were too big, R32 injectors if they will fit, and last some modified 12v / 24v injectors. He told me the EIP injectors would inject too much fuel during idol so he will have to use a smaller fuel pressure regulator.
I want the car to make 500 + WHP due to the amount of money and almost 7 months invested into the project. Before I pick up the car I will have a dyno to see if the cylinder pressure is holding and also how much boost is running through the motor.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_ He told me the EIP injectors would inject too much fuel during idol so he will have to use a smaller fuel pressure regulator.

EIP doesn't use aftermarket injectors with stage II...They are stock injectors running a higher Fuel Pressure via. FPR


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
EIP doesn't use aftermarket injectors with stage II...They are stock injectors running a higher Fuel Pressure via. FPR

*I am aware of that!! *
What is trying to be done is with the new parts and running a more adjustable fueling system with bigger injectors then the car will run a safer air / fuel ratio. Also, I wanted to change the injectors for the extra WHP. VF has some kind of top secrete injectors and the other companies I just don't know what they use. 
If anyone can help me get bigger injectors for the 24v PLEASE REPLY! One person posted the Bosch injectors that VF was supposed to use but, the numbers did not match anything at the Bosch repair shop. Currently, I just have to settle with the stock injectors and set the boost very low.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

http://pagparts.com/perfpts1.a...d=229


----------



## Got 24v (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: (Flite)*

will those fit properly on the 24v?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Got 24v)*

I just gotten some more information on injectors. Seimens sells injectors for the 24v VR6. Rothe-motorsports told me he has them on stock. I really would like to find them my self so that I can post on the Vortex where to look.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

I hope you are doing custom software...
If EIP's software doesn't work - I really don't think you can say anything negative...You are messing with the setup to meet your own specs...
Especially with changing the injector size...


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (Got 24v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Got 24v* »_will those fit properly on the 24v?

yes


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_I hope you are doing custom software...
If EIP's software doesn't work - I really don't think you can say anything negative...You are messing with the setup to meet your own specs...
Especially with changing the injector size...

*I'm not doing the set-up to meet my own specs!!* Because of bad tuning, faulty sauder, hose clamps, melted wires, and a list of other tuning issues I was forced to do a rebuild. Since the problem might have been due to a bad air fuel ratio I will install injectors so that will not happen again. This kit is costing me well into the $10,000 range. I will set a WHP goal. Why spend that much money and settle for stage 1 power? Since the money has been paid I wonder why the injector solution was not solved as of yet? I don't feel the need to do extra research to find parts when there are tuning companies out there that make this stuff for the distributors like EIP and VF-Engineering. Since I don't have another year to leave the car sitting in Holland I'm doing this just to get my ride back and you or anyone else won't have to endure this B.S.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

using different injectors won't rectify a bad a/f ratio...
Tuning will...
Also...Hose clamps and melted wires are not tuning issues... the a/f ratio is...
Honestly...Has VR6 specialist done any other 24v turbos before yours - or are you the first one? 



_Modified by herbehop at 1:14 PM 10-19-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

He had a R32 with several problems also with the EIP kit. At the time of dropping off the car the R32 looked fine. Since I'm not tracking the problems on that car I don't know what has happened.


----------



## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_*I'm not doing the set-up to meet my own specs!!* Because of bad tuning, faulty sauder, hose clamps, melted wires, and a list of other tuning issues I was forced to do a rebuild. Since the problem might have been due to a bad air fuel ratio I will install injectors so that will not happen again. This kit is costing me well into the $10,000 range. I will set a WHP goal. Why spend that much money and settle for stage 1 power? Since the money has been paid I wonder why the injector solution was not solved as of yet? I don't feel the need to do extra research to find parts when there are tuning companies out there that make this stuff for the distributors like EIP and VF-Engineering. Since I don't have another year to leave the car sitting in Holland I'm doing this just to get my ride back and you or anyone else won't have to endure this B.S.

If you had spent some time researching so you knew what you were talking about you would have saved alot of money and could have made 500whp. Making 500whp on eip software with just some bigger injectors is not going to happen.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (VRQUICK)*

My good tuning Brother! I don't really care to research anymore!! I paid for the work to be done *RIGHT*. At this point in time the 2 companies VR6-Specialist and EIP need to come up with a solution to fix the problem. I'm not a turbo specialist and really have no time to rebuild the car myself. If I did then I would have went that route from the beginning. It sounds to me that you are trying to blame me for the work that is done to the motor!! ARE you? I hope not because if you do the research for me and give EIP tuning the answers so that they can fix the problems (that several of us are having) then do so. Don't be a stick in the mud and keep posting until you put some answers up on the Vortex and help your Brother out!


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

I dont want to bad mouth VR6 specialist because I dont know anything about them but I just went for a ride in a r32 stage 1 turbo and it ran flawlessly. EIP did this guys work too. (Of course you know my experience with the stage 1 kit.) For what you are spending I suggest flying Rich in for a Vacation to tune your car. It may save you money in the long run. 
Here is the link to the guy who just took delivery of the Turbo R32 down the road from me (oh my gosh is this car awesome):
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
Good luck with your car. I hope everything works out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (pl2950)*

*OK lets back up here!!!*
*I will try do this correctly so that we all understand a common trend*
The Stage 2 24v kits are having the problems.
Did it come out right?
Not the stage 1 R32 or stage 1 2.8 that were done at EIP's garage.
Is this the trend maybe some of the other _*stage 2*_ have something in common that the stage 1 is not experiencing at all. Ok the programming or the head gasket there is something. if it is not done at Eip then maybe the shipped kits have faults? The shop in Holland has a long list of parts that did not fit and had to be resurfaced and bent (i.e. dump tub hitting my fire wall, boost pipes not aligning with each other). 
I see where you are coming from just put your self in the stage 2 problem area with the other stage2 guys that did not have the work done in the EIP garage.
I will offer to pay RICH's round trip to fix my car just as I offered Ronald to spend a weekend at the track all expenses paid to track test the car.


_Modified by DONWON at 1:12 PM 10-19-2005_


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

I was just stating the common trend with installation and tuning at the shop you are using. I assume the R32 that has also had problems done at your shop was a *stage 1* since that is all that has been released as of yet. If they are having problems with that car, they are 0 fo 2 on EIP VRT installations (stage 1 or 2). I have been in 2 24v VRT stage 1's done at EIP, one being an R32, and they perform as they were intended. (2 for 2) Did that come out right?








I am pulling for you and want you to have a kick ass car. But if tuning is the main issue (I am not saying it is), you may want to find another person to dive into it. Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by pl2950 at 4:47 PM 10-19-2005_


----------



## BEAU-SOF (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: (pl2950)*

like donwon said.. the problem seems to be in the stage 2 dept not stage 1.... i truly dont mean to upset anyone but people should stay focused on the issue here and not compare it to anything else... donwon's situation is unique to other stage 2's but the fact remains quite a few stage 2 cars are having program issues and IMO its taking EIP waay too long to resolved them.
that being said its plain to see the stage 2 product is NOT complete if there is an issue with programming(the brain of the product). and i dont know of any company that would send out such an incomplete product without having a VERY quick fix to it...
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (BEAU-SOF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BEAU-SOF* »_like donwon said.. the problem seems to be in the stage 2 dept not stage 1.... i truly dont mean to upset anyone but people should stay focused on the issue here and not compare it to anything else... donwon's situation is unique to other stage 2's but the fact remains quite a few stage 2 cars are having program issues and IMO its taking EIP waay too long to resolved them.
that being said its plain to see the stage 2 product is NOT complete if there is an issue with programming(the brain of the product). and i dont know of any company that would send out such an incomplete product without having a VERY quick fix to it...
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


The final comments above are absolutely not true....the kit is absolutely 100% complete and comes with everything needed for installation and good performance. Could the SW be adjusted to avoid a flat spot in the middle...sure and we will try to find the time this winter to provide an update but the cars still make very good power and offer excellent performance, both Stage-1 and Stage-2. 
We have installed numerous systems for very happy owners as well as shipped dozens to folks who have had great success all around the world. We provide all parts needed for a positive result. 
donwon's situation has NOTHING to do with the completeness of the EIP 24v Turbo System...his situation is unique in many ways, primarily due to everything but the quality of the system itself. Read my posts and those from others in his countless threads explaining all of his trouble...you can surmise for yourself it has nothing to do with the system itself. 
-Rich


----------



## BEAU-SOF (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: (eiprich)*

as i stated, donwon's situation is unique, i was being kind but i'll be frank to better clarify myself, no disrepect to donwon..

from what i gather donwon decided to go beyond the scope of the product. unless it was made completely clear by EIP that they would help in what he is trying to do, i see no reason whatsoever to support any issues that arise from what he is trying to do. i have worked CS at many companies to know that once you go outside the scope what what is advertised and the CS rep is aware, issue support ends.. sure we will sell you anything you need to help what you are attempting to do but unless an agreement was made to support any issues that may arise(for a price mind you) standing orders from top level are don't bother supporting the product anymore... again no disrespect to donwon but business is business...

my comments about the kit being incomplete come from the posts i have read from others who currently own your kit(stage 2) and are having issues with the flat spots you are mentioning... i now think about it and apologize for saying the kit is incomplete.. but i will say that the kit was either not thoroughly tested or this flat spot issue was simply ignored.. maybe in hopes that a fix for the issue would be quickly made and sent out. i honestly dont know the specifics of this kit being shipped with this issue but i do know that i myself was in the market to buy this kit back in may when this issue was 1st talked about. i read that a fix was in the works and should have been ready by june so i figured i would wait until the fix has been made.. its now october and not only no fix but you say you will find the time in the winter(nov dec i am assuming) to provide an update. i can only guess this is happening to a very small handful of people to be make such a bold statement but even if the issue is very isolated, shouldnt a fix or some form of compromise be quickly made to resolve whats going on?? maybe i am thinking this issue is worse than it is. maybe it doesnt hurt drivability at all. but my understanding is that the issue hinders the advertised performance(not power, performance) of the vehicle. which sux to the people who payed their 5g's+ for this kit. 


_Modified by BEAU-SOF at 2:46 AM 10-20-2005_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (pl2950)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pl2950* »_ I suggest flying Rich in for a Vacation to tune your car. It may save you money in the long run. 


or Shipping the Car to EIP


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

1. It's more than just a "flat spot".
2. mid 13s for an under load a/f ratio is far too lean
3. I'm yet to hear from a "very happy" stage 2 owner, nor have I heard from anybody making 400+whp
4. I've been waiting for a fix for over a year.
5. Emails are no longer returned
6. I've been told that the "fix" was just a couple weeks away multiple times to no avail.
7. I was told I would be provided with a beta program that would run larger injectors...and then ignored when I inquired more.
8. Despite being provided with a half-ass performing product I attempted to maintain a good business relationship with EIP by always giving a good review of the product to the general public in hopes that my concerns which I have previously kept between myself and EIP would be quickly accounted for and rectified, and yet, now even my private dealings with EIP are simply ignored
9. After spending nearly $8000 dollars with EIP (which is about $3000 too much for what was provided) I am now forced to spend another $1200 with another company to develop a fueling solution for the car that shouldn't have any issues to begin with.
10. When I addressed my concern that mid 13s for an a/f ratio was too lean so I have not turned my boost up past 10psi, I was met with a simple reply... "Just turn up the boost and don't worry about it." This after 2 cars that I know of now have damaged motors by what can only be assumed to be a lean condition.

shall I go on? Or should I just sell it and get another Honda?


_Modified by Flite at 7:30 PM 10-19-2005_


----------



## Ming's Stratocaster (Aug 7, 2005)

i guess if you go with this product and are installing it yourself, its a toss of the dice. 
then for how much this kit costs and eiprich is saying they'll get a fix this winter???? they should be kissing their customer's backside. 
i was on the fence about what system to go with and how eip handles customer service, eip no way
sorry rich this is just bad form


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (BEAU-SOF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BEAU-SOF* »_from what i gather donwon decided to go beyond the scope of the product. unless it was made completely clear by EIP that they would help in what he is trying to do, i see no reason whatsoever to support any issues that arise from what he is trying to do. i have worked CS at many companies to know that once you go outside the scope what what is advertised and the CS rep is aware, issue support ends.. sure we will sell you anything you need to help what you are attempting to do but unless an agreement was made to support any issues that may arise(for a price mind you) standing orders from top level are don't bother supporting the product anymore... again no disrespect to donwon but business is business...
_Modified by BEAU-SOF at 2:46 AM 10-20-2005_

OK Why would I spend more money than I have to? If you didn't read as of yet I had a blown piston in the car!!
Read it again I did not want to spend this much money for a car that will spend 90% of the time just going to car shows and not racing.
The system went bad somewhere along the line due to bad products or something failing. This is not what I wanted to deal with in the middle of the car show season. I've spent too much money just traveling and calling long distance just to have the car sit in the shop for over 7 month. Maybe the air fuel ratio was bad from the beginning and the first sigh was the spark plug breaking! I don't know! The ECU went bad and the idol was very rough! Could it be the warm stall issue the spark plug being bad again! 
This is the twist the Apexi AVCR was connected to the wiring right at the 5th cylinder can this be the problem? There are several variables that I just don't know!
Know lets do the math $10,000 invested for the additional power. Wouldn't you want to have a WHP goal then?
*ASK your self these questions.* I no choice at this time but to do a rebuild and the money invested I should continue to look for $10,000 kit power!
*If there is problem with anything please reread so that you can understand what is going on. I did not wake up and said lets spend more money and create more problems.*


----------



## BEAU-SOF (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: (DONWON)*

I C...
i stand corrected donwon.. i had thought you were originally going for something more than advertise(hence my phrase "from what i gather")...
my mistake


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (BEAU-SOF)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BEAU-SOF* »_I C...
i stand corrected donwon.. i had thought you were originally going for something more than advertise(hence my phrase "from what i gather")...
my mistake









No problem








I just wish that Rich would try to keep close contact with his distributors and customer outside of Maryland. What I'm going through is I believe to be nothing of my own. I paid for the kit to be installed not so that I would not have to tamper with it later. If the kit is complete and doing wonderful things then the question is why my car? Prior to the kit being installed the car was not driven often at all. The motor life at the time of install I just broke 20,000 mile after almost 4 years of owning the car. The most amount of driving the car is due to running it back to Holland (3 1/2 hours) to hear that the car is not running right. It took a month for Rich and Ronald to come up with a way to e-mail the chip programming. *Rich I had you on the phone for the first in Holland to see what was going on.* The car ran perfectly until I had the full EIP programming installed at the same time I had the APEXI AVC-R installed. Again the the car sat in Holland for another 3 weeks for the programming and after that is when I had the ECU FAILURE.
*I'm tired of the BLAME GAME.*
I didn't do the install nor did I drive the car hard. The problems lies between the manufacture and the distributor. If you say that the kit runs every where else that is what you must discuss with VR6-specialist every since I was told not to refer to EIP for advice and to contact VR6-specialist at that time I knew I was just played!! I didn't just find the shop in Holland EIP referred me to them!! 
Now, I need injectors *RICH* do you have any for the 24v VR6? 
I hate doing soo much looking and researching for the kit that is being developed and manufactured to put down power reliably after I paid for it once already!!
Summary: The kit doesn't work!! 
*If it does work prove it!!* 
Getting my car to run by Christmas!


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
donwon's situation has NOTHING to do with the completeness of the EIP 24v Turbo System...his situation is unique in many ways, primarily due to everything but the quality of the system itself. Read my posts and those from others in his countless threads explaining all of his trouble...you can surmise for yourself it has nothing to do with the system itself. 
-Rich

Everything that the turbo system effected gotten damage. Lets look at the chip! We can look closer the piston! lets look at the spark plugs!
OK the quality of the system might not need these parts to be called a system. I guess that without this stuff the kits runs fine!! When the rebuild is completed we can test how much power the kit produces without the chip! Wow lets raise that *minus* the pistons. I can get 400WHP without pistons! The only thing that I can think of is that maybe it's the kit! *"Hint, Hint"*
My pistons been blowing ever since I drove the car from the dealership. And I have the chronic R32 replacement chip with the Special spark plug braking package along with the Monsoon stereo.
OK the kit came with Turbo, some pipes, and a air filter.
Short term reliability? Great
Long term reliability? Forget it
What did I do to the motor? Nothing!! 
Who installed it VR6-specialist! *Not me*
Who is the manufacturer? EIP Tuning
Who posted great results of the kit? I'm still searching didn't find them yet or is it just a *shipped stage 2 thing*?




_Modified by DONWON at 1:59 AM 10-20-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Injectors found hopefully fueling the car won't be an issue. 440cc how much power does that get you in a VR6?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

injectors don't "get" you power. I really wish you knew more about what you are having done than you do. You have some legit points but the car you're trying to have built exceeds what you're knowledge supports. You should really proof-read what you write as well. It's hard to grasp what you're trying to say when I have to spend 15 minutes putting your fragmanted sentences together. 
With that said, 440 cc injectors will suppport around 450 whp. If you want 500+ you should really look into the 680cc or even bigger injectors. If 680cc injectors are available and you're running a Tec system, why wouldn't you just run them and tune the sytem for the bigger injectors?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Flite I have almost 100 e-mails saved concerning the problems with the kit. One of the e-mails was a very informative that gave me a great insight on the injectors and how they work in the VR6. 
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG
_(I'm not a turbo specialist)_
The injectors have a injection time that is controlled by the ecu. A electrical signal is controlling that time the injectors are open and close. Between the maximum and minimum time the injector is open dictates how much fuel is injected into the cylinder. Since the fuel pressure is raised by the fuel pressure regulator (4 bar) and is pushing thought bigger injectors (440cc) with the ECU calculating the O2 sensor now the motor is more adjustable. The motor can then close the injector time if there is not enough air flowing into the motor where as the *stock* injectors would maxed out and there is no adjustment possible. 
The 440cc injectors were the balance to the minimum adjustment timing to keep the motor's idol almost stock but yet with the maximum timing and the detailed diagram these injectors will be able to product and safe and reliable 502 WHP being that the calculator - 18% drive train loss 592 BHP. Since the rep did not speak very good English for the injectors the calculator helped when he had me input the data into the calculator. 
Now the timing of the injectors has to be mapped into the ECU. As I was told that the adjustment timing of our motors is very good. I'm not sure what the timing is but the fuel pressure regulator has to be high as it is with the stock injectors and also the the ECU maps must corrected. The 440cc injectors in the first calculator settings was at 3 bar which didn't give any good results. I would need a 60+LB injector which would not adjust low enough for a good idol. 
If any one of you know the right equation for the injector solution then show me with numbers not just putting out there it's wrong and case closed.
I want to see some something that calculates why it cannot work not just saying (*It cannot work*)!! 
*The best help is informative help.*


_Modified by DONWON at 12:47 PM 10-20-2005_


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

yeah idd like to see someone with the stage 2 running right on vortex, ittl never happen though.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Flite I have almost 100 e-mails saved concerning the problems with the kit. One of the e-mails was a very informative that gave me a great insight on the injectors and how they work in the VR6. 
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG
_(I'm not a turbo specialist)_
The injectors have a injection time that is controlled by the ecu. A electrical signal is controlling that time the injectors are open and close. Between the maximum and minimum time the injector is open dictates how much fuel is injected into the cylinder. Since the fuel pressure is raised by the fuel pressure regulator (4 bar) and is pushing thought bigger injectors (440cc) with the ECU calculating the O2 sensor now the motor is more adjustable. The motor can then close the injector time if there is not enough air flowing into the motor where as the *stock* injectors would maxed out and there is no adjustment possible. 
The 440cc injectors were the balance to the minimum adjustment timing to keep the motor's idol almost stock but yet with the maximum timing and the detailed diagram these injectors will be able to product and safe and reliable 502 WHP being that the calculator - 18% drive train loss 592 BHP. Since the rep did not speak very good English for the injectors the calculator helped when he had me input the data into the calculator. 
Now the timing of the injectors has to be mapped into the ECU. As I was told that the adjustment timing of our motors is very good. I'm not sure what the timing is but the fuel pressure regulator has to be high as it is with the stock injectors and also the the ECU maps must corrected. The 440cc injectors in the first calculator settings was at 3 bar which didn't give any good results. I would need a 60+LB injector which would not adjust low enough for a good idol. 
If any one of you know the right equation for the injector solution then show me with numbers not just putting out there it's wrong and case closed.
I want to see some something that calculates why it cannot work not just saying (*It cannot work*)!! 
*The best help is informative help.*

_Modified by DONWON at 12:47 PM 10-20-2005_

Well with all that you're still talking about running 440 injectors on an ECU program. Do you have a custom ECU map? Last I heard you were going to run a tec system. If you've got a custom ECU program that is set to run the 440 injectors then great, but you can't plug 440cc injectors into the a stock or EIP modified ECU and think it's going to run right. As far as the idle goes, if you are running a Tec system you should have no problem idling 680cc injectors, or even larger than that. It's all in the tune. I know how injectors work, all I'm saying is that if you're doing some sort of custom tune, regardless of it's an ECU or stand alone, why wouldn't you try to run bigger injectors than 440s? I know for a fact that at around 480whp, 680 injectors are nearly maxed out. 440s would be maxed in the mid 400s.


----------



## malezlotko (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Pounds of fuel per hour per injector = expected bhp*0.55/number of injectors.
For 550 wheel horsepower you would have roughly a bhp of 621.5, the injector size you would need to optamize the power would be 56.97 pounds per hour. The best choice would be to go even bigger then that. This said you would also need a fuel pump capable of pumping this amount of fuel, may be a chance you need to upgrade your fuel lines, as well as a fuel pressure regulator.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

My question is the same as Flite's 
*What tuning are you doing this all on?*


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_My question is the same as Flite's 
*What tuning are you doing this all on?*

I have 2 choices for programming. Either VR6- Specialist will have to program the ECU when the car is dyno tested or I will have to take the car to Rothe-Motorsports and use one of there current programs.

_Quote, originally posted by *malezlotko* »_Pounds of fuel per hour per injector = expected bhp*0.55/number of injectors.
For 550 wheel horsepower you would have roughly a bhp of 621.5, the injector size you would need to optamize the power would be 56.97 pounds per hour. The best choice would be to go even bigger then that. This said you would also need a fuel pump capable of pumping this amount of fuel, may be a chance you need to upgrade your fuel lines, as well as a fuel pressure regulator.

I'm not to sure haw everything works because I'm not a Fuel / Turbo expert. With the kit there is a in line fuel pump already installed on the car. I know that the car with the 3 bar fuel pressure regulator would require huge injectors but with the 4 bar FPR and the injector timing set correctly I should be able to max these injectors for 500 WHP. 
*Now if I do fall a few HP short (470, 460) I will not complain If the car runs good!!!*
This car is not going to pushed hard all the time. But , since I will expect more of a tuning solution for the extra cost the 440cc looks like a very good choice. The stock injectors should be switched from EIP tuning for this to be a true stage 2 upgrade. The calculator that was used come out to be 370WHP on stock injectors being maxed. So if the car was to creep a little higher in boost this would cause problems because the extra air would make the cylinder temperature rise.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Flite You have been a great help in this fourm!
I will use the Tec stand alone system as a last resort. The ohter Germany tuners http://www.hgp-turbo.de/ and http://www.rothe-motorsport.de/ use chip programming to get 565WHP out of a 2.8 24v. Until I can find someone who has experience with a stand alone this is my best option. I do not want to drive my car to Great Britian just for the stand alone system nor, do I want to give my car to someone to learn how to do it for the first time!!
I don't have a problem with Stand Alone I just have a problem finding some *with in reasonbile distance* to do the work.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
The final comments above are absolutely not true....the kit is absolutely 100% complete and comes with everything needed for installation and good performance. Could the SW be adjusted to avoid a flat spot in the middle...sure and we will try to find the time this winter to provide an update but the cars still make very good power and offer excellent performance, both Stage-1 and Stage-2. 
-Rich

Winter is here in Germany! Has anyone gotten an *PROGRAM UPDATE*?
I don't know how much more of the winter we have left may be SANTA will bring the PROGRAM UPDATE along with my Free Pistons!! 
I won't loose any sleep after paying so much money. Don't get your hopes up anytime soon If your planning to get a turbo. Winter of 2006 will be there soon enough.


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (DONWON)*

It is funny,this is the same stuff that has gone on and is still going on for years.........EIP got your money,and that is all they wanted...you are ON YOUR OWN. There is NO "fix".........the only reason they are still in business is because they know there are peeps that don't go on the internet,and there are SO MANY VW's out there,that it is easy to get a few guys to buy there stuff.I have hands on experience with 2 VR6 EIP kits,and 1 2.0 kit,NONE of them run right..........1 kit has to run 5-7 psi max,and the other kit ran so bad,needed stand alone,and the other car ran lean,and had the throttle closing due to torque reading from ECU......"there's a sucker born every minute"...........
EIP=good marketing + empty promises


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_It is funny,this is the same stuff that has gone on and is still going on for years.........EIP got your money,and that is all they wanted...you are ON YOUR OWN. There is NO "fix".........the only reason they are still in business is because they know there are peeps that don't go on the internet,and there are SO MANY VW's out there,that it is easy to get a few guys to buy there stuff.I have hands on experience with 2 VR6 EIP kits,and 1 2.0 kit,NONE of them run right..........1 kit has to run 5-7 psi max,and the other kit ran so bad,needed stand alone,and the other car ran lean,and had the throttle closing due to torque reading from ECU......"there's a sucker born every minute"...........
EIP=good marketing + empty promises









EIP makes me wish I had bought a 1.8t. For the money I've got into my car now, I could be running 11s.


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

It is funny how people have different perspectives on things. Maybe it is because I only live about an hour or so south of them. I know several people who have had VR turbos from EIP and sing their praises. Granted they are 12v owners with one guy who just had a R32 kit installed. Even the tech at my local dealer has a stage 3+ on his corrado and came out to meet me and share notes when I dropped my car off for an oil change a little over a week ago. My guess is that there are so many variables when installing a turbo kit. Probably tuning has a lot to with it as well as making sure there are no other weaknesses along the line before the kit is installed. I also believe that most of the people (not all) who end up having problems are because there are other mods or things done that affect the way the car runs. For instance, Rickpr is selling his kit (not to single him out but to make my point). He was not happy with the power of his stage 2 kit but never installed the headgasket and ran "low compression pistons" (which he had installed after melting stock pistons running NOS). This is not how the kit was designed to work. Of course his set up is going to require special software and tuning for the car to run perfectly and reach the very tip top of what the kit was intended to do. Donwon's problems appear to stem from ECU failure. This could have been caused by a bad chip solder, electrical short from all his stereo stuff, etc. It also sounds like he had a bad tune from those who installed his kit. 
Flite, your situation stinks and I hope they help you come to a resolution to get your car running 350+whp. It sounds mostly like a tuning issue and hopefully it will be worked out soon. I will say that if you were looking for fast track times the MKIV is probably the worst platform to work from. Its heavy, its fwd, and it is expensive to to buy and modify. A 1.8t can be modified less expensively but to push over 300whp you really lose a lot of daily drivability and reliability. You still will have a heavy, expensive, fwd car. 
Good luck to all! It would be nice to see some other high hp 24v VR's on the forum running well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by pl2950 at 10:26 AM 10-23-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (pl2950)*

I'm very happy that I get some very positive feed back from the vortex. 
I'm one of those people that you must show me the how things happen. The stereo causing chip failure is something that has to be broken down to me not just the radio (electric) and the chip (electric) equals disaster. I do believe that my Optima would have gone out before the chip being that the stereo is a completely different circuit that is not wired to anything in the car other than the battery and ground cables. it is wired for car shows so that I don't need the key in the car for the stereo to work (not to the ignition switch of the car). I run the stereo to a power box that provides the power. There is no risk of any power surge running to ECU. 
Now the kit! So far I still don't have any knowledge of anyone out side of EIP's Garage running a STAGE 2 24v kit perfectly. There has to be extreme kit prejudice to only effect kits shipped abroad. Again being that there is a common trend and also NO FIX there is something wrong! 12v cool, stage 1 cool, and even the window tint that is done in EIP's Garage will work great all the time. 
If there is another perspective IT MUST COME FROM ANOTHER STAGE 2 KIT THAT WAS SHIPPED ABROAD!! 
I'm from Baltimore but since my car and kit are here you should got o EIP and put in a good word for me. In January I was there #1 customer now I cannot get through before I'm told to refer back to Holland. What is the deal with that? I know I got the SKEET SKEET from EIP. It's better I let a turbo company deal with it here in Germany!
*For the other Stage 2 working kits DID THEY ALL MISS THE VWVORTEX 10% DISCOUNT!!*
Or maybe there kits are working so good that they cannot post?


----------



## VR6 Soup (Oct 23, 2005)

eiprich is laughing all the way to the bank.


----------



## BEAU-SOF (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: (VR6 Soup)*

i've said this a long time ago and will say it again...
EIP kits installed at EIP work flawlessly... i have never heard a BAD story from someone who had their EIP kit installed by EIP...
i can easily say that for most other tuners whether they are vw or any other car tuner.. cause quite frankly if they can't install their own kit then there is something seriously wrong with the kit....
long story short... all horror stories i hear are from people whom have installed the kit either by themselves or had another mechanic install the kit... it can be said the these issues are indeed install related... even IF this is true, there are waay too many install problems out in the field which leads too bad install instructions which my understanding a full on install dvd comes with the kit.. so my question is why are there soooo many bad install problems out there??? where i work at we get alot of feedback in regards to install problems(very nasty complaints







) but for every 1 bad install we have at least 25 successful installs... with this kit.. i have not heard 1 good install and configuration story that didnt happen at EIP....
so what gives here???


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

The kit is plug and play. There is no real tuning to be done. I do think it's strange that all the kits that are installed at EIP work well and EVERY kit that I've heard of that has been installed elsewhere runs like ****. I don't get it. I keep hearing from EIP that there are countless kits out there that run flawlessly...well where are they? If there were so many out there, I'm sure VWVortex would have heard of at least one by now.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_ If there were so many out there, I'm sure VWVortex would have heard of at least one by now. 

that isn't necessarily true...I know people who are big into the vag scene yet don't spend anytime on vortex...


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
that isn't necessarily true...I know people who are big into the vag scene yet don't spend anytime on vortex...


I do too, but I haven't heard of ONE SINGLE 24V turbo kit out there that has been installed by someone other than EIP themselves that runs as advertised. But strangely, there are multiple people on VWVortex that DO have problems. If would just think that if there were a bunch of people out there that do have good running 24V turbo cars from EIP, I would have heard of at least one by now.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

why cant eiprich get on the vortex here, and straighten things out? gossh what would i get myself into if i would buy this kit, im 18 almost, and there would be such a problem for me to make more money over winter(my bad season) for extra parts/labor, id bankrupt my parents and my friends parents out of frustration, im so srry for u guys, hope a fix comes out, i have realy not seen a lot of turbo kits out there w/o aftermarket injectors, why did this happen with the 24v?
and why are there so many more companies developing kits out there for the R32 instead of our vr6's, our cars came out 2years earlier, shouldnt there be more to choose from?
why did the R32 kit get finished so fast, and there is much more info on eips site on them, 
what no respect for the regular vr6?
maybe sem motorsports will come out with something positive for the 24v?
hpa has no info on the 24v turbo systems also, all r32, explain someone, (i know the r32 is a better platform, but our cars were out earlier)?


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

^I don't know about the .:R ecu...
But i know the 24v ecu is more "complicated" than the 12v...that can be part of the issue


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

It's because the R32 is a performance oriented platform when it rolls off the assembly line. EVERY SINGLE person who buys an R32 is interested in the cars performance. Not so for the regular VR6. The majority of 2.8L 24Vs that sell remain stock. Also, people the own R32s are generaly willing to spend more money to make their cars perform.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

wheres rich when u need him


----------



## VR6 Soup (Oct 23, 2005)

they should only sell these kits if they are installing them. somethings wrong if numerous people can't get this kit up and running.








where's eiprich when you need him? 
eating a fine dinner on everyone's dime








good old eip customer service for you.


_Modified by VR6 Soup at 10:18 PM 10-23-2005_


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

^they did that with the R kit...
It is possible that they didn't know about the 24v software until it was already shipped...
btw...if any of you need to talk to rich- then call EIP or email him...He doesnt sit on the board all day nor does any of the advertisers










_Modified by herbehop at 1:20 AM 10-24-2005_


----------



## VR6 Soup (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: (herbehop)*

if they didn't know about the software, why did they release the kit?
maybe a little more R&D.
i've dealt w/ eip in the past and its all http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

^the other 24Vs were done at EIP...I don't know how the software works, but perhaps they were able to tweak it in-house to work


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
btw...if any of you need to talk to rich- then call EIP or email him...He doesnt sit on the board all day nor does any of the advertisers










I live in Hawaii so the time change is a bitch. They're closed by the time I'm done eating breakfast. I like the fact that I can save Emails too.


----------



## tornado jti (Aug 2, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

i hope that you figure your car out man. i would not take anything from
here though, i hate to be negative but it is true. somebody was saying
that an rsx type s is all that, my stock 12v vr6 laid a spanking on at least 10 of them, everyway that you can run them. also someone said
that 215whp put the acura into the 13's. 215whp will put you into the 12's from a vr6, and has many times, by people on the tex.
stand alone engine management will always be the right way of doing
things. it does not make a difference on how inclined you are to doing the job yourself, you already said that someone else is doing the work,
which there is nothing wrong with that. you can completely tune the car
for the turbo, with stand alone. if you do decide on just doing an ecu
upgrade, talk to jeff from c2, he has been known to do the best tuning
on vr6 turbos, his screename i think is jefness3 or something like that.
good luck and happy boosting! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (tornado jti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tornado jti* »_i hope that you figure your car out man. i would not take anything from
here though, i hate to be negative but it is true. somebody was saying
that an rsx type s is all that, my stock 12v vr6 laid a spanking on at least 10 of them, everyway that you can run them. also someone said
that 215whp put the acura into the 13's. 215whp will put you into the 12's from a vr6, and has many times, by people on the tex.


I'd love to be one of those VW guys that says "Yeah, Honda's suck", but I'm not. Most likely I AM the guy who said all that stuff about an RSX-S. I will say this, the only way your stock 12V beat an RSX-S is if you have it mounted in a MKI or maybe a MKII. And if by "avery way that you can run them" you mean on a roadcourse.... well then you're just lieing. 215whp will put an RSX-S deep into the 13s on street tires. 215whp will put a MKIV deep into the 14s, maybe high 13s. 215whp in a MKIII might be close to an RSX with the same HP. 
As I said, I'm sorry to say this, because you came in hear supporting my case, but you don't have to lie about Hondas.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

why isnt there any info on the kit from hpa, is it because there in canada, or something else, ttt


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_why isnt there any info on the kit from hpa, is it because there in canada, or something else, ttt

It's because they don't market it as a kit in the same way that EIP does. HPA's "kit" is more of an in-house job than EIP's


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_why isnt there any info on the kit from hpa, is it because there in canada, or something else, ttt

Have you ever seen the prices on the HPA kits?







You can buy an eip kit and upgrade everything additional you want (like fueling, stand alone, custom tune, etc) and still save thousands.. Dont get me wrong, I am glad HPA is out there enhancing the performance of VW's but I just wish they would come to earth with their pricing. It is not like our cars are Porsches, BMW's, or MB's.


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (pl2950)*

I take it you have never called them and priced out a Stg. 1 24v kit ? I paid about $1500 more than a eip kit and it came with a short runner and headspacer/stud kit. My Stage 2 was bigger injectors/MAF and a second sidemount. My Stg 3 was a custom Gt30r, 4 bar FPR and a chip. I'm sitting around $8k CDN. and it runs flawless, Passes emissions testing and lays down a reliable 400 hp without the use of a RRFPR. With proper chip tuning there is absolutely no need to ever add standalone. They sell a complete engineered system. 
Yes their pricing for their twin setups is expensive, but if you realize the custom cast exhaust manifolds, custom turbo housings, Gt cartridges, short runner manifolds and formed silicone aren't free. Not to mention the software/engineering HGP does for them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








Official HPA Cheerleader. 




_Modified by darrenewest at 10:09 PM 10-24-2005_


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

I really wish that manifold wasn't so expensive...I want one now.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

I'm sitting around $8k
how much is that in us?
and i dont live in canada, that would be a problem right? if not who does their work in the midwest?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

Right about now I think that everyone is pissed at me!! I had very good news that the motor was running and the car is being idoled everyday to brake in the new parts. From what I have from Ronald is that the car will be ran with boost being added in steps. First running the car at lowest boost posible by the Apexi AVC-R and then doing a full boost run on the dyno machine. The next problem is that my clutch dosen't work!! It will take a few days to figure out the problem. He also told me that the Master Cylinder goes out on the MK4. So now I reach futher into my pocket. Some way some how I needed a replacement master cylinder with less than 30,000 miles on the car. Now you can hate me because he offered to install an EIP short shifter with the motor rebuild!! Again I said why not what could a short shifter hurt? Or maybe it's just the name <EIP> that is associated with another problem that is on my mind!!


----------



## BEAU-SOF (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: (DONWON)*

i am not sure but i dont think the Short Shifter could cause that kind of damage... i could be wrong though


----------



## malezlotko (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (BEAU-SOF)*

how much is the short runner from hgp?


----------



## rickypr (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: (malezlotko)*

$965


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Short shifter has nothing to do with your clutch problem. You ran your car fairly hard when you first got the turbo installed, and it DOES have 30,000+ miles. Clutches go out, how fast depends on how you drive. When ever my car is running 100%, I don't expect my clutch to last much longer than 7-8 thousand miles.


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (Flite)*

I ate a stock clutch in 10,000km after the stg1 setup. Now Im running a OEM R32 setup. It seems to hold up really well. Next will be a lightweight flywheel, 6 puck combo. I've already purchased back in march. Still waiting for it....... I may even drop a quaiffe or a peloquin in.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

is that another false remark from eip then, that the clutch does not need to be upgraded and that the stock one holds power fine, just to sell their kit w/o the purchasers thinking they will also have to upgrade the clutch, wtf, 
i remember rich saying that the stock one does not need to be replaced, wtf?


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

almost 32,000 miles on my stage 1 kit and no signs of clutch failure or weakness. I dont do drag dumps. If you are going to drag race your car, you will need a clutch sooner rather than later (but then again a stock 24v will need a clutch in no time if you are racing regularly)


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_is that another false remark from eip then, that the clutch does not need to be upgraded and that the stock one holds power fine, just to sell their kit w/o the purchasers thinking they will also have to upgrade the clutch, wtf, 
i remember rich saying that the stock one does not need to be replaced, wtf?

It depends on how you plan on driving the car...


----------



## malezlotko (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

If plz can manage on his stock clutch for this long im sure everyone else will have no difficulites as long as you respect the power you have.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_Short shifter has nothing to do with your clutch problem. You ran your car fairly hard when you first got the turbo installed, and it DOES have 30,000+ miles. Clutches go out, how fast depends on how you drive. When ever my car is running 100%, I don't expect my clutch to last much longer than 7-8 thousand miles.

The car only has 28,000 miles on it to be more accurate. I never pushed the car hard because the car never made it to the track or anyother event. I really did not push the car hard at all. Just normal driving not street racing! Now, He was telling my that there might be air in the system or the Master cylinder is bad. I have to wait to see what he finds.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_
The car only has 28,000 miles on it to be more accurate. I never pushed the car hard because the car never made it to the track or anyother event. I really did not push the car hard at all. Just normal driving not street racing! Now, He was telling my that there might be air in the system or the Master cylinder is bad. I have to wait to see what he finds.

that could be, but it has nothing to do with anything from EIP. That short shifter is a 10 minute install that has ZERO effect on your clutch


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

I'm not blaming then for the gear box!! 
*Please REREAD!!*
Its just so that the clutch is not working and I was saying it just a coincidence that the short shifter was just installed







!!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_I'm not blaming then for the gear box!! 
*Please REREAD!!*
Its just so that the clutch is not working and I was saying it just a coincidence that the short shifter was just installed







!!

I did reread, more than once. I had to in order to comprehend what you were trying to type. The fact that you even brought up the short shifter in the context of the clutch going out implied that you think there is a correlation between the two, which there isn't. I was just clarifying for you in case you though there was a connection.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Here is one of my many E-mails. This one I really don't understand too much.
Donald,

The second hand clutch cilinder did not work too,
then we bought a new one the nesxt day, did not work neither.
3 day we disassambled the complete clutchpedal, so we could simulate outside the car
with an long hydraulic line. then we could easy get the air outof the system.
Then we installed the cilinder into the car again, and again it did not work.
no we placed an long brake oil supply(see foto) and it works.
So it seems the oil reservoir does not feed the cilinder correctly.
strange story because we deal alot with the 6-speed gearboxes.
that the master clutch cilinder fails we see more often. But not this problem yet.

Looking forward to finish the project !!
*Can anyone tell me what is going on with the clutch / brake system to cause problems!! I can use this info*.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

wow, out of my leage of knowledge, anyone can help?


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

I have been doing VW clutches for years....the clutch will not "bleed" normally,you have to get what air you can out of it,(normal bleeding) but it will not build up pressure right away.......you then have to pump the clutch with your hands about 30-40 times to build some pressure,then re-bleed,then when you are confident that the air bubbles are out,then pump again 30-40 times by hand,the pressure will have built up and then you can drive/test the clutch......
What scares me is the guys building/tuning your ride still have the FMU ,and can't bleed your clutch!! Haha,just kidding


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

Alright, now the brakes have to be bleed to get the air out. Sometime between now and time of delivery is when some thing else brakes!! (off topic: writing with this tablet PC is great) Is there anything new with EIP? I have a very bad feeling that my car will not be complete until 2006.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

And I have a bad feeling that it's impossible to make a VW fast.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

eip pis..es me off, **** everyone paid and deserve to have a complete kit, where the hell is rich, before he use to come us down but no the rage is just building, wtf?
And I have a bad feeling that it's impossible to make a VW fast. (flite)
tht pisses me off even more, (not mad at u though flite), eip is making the vr6 look bad, why the doesnt this ever happen to companies like APR Tuning and stuff, hasnt eip been around longer?


----------



## Got 24v (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

hey 1986, do you currently have an eip turbo set up?


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Got 24v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Got 24v* »_hey 1986, do you currently have an eip turbo set up?

He has no personal experience. Just someone who likes to get his panties in a bunch over what he reads on the internet.


----------



## Got 24v (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: (pl2950)*

pl... i guess u knew where i was going.... 1986: go with stg1 and be happy! how much power does a 17year old need now a days.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (Got 24v)*

nope no turbo kit yet, not sure if ill go with eip anymore, and yeah stage 1 would probably work better for me. 
also this 
problems here problems there problems everywhere! (fromtheR32thread)

All right, here it is. The moment for which you all have been waiting. Those of you just looking for more ammo for your "EIP sucks!" rants can skip to the end. That's where I'll go over the cons. For the rest of you:
The Peloquin diff
I was initially worried that it wasn't working properly. I thought this because all the FWD cars I had driven with one installed required unwinding the steering wheel after a turn and would, in some cases, actually fight you while turning. My car didn't exhibit either of these behaviors, but after talking with a few other R32 owners who had either a Quaife or Peloquin installed, and who said that it didn't happen with them either, I felt comfortable that that was the normal behavior.
That just makes me love it more. It means that the car acts exactly as normal, except when you need the diff to do for what it was designed. That is, putting the power to the road. In a straight line it rarely does anything, as the Haldex (especially with the HPP) is pretty good at keeping traction. I have launched the car pretty hard making a turn and merging into traffic and have to say that it really does a great job of keeping the front wheels planted. No inside tire spin, even on wet roads. I haven't gotten a chance to accelerate out of any tight turns, but judging by the way it has performed so far (and by my experience with FWD cars with a TBD installed), I'd say it should really help in that situation as well.

The EIP street series clutch and LWFW
Shifting is sooo much nicer now. It's hard to tell if the engine spools any faster because of it, as I also have ~100hp more than before, but the revs definitely drop off faster now. It is much easier to rev match down shifts, though. No more having to time the rev with how long it takes to get 28lbs of flywheel moving. Just blip the throttle and you're where you need to be.
The clutch is a nice piece. It's basically a pucked clutch (8, to be exact), but there is a wave spring in between the front and back side surfaces which gets rid of the "on/off switch" feel that most pucked clutches give. Pedal feel is much improved, and now there is a nice linear engagement. I have had to modify my technique a bit from the stock set-up. To shift smoothly, I used to let the clutch out quite quickly to the friction point, then relax (and almost press in slightly) to let the car "catch-up" then let it out all the way. Now I just let it out it one quick motion. If I revert back to my old ways, it'll buck a bit. The other thing to remember is that I can't lallygag with the shifter. I don't have to speed shift, but if I take too long the revs will drop (thanks to that flywheel) and the shift will be jerky. Once I re-teach my feet, I'll shift more smoothly than I ever could with the stock set-up on every shift. I usually get it right.

The EIP Street Series exhaust
It's hard to tell what effect it has on performance. I would imagine that, since turbos like very little back-pressure, it has a fair bit of effect; but as I did this all at once I don't have a before and after comparison. It does look sharp. It weighs less that the stock bits, and it makes a nice sound. I think that it's actually a bit quieter than the stock w/flapper, except for right around 2400rpm, when you are giving it light throttle, then it gets a little louder in the cabin, but not annoyingly so.

The Neuspeed rear sway
It's their hollow bar. I like it because it's both lighter and stiffer. Much like the Peloquin, though, I haven't had much (if any) time to really see what it can do. I'll let you all know.
I think that's everything...oh yeah, the turbo.

EIP stage I
What's not to like? ~370hp and 340 ft/lbs...that fantastic sound you get when you roll on the accelerator and the intake (which is now about three feet from my ears) lets all the sound of the whoooosing turbo come at you. It sounds like a jet mashing the throttle at the end of the runway getting ready to take off. The car runs like stock (almost...see end). It starts right up (see end). It idles perfectly, albeit a little higher (again, see end). Part throttle cruising/acceleration is great, no flat spots, mis-fires or surging. Full throttle acceleration is phenomenal, I just need to get used to the lower redline. EIP pegs it at 7000, my APR chip was set a bit higher, and it never ran as fast to the redline like the car does now.
As you all know, I had the car built so that you'd never see it coming. Stealth IC, return dump and BOV set to "quiet". I love that I don't look/sound like boy-racer, but can still haul ass like one.
IF YOU'VE SKIPPED TO THE END, START READING NOW
The bad
Diff - none
Clutch/LWFW - As is expected with light weight flywheels, there is some chatter. EIP turned the idle up to ~925, and that seems to have gotten rid of 90% of it. Also, the revs fall off so quickly that if you aren't quick with the shifts the car can buck a bit. You don't have to drag-race-speed-shift each gear change, just don't dawdle.
The exhaust - As mentioned above, it can get a little loud at about 2400rpm, which sucks, cause that right at cruising speed. The weird thing is, it's random. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. I would also like it if the tips were tucked a bit more like on Rich's personal car. I understand the desire to show off the laser etched "EIP TUNING", but it looks a little, dare I say...Autozone.
The sway bar - As I said, I've had no chance to really play with it, yet.
The turbo - Now, Rich did say all he had a chance to do was dyno tune it, and that they would have liked another day to road test it, but I was desperate for my car, so I explained to him that wasn't an option. It was a Saturday, he said to call back on Monday and schedule an appointment. If I had left it then most of these problems wouldn't have been problems. The day after I picked the car up (Sunday), I went to start the car and it wouldn't start. It would turn over good and strong, just...nothing. After three or four tries, it finally caught. I pulled away and it stalled again. Same thing, three or four tries and it was fine. I made a mental note to mention that to Rich at the next opportunity. Monday after work, I had a repeat performance, but this time it wouldn't catch. I called EIP. It was 15 minutes before they closed. I was told I had two options: They would send a tow truck (at their expense), tow the car to their shop, fix the problem (It turned out that the circuit board didn't like having an eprom soldered/de-soldered/re-soldered three times, once for the stock chip, once for the APR chip, and once for EIP's socket. EIP uses a socket, so that when they have these all over the country they can just send you any software updates, you pull the ECU, snap out the old eprom and snap in the new one.) and then road test it like they had wanted to, to see if any more bugs popped up; or, They could send a tech with a loaner ECU down to me. I, obviously, chose #2. They said that they would have to pull my immobilizer codes and software tune off of their computer and load it onto the ECU and that it would probably take a few hours, but that they would get to me ASAP. About 8:30 Matt shows up, swaps the ECU's in about 10 minutes and the car started right up. [Again Matt, huuuuge thanks!! ]. Another problem I have had is a stalling issue. If you, for example, wound the car out in second gear to anything above ~3000rpm, then stepped off the gas and stepped on the clutch the car would stall out. A BOV adjustment has all but relieved that problem. It'll still do it, but you have to go to ~5000rpm. A simple behavioral change has made it a non-issue. I don't step on the clutch now until I actually want to change gears. I've read that that is better anyway, and that way the inertia of the car keeps the engine spinning that extra second so it's not super rich anymore. Also, I don't know if it's the wastegate opening, but, sometimes, right as it gets to full boost I can get a little buck. It's much worse if, just as I get to that point, I get off the gas completely then get back on it a little.
One more thing, yes I have a CEL still...kinda. It would blaze in the cluster, but I had them disable it. Rich has got until 2009 to find a solution, that's when I have to get emissions tested and they just look for codes. I hope, and have every faith, that it will be resolved looong before then.

So there you have it. All I need to do now is get my coil-overs installed, an alignment and corner balance done, and figure out a way to make Porsche Boxster four pot mono-block front calipers work and I'll be set. Who am I kidding? Once that happens I'll be tired of 370hp, and ready for stage III. You still need a test mule Rich?
Modified by rabbitgtibbar at 10:14 PM 10-25-2005


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

ok...well that guy has SOME reason to be frustrated. You don't though. Don't jump on the EIP bashing bandwagon for no reason. The rest of the kit is pretty damn good, it's just the fueling solution that is making the whole kit look bad. Until you personally have a reason to bash EIP, don't do it.


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_nope no turbo kit yet, not sure if ill go with eip anymore, and yeah stage 1 would probably work better for me. 
also this problems here problems there problems everywhere! (fromtheR32thread)...
...*EIP stage I
What's not to like? ~370hp and 340 ft/lbs...that fantastic sound you get when you roll on the accelerator and the intake (which is now about three feet from my ears) lets all the sound of the whoooosing turbo come at you. It sounds like a jet mashing the throttle at the end of the runway getting ready to take off. The car runs like stock (almost...see end). It starts right up (see end). It idles perfectly, albeit a little higher (again, see end). Part throttle cruising/acceleration is great, no flat spots, mis-fires or surging. Full throttle acceleration is phenomenal, I just need to get used to the lower redline. EIP pegs it at 7000, my APR chip was set a bit higher, and it never ran as fast to the redline like the car does now.
As you all know, I had the car built so that you'd never see it coming. Stealth IC, return dump and BOV set to "quiet". I love that I don't look/sound like boy-racer, but can still haul ass like one.*...


I am not really sure what your saying...but this guy is very happy....he wrote an honest review where he makes it clear in his posts that he is very happy with the Turbo System and our work and customer service...perhaps you should re-read his posts and the entire thread you referenced. 
Also several other system owners posted their positive reviews as well...very confused by your comments and once again, we are not involved in building or tuning DONWON's car. 
The R32 Turbo thread that you referenced: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2232615
-Rich


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

You don't know what the heck you are talking about _1986 jetta gli_. I have been in that R32 and have met Jeremy. The guy is local to me. He is tickled pink with the way the car performs. I was equally impressed. Read his posts throughout the whole thread. Obviously you have no clue when it comes to highly modifying cars. There are positives and negatives when you increase the performance of any car by the amount of hp these eip kits do (just as any bone-stock car does). That freaking car is awesome! It pulls so smoothly that it feels stock (it is only running 5psi). It pulls like a freight train too. Even though I have only been for one ride in it, I put the car in the class with my friends Porsche 911 40th anniv. as far as fun factor goes. You obviously should only own a bone-stock car or maybe ad just do few bolt ons.... 
Flite and possibly donwon have had some issues with their kit but for you, one with absolutely no personal experience, to run around bashing with your lack of knowledge is silly and really shows your maturity. As far as you stating that you are "not sure if ill go with eip anymore" I have serious doubts that you have thousands of dollars to throw around on something frivolous like turboing a car anytime soon. Good luck to you.


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (pl2950)*

Glad to see you post in Rich. I know for a fact that Jeremy is more than pleased with his car. I have been in the car and have spoke with him about his car http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Are my concerns ever going to be addressed? If not, how 'bout I send back my ECU, you return it back to stock, then I'll return my FPR and you can refund me the $500 or so dollars they are worth. That would put an end to my complaints about EIP. Seriously, EIP is still making out like a banshee for what these kits sell for. Just refund me the price of the ECU upgrade and FPR and I'll be happy.
As far as 1986dude.... really man, this isn't your issue, so drop it. You have no place in here.


_Modified by Flite at 6:52 PM 10-31-2005_


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*

If you, for example, wound the car out in second gear to anything above ~3000rpm, then stepped off the gas and stepped on the clutch the car would stall out. A BOV adjustment has all but relieved that problem. It'll still do it, but you have to go to ~5000rpm. A simple behavioral change has made it a non-issue. I don't step on the clutch now until I actually want to change gears. I've read that that is better anyway, and that way the inertia of the car keeps the engine spinning that extra second so it's not super rich anymore
maybe i missunderstood it, what does this mean though, is it that he has to drive the car to 5krpm in each gear of what?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_
maybe i missunderstood it, what does this mean though, is it that he has to drive the car to 5krpm in each gear of what?









Yes you misunderstood. In know what he's talking about as does every other person with a MAF and a loose BOV. Why does it matter to you so much? 
I'm starting to get the impression that you're some 25 year old dude with nothing to do but pretend you're a naive 17y/o just to try and annoy everybody on the internet.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

dude, wtf is ur problem take ur frustrations out on someone other then me ok, 
where the fu..k am i supposed to get info that i dont understand from other then couple of you, u want me to pull it out of my ass, well ive searched and came out empty, ****, 
i ****..ing call eip and they just ramble on about how nice the kit is, ive called them lie 5 times trying to find info on the problems u have been having and **** "we dont know of any problems, the kits run fine" so i wont get info out of them, right now unleast when i call they are a bunch of yes-men. so i turn to u guys, 
and yeah i dont have all the money i need for this, eventually i will, and i want the best for my hard as worked "window****..ingcleaning" money, i cant afford to have problems like u guys so i try to get most info out of everyone, i dono maybe another, more complete kit with the right tuning will come out and ill jump on that, 
and srry for bashing eip, it just frustrates me, because i know i want a turbo kit for sure, and there like the only company around for that, and they are having problems that dont seem to be getting resolved so, im like wtf am i supposed to do, people are complaining about it, selling their kits used, and such, this makes me mad because i dono what to do with the money i have, this car is slow as ass not turboed, so i dont want to spend any money elsewhere, 
**** give a dog a bone and hell find his way home, is it that hard to answer a couple questions, and fuc..ing srry for wording them wrong sometime, ****, peace, ill try to stay away, till the problem gets fixed, and just read your posts, will that make u and pl2590 happy?


----------



## VR6 JEDI (Oct 26, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

1986 jetta gli, its time to take your meds.


----------



## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: (pl2950)*

Guys... please let's get this back on topic. 
- Anthony


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

well rich was just in here and, why couldnt he tell us something, anything, any little good thing about the "fix", respond rich, if u can


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

maybe its not working out because its a blowoffvalve type turbo kit?
hpa,apr they use diverter valves, just a suggestion?
i used to have a 1.8t and i know that vws/audis dont like bov's, maybe same with a fi vr?


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_maybe its not working out because its a blowoffvalve type turbo kit?
hpa,apr they use diverter valves, just a suggestion?
i used to have a 1.8t and i know that vws/audis dont like bov's, maybe same with a fi vr?

The stalling issue is very minor issue and is mostly handled by the ECU, we are increasing the response time to avoid any stall but it is very minor at worst. BTW: The thread you are referencing is an R32 and the tuning and ECU's are completely different. 
As for an update for the 2.8L 24v...it is primarily the Stage-2 cars we are going to be working on and this will happen in December when we have time scheduled to get back on the dyno. Once done we will announce the updates. 
-Rich


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

thanks, and you dont think its the bovs, because vag cars hate them?


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_thanks, and you dont think its the bovs, because vag cars hate them?

BOV on a 1.8t is a totally different story and they do not work very well. 
We have been using BOV's on our Turbo Systems for non-oem turbo VW's for 10+years without problems. DV would work fine as well, but it is also mostly resolved simply by tightening the BOV. 
-Rich


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (VR6 JEDI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 JEDI* »_1986 jetta gli, its time to take your meds.
























Seriously 1986, instead of trying to figure out somebody else's problem just get a EIP stg.I if you really want a turbo and let EIP install it, Im sure you wont have any issues,


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
The stalling issue is very minor issue and is mostly handled by the ECU, we are increasing the response time to avoid any stall but it is very minor at worst. BTW: The thread you are referencing is an R32 and the tuning and ECU's are completely different. 
As for an update for the 2.8L 24v...it is primarily the Stage-2 cars we are going to be working on and this will happen in December when we have time scheduled to get back on the dyno. Once done we will announce the updates. 
-Rich

Rich it's been a while!! With the new update in December can there be a injector upgrade for the stage 2 kit as well? It is much needed for the power levels that you advertise and for the car to run consistently at those power levels without the duty cycle being maxed all the time.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Apparently I am on EIP's ignore list now seeing as how people who haven't purchased EIP's products are answered and I (having spent ~$8000) get passed over. 
Do you (EIP) know that I wouldn't be at all bitter if my concerns were simply acknowledged?


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

yeah sucks, well i guess ull see in december, hugh


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
can someone explain this, how is this possible, stock software etc? 315whp?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
Apparently I am on EIP's ignore list now seeing as how people who haven't purchased EIP's products are answered and I (having spent ~$8000) get passed over. 
Do you (EIP) know that I wouldn't be at all bitter if my concerns were simply acknowledged?

I think that we are both on there IGNORE list. I'm up on you almost $3k more to total $11,000 on the motor / VR6-Specialist work. The constant phone calls, delays, train rides, and shipping the car back & forth. Even after I paid for it to be done correctly the first time. I want my car back running or not!! Things are just taking too long to be completed and now December before a UPDATE in software. I brought the kit in January. To me that dosen't sound like a completely tested and approved kit!! 
Rich will not answer my post and to add to it when I called I was told to refer to Holland for all of my support. So now I'm just stuck in the mudd when I should have went to Rothe-Motorsports from the beginning (*Rothe-Motorsports is cheaper now*!). They are only 1 hour from me and I would have a complete kit tested and dynoed with *injectors*. I gave my home town shop (MARYLAND) a go for there product and got the SKEET SKEET!!


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

So who thinks they used diff injectors to get the dynos on the EIP website?


----------



## pl2950 (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_So who thinks they used diff injectors to get the dynos on the EIP website?

I doubt it, but I do think it has a whole lot to do with the tuning. The car on their website (the gray gti) was a stage 1 first then they went to stage 2. I think it is the car that produced the stage 1 dyno up to 14psi with electronic boost controller. (the 10psi and 6spsi are of my car). I think it was used for a lot of testing so a lot of time was probably spent on the dyno and road testing. The injectors maybe close to max duty but I dont think they would do something different.


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (pl2950)*

If you OWN your own dyno,then you can manipulate it any way yu want.
Pl2950,you seem to be the only one with a good running kit?Regardless of dyno,have you ever seen your air/fuel ratio?


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_If you OWN your own dyno,then you can manipulate it any way yu want.
Pl2950,you seem to be the only one with a good running kit?Regardless of dyno,have you ever seen your air/fuel ratio? 

Don't be a smack-talker and accuse us of manipulating anything as your comments are totally without merrit. The numbers and dyno sheets we post are absolutely legitimate. They are from the exact same kit that we ship all over the world and we have MANY happy customers running our Stage-1 and Stage-2 systems. 
The power produced is on stock injectors (yes, @ 100% duty) with additional fueling supplied by secondary pump and fpr. 
Flite: I have spoken with you by email and you are also in touch with Bobby, we will be in touch with you directly when we have updates available http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Rich


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
Don't be a smack-talker and accuse us of manipulating anything as your comments are totally without merrit. The numbers and dyno sheets we post are absolutely legitimate. They are from the exact same kit that we ship all over the world and we have MANY happy customers running our Stage-1 and Stage-2 systems. 
The power produced is on stock injectors (yes, @ 100% duty) with additional fueling supplied by secondary pump and fpr. 
Flite: I have spoken with you by email and you are also in touch with Bobby, we will be in touch with you directly when we have updates available http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Rich

Rich can I get a direct E-mail update also? I do believe that there are many happy customers that have these kits but, I cannot find one stage 2 24v on the vortex without problems!!! I will patch-up this kit so that it is working. Once the car is back I will do my own independent testing of the software and equipment with another company. I hope that your update comes with a injector package so far they are not too expensive to offer with the stage 2 and the duty cycle can be reduced to run the motor safer. Maybe there are cheaper methods to produce the advertised power so that the update can be done across the entire stage 2 line. What worked in the EIP shop is just not working here. 
The short term power of the kit was shocking but, it cannot last long by just giving the injectors 100% duty cycle and calling it the day. The injector calculator that I was used gives some impressive numbers with 440 injectors at 80% injector duty (502 hp). If for some reason there was a surge of hot air running thought the system the injectors can adjust to 100% duty. 1 bar (15psi) is too much air for stock injectors and my car with the Apexi-AVCR surged over 1.2 bar (17 psi) several times. I didn't really care too much about the mechanics around the system just as long as it worked right. *You know this and it cost me a rebuild and numerous problems. *
To make this a true stage 2 kit include the injectors!! Remap the ECU properly to allow the system to adjustable properly. Stop Giving the customers the SKEET SKEET!
http://www.z31.com/software/injector.pl


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Rich can I get a direct E-mail update also?...

Better yet...we just got off the phone...no "skeet skeet" as you said. 
The reason for your issues, as we just discussed again...are do to far higher boost than recommended or safe for extended periods, this can cause the demise of any combination. 
Hopefully your tuner and shop completes your project soon and gets you the tuning you need specific for your application, our SW, even our newer updates are not going to be sufficient for your combination. 
Best of luck, let us know if you have any other questions or if we can help in any way, feel free to call or email again anytime. 
-Rich


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

If by "in touch" you mean that I've gotten one Email in the last 4 months then yes, I've been in touch with Bobby. At the time I was told I would have a beta program supplied to me that would run larger injectors and that it would be provided free of charge since it would only be a beta program. As you can imagine I was pretty interested in this. Even a beta program on larger injectors witha rough tune would be safer than how the car runs right now...and hopefully more consistant. I was also put under the impression that it would be ready fairly soon. Of course I Emailed back eager to try out the new program and to get some details of it..... No responce. Not the next day, next week, never. In fact, I never heard another thing about the fix until you posted on here a couple days ago saying that there would be one provided in December. Maybe it's true this time, but I've been hearing this same "we'll work on a fix as soon as we have a car to tune on" answer since I bought the original kit from you guys. You say that there are "MANY happy customers running our stage one and two systems" so I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you've had one or two in your shop in the last year. Rich, I'd really like to believe you but I'm really having a hard time with it. It's all been empty promises so far. It's been a year now that my car has been running like crap and there have been no actions taken to fix the problem yet. It seems like I get a promising Email every now and then to keep me calm, but nothing is done to actually fix the problem at hand. As I've said before, I know how much money EIP is making on each of these turbo kits. Something should have been done long ago to fix this program. In the mean time, I've got $8000 into a turbo kit that I can't use. I paid $8000 for ~400 reliable wheel hp at 15+psi. I'm afraid to run more than 10....Hell, I get nervouse every time I see boost and watch my a/f ratio get into the mid to upper 14s. I'm done with empty promises, I want results.


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_If by "in touch" you mean that I've gotten one Email in the last 4 months then yes, I've been in touch with Bobby. At the time I was told I would have a beta program supplied to me that would run larger injectors and that it would be provided free of charge since it would only be a beta program. As you can imagine I was pretty interested in this. Even a beta program on larger injectors witha rough tune would be safer than how the car runs right now...and hopefully more consistant. I was also put under the impression that it would be ready fairly soon. Of course I Emailed back eager to try out the new program and to get some details of it..... No responce. Not the next day, next week, never. In fact, I never heard another thing about the fix until you posted on here a couple days ago saying that there would be one provided in December. Maybe it's true this time, but I've been hearing this same "we'll work on a fix as soon as we have a car to tune on" answer since I bought the original kit from you guys. You say that there are "MANY happy customers running our stage one and two systems" so I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that you've had one or two in your shop in the last year. Rich, I'd really like to believe you but I'm really having a hard time with it. It's all been empty promises so far. It's been a year now that my car has been running like crap and there have been no actions taken to fix the problem yet. It seems like I get a promising Email every now and then to keep me calm, but nothing is done to actually fix the problem at hand. As I've said before, I know how much money EIP is making on each of these turbo kits. Something should have been done long ago to fix this program. In the mean time, I've got $8000 into a turbo kit that I can't use. I paid $8000 for ~400 reliable wheel hp at 15+psi. I'm afraid to run more than 10....Hell, I get nervouse every time I see boost and watch my a/f ratio get into the mid to upper 14s. I'm done with empty promises, I want results.

We have built many Stage-2 cars in house in the past year and we have shipped many systems all around the county and the world. Each Stage-2 runs very strong, afr's tend to be a bit high as with yours, but with conservative timing the cars are capable of running beyond 15psi and pull hard to the rev limiter. As we have always said, do not run high boost for extended periods with this setup but they do pull hard and strong.
No empty promises are intended, I have been clear with you (as has Bobby) that we have not had time to spend on upgrading the SW for use with larger injectors. It is purely a matter of time that we do not have...nothing more. We know the tuning is not flawless but no FI tuning really ever is, we do know that it works well and pulls hard as you have told me yourself, we just suggest not beating on the car constantly. The occasional 1320 even at 15psi (provided fuel pressure, etc is correct) should not be a problem. 
As we offer upgrades we will make them available, until we can devote the time to complete these types of projects there is not much we can say other than we will do it as soon as we possibly can. 
-Rich


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

howbout devoting more time on the "regular" model gti 24v then on the crazy R32, as i have it A STage 1 R32 system is running fine, so leave that alone, get the gti 24v kit stage 2 to run well, and only after that u should complete the R32 stage 2. Time should be spent at the problem in hand not the R32 stage 2kit that alot are waiting for. Im nolonger thinking twice on writing this stuff ot eip, because of the stage 2 problems and the fact that i want more power now im probably trading my gti into an 01' and 02' s4, luck to u donwon and flite, it will be a while for u guys.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

**** this scares me what if i had to put up with this at the age of 17, looks like the s4dreams will come true. 
$25,000
Ok, I'm serious this time. Some things have changed and I'm really going to let go of my GTI. I've got a 2005 S2000 on the mainland waiting for me to sell this car now. It is a 2004 VR6 GTI. The mods are as follows
Basic car: $25,000 out the door.
EIP stage 2 turbo kit: $5,995
EIP 3" competition series exhaust with dual 3" tips: $879
EIP 3" high flow catalytic converter: $199
EIP competition short shift: $99
EIP Dogbone motor mount: $99
Turbosmart 38mm Ultragate: $249
Turbo shipping: $400
Apex-i AFC-R: $429
Autometer 20psi boost guage: $89
AEM wideband 02 guage: $380
KW coilovers: $1200
ASA 17" AR1 wheels: $1300 shipped
That's over $36,000 I've got into this car is it sits right now. That also doesn't include the nearly $4000 worth of installation costs. The car has run 13.7 and trapped over 108 mph on street tires at just 10psi. As far as I know there isn't a faster Hawaii VW on street tires aside from a modified AWD R32 who went quicker but at a lower mph. I'll sell the car for $25,000 as it is now or for an extra $600 I'll throw in a custom ECU and 680cc injectors that will allow 16psi plus on pump gas. The custom ECU and injectors cost me $1300. I also have all the stock parts off the car. On the streets this car eats STIs, EVOs, Mustang, F-bodies, and almost anything else you'll run into. At the track all it needs is a set of slicks to be into the 12s, and thats at only 10psi. With the custom program and injectors and 16psi, well....use your imagination. I've turned down offers of $30k on the car because I didn't want to get rid of it before. If you want TVs in your headrests and 19" wheels, this isn't the VW for you. If you want to be able to beat almost any other car on the road for thousands less than they paid, this is it. If you're interested I'd be more than happy to take you for a ride in it.
(flites car)


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_howbout devoting more time on the "regular" model gti 24v then on the crazy R32, as i have it A STage 1 R32 system is running fine, so leave that alone, get the gti 24v kit stage 2 to run well, and only after that u should complete the R32 stage 2. Time should be spent at the problem in hand not the R32 stage 2kit that alot are waiting for. Im nolonger thinking twice on writing this stuff ot eip, because of the stage 2 problems and the fact that i want more power now im probably trading my gti into an 01' and 02' s4, luck to u donwon and flite, it will be a while for u guys. 

I really have no clue what the heck you are talking about...
Our "crazy R32" (I assume you mean our Stage-4) has not been touched since it was built last May...other than taking to a few events we spend zero time on any of our own projects. 
As for Stage-2 R32, it is not in development as we are still refining SW for Stage-1, not really sure where you get your info, but it is far from accurate. 
Good luck with the S4, BTW: they discuss those in the Audi forums








-Rich


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

srry im writing giberish its not clear, but what im really trying to say is why are the stage 2's out in the market if there are problems with them?
please dont respond by saying alot of them run fine.


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_srry im writing giberish its not clear, but what im really trying to say is why are the stage 2's out in the market if there are problems with them?
please dont respond by saying alot of them run fine. 

Why are they out...because most people love them, we get positive feedback all the time. They are stronger than Stage-1 and it is what people want. Upgrades and updates are part of any FI conversion. 
Here is a link for you: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeromain?id=61 
-Rich


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
We have built many Stage-2 cars in house in the past year and we have shipped many systems all around the county and the world. Each Stage-2 runs very strong, afr's tend to be a bit high as with yours, but with conservative timing the cars are capable of running beyond 15psi and pull hard to the rev limiter. As we have always said, do not run high boost for extended periods with this setup but they do pull hard and strong.
No empty promises are intended, I have been clear with you (as has Bobby) that we have not had time to spend on upgrading the SW for use with larger injectors. It is purely a matter of time that we do not have...nothing more. We know the tuning is not flawless but no FI tuning really ever is, we do know that it works well and pulls hard as you have told me yourself, we just suggest not beating on the car constantly. The occasional 1320 even at 15psi (provided fuel pressure, etc is correct) should not be a problem. 
As we offer upgrades we will make them available, until we can devote the time to complete these types of projects there is not much we can say other than we will do it as soon as we possibly can. 
-Rich

Rich, I don't take you for an idiot, please don't take me for one. An a/f ratio in the mid to high 14s is unacceptable be it on the street or track. You've also said that EIP has installed many many kits that run strong and reliable for thousands and thousands of miles. Now you're saying that "the occasional 1320... shouldn't be a problem."? I didn't purchase the kit just to drive down the track with. It is my primary transportation. Now you're trying to sign off on this discussion with an excuse like that? The kit is designed to occasionally run down the 1/4 mile? Come on man, I didn't spend this kind of money for an occasional 1/4 mile run. Even then, after one run down the 1/4 mile I have to reset the ecu or it'll pull so much timing that I'll lose a half second the next run. There is a difference in tuning that "isn't perfect" and tuning that is piss poor. I'm not new to this game Rich. The tune on this car is dangerous. For nearly the same price you can buy an HPA kit that comes with a short runner intake manifold and tuning for big injectors that is nearly perfect. I'm curious what you as a company are so busy doing that you can't come up with a decent program in nearly a year. Other companies offer good programs so I know it's possible. Maybe you're too busy cashing sucker's checks. I don't want these same cookie cutter answers, I want to know what is being done to fix the problem. Refund some of my money and it'll cure my problem.


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_srry im writing giberish its not clear, but what im really trying to say is why are the stage 2's out in the market if there are problems with them?
please dont respond by saying alot of them run fine. 

How many times do you have to be told that you have no place in this arguement. You have zero reason to place blame and throw stones at EIP. What EIP parts do you own? A shift kit? Do you have issues with your short shift kit? If so then feel free to bash EIP's product at will. Don't use my experiance to form judgement on a product that you have zero experiance with.


_Modified by Flite at 7:19 PM 11-3-2005_


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Everything that Flite has said is 100% correct.........same with other EIP kits......you cannot defy the physical limits of the small stock inj. and higher fuel pressure via FMU.it WILL run lean.
Your hardware is decent,but you should advertise it like ATP,as "hardware only" since I don't even believe you tune anything on your software other than higher checksum for CEL,and that doesn't even work........ 


_Modified by VWAUDITECH at 11:57 PM 11-3-2005_


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_....you cannot defy the physical limits of the small stock inj....

Actually that is exactly what we do...we have been doing it for years with the 12v cars and they run an excellent afr even at 17psi with stock injectors. We apply the same principal successfully with this engine as well. The injectors are forced to flow far more fuel at higher pressure then they will at 45-60psi (stock pressure). 
*Flite:* The AFR should not be 14:1, we see an average of 12:1 at higher rpm after the cat (slightly richer post cat.). My comment about the occasional run down the 1/4 mile has clearly been misinterpreted. My point was that I do not suggest staying at full throttle indefinitely at higher boost levels....that's what I meant, not that you can run the car in boost all the time because you can run in boost every day all day, I just suggest not thrashing the car for extended periods. 
OF COURSE this system is used on daily drivers, that is the sole purpose for it's design, it is NOT a race-car package. Certainly the hardware can be used to produce far more power (stand-alone, etc), in fact it will easily produce 500+hp with no hardware changes. 
Bobby will keep you in the loop on SW updates. If you prefer to go stand-alone to create even more power and exceed 20psi...call us and we will put a TEC3 package together for you. 
-Rich


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_

*Flite:* The AFR should not be 14:1, we see an average of 12:1 at higher rpm after the cat (slightly richer post cat.). 

12:1 at higher RPM after the cat....well, you'll get a more accurate reading BEFORE the cat, but that's not enough of a concern for me to worry about. The higer RPM is. It can be safer to run a lean a/f in the upper RPM range after peak torque. 12:1 at high RPM is fine and dandy. 14:1 at peak torque is NOT ok. Torque peak is when the piston is doing the most work. There is more stress on the piston at torque peak than at redline. The rod and bearing are stressed with RPM, but the piston isn't affected as much. Torque peak is the NUMBER ONE time that you don't want any detonation. The piston is over stressed and can't take the detonation. And that's exactly where my car runs the most lean! I'm not worried about the a/f ratio at 6000rpms. I'm concerned at torque peak. It's dangerous Rich. Everybody that knows how the car runs knows it's dangerously out of tune. These aren't cheap motors. I don't want to buy another one or rebuild this one because I take bad advice from you. 
Selling me on a Tec system isn't going to work either. I'm not happy at all with how things have gone thus far, why would I spend MORE money with you guys to fix a problem that shouldn't excist in the first place? You've admitted that you recognized the problem before. There IS a problem. I want a fix from EIP free of charge for the problem at hand. Not a $3000 solution that I have to come out of pocket for.


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_...It can be safer to run a lean a/f in the upper RPM range after peak torque...

Not sure what has led you to believe this but it is VERY incorrect. 
It is true that peak torque is a high stress condition for the pistons and in particular the ring land area...IF there were a detonation problem (which there is not with our SW) then there would be risk of cracking a ring-land. Timing is the number one issue when it comes to detonation, not AFR. 
When we are discussing AFR we are talking about controlling heat...and the higher rpm range is BY FAR the most dangerous area in regard to heat soak and is the highest chance of pistons damage. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_Selling me on a Tec system isn't going to work either. I'm not happy at all with how things have gone thus far, why would I spend MORE money with you guys to fix a problem that shouldn't excist in the first place? You've admitted that you recognized the problem before. There IS a problem. I want a fix from EIP free of charge for the problem at hand. Not a $3000 solution that I have to come out of pocket for.

Chris I am not tying to sell you anything...trust me I was the one who told Bobby to advise you against going stand-alone in the first place. You have mentioned it here on this thread, you clearly said in your earlier post that you may want to go stand-alone so I simply offered to help if that is the route you want to go. 
Again, we will keep you in the loop as the *FREE* (of course) SW updates become available, I am sure it won't happen fast enough for you but there is nothing I can do to accelerate a set of updates like this. Feel free to Email me or Bobby if you have any further questions. 
-Rich


----------



## VR6 JEDI (Oct 26, 2005)

eiprich, you should go out of your way to save flite as a customer. do what it takes. don't even mention it on the vortex that you helped him. keep playing dumb. i'm sure if you come through, you will probably sell a kit or two to flite's fans. now don't be stupid eiprich. do this and you will be thanking me.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

take your time and help the guy what the hell ur just loosing customers all day yo. **** cant u respect the 8grand he given u already, dam.


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_take your time and help the guy what the hell ur just loosing customers all day yo. **** cant u respect the 8grand he given u already, dam.

Thanks for the advice yo


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_take your time and help the guy what the hell ur just loosing customers all day yo. **** cant u respect the 8grand he given u already, dam.

DID EVERYONE FORGET ABOUT ME!! I have $11,000 into the kit with a rebuilt motor!! I ran the car for a very short time and the pistons blew that is why I had to order the entire piston, rod, and injector set for the car. I didn't want to spend this much money on this car to begin with I just had very bad tuning. Flite you are right. 
Now I know a few mechanics of how things work there was no fault of my own to the motor being trashed. 
Here is the scope:
EIP only Manufactures the kit!
VR6-Specialist only installs the kit
I blew the motor under 600km of driving, blew the spark plugs, caused the idol problems, created the too lean condition, and now I have to pay the bill. For somebody who known very little other than the kit should work I really did sabotage my own car so that I can pay more money. I'm beyond help at this point and no *free*assistance is coming my way. Can someone other than my self take responsibility for this? A simple sorry dude we should have taken care of you from the beginning instead of tell you that your problems are only isolated to your car.
Flite if you run too lean wouldn't your spark plugs brake and cause idol problems? Even replacing the plugs the problem still persist to brake the new plugs also and destroy the motor!!! All of this points to a poorly designed kit not just my personal car problems. This is what happens when you run 15 PSI on stock injectors that are at 100% duty. Is the motor going to adjust them to 110% duty to correct the AFR? Proberly Not!
At this point I was told enough reasons to why my motor didn't work everything was said even the stereo! Now, I have the facts outside of the EIP / VR6-Specialist arena and it all points back to the tuner / installer. 
8 months of shop time and I still don't have my car. December is coming soon the work has takes too long. NOT MY FAULT!!
*FEEL MY PAIN*


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
Not sure what has led you to believe this but it is VERY incorrect. 


That sentance taken by itself is out of context. If an a/f ratio is just on the lean side, but not dangerously lean...say 13:1... I'm going to be more concerned with detonation at peak torque than I am at redline. Granted, I don't want to run lean at redline either. An a/f ratio in the 12s is what I'd like from 2500 all the way to redline. My point is that my main concern is what's going on at torque peak right now. The timing that is being pulled at torque peak isn't a product of your tuning.... It's a result of your tuning. It's so lean that the ECU is pulling timing as a safe guard to popping the motor. It isn't just a slight hesitation like a programed timing pull would be. It's a violent buck and almost NO power. I know it's not in programming, because after I reset the ECU it doesn't do it. It pulls cleanly through the entire RPM range, albeit at a very lean AFR. I can only imagine that with it running that lean, it IS pinging, and the ECU is pulling timing to save the motor. 
My point of not sending EMails any more is that they weren't answered. From day one, I've maintained VERY positive reviews of your turbo system inspite of the fact that I've had problems with it. I've explained to you that I've worked at a performance shop in Virginia and know that sometimes tuning cars like this has issues. I gave some lee way. I also had A LOT of people on this site very interested in my car and buying YOUR kit based on MY experiances. I thought that if I maintained a positive business relationship with EIP by keeping my concerns private and my public reviews positive, that my concerns would be addressed. After a few months of this, I was simply ignored. My Emails were no longer returned and I was given the impression that EIP had my money and they were done with me. As long as I was updated with what was going on to fix the problem I was patient, as I've said, I've been on your side and understand. Once I was ignored, I was over trying to defend your company. I know more about how a car works than 99% of your customers. I don't want a "trust me it's ok" answer. I want to know technical details of what is going to be done to fix the problem.


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

So you guys at EIP are defying physical limitiations?Incredible.
A injector rate is influenced by the PHYSICAL size of the ORIFICE(S) at the spray tip of the injector.Now raising fuel pressure will OFCOURSE increase flow,but if the PHYSICAL size of the injector spray orifice is SMALL,then NO matter how much fuel pressure is raised,you WILL be LIMITED by the PHYSICAL size of the injector.
VR injector is 2XXcc,and I have seen FLITES fuel pressure rig setup to make sure base pressure is set,and the gain screw turned in......
The car is making 14:1-13:1 @ torque peak and we all know torque peak is when cylinder pressure is highest and that is when you can have incredible pressure spikes from detonation and BREAK ringlands,etc.........
It AMAZES me that the car runs "as well" as it does with such AWFUL afr........
HOW can there be a "fix" when no matter if yu run 100%+ duty cycle on those injectors,the PHYSICAL size of the injector will inherently 
limit fuel flow........
Waiting for more salesmanship.................


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

*Did anyone read this threat? This is for RICH!! Stage 2 bigger injectors and I want mines expressed mailed.*

_Quote, originally posted by *JPLengineer* »_Hey guys,
A lot of you were trying to help me find a problem. Although my problem has been found, I still do not know how to solve it. 
Here is my situation:
I got my EIP stage 2 VR6 turbo kit installed 2 weeks ago. It worked great until a 10 days ago, where I was getting my boost, but no power.
I took my car into a shop, dynamic racing solutions of La Habra, which was recommend by many of you. The guys seem to know what they are talking about.
They put my car on the dyno. Apparently, I had a bad MAF, s it was replaced. 
My FPR is having problems, but the mechanics said it was running correct.
I am running 43 psi fuel pressure at idle, with a 16:1(fine for idle) fuel ratio. When I a boosting, I am running lean(15:1), but when I am driving steady state, my runs great. He say when I am at boost, the fuel pressure is over 100. He can not measure it over 100 because of his gauge.
So now, even if he turns the FPR all the way up, which makes me run rich at idle, I am still leaning out anything greater than 7 psi.
The mechanics says that he checked the FPR, and it is working fine. He recommends that I get some larger injectors w/ the software for it.
But what I don't understand is that this kit was an EIP kit, NOT a custom. And this kit has been proven millions of times. My logic is that if the kit needed larger injectors, then EIP would have included them in the kit several years ago.
Do you guys have ANY idea with what is going on?
He stated that I am running a 15:1 A/F ratio under boost. This problem DID get better when he fixed my MAF, but I am still having a problem.
So to sum it up: 
Normal driving - fuel is a little rich
Under Boost - Car is running lean
- Starts getting lean on anything greater than 7 psi.
What do you guys think? Bad FPR, or Fuel pump?
Please help me out, thanx guys ==> Pete 

Here is the link: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2249338
*I told you something is wrong with the stage 2 kits EIP!! No good reviews at all on this kit Rich!!*


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAUDITECH* »_So you guys at EIP are defying physical limitiations?Incredible....

I do not like to argue with anyone on the boards but we have been proving, not speculating, how to produce lots of power safely from small injectors for 10+ years. We have the most successful VR6 Turbo program (12v) and we have proven hundreds of times that we safely and reliably provide 300-350+WHP using STOCK 19lb/hr injectors. 
You can theorize all you like but it is just that...theory...what we do and have been doing is proving it. In all the time we have been building Stage-1 and Stage-2 stock management VR6's we have never had an engine fail due to our product as long as it is used with our given specs (boost level in particular). 
Here is a dyno sheet of a stock OBD2 VR6 with STOCK injectors and our Stage-2 management system, *this is fact not fantasy*: 








-Rich


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*

That car is going to have a stage 3 rebuild really soon!


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_DID EVERYONE FORGET ABOUT ME!! I have $11,000 into the kit with a rebuilt motor!! I ran the car for a very short time and the pistons blew that is why I had to order the entire piston, rod, and injector set for the car. I didn't want to spend this much money on this car to begin with I just had very bad tuning...

That is 100% false and the shop that did all of your work has told you repeatedly that it was extreme over boost that caused your issues not tuning. 
Ronald of VR6 Specialists has told me that he has warned you about the boost controller yet when the car was returned to him he said boost was up to 23+psi. This is not at all where boost should have been and it is completely clear why you had a piston fail. 
Regardless Ronald is still working with you and will hopefully give you everything you want...but we are not involved at all in this process. 
-Rich


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_
Here is the link: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2249338
*I told you something is wrong with the stage 2 kits EIP!! No good reviews at all on this kit Rich!!*

Hey Don....that is referencing a 12v kit...the guy has a 2001 which has a 12v engine....the management and kit are NOTHING AT ALL like what you have. 
Do a little reading...there are tons of positive reviews on our 12v kits and now same with R32 kits and there have been several on our 24v kits as well. 
We do not offer a Stage-3 at this time so anything you are doing now has nothing to do with us. I keep telling you either on the phone or email and now on this thread...your car is not going to be able to use our managment because we do not offer a Stage-3 big injector setup. 
I am sure your shop in Holland (where your car has been) will be able to get you what your after http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Rich


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_
That is 100% false and the shop that did all of your work has told you repeatedly that it was extreme over boost that caused your issues not tuning. 
Ronald of VR6 Specialists has told me that he has warned you about the boost controller yet when the car was returned to him he said boost was up to 23+psi. This is not at all where boost should have been and it is completely clear why you had a piston fail. 
Regardless Ronald is still working with you and will hopefully give you everything you want...but we are not involved at all in this process. 
-Rich

I love this quote feature. I need to use this during one of my office meetings in the near future.
Rich why don't you read this. The car never made it that high because the Apexi-AVCR was not connected until the car went back to holland for the Spark plug / Programming issue. 
READ THIS:
During the time in question I didn't have the programming on the motor at the time so the car was set to 4000 RPM's. If I can get 23 psi that low then that is one bad turbo!! Once the APEXI controller was installed I drove it from Holland in the off position which is .5 BAR along way from 23 psi! I have e-mails for days about what I didn't do!!
*From: "VR6specialist.com" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert 
To: "donald ricks" <[email protected]> 
Subject: boost 
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 18:19:36 +0200 

Donald, we cannot get the boost higher then 0,6 bar??? with duty cycle of 100%
Did you notice the same?
Gijs is inspecting the boost pipes for air-leak.

regards*
*I never did anything wrong to the car once again!*



_Modified by DONWON at 1:51 AM 11-7-2005_


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*

That was the first time the car was delivered to you, the piston was not damaged at that time. 
Ronald told me himself that when you took the car against his wishes (he was not finished but there was a show you wanted to attend or something) the car came back running 23+psi boost and was then damaged. 
FWIW: I do not believe you intentionally did anything wrong, in fact I wish you had never had them install a boost controller as we would not be having this conversation. 
You are working with him now and you have some new parts and I am sure that our Stage-2 hardware will work wonderfully for your upgrading to Stage-3. If you still have the car when you return to the US I am confident that we will be able to offer you all the support you need with any direction you choose to go. 
-Rich


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

here are tons of positive reviews, and there have been several on our 24v kits as well. where are these review please post them.?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eiprich* »_That was the first time the car was delivered to you, the piston was not damaged at that time. 
Ronald told me himself that when you took the car against his wishes (he was not finished but there was a show you wanted to attend or something) the car came back running 23+psi boost and was then damaged. 
FWIW: I do not believe you intentionally did anything wrong, in fact I wish you had never had them install a boost controller as we would not be having this conversation. 
You are working with him now and you have some new parts and I am sure that our Stage-2 hardware will work wonderfully for your upgrading to Stage-3. If you still have the car when you return to the US I am confident that we will be able to offer you all the support you need with any direction you choose to go. 
-Rich

23 PSI was impossible because he shipped the car to me on a truck. On the day of the show the boost controller was set to off. We only drove 120KM on cruise to the show. After the show 1 block away the car broke down in the middle of the road because of chip failure and shipped back to Holland by truck. We followed a big car show van and trailor and didn't race!!

_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Ok it's official now I give-up. 10,000 kit now time to cut my looses and go. I went to Bodensee tuning world in 4 days they had a record breaking amount of people come out and showed support. The red bora had the spot light with vender's want to buy a mass haul of EIP tuning products. Men in black wanted to know everything I could tell them about the kit and I could only tell them the truth. I had oil all over the carpet the stinted bad when it was on. On the trip back home from one of the largest car shows here my favorite friend decided to come back ECU failure. Well that settled that in front of the all of those people with the big VR6 Specialist logo on the back and me telling the world how much this garbage cost!! On top of that I was just embarrassed and passed by the whole VW tuning crew who liked the car. Do you know how people just love to see broken tuning cars!! I hope that this does not do anything bad for the company who provided the kit and the company who installed it. Only 37,000 people where there on Sunday. The next car event I will be attending is Recaro tuning days at the Hockenheim ring. There we were going to get those 1/4 mile times so that I can compare with Flite but that is a huge








Also I wanted to make note of this so that no one will not be confused the car was started and ran everyday. The radio install was not the cause of this or any other problems. 
The car came to me by tow truck driven to the car show started everyday and came back home by tow truck. I hope that your kit holds Flite.

This is what I posted during the time in question. I went to pick up the car in Holland 3 1/2 hours away and it didn't run due to chip failure while I was at work the car was shipped to me on the night before set up. Lest than 10 hours later we traveled to the car show in the morning not speeding at all. 
If my boost controller was hitting 23 PSI it was not doing it then. So that means that the car had to have bad pistons in Holland. The car was very low in the boost levels when I had it. 
Is the WASTE GATE SPRING capable of holding 23 PSI?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Donald you could have a 3psi wastegate spring installed in the car, and if you have a boost controller you could turn it up to 23. I have a 7lb spring in mine and have it turned to about 10. You've also told me before that you ran the car at 17psi. Now you're saying it was only run at very low boost. 
This is the problem with my arguement. There are so many people argueing that the kit is a piece of crap without any sort of credibility or even the slightest technical knowledge. I don't want EIP to put me in that catagory as well. I'M having issues with my kit and I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. Donald, in my opinion you shouldn't have even turned the kit up to 17 without first checking your a/f ratio. If it was up to 23, then it is entirely your fault. 
1986dude...PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP ARGUEING ABOUT SOMETHING YOU HAVE NO PLACE IN ARGUEING!


_Modified by Flite at 6:31 PM 11-5-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Flite the time that the car was running that high was when I was in Holland. Me and Ronald were both sitting in the car when it would creep into 1.3 bar of air. The car was pulling so hard I throught that it had 450WHP. Even in the off position the car would creep into .6 bar being that the minium is .4. We did some road testing in Holland with the EIP programming installed and Ronald was doing adjustments on his notebook computer and watching for problems from the computer. At the time the APEXI-AVCR was something new to me and I didn't have time to learn how it worked so I left it in the off position.
It is that same as when you left your set at 10 PSI. I DID NOT ADJUST OR TAMPER WITH IT. *I didn't know how to even turn it or so I left it alone. My knowledge of it was that low.* Now the XX time at the shop after the spark plug was changed Ronald left the controller set to 1 bar but I couldn't drive the car because of the chip problem!! To my knowledge who would set it to 23 PSI? How did it return running 23 PSI. If you read the e-mail that I posted the boost pipes were not aligning when I brought the car back to HOLLAND is was not a very big issue due to the fact .6 bar in the off position was being created but anything else higher was leaking out of the system. The rubber peices or something was not fitting or slipped of. I don't know it was in HOLLAND!! I didn't even drive the car because it was a car show weekend and we spent the whole time cleaning it. 
Now during the time in question is the Bodensee car show. I paid for the car to be shipped to me from HOLLAND (not driven). The next morning we drove to Bodensee very slow with the controller set to the off position. One block from the car show the motor died (chip) so again the car was shipped to my house. 1 or 2 days later Ronald sent his truck to pick up the car while I was out working. SOMETIME IN BETWEEN I HIT 23 PSI. The motor wasn't running 23 PSI in the middle of the car show!! Maybe the damage was done in Holland and now it is my fault. *I don't even want the car back until I can see that the AFR is correct.*
This time I didn't even have time to put wheels on the car due to ENGINE problems! The can had to sit in the show like this.
Bodensee! 
































*From: "VR6specialist.com" <[email protected]> View Contact Details Add Mobile Alert 
To: "donald ricks" <[email protected]> 
Subject: Re: boost 
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:12:24 +0200 

solved., we changed the boospipe.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "donald ricks" <[email protected]>
To: "VR6specialist.com" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: boost

>I never driven the car hard!!I don't know what the
> boost was on the car but I had the Apexi computer
> turned off.
>
>
> --- "VR6specialist.com" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Donald, we cannot get the boost higher then 0,6
>> bar??? with duty cycle of 100%
>> Did you notice the same?
>> Gijs is inspecting the boost pipes for air-leak.
>>
>> regards*
*DID you read the e-mail maybe he fixed the boost pipes left it at 100% duty and hit 23 psi and then had chip failure. Again this was all in Holland. I don't even know what or how to adjust the duty!!*


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_I don't have the car at the moment. I only take it to car shows and drive it on the weekend and some local trips. When I first gotten the car back from the program being installed it was pulling so hard that I thought something was wrong. I really don't know how much power 1.3 bar of pressure equals. Since then the car has been parked in the radio shop for almost 3 weeks. We started the car several times just letting it idol to recharge the batteries. Prior to the car show I took the car out and drove it that is when the other problems started. The engine light always been on since the install months ago but know the car is running good and then the engine lights starts to flash and no more power. I turned the boost to .7 bar and that works fine in higher speeds on the Autobahn but if I push it the engine light is flashing and the motor shuts down again. I hope that this helps to determine the problem. or some advice on what to look for with settings. I don't have the instruction disk since the install was done by the distributor. A little trouble shooting would help.

This is my post reguarding the issues This is when I was in phone contact with Ronald on the first problems. I had the controller set in the off position the entire time. He told me to go into setting A and turn the boost bact to .7 and that is what I did. Again during the time of driving the controller was set to off. We drove the car to the paint shop where the big wheels were going to be put on and the finders were going to get done. At the same time the entire front end was going to be painted. It never happened because VR6-specialist kept the car!!

_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_We'll as of today I think that the problem was found. A faulty spark plug. I took 3 weeks to find the problem







. The car hasn't even broke 1000 miles on it yet since the turbo install. If the spark plug was the problem from the beginning maybe that is the reason that the engine light was on all the time and later the problem gotten worst. On top of all that what made me so mad was that this could have been found along time ago and replaced. For the turbo guys I wonder what spark plugs will be safe to run with in the car. The NGK's that came with the kit are hard to find here what other brands of plugs will work with the car? Bosch is huge and they always have parts on stock and there shipping time is within 2 days here does anyone know?


Here are some of the problems during the time of the spark plug issues. Again while the car was in Germany it sat in the stereo shop and the boost controller was set in the off position. This was the same time that 

_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Why am I the only one who is having so many problems with this kit!!!







Today was the deadline for me to pick up my car and the computer doesn't work. The car has been in Holland for a total of 2 1/2 months with no insight of when it will be up and running. All I ask for is that the car runs and the problems fixed (this is too much now). Someone needs to call me (NOT AND E-MAIL) 0114962213955781 this is for you Rich!! Holla at YO BOY in Holland and get the car fixed. I went there today and thought that things will be OK for the pick up. I left with a list of problems that should have been addressed concerning the car. I've been doing more and more research for parts and other things that seems to be the shops work. What could make the ECU go bad on the day of pickup? I can tell you this much I've heard enough. The car has been there with out no one working on it and no questions being asked to get it right and the quick solution is that EIP did something wrong(that's what YO BOY said). I never received the installation disk so this will be the first task that needs to happen. I would take it in an e-mail if you can fit it or just mail it to me VIA POST. I want a car to make it to car shows not sit in some parking lot. Someone needs to find out what's going on and make it right. Things are really looking bad and I don't care for the blame game of EIP sent the wrong thing and the software is bad, or the guys in Holland did it wrong and now its the customers fault ME!!!







He is your authorized dealer and should back your products as much as you do. The line of communication need to be connected to find a common solution. There needs to be a daily check up of the progress so that on the day of pick the car is not in pieces and the excuses start as to buy more of my time. Also I think that now is the time for someone just to take responsibility for servicing of the car and the TURBO products installed. This means that a checks and balance needs to be done soon. This car is sponsored and need priority to make me and the vender's money/HAPPY. 

Please REREAD this post closely and look at the part of I will not touch the car until after the next car show!!

_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_If this is a reply for me then the BOV was not the issue. I just picked up the car off of the tow truck and now the car is running fine. The shop in Holland replaced the chip and did some other things to it to get it smooth. I'm not going to touch the car until after the next show is over and I have down time for the car. Again if this reply was to me the BOV was not the issue. Today alot of changes has been made with the car. After talking to Rich and Bobby they really calmed down by reassuring me they really were working my issues. I don't think that the problems with the car has been encountered before so this situation is really unique. Everything as of now is working. The idle is fine again but the engine light remains on. If this is a normal function or some problem involving because of the warning codes this is where I need the PROS to step in. I loved the quick response to the problem I just wish that we could have come to a conclusion before peoples tempers start to rise. I don't need the car for and everyday driver so I'm not dependent on it for transportation. The worst problem is that the ride is sponsored and need to be in the shows selling products. I explained to Rich that when the car is at the shows everyone wants to know what's under the hood







So I tell them EIP TUNING STAGE 2 TURBO FROM VR6 Specialist in Holland. If I had the short shifters, air intakes, and some of the inexpensive products EIP sells they will make a killing in the first day of the show. When the car is there the radio products go quick imagine if I had tuning parts with me







So even with all this being said I don't want to have the products installed on the car not working. I didn't just get look at because the car is stock I got looked at because the car is a magnet for tuners.



_Modified by DONWON at 10:23 PM 11-6-2005_


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

This is interesting guys I have watched this pretty closely for a long time now, and all I can say is 13-14 afr's? You gotta be kidding me...
Anyways I hope you guys get your isht straightened out.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*

Here is an UPDATE.
The latest e-mail that I have is from Ronald. 
*So again we cannot finish the car?
I have to spend lots of time searching a way to solve this EIP pistons noise problem.
So I'm again not happy*
I do not know what the Piston noise problem is. I think that since the motor is bored out the knock sensors are picking up everything. I asked Ronald if he had replaced the injectors so that the motor is getting enought FUEL! Still no answer. I will be getting my car back this weekend. I really don't car if I drive it home at this point!!! I'll ship it straight to ROTHE. 9 MONTHS IN THE SHOP AND THIS IS THE BEST!!!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Here is an UPDATE.
The latest e-mail that I have is from Ronald. 
*So again we cannot finish the car?
I have to spend lots of time searching a way to solve this EIP pistons noise problem.
So I'm again not happy*
I do not know what the Piston noise problem is. I think that since the motor is bored out the knock sensors are picking up everything. I asked Ronald if he had replaced the injectors so that the motor is getting enought FUEL! Still no answer. I will be getting my car back this weekend. I really don't car if I drive it home at this point!!! I'll ship it straight to ROTHE. 9 MONTHS IN THE SHOP AND THIS IS THE BEST!!!

Once again I have a hard time telling what you are trying to say... But I'll make an assumption. You have forged pistons now and when the engine is cold you're getting some piston slap. It's pretty normal. The problem is that you are trying to run on an ECU which "hears" that piston slap as knocking and retards your timing. Sounds lovely. Welcome to built motors. I'm pretty sure at this point you're going to have to run some sort of stand alone engine management which means you're going to have to talk to the Roth boys anyway to get one of their intake manifolds so that you can convert to a cable throttlebody. Have fun...


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

how much would some custom software/injector settup cost from hpa, about?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

One million dollars. Or you could just buy a complete grassroots HPA kit and it'll be included and run perfectly.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

I have to see what ROTHE can do. I will start on this as soon as the car is back. They use the ECU to run there motors and they look like the best option for the job. The motor has been in the car for almost 3 weeks and running on and off. At this very moment I cannot believe that things are still taking this long. At the end of this week I will see if the problems are solved by Ronald. If now why waist time letting it sit for another 4 months straight? I can be working on the next mods and take it to a shop that will dyno tune the car and get it done right. 
Til this day I'm very mad that Ronald had months to dyno test the car and give my the sheets to prove that everything was working correctly. *He did not do that until the 5th cylinder was not holding boost!!!*
I'm not going to wait until If have the car and the motor are having problems and it sat for 4 months and not had one day of DYNO TESTING to find the problems. *THIS IS THE WRONG ANSWER!* Being that I have to pay for all of this why not save time and money and try another route. The worst thing that can happen is that someone will find a way to get it to run correctly. I the car do come back to me before I have proof that the current equipment is not damage then I will have to pay extra money for that stuff to be checked.
As of now now one can tune my car!! If they can then it would have been done. Parts are there but no one knows what they can do or how to properly integrate them into the mechanics of the motor. 

_Modified by DONWON at 10:55 PM 11-14-2005_


_Modified by DONWON at 10:56 PM 11-14-2005_


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (Flite)*

HGP/HPA charge 1000$ for chip tuning+head spacer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*

At this moment I wouldn’t go to another shop to tune the engine, if it's goes wrong, it will be your responsibility and you'll have to pay again. I do understand that you want the car back, but until it is not finished I would wait. If it’s not running good or the numbers are not what they promised you, then you are in a position to contest with proof. 
ROTHE or HGP have a completely different configuration, and they use a head spacer to reduce the CR, so it’s a different setup with different software. I don’t think they are willing to write software for hardware they did not produce.
Good luck.


----------



## DanielT (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (foffa2002)*


_Quote, originally posted by *foffa2002* »_HGP/HPA charge 1000$ for chip tuning+head spacer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Well not quite. That price is for old ECU without DBW.
Modern HGP/HPA software for 24v applications is in the $2500+ region without headspacer. But still, it is good software.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DanielT)*

That's stand alone price....


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (Flite)*

yes
But you get a 11sec quartemile bolt on kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (foffa2002)*


_Quote, originally posted by *foffa2002* »_yes
But you get a 11sec quartemile bolt on kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

HPA's grassroots single turbo kits are running 11s? Show me.


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (Flite)*

Daniels software is for DBW = several 11sec HGP/HPA car .
My car trapped 120ish with last years small turbo and only 2,3l so with their software you will be able to hit 11s


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (foffa2002)*


_Quote, originally posted by *foffa2002* »_Daniels software is for DBW = several 11sec HGP/HPA car .
My car trapped 120ish with last years small turbo and only 2,3l so with their software you will be able to hit 11s 

Good luck. Post time slips if you do it.


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Yes,please post some 11sec. HPA slips........I only see their 30K twin turbo kit cars doing that.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

Just an update. 
The pistons are hitting the top of the intake manifold. Ronald said that this is causing the knock sensors to go off. He estimates that the pistons and rods expand under heat 0.03 mm too long. He has to machine the pistons alittle and place them back into the car next week. I'm looking to receive the car the first week of December!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

what tuning/injectors is it running right now?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

I might be wrong until I have the car back with a list of everything. The injectors are 440.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_Just an update. 
The pistons are hitting the top of the intake manifold. Ronald said that this is causing the knock sensors to go off. He estimates that the pistons and rods expand under heat 0.03 mm too long. He has to machine the pistons alittle and place them back into the car next week. I'm looking to receive the car the first week of December! 

The pistons aren't hitting the top of the intake manifold. Nothing about your car makes sence. If you have forged pistons, you might have a little piston slap which as I said a long itme ago, could cause your knock sensors to freak out. If that's the case (which it most likely is) then it's normal and as I also said earlier, you won't be able to run on a modified ECU.
What programming are you supposed to be running? If the car is starting, you have to know what kind of engine management you're running


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Yeah the only thing the pistons could hit is the bottom of the head. If that was happeneing ... well then I could only imagine that would be very bad. I think Flite is right...


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*

That is just what I gotten from the E-mail that Ronald has sent me. I don't know what piston slap is! If the problem is solved by machining the pistons then that would be fine. I really don't even care for the turbo anymore. It cost me too much time and money for there to be any more problems. I just want the car back and running!


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Man! I am seriously feeling BAD for you now....yu are LIVING the VW turbo NIGHTMARE!! I have built 20+ turbo cars and NEVER had issues like that.Send it to me and I will have you running reliably!


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

Ronald seems like they dont know what their doing, just bring the car back to U.S. sent it to eip or some other tuner, should be much faster


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

This is something that is on my mind. I will try one more option if Ronald doesn't get it to work. The car might just end up in the states way before I'm supposed to come back home. This stuff is crazy and now it's holiday season!! So the next thing is that the shop will be closing for Christmas and new Year's! 
I have the next car show for March already and I promised that the car will be ready in December. The bad thing is that the ride will be worked on during off hours for the shop. It is not interfering with normal business car. So for the rear seats to be removed false ones to be put in there place with 1 laptop, 2 flat PC monitors, 2 more amps and woofers might take the rest of this year all the way until the car show.


_Modified by DONWON at 1:26 PM 11-23-2005_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

This up date is not so great.
I do not get anymore e-mail replies from Holland anymore!! The dead line is 16 December for delivery of the finial product. As of now the Head is back in the shop and things are supposed to be back on the car on the 7 December. My fingers are crossed so that I can have my car back again!! 
This is going to be a great Holiday season


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Let's have a bet as to who's car will be running good first...


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

im not giving names but the person who has got his car in the U.S.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

not giving names?? you're not even giving complete sentences...


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (Flite)*

I vote most entertaining thread on the Vortex. Any takers ?


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (darrenewest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darrenewest* »_I vote most entertaining thread on the Vortex. Any takers ? 

1


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

how bout most entertaining thread in the 24V forums?


----------



## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_how bout most entertaining thread in the 24V forums?

nah, those gas mileage threads were pretty entertaining, although this is the most entertaining one that's still alive.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (salsanacho)*

You guys are crazy!
Here is the latest update from Holland. 
The motor is assembled again and was running in the car without any noises. It is running without any boost at the moment and also with the bigger injectors.
Now the fun stuff comes!!


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (salsanacho)*

gas mileage thread 4 the win! ! haha


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_gas mileage thread 4 the win! ! haha


In my best Elvis voice:
"Thank you, thank you very much"
(not that it was all me, but I couldn't resist)















Just thought I'd drop in and see how things were going. Maybe he should "swiss cheese" the airbox on that thing. That will get it going! 









BTW....any sign of those pics of a supercharged VR6 getting 30MPG??
(ducking and running)


_Modified by jeremyc74 at 4:49 PM 12-8-2005_


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

No but I had an epiphany last night. People are getting like 20 hp from swiss cheesing their airbox right? Well I have like 10 feet of charge pipe instead of that tiny little airbox, I thin kI'm going to swiss cheese all of my charge pipe and see how much it gets me. I bet I'll gain like 40hp, and it'll sound sweet-dope! !


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

I have very good news from Holland. I think that Ronald has come though with very positive results. He has installed the big injectors and boosted the car to 1.1 bar and holding. He has found no problems as of yet and soon the car will get dyno tested. He is estimating that if all is well 1.6 bar would be no problem.


----------



## BEAU-SOF (Jan 30, 2002)

*Re: (DONWON)*

thats nice to hear man.. congrads.... freagin best news soo far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Let us know how it goes. I want to know what kind of power you get with a built motor. 1.6bar should be a non-issue. I'll run that on the stock motor before to terribly long.


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (Flite)*

1.6 bar should be a non issue for even just a headspacer in the VR. From what I hear, It's not the Pistons, Rods or crank it's the bearings which take a dump first. Next year I'm having HPA drop in some of their custom black bearings along with a set of even larger injectors and appropriate programming.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (darrenewest)*

money wise (labor-costs), wouldnt it be more practical to do more to the internals in one time, not just the bearings and programing?


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

Stock internals, can and have handled 500 HP on any VR incl 12v. The bearings are a longevity issue. Labour to do the (rod) bearings is no big deal and can be done by just dropping the pan in a few hours.
This is as far as I will go with the internals. My ultimate goal has always been 350 WHP, but now I have that: I'm going for 400ish .... But have elected to change out the bearings before pushing it any further along with possibly GT series side mount intercoolers and a few little updates.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

where do you get all this info on hpa technology i.e. gt intercoolers and stuff, i cant seem to find anything in the english language?


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

The fact that he has one of the first 24V HPA grassroots turbo kits help.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Now, it is 2 days before the next deadline to pick up the car. I called Ronald and he just informed me of another problem!!







. The gearbox is leaking alot of oil. He said that in 5 and 6 gears the oil is squirting out from the bottom of the car.
I wonder if he had a sponsored car for car shows and tuning events would he be able to make a complete functioning machine with in 6 months? NO!!
Every problem is a cause for more money. Now since the gearbox has to be checked I can get my hands on a new 500HP clutch kit also.
*Lucky Me Again*
I bet that next month I would be advised just to buy a new car. I cannot believe this B.S. Every-week something is wrong right before pick-up. I'm mad







.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

OMG, DUDE, GET YOUR CAR OUT OF THAT FREAKKKING SHOP, WTF, JUST TAKE IT TO hgp OR SOMETHING, YOU SHOULDNT BE THE ONE PAYING FOR THE TRANNY SHIISSH, THEY should cover that, or your car was in really bad shape when u took it in


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_OMG, DUDE, GET YOUR CAR OUT OF THAT FREAKKKING SHOP, WTF, JUST TAKE IT TO hgp OR SOMETHING, YOU SHOULDNT BE THE ONE PAYING FOR THE TRANNY SHIISSH, THEY should cover that, or your car was in really bad shape when u took it in









I have stayed out of this thread for a while, but VR6 Specialist is a capable shop...
Remember, you are hearing one side of a story...I think this would sound quite different if they were in here...


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_
I have stayed out of this thread for a while, but VR6 Specialist is a capable shop...
Remember, you are hearing one side of a story...I think this would sound quite different if they were in here...


VR6-Specialist is a very capable shop but, they are really doing a great job at the moment. This car was never driven hard. It had less than 20,000 miles on it before the turbo. I walk to work and just really travel to shows or events with this 1 car out of my 3. I did not have oil leaking from the gear box or blown motor when I gave it to VR6-Specialist. 
Why is it happening now?
Can you explain to me what is the problem?
I can tell you something it's like clock work the car is running good by Wednesday and Thursday its a catastrophic failure that everything has to be rebuilt and no one on planet Earth has the parts available!


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Ronald has told me that he can get me a new clutch and have the work done by next Friday if it is there on Tuesday. I DO NOT HAVE ANYMORE TIME FOR THIS. Everyweek something new is broken that was not broken before. 
I just wanted a stage 2 EIP kit properly installed that is all.
While on the phone with Ronald it was like begging for my car back. I understand that he cannot get the car to the dyno shop so I will do it. There was supposed to be a video sent to me of how well the car is running and it never came/worked when I downloaded it. 
Since the gear box was working properly before I think that he should cover the charges to repair it before I purchase a 490 euro racing clutch. Last night we talked over the phone for almost an hour so that I can have the car shipped back to me. 
*I really don't think that it will make it back to Holland!!*


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Why dont you think it will make it to holland? Do you mean driving it back?
Why doesnt the video work? Can you post it somewhere? I bet I can get it to work. If you dont have anywhere to put it I can let you upload it to my ftp at the office, shoot me a PM.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*

This weekend I was supposed to pick-up my car Holland no matter what. I tried to arrange through Ronald to have the car shipped back to me. I made arrangements with a transporter to get the car back and have it go to the transmission shop near me. Needless to say I don't have the car. Ronald said that he will keep the car because other mechanics working on the car is bad business. I have the e-mail pictures of the gearbox outside of the car and what looks like damage. 
I don't know what could have caused the canter pin to brake off and put a hole in the gearbox cover! I really don't know what these parts are that broke. I explained to Ronald that he doesn't have to continue the work on the car and it should be returned. He wants to send the car back 100%. 
This is giving me a very bad feeling. More than six months of waiting can anyone understand I JUST WANT THE CAR BACK! Out of all things happening I will not have my car back until after New Years. Next week the car will be running 500WHP and no problems until the day that I get it, then the car will just blow-up.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

your car is Ronalds/Eip's guinnea pig, its for research and development at your cost, and your own cash, 
ouch, someone could of bought an m3 and supercharged/turboed that? just kiding.


----------



## lightsout (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo EIP (DONWON)*

you should get yourself a engine management. and you should be able to make over 600 to wheels with that setup or i would sell it back.
i know this because i own a gold jetta 24v vr6 turbo with stock internals making 570whp with the aid of arp head, rods, main studs and SP racing head spacer. And i drive this car everyday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo EIP (lightsout)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lightsout* »_you should get yourself a engine management. and you should be able to make over 600 to wheels with that setup or i would sell it back.
i know this because i own a gold jetta 24v vr6 turbo with stock internals making 570whp with the aid of arp head, rods, main studs and SP racing head spacer. And i drive this car everyday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Pics/ Dyno available?


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo EIP (herbehop)*

i second that please give us some info on this "gold" jetta, thanks


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo EIP (1986 jetta gli)*

Just to let the Vortex Community know I have some very disturbing e-mail traffic that is going between myself, VR6-Specialist and EIP-Tuning. Some of the stuff that is said between all of us really brings out the Holiday Spirit.
It's almost like who will take responsibility for the damages to the car. Bad tuning, late parts, lack of effort, and everyone wants money! *The Big Beware* of who you are dealing with is very evident. When things don't go right the blame game starts to spinning out of control.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

details?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Flite I'm going to FLAME this blog. I feel that the e-mail traffic and all of the stuff that I'm going through should be known. This is not my style at all so I will give alittle time for the shops to correct there problems and pull them selves out of the hole. If you didn't know before Flite then I think what I have to post will be a eye opener. I will fill in all of the details as the rest of the e-mails come.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*








interesting


----------



## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_







interesting

....................interesting......


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (darrenewest)*









Lets see those e-mails


----------



## cpchillin (Nov 12, 2004)

Well?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (cpchillin)*

This is what I have. E-mails that are really showing the behind the scenes BLAME GAME. I just cannot believe that there was so much stuff with my car involved. This is the most shocking part of all. The parts were not checked and properly prepared to be installed on my car. 
In my line of work people would be fired. I cannot believe that shipments of parts are sent over seas and there in no accountable shipping documents that display what the packages have! If the clutch or pistons are included into the shipping package there should be no doubt if the parts have arrived or not! Where is the quality of product stamps or inspection numbers? This will point out the problems to a individuals with in the ranks of EIP-Tuning. Who is at fault here?
I cannot believe that this type of mess is still going on in today's business pace world. When parts are shipped that are defective and not to specification then the distributor is liable. My pistons / rods didn't fit the motor! Who is liable for this mistake. The other parts such as the exhaust manifold hitting the bottom of the firewall cost my an additional 200 euros to be resurfaced along with the head gasket. 
My car might just be out of 100 that has very complex problems due to the install the the parts not fitting and very late shipment of items and caused by those measures not being put into place. 
The New Year is coming soon and it is the most stressful time of the year alot of people. Rich, Ronald and I have to bring this project to a close soon. I want to move onto the next project with a new objective in mind. Both companies have to create solutions not to be dependent on each other when projects run into the months and we are waiting for a clutch or spark plugs to finish.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

wtf? weird, well whatever, whats the next project?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

The radio install for this year was suposed to have several fiberglass pieces in it. We will try to don fiberglassing to the origional install and also we are adding 1 CPU, 2 monitors, 2 more amps + Subs, and wireless LAN. I have a very bad feeling that the motor won't be ready before the next phase of the stereo and paint.
Check this out I also gotten a E-mail form Holland saying that they were not aware that this car was going to enter Car Shows until they started to get behind and I was rushing there work!


----------



## apexslider (Oct 23, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_wtf? weird, well whatever, whats the next project?

that's how I feel about this whole thread! There is some good info in here and it was nice to see Rich chime in. It did take EIP 6 months to finally get me my full 12v kit, and the customer services was questionable at best (which Rich did address)...the product looks amazing! Although I did not get any instructions! But if you think EIP is slow, try getting a motor from WRD, I've been wiating for about 6 months on that one too, I was told 8 weeks







. I love it when they have you by the short and curlies! But I'm sure the WRD motor will be worth it once it arrives
p.s. good luck to flite


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (apexslider)*

hmm, so I thought you guys might want to know this. So there is a local shop here that I know of building a 24v turbo setup. I was talking to the shop owner about the car and he was showing me the setup, they are putting a GT30R on it and so I asked him about management. THe first time I talked to him about the car he told me they were doing a custom Autronic setup. He told me they were getting bigger injectors for it also. So I was back in the shop the other day and he was telling me, "Oh we just got the injectors for the 24v Turbo setup ..." so he was showing them to me and said they were stock injectors modified to 36#. He said they did that because they couldnt get any other ones. So he then went on to tell me that they were getting software from EIP. I was like, "EIP has software for bigger injectors?" "Yes." He said that it was still quite in development and that they would probably need to have EIP made modifications to the software and go through a few versions before the car is done. I would assume they ditched the whole Autronic idea and decided to go back with the OEM computer. I didnt ask him why- maybe the owner wanted to save some money.


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

^thats possible, I don't know exactly what they are doing for tuning on the 24Vs but I know that they were going to be working on some new management this winter...


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_hmm, so I thought you guys might want to know this. So there is a local shop here that I know of building a 24v turbo setup. I was talking to the shop owner about the car and he was showing me the setup, they are putting a GT30R on it and so I asked him about management. THe first time I talked to him about the car he told me they were doing a custom Autronic setup. He told me they were getting bigger injectors for it also. So I was back in the shop the other day and he was telling me, "Oh we just got the injectors for the 24v Turbo setup ..." so he was showing them to me and said they were stock injectors modified to 36#. He said they did that because they couldnt get any other ones. So he then went on to tell me that they were getting software from EIP. I was like, "EIP has software for bigger injectors?" "Yes." He said that it was still quite in development and that they would probably need to have EIP made modifications to the software and go through a few versions before the car is done. I would assume they ditched the whole Autronic idea and decided to go back with the OEM computer. I didnt ask him why- maybe the owner wanted to save some money. 

I have an idea why they want to keep the original ECU, it’s a lot more sophisticated than most aftermarket management systems, keeping VVT, Knock, OBDII, CAN, ESD, EPS, Transponder, and so on. Someone who knows how to programme properly the original ECU, can achieve the same power results as a stand alone management (with proper hardware) and keeping the original functions.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

goshhh, when is someone going to get the eip kit right, so we could see some drag racing action and reviews, come on, its been it seems, like 2 years now


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1986 jetta gli* »_*goshhh, when is someone going to get the eip kit right,* so we could see some drag racing action and reviews, come on, its been it seems, like 2 years now

I don't know why you're still interested to see EIP kit running right, you're selling your car














what's the point


----------



## mjille (Dec 3, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

Well i can tell you this... Im shipping my car to Eip because they needed a car to work out the bugs with there new software. I plan on giving them the car for 1-2 weeks and letting them work out the bugs in there new software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm going to sell my car all together....but let me just say this:
EIP has some serious issues they need to get straightened out, but there is far more badmouthing from people that don't have an EIP turboed car than what there should be. My car does not run as was advertised when I bought the kit. HOWEVER, don't try to make it look like my car runs like total piss. Off boost it drives like a normal GTI. It's smooth, easy to drive, and sounds great. When running it hard it has some tuning issues. It runs lean BUT it doesn't run much timing so the detonation issue isn't very substantial. It runs mid 13s out here which means it's a low 13 or high 12 second car at a normal track... ON STREET TIRES. F150 lightnings run high 13s or low 14s out here....so yes, it's a slow track. It is still a VERY fast car. 
Bottom line, I have some complaints with EIP. But, I have reason to. You people that don't have experiance with EIPs turbo kits need to stop e-racing and leave their product reviews to those of us who have their parts.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

I have not seen any bad reviews on the other turbo kit companies yet. Will someone take responsibility for my car? Was there going to be a Software Upgrade last month? Who got it? Now it is well past all of my deadlines for the car to be returned and it is frustrating. The projects from January last year is not complete. The amount of time taking I should have 1001 HP! Do cars normally take this long to build? 
*I would not be surprised if this kit doesn't sell*
Where are the kit owners that have it running perfect? I would like to have some answers on what is going on. Out of all the things that has happened to my car I don't understand why neither of the companies are covering for damages!! The kit was installed and did not do it's JOB. Everyone believes that I was doing some secrete underground tuning at my house and I opted for the Stage 3 upgrade.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_I have not seen any bad reviews on the other turbo kit companies yet. Will someone take responsibility for my car? Was there going to be a Software Upgrade last month? Who got it? Now it is well past all of my deadlines for the car to be returned and it is frustrating. The projects from January last year is not complete. The amount of time taking I should have 1001 HP! Do cars normally take this long to build? 
*I would not be surprised if this kit doesn't sell*
Where are the kit owners that have it running perfect? I would like to have some answers on what is going on. Out of all the things that has happened to my car I don't understand why neither of the companies are covering for damages!! The kit was installed and did not do it's JOB. Everyone believes that I was doing some secrete underground tuning at my house and I opted for the Stage 3 upgrade.


You are absolutely right. For the $10k in EIP parts you have, you should have the same HP as a 1.25 million dollar Bugatti.


----------



## mjille (Dec 3, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

I just hope when i bring my car to Eip they can fix this problem that i am having under boost. I can back up what Flite has been saying with Eip has there issues they need to work out.. but my car runs great in day to day driving, sounds great and starts right up(even when it was below freezeing outside and it hasnt been started in 2 months) i have to say i was impressed with that. Now when the car is under boost is another story...Sometimes it works great, no misfires, no bogging down.. and just runs fast and sounds great. When it usually misfires is at the flatspot they speak of at around 4k rpms. They are well aware of it and are working to fix it as i am told and that is why i am sending my car to them.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (mjille)*

I wounder how hong it will be before you get the car back. It's now 7 months for me and the tuning solutions should have been resolved. If you get it back in a month I will be suprised. Take some pictures to show off.


----------



## mjille (Dec 3, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Whatever happens ill keep u guys informed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_I wounder how hong it will be before you get the car back. It's now 7 months for me and the tuning solutions should have been resolved. If you get it back in a month I will be suprised. Take some pictures to show off.

Just to clarify for everyone...your car IS NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN AT EIP so your experience has no bearing on our plans with our customer who is coming to our facility. 
Also worth noting, there is no comparison between your car and a standard EIP Stage-2 24v Turbo...As you have clearly written time and time again, the shop that you have your car at in Europe (at your request) is going far beyond the standard installation and/or tuning. 
Your car (over the past 7 months as you have pointed out) has been prepared to produce beyond for 500hp which is far beyond any standard turbo offering and thus it required many hard parts and custom tuning, etc. As far as I know, the shop in Europe that has your vehicle has done everything you have requested and has produced the power you were after, unfortunately at this much higher power level your clutch has failed which is why you are now waiting on your car. 
What we are doing for our customers (mjille) at our facility is to install our latest tuning files which will help to improve consistency and we also will be finalizing our large-injector tuning which will become an option for everyone currently running our 2.8L 24v Turbo System and for those purchasing it in the future http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Rich



_Modified by eiprich at 2:49 PM 1-3-2006_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (eiprich)*

Happy New Year RICH!
We both understand that my car is in Europe along with Ronald. I look forward to seeing you soon when I take some vacation back home in Baltimore. If my car does produce over 500WHP safely I will be satisfied. The key is that tuning does take longer than what I ever would imagine and there are parts that do fail. If the next project takes such a short time then why weren't the bugs fixed earlier with the other 24V kits? 1-2 weeks is a very short time!
If the big injector kit does become available several of us will be very unhappy that it will only be offered and not standard with the STAGE 2. 


_Modified by DONWON at 8:07 AM 1-4-2006_


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Here is my latest update.
The transmission is back in the car and the car made it to the Dyno Machine. I don't have a dyno sheet as of yet but I was told the car makes 370 HP at .9 BAR. Again Ronald's computer has crashed! the second time since I've known him. I really think that it is time for him to invest in a back up. The first crash he had was when he couldn't program the chip. 
The question that I want answered is why did he only run .9 BAR with bigger injectors and refined programming? Mid January is coming soon and the car is not complete!! 
Time and time I call him and ask if the car is ready. He does not feel as if the car is ready to be released! I wonder does he need another month? Something is going to break again. I bet that my sun visors will fall down and the car has to stay another month.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

You don't know much about dyno tuning huh? You never throw a car on the dyno the first time and go for max boost. You run it at a lower boost setting, make sure everything is good, and then you press on a little further. That's not just something with your car, but EVERY car that is running an aftermarket turbo. Anyone who just slaps a turbo on the car and turns the boost up to the max is silly. If your car made 370whp at around 12.5 psi you sould be elated. In time I would turn it up to about 18 and be happy with the ~430whp that will get you. Your car isn't a Ferrari. You should be VERY happy with nearly 400whp.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Flite,
I really don't care if it is a Ferrari or a ford Escort. The amount of time and money invested I should have the car running 500WHP +. The problem is that the car did a dyno pull and I think that there were problems found that are hidden from me. How many times does the car has to be dyno tested only to get .9 BAR?
Flite you need to explain this to me so that all of us on the Vortex can understand. What is the process? The car is on the dyno machine it has the calculated potential of over 550 WHP at a much higher boost pressure. What is holding the dyno test at .9 BAR? If my car was there the whole day then I would have expected all bugs and tweaks to have been addressed. 
Does dyno tuning take another month or how long? One day on the machine should have shown some very impressive figures. I was hoping to see 1.4 BAR 430-450 WHP on crappy gas! 
Flite since I really don't know hook us all up with the answer! I need to think about why the car is not returned back to me.


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Did you _ask_ them if they did any more pulls at higher boost? If they didnt did you ask why ?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (PhReE)*

I will find out the reason why on Monday when I call! I was only told that he car was dyno tested and some adjustments had to be made. I think that the Air Fuel ratio is bad again or the car is not holding boost like it did before. The reasons are endless.
This is a failed project and I just want my car back. The timeline for all of this stuff is too long. Next weekend I will see if the car is ready for pick-up.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

I will have the car back this weekend!!







I cannot wait until I pick it up.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

I have he car back now!!
There is damage on the car that I will have to post pics later. It is night time here and I will do a full write up on the car ASAP.


----------



## 1986 jetta gli (May 1, 2004)

wtf, damage, to the body, 
o your still liable for it though right? Because Ronald wont cover that i bet, right?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (1986 jetta gli)*

YES there is damage to the underside of the car. I have taken pics today to post. The damage is to the front bumper, right side skirt, lifting points and the roll cage. 

































The shop didn't use the lift points to raise the car. They put the jack on the bottom of the roll cage and shifted the entire rol cage. All of the floor pan points are dented about 3 CM inside of the car. It looks like the huge lums in the floor. I have the fake dimond cut foot mats and they don't fit anymore.


















_Modified by DONWON at 11:19 PM 1-15-2006_


----------



## cpchillin (Nov 12, 2004)

I guess we can see who the real problem was in this whole deal! Man it sucks that they screwed your car up like that! Hopefully it can be fixed!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm beginning to think the vast majority of your problems have little if anything to do with EIP.


----------



## malezlotko (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

How could they possibly ruin the car like this. Were they trying to jack the car up by the bumpers and side skirts as well? Looks like they were trying to stall you in picking up the car becouse of the damage they did to it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif They should fully reimburse you for the damage costs to the body.


----------



## Jetta-Haup6 (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: (malezlotko)*

thats not right man, what did they say about the damage


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Jetta-Haup6)*

Ronald said that the damage was done on the dyno machine. It is very evident that the dyno machine ruins cars. If you read the other problems that I had they were also done by the dyno machine. The brake line failure and now this. He said that the bumper was done when the car hit the machine when it bounced on the rollers and the side skirts was a bad paint job.
I think that they had a accident with the car!! The car hit a rock or curb and broke the gearbox!! Would the rollers on the dyno machine do that much damage. The bumper will flex enough to avoid that much damage driving under 5 MPH!


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Looks more like an accident to me, you cannot dent the floor (enforced with the cage) 3cm just by jacking up the car or even if it bounces on the dyno (or it fall off from it).


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

What was the final result of the tuning?


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (MarcoVR6SC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MarcoVR6SC* »_Looks more like an accident to me, you cannot dent the floor (enforced with the cage) 3cm just by jacking up the car or even if it bounces on the dyno (or it fall off from it).

The damage on both sides of the car are identical. I had the stereo shop owner and also today my back up shop take a look at things. The car was not put into boost yet until I have it confirmed by another shop that the tuning was done right. I believe that the car is prepared to run good but why did it take so long and with all of the new parts why is it set only to .9 BAR!! It seems to be a long way from 500WHP! I don't even think that the car is making close to the stage 2 power that is on the *EIP video *"450 HP".
I will keep this post going until I have some answers. The car is scheduled for checks at my back-up shop the 1st week of February!!


----------



## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_ I don't even think that the car is making close to the stage 2 power that is on the *EIP video *"450 HP".


I don't think you can point a finger at EIP- At this point - you aren't even running their tuning-


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (herbehop)*

The truth is I really don't know!!
This program might be the one that EIP is using at the moment that was developed on my car. There is a possibility that the programming could be from VF since the shop in Holland sells both kits. 
At this point *I really don't care*. There was alot of trust lost and I have doubts of the reasons why the car had to stay so long!
Since I have to pay an additional 6400Euro's ($7500) for Stage 1 boost and damages I will just let the Vortex review. 
EIP was supposed to have a tuning solution ready last month in December. I bet since my car is running that there will be software ready to go all at my expense. It is a coincidence for all of the factors. I have bigger injectors without the FPR now my rear is black like a Diesel Motor and a Fart can exhaust. This is the story teller in the tuning. There will be someone with the same injectors, same setup, no FPR, and the black exhaust!!
Just watch the threads it will be there!


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_...This program might be the one that EIP is using at the moment that was developed on my car. There is a possibility that the programming could be from VF since the shop in Holland sells both kits....

That a big negative on both of the above. 

_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_EIP was supposed to have a tuning solution ready last month in December.

Again that's a big negative...the Stage-2 SW that we are working on is not what you are running, your car was custom tuned and from what I understand your car runs very well, perhaps you can post your own thoughts...but again...EIP has NOTHING to do with your project nor the tuning of your car, all we supplied was a Stage-2 Turbo System and some other hardware long ago, your car has gone way beyond our Stage-2 system. 
Glad you have your car back, hope all is well and hope you car performs to your expectations. 
-Rich


----------



## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: (eiprich)*

dude do you know anything about your own car or how tuning works? 
do you honestly think your car is running on VF engineering software? if that was the case your car wouldnt run period, and the instant your car goes into boost your car would self distruct VF software is totally different from any turbo software they arent interchangable int he slightest.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (2002gtibluvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2002gtibluvr6* »_dude do you know anything about your own car or how tuning works? 
do you honestly think your car is running on VF engineering software? if that was the case your car wouldn't run period, and the instant your car goes into boost your car would self distruct VF software is totally different from any turbo software they arent interchangable int he slightest.

Can you explain why it would not work?
I don't have time to argue about it. The car is running and the time is lost. If the car is running great that is fine. I'm scared to put it into boost!!
Look at the photos and the price is well over what I paid for or even imagined! Rothe-motorsports is by far cheaper. 
*If you have anything intelligent to post put up some numbers to explain that the software would not work!!*
1+2= The software will not work?
I can work better with numbers!! Again I had to leave the shop with a extended class on the reasons not to boost the car on the way home. 
That to me seems like work that is not backed.
"Drive it carefully, Don't keep boosting it, only give it a try in 3rd to see the torque pull"
I want to smash M5's and GT2's not cruise control and then later the shop say "I told you not to do that"


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*

VF software will work .
We acctually ran a VF stage 1 software for a Twin turbo 24v for a couple of weeks just to move the car from one garage to another 
he used the software for a couple of months before he got the right 24v software .

Just turn boost down 0,3bars and get some good fuel if you need to run VF as temporary software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_
That to me seems like work that is not backed.
"Drive it carefully, Don't keep boosting it, only give it a try in 3rd to see the torque pull"
I want to smash M5's and GT2's not cruise control and then later the shop say "I told you not to do that"


Man, I've been following this thread for a long time, and it simply amazes me.
You have one person to blame for this situation you are in, and that's yourself. Tuning a car with a turbo isn't rocket science, and this shop obviously has no idea what they are doing. You should have taken it to another shop months ago. I've seen a lot of cars on dynos, and I've never seen one come off screwed up like that. 
Even after all that, you expect EIP to take responsibility for some of this mess. The bottom line is, EIP sold you parts, not a system. When that shop started screwing around with the tuning, and changing things, there's no way EIP could cover damages, or even offer advice.
Take the car to another shop with a dyno, get them to tune it, and then plaster those pics and this story up on your local forums, so other people don't get screwed the same way you did.
If you paid up front for all this, I'd guess you are SOL, and if you didn't, the shop shouldn't get another dime.
All that said, there's usually two sides to every story, but I don't care what their side is when it comes to the body damage. There's no excuse for that. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_
Even after all that, you expect EIP to take responsibility for some of this mess. The bottom line is, EIP sold you parts, not a system. When that shop started screwing around with the tuning, and changing things, there's no way EIP could cover damages, or even offer advice.


I have e-mail traffic that shows both companies at fault for different things. Althought parts were brought from EIP that dosen't make them perfect parts!! Read the entire thread. Somethings I feel as if they should have been covered by EIP and the other stuff needs to be covered by VR6-Specialist.


_Modified by DONWON at 12:56 PM 1-17-2006_


----------



## Kenito (Oct 14, 2005)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Hi DONWON.
VR6 Specialists asked me to post these two links.
So people can see another (the true) side of VR6 Specialists.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2387618
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2394800


----------



## MingChow (Dec 23, 2005)

are those links real?
look at the dates


----------



## cpchillin (Nov 12, 2004)

The second link was a dyno day that was just done! I heard it was a blast. Unfortunately I had to work and didn't have time to go up there!


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Kenito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kenito* »_Hi DONWON.
VR6 Specialists asked me to post these two links.
So people can see another (the true) side of VR6 Specialists.


I can tell you the true side right now just look at the pictures!! This is not a everyday driver it is built for shows!!
The quality and time plus all of the parts the car is only running .9 BAR!!
Can you answer this?
What about the body of my ride?
I can understand that you want to defend the shop. Your stage 1 R32 never had the problems that my car had to begine with.
The problems were within the Stage2 2.8Liter motors from EIP. Maybe I just had the very unlucky product. You have a great machine why were there soo many problems with mines? I quess that they don't like RED.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (MingChow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MingChow* »_are those links real?
look at the dates


Looks very suspect to me. I don't care who you are, if the damage show in those pics was actually done at the shop, and they won't step up and fix it, they are screwed up, and I'd be


----------



## malezlotko (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_

Looks very suspect to me. I don't care who you are, if the damage show in those pics was actually done at the shop, and they won't step up and fix it, they are screwed up, and I'd be









Absolutely. You can have a couple success stories, but if you mess up and neglect the situation that does not make you any better then the rest. If in fact the damage to your car was caused by that shop then there should be no exceptions other then the shop fixing it.


----------



## Kenito (Oct 14, 2005)

*Re: (malezlotko)*

I've was just asked by VR6 specialists to post these links.
I'm not judging anyone here.....
I feel with you donwon. If they screwed up, they should stand behind their work and fix it! No extra expense for you.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Kenito)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kenito* »_I've was just asked by VR6 specialists to post these links.
I'm not judging anyone here.....
I feel with you donwon. If they screwed up, they should stand behind their work and fix it! No extra expense for you.

There is no love lost brother. At the time that I posted the pictures I was burning mad!! After I saw the front bumper, the engine bay, and the side skirts the next thing was to check the entire underside of the car. I saw several things that I didn't even list because it was minor and it would have looked bad on my behalf for wining.
Please don't take anything too far to the extreme. I really know that they were working SW for the motor. *I apologize for that Ronald, Rich, and Jantine.* Believe it or not the car is scheduled to return in 2 more weeks. I have spent several hours after work at the stereo shop placing the wires back into the right places. I have to make a list of wire harnesses that have to be replaced. Once my list is complete I can then try to return the wires back to there original positions. 
So far since the car has been back the only thing that has been done was to idol the motor so that the second battery will recharge. Again the car is in a very delicate phase I really don't want to lose anymore time for engine trouble. It cost me over 10,000 Euro's and do anyone really care!! There is so much money involved when you are talking about a car only costing $24,000.


----------



## Kenito (Oct 14, 2005)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Anybody got any tips / recommendations of tuning shops in Germany who is good and mounts VF kits?


----------



## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: (Kenito)*

As i see it 
HGP or ROTHE is the only tuner that can do a VRT
Their software is made by VW-old vw tech personel .
Flawless kits!
That perform good !
They are expensive and they work .
My car has been a daily drive car since 1999 and ive never had any problems with the original 12sec HGP setup.

http://www.hgp-turbo.de
http://www.rothe-motorsport.de


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (foffa2002)*

I know it's been awhile since I last put anything up on the VORTEX. Just to let the community know. As of not the car is currently in the body shop getting all of the damages repaired. The roll cage points will have to remain the way that they are. Monday next week the car is being shipped to Rothe-Motorsports. 
I have been in contact with EIP tuning to find solutions for the motor repair on the car. I have sent them detailed photos from the piston damage and also the problems. The car makes under 280 WHP even with all of this software! BEWARE. It will cost me more money for the repair and cost for the lawyer to get my money back. This is the end of the road for my tuning adventure.
the finial result of the tuning is B.S.


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_I know it's been awhile since I last put anything up on the VORTEX. Just to let the community know. As of not the car is currently in the body shop getting all of the damages repaired. The roll cage points will have to remain the way that they are. Monday next week the car is being shipped to Rothe-Motorsports. 
I have been in contact with EIP tuning to find solutions for the motor repair on the car. I have sent them detailed photos from the piston damage and also the problems. The car makes under 280 WHP even with all of this software! BEWARE. It will cost me more money for the repair and cost for the lawyer to get my money back. This is the end of the road for my tuning adventure.
the finial result of the tuning is B.S.

Once again to be crystal clear for those who may just be tuning in...EIP has NOTHING to do with the tuning or current condition of your car...the car is in Germany not in the USA. Only the Turbo System Hardware is based on an EIP setup and as far as we know this hardware has never given you any trouble.
What the problems are with your custom SW tuning (big injector, pistons, etc.) done where you are in Europe, we simply have no idea about, which is why we are unable to assist you regardless of how much information we have on your cars condition. As we told you via the phone and by email and IM, unfortunately your car went far beyond an EIP Stage-2 setup and thus we can no longer offer you guidance. 
Also as stated long ago, had the car been here in the USA (at our Maryland facility) we would have simply converted you to TEC3, and you would be making 500+whp all day long without issues, but your car is not in the USA, oem management was retained and it is unfortunate that it hasn't worked out for you, but we cannot install and tune a Stand-Alone system (like TEC3) overseas, thus we have not been able to offer you any assistance. 
Best of luck with your new direction, I hope that you are able to retain the EIP Turbo Hardware which IMHO is superior to either of the other tuners mentioned...and should provide you with excellent power to go along with your new SW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Rich


----------



## sonicGLI (Sep 23, 2002)

*Re: (eiprich)*

This DONWON fella has been confusing me since day one. Nothing he has posted has made any sense, IMO. Hell, whether folks like EIP or not doesn't even matter in this case... his issues seem so far removed from being on the shoulders of EIP at this point.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (sonicGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sonicGLI* »_This DONWON fella has been confusing me since day one. Nothing he has posted has made any sense, IMO. Hell, whether folks like EIP or not doesn't even matter in this case... his issues seem so far removed from being on the shoulders of EIP at this point.

Hey Sonic just read the thread from the first page and look at the pictures. VR6-Specialist is EIP in Holland! That is what there logo say. Rich the car will be coming home very soon straight to Maryland. I live in Baltimore so the trip will be very short. I have sent you several e-mails detailing the damages to the motor and also I have asked for your advice on the subject. At this point it would be cheaper for me just the ship the car directly to you. The problem is that I have no programming that last more than a week! Too many leaks and unskilled tuners damaging parts that have nothing to do with the motor at all. 
I understand that you are on the defense. *Just remember you will have your chance with the project.* You wrote that you could put TEC 3 on the motor and have it at 500WHP.
I don't have any bad feelings with EIP in my home town Maryland. I think that it is only fair once the car is in country to bring it by you shop. I'm not sure how many heavily modified 2.9L 24V that there are out there! My project is not complete and I want it done.


----------



## sonicGLI (Sep 23, 2002)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Wait a minute... is VR6-Specialist actually a division of EIP or are they just an authorized dealer? Because there is a BIG difference. If they are actually a division of EIP and they have screwed the car up this big, then EIP is most certainly responsible for the damages I would think.


----------



## proshot (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: (sonicGLI)*

EIP just sold DONWON the Stage 2 kit. As far as I know, EIP and VR6-Specialists have nothing to do with each other http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Jesus...this thread just won't die....
DONWON, you really should get out of the car scene.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_Jesus...this thread just won't die....
DONWON, you really should get out of the car scene. 

Flite I'm huge into the car scene. Actually very involved in it. My car makes major car shows here in German and I'm currently involved in several big projects. Notice I have not had any problems with the car scene just tuning my motor. The pictures are here on the forum. One tuner destroyed my car and the motor!! Damages to the body and also to the motor. Poor craftsmanship! Why are you tell my I should get out? I paid for performance and I've gotten BS. 
Again my car is not a everyday driver. It's purpose was to be modified. Don't tell me what I have to give up due to this problem. If you understand what is going on then you should focus on what is really happening.


_Quote, originally posted by *sonicGLI* »_Wait a minute... is VR6-Specialist actually a division of EIP or are they just an authorized dealer? Because there is a BIG difference. If they are actually a division of EIP and they have screwed the car up this big, then EIP is most certainly responsible for the damages I would think.

* Sonic you hit the nail on the head!!* I feel that this is the case. The problem is that nobody is taking responsibility. I hate being the one who is having to take the this BS and smile. EIP referred me to them! I took there advice. My first choice was the Rothe kit but I had given them the chance being that it is a shop from my home town.
http://www.fahrzeugtechnik-lol....html
Take a look at the pictures on the link. This is a independent tuning company who did the investigation for me. I had to hire a engineer to assess the motor damages days after I took delivery of the vehicle. VR6-Specialist said that the pistons clearances were incorrect and hitting the vales on the first row of cylinders. Again I paid for this and the same problems persist. Where do the checks and balances start? He buys the parts from EIP and installed them! So the natural thing for them to say is that I caused the damages. The car sits in a garage and attends car shows only! I never had time to damage the motor so they say that this is caused on my one way trip home.
Let me remind you this is a high performance motor it should last over a week!! Can you understand that?


----------



## proshot (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_* Sonic you hit the nail on the head!!*

No man, what he was saying is that EIP and VR6-Specialists were part of the same company. EIP referring you to someone doesn't make them part of the same company







.
Looks to me like you're trying to blame EIP when all they did was sell you the kit. They didn't touch your car or anything, yet you don't hesitate a minute to blame them? Nicely done







.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (proshot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *proshot* »_
No man, what he was saying is that EIP and VR6-Specialists were part of the same company. EIP referring you to someone doesn't make them part of the same company







.
Looks to me like you're trying to blame EIP when all they did was sell you the kit. They didn't touch your car or anything, yet you don't hesitate a minute to blame them? Nicely done







.

This is EIP's dealer in Holland!! I did not blame the install on EIP. Understand that Holland said that parts were wrong and the causes for brand new pistons to be poorly machined is unacceptable.
http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/dealers.html
Look at the bottom of there page and what will you see? If the wrong parts or defective parts were installed then who developed the parts? Ask yourself that before you respond.
I paid for a stage 2 that never worked it was developed by EIP and installed by VR6-Specialist and yes, I do consider them business partners. If the install was bad they pointed the blame to EIP and now that I throw up a post you point the blame at me? Did that make since? I bet you have a 2.8 liter @ 500WHP! I had nothing to do with the parts or the install but, it was messed up! Should I blame myself?
I placed blame where blame is due. Reread the post, click on the links, and form a conclusion. I think that you are posting and just don't have a clue of what type problems that I'm talking about.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (proshot)*

Proshot,
When you invest over 30,000 EURO into your ride get back with me. I really don't think you are close to understanding my machine. It is a great car to build on and the market for VW is expanding very fast. You look like your just getting started and it is not a cheap easy road to travel down once you experience problems.
I want a balanced machine everything else has been modified and functioning correctly. The motor is the last area and so far I have over 12,500 EURO invested in it for the problems that I'm having.


----------



## proshot (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Why do you say it looks like I'm just getting started? I've had my car almost 2 years. Who cares how much money you've spent on it? All that money, yet your car still isn't as reliable as mine







.
And VR6-Specialists being a dealer for EIP still doesn't make them part of the same company...


_Modified by proshot at 5:41 PM 6-2-2006_


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (DONWON)*

You're into the show scene....show cars don't need to have 500hp.

As far as I'm concerned, you're the one who's "just getting started". Up to this point, all you seem to know about cars is that if you write big checks, you can make them cool. To me, that's "just getting started".
When you build your own car, then you can rag on other people for "just getting started".
Final thought, VR6 specialist *IS NOT* EIP. They are an authorized distributer.


----------



## sonicGLI (Sep 23, 2002)

*Re: (DONWON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DONWON* »_This is EIP's dealer in Holland!! I did not blame the install on EIP. Understand that Holland said that parts were wrong and the causes for brand new pistons to be poorly machined is unacceptable.
http://www.eiptuning.com/eip/dealers.html
Look at the bottom of there page and what will you see? If the wrong parts or defective parts were installed then who developed the parts? Ask yourself that before you respond.
I paid for a stage 2 that never worked it was developed by EIP and installed by VR6-Specialist and yes, I do consider them business partners. If the install was bad they pointed the blame to EIP and now that I throw up a post you point the blame at me? Did that make since? I bet you have a 2.8 liter @ 500WHP! I had nothing to do with the parts or the install but, it was messed up! Should I blame myself?
I placed blame where blame is due. Reread the post, click on the links, and form a conclusion. I think that you are posting and just don't have a clue of what type problems that I'm talking about. 

Eh... so you have confirmed my suspicions. They are NOT a division of EIP, they're a dealer for god's sake!
I don't understand your logic for placing blame on EIP, I'm sorry. It'd be like placing blame on Mobile One Oil if you went to Quickie Lube and they put the wrong oil in your car and your engine exploded. Mobile one supplied the oil, but they weren't the nimrods who "installed" it incorrectly. On top of that, you've listed so many issues with VR6 Specialist since the beginning of this thread (everything from bad clutches, to damaged body panels) that it makes NO SENSE that you blame EIP for any of this.
You credibility is pretty much shot also. Early on you tried saying that you didn't drive the car hard, yet in previous posts you said:

_Quote »_My car is the heaviest thing around and I was taking on M3's. I can say that the brakes and the suspension was a very big help on the track. Yes, I do have Dragon Ball playing in the car on the race track.
The car really does do good at the track.

And then a couple pages later:

_Quote »_I never pushed the car hard because the car never made it to the track or anyother event.









You then had a bunch of more issues and VR6 Specialist told EIP that the issues were caused because you demanded to have the car for a car show and that when he got it back it had been run at high boost.
You story has been full of holes since day one. To even think that you have any sort of case against EIP at this point is just crazy.
My recommendation? Cut your losses and run. Better yet, instead of paying other people to create a "show car" for you, learn some of this stuff yourself and earn the right to even be in a car show.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Flite what is the goal of your car? If it is not for show or racing then what is it? I know that you don't need 500WHP just to drive around Hawaii.
Since I don't use my car as a everyday driver I have the options to use it as I please whether it is for show or racing. I do expect for everything to work perfectly. 
You could pull several quotes to form a conclusion on only brief information. The car is on a schedule. I have deadlines to be meet and goals to be achieved. If you need to understand that simple principle in life for anything that you do. Once you set the standards you need maintain them.
if you advertise 10-12 hours install I expect that not to be months for the projects completion. The blame is on the fact that the parts were found to be faulty. I don't care if EIP and Holland tell anybody what they feel is not there fault. I paid for the work and it is not completed. *I bet most of you don't understand that concept!* This is the bases of the current problem. The install and damages to my car were done in Holland. That doesn't make it OK for faulty or damage pistons hitting the valves.
Did I do the install or develop the parts? Again, the responsibility is between VR6-Specialist and EIP. 
I would love to see more of the 2.8L 24v Turbo cars on the Vortex. The most people who post don't have that combination. What can you suggest? 
Flite when you pay for something and the kit is not what you paid for what do you do? It doesn't matter if I build the car or not. If this was a house and it fell down or never was built on it's prescribed time I will have the same concern. You can adjust the numbers the way that you want but, the bottom line if the house is not ready what will you do live on the street? 
Take time to read and just don't assume that someway there is no connection because I can quote your post and do the same. I don't have the time to install the turbo. I really don't find it interesting at all other than to add to the dynamics of my car. 
I understand that some of you do this in your own time in you garage and find it very pleasurable to do. Sorry, I don't have that same passion. Just don't hate me for sharing my problems here.


----------



## DONWON (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: (sonicGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sonicGLI* »_
Eh... so you have confirmed my suspicions. They are NOT a division of EIP, they're a dealer for god's sake!
I don't understand your logic for placing blame on EIP, I'm sorry. It'd be like placing blame on Mobile One Oil if you went to Quickie Lube and they put the wrong oil in your car and your engine exploded. Mobile one supplied the oil, but they weren't the nimrods who "installed" it incorrectly. On top of that, you've listed so many issues with VR6 Specialist since the beginning of this thread (everything from bad clutches, to damaged body panels) that it makes NO SENSE that you blame EIP for any of this.
You credibility is pretty much shot also. Early on you tried saying that you didn't drive the car hard, yet in previous posts you said:
And then a couple pages later:








You then had a bunch of more issues and VR6 Specialist told EIP that the issues were caused because you demanded to have the car for a car show and that when he got it back it had been run at high boost.
You story has been full of holes since day one. To even think that you have any sort of case against EIP at this point is just crazy.
My recommendation? Cut your losses and run. Better yet, instead of paying other people to create a "show car" for you, learn some of this stuff yourself and earn the right to even be in a car show.

The post that you creatively chop are talking about before I had the turbo installed. Reread the thread. When I upgraded the braking system and added the very nice FK silverline plus X suspension, Shine racing bar H&R sways front and back, bushing kit, dog bone trans mount, and the crossmember bar.
The next thread is after the stereo install was complete and the turbo problems started 2 totally subjects!! My car was never on the track with the turbo!!
That was a very good try but, don't get it twisted again.
All of the pictures are up all over the German threads!! I'm not lossing any credibility at all. The work and damages are int he photos. I really don't have to say a word. Think about I paid for it and this is the best outcome a destroyed car!! Everything is not just talked about on the VWvortex. 
Where is your credibility? 
What have you done? *Post Chopping!* *The infamous Blogger!*


----------



## sonicGLI (Sep 23, 2002)

*Re: (DONWON)*

Well I'm sorry that I can't make heads or tails of 99% of your posts because they simply don't make sense. And nobody is saying that you don't have a right to be upset for a tuning job gone wrong, it's just that I can't see how it would be EIP's fault. If anything, I'd be going after VR6 Tuning if I were you.
I'm not sure where my credibility comes into play here? I'm not the one trying to pay someone else to create a show car for me. I'm also not the one bitching about a botched tuning job on a web forum








If you don't want questions and replies from other people... then why in the HELL did you post all of this on a user forum


----------



## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (sonicGLI)*

BUMP








wheres DONWON been anyways










_Modified by .SLEEPYDUB. at 1:15 AM 9-6-2008_


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

Why you bringin this back from the dead? I guess I can understand, I know I still wish that DONWON and rickypr are still around these days huh?


----------



## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

yea, i wonder about them sometimes, someone mentioned DONWON to me the other day, so i decided id bump a 3 year old thread lol


----------



## boraturbo01 (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

i read a bit of this thread for ha ha's and its crazy to think a little over 2-3 years ago people were saying you need SEM to make 500whp now 1.8t are making 600whp on the ME7 ecu and im sure vr6 are doing the same and more


----------



## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (boraturbo01)*

it all just goes to show that anything is possible


----------



## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

and haters will always be doubting absolutely everything even if its so obvious its possible. till the end of time.
I http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif haters.


----------



## Mr. Rictus (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Stage 3 Turbo EIP (DONWON)*

No need to bump an ancient thread.


----------

