# 2004 Phaeton - Failure of one Suspension Strut (replacement of all required)



## ceeandchance (Sep 12, 2009)

My 2004 W12 phaeton w/ 46,000miles was sent to the shop for suspension failure. I was just quoted $6400.00 to repair the mass air flow sensor, struts, steering link, control arms, belt and cv boot. I'm bummed, my warranty expired in January and at that time I could not financially commit to the purchase of the warranty.
The cost of repairs is just a little more than what an extended warranty would of cost me, however I can not continue the would of, could of, should of story.
I'm going to think about this for a few days, I'm not sure what to do, perplexed!!!!!!!









_Note added by Michael: For a quick answer to the problem of one air suspension strut failing on a MY 2004 car, and Volkswagen's policy of paying the parts and labour charges associated with replacing the other three struts, see this link: Different part specification for replacement Air Springs (Shock Absorbers). Look at the post made by Mike H (mhoepfin) on 11-29-2008, and read down from there.
The short answer is that if one strut on a MY 2004 Phaeton fails, the other three - and the suspension controller - need to be replaced. VW no longer stocks replacement struts for MY 2004 cars, what they do instead is pay the parts and labour cost to replace "the other three" when one fails. The owner is responsible for the parts and labour cost associated with the failed strut.
If you have any questions or encounter any difficulties explaining this to your VW dealer, just phone Phaeton Customer Care at +1 (877) 742 3866._

_Modified by PanEuropean at 8:11 PM 10-31-2009_


_Modified by ceeandchance at 4:03 AM 11-11-2009_


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## sachverhalte (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

I'm very sorry to hear about your unlucky circumstances. 
Owning a Phaeton is quite like owning a boat. It may not drive like one, however the purchase price to maintenance cost ratio is about the same.


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## ceeandchance (Sep 12, 2009)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (sachverhalte)*

No kidding, due to this economy, I had to sell my 30 ft. maxum last year. The only boat I have left is the Phaeton, I'll figure something out. Meanwhile, the old reliable 2001 deville will get me to work!!!!


_Modified by ceeandchance at 9:05 PM 9-21-2009_


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## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

Gosh, only 46k miles and all that stuff needs fixing? I would consider getting a second opinion, anyone with a VAG-COM in your area? My 04 W12 has 113k miles on it and I get an occasional check engine light for an O2 sensor that is intermittently bad, the usual TPMS issue, and an occasional "check gas cap" light...but other than this the car is solid as a rock.


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

It seems a bit odd that the car went in for "suspension failure" and you need a mass airflow sensor, i.e., an intake/fuel injection component. Was it running fine when you brought it in, check engine light on, etc.? One thought would be to ask them how much just to fix the original suspension issue. There are many threads about how VW will provide some support for strut replacement, even after the '04s are out of warranty. You would still be looking at about $2-2500, but that beats $6400!
Roger


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## ceeandchance (Sep 12, 2009)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (Stinky999)*

Ok, here's a list of my repairs:
Front Strut $2172.72, needed for the car to run
Control Arm/Link $2366.31, needed, however, it can wait
Air Meter $624.28, needed for the car to run
Serpentine Belt $402.13, needed but can wait
CV Boots $798.64, needed but can wait
Belly Pan $86.24, needed
VW says if I purchase the front strut, Phaeton will, indeed cover the 3 additional struts, the repair shop says in order to get the car running I need the "Struts" and the "Air Meter." I can drive the car w/o the "Control Arm/Link," but I'll eventually have to get it done and pay another alignment fee of $200.00 so they suggest getting it done now. Also, the Serpentine Belt and the CV Boots do not need immediate repair, but will eventually need to get done. He estimates that I could drive the car w/o the additional repairs for approximately 500 to 1,000 miles.
After reading through these forums, I did find that VW will negotiate the price, thanks to all of you, they did offer a 10% discount after asking.


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

They are expensive cars to fix and maintain, and here is more proof. FWIW, if the serpentine belt listed is the accessory belt, this is probably something you could do yourself if you were so inclined. My dealer also suggested I replace this, based on 5 yrs/50K, for $250. I inspected the belt myself and saw no signs of craking or extraordinary wear, so I decided to hold off. You can pick up a Gates belt for around $25. The process is not that difficult, if you are at least somewhat familiar with working on cars. Just a thought.


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## testarossaguy (Aug 13, 2007)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (Stinky999)*

Guys....I may be way off base here....but I have worked on a lot of cars, everything from domestics to foreign cars, even an occasional exotic like a Ferrari. Those prices seem sorta high....actually very high! The Strut and the Air Meter I can understand. And the price for the underbody panel is actually decent, but the rest are not in line with what your getting. I mean $400 for an accessorie belt? I work on cars as a hobby....maybe I should reconsider doing it for a living....based on those prices.
If I am nuts...please tell me.....


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (testarossaguy)*

the suspension struts are about 1600$ each. The control arms (depending on what one) are anywhere from 250-400.00. The serp belt is 132.00. CV boot kit is 86.00. MAF sensor is 160.00. Looks like they are charging you the "phaeton owners" labor rate what 250.00hr? lol The struts take about 1-2hrs to replace and the conrtol arm (if its the upper) can be replaced at the same time as you NEED to remove the strut assembly to replace the control arm. The cv boot, well the axle must be removed and in order to do that you need to remove the strut assembly. Looks like they are double or triple charging you even though there is major overlap times.
ex- strut pays 2.5hrs to replace
control arm pays 2.7hrs to replace
axle pays 3.0hrs to replace
they charge you 8.2hrs labor instead of 3hrs for the axle and an additional maybe .5 for the axle and control arm (assuming its all on the same side of the car)


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

Hi Cecilia:
I'm sorry you didn't post your message a few days earlier - I was in Las Vegas on Friday, I would have come around to see the car. I also have a 2004 with a W12.
The prices do sound quite high, as others have commented, and I am a bit perplexed about the air flow sensor being listed as a 'must do' item. If the Check Engine Light (Malfunction Indication Light) was not on at the time you took the car in, then there is no urgent problem with the mass airflow sensor.
I have 48,000 miles on my 2004 W12, and have the original serpentine belt. It's probably a "good idea" to replace that belt when it is convenient to do so, and it is a complex job to replace it on a W12 engine, but it is likely not an 'urgent' matter.
I can believe that the front control arm struts have worn out. I had mine replaced about a year ago, at 45,000 miles. 
You might want to check the post in our Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) entitled North American Phaeton Service Departments (technicians) that we (Phaeton owners) recommend and see if there is a dealer near you that is recommended by another owner.
Michael


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## Aren Jay (Jun 9, 2009)

Could you buy the parts and have them install the needed ones then have someone else install the needed soon ones? I have a private Mechanic who charges me only for the work they do, ie if it takes 0.3 hours, they charge me 0.3 hours. 


_Modified by Aren Jay at 10:27 AM 10-7-2009_


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

There is a small BMW club in Las Vegas and I would suggest you getting in touch with the members to find out if they know any good mechanics that may just install the parts that you buy elsewhere. I suggest this because BMW owners are as finicky about who touches their cars as Phaeton ones.
Although I have not tried any shops in LV, you could try:
Wolf Auto Repair -300 N Pecos Rd Ste 10 -(702) 651-9360 - Does Audis
Las Vegas European Auto Repair - 702.255.4090 - will install parts only and the man that answers the telephone has a German accent - this is somewhat reassuring. They offer workmanship warranty - not on the parts. 
Armed with some of the comments in this thread, you could point out that some work can be done concurrently. If the suspension part is the one that is talked about on this thread where VW says buy one and get three free, this work may have to be done by a dealer.
Good luck
cai


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## Lightmatrix (Apr 17, 2009)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

Hey,
I'm in Henderson myself. I have a co-worker who has an independant shop and works on Lamborghini's, Ferrari's, Porsches etc... He worked on my car (A/C failure) dealership quoted me $2500 for repair, he fixed that, and a bunch of other items on my car for $2000. He's very professional, clean, and will communicate with you regularly. 
His name is (yes this is really his name) Lucky Lopez, he is fully insured, ASC certified, etc... here is his contact:
Las Vegas Motor Works
702-403-0685

-Ari


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## ceeandchance (Sep 12, 2009)

I have good news! I gave the okay to the dealership to fix the struts and the air meter. Once they disassembled the car, they realized the control arms could be fixed by replacing the bushings. The price to fix the control arms has come down from $2366.31 to $624.00. The parts came in on Friday, hopefully I'll have the car back by the end of the week.. My first priority...................BUYING THE EXTENDED WARRANTY!!!!!!!


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

*Re: (ceeandchance)*

Glad to hear that you were able to save a few dollars based on your last post. 
Do you mind me asking which dealer gave you the quote? While I don't own a Phaeton, I've been involved in the Volkswagen scene as a owner/enthusiast for many years. I've used both Findlay Volkswagen and Desert Volkswagen over the past 10 years to service my 1999 Beetle, 2000 Eurovan, and 2004 Passat. I've never really had any problems with either, but I've always felt more comfortable with Findlay VW myself. 
I keep wanting to buy a Phaeton which can be acquired very affordably now; but then I read these maintenance cost horror stories and cringe.








Maybe I should just plunk my money down on a new CC instead.











_Modified by papa_vw at 8:30 AM 10-27-2009_


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## JiggyJoe (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: (papa_vw)*

Yes... I hear ya, papa. However, I'm hopeful there are many positive, trouble-free owner stories that just aren't being told simply because most owners wouldn't come here unless they needed something.








Similar to you I have been a long-time VW enthusiast, and recently acquired an '04 W12 Phaeton. The past couple weeks have been more of a learning experience than anything, but they've been great. There is no denying that the overall cost of ownership is a main reason why the pre-owned sticker prices are becoming more affordable. If you find one you like the best 2 things you can do is research the service history prior to making a decision and then purchase a warranty that covers at least the major functional components of the car. I expect things to go wrong here and there, however I do have a little piece of mind knowing there are 2 warranties covering most major repairs, if needed. Its also helpful having another good, practical vehicle to use for daily driving in the event its needed.
The CC was on my short list and would have happened by early next year if I didn't run across this particular Phaeton. You can't go wrong with the CC...


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## ceeandchance (Sep 12, 2009)

*Re: (papa_vw)*

My car is at the Findlay dealership, but like yourself, I have used both Desert and Findlay over the years. 
I did share my horror story with Desert, the service guy there was great, he would only be able to save me a couple of hundred dollars off my original estimate and suggested I get my car fixed with Findlay. It wouldn't make financial sense to have the car towed, especially since the car was already approved from Phaeton for the additional struts.
Desert did work with their Finance Department to save me a few hundred dollars off the extended warranty. Findlay's quote for the extended warranty was $5,492, Desert offered me two options, $4900 if I pay it in full or $5200 financed. 
The CC is a beautiful car, however, for a gal like myself who just experienced a nightmare of car repairs, my vote is for the Phaeton. Not only is it beautiful, the power of this car is amazing. Friends are blown away when they take a ride, they usually find it hard to believe it's an 04. I also love the room inside the car and the trunk, although I rarely use it, it feels good to have it.
There's no way I would pay for these repairs if the car was not worth it. My only advice to anyone is to purchase an extended warranty, regardless of the cost!!!! 
Papa-vw, drive a Phaeton before you make a decision, a W12 if you can!!!


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*

HOLD ON!!!!!
Please check out this thread first, as you will save BIG$$$$$
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...20443


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ceeandchance* »_...VW says if I purchase the front strut, Phaeton will, indeed cover the 3 additional struts...

This is consistent with the experience of other forum members in the past.
VW has an obligation to support the vehicle (by ensuring that spare parts are available) for a certain period of time - I think it may be 10 years after production, but I am not sure of the exact time.
In the case of the Phaeton front suspension, the specification for both the four 'shock absorbers' (air suspension struts) and the controller for the suspension was changed at approximately the same time as the MY 04 - MY 05 changeover. Because there are not a lot of MY 04 Phaetons in the world (likely less than 15,000 vehicles worldwide), it is overall less expensive for VW to just subsidize the replacement of the other three corners of the car - and the controller - whenever one air suspension strut fails.
This is a very sensible and practical business decision by VW. The failure rate of air suspension struts has been remarkably low (considering the age of the fleet), and they obviously did the math and discovered that it is cheaper to 'upgrade' vehicles with a failed strut than it is to put the older version struts back into production.
VW of America (the importer of the cars) has always been very co-operative about paying for the parts substitution. In practice, though, they have not done a good job of promulgating this information out to the service departments of the dealerships. As a result, when a single air suspension strut fails, the dealership discovers that the other three (and the controller) need to be replaced to maintain commonality, but, they don't discover at the same time that VW of America will pay the cost of the additional parts needed beyond what has actually failed on the vehicle.
Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (PanEuropean)*

Michael, do you have any firm stats on the failure rate of the suspension struts? I assume you must, since you state that the failure rate has been remarkably low. I'd like to try to gauge the level of risk in the event that VW ever stop replacing the other three non-failed struts.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (invisiblewave)*

During the last 6 years that I have moderated the forum, I can recall about 4 to 6 reports of a single suspension strut failing. Only one of these was reported by an 'original owner'.
Best estimate I have of the number of Phaetons imported to North America is about 3,700 vehicles.
I think that the level of risk of a strut failure is pretty low, it appears to be roughly 1 in 1,000, based only on what has been reported here in the forum.
If it gives you any comfort - I have a 2004 W12 Phaeton (a vehicle for which the original struts are no longer available), and I have no concerns whatsoever about parts availability between now and 2016, which will be 10 years after the last new Phaeton was imported to North America.
The struts that VW supplies as replacements for the 2004 Phaetons are the same part numbers as are used on 2005 through 2009 Phaetons, and they are the same part numbers as are used on every Bentley Continental GT and Bentley Continental Flying Spur that has ever been produced. Volkswagen continues to import the two Bentley models to North America, which guarantees the availability of these parts (from stock) for at least another 10 years.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (invisiblewave)*

Martin:
The whole history of air suspension strut failures (the 4 to 6 instance that I mentioned above) seems to have been discussed on this thread, which is 6 pages long and runs from September 2007 to present: Different part specification for MY 2004 replacement Air Springs (Shock Absorbers).
Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_During the last 6 years that I have moderated the forum, I can recall about 4 to 6 reports of a single suspension strut failing. Only one of these was reported by an 'original owner'.
Best estimate I have of the number of Phaetons imported to North America is about 3,700 vehicles.
I think that the level of risk of a strut failure is pretty low, it appears to be roughly 1 in 1,000, based only on what has been reported here in the forum.
Michael

I'm not exactly sure how you calculate the 1/1000 ratio just on the anecdotal evidence. I've seen you plane other people for less! How many of the registered Vortex users have MY 2004 Phaetons?
Anyway, I decided I couldn't live with any more sleepless nights, and nor could I bring myself to sell the Phaeton, so I bought the Real Driver policy which hopefully will give me a backup in the event that VW decide not to step up to the plate at some point in the future.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_I'm not exactly sure how you calculate the 1/1000 ratio just on the anecdotal evidence. 

I calculated it based entirely on the data I cited, nothing more and nothing less.

_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_How many of the registered Vortex users have MY 2004 Phaetons?

I don't know how many of the Vortex users have 2004 cars, but if we assume that the distribution ratio of Phaetons amongst the Vortex users is the same as the distribution ratio of Phaetons imported to North America, then the unfactored numbers would likely be 15:2:1 for the 04, 05 and 06 model years respectively. If we factor in a higher fleet retirement rate for the older vehicles, then a more realistic ratio might be 12:2:1. These figures are based on my recollection of the number of vehicles imported to North America - if anyone would like to carry out a more scholarly study, there are detailed listings of the number of cars imported on a "Phaeton Sales" thread elsewhere on the forum.
Michael


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## ceeandchance (Sep 12, 2009)

*Phaeton w/o warranty*

For those of you who would like to know, here's a list of the invoice items for the repairs:
Tech Comment: Replace lower control arm, left side and replace bushing in control arm links, replace left air shock
Opcode: 999 (I assume labor), $748.02
VW Parts, Description, Qty, Cost
3D0-616-039-AA, Damper, 1, $1500.00
8D0-407-515-C, Rubb Moun, 4, $100.00
4E0-407-182-C, Rubb Moun, 1, $27.00
Tech Comment: Replace M.A.F. Sensor
Opcode: 999, $187.01
07C-906-461-X, Air Meter, 1, $172.00
Tech Comment: Replace Rt front and both rear struts as per VW, Inc
Opcode:999
Struts, Warranty
Tech Comment: Replace 3 Strust and Control module, VOA ok for repairs, customer paid for one strut and install on #158155
3D0-616-040-AA, Damper, 1, warranty
3D0-616-001-M, Damper, 1, warranty
3D0-616-002-M, Damper, 1 warranty
3D0-907-553-C, Control, 1, warranty
Tech Comment: Perform 4 wheel alignment
Alignment, $249.00
Tech Comment: Replace Water Pump 
07D-121-008-A, Water pump, 1, Warranty (was replaced in Jan. 09, 40,255 miles)
G-012-A8F-A4, Coolant
Tech Comment: Replace Belly Pan
3D0-825-235-H, Baffle, 1, $200.00, Bolts and nuts, $20.56
Labor $1,184.03
Parts $2,019.56
Misc. Materials $28.56
Tax $165.90
Total $3,398.05 
I still need to replace the serpentine belt and the cv boots. VW shared more good news, my front rim is cracked!!!! Any suggestions for the rim, anyone?
It is nice to have my car back, I've had it for a week, and have only driven it a few times. I must be going through post-repair syndrome because I'm more comfortable driving my other car!!!!!! I'll get over it with time.
http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: 2004 Phaeton repair w/o warranty! (ceeandchance)*

Just for the record: at 80K my right front "suspension component" has failed. 
Phaeton Customer Care very quickly responded and will cover the other three corners as well as the controller. 
After fours days of waiting for VW Real Driver to send out an "adjustor" who never showed and a call to his supervisor, they approved coverage for the replacement of the failed component. The parts alone list for over $7,000. My cost will be the $100 deductible on the policy--I have the Platinum version.
If you don't have extended warrantyon your Phaeton, I strongly suggest you invest!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Phaeton w/o warranty (ceeandchance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ceeandchance* »_my front rim is cracked... Any suggestions for the rim, anyone?

They used to show up fairly frequently on eBay - maybe have a look there, or perhaps at a salvage yard. Most salvage yards nowadays are connected to inventory networks, so, if a local yard does not have the part, they might be able to source one from another yard.
Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Air springs are being remanufactured in Poland*

Let me start with a short background story. Here in Europe, even though many of us are citizens of the same European Union, we still have the national countries which vast differences between them. This is pretty striking especially in the central Europe, at the border of Germany and Poland.

Germans are the people who brought us the Phaeton. Visit Germany and you will see quite a lot of Phaetons on the road. New, shiny ones, mostly. The kind of cars that are serviced only by the authorized VW dealers, in their spotless garages. Diagnostics are read from VAS and any components throwing any fault codes are promply replaced. This is how a Phaeton is treated up to maybe five years old. 

By that time the car's too old to be serviced by - and also to be sold by - the authorized dealer. The older Phaetons are passed on to the "backyard salesmen". These cars quite often sell with a sticker "netto - export". Many of them are really exported to the eastern part of Europe and elsewhere. 

And then there is a similar life cycle for damaged vehicles, taking them outside of the German borders. It does not take much damage to a 5-year old Phaeton for the insurance company to deem it "irreparable" - yes they are calculating with local labour costs and assuming use of new original parts.

There is obviously business in putting back together damaged "prestige cars". And also a great demand for cost-effective spare parts. In my experience it is Poland that is a major player in this market.

Occasionally it so happens, that a wrecked car is totalled and the ruins are exported to a eastern European country. While in there, the car is put back together by a shady tree mechanic - using whatever parts were handy - and then sold back to Germany or other "western" market. Quality of the repairs waries a lot. But this is a whole different story.

But - yes I am finally getting to my initial subject - it is amazing what kind of salvaged and remanufactured parts business there is blooming in eastern Europe, especially in Poland!

I have been lurking on ebay.de for a long time buying new and used parts for my German cars. It used to be better: there were occasionally very special parts for sale. Someone working at a car assembly line or for a subcontractor had gotten his hands on something special which he then sold on eBay... This is pretty much history. 

I feel that ebay.de has gotten pretty bad what comes to selection of car parts. If you look at what they have for Phaeton, out of the about 5000 articles, perhaps 4500 are stupid looking aftermarket rims, poorly fitting aftermarket mats and Chinese daylight running lights. Perhaps 10% of all the articles for Phaeton are actual OEM car parts. And out of those, parts like wiper blades and air filters represent a huge part. Speaking of air springs (which I was going to talk about today), there is just ONE sorry spring for sale. Now that is pathetic! 

Looking at Poland, things are very different! They have a "cheapo copy" local eBay, called allegro.pl where you get about 1500 matches for Phaeton. Not that much. But the parts for sale are pretty amazing! Polish are the guys who buy a whole wrecked car, cut it into pieces in their back yard and sell the parts to whoever needs them. A search for Phaeton air springs gets you about 50 (fifty) hits. Prices? Units in working condition often go for less than 200 euros (300 dollars) each.

There are other pretty amazing deals to make, too. I just sourced complete facelift headlights (adaptive, DRL-LED's and all control units and bulbs in place, condition as new) for 500 euros a pair. The cheapest for sale, though not complete with all control units, would have been 100 euros a piece. Also got a rear climate control panel fitting the 5-seater for 50 euros... This is a heaven for Phaeton parts. The only caveat is that all adverts are in Polish and the sellers rarely speak english (of course there are exceptions). 

What got me to write this post and reveal the well-kept secret of the Polish parts market is what I ran across yesterday: it's an advert from a Polish company. They remanufacture air springs for most of all European cars. And yes, they have remanufactured springs for Phaeton! They cover both the older and the newer type. Price? 375 euros each. Though it seems that only front springs are available. See http://www.regeneracja-airmatic.pl/ for info. I have not spoken with them, don't know if they speak english.

Sorry for the rant and hope this information is of use to someone. I was a bit worried that it might get expensive with my air springs one day (my Phaeton is manufactured in 10/2004 and it still uses the older spring type which is no longer available new). But I guess I can afford the 200 euros for a used spring or 375 euros for a remanufactured one some day...

Jouko


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## W12mike (Apr 13, 2005)

Great info:thumbup:


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## mikes phaeton1 (Jan 3, 2010)

*Dont take it back to VW!*

_
Ok, here's a list of my repairs:
Front Strut $2172.72, needed for the car to run
Control Arm/Link $2366.31, needed, however, it can wait
Air Meter $624.28, needed for the car to run
Serpentine Belt $402.13, needed but can wait
CV Boots $798.64, needed but can wait
Belly Pan $86.24, needed_

My thoughts on this post.

I have an 04 V8 with 122K on the odometer. VW told me that the control arms were shot and needed to be replaced before they could allign. $2500! I bought the control arms for $35 a piece from a local European parts shop here in Atl. I then took them to my local tire shop. I had all 4 upper arms replaced, car re-alligned, and a serpentine belt done for $300. So all in labor and parts including the belt $470. This was a $2000 savings over VW. Some may say that the control arms are not quality. They look identical and have not failed me yet. At that price, I can do this 4 times and break even. Same situation on the front brake job. $1500 at VW. I bought the disc' and pads and took them to the tire shop. Front brakes were $300 in parts, $90 labor installed. 

I cannot speak for the strut issue and hopefully I will not have to. You can own a Phaeton without breaking the bank, there are other options besides the stealership!


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## ceeandchance (Sep 12, 2009)

*AGAIN, 3 years later!!!!*

I will follow up with ALL details later, but can you believe the control arms went out again in November of 2012. The funny part is my car had been in and out of the dealership since August, cd changer replaced, axle and the dealership never noticed there was anything wrong. I felt like an idiot complaining how the car did not feel right. I took the car to a tire shop in the neighborhood and they told me that two of my 1-year old tires were practically bald and the control arm's had to be replaced along with all 4 tires. 

I still can not believe that the dealership never apologized for their lack of professionalism. I will be posting all of my repairs since 2009 with details, there have been quite a bit. The two recent repairs I had done last month were for the back screen and the sun roof, they both needed new motors. :what:

I am grateful that I purchased the platinum extended warranty, unfortunately, I only have the choice to purchase a gold or silver plan before I hit 89,990 and I'm getting close. My platinum is good until 96,000 miles but it's my understanding you can not buy a warranty after 89,990.


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Right front bag blown out*

I was just informed by my dealer that my right front air bag has blown due to dry rot. He is saying that I have to replace all 4 since the module is set up to read the four units together. However, I found a company that remanufactures these units and sells them for 375.00 or so. They tell me that they sell single units all the time. 

So do I have to replace all 4 or just the one unit?

Oh, btw, the dealer wants 15k to do the work. 

Ernie O.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't believe that question is yet fully settled. I was able to replace a single strut on my 2004 car, and I believe Ahmad did the same, using a new AD suffix strut. When the dealer scanned my old controller with their system, it produced a page indicating that it was running new software and therefore the new struts would work. This is an original, 2004 controller. How it got into that state, I have no idea, the dealer is adamant that all 4 struts and the controller must have been replaced previously, but I know that's wrong because of the part numbers on both the controller and the struts (not to mention that I have a full history for the car, and there's no record of it in the system at the dealer either).

So, assuming your dealer has scanned your controller and determined that it can't run the new struts, you can do what Ahmad did and gamble that a single strut will work, or call the PCC line and ask them to stump up for the other 3 struts and the controller (which so far they have done in every case that has required it, afaik).

Somewhere I have the sheet that the dealer printed for me showing that my controller works with both the old and new struts, but I can't seem to lay my hands on it at the moment. Ask your dealer to show you the screen from their system that says it won't work.

This thread has more info: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...t-numbers-TOC-done/page2&highlight=suspension


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> I don't believe that question is yet fully settled. I was able to replace a single strut on my 2004 car, and I believe Ahmad did the same, using a new AD suffix strut. When the dealer scanned my old controller with their system, it produced a page indicating that it was running new software and therefore the new struts would work. This is an original, 2004 controller. How it got into that state, I have no idea, the dealer is adamant that all 4 struts and the controller must have been replaced previously, but I know that's wrong because of the part numbers on both the controller and the struts (not to mention that I have a full history for the car, and there's no record of it in the system at the dealer either).
> 
> So, assuming your dealer has scanned your controller and determined that it can't run the new struts, you can do what Ahmad did and gamble that a single strut will work, or call the PCC line and ask them to stump up for the other 3 struts and the controller (which so far they have done in every case that has required it, afaik).
> 
> ...



Is there a number for PCC and what do I tell them to help cover this cost? I mean, my car has 150k miles on it. Would that matter?

Ernie O.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The number's in the FAQ, I don't have it. So far they've covered everybody, regardless of mileage.


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Damaged air strut.*

So here's the skinny on replacing the 3 struts. VW will replace the 3 struts along with labour if you purchase and pay for the the strut and labour of the 1 damaged strut. There is no issue of age of the car or mileage. And the program does not have a expiration date. Just call PCC if your dealer is not aware of the program and they will make the arrangements for you. 

Wow, now that's good service.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Score! That's the ideal outcome. I was a bit disappointed that my controller supported the new struts, and when I called the customer care line they claimed, on several occasions, to have absolutely no knowledge of having to replace the other three struts.....


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Worked out the details*

So the total bill to replace all 4 corners along with the module comes to $13,626.00 large. Wow that is ridiculous! 
PCC will cover 75% of the job as long as I have the work done at VW dealership. The dealer said that I would be responsible for approx. $3,700. I told them that since I was bringing them over 10k in business that they should handle my portion at a deep discount. After some negotiating, they agreed that my portion would be 1k. Not bad for 4 new airbags! 

To date I have about 20k in retail repairs. PTL for insurance and PCC. 

Ernie O.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, they definitely over-quoted for that job. I think one corner on mine was around $2200 (covered under warranty). At $1k, you made out like a bandit!


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hello,
Do you have the information about VWOA paying for the other 3 struts while one failed? I am not sure if my right front strut failed. does VWOA still cover that? I do not have any extended warranty and my car has 81000miles on it.

Thanks!

Johnny


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## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Phaeton Customer Care Number*

The number for Phaeton CC is 877-742-3866. I didn't have a warrantee either and they covered it completely, well 75% of it. Most likely your local dealer will not know about the coverage so you will have to get them on board. They will get a call from PCC if you decide to go thru with the repair. I was able to negotiate a $1000 cost for me since I was bringing them all that work. You might be able to do the same, good luck.

I have since sold my Phaeton, just could not risk the potential repair cost as my daily driver. Bummer, it was a great and beautiful car. 

Ernie O.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

They're still doing it: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3748292-Stop!-Car-too-low!-message-appearing
However, they've refused a couple of people in the past, it depends on how they view you as a customer. It's not a warranty thing, it's a goodwill gesture, so you're dependent on them feeling good about you. If it's a high mileage car with multiple owners and you haven't had it very long, they might well say no. On the other hand, it's cheaper to have the strut rebuilt anyway, and they replace the bladder with a newer, stronger version. Going the VW route, it'll cost you about $2500, but the refurb is $700 plus fitting. You might also get lucky (as I did) and have a controller that is capable of running both the old and new struts.


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Thank you all for help! I guess I would go to the dealers that I am familiar with.. also maybe I will consider the rebuilt ones. how do you know if your module supports both new and old struts or not?
How do I check if the suspension has a leakage? It looks like the front passenger side is about one to two centimeters lower than the front driver side. But the front driver side just seems too high. So maybe it is not a leakage?( No fault code from VAG) Maybe the suspension system needs a calibration? 

Johnny


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's probably not a calibration issue. If it's not the strut, it's likely the ride height sensor. The passenger side strut is almost always the one that fails. The dealer can do a scan which will tell you if the controller will support both struts, if you read the relevant threads you'll find a picture of the scan from my car. Personally, now I'm out of warranty, I wouldn't go near a VW dealer for this job. Find a VW/Audi specialist who will remove your strut and send it off for refurbishment (if it turns out to be the strut). Or do it yourself, it's not that difficult to get the strut off, Dennis posted a thread about it, although he wasn't very forthcoming about the procedure.


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## mouldsj (Feb 25, 2012)

*VW STILL will replace the Suspension Struts that have not failed along with the comfort control module*

Both front Air Suspension Struts on my 2004 W12 have a leak. I called Phaeton Customer Care, because of what I had read on this thread. They were very quick to confirm that VW will pay for the parts and labor to replace the non-failed Air Suspension Struts and the comfort control module and gave me a case number and will be contacting my dealership to explain to them that I am not making this up.


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## imon_2nd (Apr 29, 2015)

mouldsj said:


> Both front Air Suspension Struts on my 2004 W12 have a leak. I called Phaeton Customer Care, because of what I had read on this thread. They were very quick to confirm that VW will pay for the parts and labor to replace the non-failed Air Suspension Struts and the comfort control module and gave me a case number and will be contacting my dealership to explain to them that I am not making this up.



I was glad to read that. I doubt this is a VW goodwill program. My best guess is that VW is trying to avoid any future wrongful death lawsuits, NHTSA investigation and all the bad PR associated with this matter should it become public knowledge. As far as I know, nobody has been killed as a result of a strut failure. But, it wouldn't surprise me if that has happened and VW paid a settlement, which would normally include a gag clause.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't think that's the case. There's a legal requirement to produce replacement parts for a certain number of years afterwards (between 7 & 10, depending on who you listen to), and since they no longer make the compatible struts, this program is in lieu of that. Replacing struts after they fail isn't going to help them in a wrongful death suit.


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

we have been through this before. contrary to popular belief there is no legal requirement to provide replacement parts for an auto or any device for that matter.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Not specifically, but practically they have to because of the warranty regulations. If they were unable to provide spare parts during any warranty period (or extended warranty period), they'd be obliged to replace the whole vehicle.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

After ignoring a slow right front suspension leak for a year, I finally got tge soapy spary and aimed it first at the damper line connection and voila, bubbles came out as the pic shows



Anyone had this leak? 

Regards


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Another question came to my mind, looking at the P damper parts diagram I couldn't find any valve parts. In the Audi and Porsche there are valve parts for their dampers. Will those fit? (Porsche part number 95535872002 for example)


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'd suggest a call to Mastertech in Florida.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Googled them but it seems the name was catchy, there're few of them! Would you have a number and an address for themby any chance?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

http://www.rebuildmastertech.com/


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Much appreciated


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## jgminc (Jan 9, 2010)

*Not necessary to replace all struts in 2004*

Earlier Phaetons seem to have bad luck with the right front air strut. Rather than replacing the other struts at the same time, I ordered a rebuilt strut from a supplier on eBay, Rebuild Master Tech. It came with the same part number as my original and has worked flawlessly for two years. This is the way to go, unless you have the warranty.


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

When replacing one with the newer strut and vw pays for the other 3, does vw pay for the newer controller as well?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yes, they do, but unless you have less than 100k on the car and you've been regularly taking it to a dealer for servicing, I suspect they're unlikely to help. Worth a call, but be prepared for the FU answer I got last week on my transmission. It's not a big issue anyway, since it's easy (and cheaper) to get your strut refurbished.


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

That's good to know. I currently have 85000miles on my car and I have been going to the dealer quite oftenly!


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## s2kvondeutschland (Mar 19, 2011)

If the dealer isn't helpful, many times it is purely out of laziness. A call to the customer support line will often help. Best of luck! 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

johnnyjiang said:


> That's good to know. I currently have 85000miles on my car and I have been going to the dealer quite oftenly!


Based on the conversation I had with them last week, the age is also a factor. 100k or 10 years seems to be a tipping point for them. They also take account of how many owners the car has had (I'm only the second owner).


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

If that's the case, then I can only buy a rebuilt one.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's worth a call to them, but just be prepared for the possibility of being knocked back. Other people have also been refused. The rebuilt option will save you around $700 anyway. After my call to them last week, I've decided to stop using VW altogether for maintenance, I'll either do it myself or use an indy shop. This will also be my last VW.


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## ernil (Sep 1, 2016)

Hello, 

is it possible to unscrew that inlet "valve" from the strut? Is there any thread? I have a leak there. There is no screw/nut visible (only a round-shape "nut"). Make a smal cut to place a screwdriver? Or weld a standard nut, quickly put some water on it to cold it down and unscrew? Or it's impossible and I have to buy a pair of new shock absorbers? 

If it is "unscrewable", than is it possible to use some connectors like those on photos?

On those new parts I can see a screw/nut or thread, so I still have hope. It looks like a screw used for ignition knob mounting. It breakes, when you put a designed torque to it and it makes it hard to unscrew (f.e. anti-theft) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cAYHLWF7Gc or on the photo below. 

Thak you for your help, greatings from Poland. 

W12, ~55k miles.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's some information about this in one of the other threads. However, I THINK if you have air escaping there, it must mean that the rubber bladder underneath is leaking. If that's an original 2003 strut, you probably need to replace it. Take a read of the thread first, though, with the dismantling instructions, it may have better information about that fitting.


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