# Header for 24v???



## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

Does anyone make a header for the 24v?







...I see alot of 24v's making good numbers around hear on N/A, im looking into buying a 24v Gli and plan on keeping it N/A. Techtonics sells cams for it but no header...can anyone help


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## Veedub_junky (Aug 13, 2005)

*Re: Header for 24v??? (vwaddicct07)*

Nobody has successfully made headers for and gotten gains on the 12v motor, so nobody has tried for the 24v. With the 12v, the consensus seems to be that flow through the head is the limitation with them, which is why headers haven't helped. The 24v head flows much better than the 12v, but AFAIK nobody has attempted headers for it. I'm curious if there are gains to be had, but I don't know that anyone is going to be willing to do the R&D to find out. There just isn't a big enough market due to the limited production run for the 24v.


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Header for 24v??? (vwaddicct07)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwaddicct07* »_...I see alot of 24v's making good numbers around hear on N/A

[hater]







I disagree.
You would probably end up having to get tubular headers made... Which would be expensive... and still not yield much since it's N/A...







Maybe like 10BHP? For what... $750?
[/hater]


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## ib4tl gtfo ftw (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: Header for 24v??? (Veedub_junky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Veedub_junky* »_Nobody has successfully made headers for and gotten gains on the 12v motor, so nobody has tried for the 24v. With the 12v, the consensus seems to be that flow through the head is the limitation with them, which is why headers haven't helped.


actually thats not the reason. the exhaust runners in the head are different lengths. all aftermarket headers that are made for 12v's are equal length which would mean cylinder's 2,4,6 are getting a longer travel out of the cylinder head than cylinders 1,3,5 (or vise versa). pretty much same thing applies to a 24v except fro the fact that our head flows an insane amount better. so if someone could make a header that was UNequal length, we would stand to gain a substantial amount of power. 
on a side note, the way to get the most power from your 12v (as far as exhaust manifold mods go) is porting the OEM VW manifolds bc they are unequal length, so you just need to port them. http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: Header for 24v??? (ib4tl gtfo ftw)*

i wish someone would get a set of nice headers made...i always consider the N/A option just for fun, and to see what i can do...but the amount of money/power is what is such a large deterrent to me...
if i were to do it, i'd bring the car to Kooks Custom Headers here on long island, they're Renown all over the country for their work, and have them go at it and make a set of unequal length headers somehow..

but it'll most likely never happen










_Modified by Attack.:Rabbit at 1:29 PM 12-26-2007_


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

OBX makes headers for the 12v i think, they should try to make an unequal length for the 24v. But yeah, OEM is best for now. Someone could make an ass load of money if they came up with a good header for the 24v.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RipCity Euros* »_OBX makes headers for the 12v i think, they should try to make an unequal length for the 24v. But yeah, OEM is best for now. Someone could make an ass load of money if they came up with a good header for the 24v.

I E-mailed kooks about it, with all the details of the motor and such, seeing if they'd want to take it up for to build and market them....i specifically mentioned that there aren't any companies at all that make them yet...and kooks stuff is sick







if they did it it would be golden.
plus i'd let them use my car







so maybe discounted header


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (Attack.:Rabbit)*

port your stock manifolds! thats what all the HARDCORE 12v guys do.







seriously.


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## orange1218 (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_port your stock manifolds! 

This is probably a stupid question, but...what does it mean to "port" a manifold?


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## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (orange1218)*

Just found this i dont know how this got past anyone...
http://www.parts4vws.com/catal...87801
Its a header for the R, would that fit a 2.8???








Personally i think its an insane amount of money especially for a supersprint....


_Modified by vwaddicct07 at 6:08 PM 12-26-2007_


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (vwaddicct07)*

Bakber is making one. Im sure that he would make you one also if you slipped him some $$


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (VR6JettaGLI)*

orly? why no thread with pictars!?!?!?!?


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## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (Attack.:Rabbit)*

PowerDubs just sent me this pic of the supersprint on his R..


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## Baltimoron (Oct 10, 2001)

*Re: (vwaddicct07)*

Exhaust ports are different on the R32, same thing for the intakes so any R32 manifold will not fit the 2.8L.


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## Dubbed95 (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: (CoolWhiteWolfsburg)*

exhaust are the same. intake ports are different.


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Does the 2.8 have dual downpipes like the .:R?


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## raceware (Sep 28, 1999)

*Re: Header for 24v??? (ib4tl gtfo ftw)*

People make too much out of the different length intake and exhaust ports in the VR6 engines. 
In a perfect world for maximum PEAK torque or HP, you would build an engine with equal length intake and exhaust ports. But a funny thing happens when you build an engine with slightly different length ports - the PEAK power is not quite as high but the power band is wider. For pure racing that may not be ideal but for street application it actually delivers better driveability and overall performance unless you are running your engine at redline all the time. So while an un-equal length intake or exhaust header for the VR6 may add a few ponies at peak HP, an un-equal length system works quite well and isn't worth losing sleep over.
Bigger ain't always better and more flow ain't always better. If the stock exhaust doesn't cause a flow restriction to the volume of gas the head flows, then a low restriction header will be mainly for looks. On the otherhand the OBD II systems are very sensitive to gas velocity as the Turbo folks have discovered... a low restriction header can cause a drop in gas velocity at part-throttle operation and cause improper O2 readings triggering CELs.



_Modified by raceware at 6:39 AM 12-28-2007_


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## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: Header for 24v??? (raceware)*

very well said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , So if you really think about its not worth it unless you have a nicely worked head. But at the same time it does sound/look sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And do you think that the stock manifold good enough?


_Modified by vwaddicct07 at 8:20 PM 12-27-2007_


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## Baltimoron (Oct 10, 2001)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GRN6IX* »_Does the 2.8 have dual downpipes like the .:R?

The 2.8 has a very close layout except the R32 has twin catalysts and the cat back section attaches to the cats much farther aft than any other mk4.
The layout goes like this, two cast manifolds into 3 bolt flanges into a Y-shaped downpipe with each pipe about 1.75in dia merging into single 2.5in a couple inches before the catalyst and ending after the cat with a 6-10in (can't remember exact length, it's been a while since I built my catback) section of 2.25in pipe.


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## VR6DPLMT. (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: (CoolWhiteWolfsburg)*

So the big question I'm dying to ask is did powerdubbers dyno his R32 with the headers to see if he actually made power. If so wow that would be a first for almost any VR6 throughout the generations.


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## oscar_block (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (VR6DPLMT.)*

Yes he did dyno it here is the thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3410500


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: (CoolWhiteWolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CoolWhiteWolfsburg* »_
The 2.8 has a very close layout except the R32 has twin catalysts and the cat back section attaches to the cats much farther aft than any other mk4.
The layout goes like this, two cast manifolds into 3 bolt flanges into a Y-shaped downpipe with each pipe about 1.75in dia merging into single 2.5in a couple inches before the catalyst and ending after the cat with a 6-10in (can't remember exact length, it's been a while since I built my catback) section of 2.25in pipe.

So would headers designed/made for the 3.2 work for the 2.8? Sounds like they would...



_Modified by GRN6IX at 3:11 PM 1-4-2008_


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

?


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GRN6IX* »_
So would headers designed/made for the 3.2 work for the 2.8? Sounds like they would...

the 2.8l 24v and the 3.2 have the same exhaust ports and bolt pattern but it is unknown as to weather or not the down pipes are in the same spot.
Something good to look at would be to find out if the .:R32 and the 2.8l 24v have the same OEM exhaust manifolds. I have a spare set of manifolds and I can find out what the p/n on the .:R exhaust manifold is.
I'll let everyone know the answer to this within the next few days.
Very good question from GRN6IX http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The following is a picture of .:R32 exhaust manifolds that I found in the .:R32 classified section. I'll be posting up the 2.8l 24v manifolds later and comparing the p/n's on them.








_Edit: Added picture of the 3.2l manifolds_


_Modified by BakBer at 12:51 PM 1-5-2008_


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (BakBer)*

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the header for the .:R wont fit on our cars. If you look at the pictures in the link to follow you can tell that just the headers wont work with our stock down pipe...but the real question is can we get the headers and down pipe that supersprint offers to bolt up to our cars...??
http://www.supersprintna.com/c...d/139


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (BakBer)*

port your stock exhaust manifolds and be sure to gasket match. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*

here is the pic of the 2.8l 24v VR6 exhaust manifold








none of the numbers seem to match but they do seem to look very much the same


_Modified by BakBer at 4:33 PM 1-5-2008_


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_here is the pic of the 2.8l 24v VR6 exhaust manifold








none of the numbers seem to match but they do seem to look very much the same

_Modified by BakBer at 4:33 PM 1-5-2008_

Seems like the only difference is the downpipe(s)








The .:R has two, one for each catalyst and the 2.8 has what I guess you'd call a 'Y' pipe since it has a single catalyst.


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## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*

can you post a better pic of the DP for the 2.8 please...


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (vwaddicct07)*

These are pictures of the stock .:R32 downpipes/cat setup. They were stolen from 04dubdave R32 part out thread.


























_Modified by BakBer at 8:59 PM 1-5-2008_


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (BakBer)*

notice that the stock R32 setup is just like ours..as far as how it connects to the exhaust manifolds. the supersprint setup...not only do you have to buy their header anyone that buys the headers also has to purchase their cats or cat delete y pipe...







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
_Edit: on second thought there seem to be bolts holding the cat to the down pipes on the stock .:R32 setup so maybe I was wrong in the ^above^ statement._ 


_Modified by BakBer at 8:52 PM 1-5-2008_


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (BakBer)*

As requested these are the pictures of the 2.8l 24v oem y pipe and cat
































I see my monties.."insert childish laugh here"


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

You'd definitely need some sort of custom Y pipe to run the Supersprint .:R header on the 2.8. It looks as though it'll bolt to the head without modification however.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*

i see my downpipe in that picture haha


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GRN6IX* »_You'd definitely need some sort of custom Y pipe to run the Supersprint .:R header on the 2.8. It looks as though it'll bolt to the head without modification however.

or you can put the entire line or supersprint products on your car up tile that cat back they you would have to use a jetta or golf cat back.
or the supersprint header with stock .:R cat with your cat back
but yes the .:R exhaust manifold and the 2.8l 24v exhaust manifold have the same bolt pattern


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## 21tuningolf (Dec 29, 2007)

leave that **** alone.


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## cprobst (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re: (21tuningolf)*

not to totally change the subject, but is there a difference between the 12v and 24v downpipe, the reason i question is that tt has a nice downpipe for the 12v and i was wondering if that would work on our cars or not


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (cprobst)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cprobst* »_not to totally change the subject, but is there a difference between the 12v and 24v downpipe, the reason i question is that tt has a nice downpipe for the 12v and i was wondering if that would work on our cars or not

they aren't the same...sorry
been down that road already. I'll see if I can come up with the comparison to prove it if you want


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (21tuningolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *21tuningolf* »_leave that **** alone.

As far as I'm concerned this is good information for someone looking to modify their exhaust beyond the typical Cat Back System.
Didn't everyone's mom tell them to keep their mouth shut if they couldn't say anything good.
BakBer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cprobst (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re: (BakBer)*

no you dont need to compare i figured that would be the case, i guess ill just have to wait for bildon to work their magic if they ever finish their 12v project then i think they are moving to a 24v project if i heard right


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Looks like the 2.8 downpipe and cat are one piece http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GRN6IX* »_Looks like the 2.8 downpipe and cat are one piece http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif

True...and yes very lame http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

So who'll be first to buy the .:R header and make it work


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## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*

Bildon needs to chime in hear....


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (vwaddicct07)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwaddicct07* »_Bildon needs to chime in hear....

don't you mean supersprint???


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_
don't you mean supersprint???


so they can tell us they made a million HP with their own headers? lol.


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_so they can tell us they made a million HP with their own headers? lol.









I think that our forum here lacks performance manufacturer support. The only ppl that really give a crap about us here is C2 motorsports and some advertisers.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_
I *think* that our forum here lacks performance manufacturer support. The only ppl that really give a crap about us here is C2 motorsports and some advertisers.


thats the exact type of mentality that is keeping this forum lacking everything. everybody wants so much out of manufactures but many dont realize that the whole VR6 demographic isn't much profit let alone 24v's. if you want something bad enough i say find somebody that can fabricate it. it's not rocket science.


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## VReihen6 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_

thats the exact type of mentality that is keeping this forum lacking everything. everybody wants so much out of manufactures but many dont realize that the whole VR6 demographic isn't much profit let alone 24v's. if you want something bad enough i say find somebody that can fabricate it. it's not rocket science.

i believe your talking to mr fabricator...


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_thats the exact type of mentality that is keeping this forum lacking everything. everybody wants so much out of manufactures but many dont realize that the whole VR6 demographic isn't much profit let alone 24v's. if you want something bad enough i say find somebody that can fabricate it. it's not rocket science.

Nowhere in that post did I ask anyone to make stuff for our cars. I would just like for someone more experienced let us know what will or will not work. What I was pointing out is that C2 motorsports is on here weekly pointing out faults in our statements and ideas and steering us in the right direction. Chris and Jeff are always helping us...and they sell a great product and service.
I am one of the last people here that needs help fabricating anything. If I need anything you'll have a hard time talking me into paying $1500 to buy a set headers or have it made when the materials to make it are far less than $100.
The truth is if someone wants headers for their 24v someone is going to charge them out the a$$ to fab it up and they'll end up spending somewhere close to $1000 on that service. If I can provide them with the right information to bolt up an existing product to their car with some oem parts from another car then I figure they saved some time dealing with down time on their car waiting on someone to fab up some headers.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (BakBer)*

i wish you could get just the top portions of the headers from SS...then just fab up a nice and easy quick Y-pipe downpipe to connect it to the cat, and bam you're done. easy as ****.


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*

Are you guys still talking about headers!?








This damn thread is always at the top! 

_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_Everybody wants so much out of manufactures but many dont realize that the whole VR6 demographic isn't much profit let alone 24v's.

100% correct - and ON TOP of that since headers will yield almost NO real serious gain - there's even LESS of a reason to fab one!









_Quote, originally posted by *Dubbed95* »_exhaust are the same. intake ports are different.









Untrue. Ports are SLIGHTLY bigger on an .:R32's exhaust side. That supersprint thing might work tho...







HOWEVER you'd still need to fabricate a Y-pipe I think for the base of the headers.
Edit: oh nvm you guys posted pics.










_Modified by MeiK at 8:21 AM 1-9-2008_


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (MeiK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_Are you guys still talking about headers!?








This damn thread is always at the top!

Yep...sorry... but they may help on s/c applications.
rajvosa71000 has 3" exhaust on his s/c'd gti. He has a custom 2.25" y-pipe that he bottle necks into the stock cat then opens it back up to 3" all the way back.
I figure you would be better off with a 2.25 y-pipe going to 2.5 into a 2.5 hi flow cat then 2.5 the rest of the way back...nice and consistent flow.
sorry rajvosa71000. not trying to bash on you just opinions

_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_100% correct - and ON TOP of that since headers will yield almost NO real serious gain - there's even LESS of a reason to fab one!









True...but as long as people think they help they'll continue to buy them if the price is right.

_Quote, originally posted by *MeiK* »_Untrue. Ports are SLIGHTLY bigger on an .:R32's exhaust side. That supersprint thing might work tho...







HOWEVER you'd still need to fabricate a Y-pipe I think for the base of the headers.

I'll measure this when I get a chance but I don't think that they are that different. The bolt pattern is the same. The supersprint headers look like they will bolt up 100% if one were to also bolt up the stock .:R32 cats then their own cat back system after that.


_Modified by BakBer at 1:03 AM 1-10-2008_


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Downpipe perhaps?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3626594


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_Yep...sorry... but they may help on s/c applications.
rajvosa71000 has 3" exhaust on his s/c'd gti. He has a custom 2.25" y-pipe that he bottle necks into the stock cat then opens it back up to 3" all the way back.
I figure you would be better off with a 2.25 y-pipe going to 2.5 into a 2.5 hi flow cat then 2.5 the rest of the way back...nice and consistent flow.
sorry rajvosa71000. not trying to bash on you just opinions

Oh no - I mean I agree with you there... When I had stage 2 VF - I fabbed a 3" pipe at the bottom of my headers and tried a 3" exhaust with a 3" cat and all that - DEFF a gain in power. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







I think that was mainly due to the 3" cat tho... Or because it Y-piped to two 2.5" side exit pipes...








Anyways.
Now that I'm thinking about it - the .:R intake ports are bigger... I forget about the exhaust ports. I'm sure they are slightly bigger tho - but I may have initially been confusing 'em. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ib4tl gtfo ftw (Feb 1, 2007)

not trying to start a war or anything but where did you guys read or see that a header wont make a difference? a header alone should still yield a few whp, but header on top of serious modifications( cams, headwork, etc) should do nothing but help even more, especially if designed correctly to work with the vr. i could have sworn the guys who are running high NA numbers in R's are using a header. sorry if thsi has already been addressed.


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (ib4tl gtfo ftw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ib4tl gtfo ftw* »_not trying to start a war or anything but where did you guys read or see that a header wont make a difference? a header alone should still yield a few whp, but header on top of serious modifications( cams, headwork, etc) should do nothing but help even more, especially if designed correctly to work with the vr. i could have sworn the guys who are running high NA numbers in R's are using a header. sorry if thsi has already been addressed.

I'm with this guy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## killacoupe (Jun 3, 2002)

*Re: (BakBer)*

I made this down pipe for my mk2 swap
2 1/4 pipe with 3inch collector to a 3in exhaust


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (killacoupe)*

NICE!! I like it. That's probably just as good as headers considering the amount of time the exhaust gasses stay in the manifold.


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## cprobst (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re: (ib4tl gtfo ftw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ib4tl gtfo ftw* »_not trying to start a war or anything but where did you guys read or see that a header wont make a difference? a header alone should still yield a few whp, but header on top of serious modifications( cams, headwork, etc) should do nothing but help even more, especially if designed correctly to work with the vr. i could have sworn the guys who are running high NA numbers in R's are using a header. sorry if thsi has already been addressed.

I also tend to agree with this guy too. When I look at other car companies out there for instance honda, when those guys buy headers, dps, and catback exhausts, they are seeing big number increases and that is even when they just have that done to their cars, and this is the same for a lot of v8 too. 
and also not to start a war about companies out there designing stuff for our cars you have to look at the fact that the 24v is a relatively new motor for companies to work with, i mean the mk iv 12v came out in 99 and just recently have companies started to release products made just for those cars, so it seems that it is only a matter of time for the companies to do their research and have the ability to put time into working with the motor, considering they are still devolving parts for the 12v


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (killacoupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killacoupe* »_
I made this down pipe for my mk2 swap
2 1/4 pipe with 3inch collector to a 3in exhaust


























nice! imo that will outperform all those "EQUAL" LENGTH HEADERS allday.


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*

Or, with some patience, this will arrive from Supersprint in Italy, and bolt straight on:











_Modified by jmh2002 at 10:15 AM 2-2-2008_


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Sweet! Maybe by the time they come out, I'll have save the $1500 I'll need to buy them...


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*

that has already been cover on a previous page. The 4motion cars have a different cat setup. the 4motion jetta has the same header and cat set up as the .:R32. If one was willing to spend the money on these headers they would also have to put the 4motion style cats on your car.


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

*Re: (BakBer)*

...well, actually I didnt think it had been covered, as unless I missed something the posts were about fitting the Supersprint R32 headers to the 2,8L 24V motor.
Whereas what I posted above are new headers coming from Supersprint specifically designed for the 2.8L 24V motor which didnt seem to have been mentioned.
They have said 'coming soon' for quite some time and the email reply to me direct from Italy said that the headers were still in development. Hence I believe that this is a new product specially designed for the 2.8L 24V, rather than just a rebranded R32 set.
I do however note your point regarding 4motion, cats, etc, since you are probably talking from a US point of view. 
Anyway, everyone seems very happy with their Supersprint products (except the price!) so once these headers are released Ill be fitting a full Supersprint system, and then a Stage 2 chip upgrade, so I will be able to report back in due course.








Regardless Im interested in the progress made by all the NA guys, as since my car is daily driven, FI probably wont be an option with all the little snags that seem to be apparent. Cams are still being deliberated upon...


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (jmh2002)*

the only difference between the R32 headers and the 4motion 24v headers is the flange size b/c the R32 has larger ports. One could just as easily put the R32 headers on the 2.8l 24v motor.


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

*Re: (BakBer)*

Even with respect to your increased knowledge on this subject I find this hard to believe.
I dont dispute that the R32 headers may fit. However if the only difference was the flange/port size then I dont see why Supersprint would be wasting so much time on development of the new set.









The way I see it is that these new headers will be tuned specifically for the 2.8L 24V motor. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (jmh2002)*

I just noticed that you have a 4motion. I'm sure you know this but the 4motion VR6 cars like your's and the .:R32 have a duel cat setup. I'm certain that this is b/c of the driveshaft.
The .:R32 does have larger exhaust ports than the 2.8l 24v but the bolt pattern is without a doubt the same. Yes you are right that the 24v 4motion headers are probably tuned to optimize the flow of the 2.8l head.
Neither of these headers will bolt right in place of the stock exhaust manifolds on the FWD 24v cars without using the 4motion style cats to bolt up with them.
_I'm not trying to argue the with anyone. I'm just trying to provide people with the correct information to upgrade the stock exhaust manifolds on a 24v._


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_I'm certain that this is b/c of the driveshaft.


Correct


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

*Re: (PowerDubs)*

yep, euro 5door V6 2.8L 24V 4motion, not such a common version. 
Anyway, certainly the more correct information the better, hence my first post with the pic of the of Supersprint headers that are coming for a 2.8L 24V 4motion.
Great explanatory pics PowerDubs! Would be great to talk to you about your NA car.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










_Modified by jmh2002 at 7:33 AM 2-4-2008_


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## Wolfy731 (Oct 27, 2004)

When I purchased my miltek exhaust I inquired about a header and he said ther ewas one currently being tested and to check back at a later date. I have not checked but maybe it is ready. I think the site was statmosphere.com but I could be wrong


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (BakBer)*

make this thing already jeez


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## dinodman (Oct 11, 2003)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

Check out techtonics website for the latest 24V VR6 downpipe. MJM also sells them. SS material as well!


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

Has anyone made or tried a 6-3-1 tri-Y header (as opposed to a 6-2-1)? Also, I've noticed people arguing that the stock manifolds are better than headers because of the unequal lengths, but it seems to me that the unequal lengths are more random than actually compensating for the longer ports on half the engine. For example, compare #2 and #5 runners (the center tubes in each side). One should be long and the other short, but the stock cast manifolds seem to have both rather short. Am I missing something?


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## Veedub_junky (Aug 13, 2005)

*Re: (o2bad455)*

Someone correct me if I'm wrong with this, but the unequal lengths are designed to work specifically with the ports to time the pulses of exhaust gasses for optimal flow. I guarantee there is nothing "random" about the lengths VW engineers used. Take the 12v version as an example - people have tried and tried and have not managed to improve the OEM design. 
For both the 12v and 24v, the head seems to be the primary flow restriction, not the exhaust side. Maybe with enough improvements to the head you could get it to the point that the exhaust became the restriction, but AFAIK, nobody has managed that


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: (Veedub_junky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Veedub_junky* »_For both the 12v and 24v, the head seems to be the primary flow restriction, not the exhaust side. Maybe with enough improvements to the head you could get it to the point that the exhaust became the restriction, but AFAIK, nobody has managed that


Well...at least on the 3.2 gains were realized with each piece of the exhaust that was replaced.. headers/cats/catback all showed gains.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (PowerDubs)*

i still think a ported/gasket matched oem exhaust manifold with a bigger downpipe would be the best as terms of gains. Maybe somebody should test this out







cuz theres alot of opinions on this subject


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## Velocity_Sport_Tuned (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_i still think a ported/gasket matched oem exhaust manifold with a bigger downpipe would be the best as terms of gains. Maybe somebody should test this out







cuz theres alot of opinions on this subject

Done it already







....More tourque down low and as fatter torque curve ....only about 7hp gained but 20+ ftlbs of torque http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## envi (Jul 31, 2005)

*Re: (Velocity_Sport_Tuned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Velocity_Sport_Tuned* »_
Done it already







....More tourque down low and as fatter torque curve ....only about 7hp gained but 20+ ftlbs of torque http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

And all for a few hours work...best bet hand down. Then just fab a downpipe up like the mk2 piece on the previous page.


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## LosDub (Aug 18, 2008)

what benefits is a new DP an Cat wit a new exhaust system over stock dp an cat wit new exhaust?

atm im looking at doin the TT DP an high flo cat w/ either a TT, AWE, Militek or APR exhaust


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## VR6 Manny (Feb 2, 2007)

back from the dead!! 

so wait, i just came across this when looking at catalyst options for replacing my stock one that is rattling
you mean to tell me that this header from supersprint








wont work with R32 cats attached? post cat should be standard cat-back exhaust setup for any VR6 no? Those are the 2.8L 24V headers from supersprint for a 4motion... not for R32


_Modified by VR6 Manny at 11:37 AM 4-9-2010_


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## pushedpast (Aug 19, 2008)

in theory if the r32 headers match up to the 2.8 block couldn't you run a full r32 exhaust and replace your rear valence for the extra pipe?


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## pushedpast (Aug 19, 2008)

*Re: (Wolfy731)*

also, where is a good place to buy militek? the only reputable exhaust i can find that's more than a cat back is TT


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## greekspec2 (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: (PowerDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PowerDubs* »_

Correct
























 whos car is this?


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

Problem is is that BDF motors have two oxygen sensors, not the 4 that the Europe 4-motion and R32 run. Running the dual cat like that would result in only half the exhaust passing by the oxygen sensor. Might cause problems.
Greekspec2 - do you know if running two oxygen sensors on a dual setup will cause the ECU to dump extra fuel?


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (apstguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pushedpast* »_in theory if the r32 headers match up to the 2.8 block couldn't you run a full r32 exhaust and replace your rear valence for the extra pipe?

.:R32's muffler means you'd have to delete the spare tire well... So no - not unless you remove the spare tire well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *apstguy* »_Problem is is that BDF motors have two oxygen sensors, not the 4 that the Europe 4-motion and R32 run. Running the dual cat like that would result in only half the exhaust passing by the oxygen sensor. Might cause problems.
Greekspec2 - do you know if running two oxygen sensors on a dual setup will cause the ECU to dump extra fuel?

^^^ The primary is the issue... .:R32s have 2 primary 02 - and can adjust fuel accordingly. So running 1/2 the air (like you said) by the sensor would cause problems. No reason that I can think of that someone couldn't run that supersprint 2.8L AWD header with a Y-Pipe at the end of it connecting it to a "normal" 2.8L exhaust using a single primary and secondary O2. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## greekspec2 (Apr 16, 2009)

*Re: (MeiK)*















just run a small X-pipe between the downpipe and kat.....add a single bung for the primary and another on the outlet while sealing up the factory four


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## SHaVedGTi (Nov 1, 2001)

*Re: (greekspec2)*

The S2 Metalwerks header made some power for the 12v. Why cant that design be used with a 24v flange.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

He needs someone's stock stuff to mock it up.. HINT


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Bringing this WAY back.

Any companies step up to this?
I looked at all of the companies named in the thread. Seems MJM got sideways and now when you click on their link, it takes you to a Islamic website. idk. Anyways,.. I emailed the rest of the companies. Waiting to here back.

I found a custom set made by JDL and I emailed them about another set. They said "We can't make them because we don't have the fixtures anymore." I emailed them asking if that meant they don't have a car and offered my car. Waiting to hear back.


Anybody else know of any other companies making headers for our engines?

Am I Just beating a dead horse here?


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