# Photos from the Phaeton project VOL 2.



## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Ongoing projects should not be displayed when this may also fail later.
But I still show my video what I am doing now. The headlight shown in the video view is old, which I replaced with a new one. I want to make sure I succeed before I do anything about car headlights.
This shows LED daytime running lights and "moving" turn signals. I'll add more pictures and possibly videos here later









[video]https://youtu.be/nsekI8O8ZvA [/video]

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

The battery charger shown pictured is probably 30 years old. It really has no subtleties.:laugh:

- Jussi


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## Pheaton V8 Umea (May 25, 2018)

Hi Jussi, very nice pictures posted by You. The DRL / moving turn signal, can You please explain how You have done it ? Is it some kit that You have inserted into the headlight or ? Very interesting mod. Greetings from Umeå


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Pheaton V8 Umea said:


> Hi Jussi, very nice pictures posted by You. The DRL / moving turn signal, can You please explain how You have done it ? Is it some kit that You have inserted into the headlight or ? Very interesting mod. Greetings from Umeå


Yes, it's kit. I can cut it to a suitable length. Let’s see if it works when I connect it to my car

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

*DRL and moving turn signal2*

Others side is now installed and itworks









[video]https://youtu.be/heqZBdD24gw [/video]

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

*Phaeton's tailgate problems*

I have a little problem with Phaeton's tailgate.

01699 - Motor for Central Locking; Hatch/Trunk (V53) 
003 - Mechanical Failure - Intermittent
00896 - Trunk Lock Unit (F256) 
008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

I knew to check the wires first, even if the message is a mechanical fault. The wiring was really in poor condition. a few wires had been severed.
At first, I only repair a couple of wires. The trunk hatch will operate for a month. And again, the tailgate doesn’t work.
After that, I decided to renew all the wires. I did the job carefully. I used shrink tubing to protect the joints.
When I got the job done I tested if the tailgate was working. What on earth. It did not work!!!
I carefully checked that the colors of the wires matched the new wires. I did it 3 times. Everything was fine. But the tailgate still doesn't work.
I began to believe that the fault was not in the wires. The fault code was a mechanical fault in the lock mechanism. I installed a new (used) lock mechanism/motor.
Testing again. Still doesn't work. I also chased the control units. That didn't help either. The fault must still be in the wires.
A total of 42 cable connections all with a shrink tubing on top !!! I was to disassemble 10 wiring and the fault was found. Fortunately, only 10.
I had made a bad jointing. If someone ever renews a wiring harness, you need to be extremely careful. I wasn’t and I wasted time.
The tailgate works again. What a relief






















- Jussi


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Jussi12 said:


> Others side is now installed and itworks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow, pretty impressive! Any chance you can provide us with instructions? I'd like to try that out on one of mine.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Wow, pretty impressive! Any chance you can provide us with instructions? I'd like to try that out on one of mine.


Melt the hole with a soldering iron to the end of the headlamp so that it is not visible on the front. It is not worth drilling because small pieces of plastic go inside the headlight.
You can't really get these out of there. You can even buy those light ribbons on eBay. Make connections to the car's original light wires, turn signal and parking light.
Shorten the light strips to a suitable length. You may need a parallel resistor for the light strip. Otherwise, the burner warning light may illuminate in the car's dashboard.
If you do not want to connect the DRL to the parking light. You need a different type of connection or a separate switch. I made the connection to the parking light.

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Jussi12 said:


> Melt the hole with a soldering iron....Make connections to the car's original light wires, turn signal and parking light.... parallel resistor ...warning light




In other words- if you have to ask... ;P


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Interesting mini project. I've got mine apart to do the same thing at the moment. I removed the light lens using a heat gun, but you can also use an oven (if the missus is out!), Saves drilling or melting any holes. That way you've got good control locating and fixing the led strips.

Got a link to the strip you used?

I'm connecting mine up so the DRLs are always on with ignition and then they pulse slower to appear less bright for side lights.

Definitely helps modernise the front end. I really like the quad projector headlights on the gp0 Phaeton.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Ceylon said:


> Interesting mini project. I've got mine apart to do the same thing at the moment. I removed the light lens using a heat gun, but you can also use an oven (if the missus is out!), Saves drilling or melting any holes. That way you've got good control locating and fixing the led strips.
> 
> Got a link to the strip you used?
> 
> ...



Hi,

Do a search on ebay "Sequential LED Strip Turn Signal Switchback Indicator Daytime Running Light"
Needs a little more complex wiring if you want that only the DRL and taillights to light up by turning the ignition key.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I was not going to put pictures here yet while jobs were in progress. But in this picture, I fit Bentley’s rotary knobs. The small ones were easily converted to fit. 
The big one was little harder job. Dremel squeaking a long time and all kinds of adhesives were used.
ZAP will be very close to what it is on Bentley. I think many will be surprised when see it is ready










- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Knobs look great. Where you able to source them separately?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Knobs look great. Where you able to source them separately?


From Ebay maybe. I saw one big knob on sale. Price almost 400 euros. Senseless! I bought the whole Bentley's display unit. I get all the parts I need.
And I didn’t pay 400 euros for it.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> I was not going to put pictures here yet while jobs were in progress. But in this picture, I fit Bentley’s rotary knobs. The small ones were easily converted to fit.
> The big one was little harder job. Dremel squeaking a long time and all kinds of adhesives were used.
> ZAP will be very close to what it is on Bentley. I think many will be surprised when see it is ready
> 
> ...


Hi,

The display unit now looks like this. The Bentley rotary knobs are placed on the old display unit, so here are the old ones. Other knobs are not yet properly in place. I carry all the pieces for laser engraving. To the knobs will comes texts and images through which light can pass out. The frame is now black. I haven't decided yet what coating will come to it. The original imitation of wood has not been completely forgotten.










- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

A couple pictures here. Self-made Loups included.



























- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Not a bad combination either. I was thinking of carbon fiber.
There would be a lot of work in it, when all the other wood surfaces should be covered.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> Not a bad combination either. I was thinking of carbon fiber.
> There would be a lot of work in it, when all the other wood surfaces should be covered.


I forgot the picture.










- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> Hi,
> 
> The display unit now looks like this. The Bentley rotary knobs are placed on the old display unit, so here are the old ones. Other knobs are not yet properly in place. I carry all the pieces for laser engraving. To the knobs will comes texts and images through which light can pass out. The frame is now black. I haven't decided yet what coating will come to it. The original imitation of wood has not been completely forgotten.
> 
> - Jussi


It's not imitation wood. 

It's real veneer. I think it's coated with polyurethane. The piece over the clock "looks" like plastic, but it's still veneer over a plastic base. 

If the piece on the passenger side of the dashboard cracks, a replacement piece from a different Phaeton will not match. I bought the walnut clock piece and the walnut over-glovebox piece from the same eBay seller and they didn't match my Phaeton and didn't even match each other.

Pieces by themselves will not be as noticeable if you replace them but could be a different shade than what's in your Phaeton. The ZAB surround will not be as noticeable but you have to buy the ashtray covers from the same car to make sure they match.

I bought a whole car's worth of wood trim on eBay from Germany and there is a chunk missing from the console. In that hole, you can see the raw wood where it's been broken. 

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> I forgot the picture.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks nice, Jussi.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> It's not imitation wood.
> 
> It's real veneer. I think it's coated with polyurethane. The piece over the clock "looks" like plastic, but it's still veneer over a plastic base.
> 
> ...


Hi Eric,

Ok, this was a new thing for me

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)




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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


>


Interesting video footage

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I was thinking of coating wood surfaces with carbon fiber, but now I’m not at all sure.
I did 2 image manipulations in Photoshop. The wood seems to look good. Does anyone have an opinion?


















- Jussi


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

I prefer the wood look.

You are very talented Jussi. I'm enjoying your project


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> I prefer the wood look.
> 
> You are very talented Jussi. I'm enjoying your project


Many Thanks
It's great to get good feedback. I feel that I am successful in my job.
I've changed my mind. I also think wood looks better than carbon fiber.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I got Bentley's rear mufflers. That the work with Phaeton will not end
Exhaust flaps vacum control have to yet planned.










- Jussi


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Are you planning to ever actually drive this car???:laugh:


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

invisiblewave said:


> Are you planning to ever actually drive this car???:laugh:


I hope so:laugh:
The plan is to prepare to drive next month. I should drive a car to the upholsterer, it is 300 km away.
I have to choose leather for the seats first. Now I'm planning a new shape of seats.

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Jussi12 said:


> Exhaust flaps vacum control have to yet planned.



Probably no need- I would imagine in the 'open' position they will be very loud. Probably best just to wire the levers shut. If that proves the appropriate level, you could even delete the vacuum valve itself.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> Are you planning to ever actually drive this car???:laugh:




Nah- lets keep giving him ideas. 


Jussi- your stalks are too fat and chunky. You need these sleek sophisticated ones!!


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Probably no need- I would imagine in the 'open' position they will be very loud. Probably best just to wire the levers shut. If that proves the appropriate level, you could even delete the vacuum valve itself.


You are probably right. However, I am a little crazy, so sometimes I can get a little crazy ideas that I want to do 
Now I got the idea that I could sometimes open the exhaust flaps while driving a car. Exhaust sounds would probably be loud. Such systems are present in some sports cars.
I was wondering if there are 3-way valves that I only need one. Maybe I need 2 valves to control the flaps so I can control them myself.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Nah- lets keep giving him ideas.
> 
> 
> Jussi- your stalks are too fat and chunky. You need these sleek sophisticated ones!!


Nice to have new ideas to do with the car
Some Phaetons and other cars have those gear shift levers. They probably work just fine and many like them.
I don’t think those levers look stylish. I stress that this is just my opinion.
My RS6 had shift buttons on the steering wheel. No levers. Butons will looks more subdued.
They didn't bother me.

- Jussi


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Oh, you absolutely have to get the vacuum pipe hooked up! It would be quite simple to set up if you just want an on/off switch. You could run a vac source back there alongside the fuel lines with a simple 3 port vac solenoid to do the work. Now ideally you'd want it also to open with accelerator load as I imagine it's quite restrictive when closed off, you can get modules that do this and just tap into that wire from the accelerator pedal. It would be pretty cool to also have it open at startup to get the good exhaust growl at start-up like Porsches etc do .


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Jussi12 said:


> Nice to have new ideas to do with the car
> Some Phaetons and other cars have those gear shift levers. They probably work just fine and many like them.
> I don’t think those levers look stylish




Not the shift paddles, the actual indicator and wiper stalks- much thinner than the Phaeton ones. And yes- the paddles are smaller than the Phaeton/Bentley ones as well.

Might be possible to get the ends off the arms and swap on the Bentley metal bits.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Ceylon said:


> Now ideally you'd want it also to open with accelerator load as I imagine it's quite restrictive when closed off,




Should flow enough closed to support any power the engine will make...and more than the stock mufflers. Just visually looking at the outlet pipes compared to the Phaeton ones is strikingly more open.

What was the lowest Bentley output? 550hp?


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

PowerDubs said:


> Should flow enough closed to support any power the engine will make...and more than the stock mufflers. Just visually looking at the outlet pipes compared to the Phaeton ones is strikingly more open.
> 
> What was the lowest Bentley output? 550hp?


How is it regulated on the Bentley? I'd imagine it opens up with the throttle position like most other VAG cars with this set up. No harm in having a more restricted set up when it's not required e.g. low-medium load cruise and normal driving.

But why would you turn down something that is mostly done for you and could be better for not a huge amount of effort? Granted the w12 is not turbocharged, so it won't benefit to the same degree the Bentley would as NA cars are more about exhaust velocity than volume, but it'd still flow noticeably better up top I'd say from all the dyno time I've spent playing with exhaust restrictions. But personally, I'd want it for the sound more than anything else. Quiet when cruising and a good growl on heavy acceleration, best of both worlds :thumbup:.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Quite simply because I think in the closed position it will probably already be plenty loud enough, and flow as much as the engine can use.

Trust me- if I ever get around to fitting the mufflers on my car, I will dyno them both ways... but I have also done hundreds of other dynos on many many modifications on cars and motorcycles. There comes a point where bigger no longer makes any more power, and can cause losses. On anything- intake manifolds, cams, head ports, exhaust parts.

I wouldn't expect any loss whatsoever from these mufflers whether open or closed- by the time the air gets there it has already done what it needs to do- opening the valves won't slow velocity, I just don't think it will gain cfm.

I think open position will be TOO loud (remember turbos greatly muffle exhaust noise) and no gain to be had on power. As always, I could be wrong.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Ceylon said:


> Oh, you absolutely have to get the vacuum pipe hooked up! It would be quite simple to set up if you just want an on/off switch. You could run a vac source back there alongside the fuel lines with a simple 3 port vac solenoid to do the work. Now ideally you'd want it also to open with accelerator load as I imagine it's quite restrictive when closed off, you can get modules that do this and just tap into that wire from the accelerator pedal. It would be pretty cool to also have it open at startup to get the good exhaust growl at start-up like Porsches etc do .


Something like that I'm doing

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Quite simply because I think in the closed position it will probably already be plenty loud enough, and flow as much as the engine can use.
> 
> Trust me- if I ever get around to fitting the mufflers on my car, I will dyno them both ways... but I have also done hundreds of other dynos on many many modifications on cars and motorcycles. There comes a point where bigger no longer makes any more power, and can cause losses. On anything- intake manifolds, cams, head ports, exhaust parts.
> 
> ...


If the open position is too loud, I can narrow the exhaust port in the pipe where the flap is. I dont know that, before mufflers is installed and tested.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> I got Bentley's rear mufflers. That the work with Phaeton will not end
> Exhaust flaps vacum control have to yet planned.
> 
> 
> ...


It is not about horsepower, nor about exhaust gas flows. It is about sounds. I want great exhaust sounds.
If I want, the exhaust sounds can be quite loud. However, so that I can make them quieter if necessary.
A few words about exhaust flows and horsepower. Exhaust gases need more space as they come out of the engine cylinders.
Partly because they are hot. That is, the exhaust pipes should be spacious at the beginning of the pipes.
As the exhaust cools, so much space is no longer needed. In other words, I think Bentley’s mufflers don't limit power even if the flap is closed.
Especially when they are rated for a more efficient turbocharged engine.
But as I said earlier, it’s about great exhaust sounds.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> Others side is now installed and itworks
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> I was thinking of coating wood surfaces with carbon fiber, but now I’m not at all sure.
> I did 2 image manipulations in Photoshop. The wood seems to look good. Does anyone have an opinion?
> 
> 
> ...



More problem and lot of works:banghead:

Laser engraving failed. The light-transmitting white plastic of the piece was not suitable for laser engraving. The engraving imprint was bad.The engraving material must therefore be replaced.
This means that a piece of suitable plastic must be placed on each piece. Cutting, gluing, grinding, painting, etc.
the illustration shows the openings into which the appropriate material is inserted. The second picture shows the seat that should be installed. I don't know yet how it I do it.


















- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

The whole day went. Yes, it is a slow job 

White knobs.










- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

ZAP is ready for finishing

Now it has already been painted and re-exported for laser engraving. The Bentley interior arrived today. 150 kg. The package is unopened. I have a fear that there will be a long wrestling before they are installed to Phaeton. The seller stated that the interior is from the W3 model range. They are from the W4 model series, which started in 2014. Seat control module is different than earlier model 


















- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Jussi12 said:


> ZAP is ready for finishing
> 
> Now it has already been painted and re-exported for laser engraving. The Bentley interior arrived today. 150 kg. The package is unopened. I have a fear that there will be a long wrestling before they are installed to Phaeton. The seller stated that the interior is from the W3 model range. They are from the W4 model series, which started in 2014. Seat control module is different than earlier model
> 
> - Jussi




Wow- that blows. Where did you get them from? Can you file a claim?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Wow- that blows. Where did you get them from? Can you file a claim?


The seats are like new. From the model year 2016. Driven about 10,000 km.
But how do I get them to Phaeton. I bought through Ebay. There's a mention of W3.
Now in these all part numbers start with W4. I have sent a message to the seller.
But...It would be great to make them fit in Phaeton. The whole interior was included, total 150 kg.










- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Only one way to know- step #1, take out your seat.


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Looking at the Bentley muffler design, the "open" setting will make the muffler a straight through system, providing a even less restrictive exhaust path. 
When it comes to horsepower on normally aspirated, there might be some difference, but nothing spectacular. It will help obviously. 

Here are a couple of links to installation hardware used for the mentioned Porsches. Normally when selling to companies, they do provide a discount but even so the kits remain pricy. 

https://www.fvd.net/de-en/BESKLS0000FB/remote-control-unit-for-valved-exhausts-for-oem-or-fvd-exhausts.html
https://www.fvd.net/de-en/BESKLS000001/retrofit-kit-for-valved-exhausts.html
https://www.fvd.net/de-en/BESKLS001001/valve-control-with-back-pressure-control-and-remote.html
https://www.fvd.net/de-en/BESKLS9972TU/997-2-turbo-retrofit-kit-for-valve-exhaust-switch-valve-exhaust.html
https://www.fvd.net/de-en/BESKLS970001/retrofit-kit-panamera-970-for-valved-exhausts.html


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

There is no need for any of that unless you want that remote. 

But why? 

Who needs to change while walking in a parking lot?

Get it the car and flick a hidden toggle under the dash panel.

Wire, toggle, vacuum line, T fitting, solenoid- maybe, MAYBE $50 all in.

But again- no need. Closed should easily provide peak CFM, and open should be too loud, and possibly sound _bad_.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

*Interior project*

Interior project start

Driver seat first. I don't have any idea is this project possible. But let's see. This really is not plug and play.









Old seats remowed









New seat disassembled.

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Ummm... yeah...


If anyone can do it- you can. 


I would have bought the first gen Spur seats. 


What steering wheel do I see hiding there?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Ummm... yeah...
> 
> If anyone can do it- you can.
> I would have bought the first gen Spur seats.
> What steering wheel do I see hiding there?


Yes, first generation Spur seats are plug and play.
I didn’t expect this to be so difficult. I belive the seats are 3W, but they are 4W. That is the second generation.
The latest Audi A8 has the same seat frame.
I have changed to the heated steering wheel, which is rebuild with new leather.










- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Maybe it's possible ???

Now I have to think carefully about how to proceed with this project.
Platform is same till year 2019. It is called D1. So both can be installed in Phaeton.
I think I use Bentley frames. I'm just moving the componets, wiring looms, control module to it.
I haven’t thought enough yet to make a decision. What I do next, would be irrevocable, maybe.









Phaeton and Bentley seat frame.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> Maybe it's possible ???
> 
> Now I have to think carefully about how to proceed with this project.
> Platform is same till year 2019. It is called D1. So both can be installed in Phaeton.
> ...


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I was expecting something like this :banghead:

The electric motors of the seat must be replaced by those which Phaeton control device is able to control.
Electric motors give pulses to the Phaeton controller. The Bentley control module does not need these pulses from all electric motors.
The Bentley controller is not compatible with Phaeton's electrical system. Some electric motors are easier to replace with those that give pulses.
2 electric motors in the seat are a problem. In these, the motor is integrated into the gear.
I don't know how to solve this problem. More problems are likely to come. Challenges are made to be overcome, perhaps?





















- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I was wrong. fortunately!!! 

At least this electric motor problem has been solved.
just a few minutes and the problem disappeared.
The electric motor was not integrated into the gear so that it could not be replaced.
Well something unexpected is still coming. I don't know yet what it is.











- Jussi


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Jussi12 said:


> I was wrong. fortunately!!!
> 
> At least this electric motor problem has been solved.
> just a few minutes and the problem disappeared.
> ...


Hi Jussi.
Do you have functions for some electrical motors without available controls? 
In that case you can add an Arduino and a motor-sketch that controls the extra functions. 
The code is fairly simple.
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi Jussi.
> Do you have functions for some electrical motors without available controls?
> In that case you can add an Arduino and a motor-sketch that controls the extra functions.
> The code is fairly simple.
> ...


Thanks for the advice 

Yes, there are a many electric motors in Bentley seats.
Editing is maybe easy. But I placed an order yesterday. 4 electric motors cost only about 70 euros.


- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

The seat project continues 

Phaeton stepper motor with pulse connectors mounted on Bentley control rod.
The shaft had to be shortened, but the threads did not need to be cut down.
They fit inside the gear well and function tested.










VIDEO
















- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Seat bottom adjust motor.

Seat bottom adjust motor is now replaced. 
The Phaeton seat control unit can now control the operation.
Now I expect to get 4 missing electric motors. 2 on each front seat.
The other missing motors I get from the old Phaeton's seats.
Not all Bentley seat motors need to be replaced.










- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm a little crazy, when I do this project. However, this is a nice job to do 
Well, not all job are always so nice, but they have to be done to get what I want.
Bentley fans are not allowed to operate properly with the Phaeton controller.
They are rotating in the wrong direction. By changing the wiring, it rotates in the wrong direction or not at all.


































- Jussi


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Hi Jussi.
Do you know if its PWM fans?
Have you measured on the wires with an oscilloscope, if you have one?
PWM fans are full speed at low, off at high and pulse length sets speed in between.
If my memory is correct. 
Wiken

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Great work! Interesting to see the insides of the chairs!


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi Jussi.
> Do you know if its PWM fans?
> Have you measured on the wires with an oscilloscope, if you have one?
> PWM fans are full speed at low, off at high and pulse length sets speed in between.
> ...


Yes, you are right. The fans may have PWM (Pulse width modulation).
There is another way to control the fan speed and direction of rotation.
I just can’t remember how this other works. In any case, an oscilloscope is needed for examination.
I do not have it. By changing the electronics of the fan, the Bentley fan could be made to rotate in the right direction.
I also tried to turn the fan impeller the other way around.
I found that it is not possible due to the mechanical structure of the fan
However, it was easier to install Phaeton fans on the Bentley seats.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Unbelievable but true.
I thought shortening the shaft was enough. But another seat motor became an unexpected problem.
I tried desperately to push the shaft into the gear. I had shortened the shaft to a suitable length.
I finally got it in place using mild violence. The engine was stuck and did not run.
It took a long time before, with accurate measurement, I noticed that the spirals were different. Looking at them, they looked similar.
I heated the spiral part with a gas burner and removed the spiral part from the shaft.
I moved the spiral part to the other shaft and put bearing lock adhesive on the shaft.
I installed the motor in gear. Test and it running to normal. This was a big profit. Yes I did it










- Jussi


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Good job.

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

There is enough work, but it must continue 

The first picture show how from two of the seat motors is get a one functional. 
The other pictures show the new mounting points for the massager.











































- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I appreciate your dedication. I would have given up, thrown it all in the bin already...and bought gen 1 Spur seats. 




Still anxiously awaiting the Bentley mufflers install.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Found a video of Bentley mufflers on the V8-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3e2Uj-2MPI


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Oh damn. aijaa.com is classified "not secure",Or something else has happened. 
All my pictures have disappeared from the forum. I need to find another provider for
to save my pictures.

This seat project became a huge job. But I will not give up. 
I can’t recommend this job to anyone. Well maybe someone is as crazy as I am.

Something has been achieved, but much work remains to be done. Watch the video at the link.








- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Found a video of Bentley mufflers on the V8-
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3e2Uj-2MPI


Great sounds 

My Bentley mufflers are not installed, because the seats take all my time.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Yes, pictures is back and project continue

I installed 2 PTC-thermistors in the seat of the Bentley. I took them from Phaeton's seats. The PTC-thermistor is not installed on the Backrest of the Bentley seat.
It was needed because the Phaeton control unit is in use. The 2 gen Benyley's seat control panel worked in some way, but gives a lot of fault codes.
I had to build one of the two control panels to work. The 1st gen Bentley control panel would probably have worked, but I didn't want to pay a hundreds euros for it.
I forgot to take a photo from inside the phaeton control panel. but it is different. Now the seat is almost ready.
The leather upholstery has yet to be installed. Before that, a couple of problems still need to be solved.
- backrest blower give fault code, but it works normaly.
- some motors runs, but I have to push button many times. I think 
they don't give pulse.
- for some reason VCDS scanning stops at address 46 (comfort 
module). It does read it, but does not give fault codes and the scan 
stops. Scanning continues when I skipping address 46.
The Comfort module also controls the trunk lid and it works normally.


























- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Yes, that was it! 
The pulse wires of some seat adjustment motors were cross-connected. Now the connection is correct and the control unit receives pulses.
Now the seat moves continuously when the button is pressed. It was a relief. Now everything works in the seat.
Now I install the padding foams and leather upholstery, and the driver’s bench is ready.
Next I have to make the right seat. Now when I know how to do it, I don’t think it takes that much time.

Oh, I forgot 2 things.
1 Fault Found:
01890 - Control Circuit Blower for Backrest 
009 - Open or Short to Ground. 
Fault is mystery, becouse blower works normaly.
Air ducts from blower to the backrest must also be built.
Well these are not difficult to do.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> Yes, that was it!
> The pulse wires of some seat adjustment motors were cross-connected. Now the connection is correct and the control unit receives pulses.
> Now the seat moves continuously when the button is pressed. It was a relief. Now everything works in the seat.
> Now I install the padding foams and leather upholstery, and the driver’s bench is ready.
> ...


The driver's seat is definitely not ready
The blower fault has been resolved. I had removed the passenger side blower. When I put it in place, there was no more fault code
The rest of the seat motors also had to be replaced. The Bentley motors somehow had a different pulse for the controller.
I don’t have an oscilloscope, so I couldn’t see the difference. The control unit and the second massage motor had to be placed behind the bench.
There was not enough space under the seat. Wire routes have yet to be planned. And so on.
Yes, this is really difficult to implement and it requires patience before it is ready.


























































- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Phew:screwy:
Maybe I didn't start installing Bentley’s 2nd generation seats if I knew how big the work could be. But now it is imperative to finish this.
By the way, the 2020 Bentley Flying Spur has same seats. Later in 2020, the flying Spur was renewed. I’m not sure if that model still has the same seats.


















- Jussi


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

Wiring looks good, you must really love those seats .


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Wow Jussi, what a job you made. I hope you have fun doing it.
And well done. Looking forward to see the end result.
Wiken

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks everyone for all the encouragement.:thumbup:

The seat is now installed in the car. I've tested it today. Everything else works normally except 2 servomotor.
Headrest height adjustment and seat section length adjustment.
These 2 servomotor work, but the control knob has to be pressed 3 times, when adjusting from one end to the other.
It look like the control unit not receiving a pulse from the servomotor. However, there is no longer any Bentley electrical equipment in the seat.
I have tried several servomotor and changed the polarity of the pulse lines. Nothing helps.
Could the control unit be broken? However, everything works. But that little distraction trouble me.
I wouldn't want to upholster the seat until everything worked perfectly.
The oscilloscope doesn't help either, because I don't think all of the servomotor I've tried would be faulty.
I mean, they give a pulse to the controller. I will still try another control unit.
I don't really think anyone will be able to help me with this little malfunction.
But if anyone has an idea, I'll be happy to take help.

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Jussi12 said:


> But if anyone has an idea, I'll be happy to take help.




Find a nice set of '06, 07, 08 Spur seats. 

As the other guy said- you must really love those seats. 

That being said- GOOD JOB!!!!


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Find a nice set of '06, 07, 08 Spur seats.
> 
> As the other guy said- you must really love those seats.
> 
> That being said- GOOD JOB!!!!


Ha ha, That would be the most sensible idea
But I'm not used to giving up. The seats of the 2nd generation Spur are sure to come to Phaeton.
They already work so well, that I can accept them. Seat depth adjustment and head-rest adjustment works, but I have to push button maybe more than 1 times.

I changed J393 Central control unit for convenience system because VCDS could not connect to it. The fault disappeared. Then some new faults appear.
01973 – Seat Depth Adjustment Sensor (G378)
011 – Open Circuit
01479 – Sensor Head-Rest Adjustment (G129)
011 – Open Circuit
02158 – Supply Voltage for Seat Adjustment Sensor
007 – Short to Ground

I doubt if those fault codes are right because all the other adjust motors work without problems. I have also change several adjustment motors to those with have problem.
The main power cables of the motors are connected correctly because the control knobs are working in the right direction. The pulse wires polarity changing has no effect.
I also tried a other seat control panel. I suspect the seat control unit is defective. So fault codes may be correct if the seat control unit is defective.
I already ordered a new (used) for 38 euros.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Now I'm waiting for the seat control unit if it solves the little malfunction 
Btw, I got this kind of bonus for both seats.










- Jussi


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Jussi12 said:


> Thanks everyone for all the encouragement.
> 
> The seat is now installed in the car. I've tested it today. Everything else works normally except 2 servomotor.
> Headrest height adjustment and seat section length adjustment.
> ...


Hi Jussi.

As I understand you have measured different motors using an oscilloscope. 
One question: Are the time periods the same between the motors return pulse?

It could be a timing difference between them that make it not work. 

Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

gwiken65 said:


> Hi Jussi.
> 
> As I understand you have measured different motors using an oscilloscope.
> One question: Are the time periods the same between the motors return pulse?
> ...


Hi Wiken 

I don’t have an oscilloscope, but at first I thought the same thing you said. Today I tested the control of the motors with VCDS.
I can see with it all the motors, their movement in both directions and the value of the position.
I noticed that these problem motors are moving, but the numerical value does not change.
So no pulse. Therefore, they don't move continiously. I noticed that the steering wheel motors have the same problem.
I haven't done anything about it and the wiring is coming straight from the same control unit.
My suspicion that the control unit is partially defective get more confirm.

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I don't know much about electric- but whatever vw does is interesting.

Example- I don't know how it works, but I have witnessed on more than one car where a dash vent cover won't move- but take it out- apply 12v to it, put it back and it then works perfectly fine afterward.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> I don't know much about electric- but whatever vw does is interesting.
> 
> Example- I don't know how it works, but I have witnessed on more than one car where a dash vent cover won't move- but take it out- apply 12v to it, put it back and it then works perfectly fine afterward.


Yes, it is interesting. In other words, complex.

The address of the seat control unit on the left is 36. On the right (passenger) the address is 6. Both control units have the same part number.
The control unit on the right works well, so I thought of trying it on the other side. What happened.
The VCDS reported that there is a left control unit at address 6 with faults.
The steering wheel electrical controls did not work because the required wires do not go to the control unit on the right.
The experiment ended there.
I received the seat control unit I ordered yesterday. Of course it was faulty. It worked even worse than the current one in my car.
The seller promised to send another one that should work.
Let's see if it works. I am already considering buying a new one. I saw one for sale for about £ 350.

- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> Yes, it is interesting. In other words, complex.
> 
> The address of the seat control unit on the left is 36. On the right (passenger) the address is 6. Both control units have the same part number.
> The control unit on the right works well, so I thought of trying it on the other side. What happened.
> ...


See if there are jumpers on the control units. 

Back 1000 years ago, I worked on a test set with the HPIB bus. (Hewlet Packard Interface Bus.) Each piece of test equipment had an address set by dip switches or jumpers. I think they were binary. You can convert decimal to binary but your bad control unit should have the address set in it. 

The address may be set electrically via VCDS though. Did you check coding?

What happened to your original control units?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> See if there are jumpers on the control units.
> 
> Back 1000 years ago, I worked on a test set with the HPIB bus. (Hewlet Packard Interface Bus.) Each piece of test equipment had an address set by dip switches or jumpers. I think they were binary. You can convert decimal to binary but your bad control unit should have the address set in it.
> 
> ...


I don't know if there are jumpers or dip switches inside the control unit. But on the left (driver's side) the wiring harness connector has jumpers.
Left side control unit code is 0000004 and right side is 0000003. I try change 0000003 to 0000004 but module don't acceps this.
In any case, I need a working left side seat control module
So I'll wait for it. Original control unit is partial defective also.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> I don't know if there are jumpers or dip switches inside the control unit. But on the left (driver's side) the wiring harness connector has jumpers.
> Left side control unit code is 0000004 and right side is 0000003. I try change 0000003 to 0000004 but module don't accept this.
> In any case, I need a working left side seat control module
> So I'll wait for it. Original control unit is partial defective also.
> ...


I forgot the Picture.










- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Now it is confirmed  

Bentley Flying Spur generation 2 seats can be installed in Phaeton.
All seats functions work well without any fault. Absolutely a huge job
The VCDS showed that it is the sensor fault. Sensors located inside the stepper motor. I belived the fault was in the seat control unit.
At some point, I began to suspect that I had done the wrong wiring.
Fortunately, I did nothing for the wiring. I installed a few control units, all with the same fault. Could this be called a type defect.
The last one was fully functional, after all. Pictures of a few seat control modules and wrapped panels.


















- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Wow that console / display looks great!!

You should replace the seat heat / shocks / switch assembly with the black version. It will probably be hard to find used- but they exist.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> Wow that console / display looks great!!
> 
> You should replace the seat heat / shocks / switch assembly with the black version. It will probably be hard to find used- but they exist.


Gosh! You came up with more work for me 
Yes, the black switch assembly would fit fine in the center console. Maybe I'll do it later. Much other work remains to be done before that

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Jussi12 said:


> Much other work remains to be done before that




I'm waiting to see what you are going to do with the glovebox button.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> I don't know much about electric- but whatever vw does is interesting.
> 
> Example- I don't know how it works, but I have witnessed on more than one car where a dash vent cover won't move- but take it out- apply 12v to it, put it back and it then works perfectly fine afterward.


I don't know if this case is any way same you told, but…

I noticed this while battling the stepper motor on the seat.
Using the VCDS, I looked at all the engine functions separately and noticed that some of the control numbers were quite big.
Maybe too big and motors dont work like they could. These adjustment values ​​are stored in the seat control unit.
I couldn't get them to count down before I came up with a way to reduce position number values.
I removed the connector from the adjustment motor in the seat. I attached a other motor to the connector so that there was no mechanical obstacle to run it indefinitely.
I running it from the knob on the seat control panel and followed the position number value with VCDS.
I followed as the position number dropped to lower value. I then reinstalled the connector on the motor in the seat.
Now a new position number value was stored in the seat control unit. After that, the seat motor works fine over the entire adjustment range.

- Jussi


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Man. You are clever !


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Jussi12 said:


> I don't know if this case is any way same you told, but…
> 
> I noticed this while battling the stepper motor on the seat.
> Using the VCDS, I looked at all the engine functions separately and noticed that some of the control numbers were quite big.
> ...


Very clever approach but wouldn't disconnecting power from the control unit also reset the values? Every time the VPS battery gets disconnected you have to run adaptation for all the electrical motors with position sensors, like seats and windows.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Very clever approach but wouldn't disconnecting power from the control unit also reset the values? Every time the VPS battery gets disconnected you have to run adaptation for all the electrical motors with position sensors, like seats and windows.


That's what I also thought myself 


I disconnect the batteries and control units many times, however, I didn’t get all the engines to work properly. Eventually, after replacing the seat control unit a couple of times, I got the motors work well (the last control unit then worked). Last one procedure was, what I did (mentioned above) for the height-adjustable motor of the seat, After which everything worked. There were several of other problems when I replaced all the electronics to Bentley Spur 2nd generation seat frame and installes it to Phaeton.


- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Soon the first seat will be upholstered, and I will install it in Phaeton 

I hope that everything goes well. I'm a little scared, that some problems will appear, because there have been many nasty surprises before this stage.
I had to give up another seatbelt reel. The seat belt only comes out from above. A little annoying becouse 2 seat belt reels was so comfortable.
Another reel could not fit in to Bentley seat. Bentley importer said, that in Bentley has never been second reel.











- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Project go on 

The seat is now installed in place and it finally works the way it should. There were problems with the lights on the table behind the backrest.
The power supply for the lights normaly come from the seat control unit. I didn't got it work.
Now the power supply is taken from the rear seat power supply socket. This does not interfere with the car's electrical system.
The seat backerest upholstery panels are not yet installed. The seat control unit and wiring will be hidden under them.


















































- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

A little more is coming 

The car will go to the upholstery in August. The rear seat and doors will upholstered to fit the new style.
The engine will also receive an additional upgrade. At least 500 hp is the goal. The appearance of the car will be slightly modified.
The Bentley mufflers should be installed before upgrading the engine.

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Nice!!!

The seat piping ties in nicely with the silver trim around the cupholders that you did.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

If you get bored with the wrap-

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Phaeton...513003?hash=item213a44dfab:g:bnkAAOSwImlanRZt


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> If you get bored with the wrap-
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Phaeton...513003?hash=item213a44dfab:g:bnkAAOSwImlanRZt


Pretty nice looking, but I like my own more 
Rear side of the center console is also nearing completion. Pictures are coming soon.


- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi again 

I haven't had much time to renovate the car. However, something I have done. The rear console is wrapped in 3 different colors.
The wood trims are now black all the way to the back. Not really visible in the pictures. Rear console show little empty.
Maybe I install touch screen to it, like iPad. Here is some pics.



































































- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

The upholsterer is still handling the car. So I can’t take the project forward. Partly for my own reason, because I wanted to fix an already made back seat. Now I should get my car back in 1-2 weeks. Here are a few pictures.This forum have really relevant and nice guys. Happy Christmas time to everyone!


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,

Now that I got my car back from the upholstery, I continue to fixing my Phaeton. The story go on (with new pics of the car) 

- Jussi​


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## Ceylon (May 15, 2019)

That looks really good! Liking the Bentley inspired retrim, will be a very unique car.


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## Nasser_SA (Nov 25, 2019)

Mate It's stuning 
Good efort like it.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,
Thanks for the encouraging comments Ceylon and Naser_SA 

The tuning continues again!
Bentley rear muffers to Phaeton. Bentley rear mufflers have a butterfly valve. When you start the engine, these butterfly valves close normally when they get a vacuum from the intake manifold. Then the sound is not so loud. I made a system where these vacuum flap valves can be controlled open or closed with a remote control. I am not yet installet this system to Phaeton. In the picture is a little 
more info.










- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,
Here are a few pictures before Audi drove behind the Stop traffic sign. So the cause of the crash was not in me. In the last picture a damaged car. 































​


























- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,Last pictures with a picture of the damage.​​

























- Jussi


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

😯😧🤧


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

What a bummer, especially after all the work you put into the car! Looks like it should be fairly straight forward to repair but not necessarily cheap though. I assume the other driver's insurance will pay for it.

I bought one of my W12s as a wreck from an insurance auction and it had worse damage, took me a couple of months but it was worth it to save it from being parted out.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Well, a lot of money is gone and countless hours are worked. At this stage, the preliminary cost estimate provided by the workshop is approximately € 15,000.00. Counterparty insurance company should pay for car repairs. I am still waiting for the insurance company's decision.
I believe repairing that car of yours has been hard work.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I played a little with Photoshop. Front grille that was not installed due to a crash.









- Jussi


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

You have done an awesome job Jussi. I'm very impressed by your renovation and rebuild to the car you want.
From today I have another hero to look up to. 
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Jussi12 said:


> Well, a lot of money is gone and countless hours are worked. At this stage, the preliminary cost estimate provided by the workshop is approximately € 15,000.00. Counterparty insurance company should pay for car repairs. I am still waiting for the insurance company's decision.
> I believe repairing that car of yours has been hard work.


I hope it works out for you and the insurance pays for the repairs instead of writing the car off. Not sure how it works in Finland but here in the US if the insurance wants to total the car you can keep the car for a lower settlement amount and repair it yourself, which is what I did recently.

The repairs on that silver W12 weren't actually that bad because the engine was not damaged and there was no frame damage, just mostly the stuff in front of the engine.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I'm not going to hand over the car to the insurance company. I'm going to keep the car. Now let’s see what the insurance company decides. I sent a link to them here on the VWvortex site so they can see that the car is in particularly great condition. Partly better than when leaving the factory.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

gwiken65 said:


> You have done an awesome job Jussi. I'm very impressed by your renovation and rebuild to the car you want.
> From today I have another hero to look up to.
> Wiken
> 
> Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


Thank you​for your Support
- Jussi​


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Some pictures were sometimes missing.​Now everything seems to be fine and also the accident pictures are here. I still haven't received contact from the insurance company. The reason for the delay is probably the slowness of the workshop to calculate the cost estimate

- Jussi​


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I made a satisfies deal with the insurance company  
So I'll take care of the repair myself. So now are a lot of parts to buy.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

"A few" part removed from the car. Now that the engine and gearbox have been removed, check to see if anything needs to be repaired. The cam chain, stroller and tensioner will at least be replaced. Surely more will be done.​

















- Jussi​


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Nice progress and thanks for the photos! What's that box shaped thing hanging off the right hand side front?


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## ChefroA6 (Dec 3, 2020)

It will take some Herculean work to get it back together. I bid you good luck, sir.🏋️‍♂️🏋️‍♂️🏋️‍♂️🎥

@Phaetonlvr : I think it is a Vapor/Charcoal Canister. I might be wrong


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Very impressive. Such a shame that you have had to do this after all your efforts. 
It really is a big lump of an engine. What was (and is) a marvel of technology is now quite archaic looking now compared to an electric motor.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks again to everyone for their interest in this project. Purchasing parts has proven challenging. But yes, I will survive it.
However, it will take some time before the car is ready to moving again.
That hanging weird box is a tuning for the fresh air fan. It is the resistor 3D0907521.
I built that at a time when I couldn't stand the job of getting it in the right place in the fan duct.
It has not been in use for a while and is now being completely removed. The working resistor has been in the right place for some time.

- Jussi


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

I do like to follow your project. 
You have done sn interesting makeover of your P.
Also saving some pictures that can show me the inside of something that I might need to remove/replace. 
This is something I miss sometimes, wondering how it may look on my way in.
Wiken

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

The engine seems to be very dirty inside. My purpose is dismantled the engine. I will also replace the piston rings if I find new ones somewhere.
Does anyone know where I could find piston rings for the W12 engine? 

12 x 3 pcs. I found those values and are probably in millimeters and are probably rings thicknesses. Or are they? Seems so thin.
Cylinder bore is 84 millimeters​
1st ring: 1.2
2nd ring: 1
Oil ring: 2​
- Jussi​


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

The Mk4 R32 also had an 84mm bore.

Can’t promise they are the same... but could very well be as the engines are pretty similar


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

If they have the same bore, the Phaeton W12 must have a shorter stroke because it's only 6.0 liters. I wonder if they use the same pistons. 

You could probably find engine internals if you also look for Bentley or Audi W12 parts. 

Are you planning on boring the cylinders or just honing them?


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Jussi12 said:


> The engine seems to be very dirty inside. My purpose is dismantled the engine. I will also replace the piston rings if I find new ones somewhere.
> Does anyone know where I could find piston rings for the W12 engine?
> 
> 12 x 3 pcs. I found those values and are probably in millimeters and are probably rings thicknesses. Or are they? Seems so thin.
> ...


Here is how it looks on the W8/W12 pistons (same pistons).























Lennart


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks again to everyone for your interest and pictures, etc.  
I haven’t found the piston rings yet, but I think I’ll find them. The cylinders are only to be honed.
The car is now in the repair shop and my job is to find the parts I need.​The picture shows an old reflector of old headlights. As you can see from the picture, it turns partially black and the light output is poor. Long headlights usually do not have this problem.​​I bought new headlights fir both side, I disassamble them and make the changes I want, Headlidhts background will be in Black.​​​ A dynamic sweeping turn light will be installed and led daytime running lights. Now I can do it better, The plastic housing lens on the headlights is difficult to remove because it does not come off when heated. It must be removed mechanically by cutting it off. Huge job.The plastic cover lens of the headlights is not glued with butyl mass, but with a hard glue. A few pictures of this thing .I will put more pictures as the work progresses.









































- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Modified headlight almost ready.
Turn signal/running daylight reflector in place and assembly by gluing.







- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I ordered one used piston (BAN W12 6.0) with piston rings included. I measured the thicknesses of the piston rings with a calibrated micrometer. Here are the exact dimensions.
Upper piston ring: 1.50 mm
Middle piston ring: 1.75 mm
Lowest (oil) piston ring: 3.0 mm
The originals are really hard to find, but in search of replacement.

- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Since Bentley Continental GT race cars exist, they must have engine parts for them. I can't find any online but even race teams can't just throw a new engine in their car after every race.

I found these on eBay. I have no idea if they will work for a Phaeton W12. The auction says they are for the 3.2 engine:









ENGINE PISTON RING SET GOETZE ENGINE 08-137400-00 6PCS I STD FOR VW 3.2L | eBay


Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for ENGINE PISTON RING SET GOETZE ENGINE 08-137400-00 6PCS I STD FOR VW 3.2L at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



www.ebay.com





The same thing here. The seller _says _this piston will fit but that's not what the VW parts websites say:









2005-2013 Audi A3 Engine Piston 022107065AA | eBay


Part Number: 022107065AA. 2005-2013 Audi A3 Engine Piston w/Rings. See compatibility chart. Engine Piston w/Rings. We will do everything we can to get you the correct part. We'll be happy to get you the right part!



www.ebay.com


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## Hellgate (Dec 29, 2016)

I like how you think!


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Since Bentley Continental GT race cars exist, they must have engine parts for them. I can't find any online but even race teams can't just throw a new engine in their car after every race.
> 
> I found these on eBay. I have no idea if they will work for a Phaeton W12. The auction says they are for the 3.2 engine:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the tip 
3.2 (R32) engine parts are different from W12 6.0 engine parts. We now checked the pistons. They are different. The bore is 84 mm, but the thicknesses of the piston ring are different. Although they are available, I cannot use them.
I Still ask the eBay seller about the thinknesses of the piston rings.

- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> Thanks for the tip
> 3.2 (R32) engine parts are different from W12 6.0 engine parts. We now checked the pistons. They are different. The bore is 84 mm, but the thicknesses of the piston ring are different. Although they are available, I cannot use them.
> I Still ask the eBay seller about the thinknesses of the piston rings.
> 
> - Jussi


You're welcome.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I found brand new suitable piston rings. The dimensions match perfectly. They are from the BMW engine. I am now modifying another headlight. The picture shows a turn signal reflector to which I attach the LED strip.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I didn't get the car body parts from what they were originally supposed to get. I couldn't find a completely intact front bumper anywhere. Then I bought the whole car. I got it pretty cheap. I was surprised that it is front-wheel drive with V6 petrol engine. Now I think I can get all the parts I need.

- Jussi


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

You bought a 3.2 VR6 fwd Phaeton?

Is it a manual / stick?

If so, I’ve always toyed with the idea of converting my W12 to a stick shift. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PowerDubs said:


> You bought a 3.2 VR6 fwd Phaeton?
> 
> Is it a manual / stick?
> 
> ...


The P I bought has an automatic transmission. I also like manual gears I once bought brand new Volvo S60 R. The seller wondered why I wanted manual gears for it? I answered, only because I can to do it. The my friend had a similar R where the engine was tuned (+50 hp) but with automatic transmission. It was slower than my stock R  

- Jussi


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## mattsimis (Sep 19, 2005)

So just looking at getting back into a Phaeton after 12years... any links for the parts used for the lights in the original post? Really like the Audi style lights.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Does the VR6 Phaeton have parking sensors?
The bumper covers are different if you have parking sensors.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Does the VR6 Phaeton have parking sensors?
> The bumper covers are different if you have parking sensors.


Yes, the P I bought has parking sensors, headlight washers and fog lights.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

mattsimis said:


> So just looking at getting back into a Phaeton after 12years... any links for the parts used for the lights in the original post? Really like the Audi style lights.


The headlights that appear in the pictures I sent earlier are not for sale anywhere. I built/modifield them myself.
They were brand new when I started the job of strip down them. Yes, there are a lot of original used headlights on sale on eBay. The only problem with them is that the reflector of the Low beam is partially burned and is therefore low power. I check the condition of the spare cars parts and put them up for sale. Also headlights.

-Jussi


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## mattsimis (Sep 19, 2005)

Jussi12 said:


> The headlights that appear in the pictures I sent earlier are not for sale anywhere. I built/modifield them myself.
> They were brand new when I started the job of strip down them. Yes, there are a lot of original used headlights on sale on eBay. The only problem with them is that the reflector of the Low beam is partially burned and is therefore low power. I check the condition of the spare cars parts and put them up for sale. Also headlights.
> 
> -Jussi


Thanks but I was looking for tips on the LED strip itself not a full headlight. There are a lot of cheap audi style LED strips out there now!


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

mattsimis said:


> Thanks but I was looking for tips on the LED strip itself not a full headlight. There are a lot of cheap audi style LED strips out there now!


Ok 
Many kinds of led strips are on sale a lot (among other things eBay and Aliexpress) and they are not expensive.
The electrical connection is simple when you remember to install parallel resistors. Installation inside the headlights is quite tricky. An easy way is to make a hole in the "glass" of polycarbonate, or in fact on the side of it that is not visible on the outside. In this way The LED strip must not be attached to anything and the light is asymmetrical. A more difficult option is to remove the polycarbonate "glass". It does not succeed by heating because it is not glued the by butyl mass but to some hard adhesive mass. I did it in my way. I cut off the plastic edge of the headlights (polypropylene) completely (Dremel). I cut the original glue with a carpet knife and twisted the "glass" off the headlight body with a screwdriver. I had to use much power. Fortunately, polycarbonate is strong and tough
I removed all the original glue. Once the "glass" was removed I got to make all the necessary modifications to the headlights. After that, I glued the "glass" in place. To the bottom butyl mass for sealing, a few small screws to secure. On to top of a special glue that adheres to polycarbonate and polypropylene. Inside the headlights, I used glue that also adheres to silicone. The LED stripe was made of silicone. There were other steps in the job, but no more of them at this time.

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hello,

I always came up with new ideas. The ideas was to paint a suction set. Now I didn’t like the end result. See the pictures. Maybe the original is better, so the whole intake manofold with its ends was to be painted. Tell us your own opinion on whether the black flake painting in the picture is as tasteless as I think it is.

















- Jussi


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Looks really good to me


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## Chromelugs (Jul 1, 2020)

i do like a bit or wrinkle finish myself.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm not in favor of it. The silver makes the manifold really look good in the engine bay, with a dark color I think you would end up with an all black engine bay because of the black plastic covers on the W12 models. Just my 02 cents.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I'm not in favor of it. The silver makes the manifold really look good in the engine bay, with a dark color I think you would end up with an all black engine bay because of the black plastic covers on the W12 models. Just my 02 cents.


I'd like to powder coat mine silver.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I always came up with new ideas. The ideas was to paint a suction set. Now I didn’t like the end result. See the pictures. Maybe the original is better, so the whole intake manofold with its ends was to be painted. Tell us your own opinion on whether the black flake painting in the picture is as tasteless as I think it is
> 
> - Jussi


It doesn't look bad against a tan background but as Stephan mentioned, it would disappear against the black.

There are less specked black metallic paints that are stunning but maybe for another part.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Thanks for the opinions  

Yep, I think the original is better considering that the engine side panels are almost black. I leave the original or paint them with powder coating. If I have to paint, I choose another color. Maybe satin matte and shade close to silver and with much smaller metal particles.

-Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Isn't your Phaeton blue? Maybe silver with a blue tinge. Like VW Cosmos Silver but a tad lighter.

I was thinking the wheels would look good with just a hint of blue in the silver. I think it would make them look more silver. Like bluing in laundry makes whites look whiter.

EDIT: I see your Phaeton is dark green. Maybe a hint of green in the silver?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Isn't your Phaeton blue? Maybe silver with a blue tinge. Like VW Cosmos Silver but a tad lighter.
> 
> I was thinking the wheels would look good with just a hint of blue in the silver. I think it would make them look more silver. Like bluing in laundry makes whites look whiter.
> 
> EDIT: I see your Phaeton is dark green. Maybe a hint of green in the silver?


Yes. It is a dark green metallic color. The wheels came from the paint shop some time ago. Now they are powder coated with black metallic paint. I thought they would match almost any color, also if I changed the color of the car. The "diffuser" at the back of the car is now aluminum in color. I don't think the color fits the car. I paint it the same color as the current color of the car. I also considered painting it black. I leave the original color in the intake manifold. I gave up repairing the engine and ordered an engine that had only been driven just over 50000 km (about 31000 miles). That is almost like new. I got it last week. The exhaust manifold holes are quite cramped, so we resize them to the same size as the cylinder head exhaust holes. The exhaust pipes and silencer will be completely renewed (stainless steel) with Bentley's mufflers. They are equipped with vacuum controlled butterfly valves. The engine ECU can be reprogrammed after other changes have been made.
- Jussi


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## Juho (May 26, 2021)

Jussi12 said:


> *Phaeton's tailgate problems*
> 
> I have a little problem with Phaeton's tailgate.
> 
> ...


Hi Jussi!

I'll go with english so everyone can understand, if there's something crucial to be learned here.

What sort of wire did you use (mainly sizewise) and how has it been working, no issues? Everything fits well back inside the plastic housing bolted to the tailgate?
This is a project I'd like to tackle in the next few days myself and I'd like to hear where you got the wires from, if they were from somewhere other than Motonet/the usual places here in Finland?

-Juho


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Juho said:


> Hi Jussi!
> 
> I'll go with english so everyone can understand, if there's something crucial to be learned here.
> 
> ...


Hi Juho,
The thicknesses of the cords do not have to be exactly the same thickness as the original ones. But no thinner than the original cords thinner should be used, almost at all. See how thick the copper wires are under the insulation and select the cores based on it. The wires I used were 0,5mm², 0.75mm², 1.5mm² and 2.5mm². I don't remember if there were even thicker wires, but the next thickness is 4.0 mm². I don’t remember using such a thick wire, and I don’t see a need for it. Replace one wire at a time to avoid false connections.
The best cord would be a very fine stranded cord. It is more resistant to continuous bending It may not be found in all stores. Especially in shops selling electrical accessories, you should find these.
The cords I used were intended for 230 volt installations (mains voltage in Finland), but work well for 12 volt installations. If you can't find this very fine-stranded cord, even a regular fine-stranded cord will work. You can spray a little Teflon oil into the box where the cords move. It reduces friction and the cords move better. I made the wire connections by tinning. Joints where the cords do not move much. Some do not recommend connecting wires to the car by tin jointing. Because if the wires are constantly bent, it may break at the connection point. That is, from the point where tinning ends. When the joints are in places where there is little continuous movement of the wires, no problems should arise. It is advisable to stiffen the joint point with longer shrink tube than tin joint. The shrink tubing should be about 5 mm longer than the tin joint at both ends. Use a shrink tubing with glue inside. It protects the joint from moisture and strengthens the cable joint at the point where tinning ends. Good luck for your job.

- Jussi


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## Juho (May 26, 2021)

Jussi12 said:


> Hi Juho,
> The thicknesses of the cords do not have to be exactly the same thickness as the original ones. But no thinner than the original cords thinner should be used, almost at all. See how thick the copper wires are under the insulation and select the cores based on it. The wires I used were 0,5mm², 0.75mm², 1.5mm² and 2.5mm². I don't remember if there were even thicker wires, but the next thickness is 4.0 mm². I don’t remember using such a thick wire, and I don’t see a need for it. Replace one wire at a time to avoid false connections.
> The best cord would be a very fine stranded cord. It is more resistant to continuous bending It may not be found in all stores. Especially in shops selling electrical accessories, you should find these.
> The cords I used were intended for 230 volt installations (mains voltage in Finland), but work well for 12 volt installations. If you can't find this very fine-stranded cord, even a regular fine-stranded cord will work. You can spray a little Teflon oil into the box where the cords move. It reduces friction and the cords move better. I made the wire connections by tinning. Joints where the cords do not move much. Some do not recommend connecting wires to the car by tin jointing. Because if the wires are constantly bent, it may break at the connection point. That is, from the point where tinning ends. When the joints are in places where there is little continuous movement of the wires, no problems should arise. It is advisable to stiffen the joint point with longer shrink tube than tin joint. The shrink tubing should be about 5 mm longer than the tin joint at both ends. Use a shrink tubing with glue inside. It protects the joint from moisture and strengthens the cable joint at the point where tinning ends. Good luck for your job.
> ...


Thanks for the details Jussi! I've been trying to source some healthy wires from other VW's wiring looms but haven't had luck yet. This mainly just because I've been afraid of the sizes and the overall fit back into the plastic case and having room to move around.. But after your instructions I'm feeling much more confident in using more "mainstream" cords, I'll have a look into the cords used in 230 volt installations first


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Juho said:


> Thanks for the details Jussi! I've been trying to source some healthy wires from other VW's wiring looms but haven't had luck yet. This mainly just because I've been afraid of the sizes and the overall fit back into the plastic case and having room to move around.. But after your instructions I'm feeling much more confident in using more "mainstream" cords, I'll have a look into the cords used in 230 volt installations first


Nice if my details are helpful, here are a few more tips  
I do not recommend taking wires from old car wiring harnesses because plastic insulation can harden with age. The insulation of the wires breaks easily when they are bending repeatedly. Wires with silicone insulation with a very fine-stranded wire are the most resistant to bending. Still, I would not use silicone insulated wires. Silicon is highly resistant to heat and bending, but is otherwise weaker to other mechanical stress. Well, maybe my worries are futile. Thicker wires than the original should not be used. That plastic box is really cramped. The wires should be placed in the tightest possible bundle and so that they are all in direct line with each other before placing them in a plastic box. A good selection of 230 V cables is available. They are easy to find a suitable cord. One option is to purchase a multipole cable. For example, 12x0.75mm² cable. The wires can then be disconnected from the cable.
- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> I found brand new suitable piston rings. The dimensions match perfectly. They are from the BMW engine.


it looks like somebody is making new pistons and rings for the Phaeton W12 now:









Pistons&Rings Assembly Fit For VW Phaeton 6.0L 07C107065DA BAP | eBay


07C107065DA，07C107066DA，07C198151C. 6.0L Engine Code: BAP. ENGINE CODES; (BAN,BAP，AZC). RINGS DETAILS. PRICE FOR 12 CYLINDERS ONLY. #Criteria#. Oil ring(84.00 3.0 mm).



www.ebay.com





If you don't mind, what BMW piston rings did you use? 

-Eric


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> it looks like somebody is making new pistons and rings for the Phaeton W12 now:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hi,
I haven’t gotten to do just about anything for the car when the car is standing on the crane and I’ve been looking for parts. Now the car has been replaced with a "new" engine. Engine has only driven just over 50,000 km. The engine has already been running. Now we build the exhaust system from stainless steel with Bentley mufflers. They are stainles steel too. The piston rings and other parts were now left unused. The car should get to the paint shop next week.​









- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,
Now the new ZAP would be ready to install. When I get the car from the paint shop, it should be installed. All the original functions of the car are retained. The new ZAP has a touch screen. The operating system is Android with its many features. Switching between the car's original system and Android takes place via the symbol on the touch screen.
Android has a front camera, reversing camera, navigation, etc.






- Jussi


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## Phat One (Jul 10, 2009)

Jussi12 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Now the new ZAP would be ready to install. When I get the car from the paint shop, it should be installed. All the original functions of the car are retained. The new ZAP has a touch screen. The operating system is Android with its many features. Switching between the car's original system and Android takes place via the symbol on the touch screen.
> 
> ...


I hope you can post instructions, this would be very interesting for a lot of people here.
Thanks
Graham


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Jussi12 said:


> Now the new ZAP would be ready to install. When I get the car from the paint shop, it should be installed. All the original functions of the car are retained. The new ZAP has a touch screen. The operating system is Android with its many features. Switching between the car's original system and Android takes place via the symbol on the touch screen.
> 
> - Jussi


Is this the ZAB conversion from Jarek at www.androidphaeton.pl ? Looks really good, can't wait to see it installed.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Is this the ZAB conversion from Jarek at www.androidphaeton.pl ? Looks really good, can't wait to see it installed.


You are right  It's Jarek ZAP conversion. However, the CD changer is not removed now. And everything else the original should work.​- Jussi​


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

I've been emailing with Jarek recently but haven't pulled the trigger yet. It certainly looks like a professional conversion but with shipping both ways (to the US) it adds quiet a bit of cost. 

It looks like the dashcam is nice and small which I prefer. Does it save the footage on a card like a regular dashcam or in the ZAB?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

If you mean the front camera, then the camera has its own memory card and that footage is stored there​.
- Jussi


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Jussi12 said:


> If you mean the front camera, then the camera has its own memory card and that footage is stored there.


Yes, I meant the front camera. So it's just a regular dashcam but wired up to the ZAB so it can display the video feed I assume.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

The camera is quite small and nice looking. Mounting on the upper edge of the windscreen next to the rearview mirror. It save a video on a memory card. The camera is connected with a cable to the ZAP. Now ZAP has a better resolution screen (touch screen) than the original have.

- Jussi


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Thanks!


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

I have a Jarek system as well and am quite happy with it. I didn't like the rear view camera, so I've installed one that looks less.. Chinesium. I've integrated the carkit microphone in the dummy speaker for the right hand drive versions. Works reasonable and looks completely stock. I know that that is the look you're going for ^.^


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Melvivio said:


> I have a Jarek system as well and am quite happy with it. I didn't like the rear view camera, so I've installed one that looks less.. Chinesium. I've integrated the carkit microphone in the dummy speaker for the right hand drive versions. Works reasonable and looks completely stock. I know that that is the look you're going for ^.^


Thanks for the feedback on the ZAB conversion. Curious on where you ran the wiring for the backup (rear view) camera and what camera you are using now?


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## Melvivio (Feb 12, 2017)

Ok, I'll have to do a write up eventually.. I've used a Parkvision camera which should be available from scamazon ~$40,-









It can be mounted nicely in center of the rear fascia and looks not not original. Lets not forget that the OEM rear facing camera was also an after thought. I especially did not want one of thos LED camera's as it would mess up the look of the Phaeton at night. The old lights are how it should be.










Picture is clear and can be adjusted upwards via software to display what is behind and not just the road.










Here an example of streaming video, Top Gear.











The power "on signal" is leeched from the reverse lights and do not cause any issues. The loom was tricky, removal of the 2nd row seat, and I've run it via the right hand side sill cover trims. 
The loom gains access to the vehicle via a flap in the spare wheel area. Can be installed without(!) removing the rear bumper. A small hole is made to fixate it.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

That's a very clean install, thanks for sharing. It's a huge advantage being able to install that camera without having to remove the rear bumper cover!


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I haven't been to this site in a long time. ZAP Android is not yet to be installed. The original is still in place. The reversing camera, it could indeed be in the middle between the license plate lights. I need to consider this option. If all 4 license plate lights be similar, light is steady. There is LED-bulb in the camera, but it is not so bright. The bumper is still removed (because of the painting), So I can still choice.
Thanks for the tip Melvivio!


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## Robert.Vangeenen (Sep 29, 2005)

Melvivio said:


> Here an example of streaming video, Top Gear.
> 
> View attachment 115073


At first I hadn't read the caption of this being a still from Top Gear. I thought you almost backed over Rod Stewart! 😁 😁 

But on a serious note, thanks for the tip. I went ahead and ordered the camera you suggested. Since the interior is stripped it'll hopefully be a breeze to do the wiring back to front.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I will install the loom from above under the edge of the roof liner. The route is the same where I installed the loom of heated windshield. The controler for the heated windscreen are in the trunk behind the side trim. I think its the easiest route.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,
3 months since last post. Some problems. I'll tell you more about them later. Now I got my car back and I can continue fixing. Here is one picture of the front of the car and what it looks like now.
In addition, the picture of the original W12 in Phaeton, so can be compared. Of course, the version I modifield looks better to me, but someone may disagree. Now let’s judge freely, I won’t get in a bad mood about it. The bonnet still needs to be adjusted a bit. There is one crack in the bumper caused by the car paint shop / workshop. Not shown in this image. But it needs to be fixed. The front parking sensors do not work for the same reason. So the bumper still needs to be removed.
More posts are coming soon, as long as I have time

















- Jussi


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## Robert.Vangeenen (Sep 29, 2005)

It's your car, so you can do to the optics how you please. 😊 I think OEM did a very good job and personally feel no need to augment or alter that. I did see a W12 for sale here in the NL some time back that had subtle W12 (I believe Audi) badges on the sides. And to be honest I did replace the hood lever with a Bentley one, but apart from that I'm happy with the looks. My bumper has to come off too some time for the same reason. One of the PDC sensors indicates a failure. My guess is that it's a wiring issue and not necessarily the sensor, but I've ordered a cable loom including the sensors for a very reasonable price so I'm sure I'll be able to fix that.

- Robert


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Robert.Vangeenen said:


> It's your car, so you can do to the optics how you please. 😊 I think OEM did a very good job and personally feel no need to augment or alter that. I did see a W12 for sale here in the NL some time back that had subtle W12 (I believe Audi) badges on the sides. And to be honest I did replace the hood lever with a Bentley one, but apart from that I'm happy with the looks. My bumper has to come off too some time for the same reason. One of the PDC sensors indicates a failure. My guess is that it's a wiring issue and not necessarily the sensor, but I've ordered a cable loom including the sensors for a very reasonable price so I'm sure I'll be able to fix that.
> 
> - Robert


Right, This is how we all have our own preferences.
If someone are happy with own choices, that is the most important thing. I also don’t want to criticize the choices of others.
However, it’s nice to hear the opinions of others about things I’ve done myself. Well, if I’m being honest, then positive and encouraging feedback will please me more. If anyone disagrees, let it be given to him. It doesn't bother me. I’m going to continue with the same pattern, i.e. I do stuff that feels good to me
- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

What happened at login? New profile. I was now able to log in to my own profile. Can those previous ones will be deleted somehow?

- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Jussi12 said:


> What happened at login? New profile. I was now able to log in to my own profile. Can those previous ones will be deleted somehow?
> 
> - Jussi


The administrator corrected my error when I requested a fix. Another profile I accidentally created has been deleted.
Many thanks to the administrator😃
- Jussi


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## PhaetonVEE8 (Nov 4, 2021)

The car looks great! Can we have some details on how you made your front grill?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

PhaetonVEE8 said:


> The car looks great! Can we have some details on how you made your front grill?


Here's a link to a few pictures how I do it.
Photos from the Phaeton project | Page 5 |
The pictures show roughly how they were made. Everything but the frame edge has been cut out of the grille. The honeycomb is hollow. It is thus a fairly thin plastic and bends well to the shapes of the grille frame. The edges of the grille frame had to be slightly shaped so that the honeycomb cut into shape went in place. Once the honeycomb was fastened to the edges of the grille, I filled the hollow areas on the back of the cell with 2-component plastic mass, so it become a rigid structure. The edges of the grille are painted.
- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Hi,
Quite an ordinary story. Left battery replaced once again. New one is already be the 4th or 5th battery on the left side. Me and many others have written quite a bit about battery issues left in the past. No more now. I didn’t remember it being such a tricky job. Some parts had to be removed above the battery and there was still really little space. The car was in the upholstery, paint shop, etc. for a long time. No one cared about recharging the batteries (especially left battery). The starter battery is still in good condition even though it has not been charged. Well, now left side battery has been replaced with a new 95Ah Vartan Silver Dynamic AGM battery (EN 900A). The old Fiamm AGM battery voltages seemed to be ok. The voltage of old battery was 12.7 V. Based on this, the battery voltage measurement does not tell if it is OK. But EN was only about 200 A, when it should have been at least 900 A. More accurate measurement of the condition of the battery would have been obtained with a meter, where there would have been load resistor. But if the meter I use shows EN at 200 A, it's quite clear that the battery is dead even though it had been in the Cetek charger for several days.
A few pictures of battery replacement and measurements.
















- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

It has been more than a year since the crash. This means that not everything went with ease.
When viewed from behind, the car looks almost ready. It is not possible to see the true color of the car in the pictures. The color always changes according to the lighting conditions.
The rear bumper and taillights, etc., were installed only recently. The front bumper is now in the car paint shop. I'll get it back next week and start installing it in place. To get a car to drive, there is not very much work to do. Even if I get the car to drive, there’s something else to fix. When I get something interesting done post them here.
















- Jussi


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## Nasser_SA (Nov 25, 2019)

Hi Jussi, the colour looks stunning, and mate how can I get a chrome mirror covers like yours please ?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Nasser_SA said:


> Hi Jussi, the colour looks stunning, and mate how can I get a chrome mirror covers like yours please ?


HI,
In nature, mirror covers look aluminum rather than chrome-plated. I painted them myself. I used professional specialty paint (Glasurit). Painting is not possible with spray bottle paint. Needed spray gun. I know there are spray bottle paints on sale that should get a similar aluminum colored surface. They are also based on multi-layer technology. I've tried them. The end result was poor.
The painting has 3 layers. 1st leyer of paint is black. 2nd layer of aluminum paint (almost pure aluminum). 3rd leyer is clear lacquer.
But…I'm not sure if I'll repaint them. I could paint the covers black. I have yet to think  
- Jussi


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## Nasser_SA (Nov 25, 2019)

Thanks Jussi for your soft response, sure I will do them as my Phaeton in pure black colour


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

The pictures show some of the latest modification. There are probably opinions for and against, but I like them as well as previous. The car's roof is painted black. The "diffuser" on the back was previously aluminum-colored. It bothered me a little. However, I wanted to keep it. Now it’s black and now I think it fits well in the car. The picture of the bow was taken before the installation of the fog lights. However, it shows DRLs on. The side mirror covers and the moldings on the side windows are aluminum-colored. It may be that either or both get a black color. The image taken with the phone's camera shows a blue color around the DRL. In reality, they don’t look blue. A reversing camera is displayed above the license plate.
Let’s see if I can get up to speed on this work. The goal is to get the car driven for the summer 
























- Jussi


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## Nasser_SA (Nov 25, 2019)

I like the angry and prestige look of the face ,


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

As always Jussi, you're doing a good job.
Have you got any outside help after the crash?
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## Nasser_SA (Nov 25, 2019)

Hi Jussi hi guys,
Jussi how much the complete bumper cost you is it expensive ?


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

gwiken65 said:


> As always Jussi, you're doing a good job.
> Have you got any outside help after the crash?
> Wiken
> 
> Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


Hi Wiken,
The car was completely repainted. I have no experience with such a large painting. I don't have any equipment, such as a painting chamber etc. Well, I painted the smaller parts of the car myself.
The repairs on the bumpers and other parts I did myself. Almost all parts I reassembled myself. Although it was initially agreed that the paint shop would do some of the reassembly work, well it went badly wrong, as I have previously written here in the forum. Replacing the engine was also a big job. It needed a crane. I don’t have one, so this job was done in a repair shop. But…all sorts of works have been lot that I've done myself.
I put the license plate in place yesterday. In the picture, it seems to be skewed. But it's not a millimeter skewed 








- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Nasser_SA said:


> Hi Jussi hi guys,
> Jussi how much the complete bumper cost you is it expensive ?


Hi Nasser,
I bought front-wheel drive V6 petrol Phaeton with automatic transmission as a spare parts. The car cost less than 2000 euros. I got the bumper cover, hood, fender, etc. from the car I bought. I thought the new front bumper cover was no longer available. Even when used, I didn't find any decent ones. However, new bumper cover are apparently still available? The price is probably about 1000 euros, just the bumper cover, without chrome moldings, etc. I only bought the car based on the pictures. When I get the car I noticed that there was damage to the bumper cover. I had to fix many points before I could get it in the condition that it could be painted. Well, there were all kinds of problems. I've written about them before. At the end, buying a spare car became cheaper for me than buying just parts separately. The spare part car still has a lot of usable parts. V6 petron engine, transmission, etc. The inspection of the car was valid and fully roadworthy. The car is still driven condition. I will probably try to sell parts from that car if I can just find buyers. But more importantly, get my own car driving again 
- Jussi


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

The front bumper cover is still available new from VW, I just received mine last week (bought it as a spare) but it had to come straight from Germany. Production date on the label shows late last year.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Phaetonlvr said:


> The front bumper cover is still available new from VW, I just received mine last week (bought it as a spare) but it had to come straight from Germany. Production date on the label shows late last year.


Ok, just over a month ago, the front bumper cover had been available to order. So I wasn't 100% sure if it was available anymore. But, so it is still available. Was that my price estimate even close to correct (about 1000 euros)?
Btw...I have a heated windshield that I installed before the crash. So it's like a brand new. But ... one blow by a stone and it is broken. These glasses are thin and break easily, even though they have multiple layers, or maybe that’s why. I wonder how long these heated windshields will still be available? Would I buy one and put it in storage? But 2500 euros feels too expensive. If I could get it cheaper somewhere, then I could buy. It may be that someday in the future I will curse what I decide today
- Jussi


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

When I ordered the front bumper cover about a month ago VW had a "one day only 20% off online sales" so instead of ordering from my usual online dealer, I decided to order it from my local dealership to avoid the shipping costs (the box is huge!). It was around $800 w/ tax.

Not sure about the windshield but I assume the same windshield was used up to the last model years and I assume that means it should be available for a few more years.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Ok, the price of the front bumper cover seems reasonable, even cheap. All parts at a Finnish VW dealer are expensive in my opinion. I bought one new headlight for the VW dealer without ballasts and it cost over 1000 euros.

For the windshield availability yet. I think windshield should be available for a few years. But are all types of windshields available as long? I have a windshield with an IR membrane (it seems to be in all?), heating for the windshield wipers, and a transparent heating membrane over the entire glass area. A transparent heating membrane is less common and perhaps that is why glass is expensive. Purchased from Finland for about 2,500 euros (without installation). If I needed a new similar glass in a few years, I am afraid it would not be available at all. Without the heating film, I might be able to get one. I have glass insurance that pays for broken glass, but of course they don’t pay for new glass now when there’s nothing wrong with the car glass. Well, 2,500 euros is a lot of money for me to keep just in storage. At least I’m not ready for that now, let’s see if I change my mind.
- Jussi
PS. I'm doing a ceramic coating on the paint surface. I started yesterday and will continue today.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I started installing a vacuum-controlled mufflers exhaust flap system today.
The front and end of the vacuum line are reinforced rubber hoses. I installed several fasteners to keep the hose in place. The bottom of the car also had ready-made fasteners for the hose/pipe that were not in use. I installed the brake pipe (Cu/Zn) on the brackets on the bottom. Also works well as a vacuum pipe. At the rear of the car, a vacuum pipe is split into two vacuum actuators that control both muffler's flaps. When the car starts, there is no vacuum yet. from mufflers hear a deep roar sound. Pretty quickly the vacuum pulls the flaps closed and the sound subsides. Still, the sounds sound great. The flaps can be opened with the remote control if necessary.

























- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

If I remember correctly, you used the Bentley mufflers.

I have been thinking about these for a few years but I am not sure of the size: 

Volkswagen Phaeton 4 Motion W12 Exhaust Universal - 020923ECS02 - Build-Your-Own Universal Vacuum-Actuated Exhaust Cutout Kit - Dual Cutouts (ecstuning.com)

I am waiting to pull my rear mufflers off to check the pipe size. 

-Eric


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> If I remember correctly, you used the Bentley mufflers.
> 
> I have been thinking about these for a few years but I am not sure of the size:
> 
> ...


Yes, I have Bentley Continental GT mufflers. They fit directly in place of the originals. I think you could find good condition used. Mine was cheap. They are something stainless steel alloy. Bentley mufflers have a little bigger size pipes, so you have to use some kind of adapter in the pipes joint if you change only mufflers. I have all the exhaust pipes, mufflers, and an X-piece in stainless steel. All the pipeline is now larger in diameter.
- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> If I remember correctly, you used the Bentley mufflers.
> I have been thinking about these for a few years but I am not sure of the size:
> Volkswagen Phaeton 4 Motion W12 Exhaust Universal - 020923ECS02 - Build-Your-Own Universal Vacuum-Actuated Exhaust Cutout Kit - Dual Cutouts (ecstuning.com)
> I am waiting to pull my rear mufflers off to check the pipe size.
> -Eric


Is the "ESC Tunning Vacuum-Actuated Exhaust Cutout Kit" installed in front of the muffler?
Then it blows the exhaust gas under the car. Well, does it matter? The mufflers of the Bentley Continental GT were just so easy to install and all the exhaust gas comes out from the back of the car.
- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I decided to replace all the suspension arms and joints of the car. A few parts are missing from the picture below. I'll change them too. 3D0 511 407 B, rear anti-roll bar 20mm (too much corrosion) and 3D0 501 529, track rod. At the same time, I do a little rust protection on the bottom of the car. Pretty much work to do.








- Jussi


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Nice, I see you are also planning a rear suspension rebuild. I've never had to do that one mine, seems like the rear bushings are much less stressed than the front ones. 

The two black bushings in the middle, are those for the front sway bar?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> Is the "ESC Tunning Vacuum-Actuated Exhaust Cutout Kit" installed in front of the muffler?
> Then it blows the exhaust gas under the car. Well, does it matter? The mufflers of the Bentley Continental GT were just so easy to install and all the exhaust gas comes out from the back of the car.
> - Jussi


They are do-it-yourself parts. Before the mufflers is where they would go. Hot rodders generally put pipes out to the side when they install cutouts. It's what I would do also because of CO and fire danger. 

Bentley mufflers would be preferred if they are true cutouts.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I also have suspension questions.

Did you buy the suspension arms all in one kit or collect them separately? 

I need one different upper control arm for the front struts. I have one TRW upper arm for each side but one is shorter than the other. I won't know which is correct until I take it apart. 

I would also like to redo the rear suspension. I see you have a bunch of bushings. Are some of them for the rear differential bracket?


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I need one different upper control arm for the front struts. I have one TRW upper arm for each side but one is shorter than the other. I won't know which is correct until I take it apart.


Here are the TRW part numbers for the upper front suspension CAs:
LH Forward: TRW Part # JTC1136
RH Forward: TRW Part # JTC1137
LH Rearward: TRW Part # JTC1138
RH Rearward: TRW Part # JTC1139

You can compare the CAs against online photos to figure out which one is correct.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Nice, I see you are also planning a rear suspension rebuild. I've never had to do that one mine, seems like the rear bushings are much less stressed than the front ones.
> The two black bushings in the middle, are those for the front sway bar?


Yes, those are for the front sway bar (front anti-roll bar).
- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I also have suspension questions.
> Did you buy the suspension arms all in one kit or collect them separately?
> I need one different upper control arm for the front struts. I have one TRW upper arm for each side but one is shorter than the other. I won't know which is correct until I take it apart.
> I would also like to redo the rear suspension. I see you have a bunch of bushings. Are some of them for the rear differential bracket?


Some of them were in the kit and some were separate. I search for parts from several stores and places.
At the bottom right, the 2 big ones are from the rear differential bracket.
- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

I haven't measured everyone. Hopefully, there will be no nasty surprises.
- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Here are the TRW part numbers for the upper front suspension CAs:
> LH Forward: TRW Part # JTC1136
> RH Forward: TRW Part # JTC1137
> LH Rearward: TRW Part # JTC1138
> ...


Thanks, Stephan.

I bought this upper set in Jan:

Pair Set 2 Front Upper Forward Control Arms & Ball Joints TRW For A6 A8 Quattro | eBay. The eBay auction says it's TRW but I have a set of Lemforder control arms. I think it's this set but my short-term memory is spotty.

And my short-term memory is spotty.

I have a JCT1138. I need a JTC1139. I'll have to check eBay again.

I have an extra JCT1137. I think I was comparing it against the JCT1138 and thinking I had a mis-matched pair.

When I was ordering them I couldn't find them all and JCT1139 is not in my stash.

I have all of the bottom ones. I have most of the hardware but VWOA says some is NLA. I found some of the NLA hardware on eBay from Nick in Greece (NK Automotive).

NK AUTOMOTIVE-USA | eBay Stores
or
NK AUTOMOTIVE | eBay Stores

(I think that's his ROW store because it now says "This store has no inventory available in your location".)

He also has his own store:

VW Classic Parts & Accessories - NK AUTOMOTIVE


-Eric


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Eric,

looks like the TRW parts are currently all backordered. I usually buy those at FCP Euro or on Amazon. For new parts I prefer reputable official resellers of those brands. 

I've also used Meyle control arms on one of the rebuilds, those are also good quality and I think FCP Euro has those in stock.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Phaetonlvr said:


> Eric,
> 
> looks like the TRW parts are currently all backordered. I usually buy those at FCP Euro or on Amazon. For new parts I prefer reputable official resellers of those brands.
> 
> I've also used Meyle control arms on one of the rebuilds, those are also good quality and I think FCP Euro has those in stock.


Thanks, I made an offer on a JCT1139 on eBay. They accepted the offer and I just paid.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

As I worked under the car, I noticed the rear subframe looking ugly. It had rust. It was taken out and taken to the sandblasting. Fortunately, it was just surface rust. In the picture, I start painting. First, paint it with a 2-component acid primer. On top of that, I will paint with 2-component epoxy paint, 2 layers. The epoxy paint I use is approved for use in underwater structures. I think the rear subframe won't rust "ever" after painting. Not at least in my lifetime. Yes, my car has a steel subframe. In later models it is aluminum.








- Jussi


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Jussi12 said:


> As I worked under the car, I noticed the rear subframe looking ugly. It had rust. It was taken out and taken to the sandblasting. Fortunately, it was just surface rust. In the picture, I start painting. First, paint it with a 2-component acid primer. On top of that, I will paint with 2-component epoxy paint, 2 layers. The epoxy paint I use is approved for use in underwater structures. I think the rear subframe won't rust "ever" after painting. Not at least in my lifetime. Yes, my car has a steel subframe. In later models it is aluminum.
> View attachment 198763
> 
> - Jussi


If I recall the front subframe bushings are not replaceable if you have an aluminum subframe but are on the steel subframe. It's probably the same on the rear. I was watching a Bentley Continental front steel subframe on eBay just so I could have one with replaceable bushings (and replace them).

Count yourself lucky you got steel. Is there any reason you didn't get it powdercoated?

Are used steel suspension parts subject to hydrogen embrittlement if you powder coat them?

That's the reason you aren't supposed to chrome used suspension parts. I don't know if powdercoating also weakens suspension parts.


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> If I recall the front subframe bushings are not replaceable if you have an aluminum subframe but are on the steel subframe. It's probably the same on the rear. I was watching a Bentley Continental front steel subframe on eBay just so I could have one with replaceable bushings (and replace them).
> Count yourself lucky you got steel. Is there any reason you didn't get it powdercoated?
> Are used steel suspension parts subject to hydrogen embrittlement if you powder coat them?
> That's the reason you aren't supposed to chrome used suspension parts. I don't know if powdercoating also weakens suspension parts.


Right, aluminium subframe bushings are not replaceable.
I don't think the powder coating would have weakened the steel of the subframe. Powder coating gives a smooth and fine surface. I have powder coated several sets of rims. They have turned out great. It is not very important to get a nice surface on the subframe. It is more important to get good corrosion protection. Now I won't start to justify this any more, but I believe that with the methods and paints I use, I can get a better corrosion protection.
- Jussi


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## Jussi12 (Nov 30, 2007)

Greetings from a long time 
The roadworthiness test is done couple days ago. Marked "APPROVED" nothing to note.
The wheel alignments will be made next monday. After that, hard driving…
One small protective cover is missing, over the plus and minus terminals. I'll try to get one somewhere.
The original intake manifold bolts are Al Mg alloy. The new ones are made of stainless steel. The dimensions is rare (if I remember correctly, M7x1.0), so I couldn't find ready-made ones anywhere. The bolts are custom made. The tightening torque had to be calculated and partially evaluated. I ended up with a tightening torque of 14Nm.
Support arms, joints, bushings, sway bar, etc. Everything possible has been renewed. Now wheel alignments is completely wrong. The tires would wear out quickly if I drove the car a little more now. So I have to wait a few more days before I can cruise on P.
Bentley:n mufflers vacuum controlled flaps work well with remote controller. I added a backflow prevention valve to the vacuum line because the pressure in the intake manifold varies. I already understood during the installation that it was needed. I'm now convinced that it's good that I can muffle the exhaust sounds if necessary.
Someone would think that P is now finished. Well, a little bit of dirt is visible if you look closely (Edited, I changed the picture and compared to the previous one I made some small fixes).
Yes, I still have things I want to do. More about them later 


















- Jussi


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