# 2.5L Timing chain reliability BGP to CBT 2.5 L



## VWCorrado93 (Aug 7, 2020)

Quick question looking for experienced opinions. I have a 2005.5 Jetta, 5sp manual that I rescued. It has a 2.5L BGP engine that jumped time and is broken. I was able to purchase a CBT engine from a 2012 Jetta that was totaled in a rear end collision. I don't know the mileage on the new engine but pulled the valve cover and plugs and all turns smoothly by hand. The valve train looks good from above and I will do a compression check before installing.

I just watched these guys- 




According to these vw experts, the timing chain issues are fixed on the CBT engine and the timing set should outlast the engine. If the new engine passes the compression check, I'm thinking about installing it as-is and not even looking at the timing components. This is 2021 and I'm fixing a 2005 vehicle and if the consensus (as in the video above) is that timing chain issues are no longer a problem, I'll save lots of time and money installing as is.

I'm still seeing stuff like this- 2012 Volkswagen Passat Used Auto Parts | Huntsville
I know this may be a bad transmission or something else but wonder if it's still a timing chain issue? I see so many good looking cars at the junkyard with 2.5 L engines.


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## maxeymum (Apr 1, 2019)

There are many of the 2.5s with the updated motor/revised timing set running around with 100k+ miles, and I anecdotally know of a handful with well over 200k miles. I personally have a 2010 Golf 2.5 with 130k miles and the motor still runs extremely strong at those miles. Anyways, like anything else, there is always an exception to the rule, but I suspect if there has been any timing chain issues with any 2008+ 2.5 it would be due to poor maintenance, too long oil change intervals and use of cheap oils.


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## jethead102 (Oct 4, 2014)

08+ essentially eiliminated the timing issues seen 05-07, my 08 had 238k on it when totaled, my 09 has 173k. No issues whatsoever (and I didn't even run vw approved oil!)

Based on your description, I'd run that engine with no reservations


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## VWCorrado93 (Aug 7, 2020)

Thank you for your replies. I'm feeling better about installing the engine as-is. I'm kind of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure subscriber. I bought this car broken and had it in the garage for over a year. I'm looking forward to getting on the road!


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## JaxPlanet (Sep 17, 2018)

IMHO: The biggest threat to the timing chains and guides is VW's ridiculous 10,000 mile motor oil change interval. It's like they are intentionally trying to kill their most reliable engine.

You don't have the mileage or the service history on the replacement engine so there is no way to anticipate the condition of the chains/guides. I don't think it would be wise to assume that the previous owner cared as much for their car as the members of this forum care for their cars. I would assume they did not, followed VW's interval, and may have missed a few changes.

Given the cost and effort of another engine destroyed by a jumped chain and lack of history on the replacement engine, I'm on the side of inspecting it on a stand and replacing what is needed now.

I would also delete the vacuum pump while its on the stand.

Good luck! I hope whatever you choose, its on the road for a long time


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## maxeymum (Apr 1, 2019)

JaxPlanet said:


> IMHO: The biggest threat to the timing chains and guides is VW's ridiculous 10,000 mile motor oil change interval. It's like they are intentionally trying to kill their most reliable engine.


Probably not as big a concern on the 2.5 as it is on the turbos. I bought my 2.5 Golf a month ago; the carfax showed 10k oil change intervals, but PO did say that he always used synthetic -- not sure if it was a VW approved synth. or not. Car now has 130k miles on it, and has used only a negligible amount of oil in the 2k miles I've driven it, maybe an ounce or two. Motor is whisper quiet at idle, pulls strongly and I have no concerns about its longevity going forward.

I believe the OP is going to go from a pre-'08 2.5, which were known for timing chain issues, to the updated, improved motor. Any used motor is a crapshoot I suppose, but if the one he's looking at has had any decent care, it'll probably be alright.


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## rjm_vw (Jun 12, 2009)

I buy engines from a junk yard, throw them in the car untouched, and race them for up to 14hrs at a time in ChampCar. I rev them to 7400 and the only failure I ever have is tossing the AC belt which stops the water pump and then the engine overheats, a lot. Particularly if the driver isn't paying attention to the gauges! Never had an issue with the chains at all, none. I fixed the belt tossing with a boost brothers tensioner pulley that has a lip on it to keep the belt in place. Since then, these motors are rock solid.


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## VWCorrado93 (Aug 7, 2020)

Please don't forget to vote in the poll above. I'd like to get as many responses as we can to have a definitive answer for all.


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## WtErKeWlEdUbbEr (Jun 20, 2005)

JaxPlanet said:


> IMHO: The biggest threat to the timing chains and guides is VW's ridiculous 10,000 mile motor oil change interval. It's like they are intentionally trying to kill their most reliable engine.
> 
> You don't have the mileage or the service history on the replacement engine so there is no way to anticipate the condition of the chains/guides. I don't think it would be wise to assume that the previous owner cared as much for their car as the members of this forum care for their cars. I would assume they did not, followed VW's interval, and may have missed a few changes.
> 
> ...


I don’t know about that. The oil is pretty good VW 502, there’s a cartridge filter, 6.4 quarts and it’s not direct injection or turbo. The oiling system is over built on this motor and the motor is easy on oil. 

I change mine at 10k like VW recommends and when the chain goes I will let you all know. 06 BGP here. I guess I’m a gambler. 

I’ll tell you what though, when I change the oil it doesn’t even look that old. It’s golden brown instead of black like my wife’s oil at 5k with direct injection and 4.5 qts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boomer Guy (Mar 26, 2021)

I always change the oil and filter in all of my vehicles at 5K mile intervals because it is cheap insurance. My Honda cars have VTEC which MUST have clean oil to operate properly. I recommend you use your favorite VW 502 00 spec motor oil with an OEM Mann oil filter and change them at 5K miles. 

My 2008 Rabbit with the 2.5 CBTA engine has 153K miles so far and I can barely hear it idle. There are no mechanical sounds from the engine at all that would sound like chain, valves, etc. 

I deleted my vacuum pump several thousand miles ago and I now have no leaks and I do have peace of mind. My pedal is still rock hard and the stopping distance is the same as before the change. There are different kits out there and I went the cheapest and easiest route by following this link:








DIY: 2.5L MKV Vacuum Pump Delete


Items purchased: IE plate: $73.00 (shipped) 5/16" ID fuel line (2 foot): $3.00 (local) Universal Tee: $5.00 (local) Clamps: $4.00 (local) I removed this the other night while doing a transmission swap: You can remove the pump without removing the transmission. Google search it to find the...




www.volkswagenownersclub.com


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## rpwils98 (7 mo ago)

I wanted to ask a question along the same lines. I have 2008 jetta with 120k and the head gasket needs to be replaced. Would you all recommend also changing the timing chains at the same time or is that really necessary in these cars?


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## BoomerGuy (10 mo ago)

rpwils98 said:


> I wanted to ask a question along the same lines. I have 2008 jetta with 120k and the head gasket needs to be replaced. Would you all recommend also changing the timing chains at the same time or is that really necessary in these cars?


Are you sure the head gasket needs replaced? My 2008 2.5 Rabbit had oil leaks when I bought it with 140k miles on it. One was from the valve cover gasket and the other was from the vacuum pump. Both were easy fixes. At over 160K miles, my engine burns no oil between 5k mile oil changes and it leaks no oil. I can barely hear the engine idle with the hood up. I consider the frequent oil changes to be "cheap insurance". 

As far as the 10K mile oil change intervals are concerned, this is just a marketing ploy induced by the government in Europe (probably in the US, as well) to "reduce the carbon footprint". This is also the reason for the recommended high viscosity of 5W/40.

The timing chain tensioners are plastic and need good oil to survive. Because I change my oil at shorter intervals, I have no fear of using 5W/30 oil, always premium brand full synthetic. (I won't get into the "which brand is best" debate.) On all my cars, German, Japanese and American, I take pictures of the engine when the valve cover is off to show off my silver color engine. They all have over 100K miles on them. .


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## rpwils98 (7 mo ago)

Yeah, cylinder 1 misfire, losing coolant and white smoke when starting.


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## BoomerGuy (10 mo ago)

rpwils98 said:


> Yeah, cylinder 1 misfire, losing coolant and white smoke when starting.


Ouch! I had a Subaru that did that with only 60K miles on it. Then I researched Subaru head gaskets. This problem went on for very many years without Subaru fixing it, even though they knew the solution. I lost faith in them and haven't bought another Subaru since. But that's another story.

Keep your progress posted. I would like to know the cause since this is the first time I've heard of this happening to this engine.


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## rpwils98 (7 mo ago)

BoomerGuy said:


> Ouch! I had a Subaru that did that with only 60K miles on it. Then I researched Subaru head gaskets. This problem went on for very many years without Subaru fixing it, even though they knew the solution. I lost faith in them and haven't bought another Subaru since. But that's another story.
> 
> Keep your progress posted. I would like to know the cause since this is the first time I've heard of this happening to this engine.


Yeah I’m a little concerned. This is very rare on these engines. We bought the car with 100k on if, what did the PO do or not do. What other issues will we face. The shops are estimating a head gasket and timing chain change for about 4K. On these you have to pull the transmission right?


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