# Why you shouldn't go 10,000 miles between oil changes.



## Mk2Reverie (Jan 25, 2011)

I work for an independent repair facility and we had an 04 Touareg in with an intermittent oil light concern. We verified low oil pressure and diagnosed a defective/clogged oil pump or pick up. Here is what we found -
























The oil pans have approximately 1/2 inch of sludge in them and the pick up is mostly clogged. The customer admitted to only doing oil changes every 10k (which i believe is a factory interval as well). To avoid this happening to yours please change your oil on a 5k interval - even if you use fully synthetic. *Keep in mind this job requires the removal of the engine which will run you upwards of $2000.00 which could be put towards quite a few oil changes

Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


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## OTSB708 (Mar 19, 2012)

Wow. Good thing I don't go over 5k for my oil changes. That's pretty scary.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

Does the customer have proof that he even changed the oil at 10k and used synthetic oil? 

There are lots of Touaregs and other vehicles out there doing 10k service with synthetic oil. If the oil really wasn't good enough for 10k, then you would see lots more issues than the relative few that you do actually see. 

I would bet that the customer can't produce receipts for proper 10k oil changes with synthetic and that is why they have the issue now.


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

I am with Spockat, I would bet he went way beyond 10K and more then likely was not using synthetic as well. There have not been issues reported at all like this on Club Touareg and trust me if it is an issue it would have been posted there. First I have heard of this issue.


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## Mk2Reverie (Jan 25, 2011)

spockcat said:


> Does the customer have proof that he even changed the oil at 10k and used synthetic oil?
> 
> There are lots of Touaregs and other vehicles out there doing 10k service with synthetic oil. If the oil really wasn't good enough for 10k, then you would see lots more issues than the relative few that you do actually see.
> 
> I would bet that the customer can't produce receipts for proper 10k oil changes with synthetic and that is why they have the issue now.


I have no history of the oil changes on file - I can only go by what he has told me. I believe he was doing his own oil changes. As for my cars... 5K is the max I'll go between oil change services (regardless of manufacturer claims) - its cheap insurance.:thumbup:


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

Mk2Reverie said:


> I have no history of the oil changes on file - I can only go by what he has told me. I believe he was doing his own oil changes. As for my cars... 5K is the max I'll go between oil change services (regardless of manufacturer claims) - its cheap insurance.:thumbup:


Why go 5k? Why not 3k or 1k? Cheap insurance, isn't it? 

BMW oil service interval is 15k on 1999 and beyond. Don't you think that there would be hundreds of thousands of BMWs in junk yards if the oil couldn't last that long?


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## Mk2Reverie (Jan 25, 2011)

LOL - OK, you can follow your 10-15K service interval - it's your dime.


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## shepherdgti (Jan 5, 2011)

I call :bs: that the guy changed his oil every 10k. Would have heard it on clubtouareg like others have said...my Audi has been changed every 10k for the last 5 yrs and I guarantee that the engine is just fine. Maybe some carbon buildup, but nothing like that


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

Mk2Reverie said:


> LOL - OK, you can follow your 10-15K service interval - it's your dime.


You are basing your comment off of one customers car which does not appear to have a very well known service history. So it is a little hard for those of use who are long term owners of Touaregs to buy this based on your one time experience with a sketchy at best service history of your customers Touareg. If it was an issue there would be a lot more complaints on here and Club Touareg of this. Nothing to do date and I have been a member on CT for a long while. You read about more complaints on forums then you do good things.


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## depiry (Feb 16, 2005)

Do we know if it was a VW certified oil? Marty

Some time ago there were some sludgeing problems with VW 's not the Touareg ,the oil quality was updated.


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## 2VWatatime (Aug 4, 2006)

Mk2Reverie said:


> I work for an independent repair facility and we had an 04 Touareg in with an intermittent oil light concern. Sent from my MB855 using Tapatalk


So you found a problem w/an 8 year old vehicle of undetermined mileage w/no verifiable service history, and from that you deduce that the issue is 10,000 mile/one year interval oil changes?

Seriously?

Since you're obviously possesed of extra sensory perception, let me know the winning #s for the lottery - I'll split it w/you, ok? :laugh:


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## hi_racing (Jul 6, 2004)

Used to work in a VW service department. 1.8T with 50,000 on the clock came in on the hook - bad turbo - no start. Tech took the valve cover off and it looked like the shots you showed. The owner said she never changed the oil - she'd drive till the light came on, take it to closest oil change place and have them add oil but not change it.


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## jtrujillo86 (Aug 21, 2005)

hi_racing said:


> Used to work in a VW service department. 1.8T with 50,000 on the clock came in on the hook - bad turbo - no start. Tech took the valve cover off and it looked like the shots you showed. The owner said she never changed the oil - she'd drive till the light came on, take it to closest oil change place and have them add oil but not change it.


Dear Christ...some people need to punched in the face for the way they treat cars. Five bucks says the owner still complains about her Volkswagen's "problems" :banghead:

- Jeremy.


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## Dostovel (Sep 16, 2011)

I bet you're right! Hahahaha 

Man, the stories I hear here at the dealership.


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## markitzero (May 10, 2003)

spockcat said:


> There are lots of Touaregs and other vehicles out there doing 10k service with synthetic oil. If the oil really wasn't good enough for 10k, then you would see lots more issues than the relative few that you do actually see..


Agreed. I did 10k changes on my Audi A6 and went to 120k when I sold it with zero problems. My Audi Q7 4.2 currently has 146k on it with 10k intervals. Our Porsche Cayenne 70k with 10k intervals. My fathers MB E350 95k with 10k intervals. No problems.

Something else was up there...


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Doesn't look like he used synthetic, and 10k is twice as long as anyone should go between oil changes; synthetic or not.


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## ABTMuDa (Mar 16, 2001)

Fully agree with above, something else was wrong in this pic. Looks like they skipped a couple of oil changes. 

One thing worth mentioning, I did an oil analysis on my 11 TReg TDI (5k miles) and the oil was not in great shape so I decided to change it myself. Up to you guys what you do with your cars, I plan on keeping mine for a long time so an extra oil change does not sound too terrible.


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## Eugene-Dave-1 (Apr 18, 2012)

Is that kind of thing possible if the car is only ever driven on short trips, never really gets up to full operating temperature, combined with a 10K oil change interval and possibly not using VW-approved oil? Anyway the service tech's info is based on what the owner told him and the results of the teardown. It's not up to him to force the owner to give a sworn deposition as to how the car has been driven & maintained. Just sayin'. 

Lots of firmly-held contradictory opinions every time the 10K interval is discussed!


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## JohnKK (Aug 30, 2004)

*Bet it was run low on oil too.*

I've hunches: that the 10k estimate was a tad optimistic, that non synth oil was used, and that the oil level was low for the second half of every change interval. 

My V8 needs a qt about every 5k miles. I either change the oil then or add some oil and change when I'm in the mood, sometime before 10k.


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## TIGSEL (Dec 22, 2011)

This looks more like 50K mile NON synthetic oil. I have seen similar case when Buick's motor seized and when they opened it up the oil pan look just like this one. Turned out that the guy didn't change his oil for 50-60K miles  The worst part was he didn't even know he should have :facepalm:


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## Eugene-Dave-1 (Apr 18, 2012)

True story, my boss is a college educated white collar professional, very smart. But not about cars! He drives a 2007 Chevy Tahoe. We were talking last week and he was about to leave on a driving vacation, casually mentioned that the Tahoe's "Low Oil Level!" light keeps coming on but since he still has "10% Oil Life Remaining" he's not worried. I was like, whoa, DO NOT disregard that low oil level warning! He was unconcerned, said he might look into it when he reaches his destination (150 miles away). I was unable to convince him of the potential damage that might occur.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

I might have you beat! LOL

Lady said it was 15k miles since her last oil change. Engine was running really rough, complained of an oil light and upper end clatter. 


















I offered her 5k for it as is cause it had 100k on it. I would have just swapped in a new VR6 for pretty cheap. She didn't take my offer. lol


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## Eugene-Dave-1 (Apr 18, 2012)

Boosted2003! said:


> I might you beat! LOL
> 
> Lady said it was 15k miles since her last oil change. Engine was running really rough, complained of an oil light and upper end clatter.
> 
> ...


Holy crap! I think you misheard her. She must have said 50K since the last oil change, not 15K. lol.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

hi_racing said:


> Used to work in a VW service department. 1.8T with 50,000 on the clock came in on the hook - bad turbo - no start. Tech took the valve cover off and it looked like the shots you showed. The owner said she never changed the oil - she'd drive till the light came on, take it to closest oil change place and have them add oil but not change it.


There was a guy at the VW dealership local to me that a guy brought an 09 CC 2.0t with a rod hanging out the block at 40k. Come to find out the guy never had the oil changed. He can't use the excuse that it was to expensive. LOL


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

Eugene-Dave-1 said:


> True story, my boss is a college educated white collar professional, very smart. But not about cars! He drives a 2007 Chevy Tahoe.



Colleges provide certification.

Education a thing people get mostly from their families, or, if they are smart, from life experience.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

Itzmann said:


> Colleges provide certification.
> 
> Education a thing people get mostly from their families, or, if they are smart, from life experience.


Agreed. College is just a tool to help you realize how to learn/teach yourself to do something.


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## bravocharlie (Nov 14, 2003)

Several years ago at the Porsche school in at Barber Motorsports Park, they had a fleet of all sorts of Porsche cars, but most predominantly are the 911 and the 911s they use for the track sessions. During the session I was there, several Mobil One guys were at Barber meeting with the Porsche guys. In summary, the 10,000 mile interval that Mobil One recommends for Porsche (which Porsche subscribes to in their manual) was said by the Mobil One guys to be short and than 15,000 was not a problem nor an issue with their synthetic oil. In fact, the follow up comment was if you do it every 3-5,000 miles, you're just wasting your money.

I put 218,000 miles on my 2004 Touareg. While it went against what I had grown up doing with oil change internals (5,000), i stuck to doing them every 10,000 miles in the Toaureg based on the Mobile One guy's comments at Porsche. I never had an issue.

Moving forward, with my 5 series BMW, the intervals are even longer (15,000) AND covered under the normal maintenance plan by BMW.

So, the bottom line is that conventional wisdom about frequent oil changes that may have been good in the past 20 years is no longer the case today with the synthetics that are run in the higher performance vehicles; especiallly the european vehicles. Despite the photos in this thread, I think it is reasonable to assume that there's a lot more to the story that the vehicle owner (or past owner) did that we simply don't know about that may have resulted in this situation.


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## grohgreg (Jun 12, 2011)

bravocharlie said:


> So, the bottom line is that conventional wisdom about frequent oil changes that may have been good in the past 20 years is no longer the case today with the synthetics that are run in the higher performance vehicles; especiallly the european vehicles.


Assuming the oil meets or exceeds the manuf spec for that specific vehicle, I agree. My 2006 E-class for example, could use several Euro-labeled oils, but none of those were reasonably available in my area of the US. The only US oil that satisfied the extended oil change interval for my engine was Mobil 1 Formula M. It is an oil spec'd for selected Mercedes diesels only, no other car manufacturer uses it. Needles to say, it was classed as a specialty oil around here, and only carried by a select few. So it is clear why a certain group of owners might rationalize that any old synthetic will do. Same with VW. It's not _who_ makes the oil that's important, *it's what's inside*. Meeting/exceeding the 507 spec is the key to the extended oil change interval. 

//greg//


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## Bigspence (Feb 2, 2004)

*133K mi.*

I have 133,000 mi. on my 2004 Touareg purchased new in 2004. I have the oil changed every 10,000 mi. and it never uses a drop. When a dealer changes the oil they put a sticker on the windshield for the next oil change to be at either 3,000 mi. or 5,000 mi. They don't read their own service manuals. They also always fill all the tires to 41 psi. Go figure.:screwy::screwy::screwy:


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

I thought your tires on a touareg should be around 41psi

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

rajvosa71000 said:


> I thought your tires on a touareg should be around 41psi
> 
> Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


 Not all four of them.


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## wensteph (Jun 1, 2010)

I have oil analysis done in my TDI and a 10K OCI is a reach. The factory fill was almost depleted of wear additives at 5,500 miles. Fuchs Titan GT-1 was still serviceable at 7,000 miles, but I would not have carried it out beyond that. I think *none* of the 507.00 spec oil are robust enough to last the recommended 10K OCI.


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## grohgreg (Jun 12, 2011)

Something's just not right here. There's got to be some other variable that's not being taken into account. It simply makes no sense for a car manufacturer to specify a specific oil spec , then not being able to meet it's own recommended service interval. And this engine's been around for at least 9 years. It seems like this issue would have surfaced before now. 

My 2006 E-class diesel had such an extended interval, no problems whatsoever. The oil in my Touareg was just fine at the initial 10k service. I'm buying a new Porsche diesel that has a *20k oil change interval *when C30 spec oil is used. I'm pretty sure their gasoline engines now have the same 20k interval on A40 oil. 

I'm just not buying that this is a global VAG problem, we're missing something.

//greg//


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## wensteph (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm a cynic and I think it's just corporate bean counters. I think VW offers free maintenance for the first 36K because BMW offered it. Money is saved if the customer does 3 rather than 4 or more changes. In order to make sure any DPF service doesn't fall within the free maintenance period, they spec low SAPS oil. 5W-30 vs the 5W-40 some MB spec oils provide is just to eek out one more percentage point on MPG. 

What people that know about oil have told me is that the low SAPS formulations caused the blenders to stop using the cheaper, but very effective, additives. 507.00 spec oil is very good oil, it is just asked to do an awful lot hindered by a narrow allowable additive window. I don't think you would actually harm your engine by running a 507 oil on 10K OCIs, I do think your engine would have a higher level of preventative wear.

So it might only last 300,000 miles instead of 400,000.


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## 2VWatatime (Aug 4, 2006)

wensteph said:


> I'm a cynic and I think it's just corporate bean counters.


Which makes no sense as the requirements are the same in markets where VW does *NOT* offer included maintenance. 
The reality is that many, many folks (even across the pond) do NOT perform required maintenance, with results as pictured above. Nattering @ various minutae is pointless - follow the schedule, you'll be good, and no, you won't keep your current vehicle to 500K miles...


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## Tahoe12 (Mar 22, 2005)

Mk2Reverie, I certainly don't fault you for trying to help others on here. Heck, that is what this place is all about. 

But kind of hard to make such a claim knowing very little what the last owner did to your car. We all have our lapses or memory and who knows what they truly did as far as maintenance without any record. 

At $110+ an oil change (04' V8 in an expensive city) I will be sticking to the 10K full synthetic, until someone convinces me otherwise. 

Safe driving.


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## 2482 (Sep 14, 2010)

I hate to say it but the type of vw owner who takes their car to a indy shop is mostly likely to skimp on oil changes. The vr6 and v8 are not sludge prone engines. They can easily do 10k on a vw502 spec oil.


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

2482 said:


> I hate to say it but the type of vw owner who takes their car to a indy shop is mostly likely to skimp on oil changes. The vr6 and v8 are not sludge prone engines. They can easily do 10k on a vw502 spec oil.


 I would rather take my car to a reputable indie. They may not have the the most attractive waiting areas if any but as a business owner they have more on the line than an employee at a dealership. I've had some dumb $h|+ done to my car at a dealer. 


Sent from my iDevice


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## .LSinLV. (Nov 13, 2009)

FYI - you need more than just syth oil. you need to use the proper SPEC of syth oil.

702.11 or greater or syth oil specifically for diesel or turbo applications. if you use the proper spec of oil for the intended use (gas or diesel, or turbo, etc) then the 10K intervals is not an issue.


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## BrewDude (Nov 3, 2000)

.LSinLV. said:


> FYI - you need more than just syth oil. you need to use the proper SPEC of *syth* oil.
> 
> 702.11 or greater or* syth *oil specifically for diesel or turbo applications. if you use the proper spec of oil for the intended use (gas or diesel, or turbo, etc) then the 10K intervals is not an issue.


Does that mean I have to go to the dark side for oil?


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