# How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines?



## vw86gti (Jun 15, 2001)

Looking for a new car. Need a 4 door car. Was looking at the Audi 90 Quattro. Love the style of them and would prefer to find one with the 20v 5cyl. So how reliable is this engine? Please be truthful about it and don't say it is reliable just because you are very fond of it. 
BTW....does THIS look like a good deal? 
Thanks


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## WannaCorrado (Apr 30, 2000)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (vw86gti)*

that 89 has a 20v?
anyways, price's too high IMO. I'd look for a newer 90.


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (vw86gti)*

I have owned my 20v for over 4 years now, have put 60,000 miles on it as well. Originally started with 162k, now at 221k, so this is what some consider "high mileage". I'll tell you what I have done and let YOU decide if this constitutes "reliability"
Engine repairs I have needed in the 4 years I have owned the car:
*3 Fuel Injectors
Maintenance:
*Oxygen Sensor
*Spark Plugs
*Air Filter(s)
*Oil Filter(s)
*Oil
*Timing Belt, Water Pump, Thermostat
The car has required some tweaking of the throttle body return, idle switch, and idle screw to maintain a smooth idle and such. The idle stablizer valve is known to be an issue in many cars. Typically, a good soak in carb cleaner and clean contacts will help this. The fuel injection system is somewhat "funky" being Hitachi designed. Its nothing terribly difficult to deal with but injectors are quite expensive and so far, no one has been able to subsitute Bosch injectors.
Other issues I have had:
*Dead power steering pump - caused by me doing too many donuts at full steering lock in the snow 
*Dead brake pressure accumulator (aka "the bomb"), a common failure in all Audis of this vintage
*Dead alternator at 180,000 miles
*Typical chassis maintenance: new brakes, new rear diff mounts, etc.
All in all, the engine is a strong unit. I have been driving the crap out of mine for so long and it is still very healthy, although I do have low compression on one cylinder. The clutch is original at 221k and is on its way out. I have a crunchy 2nd-3rd syncro on the original transmission.
As for that 90. That is not what I would call a good deal, or even CLOSE to a good deal. You should be able to find a healthy 90-91 Coupe Quattro in the $6000 price range. A good 90Q 20v should be in the $4000-5000 range. Besides, that car you are looking at is a 10v, not the 20v you so desire. 
Hope this helps!


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## vw86gti (Jun 15, 2001)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (Haiku Master)*

Thanks alot. Ya I didn't think that was a 20v. Too bad. I'll keep looking. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vw86gti (Jun 15, 2001)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (vw86gti)*

BTW, how are the v6's in the 90's? Haven't heard to many good things about them. 
Edit:
Checked Autotrader for some 90 V6's. Are these priced too high, or is that about right?
1994 Audi 90 $7500
1994 Audi 90 CS Quattro Sedan AWD $7999
1993 Audi 90 $4300


_Modified by vw86gti at 10:22 AM 6-25-2003_


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (vw86gti)*

One thing, try not to get a Hitachi ECU'ed 20v. There injectors fail occasionally and cost a lot to replace. 
Here's how you can use this to distinguish which is which.
http://forums.audiworld.com/9080/msgs/93468.phtml


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## Crispyfritter (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (yumyjagermiester)*

My 20V was reliable for the 3 weeks I had it. I bought it for $1800 with 200k miles on it and sold it for $2300. I replaced the front brakes and a wheel bearing.
It started every morning and drives very nice. It was quite reliable for the previous owner.
Chris


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_One thing, try not to get a Hitachi ECU'ed 20v. There injectors fail occasionally and cost a lot to replace. 
Here's how you can use this to distinguish which is which.
http://forums.audiworld.com/9080/msgs/93468.phtml

All 20v N/A had Hitachi ECUs so I'm not sure where this is coming from. They all use the same Hitachi injectors and the same Hitachi MPI engine control. The only noticeable difference in the electronics is in the idle stablizer valve - the later cars used a Bosch ISV which is just as unreliable as the Hitachi one...and somewhat less serviceable! The Hitachi ISV allows you to dismantle it and clean it relatively easily whereas the Bosch is much more difficult to clean.
[edit] the early cars with Hitachi ISVs also had an equal-length tube header. Audi says there was no hp difference, but I'll leave that question for the philosophers. Which shall flow more? Cast iron log manifold or beautiful "bag-o-snakes" header?


_Modified by Haiku Master at 9:34 PM 6-25-2003_


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (Haiku Master)*

I am 99% pretty sure the later 20v's had a Bosch ECU, Bosch ISV, and Bosch injectors, and the early, mostly non-airbag modles has Hitachi ECU and Hitachi injectors and Hitachi ISV. Then again I'v olnly had the CQ a year now so I am a nÜb.


_Modified by yumyjagermiester at 4:53 PM 6-25-2003_


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (vw86gti)*

The V6 in the 90s is a good motor, although I know less about them than the 20v N/A.
Maintenance issues seem to be leaking seals...I've heard the rear main seal is pretty delicate on this motor. Also, as with any of the more modern Audi motors, the timing belt is a critical maintenance item. 
Honestly, I think that if they sold the Coupe Quattro with the 2.8L V6 12v, I would gladly take that over my 20v (blasphemy?). The motor produces more horsepower and a LOT more torque than 20v. Having test driven a 90 V6 and a CQ, the 90 definetly felt quicker, although I was attracted to the CQ for styling, hatchback vs trunk, and for price (when I bought mine, they were $4000 different in price)
A B4 90 (93-95) is a good choice. I see them in the $4000-$8000 range. Ebay always has a few for very very cheap, but you should wait until one comes on that is somewhat local to you. The B4 90 has a lot of styling and interior updates over the typ89 (88-92). You get bigger fender flares, the famous B4 hood which is such a popular upgrade, as well as a more modern/aggressive front bumper. B4 90s also have larger stock brakes with the G60 2-piston calipers on 276x25 rotors. The stock 90Q20v has 256x22 rotors with single piston calipers. The G60 brake upgrade is very popular on the 20v cars.
Inside, the biggest update (in my opinion) is the more modern climate control.
Someone is bound to bring up the lack of aftermarket for the 12v V6. Its no worse than the 20v N/A. All the basics are out there...intake, exhaust, cams, short shift, big brakes, suspension etc. No one makes a decent chip for either car. The TAP chip is widely regarded to do absolutely nothing (except weight savings in your wallet). Very few people have been able to make significant gains on either motor while remaining naturally aspirated. There are a few choices in the chassis department - you can get a variety of spring sets, shocks, and the occasional coilover. Big Brake kits are around for either car. No matter which car you chose, a European headlight upgrade should be your first mod. It is without a doubt the best upgrade I have made on my Coupe.
In terms of swap-ability, the typ89 accepts a 10v turbo or 20v turbo more easily than the B4, as it already has the side-mounted radiator. The B4 accepts the 3.6L or 4.2L v8 (if you were up to this kind of challenge) more easily than the typ89 as it has the larger front mounted radiator and also a slightly different subframe which makes it easier to the route the exhaust from the v-style motors (of course) Also if you ever go 6-speed, the B4 subframe is better since the mounts are in the correct position and S2/RS2 mounts can be used. The typ89 subframe requires more custom work.
If I had it all to do over again, I might have chosen the B4 90. Good luck!


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

[No message]


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## vw86gti (Jun 15, 2001)

*Re: (yumyjagermiester)*

Thanks alot Haiku lots of good info there. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_I am 99% pretty sure the later 20v's had a Bosch ECU, Bosch ISV, and Bosch injectors, and the early, mostly non-airbag modles has Hitachi ECU and Hitachi injectors and Hitachi ISV. Then again I'v olnly had the CQ a year now so I am a nÜb.


I hate to come off as a jerk by disagreeing.
*ALL* 20v N/A motors have the same part number for injectors 054 133 551A and I know for a fact that they are Hitachi. Also, there is only one build revision on the ECU and they are both MPI from Hitachi. Bosch had very little to do with the engine management on the 7A motor. 
I know you are on the 20v list: haven't you read people complaining about the cost of Hitachi injectors and the inability to convert to Bosch? The Hitachi injectors are a different shape, with different o-rings and a different connection at the fuel rail. If the later cars had Bosch fueling, why wouldn't people just convert over to the later fuel system?
For the record, I replaced 3 original fuel injectors at around 210,000 miles. I'd say that they are plenty reliable. Yes they are quite expensive (list $210 each) but I don't see them as a reliability "issue" with the 20v.
[edit] typo made it all bold!


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## SRSVW (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (Haiku Master)*

All Coupes came with Hitachi,I have done hundreds of 90s and they all had Bosch ECUs and hitachi built the ECUs to bosch specs.My 90 has Bosch injectors.
There is so much misinformation here that I am amazed. The Hitachi ECU can be prone to failure,but I have never seen a problem with the Bosch unit.

Dick Shine 91 Audi 90 20V 244K miles


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## naudi1a (May 12, 2002)

*Re: How reliable are the 20v 5 cyl engines? (vw86gti)*

a good friend of mine hass a 88, 90 cs with 267,000 miles with the same clutch. other than a window regulator and a broken reciurc vent the car has been flawless for him


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