# 2.5 Timing Chain Jumped - Need Help



## 2005.5jetta2.5 (Mar 5, 2010)

2005.5 Jetta 2.5 timing chain recently jumped. The exhaust is off 50 degrees according to the dealer who wants 2700-5600 to fix. 
I have the engine apart am about to pop off the timing cover to replace the tensioner, but do not know where the timing marks are to locate TDC. I looked on the crank and do not see any marks. I do soo a small viewable space at the flywheel from under the car. Does anyone know where these marks are located? If so, how do you rotate the crank on this engine? there is no large nut in the middle of the crank pully.
If I can get that far I will also be graciously asking how to locate the cam timing as well. Any info would be extremely helpful.
A little about me - I am new to this forum, but spend a lot of time on the dodgecharger forum, as I am restoring a 69 charger. The VW is my newly wed wifes car, and I am very new to VW myself. I know how helpful the other forums are and the expertise of the users, which is why I am asking for your help. Thanks and glad to be a part of your group! 
Matt


_Modified by 2005.5jetta2.5 at 9:25 AM 3-5-2010_


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: 2.5 Timing Chain Jumped - Need Help (2005.5jetta2.5)*

Just curious, how many miles on the car?
The timing chain job can get really complicated really fast. You may need to pull the whole engine out to get it done. The only source with step by step instructions is the Bentley repair CD. The printed repair manual *does not* have timing chain information.
http://www.bentleypublishers.c....html


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## mcsdude23 (Aug 15, 2006)

I think the only person that can help you with your question is one of the VW techs floating around here.


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## 2005.5jetta2.5 (Mar 5, 2010)

*Re: (mcsdude23)*

Thanks for the info guys. As it turns out, I am going to pull the engine. It appears to have valve damage, so I need to do some pretty extensive work. 
Now for the next question.... Does anyone know if it is better to take the engine/trans combo out from the top or bottom? Looks tight from the top, and the bottom looks like the front cross member may need to be moved. Does anyone know of any tricks to wiggle it in and out without having to take off things like the exhaust manifold or the master cylinder?


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: (2005.5jetta2.5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2005.5jetta2.5* »_Thanks for the info guys. As it turns out, I am going to pull the engine. It appears to have valve damage, so I need to do some pretty extensive work. 
Now for the next question.... Does anyone know if it is better to take the engine/trans combo out from the top or bottom? Looks tight from the top, and the bottom looks like the front cross member may need to be moved. Does anyone know of any tricks to wiggle it in and out without having to take off things like the exhaust manifold or the master cylinder?

Yeah I suppose if the timing was off that bad it could cause interference. I don't know if this works on the MkV, but on some older VWs like the B5 Passat you could take off the whole front of the car (radiator, bumper, etc) and move out the engine that way. Being a relatively new car, I don't know of anyone here who has pulled an engine out.
Oh and how many miles are on the car?


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## 2005.5jetta2.5 (Mar 5, 2010)

*Re: (classicjetta)*

I wouldnt be opposed to removing the front if I knew how to get it off! Not sure if there are any supports that cannot be removed. 
Looks like it might come out the top if the engine was turned while lifting. Hoping someone has done this car before.
The Jetta has just over 100,000 miles. Its a shame since my wife just made her final payment last month!


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (2005.5jetta2.5)*

100k and the timing chain "jumped"(failed)?
holy crap. that doesn't inspire confidence. what is the recommended service interval for timing chain maintenance?
or do you just wait till it fails? seems like they should go longer than 100k.


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

Just something to consider. Have you thought about contacting your car insurance company to see if they would cover the repair? Also, is it a manual or an auto?


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## Murder'd (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: (mk1vw)*

There is no service interval for the timing chain so you should never need to replace it, right?


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (DUSlider)*

easier to take the front end off. not too hard. then the motor come straight out the front. once front end is off, unbolt the downpipe, dogbone mount and axles, the coolant hoses and engine harness. then the final thing is the 2 side moutns and its ready to be pulled(cliffnotes of engine pulling haha)
any idea why the chain skipped? sounds wierd. as you said, mostly bent valves because of it.


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## 2005.5jetta2.5 (Mar 5, 2010)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*

Never thought to check into insurance, but at this point I have it pretty torn apart. I guess I am in it for the long haul. Didnt know ins. might pick that up...
The tech and a few others we talked to said the timing chain jumped most likely because of the tensioner. They said especially with the 2005, they have seen the tensioner prematurely wear out. Maybe due to grit in the castings.... In any case, the chain should be good for a lifetime, but if the tensioner leaves too much slack the chain can jump a tooth or two,
I will try taking off the front clip as advised. Will keep you updated and put up a few picks of the project.


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## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (2005.5jetta2.5)*

This "issue" with the 2.5 (stories are becoming more and more common) is starting to frighten me. I have an '06 which is right around 70k miles and the chain has been progressively getting noisier and noisier especially while cold. 
Will definitely have it checked out at my next service appointment.


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## DUSlider (Nov 15, 2007)

Proper maintenance been done on the car in question? Oil changes every 5k? I've heard of less than 5 issues with timing chains, not sure why everyone is getting their painties in a bunch over it...


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (DUSlider)*

x2.
was the car purchased new? all oil changes on time?


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## pezzy84 (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: (mk1vw)*

Car purchased new with ~22 miles on the odo. All oil changes have been synthetic 5W-40, initially I followed the 10k intervals but went to 5k intervals around 50k when the chain started getting noisier. I knew some noise would be typical however it is getting to the point I can hear it slapping around while sitting in the drive through after ~5 minutes of driving after cold start. 
Not going into panic mode however timing chain problems seem to becoming more frequent as the oldest MKV's are starting to get to 100k mile mark. I would rather start planning financially now for possible major engine work than get hit with having to buy a new engine.


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## bopell (Feb 4, 2010)

*Re: 2.5 Timing Chain Jumped - Need Help (2005.5jetta2.5)*

Matt, I just completed a motor swap on my sons girlfriends 2005.5 jetta 2.5. It had 128,000 miles on the odometer and the timing chain jumped. I picked up a junk-yard motor with only 20k minus the bolt ons, starter, alternator, etc. for 450.00. this made more sense than replacing the chain and tensioners on the old motor and with the cost of vw tools added in it was probably cheaper! I would strongly recommend a bentley manual.
I removed the engine and tranny together from the bottom of the car. I jacked the car up to about 27 inches from the front bumper to the floor. I lowered the engine with my hoist onto a four wheeled dolly. by removing the front bumper and wheel well inner fenders (not hard to do), I had enough room to slide the motor out thru the passenger wheel well. you could also move the windshield washer reservoir to get a little more room if needed. note:The exhaust manifold was attached but the intake was removed.
It probably sounds more difficult than it was. I am not a professional mechanic, but if you use the manual and alot of patience and many hours....it can be done. good luck! let us know how goes.


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## 2005.5jetta2.5 (Mar 5, 2010)

*Re: 2.5 Timing Chain Jumped - Need Help (bopell)*

Thanks for the info bopell. It does look like it will fit. I am taking the same route as you. I have a junkyard engine with 25k miles coming Tuesday. For $700, I couldn’t come close to the head work that would need to be done. They warranty the engine fully for 90 days, so I would be out my time if it a junker.
The car was regularly maintained by VW at the standard intervals. This incident may have been preventable and I do take some blame. My only advice if I had it to do all over is this:
We have had problems with the coil packs going out twice. This last time seemed no different than the bad coil pack in the past, so I told my wife it should be ok - not to worry. She drove the car a few days with this condition which actually ran fine once you got it to 1500 rpms. My guess is the chain jumped 1 tooth and the engine could still perform reasonably decent. After time the chain probably jumped 2-3 teeth when if finally popped. The techs said the exhaust cam was the culprit. You live and learn.... Hopefully if this happens to someone else they will catch it before there is head damage. If the chain jumped 1 tooth and we caught it, it would have most likely been a $700 job to replace the top tensioner/chain.


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## Jon1983 (Feb 21, 2009)

*Re: (pezzy84)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pezzy84* »_This "issue" with the 2.5 (stories are becoming more and more common) is starting to frighten me.

Bear in mind that in this type of a forum, you only hear about _problems_. There could be 5-10 people who have problems and it seems like a common issue, yet there are thousands upon thousands of other people who have had no issues. When was the last time you saw a post saying "my engine is running perfectly, just thought you guys should know"?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

I dont think the chain jumped, I think the cam gear turned.


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

how are the gears secured, by a slot and key?
just wondering, is this a weak point?


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## markfif (Oct 25, 2007)

yes this is the weak point. the cam gears on the 2.5 do NOT have a slot and key like one would hope. this is due to the VVT i believe. i have heard of other 2.5's haveing the cam gear rotate on them and thus the valves hit the pistons and bent valves result. the way the cam gear is held in place is just by the torque of the bolt that connects it to cam.


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (markfif)*

never seen or heard of that.
can't believe VW would design something so critical like that.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

keep it going!
hugely informative for those of us around the 25K


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## markfif (Oct 25, 2007)

i couldn't believe it either. my 2007 2.5 auto is right at 75k. no engine problems to speak off but the transmission does act a tiny bit funny sometimes. not like fall out of gear or anything just a tad bit off. but back to the cam gear turning. we had a rabbit come in the shop i used to work at and we dynoed the car after some performance modifications, well these mods messed with the timing chain and i forget if it dropped the oil pressure or just messed up the trigonometry of the chain ( a spacer was added to the tensioner as well as a longer chain and head gasket spacer, but in any case it ran ok on the dyno but as soon as it was pulled off and shut down (oil pressure dropped), the next time we turned the car on the valves started hitting the pistons and just did work on the head. I felt really bad for this guy and his car. i think his bill to fix the valves, cut the valve seats, make sure the head was good, and with parts and labor, bill came out to 2500ish. and thats just getting the car running again, no more upgrades went in to that.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (markfif)*

installation went wrong then....
other headspacer cars are 100% fine.
yes andre is right...there is NO keyway on the cam gears. you set timing with special cam lock tool and torque the gear triple box to the correct torque and your good...these aren't mk1 rabbit anymore that you can fix with a hammer and screwdriver.....
we have not had one 2.5L in the shop for a "problem" always for upgrades. IMO this is a great motor and love to continue to work and develope things on our car. as said before, you only hear about the bad problems on here and really there hasn't been a lot of reports on these on the negitive side.


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## dub plate (Nov 29, 2008)

*Re: 2.5 Timing Chain Jumped - Need Help (2005.5jetta2.5)*

How did your chain skip? and what were the symptoms? I just bought a 2.5 and it has a skweeking fan belt like it is loose but i put a new one on and it still makes the sound? is this a tensor on its way out ?


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## 2005.5jetta2.5 (Mar 5, 2010)

*Re: 2.5 Timing Chain Jumped - Need Help (dub plate)*

The symptoms would be very similar if the engine was missing. The low rpm was shaky at first and the high rpm felt fine. There wasnt much noise in the beginning. Once the problem got worse, the car shook more and upper engine noise increased to the point of mechanical failure at the head.


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_these aren't mk1 rabbit anymore that you can fix with a hammer and screwdriver...

ah, the good ole days... change a timing belt for $10 and you're good for another 60k. even if the belt breaks just line the gears back up and put a new belt on.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Jon1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jon1983* »_
Bear in mind that in this type of a forum, you only hear about _problems_.

Exactly.
The 2.5 motor has effectively replaced the 2.0 8V motor in the popularity contest and YES the timing chain jumping / popping IS indeed a common issue. This year alone I sold 2 complete motors for replacement. I will pull down the popped motor today for picture purposes.


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

waiting for pics.
so some say the chains are a common problem, some say not.
curious to see what percentage of motors are failing and at what mileage.
also like to know if VW recognized this as a problem and developed a fix.
i guess these 10k oil changes aren't helping vw's image. first the 1.8T now this.
i have a 2010 Golf and not looking forward to early engine failures.


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## rob454 (Sep 18, 2009)

*Re: (mk1vw)*

I have a 2005.5 Jetta 2.5 and my Timing chain does not make any noise at all. I just approached 78k miles. Even the dealership that I bought it from put conventional oil in it... I changed it 2000 miles later though.


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (rob454)*

i just checked my owners manual-
the recommended oil change interval is 5k miles with the VW spec 502.00 5w-40 oil.
were earlier 2.5 cars recommended at 10k?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (mk1vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1vw* »_i just checked my owners manual-
the recommended oil change interval is 5k miles with the VW spec 502.00 5w-40 oil.
were earlier 2.5 cars recommended at 10k?

Could you post a pic of that information please?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (mk1vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1vw* »_waiting for pics.
so some say the chains are a common problem, some say not.
curious to see what percentage of motors are failing and at what mileage.
also like to know if VW recognized this as a problem and developed a fix.

Mileage on the 2 was 140,000+ km's. This is not going to be an issue on a 2008+ motor unless you are putting 100,000 km's / year!
This is not a problem so there should be no fix. Change your oil regularly and change your guides at the recommended intervals and you will be fine.Otherwise seek a replacement motor.
....I have a couple


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

what's the recommended interval for guide replacement?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

I dont think there is one. after reading the latest timing chain issues, I would say do your chains, tensioners and guides at 75k. especially if your doing a clutch around that time. 
do we know for sure if the upper chain is definitely the issue? I is possible it could be the lower chain.


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
Could you post a pic of that information please?

Judging by this page one would assume service intervals every 5k, right?








turn the page and you get this:



















































I guess the interval is 10k.
So I will get every other oil change for free, cause I'm changing at 5k if vw pays for it or not.


_Modified by mk1vw at 7:01 PM 3-9-2010_


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

talk about misleading, shame on vw.


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## Unilateral Phase Detractor (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: (mk1vw)*

ooo that's a major typo for them. Somebody could sue and demand they do the service every 5k.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_I dont think there is one. after reading the latest timing chain issues, I would say do your chains, tensioners and guides at 75k. especially if your doing a clutch around that time. 
do we know for sure if the upper chain is definitely the issue? I is possible it could be the lower chain.


I will know for sure when I take a crack @ this motor in the morning. I have been swamped and you can not sue VW if the dealerships are taking care of the cars


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

pics please


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## Outie5000 (Aug 8, 2007)

Just out of curiousity, how much would a crate motor cost?
If that's out of the question, make sure you bore out the cylinders. please.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (mk1vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Outie5000* »_Just out of curiousity, how much would a crate motor cost?

Used motors run about 1500 USD or so.

_Quote, originally posted by *mk1vw* »_pics please 

Do not have any images as yet but the motor I pulled down tonight had all the chains intact. This leads me to believe that the chain "jumped" which then causes the failure of the chain. I need to investuigate this more but I have a feeling that the failures are due to the VVT solenoid rather than the chains popping themselves.


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## got_vdub (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Im an advisor and a VW, AUdi, Porsche dealership and the service intervals are 10k. WE do recommend every 5k but according to the book its 10K. As for jumped belts, i have been here for 4 years and 1 has jumped due to an outside shop doing repairs and not be put back together correctly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I hope this gives some of you a little more confidence


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## ocellaris (Sep 6, 2009)

*Re: (mk1vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1vw* »_
Judging by this page one would assume service intervals every 5k, right?










Look at what the 5K maintenance is. It is just checking the diesel additive, that is it. Only applies to 3.0 TDI


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (ocellaris)*

yeah, i figured that out, but the full page presentation is superfluous and confusing, as the previous posts indicate.


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## mk1vw (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (got_vdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *got_vdub* »_Im an advisor and a VW, AUdi, Porsche dealership and the service intervals are 10k. WE do recommend every 5k but according to the book its 10K. As for jumped belts, i have been here for 4 years and 1 has jumped due to an outside shop doing repairs and not be put back together correctly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I hope this gives some of you a little more confidence









so if you recommend service every 5k, will VW pay for it on my carefree maintenance program?


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## got_vdub (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (mk1vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1vw* »_
so if you recommend service every 5k, will VW pay for it on my carefree maintenance program?

no VW only pays for the 10k intervals. its just a good way to keep the car taken car of. Kind of like coolant flushes, not in the book but we recommend them every 2 years


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## fanofthevw (Mar 29, 2010)

*Re: (got_vdub)*

Has anybody complained to you about the 5k/10k discrepancy in service? Seems like they recommend one thing but only cover another?


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## feels_road (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (fanofthevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fanofthevw* »_Has anybody complained to you about the 5k/10k discrepancy in service? Seems like they recommend one thing but only cover another?

No, you would look pretty silly if you complained: they only recommend one thing: 10,000 mile service/ oil changes. Unless you own a 3.0TDI and need the AdBlue fluid checked. And all of that is already stated above.


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## Humulus_Lupulus1992 (Sep 14, 2015)

*Timing Jumped - NEED ADVICE*

Okay so I have a 2010 MK6 VW Golf with a 2.5L Inline-5 cylinder engine. It has just a tad over 65,000 miles on it with a 5-speed transmission and apparently the timing jumped. I have it at a local shop that is known for their work in imports and they quoted me 2-2.5 thousand. I am wondering how I go about talking to VW about this as apparently it is a known failure of the engine. Any advice would be awesome! Thanks in advance!


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## killerbunny (Jul 10, 2008)

Humulus_Lupulus1992 said:


> Okay so I have a 2010 MK6 VW Golf with a 2.5L Inline-5 cylinder engine. It has just a tad over 65,000 miles on it with a 5-speed transmission and apparently the timing jumped. I have it at a local shop that is known for their work in imports and they quoted me 2-2.5 thousand. I am wondering how I go about talking to VW about this as apparently it is a known failure of the engine. Any advice would be awesome! Thanks in advance!


It is a know failure on motors before 2008, the timing chain system was revised afterwards. Not sure vw will be any help.


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