# What's holding you up after frame notch? (MKIV Content)



## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

I know a lot of people ask what they need to trim/do after getting a notch to lay frame. Today I wanted to see for myself what was holding me up and decided to take pics and share as I hope this will help other people out when they are wondering the same thing :thumbup:

This is what I will be addressing, hopefully within the next week or so to get my car to lay frame, I am about a 1/4 inch or so away right now.

Tie Rods are on frame on both sides, and as you can see, my drivers side axle is also on the frame.









Close up of tie rod.









Subframe on control arm. This will need to be trimmed.

















Pic of tie rod and drivers side axle on frame.









Driver's side axle on frame.









Hope this helps you guys out.


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## kilimats (Mar 5, 2006)

thanks, this will help me i'm sure :thumbup:


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## Mr.Tan (Jun 9, 2004)

now that the fronts figured out, time to do somethin with that rear


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

Mr.Tan said:


> now that the fronts figured out, time to do somethin with that rear


true, but its sitting on the beam 

should look a lot better when i get my wheels mounted, not these piece of **** wheels


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## Hustlin (Nov 22, 2004)

Yes laying frame on mk4 size tires isn't as easy as it looks haha.

You brought up all the points, just remember to check your clearances aired out (pull the front bumper off and look in there or something) to see if your wheel / tire comes close to the bag.

I've heard that an air hammer tie rod notch is enough, I got about half an inch out of it and still lays on the tie rods dead center in the notch. Anybody get more serious back there?


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

Hustlin said:


> Yes laying frame on mk4 size tires isn't as easy as it looks haha.
> 
> You brought up all the points, just remember to check your clearances aired out (pull the front bumper off and look in there or something) to see if your wheel / tire comes close to the bag.
> 
> I've heard that an air hammer tie rod notch is enough, I got about half an inch out of it and still lays on the tie rods dead center in the notch. Anybody get more serious back there?


yea my tires are on the fender wall as well, i figured addressing these things and ill be laying frame


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## Señor BigJuts (May 19, 2005)

goodluck with that subframe trimming, it was a pain for me. 

As of now i think the car is sitting on the driver axle and both tie rods. 
Goes on the lift in a couple days and i will update my post here.


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

Señor BigJuts said:


> goodluck with that subframe trimming, it was a pain for me.
> 
> As of now i think the car is sitting on the driver axle and both tie rods.
> Goes on the lift in a couple days and i will update my post here.


im going to take it to the guy around me who did my frame notch, im assuming he has a plasma cutter and will make easy of trimming the subframe


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## Señor BigJuts (May 19, 2005)

if you have a angle grinder and a cut off tool you should be able to do it yourself in one afternoon.
Not hard just takes some time and i'd recommend some ear plugs.

for the tie rods, just take a air hammer and bump it up a bit. The tie rods dont really need much room before you lay.


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## 16v_HOR (Jul 21, 2005)

orau22 said:


> im going to take it to the guy around me who did my frame notch, im assuming he has a plasma cutter and will make easy of trimming the subframe


 That's not only overkill, but it may be more trouble than it's worth to take the car there and pay him to get in there with a plasma cutter. The subframe trimming can easily be done at home with a grinder and jack stands. I used this method and trimming was done in under 5 minutes :thumbup:


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

16v_HOR said:


> That's not only overkill, but it may be more trouble than it's worth to take the car there and pay him to get in there with a plasma cutter. The subframe trimming can easily be done at home with a grinder and jack stands. I used this method and trimming was done in under 5 minutes :thumbup:


do not have a grinder, but ill see if someone has one i can borrow


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## Señor BigJuts (May 19, 2005)

home depot for $45 :thumbup: 

probably less than what you'll end up paying if you had someone do it. and you'll end up having a angle grinder for future use. win win situation.


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## Hustlin (Nov 22, 2004)

I put a sawzall between the control arm and subframe, quick work.

As for the tie rods, depending on tire diameter just bumping it up a bit isn't enough, a full on notch is required and thats not a quick frame notch, double plated, fuel lines need to be removed, etc...

If only h2 spindles were more affordable. :banghead:


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## OffLineR (Oct 19, 2010)

Hustlin said:


> ...
> If only h2 spindles were more affordable. :banghead:


Can't we group buy those. I'm sure more than 10 people will join us if the price is right.


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## ryanmiller (Apr 13, 2006)

i tried and they laughed at me


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## Hustlin (Nov 22, 2004)

OffLineR said:


> Can't we group buy those. I'm sure more than 10 people will join us if the price is right.


yea its called a couple of tt's found on blocks one morning


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## Neil patrick harris (Oct 2, 2009)

orau22 said:


>





Hustlin said:


> yea its called a couple of tt's found on blocks one morning



Soooo, Audi TT spindles would eliminate having to trim this?


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## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

Neil patrick harris said:


> Soooo, Audi TT spindles would eliminate having to trim this?


si. or h2 sport spindles


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## Señor BigJuts (May 19, 2005)

Neil patrick harris said:


> Soooo, Audi TT spindles would eliminate having to trim this?


right, but its really not that bad if you have a grinder. 


OP, what axles are those btw?


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## 16v_HOR (Jul 21, 2005)

Señor BigJuts said:


> home depot for $45 :thumbup:
> 
> probably less than what you'll end up paying if you had someone do it. and you'll end up having a angle grinder for future use. win win situation.


Harbor Frieght has them for about half of that, but I remember having a hard time finding a Harbor Frieght store when I lived in Jersey, so I guess go wherevers close.


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## OffLineR (Oct 19, 2010)

So what is the fender to ground distance when you haven't trimmed subframe?
Also does anyone know what is the distance when you lay frame as well?


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## Neil patrick harris (Oct 2, 2009)

martin13 said:


> si. or h2 sport spindles





Señor BigJuts said:


> right, but its really not that bad if you have a grinder.



Another stupid question, but the 337/20th spindles arent the same as the TT's are they?


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

Señor BigJuts said:


> right, but its really not that bad if you have a grinder.
> 
> 
> OP, what axles are those btw?


raxle


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## Hustlin (Nov 22, 2004)

Neil patrick harris said:


> Another stupid question, but the 337/20th spindles arent the same as the TT's are they?


No, they just have 6speed hubs


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

16v_HOR said:


> That's not only overkill, but it may be more trouble than it's worth to take the car there and pay him to get in there with a plasma cutter. The subframe trimming can easily be done at home with a grinder and jack stands. I used this method and trimming was done in under 5 minutes :thumbup:


ill see if i can borrow someones grinder



Hustlin said:


> I put a sawzall between the control arm and subframe, quick work.
> 
> As for the tie rods, depending on tire diameter just bumping it up a bit isn't enough, a full on notch is required and thats not a quick frame notch, double plated, fuel lines need to be removed, etc...
> 
> If only h2 spindles were more affordable. :banghead:


how did the sawzall work out?


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## Hustlin (Nov 22, 2004)

Awesome but I was on a lift


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## nopistons96 (Sep 25, 2007)

[No message]


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## jimothy cricket (Jul 9, 2008)

this is all very helpful:thumbup:

my only obsticle is going to be makin clearence for those damn tie rods


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## joelzy (Aug 20, 2007)

without tierods holding me up and the the subframe being bent where it comes in contact, im laying but i found that my driver's side axle is touching the frame now


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## Jayy (Jun 15, 2008)

nice write up and nice meeting you today :thumbup:


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## orau22 (Oct 15, 2008)

Jayy said:


> nice write up and nice meeting you today :thumbup:


:thumbup: good luck with the trunk setup man


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## najob08 (Apr 28, 2008)

Questions for all you guys running TT spindles...

Are all TT spindles equal? No difference between FWD, 1.8T or 3.2? Also do MK4 bearings work in the TT spindles or no?


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## Señor BigJuts (May 19, 2005)

OffLineR said:


> So what is the fender to ground distance when you haven't trimmed subframe?


I think i was at 22.5 before i trimmed my subframe.


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## OffLineR (Oct 19, 2010)

@Señor BigJuts
I'm at 22" without trimming.

@najob08
I remember reading you have to buy TT ball joints.


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## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

Señor BigJuts said:


> I think i was at 22.5 before i trimmed my subframe.


its gotta be lower than that. i dont even have a frame notch yet and im less than 23"


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## LOW36 (Jan 18, 2008)

I think my tires have to be holding me up. I have trimmed everything else and still sit close to 23" :facepalm:


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## OffLineR (Oct 19, 2010)

What is your tire\wheel setup?


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## Señor BigJuts (May 19, 2005)

Evil_Panda said:


> I think my tires have to be holding me up. I have trimmed everything else and still sit close to 23" :facepalm:


can you see it resting on the liners? If you lower it its noticeable to see if its being held up. Run your fingers under the fenders and see if the tire is hitting anything.
If you've cut everything and your still at 23" i'd say its the tires.


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## LOW36 (Jan 18, 2008)

OffLineR said:


> What is your tire\wheel setup?


18x8 with 235/40/18 winters 



Señor BigJuts said:


> can you see it resting on the liners? If you lower it its noticeable to see if its being held up. Run your fingers under the fenders and see if the tire is hitting anything.
> If you've cut everything and your still at 23" i'd say its the tires.


I have already cut the pinch welds if that is what you mean. I can see that the insides of the tires seem to touch the wheel well as well. Control arms are free, tie rod doesnt quite hit the rail. I am going to borrow some steels to see more.

This is aired out.


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## Señor BigJuts (May 19, 2005)

Evil_Panda said:


> 18x8 with 235/40/18 winters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those are some meaty tires I'd bet those 235's are holding you up. you could remove the fenders and see what's hitting or use some chalk on the tires and you'll be able to see where the chalk rubbed off on.


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## LOW36 (Jan 18, 2008)

Señor BigJuts said:


> Those are some meaty tires I'd bet those 235's are holding you up. you could remove the fenders and see what's hitting or use some chalk on the tires and you'll be able to see where the chalk rubbed off on.


The tires actually fit like a 225/40 weirdly enough. I have both front fenders off and the only thing I can tell might be holding me up is MAYBE the inside of the tire hitting the wheel well. I am half tempted to cut out the wheel well and widen them, lol.


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## OffLineR (Oct 19, 2010)

Evil_Panda said:


> The tires actually fit like a 225/40 weirdly enough. I have both front fenders off and the only thing I can tell might be holding me up is MAYBE the inside of the tire hitting the wheel well. I am half tempted to cut out the wheel well and widen them, lol.


I know my tires are holding me up but I'm at 22" anyway.
225x45x17x8.5 et30

I bet those tires are holding you up as well.
When you air it out tie rods are moving up hence the vertical distance between hub and steering box is getting shorter. So this causes the tires look outwards when you look at the front.
Than this became a problem because usully the front of the tires hit inside of the fenders.


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## Alexvr (Feb 6, 2008)

I did 2 axle notches and 2 tierod notch and car lays both control arm frame and middle frame by dog bone, what more will subframe trimming do? Tires are stock 16 with juicy tires lol


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## Hustlin (Nov 22, 2004)

Alexvr said:


> I did 2 axle notches and 2 tierod notch and car lays both control arm frame and middle frame by dog bone, what more will subframe trimming do? Tires are stock 16 with juicy tires lol



Your taps bent themselves, no worries about trimming. :beer:


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## Miguel Lopez Ma (Mar 12, 2007)

najob08 said:


> Questions for all you guys running TT spindles...
> 
> Are all TT spindles equal? No difference between FWD, 1.8T or 3.2? Also do MK4 bearings work in the TT spindles or no?




I have some TT spindle in my car for two years. They are just plug and play the TT 2WD, 4WD TT spindle have a ring to change the metric makes a 17mm screw, since the transmissions are different from 2wd to 4wd.

MK4 bearings fit in the TT spindles  , you can make MK4 bearing in to 4WD TT spindles and fit in to 2WD mk4 cars.

Sorry for me bad English.


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## Billburt (May 2, 2006)

sorry for bringing this back from the dead but I'm less than 5 hours away from finishing up my bag setup and noticed the same thing and I'm worried of hitting the subframe or destroying my axle if I air out...

I'm on 18x8 225.40 et45 w 5mm front/15mm rears. Any tips for me as I'm about to fill the bags for the first time? I have not notched the frame or anything.


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## ryanmiller (Apr 13, 2006)

thats on 17's


I have only one frame notch, and complete audi tt front setup.

the tie rods are flipped when you use the TT hubs, so that makes them clear by about 1/4 inch when aired out

The cast iorn control arms have a larger cutout in them so they dont hit the subframe. 

Also because the TT's have flipped balljoints the lower control arm balljoint is down further, so that theoretical pushes the control arm down, so it isn't at as much of a angle when its aired out.


other than that, i also beat the hell out of my inner fenders with a 4 pound sledge hammer, because my tires were hitting on the inside , frame rail side( keep in mind , im running 9.5's up front)

pretty much is a win win situation with these. less hacking, better handing, better suspension geometry and you get lower.



oh yeah, the difference in the hubs is the first gen mk1 tt has a standard mk4 style hub. you can use the hub 100% bolt on. the 2nd gen has the 20th style hub, where you need a axle that is threaded. 

You can press any standard mk4 bearing and hub into the TT spindles however.


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## hellaSmoked (Nov 24, 2004)

^ that is great info:beer:


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## bboy_jon (Jan 19, 2010)

resurrect  Question about subframe trimming, I found out over the weekend that it is holding me up. After trimming did you guys throw any paint on there or just left it as is?


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## wagner17 (Oct 20, 2009)

Great info. Im dying for tt/r front end


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

Anyone know if the sway bar attaches the same on r32/tt control arms?


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## [email protected] (Feb 19, 2010)

dOWa242 said:


> Anyone know if the sway bar attaches the same on r32/tt control arms?


No, it's not the same. It attaches to the strut body instead of the control arm.


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## joelzy (Aug 20, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> No, it's not the same. It attaches to the strut body instead of the control arm.


i think some mustve had the same as mk4 because it has a little tab where that sway bar should mount. its not threaded or anything but i cant imagine what else it would be for.









props to ryan miller btw on the knowledge, he helped me out big time when i was doing my conversion.


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> No, it's not the same. It attaches to the strut body instead of the control arm.


So much for my Hotchkiss swaybar.


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## martin13 (Apr 20, 2010)

dOWa242 said:


> So much for my Hotchkiss swaybar.


i think dorbritz sells brackets that go over the strut body so you can mount a sway


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## justmalpica (Apr 13, 2008)

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/audi-tt-spindle.htm

this is very through. i understand now.:thumbup:


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## President Lincoln (Jun 27, 2005)

justmalpica said:


> http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a4/audi-tt-spindle.htm
> 
> this is very through. i understand now.:thumbup:


Damn that link is super usefull. Thanks!


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## Miguel Lopez Ma (Mar 12, 2007)

ryanmiller said:


> thats on 17's
> 
> 
> I have only one frame notch, and complete audi tt front setup.
> ...


That's a friend. I have a set TT spindles, TT sway bar, TT control arms in my car.

Any pic´s



Control arms Audi TT Vs OEM















































Audi TT sway bar VS OEM





















I make home links for TT sway bar. Cutt and welding. 








































my inner fenders 















in the ground












pic´s car


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