# Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible



## subieguy (Nov 5, 2007)

My wife bought a 04 turbo beetle convertible last January and loves it. The only thing she ever complains about is the wasy it seems to lag when you take off in first or when you really want to get up to speed quick with it. Or if the AC is on it steals all the power to get going. She hopped in my 03 Mazdaspeed Protege today and after driving it she told me she needs her beetle to be more responsive and more horsepower. My question is can I get more power and performance out of this turbo beeetle? Are there aftermarket upgrades for this car? I am more familiar with Subarus and Mazdas. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
Richard.


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## Mikes72sb (Oct 27, 2001)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (subieguy)*

No. There are no aftermarket upgrades for the NBC...at all...















Chip it!
http://www.goapr.com
http://www.giacusa.com
http://www.unitronic.ca
http://www.revotechnik.com
pick one that has a dealer close to you. Drive there and have the ECU flashed with the new program. Drive home with one of these---->









and for a general sense of the 1.8T's potential, hit the 1.8T tech forum on this website http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## subieguy (Nov 5, 2007)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Mikes72sb)*

Thanks for the links!


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (subieguy)*

I suggest you upgrade the suspension b4 chipping it, NBC's are very susceptible to tipping over if powering too fast into a turn.


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## subieguy (Nov 5, 2007)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Billsbug)*

Ok then what is a good suspension setup for this beetle? Does somebody sell a suspension kit for this? I imagine somebody does but anybody have a link to point me in the right direction. Sorry for asking so many questions but again VW's are not really my thing. Just trying to get myself somewhat familiar with this car so I can do the mods she wants on it.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (subieguy)*

Go here to see wut I've done, u'll hafta register 1st: http://newbeetle.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5552
1. Get coilovers, Koni, FK, H&R, Neuspeed, Bilstein, don't waste ur time with struts/shocks/springs.
2. Rear sway bar; Autotech, Neuspeed or O-bar.
3. Better brake pads; Mintex Reds, Greenstuff or Hawks.
4. Stickier, wider, lower profile tires; go with 235/40/17 if u have OEM wheels, buy the best tire u can afford.
5. Turbo-back exhaust; so many out there, just Google 'New Beetle Turbo-back exhaust systems'. BTW, you won't be happy w/ the chip if u pass on the t/b system. 
Now ur ready for the chip.








U'll need to upgrade your diverter valve, get Forge or APR, NO blow-off valves!



_Modified by Billsbug at 2:59 PM 11-5-2007_


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## Mikes72sb (Oct 27, 2001)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Billsbug)*

^^^^^^^
Geez, Bill. She wants more power, not a project car








Bill does have a point, but I would recommend that you stick to these 3 things: Chip for power, SS lines and better pads for brakes, and a rear swaybar for suspension. Since you didn't mention anything about lowering the car or installing an exhaust, I'll leave that out. However, you can install a 2.5" or 3" downpipe to the stock cat-back exhaust for a nice increase in power without the increase in sound.
Just keep this rule of thumb in mind: New Beetles are essentially GTI's when it comes to the aftermarket. That means probably 97% of the things out there for a 1.8T GTI will fit on a New Beetle. NBC's are a little harder to shop for because they are heavier (slightly different suspension) and chips are less plentiful for them IIRC.


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## Mikes72sb (Oct 27, 2001)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Mikes72sb)*

Oh, and if the car is a 5-speed, you'll want to upgrade the clutch


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Mikes72sb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mikes72sb* »_^^^^^^^ 
Geez, Bill. She wants more power, not a project car









Yeah, I know man, but he/she will never *really* be happy if it's not set up correctly.


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## perpetualnewb (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Billsbug)*

geez guys, she wants to go a little faster not track the car. 
everyting you said is all good stuff and ive got it all done to my car. but unless the guy has money to burn you're gonna scare him off.
in many peoples oppinions the very first thing to do to the 1.8t is to chip it. you get alot of bang for your buck. 
my suggestion would be to go w/ revo. the flash feels very much like stock but w/ much more power. after the flash if she wants to do more stuff you can but i really doubt she will. if you want better handling just put some descent after market springs on. a 1' drop will suffice for the majority of people and cost about $150 compared to a grand or more for coilovers. 
just chip it and see if she wants more fun after that. pm me if you have any questions. just make sure your pop up blocker is turned off.










_Modified by perpetualnewb at 8:43 PM 11-7-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (perpetualnewb)*

With all due respect, well earned by ur sweet ride I must say http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif , ur wrong. 
How so I know? Cuz I did it just like you said.








1. APR chip. Result: almost tipped over accelerating into a wide sweeping turn at speed. Fast braking with stock pads? Fuggedaboutit.
2. Eibach lowering springs to correct the 'tip over' effect. Result: Hit a large dip in a highway at speed, car went down hard then back up so violently I almost lost control. The stock struts are too soft, u need to replace them with firmer ones. I went w/ Bilstein's, did some auto-x too, equaled a friend's Mini S times.
In a nutshell, stock VW verts are very 'soft'. They were never intended to be go fast machines. Spend a bit more, do it right, go fast, live longer.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

I say just get a chip and forget about everything else. It'll make the car much more fun to drive and you don't really need better brakes or suspension, stock ones are plenty.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (r0nd3L)*


_Quote, originally posted by *r0nd3L* »_I say just get a chip and forget about everything else. It'll make the car much more fun to drive and you don't really need better brakes or suspension, stock ones are plenty.

Is no one listening? U HAVE A TURBO S, NOT A VERT!


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_
Is no one listening? U HAVE A TURBO S, NOT A VERT!

Ok ok.


_Modified by r0nd3L at 11:45 AM 11-8-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*(r0nd3L)*

2 late, I saw ur post.








The S is already set up in a 'sport-like' manner, verts are not. I can remember how my '02 S, altho it definitely had a firmer ride than my '99, still would lift up at full throttle and roll in quick turns. As I'm set up now, an S is like a powderpuff. When I got the vert, I drove it away from the dealer like it was one of the other 2 NB's I had and I almost lost it the first day! It simply was engineered for cruising, not pavement pounding.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_2 late, I saw ur post.








The S is already set up in a 'sport-like' manner, verts are not. I can remember how my '02 S, altho it definitely had a firmer ride than my '99, still would lift up at full throttle and roll in quick turns. As I'm set up now, an S is like a powderpuff. When I got the vert, I drove it away from the dealer like it was one of the other 2 NB's I had and I almost lost it the first day! It simply was engineered for cruising, not pavement pounding. 


Lowering does not make car handle better. As a matter of fact, I'm sure that stock suspension handles better than coilovers slammed.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (r0nd3L)*

Oh gawd, lets not start in on that. If it's lowered only 1.5" it WILL handle better, lower than that u'll have issues with hopping on uneven pavement, I just deal with it at 2.5". On good pavement, my vert is on rails.


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## Mikes72sb (Oct 27, 2001)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Billsbug)*

oh eff this.
To the OP, just chip the car and take it from there. Your wife will NOT blow up because an otherwise stock car is chipped. I don't know how aggressive of a driver she is, but something tells me that she's not going to be going nuts with this car on the street or track. Seems to me that she's looking for a nice cruiser with some more oomph.
You will be MORE than happy with a chipped 1.8T. Stock brakes are MORE than sufficient for street-only driving. The stock suspension will provide a comfortable ride all year round and the car will still handle well.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_Oh gawd, lets not start in on that. If it's lowered only 1.5" it WILL handle better, lower than that u'll have issues with hopping on uneven pavement, I just deal with it at 2.5". On good pavement, my vert is on rails.

Lol. Raise the car all the way it'll go, and I guarantee it'll see improvement in handling. Our suspension's geometry just isn't good when you lower it.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (r0nd3L)*

Dude. I drove it for 6 months stock, it was the WORST driving experience evar, it was just plain scary. Then I drove it for 2 years with the bilstein/eibach's @ 1.5" drop, which was a really great set-up. With the Koni's at 2.5", yeah, it sucks if u hit an uneven transition when going thru a turn, but let me tell you, the go-kart-like ride makes it worth it, it's just awesome.


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## Y2kPython (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Billsbug)*

I can solve this really quickly.
Chip the car.
And as far as suspension goes. Preceived handling and actual handling are generally 2 seperate things. All that matters, as long as you aren't autocrossing or running SCCA is that you like how your car "feels" whether it handles better or not who knows who cares.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Y2kPython)*

I hated it just chipped, it felt dangerous, so problem not solved quickly.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Y2kPython)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Y2kPython* »_I can solve this really quickly.
Chip the car.
And as far as suspension goes. Preceived handling and actual handling are generally 2 seperate things. All that matters, as long as you aren't autocrossing or running SCCA is that you like how your car "feels" whether it handles better or not who knows who cares.









That's excatly what I meant. Feel of slammed car = nice and stable, but in reality it's not any better than stock as far as cornering speeds go.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (r0nd3L)*


_Quote, originally posted by *r0nd3L* »_
That's excatly what I meant. Feel of slammed car = nice and stable, but in reality it's not any better than stock as far as cornering speeds go.

So WRONG.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_
So WRONG. 

Lol, Bill, hard to convince you ehhh








Do you know how our front suspension works?








As you can see, little past stock height, the car starts losing negative camber, which equals to less traction at the corner.


_Modified by r0nd3L at 5:13 PM 11-8-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (r0nd3L)*

I've seen it all b4 man, but I'm telling u, I can take turns at 25-30 mph faster than stock. Maybe *Y2kPython* can come down and we can run a test.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_I've seen it all b4 man, but I'm telling u, I can take turns at 25-30 mph faster than stock. Maybe *Y2kPython* can come down and we can run a test.









DOOOOO IT!


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## subieguy (Nov 5, 2007)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Billsbug)*

I think I will go for the chip first. Then maybe a little later a exhaust sysytem. If the wife wants more later I will go that route. But I think those 2 things would be a good start.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (subieguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *subieguy* »_I think I will go for the chip first. Then maybe a little later a exhaust sysytem. If the wife wants more later I will go that route. But I think those 2 things would be a good start.

OK. 
BTW, I don't think REVO has an off-the-shelf flash program for the vert, but I know APR and GIAC do. If ur really want REVO, u can take it in to ur local tuner shop, they'll read ur ECU, send it to REVO, and it'll take 3-5 days to get it back. 
I recommend APR, their R1 diverter valve and their turbo back exhaust.
Once u get the chip, take it for a 'spirited' drive on the open road with some big sweeping turns, and get back to us with your observations.


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## vwjetta13 (Oct 30, 2006)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (subieguy)*

Of course....there are so many ways to get a lot of hp out of any car that has F/I.....Im guessing that she is not a big fan of exhausts, so i would say, buy a short-ram intake ($100-$150) and a chip ($300+) and she will definitely feel the difference http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## akyk5 (Oct 9, 2007)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (vwjetta13)*

i just recently got my wifes turbo s chipped at fixx through giac and it took them 4 and half hours to do it on my car and my friends tt. Susposivly the beetle was complicated and the ecu crashed so they took the whole thing apart and had to bench it, and omg it was the worst experice ever but the differnece in power was amazing. The guy that finally figured it out was the giac engineer reall smart guy, got lucky he was there bc if not then i dont no wat would of happened, he told me that the turbo s gets more horse power than the regular 1.8t's i dont no if thats true he also said that the k03 in the turbo s is strong like a k04, so yea thats my experience. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (vwjetta13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwjetta13* »_Of course....there are so many ways to get a lot of hp out of any car that has F/I.....Im guessing that she is not a big fan of exhausts, so i would say, buy a short-ram intake ($100-$150) and a chip ($300+) and she will definitely feel the difference http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Intake makes more interior noise than the exhaust. Once I put stock intake back on and been driving with just 3" turbo-back, the car is quite!


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## Y2kPython (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_I've seen it all b4 man, but I'm telling u, I can take turns at 25-30 mph faster than stock. Maybe *Y2kPython* can come down and we can run a test.









LOL
Okay I finally managed to get back on the board. Sadly though, I am not on stock springs. I am on 337 springs now, but I am still down for some cornering fun.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (r0nd3L) (Y2kPython)*

I put stock suspension recently as well as 15" steelies with winter tires. Today I swapped in my Superleggeras with summer tires to see how it rides. Holy ****, the handling is so much better than with Bilsteins and H&R Race springs, it's unbelievable. I mean, I knew stock height is the best, but I didn't know it'll make that much difference. Now imagine some Bilsteins or Konis with stock or Shine springs


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

Go to water fest, bring a fist full of cash buy APR programing drive home happy!
Look your not racing, ok maybe to and from your local Mc Donalds. So all this stuff may be too much unless you are auto crossing. I'm guessing she just wants a little more pep?
As for the car bing a bit slow with the AC on....welll yes it will do that. And since you are in a 1.8T engine it will be more notacable than say on a 6L I6.
You may also want to get her a new set of rims and tires, the lighter your rim/tire the faster the car will accelerate and turnin. 
Good luck.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (shahram177)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shahram177* »_Go to water fest, bring a fist full of cash buy APR programing drive home happy!
Look your not racing, ok maybe to and from your local Mc Donalds. So all this stuff may be too much unless you are auto crossing. I'm guessing she just wants a little more pep?
As for the car bing a bit slow with the AC on....welll yes it will do that. And since you are in a 1.8T engine it will be more notacable than say on a 6L I6.
You may also want to get her a new set of rims and tires, the lighter your rim/tire the faster the car will accelerate and turnin. 
Good luck.

Lol, good idea to wait a year till Waterfest


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

Is it an auto or a stick?
I had the unfortunate opportunity to drive a slush box bug once. When compared to my wifes manual NBS with it's 6 speed transmission it was a night and day difference.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (shahram177)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shahram177* »_Is it an auto or a stick?
I had the unfortunate opportunity to drive a slush box bug once. When compared to my wifes manual NBS with it's 6 speed transmission it was a night and day difference.

Uh-oh.


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

Mate my two cents.
If it's a slush box just give it a rest. 
Slap on new rims ( http://edgeracing.com/ ) on the car and forget about the chip. It adds about 30hp to the car but once that power makes it way past the slush box it won't all be there.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (shahram177)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shahram177* »_Mate my two cents.
If it's a slush box just give it a rest. 
Slap on new rims ( http://edgeracing.com/ ) on the car and forget about the chip. It adds about 30hp to the car but once that power makes it way past the slush box it won't all be there. 

Relax dude.








I have, and always have, driven stick. HOWEVER, there's a certain someone who will pipe up on ur 'slush box' remarks.


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

There are some real slush box lovers out there. And well, hay it's not my cup of tea. I prefer my crash box to a slush box any day. 
As for the edge racing, I swaped out my wifes NBS OEM rims with a nice set of aftermarket Enki rims and the car feels much faster.
May be a more practical method of solving your problem. Unsprung mass really does effect the behavior of a car.


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

Hay just had a brain fart! 
If your wifes car is a slush box, maybe some one makes some sort of chip for that?
I'm sure right now it's set at being set up for the average driver. Maybe there is a chip that would push out the change points?


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (shahram177)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shahram177* »_
Slap on new rims ( http://edgeracing.com/ ) on the car and forget about the chip. It adds about 30hp to the car...

30 lbs of saved wheel weight, say 6 lbs per tire, does not equal 30hp in gains.




_Modified by Billsbug at 1:53 PM 11-13-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (shahram177)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shahram177* »_Hay just had a brain fart! 
If your wifes car is a slush box, maybe some one makes some sort of chip for that?
I'm sure right now it's set at being set up for the average driver. Maybe there is a chip that would push out the change points? 

Doesn't the ECU adapt to the driver's particular driving style, including the auto tranny?


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (Billsbug)*

30 lbs of saved wheel weight, say 6 lbs per tire, does not equal 30hp in gains.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No no not extra hp but an over all improvement in the driving experience. Sice the car will have lighter wheels it can spin the faster and change direction faster than before.
I had this equation some place where unsprung weight was calculated in to hp loss.


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (Billsbug)*

Doesn't the ECU adapt to the driver's particular driving style, including the auto tranny?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the McLaren SLR?
Nah no way! Not in a under $30k car.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (shahram177)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shahram177* »_Doesn't the ECU adapt to the driver's particular driving style, including the auto tranny?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like the McLaren SLR?
Nah no way! Not in a under $30k car. 



The engine ECU definitely adapts, and I'm pretty sure almost all modern automatic transmission do so as well.


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## shahram177 (Aug 5, 2003)

The last slush box 1.8t bug I had the opportunity to drive felt very weak. As if 30hp or so were not there. 
It just didn't sing....
But it was bone stock and a new car.
So it may not have borken in yet.



_Modified by shahram177 at 8:44 PM 11-13-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (shahram177)*

My wife had an '03 1.8T Jetta wagon at one time, plenty quick off the line, had 180hp tho, but we really hated the Tiptronic in that car, just plain boring to drive, don't think I ever took a pic of it in 3 years.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (subieguy)*

I have a 04 Beetle Conv. 1.8T that I use for a daily driver.
I use and can highly recommend doing the following:

GIAC X+ Ecu Chip!!(Around $500) and a 4 Bar FPR(Around $100) will do the trick. Nice bump of 12-25+ Hp http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Here are 2 Places you can trust in Socal:
Contact Jeff Moss (Venice Beach Area) @ http://torque-factory.com/ 
or Contact ABDRacing (Riverside Area) @ http://abdracing.com/
Both places will treat you failry and this should take less than 1-2 hours to complete.
I have had my car chipped since 6800 Miles now 23K and no issues at all ... 
And I should also me mention that I haven't flipped the car as of yet on the stock suspension








However I am putting an Eibach Pro kit including Springs and Shocks on it once the parts come in!










_Modified by sledge0001 at 12:05 PM 11-18-2007_


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## cute(p.o.s) (Dec 9, 2006)

Between hearing about beetles tipping over and saying they need a new clutch just after chipping it and having to get it lowered I don't know who is more full of **** or if it is everyone in this forum. except for maybe the last guy who posted. Word of advice to the new guy with his wifes convertable beetle chip it and be happy don't worry about what the other guys are saying. I'm sure your wife will love the car just after chipping. Good luck


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (cute(p.o.s))*


_Quote, originally posted by *cute(p.o.s)* »_convertable









We'll take your advice when u learn how to spell it dude.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (sledge0001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sledge0001* »_And I should also me mention that I haven't flipped the car as of yet on the stock suspension

Pretty hard to flip it in LA traffic.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (Billsbug)*

Traffic in LA can be a beast







But I do run the poo out of this car on Mulholland drive and up & down the PCH and the car has never felt like it was going to flip. Hell I even took it to the Dragstrip! Actually the car seems to be solid.
I think if she is looking for a bit more spunk out of that 1.8T a chip and a 4 bar will do the trick. 
And if you notice in my tag I am getting ready to drop 1" front and rear, front and rear sway bars, upper stress bar on my NBC as well as a few other goodies. I am not doing this because of saftey concerns though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (cute(p.o.s))*


_Quote, originally posted by *cute(p.o.s)* »_ Word of advice to the new guy with his wifes convertable beetle chip it and be happy don't worry about what the other guys are saying. I'm sure your wife will love the car just after chipping. 

I wouldn't chip the car without adding a 4 bar. Nothing worse than an engine starving


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: Wife wants more power out of 04 turbo beetle convertible (sledge0001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sledge0001* »_And if you notice in my tag I am getting ready to drop 1" front and rear, front and rear sway bars, upper stress bar on my NBC as well as a few other goodies. I am not doing this because of saftey concerns though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm way, way ahead of u dude.








Go here to get some guidance if ur interested, u'll hafta register: http://newbeetle.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5552


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sledge0001* »_
I wouldn't chip the car without adding a 4 bar. Nothing worse than an engine starving

Must be specific to the GIAC chip, I don't have a 4BFR and certainly not 'starved' for fuel. A 4BFR is usually used on APH engines that are chipped (early 2001 and prior MY's).


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (Billsbug)*

When I spoke with Jeff Moss @ the torque-factory.com the first thing he said he would add after the GIAC Chip is a 4 Bar FPR just because the engine will want more fuel than the stock 3 bar will supply. The guys @ ABDRacing.com confirmed that it is not required but keeps things running smooth and certainly wouldn't hurt. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
They would know better than I








PS I added to my order @ ABD today I am going to give their 1.8T Mainfold a shot










_Modified by sledge0001 at 11:45 AM 11-21-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*(sledge0001)*

How come all the relatively seriously modded verts are always so far away, I can never get a chance to 'compare' performance?!


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*

On the chip thing, AFAIK, GIAC yields the least hp, APR is next up the ladder and very reliable, REVO yields the most hp but is the most unreliable.


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## r0nd3L (Nov 1, 2005)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_On the chip thing, AFAIK, GIAC yields the least hp, APR is next up the ladder and very reliable, REVO yields the most hp but is the most unreliable.

Lol. Giac is the one that gives most power, Revo in the middle, and APR the least. Unitronic would be somewhere between Giac and Revo as far as power goes.
And no, you don't need 4bar FPR unless the software calls for it, and the only one that does is Revo Stage 2.


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## TS2003 (Jul 16, 2006)

*Re: (sledge0001) (r0nd3L)*


_Quote, originally posted by *r0nd3L* »_
Lol. Giac is the one that gives most power, Revo in the middle, and APR the least. Unitronic would be somewhere between Giac and Revo as far as power goes.
And no, you don't need 4bar FPR unless the software calls for it, and the only one that does is Revo Stage 2.


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (r0nd3L)*


_Quote, originally posted by *r0nd3L* »_Lol. Giac is the one that gives most power.

*"GIAC performance software for the 2005 - 2002 New Beetle 1.8T smoothly delivers a 25-35 hp and 50-60 ft-lbs gain."*
Chippers always use crank numbers so that's 185/hp (150 + 35).
*"VW Beetle 1.8T - APR ECU Upgrade
New Beetle 215hp/247lb-ft 
Turbo S 215hp/247lb-ft"*
Even if GIAC is talking "wheel hp", with a 15% conversion from 35whp to 41crankhp, it's still only 192/hp.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TS2003* »_BTW: I have the Revo flash, power is very good and somewhat aggressive on the low end but over all smooth throughout the revs, it just pulls and pulls... I had the APR 93 oct. flash and to "me" the car didn't feel that much different than stock, just a few more pounds of boost. but it didn't "kick me in the pants" like the GIAC and the Revo do, haven't had the chance to feel the Uni flash but based on r0nd3L's dyno numbers I figure it's on par with GIAC and Revo...

Must have been a bad program install.








Let's talk numbers. I dynoed at 190whp/210wtq, so with the crank conversion of 225hp/248tq, I did even better than APR quoted. 
A 75hp jump from stock will most definitely give you a 'kick in the pants'.


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_
Let's talk numbers. I dynoed at 190whp/210wtq, so with the crank conversion of 225hp/248tq, I did even better than APR quoted. 


The same can be said for GIAC, if not more so. They have conservative numbers on the website. A buddy of mines dynoed 205whp with GIAC and a downpipe. 
Also, lowering the car is bad in terms of overall grip. Your "go kart" feel comes from quicker weight transfer(due to the stiffer springs), not because the car is lower.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (shahram177)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_The same can be said for GIAC, if not more so. They have conservative numbers on the website. A buddy of mines dynoed 205whp with GIAC and a downpipe.

Dynos vary from dyno brand to dyno brand, the bay was 105 degrees in my case. I'm just disputing claims that GIAC has way higher HP numbers. Not only that, there are differences in stages of power delivery between the chips. 


_Modified by Billsbug at 4:32 PM 11-28-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (20aeman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20aeman* »_Also, lowering the car is bad in terms of overall grip. Your "go kart" feel comes from quicker weight transfer(due to the stiffer springs), not because the car is lower.

I know how it works man, I also have a rear sway and upper stress bar and fat tires, so yeah, its pretty stiff







, but I've never had a moment of loose grip on decent pavement, even on freeway off-ramp turns with transition bumps or dips, only if a single front tire hits a large bump on a turn.


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## the_journalist (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*

This thread is just plain funny.
A. If you manage to flip a NB or any other mk4 platform car while accelerating, you are doing somehting WRONG. Stock suspension has a ton of body roll, and feels really tippy compared to a good aftermarket set up. But, it's not going to flip over, ESPECIALLY while accelerating.
B. It's pretty commonly known that GIAC and APR make the most power, but the GIAC chip is slightly more aggressive. Any chip from GIAC, APR, Revo, Unitronics, or any other chip will yield very noticeable power on a 150hp 1.8T roughly the same as a chipped Turbo S. 
C. A chipped automatic 1.8T will make a huge difference over stock. In, fact, given sticky enough tires to keep the power to the ground, an automatic will come off the line quicker than a manual due to the torque multiplication of the torque converter and the ability to power brake the car to get the boost up before you take off. However, super sticky tires and more power will destroy a VW automatic pretty quickly. (They aren't known for their reliability.)
D. Stock 1.8T clutches are a known weakness. It's not necessary to replace right away, but don't be surprised when it doesn't last very long. A G60 single mass flywheel and a VR6 clutch are the answer to the problem.
To the OP, just chip the car and she'll be happy. She will likely never drive the car hard enough to need any of the rest of the mods listed in this thread, except for maybe the clutch later on.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (the_journalist)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_journalist* »_This thread is just plain funny.
A. If you manage to flip a NB or any other mk4 platform car while accelerating, you are doing somehting WRONG. Stock suspension has a ton of body roll, and feels really tippy compared to a good aftermarket set up. But, it's not going to flip over, ESPECIALLY while accelerating.
B. It's pretty commonly known that GIAC and APR make the most power, but the GIAC chip is slightly more aggressive. Any chip from GIAC, APR, Revo, Unitronics, or any other chip will yield very noticeable power on a 150hp 1.8T roughly the same as a chipped Turbo S. 
C. A chipped automatic 1.8T will make a huge difference over stock. In, fact, given sticky enough tires to keep the power to the ground, an automatic will come off the line quicker than a manual due to the torque multiplication of the torque converter and the ability to power brake the car to get the boost up before you take off. However, super sticky tires and more power will destroy a VW automatic pretty quickly. (They aren't known for their reliability.)
D. Stock 1.8T clutches are a known weakness. It's not necessary to replace right away, but don't be surprised when it doesn't last very long. A G60 single mass flywheel and a VR6 clutch are the answer to the problem.
To the OP, just chip the car and she'll be happy. She will likely never drive the car hard enough to need any of the rest of the mods listed in this thread, except for maybe the clutch later on.

I fail to see the humor.
Your impressive collection of VW's does not include a NB vert, so you have no seat time to make comparisons. I do. I've owned 2 NB tintops, a '99 1.8T and an '02 Turbo S and I call tell you they were much stiffer, both cars had zero mods and ran OEM tires, and I never felt a single moment of an impending flip-over at the limit.
The very first day I drove the vert after the chip and TB exhaust, no other mods: I was in the fast lane accelerating into a wide turn that goes downhill with a negative pitch, meaning the road angles down at the left shoulder, i.e. not banked, a turn I had been taking in the 2 previous NB's since 1999, at about 70mph or so. The understeer was so pronounced and the vert tipped to the left so severely that I had to lift off throttle and hit the brakes to recover. Any attempt to "push" thru the turn I'm convinced would have caused me to go into the shoulder, catch a wheel in the dirt and flip or at least slam into the metal barrier.
NB verts were not designed for 20psi boost and 200whp. End of story.


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (sledge0001) (the_journalist)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_journalist* »_This thread is just plain funny.


Funny?? Do I amuse you??
This is an open forum where people can discuss the issue at hand. In this case the issue was how to get more power out of a 04 Beetle Turbo Conv. I happen to have a 2004 Turbo Beetle Conv and was speaking about my experiences with my car as were others with theirs.
We all have our preferences








This thread will hopefully allow the original poster to make a better informed decision about increasing the power in his wifes Beetle.
With that being said, I think we can all agree that chipping the car will certainly make a nice boost in power. Which chip to buy???? I would leave that up to the buyer! But my vote is for the GIAC only because of my experience with it. As for the other ECU chips I can not comment on! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by sledge0001 at 8:33 AM 11-29-2007_


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (the_journalist)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_journalist* »_To the OP, just chip the car and she'll be happy.

Where's a pic of the jet-powered beetle?


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*

http://www.ronpatrickstuff.com/


















_Modified by sledge0001 at 12:56 PM 11-29-2007_


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## the_journalist (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_
I fail to see the humor.
Your impressive collection of VW's does not include a NB vert, so you have no seat time to make comparisons. I do. I've owned 2 NB tintops, a '99 1.8T and an '02 Turbo S and I call tell you they were much stiffer, both cars had zero mods and ran OEM tires, and I never felt a single moment of an impending flip-over at the limit.
The very first day I drove the vert after the chip and TB exhaust, no other mods: I was in the fast lane accelerating into a wide turn that goes downhill with a negative pitch, meaning the road angles down at the left shoulder, i.e. not banked, a turn I had been taking in the 2 previous NB's since 1999, at about 70mph or so. The understeer was so pronounced and the vert tipped to the left so severely that I had to lift off throttle and hit the brakes to recover. Any attempt to "push" thru the turn I'm convinced would have caused me to go into the shoulder, catch a wheel in the dirt and flip or at least slam into the metal barrier.
NB verts were not designed for 20psi boost and 200whp. End of story. 


I've driven my share of drop top NBs. What you just described was driver error. The severe body roll and understeer were due to you being used to cars with sport suspension, not a vert's tendency to flip over. I'm sure it felt pretty scary. You have to remember that all of the convertible beetles have roughly the equivalent suspension to the base model mk4 Golf, just adjusted for the heavier weight. The combination of a fairly high center of gravity, mushy springs, slippery stock tires and you over-driving the car almost bit you because you were used to a different setup. Long story short, you were driving the car too hard and nearly ran it off the road. Had nothing to do with the car being chipped. I've pushed my GTI to the point of it snapping into hard oversteer twice. While it scared the hell out of me for the rear end of the car to slide out like that, the only fault there was my driving.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*(sledge0001) (the_journalist)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_journalist* »_
I've driven my share of drop top NBs. What you just described was driver error. The severe body roll and understeer were due to you being used to cars with sport suspension, not a vert's tendency to flip over. I'm sure it felt pretty scary. You have to remember that all of the convertible beetles have roughly the equivalent suspension to the base model mk4 Golf, just adjusted for the heavier weight. The combination of a fairly high center of gravity, mushy springs, slippery stock tires and you over-driving the car almost bit you because you were used to a different setup. Long story short, you were driving the car too hard and nearly ran it off the road. Had nothing to do with the car being chipped. I've pushed my GTI to the point of it snapping into hard oversteer twice. While it scared the hell out of me for the rear end of the car to slide out like that, the only fault there was my driving.

You just don't get it dude, I'm not the 'driver error' type.








I've driven that SAME TURN at that SAME SPEED hundreds and hundreds of mornings and I always pushed thru that turn in my previous NB's with no issues. 
The OEM vert is a marshmallow, it can not be pushed thru a turn, especially with higher hp and boost kicking in.


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## Y2kPython (May 31, 2003)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_
You just don't get it dude, I'm not the 'driver error' type.








I've driven that SAME TURN at that SAME SPEED hundreds and hundreds of mornings and I always pushed thru that turn in my previous NB's with no issues. 
The OEM vert is a marshmallow, it can not be pushed thru a turn, especially with higher hp and boost kicking in.

I think what he is saying Bill is that it really doesn't matter about the amount of HP in the turn, it's more about the speed. If you had taken that turn unchipped and at 70mph you would have gotten the same result.


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## the_journalist (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_
You just don't get it dude, I'm not the 'driver error' type.








I've driven that SAME TURN at that SAME SPEED hundreds and hundreds of mornings and I always pushed thru that turn in my previous NB's with no issues. 
The OEM vert is a marshmallow, it can not be pushed thru a turn, especially with higher hp and boost kicking in.

Everybody is the 'driver error' type. It's only dangerous when you refuse to admit it. Even pro race drivers make mistakes.
Your mistake was assuming that the vert had the exact same cornering capabilities as your previous NBs. I hit the off-ramp from the freeway to my neigborhood at about 75mph on a daily basis coming home from work. I've done the same in the GTI, the Beetle and the Scirocco. Would I try it that fast in my diesel Rabbit, even though it's the same chassis as the Scirocco? No way in hell. The Rabbit has mushy springs, no sway bars and little skinny 155/70/13 tires on it. It simply wouldn't make the turn. BTW, it has all of 55 horsepower.
There is very little connection between handling and horsepower. Had you tried to take that same corner at the same speed in a 2.0L Beetle Vert, you would have had the exact same result with a whopping 95 horsepower to the wheels. In fact, if you had the same car detuned to put out 30 horspower, you STILL would have had the same result.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (the_journalist)*

:yawn:


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## the_journalist (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Billsbug* »_:yawn:

Why is it that you're the first one to jump in when someone says something incorrect in this forum, but you can't handle someone calling you out for saying something that is completely out in left field? Just admit you were wrong and go on with life.


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## Billsbug (Sep 15, 2004)

*Re: (sledge0001) (Billsbug)*

My point is this: I didn't say I'm not *capable *of driver error, however, it's just not typical of me. The chipped vert was overpowered with respect to it's OEM suspension and I quickly found myself in a dangerous situation. If it can happen to me, it can certainly happen to the OP's chick.


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