# Evo header and hpa manifold or c2 stage 1 turbo?



## band-it (Sep 7, 2011)

I want to know if the evo header and sri hpa manifold will make my car fast enough with a united motorsports tune. I would also like to know which setup would be more reliable(stage 1 or evoheader and sri manifold?)


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## band-it (Sep 7, 2011)

my car is a rabbit automatic


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

band-it said:


> I want to know if the evo header and sri hpa manifold will make my car fast enough with a united motorsports tune. I would also like to know which setup would be more reliable(stage 1 or evoheader and sri manifold?)


HPA manifold is an exhaust manifold for a turbo, not an intake manifold. I think you're confusing it with the *HEP* SRI manifold. 

But yea i say turbo:laugh: header is ~$1000 and HEP SRI and tune is ~$1600 so you might as well spend another $400 for the C2 Stage 1 kit and be boost'n :thumbup:


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## band-it (Sep 7, 2011)

one of my big problems is that I only have a united motorsports company and not a c2 to tune the turbo because I don't want to ship my ecu to c2. Does anyone think u.m. can tune it right for the stage 1?


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

I say turbo. You will also feel much more torque. With the auto tranny its gonna be hard to reach those higher revs that the sri needs for any big gains.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

for an auto? stage 1 and done. i wouldn't go over 6 psi on stock torque converter.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

tchilds said:


> i wouldn't go over 6 psi on stock torque converter.


Why do you say that? Because I am...eh...getting there...but have all the parts for stage 3, and plan on starting off with the stock 6AT. I have only heard of one turboed 2.5L 6AT give out, and many others that haven't (many more than 6psi on the C2 kit). Just wondering if you have any data to back up what you said. I am going to test the tolerance of this transmission, and if/when it breaks, then decide between that Level10 tc or swap in a 6MT with some goodies in it.


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## band-it (Sep 7, 2011)

so do you guys think that u.m. guys can tune it correctly? and what do I need to change the psi on the turbo?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

tchilds said:


> for an auto? stage 1 and done. i wouldn't go over 6 psi on stock torque converter.


agreed.

level 10' converter is merely a band aid...

not all autos will hold the power


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

do a evo header, C2 SRI and C2 software and its cheaper and it's PROVEN more horse power. i personally dyno'd that setup 18 times. videos, charts, road course races on this setup. it works perfect.


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## pennsydubbin (Mar 3, 2010)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> do a evo header, C2 SRI and C2 software and its cheaper and it's PROVEN more horse power. i personally dyno'd that setup 18 times. videos, charts, road course races on this setup. it works perfect.


:thumbup:


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

how does the automatic play into the sri? will a tune allow it too rev to over 7k? just wondering


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> do a evo header, C2 SRI and C2 software and its cheaper and it's PROVEN more horse power. i personally dyno'd that setup 18 times. videos, charts, road course races on this setup. it works perfect.


I think those vids need to be posted hopefully with sound. :thumbup:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

Videos are posted in the "Nls road racer" thread. 

The auto can't rev to 7200 because the Trans ecu shifts sooner.


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## jaja123 (Jan 17, 2011)

so thats means it will not be able to take the full advantage of the sri and will make less power. So I think turbo stage 1 would be better for this guy. Plus you get the rush when boost kicks and lots more torque.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i just woundnt recommend turbo on a automatic... NA is better, more reliable.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

as on any car, turbo is harsher. BUT in pasted history. there are a few autos that are boosted pretty well and work perfect. it all depends on the condition of the car when you do it, how you drive and how you take care of it. the one taht went bad on here had issues BEFORE the turbo as well.....

its fine to turbo a auto IF its ok. will it handle 400whp? no, not stock. but a stg1 or even 2? sure.


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## tchilds (Nov 21, 2008)

yep lots of 1.8t guys ran way more power through the automatic than any stage 2 rabbit. no idea if they were that different from these auto's sry. anything over stage 2 starts to get into track use only anyway. the SRI will give a lot better throttle response w/boosted applications too. lots of other benefits besides better flow/more power.

i mean if you spinning wheels at 300hp you can spin them at 600hp. its when they hook on a properly prepared track and sticky tires that you start to break stuff. and lets get real, we ain't doing nothing but spinning tires w/our daily driven all seasons on the best days around these forums.

i still wouldn't tell anyone for 100% sure that the auto will hold up for a good time on anything over stage 1 though. you guys should have gotten the heated seats instead of the auto :laugh:


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Hands down go turbo.if you can swing it. Jeff (united) can tune your c2 kit as well. He's a guru with the 2.5 he essentially is the guy who designed the kit in the first place from what I've heard. 

BUT! An automatic will never be strong enough and won't shift the way a standard would. 

Have you thought about swapping in a 5 speed? Then going either route will be better. I've never seen a point in trying to make an auto fast. It's always best to have a good foundation before you build anything...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TylerO28 said:


> BUT! An automatic will never be strong enough and won't shift the way a standard would.
> 
> Have you thought about swapping in a 5 speed? Then going either route will be better. I've never seen a point in trying to make an auto fast. It's always best to have a good foundation before you build anything...



Couldnt agree more
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk


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## Vash350z (Jun 25, 2007)

Good foundation = better car...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Vash350z said:


> Good foundation = better car...


thats the motto.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

Do stg 2 turbo unless you live in a cold climate. Auto is actually a plus with the turbo kit whereas its gonna be an issue with the NA build

Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


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## RCC kayak (Nov 17, 2011)

BlackRabbit2point5 said:


> Do stg 2 turbo unless you live in a cold climate. Auto is actually a plus with the turbo kit whereas its gonna be an issue with the NA build
> 
> Sent from my HTC Evo 4G Shift using Tapatalk


Sorry, but why would you recommend against stage 2 for cold climates? It was a build I was eventually leaning towards and just trying to learn as I already made the auto mistake :thumbdown:


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

why do people keep saying the autobox is a bad idea? I can't say I'm not a little bit worried of putting 350hp through it, but I gotta keep my hopes high that it will hold up! You guys are freakin me out and without any hard evidence haha.


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## spdfrek (Feb 28, 2002)

TrillyPop said:


> why do people keep saying the autobox is a bad idea? I can't say I'm not a little bit worried of putting 350hp through it, but I gotta keep my hopes high that it will hold up! You guys are freakin me out and without any hard evidence haha.


Past experience has taught me that a 5spd vw trans just can't hold a lot of torque and the autos are even worse.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

the autos cant/wont hold much power... expensive to fix, they lose a lot of power to the wheels..

if/when they start slipping, there is no real fix. The "solution" is a torque converter from level 10, one it is not warrantied to solve the issue. And, from kyle's experice (he has a turbo wabbit) its not the best thing he has done.

and in my experience: going at the same speed or going at the same RPMs, the 02q put more power down, and gives better mpgs.

its totally up to you, but again... auto+performance= unreal.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Well I hope my tranny holds up and it proves you wrong very soon. We shall see I suppose. It does suck that very few ppl have tried the level10 torque converter, and with those few there are questionable outcomes.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

it's been done stg3.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Yea I know there has been at least one stage 3 autoboxes that is holding up fine. I'll have a little more aggressive setup, but hope it will hold up! Only time will tell...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TrillyPop said:


> Well I hope my tranny holds up and it proves you wrong very soon. We shall see I suppose. It does suck that very few ppl have tried the level10 torque converter, and with those few there are questionable outcomes.


Hey, if you do it, and no issues, then more power to you.



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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

RCC kayak said:


> Sorry, but why would you recommend against stage 2 for cold climates? It was a build I was eventually leaning towards and just trying to learn as I already made the auto mistake :thumbdown:


I was against stg 1 unless he lives in a cold climate. No intercooler is gonna suck. If you live in a hot climate with no 93 octane you'll need water meth

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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Honestly there isn't a point... Auto will never hold 350hp... If you could understand that and live with maybe 250 then its more likely to at least be realistic...you have to realize there is more to it than just tossing a level 10 torque converter in and calling it capable... Its the actual transmission that will fail, they aren't exactly the strongest thing in the world!

You can go for it, but if I had the choice I'd go ahead and swap that grenade out for something a bit more stout. (not saying the 5 speed is much better) its at least got less issue with fluid moving through it!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Stay na


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

TylerO28 said:


> You can go for it, but if I had the choice I'd go ahead and swap that grenade out for something a bit more stout. (not saying the 5 speed is much better) its at least got less issue with fluid moving through it!
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk


I have the choice to swap transmissions now, and I'll have the choice to do so after the car is turbocharged. Don't get me wrong - I am also skeptical that it will hold the power - but there's only one way to find out. Might as well find out the hard way so people in the future have more knowledge as well.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

The thing is must if us have that knowledge you're trying to give us. You're building a problematic setup... Why turbo a car that won't be able to handle it? Why waste time attaining the inevitable (KABOOM!) if you have the option to do a Trans swap, by all means do it! I speak from experience a slipping Trans sucks! But mine has a remedy. 
I can't boost without slipping,I bought a lightweight flywheel with a Fx400 ceramic clutch problem solved! 

Again thus coming back to why build on a bad foundation? do you know how to drive stick? If so why didn't you start with one? If its a Matter of learning then you should... After which you can reliably turbo your car.

As far as some people with autos being successful with stage 2 turbo... if the OEM clutch and fly wheel can't handle it very much, then what makes you think the craptastic torque converter will... Heck that part isn't even serviceable from VW...

Chasing a pipe dream,however I do hope you find your pot-o-gold


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i guess that if reliability isnt very important, then go ahead and give it a try.

i'm always on the hwy, so for me reliability is VERY important. i spend very little time on the city


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