# Correcting (amending) a Carfax Report



## oab97 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Fighting a Carfax Report*

As many of you know, I was recently planning to purchase an Eos until I was shell-shocked by a lowball trade-in offer at the dealer based on a Carfax report on my current car indicating that it suffered frame damage during a relatively minor accident in 2003. If you want the whole story check it out here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3119149
Anyway, I wanted to share with the community that I've decided to try to fight the Carfax report as I do not believe that the frame of the car was ever damaged.
I spoke with the repair facility that fixed the car after the wreck in '03 yesterday. They provided me with copies of the original estimate, work orders, and invoice for the work performed. The lady I worked with said she didn't see anything in the 15 pages of data that indicated frame damage. She also informed me that they don't report data to Carfax so they must have gotten the data from my insurance carrier.

Today, I'm having the frame laser measured to see if it is within spec.

Assuming that the frame is within spec, I will request that the repair facility provide me with a signed statement that no frame damage is or was in evidence. I may also contact my insurance carrier from the time of the accident and see what data they have.

Once I have all my ducks in a row I'll fill out the dispute form I found on the Carfax website and see if I can get the report changed.

This whole Carfax thing seems a lot like dealing with credit reporting agencies. It's incredibly easy for them to put whatever the heck they feel like in their report and a massive headache to get mistakes corrected. Still, for $2K+ in devaluation it's worth the fight.
I’ll let you all know things turnout and perhaps somebody else will benefit from my trailblazing efforts in the future.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Fighting a Carfax Report (oab97)*

I'm not familiar with this 'Carfax' company - never have used their service - but my first thought would be that they probably want to maintain as high a reputation as possible for accuracy. Perhaps try giving them a call (or sending them a letter), if possible, with a copy of the repair invoice for the car, and letting them know that you think their existing report might not accurately reflect things. There is no advantage to them to have an inaccuracy present, and if you can explain things clearly enough, I am sure they would make the required correction.
Michael


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## archiea (Nov 29, 2006)

well.. the good news is that next year, the Eos gets Teak seat skins!! ;D


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## Gadgeteer1066 (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: Fighting a Carfax Report (oab97)*

Do they not have to justify what they say? I would have thought that to claim something that was factually inaccurate would leave them liable and so they should have a pretty good audit trail of where the info came from, i.e. precise details. Once you have this, you can go back to source and challenge them in the same way.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Fighting a Carfax Report (Gadgeteer1066)*

I didn't bring this up earlier, even though I thought about it...but does your Subaru even have a frame?
A 1972 Buick Electra 225 has genuine body-on-frame construction, A 1/2 ton (and heavier) pickup truck also has a frame. Your local police car has a frame...provided its a Ford Crown Victoria (FWD Chevrolet Impalas do not). But most new cars are unibody construction...I don't understand how the idea of "possible frame damage" could even apply in your case.
I think you should also work on figuring out what constitutes a frame (or frame damage) on your Subaru, so you (and we too) know what the deal is. Good topic though...I wish you luck.




_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 7:39 PM 3-16-2007_


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## JustinW (Aug 8, 2003)

Don,
I worked for Carfax in a previous life and am familiar with situations where owners have contested the contents of a report.
The challenge that Carfax faces has to do with the variability of the quality and accuracy of the data it receives from its various sources. Prior to publishing data from a given source, they go through a fairly rigorous testing period where they try to account for as many "issues" presented by the data as possible.
Still, there can be room for questions, and they readily admit as much, hence the form you found that offers owners a way to correct the data.
Here's one hint -- please change your posture. Don't go into this as "I'm fighting the Carfax report", as that approach won't help. I recall some owners getting pretty ridiculous over some data, even in cases where they were wrong and the data presented on the report was correct.
If you take a collaborative approach, and work with the staffer that assists you, you'll make it work for both of you.
There is an established process that they use to evaluate owner claims as far as data conflicts go. It sounds like you've compiled a good bit of documentation (send copies if you can), so you should be in as good a shape as possible.
Clearly, something like a statement from the "repair facility provide me with a signed statement that no frame damage is or was in evidence" will be golden. Working with the facility that did the original post-accident work is key as well in building a solid case for change.
Best wishes on getting this resolved (hey, if it works, we get to welcome you into the EOS Owners' fold!). Let me know if you have any other questions.
Justin


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## JustinW (Aug 8, 2003)

FYI, for those of you in the UK, there are two similar services...I think HPI is one, cannot recall the other. 
http://www.netcar.co.uk/
IIRC vehicle history reports happen with EVERY used car transaction in the UK....this is not true in the US, as some used car dealers / buyers do not use any sort if history service.


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## oab97 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: (JustinW)*

Justin, thanks for the advice. I do not have a negative attitude towards Carfax at this point because I am quite certain that they didn’t make up this data. They got it from somewhere. Most likely the insurance company (State Farm in this case) since the repair facility insists they do not provide data to Carfax.
The only thing negative that I have against Carfax is that they compile data pertaining to one’s personal property and that data is not readily available to the person without paying them a fee. I shouldn’t have to pay to know what kind of data somebody is selling about my property. I have the same issue with credit reporting agencies and companies that sell your personal information to other companies without your knowledge or consent. Enough from the personal privacy soapbox though.
Regarding the unibody question that “Jeremiah” brought up. Like most modern performance oriented vehicles my WRX is a unibody construction. Nonetheless there is still a factory spec for measurements of “frame” components and while I cannot concisely describe what constitutes the “frame” in this case there are industry standards for such things.
Now for the update: I had the frame laser measured today by one of the service providers that framefacts.com recommends. Carfax points to framefacts.com so I figured a report from one of their recommended providers would carry more weight than a random independent frame shop. The folks I used kept the car for about 4 hours and charged me $85. The result: The frame shows no signs of damage and is 100% within factory spec.
Armed with this new information, I returned to the original repair facility and presenting their original estimate, repair invoice, and the fresh frame measurement report, I convinced the collision center manager to draft a short letter clearly stating that their records do not indicate there was ever any frame damage in evidence due to the 11/03 accident.
My next step is to fill out the Carfax form and send them copies of all my data.


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## oab97 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: (oab97)*

FWIW, my guess as to the cause of all this is that somebody at the insurance company either made a type-o or unwittingly construed something in the estimate as indicating frame damage. My leading line-item contenders for the confusion from the estimate are:
1) “Body Pull” – An operation where the body shop yanks on a part to get it back into alignment. This does not necessarily mean the misaligned body part is related to the unibody frame.
2) Two parts that needed to be replaced titled “FRAME CP RAD PANEL LWR” & “FRAME CP LWR RAD”. These parts were $70 & $20 respectively (clearly not the sort of costs associated with frame repair). In actuality, these are brackets that hold the radiator in place. The fact that the word “frame” is in the description is no more germane to frame damage than needing a new license plate frame would be. Still though, if some $6.00/hr data entry person saw those on the estimate they could easily have ticked the box indicating frame damage.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (oab97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JustinW* »_Here's one hint -- please change your posture. Don't go into this as "I'm fighting the Carfax report"... If you take a collaborative approach, and work with the staffer that assists you, you'll make it work for both of you.


_Quote, originally posted by *oab97* »_ I do not have a negative attitude towards Carfax at this point...

Just to keep everything congruent, I have changed the title of the post from the original "*Fighting *a Carfax Report" to "*Correcting *a Carfax Report".


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## JustinW (Aug 8, 2003)

Don, 
Another thing to try -- see if the dealer that initially pulled the report will help you submit the documentation. The dealer may be able to get the paperwork thru the process @ Carfax a little faster, perhaps a lot faster, so it is worth a try.
What's in it for the dealer? Well, they get a great car on trade-in, they get to sell you an Eos, and they create positive buzz in the community. Since *you* have done all of the legwork, the dealer has little else to do but put their name on this info change request and reap the multiple benefits.
And you may then get to put your butt in a new Eos!
That is a win-win.
Justin


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Fighting a Carfax Report (oab97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JustinW* »_...see if the dealer that initially pulled the report will help you submit the documentation. 

That is a really clever idea. The dealer who initially requested the report has even more motivation than you to ensure that the report reflects the condition of the car as accurately as possible. If the car has not had any frame damage, and you and the selling dealer can get this documentation problem corrected, then the selling dealer can offer you more for the trade (simple because he or she can then sell it for more), you can buy the Eos, etc. etc.
I rather doubt that the selling dealer has any hidden agenda to low-ball you on the trade-in. Rather, they are likely looking at what they can get for your trade when they wholesale or retail it, and if the car has a black eye due to the Carfax report, then they have to discount it regardless of the actual condition of the car - simply because the next buyer down the road will look at the same report.
By the same token, if it was discovered that your car was personally autographed by Elvis, the dealer would pay you a premium for it - not because the autograph makes the car any better, simply because it increases the price the dealer can get for it from the next buyer.
Great idea, Justin.
Michael


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## EOSmage (Feb 9, 2007)

I'll sign it... maybe that will help with the resale?








(or maybe it will just cost 30 minutes of a detailer's life to clean it off)


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (EOSmage)*

Don,
After having my PDA Phone fall out of my pocket at a resturant on Saturday evening, and finding no one willing to help me recover it (including local law enforcement, despite that fact that someone made a local call on it later that evening at 3:00am), I am eying your "little guy against the system" story in kindred spirit. I am glad you have decided to do something about getting the cold shoulder and I hope you are successful in your quest. Thanks also for sharing as I am certain this info will benefit others.


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## oab97 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: (jgermuga)*

UPDATE:
It took a while for the repair center manager to get around to writing the promised letter so I didn't get my entire evidence package together until yesterday. I initiated the Carfax amendment process and received a quick reply with instructions. I put together my 30 page package to fax to them and then had a change of heart. I decided to heed Justin’s suggestion that a paying dealer customer might garner a more robust response from the Carfax folks then little ole’ me, the single vehicle owner.
So I took my cleanly organized evidence package to the VW dealer today and asked them if they wanted to fight for my cause in order to secure a sale and they agreed to give it a shot. They copied my 30 pages of data and mentioned something about “getting the Carfax guy in here” so I guess they must have a local Carfax company rep that they work with here in Houston.
The result is that I’m currently in a holding pattern. The dealer is supposed to get back to me after they talk to Carfax. The salemen seemed confident that they’d find a way to make this sale with me happen. I hope the confidence is well founded. If the dealer can’t get the Carfax report straightened out then I will pursue the consumer (as opposed to dealer) process on my own.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (oab97)*

Good luck Don,
You have my support in spirit, I'm pulling for you on this one.
Kevin


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

Don,
If the dealer you mentioned can't get any response, there are a few sales people on the forum who may be willing to take up your case. Thsi would certainly be a win win as the rest fo the forum would get to hear about how they wnet the extra mile while the drama unfolds!!
Good luck


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## oab97 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: (jgermuga)*

Carfax Conclusion….sort of.
WARNING: This is a long complicated post but I want to thorough in my assessment.
I’ll start by saying that my conclusion is that Carfax are a bunch of shyster morons. I know strongly worded opinions like that are not the norm on this very even-keeled forum but I have no other way to describe these fools at this point.
When I first submitted the request to amend the Carfax report I received and email from someone named Kate requesting that I fax all pertinent data to them. I only include this paragraph to establish the name Kate.
The VW dealer spoke with their Carfax dealer rep and he recommended that they fax the data package I had already prepared through the consumer affairs office the same as I would have done myself. So the dealer faxed the package exactly as I had prepared it complete with my coversheet, name, and contact information. This setup a communication triangle where the dealer faxed the data, Carfax responded to me via email, and I scurried off to the dealer again to tell them what Carfax said. This loop occurred several times, was annoying, and I won’t belabor it beyond this sentence. The initial data contained in the fax package was as follows:
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1.	Consumer Data Correction Form (1 pg.)
2.	Copy of Carfax Report this amendment request pertains to (3 pgs.)
3.	Letter from manager of the original repair facility (1 pg.)
4.	Recent (3/17/07) results of frame measurement facility setup and measure of subject vehicle (3 pgs.)
5.	Customer Copy of Body Shop Warranty, Repair Authorization and Direction to Pay, and Work Invoice (5 pgs.)
6.	Collision center “Internal Copy” of work invoice (5 pgs.)
7.	Summary of front end alignment performed by collision center (1 pg.)
8.	Copy of collision center estimate originally submitted to insurance carrier (6 pgs)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The text of #3 was as follows:
_“To whom is may concern, XXX Ford Collision Center records to not show any evidence that frame damage was ever observed or indicated on the 2003 Subaru Impreza VIN#XXX as a result of the accident it was involved in on Nov. 10, 2003. This information is based on review of the original repair estimate XXX Ford Collision Center submitted to the customer’s insurance carrier State Farm, as well as review of the original work invoice detailing the actual work performed.”
Regards,
XXXX, Collision Facility Manager_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carfax sent the following two email responses 45 minutes apart:
_Response (Chrissy)	03/28/2007 02:27 PM
Hi Don,
The data review department has sent me an email. They say that they have review the frame inspection documents that was submitted and they said that it looked like the specs sheet for that vehicle and not all of the actual measurements were on there. Could you please send in the vehicle measurement sheet that shows all of the actual measurements of the vehicle?
thanks,
Chrissy
Response (Chrissy)	03/28/2007 01:44 PM
Hi Don,
The data review department says your fax said it was 30 pages and only 11 came through. Could you please fax the last 19 pages? 
The data review department are reviewing the frame inspection and they are sending this record (11/10/2003) to the source to see if maybe we recorded information in error. Also they can add a new record stating that the new frame inspection reveals no frame damage, so that potential buyers and sellers will know that the vehicle's frame has been reinspected and currently meets manufacturer's specifications. 
In addition to the Consumer Data Correction Forms (located at: http://www.carfax.com/pdf/cri-0305.pdf), the recent inspection being submitted must include:
a) The name of the Dealership or Collision Repair Facility that completed the inspection,
b) The type of method used in the inspection performed - the Manual or Computerized laser measuring system (Visual inspections are not accepted)
c) Inspection results with measurements and a diagram of the vehicle's frame/unibody 
d) The consumer's signature
A new record can be added to the CARFAX Report within 24 to 48 hours of receipt of a recent inspection submission meeting the above criteria. 
Chrissy
Consumer Affairs Analyst_
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some commentary on these responses: In the first email sent (the lower one displayed above) she essentially says I need to send in the EXACT same data that I already sent. The data she’s asking for is exactly what I included in item #4 of my data pack list. The real tip-off of cluelessness here though is that the 2nd email, sent 45 minutes later, says they reviewed the data she just said she didn’t have less than an hour before. HELLO!!!!!????
Some background on the frame inspection I had performed: On the Carfax report for my car it says “Frame damage reported…go to framefacts.com for more information about frame damage” So I went to framefacts.com and it’s essentially a search site that allows you to locate frame inspection facilities that possess the high quality laser frame measurement capability. So just to make sure I was playing Carfax game correctly I went to a framefacts.com recommended Chevrolet dealer and had them perform a setup & measure of my frame ($85).
So based on the 2nd email above, my frame inspection records (from a facility that Carfax essentially pointed me to) weren’t apparently good enough. HELLO AGAIN!!!!!???
Oh, and by the way, what happened to Kate? These new emails are from Chrissy.
In response to these emails I returned to the Chevy dealer that performed the inspection and had them draft and sign the following letter on their company letterhead hoping that this would knock the fuzz off the issue:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_To whom it may concern, XXX Chevrolet has performed a computerized laser measurement and a manual measurement on the subject vehicle (VIN#XXX). We have determined that there are no indications that there were ever any repairs to the frame of this vehicle. The frame is in specification to all factory specifications provided.
Signed XXX_
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based on responses that have since followed I’m not even sure if they read this letter. At this point I also took the time to write a lengthy email response to Carfax explaining the details of the situation and apologizing for the additional confusion I created by using the VW dealer as an intermediary. I never received a response…..at all. The email must have entered a black hole.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The next communication I get from Carfax was a request to fill out a satisfaction survey….HELLO YET AGAIN!!?! How can I evaluate a process that isn’t finished…..morons.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Several days later I received the following email from Carfax:
_“Response (Claudia)	04/02/2007 04:45 PM
Hello Don,
The research process on your issue has concluded. 
CARFAX has verified the frame inspection record with the data source. I recently sent you a separate email with a link to access (which expires in 14 days) and print the CARFAX Vehicle History Report for your review.
We would however be happy to add the results of a recent frame inspection to the CARFAX Report so that potential buyers and sellers will know that the vehicle's frame has been reinspected.
Please fax the Consumer Data Correction Form (http://www.carfax.com/pdf/cri-0305.pdf) and the following to 866-728-6455:
- name of dealership or collision repair facility that completed the inspection,
- type of inspection performed (visual, manual measuring, computerized laser measuring),
- results of inspection (no frame damage, frame damage repaired to manufacturer's specification, minor frame damage, moderate frame damage, severe frame damage),
- signature of inspector. 
A new record will be added to the CARFAX Report within 24 to 48 hours or receipt of the inspection results.
Sincerely,
Claudia, Consumer Affairs Analyst"_
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Where to begin on this one…..
1st Who’s Claudia? What happened to Chrissy and Kate before her? No wonder these people can’t figure out wtf is going on, no one person is around long enough to understand the whole story.
2nd, What good does a new copy of the unchanged Carfax report do me. Gee thanks….
3rd, Who is this mystery data source? The original Carfax report listed the source as “Collision repair Facility”. Well surely it’s not the repair facility that performed the repair. I had three different people at that facility (during 3 entirely different conversations) state without me prompting them that they don’t give data to Carfax. Besides, they wrote me the letter above stating there was no frame damage.
4th, Adding a line to the end of the report that says the frame is ok today doesn’t add value back to my car. Only erasing the erroneous report entry that there was ever was frame damage will get me full value for my car on the market.
5th, If I do want the new record added to the report why do I need to fill out the Data Correction Form (again) and send in the recent frame inspection records (again)? I already faxed them to you idiots TWICE!!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At this point the VW dealer is getting really pissed to. My salesman is joining me in my tirades and the GM can be heard cussing from outside his office. The Carfax rep (at least they have somebody to call which is more than the lowly consumer can get) is unresponsive and doesn’t seem to be able/willing to help fix the situation. We all wonder out loud how Carfax became an industry standard when the consumers and dealers both don’t like them and don’t trust them to provide an accurate report. What a racket these guys having going!
Our next move is to send another fax requesting a copy of Carfax’s inspection record that indicates damage occurred to the frame. This new request generated the following response email from Carfax:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_"Response (Chrissy) 04/05/2007 09:34 AM 
Hi Don,
CARFAX has verified the frame inspection record with the data source. They have indicated that damage was done to the front and left front of the vehicle.
We would however be happy to add the results of a recent frame inspection to the CARFAX Report so that potential buyers and sellers will know that the vehicle's frame has been reinspected.
Please fax the Consumer Data Correction Form (http://www.carfax.com/pdf/cri-0305.pdf) and the following to 866-728-6455:
- name of dealership or collision repair facility that completed the inspection,
- type of inspection performed (visual, manual measuring, computerized laser measuring),
- results of inspection (no frame damage, frame damage repaired to manufacturer's specification, minor frame damage, moderate frame damage, severe frame damage),
- signature of inspector. 
A new record will be added to the CARFAX Report within 24 to 48 hours or receipt of the inspection results.
Chrissy
Consumer Affairs Analyst"_
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well I see Chrissy has returned, Oh Joy! Observations again….
1st, ARE YOU EVEN LISTENEING TO WHAT I’M TRYING TO SAY!!????? I never denied that damage was done to the front and left front of the vehicle. I’m just trying to tell you that it didn’t result in frame damage. (Typing this now makes me want to pull my hair out again)
2nd, maybe if you repeat your worthless offer to add more data instead of correcting erroneous data for a 3rd time I’ll finally realize….IT’S STILL A WORTHLESS OFFER. Nevermind that you already have all the data you’re telling me to send in.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


_Modified by oab97 at 4:49 PM 4-11-2007_


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## oab97 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: (oab97)*

*NOTE: IF YOU GAVE UP AND QUIT READING EARLIER YOU SHOULD START AGAIN NOW*
At this point I’m thinking this is a lost cause without getting a lawyer involved but the VW dealer seems content to press on with the current process. To make matters worse, in the meantime, the car I really want that’s been sitting at the port for a month is now on a dealer showroom and somebody else could buy it. We all know what it takes to order an Eos so letting the perfectly equipped car get away is no little thing. So at this point I got an idea to see if the VW dealer was a gambler.
I decided that instead of getting a lawyer, an ulcer, and many headaches trying to get back $2500 of value on my Subaru, I’d be willing to take a $1000 hit and be done with the whole thing. I had initially determined that I would not accept less that $11K for my trade-in. The dealer was prepared to meet this number if we could get the frame damage cleared from the Carfax record. With the damage record in place they wouldn’t give me more than $8500. I told them that in light of the arrival of “my” car, I would be willing to accept $10K for my current car. I would continue to work with them to get the Carfax record amended but they would be taking on the risk/reward of that effort. If they could get the record cleared then they just made an extra $1000 on the deal. If they can’t then they don’t make as much money as they would have. Thankfully, they accepted my offer.
I picked up my new Island Grey/Titan Black 2.0T Sport, 18”, Dynaudio, DSG eos last Thursday. The first 250 miles have been wonderful!!!








We’ve already initiated the next round of emails & faxes with Carfax. I sent them a 2nd email reply to one of their emails and again it appears to have vanished into a black hole and there has been no response. The VW folks left another message with their Carfax Regional Account Manager. And the game goes on. Only now I don’t have to lose sleep about it. I can fall asleep thinking about 75 degrees, puffy white clouds, open roads, and no top on the Eos.
Nonetheless, I’ve lost $1000 due to Carfax ineptitude. I have not a single good thing to say about them and nothing I’ve read anywhere on the internet has anything good to say to them either. I will be posting a list of links to Carfax news articles, lawsuit information, and customer complaint sites to this thread shortly. Then I will be posting links to this thread on several other internet communities I’m a part of. For every 1 person like me who’s had unfair information on their Carfax report, there are probably 8 people who bought a car based on a “clean” Carfax report only to find out later that the car had been flooded, had a salvage title, or had been in a major accident. This company publishes consistently inaccurate reports and has somehow convinced the auto community that they’re actually worth something. They have proven to me that they are dishonest, disorganized, and it sickens me that they are not held accountable for their poor business practices.
One final thing for the record, although I have allowed myself to vent openly in this thread, my dealings with Carfax have never strayed one hair from completely professional and polite. I took the cooperative approach suggested earlier in the thread and put together a thorough and complete data package to support my case. It just doesn’t matter with these people.


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: (oab97)*

Wow, that a riot drama you had been through. Nonetheless, congrats on your new ride! Which dealership did you end up getting that car from? I got mine through Momentum VW at Kirby.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (darien)*

WOW is right...... What a bunny bop you went through.
Great to hear you got your car, and that the VW dealer was willing to work with you.
Kevin


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## jdl (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: (oab97)*

Have you filed a formal complaint with the BBB (Better Business Bureau) 
bbb.org
and the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair)? 
http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/stdhome.asp
Or similar organization for your state. 
Suggesting to Carfax, or any other organization, that your next step will BBB, BAR, 
or any other "Action Line" in the paper or TV can have a really positive effect on your
communications. Provided you are in the right. 
Jack


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

Don,
Congrats on the new ride!
It still sickens me just reading your story. I agree they should be held liable for their actions and ineptitude. Hopefully enough affected people will hear about it and a class action suit will be put together.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (oab97)*

Hi Don:
Thanks ever so much for taking the time to document your rather horrific experience with Carfax. That sure doesn't sound very good - I am amazed that a company that bases their entire reputation on accuracy would be so (apparently) incompetent. I mean, Carfax has nothing to gain or lose based on the value of your car... thus, the only reason I can think of that explains the difficulties you went through is incompetence or indifference.
I'm happy to hear that your VW dealer stuck with you through the whole process and did everything they could to help you out. That is the only silver lining in the cloud.
Although I am generally dead-set against the whole American philosophy of "sue them", I think that this might be one of those rare situations where it would make sense to sue. But, rather than going for $1,000,000 in pain and suffering (the normal American Way), my suggestion is that you go to your local small claims court and file a claim for exactly $1,000, which is what the whole problem cost you in lost resale value. My guess is that once Carfax reads over the documentation (this time their lawyers will read it over, not some junior call center employee), they will quite quickly realize that they have screwed up and that the most expedient way out of things is to cut you a cheque for the $1,000 you lost. Heck, it would cost them far more than $1,000 to send someone to contest the claim in your local small claims court.
Michael


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## [email protected] (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Congratulations on your new Eos! That was quite a hassle, and I'm also very glad your dealership went up to bat for you. Customer satisfaction rarely exists like that now. 
I personally hate carfax. I get customers all the time that freak out when getting a pre owned car if it doesnt have a carfax. I want to knock them over their head and make them take the car to a mechanic and have it inspected. carfaxes are worthless IMO.


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## oab97 (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks everybody for the kind words.

_Quote, originally posted by *darien* »_Which dealership did you end up getting that car from?

Volkswagen of Clear Lake, and they have been very helpful through the whole process.

_Quote, originally posted by *jdl* »_Have you filed a formal complaint with the BBB (Better Business Bureau) bbb.org and the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair)?

No, but it's a very good idea. I'll will wait to see how things play out completely first though. Don't forget that I'm still working with the dealer to get Carfax to change the report. We've had another round of fiasco since I typed my long write-up. I'll post an update when I get a chance.

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I think that this might be one of those rare situations where it would make sense to sue.

The main reason I agreed to eat the $1000 instead of fighting for the whole $2500 was because I don't need the headache. However, if memory serves, small claims court is less involved and easier than filing a formal civil suit. I don't even think I'd need to get a lawyer. That's definitely something that might be worth looking into, but it would still require a lot of extra legwork. I'd need a statement from the VW dealer and likely at least one other source to establish the true value of the WRX and even then it might be hard to really nail down since things like Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds, and NADA wouldn't be valid since the car has been in a wreck. Still, it's probably worth a few hours to investigate my options. It's not like $1000 is a small amount of money (at least not in my household).


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (oab97)*

You should write BBB, and respond to every Carfax letter that goes through BBB. If Carfax responds and you don't make it clear that it hasn't been solved at all, the BBB will report that Carfax has had complaints but has responded to them (which sounds good, but often means they just keep writing back "no we didnt")
You do NOT need a lawyer for small claims court.
I also hate that you have to sue (or threaten it), but often companies will not take action if they think something else is CHEAPER/EASIER. Carfax figures that it is cheaper and easier to ignore you. If paying becomes cheaper, they will prbably do that.
Some big flaws by manufacturers aren't recalled until it becomes too expensive to pay off all of the claims. They figure thatt it is cheaper to irritate some people and pay or fight claims, that to do a recall. You have to change the economics to change the behavior.
William


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