# Front Fog Lights, European Light Switch, Coding of Phaeton Lighting



## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Fog Lights*

Michael,
Do you think there is a way to alter the programing to allow the fog lights to come back on when you swith from high to low beam


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Fog Lights (fly4food)*

The short answer is 'No'.
The long answer has its basis in legislation governing use of fog lights in Europe and North America - different legislation in both places, but with similar objectives.
In Europe, it is a legislative safety standard that fog lights switch off when high beams are turned on. This is to ensure that the driver's eye focuses at infinity, rather than on items perhaps 5 to 10 feet in front of the car that are illuminated by the fog light. The idea behind this - I think it is a very sensible idea - is that if the driver has switched on the high beam lights, then there obviously is no fog remaining - hence no need for the fog lights - and the driver wants to look for items that are a long way away. Leaving the short-range fog lights on in these circumstances would be counterproductive and impair long distance vision.
Fog lights will come back on when low beam headlights are re-selected on some VW products that use a mechanical light switch (e.g. Golf and Jetta IV with a European light switch). The Phaeton does not use a conventional switch for fog light activation (front or rear) - it uses a momentary contact switch that sends a signal to the central electrical controller. From the point of view of European drivers, it is an advantage to have the fog lights turn off for good whenever high beams are used, because you will get a ticket in Europe for having fog lights on if there is no fog present. 
In North America, there are two different sets of regulations, American and Canadian. American regulations forbid operation of fog lights without the low beam lights also being on - which, in my opinion, pretty much makes the fog lights useless. I have never turned my foglights on. Canadian regulations allow the use of foglights by themselves, without low beam headlights (as they are intended to be used) - but because in North America we don't have a main light switch position that allows us to illuminate the marker lights ('parking lights') along with the fog lights, we are caught in a Catch-22 situation.
It is possible to recode a Phaeton to allow use of fog lights only (along with the marker lights), but that requires installation of a 4 position main light switch, such is standard on the European Phaetons. I am in the process of looking into this now.
Michael


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## BPVWPv8 (Dec 2, 2004)

*Re: Fog Lights (PanEuropean)*

michael:
i understand the explanation, one you have provided us before. what i guess is still bothering me is that my former bmw and mb both were designed to keep the fog lights on after switching from high beams back to low beams. so even though the europeon regs call for one configuration, we are in the us; and since vw had to do so much to met us regs, why not include this too? after all, there are goodies the eruos get that we don't.
bob


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: Fog Lights (BPVWPv8)*

I know the TOUAREG can use only foglights and parking lights-but you have to install the European headlight switch.
Also, you can VAG the headlights on the TOUAREG to allow foglights and high beam use. Couldn't something like this also be done on the Phaeton?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Fog Lights (BPVWPv8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BPVWPv8* »_...my former BMW and mb both were designed to keep the fog lights on after switching from high beams back to low beams. 

You are correct in your recollections. My 2002 VW Golf IV also allowed the same thing. But your BMW and MB, and my Golf, all used conventional mechanical switches to actuate the foglights. Our Phaetons do not use a mechanical switch, and there is no 'latching' behavior associated with the push-button for the front fog lights. For this reason (no latching behavior), the front fog lights will not come back on after they have been switched off by the central electrical controller, as a result of that controller recognizing that the high beams have been activated.

_Quote, originally posted by *TREGinginCO* »_Also, you can VAG the headlights on the TOUAREG to allow foglights and high beam use. Couldn't something like this also be done on the Phaeton?

From strictly a technical point of view, yes, it probably could be done, because the two vehicles use very similar central electrical controllers. Whether or not the engineers who did the setup work (programming work) on the Phaeton central electrical controller provided this capability is not known. My guess is that they probably did not provide that capability. I don't know of any jurisdiction in the world where it is legal to have more than four lamps illuminated at the front of a vehicle for on-road use. The Touareg is an off-road vehicle, so VW probably provided the capability to have all 6 lamps illuminated at once for off-road purposes only - for example, Paris to Dakar rallies, stuff like that.
Michael


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

I may have some good news, but need someone else with a VAG-COM to verify that it works on their car. My car's fog lights stay on independent of switching the high beams.
When I was fooling around with Controller 17 (Instruments) trying to get rid of the chime for key in the ignition, I entered a value that nobody had documented.
My original coding was 7221. But by changing it to 7021, I got rid of the chime AND the fog light stays on or off independent of the high beams. Basically this sets the country code to "0" in the 2nd position (a car without a country?). Actually, my coding is now 5021, because I also turned the seat belt warning sound off.
Can somebody else try this to see it it works on their Phaeton?
- Dave


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Fascinating find, Dave - I will check it out on my Phaeton within the next hour and report back.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Again David:
I checked out the xx0xx coding for country code, and found the same thing as you did - the fog lights will remain on when high beams are selected on. I don't know what other behavior (if any) of the car is affected by this change in setting - I think it will require a fair amount of observation to determine if all the 'desired' chimes (e.g. headlights left on, etc.) still function. I guess 0 means 'no country assigned'.
The only concern I would have about this is the legality of operating with more than 4 lights illuminated at the front of the car, and the possible negative effects (mentioned earlier) of bright illumination at the front of the car (from the fogs) when you have your high beams on and want to focus your vision at infinity. This might not be too much of a problem for the twenty-somethings, but most of us here are probably past our mid forties and don't have the same ability to quickly change our eye focal point that we used to have.
I wonder, also, if this change in coding affects the behavior of any other lights on the car? I checked the valet button, with the controller 9 setting at 3, and it turned on the rear fog icon, but the rear fog lamp itself did not illuminate.
Michael


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Michael:
I've had the 5021 coding in use since December, and I have discovered no ill effects. ( Of course I don't have a rear foglight to test against, so I don't know what the coding might do to it.)
Until I saw this thread, I just figured the fog lights were SUPPOSED to work independently of the high beam operation on the Phaeton.








- Dave


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Ah, OK, that is great information, thanks for letting us know, Dave.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I changed mine to 5021 and it didn't work for me. Just to make sure , I turned my light switch fully to the right, pressed the foglight button, I saw them come on, then I turned on the high beams and the foglights went off. They did not come back on upon returning to low beam. I guess you're just lucky on that change. I returned my code back to 5121 where it was. That code (5121) gets rid of seat belt chime, key in ignition chime, and the unneccessary chime that lights are left on WHILE the engine is running. It still reminds you that the lights are left on if you are trying to exit the car with the engine off and key out of switch (that's when you need the warning).
David


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David, you might have to let the car go through a power down / power up cycle before the change has any effect.
Your car is virtually identical to mine - for that reason, I am a bit surprised that you did not have the same results.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I tried again not only with code 5021 but with 7021 as well and went through 2 or 3 cycles (actually drove the car somewhere) and neither code would work to keep foglights on for me. As soon as I went for the high beam, the foglights turned off and never came back on until I pressed the foglight button again. I tried with the light switch both in the "auto" and "full on" positions. However, both times I did this , it was still full daylight outside but I figured with it in the manually on position it wouldn't matter. The fact that they came on should have been enough to judge the decision.
This raises another point. Seems to me that a few months ago I read where the foglights would not come on at all if the light switch was in the 2nd position (auto) while it was still daylight. That the only time you could get foglights on was while the switch was in the 3rd most right position or in position 2 only when it was dark. Mine works in both poition 1 and 2 anytime. So did recoding it give me at least that extra bonus?
David
P.S. The fact that I can't get my foglights to stay on is no bother to me. I really don't care about that . I was just testing it to see what happens. It is puzzling to me why it doesn't work though. We are talking about the two lower foglights in the front of the car, aren't we? I am unaware of a rear foglight. Do I have one? If so, how does that get turned on?


_Modified by dcowan699 at 1:31 PM 4-1-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
Hang in there three weeks, and we can compare our two cars in person at the Auburn Hills get-together. I just received confirmation today from Diane at Phaeton Customer Care that the weekend of April 23 and 24 is good for the staff at VW.
I think all of us do have a rear foglight in our Phaetons, but it is not 'enabled' (via software). There is a discussion about the rear foglight at this URL: Enabling (or retrofitting) a rear foglight on a North American Phaeton. It might be a blessing in disguise that the rear foglight is not enabled. I drove behind another Phaeton for the first time last week, and the rear lights (just the normal rear lights, the clearance lights and turn signals) are so bright they verge on being annoying. I would hate to imagine what a rear foglight would be like - apparently it has three times the brightness of the standard rear clearance light.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

That's great news about the date of the GTG. My wife was holding her breath about how to arrange my dental office schedule. I will take off Monday as well that weekend so that I don't have to rush out on everyone Sunday. 

David


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## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I have the same behavior on my car as dcowan699 after changing to 5021, fog lights do not stay on after high beam.


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (fly4food)*

Another change I made is disabling of the DRLs. Perhaps that's also necessary to make the fog lights work independent of high beams. I also set my door locks to NOT lock automatically.
For whatever it's worth, I reposted all of my controllers and codes in the thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1902140. Take a look and see what else might be different in the coding of our cars, since "5021" works for me.
- Dave


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

I have never been interested in turning off my DRLs but I will check your theory in a while (charging up my laptop battery at the moment) . I will post later what I find.
David


_Modified by dcowan699 at 9:41 PM 4-4-2005_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

BINGO !!!!!
Dave,
Turning off the DRLs is the answer to the question. I turned my DRLs off, switched to code 5021 (from 5121) and the foglights do stay on even after switching back and forth from high to low beam. I may just keep it this way and see how I like it. Another interesting point about this is that other car brands do have foglights that come back on immediately after returning to low beam . But in this case, they stay on ALL the time----high or low beam. I've never seen that scenario before.
Thanks to Dave for the extra info and thanks to Michael for assimilating the codes for us all in a concise thread!








David


_Modified by dcowan699 at 8:28 PM 4-4-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_ Michael, did you turn off your DRLs lately?

No, I never turn them off unless I am working on the car and want to avoid draining the battery. Small kids (the kindergarten to Grade 4 crowd) are so used to cars having lights on the front of them, they only look for the lights, not for the car. So, for safety reasons - theirs, not mine - I won't turn my DRLs off.
The situation may be different in the USA - in Canada, DRLs have been mandatory on all cars and trucks sold since 1992. It is very, very rare to see a car without headlights on. Even the folks who drive old beaters turn their lights on manually when they start their cars.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Now that you have the DRLs back on , are the foglights remaining on as you switch back and forth? If so, we still have a mystery on our hands.
As far as a law, it's not mandatory to have DRLs here but they are becoming more and more common with modern vehicles. Some make it user friendly to turn them off by the operator at will.
David


_Modified by dcowan699 at 9:04 PM 4-4-2005_


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## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

I just turned off the DRL on my car and, you guessed it, the fog lights are working.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (fly4food)*

Phillipe,
Glad to hear that. I'm caught now between situations: Do I want the DRLs for safety or continuous foglights? In the practical world, I guess I should go back to DRLs because of rainy days when it can get pretty dark and with a black car..... you see where I'm going, I guess. 
In most states now, you have to have your lights on during rain and this would satisfy that requirement of course.
Cheers,
David C.


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## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Tough choice, I am not sure wich way I will go.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (fly4food)*

I turned my DRLs back on. It was the challenge that counted. Caught the fish, threw it back in








I feel that the safety factor was more important and I have probably used my fogs only twice since I've owned my car and I only turned them on to test how effective they are.
David C.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (fly4food)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fly4food* »_Tough choice, I am not sure which way I will go.









Until I can figure out a way to make the fog lights work by themselves - meaning, without the main headlights on at all - I see no use whatsoever for the fog lights, they are nothing more than a decoration on the front of the car.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Some additional information related to the front fog lights on the Phaeton:

In order to enable independent operation of the front fog lights without the headlights turned on, a 4 position lightswitch needs to be installed. This switch has the following positions:

1) Everything off
2) Clearance lights (side markers) only on
3) Automatic headlamp control (tunnel symbol)
4) Headlamps on.

Phaetons that do not have automatic headlamp control will need to be upgraded from the existing two position switch (positions 1 and 4) to a switch that has 1, 2, and 4.

Once this has been done, then the front foglights can be operated by themselves, as long as the side marker lights are turned on. This is standard practice in every country in the world, except for the USA (and, in the case of VW of A, Canada as well, because it is considered a subsidiary of the USA market).

Below are pictures of the 4 position switch, and also of the part numbers for this switch. I have ordered the switch from my Swiss dealer, and will provide the "how to" details later, when I install it.

Michael
*ROW (Rest of World) specification light switch*









*Parts Diagram for above light switch*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I purchased a 4 position light switch at my Swiss VW dealer, and fitted it to my North American specification Phaeton. I can now use the front fog lights by themselves (that is, without the headlights on), which is the only practical way to use foglights if it is foggy out.

The retrofit process was pretty easy: Remove the existing light switch, install the switch with the additional position, recode the J519 Central Electrical Controller (address 09) to indicate that the vehicle is "Rest of World", rather than North America or Scandinavia.

The only problem with this modification is that if you want to be able to use the foglights by themselves, you have to give up both the Daylight Running Light (DRL) function and the Valet Lock function. If you leave the Phaeton coded to North America (00002 for J519 coding), then the DRL's remain on all the time, which means that you don't get any difference in functionality with the 4 position switch.

If you code the J519 to 00003 (rest of world), then you lose the DRL's - not a good thing for safety - and you also lose the valet lockout function. The button to the right of the lightswitch, when pressed, will illuminate the rear foglight icon on the instrument panel, but it won't illuminate the rear foglights, because North American Phaetons don't have the capability to illuminate the rear foglight (more info about that here: Enabling (or retrofitting) a rear foglight on a North American Phaeton).

So - the bottom line on this modification is that if you live in an area that has frequent fog, and you want to be able to use the front fogs without the headlights turned on - but with the clearance lights turned on - then you have to give up the DRL's and give up the valet lockout. I guess it's an individual choice, you pick whatever is most important to you.

Below are some photos that illustrate the whole process.

Michael


*Purchase a 4 position light switch in Europe* (or, 3 position if you do not have automatic light illumination in tunnels)









*Remove the existing light switch*
This is not difficult, the light switch is a friction fit, use a VW trim removal tool to get it out.










*Plug in the new light switch*
Only one connector, it's pretty simple.









*What it now looks like*








*What the result is, if you put the switch in the 'clearance lights' position and press the front fog button*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_Michael - Is there some way I can get you to assist me in ordering the 4 way headlight switch....

Yes. As soon as I get to England in mid to late August, I will try to find a VW dealer there who is willing to ship parts to Phaeton owners in North America. If I am successful, I'll set up a protocol and publish it here. I will have NO involvement in this process once it is established - I'll just set it up as a courtesy to the forum members.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_I just ordered 2700K 98% Fill Xexon fill bulbs for the Fogs along with 6700K for the High Beams.

Don,
Please be *very* careful with these bulbs. I have had many many instances of where the installation of "hotter" bulbs has caused wiring harnesses to melt in other VW models. Not only is the physical temperature created by the bulb an issue, but the power demands of the aftermarket bulbs overwhelm the wiring. Not something covered by warranty and historically very expensive to repair.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Just a note to say I picked up a passenger side grill piece that fits around the fog lamp. I have both the black egg crate part and the body color painted horizontal part that fits the opening surrounding the fog lamp and crossing over to the center of the car. 
There's an oil to water "can cooler" buried inside the grill behind the fog lamp. I have that too. 
Also have the two large radiators and the plastic radiator holder, one horn and a luna blue right front fender in good shape. 
Somebody hit a curb hard...
(Parts courtesy of the local friendly body shop.) Will take photos if anyone needs to see different views of the parts. I would love to get my hands on a slightly wrecked headlight.



_Modified by Paldi at 9:30 PM 7-29-2005_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_1. The temperature I am referring to is color temperature ie. 7000K Bluish, and the 2700K Yellowish. These not being related to lamp surface temperature.
2. The watts drawn by the bulbs I select are the same as stock. ie. the Fog is still 55watt and the High Beam is still 65 watt so the power draw is unchanged leaving the fuses, wiring, switches handling the same loads.

And the temperature I'm referring to is the actual heat generated by the bulb while in operation, not the color of the light output. 
I'd want to make sure the aftermarket bulbs I'm putting in have an *iron clad* warranty against damage to factory equipment when installed on your vehicle. I would think Phaeton wiring harnesses to be very costly...
Caveat Emptor.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

I'm interested in changing the high beam bulbs as well as I dislike the color difference with the low beams. Can you give details as to the specs or part numbers for the bulbs, where you got them and the difficulty level for installing them? I don't have access to my car at the moment to look in the manual. Thanks.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Yes, he does. But I don't see an item pointing to this mod. Give me a hint.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_...I don't see an item pointing to this mod. Give me a hint.




Correct, bulb replacement has never been discussed here, at least, not to my knowledge.

I'm not much concerned by the appearance of the high beam headlights (the two large inboard lamps) - the only time they are ever turned on is when I am out in the woods. In other words, they exist purely for function, and if the light that came out was pink and green, I could care less, as long as it illuminated Bambi the deer as I zipped along a back country road.

The two lights that might be worth looking more closely at are the 'city lights' - the tiny W5W bulbs that sit at the bottom of the high beam assembly and are illuminated at all times when the low beam headlight is turned on. The specification for the M1 and M3 city light bulbs (from the owner manual, parts catalog, and repair manual) is "Bulb 12 V, W 5W Xenon blue". So, it looks like VW has paid some attention to trying to get the apparent colour temperature of this little bulb close to the apparent colour temperature of the low beam bulb. I don't think they have been particularly successful, though. 

This might be due to the difference in how these lamps are used in Europe vs. North America - in Europe, people leave them on (one side only) as marker lights when they park on unlit roads, or, the city lights are the only lights illuminated in the main headlamp assembly when the front fog lights are being used. In France, it is still common for folks to drive around with the city lights (only) illuminated if they are driving in the center of a city that is well lit by streetlights. So, European drivers generally want the city light to look like a conventional halogen bulb. In NAR, no-one uses single side parking lights, and we cannot turn off the low beam lamp when we are using fogs (without modifying things), so, our concern tends to be getting the city light to match the apparent colour temperature of the low beam xenon light.

I purchased a set of Philips "Blue Vision" W5W lights at my VW dealer in Switzerland last month, but have not had the time to try refitting them. It is a fairly time-consuming job to remove the headlight assembly from a Phaeton, and I have had much less time at home in Toronto that I thought I would (5 days out of the last 6 weeks, and tomorrow I leave for Africa). When I get back, if I have the time, I'll stuff these bulbs in and see if it results in a more attractive appearance. It's really hard to know how things will turn out with bulbs - sometimes you get exactly the result you are after (city light matches low beam xenon light), other times, you wind up looking like a 18 year old who did the cheapest and nastiest mod he could to the old Accord his mother handed down to him.

Michael


*Philips Aftermarket City Light Bulbs*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
My experience with front light bulbs has been that you can't really look at the bulb in isolation, you need to see what the bulb looks like when it is installed in the lamp housing. In other words, there are all sorts of other factors, such as luminosity, reflector characteristics, and colour of the surrounding bezel and the plastic cover on the front of the lamp that affect what the end result will look like. A bulb that 'looks great' (definition = closely matches the colour temperature of the main low beam bulb) in one lamp housing might look awful in a different lamp housing.
I chose the above pictured bulb to start my experiments with for two reasons: *1)* I used the same bulb as the city light in my Golf, when I retrofitted OEM xenon lights to my Golf, and it looked fine, and ; *2)* It was cheap ($10 for the pair), easily available at my VW dealer, and the same spec as the existing bulb.
It might turn out that it looks great, it might turn out that it looks exactly the same as the existing (OEM) city light, or it might turn out that it looks awful. At least the amount of money at risk is pretty minimal. The time factor (probably about 2 hours work to re/re the headlight assemblies) is the real issue here.
Can you let me know where your previous posts are, and I will merge this thread into the one you already contributed to? I must have been in some remote corner of the world when this subject last came up, because I don't recall seeing any discussion of it before.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
Just to provide a bit of clarification about that list of bulb types that you posted - the rear brake lights, marker lights, turn signals, rear fog lamps, and CHMSL (Center High Mount Stop Light) are all illuminated by LED's that are integral to the lamp assembly and cannot be changed or replaced. There is a bit more detail about the construction of the rear lamps used on the Phaeton at this post: Enabling (or retrofitting) a rear foglight on a North American Phaeton.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_I also lack significant metric tools.

Hi Don:
For the type of work that we enthusiasts do, you really don't need that many metric tools. My suggestion is that you pick up a set of 1/4 inch or 3/8 inch drive sockets from 6mm to 14 mm, and a set of very high quality Torx drivers that include, at a minimum, numbers 8, 10, 15, 20, and 25. If you have a choice betwen a Torx driver with a long or a short shaft, buy the shorter of the two (but not a stubby). That should be enough to handle 99% of what you ever want to do.
When you are buying the Torx drivers, buy the highest quality drivers you can find - the cheap ones will strip really quickly, especially the smaller sizes. I use Snap-on Torx drivers, but get my sockets from less expensive suppliers. I have a full set of metric wrenches, but have never needed to use one on my VW - it seems I am always using the socket wrenches instead.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_"I'm not much concerned by the appearance of the high beam headlights (the two large inboard lamps) - the only time they are ever turned on is when I am out in the woods. In other words, they exist purely for function, and if the light that came out was pink and green, I could care less, as long as it illuminated Bambi the deer as I zipped along a back country road."

I'm not concerned about the appearance of the high beams to others at all. I drive quite a bit at night and find it disconcerting that when I change to the high beams the color and quality of the light changes fairly dramatically. If I can correct that with a relatively simple mod, I would. Does changing the high beam bulb require the two hour work with the headlight assemblies? I don't have access to my manual to check for myself as my car is in the shop. If so, I'll skip it. If not, I'd like to try one of the whiter (and a nice bonus would be brighter) bulbs.
Most of the mods I consider are to improve functional areas of the car. I'm not too interested in the cosmetic as I find the car quite adequate in that regard..
_Formatting corrected, text unchanged - Michael_


_Modified by PanEuropean at 2:24 PM 9-7-2005_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_If not, I'd like to try one of the whiter (and a nice bonus would be brighter) bulbs.

Gonna reissue my blanket warning about non-spec bulbs and burning out wiring harnesses. I have seen way too many bulbs changed out only to cause sockets, assemblies and/or wiring harnesses to melt or short out. Please be careful. These repairs are expensive.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Thanks for the warning. I stick to the same wattage. I would assume that would be safe.


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

As you already know wattage and lumens are not interchangeable. This will provide some info.
http://led.linear1.org/how-do-...ens/1/
Additionally wattage can be constant and the lumen's change dramatically, due to many factors. The gas surrounding the filament is the main item as it controls the heat transfer from the filament and hence it's temperature and color and brightness. Also as you already know general warnings are generalizations and specifics rule the item. I recommend that if in doubt check with the many specialists in the arena, including the bulb supplier. 
As long as the fuse is not changed the wireing load has the same protection limit. It would be very difficult to even make wireing that would burn out at 5 to 10 watts or increase temperatur much with added 5 or so watts distributed over the length of the wire. Suggest a look at the wire gage in a 1 amp fuse. 



_Modified by GripperDon at 4:19 PM 9-8-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_ ...If not, I'd like to try one of the whiter (and a nice bonus would be brighter) bulbs...

One general warning that has to be kept in mind when installing aftermarket bulbs that are sold as 'performance' bulbs (e.g. with claims of being brighter) - often, the bulb manufacturer simply winds the filament on a smaller mandrel than is normally used. The result is a more tightly focused beam of light, which then scores higher when tested for 'brightness', because more of the light is focused in one spot - the meter.
That may or may not be what you are looking for, especially in a high beam bulb that is intended to be used as a floodlight, not a spotlight. The only aftermarket bulb manufacturers that I have found trustworthy are the major name brands - Philips, Osram, Sylvania - and even then, you have to do the research on their web site to see exactly what it is that is different about the specific bulb they are hyping.
Any bulb that is made in Asia, or - much, much worse - has Asian language characters on the package needs to be avoided like the plague. As soon as you touch the package, you will get snake oil all over your fingers.
Michael


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

On my TOUAREG, I changed out my halogen (flash-to-pass) bulbs from the yellowish looking bulbs to the Hoen Titanium Xenonmatch bulbs and they are and exact match for the xenons. I'm very impressed with them. 
Another TOUAREG owner tried them out and the results were so good, Hoen uses his pictures for their ad page on the internet.
Check it out: http://www.hoen-usa.com/ti.htm
I would post pictures of the results on my TOUAREG.... but I still don't know how to post pictures here.










_Modified by TREGinginCO at 1:03 PM 9-7-2005_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_Cris wattage and lumens are not interchangeable. This will provide some info.
Additionally wattage can be constant and the lumen's change dramatically. The light flux from the lamp is determined by a number of things, wattage being only one. The gas surrounding the filament is the main item as it controls the heat transfer from the filament and hence it's temperature and color and brightness. General warning are generalizations and specifics rule the item. I recommend that if in doubt check with the many specialists in the arena, including the bulb supplier. 
As long as the fuse is not changed the wireing load has the same limit. It would be very difficult to even make wireing that would burn out at 5 to 10 watts. Suggest you look a the wire gage in a 1 amp fuse. 

Don,
While I certainly appreciate your electrical expertise, I'm sure you'll agree there's a gap between theoretical engineering and practical application. 
However, it has been my experience that the indiscreet swapping of bulbs has led to harness failures in more than one VW product -- unforunately, this being one of the idiosyncracies that makes a VW a VW. It has also been my experience that this sort of damage is not covered by VW's warranty due to the installation of an aftermarket part. 
Should you choose to go forward with this mod, be advised that any subsequent pleas for warranty consideration on any related parts may fall on deaf ears -- something I'd hate to see happen to any of the owners here. 

_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_Thanks for the warning. I stick to the same wattage. I would assume that would be safe.

Wattage and amp draw are only two variables in the equation. You must also be mindful of the heat generated by the bulb and the subsequent effect on surrounding materials.
In the end, while I remain one of the more mod-friendly Service Advisors out there, this is one change I strongly recommend against.


_Modified by chrisj428 at 3:19 PM 9-7-2005_


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

FYI... the Hoen bulbs are 70w and at least in the TOUAREG, the wiring harness is designed to handle a full halogen light pkg (which comes on the base TOUAREG) and both lights combine draw 110w of power on each side (55w p/bulb).
So, with the xenon pkg and the only changes being the ballasts to power the bulbs... there's still less power draw. The xenons (i'm told) draw 35w of power, so with a 70w halogen bulb in there, you're still only drawing 105w.... which is less than the standard halogen headlight package. 
Plus, I'm told most European vehicles are running 70w bulbs anyway, so there's no risk of heat or relflector damage. I've had my bulbs in for 5-months.... no issues at all (fingers crossed).
I'm speculating here, but I can't imagine the Phaeton headlight wiring harness being very different --- if at all -- than what's in the TOUAREG. I'm betting Michael would be able to confirm that.



_Modified by TREGinginCO at 3:58 PM 9-7-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
I presume you are referring to the photos on the first page of this thread (here), before the discussion veered off to light bulbs.
My guess is that the 531 part number is the one you want. I had a look at all my original photos, and only about 40 seconds elapsed between the photo showing how to insert the trim removal tool, and the photo showing me holding the switch with the cable still attached. So, I am guessing that you are looking at the original North American switch when you see the 431 part number. You could confirm this by checking with the staff at your VW dealer, or popping out your existing switch and checking the PN on the back of it.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon) 9005XSST Silverstar High Performance Lighting: the whitest and brightest Halogen*

I could not find the 9005XSST available for purchase even though, as you indicated in your post, Sylvania lists it as an appropriate upgrade to the OEM bulb. This bulb is supposed to better match the HID low beam in color and as a bonus, be brighter w/o producing more heat. The only known downside is the shorter lifespan, but I could live with that as long as replacement is reasonably quick.
So I emailed Sylvania and was told that, "Thank you for your inquiry. Part 9005XSST is not yet available to purchase. The release of part 9005XSST has been postponed. Part 9005XSST is now scheduled to be released sometime in the fall. The exact release date has not yet been provided."
I guess we have to look for another brand or wait.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Thanks for checking out the bulb # for me. That matches up with the Sylvania Cool Blue bulb that they list as a possible replacement. I'll decide whether to go for that or wait for the 9005XSST SilverStar. It worries me that it appears difficult to get the bulb out. Doesn't bode well for on the road emergency replacement. I'm going to try it myself on a dry run.


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## meinhib (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hello Sir, I was wondering if you had any info about the euro style light switch, If so I would like to order the part as well...


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (meinhib)*

I got mine from Spockcat good price, quick service. I have the 4 position switch installed, Did not take long to get it either. Sure does the trick, I love it. About $90 and $6 for shipment as I remember it all


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Anyway to get these photos rehosted and working again? I'm interested in having my fog lights come on independant of the headlights. I'd like to have the as park lights when driving just before it gets dark. It's an NA thing.


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (derrickonline)*

Is it this one your looking for,


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (plastech)*

Thanks for the pic!
Just to confirm all I need is that swtch since I already have my DRLs programmed to off?
Why does that switch have two foglight buttons?? I assume one is for the rear and the other for the front?
I assume it won't matter that I don't have rear foglights (i.e. no fault codes)?


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: (derrickonline)*

If you want to add rear foglight functionality, this switch is a crucial component. Drop in factory replacement for your US switch and accomodates the automatic headlight feature.
http://oempl.us/index.php?main...d=148


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## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*FV-QR*

We have one switch in stock.
We also have a set of EU Phaeton tails sitting here that we'd LOVE to get rid of. If anyone wants to add a rear foglight to their car, give us a call and we'll deal hard on the price....


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (OEMpl.us)*

Still have set of dark euro lights up for sale including the four position light switch .
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4026352




_Modified by plastech at 6:29 AM 12-4-2008_


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (plastech)*

I think you all are confused on what I'm trying to do.
Just to clarify:
I want the ability to drive with JUST my park lights and fog lights (i.e. no headlamps). Unrelated to rear fog lights which I have no need for.
Like this (of course it's not a Phaeton but you get the idea):










_Modified by derrickonline at 11:43 AM 12-8-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (derrickonline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derrickonline* »_I want the ability to drive with JUST my park lights and fog lights (i.e. no headlamps). Unrelated to rear fog lights which I have no need for.

That is very easy to accomplish, because what you describe is exactly how foglights are used in Europe. In Switzerland, if you drive with both your front foglights and your low beam headlights on, you will get a ticket from the police.
To enable this functionality, purchase a European headlight switch. Install it (it is plug and play), then just turn it from the off position (or the 'automatic on' position) to the side lights only position. Then press the foglight button to turn on the front foglights. No coding or wiring changes are needed - except, of course, that you will have to code the central electrical controller (controller 09) to turn off daytime running lights, which cause the headlights to be on all the time.
Michael


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (PanEuropean)*

Michael, is this the mod that results in the loss of the 'Valet' function. If so, might want to mention it as, if I remember correctly, that was what prevented me from performing it.
Steven


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (car_guy)*

Perfect Michael thank you.
I've already had my DRL programmed to be off, and yes I lost the valet function, but I never understood how to work that anyway. You never miss something you never had before. 
Thank you!


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)




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## Phaeton_qatar (Jun 20, 2012)

Hi Fellows,

I have the rear fog lights but not in the front. I would like to install the front bumper fog lights. I have some idea on the parts but I need know exactly all the parts required. Please tell me if I'm missing parts in the list.

1- Fog lights ( 2 Quantity)
2- Fog light cover ( 2 Quantity)
3- Fog light switch (Under the steering wheel)

I'm not sure if I need wire harness and connectors since my car has rear fog lights.

Thanks
Asad


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

OK, I give up. What is it?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

A small unicorn?


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