# Auto start-stop: why do you hate it?



## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

One of the most popular complaints about the Tiguan is the auto start-stop function and many people want it permanently disabled.

Some reasons I’ve heard are:

1. In hot climates, it shuts off the AC. Same but opposite in cold climates.
Isn’t the system designed to get to correct set temperature before shutting off?

2. It prematurely wears out the starter or engine.
Has anyone found research that proves this theory, or is it just old school thinking? Engineers have designed the system to work this way.

3. It doesn’t save any gas or it actually uses more gas when restarting.
Again, is there any research to prove this?

4. The restart vibration is too harsh.
Maybe on some cars but my Tiguan is quite smooth and barely noticeable.

5. The car is slow to accelerate after restart.
Slightly true, but who’s gunning their Tiguan at a stop light?

My APR tuned Tiguan has auto start-stop disabled by default as a feature of the tune and the button turns it on. I always turn it back on and wish it wasn’t disabled. I like that it shuts off a rough and noisy idling engine. On early mornings, the engine is so rough at a stop light that I notice the highlights vibrating reflecting off the car in front. What’s not to like about no NVH while idle, in addition to the maybe minor fuel savings? Actually, I don’t care about the fuel savings, I just don’t like this engine’s NVH before it’s warmed up. I see so many people going out of their way to disable this function while I want mine reenabled.


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## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

I disabled mine for all of the reasons you list, but especially #5. Wife complained about the delay in getting going after a stop and did not feel secure, and that if she had to get going quickly to avoid something, that extra second could cause issues. I am a certified accident reconstructionist as part of my job and I know that fractions of a second can be the difference between safety and disaster. Not taking the chance.


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## jonese (Jun 21, 2020)

Foot off the brake, you give it gas, but it takes time to start and you end up jerking the whole car. Now, this is something that you learn how to handle, but it still catches you by suprise occasionally when you're goint to merge left into moving traffic after a stop and you need to be quick and get up to speed to match a vacant spot in traffic.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

Well for me it just came down to being old school and finding any vehicle with stop/start annoying.

1. In hot climates, it shuts off the AC. Same but opposite in cold climates.
Isn’t the system designed to get to correct set temperature before shutting off?

In real cold climates like way up here in Alberta my Tig will shut off in cold  weather and start if it takes to long sitting in say traffic. Heater blows the entire time.

2. It prematurely wears out the starter or engine.
My understanding is that all vehicles with stop start have heavier duty starting systems (starter, etc).

That's what they say.

3. It doesn’t save any gas or it actually uses more gas when restarting.
Again, is there any research to prove this?

Doubt it saves more than a cup of fuel a year. 

4. The restart vibration is too harsh.
Maybe on some cars but my Tiguan is quite smooth and barely noticeable.

Volkswagen stop/start is very smooth

5. The car is slow to accelerate after restart.

Not on my Tiguan. No delay.

I do have that new VW factory tune. I don't use aftermarket tunes as it completely voids a vehicle warranty.Now if the warranty is completely done maybe. 

ODBeleven used to kill off the anoying stop start that will save the planet as they have to use more steel and copper to make heavier duty parts and charge more for vehicles as they become far more complicated and heavier. 

Don't sweat the small stuff


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## azgman (Aug 16, 2016)

dragonpalm said:


> One of the most popular complaints about the Tiguan is the auto start-stop function and many people want it permanently disabled.
> 
> Some reasons I’ve heard are:
> 
> ...


*If you want control over when the engine restarts, simply move the steering wheel a little and the engine will restart and stay running*


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

I don't hate it. and I rarely disable it with the button.

I find it quite east to control stop/start with the brake pedal. Applying just enough pressure to remain stopped will not shut off the engine, pressing harder will stop the engine. My engine never stops at stop signs, for example using this technique.
ANY movement of the brake toward the driver starts the engine so I can start it just before the light turns green if I've let it stop.

I think the only reason to hate it is you can't control the car well, and are always using too much brake.

If I want to get the best off-the-line performance, I bring the car to a stop, press "Resume" on the ACC and it holds the brakes for me and I can rest my foot on the throttle. It's not much but I save the time of releasing the brake and moving to throttle.

With the exception of the subjective "start is too harsh" I find all the arguments against it to be wrong-headed.

If you're curious about fuel savings, look up the MythBuster's episode where the found that the engine being off for 7 seconds started saving fuel, and I think more advanced testing would show that almost any off time saves fuel.


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## Hawkeye9723 (Dec 4, 2019)

It doesn't really bother me all that much. In the winters here in Upstate NY it rarely activates because the heater is running. As for the fuel savings, I don't thing that was the intended use of the S/S function. IIRC it was more for emissions. But as others have mentioned, if it does activate on me, I will either move the steering wheel or lightly lift my foot off the brake before I need to accelerate.


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

gerardrjj said:


> ...
> 
> I think the only reason to hate it is you can't control the car well, and are always using too much brake.
> 
> ...


Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding your point. You're suggesting that most of us cannot control the vehicle because we dislike S/S?

On a related note, how do you find the feather braking works in a hilly area? Do you suspect feather braking is better or worse if you are hit from behind?


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

I'll admit to hating it! Start stop does things that we were never supposed to do. Starting the engine and immediately accelerating before giving time for the oil pressure to build up was considered abuse. We've been told for decades that most engine wear occurs at startup. Hot starts may cause less wear than cold starts, but it is still extra wear. There are oil brands touting oil designed to cling to bearings to combat wear from the start stop feature. Just marketing? Maybe. I think there is no question that start stop causes more wear to the engine, starter and electrical system. Physics says it has to, though steps are taken to minimize the harm. So does it really matter? Depends on how long you plan to keep the car. For most people who dump cars after a few years, the extra wear and tear probably doesn't matter. For those who keep vehicles long term, the stop start adds cost and complexity making future repairs more expensive. This was an interesting read: Stop-start systems: is there a long-term impact on my car’s engine? | Autocar

Does it save fuel? It depends on your real world drive cycle. Of the few numbers I've seen, 7-10 seconds appears to be the minimum engine off time before any fuel saving benefit is realized. We have many stops signs where the car will shut off for a second or two and there are only a few situations where the engine would be off for significantly longer than 10 seconds. Start stop is definitely counterproductive for our semi-rural drive cycle.

Another consideration, however unlikely, is if the system will choke. There are posts on this forum where Tigs stop and don't restart as they should. Other makes of cars have similar troubles. That the Tig could randomly fail to restart is just the icing on the cake to hate the feature!


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## DoC0427 (Sep 16, 2019)

100% agree.

The benefits simply don’t outweigh the costs and risks in my mind at all.

- consider a start failure (not as unlikely as you may think) when you’re sitting in the middle of an intersection waiting to make a left turn in-between traffic.

- the manufacturers does upsize battery and starter and whatever else to mitigate any extra wear, but then does it not therefore imply that not using the system will make those components actually last even longer?

- as said above, starting an engine is hard on the engine no matter what since the oil immediately drains to the oil pan, then takes time to get back circulating. An electric oil pump might mitigate that but Tig doesn’t have that as far as I know.

- maybe just me, but even after trying to adopt to the system for over 2 months, I still got anxiety every time the engine shut down while sitting at a light or in an intersection. To the point where I would do something (feather brake, turn wheel, whatever) to get it to start thereby taking my concentration off the road and whatever else is going on outside the vehicle.


But all for what? To save a few pennies in fuel or marginally reduce emissions according to a theoretical calculation?

Nah... not for me. I spent the $30 for the little cable and have it effectively disable (turn off) the system so I feel safer, and enjoy a longer lasting vehicle. 

...but that’s just me. To each their own I suppose.

DoC


By the way, all of these argued points are not specific to the Tiguan, or even VW.... almost all manufacturers have this now, and these points apply to them all as well.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

Well said DoC.

Frankly it's a faster way to kill your vehicle in the big picture. Not very "green"


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## jonese (Jun 21, 2020)

DoC0427 said:


> - as said above, starting an engine is hard on the engine no matter what since the oil immediately drains to the oil pan, then takes time to get back circulating. An electric oil pump might mitigate that but Tig doesn’t have that as far as I know.


I'm only aware of an additional electric pump in the tranny to keep the hydraulic fluid pressure ready for immediate usage after the engine starts up again.

edit: For reference, page 2 (and details on page 21), very first "feature": https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10159424-0001.pdf 


> Transmission Fluid Auxiliary Hydraulic Pump 1 V475 for providing the oil supply in start/stop operation


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## DoC0427 (Sep 16, 2019)

For what it’s worth, and to answer the thread title specifically, I don’t “hate” the system. I just think it’s dumb.

I think of it this way... it’s a clever answer to the question without considering the intent of the question.

Kinda like a school teacher teaching to the exam instead of providing an education to the student.

Start/stop is designed to provide a better mathematical result to the environmental calculations/testing (marketing). It’s not substantially addressing the larger picture environment at all... fuel savings is marginal at best, pre-mature failure offset by more expensive component manufacturing offsetting any environmental benefits of running the vehicle. Etc...

Again, just my 2c.

Cheers...
DoC


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## Diego012 (Aug 14, 2019)

Don't hate it at all. I never feel the need to race away from stop lights so restarts aren't a problem for me.The system showed up in production cars in the 1970s so engineers have had plenty of time to get the bugs out of it.


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## Zabes64 (Aug 29, 2018)

So I love it, except when I know I'm sitting less then 7s or in stop and Go traffic... ENTER Auto Hold button.

Car doesn't shutoff with autohold if you just get it to a stop and let go, car will shutoff if you hold all the way down, but if you learn how to use it, works great on stop and go traffic and stop signs etc.

Put the 2 together, now it works great.


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

phlegm said:


> Just wanted to make sure I'm understanding your point. You're suggesting that most of us cannot control the vehicle because we dislike S/S?
> 
> On a related note, how do you find the feather braking works in a hilly area? Do you suspect feather braking is better or worse if you are hit from behind?


I'm not suggesting there's a lack of control, just that if you don't understand how to maneuver your car well and the levels of ennergy required to operate it well from both the driver and engine/brakes then you are probably a bad driver. You may not have any tickets or collisions but you're unaware of the machine you are using and it scares me. It would be like a crane operator only understanding two speeds: move and stop for the hoist.

feather braking: you're always using enough brake to keep the car from moving so it works 100% of the time.
rear end hit: I was in this exact scenario. I was fine, the car had minor damage and I did not hit the car in front of me.
The car's impact alert system activated and may have applied full brake, I have no way of telling


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## gerardrjj (Sep 4, 2014)

DoC0427 said:


> For what it’s worth, and to answer the thread title specifically, I don’t “hate” the system. I just think it’s dumb.
> 
> I think of it this way... it’s a clever answer to the question without considering the intent of the question.
> 
> ...


and in the larger sense, yet, you've spoken with your $, start/stop in a vehicle is preferable to walking, biking or taking mass transit.


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## SwiftGTI (Jul 15, 2011)

Primarily due to the jerkiness of it. My other car (GM product) has stop/start as well and it is much smoother on restart and taking off. Don’t mind it at all in that car.


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## DoC0427 (Sep 16, 2019)

gerardrjj said:


> and in the larger sense, yet, you've spoken with your $, start/stop in a vehicle is preferable to walking, biking or taking mass transit.


Huh???
Did you read what I said at all?

I was referring to the bigger picture... if you consider the larger battery, more expensive and much higher energy costs to manufacture the larger components to support the SS function (bigger starter, alternator, heavier gauge copper cables, etc), then I would argue the SS function may indeed be MORE harmful to the global environment, and that’s not even considering the additional raw material acquisition either from mining or recycling.

Of course at a micro/individual level sure it is a positive impact, but that’s a marketing driven message to make the public feel better about the purchase and use of the vehicle vs true overall impact on the environment.

No idea how/why you are bringing walking/transit into the discussion. Has nothing to do with the OP’s original question/post.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

100% agree with DoC0427.


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

I think anyone claiming that auto start-stop prematurely wears out the starter, engine, or battery should provide evidence. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion and in today's world, we live and die by our opinions, but there is simply lack of evidence that this is true. For those that value evidence, prove me wrong.

I think the points regarding environmental impact: positive impact of providing minor fuel savings vs. negative impact of materials production cost for the system... is interesting but ultimately irrelevant. This argument can apply to every technology: benefit of tech vs. cost/impact of tech. Everything produced and consumed has an environmental footprint and impact and none of us can quantify benefit vs. cost in order to justify any position here.

Points regarding safety are reasonable. If there is a chance that the system could not restart in traffic, that is definitely a major downside. I've seen several posts about this happening so it must be real.

For those that simply don't like the function not related to maintenance, environmental, or safety reasons, you are certainly entitled to your opinions. However, almost all modern vehicles have this system so it's something that's probably not going away without major failures or policy change to control it.


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## Remzac (Nov 25, 2007)

dragonpalm said:


> I think anyone claiming that auto start-stop prematurely wears out the starter, engine, or battery should provide evidence. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion and in today's world, we live and die by our opinions, but there is simply lack of evidence that this is true. For those that value evidence, prove me wrong.
> 
> I think the points regarding environmental impact: positive impact of providing minor fuel savings vs. negative impact of materials production cost for the system... is interesting but ultimately irrelevant. This argument can apply to every technology: benefit of tech vs. cost/impact of tech. Everything produced and consumed has an environmental footprint and impact and none of us can quantify benefit vs. cost in order to justify any position here.
> 
> ...


Opinions are like *******s, everyone has one


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## phlegm (Apr 24, 2019)

gerardrjj said:


> I'm not suggesting there's a lack of control, just that if you don't understand how to maneuver your car well and the levels of ennergy required to operate it well from both the driver and engine/brakes then you are probably a bad driver. You may not have any tickets or collisions but you're unaware of the machine you are using and it scares me. It would be like a crane operator only understanding two speeds: move and stop for the hoist.
> 
> feather braking: you're always using enough brake to keep the car from moving so it works 100% of the time.
> rear end hit: I was in this exact scenario. I was fine, the car had minor damage and I did not hit the car in front of me.
> The car's impact alert system activated and may have applied full brake, I have no way of telling


While maybe not your intent, I find your responses akin to patting yourself on the back, and suggesting the rest of us are poor drivers if we dislike auto start/stop. Let me challenge you on this:

A common, yet dangerous situation is making a left-hand turn (right-turn for some EU friends) at an intersection. There's a concept I'm sure you're aware of called the "S Turn", which aims to ensure your vehicle is in a safe state for this situation. It involves:

1. Making an "S" with the vehicle as you move into the intersection to ensure your wheels aren't pointing into opposing traffic when you stop.
2. Being firm on the brakes should there be an impact from behind.

Technically speaking both actions recommended to avoid auto start/stop run counter to this safety maneuver. I'm not sure how big a factor continuously moving the steering wheel is (hopefully you don't have to move it too much), but the feather braking remains a big problem in this situation.


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## DoC0427 (Sep 16, 2019)

dragonpalm said:


> I think anyone claiming that auto start-stop prematurely wears out the starter, engine, or battery should provide evidence. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion and in today's world, we live and die by our opinions, but there is simply lack of evidence that this is true. For those that value evidence, prove me wrong.
> 
> I think the points regarding environmental impact: positive impact of providing minor fuel savings vs. negative impact of materials production cost for the system... is interesting but ultimately irrelevant. This argument can apply to every technology: benefit of tech vs. cost/impact of tech. Everything produced and consumed has an environmental footprint and impact and none of us can quantify benefit vs. cost in order to justify any position here.
> 
> ...


I agree entirely with you and all you stated.
However as the OP, were you not soliciting our opinions? 

As for pre-mature failure of components, I don’t think anyone here states that was the case. In my own posts, I stated components have been upsized to account for that. But my point was that not using the SS function therefore should result in those same components not being taxed nearly as much as designed to, and therefore lasting even LONGER than intended... kinda like having a heavy-duty starter/battery installed into a standard-duty application. Since I intend to keep my vehicles for a long time, that’s a significant reason to me at least.

Anyway, to each their own opinion. I was just trying to communicate my opinion and my own reasons for it, as I assumed that’s what you were asking in the original post. 

Apologies if I misunderstood your ask/intent.

Cheers...
DoC


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## dragonpalm (May 9, 2016)

DoC0427 said:


> I agree entirely with you and all you stated.
> However as the OP, were you not soliciting our opinions?


You are right, I was asking for people's opinions. I guess I could have framed the discussion to be opinions plus support. I still think it is an interesting topic regardless so thank you for your responses.


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## schagaphonic (Aug 24, 2008)

For the first several months I wanted to bypass it or have the switch work without a resetting it every drive.

Now, after almost 2 years of ownership, I let it do it's thing.

It's seamless and far superior to Subaru auto-stop systems I've driven. They are rough and noisy, at least on the Foresters.
I'm not too concerned about fuel savings or premature wear of parts.
The biggest plus is the noise reduction when at a long light. I can relax to the music.
Amazing how smart the software is for this feature at being able to sense the voltage or current draw when adjusting climate control or even waiting for a passenger in PARK with the radio and headlights on. It knows when to restart. Sometimes after 5 or more minutes.
And I've never had the car fail to start for any reason.


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## FOLK_VAHGEN (Aug 14, 2020)

At first I didn’t mind it so much... Until the one time, It started up and stalled out as I was leaving intersection in traffic hour I had to put my Tig in park, Thinking duh can’t turn on unless I’m in Park. Ended up playing whack a mole with Start button, as it would only go into accessory on engine off. FINALLY got the car to turn on after 4-5 cycles -_-


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## vigitalmoe (Nov 14, 2003)

SO... how do we disable it? I missed that. Thanks!


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## Reihenmotor5 (Dec 1, 2006)

MY2019 and under here’s the coding:

Deactivate Start/Stop (does not work for 2020 models due to regulations)

Select Control Unit 19
Adaptations
Search for Start/Stop start voltage limit
Old Value = 7.8
New Value = 12 (highest value is 12.1) 

I turn it off during the hot summer months and the colder winter months. 


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## DoC0427 (Sep 16, 2019)

vigitalmoe said:


> SO... how do we disable it? I missed that. Thanks!


Search is your friend. 
The possible ways to disable it depends on what model year vehicle you have.

2020 and newer you need a cable/module, available on AliExpress, eBay, or a couple European sellers.


Cheers...
DoC


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

dragonpalm said:


> One of the most popular complaints about the Tiguan is the auto start-stop function and many people want it permanently disabled.
> 
> Some reasons I’ve heard are:
> 
> ...


First of all, it is illegal to turn off an engine in traffic.
That is because you may need to be able to instantly move the car out of the way of an emergency or avoid and accident.

1. In very hot or very cold weather, the AC and heating are not really sufficient as it is, so stopping the engine totally screws it up.

2. There is no way to engineer a system that can improve starter life. It simply has about a 1000 uses in it, and you eventually will simply use them all up. And actually you also ruin the bearings, as they only wear on startup, when there is no oil pressure.

3. The reason stopping and restarting uses up so much more gas is that the alternator, battery, and starter are extremely inefficient compared to the gas engine. Idling uses a miniscule amount of gas. You can idle for a month on a tank of gas. But its takes hours to recharge what was lost from battery by restarting the engine. A typical starter draw is over 250 amps. You can tell just by looking at the starter wire, a half inch thick.

4..5. The restart may not be too harsh, but you still can't drive off instantly. Takes time for the ATF to depressurize.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

gerardrjj said:


> I don't hate it. and I rarely disable it with the button.
> 
> I find it quite east to control stop/start with the brake pedal. Applying just enough pressure to remain stopped will not shut off the engine, pressing harder will stop the engine. My engine never stops at stop signs, for example using this technique.
> ANY movement of the brake toward the driver starts the engine so I can start it just before the light turns green if I've let it stop.
> ...


No, off time does NOT save fuel since it take a half hour of additional alternator drag to recharge back into the battery, that which you threw away by restarting needlessly.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

jonese said:


> I'm only aware of an additional electric pump in the tranny to keep the hydraulic fluid pressure ready for immediate usage after the engine starts up again.
> 
> edit: For reference, page 2 (and details on page 21), very first "feature": https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10159424-0001.pdf


So if this additional electric oil pump were to go bad, you would not know, and you would then ruin the automatic transmission.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

Diego012 said:


> Don't hate it at all. I never feel the need to race away from stop lights so restarts aren't a problem for me.The system showed up in production cars in the 1970s so engineers have had plenty of time to get the bugs out of it.


No it did not.
There were no self stopping and restarting cars in the 1970.
They are very recent, and there is no way to get the bugs out, since tripling your starter use is bound to make it wear our in the third the normal time.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

dragonpalm said:


> I think anyone claiming that auto start-stop prematurely wears out the starter, engine, or battery should provide evidence. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion and in today's world, we live and die by our opinions, but there is simply lack of evidence that this is true. For those that value evidence, prove me wrong.
> 
> I think the points regarding environmental impact: positive impact of providing minor fuel savings vs. negative impact of materials production cost for the system... is interesting but ultimately irrelevant. This argument can apply to every technology: benefit of tech vs. cost/impact of tech. Everything produced and consumed has an environmental footprint and impact and none of us can quantify benefit vs. cost in order to justify any position here.
> 
> ...


No it does not take evidence to know that stop/start has to greatly shorten starter life.
What do you think causes starters to wear out if not use?
Do you think they wear out from just sitting unused?
Of course every time you use the starter, it wears the bushes, bearings, gears, contacts, etc.
How could it be otherwise?
And you normally start the car only about twice a day, while stop/start has to increase starter wear by almost a factor of 10 or more.


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## jonese (Jun 21, 2020)

kirk_augustin said:


> So if this additional electric oil pump were to go bad, you would not know, and you would then ruin the automatic transmission.


No, don't think so. The traditional internal mechanical pump would kick-in as soon as the input shaft spun up from the engine. Presumably, you would notice this as an added delay (annoying) before the vehicle moves.


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

Lol, this thread took a turn.... Like it, use it and feel good about it! Don't like it, don't use it and feel good about it!



dragonpalm said:


> I think anyone claiming that auto start-stop prematurely wears out the starter, engine, or battery should provide evidence. I realize that everyone is entitled to their opinion and in today's world, we live and die by our opinions, but there is simply lack of evidence that this is true. For those that value evidence, prove me wrong. .....


The more you start the engine the more wear, simple as that, its called physics. When you throw "prematurely" in there, well now that depends on whether VW took the steps to make ALL the affected components able to handle the extra wear and tear from the start stop. The link in my first post spells it out quite well imo, here it is again: Stop-start systems: is there a long-term impact on my car’s engine? | Autocar



kirk_augustin said:


> No it did not.
> There were no self stopping and restarting cars in the 1970.
> They are very recent, and there is no way to get the bugs out, since tripling your starter use is bound to make it wear our in the third the normal time.


 That is a great trivia question, which I would have gotten wrong too, lol. Turns out one production car in the 70's had it, a 1974 Toyota Crown. A couple of other cars here and there in the 80's and 90's had it. Clearly not a popular feature back then. Source: wikipedia Start-stop system
And given how crappy the cars were in the 70's, the last thing anyone would want was for the car to intentionally turn off on its own! They already stopped all by themselves due to primitive and balky emission controls, usually stalling at the worst times.

As for having decades to get all the bugs out, not quite unfortunately. Just from this MQB forum:
Stop Start function failure
Stalling with Start-Stop System
2019 VW Tiguan- start/stop issue

When figuring the total costs of the start stop feature, don't forget to incluide the secondary electric water pump (the primary is belt driven) and the numerous extra hoses. I couldn't find anything in VW's service manuals with a detailed functional description of how the cooling system for our Tig's is supposed to operate, so I am assuming that the secondary coolant pump is mainly there to support the stop start feature. Please correct that assumption if it's wrong. And if anyone knows where VW has operational descriptions of the Tig's vehicle systems, I'd be grateful for a link!

For me, given our normal drive cycle, the paltry fuel savings, if there would be any, isn't worth the wear and tear, the increased maintenance costs (such all those molded coolant hoses that will eventually need replacing, etc.) and the potentially higher repair costs down the road. I'd prefer VW left it off the vehicle and lowered the purchase price instead.


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## bluejacket (Aug 4, 2015)

Ok every body if you don't like the auto stop system....just simply turn it off when you start your Tiguan. Or install the APR stage 1 tune and have it permanently disconnected via tune option....just saying. Peace. 

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## Diego012 (Aug 14, 2019)

kirk_augustin said:


> No it did not.
> There were no self stopping and restarting cars in the 1970.
> They are very recent, and there is no way to get the bugs out, since tripling your starter use is bound to make it wear our in the third the normal time.


Sorry Kirk but that's not correct. The first production car with a stop/start feature was the 1974 Toyota Crown. VW first used it in the 80s on the VW Polo. Still looking for documented evidence that starters, alternators or batteries can't handle it.


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## Michael07gti (Oct 8, 2020)

If you want to turn the engine back on without letting off the brake, pulse the brake pedal, or turn the wheel a bit.
Always wakes my '19 Rabbit up!
I only turn off the S/S in winter (so far) for the heat. Both to heat the oil faster in '20f weather and to heat me.
In summer, not so much use.


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## lschw1 (Apr 21, 2003)

I hate my push button start so you can imagine how much I don't like auto start-stop. I once had a 2004 GTI VR6 with deadly ESP. When you turned the car off the ESP would flip back on causing extreme risk. We got struck by lightning with only 6000 miles, it got totaled, and I got my money back. Instead of going out and buying another 2004 GTI I waited a year and got a 2006 GTI which has safe ESP. I can't be made to buy a vehicle that has any option I don't like.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

dragonpalm said:


> ....3. It doesn’t save any gas or it actually uses more gas when restarting.....


I think it would be fair to say that idea could be categorized as "conspiracy theory". Can you comment on why the system would be used by so many makers if it was not beneficial to efficiency?


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## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

GTINC said:


> I think it would be fair to say that idea could be categorized as "conspiracy theory". Can you comment on why the system would be used by so many makers if it was not beneficial to efficiency?


For the possible miniscule delta in overall CAFE results to comply with overbearing, unnecessary regulation of the EPA to make everyone "feel good" about saving the planet from "man-made climate change" perhaps?


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## Smokenshot (Nov 22, 2019)

Truthfully, I hardly notice it on my 2019 Tiguan...


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## jjr57 (Sep 17, 2018)

shortybdub said:


> For the possible miniscule delta in overall CAFE results to comply with overbearing, unnecessary regulation of the EPA to make everyone "feel good" about saving the planet from "man-made climate change" perhaps?


And there it is. Thanks to the Feds we cannot have the most up to date lighting on our vehicles either, regardless of how superior they are. These agencies live to come up with more rules, never less, it's how they keep growing and this kind of nonsense just continues to feed the beast. 

To remain on topic I'll say that stop-start is one of the most annoying manifestations of the stupidity. It manages to be the most useless, yet most annoying, outcomes of this process.


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## sazerac (Jun 30, 2020)

Personally, I really enjoy the start/stop feature. Like many, I'm not sure how much fuel it actually saves vs. the cost of possibly replacing a starter and/or battery and/or ?? more often, but only time will tell. The only thing I wish I could change is the delay before the engine shuts off. It shuts off so quickly, that it shuts down at every stop sign. I've tried just barely holding the pedal to keep it from stopping, but it's so sensitive that it rarely works. And pushing the button every time I get near a stop sign kind of defeats the convenience of the system. So my only options are to do a rolling stop (bad!) or live with the fact that the engine will shut off for literally 2 seconds. I had high hopes when I got my OBDeleven that I could find a setting to adjust the delay, but no luck.


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## ssjs1111 (Aug 30, 2018)

I am on my third Golf R. I'd still be on my second if someone hadn't t-boned us and totaled the car while tring to pass me while I was making a left-hand turn _with_ my turn signal on. But I digress...

The new R is a 2019 and the first car I've owned with start/stop. Both this and the 2016 that preceded it were DSG cars, and we live in a city. I appreciate the add'l quietness at red lights, but otherwise dislike the function completely, thoroughly, and utterly. Having read up on its benefits vis a vis mileage I appreciate it, but question the minimal gains vs any decrease in mpg due to add'l weight. (I have zero stats or citations for that.) More to the point, the friggin' system has shut down my car entirely multiple times, forcing me to shift to Park and restart the car, even though all I've done is stop by the side of the road, or similar, for less than a couple of minutes.

I have a long and sordid (not really, but kinda) history w/VW electronics, so I'm rather sanguine about there being a fix for this. I will look into the coding defeat mentioned upthread; turning start/stop off manually every time I get in the car is only rubbing salt in the wound.

My 2¢


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## KurtCav (May 8, 2010)

Maybe I missed it but I hate the fact that when I pull into a parking spot the car auto shuts off when it goes into park. Then I try to shut it off with the button but it actually starts because my foot is still on the brake.

I haven't been able to get used to this feature. It requires foot off the brake to shut off the car with the button when it has auto-stopped.


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## ATBB (Oct 23, 2020)

Start-stop system allows the vehicle to meet emissions standards in a test driving cycle. If the user is able to disable start-stop then this is altering emissions standards the vehicle meets (emission standards describe vehicle properties, not the driver). 

Are there other cars that allow the user to tweak emissions requirements? We should have an EPA slider in a car, then "Dieselgate" would have been just one of the drive modes.


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## Barry T (Apr 23, 2020)

It is ridiculous. I won’t get into the extra wear and tear on the engine components but let’s talk about safety, not just the environment. I bought a stat/stop memory module and I love it. No more start/stop and if I ever have a moment of insanity, I can turn it back on. 
I have been in serious car accidents and the split second it takes to restart and possibly avoid getting killed while the engine restarts is not worth the risk.
Let’s worry about lives!


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## kiriyaaoi (Sep 15, 2018)

I'm gonna ressurect this thread to post this video that apparently nobody here watched, ESS saves a not insignificant amount of fuel (on the order of 4-9% or so).


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## IbsFt (Dec 15, 2018)

kiriyaaoi said:


> I'm gonna ressurect this thread to post this video that apparently nobody here watched, ESS saves a not insignificant amount of fuel (on the order of 4-9% or so).


Nice first post. Apparently you couldn't be bothered reading the thread since all the points in that video have already been addressed. It still comes down to each particular drive cycle determining how much fuel, if any, is saved. Not everyone drives in cities, which is where those fuel savings numbers you quoted came from. All the other concerns about extra wear, failures of the stop start system, etc. also remain valid. See this thread for just one of many failure examples: 2022 Taos SE FWD - Turning off while in Drive, not starting

Those that dislike the start stop might enjoy this: we were shopping for a new vehicle for a family member (not VW) and were told due to the chip shortage the vehicle we were looking at was minus the stop start feature. And the manufacturer was refunding the purchaser $50 because of it! I'd gladly donate our VW's stop start "chip" to help with the shortage...


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## out of step (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm bothered by a lot of things, but the stop-start feature doesn't even register


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