# Open wastegate makes more power than reroute?



## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

I have my Downpipe and wastegate being redone at the moment. I asked for the WG to be rerouted, just bc i like the way my car sounds without hearing the WG, but ive been reading lately that open WG will yield more power, and a reroute will yield earlier spool time...
The people saying it makes more power dont have any facts to back it up though, so im asking for an explanation as to why an open wastegate would yield a higher horsepower? Only thing i can think of is the ability to release the exhaust gases quicker, but being released into an exhaust thats 3" i would think it wouldnt make much of a difference. Someone help b4 i make a $200 mistake


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

ah, rictus i meant to put this in the FI forum, you can move it if you can


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

It allows the engine to breathe better straight out into the open air once @ full boost. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
It DOES create more power.
Having said that - I'd still choose re-route. It's CRAZY loud otherwise. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif If the sound doesn't bother 'ya tho - it's free power.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (MeiK)*

i dunno, i dont think it would make a noticeable difference in peak power, but i do know that a reroute has proven to increase spool time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (.SLEEPYDUB.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.SLEEPYDUB.* »_i dunno, i dont think it would make a noticeable difference in peak power, but i do know that a reroute has proven to increase spool time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Do you mean *decrease*?


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (apstguy)*

Love the sound of open dump.Buddies TT 350Z i put together is running Open dumps. Sounds amazing


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (apstguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *apstguy* »_
Do you mean *decrease*?

you know what i meant, but thanks for correcting me. Yes i mean decrease in spool time


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (.SLEEPYDUB.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.SLEEPYDUB.* »_
you know what i meant, but thanks for correcting me. Yes i mean decrease in spool time

Someone has to keep you in line!


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## 24ValveGLI (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (apstguy)*

Well look at all three of Induktions cars







All running well over 500 and all with Open Dumps


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (apstguy)*

less turbulence since the gases have their separate way of getting out via the "dump tube" instead of going back into the downpipe?
only reason I can see an external dump making more power really..


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## malezlotko (Nov 27, 2004)

*Re: Open wastegate makes more power than reroute? (One Gray GLI)*

An open wastegate will stink up the inside of your cabin. Every time I go into boost my girlfriend complains about the horrid smell of fumes. I am going to at minimum reroute it to the ground if not into the down pipe as soon as I get a chance.


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## spitfire481 (Mar 21, 2007)

*FV-QR*

run a dump tube down by the subframe and be done with it. open dumps are music to my ears


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## mr.candid (Sep 11, 2008)

today when i started to boost i heard how retarted loud an open dump tube is on my vrt. I have mine setup with tubing right to the floor near the dogbone.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (mr.candid)*

yea, i had mine dumped since ive had it boosted, and i mean, it was kool...but it really doesnt sound THAT great...It in no way sounds better than the sweet melodic music of the VR rumble. That combined with the added spool of the turbo cant be beat.
But back on topic...anyone else have known proof of power loss?


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

In "theory" a rerouted dump _could_ make more power... for anyone thats curious you could google "jet pump". In practice, you could probably expect a very small power loss... maybe a few percent or so depending on how the reroute intersects with the downpipe. I'd say just do it.


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (leebro61)*

FWIW I have always run a rerouted WG for noise and emissions at well over 500hp and never thought about changing it


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*

Comeon guys FOFFA changed to open dump...it has to make power.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (05JettaGLXVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *05JettaGLXVR6* »_Comeon guys FOFFA changed to open dump...it has to make power.

true, but hes also got to squeeze out every ounce of power due to his tire limitations


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

Jacob - you don't need a wastegate........


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

If you run the dump tube far enough down stream you'll be fine.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (ALLGORIMSHOW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ALLGORIMSHOW* »_If you run the dump tube far enough down stream you'll be fine.

Basically......but never the less it will always be a case by case bases......
Theoretically it will make more power, if you reroute it so far down that it has almost no affect or if you do it sooner the affect gets greater. It will all depend on (off the top of my head)
A) how large of exh. you are running
B) how much exh. mass flow you have
C) how much exh. mass flow you are rerouting
The obvious disturbance is the rerouted exhaust combining with the regular exhaust stream and creating turbulance which creates backpressure.
It has been proven on Evo's that the dump off the stock turbo will produce more power than the typical aftermarket stainless 'highflow' collector rerouted.
But remember everyone's setup is different, gains from one won't match gains from another.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I reroute mine, 2 yrs with it dumped and it was crazy ear piercing loud when you drove next to a big truck, a wall, etc.
Plus the screaming turbine engine sound of the turbo is wayyyyyyyyy better than BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! IMO


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

just re-route it back and make sure that it's angled towards the end of the downpipe at a good angle, you don't want the re-routed gases from the WG to hit the ones from the turbo against its flow or even at a 90* angle


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## RedDevil (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: (05JettaGLXVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *05JettaGLXVR6* »_Comeon guys FOFFA changed to open dump...it has to make power.

He only did it to be different...


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## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

look ill make ti simple for you.
The faster the gas's escape the faster boost builds.
simple as that.
Car wont make more power at all,because once the gate opens itself to wtv spring it has in it,thats how much boost your regulating.
open dump=
sounds way cooler
cheaper to fab
no turbulance down the line in the exhaust
faster the exhaust push's threw and escapes the wg dump,faster you get to boost.
cheers


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_just re-route it back and make sure that it's angled towards the end of the downpipe at a good angle, you don't want the re-routed gases from the WG to hit the ones from the turbo against its flow or even at a 90* angle

Correct As usual Paul......
Open dumps are the suck THE END
Or you cant weld or fabricate a proper setup....there for you suck
I have Spoken


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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

up to 400 WHP on a 3'' down pipe > re-route if you are going over 400 WHP, I would put an open dump


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (mcdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mcdub* »_Car wont make more power at all,because once the gate opens itself to wtv spring it has in it,thats how much boost your regulating.


I feel you should rethink this statement......... than you might realize this is not true. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (GTijoejoe)*

Yeah dude think about exhaust flow. Ever took en your catback off if you have one? You can feel the difference.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (05JettaGLXVR6)*

Im just gonna reroute it. Thanks guys, i think the general consensus is there either no loss in power, or the loss is very minimal


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

^^^ Think about it man.
Open wastegate = exhaust is escaping right after the turbo manifold. Therefor the exhaust isn't as restricted. No cat, resonator, muffler, etc for the exhaust air to go thru.
LOTS of air escapes from a wastegate... 
There is a gain from an open dump. As cheesy as it may sound.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (MeiK)*

but the power loss is minimal, i can live with that


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: (.SLEEPYDUB.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.SLEEPYDUB.* »_but the power loss is minimal, i can live with that









lol We'll see how long you'll be "OK" living with your mere 700WHP goal or whatever madness you have planned.







You'll be cutting that reroute off one day thinking "Ahhhhh I need that extra HP!!!!" lol


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*FV-QR*

pssssh, nah..me? never lol


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## Flyfella (Dec 24, 2008)

the basic theory behind rerouting the waste gate is to create scavenging in the exhaust (scavenging being that exhaust flow helps pull more exhaust gasses out of the engine, which works with valve overlap as well) but with scavenging comes back pressure naturally which isn't bad all the time....but with just a big turbo build and little to no engine work like cams or head work, there wont be much of a noticeable power loss or gain from either. im running an open waste gate with a t3/t4 50trim and making 350hp and i love it!


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## split71 (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: (Flyfella)*

open wg = sex. Although, it does always smell like gas in my old BT 1.8t, it did sound awesome.
dyno vid








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ai40GoVZLxY


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (split71)*

consrvation of energy impossable to help the pres drop in the DP more than you'd hurt the pres incr in the WG pipe for net increase from both vicaversa however you reinjected it
own edit










_Modified by EL DRIFTO at 9:32 PM 2-1-2010_


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## 976-RADD (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (EL DRIFTO)*

I'm also looking to reroute the WG dump to the DP. Anybody have pics for reference?


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## BoostedDubVR6T420 (Dec 4, 2009)

The sound of the turbo in full boost re-routed overcomes the measly horsepower you loose. Especially if you run proper size exhaust, and the re-route is lower on the DP you really dont interfere with flow by causing a bottleneck.


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## Dub-Nub (Sep 27, 2005)

i have my wg opening near the subfram on the bottom, never smelled anything from the wg nor my VTA catch can. Stop complaining ._.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (976-RADD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *976-RADD* »_I'm also looking to reroute the WG dump to the DP. Anybody have pics for reference?


this pic of the Kinetic Turbo kit has a downpipe w/re-routed for MKIII








I run an open dump that drops below the subframe behind the pass axle.. If your dump is too loud try getting a shorty motorcycle muffler and putting it on your dump tube, the heat is too much for the fiberglass packing in motorcycle mufflers but the baffles give the dump a nice rumble instead of a raspy roar.. 








(note I had to abandon that dump tube when I went to o2m, it wouldn't clear the diff housing, still going to run a muffler on it though, the sound is just excellent.. better than open and better than recirc imo)


_Modified by dreadlocks at 12:50 PM 1-21-2010_


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

I love my open WG. makes the difference between sounding like an ordinairy VR or something from hell








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INX7EoQiQK0
Pass @ 35 sec. Sprint @ 2.10


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## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: (pimS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pimS* »_I love my open WG. makes the difference between sounding like an ordinairy VR or something from hell








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INX7EoQiQK0
Pass @ 35 sec. Sprint @ 2.10

this much better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5BhudnNbno
re-routes are gay.
they dont sound intense enough,and cost more in welding time and metal


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (mcdub)*

every person i know who was running an open dump, has changed it to a re-route. the heat score and noise is too much of a pain in the ass, mine was open dump for one day, hated it.


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## crzygreek (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*

what do you guys think about this way of rerouting the WG on a kinetics manifold setup:


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## simon-says (Oct 21, 2007)

*Re: (crzygreek)*

There are open dump mufflers.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (simon-says)*


_Quote, originally posted by *simon-says* »_There are open dump mufflers. 

simon says where can I get one of these spiffy dump mufflers you pictured?








*edit*
found this, hrmm... I think I'll bite and give it a try
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUP-344-1705/


_Modified by dreadlocks at 11:09 PM 1-21-2010_


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Mine is going to be open dump too, but id wager for less than a week. When the novelty wears off
Open dump is good for track cars, but no doubt, it does sound mean


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## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: (crzygreek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crzygreek* »_what do you guys think about this way of rerouting the WG on a kinetics manifold setup:




huge edit just saw the second pic.
Thats looks pretty mint.
theo get it running allready,hows my old turbo
























_Modified by mcdub at 11:49 PM 1-21-2010_


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_Mine is going to be open dump too, but id wager for less than a week. When the novelty wears off
Open dump is good for track cars, but no doubt, it does sound mean

no good for track cars. most tracks have noise restrictions now (road courses)


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## S3.2 (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: (crzygreek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crzygreek* »_what do you guys think about this way of rerouting the WG on a kinetics manifold setup:



I think it's perfect! (and it's how I did mine)
The concept behind this is to have the exhaust flow from the wastegate almost parallel to the flow from the turbine: because the wastegate exhaust is higher energy than that coming from the turbo it creates a vacuum on the turbo exit and increases efficiency. I believe this is even better than the dump tube.
No wonder: Theo means God in Greek.
I had mine with a dump tube in the begging but as soon as the wastegate opened, it sounded like crap... I had to reroute it, and it seems it's even stronger now.http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (S3.2)*

foffa mentioned allot of stainless movement there
i'd sure try to vband or unwelded joint whatever movements look like stress risers


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

i've been driving around with my open dump for 2 years now, and i still love it.
Nothing beats roaring through a tunnel with an open dump. Or scaring kid's at the bus-stop


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## S3.2 (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: (EL DRIFTO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL DRIFTO* »_foffa mentioned allot of stainless movement there
i'd sure try to vband or unwelded joint whatever movements look like stress risers

You're right about that.
Or it could have another small spring at the output of the wastegate.


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## SparkyJetta (Dec 27, 2003)

All the reasons for open dump remind me of the harly guys, gotta be loud for the sake of being loud. Sounds cool to them, annoying to the rest of us.


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dreadlocks* »_
*edit*
found this, hrmm... I think I'll bite and give it a try
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUP-344-1705/
_Modified by dreadlocks at 11:09 PM 1-21-2010_

Keep me posted or the thread if/when you install this, im curious to see how it works http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (pubahs)*

i was thinking of the spool once the waste gate cracks open
& i guess it would be better the more restricted the wg flow was...
"The value in creating a separate tailpipe here is that it effectively increases the exhaust system's total flow area. In general, a wastegate will be more positive in response and somewhat more effective in controlling boost pressure when accompanied by it's own tailpipe.
The wastegate vent tube or tailpipe will suffer unusually large fluctuations in operating temperature. This situation exists because the wastegate is closed most of the time, and the vent tube will thus be cold, since no exhaust flow is present. As soon as the wastegate opens, the entire vent tube experiences a rapid rise in temperature. This fluctuation will occur every time the wastegate opens. This requires the vent tube design to be such that it can expand and contract without putting itself in a crack inducing bind. Expansion joints can take the shape of swaged or bellowed connections. Bellows, to prove long term durable must be stainless steel and of sturdy construction. The material should be a minimum of .03" thick. A bellows must be supported so as to eliminate vibration, or it will fail due to metal fatique."
Corky Bell
edit: twin dumps sound like a harley








II: then the guy with the open dumps, in the tunnel with kids deleted his post...
open dumps in the vw forum where everyone has full interior 
_Modified by EL DRIFTO at 9:31 AM 1-23-2010_










_Modified by EL DRIFTO at 9:35 AM 1-23-2010_


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

Open dump ftw. BS on heatscore issues. You gonna tell me full throttle passes on high boost are low key?
10 years + with it opened and no plans of changing


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## rweird (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: (.therealvrt)*

this

_Quote, originally posted by *.therealvrt* »_Open dump ftw. BS on heatscore issues. You gonna tell me full throttle passes on high boost are low key?
10 years + with it opened and no plans of changing

most cars will be relatively tame until the wg opens and at that point does it really matter


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (rweird)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rweird* »_this

most cars will be relatively tame until the wg opens and at that point does it really matter










Really guys? Stop being bitches...its not that loud. Plus other people know your coming


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## BoostedDubVR6T420 (Dec 4, 2009)

I guess we can say that whether you like open dump, or re-routed dump it's all in the owners discretion. Some like it open, others closed. Turbo sounds bad A$$ no matter what.


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## 976-RADD (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (05JettaGLXVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *05JettaGLXVR6* »_

Really guys? Stop being bitches...its not that loud. Plus other people know your coming

Name calling? Really guy? Yes, it is that loud; Beside, I'd rather hear the turbo and exhaust noises. And I don't care to let people know I'm coming, especially the cops.


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## rweird (Apr 10, 2004)

*Re: (976-RADD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *976-RADD* »_
Name calling? Really guy? Yes, it is that loud; Beside, I'd rather hear the turbo and exhaust noises. And I don't care to let people know I'm coming, especially the cops.


i can hear my turbo just fine. its not like the wg is open all the time. when im wot and full boost its not like my 3" exhaust is quiet. and i can still hear my turbo over it. if im not driving the car hard it isnt loud. sounds like an 8v with an exhaust.


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: (.therealvrt)*

woops, i didn't quote corky's whole 2 paragraphs...
he mentioned all that movement potential if you reroute it back into the exhaust, before the cat, sorry


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## simon-says (Oct 21, 2007)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dreadlocks* »_
simon says where can I get one of these spiffy dump mufflers you pictured?









_Modified by dreadlocks at 11:09 PM 1-21-2010_

http://www.vibrantperformance.com/main.php


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## Bthornton10 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: (simon-says)*

IMO 
I think this sound is better then an open dump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-WKt5zDu9w


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## GTIYR87 (Nov 1, 2006)

*Re: (Dub-Nub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dub-Nub* »_i have my wg opening near the subfram on the bottom, never smelled anything from the wg nor my VTA catch can. Stop complaining ._.

I believe his wasn't routed down low. I may be mistaking.


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