# CAUTION for those with Flashed ECU's



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

At the dealership now waiting on my car to be done in Service. 

The Service Manager came out and said that the "recall" from VW to flash the ECU's includes detection software and if an ECU has been flashed they can and will use it to void warranty issues. Audi has already started this action as well and now VW is using it. 

Thankfully, they were very cool about it and didn't do the recall. 

As soon as I get my invoice, I'll try to find the campaign number.


----------



## Babie (Jul 22, 2012)

plex03 said:


> At the dealership now waiting on my car to be done in Service.
> 
> The Service Manager came out and said that the "recall" from VW to flash the ECU's includes detection software and if an ECU has been flashed they can and will use it to void warranty issues. Audi has already started this action as well and now VW is using it.
> 
> ...


 What are you getting your car flashed for, what recall.


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

Babie said:


> What are you getting your car flashed for, what recall.


 It's a blank recall from VW. Recall: 24W1 

It popped up when I took it in for it's 90 day and they didn't do it then because they couldn't tell what it was for. 

I was going to have it done today and then take it over and have it reflashed by my local APR dealer. The new ECU flash by VW would now be the new stock default. 

This new ECU software from VW will detect ECU flashes.


----------



## Babie (Jul 22, 2012)

plex03 said:


> It's a blank recall from VW. Recall: 24W1
> 
> It popped up when I took it in for it's 90 day and they didn't do it then because they couldn't tell what it was for.
> 
> ...


 eeek, I know my brother wants a new intake. So they are being picky on these flashes. I wonder about just using a vag-com for tweaks, are they going to penalize for that.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Babie said:


> eeek, I know my brother wants a new intake. So they are being picky on these flashes. I wonder about just using a vag-com for tweaks, are they going to penalize for that.


 For an additional $150 the APR's ECU 'flash' can be set up to give you the ability to 'flash' to and from your 'stock' setting. Takes a few seconds to go 'to and from 'stock' and can be done in the driver's seat without even having to go to the tuner. Slso, there are some VW dealers who will 
actually oversee the ECU flashing using HPA's equipment. Volvo is already doing it with their 
'in house' Polestar 'ECU flash' through all their dealerships.


----------



## Babie (Jul 22, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> For an additional $150 the APR's ECU 'flash' can be set up to give you the ability to 'flash' to and from your 'stock' setting. Takes a few seconds to go 'to and from 'stock' and can be done in the driver's seat without even having to go to the tuner.


 oh, can you go back to stock at anytime for service, none the wiser.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Babie said:


> oh, can you go back to stock at anytime for service, none the wiser.


 Yes!


----------



## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

I heard a while back that Audi had started scanning ECUs for aftermarket software as a cause for voiding the powertrain warranty. It doesn't matter if there's anything wrong with the vehicle. Personally, I would wait till the factory warranty is over before chipping the ECU. If you don't care about or need the warranty, then it doesn't matter. 

APR's capability of switching back to stock program used to be undetectable but I don't think it is anymore. I could be wrong so check with APR and someone who's a VAG Tech.


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

Ridgeman, 

The ability to flash back to stock will not matter. This new update will detect it. 

I have that ability on mine and it was set prior to going into the dealership.


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

Cadenza_7o said:


> I heard a while back that Audi had started scanning ECUs for aftermarket software as a cause for voiding the powertrain warranty. It doesn't matter if there's anything wrong with the vehicle. Personally, I would wait till the factory warranty is over before chipping the ECU. If you don't care about or need the warranty, then it doesn't matter.
> 
> APR's capability of switching back to stock program used to be undetectable but I don't it is anymore. I could be wrong so check with APR and someone who's a VAG Tech.


 You're 100% correct.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

plex03 said:


> Ridgeman,
> 
> The ability to flash back to stock will not matter. This new update will detect it.
> 
> I have that ability on mine and it was set prior to going into the dealership.


 Since my new software motor was simply installed with nothing involving the mechanic 
having to deal with the ECU, I don't know what an ECU examination would or would 
not produce. Was told by HPA that they are having VW dealers actually involved with 
their ECU 'flashing'. I was told one of them was a N.J. dealership but I don't remember 
the town it was in. As I also mentioned, Volvo is offering the ECU upgrade in their cars. 
I believe it's called Polestar.


----------



## 12TURBO (Jul 29, 2012)

Plex03 

Did you have the VW. Recall: 24W1 flash done to your car and what does it do. Did the dealer detect your APR flash and void your warranty? Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

:laugh:


----------



## Frank Reynolds (Feb 15, 2012)

This is nothing new. 

Pay to play.


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

12TURBO said:


> Plex03
> 
> Did you have the VW. Recall: 24W1 flash done to your car and what does it do. Did the dealer detect your APR flash and void your warranty? Thanks for the heads up.


 Sent you a PM.


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

Frank Reynolds said:


> This is nothing new.
> 
> Pay to play.


 True but VAG seems to want to restrict the scope of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act even tighter. The fact that they want to include CAI's as a violation is appalling. They might have a tough time with that fight. 

Anyway, here's a thread about Audi's implementation of this secret surveillance from March of this year. (Document included) 

Audi ECU Detection Software 

Obviously, VW has followed suit and I'm sure it'll be part of all of VAG's brands.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Frank Reynolds said:


> This is nothing new.
> 
> Pay to play.


 This, I'm sorry but you're an idiot if you think tuning you're car doesn't void your warranty. It's been this way forever, just because VW is using software to detect it now, doesn't mean it didn't void your warranty before if the technician wanted to report it.

Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Have to say my dealership is 'ECU upgrade friendly'! I base this on the fact that one of 
their high level execs had his Golf R 'flashed' recently. At ove 300 hp now, his 'R' is 
awesome. However, he does admit my short-shifter is needed in his car and he 
will be installing one.


----------



## GTarr (May 17, 2012)

They may have been tuner-friendly in the past Ron, however, where I see this going is that the dealerships will have less choice in the matter. Anytime the car is connected to the dealership scan tool, it will check if the car has been tuned and report it to VW's central servers. I suspect from that moment on, VW will deny powertrain warranties for the vehicle in question. Dealers may go to bat for you, but honestly, I think it would be more of a gesture than anything else. I don't think they'd really get anywhere if VWoA was fighting back. 

GTarr


----------



## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

plex03 said:


> True but VAG seems to want to restrict the scope of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act even tighter. The fact that they want to include CAI's as a violation is appalling. They might have a tough time with that fight.
> 
> Anyway, here's a thread about Audi's implementation of this secret surveillance from March of this year. (Document included)
> 
> ...


 Magnuson-Moss applies to OE replacement parts, like an Auto Zone ball joint, not altered parts.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

GTarr said:


> They may have been tuner-friendly in the past Ron, however, where I see this going is that the dealerships will have less choice in the matter. Anytime the car is connected to the dealership scan tool, it will check if the car has been tuned and report it to VW's central servers. I suspect from that moment on, VW will deny powertrain warranties for the vehicle in question. Dealers may go to bat for you, but honestly, I think it would be more of a gesture than anything else. I don't think they'd really get anywhere if VWoA was fighting back.
> 
> GTarr


 If Linden VW in N.J. has, as HPA informed me, that their dealership will be offering ECU 
'flash' upgrades supplied by HPA, I'm sure customers having the upgrade done are not 
going to have a problem.. My dealership is a combined enterprise that includes Volvo. In 
fact, the 'head honcho' in charge of Bay Ridge VW actually drives a company car supplied 
by the Volvo dealership directly across the street, and Volvo, as I stated, already offers the 
ECU upgrade to their customers who ask for Polestar. I do know my window gear guides and 
motor were installed with the dealership fully aware my car was APR 'flashed' and Stage II 
'tuned', with a Borlia exhaust to boot. Now, in the unlikely event I failed to follow proper 
maintenance over time, or subjected the car to severe racing induced problems, there could 
'understandably' be a problem for me. To tell you the truth, I'm more concerned with the 
pro's and con's with regard to adding power related stress if I decide to go to Stage III. The 
'need for speed' outweighs all other factors concerning powertrain protection from VW as far 
as I'm concerned.


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

Visited my dealership today and asked the question about ECU flashing voiding the warranty and they said that's nonsense. It was the dealership that suggested I go to APR LLC to get more performance out of my 2.0 turbo. In fact, one of the owners told me he did a Stage II on his personal car and loves it. I asked him about the dealership giving me a hard time about doing the APR flash and he said not on his watch. I also asked about specific software to detect ECU flashing and he said they do not have any and if they did they would not use it. For what is worth, the ECU results are amazing and I highly recommend it to anyone looking for more horsepower and torque.


----------



## Aonarch (Dec 4, 2006)

cbugrun said:


> Visited my dealership today and asked the question about ECU flashing voiding the warranty and they said that's nonsense. It was the dealership that suggested I go to APR LLC to get more performance out of my 2.0 turbo. In fact, one of the owners told me he did a Stage II on his personal car and loves it. I asked him about the dealership giving me a hard time about doing the APR flash and he said not on his watch. I also asked about specific software to detect ECU flashing and he said they do not have any and if they did they would not use it. For what is worth, the ECU results are amazing and I highly recommend it to anyone looking for more horsepower and torque.












^ Standard dealer tool. 

I am still tuned FYI, as have all of my cars been.


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

Aonarch said:


> ^ Standard dealer tool.
> 
> I am still tuned FYI, as have all of my cars been.


 The Rep did not say he could not tell if the ECU has been flashed with the software he already has. I was referring to some new specific software that Volkswagen allegedly sent to the dealers to detect flashing for the specific purpose of voiding warranties. This he said was not true. BTW what are you still doing on the Beetle forum and how do you feel now that they have a fix for the windows? Any regrets giving your Beetle back for a Sportswagen?


----------



## VR6Now (Dec 31, 2000)

Cbugrun,

Maybe your guy was speaking the truth because they haven't upgraded to the latest VAS software but I wouldn't take any comfort by what he said. Everything I've seen suggests that there is no way a tuned ECU can produce a checksum equal to the VW software. Really thats all one needs to check to detect a tune. The auto-check for ECU modification is in the latest version of VAS from what I hear and there are VW and Audi cars currently being tagged. All dealers will need to update thier VAS to accomodate the lastest cars. Maybe today your source is right but I believe it is a short-lived situation.


----------



## Rockerchick (May 10, 2005)

cbugrun said:


> Visited my dealership today and asked the question about ECU flashing voiding the warranty and they said that's nonsense. It was the dealership that suggested I go to APR LLC to get more performance out of my 2.0 turbo. In fact, one of the owners told me he did a Stage II on his personal car and loves it. I asked him about the dealership giving me a hard time about doing the APR flash and he said not on his watch. I also asked about specific software to detect ECU flashing and he said they do not have any and if they did they would not use it. For what is worth, the ECU results are amazing and I highly recommend it to anyone looking for more horsepower and torque.


Heck, I'm pretty sure a VW dealer here in NC is a dealer for APR...


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

Rockerchick said:


> Heck, I'm pretty sure a VW dealer here in NC is a dealer for APR...


I also asked my dealer if they had any problem with me putting the APR Stage I badging on the rear deck of my Beetle and they said absolutely not a problem. Not sure why we are having this conversation. My dealer has been working with APR LLC for many years and does not have a problem with their tuning.


----------



## LEBlackRob (Feb 1, 2012)

This is actually a good update. I had a friend look into this TSB and he informed me that they had issues with the 2012's not storing codes properly. Which sucks because some of us have scan tools and would like to see when something starts acting before it takes a complete crap. Now to be completely honest with you they have always been able to see tunes at dealers. The reason most slip past is either the guy is lazy and does not care or it does not apply to what they are doing to the car. The second reason would be they are aware that the software is on the car and know to look past it. This being said you find a mod friendly dealership and or be chill about the problems with the car. I loved working for a dealership and having dumb dumbs come in complaining about a noise coming from the dash when they are slammed on coils. Most of the time it is common since.


----------



## Carbon Steel (Sep 6, 2010)

GTarr said:


> They may have been tuner-friendly in the past Ron, however, where I see this going is that the dealerships will have less choice in the matter. Anytime the car is connected to the dealership scan tool, it will check if the car has been tuned and report it to VW's central servers. I suspect from that moment on, VW will deny powertrain warranties for the vehicle in question. Dealers may go to bat for you, but honestly, I think it would be more of a gesture than anything else. I don't think they'd really get anywhere if VWoA was fighting back.
> 
> GTarr



This may be what the future holds. I know some VW dealers are APR as well and if you have one in your area, i would probably get them to do it, because that is your best hedge against future issues and provide a one stop shop rather than tuning shops passing the buck and the nightmare that i have read about a few times. (tow it here, tow it there, no thanks)

But, i also agree that VW of A is not sanctioning the mods and they will take a stand against you and the dealer, so if you have confidence in the dealer, hey get it in writing from them, that they will honor your VW warranty and the APR mod. Then you will Probably be covered, but you can't run to VW of A, if the dealer flakes on you.


----------



## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

LEBlackRob said:


> I loved working for a dealership and having dumb dumbs come in complaining about a noise coming from the dash when they are slammed on coils. Most of the time it is common since.


Hypothetically speaking... 

If one's vehicle is still under warranty but needs repair for a new MAF or head gasket but has been tagged as having aftermarket ECU program, will the "friendly" dealer foot the bill or VWoA?


----------



## Enchanter1 (Sep 4, 2012)

A little off topic, but where can I find an authorized APR installer in my area?


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

Enchanter1 said:


> A little off topic, but where can I find an authorized APR installer in my area?


Go here and enter your zip code.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Cadenza_7o said:


> Hypothetically speaking...
> 
> If one's vehicle is still under warranty but needs repair for a new MAF or head gasket but has been tagged as having aftermarket ECU program, will the "friendly" dealer foot the bill or VWoA?


Most likely neither one. You know you are taking a chance when you tune your vehicle. I don't even understand why this is a discussion, it's black and white. You modify your ECU you void warranty, period. Some dealerships are nice and will work with you and try to hide it from VW, but otherwise you're SOL. All depends how nice the dealership is and how much they like or dislike the local VW community.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm bringing a big box of 'chocolate bon-bons' to my service mgr today. I can tell by all
the chocolate candy bar wrappers littering his cubicle that the man can definitely be
won over with bon-bons. Hell! I can then go to Stage III and if I need to go in for service,
I just have to remember to bring more bon-bons. Such is the power of the cocoa bean 
with some individuals.


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

drtechy said:


> Most likely neither one. You know you are taking a chance when you tune your vehicle. I don't even understand why this is a discussion, it's black and white. You modify your ECU you void warranty, period. Some dealerships are nice and will work with you and try to hide it from VW, but otherwise you're SOL. All depends how nice the dealership is and how much they like or dislike the local VW community.




If what you say is true, why did you do all the performance work to your Beetle? So as far as you are concerned, you have no warranty on your car or is your dealer okay with what you did. Mine told me as long as I don't go to Stage II I am okay.


----------



## Rockerchick (May 10, 2005)

Some people don't care about the warranty. I know plenty of people who have modded their cars in warranty. There are dealers out there who are mod friendly, and are smart enough to know which things will be considered void because of your mods and which won't (the window issue isn't affected by a chip, for example).


----------



## sethdude (Jun 27, 2012)

It was said already, but I'll say it again: pay to play, folks. This conversation has been done to death amongst GTI owners, and there are always those who feel they can go against the explicit rules outlined in your warranty documentation and still have their car repaired by VW for free.

Flashing you ECU probably voids more parts than it doesn't- your entire drivetrain and just about any electrical part is probably not covered by Moss-Magnuson, due to the fact that they're all controlled by the ECU.

If your dealer wants to cover your repair under warranty after you have knowingly voided your warranty, consider it a gift. Just don't expect it.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

sethdude said:


> It was said already, but I'll say it again: pay to play, folks. This conversation has been done to death amongst GTI owners, and there are always those who feel they can go against the explicit rules outlined in your warranty documentation and still have their car repaired by VW for free.
> 
> Flashing you ECU probably voids more parts than it doesn't- your entire drivetrain and just about any electrical part is probably not covered by Moss-Magnuson, due to the fact that they're all controlled by the ECU.
> 
> If your dealer wants to cover your repair under warranty after you have knowingly voided your warranty, consider it a gift. Just don't expect it.


I've been trying to say this forever, but people keep thinking they should be covered.


----------



## LEBlackRob (Feb 1, 2012)

sethdude said:


> It was said already, but I'll say it again: pay to play, folks. This conversation has been done to death amongst GTI owners, and there are always those who feel they can go against the explicit rules outlined in your warranty documentation and still have their car repaired by VW for free.
> 
> Flashing you ECU probably voids more parts than it doesn't- your entire drivetrain and just about any electrical part is probably not covered by Moss-Magnuson, due to the fact that they're all controlled by the ECU.
> 
> If your dealer wants to cover your repair under warranty after you have knowingly voided your warranty, consider it a gift. Just don't expect it.


Yes agree with this guy. Depending on the dealership and or the tech's in the place. You can get lucky and have things covered, but keep in mind that you are walking thin ice on warranty claims. This is part of playing with a newer car. So man up and study on the car so if it comes to a point that they can't cover it. Be prepared with either some one to take the car to or a place that you can do the work on it on your own. This is my 3rd new VW and will be my 3rd with software. Knock on wood but I have yet to have a warranty voided and know the risks that I face. So if you do not feel comfortable with tuning your car. Then your best bet is to not tune your car. If you choose to tune your car look at the disclaimer you sign when you tune your car it out lines what your at risk of.


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

*2 ecu's??*

I would really love to get the APR Stage I. Huge bummer about the warranty issues now. After a couple weeks with the Turbo, especially with the manual tranny, I definitely feel it needs more low end torque, and the extra 50 hp....the Stage I would bring it to what it should be from the factory.


Anyone thought of buying a secondary ECU to mod? Pull the stock one out, throw in modded....then if ever need to bring in for service, put stock one back in. How expensive, feasible would it be??


----------



## PooLeArMor (Aug 13, 2008)

Derby Herbie said:


> Anyone thought of buying a secondary ECU to mod? Pull the stock one out, throw in modded....then if ever need to bring in for service, put stock one back in. How expensive, feasible would it be??




it doenst work that way.. u need to code the ECU with ur VIN to work which will cost **** load of $$$


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Derby Herbie said:


> I would really love to get the APR Stage I. Huge bummer about the warranty issues now. After a couple weeks with the Turbo, especially with the manual tranny, I definitely feel it needs more low end torque, and the extra 50 hp....the Stage I would bring it to what it should be from the factory.
> 
> 
> Anyone thought of buying a secondary ECU to mod? Pull the stock one out, throw in modded....then if ever need to bring in for service, put stock one back in. How expensive, feasible would it be??


HPA, the tuning specialist from Canada, is offering their ECU upgrade at an actual VW dealer,
Linden VW of N.J.. There very well may be other VW dealerships that are are 'upgrade' friendly
and perhaps HPA can direct you to one near you if you're concerned about the warranty? The
Stage I type ECU upgrade is offered throughout all Volvo dealerships, called Polestar, and I
would think that forward thinking VW dealerships may very well be coming on board as well.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> HPA, the tuning specialist from Canada, is offering their ECU upgrade at an actual VW dealer,
> Linden VW of N.J.. There very well may be other VW dealerships that are are 'upgrade' friendly
> and perhaps HPA can direct you to one near you if you're concerned about the warranty? The
> Stage I type ECU upgrade is offered throughout all Volvo dealerships, called Polestar, and I
> would think that forward thinking VW dealerships may very well be coming on board as well.


APR also does tunes at dealerships across the nation too, doesnt mean it doesnt void your warranty. God does anyone read the paperwork they sign when they buy a car? Any modification to the ecu voids it, doesnt matter who does it. Pay to play people, pay to play!

And before someone says it, yes some dealerships are nice about it, but they don't have to be, its their choice, but if they go by the book, its voided

Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## Carbon Steel (Sep 6, 2010)

Even if a VW dealer is a Tune shop and they are "Mod friendly", etc., if you have a catastrophic/major failure with the engine, transmission and the dealer needs VW of A's assistance for a new engine/trans etc., VW of A will want some info on the car, like hook up the computer, check the ECU info and when it shows TUNE they will not be giving the dealer a new engine.

So how long will the dealer be mod friendly if it ends up coming out of his pocket. Reading all the threads about, launching, tire spin, over torque codes, etc., between the mods and operator/driver inexperience, many of the modded ( and some non modded) cars are being abused, ie operated outside of the parameters that VW has designed them for.

Personally, i don't want VW to support problems caused by abuse, ie operator dogging the car because as VW compiles the statistics and they calculate maintenance (warranty costs) it will increase the price of the car.

I am for freedom of choice, do your own thing, enjoy your car, but when you tune, then race, even from stop light to stop light and something goes wrong, man up, accept your responsibility and fix it yourself, don't go whining to the VW dealer.

Hence the well over used phrase Pay to Play


----------



## Beets (Sep 22, 2012)

Carbon Steel said:


> Even if a VW dealer is a Tune shop and they are "Mod friendly", etc., if you have a catastrophic/major failure with the engine, transmission and the dealer needs VW of A's assistance for a new engine/trans etc., VW of A will want some info on the car, like hook up the computer, check the ECU info and when it shows TUNE they will not be giving the dealer a new engine.
> 
> So how long will the dealer be mod friendly if it ends up coming out of his pocket. Reading all the threads about, launching, tire spin, over torque codes, etc., between the mods and operator/driver inexperience, many of the modded ( and some non modded) cars are being abused, ie operated outside of the parameters that VW has designed them for.
> 
> ...


Well said!!


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

At least my windshield wiper blades were replaced at no cost. Look's like if I go to K04 or
Stage III, no more free wiper rubbers. Have to therefore rethink those possible upgrades.
Here's a complete list of items still covered by VW:
1. window motor 
2. window motor gear guides
3. radio
4. Hmmmm!

I'm sure there are other things, it's just that I'm going to have to give it some more thought.


----------



## Carbon Steel (Sep 6, 2010)

Yes, there are many things that VW will still have to warranty, regardless of tune, springs etc., and they should ie like your wiper blades, battery for a limited time period, certainly the window debacle and other items, like the radio etc., air-conditioning unit etc. etc. etc. And most of those things will never fail, but if they do, there won't be a question when bringing the car in. VW will honor the warranty on those items.

The dealership that we are getting the 2013 turbo beetle from is an APR dealer and they do tunes, they have one experienced person who does them, he has a closed off room to perform the tunes, and they will be the first to tell you that it is a precise procedure and for now they will still, to the best of their ability, stand behind their work, ie if they are tuning you and touch the wrong pin, they will get you a new ECU. The question is how many engines, ECU's are they willing to buy/replace etc., before they stop being an APR dealer.

They will stop when it is no longer profitable. 

So where will you be if a major issue occurs if you have to relocate/transferred to a new job, on a trip across country in your car, still in the same location, but the dealer decided it is no longer profitable so they changed their policy.

VW will still be in business following their rules, but your dealership may not be able to support you.

And as you probably can imagine a warranty is important to me, why i am willing to accept major depreciation when i drive it off the lot. If my car fails to start, stumbles, misses, makes weird noises, goes to the limp mode, etc. I call the dealer, send a roll back pick up my car and fix it. No stress, bumper to bumper for 36K, then it is time for a new one.

I don't want to come off as a know it all, it is just as we progress through life our priorities change and this is where i am at now.


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

PooLeArMor said:


> it doenst work that way.. u need to code the ECU with ur VIN to work which will cost **** load of $$$


Thanks for the scoop...I kinda figured it wasn't easy. Was just hoping.



ridgemanron said:


> HPA, the tuning specialist from Canada, is offering their ECU upgrade at an actual VW dealer,
> Linden VW of N.J.. There very well may be other VW dealerships that are are 'upgrade' friendly
> and perhaps HPA can direct you to one near you if you're concerned about the warranty? The
> Stage I type ECU upgrade is offered throughout all Volvo dealerships, called Polestar, and I
> would think that forward thinking VW dealerships may very well be coming on board as well.


I may seek out an APR/VW dealer in TC area...if there is one here. This town is kinda lame that way. Thanks for the info!


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

Carbon Steel said:


> Yes, there are many things that VW will still have to warranty, regardless of tune, springs etc., and they should ie like your wiper blades, battery for a limited time period, certainly the window debacle and other items, like the radio etc., air-conditioning unit etc. etc. etc. And most of those things will never fail, but if they do, there won't be a question when bringing the car in. VW will honor the warranty on those items.
> 
> The dealership that we are getting the 2013 turbo beetle from is an APR dealer and they do tunes, they have one experienced person who does them, he has a closed off room to perform the tunes, and they will be the first to tell you that it is a precise procedure and for now they will still, to the best of their ability, stand behind their work, ie if they are tuning you and touch the wrong pin, they will get you a new ECU. The question is how many engines, ECU's are they willing to buy/replace etc., before they stop being an APR dealer.
> 
> ...


I really like the comfort of warranty too....would be nice if VW would at least have a factory-authorized performace chip to boost power 50hp. With stipulation that if car gets beat on (and now days they can pretty much tell), warranty would be voided. They may start losing some sales to other manufacturers that are more mod friendly.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

If you are able to be directed to a VW Motorsports Dep't at an actual VW dealership, talk
to them concerning their performance upgrades. Personally, I don't see where a simple
Stage I upgrade would adversely affect your car but let them explain the pro's, and con's
if any, that you should be aware of. I can see ECU's being 'Flashed' by dealers overseeing
the upgrade and charging you for it like Volvo does. I don't believe Volvo goes higher than
a 45hp gain with their Polestar, which would basically be a 'Stage I' upgrade.


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> If you are able to be directed to a VW Motorsports Dep't at an actual VW dealership, talk
> to them concerning their performance upgrades. Personally, I don't see where a simple
> Stage I upgrade would adversely affect your car but let them explain the pro's, and con's
> if any, that you should be aware of. I can see ECU's being 'Flashed' by dealers overseeing
> ...


Sadly, the only APR dealers locally are independent performance shops.....Closest VW dealer/APR shops are 400 miles away in Chicago.

Just thought of something so simple......I'll just clone my car 

Hopefully come spring I'll do the APR Stage I....."Barbrro" has the need for speed.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Derby Herbie said:


> Interestingly, all the APR dealers locally are independent performance shops.....Closest VW/APR shops are 400 miles away in Chicago.
> 
> Just thought of something so simple......I'll just clone my car
> 
> Hopefully come spring I'll do the APR Stage I....."Barbrro" has the need for speed.


'WHOOSH !' is something all drivers dream of experiencing at one time or another.


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> 'WHOOSH !' is something all drivers dream of experiencing at one time or another.


For sure! Do you know how fuel economy with APR vs. stock is, when driven less aggressively?


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Derby Herbie said:


> For sure! Do you know how fuel economy with APR vs. stock is, when driven less aggressively?


I gained about 3mpg on stage I, I'll be going stage 2 this week, probably won't see any more gains in mpg though

Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

This thread is really getting old. If you are worried that an ECU tune will void your warranty then don't do it. Otherwise shut up and move on to another subject. Hopefully something positive.


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

drtechy said:


> I gained about 3mpg on stage I, I'll be going stage 2 this week, probably won't see any more gains in mpg though
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk


I've seen about the same. I will say though that if you really watch the getting on the throttle and observing posted speed limits that I've gotten upwards of 40MPG in CITY driving.


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

cbugrun said:


> This thread is really getting old. If you are worried that an ECU tune will void your warranty then don't do it. Otherwise shut up and move on to another subject. Hopefully something positive.


Why the hostility? Remember that there are still some people who are new owners and they too, can get info here.


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

plex03 said:


> Why the hostility? Remember that there are still some people who are new owners and they too, can get info here.


I am not hostile. I am just sick and tire of listening to the same crap about flashing ECU's over and over and over again. I assume we are all big boys and girls on this forum and understand the risks of our decisions. This subject has been covered at infinitum on this and other car forums. Its been beat into the ground many many times. All I am saying enough already. Lets move on to something else.

:banghead:


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

drtechy said:


> I gained about 3mpg on stage I, I'll be going stage 2 this week, probably won't see any more gains in mpg though
> 
> Sent from Tapatalk


Thanks for the input! Good to know. At this point, I'll probably wait til spring to do it...but just want to do all my homework beforehand to know exactly all the economic implications are.



plex03 said:


> I've seen about the same. I will say though that if you really watch the getting on the throttle and observing posted speed limits that I've gotten upwards of 40MPG in CITY driving.


Thanks for the info Plex! I really feel the engine needs that extra torque/hp. Currently, mine lugs pretty easily in first gear without just the right rev/clutch play on my manual, especially on a hill.


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

cbugrun said:


> This thread is really getting old. If you are worried that an ECU tune will void your warranty then don't do it. Otherwise shut up and move on to another subject. Hopefully something positive.





cbugrun said:


> I am not hostile. I am just sick and tire of listening to the same crap about flashing ECU's over and over and over again. I assume we are all big boys and girls on this forum and understand the risks of our decisions. This subject has been covered at infinitum on this and other car forums. Its been beat into the ground many many times. All I am saying enough already. Lets move on to something else. :banghead:


Wow....not hostile, eh? Really?? Last time I checked, this is a VW chat site that allows members to seek info/input on topics related to the Beetle. If you're tired of this topic, and from YOUR perspective, feel its been over-discussed, there's a simple solution FOR YOU....Simply stay off the thread. 

There are many topics here I no longer have interest in, and may personally feel have been over-discussed, but its not my place to interject that on said thread....any more than it is yours. The decision on whether or not to chip or not may be casual to you, but its not to me. And its a decision I will deliberate on until spring....and if that means posting questions on this or other "old threads" from time to time, I will continue to do so.


----------



## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

This is supposed to be an informative and positive forum. This new model will not only attract new people to VWs, but to modding their cars as well. Not everyone is familiar with chipping or flashing ECUs. Lets be supportive here please.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> This is supposed to be an informative and positive forum. This new model will not only attract new people to VWs, but to modding their cars as well. Not everyone is familiar with chipping or flashing ECUs. Lets be supportive here please.


Are you sure? I thought this was the internet lmao

Just playin

Sent from Tapatalk


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

Derby Herbie said:


> Wow....not hostile, eh? Really?? Last time I checked, this is a VW chat site that allows members to seek info/input on topics related to the Beetle. If you're tired of this topic, and from YOUR perspective, feel its been over-discussed, there's a simple solution FOR YOU....Simply stay off the thread.
> 
> There are many topics here I no longer have interest in, and may personally feel have been over-discussed, but its not my place to interject that on said thread....any more than it is yours. The decision on whether or not to chip or not may be casual to you, but its not to me. And its a decision I will deliberate on until spring....and if that means posting questions on this or other "old threads" from time to time, I will continue to do so.


I guess my comments may have been a little too strong and for that I apologize. I do not feel flashing the ECU unit is a casual decision. I sought the advise of many people before I decided to go for it although this is not the first time I have done it. I totally understand the warranty risks involved but I felt the benefits out weighed the risks especially since my dealer recommended the APR Stage I tune to me. In fact, their dealership in Florida is an approved APR dealer. I was told by my dealer that as long as I did not go beyond the Stage I tune they will not have a problem covering any warranty issues. With that said, the power increase is amazing and my gas milage has gotten much better. I also installed a Carbonio carbon fiber cold air induction system which when added to the Stage I tune increased my horsepower to 265 and torque to 307. No issues to report to date and the car drives beautifully. So from my perspective I would say go for it if you want more power and less turbo lag but if you are concerned about it voiding your warranty then don't do it. I have read about flashing or not flashing so many time I must have had a moment when I made my original post. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.

:wave:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

After reaching APR's Stage 2 in my six-speed TB, I'm seriously leaning toward an upgraded
clutch. This will be a 'must' when going to K04 a few months from now but I'm even concerned
now with the torque in the low 300's. Southbend has a Stage 2 Daily clutch kit that goes up to
400 ft/lbs but still retains the OEM characteristics while also having a silent design built into
it. I've been quoted $600 for the install and now have to find the best price for the clutch kit.


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> This is supposed to be an informative and positive forum. This new model will not only attract new people to VWs, but to modding their cars as well. Not everyone is familiar with chipping or flashing ECUs. Lets be supportive here please.


Thank You!



cbugrun said:


> I guess my comments may have been a little too strong and for that I apologize. I do not feel flashing the ECU unit is a casual decision. I sought the advise of many people before I decided to go for it although this is not the first time I have done it. I totally understand the warranty risks involved but I felt the benefits out weighed the risks especially since my dealer recommended the APR Stage I tune to me. In fact, their dealership in Florida is an approved APR dealer. I was told by my dealer that as long as I did not go beyond the Stage I tune they will not have a problem covering any warranty issues. With that said, the power increase is amazing and my gas milage has gotten much better. I also installed a Carbonio carbon fiber cold air induction system which when added to the Stage I tune increased my horsepower to 265 and torque to 307. No issues to report to date and the car drives beautifully. So from my perspective I would say go for it if you want more power and less turbo lag but if you are concerned about it voiding your warranty then don't do it. I have read about flashing or not flashing so many time I must have had a moment when I made my original post. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers.
> 
> :wave:


No hard feelings. I've done the same from time to time on other forums. We've all been on both sides  at one time or another. Thanks for the feedback on your experience with APR, I appreciate it :thumbup:

I'm thinking if the stock engine has any defects to speak of, they'll show up by this winter when we get some severe sub-zero temps up here....cold starts are a real test. After it passes that test, come spring its APR time!


----------



## cbugrun (Jul 14, 2012)

Derby Herbie said:


> Thank You!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks and good luck.


----------



## Derby Herbie (Mar 11, 2012)

cbugrun said:


> Thanks and good luck.


Thank You!


----------



## Catarpillar (Feb 15, 2013)

*why not just buy another ecu ?*

How come i havent heard of anyone buying a replacement ecu from the service dept and having that one flashed and then just swapping in the old ecu when going in to the dship? It would only cost 1300$ plucs the cost of the ecu flash from apr or wherever and you would have a Track day" ecu and another to swap in for repairs. :thumbup:

problem solved 

your welcome eace: 

:bs:


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Catarpillar said:


> How come i havent heard of anyone buying a replacement ecu from the service dept and having that one flashed and then just swapping in the old ecu when going in to the dship? It would only cost 1300$ plucs the cost of the ecu flash from apr or wherever and you would have a Track day" ecu and another to swap in for repairs. :thumbup:
> 
> problem solved
> 
> ...


Not sure where you got that price from but another ecu is about $3k, also you can't just swap them back and forth. The ecu would have to be "married" to rest of the electronics in the car everytime you swap and inthink only the dealership can do that. At least thats how it was explained to me.

posted by Tapatalk


----------



## plex03 (Nov 10, 2011)

drtechy said:


> Not sure where you got that price from but another ecu is about $3k, also you can't just swap them back and forth. The ecu would have to be "married" to rest of the electronics in the car everytime you swap and inthink only the dealership can do that. At least thats how it was explained to me.
> 
> posted by Tapatalk


THIS. 

That's exactly what I've been told as well. 

The great thing with APR is that your ECU upgrade is tied to your VIN so if you ever need to wipe their tune completely off it, they will and then after service they will reinstall the software.

Some will do it N/C, some won't but if anything it'll be a minimum labor charge.


----------

