# Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else?



## racefaith (Mar 18, 2009)

Hi. My car has the factory installed mobile phone system which is now essentially obsolete.
I use a company supported iPhone which carries my personal number of going back many years.
I am wondering can the pre-wiring and set-up for the in car Nokia be used for anything else? Can i retro fit something that would enable me to use the handsfree micro-phone and speaker systems with my iPhone? 
If not, is the wiring and antenna good for some type of satellite radio retro fit?
Any ideas other than ripping it out because it takes up usable space in the arm rest would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance, Chris


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (racefaith)*

Hi Chris,
I was able to get the Bluetooth module from the Touareg to work in my 2004 Phaeton (worked with my Palm 700w and now my HTC Eris); I did not have the phone package installed, so it only worked like a bluetooth headset would - meaning I would have to accept and end the call on the phone buttons - but the radio would mute and a tone would announce an incoming call.
My goal was to try and hook in an old Touareg J412 phone module alongside the bluetooth module in hopes that it would activate the Infotainment screen and steering wheel controls, but I never got around to it (the J412 is still in my desk drawer!)
Kufatec.com makes a cable which I think is designed to connect the Bluetooth module with older phone modules, so I feel fairly certain that the Bluetooth module could be connected to the Nokia phone module in the trunk, and you could probably eliminate the armrest unit (or sell on ebay, or whatever).
Here is a picture of the Kufatec cable I think might work:








Please note that this is just a guess - this cable was designed for ROW Touaregs around 2005 to connect the bluetooth module to the phone module via the old-style cradle that was mounted on the dash (see  this ClubTouareg post )
Just curious - what makes your phone system "obsolete"? Did the phone quit working, or are you only using the iPhone? 


_Modified by CLMims at 6:23 PM 2-4-2010_


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## racefaith (Mar 18, 2009)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (CLMims)*

Thanks for the input. 
I meant in the sense I only use my iphone... no use in carrying a second phone that I cant imagine i'd use for any purpose. Obsolete in the sense to me its only a phone and provides no data transfer value.


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (racefaith)*

In Europe there was a snap-in module that replaced the phone cradle in the arm rest that allowed for Bluetooth connectivity; however, one or two people tried over here and could not get it to work with NAR Phaetons:








See  this post for more info...


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (CLMims)*

Chris:
"I was able to get the Bluetooth module from the Touareg to work in my 2004 Phaeton (worked with my Palm 700w and now my HTC Eris); I did not have the phone package installed, so it only worked like a bluetooth headset would - meaning I would have to accept and end the call on the phone buttons - but the radio would mute and a tone would announce an incoming call."
1- What is the module called and do you have a part number?
2- To where do you connect this module?
3- My car has a telephone button at the entertainment unit, does this mean that I have a telephone module and how do I access it?
4- Do you have telephone controls on your steering column? I do not. Do I need to have them?
Thank you.
cai


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (cai)*

Hi CAI!








The part that I rigged into my system (in place of the no-longer-working OnStar) is the Touareg Bluetooth interfacebox, part number *7L6-035-729-H*. In addition, you will need the antenna (8P0-035-503-E) and a 54-pin housing (4E0-972-144) to complete the hookup, as well as a VAG-COM to code the module once installed.
(My write-up on the install is here)
OEMPLUS.COM has a kit with all the parts for $760
KUFATEC.COM also has a kit (but it is $995.95)
There is also a Parrot kit on 1stVWParts.com for $249.95 which works for a Touareg, so I would guess it might work for a Phaeton (although you might have to re-pin the ISO plugs to ones that would fit the Phaeton Infotainment unit in the back).
So to answer your questions:
1) Touareg Bluetooth module (part number above)
2) I replaced the OnStar in the trunk (see link to instructions above), but as I recall you do not have OnStar; if you wanted to pull the Infotainment unit out to access the plugs in the back (CAN lines, mute, etc.) that might be the best option since you may or may not have the wires in the trunk - you could always look in the trunk under the package tray, they might still be there even though there is no OnStar!
3) The Phone button was added to all late 2004 - 2006 Infotainment units regardless if they had the phone option or not; if there is not a phone cradle in your armrest, you do not have any phone capabilities.
4) Likewise, if you do not have the phone controls on the steering wheel, you do not have the phone package; I added the phone button to my car in the hopes I could get it to work with the Bluetooth module, but they do not work (so you do not need it). Calls have to be placed, accepted, and ended via the cell phone. If you try the Parrot kit which does use the steering wheel controls, it works with the volume buttons or I would think if you added the phone controls it would work with those too.
It appears the Bluetooth module is a secondary unit to the main phone module (J412). Eric "Fighterguy" has a post where he retrofitted the phone option in his Phaeton; I was going to see if I could get a Touareg J412 connected to the Bluetooth module so the car would "think" it had the phone setup, but there is also the issue where the Switch-over Box (J758) was necessary in cars with the phone and the OnStar, so both modules might be needed to get the car thinking it has the phone setup.


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (CLMims)*

Chris:
Thank you for the very detailed reply and explanation. You are correct in that I do not have the ONStar capability. I had seen that thread several times, but forgot you were the writer and did not relate your previous answer here to that topic. 
I think that I saw a Parrot equipped car that was for sale in Rockville last year. The unit sat on the dash board near the A pillar and had to have some drilling and external wiring done. I was not very enthusiastic about the installation.
I am looking more for something that allows me to do hands free speaking through the car speakers even though I do have to make the calls through the telephone. It would be nice if the car could answer and hang-up the calls. 
I do have a spare SIM card that could be used for something involving a car telephone. Any ideas out there on how I can do what I would like to do.

Thank you.
cai


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*FV-QR*

Cai -
If your spare SIM card is enabled and working (ie you have a phone number that uses it) you could simply get the appropriate Nokia phone and leave it in the car. If you load your contacts on that phone then I believe they will show up on the Infotainment unit. I have a spare. Send me a PM if you're interested.
Another option that I'm not sure if anyone has tried is the Nokia Bluetooth module shown below. I believe it was made to accept a bluetooth connection from a phone and then plug into and replicate the Nokia phone that came with certain MB. I believe its the same phone that the Phaeton's accept. I don't know if it would work but it seems like if its just replicating a Nokia phone then it shouldn't matter whether it is in a MB or a Phaeton.
MB Bluetooth Interface 
















Best Regards,
Nate


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (ruddyone)*

Nate,
I hate to report that the Viseeo bluetooth adapter you were referring to does not work with Phaeton. I could not resist buying one a few months back and trying it out. Despite the fact that it is a "Nokia 6000-series emulator" it does not 100% replicate original Nokia. When plugged into the Phaeton, the car does power it on momentarily but switches off immediately, thinking there is no phone in the craddle. I even tried feeding +12V for the Viseeo directly and managed to keep it powered. It does pair with a bluetooth cell without problem, but still the car refuses to recognize it.
I exchanged a few emails with the makers of Viseeo and they did confirm that it is only compatible with Mercedes. What makes it MB specific, they could not explain.
So I sold the Viseeo to a MB owner who said it works like a champ. That did not make me happy at all...
In a perfect world, there would be a device exactly like this for the Phaeton. it would bring all the old Nokia phone kits into life again. Simply plug and play. 
Unfortunately, as we - the drivers of an "older" Phaeton - aren't too many around, the Viseeo folks had no interest in looking any further on the compatibility issue. And those other wizards, the guys at Kufatec (Makers of the FISCON, VW-specific integrated bluetooth) told that they have no plans on supporting the "old" Phaeton. The FISCON does work with the 2009- Navi, though.
Someone mentioned the VW OEM "plug in Bluetooth adapter" - it does not work with Phaeton, either.
So it seems to me there's not much chance for getting a sensible "bluetooth upgrade" for the Phaeton - not now, perhaps never. This really makes me mad. Personally, once I've got used to a "100% integrated" phone I could not install another Parrot kit and having another phone plus extra SIM would be "so 90's". So - for me - the bluetooth HFP or rSAP kit would be the only way to go.
Perhaps one day I'll invest on the OEM rSAP kit - that is really the only option, although a pretty expensive and complicated one.
Jouko


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (jkuisma)*

Jouko -
Thanks for the follow-up. I sent you a PM. Please let me know if you did not receive it.
Best Regards,
Nate


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (cai)*

Nate:
Sent you a PM.
cai


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (CLMims)*

Chris:
To recap, you are correct, I do not have the telephone option. My VAG scan turned "no response from controller" for both controller 75 telematics and 77 telephone. However, you mentioned the following:

_Quote, originally posted by *CLMims* »_since you may or may not have the wires in the trunk - you could always look in the trunk under the package tray, they might still be there even though there is no OnStar!
.

1- Where is this package tray located in the trunk and how do I access it so that I may look?
2- With your system, besides the muting of the radio and the incoming call tone indication, can you use the car speakers and microphone?
3- Are you thinking of installing the Tuareg J412 unit any time soon? If you are let me know as I would like to "help", or probably more likely bring the beer and watch.
Thank you.
cai


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (cai)*

1. In the trunk's "ceiling" there is a tray that holds several electronic parts, it is held in place by seven Torx screws: 5 around the perimeter and two in the middle (it might help to take an intro yoga class before squeezing into the trunk on your back to get to these screws!) One the screws are removed, the tray can be pulled down (it still is held in place with clips so you need a firm tug) - you should see something like this:









2. Since I replaced the OnStar unit in my car, I used the wires for the MUTE and Microphone, so the phone call comes through the car speakers and uses the LH speaker in the ceiling console; since you do not have an OnStar, my guess is you might not have a speaker in the ceiling (but you never know, they might have left one there!)
3. The Touareg J412 unit I bought is a Pieker, which is one of the UMPP (Universal Mobile Phone Prep) "Low" units, so I don't know if it would display the info on the Infotainment screen like the Phaeton Nokia unit, but if I get a chance to try it out I'll certainly let you know!
Here is a link to a description of the different UMPP's used in VW - I can't tell if the NAR Phaeton had a specific Nokia unit or if it uses the UMPP "Low" Nokia described in the doc:
VW Universal Mobile Phone Preparation


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (CLMims)*

Chris:
As always, you have provided great information. Thank you.
I understand your warning about crawling into the trunk. Saturday I had to close the ski trap door and got inside the trunk just to find that it was not as easy to get out. I thought I was going to have to call fire rescue to bring the jaws of life to extricate me. Whether wired or not, I do have the round microphones next to the interior lights in the roof.
I will probably try to open this equipment tray just to satisfy my curiosity and see what it is that I actually have. Looking at the Bentley software, it implies that all Phaetons have one of two telematic/telephone modules installed. One is the J412 and the other is the J526. So your hunch that the Tuareg J412 would work is correct. 
The picture in the manual lists only either one of these two modules, it does not have the Switchgear controller that you show in your picture. What does that controller do? 
Bentley seems to imply that either module J412 or J526 is all one needs to install a telephone cradle in the car. I guess when the telephone is in the cradle it is hard wired to the J523 unit. So one needs the Tuareg Bluetooth module to pair a telephone to the system. The Bentley assumption is rather simplistic in view of the via crucis that fighterguy had to go through installing his unit from scratch.
My sister bought a 2010 MB S550 Quattro (ot whatever the 4x is in MB speak), and that car has only two things that the Phaeton does not; one is better DVD base GPS (with street names) and a telephone that is voice activated. Needless to say I am disappointed that the Phaeton does not have telephone capabilities. So I keep investigating to see how I can install that feature.
Wouldn't the factory in Germany know what modules and wiring they have installed in a particular model year or car by VIN number? Wouldn't they be of help if one wants to install a telephone? Does anyone have the wiring diagrams for a 2006 US car? Those would show what is possible, that is if they are the redline updated version and are specific to the US models. Very frustrating.
cai


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (cai)*

If you were to simply compare a 2004 NAR Phaeton to a 2004 ROW Phaeton, the main difference in the telephone systems would be the now-defunct J499 OnStar in the NAR vehicles; for this feature, the J758 "Switchover" module was also required, even when the Phone is retrofitted in place of the OnStar (as Eric discovered with his retrofit).
Fast forward a year to 2005 when OnStar was removed, and it seems logical that the NAR and ROW telephones would be the same; however, I don't know of anyone who has a 2005 or 2006 non-OnStar Phaeton with phone prep that can provide info such as what the module tray looks like or what a VAG-COM scan would show, nor do I know of a non-OnStar NAR phone-prep wiring diagram.
I have seen a 2006 wiring diagram showing the J412 for a ROW car (I can share with you if you'd like), the main difference being the antenna is no longer connected to the cradle in the center armrest but instead is connected to the J412. I would assume that if the J412 for the 2005-2006 NAR cars had an antenna connector, they might be the same. (Perhaps someone with the latest version of EKAT can check to see if there was a change or break for the part number 3D0-035-729)


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: Can pre-installed phone system be used for anything else? (CLMims)*

I would like to see that wiring diagram for the 2006 ROW. But I am now more curious than ever in taking a look at that equipment tray. I will try to coax my son into doing it.
The wiring diagrams from Bentley, at least the ones I have seen, do not show much of the wiring for the telephone, microphone, and the J523. But the next thing to consider is whether the J523 has to be reprogrammed to accept a telephone if one is installed.
cai


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Bluetooth looks possible with UMPP rSAP*



cai said:


> I would like to see that wiring diagram for the 2006 ROW. But I am now more curious than ever in taking a look at that equipment tray. I will try to coax my son into doing it.


 Would this be the wiring diagram showing the Bluetooth option? All components look so incredibly familiar, that it almost looks like there is a possibility to upgrade to Bluetooth: 









It looks like this system works like it is supposed to do: it can recognize and memorize up to 10 phones with Bluetooth (rSAP = Remote SIM Access Profile) and uses the car's areal and transmitter. 
This image below gives a little more information and gives me 100% the impression that this is the wannahave Bluetooth. 








One condition is that the phone must be equipped with Premium UMPP. I guess many Phaetons do have this, but have no idea how to be sure of that. 


Hope this leads to the holy grail!


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Pictures posted*

Pictures posted in previous post.


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## Nikolas01 (May 16, 2011)

Telecommunication media and phone system has come a long way in serving the mankind in a way so as to make the life easy. I suggest try out searching for your technical advancements online as that will provide you to have a deeper understanding about the service.


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## DNAguy (Oct 13, 2009)

*Parrot Works Great*

I have a Parrot installed in my Phaeton that routes sound between cell phone and Infotainment speakers...The only issue is that the Infotainment is not muted...Otherwise address book, voice commands, dialing answering and hang up are all handled thru the Parrot device...

Buck


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