# Please Help! Burning oil after replacing PCV



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

I am new to the forum and new to modern VWs. I recently purchased a 2006 VW Passat with the 2.0T FSI, 6-speed manual. Less than a week after I purchased this the engine started revving when I had the clutch pushed in at a stop light. I took it to a local shop that specializes in VW and Audi. The guy told me multiple times that I had wasted my money because he had never seen one of these engines with more than 150k miles (mine has 178k). He put a new PCV valve on it but said that it did not fix the revving so he removed it. Charged me $100 and told me good luck!

I was not convinced so I purchased a PCV valve, seal and breather hose (PCV valve to intake). I installed these and the revving went away. Excellent, right? Wrong, now it is burning oil like mad, 1quart per 50 miles, and sending a cloud of smoke out the back. The generic DTC codes were:

P000A/000010 - Camshaft A (Bank 1 Intake): Positioner Slow Response
Possible Causes

Camshaft Adjustment Valve 1 (N205) faulty
Wiring/Connectors from/to Camshaft Adjustment Valve 1 (N205) faulty
Intake Camshaft Adjustment (Bank 1) faulty ​
And P2195 O2 Sensor Signal Biased/Stuck Lean (Bank 1 Sensor 1) Code


I have done some reading but don't have a clear direction as to how to trouble shoot this without throwing parts at it. So far the possibilites I see are:

Rear breather tube/check valve ($60)
Vlave Cover - PCV channels have fallen apart ($250)
Seals in turbo are shot ($1k)
Pistons need new rings ($?)



I could use all the help I can get here. Is my list above correct? Is it complete? How can I troubleshoot each item without throwing a part at it?

Also, any direction on a scan tool as well as a shop manual (preferably a Factory Service Manual, not a chilton) would be very useful as well.

Thanks in advance,
Frustrated!


----------



## GTI's (Nov 27, 2011)

What is the part number of the Pcv you used, the Passat in 2006 had its own Pcv up to a certain VIN.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

GTI's said:


> What is the part number of the Pcv you used, the Passat in 2006 had its own Pcv up to a certain VIN.


I don't have the invoice in front of me. I believe the part# is 06F-129-101-R
VIN: WVWGK73C76P193447


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Why not a new N205 - 06F 109 257 C; https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+n205&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1

You might even have a damaged timing chain tensioner, but you can replace the N205 first and check its wiring while at it. It is unable to keep the cams timed due to lack of signal or the tensioner has reached its limits.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

ROH ECHT said:


> Why not a new N205 - 06F 109 257 C; https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+n205&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
> 
> You might even have a damaged timing chain tensioner, but you can replace the N205 first and check its wiring while at it. It is unable to keep the cams timed due to lack of signal or the tensioner has reached its limits.



Would a failed N205 cause a large amount of oil to be burned? I know the previous owner replaced the cam follower (I have a brand new HPFP in a box that doesn't have a cam follower). I don't know if it failed or if he replaced it preventively. I just read that a failed cam follower can cause the N205 to fail. 

Today I reread this thread : http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-Consumption-Wits-end#/topics/6208303?page=4

That has got me thinking it is the valve cover. The PCV valve I changed it was the original. It was stamped with a date of 08/03/2006. That makes me think the valve cover has got to be original as well. 

Again, I don't know where the logical place to start is. Anyone have a logical place to start?


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

FrustratedPassat said:


> *Would a failed N205 cause a large amount of oil to be burned?* I know the previous owner replaced the cam follower (I have a brand new HPFP in a box that doesn't have a cam follower). I don't know if it failed or if he replaced it preventively. I just read that a failed cam follower can cause the N205 to fail.
> 
> Today I reread this thread : http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...l-Consumption-Wits-end#/topics/6208303?page=4
> 
> ...


*No, but you have more than one issue. *

1) Start with the new rear tube and PCV(←pcv is already new, correct?). If you are no longer venting pressure due to either of those bits having failed, it could easily force oil to blow by the rings and valve seals. I would test that newly installed PCV you just installed because if it has no pressure relief, you could've already destroyed the new PCV. Testing my old PCV...should be open when drawing on it and closed when forcing air into it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jfaD4nrut90&t=65s

2) If those new parts do not solve the oil burning...you can remove the valve cover and inspect the two channels inside for the EVAP and PCV...they go from front to back...my vid shows the area to look at; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0-G5lApFvQ
I didn't have as much oil loss due to what I found as it was minor as though the inner splash plate had just begun to separate from the valve cover. However, it is possible you need a new valve cover...so, might be best to remove and inspect it when you have time for it being down until you get your hands on a new valve cover. I had to rebuild my engine due to worn valve stem seals and a piston ring(2nd compression) stuck in its groove in the #4 piston. 

3) Work on those codes; A new N205 is needed after confirming the wires to it are OK. Give the O2 time to sort itself out...could just be fouled due to all of the oil burning.

4) The previous owner of yours probably replaced the CF because he knew about the problems with our CF wear. I know people do find their CF worn through and just pop in a new one and then sell the car...even though the hpfp and intake cam needs replacing as well. I would inspect the tri-lobe on the intake cam driving the hpfp to be certain it is not worn due to a failed CF. Then I would look at the end of the hpfp piston(with the button cap removed) for wear to see if a previous CF had worn completely through or not. If that is all OK, install the new hpfp with a brand new CF. 

You could go through all of this just to find that yes, it needs the head and/or engine rebuilt due to worn valve stem seals, valve stem guides, and piston rings.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

I removed the valve cover last night and inspected it. There was a small area where the splash guard was coming apart on the side that has the opening. So, I don't know if this would cause the typical oil consumption issue or not. That being said, the passages were full of oil as well as the rear breather tube. I picked up a new valve cover from the stealership this morning. Fingers crossed that this is the culprit.

The rear breather tube does not have a check valve in it, assuming the check valve is on the valve cover side and not on the turbo side. From the pictures of new breather tubes the check valve seems to be on the valve cover end. Can someone confirm this? I read somewhere that the new PCV valves have the check valve in them and that the new breather tubes do not. If this is the case is there any reason to replace the rear breather tube?

ROH ECHT, thank you for your help on this.


----------



## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

Confirmed. The R revision PCV is the older style with two check valves. No need to replace your rear breather tube.



FrustratedPassat said:


> The rear breather tube does not have a check valve in it, assuming the check valve is on the valve cover side and not on the turbo side. From the pictures of new breather tubes the check valve seems to be on the valve cover end. Can someone confirm this? I read somewhere that the new PCV valves have the check valve in them and that the new breather tubes do not. If this is the case is there any reason to replace the rear breather tube?




Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

FrustratedPassat said:


> I removed the valve cover last night and inspected it. There was a small area where the splash guard was coming apart on the side that has the opening. So, I don't know if this would cause the typical oil consumption issue or not. That being said, the passages were full of oil as well as the rear breather tube. I picked up a new valve cover from the stealership this morning. Fingers crossed that this is the culprit.


If I'm understanding how you're describing your findings correctly then you did indeed have the fairly common issue with an aged FSI valve cover wherein the seal between the internal channels of the valve cover are failing and, yes indeed, lots of oil gets to places it is not supposed to go; while this may not be the entire solution to your problems (there were a few) this will definitely at least make an improvement in the oil consumption. If you had a ton of oil in the rear PCV breather you likely have a bunch of oil dumped in your boost piping and intercooler. At some point you may want to drain that out (at least from the boost piping) and clean up as well as you can so that you can later (once you think you've resolved the oil consumption issue) confirm that there is minimal oil collecting in those boost pipes for testing purposes later. As for the intercooler, oil in the intercooler isn't exactly a huge problem, just robs cooling performance a good bit.

As for the rest of the stuff brought up in your thread prior to this post, ROH is totally on the money (as usual) and has given you the best advice. I only have one thing to add: as he said, check the "tri lobe" intake camshaft lobe behind the cam follower for excess wear that could indicate a prior cam follower failure or near-failure (protective coating eroded) BUT ALSO check to see if the cam lobe itself is the revision A or revision B part. This can be easily achieved in 15 minutes by removing the vacuum pump. Revision A is a ticking time bomb (and at your mileage is surely very worn), it is a one-piece design lobe. The revision B is much improved and is distinguishable by the fact that it is a two-piece design lobe. The revision A lobe will eventually wear to the point where fuel pressure supply issues will become an issue. You don't appear to have the problem now but if you have a revision A and plan to keep this car for the long haul you will run into that problem eventually on a revision A lobe, it's practically inevitable. I also bring this up because the revision B replacement was an item that VW scheduled either under an extended warranty provision or as a recall due to how badly the revision A part was designed and proven problematic. If it was just an extended warranty then you're out of luck as the extended warranties tend to expire at 120K miles but it may have been more extended than that OR it may have been a recall. I honestly can't remember the terms but you should definitely look into it because if you can get it done free the procedure also includes a new timing chain and tensioner job which is crucial on these motors (they are also a ticking time bomb). Fun fact, you can get a decent idea of how your timing chain tensioner is doing (that's the failure point of the design) while the vacuum pump is off by using a snake cam or other small optical device. Not as good as taking off the whole timing chain cover obviously but way less work to take off the vacuum pump. If your tensioner is worn to the extent that it is a concern then you'll be able to tell with the vacuum pump off. If you have no record of that tensioner being replaced and if it looks very worn when you inspect it then consider that a priority to change and consider yourself lucky you haven't had a disaster on your hands already if that thing is on the original tensioner because they rarely last that long before timing issues ensue.



> The rear breather tube does not have a check valve in it, assuming the check valve is on the valve cover side and not on the turbo side. From the pictures of new breather tubes the check valve seems to be on the valve cover end. Can someone confirm this? I read somewhere that the new PCV valves have the check valve in them and that the new breather tubes do not. If this is the case is there any reason to replace the rear breather tube?
> 
> ROH ECHT, thank you for your help on this.


Yes, the rear PCV breather tube SHOULD have a check valve at the valve cover end. I am unaware of any design and any reason why a "new breather tube" would not have a check valve. I could be wrong about that but I'm fairly confident. I've seen what I think are the newest revision of rear breather tube and it most definitely had a check valve, although of a different style than the older ones. If you don't have a check valve I'd consider this a problem since the car is in stock PCV form and get a new one. The only reason I can think of off the top of my head that there would not be a check valve is if the car were previously owned by a modder who had a catch can and CAI on because, for reasons not worth getting into, people who run that combination of aftermarket parts find that removing the rear PCV breather's check valve alleviates an issue. So if I'm right about my statement regarding even the newest rear PCV breathers having check valves I'd correct that issue. Mind linking us to your source for where you read that a newest rear PCV breather's have no check valve so I can confirm it?


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

quietA3guy said:


> Confirmed. The R revision PCV is the older style with two check valves. No need to replace your rear breather tube.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He needs to run a particular front PCV for this 2006 model year as pointed out by someone else earlier in this thread (GTIs I think) and as far as I'm aware should run a rear PCV breather with a check valve so his front and rear are 'compatible'. I'm pretty sure it would not be ideal to run the older style front PCV which he is required to run on his model year with some new style rear PCV breather with no check valve, if that exists (haven't heard of it personally). Or maybe I'm getting hung up/confused on this new style rear breather with no check valve that the OP brought up and getting confused on who means what haha.


----------



## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> He needs to run a particular front PCV for this 2006 model year as pointed out by someone else earlier in this thread (GTIs I think) and as far as I'm aware should run a rear PCV breather with a check valve so his front and rear are 'compatible'. I'm pretty sure it would not be ideal to run the older style front PCV which he is required to run on his model year with some new style rear PCV breather with no check valve, if that exists (haven't heard of it personally). Or maybe I'm getting hung up/confused on this new style rear breather with no check valve that the OP brought up and getting confused on who means what haha.


Older fsi's like mine and OP's came from the factory without a check valve in the rear breather valve. Instead they had a second valve in the front PCV that served the same purpose. The R revision PCV that OP posted above is the older style.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

quietA3guy said:


> Older fsi's like mine and OP's came from the factory without a check valve in the rear breather valve. Instead they had a second valve in the front PCV that served the same purpose. The R revision PCV that OP posted above is the older style.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Curious, this is news to me. Short-lived design because my early 07 doesn't have that design. I either misread the post or OP said that the no-check valve rear breather was a "new" design not an old one which confused me in regard to the discussion about the older design front PCV. Thanks for clarifying.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

Thanks to everyone for the great advice and sorry for the confusion on the new vs. old rear breather tube. I can't find the post I found on the breather tube. I've been reading a lot the past few days, trying to figure these issues out. Very likely I got myself confused with everything I have read and the lack of sleep (staying up late scouring for videos and posts).

Drum roll please...... I got the valve cover on this afternoon with the new PCV valve. The initial test drive looks promising. I have still got some smoke from time to time, most likely residual oil being burnt off. There used to be clouds billowing out the back, now there is the occasional puff. I've got my fingers crossed that the residual burns off quickly and all is well with the burning oil issue. 

I had read a bunch of posts where guys were getting the smoke after they had installed a catch can. I wonder how many of these were valve cover issues that had been masked by a failing PCV.

So, how do I go about removing the boost pipes and where are they located? Where is the best place to find reference material to answer questions like these? Are there factory service manuals available?

Aside from some torx screws are there any special tools needed to remove the vacuum pump?


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

FrustratedPassat said:


> Thanks to everyone for the great advice and sorry for the confusion on the new vs. old rear breather tube. I can't find the post I found on the breather tube. I've been reading a lot the past few days, trying to figure these issues out. Very likely I got myself confused with everything I have read and the lack of sleep (staying up late scouring for videos and posts).
> 
> Drum roll please...... I got the valve cover on this afternoon with the new PCV valve. The initial test drive looks promising. I have still got some smoke from time to time, most likely residual oil being burnt off. There used to be clouds billowing out the back, now there is the occasional puff. I've got my fingers crossed that the residual burns off quickly and all is well with the burning oil issue.
> 
> ...



The boost pipes I am referring to are just the large pipes going from the turbo to the intercooler and the intercooler through the throttle body. They can be easily accessed once the splash guard is off. As for the vacuum pump, no special tools required. Just T25 and T30 torx if I recall correctly. The N205, however, if you were planning to replace that, requires a triple-square. I can't remember what size but it is small.

There are service manuals but the official service manual for the B6 Passat by Bentley is only electronic and it is not particularly useful at all except for fuse and electrical diagrams. I find myself using the forums faaaaar more than any service manual or similar resource.

As for the valve cover/oil leak thing... yeah it should burn off and we'll know more soon, agreed. How did you go about replacing the valve cover gasket. Did you make sure you cleaned the mating surface well and did you use RTV or no? A little RTV on the corners and the half-moon portion is okay but only a little. It's technically not supposed to get any RTV, just a little layer of fresh oil (similar to how you lube an o-ring) is technically the "factory" way to do it. Hopefully you had a clean mating surface and did not overuse RTV or you may find yourself with a leak sooner than later.


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Since you may be checking the boost pipes...you could jack up the driver's side, let it sit that way for a bit, then disconnect the fmic inlet hose...on the passenger side seen in the next pic linked below. This should make oil pool near that connection...where once disconnected, you may be able to absorb most of the oil inside that you will find inside both the hose and fmic port. You might consider getting a new seal(3C0-145-117-F) for the hose coupler to install since going to be right there. 

http://i.imgur.com/ckMsX.png
Look at the bit circled in red ↑ ...this is the fmic to throttle body hose. Look to the left and you will see the other hose end that is identical to the one in red...that is the turbo to fmic hose you can disconnect from underneath for your clean up. The alloy ends of those hoses each have a seal(3C0-145-117-F) on them. Check out figure #5: https://cdn4.pelicanparts.com/techa...y_Cleaning_Replacement/images_small/pic05.jpg ...this clip is easy to work, just grab the ear(red arrow points to it) of the clip with a hook or other tool that allows you to pull the clip outward. It doesn't come all of the way off but once you have it pulled out to its stops...you can disconnect the hose.

Regarding the proper, per your VIN, *oem pcv and rear breather*...best to use oem vs aftermarket for these. There have been so many revisions of these and you do not want an aftermarket version that may be a copy of an older revision not having the better design. The double check valve pcv should no longer be available. You can see it if it does have the second check valve. With the pcv removed from the valve cover...look at the pcv's mating surface to the valve cover. It will be just inside the port furthest right...it will be a disc seal having a center post/tail. If not there, you should see nothing mounted although the mounting hole for the check valve will still exist (circled in RED) below. You can see this has no second check valve mounted furthest to the right but still had the hole for it:


----------



## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

FrustratedPassat said:


> Are there factory service manuals available?


For simple stuff on my Audi A3 I use the Bentley paper manual for the vw gti. http://www.bentleypublishers.com/vo...on/vw-rabbit-gti-2006-2009-repair-manual.html

Anything complicated I will get a one hour subscription to Erwin and take screen grabs of what I need.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

ROH ECHT said:


> Regarding the proper, per your VIN, *oem pcv and rear breather*...best to use oem vs aftermarket for these. There have been so many revisions of these and you do not want an aftermarket version that may be a copy of an older revision not having the better design. The double check valve pcv should no longer be available. You can see it if it does have the second check valve. With the pcv removed from the valve cover...look at the pcv's mating surface to the valve cover. It will be just inside the port furthest right...it will be a disc seal having a center post/tail. If not there, you should see nothing mounted although the mounting hole for the check valve will still exist (circled in RED) below. You can see this has no second check valve mounted furthest to the right but still had the hole for it:


ROH, thanks for the great info. The version R of the PCV valve I got from the dealer has the second check valve.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> As for the valve cover/oil leak thing... yeah it should burn off and we'll know more soon, agreed. How did you go about replacing the valve cover gasket. Did you make sure you cleaned the mating surface well and did you use RTV or no? A little RTV on the corners and the half-moon portion is okay but only a little. It's technically not supposed to get any RTV, just a little layer of fresh oil (similar to how you lube an o-ring) is technically the "factory" way to do it. Hopefully you had a clean mating surface and did not overuse RTV or you may find yourself with a leak sooner than later.


THY, thanks for your help here. Soooo, I cleaned the mating surface with brake cleaner on a lint free shop towel. I also used a razor blade, making sure not to gouge or scratch the surface, to ensure there were no leftovers from the previous seal. Where I may have gone wrong is, I did not use any oil on the surface. Do I need to pull the valve cover and do this?


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

quietA3guy said:


> For simple stuff on my Audi A3 I use the Bentley paper manual for the vw gti. http://www.bentleypublishers.com/vo...on/vw-rabbit-gti-2006-2009-repair-manual.html
> 
> Anything complicated I will get a one hour subscription to Erwin and take screen grabs of what I need.


That is a great idea. I was not aware of Erwin. Is this what the dealership uses? I see the option for a one-day subscription. How to you do the 1-hour subscription?


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

I took a detour on the way home last night to get some extra miles/drive time on the new vlave cover/PCV. The smoking was all but gone. So onto the next issue.

The latest DTCs were P0441 and the P000A returned. I picked up a new N80 from the dealership this morning and through it on. This looked to be the original as the pinch clamps were still on there. Although I reinstalled using pinch clamps so can't be sure someone hasn't done that in the past. I tried to pull the N205 and got stuck/stopped by lack of clearance by the coolant line. I didn't have a triple square to get the coolant line out of the way. There was oil inside the electrical connection, is this indicative of a failed N205?

The other new issue is the pool of oil I now have on the skid plate/cover thing. It appears to be dead center and coming off the back. Although it may just be running to the lowest point there. When looking at the N205 I noticed the vacuum pump was leaking. I have ordered new o-rings/seals for the vacuum pump. Where else could the leak be coming from?

Thanks again for all your help, you guys are freaking awesome!


----------



## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

FrustratedPassat said:


> That is a great idea. I was not aware of Erwin. Is this what the dealership uses? I see the option for a one-day subscription. How to you do the 1-hour subscription?


Yes, factory manuals.
Sorry they call the one hour use a "flat rate" not subscription. Available for 7 euros.
https://erwin.volkswagen.de/erwin/showOrderFlatrate.do

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

FrustratedPassat said:


> I took a detour on the way home last night to get some extra miles/drive time on the new vlave cover/PCV. The smoking was all but gone. So onto the next issue.
> 
> The latest DTCs were P0441 and the P000A returned. I picked up a new N80 from the dealership this morning and through it on. This looked to be the original as the pinch clamps were still on there. Although I reinstalled using pinch clamps so can't be sure someone hasn't done that in the past. I tried to pull the N205 and got stuck/stopped by lack of clearance by the coolant line. I didn't have a triple square to get the coolant line out of the way. There was oil inside the electrical connection, is this indicative of a failed N205?
> 
> ...


I would guess the oil is the issue for the original N205 error code. Oil is now coming from the inside out. Oil will foul its connection and the N205 may have failed in another way as well. So, yes, the N205 is failed in my opinion. 

Other place of possible leaking...the oil filter housing seal; this guy: https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/bkoAAOSw4GVYMzBt/s-l640.jpg


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

ROH ECHT said:


> I would guess the oil is the issue for the original N205 error code. Oil is now coming from the inside out. Oil will foul its connection and the N205 may have failed in another way as well. So, yes, the N205 is failed in my opinion.
> 
> Other place of possible leaking...the oil filter housing seal; this guy: https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/bkoAAOSw4GVYMzBt/s-l640.jpg


I have ordered a new N205 off Amazon that will be here tomorrow. Is this a part where aftermarket parts are acceptable (unlike the PCV valve)? Do I need to address some other issue before installing the new N205? 




ROH ECHT said:


> Why not a new N205 - 06F 109 257 C; https://www.google.com/search?q=vw+n205&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1
> 
> You might even have a damaged timing chain tensioner, but you can *replace the N205 first and check its wiring while at it.* It is unable to keep the cams timed due to lack of signal or the tensioner has reached its limits.


How do I check the wiring for the N205? Can I use brake cleaner to clean the electrical connections?


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

FrustratedPassat said:


> THY, thanks for your help here. Soooo, I cleaned the mating surface with brake cleaner on a lint free shop towel. I also used a razor blade, making sure not to gouge or scratch the surface, to ensure there were no leftovers from the previous seal. Where I may have gone wrong is, I did not use any oil on the surface. Do I need to pull the valve cover and do this?


I'd let it go for now, take care of the other issues and then circle back to the valve cover gasket later IF you are continuing to loose oil. For the next month or two I'd just be really on top of checking your oil level and also probably weekly pull the engine cover to have a peak all around (especially including the back end) of the valve cover/gasket mating area and ensure there is no leaking or significant oil vapor settling in the area. This of course means you would be wise to degrease and thoroughly clean all those areas first so you can accurately tell if it is leaking later. Check on that soon just in case your gasket install was bad already.

Other possibility for common leak point is exactly as ROH said, the oil filter housing block. Haven't had the displeasure on my car thankfully but seen it on sooo many other FSIs. 

The vac pump very well could be your only source though. A significant vac pump leak would leak down the side of the block, pool on top of the trans and then flow out from there to appear to be "dead center and coming off the back" as you said. I had a leak from the cam timing chain cover itself (which is what the vac pump bolts onto so very close to the same place) and it was presenting itself similarly to how you describe.




> I have ordered a new N205 off Amazon that will be here tomorrow. Is this a part where aftermarket parts are acceptable (unlike the PCV valve)? Do I need to address some other issue before installing the new N205?


P000A is a classic bad N205 issue and it's just like ROH said, that thing is likely fouled and needs to be replaced. I'd get right to it on installing a new N205. BUT absolutely DO NOT install and aftermarket N205, this is not by any stretch a part you want to skimp on. These cars have variable camshaft timing and part of the variability is dynamically achieved via oil pressure delivered in that cam chain housing to the tensioner, etc. The N205 is an integral part and it is for this reason that a bad N205 can throw timing related codes and lead to serious problems. I would NOT trust anything other than an OEM part for this crucial job.


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Addendum to previous post:

I might have a used but totally good vac pump and seals in my parts bin, 90% sure I still have it. I can't remember for sure but if you're interested I can check.

Oh and btw, FCP Euro and VWPartsVortex are some of the cheapest places I know to get OEM parts. Although I get most things on Amazon for cheap car parts is usually not one of them.


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Disregard.... accidental extra post. See previous 2 posts...


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Addendum to previous post:
> 
> I might have a used but totally good vac pump and seals in my parts bin, 90% sure I still have it. I can't remember for sure but if you're interested I can check.


Yeah, when you get a chance check for me.



Thy_Harrowing said:


> Oh and btw, FCP Euro and VWPartsVortex are some of the cheapest places I know to get OEM parts. Although I get most things on Amazon for cheap car parts is usually not one of them.


I was in the middle of asking about getting this from a dealership vs. OEM spec from a good source when you posted this. I will order an OEM one from one of these sources.

Thanks for the help.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

ROH ECHT said:


> I would guess the oil is the issue for the original N205 error code. Oil is now coming from the inside out. Oil will foul its connection and the N205 may have failed in another way as well. So, yes, the N205 is failed in my opinion.





Thy_Harrowing said:


> I'd get right to it on installing a new N205. BUT absolutely DO NOT install and aftermarket N205, this is not by any stretch a part you want to skimp on. These cars have variable camshaft timing and part of the variability is dynamically achieved via oil pressure delivered in that cam chain housing to the tensioner, etc. The N205 is an integral part and it is for this reason that a bad N205 can throw timing related codes and lead to serious problems. I would NOT trust anything other than an OEM part for this crucial job.


I replaced the N205 with the cheapy I got off Amazon. Folks on Amazon seemed to have good luck with it and it was already on order so I thought I would use it until I get everything else straightened out. Then I can order an OEM one. I have put about 50 miles on since replacing it this afternoon and all seems well. If this cheapy fails or does not operate with in spec, shouldn't I get another P000A?



Thy_Harrowing said:


> The vac pump very well could be your only source though.


I got the new seals put in today and then drove it around a good bit. There were no obvious leaks. That being said, the engine needs a good degreasing before I can say things are buttoned up for sure. Any recomendations on how to go about degreasing without screwing things up? Recomendations on products to use?



ROH ECHT said:


> Other place of possible leaking...the oil filter housing seal; this guy: https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/bkoAAOSw4GVYMzBt/s-l640.jpg


I got that seal in today. Thankfully it appears that the vacuum pump was the culprit.


Now for the next issue :banghead::banghead::banghead:

The P0441 has returned. I checked that the electrical connections were tight and that all looked visibly well. I noticed that if I keep the car at a constant speed, with or without the aid of cruise control, that I get this surge. At freeway speeds niether the speed or the RPMs change. However at say 35MPH, the RPMs are changing with the surge. Could this be related to the P0441?


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

FrustratedPassat said:


> I replaced the N205 with the cheapy I got off Amazon. Folks on Amazon seemed to have good luck with it and it was already on order so I thought I would use it until I get everything else straightened out. Then I can order an OEM one. I have put about 50 miles on since replacing it this afternoon and all seems well. If this cheapy fails or does not operate with in spec, shouldn't I get another P000A?


One would think but I wouldn't take the chance either way, personally. I see your logic behind putting it in for now to test and then replacing with OEM later when you have things sorted (hopefully sooner than later). I am still dubious about a cheapy N205 but it is what it is. What is the manufacturer of this cheapy N205 by the way?





> I got the new seals put in today and then drove it around a good bit. There were no obvious leaks. That being said, the engine needs a good degreasing before I can say things are buttoned up for sure. Any recomendations on how to go about degreasing without screwing things up? Recomendations on products to use?


Basically just keep it away from electrical connectors and the like is all. I use "simple green" degreaser, nothing fancy. It'll get the job done.





> I got that seal in today. Thankfully it appears that the vacuum pump was the culprit.
> 
> 
> Now for the next issue :banghead::banghead::banghead:
> ...


Could be related, or might be something else, hard to say for sure. If everything else is sorted out (as it seems to be) then I'd pursue this P0441 and you'll find out one way or the other. If the surge winds up being illusive you may want to borrow VCDS or similar data logging tool if you're not already using it and log some data (would walk you through that if/when the time comes) to see what stands out.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

I took a chance and drove the Passat home today (I work 250 miles from home at the moment and commute home on the weekend). I cleared the CEL codes before leaving. About half way home the CEL came on with a code of P0299 (Boost Pressure Regulation: Control Range Not Reached). Diverted valve? Did this be tied to the surge I'm feeling? 

I cleared the code and it did not show up again the rest of the way home. The evap code didn't pop either. I did get an O2 code that popped, but the issue below explains that one. 

The bigger concern is that I burned through 2 quarts of oil to get home (250 miles). I thought the valve cover was the culprit! What now? 

Someone else on this forum verbalized it perfectly: "Please help before I wash this car in gasoline and dry it with a match!" 



Sent from my SM-J727VPP using Tapatalk


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

*Anyone know of a priest that will perform exorcisms on cars?*

So I drove the Passat back to Boise, ID yesterday, 250 mile trip. Instead of burning 2 qts. of oil it was only 3/4 of a quart. There was only one time that it smoked on the interstate and that was going down hill. It would smoke a little bit when I was off the interstate, pulling away from stops and such. So I'm thinking I am headed in the right direction and I'm thinking I might be dealing with stuck rings.

I drove it in to work this morning and tried to get it to smoke. After letting everything get to temperature I performed the "Italian tune", no smoke WOT all the way up to 80MPH. I then drove in a lower gear all the way to work (15 minutes on the interstate) to maintain higher RPMs to let everything work as much as possible. I couldn't get it to smoke at all on or off the interstate. So I am pretty optimistic as I'm pulling in the parking lot. Then as I am circling the lot I get the oil pressure warning, ya know the one, "TURN OFF THE ENGINE OR THIS BABY IS GOING TO SELF DESTRUCT!" and a puff of smoke out the back. I stopped, checked the oil level waited a few, started it back up and the next time I went around the end of a row it cam on again. I took it back on the road at 20mph or so and no warning. Then back in the lot and the same thing, circling the end of a row at low speed and low RPM and I get the warning!


 WTF? :banghead::banghead::banghead:


*So now I'm thinking I need a good priest, not a good mechanic. These aren't mechanical issues, these are demons I'm dealing with!*


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

Now, with the occasional puffs of smoke. What you are describing seems very familiar to me. Mine would only smoke after having gone full throttle when coasting to lower mph with it in a low gear and when I would take off from a stop following this. It got to where it would burn a qt of oil in under 1k miles. I decided I would rebuild the head and inspect the rings while the head was off getting rebuilt. The machine shop found the valve stem guides and seals worn and sloppy fitting. Then we found one piston ring stuck in the #4 piston. Since the rebuild, it doesn't burn "0.5qt/5k miles". I went through it all prior to deciding on the rebuild. EVAP reroute, new valve cover, new pcv and rear tube after removing my BSH stage-1 PCV, compression test, and probably more. I believe the rebuild for the head plus the new piston, rings, and rod bearings all went for under $3k...and that was with discounted VW labor. I believe the breakdown was about $475 for the head, valve stem guides and seals....and about $2100 for the piston, rings, and rod bearings plus the dismantling and reassembly by VW.


----------



## FrustratedPassat (Jan 29, 2018)

ROH ECHT said:


> Now, with the occasional puffs of smoke. What you are describing seems very familiar to me. Mine would only smoke after having gone full throttle when coasting to lower mph with it in a low gear and when I would take off from a stop following this. It got to where it would burn a qt of oil in under 1k miles. I decided I would rebuild the head and inspect the rings while the head was off getting rebuilt. The machine shop found the valve stem guides and seals worn and sloppy fitting. Then we found one piston ring stuck in the #4 piston. Since the rebuild, it doesn't burn "0.5qt/5k miles". I went through it all prior to deciding on the rebuild. EVAP reroute, new valve cover, new pcv and rear tube after removing my BSH stage-1 PCV, compression test, and probably more. I believe the rebuild for the head plus the new piston, rings, and rod bearings all went for under $3k...and that was with discounted VW labor. I believe the breakdown was about $475 for the head, valve stem guides and seals....and about $2100 for the piston, rings, and rod bearings plus the dismantling and reassembly by VW.


I don't like your tone! 

Assume that I could do all of the work myself, aside from rebuilding the head. Is this doable? Pull the head, pull the oil pan, pull the pistons, re-hone if necessary, and re-assemble. I would probably need some special tools, I assume I could pick these up without too much expense. The cost to have the head rebuilt, new piston rings, seals, timing belt, etc. would be $1000 to $1500? This car has $180k miles on it (it could also be possessed by demonic beings). Would I be throwing good money after bad? What fails next and what is the price tag on that? Is it time to cut and run? Or is it a good bet that I would have a solid engine that would give me another 100k miles? This car has the 6-speed manual transmission so the transmission doesn't concern me, maybe it should. The remaining high dollar concern would be the turbo and electronics. How many 2.0t fsi are there out there with 250k -300k miles?


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

FrustratedPassat said:


> I don't like your tone!
> 
> Assume that I could do all of the work myself, aside from rebuilding the head. Is this doable? Pull the head, pull the oil pan, pull the pistons, re-hone if necessary, and re-assemble. I would probably need some special tools, I assume I could pick these up without too much expense. The cost to have the head rebuilt, new piston rings, seals, timing belt, etc. would be $1000 to $1500? This car has $180k miles on it (it could also be possessed by demonic beings). Would I be throwing good money after bad? What fails next and what is the price tag on that? Is it time to cut and run? Or is it a good bet that I would have a solid engine that would give me another 100k miles? This car has the 6-speed manual transmission so the transmission doesn't concern me, maybe it should. The remaining high dollar concern would be the turbo and electronics. How many 2.0t fsi are there out there with 250k -300k miles?


If you conclude that you need to do rebuild I'd personally cut and run. It would be a different story if I knew everything about the vehicles history and had good maintenance logs that hit on a few key areas, then I'd be more comfortable with taking a gamble on it making it another 100K without significant issues. It seems to me you don't have that kind of history and assurance on this vehicle, and even if you did you'd still be taking your chances because, unlike things you can look into and also do preventatively for cheap (e.g. cam timing chain/tensioner), there are some areas for these platforms that you just have to completely cross your fingers on (e.g. oil pump/balance shaft unit which costs $1500 just for the part). And then there's the typical VW electrical gremlins that inevitably rear there heads eventually, especially as time goes on for older cars.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. Be it known, however, that I'm NOT a huge risk taker when it comes to cars, my time, and my money though. Some folks have a higher bar for that than me.


----------



## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Oh and regarding your the transmission question... yeah that would be lesser on my list of concerns. It's not bulletproof, there are some things but they are probably not really worth getting into because they're generally pretty few and far between, especially if you're not beating the **** out of it.

As for the "how many FSI are around with 250K - 300K"... my bet is: not many. But that's not necessarily because they can't make it, more so that there aren't many vehicle owners out there that give them enough TLC to make it. VWs just take a little more TLC than some makes but they can and do go that far for sure if they get it. So the answer is skewed by the fact that there aren't so many out there that are willing to make sure theirs does indeed make it that far.

Now you might be that kind of owner that gives your vehicles attentiveness and TLC but the problem (and part of the reason I said I'd cut and run above) is that vehicle has already done 180K of its life with an owner/owners who in ALL likelihood DO NOT. And that is PLENTY of time to doom a vehicles chances of making it (affordably) to 250-300K.

Just my .02, there may be folks who have a different take on all this than me and they may have good reason for it too. There's not always a clear answer to these sorta matters.


----------



## ROH ECHT (Dec 9, 2010)

I would probably get out, because I am not in love with your possessed beast , unless this is one you want to keep. You could get a fairly decent used VW for just a bit more than expenses will likely reach rebuilding. I'm looking at MK7 Golf R's dropping to or below $20k range within two more years . I've had my GTI since Nov. '06 and always planned on keeping it forever and take great care of it for that reason...plus, thinking even a brand new engine or transmission costs less than a new car. So, it is really up to you and your plans with this one.


----------

