# 2009 CC Cold Start Misfire. Out of ideas. Mechanic recommends Engine Harness.



## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

Hey guys, i know this topic has been talked about to death but hopefully i can get a few answers from a few of you that have had the same problem. 

My car: 
-2009 CC 
-5 Speed 
-54,000 mi 
-Bought the car at 41,000 mi 
-Use Rotella T6 since i bought the car with appropriate Mann filters from Amazon. 
-Always use premium gas but recently switched to Shell V-Power exclusively 
-not chipped 
-TSI 

My symptoms: 
-Cold Start rough idle. Misfire. Throws code P0302. 
-Once it warms up the car drives MUCH better. Maybe almost perfect but i still think i feel a tiny bit of hesitation. 
-Only throws a code when it's cold. 
-Worst when climbing a hill. 
-Before i took it to my mechanic it started to throw the random, 1 and 4 cylinder misfire too but it was infrequent. Haven't seen those come back since i got it back from the mechanic. 
-hesitation mostly occurs between 2250 rpms 

What i did trying to fix it: 
-New spark plugs (tried two sets, one were NGK and ones i got from the dealer) 
-New ignition coils (4) 
-bottle of generic injector cleaner additive to my gas tank. 
-bottle on BG44K to my gas tank. 

What the mechanic did: 
-Ran two fluids through to clean the injectors. Pretty standard stuff. Light came back on 
-replaced 2nd cylinder injector. Light came back on. 
-I stressed so much about carbon build up maybe being an issue that he said that they looked and there was no build up and that is not the problem. 
-He looked through other possible fixes and one was listed. PCM. No thanks. and plus he said there were 2 in the country when he called the dealer. Meaning, they probably don't have many problems associated with them. When VW knows they got a problem, they have a bunch and they are significantly cheaper 
-He mentioned that he had a similar problem with an older car, not sure if it was a passat or not, that he had to replace the engine wire harness. There are 20 in the area (minnesota) and was $265 from the dealer. Considering they are usually over a grand he thinks this could be the problem. 

I scoured the interweb looking for any sign of these giving problems and i could find anything. I definitely don't want to spend $265 plus labor on a hunch. 

I've held back on running Seafoam through the intake simply because I've heard too many people say it doesn't do anything. Sure some people will swear by it but there has been no evidence of either. I read some people did seafoam before cleaning the valves and the valves were filthy. But no before and after photos. Really, who wants to spend the time with the intake? 

I'm hoping for any type of information to help in this endeavor. Thanks Guys.


----------



## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

Fuel injector cleaner won't help carbon buildup on valves. You need to pull the manifold and scrub valves. 


Sent from my iDevice


----------



## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

DasCC said:


> Fuel injector cleaner won't help carbon buildup on valves. You need to pull the manifold and scrub valves.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iDevice


 The injector cleaner was to clean the injectors. My mechanic thought it was an injector problem. So when he was replacing the cylinder 2 injector i asked him to look at the valves for carbon buildup. he said that they were fine and that's not where the problem lies.


----------



## Ween2010 (Sep 12, 2009)

Not sure if this is relevant to your issue or not, but mine was throwing codes and I had some hesitation and very rough idle. Mine ended up being a bad fuel pump, and bad intake manifold. Apparently there is a part that moves in the manifold and mine was not moving. Causing bad fuel/air mix. My codes were the following. 

p2015 intake manifold runner position sensor static 
p2187 system too lean at idle 
p119a fuel pressure sensor 
p0507 rpm higher than expected


----------



## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

Ween2010 said:


> Not sure if this is relevant to your issue or not, but mine was throwing codes and I had some hesitation and very rough idle. Mine ended up being a bad fuel pump, and bad intake manifold. Apparently there is a part that moves in the manifold and mine was not moving. Causing bad fuel/air mix. My codes were the following.
> 
> p2015 intake manifold runner position sensor static
> p2187 system too lean at idle
> ...


 Thanks for the response. But no, the only code i'm getting right now is P0302. Probably not the same fix. Fuel pump was something that I initially thought it could be (back when i had hesitation and no codes).


----------



## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

The symptoms you are describing is what happened to me in the weeks leading up to the failure of my intake manifold. I had cold start sputtering at low rpms and intermittent rough idle and then started getting misfires. This unfolded over about 4 months until I finally got the intake manifold failure code. And I have a 2009 and many of those came with the old, failure prone design of the intake manifold. 

I also have an engine hesitation right around 2500 rpms. Had it before the IM failed and still have it after, but no CELs. If you ever figure out what is causing your hesitation and it isn't the IM, pls post your results. You can see my thread about my issues: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5606974-Engine-hiccup-at-2750k. A lot of people with GLIs also have an engine hesitation at the same rpms: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5738721-GLI-Misfire-(-)-2200-RPM.


----------



## G-ReaL (Mar 3, 2009)

I had these same symptoms with my car and I will tell how I fixed it. 

1. We thought it was my injectors so we ended up changing all of them and that fixed the issue temporarily with my cold start misfires...but it started again. 

2. My mechanic and I started to brain stormed and read up on carbon build up with these motors...The last thing was the manifold which I already replaced... 

3. The last thing we checked was Carbon Build up on the valves and DING DING DING!!! It was pretty bad and we had to scrape each valve while it was close and then sprayed an intake combustion cleaner. 

I would definitely recommend to have him look at the valves again because I did this cleaning about 8 months ago and I haven't had any issues. 

Just my .02 cents  Hope you figure it out!!!


----------



## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

I would look into the valves again too. Maybe get some pix of what the build up looks like. 50k is a little early but not crazy to have it be a possibility 

Sent from my EVO 4G


----------



## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

irongrey said:


> The symptoms you are describing is what happened to me in the weeks leading up to the failure of my intake manifold. I had cold start sputtering at low rpms and intermittent rough idle and then started getting misfires. This unfolded over about 4 months until I finally got the intake manifold failure code. And I have a 2009 and many of those came with the old, failure prone design of the intake manifold.
> 
> I also have an engine hesitation right around 2500 rpms. Had it before the IM failed and still have it after, but no CELs. If you ever figure out what is causing your hesitation and it isn't the IM, pls post your results. You can see my thread about my issues: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5606974-Engine-hiccup-at-2750k. A lot of people with GLIs also have an engine hesitation at the same rpms: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5738721-GLI-Misfire-(-)-2200-RPM.





G-ReaL said:


> I had these same symptoms with my car and I will tell how I fixed it.
> 
> 1. We thought it was my injectors so we ended up changing all of them and that fixed the issue temporarily with my cold start misfires...but it started again.
> 
> ...





Bill6211789 said:


> I would look into the valves again too. Maybe get some pix of what the build up looks like. 50k is a little early but not crazy to have it be a possibility
> 
> Sent from my EVO 4G


 
Irongrey - haha, I've got both those pages bookmarked and I've read through your issues a few times. I think I've pretty much covered every thread related to this issue and i do realize that pretty much all of them point toward carbon build up. 

As everything points me there i guess i should take the time to pull the intake. Not overjoyed about doing it simply because of time and possible injector related problems after. And i'll have to buy the injector seal kits. I'm really trying to keep this as cheap as possible, but who wouldn't. 

Steelcurtain has a great DIY which doesn't sound too technical just could take some time to get at every bolt. I just need the right tools. I have the triple square #10 already. Looks like i'll try to get this done on the weekend. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5355100-TSI-Intake-Manifold-Removal-DIY-Valve-Cleaning


----------



## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

dougfalk said:


> Irongrey - haha, I've got both those pages bookmarked and I've read through your issues a few times. I think I've pretty much covered every thread related to this issue and i do realize that pretty much all of them point toward carbon build up.
> 
> As everything points me there i guess i should take the time to pull the intake. Not overjoyed about doing it simply because of time and possible injector related problems after. And i'll have to buy the injector seal kits. I'm really trying to keep this as cheap as possible, but who wouldn't.
> 
> ...


 Well keep us posted. Personally, I doubt carbon build up on the valves is the issue (with the engine hesitation issue at 2500 rpms). After my intake manifold was replaced, the shop foreman hand scraped my valves clean and within a few months, the engine hesitation began to return. And did I mention it gets worse in hot weather? But I would love it if you proved me wrong.


----------



## pauly az (Jul 10, 2012)

Power train is 60000 miles get the new motor warranty 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


----------



## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

pauly az said:


> Power train is 60000 miles get the new motor warranty
> 
> Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


 I'm not sure what you mean.


----------



## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

irongrey said:


> Well keep us posted. Personally, I doubt carbon build up on the valves is the issue (with the engine hesitation issue at 2500 rpms). After my intake manifold was replaced, the shop foreman hand scraped my valves clean and within a few months, the engine hesitation began to return. And did I mention it gets worse in hot weather? But I would love it if you proved me wrong.


 I'm worried that it won't be, i know you've been at this a while. I'm curious to know if your intake is going again and you just got a bad part. 

The possible differences i see with ours are: 
-I get a code P0302. 
-In the past before my injector cleaning i also got p0300, 01, 04 
-My rough idle is during the start up at teh high idle phase. Once it passes that, it smooths out. with a very very subtle burp which i can't say for certain is a problem because i'm anticipating it. 
-I don't think warm weather has anything to do with my problem. I'm up in MN and it's been cold here lately.


----------



## dougfalk (Apr 14, 2009)

Just got the job done. I didn't think that the valves were TOO bad. I cleaned them (not insanely however) and when i started the car back up there was NO rough idle. It was SMOOTH. I took it for a drive around the block and she drove perfectly. Looks like it was indeed the problem. I'll call my mechanic Monday and let him know. 

The pictures i took didn't come out great but i'll put them up here when i get some more time. I only took pics of the dirty valves.

Thanks everyone for their thoughts. Irongrey, i hope you get yours solved. I know how uneasy it was making me feel so i feel for ya. If you got questions, i'll do my best to help you out. I'm afraid you've been living this a little longer than i have tho.


----------

