# VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL



## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

My Touareg has been in to the dealer multiple times for the drivetrain binding and chattering. While the stepper motor replacement, control module replacement and reprogramming have reduced the severity of the problem, it is still quite evident.
Now my dealer tells me that VWoA says that some binding and chatter is normal and that they have been instructed to conclude the service, note the problem as being resolved and return the vehicle to me.
The vehicle has less than 11,000 miles on it and the SECOND set of front tires are beginning to show abnormal wear on the inner treads. (The first were replaced for the same excessive wear.)
So if your Touareg is binding and chattering in low speed sharp turns and tearing up the front tires, you can now rest comfortably knowing that VWoA has deemed this to be NORMAL and that it does not need to be repaired.
So I guess the 7500-mile life expectancy of the front tires is also normal and I hope I don't have to find out if the 50,000-mile $20,000 transmission replacement or $6000 transfer case replacement is also normal.
And if you cannot tell, yes I am upset!


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## spikeital (May 21, 2001)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

Neloho,
Sorry to hear your problems. I would call VWoA and file a complaint. On my V6 Treg they tried to Flash the TCM and it would take for like a day or less then the old programming came back. They needed to replace the actual TCM. Did they replace your TCM as well? In my new V8 there is no Binding at all when I turn the wheel so I won't let them off the hook at all with that explanation. Have you tried another dealer?
BrianVW you around to maybe offer any suggestions to this?
Thanks,
Spikeital


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## dsacks (Apr 16, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

Given how "normal" it is, I'm sure your dealer and/or vwoa would be happy to give you a drive in a brand new high vin similarly equipped touareg and show you that this one does exactly the same thing.
I.E. -- demand that they show you that a new car on the lot has the same "normal" binding and chatter yours suffers from.


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

We have been talking with VWoA about this for a over a week. The dealer has been fantastic, but their hands are tied. Even though they agree with us that there is still a problem, they have been instructed by VWoA to "conclude the service, note the problem as being resolved and return the vehicle".
Since the binding and chatter are now considered normal, I suppose that all of you with Touaregs that do not bind and chatter during low-speed tight turns should schedule a service to have the binding and chattering feature enabled on your Touareg.


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## TREGinginCO (Jan 4, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

Three words:
HIRE AN ATTORNEY!!!!

VWoA knows that binding is a problem, or they wouldn't have issued TSB's for the Stepper Motor, The Transmission Control Module, and even going as far as ordering the replacement of thousands of Transfer Cases.
If VW wants to play this game, you have a huge paper trail - from VW - to beat them over the head.
Check out: http://www.lemonlawamerica.com and my guess is you'll find an attorney willing to help you out.
As for VWoA - YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED!!! THIS IS NOT A NORMAL CONDITION OF THE TOUAREG AND YOU KNOW IT!!!


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (TREGinginCO)*

Neloho, if you're interested in talking to a lawyer, and don't have one already, you might go to lawyers.findlaw.com and do a search for Visalia or maybe Fresno to find someone you can sit down with. You could use any California attorney, but in your case I think it would be good for you to be able to show your lawyer the problem.
A certain amount of chatter coming from the transfer case or center diff, as in noise, is common in many many Touaregs. I've heard it several that I've driven and in several that have driven by me on the street. But it isn't present in all of them, so it's an interesting argument as to whether or not it's "normal." Imo, depends on if it's just a noise. In your case, it seems like more than a noise because you refer to binding and abnormal tire wear. Probably a good idea to consult with a lawyer.


_Modified by PabloP at 1:39 PM 8-25-2004_


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## ShagNasty (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (PabloP)*

EDIT: I didnt see that you have already replaced the control module and motor so the below may not help you. I'll leave it up for others to see though.
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From Technical Service Bulletin 39-04-02 (BP Recall)
Dated: June 21, 2004
Subject: During low speed turns/maneuvering vehicle feels as if it is binding/tires scrubbing
Models: 2004 Touareg 
For Vehicles from VIN: 4D000001 to 4D040953
-----------
I can't/won't type the entire TSB but here is the jist of what is involved.
---
Check Part Number on Differential motor -V253- (see sticker on motor).
If Part Number is 0AD 341 601A: Check the part number in the differential control module using 5051/2.
Check Differential Control Module -J646- Part Number using VAS 5051 / VAS 5052 Diagnostic tool:
If Differential Control Module -J646- Part No. is 0AD 927 755AB:
No further action is required.
If Differential Control Module -J646- Part No. is NOT 0AD 927 755AB:
Perform Differential Control Module -J646- Flashing procedure

If Part Number is NOT 0AD 341 601A: Install Differential motor -V253- Part No: 0AD 341 601A with new gasket
---
So basically you could have 1 of 3 problems:
-Your differential control module needs to be reflashed
-Your differential control module needs to be replaced
-Your differential control module AND differential motor need to be replaced
This might be your problem as we have seen many Touaregs with the same complaint that you have, as far as tire wear and chatter is concerned.
This might help, not sure if it applies to your VIN or not but you should ask the dealership about it. Just remember to see if the "BP RECALL" applies to your vehicle. Even if it doesnt ask that they check the part number/software level of both the control module and motor.
Hope this helped,
Brandon
PCVW Volkswagen


_Modified by ShagNasty at 11:08 PM 8-25-2004_


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (ShagNasty)*

Thank you for the input Shagnasty, but I am sure that all of this has been done considering the multiple service attempts at remedying the problem.
It is interesting to note that the binding and chattering is more evident when the vehicle is on a slight incline or decline. I would think that this might point to a geometry problem with the driveline and/or chassis.


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## taygeorge5288 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (dsacks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dsacks* »_Given how "normal" it is, I'm sure your dealer and/or vwoa would be happy to give you a drive in a brand new high vin similarly equipped touareg and show you that this one does exactly the same thing.
I.E. -- demand that they show you that a new car on the lot has the same "normal" binding and chatter yours suffers from.

I put my 18xxx touareg in the shop for various reasons and they gave me a 65xxx loaner. You should feel how much better it is on a low speed turn. No binding. No Chattering


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (taygeorge5288)*

So I guess with Vin 00xxx I am pretty much doomed. 
I hope you are successful in getting your 18xxx fixed.


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## helpmemycarisbroken (Aug 25, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

me too


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## brianvw (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (helpmemycarisbroken)*

If you wanted a car that rides like a 1950's Cadillac on the street, then why do people be 4X4 magazines SUV of the year. Get over it! Who cares if there is a "chatter" when you drive .5 mph and turn the wheel all the way. Too many picky bastards on this site. If you want to ride on air, then go buy Car and Driver's SUV of the year, the Cadillac whatever the hell it is. If you spend 60K then you can get one with allwheel drive.


















_Modified by brianvw at 8:53 PM 8-26-2004_


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (brianvw)*

Brian,
Besides the facts that the .5mph chatter causes the inner treads of the front tires to wear down to the cords in just 8000 miles, causes unsuspecting passengers to grab the support straps and ask if you hit something, and does unknown damage to the $17,000 transmission and $4000+ transfer case, I guess I really shouldn't care.
I am not looking for my Touareg to ride like a 1950's Cadillac. I just want it to ride like some of the other 2004 Touaregs I have driven!


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## spikeital (May 21, 2001)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (brianvw)*

BrianVW,
I have to disagree with you hear. If I am paying 30 plus grand for a VW it shouldn't have a problem that a much more less expensive simular SUV has. Esp, the binding problem. I know you will bring up the Treg has much more technology in it, but that at the sametime that shouldn't be an excuse for something not to work. 
If some cars do it and some cars don't shouldn't there be a remedy for all cars so they don't. As for the chatter I can attest in my old Treg the binding was really bad and very embarrising. Also not a good marketing strategy if you want new customers from old customers showing there cars to friends. 
I am just alittle disappointed on how VW has handled the binding problem with this gents car considering this is a known issue and has been resolved before, in fact many of times. 
BrianVW I do want to thank you for all the help you do provide, but I'm just alittle tired of the old rhetoric that SOME not ALL VW staff try to push. Yes it's a first year car, and a VW. Does VW really want to use that as an Excuse?
As far as the picky bastard remark don't you think we have a right to be considering we have bought the car. I think we have the right to b**** about it if we want. Of course whether VW take care of it is another story, but remember we are the customers and we have a right to have a perfect car. 
Sorry for the rant here. Just feel for neloho. 
Spikeital



_Modified by spikeital at 4:14 PM 8-26-2004_


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## chickdr (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (brianvw)*

Sorry Brain- you are dead wrong on this one. I drove a Porsche Cayenne S with the same drivetrain- less the motor- and it had NONE of the binding noted by many here. This is not just noise we are talking about, it is outright jerking and lurching in the drivetrain on low speed turns. It feels like the wheels are going to come off on my car at times. I am sure someone driving a $16K 4wd Mitsubishi wouldn't put up with it either. VW is copping out on this one. We will see if I get the same response when mine returns for another try at a fix. I don't think you have experienced what we are talking about as you certainly would be in agreement if you had.


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## Vega (Jul 28, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (chickdr)*

Where are you people pulling $20,000 and $17,000 dollar transmission prices from, your a ss?


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (Vega)*

Vega,
In a previous thread, I surmised that the transmission and transfer case would cost $8000. I was corrected by the following information:

_Quote »_The transmission alone is a $17,000 part. The transfer case is not included in the transmission package. Who knows what it costs. Then there's labor. You don't want to ever have to pay for any major component replacement on these cars.

The thread;
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1441321


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## chickdr (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

There is no way the tranny costs $17K. You could buy a new motor for less than that. Maybe $2-3K no more.


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

That was me. I had a transmission replaced on my first Touareg. The transfer case/center diff was reused. The dealer told me it was a $17,000 part.
I don't think $3k would buy you a Golf transmission.


_Modified by PabloP at 3:45 PM 8-26-2004_


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Transmission cost*

In my version of the Euro electronic catalog which is a bit out of date, the price of the transmission is over 9000 Euros ($11,000). Transfer case is about 2200 Euros ($2700).
I don't know what they charge for it in the USA. $17,000 for just the transmission is a bit of a stretch.


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Transmission cost (spockcat)*

I'll just go with the $11,000 then since there seems to some good documentation of that price.
Sooooo...
I really hope that spending $11,000 plus labor to replace the transmission when my Touareg has 50,000 miles will not also be considered normal.


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## brianvw (Mar 23, 2004)

*Re: Transmission cost (neloho)*

Almost all Touaregs have some sort of binding. But that just comes with the Torsen center diff. That is what you get. You may not always feel it, but it is there. As for the extreme cases, I have felt it on a number of Touaregs. There is a fix, your dealer is just incompetant. Either replace the stepper motor, flash the AWD module, or replace the transfer case if all else fails. Have the dealer cotanct the field supervisor (QTM). And you can trust me when I say that VW is not ignoring your problem, they are working on a solid fix, just give it time. They are not going to give you information that they are not sure about until they are absolutley positive.


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## spinnetti (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

I have no binding and chatter...
Is like they told me that the stutter of death where the gas pedal does nothing for 10 seconds or more is normal too, or where Audi told me my headlight that jiggles up and down like a go-go dancer (but only one of them) is also 'Normal'... I HATE these guys!


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: Transmission cost (brianvw)*

BrianVW,
Thank you for espousing the company position.
The stepper motor has been changed TWICE.
The AWD Module has been changed.
The new AWD module has been reflashed multiple times.
The dealer, who is quite competent, was going to replace the transfer case until VWoA SAID NO.
This is not a new situation. It has been ongoing for several months. The field supervisor and the regional manager are well aware of what is going on.
And on your statement...

_Quote, originally posted by *brianvw* »_Almost all Touaregs have some sort of binding

Is that to say that I should accept and live with this malfunction because ALMOST all Touaregs have it to one degree or another.








Oh, one more thing,
Why don't the Cayenne's bind and chatter?


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: Transmission cost (brianvw)*

Brian, I don't know what binding is, but is anyone making any progress on the chattering noise? Do you work in Westlake or at a dealer?


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## taygeorge5288 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (PabloP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PabloP* »_
I don't think $3k would buy you a Golf transmission.

_Modified by PabloP at 3:45 PM 8-26-2004_

$17,000 would buy you a Golf


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## ramco2212 (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Transmission cost (neloho)*

My first Touareg was turned back in as being a lemon. Your's is overdue in my opinion. Check the lemon law in your state. Usually three major failures is the standard. My second Touareg has a 61xxx VIN and seems much better except for windshield condensation from the AC.


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## tdigearhead (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

VWOA is killing this brand in the states. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Qpower1 (Nov 24, 2003)

Wow, you guys have had problems! I have a VIN 24XXX and there is some tire scrub that was noticed upon the first thousand miles or so, and there was some recalcitrance to turn smoothly at the slowest speeds, like a three point turn, but I have never had the earth shaking chatter effect or anything audible to complain about!
Hell, I just went to the dealer for a pair of fresh wiper blades under warranty, and that was the first time into to see them! (Good thing too, these blades cost $27.75 each list price, but they are the easiest design to replace I have ever seen! Fantastically simple, which is a blessing...)
I had a 1991 Audi 200 Quattro, which was a performance car, and I never got more than 20K miles out of a set of V or Z rated tires, but that is normal for the type of tire. Rather, the wear patterns were even and the backs wore along with the fronts, which I expect from the Touareg. I now have just shy of 8K miles on my T-Reg. 
I wish it drove a bit tighter, that's all, like the Audi sedans did, flat and fast thru all turns. I like to apex my way down the road!


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## OilBurnerBob (Dec 23, 2002)

When the Honda Del Sol first came out the roofs leaked like crazy. The factory in Japan said they told the owners that it was 'normal' for a removable hardtop to leak... American Honda said that wouldn't work in the US so the factory fixed the problem.
I know, I was at AHMC at the time.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (chickdr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chickdr* »_Sorry Brain- you are dead wrong on this one. I drove a Porsche Cayenne S with the same drivetrain- less the motor- and it had NONE of the binding noted by many here. 

Could be that the Cayenne had less noticeable binding issues because of the 38/62 front/rear split.


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## neloho (Jun 27, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (spockcat)*

spockcat,
Just wondering if your Touareg has the binding and chattering.
It has been so bad on mine that you could stand across the street and hear the chattering while you watched the whole vehicle vibrate.
If this can be fixed by changing the torque distribution, maybe VW should look into that.


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## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*

I haven't noticed it in either my first car or my second car.


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## taygeorge5288 (Jul 24, 2004)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_
Could be that the Cayenne had less noticeable binding issues because of the 38/62 front/rear split.

nope. my loaner didnt make the noise.


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## PabloP (Nov 24, 2003)

*Re: VWoA says drivetrain binding and chatter is NORMAL (neloho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *neloho* »_spockcat,
Just wondering if your Touareg has the binding and chattering.
It has been so bad on mine that you could stand across the street and hear the chattering while you watched the whole vehicle vibrate.
If this can be fixed by changing the torque distribution, maybe VW should look into that.


This is fascinating. If you still have it after Sept. 23 (I'm too busy until then), I'm going to drive up there and take a listen for myself, if that's ok with you.


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## Joeyjedcz6 (Apr 8, 2021)

neloho said:


> We have been talking with VWoA about this for a over a week. The dealer has been fantastic, but their hands are tied. Even though they agree with us that there is still a problem, they have been instructed by VWoA to "conclude the service, note the problem as being resolved and return the vehicle".
> Since the binding and chatter are now considered normal, I suppose that all of you with Touaregs that do not bind and chatter during low-speed tight turns should schedule a service to have the binding and chattering feature enabled on your
> Touareg.


Man, honestly.. I just created an actual account. So that I could laugh at this. On record.


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## Joeyjedcz6 (Apr 8, 2021)

Joeyjedcz6 said:


> Man, honestly.. I just created an actual account. So that I could laugh at this. On record.


Oh! Right. Ha ha ha ha!!!


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