# going stage 1 with EIP,,a new vr6t on the block soon...



## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

never have i thought the day would come ,,but my vr6 is going turbo,,thanks to rich at eip and his tremendously quick responces to my questions, and interest in me as a customer...and incredible prices for vortexers,, it is happening
there may have been problems in the past but if this guy aint sincere,with his effort to turn things around,no one is,,never did i communicate threw multipel emails with anyother owner of anything at 10;30 and later at night,,and have instant responce,,and im talkn within min. this guy is for real. so much so, 
that me and my friend and fellow vortexer will be going vr6t stage 1 in jan..so for all the doubters,,and belive u me i was one,, we shall see..how the much improved E.I.P. does.. will all the horror stories come true? i dont think so,,
will it have 330 hp and 250 -260 whp i hope freakin so,,and we shall see as this unfolds,,,how much improved eip has become with the customer,,cause we all dam well now they already got it in the product..im looking forward to posting my results of this project,,,,stay tuned


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## the six (Sep 28, 2003)

Yep. I met Steve last weekend at a small car meet and we instantly jumped on the idea of going turbo. So him and me have been in the works of making plans with EIP to send both our cars in for the installation of a stage 1 turbo system. So far it seems quite apparent that EIP is willing to practically bend over backwards to accommodate us. Their response time has been out of this world and from what I hear, they are taking some extreme measures to make sure we are happy as customers and will return in the future.
At the moment Steve and myself are shooting for a January installation. Will keep you posted.


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## j-dub (Oct 22, 2000)

*Re: (the six)*

Good for you guys! Keep us posted on how it turns out.
So Stage 1 means no head gasket right? Are you going for the optional intercooler?


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## corradokyd (Jun 4, 1999)

*Re: (j-dub)*

good kits, i just hope youre installing it.


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (corradokyd)*

going with the given side intercooler,,,stealth turbo,,lol no head gasket....
and yes EIP is doing the install,,,im sure they can do the job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif my install date is 1-5-04,,,ill be sure to keep you all posted on the progress




_Modified by bmorevdubb at 12:33 PM 11-20-2003_


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## the six (Sep 28, 2003)

I know I could instal it myself, just the tuning and dyno aspects I cannot do. But today I am calling and making my instal date. I think I can live without my car for a few days.


_Modified by the six at 5:57 PM 11-20-2003_


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## collier (Aug 6, 1999)

*Re: (the six)*

I think that you will find yourself VERY happy with thier kit, the fitment, and the R&D that has gone into this kit.
I have been running their Stage I for several years now, and have never had a problem.
Good luck, and congrats to EIP making a difference http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (collier)*

collier,,do you run stock diff.and clutch? if not did u fo awhile ? i am interested in hearing about how it runs with there stage 1


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

What are stages?


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## collier (Aug 6, 1999)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bmorevdubb* »_collier,,do you run stock diff.and clutch? if not did u fo awhile ? i am interested in hearing about how it runs with there stage 1

My plan when I first installed the EIP turbo system, was to leave everything stock, as far as the drivetrain....then the weakest link would present itself, and I would have a direction in which to go...
One problem...NOTHING ever broke








Okay, so I spin some tires when the boost comes on in the lower gears....but nothing has broken.
I don't drag race this car, I don't pop the clutch...I don't do the things that might lead to premature wear...but I am still awaiting for something to give








If I could offer a suggestion, it would be...put the turbo system on, drive the car, drive the car spirited....when it comes time to go in and get more balanced traction, get yourself a LSD, and a new clutch...by that time you are going to want more BOOST anyways








I hope that this helped a little, keep us updated on how things turn out.


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (collier)*

thats what i wanted to hear,,,im no youngin ether racing from red to red so i should be good to go,,,thanks for the info,,,i cant wait


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_What are stages?
 
in turbos you have stages of them eip for example eip starts with stage 1 @ 330 hp and goes up to stage 6 with who knows how much hp,,hope that helps ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

I see,stage 1 is turbo?stage 2 turbo + chip,stage 3 turbo,chip and intercooler ect,ect


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## the six (Sep 28, 2003)

Stage 1 is boltons, stage 2 is internals. Stages from there involve larger changes to the electronics of the engine as well as larger turbo's as well as other additions.


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## dubworld2.0t (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (the six)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the six* »_ I think I can live without my car for a few days.

_Modified by the six at 5:57 PM 11-20-2003_






















i would really like to see how long this takes! honestly do you think it would only take a few days? well, i guess with just the bolt on turbo and thats it. but, i am real curious to see if it only JUST takes a few days. 

and http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to rich @EIP for trying to turn around EIP.


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## the six (Sep 28, 2003)

They said 1 week at the latest. I drop it off on a monday, pick it up on a Sat... thats a few days.


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## dubworld2.0t (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (the six)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the six* »_They said 1 week at the latest. I drop it off on a monday, pick it up on a Sat... thats a few days.

how about you post when you drop it off....then post when you pick it up.


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: going stage 1 with EIP,,a new vr6t on the block soon... (bmorevdubb)*

whats the deal with all the commas,,,,,,,, i just dont get it?








Have fun boys







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (dubworld2.0t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubworld2.0t* »_
how about you post when you drop it off....then post when you pick it up. 
 yea ill deff be doing that ill be posting all progress and hopefully some pics,


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## collier (Aug 6, 1999)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

How about YOU post when you drop it off, and I will post when *I* pick it up, if that helps you out????







you know, just in case you were busy, and didn't have time, I could help you out....you know, break-in the motor for you....
chris


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: slowly coming together*

coming together,, http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1122567 

next side skirts,front valence then turbo install on 1-3-04

















_Modified by bmorevdubb at 8:06 PM 11-23-2003_


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## Slynus (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: slowly coming together (bmorevdubb)*

Lookin good man. Awesome color too.


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: slowly coming together (Slynus)*

damn time is here for the turbo install already ..getting full 3" exhaust with high flow cat ..going with the stealth sidemount intercooler..even though they are offering front at no extra charge now ...and also getting 42 draft design triple gauge pod for utility spot in mk4...dropping off this sat. can not what to feel what a vr6t drives like....


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

whn do you get the car back?


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## Red GTi VR6 (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (vr6chris)*

hell yeah! I'm trying right now to save the money up for their stage two, possibly stage 3 kit...have to pay down some on the cards first though...and get my lsd installed...
I'm VERY interested to hear from you all to see how it all turns out!
if you can remember to please IM or keep this post alive with how it all goes!


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_whn do you get the car back?
i belive at most a week is when ill have it back..they will do the initial dyno before and dyno and street test the turbo also..work on it wont start till monday im dropping off sat. since i have to work monday...


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (dubworld2.0t)*



dubworld2.0t said:


> i would really like to see how long this takes! honestly do you think it would only take a few days? well, i guess with just the bolt on turbo and thats it. but, i am real curious to see if it only JUST takes a few days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

just got back from dropping it off...turned a initial dyno run of 154-155whp and 166t..guy at shop thought he also felt some misfiring....but new plugs come with the turbo install anyway...ill be picking it up next sat.


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

found out today car is up and running..... starts dyno testing tomorrow


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

that was pretty quick. tell us how everything ends up


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (vr6chris)*

heres a update with the tunning so far they have got it close to 310 whp at 11-12 lbs boost






















i cant belive the hp..also needed new coil pack and wires


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## 2.OhhhGTI (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

Good deal...I'm glad that Rich is taking care of business for you! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: (2.OhhhGTI)*

nice #s, i cant wait to hear your reaction after the kit is installed







its good to hear that eip is getting better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif all i heard before was bad things


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## AggvGtivr6 (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: (8716vrocco)*

310 at the wheels, holy crap


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (AggvGtivr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AggvGtivr6* »_310 at the wheels, holy crap









yea and thats with stage 1 and full 3" exhaust..i can not wait till saturday


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

isn't stage 1 non-intercooled???


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (Anand20v)*

anand, im pretty sure it has the side mount intercooler. Or you can upgrade to a front mount. But does come with an intercooler. Anyway, thats some nice power. Good luck with everything man. And I hope to see the car soon.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (vr6chris)*

Congrats EIP http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Can't wait to see the numbers.


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (Anand20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Anand20v* »_isn't stage 1 non-intercooled???

No we have never produced any VR6 Turbo that was non-intercooled. Stage-1 comes with the same IC options as Stage-2, Side Mount and Front Mount. 
The Side mount is a bar and plate core that mounts in the drivers side fender well area, the Front Mount is also a bar & plate core and I am sure you can figure out where it is located







.
BTW: Bmorevdubb's car has turned out very nice and is undergoing final QC this evening and provided all goes well, we will return this very pretty GTi to it's owner tomorrow. 
-Rich


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## j-dub (Oct 22, 2000)

*Re:*

Great numbers! 
It seems like a lot of people here are getting turbos, I am starting to feel the itch.
I would love to hear your impresions of everything after you have driven it a few days.
Congradulations to Bmorevdubb for a sweet ride and to EIP for a good product.


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: Re: (j-dub)*

nice bug j-dub http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Those are really impressive numbers for a Stage 1 kit. It takes a lot of balls for companies to install turbos because of the liability of parts breaking and stuff. I would think ANY company that even sells turbo products that were not designed for the vehicle are taking a risk.
But when a company puts forth the R&D, products and then does the install with a dyno tune http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Can't wait for the final outcome. Please don't DESTROY that tranny


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: Re: (vdubspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubspeed* »_
Can't wait for the final outcome. Please don't DESTROY that tranny

















plan on getting a differential and clutch within a few months ..till then ill baby her like i have always..i drive mostly for top-end anyway... not racing red light to red light..and no strips till the peloquin is installed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
im gonna have a hard time getting to sleep tonight


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

so whats up with the car? you get it back?


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (vr6chris)*

yea just got in..this thing is crazy real nice sound and power is insane..the 42draft triple gauge looks real sweet to..heres a 4th gear run..dont forget this is stage 1..theres a video of my car`s dyno run being added to EIP`s sight shortly..those guys did a great job..EIP http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by bmorevdubb at 10:14 PM 1-10-2004_


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

Nice looking power curve! How is it to drive?


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (Mr Black)*

actually a little "scary" right now,







the thing just pulls especially in this 20 degree weather..had some hiccups with this EPC light coming on but other then that its awesome


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

heres a third gear pull


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## King (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

I'm confused. You have a VR6 turbo that makes 315whp and you've found time to use your computer? Wow. I would only be stopping to eat food for the first 3-4 days, other than that, I'd be out driving....
Congrats on the new toy !


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: (vr6chris)*

vr6chris - A Turbo Motor will always develop more HP under a larger load, assuming the the tuning (Turbo Size, exhaust size) allows this. In this case when running in fourth gear the motor is loaded more and the current set up is able to produce more boost in fourth gear than in third gear due to the higher load on the motor in fourth gear. This is caused by the piston being harder to push down in fourth gear, therefore the turbo (Because of tuning) produces more pressure above the piston, denser air/fuel mixture, a larger boom, and more HP.







- Bob


_Modified by Evolution Marine at 7:24 PM 1-11-2004_


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_Everything looks good, but why is there a big difference in hp with the 4th gear pull and the 3rd gear pull? Did you lower the boost or something like that?

Basically because he does not have a boost controller, the drivetrain generates more load in 4th and the result is that boost comes on earlier and is a bit higher which equates to more torque and hp @ the wheels. If we had the wastegate set for max boost in third it would overboost in fourth & fifth. 
Once he does the clutch /diff. he will then do a boost controller and on other MK4 cars we see gains of 60-80 ft lbs @ the wheels through large portions of the power band. We won't push for any more peak hp (while he is Stage-1) but we will be able to bring boost on much earlier and broaden the overall powerband. Once complete 3rd and 4th gear will produce the same power. 
-Rich


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (Evolution Marine)*

Hey, thanks man for the great explanation.







It makes sense that a motor makes more power under load because of the pressure and all that. Thanks.


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (Evolution Marine)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Evolution Marine* »_vr6chris - A Turbo Motor will always develop more HP under a larger load, assuming the the tuning (Turbo Size, exhaust size) allows this. In this case when running in fourth gear the motor is loaded more and the current set up is able to produce more boost in fourth gear than in third gear due to the higher load on the motor in fourth gear. This is caused by the piston being harder to push down in fourth gear, therefore the turbo (Because of tuning) produces more pressure above the piston, denser air/fuel mixture, a larger boom, and more HP.







- Bob

This reply dropped in while I was typing, I would like to acknowledge it and say that in general I agree.


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (Mr King)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr King* »_I'm confused. You have a VR6 turbo that makes 315whp and you've found time to use your computer? Wow. I would only be stopping to eat food for the first 3-4 days, other than that, I'd be out driving....
Congrats on the new toy ! 















just got it late yesterday..just got in from driving all morning put about 60-70 miles on it testing her hard and testing just cruzing with both im aveaging about 19.7 mpg not bad....this thing is driving great ..just grumbels at low rpm..then the power..if only it was 4wheel drive


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: (eiprich)*

eiprich - It has been probably 15 yrs. since I have done any turbo tuning and I am not familiar with how a boost controller works. Back when I was tuning them all we had was a waste gate with a diaphragm operating the wastegate valve. Is the boost controller a electro/mechanical device operating the wastegate valve?







- Bob


_Modified by Evolution Marine at 9:41 PM 1-11-2004_


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (eiprich)*

Rich, what boost controller do you recommend for 12psi and under??


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

he highly recommended to me the apexi controller on there site for 500..does all kind of crazy stuff he was telling me..let alone the 50-60 gain in torque


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (bmorevdubb)*

The one on the site looks nice, but it's a little more then I want to spend right noe. Anybody have experience with a TurboXS Dual Stage MBC or similar unit?. Pros, cons? Looking for around 12psi intercooled.


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (Evolution Marine)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Evolution Marine* »_eiprich - It has been probably 15 yrs. since I have done any turbo tuning and I am not familiar with how a boost controller works. Back when I was tuning them all we had was a waste gate with a diaphragm operating the wastegate valve. Is the boost controller a electro/mechanical device operating the wastegate valve?







- Bob

We use the Turbonetics Deltagate (which is an external type) which is a mechanical unit that is indeed a diaphragm & valve which opens as positive pressure acts on the diaphragm. There is a spring which works to preload against the diaphragm and this has an adjustable pre-load allowing the boost to be adjusted with the set screw. The wastegate valve, when open, routes exhaust gas around the turbine housing which bypasses the turbo to control the speed of the turbine shaft, which in turn regulates boost. 
The electronic controllers use a solenoid to manipulate the signal line that feeds the diaphragm area (and some also control the other side of diaphragm as well) and this allows an electronic control over boost. The APEXi AVCR (which we feel is the best unit available) has a MAP sensor that monitors actual manifold pressure so the controllers ECU can determine the best way to control the solenoid (which in turn control the actuation of the wastegate) in order to most accurately regulate boost. 
The advantages are on many levels including much faster spool up of the turbo by holding the wastegate closed for longer, as well as far more accurate boost control, multiple boost pre-sets, in dash boost adjustment, etc, etc.
-Rich


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: (eiprich)*

eiprich - Thank you for your very detailed and informative explanation of the way current boost controllers work.







- Bob


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## 5.0 eater (Dec 5, 2002)

*Re: eiprich*

310 WHP: NICE http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Great work Rich http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I Think that my HPA System will go OK.
Should be doing it by this Fall.
Hope to be able to stop in to your shop sometime (I will probably be going to Waterfest in 2005). I spoke to Marcel and he is looking to use my car as sort of an Advertising tool since he dosen't have many Canadian Customers. He is a lot like you actually. Thanks again for the great Offer on your system. I'm sure it would have been a pleasure to deal with you. Keep making those VW's go fast. 
The Picture of bmorevdubb's install looks great. 
Jamie




_Modified by 5.0 eater at 12:05 AM 1-12-2004_


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## j-dub (Oct 22, 2000)

*Re: eiprich (5.0 eater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *5.0 eater* »_
The Picture of bmorevdubb's install looks great. 
Jamie
_Modified by 5.0 eater at 12:05 AM 1-12-2004_


Where is the install pics, did I miss them?
EDIT - Found them in another post


_Modified by j-dub at 3:04 PM 1-13-2004_


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: going stage 1 with EIP,,a new vr6t on the block soon... (bmorevdubb)*

bmorevdubb - How is your EIP Stage 1 VR6 running?







- Bob


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## bmorevdubb (Nov 14, 2003)

*Re: going stage 1 with EIP,,a new vr6t on the block soon... (Evolution Marine)*

very good ..no problems yet really,except gel popped on once and since they were cleared hasn't reoccurred..other then that .no problems whatsoever and..im ecstatic knowing i have a 370hp gti


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## Evolution Marine (Sep 18, 2003)

*Re: going stage 1 with EIP,,a new vr6t on the block soon... (bmorevdubb)*

bmorevdubb - That is GREAT to hear, to think you gained 200 CHP over stock with a EIP Stage 1 turbo kit and still run on pump gas is a real testament to the quality and hard work that EIP has put into this kit. Happy motoring!







- Bob


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## muttwagon (Sep 21, 2000)

*Re: going stage 1 with EIP,,a new vr6t on the block soon... (Evolution Marine)*

being local to EIP and hearing only negative comments about them for years, this really turns my head and gives me something to think about in terms of future plans for my GTI. good job EIP! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## evilgti2000 (Apr 11, 2002)

*Re: (Anand20v)*

Big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to you guys for fighting through all the "rumors" and bull that floats around on this forum and showing the doubters that there is nothing to worry about. And another http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







to EIP for what seems to be a great job they did. Great to see standup companies like EIP being a part of the community and "airing out" projects like such







.


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## had1ofeverydub (Nov 4, 2001)

*Re: going stage 1 with EIP,,a new vr6t on the block soon... (sk8vet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sk8vet* »_being local to EIP and hearing only negative comments about them for years, this really turns my head and gives me something to think about in terms of future plans for my GTI. good job EIP! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I am local as well, and I agree. This thread is really making me re-think a few things


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