# VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed !



## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

VF-Engineering/GIAC 2.0T big turbo has been installed on the DSG GTI !









Mike Potter from http://www.parts4vws.com is the proud owner of this DSG test car. Mike is known for his "fearless" track and autocross driving style and is sure to push his car through its paces on the track sometime in the near future. Off course the car also sees some heavy use on the street with 91 octane. 








Installation of the GT28RS BT kit was no different to that of a 6speed model. The kit is identical. We added a few extra touches such as custom colored pipework.








Here is mike having just pushed out 500hp R32 around Streets of Willow.








Dyno plots of the DSG will be posted shortly.


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## snowboardegn (May 4, 2003)

This makes me very excited.


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

If Mike can't break that DSG 'box, no one can


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

Hmm... so what do you guys know about DSG that we don't? 
You simply have to assume that the clutch packs or some other things were upgraded... I mean, are you guys doing this on a stock DSG?


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## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (Kid Hobo)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif congrats to VF/GIAC and esp my buddy Mike!


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## D.Passat00 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

any tranny upgrades done to Mike's car?


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## element43 (Jul 26, 2007)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (D.Passat00)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D.Passat00* »_any tranny upgrades done to Mike's car?

x2 i'm very interested in this.
Also did you add an LSD to the car? I can't imagine putting that much power down w/o one.


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## Preston H. (May 24, 2003)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (element43)*

DSG can nevar lose!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (D.Passat00)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D.Passat00* »_any tranny upgrades done to Mike's car?

I believe he put a handful of Twizzlers in there but aside from that I think the DSG is stock?


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I believe he put a handful of Twizzlers in there but aside from that I think the DSG is stock?
















Red Vines > Twizzlers


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## [email protected] (Jun 8, 2007)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

Let the transmission abuse... I mean durability testing begin! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

I'll post some reviews once I get some time on it....heck Nik has drove the car more than me so far








I will be doing a LSD very soon & for now yes it's a stock DSG trans. Someone's got to be the test mule for everyone else.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif To VF & GIAC.....I can't wait to drive it! 
BTW: If any of you are in So-Cal we are having a GTG this weekend Oct 20th & the car will be here at our shop for all to drool on. 
Mike


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (stockmotor.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stockmotor.* »_
500hp R32 around Streets of Willow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Hot lapping a 500hp R32 around Streets of Willow in shorts









Pffft, shorts are nothing. I have seen him swap out suspensions in the dark in his driveway in his underwear.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Pffft, shorts are nothing. I have seen him swap out suspensions in the dark in his driveway in his underwear.









Wow paul.... wow....


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

*YESSSSSSSS!!!!* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BEAT THE **** OUT OF IT! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif _aka, drive like I'd probably drive it. ;-)_


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## ruso (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (Arin)*

Arin... dooooit!


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## Volks4eVR (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (ruso)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to you for being the first. I will be all over this kit if the DSG handles the power.


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## Lt. Lawton (Aug 22, 2007)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

Would the installation of the kit be any different if it were to be installed onto a tiptronic car?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (Lt. Lawton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lt. Lawton* »_Would the installation of the kit be any different if it were to be installed onto a tiptronic car?

The A4s are longitudinal motors vs. the transverse motors in the GTIs, the piping, lines, etc would all be completely different... Also the transmission is COMPLETELY different than the GTI/GLI/A3 DSG, and as of past Audi Tiptronics, will more than likely go boom at this power level


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## gtboost (Oct 11, 2005)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

ill be watching this closely. 
Goodluck


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## marf34 (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

Great!!!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Funny how so many people said that the DSG computer would not let the car go above the magic 250 ftlbs. Guess they were wrong. 
Now we can finally have some facts about dsgs power handling, cause it seems that most people don't believe what HPA has been saying all along.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (marf34)*


_Quote, originally posted by *marf34* »_Now we can finally have some facts about dsgs power handling, cause it seems that most people don't believe what HPA has been saying all along.

The thing to remember here is that HPA is dealing with the 6cylinder DSGs, which are not the exact same unit as these 4cylinder DSGs... The 2.0T is "designed" for a 200HP/200tq motor; the 3.2 DSG is "Designed" for a 250HP/240lb/ft motor, just as a R32 clutch is not the same as a 1.8T 6spd clutch...
We have used the TT DSG (3.2L) with HPA's FT400(~440-450HP) without any issues on an unopened, unmodified DSG unit... For power levels above that, they do recommend a clutch pack upgrade.


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## marf34 (Oct 27, 2000)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*

Good to know, I thought they were the same. I've read that they had the same part numbers etc.


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## Gustaf (Sep 16, 2000)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! (marf34)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Very nice!


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## nstotal (Sep 26, 2006)

i'm socal local and i want to come take a look at the car this weekend. what time is this GTG happening?


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## D.Passat00 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (nstotal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nstotal* »_i'm socal local and i want to come take a look at the car this weekend. what time is this GTG happening?

10 to 5
http://www.parts4vws.com/


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## goin2fast (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: (D.Passat00)*

Gotta tag along even thogh I have a MT. I like the mature converstion that this thread is bound to bring.


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## Hkysk8r07 (Jul 9, 2005)

nice. wasnt this the kit that was installed on the engine you had on display at dubfest. that red piping was looking pretty nice.


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## bigred35 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (Hkysk8r07)*

Mikey likes it!
Good Job Potterman. Will Kristen's ride get the upgrade when it's available? I'm sure she won't want you to be the only one to enjoy the power!
-Sean


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## SprintA3 (Jan 11, 2007)

this makes me like my DSG again.


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## VW-Arcade (Aug 27, 2007)

*Re: (SprintA3)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif This Makes me Proud I bought a DSG. 
BTW Potters Driving FTW


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## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (VW-Arcade)*

1st impressions......WOW







Mortgage your house, work overtime, sell your kidney







to get this kit! It pulls so effortlessly, all of a sudden your doing 90! I had a nice drive home (about 70 miles) & it's just soooo smooth. Power right when you need it & it just does not stop pulling. Very smooth delivery & with how fast the DSG shifts it's just right back in the powerband & boost. Even when driving in "D" mode get on it & it responds instantly. Wheelspin is there but not as bad as I expected. Still a LSD will be on the list soon. Oh yeah, if you don't already have a V1 Radar Detector, Get one! you will be needing it with this kit. It gets up to speed so quick & it's so smooth you don't realize just how fast your going in such a short time. 
A HUGE http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to VF & GIAC! 
Will post more about it after I drive it for a few more days! 


_Modified by Parts4vws at 3:18 PM 10-18-2007_


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## Volks4eVR (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Parts4vws* »_1st impressions......WOW







Mortgage your house, work overtime, sell your kidney







to get this kit! It pulls so effortlessly, all of a sudden your doing 90! I had a nice drive home (about 70 miles) & it's just soooo smooth. Power right when you need it & it just does not stop pulling. Very smooth delivery & with how fast the DSG shifts it's just right back in the powerband & boost. Even when driving in "D" mode get on it & it responds instantly. Wheelspin is there but not as bad as I expected. Still a LSD will be on the list soon. Oh yeah, if you don't already have a V1 Radar Detector, Get one! you will be needing it with this kit. It gets up to speed so quick & it's so smooth you don't realize just how fast your going in such a short time. 
A HUGE http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to VF & GIAC! 
Will post more about it after I drive it for a few more days! 

_Modified by Parts4vws at 3:18 PM 10-18-2007_

Did you install anything else along with the kit or change anything to prepare the engine/tranny.


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## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (Volks4eVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volks4eVR* »_
Did you install anything else along with the kit or change anything to prepare the engine/tranny.


Only a Jetex 3" Turbo Back Exhaust. Nothing else but bolting the Turbo kit on & a reflash for the ECU. 
Mike


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## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

<<<< proud DSG owner







lol


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## Volks4eVR (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Parts4vws* »_

Only a Jetex 3" Turbo Back Exhaust. Nothing else but bolting the Turbo kit on & a reflash for the ECU. 
Mike

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif im so jealous, can't wait until this kit comes out. I am sure you are having a great time with the added power. Keep us updated on DSG.


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## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

I know the dyno is on the way, but do you think you could post a boost log? I'm really curious to see where it comes on.


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (milan616)*

below> Boost plot for VF/GIAC RSS kit on Mike Potters DSG









below> Kodak spot


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Very nice! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You don't happen to have any vag-com boost logs started from a lower rpm do you?


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## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

It comes on a bit later than stock, but man does it stay there!


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## VW-Arcade (Aug 27, 2007)

*Re: (milan616)*





























Must see dyno results


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (VW-Arcade)*

Can someone chime in on how the DSG handles shifting with this much power? Is something changed in the software to tell the dsg when to shift and the amount of pressure needed for the clutch?


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## hypoxia (May 19, 2007)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*

sweet! (posted to watch)


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## Nikerey (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: (hypoxia)*

If this hasnt blown up by the end of the year it will be on my christmas list http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Any plans for track days?


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Nikerey)*

What exactly would 'blow up'. Surely too much power wouldn't blow up the entire transmission making it a total 100% loss, right? If something 'blows up' what would it likely be?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2001)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_What exactly would 'blow up'. Surely too much power wouldn't blow up the entire transmission making it a total 100% loss, right? If something 'blows up' what would it likely be?

Clutch(es) slipping I would assume... Unless the clutches hold and it makes enough power to blow a gear (a la a Manual transmission).... It is fairly common for say, a O2A 5spd to blow 3rd gear on a high powered car(300+WHP) given a slightly bumpy road...
Only time will tell though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

Here is a pic of Mikes car at their BBQ last weekend. Great turnout of enthusiasts!


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## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

man, i wanna see mike drive that thing. any videos?


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## Volks4eVR (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Clutch(es) slipping I would assume... Unless the clutches hold and it makes enough power to blow a gear (a la a Manual transmission).... It is fairly common for say, a O2A 5spd to blow 3rd gear on a high powered car(300+WHP) given a slightly bumpy road...
Only time will tell though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Wouldn't torque be the culprit in affecting the DSG? It seems that this kit from what is posted on VF site will have around 330tq which isn't that much higher than some are getting with a stage 2 upgrade. I have no clue if that is to the wheels or if its even correct but it sure looks promising.


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (Volks4eVR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volks4eVR* »_
Wouldn't torque be the culprit in affecting the DSG? It seems that this kit from what is posted on VF site will have around 330tq which isn't that much higher than some are getting with a stage 2 upgrade. I have no clue if that is to the wheels or if its even correct but it sure looks promising.

The big issue with the 2.0T is not really the DSG in our opinion. It is the Rods and Pistons. Manufacturer data suggests they should not be pushed too far past 300whp/wtq.
Our DSG car has been set to reasonable torque level and we will slowly turn it up closer to these numbers. Dyno numbers will be published once the car has achieved some mileage under its belt.


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Well... besides the "what-ifs" of things that go boom, how's the DSG driving so far? Have you tried to use launch control, does it jerk in any gears, sport mode vs. drive mode vs. manual button flipping mode? Heck, how's the reverse gear? Is there an even greater lag from stop to go when you first step on the gas, is there a split second hesitation?
Just curious. You said even drive mode was strong, but please, do fill in a bit more if you could.
Thanks,
KH


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*

One more DSG RS/S about to emerge. This one's really yellow, too


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

how about some pics BP when you can.


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## TGZ (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

What suspension and wheel setup's you guys running on those 2 gti's. Both look badass! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (TGZ)*

The RSS runs 
Stasis "Streetsport" fixed height coilovers
19" OZ Ultraleggera Silver
Toyo R888 compound tires
STaSIS/Alcon 13.5" Front brake kit
The RSR runs 
Stasis "Tracksport" height adjustable coilovers.
19" OZ Ultraleggera Black 
Toyo R888 compound tires
STaSIS/Alcon 14" Monobloc 4 Piston Front brakes



_Modified by [email protected] at 12:04 PM 10-26-2007_


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

Here it is: the dynojet plot of our production 2.0T RSS kit as fitted to Mike Potters 2006 DSG Model on 91 octane. 
*Notes:*
The rev limiter is retained at the stock limit which limits peak power when compared to the manual model. 
The blue curve is the bone stock dyno run - we did not log the boost as shown on the bottom plot. 
On 6 speed cars we dyno them in 4th gear. With the Big Turbo when starting the dyno pull, the operator had to press the gas pedal lightly to avoid the transmission downshifting itself. 
*Feedback from the owner:*
The car feels very powerful and has stock-like driveability. There is no change in the transmissions shifting behaviour and the DSG is superfun with this much torque and hp.








Power increased from 181whp to 285whp
Torque increased from 198wtq to 273wq
With 93 octane (as seen on the 6spd) we expect +10-15whp and +10wtq approximately.


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## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

DSG Pro tip: When putting the DSG into selected gear for the dyno continue to hold the paddle down to prevent the DSG from down shifting.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (milan616)*


_Quote, originally posted by *milan616* »_DSG Pro tip: When putting the DSG into selected gear for the dyno continue to hold the paddle down to prevent the DSG from down shifting.









I do that when I log if I plan to MASH the peddle to the ground w/o fear of it shifting.


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## Volks4eVR (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*

Nice numbers. Is the RSS kit available for the public yet? and do you have any Canadian distributors that have them yet?


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## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Volks4eVR)*

i love that this kit bolts up to a "stock" downpipe - or any of the aftermarket jobbies...that is a nice touch = no trips to the muffler shop for a custom setup.....


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## Liquid1.8T (Dec 20, 1999)

*Re: (mwwVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_i love that this kit bolts up to a "stock" downpipe - or any of the aftermarket jobbies...that is a nice touch = no trips to the muffler shop for a custom setup.....

totally.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

good numbers, i think the dsg will be fine with that torque level......there are plent of people that have been pushing that much torque with stg2 on dsg.


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## Volks4eVR (Sep 15, 2005)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_good numbers, i think the dsg will be fine with that torque level......there are plent of people that have been pushing that much torque with stg2 on dsg.

That's what makes it so promissing. I will buy this kit ASAP if I can find a good dealer in Canada who knows what they are doing.


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## Potterman (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_Well... besides the "what-ifs" of things that go boom, how's the DSG driving so far? Have you tried to use launch control, does it jerk in any gears, sport mode vs. drive mode vs. manual button flipping mode? Heck, how's the reverse gear? Is there an even greater lag from stop to go when you first step on the gas, is there a split second hesitation?
Just curious. You said even drive mode was strong, but please, do fill in a bit more if you could.
Thanks,
KH


Well it's been close to 10 days & about 500+ miles so far. A good mixture of Highway, around town & even a couple canyon roads







My last tank of gas I got 288miles before the light went on, that was about 75% hwy, the rest around town. Mostly spritied driving, cruising 80+ most of the time with the A/C on on the hwy. For the power it has I'm pleased I'm not at the pump after 200miles or less. 
So far the DSG feels no different then it did before, you can drive it to the store & never know you have a BT, unless you put your foot down. 
My car is a Very early 06 (prod date 10/05) so I'm one of the unfortunate ones who cannot enable launch control







Unless of course I pop for the new style Mechatronics unit....which won't happen as I feel that money will be better spent on a LSD. 
As a lot of DSG owners have experienced the Jerky feeling when cold, my car had it from the start & it has not changed. Once the car warms up like it's always had to it's perfect. 
Sport mode I used to hate, now I like using it. Used to just be weird. Now it actually shifts sooner in "S"...maybe it's that I just dont have to give it as much gas as before







So it does not rev out when your not trying to. 
Drive mode is just fine, I've lugged it at 1500rpm & it pulls like it did when chipped, no annoying lag....just go. Once you hit 3k it's ready & willing al lthe way to 6500. 
Manual mode is & always has been my favorite way to drive this car. I have always had manuals & this was my 1st auto mainly becuase of all the around town driving & the nasty traffic we get here in so-cal. It is a little hard in 1st/2nd to hit the button soon enough because the revs shoot up so quick you almost may as well let the TCM shift it.
I never floor it in reverse















There really is no difference from stop to go when you step on it over how may car was stock or chipped. 
I'll do my best to get some in-car vids from my next Auto-x or Track day http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Mike


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## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

thanks for the update great stuff!


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

*Re: (Potterman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Potterman* »_ My car is a Very early 06 (prod date 10/05) so I'm one of the unfortunate ones who cannot enable launch control







Unless of course I pop for the new style Mechatronics unit....which won't happen as I feel that money will be better spent on a LSD. 

Mike, my car was the first MkV GTI sold in Miami, production date 11/05. Talked to the right person and I got LC installed at the dealership.








Can't wait for the videos man!


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## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

*Re: (Potterman)*

Sweet, I'm flyin' out to L.A. tomorrow, so if I spot your car cruisin' around I'll be the crazy one with blown out plastic Aldi bags (luggage) and a tattering shopping cart (rental car) waving you down. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

The red fits so well, because this car is on fire! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AndorGLI (Jul 29, 2007)

nice, i'm deff. loving the red vf intake!!! nice choice. how about red FMIC piping too!!!! and any track time?


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## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

i got a question for mike. and please, everyone here, do not turn this into a dsg vs. manual thread, i'm just curious but,
what do you prefer driving, manual or DSG?



_Modified by darweezie21 at 1:10 AM 11-5-2007_


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## EliteDubs (Apr 5, 2002)

*Re: (milan616)*


_Quote, originally posted by *milan616* »_DSG Pro tip: When putting the DSG into selected gear for the dyno continue to hold the paddle down to prevent the DSG from down shifting.









Hold the up shift paddle? 
Subscribed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

anything new happening here? updates?


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## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: (EliteDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EliteDubs* »_
Hold the up shift paddle? 
Subscribed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yeah, I should have made that more clear!


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_anything new happening here? updates?

We're beginning our GLI DSG install today. The owner might post up a thread later to cover the progress.


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## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

what is the most hp that someone actually has on a DSG GTI/GLI


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## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_i got a question for mike. and please, everyone here, do not turn this into a dsg vs. manual thread, i'm just curious but,
what do you prefer driving, manual or DSG?
_Modified by darweezie21 at 1:10 AM 11-5-2007_


Well, prefer is a big word. I really, really like my DSG. But to me it all depends on what your goal is with the car. If I'm going to track it a lot/only be a track car then I'd go manual for sure. Everyday street driving in Traffic....DSG for sure. I'm over trying to have a dual purpose car(Street & Track), been there done that. Now my track car is a 80 Scirocco that is light, nimble & fast enough.....& yes a manual








I ended up choosing a DSG GTI because I do a LOT of around town stop & go driving. Plus I do drive into San Diego, OC & LA quite often & with the amount of traffic that is out here it really was a no brainer to go DSG. In the end I love having the choice of shifting or not. I still do Auto-X & track my car lightly & it's still fun. 
I guess I Prefer the DSG for street / Light track stuff. 
Manual for a track/race car. 
Mike


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## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_anything new happening here? updates?

No new news, car is running great still. Traded cars with my wife last week for a few days so she got a chance to drive it (I drove her A3 DSG) She loved it & I got to really tell the difference when driving just a chipped/TBE DSG over my car. 
DSG is holding fine....no problems to speak of http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif RS/S kit same....no problems just power!
Looks like a track day is in store for the GTI on the 16th!







I'll report back with in-car-video / pics! 
Mike


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## wale (Jun 24, 2007)

hey mike what is traction like? do u have a lsd? if not, is it necessary?


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## drpsycher (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (wale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_i got a question for mike. and please, everyone here, do not turn this into a dsg vs. manual thread, i'm just curious but,
what do you prefer driving, manual or DSG?




_Quote, originally posted by *Parts4vws* »_

..........Well, prefer is a big word. I really, really like my DSG..........
I guess I Prefer the DSG for street / Light track stuff. 
Manual for a track/race car. .........
Mike


i don't mean to thread jack, but i can't HELP but put in my .02 here...

i know that when you have a manual you get that mechanical-one-ness-with-your-car satisfaction and its that kind of experience thats the whole point of driving on a track and that driving to work is for work and i think thats why everybody equates DSG to the street and a traditonal manual to the track but........
they put that paddle shifting crap on F1s for a reason
i practically LIVE to drive my car on a track and i freakin LOVE my DSG both on the track and on the street......
it IS satisfying to shift a manual on a track but DSG will allways be faster.....like who shifs a manual in 8 millaseconds anyways?
i don't like to depend on my car for my performance, but ever since i traded my *MK4 R32 *for a *DSG GTI*, (still stock except suspension, btw) everybody talks about how smooth i drive and i get compliments on it all the time now.....it just amazes me.......with less horsepower, brakes and tracktion still i get arround a track signifantly faster AND i'm stone col chillin on the street.....i dont' know man....i don't think it gets much cooler than that

even stil........to each his own and at the same time i will *never *diss on peoples reasoning on driving a stick becuase in a certain way no matter what i blather on abbout it still is definitely more fun but in my humble opinion i think the performance advantages DSG alone will allways make it a worth while sacrifice and i don't think i'm ever going to go back to a manual

o.k. sorry y'all......i just had to bust that out
carry on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

Way to thread jack.
Back to the topic: Anyone have an idea of how much tire-spin this kit would have on non-R compound tires? It almost seems like a LSD would be mandatory....


----------



## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_
Back to the topic: Anyone have an idea of how much tire-spin this kit would have on non-R compound tires? It almost seems like a LSD would be mandatory....

(Assuming you're talking about off the line and not through corners) I'm guessing that with the way the boost curve looks the tire slipping wouldn't be as bad as the stock turbo which, when combined with the direct injection, brings the torque up really early in the rev range. Looks like by the time this turbo starts to kick in it isn't so sudden from the tires point of view. Does anyone know how the engine performs without a turbo? I'm interested to know how much of the early torque is attributed to FSI.
Still interested in what Mike has to say for himself though.


_Modified by milan616 at 1:33 PM 11-8-2007_


----------



## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: (drpsycher)*

No downshiftable manual transmission (DSG or otherwise), can shift in 8 milliseconds. Most sequential transmissions are between 50 and 100 milliseconds. We use a least 40 milliseconds of torque reduction just to release the engaged gear, before the next gear is even engaged...








Sorry Mike, back to the OT...


----------



## curvedinfinity (Oct 11, 2004)

*Re: (milan616)*


_Quote, originally posted by *milan616* »_(Assuming you're talking about off the line and not through corners)

Won't an LSD especially cut down on tire-spin accelerating out of a corner? I see what you say about the lower low-end though -- I guess that answers my question as far as normal driving conditions go; there will be less tire-spin than stock if you jam the throttle at 2k RPM.
But say when I'm running at 4k RPM in second going around a tight corner, I foresee tapping the pedal causing a nice big SCREEAACH from the 300 or so hp on tap at that point.


----------



## milan616 (Aug 5, 2006)

*Re: (curvedinfinity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *curvedinfinity* »_
But say when I'm running at 4k RPM in second going around a tight corner, I foresee tapping the pedal causing a nice big SCREEAACH from the 300 or so hp on tap at that point.

Even an LSD has its limits. If you're more than feathering the throttle at 4-5k on the RSS kit through a tight corner a biasing LSD will do what it can, but you're still likely going to overpower street tires on a normal road. Now if ESP is on instead of screeching through a corner you're going to have the car fall flat on its face when the power gets cut. Without an LSD or AWD on tap, you have to finesse your way through such situation (I assume







)


----------



## wale (Jun 24, 2007)

lsd or not, with fwd, the driver has to use skill and experience to handle his car


----------



## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (wale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wale* »_lsd or not, with fwd, the driver has to use skill and experience to handle his car


Well Said. Yes it would be nice with a diff. It's not undriveable w/o one but we all know it would be faster. Right now I have my BBS CK 19X8's on it with Kuhmo MX's(total weight of 49lbs....stock huffs were 48lbs) & I can lose traction w/o trying...a hair too much gas & it's spinning. Finesse is key with the throttle that's for sure.....from a roll it's wicked tho http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Potterman (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Parts4vws* »_
Looks like a track day is in store for the GTI on the 16th!







I'll report back with in-car-video / pics! 
Mike

The 16th has come & gone, Took the car to Streets Of Willow for a trackday shakedown. I did 4 25-min sessions & no issues at all. The DSG held up fine. Then today I drove to a Auto-X & got about 12 runs with it. I will post back soon with some in-car video from the Trackday. Some pics below from Fridays trackday. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
















































Mike


----------



## Potterman (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: (Potterman)*

In car Video Link to about 3 laps in the DSG RSS GTI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHRYWXiReJY

Mods:
VF/GIAC RSS BT kit
VF Motor Mounts (All 3)
Jetex 3" Turbo Back Exhaust
H&R Premium Lightweight coilover Kit
H&R 28MM Front Swaybar
H&R 24mm Rear Swaybar
Eurosport rear Stress Bar
Stern Rear Subframe Brace
Power Slot Cryo Treated Front & Rear Rotors
Hawk HPS Pads Front & Rear
225-40-18 Falken Azenis 
A very streetable setup, but still good on the track.
Enjoy! 
Mike



_Modified by Potterman at 6:34 PM 11-19-2007_


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Potterman)*

any way you can post up some street video clips with a close up on the gauges?


----------



## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

any videos of the car rolling from the outside?


----------



## AndorGLI (Jul 29, 2007)

nice man, more video's!


----------



## runningoutofspace (Apr 16, 2007)

*But what about the RS/R?*

Now that we've seen that it works well on a DSG without a LSD, Clutch upgrade, and TCM reprogram; has V-F considered putting an RS/R on the DSG 2.0T? 
I ask this because a bigger turbo kit with close to 400hp is what I desire on my DSG (like the RS/R kit or the Revo Stage III).
Putting an RS/S on the stock is fine, but we all need to see if the stock DSG/TCMs can handle 380+hp (without a clutch upgrade and reprogramming of the TCMs). 
I have yet to find a working example of what happens when you go above the 300hp-max theory. 
OH and BTW, I don't know how to interpret the tread skips I leave behind when launching with an LSD and Revo Stage II, it looks like:
:: :: :: :: :: :: :

:: :: :: :: :: :: :
instead of 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I can only imagine what will be left on the road, launching in a FWD car with more than 300+ HP.

_Modified by runningoutofspace at 11:17 AM 11-18-2007_


_Modified by runningoutofspace at 11:18 AM 11-18-2007_


----------



## AndorGLI (Jul 29, 2007)

i like your tred pattern! haha


----------



## BIGNICKSGTIS420 (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (AndorGLI)*

Nice! How did it compete against the other cars?


----------



## gtiiiiiiii (Mar 6, 2004)

*Re: But what about the RS/R? (runningoutofspace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *runningoutofspace* »_Now that we've seen that it works well on a DSG without a LSD, Clutch upgrade, and TCM reprogram; has V-F considered putting an RS/R on the DSG 2.0T? 
I ask this because a bigger turbo kit with close to 400hp is what I desire on my DSG (like the RS/R kit or the Revo Stage III).
Putting an RS/S on the stock is fine, but we all need to see if the stock DSG/TCMs can handle 380+hp (without a clutch upgrade and reprogramming of the TCMs). 
I have yet to find a working example of what happens when you go above the 300hp-max theory. 
OH and BTW, I don't know how to interpret the tread skips I leave behind when launching with an LSD and Revo Stage II, it looks like:
:: :: :: :: :: :: :

:: :: :: :: :: :: :
instead of 
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
I can only imagine what will be left on the road, launching in a FWD car with more than 300+ HP.

_Modified by runningoutofspace at 11:17 AM 11-18-2007_

_Modified by runningoutofspace at 11:18 AM 11-18-2007_

Why do we all need to see what happens? So _you_ can find out if it works or not?








Your tread is showing a slight loss of traction and the tires regaining traction before losing it again. This is could be from some sort of wheel hop, it actually looks exactly like ABS tire marks with the brakes repeatedly clamping and letting go again.


----------



## TGZ (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: But what about the RS/R? (gtiiiiiiii)*

Potterman, 
Can you tell me why you chose to go with a 3" exhaust setup when VF did a 2.5" on their car? Have you driven in their car and noticed any difference between the two?
Also, do you remember off hand the height you have your h&r coilovers set? How many threads showing front and rear? I ask because I was planning on doing the h&r's but for track days as well, not for looks.
Thanks for your time.


----------



## runningoutofspace (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: But what about the RS/R? (gtiiiiiiii)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtiiiiiiii* »_ 
Your tread is showing a slight loss of traction and the tires regaining traction before losing it again. This is could be from some sort of wheel hop, it actually looks exactly like ABS tire marks with the brakes repeatedly clamping and letting go again.

OFF TOPIC RESPONSE: With the LSD installed, I seem to be getting wheel hop instead of wheel spin. 
*ESP is off and when it launches, it take off @3000rpms much more faster. It could be the TCMs dialind down, but I really asked:
If V-F has installed an higher than 300hp BT kit on a stock DSG yet. That the real question because one of the guys at Autotech (while working on Revo's kit, I believe) stated that he had a big turbo kit installed on his car it was working fine. Yet, he wouldn't give away any secrets. (Not sure if its the same guy that posted pics of his personal BT project, but I'd like to know if V-F has tried it too)


_Modified by runningoutofspace at 6:52 PM 11-18-2007_


----------



## wale (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: But what about the RS/R? (runningoutofspace)*

how bad is the wheel hop? and is it still present with all the engine mounts and suspension setup?


----------



## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: But what about the RS/R? (wale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwVW* »_any way you can post up some street video clips with a close up on the gauges?

Sure can, give me a day or 2 

_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_any videos of the car rolling from the outside?

Can do that also http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *BIGNICKSGTIS420* »_Nice! How did it compete against the other cars?

Not bad, I run in the Red/Advanced group where I was one of 2 cars still with street tires so it's hard to compare really. I was a few seconds off the pace mostly because of tires/traction.....but my goal was really to see how well the DSG held up Not looking for the fastest lap time. 


_Quote, originally posted by *TGZ* »_Potterman, 
Can you tell me why you chose to go with a 3" exhaust setup when VF did a 2.5" on their car? Have you driven in their car and noticed any difference between the two?
Also, do you remember off hand the height you have your h&r coilovers set? How many threads showing front and rear? I ask because I was planning on doing the h&r's but for track days as well, not for looks.
Thanks for your time.

I did the 3" because I'm a Jetex Dealer & that's what they offer, also we were curoius if it would help at all over the 2.5" and I know those systems are quiet & that's what I wanted. 
In the pics above the fronts have about 1/4" left at the top & the rear is about 3/4's of the way down. 
Mike


----------



## Duckhashim (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: VF/GIAC - DSG - RSS installed ! ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Let the transmission abuse... I mean durability testing begin! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Haha thats hella funny


----------



## runningoutofspace (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: But what about the RS/R? (wale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wale* »_how bad is the wheel hop? and is it still present with all the engine mounts and suspension setup?

The wheel hop just happened one day when I launched above 3000 and heard a bumpy stumble going on at the front wheels as they tried to put it down. I started launching gradually above 2500 and now do it at/around 2900-3200rpm because the LSD countered the wheel slip so well, at any rpm below that, but maybe the TCMs are actually kicking it down or the ABS is coming in? I don't know, I just believe for right now, its best to take it easy and assess this later. Its only happened three times so far. I will first check the safe launching range, get the tires balanced again & maybe put some new ones up front.


----------



## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

hows the car doing mike? no one has posted in this for the longest. lol, any new updates


----------



## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_hows the car doing mike? no one has posted in this for the longest. lol, any new updates


Car is doing Great, drive it everyday back & forth to work & taking my kids to school along with a run up the freeway a few times a week. So far nothing bad to report. Car just goes, it's actually hard not to speed. My speed warning is @ 95 & lets just say it's way to easy to get there w/o even knowing it







I get on it when I can but if you go 1st-2nd-3rd @ FT your pretty much doubling the posted limits







.... and I *really* can't get another ticket







I've been meaning to get some vid's of the tach/speedo & some of the car from the outside but we have had Rain & now that it gets dark early it's been hard to find time. I should be able to do the video's this weekend. 


_Modified by Parts4vws at 12:27 PM 12-13-2007_


----------



## bigred35 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*

Great ride Mike! I hope to be BT soon as well.
-Sean


----------



## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Parts4vws* »_

Car is doing Great, drive it everyday back & forth to work & taking my kids to school along with a run up the freeway a few times a week. So far nothing bad to report. Car just goes, it's actually hard not to speed. My speed warning is @ 95 & lets just say it's way to easy to get there w/o even knowing it







I get on it when I can but if you go 1st-2nd-3rd @ FT your pretty much doubling the posted limits







.... and I *really* can get another ticket







I've been meaning to get some vid's of the tach/speedo & some of the car from the outside but we have had Rain & now that it gets dark early it's been hard to find time. I should be able to do the video's this weekend. 

ya those videos would be greatly appreciated mike!


----------



## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_
ya those videos would be greatly appreciated mike!










Here Ya go! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcNyP9MN7bY
The 1st few my son helped me out from the back seat, they are a hair bouncy but you get the picture. The 1st tach shot with the lights on was from a 2nd gear roll, rest were from a dead stop. 
Enjoy, Mike


----------



## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

thanks mike! lookin good!


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (darweezie21)*

Wow that is awesome


----------



## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

Did one more small video last week on X-mas day. It was one of the few times Kristen & myself were going to the same place in separate cars.....so I had my son video from in her car, which is a 07 Audi A3 2.0T DSG with GIAC & a 2.75 TBE. So the Audi is not slow & yes she does have it floored. I just wanted to show the accelleration difference with the RSS kit over a Chipped/Exhaust 2.0T. Please excuse the ZZ-Top in the vid









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpF97Lr1k3A

Enjoy!


----------



## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

hey mike, what are the current numbers on your dsg as of right now?


----------



## coolstrybrah (Feb 25, 2007)

*Re: (darweezie21)*

More vids!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Parts4vws (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_hey mike, what are the current numbers on your dsg as of right now?


We have not changed anything since Nik dyno'd it last. 285whp/275wtq http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## g60_corrado_91 (Oct 25, 2004)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*

Wow this is pretty amazing. How fast did you get up to when you were with your wife's car?


----------



## wale (Jun 24, 2007)

any updates on the dsg cars here? there is some1 who just started a post about switching/ comparing the vf rss kit and the apr stage3 kit...


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Parts4vws* »_

We have not changed anything since Nik dyno'd it last. 285whp/275wtq http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Is the DSG tune different than the 6MT?


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: (Parts4vws)*

Love the video clip Mike! I'm sure it's ultra responsive in the corners as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## wale (Jun 24, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Is the DSG tune different than the 6MT?

yeah the numbers seem smaller than normal...


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (wale)*

Yes, the DSG tune is a little more conservative than what the 6MTs get. For now at least


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Yes, the DSG tune is a little more conservative than what the 6MTs get. For now at least









Ahh, then that makes sense. 
What crank figures were you targeting and has any short or long term testing taking place with 6mt numbers on a DSG?


----------



## AndorGLI (Jul 29, 2007)

loving the vids... put it on the 1/4 mile to see what it gets!


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## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

anything new?


----------



## Potterman (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_anything new?

Nothing really to report. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif is all I can say. 
Did take it on a caynon run last weekend, all I can say is


----------



## darweezie21 (Jan 3, 2007)

*Re: (Potterman)*


_Quote »_
Did take it on a caynon run last weekend, all I can say is
















no vids of the canyon run?


----------



## Potterman (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: (darweezie21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darweezie21* »_
no vids of the canyon run?










No sorry







forgot the Camera. Next time I'll bring it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VR6 NRG (Apr 23, 1999)

*Re: (Potterman)*

i'll bring this back from the dead
how has the car been after driving it for well over a year now?


----------



## johnnyrebel (Nov 24, 2008)

yea i would also like to know how its doin


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (johnnyrebel)*

We just had a dyno session for 4 VF RSS cars and a MTM Stage 4 S3.
This is my dyno sheet. I must say I'm extremely disappointed with the numbers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## J-GTi (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: (boydloh)*

Disappointed is an understatement. 
Running VF's RSS2.0 kit on my DSG GTI
Here's my dyno chart for reference...didn't even touch 300hp on the crank.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (boydloh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_We just had a dyno session for 4 VF RSS cars and a MTM Stage 4 S3.
This is my dyno sheet. I must say I'm extremely disappointed with the numbers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 









You should post up the numbers of the other 3 RSS cars so people don't think this is normal power output for their kit.
I've seen a few random low power dyno's on APR Stage 3's and its always related to the health of the fueling system.


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

They are all the same. J-GTI already put his up. Another RSS car's chart looked almost exactly like his. I'll put it up when I get hold of his chart. The last RSS car made 335bhp, his was the only manual car in the group.


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (boydloh)*

The 3rd RSS DSG car, this was from a Jetta 2.0TFSI.
Red line was with water/meth. Green line is without.


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (boydloh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_They are all the same. J-GTI already put his up. Another RSS car's chart looked almost exactly like his. I'll put it up when I get hold of his chart. The last RSS car made 335bhp, his was the only manual car in the group.

hmmmm. unless its a fuel issue like apr stated above I would say go k04 for the win then.......they are putting down 300 wheel


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

Doesn't make sense that all 4 of us had fueling issues all at the same time right? By the way, we all had 98RON, it should be equivalent to 93 octane.
As a benchmark, there was an EVO 9 on the rollers just before us. Mildly tuned, he made 319bhp and he had another dyno chart which showed the exact same results. I would say this dyno we used is fairly consistent.


_Modified by boydloh at 10:19 AM 6-24-2009_


----------



## johnnyrebel (Nov 24, 2008)

no no those are all weak, gt6041 for me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## J-GTi (Jan 12, 2008)

We're waiting for the 4th dyno chart.
But a summary of the VF RSS BT kit dyno day results. 
These are crank power, not wheel power.
GTI - GT2871R - Manual - 335hp
GTI - GT2871R - GIAC DSG Reflash - 299hp
GTI - GT2860RS - GIAC DSG Reflash - 314hp
Jetta - GT2860RS - GIAC DSG Reflash - 298hp *water meth off


----------



## ebliss (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (boydloh)*

This is my car. To be fair, I am happy with the torque. The hp is simply disappointing.
Now, the question is, can anything be done from VF or GIAC side to get the quoted hp from the RSS kit? Getting 360 out of the quoted 385 is good enough for me. Not even touching 300 without water/meth is a joke for a stage 3 car...








gt2860 which is what I am using should be able to go up to 360hp...
if it is a modified one, I guess it can go higher and not lower?

_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_The 3rd RSS DSG car, this was from a Jetta 2.0TFSI.
Red line was with water/meth. Green line is without.











_Modified by ebliss at 1:07 PM 6-24-2009_


----------



## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (ebliss)*

you guys are scaring me.
I hope to have the car running by the end of next week and hoping to have some dyno runs in a couple of weeks.


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (loudgli)*

All I can say is good luck, sincerely, not trying to be sarcastic. 
I have lost confidence in VF's ability to deliver and to deliver on time too. 3 software revisions and 1 year of wait later, I'm giving up. I'm on the lookout for custom software now to resolve the jerking and sudden power surge issues.


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (boydloh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_All I can say is good luck, sincerely, not trying to be sarcastic. 
I have lost confidence in VF's ability to deliver and to deliver on time too. 3 software revisions and 1 year of wait later, I'm giving up. I'm on the lookout for custom software now to resolve the jerking and sudden power surge issues.


If that is crank like you say........
ouch!! sorry to hear your vf kits are not working as advertised. Check out unitronic.


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

Unfortunately, having a DSG really limits the power of a BT. I know as a matter of fact GIAC and VF have lowered the power on the RSS kit for the DSG as a matter of safety for the DSG and for longevity. 
A DSG reflash helps a lot, but its still nowhere near a 6mt when being dyno'd for power comparison.


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*

If that is the case, then they should state up front what DSG owners should expect. 
In any case, my understanding is that DSG owners were supposed to get 350bhp due to the engine speed cut at 6500rpm. With the DSG reflash, you will get exactly the same amount of power as a 6MT since we can go all the way to 7200rpm. From the dyno, that does not seem to be the case.


----------



## J-GTi (Jan 12, 2008)

We have a 6MT VF RSS Kit GTI that dyno'd as well. His numbers are nowhere near the advertised 385hp as well. 
6MT - 335hp
DSG - 314hp


_Modified by J-GTi at 11:05 PM 6-23-2009_


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

I thought it was 385hp at the crank which equates to roughly 320-340hp at the wheels.


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*

You are right, except that our dynoed power was crank power. Power at the wheels is a far cry from 300bhp.


----------



## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (boydloh)*

VF's latest dyno for mt's shows 350 whp.


----------



## ebliss (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (boydloh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_If that is the case, then they should state up front what DSG owners should expect. 
In any case, my understanding is that DSG owners were supposed to get 350bhp due to the engine speed cut at 6500rpm. With the DSG reflash, you will get exactly the same amount of power as a 6MT since we can go all the way to 7200rpm. From the dyno, that does not seem to be the case.

One of the owners had a dyno BEFORE the DSG reflash. It showed below 300hp at crank, was told that the dyno is not accurate and therefore he went to another dyno shop to re-test, from what I recall, the figures are similar.
After the DSG flash, the recent dyno showed his power is still under 300hp.
Therefore, the DSG flash did nothing to the power.
If VW sells a GTi, quoting 200bhp, would I expect anything lower than 200bhp if I were to dyno a stock GTi?
I think rather than guessing this and that, VF should have someone standing out and clarify our doubts and state clearly what a DSG car should get and what a MT car should get from their RSS kit.



_Modified by ebliss at 10:16 PM 6-24-2009_


----------



## J-GTi (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: (loudgli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *loudgli* »_VF's latest dyno for mt's shows 350 whp. 

any link to this Latest dyno?


----------



## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: (J-GTi)*

This sale link shows a dyno.
http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=4314617
I guess I made an assumption that it is 350whp because their website shows 385 crank.
I guess maybe I shouldn't have assumed?


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2007)

*Re: (loudgli)*

Hey guys,
I think this is going a little out of control. My personal car with a production kit makes the power. 9 out of 10 of the issues with low power can be directly attributed to fuel system issues pre-install or bad installs.
Please e-mail me for tech support, I have some things that can be checked to resolve the power. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks!
-Sean
Sean Crary
Sales Manager
VF-Engineering
Made in California
Office 714-528-0066
Cell 949-678-9186
http://www.VF-Engineering.com


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

I guess everyone is forgetting that when you slap on a turbo kit like the one from VF you need to examine the engine itself. I know for a matter of fact, my car had really bad carbon build up because of the FSI design and the PCV system. This alone can rob you power as the air flow into the cylinders may be dramatically reduced. I've since removed my engine and gave it a good overall clean and fixed the PCV.
I've got a Bosch 044 Motorsport in-tank fuel pump for over 10 months and planning to install it soon - been too busy. I'm pretty sure the stock in-tank fuel pump is hitting its limitation.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2007)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*

Great call Andy! Many people are neglecting the services on their engines. Look out for bad fuel filters, cam followers and warn spark plugs as root causes to low HP.
-Sean


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*

I don't think anyone of us forgot to do our own due diligence before the kit was fitted.
All the BT cars had their inlet ports cleaned out until they were gleaming. The PCVs have also been modified to run BSH stage 2, so chances of carbon build-up are a lot lower.
Spark plugs are all new and good. Fuel filter, cam followers etc. have all been replaced on all BT cars.


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Can you IM me your email address Sean? I'm interested to know what else we can do to troubleshoot. Statistically, 4 out of 4 cars not meeting power claims sounds too much of a coincidence to me. 
And before we go on to claim that the dyno is inaccurate, 2 of the 4 cars have been to 2 other separate dynos and the results were extremely close, all within 3-5bhp of each other.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (boydloh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_Can you IM me your email address Sean? I'm interested to know what else we can do to troubleshoot. Statistically, 4 out of 4 cars not meeting power claims sounds too much of a coincidence to me. 
And before we go on to claim that the dyno is inaccurate, 2 of the 4 cars have been to 2 other separate dynos and the results were extremely close, all within 3-5bhp of each other.

Log your * engine load * doing a 4th gear pull from 1500 to 6500rpm with your foot flat on the floor and post it up , 
this will show how strong the tune/ software







Bob.G



_Modified by rracerguy717 at 10:01 PM 6-24-2009_


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Sounds good, will do that tonite.


----------



## youngspeed (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (boydloh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_We just had a dyno session for 4 VF RSS cars and a MTM Stage 4 S3.
This is my dyno sheet. I must say I'm extremely disappointed with the numbers. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 









Hi Boyd,
I believe that there was an S3 stage 4 mtm that was dynoed as well. What was the claimed HP and what did he get? IIRC, you mentioned the s3 was pulling 340 crank on this very dyno( rated by mtm 380hp) This is a 40bhp loss
http://www.mtm-online.de/en/in...380qx
Going by deduction, if the S3 only made 340hp and the rss manual did only 335bhp, then the baseline of your dyno reads close to 40hp less then whats stated by MTM and VFE. THATS 40BHP loss.
If you add everything up,the DSG cars are actually making much higher bhp then dynoed on that machine.
Can you show us a dyno chart of the MTM stg 4? 
And did you not also mentioned to me that the RSS DSGs outpulled the MTM stg 4 S3 on the highway? Is the owner writing to MTM to complain about his 40 bhp loss and getting smoked by VF cars?

Please go to a dyno that is not biased! Best you post up the dyno graph of the s3 so that we know whether this is a low reading dyno, since both MTM and VF have similar loses on this particular dyno.
I am looking forward to seeing your logs on the engine load. Also if you can, log the torque on the vagcom as well.
_Modified by youngspeed at 11:54 PM 6/24/2009_


_Modified by youngspeed at 12:00 AM 6/25/2009_


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (youngspeed)*

Young,
Firstly, the dyno is not biased, regardless of what you claim. I have seen the results verified elsewhere on other dynos.
Secondly, we outpulled the S3 on the highway because he had a slipping clutch. He was also having boost issues in 3rd and 4th gear on the day of the run, that's why he could not keep up. Thereafter, the problem only seemed to happen only in 3rd. The local MTM agent has acknowledged the problems and are investigating. I do not have his dyno chart, I will ask him for it.
Lastly, I do not understand the logic of your deduction on the losses for dyno. Sorry but it just does not make sense to me?!?!
As for your request for another independent dyno at the dyno machine you mentioned, bear in mind I know of 2 other cars on K04 who have had their cars dynoed there and subsequently at the same place I went. They too reported very similar results.


----------



## youngspeed (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (boydloh)*

Boyd
my claimes are based on the fact that every single customer i had that have gone to that dyno, be it giac, unitronic, mtm, apr had amazingly low numbers. I wonder why? Isnt he the dealer for wett and dimsport? Isnt he the same guy who uses diodes to tune cars?

As for the "sick" mtm stg4 , it is akin to shifting the goal posts by saying that it is a "sick car when we bring it up as a moot point. You did mention it went for a dyno with you guys and it did lose power. So if its sick, why bother bringing it to dyno?? As far as i am concerned, it was outrun by the VFE cars.
As for the 2 k04 cars you mentioned, IIRC they were tuned by the very tuner that owns the dyno in question, so by logical deduction, they will make the numbers. 
Albeit the initial delays by VF when the kit was first launched, every new version was updated promptly. When the new version was released with the new 3 inch cold air intake, did VF even bill you? We gave you the 3 inch pipes FOC! 
Sorry man, Friends or not, this is a low blow to VFE, they have been on your side all along, trying to make an already good tune better.
As for the part throttle issue, VF has already sent the new springs to hold boost better FOC(again), too bad customs had to hold it up. I cant see how VF is not catering to your requests. Ask any other tuner, eg MTM etc and see how long you will wait for a response. IMHO, VF has been pretty prompt barring proper testing and Rand D. 
As an engineer in a similare industry, it saddens me when you have to resort to dodgy dynos to make a point.

_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_Young,
Firstly, the dyno is not biased, regardless of what you claim. I have seen the results verified elsewhere on other dynos.
Secondly, we outpulled the S3 on the highway because he had a slipping clutch. He was also having boost issues in 3rd and 4th gear on the day of the run, that's why he could not keep up. Thereafter, the problem only seemed to happen only in 3rd. The local MTM agent has acknowledged the problems and are investigating. I do not have his dyno chart, I will ask him for it.
Lastly, I do not understand the logic of your deduction on the losses for dyno. Sorry but it just does not make sense to me?!?!
As for your request for another independent dyno at the dyno machine you mentioned, bear in mind I know of 2 other cars on K04 who have had their cars dynoed there and subsequently at the same place I went. They too reported very similar results.


----------



## boydloh (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: (youngspeed)*

Young,
I am not about to start sliming any tuner in this forum, VF included. I thought we agreed to take this offline? Why this post? If I were to play by your rules and talk about the things that tuners do, there will be loads of crap to spill, including yours; don't even get me started.
Why did the S3 go for the dyno? Because we invited him. And because he wanted to know if he had a case with mtm. It's only $100 for 3 runs, not like it costed him an arm or a leg.
I take offence at being accused of using a dodgy dyno. I don't think it makes any difference trying to explain anymore. You obviously have a fixed minset without even trying to be logical.
This is not even funny man. You can keep the springs and all the nice stuff that VF is sending. I'm no longer interested.


----------



## youngspeed (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (boydloh)*

It was never meant to be funny and i am glad i caught you attention. This is a retort to your post. As for agreeing to take this off line, yes, we will, but I have to make a stand. Like I said before, I do not respect anything that comes from that dyno. And as for sliming, you have to look in the mirror to see who is doing the sliming.
As for keeping the springs, no. It is meant for you to solve you "surging" issues. Thats the difference between being emotional and being professional and solving problems. You of all people should know that.

_Quote, originally posted by *boydloh* »_Young,
I am not about to start sliming any tuner in this forum, VF included. I thought we agreed to take this offline? Why this post? If I were to play by your rules and talk about the things that tuners do, there will be loads of crap to spill, including yours; don't even get me started.
Why did the S3 go for the dyno? Because we invited him. And because he wanted to know if he had a case with mtm. It's only $100 for 3 runs, not like it costed him an arm or a leg.
I take offence at being accused of using a dodgy dyno. I don't think it makes any difference trying to explain anymore. You obviously have a fixed minset without even trying to be logical.
This is not even funny man. You can keep the springs and all the nice stuff that VF is sending. I'm no longer interested.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_Unfortunately, having a DSG really limits the power of a BT.

I've heard this time and time again, however unless the kit is making peak horsepower after redline ~6800 rpm, this is not true. Where have these DSG power limit myths come from?


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I've heard this time and time again, however unless the kit is making peak horsepower after redline ~6800 rpm, this is not true. Where have these DSG power limit myths come from?


people are assuming that tuners are making watered down tunes for DSG cars to satisfy the torque rating of the dsg trans. nothing concrete as usual


----------



## J-GTi (Jan 12, 2008)

*Re: (youngspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *youngspeed* »_it saddens me when you have to resort to dodgy dynos to make a point.


Would you like to sponsor all the 4 RSS kitted cars to go for a dyno on a "non-dogdy" dyno machine?


----------



## ebliss (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (youngspeed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *youngspeed* »_As for the part throttle issue, VF has already sent the new springs to hold boost better FOC(again), too bad customs had to hold it up.

Since you brought up the issue of the springs online, may I know what happened to them? I only heard that it is on the way since May when you sms me. After that, no news. Now then I know that it is stuck at the custom. Are the springs dangerous or can they be used as part of the terrorist weapon?


----------



## ebliss (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_Unfortunately, having a DSG really limits the power of a BT.

Then how does the RSR kit come about? I know it can be used in DSG cars by upgrading the rods and pistons. I didn't see anything about upgrading DSG gear box for the RSR kit.


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (ebliss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ebliss* »_
Since you brought up the issue of the springs online, may I know what happened to them? I only heard that it is on the way since May when you sms me. After that, no news. Now then I know that it is stuck at the custom. Are the springs dangerous or can they be used as part of the terrorist weapon?

i can vouch for customs services being like the DMV, post office, airport........GOOD LUCK!!
They basically sit on certain packages sometimes for no reasons. Ive been dealing with getting OEM parts out of germany for 10 years now......its a crap shoot at best.


----------



## youngspeed (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (ebliss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ebliss* »_
Since you brought up the issue of the springs online, may I know what happened to them? I only heard that it is on the way since May when you sms me. After that, no news. Now then I know that it is stuck at the custom. Are the springs dangerous or can they be used as part of the terrorist weapon?

Ebliss
you know why its stuck as I explained the exact reason to you before over phone text. Sarcasm wont make it faster, it only reflects on how juvenile this is getting.


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Arin,
The DSG gearbox is controlled by a DSG computer, which limits the power output of the engine to keep it within the safe limits of its operating parametres. A lot of the time when it comes to BT and DSG, tuners play it safe as they do not want a customer breaking a DSG gearbox. A manual gearbox is much easier and cheaper to upgrade.
The DSG rev limiter is 6800rpm. A GT2860RS makes more power after 7000rpm. So it is true that DSG pushes out less power which can be comfirmed with dyno measuring two GTI's one with an without DSG. The DSG shifting is what makes the car faster than manual not its absolute power output. And also the DSG gearbox is a wet gearbox, hence there is more drivetrain loss...isn't this all something you should know working for a tuning company????


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: (ebliss)*

The RSR is simply rod,pistons and new injectors and a tune. I'm still running the RSS tune as I have yet to upgrade my DSG clutches.


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## ebliss (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (youngspeed)*

Young,
I don't think you have spoken to me about it. Maybe to Boyd, but not to me.


_Quote, originally posted by *youngspeed* »_
Ebliss
you know why its stuck as I explained the exact reason to you before over phone text. Sarcasm wont make it faster, it only reflects on how juvenile this is getting.


----------



## ebliss (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_The RSR is simply rod,pistons and new injectors and a tune. I'm still running the RSS tune as I have yet to upgrade my DSG clutches. 

Just those changes can get up to >400whp... How would the dsg limit the performance of the BT like you mentioned earlier?


----------



## Jovian (Aug 29, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I've heard this time and time again, however unless the kit is making peak horsepower after redline ~6800 rpm, this is not true. Where have these DSG power limit myths come from?


I remember when you did those crazy detailed test before you worked at APR with the DSG showing shifting. I would say Arin knows what he is talking about with DGS.


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## youngspeed (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (ebliss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ebliss* »_Young,
I don't think you have spoken to me about it. Maybe to Boyd, but not to me.



Ryan, 
Come down to the shop as I want to do some data logging to see if your car is healthy.


----------



## youngspeed (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (J-GTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J-GTi* »_
Would you like to sponsor all the 4 RSS kitted cars to go for a dyno on a "non-dogdy" dyno machine? 

Nope, wont do that. But I can direct you to neutral dynos that are fairly accurate. All you need is a baseline of your car, then we can talk. Like I mentioned to you before, I am open to all feedback, and am willing to help you get your numbers. I have tried sms calling you today but no joy, get back to me if you want to move on. It will be offline from here


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: (youngspeed)*

Yes he did all those tests with a K03...we are talking about a GT2860 or GT2871 here...very different turbos, different power outputs so his logs on when he was K03 is irrelevant.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_Arin,
The DSG gearbox is controlled by a DSG computer, which limits the power output of the engine to keep it within the safe limits of its operating parametres. A lot of the time when it comes to BT and DSG, tuners play it safe as they do not want a customer breaking a DSG gearbox. A manual gearbox is much easier and cheaper to upgrade.
The DSG rev limiter is 6800rpm. A GT2860RS makes more power after 7000rpm. So it is true that DSG pushes out less power which can be comfirmed with dyno measuring two GTI's one with an without DSG. The DSG shifting is what makes the car faster than manual not its absolute power output. And also the DSG gearbox is a wet gearbox, hence there is more drivetrain loss...isn't this all something you should know working for a tuning company????

APR software is not affected by this mythological DSG controlled power limit. Please show me instances of the DSG limiting torque at the, iirc, 258 ft-lbs limit.


----------



## EL_3grab (Mar 25, 2006)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_Arin,
The DSG gearbox is controlled by a DSG computer, which limits the power output of the engine to keep it within the safe limits of its operating parametres. A lot of the time when it comes to BT and DSG, tuners play it safe as they do not want a customer breaking a DSG gearbox. A manual gearbox is much easier and cheaper to upgrade.
The DSG rev limiter is 6800rpm. A GT2860RS makes more power after 7000rpm. So it is true that DSG pushes out less power which can be comfirmed with dyno measuring two GTI's one with an without DSG. The DSG shifting is what makes the car faster than manual not its absolute power output. And also the DSG gearbox is a wet gearbox, hence there is more drivetrain loss...isn't this all something you should know working for a tuning company????

Sometime the DSG would shift as low as 6300rpm
GT2871R DSG, spinning 1 & 2nd, on S-paddle , ESP off
http://img339.imageshack.us/im...0.png


_Modified by EL_3grab at 3:00 AM 6-28-2009_


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...92108
Here's a link some description of the torque limiting the DSG has. 
This is what your boss said:
"Although we haven't verified it yet, I have a sneaking suspicion that the torque limit everyone is referring to is the torque shedding feature that occurs right before a shift.
Meaning, once the DSG decides to shift, timing gets all retarded and the torque is limited right before and during the shift to avoid stressing the clutch packs during engagement.
If no shift is initiated by the DSG TCU then no torque is limited.
So, let's say we are on the dyno.
We are staying in 3rd gear to redline. No torque limit because we aren't shifting and the dyno graph looks smooth and nice.
Now, we are starting in 3rd get and are going to shift to fourth on the dyno.
Redline is approaching and the torque is exactly where it should be, let's call it 300wtrq.
Suddenly the DSG says, "prepare to shift!", the torque then plummets to say 250 or whatever the limit is, the 3rd gear clutch comes out, the 4th gear clutch goes back in and torque is delivered as normal again.
So, you aren't limited to a certain torque during clutch out, but once you put the clutch in, torque is limited until clutch out again.
I think what HPA is saying is that during this shifting process, you now clutch in at 500nm's instead of 300nm's or whatever. "
So from reading what Keith said, as the DSG begins sensing the need for a gear shift, it automatically retards the timing and limits the torque by the engine to allow it to engage the next gear safely. Since the gearbox doesn't have a dyno feature (wish it did) where you can stop it from shifting and have it go all out, the DSG automatically limits engine output as soon as it senses it time to shift. I'm pretty sure the DSG system begins limiting power at around 6000rpm and probably a bit higher on a DSG with a tune from HPA or GIAC. 
I'm sure you have seen dyno's of a chipped car from the same tuner, one manual and one DSG and the manual always produces higher figures. 
If any common sense is applied, the design of the DSG, wet clutches, wet system also robs the car of a little power. I'm happy the APR software isn't affect by this, but that could be because the APR software doesn't make the same amount of power as other tuners, who knows.

_Modified by aussievfrss at 9:04 PM 6-28-2009_


_Modified by aussievfrss at 9:05 PM 6-28-2009_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...92108
Here's a link some description of the torque limiting the DSG has. 
This is what your boss said:
"Although we haven't verified it yet, I have a sneaking suspicion that the torque limit everyone is referring to is the torque shedding feature that occurs right before a shift.
Meaning, once the DSG decides to shift, timing gets all retarded and the torque is limited right before and during the shift to avoid stressing the clutch packs during engagement.
If no shift is initiated by the DSG TCU then no torque is limited.
So, let's say we are on the dyno.
We are staying in 3rd gear to redline. No torque limit because we aren't shifting and the dyno graph looks smooth and nice.
Now, we are starting in 3rd get and are going to shift to fourth on the dyno.
Redline is approaching and the torque is exactly where it should be, let's call it 300wtrq.
Suddenly the DSG says, "prepare to shift!", the torque then plummets to say 250 or whatever the limit is, the 3rd gear clutch comes out, the 4th gear clutch goes back in and torque is delivered as normal again.
So, you aren't limited to a certain torque during clutch out, but once you put the clutch in, torque is limited until clutch out again.
I think what HPA is saying is that during this shifting process, you now clutch in at 500nm's instead of 300nm's or whatever. "
So from reading what Keith said, as the DSG begins sensing the need for a gear shift, it automatically retards the timing and limits the torque by the engine to allow it to engage the next gear safely. Since the gearbox doesn't have a dyno feature (wish it did) where you can stop it from shifting and have it go all out, the DSG automatically limits engine output as soon as it senses it time to shift. I'm pretty sure the DSG system begins limiting power at around 6000rpm and probably a bit higher on a DSG with a tune from HPA or GIAC. 
I'm sure you have seen dyno's of a chipped car from the same tuner, one manual and one DSG and the manual always produces higher figures. 
If any common sense is applied, the design of the DSG, wet clutches, wet system also robs the car of a little power. I'm happy the APR software isn't affect by this, but that could be because the APR software doesn't make the same amount of power as other tuners, who knows.

_Modified by aussievfrss at 9:04 PM 6-28-2009_

_Modified by aussievfrss at 9:05 PM 6-28-2009_

Incorrect, but good attempt at taking something I wrote that means something completely different than what you want it to mean and turning into what you want it to mean even though that's not at all what it means.
This "sensing" occurs when you pull the paddle. If you don't pull the paddle or if you hold the paddle while on the dyno keeping it from shifting..........
nothing happens. power is only limited during the actual shifting process.
Furthermore, I relayed it was a hypothesis based on information provided by HPA.


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

Yes, but you also forget to mention that the ECU also sets a limit on the power that can be transmitted to the gearbox. Our ECU has the ability to sense the amount of Torque it is producing. There is a limiting factor build into the DSG gearboxes. 
We all know this limiting factor exists, so no need to discredit others from offering a product simply because your company does not offer it.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_Yes, but you also forget to mention that the ECU also sets a limit on the power that can be transmitted to the gearbox. Our ECU has the ability to sense the amount of Torque it is producing. There is a limiting factor build into the DSG gearboxes. 
We all know this limiting factor exists, so no need to discredit others from offering a product simply because your company does not offer it.

If our software is affected by this limit, why can I take my own car well above 300ft lbs?










_Modified by [email protected] at 10:19 AM 7-7-2009_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_Yes, but you also forget to mention that the ECU also sets a limit on the power that can be transmitted to the gearbox. Our ECU has the ability to sense the amount of Torque it is producing. There is a limiting factor build into the DSG gearboxes.
 
I didn't forget to mention anything as noone can show any data proving the existence of this mythical limit.
It only affects torque output during a gear change.
Maybe there is a limit in the ecu as you say but it simply doesn't affect APR ecu upgrades whether Stage 1 or Stage 3. FWIW, it doesn't seem to affect any other tuners in North America either.


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_We all know this limiting factor exists, so no need to discredit others from offering a product simply because your company does not offer it.

What are you talking about? Noone has discredited anyone in this thread.


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

There you go again, trying to call someone crazy. We have had plenty of arguments like the ones about APR software tricking the secondary o2 sensor etc. Why don't you APR guys stick to your APR threads and let other companies sort their own **** out. I know you have plenty of problems to fix of your own.


----------



## Guy @ HP - APR Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_I guess everyone is forgetting that when you slap on a turbo kit like the one from VF you need to examine the engine itself. I know for a matter of fact, my car had really bad carbon build up because of the FSI design and the PCV system. This alone can rob you power as the air flow into the cylinders may be dramatically reduced. I've since removed my engine and gave it a good overall clean and fixed the PCV.
I've got a Bosch 044 Motorsport in-tank fuel pump for over 10 months and planning to install it soon - been too busy. I'm pretty sure the stock in-tank fuel pump is hitting its limitation. 


Aussievfrss - to help out the fellows with the questions about their power output (The ones in Singapore)- seeming you have the same kit as they do AND you have the DSG gearbox (Same as them) - why do you not post your dyno's for comparison - that might help to see if there is something wrong with their cars or not & help move forward with the thread.


----------



## shortydub (Oct 13, 2004)

how cute, you guys are both the fastest in Australia...


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...73859
Go and read this Keith, your pal in Australia dyno'd 300kw atw with yur Stage 3 by intelligently locating the intake air temp sensor in the throttle body or so he says and allowing it to read 240 plus degree celsius


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/...73859
Go and read this Keith, your pal in Australia dyno'd 300kw atw with yur Stage 3 by intelligently locating the intake air temp sensor in the throttle body or so he says and allowing it to read 240 plus degree celsius









That's pretty interesting. I wonder where he put the probe when he ran that 12?
and it would also be interesting to see your trap speed and dyno from the kit you have that makes an advertised 130hp more than Guy's but runs the same times. Granted, you were down a whole 2 octane points.




_Modified by [email protected] at 5:08 PM 7-8-2009_


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## Guy @ HP - APR Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: (Guy @ HP - APR Oz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Guy @ HP - APR Oz* »_
Aussievfrss - to help out the fellows with the questions about their power output (The ones in Singapore)- seeming you have the same kit as they do AND you have the DSG gearbox (Same as them) - why do you not post your dyno's for comparison - that might help to see if there is something wrong with their cars or not & help move forward with the thread.









Andy, Are you going to help out these fellows with your dyno or not?
I have plenty of dyno's of my car from about 5 different dyno's - but it's no use to the posters as they have the VF kit - I have the APR kit - come on - be a sport & help them out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

Sorry Guy, its pretty hard to find a dyno operator willing to let me stick their intake temp probe in the throttle body. They say the right way to dyno it is to stick the intake probe on the front of the intake.
I'll show you a dyno as soon as I can find out that is willing to rig it like your operator


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## Bug_racer (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (shortydub)*

Guy H come to the drags ROTFL . After many invites and challenges to the drags I dont bother . I still am willing to line up against you at warwick where I will drive over 500 miles to race you at a VW event . I know I know , your too busy out of the country for business or have to go fishing or something . If track racing is your specialty then come down to Eastern creek in October where I will be sponsering a track meet . http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Guy @ HP - APR Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_Sorry Guy, its pretty hard to find a dyno operator willing to let me stick their intake temp probe in the throttle body. They say the right way to dyno it is to stick the intake probe on the front of the intake.
I'll show you a dyno as soon as I can find out that is willing to rig it like your operator









Funny, It was at a public forum dyno day, with over a dozen witness's.
Anyway, looking forward to your dyno. So you have an RSR kit & have never done a dyno?
here is another of ours from a public dyno day:


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## Guy @ HP - APR Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: (Bug_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_racer* »_Guy H come to the drags ROTFL . After many invites and challenges to the drags I dont bother . I still am willing to line up against you at warwick where I will drive over 500 miles to race you at a VW event . I know I know , your too busy out of the country for business or have to go fishing or something . If track racing is your specialty then come down to Eastern creek in October where I will be sponsering a track meet . http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

My drag times are in my signature.
Why would I drive 500 miles when I can drive 50?
Anyway, we have done our 3 runs done the drag strip as you requested, posted the time in my sig - surely you should be happy







.
I must admit that drag racing was even less fun than watching paint dry.
So Bug_Racer - you going to Race us on the circuit - That's awesome, I'm looking forward to that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bug_racer (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (Guy @ HP - APR Oz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Guy @ HP - APR Oz* »_
My drag times are in my signature.
Why would I drive 500 miles when I can drive 50?
Anyway, we have done our 3 runs done the drag strip as you requested, posted the time in my sig - surely you should be happy







.
I must admit that drag racing was even less fun than watching paint dry.
So Bug_Racer - you going to Race us on the circuit - That's awesome, I'm looking forward to that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Yeah you could drive 50 and support a VW event in your own backyard but choose not to 
110mph is the best mph you got ? Surely not with a gt2871r with intercooler , full exhaust etc etc . My best mph in the s3 in fwd mode was 115 !
So tell me , if driving in a straight line is that boring either you must like driving in a circle or figure 8 or your car just doesnt have enough power for you to enjoy the adrenalin rush of accelerating hard .
Yeah , happy to race you on a circuit . Im moving to a larger premises so I havent been to any recent drag/dyno/circuit events .


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## Guy @ HP - APR Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: (Bug_racer)*

Lol - See you at the circuit then!
110 mph? - I thought that was pretty good ??? - my car has now been down the drag strip 4 times - what speed is it supposed to run? (Oh & my car is a GTI not an S3...)
I also have 60 foot times of 2.3 seconds - so that means I am a real gun drag racer (or so they tell me!).
Here is a Video of our slow GTI, chasing down a big Monaro that runs low 11's in the quarter - strange, we could catch & pass it on the track...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEy9L8_rNdU


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

Yawn...you must really need to stroke yourself to make yourself feel better.


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## QuickA4 (Nov 11, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Jeezus!!! 240deg C INTAKE TEMPS!!! Holy crap
mine with 386KW at 4 wheels dont go over 43 deg C.
240 deg, what no intercooler maybe??
a Engine with 240deg Charge temp is not very healthy....


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

Must be running a super duper compressor on his car.


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## Bug_racer (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*

Nah there was a special dyno day at Mercury that we werent invited too .


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (Bug_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_racer* »_Nah there was a special dyno day at Mercury that we werent invited too .










_Quote, originally posted by *Guy @ HP - APR Oz* »_A special invite to [...] bug_racer to uphold VW's honor at Australia's premier motoring magazine. [...] It's in Bug_Racers own backyard, so should be perfect for him! [...] Will suit the big HP people as well - as there is a dyno test & also 1/4 mile runs - all count to the final score. All done by a magazine & independent pro drivers.


_Quote, originally posted by *Bug_racer* »_I cant make it.


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

Seems like someone has been smoking too much Meth.
Hey Arin, take it easy mate!
Hey Arin your quote about poor quality also applies to products that are overcharged here in Australia. 


_Modified by aussievfrss at 11:19 PM 7-14-2009_


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## aussiegiacr32 (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*

if you look carefully, the invite was posted the day after the RSVP had passed.








so how do you expect people to make it at such short notice????


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## Guy @ HP - APR Oz (Sep 3, 2008)

*Re: (aussiegiacr32)*

See the other thread, the invite has been personally opened up for aussievfrss to enter his car - so much so, that they have reserved a spot for him.
Short notice? How long will be good? - not my comp, nor my invite, I did pass it on though. I would hate to think he would miss out on an opportunity.


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## Bug_racer (Oct 13, 2002)

*Re: (aussiegiacr32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussiegiacr32* »_if you look carefully, the invite was posted the day after the RSVP had passed.








so how do you expect people to make it at such short notice????









Exactly . I plan my events months in advance . Since the workshop is open 7 days a week I need to plan to basically close it to go to events . A few days noticed doesnt work for me . 12 months for the next one leaves me with no excuses . I'll be there , next year http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## aussiegiacr32 (Jul 15, 2009)

*Re: (Guy @ HP - APR Oz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Guy @ HP - APR Oz* »_See the other thread, the invite has been personally opened up for aussievfrss to enter his car - so much so, that they have reserved a spot for him.
Short notice? How long will be good? - not my comp, nor my invite, I did pass it on though. I would hate to think he would miss out on an opportunity.

I understand that you passed it on, but with 2 weeks notice, how do you expect someone to prepare their car for an event such as this. And if you have noticed on golfmkv, he has sold some of his parts as he is making changes to the car.
How long ago did you receive the invite?? I would have thought that being a long-term continuing advertiser in MOTOR magazine, they might have sent you that invite probably months in advanced?? And you only happened to pass it on only after the RSVP date had passed.
I for one would like to see some VW's kick some butt, but to mock aussievfrss and bug_racer for not going this year is not right as they have had no notice.


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## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

How kind of you to reserve a spot for me. Did you fill in a form and sign my name too? What else have you done on my behalf, get a credit card with yourself as an additional holder?
Anyway, I think I can speak for myself, there is no need for you to represent me, as I would be ashamed to have you represent me in anyway or speak on my behalf in any way.
Now that reminds me, I got some invitation to some Gay Group Sex Party with a referrer justed named Guy. I guess it can be any Guy, but I don't swing curve balls. Sorry.
Oh yeah forgot to add...you know it is illegal for you to represent for someone without permission. You might want to delete your post about reserving me a spot incase I use it against you. Oh wait...bummers already done a pdf of this thread. I take this quite seriously as fraud is a major issue in this day and age. Can you clarify if you have also used my personal details for other things like credit cards or home loans etc. Much appreciated.



_Modified by aussievfrss at 6:24 PM 7-15-2009_


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


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