# Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software?



## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

As the VR6 has AFM, can it run any boost at all before software is needed or will it just go to limp?
Just out of interest.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*

it wont go limp... it will just melt everything into everything ... lol 
you will need FI software and matching injectors when running boost on a vr6


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (PjS860ct)*

Yeah I do understand that, but does it handle any boost at all?
What about usign extra injector drivers and standard software, what would happen?
This is all theoretical as obviously there is good software out there it's just for interests sake. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Autoboost-tech (Dec 27, 2009)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*

I would be more worried about the timing than fuel, just adding fuel wont save the motor from pre-ignition damage, seen it happen!


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*

hmmm im not sure, it would probably run ok for a while in vacuum but once it sees boost it will run rough, stumble, run wicked lean and die a painful death... lol ... cus stock injectors alone wont be able to support the fuel needed to cool things down in there plus the stock software wont know what to do when it sees positive pressure... also keep in mind a stock fuel pump can also only handle 10psi safely with the right software and injectors then an inline pump is needed... 
extra injectors will just be a mess and over thinking a simple thing... 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (Autoboost-tech)*

Ah right, so the knock control of standard ECU will not account enough for boost?
I have added extra injectors to Peugeot/Citroen engines in the past 1600cc 16v with Rotrex chargers fitted and we found that the standard knock control would retard the ignition effectively.
These engine ran map sensors so we would clamp map voltage at atmospheric pressure and begin adding extra fuel and let standard ECU deal with ignition. We ran up to 210bhp at front wheels like this from engines that ran 100whp as standard.








Although probably easier to deal with ignition with a linear boost curve.


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barrygti* »_Ah right, so the knock control of standard ECU will not account enough for boost? standard knock control would retard the ignition effectively.








Although probably easier to deal with ignition with a linear boost curve. 

you know if you increase the octane proportionately with the boost, there need to be no other changes
i personally use oe cylinder selective knock sensor ignition/ecu/VE ignition map, you can get the perfect VE na chip for $100 more to advance the timing 7 more degrees
the stock ecu absolutely will retard enough, especially if your "goals" are to design the entire package to keep stock squish, spark map & oe eff up, not down
my last vrt had stock comp, 7 deg adv timing, although i logged nothing, it sure felt like it didn't pull ANY timing @ double stock hp with a real eff turbo & e85
makes for a great drag setup, although it gets hot faster & hitting the knockers much makes for hesitation & failure
EDIT of course if you put in huge injectors & rising rate regulator to match
i also dis the maf for speed density, ISV & O2, run the temp sensor off a 10k ohm pot










_Modified by EL DRIFTO at 1:54 PM 4-18-2010_


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (EL DRIFTO)*

Can you explain a little more?
So are you saying that if I ran standard ECU and clamped the air flow signal but used extra injectors for the extra fuelling then it would run ok?


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*

Do not ever clamp your AFM. EVER!
When are people going to learn that the OBD1 ecu is just as easy to tune as any honda ecu?


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (TIGninja)*

techtonics can reflash obd1 for $100, but that was years ago
i'm just saying you can use the max timing with racing gas & low ex pres boost
there's allot of folks out there that aren't in here suping up tractors & such


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (EL DRIFTO)*

you can run some sort of boost with the stock software but keep in mind that it'll be very little as the injectors will max out and so will the maf readings. This is the reason why you go up in injector and MAF housings, so that the you drop the maf voltage and have more resolution to play with.
you could just go up in injector by x amount and maf housing area but the same x amount and be good with it if it wasn't for the fact that the ignition timing is also based on the same MAF voltage.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*

i ran 6psi through a v1 for a while without anyproblems in summer with ac http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif drove it all over the place and it saw 6.5k rpm almost daily


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (dub_slug)*

i put in beefed up fuel pump & ran 130 psi through the oe 19lb injectors
they were static & lean @ 7 psi for years


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (EL DRIFTO)*

you can always VAG the setup to see if there's any timing being pulled


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

heres a inverse question, what of running 42 software and injectors with out the boost?
temp without the boost.


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## VEEDUB_FAZEVR6 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barrygti* »_As the VR6 has AFM, can it run any boost at all before software is needed or will it just go to limp?
Just out of interest.









when you buy a turbo KIT, it should come with the proper software


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## GoingUp (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (VEEDUB_FAZEVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VEEDUB_FAZEVR6* »_
when you buy a turbo KIT, it should come with the proper software

A lot of us don't just buy a kit though, it's a lot more fun that way


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*

My first VRT was a stock motor with 8.5:1 spacer, stock OBD2 and injectors, GT3071R @ 10psi, BEGI FMU, Walbro GSS340 intank pump, Split Second voltage clamp and Schimmel AWIC.
That ran perfect. Stock AFRs off boost and mid 12s in boost and zero knock regulation.
If you pull up a stock timing map with WinOLS, the advance past 50% load is not that high past 3600rpm. Mid to low 20s.
The two problem areas are 2800rpm @ 32 deg and 6000+rpm @ 27 deg, but for 8.5:1 and intercooled, it's not an issue. It wasn't for me at least. I ran it that way for ages and then ditched Motronic and went standalone because I wanted to experiment with better quality injectors, set my own lambda targetting and get rid of the the silly MAF sensor.
So yes, it's very easy to do and very nice


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## VEEDUB_FAZEVR6 (Jun 26, 2009)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (GoingUp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoingUp* »_
A lot of us don't just buy a kit though, it's a lot more fun that way









that explains why this thread exists, lol


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (kevhayward)*

Well this gets more and more interesting......
If what you say is true then there is no reason I couldn't run a voltage clamp on MAF to stop it going off scale and instead of a FMU I could run an extra injector controller for fine tuning in boost.....









_Quote, originally posted by *kevhayward* »_My first VRT was a stock motor with 8.5:1 spacer, stock OBD2 and injectors, GT3071R @ 10psi, BEGI FMU, Walbro GSS340 intank pump, Split Second voltage clamp and Schimmel AWIC.
That ran perfect. Stock AFRs off boost and mid 12s in boost and zero knock regulation.
If you pull up a stock timing map with WinOLS, the advance past 50% load is not that high past 3600rpm. Mid to low 20s.
The two problem areas are 2800rpm @ 32 deg and 6000+rpm @ 27 deg, but for 8.5:1 and intercooled, it's not an issue. It wasn't for me at least. I ran it that way for ages and then ditched Motronic and went standalone because I wanted to experiment with better quality injectors, set my own lambda targetting and get rid of the the silly MAF sensor.
So yes, it's very easy to do and very nice


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## ade007 (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: (masterqaz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *masterqaz* »_heres a inverse question, what of running 42 software and injectors with out the boost?
temp without the boost.

on my none turbo stock n/a vr6 i ran 36lb injectors with obd1 4bar fpr ( = 438.79 cc ) with only a larger maf housing this was with the vw original ecu software no tune ........ the car ran exact same 14.7 afr idle no change in cold starts or power mpg etc ...i drove the car for 2 years like this and never had any fuel adaptation trim fault codes.. 440cc injectors with an obd2 3bar fpr has same affect on my engine


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barrygti* »_Well this gets more and more interesting......
If what you say is true then there is no reason I couldn't run a voltage clamp on MAF to stop it going off scale and instead of a FMU I could run an extra injector controller for fine tuning in boost.....










Yep, but the clamp tuning will need experimentation. Some still clip and shut the injectors down, but aim for 4.5V to start with (to allow for voltage creep) and then slowly fine tune it and get as close to 4.8V as possible, without clipping.
Extra injector controller? Do you mean staged injection or a single 5th injector? If the latter, I seriously wouldn't. Just use the BEGI and uprated pump, it works spot on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (kevhayward)*

Yes I was thinking extra injector controller with up to 4 extra injectors that come on when on boost. They are really easy to setup and tune and can be setup to start fuelling slightly before boost where a FMU can't really do this.


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## MaxVW (Nov 4, 2004)

so how can the maf go off of the scale if it is only fed 5v. Shouldn't it just stop at 5v? Or does the ecu freek out when it see 5 v?


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*

FMU can't really do this.[/QUOTE]
but a RRR can
what if you wanted your ecu actively pushing the timing up, motronic style, cause you had longer cams, colder engine, some xylene & the need to beat the next cookie cutter with a thermostat


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## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (Autoboost-tech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Autoboost-tech* »_I would be more worried about the timing than fuel, just adding fuel wont save the motor from pre-ignition damage, seen it happen!

Someone who knows wat they are talking about ^


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (mcdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mcdub* »_
Someone who knows wat they are talking about ^

Yes and here is someone that has real experience also:

_Quote, originally posted by *kevhayward* »_If you pull up a stock timing map with WinOLS, the advance past 50% load is not that high past 3600rpm. Mid to low 20s.
The two problem areas are 2800rpm @ 32 deg and 6000+rpm @ 27 deg, but for 8.5:1 and intercooled, it's not an issue. It wasn't for me at least. ^


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (EL DRIFTO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EL DRIFTO* »_FMU can't really do this.

but a RRR can
what if you wanted your ecu actively pushing the timing up, motronic style, cause you had longer cams, colder engine, some xylene & the need to beat the next cookie cutter with a thermostat







[/QUOTE]
Then I assume you would need standalone, my car would be a used to go to work and on circuits at weekends. Not drag racing.


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## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barrygti* »_
Yes and here is someone that has real experience also:


too bad you dont know how to break into the ecu cause then you wouldnt be asking these types of questions.
Hense buy the software have a nice ****ing day.


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## barrygti (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (mcdub)*

Too bad the people that do know won't share it.









_Quote, originally posted by *mcdub* »_
too bad you dont know how to break into the ecu cause then you wouldnt be asking these types of questions.
Hense buy the software have a nice ****ing day.


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## masterqaz (Oct 5, 2007)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barrygti* »_Too bad the people that do know won't share it.










they wont share cause then you wont pay them to do it for you.
i know a guy that cracks ducatti ecu's. theres money in that lol
not to sure about our vr's


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (barrygti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *barrygti* »_Too bad the people that do know won't share it.










or the people who shouldnt be doing it, arent doing it. How to do it has been posted in this freaking thread. lol


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: Can a VR6 run ANY boost on standard Software? (masterqaz)*

if i turn the 10k potentiometer, on the dash, for 30% adj af ratios, i can shut the knock sensors off by turning it all the way, to the right, cold


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