# Frankenturbo Unitronic OVERBOOST PROBLEMS!!!



## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I am having severe problems with over boost. This has been going since the FT and Unitronic stage 2+ 440 cc file was installed. The car will over boost to 30psi....no bueno...
I had to adjust the wastegate as it wasn't set properly from the beginning. I set the wastegate to 8psi using compressed air and a boost gauge. I double checked that by running wastegate pressure...ie..i ran the wastegate off of a vac line coming from the intake manifold. When I run the car that way it will NOT boost past 8-10psi, this tells me that the turbo and the wastegate are good. I have swapped to a brand new n75 as well as tried a few used n75's and it still overboost. I got tired of chasing the issue so I was advised to buy an overboost kit from BOOSTVALVE. It will control the overboost but the midrange low end boost is erratic. It jumps from 0-10psi in a flash or if your just trying to cruise around town the boost drops off with the blink of and eye...ie.. 15psi drops to zero for no apparent reason other than the MBC which is ball and spring type. I sent logs to Unitronic and they seem to think that everything is working properly. I feel that the problem lies in the fact that the n75 is not opening the wastegate all the way and the car is overboosting. Uni claims that the the n75 duty cycle is spot on and that it isn't the programing... At the same time they say "its like the cars computer is not seeing all of the boost", which to me says its a problem in the ecu which wasn't there prior.. I swapped to a different map sensor for sh_ts and giggles and it made no difference. I am looking to have the car re-flashed even though Uni doesn't think that is the problem. If any one has any input or ideas...bring it on. 
The car feels off the hook at WOT but sucks to drive around town. The boost is very solid and steady with out the MBC, it just wants to blow 30psi. I have even tried taking the n75 out but keep it plugged up and the boost is still erratic. Any help is appreciated. If anyone has experience with good and bad mbc and would like to point me in the direction of a good one, that would also be appreciated as If I cant get this resolved I am going to have to rely on one:banghead:. 
Thanks!!!!!:beer:


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## VDuBPL (May 10, 2006)

I had the same problem

What do u mean your running the wastegate off of a hose off the manifold? Y?

What u need to do is loosen the nuts going to the wastegate 

you know how ppl crank their waste gate? You need to uncrank yours, it fixed my problems.

pm me if u need some more explanation


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

VDuBPL said:


> I had the same problem
> 
> What do u mean your running the wastegate off of a hose off the manifold? Y?
> 
> ...


I get what you are saying. I was just running the wastegate off the manifold as a way of co signing that the wastegate was properly set to 8psi like frankenturbo suggest. If you set the wastegate and run it off manifold pressure that is a way that you can verify that the wastegate is set properly and functioning correctly. If you cant boost over 8-9psi running the wastegate off the manifold then you know your wastegate is set to 8psi(this is call running wastegate pressure). Im not running it like that full time I just included that so people would not telling me my WG was set to 20psi. I originally started trying to stop the overboost via wastegate adjustment and it seemed to make the turbo spool slowly. Does your turbo seem to spool quicky and what max boost are you seeing? 22-23 psi?
Thanks a lot!!


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## VDuBPL (May 10, 2006)

Im maxing at 24 psi which the stage 2+ is set for

I just ran the electronically unplugged the n75 to see if my wastegate was running probperly and that only boosted to about 10psi tops...

Im gonna be playing with my waste gate nuts a little to get a quicker response..fine tuning :laugh:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

VDuBPL said:


> Im maxing at 24 psi which the stage 2+ is set for
> 
> I just ran the electronically unplugged the n75 to see if my wastegate was running probperly and that only boosted to about 10psi tops...
> 
> Im gonna be playing with my waste gate nuts a little to get a quicker response..fine tuning :laugh:


Glad it is working out for you. I just adjusted the wastegate to dial out the overboost in the low gears and it is slow to spool and has boost creep in the high gears. So in 4-6 gears it will still climb up to 26++++++++++++++:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

What are you using to measure boost? Make sure you make 8 psi on a third or forth gear pull not a first or second gear pull. Also unless you have a built motor I wouldn't run more then 23 psi. I would recommend putting a mbc in line with the n75 to control boost spikes as that is what I did and have had no issues.

But the key is to make sure your waste gate is set at 8 psi and then go from there. 

I am running a F23 with a unitronic big turbo tune w/630cc injectors. I have a TT 225 quattro


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

Also with a mbc if your just using it in stand alone you will make boost to fast when just cruising when just applying a little throttle. Which in return the ecu will just close the throttle body causing lag and low boost. When I had a stage 2 unisettings I just added 2% fuel to my on load and primary to slow spool down so the ecu doesn't get pissed off. I did this via unisettings. But the best way to control boost is via the n75 with mbc in parallel. 

See diagram in this link http://209.128.70.155/ManBoostCtrl.jpg

The tune is fine the n75 and the mbc just need to be setup for your tune. Mike Z at unitronic is awesome when it comes to his tunes.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

WiKKiDTT said:


> Also with a mbc if your just using it in stand alone you will make boost to fast when just cruising when just applying a little throttle. Which in return the ecu will just close the throttle body causing lag and low boost. When I had a stage 2 unisettings I just added 2% fuel to my on load and primary to slow spool down so the ecu doesn't get pissed off. I did this via unisettings. But the best way to control boost is via the n75 with mbc in parallel.
> 
> See diagram in this link http://209.128.70.155/ManBoostCtrl.jpg
> 
> The tune is fine the n75 and the mbc just need to be setup for your tune. Mike Z at unitronic is awesome when it comes to his tunes.


I am running the mbc in parallel with the n75 which stops the overboost but sucks ass at the low to midrange and makes the boost erratic.. It is set up just like the diagram. I also can't hit more than 8psi in any gear when running wastegate pressure. I also didn't pay $650+ 200 shipping to have to go in and tune the damn ecu my selfself with unisettings. Forgive me If I sound pompous.... I will take your advice and appriciate your input greatly!:thumbup:, Were you having overboost problems from the get go as well?

edit: I'm, using a boost gauge, the map sensor and vag to measure boost. I set the wastegate up with a pressure guage and co-signed it by running waste gate pressure and I am not able to get past 9psi in any gear.. I am running a stock rods and I have been dealing with david at unitronic. According to doug at frankenturbo the F23 tuning is a little different F4 tuning. Thanks again for your input!!


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## GTIRACER2.0t (Aug 23, 2000)

You mentioned they said it was like the ecu isn't seeing all the boost. Do you have a diode mod on the map sensor? It's common to do that mod as it hides how much boost the car is running so it doesn't go in to limp mode. But the software eliminates the need for that I believe. Just a thought.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> I am running the mbc in parallel with the n75 which stops the overboost but sucks ass at the low to midrange and makes the boost erratic.. It is set up just like the diagram. I also can't hit more than 8psi in any gear when running wastegate pressure. I also didn't pay $650+ 200 shipping to have to go in and tune the damn ecu my selfself with unisettings. Forgive me If I sound pompous.... I will take your advice and appriciate your input greatly!:thumbup:, Were you having overboost problems from the get go as well?
> 
> edit: I'm, using a boost gauge, the map sensor and vag to measure boost. I set the wastegate up with a pressure guage and co-signed it by running waste gate pressure and I am not able to get past 9psi in any gear.. I am running a stock rods and I have been dealing with david at unitronic. According to doug at frankenturbo the F23 tuning is a little different F4 tuning. Thanks again for your input!!


mbc in parallel should'mt make it erratic...
I would try another n75

got any logs of 115 and 118 blocks?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

GTIRACER2.0t said:


> You mentioned they said it was like the ecu isn't seeing all the boost. Do you have a diode mod on the map sensor? It's common to do that mod as it hides how much boost the car is running so it doesn't go in to limp mode. But the software eliminates the need for that I believe. Just a thought.


I thought of that and when I got the car it was pretty mildly moded so I doubt it. Plus the ecu sees 21-22psi via the map sensor so I think that ruled out the diode in my mind.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> mbc in parallel should'mt make it erratic...
> I would try another n75
> 
> got any logs of 115 and 118 blocks?


I have tried 3 n75's one of which is brand new in the box:banghead:
I'm gonna pm you and send you the logs as I'm not familiar with posting them yet.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> I have tried 3 n75's one of which is brand new in the box:banghead:
> I'm gonna pm you and send you the logs as I'm not familiar with posting them yet.




```
Friday	22	July	2011	17:54:28:01910	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4	Data version: 20110418									
06A 906 032 ML		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0001													

	Group A:	'003				Group B:	'114				Group C:	'115			
		Engine Speed	Intake Air Mass	Throttle Drive	Ignition		Engine Load	Engine Load	Engine Load	Wastegate (N75)		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Boost Pressure	Boost Pressure
	TIME			Angle Sensor 1	Timing Angle	TIME	(specified)	(spec. corrected)	(actual Value)	Duty Cycle	TIME			(specified)	(actual)
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP	 %	 %	 %	 %	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	0.6	1000	14.83	54.1	-0.8	0.01	99.2	98.5	35.3	0	0.29	1040	52.6	1040	980
	1.5	1640	24.78	22	1.5	0.9	97.7	97	77.4	33.3	1.21	1400	79.7	1090	1020
	2.41	2520	40.44	21.2	17.3	1.81	148.1	146.3	78.9	38	2.11	2240	89.5	1280	1130
	3.32	3520	89.28	47.8	20.3	2.71	191.7	186.6	75.2	46.7	3.02	3160	96.2	1420	1280
	4.22	5160	87.58	25.9	24.8	3.62	191.7	192.5	154.1	46.3	3.92	4720	158.6	1480	1980
	5.13	3840	87.28	82.7	21.8	4.54	191.7	197	11.3	0	4.83	4520	11.3	980	1200
	6.03	4400	187.69	100	6.8	5.43	191.7	194	143.6	73.7	5.73	4040	188.7	2550	2260
	6.94	4120	78	43.1	31.5	6.34	191.7	197	96.2	0	6.64	4440	9.8	980	1470
	7.84	3720	168.31	100	5.3	7.24	191.7	197	127.8	73.3	7.54	3560	174.4	2550	1950
	8.75	4360	198.11	100	4.5	8.15	191.7	194	190.2	74.1	8.45	4160	191.7	2550	2540
	9.65	4240	25	16.1	37.5	9.06	191.7	197	64.7	0	9.35	4640	10.5	980	1440
	10.56	3720	159	100	5.3	9.96	191.7	197	117.3	73.3	10.26	3600	158.6	2550	1810
	11.47	4240	0	2.4	-0.8	10.86	191.7	195.5	191.7	73.7	11.16	3960	191	2550	2540
	12.37	3280	70.81	64.3	20.3	11.77	191.7	195.5	10.5	0	12.07	3560	12	980	1190
	13.28	3400	129.39	100	4.5	12.67	191.7	195.5	114.3	73.3	12.97	3320	140.6	2550	1650
	14.18	3600	157.61	100	4.5	13.58	191.7	197	191.7	72.9	13.88	3560	191.7	2550	2540
	15.09	3800	1.94	11.4	-7.5	14.48	191.7	197	191.7	73.7	14.78	3800	191.7	2550	2540
	15.99	3000	17.22	2.7	1.5	15.39	191.7	197	10.5	0	15.69	3280	11.3	980	1210
	16.9	3160	58.25	74.1	15	16.29	191.7	191	12	0	16.6	3120	27.1	980	1030
	17.8	3200	85.11	97.6	15	17.2	191.7	192.5	75.9	0	17.5	3200	106.8	2550	1200
	18.71	3320	135.31	100	0	18.1	191.7	192.5	156.4	73.3	18.4	3280	188	2550	2270
	19.61	3480	147.22	100	1.5	19.01	191.7	195.5	191	73.3	19.31	3440	191.7	2550	2540
2	20.52	3600	157.61	100	2.3	19.91	191.7	197	191.7	73.3	20.22	3560	191.7	2550	2540
	21.42	3640	8.08	2.7	12	20.82	191.7	197	191.7	73.3	21.12	3680	191.7	2550	2540
	22.33	3600	12.08	3.9	2.3	21.72	191.7	195.5	9.8	0	22.03	3640	11.3	980	1170
	89.41	2360	27.56	15.7	20.3	89.71	191.7	186.6	61.7	35.7	89.12	2160	60.9	1000	1020
	90.32	3120	42.08	20.4	25.5	90.62	191.7	192.5	69.9	47.1	90.02	2880	66.2	1180	1090
	91.22	4040	75.83	25.5	24.8	91.52	191.7	197	146.6	51.8	90.92	3680	79.7	1300	1260
	92.13	6000	221.92	100	11.3	92.43	191	189.6	37.6	0	91.83	5320	172.9	2160	2080
	93.03	4360	111.06	79.6	14.3	93.33	191.7	197	167.7	76.1	92.73	5400	10.5	980	1430
	93.95	5200	218.67	100	9	94.26	191.7	195.5	147.4	0	93.64	4760	191.7	2550	2540
	94.85	4760	95.56	51	24	95.15	191.7	194	147.4	74.5	94.55	5360	11.3	980	1690
	95.75	4360	190.53	100	2.3	96.05	191.7	197	191.7	81.2	95.45	4200	191	2550	2460
	96.65	4560	13.33	3.1	4.5	96.96	191.7	195.5	116.5	73.7	96.36	5000	19.5	980	1980
	97.56	3880	169.31	100	0.8	97.86	191.7	192.5	189.5	74.1	97.26	3760	159.4	2550	1830
	98.46	4200	197.67	63.9	-8.3	98.77	191.7	197	12	0	98.16	4120	191	2550	2540
	99.37	3760	10.39	3.5	2.3	99.67	191.7	195.5	14.3	0	99.07	4160	11.3	980	1280
	100.28	3400	8.58	3.5	34.5	100.58	191.7	195.5	11.3	0	99.97	3400	31.6	980	1060
```
and the other


```
Friday	22	July	2011	17:57:17:01910	VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4	Data version: 20110418							
06A 906 032 ML		1.8L R4/5VT     G   0001											
													
	Group A:	'003				Group B:	'020				Group C:	'031	
		Engine Speed	Intake Air Mass	Throttle Drive	Ignition		Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization	Idle Stabilization		Lambda Factor	Lambda Factor
	TIME			Angle Sensor 1	Timing Angle	TIME					TIME		
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP	°KW	°KW	°KW	°KW	STAMP		
	0.01	720	3.44	0.8	0	0.3	0	0	0	0	0.61	1.031	1
	0.9	1240	18.64	54.9	3.8	1.21	0	0	0	0	1.51	1.062	1
	1.81	2080	38.03	98.4	12	2.11	0	0	0	0	2.41	0.883	1
	2.71	2200	36.86	17.6	5.3	3.02	0	0	0	0	3.32	1.008	1
	3.62	2960	46.69	21.2	22.5	3.92	1.5	3	3	6.8	4.22	0.86	1
	4.52	4440	152.64	100	2.3	4.83	1.5	6	3	9	5.13	0.852	0.899
	5.44	5560	13.31	3.1	11.3	5.73	0	0	0	0	6.03	0.766	0.844
	6.33	4240	182.94	100	3	6.64	0.8	6	3	9	6.94	0.821	0.828
	7.24	5240	49.06	2.7	7.5	7.55	0	0	0	0	7.84	0.797	0.844
	8.15	3800	158.72	99.2	-1.5	8.45	1.5	6	2.3	9	8.75	0.899	0.836
	9.05	4360	0	9	-7.5	9.35	0	0	0	0	9.65	0.766	0.992
	9.96	3440	112.14	96.1	4.5	10.26	1.5	6	3.8	8.3	10.56	0.914	0.844
	10.86	3760	167.44	100	2.3	11.16	4.5	4.5	3.8	8.3	11.46	0.797	0.945
	11.77	4760	25.19	3.1	9.8	12.07	0	0	0	0	12.37	0.852	0.875
	12.67	3280	98.36	97.6	9	12.97	0	0	0	0	13.27	0.867	0.844
	13.58	3480	147.06	100	6	13.88	0	3	3	6	14.18	0.852	0.844
	14.48	3840	0	1.6	2.3	14.78	0	0	0	0	15.09	1	1.047
	15.39	2960	18.72	2.7	0.8	15.69	0	0	0	0	15.99	1.991	1.047
	52.5	3360	47.42	22	25.5	51.91	0	0	0	0	52.2	1.016	1
	53.41	4560	154.89	97.6	9	52.8	0	0	0	0	53.1	0.899	1
	54.31	5320	34.28	3.9	9	53.71	0.8	5.3	4.5	8.3	54.01	0.969	1
	55.22	4000	146.39	99.2	9	54.61	0	0	0	0	54.91	0.875	0.867
	56.12	5120	0	3.5	3.8	55.52	0	0	0	0	55.82	0.844	0.828
	57.03	3560	134.78	97.6	0	56.42	0	0	0	0	56.72	0.789	0.953
	57.93	3920	16.44	14.9	-9	57.33	1.5	6	5.3	9	57.63	0.891	0.844
	58.84	3120	69.92	89	10.5	58.23	0	0	0	0	58.53	0.922	1
	59.74	3320	136.33	100	3.8	59.14	3	2.3	4.5	5.3	59.44	0.883	0.844
	60.65	3840	6.06	2	1.5	60.04	2.3	2.3	3	5.3	60.34	0.867	0.844
	61.55	2880	62.58	94.1	14.3	60.95	0	0	0	0	61.25	1.039	1
	62.46	3000	105.89	100	5.3	61.85	0	0	0	0	62.16	0.891	0.883
	63.36	3160	130.03	100	5.3	62.76	0	0	0	0	63.06	0.875	0.844
	64.27	3160	11.06	0.8	3.8	63.66	0	3	3	3	63.97	0.836	0.844
	65.17	2720	12.06	7.1	27.8	64.57	0	0	0	0	64.87	1	1.047
	66.08	2680	24	12.5	27	65.47	0	0	0	0	65.78	0.906	1
```


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

i think i know what your problem is.

when i 1st installed my MBC i did it the way that diagram shows.

however, it didnt work.

so what i did was, instead of running it inline with the n75.

keep the N75 in your intake boot. and ectrical hooked up.
take off the 2 vac lines come from the 2 smaller nipples on the n75.
hook up the MBC into these 2 lines. and cap off the 2 ends of the n75.


once i did this, my mbc worked just as advertised.

hope this helps, good luck.:thumbup::beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^^^^^^^^^^Thanks Badger!!!!:beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> i think i know what your problem is.
> 
> when i 1st installed my MBC i did it the way that diagram shows.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input. I basically tried that. I took the n75 out of tip and set it to the side plugged up. I put a bolt in the hole in the tip and tightened the clamp. I then took the two lines that were going to the n75 and ran them to the MBC. This is essentially what you did is it not? Do you see any reason my way wouldn't work properly? Either way it does stop the over boost but makes the low end boost erratic...

edit: plus I see you are running a turboxs mbc, I was going to get one of those or a hallman but doug at frankenturbo suggested the boost valve. i think it sucks...I know its low tech and a ball and spring type but I'm wondering if I just need to get a better mbc...


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> Thanks for your input. I basically tried that. I took the n75 out of tip and set it to the side plugged up. I put a bolt in the hole in the tip and tightened the clamp. I then took the two lines that were going to the n75 and ran them to the MBC. This is essentially what you did is it not? Do you see any reason my way wouldn't work properly? Either way it does stop the over boost but makes the low end boost erratic...
> 
> edit: plus I see you are running a turboxs mbc, I was going to get one of those or a hallman but doug at frankenturbo suggested the boost valve. i think it sucks...I know its low tech and a ball and spring type but I'm wondering if I just need to get a better mbc...


its close to what i did.
take the bolt out, and plug the n75 back into the intake boot.
keep everything else the same.
lmk what you get.

im no expert on MBCs. i just saw a few BT guys using the TurboXS mbc so i went with it.
i like mine. its nice and shiny. and has a nice weight in my hand.:laugh:

also, i hav some erratic boost spike every now and again. but then again im running a stock tune.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I am also by passing the n249 but have it plugged up...to me this should simplify the system.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

The stock map sensor is only good to 22-23 psi that's all it will read so when you get a reading from the ecu if it is showing more then that then it is using the maf to try to guesstimatete what boost level you have. I ran into a similar issue when I tried to tune my car via my liquidtt gauge. It showed 23psi and I was getting 29 psi. 

You could also have a bad maf sensor.

What plugs are you running and when did you install them. 

When is the last time you cleaned the iat sensor.

I have bypassed my n249 as well so the only thing the ecu can do to protect your engine is close the throttle body and that's what it is doing.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> I am also by passing the n249 but have it plugged up...to me this should simplify the system.


silly question Alert!

the mbc is plumbed the right way round yea? boost acting on the ball on behind it?
unwind it to lowest setting and you should get actuator pressure... then work your way up..

if direct connecting actuator to boost feed is actuator pressure only with no creep, then mbc on softest setting should do the same.... and then work up progressively doing it up to the desired boost.

N75 in parallel once mbc has its boost max level determined should drive a lot better then.

ref the logs.. once you tame its high boost, try to do a 3rd and 4th gear run logging 115,118 blocks.. to compare what uni's software is asking for and whats being applied to the n75 duty cycle.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> silly question Alert!
> 
> the mbc is plumbed the right way round yea? boost acting on the ball on behind it?
> unwind it to lowest setting and you should get actuator pressure... then work your way up..
> ...


I don't understand the silly question alert??
The mbc is hooked up properly and stops the over boost but has erratic low end boost.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

WiKKiDTT said:


> The stock map sensor is only good to 22-23 psi that's all it will read so when you get a reading from the ecu if it is showing more then that then it is using the maf to try to guesstimatete what boost level you have. I ran into a similar issue when I tried to tune my car via my liquidtt gauge. It showed 23psi and I was getting 29 psi.
> 
> You could also have a bad maf sensor.
> 
> ...


How would bad maf cause overboost?
I am running the the colder plugs gapped to .28. They are brand new I put them in yesterday...
Cleaned the IAT sensor a week ago.
My throttle body only jammed shut once and that was at 10psi due to the mbc being erratic at the low end. Nothing happens on the top end, I have to take my foot off the gas.


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## rosasjonathan (Jul 3, 2011)

i used to have this same issue using GIAC tuning. I hated it! was running an xspower mbc at the time as well, using a t3/t4 .50 trim, tial 38mm wastegate with an 8 pound spring. I remember I would boost and my wastegate would not OPEN, I would boost and it would keep on building and building, my boost gauge would just climb up and the arrow would hit max (30 psi) and im sure it was building more and past the 30 psi my gauge read. I switched to unitronics 630cc reflash, changed my wastegate spring to a 12 pound spring and the biggest change was I got rid of the crappy xspower mbc and went greddy profec b electronic boost controller. problem solved. btw I think your problem has a lot to do with you relying on that n75, get rid of it man, you should be good just using the wastegate and an electronic boost controller, or if you cant afford it, wastegate and MBC. Why do you guys still use the n75 if your not using a stock turbo?


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> I don't understand the silly question alert??
> The mbc is hooked up properly and stops the over boost but has erratic low end boost.


hmmm. this on mbc alone?


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

rosasjonathan said:


> Why do you guys still use the n75 if your not using a stock turbo?


because it can work very well when tuned accordingly.
N75 on my 600bhp racecar.. 2.5bar if I want it.. I just tell it to do stuff and it does.
(cheating however as I run S60 DTA Standalone ecu...) N75 is just a valve at the end of the day. The control is in the ecu/software


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> hmmm. this on mbc alone?


I may have caught a break with the mbc, it's too soon to say. I need to let traffic die down and take it for a spin and see what happens. I finally got ahold of the boost valve owner and he suggested trying to loosen my wastegate rod a little. He thinks that if its clamped a little tight that the pressure may be having a hard time opening the flapper and then finally it lets go and opens wide up. Which would sort of explain the drop from 15psi to 0 in a flash. I was a little doubtful at first because the WG opens fine when running wastegate pressure or when the MBC is out of the equation. I could see that if the waste gate was really clamped but its not. It opens at 8 and won't boost past 8. Frankenturbo recommends 8psi if running software and 5psi if running stock tune.
Anyway.. I slacked of on the rod a few turns and it seems to be a little better. It was hard to really test it on the way home from the shop since its interstate and then traffic on back roads. I really hope this works as this will be the break I am looking for!! As long as the wastegate is shut off boost and the spool is quick then I'm a happy camper!!I'm gonna test it in a few and I'll report back.
Thanks to everyone for the input and help!!! That is what makes the dub family better then any other!!:thumbup::beer:


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## VDuBPL (May 10, 2006)

Im running with no mbc and the wastegate rod adjusted just right, I am spiking at 24 and holding at 23 and down to 20 at redline, boost comes on not to slow nor too quick.

I dont know if you really need the mbc


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

VDuBPL said:


> Im running with no mbc and the wastegate rod adjusted just right, I am spiking at 24 and holding at 23 and down to 20 at redline, boost comes on not to slow nor too quick.
> 
> I dont know if you really need the mbc


I guess you missed the part where I am pegging 30psi without the mbc. The wastegate rod is set to 8psi just as frankenturbo suggest and I over boost to 30psi. It is not possible to adjust the overboost out via the WG. If you loosen the waste gate so the turbo hits about 22psi it is slow to spool and it still creeps to 30psi in the top gears. I wish i didn't need a MBC!!!


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

K04s are notorious for overboosting.... its the nature of the beast.

1) make sure the line going from you wastegate to n75 doent have any tears ( this will cause overboosting)
2) screw the wastegate adjustment screw up. ( this should lower the spikes )
3) make sure you are using the stock n75F (unitronic is made for the n75F)
4) if all else fails... get a ball and spring type boost controller like the boostvalve from boostvalve.com and run it in parallel aka the overboost solution. Adjust it to where you want the spike 24psi is where i have mine set.

http://www.boostvalve.com/1.8info.html


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> I may have caught a break with the mbc, it's too soon to say. I need to let traffic die down and take it for a spin and see what happens. I finally got ahold of the boost valve owner and he suggested trying to loosen my wastegate rod a little. He thinks that if its clamped a little tight that the pressure may be having a hard time opening the flapper and then finally it lets go and opens wide up. Which would sort of explain the drop from 15psi to 0 in a flash. I was a little doubtful at first because the WG opens fine when running wastegate pressure or when the MBC is out of the equation. I could see that if the waste gate was really clamped but its not. It opens at 8 and won't boost past 8. Frankenturbo recommends 8psi if running software and 5psi if running stock tune.
> Anyway.. I slacked of on the rod a few turns and it seems to be a little better. It was hard to really test it on the way home from the shop since its interstate and then traffic on back roads. I really hope this works as this will be the break I am looking for!! As long as the wastegate is shut off boost and the spool is quick then I'm a happy camper!!I'm gonna test it in a few and I'll report back.
> Thanks to everyone for the input and help!!! That is what makes the dub family better then any other!!:thumbup::beer:


To me the requested boost is "all of it" from the outset, and although duty cycle looks low, the extra psi of the FT wastegate over stock could account for this large overshoot.

Looks like software is not dialed in to this setup.. Why the 2550 max request from the get go? Thats just asking for overshoot.


```
Group A:	'003				Group B:	'114				Group C:	'115			
		Engine Speed	Intake Air Mass	Throttle Drive	Ignition		Engine Load	Engine Load	Engine Load	Wastegate (N75)		Engine Speed	Engine Load	Boost Pressure	Boost Pressure
	TIME			Angle Sensor 1	Timing Angle	TIME	(specified)	(spec. corrected)	(actual Value)	Duty Cycle	TIME			(specified)	(actual)
Marker	STAMP	 /min	 g/s	 %	 °BTDC	STAMP	 %	 %	 %	 %	STAMP	 /min	 %	 mbar	 mbar
	0.02	2520	9.72	3.9	0	0.3	191.7	186.6	24.8	0	0.6	3120	90.2	2150	1050
	0.91	2920	65.5	100	14.3	1.21	191.7	189.6	122.6	73.3	1.51	3160	148.1	2550	1750
	1.81	3360	125.69	100	7.5	2.11	191.7	195.5	191.7	68.2	2.41	3760	191.7	2550	2420
	2.71	3920	146.44	100	5.3	3.02	191.7	194	190.2	72.9	3.32	4280	191.7	2550	2440
	3.62	4480	167.81	100	6.8	3.92	191.7	195.5	191.7	78.4	4.22	4840	191.7	2540	2490
	4.52	5040	194.94	100	9	4.83	191.7	194	191.7	90.6	5.13	5400	191.7	2510	2500
	5.43	5600	209.92	100	9.8	5.73	191.7	191	191.7	95.7	6.03	5920	189.5	2450	2410
	6.34	6080	217.39	100	8.3	6.64	187.2	183.6	185.7	95.7	6.94	6320	180.5	2440	2390
	7.24	6480	218.94	100	8.3	7.55	182.7	179.1	173.7	95.7	7.85	6720	172.2	1910	2350
	8.15	6640	26.22	3.5	18	8.46	188	185.1	39.8	95.7	8.75	5280	139.8	2510	1750
	9.05	5400	211.25	100	9.8	9.35	191.7	194	191.7	95.7	9.65	5600	191.7	2520	2510
	9.96	5680	209.56	100	6.8	10.27	191.7	189.6	191.7	95.7	10.56	5840	189.5	2490	2480
	10.86	5920	211.92	100	6.8	11.16	190.2	186.6	188.7	95.7	11.46	6080	185.7	2470	2450
	11.78	6120	219.11	100	4.5	12.07	187.2	183.6	184.2	95.7	12.37	6240	182.7	2460	2430
	12.67	6320	217.22	100	4.5	12.97	185	179.1	181.2	95.7	13.29	6440	178.9	2430	2430
	13.58	6440	218.08	100	1.5	13.89	182.7	174.6	177.4	95.7	14.19	6560	174.4	2420	2420
	14.48	6600	219.39	74.5	5.3	14.78	182.7	171.6	9	0	15.09	5960	12	980	1250
	15.39	5080	14.39	5.5	6	15.69	191.7	186.6	12	0	15.99	5160	12	980	1070
```


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> To me the requested boost is "all of it" from the outset, and although duty cycle looks low, the extra psi of the FT wastegate over stock could account for this large overshoot.
> 
> Looks like software is not dialed in to this setup.. Why the 2550 max request from the get go? Thats just asking for overshoot.
> 
> ...




Thanks again Badger!!!! These are my thoughts exactly. Its basically requesting more boost then the map can see from the very beginning. On a hybrid your just asking for over boost. Sad part is that this tuning is supposed to be specifically for this turbo. I feel like the fact that it is requesting more boost then the map can read will just keep the car wanting build boost to try and fulfill the request so to speak. Loosening the wastegate to about 4psi with the mbc seems to make the car a little more drivable. Thanks again Badger and to everyone else for their input!!!!!:beer:


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

Get a ball and spring type boost controller. Run it the overboost/ parallel setup and voila problem solved.

Back in the day... 3 years ago... i saw guys having these problems with K03s on Giacs's x++ tune.

the solution is there. Go implement it and enjoy your frankenturbo :beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

checkdalevel said:


> Get a ball and spring type boost controller. Run it the overboost/ parallel setup and voila problem solved.
> 
> Back in the day... 3 years ago... i saw guys having these problems with K03s on Giacs's x++ tune.
> 
> the solution is there. Go implement it and enjoy your frankenturbo :beer:


No offense but read before you post and you will see I have Boost valve and I am still experiencing some low end problem when the mbc is installed.:beer:

edit: yes its hooked up right and yes and yes and yes...
edit: and yes I know I must have something hooked up wrong....


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

badger5 said:


> Why the 2550 max request from the get go? Thats just asking for overshoot.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


Maybe a 2550mbar *request* is asking for too much; but then again, the log here shows actual pressure to be under control. At no point is the sensor getting soaked, so maximum boost pressure never exceeds ~22.5psi. I wonder if the OP's in-car gauge is crying wolf a bit.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

Twopnt016v said:


> No offense but read before you post and you will see I have Boost valve and I am still experiencing some low end problem when the mbc is installed.:beer:
> 
> edit: yes its hooked up right and yes and yes and yes...
> edit: and yes I know I must have something hooked up wrong....



My bad for not reading your previous messages thoroughly. I was just trying to reiterate what to do and check.

good luck with sourcing your issue. :beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Maybe a 2550mbar *request* is asking for too much; but then again, the log here shows actual pressure to be under control. At no point is the sensor getting soaked, so maximum boost pressure never exceeds ~22.5psi. I wonder if the OP's in-car gauge is crying wolf a bit.


Come on doug...I've swapped to another brand new new south boost gauge and it reads the exact same. A boost gauge is about as low tech as it gets...I trust the boost guage. Keep in mind this is with the MBC. Im not saying that the guage may not be off but 2psi at most, most people think it shouldnt be more that .5psi off. This is exactly what you have been saying from the start " I don't think you are seeing the boost you think you are...a new boost gauge is in order". You were saying that when I had no mbc and was hitting 30psi. Multiple boost guages are not off be 8psi. The map may be a 23psi sensor but it is not reading more then 22.5 psi ever. On this log I know I hit 24psi...lets say the gauge is off 2 psi. All of that is out the window when I take the mbc out and hit 30psi and the map never reads past 22.5. I am not saying the tuning may not do a descent job of controlling the boost somewhat but it sure as hell doesn't do anything to control the over boost to 30psi. The mbc is what is stopping the over boost. With no mbc I will hit 30psi by 4k. You have said it yourself...the map gets flooded and doesnt read past 22psi, maybe 22.5. So the request of 2550 is never really going to be met, the closest it comes is 2500. So I think its about time to face facts and stop trying to pass the buck to the boost gauge being off. I am not trying blame you or the turbo, the turbo works great but I think you need to tread lightly when you have a customer that says the car is hitting 30psi (with stock rods)and you try to tell them you don't think they are really seeing that amount of boost and that the gauge is off. If I was some dumba_s kid who just said..oh my boost guage is just off by 8psi and went on driving the car like that bad things would happen.:beer:

edit: also look at the top log Doug and you will see that the max actual boost is 2540. That is on a log with no mbc where the boost was hitting 30psi. So the map is never going to read more then 2540 in my opinion.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> Come on doug...I've swapped to another brand new new south boost gauge and it reads the exact same. A boost gauge is about as low tech as it gets...I trust the boost guage. Keep in mind this is with the MBC. Im not saying that the guage may not be off but 2psi at most, most people think it shouldnt be more that .5psi off. This is exactly what you have been saying from the start " I don't think you are seeing the boost you think you are...a new boost gauge is in order". You were saying that when I had no mbc and was hitting 30psi. Multiple boost guages are not off be 8psi. The map may be a 23psi sensor but it is not reading more then 22.5 psi ever. On this log I know I hit 25psi...lets say the gauge is off 2 psi. All of that is out the window when I take the mbc out and hit 30psi and the map never reads past 22.5. I am not saying the tuning may not do a descent job of controlling the boost somewhat but it sure as hell doesn't do anything to control the over boost to 30psi. The mbc is what is stopping the over boost. With no mbc I will hit 30psi by 4k. You have said it yourself...the map gets flooded and doesnt read past 22psi, maybe 22.5. So the request of 2550 is never really going to be met, the closest it comes is 2500. So I think its about time to face facts and stop trying to pass the buck to the boost gauge being off. I am not trying blame you or the turbo, the turbo works great but I think you need to tread lightly when you have a customer that says the car is hitting 30psi (with stock rods)and you try to tell them you don't think they are really seeing that amount of boost and that the gauge is off. If I was some dumba_s kid who just said..oh my boost guage is just off by 8psi and went on driving the car like that bad things would happen.:beer:


The turbo is a hybrid.. and the logs of the uni tune to me look wrong for this. Too much request. Thats not the fault of the turbo but the fault in the tune not matching it. Turn your load scale down to 85% and try again on 75 alone (carefully) - It might help this silly high spike. MBC is a pressure relief valve in its current use, but to tame the tune, I would turn its load scale down and see how it copes.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> The turbo is a hybrid.. and the logs of the uni tune to me look wrong for this. Too much request. Thats not the fault of the turbo but the fault in the tune not matching it. Turn your load scale down to 85% and try again on 75 alone (carefully) - It might help this silly high spike. MBC is a pressure relief valve in its current use, but to tame the tune, I would turn its load scale down and see how it copes.


I fully agree with you Badger. I am assuming that I can turn the load scale down with Unisettings? I will try that later when I get off work. Is Uniseting pretty straight forward? If it's not straight forward and someone wants to chime in with what needs to be done I would really appreciate it as I've never used unisettings.:beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

checkdalevel said:


> My bad for not reading your previous messages thoroughly. I was just trying to reiterate what to do and check.
> 
> good luck with sourcing your issue. :beer:


Hey no problem man. Thanks for trying to help, that would be great advice for someone!:thumbup::beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Twopnt016v said:


> I think its about time to face facts and stop trying to pass the buck to the boost gauge being off.... I think you need to tread lightly when you have a customer that says the car is hitting 30psi (with stock rods)and you try to tell them you don't think they are really seeing that amount of boost and that the gauge is off. If I was some dumba_s kid who just said..oh my boost guage is just off by 8psi and went on driving the car like that bad things would happen.


Well, ok. But for now, the facts are that you have an unexplained discrepancy in readings between MAP sensor and the in-cabin gauge. You need to troubleshoot this so the differing data is reconciled. If you are confident the gauge is accurate, it sounds to me like you need to direct attention to the MAP sensor. If the sensor is faulty, then your issue was never the software nor the turbo.


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Well, ok. But for now, the facts are that you have an unexplained discrepancy in readings between MAP sensor and the in-cabin gauge. You need to troubleshoot this so the differing data is reconciled. If you are confident the gauge is accurate, it sounds to me like you need to direct attention to the MAP sensor. If the sensor is faulty, then your issue was never the software nor the turbo.


Doug is here to help but let's piss in his coffee because you don't want to take the time in listen!

You need to put your guard down and listen. people here are trying to help but your responses to people are not the type that make people wanting to help you. 

You need to fix the problem not cover the problem up. with messing with your load settings. 

Doug is here trying to help his customer but who wants to help a client who is being ignorant back.

Just think about it who wants to help someone who asked for help but in return gets **** thrown in there face. 

For the little money Doug makes on his turbo's I don't think he needs the rude coment's


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

Yeh his response to me was kinda of D!CK.

I guess that's just the nature of the original OP.

Did you try replace the vacuum line that goes from the wastegate to the N75?

Mine had a tear and the N75 couldnt control the boost regardless of how much i fiddled with the boostvavle.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

the mbc should have no effect on low end boost as its set for high end boost controll. having your mbc set to open the wg at 19-20 will do just that. then your n75 will take its place and controll the psi curve from there. 

my Friend and Myself both have to run MBC setups and are using the hallman pro. without it our boost goes beyond 30 psi. we have ours run parralell using y fittings. hes set at 20 psi and im set at 19 an no low end issues. 


i tried saying something earlier about the wastegate needing to be set at a specific psi in order for it to correctly work with the n75 but was told that was not the case. if i remember correctly it was 5 psi, if all else fails try 5 psi wg pressure with your mbc in parallel. crank your mbc so that it wont actuate and see where you sit then. it should follow the same curve that your tune is asking for. if not let us know and we can go from there.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Well, ok. But for now, the facts are that you have an unexplained discrepancy in readings between MAP sensor and the in-cabin gauge. You need to troubleshoot this so the differing data is reconciled. If you are confident the gauge is accurate, it sounds to me like you need to direct attention to the MAP sensor. If the sensor is faulty, then your issue was never the software nor the turbo.



I'm not sure that there is a discrepancy between the map and the gauge. The MAP will not read 30psi so I would never expect to see the logs say 30psi. I think they are in tune until the I exceed what the map is capable of reading. I have also swapped to a new MAP sensor in the very beginning and have also checked the wiring from map to control unit. I have also tried a different maf, n75, put new plugs in and checked all lines and I also have the n249 bypassed but plugged up. As I have said before I do not think the turbo is at fault. I think the turbo is great and I am happy with my purchase. I feel there is a software error, I have other people who agree with me in saying the software seem to have a few issues. I appreciate your help and input. If Uni thinks everything is great but at the same time they feel like the ecu isn't seeing the boost to adjust the duty cycle of the n75 then to me this also says tuning. I deal with programming control units all the time at work and I know that things like this can occur and programming can fail. Or everything else can be perfect except for small glitches like this one. Most of the time reprogramming can solve these issues. You know that my control unit was giving them problems and it had to be sent from the 1st place I sent it to Canada. I am just saying that is worth them looking into and it is worth a reflash IMO. I am still waiting to hear back from them. Its been a few days...







WiKKiDTT said:


> Doug is here to help but let's piss in his coffee because you don't want to take the time in listen!
> 
> You need to put your guard down and listen. people here are trying to help but your responses to people are not the type that make people wanting to help you.
> 
> ...





checkdalevel said:


> Yeh his response to me was kinda of D!CK.
> 
> I guess that's just the nature of the original OP.
> 
> ...



You have no Idea what your talking about. I have talked plenty with Doug and listened to 
everything he has said. Im not the least bit ignorant. I came to vortex to get input from others(but I do appreciate Doug's). The thing that bothers me is when people don't read the post and 
then they comment. Just like when you told me to get a boost valve and gave the website. You 
were trying to be helpful but you obviously didn't read my post because you would have know I have that same valve installed correctly and am having issues on the low end. I think it would keep everything simpler if people read before they post. It does get to be a time waster to try and re explain everything to everyone who tries to offer you help without reading. I'm sure everyone can feel me on that one. I thought I was being cool too in saying thanks I appreciate the help. I also think that if people are going to offer help they should listen to you and pay attention so they don't keep offering redundant information. You guys can think my response was d!ck all you want but you don't know the dialog between Doug and I.

@Checkdalevel...I have swapped to new n75 as well as tried others. I have checked the lines going to and from the N75. I have used brand new hose both ways to rule out any tears that can not be seen. The system is tight with no leaks. Thanks again for your input.:beer:

@Wikkidtt...I agree with you 100% that I should not try and cover the problem up. I deal with problems like this all day long and it would be un exceptable for me to try and mask the problem or throw parts at it. There is a proper way to go about diagnosing things like this and I have been doing so. I was instructed to just put a MBC on it and move on. I got one just so I could try and drive the car. I am not one to jump to conclusions and start finger pointing, proper diagnosis cant lead you to a conclusion which in my case I think there is a software error. If I were at fault for something I would also be the first to man up and admit it. I want people to be able to look at these post and learn something from them vs seeing fighting. I understand that the frankenturbo and the tuning are in the "developmental stages" so to speak and people are searching about this type of thing. I don't want anyone to go down the wrong path or be deterred from buying a good product. :beer:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> the mbc should have no effect on low end boost as its set for high end boost controll. having your mbc set to open the wg at 19-20 will do just that. then your n75 will take its place and controll the psi curve from there.
> 
> my Friend and Myself both have to run MBC setups and are using the hallman pro. without it our boost goes beyond 30 psi. we have ours run parralell using y fittings. hes set at 20 psi and im set at 19 an no low end issues.
> 
> ...



Your right the mbc should have no effect down low but it does. Take the mbc out and the low end problems go away. You are also right in what you were trying to say about the Wg needing to be set to a specific pressure for the mbc to work right with the n75. It shouldn't be in theory but that is not always the case. Doug recommends 8psi for cars with software and 5psi for stock tuning. I know for a fact that my wg was set to 8psi and that way I had the low end issues. I finally got up with the nice gentleman at boost valve and we discussed lowering pressure because it may be having a hard time opening and then finally it pops open and that is where the erratic boost may be coming from. I was a little skeptical at first because if I run manifold pressure to the wastegate it opens fine, everything is smooth and I can't boost over 8psi. I adjusted my WG to 4-5psi and it seemed to have solved a lot of the low end problems. Its not perfect but it may be able to be dialed in a little more. So your right....:thumbup: Thanks for the input!:beer:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Twopnt016v said:


> Your right the mbc should have no effect down low but it does. Take the mbc out and the low end problems go away. You are also right in what you were trying to say about the Wg needing to be set to a specific pressure for the mbc to work right with the n75. It shouldn't be in theory but that is not always the case. Doug recommends 8psi for cars with software and 5psi for stock tuning. I know for a fact that my wg was set to 8psi and that way I had the low end issues. I finally got up with the nice gentleman at boost valve and we discussed lowering pressure because it may be having a hard time opening and then finally it pops open and that is where the erratic boost may be coming from. I was a little skeptical at first because if I run manifold pressure to the wastegate it opens fine, everything is smooth and I can't boost over 8psi. I adjusted my WG to 4-5psi and it seemed to have solved a lot of the low end problems. Its not perfect but it may be able to be dialed in a little more. So your right....:thumbup: Thanks for the input!:beer:


you should be able to take your mbc out now. your n75 should have full controll over your boost curve and you should not go beyond what is requested.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> you should be able to take your mbc out now. your n75 should have full controll over your boost curve and you should not go beyond what is requested.


I wish...If I take the mbc out I will get boost creep and it will still go to 30psi. For sh_ts and giggles I will give it a try again but I have already tried to adjust the over boost out with the WG and i can initially stop the overboost but when it should be tapering off it keeps climbing to 30psi. i adjusted the wastegate to where the turbo is slow to spool and it still has boost creep in the top end.
This is about the only recipe that I have going right now that is working all around. Anyhow..I would like to get the car where I can remove the MBC at some point since the tuning was supposed to control over boost and no MBC was supposed to be needed....


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Twopnt016v said:


> I wish...If I take the mbc out I will get boost creep and it will still go to 30psi. For sh_ts and giggles I will give it a try again but I have already tried to adjust the over boost out with the WG and i can initially stop the overboost but when it should be tapering off it keeps climbing to 30psi. i adjusted the wastegate to where the turbo is slow to spool and it still has boost creep in the top end.
> This is about the only recipe that I have going right now that is working all around. Anyhow..I would like to get the car where I can remove the MBC at some point since the tuning was supposed to control over boost and no MBC was supposed to be needed....


I know how u feel man. I have it in as I don't want to mess with my wg. I have issues of going into soft limp once in a while but that's it.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

I'm sure you already know all this stuff, but I may as well reiterate it for you.

As already stated, the MBC should have ZERO effect on boost levels below that which it is set. That mean it should have ZERO effect on partial throttle boost control. When run in parallel, all it is, is a bypass around the n75 when boost levels exceed a certain threshold, thus directing pressure around the N75 and to the wastegate actuator. I guess there is always a possiblity that that MBC could be messed up, but I highly doubt it. 

FWIW, I made my own MBC from parts from the hardware store and it works wonderfully. If you would like me to share how I made mine I'd be more than happy.

I think you need to step down off your horse and post a pic of your MBC setup. I can't believe that you would refuse to do that (for others, I asked him to do this in the 3/2/G forum and he flat out refused) when others are trying their darnedest to help you out. It'd be a shame if we went through all of this, you didn't post a pic, and it ended up that you routed your MBC incorrectly. Don't hate man, just for ****'s and grins do it. At least we can all look past that and KNOW that you have it all hooked up correctly. Just post it up, prove me wrong and say I told you so.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> I'm sure you already know all this stuff, but I may as well reiterate it for you.
> 
> As already stated, the MBC should have ZERO effect on boost levels below that which it is set. That mean it should have ZERO effect on partial throttle boost control. When run in parallel, all it is, is a bypass around the n75 when boost levels exceed a certain threshold, thus directing pressure around the N75 and to the wastegate actuator. I guess there is always a possiblity that that MBC could be messed up, but I highly doubt it.
> 
> ...




Ok fine....for the record you could have kept the high horse comment to yourself. And just so everyone knows I didn't flat out refuse I told him that I had already sent pics of the n75 set up to Unitronic and they verified that the configuration was correct and I that I also have 2 other mk4 1.8ts setting in the drive way that I compared to. Don't make it sound like I refuse to help myself. I simply stated this has been done. 

The first pics were the pics I sent uni.. I took the mbc out to run logs and take pics as we are trying to solve the issue with no MBC. I put connectors in where I had cut the hoses to install the mbc. You will notice in the first pic that the line coming out of the top of the n75 that is closest to the strut bar goes to the wastegate. The horizontal line coming out of the n75 goes to the charge pipe, you can see it going into the charge pipe in the bottom left corner of the pic.. I know you can see them actual go into the WG and charge pipe good but you should be able to tell.



The second pic I removed the mbc from where I had it mounted to show you better in a pic. I used the T's that came with the kit, i know some people use Y's but the kit comes with T's. I didn't want to clutter up things above the n75 plus I have oil catch can lines in the way so I choose to move it down the line some. I used only the amount of hose that came with the kit. I also spoke with the owner of boost valve who reassured me that the amount of hose used or mounting location wouldn't make a difference. I have two new factory n75 hoses so this was just a mock up to see where I wanted it and then I was going to make a permanent set up if I can't solve the over boost. You can see in the pics that the line going into the bottom of the boost valve is coming from the charge pipe and the line going out of the boost valve goes to the wastegate line.
I removed the boostvalve and took it apart and cleaned it and then adjusted the wastegate and that is at what point in time the low end smoothed out a lot. I really don't like making two changes at the same time because you don't really know what fixed the problem but that is how it happened. I was all for someone telling me the lines were to long or it had to be kept close to the n75 to work right etc but the owner of boost valve assured me it was a good install.


I just tossed the 3rd pic in with everything as it sits.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Sorry for the high horse comment. With the tone you take in the rest of your posts, I almost feel anger as I read them, which may have caused me to be a little saucy. I apologize, let's move on.

Anyway, I confirm your setup. The lines are a little on the long side, but I agree that should have no affect on the way it works. Like I said before, it's hard to imagine that the MBC is actually faulty.

After reading this thread, I got the motivation to get out and clean up my install a little, cutting extra line and compacting the whole system. While I was doing that, I decided to switch from my homemade MBC, to an ebay one that I had laying around because it would look much more clean overall. I can say that my $12 after shipping ebay bleeder type MBC works just as well as the spring and ball bearing one that I made at the hardware store. What I am trying to get here, and it may not even be worth your while, but try one of those cheapo ebay MBCs. I didn't see any difference in boost between the two.

If there is anything else that I can do to help out, since I have a very similar setup; logs, whatever, let me know.:thumbup:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Twopnt016v said:


> Ok fine....for the record you could have kept the high horse comment to yourself. And just so everyone knows I didn't flat out refuse I told him that I had already sent pics of the n75 set up to Unitronic and they verified that the configuration was correct and I that I also have 2 other mk4 1.8ts setting in the drive way that I compared to. Don't make it sound like I refuse to help myself. I simply stated this has been done.
> 
> The first pics were the pics I sent uni.. I took the mbc out to run logs and take pics as we are trying to solve the issue with no MBC. I put connectors in where I had cut the hoses to install the mbc. You will notice in the first pic that the line coming out of the top of the n75 that is closest to the strut bar goes to the wastegate. The horizontal line coming out of the n75 goes to the charge pipe, you can see it going into the charge pipe in the bottom left corner of the pic.. I know you can see them actual go into the WG and charge pipe good but you should be able to tell.
> 
> ...


you have the right idea man. only problem i see is all the tubing. you have so much extra tubing its not really necesary. 

heres a picture of my setup, granted its a hallman pro but its the same concept









its hard to see but after the fitting the line to the n75 is only 2 inches long. and going from the n75 to the wg y fitting is only about 3 inches long. i shortened and rerouted the wg line wo its more direct and out of the way. overall length removed was about 1.5 ft of hose. the mbc only added 5 inches of hose. so all in all less volume to fill








it uses far less hose than stock as i shortened up the line from the wg to the n75. if you look on a longitudinal they only use maybe 6 inches of hose.

the less distance the air has to travel the better. also t fittings are ok but when air needs to be the same for two different points y fittings work best, as there is less resistance for the air to make the turn. shorten up your hoses and try getting y fittings in there and see how it works. also i would mak sure you throw a lil oil on the tiny lil ball in that mbc to ensure it actuates properly.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

And here's my setup. The added lines probably amount for an extra 6" on mine too. I'm running T fittings without any issues. Maybe you should try shorter lines too.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I agree with both of you guys. I just kept the lines long to tuck it out of the way and for mock up purposes. I cut the supplied hose in half that way if i need to reduce the size I have plenty of hose. Like you both said it shouldn't matter especially since people run the mbc inside the cockpit if they want. I also agree about the Y's and the shorter the lines the better. Even thought the pressure will naturally go to path of least resistance in my mind the Y's will be better. I really don't mean to come off as being pompous. People think I am being a d!ck but they really don't know the whole story and I don't think it is necessary to air it out in a public forum like this. I honestly think the only think that can come off as d!ck is the comment to Doug and the guy who posted before reading, others I have been very nice and appreciative towards.. As you said lets move on..... I appreciate the input from all and I am not hating on anyone! If anyone thinks I was being rude I apologize. Thanks for posting your pick 05GTIMarine and if SB_GLI wants to post a pic of his that would be appreciated as well just to see what type of set ups people are rocking. As you can see I have the catch can line right above the n75 so it was natural to want to move it away and reduce the clutter.
Thanks again guys!!!!:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:

I would also like to give a big thanks to Badger for posting my logs and reviewing them as I really appreciate his opinion in this matter. Thanks Badger:thumbup::beer::beer::beer::laugh:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> And here's my setup. The added lines probably amount for an extra 6" on mine too. I'm running T fittings without any issues. Maybe you should try shorter lines too.


You beat me to the punch!....Thanks for posting pics!!!:thumbup::beer::beer::beer::beer:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

ok, to confirm gauge reading to map sensor, to eliminate this..

Have you logged actuator only pressure, no mbc, n75 off (electrically) and seen 9psi on gauge and 1620mb on MAP sensor logging.

Can you confirm this before we proceed. If they tally, to me map sensors reading plausable readings. Log 115 for this please.


Unisettings is easy to use. Load Scale is the 100% value you would reduce to reduce the softwares overal load request which will reduce boost. Get the results to the first tes, then maybe we can determin an appropriate second test


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> ok, to confirm gauge reading to map sensor, to eliminate this..
> 
> Have you logged actuator only pressure, no mbc, n75 off (electrically) and seen 9psi on gauge and 1620mb on MAP sensor logging.
> 
> ...


 Thats an awesome suggestion!!:thumbup: I have not done that. That will be a great way to rule out the map to gauge reading being off in everyones mind and move on from that. Thanks Badger!!! I did replace the map sensor mid way thru the trouble shooting as well.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> Thats an awesome suggestion!!:thumbup: I have not done that. That will be a great way to rule out the map to gauge reading being off in everyones mind and move on from that. Thanks Badger!!! I did replace the map sensor mid way thru the trouble shooting as well.


let us know how it goes..
we can see whats next then..

too many chnages @ same time as you know, and it gets confusing.

good luck


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> let us know how it goes..
> we can see whats next then..
> 
> too many chnages @ same time as you know, and it gets confusing.
> ...


The verdict is in and the boost gauge is spot on. Keep in mind I dialed my waste gate down to try to get rid of the low end boost issue. I left the waste gate setting where it was and ran a log.
Here is a screen shot of the log WOT 3rd gear pull. This is what happens on my boost guage.....it spools quickly to 6psi and then raises to 8-8.5 psi. This is exactly what the logs reflect.





Cleaning the MBC and lowering the waste gate setting are the only two things I did at the same time through out this whole trouble shooting process and then my low end boost issues basically went away. I hate that I did the two at the same time but thats how it happened. I may try to clamp my wastegate a little and see if I can get it to were it should be with out the low end erratic behavior. If I can set it back where it was then maybe we can say the MBC had some debris inside or inside of the small hole on the side.

I would like the get the mbc off the car so I do plan on adjusting the load or turning the n75 duty cycle down some and see where that takes me.

I also am pleased to say that I got an email from Unitronic saying the are still looking into this matter and they will be in touch.

EDIT: I would also like to state that after driving the car around for a few days with the MBC, the car doesn't really seem to boost past 23psi. This is the exact place the MBC was set during the second log that Badger posted. So this would some what explain why the boost level on that log doesn't go past 2510. The first log with no mbc goes up to 2540 and that is when I was definitely hitting 28-30psi. So In my opinion the map is soaked at 2540 and won't read much past that. I have been searching some other logs and I don't think I have seen much past that either...


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Here's a one of my group 115 logs. I have the GIAC k04-001 software. I think it's pretty crazy how it requests full out boost so quickly on yours. Notice how mine has a much smoother curve over the rpm range. Your logs show balls to the walls all the way to redline. Crazy.


```
Group A:	115			
	Engine Speed	Engine Load	Spec. Boost	Actual Boost
TIME	700-6800 RPM	15-150%	990-1800 mbar
```


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

After reading this thread and your experience, with what it sounds like was a dirty MBC, I feel alot more confident in my ebay bleeder type MBC than a spring and ball type MBC. Spring and ball has moving parts, and stuff can get jammed up in there. Bleeder valve has no moving parts and I don't see anyway of it not working correctly short a leaky seal that leaks boost into the atmoshpere.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

I still say u set your wg to 5 psi and take your mbc out and see if the n7 works properly now


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> Here's a one of my group 115 logs. I have the GIAC k04-001 software. I think it's pretty crazy how it requests full out boost so quickly on yours. Notice how mine has a much smoother curve over the rpm range. Your logs show balls to the walls all the way to redline. Crazy.
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> I still say u set your wg to 5 psi and take your mbc out and see if the n7 works properly now


Were gonna get to that. I am seriously doubting it will but I am will to try and see what happens this weekend or maybe tomorrow. I just know at one point the wastegate was set to 5psi and and it was still over boosting.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

That tune is asking for everything right now. Sounds like you need uni to get you straightened out. Is this the same tune as others are running from uni for the FT?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

hatetolovemydub said:


> That tune is asking for everything right now. Sounds like you need uni to get you straightened out. Is this the same tune as others are running from uni for the FT?


If they are running the the Stage 2+ 440cc file for the FT then yes. To be clear there is a stage 2+ 380cc file..this is the 440cc file. This tune is not yet on their website, you have to specifically ask for it to get it. I was told that about 20 people are running this file and everything is lovely with all of them but me. I guess maybe they all have mbc's. Its my understanding that this file was written for the FT so it was supposed to do a great job of controlling the over boost so I wouldn't need a mbc. It seem most people running other tunes need a mbc. I do want to make it clear that Unitronic is offering to reflash but are saying its not gonna change anything and nothing appears to be wrong with the file.. It seems they are trying to catch the error now. It will be about a month before there will be a unitronic dealer in my state.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Gotcha... I just don't understand why they would write a file that would require an MBC. I have never needed one since I flashed my Malone tune. N75 does a fine job holding boost at 21psi. (440's also)


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Twopnt016v said:


> It seems that people everywhere have problems with bleeder valves. I did crank my waste a few turns and we will see if any of the erratic behavior returns. Kind of doubting that any will.


Yeah, but are those people running a bleeder valve running it for overboost protection, or are the using it to control boost in lieu of a n75?

I can see in the case where they bleed the air into the atmosphere to control/raise boost, but with a closed loop system like we are running, I really don't see the difference, and might even be better... But whatever... moot point.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

SB_GLI said:


> Yeah, but are those people running a bleeder valve running it for overboost protection, or are the using it to control boost in lieu of a n75?
> 
> I can see in the case where they bleed the air into the atmosphere to control/raise boost, but with a closed loop system like we are running, I really don't see the difference, and might even be better... But whatever... moot point.


I can't recall exactly what applications people were using. To me if a bleeder valve is used as an over boost solution and the bleeder really sucks and was bleeding off too much air it could send unwanted air to the waste gate and it would start opening prematurely which could lead to slow spool or lag. It could send pressure to the WG when the n75 would normally be routing it around the Wg. But like you said...whatever..


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

:wave:


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## meex (May 19, 2010)

sorry my question, wich N75 do you have? J, F, C ? maybe helps if you try other model.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

meex said:


> sorry my question, wich N75 do you have? J, F, C ? maybe helps if you try other model.


I have tried multiple F valves but the valve I have on the car now is a E valve which is VW's most recent updated valve.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> The verdict is in and the boost gauge is spot on. Keep in mind I dialed my waste gate down to try to get rid of the low end boost issue. I left the waste gate setting where it was and ran a log.
> Here is a screen shot of the log WOT 3rd gear pull. This is what happens on my boost guage.....it spools quickly to 6psi and then raises to 8-8.5 psi. This is exactly what the logs reflect.
> 
> 
> ...


your posted picture of this shows the issue.
software is askign for maximum 2550 request from the get go, and only dropping to 2440 mid range. Thats a recipe for huge spike. Uni need to remedy their software. Its your main issue imho


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

SB_GLI said:


> After reading this thread and your experience, with what it sounds like was a dirty MBC, I feel alot more confident in my ebay bleeder type MBC than a spring and ball type MBC. Spring and ball has moving parts, and stuff can get jammed up in there. Bleeder valve has no moving parts and I don't see anyway of it not working correctly short a leaky seal that leaks boost into the atmoshpere.


bleed valve is going to hurt spool


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

badger5 said:


> your posted picture of this shows the issue.
> software is askign for maximum 2550 request from the get go, and only dropping to 2440 mid range. Thats a recipe for huge spike. Uni need to remedy their software. Its your main issue imho


:thumbup:


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

I think I beginning to find this out. Also, seems like the bleeder valve works differently based on humidity, which kinda sucks. I'm gonna go back to my homemade ball and spring MBC.


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## craigalangibson (Dec 27, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> If they are running the the Stage 2+ 440cc file for the FT then yes. To be clear there is a stage 2+ 380cc file..this is the 440cc file. This tune is not yet on their website, you have to specifically ask for it to get it. I was told that about 20 people are running this file and everything is lovely with all of them but me. I guess maybe they all have mbc's. Its my understanding that this file was written for the FT so it was supposed to do a great job of controlling the over boost so I wouldn't need a mbc. It seem most people running other tunes need a mbc. I do want to make it clear that Unitronic is offering to reflash but are saying its not gonna change anything and nothing appears to be wrong with the file.. It seems they are trying to catch the error now. It will be about a month before there will be a unitronic dealer in my state.


I have had problems with boost since my turbo was put in.

I have the F4-HT kit with Unitronics 440 cc software and 440 cc injectors.

The other engine modifications pertinent to this are: BP Initiatives K&N cone filter with velocity stack clamped on a 3" MAF housing (new/MAF sensor was installed ~25,000 miles ago and was just cleaned); EuroJet Discharge Pipe Kit and EuroJet SMIC (new); NewSouth Powergasket + (new); Audi Hitachi "E" style coils (installed ~25,000 miles ago); NGK PFR7B4CYL spark plugs gapped to .028 mm (new); Forge 007P diverter valve (just serviced); N75 E valve (new); APR 3" TB exhaust; NewSouth Boost/Vacuum and EGT gauges.

I won't be able to post logs until I get home and I get to run diagnostics with VAG COM.

The day before I dropped off my car for the mechanic to install the new FrankenTurbo and exhaust manifold, I installed new spark plugs, changed the oil, cleaned the MAF, installed the 440 cc injectors, replaced the fuel filter and installed the spare (used) ECU with Unitronics 440 cc file on it. I didn't install the turbo myself, as I didn't have enough time and was afraid of the exhaust manifold studs breaking on me. This was a huge mistake on my part and turned out to be a huge nightmare of boost and vacuum leaks and may have masked some of the initial symptoms.

Before the turbo was installed, the car worked just like it had with the basic bolt ons and with the APR stage 2 tune. I did notice that the car was running a little rich and that the Unitronics tune provided a little more power and that the delivery of the power was smother than the APR tune.

After the turbo was installed (minus the two days of hunting down vacuum and boost leaks) the car drives quite erratically. The boost/vacuum gauge shows normal vacuum at idle (22-24 in hg). In first and second gear the boost gauge shows a spike of ~5 PSI which drops promptly to 0 PSI. In third and fourth gear the boost gauge shows a spike of ~15 PSI and then tapers down to ~10 PSI. In fifth and sixth gear the boost gauge shows a spike of 26-28 PSI and holds all the way to redline.

Basically, in lower gears I have no power at all; in higher gears I have too much power.

It feels like I have no power and then WHAM, the power is there. In lower gears and during partial throttle, the throttle is extremely sensitive.

So much for a "bolt on" turbo kit with matching hardware. :facepalm:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

craigalangibson said:


> So much for a "bolt on" turbo kit with matching hardware. :facepalm:


Worth checking somrthing like this is'nt or has'nt occured

http://youtu.be/PdJJXLScrxM

Had this on another turbo recently supplied to me which was dissapointing. Actuator was on it stops, penny was not held shut. Rod did not have sufficient thread to close it tight either.

Also had this occur to me on a turbo- symptums were erratic boost control and low boost at times vs actuator setting

http://youtu.be/eYUDpAOmDT4

Worth checking everything before installing anyones turbo in my experience.
Trust no one.. finding stuff before fitting is going to save you some time/hassle/worry

Check twice, fit once


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

badger5 said:


> Worth checking somrthing like this is'nt or has'nt occured
> 
> http://youtu.be/PdJJXLScrxM
> 
> ...


is that the ft hot side?? im glad that people are speaking up with issues so we can try to get them fixed. the more that speak up good and bad the better. as for the op. how are things going??


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> is that the ft hot side?? im glad that people are speaking up with issues so we can try to get them fixed. the more that speak up good and bad the better. as for the op. how are things going??


its a.n.other turbo in the video - Its an example of what to check, NOT FT.

Point I am making is CHECK stuff fully before fitting for things like this.
Also run bolts into the turbo before fitting to make sure they do go in nice. You will be surprised how often they wont.. retap as required to make 100 % sure they're clear of debris/coatings.. AND also check depth of these to bolts dont bottom out in threads "which may not" be as deep as BW original units.

Check twice, fit once - no matter who supplies it

I have been (and continue to be) bitten by these things unfortunately.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

badger5 said:


> its a.n.other turbo in the video - Its an example of what to check, NOT FT.
> 
> Point I am making is CHECK stuff fully before fitting for things like this.
> Also run bolts into the turbo before fitting to make sure they do go in nice. You will be surprised how often they wont.. retap as required to make 100 % sure they're clear of debris/coatings.. AND also check depth of these to bolts dont bottom out in threads "which may not" be as deep as BW original units.
> ...


i hear ya. our manifold to turbo bolts keep backing out on both of our setups ( brightgolf and mine) so we are looking into the next step. i hate havint to carry a 16 mm and tightening them up on the highway in my nice clothes lol. if you hear a whine coming from the turbo its not the turbo its an exhaust leak.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> i hear ya. our manifold to turbo bolts keep backing out on both of our setups ( brightgolf and mine) so we are looking into the next step. i hate havint to carry a 16 mm and tightening them up on the highway in my nice clothes lol. if you hear a whine coming from the turbo its not the turbo its an exhaust leak.


I presume you are using Dougs larger bore exhaust mani with the FT yea?
I always check installed heights on these type of manifolds and turbos as often the 70mm long bolts which come with them, combined with varied hotsides from various origins, have differing thread depths.. Stack the dimensions all up and its marginal on the depth of thread vs bolt length being adequate to fully clamp. 5mm off the bolts will make a world of difference. I also use nordlocks under the bolt heads and nickle anti-seize on the threads.. which allows me to tighten them up nicely. A2 stainless bolts have'nt come undone for me as yet, nor 12:9 grade regular hardware. Do em up cold, tighten them up when hot.. they have stayed tight for me


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

badger5 said:


> I presume you are using Dougs larger bore exhaust mani with the FT yea?
> I always check installed heights on these type of manifolds and turbos as often the 70mm long bolts which come with them, combined with varied hotsides from various origins, have differing thread depths.. Stack the dimensions all up and its marginal on the depth of thread vs bolt length being adequate to fully clamp. 5mm off the bolts will make a world of difference. I also use nordlocks under the bolt heads and nickle anti-seize on the threads.. which allows me to tighten them up nicely. A2 stainless bolts have'nt come undone for me as yet, nor 12:9 grade regular hardware. Do em up cold, tighten them up when hot.. they have stayed tight for me


yep using original supplied bolts. those are the only non oem items in my kit. what bolts did you use. are they m10 or m12??? i can go to fastenal and get the ones i need. just need to know the size/pitch


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> yep using original supplied bolts. those are the only non oem items in my kit. what bolts did you use. are they m10 or m12??? i can go to fastenal and get the ones i need. just need to know the size/pitch


M10x1.5 bolts, 12:9 grade in mild steel or A2 in stainless, whichever you get. 12:9 stronger on initial tightening, but the heat will degrade their tensile strength in service.

check the length


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> i hear ya. our manifold to turbo bolts keep backing out on both of our setups ( brightgolf and mine) so we are looking into the next step. i hate havint to carry a 16 mm and tightening them up on the highway in my nice clothes lol. if you hear a whine coming from the turbo its not the turbo its an exhaust leak.


I just checked my bolts and found 2 had loosened up a little but not enough to leak. I torqued mine down properly when hot too. I asked about this as I read some threads where people were b_tching about the bolts and was told that there is nothing wrong with the hardware so I ran with what came with the kit. I understand things like this happen but I am going to take the time to swap to some better hardware. I just want these issues to be noted so they can solved in the future so other people don't have the same headache.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> your posted picture of this shows the issue.
> software is askign for maximum 2550 request from the get go, and only dropping to 2440 mid range. Thats a recipe for huge spike. Uni need to remedy their software. Its your main issue imho


Unitronic emailed me and said....."it is totally normal that it request full boost from start, that way the n75 start to operated faster for a faster spool up."
:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> Unitronic emailed me and said....."it is totally normal that it request full boost from start, that way the n75 start to operated faster for a faster spool up."
> :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


oh dear...
banzaii is their "tune"?

really?

MBC or another tuner - UNi's tune is not going to work for you like that on the FT

This is a tune done for an FT yea? you 100% sure on that?


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> oh dear...
> banzaii is their "tune"?
> 
> really?
> ...


Yes Sir. I was speaking with the Uni guy the whole time he had my ecu to make sure I got the proper tune. Then I have questioned him over and over since then and he says this is the FT tune. I asked him are you sure it is not possible that I got the 440cc big turbo tune and he said it is impossible. This is a guy at Unitronic in canada at the headquarters. I am obviously going to have to roll with it for now since I spent $650+$200shipping. Thank god for MBC. I have been slammed at the shop so I haven't had anytime to play with it but I am definitely going to try to adjust the load and see what happens...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Twopnt016v said:


> Yes Sir. I was speaking with the Uni guy the whole time he had my ecu to make sure I got the proper tune. Then I have questioned him over and over since then and he says this is the FT tune.


Did you send them logs to review? If not, do that. There's enough inconsistencies between you and other Stg2+ users to warrant a double-check on the flash you're running. Your airmass numbers are not consistent with other cars' on this file. They're too high. And not just "overboost high". They're clearly based on a different scaling method. That's a red flag.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Did you send them logs to review? If not, do that. There's enough inconsistencies between you and other Stg2+ users to warrant a double-check on the flash you're running. Your airmass numbers are not consistent with other cars' on this file. They're too high. And not just "overboost high". They're clearly based on a different scaling method. That's a red flag.


Thanks for chiming in Doug. I have sent logs to them. I sent them all of the logs posted here plus the screen shot of the last log running wastegate pressure just so they could see the high request from the jump. Honestly it feels like they were working on it for a minute and then moved on. It somewhat feels like they got my money so now they could careless how the tune performs. They still think everything is peachy like cobbler. I guess once a dealer in my area gets up and running I'm gonna be shaking them down for a reflash. I love how the car is running for the most part. It does feel like the boost comes on really strong (like 0-10psi)which could be expected from from a hybrid ko4. Anyway..really happy with the turbo Doug:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Honestly, the airmass numbers you're seeing are simply not Unitronic numbers. All of their 3" MAF files (to my knowledge) typically run to maybe 175-180g/s. They're scaled weird. But yours...? The MAF figures are just not registering at all.

My recommendation: install and dial in an MBC for 20psi max boost so we can take a look at your other data blocks. I want to see injector duty & MAF (block 002) Air/Fuel (block 031) and O2 adaptation (032).

Collect all data in continuous WOT 3rd gear pulls.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Honestly, the airmass numbers you're seeing are simply not Unitronic numbers. All of their 3" MAF files (to my knowledge) typically run to maybe 175-180g/s. They're scaled weird. But yours...? The MAF figures are just not registering at all.
> 
> My recommendation: install and dial in an MBC for 20psi max boost so we can take a look at your other data blocks. I want to see injector duty & MAF (block 002) Air/Fuel (block 031) and O2 adaptation (032).
> 
> Collect all data in continuous WOT 3rd gear pulls.


I should be able to run some logs after work today and I'll shoot you an email as well as post them up here. Thanks Doug!


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Running an MBC clipping the boost at 22 or so....


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

*frankenturbo overboost problems*

i am having the same problem with my f4t kit. had to install MBC to control boost spikes. my car runs like absolute sh!t. got no help from slappy d at all, just smart a$$ comments about how he just sells turbos. he is not responsible for anything past that. i had no problems running 24 psi of boost all day long with no problems whatsoever. now i cant run over 17 psi without constantly going into limp mode. my advice to people looking to buy one is DON'T! you would be better of with a ko4 and get it tuned in really good. i have been nothing but disapointed with this kit. don't waste your money. if you do want to go with this kit i will sell you mine at a deep discount.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

*frankenturbo kit*

i have about $1150 in the kit. i would take $900 OBO. everything is in perfect working order. you can reach me at [email protected] or text me at 502 296 1316


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

with a 3 post thread count u really think any body is going to pay you any mind? :screwy:

get a manual boost controller like boostvalve.com and run it in parallel. 

Any k04 will make you overboost. You shouldnt come on to the Vortex and bash reputable company because you are to inept to properly tune and trouble shoot your car


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

turbobeast,
idk what your situation is with Doug, but i've had nothing but excellent, if not outstanding costumer service/support from him.
when i was doing my install, i would shoot him a question at like midnight and 1AM and he would reply within mins. and im in SoCal.:thumbup:
constantly, i might add.

i still shoot him questions every now and again, and he still gets to me within minutes.
:beer:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

kinda off topic here but,
i was reading through the thread and saw the way some of you had your MBC setup.

well, i hav a TurboXS MBC and when i ran it the way some of you do, it wouldnt controll the boost. also, the diagram that came with it showed to setup in parallel with the n75. i would floor it and it would boost to 30PSI. QUICK. which is all fun and intoxicating as fu(k. but scared the sh!t out of me.

anyways, for mine MBC to work i undid the Y fittings and hooked up the hoses directly to the MBC. but left the n75 in the boot and wire plugged to it.

now its works perfectly, havnt a probelm since then.

my question is do some MBCs operate differntly from others? or what?
thanks in advance.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

checkdalevel said:


> with a 3 post thread count u really thing any body is going to pay you any mind? :screwy:
> 
> get a manual boost controller like boostvalve.com and run it in parallel.
> 
> Any k04 will make you overboost. You shouldnt come on to the Vortex and bash reputable company because you are to inept to properly tune and trouble shoot your car


:thumbup:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> kinda off topic here but,
> i was reading through the thread and saw the way some of you had your MBC setup.
> 
> well, i hav a TurboXS MBC and when i ran it the way some of you do, it wouldnt controll the boost. also, the diagram that came with it showed to setup in parallel with the n75. i would floor it and it would boost to 30PSI. QUICK. which is all fun and intoxicating as fu(k. but scared the sh!t out of me.
> ...


The big difference in MBC's are if they are ball and spring or a bleeder style. Assuming you had it hooked up right and that it's a ball and spring type it should have worked properly. I have read of people having this problem with a bleeder type set up.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

05GTIMarine said:


> i hear ya. our manifold to turbo bolts keep backing out on both of our setups ( brightgolf and mine) so we are looking into the next step. i hate havint to carry a 16 mm and tightening them up on the highway in my nice clothes lol. if you hear a whine coming from the turbo its not the turbo its an exhaust leak.


the hardware that comes with the kit is garbage. source some factory turbo to manifold bolts. then get a better turbo, thats my solution. i think you know how i feel about them


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> turbobeast,
> idk what your situation is with Doug, but i've had nothing but excellent, if not outstanding costumer service/support from him.
> when i was doing my install, i would shoot him a question at like midnight and 1AM and he would reply within mins. and im in SoCal.:thumbup:
> constantly, i might add.
> ...


i am glad your experience was better than mine. at first doug responded quickly and was very helpful, until i installed the turbo. i ran into a couple of problems so i shot him an email. his only response was that he only sells turbos and has no responsibility or advice beyond that. this is not the place to say what i really think about them. i would love to be happy with my frankenturbo just cant get any advice from anyone WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

checkdalevel said:


> with a 3 post thread count u really think any body is going to pay you any mind? :screwy:
> 
> get a manual boost controller like boostvalve.com and run it in parallel.
> 
> Any k04 will make you overboost. You shouldnt come on to the Vortex and bash reputable company because you are to inept to properly tune and trouble shoot your car


3 post count might make a difference to people who live thier lives on the internet. i actually work on cars everyday (ASE certified master technician) and i live, drive, race, tune, and fu(k in real life, i dont jump on the vortex to discuss what other people are doing right, wrong or otherwise. when i did have a problem, i tried to deal with the "company" i was working with. after that i looked on the forums, i saw that there were others having similar problems. the only option people could come up with was the MBC ran in parallel. well i did run the MBC but, if i set it above 17psi my car will constantly go into limp mode.
my problem is with my old ko4 i never had any overboost issues. i could run 24-25psi all the time. a buddy who has the frankenturbo f4t kit has no issues with his kit is running 20 psi. his car is much slower than mine. ???
also just so you know, your turbo (ko4 or any) does not cause overboost. overboost is caused by vacuum leaks or software issues.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Twopnt016v said:


> The big difference in MBC's are if they are ball and spring or a bleeder style. Assuming you had it hooked up right and that it's a ball and spring type it should have worked properly. I have read of people having this problem with a bleeder type set up.


its a ball and spring type.
i almost went with the Dual Stage MBC.
also, im positive it was hooked up correctly. double and tripple checked. looked at other peoples setups, and had friends look at mine.
the only way it would work was when it was not run in parallel with the N75.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

turbobeast said:


> 3 post count might make a difference to people who live thier lives on the internet. i actually work on cars everyday (ASE certified master technician) and i live, drive, race, tune, and fu(k in real life, i dont jump on the vortex to discuss what other people are doing right, wrong or otherwise. when i did have a problem, i tried to deal with the "company" i was working with. after that i looked on the forums, i saw that there were others having similar problems. the only option people could come up with was the MBC ran in parallel. well i did run the MBC but, if i set it above 17psi my car will constantly go into limp mode.
> my problem is with my old ko4 i never had any overboost issues. i could run 24-25psi all the time. a buddy who has the frankenturbo f4t kit has no issues with his kit is running 20 psi. his car is much slower than mine. ???
> also just so you know, your turbo (ko4 or any) does not cause overboost. overboost is caused by vacuum leaks or software issues.



idk if you know this, but there is no ASE cert in modding.:laugh:
if you so expierienced in the field, then you should know its probably something wrong with your car.
key would PROBABLY.
im not saying the FT is a perfect turbo, so their might be a defect.
see if doug will look at it to see if he did something wrong on his end.

if everything is hunky-dory then compare with other peoples setups, trouble shoot, diagnose. you got the fancy c0ck cert. you should know how this stuff works.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

turbobeast said:


> 3 post count might make a difference to people who live thier lives on the internet. i actually work on cars everyday (ASE certified master technician) and i live, drive, race, tune, and fu(k in real life, i dont jump on the vortex to discuss what other people are doing right, wrong or otherwise. when i did have a problem, i tried to deal with the "company" i was working with. after that i looked on the forums, i saw that there were others having similar problems. the only option people could come up with was the MBC ran in parallel. well i did run the MBC but, if i set it above 17psi my car will constantly go into limp mode.
> my problem is with my old ko4 i never had any overboost issues. i could run 24-25psi all the time. a buddy who has the frankenturbo f4t kit has no issues with his kit is running 20 psi. his car is much slower than mine. ???
> also just so you know, your turbo (ko4 or any) does not cause overboost. overboost is caused by vacuum leaks or software issues.



yeh.... go on youtube and search for the frankenturbo videos. That guy who made 263 wheel horse power and 306 torque. Well that guy is me so i think think i've registered my right to give a valid opinion or advise on any frankenturbo thread.

instead of coming out like an A$$ how about u tell the gentlemen hear what tuning you currently have done and we can point you in the right direction.

Some thing doesnt sound right if u are hitting limp mode when u boost over 17psi when using a MBC in parallel


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

checkdalevel said:


> yeh.... go on youtube and search for the frankenturbo videos. That guy who made 263 wheel horse power and 306 torque. Well that guy is me so i think think i've registered my right to give a valid opinion or advise on any frankenturbo thread.
> 
> instead of coming out like an A$$ how about u tell the gentlemen hear what tuning you currently have done and we can point you in the right direction.
> 
> Some thing doesnt sound right if u are hitting limp mode when u boost over 17psi when using a MBC in parallel


i'm currently running APR ko4 software. what i dont understand is that everyone is running a MBC to control boost spikes. to me that just helps the symptoms of overboost, it does nothing for the cause. for people to say that this is the answer just makes no sense. i had no problems running 25 psi all day long with my old ko4. overboost is the condition where your fuel curve and your boost curve do not match, causing lean fuel mixture. if we turn down the MBC to control the max boost level, what is the purpose of getting a bigger turbo? Boost is boost, right? 24 psi from one turbo is the same as 24 psi from another turbo. just like 50 mph in my car is the same as 50 mph in your car. if i am wrong somebody please let me know, not trying to be a jerk. also not trying to come off like an a$$ but, if you cant post your opinions on here what is the point? im looking for intelligent advice thats all. also i am hitting limp mode before it gets to 17 psi. usually it happens when i am letting off of the throttle or in mid range rpms. thanks


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

turbobeast said:


> i am glad your experience was better than mine. at first doug responded quickly and was very helpful, until i installed the turbo. i ran into a couple of problems so i shot him an email. his only response was that he only sells turbos and has no responsibility or advice beyond that. this is not the place to say what i really think about them. i would love to be happy with my frankenturbo just cant get any advice from anyone WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT.


You are a Jerk! Did you really expect to get help from anyone with that kind of attitude?
You come here claiming that you know so much about cars, than proceed to bash the people who roam this forum by basically saying that you have a life and they don't, yet you have no clue how to control a simple overboost and going into limp mode.

You make people with ASE certifiction look really bad, boost is simple and there is a thousand way to control it regardless of what turbo/hardware is in use. The wastegate is what controls boost, not the person who sold you the turbo. Decide on a good mechanical or elctronic way of tailoring your boost and install properly, that's it. The ecu controlled N75 and basic MBC are not good at controlling rapid amount boost spikes at onset, like what the FT puts out or a stock turbo running big boost. I run 30+ psi on the K04 and the N75, or a simple MBC could not control the rapid boost overshoot that I have, I needed to run two heavy duty (stiff springs with miniature bleed holes) home made MBC to keep boost the way I want. One MBC is used to tailor boost onset and the the second one takes care of max boost. Any advance Electronic boost controller could also achieve the same thing. Maybe you need to spend more time with the low life like us to learn a few things about cars (BTW I am certified too).


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

turbobeast said:


> i'm currently running APR ko4 software. what i dont understand is that everyone is running a MBC to control boost spikes. to me that just helps the symptoms of overboost, it does nothing for the cause. for people to say that this is the answer just makes no sense. i had no problems running 25 psi all day long with my old ko4. overboost is the condition where your fuel curve and your boost curve do not match, causing lean fuel mixture. if we turn down the MBC to control the max boost level, what is the purpose of getting a bigger turbo? Boost is boost, right? 24 psi from one turbo is the same as 24 psi from another turbo. just like 50 mph in my car is the same as 50 mph in your car. if i am wrong somebody please let me know, not trying to be a jerk. also not trying to come off like an a$$ but, if you cant post your opinions on here what is the point? im looking for intelligent advice thats all. also i am hitting limp mode before it gets to 17 psi. usually it happens when i am letting off of the throttle or in mid range rpms. thanks


You are wrong again! If you were to ask your K04 to boost past 2 bars, the OEM boost control system would also become inadequate. The FT just lower that threshold where the stock or generic MBC are no longer equipt to deal with the very rapid boost overshoot. The method of boost control you are using does not react quick enough to catch the quick and massive onset of a small frame turbo. You will always hit limp mode unless you control the overshoot properly or a) disable the sensor responsible for that kind of limp (N249)
b) clamp the boost pressure sensor (there is no map sensor in these cars) to always read under the limp threshold.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

turbobeast said:


> Boost is boost, right? 24 psi from one turbo is the same as 24 psi from another turbo. just like 50 mph in my car is the same as 50 mph in your car.


your wrong here too.
24 psi out of a ko3s is gonna be far less power than 24 psi out of a FT.
the reason being is the VOLUME of air thats being pushed through.
bigger turbos can move more air efficiently.
its like the difference between blowing air out of your mouth, and blowing air out your nose.
try it. litterally....

see how its easier to move more VOLUME of air when you exhale out your mouth than it is if you try to exhale out your nose.

same thing with inhaling right.

there you go. thats why bigger turbos can make more power with less psi.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

I think this is all interesting. What I think u all are forgetting is hat the tension on the wg will affect everything. 

Stock turbo is set at approximately 5 psi. ( hat is when the wg starts to actuate) 

The frankenturbo is set for approximately 8 psi. 

Having said that, the n75 and your ecu control when the wg should start actuating to control boost to the given perameter. Seeing as ur program thinks u have a stock turbo with a stock wg pressure setting it opens up far too late causing overboost. If you run wg alone u will see 8-10 psi. Turn it Down until you have 5 or 6 psi and try running with n75 in line u may have to tweak it a lil but u should have more consistent boosting


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^^^^^^^I agree with him!!:thumbup::thumbup:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I was having problems with limb mode as well if I cranked on my wastegate. I have mine set to 6psi and rarely hit limp mode, Before that when I tried to set it to 8psi I would hit limp mode about once a week or every few days...
The wastegate on the FT isn't set properly before it is shipped. Everyone seems to have problems until they adjust the wastegate some. My wastegate came set to 20psi when I received it. I suggest you start there. Loosen your WG rod and unplug your n75 and take it for a test drive. With the n75 unplugged you shouldn't be able to boost past 6-8psi. If you boost past 6-8 loosen your rod more until you can't boost past 6-8. Once you reach that point, plug your n75 back up and give it a try.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

i know for a fact that Slappy was setting the wastegate prior to shipping.

I just thing the wastegates act different when they are on the car.

i read a whole lot of threads with APR k04 owners and overboosting. 

we still havent verified he even has the correct n75.

whatever run a manual boost controller in parallel and be done with it.

I really dont want to see an other crybaby k04 owner cry on the vortex about overboosting.:facepalm:

its getting real old


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

checkdalevel said:


> i know for a fact that Slappy was setting the wastegate prior to shipping.
> 
> I just thing the wastegates act different when they are on the car.
> 
> ...


I agree that it gets old reading about people having overboost issues with a k04. I tested my wastegate with a gauge mechanical and it didn't begin to crack until 19psi. I have read about others having the same problem. I'm not trying to badmouth the product or the supplier, I love my :heart: Frankenturbo:heart:.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Twopnt016v said:


> I tested my wastegate with a gauge mechanical and it didn't begin to crack until 19psi.


Not acceptable actuator behavior. The spec is 8psi crack pressure, fully open by 15psi. You are SURE of this? If so, email me.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

i guess that this thread is for people who think that their sh!t dont stink. i asked for some help from some people who know what they are talking about. evidently that is much harder to find than people who run their mouth without thinking first. no offense to most of you. i can tell some of you are trying to be helpful. if you read some of my earlier posts you would see that i already have a MBC connected in parallel and it does not really help. also this is the first time that i am hearing that APR software does not work well with the FT. that would have been helpful. my main question to anyone who knows what they are talking about is; with the unitronic sofware do you still run into the overboost issues and have to run the MBC? even if you do have to run the MBC does your FT perform well? like enough to make it worth the money and the software? i mean this in the nicest way possible. im not on here to have everyone on the vortex pissed at me. i just cant stand when everyone replies to people like they think everyone is stupid it makes me mad. if i pissed anyone off, i am truly sorry. thanks a lot


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

Twopnt016v said:


> ^^^^^^^I agree with him!!:thumbup::thumbup:^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I was having problems with limb mode as well if I cranked on my wastegate. I have mine set to 6psi and rarely hit limp mode, Before that when I tried to set it to 8psi I would hit limp mode about once a week or every few days...
> The wastegate on the FT isn't set properly before it is shipped. Everyone seems to have problems until they adjust the wastegate some. My wastegate came set to 20psi when I received it. I suggest you start there. Loosen your WG rod and unplug your n75 and take it for a test drive. With the n75 unplugged you shouldn't be able to boost past 6-8psi. If you boost past 6-8 loosen your rod more until you can't boost past 6-8. Once you reach that point, plug your n75 back up and give it a try.


 thanks for the advice. it feels good to get some advice from someone who actually is trying to be helpful. i tried even to get some help from slappy d with no luck. thanks again i will let you know what happens.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

madmax199 said:


> You are a Jerk! Did you really expect to get help from anyone with that kind of attitude?
> You come here claiming that you know so much about cars, than proceed to bash the people who roam this forum by basically saying that you have a life and they don't, yet you have no clue how to control a simple overboost and going into limp mode.
> 
> You make people with ASE certifiction look really bad, boost is simple and there is a thousand way to control it regardless of what turbo/hardware is in use. The wastegate is what controls boost, not the person who sold you the turbo. Decide on a good mechanical or elctronic way of tailoring your boost and install properly, that's it. The ecu controlled N75 and basic MBC are not good at controlling rapid amount boost spikes at onset, like what the FT puts out or a stock turbo running big boost. I run 30+ psi on the K04 and the N75, or a simple MBC could not control the rapid boost overshoot that I have, I needed to run two heavy duty (stiff springs with miniature bleed holes) home made MBC to keep boost the way I want. One MBC is used to tailor boost onset and the the second one takes care of max boost. Any advance Electronic boost controller could also achieve the same thing. Maybe you need to spend more time with the low life like us to learn a few things about cars (BTW I am certified too).


i am not trying to come off as a jerk at all. as soon as i posted a question on this forum, i got slammed from every direction. i guess this made me a little defensive. someone downgradind me because of my post count is just ridiculous. if everyone knew everything about their cars there would be no reason for this forum. no reason to try to hang with the low lifes when i am one myself. i have been in the vw scene for 17 years. do i think i know every damn thing? absolutely not. what i am trying to decide is if this kit is really beneficial for me at this point. with my old ko4 i was running 25 psi with no problems ever. i was also pushing about 245 hp on the dyno. does anyone actually know what the hp capabilities are for this kit? realistically? sorry again if i came off like an a$$, i'm one of you guys. thanks


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

thanks for the lesson. i appreciate it.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

:beer:


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

madmax199 said:


> You are a Jerk! Did you really expect to get help from anyone with that kind of attitude?
> You come here claiming that you know so much about cars, than proceed to bash the people who roam this forum by basically saying that you have a life and they don't, yet you have no clue how to control a simple overboost and going into limp mode.
> 
> You make people with ASE certifiction look really bad, boost is simple and there is a thousand way to control it regardless of what turbo/hardware is in use. The wastegate is what controls boost, not the person who sold you the turbo. Decide on a good mechanical or elctronic way of tailoring your boost and install properly, that's it. The ecu controlled N75 and basic MBC are not good at controlling rapid amount boost spikes at onset, like what the FT puts out or a stock turbo running big boost. I run 30+ psi on the K04 and the N75, or a simple MBC could not control the rapid boost overshoot that I have, I needed to run two heavy duty (stiff springs with miniature bleed holes) home made MBC to keep boost the way I want. One MBC is used to tailor boost onset and the the second one takes care of max boost. Any advance Electronic boost controller could also achieve the same thing. Maybe you need to spend more time with the low life like us to learn a few things about cars (BTW I am certified too).


never said people on this forum dont have a life. iwas responding to someone who was being a d!ck. i roam these threads for the same reason you do. to find info that will help me with issues with or tuning my car. i did get defensive because of the smart a$$ comments i got in return. i am not here to piss people off. i'm here for the love of the VW. just don't understand the attitudes some of these people come off with. i would love to get some more info on your setup if you could help me out. thanks a lot


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

madmax199 said:


> You are wrong again! If you were to ask your K04 to boost past 2 bars, the OEM boost control system would also become inadequate. The FT just lower that threshold where the stock or generic MBC are no longer equipt to deal with the very rapid boost overshoot. The method of boost control you are using does not react quick enough to catch the quick and massive onset of a small frame turbo. You will always hit limp mode unless you control the overshoot properly or a) disable the sensor responsible for that kind of limp (N249)
> b) clamp the boost pressure sensor (there is no map sensor in these cars) to always read under the limp threshold.


also i have bypassed the n249 valve


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Not acceptable actuator behavior. The spec is 8psi crack pressure, fully open by 15psi. You are SURE of this? If so, email me.


Yeah I'm sure. I emailed you and told you about it. No big deal but I definitely tested it over and over and it did'nt begin to crack until then. I tested it with a automotive gauge and then tested it with a new south boost gauge and same results.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

turbobeast said:


> thanks for the advice. it feels good to get some advice from someone who actually is trying to be helpful. i tried even to get some help from slappy d with no luck. thanks again i will let you know what happens.


No problem man:thumbup:. Unplug the n75 and see what happens. You can also just run a vac line from the intake manifold to the wastegate(just leave the n75 plugged in with the line to the wastegate unhooked) and achieve the same results as unplugging the n75. This is called running waste gate pressure. Mine needs to be set to 6psi for everything to be good. If I start clamping down on it I start hitting limp mode about 12psi. Good luck!:beer:


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## tlj 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

Turbo beast I'm running Apr K04 software with my frankenturbo I have had the same problem that the car wants to overboost bad while running the ecs race n75, and erradic part throttle like it goes to 10-15psi and drops back down to 5. This is only partial throttle and not always. Maybe I need to clean my boostvalve. When I run the stock n75 I don't see more than 14psi its weird I don't know why. Running the race n75 and boostvalve parallel I see about a 23psi spike and about 15-17 at redline. I am very happy with all my compents and my kit just feel the apr software is kind of weak.


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

the ECS "race" n75 is crap.
use the stock n75. i use a '01 S4 n75 and i thinkin its a bit better than the stock GTI n75. idk if there is a difference in the way it operates. but it mounts a little differently.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

turbobeast said:


> i am not trying to come off as a jerk at all. as soon as i posted a question on this forum, i got slammed from every direction. i guess this made me a little defensive. someone downgradind me because of my post count is just ridiculous. if everyone knew everything about their cars there would be no reason for this forum. no reason to try to hang with the low lifes when i am one myself. i have been in the vw scene for 17 years. do i think i know every damn thing? absolutely not. what i am trying to decide is if this kit is really beneficial for me at this point. with my old ko4 i was running 25 psi with no problems ever. i was also pushing about 245 hp on the dyno. does anyone actually know what the hp capabilities are for this kit? realistically? sorry again if i came off like an a$$, i'm one of you guys. thanks


Is the kit beneficial to you? I think so, it's a hybrid turbo capable of flowing more air and sustaining that flow when the OEM turbos run out of breath and fall flat on their face. My estimation is that this turbo is capable of pushing 400 TQ/350 HP at the wheels with the right supporting mods and tune. Do you have the right amount of fuel and method boost control for the hardware change? I don't think so, with your K04, the flash (wich control the n75 duty cycle profile) was tailored for the hardware and able to take care of boost appropriately. Now that you have introduced a new hardware that most likely have a different wastegate preload than stock, the n75 is no longer calibrated for the new variable. I think your frustration is coming from not being able to control the boost overshoot even with a MBC added to the mix. The reason that it failed to do so, is because, although controlling the boost, there is still some overshoot from the rapid spike that went past the the preset limit in the ecu and trigered the limp. 

My advice to you is to do the following:
- a wastegate actuation pressure test to find out the preload on your actuator.

- an actuator preload calibration (try to match stock preload of 7.5 psi)

- introduce a MBC/EBC that's capable of taking care of any overshoot (you need somthing that has a way of controlling both onset and max boost seperately, maybe a pneumatic boost controller like the one made by Autospeed and sold here under the name of "boost machine" from Modshack).

- Maybe try clamping the pressure signal going to the ecu so it won't send you into limp until you can get everything squared away. This is not advisable if you don't have the proper fuel and internals to make use of the boost spike if it's a lot.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> the ECS "race" n75 is crap.
> use the stock n75. i use a '01 S4 n75 and i thinkin its a bit better than the stock GTI n75. idk if there is a difference in the way it operates. but it mounts a little differently.


I am tired of hearing that the ECS is N75 is crap. Most people that use it, do so with a flash tailored to work with an OEM N75. They fail to realise that the ecu has no way of knowing the hardware change and still requesting the same duty cycle out of a valve with a different profile. I ran the ECS unit just to test what everyone was saying about it and got great results. I had a ball and spring MBC in the pressure line going to the N75 and another one in the line going to the wategate actuator. I was able to tweak watever onset and max boost I wanted and the reaction was quicker out of the ECS race valve. 

I also tested tuning the adjustable orifice in the OEM unit with great succes, I still choose to run the race valve because it's still more agressive than a fully cranked OEM N75 (I guess the duty cycle from the ecu signal is also modified by ECS beside the mechanical bleed hole size).


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## tlj 3 (Dec 29, 2009)

I had the n75 race installed prior to my frankenturbo because I had the abd split second boost controller (electronic) Its the only valve that would not have turbo surge. That split second boost controller alos made my car run faster than some giac and apr stage 1 cars. I know I ran better times with them there. But when I switched to frankenturbo and apr k04 I left the race n75 on. It spiked high so I put on a boostvalve in parallel and its fine. If I run the stock n75 I only get 14-15psi with my frankenturbo. Thats unaceptable so race n75 it is spike 23-24 all day and hold 15-17 thru redline. I'm also spraying water meth with my setup. I am satisfied and love my frankenturbo I got used of the extra power fast so I always tell my friends my car is slow. They tell me Im wrong everytime they ride they think its fast. One friend has a 2003 gt mustang fully bolted everything tuned, intake, intake plenum and manifold, bigger throttle body, spec stage 3 clutch, B&M short shift and 4:10 gears I can run side by side with him all day everyday!


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Alright sloppy Dunbar, U are not setting he wg to he appropriate pressure. Set them to 5 and keep them there. The code is not written for initial crack at 8psi. Learn how ur turbos work on cars. U don't even own a car to test them on and rely on others input. This is a common problem. U should be noticing the trend by now


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> Alright sloppy Dunbar, U are not setting he wg to he appropriate pressure. Set them to 5 and keep them there. The code is not written for initial crack at 8psi. Learn how ur turbos work on cars. U don't even own a car to test them on and rely on others input. This is a common problem. U should be noticing the trend by now


Dude, why you such a d1ck? This forum doesn't need your constant piss-poor attitude.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

madmax199 said:


> I am tired of hearing that the ECS is N75 is crap. Most people that use it, do so with a flash tailored to work with an OEM N75. They fail to realise that the ecu has no way of knowing the hardware change and still requesting the same duty cycle out of a valve with a different profile. I ran the ECS unit just to test what everyone was saying about it and got great results. I had a ball and spring MBC in the pressure line going to the N75 and another one in the line going to the wategate actuator. I was able to tweak watever onset and max boost I wanted and the reaction was quicker out of the ECS race valve.
> 
> I also tested tuning the adjustable orifice in the OEM unit with great succes, I still choose to run the race valve because it's still more agressive than a fully cranked OEM N75 (I guess the duty cycle from the ecu signal is also modified by ECS beside the mechanical bleed hole size).


I second this.

I bought a N75 J valve, just for the sake of being more "complient" with my GIAC software. I can tell you that my N75 Race valve (which is just an outdated VW part with the part number scored off) holds a much smoother boost profile. The J valve makes for alot of boost surge at WOT, where the Race valve was pretty much right on with the request from the ECU. The J valve bounces between 17-21 lbs at WOT where the race valve stays pegged @ 19-20lbs. I've given the ECU a couple weeks to adapt to the J valve, but it really hasn't gotten much better. I'm about ready to throw the race valve back on.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

It's not a piss poor attitude. Coming from years of troubleshooting experience it's not hard to see he only variable that causes the outcome of an overboost issue. Stop defending someone who is a carpenter by trade and a good scheme artist by hobby. Adjust ur wg to 5 psi and then if I doesnt work call me a piece of **** other than that **** u


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

I'm not defending anyone, I'm just calling you a d!ck.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

05GTIMarine said:


> It's not a piss poor attitude. Coming from years of troubleshooting experience it's not hard to see he only variable that causes the outcome of an overboost issue. Stop defending someone who is a carpenter by trade and a good scheme artist by hobby. Adjust ur wg to 5 psi and then if I doesnt work call me a piece of **** other than that **** u


i feel you and your frustration. i dont want to bash anyone, i just want to be happy with the product i purchased. i have never seen the number of overboost issues from any kit like this before. it seems like this is just something we are expected to live with. not acceptable. i am happy to say that i did remedy some issues that i was having. even though i was pretty sure it was a software problem, what i found was a hardware problem. i checked everything for vacuum and exhaust leaks and found none. i finally switched out the DV that came with the kit for one i had in my toolbox (atmosphere; hyperboost DV). after that my car drives much smoother. no low end erratic boost and i could even turn my max boost up on the MBC with no limp mode. not sure if this has "cured" everything but, it has made a world of difference. anyone else had this problem?


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

MÄDDNESSS said:


> the ECS "race" n75 is crap.
> use the stock n75. i use a '01 S4 n75 and i thinkin its a bit better than the stock GTI n75. idk if there is a difference in the way it operates. but it mounts a little differently.


is the s4 n75 the same as n75j? if not could you possibly get the part number from it? thanks


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Call me a dick all u want man. I help where I can. Everyone I know with f4 turbos and even the 15 -16 ppl who message me have issues. I've tallied it up and so far out of the 20 ppl I know 18 are having overboost issues


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Gents:

You are buying a HYBRID K03 when you buy one of these..
Its not a stock replacement unit without having other hardware/software to suit its greater flow/power characteristics. some folks who are already using a "k04"tune may get luckier.. but these do need dialing in with appropriate software and or MBC to clip the inherant boost spike they would otherwise do.. unchecked.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> I help where I can.
> 
> I know 18 are having overboost issues


And any one of that number can find their answer within this thread. 



The solution is proper ecu control.
The workaround is a manual boost controller in parallel.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> Gents:
> 
> You are buying a HYBRID K03 when you buy one of these..
> Its not a stock replacement unit without having other hardware/software to suit its greater flow/power characteristics. some folks who are already using a "k04"tune may get luckier.. but these do need dialing in with appropriate software and or MBC to clip the inherant boost spike they would otherwise do.. unchecked.


I agree 100%.... but it is a hybrid K04 not a KO3:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The guys in Europe would call the F4T fitment turbo a "K03 hybrid". They reserve "K04 hybrid" nomenclature for the types shaped like a K04-02x.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The guys in Europe would call the F4T fitment turbo a "K03 hybrid". They reserve "K04 hybrid" nomenclature for the types shaped like a K04-02x.


Ahh...gotcha


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> I agree 100%.... but it is a hybrid K04 not a KO3:thumbup:


ah yea..
Nomenclature difference.

As Doug says, to us (me) the F4T is a k03 hybrid (k03 fitment, k04+ performance) as opposed K04 which is what TT's have in K04-22,K04023 guise.. We do hybrids on these also, and they're k04 hybrids to us. Like Dougs F23 is to K04's although different specs both have similar end games


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> ah yea..
> Nomenclature difference.
> 
> As Doug says, to us (me) the F4T is a k03 hybrid (k03 fitment, k04+ performance) as opposed K04 which is what TT's have in K04-22,K04023 guise.. We do hybrids on these also, and they're k04 hybrids to us. Like Dougs F23 is to K04's although different specs both have similar end games


That makes perfect sense:thumbup:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

U obviously aren't getting this picture. The overboost is bein caused by a mechanical issue. Not ecu related. I personally put my wg to 5 psi and the ecu recognizes it and does not overboost. I move it back to 8 psi and it overboosts again. I personally prefer the 8 psi and run a mbc because the car doesn't have any issues set at 17 psi. I don't trust the turbo above that and would rather keep it reliable than to detonate it. It does not matter what software u run. If the wg and the ecu are in sync u will hold any pressure that he ecu wants. Stop blaming it on a software fault and take responsibility for not setting the wg properly. Furthermore where did u get ur magic 8 psi wg setting? Do u know how the ecu/n75 operate? And have u urself sat there ant messed with ur turbo on a running car? Btw I'm tightening my bolts on a weekly basis at this point. Hardened bolts on order along with .040 safety wire. Going to lockwire the bolts as I used to in the airwing. This topic is about overboost no nomenclature. and this thread has been filled with nothing but u ( doug ) saying it's not a hardware issue and blaming it on software. U should know what ur product does and how it as a whole works with the car.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> U obviously aren't getting this picture.


Actually, as far as you're concerned, yes, I most certainly get the picture, and I'm not alone on that. 

Oh, and speaking of pictures


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> U obviously aren't getting this picture. The overboost is bein caused by a mechanical issue. Not ecu related. I personally put my wg to 5 psi and the ecu recognizes it and does not overboost. I move it back to 8 psi and it overboosts again. I personally prefer the 8 psi and run a mbc because the car doesn't have any issues set at 17 psi. I don't trust the turbo above that and would rather keep it reliable than to detonate it. It does not matter what software u run. If the wg and the ecu are in sync u will hold any pressure that he ecu wants. Stop blaming it on a software fault and take responsibility for not setting the wg properly. Furthermore where did u get ur magic 8 psi wg setting? Do u know how the ecu/n75 operate? And have u urself sat there ant messed with ur turbo on a running car? Btw I'm tightening my bolts on a weekly basis at this point. Hardened bolts on order along with .040 safety wire. Going to lockwire the bolts as I used to in the airwing. This topic is about overboost no nomenclature. and this thread has been filled with nothing but u ( doug ) saying it's not a hardware issue and blaming it on software. U should know what ur product does and how it as a whole works with the car.



YOU just dont understand how this works do you... 

Apply stock ecu control controls (even remapped) onto a turbo which has a higher preloaded actuator, be it a hybrid or not, will make the thing over boost.

Stock actuator is 5psi... so working from there its far less likely to overboost.......... BUT given its a hybrid it will behave differently.

Software HAS to MATCH the hardware - END OF!


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> Btw I'm tightening my bolts on a weekly basis at this point. Hardened bolts on order along with .040 safety wire. Going to lockwire the bolts as I used to in the airwing. .


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

And for the record my Software matches my hardware and I still get overboost with my wastegate set to 5psi. It's funny how the software guys blame the hardware and then the hardware guys blame the software or they all blame the installer or owner of the car. THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOUR MUST RUN A MBC WITH THE FRANKENTURBO. If your not running a mbc with an FT and you don't overboost, you got very lucky! It should be told to people who buy the FT kit to go ahead and buy boostvalve cause your going to need it. I really don't see the need to sit here and bicker...all we want to do is help each other and give feed back to companies so they help us. It would make the install easier if guys were told to go ahead and purchase one. I was just on a thread to day where the guy was talking about some totally different stuff and then he just threw in "as soon as I can figure out how to get my new FT to stop boosting to 30psi I will be in good shape".


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> And for the record my Software matches my hardware and I still get overboost with my wastegate set to 5psi. It's funny how the software guys blame the hardware and then the hardware guys blame the software or they all blame the installer or owner of the car. THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOUR MUST RUN A MBC WITH THE FRANKENTURBO. If your not running a mbc with an FT and you don't overboost, you got very lucky! It should be told to people who buy the FT kit to go ahead and buy boostvalve cause your going to need it. I really don't see the need to sit here and bicker...all we want to do is help each other and give feed back to companies so they help us. It would make the install easier if guys were told to go ahead and purchase one. I was just on a thread to day where the guy was talking about some totally different stuff and then he just threw in "as soon as I can figure out how to get my new FT to stop boosting to 30psi I will be in good shape".


technical british term coming up - brace yourself..  

Bollox

How can I map cars with hybrids and deal with the overboost on N75 without mbc?

Sorry, but its not all hardware, its the mating of hardware to suitably tuned software

:thumbup:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

badger5 said:


> technical british term coming up - brace yourself..
> 
> Bollox
> 
> ...




Technical American Term coming up- brace yourself..:laugh:

WHATEVER!!

In america we deal with it how we can and thats with a mbc! I have software for a hybrid turbo and my car will overboost to 30psi! You should sell some tuning for hybrid turbos then! I have read about 1 or two people that don't overboost with proper software. I'm not finger pointing I am just solving the problem with a MBC. I feel my car overboosted for two reasons....1..my wastegate came from FT and wouldn't open until 20psi...2...the tune is asking for max boost from the onset which IMO will cause the turbo to overboost. You have looked at my logs and said the same thing. The point is that everyone blame shifts and until there is a badger tune going around people are going to be overboosting and will need a way to tame it. I am glad your able to get the tune right over there but here people are not. Let's not confuse people here Bill and lead them to believe that if they get say a Unitronic stage 2+ file for the hybrid FT that they will not need a MBC because they WILL and some would appreciate knowing that and getting it when they are buying the rest of their goodies.:thumbup::beer:

edit...I am more then willing to toss my car on the boat and come see you so I can get a proper tune:thumbup: and while I am there I can hunt down my two next ex-wives Lucy Pinder and Rosie Jones:laugh::thumbup:


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## iTech (Dec 29, 2008)

I find that with the k04 and the Frankenturbo over boost is always an issue. We have chosen a totally different path to correct the issue. 

I recently had a customer car that was a full APR k04 kit.(ko4-001) It ran like complete crap..overboost, lean sometimes, rich others.etc etc etc. I reflashed the car with Eurodye and worked with Chris to basically write a BT MAFless tune for it. Eliminated N249 and N112 and car is spot on the money. Boost was limited to around 16psi( due to car not having rods) by a simple map tweak. We are also using stock injectors @4 Bar. Seeing that the k04-001 and the frankenturbo are quite similar in basic specs this is an much better simpler option for most people. Within the next few weeks we will be doing the same thing with a full on FT kit but stepping up injectors a few sizes and dropping back to a 3 bar FPR.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Twopnt016v said:


> Technical American Term coming up- brace yourself..:laugh:
> 
> WHATEVER!!
> 
> ...



:thumbup: 
I am glad you took my post in the manner I intended... 

For the FT's and overboost, yea, 20psi preload is high, and not going to work with tunes for k04 cars... which also expect 5psi actuators on them.. MBC is the saver, and I have also used these to achieve the very same thing you are. Mapping hybrids on n75 is a pita.. clipping spikes and on k04-2x series hybrids, riding the edge of the surge line is not fun, took bloody ages, but was doable on n75 alone, and with much better boost hold than mbc's I had used previously (which seem to suffer boost slide as revs climbed-forge unos the one i use)

Your uni-tune is clearly not suitable for the FT... as the requested boost and duty cycles demonstrated.  

Hybrids can be made to work with software alone... but its not plug and play in my experience, so mail order maps without dyno and tuning or ability to tune (maestro aside) will be troublesome. Simple fix (band aid) being mbc of course.

Those who are spending the time on doing tunes for these will complement the setups nicely.
They dont have to be mafless... I see not reason why this would be a good thing on a small frame turbo where MAFs are readily available in suitable size.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

badger5 said:


> YOU just dont understand how this works do you...
> 
> Apply stock ecu control controls (even remapped) onto a turbo which has a higher preloaded actuator, be it a hybrid or not, will make the thing over boost.
> 
> ...


maybe you or doug or somebody could help us all out and tell us exactly what the correct software is to match the hardware we bought. we all seem to be searching for the magic answer and let me tell you it is not an MBC. i have been to three different tuners in my area that deal in different companies' software. i have confirmed with them that the install was correct. i am running APR ko4 software that is reworked for the FT. my car overboosts if i set my MBC above 17psi. i ran 24psi with a ko4 with no overboost problems at all. i dont see what the huge decrease in performance is due to. i know better than to run a "bigger turbo" without making software adjustments. i tried to research the software needs of this kit before i bought it. i saw that most people were running some type of stage 2 software. i also saw that doug says that this kit will work with stock software. so it seemed from the FT website that there were not really any software requirements to run this kit. now that everyone is having problems with their FTs its funny how there is such importance being placed on hardware matching software. it does make perfect sense. i believe that most people on here know that you cannot make drastic hardware changes without adjusting software. that is kind of tuning 101. however finding the combination that works is a somewhat harder thing to do in this situation. i think this is where everyones frustration is coming from. i think that all of us have spent countless hours and dollars chasing answers to this problem. if i knew of a remedy i would do it, no matter what the cost. i will not flush any more money away on this piece of crap. to blame it on installs or software in all of our cases is just BS. unfortunalely this is what most of us have been hearing. i am not looking to bash or fight with anyone. i would be embarassed to recommend this turbo kit to a friend. at this point i think anyone would be better off going with a well tuned ko4. it seems to be a much easier thing to accomplish. in my case i have lost hp going from a ko4 to a FT. does that make sense? also you can never get great performance from a turbo when running a MBC in parallel with the n75. how can that be helpful? its only a cover up for a symptom.


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Actually, as far as you're concerned, yes, I most certainly get the picture, and I'm not alone on that.
> 
> Oh, and speaking of pictures


in the interest of full disclosure, why dont you include a link to this forum on your website? on paper all of this looks great. where is the graph that shows all of the boost spikes and limp modes? they dont seem to be represented here.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

turbobeast said:


> in the interest of full disclosure, why dont you include a link to this forum on your website? on paper all of this looks great. where is the graph that shows all of the boost spikes and limp modes? they dont seem to be represented here.


 
something which is related to the software providers surely? 

ask them..... thats the underlaying issue majority of the time is it not?


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

turbobeast said:


> in the interest of full disclosure, why dont you include a link to this forum on your website? on paper all of this looks great. where is the graph that shows all of the boost spikes and limp modes? they dont seem to be represented here.


 Why should they need to be represented here? He's providing logs/graphs from cars running 3 different kinds of software with no issues of over boosting. FrankenTurbo simply provides the hardware, it is up to you to mate it with appropriate software and other well suited modifications.


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## hatetolovemydub (Oct 27, 2009)

Everybody bitches about Malone tuning, but I have never seen a spike above 23psi (N75 controlled and no mbc.) Not that this adds anything technical to this discussion other than the fact that we know spike can be controlled without a band aid mbc.

Sent from my PG06100


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

hatetolovemydub said:


> Everybody bitches about Malone tuning, but I have never seen a spike above 23psi (N75 controlled and no mbc.) Not that this adds anything technical to this discussion other than the fact that we know spike can be controlled without a band aid mbc.
> 
> Sent from my PG06100


 Mine did on the first tune (I was Malone's first FT customer, the first FT tune was a bit rough) but it was completely resolved in the second tune. I have not had any issues with overboost after that initial tune. I hit 23psi and it slowly tapers from there. 

In rare cases there may be an issue with the WG actuator (like Twopnt016v as he said his wasn't opening until 20psi) but the vast majority of the time it's a tuning issue. The N75 is more than capable of dealing this.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

hatetolovemydub said:


> Everybody bitches about Malone tuning, but I have never seen a spike above 23psi (N75 controlled and no mbc.) Not that this adds anything technical to this discussion other than the fact that we know spike can be controlled without a band aid mbc.
> 
> Sent from my PG06100


 im glad to see that a company is taking the time to tune your car properly. I'm also glad your not having problems like mny of us out here. i agree that the mbc is a bandaid and would love to hera from malone tuning on how they achieved their results. i find it interesting that one of the biggest tuning companies for dubbers. as for the respects to logs. i find it interesting because if you really want to take proper logs you would do a series of the same pulls chart them and compare them as a whole. comparing one good pull is useless when you have limp mode issues. also its good for proving that your product can perform but the face that it may perform for one pull then throw you into limp mode the next is quite ****ty. 

i brought the car to the track last week and ran 13.9 first run and 18 on the second and third. i found out that after heating the tires up i need to shut the car down to reset the ecu or it will go into limp. this all takes time and should not need to happen. 

all i can say is when your going down the track in limp mode you want to just drive it into a wall.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

I can tell you that at least one of those logs, the GIAC one, will always be close to the same. That log is from my car, and I have never had any issues with overboosting or limp mode. I am running a MBC, but I am perfectly fine with that.


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## Camride (Oct 16, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> im glad to see that a company is taking the time to tune your car properly. I'm also glad your not having problems like mny of us out here. i agree that the mbc is a bandaid and would love to hera from malone tuning on how they achieved their results. i find it interesting that one of the biggest tuning companies for dubbers. as for the respects to logs. i find it interesting because if you really want to take proper logs you would do a series of the same pulls chart them and compare them as a whole. comparing one good pull is useless when you have limp mode issues. also its good for proving that your product can perform but the face that it may perform for one pull then throw you into limp mode the next is quite ****ty.
> 
> i brought the car to the track last week and ran 13.9 first run and 18 on the second and third. i found out that after heating the tires up i need to shut the car down to reset the ecu or it will go into limp. this all takes time and should not need to happen.
> 
> all i can say is when your going down the track in limp mode you want to just drive it into a wall.


 I'm assuming that Malone takes out Limp mode, because I never hit it even when I had overboost issues on the first tune and hit 30psi+ (it was probably higher but my gauge only goes to 30, lol). 

That's a good first run though, I'm hoping that my A4 will be in the 13's when I'm all done.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> all i can say is when your going down the track in limp mode you want to just drive it into a wall.


 
when you get a decent tune to match the turbo, you will be a happy guy 
until then, you will continue to biatch away at the thing I think as you have done thus far


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## turbobeast (May 22, 2011)

badger5 said:


> when you get a decent tune to match the turbo, you will be a happy guy
> until then, you will continue to biatch away at the thing I think as you have done thus far


this thread is completely useless for anyone who is having the problems that we are. i have tuned a variety of different turbos on lots of cars. most of my experience is with vw's. i have never run into these problems with other turbos or software providers. i dont understand how this turbo reacts so much differently with regard to overboost and limp mode. as far as the "software needs to match the hardware" statement that you keep throwing out over and over, yeah we know. you are preaching to the choir. thanks a lot. the question is why do people with the same software as others who are successfully running the FT with no overboost problems, having such different results with the same set up? some explanation for this would be very helpful. until then i will continue to biatch about wasting money on a "hybrid", "high performance" turbo that performs worse than my old one.:thumbdown::facepalm:


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## WiKKiDTT (Aug 13, 2009)

No over boost here just solid every time. 

Malone tuning for the win!


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

turbobeast said:


> ...thanks a lot. the question is why do people with the same software as others who are successfully running the FT with no overboost problems, having such different results with the same set up? some explanation for this would be very helpful. until then i will continue to biatch about wasting money on a "hybrid", "high performance" turbo that performs worse than my old one.:thumbdown::facepalm:



and I bet the guys with issues are not running the same software/hardware at all when it comes down to it.

some variance on actuator setups, and the softwares are not the same, despite people sayings its a uni blah blah... Different ecu's, different cars.... they are not the same.


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