# Cut-away view of the V10 Turbo Diesel Phaeton Engine.



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

Found on the web. Photo is from the glass factory.










_Modified by Paldi at 9:08 PM 3-17-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Cut-away view of the Turbo Diesel Phaeton Engine. (Paldi)*

Here are some additional pictures of the same engine cutaway.
I don't know the exact name of the vehicle in the background, however, it was custom made in 1936 for the Emperor of Ethiopia, by the company that is the predecessor of the present day AUDI. It is a huge barge.
Michael
*Additional Photos of the Same V10 TDI Cutaway*
















_This is an interesting close-up of the top of the piston. The recess in the top of the piston helps the 'squirt' of diesel fuel to swirl around and mix with the air in the cylinder._


----------



## 2840 (Jul 9, 2003)

*V10 Phaeton*

This might have been exhausted and I missed it, but what about the V10Diesel in Phaeton in US? If so, how much as compared to the 12 and 8? Thanks


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (2840)*

Unfortunately, it is not sold in North America. In Europe, it is priced between the V8 and the W12.
Phaetons are divided (roughly) into two groups, light cars and heavy cars. The V10 TDI and the W12 are the heavies, the other three engines are the lights. The term refers to the actual weight of the vehicle, there is a weight range of 1001 pounds between the lightest and heaviest stock Phaeton.
Michael


----------



## 2840 (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

But will it be sold in US? If the price is between the 8 and 12 does that mean $80,000.00-90,000.00? Thanks


----------



## bobschneider (Oct 12, 2004)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

That's the first time I've ever heard my 2 1/2 ton V8 refered to as a "light" car.








Heck, it weighs more than the Beetle I had in college and the Honda I bought when I got out - combined!


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (bobschneider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobschneider* »_That's the first time I've ever heard my 2 1/2 ton V8 refered to as a "light" car.







Heck, it weighs more than the Beetle I had in college and the Honda I bought when I got out - combined!

Mine weighs 1,000 pounds more than my old 1994 Caddy Fleetwood, which was a foot longer and nearly 10 inches wider. I can't understand where all the weight is, the Phaeton sure feels a heck of a lot lighter than the Fleetwood.


----------



## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_
Mine weighs 1,000 pounds more than my old 1994 Caddy Fleetwood, which was a foot longer and nearly 10 inches wider. I can't understand where all the weight is, the Phaeton sure feels a heck of a lot lighter than the Fleetwood.

Notice how quite the Phaeton is. That is the weight in action.


----------



## phaetonfanatic (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (rmg2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rmg2* »_
Notice how quite the Phaeton is. That is the weight in action.









Rick, that must explain how I can execute a midnight run to the refrigerator without my wife hearing me...
V10: I have driven a Touareg with this motor, and it is amazing. What a freight train that thing is -- it just _pulls_. Diesel technology sure has come along way from the 70's, and if (when) that engine makes to NA Phaetons, I would consider purchasing one. My understanding (and I could be wrong) is that diesel fuel is being reformulated to meet '06 emission regulations nationally, and then diesel powered vehicles once again could be offered in all 50 states. So maybe '07?
But, compared to the Phaeton's V8, how would the diesel match up in terms of performance and economy? Similar performance with _slightly_ better fuel economy? Is the cost differential high enough to where you may not recoup the expense of purchase through fuel savings? That certainly wasn't the case with other TDI's, but look at the pricing on the V10 compared to the V8 Touareg...
Michael S.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (phaetonfanatic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaetonfanatic* »_But, compared to the Phaeton V8, how would the diesel match up in terms of performance and economy? Similar performance with _slightly_ better fuel economy? 

Hi Michael:
I am going to presume you are referring to the V10 TDI, and not the V6 TDI.
Compared to the V8 gasoline Phaeton, the V10 TDI way, way further ahead in terms of performance and power. It has *double *the torque of the V8, and it will rip the pavement right off the road surface if you floor it. If you are behind one on a cobblestone road, and the driver puts his or her foot into it, you have to dodge the flying cobblestones. In fact, it has so much torque, VW has to flat-rate the engine power output. It is the most powerful production engine offered in any car in Europe, so far as torque is concerned. 
When VW ranks the Phaetons on their websites and in their brochures in Europe, they always present the V10 as the 'top of the line' Phaeton, with the W12 in second place. The only advantage of the W12 is more horsepower, which is only useful at speeds between 150 and 180 MPH. From zero to 150 MPH, it's torque that matters, not HP.
The V10 TDI is also substantially less expensive to operate than the V8 gasoline engine. VW offered the V10 TDI in North America for a while this year in the Touareg, but they withdrew it due to some matter relating to interpretation of emission regulations. This seems pretty strange to me, because the V10 TDI meets the 'Euro 4' emission standard, which is the strictest emission standard in the world for diesels. It is possible that the engine cannot meet this same standard when using the lower quality (higher sulfur content) diesel fuel that is sold in North America.
Below are some pictures of the V10 TDI engine, in cutaway form. This engine cutaway is on display in the Transparent Factory in Dresden.
Michael
*V10 TDI as used in the Phaeton*
















*Details of variable turbine on turbocharger (there is one on each side of the engine)*
















*Oil Filler, Filter, and Cooler*








*Torque converter, transmission, detail of forward wheel drive mechanism*








*Shaft leading from transmission output to front wheel drive mechanism*


----------



## phaetonfanatic (Apr 30, 2005)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

Michael, 
Thanks for the great post. 
What an engine! As a Jetta TDI owner I am behind the "new" diesel technology all the way -- and I know from my driving experience in the Touareg V10 that it really does generate neck-snapping torque. It feels really cool! I would love to test drive a Phaeton V10 someday.
Do you know if there is any performance data from VW to compare the Phaeton V8 and the Phaeton V10? From my "seat of the pants" experience in the Touareg V10, it seemed like the performance was _near_ the Phaeton V8's -- maybe within .5 of a second or so to 60 mph. Beyond that I have no idea how the two measure up: 0-80, 0-100...How does the V10 change vehicle dynamics compared to the V8?
My real world fuel economy for long distance driving (800-1,000 miles) has been 22-23 mpg, and that is close to the posted highway mileage number for the V10 Touareg. Diesel fuel in SoCal is $2.56 a gallon -- premium gasoline $2.63.
The two vehicles weigh within 200 pounds of each other I think, so I am guessing the numbers would not change significantly in the Phaeton ...am I wrong? 
Any performance data you can provide would be interesting and very much appreciated.
Michael S.


----------



## 2840 (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

But what about price? What is the price in Europe of the 8, 10, and 12? How would that translate into USA if it comes to this country with the newly formulated diesel fuel? Thanks
By the way, with the V8, I am getting 23-24 highway with average speed of 64 mph. What would the 10 diesel get?


_Modified by 2840 at 7:17 PM 5-24-2005_


----------



## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

That diesel is a torque monster for sure.
I have no data as to the difference in mileage between the V10 Touregs or Phaeton, but, my guess is that in highway conditions, especially at higher speeds, the Phaeton will be somewhat better than the Toureg by dint of it's superior aerodynamics. Aside from a better cd, it also has less frontal area, so total drag is less. I also suspect the rolling resistance of the tires will be less too. In town, I doubt there would be much difference, although gearing may have an effect.
Rob


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

The coefficient of drag on a Phaeton is .31 when it lowers itself for better aerodynamics at higher speeds.


----------



## cctdi (Aug 11, 2004)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

I have been enjoying this engine for allmost a year( by June 3rd ). The V10 makes Touareg much lighter than the Allroad 4.2 in driving manner which is more than 1000LB less in curb weight than the Treg. If the V10 comes here in Pheaton body; I will surely switch, the SUV is the car of the past for me, the V10 got me the Touareg, a beautiful SUV indeed.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (phaetonfanatic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaetonfanatic* »_As a Jetta TDI owner I am behind the "new" diesel technology all the way...

Hey, me too. My last seven VW's have all been diesels. I have a gasoline engine in my Phaeton because that was all that was offered.
But - having seen the smaller V6 diesel Phaeton this week, I think I would be inclined to choose that engine over the V10 TDI for use in North America. Much better fuel economy, and very snappy performance as well.
I think comparing the V6 diesel and the V10 diesel is a bit like comparing the V8 gasoline engine to the W12 gasoline engine - sure, the bigger engine gives you more, but the smaller one is more than sufficient to begin with.
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (PanEuropean)*

You can count me in on a diesel when they start selling them in the US.
I have always been a BIG fan of diesel. I don't know why, I just like 'em.
Based on what I read on the forum, they have more torque and power so more the reason .


----------



## diesel king (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: V10 Phaeton (dcowan699)*

My closing line says it all!


----------



## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Let's keep our fingers crossed on the US diesel issue.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2008963
~PC


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

*Archival Note:*
Related post - Phaeton Diesel in US for 2006?


----------



## apper01 (Aug 14, 2010)

Hello Micheal,

could you rehost the pictures from this thread, only if you have it a mouse click away.

Rgds
Aart


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted. There are also some very interesting pictures of a dis-assembled turbocharger on the second page of this post: V10 Turbo(s) cutting out.

Michael


----------



## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> Photos re-hosted. There are also some very interesting pictures of a dis-assembled turbocharger on the second page of this post: V10 Turbo(s) cutting out.
> 
> Michael


Michael,

thank you sooooooooo much for these pics I never saw them before! It really helps in navigating the ancillary engine components!

Now if we only had that much space in the engine bay..........

Stu


----------



## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Wow, never saw this thread before -- thanks for re-hosting the pictures.

I've been in the fortunate position of comparing the V10 TDI vs. the V8, since we previously owned a 2004 V8 Touareg before trading it in on a 2006 V10 TDI Touareg (which we still own). And of course we're still the original owners of a 2004 V8 Phaeton.

Bottom line: The V10 TDI is about 25-30% more fuel efficient, and will let you spin all 4 wheels if you stomp on the gas at a stoplight. However the V8 is smoother and more refined, especially at idle, more in keeping with the refinement of the Phaeton.

I also worry about future repair costs, should our V10 TDI eventually need work on its turbos, etc. As these pictures show, it's far more complex than the V8. But for now (approaching 6 years of ownership in the Touareg), I'm still lovin' it.

- Dave


----------

