# Leaks



## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

We've had a number of threads on leaks, I just wanted to get a statistical count on how bad the problem is.
I left this open in case there is a category I might have missed.


_Modified by kpiskin at 10:04 AM 8-22-2007_


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## liquid stereo (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: Leaks (kpiskin)*

I've had my car since April and the only time I've experienced leaking was when the window wasn't closed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm a little curious to see what happens this winter. That being said, we've had some serious rain here in the Twin Cities and not a drop.

_Quote, originally posted by *kpiskin* »_We've had a number of threads on leaks, I just wanted to get a statistical count on how bad the problem is.
I left is open in case there is a category I might have missed.


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: Leaks (liquid stereo)*

My EOS leaks not through the seals, but rather through the A pillars. I've applied Krytox before. I was just tired of having to maintain the car too often and yes, I was paying too much money to have do that myself. At least that's my opinion.


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## Shaka (May 20, 2001)

*Re: Leaks (kpiskin)*

My vote: Minor leaking corrected by krytox
However that might not really be a very accurate answer. Although I did apply Krytox to the car once in my ownership, the leaks I've had have persissted but aren't really related to the seals, as noted in someone else's reply above.
Driving through a touchless car wash that uses high pressure sprayers, you will see a leak at the A-pillar where the two seals meet. Because this high pressure is not "real world" and only occurs in a car wash, the leak there is to be expected. Especially when the water is coming from a back-to-front motion which wouldn't normally happen in real life.
Beyond that I don't ever see leaks during the rain, or when driving. Like any convertible car, water may drip inside when you open the door if there is water resting on the seats. Joys of owning a 'vert and of a car with frameless windows. That is just how it goes.
My last thought on this is ... last winter my wife/I were in an apartment with an attached heated garage. It made it great for winter because most of the snow would melt off between trips off the Eos. This past April we moved into a house with a 1-car garage. While I may install a heater in the garage before winter, the car will definitely still regardless spend more time in the elements than ever before. Should be interesting to see how that works. We live in the snow belt and last year had record breaking snow fall.


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

I added a new category. I've seen a couple drops here and there but have not done anything about it. I will likely just point it out at my next service interval and get some Krytox for home use as well.


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (jgermuga)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jgermuga* »_I added a new category. I've seen a couple drops here and there but have not done anything about it. I will likely just point it out at my next service interval and get some Krytox for home use as well.

I have already voted, but the new category is what I should have selected if it was available.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Leaks (kpiskin)*

How do these polls work? Are they a vortex thing? I see over a hundred views to this post but only a dozen or so actually voted. Can the poll be set up so that anyone can vote not just registered users. We would get more meaningful data with a larger pool...


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: Leaks (solarflare)*

My view is that if there are other Eos owners out there why not get a login id. It is free and easy and one can be a part of the forum. In public I'm not the most outgoing person there is but being part of the forum makes me feel like I belong. I'm sure there are more people like me out there. Every time someone posts an Eos sighting, wouldn't it be nice if those people were on the forum to answer? Besides depending upon what forum you are looking at may require logging in just to read the posts or see pictures. And then there may be those who don't care and are just looking to see what others have to say or may be researching for a purchase. As for the polls it's best if a moderator explains the ins and outs.


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## griffsmom (May 25, 2007)

I voted for no leaks at all, but then again, it is summer in SoCal. I'm hoping my vote would not change once it our "rainy season" arrives in February-March.


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## okwei (Mar 14, 2007)

*Re: Leaks (kpiskin)*

My EOS leaks only when it's in car wash, a few drops from A pillars.
My car was made in sep. 2006, I bought in april 2007. It has been in snow at the dealer (-40C in canada). I got Krytox from the dealer, I applied it once when I got the car, but not because of any leaks.
I'm curious about the winter time as well, but I think there will be less chance of leaking in winter, since there will be no water but ice.


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: Leaks (okwei)*

*I still wish everybody that owns an Eos would put the date of manufacture from the drivers door jamb in their signature line here on the Vortex to see if problematic cars skew before/after specific build dates.* 



_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 1:00 AM 8-23-2007_


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## BigFoot-74205 (Jan 26, 2006)

Leaking only when I take my Eos to the car wash.


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## kpiskin (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: (BigFoot-74205)*

Well just as I've noticed in other car forums, car problems are amplified by people who are having reliability issues. From the poll, over 80% of the Eos owners so far are having no to negligible issues with their top leaking. 
However, 20% is a fairly large population for a particular car defect and represents a significant issue VW should look at. I'd say if it was less then 5% then maybe owners could be dealt with one on one. But in a situation like this typically either a TSB or recall would be issued and all owners' cars checked out and repaired at no cost. 
Obviously this poll is a small population of the actual owners, so I can't speak to what the standard deviation or sampling error would be.


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## Funmobile (Feb 19, 2007)

This was a HUGE worry of mine before I got the car, but it has been bone dry since day one. 
I'm soooo glad that I bought the EOS. I just passed 10k miles on the drive from Delaware to DC with the top down, and couldn't be happier.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (Funmobile)*

I've started noticing that after every rain storm my car's interior is incredibly humid the next day. My dealership has an outstanding request for assistance from VW to fix a part of the sunroof seal which is pinched on one side and physically separated on the other side. I did some investigating of my own today and found small puddles of water under the tire and in the passenger side roof well ( or whatever you call the spot under those little flaps that pop up when the roof is moving. It seems to be contained to the passenger side but I'm not sure where else the water has spread. I'm really at a loss for what I should do next. I don't have a garage, my dealership won't work on the car until they get a certified regional tech, and I have no idea how long this has been going on. Are leaks covered under the lemon law?


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (aflaedge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_Are leaks covered under the lemon law?

Yes, I'm sure they are. Leaks of this nature, where you have pools of standing water inside the car, are clearly unacceptable.


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (aflaedge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_Are leaks covered under the lemon law?

I believe each state defines what applies and how often something has to occur under a lemon law. I don't believe its a federal thing...someone correct me if I'm wrong.
this might be a good place to start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemon_law


_Modified by SoCalMan at 6:01 PM 8-27-2007_


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Leaks (okwei)*


_Quote, originally posted by *okwei* »_My EOS leaks only when it's in car wash, a few drops from A pillars.
My car was made in sep. 2006, I bought in april 2007. It has been in snow at the dealer (-40C in canada). I got Krytox from the dealer, I applied it once when I got the car, but not because of any leaks.
*I'm curious about the winter time as well, but I think there will be less chance of leaking in winter, since there will be no water but ice*.

There are a couple Canadian forum members that have driven the Eos in winter conditions. As far as I know, no serious difficulties.
One thing to really watch for is ice build up along the bottom window seal. Because the windows drop a few mm when you unlock the doors, you want to be sure the windows aren't frozen shut before unlocking/opening the door. Probably a good idea not to unlock the doors from a distance if weather conditions are such that freezing could be a problem.

Kevin


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: Leaks (kpiskin)*

Not quite sure how to vote-- I put "Leaking that kyrtox didn't fix"
For me, Krytox seemed to make it stop, but it has happened at least twice since then (and I have reapplied Krytox)
I get about 1 cup of water in the passenger's footwell if my Eos is outside during a very heavy rain. It runs down the A-pillar and front door jamb, and then in a stream onto my rubber Euro mats--YEA! 
Krytox has made it stop for a while, but I don't wash the car that often, my hose isn't that much pressure, and it never happens while wash. It only happens in heavy rain at a stop-- driving seems to make that water go elsewhere.
The reason why I didn't choose "Minor leaking corrected by Krytox" is that I have had to reapply Krytox several times to keep water out and it seems excessive. I could have not used enough, but the first time I put it on so heavy it dripped in a few places. I used it liberally, at about the same amount as Michael/PanEuropean did in the "How To" here, using about 1/2 bottle. I have mostly reapplied to places _that needed it_ since, but I have only had Eos for 8 months now, and have had to reapply about every 3mo. *to prevent minor leaking*-- not just for "optimum performance".
I actually _sought VW assistance the first time_. When I got the car back, they hadn't found anything, and they had written that I said "a couple teaspoons" water, rather than several tablespoons-- I should have just said "a cup" (don't use baking measurements with mechanics







). They ran water over it with a hose, and couldn't find a leak. They didn't know about Krytox until after I ordered it and showed them the pages in the manual. Now, I am *not spraying it with high pressure hoses*, but I experience leaks in *hard raining* situations. I'm not talking hurricances; NC often has heavy thunderstorms, even sudden, short lasting ones. No pressure sprayer required-- that is "normal" weather each year.
I think I will change my vote, but really it is "Leaks that Krytox banishes, but come back", but I hate to fracture the categories more. I think that maybe you should collected categories, distill them/rename them into a range that still covers all, and then re-survey. hmm...can you rename a survey choice and roll choices together? THAT would be a great tool for voting!!!
_edit: oops! it won't let me change my vote. oh well._
William


_Modified by kghia at 2:43 PM 8-28-2007_


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

Has anybody heard of a new "kit" to fix sunroof leaks/pinch protection? My dealership has been telling me that there is one in an effort to solve my now 2 month old problem, but they haven't offered any details. My thought is that they are just talking about krytox which I've already purchased and have been using every 4 months. It all sounds like a delay tactic to me since I've spoken to parts departments at two other dealerships and they haven't found any "kits". I've been asking them to get a regional tech in to diagnose the problem and propose a solution. Any thoughts?


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

I haven't heard of any kind of "kit", but I'm fortunate not to have any leaks, so I'm not exactly researching solutions.
There has been some discussion around "new and improved" seals, but I don't think that has been confirmed either.
Kevin


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (aflaedge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_Has anybody heard of a new "kit" to fix sunroof leaks/pinch protection? My dealership has been telling me that there is one in an effort to solve my now 2 month old problem, but they haven't offered any details. My thought is that they are just talking about krytox which I've already purchased and have been using every 4 months. It all sounds like a delay tactic to me since I've spoken to parts departments at two other dealerships and they haven't found any "kits". I've been asking them to get a regional tech in to diagnose the problem and propose a solution. Any thoughts?

I would get more aggressive in getting it resolved. As mentioned above, lemon laws vary by state, but I do know that some states require you give the dealer an opportunity to fix it 3 times and it they fail to do so, they must abide by the law. But I also seem to recal there was a timeframe involved. I think there is aslo a condition where if the car is in the shop for more than XXX number of days within 1 year, or something along these lines. 
So I would definitely find out what the rules are in your state and make every attempt to get to the point where you have the option to return the car. Perhpas your delaership will then get a little more aggressive about resolving your issue.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (jgermuga)*

I've got an appointment monday to sort this out. They told me just this week that my TWO month old issue of separating and pinching seals wasn't covered by VW. I think my calls to VW customer care finally pushed them to give me a straight answer rather than jerking me around with this kit business. However, in light of the discovery of water in several locations around the car they are going to look at it again. Whether or not my initial issue was a leak causing problem or just a cosmetic problem is moot since the evidence of leaking is definitely a warranty issue. Lemon laws in Virginia state that notice must be given to the factory (not the dealer, but the actual factory) that a warranty covered issue exists. If the letter is sent with 18 months of purchase and the issue is not fixed within 30 days of the notice then lemon laws apply and the factory has to buy back the vehicle. I may have to go through some sort of contract required arbitration phase or even retain a lawyer to take this all the way. The amount they refund is the total price minus a depreciation calculated by the amount of miles accrued since purchase.
Honestly, I think they are smart enough to fix this. I don't have faith in my dealership being able to fix it but VW has the smarts. We'll see what happens though since I'm not the "expert".


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (aflaedge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aflaedge* »_ They told me just this week that my TWO month old issue of separating and pinching seals wasn't covered by VW. 

I don't know about anyone else, but I am shocked and dismayed that they would say this. How could it *not* be a warranty issue?
Keep us posted and good luck.


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (SoCalMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCalMan* »_I don't know about anyone else, but I am shocked and dismayed that they would say this. How could it *not* be a warranty issue?

I think he's saying that just the fact that the seals are pinched is not a warranty issue, unless it can be shown that this causes a leak. It it leaks, it's a warranty issue.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: (aflaedge)*

Please see the TB posted here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2907445
Kevin


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (flubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flubber* »_
. It it leaks, it's a warranty issue.
 I agree flubber, and i am going to have them fix my A pillar leaks. Doug


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (just4fun)*

hmm...now I am really wondering what to do-- my leaks were ALWAYS on the passenger side *at the A-pillar*.
It is really more correct for me to say that the leaks happen occasionally, with application of Krytox between -- I don't know that the repeated Krytox made it go away, just as I haven't seen any tigers since I put it on. It would explain why the leaks come back at a hard rain (more often than I feel I should have to apply Krytox)
The problem is, when the dealer runs a hose over the car there is no leak, while heavy thunderstorms are a natural, repeating problem here which I cannot control (as I can choose to not use pressure washers).
I guess I will have to wait until next leak, and maybe suggest TB 61-07-04 Windshield Frame Seal Water Leak
William


_Modified by kghia at 10:23 PM 1-10-2008_


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (kghia)*

The word on my car is that they haven't been able to duplicate the leak. I guess this means that I'll take the car back and just check it after every rain. I know that it leaks because of the water I found in the trunk and around the roof mechanism, but if they can't duplicate it there isn't much that can be done I suppose.


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (kghia)*

kghia, I think i got my leaks fixed? both sides leaked on mine, the a pillar on the passenger side was the worst on mine too. I lubed mine up good with Krytox few wks ago and today i ran it through the car wash to try it and low and behold no leaks. So you might want to try doing that? get alot of lube on the ends where they butt together mostly on the gasket toward the front where the two meet. good luck Doug


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: Leaks (kpiskin)*

I don't think it's the A-pillars on mine. I've got some pictures of the Driver and Passenger side pockets or "wells" as I call em where the roof retracts on either side of the rear seats. The car was parked through the rain storm so it had to have come from the back half of the car to make it into these things. Somewhere from the sunroof back.








This was about half a cup of water, remember that the pocket slopes down towards the front and is a natural catch for water if there is a leak since it is all welded up.

This one right here about made me vomit when I discovered it this afternoon...








I stopped counting around 7 cups of water since I wasn't able to get full cups anymore. A few towels finished up the job. I want to bring the car in Monday but I think I'll wait till Wednesday so that I can take off from work and just stay there. The last time they had the car in they tested it for two days and found nothing... A few hours of rain and I get this. It wasn't even a big storm or anything. Perhaps the culprit was that they were focused on the front since thats the only place we could visibly see a gap in the seals.
Oh and another thing, in that second frame you can see the insulation for some wires on the right. One or two more cups and I would have had even bigger problems for sure.


_Modified by aflaedge at 4:47 PM 9-15-2007_


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## blueontheface (Aug 31, 2007)

Oh My God!!!! I'm sad for your car and a little bit worry about all that water!!! My eos will deliver in genuary...I hope that VW will fix every issues.
what is the year of production of your Eos?


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (blueontheface)*

Between the leaks and the mushy brakes, I'm feeling awfully depressed and having second thoughts as someone looking to buy an Eos.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

Don't feel down about the EOS. It is a great car! I for one have never experienced any mushy breaks and the leaks i'm having seem to be pretty atypical. I love this car and I think that as a first adopter I'm goin through a few growing pains. You shouldn't need to worry about this kinda stuff. I only post these pictures and my accounts so that the few people who have similar experiences can get it fixed that much easier and go back to enjoying their cars. 
Trust me, the EOS is awesome.


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## aflaedge (Jun 27, 2006)

*Re: (blueontheface)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blueontheface* »_what is the year of production of your Eos?

I purchased mine late august 2006. One of the first off the line for the US let alone the state of Virginia. As an early adopter I knew that there would be a few problems out of the gates, but that VW would fix them for the newer cars and take care of me. You should have nothing to worry about as you can see from the forum. There really haven't been all that many complaints of big leaks and it seems that all of the widespread problems like the window roll up/pinch and the bass kick have been solved.


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## kghia (Nov 16, 2006)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*

OK, to be honest, I have had _some leaks_ but *not any *(yet) *that would convince me not to buy an Eos*
The rare leaks have only been in *heavy* storms, and only about a cup (which was _totally contained_ by my Euro mats)
I may have them actually *glue* my seals in place, per the recent TB, but all complaints aside, I am *not returning my Eos* (unless they pry it out of my cold hands (_or offer a Karmann VW with better curves as a replacement_)
My leaks have been very minor, although not quite fixed by Krytox, and I would definitely recommend the Eos to others.
I'm not sure if 2008 models are as good as 2007 or not (run to your dealer for a _special_), but I still love my Eos-- *get one!!!!*
Don't let my _complaints_ spoil your decision-- I do want every _tiny_ complaint answered, but I an *not* giving up-- this is a very fun car!
In fact, my wife complained when I kept hounding her to test-drive the test-chipping -- until she drove it for about 5 seconds...at that point she actually said "I am *so glad* you made me drive this-- you shold definitely get this program". As soon as we can afford it, she is completely in favor (she might even insist on driving *more!*)
My leaks, while significant to me, would *not* damage the car before I took care of them-- I would still buy the Eos (unless a curvier version arrived







)
Every leak is an important issue, but others have sadly had worse leaks than my Eos.
William


_Modified by kghia at 4:21 PM 9-16-2007_


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## minnvw (Oct 16, 2006)

*Re: (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_kghia, I think i got my leaks fixed? both sides leaked on mine, the a pillar on the passenger side was the worst on mine too. I lubed mine up good with Krytox few wks ago and today i ran it through the car wash to try it and low and behold no leaks. So you might want to try doing that? get alot of lube on the ends where they butt together mostly on the gasket toward the front where the two meet. good luck Doug
 that was a week ago, today i ran the car through a different car wash , and it leaked major both A pillars had a good stream flowing down, I think i was just too optomistic? I cant take a chance on them leaking this winter , the water frezze up in those joinsts, id have a heck of a mess, http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Im going to take it to the dealer, not the one that told me id just have to live with it, they all leak," thats not accecptable Doug


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (minnvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *minnvw* »_  not the one that told me id just have to live with it, they all leak," thats not accecptable Doug

Certainly not! I can't believe a dealer would say that! I think VWoA would be very interested in that comment! They were extremely interested in my last service appointment.
My Eos does not leak at all and I look for that regularly. Last Krytoxed in March! So "they all" do not leak! Definitely run from that dealer!


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

I haven't noticed any leaks yuet, which surprises me with the other troubles I have had.
But I have noticed a design flaw. I have noticed that the water seems to run straight along the top of the windshield/roof seam and then fall right into the cabin as soon as the window drops down to open the car. Of course the mat does not reach the part of the floor that the water drops on either. So it all spills on the carpet.


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