# Actual performance of the US spec S3



## larkin (Sep 18, 2014)

I'm having difficulties finding reviews or personal accounts of the actual US spec S3. Audi pulled a little bit of a fast one, in my opinion, with inviting reviewers from all the major magazines and tubes to Monetary to drive the car before there was a real final US spec vehicle ready. Now, when I search reviews, there's nothing to be found newer than 3 months, way before the car was released state side. When I look for descriptions of performance in the forums, most say, "I'm still waiting for the 500 mile mark to really rev her up".

Why do I think it's important to get impressions of the released vehicle? Because I've driven it and find the performance lacking, as does an audi dealer associate I spoke with. There is pretty serious turbo lag and even up in the meat of the power band (2k-5k) something feels lacking, even compared to the A3. When you read reviews or watch the youtube reviews, the reviewers are not critical of this which tells me their car was fine but that the stateside ECU has been hobbled perhaps due to a combination of EPA and wanting to keep S4 buyers motivated. 

Why do I care? Because I want to buy this car. But there is an elephant in the room with regard to performance and I can't bring my self to seal the deal until it's addressed by the community. Will an APR flash fix this? Possibly, but Audi should jump in with a solution that won't void the powertrain warranty.


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

What are you driving now and thus comparing it to? The one I drove had very little lag and plenty of torque and power. More than I need in fact and I'm coming from a manual G37S with 330hp. Might be a good idea to try test driving another one, might just have been a dud since the general consensus on these forums that I have seen is that Audi is actually sandbagging and there is way more performance in the engine than they are reporting.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

I agree about 'lag' down low. Like, despite the published peak torque rpm figures, it just feels like it doesn't want to respond to throttle until maybe 2500 rpm? I'm comparing it to my mk6 GLI, so it should at least feel as responsive, I think, even down low. The salesmen I talked to agreed with me that it felt underpowered down low.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Any of these new TSIs are pretty impressive. I haven't driven the S3 yet but I did some sessions in Audi's A3 Cabriolet they brought to VIR and managed 122 MPH on the front straight, with the top down, with brakes that felt like they had already had 120,000 miles on them (who knows how many other people had dogged this thing before me). I was backing off way early and felt the car had a pretty impressive engine even in stock trim on a heavy car.

An S3 sedan, I feel, should be quite the car.


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## cgpublic (Aug 8, 2014)

*This*



Xanlith said:


> Might be a good idea to try test driving another one, might just have been a dud since the general consensus on these forums that I have seen is that Audi is actually sandbagging and there is way more performance in the engine than they are reporting.


Agreed, and I'm coming out of a stock 2011 E90 335xi w/N55 @300hp+. Granted, there is a significant difference at low RPMs between the ZF 6-speed and the A3 S-Tronic, but nothing that Sport mode and a little intelligence behind the wheel will not fix. I went in the opposite direction of many of the posters, and picked up a bare bones 2.0T Premium w/CW for 32K, 20K less than the 52K for the BMW with a 56K sticker, and could not be happier. After 2K, the car is light, nimble, responsive, 26 MPG+ overall, cockpit is a pleasure. Do I miss the hydraulic steering of the BMW? Sure, but you can't buy a new BMW with hydraulic steering.

Quite frankly, if the APR tune is everything they say it is, why would you spend anything more?*

*I do wish there was a Premium Plus with Sport somewhere in the US when I purchased my car, but there wasn't, and that's a first world problem for sure.


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## 2.0TurboA3 (Dec 21, 2001)

I thought I read something that said the transmission when shifted from park or maybe it was reverse it goes straight to second and then as you move forward it drops back to first. Which could add to the lag feeling, no? Sport mode seems to up the idle which gets it into boost quicker, at least from my limited driving time on mine.


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## rabbitgtibbar (Apr 29, 2002)

Where are you located? Testing driving the car in Vail, CO will feel different than test driving it in Portland, ME.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

2.0TurboA3 said:


> I thought I read something that said the transmission when shifted from park or maybe it was reverse it goes straight to second and then as you move forward it drops back to first. Which could add to the lag feeling, no? Sport mode seems to up the idle which gets it into boost quicker, at least from my limited driving time on mine.


My experience was in-gear already, rolling onto the power AFTER the transmission was fully engaged, in manual mode, in 'dynamic' ride select mode(except engine noise... I guess if there are exhaust baffles, that could be contributing.. But I've been assuming 'engine noise' simply disables the soundaktor.)


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## silvrevo (Mar 11, 2010)

NOT True Rabbit!

Last time I looked at a map Maine was way above Colorado !!!!!

So Maine would have the less performance due to being higher up and thinner air!


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## Xanlith (Apr 19, 2014)

cgpublic said:


> Quite frankly, if the APR tune is everything they say it is, why would you spend anything more?*


Well while you can do an APR tune on the engine, the suspension in an A3 (even with Sport) is much different than the suspension in the S3 and I couldn't deal with how loosy goosy the A3 was in turns. I don't think you can get Nappa leather in an A3 either. Even if you could get Nappa, I figured by the time I tuned the engine and suspension I'd be up in S3 pricing land anyway.


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## Tony_S3 (Sep 9, 2014)

silvrevo said:


> NOT True Rabbit!
> 
> Last time I looked at a map Maine was way above Colorado !!!!!
> 
> So Maine would have the less performance due to being higher up and thinner air!


Maine isn't higher than Colorado. Not even close. What map were you looking at?

Colorado is over twice as high as Maine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_elevation


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## rabbitgtibbar (Apr 29, 2002)

silvrevo said:


> NOT True Rabbit!
> 
> Last time I looked at a map Maine was way above Colorado !!!!!
> 
> So Maine would have the less performance due to being higher up and thinner air!


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, but


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## Orangetree (May 11, 2014)

silvrevo said:


> NOT True Rabbit!
> 
> Last time I looked at a map Maine was way above Colorado !!!!!
> 
> So Maine would have the less performance due to being higher up and thinner air!



Say what?


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## steve111b (Jun 2, 2011)

There is a discussion on a UK forum about drive select not staying in dynamic on a restart. The display says it is dynamic, but the throttle response could be limited somehow. Maybe someone can try cycling through drive select and selecting dynamic, drive the car and then compare after a restart.


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## Nice N Sticky (May 2, 2014)

I can't help but laugh at the turbo lag. I'm so used to a big turbo DSM that 3500rpm to me would be extremely fast spooling turbo lol


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

I too am let down by the performance. When I first drove the A3, I was impressed. When I first drove the S3, it didn't feel nearly as quick as the numbers and reviews would indicate.


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## Heretic:GTI (Feb 17, 2011)

I haven't driven a s3 yet, so I don't have first hand experience. 
But coming from my mk6 gti to the r, the gti "felt" faster. However, the r was faster, except for take off feeling. Everyone that rode in the r said it didn't "feel" fast until they actually watched the speedo. The power was so much smoother than the gti/a3 instant power/spool/torque. Maybe that's what you're feeling, or not feeling?

When we get one in I'll take it for a ride and compare to my stage 1 a3. 

I liked the high end pull in the r but everyday driving wasn't quite as fun as the gti's low end torque. I wanted a s3, but since audi couldn't equip it with the options I wanted, and I couldn't wait, I got the a3. And with stage 1 I'm more than happy with what I got...

Drive them back to back, maybe you prefer instant torque more than high end power...


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

Both the A3 and the S3 have a 2.0T with the identical displacement, bore and stroke.

Since the S3 has a bigger turbo, it's natural to expect more lag, other things being the same.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Comparison-(GLI-GTI-MK6-and-MK7-R-and-others)

I got the turbo size from this thread by Arin from APR; I am assuming that the A3 has the same turbo as the GTI, and that the S3 has the same turbo as the Golf R.


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## Frosty_spl (Aug 4, 2003)

I'm waiting on a M235 vs S3 review. Can't decide on which one I want. 

I did get to Autox a 228i this weekend. The turbo spooled quickly, and the brakes were strong. Fun little car. Felt faster than a reflashed GTI.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Frosty_spl said:


> I'm waiting on a M235 vs S3 review. Can't decide on which one I want.
> 
> I did get to Autox a 228i this weekend. The turbo spooled quickly, and the brakes were strong. Fun little car. Felt faster than a reflashed GTI.


Not us-spec, but...
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/driveplus10/104957008


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## ablake (Aug 28, 2014)

*My experience with the US spec S3*

I took delivery of my S3 just under 2 weeks ago and I immediately noticed a lag in the response when starting from a stop. I have a 2009 A4 with the base 2.0 engine and that car has always jumped off the line in a way that I attribute to the transmission. It is that jump that you can't quite get from a manual. With the S3, you get a delay unlike what is in the A4 and I suspect that it is actually coming from the dual clutch system (not turbo lag). If you put the car in S (instead of D) it is much better, and if you really punch the gas pedal it is also quicker to react. I would also say that the car is learning and it seems to be getting better over time. Based on the fact that it varies depending upon the settings in the car, I think Audi could probably change the settings if they want to, but I don't know how much might be actually a direct result of the dual clutch system.

In general, despite this lag, if you are worried about the performance of the S3, don't be. It is unbelievable fast and fun. The dual clutch is flawless in accelerating quickly after you get going and the car is really really quick. 

I got the all season tires (on the 18 inch rims) instead of the summer tires and they are definitely not quite as good as the rest of the performance on the car so I recommend the summer tires if you either don't need snows or if you are up switching to snows in the winter.

If I have time this weekend I can try to post a video of the car accelerating so that people see it for themselves. Mildly annoying thus far, but it should not be a deal breaker for anyone.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

I've never driven the S3 so I'm essentially just speaking out of my you know what here. If I'm correct, I don't think the US spec S3's come with the multi-port injection that the euro spec ones get. Could this be the reason why there is less low end torque/more lag? This would also explain why the US customers are noticing this while the reviews (mostly done on euro spec cars) don't indicate this. Again, I'm just spit-balling here.

On the other hand like some have said, it could just be the programming on the DSG. When you have so many different driving modes, this is one of the side effects I guess.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

DaLeadBull said:


> I've never driven the S3 so I'm essentially just speaking out of my you know what here. If I'm correct, I don't think the US spec S3's come with the multi-port injection that the euro spec ones get. Could this be the reason why there is less low end torque/more lag? This would also explain why the US customers are noticing this while the reviews (mostly done on euro spec cars) don't indicate this. Again, I'm just spit-balling here.
> 
> On the other hand like some have said, it could just be the programming on the DSG. When you have so many different driving modes, this is one of the side effects I guess.


I'm pretty sure this isn't the case. The powerpoint slide that everyone bases this speculation on is about production of ea888 gen 3 engines built in Mexico for the us market. AWD MQB cars are not (currently) produced in Mexico, so I would assume the engines weren't either. That being said - I haven't seen any confirmation either way. All it should take is someone who knows what an injector looks like taking off the engine cover of an S3... Unless they're really buried beneath the intake manifold.

Also, in manual mode, while already at speed, dsg programming really shouldn't effect throttle response. Is it possible it's an engine programming difference for US emissions? That sounds plausible.


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## 3MPG (Feb 7, 2013)

Sorry but 300hp on a 2.0T means bigger turbo means bigger lag.


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

DaLeadBull said:


> I've never driven the S3 so I'm essentially just speaking out of my you know what here. If I'm correct, I don't think the US spec S3's come with the multi-port injection that the euro spec ones get. Could this be the reason why there is less low end torque/more lag? This would also explain why the US customers are noticing this while the reviews (mostly done on euro spec cars) don't indicate this. Again, I'm just spit-balling here.
> 
> On the other hand like some have said, it could just be the programming on the DSG. When you have so many different driving modes, this is one of the side effects I guess.


US spec S3's do not have MPI. But MPI is only active in partial load situations and during start up. It was incorporated to help meet the new Euro 6 emission standards. Besides cold start emissions it has secondary benefits such as fuel economy improvement and the 'ol carbon build up issue. In partial throttle situations it "may" be helping mitigate the sluggish feeling. But once you apply high load, like during brisk acceleration, the indirect injection system (MPI) is turned off and all fueling needs are meet using the direct injection system. So if it still feels "laggy" on the US version during heavier acceleration events it has nothing to do with the lack of MPI.

On a side note, the Audi Drive Select does have the ability to control throttle tip in for the drive by wire system. It may be that on the US model the throttle mapping is not optimal. Has anyone tried something like going into individual mode in Drive Select and just changing engine/drive to dynamic to see if it makes a difference?


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Bamm1 said:


> US spec S3's do not have MPI.


Do you have a reference for that? I've been searching high and low for one, and haven't found it.


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## ablake (Aug 28, 2014)

The phenomenon that I'm experiencing is not a turbo lag issue (there is a tiny bit, but that is not what is as noticeable to me as the throttle response). The initial throttle response is slower on my S3 than it is on my 2009 A4 with the 2.0 liter 211 horsepower engine. It is just the first split second when you hit the gas, so I think it has to be something related either to how Audi programmed the response to the throttle, or something to do with how the dual clutch system works. Now maybe they intentionally program a slight delay in the full engagement of the clutch to somehow allow the engine to spool up a tiny bit to get the turbo going before allowing you to fully engage the transmission, but I don't know enough about how these systems work to say if that is even remotely possible.

I'm still playing with the settings on the car to see if I can dial it in more and it is changing based on my driving habits (I'm also trying not to hammer on the car too much as the engine is breaking in) so I don't have a final conclusion on whether it can be avoided.


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## ablake (Aug 28, 2014)

The S3 and primary parts are built in Germany and Hungary (not Mexico). Transmission is from Germany and over 50% of the parts were from Hungary (according to the window sticker)


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

ablake said:


> The phenomenon that I'm experiencing is not a turbo lag issue (there is a tiny bit, but that is not what is as noticeable to me as the throttle response). The initial throttle response is slower on my S3 than it is on my 2009 A4 with the 2.0 liter 211 horsepower engine. It is just the first split second when you hit the gas, so I think it has to be something related either to how Audi programmed the response to the throttle, or something to do with how the dual clutch system works. Now maybe they intentionally program a slight delay in the full engagement of the clutch to somehow allow the engine to spool up a tiny bit to get the turbo going before allowing you to fully engage the transmission, but I don't know enough about how these systems work to say if that is even remotely possible.
> 
> I'm still playing with the settings on the car to see if I can dial it in more and it is changing based on my driving habits (I'm also trying not to hammer on the car too much as the engine is breaking in) so I don't have a final conclusion on whether it can be avoided.


Are you referring to when you are starting from a stop? If so, that may also be the hill hold control feature holding the brakes a moment longer than you'd like it to.


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## ablake (Aug 28, 2014)

Yes - I'm referring to when I start from a stop. It doesn't feel like the hill hold though.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

ablake said:


> Yes - I'm referring to when I start from a stop. It doesn't feel like the hill hold though.


I asked because I don't recall it feeling any different from a stop than the DSG in my GLI did originally.. but I used VCDS to switch hill hold to 'early' release (options were early/normal/late) in the GLI because it annoyed me. ;P


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

ablake said:


> The phenomenon that I'm experiencing is not a turbo lag issue (there is a tiny bit, but that is not what is as noticeable to me as the throttle response). The initial throttle response is slower on my S3 than it is on my 2009 A4 with the 2.0 liter 211 horsepower engine. It is just the first split second when you hit the gas, so I think it has to be something related either to how Audi programmed the response to the throttle, or something to do with how the dual clutch system works. Now maybe they intentionally program a slight delay in the full engagement of the clutch to somehow allow the engine to spool up a tiny bit to get the turbo going before allowing you to fully engage the transmission, but I don't know enough about how these systems work to say if that is even remotely possible.
> 
> I'm still playing with the settings on the car to see if I can dial it in more and it is changing based on my driving habits (I'm also trying not to hammer on the car too much as the engine is breaking in) so I don't have a final conclusion on whether it can be avoided.


The throttle does seem less immediate than on my old 2006 A3 2.0T, so I think you are onto something here.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

Bamm1 said:


> On a side note, the Audi Drive Select does have the ability to control throttle tip in for the drive by wire system. It may be that on the US model the throttle mapping is not optimal. Has anyone tried something like going into individual mode in Drive Select and just changing engine/drive to dynamic to see if it makes a difference?


On the A3 or S3, is this just same as putting transmission into S or does it really affect throttle mapping?


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## larkin (Sep 18, 2014)

ablake is describing the same phenomenon that prompted me to start this thread. It was going up an on ramp from a red light. It was from a stand still and was also the only time during the test drive that I decided to punch it. The result was less response to my flooring it than I experienced in an A3 2.0.


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

A3_yuppie said:


> On the A3 or S3, is this just same as putting transmission into S or does it really affect throttle mapping?


You need to have Audi Drive Select. The S3 has it and the A3 with the sport package also has it. You can control transmission shift programing, steering feel, throttle response and if you have Mag Ride on the S3, also the suspension settings.


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## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

Bamm1 said:


> You need to have Audi Drive Select. The S3 has it and the A3 with the sport package also has it. You can control transmission shift programing, steering feel, throttle response and if you have Mag Ride on the S3, also the suspension settings.


I do have Drive Select and when I put it in Dynamic it also puts the DSG in S, which I don't like. Then when I put the DSG back in D I am not sure I can tell a difference re: the throttle mapping.


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## codewhore (Oct 22, 2006)

I concur with some of the other posters that the car is disappointing in the low RPM. I had high hopes for this engine and reading the specs and reviews it sounded amazing. Primarily I was weighing this against the Mk VI R I used to have which I felt had no power below ~3000 RPM. I test drove an S3 on Monday and I was focusing on the low RPM aspect of the engine and ultimately came away a bit disappointed. Once the revs are above ~2500 the car is great and like others have said it is going faster than it feels. At the end of the day it comes down to how the car *feels *driving and I'm not certain that this car *feels *right for me...the jury is still in deliberation.


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

A3_yuppie said:


> I do have Drive Select and when I put it in Dynamic it also puts the DSG in S, which I don't like. Then when I put the DSG back in D I am not sure I can tell a difference re: the throttle mapping.


Can you go into individual mode using the MMI interface and just change the engine/drive setting to dynamic? Leave everything else in auto (normal) and see if it helps?


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

codewhore said:


> I concur with some of the other posters that the car is disappointing in the low RPM. I had high hopes for this engine and reading the specs and reviews it sounded amazing. Primarily I was weighing this against the Mk VI R I used to have which I felt had no power below ~3000 RPM. I test drove an S3 on Monday and I was focusing on the low RPM aspect of the engine and ultimately came away a bit disappointed. Once the revs are above ~2500 the car is great and like others have said it is going faster than it feels. At the end of the day it comes down to how the car *feels *driving and I'm not certain that this car *feels *right for me...the jury is still in deliberation.


That was kind of my takeaway also. Something just didn't feel right. I was expecting long, strong pulls from low rpm but it wasn't really delivering it. But, it was a short drive and a foreign vehicle so there may be more satisfaction to be had after spending better time with the engine.


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## Bamm1 (Oct 17, 2013)

araemo said:


> Do you have a reference for that? I've been searching high and low for one, and haven't found it.


Here you go:



[email protected] said:


> Here's some info. Check out the engine code. This is the same engine code as the US spec S3 with no MPI.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

Hi all. I've been lurking on this site as I'm considering a S3, but I believe the first poster hit the nail on the head and no one really addressed his concerns. Now that people have had their cars for a few months, any updated thoughts on power delivery? I'm coming from a 2009 wrx and when I test drove a S3 my reaction was, meh. The Audi is obviously an upgrade in many ways, but in terms of performance, it honestly felt slower than my wrx. I was disappointed to say the least as I was dead set on buying one. I remain interested in the car as it's an improvement over the wrx in so many other ways, just thought it would feel faster based on the euro spec reviews. I guess we have one motortrend us spec review and it ain't all that pretty. I guess my suspicions were confirmed when it trapped effectively the same as my 2009 wrx. Thoughts?


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## OLOARS (Aug 16, 2014)

Rearviewevo said:


> Hi all. I've been lurking on this site as I'm considering a S3, but I believe the first poster hit the nail on the head and no one really addressed his concerns. Now that people have had their cars for a few months, any updated thoughts on power delivery? I'm coming from a 2009 wrx and when I test drove a S3 my reaction was, meh. The Audi is obviously an upgrade in many ways, but in terms of performance, it honestly felt slower than my wrx. I was disappointed to say the least as I was dead set on buying one. I remain interested in the car as it's an improvement over the wrx in so many other ways, just thought it would feel faster based on the euro spec reviews. I guess we have one motortrend us spec review and it ain't all that pretty. I guess my suspicions were confirmed when it trapped effectively the same as my 2009 wrx. Thoughts?


Haven't got an S3 yet but do have a 14 WRX and low end sucks until 3k plus rpm. It's a turbo and until they come on boost they are pretty gutless. And S3 doesn't have ring land failures, spun bearings and oiling problems on the track like WRX. Plus WRX mileage sucks.  Mine is my wife's daily and staying bone stock with warranty.

Peter


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

OLOARS said:


> Haven't got an S3 yet but do have a 14 WRX and low end sucks until 3k plus rpm. It's a turbo and until they come on boost they are pretty gutless. And S3 doesn't have ring land failures, spun bearings and oiling problems on the track like WRX. Plus WRX mileage sucks.  Mine is my wife's daily and staying bone stock with warranty.
> 
> Peter


Agreed and Agreed. My 09 had a short block replacement from a spun bearing. No mods and I actually took care of it except for 2 track days. No power under 2,800 rpm either. 

My point isn't to bash the s3. I really really like the car. I guess I like everything about it except the pull which is frankly just weaker than I expected.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Bamm1 said:


> Here you go:


Thanks for the update, I haven't been following that thread, but the mention of 'dual injection' in the official VW site (and yes, the golf R page is live now.. and it still says dual injection) made me really wonder. But arin's debunking isn't really surprising.. VW is known for having errors all over their site. 



OLOARS said:


> Rearviewevo said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all. I've been lurking on this site as I'm considering a S3, but I believe the first poster hit the nail on the head and no one really addressed his concerns. Now that people have had their cars for a few months, any updated thoughts on power delivery? I'm coming from a 2009 wrx and when I test drove a S3 my reaction was, meh. The Audi is obviously an upgrade in many ways, but in terms of performance, it honestly felt slower than my wrx. I was disappointed to say the least as I was dead set on buying one. I remain interested in the car as it's an improvement over the wrx in so many other ways, just thought it would feel faster based on the euro spec reviews. I guess we have one motortrend us spec review and it ain't all that pretty. I guess my suspicions were confirmed when it trapped effectively the same as my 2009 wrx. Thoughts?
> ...


So, I have test driven 3 S3s, and my opinion is that the first two must have had something wrong with them. I test drove the 3rd one directly after driving TO the dealer in my stage 1 GLI. And it felt just as responsive, and faster, than the GLI does. Not reassuring from a 'will the one I buy be a lemon too?' standpoint, but reassuring that they CAN be as fast as they're supposed to be. Maybe the dealer just hadn't put premium gas in the first two?

The first two definitely had a lack of throttle response at low RPMs.. just wasn't as engaging as the GLI is (especially tuned.. but it was that responsive stock too, just less powerful).

Edit: Correction, I've test driven an S3 3 times.. but the first two were the same physical car. So, yeah.. I think it was a lemon. Another dealer is hounding me to come in and test drive theirs, so maybe I should take them up on it.


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

araemo said:


> Thanks for the update, I haven't been following that thread, but the mention of 'dual injection' in the official VW site (and yes, the golf R page is live now.. and it still says dual injection) made me really wonder. But arin's debunking isn't really surprising.. VW is known for having errors all over their site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So I have a 50/50 shot at a fast car? Hmm. Something still doesn't smell right.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Dyno time. I was told by a shop that torque numbers may not be available due to the electrical signal not being easy to "tap". Anyone know if this is true?


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Rearviewevo said:


> So I have a 50/50 shot at a fast car? Hmm. Something still doesn't smell right.


Well, a number of people who have theirs have said theirs are fine too, so I don't think it's 50/50. 2 is a very small sample size, but I am pretty sure they were not behaving the same.



Chimera said:


> Dyno time. I was told by a shop that torque numbers may not be available due to the electrical signal not being easy to "tap". Anyone know if this is true?


Wut? Sounds fishy, I'm not sure what electrical signal they need, but you can get a TON of info from the obd2 port if you have the right software. And torque is a straight up measurement of force applied, which is what the dyno ACTUALLY measures.. so you would always get a torque #.. but to map it against RPM requires hooking up to OBD2 to get the current RPM.. and then once you have torque and rpm, you can calculate HP. And any generic OBD2 reader can get you current RPM. So... yeah, sounds fishy to me.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

Friend of mine who has had lots of fast Audis (S6, V10 R8) and a Stage 2+ Golf R said he was really impressed with the S3's power. Said it felt better than a stock Golf R (MK6) but not quite as fast as a 2+ R.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

So I did a quick 'for the hell of it' run with my friend who has a Revo stage 2 mk6 GTI and I got ahead of him, the front of his car hung around right at my rear quarter panel. I was still a little hesitant with it being a new car and it was an awkward start because we didn't plan on gunning it at first, so take it with a grain of salt.


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## AMD IS THE BEST (Mar 15, 2004)

jrwamp said:


> So I did a quick 'for the hell of it' run with my friend who has a Revo stage 2 mk6 GTI and I got ahead of him, the front of his car hung around right at my rear quarter panel. I was still a little hesitant with it being a new car and it was an awkward start because we didn't plan on gunning it at first, so take it with a grain of salt.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


A Stage 2 MK6 GTI will trap in the range of 101-105ish. Not terrible for a stock S3 but I do recall seeing a review of one running 108 trap speed... was a euro spec car though I'm pretty sure.


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

AMD IS THE BEST said:


> A Stage 2 MK6 GTI will trap in the range of 101-105ish. Not terrible for a stock S3 but I do recall seeing a review of one running 108 trap speed... was a euro spec car though I'm pretty sure.



My personal view is that the S3 needs to be trapping AT LEAST 105mph consistently to justify not only its price, but how it positions itself in the market. 101-102mph is just unacceptable nowadays given where the competition is. 

I'm not saying 101-102mph isn't plenty quick for daily driving, but its something a s-line A3 should be doing. Not a "s3" with red brake calipers, 19 inch wheels and quad exhaust.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

AMD IS THE BEST said:


> A Stage 2 MK6 GTI will trap in the range of 101-105ish. Not terrible for a stock S3 but I do recall seeing a review of one running 108 trap speed... was a euro spec car though I'm pretty sure.


I'm sure my run isn't good evidence, I'd like some more controlled conditions...at the very least both of us knowing we're taking off when the light turns green. :laugh: 

*on a closed course*


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## AMD IS THE BEST (Mar 15, 2004)

jrwamp said:


> I'm sure my run isn't good evidence, I'd like some more controlled conditions...at the very least both of us knowing we're taking off when the light turns green. :laugh:
> 
> *on a closed course*


For sure. Though typically a roll race is a pretty good indication of what kind of trap speeds a car will see. Obviously the S3 will ET a Stage 2 GTI but trap will be close (by the sounds of it).


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

JRwamp, thanks for trying to provide some "real world" evidence though. Helpful coming form a current owner.


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## AMD IS THE BEST (Mar 15, 2004)

Rearviewevo said:


> JRwamp, thanks for trying to provide some "real world" evidence though. Helpful coming form a current owner.


+1!


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## Tony_S3 (Sep 9, 2014)

Coming from an EVO X with 296 dynoed awhp, my S3 feels plenty fast to me, especially down low. 90 degree stop and go intersections I can get the front wheels to chirp easy(Something that wasn't as easy to do with the EVO, But that's probably because the EVO seems to have a better AWD system than my S3) 

I'm still waiting to put some miles on it lol! And I haven't taken it past 5k rpms, but I'm happy with the power down low. Even in low speed (20mph-35mph), high gear (3rd, 4th gear) situations the power is right there. Maybe I got a factory special but my S3 feels fast as [email protected]#&. MyS3 so far feels as fast as my modified Evo X MR. I wasn't satisfied with MY EVO's power when it was stock. That's not the case with my S3.


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## gtitx1 (Oct 6, 2014)

This thread is silly. A bunch of speculation. The S3 does not have high PEAK torque but makes it along a big band. Hell most stg1 gtis have higher peak torque but are a lot slowr.

As far as low end, I don't know what people are talking about. This car is a rocket off the line. If you do floor it from the line, there is definitely some spooling/slipping going on to prevent wheelspin, but after a few milliseconds, it all links up and pulls like hell. Its just a different car that you need to get used to how to drive to get the most out of it. But all this 50% are lemons talk is plain stupid. This car may be new to the us but it isnt new.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

gtitx1 said:


> This thread is silly. A bunch of speculation. The S3 does not have high PEAK torque but makes it along a big band. Hell most stg1 gtis have higher peak torque but are a lot slowr.
> 
> As far as low end, I don't know what people are talking about. This car is a rocket off the line. If you do floor it from the line, there is definitely some spooling/slipping going on to prevent wheelspin, but after a few milliseconds, it all links up and pulls like hell. Its just a different car that you need to get used to how to drive to get the most out of it. But all this 50% are lemons talk is plain stupid. This car may be new to the us but it isnt new.


No one said 50% are lemons. I said I'd rove two cars and 1 didn't drive as well as the other. Extrapolating 50% from 2 cars would be stupid. But the thread was because of a number of people saying the same thing about sluggish throttle response in low rpms.

I think either some cars had problems, or a software update fixed it. But that's just speculation on my part.


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

araemo said:


> No one said 50% are lemons. I said I'd rove two cars and 1 didn't drive as well as the other. Extrapolating 50% from 2 cars would be stupid. But the thread was because of a number of people saying the same thing about sluggish throttle response in low rpm
> I think either some cars had problems, or a software update fixed it. But that's just speculation on my part.


I said 50% are lemons and it's an indisputable fact until you can prove otherwise. 

I ended up ordering a s3. I'm still curious to see real word trap speeds but it wasn't a deal breaker for me.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Rearviewevo said:


> I said 50% are lemons and it's an indisputable fact until you can prove otherwise.


No, it really isn't. If the two cars I drove were the only two in existence, sure. But that isn't how statistics work. (Contrary to very popular belief. I provided an anecdote, not real data. And the rest of this thread is still just a collection of anecdotes, not rising to any statistically significant sample size.)


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## larkin (Sep 18, 2014)

Plenty of policy is created based on a few anecdotes. Enjoy your S3. Hope it's just a matter of petrol.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

larkin said:


> Plenty of policy is created based on a few anecdotes. Enjoy your S3. Hope it's just a matter of petrol.


Doesn't make it right.  But yeah, won't stop me from getting one either, I'd just hate to be someone that had bought one of the 'off' ones. That's the kind of thing that's probably hard to get an official diagnosis on and get fixed.


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## Tony_S3 (Sep 9, 2014)

You sure you guys aren't putting in regular unleaded gas in the car? Sounds like it.


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## Penti (Nov 29, 2014)

Rearviewevo said:


> Agreed and Agreed. My 09 had a short block replacement from a spun bearing. No mods and I actually took care of it except for 2 track days. No power under 2,800 rpm either.
> 
> My point isn't to bash the s3. I really really like the car. I guess I like everything about it except the pull which is frankly just weaker than I expected.


Picking up my S3 tomorrow, also coming from an '09 WRX (Which coincidently, also suffered from a spun bearing early on).


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## Rearviewevo (Nov 19, 2014)

Penti said:


> Picking up my S3 tomorrow, also coming from an '09 WRX (Which coincidently, also suffered from a spun bearing early on).


Congrats on the new S3. Yes, 2009 was an especially bad year for the WRX. Seems like everyone had a spun bearing with the 2009. Its seems like they had a very aggressive tune from the factory that year even though the power numbers were 
Officially the same in subsequent years. 

Please let me know how your S3 feels power wise compared to your wrx.


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