# Cylinder 1 misfire because of damged/bad lifter?



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

Hello everyone, 

For the last couple of weeks i have been getting random misfires that started with a bad camshaft adjustment valve (n205) I replaced this part but my misfires continued. Its always Cylinder 1 that misfires and it seems to happen at lower RPM or idle. Odd thing is I drive the car for a while or drive it hard and it disappears. Till it comes back 2 days later. I have tried moving coil packs around to see if it was a bad pack but that hasn't done anything, i don't think its a vacuum problem because there isn't any fluttering from my boost gauge and i get a consistent idle at -22. 

I talked to my mechanic today he looked briefly at the car, I explained my problems and he came up with a very bizarre answer. He thought maybe when I originally had my camshaft (rev. A) replaced at 35000 Km. (i am at 95,000km right now) that maybe one of the lifters was damaged from the camshaft problem and they never noticed/replaced it. Looking at my service sheet from my dealer there is no mention of lifters. But to be honest i don't really think this is the case. 

I would think if i had a damaged lifter i would have noticed something by now. Its been almost 4 years and 60,000 km since. Also wouldn't be causing misfires all the time? not just at idle/low rpm? 

I am going to take the car for a second opinion with another mechanic, to be honest i think my misfires are from carbon buildup but i am not 100% sure. 

Any ideas would be helpful! 

Thanks in advance.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

tdotA3mike said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> For the last couple of weeks i have been getting random misfires that started with a bad camshaft adjustment valve (n205) I replaced this part but my misfires continued. Its always Cylinder 1 that misfires and it seems to happen at lower RPM or idle. Odd thing is I drive the car for a while or drive it hard and it disappears. Till it comes back 2 days later. I have tried moving coil packs around to see if it was a bad pack but that hasn't done anything, i don't think its a vacuum problem because there isn't any fluttering from my boost gauge and i get a consistent idle at -22.
> 
> ...


 I've had misfires/engine shudder at idle for almost all the life of my engine...I also had the A cam but changed to the S3 cams instead of the B one.I've done several swaps since then and never did the lifter TSB just cause i was being cheap.I was always sorry i didn't cause the misfire never got away even after a complete head rebuild (with the same lifters).Now i am getting ready to do the Schricks and i have a small box of 16 new lifters waiting to be installed.Doing that i will also check if my Ferrea shims were installed as they should have been.I AM NOT MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN.

Bad thing is even though VW says you should change the exhaust side only, i NEVER want to have to repeat the swap again, and since my lifters were probably "mixed" during the rebuild, it's better to be safe than sorry.

Lifter "might" be another of the many ****ty parts this engine has from the factory.The thing is the lifters aren't really cheap, and we have 16 of them :/

If i were you i would change them just to get it off your mind.Even i cannot be certain my misfire isn't coming from something other than the lifters, but i do want to have it in my mind as something i "could have done but once again...didn't"....


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> I've had misfires/engine shudder at idle for almost all the life of my engine...I also had the A cam but changed to the S3 cams instead of the B one.I've done several swaps since then and never did the lifter TSB just cause i was being cheap.I was always sorry i didn't cause the misfire never got away even after a complete head rebuild (with the same lifters).Now i am getting ready to do the Schricks and i have a small box of 16 new lifters waiting to be installed.Doing that i will also check if my Ferrea shims were installed as they should have been.I AM NOT MAKING THE SAME MISTAKE AGAIN.
> 
> Bad thing is even though VW says you should change the exhaust side only, i NEVER want to have to repeat the swap again, and since my lifters were probably "mixed" during the rebuild, it's better to be safe than sorry.
> 
> ...


 Interesting I hope its not the lifters, when you have your misfires how long do they tend to last? mine have been all over the board, sometimes its when the car is idling, most times its at low speeds but it usually seems to go away pretty quickly almost like bad fuel or something. Then it runs normally for a few days or so.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

tdotA3mike said:


> Interesting I hope its not the lifters, when you have your misfires how long do they tend to last? mine have been all over the board, sometimes its when the car is idling, most times its at low speeds but it usually seems to go away pretty quickly almost like bad fuel or something. Then it runs normally for a few days or so.


 Yes that is exactly what i thought also, that it was "bad gas" cause the car has its days.

Some days it will work like a champ and others it will rattle and shake like a mofo.

Misfires also display a rhythmic pattern with breaks between them, like "bam..bam..bam.......bam...bam"
short of like the car is misfiring when one cylinder is set to fire.They happen almost constantly when cold starting, disappear and then happen again even when in working temperature.

Thing is they don't all "register" by the knock sensors, and i can't really tell if that has to do with decreased sensitivity of the sensors when on low rpm.

Another theory was that it is a bad MAF, but i've decided to do the lifters and then worry about it....


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

You said you swapped around the coil packs, but did you do the same for the plugs? Just brainstorming here. 

Recently I had a coil pack go bad. 65K miles on the odo. It started with a random misfire at idle after the engine got warm enough to go into closed loop mode. I would feel it only at idle. Then it got worse. I have an APR Stage I and max boost is 20 PSI (6MT). Anything over 15 PSI would result in massive misfires. I knew I was losing one cylinder completely. I did not have Vag-Com but it was pretty evident that one cylinder was dropping out. The CEL was flashing during these conditions and eventually stayed on. 

I replaced the plugs and the problem got better, but not solved. Then it slowly started getting worse again. I think the new plugs were just a little easier to fire, and thus partially masked the bad coil. I ordered new coils from 1stVWParts, less than $16/ea. Installed them and the problem was completely fixed. 

Took my car in for recall service the other day and the CEL was still on. I told them I knew about it and explained the previous problem. The tech sheet I got back said it was a cylinder 1 misfire, sporadic. Tech recommended replacing the plugs and BG intake cleaning service. LOL, I said no thanks I already fixed it- just didn't have a way short of disconnecting the battery to turn the CEL off (yes I know it will eventually turn itself off after the fault is corrected, but it takes a while). 

VW has had a long history of coil pack problems ever since they went to coil-on-plug. It's fairly cheap to replace them- almost a maintenance item.


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## CarSwapper (Feb 25, 2003)

r u serious $16 there is two 2.0 coils one is $295 and one is 16$. Wow that's insane.


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice guys appreciate it! 

UPDATE: So last Friday after coming back from the mechanic i decided to dump some fuel injector cleaner into the car to see if it would stop these sporadic misfires, Just grasping at straws i thought. But after a few misfires on Saturday they have completely disappeared and haven't come back yet. The car is running like a champ so i am thinking Carbon buildup was the culprit and hoping that it will stay at bay till i clean out the valves when i do the timing belt. *knocks on wood* will keep everyone posted


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

tdotA3mike said:


> Thanks for all the advice guys appreciate it!
> 
> UPDATE: So last Friday after coming back from the mechanic i decided to dump some fuel injector cleaner into the car to see if it would stop these sporadic misfires, Just grasping at straws i thought. But after a few misfires on Saturday they have completely disappeared and haven't come back yet. The car is running like a champ so i am thinking Carbon buildup was the culprit and hoping that it will stay at bay till i clean out the valves when i do the timing belt. *knocks on wood* will keep everyone posted


 Hate to rain on your parade but i wish it were that simple....

Injector cleaner just helps a bit with carbon deposits on the injector tip, but i really doubt that is a major issue, especially since there injectors spray at 130 bar, and there isn't any "deposit" that can hold up to that....So most probably the injection path is already..."clean".

The valves on the other hand never see fuel, so no matter how many buckets of cleaner you throw at the engine...the valves need MANUAL cleaning...

The misfire will probably return sooner or later....


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## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> Hate to rain on your parade but i wish it were that simple....
> 
> Injector cleaner just helps a bit with carbon deposits on the injector tip, but i really doubt that is a major issue, especially since there injectors spray at 130 bar, and there isn't any "deposit" that can hold up to that....So most probably the injection path is already..."clean".
> 
> ...


 oh i know the FSI is a DI engine, I am fully aware the problem will come back at one point, like i said i plan on getting the valves cleaned out when the timing belt gets changed in like 10k KM. 

Like i said i thought i was grasping at straws with the injector cleaner since i understood if the valves were caked this would do nothing, but i had a bottle lying around so i threw it in there. Ever since no misfires could it be unrelated? sure it most likely is. But like you said these cars can misfire for any number of reasons. All i know is i wasn't getting through a day or two without rough misfires for a week+. Put the cleaner in and haven't had one since. So who knows what has changed in the engine.


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