# rSAP phones (European Vehicles) [TOC]



## Pinson15sixfromtheleft (Aug 30, 2008)

*rSAP phones*

I'm fresh back from Dresden with my new car, and now need to procure a handset to match the rSAP preparation I've paid for. Getting hold of a list of compatible handsets is not easy. "most Nokia's" is too simplistic and "Try Wikipedia" doesn't sound authoritative. Besides it only found "Revolutionary Socialist Party." Has anyone out there a recommendation to offer me? I usually like folding hansdets so that I can't make random calls accidentally when the phone gets packed away in my golf bag. (yes it happens! I regularly receive calls from across the globe from people who have sat on their phone which has then found the top name from their directory.) Or can anyone point me to an authoritative list?








Best wishes to all
Alan


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## IrishPhaeton (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*

Alan
I have the rSAP kit and use the boring Nokia 6230i. It does integrate fully and works well with the Phaeton kit, (other than the voice activation which is a source of great amusement to passengers).
I have been intending to get something a bit more flexible as a handset and had also searched the web but nothing useful was forthcoming.
I have had some communication with VW on the documentation on the rSAP / Voice activation (there is none!) and they are to post me the new documentation very soon.
If I get to try a few phones I will update you.
Regards
Hugh


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## Faszination (Aug 18, 2007)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*

Alan
Unfortunately the whole rSAP thing seems to be a bit of a dead end as there are only a limited number of Nokia phones that support it and any sort of Windows PDA will pair but won't do anything else.
Take a look at these threads:-
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3885240
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2619786
Shame really as it looked like a good idea. In mine I have a separate SIM in the RSAP holder and when in the car forward all calls to this number. Not ideal but it suits me.
Cheers
Ian


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## IrishPhaeton (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Faszination)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Faszination* »_Alan
In mine I have a separate SIM in the RSAP holder and when in the car forward all calls to this number. 
Ian

Ian
Am I missing something! In my Nov 2007 car (Facelift version) there is no sim holder in the car: Nothing phsyical to connect to any phone, just the Bluetooth and software to duplicate the Paired phone sim and import the phone book. The Nokia displays "Paired SIM mode" or something like that when in the car. As I understand it rSAP is a mechanism for the car phone to temporarily duplicate the mobile SIM?


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## Faszination (Aug 18, 2007)

*Re: rSAP phones (IrishPhaeton)*

Yes rSAP is a Nokia technology that allows a phone to clone the identity from another phone via Bluetooth. Problem is no other manufacturer has taken this up and even Nokia seem patchy in their support for it.
You can however put a SIM into the unit by doing the following:-
Remove the handset and holder by pushing the small button at the base of the unit on the drivers side. When you have pushed this button the whole unit slides forward and can be removed.
Remove the rSAP module in a similar manner and turn it over. You will find a small flap that slides off and underneath is a slot for a SIM.
Insert SIM and reinstall.
When the unit has restarted go into Settings and change Bluetooth Profile to Local SIM mode and et voila.
This may have changed from my March 07 (manufactured Dec 06) although I doubt it.
Cheers
Ian


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## IrishPhaeton (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Faszination)*

Ian
I think something may have changed... my car has no handset of any shape or form that I have noticed.... In my previous stone age 2005 Phaeton there was a Nokia (non bt) handset in the storage console that took a sim card. All I have in this one are a few 1£ and 1€ coins...
Anyhow this is a side issue. The real question is can a higher technology phone (Nokia N95/N96) work well with the Phaeton rSAP?
Just found this link that answers some questions.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3885240
Regards
Hugh


_Modified by IrishPhaeton at 12:39 PM 9-2-2008_


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (IrishPhaeton)*

Aristoteles wrote this about his bluetooth
I had the same problem with my Nokia because it had the 'wrong type of Bluetooth'. I was kindly given a list of compatible European phones by the excellent dealership (Robinsons Norwich) which I would be glad to scan and email to anyone interested (I would need your direct email address).
As it happens I was due a free phone upgrade from my service provider and picked one on the Phaeton list and after a quick visit to the dealer the system is paired. And what an absolute boon the Phaeton Bluetooth system is.
The Phaeton phone list includes Siemens, Motorola, Samsung, Blackberry and Ericsson models, as well as Nokia: 37 models in all.

Alternatively, you can ask your own dealership for the list, which is produced by VW Germany (how good is your Deutsch?).


_Modified by plastech at 8:37 PM 9-2-2008_


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pinson15sixfromtheleft* »_I'm fresh back from Dresden 
Best wishes to all
Alan

Hi Allan,
I Was in Dresden last Friday.
Have you enabled IM on you browser
Tony 


_Modified by plastech at 7:25 AM 9-3-2008_


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## Pinson15sixfromtheleft (Aug 30, 2008)

*Re: rSAP phones (IrishPhaeton)*

Ok, thinking a bit harder... The Wikipedia suggestion came from Germany. So why did I try Wiki EN? In Wiki DE I found http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSAP
Does this look like the list I'm looking for? Anybody any good at Deutsch?
Thank you everybody for your take on the problem
Best wishes
Alan


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*

SAP has the advantage that in the interior of the vehicle no GSM radiation of the mobile phone goes out. Further the vehicle transmitter is substantially stronger and more dependable in high speeds. Moreover no second SIM card must be used for the car telephone more. 
Not confused become should the SIM-Access-profile with the so-called hand-Free-profile, that is builds in in the predominant majority the free intercom, so for example in all Bluetooth free intercoms of BMW as well as that of Audi (s. and). Here the antenna of the mobile phone is used in the telephoning with Bluetooth, what is to be valued as unfavorable regarding the reception characteristics and the electromagnetic radiation. BMW and Audi offer therefore so-called Snap for current mobile phones-in-Adapter, which connect the telephone to the vehicle antenna and load also the rechargeable battery. 
In the SAP, it goes in primarily therefore that network operator access data are used on the SIM card by one of other telephone, in this case the car telephone,, around itself in the mobile phone network book. The Bluetooth specification permits nevertheless the transmission of every any APDU of the SIM, therefore Adress- and telephone data can be selected by the car telephone for example also without problem and can be represented in the display. 
A label other common for SIM-Access-profiles is also rSAP (Remote-SIM-Access-Profile). Herewith there is also the distinction between client and server whereby server is as a rule the mobile phone with the SIM card and client the free intercom of the vehicle. As a large advantage of rSAP vis-à-vis HFP, the speaking times longer possible based on the clearly slighter load the rechargeable battery are to be looked at. 
Technically interesting is that the SIM interface, that is normally directly in the mobile phone and leads only a slight tension of 1.8 V in streaming of some µA, can be extended by means of the SAP virtually over Bluetooth to a distance up to 100 ms (according to Bluetooth range). This fact makes the SAP also interesting for all uses, whose hardware cannot be placed out of space reasons there, where that (the user accessible) SIM-cards-on push is.


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (plastech)*

wif001
I've been searching for a new phone for the last year with touch screen and rsap. today i got the new palm treo pro for a test and can report the rsap works perfectly with my passat. good phone too.happy days. hope this helps.


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pinson15sixfromtheleft* »_I'm fresh back from Dresden with my new car, and now need to procure a handset to match the rSAP preparation I've paid for. Getting hold of a list of compatible handsets is not easy. "most Nokia's" is too simplistic and "Try Wikipedia" doesn't sound authoritative. Besides it only found "Revolutionary Socialist Party." Has anyone out there a recommendation to offer me? I usually like folding hansdets so that I can't make random calls accidentally when the phone gets packed away in my golf bag. (yes it happens! I regularly receive calls from across the globe from people who have sat on their phone which has then found the top name from their directory.) Or can anyone point me to an authoritative list?








Best wishes to all
Alan

Have you found a solution to your search?
regards,
J


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## Pinson15sixfromtheleft (Aug 30, 2008)

*Re: rSAP phones (Realist42)*

Thanks.
I have procured myself the Nokia 2630 which works a treat. The list I found was in the German Wikipedia site (see my post of 3 September above). Thanks to Jens in Dresden for suggesting Wikipedia.
The 2630 will however only be a stop-gap. My Vodafone contract expires in December, when I will be inviting competition from all and sundry for something snazzier.... Come to think of it, what snazzier do I need. Define "need"!
Rgds
Alan http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*

I am going to use a Nokia 8800 Sirocco Edition
Looks good and you can't touch the button by mistake.
http://www.nokia.co.uk/A4252031


_Modified by plastech at 10:29 AM 9-16-2008_


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pinson15sixfromtheleft* »_Thanks.
I have procured myself the Nokia 2630 which works a treat. The list I found was in the German Wikipedia site (see my post of 3 September above). Thanks to Jens in Dresden for suggesting Wikipedia.
The 2630 will however only be a stop-gap. My Vodafone contract expires in December, when I will be inviting competition from all and sundry for something snazzier.... Come to think of it, what snazzier do I need. Define "need"!
Rgds
Alan http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Well, it all depends on what you need... the Nokia 'E' series devices is what I have used, and they all work without fail if you want a 'smart phone' - i.e. a phone you can stick other software on... 
if that is not you ticket then something along the lines of a 6500 or a 6600 slide perhaps... 
Any mid tier and up Nokia phone will work with out fail, and most of the chap ones (as you have proven) 
I am currently using a E71, which I like a lot... 
Rgds
J


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## sergiommms (Oct 17, 2008)

Hi all
Yesterday I got my Passat CC from the dealer, and to my relative surprise, none of my mobiles are compatible with the BT installation... actually I heard them speaking about NOKIA so many times, I was kind of tipped off about the compatibility issue... so I´m not that disappointed...
Anyway, I´m just writing in to share that the German VW website has documentation about the rSAP/BT/compatible mobiles, right here:
http://www.volkswagen-zubehoer...=de&L=
Just select your model, and you should be presented with another page, with actual links to the available docs for/concerning it.
Nice to know there are non-Nokia compatible phones out there! 
Regards,
SMMMS


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## IrishPhaeton (Jul 21, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones: Nokia E51 works correctly*

Just for those with the rSAP bluetooth kit ( e.g. 2007/2008 European Phaeton) I can confirm that the Nokia E51 appears to work with the Phaeton in the same way as the Nokia 6230i which I think many people were previously using.


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones: Nokia E51 works correctly (IrishPhaeton)*

Hi Ed,
Some more reading for you.


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## crypto711 (Jun 4, 2009)

*Re: rSAP phones (Pinson15sixfromtheleft)*

I managed to get the attached list from the VW dealership in Leeds. Hope it helps.
Nokia 3109c, 3110c, 5310XM, 6021, 6151, 6230, 6230i, 6233, 6234, 6300, 6500c, 6500s,	6810, 6820, 6822, E50, E61, E61i, E90, 8800, 9300, 9500, N78, N82
Siemens SK65, S68, S65, S75, SP65


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: rSAP phones (crypto711)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crypto711* »_I managed to get the attached list from the VW dealership in Leeds. Hope it helps.
Nokia 3109c, 3110c, 5310XM, 6021, 6151, 6230, 6230i, 6233, 6234, 6300, 6500c, 6500s,	6810, 6820, 6822, E50, E61, E61i, E90, 8800, 9300, 9500, N78, N82
Siemens SK65, S68, S65, S75, SP65

All Nokia E-Series and N-Series phone will work without any issues, this phones like the E75 and the N97, just as the old E51...
Most of, if not all, S40 phone that have bluetooth will happily do rSAP. 
Additionally will the Blackberry Storm, Blackberry Bold and the Blackberry Curve 8900 all also do rSAP quite happily.
rgds
Johan


_Modified by Realist42 at 3:55 AM 6-5-2009_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: rSAP phones (Realist42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Realist42* »_Additionally the Blackberry Storm... does rSAP quite happily.

That is a good point. I picked up a Blackberry Storm when I was in Switzerland a few weeks ago (to replace my existing BB 8800) and I was quite surprised to find that it does support rSAP. It appears that RIM, the manufacturer of the Blackberry phone, is licencing this technology from Nokia. That is an encouraging sign - perhaps rSAP is not dead yet.
So, if I ever get time, I might become interested in investigating a rSAP retrofit on my 2004. I had no luck at all with the Bluetooth handsfree retrofit using the VW controller for that.
Michael


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: rSAP phones (PanEuropean)*

I have had two bits of good news, firstly my Phaeton is ready for collection on Thursday this week. Secondly it actually has factory fit Bluetooth (Which I hoped for) but wasnt listed in the the cars pre reg spec.
I thought it would have as it had several other options that cost considerably more but most people would find less desirable, anyway this has brought me to compatability of the Factory Fit Bluetooth system with my mobile.
I have an N97 is it too much to hope this will work with an 09 Phaeton, is RSAP still supported and where can I get an up to date compatability list ? I found this but its German and doesnt seem to have many Nokia Handsets :
http://www.volkswagen-zubehoer...f.pdf
Someone above seems to suggest N series phones including the N97 will work which would be brilliant and a nice unexpected bonus !


_Modified by alera at 8:39 AM 1-12-2010_


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## glacken (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: rSAP phones (alera)*

Do not forget your Phaeton is really a Bentley.
Just go on the Bentley UK web site and there you will find a list of all the phones that will work with the rSAP and many more that will not. 
Because the site is for Bentley owners pictures of the phones are provided.
The system is really great and when set up all that is reqiured is to press the telephone button on the steering wheel and tell the car who to ring.
You can also use nick names etc for the numbers you call.
Buy a car charger lead for your phone (6GBP or so) and plug it in the box between the front seats. It will always be on and always charged.
You can name the actual phone so that when you start the car it says that it has connected " " to your telephone provider, O2, BT etc.


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: rSAP phones (alera)*

As long as we are talking about Nokia phones, the main determining factor is the phone's "operating system". As far as I know, all "Series 60" based phones support rSAP. That includes all E and N series phones. I would be very surprised if you'd have any problems with N97.
Jouko


_Modified by jkuisma at 11:37 AM 1-12-2010_


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: rSAP phones (jkuisma)*

Great thanks for the info fingers crossed then. How difficult is it to pair the phone with the car and do you have to complete every time you use it ? or is it setup once and then the car picks the phone up whenever you get in (Providing bluetooth is switched on the phone obviously)
Any idea what the part number is for the charging lead ? 
Also just looking here guy saying he had problems with RSAP on an a8 (probably using the same vag bluetooth module) with N series mobiles has anyone actually got these working with the Phaeton ?
http://audiforum.us/multimedia....html
UPDATE
It seems you need a contacts manager installed on the n series phones to get it working with rsap in vw cars but of course there isnt a version currently available for the n97...
http://discussions.nokia.co.uk...14267
I just read on a German board people having major problems getting the n97 to work witht he Phaeton. Why is nothing ever easy !
I believe the Nokia contacts manager available here for the N96 will alllow contacts to be downloaded to the Phaeton from the N97, I have installed it and it seems to work, fingers crossed ! 


_Modified by alera at 2:46 PM 1-12-2010_


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## glacken (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: rSAP phones (alera)*

The car charger lead is the Universal one sold by Tesco and fits a number of makes and models of phones.
Once paired the car connects the phone every time both are switched on.
Also you can have a number of phones paired with the car.
It connects the one in the car and switched on.
Take some time to record your voice commands and enjoy a fantastic in car phone system.
Glacken.


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

Cheers I will try and pick one up from my local Tescos, its a big one so hopefully they will stock.
I have installed the latest firmware to my N97 its now runinng even better which is a nice side effect, I have the contacts manager software on there now as well which you can autostart so I am feeling reasonably confident I can get it working without too many problems, maybe as its the new 810 system and a late 09 car I wont have to use the contacts manager program I have it setup and ready anyway.


_Modified by alera at 6:25 AM 1-13-2010_


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

*Re: (alera)*

My E90 also required the contacts manager in order to sync with my previous Parrot (regular "headset profile", not rSAP) car kit. I installed it once, got it working but after upgrading the SW in the E90 I never bothered installing it again... It is responsible for synchronizing the contacts, but even if you don't do that you can answer calls without problems and dial out using the phone's own contact book. On a second thought, with a rSAP phone, the mobile's SIM is cloned and you CANNOT dial out using the phone while you are connected with the car, right? So there might actually be a point in synchronizing the contacts in this case. 
Anyway, great you got it installed. Good luck pairing the phone with the car! As you probably already figured out, the pairing process is done just once. Since then every time you step into the car the pairing takes place automatically (as long as you allow it in your phone's bluetooth settings)
Jouko


_Modified by jkuisma at 11:54 AM 1-13-2010_


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: updating contacts*

Granted mine's a 2007 model but everything's good on the rsap front except:- my newest mobile contacts are never displayed on the Phaeton dial-up list. I've tried inputting new contact numbers directly to the car's system through the information centre. It's slow with the same result - an inaccessible number.
Worse, having updated my daughter's number, twice, both on the mobile and the car system, the car system dialled the Nationwide Insurance Claims unpublished land line, in Birmingham, instead...spooky








Point is, having followed the Phaeton instructions for updating the contacts list via Bluetooth, I'm still stuck with the original list. The carphone won't recognise any new contacts. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: updating contacts (Aristoteles)*

Whats the phone ? IF its a Nokia N series my research suggests contacts manager installed on the phone will solve the problem (See links and comments above)
Anyway I am going to collect my new nov 09 pre reg Phaeton now so I guess we will find out shortly if the n97 works witht he new 810 system.


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: updating contacts (alera)*

I picked up my Nov 09 Phaeton today and the N97 pairs with it perfectly fine no need for the contact manager, RSAP seems to be an excellent system !


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: updating contacts (alera)*

It's a Nokia 6233. The thread is titled, 'Nokia 616 Contacts Download Application for N97'.
I guess that's a No?
But as a hopeless case would welcome some guidance.


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## glacken (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: updating contacts (Aristoteles)*

I have a Nokia 6303c and the 810 on a 09 car.
You can save contacts on both the phone's memory and on the sim card.
The set up will ask you which one it should look at.
If you say the sim card and the contacts are actually on the phone memory then it will miss them.
However if you click on both then the car will duplicate many numbers.
Keep trying, it will be worth it.
glacken


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: updating contacts (glacken)*

Try here:
http://europe.nokia.com/suppor...tware
There will be a version of contacts manager that is compatible with your phone hopefully try the Nokia_616_Contacts_Download_S60_3.1.sis version thats what I used it says it only worked on the N96 and N95 but it ran on mine fine (although I didnt need in the end) It says compatible with Nokia 6220 so close enough hopefully ??
The symphtoms you are suggesting Ie not downloading the contacts to the car and or not pairing correctly suggest the contacts manager might help, its a definate fix for Nokia N series phones with the RSAP system with same issue but not it would seem the 810 system on 09 car.
My N97 paired no problems and is fully integrated I didnt need to use it in the end.


_Modified by alera at 11:52 AM 1-14-2010_


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: updating contacts (glacken)*

Is it the Phaeton setup that asks the question, SIM or phone memory? Or is it in the mobile's Bluetooth setup I'm supposed to be looking at for this parameter?
You can see how far back I am on this subject. Grew up in a land of steam locomotion...policemen on bicycles....lamplighters...knife grinders....beer at tuppence a half...mechanical typewriters with (sob) ribbons that needed (sniff) changing (gets led gently away from the keyboard by loving friends & bemused family).
Sorry about that. I'm hoping the 2009 model's phone pairing is broadly similar in this respect to my 2007 my.


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## glacken (Oct 21, 2009)

*Re: updating contacts (Aristoteles)*

It is the car's setup that asks the question.
German instruction manuals are not always complete in their detail.
So take the telephone section and sit in your car ( a joy in itself) and start at the first page and follow the instructions step by step. 
It will take some time so make sure your phone battery is up to it.
Try putting a German Koi pond filter together just following their instructions!! 
Some American called Miller used to sing about policemen on bikes.
No more, they are afraid to go to the supermarket on their own these days.
Glacken


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: updating contacts (glacken)*

I have done the long vigil thing in the Phaeton armed only with the manual several times. It can be satisfying and this time who knows, perhaps I shall succeed in setting up the phone contacts system properly.


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## jlnh (Jan 16, 2010)

Need rSap? Have a Nokia (N900) ?
Go to this link: 
https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5204
and V O T E - this will force Nokia to do something about including the rSap software for your 'phone - so that it will worklike the N95 does!


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: rSAP phones (PanEuropean)*

I have read this thread several times and I am not clear on what US imported models can or cannot do to implement this rSAP system. 
1- Is this something that can be installed in the US models?
2- How difficult would it be to implement this in US models?
3- My display system has a telephone button, is this the one to be used if this system is installed?
4- I own an N95, is this telephone compatible? This thread seems to indicate it is.
Thank you.
cai


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: rSAP phones (cai)*

N95 will work with it fine. As for the other questions, its a factory fit system and seem to remember its from 07 onwards in Europe Phaetons. Pan European has mentioned before he might be interested in atttempting a retrofit which suggests it might be possible.


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Re: rSAP phones (alera)*

Thank you for the information. I will wait to hear from paneuropean regarding feasibility of installation in US models.
cai


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: updating contacts (Aristoteles)*

*Archival Note: * Another discussion of a similar topic: Pairing a rSAP phone in Phaeton.


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