# What Cars have you been Cross shopping with the A3/S3



## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

What Cars have you been Cross shopping with the A3/S3?

My interest has only been in the S3 sedan.....but in the last several months I have gotten very itchy for a new car and have been considering lots of alternatives. Here are the cars and the reasons why/why not.
I currently own a 2009 A4

TTS - the Nav and MMI are just so outdated, that I would feel like I was moving back instead of forward.

A5 - With all of the options that I wanted it would be 58,000. I could whittle down the options down to 53 and change...but that is still a little high for something that will take a 2k drop when the B9s come out. The other disadvantage would be that we like to go out to dinner with another couple on occasion. Getting 4 people in my car is a tad uncomfortable, 4 people in an A5 is almost impossible. Other than that I love the car. They are like 2" shorter, thinner, etc from the A4.

CPO S4 - It would have to be a facelifted car. While some of those exist, optioned as I want, you have to really look for them. Also with a CPO you lose the free 3 months of Sirius, the free 6 months of google maps and data usage, the free 8 months of Sirius traffic overlay on the map. You also lose the ACNA discount as well as the loyalty discount with CPO. You also can't get the 5 spoke rotor(titanium) wheels with a facelifted CPO S4, as that was not an option. All of that seemed like it would be a financial stretch and possibly not worth it

used A7 - OK so the A7 is not small, light, or much of anything that the S3 is. I got to spend 7 hours in a $93,000 optioned S7 this past May whipping around mountain roads and it was surprisingly fun to drive. Very different from a small light car, but could still be fun in the right light. I have found a few 2012 A7s in the mid 40s...but few had the sport package, most looked like they were a little rough, and without it being CPO....it just didn't seem worth it.

CPO Cayman - These seemed like a very likely contender until I realized that they don't have a volume and standard controls on the steering wheel. Say what you want but that is a big deal to me. If I wanted to reach over and make volume adjustments and station changes at the radio, I would buy a $13,000 car and save all the extra money.....or I would be fine without those for a track only car.

So what have you cross shopped and why have you decided against it (at least so far)?


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

Cyncris said:


> What Cars have you been Cross shopping with the A3/S3?
> 
> 
> CPO S4 - It would have to be a facelifted car. While some of those exist, optioned as I want, you have to really look for them. Also with a CPO you lose the free 3 months of Sirius, the free 6 months of google maps and data usage, the free 8 months of Sirius traffic overlay on the map. You also lose the ACNA discount as well as the loyalty discount with CPO. You also can't get the 5 spoke rotor(titanium) wheels with a facelifted CPO S4, as that was not an option. All of that seemed like it would be a financial stretch and possibly not worth it
> ...


Believe it or not I'm with you on these two as well. 

Part of what keeps me from the facelifted S4 is that it's due for a major overhaul in about a year or so, which would make me want to wait and see what's next at this point since I'm already waiting on the S3.

A used A7 is completely a different animal, but having driven a friend's A7 at a meet a few months ago made me fall in love with that thing. 

There is a part of me that wants to take a look at the cla45 amg...but I just don't know if I can get over the looks of it. From what I saw it just looks awkward, but the power of it can't be denied. Ultimately it'll be a lot more expensive than an S3 as well(granted it's more in line with what an RS would be). Starts at $49k, but with any boxes ticked it'll quickly approach $60k which would make me walk.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

Going to laugh...

Mazda3 -> if I want to save money
Golf R -> really swayed for the hatch

Other then that, based on market for next year, there really isn't anything there. Maybe Subaru will make the WRX / STi look better? Maybe...


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Great topic. A lot depends on potential family additions in the next year, but at this point I'm looking at a few alternatives:

1. A4 Quattro 6MT Sport
2. allroad
3. Believe it or not: MK 7 GTI
4. CPO'd S4, 2012 or newer

A lot of the decision making comes down to my willingness (or lack thereof) of going without the manual transmission in the upcoming A3/S3. It's a major sticking point for me.

The S4 is a stretch, admittedly, but if the financial Gods favor me it's where I am leaning.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I was going to say "nothing," but to be fair, I'm really here because the purchasing department wouldn't rubber stamp a Cayman S. I'd been keeping an eye on MY08 units for about two years; they finally came down below my pain threshold about six months ago. I was never able to get approval, and I didn't want to keep pushing it and end up with a MY09+ (I'm just not a fan of that face lift as compared to the original). I could get used to a MkII Cayman S, but those are still way north of my threshold.

So as a compromise, I came up with the S3. It's actually going to result in the throwing of several more stacks, but it's what I was able to get through the purchasing department. I should be clear that I don't feel one bit like I'm compromising; it's still a major upgrade over what I have now. There's always the future for some good RWD, mid-engine hoonage, I guess. I still really want one, but I am beyond excited about the S3. I know that's not been showing in my posts here. :sly:

I do intend to place my order sight-unseen like I did with my GLI. Leap of faith, sure- but I've never been the buyer who drives everything and shops everything from a Lotus to an Escalade out of indecisiveness.


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

my other options are very similar to what you guys have already mentioned.

1. i want AWD.
2. i want something relatively fast and sporty. meaning 300hp+, sub 5 seconds to 60mph.
3. has to have a high quality interior. meaning most likely german

i started having an interest in buying a new car about two years ago, and here's how those two years have passed...

2011: the release of the F30 3 series. specifically a 335ix msport.

i spent a few months on bimmerpost researching the car, getting opinions from others about it. wasnt exactly planning to buy it at the time, but it was one of my options. while researching i ran into a bunch of comparisons to the S4 so come late 2011 to 2012, my interest in the bimmer kinda died. amongst the main reasons is the lackluster interior compared to the S4.
oh, and all the meanwhile i read nothing but joke after joke about Audis being glorified VWs, blah, blah, blah, and i kinda went with that mentality for a while and disregarded Audi, up until i did quite a bit of research on the S4.

2012: i'm researching S4s, join audizine, and am really feeling this car. faster than the 335, much nicer interior, superior AWD, etc.
I specifically loved the titanium package which came on the 2012s, but couldnt make the purchase because there was no way i was getting a B8 when the B8.5 was gonna be released in a few months. And then I find out no titanium package on the B8.5... 

And so I wait. Still have an itch for a new car, but I continue to wait so see what news comes from all the brands.

late 2012: start getting rumors of the CLA45 AMG. an AWD mercedes with nice styling, interesting...
detroit auto show comes, car is shown, i'm loving it. start reading forums, and its a mixed reaction. whatever, i disregard most of them and wait for pricing info in may of 2013.
pricing is announced, and its 65k for what i want.  at this point i've read a bunch of negative comments about the car, start having mixed feelings about the interior, and to top it off, the european press isnt as positive about this car as i had hoped.

so with the announcement at the detroit auto show of the cla45 amg, there also came news of the S3, a car i also heard rumors of. i wasnt particularly excited for it as it looks like a small S4, but the interior was stunning, so i looked into it a bit more. TCL seemed to love it over the CLA45 AMG, so I did a bit of research into it, with my main gripe being its 2014 release. but like the years before, i said i could wait, and so i'm here now discussing the car with you all.

unfortunately, the story doesnt end there as there are new contenders.

I mentioned the need for AWD earlier, but if my job situation changes and I get a company truck for work, I likely wont need AWD for my personal vehicle and may look into:
1. upcoming Mustang GT.
2. upcoming M3/M4
3. Stingray.

Theres also the option of the new WRX when thats released next year, but Subaru really needs to rework that interior for me to even consider that car. Plus theres that whole boy racer image surrounding that car, so unless it stuns me, thats a big negative as I'm almost 27 and dont want to be associated with that culture.

So yeh, those are my options. If I can resist the urge I may just wait for the B9 S4 as thats the car I've been drawn to most these past few years. I cant make the purchase now even though theres a B8.5 with Black Optics currently available, knowing that the B9 will probably be shown with the next year.


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## Leke (Jul 29, 2013)

MaX PL said:


> late 2012: start getting rumors of the CLA45 AMG. an AWD mercedes with nice styling, interesting...
> detroit auto show comes, car is shown, i'm loving it. start reading forums, and its a mixed reaction. whatever, i disregard most of them and wait for pricing info in may of 2013.
> pricing is announced, and its 65k for what i want.  at this point i've read a bunch of negative comments about the car, start having mixed feelings about the interior, and to top it off, the european press isnt as positive about this car as i had hoped.


These are my exact thoughts with the CLA45. With options that I deem necessary (performance exhaust, navigation, Recaro seats), the car is pushing 60K+ due to MB's silly packaging requirements. That's C63 territory :screwy:. 

I'd opt for a CLA250, but it isn't much of an upgrade over my current car. I'd lose about 45HP, wouldn't have full-time AWD (which I can live with) and would have to buy multiple packages to have similar equipment (backup camera, navi, leather seats, sun-roof, etc.).

I'm trying to convince myself to get into a relatively spartan CLA45, but the thought of having a fully loaded S3 for the same price brings me back to my senses.


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

yeh there are alot of people over at mercedescla.org who, once pricing was announced, started creating a car that stayed as close to $50k as possible.
to me, that left it very barebones, looking like a stock cla250.

theres no way i'd pay even $50k for a barebones car.

anyway, now that i think about it, i think i read that september 23rd or something is the official release of the cla, so i expect to see demos in two, three weeks time.

i completely forgot, but one of the other downsides of the cla, and among the reasons i'd need to sit in one before purchasing, is its interior size. i think rear visibility may be poor, and in addition to the bad backseat headroom, i think i read that anyone over 6 ft may have problems up front as well.


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## Leke (Jul 29, 2013)

I had some trouble getting into the original CLS when I sat in one a few years ago and I'm around 6' and have a larger build. I can only assume the CLA would be even more cramped.

You're spot on about the release date. The MB dealer did say he'd give me a call in the next few weeks once he gets a 250 in to set up a 'fitting' and go for a test drive. I'm hesitant to even look at it, as I can't justify paying 60K for the AMG and have absolutely no intention of buying a 250.

Unless they're willing to give a healthy discount from MSRP and give me a great trade-in value for my car, it really looks like I'll be getting the Audi. 

I'd :heart: a Nardo Grey S3 with a brown/tan interior!


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## Pathfinder2041 (Sep 20, 2003)

Mercedes A45 AMG
BMW M2
B9 S4


I like a compact high performance vehicle, and the S3 looks like it will fill my needs nicely!


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

CLA45


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Maybe I'll go look at a CLA when they start showing up just to ensure my bias against it isn't unfounded. :laugh:

I've historically not cared for the overall package with Mercedes, and the CLA's styling doesn't do anything for me in photos, so I fully expect to be able to look at it and walk with nary a consideration of buying it.


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

Hmmm, this will depend on how long our '01 Beetle lasts, so finances will be a big question:

VW GTI
VW GTD
VW TDI
Mazda3
VW Golf
BMW i3


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

CLA250 vs the A3 for me. The S3 is a little too much for me, im trying to keep it at like 41,42k max on the MSRP. I am scared about what kind of pricing Audi is going to have on options that i want (the safety nannies, B and O, drive select, etc). I also have previous relationships with MB dealers so im thinking to stick with the CLA250. The only thing that bugs me about the CLA is no complete keyless entry and push button start, at least for the first year models.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Considering used 2.0T RWD (maybe AWD) Cadillac ATS. Really prefer to buy slightly used over new and with the A3 used will be a year and a half away to even start getting them. Already seeing 2.0T ATS's at mid $30k's with very few miles on them. By February probably can get one for low $30k's how I want it. Higher hp, expect better reliability (I'm on 3rd VW/Audi product), expect lower parts and maintenance costs, RWD based (even if I decide AWD), American car goes over better in my sales position with my customers and company pays a large portion of car.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

Cross shopping:
Audi a4 cpo 2013 stick low miles
Acura tlx (waiting for new model)
Jeep ultimate wrangler (I know completely different but might want something different and fun)
Audi allroad cpo way overpriced otherwise plus no stick.

Can't think of anything else, the A3 fits the bill BUT lack of stick option kills me thus audi a4 stick cpo possibly. Really want awd.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

cars i've test driven this summer. ATS 2L 6spd, 328i 6spd, a4 s line 6 spd, didn't bother with c class, i wanted to test the q50 and probably will but it's auto and a big engine only, which i don't want times 2, the new lexus IS won't even get a test drive because it's hideous and auto only. I might check out the GLI.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

kevlartoronto said:


> cars i've test driven this summer. ATS 2L 6spd, 328i 6spd, a4 s line 6 spd, didn't bother with c class, i wanted to test the q50 and probably will but it's auto and a big engine only, which i don't want times 2, the new lexus IS won't even get a test drive because it's hideous and auto only. I might check out the GLI.


might be worth waiting for the 2015 C class. I am eager to see how Audi will price the 2.0T A3.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

c class = no manual. besides i really don't like the new designs coming out of merc lately. the CLA is nice but the rest i could leave. then there's the 2 series gran coupe but that would mean waiting until spring of 2015 i think.


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## Leke (Jul 29, 2013)

Many of you guys mentioned cross-shopping the CLA with the S3, so I figured I'd post some initial impressions about the car.

I had the opportunity to test drive the CLA250 this week. It's not as bad as many of the reviews I've read make it seem. Specifically, I think many criticisms directed towards the car's overall refinement and suspension are a little overblown.

The suspension is firm, but isn't unpleasant in any way. I drove through a pothole-ridden road, which included a train track crossing, and was pleasantly surprised with how the car remained composed. 

The gearbox also felt good in automatic mode. In manual mode, I found it a little intrusive when it wouldn't let me downshift when I wanted. Though, I suspect that wouldn't be an issue if I learned where the car likes to shift. My current car is a 5-speed EAT, so I was gauging downshift shift-points based on my own experiences with my vehicle. 

Lastly, anyone over 6' tall is going to have *major* issues in the backseat of the car. I'm around 6' and my head was just brushing on the roofline. There isn't a whole lot of legroom in the rear either. Even while in the passenger seat, with the petite saleswoman sitting behind me, my legs were still bumped up against the glove compartment in order to give her an adequate amount of legroom behind me.

I understand that the CLA isn't a full-size sedan, but I think MB could've done better in regards to ergonomics and overall passenger comfort. It's really a case of function following form.


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## djdub (Dec 30, 2001)

1. Allroad (not the right powertrain for my tastes)
2. Golf R (have had both R32's, some Golfs, GTI's - ready for something a little bigger but would have loved the S3 Sportback) 
3. S4 Avant (Doesn't exist in the USA)
4. 328 Wagon (Not really exactly what I'm looking for. 
5. May just wait and get a 911 plus a truck.
6. The CTS-V Wagon and also an E63 Wagon could be used options.

I want a usable, fast wagon, that's got a Dual Clutch and has some class. (Preferably German)

P.S. A 2007/8 Sprint Blue S4 Avant might be an option if I could find a perfectly kept example.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Leke said:


> Many of you guys mentioned cross-shopping the CLA with the S3, so I figured I'd post some initial impressions about the car.
> 
> I had the opportunity to test drive the CLA250 this week. It's not as bad as many of the reviews I've read make it seem. Specifically, I think many criticisms directed towards the car's overall refinement and suspension are a little overblown.
> 
> ...


hmmn, so the CLA is pretty decent, thats good to hear . Maybe some of the criticism was a bit overblown. I'll have to drive the car though. How was the visibility? I have been hearing visibility out the back and the sides is poor .


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## Leke (Jul 29, 2013)

caliatenza said:


> hmmn, so the CLA is pretty decent, thats good to hear . Maybe some of the criticism was a bit overblown. I'll have to drive the car though. How was the visibility? I have been hearing visibility out the back and the sides is poor .


I left out visibility due to my opinion being pretty subjective, that, and the fact that I drove the car at 9:00pm. 

My legs are pretty long in relation to the rest of my body, so I had the seat back pretty far. Every time I'd go to check my blind-spot, my view was partially obstructed by the B-pillar. I found myself having to lean forwards to get a clear view.

I will say that this has been an issue in virtually every car I've driven. 5 years in my Subaru and I still muck around with the seating position every few days.


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## tclky (Aug 22, 2012)

Looking for a 4 door compact that has good handling and reasonable pep for under $35K so the Mazda3 and the VW Golf and GTI are also on my list. Ruled out everything else in that segment for one reason or another.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Leke said:


> I left out visibility due to my opinion being pretty subjective, that, and the fact that I drove the car at 9:00pm.
> 
> My legs are pretty long in relation to the rest of my body, so I had the seat back pretty far. Every time I'd go to check my blind-spot, my view was partially obstructed by the B-pillar. I found myself having to lean forwards to get a clear view.
> 
> I will say that this has been an issue in virtually every car I've driven. 5 years in my Subaru and I still muck around with the seating position every few days.


yeah i'm the same way, i have to lean forward a bit to see my blind spot...


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

I have a long list, albeit some of these are a long shot.

Acura TSX 
Audi A3 
Audi A4 
Buick Regal 
Buick Verano 2013 Turbo Premium 
Cadilac ATS 
Ford Mustang V6 
Honda Accord Sport 
Infiniti G37 Sedan
Infiniti Q50 
Lexus IS250 RWD 
Mazda 6 
Mercedes CLA250 
Scion TC 
Subaru Impreza 
Subaru Legacy 
Toyota Camry SE 
Volvo S60 T5 AWF 
VW CC 
VW GTI


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## blum3416 (Jul 21, 2013)

Looking at either the Audi S3, IS 350 F Sport AWD, VW Golf R, new Subaru WRX, or the Audi S4. All of it depends on release date, pricing, and discounts available. I know I'll have a better chance for rebates and incentives on the older models, but I'm really hoping the Audi Club of North America membership I have will get me the 6%, which will make the Audi S3 a for-sure choice.


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## VR6Nikopol (Jul 11, 2001)

Adding a supercharger to my MkV R32 :laugh: !


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## VeeDubbinJetta91 (Aug 19, 2002)

I was deadset on getting a new S3 and maybe after they have been out a year or so ill trade in the A4 and get one. I was in a 2008 R32 that I had owned since new but wanted to get something a little newer/more fun and I figured the S3 was it. I started cross shopping Golf R's, CPO B8 S4's and new Audi A4's, I ended up with a new '14 A4, Was it the most "fun" choice out of the bunch, definitely not. But it worked out the best for me. I needed/wanted a 4 door car that could carry a newborn yet still be enjoyable to drive, The Golf R was high up on the list but I wanted new and those were becoming few and far between and the dealers that did have them still wanted top dollar, so those were out. An S4 has been a dream car of mine since the B5.5's came out but picking up a used S4 did not seem like the best financial decision especially once it went out of warranty. I really wanted to wait for a S3 but not knowing when it will be officially released or pricing and needing a bigger car by Janurary I opted for the A4. After almost 2 months of owning it now I could not be happier, Its an enjoyable car to drive, handles well, is peppy enough for my liking(Stock) and fits 4 adults nicely. I will defintely check out the S3's once they are finally released and if financials are looking good come then maybe ill offload the A4 and "step up" into a S3 . I must say though coming from a DSG R32 I do love having a 6spd again :thumbup:


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## FastGTi (Feb 16, 1999)

Pretty much down to the S3 or a V60 R Design.


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

Dan or Travis, have you guys looked at the CLA?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I haven't. I thought about heading to the dealership last week, but I've never been one to show up at a dealership with no intention to seriously consider a car I'm showing up to see, much less show up to look at a car I know I have no interest in buying. Ergo, while I'm curious if the complaints about the CLA are well-founded, I don't intend to waste a salesman's time finding out. Stated in another way, there's nothing I can see on a CLA that would tempt me to reconsider my purchase decision for the S3.

I saw enough when I built a CLA on mbusa.com and ran it well over $40k to tick the arguably required boxes. While the CLA25 certainly should be more potent than the S3, a starting price over $47,000 would be a non-starter for me. Admittedly, I haven't spent as much time looking at the CLA25 option sheet, but a quick glance leads me to believe there's not much standard on it, either.

I'm still curious how the CLA feels in person, though. :laugh:


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

02GOLFGTI1.8T said:


> Dan or Travis, have you guys looked at the CLA?


Not yet. I was planning on doing so this weekend but remodeling our den took priority. 

I hope to this week/weekend.


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

good, would like to get your input. the only thing preventing me from moving forward with a cla is the A3. The interior will be much better... I think mercedes invested a lot in techno gizmos and they had to cut some corners in the interior...


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

02GOLFGTI1.8T said:


> good, would like to get your input. the only thing preventing me from moving forward with a cla is the A3. The interior will be much better... I think mercedes invested a lot in techno gizmos and they had to cut some corners in the interior...


The vibe that I'm getting so far, and this is in no way substantiated by any fact, is that Mercedes built the car to a specified price point. I know that Mercedes of America lobbied extremely hard for the CLA considering demographics were not going their way (average Merc buyer is well into their 50s). Marketing really pushed for the sub-$30k price point to get the attention people and get them to at least consider a Merc. 

At the root this is an economy of scale issue and Mercedes cannot come anywhere close to matching Volkswagen. This is where the MQB architecture is absolutely central to both corporate profitability and niche market control moving forward: VW and Audi can leverage MQB across 16 million units annually, Mercedes is working with fewer than 1 million. Audi gets to enjoy the benefit of lower production costs and then plow that cash back into refinement. 

From what I've read so far, refinement is the area where the CLA falls down and the A3 stands out. Numerous reviews state that the A3 has the feel of an A6 where equivalent CLA reviews seem to pick on the cheapening of the feel of a Mercedes. Now I have to admit, I've never found Merc's cars to be all that 'plush': I test drove a 2011 E-Class and thought it felt very cheap for the price, especially compared to the equivalent A6 or 5-Series. 

I think Mercedes will sell a boatload of CLAs in North America because of the branding and the affordability factor. I just think that this battle is one for Audi to lose if they fail to position or price the car correctly.


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## Rudy_H (Jul 6, 2012)

I tossed the AMG CLA long time ago...

In Canada, you are looking at $49,800 for an AMG...BUT...
That doesn't include AMG Suspension, AMG Performance Steering Wheel, AMG Sports Seats, AMG Performance Exhaust...wait a second, I thought I clicked the 'AMG CLA45'...

Then I went to the Audi Canada site, saw the S4, and noticed it is cheaper then the AMG CLA45 option for option.

You need to REALLY REALLY love the car to buy it, VERY over priced.


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

My local Audi dealer also is my local Mercedes dealer so can see the CLA and when it gets here to NA the A3. For one I'm not interested in the Mercedes, but will be cross shopping the GLI Autobahn. But will not be doing anything before the spring of '14 when the A3 sedan arrives here in North America.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Travis Grundke said:


> The vibe that I'm getting so far, and this is in no way substantiated by any fact, is that Mercedes built the car to a specified price point. I know that Mercedes of America lobbied extremely hard for the CLA considering demographics were not going their way (average Merc buyer is well into their 50s). Marketing really pushed for the sub-$30k price point to get the attention people and get them to at least consider a Merc.
> 
> At the root this is an economy of scale issue and Mercedes cannot come anywhere close to matching Volkswagen. This is where the MQB architecture is absolutely central to both corporate profitability and niche market control moving forward: VW and Audi can leverage MQB across 16 million units annually, Mercedes is working with fewer than 1 million. Audi gets to enjoy the benefit of lower production costs and then plow that cash back into refinement.
> 
> ...


I agree with you Travis...Mercedes has built the CLA to a price . Hmmn thats odd, you would think the E class would be very plush..at least they look like that to me. I guess with the CLA, people will buy it cause of the looks and the badge. In fact i was pretty much set on the CLA, until i sat in the car and got the feel of it...the interior is a big let down for me, even compared to the C class.


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

I am only really considering the S3 and MKVII Golf R. I'm a big fan of hatch backs but I am pretty sure I will be going with the S3. However, I am keeping my eye the BMW's 2 series just in case they put out something really amazing, but I really can't see myself driving a BMW.


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## LWNY (Jul 30, 2008)

The CLA is a bigger car than the A3, so it might be cross shopped with A4's, which by then would seem to be a relative bargain, even if it is upgraded so it doesn't have the econofeel.


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## mrtonyxl (Dec 21, 2009)

I've been lurking in this forum for a while as I'm as interested in the S3 as all of you guys are. I've been waiting for the S3 and MKVII R as my primary choices, I'm currently driving a 2009 A4 Prestige.

That said, went car shopping this weekend with my buddy and the Audi dealership had a CLA there for their sales guys to look at. They got it from the Mercedes dealer down the street since they're all friends. We checked it out but also ended up going to the dealer to take one for a drive. 

I can echo what everyone has said so far - engineered to a price. It really does look much better in person than the pictures (even the "droopy" rear end). I can't complain about the exterior looks at all. $36,805 sticker got you the Panorama Sunroof, Premium Package, and Sport Package with the 18" AMG wheels. On the surface seems not too shabby...until you get into it. It feels decidedly cheap, immediately. Too much plastic and it feels "thin" inside. Light. As in they skimped on paddings, plushness, sound deadening material, etc. No keyless anything, the interface dial is way too close to the armrest so you need T-Rex arms to use it comfortably. The display looks absolutely TERRIBLE. It looks like a child's tablet or an oversize Tom Tom unit glued to the top of the center console. Almost like they forgot they were going to need a display and tacked it on after the fact. HORRIBLE. I'd actually be embarrassed about it if I had a passenger with me. The engine was peppy, not bad, but nothing to write home about. 

They'll sell a ton of them to the folks who just want a luxury badge but to enthusiasts like us - no way. Even springing for the CLA 45 won't change a lot of those deal breakers - it just makes it a faster P.O.S.

Anyways, just my 2 cents. I ended up going for a 2014 A4 (glacier white, premium plus, bang and olufsen, black optics package, sports package, side assist, nav with mmi plus, audi connect) instead of waiting for the s3. 3 years so when its time to turn in the A4, s3's will have been on the ground for at least a year, maybe they would have changed their minds at that point and an s3 sportback will be on the horizon, and b9 A4's will be out along with the MKVII R so I'll have options at that point. Some of you guys might consider doing something similar - there's just so much on the horizon and some of us are in a need something soon position.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

mrtonyxl said:


> They'll sell a ton of them to the folks who just want a luxury badge but to enthusiasts like us - no way. Even springing for the CLA 45 won't change a lot of those deal breakers - it just makes it a faster P.O.S.


:laugh::thumbup:



mrtonyxl said:


> the CLA 45 won't change a lot of those deal breakers - it just makes it a faster P.O.S.
> 
> Anyways, just my 2 cents. I ended up going for a 2014 A4 (glacier white, premium plus, bang and olufsen, black optics package, sports package, side assist, nav with mmi plus, audi connect) instead of waiting for the s3. 3 years so when its time to turn in the A4, s3's will have been on the ground for at least a year, maybe they would have changed their minds at that point and an s3 sportback will be on the horizon, and b9 A4's will be out along with the MKVII R so I'll have options at that point. Some of you guys might consider doing something similar - there's just so much on the horizon and some of us are in a need something soon position.


That sounds like a good choice for someone in your situation. I'm looking to buy and keep ten years, so I have to sit on the sidelines a little longer. I completely understand your decision, though.


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

mrtonyxl said:


> They'll sell a ton of them to the folks who just want a luxury badge


Bingo. Hence the entire front end being literally built around the badge screaming "LOOK AT ME, IM DRIVING A MERCEDES BENZ"

My question is, how hard have they considered this damage to the brand reputation long term? Have they taken into account the sales they make to the wealthy older crowd, who have been their bread and butter, who will be put off that a snot-nosed new college grad will be buying a "prestigious" MB? Part of the allure of luxury cars is that they are offered as something to aspire purchasing. The entire premise of luxury products is the idea that they are exclusive.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

ChrisFu said:


> Bingo. Hence the entire front end being literally built around the badge screaming "LOOK AT ME, IM DRIVING A MERCEDES BENZ"
> 
> My question is, how hard have they considered this damage to the brand reputation long term? Have they taken into account the sales they make to the wealthy older crowd, who have been their bread and butter, who will be put off that a snot-nosed new college grad will be buying a "prestigious" MB? Part of the allure of luxury cars is that they are offered as something to aspire purchasing. The entire premise of luxury products is the idea that they are exclusive.


well a "snot-nosed new college grad" could still buy a used Mercedes if the CLA wasnt around. I doubt their older wealthy crowd really cares about the CLA, other than to maybe get their kids one to start them off into the brand. I am more worried about the refinement and fit and finish of the car damaging the brand rather than what their wealthier customers may or may not think. Its sad that the CLA has low rent plastics that wouldnt look out of place in an econo car. The exterior looks pretty exciting, but then you sit in the car and bam, it hits you . I mean when i buy a Mercedes, i expect something above other brands, even at a $30k price point. At least Audi is going to maintain the prestige with the upcoming A3....


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

mrtonyxl said:


> Anyways, just my 2 cents. I ended up going for a 2014 A4 (glacier white, premium plus, bang and olufsen, black optics package, sports package, side assist, nav with mmi plus, audi connect) instead of waiting for the s3. 3 years so when its time to turn in the A4, s3's will have been on the ground for at least a year, maybe they would have changed their minds at that point and an s3 sportback will be on the horizon, and b9 A4's will be out along with the MKVII R so I'll have options at that point. Some of you guys might consider doing something similar - there's just so much on the horizon and some of us are in a need something soon position.


i was really thinking about looking into the A4 today; but every car on the lot around here in Southern CA doesnt have side assist. I would have to hate to order the car and not get a better deal by picking one up off the lot. I pretty much want the same A4 like you got, with the exception of the black optics package. How are the deals on the A4 now?? Truecar makes it seem like i could get one for below invoice...


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

I came very close to buying an A5 a few months ago. I don't NEED a new car. My 2009 A4 just hit 36,000 miles and I have kept the car perfect. When you start looking, it is hard to wait for so long. Especially if you don't know 100% that you will like what you are waiting on.

I am glad that the wife talked me out of getting the A5 for the time being. I am good to wait just a little longer......I still really like my car....which pisses me off. I have only kept one car longer than this one and I hated it with the greatest passion when I got rid of it at 7 years. I should be hating on the A4 since it is 5 years old......but I really can't...and that pisses me off  

I have convinced myself that I "need" the new S3 because of the new technology features now. Truth is, I would probably be happy with any well optioned Audi...


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Cyncris said:


> I came very close to buying an A5 a few months ago. I don't NEED a new car. My 2009 A4 just hit 36,000 miles and I have kept the car perfect. When you start looking, it is hard to wait for so long. Especially if you don't know 100% that you will like what you are waiting on.
> 
> I am glad that the wife talked me out of getting the A5 for the time being. I am good to wait just a little longer......I still really like my car....which pisses me off. I have only kept one car longer than this one and I hated it with the greatest passion when I got rid of it at 7 years. *I should be hating on the A4 since it is 5 years old......but I really can't...and that pisses me off*
> 
> I have convinced myself that I "need" the new S3 because of the new technology features now. Truth is, I would probably be happy with any well optioned Audi...


I'm so glad I don't suffer from the same illness. :laugh:

If it weren't for the S3 coming to the US, I'd probably have my GLI another several years... or until I could have made my wife snap and approve the Cayman S.


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

Looks like the CLA is off to a surprisingly hot start in terms of sales.....


http://www.autoblog.com/2013/10/02/mercedes-benz-cla-strong-sales/


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> I'm so glad I don't suffer from the same illness. :laugh:
> 
> If it weren't for the S3 coming to the US, I'd probably have my GLI another several years... or until I could have made my wife snap and approve the Cayman S.


I don't know if I can wait till spring, I might need a car sooner .


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yeah, even the most well-kept 2003 Atenza is probably long in the tooth at this point.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> Yeah, even the most well-kept 2003 Atenza is probably long in the tooth at this point.


sadly she is gone now. I donated the car to charity almost a month back. The car had a lot of problems, first and foremost with the TCS and transmission. It would have been too expensive to fix and get smogged. Currently i have no car, just getting by with the family van. Thats why i was looking at A4's the other day. My dad's C250 stickered just over $46k MSRP (got it for $40k and change). A4's (Premium Plus 2.0 Quattro Tiptronic, with Sport, Navigation, B and O, and Side Assist) were coming up to similar prices, if not cheaper...and truecar was saying that i could get one for below invoice (around $42k).


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Yikes. That's a tough situation. Given any thought to picking up the last year or so of someone's lease on one of those lease trader websites?


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> Yikes. That's a tough situation. Given any thought to picking up the last year or so of someone's lease on one of those lease trader websites?


No, actually not really. Actually I just finished med school overseas and i am back at home now preparing for board exams. I dont even really need a car right now (not working or commuting) but i will soon after these exams finish. I go out once or twice a week to do research locally but thats about it and i take the family van, so its not a big deal. I want to wait till spring for the A3 and whatever else is out, but i just might need a car before then...the A4 looked like a nice option. I had my hopes up on the CLA but the interior feel and fit and finish dashed that hope. The way i wanted my CLA it would have been 43-44k. Now i figure, why not option up an A4 for about 2k more and have a much better and superior car, that dealers are willing to make deals on.


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## kevlartoronto (Jun 10, 2012)

Unfortunately the decision has already been made for me. I really would love to replace my avant with the new a3 but no manual means no buy.


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## csullivan (Jun 1, 2008)

My wife has green lighted an M4, and I think part of it is her desperation to be rid of my STI, which she now finds terrifying and childish. :laugh:

But I really can't justify the likely sticker price for that car given that I drive at most 10 miles a day, running a consulting business from home.

The S3 seems to sit in a spot that I can grab it without feeling guilty. But I'm still considering the M3/M4 if I can accept the judgmental looks that would come with owning a BMW.

I've also been patiently waiting for information on the Cadillac ATS-V. Given how well the current ATS drives, giving it a forced induction V6 could make it a real beast, and there's still some hope it comes in WELL under the CLA45. 

I passed on the last Golf R because of delays with its release, and while I would likely shop the new R, current reports have it coming out so much later than the next Golf and GTI that it will again be late to the party. 

At this point the S3 is definitely the front runner.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Background - I first joined VWVortex in the early part of the last decade when I thought I'd get back into a VW Group product. This is my first post to the site in forever....

My first car, eons ago, was my father's old 1986 Audi 5000s. I then owned a VW Corrado G60 ('92) followed by a Passat GLX ('96). Between marriage and having a family the vehicle needs changed radically, so I wound up driving the "other" family car. To whit -

The Passat was replaced with a Chrysler T&C which meant I took over my wife's Isuzu Rodeo.
The Town and Country was replaced with a Yukon XL which I took over when we sold the Rodeo for my wife's Honda Odyssey. Why we bought two new cars with in 7 months of each other is a long story, and not something I'll ever do again. They both wound up needing similar ($$) maintenance at the same time.

Last week we replaced the Odyssey with a '14 Dodge Durango (which, you guessed it, is my wife's new car). We (I) hope to replace the Yukon XL with a car for me in about two years, but I'm effectively starting to prowl the market now. I figure having a long lead time means proper research and a good choice. 

My oldest goes to college in 2016. The Durango will serve admirably as the family hauler, and will allow us to tow a future, smaller camping trailer.

Here's my list - I'd prefer a hatch, just for flexibility, but not sure I'm ready for a hybrid. 
I'd really like AWD which becomes a limiting factor in creating a list, so I didn't consider it a must have for purposes of the list (no particular order)

A3
Mazda 3
Mazda CX-5 (gets me AWD, sort of)
Mazda 6
VW Mk VII GTI/GTD
Subaru Impreza/WRX (assuming they significantly improve the next gen over the current mess)
Buick Regal
VW CC or Passat (depending on whatever updates are made in the next couple of years, especially to telematics).

The kicker is price - I'm trying to stay mid-30s and below as we agreed with the purchase of the Durango that the Yukon replacement would be a car of lower cost.

BMW and MB - no thanks - they're just not me, and I can't see showing up at a family gathering in either one because of the perceived $$$ of the brands.

So, bottom line, I'm here looking for info (like everyone else) on the A3.

Thanks for reading.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Welcome! Glad you're here, Dave.


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

csullivan said:


> I passed on the last Golf R because of delays with its release, and while I would likely shop the new R, current reports have it coming out so much later than the next Golf and GTI that it will again be late to the party.
> 
> At this point the S3 is definitely the front runner.


I am in a very similar situation. I kept impatiently waiting only to see we were getting the manual. I only passed on the last R because of a bad knee which no longer makes shifting fun especially during my commute. 

The S3 definitely hits multiple checkboxes for me. 

AWD = check...no real need for it living in Florida though it has come in handy with as much rain as we have had over the past hurricane seasons
Smaller = check...I have grown used to the size of my R32 and I love the size. I just don't know if I could go back to a full size sedan. If they offered a Jetta R it would be on the list. 
DCT = check...Bad knees have sidelined my plans on driving a manual again. It was originally why I switched to the R32 from the MKIV Jetta GLI 1.8T
Hatchback = miss...unfortunately still no S3 Sportback for the states. I just hope the trunk in the S3 is large enough even if the rear seats need to be down since I routinely fill my hatch. 
Price = undecided...while I can afford the S3 I just don't know if I want to pay the price. With the R usually sub 40K, it meets all my needs except when they don't offer DSG. It will also depends on the pricing of options and how much it costs to get what I want.

At this point if it isn't the S3, I don't know what it will be, but I am definitely ready for a new vehicle.


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

I think the WRX is off the table for me after whats been shown today. The tease subaru released lines up with the render thats been floating around, and I really cant see myself buying something thats so impreza-like.
They promised to separate the WRX from the impreza, but it looks like that isnt the case.

Anyway, I've also found myself in the situation where I may not buy any car at all. I'm likely getting a promotion which will double my pay, so thats good in the sense of being able to afford a nice car. However, the promotion also comes with a company car/truck so I've found myself debating whether its worth buying a new personal car at all. 

Should I just buy a weekend fun car like the C7 or the new M4? Or possibly a used 997 C4S?
Which of those three would you guys take?


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

any Porsche > anything else :laugh:
997 C4S > most other Porsches


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## brainofjjj (Nov 13, 2013)

Jesus, you guys are like my long lost twins, of car preferences at least. Weird

Anyway, i've never owned an Audi  shocking i know. I tend to lean towards BMW because of the track support and club racing. I currently track an E46 M3 and have an E90 M3 DD and an older Volvo wagon for the kids.

Oddly enough i'm looking at the S or RS3 to replace the M3, it's not the best DD with gas milege in the low teens and it's far more fun on the track due to the lowish tourque and HP all being above 6k. I've cross shopped the GTI (too small), the Ford RS (boy racerish) and i'm waiting to see the V60 Polestar (wagon!). I want a wagon bad but i'll settle for a small sedan with nice around town torque that's under 50k.

This site is great and i'm glad to have found some similar tastes that don't live/breathe BMW.

Any thoughts on a A7 while i wait for the RS3? Do they lease well?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

brainofjjj said:


> Jesus, you guys are like my long lost twins, of car preferences at least. Weird
> 
> Anyway, i've never owned an Audi  shocking i know. I tend to lean towards BMW because of the track support and club racing. I currently track an E46 M3 and have an E90 M3 DD and an older Volvo wagon for the kids.
> 
> ...


Welcome!

If you're used to BMW's favorable leases, you're probably not going to find much to like with Audi, unfortunately. I've not leased one, but my understanding is that they don't lease well.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

MaX PL said:


> I think the WRX is off the table for me after whats been shown today. The tease subaru released lines up with the render thats been floating around, and I really cant see myself buying something thats so impreza-like.
> They promised to separate the WRX from the impreza, but it looks like that isnt the case.
> 
> Anyway, I've also found myself in the situation where I may not buy any car at all. I'm likely getting a promotion which will double my pay, so thats good in the sense of being able to afford a nice car. However, the promotion also comes with a company car/truck so I've found myself debating whether its worth buying a new personal car at all.
> ...


I have a situation that is similar but now with a company car allowance (used to have a full company car) that I have some restrictions on what I get. Personally prefer the interesting used car for a weekend car, partly because I rarely drive it. If you buy a new M4 or C7 and drive it 2k miles a year (38 miles a week) then get rid of it in 5 years you may be surprised at how much it cost you to drive those 10k miles. Buy the used C4S and after 5 years and 10k miles the amount lost is tiny in comparison. 

As a good financial decision there is no reason to have 2 cars but at the same time as a pure financial decision I wouldn't buy an Audi.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> As a good financial decision there is no reason to have 2 cars but at the same time as a pure financial decision I wouldn't buy an Audi.


Ain't that the truth. I think we all checked pure financial decisions at the door when signing up to buy VWs or Audis.


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

csullivan said:


> My wife has green lighted an M4, and I think part of it is her desperation to be rid of my STI, which she now finds terrifying and childish. :laugh:
> 
> But I really can't justify the likely sticker price for that car given that I drive at most 10 miles a day, running a consulting business from home.
> 
> ...


I agree with almost all of that. I too am curious about the M3/M4, ATS-V and unlike you I want the RS3 instead of the S3. I have the current Mk6 Golf R and I feel the S3 wouldn't really be a big step up. I'm in no rush tho, I still love my R. It's just part of being an enthusiast, lusting after upcoming cars. I will be keeping my eye on the RS3 (hope we get it), M3/M4, and ATS-V for sure. RS3 would be my first choice tho!


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

dmorrow said:


> I have a situation that is similar but now with a company car allowance (used to have a full company car) that I have some restrictions on what I get. Personally prefer the interesting used car for a weekend car, partly because I rarely drive it. * If you buy a new M4 or C7 and drive it 2k miles a year (38 miles a week) then get rid of it in 5 years you may be surprised at how much it cost you to drive those 10k miles. Buy the used C4S and after 5 years and 10k miles the amount lost is tiny in comparison. *
> 
> As a good financial decision there is no reason to have 2 cars but at the same time as a pure financial decision I wouldn't buy an Audi.


the low mileage i'll put on the car during the weekends is whats pushing me away from purchasing any car, or the costlier ones at least, at all.
high payments for a car i rarely drive? whats the point?

and i never even considered a porsche, but like you mention, the depreciation will likely be lower,which is among the factors attracting me to the car.

still havent found my ideal porsche on the auto sites though...


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## Hasek9339 (Apr 25, 2007)

I love S3 but I think it's a stretch for me right now..... I still like A3 but it will depend on pricing like Quattro etc.... 
I am also looking at the new GTI/GTD but a little apprehensive about a new car from a new plant... I had a Mexican made Jetta in 2007 and it was fine I just hope VW does not cheapen it like they did with the current Jett's!

I also like the a Golf R drove one a few months ago and it was fast!!! I would say right now that's the front runner because in a few month I think I'll be able to find a good one for 25-30k

Also sat in back seat of a CLA what a joke.... I'm 6-4 and I have no chance ever of fitting!


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## .:Ru4dubn¿ (Mar 14, 2012)

Nothing. I loved my MK6 R, and I'm hoping that the S3 ticks all those same boxes for me (maybe more?), and it has the DSG (wife requirement). So, for me, its S3 or nothing.


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## mookieblaylock (Sep 25, 2005)

Hasek9339 said:


> I love S3 but I think it's a stretch for me right now.....
> I am also looking at the new GTI/GTD
> I also like the a Golf R drove one a few months ago and it was fast!!! I would say right now that's the front runner because in a few month I think I'll be able to find a good one for 25-30k


golf r is top of the list for me if dsg, if not then base s3 if my bicycle fits in the trunk with the seats flat


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

mookieblaylock said:


> golf r is top of the list for me if dsg, if not then base s3 if my bicycle fits in the trunk with the seats flat


I'd start hoping for a DSG .:R, then. Unless you ride something like a 50cm road bike, I don't see it happening. Even then, it's going to be with the front wheel off and probably the seat removed. 

I'm hopeful that Curt will have a hitch for the S3 in short order I'm not big on roof racks these days.


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## Chuck2001 (Aug 12, 2011)

Unfortunatly, the Golf R will come too late in Canada.

We want to change Autumn 2014.

We would want :

- A car not too big (city)
- But usable space (kid on the way), a wagon / hatchback would be great
- AWD
- DSG or good slushbox like ZF (I'd like manual but not the wife, so good combo)
- NOT A CROSSOVER !!! (wife is attracted by Q5 etc...)
- Good Interior

So :

F31 328d Touring : I'd go diesel, we would save about 1k a year easy on gas (premium vs diesel). Good torque for city driving, enough for us.

GOLF R : Too late but would be perfect. We don't need the Audi badge and luxurious interior, so good value. The GTI interior is pretty good compared to the rest of the pack. Also, MQB got the Golf VII more spacious.

A4 : Don't think so, B9 is coming....interior is old.... S4 is too expensive

S3 : Trunk Trunk Trunk.... maybe I'll get myself into getting a Thule for the roof....


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## Zorro83 (Sep 10, 2011)

For me it's the bmw m235i


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

For me it was:

CLA
BMW 2 series
Cadillac ATS 2.0T


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## Hubble (Jul 26, 2010)

S3
CPO S4
Chevrolet SS
ATS
CPO CTS V
Accord V6
GTI MKVII
VW e-Golf or A3 eTron

The S4 is such a great car and I've had 2 already. You all know why this is on my list but the S3 is really the spiritual successor to my beloved B6 S4 so it is the front runner for now.

The Chevy SS I haven't driven yet, but it appeals to me with a huge V8 and a good chassis. It might be too big as I generally favor smaller cars

The ATS is a great car. Wonderful to drive but the CUE is terrible and is actually more expensive than the S3 and will probably turn out to have less interior space. When the S3 seems so good, why would I want an ATS that has flaws?

I'd love to get a CTS-V wagon but this is probably not in the cards.

The Accord V6 is so fast and is a capable daily driver. For the price it's an amazing car but it is just so plain and unexciting that I can't bring myself to buy one

I drive a GTI VI now and it is fantastic. It was so nice to drive that I really didn't miss the 911 I had when my twins arrived and I traded it for a GMC Acadia for the wife. So the GTI VII is probably my #2. I can afford anything up to $60k+ if I really wanted to but the GTI is such a fantastic vehicle that it makes it hard to justify dropping that much cash on anything more than a GTI.

And I'm including the eGolf and eTron because they are really interesting to me purely out of curiosity. If the e Golf had more speed than the pathetic 10.5 seconds they are quoting it would be higher on my list but I might get over that since driving electric is fun in it's own way.


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## MickSF (May 22, 2008)

I am looking at the following :

A3
GTI/ Golf R
BMW 2 series


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

For me I have five, in order of want.
1. Audi S3
2. Golf R/GTI
3. 2015 Mustang GT
4. Cadillac ATS
5. Jeep Cherokee


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## Chuck2001 (Aug 12, 2011)

Hubble said:


> I drive a GTI VI now and it is fantastic. It was so nice to drive that I really didn't miss the 911 I had when my twins arrived and I traded it for a GMC Acadia for the wife. So the GTI VII is probably my #2. I can afford anything up to $60k+ if I really wanted to but the GTI is such a fantastic vehicle that it makes it hard to justify dropping that much cash on anything more than a GTI.


I'm driving a Mk6 GTI too, great car we love it ! Put AWD in the combo and it would be a go. The value of this product is great.

We are looking also at the MK7 but we know deep down we won't go that way since we want AWD now (Montreal winter...).


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Hubble said:


> S3
> CPO S4
> Chevrolet SS
> ATS
> ...


I agree with the above and have some of the same thoughts but I currently drive an older A3.

For me the price of the S3 compared to the ATS is the opposite because for the money I would prefer used. Seems pretty easy to get a one year old ATS with less than 10k miles on it for less than $35k (even the 3.6 V-6, possibly Premium). For me I question whether a new S3 is worth roughly $10k more than a one year old ATS with low miles.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

dmorrow said:


> I agree with the above and have some of the same thoughts but I currently drive an older A3.
> 
> For me the price of the S3 compared to the ATS is the opposite because for the money I would prefer used. Seems pretty easy to get a one year old ATS with less than 10k miles on it for less than $35k (even the 3.6 V-6, possibly Premium). For me I question whether a new S3 is worth roughly $10k more than a one year old ATS with low miles.


There's some good news on this front - do a search for used/CPO ATSes and you'll find a _lot_ of very good options and even better prices. The ATS doesn't seem to be holding its value particularly well. I checked on a few used ATS 2.0T 6MTs and while there aren't many used ones available in the country right now, the price points and mileage numbers are ridiculously good. When you're talking $31k for what is basically a fully loaded ATS 2.0T 6MT with less than 10,000 miles on the clock, that's hard to pass up. 

And if you haven't driven the ATS - it's a damned fine car. Biggest two gripes were the position of the armrest (fine for automatic, terrible when shifting in 6MT config) and the engine was a bit more coarse than I'm used to. Not bad, mind you, just not Audi levels of refinement on a turbo 4.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Travis Grundke said:


> When you're talking $31k for what is basically a fully loaded ATS 2.0T 6MT with less than 10,000 miles on the clock, that's hard to pass up.


We're talking about a $47,000+ MSRP car, right?

Daaaaamn!


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## ChrisFu (Jun 9, 2012)

Travis Grundke said:


> And if you haven't driven the ATS - it's a damned fine car. Biggest two gripes were the position of the armrest (fine for automatic, terrible when shifting in 6MT config) and the engine was a bit more coarse than I'm used to. Not bad, mind you, just not Audi levels of refinement on a turbo 4.


The haptic HVAC/radio controls are *absolutely *maddening to try and use while driving. Maybe that was the idea? (lol right)


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## Hubble (Jul 26, 2010)

dmorrow said:


> I agree with the above and have some of the same thoughts but I currently drive an older A3.
> 
> For me the price of the S3 compared to the ATS is the opposite because for the money I would prefer used. Seems pretty easy to get a one year old ATS with less than 10k miles on it for less than $35k (even the 3.6 V-6, possibly Premium). For me I question whether a new S3 is worth roughly $10k more than a one year old ATS with low miles.


I hadn't really considered a used ATS. I think I prefer the V6 over the I4 but maybe that's because I only drove the V6. The ATS felt small inside to me and I had some trouble with headroom in the front seat. But if I can get a premium V6 for 35k then it might really be worth it. Thanks for the suggestion. I do like the look of the Caddy and it is fantastic to drive. It's a better chassis than the front drive MQB.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Dan Halen said:


> We're talking about a $47,000+ MSRP car, right?
> 
> Daaaaamn!


Yep, sure is. There's no way I'd buy one new with that kind of depreciation. 

I've driven two of them - one 3.6 and one 2.0. If the 3.6 came with a stick it would be an absolutely perfect combination. 

To the person who commented on the haptics - I agree. It's a frustrating setup. But again, there's a good $10,000 - $15,000 spread between a one year used ATS and a new S3. I'd probably be able to easily overlook some of the ATS' flaws for that kind of savings.


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## 02GOLFGTI1.8T (Feb 13, 2002)

Any chance we will see order guides in dec for the A3 
Is detroit the latest this should happen?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

Hubble said:


> I hadn't really considered a used ATS. I think I prefer the V6 over the I4 but maybe that's because I only drove the V6. The ATS felt small inside to me and I had some trouble with headroom in the front seat. But if I can get a premium V6 for 35k then it might really be worth it. Thanks for the suggestion. I do like the look of the Caddy and it is fantastic to drive. It's a better chassis than the front drive MQB.


Fantastic chassis. I came away supremely impressed after driving both the 3.6 and the 2.0. Nimble, tight. Cadillac did great work with this car. Fix the damned haptic controls, change the armrest configuration to better suite the stick and maybe add a bit more rear leg room and it is a perfect car.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

02GOLFGTI1.8T said:


> Any chance we will see order guides in dec for the A3
> Is detroit the latest this should happen?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk


I originally had heard LA many moons ago, and that obviously did not happen. Next shot is probably Detroit, which makes sense considering the cars should start arriving in March.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

brainofjjj said:


> I've cross shopped the GTI (too small)


FYI - the Mk7 GTI is going to have slightly larger interior and exterior dimensions, in every dimension and is probably going to have exactly the same size "feel" as an A3 (except one is a hatch obv.). Or maybe even feel bigger since it won't be packed full of luxury finishes and features like the A3 will be.

TL: DR - the new A3 will only be slightly larger than an mk6 GTI


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## brennok (Jun 5, 2007)

I am now looking at the following. 

WRX with CVT vs the S3. 

I realize they aren't really on the same level, but the more I think about it the less I want to spend what they will probably want for the S3 with it being a sedan. Since I will already be settling on a sedan over the hatch, I started looking at the WRX. As long as the CVT is close to the DSG and I like what I see I don't see me buying the S3 this year. I could see it 3 years down the line if the Golf R doesn't offer the DSG.


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

my decision has now come down to 60/40- M4/S3.

I was very set on the S3 for months, all along wanting an AWD car, but i've come to realize its not really necessary, so I'm leaning M4 after what was announced a few days ago.
Really loving the cabin in the M3/M4 after hating BMW interiors for a while now, and the performance figures are at 911 levels, if not better.

Whats really pushing me toward the M4 is that Euro Delivery should be available from the start, so I should be able to do one of those come August, which isnt a possibility with the S3 it seems.

In the end, I still have to wait a few weeks for the Detroit show so I can get pricing info for both cars. If the S3 somehow comes out to over 50k with the options I want its a no go. I'm a bit more loose with pricing of the M4 as I'm looking at it from a value perspective compared to the 911.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Surely the M4 will tip $70,000 if you start adding any options? I am not following BMW, but I can't imagine it'll be less than that.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

yeh it'll likely be mid 70s msrp, but with the ED discount, that should bring it down to around 70k which is what i'd like to spend ideally. if the options i want somehow push it to 80k i wont do it for sure; and furthermore, i will never pay over msrp for this or any car, so unless I am guaranteed ED msrp, i wont do it and just go S3.

i wish i could wait for 2nd or 3rd year model years for both cars as i could be guaranteed better pricing, especially with the bimmer, but i've waited too long so thats not a possibility. hopefully audi dealers arent bad with the S3 pricing.


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## JeffreyC (Feb 28, 2014)

Currently have a 2011 GTI. Although my wife learned and competently drove (throughout NYC) the manual transmission in the e28 BMW I owned when we met, she now does not want to drive the manual tranny in my GTI (told me that after I bought it). That combined with my desire to get a few more bells and whistles - back up camera, auto climate control, blind spot warning indicators, parking sensors, all wheel drive, etc. has me looking. 

Looks like the MKVII GTI gives me most of those bells and whistles other than the AWD. Although I like the GTI, I am tired of spinning the front wheels when I take off into traffic. So looking at the Golf R and the A3/S3. Also considered the 2 and 3 series BMWs, but I just don't love the look of either (inside or out) and I probably cannot live with a 2 door car (the 2 series) since I have a pair of 8 year old kids. Originally thought I would go with the A3 Prestige 2.0, but now that I am solidly middle age and have the cash, I think I will splurge on a fully loaded S3. Just hope I don't have to wait too long and can get the color and options I want. I assume I can always order a car with my desired color and options as long as I am willing to wait a few months? Might even fly to Germany to pick it up.


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## lotuselan (Apr 9, 2008)

Travis Grundke said:


> Fantastic chassis. I came away supremely impressed after driving both the 3.6 and the 2.0. Nimble, tight. Cadillac did great work with this car. Fix the damned haptic controls, change the armrest configuration to better suite the stick and maybe add a bit more rear leg room and it is a perfect car.


Am I the only one who thought the ATS manual box was a piece of krap?


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## Chuck2001 (Aug 12, 2011)

JeffreyC said:


> Might even fly to Germany to pick it up.


You would be so lucky !

How cool is that...picking your car from the factory and combine with a vacation in Europe.

Wow


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

lotuselan said:


> Am I the only one who thought the ATS manual box was a piece of krap?


I tested an ATS 2.0T 6MT a few months back and enjoyed it a lot - with one major exception: the armrest has a half-moon cut out of it in the front and my damned elbow kept getting caught in it while shifting! Drove me bonkers!


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

For those interested in the M235 (which I have on way) there's an xDrive version starting production in July, will arrive same time as S3 hit the US.


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

BEM10001 said:


> For those interested in the M235 (which I have on way) there's an xDrive version starting production in July, will arrive same time as S3 hit the US.


Where did you hear that from?


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Canthoney said:


> Where did you hear that from?


Seen it a number of places including here. Note July production = Sept / Oct delivery. 

http://www.autoevolution.com/bmw-blog/bmw-m235i-will-get-xdrive-this-year-74494.html

I'm not waiting bc I can't, next car will be either xDrive M235 or S3 depending on how I like this one.


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

BEM10001 said:


> Seen it a number of places including here. Note July production = Sept / Oct delivery.
> 
> http://www.autoevolution.com/bmw-blog/bmw-m235i-will-get-xdrive-this-year-74494.html
> 
> I'm not waiting bc I can't, next car will be either xDrive M235 or S3 depending on how I like this one.


Mmmm that sounds good. That V-6 is probably the best in the biz. I'll have to take a look at one.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Canthoney said:


> Mmmm that sounds good. That V-6 is probably the best in the biz. I'll have to take a look at one.


It is an amazing engine. I really wish I could wait til fall, for now snow tires and RWD drive will have to do. 

Nothing confirmed yet but since not based on FWD architecture, xDrive shouldn't suffer from same issues as CLA45 4matic system and what I think S3 Quattro will be. 300+ Bhp in front biased AWD systems isn't ideal in my opinion.


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

Canthoney said:


> Mmmm that sounds good. That V-6 is probably the best in the biz. I'll have to take a look at one.


Im pretty sure its an I-6


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## twenzel (Jan 20, 2011)

CPO 2013 S4
2014 SQ5

I'm almost wanting the S4 more at this point because it has true Quattro. I really wanted the S3 in Sepang blue and that is looking more and more unlikely everyday.


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## m3cosmos (Apr 28, 2011)

1. F80 M3
2. C63 507
3. CLA 45
4. New booster/cayman
5. Mitsubishi evo

Currently sticking with the CLA due to all-wheel-drive. And all the snow this year. If I don't like it maybe trade for Quattro sport next year?


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

I'm probably going to wait and test drive a 2.0 A3 and then some other cars before making a decision.. but I'm leaning strongly on getting a lightly used 2013 370z, driving that for a couple years and reevaluate what audi is doing.

on the list is:

CPO S4 and S5
CPO Audi TT RS


Of all those the TT RS is the biggest stretch due to A) manual B) price/availability. (I'd put up with a manual for the TT RS) So I'll probably drive the A3, then a S4/5, then a 370z. I realize the 370z is not in the same segment as the other cars. But it is a lot cheaper and something I could definitely live with and ENJOY for 2 years. I'm less willing to plunk 50k down on a S3 that isn't going to do what was initially advertised. I'd rather spend something on the order of 30k and see what develops, especially in regards to the new A4/S5 coming out.

I just gotta make sure family is on board. I do have a 2.5 yo child, but I can count on 1 hand how many times I put her in my car. And most of those times was more out of novelty than necessity so I think it's something we could pull off. If not, then my step-mother lives 7 miles away and has a spare car we could use if we round ourselves in dire straights. Essentially, I wouldnt be perfectly happy with any of those choices for the price .. except maybe the Z.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BEM10001 said:


> Nothing confirmed yet but since not based on FWD architecture, xDrive shouldn't suffer from same issues as CLA45 4matic system and what I think S3 Quattro will be. 300+ Bhp in front biased AWD systems isn't ideal in my opinion.


What are these issues you speak of? I agree that 300HP in a front-driver is about pointless, but in an AWD configuration, what does it really matter if it has a front bias if most of the power can be sent to the rear wheels as needed? I recall hearing that fifth-gen Haldex can do just that, no? I could understand the concern if they were calling it AWD with maximum torque transfer of 10% to the rear, but they're not.

It's similar to the “it's not _real_ quattro" argument used in favor of the S4. Sure, but for the practical use for the car, it doesn't matter. If I'm buying something where I'm that concerned, I'm not buying an Audi. I'm not buying a Mercedes. I'm not buying a BMW.

I think you have it right with the RWD M235i, anyway. Buy BMW for RWD, buy something else for AWD, IMO.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> What are these issues you speak of? I agree that 300HP in a front-driver is about pointless, but in an AWD configuration, what does it really matter if it has a front bias if most of the power can be sent to the rear wheels as needed? I recall hearing that fifth-gen Haldex can do just that, no? I could understand the concern if they were calling it AWD with maximum torque transfer of 10% to the rear, but they're not.
> 
> It's similar to the “it's not _real_ quattro" argument used in favor of the S4. Sure, but for the practical use for the car, it doesn't matter. If I'm buying something where I'm that concerned, I'm not buying an Audi. I'm not buying a Mercedes. I'm not buying a BMW.
> 
> I think you have it right with the RWD M235i, anyway. Buy BMW for RWD, buy something else for AWD, IMO.


I forget all the specific specs on the different systems, but the Benz specifically is heavily front wheel focused most of the time for fuel economy and power is sent to the rear when needed for traction, etc. Agree RWD is best for pure handling and AWD makes some compromises in that department for other advantages. Something like "real Quattro," certain Porsches etc are evenly balanced or even rear biased and send more power up front as needed. For a performance car I just think that's a better way to go. Had a similar convo with head of the Porsche dealer in town (family friend and total gear head) and he shared the same opinion. No matter what you spend on a car, $5k or $500k, always making compromises. Just have to find whatever is closest to what you want to spend your $ on. All these systems have ups and downs.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Funny you mention P-cars as that's where I'm going if I want raw handling over all else...

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

Dan Halen said:


> Funny you mention P-cars as that's where I'm going if I want raw handling over all else...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


So if this had another 30-40 hp it would be useless? k

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6926367-Seat-Le%F3n-Cupra-sets-FWD-Nurburgring-record


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Dan Halen said:


> Funny you mention P-cars as that's where I'm going if I want raw handling over all else...
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


They make some nice cars, that's for sure. Super stoked to drive dad's new Macan Turbo in a few weeks (yes I realize I'm off the raw handling topic there!)


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

HalvieCuw said:


> So if this had another 30-40 hp it would be useless? k
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6926367-Seat-Le%F3n-Cupra-sets-FWD-Nurburgring-record


Do you only come here to post with an antagonistic tone?

That's impressive, sure, but let me know when that a) represents the average front-driver and b) can be purchased here.

And without being able to thrash it myself with 300HP, no, I can't say whether that particular example would be pointless. And neither can you.

Lastly, pointless ≠ useless.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BEM10001 said:


> They make some nice cars, that's for sure. Super stoked to drive dad's new Macan Turbo in a few weeks (yes I realize I'm off the raw handling topic there!)


The Macan is damn sharp.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

Dan Halen said:


> *Do you only come here to post with an antagonistic tone?
> *
> That's impressive, sure, but let me know when that a) represents the average front-driver and b) can be purchased here.
> 
> ...


I come to this part of the forum be be antagonistic and disappointed.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Hah! You're in the right place for the latter if the overall mood in recent threads is any indication.


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## Negesh (Jun 6, 2010)

I've had a deposit down on an S3 since October but my excitement towards it has cooled quite a bit since. I recently checked out the new m235i and came away impressed, I think the xdrive version will be very solid competition for the S3. It is more money, but its also arguably more car.

That and my BMW dealer is much better to deal with (willing to deal on the cars, better communication and service ect), so that has me tempted to jump ship.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Negesh said:


> I've had a deposit down on an S3 since October but my excitement towards it has cooled quite a bit since. I recently checked out the new m235i and came away impressed, I think the xdrive version will be very solid competition for the S3. It is more money, but its also arguably more car.
> 
> That and my BMW dealer is much better to deal with (willing to deal on the cars, better communication and service ect), so that has me tempted to jump ship.


Not sure if you are planning to lease but the residual on the M235 is also 63%, very strong compared to even the M3/M4 which I think is in the low 50% range. Has to be better than what the S3 will come in at.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

BEM10001 said:


> Not sure if you are planning to lease but the residual on the M235 is also 63%, very strong compared to even the M3/M4 which I think is in the low 50% range. Has to be better than what the S3 will come in at.


That's an outstanding residual. I have a local buddy who just canceled his S3 order this morning in light of the 235 as well.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Travis Grundke said:


> That's an outstanding residual. I have a local buddy who just canceled his S3 order this morning in light of the 235 as well.


From the folks I have spoken with they are trying for a very strong launch on the 2-series since the 1 never did as well as they hoped. Keep in mind the numbers they are quoting now (and that I referenced) are for MY 2014 cars, 2015 (with xDrive) will start production in July for fall delivery, unsure on pricing / deals there.


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## Negesh (Jun 6, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> From the folks I have spoken with they are trying for a very strong launch on the 2-series since the 1 never did as well as they hoped. Keep in mind the numbers they are quoting now (and that I referenced) are for MY 2014 cars, 2015 (with xDrive) will start production in July for fall delivery, unsure on pricing / deals there.


I live in Canada but if it helps the xdrive version will carry a $3750 CAD premium over the RWD version however that includes standard automatic transmission (manual not available with AWD; auto is $1600 option for RWD m235i). I believe in the US, auto is standard for RWD version so i'm guessing your xdrive version will carry a ~$2000 premium.

Just a guess though.


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

Negesh said:


> I live in Canada but if it helps the xdrive version will carry a $3750 CAD premium over the RWD version however that includes standard automatic transmission (manual not available with AWD; auto is $1600 option for RWD m235i). I believe in the US, auto is standard for RWD version so i'm guessing your xdrive version will carry a ~$2000 premium.
> 
> Just a guess though.


That feels about right, but MSRP as well still TBD for MY2015. Read somewhere CAD guys are going to get hurt w/ exchange rate if nothing else when they reset for MY2015 but that's purely speculation. Guys are typically getting $1500-$2500 USD off right now, better deals should be had in fall anyway once the car isn't brand new. So $2K extra now might cost you $1500, $2K extra in fall maybe $1K after negotiate your deal. Just food for thought.


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## Negesh (Jun 6, 2010)

BEM10001 said:


> That feels about right, but MSRP as well still TBD for MY2015. Read somewhere CAD guys are going to get hurt w/ exchange rate if nothing else when they reset for MY2015 but that's purely speculation. Guys are typically getting $1500-$2500 USD off right now, better deals should be had in fall anyway once the car isn't brand new. So $2K extra now might cost you $1500, $2K extra in fall maybe $1K after negotiate your deal. Just food for thought.


Yeah its hard to say how things will react to the exchange rates, I am hopeful that we don't get burned toooooo bad. All signs are pointing to June for order guides / pricing so still a ways to go before we know for sure.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I just built a $51,800 M235i that would tick every option box my S3 will tick, with the exception of AWD. That's not bad, but I have two fundamental issues- it's a two-door, and it's a BMW. I'm just not at the point yet that I care to drag that stigma around with me. I don't really care what the xDrive version would cost as, if I'm buying a BMW, I'm buying RWD.

I also don't care for the interior, though it's on the less offensive end of current interiors. It's just a bit too busy for me, but with the A3/S3 as the yardstick, anything is going to be busy. It does look well put together, though.


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## JeffreyC (Feb 28, 2014)

My thoughts exactly. With 2 little kids I need a 4 door car and I am so tired of the whole BMW thing. I had a new 2001 530i back in the day and I don't need or want another one as I think they are overrated. A friend of mine has an M3 and my MKVI GTI is much more fun to drive.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

Do people really need 4 doors for their kid(s)? Unless it's your primary kid hauler you can probably get away with having a 2 door for the occasional need to haul your kid around? Totally understand if it's the primary vehicle your kid(s) go into, but unless you have a really bad back I don't see a secondary car with 2 doors being a huge hindrance.


Disclaimer* I have a slightly wonky back.


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## JeffreyC (Feb 28, 2014)

I guess if I otherwise loved the car and there were no good options I could live with 2 doors, but there are too many times that I am picking up and dropping off the kids and prefer not to get out of the car to let them in/out. Plus 2 door cars have longer doors and the kids are more prone to swing them into the car next door (if they are letting themselves out on the passenger side) - especially in our 1910s vintage narrow garage. Another reason why the A3/S3 works for me.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

JeffreyC said:


> I guess if I otherwise loved the car and there were no good options I could live with 2 doors, but there are too many times that I am picking up and dropping off the kids and prefer not to get out of the car to let them in/out. Plus 2 door cars have longer doors and the kids are more prone to swing them into the car next door (if they are letting themselves out on the passenger side) - especially in our 1910s vintage narrow garage. Another reason why the A3/S3 works for me.


Ok that makes perfect sense. My wife is a stay at home mom, so her car is essentially the child mobile. She's only 2.5 but I've rarely had her in my car, and even rarer had a NEED to put her in my car.


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## .:Ru4dubn¿ (Mar 14, 2012)

Revising my original answer to include:
*B9 S4* (if they can make it more nimble)
*GLA45*
*M235* (gran coupe or whatever name they have for the four door if it ever comes; i.e. a small, 4 door fast BMW)
*Jag XE*

I was ready to buy the S3 this fall, but its looking like I'll wait it out to 2015/2016 MY list above, or maybe the S3 if they de-gimp it for the US market in the future.


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## jrwamp (Mar 25, 2011)

.:Ru4dubn¿ said:


> Revising my original answer to include:
> *B9 S4* (if they can make it more nimble)
> *GLA45*
> *M235* (gran coupe or whatever name they have for the four door if it ever comes; i.e. a small, 4 door fast BMW)
> ...


I'm with you on a BMW m235i gran coupe. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

I've decided to pass on the S3 and get myself an S4 for now. Found myself a nice used S4 that I'll be picking up this week. After going for a test ride and judging from the grin on my face it was the right choice for me right now, especially since I needed a new vehicle pronto. 

In 2-3 years I may reconsider the S3 again, but for now the below beauty should do nicely - 2013 S4 Premium Plus 6MT w/sport diff. 










Oh - and the s4 goes better with my screen name. :laugh:


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## .:Ru4dubn¿ (Mar 14, 2012)

That's purdy, nice choice!


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

v6er said:


> I've decided to pass on the S3 and get myself an S4 for now. Found myself a nice used S4 that I'll be picking up this week. After going for a test ride and judging from the grin on my face it was the right choice for me right now, especially since I needed a new vehicle pronto.
> 
> In 2-3 years I may reconsider the S3 again, but for now the below beauty should do nicely - 2013 S4 Premium Plus 6MT w/sport diff.
> 
> ...


niceee, how much did it cost ya?


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

v6er said:


> I've decided to pass on the S3 and get myself an S4 for now. Found myself a nice used S4 that I'll be picking up this week. After going for a test ride and judging from the grin on my face it was the right choice for me right now, especially since I needed a new vehicle pronto.
> 
> In 2-3 years I may reconsider the S3 again, but for now the below beauty should do nicely - 2013 S4 Premium Plus 6MT w/sport diff.
> 
> ...





.:Ru4dubn¿ said:


> That's purdy, nice choice!


+1 on price quesion. :laugh: Looks fantastic in white. I'm kind of in the same situation. It's on the high side of my short list along with a S5. I'm torn between getting a cheap sports car (2013 370z), a 2013 used S4/5, and the S3. I'm trying to wait till I can get a test drive in the base 2.0 until I test drive the rest. There are a couple 2013 370z's, essentially fully loaded with under 5k miles going for 32-34k. Very tempting to pick one up and drive it for a few years and let the S3 mature a bit, and or let the 2013+ S4/5's come down in price when they release the B9. 

Sometimes I feel like time is not on my side.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Congrats on the S4. Enjoy it.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

That thing is fantastic in white.


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

caliatenza said:


> niceee, how much did it cost ya?


Best I could do was 45,500. Not a screaming deal but a fair deal I think.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

v6er said:


> Best I could do was 45,500. Not a screaming deal but a fair deal I think.


How many miles and is it p+/prestige? Well equipped?


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

The DarkSide said:


> How many miles and is it p+/prestige? Well equipped?


'
-Premium + 
-Nav
-B&O
-Full Leather
-Sport Diff
-Advance Key
-Just over 12k miles

Trying to find a white 6MT S4 with sport diff isn't as easy as I thought it would be.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

v6er said:


> '
> -Premium +
> -Nav
> -B&O
> ...


Wow very nice. I'd prob go all in on one at that price with that many miles /features if it were DSG.


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## JeffreyC (Feb 28, 2014)

Anyone consider / drive the Mercedez C300 4Matic ? (the current model) Probably more luxury than performance, but I wonder what opinions there are?


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## Hubble (Jul 26, 2010)

Okay, so I've cooled on the S3 a lot. Reviews of the A3 are out, and they are a mixed bag, with R&T issuing a scathing review for taller drivers. At 6"3" I'm pretty skinny and fit where a lot of other tall folks can't, but I don't want to be looking at the B pillar all the time. 

I also went to go drive the Chevy SS because it just sounds awesome and I cooled on that one as well. It just felt big and the transmission just didn't do it for me. It would be a really nice freeway car but I mostly drive on city streets.

Right after the slight disappointment with the SS, I wandered onto Cadillac to look over the ATS again and the salesman took me out in a 2014 CTS Vsport and I was blown away. It was everything I wanted the SS to be but also way more comfortable. This thing sang. It was wonderfully balanced, turn in was delicate and immediate. The ride was impeccable, and the engine sounded sweet and was ridiculously quick. I fit very nicely in the front seat, there was plenty of room for my 2.5 year old twins in the back even if the backseat is rather small for a 195" car (I will be picking them up or taking them to preschool for the next 4-5 years). The base CTS Vsport comes in at 60k with all the options most people really need (except for a sunroof oddly. Good thing I don't' care) and with my GM loyalty cash and a bit of haggling I'm looking at about $56k.

The only thing keeping me back is I'm waiting to sit in the A3 because I generally prefer a smaller car, and while the CTS drives small, it won't park small.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

v6er said:


> Best I could do was 45,500. Not a screaming deal but a fair deal I think.


hmmn; yeah i might be inclined to go with a new A3 Prestige at that price; i'd love an S4 but the A3 is already too much for me lol.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

I keep coming back to the A3/S3, but keeping these under consideration though I need to do a serious examination of features/content for the dollars.

Regal GS AWD (though stepping down to the regular Premium II Turbo saves a few dollars, the GS from what a read is a bit more of a drivers car).
Chrysler 200 S/C AWD (say what you will about its looks, pedigree whatever, but they're there on the tech/reliability front based on our Durango experience).
Fusion AWD (though I hate Sync, by the time I'm ready, hopefully its been replaced with a QNX based system. FCA uses QNX for UConnect and it works very well).

I have access to supplier pricing for all three of these through my employer, so the pricing will be good on any of those options.

MkVII Golf R. I think I can get past the looks and interior. Not sure I can get past the small infotainment screen.

What else is there with AWD? Subaru? CVT = no sale no matter how good it is.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

I meant to include it in my original list but I would consider a CPO Audi TTS as well. The interior is a bit old, but it has the performance I'd want, and it'd have a back seat... that my 2.5yo daughter might be able to fit in. :laugh:

I'm trying to hold off test driving any other cars until I can at least test drive the A3 2.0 because I know if I do I'll probably won't wait until I test drive the A3 before making a decision.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

The DarkSide said:


> I meant to include it in my original list but I would consider a CPO Audi TTS as well. The interior is a bit old, but it has the performance I'd want, and it'd have a back seat... that my 2.5yo daughter might be able to fit in. :laugh:
> 
> I'm trying to hold off test driving any other cars until I can at least test drive the A3 2.0 because I know if I do I'll probably won't wait until I test drive the A3 before making a decision.


I was able to test drive a 370z yesterday. I think it's dropped a couple notches on my list. I had a 350z roadster in 2010... The interior of the 370z felt SUPER small in comparison. Visibility out the back was the worst I've experienced... The blind spot due to the B pillar was also the worst (made me think of the A3 review lol). Also, the engine seemed overly loud inside. It did however sound much better than the 350z I had.

Overall I liked it though. Just caught off guard with how it felt almost claustrophobic. They only had a manual, I'll prob try and find an auto to test drive before writing it off completely. Funny story on the manual - it had been almost 4 years since driving one. I couldn't find out why the car wouldn't start.. oh yeah that 3rd pedal lol. Then, when I was braking pretty hard for a light, I tried to down shift with the paddles that did not exist behind the steering wheel. :laugh: Their revmatch IS pretty awesome though.

After that I went to the audi dealership, with hope they had a CPO S4/5 or TTS. While the sales lady at Nissan was very nice, the person I met at the Audi dealership was... I don't know. He basically (but not literally) laughed at me when I asked, then proceeded to tell me that it was "super rare" for dealerships to have CPO S4/5 and TTS's and that when they do, they sell quickly because all the salespeople have requests for them. (that's why I see the same cars online for weeks+ at a time). Anyway, he treated me in a manner that it felt like I was being blown off. I'll prob avoid them in the future. They DID have a new A3 there, but only a 1.8T. I sat in it but didn't request a test drive. I liked the interior overall. Might be a bit TOO spartan for me, but it would probably grow on me.


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## BrutusA3 (Jul 10, 2013)

davewg said:


> What else is there with AWD? Subaru? CVT = no sale no matter how good it is.


Here are a couple cars new this year as well with AWD option.
Acura TLX SHAWD.
Volvo S60/v60.

Good luck.


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## outshined (Jul 30, 2011)

There are quite a few new A3 listings on cars.com already. Most of them are generic, but still some good browsing material.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

outshined said:


> There are quite a few new A3 listings on cars.com already. Most of them are generic, but still some good browsing material.


Yep, I'm glad to see them but will be glad when the backlog of low-spec, no-color launch cars is depleted so that some actual variety will start showing up.


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> Yep, I'm glad to see them but will be glad when the backlog of low-spec, no-color launch cars is depleted so that some actual variety will start showing up.


+1.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

Dan Halen said:


> Yep, I'm glad to see them but will be glad when the backlog of low-spec, no-color launch cars is depleted so that some actual variety will start showing up.


Why do you think audi decided to put out such.. blah colors to start? price?


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

The DarkSide said:


> Why do you think audi decided to put out such.. blah colors to start? price?


Americans dig safe "blah" colors. Granted, there's really not much that isn't "blah" in the A3 option list, but white, silver, grey, and black take that to a new level. There's a small proportion of Scuba Blue, and almost no Shiraz Red and absolutely no Beluga Brown. The couple opinions I've heard, though, point toward it remaining that way. Beluga Brown will get dropped before the PI cycle due to lack of orders, and Shiraz Red probably won't fare much better. That's my wager...


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## DaLeadBull (Feb 15, 2011)

Dan Halen said:


> Americans dig safe "blah" colors. Granted, there's really not much that isn't "blah" in the A3 option list, but white, silver, grey, and black take that to a new level. There's a small proportion of Scuba Blue, and almost no Shiraz Red and absolutely no Beluga Brown. The couple opinions I've heard, though, point toward it remaining that way. Beluga Brown will get dropped before the PI cycle due to lack of orders, and Shiraz Red probably won't fare much better. That's my wager...


I agree, I blame the American consumers for the lack of color choices. The American consumer in general is a self conscious turd but at the same time is over critical of others. We worry too much about what others think of us and when someone actually picks a yellow or brown we call it "piss yellow" or "sh** brown" etc.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

DaLeadBull said:


> I agree, I blame the American consumers for the lack of color choices. The American consumer in general is a self conscious turd but at the same time is over critical of others. We worry too much about what others think of us and when someone actually picks a yellow or brown we call it "piss yellow" or "sh** brown" etc.


If my piss is Imola Yellow, I have much bigger issues to address. :laugh:


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

Dan Halen said:


> Americans dig safe "blah" colors. Granted, there's really not much that isn't "blah" in the A3 option list, but white, silver, grey, and black take that to a new level. There's a small proportion of Scuba Blue, and almost no Shiraz Red and absolutely no Beluga Brown. The couple opinions I've heard, though, point toward it remaining that way. Beluga Brown will get dropped before the PI cycle due to lack of orders, and Shiraz Red probably won't fare much better. That's my wager...


Blah- here's to hoping Shiraz Red lasts long enough for me to be ready...


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

Dan Halen said:


> Americans dig safe "blah" colors. Granted, there's really not much that isn't "blah" in the A3 option list, but white, silver, grey, and black take that to a new level. There's a small proportion of Scuba Blue, and almost no Shiraz Red and absolutely no Beluga Brown. The couple opinions I've heard, though, point toward it remaining that way. Beluga Brown will get dropped before the PI cycle due to lack of orders, and Shiraz Red probably won't fare much better. That's my wager...


Ahh that makes sense. I'm a pretty big fan of white. Certain cars in silver, if only because I discovered that silver never looks dirty in comparison to any other color I've had.. therefore I've felt less compelled to wash it all the time.


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## sonic_va (Jul 2, 2006)

To answer the original question:

1. 2015 VW GTI or Golf
2. 2014 VW GLI 30th AE
3. Mini Countryman

So far it's the A3 or waiting to see the GTI since I loved my MkV and VI and have a thing for hatchbacks. :thumbup:


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

Test drove a s4 and s5 yesterday... I really really liked the S5. >.<

Which was surprising since I thought it was just a 2 door s4. 

My search for the perfect s5 is on... If it takes long enough maybe I'll see the S3 as an alternative.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

The DarkSide said:


> Ahh that makes sense. I'm a pretty big fan of white. Certain cars in silver, if only because I discovered that silver never looks dirty in comparison to any other color I've had.. therefore I've felt less compelled to wash it all the time.


white used to be my favorite color but i've had too much bad luck with white . I'm liking the blue and grey on the A3 though


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

The DarkSide said:


> Test drove a s4 and s5 yesterday... I really really liked the S5. >.<
> 
> Which was surprising since I thought it was just a 2 door s4.
> 
> My search for the perfect s5 is on... If it takes long enough maybe I'll see the S3 as an alternative.


Would've loved to get into an s5, unfortunately I need something resembling a back seat so I had to go with the S4 myself. Either way the motor in S4/S5 is addicting. :laugh:


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## BEM10001 (May 14, 2007)

The DarkSide said:


> Test drove a s4 and s5 yesterday... I really really liked the S5. >.<
> 
> Which was surprising since I thought it was just a 2 door s4.
> 
> My search for the perfect s5 is on... If it takes long enough maybe I'll see the S3 as an alternative.


I drove both back to back as well, was SHOCKED at how much more I liked the S5 as well. Figured same platform etc. would be more or less the same.


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

Maybe this will help you with your decision, C&D's s5 vs 435i comparison. 

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-audi-s5-vs-2014-bmw-435i-comparison-test


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

Golf R


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

v6er said:


> Would've loved to get into an s5, unfortunately I need something resembling a back seat so I had to go with the S4 myself. Either way the motor in S4/S5 is addicting. :laugh:


I was cleared by the wife to get a 2 seater if I wanted. I ended up nixing the 370z as it felt almost claustrophobic and the rear/side visibility was the worst I've experienced. I have a hard time turning my neck sometimes due to multiple surgeries. Also, it felt like it was super loud in there. I was pretty disappointed, as I really do like the style of the car and getting back into a 2 seat sports car really appeals to me. My brother suggested getting a Cayman, but I couldnt find any S's in my budget range with decently low miles. But yes, that motor is pretty sweet. :laugh:



BEM10001 said:


> I drove both back to back as well, was SHOCKED at how much more I liked the S5 as well. Figured same platform etc. would be more or less the same.


Yeah.. I guess I'd use the word "shocked" too. I drove the S5 first. We have a 2011 A4 Avant for the child, but I was not expecting it to feel so different. I think the only way I get into the a S4 is if I find a killer deal compared to a S5. Right now tho I'm REALLY looking hard for a S5. Next week I'll be putting the stock rims back on the GTI in prep for getting rid of it.. I'm trying to find one that has nav/b&o, sports diff, and adaptive suspension and not black. It seems like the adaptive suspension is pretty rare. I also wouldn't mind lane assist, or the option that monitors the road and moves the steering wheel if you start to doze off. 



v6er said:


> Maybe this will help you with your decision, C&D's s5 vs 435i comparison.
> 
> http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2014-audi-s5-vs-2014-bmw-435i-comparison-test


Well dayum. I don't think I've ever read a review that said steering feel is better on an audi over a bmw. Also, that's a pretty strong trap speed and 1/4 for a manual!


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

It's not the first time C/D has been pleased with the A5/S5 in the past. They had a single vehicle review back in December '12

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-audi-s5-30t-manual-instrumented-test-review


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## v6er (Dec 18, 2000)

You'll probably have a harder time finding one with sport diff. Do get the sport diff though, well worth it. Adaptive suspension is nice but not necessary IMHO especially if you ever decide to upgrade the suspension. Also go for a newer model with the v6. V8 is nice but perf upgrades on the v8 are limited as far as I know. 



The DarkSide said:


> I was cleared by the wife to get a 2 seater if I wanted. I ended up nixing the 370z as it felt almost claustrophobic and the rear/side visibility was the worst I've experienced. I have a hard time turning my neck sometimes due to multiple surgeries. Also, it felt like it was super loud in there. I was pretty disappointed, as I really do like the style of the car and getting back into a 2 seat sports car really appeals to me. My brother suggested getting a Cayman, but I couldnt find any S's in my budget range with decently low miles. But yes, that motor is pretty sweet. :laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

v6er said:


> You'll probably have a harder time finding one with sport diff. Do get the sport diff though, well worth it. Adaptive suspension is nice but not necessary IMHO especially if you ever decide to upgrade the suspension. Also go for a newer model with the v6. V8 is nice but perf upgrades on the v8 are limited as far as I know.


Thanks for the advice! I'm only looking at 2013's as I'm not at all interested in the V8 and I like the updated styling MUCH more.

In my area there are actually plenty of S5's to be had with the sport diff. My 3 primary requirements are sport diff, nav, and adaptive suspension. I can usually find 2 but not 3. The ones that do have 3 are ~150-200 miles away. I'm interested in the adaptive suspension since I commute into DC 2-3 times a week and the roads can get pretty rough. That said I found the non-adaptive suspension fairly good at absorbing holes/bumps during part of my test drive. So if I get frustrated I'll prob nix that upgrade. I'd love to find one that has the drive assist package as well.. I think only the prestige models have it though as an option. The idea of having the car stay in the lane if I start to doze off would be pretty awesome. (Something I fight often lately, long commute, little sleep) That would be icing on the cake tho and not really expecting to find one at my price w/low enough miles.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.


I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.


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## Travis Grundke (May 26, 1999)

The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.


DarkSide -

I'm so sorry to hear about this turn. Best of luck to you.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.


Darkside, also sorry to hear this news. While I enjoy getting on here and talking about cars it makes me think about how little they really matter. Good luck and I hope for the best.


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

You'll beat it! I'm doing a charity bike ride to support cancer research and treatment 2nd yr in a roll. I did it last yr to support my friend, he beat it and this yr he's riding. All the best!


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## JDBVR6 (Dec 29, 2006)

The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.



I'm so sorry to hear about this man.  I wish you the best of luck with your treatment.


My grandmother is a breast cancer survivor, so do not give up hope. Stay strong. :thumbup:


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.



Ugh. So sorry to hear this . Stay strong and positive.

If able please keep us posted on how you're doing. Enjoy the Z.


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## JOES1.8T (Sep 8, 2003)

The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.


Darkside, I don't personally know you, but I am truly sorry to hear the bad news. As some have said already, stay strong and positive and from our family here, we wish you and your family the best. 

My mother as well was a breast cancer survivor, so I know your situation.


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## Canthoney (Aug 5, 2012)

The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.


😔
Darkside, very sad to hear this. I know I don't know you, but I almost lost my dad to cancer last year. I hope there a way for you to go back in remission. Stay strong man and don't give up hope. 

I'll be praying for you and your wife.


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

JOES1.8T said:


> Darkside, I don't personally know you, but I am truly sorry to hear the bad news. As some have said already, stay strong and positive and from our family here, we wish you and your family the best.
> 
> My mother as well was a breast cancer survivor, so I know your situation.


x2. 

I couldn't say it better. :beer:


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## The Car Czar (Apr 4, 2014)

DarkSide: Please do make it through. Getting through the chemo is very tough -- maybe the toughest challenge in this disease.

Sending one big Stay Tough your way.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

Make it count.


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## nickjs1984 (Jul 30, 2009)

Is there anything we could do to help? If not for you directly, for your family? A cause you care about? It seems silly to not leverage the support of such an engaged (some may even say, insanely engaged) community. 

Wishing you all the best going forward...



The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.


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## MaX PL (Apr 10, 2006)

darkside, i'm willing to lend you my car when i get it if you're up for it and live in the NY area.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Darkside, take care and stay strong!


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## Pat_McGroin (Oct 17, 2010)

Darkside, like all the other have said, I wish you and your family the best.


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## jubasa (Oct 15, 2010)

The DarkSide said:


> My search for a Audi S5 is over. I won't be getting an Audi S4/5 or an S3. I posted in another thread that I was a cancer survivor. I learned last Friday my cancer was back and that the outcome for my survival is "very low." I start chemo next week. My GTI still needs to be replaced (just at the point I don't want to deal with niggling little problems). So I'm probably going to trade it in on a 2012-2013 nissan 370z. That way I still get a fast and fun car but don't financially hurt my wife after I'm gone. 370z has some things I didn't like about it, it's not a car I'd want to own for 3-4 years. But 6-12 months? Yeah, that's about perfect.
> 
> 
> I'll continue to post on here and hope that some how make it through and have the opportunity to get into an Audi S3 or 5 in the future.. We will see. I have hope.


Very sorry to hear of this DarkSide. My mother went through this. It is very hard on your body and even more so on your mind, but you've fought through this before and you can do it again. You have a young family and many great moments to look forward to. Remember that when you're feeling down. I wish you and your family the very best.


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

davewg said:


> Ugh. So sorry to hear this . Stay strong and positive.
> 
> If able please keep us posted on how you're doing. Enjoy the Z.


Thanks Dave, I'll prob post a pic or two, maybe. Depends on how I'm feeling I have fairly high photography expectations and we'll see if I have the energy to fulfill them.



lilmira said:


> You'll beat it! I'm doing a charity bike ride to support cancer research and treatment 2nd yr in a roll. I did it last yr to support my friend, he beat it and this yr he's riding. All the best!


That's awesome! I've heard a lot of feel good stories. This is the 4th time this cancer has come back (I've also had skin cancer for a 5th time, but it was such a joke I barely even count it). I still have hope.. it's just I'm a pragmatic person in general.



nickjs1984 said:


> Is there anything we could do to help? If not for you directly, for your family? A cause you care about? It seems silly to not leverage the support of such an engaged (some may even say, insanely engaged) community.
> 
> Wishing you all the best going forward...


It surprises me sometimes how altruistic people can be to a complete stranger. I got a similar suggestion/offer on facebook from an acquaintance. As long as I "pass away" with employed at my current job and my insurance doesn't try to back stab me, my wife and child should be in good financial shape and taken care of for 2-3 years. I'll ask the mods, but I plan to walk in the race for hope (brain tumor, even tho that's not exactly what I have, but is what will end up being terminal) in DC in May. I'll ask the Mods about asking for donations, I don't want to break any rules.



MaX PL said:


> darkside, i'm willing to lend you my car when i get it if you're up for it and live in the NY area.


Again.. I'm amazed at how kind people are.  I really didn't think too much when I posted this. Just that I was sad (for multiple reasons) but I was super excited about getting into a S5, and or eventually a S3. Thank you for the offer but I'd never feel comfortable taking someone up on such an offer. :thumbup:



jubasa said:


> Very sorry to hear of this DarkSide. My mother went through this. It is very hard on your body and even more so on your mind, but you've fought through this before and you can do it again. You have a young family and many great moments to look forward to. Remember that when you're feeling down. I wish you and your family the very best.


I watched my mom die a slow and painful death from brain cancer. I don't have brain cancer, I started off with a fairly rare and treatable cancer (parotid) .. except the actual type of cancer I had (not location of cancer) was extremely rare. There are no large volume studies that dictates the best treatment. It's best guess + clinical trial. Maybe I'll get lucky! I've certainly rolled the dice poorly thus far (80% of parotid tumors are benign, 1% of them are the type of cancer I have. My hospital see's 45k outpatients a year and they have 1-3 people a year with the same type of cancer as myself, except they are usually in their 50's). 

Anyways, I didn't expect such an outpouring of posts. I apologize for taking the thread off topic. I DO appreciate reading all the supportive posts though. On one hand, it seems STUPID to be upset that I won't be getting into a new car like I wanted.. but at the same time, it was supposed to be my "you've been fighting cancer since 2012 and beaten it, you deserve it, reward car." I've spent countless hours researching and day dreaming about upgrading, etc. It sucks but in the end it's such a small unimportant thing. At least I'll get to "settle" with a 370z(I hope). 

I saw my chemotherapist on Tuesday. I told him a tattoo was on my bucket list and asked how long I'd have to get a tattoo. He said I'd have to get it the same day (tuesday). It's a bit cliche, and not what I really wanted (I had been planning for awhile) but considering that most tattoo artists require weeks/months in advance appointment, I was lucky to even get it. It's symbolic, the left side is torn to tatters (my cancer is on the left side, and has left me deformed, unable to smile, and a huge white patch of skin from a skin graft). And it's me holding hands with my wife, as there is no way I'd have hope without her. So here's the pic (I'm a photography enthusiast) Sorry for the long and off topic post, but thank you for the words of encouragement.


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## Motown_Dub (Feb 22, 2003)

Much love and support to you and your family. 

While we're all obviously car enthusiasts, what you're dealing with is a reminder of how trivial what wheels, engine type or transmission in a car, truly are.

Hang in there and keep showing cancer who the boss is.


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