# My experience with the 09G Transmission...



## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Ok, here I go… I will try to put everything in order to detail as much as I can on what I’ve been experiencing with the 09G Transmission on my MK5 Jetta 2.5
Problems began like everyone else’s threads, slip-bump from 1st to 2nd, 2nd to 3rd… and sometimes when going down gears.
I began my search over the forum and notice that everyone has talked about the valve body of these transmissions and VW extending the warranty of them. I’ve also found numerous threads of people changing the valve body of these transmissions without any luck on correcting these issues.

Here’s my story so far…
Like 2 months ago, I took the car to a shop to change the transmission fluid and explained a bit my issues to the mechanic. 
He changed the fluid and filter and he said that they were no traces of anything that could lead to an hydraulic problem like the valve body, he also said that he put an additive to the transmission oil and that would make the shifting smoother… WRONG…. After a couple of days of driving the car the bump was very noticeable and was getting worst to the point that one day I thought that someone rear-ended me because of that slip-bump when changing gear from 1st to 2nd.

I called the guy and he told me that probably my car needed a transmission oil cooler… WRONG AGAIN… I never talked to that guy again after that.

I called the dealer and ask him about the transmission oil change and my story with the other shop, he said that these transmissions were extremely delicate and needed the correct fluid to operate. He said that I needed to change the oil again with the correct one (VW OEM) and probably needed to change it again after 2000 or 3000 km…because when you do a transmission oil change, you only change like 5 quarts of oil and almost 1.5 liters never comes out. So I needed to do that to get rid of the maximum amount of additive that the transmission may have. I’ve also knew that the other shop used the Motul ATF oil, not the OEM one.

After the fluid change at the dealer, I couldn’t notice any difference in shifting… the bump was still there and the clank when lowering gears, but after like a week I began to notice a difference. These issues were not as often as before; there was a positive progress in shifting, definitely not like when I started. 
I still have the slipping and bumping but just in 1st and 2nd… not in 3rd anymore. I will probably go and do the second change to get rid of the Motul and additive remaining’s in the transmission and see what happens. 

------Here's where I am TODAY------

Side notes:
I’ve searched about the transmission control module (TCM) and found that some people had problems with the TCM in cars flooded or with sunroof leaks due to the location of the TCM under the passenger seat. My car had sunroof leaks (now repaired) but I will definitely would like to know some more about this to see if my TCM needs to be replaced.
I’ve also found that someone changed the engine thermostat and the transmission problems were gone, but I can’t think of any relation with the thermostat and the transmission shifting. Any ideas?
I live outside the US and therefore can’t claim for the extended warranty. Is for US only.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

*The 09G*

So the 09G is a problematic transmission, as I mentioned in a previous thread. I have rebuilt a few of these units and internally they don't have many issues. Unfortunately, every person you dealt with is either making claims for the sole purpose of getting a sale or they are simply ignorant. I currently am working with a 09G with a 2-3 slide bump, which is intermittent. The previous owner had the dealer replace the VB because of an occassional 1-2 slide bang, which it did fix. One downfall with this unit, whether it is a VW design flaw or an Aisin-Warner design flaw (the firm that actually designed/built the transmission, yes, it is Japenese!) is the adaptive shifting system. The dealer has to force the transmission to re-learn the driving habits of the driver and this can take quite awhile as it is always modifying it's shift procedure to some set parameters. Many times the shifting will be erratic before it gets better. The long story here is 99% of the problems with the 09G is electrical (software) or valve body. 
Addressing your experiences, the first shop you went to seemed to approach the problem correctly as wear and tear can be seen by inspecting the pan. Bushing wear, clutch material delamination, or just plain metal on metal wear can easily be seen here. However, the mechanic lost me when he claimed that there was nothing indicative of a valve body issue. Valve body issues are primarily valve to bore wear concerns where fluid is leaking from one side of a valve spool to another side, which may cause a plethora of issues, some noticeable and some not. The 09G uses linear valves attached to the solenoids, which have issues in terms of cross leaks or binding in the bore, causing the valve to hang up. This may be the main cause of the slide-bangs and slide-bumps but I have not seen any reports of such. In terms of the added additive, it all depends on what that additve was and what it does to the fluid. Some additives have a friction modifier which adds "teeth" to the friction material. Whether it accomplishes this by interacting with the clutch material or increasing the coefficient of friction of the transmission fluid, I do not know. This may make shifts seem to bang more as the clutches are slipping less during apply. Also, an oil cooler issue would not cause any of your mentioned symptoms, but it may have caused damage that then led to your concerns, not likely, however.
The dealer you took it to seems like your usual dealer, spitting out the same old responses and excuses rather than just saying they didn't have an answer. This transmission is not delicate. The transmission fluid is as important in this unit as it is in say, a new Camaro. Just because it is a foreign doesn't make it fragile. The transmission fluid does need to contain the proper additives in which the transmission was designed around. There are many manufacturers of fluid and they may or may not have one that meets the OEM specs for this model. Just check that the fluid in question does meet the specs asked for in the owners manual or bottle from the dealer. If the wrong fluid was installed you will usually notice other concerns such as slipping, softer shifts or harder shifts. What you probably noticed with the change in shift characteristics after the dealer visit is the adaptive shift program. They would have done a re-learn and this often fixes some of the problems related to software. I don't feel that removing the residual transmission fluid and additive from previously is going to fix anything, but it also cannot hurt.
One thing to mention about the VB is that there are companies working to fix these problems. Both Sonnax and VB Express offer upgrade parts or completely rebuilt units. The latter installs all of the Sonnax upgrades and cleans/replaces the solenoids and then tests the VB's on a flow bench to verify that there are no crossleaks or stuck valves. Look them up, but they will definitely still be expensive, but they are much, much better than the new units from VW. To the best of my knowledge, you will need to bring the car to the dealer after the VB install/rebuild to have them initiate the adaptive shift re-learn. Good luck!


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Thank you bjohns86 for your reply!
So, what would you do first? As you pointed out 99% of the time the problems are software or valve body related, can I do a test to any software related component to see if that's my problem?

I have Vag-Com, not an experienced user though.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

So what should you do? Well, unless the symptoms now are significantly different from what they were before you had any transmission work done then I would not worry about the fluid or any other work for that matter. It is water under the bridge and none of the shops are going to make things right with you at their expense, especially the dealer. Now I am making these recommendations off of what you have told me so take them as such. From what you have stated, I would try two things, first I would take the car to the dealer and have them reset the adaptive shift and see how that works for you. If that still doesn't seem to make things better than a valve body is probably required. As stated earlier, VB Xpress (www.valvebodyxpress.com) is an excellent option. I know that you mentioned that you do not live in the US so you may want to check their website on whether they have distributors in your country (Canada?) or call them on Monday and talk to them. You will need to purchase the VB from a distributor and they are still going to run $1-2K USD. You could buy a VB from the dealer but you will be also getting the design flaws included free of charge. I have heard of one instance where it took 2 valve bodies from the dealer before one actually worked right! Crazy! This transmission is a black eye on VW as there best transmissions, as a whole, are ZF-made units. I think many technical folks have been turned off from buying a Beetle (I know, nobody really likes these cars) or Jetta because of the 09G and the inability to buy hard parts (internals) for this unit. Nothing is really available for the 09G (i.e.-drums, pistons, shafts, pumps, etc.); the full rebuild kit is between $500-1200 USD, depending on your vendor. Your only options would be to buy a re-manufactured unit from VW, which I have heard is around $5000 USD, have the part custom made at a machine shop, or buy a core from the junkyard. Omega Machine does make bushing kits for this unit but they are expensive. Also, the torque converter can be rebuilt by several companies, but I prefer Precision of New Hampton Inc. in Iowa. Great work and a rock-solid warranty. So anyway, I too am looking for a way to do an adaptive shift reset without going to the dealer or spending thousands on a scanner so if you find a VAG-COM that can accomplish this for a reasonable amount of money let me know. If you do buy a VB, they are easy to install given that you have a reasonable level of attention to detail and an in-lbs torque wrench, but you will need to bring the car into the dealer afterwards to have the adaptive shift reset. Don't be intimidated, just be thorough. I wish transmissions were like what they were 5-10 years ago, but I guess that is how it goes. They aren't any more complicated mechanically, just harder to diagnose because of proprietary electronics/software. Feel free to ask more questions; I will do what I can. If you want to rebuild the unit, I can help you there too. Not rocket science like some would make you believe!


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Oh, I guess I did not answer your question directly. Unless you have the dealer scanner (and even then I do not know how in-depth they are able to go into the transmission), I do not think that you can do much in terms of troubleshooting components with your standard VAG-COM, but I could be wrong here.


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Thank you very much for your help! I've been reading a lot about these units and would definitely try to reset the adaptive shift.

Last Thursday I read a thread about doing a throttle adaptation; since I was at work I did it like the guy said without VAG-COM and tested it on my way home.
1.Key On (don’t start)
2.Gas Down to the floor for 10 Sec
3.While holding gas turn key off
4.Let go off gas
5.Key on for 5 min, touch nothing (this will do the throttle adaptation according to that guy)
6.Start and Drive

At first the accelerator pedal felt very responsive to the touch... and no slip or bump between 1st or 2nd, then after like 5 – 10 min of driving the slip and bump appeared…. It was like before, very noticeable and annoying. 

That day, there was an accident on the road and the traffic was awful. I reached a complete standstill for about 10 min… weird thing was that after that, the car was smooth again. No bump, no slip….nothing. Probably reached a cooler temperature?
Could it be something related to heat that after driving for a while the problems appear? Is that a symptom of a defective valve body?

By the way, I live in Costa Rica but I can order the parts anywhere in the US… If I do order the valve body, do I need to take down the whole transmission for installation?
Thanks again!


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Thank you for the information on the throttle adaptation. I may try this and see what I notice. This just goes to show that software/VB is a huge factor in shift timing, as well as, shift quality. It would be nice to find a scanner or software package for PC where I could access the TCM of sorts and manipulate or monitor the shift points and when the solenoids are actuated/inactuated. In terms of the traffic incident, it may be because an increase in temperature lowered the viscosity of the fluid to aid in preventing valve stinking (which is a valve body concern), however, I doubt the temp change was significant eneough to really cause a change, but if that were the case I think the valve would stick significantly when cold. To address your question on the VB install, no, the transmission can stay in the car, just drop the pan and be careful with unhooking the wires as the heat stress can cause the harness plugs to be fragile. Label the wires and make note of VB bolt location, as some are different lengths, I believe. I would recommend that you go to the following website and order the rebuild manual which is worth it's weight in gold for this unit. It is $30 USD (http://atsg.com/cart/products/VW_09G_09M_AUDI_TF60SN-453-3.html). Invaluable for anything from transmission identification to VB replacement to extensive rebuild.


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Ok good… I’m going to change some other parts in my car (breaks, suspension…) and I’ll be addressing this issue next year. I’m going to see if I can monitor the shift points or solenoid actuation with my standard VAG-COM Cable… I’ll let you know.
Please subscribe to my thread so you can see when I post new information. I think we’ll probably be gone for some time.


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## Socal87 (Sep 15, 2009)

I'm having issues with the 09G in my 2007 Jetta 2.5. Started out with harsh downshifting to 3rd after coasting...heard about the valve body replacement so I took it in. Dealer replaced the valve body free of charge even though I was out of warranty, and all seemed well for the time being. Then, I started having flares between 3rd and 4th when upshifting, regardless of mode (Drive, Sport, or Tiptronic) UNLESS I applied 50% throttle or more. Seems that it only happens while cold, because the problem goes away after some time on the road, and also generally doesn't recur after moderate to hard acceleration. Took it back in to the dealer, they recommended a new transmission. Sounds like bull**** to me, so I did some research. Turns out the 09G is the Aisin-Warner TF60SN...and Aisin-Warner does NOT provide any support whatsoever. Same transmission is used in the Mini Cooper and Audi A3, but with different TCMs and different ATF cooling solutions. Ours (in the Jetta/Golf) uses a ATF-to-engine coolant exchanger mounted in the transmission; I'm not sure what the Audi implementation is, and I'm fairly certain that the Mini doesn't have a cooler. I don't know about the quality of the transmission, but I did find out one thing: Aisin and VW decided to save money by limiting the powertrain warranty to 60,000 miles...while not recommending a fluid change, EVER. I've talked to a few mechanics, and they admitted that the 09G/TF60SN is what makes them money. One guy told me, at length, that this transmission would benefit from no more than a regular fluid flush and refill, every 30k miles or so. But as aforementioned, the beancounters decided that they'd save money by selling it with a "lifetime" fill, limiting the life of the transmission, but saving maintenance costs for that expected life.

So, long story short, I'm now at 86,000 miles, and trying to find alternatives to having the transmission replaced as a whole. Aisin-Warner, as aforementioned, does not provide any OEM support, and has no rebuild kits or parts available. VW's strategy is complete unit replacement, if swapping the valve body doesn't work. This whole thing stinks, but there's little us as the consumers can do about it...I hope someone finds a viable and definitive solution. I plan on taking my car into an independent shop, where I'm told there is an individual who does his best to work with military such as myself, but due to the military thing I don't get a lot of free time. I'm hoping he can tell me something worthwhile though.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

SoCal 87, first off, thank for your service regardless of branch. I was Army EOD in 2001-on. Anyways, what you are experiencing is very common, as you can tell from my comments here prior. It really doesn't matter which shift sequence is causing the grief. I am having 2-3 slide bumps with my current project and this is intermittent, but does seem more common at low temperatures. Usually this is the sign of valve bind as the metal has contacted from the cold, which is relative to the area you live in. As the parts warm up they expand and binding is less of an issue. Now with cross leaks (an increased between say sealing rings and drum or spool valve and sleeve/bore result in signal pressure to leak through these increased clearances resulting in slippery shifts; leaks around some items (i.e.- lube circuits will not be noticed by the driver, but this could result in burned up planetary gear sets or bushings)), these will be noticed more as the transmission warms up and the viscosity of the oil decreases (thins out), allowing more to leak by a given clearance. So you did the correct thing with the VB replacement and, in fact, the unit I am working on right now had a dealer VB installed about 8 months ago, which did fix the 1-2 clunk, but brought on the 2-3 slide bump. I have heard of instances were it required more than one "new" VB to fix the shift concerns, so don't be too quick to judge that the VB is necessarily good. My current understanding is that many of the concerns are the linear solenoids, which VW/Aisin-Warner has switched, in terms of vendor, several times since the release of this unit and the newest offerings are so far the best, but I have no experience with this being right or wrong. I also believe the software of the TCM has some role in the issues experienced with 09G, but there isn't much that can be done as neither the dealer nor any aftermarket companies can actually change this, they can only flash it and upload a new program that they recieved from so and so. You mentioned the transmission cooler and service intervals for fluid replacement. These issues are not related to the cooling method they use here unless the cooler is coming apart and sending metal into the unit, but this has not been noted anywhere. The service interval that VW recommends is ridiculous, I agree, however, I don't know if the sticking solenoid/valve issue is related to debris or just plain poor engineering/machining tolerances. With that said, it cannot hurt to change your fluid every 30K miles or even sooner, but a fluid flush and filter change will rarely fix any present issues (this is assuming that there isn't a large amount of debris floating around plugging the filter, but if this is the case than you obviously have clutches coming apart or hard part damage and a rebuild is on the horizon.) The down fall with serving this transmission is that it is a pain in the ass to fill, you will have to buy or make the special tool which www.vwtools.com may or may not have. I made mine and I recommend finding a commercial one if possible. See my previous postings on this thread for info on VB Xpress, definitely worth looking into. Lastly, don't fear, there are rebuild kits available, but they are brutally expensive ~$1000, which doesn't include bushings or the torque converter (I mentioned a great company for those above as well). Look into distributors such as Transtar, Axiom Industries, and Dacco-Detroit. A company called Omega Machine does make bushings for this unit but they too are very expensive, but they are rarely needed, except the bushing in the rear of the case which does rotate on occasion (which may cause a slipping 3-4 shift or loss of 4th gear all together). Sorry to be long winded here but if you have any more questions, throw them out there and I will see if I can answer them or at least point you to someone who can.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

My mistake on the previous post, the VB from VBXpress is about $1200 and the rebuild kits through Transtar are $400-600, depending on clutch thickness. I quoted a ZF transmission price for Audi.


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

So even with a Valve Body Job, the transmission may still have slips or flares? Damn :banghead:… Socal87 please post your findings if you end up taking your car to that shop.

You know, that’s really the story here… I couldn’t find any post of anyone fully fixing a 09G transmission… 

Bjohns86: take a look at this fluid change DIY… 
http://www.passatworld.com/forums/9...eed-auto-09g-atf-fluid-change-filter-diy.html

You may find this very useful as well: http://docs.jayzone.eu/erWin/VW/Jet...ransmission/6-speed automatic gearbox 09G.pdf


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Sphak,

Thank you for the postings. They lend some alternative insights into the 09G. This would have been much more appreciated 3 years ago beofre I made a tool, but that is how it goes. The pdf is also nice, however, realize that this transmission doesn't need any special tools, besides the one requred to fill the pan and, of course, a scanner. If you have general transmission rebuilding tools than you will set to go. Also, in regards to the VB replacement, I wouldn't be too worried as the chance of you getting a VB with issues is rather slim. I have built 6, 09G units and haven't had such a problem, but it is possible. Now there are ways to fix these issues, but I have omitted them in the postings here because of the liability of sorts. Since this issue of 09G VB's is such a big topic I may write a post focused solely on my experiences with this VB, such as identification, function, and troublespots and what your options are. Again, I have only rebuilt 6 of these particular units but I have been intrigued with this unit because of how mysterious it is. Aisin-Warner don't really have good luck with VB's and the 09G is no exception, however, AW makes other transmissions that have many, many more VB complaints than the 09G! At the end of the day, in terms of high-quality foreign transmissions, ZF is still king. If you think that such a post specifically focusing on the VB information mentioned above is good idea, let me know. Anyone can respond to this as well. Thanks again for the information in your last post.


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi, I’ve found this other post for troubleshooting the 09G… 
The second problem pointed out in the post I think is related to Socal87 problem and the third one is exactly my problem!

*Third Topic:*
_The automatic transmission has harsh upshifts between 1 to 2 and 2 to 3 when warm. All other shifts are good. There are no transmission trouble codes.

1. Check the transmission fluid and ensure that it is at the proper level. 

2. Connect a full function Volkswagen compatible scan tool and check the transmission control unit for trouble codes. 

3. Disconnect the Transmission Control Module (TCM) and see how the transmission operates. This will place the transmission into limp mode and bypass the electrical components for testing purposes. If the vehicle moves and the transmission does not slip, then there is a control issue and the TCM system will need to be tested. 

4. If the vehicle still does not move and the transmission does not engage, then there is an internal transmission fault. Remove the transmission pan and inspect for foreign material in the pan. If there is metal or particles in the pan, the transmission is worn out and will have to be rebuilt or replaced. 

5. Once transmission function is restored perform a transmission basic setting procedure to relearn throttle kick down points. 

** These transmissions are difficult units to rebuild and it is suggested that the valve body be replaced with a new unit when rebuilding. The valve body is an aluminum structure. The spool valves and solenoids in the valve body are made of harder material and can cause the passages in the valve body to wear abnormally and leak. This internal leakage can cause abnormal shifting. **_
Link: http://newbeetle.org/forums/questio...ansmission-discription-information-topic.html


Do you know where the TCM is located? Can I disconnect it for testing purposes as this post suggests?

About the information on the VB, I just want to know what my options are… at the end of the day I want to know if it makes sense to repair it at a reasonable cost. Otherwise I would be thinking in other options such as selling the car to someone who actually wants to get into that mess or trade the car for a newer one. Don’t really like that because I love my car, but I don’t want to put money into something that is going to be a pain in the a$$ to repair.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Well, that is a fine approach, I guess, but I would find it easier to remove the one or two transmission fuses in the left side of the dash, but if you want to dig for the TCM, it's all good. If you remove the fuses for say 15 minutes and replace them then drive the car you will be doing a forced adaptive relearn without scanner. The posting you mentioned seems erroneous as the shift solenoids control shifting and if you disconnect the TCM there should be no upshifts and if they do occur they will presumably be harsh. Sooner or later you are just going to have to punt and do something. I am skeptical that these shoot from the hip tests will point to anything conclusively. If I were you I would reset the adaptive shift anyway you so choose and drive it for a few days. The shifts may be harsh and erratic and unusual at first but they should get better as the TCM determines shift data from input/output shaft data. I know you just want a cut and dry conclusion to your problem, like most folks on forums, but unfortunately several things can cause your symptoms and it may come down to a gamble.


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Ok, I did the adaptive shift. As you mentioned the shifts were erratic for the first say 1 – 2 days… but finally I think it’s getting back to “normal”. 
The slip – bump is still there so seems that a valve body replacement is needed as you also indicated before.
I’ll let you know what I’m going to do… I need to go to the US to buy the part and fly down to Costa Rica to install it. Probably next year.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Remind me again, which shifts are giving you the biggest issues and what are they. You said a slide-bump 1-2 and 2-3? Sometimes you have downshift issues, are they hard or just noticeable? In "sport" mode does anything go away or does something present itself? Also, how many miles are on this VB and what year/engine is the car? You shouldn't have to come to the US for this VB, did someone tell you this?

Brad


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi Brad.
The biggest issue is when upshifting from 1st to 2nd. When the transmission does the upshift it takes a while to get into 2nd and produces a vibration before going into gear. It’s not always hard, sometimes is barely noticeable but sometimes it’s a huge “Clank”. It’s also more perceptible as the car gets warmer. I think that’s the best description I can give you. 
The upshift from 2nd to 3rd produces something similar but not as hard as the other one.

In Sport or TipTronic mode is the same.

My car is a Jetta 2006 (2.5 engine), miles: 56000

The reason I think I need to go to the US is because the dealer here is crap, and there’re just a few automatic transmission shops with good reputation. If a valve body replacement is needed, then I just thought that probably the best is to order the part from a US reseller (The one you recommended me). If I ship the part directly to Costa Rica, then probably taxes here are going to be insane. Here in Costa Rica the law for importing car parts is really stupid and if a part is large and heavy I’ll have to pay a lot in taxes. If I fly to the US and come with the part, I have a good chance to pay fewer taxes or pay nothing at all.


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi Brad,
Yesterday I got an estimated cost for the valve body. I talked to a guy in transtar1 which is a distributor of valvebodyxpress. He told me that the final cost would be $1100 and the original part must be sent to vendor for repair.

If you remember, I live in Costa Rica so it’s a little difficult for me to take my defective valve body and wait for a repair in the US. I don’t know exactly if that’s how the rebuilt process works, I thought that maybe I could buy the part without having to take mine.

I’ve investigated furtherer and found that ECS Tuning is actually selling that part.
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_V--2.5/Drivetrain/Transmission/Valve_Body/ES288325/

What do you recommend? I honestly don’t know if the ECS valve body is brand new (I would think so) but since you told me that it’s better to have a rebuilt valve body with all the defects repaired than a new one it makes me think twice before buying from them.

I also think that the price is a little high for a rebuilt part ($1100) vs the other one in ECS tuning $927 which would be brand new.

What do you think?


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

There are pros and cons both ways. The rebuilt unit from VBX is a unit in which they installed all of the upgrades that solve the most common complaints with these units. However, the units are used so the bores are wore at some capacity even though they may be within tolerance. I am familiar with the units from ECS, but unsure as to where they came from (dealer or some other VB company). You may want to investigate this path considering where you are located. Find out where they are getting their VB and realize that there are 4 different VB's available for this transmission so isolate which one you have. Also, there are ways in which you can physically adjust shift points on these VB's if you are getting say a 3-4 slide bump which feels like it neutralizes between shifts. On the unit I was speaking about weeks prior, I had to adjust the K2 valve train (3-4 shift) so that the timing was right. See what you find out with the VB folks. Also, before you drop that kind of dough, try to reset the adaptive shift again. If you continue to get the same complaints than you will just have to take the chance and get the VB. Cruel reality.

Brad


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

I know that this post was originally focused around a specific concern from sphak, however judging by the title and number of views it seems folks are looking a lot into this particular transmission. With that said, feel free to ask anything of concern with these units and I, along with others familiar with this transmission, will answer. I may also start a thread specific to this transmission and it's...'personality'.


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## thespacebelow (Mar 14, 2010)

*rebuild+new valve body*

german car depot of hollywood FL fixed mine a couple of years ago.


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## Pengwin (Aug 18, 2008)

I just got to this thread from another and this is gold. This thread needs to be stickied or at least put into an index sticky.


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## uglybaby (Mar 19, 2006)

Anyone experience a hiccup while at about 40mph if you let off the gas and are coasting then reapply the throttle (not hard either) I get the feeling that the trans was going to downshift and then changed its mind and blipped back into same gear (5th or 6th usually). Best way to describe it is if you are in a manual car cruising at 40mph you push in on the clutch and then abruptly let it back out without changing gears or matching revs.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

uglybaby,

Yes, this does happen. I have experienced it at slower speeds as well, like 20-30 mph. I haven't looked into it enough to determine the root cause, but the torque converter clutch on these has been known to cause symptoms like these due to TCC clutch valve wear. At this point there is no easy fix. I should no more in the coming weeks as such a case is supposedly coming in. 

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

Well Ill let you all know how great my 2007 jetta 2.5 is also. Ive been looking into getting a rebuilt vb too due to my car giving the slip bang and all that jazz through most of my gears. Well since a rebuilt vb is around the 1000 dollar mark i havent had the spare money to go out and just buy a rebuilt one. But as it goes my car is at 140000 miles no transmission oil change as i know of bought the car used and i dont think they did maintenance to it. It only seems to do it after it warms up to the 190 mark but it shifts hard on the 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd. It slips on 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd and 3rd to 4th and sometimes 4th to 5th. The slips don't always happen just every other time i gas it. Like when the car slips the tach is pinging at 6000 rpms and WHAM it shifts YAY! jerking the whole car forward squealing the tires. It downshifts hard on 3rd and down. Of course its my daily driver and the only dealer is around 3 hours away. So of course emailing VW seems to be no avail cause all they want me to do is take the car to a dealer which as you can tell the car hardly makes it around town let alone on a highways since it slips on the passing gears. But my research has concluded that a vb swap is eminent or a whole transmission. I thought about swapping the fluid since it only does it when warm but i dont really want to waste the money just to drain it out when the vb needs to be changed. Unless anyone else knows of what can be done to fix this I am all ears. And just for your viewing pleasure the VW email yay! 

PS forgot to mention yesterday all the gears were highlighted while driving. so instead of just D highlighted had P R N D S all highlighted went away after i restarted the car but YAY 



Thank you for your e-mail in regard to the concerns you have experienced with the transmission of your Jetta. I apologize for the inconvenience you have encountered. I understand you are seeking to know if VW can provide you with the instructions for performing the repair associated with the Valve Body Warranty Extension, and I appreciate the opportunity to respond. 

I’m sorry; although your seems to be exhibiting symptoms associated with the concern, I am unable to send you further documentation or parts for its repair. Only an authorized Volkswagen dealership could perform the repair under warranty; however, now that your vehicle is outside of warranty, that service cannot be provided free of charge. The Technical Bulletin associated with this repair is a dealer resource and I do not have it to provide to customers. You may be able to find what you are seeking here: https://www.vw.techliterature.com/consumer/. 

The warranty extension for your vehicle has expired by mileage, and Volkswagen would be unable to assist with its repair. The parameters for the warranty extension were put in place to provide a reasonable judgment of when these concerns may occur, and were done for the convenience of our customers. 

Please know it is my goal to assist our customers whenever possible, and I am sorry I could not provide you with the answer you were seeking. Although I realize you have expressed you are not financially able to have your vehicle repaired at the dealer, it is Volkswagen’s recommendation to have any repair or maintenance done at an authorized VW service center. 

If I may be of future assistance, please know our Customer CARE Center is at your disposal Monday through Friday 8 AM to 6 PM, local time, at (800) 822-8987. You are also always welcome to e-mail us again from the “Contact Us” page on www.vw.com. 

In addition, you will soon be receiving a Volkswagen Customer Care satisfaction survey. Please take a few moments to complete this. Your feedback is important for it will allow us to serve you more effectively in the future. 

Sincerely, 

John B. 

Customer CARE Advocate 

P.S. Our records indicate the U1 – Underhood fuel supply line, P1 – Ignition coil, and T3 – Airbag wiring harness campaigns have not yet been completed on your vehicle. Please contact your dealer and schedule an appointment to have these campaigns completed at your earliest convenience. The work will be performed on your vehicle free of charge.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

You describe the notorious 09G complaints, but I haven't seen so many of the symptoms in one car. I almost want to take your tranny and tear it down just to see how you got so lucky! Anyway, don't fret too much about changing your fluid at this point as it will not likely change anything. That is not to say it shouldn't be changed just that you should wait until you install the VB. I have found a vendor (Ream Man valve bodies) who sells the 09G VB for $550 with the necessary Sonnax updates. I have never personally dealt with them but have recommended that another poster here give them a whirl and he/she was very happy with their product. I have always used valve bodies from Valve Body Xpress, but they are significantly more expensive and use the same Sonnax updates. Before you get to this point, I would first scan the car and get any codes, which you will likely have since you mentioned the gear range showing all gears illuminated. Write these down or do an auto-scan if you have VCDS and then clear them and possibly reset the adaptive shifts and see if anything changes. Also, verify that the fluid is at the right level because you mention a lot of slipping which is more often than not due to low fluid. If the trans has been slipping for a long time the clutches may be in need of a rebuild, but if the shifts are just firm than you are probably okay at this point, but I would rebuild the unit regardless, but that is what I do, rebuild transmissions. Let me know what you think and we can go from there. Good luck.

Brad


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

What about just changing out the solenoids? They are available rebuilt with updates to address sticking issues. Also there are solenoids coming available through a collaberation between sonnax and rostra.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Unfortunately, the hard upshifts and downshifts are often times attributed to worn bores on the solenoid modulator valves, causing unregulated or poorly regulated line pressure to supply the linear solenoids causing the well known bang on downshifts. however, the solenoids are notorious for worn plunger bushings which cause them to stick. Knowing the prevalence of bore wear on these units, I would take out the risk and replace the VB. 

Brad


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

I think your making a big assumption Brad. 

I see it like this.... 

Solenoids come with valve body.... A guy could make prearrangments with valve body supplier, try solenoids, see what happens and if it doesn't fix it then send off the valve body. Only out the labor, but potentially could save $$$. Plus the knowledge gained is worth $$$$$$. 

maybe if there were some oil schematics available, and a guy could more easily understand the hydraulic functions of the valve body then this could be known.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

I agree with you. However the solenoid design on these units are unlike anything VW has ever used, as the solenoids contain a spool valve instead of the usual ball and seat or pintle design so problematic with the 096/01M and the 09A (Jatco JF506E). That is not to say that they don't have problems as these do show bore wear as well as solenoid armature problems. When this happens the 2-3 and/or 3-2 shift will show harsh downshifts or flared upshifts when hot, but shift fine when cold. With that said, it can't hurt to try your approach. Though noting the extent of the shift concerns that Tupa123 is experiencing, it will be hard to convince me that several or all of the shift solenoids are failing simultaneously. What is more likely is some fluid signal/s causing some or all of these concerns. More realistically, it is probably a mix of valve bore wear and solenoid sticking. Where did you find the info on the Sonnax/Rostra collaboration?

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

Well all I have is a obd2 scanner which pulls no codes on the car. It slips pretty bad when it hits second or 3rd gear the rpms rev up to like 5k and then slams it into gear and the tires start squealing. Drove it today for a extended amount of time ended up getting the whole gear selection illuminated up again the car was shifting like ****. On the highway traveling 45mph it was slipping and had rpms hitting like 5k when shifting. Is there any way to check the fluid level? Other then dumping it and refilling it? Was looking on here how to refill the transmission before I dont remember it ever saying how you can check the transmissions fluid level. Well it just seemed to start as a small bang into gears now its escalated into the slipping and banging into gears. I was wondering if it was just the vb. But it sounds like it has gone beyond just a vb going bad and its gonna have internal problems even if I get the vb replaced.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Unfortunately, taking into consideration the frequency of gear slip, it is likely you have internal damage. The clutches are likely burned and you did mention that the fluid smeled nasty, burnt, so yeah. At this point if you just swapped in a new VB you would likely notice a difference in shift performance, however, you also would probably notice remaining shift problems because of the burnt clutches. To check the fluid, have the car running in park and as level as possible and the trans fluid at about 100 F and then remove the plug on the transmission pan. If fluid slowly drips/dribbles out of the hole with the plug removed the fluid is about where you want it. If there is nothing coming, add fluid until it does and if you overfill it, let it drain out naturally until a dribble results (the same goes for if you pull the plug initially and it runs out quickly, just let it go until it dribbles or is a slight stream), then snug up the plug and you should be good. There is a vertical tube in hole where the plug is, this is how the level is regulated per se so don't think that pulling the plug will drain the entire transmission (this is assuming someone didn't service it previously and forget to re-install this tube after draining the pan). Good luck!

Brad


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## MRyno (Feb 7, 2012)

*Amazing thread!*

First off, this thread is by far the best on the 09G issues I have ever seen. Thank you to everyone who has contributed thus far. An extra special thank you to Brad for sharing the wealth of knowledge!

I am in a similar boat as has been described. Hard shifting on most shifts between all gears after heating up. Also noticing some lag in engaging between shifts on occasion where the engine revs and then goes in to gear. Had tranny serviced by a local shop that specializes in VW. No codes coming up. No shop can provide a difinitive answer (understandably) as to whether it is VB or transmission. The shop that did the service before did not see signs of abnormally high wear/tear and no shavings in the pan or filter.

I, too, will try to reset the adaptive learning and see if that helps. If not, does anyone have a recommendation as far as next steps to get the problem fixed as cheaply as possible? It seems like the VB is the next step in the process after resetting the adaptive learn. (correct me if I'm wrong/you have another opinion as "wrong" doesn't really apply when you don't know all the specifics, etc.) Next step after that new/rebuilt tranny?

Also, Brad or anyone else with experience, I am a pretty avid DIYer. How "easy" would replacing the valve body actually be? I have done things like alternator, starter, brakes, belts, wiring before in other cars and haven't really had any issues but without any kind of write ups, it is a little intimidating. Could you describe the process? Is it as simple as drop the pan/filter and it is right there...unscrew and disconnect some harnesses and reverse the process to install the new one? That is what I am envisioning, but it seems too good to be true. I am considering buying the manual mentioned from ATSG (I think) but I wasn't sure if I should even attempt it (leave it to the pros) or if it was easy enough to not need the manual. I'm definitely understanding of leaving it to the pros and recognize the need to do that when something is beyond my skills and/or understanding.

Thanks in advance to anyone with insight. I will post back tonight after resetting the adaptive learn.

Edit (Model Info):
2005 (2005.5) MKV Jetta 2.5 w/ 6 spd auto having rough, slipping shift problems. Now @ 110,000 mi. 

First experienced around 90,000 mi. Took to dealer and was told it was "normal" for it to shift hard. Found out about the extended warranty after I hit 100,000 mi and VW would not perform VB replacement because it was not diagnosed when I took it in at 90,000 mi...sucky.


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## MRyno (Feb 7, 2012)

*Going to try again...*

I tried resetting the TCM with the procedure mentioned above. I didn't notice much but that doesn't mean that it didn't work. I will try doing it again when I have some time tomorrow night and see if it gets me anywhere. I did take note of the specifics of the shift problems which worsened as it came to operating temp. Shifting was basically rough and slipping when shifting up and down between the following gears: 23, 34, 45 and also NeutralDrive ( means to and from). Basically rough all around unfortunately. Also, after driving it and getting it up to temperature, driving it both normally and a bit harder...probably 70% of it was harder driving, I could smell burnt clutch. I haven't been driving it very much, so I am not sure if it is because it has been sitting or if it is possibly low transmission fluid or if it is just something that happens with the valve body problem.

Any insight into the stuff above or advice on how easy replacing the VB is much appreciated. I found a DIY but it was for a 2005 VW Phaeton which may or may not have the same VB as the Jetta, but it seems doubtful. I will post that link and another that I found useful while searching today.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

MRyno,

As I have said many times before, I highly dislike the dealer service team. They have little experince doing actual diagnostics and have no real knowledge on the 09G, except maybe how to swap a VB. Anyway, they knew your VB needed to be replaced but for whatever reason chose not to. This hurts the customer as well as skews the statistics of VB replacements for these units, thereby misleading VW Corporate. So, in my opinion, you have two options here. It has been pretty well established that these VB's are problematic. Not only do the solenoids tend to stick when hot (which matches your complaint), but they show significant bore wear throughout the VB housing (I am actually looking into building a complete, strengthened VB, but I am likely biting off more than I can chew, but experimentation is what leads to discovery, right?!). VWCoolAir is correct in that you could swap out solenoids and see how it works, but unfortunately the prevalence of worn bores in the VB, especially the solenoid modulator valves, will leave some downshift issues if they are present. So in my opinion, I would buy a rebuilt VB. You can get "new" VB's from the dealer, but they have little, if any, updates, though I have heard that the quality of the solenoids have improved from those that came in our cars originally. Anyway, purchasing from either Ream Man (www.reamman.com) or Valve Body Xpress (VBX) (www.valvebodyxpress.com) will give you a good, warranteed product with the appropriate Sonnax updates (www.sonnax.com) for the 09G. I haven't personally dealt with Ream Man, only VBX, but a fellow on this forum tried the former and has been very happy thus far. 
The second option is to rebuild the transmission. These units are quite robust internally, though continual slipping will obvious destroy the clutches, but I have seen units with VB issues complete with flare shifts and firm downshifts not having any internal damage with clutches, drums, bushings, pump, etc. The firm downshifts don't usually hurt this unit because they occur during coasting to a stop which is low stress (unless it is doing engine braking like in "S" mode, which will be a little harder on the guts). Speaking of which, have you driven it in "S" to see which symptoms have gone away or maybe new ones presented themselves during this time? In "S", the TCM kicks up the line pressure sugnificantly and changes the shift pattern and it is this pressure increase that can rid you of some of the problems on upshift and maybe on downshift as the torque converter clutch (TCC) is engaged almost all of the time and 6th gear isn't allowed to engage, or least not anywhere from 80 mph on down. You can opt to rebuild this yourself if you have the time and patience, which I recommend, as they are rather simple to rebuild and don't require any special tools, except maybe a spring compressor (easy to make if necessary), snap ring pliers, patience, and meticulous observation. You also save a crap load rebuilding these yourself. VW wants what, I think about $5000 for a complete unit. Assuming you replace the VB (Ream Man), buy a master kit, and rebuilt torque converter from say Precision of New Hampton (www.gopnh.com), you are looking at $1200ish plus odds and ends. If there is hard part damage (i.e.-pump wear, cracked drums, bad balance pistons, etc.) this price will increase but I have seen little hard part damage on these. There are a few things I would address internally if you do rebuild it yourself but we can discuss this later. 
Finally, run the adaptive reset (I am unsure what method you used though) and drive it a while as it isn't uncommon to initially shift worse before it gets better as the TCM is trying to get it's bearings and fine tune using baby steps until it finds it's "sweet spot". Unfortunately, the software has it's limits and isn't a miracle worker so it may be unable to fine tune it to the point that you or I would accept it. If this doesn't seem to solve the problem or at least a good portion of them then I would look into a VB or rebuild w/ VB.
Oh yeah, I didn't even answer your main question. Yes, the VB is easy to remove and replace. There is no fuss like on the 09A with manual valve linkage troubles or having to deal with the VB mounted vertically. You could also buy the ATSG manual for the 09G. There are two manuals offered, one is a tech guide and one is a Techtran manual (ideal for rebuilding). The Tech Guide is more for those seeking hydraulic circuit diagrams and other diagnostic information. It is expensive but it is amazingly in-depth and thorough, as is the Techtran manual. If you plan on rebuilding this or just want to know the basics and some, get the Techtran manual. Only buy the Tech Guide if you want an in-depth look at diagnosing these units as it is $60. If you need anything else let me know. Sorry for being long winded! Good Luck.

Brad


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

I would differ in opinion that these are "easy to rebuild".  

I see thread after thread on here and other forums where folks attempt to rebuild 01m which is much simpler, and have a "major fail"










I would never suggest a "do it yourselfer" attempt a rebuild on a 01m which is exponentially simpler, so therefore I would definatly not suggest a "do it yourselfer" attempt rebuild on 09G.

I would also argue that there are specialty tools needed, like digital calipers, bushing drivers, and H-gauge's to check and adjust clearance, and probably a few others I'm not remembering.

Now I would suggest that if you feel like you have a valve body issue, most do it yourself guys can handle this, so give it a try. My advice on 09G is to use a good torque wrench, not a crappy china frieght one, and take a few close up pics of the wiring, so you can plug in the solenoids the right way. Also pay attention to the little bracket so you can get it back in the right spot.


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## MRyno (Feb 7, 2012)

*Next steps*

Thanks a ton Brad and CoolAirVw! I am not sure what exactly is involved in rebuilding and while I am particularly attentive to detail, I think I would leave any internal rebuilding to the pros if only because this is my first experience with transmissions. After reading that someone else had successfully rebuilt his using that manual, I believe I could, but don't know if I could handle the pressure. 

So, to reset the TCM, I used this method (mentioned earlier in the thread):
1. Key On (don’t start)
2. Gas Down to the floor for 10 Sec
3. While holding gas turn key off
4. Take foot off gas
5. Key on for 5 min, touch nothing (this will do the throttle adaptation according to that guy)
6. Start and Drive


As far as next steps are concerned, I am going to try resetting the adaptive learning again and try to actually drive it for a while under normal conditions. I will also try to use "S" (Sport?) mode to see if driving that way helps to make it drive better. When I tried this in the past, I had about the same or slightly worse symptoms, but it is worth a try. My dad has the same car and had the same issues around 80,000 and he noticed that it helped with his car. He ended up just driving the car as it was and now that he is almost to 200,000 mi, he says the problem is barely even there any more...funny that it has lasted so long.

So, assuming that the reset and the "S" mode don't do much to improve the driving, it is looking like replacing the VB is something that I can do fairly easily. The only question I have about that is when replacing the VB, is there anything else I _need_ to replace with it? Can I assume my internals are all ok and replace just the VB? After replacing, is there anything I should do other than running through the adaptive reset mentioned above? The way I imagine this going is drop the pan, take tons of pics of the VB as it is, pay close attention to bracket, remove old, put in new, close up tranny (and do whatever else is associated with that), reset adaptive learn, drive around happily in my smooth-shifting Jetta. Is that about it? Seems super easy! 

I'll post a couple links I promised earlier as well.


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## MRyno (Feb 7, 2012)

*Links for more info*

Not a lot of extra info, but may be related. I'll add more as I find relevant info. I think the Phaeton uses a different tranny (not sure) but the general process is probably pretty similar (correct me if I'm wrong).

*Edit: Removed Phaeton Link*

09G Fluid And Filter Change:
http://www.passatworld.com/forums/9...eed-auto-09g-atf-fluid-change-filter-diy.html

Also, possible VB resource...not sure of how legit they are:
http://www.sunbeltvalvebodies.com/sbvb/default.aspx


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

CoolAirVW has a point about a do-it-yourselfer trying this unit out without direct guidance. I have more confidence in others than him, however, I haven't interacted with many folks who HAVE made the attempt to rebuild their own VW transmission, but I have worked and seen many, many people (actual "mechanics" and do-it-yourselfers) who shouldn't be allowed to even hold a wrench. It's actually scary to see some of the mechanics out there work! I have been rebuilding transmissions for so long that I think I take things for granted and forget how intimidated I was when did my first transmission and that was a 1978, Turbo 350 3-speed. Obviously, the transmission technology has advanced by leaps and bounds, but the process is the same, just new pieces to a familiar puzzle. Also, some tools not often found in a common garage are required. Again, my view of a "special tool" is much different from others. The absolute tools required are feeler gauges (angled), a GOOD torque wrench (Snap-On, Mac, or Matco click-style; don't use a beam or even a digital torque wrench, the former is unreliable and the latter I don't personally trust), a pick set, transmission assembly grease (though Vaseline will work in a pinch), snap ring pliers (has the flatter tips for pointed/flat external retaining rings, Snap-On makes amazing snap ring pliers for these), a snap ring tool (basically a long screwdriver angled at the end), roll pin punch (pin punches with a ball tip at the end to center it in the roll pin, a tapered centering punch will mushroom over the head making your life suck), an H-gage would be nice, but not necessary as there are ways around it for those measurements, though with this transmission if you need to change the selective washers (you can buy other thicknesses to maintain the necessary clearance in that area) than you will have some concern they aren't easily found, though this may have changed as of late. I could go on further but will wait and see if you even decide to rebuild it yourself. I personally think that a good number of people can get away with building this unit as long as they are meticulous and patient, though I know CoolAirVW disagrees! Regardless of what you do, but the ATSG Techtran manual (http://atsg.com/cart/products/VW_09G_09M_AUDI_TF60SN_DL-454-1.html). The link is for the downloadable version, but I am sure there is a printed version floating around on there as that is what I have. If you get the manual and follow it, you will have little problems. The wiring and making sure that the right connector is on the right solenoid is imperative here, as with all transmissions.
Also, in regards to your links, the Phaeton link is irrelevant here (not really related at all, in fact), as is the Sunbelt link (never trust a company with a busty woman holding up their product, unless...well you know!). The VB link also only shows the one 09G VB, but there are two; one pre-June 2004 and one post-June 2004. Either way, don't pursue this avenue. Get the manual and you will be fine. Oh, and the Passat link is fine to use. 
Lastly, I don't like that Adaptive reste process you used. I don't think it actually works, nor can I find literature which uses it as a method. You can either pull the two transmission fuses and wait 10-15 minutes and re-install them and then drive it through the adaptive process or get the VCDS software and do it this way. Good luck!

Brad


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## MRyno (Feb 7, 2012)

*Last questions and I think I am good to make a decision...*

1. Is a rebuild necessary when replacing the valve body at least generally or in a best-case scenario?
2. What are the chances that the VB isn't actually the problem (considering the common symptoms not just mine alone in order to help others experiencing the same issues)?

I don't think I would do the rebuild if I need to do it. I just don't trust myself enough with such a critical component yet.  If a rebuild isn't necessary and I can just replace the VB, I'll do that and document everything appropriately in another thread and post a link. If a rebuild is necessary, I may just cut my losses and take the car to the auction. Thanks for all the help. I think we can say we have covered this topic pretty well!


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Well, that is a hard question to answer because it all going to depend on what you find in the pan. Does the fluid smell nasty and burnt? Is there solid in the pan (silver flecks or dark granules like fine coffee grounds)? If so, then a rebuild is needed. If the fluid smells great and and nothing is in the pan then you might be able to get away with it. It also depends on how bad the symptoms are in terms of severity and frequency so it is hard to say. 
With that said, I am very confident that the VB/solenoids are to blame for what you are experiencing. However, the indirect damage caused by this along with the time frame from when it first started to today is a big factor in what, if any, problems will remain after the VB swap. Like a lot of things in life, it is a gamble of sorts.

Brad


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## MRyno (Feb 7, 2012)

*Off we go!*

Thanks again for the sound advice Brad! I was thinking the same thing based on my automotive instinct, but it's good to hear it from someone who is more of an authority on the topic and can actually base opinions on expertise rather than gut feeling. Even if this gets rid of most of the issues (or even just some), I would be more than excited.

Assuming that I go through with everything, I will definitely follow up with a DIY. Any trans shop I have talked to has wanted at least $2000 for the VB swap and up to $4-5k for a new (rebuilt) tranny! Doing this yourself is definitely the way to go and I think doing this myself will be super easy now that I know what is involved. Thanks everyone for the help and opinions! I hope that it was helpful to the OP and others following the thread as well. Sorry to hijack the thread. 

I'll update in a week or two if I end up doing things myself. Now to find someone with a lift I can use...


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

One more thing; I wouldn't bring it to a shop for the VB swap unless that is truly your intention, as the price you quoted is astronomical considering the ease of the job. Even if they did buy the expensive VB from Valve Body Xpress, you should be looking at $1400 at the absolute max. A rebuild for a regular shop should be maybe $3500. They're an easy transmission to remove and for an experienced builder they are quite quick to rebuild, (labor quoted out as ~13 hours to remove unit, rebuild, and re-install, and even this seems excessive) so the labor should be manageable. Shop around before you throw down that kind of coin. Good Luck!

Brad


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## Gkurti01 (Feb 15, 2012)

*Engine Check Light on as well?*

Hey Guys - newbie here. I just recently got a 2009 Jetta 2.5 with 41k miles. After driving for about 180 miles I'm experiencing the hard shifts 1->2->3 I would describe it as when you take too long to shift with manual and let the clutch out fast. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone with a 2009 has had these issues and if there's been a resolution. Also, at the time did you get a check engine (malfunction indicator lamp)? It seems from the record that this first happened at 32k miles so we'll see what the service dept says. I get the check engine light and the PRND Turns Red.
Thanks for all the great info above !
Gk


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Of course, check for codes, record them and clear them. Next reset the adaptive shift program or have the dealer do this for you. You may not notice an immediate fix but the shifts should show improvement and clean up over time.

Brad


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## MRyno (Feb 7, 2012)

*Success!!*

Valve body swap was a success! Should be possible for anyone who has done any kind of DIY with their car and is careful and willing to spend the time following directions. I'll be writing a valve body DIY this week some time and I will post the link.

The car is driving smooth cold and at operating temperature driving hard or normal. I would say it is a great success and cost me around $650 including valve body, fluid, filter and misc. parts needed. Big thank you to everyone for the info especially to Brad. Thanks guys!


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

That's a great thing to hear!
I've been in another project (1970 Volkswagen Beetle) that has been taking my time and money  but I will definitely be addressing this issue in my Jetta any time soon.
Just to know.
Where did you buy or who fixed your Valve Body? 
I will try to post a DIY as well once done.

Congratulations again, I’ve been waiting for a positive reply about this for a long time!


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

hi again recently found some stuff off alldata about my car which may or may not help anybody else but i couldnt find any of this information anywhere else on this forum. i saw Gkurti01 had posted something about it. but dont take my word on any of this i just happen to find it on alldata for my 2007 2.5 jetta 

Condition
Transmission, "PRNDS" Indicator Illuminated in Instrument Cluster
Technical Background
Automatic transmissions may switch to emergency mode when DTCs are present.
DTCs are displayed correctly on VAS 5051/5052 Scan Tool:
DTC Description 

00293 Multi-function switch - F125
00258 Solenoid valve 1 - N88
00260 Solenoid valve 2 - N89
00262 Solenoid valve 3 - N90
00264 Solenoid valve 4 - N91
00266 Solenoid valve 5 - N92
00268 Solenoid valve 6 - N93
00348 Solenoid valve 9 - N282
00349 Solenoid valve 10 - N283

Illumination of "PRNDS" Indicator may be caused by:
1. Multi-function switch implausible signal or solenoid valve (N88, N89, N90, N91, N92, N93, N282, N283) open/short to b+, open/short to ground or electrical fault in circuit.
2. DTC 00293 caused by damaged wiring between TCM and T10 connector to multi-function switch.
3. Remaining DTCs may be caused by damaged wiring between TCM and T14 connectors.
Production Solution
No production change required.
Service
1. Connect VAS 5051/5052 Scan Tool to view fault memory and run through Guided Fault Finding (GFF) test plan.
2. Read fault memory and run through (GFF) test plan.
3. Check affected solenoid resistance at connector plug T14 or T10 on transmission housing and at wiring harness connection to Transmission Control Module (TCM). Target values are in GFF test plan.
(Refer to pin assignment in GFF test plan)
Tip:
Check pins according to DTCs that are stored in the Scan Tool.
4. If resistance on solenoid is within specification:
- Using appropriate wire from VAS 1978 Repair kit, run an overlay wire from plug T14 or T10 to TCM.
5. Perform vehicle test drive.
If fault does NOT return:
- Repair wiring harness with wiring harness repair kit VAS 1978.
If fault returns or resistance on transmission housing connector is not within specification:
- Contact technical assistance by selecting "Technical Assistance" tab in ElsaWeb and follow instructions to obtain a 6 digit pin.

Warranty
Information only.
Required Parts and Tools
No Special Parts required.
Tool Description Tool No: 
Wiring Harness Repair KitVAS 1978*
* Call Volkswagen Tools and Equipment Program (EQS), which is Equipment Solutions for product.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Tupa123,

Thank you for this post. I have seen it a few times in the past and never really thought to post it here. If anyone is experiencing this problem and cannot find a pin-out diagram for the 09G, send me an IM and I will email a PDF to you. I have yet to find out how to post a file on this damn forum and the "moderator" is non-existant so no luck there. Let me know.

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

hey MRyno, i was wondering where you got your vb from and where you got the oil from. i see reamman is 550 cant figure out how much vbxpress is unless i call. havent really found a cheap oil with gasket and plugs kit for under 140 with shipping. Im about to start tearing into it in a few days found a bit of a let down. apparently the transmission has a serious dent in the pan hopefully i can just bang it out a 180 dollar pan isnt in the budget. my plans are to take the pan off and see if theres any shimmering flakes in it and ill go from there before i order anything. oh and another question do you have to send them back the core of the vb?


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi Tupa123. 
I'm exactly at the same point as you are.
Was looking into this...

http://revmaxconverters.com/about/shop/09g0509/

Seems like a good deal since they're updating everything with the sonnax kit.

If you get a quote from valvebodyexpress please post it here, I'm also interested.

Ohh and by the way, seems that you have to send them your core.

I've also found this other site...
http://800700tran.com/prod.itml/icOid/518
This one sells the entire VB and does not require you to send them your core, It's a lot more. $1200 with the upgrade kit.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

VB Xpress is about $1200 for a complete unit, regardless of which VB version you have. I have worked a lot with VB Xpress in the past and have had nothing but great results, but yes, you do pay a premium but they have been at it the longest. Also, don't waste your money on VW fluid. But Dexron VI (any brand, I use Valvoline as I have easy access to it) and add a whole bottle of Lubegard Platinum ($18, Napa and CarQuest) and you will be good to go.

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

well of course after i order everything before i look on here haha. took out the vb and got a good douching of oil at every turn and took way too many bolts out. i got a reman for 550 since i could not afford the vbxpress ones, it shipped at like 5 am this morning. although looking back at it some have a warranty of 5 years vs the 1 for reaman but i just dont have that much coin for it. plus got oil too from ecs with the filter and everything. never got the fill tool im hoping i can make something so i dont have to waste the money but thats after i get the damned thing back in correctly i hope. although today of course went to college found how the way to correctly take out a vb. im gonna try and post it on here. there might be a picture missing. i was in class copying it off the internet one image at a time. so hope it helps someone out there. its got some good info i could have used removing it. and plus got most of the dent out of the pan with a 2 x 4. the pan has some flakes in it. not huge but some shiny stuff. cut open the filter it had more like "brass" colored flakes id say. didnt see the brass in the pan just the filter. since i aint no expert and dont have the thousands to buy a new transmission this will have to work for the time being. it cant get any worse then it is now i suppose. and since it only does it after it warms up it seems like the transmission still functions ok.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

If worse come to worse, I can make you a tool. They are about $20-30 new, but I don't know what your budget allows and they were on backorder last month. Let me know.

Just checked the VW tool website and they are available for $20.38

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

got my valve body today from ream man today. if anyone decides to go with ream man be aware they require you to send the core valve body back within 10 days from purchase date or they charge you for the core. so anyways installed it. took me a grueling 3 hours. the wires gave me the most trouble cuz getting them into the right holes where i was too absent minded to write down their exact locations where they came in around the valve body. but none the less got it done. was wondering if anyone knew off the top of their heads the torque for the vb bolts that kinda just went over my head till i was tightening them and wondered what the torque specs of them were. im still waiting on my oil and gasket and filter so i think its another couple days till i get that. and plus i ordered the filler tube thingy so i dont have to make one anymore. oh and forgot the ask if i was getting the PRNDS cluster illuminated while driving / the emergency mode. replacing the vb would also fix that too correct? i got it only when i drove the car around town 30 plus minutes. stop and go traffic never on the highway.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Tupa123,

You may still have the PRNDL switch illumination issue after replace the VB because the TCM still thinks there is a problem. It doesn't know what you did, so you will have to clear all codes on the entire system and then reset the adaptive program on the engine/trans. I have several complete manuals for the 09G so let me know what info you need and I will email you any PDF's you may need. Make sure all of the connectors are correct or you WILL have shift problems, though they will not destroy your transmission. I can also get you the process for resetting the system using VCDS. Send me an email if you need anything. Also, most all VB companies want their core immediately or they will keep your core charge, this is not a Ream Man policy. Good Luck!

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

VB SWAP DONE! HOORAY! It seems to have fixed the problem no more hard face slamming shifting so far. I havent drove it too far as of yet but after it warmed up it still didnt seem to shift like it did before. Although I think that pulling out the trans fuses may or may not do anything for reseting the shifting. I can still feel a slight delay between 1st and second but it is a very slight delay like 1 second or so. My only last question is after you get the transmission to the temp and drain the fluid how much total should be left in it? I put in about 6 liters. When heated up and drained the excess i lost about 1.5 liters. so a total of about 4.5 liters left in it. It seemed about the same as i had drained out. just wanted to make sure i did it as right as possible. thanks for everyones help on this coudnt have done this without yall woowoooooo


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Two things here...you can adjust the 1-2 shift timing on the 09G VB if it continues to be irritating. If you continue to get what seems like a dead spot between the 1-2 shift where it feels like 1st disengaes for a second before 2nd applys than I would recommend adjusting the VB. For the fluid, as long as you shifted it through the ranges, are checking the fluid with the ENGINE ON and in "P", with the car basically level and at temp (95-110F), whatever amount drips out is what it is. I usually see anywhere from 3-4 qts needing to be added whenever the pan is dropped. You may lose a half a quart at best when you drop the VB. 

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

ahhh well i had warmed up the car and ran it thru the gears but i didnt check it with it "running" in park. ill have to add some and check it again i suppose. grrr i knew you check transmissions with it running but never did a under the car fill thats what threw me off.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

That's okay. With the engine not running, the fluid isn't circulating so the level will be higher. At this point I would just add what you think you removed plus some and then just start it and run it to temp then let it drain until it just starts to drip. Then you should be set.

Brad


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## tupa123 (Dec 11, 2011)

yeah i just added some back in and rechecked it with it running got it done seems to be working fine nothing like it was before


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Looking for anyone who has or knows of where I can get junk/burned up 09G/09K transmissions or valve bodies. 

Brad


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi Brad, 

I'll be replacing my valve body on monday next week!!, so I'll have my old valve body which is junk to me. 
Since I'm in Costa Rica I don't know how much it will cost me to send you my old valve body but let me check... if that's not too expensive, and if you want it you can have it for free. 

Can you send me a private message with a shipping address to check how much the shipping will be?


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

*Finally Fixed!*

First of all I would like to thank everyone who has posted or replied to this thread, especially to Brad. Who has been of great help in this process!

Valve body was changed and everything is smooth again. I don’t know if it’s me but I also feel the car faster.

Basically I followed the manual posted by tupa123 (like 11 posts above this one). Everything was very straight forward. Then I test it out and everything went great! Now is running like new!
Here’re a couple of pics. (The manual is very detailed so no need for a DIY)


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## schigara (May 21, 2012)

Hi Brad, 

I just bought a 2003 VW Beetle Vert 130k miles with the 09G trans that has the usual problems. When cold, it goes into drive hard and shifts hard and when it gets warm, it stops shifting. 

I pulled the engine and trans cause I am going to replace the front and rear seals on the engine as well as the timing belt, water pump, tensioner and cam seal.

I have removed the valve body and checked the resistance of the solenoids. The 6 large solenoids all tested good at 5.4 ohm and number 1 solenoid (N88) was good at 12.8 ohm but number 2 (N89) tested bad at between 110-55 ohm. There was a normal amount of fine powder on the magnets in the pan with zero flakes or large particles. All the frictions, I can see, look very good and thick and the fluid was black but still smelled good.

Is it possible the N89 solenoid being inoperable could cause these issues?


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## camjr (Nov 20, 2005)

New valve body installed in my 06 Jetta today. It started to fail at 99,600 miles (just under the extended warranty). Took it in on Wednesday of last week at 99,760 or so. Part was ordered and installed today at 99,947 miles.

Whew... that was close to being an expensive repair, but all covered by the extended warranty. Very smooth shifts now. Good to go!! :thumbup:


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Good to hear that this thread is being helpful for everyone. That was a close Camjr! but great news. Enjoy!


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## patrykL (Jun 10, 2012)

hello, I've got skoda octavia II 1.6mpi (75kW) with ag6 09G, it's aisian tf-60sn I think,
the problem started when I changed the fluid after 60000km, the gearbox started to be "nervous", it shifts very fast (I mean faster then before) and the engine has no power, My questionis, is it possible that the reason is not in the gearbox (vb) but in the engine?
thank you and sorry for my english, but I haven't used it for many years


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## Desert465 (Aug 1, 2012)

This is a great thred and very helpfull. I have a 2004 VW with the 09G. Same slamin and bangin shifting issues . I wanted to try and change the valve body but the cheapest I found so far is almost $600. Has anyone found any cheaper. Has anyone had one sent out to be rebuilt ? 
It's my daughters car and for now it sits and $600 to $700 is not an aption for us. I hate to sell it for parts but I might have no option. 
Thanks 
Wayne


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

600-700 is DIRT CHEAP. 

Dealer wants 1200


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Hi Desert465, 
Bought mine from Reamman Valve Bodies. They do receive your old Valve Body. 
Can’t remember the price but it was like $550 for a rebuilt unit and if you send your old they’ll reduce it for like $450. 
Give them a Call, I'm sure they can help you out. 

http://www.reamman.com


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

All, when you find the 09G acting up, please make sure to reset the adaptive shift program first and foremost. This is the number one solution to complaint, depending on the severity of such. I would hate for anyone to through away $500 to later realize that the computer was causing the shift timing issues. Following this, it may take up to 50 miles of regular driving to allow the TCM to fine tune the shifts and the shift characterisitcs may be worse after the reset, this is normal and they will improve, I promise. Will it solve your shift concerns? Well, that is what we are trying to determine. Following this, you could do pressure tests at the various taps or log the shift points with VCDS, though most folks don't want to or have the time to diagnose the issue to this extent. In that case, the next point is replacement of the VB with a reputable VB vendor. I have only worked with VB Xpress, who would be like the Cadillac of VB's but you are going to pay. As Sphak has mentioned, Ream Man seems to be building significant credibilty in this arena. At this time, these are the only two vendors I would recommend, even over a unit from VW. The latter units may or may not incorporate any upgrades over the defective designs of what you have in your car now. I am unaware of any design changes from the inception of this transmission to those coming of the line today. I would like to think that this is not the case, but there is no literature stating this, except they have changed vendors/design of their unreliable solenoids. The primary failure mode of the VB's is wear at various valve/bore sites, as well as soelnoid issues. This is not a unit where a simple solenoid swap will be a cure-all, like those of previous VW transmissions. Please send me a PM if you have more questions, comments, or info.

Good luck!

Brad


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## Pudemup (Aug 6, 2012)

*Four different part numbers for valve body*

My 2007 2.5 Jetta has a hard upshift between 3-4 @ 39-40 mph only when warm. Pretty certain vb needs replaced. Dealer said there are four different vb's for this unit. They gave me part #09G 325 039A but were absolutely useless in which one it was. They said they had to take out the old one for comparison. I found the following pictures but the part numbers are different. Can anyone help which part number I need.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

This is true, there are four different VB's for the 09G, however for your year there are two. The way to determine which one you have requires you only to open your hood. Look on the top of the transmission back by the firewall and look for a small can-looking part on top of the transmission with two lines going into the top. The can looks ribbed or corrugated. This is your case cooler. If this is not present, you will see a odd looking pad on top of the transmission where this would go if called for. Whether you have this case cooler present determines which VB you have. Most, have this cooler, but it is good to verify this. Again, I would not recommend buying a VB from the dealer. Let me know if you have more questions or are having a tough time finding the case cooler. Good luck!

Brad


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## emryk1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hello, Newbie here,

I've been asked to look at a car for a friend. It is an 08 Jetta 2.5 with the 09G. She had it towed (200miles) to a dealer a couple of weeks ago because it clunked when going into gear and wouldn't shift out of 3rd gear. The dealers scan found a 00268 (solenoid valve 6 N93 open/short to ground intermittent) and they claim to have found some pinched wires at the trans wiring connector. To the tune of almost $600, they replaced the connector, erased the codes, and sent her on her trip home. She made it about halfway before the same problem arose.
I have VCDS as I have an 08 Rabbit 2.5. I ran a scan and found that it was coming up with the same code that the dealer got as well as a CAN gateway 001044 (Control module incorrectly coded) .Upon driving the car this morning, it seemed to be shifting just fine. The check engine light was on as well as the PRNDS all lit up. There was no hard shifting as I see described by many other people. I reset the code which shut the engine light off and made the PRNDS normal again and everything seemed okay. I drove the car at highway speed for about 20 miles with no problems. I stopped to check my VCDS, as I had it monitoring a few things, and the code came back up as well as the car going back into 'limp' mode. I tried resetting the codes but it would not shift out of 3rd gear. I got the car back home and let it cool off for a couple of hours wnd now everything seems back to normal.
By the looks of this forum, it looks like a VB replacement may be necessary eventually but being that the car shifts fine otherwise, do you think that I could get away with just replacing the N93 solenoid? The car only has 106000km(60000miles). I think I would change the VB if it were my car but I don't think my friend is prepared to dish out the $$$. Even though I work cheap. lol.


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## VR6TX (Aug 26, 2010)

*A/T - High Launch RPM's/DTC P0716/P0740*

Condition 
Transmission, DSG*, Intermittent Engagement Delay Upon Acceleration 
* DSG is Volkswagen Group's trademark for double clutch transmission. 

Intermittent delay in power transfer upon acceleration.May be accompanied by a slight jerking sensation when pulling away on vehicles with DSG transmission. 

Upon acceleration engine RPMs may reach between 2000 rpm and 4000 rpm before the vehicle will pull away.The complaint occurs mainly on warm engine. 










37 06 07 Dec. 22, 2006 2012681 
Technical Background 
Failure of the sensor for the transmission RPM input -G182- and for the clutch temperature sensor -G509-, caused by: 
- Wiring harness connector not correctly slotted. 
- Sensor faulty or wiring harness damage. 

Either one of the fault entries may be logged in the fault memory: 
17100 or P0716 Input Turbine/Speed Sensor (A) Circuit Range/Performance 
18148 or P1740 Clutch Temperature Monitoring 

Production Solution 
Improved production. 

Service 










NOTE: It is not necessary to replace the Mechatronics Unit. 
- Ensure that the wiring harness connector is fully seated and locked into position, then recheck DTCs. 

If DTCs are still present, further diagnosis is needed. 

Check the wiring harness connector, terminal ends and harness routing for transmission input RPM -G182- / clutch temperature sender -G509-. 
If wiring harness connector, terminal ends and harness routing for transmission input RPM -G182- / clutch temperature sender -G509- are OK: 
- Replace sensor -G182-. 









Warranty 
Required Parts and Tools 
No Special Parts required.Always see ETKA for the latest part(s) information. 

No Special Tools required.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

I would re-post this in the DSG category. This is not the 09G.

Brad


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

bump


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## RichardSEL (Apr 5, 2010)

So there I was, looking for info on throttle body adaption, and this thread came up.
As I've got the 09G box, was fascinated -- although it doesn't take much  
And it's readable as well -- which helps

Was a sticky and/or FAQ ever made of this? The info here and background is awesome
Yep, over here VW UK and their dealers are still saying: "It's sealed for life, sir!"
In my youth ran Rover V8s with Borg Warner 35 boxes and it wasn't true then; with the electronic sophistication of today's boxes it certainly isn't true now:facepalm:

Did my fluid change at 2k miles or so ago on my '06 tFSI Estate now at 56k -- got the Blauparts kit to do it with which supplies Meyle ATF VI with Blauparts sticker on the bottle saying meets VW 
G 055 025 A2 spec, and apart from a couple of lumpy changes driving back from garage in rush hour traffic, it's been fine in auto, sport, and tip modes

Thanks again for this thread...


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Good to hear that this thread is helping others, I would say that pretty much all the credit goes to Brad, he was the one who helped me and others with our issues with the 09G.

I wanted to give you guys a heads up. My transmission is great now, and it’s been without an issue since the VB was replaced. However, doing some research here in vortex, I ended up looking for the Motor Mount (“Dog Bone” Mount) and read really great posts about people amazed with the motor mount sold by HPA and its results.

I bought my dog bone mount a while back and installed it this December. The mount is well made and I’ve bought a few things from HPA before with no regrets but this motor mount is NOT for the 09G.

http://www.hpamotorsport.com/mounts.htm

The first time I tested my car, there was tons of vibration in the chassis. I guess that’s because it’s made from urethane which is stronger than rubber. So I’m now back with the OEM Mount which is cheaper by the way! 

So, be aware guys the “Dog Mount” motor mount is not for us, probably it was intended for the DSG.


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## thijsvandamme (Jan 19, 2013)

*Test drive with B6 Passat, transmission problem*

Today i'm shopping for a used 2007 Passat 2.0T with 90000 miles on it. Ok its not a new car but still, its my hard earned money that i'm willing to spend. After noticing that my seat would not move, the switches and panels in the doors were pealing off... i took it for a testdrive. Everything went smooth no vibration, all good. 

Then, a red light, it jumps to green and i step on the accelerator (full throttle), i saw the rev needle jumping up and down, the car could not find a gear. When applied throttle slowly but steady it seemed to be ok, then did the same thing while driving, overtaking somebody, full throttle same thing the car went nuts... did not know what gear to go to? engine going up and down not knowing what to do.... 

So now my question is, is this a transmission problem? Does the car needs time to adjust its settings to my aggressive driving style? 

Let me know because i'm in the market for one of these cars.


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## magarmuch (Jan 21, 2013)

*Adaptive Shift program reset.*



bjohns86 said:


> All, when you find the 09G acting up, please make sure to reset the adaptive shift program first and foremost. This is the number one solution to complaint, depending on the severity of such. I would hate for anyone to through away $500 to later realize that the computer was causing the shift timing issues. Following this, it may take up to 50 miles of regular driving to allow the TCM to fine tune the shifts and the shift characterisitcs may be worse after the reset, this is normal and they will improve, I promise. Will it solve your shift concerns? Well, that is what we are trying to determine. Following this, you could do pressure tests at the various taps or log the shift points with VCDS, though most folks don't want to or have the time to diagnose the issue to this extent. In that case, the next point is replacement of the VB with a reputable VB vendor. I have only worked with VB Xpress, who would be like the Cadillac of VB's but you are going to pay. As Sphak has mentioned, Ream Man seems to be building significant credibilty in this arena. At this time, these are the only two vendors I would recommend, even over a unit from VW. The latter units may or may not incorporate any upgrades over the defective designs of what you have in your car now. I am unaware of any design changes from the inception of this transmission to those coming of the line today. I would like to think that this is not the case, but there is no literature stating this, except they have changed vendors/design of their unreliable solenoids. The primary failure mode of the VB's is wear at various valve/bore sites, as well as soelnoid issues. This is not a unit where a simple solenoid swap will be a cure-all, like those of previous VW transmissions. Please send me a PM if you have more questions, comments, or info.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Brad


 Brad, thanks for sharing your knowledge. I have an 03 Audi TT with a 09G transmission giving me harsh shifting between gears. Just spoke to an Audi technician who recommended to perform a "capacitive discharge" to reset the computers to factory by disconnecting the battery terminals and touching them together for aprox 40sec. Do you know of this procedure and do you see any harm on doing this. Thanks.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Magarmuch,

The dealer is mis-informed. This technique does not work or at least I have never had it work for me nor have heard of others' success. He is correct in promoting the reset of the adpative shift but the only realistic way to do this is taking it to the dealer (ick!) or getting a VCDS program or finding someone who has one and have them reset it. It is actaully an 'adaptation' of the engine control module, oddly enough. I suspect that you are resetting several controls simultaneously this way. I would also change the transmission fluid and filter, if you haven't done so already. This way you can see what sort of metal contamination is present. being that the unit is 10 yrs old, I wouldn't be surprised if the VB is the cause of your complaints, but I would absolutely cover the simple checks first. Let me know if you have any more questions or need more specific answers. Good luck!

Brad


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## magarmuch (Jan 21, 2013)

I tried the so called "capacitive discharge" it did nothing, car ran just like before. So I decided to order a rebuilt VB from http://www.reamman.com. I talked to them before ordering, they said no need to reset the computer, just change the VB and it should work fine as long as there is no other fault with the car. So now I wait for the unit to arrive on Friday, if it is not too cold I will attempt to change it out. I also ordered the filter from rockauto.com and found comparable ATF at PepBoys (Royal Purple). I would like to post pictures but don't see at "attach file" any ware.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Don't put too much weight in Reamman's suggestion. Anytime the VB is replaced, the adaptive shifts should be reset because even though the internals didn't change the soelnoids and shift valve spring settings may have changed enough to cause issues. The computer adapts more slowly over time then when it is immediately reset. I am not sure about Royal Purple's product line, just make sure it is Dexron VI or specifically notes the VW spec. Good luck!

Brad


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## magarmuch (Jan 21, 2013)

received the parts (VB, Filter and oil) will try and install tomorrow. Is there some way to upload pictures?


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Here is how to upload pics. Its from a different forum but its basically the same here. 

http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6632


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## magarmuch (Jan 21, 2013)

bjohns86 said:


> Don't put too much weight in Reamman's suggestion. Anytime the VB is replaced, the adaptive shifts should be reset because even though the internals didn't change the soelnoids and shift valve spring settings may have changed enough to cause issues. The computer adapts more slowly over time then when it is immediately reset. I am not sure about Royal Purple's product line, just make sure it is Dexron VI or specifically notes the VW spec. Good luck!
> 
> Brad


 Is it possible to add oil from the top of the transmission? Looks like there is a plug on the top of the transmission with a TORX head.


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## magarmuch (Jan 21, 2013)

OK, finally done with the swap out, all smooth now. The trans was almost 100% smooth shifting right from the get go. Did not do any adaptive relearn or reset the computer. It took one short trip of 15 miles with about 5 to 10 stops and the tyranny is smooth as silk. The car has 75K miles, ATF had never need changed, what came out was really dirty and dark. 

Made my own oil filler adapter. Very simple cheap and immediately available at your local Home Depot store, pluming section. The thread matches 100%. 










Used some rubber washers on the adapter because the thread is too long. 










Pump from NAPA, only $8


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

magarmuch said:


> Made my own oil filler adapter. Very simple cheap and immediately available at your local Home Depot store, pluming section. The thread matches 100%.


That thread is 1/4 pipe thread. Actually the thread should be is 10mm x 1.0. 

1/4 inch is very close and its fine to use since your fitting is plastic. I've seen guys use 1/4 inch on a aluminum case and damage the threads. 1/4 would be fine to use if you only tighten by hand!


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

magarmuch said:


> Is it possible to add oil from the top of the transmission? Looks like there is a plug on the top of the transmission with a TORX head.


you cant fill there. It has pressure there.


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## wushugs (Oct 1, 2008)

hi all, i've had the car since 08-2008, 49800miles
its happened 3 times throught the years, 3rd this morning on the highway.. 
each time, it was on the highway, no shifting, just randomly came on, it wasn't flashing or anything, no cel either just inverted selection showing "PRNDS", and was not in emergency mode and stuck 3rd like most i've read

i got to work, turned car off turned back on and it went away.

i have a obdii bluetooth scanner to scan codes when i turned the car back on, and got nothing (should've plugged in when the error was still there)

i did search and most came up on phaeton section of vortex. so far i've read, loose transmission shift magnet to bad valve, and bad temp sensor in dsg trannys...
any help guys?


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## magarmuch (Jan 21, 2013)

wushugs said:


> hi all, i've had the car since 08-2008, 49800miles
> its happened 3 times throught the years, 3rd this morning on the highway..
> Each time, it was on the highway, no shifting, just randomly came on, it wasn't flashing or anything, no cel either just inverted selection showing "prnds", and was not in emergency mode and stuck 3rd like most i've read
> 
> ...



has the at fluid been changed in the last 50k miles, if not i would start there.


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## wushugs (Oct 1, 2008)

i have a tranny flush this sat. as a part of 50k maintaince
the issue is that it happens so randomly and seldomly that it might be months before the next time it'll happen:screwy:


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## BMohlman (Feb 24, 2013)

*2006 Jetta*

Thanks all for starting/maintaining this thread, I bought my daugther a 2006 Jetta 2.5 about a year ago, about 3-4 Months ago she told me it started acting funny. It's at about 91K Miles and said some times when she goes to pull out from a stop (1st to 2nd gear) it appears the tranny slips then engages.(This happens very intermittently) Also, it shifts hard from 2-3 and sometimes 4-5 gear. The dash isn't flashing and my albeit low buck ODBII scanner shows no codes. I am going to start with replacing the fluid/filter, and was looking at the Ross Tech scan/software and interface. Does anyone have experience with the Ross Tech tool? Will it do the adaptive reset on the controller that is discussed here? Also, if I do need to do the VB replacement, how do I tell which VB I need so I don't order the wrong one? Lastly, on tupa's post of the document, it describes getting the radio code how do I know if I need to get the code and where do I find it? Is there a place I can purchase the 09G tranny tech manual?

Many thanks to all who contribute to this thread, I was bummed out thinking I would have to junk the car, or sell a kidney to fix. You have given me a glimmer of hope that it may not be quite as bad!!!

Brian


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## n2verts (Feb 26, 2013)

*O9G Valve Body*

Looking for some info on the 09G trans valve body for an 05 Beetle. I'm swapping out the valve body and need to know torque values for the 12 perimeter MX6 bolts that hold it in place. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

All of the valve body to case bolts should be torqued to 80 in-lbs. Any sensors that may have been removed should be torqued to 62 in-lbs. If you need the location of the various length bolts let me know. You will have 16, 21, and 28 mm long bolts and they all have a special home.

Brad


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## SlimC (Apr 3, 2013)

*Issue with my Jetta 09G tranny*


Hello all,
Thank for all those threads and learn us about this common issue.
I bought my jetta from a dealer which is an intermediaire between the owner and I last mid-august.
I didn't fell anything when I tried it for about 10 min. When I came back home from the dealers with the car (1 hour from my spot), I experienced the hard shift. I wrote an email to the dealers to inform him that ther is a problem with the transmission. I brought him the car to check with his mechanic and he told me to let the car for 2 days and the mechanic will work on it. The mechanic changed the TCM, we (dealer and I) paid to the mechanic 1000 dollards but the problem will occur. I brought the car for the second time and now the mechanic told us we have to change the Valve Body. He change it by a refurbished and paid again for 1000 dollars. The problem is not solved and ask now to make a flush of the tranny and change all the fluid.
The car was under warranty extension until 13 august 2012 and unfrotunetely VW america don't want to take it in charge because I called him in march to explain my problem and the warranty expired just before i bought it (currently the car has 87 000 miles).

What tips could you give me to solve this issue ? Can I take a lawyer to ask the dealers to assume that he soldme a car with major pb ?

thanks.

Slim.


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

CoolAirVw said:


> you cant fill there. It has pressure there.


Can you elaborate on this point, CoolAirVw? Some MINI's have this same transmission and I have seen their DIYs where they fill via this plug, I believe it's a T55 torx bit. I understand the book method is to fill from the drain hole with a 6262/2 adapter tool, but I don't see why filling from the top wouldn't also work.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

truwagen said:


> Can you elaborate on this point, CoolAirVw? Some MINI's have this same transmission and I have seen their DIYs where they fill via this plug, I believe it's a T55 torx bit. I understand the book method is to fill from the drain hole with a 6262/2 adapter tool, but I don't see why filling from the top wouldn't also work.


I was looking at the bolt on the right. After looking again its the range sensor bolt. I assumed it was a pressure tap. 

If the plug "under" the range sensor doesn't have pressure then maybe you could fill there. 

Obviously if there is 50-70 psi on a pressure tap then you would have to have higher pressure than that to "push" fluid into it. And dont even try it if there is pressure there.


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

When I did the valve body change, the transmission was filled from above without any tool. Just a funnel. I’m confused now if that was correct. but it's been running great.


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## truwagen (Jun 14, 2007)

sphak said:


> When I did the valve body change, the transmission was filled from above without any tool. Just a funnel. I’m confused now if that was correct. but it's been running great.


Not by the book, but probably fine. I think VW recommends filling from the pan simply because it increases the chance that the fill level is proper (via the overflow fill tube). That, and it's probably easier. I know in my Jettas, the T55 bolt on top (pictured above) would be quite hard to get to without removing some extra stuff above it.


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## Mayn4u (Jun 7, 2013)

*Great info*

This is an incredible thread. It helped me understand the 09G in alot more detail. Another option for alot of the more mechanical folks is the Valve body rebuild option. If interested check out this youtube video. Hiram Gutierrez 09G valve body rebuild. I just finished mine yesterday and its shifting "silky smooth".

Mayn


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## jsenske (Jul 7, 2013)

I'm having the slip bang between 1st and 2nd on my 2008 jetta 2.5. Does the do it yourself method really work to reset the adaptive shifting. How can I change the shift between 1 and 2 or do I just need a reman valve body. Only starts doing it when at full operating temp. Please help I don't wanna wreck transmission. Everything else works flawlessly over smooth. Its like 1st let's go then a couple seconds later 2nd bangs in slightly. I know someone said you could adjust just this on the valve body just want to know my options. Thanks and I did replace fluid and filter at 52000 miles it now has 67000

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Sorry to hear that Jsenske
Same thing happened to me, first it was between 1st and 2nd... then I began noticing the same from 2nd to 3rd.
I recommend you to replace or repair your valve body.
It’s a waste of time to reset the adaptive shifting, I did nothing to my car.

Your symptoms are the same that I had, transmission shift fine when cold but begin slipping when you get to the operating temperature.


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## jsenske (Jul 7, 2013)

Is there a way to repair just that part of it or just go with rebuilt one
Thanks ahead for the help
Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2


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## sphak (Mar 25, 2010)

Depending on the store that is closet to you, you can send your valve body so they repair it. 
Or you can also buy a rebuilt unit and then send your valve body to get a refund.

I used Valve Body Express. Bought a rebuilt unit for like $600
http://www.valvebodyxpress.com/


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

it's possible to fill from top?


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## RichardSEL (Apr 5, 2010)

No. Use a VAS6262/2 tool. Connect to rubber hose. Connect hose to fresh ATF bottle cap. 
ATF should be at 40ºC monitored by VCDS. Fill until level of ATF just drips out. Total capacity 6L, refill capacity 3½L as remainder caught in torque convertor and solenoids. 

Don't bother with "topping up" like auto gearboxes of old. If you're doing this job then drop the pan and change the filter as well. Mine at 51k from new had fine filings around pan magnets, blackened original ATF, and black deposits around solenoids and pan. Cleaned all. Service interval 40k


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## suhrfam (Sep 30, 2013)

*2006 Jetta 2.5 Transmission Problems*

Hi Guys - just picked up a 2006 Jetta 2.5 that seems to have the same problems you have been describing. In my case, I can drive for a short period of time, but the more I drive, the bigger the problem becomes. My main issue is the slamming of the gears from 3->4 and then sometimes 4 does not even engage. It is only during city driving. One time, the gears were downshifting and it became stuck in 3rd gear and one other time in 5th gear. Only after letting the car sit overnight was the car able to be driven again. Do you think it could be a VB? I have had the TCM replaced with a used, younger one and that helped for about 7 days. Thanks!!!


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

suhrfam said:


> Hi Guys - just picked up a 2006 Jetta 2.5 that seems to have the same problems you have been describing. In my case, I can drive for a short period of time, but the more I drive, the bigger the problem becomes. My main issue is the slamming of the gears from 3->4 and then sometimes 4 does not even engage. It is only during city driving. One time, the gears were downshifting and it became stuck in 3rd gear and one other time in 5th gear. Only after letting the car sit overnight was the car able to be driven again. Do you think it could be a VB? I have had the TCM replaced with a used, younger one and that helped for about 7 days. Thanks!!!


good chance VB work will fix it.


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## americanyoshi (Oct 7, 2013)

*Experiencing the same problems described here*

I've been experiencing the same problems with a used 2006 2.5 Jetta 150,000 miles on it.I'm really trying to avoid the dealer from what I've been reading here seems to accurately diagnose the problem. I called them and they said it would cost $130 just to check what is wrong. 

To cover the basics: the car runs well initially for a while, then when warm it starts upshifting/downshifting hard. Even to the point where all the gear light boxes light up sometimes if I drive long enough

What do I do first?
1.Adaptive reset
2.if ^^ fails then purchase a vb

1.Or do I check the transmission fluid first before anything. 
-Adaptive reset
-if ^^ fails then purchase a vb


I was about to do the adaptive reset by taking out the fuses like mentioned since I don't have a scanner. Also I haven't even checked the transmission fluid.

But from what I've read a scanner is needed to replace the trans fluid. Am I correct on this? Also which one would I purchase? Ross tech advertise two compatible ones for my car but will they both do the adaptive reset and scan the info needed for my situation? It says the 249 MicroCan and 349 HexUSB. I'm almost willing just to buy the more expensive one, but I'm worried the cost of fixing my car may be more than the vb, etc.


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## americanyoshi (Oct 7, 2013)

Also is there a helpful link or video for a 2006 2.5 Jetta transmission oil change out there. I've found the basic procedure from watching other videos but am not sure if it will be the same for my car.

-Also I know almost absolutely nothing about cars just to add.


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## RichardSEL (Apr 5, 2010)

americanyoshi said:


> I've been experiencing the same problems with a used 2006 2.5 Jetta 150,000 miles on it.I'm really trying to avoid the dealer from what I've been reading here seems to accurately diagnose the problem. I called them and they said it would cost $130 just to check what is wrong.
> To cover the basics: the car runs well initially for a while, then when warm it starts upshifting/downshifting hard. Even to the point where all the gear light boxes light up sometimes if I drive long enough
> 
> What do I do first?
> ...


The VCDS Micro Can+USB should cover a 2006 Jetta, there's a compatibility chart on the VAG-Com website to check. 
Then with that do your re-adaption to see whether that's any better?
If the transmission fluid hasn't been changed or you don't know its history then go ahead and get that done. 
If you're doing ATF change then change filter too. I don't know what box the 2.5L Jetta came with, but VCDS will identify it from it's control module. 

Not a Jetta here just the 09G in a Passat relevent to this thread. Did my ATF change at 51k and been smooth since apart from a couple of lumpy changes coming back from workshop. Before was getting them often. Now at 62k on this '06MY tFSI 2.0L Passat

(later) Just noticed from another thread that yours might be an 09A box:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5801492-09A-Need-To-Change-Solenoids-Large-Photo-Of-Valve-Body/page2


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## Volar (Jan 2, 2007)

Does anyone know if the transmission units are swap-able? i have an HFU, would i be able to drop an HMU in?


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

Possible to fill from top.


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## americanyoshi (Oct 7, 2013)

*Update*

I had the valve body swapped in for a new one after replacing the atf fluid and filter. The mechanic tried to tell me I needed a new rebuilt transmission, and that this would not fix the entire problem I was having. I told him to do it anyways and now there are no more harsh upshifts and down shifts on the 2-3 gears or lit up gear boxes. YES.

It is shifting MUCH better than it was before, and seems pretty good, but should or do I need to reset it? (By pulling out the trans fuses from the fuse box?) I am planning on doing it and how do I treat the SPORT vs REGULAR modes when doing this reset? Must I do one before the other, how long etc?


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

Can I use Mobil 1 ATF 3309 ?


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

Fantomasz said:


> Possible to fill from top.


Interesting idea to fill from that sensor port, and cool video. :thumbup:

I actually thought of using the "measure what you take out" approach, since I didn't have a VCDS to take the new fluid temp when re-filling. Only issue I see with that method is that if you're replacing the filter, there's a certain amount of fluid soaked into the filter element that's not being taken into account when you measure the amount of old fluid drained. Whether it's enough to matter, I don't know. But I'll just put this out there as another inexpensive option - you can buy an infrared thermometer for under $20 and use it to get a pretty accurate read of fluid temp by reading the temp across the bottom of the pan. Worked great for me.


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## halcyonproject (Nov 15, 2013)

Is there a way to identify which variant of the 09G you have without removing the pan? Dealership is of no help as they won't supply me a part number and apparently there is a large and small solenoid variant (as well as placement of the cooler, but I can confirm that is on the case) but would rather avoid having to refill while awaiting shipment of the new vb. Any help would be much appreciated.


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

I have been reading through this thread and I think my problem is similar but i'm hoping for some feedback. I have a 2006 Jetta 2.5 Value Edition. My transmission shifts just fine the first 10 - 15 minutes of driving and then it starts slipping when changing from the 3-4 gears. If I slide the transmission into manual shift it doesn't seem to do it as much, the same goes for if it put it in sport shifting mode. 

I took it to the dealer to have it checked and to replace the fluid. They said it didn't have any codes and they didn't see anything unusual when they changed the fluid. I figured I was just going to have to deal with it but it seems to be getting worse. I am going to try the adaptive reset I have seen mentioned in this thread. But does this sound like the VB or is it something more serious?

Thanks


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

I ran into this. I -just- bought a 2006 jetta, with 6 speed tranny, 5 cylinder engine for $5800.

Few days after purchase I noticed anytime the tranny went around second gear...it knocked and hit hard.

Did my research and found the valvebody issue.

Fortunately, the car came with with a 90 day, 3000 mile warranty. Brought it to the dealer. They did the complete valve body replacement, fluid flush, new filter, new gasket for about $1400.
Warranty paid for all except about $100..which I can live with.

Car has 120k miles on it. Picked up the car 3 days ago, thats how fresh this is. Feeling of the tranny is night and day difference. Super smooth shifts.

Not fixing it was not an option as this was to be the wifes car.

Unless you're going to dump the car....just have to fix it.


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

So what is the issue with the valve body. Does it cause it to shift hard, slip or both? Does it do it when it is cold or warm? 

I have experienced a few hard shifts but mainly mine just slips between the 3rd and the 4th gear and only once I've been driving it for a while. I would hate to replace the VB only to find out it wasn't the problem.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

cckeeler said:


> So what is the issue with the valve body. Does it cause it to shift hard, slip or both? Does it do it when it is cold or warm?


From what I've seen the car drives perfectly cold. Once you really get on the gas and heat up the tranny fluid...thats when the harsh shifting occurs. 
Practically all 2005-2009 Jetta's with the 6 speed tranny could have this issue as VW extended the warranty period due to this being a known problem.


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> From what I've seen the car drives perfectly cold. Once you really get on the gas and heat up the tranny fluid...thats when the harsh shifting occurs.
> Practically all 2005-2009 Jetta's with the 6 speed tranny could have this issue as VW extended the warranty period due to this being a known problem.


by harsh shifting is it actual instances where you feel a big thud, or are you talking slipping as well?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

cckeeler said:


> by harsh shifting is it actual instances where you feel a big thud, or are you talking slipping as well?


My car would have a big thud going from 1 to 2....or downshifting from 3 to 2.

Go back and read the whole thread..tons of awesome info here.


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## halcyonproject (Nov 15, 2013)

cckeeler said:


> by harsh shifting is it actual instances where you feel a big thud, or are you talking slipping as well?


Both. First symptoms seem to be hard shifts with occasional hard "thud" from 1-2 and 2-3 (and occasionally in reverse). As the issue progresses the slipping begins and progressively gets worse. I just ordered a replacement VB from Reamman, cost was $700 shipped so it has definitely gone up over time, VW wanted $900+


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

cckeeler said:


> I have been reading through this thread and I think my problem is similar but i'm hoping for some feedback. I have a 2006 Jetta 2.5 Value Edition. My transmission shifts just fine the first 10 - 15 minutes of driving and then it starts slipping when changing from the 3-4 gears. If I slide the transmission into manual shift it doesn't seem to do it as much, the same goes for if it put it in sport shifting mode.
> 
> I took it to the dealer to have it checked and to replace the fluid. They said it didn't have any codes and they didn't see anything unusual when they changed the fluid. I figured I was just going to have to deal with it but it seems to be getting worse. I am going to try the adaptive reset I have seen mentioned in this thread. But does this sound like the VB or is it something more serious?
> 
> Thanks


Sounds like it to me. I don't know if the VB issue will throw any codes.


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

I was under the impression that it wouldn't cause any codes. Either way I've got to figure out what is causing the slipping. 

So what about sport mode or manually changing the gear would cause the problems to go away?

Also, How do I go about finding out which valve body I need?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

My tranny issue caused no check engine lights. It just shifted bad between 1-2 and or 2-3 or 3-2.


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

I see a lot of references to rough shifting between 1-2 and 2-3, the fact that mine is only 3-4 is what has me worried its something other than the VB.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

What vehicles was this tranny used in besides the Jetta...anybody know for sure?

And what years would be affected?


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

My transmission started doing the same thing. The car has now 167,000 miles on it and transmission starts to slip mainly 1-2 and 2-3, but over the last few days I noticed that once the transmission fluid temperature is up, going from 3-4 is weird, kind of stop-go. The RPMs basically drop and go back up.

I replaced the engine 70,000 miles ago (whole different story) and since the tranny had to come out, I replaced the fluid. I think I go ahead and replace fluid/filter first before spending 1K or so on a VB.

The video shown is a great idea but I like to add that you can/need to check the level of fluid at some point. You can do this by removing the drain plug and see if there is any fluid coming out. If there is not, you are low (I think that is how it was).


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

A lot of good stuff here. Many of which, sad to say has been addressed earlier in the thread. The vast majority of concerns listed here are due to worn valve bores in the valve body. The 09G is notorious for premature wear problems, which is why VW extended the drivetrain warranty to i believe 10 yr./100k miles. Unfortunately, they throw on a new VB with little to no updates so the problem often reappears in 30-35k miles later. The best option is replacing the VB with an aftermarket version (Reamman or Valve Body Xpress) which update the many valves that show wear problems as well as rebuild the problematic linear solenoids. Addressing Halcyons question on VB identification, there are 6 different VB configurations; first look at wether you have a case cooler or an external cooler. Case coolers are more common and look like a stubby, ribbed pop can on the top of the rear (near the firewall) portion of the transmission with two hoses going into it. If this is missing than it has an external cooler. Next, transmissions made before 6/04 have pressure sensors and those after this date are without. Also, if possible, look at the solenoids; large solenoids are about 1" diameter whereas small solenoids are 3/4" in diameter.

- VB with pressure sensors, external cooler (6/04)
- VB with pressure sensors, case cooler (6/04)
- VB w/o pressure sensors, external cooler, large solenoids (post 6/04)
- VB w/o pressure sensors, case cooler, large solenoids (post 6/04)
- VB w/o pressure sensors, external cooler, small solenoids (post 6/04)
- VB w/o pressure sensors, case cooler, small solenoids (post 6/04)

Good Luck!

Brad


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## halcyonproject (Nov 15, 2013)

bjohns86 said:


> A lot of good stuff here. Many of which, sad to say has been addressed earlier in the thread. The vast majority of concerns listed here are due to worn valve bores in the valve body. The 09G is notorious for premature wear problems, which is why VW extended the drivetrain warranty to i believe 10 yr./100k miles. Unfortunately, they throw on a new VB with little to no updates so the problem often reappears in 30-35k miles later. The best option is replacing the VB with an aftermarket version (Reamman or Valve Body Xpress) which update the many valves that show wear problems as well as rebuild the problematic linear solenoids. Addressing Halcyons question on VB identification, there are 6 different VB configurations; first look at wether you have a case cooler or an external cooler. Case coolers are more common and look like a stubby, ribbed pop can on the top of the rear (near the firewall) portion of the transmission with two hoses going into it. If this is missing than it has an external cooler. Next, transmissions made before 6/04 have pressure sensors and those after this date are without. Also, if possible, look at the solenoids; large solenoids are about 1" diameter whereas small solenoids are 3/4" in diameter.
> 
> - VB with pressure sensors, external cooler (6/04)
> - VB with pressure sensors, case cooler (6/04)
> ...


Thanks, I managed to procure a part # from vw and reamman cross referenced it for me to make sure I got the right VB. Replacement done and issue is gone. The hard part with VB identification is the solenoids. If you don't have a lift it can be rather entertaining dropping the pan and not losing any fluid in the process, reamman was pretty confident in which vb regardless of ident but they wanted to be sure. All in all, full vb swap + filter/gasket required 5 full quarts of fluid to full, slightly more than anticipated as others have reported 3.5-4 quarts on a swap.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

halcyonproject said:


> Thanks, I managed to procure a part # from vw and reamman cross referenced it for me to make sure I got the right VB. Replacement done and issue is gone. The hard part with VB identification is the solenoids. If you don't have a lift it can be rather entertaining dropping the pan and not losing any fluid in the process, reamman was pretty confident in which vb regardless of ident but they wanted to be sure. All in all, full vb swap + filter/gasket required 5 full quarts of fluid to full, slightly more than anticipated as others have reported 3.5-4 quarts on a swap.


How difficult was is replacing the VB? Just drop the pan, remove/reinstall VB?


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## halcyonproject (Nov 15, 2013)

mhjett said:


> How difficult was is replacing the VB? Just drop the pan, remove/reinstall VB?


I'd say this depends on your level of expertise. The most important part is making a diagram of the wires noting color/location and where they route (take a picture as well). Pulling the vb off is pretty straight forward and is much easier with a lift, but can be done without (just prepare for the mess). Filling can be done via the drain plug w/ the tool listed in this thread or from the tranny access point also listed in this thread, fluid amount seems to vary so invest in at least 5 quarts to be safe. Job time would vary by tools available but should take anywhere from 1.5-3 hours assuming no issues with install/removal.


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## agraham83 (Dec 17, 2013)

Have read all of this thread and a huge thanks to Brad for his expertise.

Thanks to Brad pointing out that Volkswagen had extended the warranty on the 09G valve blocks I'm going to contact my local VW dealer. Hopefully the extended warranty also includes the UK where I'm based as my 2005 VW Golf FSI GT has just started with the rough gear changes after 10-15 minutes of use.


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## RobNC (Aug 17, 2005)

*Warranty extension - caveat - 7yr 100k mi NOT 10yr*

Just FYI, it's 7yr/100k mi. I called VWoA and they flatly refused to extend my valve body warranty, even though I only have 97k miles (2005.5 MK5 2.5L 6spd AT). They said I was 1.5yrs out of warranty (bought car in July 2005).

So if I understand all of these posts, it looks like the reman option is better, using VBX versus going OEM via dealer? I assume the dealer would just put the same one back in, versus VBX putting a newer and better design valve body?

Thanks for everyone's posts, very useful!!


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## Double0078 (Dec 30, 2013)

*Oil viscosity?*



CajunSpike said:


> My car would have a big thud going from 1 to 2....or downshifting from 3 to 2.
> 
> Go back and read the whole thread..tons of awesome info here.


My 09g does the same. It drives like a new box when cold, absolutely zero issues, then after 10-20 mins starts kicking like a horse from 1st to 2nd and slips 2nd to 3rd. downshifts are ok but when going from 3rd to 2nd bangs again. Is there a chance we can prolong our valve bodies by servicing with thicker oil, if my oil stayed the same viscosity as when cold the it would be perfect. Ive been looking at a replacement vb but stil trying to find a way around. Post to Australia is $300


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

I just call my dealer in Poland and no extendet warranty here.Only North America.I have american Rabbit with me in europe and they wont fix it.
My question is why waaranty are different if coutrys? Same part covered here but not covered there.WTF.


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

Anyone seen this video ?


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

Great info, brilliant thread.

1) I have found (I think earlier in this thread) http://postimg.org/image/bohhb724d/ which is instructions for the Valve Body replacement, but says 'BGP' engine. I have a BGQ (according to the dealer). Is the transmission actually different? Can I also use these instructions?

2) VBX and Ream Man seem to have been used by others on the thread, what about RevMax? Another option?

3) For an 09A transmission, I have see instructions for pulling the transmission back with a ratchet tie down and removing the front bumper. It is my understanding that this is not required for the 09G? True?

Thanks


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

The replacement procedure for the 09G VB is identical regradless of the engine code and is actually very easy assuming you have an in-lbs torque wrench and have a diagram or a picture of where the wiring harness went. If this poorly run forum let you post PDF's I would post the wiring info and anything else folks needed but I haven't discovered that trick so you'll have send me a message with your email for any procedures. Really the biggest pain in the ass is refilling the unit! As far as RevMax is concerned, I have never dealt with them. Being that VB Express and Ream Man cover the spectrum of prices I would try to stick with them. VB Express has a stronger reputation in my book but a few folks on here have had good luck with Ream Man as well. Also, no special procedures are needed to replace the VB. Just drain the fluid, drop the pan, drop the filter, carefully remove the wiring harness from the solenoids, keeping track of where they went (or ask me for the diagram) and drop the VB. You won't have to worry about check balls or oriface discs. Easy peasy.

Good Luck!

Brad


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## joehayes3839 (Jan 2, 2014)

Angle wrench -V.A.G 1756 is this tool needed for the removal of the valve body

thanks in advanvce


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## BeeTTlee (Mar 29, 2014)

Hello. I had rough downshift in mine for awhile. I did tons of research, it sounded almost normal. I took it to mechanic few weeks ago for checkup. He told me the transmission pan was hit and it been leaking and also there was a small oil leak that was ending up on transmission harness plug. 

He changed fluid,pan,harness and also fixed the oil leak. The rough downshift seem to be gone. It is possible fluid was little low or the oil on harness plug was doing it.


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## Fantomasz (Aug 15, 2001)

possible if he fix the problem


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## BeeTTlee (Mar 29, 2014)

Fantomasz said:


> possible if he fix the problem


It was definitely one of those. So far had it for one day and i haven't felt it do it anymore. He told me that oil leak is very common for this model and when it leaks it covers the plug with oil. Since that harness controls the transmission it is a good possibility.


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## ashleys05.5 (Apr 19, 2014)

*My first Volkswagen*

OK, so without doing research, assuming that Volkswagen makes a good car, I bought a 2005.5 Jetta with 105,000 miles on it for my wife. To my surprise, shortly after buying it, it starts shifting weird at operating temperature, "slip, bump" then progressively gets worse to a "slip, bang". So I start digging around the interwebs and stumble upon this thread. This is awesome, why didn't I think to do research first, I've done research on most other cars that I've bought! Any ways, I plan on buying a rebuilt vb from Reamman, being that I'm not exactly the richest guy in the world, and I plan on doing the replacement myself, for the most part. So, I have access to a lift, tools, and I'm slightly mechanically savvy, I know that the process should go something like this, but let me know if I'm missing any steps.
1. Remove splash guard.
2. Remove the drain plug from the bottom of the transmission oil pan, drain transmission oil into a measurable container. (Later I will know how much to put back into the transmission)
3. Remove oil pan and filter.
4. Take a picture of the valve body and all wiring, so I can put everything back the way it is supposed to be.
5. Disconnect wiring and remove valve body.
6. Put new valve body in, connect wiring, referencing picture.
7. Put in new filter, clean bottom of oil pan, bolt on oil pan.
8. Pump in new transmission oil via the oil drain plug.
9. (Maybe this isn't necessary) Get transmission flushed, so there is fresh clean oil in the rebuilt vb, along with the rest of the transmission.
So, to put it simply that's how it's done. Now, I have never done this before, so I know it'll be a little more complicated than that, so tell me what steps I'm missing. Also, I have scanned through this thread, and I did see that there is some type of fluid pump tool I'll need to pump the oil into the transmission. So where do I get one of these, and how much does it cost. (Or, what other options do I have to refill the transmission) Also, is the vb bolted into the transmission, and if so, how many lbs of torque do I need when replacing these bolts. And how many lbs of torque should be used on the oil pan? 
AGAIN, I am doing this myself with little experience in the department, so let me know what I'm missing. Is there a video somewhere I could watch of someone replacing the valve body on this exact transmission? That would be extremely helpful. (If there's not a specific video, maybe I could do one?)
By the way, Volkswagen does make a fine automobile, it's just that their choice of a transmission, valve body, and solenoid manufacturer, in this case, sucked majorly. In spite of their poor judgement, my wife and I really enjoy driving this car. (When the transmission wasn't acting up) It's 2.5L 5 cylinder engine is what I thought was a good idea. You almost get the fuel economy of a 4 cylinder, and almost get the power of a v6, which is precisely why I bought it. Most affordable stock 4 cylinder cars don't have enough get up and go, despite their awesome gas mileage, and most affordable stock v6 cars have too much for my wife. (I know this because I also have a 2003 Acura 3.2CL Type-S, which she hates driving, too much power) This car is a happy medium, and perfect for my wife, aside from the obvious issue which has given birth to this thread.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

Good luck with your valve body job. I don't have any experience or knowledge on that so I'm of no use, but I can point you to this DIY for draining/filling the 09G trans fluid and replacing the filter. It's a little complicated by the fact that there's no dipstick and you have to warm the fluid to a certain temp to get the level correct, but it's not bad. I used an infrared thermometer and it worked great (and I get plenty of other use out of it for home-brewing beer!). 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5284006-09G-6-speed-tiptronic-ATF-and-filter-change-DIY

By the way, I don't think the Bentley repair manual (the VW-approved repair manual, it has nothing to do with Bentley cars) covers any internal trans work, so you're going to need to find somebody with trans-specific knowledge/experience.


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## ashleys05.5 (Apr 19, 2014)

*Thanks!*

[SUB]Hey this was a ton of help! In a few months when I have the money saved up, and when I buy the vb, I'll try to do a video of my own or take pictures and post them up in here. I know that there are going to be more people out there that will need to do this, and I aim to help in any way that I can![/SUB]


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## gambleguan (Oct 18, 2012)

Just having the same problem with my 2006 jetta 2.5, (130k miles), good luck with your DIY, if you could post some videos for the whole process, that will be really helpful! 

Look forward to hearing good news from you!


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## ashleys05.5 (Apr 19, 2014)

*Does anyone know if a 2012 Jetta 2.5i has the same valve body as a 2005.5 Jetta 2.5? There's a 2012 Jetta being parted out on craigslist, and i was thinking I could get a bargain on one that way... If not, then it'll be a few more months before I save up the cash to buy a new valve body. I'll still take pics or a video so everyone can see what the process looked like.


Also, for some reason my font is really small, and I can't for the life of me find a font button on this forum reply typing page.....*


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## ashleys05.5 (Apr 19, 2014)

What I meant to say was: Is the valve body on the 2012 Jetta going to fit the 05.5 Jetta..... And, is it better? 
Did Volkswagen correct their problem with the vb's?
Obviously I wouldn't want to waste money on a vb that's just going to go bad again in however many miles...
If the 2012 vb's are just as bad as the older models, then I'll just get a rebuilt one, like I had originally planned.


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## cheetahking (Nov 15, 2008)

*Reamman*

I just completed this project on my sister in law's 2005.5 Jetta. I ordered the VB from the Reamman. They were great to deal with (we had an issue with a crack in a connection on one of the solenoids - which they rectified immediately). The replacement has been working the past few days wonderfully - no hard shifting at all. (88K on car - no trans service that we know of - was starting to become regular with hard shifting). 

One thing to note: I didn't get the special tool to fill the pan. I used a 10mm bleeder screw that I got from the local parts store, and ground off the pointy tip until it was hollow straight through. I slid a 1/4" hose on it and connected the other end to a funnel - worked fine. It did take a bit, but the bleeder screw worked fine. 

The project seems a bit daunting, but taken in steps its pretty simple. The wiring (draw a diagram) can really only go one way if the major bundles are located correctly.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

ashleys05.5 said:


> What I meant to say was: Is the valve body on the 2012 Jetta going to fit the 05.5 Jetta.....


I doubt a 2012 VB will fit a 2005.5. 

It would be my opinion that these problems are inherent in the way these things operate. I think were gonna be living with this problem for the rest of eternity.


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

1) google and find the VW/Audi PDF showing the steps on how to replace the valve body. I can't find the link, but I know I found both VW and Audi copies a few months ago when I looked. 

2) I tried ordering the 10mm drain tool from a few places, but no luck. I called AST (I think that's the name) directly and had it two days later. 

3) you missed a step with the spring and piston that fall out of the trans when you pull the vb down.

4) seems there are at least 4 VB options. Large or small solenoids + with and without external cooler. I used VIN at dealer and paid $900+tax for a reconditioned one from VW.

Not sure which thread I posted in, but I took photos of the process. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wins1052 (May 16, 2014)

this is very interesting, my car bet 3rd and 4th, and 4th and 5th neutralizes, I then take my foot of the X and then the gear would jump into the next gear
it is sometimes a hard jump, this happens while driving in auto, and only after say 10 -15 mins, driving on city streets (60km and under), it does not happen
on highways, my mechanics recomends changing the pistons seals and putting a "sleeve"????,,,i haven't dont it yet,has anyone tried this?


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## Quest4Adv (May 25, 2014)

Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for the help. My son's 07 Jetta started experiencing issues a few weeks ago. After reading through this forum it was pretty clear the VB was bad. He just bought this car with 80k miles on it and was pretty upset to find an issue.

Based on the info provided we decided we could replace the VB ourselves. Local VW garage wanted $1700 and he just doesn't have the money for that.

Ordered the VB from PCT. I called and talked to them today, seems like they know what they're doing and the price was right. Hopefully it will work out.

Ordered new filter, fluid, gasket, crush washer, and tried to order the VAS 6262/2 tool, but found it was backordered, so ordered the M10x10 to hose adapter from Jegs today.

Also just ordered the Ross-Tech VCDS interface. I figured with my 2010 CC, and his Jetta we'll use it enough to pay for it. (Plus it's really cool) 


So, I'll let you know how it goes once everything comes in!

Thanks again

Jeff


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

Quest4Adv said:


> Just wanted to thank everyone on this thread for the help. My son's 07 Jetta started experiencing issues a few weeks ago. After reading through this forum it was pretty clear the VB was bad. He just bought this car with 80k miles on it and was pretty upset to find an issue.
> 
> Based on the info provided we decided we could replace the VB ourselves. Local VW garage wanted $1700 and he just doesn't have the money for that.
> 
> ...


Have you seen this thread? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6860322-09G-DIY-filter-and-fluid-change-6-speed-auto

I put some pictures in of the VB change and some notes. The VW/Audi PDF for the change is pretty useful.


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## Quest4Adv (May 25, 2014)

SNS1938 said:


> Have you seen this thread? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6860322-09G-DIY-filter-and-fluid-change-6-speed-auto
> 
> I put some pictures in of the VB change and some notes. The VW/Audi PDF for the change is pretty useful.


Yes, I did find that thread and I think every other thread regarding VB's and 09G 

Thanks for the extra info, that will come in handy this weekend.

Everything we need came in today. The VB from PCT, the M10x1 to hose adapter from Jegs, and the VCDS from Ross-Tech. I almost feel like a real wrench turner! :laugh:


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## Quest4Adv (May 25, 2014)

Just wanted to thank everyone that has particapated in this thread. The knowledge gained by reading and following all the links was critical to my son's endeavor!

Poor kid is not the mechanically inclined and he got frustrated a few times when things didn't work out, but he was able to replace the VB with only a little help from me under the car. Holding that thing up and aligning the bolts and making sure the spring and plunger don't fall it was a bit tricky! 

Just took it on a test drive and it seem to shift very smoothly. I was monitoring data with Vag-com while he drove.

Thanks again! Couldn't have done it and saved the $900 in labor without you guys!


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## Mechitto (Aug 11, 2014)

*09G transmision*

Please help me guys, I have 2003 vw beetle 2l petrol 09G 6gears AT box and I need new transmission. from which VW models its good to put to my beetle? like vw golf V? audi a3?


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## smi2710 (Sep 6, 2001)

bring this thread back 

i didn't read everything but i have a possible problem car shifts fine up and in tiptronic it shifts great but otherwise it doesn't downshift. Any suggestions ??

thanks 
guys


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## jimsjetta (Jun 9, 2001)

Our 2012 Passat 2.5L with O9G tranny is downshifting very rough. My vagcom is giving codes:

Address 01: Engine (CBT) Labels: None
Part No SW: 07K 906 055 DD HW: 07K 907 309 A
Component: 2,5l R5/4V 01 5685
Revision: T6H02--- Serial number:
Coding: 0000075
Shop #: WSC 08408 001 1048576
VCID: 73EF76E312ACC886965-8026

2 Faults Found:
000262 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96)
P0106 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 10
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 71176 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2026.14.27
Time: 17:32:28

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 2076 /min
Load: 36.8 %
Speed: 107.0 km/h
Temperature: 87.0°C
Temperature: 41.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar

012408 - Throttle Control
P3078 - 000 - Airflow at Idle too Low - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 71375 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2026.14.29
Time: 08:12:56

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 903 /min
Load: 18.0 %
Speed: 58.0 km/h
Temperature: 87.0°C
Temperature: 24.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 970.0 mbar

Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09G-927-750.lbl
Part No SW: 09G 927 750 LH HW: 09G 927 750 LH
Component: AQ 250 6F 2043
Revision: 00H97000 Serial number:
Coding: 0000840
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 8201A327DD16710E0D3-80D7

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 12
Reset counter: 190
Mileage: 46733 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2017.14.30
Time: 14:57:17


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels: 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 379 BH HW: 1K0 907 379 BH
Component: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0121
Revision: 00H31001
Coding: C54BC0F5492508FEA30B03EC921F1061A60000
Shop #: WSC 09003 957 00200
VCID: 79F344CBF0C0B2D6DC9-802C

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 10
Reset counter: 206
Mileage: 70308 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2026.14.17
Time: 07:16:50

Freeze Frame:
Count: 0
Count: 32768
Count: 4608
Count: 8193
Count: 50432
Count: 253
Count: 65024
Count: 0

This has gone on for the past 30k miles. It was temporarily fixed (only for a few months) by the dealer when he flashed the ECU.

For the guys that have changed the VB due to hard/bad shifts, did you also have codes?

Thanks,


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## yeamonn (Apr 2, 2014)

Well.. my '06.5 MKV Jetta has a transmission that suffered from the valve body issue.. with a couple of resets, and "I think the the problem is gone now" the car eventually stopped shifting gears and got stuck with me on the highway three times. 

The mechanic says I need to replace the transmission now after 104,000 miles and quoted me $5k on a rebuild.

My question is this - where can I find a transmission or equivalent to the one in my Jetta? What year/make/model range has the same part in it? For example someone has a 2013 Golf AT transmission with the code PDW 51938 - but will that work? The trans code on mine is HFU, HRM.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

yeamonn said:


> Well.. my '06.5 MKV Jetta has a transmission that suffered from the valve body issue.. with a couple of resets, and "I think the the problem is gone now" the car eventually stopped shifting gears and got stuck with me on the highway three times.
> 
> The mechanic says I need to replace the transmission now after 104,000 miles and quoted me $5k on a rebuild.
> 
> My question is this - where can I find a transmission or equivalent to the one in my Jetta? What year/make/model range has the same part in it? For example someone has a 2013 Golf AT transmission with the code PDW 51938 - but will that work? The trans code on mine is HFU, HRM.


Why two posts asking exact same question??

Here's how you get a matching trans... You call the salvage yard, you tell them you need a trans for a 06.5 mkV jetta with HFU.

Almost no chance of a 2013 matching a 06.5


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

CoolAirVw said:


> Almost no chance of a 2013 matching a 06.5


I'd do a little research before ruling that out...


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Of course...

2013 is so new there wont be much info on the web.


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## yeamonn (Apr 2, 2014)

CoolAirVw said:


> Why two posts asking exact same question??
> 
> Here's how you get a matching trans... You call the salvage yard, you tell them you need a trans for a 06.5 mkV jetta with HFU.
> 
> Almost no chance of a 2013 matching a 06.5


It's gotten me a variety of answers and insight. I don't mean to be spamming but obviously it's a big decision to be making and I want to be educated. What I don't understand is how sellers on eBay or online would guarantee money back and promise a part will fit if it really won't. This ebay seller has a 2012 transmission he is claiming matches a 2006 HFU, HRM but I can't trust it I guess as the thoughts on here are basically "fat chance" 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUTOMATIC-T...Parts_Accessories&hash=item4870e6d280&vxp=mtr


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

Here's a little info from a quick websearch, I think it would work - 

http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/products/Volkswagen-VW/Jetta-Variant/6-speed-automatic-transmission--6-SPEED-AUTO-TRANS-AG6/5163212/09G300034B.html

I'm pretty sure that the 6-speed auto used on the mkVI Golf and Jetta is the same as the mkV and, if so, you could potentially upgrade to a much newer transmission. I would think all 09Gs used on the 2.5 are pretty much the same. A VW dealer or parts department may be able to help; Bentley manuals also list the codes and info for the trans. Would also want to make sure the electronics are compatible.


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## 09g (Oct 14, 2014)

If I purchase a VB from ReamMan, would I be able to find a garage to do the swap? I took my car to the mechanic and he's suggesting an entire swap on the tranny. Quoted me around $3700 for swapping a used tranny with 50K on it. He guessed it would last another 100,000.. but he didn't seem very confident. I went to a transmission shop and he quoted me $1600 for the VB swap.. $1000 of that for VB. 

As far as my symptoms, everything that has been mentioned in this thread. Runs like gold for the first 10-20 minutes before I get a hard thump whenever it goes from first to second gear. Lately my RPM has been shooting up whenever it goes into 6th gear. If I get too many red lights or stop signs (constant thumping), it loses acceleration and I have to pull over. (it will get stuck on 3rd gear and the P R N D S will light up)


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

With those systems, i would suspect the valvebody. The price you got for the valvebody swap is about what it goes for. Im doing one now on an 04 beetle. I like resetting shift adapts after the new body is in.


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

MRyno said:


> First off, this thread is by far the best on the 09G issues I have ever seen. Thank you to everyone who has contributed thus far. An extra special thank you to Brad for sharing the wealth of knowledge!
> 
> I am in a similar boat as has been described. Hard shifting on most shifts between all gears after heating up. Also noticing some lag in engaging between shifts on occasion where the engine revs and then goes in to gear. Had tranny serviced by a local shop that specializes in VW. No codes coming up. No shop can provide a difinitive answer (understandably) as to whether it is VB or transmission. The shop that did the service before did not see signs of abnormally high wear/tear and no shavings in the pan or filter.
> 
> ...


Hi MRyno,

I have the same car like you and I experience the 1st to 2nd gear bump and 2nd to 3rd is starting to feel the bump too but not as bad as 1 to 2. My car has 89k miles and purchased used. I wonder if I take it to dealer, it would still be under warranty for the valvebody. Do you happen to know? Thanks in advance.


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

bjohns86 said:


> Well, that is a fine approach, I guess, but I would find it easier to remove the one or two transmission fuses in the left side of the dash, but if you want to dig for the TCM, it's all good. If you remove the fuses for say 15 minutes and replace them then drive the car you will be doing a forced adaptive relearn without scanner. The posting you mentioned seems erroneous as the shift solenoids control shifting and if you disconnect the TCM there should be no upshifts and if they do occur they will presumably be harsh. Sooner or later you are just going to have to punt and do something. I am skeptical that these shoot from the hip tests will point to anything conclusively. If I were you I would reset the adaptive shift anyway you so choose and drive it for a few days. The shifts may be harsh and erratic and unusual at first but they should get better as the TCM determines shift data from input/output shaft data. I know you just want a cut and dry conclusion to your problem, like most folks on forums, but unfortunately several things can cause your symptoms and it may come down to a gamble.


Hi bjohns86,
You mentioned that you can reset the adaptive relearn by removing the two transmission fuses. Can you please elaborate this process? Do I need to turn on the engine after I remove the two fuses? I am having this slight bump too for 1-2 gear and 2-3 as well but not as bad. Would like to reset the adeptive relearn. I had changed the tranny fluid once at 80k miles and also the tranny filter. All fluid uses VW OEM parts.


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## thy_noahs_ark (Oct 21, 2014)

Big help seeing this forum. A little backstory, my 2007 VW Jetta 2.5l starting with a slight slide bumb right after warranty had ended on the valve body at about 100,000 miles on the odometer. Drove for another 40,000 miles when finally got really bad. It started harsh upshifting and downshifting through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gears. Decided to finally fix it. So I ordered valve body from ream man valve bodies for about $700 with tax and 5 quarts of Dexron VI, which is a lot more affordable and same specs of the vw trans fluid as stated by bjohns86. Used detailed instructions posted by tupa123. Make sure to mark connections and take picture of solenoids. Then proceeded by following fantomasz posted video on how to refill transmission from the top without using any special tools. All and all took me about 4 hours with help from buddy. I have been driving the car 3 months now, putting on 3500 miles of smooth shifting and zero problems. 
Thanks to the users mentioned above and to the almighty internet for being the ultimate resource.


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

Hi there, since you recently replaced your VB and after you reset your adaptation, did you have to follow VBexpress instruction or did you just drive normally?


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

09g said:


> ...Quoted me around $3700 for swapping a used tranny with 50K on it. He guessed it would last another 100,000.. but he didn't seem very confident. ...


A used transmission with 50k on it, might last to 150,000 miles ... but equally, many many people had their valve bodies fail before 100,000 miles (hence VW extending the valve body warranty to 100,000 miles). I would not spend my money on a used transmission that still has the original valve body.

If I were you, my approach would be:

1) $700 - 1000 for a reconditioned valve body (VW with a coupon works out to $900 + tax). Install that on your transmission (as others have said, following forum guides, it's 4 - 8 hours max).
2) If your transmission is damaged from the harsh shifting you've had with the bad valve body, then I'd fit a used transmission (like the 50,000 mile one), BUT with a reconditioned valve body too. Otherwise you might be in the same place in 30,000 miles.

My car started rough shifting around 125,000 miles. Dealer said 'no warranty, as only lasts to 100,000 miles, will be $2400 for a reconditioned valve body to be installed', they also said 'lifetime fluid, never needs changing, it can't be changed', transmission shop said 'no point changing valve body, needs full rebuild for $4500 - $5000'. So at 140,000 (i.e. 15,000 miles of harsh shifting), I bought VW reconditioned VB for $900 + Valvoline fluid and ECS filter/gasket kit, and did the change. 6,000 miles later, it's still running fine, and should get me to my goal of 200,000 miles for the car.


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## ralc (Oct 26, 2014)

I am overseas and I currently own a 2007 VW Jetta. I imported from the US and looks like the previous owners didn`t do any maintenance on the transmission. At the point where all the gears were highlighted while driving. so instead of just D highlighted had P R N D S all highlighted and if I switch to tiptronic, it wouldn`t show 1 2 3 4 5 6. The mechanic advised I had to replace one solenoid, the problem didn`t get resolved so I had to buy a new transmission repair kit. All these repairs were made in Honduras (Central America).The car is working fine but it seems like the gearbox is a little bit lazy meaning that when I press on the gas it doesn`t look like a 2.5L, it is slow and the check engine light is on. I currently live in El Salvador so I took the car to a recommended mechanic and he noticed that the wiring harness had oil on it and that the pressure oil is not sufficient on first gear that`s why when you press the gas it seems lazy/slow. He said that he found that the wiring harness had a defficiency on this specific model so he wants me to replace that part and change the tranny oil and then see if the problem goes away. Now, at the beginning of the year the tranny oil was changed and I do not know if his recommendation is wise. I would like to know and I will greatly appreciate if you can give me your feedback. Honestly I am tired of spending a lot of money, I imported this car in june 2012 and I had only driven about 6,000 miles since then, because most of the time it has been in the shop.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Pay close attention to the fluid you're buying for your 09G. 

Newer, gen. 2 09G transmissions in 2010+ vehicles use a different fluid than the older 2005.5-2009 units. 
The gen 2 09G uses OE fluid part # G 055 540 A2. There is no aftermarket equivalent to this fluid available Stateside; dealer only.

This new ATF is dubbed "WS" and has a lower start-up visocity, something like 9,000 [email protected] versus 19,000 [email protected] found in T-IV/JWS3309 fluid.
Other characteristics of the fluid like oxidation stability and after-shear viscosity are also improved over the old T-IV/JWS3009 standard.

If you're not sure what your car was filled with from the factory, call your dealer and they can verify using your VIN.


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

gsferraro said:


> Hello,
> If the trans works ok when cold and acts up when hot, that points to the valvebody.
> If your looking to change the trans with a low mileage one, find one that is close to the year of your car, get the vin number off the car, call a v/w dealer, give them both vin numbers and that will tell you if the trans will work. Gary


Hey Gary,

Thanks for the reply, which I thought would be the problem. What you are saying is exactly what happens, so do I need the replace the entire VB or can I get away with buying a new set of solenoids? I read somewhere that new solenoids might not do the trick due to spacing over time. I am ready to purchase whatever is needed, but like to know some reputable places.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

I would purchase the whole valvebody, the solenoids are a problem and so is bore wear, i always purchase frm the dealer, i believe they offer new and rebuilt, i dont think theres much differance in price(maybe a few hundred)so i always go new. Gary


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## alwaysdutch (Oct 19, 2011)

gsferraro said:


> I would purchase the whole valvebody, the solenoids are a problem and so is bore wear, i always purchase frm the dealer, i believe they offer new and rebuilt, i dont think theres much differance in price(maybe a few hundred)so i always go new. Gary


Well, my VW has 207K miles on it and I might keep it one more year. I can only imagine how much a new VB cost from the dealer, as they are trying to seel it as gold, at least here in ATL......That is why I was looking for alternatives


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

I would call to price it out. Other places, Valvebody pro in california, theres valvebody express in NJ, but im not sure if they sell on the outside, may only sell to distributors you would have to call them. Gary


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

*Has anyone used the Sonnax valve test kit?*

The Sonnax valve test kit provides a way to test individual valves and troubleshoot to isolate and find exactly what valves have failed - if any at all. You use it with your own 3cfm vacuum pump. But its between $200 - $300 depending on where you look. Has anyone had any experience with this? Can you recommend a less expensive place to buy? Know of any better alternatives? Thanks


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

I use it, i bought mine from my transtar rep for 200. I recently used it to help me diagnose a problem on a ford, i was leaning toward buying another valvebody, but instead i bought the vacuum test stand as a recommendation from a friend that works for sonnax, it took me all of 10 minutes to test this valvebody and it was good. Also if you go to the sonnax website, they have highlited the problem areas of certain valvebodys to check with the vacuum test stand. Gary


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

*to buy the VB test stand or not ..*

Thanks Gary. 

I read through their site & watched the 3 vids, and looked through the test sheets for the 09g. It made a lot of sense to me. However, the calculus that I am going through is that when I add up the cost of the tool, plus the cost of the appropriate kits, then add in a vacuum pump (which found one for $60), I am within $200 of a rebuilt VB. I don't know if I would use it again. If I could get one - maybe a used one, for $100, then I would feel better about buying it. If I were doing 2 repairs, I would definitely get the VB test stand. But, as you say, its a pretty generic tool. BTW, Sonnax has done a great job of simplifying the technique and making it easy.

Also, do you happen to know if the VB remanufacturers update each valve, or just those that fail the vacuum test? Thanks


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Question, When you drive this car, does it work ok when cold and start to slip and bang when hot? gary
As far as what they do to the valvebodies when rebuilding them im not really sure.


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

Gary - 

No. My car is a 2006 2.5L 09G Jetta that I bought with 77k miles that I bought from a use dealer in Marietta GA at Christmas for my son - who gets his license next week. The car ran beautifully when I tested it, and the tranny shifted perfectly both under soft and hard acceleration. My son was driving it with my wife just after new year's day and there was a really big rock in the road and he ran over it gashing the tranny pan. They were only about a mile from home and they came home - the car still ran fine. It bled all over my driveway so I don't think that it ever ran empty. We ordered a new pan and the tranny oil & filter kit from Blauparts. 

The old pan had a bit of junk in and around the magnet. In fact, it only had one magnet. I bought two super-powerful magnets the same size as the original and put them in the new pan, and replaced the filter & tranny oil. I also inspected the old filter for impact, and the valve body, but it didn't look like they had any physical damage. 

Once the oil level was verified and everything buttoned up, we test drove it. Lots of hard 2-3 bumps. 

Over the course of the next 2-3 weeks, I noticed that when I drove it in the morning (cold) that the 2-3 bump was hard, and that after about a mile or so when we finally hit 5 or went from 5 to 6, that we would get a flare-up and the tranny would to into limp mode with the PRNDS lights fully illuminated. We were getting 17119/P0735 scan codes. Sometimes, we could turn the engine off for a few minutes, then restart it, and it would start out in 1st again. But eventually it would go into limp mode on a 5th gear flare. I found that if I removed the battery terminal for 10 secs then replaced it, that the limp mode would clear. I could then clear the scan error code and the car would run perfectly the rest of the day. Perfect shifts, no flares. But the next morning, the entire sequence would repeat, and clear again once we reset the battery terminal.

This week, the car had been sitting the entire week, and I took it out yesterday. I ran like crap with 2-3 bumps and flares in 4th & 5th, and eventually going into limp. I tried to reset the battery but the effect was short lived. 

I went home and read the transmission computer relearn procedure posted on the Sunbelt Valve Body site (below). I tried that followed by 20 acceleration sequences going from stop through 6th and about 50-60 mph. Each run seemed to improve shifting.
http://www.sunbeltvalvebodies.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/pdf-150x150.png

I decided to drive the car to work this week to monitor it. Its about 10 miles going through about 8 sets of lights, and max speed of 50 mph a few times. It ran beautifully but did start getting a few slight 2-3 bumps near the end.

So I have never been convinced that I had a physical problem so much as a control problem. Certainly when the transmission misbehaves it does so in a way that matches the complaints & symptoms of the valve body. Except, that it actually seemed to improve with temperature.

I paid the $28 fee to JustAsk.com and a tech knowledgeable on the 09G gave some suggestions, but ultimately just said "replace the valve body". Maybe he is right.

I called my local VW dealer and the tech said that given the codes - 17119/P0735, that he wouldn't mess with it and recommended just replacing the entire transmission. Seemed a little obstinate to me, but maybe he is right. Maybe there is a clutch problem; but I would think that couldn't be cleared with a reset.

I like the idea of the using the Sonnax vacuum test tool to identify the actual problem. But, I wonder if I would be better off just buying a new or referb VB. I am just not willing to pull the trigger until I better reconcile the control computer behavior to the valve body behavior.

Any ideas greatly appreciated.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

With the codes cleared, how does it work now in the mornings.
The reason why i ask is, you had said that the 2-3 bump would get better as the trans got warmer, this trans like most all adapt when hot above 130F. are you able to reset shift adapts with a scan tool. So the big question, does it still bump on the shift with no codes present when cold. Gary


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

*does it still bump on the shift with no codes present when cold?*

Gary - 

I would say no. 

For a while we were running exactly the same sequence:

First thing in the morning (about 30-deg F) start car. Drive 1/3-mile through neighborhood to get to main road - usually not leaving 3. Shifts OK.

Get on main road and drive about 1.5 miles hitting 3 lights, staying under 45mph. Staring to see harder 2-3 bumps. Next 2 miles get into 4-5 and see some slight flares. about about 4 miles road opens up and has slight hill. Going up hill get a big 5-flare and it goes into limp. Repeated 4 days and landed within 100-yards each time with limp mode. Showing 17119/P0735 scan code, with tran temp over 80-C. At this time we can pull battery for 60-secs and limp mode will be reset. Clear the scan code. Car runs fine for the rest of the day.

The situation seemed however, to improve each day until last week when it did not go into limp mode and ran great the entire weekend. Then we let it sit 1-week, and it ran like **** on Sunday as described above.

This morning, though, no codes, ran great with perfect 2-3, no 4-5 or 5-6 flares until I got almost to work (about 10 miles), when I noticed some slight 2-3 bumps.

I went for a lunch time drive today - about 15 miles. I ran very, very well until near the end when I got an unexpected flare ( I don't know if it was 1-2 or 2-3). But other than that, ran really well.


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

*are you able to reset shift adapts with a scan tool?*

No. I am not sure how to do that with my ES680.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

It certainly sounds like a valvebody problem, a tell tale sign is, it works ok when cold but not when hot. What are your intensions with this car? I have had about 8 of theses units in my shop and was able to repair everyone with a valvebody, but i always say to my customer that we will try this first(most of the time it works because of the way the car drives) but if not you would need a full rebuild. As long as this car does not act up when cold, i would try a valvebody, is this something you would try to fix on your own? Gary


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

My wife's Jetta has been having the harsh bump shifts for about a month now. Runs perfect when cold but once it warms up starts shifting rough between 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 and sometimes between 4-5. I haven't noticed any rough downshifts yet. The rough shifts do occur less often when in sport mode. I think I read in this thread that's due to increased pressure that sport mode provides? 

Anyway my real question is can anyone tell me if 09g325039ax is the part number with the switches or without? I called the dealer and confirmed with my VIN that part number but he wasn't sure about the pressure switches. Based on the procedure described earlier in the thread I should be able to tackle this myself. I just want to make sure I order the correct VB.


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

Thanks Gary. Your experience is really appreciated.

I am comfortable with changing the valve body. 

Do you recommend new or refurb? Did VW/Aisin finally redesign the VB to correct the problem? 

I have seen several refurb shops:

Sunbelt Valve Body - $799
RevMax - $659
Valve Body Builders - ????
Valve Body Express - ????
ReamMan - $679
???

You said that you have done several VB replacements successfully. Whose VB did you use? Any recommendations? Thanks


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Hello,
If your ordering the valvebody with your vin number you should get the correct one. I have a shop in new york, ive done about 8 of these and always ordered the valvebody through the vin number. If your going to tackle this yourself watch the way the wires are routed. Gary


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

JoeBriggs said:


> Thanks Gary. Your experience is really appreciated.
> 
> I am comfortable with changing the valve body.
> 
> ...


I called Valve Body Express this morning and they were $891 plus a $400 core charge. Just so you know the price difference. I think I'm going to grab the ReamMan vb once I get my tax return.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

gsferraro said:


> Hello,
> If your ordering the valvebody with your vin number you should get the correct one. I have a shop in new york, ive done about 8 of these and always ordered the valvebody through the vin number. If your going to tackle this yourself watch the way the wires are routed. Gary


Thanks for the info. Are there any special tools required other than the fluid fill tool and VCDS to measure the temperature. There was a good document someone posted on page 3 or 4 of this thread that showed all the wiring and what bolts to take out. I plan to use that as well as lots of pictures to make sure I get it right. Thanks!


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

I get mine from the dealer, who offer new and reman, the difference is only a few hundred dollars so i always went new. I never had much luck with valvebody express, but the company was just sold to sonnax and im sure its going to be much better valvebody wise. Gary


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

Gary - 

Did VW/Aisin make any changes in their design to fix the VB issues? If you get a new one, will you still be at risk of the same problem 50 - 80k miles later?

Also, does anyone know if the refab outfits replace all of the solenoids and apply all Sonnax valve fixes, or only fix what fails the vacuum testing? Thanks


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

I would say these companys that rebuild the valvebodies also rebuild the solenoids, they take them apart and install new bushings. The 09G transmissions got a "facelift" starting with 2014, if the changes retro back to early models im not sure. Gary


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

Thanks Frosty for the info!

I left a message with ReamMan to ask if they change out all of the solenoids & apply all Sonnax fixes, or only on those tested faulty, and I have not heard back yet. Any idea?


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

It would be to expensive to change all the solenoids, so they probably rebuild them which should be ok. Gary


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

*Awesome Sunbelt Valve Bodies support*

I had sent emails to a few valve body rebuilders including Sunbelt about the details of their rebuilds. I got a message back from Josh Greene @ Sunbelt today stating:

"You’d be surprised as to how many transmission mechanics improperly diagnose the problem to begin with thinking that a VB will solve the problem. That is not always the case."

That, I thought was both intriguing and responsible. They were not just out to sell me a valve body, but to help me get my car fixed. Next, he called me on the phone and spoke with me about the model, symptoms, likely issues, etc. He was really on top of that transmission, and his advice was far, far better than I got from the VW dealership, or the JustAnswer guys. 

He was the first to really seem to connect my particular experience of my issues clearing by disconnecting my battery terminal for 10 secs. He also gave me advice to isolate my 17119/P0735 error as either valve body or speed sensor by testing with the tiptronic. He also gave me the option of yanking my VB out and sending it down, and he would put it on the bench and analyze it for $90, then call me back with a recommendation. Also, the $90 would go toward a VB rebuild if that was the outcome. 

I really appreciated the time, expertise, and honesty, and will take them up on the offer. 

If you want to discuss your 09G issue, go to their website, click on 'contact', fill out the form, and select "technical" on the pulldown. Just answer all of the questions that you can. 

Good luck.

https://www.sunbeltvalvebodies.com/


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Sounds like a good deal, let me know how it goes and what the problem is. Thanks Gary


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

JoeBriggs said:


> Thanks Frosty for the info!
> 
> I left a message with ReamMan to ask if they change out all of the solenoids & apply all Sonnax fixes, or only on those tested faulty, and I have not heard back yet. Any idea?


Yeah, I called and spoke with Marty I believe at ReamMan. I didn't tell him the make or model of the car and the first words out of his mouth after I explained what was happening: "You have a Jetta don't you?" They are part of the Sonnax task force so they have all the updates components on their valve bodies. Their price was $680 and if you "maintain communication" with them on the install they won't charge you a $200 core fee. Typically it's two weeks from ship date that you have to return the faulty valve body. He said they call to confirm progress before they charge you if it gets to that point. He also mentioned that if you specify on your order you want install instructions they print out the service manual portion for the removal and install and will include it with the VB. 

I didn't ask about sending the existing VB in to them. That's interesting about the testing that SunBelt does. Something to keep in mind.


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

Gary - I will and thanks for all of your experienced help. 

That Ream Man comment was funny. I really like their willingness to engage and stay engaged with the customer to ensure the success of the product. That says a lot for them.

I asked the Sunbelt guy if VW/Aisin ever fixed the valve body problem. He said that they did not. He said that the underlying issue was that the valve body material is too soft, and the valves wear into it as they cycle, causing leaks between the chambers that the valve separates. The Sonnax upgrades are to ream the VB ports out, and install valve guides that are harder than the valve. It would seem to me that the only way to guarantee 100,000+ miles out of the VB would be to proactively apply the upgrades to each valve body, but I think the typical rebuild is to test each one and only do those that are out of spec. 

An interesting thing the Sunbelt guy mentioned was that he goes throughout the country & South America giving training seminars to transmission repair techs. He said that he was in Costa Rica a while back and over 1000 techs attended. Also big turnout in Ecuador. He said they were really showing a lot of interest and a desire to learn. But the seminars in the US he gives rarely get more than 50 or so sign up. He said that the dealers & shop owners don't really invest in training their techs, and, that most US techs don't show a lot of interest. I don't know how to evaluate what he said other than when I was in high school, we had a really good auto shop and I took it for 2 years and learned a ton. Public schools don't really have auto, metal, or wood shop any more because it costs so much. But kids also don't seem to have the interest in the trades either (maybe as a result). Anyway, its a bad sign. Maybe it points to why the VW dealorships just say "change the transmission" instead of diagnosing the problem to the failed part and fixing it. Its interesting.


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

JoeBriggs said:


> I had sent emails to a few valve body rebuilders including Sunbelt about the details of their rebuilds. I got a message back from Josh Greene @ Sunbelt today stating:
> 
> "You’d be surprised as to how many transmission mechanics improperly diagnose the problem to begin with thinking that a VB will solve the problem. That is not always the case."
> 
> ...



Hi Joe,

Yes, I also feel like Sunbelt VB has the best customer service and very willing to help you out every step of the way. Also price wise, it seems to me Sunbelt is the cheapest. I was quoted for $725 ($100 core charge included and refundable upon return) and a little bit less if I were to send my original VB and they will fix it in a day or two and return it back to me. Valvebody Express quoted me $892 + $400 core. I am really kinda torn which one to go but looking at Sunbelt customer service, looks like it is far superior. And my other dilemma is that removing the valve body. I have never done it before although I have replaced a tranny filter before inside the pan so I am guessing this is just another few more steps. My only concern is removing those little cable sockets and also the tranny cooler. And my other dilemma is filling the atf fluid back on this car. I heard you may need a vag com to measure the temperature but I wonder if a laser thermometer will do the trick as I have read some people use that with success. If you have done your VB change, please share your advice and recommendation on this procedure. Thanks!


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

deluxman said:


> . I heard you may need a vag com to measure the temperature but I wonder if a laser thermometer will do the trick as I have read some people use that with success. If you have done your VB change, please share your advice and recommendation on this procedure. Thanks!


I used an infrared thermometer, with measurements across the pan, to check the level when refilling mine. Worked great. :thumbup:


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

mhjett said:


> I used an infrared thermometer, with measurements across the pan, to check the level when refilling mine. Worked great. :thumbup:


So how do you do that? Do you wait until the thermostat is normal, then you open the drain plug, then measure the temperature of the excess fluid? Or do you point the infrared to the oil pan?


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

I am really torn as to which VB seller to purchase from. Price wise, looks like Reamman & Sunbelt are the lowest. What do you guys think or who have purchased from any of these two sellers?? Again your advice and inputs are greatly appreciated as I am really new to this VB repair thing.


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

deluxman - You should go onto the Sunbelt website on the contact page and select 'technical' on the pulldown. Plug in all the details of your trany & problems and they will get back to you. They say that that they are trying to make sure that the real problem actually is the valve body instead of something else like a correct TCU reset & relearn. That's money in the bank as far as I am concerned.

My personal understanding of the underlying 09G problem (Gary, please correct me) is that the valve body itself is made of a material slightly softer than the valve spools that operate within it.. So the valves that modulate back-and-forth to maintain pressure (constantly in motion) wear against the body and the resultant worn material particles, if not caught by the filter or magnet, ultimately acts as an aggregate between the valve spool & body and exacerbates the wear. As the wear continues, the valve is no longer able to maintain a pressure differential across the chambers that it separates, and the correct pressures are no longer sent to the clutch, etc., leading to hard shifts and flares. 

Changing the fluid every 40k vs. never might delay this wear by eliminating the crap from the fluid. The Sonnax fixes bore out the passages in the valve bodies where the valve stems go and replace them with upsized valves or sleeves or guides. Maybe a better filter is part of the long term fix. A more robust design would be the use of replaceable wear bushings or sleeves, instead of the body itself acting as the wear agent. But, that would only reduce the fix to yanking the valve body and replacing the sleeves, because eventually they would still wear. 

If you look on the Sonnax site, they have a 'kit' for almost every valve. But the rebuilders don't fix a valve unless it is out of spec. So they put the valve body on their bench tester which puts every valve under pressure and they look to ensure that the valve is functioning correctly and that it can maintain the specified pressure across it. If it can't, its marked for repair with the appropriate Sonnax kit. If you look at the Sonnax valve test kit, it is just a home-shop way of isolating the failed valve without the expense of the big bench tester the big shops have.

I have also seen that there is an upgrade to the solenoid valve itself. Some rebuilders preemptively replace them all, or just the ones that fail the bench test. That might account for some of the price difference. 

My guess is that a lot of this problem could have been headed off with a changing and flushing the fluid every 40k or so to ensure that any particulate matter is completely removed, and a better filter design. 

In my particular situation, the problem has manifested itself as being completely consistent with the valve body stories. But, in my case, I could clear my symptoms on a warm car by resetting my TCU. That, to me, said that it was a control issue and not a mechanical issue. So going through a process of correctly resetting the TCU, followed by a thorough re-learning process and 1 week of consistent driving patterns, seems to have corrected my problem. I don't doubt, however, that I have only delayed repairing the valve body and will keep a close eye on it. But right now I am symptom free.


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

deluxman said:


> So how do you do that? Do you wait until the thermostat is normal, then you open the drain plug, then measure the temperature of the excess fluid? Or do you point the infrared to the oil pan?


VCDS (i.e. diagnostic connection to the car's computer) gives you actual trans fluid temp, and you're shooting for 40* +/- 5* C if I remember right. 

Using an infrared thermometer on the outside of the bottom of the trans fluid pan as a proxy for the actual fluid temp, I figured that the pan surface temp would slightly trail the actual fluid temp (especially given that the warmest fluid would rise). So I let the car run until the external temp on the bottom of the pan (I measured across the pan in an X-shape to "average" my readings) was just below spec, my thinking being that then at that time, the fluid inside was slightly warmer than my readings. With the engine running and the trans fluid at temp, you then screw the drain bolt back in. 

Worked great for me, and saved me the $300 of buying a VCDS scan tool.


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

My have a $79 E-Scan ES680 that reads the tran temp, reads/resets errors, etc. It Chinese and doc sucks, but 
To read tranny temp, 

Connect ES680 scanner
Select VAG diags
Select Power Train
Select Transmission (02)
Select Manual Control Block (08)

You are presented with a 3-digit number. Use the right-left to select the digit to edit, and up-down to increase/decrease value.
Set '006'
http://www.autophix.com/product_es680.html

I have a regular ODB2 bluetooth device used with my android phone, but can't figure out how to read tran temp from it, though I have heard of others who can.


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## clone1008 (Jul 13, 2007)

Very informative thread. I have a 2006 Passat 2.0T with the 09G transmission. I am having all of the same issues mentioned in this thread... Hard shifting between 1-2 2-3. The car has 119000 miles on it. If I leave the car in D it is almost impossible to drive... High rpms and slamming into gear, etc. I have found that I can drive it almost normal by putting it in manual shift mode and shifting it myself at around 3000 rpm for each gear. I have a Vag Com and there are no codes. I took it to my local AAMCO yesterday and they were not much help even though I told them about the valve body issues on this transmission. The only thing the tech mentioned was that the fluid was slightly burnt and a total rebuild was needed. Any thoughts from you guys?


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Hello,
Question, how does this car drive cold, does it shift ok? Gary(i have a trans shop in new york)


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## clone1008 (Jul 13, 2007)

gsferraro said:


> Hello,
> Question, how does this car drive cold, does it shift ok? Gary(i have a trans shop in new york)


The car drives pretty decent cold...maybe a slight hesitation from 1-2 but definitely not as bad.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

If this works ok cold and starts banging and slipping when hot, to me that is a classic sign of a bad valvebody. Gary


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## clone1008 (Jul 13, 2007)

gsferraro said:


> If this works ok cold and starts banging and slipping when hot, to me that is a classic sign of a bad valvebody. Gary


Should I be worried about the "master tech" at AAMCO saying the fluid was slightly burnt or would this be a scare tactic?


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

The fluid may be dark to begin with, ive done about a dozen of these the fluid was dark in all of them, if it doesnt smell burnt, you should be ok. Gary


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

clone1008 said:


> Should I be worried about the "master tech" at AAMCO saying the fluid was slightly burnt or would this be a scare tactic?


You had me at "master tech" at AAMCO... 

:laugh:


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

clone1008 said:


> Should I be worried about the "master tech" at AAMCO saying the fluid was slightly burnt or would this be a scare tactic?


They told me $5000 rebuild too (even though I could buy a VW recon tranny for $4k at the dealer). 

Your issues sound the same as all the other 09G's. I'd sooner spend $1000 on a VB swap than recon a tranny for $5k in a car with 120,000 miles on it. Your call though really


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

SNS1938 said:


> They told me $5000 rebuild too (even though I could buy a VW recon tranny for $4k at the dealer).
> 
> Your issues sound the same as all the other 09G's. I'd sooner spend $1000 on a VB swap than recon a tranny for $5k in a car with 120,000 miles on it. Your call though really


This where im at right, 122K on the car, classic VB symptoms. But i bought the car last week with out knowing it has this issue so now i also have to think how long did this go on for and are any of the clutches burned up. But the car drives like a dream when cold. Hot its un-driveable. Also weighing the pros an cons of having it done or doing it my self.


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## KR3W (Apr 28, 2012)

Hi everybody. I have a 2007 Volkswagen rabbit with 99,000KM. I just bought it 2 months ago and soon after buying it, I noticed some rough 5-4 downshifting. Sometimes it's felt as a little "shutter" but most times it's a huge bang that scares the crap out of me every time. There is also a small amount of slipping (needle never goes above 1-2k rpm) in most of the lower gears. The harsh downshifts and slipping only happen when the engine is up to temperature. It also doesn't do it every single time. I can avoid it by downshifting early from 5-4 in tiptronic mode. If I'm just slowing down normally, it will "bang" 7/10 times. If I'm slamming on the brakes or coming to a semi-abrupt stop, it usually won't happen. 

I went to a transmission shop who does trans work for a nearby Volkswagen dealership and they told me, as expected, that it was a bad valve body. They told me they could either replace the whole valve body for around $1800, or, and I'm paraphrasing here, "if we remove the valve body and notice that the valves are still okay, we'll just replace the solenoids". He said that the valves don't usually go bad until the 180,000km mark. He quoted me around $800 for this option. 

The $800 option is looking a whole lot better to me but I can't tell if he's just blowing smoke up my ass with the whole solenoid thing. What do you guys think? 

Thanks for reading!


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

Im calling a local dude who rebuilds the VB right now, its looking around $650 for the part and i think im just going to do it my self.


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

I picked one up from VW, $841 before tax


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## JustSteve (Mar 17, 2015)

*What about a total trans swap?*

Has anyone considered a tranny swap to a more reliable unit? Another manufacturer? I've seen a thread somewhere on a swap to a manual unit for a diesel, but what about an auto swap? Wouldn't be easy, I'm sure. But perhaps worth the effort.


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

Side note, has anyone done the VB swap and still had issues? If so what issues did you have before you did the swap


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Marsplex,
Everything go ok? just wondering, what local guy rebuilds the valvebodies? Gary


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

gsferraro said:


> Marsplex,
> Everything go ok? just wondering, what local guy rebuilds the valvebodies? Gary


After i spoke to you and few other dudes i went and did some serious research. In the past i have have done filters and drain and fills on a few cars, including an A4 and a Passat. I read the DIY and looked at the guide showing how to do the swap. Its something i can absolutely do my self.

The local guy turned out to be a middle man or sorts who in fact was just getting it from some place else. Then i said to my self, f-it ill just go the VW route. So I went and ordered the VB from my local VW dealer (something smart you advised on the phone, just getting it from them), i should have it later today, then im going to swap it in my self and hope for the best. I was able to get a decent discount at the dealership, came to $840 for the part (list was close to $1100), i sourced the filter, gasket and Febi fluid for $100 more, then im going to get a second set of jack stands. So after all is said and done im looking at about $1K. 

In the long run ill need the money i saved because i feel if i keep this car ill need to get the timing chain guides and or the chain it self done at some point.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Marsplex, sounds good, when the pan comes down, there are a few wiring harness, watch how they are routed. After its done let the fluid heat up to about 140f then drive the car and it should adapt(it wont adapt when the car is cold). Gary


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

taking out the old VB the accumulator piston and spring came out but i did not see what way it goes back in, spring in first or piston!


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

spring in first then piston, so the piston will sit on the valvebody. Gary


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

gsferraro said:


> spring in first then piston, so the piston will sit on the valvebody. Gary


First off, Gary you have been a huge help to me. Thanks again.

Now the situation, 5qt went in, trany seemed to heat up fast, peaked at 87C that seems way too hot, i have a slight flair in the 4th a tiny bit in to 3rd but everything else seems fine. I think did something wrong tho. before any of this the car shifted fine when cold. No flair. I hope there is not more damage or i just hope im waiting on shift adaptation with the new VB? 

87C temp seems way too hot.


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

Ok, i drove 25 miles in mixed highway and stop and go, all the previous issues ARE GONE! Over the stopping and going the new 4th flair has started to firm up, some times its gone others its slight. Unfortunately i used Valvoline maxlife ATF, that meets the 09G spec but its not the best. After the snow storm we are going to have 5-8" supposedly here on Long Island, ill swap in a second new filter and Febi ATF. In that time ill drive it as much as i can and report back. Trans got no hotter than 87C. A guess a new test will be tomorrow when the car is ice cold.

Edit: 3rd to 4th flair came back slightly after car sat for 2hrs.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Let me know how it goes, as far as you know you have no codes in the system(that would keep the trans from fully adapting). Gary


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

gsferraro said:


> Let me know how it goes, as far as you know you have no codes in the system(that would keep the trans from fully adapting). Gary


Using this program with my Bluetooth scanner, no as far as i know.

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.bluetooth.vagerasedtcall&hl=en


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

Im at my wits end with this BS... So now on a cold start the new shift flair that was from 3-4 is a massive flair 2-3, so to recap. Before the VB swap the car was fine, till hot. NOW with the new VB from VW its a massive flair from 2-3 then 100% fine when hot. I have put 110 miles on the car over the past 24hrs.

Does anyone know if this is an adaptation issue? Mechanical fail? Me f-ing something up? This car has been a nightmare. I have only had it for 2 weeks. It was fine on the 20 min test drive then on the way home hell. $4000 down the drain. Then the $1K for this VB that created new issues.


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

I think im going to tap out. As soon as the title comes i hope to get $3500 for the car.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Let see how it goes after the snow, keep in mind you may have a defective valvebody, never been a fan of rebuilt. The dealer we use(sunrise v/w) offers them new and rebuilt, i quoted a price a few weeks ago, had the manager call and i think around 850 rebuilt or 1100 new. Gary


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

Ill keep you posted. If the VB is defective i wounder what the situation will be with sending it back to VW in exchange for a new one.


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

I know im talking to my self now, but im seriously starting to think this new from VW re-manufactured VB might be some how defective. Today it went in to limp mode with the code p2725 "Pressure control solenoid E" And thats it, i cant clear it and i cant reset it. If i do the car goes in to 1st for half a second and thats it. Nothing can be done.


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

Ok so VW gave me a second VB, swapped it in, THE CAR IS FIXED!


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Good deal


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

*Same Here*

I test drove a 2007 VW Jetta 120K, paying close attention to the shift everything was fine so I bought the car. After driving the car about 10 miles it started slipping and bumping. I called the person back that sold it to me, two real-estate agents out of Destin, FL. Long story short, $5k later I have a car that you can't drive after 10 miles or so. I'm thinking the VB is the way to go for sure.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

If it drives good cold and screws up hot, i would say v/b issue


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

Got Screwed VW Style said:


> I test drove a 2007 VW Jetta 120K, paying close attention to the shift everything was fine so I bought the car. After driving the car about 10 miles it started slipping and bumping. I called the person back that sold it to me, two real-estate agents out of Destin, FL. Long story short, $5k later I have a car that you can't drive after 10 miles or so. I'm thinking the VB is the way to go for sure.


Buddy this exactly my story. Mine is the car in this picture, not 15 min from the home i bought it from same deal. Valve body. (ran fine when cold, issues when hot) In NY there is no recourse. All private sales are as-is and im fine with that, its actually my mistake. But after a saga of dramas i fixed it my self. Cost me around $1K but now the car is all good. 123K miles. Total cost, car $3800 (cheap i know but now i know why), VB with related bits and tranny fluid, around $1K I put the cars total cost now at $5K


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

MarsPlex said:


> Buddy this exactly my story. Mine is the car in this picture, not 15 min from the home i bought it from same deal. Valve body. (ran fine when cold, issues when hot) In NY there is no recourse. All private sales are as-is and im fine with that, its actually my mistake. But after a saga of dramas i fixed it my self. Cost me around $1K but now the car is all good. 123K miles. Total cost, car $3800 (cheap i know but now i know why), VB with related bits and tranny fluid, around $1K I put the cars total cost now at $5K.
> 
> 
> I'm glad that it worked out for you, having only 5K invested is not a bad deal. It really sucks that people aren't upfront. I've got 5K in mine already . Florida is a "Buyer Beware" state as well, there isn't anything that can be done. I'm thinking that I just turn the wrench myself and save the $$$. As soon as its running like it should be I'm going to sell it.
> ...


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

This post is what i went by, sure its a beetle but its same tranny, the dude there has pictures and a link to a shop manual too.

http://newbeetle.org/forums/transmi...ilt-valve-body-replacement-my-experience.html


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

this link also helped alot, http://newbeetle.org/forums/attachm...-experience-6-speed-automatic-gearbox-09g.pdf Its a PDF about the 09G


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

ITs not that hard of a job at all, your down in Florida, so at least its nice out. I did this here on Long Island, still in the 30's when i did this, with blowing winds and snow and ice still on the ground. I did it in my driveway on my back. The wind was blowing so bad i was frozen. Its supposed to snow 4" this weekend, its freaking almost April and even more snow for Easter!!!!!??!


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks for the links. I went through all of the info and I fairly confident that I can manage it, I'm no stranger under the hood. Opening a transmission always makes me nervous. There is a guy in Fort Walton willing to hook it up to the software at no charge. Once I'm 100% it's the VB I'll tackle it. 

Any suggestions on where to buy the VB? 

How fast was the response from Blauparts?


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

I got my VB from the local VW dealership. Cost a bit more and the first one they gave me was faulty but it was good to deal with some one local. They are only 2 miles from me. Took a day to get one in and they sold it too me for $840, in the end im happy i went with them because if anything goes wrong with it i can just go right to them. Came with 12 month or 12,000 mile warranty.

I got the filter and fluid from ECS tuning.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Jetta_V--2.5/Drivetrain/Automatic_Transmission/

They fluid you have to use can be tricky and expensive, but from what i have read online, some people use a Toyota type-IV fluid. Since i had issues with the first VB i wound up using a fluid that met the Toyota Type-IV fluid the second time around.

09G- 6-speed Automatic, uses JWS3309/T-IV fluid. (Aisin Warner box)

I was lucky because my tranny has a fill plug, some do and some dont. So when i was at the VW dealer i also picked up and new plug and cap. What sucks is the fill tube on mine broke and that was $58!!! for a plastic elbow that cant cost more than 15 cents to make.


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

$840 is a pretty sweet deal. I appreciate the information. 

This whole ordeal has been a little overwhelming, this blog has helped a great deal. 

I received a quote for $4300 to rebuild the tranny four days after I bought the car. 

I know the dealership here is going to rake me over the coals because it's a small area. 


If anyone has suggestions on the better of the four VB reubuilders..Sunbelt...Ream Man...Revmax...Sonnax

I would appreciate it. 

The $250 core charge from revmax is turning me off.


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

Got Screwed VW Style said:


> $840 is a pretty sweet deal. I appreciate the information.
> 
> This whole ordeal has been a little overwhelming, this blog has helped a great deal.
> 
> ...


I did VW for the VW too, as close by and no hassle shipping stuff back, especially if I got the wrong one. I paid around $900, as I had a 25% off coupon from the local dealers website.

I used Valvoline fluid from Walmart that is rated for the transmission, and $17 a gallon or so. It's rated for all the other brands that use the 'same' asin warner transmission, like toyotas.

ECS for filter and gasket.

Since I did the change, the cars only done 8,000 miles and 12 months, but it's perfect. Will replace fluid in the next few months, as I had a bottle left over.

As the fluid is so cheap, I actually replaced it 3 times when I did the switch to flush out as much of the old fluid in the torque converter. You only get to 1/2 of the fluid in a pan drop.

Best of luck with it, it's really only an extra complex oil change ... it's not like a cam belt or anything.


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## JoeBriggs (Jan 17, 2015)

*flairs*

Sounds to me like you need to do the full re-learn. Mine was just acting so crazy that it made no sense at all, so I did the full relearn The procedure is listed on this thread somewhere by one of the valve body remod companies to use the key and the gas pedal to reset the computer memory. You then need to start from stop and accelerate through 6th gear by just pushing the gas pedal down about 30% and keeping it there. Once you hit 6th, let off and come to a full stop within about 20-30 secs, then do it again about 20 times. After about the 10th time, each time will be better. I did that and my tranny has been perfect ever since.


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## MarsPlex (Jul 3, 2013)

All of the re-learn stuff talked about, at lest for me was best done with a real Ross-Tech cable. Sure it cost $250 but takes 10 seconds and done. Also i found the MaxLife tranny fluid to be problematic and switched over to Valvoline Import ATF, it seems to give me better shift response.

From the back of the bottle:


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I had the car in this week for a scan of any codes that may have been thrown. I was told that the rear wheel speed sensor had thrown a code at some point. I'm going to proceed with the valve body replacement and not worry too much about the reset at this point just wait and see after replacement.


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey guys, I thought I wanted to share my experience here. I had the shift shock issue from 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 3rd is starting to act up too. The car is at 92k miles and was undecided whether to get rebuild from VBX or valvebodypros or sunbelt. But after discussing with a few mechanics, decided to get VW brand new valve body. VW also sells the rebuild one for $90 cheaper but you have to go tru the hassle of sending your original back but according to local transmission guy that he prefers to buy brand new since those rebuild one, he has bad experience with them. 4 out of 5 do have issues according to him. So finally pulled the trigger replacing it with brand new VW VB. Labor cost me $350 and the VB is $920 plus tranny fluid, bolts, filter and gasket, all in all cost me around $1450. Now the car shifts really smooth, just like a new car. It is still re-learning tho...will see the next couple weeks to see if stays buttery smooth like this. The mechanic that did this for me did not recommend me using after market tranny fluid. He used to work for Audi dealer for 15 years and now he owns his own shop. So guys...if you have any question just hit me up and I will be willing to share with you any info I have.


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## waseem_abbasi (Apr 13, 2015)

*Should VB be replaced or just the solenoid valve?*

Should VB be replaced or just the solenoid valve?

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
Part No: 09G 927 750 AS
Component: AQ 250 6F 0649 
Coding: 0000008
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 020BADF05D4FE731784-8057

2 Faults Found:
00260 - Solenoid Valve 2 (N89) 
010 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01045 - Tiptronic Switch (F189) 
008 - Implausible Signal

Please help. i can not do it myself nor can afford to go to dealership.


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

waseem_abbasi said:


> Should VB be replaced or just the solenoid valve?
> 
> Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
> Part No: 09G 927 750 AS
> ...


Don't know for sure. But, from all my reading and personal experience, the 09G valve bodies wear, not solenoid failures as were common on the 09A 5 speed. I would sooner replace the VB with a $500 eBay one than spend time trying to do solenoids, but that's me, who is very time limited these days.


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

waseem,
Question, Does this car work ok when cold? does the car act up when hot? Was this car in failsafe?Gary(i have a trans shop in new york)


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## waseem_abbasi (Apr 13, 2015)

gsferraro said:


> waseem,
> Question, Does this car work ok when cold? does the car act up when hot? Was this car in failsafe?Gary(i have a trans shop in new york)



Yes when cold its fine, Even when hot it acts up only sometimes not always. I dont want to spend money. If i just change its solenoid valves, will it solve my problem?


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## JustSteve (Mar 17, 2015)

*What about a swap?*

Gary,
Since you own a trans shop, have you ever done or considered a swap of this terrible transmission for something more reliable? I recently did the TransGo shift kit on my 05 Beetle. Like most everyone on here, I bought it not knowing the issue. It drove well during the 10 minute test drive, then after getting it home the hard shifts started. I've got about $250 wrapped up in the issue now, between parts, fluid, tools and the shift kit. Not terribly hard to do and I noticed the difference right away. Now it drives as good as my other vehicles. But looking down the road, I expect the valve body will crap out and I want to pursue replacing this poorly engineered junk with something more maintenance friendly. Any ideas or thoughts?

Steve


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

Steve, 
Ive never considered swapping out this trans for something else, not sure if that can really be done now a days with the way the computers are. Honestly, ive worked on about a dozen of these but never had to overhaul one yet, on everyone the valvebody was the fix. The shift kit worked out good for you? I dont really use them, i dont feel that the kit address all the problems the valvebody has, I usually go new dealer part when i get one of these in. Gary


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## jtharmon (Apr 20, 2015)

*Transmission Fixed!!!*

thanks to all the information on this thread....was very very helpful in identifying the problem. My 2005.5 jetta 2.5 with 135k miles had gotten almost undrive able once the car was warmed up.....typical symptoms of the VB failure.

After studying the forums all over....this thread was the one i found most reliable....

After weighing the option finally went with Sunbelt Valve Bodies........since i had a extra truck to drive in the mean time i went for the avenue to take the VB out and send it to Sunbelt to have it rebuilt....they sent a shipping label on mon Apr6, i put in box on Monday night and shipped tuesday night...... it was in on its way back to me by thursday....amazing turnaround 
The accumulator cups were shot, and solenoids needed to be placed. they did this is a one day turnaround.....all in $674 (including shipping both ways)

got it put in this past Friday and was a breeze with many photos i took and this forum. Also got a transmission fluid kit with filter

After all said and done i have my jetta back to 100%

If you need this done contact Josh @ [email protected]

he is very easy communicating via email or phone....great service!!!


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

*Anyone used the Transgo Shift Kit*

I'm just curious, has anyone had any success repairing their VB with the Transgo Shift Kit? 

I have an 06 Jetta Value Edition (2.5L) that is almost undriveable after it heats up. I only have issues when shifting between 3rd and 4th gear once the transmission has heated up. It will slip or shudder when changing between those two gears. If I let go of the gas before it changes gears I can feel it eventually drop into gear and I can continue on my way.

I have 185K miles on it so I'm not sure how much money I want to put into the car so I thought the shift kit may be a good option. 

I may just have to bite the bullet and pay for a rebuilt VB but I thought I'd check first.


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## fitzmanion (Apr 23, 2015)

*Same deal*

I have to do this. You said you took photos?
You bypassed the valve body transgo kit idea I am assuming.
Any more advise would be appreciated. I am bogged down with work but I have a second vehicle so this is a when I get to it ordeal. But $700 is cheaper than the $2K the dealer wants. Other places are telling me replace the entire tranny. Car is in good shape. May fix it and sell it.. trade it in...or if this deal works drive it into the ground. I really don't trust the 09G now though. Super expensive unnecessary parts. Other ride is a nice big white 93 Ford Van with a straight 6. No Power nothing, no cruise, crank windows... less problems.

Anyway would love a link to any info and or mistakes you saw/ came across.
Thanks
Fitz


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## Zzzzz (Nov 3, 2000)

Probably a bad idea, but anyone ever try one of the $250 used valve bodies on eBay? 

Here's a current link...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/09G-O9G-TF6...ITY-/281589861800?hash=item4190104da8&vxp=mtr


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## gsferraro (Sep 22, 2014)

I checked out the link, unless i missed it, it doesnt say how many miles are on the valvebody. Knowing the fact that these are such a big problem, i wouldnt use it. Gary


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

Zzzzz said:


> Probably a bad idea, but anyone ever try one of the $250 used valve bodies on eBay?
> 
> Here's a current link...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/09G-O9G-TF6...ITY-/281589861800?hash=item4190104da8&vxp=mtr


Surely you're better spending $500 to get a reconditioned one instead? They die anywhere from 50,000 miles to 180,000 miles, so even a used one with 25,000 miles on it could be half way to a new valve body?


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

What was the problem with the Max Life fluid? Working fine for me, but only done 9,000 miles since I changed the VB and installed it. Valvoline's website said it works with the 09G.


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

*ReCap on My 09G Problems = FIXED*

I bought a 2007 Jetta (120K miles) for $5000. It shifted fine when cold, hard shifts and down shifts when at operating temp. I was told by a local transmission shop it need a total rebuild ($4,300). 

Bought a Ream Man rebuilt body valve ($713.00 with shipping both ways). It was easy, they provide the return shipping label and do not charge a core unless its unreturned. I used the original box and packing material to return the core. 

Pan Gasket and filter from AutoZone ($22.00)

5 quarts of Valvoline Max Life ( It does meet 09G standards according to Website) ($26.50)

I used a plastic 3/8" hose coupling and screwed it into the drain pan with my fingers ($1.60) from Ace Hardware to refill tranny. It fits snugly into the drain port, with a little twist it seats right in and stayed during the entire refill. Don't waste your money on the high dollar refill tool. 

Fluid pump from Auto Zone ($15.00). They had a cheaper one for $9 but I went with the more expensive one. 

Total Invested on repair: $778.10

It took me about 3 hours to do the job, I took my time with the wiring and reinstall (triple checking). I did not do a reset, I disconnected the battery prior to starting the job. I hooked everything back up and it shifts like a dream, absolutely no hiccups, surges, or flares. I have put 140 miles on it since Saturday and it hasn't given me any trouble.

:wave::wave::wave:FOR SALE: 2007 Jetta 120K miles: $5778.10, tranny shifts great!:wave::wave::wave::wave


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

^ Nice going, I'm sure it feels great to have saved so much $!


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

mhjett said:


> ^ Nice going, I'm sure it feels great to have saved so much $!


Yes, it does. 

It sucks being lied to buy someone selling a car with a jacked up tranny! 

I hope that anyone reading this can find a way to fix their car without spending money on unnecessary parts / labor!


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

Do you happen to have a picture of the hose coupling that you used to fill your transmission fluid with? I am going to take your advice and not buy the tool assuming I can find something similar.


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

cckeeler said:


> Do you happen to have a picture of the hose coupling that you used to fill your transmission fluid with? I am going to take your advice and not buy the tool assuming I can find something similar.












I took the pan right into ace hardware and looked until I found something that fit.

here is a link:

http://www.ponds2go.com/PVC_Plumbing_Coupler_s/108.htm


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

cckeeler said:


> Do you happen to have a picture of the hose coupling that you used to fill your transmission fluid with? I am going to take your advice and not buy the tool assuming I can find something similar.


Another option is to bring the drain bolt or treaded tube into the store and have someone measure the threads. I did not want to waste the time searching. Just wanted to get the job done. 

Here is the fluid pump I used. The hose fits right onto the 3/8 inch coupling. I used a wire tie to cinch it down. 

http://www.eastwood.com/lincoln-ind...ODE=GA220010&gclid=CLaC_IjYmcUCFQaPaQod8WgAiw


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

So I just called Reamman who informed me that I could possibly have a different issue than the valve body. He mentioned a clutch ring that could be the cause of my problems. He mentioned that it is located by the torque converter. Does anyone know anything about this? The guy on Reamman mentioned that since my engine slips between 3rd and 4th (Or 5th if my RPMs are higher) it could possibly be that ring. As with the valve body problems this only becomes a problem after the transmission has heated up. 

Just curious if anyone has done this or heard of this. I don't want to pay for a valve body if it isn't going to fix the problem. Also, anyone know of any guides on how to pull a transmission on these cars?


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

How many miles on the car? Does it down shift hard? Has the transmission fluid ever been changed?

I took mine to a local shop that hooked it up to diagnostic software. No codes were thrown in the tranny, telling me that it was a valve body. I would recommend doing the same thing. 

Most of the people on this thread have experienced a 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 bump. In my case it was all the gears after it warmed up. 

I will say that you have to love a company that will give you straight up advice rather make a sale.


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## cckeeler (Nov 17, 2013)

I have 185K miles on my jetta. The part that the Reamman mentioned was the K2 clutch seal ring sleeve. After doing some research it appears as though that may be the issue. Only problem is that the transmission has to be dropped in order to replace. I may have to track down a shop that is willing to replace that for me. it seems the transmission shops are pretty quick to tell me the transmission needs to be replaced so I am hoping I can find an honest shop in my area.


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

It may be worth having them do all the seals and clutches. If the VB goes out you can do that yourself. A rebuilt Transmission through AutoZone is $3200. When was the oil last changed?


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## princeqiecy (Apr 1, 2015)

So what did you finally do ccleeker, to solve the problem? changed the K2 clutch seal ring sleeve? I think I am having the same problem as you did, only 3-4 affected after driving for a while. Thank you.


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

*Planned Valve Body Replacement*

Re: 2007 Passat 3.6 4Motion SW (09M transmission)

Last week I communicated with SunBelt Valve Bodies in Tampa, FL via their website: https://www.sunbeltvalvebodies.com/

I got an immediate email response from Fabian and we discussed my problem (flare/bump between 2-3 and 4-5th gears) with several emails back and forth.

Here's what I'm going to do:
My local independent tranny shop, that I've used for 30+years, will remove the valve body and I will ship it to SunBelt via UPS. The cost is normally $699 plus a $100 core charge, but since I'm shipping mine, he will charge me $650 that includes shipping it back to me, even if he just sends me a rebuilt VB off the shelf. It's a one day turn around time. It will include all the Sonnax upgrades, their rebuilt solenoids, one year warranty and tech support. My tranny shop owner said that was a very good price. I called ValveBody Express and they quoted me $892, but you have to deal with one of their distributors, through your transmission shop.

My transmission shop said it would cost me between $150-300 to do his work, plus fluid and filter kit, depending how much time its take to set up that adaptive TCM and possible go back in a adjust a valve on the VB. 

So it looks like I may get it done for under a $1000, barring any unforeseen problems. 

I will post the results after the work is done.


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## cch123 (May 22, 2015)

*It looks like I have the same issue...*

Purchased a 2005 VW Beetle Convertible last week, as-is no warrantee. Now it's starting to act up. Works fine when cold but when it warms up it has issues shifting 1-2 and 2-3 and when I brake it's a hard downshift. Talk me into a DIY job. I have experience replacing starters, plug, water pumps and whatnot on other vehicles. I can do this right? Also, what happens if I wait a few months and keep driving it as is? Am I damaging the vehicle driving it around town if I'm not juicing the gas driving like a madman?

Thanks!


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

*Rebuilt Valve Body installed in my 2007 VW Passat 3.6 4Motion 131,500 miles*

I just got my Passat back today with a rebuilt valve body. I've run the hell out of it for a about a hour and I am satisfied so far with the transmission.
I've been without the car for 2 weeks (thankfully I have a few cars to drive), but here's what I did:

My local independent tranny shop removed my VB and I shipped it to SunBelt Valve Body Rebuilders in Tampa, FL. ( https://www.sunbeltvalvebodies.com/ ) I had communicated with them, initially through their website, by email and then by phone with Fabian Romo. They charged me $650 plus $25 for return shipment, which they shipped directly to the tranny shop. The tranny shop said that was a very good price. Sunbelt rec'd the VB one afternoon and shipped it out the next day. 

My tranny shop charged me for 3 hours labors which included resetting the TCM and then drive the car to have it relearn the rebuilt VB, the adaptive feature of the TCM.

So here's is what I spent on the VB:
$695 Cost of rebuild and shipping, including my cost to ship to Tampa
265 Labor
38 Fluid ( I had changed the ATF a month before so no filter)
____
$998 Total

Also, I had the front drive shaft coupling replaced which was extra labor not included above. I furnished the part which costs about $220 at the dealer, but I found it for $75 shipped at http://www.europaparts.com/

Thanks to those on this forum for their previous posts.


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

It's def your Valve Body. Read the posts in this forum and check out the links. If you are mechanically inclined you can do the job for under 850.00


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## Got Screwed VW Style (Mar 25, 2015)

I would def do my homework and prepare to replace the valve body. I have put 2,500 miles on the car since it has been replaced, still holding out fine. I never completed the relearn and it still shifts like a dream. As far as driving the car, I would get it fixed as soon a possible. You could start a domino effect inside the tranny starting with the clutches and then the clutch seals. The hard shifts are problematic to the other components.


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## amosrf (Jul 4, 2015)

*Just did new valve body*

First off, what a great thread! Thanks to everyone involved, this kind of thing is just fantastic. 
Anyway, I had more or less the exact symptoms mentioned in the first post on this thread and repeated by many posters. (2006 Jetta) Hard shifts, delays, over revving, etc. I concluded from this thread that it was the valve body, so I ordered one from Ream Man, $680 plus shipping (with core return). It came fast, 3 days or so and I swapped it out a couple of days ago. I don't really have much to add beyond what's been posted, the procedure was pretty simple, note where the wires go, take your time, etc. 
Anyway, the car runs perfect, hot or cold, so all I can say is thanks again, all, I'm sure it saved me a ton of cash and headaches from bad diagnoses, incompetent dealers, etc.
If anyone has any questions on the procedure I'm happy to share whatever I learned, but I'd be hard pressed to add much to what's already been written by others that probably know a hell of a lot more than I do!
Good luck!


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## olschool (Jul 8, 2015)

*2006 VW Jetta 2.5 Transmission rough shift. 103,000k issue started at 88k*

I want to start off by saying thank you very much to everyone who has contributed their knowledge and experiences relating to these issues with these common problems with VW. My car in the past year in a half has been acting up. Mainly 1st gear going into 2nd gear and when its downshifting from 3rd to 2nd gear. It engages really rough and makes a loud noise and jerks. Ive been reading through the form and so far have come to the conclusion that it has to be a valve body. I bought a used TCM, cause the mechanic told me it could be that but it turned out not to be. So now after finding this site and a little bit of searching and digging came to this conclusion. I would like to ask those of you who have a mechanical background, if my next step should be replacing the valve body, Im hurting on funds and this is my only means of transportation. So please please any feedback would be great.


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## RichardSEL (Apr 5, 2010)

Is there a "dual clutch" in a Tiptronic 09G box? opcorn:
If not, where's the hangup for ATF drainout? Only about 3½L comes out but capacity is six


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

RichardSEL said:


> Is there a "dual clutch" in a Tiptronic 09G box? opcorn:


No. 



RichardSEL said:


> If not, where's the hangup for ATF drainout? Only about 3½L comes out but capacity is six


Provided you removed the drain tube and drained the entire pan, some fluid remains in the final drive and torque converter. When I changed the fluid in mine, only about 3.5L went back in.


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## Floydman (Aug 22, 2015)

*Transmission fluid*

Hi all. This is an awesome thread. I have a 2007 Jetta with all the aforementioned issues as everyone else. Bought it for my daughter with 129k and now has 136k. Just started acting up but only does the hard down shift after I have been driving for a while or when I get off the highway after 30 or so miles also third to fourth isn't pretty either. I took the pan off today and was not thrilled to see the oil was almost as dark as motor oil. There was a little bit of sludge around the magnets but only less than a half dozen of some goldish flecks. No metallic particles that I could see.

So here is my question, is there a way to tell if the valve body has been upgraded per the recall some years ago. Is there a code or number to look for on the valve body?Also what are the chances that a fluid change is all she needs given that there was barely and particulate matter in the pan? Any help will be gratefully appreciated.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Floydman said:


> Hi all. This is an awesome thread. I have a 2007 Jetta with all the aforementioned issues as everyone else. Bought it for my daughter with 129k and now has 136k. Just started acting up but only does the hard down shift after I have been driving for a while or when I get off the highway after 30 or so miles also third to fourth isn't pretty either. I took the pan off today and was not thrilled to see the oil was almost as dark as motor oil. There was a little bit of sludge around the magnets but only less than a half dozen of some goldish flecks. No metallic particles that I could see.
> So here is my question, is there a way to tell if the valve body has been upgraded per the recall some years ago. Is there a code or number to look for on the valve body? Also what are the chances that a fluid change is all she needs given that there was barely and particulate matter in the pan? Any help will be gratefully appreciated.


First to answer your question: Makes no difference if the valve body was changed before, most likely it will need service again.
What you describe sounds to me like the start of the classic 09G valve body problem. The ATF that came out of my 2005.5 Jetta looked the same as what you described. It had only a little fuzz around the magnets in the pan. I rebuilt the valve body and now the transmission shifts good. About the only people that don't have problems are changing ATF every 25 to 30K miles. You need to do at least three changes of ATF to get most of the old black fluid out. Less than half is removed by draining the pan. The 09G is a good transmission. But VW was wrong not to call for regular ATF changes.
Most likely your transmission will require a rebuilt valve body if the fluid change is not helping. You could try replacing the 6 solenoid valves that are in easy reach by just removing the pan. The old black AFT has partials in it that stick to the internal moving parts of the solenoids. New solenoids valve sets are available on eBay for around $300.
BTW Mobil 1 ATF 3309 is what I use for fluid changes. Some say it is the same fluid VW sells in a branded bottle.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

Anyone have any tricks on how to get the connector off of this solenoid? My prying technique doesn't work as it's so close to the filter housing I have no room to maneuver.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

frostydub said:


> Anyone have any tricks on how to get the connector off of this solenoid? My prying technique doesn't work as it's so close to the filter housing I have no room to maneuver.


The first time I removed the electrical connectors on all the large can solenoids it was very difficult. 
I was able to turn the solenoid a small amount that helped to gain better access. 
My technique used a very small blade screwdriver that will fit into the space above the locking tab. Then gently lift the top of the retainer loop so the locking pin on the plug would have room to pass. I used forceps to pull the plug out. I never broke one of the plastic connector loops but if you do aftermarket retainer clips are available.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

Thanks! Pretty much did the same thing I did for 30 minutes yesterday and it popped right off today...

Another question - any tips on how to get the selector lever off? I've got the nut and washer off but it's not budging. I don't want to crank on it as the guide posted towards the beginning mentions no torque transfer.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

frostydub said:


> Another question - any tips on how to get the selector lever off? I've got the nut and washer off but it's not budging. I don't want to crank on it as the guide posted towards the beginning mentions no torque transfer.


I hold the shaft with small Vise-Grips and use another pair to wiggle the arm off. 
When putting the nut back on clamp onto the sides of the selector arm with Vise-Grips when you tighten the nut. That way you are not putting torque on the range selector shaft. You don't want to turn the shaft because that could harm the range selector switch on top of the transmission.
Also make certain the spring(s) and accumulator piston are installed in the bore when installing the valve body. Some models of the 09G have two springs. Spring goes in first then piston with cup end up so spring fits inside.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

bent_rod said:


> I hold the shaft with small Vise-Grips and use another pair to wiggle the arm off.
> When putting the nut back on clamp onto the sides of the selector arm with Vise-Grips when you tighten the nut. That way you are not putting torque on the range selector shaft. You don't want to turn the shaft because that could harm the range selector switch on top of the transmission.
> Also make certain the spring(s) and accumulator piston are installed in the bore when installing the valve body. Some models of the 09G have two springs. Spring goes in first then piston with cup end up so spring fits inside.


Gotcha thanks! Vice grips on the shaft, vice grips on the selector lever and then work it off. Looks like I'll have this all buttoned up tomorrow!


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

frostydub said:


> ....


Please post how many quarts it took to get your transmission refilled. Last valve body I just rebuilt took a little over 5.5 quarts. I measured how much ATF was in drain pan, just under 5 quarts so I refilled with 5 quarts. That turned out to be low, no fluid ran out of standpipe, I had to add another quart.
I over fill, with ATF warmed up then remove drain plug with engine running, then re-plug when the stream starts to reduce down small. Good to have car level when doing the level check. 
I have found most of the transmissions will operate on less fluid but over filling may be worse because of possible foaming.

Edit: Also how many miles on the car you are working on when it started to have shift problems?

Edit: One other thing please look at the Primary Pressure Regulator Boost Valve sleeve on your old valve body. Post what step the retainer is on.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

bent_rod said:


> Please post how many quarts it took to get your transmission refilled. Last valve body I just rebuilt took a little over 5.5 quarts. I measured how much ATF was in drain pan, just under 5 quarts so I refilled with 5 quarts. That turned out to be low, no fluid ran out of standpipe, I had to add another quart.
> I over fill, with ATF warmed up then remove drain plug with engine running, then re-plug when the stream starts to reduce down small. Good to have car level when doing the level check.
> I have found most of the transmissions will operate on less fluid but over filling may be worse because of possible foaming.
> 
> Edit: Also how many miles on the car you are working on when it started to have shift problems?


Not a lot came out (maybe 3-3.5 quarts) but when I'm finished I'll post how much came out and how much I fill it with. Car started having the slide bumps at the beginning of the year, probably around 128k. It's at 136k right now.

I also have not purchased new botls for the valve body. It appears those are stretch bolts? Should I replace them or will they be alright? I can't imagine it would be a problem with the little torque specs they require...


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

frostydub said:


> I also have not purchased new bots for the valve body. It appears those are stretch bolts? Should I replace them or will they be alright? I can't imagine it would be a problem with the little torque specs they require...


I have always used the old bolts, never a problem. I have more fear of stripping out the aluminum holes than popping a bolt. 
What did the instructions say to use for torque on the valve body to casting bolts? Just one torque value or torque and turn 90 degrees more?


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

bent_rod said:


> I have always used the old bolts, never a problem. I have more fear of stripping out the aluminum holes than popping a bolt.
> What did the instructions say to use for torque on the valve body to casting bolts? Just one torque value or torque and turn 90 degrees more?


Valve body to casing is 8nm + 90, filter is 11nm, and pan is 7nm.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

Not sure I saw a link to it in this thread but if anybody wants to download it head over to the beetle forum. 8th post down has a full download VW manual for everything 09g transmission: http://newbeetle.org/forums/transmi...ilt-valve-body-replacement-my-experience.html


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

frostydub said:


> Not sure I saw a link to it in this thread but if anybody wants to download it head over to the beetle forum. 8th post down has a full download VW manual for everything 09g transmission: http://newbeetle.org/forums/transmi...ilt-valve-body-replacement-my-experience.html


That manual looks like an updated version of one I now have. 
It is more readable with some color. The version I have reads like a poor direct translation from German.
Thanks for the link.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

If the rain holds out this afternoon I'll try and get it finished and post everything up by tomorrow.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

frostydub said:


> If the rain holds out this afternoon I'll try and get it finished and post everything up by tomorrow.


I would be very interested about what step the retainer is on the Primary Pressure Regulator Boost Valve sleeve on your old valve body. (See photo on above posting)
All the 09Gs I have come across it is on the middle step.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

bent_rod said:


> I would be very interested about what step the retainer is on the Primary Pressure Regulator Boost Valve sleeve on your old valve body. (See photo on above posting)
> All the 09Gs I have come across it is on the middle step.


Got it all done! I drained a little over 4 liters plus whatever spilled onto the driveway - what a mess... I filled her up with 5.5 liters. After the trans got to 40*C I pulled the plug and drained right at a liter out. So pretty much the same amount that came out went back in.

Old valve body step retainer:










New valve body step retainer:










A big thanks to everyone on this forum for posting up stuff about this. Once completed I realized this job isn't as scary as it's made out to be. You would have to purposely try and plug something into the wrong solenoid for it to fail on you. It can happen but the way the harnesses are laid out I think it was straight forward.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

frostydub said:


> Got it all done! A big thanks to everyone on this forum for posting up stuff about this. Once completed I realized this job isn't as scary as it's made out to be.


Thanks for the info about the Primary Pressure Regulator Boost Valve Sleeve.
Keep us updated on how the computer adaptation to the new valve body works out.


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## Tinman81 (Aug 22, 2008)

JustSteve said:


> Gary,
> Since you own a trans shop, have you ever done or considered a swap of this terrible transmission for something more reliable? I recently did the TransGo shift kit on my 05 Beetle. Like most everyone on here, I bought it not knowing the issue. It drove well during the 10 minute test drive, then after getting it home the hard shifts started. I've got about $250 wrapped up in the issue now, between parts, fluid, tools and the shift kit. Not terribly hard to do and I noticed the difference right away. Now it drives as good as my other vehicles. But looking down the road, I expect the valve body will crap out and I want to pursue replacing this poorly engineered junk with something more maintenance friendly. Any ideas or thoughts?
> 
> Steve


How is the car doing now? Did the transgo kit repair hold up? I'm thinking of going the kit route too.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Tinman81 said:


> How is the car doing now? Did the transgo kit repair hold up? I'm thinking of going the kit route too.


Here is my experience with the TransGo kit.
The kit contains a drill bit that is used to ream out the bushings inside the solenoid valves. After you have ground off the ends of the old solenoid cans. After "cleaning" the bushings new caps are pressed onto the solenoid ends. The kit also has a new bushing & valve assembly that is installed in the TCC Regulator bore along with the old spring & valve. Three smaller drill bits are included to drill out holes in the separator plates. Instructions Note: "Enlarging these holes allows for the normal wear in solenoid to valve control circuits and creates a more positive signal between solenoids and valves."
After installing one of the TransGo kits and clearing the shift adapts the transmission shifted great. But it was never able to learn to shift without a small bump between N and D the first thing after starting the car. I found that the K1 clutch pressure was too low. Possible N92 Solenoid problem? I have no idea what went wrong with the rebuild of the solenoids using the TransGo kit. But nothing helped to eliminate the bump.
Next I installing a set of new small can solenoids I got from eBay seller vwpartfl. They completely eliminate the N to D delay bump and all shifts are great!
The new small can solenoids cost around $300, much more than the TransGo kit. But I think the next O9G valve body I rebuild I may just go with the new small can solenoids to start with. Just replacing the solenoids is a very easy job compared to installing the TransGo kit. I already have the three small drill bits in the TransGo kit so I could do the separator plate mod at the same time. I always take apart the valve body so a complete cleaning and inspection of all the parts takes place.

Edit: I should add that I have used TransGo shift kits in other types of transmissions without problems.


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## Bengoss (Nov 5, 2015)

*Valve body replaced*

Hi guys,

Seems like amost everyone with hard downshifts and sliping after the VB replacement fix all the problems.
I just replaced the VB on my 2006 passat and I got improvement but still not good!
I had delayed engagement and hard hit when going to D and R which is fixed after the new VB but I still get slips between 1-2 and 2-3. Not as it was but still there. 
Can you please help! Any ideas!
I got the rebuild vb from vw dealership for 1150$.
Do you think a software reset will help??

Thanks


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Bengoss said:


> Do you think a software reset will help?? Thanks


When the VW dealer installed the valve body they should have reset the adapts. 
If you installed the rebuilt valve body you need to get the computer reset to remove all the bad learned adapts.
Do you have access to a Ross-Tech VCDS (VAG-COM Diagnostic System)?
You need to reset the transmission adaptation instructions to basic settings. 

http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/cars/autotrans.html

Edit: It has been said in past years that in some cases the adapt software is the source of the 09G shift problems. It was recommended to reset it to basic settings. In later years it was found that the valve body and in most cases the solenoid valves on the valve body is also at fault. 
A rebuilt valve body along with the adapts reset to basic settings will fix the bad shifting 09G most of the time. But it is possible to have burned clutch packs because of the defective valve body. In that case the transmission needs a complete rebuild.


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## Bengoss (Nov 5, 2015)

bent_rod said:


> When the VW dealer installed the valve body they should have reset the adapts.
> If you installed the rebuilt valve body you need to get the computer reset to remove all the bad learned adapts.
> Do you have access to a Ross-Tech VCDS (VAG-COM Diagnostic System)?
> You need to reset the transmission adaptation instructions to basic settings.
> ...


Thanks for your reply bent_rod

I'm not sure if they did any computer reset. 
I don't have any access to vag-com. I'll try and go to another place and ask for the computer reset.
It's very weird that the new valve body fixed the delayed engagement in D and R and the hard hit, no hard downshifts now but I got problems that I didn't have before. Like, slip from 1-2 and 5-6 gear. 
That's why I think that it has to be a software issue. If there was a burnt out cluch I would've probably get the same hard downshifts and the same slips. Now is totally different. 
Do you think they might've gave me a bad VB from the dealership?

Thanks for your help
Ben


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Bengoss said:


> Thanks for your reply bent_rod
> 
> I'm not sure if they did any computer reset.
> I don't have any access to vag-com. I'll try and go to another place and ask for the computer reset.
> ...


It is possible to get a defective rebuilt valve body. But there should be a warranty to cover that type of problem. Also could be the tech that did the work. One just never knows.
Did you take the car back to the place that installed the valve body, if so what did they tell you?
If I had just spent that kind of money and the problem was not fixed I would be demanding they make it right. 
After the adapts are set to basic it can take some time before the transmission learns to shift correctly if you are driving it everyday. To speed up the process you could try this. Bring the transmission to operating temperature. Drive the car at 20% throttle up through the gears. After it shifts into 6th gear release the throttle and let the car coast down until it shifts back into first gear. Repeat this 10 to 15 times. If this is not the answer for your shift problems then about the only thing that could be done is to remove the pan and adjust the clutch control valves on the valve body. Please note that if there are any trouble codes for the transmission the computer will not learn the new adapts. It could take some time for the code to be set but I would expect to see a code if the clutches were slipping in excess.
Best of luck


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## Bengoss (Nov 5, 2015)

bent_rod said:


> It is possible to get a defective rebuilt valve body. But there should be a warranty to cover that type of problem. Also could be the tech that did the work. One just never knows.
> Did you take the car back to the place that installed the valve body, if so what did they tell you?
> If I had just spent that kind of money and the problem was not fixed I would be demanding they make it right.
> After the adapts are set to basic it can take some time before the transmission learns to shift correctly if you are driving it everyday. To speed up the process you could try this. Bring the transmission to operating temperature. Drive the car at 20% throttle up through the gears. After it shifts into 6th gear release the throttle and let the car coast down until it shifts back into first gear. Repeat this 10 to 15 times. If this is not the answer for your shift problems then about the only thing that could be done is to remove the pan and adjust the clutch control valves on the valve body. Please note that if there are any trouble codes for the transmission the computer will not learn the new adapts. It could take some time for the code to be set but I would expect to see a code if the clutches were slipping in excess.
> Best of luck


Thanks for your help man.
No I didn't go back. I don't want to go back because I asked for the valve body replacement.
They told me that the cluches are worn out. But when I saw the pan I decided to replace it. Of course there were some metal piles but nothing major. The car has 140k. 
So if I go back they will just tell me that the problem is in the clutches.
I don't think is that because now the trans acts different. If there was a worn out cluch I would've had the same hard hits.
Tried yesterday some throttle reset with holding the pedal for 10 sec, then wait and than start the car but nothing happened.
I will try next to check the TCM module. That's the last thing I can think of.
Let me know if you know where is that located and if I can replace it by myself?

Thanks again.
Ben


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Bengoss said:


> Tried yesterday some throttle reset with holding the pedal for 10 sec, then wait and than start the car but nothing happened.
> Ben


If the tech that put in the rebuilt valve body didn't clear any transmission codes and reset the transmission adaptation instructions to basic settings you will never be able to get it to learn the new adapts. Just one transmission code will stop the process. I am thinking that because they wanted to sell you a complete transmission job and you just got the valve body they may have not done anything except install the valve body.
No need to throw parts into the car without knowing what is wrong. 
If you are going to work on this this car yourself you need the Ross-Tech Vag-Com tool. Just no way around it. None of the low cost scan tools on ebay made in china will do the job. Just a waste of time and money to get a Chinese knockoff. I know I tested several, the software that comes with them is horrible. I am not connected to Ross-Tech in any way, I had to buy the tool from them if I was going to work on these cars.
The Vag-Com tool is just a cable with black box attached that is a dongle. The software is a free download but you must have their cable before it works. The software is very good with very good online instructions.
Edit: As for the TCM this thread may be of help: http://www.passatworld.com/forums/b5-garage/292810-transmission-control-module-tcm-replacement.html
Best of luck with your car.


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## frostydub (Jan 25, 2011)

Just wanted to give you guys a quick update. After about 1000 miles on the valve body from Ream Man the car is shifting great. Thanks again for all the great info in this thread.


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

I recently performed a 50k fluid/filter change on my 2011 Golf - trans code MAN - and there was a noticeable improvement in shifting afterwards. :thumbup:

Also, I mentioned this earlier in the thread but it's worth saying again -

Pay close attention to the fluid you're buying for your 09G. 

Newer, gen.2 09G transmissions in late-2011+ vehicles (like mine) use a different fluid than the older 2005.5-2010 units. The gen.2 09G uses OE fluid part # G 055 540 A2. There are few aftermarket equivalents to this fluid available Stateside. Blauparts has Ravenol fluid which is a reputable dealer alternative.

This new G 055 540 A2 ATF is dubbed "WS" and has a lower start-up visocity, something like 9,000 [email protected] versus 19,000 [email protected] found in T-IV/JWS3309 fluid. Other characteristics of the fluid like oxidation stability and after-shear viscosity are also improved over the old T-IV/JWS3009 standard.

If you're not sure what your car was filled with from the factory, call your dealer and they can verify using your VIN. Or, check your trans code on the top of the case. If your vehicle is equipped with trans code MAN, then you'll need this new fluid, part # G 055 540 A2.


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

I have previously posted in a couple of threads about my 09G, and wanted to give an update.

2.5L 09G from 2006.
125,000 miles, started rough shifting once warm
140,000 miles, did three fluid changes with the valvoline fluid and a valve body change with a $900 VW supplied valve body + aftermarket gasket and filter
152,000 miles (so 12,000 miles and 22 months after valve body done), just changed fluid again today. The fluid was pretty dirty and dark, so I was glad I changed it again (only one change this time, so only changed 1/2 of it, this due to time constraints). I also did a gasket/filter too, again aftermarket.

My experience now, is such that I'll be doing a fluid change (still with the cheap valvoline from walmart, as I feel it is adequate for my change interval and car age ... the VW fluid seems to be 500% more) every 24 months or 20,000 miles. If something changes in my life and I have spare time again, then I will do more regular changes, probably 12 monthly. I don't think I'll do the filter/gasket again though, as there seems to be no need. The car is likely doing less than 5,000 miles / year now (I now only commute 3 miles each way to work), so it'll probably just be based on age. My goal is for the car to last 5 years or 50,000 miles more, which ever comes first.

I never did the transmission VCSA reset, and have not noticed any issues at all since the valve body change.

Thanks for all the info, and hopefully my photos I posted (in one of the three 09G threads here) are useful for others who are looking for info on the valve body change).


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## scigirl (Jan 14, 2016)

Zzzzz said:


> Probably a bad idea, but anyone ever try one of the $250 used valve bodies on eBay?
> 
> Here's a current link...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/09G-O9G-TF6...ITY-/281589861800?hash=item4190104da8&vxp=mtr


Ugh, bought a 007 rabbit - trans problems a week later. Bought private, so I am SOL on any recourse there....


I am about to buy these $250 valves. My thinking - no way for me to know if replacing the valve body will fix my trans. It has the typical problems described on this forum. I figured $250 is en leui of getting a rebuilt one and finding out it doesn't fix the problem. Losing $250 vs $650 on a rebuilt one. 

Unless I get a proper, rebuilt one and if it doesn't work - return it. Does Sunbelt take returns? 

Thoughts.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

scigirl said:


> Ugh, bought a 007 rabbit - trans problems a week later. Bought private, so I am SOL on any recourse there....
> 
> 
> I am about to buy these $250 valves. My thinking - no way for me to know if replacing the valve body will fix my trans. It has the typical problems described on this forum. I figured $250 is en leui of getting a rebuilt one and finding out it doesn't fix the problem. Losing $250 vs $650 on a rebuilt one.
> ...


I have no idea about that ebay seller.
I replaced all my sol valves with new ones from another eBay seller, VwPartsFL. It is more easy to replace the sol valves than to replace the complete valve body. I replaced the valves last year in the summer and they have been working great. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Min...036434?hash=item3ce2054ed2:g:NsIAAOSwLVZVieM0
You need to get all the old fluid out of the system. I had to change the ATF three times before the fluid looked good and clean.
Note: you don't need to replace the two small on/off valves on the valve body, they don't have problems. You only need the 6 valves that are sold by VwPartsFL.


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## rcprato (Sep 14, 2007)

bent_rod said:


> I have no idea about that ebay seller.
> I replaced all my sol valves with new ones from another eBay seller, VwPartsFL. It is more easy to replace the sol valves than to replace the complete valve body. I replaced the valves last year in the summer and they have been working great.
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Min...036434?hash=item3ce2054ed2:g:NsIAAOSwLVZVieM0
> You need to get all the old fluid out of the system. I had to change the ATF three times before the fluid looked good and clean.
> Note: you don't need to replace the two small on/off valves on the valve body, they don't have problems. You only need the 6 valves that are sold by VwPartsFL.


bent_rod, can you give me a quick idea of what is involved in replacing these solenoids? I am a decent weekend mechanic with access to a shop with a lift and have replaced filter and fluid on my VW so understand proper refill procedure using VCDS.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

rcprato said:


> bent_rod, can you give me a quick idea of what is involved in replacing these solenoids? I am a decent weekend mechanic with access to a shop with a lift and have replaced filter and fluid on my VW so understand proper refill procedure using VCDS.


First remove the electrical connectors on the six solenoids. For me this is the hard part. My method requires a small flat bade screwdriver to push under the release tab and to pull on the plug with forceps. If you happen to break a retainer clip on a plug, Sonnax makes retainer clip replacements. http://d2q1ebiag300ih.cloudfront.net/uploads/instruction/file/723/59947-60-IN.pdf
Remove the bolts on the two retainer bars that hold the keeper pins for the solenoids and then remove pins. Keep an eye out for the pins you don't lose any when removing the bars. Remove old sol valves one by one and replace with new ones. As I recall the bolts that hold the retainer bars don't reach down into the valve body, so no torque wrench is when tightening the bolts. But the value in the ATSG manual is given as 62 in.lb. for the bracket bolts. Make sure to get all the plugs connected to the correct solenoids and all the wires routed correctly. A very good idea is to take some photos before removing any parts.
Some people have been able to get by without a reset of the computer adapts others don't. If you have read all the posts above you know what I'm talking about.
Here is the replacement solenoid identification info given to me by eBay seller VwPartsFL.
Replacement solenoids valves for 09G, the color code is for the plastic connectors on the sol cans.
N90 is black
N283 is black
N282 is Yellow (more of a cream)
N92 is Yellow (more of a cream)
N93 is grey
N91 is the largest solenoid

















I think you can get all the solenoids out this way. All the units I have worked on I had the complete valve body out of the transmission on my bench when replacing the solenoids. 
For the transmissions I have worked on, changing the six solenoids will fix the transmission most of the time, without a complete transmission rebuild. You need to understand other problems are possible in the transmission.
Best of luck with your car and please update us with the outcome.


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## Jarnett (Jan 20, 2016)

*It's a growler!!*

I have a 06 GLI, the trans shifts really good (surprisingly after reading about its issues) but while in any gear it has a growling sound and vibrates through the car a little, but take it out of gear and it dissappears and sounds good. I figure it's either shaft bearings or clutch packs chattering?? Any suggestions?


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## Jarnett (Jan 20, 2016)

And it only does it while it's stopped.


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## rcprato (Sep 14, 2007)

bent_rod, thanks for the information about replacing the solenoids and all the other great information you have provided in this thread :thumbup::thumbup:

It is people like you that make this Forum such a valuable resource, I wish I lived within a few hours of where you are and could pay you to do the work for me.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Jarnett said:


> And it only does it while it's stopped.


Could be a defective torque converter.


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## Jarnett (Jan 20, 2016)

*It's a growler!!*

Isn't the torque converter on these just a dual clutch pack? And if it were a torque converter wouldn't it make sounds in park/neutral, in gear and driving? 
Regardless I'll be yanking it out and opening it up, I would just like a good direction to start. I can rebuild U.S. automatics, but these things are foreign to me.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Jarnett said:


> Isn't the torque converter on these just a dual clutch pack? And if it were a torque converter wouldn't it make sounds in park/neutral, in gear and driving?
> Regardless I'll be yanking it out and opening it up, I would just like a good direction to start. I can rebuild U.S. automatics, but these things are foreign to me.


So you have the DSG transmission?


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## mhjett (Oct 16, 2000)

Jarnett said:


> I have a 06 GLI, the trans shifts really good (surprisingly after reading about its issues) but while in any gear it has a growling sound and vibrates through the car a little, but take it out of gear and it dissappears and sounds good. I figure it's either shaft bearings or clutch packs chattering?? Any suggestions?


GLIs have the DSG, which is not the 09G. 



Jarnett said:


> Isn't the torque converter on these just a dual clutch pack? And if it were a torque converter wouldn't it make sounds in park/neutral, in gear and driving?
> Regardless I'll be yanking it out and opening it up, I would just like a good direction to start. I can rebuild U.S. automatics, but these things are foreign to me.


The DSG does not have a torque converter. Dual clutches, yes.



bent_rod said:


> So you have the DSG transmission?


Yep, he's in the wrong thread.


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## Jarnett (Jan 20, 2016)

Yeah I posted in the wrong thread, and yes it seems I have the dsg, looks like more of a pita to work on. The people in the dsg thread don't seem to like to answer questions, oh well, not the first time I did **** on my own!


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## TheRegVW (Jan 22, 2016)

Any clue if this problem is still apparent on powertrains past the MK5?


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## jimmychee (May 14, 2012)

Would a worn valve body cause a car to appear like its stuck in neutral? My story is located here:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ears-stuck-in-neutral&p=92712794#post92712794


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

jimmychee said:


> Would a worn valve body cause a car to appear like its stuck in neutral? My story is located here:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ears-stuck-in-neutral&p=92712794#post92712794


I read your other posting. Sounds as if you have been driving the car with the shift problem for some time now. When the transmission is shifting poorly all kinds of stress is placed on the clutch packs in the transmission. You may have wore out much of the material on the clutch frictions. This makes a complete transmission rebuild a possibility.
It is possible to have very low line pressure caused by a stuck pressure control solenoid valve. Low line pressure could cause the transmission not to engage in any gear. 
A complete VAG-Com VCDS readout of the transmission would be helpful. I would also get an automatic transmission gauge set and check the port pressure. Gauge sets are low cost at HF. IM me if you have questions about how to use the gauge set.
If you have a set of solenoid valves on order I would give them a try after a couple changes of ATF.


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## Phae Phae (Apr 22, 2008)

So, I have an 08 Rabbit with a confirmed issue with the valve body. I missed the extended warranty and VW refused to help. Dealer recommended a new transmission at one point.

Parts and labor for the valve body fix is about $1500, however I've seen 09G transmissions from 2012+ 2.5L VWs for $700-800 shipped. My local shop says its about $800 labor to put in the new transmission - making the cost roughly the same. However, I've been told that shift points might be different and that the newer transmission might not be able to communicate with my ECU.

What is the best course of action?

Edit: Looking at buying something like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TRANSMISSIO...ash=item43e981561a:g:TUkAAOSwgQ9V6EJ1&vxp=mtr

Would this be a difficult swap? Or is it plug and play?


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

scigirl said:


> Ugh, bought a 007 rabbit - trans problems a week later. Bought private, so I am SOL on any recourse there....
> 
> 
> I am about to buy these $250 valves. My thinking - no way for me to know if replacing the valve body will fix my trans. It has the typical problems described on this forum. I figured $250 is en leui of getting a rebuilt one and finding out it doesn't fix the problem. Losing $250 vs $650 on a rebuilt one.
> ...


Sent Sunbelt my AW09G-VB-SB3 valve body in May of 2015 to have it rebuilt. A couple of weeks ago I started getting the 2-3 gear flair/bump again after only 4,100 miles. I called Sunbelt, they said to ship to them and they'd fix under one year warranty. Just called them and they had just fixed it and were shipping it back today, one day turn around. They told me they found trash in the valve body and fix it (I'll have to take their word for it). Before I sent it to them last year I had already had a tranny flush and new filter once, then did it again when my tranny shop took out and reinstalled the VB. Not sure if my shop did it last time, but I told them to flush out the cooler with fresh fluid and put new filter if it has one.

Unfortunately my VW had 130,000 miles when I started having problems and don't know if the fluid had even been changes. When they reinstall the VB again, that will be 3 fluid and filter changes in about 5,000 miles. I'll go back in 12 months and change it again. As you know the torque converter retains fluid after an change, so hopefully multiple fluid changes will get it clean.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

TRIBUTE100 said:


> Sent Sunbelt my AW09G-VB-SB3 valve body in May of 2015 to have it rebuilt. A couple of weeks ago I started getting the 2-3 gear flair/bump again after only 4,100 miles. I called Sunbelt, they said to ship to them and they'd fix under one year warranty. Just called them and they had just fixed it and were shipping it back today, one day turn around. They told me they found trash in the valve body and fix it (I'll have to take their word for it). Before I sent it to them last year I had already had a tranny flush and new filter once, then did it again when my tranny shop took out and reinstalled the VB. Not sure if my shop did it last time, but I told them to flush out the cooler with fresh fluid and put new filter if it has one.
> 
> Unfortunately my VW had 130,000 miles when I started having problems and don't know if the fluid had even been changes. When they reinstall the VB again, that will be 3 fluid and filter changes in about 5,000 miles. I'll go back in 12 months and change it again. As you know the torque converter retains fluid after an change, so hopefully multiple fluid changes will get it clean.


Not sure how a flush machine could be connected to the 09G. All the ones I have seen have the ATF cooler integrated into the transmission. No ATF fluid connections are accessible from the outside of the transmission. The integrated cooler only has engine coolant hoses connected. Some models are said to have external ATF coolers but I have not seen one. It is very difficult to remove all the fluid from the old torque converter. All the transmission rebuilds I do, the torque converter is replaced new. 
As for the rebuilt valve body having trash in it. If that is true, the transmission may have problems with clutch frictions that are depositing derbies into the ATF. The partials can clog up small filter screens that are internal and used to protect control valves.
If the valve body continues to become clogged you could be inline for a complete transmission rebuild.


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

bent_rod said:


> Not sure how a flush machine could be connected to the 09G. All the ones I have seen have the ATF cooler integrated into the transmission. No ATF fluid connections are accessible from the outside of the transmission. The integrated cooler only has engine coolant hoses connected. Some models are said to have external ATF coolers but I have not seen one. It is very difficult to remove all the fluid from the old torque converter. All the transmission rebuilds I do, the torque converter is replaced new.
> As for the rebuilt valve body having trash in it. If that is true, the transmission may have problems with clutch frictions that are depositing derbies into the ATF. The partials can clog up small filter screens that are internal and used to protect control valves.
> If the valve body continues to become clogged you could be inline for a complete transmission rebuild.


bent_rod, thanks for your comment. Just got my Passat back yesterday. I had my long time transmission mechanic, who has had his own shop for 30+ years, take out the VB I had rebuilt by SunBelt in May 2015. He took it out and I shipped it down to SunBelt, they fixed it in one day, and they shipped it back to my tranny man at no charge (under one year warranty). 
Before reinstalling the VB, he removed the cooler and flushed it out(external unit that sits on top of tranny), got all the fluid out of the torque converter (note that I had the tranny fluid was replaced and screen cleaned once early last year before I had VB rebuilt the first time, then the fluid was changed again at that time). He said everything was clean as a whistle. I just checked the tranny cooler and it had new screw clamps on the radiator coolant connections and I could see fresh tool marks on the big allen nut on top of the cooler. He said he has a machine that he uses to flush out the all the lines, etc. He charged me $90 for all the fluid he used. He wanted to be confident that everything was as clean as it could get. He said when they removed the VB two weeks ago the drained fluid looked good and the filter screen was clean. 

My total charge was $347 for the work and fluid and I paid $25 to ship the VB to SunBelt. SunBelt did not charge me, even for the return shipping. 

Hopefully this will be a long term fix. If not, I'll be selling the car.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

TRIBUTE100 said:


> bent_rod, thanks for your comment. Just got my Passat back yesterday. I had my long time transmission mechanic, who has had his own shop for 30+ years, take out the VB I had rebuilt by SunBelt in May 2015. He took it out and I shipped it down to SunBelt, they fixed it in one day, and they shipped it back to my tranny man at no charge (under one year warranty).
> Before reinstalling the VB, he removed the cooler and flushed it out(external unit that sits on top of tranny), got all the fluid out of the torque converter (note that I had the tranny fluid was replaced and screen cleaned once early last year before I had VB rebuilt the first time, then the fluid was changed again at that time). He said everything was clean as a whistle. I just checked the tranny cooler and it had new screw clamps on the radiator coolant connections and I could see fresh tool marks on the big allen nut on top of the cooler. He said he has a machine that he uses to flush out the all the lines, etc. He charged me $90 for all the fluid he used. He wanted to be confident that everything was as clean as it could get. He said when they removed the VB two weeks ago the drained fluid looked good and the filter screen was clean. My total charge was $347 for the work and fluid and I paid $25 to ship the VB to SunBelt. SunBelt did not charge me, even for the return shipping. Hopefully this will be a long term fix. If not, I'll be selling the car.


Thanks very much for your report on the outcome. I often wondered if one could hook on to the internal AFT lines by taking off the cooler.
I can understand you wanting to sell the car if this is not a long term fix for the transmission problems. I am the third owner of a 2005.5 Jetta. When I got it the car had many problems and the transmission problem was the last straw for the former owner. After installing around $1500 in parts (all my own labor) the car again is a very nice car to drive. I think the German engineering and in the case of the transmission Japanese engineering is good but the quality of many of the parts that VW is using is very poor. The cars are having way too many problems. I am now working on a 1997 Subaru with over 200,000 miles on it. That car has never had any transmission problems. The only problem it has every had other than normal service items is a bad head gasket. I also have seen many other car makes operate without major problems for over 200,000 miles.


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## rcprato (Sep 14, 2007)

I think with my B6 Passat VW made decisions to cut cost thinking they would get the same quality from different suppliers, at least that is my opinion.

My B5.5 4Motion 1.8T wagon with ZF automatic transmission never gave me any problems, changed fluid and filter at 110K and drove to 180K before selling.

The Aisin transmissions just don't seem to be of the same quality as the ZF transmissions or maybe it is the Aisin transmissions supplied to VW ?


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## andyd (Jun 23, 2015)

i have an 09 rabbit with an 09g with ~ 100k miles on it. lately it clunks on occasion when downshifting 4-3 most frequently after coasting and when cold 1-2 is kinda hard as well. I've had the filter and fluid changed at 70k and 90k. Is this something a valve body would fix? I drove a B7 passat 2.5 with an 09g the other day (about 50k miles on it) and thought man I wished my car still shifted like that.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

andyd said:


> i have an 09 rabbit with an 09g with ~ 100k miles on it. lately it clunks on occasion when downshifting 4-3 most frequently after coasting and when cold 1-2 is kinda hard as well. I've had the filter and fluid changed at 70k and 90k. Is this something a valve body would fix? I drove a B7 passat 2.5 with an 09g the other day (about 50k miles on it) and thought man I wished my car still shifted like that.


I would try the valve body. A very good chance it will fix the shift problems. 
After getting the repaired valve body installed the transmission adaptation needs to be reset. This will remove all the bad learned information from the computer memory. After the relearning process the transmission should be smooth again.


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## andyd (Jun 23, 2015)

which valve body is best? the dealer one or is there a better rebuilt one out there?


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

andyd said:


> which valve body is best? the dealer one or is there a better rebuilt one out there?


I doubt many people have used more than one, so very hard to know what's 'the best'. I used VW dealer supplied one, which was reconditioned by someone that VW-North America probably subcontracts too (or maybe they go back to Mexico? Either way, VW have decided on someone good enough). I got a 25% off coupon from the dealer site, and paid about $900. It works perfectly (two years and 13,000 miles so far). Would a $500 eBay one be as good? Maybe, but I've only ever bought this one and it's good. I didn't want to get a cheaper one and maybe have to send it back and have the car in and out of action. My dealer is less than 5 miles away.


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## 87fierospyder (Feb 22, 2016)

*Valve body solenoid springs*

Hope someone can get me out of a jam. My daughters 2005 convertible beetle 1.8t with 09g tranny started acting up in the usual manner so started to rebuild valve body. Took out solenoids and the springs fell out that are below the solenoid as well. Not sure what color spring goes with the n283 or n282. I have a red and white spring that came out they are both same length and diameter but different spring rate. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
Tim


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## mbaker33 (Aug 1, 2006)

I've got slipping between 3 and 4, where the RPM's spike up to 3-5k and then the tranny will finally engage. I manage it by letting off the accelerator but I want to get this fixed before major damage is done. I'm understanding that replacing the K2 Clutch Seal Ring Sleeve (http://www.valvebodyxpress.com/parts/1800-k2-clutch-seal-ring-sleeve-kit#tabs1-instructions) should fix the issue, without the need to also replace the VB as well. I'm just hoping someone can confirm that this is the case before I go through the trouble of dropping the tranny and then flushing the fluid.

Thanks,

Mark


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## princeqiecy (Apr 1, 2015)

mbaker33 do you have this issue after driving for a while (when the tranny is hot) or every time you drive the car? Also, did you buy the car in that state or the problem started with the car in your possession? A 3-4 slip could be caused by either a faulty solenoid (Valve body in general) or a spinning K2 clutch sleeve ring. The symptoms could look alike but remember the devil lies in the details. umpkin:


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## alexlm (Feb 27, 2009)

Hello! I need your help ... 
My passat b6 2.0t makes a cluki g sound when its cold. It happens when you move the car from P to D or R. It also feels it shifts wierd from 2 to 3rd. Im getting temp sensor of the transmission as a code. Any thoughts? 
Thanks in advance


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexlm said:


> Hello! I need your help ...
> My passat b6 2.0t makes a cluki g sound when its cold. It happens when you move the car from P to D or R. It also feels it shifts wierd from 2 to 3rd. Im getting temp sensor of the transmission as a code. Any thoughts?
> Thanks in advance


You should address the sensor code first. First check for bad connections in plugs and wires connecting to the transmission. Then remove pan and check connections on the valve body going to the sensor. After that I would check the temp sensor for proper resistance/temp output. I have found in most cases the problem is not inside the sensor but the wires going into the temp sensor or connectors.


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## blurm (Jun 1, 2011)

*Similiear Promblem / Slipping out of 3rd/High RPM/ Chunking into 4th if gas isn't let off*



bent_rod said:


> Thanks very much for your report on the outcome. I often wondered if one could hook on to the internal AFT lines by taking off the cooler.
> I can understand you wanting to sell the car if this is not a long term fix for the transmission problems. I am the third owner of a 2005.5 Jetta. When I got it the car had many problems and the transmission problem was the last straw for the former owner. After installing around $1500 in parts (all my own labor) the car again is a very nice car to drive. I think the German engineering and in the case of the transmission Japanese engineering is good but the quality of many of the parts that VW is using is very poor. The cars are having way too many problems. I am now working on a 1997 Subaru with over 200,000 miles on it. That car has never had any transmission problems. The only problem it has every had other than normal service items is a bad head gasket. I also have seen many other car makes operate without major problems for over 200,000 miles.


From what I gather replacing the valve body is the best fix here.... Now if the car has 130K should I buy new one or have it rebuilt ?

Also do you think it's wise to replace the transmission mount?

I have had this problem for about 3 years now ..... I replaced the ATF fluid about a year ago but the problem is back again.

And advice is greatly appreciated.

Thank You

Best Regards


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

blurm said:


> From what I gather replacing the valve body is the best fix here.... Now if the car has 130K should I buy new one or have it rebuilt ?
> 
> Also do you think it's wise to replace the transmission mount?
> 
> ...


If just by changing the fluid fixed the shift problem the last time it is possible that a rebuilt or new valve body will do the job.
The majority of problems will be fixed on the 09G by only replacing the solenoid valves. I had no luck with the rebuild kit from TransGo. The new solenoids valves I got from an eBay seller are working good. 
If the transmission mount is bad replace it. My car has all the original mounts and they look good. I would only get the stock mounts. Some aftermarket ones are much too hard for normal everyday driving.
Best of Luck


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## Danny. (May 7, 2016)

*My 09G ongoing issues*

Hi, Wondering if anyone can help me with a troublesome golf plus 2006 1.6fsi with the notorious 09g autobox

Valve body has been replaced twice.

1st replacement left me with 2-3 flare and 4-5 flare. spent hours doing adaptive relearns after restoring ECU to factory settings. STILL NO GOOD

2nd valve body has now left me with hard downshift from 5-4 and also hard & delayed engagement from N-D. Again spent hours doing adapts STILL NO GOOD

I don't know where to turn now? Am I doing something wrong? I'm reseting adapts via engine adaption 00 and driving up thru gears no more than 30% throttle and coming slowly to a stop 30-60 sconds.

Someone please give me some advice? Do these adaptions really take sooooooooooo long?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Danny. said:


> Hi, Wondering if anyone can help me with a troublesome golf plus 2006 1.6fsi with the notorious 09g autobox
> Valve body has been replaced twice.
> 1st replacement left me with 2-3 flare and 4-5 flare. spent hours doing adaptive relearns after restoring ECU to factory settings. STILL NO GOOD
> 2nd valve body has now left me with hard downshift from 5-4 and also hard & delayed engagement from N-D. Again spent hours doing adapts STILL NO GOOD
> ...


 First make sure to follow all the steps to reset shift adapts to factory default. Next all trouble codes for the transmission must be cleared and the transmission must be up to operating temperature before the adapts will relearn. Accelerate up to gear 6 at about 20% throttle opening. Let coast down to stop without using the brake. (I think as soon a it shifts back into 1st should be ok.) This could take 10 or more cycles to change adapts. At times the shifts could get worse before everything is smooth again. 
On my 09G the rebuild kit for the solenoids valves never did shift correctly. No amount of relearn cycles fixed the problem. I had to buy new small can solenoid valves from ebay seller vwpartfl. The shifts were very good to start with after installing the new solenoid valves even before I started the relearn process.


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## Sanaf (Apr 26, 2016)

*RPM rises when shifting*

Hey everyone,

I am having a problem , take a look at this video of my car, i shift at 5k rpm but it rises more..
If i would shift without giving a hard punch of a gas it won't do that .
it would happen even if i shift at 2 or 3k rpm.

Here's the link :
https://youtu.be/wzFNkleZL9A

Does it happen to anyone of you ?


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## nywesson (Jun 5, 2016)

*09g questions*

Hi Brad,

I don't know if you are still a member of this forum, but I thought I'd reach out and give it a shot anyway. 

I have a 2006 Mini Cooper S six speed automatic (non-CVT) with the Aisin-Warner 09G, (at least I believe so), with 63K original miles. The car would seem to shift/drive normally for the first 30 to 40 minutes, or so, or until it warmed up. Then slip/race from 3rd to 4th, clunk, sometimes slam into reverse. After being parked for a bit, and cooling down, car would drive normally again, for a short time, anyway. All signs seem to point to a worn VB. So I picked up a (supposedly) slightly used, rebuilt VB from some guy on Ebay. The VB came out of a 2005 VW Jetta 2.5, (again, supposedly). Is the trans the same for both cars? And, more specifically, are the transmissions from both cars case cooled, or remote cooled? I understand it makes a significant difference in the ports of the separator plate, and, according to Julie at VBX, the results can be "catastrophic" to the trans if the wrong VB is installed. I was going to attempt the re-learning process with the Jetta VB now installed, but without taking both units apart to check the ports in the separator plates, I'm not sure I wan't to risk it. So, should both units be exactly the same, based on the cars they came from? BTW the car has only been driven around the block since the shop installed the (rebuilt) unit, and now the shifting is considerably worse, and happens right out of the gate. Should I try the steps to re-learn the shift points? Can I end up doing more harm? Any thoughts would be most appreciated. 

Thanks! Dan W.


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## btrux0611 (Aug 3, 2012)

nywesson said:


> Hi Brad,
> 
> I don't know if you are still a member of this forum, but I thought I'd reach out and give it a shot anyway.
> 
> ...


Boy that really sucks. Sorry to hear. I'm not much of a believer that a re learn is going to help any but idk. 
Just wanted to share my recent experience. Well I got lucky :
My 08 Passat had a nasty slip bump shift from 2-3 gear. 137k miles. 
Found a used transmission from a 06 Passat with only 76k miles locally for only 300!$ and all works great now and install wasn't to bad with another experienced mechanic friend.


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## nywesson (Jun 5, 2016)

*09g*



btrux0611 said:


> Boy that really sucks. Sorry to hear. I'm not much of a believer that a re learn is going to help any but idk.
> Just wanted to share my recent experience. Well I got lucky :
> My 08 Passat had a nasty slip bump shift from 2-3 gear. 137k miles.
> Found a used transmission from a 06 Passat with only 76k miles locally for only 300!$ and all works great now and install wasn't to bad with another experienced mechanic friend.


Thanks for the response. I actually ordered a fully rebuilt valve body from Transmission Parts Direct, in Holtsville, NY. They claim to perform a much more thorough bench test than VB Express. and they came highly referred. Hopefully this fixes the problem. Glad to hear lady luck was on your side. I've already rolled the dice and lost enough times with this. Fingers crossed.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

nywesson said:


> Hi Brad,
> 
> I don't know if you are still a member of this forum, but I thought I'd reach out and give it a shot anyway.
> 
> ...



The original valve body with only 63K miles with symptoms you describe is a classic case of "Bad 09G solenoids". The valve body shouldn't be wore to the extent it needs much of anything but cleaning and new solenoid valves. I have found that NEW solenoid valves will fix most 09G problems. I think about all of the rebuilders will install rebuilt solenoid valves. That said it is possible to have other problems with the valve body like valve leaks and sticking parts. I always use my Bench Buddy brushes to recondition all the valve cylinder bores and accumulator cylinder bores. It is possible to have excessive clutch friction material wear and frictions burn caused by the old bad acting valve body. If that is the case only a complete rebuild of the transmission will cure the problem. 
After you install the rebuilt valve body the transmission should shift "about" normal, without bad delayed flairs. You should do the adapt reset and relearn process to get the best shifts.
Hopefully the rebuilt valve body will fix your transmission.


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## nywesson (Jun 5, 2016)

*09G Solenoids*



bent_rod said:


> The original valve body with only 63K miles with symptoms you describe is a classic case of "Bad 09G solenoids". The valve body shouldn't be wore to the extent it needs much of anything but cleaning and new solenoid valves. I have found that NEW solenoid valves will fix most 09G problems. I think about all of the rebuilders will install rebuilt solenoid valves. That said it is possible to have other problems with the valve body like valve leaks and sticking parts. I always use my Bench Buddy brushes to recondition all the valve cylinder bores and accumulator cylinder bores. It is possible to have excessive clutch friction material wear and frictions burn caused by the old bad acting valve body. If that is the case only a complete rebuild of the transmission will cure the problem.
> After you install the rebuilt valve body the transmission should shift "about" normal, without bad delayed flairs. You should do the adapt reset and relearn process to get the best shifts.
> Hopefully the rebuilt valve body will fix your transmission.



Thanks for the reply. 

If it is just a case of bad solenoids wouldn't the symptoms be happening as soon as I start driving? Why would the car drive/shift normally for the first 30 to 40 minutes, (when cold)? Doesn't this suggest trans fluid getting past worn valve bores once everything heats up, and the oil thins out?

Thanks again!


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

nywesson said:


> Thanks for the reply.
> 
> If it is just a case of bad solenoids wouldn't the symptoms be happening as soon as I start driving? Why would the car drive/shift normally for the first 30 to 40 minutes, (when cold)? Doesn't this suggest trans fluid getting past worn valve bores once everything heats up, and the oil thins out?
> 
> Thanks again!


The solenoids don't start sticking until they warm up. The coils are not bad. Rebuilders will ream out the internal bushings and sometimes replace the bushings with upgraded teflon ones. I never had good luck by just cleaning/reaming the internal bushings.


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## nywesson (Jun 5, 2016)

*White flag*



bent_rod said:


> The solenoids don't start sticking until they warm up. The coils are not bad. Rebuilders will ream out the internal bushings and sometimes replace the bushings with upgraded teflon ones. I never had good luck by just cleaning/reaming the internal bushings.


So, I somewhat bit the bullet and bought a new rebuilt valve body, ($695.00 with core return), from Direct Transmission Parts in Holtsville, NY. Have only driven one day, but so far, so good! Expensive lesson (sort of) learned - fix it right. fix it once. Hopefully I'll remember that the next time I want to try four or five other 'fixes', ultimately costing me double, or more, than it should have! :screwy::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

nywesson said:


> So, I somewhat bit the bullet and bought a new rebuilt valve body, ($695.00 with core return), from Direct Transmission Parts in Holtsville, NY. Have only driven one day, but so far, so good! Expensive lesson (sort of) learned - fix it right. fix it once. Hopefully I'll remember that the next time I want to try four or five other 'fixes', ultimately costing me double, or more, than it should have! :screwy::screwy::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:


Thanks for the update. Good to hear you have a reliable transmission.


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## ppbouard (Jul 8, 2015)

*VW09K Issues*

Hi

First, thanks to all for this Thread which i really helpful

I own a '06 VW Transporter (EUROVAN in US I guess), 2.5TDI 174HP (R5) equipped by the TF60SN (VW09K almost the same than VW09G)

The transmission started to shift 3>4 Neutral. 
So I remove the pan to 1st Check the oil.(I live in France and VW don't plan to change ATF (I agree this is a mess)). 
Oil smell burnt.
So I remove the VB to check the Friction I can see.
K2 Friction were totally slicks and plates looks burnt.
So I remove the entire Gearbox and change the K2 frictions and plates (all the other Clutch and Brakes looks fine)
K2 Seal Rings didn't spin but in case of, I drill it and put a Spring Pin into it as Sonnax Kit recommended (with the Sonnax Kit Parts)
I also send the VB to a Rebuilder in UK (nobody seems to do it in France and Shipment + Toll Taxes to Us = More expensive than a new one)

Get It Back, replace the Gearbox and VB on the Van, clear codes, do adaption relearn at the VW Dealer, and try to drive the car
1>2 Ok 
2>3 in 2 times 
3>4 Slipping 
4 Slipping at full trhottle 
5 shuddering + Slipping at full throttle 
6 shuddering + Slipping at full throttle
Infos : if Sport Mode engaged no shuddering on 5 and 6 and 4 seems to engage quickly

Try to adjust Clutch Control Valves but no real changes !
The transmission get into Limp Mode again about few kms later
Check the Codes :
17113 - P0729 : Clutch of indicated gear is faulty (wrong ratio, slip)
17118 - P0734 : 4th Gear (wrong ratio, slip)
17119 - P0735 : 5th Gear (wrong ratio, slip)

Asumming K2 Ring Sleave is not leaking (no spining), K2 Clutch is all new, I target 2 things:
1 - VB could still be faulty, the VB Rebuilder is sending me a new one
2 - Torque Converter is faulty, don't Lock Up very well (shuddering on 5 & 6, Slipping on 4, 2>3 in 2 Times), and don' t send enough pressure into the Box which cause also the 4th Slipping = TCC Rebuild / New

What do you think of this diagnosys (In France, Gearbox specialists offently just change the Gearbox without trying to fix the problem / More Manual Box than Automatic)

Many thanks


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

ppbouard said:


> Hi
> 
> First, thanks to all for this Thread which i really helpful
> 
> ...


The description you give of symptoms would indicate low line pressure to the clutches. 
Possible low output from the pump. Could you replace with a remanufactured or good used pump.


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## ppbouard (Jul 8, 2015)

Hi Bent_rod

Ok, do you know a test to check the Pump (line pressure Gauge to plug somewhere)?
In case oil pump is the problem, am i not supposed to get some issues on 1st and 2nd too?

Thanks

PP


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

ppbouard said:


> Hi Bent_rod
> 
> Ok, do you know a test to check the Pump (line pressure Gauge to plug somewhere)?
> In case oil pump is the problem, am i not supposed to get some issues on 1st and 2nd too?
> ...


You have replace the valve body and made repairs to the frictions, next item to suspect would be the pump.
I have not seen a bad pump on the 09G but it is possible. Most of the time a rebuilt valve body with new solenoids will repair an 09G. I have seen burned K3 frictions. 
I always look at the line pressure first when making a diagnosis. 
In the states it is possible to find a low mileage used transmission in a salvage yard.
Best of luck










I would expect to see pressure readings close to below, with transmission warm.
D Idle K1 54 - 60 and B2 0.9
D Stall K1 146 - 160 and B2 0.9
R Idle K3 80 - 85 and B2 80 - 85
R Stall K3 270 - 275 and B2 270 - 275
TCC Release 80 - 90 in reverse
All pressure readings in PSI.
All above are static readings, vehicle not moving.
For stall test I run engine at around 2000 RPM, only for time required to take reading.


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

*Here we go again*

Here we go again. With mileage at 138,600, having trouble again with my 09G tranny.
I have posted previously that I had the valve body rebuilt on my '07 Passat Wagon 3.6L 4motion in May 2015 by Sunbelt. After about 4,100 miles I started having the same bump/flair problem between 2-3rd gears. Sent the value body back to Sunbelt under warranty to fix in February 2016. Had it reinstalled and my transmission man removed all the old fluid out including the torque convertor, said it was clean as a 'pin'. Did not a reset of TCM, but drove it normally and it shifted fine until-

Several weeks ago I starting getting a slight flair between 1st and 2nd under light acceleration. Then, the other evening, it started getting a slight flair between 2nd and 3rd under light acceleration. This is only after about 3,000 miles since the second rebuild of VB in February. Under heavy acceleration the flair is not noticed, only a slightly longer time for the clutch to engage the next gear, as compared with 3 to 4 and 4 to 5, etc.

So twice it's only gone 3-4,000 miles before having trouble again. I was getting ready to
put new tires on the car, but now I have a big decision to make, sell it or keep it. I love driving the car, handling and acceleration are great, but this transmission problem is the pits.

(BTW, on my original invoice from Sunbelt, it states: "09G Complete valve body with remanufactured linear solenoids, without brass pressure plugs, Sonnax up-grades, gaskets and sub-kit 100% tested") 
Not sure if there was a better way to rebuild it.


I'm seriously thinking of selling it. I will have had the car 2 years in October, only put about 10,000 miles on it. Including purchase price, valve body rebuilds and installs, but not including regular maintenance, I've got about $7,800 in it. New tires will be about $600. It's now worth maybe $6,000 if I sold it to a private party. 

Any suggestions ? Worth fixing or sell it ? Thanks for your help.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

TRIBUTE100 said:


> Here we go again. With mileage at 138,600, having trouble again with my 09G tranny.
> I have posted previously that I had the valve body rebuilt on my '07 Passat Wagon 3.6L 4motion in May 2015 by Sunbelt. After about 4,100 miles I started having the same bump/flair problem between 2-3rd gears. Sent the value body back to Sunbelt under warranty to fix in February 2016. Had it reinstalled and my transmission man removed all the old fluid out including the torque convertor, said it was clean as a 'pin'. Did not a reset of TCM, but drove it normally and it shifted fine until-
> 
> Several weeks ago I starting getting a slight flair between 1st and 2nd under light acceleration. Then, the other evening, it started getting a slight flair between 2nd and 3rd under light acceleration. This is only after about 3,000 miles since the second rebuild of VB in February. Under heavy acceleration the flair is not noticed, only a slightly longer time for the clutch to engage the next gear, as compared with 3 to 4 and 4 to 5, etc.
> ...


If it was my car I would replace the 6 linear solenoids with new ones. I did that after the having problems with the rebuilt ones. Less than $300 from ebay seller vwpartfl. The new ones have been working good for a year now.


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

bent_rod said:


> If it was my car I would replace the 6 linear solenoids with new ones. I did that after the having problems with the rebuilt ones. Less than $300 from ebay seller vwpartfl. The new ones have been working good for a year now.


Thanks bent_rod. I'm just wondering if there's something else that's causing the VB to fail. And if not and I did buy new solenoids, is that something a shade tree mechanic like me could do by just dropping the tranny pan and not having to pull out the VB ? Or should I have my transmission shop do it ? Would the TCM have to be cleared/reset ?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

TRIBUTE100 said:


> Thanks bent_rod. I'm just wondering if there's something else that's causing the VB to fail. And if not and I did buy new solenoids, is that something a shade tree mechanic like me could do by just dropping the tranny pan and not having to pull out the VB ? Or should I have my transmission shop do it ? Would the TCM have to be cleared/reset ?


Yes you can change the solenoids. Hardest part is removing the wire plugs from the solenoid body, if they have never been off before. Make sure the replacement kit comes with instructions/directions about where the new solenoids go, if not ask the ebay seller for info. Do one at a time. They must not be mixed up. You can read back up through the old posting in this thread for much more info about solenoid replacement.
The big problem is with the original style solenoids. The magnetic coil will attract supper small particles of steel that is suspended in the ATF. This accumulates inside the solenoid armature bushings and pins. That will cause the valve to stick and bind.
Some rebuilders are installing new Teflon bushing that may be the answer to this problem. But most just ream out the old bushings and press the coil assembly back together.
If the VB rebuilder did a proper job of checking the other spool valves, accumulator pistons and made required repairs the VB should be golden.


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

bent_rod said:


> Yes you can change the solenoids. Hardest part is removing the wire plugs from the solenoid body, if they have never been off before. Make sure the replacement kit comes with instructions/directions about where the new solenoids go, if not ask the ebay seller for info. Do one at a time. They must not be mixed up. You can read back up through the old posting in this thread for much more info about solenoid replacement.
> The big problem is with the original style solenoids. The magnetic coil will attract supper small particles of steel that is suspended in the ATF. This accumulates inside the solenoid armature bushings and pins. That will cause the valve to stick and bind.
> Some rebuilders are installing new Teflon bushing that may be the answer to this problem. But most just ream out the old bushings and press the coil assembly back together.
> If the VB rebuilder did a proper job of checking the other spool valves, accumulator pistons and made required repairs the VB should be golden.


I found the new solenoids on the VwPartsFL ebay site. Doesn't mention Teflon bushings. Found another ebay seller selling just Teflon bushing for $66 for 12. Are the bushing built into the new solenoid or are they installed while putting the new solenoid into the VB ?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

TRIBUTE100 said:


> I found the new solenoids on the VwPartsFL ebay site. Doesn't mention Teflon bushings. Found another ebay seller selling just Teflon bushing for $66 for 12. Are the bushing built into the new solenoid or are they installed while putting the new solenoid into the VB ?


I have no idea what bushings are in the new solenoids. The sell said he has had much better luck using the new small can solenoids and as I said before they have been working good for me. Don't buy the Teflon bushing kit if you don't have the special Sonex solenoid tool to remove the coil from the can assembly. 
BTW it is best to clean the adapts from the computer after installing the new solenoids for best results. Also the transmission section of the computer must have NO error codes before new adapts are relearned. I highly recommend the VAG-COM Diagnostic program by Ross-Tech if you are working on your own car.
Best of luck with your project.


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## TRIBUTE100 (Oct 22, 2014)

bent_rod said:


> I have no idea what bushings are in the new solenoids. The sell said he has had much better luck using the new small can solenoids and as I said before they have been working good for me. Don't buy the Teflon bushing kit if you don't have the special Sonex solenoid tool to remove the coil from the can assembly.
> BTW it is best to clean the adapts from the computer after installing the new solenoids for best results. Also the transmission section of the computer must have NO error codes before new adapts are relearned. I highly recommend the VAG-COM Diagnostic program by Ross-Tech if you are working on your own car.
> Best of luck with your project.


Thanks bent_rod !


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## TheMysticWizard1 (Apr 9, 2010)

For all the master minds with the overwhelming amounts of information they have about these transmissions:

Is there anything inside the transmission that has to do with shift points? Is there a governor that says okay, time to shift at xxxx RPMS? Or is this purely software controlled.

I have been chasing the idea of tuning the transmission to shift later, as the 2.5L engine has potential above 5800k especially with some supporting mods.

From the handful of people I have talked to, all of which seem pretty well versed in ECU tuning, they seem to either say TCU tuning cannot be done because the transmission will not allow it or just don't seem interested in playing with the idea at all. I believe that it is an untapped market and the first person to pursue the idea will likely be able to help a lot of people and maybe make some decent money. Is the limitation all based upon the transmission components or is it purely a software thing.

I know older transmissions from other platforms could be modified to do a lot of things with simple valve body changes (hold gears to any RPM, shift only upon command, change harshness and quickness of shifts), or shift points could be changed with governor changes... I am not sure how much is computer based with these units and how much is hardware based inside the transmission.

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance!


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

TheMysticWizard1 said:


> For all the master minds with the overwhelming amounts of information they have about these transmissions:
> 
> Is there anything inside the transmission that has to do with shift points? Is there a governor that says okay, time to shift at xxxx RPMS? Or is this purely software controlled.
> 
> ...


The computer controls all shifting points based on many factors. The internal parts in the valve body have control over fine tuning the amount of line pressure and how quickly the clutches are applied. 
The TransGo shift kit includes some mods to the valve body to help restore and improve the shift performance. The rebuilding of the solenoids (by the parts included in the kit) was not the full answer me. Only after installing the new solenoids I got from ebay seller vwpartfl was the transmission restored to full normal operation.


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## rcprato (Sep 14, 2007)

Can the solenoids that can be purchased from ebay seller vwpartfl be installed without removing Valve Body from transmission?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

rcprato said:


> Can the solenoids that can be purchased from ebay seller vwpartfl be installed without removing Valve Body from transmission?


I was able to install the solenoid valves without removing the valve body on my 09G. The electrical plugs can be hard to remove from the solenoids.
I first installed the TransGo shift kit that required complete disassembly of the valve body. I also had to do three fluid changes before I could see good pink fluid. The TransGo kit did do some good but the complete fix was to replace the solenoids with the new small can ones.
Best of Luck


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## VW09Rabbit (Oct 6, 2016)

Looking for a little insight as my transmission behaviours are a little different then other here.

The car is 2009 VW Rabbit with 160,000km (100,000miles) with the KGL transmission.

We've owned the car for a year and purchased it knowing about the 09G issues but during the test drive I did not notice any issues. Shortly after purchase started to notice some bumps down shifting from third to second. Flushed the transmission fluid 3 times, thanks to this website... I did use Toyota Type-IV fluid instead of the expensive VW fluid. The bump seemed to be better for a number of months, but lately we are starting to see new problems.

Problem 1: only happens when cold (shortly after starting to drive) come to a stop (ie stop sign) and then step on the gas and the engine revs (ie not in gear), the gear will usually grab within a couple seconds and we'll squeal off. Once warm this has not happened

Problem 2: Coming to a abrupt stop and then accelerating before completely stopping the transmission does not seem to be in gear. Once again will grab after a couple seconds. If I do come to a complete stop there is a big bang almost feels like I have been rear ended sometimes... This issue seems to have been in a few threads I've read.

When either of these issues happen there has been no burned clutch or other smell.

I have checked the transmission fluid level using an thermo-couple on the pan and it seems good.

The Mrs is getting uncomfortable driving the car now and it is something that we need to get fixed.

I've been looking at valve bodies, re-manufacturer VW or Sonnax. But I've also been able to source a used transmission with <25,000miles for a cheaper price. I assume any valve body from another KGL transmission will work fine? Is there anything else that I might want to investigate before moving forward?

Thanks for the help!


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## Otisarcade (Oct 20, 2016)

Just brought my 06 rabbit into a shop this guy is a master tech worked at aamaco for 30 yrs. He told me it needed torque converter, rebuild kit, new valve body. Got the valve body from dealership so I'm hoping it will be enough to solve the issues. Does oem valve body have the updates installed already? I would hope it does since it is oem. Super expensive parts so the piece of mind will be nice.


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## deluxman (Jul 21, 2011)

Otisarcade said:


> Just brought my 06 rabbit into a shop this guy is a master tech worked at aamaco for 30 yrs. He told me it needed torque converter, rebuild kit, new valve body. Got the valve body from dealership so I'm hoping it will be enough to solve the issues. Does oem valve body have the updates installed already? I would hope it does since it is oem. Super expensive parts so the piece of mind will be nice.


From some other forums I read ,the OEM valve body does not come with upgraded selenoid so down the road, you may experience the shift shock again but don't quote me on this, just base on the reading I did. However, according to most tranmission shops, they do not recommend buying rebuild valve body as they said that at least 5-6 out of 10 have issues, so we are better off buying brand new from dealer. So I also ended up buying new from dealer.


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## VW09Rabbit (Oct 6, 2016)

VW09Rabbit said:


> Looking for a little insight as my transmission behaviours are a little different then other here.
> 
> The car is 2009 VW Rabbit with 160,000km (100,000miles) with the KGL transmission.
> 
> ...



Just to update everyone, I did end up purchasing a donor 09G KGL transmission that had 34,000km on it. After reviewing what was involved in the transmission swap and the weather forecast (getting too cold to be comfortable laying on the driveway for hours), I decided to just swap the valve bodies for the time being. 

There has not be any change in problem 2 (which is easy to reproduce), I have not had problem 1 happen yet but it could just need to right conditions.

I had the battery unplugged for an hour or so hoping to clear the TCM.

I did end up using Toyota T-IV ATF again, I noticed the donor transmission's fluid looked purple. Maybe the fluid is my issue and I should stop being so cheap since now I've invested way more then just using the correct fluid.

Any other ideas?


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## RAEGLATEM (Sep 22, 2011)

Well, add another 09G with shifting flairs and abrupt jerks that feel like you're getting rear ended.

My issues started about 4 weeks ago with just under 118,000miles. Had local mechanic flush the ATF, swap filter and gasket. Claims that when he did I was low on fluid (so much for lifetime fluid).

Got the car back and thought all was well for a solid 10 days. Then last night same problem. The one thing I did notice though is that the weather warmed up again considerably last night and this morning. 

Really would love to not get into car payments again but I also don't want to dive into a rabbit hole of transmission repairs. Has anyone found the concrete way of resolving these transmission issues?


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## Otisarcade (Oct 20, 2016)

deluxman said:


> From some other forums I read ,the OEM valve body does not come with upgraded selenoid so down the road, you may experience the shift shock again but don't quote me on this, just base on the reading I did. However, according to most tranmission shops, they do not recommend buying rebuild valve body as they said that at least 5-6 out of 10 have issues, so we are better off buying brand new from dealer. So I also ended up buying new from dealer.


Well after a long process replaced torque converter, valve body and the clutches. This tranny guy is ocd and bought clutches just incase and didnt charge for them and he also bought a wire harness free of charge. Paid a good ole 3k And you are exactly right about him not wanting to buy a rebuilt VB, the first VB from VW was faulty. The second one was a charm which fixed my 2-3, 3-4 flare as well as the hard 1-2 shift and rough down shifts/ bangs. If was definitely the VB. Only thing I'm having issues with is 1-2 still can be a little rough sometimes, I read some ppl say the adapt process could take a little while. But sometimes with the perfect amount of throttle, it shifts into 2nd smooth. It has gotten a bit better as far as the rough feeling from 1-2 since I have got the car back about 12 days ago. But still its not perfect it needs to be, too much $$ spent.
I don'k think the adapt process was completed correctly so I am hoping it just needs the tcm and throttle body reset and all that then driven for a bit to relearn shift points. I found an actual procedure to re learn shift points and some steps say to complete up to 50 times, so I will give it another 2 weeks and if its the same Ill have to fork out another 200 maybe, I bet the dealership would charge a fortune. They quoted me 350 for a tranny service.

If this reset doesn't work then I will have to bring back to original tranny guy to try adjusting one the clutch solenoid for 1-2. One interesting thing I have noticed is its not as snappy and responsive as it was before i had this rebuilt. Maybe I am imagining things it isn't as loud either when you step on it. It's odd. So that tells me its could be the throttle body adapt and shift points. Or something else that needs resetting. Battery was disconnected for about 5 days. Had to have somebody come flash the steering wheel code, the tranny guy's Snap On touch screen machine couldn't do it! Surprisingly! I HOPE it is and i hope that I can save a trip to a dealer by finding a shop who has the VAG COM. 

What a process thanks vw for this mechanical madman 09G and crazy electronic systems my gosh.


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## ohfive2pointfive (Oct 20, 2016)

I'm probably looking into buying a VB for my wifes 05.5 (new body) jetta. 2.5 it drives perfect just sometimes going from 3rd to 4th it slips like in neutral then slams into 4th. all other gears are fine and it only does it every now and again. The car only has 101k miles. Any advice? or which vb to buy? any tips appreciated!


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

deluxman said:


> From some other forums I read ,the OEM valve body does not come with upgraded selenoid so down the road, you may experience the shift shock again but don't quote me on this, just base on the reading I did. However, according to most tranmission shops, they do not recommend buying rebuild valve body as they said that at least 5-6 out of 10 have issues, so we are better off buying brand new from dealer. So I also ended up buying new from dealer.


Did the dealer say it was ''new'', or was it a reconditioned one from VW? In early 2014 my dealer said VW no longer has new ones, only reconditioned (hence why they took my old one back and did the whole core change thing). They did still have whole new transmissions for $7k. I paid a little under $1000 for a VW reconditioned VB from a Nor Cal dealer. The parts guy wasn't super sharp, so it may have been a new one and he was confused and making things up. All I know is that it works.


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## ohfive2pointfive (Oct 20, 2016)

SNS1938 said:


> Did the dealer say it was ''new'', or was it a reconditioned one from VW? In early 2014 my dealer said VW no longer has new ones, only reconditioned (hence why they took my old one back and did the whole core change thing). They did still have whole new transmissions for $7k. I paid a little under $1000 for a VW reconditioned VB from a Nor Cal dealer. The parts guy wasn't super sharp, so it may have been a new one and he was confused and making things up. All I know is that it works.


My wifes car is at the shop right now, we went with Ream Man with the sonnax updates. He says he has a proprietary rebuild process of the solenoids so they don't fail and his valvebodies come with a lifetime warranty.


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## SNS1938 (Jan 13, 2014)

ohfive2pointfive said:


> My wifes car is at the shop right now, we went with Ream Man with the sonnax updates. He says he has a proprietary rebuild process of the solenoids so they don't fail and his valvebodies come with a lifetime warranty.


Cool, will be interesting to see what your impressions are once done. Given the factory one lasted you 101,000 miles, and the new one is improved, you should hopefully make it well past 200,000 miles until this needs doing again.


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## ohfive2pointfive (Oct 20, 2016)

SNS1938 said:


> Cool, will be interesting to see what your impressions are once done. Given the factory one lasted you 101,000 miles, and the new one is improved, you should hopefully make it well past 200,000 miles until this needs doing again.


That's the plan. On Sonnax's website it says to expect shifts to be worse before they get better. After driving it right after being done it only had a slightly hard downshift from 4 to 3 and a couple times from 5 to 4. but all the other shifting was fine. Wife said the car drove great today, no hiccups.


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## heywier427 (Dec 23, 2009)

Hey Guys,

Cant read all 18 pages, but can pick up a golf for almost free with all the 09g problems (110k).

What if I just dont do anything? How long do you think the trans will last with all the funky shifting/slipping/ banging bullsh!t?

Just wondering. 

Fully mechanically inclined, and can probably fix it/swap valvebody/tcm. Just lazy, and need a beater. And almost free is a good beater price 

How long will it limp along if I just keep flushing the trans fluid after I do the filter?

Thanks.


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## slothlovechunk (Feb 3, 2017)

I am adding my experience with troubleshooting the 09G
I have a 2011 sportwagen with the 2.5 and the 09G. I bought the car recently with 70k on it. Ive had what sounds like fairly typical issues with the car, but the transmission issues are the ones that worry me the most. I'm a manual trans guy, but liked the sportwagen and have a growing family. So I settled. Maybe I should have done more research. 
Anyway... I feel I have some valuable info that might help someone else that is having shifting issues and likes doing their own work.

First, get a Vag Com cable. Its worth it. 
My car was getting P0171 system too lean and P0106 MAP sensor codes. I cleared the codes and they would just come back. The dealer replaced the map sensor before I brought the car home but that didn't fix it. After doing some research, I found that those codes can be caused by the pcv system letting a little bit of oil into the intake. Other posts suggested cleaning the map sensor, throttle body, and intake. I used the method recommended on another forum where you take the throttle body off, clean that, pull the sensor, clean that, and use a clean dry rag and a stick to clean out the intake. There wasn't much oil in there. It wasn't a pool or anything substantial, really just a residue. I figured that cant be it, but the code hasn't come back, and its been about 5 months. That improved the feel of the shifting quite a bit. The cars response felt more connected to my foot now. But the downshifts in traffic still sucked. 

on to the next issue...

Occasionally at a stop or just pulling away from stopped the car started to feel like it was disengaging the gear it was in. Not slipping, more like a stutter. It was random and only once in a while. Then I started noticing oil drops on the garage floor and thought I should have kept my 01 Golf. I pulled the airbox engine cover off and the source of the oil leak was pretty clear. The valve cover gasket wasn't doing its job anymore. I ordered a new valve cover since it has the integrated pcv and was likely the cause of the previous two codes. Those still haven't come back at this point. When I pulled the coil on plug coils, two of them were swimming in oil. Which is probably the cause of the miss. Cleaned those, replaced the valve cover and gasket, replaced spark plugs, put it all back together and the oil leak is resolved.

The shifting still feels odd to me and has a harsh downshift in multiple gears and harsh up shift to second. Doing a trans relearn helped but didn't fix it. So I ordered a new valve body from RevMax. I installed that. Just a note, the trans in my car does have a fill hole on the front. Its under a big torx bolt to the left of the electrical connector. The trans shifts nice 98% of the time now. The other 2 percent could still be a misfire. Its a big misfire when it happens. feels like my foot slipped of the clutch for a fraction of a second. Accept my car sadly doesn't have a clutch pedal. Ive been monitoring it with vag com but haven't caught it on the graph yet. The misfires it does catch is not consistently the same cylinder, so yesterday I ordered 5 new coils. Those show up this Monday. If its not a misfire Im feeling then its the trans. It does it most often on down shift to 3rd of 4th while coming to a stop. It has done it once at a complete stop with my foot on the brake, which makes me think its a misfire. Its big, not like some of the others, made my butt pucker a bit. It hasn't happened while Ive had the computer connected.

Ill update you on how it feels after the new coils go in. Worst case its a cam chain problem or a trans problem. 
Car-part.com has used transmissions with low miles for $500. I really hope it doesn't get to that point!


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## heywier427 (Dec 23, 2009)

Well I lucked out!

Got the car for almost nothing, as it wouldnt start, and had "transmission issues".

Changed the crank sensor, and it starts. Changed the trans fluid/filter, and it shift like new.

Pretty sure trans was just low, as not a whole lot came out. Fluid was black. No tint of red. Viscosity of water. Very little on the magnets, nothing in the filter.

Ive only done the first fluid change and it shifts great. 2-3 more with cans of trans seafoam, and I expect it to be good as new!

Hurray!


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

I have a 2008 Passat 4MO VR6 and am having a hard shift from 2-3. 1-2 isn't great. Its been like this for sometime, but I don't put a ton of miles on the vehicle. I'm looking into just doing the solenoids to see if that fixes the issue first. Are the solenoids the same between the 09M and the 09G? 
I have already tried relearning the adaptive shift via VAGCOM and that did help for awhile but now it is back to being rough. I have a little under 80,000 miles and I'm sure the fluid has never been changed.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.


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## heywier427 (Dec 23, 2009)

^ Change the fluid/filter is the obvious start, and go from there. Min of 3 flushes to clear it up (3 gallons of fluid/2-3 bottle of a trans cleaner).

If that doesnt work, then you can start researching solenoid compatibility.


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## Chris Deslattes (Mar 11, 2017)

I had the same problem on a 2007 2.5. I fixed it by adjusting shift cables. Bust first you must lock tranny in home position. Then pull spring locks on the cables. Go in vehicle and lock shifter in home position, go back to tranny and pull slack out of each cable And release spring locks. Take tranny out of home position and shifter out of home position, then cycle trough all gears. Should fix problem. Will try to post video


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## Chris Deslattes (Mar 11, 2017)

This should help yall understand the posses https://youtu.be/sheTKD03hmo


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## halbwissen (Jul 20, 2001)

Chris Deslattes said:


> I had the same problem on a 2007 2.5. I fixed it by adjusting shift cables. Bust first you must lock tranny in home position. Then pull spring locks on the cables. Go in vehicle and lock shifter in home position, go back to tranny and pull slack out of each cable And release spring locks. Take tranny out of home position and shifter out of home position, then cycle trough all gears. Should fix problem. Will try to post video





Chris Deslattes said:


> This should help yall understand the posses https://youtu.be/sheTKD03hmo


This thread is for the 09G 6-speed automatic transmission, not the 0A4 5-speed manual.


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

heywier427 said:


> ^ Change the fluid/filter is the obvious start, and go from there. Min of 3 flushes to clear it up (3 gallons of fluid/2-3 bottle of a trans cleaner).
> 
> If that doesnt work, then you can start researching solenoid compatibility.


Any suggestions on fluid to run since it will ultimately be thrown away?


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## slothlovechunk (Feb 3, 2017)

An update to my cars situation. The misfires are fixed with the new coils. The trans is fine most of the time, it does still do something odd once in a while when stopped. I can get it to do it once in a while by flipping the lever from drive to tiptronic mode while stipped and holding the brake. I have no idea what its doing when I do that but sometimes you can feel something happen. 
Driving in stop and go traffic is when I feel most of the issues. Its like it is trying to predict the brake vs gas pedal and gets it wrong once in a while. I might just be over critical as I am used to driving a manual trans. I wish I could drive someone elses car with the same trans to see if theirs does the same thing. I might have to do some test drives this summer if I can find any with this trans. 
I really like the car, but hate this auto trans. I wish more people would buy new manuals so I could buy them used.


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## jrob8802 (Mar 29, 2017)

*question*



bent_rod said:


> First remove the electrical connectors on the six solenoids. For me this is the hard part. My method requires a small flat bade screwdriver to push under the release tab and to pull on the plug with forceps. If you happen to break a retainer clip on a plug, Sonnax makes retainer clip replacements. http://d2q1ebiag300ih.cloudfront.net/uploads/instruction/file/723/59947-60-IN.pdf
> Remove the bolts on the two retainer bars that hold the keeper pins for the solenoids and then remove pins. Keep an eye out for the pins you don't lose any when removing the bars. Remove old sol valves one by one and replace with new ones. As I recall the bolts that hold the retainer bars don't reach down into the valve body, so no torque wrench is when tightening the bolts. But the value in the ATSG manual is given as 62 in.lb. for the bracket bolts. Make sure to get all the plugs connected to the correct solenoids and all the wires routed correctly. A very good idea is to take some photos before removing any parts.
> Some people have been able to get by without a reset of the computer adapts others don't. If you have read all the posts above you know what I'm talking about.
> Here is the replacement solenoid identification info given to me by eBay seller VwPartsFL.
> ...


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## trgfunds (Jan 8, 2004)

I posted this under a separate post, but I'll say it here too. This just happened with my 09G. Thank god I didn't go down the transmission teardown path. I honestly think these transmissions get torn into when they don't even need to be. Electronics are everything on these cars.

Just wanted to share this with the community. I had intermittent rough shifting on a 2013 2.5 SE Jetta 09G automatic. Car has 99k miles. The wrench light would come on and the gear indicator would disappear. The car was not throwing any codes. This went on for about a week. The transmission would shift fine most of the time but under some conditions after driving for a while it would suddenly revert to what I guess is "limp home" or "BASIC" mode and shift like crap. There were no other symptoms. The engine appeared to be running fine. Finally I got a P0106 code "MAP sensor - implausable signal" - Long story short, the MAP sensor was getting sprayed with oil into the intake due to the failing PCV valve diaphragm. Volkswagen designed this PCV system as an integrated part of the valve cover and does not sell the PCV valve alone. The official "fix" is to replace the entire valve cover. I didn't want to do this yet so I have done an aftermarket fix using the Dorman PCV diaphragm replacement part. Cleared codes and car is fine. My guess is that when the engine computer is missing a critical parameter it throws the transmission into basic mode. You can find the dorman part at any auto parts store (30 bucks) or just replace the entire valve cover (150 bucks). Either way, lesson learned, if you have this mystery transmission problem, it may be the result of something entirely different. PCV valve is known to be an issue on these cars, so if you do have higher mileage, even with no codes, and an intermittent rough shifting issue, try this.


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## philbrian (May 23, 2017)

Why does this problem only occur when the trans fluid is hot? Is there a cheap solution to this problem such as adding an additive to the trans fluid to keep it cooler? 
Eg Lucas Stop Slip
Anyone tried and succeeded?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

philbrian said:


> Why does this problem only occur when the trans fluid is hot? Is there a cheap solution to this problem such as adding an additive to the trans fluid to keep it cooler?
> Eg Lucas Stop Slip
> Anyone tried and succeeded?


No easy fix after the fact. Some have reported not having the problem or extended the time before the problem occurs by changing the ATF every 30K miles or less.


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## PowerslavePA (Dec 9, 2014)

Almost 70,000 on mine, I get shift chatter/slipping at WOT gear 1-2, and 2-3.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

PowerslavePA said:


> Almost 70,000 on mine, I get shift chatter/slipping at WOT gear 1-2, and 2-3.


Have you changed the ATF, using factory recommended fluid?


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## rainor94 (Oct 24, 2013)

*2009 Passat Automatic Transmission problems*

Last Thursday the transmission oil cooler started leaking and to replace it would have taken over a week so the mechanic closed off the oil lines leading to it. (Just so the car could be used without leaking oil over the long weekend here in Canada). The mechanic also filled the transmission back up with not oem transmission oil. 

Yesterday I picked the car back up and it was running fine at first. As the day went by though the transmission started shifting harder and wouldn't stay in 6th gear on the highway unless I put it in manual mode and shifted up myself (it would drop to 5th gear while going 100 km/h). 

Today things got worse as while driving the car will no longer immediately accelerate when pressing the gas. Revs will build and the transmission will randomly catch and move the car. The display in the dash says that the gear selected is always the 5th gear even from a standstill. So it seems like it's stuck in 5th gear. The car is also showing the engine light now with the p0731 code.


Could these issues have been started because of overheating from removing the transmission oil cooler or the not oem transmission fluid? What is likely wrong with the transmission and could it be repaired? The transmission oil cooler is on the way as well. It wasn't installed while it was at the mechanic since none were available locally or with fast shipping. 





Also already tried resetting the TCM (removing fuse and reinserting it) and noticed no difference. We also ran the car without the fuse inserted and noticed no difference.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

rainor94 said:


> Last Thursday the transmission oil cooler started leaking and to replace it would have taken over a week so the mechanic closed off the oil lines leading to it. (Just so the car could be used without leaking oil over the long weekend here in Canada). The mechanic also filled the transmission back up with not oem transmission oil.
> Yesterday I picked the car back up and it was running fine at first. As the day went by though the transmission started shifting harder and wouldn't stay in 6th gear on the highway unless I put it in manual mode and shifted up myself (it would drop to 5th gear while going 100 km/h).
> Today things got worse as while driving the car will no longer immediately accelerate when pressing the gas. Revs will build and the transmission will randomly catch and move the car. The display in the dash says that the gear selected is always the 5th gear even from a standstill. So it seems like it's stuck in 5th gear. The car is also showing the engine light now with the p0731 code.
> Could these issues have been started because of overheating from removing the transmission oil cooler or the not oem transmission fluid? What is likely wrong with the transmission and could it be repaired? The transmission oil cooler is on the way as well. It wasn't installed while it was at the mechanic since none were available locally or with fast shipping.
> Also already tried resetting the TCM (removing fuse and reinserting it) and noticed no difference. We also ran the car without the fuse inserted and noticed no difference.


I think you need a different mechanic. Closing off the cooling system lines is BAD. Using unapproved ATF in this transmission is BAD. 
Stop driving that car now and have it taken to a reliable transmission repair shop that knows how to work on VW transmissions.


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

Any clue if there is any difference in these? I have ordered stuff from vwpartfl before, but the first one is a bit less money.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmission-Trans-Solenoid-TF60SN-09G-09D-09M-TR60SN-for-VW-Audi-Mini/262533000452?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Mini-Transmission-Trans-Solenoid-TF60SN-09G-09D-09M-TR60SN-n93-n92-n282/261490036434?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

SccrMan13 said:


> Any clue if there is any difference in these? I have ordered stuff from vwpartfl before, but the first one is a bit less money.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmission-Trans-Solenoid-TF60SN-09G-09D-09M-TR60SN-for-VW-Audi-Mini/262533000452?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Mini-Transmission-Trans-Solenoid-TF60SN-09G-09D-09M-TR60SN-n93-n92-n282/261490036434?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649


Interesting many more choices now, all look the same, but never used any except the ones sold by vwpartfi.
This one with filter & gasket: 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmissio...-N92-N282-With-Filter-Gasket-Kit/131899786901


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

bent_rod said:


> Interesting many more choices now, all look the same, but never used any except the ones sold by vwpartfi.
> This one with filter & gasket:
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Transmissio...-N92-N282-With-Filter-Gasket-Kit/131899786901


Went with the ones sold by vwpartfl since the listing said 09M. Got it all ripped apart and was wondering on the order of the solenoids provided.

From left to right I went, Big one, grey, yellow, yellow, black, black. Not sure if that is correct, but I have a couple days to fix it if needed since the drain plug was messed up so I'm ordering a new pan, bolt, stovepipe? and washers.


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

*Fixed my 09M*

Big thanks to bent_rod. 

I got my 09M transmission all back together. Used the solenoid order from my previous post. Got the small can solenoids, gasket, filter, and some other parts from vwpartsfl on ebay. He is a great ebayer with wonderful communication. I ended up having to get a new pan, pipe, and plug/washer from vwpartfl after my original plug was rusted closed. I used Valvoline MaxLife Full Synthetic ATF. It was reasonably priced and I have not had any slipping. The Passat feels like a new car and its nice to move on to other things. I will change the fluid out again in the fall. Its really not a bad process if you have VCDS.

I have a tip on getting the plugs off. I used two tiny screwdrivers. One was prying the clip up from the end where the wires go in and the other I used to twist and push the plug out of the clip.


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## smg64ct203 (Jan 26, 2003)

*2007 beetle*

Car had 99k on it, the transmission shifted great when cold. Once the car gets hot second gear was gone so it banged hard going from 1st to 3rd. I had a few shops look at it and was told I needed a new tranny. Found a car with a few thousand miles less. Had it replaced and it runs and shifts great.

Are these units junk, I wonder how long this unit will last?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

smg64ct203 said:


> Car had 99k on it, the transmission shifted great when cold. Once the car gets hot second gear was gone so it banged hard going from 1st to 3rd. I had a few shops look at it and was told I needed a new tranny. Found a car with a few thousand miles less. Had it replaced and it runs and shifts great. Are these units junk, I wonder how long this unit will last?


It is my belief the transmissions are good. The problem is with VW not requiring an ATF change every 30K miles. Also the first production years for the 09G the large can shift solenoids were poorly made. 
The same I have found with a lot of other OEM VW parts, poor quality. Good german engineering but the quality went away with poor parts.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

Jetta 2.5 2006 owner here. Recently had my transmission rebuilt due to a slipping problem (165k KM, previous owner never changed the oil, was burned and plates, clutches, etc were burned too). The mechanic changed all the steels and plates, changed the oil, filter and gasket, cleaned the valve body and everything perfect, except for 1 thing: When switching to D (from P or N) the car does a big jerk with a slight delay after engaging the D in the gear shift (like half a second), what could be causing this? Mechanic said the valve body is in good condition, however seems like a solenoid sticking, could this be true? besides that, the car shifts perfectly between gears from 1 to 6 in D, S and Tiptronic.﻿


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexplay said:


> Jetta 2.5 2006 owner here. Recently had my transmission rebuilt due to a slipping problem (165k KM, previous owner never changed the oil, was burned and plates, clutches, etc were burned too). The mechanic changed all the steels and plates, changed the oil, filter and gasket, cleaned the valve body and everything perfect, except for 1 thing: When switching to D (from P or N) the car does a big jerk with a slight delay after engaging the D in the gear shift (like half a second), what could be causing this? Mechanic said the valve body is in good condition, however seems like a solenoid sticking, could this be true? besides that, the car shifts perfectly between gears from 1 to 6 in D, S and Tiptronic.﻿


My transmission had the same problem with the delay between P/N to D and a little bump, but only the first time in the morning. The is after having the valve body rebuilt. The new solenoids fixed that problem. After over a year of driving I have noticed just a very little delay has come back but never a bump. Other than that the transmission has shifted very good. 
I would buy a new set of 09G solenoids from vwpartfl on ebay and have them installed. Not that expensive of a job compared to what you have already spent. 
Not a sure fix but others have had success with the new solenoids.


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

bent_rod said:


> My transmission had the same problem with the delay between P/N to D and a little bump, but only the first time in the morning. The is after having the valve body rebuilt. The new solenoids fixed that problem. After over a year of driving I have noticed just a very little delay has come back but never a bump. Other than that the transmission has shifted very good.
> I would buy a new set of 09G solenoids from vwpartfl on ebay and have them installed. Not that expensive of a job compared to what you have already spent.
> Not a sure fix but others have had success with the new solenoids.


I will second that. I did the solenoid change with new filter and one fluid change and I'm amazed at the difference it made. Its wonderful driving around a car and not even feeling it shift. I plan on swapping fluid out one more time this fall then again in the spring so it will be mostly good stuff. Amazon has 6qt of the Valvoline that I used for $36.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

SccrMan13 said:


> I will second that. I did the solenoid change with new filter and one fluid change and I'm amazed at the difference it made. Its wonderful driving around a car and not even feeling it shift. I plan on swapping fluid out one more time this fall then again in the spring so it will be mostly good stuff. Amazon has 6qt of the Valvoline that I used for $36.


It took 4 changes of ATF to get my 09G fluid looking good. I recommend you get that old ATF out of the system as soon as possible. 
If you are using Valvoline MaxLife ATF it can be found at Walmart in the 5 qt bottle. Online and free shipping to your local store, $17.87.


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

bent_rod said:


> It took 4 changes of ATF to get my 09G fluid looking good. I recommend you get that old ATF out of the system as soon as possible.
> If you are using Valvoline MaxLife ATF it can be found at Walmart in the 5 qt bottle. Online and free shipping to your local store, $17.87.


Thanks for the heads up on the walmart price. I plan on swapping that fluid out again this week while I'm doing my front suspension refresh. 
I have a a tiny flair between 2-3 or 3-4 (can't remember) that I'm hoping will get worked out once the fluid is improved. Luckily my car doesn't see a ton of miles, but I'll definitely get that fluid swapped a couple more times this fall.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

A lot of good information in this thread, although I skimmed some of the pages. I am going to dig into mine tomorrow. My wife's former '09 CC 2.0T 09g is up to 170k Miles. and all of the sudden seems to slip like crazy in 1st and will not shift properly.

Just as a point of reference, I have been a mechanic in some form all my life and that "no need to change the oil" is a load of crap. I learned that on my Lincoln LS with the Gertag and after 120k VB pistons were worn through etc. So, I changed trans oil and filter religiously every 30-40k since the day we bought the CC new. The very first service, I used Fuchs ATF, but only used factory VW ATF from that point on. The car was never beat on and bone stock (it was my wife's). My son started driving it a few months ago since he turned 16, so I am sure he was not as gentle, but my wife did claim that before she gave it up, the trans started doing some "weird things". The other night, the CEL came on and he barely made it home.

I am going to pull it apart, but I don't know what to expect and worried it is more than shift solenoids. I went to drive it today to see for myself and it was slipping like mad in 1st to 2. In fact, it seems like a manual trans with a wiped out clutch. I used manual shift and it was better, but definitely much worse than I expected. The boy said it came on quick and did not keep in the gas when it started revving...

I Have VAG-Com and the codes thrown were:

17115 - Gear 1
P0731 - 003 Incorrect Ratio - Intermittent - MIL On

00453 - Function Limitation due to Over-Temperature

I am hoping that it is a TCC or other solenoid(s), but worried the TC is toasted. I guess we shall see based on what I find in the pan. I didn't want to pull the VB, but will if I need to in order to inspect hard parts.

I have rebuilt Valve Bodies and shift kits, and other more complex repairs in various Auto trans prior, and I recently completely rebuilt and beefed up my Dodge 46RE Auto Trans. I was hoping it was my last auto trans repair...

Any words of wisdom will be gladly accepted.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

sdezego said:


> My son started driving it a few months ago since he turned 16, so I am sure he was not as gentle,
> 17115 - Gear 1
> P0731 - 003 Incorrect Ratio - Intermittent - MIL On
> 00453 - Function Limitation due to Over-Temperature


Something is slipping, as you say TC or could be low pump pressure. Think I would put gauges on it before dropping the pan. 
I have rebuilt three Ford automatics, two had bad shifts (not slipping) they each had good frictions and metals, clutch packs measured close to new. One of the cars had over 200K on it. The fix was to rebuild the valve body. The other one had coolant in ATF because of a defective heat exchanger pipe in the radiator. The torque converter clutch facing was broken into small pieces plugging up the transmission filter. Everything had to be replaced in that one. 
" Function Limitation" sounds like limp mode to me. 
New driver, 16 years old, ha ha. When I was 17 driving a 4 speed manual I ripped out first and second and then the rear end gears broke. This was in the first year of driving. If the car had been an automatic it would not have lasted 6 months.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

bent_rod said:


> Something is slipping, as you say TC or could be low pump pressure. Think I would put gauges on it before dropping the pan.
> I have rebuilt three Ford automatics, two had bad shifts (not slipping) they each had good frictions and metals, clutch packs measured close to new. One of the cars had over 200K on it. The fix was to rebuild the valve body. The other one had coolant in ATF because of a defective heat exchanger pipe in the radiator. The torque converter clutch facing was broken into small pieces plugging up the transmission filter. Everything had to be replaced in that one.
> " Function Limitation" sounds like limp mode to me.
> New driver, 16 years old, ha ha. When I was 17 driving a 4 speed manual I ripped out first and second and then the rear end gears broke. This was in the first year of driving. If the car had been an automatic it would not have lasted 6 months.


LOL, yea...

I was actually thinking about doing this (checking pressure) just to see, but need to figure that out. I think that I ran across it on previous pages. Bentley is useless on Trouble Shooting the trans...

Agree that it went into limp mode. I did reset codes before test driving but did not reset adaptation.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

I remembered that I have the VW 09g Study guide, so just reading through that. Interesting that I did come across this:

Solenoid Valve 2 N89 works as an on/off
solenoid valve and opens or closes an ATF
channel. When Solenoid Valve 2 N89 is on
and open, ATF pressure on the torque
converter lock-up clutch is increased.

Effect of Signal Failure
If the signal to Solenoid Valve 1 N89 fails,
the torque converter lock-up clutch can no
longer be pressurized to the maximum ATF
pressure and “engine braking” is not
possible.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

sdezego said:


> LOL, yea...
> 
> I was actually thinking about doing this (checking pressure) just to see, but need to figure that out. I think that I ran across it on previous pages. Bentley is useless on Trouble Shooting the trans...
> 
> Agree that it went into limp mode. I did reset codes before test driving but did not reset adaptation.




Get this, ATSG VW / AUDI 09G 09M TRANSMISSION SERVICE MANUAL. What I used to rebuild with. It has expected pressure for line and clutch packs. 

Good video of the 09G rebuild: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hiram+gutierrez+09g+valve+body+rebuild

The N89 and N88 sol valves are open or closed type. Most of the time they keeps on working when the modulated ones start to act up . Would think you should see some codes like this, 00260 solenoid valve 2 ( N89 ) sporadic open circuit, 00652 gear monitoring sporadic implausible signal, Solenoid (N89) is not responding. Would be a bad solenoid or harness inside the trans.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Thanks. I have used the ASTG for Ford and Dodge rebuilds, will get the one for the 09g.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

My thought was maybe the solenoid is not bad electrically, but that not properly controlling flow to the TCC due to debris or what not.

Anyway. I have a set of gauges on the way as I needed a set anyway.

Interesting development though. I went out today with VCDS and was going to reset the TCM adaptation just for grins, and checked pending codes from last rese. Now, I see a new pending code and this was not present on last reset when the car threw the CEL.

17105 - Trans Output Speed Sensor (G195)
P0721 - 008 - Implausible signal - Intermittent


Now I am wondering if this could be the whole cause. Again, the onset seemed to be out of nowhere, so a TC Failure, seems that there would have been something catastrophic and noticeable, but then again remember I am dealing with a 16yr old to relay to me what happened and when LOL.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Another update:

Reset Codes as well as the Function Limitation code (don't think that got reset prev).

Took for test drive and slip 1-2, but does finally lock up with increased RPM. Manual shift seems better.


17105 - Trans Output Speed Sensor (G195)
P0721 - 008 - Implausible signal - Intermittent

Came back. Obviously a problem there.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Found this: 
Sensor for Gear output speed -G195
Implausible signal
- Open circuit or short circuit to earth or positive
- Check wiring and connectors

Also slipping in 1 & 2 could be low line pressure, need to check.
Some say drop the pan, flush, and refill. See what old ATF looks like.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

bent_rod said:


> Found this:
> Sensor for Gear output speed -G195
> Implausible signal
> - Open circuit or short circuit to earth or positive
> ...


Awesome thanks. I need to clarify, the slip seemed more start to 1st. i.e. lockup, but didn't drive it that much. Definitely an issue with lock up because getting it on ramps was sketchy... Needed to bring RPMs up before lockup. This was in D. I am not going to rush into it, so may wait until gauges show up, but "May" drop pan in the mean time.

After resetting TCM though the lockup in 1st was almost driveable once RPM was brought up where as before, it was like driving a manual with a wiped out clutch... egg shell foot to get to speed.

To re-iterate, I have changed oil and filter pretty much about every 40k, so I would hope that maintenance has paid off in VB wear and metallic build up in Solenoids and what not, but....


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

sdezego said:


> Awesome thanks. I need to clarify, the slip seemed more start to 1st. i.e. lockup, but didn't drive it that much. Definitely an issue with lock up because getting it on ramps was sketchy... Needed to bring RPMs up before lockup. This was in D. I am not going to rush into it, so may wait until gauges show up, but "May" drop pan in the mean time.
> 
> After resetting TCM though the lockup in 1st was almost driveable once RPM was brought up where as before, it was like driving a manual with a wiped out clutch... egg shell foot to get to speed.
> 
> To re-iterate, I have changed oil and filter pretty much about every 40k, so I would hope that maintenance has paid off in VB wear and metallic build up in Solenoids and what not, but....


I have seen reports of problems with the solenoid valves even when the ATF has been changed every 30K.
Dropping the pan will tell you a lot.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

bent_rod said:


> My transmission had the same problem with the delay between P/N to D and a little bump, but only the first time in the morning. The is after having the valve body rebuilt. The new solenoids fixed that problem. After over a year of driving I have noticed just a very little delay has come back but never a bump. Other than that the transmission has shifted very good.
> I would buy a new set of 09G solenoids from vwpartfl on ebay and have them installed. Not that expensive of a job compared to what you have already spent.
> Not a sure fix but others have had success with the new solenoids.


Continuing with my story, I bought the complete solenoid kit (large canister ones) from SINS in amazon.

The mechanic installed them and then I proceeded to test drive it on the weekend, however now the car shifts like a manual transmission, that is, a slight decrease in RPMs then shift to the next gear. Also the bump when engaging R is still present. I took it to another mechanic to get a second opinion and he said that the bump was due to my transmission mounts being worn out (I already knew that, my current mechanic told me they were worn out, but not that this was related to the bump). I'm skeptical about the bump being related to a bad transmission mount, because this doesn't happen always, sometimes the bump is not even noticeable.

Also, shortly after doing the solenoid swap, I got the dreaded PRNDS lights (hadn't had any fault codes since the tranny rebuild), he scanned it and G195 Implausible, P0771 (N92) came up, he said it was probably due to the sensor being covered in oil / shortcircuiting, so I left it to him to figure it out and also to try and solve that bump and weird shifting.

Related also, seems to happen when the car is hot (before and after the solenoid swap), the car seems to skip the 3rd gear when downshifting, goes from 4 to 2, then 1 with a delay, and sometimes it shifts from 1 to 5 while stationary!, this seems to happen more often after I use tiptronic.

I really like the car but I feel this tranny problem will be a money pit, last chance I'll be giving is this solenoid adjustment the mechanic is doing, if that doesn't solve it, I'm thinking about selling this car, such a shame, pretty good car with such a problematic transmission. Buying a new valve body is out of the question here.

Any advise on what could be happening?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexplay said:


> Continuing with my story, I bought the complete solenoid kit (large canister ones) from SINS in amazon.
> 
> The mechanic installed them and then I proceeded to test drive it on the weekend, however now the car shifts like a manual transmission, that is, a slight decrease in RPMs then shift to the next gear. Also the bump when engaging R is still present. I took it to another mechanic to get a second opinion and he said that the bump was due to my transmission mounts being worn out (I already knew that, my current mechanic told me they were worn out, but not that this was related to the bump). I'm skeptical about the bump being related to a bad transmission mount, because this doesn't happen always, sometimes the bump is not even noticeable.
> 
> ...


Not sounding good, too bad about all the problems. 
"shifts from 1 to 5 while stationary!" Wow, Very odd. Sounds like the computer thinks the car is moving. Any other codes going on, something other than for the transmission? Could be something with the computer or connections. I found that my computer had been flooded with water at one time because of high water in the area where the computer is located. Could see where water had dried and left residue behind on the circuit board. I found the drains were stopped up with leaves and junk. In the chamber below the wiper blades. I don't understand why the engineers think they can put a computer in a place where there is a possibility of a flood. 
" P0771 (N92) came up, he said it was probably due to the sensor being covered in oil / shortcircuiting" Sensors don't short out because of oil, most oil is not very conductive if it is not mixed with something like coolant or salt off the road. 
Sounds like you have more problems than what the new solenoids could fix. 
I can understand not wanting to throw anymore money into this car. A car with a lot of problems can be a money pit.
BTW, I was talking with a tow truck driver this summer. I asked him what cars he tows the most. He said the new Fords all the time and some VW, he also said never needs to tow a Subaru and not many Toyotas. Interesting.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

bent_rod said:


> Not sounding good, too bad about all the problems.
> "shifts from 1 to 5 while stationary!" Wow, Very odd. Sounds like the computer thinks the car is moving. Any other codes going on, something other than for the transmission? Could be something with the computer or connections. I found that my computer had been flooded with water at one time because of high water in the area where the computer is located. Could see where water had dried and left residue behind on the circuit board. I found the drains were stopped up with leaves and junk. In the chamber below the wiper blades. I don't understand why the engineers think they can put a computer in a place where there is a possibility of a flood.
> " P0771 (N92) came up, he said it was probably due to the sensor being covered in oil / shortcircuiting" Sensors don't short out because of oil, most oil is not very conductive if it is not mixed with something like coolant or salt off the road.
> Sounds like you have more problems than what the new solenoids could fix.
> ...


Yes, the shift from 1 to 5 only happened twice since I rebuilt the tranny, like 2 months after having it done, it was actually working pretty well besides that, and it's very odd to replicate that, seems to happen when the car has been driven a lot during a particularly hot day. Also, I drove the car 1 week perfectly after the solenoid swap (besides the R bump and manual-like shifts), then the 7th day that code came up shortly after the shift from 1 to 5.

Other than that, I noticed that before doing the solenoid swap, if I used tiptronic for a while, the car tended to act weird when downshifting, specially from 3 to 2, one day it downshifted so hard I thought the transmission would shoot up in front of the car, like I had been rear ended, after I switched to D it would do it some more times before getting back to normal, seems like it forgets the shifting points.

I told the mechanic if he had done the TCM reset procedure and he did, however he didn't fully let the car learn the shift points. According to the manual which came with the solenoids, after resetting the TCM, you have to drive the car with 20% throttle from 1 to 6 in D, repeat that procedure 20 times, and then drive the car for a while as normal. Apparently, he only this "3" times, I don't know if this wasn't enough for the car to properly adapt to the new solenoids.

About the G195 and P0771 code, after resetting it, the day after it didn't come back up, so maybe a temporal fault related to some bad contact? or corroded contacts, I'm not really sure.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexplay said:


> Yes, the shift from 1 to 5 only happened twice since I rebuilt the tranny, like 2 months after having it done, it was actually working pretty well besides that, and it's very odd to replicate that, seems to happen when the car has been driven a lot during a particularly hot day. Also, I drove the car 1 week perfectly after the solenoid swap (besides the R bump and manual-like shifts), then the 7th day that code came up shortly after the shift from 1 to 5.
> 
> Other than that, I noticed that before doing the solenoid swap, if I used tiptronic for a while, the car tended to act weird when downshifting, specially from 3 to 2, one day it downshifted so hard I thought the transmission would shoot up in front of the car, like I had been rear ended, after I switched to D it would do it some more times before getting back to normal, seems like it forgets the shifting points.
> 
> ...


"manual-like shifts" sounds like could have something to do with the solenoids, are the ones you installed new or are they rebuilt. I rebuilt my old ones and that made different problems, ended up getting the new small can solenoids. After rebuilding the old solenoids I had low line pressure, made delays and hard bump when first put into drive.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

bent_rod said:


> "manual-like shifts" sounds like could have something to do with the solenoids, are the ones you installed new or are they rebuilt. I rebuilt my old ones and that made different problems, ended up getting the new small can solenoids. After rebuilding the old solenoids I had low line pressure, made delays and hard bump when first put into drive.


I bought these https://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-G...975&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=09g+shift+solenoids

I thought they were new, but according to my mechanic they are remanufactured ones and repackaged as new, he noticed because they don't have a serial number labeled on their side just as the original ones from VW (could this be true? I've read about SINS and they manufacture their own solenoids). But I'm crossing my fingers it's just a miscalibration of them, because it came with a manual stating that if you experience shift flaring (I think this is related to the manual-like shifts) / hard shifts / delayed R or D engagement, you have to adjust the solenoids in order to get the perfect oil pressure.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexplay said:


> I bought these https://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-G...975&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=09g+shift+solenoids
> 
> I thought they were new, but according to my mechanic they are remanufactured ones and repackaged as new, he noticed because they don't have a serial number labeled on their side just as the original ones from VW (could this be true? I've read about SINS and they manufacture their own solenoids). But I'm crossing my fingers it's just a miscalibration of them, because it came with a manual stating that if you experience shift flaring (I think this is related to the manual-like shifts) / hard shifts / delayed R or D engagement, you have to adjust the solenoids in order to get the perfect oil pressure.


I wouldn't put remanufactured ones back in. So much depends on how well the solenoids work. From what I have seen the later models of the 09G valve body used the new small can solenoids. I think VW found that the old style ones didn't work very long. Yes you can adjust each of the valves, a screw can be turned to increase or decrease pressure. 
Best of luck, keep us posted on how it works out for you.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

bent_rod said:


> alexplay said:
> 
> 
> > I bought these https://www.amazon.com/Volkswagen-G...975&sr=8-3-fkmr1&keywords=09g+shift+solenoids
> ...


So my mechanic changed the g195 sensor, cleaned the solenoids and did the reset procedure again yesterday. Today, after driving it for a while on a hot morning, it got stuck in 5th, later in 4th. In both cases I had to brake completely or turn off the car and back on, for it to reset. And later on the evening PRNDS lights came on again...

I'm suspecting it's the oil,I put Dexron vi as he recommended me, but I don't think this oil is compliant with the VW specs and it's reaching too high temps, this is the only thing left, can't believe after practically a new tranny the problem persists. I'll send it again to scan the temps to see if this could be the last thing affecting The transmission.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexplay said:


> Continuing with my story, I bought the complete solenoid kit (large canister ones) from SINS in amazon.
> 
> Also, shortly after doing the solenoid swap, I got the dreaded PRNDS lights (hadn't had any fault codes since the tranny rebuild),


Found this on the Sonnax site: "The 09G, 09K and 09M transaxles in Audi and Volkswagen have a unique feature that will show up in your shop sooner or later. Most everyone knows that the brake pedal must be depressed in order to move the shifter from park. The new feature is that the brake pedal must remain depressed until the desired gear has been selected. If the brake pedal is released before the desired gear is selected the PRNDL lights will flash, the transmission will remain in neutral and the engine RPM's may fluctuate. Depressing the brake pedal will turn off the flashing PRNDL and allow the transmission to engage. This is a normal condition, there is no repair needed. Advise the driver to keep the brake pedal depressed until the transmission has engaged.
This information can be obtained from the VW bulletin # 34 06 04 dated August 17, 2006, or Audi bulletin # 34 09 02 dated February 3, 2009."

Can see how a defective brake light switch could cause problems.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

sdezego said:


> My thought was maybe the solenoid is not bad electrically, but that not properly controlling flow to the TCC due to debris or what not.
> 
> Anyway. I have a set of gauges on the way as I needed a set anyway.


I found this on the Sonnax site, gives a lot more info about expected pressure readings. 
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/192-aw-6-speed-fwd


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

bent_rod said:


> Found this on the Sonnax site: "The 09G, 09K and 09M transaxles in Audi and Volkswagen have a unique feature that will show up in your shop sooner or later. Most everyone knows that the brake pedal must be depressed in order to move the shifter from park. The new feature is that the brake pedal must remain depressed until the desired gear has been selected. If the brake pedal is released before the desired gear is selected the PRNDL lights will flash, the transmission will remain in neutral and the engine RPM's may fluctuate. Depressing the brake pedal will turn off the flashing PRNDL and allow the transmission to engage. This is a normal condition, there is no repair needed. Advise the driver to keep the brake pedal depressed until the transmission has engaged.
> This information can be obtained from the VW bulletin # 34 06 04 dated August 17, 2006, or Audi bulletin # 34 09 02 dated February 3, 2009."
> 
> Can see how a defective brake light switch could cause problems.


Yeah that PRNDS flashing is totally different, what I experienced was no flashing, but they all lighted up. My mechanic scanned it again and it threw:

G195 Implausible
Gear 5, Incorrect Ratio

However, my principal suspect is really the Transmission Oil. I put 7 liters of Dauer Dexron VI, however it seems this oil is improper for this transmission, because when it gets hot it starts to show all the faults I mentioned, as it loses viscosity. When the weather is cold or the car is driven for a short period of time, it actually shifts perfectly, but on hot days or driving it hard, gears start sticking and PRNDS comes up.

I've been reading the closest oil to OEM is Mobil 3309, on monday I'll take it to the mechanic to monitor the temps when really hot, that way we can determine if this is really the problem. I'm 90% sure it could be this, the other 10% is a faulty valve body, but he said the valve bores are in good condition.


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## SccrMan13 (Mar 10, 2008)

SccrMan13 said:


> Thanks for the heads up on the walmart price. I plan on swapping that fluid out again this week while I'm doing my front suspension refresh.
> I have a a tiny flair between 2-3 or 3-4 (can't remember) that I'm hoping will get worked out once the fluid is improved. Luckily my car doesn't see a ton of miles, but I'll definitely get that fluid swapped a couple more times this fall.


Finally swapped the fluid again and still having issues after TCM reset. Fluid was obviously not great. Pulled maybe 2.5l out and put 3.7 in. Got to Temp and pulled the plug and drained a lot out which I expected. Stuff coming out was nasty. May try to do it again soon.

1. 3-4 flairs and 4-3 clunks. (I have the old solenoids or I could try another one)
2. Hard shift from P to D or R and back.
3. Seems like it is shifting into higher gears really early and locking up the converter which is dropping RPM? It seems like a lazy transmission.

I reset the TCM again as well, so it is relearning. The 3-4 shift was okay before the new solenoids and fluid and I have the old solenoid. Tempted to try to put the old one back in. 

I thought I read somewhere there is a screw to turn that should adjust the pressure for the 3-4 shift if it is slipping. 
By the looks of it another filter and dropping the pan may not be a bad idea. 
I'm thinking it may be time for a transmission specialist, but I don't want them to just immediately go for the new torque converter.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexplay said:


> I've been reading the closest oil to OEM is Mobil 3309, on monday I'll take it to the mechanic to monitor the temps when really hot, that way we can determine if this is really the problem. I'm 90% sure it could be this, the other 10% is a faulty valve body, but he said the valve bores are in good condition.


Did he vaccum test the valve body for valve bore leaks? Sonax sells a lot of repair kits for the control valves (not solenoids). Most require a special holding fixture and reamer to install the new parts. 
The Mobil 3309 ATF is what I use. 
Anything new with your transmission problems?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

SccrMan13 said:


> Finally swapped the fluid again and still having issues after TCM reset. Fluid was obviously not great. Pulled maybe 2.5l out and put 3.7 in. Got to Temp and pulled the plug and drained a lot out which I expected. Stuff coming out was nasty. May try to do it again soon.
> 
> 1. 3-4 flairs and 4-3 clunks. (I have the old solenoids or I could try another one)
> 2. Hard shift from P to D or R and back.
> ...


Yes all the clutch and main boost pressure control valves have adjusters on them. They can be adjusted if the computer is not able to make the required adaptations. 
Mobil 3309 is the ATF I use in this transmission.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

After getting several more opinions, they all point that the fault in this transmission is the overheating in hot climates. Currently I live in Venezuela, and average temp here is 30º C to 33º C, which seem to be the days where I get more problems with gears sticking and PRNDS lights on.

Some mechanics have recommended me to make some kind of adaptation to replace the transmission oil cooler with an auxiliary radiator, to cool down the oil with air instead of the coolant. I've seen https://www.vwpartsvortex.com/oem-parts/volkswagen-auxiliary-radiator-1k0121212c and seems to be similar to what the mechanics described, however there's 1 thing, this auxiliary radiator does not connect to the car's radiator fan, so if I'm stuck in traffic this won't do anything, as it will still be hot. The auxiliary radiator the mechanics have recommended state that it does receive airflow from the car's radiator fan, as to cool down the oil whether the car is running or stuck in traffic.

What are you guys opinion on this?


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

bent_rod said:


> Did he vaccum test the valve body for valve bore leaks? Sonax sells a lot of repair kits for the control valves (not solenoids). Most require a special holding fixture and reamer to install the new parts.
> The Mobil 3309 ATF is what I use.
> Anything new with your transmission problems?


Yes he tested the valve body and it's in good condition. However he didn't calibrate the solenoids apropriately, so on monday I'll take it again, because I'm experiencing some flares from 2-3,3-4,4-5 and bumps when engaging R. It seems he only cleaned up the valve body, but I insisted several time he had to calibrate the solenoids, I even gave him a manual on how to properly do it and how many time you have to turn the adjustment screw as to regulate the oil pressure to the solenoids. He said he was hesitant to do that before, because he thought they came calibrated from factory, but after insisting several times, he'll finally do it, because these flare and bumps problems can't be due to wrong oil / overheating, because it happens even with the car is cold.

I'm currently giving this car 3 more chances:

1. Proper solenoid calibration, as to correctly solve the flare problems
2. Switch trans oil to mobil 3309, to see if that solves the overheating problem
3. If the new oil does not solve the gears sticking problem, I'll try and do this auxiliary radiator adaptation (read my previous reply)


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

Continuing with my story, my mechanic now properly adjusted the solenoids, I gave him some piece of advice using these 2 websites:

https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/332-adjusting-clutch-control-valves-on-aisin-fwd-6-speeds
http://www.searchautoparts.com/moto...omatic-transmission/09g-flared-shift-problems

I told him the symptoms I was getting, he adjusted the threaded plug which adjusts the tension of the spring acting on the solenoids for each gear combination, now I barely get any harsh R engagement/bump (I can hear the plates moving and R engaging and no bump), flares got a lot better, barely noticeable. Only thing is a slight flare from 5 to 6 and a slight bump when engaging D, I think with just a bit more of trial and error it can get perfect. So even though my transmission mounts are worn out, the bump wasn't related to it (as another mechanic said to me), but to wrong adjustment of the solenoids.

He also adjusted the speed sensors and cables which go from the valve body to the tranny, some of them were making bad contact, and so far haven't got any more PRNDS lights / error codes again.

When transmission oil gets hot, it starts to shift a bit harsh though, specially downshift, this however is a different problem, and I'm considering adapting it an aftermarket auxiliary transmission oil cooler, as to cool down the oil without depending on the engine coolant, hopefully this will ultimately solve the remaining problems with this tranny, because I live in a hot climate area, this seems to happen when the outside temp rises to 34ºC and heavy traffic.

And finally just to be on the safe side, after doing that, I'll swap the current Dexron VI oil with Mobil 3309, as to correctly meet VW specs and eliminate any other unexpected problems.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Not sure if you are aware, but some models (e.g. my 2009 CC with the KGU code 09g), came with an external cooler as well as the water->oil cooler. Not sure if the others have plugs or provisions for the external Cooler or not, and as I am writing I remembered that the Valve Bodies are different, so this info may be useless.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

My Update:
I have been busy with other projects and my son has my old Durango to drive in the mean time, so I wasn't in a rush. I read through the ASTG book, did an enormous amount of reading on the 09g as well as reading and going through Sonnex's site as there are quite a few really good articles as was pointed out above.

I dropped the pan and the fluid was dark, but did not really smell burnt. There was some clutch material in there, but nothing major in my book, so I threw some new oil and filter to further run some tests. I used the info on Sonnex's site to run some pressure tests but only really went through the K1 and TCC pressure Diagnostics. I could not find a problem with the pressures.

I reset codes (incorrect Gear codes due to slip) and adaptation and decided to do some logging with VCDS. Although, I really didn't need the speed sensor logs to tell me that there is massive slip below Stall. Ran in Tip mode and same thing.

What was interesting is that there is no slip in reverse even with hard acceleration (most likely because there is no TCC modulation). This told me (at least I think) that the TCC is not toast in it of itself. Also, I read that even in Tip mode, there is TCC modulation but does try to fully apply "as soon as possible".

So, my determination is that there is something mechanical wrong in the VB, TCC bores Accumulator, etc. Maybe a broken spring, clogged passage etc. I was thinking maybe the K1 clutch was bad as a result of the root cause, but see slip in second and 3 gear as well.

Regardless, I went back and forth and was going to rebuild the trans. In the end, I just bought a trans with 38k miles from a '11 CC (same KGU code) for a little over $600 shipped to my door from LKQ. Hopefully this is the right move.

I realize that this may seem a bit drastic, but the car as 170k meticulously maintained miles (regardless). I also wanted to replace the Rear Main with the iABED setup and do the chains. I already had the factory RMS fail at 78k, so this is a no brainer. Also, going to do the Chains and tensioners as they have not been done.

So, waiting for the trans to come and other parts.

After I get the new trans in, I will go through the trans and find the culprit.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

alexplay said:


> When transmission oil gets hot, it starts to shift a bit harsh though, specially downshift, this however is a different problem, and I'm considering adapting it an aftermarket auxiliary transmission oil cooler, as to cool down the oil without depending on the engine coolant, hopefully this will ultimately solve the remaining problems with this tranny, because I live in a hot climate area, this seems to happen when the outside temp rises to 34ºC and heavy traffic.


Thanks for the update, enjoyed reading it. 
It is always good to keep the fluid from overheating. Keep us posted what you come up with.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

sdezego said:


> I realize that this may seem a bit drastic, but the car as 170k meticulously maintained miles (regardless). I also wanted to replace the Rear Main with the iABED setup and do the chains. I already had the factory RMS fail at 78k, so this is a no brainer. Also, going to do the Chains and tensioners as they have not been done.
> 
> So, waiting for the trans to come and other parts.
> 
> After I get the new trans in, I will go through the trans and find the culprit.


My Jetta has 148K on it and think I will replace the chains, tensioners and guides next year, along with the rear main seal. What is the "iABED setup"? Is that for the 2.5L engine?
Good luck with the used transmission, sometimes that is the best way to go. Keep us posted on the outcome.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

bent_rod said:


> My Jetta has 148K on it and think I will replace the chains, tensioners and guides next year, along with the rear main seal. What is the "iABED setup"? Is that for the 2.5L engine?
> Good luck with the used transmission, sometimes that is the best way to go. Keep us posted on the outcome.


The main reason for doing the chains is that the early CCTA had a problem with one of the hydro tensioners and known to fail. No sign, but just seems prudent not to push my luck. Also, not sure if the 2.5 has the same crap design rear main seal that the CCTA went to, but it is a serious joke. A thin bonded lip seal to a stamped metal plate. The solution I mention, is a billet AL housing that holds the early 4cyl seal that VW used for 100 years and never fails..

https://www.ecstuning.com/b-iabed-industries-parts/billet-aluminum-rear-main-seal-upgrade/462-103-171f~iab/


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

For adjusting the tension of solenoids, does it need a special tool?
What does the threaded plug looks like? I wonder if the flat head screwdriver will work.

Thanks a lot！




alexplay said:


> Yes he tested the valve body and it's in good condition. However he didn't calibrate the solenoids apropriately, so on monday I'll take it again, because I'm experiencing some flares from 2-3,3-4,4-5 and bumps when engaging R. It seems he only cleaned up the valve body, but I insisted several time he had to calibrate the solenoids, I even gave him a manual on how to properly do it and how many time you have to turn the adjustment screw as to regulate the oil pressure to the solenoids. He said he was hesitant to do that before, because he thought they came calibrated from factory, but after insisting several times, he'll finally do it, because these flare and bumps problems can't be due to wrong oil / overheating, because it happens even with the car is cold.
> 
> I'm currently giving this car 3 more chances:
> 
> ...


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Does it need a special tool for the adjusters?
What does the threaded plug looks like? I wonder if the flat head screwdriver will work.

Thanks a lot！



bent_rod said:


> Yes all the clutch and main boost pressure control valves have adjusters on them. They can be adjusted if the computer is not able to make the required adaptations.
> Mobil 3309 is the ATF I use in this transmission.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> Does it need a special tool for the adjusters?
> What does the threaded plug looks like? I wonder if the flat head screwdriver will work.
> 
> Thanks a lot！


Just normal hand tools will work, - screw driver for the Primary Pressure Regulator and hex as I recall for the others. I have read that some have drilled access holes and install rubber plugs in a junkyard transmission pan to make adjustments go faster.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Many thanks.

This is really helpful.



bent_rod said:


> Just normal hand tools will work, - screw driver for the Primary Pressure Regulator and hex as I recall for the others. I have read that some have drilled access holes and install rubber plugs in a junkyard transmission pan to make adjustments go faster.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi bent_rod,

Thanks a lot for the picture. Now I know the main pressure regulator.

Just one more question, which number is the threaded plug for K2 or B1?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> Hi bent_rod,
> 
> Thanks a lot for the picture. Now I know the main pressure regulator.
> 
> ...


This photo should help, found it several pages back in this thread.


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## chor808 (Jul 29, 2014)

I think I may be the victim of the 09G. Started three days ago with the hard delayed shift from 1-2, when you leave from standing start it is fine, from a rolling start it free revs and then bumps into gear. Saturday it would hardly move lots of slipping, I did a code read with VAG-COM and found this error code.

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
Part No SW: 09G 927 750 GP HW: 09G 927 750 GP
Component: AQ 250 6F 1391
Revision: 00H76000 Serial number:
Coding: 0000840
Shop #: WSC 05311 000 00000
VCID: 05062FC54C83026EB9-8050
1 Fault Found:
00453 - Function Limitation due to Over-Temperature
000 - - - Intermittent

No other codes, reset that code and it runs again but still has the same slip bump from a rolling start. No other gears seem to be effected. It is a 2009 2.0tsi with 68k on it, had it from new gear oil never changed as per the service schedule.

It is with the garage now they are going to drop the pan I believe and have a look at the fluid.

Could this be the valve body problem?

Thanks


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

chor808 said:


> I think I may be the victim of the 09G. Started three days ago with the hard delayed shift from 1-2, when you leave from standing start it is fine, from a rolling start it free revs and then bumps into gear. Saturday it would hardly move lots of slipping, I did a code read with VAG-COM and found this error code.
> 
> Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
> Part No SW: 09G 927 750 GP HW: 09G 927 750 GP
> ...


Possible valve body problem/solenoid problem. The shop should check pressure test ports on the transmission. Could be a bad pump with low pressure output, or a problem with an piston seal leaking. If that is the case then a complete transmission rebuild would be required. But many of the problems with this transmission can be resolved with just replacement of the solenoids.


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## chor808 (Jul 29, 2014)

bent_rod said:


> Possible valve body problem/solenoid problem. The shop should check pressure test ports on the transmission. Could be a bad pump with low pressure output, or a problem with an piston seal leaking. If that is the case then a complete transmission rebuild would be required. But many of the problems with this transmission can be resolved with just replacement of the solenoids.


There was fluid leaking all over the pipes from the trans to the cooler at the front of the car, this did not show up at home as the drive is gravel. Anyway we think this has caused low fluid and hence the overheat and issue. Pipes are being replaced and fluid refilled. It was only driven for about 20 miles after noticing the first issue. Fingers crossed it is sorted.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi bent_rod,


I tried to locate the thermostat for trans cooler. 

Is it as marked in the picture? I tried to google the location for it. But get no luck.

The ATF temperature is a little bit high. I was wondering if I got a broken trans thermostat.

By the way, my car is 06 Jetta MK5.

Thanks a lot!

屏幕快照 2018-02-05 下午1.49.04 by allen Young, 於 Flickr
屏幕快照 2018-02-05 下午1.49.12 by allen Young, 於 Flickr


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> Hi bent_rod,
> 
> 
> I tried to locate the thermostat for trans cooler.
> ...



My Jetta 09G transmission cooler is located on top of the transmission, an integrated cooler. Coolant hoses run to it. I see that some transmissions use a remote heat exchanger in the radiator with ATF lines running to it. The hose in your photo look like the normal heater lines. 
Cooler is to the left of the black arrow in drawing below.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Thanks a lot.

Finally I found it wrapped with the heat shield.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

*Here is what I did to the solenoid adjusters*

Before the adjustment, driving is kind of smooth when ATF is cold. But It will get hard shift after about 10 minutes when ATF is hot.
1st gear to 2nd gear, obvious delayed harsh engagement; 
2nd gear to 3rd gear, slightly delayed harsh engagement;
3rd gear to 4th gear, sometimes flare;
Delay/bump into Reverse, obvious when ATF is hot;
downshift obvious bump.

Here is my adjustment:
K1 counter-clockwise 1+3/4 turn
K2 counter-clockwise 3/4 turn
B1 counter-clockwise 2+1/2 turn
K3 counter-clockwise 3/4 turn

Now I am getting a little better upshift(especially 3rd to 4th gear), and downshift is also a little better(but some gear still obvious bump). 
But 1st to 2nd gear is bind-up and shift early at 1500rpm. 
Much worse bump to reverse(but no delay now).

My plan for next adjustment when changing the ATF:
B1 clockwise 1 turn
K3 counter-clockwise 1/2 turn


Here is some information for adjusting the tension.

http://www.rostratransmission.com/aisin-warner-09g-shift-controls.php
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/332-adjusting-clutch-control-valves-on-aisin-fwd-6-speeds


I tried to erase the transmission adaption with a VAG cable. But always failed.(I already erase the error code with the engine)


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> Before the adjustment, driving is kind of smooth when ATF is cold. But It will get hard shift after about 10 minutes when ATF is hot.
> 1st gear to 2nd gear, obvious delayed harsh engagement;
> 2nd gear to 3rd gear, slightly delayed harsh engagement;
> 3rd gear to 4th gear, sometimes flare;
> ...


I don't recall if you have already replaced the shift solenoids with new ones?


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

I didn't replace the solenoid. I checked the resistance and they are all good. 
I also checked the plunger, and they all move freely.
Actually the valve body is a refurbished one. But I don't know when the owner replaced it.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> I didn't replace the solenoid. I checked the resistance and they are all good.
> I also checked the plunger, and they all move freely.
> Actually the valve body is a refurbished one. But I don't know when the owner replaced it.


The linear solenoids are very important to the correct operation of the valve body. If it was my car I would replace the 6 linear solenoids with new ones. I did that after the having problems with the rebuilt ones. Less than $300 for new ones from ebay seller vwpartfl.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

bent_rod said:


> The linear solenoids are very important to the correct operation of the valve body. If it was my car I would replace the 6 linear solenoids with new ones. I did that after the having problems with the rebuilt ones. Less than $300 for new ones from ebay seller vwpartfl.


You are right. I did some search on Ebay. But I found it hard to make a choice from so many solenoids.
I will get them changed if the old ones failed again.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> You are right. I did some search on Ebay. But I found it hard to make a choice from so many solenoids.
> I will get them changed if the old ones failed again.


Be very careful what you buy on ebay. So many are remanufactured parts, some sold as new and most are junk. I do know the new solenoids from VwPartsFL work. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Audi-Mi...-09G-09D-09M-TR60SN-n93-n92-n282/261490036434


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi bent_rod,
Thanks a lot for the information.

Did you read about anyone replacing the large can solenoid with small can solenoid on the valve body? The guy said the small can solenoid is newer and better, and would unlikely have the sticking issue.

I think I read it somewhere. But I can't find it now.

The maniford may be the same size, but there seems to be more holes at the base of maniford on the small can solenoid.


2018-03-07 上午11.17.50 by allen Young, 於 Flickr


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> Hi bent_rod,
> Thanks a lot for the information.
> 
> Did you read about anyone replacing the large can solenoid with small can solenoid on the valve body? The guy said the small can solenoid is newer and better, and would unlikely have the sticking issue.


Yes replace with the small can solenoids. The TCC N91 is has a large can it is different on the snout end. That is the set I used from ebay seller VwPartsFL.
This is a good video on replacing the solenoids. The guy makes look easy, he must have done many before. It took me a lot longer. the wire connectors are a pain to get loose. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRoZivkbMTk

BTW, this ebay seller has what looks to be the same set of solenoids. He states they are not the Chinese ones. Don't get the ones made in China, I hear they don't work good. WolfsburgTuning


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Thanks a lot.
You are right. The wire connectors are hard to deal with. I broke the 8 pin cable last time. I will try to replace the solenoids without taking the valve body off next time.
I also want to do more check to see if I need a whole set or just two (N90 + N283) solenoids.
Right now I just had problems with 1-2, 2-3 and 4-3, 3-2.



bent_rod said:


> Yes replace with the small can solenoids. The TCC N91 is has a large can it is different on the snout end. That is the set I used from ebay seller VwPartsFL.
> This is a good video on replacing the solenoids. The guy makes look easy, he must have done many before. It took me a lot longer. the wire connectors are a pain to get loose.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRoZivkbMTk
> 
> BTW, this ebay seller has what looks to be the same set of solenoids. He states they are not the Chinese ones. Don't get the ones made in China, I hear they don't work good. WolfsburgTuning


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> Thanks a lot.
> You are right. The wire connectors are hard to deal with. I broke the 8 pin cable last time. I will try to replace the solenoids without taking the valve body off next time.
> I also want to do more check to see if I need a whole set or just two (N90 + N283) solenoids.
> Right now I just had problems with 1-2, 2-3 and 4-3, 3-2.


I recommend the complete set. Just inviting more trouble later on if you don't.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

Checking in to update you guys with my Story.

After numerous solenoid adjusting, I got rid of 95% of flares from 2-3, 3-4 and 4-5. They're not noticeable when driving conservatively and barely noticeable when driving more aggressive, I can live with that, it had to be made by trial and error instead of the by-the-book, since the mechanic does not have the scanner to check the pressure while changing gears, etc. and find the perfect adjustment.

Bump when engaging D / R are present sometimes, although most times they engage perfectly without bumps, seems to be when the oil is hot.
I had a Bind up from 5-6, and it improved a lot adjusting the B1 solenoid, decreasing the pressure (about 2 turns)

Finally, I bit the bullet and installed an external oil cooler. Bought this adapter to bypass the factory heat exchanger:

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/VW-09G-Tran...ash=item3f829f4536:g:W4EAAOSwrhhaFfx-&vxp=mtr

Now the trans oil is 100% cooled by the air it receives from the remote cooler installed on front. Yesterday I tested it for a few KM in city driving and seemed to respond well. I will have to test on a longer road trip, highway and city driving mixed up as to really heat up the oil and see if the gear sticking problem is solved.

To the touch, the oil temperature difference flowing through the hoses is very noticeable between the hot and cold one, so it seems to be doing its job well. I had to add an extra 0.6 liters of trans oil for the extra volume in the radiator and hoses.

I installed a tube and fin radiator similar to this http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...233-old-lady-needs-your-help-4118_1_1_1_2-jpg
but a bit bigger and with 8 tubes, I also bought 3.5 meters of high pressure fuel hoses to connect it to the adapter.

Will keep you guys updated next weeks to see how it behaves after more driving.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

bent_rod said:


> I recommend the complete set. Just inviting more trouble later on if you don't.


Thank you very much for your suggestion.
I am not quite sure about whether the issue is just form solenoid or solenoid + wear of valve body.

Here is my plan.
I am planning to change one first. If I can diagnose that the issue is just from solenoid, I will probably change all the solenoid finally.
If changing one solenoid doesn't work well, I may get a rebuilt valve body instead of a set of solenoids.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Hi Alexplay,

Thanks for sharing. 
I did the solenoid adjusting too. The adjusting did work well with flares shift. But now I get bind-up upshifting and bump downshifting. I need to keep working on the adjusting which is really a nightmare.

I also heard about the external oil cooler. I may want to try it sooner or later.





alexplay said:


> Checking in to update you guys with my Story.
> 
> After numerous solenoid adjusting, I got rid of 95% of flares from 2-3, 3-4 and 4-5. They're not noticeable when driving conservatively and barely noticeable when driving more aggressive, I can live with that, it had to be made by trial and error instead of the by-the-book, since the mechanic does not have the scanner to check the pressure while changing gears, etc. and find the perfect adjustment.
> 
> ...


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

allenyang said:


> Hi Alexplay,
> 
> Thanks for sharing.
> I did the solenoid adjusting too. The adjusting did work well with flares shift. But now I get bind-up upshifting and bump downshifting. I need to keep working on the adjusting which is really a nightmare.
> ...


Yeah it seems that fixing the flares then causes some bumps until the perfect adjustment is done. 

Today I drove again a bit in the highway and city and the 5-6 bind up is still there, but not that much. I'm not even sure if this is what would be considered a "bind up", can you confirm?: after it changes from 5th to 6th gear (at about 80km/h) while maintaining that speed, the car seems to want to downshift to 5th, because it slows down a bit, but then continues, it's like a slight jerk without doing the downshift itself, it happens periodically, until I reach a higher speed (100+ km/h).

Today it was 33.5ºC outside and it performed well, not weird shifting so far, and feels as torquey as when cold.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

I am not quite sure about the symptoms of bind-up. For my car, it's just totally different from flare, so I guess it's bind-up.
When up shifting (1-2, 2-3 for example), the rpm will drop first, and right away I feel the jerk (sometimes one jerk, sometimes twice).
While down shifting is totally different (3-2 for example), it's a big bump and feels like someone kicks the ass of my car.

I am curious about the efficiency of the external oil cooler. Did you try to monitor the temp before and after?
When the ATF is below 80℃（175F）, the shifting is fine. As soon as it goes over 180F, the shifting issue comes up.




alexplay said:


> Yeah it seems that fixing the flares then causes some bumps until the perfect adjustment is done.
> 
> Today I drove again a bit in the highway and city and the 5-6 bind up is still there, but not that much. I'm not even sure if this is what would be considered a "bind up", can you confirm?: after it changes from 5th to 6th gear (at about 80km/h) while maintaining that speed, the car seems to want to downshift to 5th, because it slows down a bit, but then continues, it's like a slight jerk without doing the downshift itself, it happens periodically, until I reach a higher speed (100+ km/h).
> 
> Today it was 33.5ºC outside and it performed well, not weird shifting so far, and feels as torquey as when cold.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

allenyang said:


> I am not quite sure about the symptoms of bind-up. For my car, it's just totally different from flare, so I guess it's bind-up.
> When up shifting (1-2, 2-3 for example), the rpm will drop first, and right away I feel the jerk (sometimes one jerk, sometimes twice).
> While down shifting is totally different (3-2 for example), it's a big bump and feels like someone kicks the ass of my car.
> 
> ...



The RPM drop and then engaging the gear (minus the jerk) is what I was experiencing with 2-3, 3-4 and 4-5. I supposed it was a flare, did the adjustment for flare and it was gone. Bump from 3-2 and 5-4, I still feel them a bit, not that much after some adjustments, but they're there. What I'm not quite sure is the definition of "bind-up", which is what I described when I go from 5th to 6th in my post above, it's not a flare nor a bump, so the only thing left is bind-up, I may be wrong, so maybe someone can clarify this. Something to note is, even manually changing in tiptronic mode, I feel this weird behavior when in 6th gear, until a higher speed is reached, it almost feels like there's a threshold where it should downshift around 80 km/h, but it's just above that threshold that it doesn't do it. Also, if I accelerate too quickly being in 5th gear, the car can reach 120km/h without even going into 6th, I have to let go off the gas, and then it shifts.

Unfortunately I couldn't really monitor the temps before because the mechanic didn't have the device, he has a VAG-COM, but seems that one does not show the temps. I want to invest in a device which shows the temp as to really see the temperature in real time. For what I've read, optimal temperature should be about the same of engine temp (90ºC).


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

5-6 shift of your car is quite similar to my car before the adjusting.
I always let go off the gas as I want to get to 6th gear. The different thing is, in my car it shift to 6th gear immediately after I let go off the gas. 
After I adjusted the B1 adjustor, the 5-6 shift is not a problem any more.

Monitoring the trans temp is not easy. I have the cheap VAG CAN PRO cable ($20) from ebay which can read the information about the transmission through a laptop. I also have the vag cable from ROSS, which I used to clear the adaption. 




alexplay said:


> The RPM drop and then engaging the gear (minus the jerk) is what I was experiencing with 2-3, 3-4 and 4-5. I supposed it was a flare, did the adjustment for flare and it was gone. Bump from 3-2 and 5-4, I still feel them a bit, not that much after some adjustments, but they're there. What I'm not quite sure is the definition of "bind-up", which is what I described when I go from 5th to 6th in my post above, it's not a flare nor a bump, so the only thing left is bind-up, I may be wrong, so maybe someone can clarify this. Something to note is, even manually changing in tiptronic mode, I feel this weird behavior when in 6th gear, until a higher speed is reached, it almost feels like there's a threshold where it should downshift around 80 km/h, but it's just above that threshold that it doesn't do it. Also, if I accelerate too quickly being in 5th gear, the car can reach 120km/h without even going into 6th, I have to let go off the gas, and then it shifts.
> 
> Unfortunately I couldn't really monitor the temps before because the mechanic didn't have the device, he has a VAG-COM, but seems that one does not show the temps. I want to invest in a device which shows the temp as to really see the temperature in real time. For what I've read, optimal temperature should be about the same of engine temp (90ºC).


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

allenyang said:


> 5-6 shift of your car is quite similar to my car before the adjusting.
> I always let go off the gas as I want to get to 6th gear. The different thing is, in my car it shift to 6th gear immediately after I let go off the gas.
> After I adjusted the B1 adjustor, the 5-6 shift is not a problem any more.
> 
> Monitoring the trans temp is not easy. I have the cheap VAG CAN PRO cable ($20) from ebay which can read the information about the transmission through a laptop. I also have the vag cable from ROSS, which I used to clear the adaption.


Yes, mine does shift immediately to 6th after I let go off the gas. I have been adjusting B1 decreasing the pressure. 0.5 turns each time. Right now It's at the 2nd turn. I think I may need just 0.5 turns more.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> Thank you very much for your suggestion.
> I am not quite sure about whether the issue is just form solenoid or solenoid + wear of valve body.
> 
> Here is my plan.
> ...


Ok sounds like a plan. People say 95% of the time a NEW set of small can solenoids will fix most problems in the 09G. I agree with this. My thinking is for around $300 in parts plus ATF it is much better than spending money on a rebuilt valve body. I know Sonnax sells a lot of replacement kits for the valve body to fix internal leaks. So it is possible that a valve body with a lot of miles of shifting in city traffic could wear out.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

About my experience with the external cooler, so far it has been good. I've been driving a bit more aggressive than normal, also in sport mode as to really heat up the tranny, also we have been having some hot days lately (up to 38.5ºC) and the tranny has responded pretty good, shifts as good as cold, something unthinkable of happening before, where even at 33ºC outside it already showed signs of overheating after some city driving / stop and go traffic.


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## troystg (May 15, 2012)

bent_rod said:


> Ok sounds like a plan. People say 95% of the time a NEW set of small can solenoids will fix most problems in the 09G. I agree with this. My thinking is for around $300 in parts plus ATF it is much better than spending money on a rebuilt valve body. I know Sonnax sells a lot of replacement kits for the valve body to fix internal leaks. So it is possible that a valve body with a lot of miles of shifting in city traffic could wear out.


Where would you get the small can solenoids? All I have seen are the OEM versions. 

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

sdezego said:


> My Update:
> I have been busy with other projects and my son has my old Durango to drive in the mean time, so I wasn't in a rush. I read through the ASTG book, did an enormous amount of reading on the 09g as well as reading and going through Sonnex's site as there are quite a few really good articles as was pointed out above.
> 
> I dropped the pan and the fluid was dark, but did not really smell burnt. There was some clutch material in there, but nothing major in my book, so I threw some new oil and filter to further run some tests. I used the info on Sonnex's site to run some pressure tests but only really went through the K1 and TCC pressure Diagnostics. I could not find a problem with the pressures.
> ...



Painful update. I realize this has been a while, but a lot has gone on. ...including the lack of time and patience.

...That 38k mile KGU code trans from LKQ that was shipped to me, was not a KGU 09g but rather a DSG  Took 3 weeks to get it shipped back, corrected and money refunded

Next, bought a 68k mile KGU code from LKQ 1 hr away. Get it loaded into tuck and I noticed Pan was crushed in. Frustrated but driven a long, went in and was going to get immediate refund, but was assured if anything is wrong, fully refundable, etc. So, I decided to take it hope and pull the pan and inspect, etc. Put it in the car and immediate pump issues were evident and in sort time, things went bad (never even took it off ramps). Must have been some unnoticeable damage (crack) or pump ran dry in accident, etc and was a ticking time bomb. Long story, back out and had to go through LKQ Corp case and finally got full refund.


At this point I made the decision to take the orig trans apart and either rebuilt it (depending) or at least find out what went wrong. I finally had the time to so. 

*Valve Body:*

I found a lot of clutch material in bores, internal VB screen etc. I also found one of the metal Check Valves was stuck, but whether this is cause or effect, is in question. In all manuals that I have, books, etc, none say exactly what this Check valve is, but either way it was from debris/clutch material. Bottom left in this pic from Sonnex's site https://s3.amazonaws.com/sonnax-dev/uploads/mercury_image/image/1509/Figure28.jpg

The only other thing that I saw with the VB that showed any signs of wear is one of the accumulator bores. Shiny on one side. I don;t think this is significant to be the root issue, but something that should be tended to (Sonnex makes replacement kit that uses orings on pistons). The cause of this was time and the fact that if you stand the springs up, one sits crooked due to spring manufacture and was causing a side loading of the piston.

The rest of the VB showed no signs of wear on pistons bores, etc.

*Main Trans:*

As I eluded to originally, but thought was correct. K1 clutches were completely burned up and even the cage was overheated (discoloration on metal). I expected to see the K1 apply piston damaged, but it was not...

This is really the only thing that I see wrong with the main trans. No other clutches and nothing else noticeable.

One other thing that I found VERY odd, is that there was no gaskets between pump and case. 1 owner car, etc, so this trans definitely came from the factory like this :screwy: From everything that I have read, the aftermarket gasket went to a metal bonded one piece paper gasket from separate paper gaskets. I saw no mention of the factory not using ANY gasket.. No signs of any sealer either.

I may make a separate post just for this question as I find this very bizarre.

Deciding on a few things... Do I replace the TC (just because)? Do I replace all of the Linear Solenoids (just because)? I will obviously be replacing all bonded pistons, seals, clutch packs, etc.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

Subscribed.
I have a Touareg with an 09D transmission (similar to the 09G) n and I'm having a harsh upshift from 4th to 5th.
Transmission is working fine otherwise.
I thought about a single solenoid replacement too.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Hadaak said:


> Subscribed.
> I have a Touareg with an 09D transmission (similar to the 09G) n and I'm having a harsh upshift from 4th to 5th.
> Transmission is working fine otherwise.
> I thought about a single solenoid replacement too.


There is a way to test the solenoid. I found it before on sonnax website. 
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/113-aisin-aw-linear-solenoids

If you find the solenoid seized after warming up, you might just need to replace one.

I replaced two solenoids at first, and then another two after five months.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

allenyang said:


> There is a way to test the solenoid. I found it before on sonnax website.
> https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/113-aisin-aw-linear-solenoids
> 
> If you find the solenoid seized after warming up, you might just need to replace one.
> ...


Thanks for the link, very interesting.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

bent_rod said:


> Thanks for the link, very interesting.


You are welcome.
Here is the method I used to test the solenoid.
I put the solenoid in a plastic zip bag(good quality one). Then put the zip bag in a container with hot water (freshly boiled).
After a while, I tested the movement of plunger.


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## tikanot (Aug 25, 2013)

*GA6F21WA mistake*

hello i have a mistake 1,2,3,4 work great in cold , when very hot 4,5,6 is slipping , and in cold 5,6 is slipping , i have do oil change , can you confirm it's solenoid mistake or clutch k2?﻿before oil change in cold 1,2,3,4,5,6 work perfect but not in hot.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

tikanot said:


> hello i have a mistake 1,2,3,4 work great in cold , when very hot 4,5,6 is slipping , and in cold 5,6 is slipping , i have do oil change , can you confirm it's solenoid mistake or clutch k2?﻿before oil change in cold 1,2,3,4,5,6 work perfect but not in hot.


Most that have shift problems with hot fluid but good shifts when cold only need to change the solenoid set to high quality new solenoids and a complete change to fresh fluid. 
If the fluid was very dark and thick a complete dismantling and cleaning of the control valve assembly may be needed. 

This transmission is dependent on a wide range of things for proper shift operation. Below is a list:
1. Clutch Adaptation issues
2. Fluid pressure concerns
3. Solenoid failure
4. Valve body bore wear
5. Counter balance pistons problems
6. Transmission Fluid Temperature invalid
7. Worn bushings
8. Shrunk sealing rings
9. K2 clutch sealing ring sleeve leak
10. Excessive clutch clearances
11. Excessive end play
13. Basic settings or throttle relearn not performed
Please refer to https://www.atsg.us/atsg/blog/the09gflaredshiftproblems/
Also very good information can be found in the ATSG repair manual. https://www.atsg.us/atsg/import-manuals-1/vw-09g-09m-audi-tf60sn.html


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

allenyang said:


> There is a way to test the solenoid. I found it before on sonnax website.
> https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/113-aisin-aw-linear-solenoids
> 
> If you find the solenoid seized after warming up, you might just need to replace one.
> ...


Thanks for the link.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

Any reliable online solenoid sellers?
I see plenty on ebay or aliexpress.
Can the solenoid be replaced while valve body is still on the car or do you have to remove the valve body?
I have an 09D transmission.


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## tikanot (Aug 25, 2013)

thanks so for your reply it's only solenoid? yes my old oil is dark and with particle on it. but i don't understand why now in cold 5 and 6 slipping before oil change not.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

Probably because before oil was thicker in cold and when it gets hot it gets thinner and slip occurs. you put new oil which has better viscosity (thin) even in cold so now you see the problem in cold condition.
What oil did you use? Did you buy oil with the right specs?


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## tikanot (Aug 25, 2013)

yes i buy on website say good for mini bolk dexron III. if clutch k2 burn 4gear not working?i have read the pdf about tf60sn , in the pdf it's say mini oil level pipe is 41mm but in my car i have oil level pipe 30mm


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## tikanot (Aug 25, 2013)

i have change the solenoid but i receive big can solenoid and i have small can solenoid, i try with the big can but problem is same and i have error 4f96 and 4f97 , i thing my clutch k2 is burn , and my old solenoid is good


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## tikanot (Aug 25, 2013)

people in holiday? i have open the gearbox , and see clutch k2 is not burn , just one disk with un little par of friction damage , i don't understand my mistake of my car.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

tikanot said:


> people in holiday? i have open the gearbox , and see clutch k2 is not burn , just one disk with un little par of friction damage , i don't understand my mistake of my car.


As I have posted several times before in the thread, buy all new high quality small can solenoids. It is also possible you need to buy a rebuilt valve body.


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## tikanot (Aug 25, 2013)

no i have find my problem is bonded piston in clutch k2 , clutch don't move when i putt air , and air out via disk, no one speack about bonded piston can't be damaged


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

tikanot said:


> no i have find my problem is bonded piston in clutch k2 , clutch don't move when i putt air , and air out via disk, no one speack about bonded piston can't be damaged


Thanks you for the feedback. For most people that post to this thread a fluid change and new solenoids will repair their problems. Your transmission is in the small percent that should have a complete rebuild. I would replace all the seals, frictions and steels, the complete rebuild kit. Then air test all before reassembly. Would be good to check for pump wear also.


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## tikanot (Aug 25, 2013)

i just buy the part i need, i watch this video explain test k2 clutch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpGf5dz6gK0
i don't do a complete rebuild set and my gearbox don't have all the part list in tf60sn pdf. 500usd for part cost 50usd , it's expensive for just for one mistake. and i have say my disk is in perfect good condition so that new.


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

*2012 Jetta 2.5 with 09G problems*

Recently purchased a 2012 Jetta 2.5 with 09G transmission and 94K miles. Test drove fine with no problems. About 2K miles later started noticing the "wrench" indicator display would come on and the "D" would disappear on the display. Intermittently the transmission would clunk when coming to a stop. Took to the stealership and they diagnosed it as a bad VB and wanted $2K+ to fix and wasn't covered under a recall from VW. As the problem got worse, decided to get the VB replaced by an independent VW shop I had used before. They ordered a reman VB from VW and replaced it. All seemed good for the first 500 miles or so then the clunk returned . The shop said they hadn't had any problems with the reman VB from VW but they would replace it again (first time for everything). With another VB in place the problem is still there (not as bad).

At this point and $1500 later not sure what to try next. I kind of doubt that two VBs in a row would exhibit the same symptoms. When the "wrench" symbol appears the codes that show on the scanner is are: P0522-Eng coolant temp sensor-break in wiring/short to positive & P1314-ECM no communications. Could this have been the problem all along? Problem usually appears when it's been driven for at least a half hour. Would a trans cooler setup work? (kind that bypasses the coolant exchange one on the engine). Any inputs would be appreciated.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

A transmission cooler would most likely solve your problem. It did with mine when it was supposedly a mechanical problem (diagnosed by another mechanic), because the code said "Incorrect gear ratio 4th" or something like that, sometimes it said something related to the speed sensor.
Turns out everything was related to the oil overheating and driving it for a while (like in your case). After I put the trans oil cooler, no more problems, unless I drive it really really hard and it makes the oil overheat more. Even so, it cools pretty fast and goes back to normal in minutes, but under normal driving conditions and even some spirited driving now and then, it never threw any fault codes anymore.



jtz54 said:


> Recently purchased a 2012 Jetta 2.5 with 09G transmission and 94K miles. Test drove fine with no problems. About 2K miles later started noticing the "wrench" indicator display would come on and the "D" would disappear on the display. Intermittently the transmission would clunk when coming to a stop. Took to the stealership and they diagnosed it as a bad VB and wanted $2K+ to fix and wasn't covered under a recall from VW. As the problem got worse, decided to get the VB replaced by an independent VW shop I had used before. They ordered a reman VB from VW and replaced it. All seemed good for the first 500 miles or so then the clunk returned . The shop said they hadn't had any problems with the reman VB from VW but they would replace it again (first time for everything). With another VB in place the problem is still there (not as bad).
> 
> At this point and $1500 later not sure what to try next. I kind of doubt that two VBs in a row would exhibit the same symptoms. When the "wrench" symbol appears the codes that show on the scanner is are: P0522-Eng coolant temp sensor-break in wiring/short to positive & P1314-ECM no communications. Could this have been the problem all along? Problem usually appears when it's been driven for at least a half hour. Would a trans cooler setup work? (kind that bypasses the coolant exchange one on the engine). Any inputs would be appreciated.


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

*Same problem $2K and 2 valve bodies later!!!!!!*



alexplay said:


> A transmission cooler would most likely solve your problem. It did with mine when it was supposedly a mechanical problem (diagnosed by another mechanic), because the code said "Incorrect gear ratio 4th" or something like that, sometimes it said something related to the speed sensor.
> Turns out everything was related to the oil overheating and driving it for a while (like in your case). After I put the trans oil cooler, no more problems, unless I drive it really really hard and it makes the oil overheat more. Even so, it cools pretty fast and goes back to normal in minutes, but under normal driving conditions and even some spirited driving now and then, it never threw any fault codes anymore.


Just had an external fluid cooler installed for my 2012 Jetta 2.5 with the 09G tranny. This did not solve the problem! It was originally diagnosed by the dealer as a bad VB. Paid $1500 to have it replaced and it still did the same bang shifting when coming to a stop. They replaced the VB again thinking that maybe the rebuilt one was bad but still has the same problem. Whenever this happens the little wrench symbol shows up next to "Trip" and the "D" for the transmission disappears. If you shut down the car and restart it goes away!?!?!? Either way after $2K I don't want to put any more money into it. The mechanic said he would install a "used" transmission for $1500 but that might be buying another problem! I can't believe that I still have the issue and VW of America has been no help except to say let the dealer handle it.

Should I just drive it off a cliff???? :banghead:


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

jtz54 said:


> Just had an external fluid cooler installed for my 2012 Jetta 2.5 with the 09G tranny. This did not solve the problem! It was originally diagnosed by the dealer as a bad VB. Paid $1500 to have it replaced and it still did the same bang shifting when coming to a stop. They replaced the VB again thinking that maybe the rebuilt one was bad but still has the same problem. Whenever this happens the little wrench symbol shows up next to "Trip" and the "D" for the transmission disappears. If you shut down the car and restart it goes away!?!?!? Either way after $2K I don't want to put any more money into it. The mechanic said he would install a "used" transmission for $1500 but that might be buying another problem! I can't believe that I still have the issue and VW of America has been no help except to say let the dealer handle it.
> 
> Should I just drive it off a cliff???? :banghead:


So what codes does the transmission have now, same as before?
"P0522-Eng coolant temp sensor-break in wiring/short to positive & P1314-ECM no communications"
That sounds more like something in the wires or in a plug connector.


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

Acts the same as before the VB and cooler. Was wondering if it was electrical because the wrench icon goes away when the engine is shut shut down and restarted. I'll verify that the codes are the same but trying to think of how a temp sensor signal can make the tranny shift bad? I've read where the adaptive shift learning can be a problem. Wonder if there is any way to verify if the control module is the problem or maybe the harness?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

jtz54 said:


> Acts the same as before the VB and cooler. Was wondering if it was electrical because the wrench icon goes away when the engine is shut shut down and restarted. I'll verify that the codes are the same but trying to think of how a temp sensor signal can make the tranny shift bad? I've read where the adaptive shift learning can be a problem. Wonder if there is any way to verify if the control module is the problem or maybe the harness?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


The TCM is located in the driver side front wheel well, toward the back. Anyway that is where it is located on my 2005 Jetta. It is possible for that module to have a problem with water intrusion because of physical damage at sometime before you got the car. I would remove the plastic wheel well liner and inspect the TCM and the connectors. Remove the plugs and inspect for corrosion in the pins. Also inspect all the wires going back to the transmission and the ECM. A close visual inspection may reveal the problem. 
If the ECM is having a problem with a com line to the TCM or a bad connection to the transmission to the TCM then the code will be set be set. Then the transmission could go into limp home mode for a time.


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

Though no CEL was present, the "trip Wrench" icon came up after a 1/2 hour. Attached is the results from Bluedriver all module scan.









Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

jtz54 said:


> Though no CEL was present, the "trip Wrench" icon came up after a 1/2 hour. Attached is the results from Bluedriver all module scan.
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Problem is with no com between the ecm and the tcm. If you can't find physical damage to the wires/connectors then could be a bad tcm. 
Would be good to find a technician that has a PICOscope and look at the can high and can low bus comm lines. Be forewarned the communication lines at the data link connector will not show the same activity as the comm lines between the ecm and the tcm, they are on two different seperate com lines. 
If you change out the tcm (new or junk yard unit) it needs to be programed to communicate with the ecm on your car.


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

*Hooping for some ideas...*

Hello - I read through the majority of the thread and didn't come across this problem, hoping someone can chime in. 

135k miles on original fluid, 09G, started getting hard clunks on 3-2 and 2-1 downshifts around 5-8k miles ago, along with the occasional slip on upshift - Based on research determined the VB was the culprit. 

Ordered a reman VB, with the sonnax small can solenoids - Installed it yesterday, reset TCM, and took it for a spin - First 10 mins were buttery smooth amazingness. Then all of a sudden, it got slip grabs from 3-4 really bad, and 2-3, 4-5 kind of bad. 1-2, 5-6 were always fine. I plugged in VCDS and saw ATF temp was 120C - Kept driving a little more, and it was fine as long as i didn't surpass 50% throttle, when the slip-grabs would happen. Eventually it crept up to 130C and it went into limp mode - I was just cruising around the neighborhood, so it was a 2-3 block drive to get home. 

Perplexed, i thought i may have over/under filled the tranny due to it overheating like that. Today, i put in 2 more quarts, leveled it on both AXIS, started it up, shifted into each gear for about 10 seconds, let it warm up to 35C, unplugged drain, and let it get to the slow/no drip point which happened around 43C. Plugged it back up, took it for a test drive and same thing happens, albeit over 30 mins of driving instead of 10 mins. Tempt crept up to 125C before i called it off and went home. 

Below 90C it shifts fine under all power. Once it exceeds 90C, under 20% power it shifts like a champ - slip-grabs in almost all gears when over 50% power. Also note that at all temps there is a slight delay to get into gear in both R and D, despite going in and out of them from neutral 10+ times each. 

I assume i got a bad VB? Could i have installed something incorrectly? No faults show up in VCDS, no gear icons, no flashing lights in dash. Before i reach out for a replacement VB figured i'd ask around. 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions, and all the people who have already contributed to this thread.


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

Pretty much the same is happening to mine although the cooler had no effect on the problem. Didn't have the luxury of a Vag-Com so I couldn't tell you the before and after temps. I'm going to have a guy with a Vag-Com scan my car since the error codes showing up seem to point to an electrical issue. Possibly the TCM overheating? Will chime in if and when the problem is fixed 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Zaytri said:


> Ordered a reman VB, with the sonnax small can solenoids - Installed it yesterday, reset TCM, and took it for a spin - First 10 mins were buttery smooth amazingness. Then all of a sudden, it got slip grabs from 3-4 really bad, and 2-3, 4-5 kind of bad. 1-2, 5-6 were always fine. I plugged in VCDS and saw ATF temp was 120C - Kept driving a little more, and it was fine as long as i didn't surpass 50% throttle, when the slip-grabs would happen. Eventually it crept up to 130C and it went into limp mode - I was just cruising around the neighborhood, so it was a 2-3 block drive to get home.
> Below 90C it shifts fine under all power. Once it exceeds 90C, under 20% power it shifts like a champ - slip-grabs in almost all gears when over 50% power. Also note that at all temps there is a slight delay to get into gear in both R and D, despite going in and out of them from neutral 10+ times each.
> I assume i got a bad VB? Could i have installed something incorrectly? No faults show up in VCDS, no gear icons, no flashing lights in dash. Before i reach out for a replacement VB figured i'd ask around.


I took a look at my ATSG manual for the 09G. The first thing they make a big point of is the difference between the transmission with internal cooler and transmissions with external coolers. The valve body is different and the spacer plate is different. If you have the wrong valve body/plate no ATF will flow to the cooler. ATSG warns this will destroy your transmission. I am guessing you didn't have overheating before you changed the valve body.


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

bent_rod said:


> I took a look at my ATSG manual for the 09G. The first thing they make a big point of is the difference between the transmission with internal cooler and transmissions with external coolers. The valve body is different and the spacer plate is different. If you have the wrong valve body/plate no ATF will flow to the cooler. ATSG warns this will destroy your transmission. I am guessing you didn't have overheating before you changed the valve body.


Yes - Thanks for the info!

No overheating issues until I swapped in the new VB - I guess i'll pull it tomorrow and compare the spacer plates to determine if that's the problem.

Doing a quick search online, it seems there are 6? VBs for the 09G. Since mine is an 08 Rabbit, it eliminates the 3 with switches as those apply it seems to '04 and earlier. That leaves Large Cans Cooler on case, and Small Cans Cooler on case, and Small Cans remote cooler. 

Do the size of the cans cause a problem? My old VB was large cans, so I can assume i have cooler on case - Would the small cans cooler on case be compatible?

Thanks so much!


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

temps should not go over 90 I think. Look for the transmission cooler thermostat. I have one on the Touareg with the 09D version. Some folks just delete the thermostat or mod into open mode.
but you need to make sure you got the right valve body.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f88/transmission-issues-fixed-267553.html


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

https://www.clubtouareg.com/forums/f95/new-info-about-valve-body-problem-175962.html


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Hadaak said:


> temps should not go over 90 I think. Look for the transmission cooler thermostat. I have one on the Touareg with the 09D version. Some folks just delete the thermostat or mod into open mode.


Good point about the thermostat. Recall reading about that before, but the ATSG manual made no remarks about the thermostat. They just said coolant is returned to the cooling system. Could it be some versions of the transmission didn't use a thermostat.


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

bent_rod said:


> I took a look at my ATSG manual for the 09G. The first thing they make a big point of is the difference between the transmission with internal cooler and transmissions with external coolers. The valve body is different and the spacer plate is different. If you have the wrong valve body/plate no ATF will flow to the cooler. ATSG warns this will destroy your transmission. I am guessing you didn't have overheating before you changed the valve body.


So now i'm even more perplexed - I pulled the replacement VB today and compared it to the chart of the types of VBs, as well as the old VB, and it matches up regarding the non-switches, as well as the cooler port. 

The only difference is large vs small can solenoids, and based on research the small can are the newer and preferred ones. 

Thanks!


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Zaytri said:


> So now i'm even more perplexed - I pulled the replacement VB today and compared it to the chart of the types of VBs, as well as the old VB, and it matches up regarding the non-switches, as well as the cooler port. The only difference is large vs small can solenoids, and based on research the small can are the newer and preferred ones. Thanks!


Yes small can solenoids are the ones to use. Please report back what the resolution was, good or bad.


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

jtz54 said:


> Though no CEL was present, the "trip Wrench" icon came up after a 1/2 hour. Attached is the results from Bluedriver all module scan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Keeping my fingers crossed. The person who did the VCSD scan on the car did 3 firmware updates to the ECU. The mechanic also replaced the MAP sensor because of the code it was throwing (P106 can also be caused by ECU software too sensitive). Drove all over Phoenix yesterday in 110° heat and the car did not have the clunky downshifting or the CEL or wrench icon popping up. If the problems don't show up over the next week I'll consider the problem fixed. Funny, I asked the stealership specifically if there were any firmware updates for the car and was told NO, your car needs the VB replaced for $2200.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

jtz54 said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed. The person who did the VCSD scan on the car did 3 firmware updates to the ECU. The mechanic also replaced the MAP sensor because of the code it was throwing (P106 can also be caused by ECU software too sensitive). Drove all over Phoenix yesterday in 110° heat and the car did not have the clunky downshifting or the CEL or wrench icon popping up. If the problems don't show up over the next week I'll consider the problem fixed. Funny, I asked the stealership specifically if there were any firmware updates for the car and was told NO, your car needs the VB replaced for $2200.


Not defending the stealership but in defence of the line tech. So many times they are new just out of school, very undertrained and under much pressure to up sell the customer. I never take a car back to the stealership after the warranty is out.

Do keep an eye on that no com code. Still think you may have a problem with an intermittent bad connection or a problem in the TCU. It is very possible to have codes but no CEL.


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

Zaytri said:


> Yes - Thanks for the info!
> 
> No overheating issues until I swapped in the new VB - I guess i'll pull it tomorrow and compare the spacer plates to determine if that's the problem.
> 
> ...



So the saga continues, I must have messed something up. I put my old VB back into the transmission, and it's still overheating - Didn't have this problem until i attempted to put in the new VB. 

The only thing I can think of is that im not perfectly level when putting in the fluid, and draining out too much resulting in a low fluid level, causing the overheating. 

Where do you guys measure level? Ive been measuring it at the bottom of the transmission pan, on both planes. 

Thanks


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

Zaytri said:


> So the saga continues, I must have messed something up. I put my old VB back into the transmission, and it's still overheating - Didn't have this problem until i attempted to put in the new VB. The only thing I can think of is that im not perfectly level when putting in the fluid, and draining out too much resulting in a low fluid level, causing the overheating. Where do you guys measure level? Ive been measuring it at the bottom of the transmission pan, on both planes.
> Thanks


If the ATF level is too low in the pan you run the possibility picking up air, if too high you can get foaming of the fluid. Yes good to have ATF at right temperature and car level to check fill level. If the fill level is so critical then how would the transmission operate when going up and down hills. You do have the standpipe installed in the drain hole?
Scratching my head over what could have have happened when you swapped out the valve body. The ATSG manual said to make sure the o-ring on the temperature sensor was installed because it fits down into a pressure fluid passageway. This o-ring could be something to check. The temperature sensor should read 3K to 5K ohms at 77F, just in case you want to check. The other thing as I recall about the valve body replacement was to make sure the B1 accumulator piston and spring are installed up in the case before the valve body is mounted. 
Just some ideas.


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## skorell (Aug 28, 2016)

I believe there should be an in-line thermostat on the coolant hose connecting to the transmission oil cooler. Perhaps the thermostat is not functioning properly or the transmission oil cooler is blocked? I am having similar symptoms after a ATF fluid change. I am fairly confident the level is correct and I will be replacing the in-line thermostat and transmission oil cooler next weekend to see if this resolves my issue.


In-line Thermostat:
https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/in-line-thermostat/1k0121113a/


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

jtz54 said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed. The person who did the VCSD scan on the car did 3 firmware updates to the ECU. The mechanic also replaced the MAP sensor because of the code it was throwing (P106 can also be caused by ECU software too sensitive). Drove all over Phoenix yesterday in 110° heat and the car did not have the clunky downshifting or the CEL or wrench icon popping up. If the problems don't show up over the next week I'll consider the problem fixed. Funny, I asked the stealership specifically if there were any firmware updates for the car and was told NO, your car needs the VB replaced for $2200.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Been two weeks since the ECU software update. The problem has been much improved by ten fold and the CEL hasn't come on at all. The only time I get a clunk is a sudden stop in stop&go traffic. considering what it was before I am satisfied with the results. One minor issue after the flash is the cruise control won't engage but I'm told this is a simple fix.


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## skorell (Aug 28, 2016)

Zaytri said:


> So the saga continues, I must have messed something up. I put my old VB back into the transmission, and it's still overheating - Didn't have this problem until i attempted to put in the new VB.
> 
> The only thing I can think of is that im not perfectly level when putting in the fluid, and draining out too much resulting in a low fluid level, causing the overheating.
> 
> ...


Any luck with your overheating issue? Were you able to find the cause?


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

skorell said:


> Any luck with your overheating issue? Were you able to find the cause?


Nope - Swapped out both old and new VB twice each, tried new fluid, bypassed the cooler thermostat.. all nothing. 

Before i started, no overheating issues - Once i dropped the pan and put in the new VB, no matter what I do it'll overheat while driving.

After about 20 mins of driving, it crests over 90+C which is when I get home ASAP and cut it off - If i leave it in park or neutral, it'll SLOWLY drop down 1 degree every 3-5 minutes.

Car running in park, no driving, after about 35 mins of idling it'll creep into the mid 70s C and stabilize. 

I'm about to throw in the towel and search for a local tranny shop that's familiar with VW's and see if they have any ideas. 

It wouldn't be something stupid like a bad filter, would it? When i ordered the remanf VB i got a new trans filter, trans pan bolts, and trans pan gasket. 

I'm running Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic, #773775


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## skorell (Aug 28, 2016)

Zaytri said:


> Nope - Swapped out both old and new VB twice each, tried new fluid, bypassed the cooler thermostat.. all nothing.
> 
> Before i started, no overheating issues - Once i dropped the pan and put in the new VB, no matter what I do it'll overheat while driving.
> 
> ...


Does the temperature go over 100C? I believe the 09G transmission will go into limp mode @ around 127C, so slightly over 90C does not seem critically hot (I could be wrong on this as I am not an 09G expert) . I might be a good idea to double check filter and make sure it is not somehow blocking the oil passages. I am having a similar issue after changing my ATF, although my temperature when driving around the neighbourhood for 25-30 minutes will reach 120C+ and then I call it quits. I have double checked my fluid level and pretty certain it is correct. I am going to test/replace the thermostat this weekend and may also try and replace the ATF oil cooler/heat exchanger mounted on transmission. I wish you luck and please report back with any progress.


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

skorell said:


> Does the temperature go over 100C? I believe the 09G transmission will go into limp mode @ around 127C, so slightly over 90C does not seem critically hot (I could be wrong on this as I am not an 09G expert) . I might be a good idea to double check filter and make sure it is not somehow blocking the oil passages. I am having a similar issue after changing my ATF, although my temperature when driving around the neighbourhood for 25-30 minutes will reach 120C+ and then I call it quits. I have double checked my fluid level and pretty certain it is correct. I am going to test/replace the thermostat this weekend and may also try and replace the ATF oil cooler/heat exchanger mounted on transmission. I wish you luck and please report back with any progress.


In all of the VB swaps i checked out the filter and didn't see any physical obstructions - Only off the wall thought i had was a bad seal where the cork meets up with the VB. 

From my research, most automatic transmissions should be in the 75-90C range during normal operation (not hauling or towing, or other high stress driving) - I also cant speak for the specifications of the 09G, but once i get over 95C it does start to shift less smooth. Which makes sense, as according to Valvoline's PI sheet, the viscosity of the ATF at 100C is 1/5th what it is at 40C


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Zaytri said:


> In all of the VB swaps i checked out the filter and didn't see any physical obstructions - Only off the wall thought i had was a bad seal where the cork meets up with the VB.
> 
> From my research, most automatic transmissions should be in the 75-90C range during normal operation (not hauling or towing, or other high stress driving) - I also cant speak for the specifications of the 09G, but once i get over 95C it does start to shift less smooth. Which makes sense, as according to Valvoline's PI sheet, the viscosity of the ATF at 100C is 1/5th what it is at 40C


First and foremost, I don't see (unless I missed it) where you state you reset the Adaptations with VCDS each time. This is an absolute must (especially with new Linear Solenoids). From experience this can be a quirky procedure with no REAL confirmation (per say in VCDS) depending on year.

Also, just to play Devils Advocate, how to you know the fluid was not overheating before you replaced the VB the first time and wasn't in part responsible for your shift issues? Had you monitored the temps initially? Have to ask.

I think there are more than just 2 VBs or 6 in total (regardless of the Can Size). Switches or no switches, Case only Cooler, External only cooler and one (like my CC) that has both a Case mounted and and external cooler. Did you verify the actual Letter Code stamped on the separator plate on the VB? This HAS to Match your old. Also, I "think" but am not certain, that the Accumulator plate must also correspond accordingly. I know the reman question is always, switches or no and External or Case Mounted, but I believe there is more to the story than just that with the later transmissions 2008+. I am by no means and expert, but have learned a massive amount on the 09g in the last year and currently rebuilding the org one that came out of my car (using a low mileage replacement currently).

If you are getting the same issue, NOW, swapping back and from old and new, AND, are resetting adaptation EACH time, then it would seem the issue maybe elsewhere. Don't see how the thermostat just went bad in the midst of this.

If VBs are truly identical and adaptations were reset each time, you will need to dig deeper and check pressures, log input and output shaft speeds, etc to check for slip conditions.

As far as the level goes, yes it is important, but not absolute critical that you are a bit off from level. More important that you let it warm up, shift through all gears after proper temp a few times, leaving in each for more than 10-15 seconds (including neural), repeat. ...which you stated you did. 

For the record, I take a magnetic level on the bottom of the oil pan to level the car.

Hopefully, the wrong VB, or other issues you had already did not cause something like the K2 to burn up and is now overheating your fluid. Once the fluid overheats just once, I would consider the fluid viscosity shot.

One last question. What was in your pan when you orig pulled it to change the VB? With 135k I suspect a lot, but no visible metal frags, etc I presume?


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

sdezego said:


> currently rebuilding the org one that came out of my car (using a low mileage replacement currently).


Please let us know how your rebuild job goes. I have rebuild other transmissions but never an 09G, I have only reworked the valve body. Would like to know of anything that I need to look out for.


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## Zaytri (Mar 3, 2009)

sdezego said:


> First and foremost, I don't see (unless I missed it) where you state you reset the Adaptations with VCDS each time. This is an absolute must (especially with new Linear Solenoids). From experience this can be a quirky procedure with no REAL confirmation (per say in VCDS) depending on year.
> 
> Also, just to play Devils Advocate, how to you know the fluid was not overheating before you replaced the VB the first time and wasn't in part responsible for your shift issues? Had you monitored the temps initially? Have to ask.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply!

To answer a few of your questions:

1- I cannot confirm that it was not overheating before i swapped out the VB - But currently, it'll go over 120c if i let it, at which point it goes into a limp mode. Before this, i could drive it 3+ hours no problem, so i can only assume it was not overheating beforehand. 

2- When i originally pulled the pan, the fluid was pretty dark, but not black. There was little to nothing on either of the magnets in the pan. 

3- New VB and old VB both have the same stamps on the case, and i matched up the separator plates and cannot visually see any difference in terms of location or blockage of holes

4- I have reset the adaptations each time with my VCDS cable, although to your point other than selecting the banks within, #1 and #2, there is no definitive confirmation. I usually did each one 2-3 times to make sure it reset. I also cleared all fault codes, even though none have shown up. 

You mentioned:
If VBs are truly identical and adaptations were reset each time, you will need to dig deeper and check pressures, log input and output shaft speeds, etc to check for slip conditions.

Is this something i can do with VCDS? Would you be able to give any guidance on where to check and what is considered normal? I know when it's in park or neutral in VCDS i can see there are something like 12-50 slips per minute, and that shoots into the 800's when in drive or reverse, foot on brake without moving, and drops once I lift my foot off the brake and accelerate. Is that what you meant for slip conditions?

Thanks so much!


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## skorell (Aug 28, 2016)

skorell said:


> I believe there should be an in-line thermostat on the coolant hose connecting to the transmission oil cooler. Perhaps the thermostat is not functioning properly or the transmission oil cooler is blocked? I am having similar symptoms after a ATF fluid change. I am fairly confident the level is correct and I will be replacing the in-line thermostat and transmission oil cooler next weekend to see if this resolves my issue.
> 
> 
> In-line Thermostat:
> https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine-volkswagen-audi-parts/in-line-thermostat/1k0121113a/


Quick update on my issue. After replacing the in-line thermostat and AFT cooler I see some improvements. Temperatures are now hovering around 103-106C in stop and go city traffic and around 99-100C when on open highway. Before swapping these out the ATF fluid temperature would hit 124C driving around my neighborhood and then I would stop driving and let it cool down. The thermostat was definitely suspect as was partially open when cold, where as new one was completely closed. The temperature still seems a bit high and may look into an external ATF cooler, but at least it is now driveable.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

Hadaak said:


> temps should not go over 90 I think. Look for the transmission cooler thermostat. I have one on the Touareg with the 09D version. Some folks just delete the thermostat or mod into open mode.
> but you need to make sure you got the right valve body.


Should have checkd this when I mentiined it here. The 09G is a variant of the 09D in the touareg. Some just delete the thermostat.


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## skorell (Aug 28, 2016)

alexplay said:


> A transmission cooler would most likely solve your problem. It did with mine when it was supposedly a mechanical problem (diagnosed by another mechanic), because the code said "Incorrect gear ratio 4th" or something like that, sometimes it said something related to the speed sensor.
> Turns out everything was related to the oil overheating and driving it for a while (like in your case). After I put the trans oil cooler, no more problems, unless I drive it really really hard and it makes the oil overheat more. Even so, it cools pretty fast and goes back to normal in minutes, but under normal driving conditions and even some spirited driving now and then, it never threw any fault codes anymore.


Did you install the cooler yourself? If so, where did you mount it and how much effort was the installation?


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Zaytri said:


> Thanks for the reply!
> 
> To answer a few of your questions:
> 
> ...


Gotcha. From what you describe, it does not sound good. There is a screen on one site of the Cooler in the case that could have been blocked perhaps, but if that was the case, I am guessing you have worse issues now and may not VB related. Could have checked coolant in and out of the oil cooler with a laser therm, but if you are seeing slip conditions, I am guessing the cooler was trying it's best and can not overcome heat from severe slip on any clutch packs.

Yea, I did the same with VCDS and just repeated the procedure a few times 

You can log RPM vs Input Shaft speed, etc from VCDS, but I suspect it will tell you what you already know (as did mine...). To check and log pressure, this needs to be done with external gauges and while driving/shifting (which is a total PITA). There are procedures in the ASTG manual, but there is a lot of info on Sonnax's site (linked to a few times in this thread). Here is a TS section of their site for the 09g. https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/192-aw-6-speed-fwd There are many other pages and articles there too as well as pdf formats.

Also, as you will see on that page they talk about the separator plate codes. On my 2009 CC 09g with both Case mounted AND external oil cooler was H1 (for what its worth). Seemed to correspond to teh case mounted cooler version, BUT, I have to assume other differences due to the different code. 

While you had the VB off, it probably would have been good to do some wet air tests on some of the Clutch packs to see if you are getting leak-by on one or more of the Clutch Piston.

Sounds like you have some bad piston(s), clutch packs, etc.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

skorell said:


> Did you install the cooler yourself? If so, where did you mount it and how much effort was the installation?


My mechanic did it, he mounted the trans radiator in front of the regular radiator, he positioned it on bottom center where the air intake is. He ran the 2 hoses from the radiator to the aftermarket trans cooler piece (which replaced the stock cooler), same size and same positioning, but has 2 holes, one for in (cool) and another for out (hot). 

It took him about 2 days, because in order to correctly support the new radiator some brackets had to be soldered to avoid direct contact of the 2 radiators and have a firmer base (not recommended to use those plastic strap seals and some insulator between both radiators, they will eventually move, rattle and the radiator will fall down due to the vibration), and adapted some nipple connections from the hoses to the radiator, because the hose was too rigid and could not fit all the way in (high temperature gasoline hoses).

The aftermarket trans cooler kit also came with a hose to close the tubing that goes from the coolant reservoir to the stock trans cooler, since it won't be needed to cool the oil anymore, that coolant will just run through this hose and back to the tubing. The hose is just a bypass from one end to the other.

Finally added the extra trans fluid (about half a quarter) that runs through the hoses and radiator tubing to keep the correct fluid level. Check for oil and coolant leaks and was ready to go.

However, I made a great mistake of adding Dexron VI oil, and even with that, the fluid had been losing viscosity over time due to the heat and it's notable (trans sounds harsh and loud when hot). So I'm replacing it with Mobil ATF 3309 which meets VW specs. Hopefully no damage was done to the tranny after all that work.

I would say it's an intermediate job if you have all the necessary tools, most important thing is filling that extra amount and ensuring tight connections without leaks, an unnoticed leak while driving would be catastrophic. Pay attention to the o-ring seal in the aftermarket trans cooler replacement as that's a common leak place too.
Also be careful not to spill coolant inside the tranny after removing the stock cooler and disconnecting the hoses.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

A final update about my story, and I think it will be the last one with this car, since I just simply grew tired of it:

As I mentioned in previous replies, I finally took the decision to put the new oil in it (Mobil 3309 ATF). 6 Liters went out, and the new one in, as a side note: the days before doing that the tranny was sounding a bit harsh when hot, like it was working harder than normal when shifting, losing torque (but not slipping), that's what drove me to change the oil since it was the last thing to do to it.

Continuing, I drove the car home, everything went well, the sound in the tranny was still there, I didn't pay much attention to it since I figured the old oil had to get out of the torque converter and take time to mix with the correct oil, my reasoning was, 2 liters of incorrect oil + 6 liters of correct one should be better than having 8 liters of incorrect oil. So maybe with a bit more driving it should better lubricate the parts. Then after a month of driving just do another oil change and we should be done.

The next day I took the car off for a drive, a really hot day (42º C), immediately after taking the car off the garage and not even at normal operating temperature, the tranny was sounding harsh already. A few more miles ahead I start to notice the 3rd gear is sticking, then sticks in 5th. I park the car for a while, shut it down, turn it on again and PRNDS lights up in the dashboard, put it in D and the car won't move, same with R. No oil leaks, no smell of burning oil, etc. The tranny just slipped. So I call a tow to the mechanic.

Next day the mechanic told me 5 clutch plates burned (the ones that control 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear), the possible culprit was excess of oil pressure and a faulty n88 and n89 solenoid (the small ones), some small o-rings suffered too. The metal shavings had clogged up the transmission filter and lead to it not engaging due to no oil being able to go through. He replaced the clutches, o-rings, the 2 solenoids, calibrated the solenoid springs and put the rest of the oil in it.

Shifting now improved, has no delay when engaging R or D as when the 1st rebuild, no bumps and no erratic shifting in 6th gear now. Just a small bind-up from 2nd to 3rd. He tells me it could be the TCM adapting to the new components, so it should get better with a bit of driving. And indeed, it has got better.

Now, the story is repeating itself, this happened exactly 1 year ago when the tranny was rebuilt. Shifted almost perfectly, no problems whatsoever until 6-8 months ahead, it started with bumps when shifting, sticking gears, PRNDS lighting up and finally an almost catastrophic failure. Not really sure if changing the oil accelerated the process, or having the incorrect oil from the beginning was slowly damaging the transmission. But what I do know is I'm not gonna test my luck again with this transmission so I decided to get rid of the car. I'm better selling it now and avoiding the same problems again 1 year in the future than hoping the tranny won't fail anymore since everything is "correct" now. 

Maybe next owner will get lucky and have a tranny for years without problems after I suffered it through. I will just enjoy it while it last until I sell the car, and have peace of mind instead of wondering if the tranny will fail on me or not and keep flushing money down that tranny. Had I known the tranny could be swapped for a manual transmission, I would have done that from the beginning, however that's just too much money thrown into the car at this point, so I'll better just buy a manual and forget about this money pit.


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## JolieJetta (Nov 21, 2018)

Different issue here than most: Bought an 09 Jetta with nothing wrong w/ the transmission besides a "slight' RPM flare from 3-4. Everything else about the transmission works fairly well (for a VW!). The 3-4 flare happens cold, warm, whatever. Seems to happen at low accel or high accel, doesn't care. I replaced the VB with one from RevMax, and it didn't change anything, the flare is still there. I am fairly certain I got everything installed right. Though what was weird is that the solenoids on the VB I took out where the small type, and the VB I put back in were the big type. that was odd.

I contacted RevMax and they said, "that unit dynoed great! You probably have TF60-SN, "Slipping 3-4 or neutral 3-4". This is because there is a steel ring sleeve on the K2 clutch that goes out, and slips. I guess the longer you let it slip, the more chance it's gonna destroy your transmission.

I'm looking for other opinions or info...

thanks.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

JolieJetta said:


> Different issue here than most: Bought an 09 Jetta with nothing wrong w/ the transmission besides a "slight' RPM flare from 3-4. Everything else about the transmission works fairly well (for a VW!). The 3-4 flare happens cold, warm, whatever. Seems to happen at low accel or high accel, doesn't care. I replaced the VB with one from RevMax, and it didn't change anything, the flare is still there. I am fairly certain I got everything installed right. Though what was weird is that the solenoids on the VB I took out where the small type, and the VB I put back in were the big type. that was odd.
> 
> I contacted RevMax and they said, "that unit dynoed great! You probably have TF60-SN, "Slipping 3-4 or neutral 3-4". This is because there is a steel ring sleeve on the K2 clutch that goes out, and slips. I guess the longer you let it slip, the more chance it's gonna destroy your transmission.
> 
> ...


Sounds like RevMax could be right in your case. A flare is slippage in a clutch pack, could also be a piston seal in the clutch pack leaking. Most likely you are in the market for a rebuild job.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

First of all, the mechanic who suggested an oil cooler for the ATF was correct.
The engine coolant is 190 degrees, and is way too hot to cool off an automatic transmission.
By adding your own cooling system for the Tiptronic alone, by using a heater core, you can significantly reduced automatic overheating, and greatly improve shifting and transmission life.
It does not need a pump.
Convection is sufficient.
My 09G is now running about 90 degrees cooler, and works perfectly.

Second is that the valve body is simply designed wrong and has no tolerances built in, so always needs a modification kit.
Here is one.








From ebay, at:
https://www.ebay.com/i/201968199631?chn=ps
The kit is basically just a half dozen drill bits for enlarging a number of holes in the metal gasket between the valve body layers.
As metal dust accumulates, this is essential.
Since the solenoids also accumulate these metal deposits, they should also be reamed out.
To do that you grind off the sheet metal caps, use the drill bits, and they use the replacement caps to reseal them together again.

I also suggest annual ATF changes, so break off the cap on the factory filler, and add clear acrylic hose to extend it up above the engine where you can reach it under the hood.
It is actually an Aisin transmission, so buy the fluid direct from Aisin and you only have to pay $6/quart instead of 3 times that at a VW dealer.
Same ATF used by Toyotas.


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## Bwebb38804 (Jan 27, 2019)

ciphertext said:


> Pay close attention to the fluid you're buying for your 09G.
> 
> Newer, gen. 2 09G transmissions in 2010+ vehicles use a different fluid than the older 2005.5-2009 units.
> The gen 2 09G uses OE fluid part # G 055 540 A2. There is no aftermarket equivalent to this fluid available Stateside; dealer only.
> ...


They also have different filters. 1st Gen uses the funky shaped metal filter, 2nd Gen filters are black square plastic.


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## Phae Phae (Apr 22, 2008)

Has anyone fixed their transmission completely? Was the problem always the valve body? Which valve body replacement is the best?


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## Spintrips (Jan 9, 2019)

*2007 Jetta 2.5 transmission issue*

My daughter complained about shifting problems with her Jetta. She said it suddenly started shifting erratically and would "bang" when shifting to reverse. The check engine light came on and all of the "PRNDS" lights were lit.
I drove it and saw what she described. 
My code reader came up with codes for transmission speed sensors.
I ended up bringing it to the dealer. They told me the trans wiring harness was broken and it needed a valve body. $2600 parts & labor quoted.
I got on this forum, read the horror stories, and ultimately ordered all the parts to do it myself.
In the meantime, I crawled under the car and discovered a connector to the tranny had broken lock tabs. I cleaned up both halves and put them back together.
Since then, the car has been fine, no bad shifts or warning lights...

Question: What would you do?

Should I replace the Valve body anyway or return it?

She's had the car for about 6 months and it has 103K miles on it.

Thanks!

Al


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

If it is working fine don't open the can of worms. Let it be. Maybe do an oil change and stop there.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

And the dealer didn't even raise the car to check it!


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## Spintrips (Jan 9, 2019)

Hadaak said:


> And the dealer didn't even raise the car to check it!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They probably didn't!

Thanks...


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

And if you do the oil change make sure you use the right oil, go dor oem oil if you're not sure and follow the proper procedure to fill and check oil level.
Ask here if you need documentation or steps and tools.


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## Spintrips (Jan 9, 2019)

Hadaak said:


> And if you do the oil change make sure you use the right oil, go dor oem oil if you're not sure and follow the proper procedure to fill and check oil level.
> Ask here if you need documentation or steps and tools.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hadaak, I've read everything on this forum and in other places about filter and fluid change. I should be OK with that, thanks.
I bought the Valvoline Import Multi-Vehicle ATF that lists the VW spec. That should be OK, right?

In the meantime, I called a different VW dealer's service dept. and gave him my story. He thinks that the connector was probably all that was wrong and that I should not change the valve body if it's running OK.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

Good. Then just drive a few hundred miles before changing the oil just to make sure it is working ok and not blame the oil if it starts behaving bad. I don't know about valvoline but if it list vw specs that should be ok. Give it some 3 or 4 thousand miles to be sure nothing else is wrong before doing the oil service. 


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

And if you have vcds you can log up to 12 measuring blocks while driving just to have some baseline data of what the sensors are reading in case you need a reference point if things start going south down the road. Let me know if you need more info.


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## Spintrips (Jan 9, 2019)

Hadaak said:


> And if you have vcds you can log up to 12 measuring blocks while driving just to have some baseline data of what the sensors are reading in case you need a reference point if things start going south down the road. Let me know if you need more info.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks!:thumbup:


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## #Kraut (Feb 27, 2017)

*Canadian 2011 09G 2nd Gen (MAN) Service*

Hi All, 

I feel as though I should share my experience of servicing my 09G transmission with everyone because it was different from everything I've researched online. 

I have a Canadian market 2011 sportwagen 2.5 with a 2nd generation 09G transmission (bar code has "MAN" in the sequence) with 216,000klm on it (135,000 miles ish). 

*Draining the Transmission*:
I pulled the drain plug and got a drain of 1 liter of fluid when cold (this is above the top level of the check level drain pipe!) The fluid was BLACK...like used engine oil so this was from factory. 
I then pulled the fluid level check pipe and got another 2 liters.
This was concerning because if I fill the transmission and use the recomended procedures, I would be short more than a whole liter of fluid!! 

*Filling the Transmission:*
Luckily on my trans, I found a removable torx bolt with rubber O-ring on the front of the casing where the first gen 09G had a fill tube(with red tamper proof clip). I believe these were eliminated in later generations. (again I had never seen this before online)

The "MAN" series of 09G transmission also uses a different spec ATF and filter than some other generations: 

Fluid spec: G 055 540 A2 (I found an equivalent multi vehicle ATF at Canadian Tire that meets this spec!) Link: (https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/...-vehicle-atf-european-946ml-0281545p.html#srp)
Filter spec: 09G325429B (this filter is meant for the newer low viscosity ATF and has a smaller oval pick-up) link: (https://germanparts.ca/parts/B4393)

These details were important because I ordered a Transmission service kit but it was for the older generation and had the incorrect filter and ATF. Lesson learned: look at the transmission bar code and research what gen it is :thumbup: 

After cleaning the pan and magnets etc. I reinstalled the pan, check level pipe and drain plug. I removed the torx fill bolt and gravity fed a fresh 2 liters into the transmission using some clear tube and funnel. 
I then started the engine and had my father pour in the remaining 1 liter as I shifted through P-R-N-D-S and back stopping for 5 seconds on each. 
We did the fluid install COLD and DIDN'T pull the drain plug because we would've lost most of the clean fluid. 

The shifting is much improved already but more fluid changes will be required in the near future as only 3 out of 7 liters was replaced. 

If you have any questions or need more detail for your own situation, I'll do my best to help out and answer. 

Thanks!!


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## gstsaver13 (Mar 28, 2019)

Ok - I read all 24 pages on this but still don't feel there is an answer to how to know if it is valve body related or the TCM ?

I only have the cheap OBDII reader but my DTC are 17104 and 04805 

I believe the 17104 is output speed señor related but assume if valve bodies are bad and shifting improperly this will come up.

Symptoms:

-Shifts really bad bangs into gear (mostly 1-2 and 3-4) sometimes can't seem to even shift just revs.

-However if I clear the codes it seems to shift fine for a while


Questions:

-anyone know what 04805 code is ?
-is there a specific diagnostic method to know if it is the TCM or mechanical (valve body/solenoids)?
-why would resetting the codes make it shift better? If it is solenoids and valve body wouldn't it just shift bad every time ? (or at least every time as soon as it heats up?)


Please let me know your thoughts. I bought the car for my daughter to learn to drive on and will just sell it if I can't fix the transmission issue.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

Clearing the codes could be taking the gearbox out of limp mode temporarily, where torque is reduced due to high temperature hence making it shift normally but at the expense of causing more damage to the clutch plates due to increased friction / less lubrication. As soon as the TCM detects the problem, it puts it in limp mode again to avoid further damage.

TCM is rarely the problem, shift banging and revving without speeding up is clutch plate slipping, some of them lost the friction material, probably burned up due to old and overheated oil.
I suggest taking it for a in-depth scan to a mechanic who has the real deal device, where it will give you tranny oil temperature, voltage, solenoid engagement, oil pressure and shift curves. And complete it with a look inside the transmission, look for clutch material in the oil pan and burned oil.

First, Try the easiest and cheapest that would be changing the oil gradually, oil filter and installing an external oil cooler, about 250$ in parts plus labor. By gradually I mean drain about 3 to 4 liters which is what would come out at most, since the rest lies inside the torque converter and inner parts of the tranny. Drive it around 100 miles to get the oil mixed up, then repeat the process until you have a good red-looking oil. I suggest the external oil cooler and oil filter before doing this, otherwise you will overheat the new oil.

Don't underestimate the efficiency of an external oil cooler in this transmission. After I installed mine, I consistently get around 75°C for trans oil temperature, compared to the usual 110-120°C stock. This is a significant improvement and will extend the life of the oil.



gstsaver13 said:


> Ok - I read all 24 pages on this but still don't feel there is an answer to how to know if it is valve body related or the TCM ?
> 
> I only have the cheap OBDII reader but my DTC are 17104 and 04805
> 
> ...


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

gstsaver13 said:


> Please let me know your thoughts. I bought the car for my daughter to learn to drive on and will just sell it if I can't fix the transmission issue.


First I would do as alexplay said above, change the fluid and see what is in the bottom of the pan. 
You have the classic problem of not shifting well after the fluid is hot. 
A new set of the small can style solenoids may help but if the friction clutches are worn out then you will need a complete transmission rebuild. You will need to spend around $300 on new solenoids, don't get some junk rebuilt ones.


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## gstsaver13 (Mar 28, 2019)

Drove it for over a hour and it shifted abosutley perfect now. 
If when hot it is causing the solenoids to stick it should have done it by now. A mechanical part isn't generally sporadic ...
Very confusing.


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## troystg (May 15, 2012)

alexplay said:


> ...Don't underestimate the efficiency of an external oil cooler in this transmission. After I installed mine, I consistently get around 75°C for trans oil temperature, compared to the usual 110-120°C stock. This is a significant improvement and will extend the life of the oil....


What oil cooler did you use and have any pictures of the install?

Did you cut and splice the lines to the radiator or replace with new different ones? Are the coolers in parallel or series? If series which is first the radiator or your added external?

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## gstsaver13 (Mar 28, 2019)

*Output Speed Sensor*

Has anyone had the Output Speed Sensor code come up ?

I just wonder if it comes up when there are other transmission problems or if that can actually be the problem ?


Would be great if that was the problem but curious what others have found out.


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## gstsaver13 (Mar 28, 2019)

Anyone have any input on this ?


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## BadBoyBeetle (Apr 11, 2019)

*Solenoid Job not Holding*



bent_rod said:


> Here is my experience with the TransGo kit.
> The kit contains a drill bit that is used to ream out the bushings inside the solenoid valves. After you have ground off the ends of the old solenoid cans. After "cleaning" the bushings new caps are pressed onto the solenoid ends. The kit also has a new bushing & valve assembly that is installed in the TCC Regulator bore along with the old spring & valve. Three smaller drill bits are included to drill out holes in the separator plates. Instructions Note: "Enlarging these holes allows for the normal wear in solenoid to valve control circuits and creates a more positive signal between solenoids and valves."
> After installing one of the TransGo kits and clearing the shift adapts the transmission shifted great. But it was never able to learn to shift without a small bump between N and D the first thing after starting the car. I found that the K1 clutch pressure was too low. Possible N92 Solenoid problem? I have no idea what went wrong with the rebuild of the solenoids using the TransGo kit. But nothing helped to eliminate the bump.
> Next I installing a set of new small can solenoids I got from eBay seller vwpartfl. They completely eliminate the N to D delay bump and all shifts are great!
> ...


I just acquired a 2004 Beetle 1.8 Turbo Convertible from an auction. One of the silliest things I've ever done. So I haven't had the bug for very long because as soon as I picked it up, it started to give me problems. My problem is the trans wont engage 4th, it revs and goes back to 3rd and I was getting "gear 4 out of ratio" code. Between 1st and 3rd there were no problems. So I did the first thing most people do, I flushed the trans and used VW fluid from the dealership but nothing changed. So before I got on this forum I read in another forum that a solenoid was possibly causing this issued. I replaced all the solenoids with a rebuilt set from Amazon. Also nothing changed. Then I read in another forum that the T2 clutch is known for causing this symptom due to a bad clutch sleeve that causes leakage and a repair kit from Sonnax could be the solution. Unfortunately I sent for the kit before testing the clutch because once tested it seems to be working just fine when air pressure is applied. After reading ALL the great info posted here, I'm not sure which way to go now. If the clutch is working why mess with it, right? There seems to be a leak around the cooler on top of the trans and I can smell coolant after driving the car for a few blocks. I'm definitely learning tons from this forum, by far the most accurate and informative I have found to this point. I know there are a few more things I need to check before I continue to replace parts. After reading that some people solved their problems fixing connectors, cooler, resetting shifting, etc., I think I should try some of those solutions before swapping more parts but I was almost ready to try rebuilding the VB using the small can solenoids as you suggested above. I just haven't seen postings addressing my particular problem and that provided possible solutions. It seems that most problems are related to issues with 1-2 gears and rough shifting, etc. Have you seen problems like mine or do you have any suggestions/ideas of things I can try that could possibly help me find a solution?


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## BadBoyBeetle (Apr 11, 2019)

*Solenoid Job not Holding*



BadBoyBeetle said:


> I just acquired a 2004 Beetle 1.8 Turbo Convertible from an auction. One of the silliest things I've ever done. So I haven't had the bug for very long because as soon as I picked it up, it started to give me problems. My problem is the trans wont engage 4th, it revs and goes back to 3rd and I was getting "gear 4 out of ratio" code. Between 1st and 3rd there were no problems. So I did the first thing most people do, I flushed the trans and used VW fluid from the dealership but nothing changed. So before I got on this forum I read in another forum that a solenoid was possibly causing this issued. I replaced all the solenoids with a rebuilt set from Amazon. Also nothing changed. Then I read in another forum that the T2 clutch is known for causing this symptom due to a bad clutch sleeve that causes leakage and a repair kit from Sonnax could be the solution. Unfortunately I sent for the kit before testing the clutch because once tested it seems to be working just fine when air pressure is applied. After reading ALL the great info posted here, I'm not sure which way to go now. If the clutch is working why mess with it, right? There seems to be a leak around the cooler on top of the trans and I can smell coolant after driving the car for a few blocks. I'm definitely learning tons from this forum, by far the most accurate and informative I have found to this point. I know there are a few more things I need to check before I continue to replace parts. After reading that some people solved their problems fixing connectors, cooler, resetting shifting, etc., I think I should try some of those solutions before swapping more parts but I was almost ready to try rebuilding the VB using the small can solenoids as you suggested above. I just haven't seen postings addressing my particular problem and that provided possible solutions. It seems that most problems are related to issues with 1-2 gears and rough shifting, etc. Have you seen problems like mine or do you have any suggestions/ideas of things I can try that could possibly help me find a solution?


I should add that if driving at enough speed while on 3rd, the gage shows it shifting into 4th, 5th, and 6th but the gears are actually not engaging. It just revs and when I take my foot off the gas, goes back to 3rd.


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## alexplay (Sep 10, 2017)

First, I bought this adaptor:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-09G-Tra...daptor-It-Lowers-the-Trans-Temp-/272774415670

It will replace the stock cooler, so the transmission oil is 100% cooled by air. There's a hose to bypass the coolant and return it to itself.

About the radiator itself, I bought a no-name one similar to this (but with 8 tubes and a bit larger): 
https://b.cdnbrm.com/images/product...ersal_translife_transmission_coolers_hero.jpg

I bought about 4 meters of high pressure/temp gas hoses to fit them to the adaptor to the radiator.
Bought some mounting brackets and soddered it to the car's frame as to mount the radiator, it's the first radiator facing the air intake (when you look at the front bumper, it's the first radiator you see), leave some spacing between the stock radiator.

Hot trans oil goes through the lowest point in the radiator and then up, as to maximize the air that is received while driving, it was done that way because part of the upper part of the radiator is covered by the bumper.

Don't forget to add the extra volume of oil that passes through the hoses and radiator. Use a cylinder volume calculator if you want to be scientific and add the exact amount. It's about 100ml more.



troystg said:


> What oil cooler did you use and have any pictures of the install?
> 
> Did you cut and splice the lines to the radiator or replace with new different ones? Are the coolers in parallel or series? If series which is first the radiator or your added external?
> 
> Sent using Tapatalk


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## BadBoyBeetle (Apr 11, 2019)

Has anyone else seen anything like the problem I'm having with my 2004 beetle 1.8 Turbo? 1 through 3 it shifts normal, 4 through 6 I get nothing. The gear gage on the dash shows it moving into 4 though 6 if I pick up enough speed but it is actually not engaging. As soon as I let my foot off the gas it goes into 3rd. When I scan the ECU OR TCM all I get is "gear 4 out of ratio". I replaced all solenoids, I was going to replace K2 clutch sleeve with the kit from Sonnax but I pressure tested the clutch and it seems to be working fine. Could there be a different reason to be without 4, 5, and 6? I've been following these vwvortex forums and although they are so informative, I haven't seen many cases like mine. Most problems are with lower gears and rough shifting. Mine is not making weird loud noises or any rough bumps or anything like that. When I first drained the fluid although it was pretty dark, there was no metal at all, not even small particles. I'm using the VW fluid they gave me at the dealership for my bug. I also thought about doing a VB rebuilt using small can solenoids but I haven't seen any posts of anyone with my same problem having solved it doing so. One thing I think I haven't been very careful with is watching the fluid temp while refilling and having the bug on while doing it. But I had it on when I checked the level. So it was on and I shifted through when I checked to made sure the level was OK.
Does anyone have any suggestions or could point me in any direction on what to try next?


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## gstsaver13 (Mar 28, 2019)

*Output Speed Sensor ??*

Hi Guys - still having shifting issues with my 09G even after changing filter and fluid (3 times to makes sure it is all out). It doesn't happen all the time...sometimes can drive for a couple hours and it shifts perfect and other times it starts shifting really bad after only 10 minutes.
The bad shifts are generally 1-2 and 3-4 and downshifting in those gears as well.

The only code coming up is the OUTPUT speed sensor. Has anyone had this actually be an issue. I assume that code comes up always when there is shifting issues ? 

Any input would be appreciated.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

*Ravenol J1D2108-004 ATF*

Think I will try this Ravenol J1D2108-004 ATF for my next change.
"Specifically engineered for Aisin AW transverse and inline 6-speed automatic transmissions for popular applications like Volkswagen/Audi....."
"Provides high thermal stability even when the transmission is subjected to extreme conditions"

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QEDFIOA


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## troystg (May 15, 2012)

bent_rod said:


> Think I will try this Ravenol J1D2108-004 ATF for my next change.
> "Specifically engineered for Aisin AW transverse and inline 6-speed automatic transmissions for popular applications like Volkswagen/Audi....."
> "Provides high thermal stability even when the transmission is subjected to extreme conditions"
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00QEDFIOA


Thanks for the link, I just bought 2..  Both the wife's Tiglean and my Passat are due...

Side question, I used the Lucas fuel injector cleaner occasionally and find it does work. Has anyone tried the Lucas transmission fix fluid? I bought a bottle but haven't put it in yet.

https://lucasoil.com/products/transmission-products/lucas-transmission-fix

Sent using Tapatalk


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

troystg said:


> Side question, I used the Lucas fuel injector cleaner occasionally and find it does work. Has anyone tried the Lucas transmission fix fluid? I bought a bottle but haven't put it in yet.


Over the last 50 years, I have used all kinds of transmission treatments, none have helped with transmission problems that I could tell. Some people say they have had success, maybe. Most all are snake oil, feel-good treatments. It makes the seller feel good to get your money. 
If the Lucus Fix is thick like their engine oil treatment, don't put it in the transmission. The 09G is made to work with a thin fluid. As others have found when the ATF overheats that is when problems start. I just keep the ATF changed often and never add anything extra. 
Only my 2 cents worth.


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## umeng2002 (Jul 9, 2003)

Most of my complaints from this transmission is due to the programing. Adaptive shifting is beyond stupid when, who would guess, more than one person drives a car. Two different Jettas and both of them had the same issues. Upshifting is sometimes a tad too long, and downshifting is too hard. These "annoyances" start around 30k miles.


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## Kerkian (Feb 13, 2018)

BadBoyBeetle said:


> I should add that if driving at enough speed while on 3rd, the gage shows it shifting into 4th, 5th, and 6th but the gears are actually not engaging. It just revs and when I take my foot off the gas, goes back to 3rd.


In your previous post you stated that the pressure (65- 95 psi) to the K2 clutch was ok to activate 4th gear then the issue maybe related to a spun support sleeve.
Check to see if this may be the case.

I have a similar issue with the car going into neutral after a slight flare on up-shift from 3rd to 4th. I


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## fernando306 (Nov 5, 2016)

*Two valve bodies put in but still not quite right.*

Hello everyone,

I've been reading this forum for a long time, and decided to replace myself the VB on my 09G - did it twice. 

Before VB replacement, very rough 3-2, bump from N-D and N-R, limp mode occasionally. P0733 error code.

First VB I put in fixed all the bumpiness but had flared 2-3 and 3-4 (up to 1500 RPM!).

Second VB, all great except that 1-2 is bumpy when the trans is WARMING... 
If COLD = Perfect, if HOT = Fine, but within the transition from cold to hot (5 minutes driving), 1-2 becomes very bumpy and annoying. 

No mode error codes however.

Questions:

1 - Is the VB from Streetsmart good?
2 - Did I do the VCDS reset procedure correctly? (please check at the end of the video)
3 - Is there anything but the valve body that can cause this 1-2 bumpy when warming, but fine cold and hot? 

Thanks!


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## ronaldrover (Dec 3, 2012)

*Replace the entire VB or just the Solenoids?*

Good morning,

I've read about 10 pages of this thread which was very helpful but honestly quite overwhelming. My transmission shifts fine when cold but after 20mins or so once warm it tends to shift harshly (slip bang) from 1-2, 2-3, and rarely from 3-4. Once warm the down shifts are also not as smooth. It's also worth mentioning that I have changed the transmission fluid, filter, and gasket about 6 months ago with no improvements. From my understanding a rebuilt VB will most likely fix my issue, but it seems that replacing the solenoids might be a cheaper alternative with a fair amount of good success rate. I've heard that the "bores" or whatever can wear out which would require a VB rebuilt (not sure what symptoms this causes). With that being said can someone please suggest the best way to handle this? I'm broke so if I can get away with replacing the solenoids, I'd rather go that route. One more question, since I've been driving with this issue for about 2 years now, could I have caused damage to any other components such the gears?

Thank you in advance! (I hope I get a reply, the thread seems to be inactive)


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## Sam_40 (Sep 14, 2018)

I found this on youtube and the guy covered everything regarding the 09G including making his own tools to fix the VB and how to flush, adaptation....etc. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G42XMC-QAs&t=4s

check it out.


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## SpazzyD (Feb 8, 2018)

Sam_40 said:


> I found this on youtube and the guy covered everything regarding the 09G including making his own tools to fix the VB and how to flush, adaptation....etc.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G42XMC-QAs&t=4s
> 
> check it out.


Watched it! That was some damn nice lathing work on his part. I want to message him and ask if he would like to sell those VB tools


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## rnaidoo99 (Sep 16, 2015)

*09G Problems SOLVED*

Hey,

I solved the 09G problems over the course of 2 years. This is what I did:

I had flares, bangs, bumps the works. I wanted to scrap the car 2 years ago but I weirdly liked this 2.5L engine ( I also solved mpg problems and power problems with this engine too - it now drives like my BMW 128i)

What I did: 

-	First measured temperatures with VCDS:
-	Cold – 75DegC ATF shifts were perfect
-	Above 80DegC – tranny went to hell

I tried to solve why the temperature was so high (Max measured 120DegC, at 130DegC the computer puts the tranny into limp mode 3rd gear ) by checking anything related. This is what I found:

-	Rear brakes were sticking (common VW problem) – fixed this and the ATF max temp drop to 100C
-	Removed inline coolant thermostat to the heat exchanger – ATF Max temp dropped to 90DegC
- Replaced ATF fluid and filter 2 twice and added liquimoly ATF additive (250ml)
- I Replaced the valve body with a supposably rebuilt one from ebay - (I doubt it was rebuilt but it was slightly better than my original in terms of shifting)
-	I then Added TranCool transmission kit for 09G - https://www.trancool.com/complete_kits/kit_aisin_round.html
-	This a a Russian/Polish website that provides complete cooling kits for 09G tranny (replaces heat exchanger)
-	I added this kit and it dropped my ATF max temp to 65-70C under tremendous load  

My car Jetta 2.5L 09G 6speed is at 300,000KM and drives perfectly after hours of driving in city, highway and traffic!!!!
Hope this helps a bunch of you.

I would say do the solenoids and or valve body absolutely last as its the most expensive and I barely saw any improvement. Im sure my old valve body and solenoids would work fine as it went to hell also after 80DegC too.

MY 09G is SOLVED and the above should solve a lot out there!


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

ronaldrover said:


> Good morning,
> 
> I've read about 10 pages of this thread which was very helpful but honestly quite overwhelming. My transmission shifts fine when cold but after 20mins or so once warm it tends to shift harshly (slip bang) from 1-2, 2-3, and rarely from 3-4. Once warm the down shifts are also not as smooth. It's also worth mentioning that I have changed the transmission fluid, filter, and gasket about 6 months ago with no improvements. From my understanding a rebuilt VB will most likely fix my issue, but it seems that replacing the solenoids might be a cheaper alternative with a fair amount of good success rate. I've heard that the "bores" or whatever can wear out which would require a VB rebuilt (not sure what symptoms this causes). With that being said can someone please suggest the best way to handle this? I'm broke so if I can get away with replacing the solenoids, I'd rather go that route. One more question, since I've been driving with this issue for about 2 years now, could I have caused damage to any other components such the gears?
> 
> Thank you in advance! (I hope I get a reply, the thread seems to be inactive)



I had a similar issue. I ended up replacing the solenoids. There is a way to check if the solenoids are in good condition. Check my previous replies.


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## [email protected] (Feb 20, 2020)

Hi new to the forum thing, hope I am doing it correctly. I have 2008 Audi A3 2.0FSI with a 09g transmission, I just overhauled the engine and drive the car for about 80km and while driving the car just got stuck on 4th. I stopped the car and it just revved up and wasn't moving while on drive, now it does not move if you put it on drive or even reverse.

Please help


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## malt0se (Jun 2, 2013)

bent_rod said:


> First I would do as alexplay said above, change the fluid and see what is in the bottom of the pan.
> You have the classic problem of not shifting well after the fluid is hot.
> A new set of the small can style solenoids may help but if the friction clutches are worn out then you will need a complete transmission rebuild. You will need to spend around $300 on new solenoids, don't get some junk rebuilt ones.


what do new solenoids do that the shift kit doesnt? I am thinking about trying the shift kit and if that doesnt work doing new solenoids but maybe it would be better to just do the solenoids


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## jtz54 (Dec 14, 2009)

*Update on my 09G transmission issues*



jtz54 said:


> Keeping my fingers crossed. The person who did the VCSD scan on the car did 3 firmware updates to the ECU. The mechanic also replaced the MAP sensor because of the code it was throwing (P106 can also be caused by ECU software too sensitive). Drove all over Phoenix yesterday in 110° heat and the car did not have the clunky downshifting or the CEL or wrench icon popping up. If the problems don't show up over the next week I'll consider the problem fixed. Funny, I asked the stealership specifically if there were any firmware updates for the car and was told NO, your car needs the VB replaced for $2200.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


So it's been 25K miles since this was done and while it didn't eliminate the problem it was much improved to where I decided to live with it. In the last month the issue had gotten worse and pretty much back to the original problem. I took it to the local VW repair and had the fluid changed and added a pint of LubeGard universal transmission protectant since it seemed to help before. Things were marginally better after the fluid change but it would still occasionally clunk coming to a stop and the wrench icon would appear and the gear indicator "D" would disappear as before.

Since I didn't want to put any more money into this problem I figured what else could it be? Transmission control module? I know I had looked for it before and most info said it was inside the left front fender but I never did see it. I opened the hood and picked out the two obvious computer modules and used a can of Deoxit contact cleaner on both sides of the connectors. *So going on three weeks now and ZERO issues with the transmission clunking or the wrench icon coming up.* Could this have been the problem all along??? Would like to know if the modules I've identified are really what they are...........


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## Grey2017Jetta (Mar 19, 2020)

#Kraut said:


> Filter spec: 09G325429B (this filter is meant for the newer low viscosity ATF
> 
> If you have any questions or need more detail for your own situation, I'll do my best to help out and answer.
> 
> Thanks!!



interesting...... So, what is different about this filter than the other that you remember? Two things come to mind to me. 1) The older filter has bigger holes in it and can not filter finer particles, which means your oil becomes sandpaper, or, 2) the newer filter is of the same mesh but has a higher number of pleats?

What did you notice?

Thanks


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## Grey2017Jetta (Mar 19, 2020)

Is there any reason no one jumped in here with a 2016+ tranny or just a cowinkydink?


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

*All 09G transmissions need kit*

Do not bother getting a new valve body for the 09G transmission because it also will not last.
The problem is the valve body drilled holes in the plate between halves, are too small in some places, and quickly get clogged with metallic paste sediment from the differential gears.
The ONLY solution is to refactor the valve body plate holes yourself, with one of the kits available.
Essentially the kit is a set of drill bits and instructions.

https://www.ebay.com/i/190779798790...MIx8OMv9a56AIVOffjBx33JQngEAQYAiABEgKqS_D_BwE










In my experience, all 09G transmission need it, and it works to fix all of them I have done.
And I have done half a dozen by now.
The kit is only about $70 and does not require tranmission removal.
Just drop the valve body after removing the pan.

I also suggest adding an acrylic tube to the capped over factory filler port at the front of the transmission, so you can easily drain, and refill, without the silly pump mechanism from underneath.
You should be changing ATF every other year.
And get your ATF directly from Asin, the the Japanese maker of the 09G for only about $6/quart.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

Grey2017Jetta said:


> Is there any reason no one jumped in here with a 2016+ tranny or just a cowinkydink?


The 09G was replaced with the DSG transmission at some time around 2007 or so, and the DSG does not have the same problems.
But the 09G is not just used in VWs. It is a Japanese transmission by Asin, and it also used on BMWs, like the MiniCooper. It is also used in Toyotas.

The transmission is not really defective in design, but is built to be flushed often so that sludge can not built up, and VW goofed and for some reason told its dealers to not change fluid ever year, like they should.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

malt0se said:


> what do new solenoids do that the shift kit doesnt? I am thinking about trying the shift kit and if that doesnt work doing new solenoids but maybe it would be better to just do the solenoids


There is likely nothing wrong with the existing solenoids, but it is just that the valve they are suppose to open is clogged up with metallic paste sludge from the differential gears.
The valve body kit comes with new solenoid caps to replace the ones you have to grind off, so you can ream the solenoids out.
Rebuilding the solenoids like that works fine as long as they are not electrically burned out.
Getting NEW solenoids is far riskier because there are at least 2 variants, and it is easy to get the wrong ones, even from the dealer.
Remember, the 09G is a Japanese Asin transmission, and VW is not the maker or supplier of it, so does not always know or track which variant was put into your particular VW vehicle.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

allenyang said:


> I had a similar issue. I ended up replacing the solenoids. There is a way to check if the solenoids are in good condition. Check my previous replies.


There is not way to check the solenoids because the valve they are suppose to open gets clogged with metallic sludge from the differential gears.
You just have to grind the caps off, ream them out, and press new caps on that come with the kit.
But also do all the drillings specified in the kit.
The tiny original drilling as almost microscopic, and much too easily clogged up.

And by the way, clunking is a sign of an automatic working well.
The faster it shifts from one gear to another, the better.
The PROBLEM with the 09G is when the valve body gets clogged and you hear the whining sound of slipping.
That is when you have to stop driving it.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

BadBoyBeetle said:


> I just acquired a 2004 Beetle 1.8 Turbo Convertible from an auction. One of the silliest things I've ever done. So I haven't had the bug for very long because as soon as I picked it up, it started to give me problems. My problem is the trans wont engage 4th, it revs and goes back to 3rd and I was getting "gear 4 out of ratio" code. Between 1st and 3rd there were no problems. So I did the first thing most people do, I flushed the trans and used VW fluid from the dealership but nothing changed. So before I got on this forum I read in another forum that a solenoid was possibly causing this issued. I replaced all the solenoids with a rebuilt set from Amazon. Also nothing changed. Then I read in another forum that the T2 clutch is known for causing this symptom due to a bad clutch sleeve that causes leakage and a repair kit from Sonnax could be the solution. Unfortunately I sent for the kit before testing the clutch because once tested it seems to be working just fine when air pressure is applied. After reading ALL the great info posted here, I'm not sure which way to go now. If the clutch is working why mess with it, right? There seems to be a leak around the cooler on top of the trans and I can smell coolant after driving the car for a few blocks. I'm definitely learning tons from this forum, by far the most accurate and informative I have found to this point. I know there are a few more things I need to check before I continue to replace parts. After reading that some people solved their problems fixing connectors, cooler, resetting shifting, etc., I think I should try some of those solutions before swapping more parts but I was almost ready to try rebuilding the VB using the small can solenoids as you suggested above. I just haven't seen postings addressing my particular problem and that provided possible solutions. It seems that most problems are related to issues with 1-2 gears and rough shifting, etc. Have you seen problems like mine or do you have any suggestions/ideas of things I can try that could possibly help me find a solution?



I already posted the repair kit I have been successfully using.
But you will also notice the transmission works best when cold.
So then you should wonder why they put hot coolant from the engine, into the transmission cooler?
That is gong to heat it up, not cool it down.
So what I did was to add a heater core as a cooler for the transmission totally separated from the engine coolant.
No pump is needed since convention and conduction is all that is needed.
It will run about 90 degrees cooler, so then will work much better.


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## allenyang (Jan 9, 2018)

Actually, there is a way
https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/113-aisin-aw-linear-solenoids

I tested the good solenoid and the bad one. Just as described in the link




kirk_augustin said:


> There is not way to check the solenoids because the valve they are suppose to open gets clogged with metallic sludge from the differential gears.
> You just have to grind the caps off, ream them out, and press new caps on that come with the kit.
> But also do all the drillings specified in the kit.
> The tiny original drilling as almost microscopic, and much too easily clogged up.
> ...


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

deluxman said:


> So how do you do that? Do you wait until the thermostat is normal, then you open the drain plug, then measure the temperature of the excess fluid? Or do you point the infrared to the oil pan?



No, you do NOT want the vehicle up to operating temperature.
That is 190 degrees, as the ATF is heated by the engine coolant, and the ATF will be scalding and way too hot.
Technically you just want the ATF warm, and the ODBII reader will tell the exact temperature.
But don't bother.
If you check it cold, it will be only slightly over filled, and that is a good thing.

By the way, the Tiptronic is actually a Japanese Aisin, so Toyota T-IV is better ATF and only $6/quart.
The transaxle must have an ATF change every other year, and can not be sealed for life, as VW incorrectly claimed.

The other advice is to remove and shunt the engine coolant lines to the ATF cooler, and add an external cooler instead.
It can be water or oil, depending on how much work you want to do.
Water is easier and you do not need a pump since it will move by convection.
An external oil cooler requires changing tubing above the valve body, but it is set up for an external oil cooler.

By way, it is also much easier to refill and top up if you crack off the cap on the factory oil filler port in the front of the casing, just above the pan.
You can than extend the filler port with a 1" diameter acrylic tubing, about 2' long, with a removable plug.


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## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

allenyang said:


> Actually, there is a way
> https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/113-aisin-aw-linear-solenoids
> 
> I tested the good solenoid and the bad one. Just as described in the link


You can test if a solenoid is burned out, but almost always they are just partially clogged, so impossible to test.


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## Hadaak (Aug 17, 2013)

Another helpful link:


https://rostrapowertrain.com/2018/05/aisin-warner-09g-electronics-anatomy-of-shift-controls/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vr6pilot (Jul 5, 2000)

My 09G, in a 2009 VW CC, just decided it doesn't wanna play anymore.

Pulling out of the neighborhood, it just dropped out of gear and will NOT go back into any gear. I coasted to the side of the road, walked home and got the truck and tow strap and dragged it home.

Pulled codes. I got P720, Output Speed Sensor Circuit. Opened the trans and replaced the sensor. Did a new filter and fluid while there. No change.

Putting the car in gear does literally nothing. The engine revs but the wheels do not spin. Doesn't matter which gear I select.

Ideas??


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## umeng2002 (Jul 9, 2003)

Does if throw the same code after you replaced the sensor? If it does, maybe the tranny is just shot and the ECU is throwing that code because it's not detecting the right output speed.


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## scubieman (Jun 3, 2020)

kids car wont move, it would go in and out of gear, got home it wont move at all, i figured valve body and replaced it. I bought reman off ebay that has smaller solenoids that seller said would work better than large ones.

So today if i let car sit for awhile it will go into gear and reverse and drive will work, once i put into park none of the gears will work anymore and it will not move. I tried checking fluid and everything seems fine, i tried adding extra and removing some to see if thats helps but doesnt. I figured fluid level isnt quite right because of gears not 100% working.

So does anyone know why cars only work after sitting for about a hour or so? like i said they stop working after i put into park.

Thanks,

2005 vw jetta with 2.5l tranmission has new valve body, and new fluid and filter.


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## bent_rod (Jan 2, 2015)

scubieman said:


> kids car wont move, it would go in and out of gear, got home it wont move at all, i figured valve body and replaced it. I bought reman off ebay that has smaller solenoids that seller said would work better than large ones.
> 
> So today if i let car sit for awhile it will go into gear and reverse and drive will work, once i put into park none of the gears will work anymore and it will not move. I tried checking fluid and everything seems fine, i tried adding extra and removing some to see if thats helps but doesnt. I figured fluid level isnt quite right because of gears not 100% working.
> 
> ...


Could be the fluid is thicker after it cools down some and will produce more pressure. Sounds like you have low line pressure. Best way to check this is with a pressure gauge and test the pressure. ATSG VW09G/09M Transmission Technical Manual available on ebay, will give the location of pressure ports and what pressure to expect. Could be a seal on a clutch piston is leaking or a clutch pack worn out. Most likely time for a rebuilt transmission or a used transmission.


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## Js428623 (Jul 14, 2018)

kirk_augustin said:


> No, you do NOT want the vehicle up to operating temperature.
> That is 190 degrees, as the ATF is heated by the engine coolant, and the ATF will be scalding and way too hot.
> Technically you just want the ATF warm, and the ODBII reader will tell the exact temperature.
> But don't bother.
> ...


Using Toyota atf sounds way better than using $25 a quart bs, also the filter is $100+ does that sound right?


kirk_augustin said:


> The 09G was replaced with the DSG transmission at some time around 2007 or so, and the DSG does not have the same problems.
> But the 09G is not just used in VWs. It is a Japanese transmission by Asin, and it also used on BMWs, like the MiniCooper. It is also used in Toyotas.
> 
> The transmission is not really defective in design, but is built to be flushed often so that sludge can not built up, and VW goofed and for some reason told its dealers to not change fluid ever year, like they should.


my 2016 Golf has the o9g, never had it changed and it’s at 38k looking to change it before I go i Is38 on the poor basturd


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## Js428623 (Jul 14, 2018)

Grey2017Jetta said:


> interesting...... So, what is different about this filter than the other that you remember? Two things come to mind to me. 1) The older filter has bigger holes in it and can not filter finer particles, which means your oil becomes sandpaper, or, 2) the newer filter is of the same mesh but has a higher number of pleats?
> 
> What did you notice?
> 
> Thanks


Is there a link to the recommended filter?


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## umeng2002 (Jul 9, 2003)

Get the transmission code off your options sticker (trunk body). It's 3 letters. ECS tunning has a decent selection of 09G filters and lists them based off the option code.


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## Outlaw Immotal (Jul 4, 2021)

bjohns86 said:


> Sphak, So just wanted to throw out my experience with the 09 G I have MK 6 2012 Jetta with 148,000 mi. I first felt this shift bump between shifts like 3rd to 4th gear after a long road trip in the middle of last summer. I would say heat definitely plays a role in this shifting problem it has gotten worse over the last 6 months.. now it is sometimes a scary shift bump like it's going to rip the car apart. anyhow I have stage 1 ECU and TCU tuning from integrated engineering and my car when cool still to this day as long as it's cool and not warmed up alot it runs 5.8 seconds 0 to 60 It runs like a freaking raped ape it's awesome. however once it's warmed up for 10 or 15 minutes it does that crazy shift bump could be between first and second could be third fourth could be the 6th it doesn't matter it does it eratically when it's hot. I'm going to try some of this shift learning that I've been reading about here with the TCM but otherwise I'm just going to replace this whole motherfng unit and keep on asking
> Thank you for the postings. They lend some alternative insights into the 09G. This would have been much more appreciated 3 years ago beofre I made a tool, but that is how it goes. The pdf is also nice, however, realize that this transmission doesn't need any special tools, besides the one requred to fill the pan and, of course, a scanner. If you have general transmission rebuilding tools than you will set to go. Also, in regards to the VB replacement, I wouldn't be too worried as the chance of you getting a VB with issues is rather slim. I have built 6, 09G units and haven't had such a problem, but it is possible. Now there are ways to fix these issues, but I have omitted them in the postings here because of the liability of sorts. Since this issue of 09G VB's is such a big topic I may write a post focused solely on my experiences with this VB, such as identification, function, and troublespots and what your options are. Again, I have only rebuilt 6 of these particular units but I have been intrigued with this unit because of how mysterious it is. Aisin-Warner don't really have good luck with VB's and the 09G is no exception, however, AW makes other transmissions that have many, many more VB complaints than the 09G! At the end of the day, in terms of high-quality foreign transmissions, ZF is still king. If you think that such a post specifically focusing on the VB information mentioned above is good idea, let me know. Anyone can respond to this as well. Thanks again for the information in your last post.


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## Outlaw Immotal (Jul 4, 2021)

I would also like to throw out there that I ran everything from Valvoline maxlife to straight up a 90 weight gear oil that has almost same specs as oem fluid btw Ive tried all kinds of different fluids in this transmission it doesn't make a huge difference


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## Outlaw Immotal (Jul 4, 2021)

also wanted to mention that the only thing that really helped at all was squeezing in a couple $10 tubes of instant shudder fix by lubegard.


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## Fearless Vampire Killer (Jun 12, 2017)

I have read through all pages of this thread, and am really interested in the remote ATF cooler, but I can find NOTHING else about it, anywhere. Where to source/part numbers etc. I will be doing a cross country road trip in the future and would like to get this done prior to keep the 09G's temp down. 

Any help/advice would be much appreciated.

-FVK


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## 1998JettaK2 (Oct 28, 2003)

Whats everyone go-to for a valve body replacement? Ive got the transmission bump when slowing down and 1-2 jerky shift. No slipping yet. Its a 2014 JSW 2.5


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## tmurphy105 (Aug 11, 2021)

I bought a 2010 golf with the 09G transmission a couple years ago and thought I would share some of my experience. The shifts 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 were a bit rough. Sometimes very concerning. I tried many things short of replacing the valve body - cleaning/replacing the MAP sensor, resetting the transmission, relearning adaptations and following the learning procedure, filter and fluid change, multiple drain and fill. Recently after about 20k miles of owning it, it was showing the early signs of a clogged fuel filter. Most people would probably never notice, but I'm maybe a bit too picky about these things. I replaced the fuel filter, and suddenly the shifts were quick and smooth. Now, I can barely feel the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 shifts. I have done quite a bit of research and I'd never found any recommendations about replacing the fuel filter so I thought it may help others if you are in a similar situation.

Car is at about 124k miles now, and it looked like the original filter, so it makes sense that it was time to replace. I'm still surprised that I am able to see such a noticeable difference in the shifting just from the fuel filter. Now it shifts like I would expect.


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## svo4turbo (18 d ago)

Hello Everyone. Believe it or not, I read all 30 some pages of this thread. Hoping for a bit of a Christmas Miracle with my sons 2006 Jetta 2.5. It has 140k miles on it. He had been having some issues with a flared shift from 3-4 once the trans came up to temp that would sometimes hang out for a while between gears before committing to the shift. Note that once it was IN gear, no slipping to be had even under full throttle. Anyway, since he wanted to keep the car, he decided to service the trans to see if it would improve the symptoms. After a transmission fluid drain / filter / fill, the issue still persisted, so we decided to invest in a rebuilt Valve Body from Street Smart Transmission. They have good reviews and I've seen this fix repair a number of shifting issues for other Jetta owners. 

After installing the Valve Body and performing a reset of the adaptives using VCDS (we think this worked but we don't actually know), the car is almost unusable. SLAMS into Reverse, a little better going into drive. Every shift is an absolute flare / bang experience, and the 3-4 is worse than ever, sometimes never actually completing the shift. Other times it will just get stuck in a gear...3rd...6th...and you actually have to stop the car, put in reverse, or key cycle to get it back into 1st. Needless to say this is a sad experience and we can't even put the old valve body back in as we had to send the core back to SST.

Given that it's significantly worse now than it was before the valve body, I'm inclined to think this is electronic more than it is mechanical. We both double and triple checked all of the solenoid connections against pictures we took before disassembly. We even went bolt for bolt during disassembly and reassembly just to make absolutely sure every bolt that came out went back into the exact same spot. We did the fill procedure to spec as far as we know, pumping in 6 quarts and then letting it come up to temp and letting it drain until it started to sputter a bit of air, at which point we put the plug back in. (I did collect what drained out during this part, so I can probably share how much of the 6 we added came back out if its relevant. Just haven't measured it yet)

Does anyone have any ideas? Could certainly use the assistance!


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## tmurphy105 (Aug 11, 2021)

svo4turbo said:


> Hello Everyone. Believe it or not, I read all 30 some pages of this thread. Hoping for a bit of a Christmas Miracle with my sons 2006 Jetta 2.5. It has 140k miles on it. He had been having some issues with a flared shift from 3-4 once the trans came up to temp that would sometimes hang out for a while between gears before committing to the shift. Note that once it was IN gear, no slipping to be had even under full throttle. Anyway, since he wanted to keep the car, he decided to service the trans to see if it would improve the symptoms. After a transmission fluid drain / filter / fill, the issue still persisted, so we decided to invest in a rebuilt Valve Body from Street Smart Transmission. They have good reviews and I've seen this fix repair a number of shifting issues for other Jetta owners.
> 
> After installing the Valve Body and performing a reset of the adaptives using VCDS (we think this worked but we don't actually know), the car is almost unusable. SLAMS into Reverse, a little better going into drive. Every shift is an absolute flare / bang experience, and the 3-4 is worse than ever, sometimes never actually completing the shift. Other times it will just get stuck in a gear...3rd...6th...and you actually have to stop the car, put in reverse, or key cycle to get it back into 1st. Needless to say this is a sad experience and we can't even put the old valve body back in as we had to send the core back to SST.
> 
> ...


I'm no expert, but just some things that come to mind. I'd try easiest to most difficult of course as you try to narrow things down. I'd also try one at a time so that you will be able to determine if one of these helps at all:

Personally, I've never actually noticed a difference when I've reset adaptations in VCDS. The one where I noticed the most difference is the procedure with the gas pedal. Key in on position, gas pedal to the floor for 20 seconds. Lift foot from gas pedal, and start car. I believe it is best to do this when at operating temperature.
There is also a relearning procedure. It may be worth trying this after another reset.
It is also fairly easy to double check the fluid level if you are inclined to do so. Just remove the plug and see if any excess fluid drains out. It really only tells you if it's overfilled or not though.
What type of fluid did you put in?
In VCDS I would perform a kick down adjustment since this will have an affect on shift points.
Next I would clean the MAP sensor, and throttle body, and perform a throttle body alignment in VCDS.
Reset ECU, and maybe TCM by disconnecting the battery for 5 minutes or so?
Test/inspect vacuum hoses and PCV valve. I believe if your PCV valve has gone it can affect how the transmission shifts.
I've read that the N80 valve can also affect transmission performance. Just throwing it out. I wouldn't just replace parts unless you suspect it's actually bad.
Is it possible that you put in an incorrect valve body? I know that there are multiple varieties and nothing more so just throwing it out as a possibility. Did they do a VIN check before you bought the valve body? And did you carefully compare the new and the old before installing it?
Have you contact the folks at street smart? They may have some knowledge to offer. If nothing else there is a warranty on their parts right?
When is the last time you replaced the fuel filter? I replaced the fuel filter on mine and noticed a considerable improvement in how it shifted.
Hopefully some of this helps. Good luck!


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## svo4turbo (18 d ago)

tmurphy105 said:


> I'm no expert, but just some things that come to mind. I'd try easiest to most difficult of course as you try to narrow things down. I'd also try one at a time so that you will be able to determine if one of these helps at all:
> 
> Personally, I've never actually noticed a difference when I've reset adaptations in VCDS. The one where I noticed the most difference is the procedure with the gas pedal. Key in on position, gas pedal to the floor for 20 seconds. Lift foot from gas pedal, and start car. I believe it is best to do this when at operating temperature.
> There is also a relearning procedure. It may be worth trying this after another reset.
> ...



Very thoughtful response... appreciate it! 

Regarding the gas pedal to floor procedure, I'll look into that. I just assumed that VCDS resets would be more effective, and it seemed there was some skepticism about whether the gas pedal technique actually did anything or was simply an urban legend.

The relearn procedure...we've tried to do this but it's honestly so bad that its difficult to get through all 6 gears at 20% throttle and back down again.

Probably will check the level again after we see what street smart says. I agree, pretty easy to pump another couple quarts in and see what drains out when up to temp. We ordered Aisin ATF...see below.

Part#Line CodeDescriptionQuantityUnit PriceExtended PriceLocationComments
G 055 025 A2AISINATF Cross Ref: ATF-0T46$9.84$59.04German Auto Supply 
Total$59.04
Shipment & Handling Charges$0.00
Grand Total$59.04

Yes, we did kick down adjustment in VCDS. Battery was disconnected for hours while we did the swap.

We did provide VIN to Street Smart at their request, so I assume they verified fitment. We didn't see any obvious differences between the units when we had them side by side on the bench.

Fuel filter done a few months ago.

The things I didn't reply to, I will look into as they're things we didn't consider. Thanks again!


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Adaptation is just fine tuning the shifts. A lot like an O2 sensor. With a properly running engine, the O2 sensor does not do much. It just fine tunes the fuel mixture to make it that much better.

Same way with the adaptation value. If it was cleared, with a new control unit, the transmission should still shift. It might shift slightly harsh/soft, but it will shift pretty darn good. What the adaptation process is, the transmission ECU asks for a shift, it expects the shift to happen in a certain amount of time. If it is too early [harsh shift] then it will 'adjust' the timing of the shift on the next shift. If it is too late, it will adjust the shift for that condition.

If a clutch pack is tight and the hydraulic circuit has no leaks, the shift will be fast. If the clutch pack is worn/loose or if you have a lot of leaks in the hydraulic circuit, the shift will be soft. 

That is all the control unit is doing. The adaptation numbers tell the professional if the circuit is good or not. If you get the right person, they can say which clutch/circuit is the problem. This is why, that data should never be erased. All that data can be used to help diagnose the problem. 

Nothing is exactly the same in every transmission. This is the purpose of the adaptation process. It is not designed to compensate for a clutch that is adjusted too tight or loose. It cannot compensate if there is a large hydraulic leak so the clutch cannot engage either.


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## Balkans (Dec 20, 2021)

tmurphy105 said:


> I bought a 2010 golf with the 09G transmission a couple years ago and thought I would share some of my experience. The shifts 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 were a bit rough. Sometimes very concerning. I tried many things short of replacing the valve body - cleaning/replacing the MAP sensor, resetting the transmission, relearning adaptations and following the learning ...


Hello Friend... Not sure 'How changing the Fuel Filter' is going to affect the Tranny...

What is the logic behind changing a Fuel Filter and Transmission? ----
BTW, where is the Fuel Filter on your motor ?

Thanks


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