# any intrest in a stand alone engine management system?



## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

Well, you guys are going to be my guinea pigs. I've been a member of the rado forum for a while now and am stepping up in the mods, and was looking for intrest in an engine management system called Microtech, there based out of Australia and have a great following over there. there a fully programmable fuel and ignition computer (kinda like in the movie F'n'F) they compare to haltechs E6K without having to buy $400 in aftermarket GM sensors, and are a bit more user friendly i think. plus $750 Microtech vs. 1200+ haltech's, you can get some pretty good power out of this system. heres some more information on them, and i was just posting to see if there was any interest in a group buy of this, i know its a bit out there from what you guys are used to seeing. but hey, i think its worth it. if you would like to see some pictures of the DASH unit, or the HAND controller, or the laptop software. tell me and i can post some pictures, or give you guys some more information
heres a picture of the DASH unit
















"The Microtech LT series of ECU’s offer “Real Time” tuneability combined with the quality and user friendliness that has made it one of the leading aftermarket management systems in Australia for many years.
Microtech LT ECUs can be seen on some of the fastest vehicles in their class on earth, like Jose “Siguel” Torres RX7 Pro Import car which runs sub 7 second 1/4 miles, championship-winning circuit racing vehicles, off-road buggies, motorbikes, 4-wheel drives, speedway cars, boats and many other applications.
The main difference between Microtech and other ECUs is its pre-configured setup. That means there is no modifying of sensors, no user setup, no guesswork and no mistakes. Each ECU is programmed with the ignition configuration and base map for the vehicle's standard sensors upon ordering.
A wiring diagram for the specific engine type and sensors, labelled wiring loom, pinout diagram and color coded wires mean that installation is almost step-by-step instructed all the way. It's hard to make a mistake!
Though the unit is simple in its installation and setup, it is by no means lacking in performance. Microtech LT-series ECUs have comprehensive datalogging with text and graphical displays, auxilliary input and output features and 16 bit interpolation between the 256 load sites on the main fuel map. Additional fuel corrections through air, water, cranking, throttle position, manifold pressure and auxilliary input functions give the LT the scope to acheive outstanding driveability and economy whilst perfecting mixtures required for optimum power output.
Perfect for applications where the stock management system is inadequate or non existant such as engine conversions, modified vehicles and race cars, the Microtech LT series gives you complete control over your engine. "
any comments or questions are appreciated...
thanks
Daniel
[email protected]
AIM: Bejbis


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## garyw (Oct 17, 1999)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (Bejbis)*

more pics please. I might be interested in one.
Any website for it?
Gary


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (garyw)*

I just got done searching around on google and all I could find was http://www.br7racing.com and http://www.microtechefi.com. there pretty usefull for information, and pictures. also http://www.autospeed.com has a few good articles about them, but you have to search for them. but basically what im looking for is intrest, so i can persuade them to get some basemaps and hookups for VW's and looks like i got a good start.




































_Modified by Bejbis at 10:06 PM 6-25-2003_


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (Bejbis)*

Are injectors batch-fired with this system?


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (Agtronic)*

I would like to hear some feed back from someone that actually has the unit. It sounds like it would be like SDS (user friendly) but has more tunability and has more than one MAP, sounds like a good buy to me







would definately be interested


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

well, all things considered, finding someone in the USA with one of these on their car is ganna be hard, theve only sold 60 in the USA as of current. all of them have been for rx7's, eclipses, and 240sx's. they have a larger following in austraulia seeing as how thats where there made. 
yea, you can have more than one map, ill be able to give you guys some first hand information soon as i get mine in, in early july. but they are a good buy, thats why i got mine







from what ive heard from the rx7 guys their cars run like they never have on the stock ECU, espically the boosted cars. but you will not find someone in the USA with one of these on thier VW. as they arent avaible for VW's YET!







we can change that though.
Agtronic: as for your question, ill have to call and ask tommrow. as im not sure.

but looks as if people are getting intrested about this dare i say "budget" stand alone. im recieveing a few emails so far and things are looking up









thanks guys,
Daniel


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## draculia (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

yup, this is one of the systems i've been looking at for my gsx. i have to decide on fuel management within the next month so i can get the car back on the road.


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## draculia (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: (draculia)*

link to some more info http://www.dsmtalk.com/forums/...94735


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (draculia)*

i personally am considering SDS more than ahything, for tha fact that mad dub heads use it, tech supprot can be had from many on here too. i dont care about a difft maps, id rather write it down, and when i get to the track, plug em in. its no biggie to me


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

i dunno about you D wiz, but for the 1200$ that i save over the SDS, you can get someone to dyno tune your car with a wideband for 200$ but i was considering an SDS at one time too....
Daniel


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (Bejbis)*

Fully seqential fuel or batch fire?
Closed loop part throttle fuel correction? (with narrow band or wideband input)
Closed loop WOT fuel correction with wideband?
Jeffrey Atwood


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 11:40 AM 6-26-2003_


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bejbis* »_i dunno about you D wiz, but for the 1200$ that i save over the SDS, you can get someone to dyno tune your car with a wideband for 200$ but i was considering an SDS at one time too....

Don't forget that the SDS comes as a complete kit, and you don't need ANYTHING. The display and the controller you posted have to be purchased seperately, and they're quite pricey aswell.
Still, the Microtech is an attractive system. Lost of little features I only wished SDS would have. But again, SDS has a strong point, it's simple. Just program it and go. I just wish it wasn't batch and that it was available with low-impedence injector drivers.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_i personally am considering SDS more than ahything, for tha fact that mad dub heads use it, tech supprot can be had from many on here too. i dont care about a difft maps, id rather write it down, and when i get to the track, plug em in. its no biggie to me

Funny how Paul Wolf chose to use SDS in his vw and all the sudden it just spread. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he had chosen Haltech like he told me this monday, everyone would prolly swear by Haltech and say that SDS is garbage, funny how this world turns huh?


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## corradokyd (Jun 4, 1999)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Fully seqential fuel or batch fire?

thats what im wondering...


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

Agtronic:
Jefnes: O2 sensor is only used for datalogging, the load on engine is determined by the MAP







but there are different maps for cruise and WOT and such...
i found out, injectors are seqential fire injection. also, the price for both the hand controller, and the dash unit are around 425 for both of them if i recall correctley. so there not too bad. and you honstley dont need them, all you need is a laptop and everything is easier and better with it.
also the Microtech comes with 4 injector drivers for low impedence.








and for the most pard the MT is program and go, like i said you have a flying lead harness, and all you have to do is connect/splice in like 20 wires, and your off. will come with a base map to get you driveing pretty good. and you either butt tune it, or dyno tune it







up to you.


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_
Funny how Paul Wolf chose to use SDS in his vw and all the sudden it just spread. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if he had chosen Haltech like he told me this monday, everyone would prolly swear by Haltech and say that SDS is garbage, funny how this world turns huh?








so what are you sayin killa? SDS is a joke or is it good? just curois of opinions, personally i think most systems are the same, is the tuner that makes the difference

agtronic, SDS can drive low impedance injectors


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_so what are you sayin killa? SDS is a joke or is it good? just curois of opinions, personally i think most systems are the same, is the tuner that makes the difference

Yeah, for our applications, most will probably be about the same. It's when you get into the really large injectors and high HP cars that these details start to come into play. However, I just like that the microtec has a much more professional look to it, with the warning lights and everything, plus it's laptop compatible. These reasons alone don't justify switching over, but the senquential injection and peak/hold drivers are a pretty big deal, especially considering the price of the system.

_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_agtronic, SDS can drive low impedance injectors

Yeah it can, but not the way they were designed to be fired. Basically, you get none of the advantages associated with peak/hold injectors when using SDS to drive them. They use a resistor pack so that the injectors don't burn out. When I called them, I found it strange that they didn't seem to even know what a peak/hold driver was.








Who wants an EM4-4F?


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## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (killa)*

Paul who?


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

i agree totally, but who runs it? not syaing tahts bad, but if you have trouble, its gonna be harder to have support... i mena i wouldnt wanna be a guinea pig, nah mean?


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

D wiz... IMHO yes, SDS is a joke.I'm not intimately familiar with it, but I've never been impressed by it







thats just my opinion. haltech is a great system though. if it wasnt so much i would get it. but like i said. the microtech is really compared to the haltech e6k. and yes, the e6k is a Great system. it can do lots of things that the SDS just plain cant, and a few things that the microtech cant. im not going to say that the MT is as good as the e6k, but its pretty damn close. as far as i see it though, the e6k is made for a guy to go to dyno and get someone else to tune his car. and the MT is used more for the daily driver/strip/autox guy to fool around with while hes driveing around tuning his own car.
Daniel


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

in no way am i trying to start an arguement, more of a debate...... but how can you say its "good" if it hasnt been proven on dubs? not syaing it matters.... just curoius... 
and why have someone tune it for you? tune it yourself with a wideband or rent a dyno for an hour. and what hasnt impressed you about SDS? im not an SDS cheerleader, just wanna see all the opinions of all systems before i committo anything, 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (Bejbis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bejbis* »_ IMHO yes, SDS is a joke.


you say you have never been impressed with the sds why is that? what exactly are you basing this. just like WIZ im not trying to start a fire. im just trying to get all your facts. and if i get then right i have only one major needed FACT of the matter.
1) no vw's have used them in the us!!! what you have gopt to be kidding me.
personally i wouldnt buy crap if i was someone out there wanting engine management and wanted something simple and basic. know from my understanding that means one thing. you buy the system and someone tunes it for you because either a you unnderstand the actual system two you dont know computers. 
for me i wanted something basic. and how basic is put injectors in. install map sensor, install water temp and air temp. ground it. hook it to a 12v. not that bad.
opps car wont start, or im having troubles can somone help......speed, turbo8v, silverado etc,etc,etc.
before you start to day something is a joke or something doesnt impress you check up on it see what it can really do for you. read up on it. actually read some of these guys running it.
but hey its a free country everyone has there own right.


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

D wiz, trust me i understand. i wouldnt of gotten into this myself if i didnt think this was a good system. im trying to give you an unbiased opinion, so you can choose for yourself








but the reason for this is im trying to get this into so vdubs so that we can advance to the ranks of the other guys. this system has been proven time and time again on rx7's, supras, DSM, wrx's and the list goes on. 
tune it yourself. thats what this this is made for. look at the the other systems out there, most are based in DOS, or just have a hand controller and are honstley a PAIN to tune. weve had one installed in a rx7 in around 4 hours, and had it street tuned in less than 2.5 hours.
heres a copy of the spec list for you guys to look over. enjoy, and think about all the nice options








http://www.br7racing.com/downl...t.pdf
and i just found out that theve already got a few basemaps and applications for the 8v's and vr6's







heres the applications as of now, and im trying to get more.
4cyl hall dist. pickup LT8
4cyl 60-2 crank pickup and dist type LT8
v6 60-2 coilpack type lt12
keep this thread moving, its goin great








Daniel

Turbojeta3
1. yep, theres currentley no VW's in the USA that have this system







theres ganna be though, i can feel it.
2. the support base for this thing is growing everyday. and so far right now its spread like wildfire. 
3. as with the MT those are the only sensors you have to wire up on the MT also. so its a REALLY basic install. but you dont have to install a MAP sensor. its inside the ECU. all you have to do is run a vac line to it








4. weve already discussed in this thread some of the disadvantages with the SDS's workings. some of witch include the batch feed injection, and high impedence injectors. all of witch are going to hold you back when you want to make any real power










_Modified by Bejbis at 12:31 PM 6-26-2003_


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

well i agree, good to hear other opinions, i mean as far as stand alone goes i am more convinced to SDS, but open to others http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







, but to consider this, id wanna see it on a dub first, so lets hoep your goes good. most stand alone are fine to put in, its the tuning that makes a diff, or better yet tuner

edit: one thing that really really bugs me about microtech is tat they dont even have a web site? i treid searching and nothing, i even spoke to steve nichols at aussie imports llc, and he even admitted they dont got a web site? what the hell is up with taht? you cant even call em up and ask about their system, thats kinda wack










_Modified by D Wiz at 3:36 PM 6-26-2003_


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## Boomdaddymack (Jun 19, 2002)

*ME ME ME!!!*

Hell ya. I've been a guinea pig for the last year, with this stupid 16V G60 and I might as well stay that way! I'll talk with ya soon! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: ME ME ME!!! (Boomdaddymack)*

Well,if SDS is a joke,then look on their website,they have 8 sec. cars on there.







There are so many stand alones out there,so it really is PERSONAL CHOICE.I am sure your Microtech works well,etc.,but so do ALL of the stand alones if you TUNE IT RIGHT.And SDS costs only $1300.00 on average,so,Microtech must cost a $100.00?How are you saving $1200.00For guys that don't want to F#*k around with programming laptops,etc. and want to CONCENTRATE ON TUNING A/F and TIMING.SDS is great,it is SIMPLE,(like me I guess







)and can make great power.I fried my ECU by accident installing it,and they had it back to me in 5 days and it cost $15.00 to fix,now THAT is SERVICE!!I also have 12,000 street/strip miles on my car and not ONE THING has gone wrong.No 3d maps,no datalogging,just push -&+ buttons,which is wonderful for idiot greasemonkeys like myself.














Did I mention they are an established company that does NO advertising,aALL word of mouth and they have sold THOUSANDS of sytems,yep,what a joke,I guess I am a fool.Sorry










_Modified by SILVERADO at 10:02 PM 6-26-2003_


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## PARTY_BOY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: ME ME ME!!! (SILVERADO)*

SDS works,but it does lack the tooth wheel trigger system.I think if the MT system is able to use the stock crank trigger from the VW,then it would get my money(and after I exhaust the SS units capability it probably will).


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_so what are you sayin killa? SDS is a joke or is it good? just curois of opinions, personally i think most systems are the same, is the tuner that makes the difference


Yeah, that's what im saying too, then again, that's been said tons of times before.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_Paul who? 

Wolf.








first guy to use SDS, first guy to crack 10's on a fwd vw, first vw to grace the pages of turbo magazine.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (killa)*

sorry, forgot to add that this was done with a stock 1.8 16v motor and an off the shelf T3/T4. This was also done about *4 years ago*, i know there's a couple of Vr's running 10's but this was done 4-5 years ago, STOCK BLOCK of all things.


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (killa)*

Bejbis:
Microtech has been used here in PR for quite a while and specially for VW and VR6 turbos, I have a friend that using Microtech MX-8 Dyno ona a VR6 Turbo @ 25 psi around 750 whpbefore the Laptop version came along the LX-8 on the VR6 and the thing is that it is more versatile to work with than Halteck and other Stand alone, and most of it can be plug and play... This is the stand alone that I'm getting for my VR6








Good Luck


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

Hey Bejbis:
How much you say the Microtech LX-8 goes around $$$$ and what does it includes with it?
Thanks
Vento FI


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

The Microtech for a 6 cylinder has been available through Aussie Imports for months now, there are 5 or 6 VR6's running it already. There is a sequential fire unit out now that is in testing.


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## 10secRabbit (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: (lugnuts)*

hey i remember that day at the grove.thanks killa.in my opinion. sds is a good system and very easy to tune IF you know HOW TO TUNE..but if your looking for bells and whistle you need to go somewhere else..Ive seen cars in PR run 7.60`s with blow thru carbs.so even the simplest fuel system can accomodate most race cars. and hot street cars.i drove sds on the street with good mileage and clean emmsions..wich can be done easily if you know how to tune.and i think this can be accomplished with any standalone if you want to put in the time and money to tune it properly.its just a matter of prefrence, choose wisely.good luck with the g/p kevin
hope to see you sunday.
later 
paul


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## draculia (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: (lugnuts)*

why is everyone so afraid of change? everyone gets used to one thing that works and is petrified of everything else. all you dubbers go and check out other boards for cars that are more popular, and lay down faster times. you'll open yourself up to tons of new products.
the way the tuning of the microtech has been described by people that install and tune it seems almost idiot proof, yet very precise. i'm definately looking into it for my dsm, still not sure what the jetta will recieve, i'm cheap with it.


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## PARTY_BOY (Nov 10, 2002)

*Re: (draculia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *draculia* »_why is everyone so afraid of change? everyone gets used to one thing that works and is petrified of everything else. all you dubbers go and check out other boards for cars that are more popular, and lay down faster times. you'll open yourself up to tons of new products.
the way the tuning of the microtech has been described by people that install and tune it seems almost idiot proof, yet very precise. i'm definately looking into it for my dsm, still not sure what the jetta will recieve, i'm cheap with it.

Its partially because of the self proclaimed know it alls that come here and spread BS all over the place.6mo ago I learned(no not really







)you could'nt run a 5v signal modifier on a VW(its a piggyback).6mo ago because the experts on vortex said it was'nt possible,now everyone wants one







.
For you people to really see the results that other imports have is to learn what they did(especially mitsubishi)to solve some of the problems.


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

Lugnuts: the sequential fire LT8/12 are already out. theve been out for a while now.








Vento: thanks for coming out and saying that it is good over there where you live, i didnt say they dont have it on vw's in the world, juts not in the US. i cant give out exact prices, but i will say around 800$ for the ECU, 300$ish for the DASH unit,, and 150ish for the hand controller. prices vary greatley depending on how many people want it. and current exchange rates, they suck right now.
10sec: thanks for that imput, like ive tried to say, most standalones are basically the same, some use older technology, and some use newer technology. pretty much anything can be accomplished with a good stand alone if the tune is good. and with the MT its pretty much idiot proof







its really simple, much like the SDS. just a little cheaper, and a lot more up to date.
dracula: thank you for speaking up. change is the best thing that can happen to the automotive community. espically when it comes to aftermarket stuff, if MT steps into the veedub scene, it will make other competotors step up because they have competition, i mean think about it. how many different engine management systems are there? and how many have you heard vw's talk about useing? one...two maybe? theres no competition, thats why we have a very limited supply of aftermarket goodies. look at it, like 3 places rule the vw aftermarket, BBM, autotech, and neuspeed. compare that product spread to honda







i could name 1000 honda tuners







all because we dont beg for something more. i LOVE what joezx6, with his eaton charger kit and SNS have done with their chips for the corrado alone, and thats what im striving for. not for me but for you guys to make the other guys work for what they have, without breaking our wallets for it.
Daniel


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## ALpHaMoNk_VW (Mar 26, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

This is sounding good, and if the price is right i think i might be on that list as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (ALpHaMoNk_VW)*

does it come with coil packs like the SDS?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

SDS dont come with coilpacks i think, you have to have another ignition system like a MDS to run an SDS from what their website says.
the microtech uses your stock coils if you want, or you can get bosch ones for ~40$ea, youll need 4 for a 4banger i think.








Bosch coils - For use with the LTX ECUs, the Bosch HEC715 is a solid-state transformer-type ignition coil suitable for high-HP applications. LTX8 requires at least four, while the LTX12 requires at least six except in two-rotor applications.
Daniel


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

SDS does come with coils, the f does, the e doesnt, keep the info coming... nice to see other options


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (D Wiz)*

Bejbis:
Count me in for the group buy and when the time is right let us know the price on the ECU and accesories
Thanks
Vento


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## RAZZOR (May 4, 2002)

My 2 cents!
Have to say that the Microtech is the best value for money period!!!!!
Have used it on distributor type VR6 and coil pack type.Approx 2 hrs to wire up and ready to go for a drive .Base maps supplied are a touch rich.Trim back the fuel and you could drive the car to the dyno for a fine tune.Save you some $$$ with the set up on the dyno.System available with built in igniter(ltx8) or with out (lt8),to use with oe igniter.
Only down side is it batch fires the injectors in pairs(not sequential).


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

razzzor, thanks for your imput man....but the both the lt8 and lt12 use sequential injection. unless you use like a lt8 for a v8, then it does batch fire, but for the 4cyl, and 6cyl applications. it uses sequential injection. yes, the maps come to you really rich, so you dont install it and blow up you car.








Daniel


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

Keep it up guys, this post is going very good, looks like Microtech is way better than we thought


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

Here is my 2 cents,this whole stand alone debate stuff is so lame.Every other day one person is saying one thing is crap then the next it is not.You guys get paid to run your cars?Who cares,it is all for fun







Who ever says SDS is a joke is the dumbass that spent twice as much on his Tec-III or Haltech.Unless you have a full on race car,SDS or Holley commander is all you will need.So tell your parents to put their cheque books away.


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## nuugen (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_i agree totally, but who runs it? not syaing tahts bad, but if you have trouble, its gonna be harder to have support... i mena i wouldnt wanna be a guinea pig, nah mean?

I will be a guinea rat...send me one n/c







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (nuugen)*

is it in 250 rpms incrememts or 500??
haltech is cool , but why in only 500 increments, i know the thread isnt about haltech, i know sds is every 250, 
i wonder what microtech is? i mean a 250 to 500 is a bug jump, thats half the amount of places you can adjust crap


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

Dwiz: 500 rpm increments in matrix mode(3d fuel and ignition maps) with 16 load points from -30hg to 20 or 30psig depending on what map sensor you go for, the 2 or 3 bar sensor. with adjustable map points for every 16 load points per 500rpm in fuel an timing, meaning, yes, its every 500rpm you can adjust, but you have 16 different load points for every 500 rpm you can adjust for. thats why they have 250 and we have 500. so its really not the MT and such haveing half the places to adjust things







understand?

Bad Habbit: i cant even begin to respond to your post. not only because it gave us no useable information to this post but also because you are one of the people who sicken me who makes this and other threads lame, this is a great thread, and youve come in and dumbed it down a bit. thanks.


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## surefooted (May 21, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

So what about the crank sensor thing? Did we ever get an answer on that? What is the ETA for this to be ready?


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## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

So you are saying that the Microtech uses factory rpm, temp,and knock sensors?And it keeps the Maf and simply adds a Map sensor?Is this a speed density system or MAF system? If this thing really "plugs in" that easily then you may have something here,but why do you need "guinea pigs"if YOU are so convinced it is so much better than everything else, let's see how well YOU have it working in YOUR car and see what power/times YOU are doing FIRST before we can make any judgements on how "perfect" this system is.Put it in YOUR car FIRST and get it working THEN tell us how great it is,that is only fair yeah?So many things I read on here are "too good to be true",and oftentimes end up that way.You don't need our approval,TRY IT YOURSELF FIRST,anybody can "talk about it",install and tune it YOURSELFand then it is easier to judge.







Have you ever installed/tuned a standalone system?How can you caompare when you have no experience with any other?










_Modified by SILVERADO at 8:26 PM 6-28-2003_


----------



## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: (SILVERADO)*

Not until I had ALREADY INSTALLED and DROVE it,did I start "cheerleading" for SDS,I did'nt read about it and start saying"this is the best system ever".







I had ALREADY installed and tuned it MYSELF,then once I had ACTUAL EXPERIENCE WITH THE SYSTEM,did I start praising it.Most of the guys on here are DIY,and if you are sure this is great (it would be cool







if it was)YOU try it first bro.


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (SILVERADO)*

Silverado:
First: This is a map system only; the MAF is out of the picture therefore, having more space for other things like BOV, WI or A/W coolers








Second: This system have been proven more than you think in VW specially in VR6 and doesn’t mean that because you have not hear from it before doesn’t that it don't work... I know at least 10 or more cars (VR6) that run with Microtech, with either Turbo or Supercharged with Nos or with out Nos, and the performance is Flawless...


----------



## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

Like I said,I'M sure it works great when tuned properly(they all do)but what is the point of talking about it and saying it is way better than SDS ,etc. and not even having installed it,etc.The engine coding and ECU are different on North America models,so we would still have to see if it is as "plug and play"







as he says it is.You can make anything work with enough effort,but if y9u have'nt even tried th e sytem out,how can you praise it's merits?







(not you) the original poster.If you have it and it works great,that's cool so does my SDS.







I never said it did'nt work well,I am just responding to his saying SDS is a joke and not knowing what he is talking about.







My system took me about 2hours total to install (but I am a full time mechanic)and the "trickiest part is the magnets and setting base timing and then ofcourse the tuning.And if you add it up,the 2 are about the same in price,but I don't have carbon fibre







you said they were both batch fire right?










_Modified by SILVERADO at 3:24 AM 6-29-2003_


----------



## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

Silver: i never said it was way better than SDS, i never said you should throw away your SDS and get one of these. i also never said i needed guinei pigs for the system to run on, i was wondering if i could get any intrest for this system, and i was useing this forum as guinea pigs for your input







but ive had a few people offer there cars for testing







whoohoo! im going to be doing the "testing" on my own cars, 93 SLC, and 90 g60. im really not trying to cause an argument over witch one is better. it really dosnt bother me what you guys get for your own cars. im just trying to introduce something new into the market so you guys will have more options. i know what im getting, and you getting the something different dosnt bother me, but for the other guys to have competition, only makes them work harder and produce bettr quality products for us, the consumers.
Vento, thanks a TON for your imput, please keep it coming.
Daniel


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

Silverado:
The cars here in Puerto Rico are North American version since Puerto Rico is a comonwealth and therefore we are rulled buy the same law as you guys.....
The good thing about Microtech is that you use the same camtriger, coilpacks, coolant sensor, knock sensors, throtlle ect. I believe that the only thing is the MAP sensor and the air temp sensor that goes to atm... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif There is even setups that you can leave the Factory ECU for people that wants to know the oil temp and so the trip computer will still in use...


----------



## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

this definetly interesting. i would like to see how it peforms when compare to others system.
but it's worth to try it. after reading their home page it looks like it's simple enough for anyone with some common sense to install it and tune it properly. also it says that you don't have to custom mount any other sensor and that it uses factory sensors








you could sign me up for one.


----------



## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*

Sorry,I did'nt know you were talking about cars in PR(it's not on your sig. or anything).I can see it working well in the Motronic VR6,but I don't know about the Digifant G60.I'm always open to new things,but I could sworn somebody said "SDS was a joke".I just wanted to stand up and say it works,and works well.I think that is bitchin'that you can plug it in,and I am assuming it is a speed density system so no restrictive MAF,etc.,so that would be a plus if you want to keep those,but you know what?My SDS uses my SAME coolant temp and air temp sensors,and only other thing is the hall magnets.But it is totally senseless to argue "which one is better",I say go SDS it is EASY and works excellent,you say Microtech,it's all good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Xeve (May 22, 2003)

So where can one be purchased. Or is it jst a product for long ping pong discussions?!


----------



## Metallitubby (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (Xeve)*

I contacted Sam and Tony Rigioli in Australia months ago about this system, and in NO WAY is Microtech new, nor is it groundbreaking. I ordered my LT8 many moons ago and am still waiting ( CC security features ). All S/A systems are better than OE in the aspect of flexibility and add-ons, and even SDS ( for the money and ease ) is a great system. One day, we will have it as good as the Honda guys and have a whole industry scattering to throw a PnP together for us. Until then, I am going to run the system that I ordered, and then post up my findings. Good luck gathering a group buy on these systems as well, as they are kind of hard to get in the US as lets say..... Haltech or Electromotive.


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Metallitubby)*

Hey Bejbis:
Any news regarding the g/b on the Microtech










_Modified by Vento FI at 11:37 PM 7-1-2003_


----------



## PAGTI91 (Jul 3, 2001)

*Re: (Agtronic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Agtronic* »_Paul who? 

werd, I was thinking about SDS for my rado and I could care less who uses it, Rick, Jim, Dave, Paul, Bob, Dan, Robby, John. Cost is the main reason...and I know some local heads who have tuned/used it. I would go TEC-3 but its more $$, and haltech is more $$ too, SDS will suit my needs...for the summer street sled.


----------



## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

vento: sorry were in the process of negoiating, im trying to get some firm prices, and were also trying to find a way to put a TDC sensor in the stock dizzy for the ignition, so you wouldnt have to put something on the crank..... im tryin hard to get info by the beginning of next week..stick with me guys









Daniel


----------



## draculia (Feb 27, 2002)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

ok, i did a little more digging with this system because i really think i'm picking it up for the gsx. if you want info on it go to http://www.microtechefi.com or http://www.br7racing.com <---that's where i'm getting mine from. they have 2 4 cylinder vw applications, and the vr6. they have a plug and play harness, but its only for some cars, not sure which ones. as for people that are too lazy to click the link, prices are under 700, under 150 for the hand controller, and so on and so forth. i'm gonna pick up the ltx8, the coils are about 40 each and that's all thats needed extra. well that's my take on it.


----------



## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

good digging dracula, i gave that link earlier on in the posts. yes, they have 4 and 6 cyl vw applications, but MT is trying to make them more pnp, only realy pnp harness they have is for the 3rd generation rx7. 
Daniel



_Modified by Bejbis at 3:06 PM 7-3-2003_


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

Any news regarding the gb


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Vento FI)*


----------



## jerk (Aug 28, 2000)

*Re: (Vento FI)*


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_Here is my 2 cents,this whole stand alone debate stuff is so lame.Every other day one person is saying one thing is crap then the next it is not.You guys get paid to run your cars?Who cares,it is all for fun







Who ever says SDS is a joke is the dumbass that spent twice as much on his Tec-III or Haltech.Unless you have a full on race car,SDS or Holley commander is all you will need.So tell your parents to put their cheque books away.









i hate to say it, but i agree.


----------



## Vento PSI (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: (speed51133!)*

Hey guys. I'm Vento FI but my password got erased








Anyways I found a place that the LT-12 for less than $900 and with everything plug and play, the only thing I need is a manifold temp sensor in wich is about $5 from any GM auto part
Thanks Vento


----------



## Agtronic (May 14, 2001)

*Re: (Vento PSI)*

Sounds good! You have a link?
Btw, you can find your password with the "forgot password" link ...


----------



## Vento PSI (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: (Agtronic)*

Agtronic:
I have tried so many times, that for some reason it does not work, and I have send about 3 e-mails to the [email protected] and still no answer, What should I do?






















Vento FI


----------



## Vento PSI (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: (Vento PSI)*

Here you go Agtronic:
http://www.br7racing.com/mtprodecu.html 
Talk to Brandon 850-321-2280


----------



## turbogti20 (Jan 29, 2002)

*Re: (Vento PSI)*

I just bought a new system to the area (EMS) check out the info, I havent finished the project but I will let you know how it goes. http://www.ptrsds.com


----------



## jerk (Aug 28, 2000)

*Re: (turbogti20)*

How much for the EMS system? Is there a dealer here in ID? IM me.


----------



## stevenichols (Oct 9, 2002)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

The microtech has been used on MANY Vr6's in the states.


----------



## fire337 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: (stevenichols)*

Do they have any base maps for 1.8T's? I am looking to do a stand alone with my new turbo set up.


----------



## Vento PSI (Jul 22, 2003)

*Re: (fire337)*

Fire337:
Yes, I believe they do have a base maps for the 1.8T


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Vento PSI)*

Ok People, It's me again.....
I just ordered the LT12 from Microtech and I will let you know how does it work during the next few weeks
























_Modified by Vento FI at 5:15 AM 7-26-2003_


_Modified by Vento FI at 5:17 AM 7-26-2003_


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

TT


----------



## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

Anybody here have it on a vr6 turbo that can give final cost, advantages, disadvantages, difficulties, customer support, etc? Distributor in USA?


----------



## jsnVR6 (Feb 5, 2001)

*Re: (DieGTi)*

So when is this GB?


----------



## Dubweiser 2.0 (Sep 27, 2002)

*Re: (JsnVR6Corrado)*

I would just like to add Im intrigued with this system and may try it in the future. Im noit FI kit but I can always use it to tune na to the max then just remap it when fi is in play.


----------



## ALpHaMoNk_VW (Mar 26, 2001)

*Re: (Vento FI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vento FI* »_Ok People, It's me again.....
I just ordered the LT12 from Microtech and I will let you know how does it work during the next few weeks










any updates? install notes?







Like any other stand-alone this could be really good specailly for the price http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (ALpHaMoNk_VW)*

Well the thing is that when you order your MicroTech LT-8 or LT-12 you tell MicroTech the year and model of you car with all the thing that you have and it come with a full diagram for your car to install, like I said before is plug and play...it uses all of your sensors and that's it... Inclusive you can even leave your stock ECU for the extra stuff that the car has...







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Vento FI)*








TT


----------



## WannaGTIiDO (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (Bejbis)*

im still reading up on this system but i may be interested http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WannaGTIiDO (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

O.K. i just finished reading the post and i am now very interested. Vento FI definitly hit up this post when you get it installed. I would really like to hear at least 1 testimonial. One thing i dont think i heard was how the multiple maps work. If you can program say a 10 psi map and a 20 psi map what does it take to switch them...would i need my laptop in the car or would i be able to do it with a push of a button on the hand controller?
Also was wondering if they have audi maps as i plan on using an AMU engine or othewise known as the 225hp TT engine because of the greater internal strength in stock form. Also i am doing this to a G60 Corrado so i would really like to know if anyone is using this with digifant or if they have a kit that will completly replace the stock ecu.


----------



## golfvrsc (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: (WannaGTIiDO)*

I am very interested in more info- is there going to be a group buy available? is it going to be "more tailored" to our cars?


----------



## jwspin (Oct 17, 2002)

*Re: (10secRabbit)*

when you guys are talkin about "PR" are you talkin about puerto rico?
im goin down there this winter for work and was curious what the car scene was like.


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (WannaGTIiDO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WannaGTIiDO* »_O.K. i just finished reading the post and i am now very interested. Vento FI definitly hit up this post when you get it installed. I would really like to hear at least 1 testimonial. One thing i dont think i heard was how the multiple maps work. If you can program say a 10 psi map and a 20 psi map what does it take to switch them...would i need my laptop in the car or would i be able to do it with a push of a button on the hand controller?
Also was wondering if they have audi maps as i plan on using an AMU engine or othewise known as the 225hp TT engine because of the greater internal strength in stock form. Also i am doing this to a G60 Corrado so i would really like to know if anyone is using this with digifant or if they have a kit that will completly replace the stock ecu.


Yes, you can have multiple maps if this is what you want, for instance, if you have NOS or more boost, just make the change in the laptop or in the dash unit and "Viola" there you have it....
Regarding the 1.8T Audi 225 hp yes, you have the set up to for that engine, just make sure that you have all the factory sensors, or you can use generic ones GM and they are very cheap...
I have been talking with http://www.br7racing.com Ray or Brandon, and I'm waiting as we speak for my LT-12 and should be here by next weak or so. I believe that Brandon and Ray are in Australia at the moment doing some business with MicroTech on the new upcoming Standalone.
I definitely will post and let you guys know what is coming with my set up. As for now the standalone, 72 lbs low impendace injectors, water/air cooler, running at 15 psi, stock pistons, ARP Head bolts, ARP rod bolts, in-line fuel pump, etc.








BTW, I'm going to use three different maps that I can choose from depending on the application that I want to use the car for...one is for Autocross with a cooler with ICE and Water for the W/A cooler and VP C-16 118 octane, the second for regular 93 octane with the ICE and Water and the third for normalm93 octane, the only thing you have to do is click and change the map for your application



_Modified by Vento FI at 11:17 PM 9-12-2003_


----------



## WannaGTIiDO (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

ok this is cool but what if you want to change a map...like say you up size your injectors...can you then change the programming yourself? What im saying is if i upgrade how easily will i be able to tailor it. 
Pretty much what im asking is...are these maps you get from micro tech just a starting platform so you dont jack up your engine or are they more ridgid than i think








*edit~* i just thought of something else...will i be able to override throttle by wire (is that something i have to mention to them when i puchase?)


_Modified by WannaGTIiDO at 11:01 PM 9-12-2003_


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (WannaGTIiDO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WannaGTIiDO* »_ok this is cool but what if you want to change a map...like say you up size your injectors...can you then change the programming yourself? What im saying is if i upgrade how easily will i be able to tailor it. 
Pretty much what im asking is...are these maps you get from micro tech just a starting platform so you dont jack up your engine or are they more ridgid than i think








*edit~* i just thought of something else...will i be able to override throttle by wire (is that something i have to mention to them when i puchase?)

_Modified by WannaGTIiDO at 11:01 PM 9-12-2003_

WannaGTIiDo;
The first thing is that Yes the MicroTech that you order will come with a base MAP for you to start your engine and tune it. After you do this, then you can save like 4 or 5 different setups in the ECU and then change it upon request, or if you got new or bigger injectors just make the adjustment and save it, this is the benefits of the Standalone. For example; If you have a car that is FI(Turbo or Supercharged) for the 1/4 mile, You can advance the timing like 23-25 deg. until it reads boost and the ECU will start to retard the timing like 2 deg. per psi and all depending on the values that you input in the ECU.
Regarding the throttles by wire, one of the things that we are doing is to leave the stock ECU to work with all the other stuff the car and the MicroTech for the engine (Like timing and Fuel) and what we do is to tap the signal wire in the TPS and so far it works like a charmed


----------



## WannaGTIiDO (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

well the thing is that im going to be putting a throttle by wire engine in a non throttle by wire car so the stock ecu will not support this. So if i had a different throttle body on the car if i told them what kind of sensor it was using would they still be able to configure for my setup?


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (WannaGTIiDO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WannaGTIiDO* »_ So if i had a different throttle body on the car if i told them what kind of sensor it was using would they still be able to configure for my setup?

Oh, Yeah, with no problems, and if you don't have the info of the throttle, then you can use a GM type sensor for the throttle, any configuration, just let us know and will configure for you, no biggie.....














The Sky is the Limit


----------



## WannaGTIiDO (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

OK im in when is the group buy







...now all i need to do is see what model MicroTech i need
*edit~* What is the advantage to using the bosch coils?


_Modified by WannaGTIiDO at 4:21 PM 9-13-2003_


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (WannaGTIiDO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WannaGTIiDO* »_OK im in when is the group buy







...now all i need to do is see what model MicroTech i need
*edit~* What is the advantage to using the bosch coils?

_Modified by WannaGTIiDO at 4:21 PM 9-13-2003_

About the GB we are gonna have to talk to Bejbis or maybe we can talk with the guy that I know to see if he can make it happened and to see how much $$$ will each unit cost.
The model that you should use is the LT-8 or LTX-8, the only difference is that the X stand for Boch Coils, and the one with no X is for factory coils...


----------



## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

This is all pretty informative. It shows another option for stand alone. The one thing I am not seeing is the cost advantage the MT has over SDS.







By the time you figure in all the accesories it is all about the same.


----------



## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (draculia)*

I am way to lazy to read all this. But considering the 1lap engine (409 whp) is going to be gutted and sold soon(in lew of WC Touring class car). I am willing to help with whatever I can. I will be a test dummy too, if need be.
I am not going to check this post that often because when there are 4 pages of stuff to read I dont even bother, so your best bet is to IM me.


----------



## WannaGTIiDO (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

cool..hope you can get a deal for us.....
im still confused though...what is the advantage to running bosch coils?


----------



## WannaGTIiDO (Jul 20, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

cool..hope you can get a deal for us.....
i understand the packages but i am still confused as to what the advantage of running bosch coils is?


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (WannaGTIiDO)*

The Boch coils is for those application where the engine does not have the coil pack (Factory or aftermarke) and for those people who would like to change from dist. to electronic ignition and the LTX series comes formate already for Boch coils wich is the best coils for that aplication
Each coil (For two cylinders) goes for aprox. $50.00


----------



## fush23 (May 15, 2002)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

Any news on installing this yet? Also is the harness terminated or do you need to tap it into your existing haress? If you need to wire it to the existing harness is there a place you can buy connectors so you can just remove the existing engine harness all together?


----------



## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (fush23)*

theres no way its literally "plug and play", i wanna see this


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_theres no way its literally "plug and play", i wanna see this

Literally no. what we mean is that the ECU comes "plug and play" with a base map allready ready for you to star your car and go to the shop or dyno to fine tune the engine...
Yes the existing harness has to be cut and rewire with the MicroTech harness and the stock sensors, if you have the chance for getting the sensors or another harness from any other car that would be great .....


----------



## golfvrsc (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

how long until one is installed? tech? Still a GB in progress??


----------



## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

well, i am no expert in this area. but i am getting information as i go and from what i can tell, NO ONE has talked about using this system on any 4 cyl engines. i am sure that it will work, but until someone has actually used it,i am sticking with the SDS. which has been proven. like i said,i am NO expert, just adding some more CRAP to this thread.


----------



## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Vento FI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vento FI* »_
Regarding the throttles by wire, one of the things that we are doing is to leave the stock ECU to work with all the other stuff the car and the MicroTech for the engine (Like timing and Fuel) and what we do is to tap the signal wire in the TPS and so far it works like a charmed










no way that stock ecu will run the DBW with all eth oetrh stuff unplugged , you do have to disconnect factory spark, fuel and MAF, without those i HIGHLY doubt it will work

any progress? let us know and good luck







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (scott66)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scott66* »_i am sure that it will work, but until someone has actually used it,i am sticking with the SDS. which has been proven. like i said,i am NO expert, just adding some more CRAP to this thread.

Right, you don't need to be an expert to realize there is safety in numbers. SDS works and many people are happy with it. 
I want a system that is programmable via a laptop so there's a much more robust user-interface/display I can do data logging, etc., so SDS doesn't fit the bill for me.
You guys might want to consider the DTA EXP48. DTA is widely proven on VR6 and 4cyl turbo applications. Not as popular as SDS or Autronic in the USA but the feature set is pretty nice and it has a good reputation. I'm ordering one for a friend for about $914. It can use your stock temp sender, a $50 GM MAP sensor, and a $30 air temp sensor, as well as factory crank angle sensors on newer cars.
There... I've added my crap to the thread now too!


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (D Wiz)*

I know it's been done before and with no problems, because the DBW does not interface with the ECU it only sends a signal to the servo or what ever you want to call it, so the Throtlle will open...


----------



## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

I am scraping togher money to buy a microtech as we speak.I'll let you guys know how it goes.I have to finish putting a vr6 in a 91GLI then we will be selling it for my cut to buy a standalone set up.


----------



## Xeve (May 22, 2003)

*I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!!*

A group of fellow dub drivers just ordered 3 LT12's and an LT8...
The applications are:
1 LT12 for a VR6 w/ distributor for a 1992 (OBD1) VR6 engine
1 LT12 for a 1995 (OBD1) Jetta VR6 w/ coilpacks
1 LT12 for a 1995 VR6 (OBD1) w/ coilpacks
1 LT8 for 2003 GTI 1.8T (OBD2) drive-by-wire.
Will be ordereing more for MKIV VR6t's after these are installed.
We'll keep ya'll posted!


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Xeve)*

Definetly interested in seeing this run on MK4 VR6T's. Right now, I narrowed it down to these three:
Perfect Power SMT6 (piggy-back/stand alone) $550 installed
Haltech E6X $1200 installed
Microtech LT12 $????


----------



## garyw (Oct 17, 1999)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (LoGIc)*

I'm deciding between the DTA P8Pro, Tec3, Haltech E6X since there are shops in my area which carry those and can install and tune those also.
I was thinking about the Microtech LT8 or the LT12 before, but then took it out of my list because it has no closed loop feature.
Gary


----------



## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (garyw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *garyw* »_I'm deciding between the DTA P8Pro, Tec3, Haltech E6X since there are shops in my area which carry those and can install and tune those also.
Gary

*chanting* DTA! DTA! DTA! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The only thing the P8Pro doesn't have that I might want is knock sensor support but that isn't a showstopper. A good wideband AFR meter and proper tuning is what's really important.


----------



## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Angular)*

I just got my LT-12 today and I'm reading the instruction manual so I can start the installing this weekend







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Vento FI)*

who the hell wants stand alone and drive by wire...... defeats the purpose IMHO


----------



## LoGIc (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (garyw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *garyw* »_I was thinking about the Microtech LT8 or the LT12 before, but then took it out of my list because it has no closed loop feature.

Thats exactly why the SMT6 is at the top of my list....Cheapest solution! Uses factory sensors, you still keep all Motronic functions (e.g Dash, ABS, Cruise) and most important, Full open/close loop support.
Take a look at tech doc AN 3.2 and you'll see why:
http://www.perfectpower.com/Do...s.asp 
_*Possibilities:* 
RPM MAP DEFLECTION: It is possible to choose different closed loop lambda for different RPM's.
THROTTLE MAP DEFLECTION: It is possible to force the engine to a lean lambda loop at partial load and to a rich loop at full throttle.
ENGINE TEMPERATURE: All of the above can be influenced so that it only takes effect when the engine is warm (or cold!).
*Conclusion:* 
Most of us spend 90% of the time while driving a car in the "CRUISING" mode due to speed and traffic restrictions. The SMT6 is the ideal tool to improve the cruising performance, while enhancing the power output at full throttle when overtaking. This can be done by intercepting the "CLOSED LOOP LAMBDA". The interception of the signal is not detectable!_


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_who the hell wants stand alone and drive by wire...... defeats the purpose IMHO

That makes no sense. Nothing wrong with drive by wire as long as it works well.


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## Mike GP (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Vento FI)*

Just finished fitting my system (LTX-12) and it is an amazing system, really easy to use and good layout on the laptop version.
One of the nicer standalones I've seen.
Now just for the tuning


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## BahnStormer202 (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Mike GP)*

anything new on this system?


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
*chanting* DTA! DTA! DTA! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The only thing the P8Pro doesn't have that I might want is knock sensor support but that isn't a showstopper. A good wideband AFR meter and proper tuning is what's really important.

Yeah, a good wideband and AFR gauge will help you tune, but it isn't going to stop the weather from changing. A knock sensor isn't a show stopper but it is an engine saver.


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_who the hell wants stand alone and drive by wire...... defeats the purpose IMHO

I do, ever heard of traction control?


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Mike GP)*

Hey Mike
How much boost are you running with the LT-12 to get those number 318 whp???
I'm installing mine this weekend and so far the LT-12 is so but so versatile that I still can't believe how good this system is...
Are you usint the stock coilpack or Bosh???


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

hey guys, i havent been around paying attention to this post much recentley, mainly because since i first got into the microtechs they were around 750USD, and that was one of the main selling features(for me) of this product. since then, microtech raised there prices a bit, and along with the exchange rate between US and AUS, prices have soared to almost 1200$. you can easily get a haltech e6x for less than this now. and the configurebility of the e6x compared to the LT8/12 arent worth the price difference anymore to me. 
now dont get me wrong, i love my microtech but i got mine over the e6x because of the almost 400$ price difference between the two.
as for some of the other questions ive been looking at you guys are having. ive got some awnsers....ill go through some of them








130_r:
why would you want a traction controll that cuts boost when you get the tires slipping? it defeats the purpose of power. thats what the traction control on 1.8T's do. 
Also, i dont think you quite grasp what a knock sensor does. it measures for knock, and yanks timeing. thus defeating the purpose of a good tune in the first place. its a cushion for people who cant tune right. basically, if you have the right aids(wide band/dyno), and the right setup(a big enough IC to handle the boost) you will never run into a knocking problem. a proper tune includes adjusting for weather. thus the intake air temp sensor, and water temp sensor that stand alones have. you can adjust how much more fuel you want to add when your air or water temps go above a certain value. 
Mike GP:
check out this wide band, also out of AUS, http://wbo2.com its techedge's wide band, i just ordered one, got out for around 212$ includeing shipping, but not includeing the sensor, this is for the DIY kit. shouldnt be too hard to asemble, and the sensor is 30$ from the vw dealer as compared to the NTK sensor witch is almost 150$. GREAT TUNING TOOL.

LoGIc/garyvw : 
closed loop is only good for cruiseing. senses with a narrow band o2 sensor for when the motor is at a constant load for a given amount of time. the microtech for example has a feature like closed loop that i find more valueable than closed loop from a o2 sensor because you can be at closed loop at almost any load with a narrow band o2. and leaning out your car for cruiseing on the highway then getting on it is a bad thing. the microtech has a simulated closed loop by the amount of vacume the motor has on it for a given amount of time, in turn, changes the map to the rpm_cruise. so lets say your at 15hg of vaccume at 3k rpm for 10 seconds, you can lean out the car 5% for that rev, or whatever ou want to, in turn acting as a closed loop feature without haveing a need for an o2 sensor.









VentoFI:
ive been trying to get ahold of you on AIM, but havent seen you on there, i just wanted to know how the install went or if you had any questions. and if you needed any help with tuning. 
later guys, sorry about the abense. btw, im considering takeing a road trip. i wanna get outta town for a few days. i was thinking about atlanta. anyone want to lend me a coutch for the weekend??







i want to go to andretti speed lab with passion.








Daniel


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

drive by wire is gaaaaaay








i just amde the move to cable and felt the diff big time


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*

[
_Quote, originally posted by *Bejbis* »_hey guys, i havent been around paying attention to this post much recentley, mainly because since i first got into the microtechs they were around 750USD, and that was one of the main selling features(for me) of this product. since then, microtech raised there prices a bit, and along with the exchange rate between US and AUS, prices have soared to almost 1200$. you can easily get a haltech e6x for less than this now. and the configurebility of the e6x compared to the LT8/12 arent worth the price difference anymore to me. 
now dont get me wrong, i love my microtech but i got mine over the e6x because of the almost 400$ price difference between the two.



I don't know were are you getting your price list, but I just got mine for less than $1000.00 shipped from Australia and so far I will be installing this weekend since I almos know the manual by hand. I know the halteck is very good, but the configuration is very pain in the you know where...
My MicroTech came set up for my car and plug and play...
Thanks for the help in tunning but a good friend of mine will tune it soon at the dyno with the A/F and everything...
If you can't find me e-mail me and I will reply sooner than IM
Take Care
Vento


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (130_R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *130_R* »_
Yeah, a good wideband and AFR gauge will help you tune, but it isn't going to stop the weather from changing. A knock sensor isn't a show stopper but it is an engine saver.


I don't know about you, but my 16VT doesn't start knocking or pinging every time the weather changes. And it does NOT have a knock sensor. If you're paying attention to your AFR and EGT and listening to your motor instead of blasting your stereo, you probably won't have a problem. If you fill up on 87 octane, drive in 100+ F temps, blast your stereo, mash your right foot down, and don't pay attention to you engine's vital signs, you are sure to destroy your motor (assuming it's under boost).
It's also debatable how accurate knock sensing ignition systems are. A lot of times they are picking up noise that isn't knock and pulling the timing back. That's one reason some tuners don't like them.
Like I said, nice to have as a safety net but I think I can live without it.
-Bradley
Switching to DTA as soon as I can!



_Modified by Angular at 9:13 PM 11-5-2003_


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bejbis* »_130_r:
why would you want a traction controll that cuts boost when you get the tires slipping? it defeats the purpose of power. thats what the traction control on 1.8T's do. 

Well, I think you are not quite grasping how a drive by wire throttle acts when used to control traction. No where did I say cut boost or close the throttle, which you seem to think is an either all or nothing situation. First, look at how a TPS sensor works, then correlate than to an electronic throttle. Say you have a 75% throttle input at the pedal but since you have zero traction you aren't going anywhere. The computer can close the throttle until the wheels gain traction at say 50% throttle input and slowly feed the power back to the original 75% throttle.


_Quote »_
Also, i dont think you quite grasp what a knock sensor does. it measures for knock, and yanks timeing. thus defeating the purpose of a good tune in the first place. its a cushion for people who cant tune right. basically, if you have the right aids(wide band/dyno), and the right setup(a big enough IC to handle the boost) you will never run into a knocking problem. a proper tune includes adjusting for weather. thus the intake air temp sensor, and water temp sensor that stand alones have. you can adjust how much more fuel you want to add when your air or water temps go above a certain value. 


I understand how a knock sensor works, but you are aware that how a knock sensor works and how a managment system uses that information are two entirely different things aren't you? If you believe that all a knock sensor does is pull back timing, then you do not play with the same management systems that I do. A good tune does not take into account the possibiliy of cooling loss, overheating, air blockage or any number of different maladies that can aflict an automobile. When the best racecars in the world stop using knock sesnors, then I will say they are unneccessary. 
Then again I am not a cheap person and systems like Microtech, DTA and SDS are not on my radar screen. I have worked on cars with Motec and after seeing what it can do I see no value in buying systems that are not full featured for data logging and logic enabled running. Just a difference in opinion really.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (Bejbis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bejbis* »_
130_r:
why would you want a traction controll that cuts boost when you get the tires slipping? it defeats the purpose of power. thats what the traction control on 1.8T's do. 
Also, i dont think you quite grasp what a knock sensor does. it measures for knock, and yanks timeing. thus defeating the purpose of a good tune in the first place. its a cushion for people who cant tune right. basically, if you have the right aids(wide band/dyno), and the right setup(a big enough IC to handle the boost) you will never run into a knocking problem. a proper tune includes adjusting for weather. thus the intake air temp sensor, and water temp sensor that stand alones have. you can adjust how much more fuel you want to add when your air or water temps go above a certain value. 


I think you got it backwards, Beebs. Tires slipping is what is defeating the purpose of power, not the other way around. So when that happens, you really have no choice but to reduce torque at the wheel or wheels that are slipping. That can be done in any number of ways from applying pressure on the brake caliper to closing the throttle (DBW cars) to retarding timing and reducing fuel.
You shouldn't presume that 130_R doesn't understand what knock sensing ignition is and how it works. It's true that sometimes it backs the timing off unnecessarily but it is an exaggeration to say it is useful only "for people that can't tune right." Bad gasoline, intake leaks, or other unexpected conditions may cause dangerous levels of detonation. So I wouldn't say proper tuning makes you immume from detonation and only the inept need knock sensors.

_Quote, originally posted by *Bejbis* »_
LoGIc/garyvw : 
closed loop is only good for cruiseing. senses with a narrow band o2 sensor for when the motor is at a constant load for a given amount of time. the microtech for example has a feature like closed loop that i find more valueable than closed loop from a o2 sensor because you can be at closed loop at almost any load with a narrow band o2. and leaning out your car for cruiseing on the highway then getting on it is a bad thing. the microtech has a simulated closed loop by the amount of vacume the motor has on it for a given amount of time, in turn, changes the map to the rpm_cruise. so lets say your at 15hg of vaccume at 3k rpm for 10 seconds, you can lean out the car 5% for that rev, or whatever ou want to, in turn acting as a closed loop feature without haveing a need for an o2 sensor.










Simulated closed loop? Sounds like snake oil to me. Gimme a real O2 sensor, preferably wideband, thank you.
Bradley


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
I don't know about you, but my 16VT doesn't start knocking or pinging every time the weather changes. And it does NOT have a knock sensor. If you're paying attention to your AFR and EGT and listening to your motor instead of blasting your stereo, you probably won't have a problem. If you fill up on 87 octane, drive in 100+ F temps, blast your stereo, mash your right foot down, and don't pay attention to you engine's vital signs, you are sure to destroy your motor (assuming it's under boost).
It's also debatable how accurate knock sensing ignition systems are. A lot of times they are picking up noise that isn't knock and pulling the timing back. That's one reason some tuners don't like them.
Like I said, nice to have as a safety net but I think I can live without it.
-Bradley
Switching to DTA as soon as I can!
_Modified by Angular at 9:13 PM 11-5-2003_

I am going to ask you one question: Does detonation happen only when you hear it?


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (130_R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *130_R* »_Then again I am not a cheap person and systems like Microtech, DTA and SDS are not on my radar screen.

is this guy for real?








yeah i love my SDS, its no frills, 
but i mean DTA is fisher price to you?







i dont see the problem of letting up on the gas when youre spinning the tires, i would tell you to learn how to drive, but then again i dont wanna get schooled







the funniest part is disisng DTA, the sh!t that powers the 9 sec jetta LOL this thread is too funny, show me some fast cars on here DBW......


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (D Wiz)*

and why deal with o2 sensors? i mena you get stand alone to rid yoru car of all the OEM bs, just tune it right and run open loop all the time, tahts what i did with mine and it runs great on gas


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: (D Wiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D Wiz* »_
is this guy for real?








yeah i love my SDS, its no frills, 
but i mean DTA is fisher price to you?







i dont see the problem of letting up on the gas when youre spinning the tires, i would tell you to learn how to drive, but then again i dont wanna get schooled







the funniest part is disisng DTA, the sh!t that powers the 9 sec jetta LOL this thread is too funny, show me some fast cars on here DBW......

Fast cars with drive by wire throttles: Formula 1, WRC, CART, Le Mans, JGTC; you know run of the POS's compared to a nine second Jetta.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (130_R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *130_R* »_I am going to ask you one question: Does detonation happen only when you hear it?

The real question is: does enough inaudible detonation occur to damage the engine? That seems to be what you're implying. The reality is that many people with turbo systems get by without it just fine and you can too. Of course there are no guarantees in life against poor tuning, bad gas, or anything else that might cause an unfortunate incident.


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (130_R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *130_R* »_
Fast cars with drive by wire throttles: Formula 1, WRC, CART, Le Mans, JGTC; you know run of the POS's compared to a nine second Jetta.









i KNEW you would come back with taht, especially with that speedarena in your sig, 
dunno, just one less thing to worry about in my eyes,


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: (130_R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *130_R* »_I understand how a knock sensor works, but you are aware that how a knock sensor works and how a managment system uses that information are two entirely different things aren't you? If you believe that all a knock sensor does is pull back timing, then you do not play with the same management systems that I do. A good tune does not take into account the possibiliy of cooling loss, overheating, air blockage or any number of different maladies that can aflict an automobile. When the best racecars in the world stop using knock sesnors, then I will say they are unneccessary. 
Then again I am not a cheap person and systems like Microtech, DTA and SDS are not on my radar screen. I have worked on cars with Motec and after seeing what it can do I see no value in buying systems that are not full featured for data logging and logic enabled running. Just a difference in opinion really.


C'mon. Are we talking about VWs here or Formula 1 race cars? I mean, really... what forum is this?! Did I mistakenly click on the wrong link? Maybe I've had one







too many.
Who needs Motec to make their turbo VW run well? The obvious answer is almost no one. Your implying that SDS, DTA, and (I'm assuming) anything less than Motec are for "cheap" people is pretty amusing. I doubt many people here in this forum have sponsorships or vast sums of time and money to invest in things like Motec, telemetry and data logging systems, and professional track preparation for their front wheel drive Volkswagen.
Good grief. Way off topic now. Let me get back on topic by plugging DTA one more time! If you don't NEED knock sensing ignition and want an affordable system with a rich feature set and great tuning software, check out DTA.


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

damn, i hit a nerve with a bunch of people....oh well....
vento, http://www.br7racing.com website, 999$ for lt12, not shipped, minimum setup to get you going is includeing the laptop adapter is 100$, includeing the bosch coils for use with vw's on a vr6, 47$ each. thats around about 1400$ before taxes/shipping. thats bare minimum for a vr6, tack on another 100$ if you want the 3bar map sensor, or 200-400$ if you want the hand controller, or the dash unit.
Daniel


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Bejbis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bejbis* »_damn, i hit a nerve with a bunch of people....oh well....
vento, http://www.br7racing.com website, 999$ for lt12, not shipped, minimum setup to get you going is includeing the laptop adapter is 100$, includeing the bosch coils for use with vw's on a vr6, 47$ each. thats around about 1400$ before taxes/shipping. thats bare minimum for a vr6, tack on another 100$ if you want the 3bar map sensor, or 200-400$ if you want the hand controller, or the dash unit.
Daniel

Bejbis:
In My case I use the stock coilpack from the VR6 and the only thing that I added was the interface for the laptop and the guy that I bought it from gave me a good price on the LT-12 and for the whole $999.99 was the LT-12 Interfaca and shipment...
Remember that the LT-12 at $999.99 that's MSRP from MicroTech itself so the dealer can work with that a little...Then again I don't know what is your aplication since the E6K will all the sensors can get as well above the $1400.00
I'm not arguing with you, but I believe that for the $$$ al the features of the LT-12 excceds most standalone in price and what it can offer


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## 130_R (May 24, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
Of course there are no guarantees in life against poor tuning, bad gas, or anything else that might cause an unfortunate incident.


Bingo, you can't control every variable.
Everyone has a different philosophie on tuning a vehicle, I prefer to build something that runs more on edge where most people perfer to put a level of safety into tuning their systems. I like to run a lot of timing advance and a little less pressure on a turbo engine to maximize throttle response and reduce the kick at spool up. In order to to run on that fine line you have to have more advanced systems with knock sensors and what not.


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## Boragirl03 (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: any intrest in a stand alone engine management system? (Bejbis)*

My bro was gonna buy this for his car, but he said it is a [email protected]#CH to tune, so he decided against it. It looks interesting tho. My bro said he'd rather tune a Haltech.


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (130_R)*


_Quote, originally posted by *130_R* »_I like to run a lot of timing advance and a little less pressure on a turbo engine to maximize throttle response and reduce the kick at spool up. In order to to run on that fine line you have to have more advanced systems with knock sensors and what not.

That's exactly what I'm doing. 34 degees of advance (above 3000 RPM) minus 6 at 8 PSI of boost, so 28 total. No pinging on my last dyno run... with the hood up and one or two people leaning over and listening to the engine.
Knock sensors simply aren't the panacea some people think they are, especially if they aren't installed and tuned correctly. At least OEM systems are designed for that specific motor. Just how accurate are these one-side-fits all aftermarket systems with knock sensor options?
There's a reason Autronic and DTA and others don't have knock sensing, and that reason is demand. Other capabilities are in much higher demand, suggesting knock sensor support isn't so critical after all.
Here's an interesting quote (from http://offroadracing.com.au/discuss/crisis3.htm) that I found:
"You mention knock sensors, Ian who is flown to Europe to attend to a world rally car team over there, several times a year also told me knock sensors on engines are set to detect knock at a certain frequency range, and shaving as little as 0.5 mm from the cylinder head can render the knock sensor completely ineffective as the change in combustion chamber also changed the frequency of the detonation, and they know this because when they stripped the motor and saw the detonation damage, they knew they had not recorded detonation via the knock sensors and I am sure this would not be widely known as these rally teams are spending way more on development and always pushing to the limits as the budget allows."


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Angular)*

People:
I need help, by any chance any of you know where to tap the tac signal on a MicroTech for the Tachometer to work, cuase I'm not sure???
Thanks a bunch
Vento


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## Bejbis (Mar 28, 2001)

singal for the tach should be the same as stock. if you got rid of the stock coils, it came off of there, if you switched to the bosch coils, you needa tap into a lead going to the coils to get a signal for the tach.
Daniel


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## Mike GP (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Vento FI)*

I am still trying to sort out the high boost fueling as I've developed a Miss. I live at altitude (5500Ft) and That 318WHp was on my old management @1,2bar boost. (total manafold pressure of 2 bar (30Psi)
Once the Fueling is sorted I'm hoping for 350-400WHp @1,2 bar boost (MAP= 30 psi) and currently get 245WHp @0,7 bar boost (MAP = 22 psi)
Mike


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: I ordered 4 Microtech systems!!! (Mike GP)*

Ok I have the stock coil, now out of the 5 wire, one ground (Brn) one Back (+ ) and the other three, that goes to 1-6, 3-4, 5-4 wich one is the one that goes to the cluster or the tach???


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## Mike GP (Jun 13, 2003)

The one that goes to the tach in the cluster comes from the ECU and the ECU gets it signal from the pickup on the flywheel. brn is ground, black is switched positive power, and the other three are trigger wires from the ecu to the coils.


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Mike GP)*

Thanks Mike, That's what I was thinking too, but what I'm going to do is the tack output from the MicroTech to conect it directo to the cluster, or tap it from the crank sensor at the flywheel


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## Mike GP (Jun 13, 2003)

Well all I did was not cut the CAS wire to the VW ECU but I just tapped into it with the microtech CAS pickup. by doing this I didn't need to get behind my dash and the VW ECU still runs all the cluster gauges, RPM is within 50 RPM of the microtech RPM. And I just left the Microtech tach output disconnected


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## Vento FI (Apr 19, 2001)

*Re: (Mike GP)*

Thanks Mike;
That's one very good Idea, I will try that instead. What Kind of MicroTech you have LT-12?


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## Xeve (May 22, 2003)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

We've got Microtechs en route from the land down under. Any help with setups, wiring diagrams or other info greatly appreciated!


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## 90_jetta2door (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (Vento FI)*

all i have to say is MEGASQUIRT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
about 150$ DIY stand alone system


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