# Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101



## vw_pilot (May 29, 2001)

Ok, lately I've seen a surge of topics dealing with the VW 1.6L turbodiesel, Audi 5000, Saab and other turbo set ups being used on *8V gas engine*. There is a lot of us interested in forced induction - we got this forum, afterall - and there's more of us that have decent mechanical skills & will to rig stuff than those willing to shell out $2K+ to pay someone for a plug & play unit... so I would appreciate your input








I just acquired a whole 1.6L TD set-up - turbo & the housing, exhaust manifold, downpipe and oil feed & return lines. There were two different turbos used on 1.6L TD: K24 (mfd. by KKK) and Garrett T3. Mine has the T3, so here is the info I can contribute:
*Garrett T3 VW turbo*: hot wheel A/R .36, cold wheel .42
VW part # 068 145 703 type 4653842 part# 2488A
integral wastegate, opens at * ??? psi*
I would like to see what A/R's do the K24 TD units run, K26 Audi 5000 units, and Saab 900 / 9000 Garrett T3 units, or anything else you might have on your A1/ A2 / A3 8V + what car did you source it from. Maybe you could mention an intercooler & source, too.
Also, what boost do you run, stock (9.5+) / lower (8.x)compression, when does the turbo run out of breath, any gas mileage change, etc.
Are there any other turbos that would match up to the turbodiesel manifold?
Thanks again in advance... those of you guys that have done it, please dont be shy and SHARE!!!


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## junkyardpirelligolf (Sep 15, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw_pilot)*

Hey are you the one that borrowed my dremel, about 9psi, and they don't seem to like people that use TD parts, just my opinon. By the way you have to mount the TD manifold upside down, have you looked at how much grinding you will have to do on the manifold? A adapter plate could be made for just about any turbo (thick steel). What kide of fuel system are you going to run


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## XSiVE (Nov 1, 2000)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw_pilot)*

if you use a .36 exhaust a/r you will have SOOOOOOO MUCH wheelspin it wont even be funny, you will be at full boost at like 3000 rpms or before


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (junkyardpirelligolf)*

*bump*


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## VW GLI Turbo (Oct 31, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (XSiVE)*

quote:[HR][/HR]if you use a .36 exhaust a/r you will have SOOOOOOO MUCH wheelspin it wont even be funny, you will be at full boost at like 3000 rpms or before








[HR][/HR]​I can attest to that! I was spinning in 3rd at 80km/hr. It practically instantanious! Mine actually is on full boost by about 2600rpm. It's pretty fun except for loss of tires after one season!


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## Youngdubber4 (Aug 22, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw_pilot)*

I would say get the turbo rebuilt to bigger specs


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## AdidasCU (Jul 24, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (junkyardpirelligolf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Hey are you the one that borrowed my dremel, about 9psi, and they don't seem to like people that use TD parts, just my opinon. By the way you have to mount the TD manifold upside down, have you looked at how much grinding you will have to do on the manifold? A adapter plate could be made for just about any turbo (thick steel). What kide of fuel system are you going to run







[HR][/HR]​I have a question about the grinding thing. How do the exhaust manifold bolts stay in there??? They don't sit flush on the flange I am assuming... am i right? Also, can 9psi be done on 10:1 compression with an intercooler??? what would be the best way to handle fueling??? Should I go to SDS because of the compression???
Also, what is a reasonable price for this setup fromt the yard (or someone else)???? 
THANX all...
James
EDIT: I would LOVE to see a REALLY detailed website for this swap... If nobody does one by the time I get around to this, maybe I'll do it!



[Modified by AdidasCU, 5:31 PM 11-12-2001]


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## sixtyinsix (Feb 13, 2001)

*ABA motor w/td parts*

Neat site (not mine) with a build up of an ABA motor with A2 turbo diesel parts.
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Show/2887/turbovw0.html


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## RaceU (Jan 20, 2001)

*Re: ABA motor w/td parts (sixtyinsix)*

That turbo is more than capable of 15psi. I've found out the hard way that you can jury rig CIS to be safe till about 13-14psi. As others have mentioned, the boost is allways right there. I found that the tires would start spinning at about 4000 (and not below) in 1st, 2nd and third. 
P.S. With a dremel you'll be grinding for about three weeks straight to get the manifold to fit.


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## vw_pilot (May 29, 2001)

*Re: ABA motor w/td parts (RaceU)*

I only used the Dremel to cut off a seized up bolt ( u can see part of it still in the housing on the pic). I've got airtools for the bigger jobs








You could say I'm pretty good with technical literature & tools as well - I've put this car & engine together myself, it started as an automatic 1.8L - I've had the *Digifant head P&P'd and it's sitting on top of a 3A 2.0L Audi bubble block (10.5:1 compression)* that I've rebuilt myself (this was 70K miles ago / Oct.99), 6 row sandwich adapter oil cooler, put in stick 4K tranny with .71 "FN" 5th gear & lightened flywheel, dual exhaust manifold - 2 1/4" pipe to Magnaflow muffler thru a gutted cat - MSD 6A box & coil with Ecotec CB-26P valve (*passes Cali smog with flying colors!!!*), rear discs / steel lines, Eibachs, stress bars, poly bushings etc. - all the usual stuff to turn the 4 door to GTI specs & some Ghetto rigs on top of that (hence my signature)








I obviously need to study up on the turbo issue; that's why I figured I'd post it and those of you on here that have mastered it can point us others in the right direction... So:*
1. What A/R specs do you think would be reasonable for the 2.0 8V engine I have (for the tires not to spin / usable gains & powerband)? 
2. Which car make / model / year would have this turbo that you know of?
3. Would a Quaife LSD itself fix the tire spin issues for good?
4. Also, like I've said earlier... please post what you run right now and any drawbacks / what would you have done differently.Thanks again!* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I also 've just got an '84 Cabby (CIS / JH block) project car that I might throw this in depending on what I'll end up with... and dual 40 carbs & manifold sitting in a box in it's back seat for the car that will remain N/A
























[Modified by vw_pilot, 6:44 AM 11-14-2001]


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## HappyVdubber (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (AdidasCU)*

quote:[HR][/HR]EDIT: I would LOVE to see a REALLY detailed website for this swap... If nobody does one by the time I get around to this, maybe I'll do it![HR][/HR]​I am in the process of installing a TD/Junkyard setup on my MK3 2L 8V OBDI. Currently I am in the "parts aquision stage" of my project. All the information has been posted on my personal webpage...http://www3.sympatico.ca/craiglyons. The (detailed) installation is planned for Spring 2002!


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## vw mofo (Mar 5, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (HappyVdubber)*

quote:[HR][/HR]EDIT: I would LOVE to see a REALLY detailed website for this swap... If nobody does one by the time I get around to this, maybe I'll do it!
I am in the process of installing a TD/Junkyard setup on my MK3 2L 8V OBDI. Currently I am in the "parts aquision stage" of my project. All the information has been posted on my personal webpage...http://www3.sympatico.ca/craiglyons. The (detailed) installation is planned for Spring 2002![HR][/HR]​Those are some great sites... The one about the A2 is fantastic! Although I wish it was a bit more detailed. Ie what valve cover did he buy (looks like a G60).
HappyV-dubber looks like you've got a really good plan going! 
So will that turbo manifold (from a2 TD) just bolt on? What about one from a TDI? Would that work?


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## HappyVdubber (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (kkozma)*

quote:[HR][/HR]HappyV-dubber looks like you've got a really good plan going! 
So will that turbo manifold (from a2 TD) just bolt on?[HR][/HR]​Thank you,
Yes, the TD Manifiold will bolt (nothing is ever "bolt on") on, my TD parts are from a '93 Jetta TD. The orientation of the T3 on my MK3 will be the same as how it fits on the TD. Contrary to our MK2 friends, I will not have to rotate the turbo.
quote:[HR][/HR] What about one from a TDI? Would that work?[HR][/HR]​TDI Parts (Manifold, Turbo)...
I don't see why not? One thing I did learn recently, is that the TDI Oil return enters directly into the block. In the MK2 TD setups the oil return feeds back into the oilpan. So unless I want to drill a hole into the block of my engine, I will have to find the oil lines and pan from a MK2 TD or make them myself.


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## vw mofo (Mar 5, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (HappyVdubber)*

93 TD? I don't think we got those down here. Well if the TDI parts will work, I may be set. Theres a local bone yard down here that carries nothing but late model VW's. This is where I got my engine (99 Mk3 2.0 with 2000 miles).
You'll have to excuse my dumbness, but could I use the TDI turbo or is it too small? I only want to run about 7-10 PSI anyways.








More questions. Assuming the TDI uses a KKK turbo, could I use the K03 (from MK4's) and then upgrade later on to like a K04? I need to do more research! The reason I ask is I have a line on a damn near free K03, but all the existing turbo manifolds (ATP, Matrix, teamPSI) are for T3/T4 style turbos and I'm told they won't work with KKK turbos. 


[Modified by kkozma, 12:16 PM 11-13-2001]


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## HappyVdubber (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (kkozma)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Theres a local bone yard down here that carries nothing but late model VW's. This is where I got my engine (99 Mk3 2.0 with 2000 miles).[HR][/HR]​Lucky you!!! I live in Ottawa, and it is hard as hell to find any late model stuff. Not impossible, but HARD!
quote:[HR][/HR]could I use the TDI turbo or is it too small? I only want to run about 7-10 PSI anyways.







[HR][/HR]​A K24 or T3 40 trim become ineffiecent at around 12psi. So If you are planning on running 7-10psi, I think you will be OK. If you want anything more than that, you will need a larger turbo.
The upside to using this turbo 
-is that there will be little to no lag. 
The downside is :
-that it will be fully spooled by 3000rpm. 
-By 5000rpm the turbo will run outta breath and the operating temps will increase dramatically (detonation).
quote:[HR][/HR]More questions. Assuming the TDI uses a KKK turbo, could I use the K03 (from MK4's) and then upgrade later on to like a K04?[HR][/HR]​I am pretty certain that even the TDI's used a KKK k24 or a T3 40trim. The TD (TDI I believe aswell) use a specific flange to there turbo's. So, the Stock TD or TDI manifold will not be compatible with the larger KKK k26 turbo, k03, k04 or even a T3 off a Saab, Nissan, Ford, etc... 
quote:[HR][/HR]The reason I ask is I have a line on a damn near free K03, but all the existing turbo manifolds (ATP, Matrix, teamPSI) are for T3/T4 style turbos and I'm told they won't work with KKK turbos.[HR][/HR]​If you planning on using the K03 Turbo off a 1.8T I don't know what Manifold you would use. I also believe that ATP, Matrix, are not compatible with KKK turbochargers. If you are looking to possibly upgrade to a larger turbo at a later date, I would suggest the k26. You could use a manifold of a Audi 5000. The 5000 Manifold would have to be cut and welded. (5th cylinder)


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## vw mofo (Mar 5, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (HappyVdubber)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
If you planning on using the K03 Turbo off a 1.8T I don't know what Manifold you would use. I also believe that ATP, Matrix, are not compatible with KKK turbochargers. If you are looking to possibly upgrade to a larger turbo at a later date, I would suggest the k26. You could use a manifold of a Audi 5000. The 5000 Manifold would have to be cut and welded. (5th cylinder)[HR][/HR]​Well, I guess its back to the drawing board...







I suppose I could bastardize a 1.8t manifold, cut the flange off and weld it onto a different one, but then I'm relying on my welding skills on something pretty damn important.


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (kkozma)*

I know people have had great results with having thier K24s modded at a turbo shop.... perhaps that could be an option. 
On the Audi 5000 turbo setup, how good at welding cast iron are you?


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## HappyVdubber (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (sirhcorrado)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I know people have had great results with having thier K24s modded at a turbo shop.... perhaps that could be an option. 
On the Audi 5000 turbo setup, how good at welding cast iron are you?[HR][/HR]​I have been told that welding cast iron is hard, hard, hard!


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (HappyVdubber)*

Thats what I hear too.


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## HappyVdubber (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (kkozma)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well, I guess its back to the drawing board...







I suppose I could bastardize a 1.8t manifold, cut the flange off and weld it onto a different one, but then I'm relying on my welding skills on something pretty damn important.[HR][/HR]​I havne't seen the 1.8t manifold in person but...does anyone know if you could use the 1.8t flange on a TD manifold (aside from possible welding complications)? Then you could use the K03,K04 turbocharger. Wow, that would be an expensive flange!


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## psi (Oct 18, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (HappyVdubber)*

For $150 I can make you a very strong steel exhaust manifold that will take a T3(Volvo-saab-ford+others).It also works very well with the ATP downpipe and oil lines.
The G60 injection is my choice for fuel(I can make a harness to fit G60 ECU into anything).
You can weld the Audi manifolds with a good hot torch and some 100% nickel welding rod.
Chuck B


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## de motorwerks (Mar 4, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (psi)*

i have done one manifold before and could do more if money is rite


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw problems)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i have done one manifold before and could do more if money is rite[HR][/HR]​In addition to cutting and welding the 5th runner, do you think you could cut of the wastegate flange and reweld it onto the back of the 5th runner?


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## de motorwerks (Mar 4, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (sirhcorrado)*

if u mark it i will weld it ...if its possible i can weld it on there


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw problems)*

It would involve cutting the wastegate fitting at the flange and rewelding it back on the rear of the 5th runner. Is this possible? Whats the likelyhood of this working?


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (sirhcorrado)*

Ok, here we go. The red lines indicate where it would need to be cut, and the black arrow shows where I'd like the wastegate flange. Look doable?








The flange would have to be rotated a bit so the wastegate wouldn't hit the manifold... yay.


[Modified by sirhcorrado, 9:30 PM 11-13-2001]


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## RaceU (Jan 20, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (sirhcorrado)*

Chuck B
Do you make 16v manifolds too? Compatible with Golf/non-scirocco intakes? If so how much and I want one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## de motorwerks (Mar 4, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (RaceU)*

killa is building 16v manifolds i believe i dont want to cut in on him .....but sur i cun weld the flange there if u got the flange thats about the same amount of welding ....no biggie ...........can do 

most welders arnt crazy enough to say that they can weld cast iron ......but i have done many of manifold ...when i was 16 i cut 3" out of a set of big block chevy manifolds so they would fit a friends 65 chevyII......las tyear i build a turbo manifold for a probe........i already blocked off a runner in a audi .....i have welded a few cracked small blocks .........patched a hole in many cast manifolds .....if it hot enough and the rods are rite it goes smooth ......i shattered a jeep manifold once so it can happen but thats cause it was cheep a$$ cast.......i meen it exploded when i struck a ark......never seen anything like it ..........


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## speed51133 (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw problems)*

chopping off the 5th runner and welding is a real hack fest!
welding cast iron where it will get HOT and under pressure is a real gamble.
never did it, but MOST trained welders have not done it either!!!!


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## vw_pilot (May 29, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw problems)*

Thanks for replies, guys... I knew this could do some good!
Some of us can save some money and well, the skilled welders can make some - I'd much rather pay one of you true VW fans to do a good job than some dude sitting in a leather chair in an office that doesn't care or know squat about what I need








Anyway, back to some of my questions...
quote:[HR][/HR]A K24 or T3 40 trim become ineffiecent at around 12psi. So If you are planning on running 7-10psi, I think you will be OK.
...it will be fully spooled by 3000rpm. 
...By 5000rpm the turbo will run outta breath and the operating temps will increase dramatically (detonation).[HR][/HR]​So, what size turbo would you consider safe for running with stock (10.0-10.5:1) compression on mild boost 7-10psi? What A/Rs should it have - is there some equation to calculate it? I'm looking for something that would not crap out before 6000 rpm. Anyone has the specs on the Saab 900 / 9000 turbos or any other T3 units that would be good?
Come on!!!!!!!


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (vw_pilot)*

Bumporama.


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## psi (Oct 18, 2001)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (sirhcorrado)*

Ive tried the 5k turbo manifold.Plan on modifying the structure of your car to make this work.
16v turbo manifolds!Me and Mr Watts are looking into seting up a 16v turbo G60 digifant motor.Tallblock with 16v head.I will probably be doing the fab on the parts,and they will do the electronics.


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## sirhc (Sep 23, 1999)

*Re: Junkyard turbo set-up summary 101 (psi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Ive tried the 5k turbo manifold.Plan on modifying the structure of your car to make this work.
[HR][/HR]​What do you mean by this?


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