# VRT.. throttle body hits turbo??



## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

Okay so I started test fitting for my turbo build on my 12v mk2, and I mounted everything up lose and the thrttole body is just about touching the compressor housing I wouldn't be able to get a coupler on the TB. It seems like I have three options, either space the turbo farther away off the manifold(its a precision t3/t4 60 trim), or flip the turbo over so the exhaust is on the passenger side which seems like a bad idea, or run a short runner intake but I heard those lose power. The manifold is an ebay manifold and I assume that's why I don't have a lot of room what do you guys advise is the best option for gaining clearance to the TB?


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

If it is an Ebay manifold, it is most likely based off of the ATP unit. The turbo provided by ATP when buy the "stage II" system is a full T4 with an on-center hotside. This lowers the whole turbo assembly away from the throttle body. Your other option like you stated is to use a short runner manifold. I would imagine no matter which one you choose, you will be able to hit your power goal easily. I run the Flipside unit on my personal car and it allows me to make almost 400 whp at under 19 psi with a plain T4 60-1. If I am leaving something on the table by running that manifold, I am not going to lose sleep over it. 
http://www.flipsidecustoms.com/Gallery/Products/IntakeManifolds/IntakeManifolds.htm


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

this is the problem..









hmmm maybe i could weld the tb onto the side of the manifold... like right here


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

WeeZFan69 said:


> hmmm maybe i could weld the tb onto the side of the manifold... like right here


thats not the manifold, thats the valve cover. you couldnt weld the T-body on there, as that bump is the cam gears.

you could add a phenolic spacer to the intake manifold. that would space it out a cm or so.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

cam gears would be the other side btw...  

just have a short runner made for your car and call it a day... just remember that you are at 10.5:1 so you really wont loose that much power (tq) down low with an sri ... plus loosing some torque down low will save you from breaking parts... i will also suggest a progressive controller with your meth injection system :beer: 


have you tried clocking the turbo pointed all the way up?


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

ya tried clocking it all the way up and it kind of hits the firewall. And ya I know theres a huge spot on the valve cover that comes even with intake, if I chop that down and make it even with the rest of the valve cover that leaves me room to put the inlet there, cause short runners are not cheap.


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## Autoboost-tech (Dec 27, 2009)

how about make a flange and pipe that bolts on where the t-body is that turns 160 degrees or what ever it needs and mount the t-body down stream towards the front of the motor, could work!


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

*Stock Intake Mani*

To reiterate what was said before, if you are bent on retaining your stock upper intake manifold...

ATP/ATP Clone = on-center

Kinetic = tangential


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

unfortunately im bent on using the turbo and manifold, SRI is still an option, but for now if I can modify the stock one to work itll get me running alot faster. I also like the idea of running an elbow off the oriignal TB flange. I havne't seen too many people modding stock intake manifolds though.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

PjS860ct said:


> cam gears would be the other side btw...


doh. i meant to type caps, but typed gears.

if the OP did want to go that route, getting a plastic mk4 valve cover would make it easier.


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Using the ATP style manifold, the T3/T4 was designed to be flipped over the opposite way than what you have it (inlet on the drivers side). In order to run it the way you have it now, a T4 (on center housing) would be required, which would drop the turbo down lower in the engine bay and give you the clearance that you require.


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## juststarted (Apr 14, 2003)

Do you have room to flip the turbo over? that should give you the clearance and run your tubes the opposite direction to a front mount...


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

Not a big fan of trying to flip the turbo over, downpipe would be hard to route


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

TBT-Syncro said:


> thats not the manifold, thats the valve cover. you couldnt weld the T-body on there, as that bump is the cam gears.
> 
> you could add a phenolic spacer to the intake manifold. that would space it out a cm or so.


And I know that is obviously the valve cover, I am going to trim that all the way to even with the rest of the valve cover since tahts as tall as it needs to be to clear the cam caps. Becaus as you said that bump is not there to make room for the cam caps its there to have room to put the crankcase vent. there will still be a one inch section of that bump at the front of the valve cover there so I can put a fitting and be able to vent the motor.


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

I'm going to need to get a longer throttle cable, I was using the stock MK2 8v throttle cable but it is about a foot too short atleast, hmmm I wonder which VW throttle cables were atleast a foot longer than mk2 8v's. Not sure about how much longer VR cables are.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

WeeZFan69 said:


> I'm going to need to get a longer throttle cable, I was using the stock MK2 8v throttle cable but it is about a foot too short atleast, hmmm I wonder which VW throttle cables were atleast a foot longer than mk2 8v's. Not sure about how much longer VR cables are.


mk4 aeg


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

gettting there....


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## juststarted (Apr 14, 2003)

are you modifying the valve cover too?


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## son of planrforrobert (Dec 21, 2009)

In so I can see where this goes


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

juststarted said:


> are you modifying the valve cover too?


yes unless I find someone with a MK4 VR valve cover


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## 75Bus88fox (Feb 27, 2005)

i just had this same problem 2 weeks ago, a 2 hour drive later, picked up a short runner, and badda bing, problem solved... good luck with this modded manifold :thumbup:


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

nice, maybe i can find a cheap short runner someday... but I think this will end up working better than a short runner anyways.










plenty of room to hook up a boost pipe through that hole next to the fender, and enough room underneath to still fit my 4" MAF and filter.


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## 1.8TRabbit (Nov 15, 2004)

I say get rid of that DIY intake and go with a custom short runner. :beer:


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

1.8TRabbit said:


> I say get rid of that DIY intake and go with a custom short runner. :beer:


how come??? cheapest ones are like $500 and tahts just someone tig welding a pipe onto a stock manifold... this cost zero dollars.
Oh and how is a short runner not a DIY intake?

C2 makes a real nice piece but come on $900??? Are they serious. And I have no idea if any of these would fit in my MK2

BTW opinions suck when you dont give reasons. Not sure why you said that? For the look, or performance or what? Why do you think a short runner would be worth it? I'd like some reasons so I don't just spend that cash cuase people say so.


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

Anyone else have any opinions on how this thing will work?


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

WeeZFan69 said:


> Anyone else have any opinions on how this thing will work?



i think his worked out pretty good...










and a link to his thread....

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4910977-attempted-28-30psi-on-a-stock-vr6-turbo-was-fun


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## 92gtikid (Jun 4, 2004)

People use short runners so it makes routing the intercooler pipeing easier for one. 

Hence not banging your head against the wall trying to figure out how your going to make your DIY intake manifold work. 

I mean they are a lot of money, but, in the long run it's worth it I think. But, that is just my opinion. It's not going to be easy to make that manifold work. If you dont want to buy a short runner maybe buy a stock VR6 manifold. 

But, reguardless good luck with your project.


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

92gtikid said:


> People use short runners so it makes routing the intercooler pipeing easier for one.
> 
> Hence not banging your head against the wall trying to figure out how your going to make your DIY intake manifold work.
> 
> ...


hows that intake not gonna work? its welded and coming out the side like i need it to? short runners LOSE power. Why would I pay money to make my IC piping a littlle easier? and to lose power?


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

These threads are always interesting in general because the a large percentage of those who post up advice never seem to have any direct experience with exactly what they are recommending.

There is now this "rule" that a short runner is advisible whenever you are in a turbo application. Again with either not having run/tested one vs a stock intake people keep making these recommendations. More amazing is that the advice completely does not take into account the rest of the car's configuration... e.g turbo size, boost level to be run, compression ratio, etc.

Depending on how this OP intends to run his car an SRI might NOT be a good idea. I run an SRI on a car that sees relatively high boost so any loss of bottom end torque is not critical (and yes I have an accurate comparisson because this car had a stock intake with the same turbo etc prior to fitting the SRI). In this case the SRI is perfect as it maximizes the airflow when beating on the car/WOT. It is nowhere near as aggressive in terms of acceleration as another setup running the stock intake mani.

The car I daily drive, which sees a lot of time in vacuum I can definitely appreciate the effects of having a long runner. The stock torque curve of the VR, designed for the stock intake is actually pretty decent. If you are not running a ton of boost why would you want an SRI? Just because piping is easier? Seriously if running some IC piping is so challenging you probably don't need to be doing a turbo install.

The modified manifold that the OP is using will give a good compromise between long and short runner for his application.


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

wow that might have been the best post ive read on vortex in a while as far as being filled with good experience and knowledge and well put:thumbup:


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## 75Bus88fox (Feb 27, 2005)

ide like to see how this works out in the end, i only went with the short runner ecuase it was local and i was in a crunch to get the car back on the road, being as it is my daily.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Garrett TO4E on-center turbo, ATP manifold, stock intake manifold and throttle body. It's tight, but it fits and nothing touches. That turbo uses the smaller 3 in. inlet, 2 in. outlet compressor cover though which makes fitment easier. Also running a New South phenolic spacer which gives me another ~1/4 in. of clearance.

Nothing wrong w/ a short runner, but if the turbo will fit why not save the $$ for something else like a spare trans or two Add up the SRI, fans, adapter plate (if needed), and it can get pricey.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> These threads are always interesting in general because the a large percentage of those who post up advice never seem to have any direct experience with exactly what they are recommending.
> 
> There is now this "rule" that a short runner is advisible whenever you are in a turbo application. Again with either not having run/tested one vs a stock intake people keep making these recommendations. More amazing is that the advice completely does not take into account the rest of the car's configuration... e.g turbo size, boost level to be run, compression ratio, etc.
> 
> ...


Good post. I've always said that if you can fit the turbo w/ the stock intake and aren't making so much power that you want to LOSE torque then run the stock manifold. It's free and has runner length compensation built in. I think it looks better too especially painted or polished.

Street/strip car, 300-400 whp, Kinetic kit etc., air-air intercooler, and IMO an SRI makes no sense. *For those setups* they're bought for bragging rights or to acheive a look which is fine. Just know they don't make the car faster.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

yup atp manifold and on center turbo fits with stock intake manifold...

OP is using atp clone, and a tang turbo... why its so close... but if he bought the kinetic manifold instead... everything would have worked out fine 


good thing about the turbo he picked is that it flows better than on center turbos :thumbup:

:beer:


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## WeeZFan69 (Aug 3, 2003)

PjS860ct said:


> yup atp manifold and on center turbo fits with stock intake manifold...
> 
> OP is using atp clone, and a tang turbo... why its so close... but if he bought the kinetic manifold instead... everything would have worked out fine
> 
> ...


ya I didn't realize that stuff wasnt gonna fit or I probably would have spent hte extra few hundred and got the kinetic turbo manifold. and i already had the atp clone port matched to the new head and pinned to... so I was kinda stuck with this ex manifold.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

your setup now mite actually better... cus the tbody is away from the hot exhaust manifold and turbo and you still have the runner length


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