# BFI Fox Drag Car - build thread



## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes you read that title right, we at BFI have begun a new project and its a Fox drag car. The beast is a 91 2 dr bought about a yr ago as a semi-runner needing a head gasket and possibly a new transmission. Head gasket was weeping between #1 and #2 and was swapped out with a SPA high compression head gasket. Trans turned out to simply be bad linkages/bushings and was good as new after being replaced. 










Video made this past weekend for its maiden voyage to the track: 






It has now been stripped down as bare as possible and we were able to get out a weighed 317lbs! Not bad for a car that begun life with only 2150lbs to haul from the factory. Also managed to kill the OEM clutch at the strip. This week a new clutchnet clutch and Jegs racing seat for the return trip to the strip. 

Plans are to continue the upgrade in steps, finally reaching(hopefully) 400hp with a BT aba swap. Next major step is a small turbo on the existing Digi set up and motor, mostly as an experiment to see if we can get digi to run with boost. Following that plans are for 2 steps of ABA turbo builds. The first a medium boost set up running ABA motronic. Then a big turbo high boost quest for low ET's 

More pics and details to follow...:thumbup:


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## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

Not generally a 'drag guy' but I'll be watching this thread with interest.


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

nice are guys going to get lsd for it. also the trannys cant hold a lot of hp i have broke a tranny on 22 psi on meth.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

Nice project :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

> kerensky
> 
> Not generally a 'drag guy' but I'll be watching this thread with interest.


 We have all kinds here at BFI 



> vwturbofox
> 
> nice are guys going to get lsd for it. also the trannys cant hold a lot of hp i have broke a tranny on 22 psi on meth.


 Yes I figure we will find all the weak spots of the Fox as the project moves forward. Already got the feelers out locally for a quantum or Audi 4000 trans. Though at this point we might be pulling the stock 5spd out and putting in a 4spd as at its current speed it doesnt get to the top of 4th even at the traps.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Hey Adam, So... how come I didn't know about this?? 

4 speed might be a good option for the strip. I'm also sure you've thought about it, but this thing needs, _needs_, to be running on alcohol. SPA can supply almost everything you need, and if not then I can help if you get stuck too. I have been considering building a 1/4mi specific Fox for years but never manage to clear out enough of the other projects to consider it, and would love to see you guys do it right. Seriously, with the times the Brazilians are running you could be building a seriously competitive FWD watercooled VW.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes SPA is on board already for quite a few 'special' parts >many we hope to sell in the USA in the near future.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Yes SPA is on board already for quite a few 'special' parts >many we hope to sell in the USA in the near future.


 Nice. Seriously, i'm hoping to see a alcohol fueled turbo lighting up slicks! To keep it full Brazilian style, a SPA blow through carb setup on the stock AP style engine would confuse the hell out of people, and the smell/burning eyes of the alcool setup would be mindblowing for most VW kids here


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Pics from the tear down:


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## Beetle.freak (Apr 16, 2009)

Nice project !!! I definitely want to watch this one !!!!!!


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Good to see you cut out the rear seat panel - it does nothing anyway. Following those lines, it might be worth cutting out the speaker shelf too and if you haven't done it already, there's two hugely heavy crash bars in the doors - they can be annoying to remove if the door is otherwise full (windows cranks etc) but they really do weigh a LOT.


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## doppelfaust (Aug 15, 2007)

the brit said:


> Nice. Seriously, i'm hoping to see a alcohol fueled turbo lighting up slicks! To keep it full Brazilian style, a SPA blow through carb setup on the stock AP style engine would confuse the hell out of people, and the smell/burning eyes of the alcool setup would be mindblowing for most VW kids here


 Uphill drag strip... awesome.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

A few more details about the car as it sits now. Has a custom set of coilover sleeves, springs and spring hats with MK1 Koni yellow front inserts and MK3 Bilstein sport rear shocks. Currently running 350lb front and 450lb rear springs. 

Battery has been relocated to the rear in the spare tire well: 










Gauges go in today


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> A few more details about the car as it sits now. Has a custom set of coilover sleeves, springs and spring hats with MK1 Koni yellow front inserts and MK3 Bilstein sport rear shocks. Currently running 350lb front and 450lb rear springs.


 Nice. A1 fronts and A3 rears will let you get the proper South American drag stance going on  

What's the plan with the car overall? Street legal or track only? Will you be trying to shave as much weight as possible from it (keeping stock glass etc?)? I would love to see a 2 door with just the outer skins left, with a fibreglass truck bottom, and all the flat glass replaced. Might start pushing you for what cats you can race in though..


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## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

This is going to be pretty awesome


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

This is stage1 so to say with the level of the build as far as weight removal. We got more than I thought out of it and it is noticably quicker to drive. And we have plans to go run it again this weekend with a new clutch and some better tires for the next data point. But this will be the last time its street driven, in the future we plan to tow it to the track and back. 

Down the line, that is after the ABA and turbo set up we will go back and put it on a diet again, lexan windows, fiberglass body parts, etc. 

More pics, installation of the BMW E30 motor mounts also installed a 034 track density trans mount. Later we will be swapping to poly and possibly delrin motor mounts: 



















Modifications to the E30 mounts and comparison to the stock fox mounts


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## minitank (Jan 29, 2008)

YES YES YES. I fully approve of this build thread & await more rowdy photos hahaha


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

Dont use the audi tranny . I think 4 speed will do much better.. sounds like my project but mine is daily driver  Also great to see you guys building a fox.so are you guys going to get lsds cause i am first in line when you start selling them


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## VW Fox (Aug 1, 2000)

Nice! :beer:


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## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

This is a great project. 77mph isn't too bad either.
Watching with interest for more updates.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

By "adding lightness" and some real tires we ran a 15.99 yesterday:what:


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## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

that is pretty damn quick


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Also had our first 'failure' the trans is kaput. The diff sheared off from both input shafts, kind of surprising with a still basically stock motor and DOT legal tires. But should have a couple of new to us 4spds this weekend to go in it. The Fox will also have positive pressure for its next outing....


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## SexyFox (Mar 12, 2010)

Yay!!! I am really happy to see this actually getting worked on guys.  I was at waterfest and you were speaking of this project, just really happy to see it getting started.


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## oRANGEJULIUS (Jul 30, 2006)

Great time slip! Very cool project. I am looking forward to seeing how you work with the Fox digi to accept a little boost; I have all the faith in the world it can be done.  Keep up the good work.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

oRANGEJULIUS said:


> I am looking forward to seeing how you work with the Fox digi to accept a little boost;


Step 1. Remove digi.
Step 2. Install blowthrough carb setup from Brazil (?!)


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

This looks like another GREAT and FUN project coming out of the Science Lab of BFI

C2-subscribed


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## macho212 (Feb 16, 2004)

Nice Proyect
Greetings from Eurohouse Puerto Rico


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

the brit said:


> Step 1. Remove digi.
> Step 2. Install blowthrough carb setup from Brazil (?!)


Good plan, but not the way we are heading. It will be a low boost set up using the stock fox Digi. As we just had our first failure, though I sure it wont be the last, with stock power levels we are going to increase power slowly each time. We could go whole hog right away with the BT ABA, but I think we would just have a alot of single run days due to breakage. 

The stock Fox is out, we have a hybrid motor recently pulled out of my caddy. Its a G60 bottom end with an OBD1 ABA head. So that is going in along with a SPA 2750 T25 turbo. Going to limit boost to 7-8psi for now and see how it goes.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Getting more and more like a drag car and less and less like a street car


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

yep that is looking like a race car more and more. cant tell from the photos have you removed all the sound insulation from the car yet? needs more duct tape and tek screws!!


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Banned wagon said:


> yep that is looking like a race car more and more. cant tell from the photos have you removed all the sound insulation from the car yet? needs more duct tape and tek screws!!


And too much wipers, and door seals etc :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Wipers are now gone actually, as are the door bars and another 12lbs of misc engine parts, brackets, ste. The seals and glass stay as the car lives outside at the shop.


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## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

what are you doing for exhaust?


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## motvatedub (Nov 4, 2003)

going to get interesting


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## hessiandave (Jul 5, 2009)

awesome cant wait to see more


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Wipers are now gone actually, as are the door bars and another 12lbs of misc engine parts, brackets, ste. The seals and glass stay as the car lives outside at the shop.


Ahh, makes total sense then 

Those door bars do suck. Did you have to trim/cut the door to get either of them out? Also, did you remove the wiper motor etc too? It's surprisingly heavy.

I'm trying to think of other things that are 'hidden' like the bars.. Do you need to keep it street legal with headlights etc?

Have the fender liners been removed? Charcoal canister can go. Horns? That four button steering wheels is heavy; replace with a early rabbit/dasher two spoke one. Front lower bar likely isn't needed, so that and the joints could go. E-brake setup if inspection isn't needed. Front window mechanism with the quarter window is heavy; the vertical guide can be removed very quickly (two phillips screws IIRC); replace with one piece lexan or similar. The back window is flat so can be replaced very easily. Deminishing returns, but there's a bunch of electrics that aren't needed (lighter output etc). I think you already have the smallest front rotors; Lupo 3Ls run a aluminum front caliper and struts - replacing the caliper would be easy at least (mk4 rear might be a good donor if lighter). 

Has the heating system gone? The blower fan, resister pack etc could then go along with the rain tray. When I was cutting my back to shave it I realised that they didn't weld it though, it's just pressed/crimped, so leave a cm or two vertically to save having to weld it :laugh:

Ooooh, how about the subframe/support pieces on the hood and trunk? I always dreamt about removing those and also gutting the door panels/quarter panel/inside of trunk if I was going to build a fox drag car.. Same with inner fenders.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

We drilled a 1.5" hole in the end of the door to remove the door bars. There is nothing left in the engine bay that isnt the motor, all the other evap, emissions, washer, etc along with their various mounting brackets were removed. Front swaybar came off as part of the original strip down before the last trip to the track. 

The one headlight is staying, the strip we are running at has some late hours and the turnaround area at the end of the track gets quite dark. Same for the blower motor at this time it stays since we will be running in the cooler weather for the defroster to still work, somewhat. 

Got the new USRT MK4 AEG short runner intake and a new, to us, 5spd out of a 93 fox. In case I didnt mention it before the original fox motor was yanked in favor of my old Caddy hybrid motor for this next step. Its a G60 bottom end with a OBD1 ABA head, which ends up with an 8:1 CR.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> We drilled a 1.5" hole in the end of the door to remove the door bars. .


 That sounds about right. Stupid things.


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

Should be fun to see what you guys do with this car. 

Here is the last big project of that flavor. He hit the limitations and now has gone Audi quattro... 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-North-America-(my-build-thread)-20VT-content


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Yeah I followed his threads and progress with that car. Our plans are to stick with the old school set up, 8v for life! But really I can forsee many more failures and its hard to argue with the costs of replacing 8V motors & parts, even the ABA it will soon be> 

Time for a new motor, well to the fox anyway. Its a motor pulled from my Caddy consisting of a G60 bottom end and OBD1 ABA head. 

Out with the old:


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## FoxSt (Jan 22, 2006)

Do I spy a Masarti Bi-Turbo in the background? What a love-hate relationship I have with those cars..


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

FoxStRacing said:


> Do I spy a Masarti Bi-Turbo in the background? What a love-hate relationship I have with those cars..


 Yes, yes you do. I have the same relationship with them. Which is why I have 2:screwy:


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## joshbucolo (Sep 1, 2008)

does this project mean more fox parts/appreciation on bfi's website?


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## v-dubs 'n' metal (Jan 15, 2009)

awesome. im excited


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

joshbucolo said:


> does this project mean more fox parts/appreciation on bfi's website?


agreed! I was about to email you guys asking you guys to start making Poly Suspension bushings


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

IIRC I have the BFI poly snubber mount in my Fox.


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

DubbinChris said:


> IIRC I have the BFI poly snubber mount in my Fox.


ya... the snubber mount is basically a rabbit front motor mount though :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Yes I have been talking with SPA about their bushings as well as sourcing some of the other parts from the area for us and to be included with our regular orders from SPA.

Progress has slowed a bit on the car, most of us at the shop were gone all last week at SEMA. As well had a few issues with suppliers sending the incorrect clutch/pressure plate set ups. Should have that sorted out now, hopefully. 

New, to the Fox anyway, motor is in tho:


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

looks nice what intake mainfold are going to use


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Yes I have been talking with SPA


Sweet! please keep us informed!!!!



>


hey, have you guys tested the Mk1 throttle cable bracket on the Fox? I've been told it won't line up correctly on a B chassis car? If you guys make a bracket to work, make extras


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

vwturbofox said:


> looks nice what intake mainfold are going to use


A modified USRT AEG short runner intake is going on it, but need to get the correct clutch and flywheel on the car to put the trans back in and get the engine sitting correctly.



> hey, have you guys tested the Mk1 throttle cable bracket on the Fox? I've been told it won't line up correctly on a B chassis car? If you guys make a bracket to work, make extras


It is a crossflow now, so no need for a valve cover mounted throttle cable bracket


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> It is a crossflow now, so no need for a valve cover mounted throttle cable bracket


ahhh right.... make a bracket anyways (for the rest of us B chassis people  )


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

this is pretty rad. I only wish it were kept street legal. I hate trailer queens.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

syntax said:


> this is pretty rad. I only wish it were kept street legal. I hate trailer queens.


I don't think a drag car can be listed as a trailer queen. Almost the opposite..


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

trailer trash FTW!!


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

the brit said:


> I don't think a drag car can be listed as a trailer queen. Almost the opposite..


I see what you're saying. It definitely wouldnt be a queen. Trailer pig I suppose, but either way. having a car you cant drive out on the streets makes it not a car to me. Similar to those ridiculous fiberglass body 8 second drag cars. This is basically the same thing in terms of usefulness. I guess what I like to see is people surprising people. I dont care if it's a hot built VW vs a corvette or a tuned honda surprising someone who thinks they're fast in an R32.
Nobody will be surprised about a track built anything (fox or otherwise) pulling impressive 1/4 times when that's all it does. That's why I love the local "run what you brung" street car nights. Run 12s on wednesday nights and drive yourself home with slicks in the trunk. I bet it can be done with this project. It seems more "fox" to me. budget cool, you know? Otherwise the only surprise will be "why is anyone doing this to a fox?"


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

syntax said:


> I see what you're saying. It definitely wouldnt be a queen. Trailer pig I suppose, but either way. having a car you cant drive out on the streets makes it not a car to me. Similar to those ridiculous fiberglass body 8 second drag cars. This is basically the same thing in terms of usefulness. I guess what I like to see is people surprising people. I dont care if it's a hot built VW vs a corvette or a tuned honda surprising someone who thinks they're fast in an R32.
> Nobody will be surprised about a track built anything (fox or otherwise) pulling impressive 1/4 times when that's all it does. That's why I love the local "run what you brung" street car nights. Run 12s on wednesday nights and drive yourself home with slicks in the trunk. I bet it can be done with this project. It seems more "fox" to me. budget cool, you know? Otherwise the only surprise will be "why is anyone doing this to a fox?"


Unfortunately running a 10-11 second Fox (maybe not what this is going to be, but follow me here) using a VW 4 cylinder watercooled engine is a pretty big feat, with weight being a major factor getting there. Keeping it street legal would be a token gesture; front and rear lights, some resemblence of bodywork, and street tires for the street at least. 

Keeping a drag car road legal just to say it is doesn't do much for me. That's practically what my fox is except it's all metal and using lighter OEM Brazilian market bumpers etc. There's no heating, sound proofing, radio, speakers, rear seats etc, yet it's what I consider a fully road legal car. Remove the lights and trimming inside and it's a 'race' car, with the rollcage already installed. 

Unless the car is being built to complete in a specific class with specific specfications, then IMO to hell with the roadlegalness. I'm postitively giddy about seeing a North American Fox being built as a drag car, just like a LOT of Brazilians and Argentinians do all the time, and I'm living vicariously through the build. If (when?) I finally get time to build one myself, I would love to go even less street legal ala the South Americans - no rear floor pan, no side glass, alcohol turbo, no exhaust, minimal sheet metal made of metal. Any Fox that is running sub-11 (sub-10??) second 1/4 miles would be AMAZING in North America, and likely have to worry about a whole different set of rules other than just having a horn and lights.

*or whatever you fancy. :beer:

Also; I don't think four slicks will fit in a sedan's trunk, but maybe i'm wrong :laugh:


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

the brit said:


> 1. Keeping a drag car road legal just to say it is doesn't do much for me. That's practically what my fox is except it's all metal and using lighter OEM Brazilian market bumpers etc. There's no heating, sound proofing, radio, speakers, rear seats etc, yet it's what I consider a fully road legal car. Remove the lights and trimming inside and it's a 'race' car, with the rollcage already installed.
> 
> 2. If (when?) I finally get time to build one myself, I would love to go even less street legal ala the South Americans - no rear floor pan...
> 
> ...


In re 1: 
I like your fox more than I like these ridiculous brazillian foxes. its the greatest! (as evidenced by an article in performance VW)

In re 2:
My brother and I did this to our MK1 jetta for autocross. It was awesome, but in retrospect I wish it had been a fox (as jetta's hold some semblance of value). We still drove it on the streets and riveted a sheet of aluminum over it. Making race cars is way funner than making street cars. this is fact. 

In re 3:
any water cooled VW under 12 is a member of an exclusive club. I guess the only justification in doing it with a fox is even more exclusivity?

In re 4:
All you need is two. run super skinny DOT rears on narrowed OEM wheels


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

ugh. now I want to play this silly game, too!


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

syntax said:


> ...in retrospect I wish it had been a fox (as jetta's hold some semblance of value).


ow... 

haha :beer:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

The car can be driven back and forth, but really with the new spring rates and suspension set up along with the unpadded race seat would make the 90min trip each way suck, alot. As well with the distance and the high probability of mechanical/axle/trans/clutch failures as the power level increases and ET's go down trailering it there and back make much more sense.

Good news is finally got a clutch and flywheel that are actually right for the fox, SPEC Stage3. So trans is going back in and turbo plumbing will follow shortly there after.


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

exciting. I cant wait to see an ABA SRI in a fox. most people swap heads with the ABA for the sake of room, which really does make sense. I'm excited to see new and different.


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> finally got a clutch and flywheel that are actually right for the fox, SPEC Stage3


sorry to hear, good luck :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

The USRT MK4 AEG intake manifold:


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## magicninja (Sep 30, 2007)

Threads like this make me want to get another fox.


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## Kinavo (Dec 20, 2005)

Is that the exact one you are using? earlier your said its gonna be a "modified" one.


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## elmejorvw (Oct 29, 2004)

*Nice*

I use this on my vw fox but change all and is on sale now .....

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-and-tilton-dual-disc&p=68753421#post68753421


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## [Ale GTi] (Jul 17, 2009)

hey man... look at that:
http://www.4dgarage.com/loja/produtos_descricao.asp?lang=pt_BR&codigo_produto=71
http://www.4dgarage.com/loja/produtos_descricao.asp?lang=pt_BR&codigo_produto=68
http://www.4dgarage.com/loja/produtos_descricao.asp?lang=pt_BR&codigo_produto=67

Only an advice, here in Brazil u can find EVERYTHING for ur Fox. Youtube, "Gol arrancada" and u'll see.

Bye and good luck


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## foxyroxy206 (Nov 29, 2010)

*weight reduction..*

what are some things i can take out that will reduce my weight? i'm not trying to take out interior tho.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

foxyroxy206 said:


> what are some things i can take out that will reduce my weight? i'm not trying to take out interior tho.


Uhmm... the sound deadening... the undercarpet...


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Kinavo said:


> Is that the exact one you are using? earlier your said its gonna be a "modified" one.



We are going to have to modify the one show in the picto work with the Fox and our set up as well as convert to manual brakes. The mock up:










Which is a combo of a BBM pc and a 3" elbow. As well as shorten all the runners ~ 3/4" for hood clearance and to bolt a MK1/2 style TB to the mani, as its set up for a MK3/4 style TB.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

foxyroxy206 said:


> what are some things i can take out that will reduce my weight? i'm not trying to take out interior tho.



From what we removed the 4 heaviest items were: front bumper, rear bumper, drivers seat, and passenger seat. Each was ~40lbs. Next were the door crash bars (~10lbs ea) and the rear seat (~15lbs)


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## efritsch (Aug 21, 2002)

I'm interested in how you do the manual brake setup. Very, very interested.


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

I've been meaning to ask, how much power were you planning to put down?


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Well the build is going in stages, but for the end results we are looking to be putting down between 400-425whp


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Well the build is going in stages, but for the end results we are looking to be putting down between 400-425whp


I've always been told we have "strength" issues with our transmissions, when going over 300hp (but how much torque??), are you keeping a stash of transmissions or are you guys going with a custom swap to combat the problem?


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

yeah the tranny or clutch will never hold 400whp. why didnt you guys go stage 5 with spec?


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Well as we have already broken one trans with stock power and DOT tires, so yeah don't hold much hope for the new, to us, 5spd we just put in there living a very long or happy life.

The Spec stage3 clutch decision was based on that was well, it should hold fine for the next few stages with less 'stress' on the trans than something stiffer/stronger. 

We will be swapping the clutch to a full race set up, when we do the same with the trans. Or at least the trans guts, which will be sourced from South America. We already have a supplier for various options for full out race built gearsets and/or trans.


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> ...We already have a supplier for various options for full out race built gearsets and/or trans.


awesome. will black forest import anything for the US market?


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

efritsch said:


> I'm interested in how you do the manual brake setup. Very, very interested.


I've been running mine like that for a while: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...d-brake-booster-proper-manual-brakes-only-now.


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

syntax said:


> awesome. will black forest import anything for the US market?


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

the brit said:


> I've been running mine like that for a while: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...d-brake-booster-proper-manual-brakes-only-now.


details of how it is mounted/installed without a booster? your thread seems quite lacking of actual information... other than some funny banter about you deleting your Master Cylinder :laugh:


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## motvatedub (Nov 4, 2003)

updates?


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## 2mAn (Oct 15, 2006)

awesome! 

that time slip showed a 2.3 60ft time. launch that bitch!!:laugh:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Progress has slowed quite a bit now that the local temps are too low for the Dragstrip to be open, so it might be sometime before we have a 50*+ weekend to be able to run again


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## 2mAn (Oct 15, 2006)

just was thinking about the ABA block, that might give you problems since it sits higher. i think the PG block will be the best way to go and since you've already got one in there, maybe you guys were thinking the same thing. im curious as to why the intake manifold is facing the firewall rather than the front of the motor. when it comes tim to add an intercooler it will make the piping a little more difficult.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

2mAn said:


> im curious as to why the intake manifold is facing the firewall rather than the front of the motor. when it comes tim to add an intercooler it will make the piping a little more difficult.


 Non-intercooled alcohol fueled turbo setup with mesh for a air filter! Shortest piping ever!


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## 2mAn (Oct 15, 2006)

you could use a quantum turbo diesel manifold and the t3 or KKK turbos that come with it :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

The later version will be a full ABA, for several reasons. Obviously there is the old addage: there is no replacement for displacement. But also the car will be run on MK3 Motronic ECU and engine harness, and that requires a crank sensor. We also have quite a bit of history with high hp/boost ABA's and want to continue with the process. 

As for the intake, there are several reasons for its set up and direction. First is in this stages's set up it will not be intercooled and there is more room for cleaner routing of charge pipe behind the motor. As to an intercooler, a FMIC is of very little use on a pure drag car as it can only effectively cool with the movement of air. That will only happen for 15sec or less at a time . There are no plans for any type of FMIC on the fox. We will be using a air-to-water IC set up in the future. 

The current set up will be using an SPA 8v turbo manifold set for a T3 flange, though we will be using a small SPA 2500 T25 turbo since it will be low boost for now. Later plans we will be using SPA's version of a cast divided and equal length T3 manifold and a SPA 6000 turbo.


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## doppelfaust (Aug 15, 2007)

BFI polyurethane Fox bushing kit... DO IT!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

^^^^^x2 polyurethane Fox bushing kit. You going to use an lsd or weld the diff?any new pics with the turbo on it


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## WGC (Dec 23, 2004)

audi long block + 16v head + audi awd gearbox + big turbo + intercooler + big injector + megasquirt + forjed pistons (8,5:1) and roods + 1,6 bar of turbo pressure = +- 500cv @ 7100 rpm.


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## Difus (Jan 11, 2006)

If you going still FWD, is an option the use of a lowered subframe? Some guys use it here, with longer aluminum bushings.


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## WGC (Dec 23, 2004)

its necessary lower subframe to close hood with long block + 16v head with stock intake manyfold. 

up to 250cv for Fox stock gearbox.


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## iluvfastcarz (Mar 15, 2004)

Keeping my eyes on this one. It will suck to no longer be able to brag that I have owned the fastest VW Fox in the U.S. Great job guys, I wish you the best of luck in putting the power to the pavement and keeping the transmissions in one piece. :thumbup:opcorn::beer:


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

WGC said:


> up to 250cv for Fox stock gearbox.


 ok... I have to ask, I have never seen the abbreviation "cv"?? "crank _____"??? I assume you mean either horsepower or torque?


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Southcross said:


> ok... I have to ask, I have never seen the abbreviation "cv"?? "crank _____"??? I assume you mean either horsepower or torque?


It's the Brazilian way of saying PS, which is the European (German) way of saying (and calculating) HP.



wikipedia said:


> CV and cv -
> 
> In Italian (Cavalli), Spanish (Caballos de vapor), and Portuguese (Cavalo-vapor), CV is the equivalent to the German, PS. It is also used as the French term for the Pferdestärke, but in French, this should be written in lowercase letters as cv.
> 
> ...


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

the brit said:


> It's the Brazilian way of saying PS, which is the European (German) way of saying (and calculating) HP.


so 250cv would be about 248hp??


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## WGC (Dec 23, 2004)

250cv = 246.48081434325002 hp

http://www.convertunits.com/from/cv/to/hp


http://www.themeter.net/potenza_e.htm


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

WGC said:


> 250cv = 246.48081434325002 hp
> 
> http://www.convertunits.com/from/cv/to/hp
> 
> ...


Exactly. For as close as we're calculating using theory, different styles of dynos and complete seat of the pant guesses, just think that CV= North American HP. Never trust British HP ever though:laugh:


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## VictorArrabal (Dec 16, 2010)

I have the same "opinion" as WGC...

Here in Brazil OEM transmission generally break with 300PS (the gears that break more are the 2nd and the 3rd)...considering that American tracks have lot more grip than Brazilian, more than 250PS and you will DESTROY one gearbox per strip...Your diff and your CV joints will crush too with this power...

Here in Brazil, there are people using Passat B5 1.8T transmission...It fits perfectly with AP engine (EA827), you just have to build a second transmission bracket and make some changes on the gear change system...And this gearbox and CV joints can deal with 500PS "easily"

Good luck on you project...It is good to see a Brazilian car so well represented in the US


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

VictorArrabal said:


> Here in Brazil, there are people using Passat B5 1.8T transmission...It fits perfectly with AP engine (EA827), you just have to build a second transmission bracket and make some changes on the gear change system...And this gearbox and CV joints can deal with 500PS "easily"


And 'massage' your transmission tunnel a bit too.


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## VictorArrabal (Dec 16, 2010)

the brit said:


> And 'massage' your transmission tunnel a bit too.


Yes...I forgot to say this...

And I also forgot to say that if you want to use brazilian special gears there are two compaiues that are the BEST...First one is Bertolotti and second one is Sapinho...Everybody in brazilian drag race uses these two companies gears...But they are not cheap...Bertolotti cost about R$5,000 and Sapinho about R$3,000

Another thing... 8V AP's still ruling in here...There lots of street 8VT running about 400~500PS here, on the strip there are 8VT that can reach 800PS


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

VictorArrabal said:


> Here in Brazil, there are people using Passat B5 1.8T transmission...It fits perfectly with AP engine (EA827), you just have to build a second transmission bracket and make some changes on the gear change system...And this gearbox and CV joints can deal with 500PS "easily"


 I've been looking into the very same thing...


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## VictorArrabal (Dec 16, 2010)

It won't help too much because it's in Portuguese but the last post of the second page has some pics from a Saveiro, the car is newer than the Foxes but the engine/transmission mount is just the same.

http://www.hotcampinas.com/nuke/mod...pic&t=34645&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40

The images can give you an idea of how to fit this transmission on a Fox...

About the whole car, it has a 20V head, 2L engine with huge turbo and MegaSquirt fuel injection...This car was insane, but it was theft and now the owner is building another one with the same engine configuration but using Audi RS2 transmission (Yes it will be 4WD)

Just for you to see what a 4WD Gol can make:


1/8 mile run...racing on M/T Street Dot tires


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

OMG... that ECU wiring to MS wiring adapter... *WANT*


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

dang... looking through the pics, I have decided... if I were to win the lottery, I'm packing up the Dasher and sending it to Brazil for a "under-hood make over"


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

Updates opcorn:


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## Hollagraphik (Nov 9, 2005)

Bump


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Sorry guys, once it got too cold for the track to be open the Fox was down the priority list. But now that the weather has turned progress will begin and again with updates to follow here soon,


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## Msep (May 14, 2011)

Nice Fox! o Gol G1 en sudamerica! .. 

The gol of the videos have a 16v Head, non 20v! 
and 6 speed 01e tranny.



VictorArrabal said:


> It won't help too much because it's in Portuguese but the last post of the second page has some pics from a Saveiro, the car is newer than the Foxes but the engine/transmission mount is just the same.
> 
> http://www.hotcampinas.com/nuke/mod...pic&t=34645&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=40
> 
> ...


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## Msep (May 14, 2011)

I build a Saveiro G1 ( Fox) whit Quattro tranny.. 2.0 ABA Turbo engine..


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

BFI... you need one of these


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Ok, so I admit it has been some time but shop business has been way up the past few months. But there is an update today. The USRT AEG 2.0 8v mani was modified today for the Fox fitment:










As well we made some 1" subframe spacers to drop the subframe both for intake clearance as well as weight transfer.

Next up is the manual brake set up and turbo and dp....


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Next up is the manual brake set up and turbo and dp....


what am i not understanding ? why would you want to go down in brake preformance with all this power you are adding?


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Banned wagon said:


> what am i not understanding ? why would you want to go down in brake preformance with all this power you are adding?



Less weight, and it's a drag car - plenty of run-off for braking.

My manual brakes have the same stopping power as before, you just need a stronger leg to get the same effect in the same time.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

Oh okay thanks for explaining it to me. How much weight do you save? Also must free up a bunch of room under the hood too? I not sure I ever saw the pictures of a manual brake set up.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Banned wagon said:


> Oh okay thanks for explaining it to me. How much weight do you save? Also must free up a bunch of room under the hood too? I not sure I ever saw the pictures of a manual brake set up.


Not huge weight savings, maybe a few pounds, but there's little to no down side and the extra space a nice side effect. It could be done in a lighter method than I used, but I personally did it for looks.

I posted a photo in this thread on the page before, here's a quick thread about my setup that went off topic as usual :laugh:


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## 90quattrocoupe (Feb 7, 2002)

I am old enough, that when I hear mechanical brakes, I think of cables, like the early bugs. Here you mean no booster. I did that on a Datsun 620 truck, in order to have room for the SSS intake.

Greg W.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Well with all the shows, shop growth, etc it has been some time since we have been able to put time in on the Fox, but no longer!

The manual brake set up we made up for the car, both for weight and intake clearance:











And got the turbo plumbing laid out:



















Had to order a few couplers and T-bolt clamps to finish it all up.

Also got the downpipe welded up, 2.5" straight pipe with a side exit, and the fuel system plumbed up with the SPA rising rate FPR. Hope to have it up and running again by the end of next week


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

niiiice... want to see some more detail!


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## efritsch (Aug 21, 2002)

That looks purdy! I want to see it run!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

nice looks bitchn maybe if you get it done we could have a shake down bet i win :laugh:


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

that plumbing looks amazing - and its true about their growth. I was trying to get engine mounts and there was quite a wait on them since they've been selling like hotcakes at waterfest and whatever. went VF instead. things must be hectic down there.


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## sidneydourado (Aug 12, 2011)

Look these cars 
http://www.dragsterbrasil.com/classificados/carros/carros.htm

Special this one:


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## InfernoFox (Apr 2, 2008)

Are you guys going to run an intercooler? Everything's going to get ridiculously hot being that close to the turbo...


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

looks nice but what kind of budget did you have or how deep were your pockets cause my fox is done by pay check to pay check:thumbup:


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## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

the foxers grow restless, have you compassion bfi.


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## InfernoFox (Apr 2, 2008)

Does anyone else notice the non-intercooled setup?


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

Yay for progress! Looks nice. 

Turbo cars can be built for a fairly low budget. Mine was about $700, intercooled, but there was much scrounging.


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## alaincopter (Oct 2, 2007)

Nice work, I am excited to see this thing finished! Do you really plan on running no intercooler though? Or will you add one later? I ran mine without an intercooler for a long time (consequence of building it paycheck to paycheck also :thumbup: turbofox), the difference after I added one was like night and day. With the amount of work and parts invested in the BFI Fox, it only makes sense to intercool it!


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

To address some of the questions, no there is no IC for this stage of the build. This is no longer a street driven car and at this power level and set up an IC wouldnt be a real benefit. Same as to the turbo plumbing, in a street driven car, yes it would get very hot very fast.

Also this 'new' set up is running a small SPA turbo and low boost, all of this on the stock Digi. And this is just another step to the final build. We have already broken the original trans with stock power and street tires. The steps we are taking to the final build up is to hopefully address 1, or 2, issues at a time to be able to fix them and move on. We could have gone striaght with a built ABA and big turbo on a MK3 harness, but the durability of the 'rest' of the car's parts would sure not be up to the challange.

Other less obvious progress has been lowering the subframe an 1", both for weight transfer and hood cleance. As well have swapped out the springs front and rear. Fronts went to both shorter and higher rate of the original set up. Rears stayed the same height but we double the rate.


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## InfernoFox (Apr 2, 2008)

Sorry, didn't specify on an intercooled setup. I was thinkin more along "water air intercooler". I can't think of the specific name.

Also, have you looked into cryo-freezing some parts? I was going to try that with my trans setup when I start my Fox build.

One more question. Are the springs that you installed in the front custom? If not, where can I purchase these springs?


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## alaincopter (Oct 2, 2007)

Please don't use the transmission failure you had as any sort of reference for how strong the original transmission is. The Fox transmission, as much of the rest of the car, is way more than over-engineered for the maximum power the BX chassis came with (120hp on the Gol GTi).

My transmission kept going strong after many thousand km's running 1 bar on a big biagio .50, even with a ceramic clutch, limited slip differential and really low tire pressure. And no I was not going easy on it. Trust me, it can take all sorts of abuse especially if you are running a small turbo with low boost.

opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

InfernoFox said:


> Sorry, didn't specify on an intercooled setup. I was thinkin more along "water air intercooler". I can't think of the specific name.
> 
> Also, have you looked into cryo-freezing some parts? I was going to try that with my trans setup when I start my Fox build.
> 
> One more question. Are the springs that you installed in the front custom? If not, where can I purchase these springs?



As I mentioned at this boost level and power level, any type of IC would be wasted effort. The car will run for a few mins at a time during the racing day.

The springs, and suspension set up for that matter, are a custom coilover set up we put together specifically for the car. It uses 5" sleeves in the front with 375lb 2.5" springs and 7" sleeves in the back with 550lb 1 7/8" springs.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

alaincopter said:


> Please don't use the transmission failure you had as any sort of reference for how strong the original transmission is. The Fox transmission, as much of the rest of the car, is way more than over-engineered for the maximum power the BX chassis came with (120hp on the Gol GTi).
> 
> My transmission kept going strong after many thousand km's running 1 bar on a big biagio .50, even with a ceramic clutch, limited slip differential and really low tire pressure. And no I was not going easy on it. Trust me, it can take all sorts of abuse especially if you are running a small turbo with low boost.
> 
> opcorn:


I am basing my comments on the experience with this car so far, and our driver who routinely wins every reaction time and beats most cars to 60ft, even those with 2-3x the power or more. Add to that a small turbo, and it will spool off idle and make a torque spike like a k04'd MK4, and I dont hold much hope for any stock trans but we will see.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Oh yeah, it runs....again


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## efritsch (Aug 21, 2002)

Post some video of that!!! We wanna see!!

Question about your brake setup. Did you simply build a spacer to replace the booster or did you shorten the rod as well and move the master closer to the firewall?


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

It runs as in we started it, havent had time to mess with it beyond that yet.

As for the brake set up, it is quite a bit shorter than stock and we made up a new shorter rod to go along with it.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

efritsch said:


> Post some video of that!!! We wanna see!!


Well here you go then!



Still need to finish up a few things, like weld in the 02 bung and a flange for the BOV. But the fact that it idles great and takes throttle looks good so far


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## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

It looks good! Should be a fun car.:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Got the roll cage kit in today, and hope to do some tuning with the turbo next week to get it back out to the track.


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## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Updates? Any?


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Not alot as of yet. With our 10th yr Octoberfest this weekend been pretty hecktic around here. However we are swapping out the stock airmassmeter for the BWM big 6 version. Need to tweek the main hoop for the roll bar to fit like we want it, then weld the cage in. Finally got the new rubber, 225/50/15 BFG Drag radials which will be going on a pair of 15x7 4x100 BBS Bugatti wheels up front.


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## cabriosnap (Apr 24, 2009)

this fox is sweet:thumbup: watchin this fosho


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## Hollagraphik (Nov 9, 2005)

Updates please?


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## westcoastwhips (Feb 19, 2004)

Hollagraphik said:


> Updates please?


Yup. Any updates?! Killer build.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

Well its been some time since any updates but we have been very busy this summer with shows and business. Now that it has slowed down we have gotten back to work on the ole Fox.

We swapped out the Digi2 for a Rado Digi1 set up and re worked a few other things in the bay, its current set up:










Also finished up the cage then stripped the sound deadening on the floor and repaint all of it:



















Next sunday that the weather cooperates we will hit the track again, they are open every sunday the temp is above 55*


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## denver_fox (Oct 15, 2011)

I was perusing your guys site the other day and was wondering what happened to the project fox.
Does it run better on boost now that it's Digi1?

Diggin the roll-cage.:thumbup:


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

this thing looks like fun.


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## [email protected] (Mar 3, 2008)

denver_fox said:


> I was perusing your guys site the other day and was wondering what happened to the project fox.
> Does it run better on boost now that it's Digi1?
> 
> Diggin the roll-cage.:thumbup:



Yes, really the Digi2 was just to see how it would run Digi1 works much better. We are currently waiting on a custom chip from BahnBrenner for the ECU but it is running well and easily making 15psi.

The cage is based on a S&W kit, basically we used their main hoop but did the rest of the cage layout ourselves. We also added an adj seat back brace.


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## syntax (Oct 26, 2010)

any updates?


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## fvtec (Aug 17, 2005)

Can I get more info on ur manual brake set up?


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