# Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again.



## EvolutionKills (Sep 24, 2009)

I've looked all over and I've tried to find more specific information and pick the brains of the hand-full of mechanics I know (I work at a Honda dealership, so most of their advice is "buy a Honda" which does me little good







), but I'm still having the same problem. So please forgive me if this has already been posted somewhere and I missed it.

Thing is, I have a 1999 New Beetle with the 2.0L in-line 4 with a manual transmission. My step father bought is new, and he had it until I bought it off of him a little less than a year ago. Just about 114,000 miles on it having spent 9 years commuting from Pittsburgh to the suburbs north of the city. Haven't had any trouble with it until a week ago.

I was driving to class (half hour on Route 99, from 25 to 55mph, 20 minutes at home, then another 10 minutes in city/suburb traffic), when the car stalled on me and wouldn't start up again. Long story short, this happened a few times. After driving around for about half an hour and after the engined had warmed up (but not over-heated, or at least the idiot light never came on), the engine would stall/quite while idling (usually while stopped, but also while taking a turn slowly). After the car had sit for about an hour, it would start right back up again, good as new.

Well, the third time this happened, it was right in front of a used car dealership that just happened to have a VW trained tech on hand. They had said it was the ignition coil, and it seemed logical. After it was replaced there (about an hour later), car ran fine again. Course, later that week is stalled out again. At this point, after asking around and doing some research, I thought that it was either a bad ignition coil or (after talking with a friend of a friend that owns a VW shop) to check and replace the water pump. I wasn't sure of the car's total service record, so I replaced the serpentine/timing belts, water pump, and fresh G11 coolant. Once again, car ran great for about half an hour, then stalled while I had it idling in the driveway.

This time, I took it back to the dealership that replaced the ignition coil to have them check the coil and warranty it out if it was bad. This time they idled the engine till it quite, than ran a diagnostic. It spit up a few errors. One was 'P0324' for a Knock Control System Error. We had got this before when we took it up to an Autozone when the check engine light came up after the first stall. Consensus was that the engine stalling tripped the knock sensor. Regardless, we're pretty sure that it wouldn't cause the engine to quite or prevent it from starting up again once it had. We looked at it and it seemed to be fine, connectors all looked clean and erosion free.

The other new errors where 'P0321' Ignition/Distributor Engine Speed Input Circuit Range/Performance and 'P0322' Ignition/Distribution Engine Speed Inpuit Circuit No Signal. I have a copy of the diagnostic printout, and for both of those errors the corrective action listed is 'check engine speed (RPM) sensor -G28-'. This was new, and I've yet to have time to try running it out to an Autozone and let it stall and test it to confirm.

It's my understanding that this 'Engine Speed Sensor G28' is also more commonly known as a 'Crankshaft Position Sensor'. And they go for around $80 on average from what I can find.

Is it possible for this to be heat sensitive? How often/common is it for them to fail? Would this sensor failing stop the engine from starting again (after it has stalled, and presumably tripped it that error), or cause it to actual shut off as I've described? 

Once again, I apologize if this is overly wordy or has already been cover before. But I'm just about at my wit's end. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again. (EvolutionKills)*

G28 if you read about it in your Bentley manual (get one if you don't have it), gives your specific readings in ohms. You take your multi-meter and measure the resistance cold. If the sensor is not within specs, it is bad.
It is a common replacement item.
http://www.bentleypublishers.c....html
Yes the sensor failing will prevent the engine from running. It will crank but won't run.
They fail warm or hot, during use obviously.
I would suggest you keep reading about problems with the NB.
At your mileage you should be nearing your second timing belt, always wise to replace the water pump with a metal impeller version.
Also suggest you look carefully at your oil dipstick funnel, turning yellow and its on borrowed time.
Coolant flanges turning brown? This indicates the plastic has been leached of its glass fibers. The black thermoplastic used by VW is PA66-GF30, Polyamide 66 (Nylon 66) with 30% long strand glass fibers.
New Beetles are the most common VW to overheat.
Why, as you pointed out the idiot light, no temp gauge is present.
These cars overheat for several reasons, female drivers (sorry but the fact is that all the overheated NBs I've serviced, were owned by female drivers of all ages). Failures due to damaged cooling fans, long overdue service (TB, WP, oil changes) and neglect.
A red warning light isn't enough for them to stop the car and call a tow truck, these women continued to drive till the car stopped.
This is when we got them in the shop.
Overheated and melted plastic everywhere, the stench of burnt oil looms for days.
I'm not bashing women, I think that VW should have included a temp gauge, not an idiot light. But then if it weren't for the idiot light, we wouldn't have job security.


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## EvolutionKills (Sep 24, 2009)

*Re: Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again. (Eric D)*

Thanks for the quick response.









Actually, I do have a Bentley manual (Service Manual: 1998 - 2002), but couldn't find anything in there about it, but I'll give it another go. It was a major help in replacing the timing belt and water pump. Which is good, as I needed all the help I could get, as it's an absolute pain to get in and work on the engine with the limited room and access in the Beetle frame. I did get a metal impeller water pump in there, even though the old one I pulled out only had a few dents in the plastic.

The part that really bug my father and I was that the car stalled when warm, but then worked fine after it cooled off. Which is weird, to say the least. If something goes bad because of heat, you'd expect it to stay cooked. At least, ignition coils (he says) are know to go bad with heat. What we weren't sure of was whether or not this sensor was also susceptible to thermal failure. I did some snooping of other forums and found that they can/do on other makes and models. I was curious to know if this could also happen or has happened to anybody else with a VW?

Please for give my ignorance, but what do you mean by...
"I would suggest you keep reading about problems with the NB"

By 'oil dipstick funnel', do you mean that long piece of plastic surrounding the dipstick that comes all the way up to the plastic engine cover? I'm pretty sure it was orange last time I looked at it, same as the dipstick handle.

Once again, thanks in advance.


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again. (EvolutionKills)*

G28 will fail warm or hot, and when the car cools it will work again briefly.
Replace it with a new Bosch unit, or aftermarket brands like VEMO.

_Quote, originally posted by *EvolutionKills* »_Thanks for the quick response.








Please for give my ignorance, but what do you mean by...
"I would suggest you keep reading about problems with the NB"


That basically means, that the NB has a bunch of issues.
While some are specific to the NB because of body shape, the same problems afflict the MKIV Golf and Jetta.
For example, the NB is prone to melting the wiring and plug for the headlights.
Also prone to melting the bulb socket of the taillights and the taillight.
NB third brake light is replaced as a unit, not the individual bulbs.
Airbag faults are common, especially in the seats.
Hood release handle can break, I've replaced the darn cable too.
Radiator core supports seem to loose the bolts at the bottom. Many came in with flopping core supports.
Exhaust manifolds can crack, they are brazed not welded. So the failure is at the brazed joint usually affecting #4 exhaust port.
Cats rattle.
O2 sensors fail.
MAF sensor fail.
Coolant temp sensor fail.
Fans fail.
Aux fuse box above the battery melts.
Window regulators fail.
Window switches fail.
Hatch and fuel lid switch fail.
Brake light switch fail.
Instrument clusters fail.
This is just a short list and I've left out other electrical items on the engine, in the cabin.
Troubleshooting is fun, but we see the same problems over and over again.











_Modified by Eric D at 5:34 PM 9-24-2009_


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## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again. (Eric D)*

have you check the fuel pump?
that would be my guess








idk about the mk4's but if you scan an mk3 vw with a generic scan tool, while the engine is off, the cam position code will always come up.
Try scanning it while its running, my guess is that code wont show up.
i highly doubt this is a major issue.
it can only be a few things.
start checking the basics, check for:
solid spark
fuel pressure at fuel rail.
Replace broken or failed parts as you go, starting from the cheapest http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EvolutionKills (Sep 24, 2009)

*Re: Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again. (Michael Cahill)*

First thing we checked was the fuel pump. Even after the engined stalled and wouldn't start up again, turning the ignition would still cause the pump to push fuel. So next up we tested the spark plugs. There was no spark when we tried cranking the ignition (spark plugs where fine), so that lead us to replace the ignition coil. Now however, it looks like that wasn't the problem. Rather, if the G28 sensor was bad then (in theory) the computer wouldn't let the ignition coil spark.

Likewise every time it has stalled, it;s been fine after sitting for an hour. Probably why I've never had a problem with it until now was that I can drive to work in 5 minutes, but the trip out to campus takes 30. So it might have been going bad for a while now, but only recently have I had cause to really drive anywhere more than 10 minutes (I live close to downtown Erie PA, everything is just that close).

When we took it to an Autozone to scan it, it came up just with the Knock sensor error. Of course, the engine hadn't stalled out at that point, and I drove it back home. Whenever it was idled until it stalled, then scanned while it was still too hot to start again, that's when it spit out the Engine Speed Sensor G28 error. 

So I'm just going to go ahead and replace it. From my understanding the sensor is located on the front of the engine block very close to the ignition coil, correct? It shouldn't take more than 5-10 minutes and an allen wrench? Is there anything else I should know about before buying a replacement part and installing? 

Thanks again for all of your help gentlemen.


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## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again. (EvolutionKills)*

allan wrench? I always thought the knock sensor was held on with a 13mm bolt.
Mk4's might be different though. (and yea, Its super easy to get at)


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## Eric D (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Engine quits/stalls and won't start up again. (independent77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *independent77* »_allan wrench? I always thought the knock sensor was held on with a 13mm bolt.
Mk4's might be different though. (and yea, Its super easy to get at)

Re-read what he wrote.
When he mentions allen wrench, its in regards to the G28 crank sensor.
Even the MkIVs use a 13mm bolt for the knock sensor.

Removing the old crank sensor may require you to twist it inside its hole. They become stubborn with age.








Just apply some oil on the o-ring and insert the new crank sensor.


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