# Has spark has fuel has air, wont start...



## TexHess (Jun 26, 2015)

Hey guys I’m new to the forum and new to this type of car, but I’m pretty mechanically inclined and I have been working on cars and motorcycles for most of my life. I’m not trying to say I’m some home taught master mechanic or anything, but I am familiar with engines and working on vehicles in general.

Anyway, here is the problem: I’m looking at getting a 2000 Audi TT Quatro with the 4 cyl turbo and 5 speed trans. It has about 121,000 miles on it. The car has been sitting and now it will crank but it won’t start. If I can get it to start, or get it close to starting without spending much money I’ll take it, but It barely even acts like it wants to start. No sputter or anything. I don’t know the service history of the car, but im sure the timing belt needs changed/adjusted. That being said, I personally have checked for spark, fuel, and air, and the car has all 3. This is how I checked for fuel and spark. Air was obviously a given haha.

Spark Test:
Pulled all 4 coil packs, stuck the plugs in them, set them on the head, had my ol’ lady crank the car: all plugs spark

Fuel Test:
Pulled the fuel rail with injectors as one unit, had the ol’ lady crank it: fuel sprayed out of the injectors.

Since I have fuel, spark, and the tach moves when cranking, can I rule out the crank position sensor? The check engine light comes on when the key is in the accessory position, so that should rule out the ECU correct? I don’t know if this matters, but the key I was using to start the car had the key fob broken off of it, and the battery that was in the car was not the correct one.

Now we tried to get the car started. I hooked up jumper cables to it (properly), started my truck (the vehicle that was jumping the TT) and cranked it a few times. The car seemed to crank pretty slow, but I figured it was just lack of power from the bat. No start no sputter. –waited a few minutes with the truck running-
I figured maybe it needed a little help so I sprayed some starter fluid in the intake manifold while cranking. No start no sputter. 

Figured maybe the junk battery in the car just wasn’t letting enough power get to the starter, so I pulled the battery out of my truck and dropped it in. I noticed the ground wire was very hot. Hot enough to where I could not maintain contact for more than a couple seconds or so.

I added some distilled water to the coolant reservoir because it was bone dry and tried again. No start no sputter. Im pretty sure the whole system is bone dry and I think this may be one of the problems. Are there any sensors in the cooling system that will keep the car from starting? But if that was the case, I would assume I wouldn’t get spark or fuel or either of the 2, but I did. Anyway, I don’t know this system very well, so maybe there is something else?

The car seemed to be cranking pretty slow at first, but it eventually sped up some. It seemed like there was enough cranking speed to start, but I don’t know for sure. Im thinking the starter is going bad given the slow crank and the excessive heat from the ground wire.
Ive heard of guys getting spark, but not getting enough spark and they had to change their ICM. This car has the ICM built into the coil pack correct? – If this is the case, is there any way I can check how well the coil pack is working with a multi-meter or something?

I don’t have any type of code scanner or a VAGcom, and I am extremely reluctant to spend any real money on this car since it isn’t even mine yet. Im just wondering if there is anything else that is a relatively simple fix or some component that I can verify as the problem that I haven’t checked yet. Im planning on going to try to get it started again later today if I can come up with a game plan.
Does anyone have any ideas about what the problem(s) are? Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!


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## MCPaudiTT (Nov 26, 2006)

Certainly make sure it is full of coolant, and you didn't mention oil - is there any or is if full of sludge?

Why was it no longer being driven? At 121k miles, it is a VERY likely candidate to have had a timing belt issue, so maybe the valves/head is destroyed to the point you get no compression? Have you tried a compression test? I take it the plugs all looked "whole" when you removed them (that would be a sign the head could be OK btw, when the belt breaks it normally wipes out the valves which wipe out the plugs).

Will it be easy to fix? That's impossible to say except in hindsight. Any one that says "sure, it will be a piece of cake" is full of crap so I don't know what kind of response you are expecting. It could well be it just needs a tune up (and CERTAINLY a new timing belt) and it could be good to go. Or maybe the head is gone and there is a hole in the block and you are sitting on a pile of crap...


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Coolant system won't affect cranking/starting. First thing is first, pop off the timing belt cover and verify crank to cam timing is set properly. Next thing to do would be put a compression tester on it to see if the valves are bent. If those are good, then you're going to need to scan the car for OBD codes via VAG COM or a generic scanner. Since you seem to be fine with buying a project and will probably move on to another if you don't buy this, you should invest all of $25 to buy the $5 Torque app for Android if you have a compatible phone and a $20 blue tooth OBD dongle. This would be an inexpensive way to read the codes without having to take the car to someone else, and it works on any OBD2 car. Good luck!


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## TexHess (Jun 26, 2015)

i know its got at least a quart because i saw him put it in there. he said it was a quart low so i took his word for it. he parked it because he got another vehicle and lost interest i guess.

i just talked to the guy on the phone and he said that the belt was replaced about a year ago. supposedly in its first year of storage he would go out and take it for a spin every 3 months or so. then one day it would not start. he saw the timing belt was looking pretty rough, so he replaced it.

if the valves were wiped out wouldnt i be able to hear some funky noise coming from the head when i was cranking it? 

@20vmaster
i didnt even think about a phone app. Good call, ill have to pick that up.


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## TexHess (Jun 26, 2015)

i know its difficult to diagnose with out being there/ using all the available equipment, but i was just thinking there might be some faulty sensor i overlooked. or maybe the coil packs are not working as well as they need to be and not providing enough power for a sufficient spark.


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

TexHess said:


> I don’t know if this matters, but the key I was using to start the car had the key fob broken off of it, and the battery that was in the car was not the correct one.


This could matter.... the transponder is in the upper portion of the 2-piece key fob. Were you just using the metal blade?


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## TexHess (Jun 26, 2015)

yes it was just the metal blade. if the key fob is not present, what exactly does it affect? spark, fuel, timing, something else?


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## Silver TT (Jan 26, 2015)

I believe the immobilizer will cut power to the ignition... Here are your options:
1) Without a transponder you will need to flash the ECU with an IMMO defeat file. You will need to make a bench harness and put the ECU in bootmode. Directions and software are on NEFMOTO. 
2) Order a new transponder off of ebay and program it with vagcom. You will need the SKC.

No guarantee that's going to fix the problem though. The guy could very well be hiding something else.


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## TexHess (Jun 26, 2015)

ahh that doesnt sound very bueno. i hope he has the key fob. is it 100% that this car has an immobilizer in it. i believe i have read that it may not have one. also, if it cut power to the ignition wouldnt that eliminate the ability to produce spark? the reason im not willing to put much into this car right now is because we are discussing a trade. my working motorcycle for his TT. if the car was mine already it would be a different story, but i dont want to put a lot of effort/money time into this car to get it going since my vehicle is already in working condition.


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## miamisam (Apr 22, 2015)

It would really be sad if you fixed the damn thing for him, then he decided not to trade. 
Let him fix it, then you can talk a deal...


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Even without the fob, it'll still crank and run for a few seconds before the Immobilizer kills it.


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

20v master said:


> Even without the fob, it'll still crank and run for a few seconds before the Immobilizer kills it.


+1 

You will need this to drive anywhere, but u can start the car momentarily with wrong key (no rfid from the key fob)


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

You have fuel. You have spark. But you have NOT determined that you have compression. That was mentioned in the very first reply. Don't keep guessing. Slap a compression gauge on that thing and check it.

If you have good compression. Put a FRESH set of plugs in before attempting to start and fix that ground wire..


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

Chickenman35 said:


> You have fuel. You have spark. But you have NOT determined that you have compression. That was mentioned in the very first reply. Don't keep guessing. Slap a compression gauge on that thing and check it.
> 
> If you have good compression. Put a FRESH set of plugs in before attempting to start and fix that ground wire..


x2


OP did you check that the timing belt is intact?


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

A faulty crank position sensor will cause these symptoms but you'll want to scan for codes to see if that pops up... wonder why the coolant was bone dry - are there any oil or coolant puddles under the car?

The owner said they replaced the timing belt but who knows if they installed it right - better check timing and compression as mentioned.


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## valet (Apr 21, 2002)

I picked up a 01 tt 180hp q back in november for pretty cheap - the problem was that the previous owner swapped out the old motor because his sister cooked the motor on the old one. He ended up swapping a newer motor into the car and redid the clutch and timing belt and transmission fluid. He then tried to start the car to no avail... long story short, I bought it off of him for very cheap and figured, at worst, I could swap a new motor in. Turns out that the PO installed the timing belt 180 degrees or so out of phase so that the car, while having, fuel, spark, and air, was not turning over - he was missing the allusive 4th dimension (timing). Lucky for me, his muck-up did not cause contact between valves and pistons, and I was able to resurrect the car. I have access to vcds but his problem was so pervasive that it did not find any issues with the car save for one: he was so flustered that he installed a different ECU in the car with immobilizer defeat and then mixed up the keys between the 2 different ECUs (VCDS helped me on that one).

tl;dr: your timing may be off...

p.s. I originally thought it was the CPS, but swapping the one on the car with a known working unit yielded the same result


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