# Which Standalone Should I Get?



## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

As the title states I am looking at moving from a c2 stage 4 tune into standalone and would like some opinions. I am looking at one of the following 034, Lugtronic, and F.A.S.T. efi. Im not scared of the wiring or anything else i just dont have any experience with standalone tuning systems. Heres the specs on the car.
97 gti vr6t
9:1 je's 
bored to 3.0L
Manley rods 
arp main and head studs. 
micro polished crank
coated rod bearings
big valve head with ferrea valve springs and valves up their
juan8595 short runner
dsr 256 cams
southbend clutch (cant remember which one but it was the biggest single disk from them)
10lb autotech flywheel
peloquin
Devils own water meth injection
Air to water intercooler setup (im switching to the mustang cobra pumps and possibley a bigger intercooler)
walbro pump( going to add a bosch044 as well or just remove the walbro all together) 
currently has the c2 stage 4 tune for 60# injectors but i believe i will bump up to the id 1000cc injetors (maybe bigger i dunno yet). 
I want to be able to hit the drag strip, but also be able to daily drive it if i choose, i would probly be looking for an e85 tune among maybe a race gas tune and pump tune. If possible maybe have the standalone control the water meth injection. Also something with launch control. If im leaving anything out it may be in my build thread and their is a link to that in my thread. If you have some advise on standalone or a preference please tell me why. Also if their is any other advice i am all ears. Thanks
Also im not sure if i go with the larger injectors if i will need to run different fuel line or a different rail?
I could also post this in the standalone forum but i figured i would throw it up in here first



_Modified by Dubstuning at 4:42 PM 10-29-2009_


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## scarboroughdub (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: Which Standalone Should I Get? (Dubstuning)*

The new haltech Platinum Sport 2000 is a great unit, i have installed and tuned a couple and at this point i like it the best.


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *scarboroughdub* »_The new haltech Platinum Sport 2000 is a great unit, i have installed and tuned a couple and at this point i like it the best.


I guess looking at it the price points arent to far off the others, any reason why you prefer it and have you used the others i listed? My other question is what options do some bring that others dont. IE do they all have things like boost by gear or launch control etc....


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Which Standalone Should I Get? (Dubstuning)*

figure out who's going to tune it, and then buy which ever is their preference.


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

If i went with the only local guy he uses F.A.S.T. efi so i wouldnt have any other options unless i cart the car a ways away which may be an option


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Dubstuning)*

I could provide you with an ecu with a proven 600+ whp setup, with the ID injectors you plan to run, and remote tuning support.


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## Bucknasty! (May 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_I could provide you with an ecu with a proven 600+ whp setup, with the ID injectors you plan to run, and remote tuning support.


Watch out:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4627762


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## buddylove (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Bucknasty!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bucknasty!* »_
Watch out:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4627762

Steer clear http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Twelvizm (Apr 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_I could provide you with an ecu with a proven 600+ whp setup, with the ID injectors you plan to run, and remote tuning support.

Yeah, how many months would it take for you to make it? Maybe you could throw in a dozen or so emails full of stalling tactics while you spend the money?


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## Bucknasty! (May 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Twelvizm* »_
Yeah, how many months would it take for you to make it? Maybe you could throw in a dozen or so emails full of stalling tactics while you spend the money?


You just sold me the product http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EK20 (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Bucknasty!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bucknasty!* »_You just sold me the product http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Me too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Husky McLovin (Apr 1, 2009)

*FV-QR*

well maybe some people like getting jacked around for a year, and maybe never see the said product. But maybe just saying that they bought it is just as good or better then actually ever seeing it.


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## SenorBrandon (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (EK20)*

i love the PNW!


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: Which Standalone Should I Get? (Dubstuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubstuning* »_i would probly be looking for an e85 tune among maybe a race gas tune and pump tune. 

Can you get hold of the GM Ethanol sensor over there at a good price? It's p/n - 12570260.
We have 100s of VRTs running DTA, Emerald, Motec, Omex etc etc here in Europe.
If E85 interests you, the DTA S80 with that GM ethanol sensor has built in compensations for any mix of gas and ethanol up to and including 100% ethanol. No need to switch maps, it does it all for you








There are many. many standalones out there but as someone else said, choose the one that has the best local knowledge and support.


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## ArtieLange (Sep 14, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevhayward* »_
There are many. many standalones out there but as someone else said, choose the one that has the best local knowledge and support.



Most importantly, one that shows up after you pay for it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

Ok guys we get the point - OR and WA doesnt like Kevin Black - give it a rest


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## trip permit (Mar 19, 2008)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_Ok guys we get the point - OR and WA doesnt like Kevin Black - give it a rest


Customers USUALLY like receiving products after paying a lot of money for it.. Especially after 5 months.. I guess if WA and OR people "don't like him" we are smarter than the rest of you for getting it?


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## pubahs (Apr 2, 2002)

You've made your point - we don't need to keep hearing it. If the OP wants to go with lugnuts then I am sure he will consider your post(s)
I wouldn't quite appoint yourselves smarter than the rest though. Its pretty clear why you have 16493 posts (27.86 posts per day on average)


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## trip permit (Mar 19, 2008)

*Re: (pubahs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pubahs* »_You've made your point - we don't need to keep hearing it. If the OP wants to go with lugnuts then I am sure he will consider your post(s)
I wouldn't quite appoint yourselves smarter than the rest though. Its pretty clear why you have 16493 posts (27.86 posts per day on average)


Oh and why is this? Care to explain your assumptions? 
BTW, I must be really dumb because this is my 2nd user name..









And I hope he does consider OUR posts, because he is getting a true review about a company. Maybe the company will go in the right direction with this feedback and not like a typical hot headed sponsor of the tex.


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (trip permit)*

- (I spoke to "meister" last night.
- All, I have not yet fulfilled my obligation to "meister" so that explains the posts. I have 10 reasons, and yes, 8 of them are just excuses.
- If you look deeper, you will find that everybody gets their products from me. 
- I have been late on some orders, and yes, a couple have been unacceptably late.
- I know there is much room for improvement.
- Also, This sale does not involve "ForceFed" at all, so please don't think less of them for my actions.
- I appreciate the fact that you guys are sticking up for your friend, but after the first posts the people will get the idea and search for themselves. Don't throw me under the bus just yet. I do have some satisfied customers in the PNW.
Kevin Black


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## GLImax (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (lugnuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lugnuts* »_- (I spoke to "meister" last night.
- All, I have not yet fulfilled my obligation to "meister" so that explains the posts. I have 10 reasons, and yes, 8 of them are just excuses.
- If you look deeper, you will find that everybody gets their products from me. 
- I have been late on some orders, and yes, a couple have been unacceptably late.
- I know there is much room for improvement.
- Also, This sale does not involve "ForceFed" at all, so please don't think less of them for my actions.
- I appreciate the fact that you guys are sticking up for your friend, but after the first posts the people will get the idea and search for themselves. Don't throw me under the bus just yet. I do have some satisfied customers in the PNW.
Kevin Black

You sound like a stand-up guy who has the potential to make some great products. Why waste that? Five months is more that enough to accomplish most any project unless you are building a massive construction. So my friend, my words of wisdom to you are: GET YOUR ASS IN GEAR! If you have no concern for your customers, you will soon learn that they will have no concern for you.
I hope you learn from this and change your business practices. This is completely unacceptable, whether you are building something amazing or not. At the very least be honest with your customers and tell them it will take an extended period of time till the product is finished.
That is all. GL to you all.


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevhayward* »_
Can you get hold of the GM Ethanol sensor over there at a good price? It's p/n - 12570260.
We have 100s of VRTs running DTA, Emerald, Motec, Omex etc etc here in Europe.
If E85 interests you, the DTA S80 with that GM ethanol sensor has built in compensations for any mix of gas and ethanol up to and including 100% ethanol. No need to switch maps, it does it all for you








There are many. many standalones out there but as someone else said, choose the one that has the best local knowledge and support.



Im sure i could get the ethanol sensor a couple different places if needed, how is the ethanol sensor typically wired up? Also thanks for one of few posts not knocking Kevin Black and lugtronic. I already saw the thread meister posted but i was hoping that this would be contained in his thread. I do alot of checking before i go diving into something and it seems as though their are many people happy with lugtronic just as well as all the others but their seems to be people dissatisfied with each company for whatever reasons.


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## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

I got mine Lugtronic stage 2 vr6 PNP ecu on time like he said 3-4 weeks in the begining of the summer
god i love it 
worth the wait


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## Rlyeezz2 (Mar 29, 2003)

*Re: (obd2vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *obd2vr6* »_I got mine Lugtronic stage 2 vr6 PNP ecu on time like he said 3-4 weeks in the begining of the summer
god i love it 
worth the wait 

Good to hear


_Modified by Rlyeezz2 at 3:17 PM 10-30-2009_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Which Standalone Should I Get? (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_figure out who's going to tune it, and then buy which ever is their preference.

what he said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
unless youre willing to accept taking on learning how to do it yourself


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## Ted Brogan (Dec 13, 2005)

*Re: (trip permit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trip permit* »_

he is getting a true review about a company. 

True review lol please. Id hardly consider one douche posting in every possible forum and post about one sour business transaction a true review. If everyone on vortex that had a transaction not go 100% as planned there would not be one supplier left on this forum lol. Ive delt with Kevin on several occasions dating back to 2003 and he has always been helpful and never once wanted to be compensated for his time and efforts. I think that alone puts his business above 95% of the ones out there. 
Grow up and stop attempting to trash someones name who has never done anything but good for the VW scene. Whats going to be awesome is when one of you needs his help with something i hope he remembers every nutsack that had input on this. Ive seen it time and time again first hand its a beautiful thing


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I pmed kevin and im not the least bit hesitant about doing business with him and i know he has tuned some fast cars. ive also talked with someone about an 034 setup that is ready to go plug and play so im still on the ropes as to which one of the two i will go with. I really like the idea of having remote tuning assistance from kevin and he sells the injectors i was thinking about running anyways. 
Edit: im also more than willing to throw my self head first in and accept learning how myself. 


_Modified by Dubstuning at 6:15 PM 10-30-2009_


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## Bucknasty! (May 6, 2009)

*FV-QR*

I wish I was good with words like Kevin, I could probably sell an airplane or two that I don't own.


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Bucknasty!)*

I don't have Lugtronic but I do have an Autronic system that Kevin has provided support for. I am not interested in the details of the dispute that has made it into this thread but for my part Kevin has been a great guy who was always more than happy to share his knowledge and expertise. I am sure Kevin is learning from this experience and will come back better than ever.
The specs of the Lugtronic are impressive for the price. I wouldn't hesitate to do business with him.


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (vfarren)*

go with vems, if you need support kevin is your man.


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (bdcoombs)*

I have 034EFI and love it, great support from 034. Awesome people who have developed one of the best standalone systems available.
the next update (comming soon) will have some realy cool features like gear based closed loop boost control and Extremely advanced launch and rev-limiting control system.


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_figure out who's going to tune it, and then buy which ever is their preference.

I dont agree, unless you have a really good relationship with a certain tuner who will give you discounts on parts and tuning.
Any good tuner should have no problem figuring out how to tune (almost) any standalone. Get one that has good support from the manufacturer and (or) best cost to feature ratio.


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## vanilla gorilla (Jul 7, 2004)

i would say 50% of the people that are commenting in this thread are never going to go standalone anyway.
Why throw $.02 in. The OP can read the review for himself. 
I have talked to Kevin in the past and he knows his ****. I would not hesitate to work with him in the near future.


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I appreciate the input so far and its either go with a standalone system kevin sells or 034. I am selling a set of wheels, and an exhaust i have in the next week to a buddy on a different forum after that i will be purchasing. Its looking more like 034 as i found a good deal on a plug and play harness with the 034IIc ecu that makes it comparable to the cost from kevin.


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (obd2vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *obd2vr6* »_I got mine Lugtronic stage 2 vr6 PNP ecu on time like he said 3-4 weeks in the begining of the summer
god i love it 
worth the wait 

Same here.
My car is fast as hell and its not even tuned!


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Dubstuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubstuning* »_Im sure i could get the ethanol sensor a couple different places if needed, how is the ethanol sensor typically wired up? Also thanks for one of few posts not knocking Kevin Black and lugtronic. I already saw the thread meister posted but i was hoping that this would be contained in his thread. I do alot of checking before i go diving into something and it seems as though their are many people happy with lugtronic just as well as all the others but their seems to be people dissatisfied with each company for whatever reasons. 

I wish I could tell you, but due to the cost and rarity of that part, I've not been able to source one and try it!! As it constantly monitors the gas to E85 ratio, I guess a sensible place to put it would be in the fuel tank and then you hook it up to one of the aux inputs on the standalone. It will then adjust the fuelling automatically.
E85 needs to run a lot richer to achieve the same burn strength of gas, but the pay off is cheaper pump price, higher octane and more power http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
To run 100% ethanol you need to add 65% or more fuel, so obviously you need some big injectors and ones which don't wreck the idle and part throttle in the process. For that I recommend Bosch EV14 1000cc.
I don't know Mr Black but I do know he is a very talented guy and he will even map ECUs he doesn't like very much, such as the DTA








Just to touch on the non communication issue in this thread, as a customer from the UK, I buy a lot of parts from the US and I find nearly every single VW tuner over there either takes ages to reply to emails, doesn't reply at all and very few of them actually answer the phone.
There are obviously a few exceptions and these guys get my continued custom http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Obviously smaller outfits don't have the resources to man a reception and they go to SEMA, and waterfest etc to punt their wares, but as with everything in life, you get out of it what you put in. How many sales have the big boys lost through lack of communication? $1000s worth I'd wager!
Anyway, enough of that! Good luck with your standalone. Get it mapped by Mr Black if you're near to him and enjoy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (kevhayward)*

Alot of the OEM's are ditching the flex sensors due to them being unreliable. They're just using fuel trims to deal with the varying ethanol content. However, there's some good info on the GM ethanol sensor on the Megasquirt site, as MS2 supports true flex fuel.


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

E85 is still a very new thing here in the UK. Only 3 or 4 filling stations nationally sell the stuff! I'm lucky enough to be 8 miles from one and I really want to try it, but supplies are too patchy.
If / when E85 becomes more mainstream globally, we should see some improvements in the sensor technology!


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Bucknasty!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bucknasty!* »_
Watch out:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4627762


**** if u dont know anything.......


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## ramek (May 1, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (dubbinmk2)*

ive bought a lugtronic ecu from kevin and has been very very helpfull in every way, every nice man and deff knows what he doing , just wish he could come to cyprus and tune my car to


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *05JettaGLXVR6* »_
Same here.
My car is fast as hell and its not even tuned!


must be a fluke, there is no way you can do this with out 034efi


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_
must be a fluke, there is no way you can do this with out 034efi

HA


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## Dubstuning (Nov 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Gonna go through kevin i believe


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