# Burning Oil "Within Normal Limits" Please Advise.



## ktgirlNtn (Jul 23, 2010)

I'm now in a love-hate relationship with my Eos, it's burning a lot of oil, and ran completely and dangerously dry on a recent mountain roadtrip. 
After the "Oil Consumption test" at dealer, they found it to be within normal limits, but realllllly? Should I expect it to use 5 quarts in 6 months? It's got 47000 miles now and I don't want to run out of warrantee, but they won't do anything, Please Advise! Sadly considering to trade it in for a trusty Honda. :screwy:


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

Unfortunately this is an ongoing concern with some VW engines. It has been discussed here, and on the other forums, in the past. 

VW's "official" accepted normal oil consumption is something ridiculous like 1 qt in 1000 miles, if I remember correctly. 

Everyone agrees it is an unreasonable standard, but as far as I know VW has not made any effort to help concerned owners unless consumption exceeds the limit, nor shown a willingness to adopt a more reasonable consumption rate. 

Hopefully some of our members who have dealt with the issue will chime in and provide you with some advice born from experience. 

Kevin 

*NOTE:* There is a Technical Bulletin on this in the TB thread. The official "accepted" consumption is 0.5 qt in 600 miles or 0.5 litre in 1000 km.


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## noshtzy (May 21, 2009)

From what I can recall this is expected on the pre-MY09 Eos. People who are driving MY09 Eos and later seem to not be having this experience, myself included ('09 Eos Lux). The difference seems to be an updated 2.0T engine, noticeably different down to the engine mounts. 

This observation is based on what I've heard in the past and not direct evidence except for the fact that I've got 19000 miles on my '09 and I've never had to add any oil into it save for the 10000-mile service. 20000-mile service is coming up soon and no complaints so far.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

Go in and have an oil consumption test at your local dealer. If its fails they will put new rings in your engine.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

5 quarts in 6 months doesn't mean a whole lot. How many miles is that? I had new rings installed in my 07 a few months back. I was burning a quart in about 900 miles toward the end which was getting costly at $7/quart every other fill up! It was an on going battle with the dealer for this issue. I first noticed increased consumption after the first 5,000 mile oil change but back then it was only a quart per 2500 miles or so. Still a lot but was acceptable to me. It gradually increased to a quart per 1200 miles and I decided to complain to my dealer. They performed an "oil consumption test" which was for me to come back 4 times every 1000 miles so they can measure and add the proper amount of oil. In the end the dealer said, "yep it's burning a lot of oil but we have no idea what to do about it" Seriously!! I guess that was before the TB! And that was the last time I used that dealer. Fast forward to present, I was getting close to the end of my warranty so decided to use another dealer. They performed another oil consumption test but this time by weighing the oil. Still quite a few trips to the dealer which was getting old but they finally were convinced there was a problem with the engine and replaced the rings. My advice to you is to keep an eye on the level. You have to 60k to prove your case. You'll have to burn more than a quart per 1200 miles for them to do anything about it.


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## PaulZooms (Dec 16, 2006)

*My '07 burns hardly any oil*

My '07 2.0 has only had 3 quarts added in 32.5K miles. The oil has been changed 6 times, so about once every other change has been my experience. It was probably down 0.5 quart at the time of the new change the other three cycles that did not require an intermediate fill . 

I wonder if the difference is how carefully the engine is handled during break-in? I followed the instructions precisely and have had a good result (so far, knock wood). Then again, maybe I am just one of the lucky ones who got a "good one".


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

This appears to be a hit or miss issue with the BPY engine like most of the other common problems with the car; cam follower, AC compressor, DSG. I haven't had those issues, yet. But I did get an extended warranty because of them. And I don't think engine break-in has anything to so with it. I too followed the owner's manual recommendation. There was a non-scientific survey over in the 2.0T engine forum for people with the oil consumption problem and how they broken in the engine but no correlation could be made. People that beat the crap out of the engine during break-in from people that babied the engine where reporting high oil consumption. 

There was a report from a VW tech, or a friend of one, over there about what was discovered after the engine tear-down. On that particular engine it was only cylinder in particular causing the problem and it's rings were installed with the gap lined up on all 3 rings. I suspect the problem is a bad engine build batch. Similar to the bad batch of DSG transmissions released in the 08 and 09 model years.


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## Dene (Jan 5, 2011)

I took my EOS in for some warranty work this morning. (cruise control wasn't working...they replaced the turn signal). Anyway...mentioned the oil issues of other EOS owners and tech acknowledged the problem. On my vehicle, they closed the breather valve which supposedly helps this. I'll monitor this. Has anyone else heard of this solution? 

BTW....5 days of ownership and I'm loving this car. Temp was 38 degrees but that didn't stop me from opening the sunroof, engaging the clever windscreen, and turn up the heat a bit. I love the glass roof!!


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

Main issue are rings in the car. They say there oblong instead of perfectly circular but thats normal for an engine. All engine bores are oblong and are designed that way. Comes down to the rings not sealing to these bores correctly.


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## mrcozy (Jun 7, 2007)

My persistence seems to be paying off. I've had an oil-burning issue as long as I've had the car (I think I noticed it around 10K). I was up to about 1qt/1200mi. The dealer did a consumption test (drain, weigh, drive 100mi, drain, weigh), and apparently it failed. Last I heard was that a VW tech had been out over the weekend, and was going to sign off on a ring job.

I only hope there isn't a good bit of consequential damage from the many, many miles I've put on it since (let's just say that it's a good thing I reported the problem early -- I have a 30mi commute, so I rack up the miles fast). I know that oil consumption can foul spark plugs, and isn't very healthy for the catalytic converter. Anything else I should be having them check?


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## Dene (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm at a quart every 800 miles. Thank God for Oil Can Henry's top off service. Anyway....my VW dealer is aware of it and I will be going through their oil consumption test soon.


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## mrcozy (Jun 7, 2007)

*0.75qt/1000mi => new rings*

Just an update on my particular case. VW measured the burn rate at 0.75 quarts per 1000 miles, or (as I find easier to grasp), about a quart every 1300 miles, well below VW's acceptable rate.

Parts have been ordered, and the car will go back for new rings when they arrive. They said it would take about a week or a bit more to complete the work. Fortunately, whenever warranty work goes overnight, I end up with a rental courtesy VW.


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## mrcozy (Jun 7, 2007)

*VW has changed their allowable oil consumption limits*

And... another update.

VW said that the parts for the re-ring job would be in within 7-10 days. I gave them a month.

Just called Serramonte VW in Colma (my dealership, who has been dealing with this from the beginning), and they said that VW had put a hold on the parts because, NOW, their guidelines say that:

:banghead: 1 QUART PER 1200 MILES IS ACCEPTABLE

I guess I should be thankful I've never had to have this car smogged, because I doubt I would pass.

I invoked the words "lemon law" with the service rep there, who's now contacting their VW rep to find out why they went back on this.

I love my VW, but I think it may be my first and last. They don't stand behind their products, and they've apparently made no strides in improving their quality.

Anyone know of any class-action suits on this? Warranties are useless if the allowable flaws are this egregious.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

VW stated that normal oil consumption could be up to 0.5 quart in 600 miles (1 qt in 1200 mi) in their TB released Dec 2008.

I know this is frustrating for you, but they haven't revised the consumption rate, that has been the "official" rate for the past two years.

Kevin


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

My guess is that VW is being strict on this requirement because this engine is gonna cut into their bottom line, severely, until they all fall out of warranty, probably why it was replaced with the CCTA so quickly. Regardless, VW should not be nit-picking over 100 miles. 1200 bad, 1300 no problems? BS, obviously your engine was made by the same guy that botched up all the others, including mine. I'm not sure what the issue is, I heard reports of rings installed incorrectly (ring gaps lined up, or rings installed upside down) could even be the ring material itself. Who know for sure but one thing that you can be sure of is that there is a defect in your engine and you should press this issue. $7/quart every other gas fill-up gets expensive!


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## mrcozy (Jun 7, 2007)

Apparently the service tech quoted me the allowable consumption levels for the normally-aspirated engine last July, not my 2.0T. So, the dealership screwed up.

I just got off the phone with the dealership, and they cleared that up, stating that the VW spec is .5qt/1000km (or .5qt/625mi, or 1qt/1250mi).

The dealer said my only recourse is through VW customer care. For the record, that's

(800) 822-8987

I can't decide whether to give in or pursue it. VW might be losing money on my purchase, but they're losing sales from all the people I've told of this and overheard me talking to the dealership (mostly software engineers with plenty of disposable income: anyone at VW listening?).


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

Not to tempt fate or rub salt in anybody's wounds... but finally I'm begining to think the 3.2 may have benefits other than it's glorious sound with the top down.... (From a software product manager, also based in the bay area)....


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## VW_Enthu1 (Oct 23, 2004)

Guys: This is one the most insane discussions I've seen in years about car engines (I'm 47). It's not 1978 folks. NO! It is NOT OK that your engine is burning a quart of oil every 600 or 800 or 1200 miles! WTH??!! Have some of us become so jaded to screwed up VW engines that we are rationalizing this as OK because VW - with some of the worst quality ratings - says it is? Are we out of our _*minds*_?

My Honda Element and Pilot, Nissan Quest, and - fortunately - Eurovan with 155K miles all don't burn a DROP in 3000 miles. If I had a car burning a quart of oil every 900 or 1100 and the dealer wouldn't fix it under warranty, I'd dump the car in a heartbeat and never buy from that manufacturer again....ever. EVER. That's a crap design or an engine with ring problems - either way, it's not a reallll good thing. 

I can't believe what I'm reading here ...I'm gonna go have a drink now so I can go to sleep...


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## mrcozy (Jun 7, 2007)

I think I just had the worst conversation I've ever had with a service entity on the phone. I've had better conversations with Comcast. And I think we all know what that means. 

Just as an aside, I've been playing phone tag with VW Customer Care for a week now. If they call and leave a message, you can't call back and expect to talk to anyone -- you answer a litany of information about your case, and then you get the case manager's voice mail. They have no way to even put you on hold. Also, despite requesting your e-mail address the case managers, "have no access to e-mail." What year is this again? I get e-mail on my _cell phone_, for crying out loud. 

First off, they did call back when they were supposed to, but caught my voice mail. "Daryl" said the dealership hadn't done something correctly, and I'd have to take the car to another dealership for a "second opinion" (oil consumption test). I wanted to call back to find out whether they were going to give me a rental, and find out what on earth has been going on between VW and my dealership. 

Anyhow, I just called again and _finally_ got through. Here are some highlights: 



The person I spoke with ("Teresa") had none of the records of the exchange between Serremonte Volkwagen and VW Tech Line. Yes, VW Tech Line and VW Customer Care are part of the same company. They're apparently not allowed to talk to each other. "We have no protocol for that" -- nearly exact quote 

As such, she could offer no explanation why the dealership's oil consumption test was inadequate. If memory serves, Tech Line required them to do a consumption test with a *100-mile* drive. She said that a consumption test is a *600-mile* drive, and performed by yours truly (which means I get to take the car back in twice). 

Subsequently, she had no information on the fact that Tech Line had authorized the repair, and then de-authorized it. 

She said that a problem I've been complaining about since 20K is no longer covered by warranty (since I'm now at 63K), despite the dealership verifying the problem, and performing multiple repairs over its history to correct it (none of which obviously worked). 

 

Bottom line, I have to take the car back into the dealership _again_, sit around while they do the test or try to get a ride to work (no more rentals for me), take the car back, drive around for a while, then bring it back to the dealership and wait around again. The only highlight of this mess is that they said it would be no-charge, though their protocol requires me to make the appointment with the dealership, call them back and tell them which dealership I'm taking it to. I have a sneaking suspicion that when I show up, the dealership will have no knowledge of any of this, and quote me an estimate. 

Folks, the reason I'm trying to get this fixed is that I want my VW to _last_. I love it. It drives great and you can't beat the CSC. I want to enjoy it for another 100K miles and not stink up California any more than I have to. That said, unless every other car company is this bad (and I know they aren't -- companies like Hyundai are actively trying to acquire US customers), I think this is going to be my _last_ VW, and that's just because of the clueless runaround I've gotten. It's more than compensated for the otherwise great car. I don't feel like they have my back at all. 

So, I'm playing the game anyway. Back to the dealer it goes. Again.


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## PaulZooms (Dec 16, 2006)

*OMG, Are you kidding me?*

Let me preface my remarks by saying that I absolutely _love_ my Eos. Apparantely, I have a "good one". Not a drip of leakage, and I have only added a measley 3 quarts of oil between changes in 33K+ miles. I religiously Krytox my "love-bug" once or twice a year and accept it as the cost of the wonderful CSC system that I enjoy so much. If my Eos were abducted by aliens, I would be inclined to take whatever my insurance gave me for my dearly departed chariot and go out an and buy a new 2012 Executive even though I do no not care for the new "corporate" front end. Prior to my 4-year warranty expiring, I bought a 6 year/60K extension. Understand that I _LOVE_ buying new cars, and consider arm-wresting with car saleman a blood sport which I revel in and routinely celebrate vanquishment of those poor, torutred souls. That I would "settle" for a decade driving the same car is, well, unfathomable and a signal accomnplishment of VW. Kudos to you for designing and buidling such an incredible vehicle. I surrender. You have locked up my car-driving "Jones". 

BMW 335ci, eat my dust! Why ever would I spend 50% more for a vehicle that is, at best, marginally superior, and has rear wheel drive only? 

When I read this thread, however, I have to stop and think. Do I REALLY want to consider another car from this company that leaves their customers twisting in the wind when they have problems with an obviously-flawed engine design? (don't get my wrong - I appreciate _my_ 2.0T, even if if I wonder if not getting the v6 was a mistake for the long term) My love-affair with VW is up for review. Are you listening, Herr Vinterkorn? You need to make this right. Screw the balance sheet. Your very reputation is on the line. Quality companies do not treat their customers this way. 

My wife's Rav4 is up for is up for replacement, and I might be interested in the overpriced Tiguan, but I will be dammed before I re-up with a company that does not stand behind its products. I will take a 1 in a 100K sticking-gas-pedal long before I select a 1 in 25 potentially-faulty-engine vehicle. VW has _ambitions_ of being the #1 global car company. Grasshopper, you have a LOT to learn before you accomplish this. I applaud your vision, but realize you have quite a long way to go in the customer service and support domain before this goal matriculates beyond a hyped, board-room fantasy. Own your mistakes, and you will be rewarded. Leave your customers with problems in voice-mail hell, and you will sow what you reap. 

Sign me, confused,befuddled and feeling jilted.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

Well stated Paul, 

With the tremendous number of vehicles manufactured annually worldwide (all manufactures) I think we are all willing to accept that sometimes a particular component will fall short of reliability expectations. 

It is how the manufacture stands behind the product and addresses the problem that defines the good companies from the bad. 

Like you, we are fortunate to have not experienced any of the difficulties reported by some owners, 
but you never know what lie around the corner, and it would comforting to know the manufacture will stand behind the product if something goes wrong. 

Kevin


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## Lcurrie (Mar 20, 2011)

*No oil*

Today my car's message center flashed "low oil pressure" turn engine off. There had not been a warning such as the check oil light coming on. Subsequently there was NO oil left in the car and what was in it was on the inside of the cap and very thick! Is my motor shot?


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

Lcurrie said:


> Today my car's message center flashed "low oil pressure" turn engine off. There had not been a warning such as the check oil light coming on. Subsequently there was NO oil left in the car and what was in it was on the inside of the cap and very thick! Is my motor shot?


 Not necessarily if you shut it off right away. 

Was it making any weird noises before you shut it down? 

obviously you need to get it into a dealer and have it checked out though. 

Kevin


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

I hate to be the barer of bad news but I think, at the very least, you have severely reduced the life of your engine. Running an engine with less then the required capacity of oil, in this case 5 quarts, will only stress the remaining oil reducing it's service life and ability to protect the moving parts in your engine. Running the engine until the "no oil pressure" message appears :facepalm: 

Even if you shut the engine off immediately when that message appeared, whatever remaining oil in the engine is basically tar as indicated by your comment of "thick oil on the cap". At the very least you've probably taken out the high pressure fuel pump cam follower, another weak link in this engine. It's subject to premature failure even with good oil in the sump. 

I feel sorry for the new owner of this used vehicle when you unload it!


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## Dene (Jan 5, 2011)

This past week I had the two step procedure of having the oil weighed to determine oil consumption. After 700 miles, it was determined I was using a half quart, which is acceptable according to VW. 

Next strategy is continuing to use Oil Can Henry, who offers free "top off" in between oil changes. I've gotten to become very familiar with their locations.


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## Doedrums (Jun 14, 2003)

Dene said:


> Next strategy is continuing to use Oil Can Henry, who offers free "top off" in between oil changes. I've gotten to become very familiar with their locations.


I'm assuming this is a quick lube type place. Just make sure they are using the proper oil or consumption will be the least of your worries.


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

Doedrums said:


> I'm assuming this is a quick lube type place. Just make sure they are using the proper oil or consumption will be the least of your worries.


Good point. If the oil isn't on VW's "warranty approved" list you will have no chance of getting a warranty repair if the oil consumption eventually exceeds VW's limit.

Kevin


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## Dene (Jan 5, 2011)

Doedrums said:


> I'm assuming this is a quick lube type place. Just make sure they are using the proper oil or consumption will be the least of your worries.


It's a high end one and they follow the book. Castrol synthetic.


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## Wheelin (Oct 25, 2010)

A friend of mine is going to be getting a 2008 VW Eos.. Should there be any problems with that year's engine leaking oil? Any advice would be great as to things to look out for. I have no experience with this car, so I'm trying to do my research now.


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## Dene (Jan 5, 2011)

*Oil Consumption test vs. reality*

A month ago, I had an oil consumption test and they claimed I was "only" burning a quart every 1200 miles. I've since put 1800 miles on it and used 3 quarts of Castrol Synthetic. Oil Can Henry, a high end franchise, tops off their customers for free. I'm putting them out of business.

I intend to challenge the dealership about this before my warranty goes away, in 4k miles.

Anybody else have this experience?


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## alant06 (Mar 19, 2014)

*Cylinder Compression*

I am not a mechanic but has anybody had their cylinder compression checked? Wouldn't this be a true sign of ring failure or manufacturing flaw which is what most of these posts are blaming the consumption on. If oil consumption did fall into their normal limits but ring problems could shown with the compression check I would think one could get some kind of fix done.


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