# Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS



## mitsui-g (Jul 23, 2003)

For sake of argument, how does Pagid Blue compare to Hawk HPS in terms of braking performance, fade resistance, wear(suggestive) and brake dust. I'm looking for personal experience from those who will reply to this thread.


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## vwrules (Jul 11, 2001)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (mitsui-g)*

I'm also curious about this. I'm getting ready to purchase a new set of pads for my Stoptech's. I currently have the Axxis Ultimates. The dust from them has been pretty rediculous, and they are quite noisy. Hopefully someone has some input about the Hawk APS or the Pagid's. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (mitsui-g)*

It's not from personal experience, but close. I have a good friend that I go to lots of events (track & autocross) with. He has run HPS, HP+, and Blues. I have run HPS, HP+, DS2500, and P+. Blues are in another world entirely from HPS. HPS is a decent, not great, street pad. It isn't low dust, but it is firm and even friction. HP+ is more bitey, quite firm, squeals like a baby, and dusts like crazy. Blues are even higher friction, very high temp (HP+ fades on track), high dust, and the dust will eat your rims. As for rotor wear, I can't comment. Blues don't seem to be as loud as HP+, though. FWIW, I drive on HP+ daily for the braking and deal with the squeal.


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## mitsui-g (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (AutoXMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutoXMan* »_It's not from personal experience, but close. I have a good friend that I go to lots of events (track & autocross) with. He has run HPS, HP+, and Blues. I have run HPS, HP+, DS2500, and P+. Blues are in another world entirely from HPS. HPS is a decent, not great, street pad. It isn't low dust, but it is firm and even friction. HP+ is more bitey, quite firm, squeals like a baby, and dusts like crazy. Blues are even higher friction, very high temp (HP+ fades on track), high dust, and the dust will eat your rims. As for rotor wear, I can't comment. Blues don't seem to be as loud as HP+, though. FWIW, I drive on HP+ daily for the braking and deal with the squeal.

Thanks for your input....What I'm looking for is for a daily driver pads that doesn't squeal and has a good cold bite, specially in the winter in -30 degree weather/snow. I had my mind set on HPS, but I was just looking to see if there's something more cost effective outhere that would offer equal performance, but better value than the HPS


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## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (AutoXMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutoXMan* »_It's not from personal experience, but close. I have a good friend that I go to lots of events (track & autocross) with. He has run HPS, HP+, and Blues. I have run HPS, HP+, DS2500, and P+. Blues are in another world entirely from HPS. HPS is a decent, not great, street pad. It isn't low dust, but it is firm and even friction. HP+ is more bitey, quite firm, squeals like a baby, and dusts like crazy. Blues are even higher friction, very high temp (HP+ fades on track), high dust, and the dust will eat your rims. As for rotor wear, I can't comment. Blues don't seem to be as loud as HP+, though. FWIW, I drive on HP+ daily for the braking and deal with the squeal.

Huh?? HPS a "decent" street pad? Isn't low dust? Dude, where are you getting this? I've had HPS' on my car for two years and I can say quite certainly what you say is SO not true. They are def. low dust and have performed quote well for me at umerous track events and are EXCELLENT on the street.








HP+ fade on the track? That's also news to me.


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## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (dcomiskey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcomiskey* »_Huh?? HPS a "decent" street pad? Isn't low dust? Dude, where are you getting this? I've had HPS' on my car for two years and I can say quite certainly what you say is SO not true. They are def. low dust and have performed quote well for me at umerous track events and are EXCELLENT on the street.








HP+ fade on the track? That's also news to me.









No offense, but coming from someone who has had HPS on their car for 2 years, how can you have the experience to compare them to anything else?








I'm getting my impressions from lots of personal experience. I have tried the following pads (and still have them on my shelf): Stock Pagids, Mintex Reds, HPS, HP+, Ferodo DS2500 (fronts), Carbotech P+ (fronts). I have used each for several thousand miles after breaking each in per manufacturers' recommendations. And yes, this means I was changing brake pads at least every few weeks. Rotors too, I also have 3 sets of front rotors. This was all in pursuit of GREAT braking at autocross, then on track.
I don't know if the HPS are the best street pad, but they're decent. That's how I meant it. Call them a 7 of 10. They aren't what I want in a street pad, but for someone that never does autocross or track days - they're good. Personally I thought they were very similar to the stock 20AE Pagids. (I originally went from Stock to Mintex to HPS to Stock and back to HPS again, btw) The HPS dusted as much as the stockers and had similar bite. I didn't test their fade resistance. 
With a stock braking system, I think HP+ and DS2500 are both IFFY track pads. The HP+ are great as long as you don't overheat them and replace them every 2 or 3 events. Of course, it all depends on how hard you drive the car. I have seen people on track driving so slow I thought they had broken something. Brake pads made of wood could have stopped them. Now that I have switched to ECS 2pc rotors, I am anxious to go back and try some of the other pads again - since rotors temps have dropped significantly.


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## SnowGTI2003 (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (AutoXMan)*

I concur with AutoXman.
After a vicious session at Dunnville my HPS pads were faded to nothing after 4 laps. HP Plus aquipped cars faired better than myself.
For the street HPS is a good. But if you track at all then HP PLus is the bare minimum with Blue being preferred.


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## dcomiskey (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (AutoXMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutoXMan* »_No offense, but coming from someone who has had HPS on their car for 2 years, how can you have the experience to compare them to anything else?










I had stock Pagids on the car for several months. I've also used Mintex in the past on my MKIII.








BTW, my HPS are now cooked after my track events. They're also getting noticeably more dusty, too. I'm going to be getting better pads before my next event. My last trip to Limerock, they were fading bad after only a lap. But, they held up for a long time before that.


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## aaonms (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (SnowGTI2003)*

In addition to OEM on my 2K2 GTI, I tried EBC Green Stuff pads. 
On my 20th, I swapped to Hawk HPS within a couple of months of having the car. Now, after 40K miles on the pads, I find that they dust considerably less than stock, stop at least as well as OEM, and work well when cold. Only three autocrosses this year and the run groups were big enough that the brake system cooled enough that I did not have a problem.
On previous street/autocross cars as well as roadrace cars, I had decent results w/ Performance Friction 80 and 83 pads. Lots of corrosive dust though.
I have Porterfields R4–S pads on my Jeep and they haul that heavy beast down in a hurry. Little dust too.
I’m considering them for the 20th. Additionally, looking at Performance Friction Z Street Pads or their 01 or 02 pads if they fit.
http://www.porterfield-brakes.com


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (aaonms)*

I use Hawk HPS for my daily driving and HP+ for track events. I have never experienced anything other than fluid-related fade using either on the track (was using the original OE fluid - don't do that!), but it should be said that the two tracks I have been to (BeaveRun and Nelson Ledges) are not hard on brakes. Here are my impressions of both:
HPS: For me, an excellent daily driver pad. My only issue with them is in rain they seem to take some time to "burn off" water, so initially, your stopping distance is increased. Once you warm up the rotors, the pads are fine. This may be exacerbated by the fact that I run the ECS 2v2 front brakes and by their very properties, they tend to run cool. As for initial bite in the cold, I can say these are quite good. I feel that they are a great compromise between preformance and low dust (I've never had a problem with these being dusty).
HP+: I have run the HPS and HP+ on the same track, and the difference is night and day. Bite on the HP+ is much better and while I never had a fade issue with the HPS, these felt much better. There are a couple issues with these as a daily driver: First is that after *1* 20 minute session, my wheels, which were sparkly clean before the run, were now pretty much a dark grey. If dust is a problem for you, don't run these daily. Second, they squeal like crazy when they're cold. Like me, your neighbors won't appreciate that. Lastly, they wear your rotors faster than the HPS. I'm not sure if the dust is more corrosive than the HPS, but I would guess that it is.
To sum up my opinion:
HPS = Great for your daily driver
HP+ = Great for HPDEs at tracks that aren't hard on brakes
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by collins_tc at 9:51 AM 8-23-2005_


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## vwrules (Jul 11, 2001)

*Re: Pagid Blue VS Hawk HPS (collins_tc)*

thanks for all the input thus far. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I ordered up a set of the HPS's. Sounds like I'll be much happier with them compared to my Axxis Ultimate's.


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