# Atlas deep snow test



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

Finally got snow in Utah, so I took the atlas out on the deepest steepest roads I could find by my house, and they are extremely steep.
I’m thoroughly impressed, driving through foot deep snow on steep mountain roads was no problem. For the ultimate test, I stopped on a steep incline and attempted to start moving again. It was slick and steep enough I almost started sliding backward. Up till this point it had done great in snow mode, but I couldn’t get going again on the incline. So after a few attempts to get moving again, I threw it in off-road mode and it clawed right up that hill with authority and almost no wheel spin! That was what impressed me the most. And all with the stock cross contacts to boot!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## atlas titan (Dec 15, 2017)

how fast can you go in snow mode mph with out losing control.


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

atlas titan said:


> how fast can you go in snow mode mph with out losing control.


Not sure were you are going with that, but there was no speed involved. This was a low speed traction exercise all under 15 MPH, to determine the limits of the Haldex system and the vehicle’s traction in adverse conditions. Basically what it could get itself unstuck from. Thought I would post it for everyone’s information on the capabilities of the system. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## atlas7 (May 29, 2017)

Thanks for posting that information. I am sure there are many besides myself that have not been able to test that in their own Atlas and are still wondering. The information that keeps coming in from the Forum Members is why I LOVE IT!


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

Last week, we had some snowy days, with some sleat and slush, about 2 inches; and I purposely tried to get the Atlas to lose control and throw it sideways and it was pretty difficult to do.
I'm really impressed with it, given it handles so well with the stock Conti tires. I believe it's power and ability is a bit understated.

When disabling all traction from a complete stop in 2 inches of snow, the back kicks out, which is puzzling, but yeah power is definitely being transferred to the rear.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

I always find amusing how people care more about moving forward then stopping in snow. Without snow tires one is danger on the road, regardless how it is moving forward in foot of snow. That is why JEEP’s and Subaru’s are first in the ditch here when blizzard hits. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

atlas titan said:


> how fast can you go in snow mode mph with out losing control.


I do not think anyone tried it, so maybe you can do experiment for us?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> I always find amusing how people care more about moving forward then stopping in snow. Without snow tires one is danger on the road, regardless how it is moving forward in foot of snow. That is JEEP’s and Subaru’s are first in the ditch here when blizzard hits.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It stopped just fine in the snow as well. If you read my previous posts, this was a worst scenario traction test. I’ve never owned snow tires and have never would up in a ditch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> It stopped just fine in the snow as well. If you read my previous posts, this was a worst scenario traction test. I’ve never owned snow tires and have never would up in a ditch.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It stopped just fine? What is just fine? What is not fine? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

edyvw said:


> ....Without snow tires one is danger on the road, regardless how it is moving forward in foot of snow....


A good driver does not need "snow tires" to drive in snow. A/S will get a good driver anywhere they need to go.


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

edyvw said:


> I always find amusing how people care more about moving forward then stopping in snow. Without snow tires one is danger on the road, regardless how it is moving forward in foot of snow. That is why JEEP’s and Subaru’s are first in the ditch here when blizzard hits.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This is true...
But you're right, winters are superior.


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

Don[emoji768 said:


> ;109245233]Last week, we had some snowy days, with some sleat and slush, about 2 inches; and I purposely tried to get the Atlas to lose control and throw it sideways and it was pretty difficult to do.
> I'm really impressed with it, given it handles so well with the stock Conti tires. I believe it's power and ability is a bit understated.
> 
> When disabling all traction from a complete stop in 2 inches of snow, the back kicks out, which is puzzling, but yeah power is definitely being transferred to the rear.


I agree with you the vehicle’s abilities are understated, but the haters will hate regardless


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> I agree with you the vehicle’s abilities are understated, but the haters will hate regardless
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


4Motion in Atlas is good as tires are. There is no way around that. 
What caught my attention is that on steep incline Atlas started to slide back. I have never experienced that on any car FWD, AWD or RWD equipped with winter tires. I once purposely stopped Tiguan equipped with Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 tires on steep incline over Hoosier pass (maybe around 11,000ft) during blizzard (we were getting around 4-5 inches of snow per hour). Not that car did not slide back, but I did not notice rear axle taking additional torque. Tried same thing with VW CC (fwd) equipped with Blizzak LM-60 tires, and while CC needed some wheel input, it moved and never slide back. 
Atlas has great AWD. But with snow tires on any fwd, I will beat any Atlas going uphill to ski resort that has all season tires. AWD doesn’t brake or hold car in curve, tires do. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TeamAtlas (Oct 17, 2017)

If you drive in snow, ever, I advocate for snow tires. This is no-brainer. The cost of getting in an accident (just the time lost even) far exceeds the cost of good winter tires that will last many seasons. If someone plows into me with summer tires in the winter they're going to have an unpleasant experience dealing with me!

I did a similar test at a park near my place. The city doesn't plow the lot and the entrance is STEEP. The surface is gravel, but we have enough snow the there was no gravel-to-tire contact. I too came to a complete stop and proceeded to drive straight up the hill without incident. Now I have winter tires, so yes, my capability will be superior to the Contis in driving, braking and cornering. I also did some powered maneuvers in the snow and was again totally impressed. Figure 8s on slippery parking lots had AMAZING grip and control (I'm sure the diffs got warm!). I really didn't expect it to be as good as it was. 

I prefer to drive manual cars, especially in the snow, since you can rock them back and forth and usually make headway even in very deep snow. I was totally impressed with the snow mode though, it limits your power at tip-in in such a way as to minimize your wheel spin. This can't rock the car, but it does make me feel like I have better control (still not total control with a clutch pedal, but pretty good). 

All in all, a great system, but if it snows, get some dang snow tires. :snowcool:


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

TeamAtlas said:


> If someone plows into me with summer tires in the winter they're going to have an unpleasant experience dealing with me!


The Cross Contact’s that came on the car are an All Season with the M+S (mud / snow) rating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> The Cross Contact’s that came on the car are an All Season with the M+S (mud / snow) rating.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol. All season tires are biggest scam by tire industry. 
M+S rating means that 25% of tire has to be open. Nothing else. There is no requirement about compound which is the most important thing when it comes to winter performance. 
All season tires are not good in anything. They are not good in snow and ice, they are not good in hot and wet. It is marketing scam. 
Check numerous tests between all season and winter tires. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

TeamAtlas said:


> If you drive in snow, ever, I advocate for snow tires. This is no-brainer. The cost of getting in an accident (just the time lost even) far exceeds the cost of good winter tires that will last many seasons. If someone plows into me with summer tires in the winter they're going to have an unpleasant experience dealing with me!
> 
> I did a similar test at a park near my place. The city doesn't plow the lot and the entrance is STEEP. The surface is gravel, but we have enough snow the there was no gravel-to-tire contact. I too came to a complete stop and proceeded to drive straight up the hill without incident. Now I have winter tires, so yes, my capability will be superior to the Contis in driving, braking and cornering. I also did some powered maneuvers in the snow and was again totally impressed. Figure 8s on slippery parking lots had AMAZING grip and control (I'm sure the diffs got warm!). I really didn't expect it to be as good as it was.
> 
> ...


I agree, if someone hit my car on all seasons while snow is on the ground or ice, oh well. As one of my neighbors put sign: if you speed and hit my kid, you won’t need lawyer. 
We had couple years ago pile up on I70 Eastbound, descending to Denver. It is 6-8% descent. First car had snow tires and brake and two cars behind on all season could not stop. In total 64 cars piled up. 
Colorado legislature took after that accident law to consider to require snow tires, but then bunch of people started to yell freedom, government controlling lives and similar BS. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TeamAtlas (Oct 17, 2017)

The only place I know they are legislated is in the province of Quebec in Canada. Here in Ontario, they are incentivized by the insurance companies. Generally, most will give you a slight discount if your run snow tires (though they would never know unless you were in an accident and didn't have them installed. This would also be fraud).


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

TeamAtlas said:


> The only place I know they are legislated is in the province of Quebec in Canada. Here in Ontario, they are incentivized by the insurance companies. Generally, most will give you a slight discount if your run snow tires (though they would never know unless you were in an accident and didn't have them installed. This would also be fraud).


Maybe if I lived in Ontario I would have a set of snow tires.... I guess winter is pretty dicey up there. Snow tires do not seem too popular around here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

TeamAtlas said:


> The only place I know they are legislated is in the province of Quebec in Canada. Here in Ontario, they are incentivized by the insurance companies. Generally, most will give you a slight discount if your run snow tires (though they would never know unless you were in an accident and didn't have them installed. This would also be fraud).


Well I am from Bosnia originally, over there on November 15th you MUST have snow tires until April 15th. 
If you get caught on anything that does not have snow flake on sidewall you are fined and probably out of traffic.


----------



## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

TeamAtlas said:


> If you drive in snow, ever, I advocate for snow tires. This is no-brainer. The cost of getting in an accident (just the time lost even) far exceeds the cost of good winter tires that will last many seasons. If someone plows into me with summer tires in the winter they're going to have an unpleasant experience dealing with me!....


There is a big difference with a vehicle on A/S tires compared to summer tires in snow. Snow tires are not necessary for a majority of drivers in the USA.


----------



## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

edyvw said:


> Lol. All season tires are biggest scam by tire industry.
> M+S rating means that 25% of tire has to be open. Nothing else. There is no requirement about compound which is the most important thing when it comes to winter performance.
> All season tires are not good in anything. They are not good in snow and ice, they are not good in hot and wet. It is marketing scam.
> Check numerous tests between all season and winter tires.....


You need to do a lot of research on modern A/S tires. You have a lot of misunderstandings to overcome.


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

I've always used snows on my fwd/awd cars, November through April.

Just that I don't have them on the Atlas just yet.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Don[emoji768 said:


> ;109261817]I've always used snows on my fwd/awd cars, November through April.
> 
> Just that I don't have them on the Atlas just yet.


Well here in CO this winter is so dry it is ridiculous. One could drive on max performance summers 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> Well here in CO this winter is so dry it is ridiculous. One could drive on max performance summers
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same here generally, snowpack is dismal, and all we got a day ago has melted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> Same here generally, snowpack is dismal, and all we got a day ago has melted.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am so glad I didn’t get for BMW some super soft winters this season. I went with Michelin Latitude Xi2 and they are pretty good in dry, much better then previous Blizzak DM-V2 I had on X5. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## actualself (May 21, 2017)

*"All Season Plus" Tires instead of dedicated snows?*

I live in New England, and want better snow/ice handling for my SEL Premium.

Nothing intense -- just around town and driving on the highway while it's snowing.

That said, I'd prefer not to deal with the hassle/expense of dedicated snows/wheels/switching costs.

Wondering about getting some "all season plus" tires like Nokian makes -- www.nokiantires.com

Any thoughts?

Thank you!


----------



## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

actualself said:


> ....Wondering about getting some "all season plus" tires like Nokian makes -- www.nokiantires.com ....Any thoughts?....


A good A/S tire is all most folks will ever need.


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

For $1200 you can get a decent set of winters with alloys, best bet.

Waiting on mine to come in.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

actualself said:


> I live in New England, and want better snow/ice handling for my SEL Premium.
> 
> Nothing intense -- just around town and driving on the highway while it's snowing.
> 
> ...


Had the wr g3 on my passat. It's a good compromise tire. Not as good in the snow and ice like a hakka r2 but that's the compromise you make.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

actualself said:


> I live in New England, and want better snow/ice handling for my SEL Premium.
> 
> Nothing intense -- just around town and driving on the highway while it's snowing.
> 
> ...


Winter tires are hassle? So driving on all seasons in New England slush is ok, but owning set of snows is a hassle? 
Nokian is good tire, but it comes with strings attached. 
I just got Nokian Hakka R2 and they were 2 1/2 years old on delivery. I have never in my life purchased tire that old. I am done with them period. That is problem of not having high volume of tires sold. 
When you have tire that manufacturer claims is “all” that means actually it is not good in any condition, if you compare to dedicate snow or summer tire. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

Welp, 8"-10' of snow at temps below -15C and stock tires have reached their limits with traction, especially when breaking. Snow or Offroad settings doen't help much.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Don[emoji768 said:


> ;109306825]Welp, 8"-10' of snow at temps below -15C and stock tires have reached their limits with traction, especially when breaking. Snow or Offroad settings doen't help much.


Stock tires reached limit at +7 degrees. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

edyvw said:


> Stock tires reached limit at +7 degrees.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Meh, yeah I'd say the same, but I'm mentioning this because in the same area, same depth at -5C it had not problem with traction and was better breaking.

None-the-less I'm looking forward to putting on the winters.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Don[emoji768 said:


> ;109307457]Meh, yeah I'd say the same, but I'm mentioning this because in the same area, same depth at -5C it had not problem with traction and was better breaking.
> 
> None-the-less I'm looking forward to putting on the winters.


Initial braking reaction increased because compound hardened. However, applying full brake force will break traction on stock tires faster then in warm weather. It is just nature of the beast. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

This video applies. Stock All-season is some sort of Yokohama Geolandar. Winter tire: studdable winter tire (not studded).


----------



## is95a (Jul 6, 2017)

*I don't know about deep snow, but...*

Wife uses our Atlas SEL Premium as her daily driver and generally loves it. She took it into work this morning after maybe 2 inches of snow on the ground and temperatures in the teens, and she was really disturbed at how poorly it performed. We have had many AWD/4WD vehicles ( a couple of Wranglers, Durango, Grand Cherokee, Explorer, Mini Countryman) and she said this was by far the worst performing. I have never used winter tires for any of the above vehicles, but now I am thinking I need to strongly consider them for the Atlas. We have the factory All Season Conti tires (first time I have ever had Continental tires I think) and tire pressure was just checked this week. She has experience driving in these conditions, so I totally believe it was as bad as she said it was. The Atlas was sliding everywhere, especially going down a steep hill. ABS kicked in the whole time, even though she was driving very slow, knowing that this was the first time she was driving the Atlas in the snow. She honestly said her old Jetta did better in the snow! Ridiculous and very disappointing.


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

is95a said:


> Wife uses our Atlas SEL Premium as her daily driver and generally loves it. She took it into work this morning after maybe 2 inches of snow on the ground and temperatures in the teens, and she was really disturbed at how poorly it performed. We have had many AWD/4WD vehicles ( a couple of Wranglers, Durango, Grand Cherokee, Explorer, Mini Countryman) and she said this was by far the worst performing. I have never used winter tires for any of the above vehicles, but now I am thinking I need to strongly consider them for the Atlas. We have the factory All Season Conti tires (first time I have ever had Continental tires I think) and tire pressure was just checked this week. She has experience driving in these conditions, so I totally believe it was as bad as she said it was. The Atlas was sliding everywhere, especially going down a steep hill. ABS kicked in the whole time, even though she was driving very slow, knowing that this was the first time she was driving the Atlas in the snow. She honestly said her old Jetta did better in the snow! Ridiculous and very disappointing.


I wonder if the temperature was too blame because I had the opposite experience. Deep snow and steep steep unplowed hills and I was blown away at how well it did. Maybe it’s just the tires that came on it and how cold it was.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

0macman0 said:


> I wonder if the temperature was too blame because I had the opposite experience. Deep snow and steep steep unplowed hills and I was blown away at how well it did. Maybe it’s just the tires that came on it and how cold it was.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Same here. Drove our new Atlas in the snow today and was blown away by the performance of the stock A/S tires and AWD combo while using the snow setting. Granted DC only got about 2-3".. but this was very early this morning before traffic and plows came out. The Atlas performed fantastic. Wife was in the passenger seat and so impressed that she commented how safe she felt going point A to point B this morning that the trip made the '18 Atlas purchase "worth every dollar!!". Our previous daily drivers were both RWD sports cars.. so you can imagine how much confident the AWD Atlas is in bad weather. 

One of things I have about the whole Winter vs A/S tire argument is that nobody mentions the most important factor = *LOCATION*. Those that do use winter tires love to shout how necessary in the winter.. while somehow forgetting not everybody lives in Canada. The reason why A/S are so popular in America is because 2/3s of the country live in areas that just dont get much snow, they get dustings. Hell half the country doesnt get snow period. As the youtube video above pointed out.. A/S tires are technically 3 season tires.. which is perfect as most of US simply doesnt get a "real" winter and really only experiences 3 seasons.

For example if I lived in Florida.. are winter tires necessary during the winter? In DC we do get a few inches of snow here & there during the winter but its never anything that isn't cleared within hours by plows and salt trucks. Most of the time the major streets are completely clear before the morning commute starts and at most you might have trouble getting out of your driveway or even neighborhood side streets. Every once in a while we get a "big" storm.. meaning 6-8" of snow in one day enough to shut down the Federal government and local schools.. but regardless the size of the store a major metropolitan area with 5 million commuters has enough money and resources to make sure roads are clear within 24 hours. And when I say clear, I mean you can see visible black asphalt again. 

Lets talk temperatures for a minute. The average temperature during the winter is about 35 degrees here during the day and high 20's a night. Furthermore temps fluctuations are huge in the mid-atlantic region during the winter. It can literally be 26 degrees one day.. and 62 degrees the next day. The mild temps, mild snowfall and big temperature fluctuations mean I would never invest in winter tires as long as I live in the DC area. Its simply not worth the time/money/effort for the 'dustings' we generally receive. Same mentality that goes with buying/storing/using a big $800 gasoline powered snow blower.. its a complete waste of money here as you'd be lucky to use it even once a year. If it ever snows that bad.. pay the neighborhood kids $40 to shovel your driveway and sidewalk. Granted If I ever moved further north.. say Pennslyvania or NY.. I'd certainly consider winter tires due the colder avg temps and higher snowfall amounts.. but DC is simply too far south for the price of a second set of wheels & tires.. storing them and then performing swaps twice a year. Hell we've had quite a few winters were never get snow that sticks to the street, the ground is too warm.


----------



## jkueter (Feb 12, 2008)

I went out yesterday in about 6-8" of unplowed roads. I'm running snows. Normal mode was kind of useless as the front wheels spin too much (I have a bit of lead foot even in snow) before the AWD kicks in. Snow mode worked great, but pretty easy to get the car sliding around (even with snows) if you step on it. It was intentional on my part because 1. its fun and 2. I wanted to see where the limits are. Stopping is decent, but you have to remember it's a 5000lb truck and isn't going to stop as quick as your old Jetta, so plan ahead. 4Motion has nothing to do with stopping anyway.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Daekwan said:


> Same here. Drove our new Atlas in the snow today and was blown away by the performance of the stock A/S tires and AWD combo while using the snow setting. Granted DC only got about 2-3".. but this was very early this morning before traffic and plows came out. The Atlas performed fantastic. Wife was in the passenger seat and so impressed that she commented how safe she felt going point A to point B this morning that the trip made the '18 Atlas purchase "worth every dollar!!". Our previous daily drivers were both RWD sports cars.. so you can imagine how much confident the AWD Atlas is in bad weather.
> 
> One of things I have about the whole Winter vs A/S tire argument is that nobody mentions the most important factor = *LOCATION*. Those that do use winter tires love to shout how necessary in the winter.. while somehow forgetting not everybody lives in Canada. The reason why A/S are so popular in America is because 2/3s of the country live in areas that just dont get much snow, they get dustings. Hell half the country doesnt get snow period. As the youtube video above pointed out.. A/S tires are technically 3 season tires.. which is perfect as most of US simply doesnt get a "real" winter and really only experiences 3 seasons.
> 
> ...


1) No one ever suggested to get winter tires in Florida, despite the snow-hurricane yesterday that dumped some snow on them. If you were a coastal SoCal person that likes to go skiing, then it is something to consider, due to snow chain compatibility, as you enter a chain control area or spend nearly $600 for a thule K-summit

2) Manufacturers make winter tires appropriate for a mild winter, where you get more wet cold, than snow. It's often referred to as "Performance Winter" tires. Very few choices for the Altas sizes though. They can still make it past a good blizzard.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

BsickPassat said:


> 1) No one ever suggested to get winter tires in Florida, despite the snow-hurricane yesterday that dumped some snow on them. If you were a coastal SoCal person that likes to go skiing, then it is something to consider, due to snow chain compatibility, as you enter a chain control area or spend nearly $600 for a thule K-summit
> 
> 2) Manufacturers make winter tires appropriate for a mild winter, where you get more wet cold, than snow. It's often referred to as "Performance Winter" tires. Very few choices for the Altas sizes though. They can still make it past a good blizzard.


I am running now Michelin Xi2 on BMW, and would say they are really good in dry and wet. Could be good choice for people who have milder winters. 
As for deep snow performance, it is so warm and dry this winter that they still didn’t see snow. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

BsickPassat said:


> 1) No one ever suggested to get winter tires in Florida, despite the snow-hurricane yesterday that dumped some snow on them. If you were a coastal SoCal person that likes to go skiing, then it is something to consider, due to snow chain compatibility, as you enter a chain control area or spend nearly $600 for a thule K-summit
> 
> 2) Manufacturers make winter tires appropriate for a mild winter, where you get more wet cold, than snow. It's often referred to as "Performance Winter" tires. Very few choices for the Altas sizes though. They can still make it past a good blizzard.


You are still missing the point. Most of the people living in the US simply don't drive in temperatures that typically get cold enough (or wet enough) on average to require any type of "performance winter", "winter" or "whatever the hell winter" you want to call it tires. Hell forget the whole winter tires for minute.. the vast majority of Americans also don't even need AWD. Its extra weight, extra cost and since most AWD systems FWD based the benefit is almost non-existent in most driving conditions. Granted we paid extra for AWD as extra 'insurance' for slippery conditions (i.e. mostly rain and gravel).. but like winter tires.. AWD is also not necessary those living for the mid-atlantic region of the US. A FWD car with good A/S tread is perfectly capable year round here. 

For the 1/3rd of Americans who do live in areas with harsh winters and decent snow fall amounts.. or as you say likes to go up mountains to ski.. then of course winter tires are appropriate and recommended for conditions.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Daekwan said:


> You are still missing the point. Most of the people living in the US simply don't drive in temperatures that typically get cold enough (or wet enough) on average to require any type of "performance winter", "winter" or "whatever the hell winter" you want to call it tires. Hell forget the whole winter tires for minute.. the vast majority of Americans also don't even need AWD. Its extra weight, extra cost and since most AWD systems FWD based the benefit is almost non-existent in most driving conditions. Granted we paid extra for AWD as extra 'insurance' for slippery conditions (i.e. mostly rain and gravel).. but like winter tires.. AWD is also not necessary those living for the mid-atlantic region of the US. A FWD car with good A/S tread is perfectly capable year round here.
> 
> For the 1/3rd of Americans who do live in areas with harsh winters and decent snow fall amounts.. or as you say likes to go up mountains to ski.. then of course winter tires are appropriate and recommended for conditions.


Where does most Americans live? I thought Northeastern part of the US is the most populated part of the country. including states like North Carolina requires tires that are good in cold weather and sorry, all season will not cut on black ice, slush etc. are you saying that New England, PA, MI, IL, WI, OH, WV, MD, DE etc. and not to mention Mountain West do not need winter tires? 
I understand that you have that opinion. Usually people with that argument are source of accidents during inclement weather. And point of winter tires is not moving forward. So your correlation with AWD doesn’t make sense. No one died from not moving forward fast enough. 
To add one more point. I lived in Michigan, South Carolina, Alabama, Illinois, California and now in Colorado. 
Except few snow storms( and snow melts in front range in no time) except CA and AL all other states were worse to drive then Colorado, including SC because of ice. If I lived in Greenville, SC again I would make sure I have some winter shoes on, probably Michelin x-ice. 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Double


----------



## Atlas123 (Sep 18, 2017)

Don® said:


> For $1200 you can get a decent set of winters with alloys, best bet.


I second this. I too was hesitant to daal with he hassle of winter tires and went for all season plus tires for my last vehicle. Not worth it. Winter tires make huge difference and buying them with extra alloy wheels makes it easy to swap.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Daekwan said:


> You are still missing the point. Most of the people living in the US simply don't drive in temperatures that typically get cold enough (or wet enough) on average to require any type of "performance winter", "winter" or "whatever the hell winter" you want to call it tires. Hell forget the whole winter tires for minute.. the vast majority of Americans also don't even need AWD. Its extra weight, extra cost and since most AWD systems FWD based the benefit is almost non-existent in most driving conditions. Granted we paid extra for AWD as extra 'insurance' for slippery conditions (i.e. mostly rain and gravel).. but like winter tires.. AWD is also not necessary those living for the mid-atlantic region of the US. A FWD car with good A/S tread is perfectly capable year round here.
> 
> For the 1/3rd of Americans who do live in areas with harsh winters and decent snow fall amounts.. or as you say likes to go up mountains to ski.. then of course winter tires are appropriate and recommended for conditions.


Again you are missing the point. Point to where us snow tire proponents say everyone in the US must have winter tires in the northern hemisphere winter.

Fact Is, no one said that. You're just putting words in people's mouths to make you think you are proving a valid point.

AWD also helps in the summer months. If you have curvy roads that you like to push, having the rear wheels join in will help correct some of the plow/understeer inherent in nose heavy FWD vehicles.

Don't you remember the Audi Quattro commercials where they touted that Quattro gave Audi an unfair advantage, that they were banned from a particular series of track racing?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


----------



## is95a (Jul 6, 2017)

Daekwan said:


> Same here. Drove our new Atlas in the snow today and was blown away by the performance of the stock A/S tires and AWD combo while using the snow setting. Granted DC only got about 2-3".. but this was very early this morning before traffic and plows came out. The Atlas performed fantastic. Wife was in the passenger seat and so impressed that she commented how safe she felt going point A to point B this morning that the trip made the '18 Atlas purchase "worth every dollar!!". Our previous daily drivers were both RWD sports cars.. so you can imagine how much confident the AWD Atlas is in bad weather.
> 
> One of things I have about the whole Winter vs A/S tire argument is that nobody mentions the most important factor = *LOCATION*. Those that do use winter tires love to shout how necessary in the winter.. while somehow forgetting not everybody lives in Canada. The reason why A/S are so popular in America is because 2/3s of the country live in areas that just dont get much snow, they get dustings. Hell half the country doesnt get snow period. As the youtube video above pointed out.. A/S tires are technically 3 season tires.. which is perfect as most of US simply doesnt get a "real" winter and really only experiences 3 seasons.
> 
> ...


Coming from "RWD sports cars" of course the Atlas performs better in these conditions. My argument is that the Atlas does not perform as well as other 4WD/AWD vehicles we have owned.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

is95a said:


> Coming from "RWD sports cars" of course the Atlas performs better in these conditions. My argument is that the Atlas does not perform as well as other 4WD/AWD vehicles we have owned.


What are other vehicles? Atlas AWD is fairly simple, but with right tires should do a lot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## is95a (Jul 6, 2017)

I was referring to Daekwan "coming from RWD vehicles". My wife and I have had two Wranglers (Rubicon and Sahara), Grand Cherokee, Cherokee, Durango, Explorer, Mini Countryman All4 just since 2000. I have never had snow tires on any of them, and while I agree that they would be preferred on all the vehicles, I never found them necessary to feel safe driving a vehicle. My wife was honestly petrified with the Atlas performance on such a little amount of snow. The low temperatures (they were actually in the single digits, not the teens) may have contributed, so I am willing to give it another chance.


----------



## loopless (Oct 4, 2007)

is95a said:


> I was referring to Daekwan "coming from RWD vehicles". My wife and I have had two Wranglers (Rubicon and Sahara), Grand Cherokee, Cherokee, Durango, Explorer, Mini Countryman All4 just since 2000. I have never had snow tires on any of them, and while I agree that they would be preferred on all the vehicles, I never found them necessary to feel safe driving a vehicle. My wife was honestly petrified with the Atlas performance on such a little amount of snow. The low temperatures (they were actually in the single digits, not the teens) may have contributed, so I am willing to give it another chance.


As everyone is saying...it’s all about the tires. If your atlas is sliding around vs other vehicles it’s the tires.. period. The differences in AWD systems would have a negligible effect..


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

is95a said:


> I was referring to Daekwan "coming from RWD vehicles". My wife and I have had two Wranglers (Rubicon and Sahara), Grand Cherokee, Cherokee, Durango, Explorer, Mini Countryman All4 just since 2000. I have never had snow tires on any of them, and while I agree that they would be preferred on all the vehicles, I never found them necessary to feel safe driving a vehicle. My wife was honestly petrified with the Atlas performance on such a little amount of snow. The low temperatures (they were actually in the single digits, not the teens) may have contributed, so I am willing to give it another chance.


All vehicles you mentioned are usual suspects when it comes to accidents when it is slippery here in CO, especially Wranglers. Same is with Subaru’s. Most owners think that those vehicles have unprecedented advantage over others when it comes to AWD. Ok, yeah, JEEP’ have very good 4WD and with A/T tires will move forward fast. However that is about only thing they do better. 
I would say it is tires. Position of an engine in any VW vehicle makes it very good snow vehicle. However, put crappy tires on any car and car or AWD is only as good as tires are. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

I find Suby's tend to understeer not unless you unsettle the rear end.

Coming from an Audi Q7 with winters in deep snow, the Atlas with winters is just as capable using the Offroad setting, otherwise the normal driving mode isn't the greatest. I find it front wheel drive bias, whereas Offroad disables everything making it back end happy.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

Don[emoji768 said:


> ;109481593]I find Suby's tend to understeer not unless you unsettle the rear end.
> 
> Coming from an Audi Q7 with winters in deep snow, the Atlas with winters is just as capable using the Offroad setting, otherwise the normal driving mode isn't the greatest. I find it front wheel drive bias, whereas Offroad disables everything making it back end happy.


I would not compare it to Q7. Torsen is different animal, distribution in normal mode is 40/60 in FWD biased car so IMO it balances self out. Plus it is longitudinal engine etc. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

edyvw said:


> I would not compare it to Q7. Torsen is different animal, distribution in normal mode is 40/60 in FWD biased car so IMO it balances self out. Plus it is longitudinal engine etc.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Definitely a different animal, but every bit as capable from a traction standpoint.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

0macman0 said:


> Definitely a different animal, but every bit as capable from a traction standpoint.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


What I found out with haldex in Tiguan is that while it is moving, it is actually better then BMW X5. It helps that tires are 215/65 R16, car is short, etc. BMW engine is more behind front axle to help performance part, and it is great driving it thru curves, but snow plowing suffers. 
I purposely stuck both cars during blizzards in Arapahoe Basin just to see how they react. Once Tiguan is stuck, it is done. I had at that time Bridgestone Blizzak WS70 which are really good in deep snow. But once you stuck, that is it, AWD just does not have that capability. BMW, while not as good on plowing snow, once it is stuck it actually figures it out how to get out. xDrive is shifting torque and eventually with good tires (I had Blizzak DM-V2 on it) it digs it self out. I would say Q7 would do even better job considering that IMO Quattro is at least step above xDrive. 
Considering what I said, with nice winter shoes (and we can go into details which tire is bit better in ice, or deep snow, but honestly all winters are good from reputable manufacturers) is going to do really good on the roads. I think only problem will be if you get stuck in 2ft of snow. IMO, in family cars AWD like xDrive or Quattro just add weight, nothing else. Haldex will do all those things equally good in normal conditions. 
But, what I noticed is that people are making judgments about AWD while completely neglecting tires. It is impossible to compare two AWD systems or two cars with different sets of tires in snow. From what I saw on lots here when testing Atlas is that those are NOT tires I would be driving on to go to ski here in CO.


----------



## brian81 (Apr 19, 2007)

Last week we got about 17" of snow with temperatures ranging from -5 at night to +12 during the day. Schools, non-essential functions, and work for me were closed. The roads were icy underneath due to prior snow and temps from 0 to 15º for almost a week. My driveway goes downhill to the house about 25 feet over a 100 foot distance.

In "Normal" drive mode, the 4Mo SE I took home went right up the unplowed driveway, and did a lap around town without flinching. I ordered my car specifically for 3 season towing, but look forward to getting it for ski/snowboarding trips next winter. I have snows on wheels for our cars (all FWD) that are used in the winter, but I won't bother for the Atlas.


----------



## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

brian81 said:


> Last week we got about 17" of snow with temperatures ranging from -5 at night to +12 during the day. Schools, non-essential functions, and work for me were closed. The roads were icy underneath due to prior snow and temps from 0 to 15º for almost a week. My driveway goes downhill to the house about 25 feet over a 100 foot distance.
> 
> In "Normal" drive mode, the 4Mo SE I took home went right up the unplowed driveway, and did a lap around town without flinching. I ordered my car specifically for 3 season towing, but look forward to getting it for ski/snowboarding trips next winter. I have snows on wheels for our cars (all FWD) that are used in the winter, but I won't bother for the Atlas.


Yes why would you bother because AWD also brakes. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

I love how this thread went from “hey 4 motion is pretty impressive” to an argument about tires.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Daekwan (Nov 5, 2017)

0macman0 said:


> I love how this thread went from “hey 4 motion is pretty impressive” to an argument about tires.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you pay attention the same "know it alls" tend to ruin every thread on this forum. And I mean literally every thread.

Speaking of which does this forum have an ignore feature?


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Daekwan said:


> If you pay attention the same "know it alls" tend to ruin every thread on this forum. And I mean literally every thread.
> 
> Speaking of which does this forum have an ignore feature?


Yes. There is an ignore feature. You have to click on the person you have to ignore, and then in the profile screen, you can choose to ignore someone.


----------



## TeamAtlas (Oct 17, 2017)

Found out how to turn off the traction control and it will happily get the back end out! Very similar to my friend's R32. 

Very pleased with the winter performance, may not buy a FWD family ride ever again. We're going to put it to the test again tomorrow with a trip up north in what might be really poor weather.


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

TeamAtlas said:


> Found out how to turn off the traction control and it will happily get the back end out! Very similar to my friend's R32.
> 
> Very pleased with the winter performance, may not buy a FWD family ride ever again. We're going to put it to the test again tomorrow with a trip up north in what might be really poor weather.


It’s in the infotainment system right? What did you set it too?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

0macman0 said:


> It’s in the infotainment system right? What did you set it too?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ESC and ASR need to be disabled.
The other way of doing it is by selecting Offroad mode custom and disable the ASR from there under adjustments.


----------



## saltyirishman (Sep 20, 2017)

actualself said:


> I live in New England, and want better snow/ice handling for my SEL Premium.
> 
> Nothing intense -- just around town and driving on the highway while it's snowing.
> 
> ...


I had Continental DWS on my Audi S8 and that thing was a beast in snow. The only "all season" I would feel super confident in running year round personally. They are not cheap but are fantastic tires.


----------



## bluesmachine (Nov 26, 2010)

What size tires and what type were you using from that original post?


----------



## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

Always wanted to try dedicated winter tires but central VA just doesn't see enough temp/weather to dick with it. A/S tires and a FWD car and some care is all that is needed to navigate the roads the few times it gets nasty or *gasp* just stay in.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


----------



## Atlas123 (Sep 18, 2017)

The Atlas works great in snow with my winter tires and the AWD together. The only thing I worry about is all the bozos who have AWD and all seasons who think they can keep up with me, but then nearly rear end me when they realize they take two times as long as me to stop!

Remember though winter tires aren’t just for snow or subzero temps. Once weather is regularly in the mid-40s or below, all season rubber gets brittle and less effective. 

This is the first time I bothered with winter tires and regret fooling myself my whole life into thinking they weren’t worth it, and even going to the trouble to buy outrageously expensive premium all seasons for incremental snow improvements.


----------



## Pnvwfun (Jan 22, 2018)

*Better Tires*



Atlas123 said:


> The Atlas works great in snow with my winter tires and the AWD together. The only thing I worry about is all the bozos who have AWD and all seasons who think they can keep up with me, but then nearly rear end me when they realize they take two times as long as me to stop!
> 
> Remember though winter tires aren’t just for snow or subzero temps. Once weather is regularly in the mid-40s or below, all season rubber gets brittle and less effective.
> 
> This is the first time I bothered with winter tires and regret fooling myself my whole life into thinking they weren’t worth it, and even going to the trouble to buy outrageously expensive premium all seasons for incremental snow improvements.


I agree that winter tires give the best possible snow traction and should be used in certain areas. Our climate and road conditions here don't warrant them for AWD vehicles. I was up in the mountains last week and went on an unplowed road when the weather turned to rain and sleet on top of 6 inches of fresh snow. I did slide around some in AWD because of the tires. I attribute that to the quality of the AS tires, not the AWD. I may not have made it without AWD on these tires. Winter tires would have been great, but good AS tires are all that's needed for the frequency I drive in those conditions.

The Conti Crosscontact LX Sport OEM tires they put on the Atlas are crappy, below average at best. Even Tire Rack reviewers that have them on other AWD vehicles have complained about them. In my case, even a better Conti AS tire would be sufficient for our climate. I will probably replace them before next winter, and definitely not with these same tires, but with a good AS tire. Most OEM tires are crap so this is not just a VW issue.


----------



## Dwyer222 (Dec 17, 2020)

0macman0 said:


> Finally got snow in Utah, so I took the atlas out on the deepest steepest roads I could find by my house, and they are extremely steep.
> I’m thoroughly impressed, driving through foot deep snow on steep mountain roads was no problem. For the ultimate test, I stopped on a steep incline and attempted to start moving again. It was slick and steep enough I almost started sliding backward. Up till this point it had done great in snow mode, but I couldn’t get going again on the incline. So after a few attempts to get moving again, I threw it in off-road mode and it clawed right up that hill with authority and almost no wheel spin! That was what impressed me the most. And all with the stock cross contacts to boot!


while I’m sure you’re just an AMAZING driver and so glad you told us all about it, most people should use snows. There’s really nothing to discuss. Added traction and control are worth it whether you think you need it or not. 

[/QUOTE]


----------



## Bbb34 (Aug 5, 2010)

Dwyer222 said:


> while I’m sure you’re just an AMAZING driver and so glad you told us all about it, most people should use snows. There’s really nothing to discuss. Added traction and control are worth it whether you think you need it or not.


+1

How's this even a debate always escapes me... LOL
RWD/AWD/FWD (yes I own(ed) them all and have been driving them for 4-5 months for years in nasty winter climate)... doesn't matter. If you live in area where there's snow on the ground several months a year, it's a no brainer, get dedicated winter tires, for your own and other people's sake.

The difference is lateral grip and stopping is staggering, how can some even begin to debate that is always shocking to me.


----------



## 0macman0 (Nov 6, 2017)

Dwyer222 said:


> while I’m sure you’re just an AMAZING driver and so glad you told us all about it, most people should use snows. There’s really nothing to discuss. Added traction and control are worth it whether you think you need it or not.


[/QUOTE]

Hey sometimes you just gotta let the world know! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

This time last year we drove back to Northern Virginia from Ottawa... Left Ottawa in the late afternoon after my sons' hockey game (championship win in the Bell Capital Cup for you youth hockey enthusiasts). We left the Canadian Tire Centre to find the Atlas encased in ice. So that was a fun start. Road conditions were complete crap. Heading towards the border crossing at Alexandria Bay, NY the roads were frozen over and those two crazy bridges were scary as hell.

Once we got into the States the stretch of I-81 from Watertown to just north of Syracuse were really sketchy. The Atlas and stock Contis never skipped a beat though. I even had to dodge a monstrous deer... no clue how I missed that damn thing, let alone keeping the car on the road.

We had another incident a few years before on I-70 in a bit of blizzard between Wheeling, WV and Columbus, OH. The winding hills in WV weren't plowed and we never saw a plow in OH either. The Atlas forged its own path no issue.

Overall I'm very impressed with the Haldex and stock A/S tires. There's no snow to speak of here in the Netherlands so I'll continue with A/S... The wife wants to go back to MN when we're done here - I'll definitely go the snow tire route then.


----------



## Hfqkhal (Oct 14, 2018)

Just want to add one more point. If the road is icy then no tire would save you from slipping. To help one needs studs on them to help 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Bbb34 (Aug 5, 2010)

NoDubJustYet said:


> This time last year we drove back to Northern Virginia from Ottawa... Left Ottawa in the late afternoon after my sons' hockey game (championship win in the Bell Capital Cup for you youth hockey enthusiasts). We left the Canadian Tire Centre to find the Atlas encased in ice. So that was a fun start. Road conditions were complete crap. Heading towards the border crossing at Alexandria Bay, NY the roads were frozen over and those two crazy bridges were scary as hell.
> 
> Once we got into the States the stretch of I-81 from Watertown to just north of Syracuse were really sketchy. The Atlas and stock Contis never skipped a beat though. I even had to dodge a monstrous deer... no clue how I missed that damn thing, let alone keeping the car on the road.



Now just imagine all of that with great winter tires, as I said... night and day performance.
As I said earlier (with all due respect to all amazing drivers out there) AS season tires, yes, it can be done, but it's asking for trouble... daily.

These are roads I've been driving for past 25 years (including attending same tournament last several years... LOL), in addition to some very icy ones in Quebec and Vermont as well.
Last 6 years I did it all with RWD vehicle.

Winter tires and common sense, no matter what vehicle will get you through all of this with no issues.

I'm yet to "really" test Atlas and Nokian combo on really bad roads, but have no doubts, that's coming soon where I live.


----------



## NoDubJustYet (Mar 25, 2002)

Winter tires are great if you have an actual winter to deal with. One or two instances a season aren’t worth it when your fancy set of winter tires are getting wrecked in 45F highway driving.


----------



## greggmischenko (Mar 21, 2011)

Hfqkhal said:


> Just want to add one more point. If the road is icy then no tire would save you from slipping. To help one needs studs on them to help
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is no longer entirely true. With today's winter tires' advanced tread designs and compounds, even non-studded tires can provide significantly more grip on ice (over regular A/S tires). See TireRack's video comparing A/S to winter tires (non-studded) on pure ice:


----------



## samuelrh (Feb 4, 2017)

greggmischenko said:


> That is no longer entirely true. With today's winter tires' advanced tread designs and compounds, even non-studded tires can provide significantly more grip on ice (over regular A/S tires). See TireRack's video comparing A/S to winter tires (non-studded) on pure ice:


Absolutely. The difference is clear, even more so with a heavy vehicle. Studded tires can make sense in some climates (I love them), but winter studless tires are extremely good nowadays.


----------



## Hfqkhal (Oct 14, 2018)

I would like to see how they perform at 50 mph and above. Testing at 11 mph doesn’t give me confidence. Remember Tire Rack wants to sell tires. Again how are the winter tires going to perform on a highway will going at a much higher speed 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## samuelrh (Feb 4, 2017)

I was looking through my phone's pictures and found this. Figured I'd leave that here since I think it qualifies as "deep snow"!

It may not look like it, but that's a pretty steep hill. I backed in that spot without any issue.


----------



## greggmischenko (Mar 21, 2011)

Hfqkhal said:


> I would like to see how they perform at 50 mph and above. Testing at 11 mph doesn’t give me confidence. Remember Tire Rack wants to sell tires. Again how are the winter tires going to perform on a highway will going at a much higher speed
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Still more a function of tire compound. Studded tires can still provide improved traction/grip over studless snow/ice tires in certain conditions, but the larger benefit is recognized when changing from all-season tires to snow/ice tires (studs not necessary).

In the old days before there were advanced silica compounds in studless snow tires, yes, studs were more beneficial because the tires themselves did not grip well on snow/ice; the studs mainly provided all the traction. But with newer and improved tire compounds and tread designs, the benefit of studding is marginal in most driving conditions (of course dependent on location, vehicle, driver skill, etc.)


----------



## skydaman (Dec 16, 2005)

samuelrh said:


> I was looking through my phone's pictures and found this. Figured I'd leave that here since I think it qualifies as "deep snow"!
> 
> It may not look like it, but that's a pretty steep hill. I backed in that spot without any issue.
> 
> View attachment 67941


Looks good! I haven't been in "deep" snow yet only about 6" so far but the OEM 20" Pirellis seem to do a good job.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

NoDubJustYet said:


> Winter tires are great if you have an actual winter to deal with. One or two instances a season aren’t worth it when your fancy set of winter tires are getting wrecked in 45F highway driving.


That's why tire manufacturers offer All-weather tires, such as Nokian WR G4 SUV, Michelin CrossClimate (not the 2 yet in SUV form), etc.

Nokian WR G4 SUV shallow sipes by thisistan, on Flickr



Hfqkhal said:


> I would like to see how they perform at 50 mph and above. Testing at 11 mph doesn’t give me confidence. Remember Tire Rack wants to sell tires. Again how are the winter tires going to perform on a highway will going at a much higher speed
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How realistic is driving on ice (or packed snow) at 50 mph and above? Who actually does that, aside from Rally Car drivers with special spike tires and Nokian Test drivers when they are breaking speed records with their studded tires?


----------



## PZ (May 9, 2002)

Lots of people drive 50mph on packed snow. The problem is that many hit that on overpasses after the road has cleared and they go spinning out of control. I've driven 50mph on ice, but I would not advise it for most drivers.


----------



## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

PZ said:


> Lots of people drive 50mph on packed snow. The problem is that many hit that on overpasses after the road has cleared and they go spinning out of control. I've driven 50mph on ice, but I would not advise it for most drivers.


Driving 50 mph on packed snow (which resembles more like ice) is just asking for an accident.

Driving in the snow is more than driving in a straight line, there's some turning involved, the testors that test in Ivalo's ice racetrack don't hit 50 mph, maybe 30 mph tops, because there's more to a tire performance than straight line acceleration and braking. You might have to do an emergency reaction and if your tires are not made to handle lateral acceleration on ice, snow, slush, and packed snow, you're part of the accident ahead of you.









You can see in the snow handling test, the bloke isn't driving 50 mph or higher, even on studded tires. Mainly because he doesn't want a crash and damage the loaner vehicle.


----------

