# Beetle question(s) from a GTI owner



## Bkord123 (Feb 23, 2013)

Hi folks! I currently have a 2012 GTI Base model. I'm thinking of getting a 2013 Beetle R-Line. I was hoping for any opinions on how the R-Line compares in performance to the GTI. The only reviews I'm finding of the Beetle are of different trim lines, the the R.

The engine performance looks very similar to me. My biggest question is the handling. The GTI handles incredibly. I don't fly around turns, but how about the Beetle. The R-Line has a sport suspension. Any opinions out there?

Any other key differences that I might be overlooking? I'm studying the specs as we speak.

Brian


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

They are built on two different platforms so don't expect the beetle to handle like a gti because it won't. With that said, it's still a fun car and with a few small tweaks can be just as fun to drive.

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## Bkord123 (Feb 23, 2013)

drtechy said:


> They are built on two different platforms so don't expect the beetle to handle like a gti because it won't. With that said, it's still a fun car and with a few small tweaks can be just as fun to drive.
> 
> posted using tapatalk


Different platform. Interesting. Exact kind of info I'm looking for. I have my GTI tuned to stage 1 (APR). I imagine that's one of the tweaks you recommend?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Bkord123 said:


> Different platform. Interesting. Exact kind of info I'm looking for. I have my GTI tuned to stage 1 (APR). I imagine that's one of the tweaks you recommend?


Yea they're built on the jetta platform. Tune is always a good first tweak on any turbo car! 

I will mention this for ya though, pretty much all the aftermarket GTI parts fit, exhaust is probably one of the only ones that doesn't fit perfect, but there are plenty of beetle specific options for that.

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## PooLeArMor (Aug 13, 2008)

most after market parts from MKV, MKVI will fits on the 2012+ Beetle beside the Catback exhaust also the new 2014 R-Line got a new engine with more power than the old TSI engine.... so intake may not fit


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## oidoglr (Jan 26, 2009)

My two previous cars to my '13 R-Line Beetle was an '07 GTI followed up by an '08 R32. 

As far as handling goes, the Beetle R-lines or prior Turbos don't have quite as beefy a sway bar as GTIs come with from the factory (18 vs 21mm), but any MKV/VI GTI/GLI sway should bolt right up. I just picked up a stock GTI sway for cheap to hold me off for a bit, because I noticed that compared to my GTI and R32, my R-line has a bit more body roll. As other posters have said, most other MKV/VI parts should bolt up pretty much the same. Otherwise, they're essentially really cool looking GTI coupes. :thumbup:


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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

oidoglr said:


> My two previous cars to my '13 R-Line Beetle was an '07 GTI followed up by an '08 R32.
> 
> As far as handling goes, the Beetle R-lines or prior Turbos don't have quite as beefy a sway bar as GTIs come with from the factory (18 vs 21mm), but any MKV/VI GTI/GLI sway should bolt right up. I just picked up a stock GTI sway for cheap to hold me off for a bit, because I noticed that compared to my GTI and R32, my R-line has a bit more body roll. As other posters have said, most other MKV/VI parts should bolt up pretty much the same. Otherwise, they're essentially really cool looking GTI coupes. :thumbup:


yup, similar here, straight from an '08 .:R.. and the beetle stage 1 is 5 seconds faster around willow springs . amazing what shedding 500lbs will do to compensate for lack of awd.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

PooLeArMor said:


> most after market parts from MKV, MKVI will fits on the 2012+ Beetle beside the Catback exhaust also the new *2014 R-Line got a new engine with more power than the old TSI engine*.... so intake may not fit


What's the power difference between the R-line and the regular Turbo Beetle, if any?

Can anyone confirm whether the gear ratios in the manual Turbo and R-line are the same, and whether it's true that the Beetle manual tranny has taller gears than the GTI?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Bunnspeed said:


> What's the power difference between the R-line and the regular Turbo Beetle, if any?
> 
> Can anyone confirm whether the gear ratios in the manual Turbo and R-line are the same, and whether it's true that the Beetle manual tranny has taller gears than the GTI?


No power difference, Turbo was the early name, it later changed to R-line with a different front bumper. Yes manual transmission has taller gears than the gti

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## geminisign75 (Nov 29, 2006)

IMO would not go to the R-Line Beetle. I went from a 2011 GTI Autobahn to a 2012 Beetle Turbo with Sun/Nav/Sound. Big mistake. First, the GTI out handles the Beetle hands down. The power is way more refined in the GTI and the gearing is better in the GTI. For some reason going from 5th to 6th gear made very little difference in the Beetle. 

I had problems with the check engine light and fuel cap light multiple times with the Beetle, my leather seat ripped at around 5k miles. I owned this car for about six months/7K miles and bought another brand new GTI Autobahn and completley happy! What a difference.


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## Vwguy026 (May 1, 2013)

IMHO I drove the GTI before settling on the beetle and for me the GTI was fun but stiffer and to me was boring. Everyone has it and there's nothing unique. That's why I chose the beetle turbo, to me it was more fun hands down and no one expects it. It gets awesome gas mileage and it looks different and sets itself apart. 

Now I know the GTI had an awesome following and Its a pretty awesome hatchback. Now if given all the same potential the beetle would be Just as fast and handle just as good. However as we all know VW doesn't want to do dethrone their golden child which I feel is ridiculous but I can say without a doubt I would never given the opportunity go to a GTI or own one. Not that it isn't a good car or fast, just to "common" for my taste. Plus a lot of the GTI parts fit on the beetle..


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

For those of you who made the jump between GTI and Beetle, how do they compare for real world gas mileage? I'm assuming the Beetle has worse aero but I'm also wondering how much the taller gearing compensates for that, especially for you guys that do a lot of brisk highway commuting.

What mpg are you all getting? I'm especially curious to hear from the tuned guys.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Bunnspeed said:


> For those of you who made the jump between GTI and Beetle, how do they compare for real world gas mileage? I'm assuming the Beetle has worse aero but I'm also wondering how much the taller gearing compensates for that, especially for you guys that do a lot of brisk highway commuting.
> 
> What mpg are you all getting? I'm especially curious to hear from the tuned guys.


Coming from an FSI GTI I used to average about 28-30mpg, now with this one, as long as I don't put my foot down, I can average 32-34mpg

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## PooLeArMor (Aug 13, 2008)

Bunnspeed said:


> For those of you who made the jump between GTI and Beetle, how do they compare for real world gas mileage? I'm assuming the Beetle has worse aero but I'm also wondering how much the taller gearing compensates for that, especially for you guys that do a lot of brisk highway commuting.
> 
> What mpg are you all getting? I'm especially curious to hear from the tuned guys.




on my 6SP Stage 2 FSI GTI i got 18-20mpg the most since i drive 99% in local and traffic and i got about 200 miles on each tank,
on the Stock 12 TB DSG i got the same mpg also on the same route.


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## Bkord123 (Feb 23, 2013)

Two things I want to hear some opinions on. It's the throttle delay when pressing on the gas. I've read it everywhere. What's it like? Is it a problem? Over-stated? 

Also, with the 19s on there, I'm wondering if the ride is uncomfortable in it.


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## Carbon Steel (Sep 6, 2010)

Currently own both of them 2010 GTI and the 13 Turbo Beetle.


Drivng the DSG seems the same, i know nothing about the gearing in the trans or drive gearing.

Handling the GTI is superior, ie quicker more agile

Ride quality: Hands down Beetle on 19's is so comfortable, the GTI can be bone jarring.

Asthetics: Both are top notch.

I have the sunroof, nav in both, different but excellent.

Sound system, Fender system in the beetle vs the standard system in the GTI, the beetle is better due to the sub woofer.

Hood mechanism: GTI is superior with the automatic holding and compressor/rod mechanisim vs the beetle lifting and using the manual support

Solid Battery Box on the GTI vs the soft sided one on the beetle, GTI's is better.



Taking a long ride i prefer the beetle it is much more comfortable. But then i get in the GTI and i enjoy the better agility.

Gauges: Hands down the Beetle, asthectically the look great.

All the things that GTI owners mod/upgrade, in the interior: storage places, interior lights, boost gauges, carbon fiber trim etc. are all standard in the upgraded Beetle.

Bottom line, I like them both equally, enjoy the differences which for me is in the handling and ride.


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## Bkord123 (Feb 23, 2013)

Carbon Steel said:


> Currently own both of them 2010 GTI and the 13 Turbo Beetle.
> 
> 
> Drivng the DSG seems the same, i know nothing about the gearing in the trans or drive gearing.
> ...


Awesome post. I can see how I might prefer a less jarring ride in the Beetle. Something I'm still not used on in the GTI. Thanks for you info.


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## Bunnspeed (Apr 2, 2013)

Great info. :thumbup:

Which vehicle seems quieter at highway cruise? My MKV GTI has always seemed rather tinny and has suffered from excessive road, wind, and drivetrain noise. I'm wondering if the Beetle has better sound deadening, which is a big priority given the fact that I commute about 100 miles each day.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Bkord123 said:


> Different platform. Interesting. Exact kind of info I'm looking for. I have my GTI tuned to stage 1 (APR). I imagine that's one of the tweaks you recommend?


I have my 2012 Beetle APR Stag 2 tuned and yes it makes huge difference. Also the HSTuning RSR Performance Clutch made a huge difference as well. Car pulls like a mule on steroids. 
I used to have a GTI and overall like the Beetle a lot better. Out of the box the GTI does have better handling than the Beetle but with a few tweaks it can be made to handle almost as good. 
Just depends on what you use the car for.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> They are built on two different platforms so don't expect the beetle to handle like a gti because it won't. With that said, it's still a fun car and with a few small tweaks can be just as fun to drive.
> 
> posted using tapatalk


Actually, that isn't correct. The MK5 as well as the MK6 Golf/GTI is based on the same platform as the 2012/2013 Beetle. The PQ35 Platform. The MK7 2014 GTI is based on the NEW MQB Platform.

Seems I can't cut and paste into my msgs on Vortex any longer and I have to type real slow or it skips over letters. Anyway, here are all the VW vehicles based on the PQ35 platform:

Audi A3 MK2, Audi TT MK2, Volkswagen Touran, Volkswagen Caddy, SEAT Altea, Volkswagen Golf MK5/GTI/R32/Rabbit MK5, Volkswagen Golf MK6, Skoda Octavia Mk2, Volkswagen Golf Plus,
SEAT Toledo MK3, Volkswagen Jetta MK5, SEAT Leon Mk2, Volkswagen Tiguan, Volkswagen Scirocco, Skoda Yeti, Volkswagen Jetta MK6, Audi Q3 and of course the Volkswagen Beetle. 

Note: Some of these cars are not available in the US of A.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Bunnspeed said:


> For those of you who made the jump between GTI and Beetle, how do they compare for real world gas mileage? I'm assuming the Beetle has worse aero but I'm also wondering how much the taller gearing compensates for that, especially for you guys that do a lot of brisk highway commuting.
> 
> What mpg are you all getting? I'm especially curious to hear from the tuned guys.


APR Stage 2 Tune with Carbonio Air Intake an the APR downpipe. And RSR Performance Clutch. I am getting average of 25.5 MPG which is about a good 50/50 mix of city and highway driving. 
Straight highway going to Cincinnati I have gotten 31.2 mpg. Pretty close to what it is suppose to get.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

Bkord123 said:


> Two things I want to hear some opinions on. It's the throttle delay when pressing on the gas. I've read it everywhere. What's it like? Is it a problem? Over-stated?
> 
> Also, with the 19s on there, I'm wondering if the ride is uncomfortable in it.


Others may have experienced this mysterious "Rev Hang" but I haven't as of yet. It's not only on the Beetle's but also has been reported on the GTI's as well. 

Unless you special order the 19 inch Tornado Wheels you will probably end up with 18's. My car did come with the HID/LED headlights and the 19 inch wheels. They are as smooth as can be and
I love the looks. Also handle very nicely in the corners. 

No rough ride whatsoever.

Car runs quiet on the highway. Very well insulated and outside noise is at a minimum. Much improved over the older generation Beetle's.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> Actually, that isn't correct. The MK5 as well as the MK6 Golf/GTI is based on the same platform as the 2012/2013 Beetle. The PQ35 Platform. The MK7 2014 GTI is based on the NEW MQB Platform.
> 
> Seems I can't cut and paste into my msgs on Vortex any longer and I have to type real slow or it skips over letters. Anyway, here are all the VW vehicles based on the PQ35 platform:
> 
> ...


Ok so it may be the same "platform" per say, I probably used the wrong term, but underneath, they match more the jetta than the golf/gti. That's all I was trying to say

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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> Ok so it may be the same "platform" per say, I probably used the wrong term, but underneath, they match more the jetta than the golf/gti. That's all I was trying to say
> 
> posted using tapatalk


They all should be fairly similar except for very slight differences. Perhaps different exhaust lengths or other minor variations depending on drivetrain but the Platform is the same.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

IndyTTom said:


> They all should be fairly similar except for very slight differences. Perhaps different exhaust lengths or other minor variations depending on drivetrain but the Platform is the same.


The differences are the suspension, subframes, bushing densities, there's so much to list I don't know how they consider them the same platform. Not even the bcm's, ecu's, wiring, are all different. I mean does that just mean they use the same chassis or what? Different fuse boxes even lol, sorry I just keep remembering more and more differences lol..................................................... They do use the same abs module, there I found one in common I'm done lol.



Edit: pm me if you have a link to more details, otherwise I don't wanna thread jack about technicalities lol
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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

drtechy said:


> The differences are the suspension, subframes, bushing densities, there's so much to list I don't know how they consider them the same platform. Not even the bcm's, ecu's, wiring, are all different. I mean does that just mean they use the same chassis or what? Different fuse boxes even lol, sorry I just keep remembering more and more differences lol..................................................... They do use the same abs module, there I found one in common I'm done lol.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Of course suspension, ecu , etc. would be different between the different type of cars. Ie, Tiguan vs GTI = HUGE Differences. Same Platform basically just means the same Chassis. Wheel, ECU, suspension of course will differ.


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

IndyTTom said:


> Unless you special order the 19 inch Tornado Wheels you will probably end up with 18's. My car did come with the HID/LED headlights and the 19 inch wheels. They are as smooth as can be and
> I love the looks. Also handle very nicely in the corners.


FYI and just to clarify: As far as I know, the 19" wheel/xenon headlight stand-alone option is no longer available. In 2012 dealers could order base Turbos with the wheel/tire/headlight package, but I have yet to see a 2013 with this option. It looks like if you want the lights/wheels you have to get the R-Line with sunroof, sound, and navigation. If anyone finds anything different, let me know. :wave:


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## Carbon Steel (Sep 6, 2010)

Mine is the turbo, 19 xneon lights, nav, sunroof, a 13, fender sound system.


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## IndyTTom (Oct 23, 2007)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> FYI and just to clarify: As far as I know, the 19" wheel/xenon headlight stand-alone option is no longer available. In 2012 dealers could order base Turbos with the wheel/tire/headlight package, but I have yet to see a 2013 with this option. It looks like if you want the lights/wheels you have to get the R-Line with sunroof, sound, and navigation. If anyone finds anything different, let me know. :wave:


Yup, I have a 2012 Turbo Launch Edition which had the 19 inch Tornado wheels, the HID/LED lights and dash gauges. Everything else is pretty much base. Love the car and I wouldn't want it any other way. Glad it didn't come with that Glass Panoramic roof.


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## lmgarza85 (Mar 27, 2014)

I had an mkv GTI before I got the Beetle and to be honest, the Beetle seems like it is held back on purpose. If they had put the same parts in both ( sway bars, suspension, etc.) I really think the Beetle would handle better. Especially the tires. The hankooks that come stock on the Beetle are garbage. The only thing that I absolutely hate and have to try and change out is the transmission. The first 2 gears are really short, then after that they are ridiculously tall. If I am in 3rd and want to downshift to 2nd, I have to go down to like 15 mph so that it wont jump, but if I am in 3rd and doing around 25 mph the revs are too low and the gear is too tall so it is very slow to accelerate. I guess they couldn't have the Beetle competing with the GTI for the title of hot hatch, especially if a base Beetle turbo is cheaper than a base GTI coupe. I knew this would be the case going in, so it doesn't bother me too much because I know it will be really nice after I change a couple of things on it.


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## David9962000 (Feb 2, 2011)

lmgarza85 said:


> I had an mkv GTI before I got the Beetle and to be honest, the Beetle seems like it is held back on purpose. If they had put the same parts in both ( sway bars, suspension, etc.) I really think the Beetle would handle better. Especially the tires. The hankooks that come stock on the Beetle are garbage. The only thing that I absolutely hate and have to try and change out is the transmission. The first 2 gears are really short, then after that they are ridiculously tall. If I am in 3rd and want to downshift to 2nd, I have to go down to like 15 mph so that it wont jump, but if I am in 3rd and doing around 25 mph the revs are too low and the gear is too tall so it is very slow to accelerate. I guess they couldn't have the Beetle competing with the GTI for the title of hot hatch, especially if a base Beetle turbo is cheaper than a base GTI coupe. I knew this would be the case going in, so it doesn't bother me too much because I know it will be really nice after I change a couple of things on it.


The Unitronic DSG tune, fixed many problems for me, really worth it. 

http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ecu-tuning/Volkswagen-Beetle-20L-TSI-2011-2013-stage1dsg


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## Vwguy026 (May 1, 2013)

David9962000 said:


> The Unitronic DSG tune, fixed many problems for me, really worth it.
> 
> http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ecu-tuning/Volkswagen-Beetle-20L-TSI-2011-2013-stage1dsg


The only thing with this is can you have a Unitronic DSG tune with apr stage 1 and or 2 ECU tune?


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## David9962000 (Feb 2, 2011)

Vwguy026 said:


> The only thing with this is can you have a Unitronic DSG tune with apr stage 1 and or 2 ECU tune?


I don't think so, I have Unitronic for the engine tune too and I'm happy with it, the car hasn't lost any of its stock drivability. FYI APR is beta testing their DSG tune, so look for it in the next 60 days.


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## Vwguy026 (May 1, 2013)

Nice ok thanx for the info


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

David9962000 said:


> I don't think so, I have Unitronic for the engine tune too and I'm happy with it, the car hasn't lost any of its stock drivability. FYI APR is beta testing their DSG tune, so look for it in the next 60 days.


you can run separate ecu and dsg tune companies. I have plenty of friends with Apr ecu tunes and hpa dsg tunes running with no problems.

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## lmgarza85 (Mar 27, 2014)

David9962000 said:


> The Unitronic DSG tune, fixed many problems for me, really worth it.
> 
> http://www.unitronic-chipped.com/ecu-tuning/Volkswagen-Beetle-20L-TSI-2011-2013-stage1dsg


I have a manual. But it's cool that the DSG guys have a relatively easy fix.


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## Vwguy026 (May 1, 2013)

drtechy said:


> you can run separate ecu and dsg tune companies. I have plenty of friends with Apr ecu tunes and hpa dsg tunes running with no problems.
> 
> posted using tapatalk



Oh alright awesome, do they like the performance?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Vwguy026 said:


> Oh alright awesome, do they like the performance?


They love it, they're always blabbing about how great their dsg is lol

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