# Redline Oil



## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

I am thinking of putting Redline oil into my GLI. I had good luck with this oil on my last GLX. 
From their website:
Our 5W40 engine oil provides for quicker lubrication and easier start-up. Reduces turbo lag and provides more power and economy in a properly functioning engine, while providing 25% thicker oil films than a petroleum 5W40 or 10W40. Recommended for many late-model European vehicles and as a factory fill replacement in many newer VW, Porsche, and Mercedes Benz applications. 
That sounds good to me. Any suggestions or thoughts?
I think I have decided to go back to the Castrol Syntec that my dealer uses since I am about to hit 5,000 miles and have care-free maintenance. I don't necessarily think one is better than the other anymore and I think I would rather have the piece of mind that my warranty won't be voided.


_Modified by YellowRubi at 6:49 PM 9-19-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

[http:vwvortex.com]


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*

[http:vwvortex.com]


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

I think I will be doing this soon. I have only 650 miles on the GLI, but the car showed it was due to be changed in February. Is this ok to change or do I need to wait a certain amount of time??


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

You can change it whenever you want IMO. I don't know what time or oil change interval the February due date was from (e.g. one year, 3000 miles, or whatever).
Redline is a pretty agressive cleaner and the first and second changes it will likely free up oxidized metals and deposits. Most people wait until the 3rd oil change to look at UOAs on redline because by then most of the cleaning has taken place.
I suggest the 10W40 for maximum resistance to shear and use in summer months. The 5w40 is actually a bit thicker than 10w40 at 100 degrees C. The 10w30 is most likely a "straight 30 weight" oil that because of the POE base stocks doesn't need viscosity improvers and qualifies as a 10W30. I believe Amsoil ACD is similar in this regard (straight 30 weight synthetic that qualifies as a 10W30). So it should give excellent shear resistance (viscosity improvers are usually what shear first) and because it is thinner, it may give more power and better mpg. That is why I want to try it on my next oil change. Note that even though it is thinner it still has better high temperature high shear performance than most of the 502 5W40 oils. f.e. redline 10w30 HTHS = 3.8 cP while M1 0w40 = 3.7 cP


_Modified by saaber2 at 11:52 AM 6-13-2009_


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_You can change it whenever you want IMO. I don't know what time or oil change interval the February due date was from (e.g. one year, 3000 miles, or whatever).
Redline is a pretty agressive cleaner and the first and second changes it will likely free up oxidized metals and deposits. Most people wait until the 3rd oil change to look at UOAs on redline because by then most of the cleaning has taken place.
I suggest the 10W40 for maximum resistance to shear and use in summer months. The 5w40 is actually a bit thicker than 10w40 at 100 degrees C. The 10w30 is most likely a "straight 30 weight" oil that because of the POE base stocks doesn't need viscosity improvers and qualifies as a 10W30. I believe Amsoil ACD is similar in this regard (straight 30 weight synthetic that qualifies as a 10W30). So it should give excellent shear resistance (viscosity improvers are usually what shear first) and because it is thinner, it may give more power and better mpg. That is why I want to try it on my next oil change. Note that even though it is thinner it still has better high temperature high shear performance than most of the 502 5W40 oils. f.e. redline 10w30 HTHS = 3.8 cP while M1 0w40 = 3.7 cP

_Modified by saaber2 at 11:52 AM 6-13-2009_

So, I should use 10W40 instead of 5W40?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

I see you are in Dallas and I assume it is a little warm there in the summer ha ha. I would go with the 10W40 as it should be even more shear stable and would give max. thermal protection. Plus 10w40 still has Moly. That is one reason my next oil change will be either 10w30 or 10w40, to get the moly. I didn't talk about moly above but here are a couple articles to read up on it if you want:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...id=62
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly.html also click on the "more pictures and details" link on the bottom. This article refers to the old solid form of Moly I believe but now Mobil, redline, shaeffers etc. use the soluble form of moly. So the article is not completely accurate but is a good starting point.
I always ran the high moly redline oils in the saab turbos I mentioned before. It is a friction modifier and may give one more "last line of defense" to wear in extreme conditions. Redline only recently dropped moly from their 5w40 and 15w40 oils to help meet diesel cj-4 requirements.



_Modified by saaber2 at 12:35 PM 6-13-2009_


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_I have been running redline 5W40 since 5k miles in my 08 GTI and I noticed an immediate improvement in turbo spool up. Others have noticed this improvement on other turbo cars as well. 

I have heard I should wait until 5K to change my oil for the first time. I noticed you waited until 5K to put Redline in. Any specific reasons for that?


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

Although RL is a high quality product, its still worth noting that none of their products are VW 502 approved (or any other VW spec). saaber2 makes a compelling argument (and rightly so) for its use, however while still under factory warranty you need to be aware that its use could jeopardize future warranty claims.


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## corradokidg60 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: Redline Oil (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_Although RL is a high quality product, its still worth noting that none of their products are VW 502 approved (or any other VW spec). saaber2 makes a compelling argument (and rightly so) for its use, however while still under factory warranty you need to be aware that its use could jeopardize future warranty claims. 

This.... and neither are any of AMS' products, or Royal Purple's.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YellowRubi* »_I have heard I should wait until 5K to change my oil for the first time. I noticed you waited until 5K to put Redline in. Any specific reasons for that?

I ran the factory fill until 5k because there was not enough compelling evidence to change it out earlier than that and some of the sources I talked to said "do what the manufacturer suggests" 
Now that I have learned more, I think the strict adherence to "doing what the manufacturer suggests" is a mistake. If you look at the recently posted pictures of igen3's valves at 100k miles for example, they look unbelievably horrible and he ran mobil1 0w40 every 10k according to the manual. 








I also believe that not doing pro-active maintenance to eliminate or reduce these valve deposits from the pcv system would be a mistake, and VW does not suggest anything bout doing this proactive valve deposit maintenance.
The 40+ UOA database shows that no oil seems to be able to go over 5k in this engine. Therefore, I think the manufacturer really missed the mark with that 10k oil change interval.
Having said that however, Redline suggests not putting their oil in prior to 3k miles. The reason as I understand it is it may be so effective at reducing wear that it does not allow enough wear for break in.
Here is a good discussion on the difference of factory fill oil at 1100 miles and 5000 miles in the 2.0 FSI:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4147914


_Modified by saaber2 at 10:59 AM 6-15-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_Although RL is a high quality product, its still worth noting that none of their products are VW 502 approved (or any other VW spec). saaber2 makes a compelling argument (and rightly so) for its use, however while still under factory warranty you need to be aware that its use could jeopardize future warranty claims. 

This is a very good point. However such a warranty claim would have to be due to a failure of the oil which is not going to happen with a good oil, and indeed the UOA results show Biosyn, Redline, etc. as some of the top performers in this engine. Also their polar ester base and higher additive pack may well reduce secondary effects such as valve deposit buildup, wear on cam follower etc. which means that failure of other components due to using a non-502 could be much less likely compared to using a 502 oil. Note that Biosyn 5W40 was designed specifically to reduce fuel dilution effects and combat valve deposits in the Audi FSI engine.
Also anyone who has done any modifications, such as an intake, software, downpipe, catch-can, etc. would also be subject to the exact same "could jeopardize future warranty claims" stipulation. Also anyone who raced their car, etc. would be subject to that. 
So the choice of whether to live in the narrow box that could not possibly jeopardize warranty claims (no mods, no racing, no catch can or pcv bypass, etc.) or to do what they think is best for their car is up to the owner. But you are right in pointing that out because everyone should be aware that any mods, etc. could jeapordize their warranty.


_Modified by saaber2 at 10:08 AM 6-15-2009_


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
However such a warranty claim would have to be due to a failure of the oil which is not going to happen with a good oil

That's not necessarily true. We both know that outright oil failures are rare indeed. However VW could blame most any engine failure on your lack of proper maintenance. Not using an approved oil could be treated the same as a 20k OCI by VW with any failure blamed immediately on XXXX oil. It would be on you, the owner, to prove otherwise at that point.

_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_So the choice of whether to live in the narrow box that could not possibly jeopardize warranty claims (no mods, no racing, no catch can or pcv bypass, etc.) or to do what they think is best for their car is up to the owner. But you are right in pointing that out because everyone should be aware that any mods, etc. could jeopardize their warranty.


Agreed, many of us do all sorts of things that jeopardize our warranty in one way or another. I just believe that caveat needs to be mentioned when recommending a non approved oil. Then the owner can make an educated decision that's right for them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## corradokidg60 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_The 40+ UOA database shows that no oil seems to be able to go over 5k in this engine. Therefore, I think the manufacturer really missed the mark with that 10k oil change interval. 

What specifically are the oils not standing up to for even 5k miles?
Here's my Blackstone oil analysis for 40k miles worth of changes (4) - the last oil change shows metals in it because I later found out I had the dreaded HPFP/intake cam/cam follower wear issue.
















I do agree about the PCV and VW needing a catch can of some sort that will prevent oil from coming into the intake. 


_Modified by corradokidg60 at 11:25 AM 6-15-2009_


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (corradokidg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corradokidg60* »_
This.... and neither are any of AMS' products, or Royal Purple's.

Looks like all the good ones are not VW approved.








I'm sure I will still go with Redline though.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (corradokidg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corradokidg60* »_What specifically are the oils not standing up to for even 5k miles?
Here's my Blackstone oil analysis for 40k miles worth of changes (4) - the last oil change shows metals in it because I later found out I had the dreaded HPFP/intake cam/cam follower wear issue.









Looking at all UOAs in the database, oils sheared pretty bad in general and for most flashpoint is quite low. Only 4 UOAs total stayed within grade out of about 40 UOAs.
Fuel dilution is evident in your UOAs as the oil has sheared out of grade in all samples and all samples show manganese which is likely evidence of fuel dilution. Also the 9k and 30k samples have a depressed flashpoint although not as bad as many of the UOAs in the database where we see as low as 300 degrees and many around 335-350 degrees. As you may know, Blackstone doesn't measure fuel directly but calculates it based on flashpoint depression and they only show fuel in the final sample.
If we assume that the elevated lead and iron numbers that occurred after 9k miles are due only to a failing cam follower, your results don't look that bad compared to the total of UOAs in the database. But of course a shorter OCI would likely produce less shear and higher flashpoint, and perhaps lower metals but it's impossible to tell anything with the metals with the cam follower wear. Having TAN would be helpful also. The TBN looks really good. 
Perhaps an oil with stronger anti-wear additives would have protected your cam follower better. It's hard to say definitively because this cam follower is a poor design but typically 1200 ppm zinc is the recommended minimum level for "flat tappet" engines (the fuel pump follower which wore out is a flat tappet).
Have you had a chance to get a UOA after the cam follower was replaced? It would be great to see the lead and iron come back down. It is interesting that your cam follower showed up in the UOA as another poster (can't recall who off the top of my head) reported that his UOAs showed no indication of the follower failure. Perhaps your eroded away more gradually and his broke suddenly? Who knows, but it is interesting.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*

You guys know too much about oil!!







I just wanted to know if Redline was a good oil.


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## corradokidg60 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YellowRubi* »_You guys know too much about oil!!







I just wanted to know if Redline was a good oil. 

Easy version:
Yes it is, no it's not approved. Does it matter? If your powertrain warranty matters to you, use an approved oil, if not use RedLine.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (corradokidg60)*

Same diff. as running your APR stage 1. Bcze said it the best IMO, that the car owner should be aware that his modifications, non 502 approved oil etc. may impact the warranty.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_Agreed, many of us do all sorts of things that jeopardize our warranty in one way or another. I just believe that caveat needs to be mentioned when recommending a non approved oil. Then the owner can make an educated decision that's right for them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I totally agree.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*

I'm not sure how they would be able to tell what type of oil I used??


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## corradokidg60 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YellowRubi* »_I'm not sure how they would be able to tell what type of oil I used??

Proof of oil purchase (receipts of work done or of oil and filters), I guess they could be nazis about it and do an oil analysis.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (corradokidg60)*

Do all car manufacturers have a list of oils that are approved? I don't think I have ever heard much about that kind of thing. After getting screwed by Chrysler on warranty work, I don't want the same to happen with VW over oil.


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## corradokidg60 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

I think most makers have at least one engine with a specific oil needs....
The complete 502, 505.01, and 504/507 list world-wide:
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/med...e.pdf


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YellowRubi* »_Do all car manufacturers have a list of oils that are approved? I don't think I have ever heard much about that kind of thing. After getting screwed by Chrysler on warranty work, I don't want the same to happen with VW over oil. 

All the German manufacturers have their own specs. US & Japanese generally use API spec unless its high performance car, like Corvette ZR-1 or Nissan GT-R.
And yes, all they have to do is ask for your maintenance records if for some reason they're in question. No need to test a thing. If you can't prove you poured in an approved oil at the recommended intervals (or shorter) things could get ugly. However, it should be noted that the odds of a failure happening that makes a dealer or VW look into your maintenance records is pretty small. But it does exist.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_
All the German manufacturers have their own specs. US & Japanese generally use API spec unless its high performance car, like Corvette ZR-1 or Nissan GT-R.
And yes, all they have to do is ask for your maintenance records if for some reason they're in question. No need to test a thing. If you can't prove you poured in an approved oil at the recommended intervals (or shorter) things could get ugly. However, it should be noted that the odds of a failure happening that makes a dealer or VW look into your maintenance records is pretty small. But it does exist.

I figured not much chance of anything bad happening and the only reason why I asked is because of my run-in with Chrysler. However, I actually lifted the vehicle and I could see how that would cause some issues. Redline is better than most oils so I wouldn't expect many problems.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

Redline said I needed to wait at least 1500 miles for all the seals to seat properly or all the seats to seal properly before changing to Redline.







Sound right?


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## 4ePikanini (Aug 29, 2007)

*FV-QR*

good read here regarding oil that is not VW approved
http://www.4x4community.co.za/...36591


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (fourie_marius)*

I don't know if I trust the dealership to do my oil changes since when I bought the car new it had a Jiffy Lube sticker on it. It sounds like they didn't do the oil change and I surely wouldn't allow Jiffy Lube to touch my GLI.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YellowRubi* »_Redline said I needed to wait at least 1500 miles for all the seals to seat properly or all the seats to seal properly before changing to Redline.







Sound right?

I would follower their advice. Those guys know what they are doing. Roy Howell, Redline's chemist used to be the head chemist at Lubrizol as I understand it. Lubrizol makes the additives for numerous racing teams and oils such as Joe Gibbs, Brad Penn, Amsoil, and many more. I know Mr. Howell is very well respected in the "Tribologist" community.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: Redline Oil (saaber2)*

What oil filter should I use with the Redline oil? I believe the shop I am using uses Xengst, Mann and Mahle filters.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Redline Oil (YellowRubi)*

I would just use the OEM filter. When I buy from vw dealer it is Mann. But I think Hengst is also OEM. and I wouldn't doubt if Mahle is too. And even Fram, although not offically OEM I suppose, is visually identical in every way (as discussed on the oil filter thread). So these may well be all made in the same factory.


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## mekelbreg88 (Jul 13, 2009)

mobil1 oil isnt wat its hyped up to be
i use mobil1 oil filter & AMSOIL 5w40


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (mekelbreg88)*

I have 1700 miles on my GLI and I am changing to Redline on Friday. The seals should be seated by now correct?


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## corradokidg60 (May 14, 2002)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

*shrug* most people notice incremental fuel mileage increasing for the first 5k or so.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YellowRubi* »_I have 1700 miles on my GLI and I am changing to Redline on Friday. The seals should be seated by now correct?

I would go by what redline says as far as how long to wait before changing factory fill. On there website they say 3000 miles which I assume is just a generalization for all cars. Let us know if you notice any difference in spool up. The 5w40 has a high HTHS so it is really shear stable. I am thinking of trying the Redline 10W30 as a test to see if I can get increased mpg while maintaining adequate protection. Redline's 10W30 has higher High Temperature High Shear viscosity than many 502 40 weight oils. I have a feeling the 30 weight may be a one-time test however as it is really hard for me to leave that very high level of protection of the RL 5W40.


_Modified by saaber2 at 9:11 PM 7-15-2009_


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
I would go by what redline says as far as how long to wait before changing factory fill. On there website they say 3000 miles which I assume is just a generalization for all cars. Let us know if you notice any difference in spool up. The 5w40 has a high HTHS so it is really shear stable. I am thinking of trying the Redline 10W30 as a test to see if I can get increased mpg while maintaining adequate protection. Redline's 10W30 has higher High Temperature High Shear viscosity than many 502 40 weight oils. I have a feeling the 30 weight may be a one-time test however as it is really hard for me to leave that very high level of protection of the RL 5W40.

_Modified by saaber2 at 9:11 PM 7-15-2009_

I did talk to a guy at Redline and he said as long as I have gone through all the RPM's in all the gears then everything should be ok. I hope so!


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

Yeah I think variability during break in is the key, especially using engine compression braking. Seems like the ones that are driven pretty hard during break in are fairing the best in terms of oil consumption but that is just an impression from everything I've read. If you look at the chart you can make a guess where break in wear seems to diminish, essentially where the slope is much less. Looks like around 6-8k ish. In reality there are lots of levels of "break in" however including the first few minutes (seconds?) done before you ever get the car and the term is tossed around without any real definition. BTW, my car's MFD said over 11.5 hours of time when there was only 12 miles on the car. Don't know what that means exactly (was it running? just ignition on?) but that's a long time.










_Modified by saaber2 at 9:31 PM 7-15-2009_


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*

Do you think I should wait any longer or am I pushing the envelope here?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

Hard to say. I am guessing when I say I think 3k is totally fine as vw recommends 5k. My guess is there is probably not going to be much diff between 3k and 1700. The positive about changing early is you get rid of metal etc in the FF oil. The negative is you need some break in wear to occur. Where is the magic "sweet spot"? How much does fuel dilution factor in? Check out some of the factory fill UOAs if you want here http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...34379 I can send you the database if you cant read it at that link.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*

I wish I knew what all that meant.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

the biggest concern with break in is seating the rings properly... and this is accomplished literally in the first 100 miles of driving or so. after 500 miles, all the reciprocating pieces should be snuged up nicely. 
i performed my first oil change at 1.5k miles, and there was a HUGE amount of metallic flakes and other goodies that came out of the oil pan. 1.7k is certainly a good time for the first oil change. 
btw... my car burns ZERO oil because of my break in technique and early first oil change. i got roasted for suggesting an early oil change on the forums because "it is not in the owners manual." IMO, it is one of the most critical steps in promoting engine longevity...
Here's my thread if you are interested:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3833155


_Modified by rhouse181 at 11:07 AM 7-16-2009_


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_the biggest concern with break in is seating the rings properly... and this is accomplished literally in the first 100 miles of driving or so. after 500 miles, all the reciprocating pieces should be snuged up nicely. 
i performed my first oil change at 1.5k miles, and there was a HUGE amount of metallic flakes and other goodies that came out of the oil pan. 1.7k is certainly a good time for the first oil change. 
btw... my car burns ZERO oil because of my break in technique and early first oil change. i got roasted for suggesting an early oil change on the forums because "it is not in the owners manual." IMO, it is one of the most critical steps in promoting engine longevity...
Here's my thread if you are interested:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3833155

_Modified by rhouse181 at 11:00 AM 7-16-2009_

This how I thought about it too, but I don't know much about oil or cars for that matter.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

I found a shop that I trust and they did my oil change for me for $25 including a new filter. I will never do my own oil if that is the price I have to pay. I will report back if I notice anything, but I am sure they will be all placebo effect.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

That is amazingly cheap. Was it an OEM filter? Usually the filter alone is around $15.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*

Yup, it was an OEM filter. I thought it was cheap too, but I watched them and didn't question it either.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

# days in and the turbo seems to be smoother or spooling up faster. Could be placebo or the fact that it was 15 degrees cooler in Dallas and 30% humidity as opposed to 80%.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

On my car I noticed an immediate change when going from the factory fill 30 weight to the redline 5w40, which is a high 40 weight. With the increase in viscosity, one would expect a reduction in turbo spool up, but it is the opposite. On my dsg car, I had to adjust my driving a bit to get used to having more power sooner after changing to redline. Must be the polar POE base oils. I'm considering going to redline 10W30 on my next change as an experiment to see if I can improve mpg but still get great protection.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*

I think I notice a little more kick. I will see if it helps with gas mileage. I just feel good knowing it is in there.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

Your mileage may actually go down a tad because it is a much thicker and stouter oil (HTHS viscosity of 4.6 vs. who knows, maybe 3.7 cP for factory fill?). So that is a huge increase in shear stability, film strength, protection, and thermal stability but I wouldn't expect the same mpg as a 30 weight (if it was that would be amazing). That's one of the thoughts I had about testing redline 10W30, the mpg may well go up compared to the 30 weight factory fill because of redline's polar esters and friction modifiers such as Moly Dithiocarbamates but have increased protection compared to 502 oils.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

hmm... might buy me some redline. sounds very convincing.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_Your mileage may actually go down a tad because it is a much thicker and stouter oil (HTHS viscosity of 4.6 vs. who knows, maybe 3.7 cP for factory fill?). So that is a huge increase in shear stability, film strength, protection, and thermal stability but I wouldn't expect the same mpg as a 30 weight (if it was that would be amazing). That's one of the thoughts I had about testing redline 10W30, the mpg may well go up compared to the 30 weight factory fill because of redline's polar esters and friction modifiers such as Moly Dithiocarbamates but have increased protection compared to 502 oils.

IMO, a 1-2mpg increase in overall efficiency is not worth the loss of protection and "durability" from the 40 weight oil... seems like the 5w40 holds up nicely in the 2.0T and actually performs its duty well, but i guess we will see how the 10w30 performs. certainly would expect a shorter change interval for the lighter viscosity, therefore more frequent expenses to cover oil changes, and in the long run you will spend more money on oil than you saved on gas. 
An adjustment in driving style would yield larger gains in mpg than changing your oil. but then again, you probably bought a GTI because you enjoy the performance driving characteristics. romp the right pedal and enjoy the boost because that is what you bought the car for! pay the extra $2.55 for the addition gallon of shell 93 per tank that you burn up ripping around town. if you are going for absolute fuel mileage, buy a TDI


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (rhouse181)*

I went with 5W-40. I didn't change to Redline for mileage. I wish I could get 20mpg, but my driving is 95% stop/go city never even getting to 3rd gear. For that reason alone, I think Redline will be the most beneficial because of its protective qualities. Only time will tell how well it works, but the turbo seems to like it better!


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

u cant break 20 with that kind of driving?
i get that kinda stuff quite a bit but I find it hard to get below 22 even with my AC on.
do u jack rabbit or slowly roll like me?
hell, unless I wanna have fun, I drive like a grandma. lol


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (Krieger)*

I get around 17-19. I have an APR Stage 1 so no I don't drive like a grandma.







I bought the GLI after driving a Jeep for 3 years so I am like a kid in a candy shop every time I get in the car!!


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

One trick you may want to experiment with is "pulse and glide". From a stop, near-maximum acceleration through the gears to about 5-10 mph over the speed limit then coast in a pretty high gear, and repeat. 
However when you coast, don't let off the throttle completely. If you let off completely you will have engine breaking. If you give it the tiniest amount of throttle you will be coasting without the engine drag. If you see - - - on the MFD you are using no fuel but you have engine braking. If you see 102 or 85 or 67 whatever mpg on the MFD you know you are essentially coasting without engine braking.
I do it sometimes just for something to do and can generally get up to about 4-6 mpg better this way. This is for a DSG car. For the manual guys you can coast in neutral also if you want. 



_Modified by saaber2 at 4:27 PM 7-23-2009_


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_One trick you may want to experiment with is "pulse and glide". From a stop, maximum acceleration through the gears to about 5-10 mph over the speed limit then coast in a pretty high gear, and repeat. 
However when you coast, don't let off the throttle completely. If you let off completely you will have engine breaking. If you give it the tiniest amount of throttle you will be coasting without the engine drag. If you see - - - on the MFD you are using no fuel but you have engine braking. If you see 102 or 85 or 67 whatever mpg on the MFD you know you are essentially coasting without engine braking.
I do it sometimes just for something to do and can generally get up to about 4-6 mpg better this way. This is for a DSG car for the manual guys you can use neutral also. 

_Modified by saaber2 at 4:26 PM 7-23-2009_

MPG is not a huge priority for me, but it would be nice to see 20! I got 11 mpg on my Jeep so with having to put premium in it, I figure it is about a wash. I only drive 600-700 miles a month so great gas mileage does not apply to me.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: (YellowRubi)*

im stage 1 too. lol
unless i have the need for speed, im watching my MPG like a hawk.
my highest MPG was 41 MPG (I have a pic too! nobody believed me till i took it.) in medium traffic on the way to work.
was 81 degrees F, and I had just washed my car and the intercooler was nice and wet... I could have gotten more if I didnt try to pass everyone who cut in front of me.
I love how this car is capable of so much power, yet can get such good mileage if u drive it right.


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## YellowRubi (Apr 12, 2009)

*Re: (Krieger)*

I'm sure if I drove on the highway ever, I could get 25MPG which would be awesome, but I don't care because I have the best of both worlds. Decent gas mileage, great power for the money and lots of fun!!


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_was 81 degrees F, and I had just washed my car and the intercooler was nice and wet... 

Very interesting, have you seen this before? I mean increased mpg with wet intercooler?
I used to hook up water misters to spray on the outside of saab turbo intercoolers. It is ridiculously easy to do and you would get huge power gains on hot days. It made a huge difference on those cars as their small intercoolers would get heat soaked easily. The incoming "charge" air can be massively cooled via this method. If you have ever poured water on the radiator of an overheating car and watch it instantly cool down, you know what I mean. The cooling from evaporating water is tremendous.
You can even hook them up so that they shoot onto the intercooler only above a certain psi of boost by using a $30 pressure sensor. That saves you having to fill up the water tank so often. Also because it is shooting only on the outside of the intercooler, it is pretty benign as far as causing unintended other effects.
Maybe I will rig one of these up to try it out. I just used a saab wiper washer bottle with integrated pump before. Would be easy to hook up for a test. hmmm...


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
Very interesting, have you seen this before? I mean increased mpg with wet intercooler?
I used to hook up water misters to spray on the outside of saab turbo intercoolers. It is ridiculously easy to do and you would get huge power gains on hot days. It made a huge difference on those cars as their small intercoolers would get heat soaked easily. The incoming "charge" air can be massively cooled via this method. If you have ever poured water on the radiator of an overheating car and watch it instantly cool down, you know what I mean. The cooling from evaporating water is tremendous.
You can even hook them up so that they shoot onto the intercooler only above a certain psi of boost by using a $30 pressure sensor. That saves you having to fill up the water tank so often. Also because it is shooting only on the outside of the intercooler, it is pretty benign as far as causing unintended other effects.
Maybe I will rig one of these up to try it out. I just used a saab wiper washer bottle with integrated pump before. Would be easy to hook up for a test. hmmm...

yea did this too on my SPG... but i would always mix a little isopropyl alcohol or something in there too to increase the evaporative efficiency


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*

yeah, i see power and MPG improvements all the time from doing it.
I tried to rig something up on my brother's boosted S2000 and we totally failed. lol, it was pretty much a water pump in a container that would pump the liquid down this rubber line we had and mist onto the intercooler... not enough liquid to make any difference... idk if it was the design or what.
if u can rig something up for our cars, take pics. i LOVE spraying my intercooler down with water and alcohol on hot days and feeling all the extra power... untill it dries up... lol
it's funny how it gets to be like 100 F and ur car gets so slow, but then it starts to rain and she wakes right up. I wonder why Audi didnt make a setup from the factory... it's free power...
idk if i wanna spray my stock IC or get a FMIC and make a setup for it.


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## redeye (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: (corradokidg60)*

a little ot, but what do you guys think of lucas products, namely the synthetic oil stabilizer?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (redeye)*

Stay away form additives. Spend the money on good oil instead. A good oil already has all the additives it needs and in the right amounts. Here is what the lucas crap does to your oil.
I don't know how that lucas company even stays in business. Amsoil tested their synthetic 10W30 and it showed over 40% NOACK!!! That means that 40% of the oil by weight would boil off at 150C. That is completely nuts! Most good oils are below 11% NOACK with oils like redline and some Amsoils at 6%. 










_Modified by saaber2 at 7:09 AM 7-25-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (Krieger)*

Has anyone used one of these intercooler mister controllers? Looks pretty cool. can spray from one 30 second long spray to 1 spray every 7 seconds. Also sprays above a certain rpm.
http://www.group5motorsport.co....aspx
So one of these controllers, a mister, some 1/4 inch hose and a windshield washer tank with integrated pump from a junkyard would do it. i wonder how that controller measures rpm though, that may be a problem.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

that tester thing showing the lucas foaming up was built by the company to specifically test their oil well and no others. wasnt it on the forums that alot of people knew it was rigged?
Ive used Lucas synth and honestly, it WAY lowered the amount of oil I burned. I usually go thri half a quart to a full quart every 1-2k miles. With that stuff in there, i didnt burn but 1/4 of a quart by 5k miles.
on to the sprayer:
Im thinking of a similar setup to what u described, but insteal of a controller, I want to just use a thermostat or a switch I can turn on and off when I want to cool it all down. I'm sure I could rig up a small coolant bottle off to a side somewhere, run some hose to it, use a generic circular wand, and have the pump only get electricity when I flip a switch in the cabin, or a thermostat senses a certain temp.
id REALLY like to do a therm, but idk how to.
would be cool if we could make up a simple kit and help people who want to do this kind of stuff but don't want to spend a ton of money or they don't want to custom make one themselves.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (Krieger)*

An example of a simple kit might be:
1) Wiper fluid tank with integrated pump from a saab or other car (from junkyard) - $30?
2) Pressure switch from ebay (can be set to turn on above a specific boost level) - $30
3) 1/4 tubing - $3
4) Wire for pump/switch -$3
5) Agricultural spray nozzle from any farm and ranch store (higher flow and heavier droplet is better than very fine mist) - $4
6) Cooler intake air temps for more power and better mpg - priceless








Or I suppose if you wanted to just test it out you could skip the tank and the pressure switch and just disconnect the rear washer line and run a line from there to the mister. This would use your existing washer tank as the source of water and you would squirt the intercooler the same way you would normally squirt the back window. That would cost almost nothing and be easy to do to test how effective it is. I used to run saab turbo intercooler misters this way (toggle switch control) before I automated them with the pressure switch.


_Modified by saaber2 at 6:57 AM 7-26-2009_


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## meb58 (Jun 22, 2009)

i know we're off topic...saaber2, the mini with Xenon lights as two washer fluid tanks. Many folks use this one for IC cooling...very effective on those hot, humid days.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (meb58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *meb58* »_i know we're off topic...saaber2, the mini with Xenon lights as two washer fluid tanks. Many folks use this one for IC cooling...very effective on those hot, humid days.

Cool! That would make it easy. Just drove a mini (base) today for the heck of it (a friend has zip car and you can rent a mini for $10/hour with free gas). I love that low, tight mini handling. Have you looked at the clubman, is it much bigger inside?


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## GodSquadMandrake (Feb 17, 2004)

*Re: (corradokidg60)*

Hmm interesting. I'm going to try the Redline oil too. I have heard most people recommend the German Castrol or Motul. The Redline is cheaper than the motul and the facts presented here are very compelling. I am a huge believer in their MTL gear oil so that's why I don't hesitate to try their engine oil too. I've been doing Blackstone oil reports at every oil change so it will be interesting to compare the differences and at least I will have some factual data if it is better at preventing wear and shear protection like it says. So far I've been running Mobil 1 European formula 0w40 (alaska cold!).


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## Vwintraining (Dec 20, 2016)

saaber2 said:


> [http:vwvortex.com]


Hi there saaber2! I just had a quick question. And I know this thread was made years ago. So I apologize for opening it back up unnecessarily. Anyway, I drive a MK6 GTI with 57k miles on it. It's a daily driver. I drive about 20 miles to work every day in the Pacific Northwest. So pretty mild climate. I'm looking into Redline 5W-40. Would you recommend this for my car? I've been juggling this in my head for the past few weeks 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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