# W12 engine/transmission removal for starter replacement



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hello all,

Happy New Year to all of you!

My 2005 W12 now has about 91,000 miles. I bought her 5 years ago with 41,000 miles. I am a nut about maintenance and always want everything working perfectly, so she's had every conceivable maintenance item done, every VW recall completed, since the "on second thought it's not lifetime fluid" bulletin about the transmission fluid, it has been flushed religously every 20,000 miles, etc., etc., etc.!

Anyway, the starter motor (not solenoid) on my W12 has gone bad. Yesterday my trusted Phaeton tech began the lengthy process of dropping the engine and transmission, in order to gain access to the starter. As a preventive measure, while the engine is down and we have this opportunity to get to other systems that would otherwise be out of reach, we plan to replace/repair anything else we find that looks suspect or is nearing the end of its life. Over the years, I've read other threads here suggesting what some of those things should be:

I've read that there used to be a knee-jerk reaction to replace the water pump and possibly the alternator, but others have said that is "old school" thinking and no longer applies. Comments?

I already replaced the thermostat a couple of years ago, so that's not an issue.

I live in South Florida, where there is a quite a bit of salt air, and there have been a few posts over the past couple of years about corroded power steering lines. So, I'm thinking this might be a good time to replace some of those. Comments?

Also, if there are any hoses or belts that are otherwise inaccessible, I would like to replace them, but I don't know which ones, if any, fall into this category.

Thanks very much in advance for your input.

Best regards,
Ron M.

P.S. - As much as I LOVE this car, I've never owned a car for this long (5 years), that is this old (almost 8 years old), or had this many miles (91,000), and my wife is trying to get me to buy something brand new like a BMW, Audi, Lexus, etc. So, I've taken a few test drives in the past month and must say that nothing even touches the quality or luxury of my Phaeton, but I must admit I am drawn to some of the new technologies (I'm a gadget freak), and I do find appealing the concept of only visitng the service department when it's time for an oil change or tire rotation!  So, once the starter repair and preventive maintenance items are completed, I *might* consider selling my baby, and thought all of you should be the first to know. If you think you might be a potental buyer, please send me a private message and I will put you on the list of "firsts to contact" *if* I decide to take that route. (Moderators, have no fear that if I do decide to offer the car for sale, that I will follow protocol and do so in the Phaeton Classifieds section).


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Hi Ron,

Although certainly not definitive, as I have not done it yet, and against the popular opinion- it appears from the following link that replacement of the W12 starter may be done without removal of the engine & trans.

http://elsaweb.spaghetticoder.org/doc/V.en-GB.3D-EA-EA/600222/2


Scroll halfway down to the "Vehicles with 12-cylinder engines"

Yes, a bunch of stuff is moved out of the way on the bottom of the car that sounds as if surrounding the starter (hoses, brackets, horns and 1 engine mount) but that is still WAAAY less work than pulling the engine/trans.

Note the pictures as well.

I would show this to your mechanic. I'm of the belief that any job that has to be done is better off less invasive as possible.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Summarized-

Vehicles with 12-cylinder engines

Disconnect batteries 
Support engine 
Remove insulation trays
Drain coolant
Drain engine oil.
Remove oil pipe from sump.
Remove subframe.
Remove front right wheel housing liner.
Remove fluid reservoir for window and headlight cleaning system.
Remove horn.
Remove front right exhaust pipe with catalyst.
Unbolt ATF line from gearbox oil cooler.
Unbolt oil filter housing.
Remove right front heat shield and engine mount.
Remove retainer for coolant and engine oil lines.


All the rest is removal of the starter itself (plastic cap, wires, mounting bolts)

and then the best part of all VW manuals-

Installing: Installation is carried out in the reverse order 


Honestly, that doesn't sound much different than the valve body replacement job we did in my garage. Much less involved than the V8 timing belt and water pump, that is for sure. :thumbup::beer:


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Ouch! Thanks very much Josh, but I'm afraid it may be too late. My tech began the job yesterday, and I believe he will be ready to drop the engine/transmission assembly tomorrow morning. He's done the job on other W12's before, so I am not too worried about him putting it all back together without causing new problems, but this less invasive option you suggest would probably have been a much easier and less expensive way to go. I'll show him the print-out in the morning, but I think he's already committed to the original path. Sorry I didn't post my questions sooner, but due to technical difficulties, I haven't been able to post for a few weeks, and only last night was I able to once again resume posting.

So, since it's likely that the engine/transmission will be removed, any suggestions of other items to address while it's all out? Thanks again.

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Just do a visual inspection of the hoses & lines for corrosion, etc.

Good luck. :beer:


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## seawind3000 (Sep 17, 2010)

Hi Ron. I'm going to be in Ft Lauderdale from the 19th to the 22nd of Feb. I would love to see your Phaeton. Mine is the only Phaeton I've ever seen, and it's a V8, a W12 would be a real treat.
I'll even bring the beer.

Mike


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Mike,

Sounds good! Looking forward to meeting you in February. :thumbup:

Hi Josh,

Thanks again for your input. As I suspected, my tech had already lowered the engine, so unfortunately it was too late to suggest the abbreviated method of accessing the starter. At least my extended warranty company is paying for the job 

Also, with the engine dropped, we examined all other visible systems and parts (as you suggested), and everything looks in great condition, with the exception of the power steering pressure line, which shows enough corrosion (at the same or similar locations as mentioned in this thread :http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4391639-Power-Steering-Line-Failure-(corrosion)-TOC-done ) to make me take preventive action and replace it now while it's easy to do.

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## seawind3000 (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks Ron, I'll msg you when it gets closer and I'll have my hotel info. We are going on the Oasis Of the Seas for a working cruise ( second trip on the Oasis) 

Mike


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## tubafone (Jun 16, 2017)

*thanks for saving me $1000*

Your instructions were great. Certainly less intrusive than pulling and engine. Although still a lot of work, it saved me about $1000 to do it this way. I was surprised that there weren't any starters in the country and that VW says they hadn't sold one here in over a year.


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## cjcalvert (Mar 8, 2007)

*W12 Starter Replacement Without Dropping Engine*

Resurrecting a very old thread, but I wanted to see if anyone had the starter replacement steps without dropping the power train as mentioned above. The link provided is long gone, and it would be great to have the full detail posted here. Fortunately I don't need it now, but it is only a matter of time before someone will need it.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

See post 3?


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