# Anyone use SHINE RACING SERVICE shop in MA?



## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

Hey all. Just curious if anyone had used SRS before and what their experience was. I met these guys today for the first time and they seem like a knowledgable friendly bunch. I'm considering having them do some work my 20th AE GTI.

Also, if anyone has a Golf/GTI 4 with SRS street suspension, please PM me.

Thanks! :thumbup:


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## apexT (Sep 2, 2008)

from what I've heard they have been involved with racing VW's for years. I think they make some of there own parts I have shine racing springs in my scirocco, but im not sure if its the same company


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## gtidaddy (Sep 18, 2004)

Dick shine is good people.have known him for years.
as for your rocco springs yes they are the same. SRS is shine racing service


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## nasty_VW_habit (Oct 13, 1999)

Dick is a real gem, I miss my visits to his shop and seeing him at the track. Back in late 90's I had them prep my 91 GLI for AutoX and Track Day events. The car was amazing. 
I'm actually in market now for 20th or R32 and need to get up to speed on what SRS has been up to with the newer cars. With dick it's always about performance - not looks or stance. :thumbup:


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

They tend to build a decent street handling kit, however if its of concern to you, be prepared to have your car raised significantly.


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## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

rex_racer said:


> They tend to build a decent street handling kit, however if its of concern to you, be prepared to have your car raised significantly.


Thanks rex. I've heard that, and it sounds like the front will come up an inch or so and the back stay about the same (with the 20th height sitting 3cm lower than normal GTI already). This reverse rake is what I'm a little concerned about. I haven't seen it in person or driven it yet, which is why I'm asking around. I def need to see it in person before making any choices.

The 20th height isn't super low, and I know it's actually a bit lower than the idea height for maximum MK IV suspension geometry, but I'm wondering if I only need 8/10 and not 10/10 because I don't track the car, is there a spring out there that's the same height as 20th/337 but just stiffer and match it to a Bilstein HD.. If this exists maybe this is my 8/10 and ride height compromise answer?

Then again, maybe after seeing the SRS kit it won't bug me and the 10/10 might seem worth it. I'm not a guy who wants to scrape. I want to drive. I just care about what my DD looks like. If it was a track car I wouldn't care at all.


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## Jersey.Dub (May 19, 2011)

I'm glad I found this thread. Good to know Shine does good work.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

Personally, I think the 337 is a GREAT looking car. If I hadn't purchased my 02 just 6 months earlier, I would have been all over it. The Shine kit, IMO, makes the car look awful and totally takes away from the sporty look that makes the 337 what it is. Being that the car comes w/ 18s it makes the car look even taller. The car, even in non 337 form is not setup ideally from the factory, the car still needs to be raised more, or the spring rates increased to deal w/ the increased roll.

You must also keep in mind that the Shine kit although a great street kit is not a 10/10 solution, its merely a kit that works well for a street driven car. There really is no such thing as a kit that is 10/10, situations change and require different setups to maximize the car.

If you're looking for a more practical solution that keeps w/ the 337 look, you might consider H&R sport springs or Neuspeed sport srings. The Eibach Pro kit comes to mind as well. There are a few threads around here that you can use to verify their spring rates and how they compare to the 337 OEM stuff.

For something a bit more complex, you could pick a shock that you prefer, ie Bilstein or Koni and then get a sleeve over Ground Control kit, you can pick out the exact spring rate that you want, ie just a smidge stiffer than stock, and be able to play w/ ride height to get it to your liking.


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## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

Rex, again, thank you for all the details and thoughts. Very helpful.

I'm totally with you on the SRS being a great option for handling but really kills the look of the 337/20th. Keep in mind I still haven't seen it in person yet. I didn't realize GC were kits independent of springs or shocks. I thought they were just coil kits. Looks very interesting.

The SRS springs look considerably beefier than other springs I've seen. I'm not sure they would work with a GC application. But the idea of getting an SRS kit and just lowering it back to 337 height is very interesting. I know, they would probably laugh at you and maybe not even sell it to you because it just "wrong" for handling reasons. 

Regarding your suggestion to look at other springs: This is actually where I got started on this journey to discover the right setup. I was set on H&R Race with Bilstein HDs. (I now think Race would be too low, and the Sports are probably close to 337 height).

But here's the thing about other springs... When I was at SRS they essentially told / showed me how most other springs are inferior (these are my words - what I took away from the visit). They pointed out how most other springs have much of the coils tight together and only a small part of the overall spring can do the work. Additionally, the diameters and rates are smaller. In the end, they essentially said that I'd be on my bump stops at least half the time and then the spring isn't doing much for ya is it?

They recommended placing a ring on the shaft of the strut (like zip tie or something like that) and take it for a ride. They bet that the ring would be pushed up to the bump stop even under normal driving if you took it for a spin. If this true, then you're cornering on your bump stops, and I think this means your springs aren't doing their job.

I know SRS is in the biz of selling product, and so they are of course interested in favoring their stuff. But Dick pointed out the spring rate measuring machine and said they have tested them all. They come across as decent guys and have a great rep. I just can't see them lying about this stuff to sell more springs.

I do want stiffer springs. I do want a tighter handling car. I don't want it to be so rough or low I can't drive it in New England. I like the 20th height. I'm willing to consider a little higher for increased performance, but not without seeing in person first and driving it to see how it feels to me. I think this is a reasonable approach and I'm open to any and all other ideas. Thanks again for yours. :thumbup:


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

The GC kits are a threaded sleeve that has a perch. It also comes w/ a spring, for the most part you can pick your spring rate and your spring length. If you purchase direct on the GC site then it pre selects some various popular rates and comes at prescribed lengths. However, if you go through Steve N, reflexgti here on these boards and let him know I sent you his way, he can set you up w/ just about any spring rate and length you desire, at pretty much the same price. The GC kits use standard ID race springs, so you wouldn't be using the Shine springs w/ it.

Remember when it comes to anything, just because it looks beefy doesn't mean its better, the type of material used and the way it is made has a LOT to do w/ the end quality. You can buy high end springs that are just a flat thin wire that are super light and are just as heavy duty and have just as much rate as a big, hulking beefy spring. When it comes to springs, the choices are endless. 

I too feel the H&R OE fitment Race springs drop the car too low, though it does look good, a bit more height would be more useful. The Eibach Pro Kit and H&R Sport springs will keep the car much closer to OE height.

Realistically, if you put a zip tie on a stock height car, non 337 even, you'll find that the car rides the bumpstops a lot. Bumpstops are not just stops to keep from bottoming the suspension, they too can be used as a suspension tuner. There are a number of a National Champion racers that use the stops to their advantage. Stops can be used to give a more proggressive feeling as the car uses up its complete travel, some racers are even using it as their primary spring rate. So really, you shouldn't view the stops as an evil, but rather as another tool that can be fine tuned to smooth out the ride.

One of the reasons that many aftermarket coils have many coils bound up, is because they are "dead" coils, they are placed in line with the spring to keep the springs from unloading and falling out of place or even off the car in the case of the rear end, when the car is raised or sees full droop. This situation can also happen when the car corners and weight is transferred off the inside wheels. By adding these extra coils they unwind and expand when load is removed from that corner and they thereby keep the spring in place. In at least one iteration of the SRS kit, they did not incorporate this feature, and when the car was lifted on a rack at a local mechanic, the springs fell off the rear beam, not the most impressive if you ask me. 

Additionally, when the car is lowered, do you really need all that much travel? Travel too much and you put a wheel into the fender liner. The other more likely limiting factor is the shock. If its not significantly shorter, you'll just hit into the bumpstop anyhow, so the spring will likely never really bind. If the spring is truly stiffer, it won't be compressing as much either, so you wouldn't need the same amount of spring travel that you would on a lowered car using the same spring rate.

Having installed a Shine kit on a MKIV, along w/ numerous KW, H&R, Bilstein, Koni and Advance Design coilovers as well as standard spring and shock kits, I can honestly say that the Shine kit really did raise teh car a LOT. More so than I was expecting, even after seeing pictures online. Personally, as I stated earlier, I think it would take away from what the car embodies and would be a "waste" of a 337, but of course that is all personal opinion. Definitely check out a Shine equipped car, though its not my liking, it could be right up your alley and that's what counts.

From what I see of what you've said I think you're more likely a candidate for a sport spring and sport shock kit, or a sport shock kit w/ a GC coilover conversion kit. You'll be able to order slightly stiffer springs and also play w/ the ride height anywhere from a smidge lower, to stock height to Shine height. I am a bit biased though, I personally now use GC Advance Design coilovers and am completely impressed by the level of support and the attention to detail in everything that GC has made for the MKIV chassis.


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## AEGTI3913 (May 13, 2010)

Thank again Rex for all the info.



rex_racer said:


> I too feel the H&R OE fitment Race springs drop the car too low, though it does look good, a bit more height would be more useful. The Eibach Pro Kit and H&R Sport springs will keep the car much closer to OE height. ...
> 
> Having installed a Shine kit on a MKIV, along w/ numerous KW, H&R, Bilstein, Koni and Advance Design coilovers as well as standard spring and shock kits, I can honestly say that the Shine kit really did raise teh car a LOT. More so than I was expecting, even after seeing pictures online. Personally, as I stated earlier, I think it would take away from what the car embodies and would be a "waste" of a 337, but of course that is all personal opinion. Definitely check out a Shine equipped car, though its not my liking, it could be right up your alley and that's what counts.


I did some homework and called Eibach and H&R after looking at their sites, and found the following Drop Measurements and Spring Rates:

OEM 20th : 1.0 lower than normal GTI - 110 - 175 ?? progressive (found #s on another thread - couldn't find 20th rates)
H&R 20th Race: 0.5 F / 0.25 R - 228 F / 170 R progressive
H&R 1.8GTI Race: 2.0 F / 1.75 R - 228 F / 170 R progressive
H&R 1.8GTI Sport: 1.5 F / 1.4 R (basically 20th stock? because they say it's .5 less drop than Race on a 1.8GTI) - no published rates
Eibach Pro-Kit 1.8: 1.2 F / 1.2 R ( 20th: 0.25 F/R?) - 114-202 F / 101-173 R progressive
Eibach Sportline 1.8: 1.8 F / 1.8 R ( 20th: 0.75 F/R?)- 122-217 F / 109-186 R progressive
SRS : +1.0 F / +1.0 R - 225 F / 180 R linear

So I think this means that on a 20th, H&R Sports would be close to stock height, Eiback Pro would be just 0.25 lower, H&R Race would be 0.5 lower, and Eibach Sportline 0.75 lower. Seems like anything up to 0.5 would be ok to me.

[ Something interesting to note: H&R doesn't list or sell the Sport spring application alone on a 20th like they do for a 1.8t GTI/Golf. They list the Race springs and the Sport Cup kit. Why they don't recommend just putting Sport springs in the car (not the cup) is a mystery. Is it because it's the same height as factory? If so, why sell the Sport cup kit? ]

The Rates on the H&R race, Eibach Sport, and SRS all seem similar although the SRS is linear.
The Eibach Pro a bit low at only around 200 lbs, and there's no numbers for H&R Sport. But if the H&R race is 1.5 inches lower than SRS you'd think you wanted a higher rate on them when they are actually very similar.



rex_racer said:


> From what I see of what you've said I think you're more likely a candidate for a sport spring and sport shock kit, or a sport shock kit w/ a GC coilover conversion kit. You'll be able to order slightly stiffer springs and also play w/ the ride height anywhere from a smidge lower, to stock height to Shine height. I am a bit biased though, I personally now use GC Advance Design coilovers and am completely impressed by the level of support and the attention to detail in everything that GC has made for the MKIV chassis.


The GC solution sounds interesting, but on their site, they show one option for the 2003 1.8t cars and specifically say they don't work with Bilsteins, and I was thinking of going with HDs. GC also offers rates of 375/440/525 F and 250/340/430 R, which is way higher than all the other rates listed above. Is this just because they are shorter to work in the GC system? Can you only really use Koni's for these because the Bilsteins are too wide of a diameter?

Also, I couldn't find any info on "GC Advanced Design" on their site. Is this a new product or just how your describing the GC system in general?

Today I'm leaning the route of keeping the stock springs with new HD's, or maybe H&R Sports with the Bil HD's.. but it's curious why H&R doesn't list the Sports an application for the 20th.

Does anyone know what an H&R Sport is like compared to a 20th/337 spring (height or stiffness)?

Again, thanks for all the insight. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

I believe there is a thread on here that lists a lot of the spring rates for the popular springs. In testing I believe the Pro Kit exhibited linear movement. The H&R Sport kit might actually even raise the car from standard 20th/337 spec height. This would go against the thought process of how the Sport kits are put together and labeled and thus why they might not be selling a kit specific to the 20th/337 application. I would think the only reason they sell the Sport Cup kit is because if comes w/ revalved shocks which would have a sporty feel.

Advanced Designs are an in house custom built shock from Ground Control, its not a typical daily driver/show car coilover. They are made for motorsport applications which is typically at a more custom level where one would be running spring rates anywhere from 600lbs on upwards of 1000lbs. 

The GC sleeve over kit DOES work with Bilsteins. As I said before if you are interested work directly with Steve N, reflexgti. The website is a very basic site and does not have all of the details listed out. Based on what you are looking for, I would recommend a spring rate more in the 250-300lb range front and rear.


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