# F23 install done, nothing but problems with car now



## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Hi guys,

I am at the end of my rope. I got my car back from the F23 turbo and downpipe being installed. Failing readiness, don't care about that right now since its my rear O2 sensor no surprise. However, the car worked fine for 1 day, well not really fine, it would only boost to 8psi which I believe is the FORGE wastegate actuator pressure. But at least car ran smooth.

Then yesterday I switched from my stock program to my APR tune. Drove about a mile, got up to 15 psi of boost, car went BOOM, and trac conrol light and check engine. From that point on I tried to drive it and all it did was buck and couldn't really go above 5 MPH. Since I live on top of a hill it was constantly having to pull over and restart the car. I was logging at the time so I have the 115, 003, and 118 blocks in a log.

However, today I took apart the entire hot and cold side, retightened everything, checked for boost leaks none found. Reset code, went for drive same problems, drives like $*W until I restart car.

Since one code was the MAF I tried unplugging that, reset codes, went for ride, same problem, bucking and pretty much floor the car and only go 5MPH.

The other code I don't recognize below and Ross Tech no help.

I did a throttle body adaptation before the problem began, I also tried redoin it several times, hear all the clicks etc. 

Totally stranded, anyone know what the heck is wrong?





2 Faults Found:
16486 - Mass Air Flow Sensor (G70): Signal too Low
P0102 - 35-00 - -
17796 - Control Module Malfunction - DBW Throttle Monitoring
P1388 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

I am by no means an expert, but perhaps can get the ball rolling. Can you please share the data you captured while logging (even link us to source files).

Does the car idle fine?
Can you build RPMs while stationary or does car choke?
Have you tried switching back to the stock program to see if issue resolves ( assuming it really started after you switched tunes)?


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

THANK YOU, I have ordered a rental car to get to work next week 

Does the car idle fine? *yes*
Can you build RPMs while stationary or does car choke? *yes smooth when stationary *
Have you tried switching back to the stock program to see if issue resolves ( assuming it really started after you switched tunes)? *yes switched back to stock*

Today I went over the engine, looking to see if the harness was shorting out, no. Then I removed the Throttle Position Sensor on the intake and cleaned its electrical connectors. Then I tried disconnecting the battery for a minute. I ran it through the Vagcom blocks to see the gas pedal % and can hear the throttle body opening, looks fine. Then I did throttle body adaptation again. Took it for a ride. If I keep the load low like a flat road, stay off boost, I can drive it slowly, the minute I introduce any load it feels misfires, but not enough to light anything on the dash. If I really get into it (WOT up a hill) car will just buck then cut power and EPC light stay solid and car is undriveable until I restart. Once I restart I can slowly drive again.

I logged misfires, spotty. I don't know what is wrong. I have tried both the stock and APR Stage 1 file no help. I'm tempted to pull the plugs. I also have a spare ECU I may swap that in next. 

Really not sure what else to check.

Here is the list of work done. I will post logs in next post.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

*VAGCOM logs*

Friday's log (g/s, boost request/actual)

http://www.mediafire.com/?44hdsgaxbhq717p


Sunday's log (misfires)

http://www.mediafire.com/?gefepsnaena8pmf


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Did you say you pulled and gapped plugs? I know that's elementary, but sounds like the spark could be blowing out.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

warranty225cpe said:


> Did you say you pulled and gapped plugs? I know that's elementary, but sounds like the spark could be blowing out.


Very simple but a likely culprit as noted. OP didn't list what brand plugs, *plug gap*, heat range, new or used etc.

VW's have weak sauce ignition systems as we all know and proper plug gap and fresh plugs are critical. And NEVER EVER use multi-electrode plugs!! 

BTW, I'd like to know if the low MAF Flow signal and DBW error code showed up again after clearing.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Plugs are the stock ngk platinum gapped at .028. Plugs and coils have 10000 miles on them and worked fine until this work done. Misfires aren't showing up in vagcom maybe something else. I thinks its the TPS.

Its sitting at the shop now I gave up. I've worked on this car almost every weekend and vacation on the last year I've owned it. Spent 4000 bux on it, thought the turbo blowing and one last chunk of money would finally make it reliable..ha.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I know it's easy to want to push that thing off of a cliff. Just don't let it get you down. It will get better eventually.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

I just thought of a new slogan for those " Bad idea " T-Shirts. 

Reliable car - German car :laugh:


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

symptoms sound typical of a boost leak or ignition coil problems.

The boom contributes to the boost leak theory.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

ejg3855 said:


> symptoms sound typical of a boost leak or ignition coil problems.
> 
> The boom contributes to the boost leak theory.


Initial thought for me was what Eric is saying. The boom, followed by bucking is the textbook symptom of hose popping off in the system (double and triple check every joint in the charge piping from turbo outlet to throttle body. And don't forget the PCV, compressor bypass, brake booster, and vacuum system that also tap into the manifold for vaccum/pressure. Something as simple as failed check valve, a cracked hose, failed clamp, etc. can be overlooked). However, unplugging the MAF should make the car run decently (no bucking) because the metered air discrepancy is removed from the equation. You won't build much boost pressure and your vaccum at idle will be low, but the car should be drivable this way (even loaded and going uphill). If you unplugged the MAF and the car is still not drivable, there might also be something else going on (maybe fuel or ignition, and it is to be noted that the second problem could be independent and not ruling out a leak in the system). 

One last thing that I can think of (especially with a new turbo install), is the TIP becoming unseated from the turbo inlet. This isn't uncommon and can make even the experienced wrencher chase their tail (ask warranty Eric about that one ). 

Don't get frustrated, we'll help you sort through it. I'm going to PM you my cell so you can text me for tech support when you're working on it again. :beer:


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

Max disconnecting the MAF would eliminate the TIP as a problem thought as there is no metered air in the system anywhere? 

OP do you have access to pressure testing of the charge piping system?


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

ejg3855 said:


> symptoms sound typical of a boost leak or ignition coil problems.
> 
> The boom contributes to the boost leak theory.


that was my thought as well. Its not the first time I've blown a hose off under boost. However I stripped down both hot and cold side, retigtened everything, reintsalled the TIP and every little barb. Then retested again with my compressor at 10psi. I will say there is possibly a leak somewhere, it has to be the turbo itself,not sure how that is possible. There is no air escaping on the TIP side or the rubber elbow at the outlet side, but the leak I can hear is faint, and right between those two. 

I've driven with boost leak(s) before, car is still driveable, this is a whole different experience  I think the boom sounded different, not as loud as when you blow off a hose.

I do appreciate the suggestion.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

as an update, the mechanic who worked on it has given up. He said its got to be the ECU, once on boost the air fuel trim goes crazy.

I've run it with no MAF, no help. I've even swapped in my spare ECU (Stage 3 F23 tune, same behavior, idles great, dies on load).

I was told to come pickup the car after work so I will limp it home and keep it around 2500 rpms.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

ejg3855 said:


> Max disconnecting the MAF would eliminate the TIP as a problem thought as there is no metered air in the system anywhere?
> 
> OP do you have access to pressure testing of the charge piping system?


yes, I have a HF 100psi hot dog compressor with a boost leak tester, works very well. I usually test between 10 and 15 psi. Oil cap off. Hockey puck hose plugged. 

Boost leak test and retightening everything was step 1. I did have to redo the tip to the turbo as the mechanic put the clamp on, but never tightened it :banghead: Still didn't fix my problem though.

....

My theory, for what its worth, boom was not a boost hose blown off, it was a backfire, pressure going into intake killed the throttle position sensor (that is the code that keeps coming up). Arguments in favor is if throttle is at under 20% opening, runs ok, as soon as I go over a threshhold of more than , car misfires.

Don't worry guys, I plan to undo the intake manifold, recheck every hose (very experience at this lol). Also pulling all the plugs to look for fouling.

....

Theory 2, the F23 I was sold is bunk, somehow internally leaking, that is the hiss on boost leak test, oil getting into intake, messing up sensor, shot in the dark, and that better not be it caues I'm not looking forward to paying for another turbo and R+R.

Thanks you guys for the offers of help I will chase down every little thing until it runs. I visitied the Hyundai dealership just in case I can't get it running in 2 weeks I'm done, I need a reliable car for work.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Just push through it dude. I was there. All the way down to the Hyundai dealership. Your not gonna be happy with anything they make. Thank god I didn't do that.


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

toy4two2 said:


> Friday's log (g/s, boost request/actual)
> http://www.mediafire.com/?44hdsgaxbhq717p
> Sunday's log (misfires)
> http://www.mediafire.com/?gefepsnaena8pmf


Boost looks crazy... I have never seen data like this where sensor is reading below atmosphere and the actual pressure seems to go opposite of what is requested by ECU. 

***Note how actual pressure goes negative on the graph***










RPM / MAF / Throttle %


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## Teeguzi (Jul 22, 2011)

Have you checked the vacuum hose connection to the waste gate actuator? Mine fell off recently and the car had the same exact symptoms you have noted.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Jim


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

car is back in the garage, looks like its on me to fix it. Really appreciate all your help guys. Mechanic says it has to be a software (APR) issue.. but I already swapped in a Gonzo ECU. Oh well here is his recommendations/guess










475g/s lol no way, this isn't a V10 Semi Tractor Trailer turbo


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Teeguzi said:


> Have you checked the vacuum hose connection to the waste gate actuator? Mine fell off recently and the car had the same exact symptoms you have noted.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> ...


Only visually, assume that one won't show up on a boost leak test? I can see its plugged into the WGA but that doesn't mean its good... perhaps that is the hissing from the boost leak test I may owe you a :beer:

Don't worry, this week or weekend I am ripping it all off, TIP, wastegate ,output elbow, spark plugs, intake manifold. Going over every inch of it. Also taking out my "Forge-ry" 007 and putting back in the 710N.


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## Boulderhead (Oct 21, 2012)

*Data*

Has anyone ever seen data like the graphs above? It seems completely ass backwards, especially as airflow increases as the throttle plate is closing... You are super rich though according to fuel trims (drowning the motor in fuel) and your airflow in the data you provided seems quite low especially with the updated turbo.

What size injectors do you have in the car?
What are your thoughts on replacing the pressure sensor? Seems like a cheap easy place to start given the data you provided.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

The throttle plate might be closing for some protection from the ecu, I can't explain the boom or weird noises. But if the tq models don't make sense with what the ecu is seeing it will protect itself with throttle cut. Although this makes no sense with the F23 ecu unless some hardware failure is causing drastic deviation. Are you getting any codes?

have you tried bypassing the n75 and running the vac line straight to the wastegate? 

This would tell you if it was the N75. 

When you had the tip off did you feel the turbine wheel and spin it?

Where do you live?


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

i would think there's a plug switched up...some of the plugs around the throttle use the same style clip..so they can mixed up...


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Krissrock said:


> i would think there's a plug switched up...some of the plugs around the throttle use the same style clip..so they can mixed up...


this is pretty far from the truth, vw is pretty good at independent plugs, There is nothing critical around the throttle body that could cause any of those issues.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Yeah, most of the plugs aren't interchangeable, and if they are, they won't reach. Everything sounds like the throttle codes that won't go away are the main suspect. Can you find another throttle body to try? You keep saying you cleaned the TPS, but I think you're confusing the IAT sensor. There is no traditional TPS on a DBW throttle body (there are actually two as a safety failsafe), you'd have to open the throttle electronics to clean the two sensors.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

OP...what MAF housing are you using?


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

ejg3855 said:


> this is pretty far from the truth, vw is pretty good at independent plugs, There is nothing critical around the throttle body that could cause any of those issues.


I know for the fact that you can put the plug from the AIT sensor in the unit on the underside of that plate in front of the intake manifold... (I forget what it's called, but it hooks up the N249)

I've done it. 

so I would be far from the surprise if there are other plugs that much somewhere else

when I did it, I got a cell immediately saying that the air intake temp was too high or the voltage was too high.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

I'll answer all the questions in one post. Car has the Stock/APR ECU in, I only ran the F23 ECU for about 10 minutes when it didn't help.

I did not clean the TPS, only the electrical connector that plugs into the throttle body. I should have checked to see if they plugged in something incorrectly to the throttle body

I run a stock OEM 225 MAF housing

When I got home I pulled off the wastegate line, pressurized it, actuator moves freely, and no leaks in the line, so there goes that easy fix I was hoping for. N75 could still be suspect as when it ran better it was only boosting to 8psi (Forge WGA green spring) so N75 wasn't doing squat.

Car runs SUPER rich based on my MPG, under 20MPG even when I BARELY use the gas pedal

I got a call back from the local superstar Audi shop in San Diego, Pure Motorsport, so I figured I would give them a try at diagnosis. I also left my 550cc injectors, F23 ECU, and Walbro 255 fuel pump to see if they want to try swapping them to see if it helps.

Will let you know tomorrow night what they think.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Make sure that none of the pins on the TPS/DBW throttle are bent. It easy to do and will mess things up.

BTW, did the codes for " DBW throttle monitoring " return after clearing?


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

So Pure said its running perfectly ... up to 8psi anyway, after that its way too lean, misfires, backfires. The new Stage 3 ECU, 550cc injectors, and inline walbro and it shoud run smooth.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> So Pure said its running perfectly ... up to 8psi anyway, after that its way too lean, misfires, backfires. The new Stage 3 ECU, 550cc injectors, and inline walbro and it shoud run smooth.


Sounds like progress :beer:


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

Does the in line pump work correctly? Have them check. If not it could act like a clogged fuel line


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

I went back to the first mechanic after the second one found oil around the turbo.

So its leaking somewhere, they think the inlet side of the turbo is leaking oil, I suspect an untightened oil line.. :facepalm: 

how hard is it for me to tighten the turbo oil line(s), can I get a wrench in there without taking off the subframe and downpipe?

going to buy a new car asap


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> I went back to the first mechanic after the second one found oil around the turbo.
> 
> So its leaking somewhere, they think the inlet side of the turbo is leaking oil, I suspect an untightened oil line.. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


You should be able to get in there to tighten it. But Im sure it will be a pain in the ass. Dont give up yet:beer:


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

*recomitted*

update

I pulled out the stock fuel injectors, replaced them with 550cc ones. Then I took out the APR Stage 1 ECU and put in the Gonzo Stage 3 ECU.

Additionally, just to be safe, I pulled the stock plugs gapped at .028 and put in NGK bkr8eix gapped at .026 from some old posts spartani had recommending them for F23 users with no water meth injection. Hopefully this helps the misfires.

Before I put it all back together the only thing in my way is installing the Walbro 255 inline pump and the USRT under hood wiring harness. The problem is I'm not sure which fuel hose to cut. I see two hoses feeding into the fuel injector rail, the hoses are joined together by a rubber "shrink wrap" in the photo below. Can anyone tell me which fuel hose to cut?


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## luchos (Feb 23, 2012)

hope this helps


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

that's exactly what I needed, thanks


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

pump is now in. 

Before I can fire it up to see how it runs I have a problem.

The walbaro 255 in line fuel pump starts running the moment I reconnect the battery?

I have the yellow wire going to the 87F/Diesel power stud under the dash, I thought its only supposed to run when the car is running after a 2 second "prime" from opening the door.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

moved off the 87F/Diesel power stud to the 30A nearby, at least now it only runs with the key in the accessory position. Wish it didn't run in that position, but better than with the car in the off position.

it was tough to start due to all the excess fuel that flooded into the injector ports as I was swapping those. Eventually burned off, and everything seems to idle well, spark plugs a go, fuel pump working, no leaks, and ECU is behaving.

Will take it for a spin this afternoon to see how it runs now. Happy Labor Day Weekend eace:









Fuel pump hidden under hard boost pipe









I can't imagine wiring this thing up without the URST Under Hood wiring harness pre-made









Everything back together. Broke my coolant tank black plastic cover, PM me if you have one for sale.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

If you are too lean at 8psi, there is something that is really wrong.

I would keep the 0.28 gap and try running the car MAFless.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Misfires gone....but car feels really weak. Highest I can boost is 13 Psi. Hope its only a boost leak. Drowning my sorrows at a beach bar..getting back after it tomorrow.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> Misfires gone....but car feels really weak. Highest I can boost is 13 Psi. Hope its only a boost leak. Drowning my sorrows at a beach bar..getting back after it tomorrow.


What is it boosting off of actuator pressure? What's are you doing for boost control again?


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

8psi off actuator. N75 via Forge wga and gonzo stag 3 tune. Stay TUNED


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

I would advise against running the N75 with a tune that was made for someone else.

Just saying.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Which actuator? The Forge right? Which spring?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

If its the Forge, you have to match the spring to what boost your running. Fwiw, I have the red spring (stiffest).


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Which actuator? The Forge right? Which spring?


green spring. 

also got a few misfires today, even at .026 and two heat range colder plugs


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> green spring.
> 
> also got a few misfires today, even at .026 and two heat range colder plugs


Green spring won't cut it. Try the red spring, or one step lower. Call forge and get them to help you out.

IIRC, the green is for stock pressures. Forge will tell you that you need a MUCH. Stiffer spring. It help out a lot when I got the correct spring in there.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> Green spring won't cut it. Try the red spring, or one step lower. Call forge and get them to help you out.
> 
> IIRC, the green is for stock pressures. Forge will tell you that you need a MUCH. Stiffer spring. It help out a lot when I got the correct spring in there.


the problem is gonzo stated for the F23 tune he made to use the 8psi spring. 

I did get some new codes today, will clear them and see if they come back. Interesting the O2 sensor is complaining its got 24,000 miles on it.

VCDS-Lite Version: Release 1.1
Monday, 02 September 2013, 15:56:29:2435


Chassis Type: 8N - Audi TT
Scan: 01,02,03,08,15,17,22,35,37,45,55,56,76,77

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AJQ.LBL
Controller: 8N0 906 018 AN
Component: 1.8T F23/V1.5 G02 0050
Coding: 06710
Shop #: WSC 01236
VCID: 7D8D737464FF
TRUWT28N121025795 AUZ5Z0B2135083
3 Faults Found:
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low
P1602 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Malfunction in Circuit
P0130 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Readiness: 0010 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: Redir Fail!
Controller: 8N0 907 379 H
Component: ESP ALLRAD MK60 0101
Coding: 0022544
Shop #: WSC 01236
VCID: 41F5CF845887
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: None
Controller: 8N0 820 043 A
Component: TT-KLIMAVOLLAUTOMAT D03
Coding: 00140
Shop #: WSC 01236
VCID: 28237220DBFD
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8N0-959-655.LBL
Controller: 8N0 959 655 A
Component: Airbag Front+Seite 5000
Coding: 01103
Shop #: WSC 01236
VCID: 3E0FB4782979
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8Nx-920-xxx-17.LBL
Controller: 8N1 920 980 
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. M73 D12
Coding: 07244
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: F399D54CD2BB
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX 
3 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications
01305 - Databus for Infotainment
37-00 - Faulty

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 22: AWD Labels: 02D-900-554.LBL
Controller: 02D 900 554 C
Component: HALDEX LSC ECC 0010
VCID: 20336A00B3CD
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8Nx-962-267.LBL
Controller: 8N8 962 267 A
Component: Central Lock/Alarm D06
Coding: 15980
Shop #: WSC 01236
VCID: 3FF1C97C2E73
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 8E0-951-177.LBL
Controller: 8N8 951 177 
Component: Innenraumueberw. D09
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: FC8BFE70FFE5
No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Xenon Range Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.LBL
Controller: 4B0 907 357 
Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER D004
Coding: 00010
Shop #: WSC 01236
VCID: E5BDBB146C6F
No fault code found.

End --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

decided to check my fuel trims. any feedback on what this means?


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

> 16514 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: Malfunction in Circuit
> P0130 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent


Fix that first


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

yea thinking new o2 sensor, i guess running super rich killed it...going to yank the maf again tomorrow to see if it helps.

did more logging and can see my actual boost is way off from requested. The only time I saw this before was a boost/vacuum leak but I've tested it and so has a shop and can't seem to find out what's up.

here's the logs: http://www.mediafire.com/?rxd94ya4t4lmkvq

my forge 007 dv held 20 psi on the apr tune, but should I swap a different spring in that bad boy, I have those springs laying around. I also think I could slap on 2 home depot springs to stiffen up the forge wga to prove if I do in fact want to go to the trouble of opening the wga on the car to swap it.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> yea thinking new o2 sensor, i guess running super rich killed it...going to yank the maf again tomorrow to see if it helps.
> 
> did more logging and can see my actual boost is way off from requested. The only time I saw this before was a boost/vacuum leak but I've tested it and so has a shop and can't seem to find out what's up.
> 
> ...


 Using the red spring in the Forge WGA mad a night and day difference in my situation.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

OP is talking about DV's 

You are mentioning WGA's/


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> yea thinking new o2 sensor, i guess running super rich killed it...going to yank the maf again tomorrow to see if it helps.
> 
> did more logging and can see my actual boost is way off from requested. The only time I saw this before was a boost/vacuum leak but I've tested it and so has a shop and can't seem to find out what's up.
> 
> ...





ejg3855 said:


> OP is talking about DV's
> 
> You are mentioning WGA's/


Hes talking about both.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

im retarded, please excuse me. labor day hangover.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

ejg3855 said:


> im retarded, please excuse me. labor day hangover.


All good, Im recovering too :beer:


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

I threw on two of the large home depot springs, just like I had on the stock K04. Almost no difference, I can hit 15psi that's it.

I'm surprised the springs stay on as the Forge WGA arm must have less threads than the stocker, I only have 4 threads exposed.

I installed the WGA, close the flapper then rotate nut 3 times for 3mm of preload, leaving 4 threads exposed on the arm. The stock arm had like 12-15 threads showing.

Also ran without the MAF plugged in, zero change.

next up new O2 sensor.

threw in the recently purchased 710N to see if its a DV issue, no change.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I think the o2 sensor might be the issue as youve stated above. But Id be interested to see what happens when you add more preload.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

so today's update. On the advice of Audi Mechanic, who also runs a F23 here in So Cal, and also works at the dealership, I yanked my N75 "F" revision and put in the updated N75 "E" revision.

Can't say it helped any with my poor peak boost, still only goes to about 15 psi but at low RPMs seems like its a little smoother than my original valve which as 100k miles on it.

I bought a BOSCH universal O2 sensor, I will crimp it all together tonight and install it tomorrow.

Failing that, next $ will be spent on a manual boost controller, and the Forge WGA tuning springs. After that, I'm totally tapped out of money. :facepalm:


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

warranty225cpe said:


> But Id be interested to see what happens when you add more preload.


are you suggesting I crank the WGA arm nut down a few more mm to expose more threads? Any idea roughly how many mm / cm the nut on your rod is from the end of the rod?


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

you're running a Gonzo Stage 3 F23 tune also right?

This maybe a stupid question, but could I be switched into STOCK mode lol?? 

http://vimeo.com/46860648


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

I just tried program switching, did nothing on my car, must not be enabled.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Images are blocked at work so I just saw your fuel trims. Replace your o2 sensor before you do anything else.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

o2 sensor ready to be swapped.

Also, going to check this out, didn't occur to me to check before having it installed if this f23 egt was plugged, I have a narrowband amu. Wouldn't it be peachy if this hole was not only preventing full boost, making me run rich, but ALSO fixed my oil leak... nah NOTHING on the TT is that rewarding :laugh:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...haust-leak&p=78717598&viewfull=1#post78717598


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> o2 sensor ready to be swapped.
> 
> Also, going to check this out, didn't occur to me to check before having it installed if this f23 egt was plugged, I have a narrowband amu. Wouldn't it be peachy if this hole was not only preventing full boost, making me run rich, but ALSO fixed my oil leak... nah NOTHING on the TT is that rewarding :laugh:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...haust-leak&p=78717598&viewfull=1#post78717598


I think you should be able to reach your arm back there and feel around for the hole. An inspection mirror and a flash light work wonders.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> you're running a Gonzo Stage 3 F23 tune also right?
> 
> This maybe a stupid question, but could I be switched into STOCK mode lol??
> 
> http://vimeo.com/46860648


Just saw this. And yes, you can cycle through the stages by holding gas and break. Engine light flashes for 1,2,3 to indicate which file your using.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

OP has a narrowband ECU that he bought second hand.

There is no program switching for that ECU.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> OP has a narrowband ECU that he bought second hand.
> 
> There is no program switching for that ECU.


Ahhhhhh...


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

OP needs to do a wide band conversion, while not necessary it makes tuning a lot easier.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

used a mirror and can see that hole is plugged so unfortunatley I can't blame that.

I put in the new O2 sensor, redid throttle body adjustment and cleared fuel trims by clearing engine codes (had none).

Drove around and still -17% mulplicative :facepalm: 

I guess the o2 sensor was fine. I took the 2 external springs off the Forge WGA and still boosting to max 15psi, yet car requests the 22-23psi. 

So weak boost, running rich...I swear everything points to a boost leak. Time to test again. 

You can see my 02 sensor, even though new, shows in readiness as a problem. Also you can see what version of the Gonzo Stage 3 F23 code I'm running V1.5 I have no program switching, but is your version newer Warranty? I may ask Gonzo how much an upgrade costs if there is something better out there.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

I wouldn't rule out a preturbo exhaust leak either. Those can be tricky since they won't show in a boost leak, compression, or leakdown test....


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

What happens when you crank the piss out of the wg actuator?

Not sure which version Gonzo gave me. Sorry man.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

I'll go crank the piss out of it now. 

For ****s and giggles I took off the line going to the WGA from the N75 which should be infinite boost... but ironically, only 15 psi. This seems to be the max no matter what I do. 15 psi feels really weak compared to 14 psi on my old stock K04.

I emailed Doug @FT to see if its possible there is an internal leak in my F23, if there is I will purchase a rebuild kit and fork out another $1300 to R&R the turbo but maybe find a competent shop who can reassemble without the oil leak I have now from the turbo. When I did a leak test I can hear that distinct hiss coming from between the turbo inlet and turbo outlet.

I've spent (or plan to spend) the $$$ I had towards a downpayment on a new Hyundai to get this TT running right so I'm all in no other choice. I've thought about selling but I can't pass smog as is here in Cali so it would have to be sold for Off Road Use, also thinking of trading the heap in, but they will give me less than Blue Book a nd that's a shame for a ALMS in mint condition with a bunch of upgraded parts.


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

Maybe you have the same issue W225 had with the wastegate flap stuck open


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

JohnnyAlpaca said:


> Maybe you have the same issue W225 had with the wastegate flap stuck open


Funny you say that. But mine was a failed bushing on the WG that was pressed into the hot side. Doug has since fixed that. Unless he sold you one of the earlier models (paper weights) like the one he sold me. I would crank on the actuator and see if that changes your boost. I would also recommend undoing the actuator all the way first, and check for free play. It could be binding on the housing. Do that first, then crank down on the actuator (aka Doug's magic fix) and see if your max boost changes at all. I really think that you need a stiffer spring in there. No clue about your afr issues though. Sorry


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

I doubt its fixed. I bet he just got you another unit that wasn't faulty fwiw


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

update:

I "cranked the piss" out of the WGA. Its basically NOT opening, you might be able to slide a dime in between the flapper when its actuated 

So results: 20psi until it hits "soft" limp and cuts everything, bucks, but I can ease up then get right back into it and roll up to 20psi again.

To be perfectly honest, it just doesn't feel like it should at 20psi, I've run my old K04 with APR and when it hit 20psi it felt faster so I not sure what I should be expecting.

So I ordered the Forge springs, they will be in next week hopefully, kinda lame they charge $15 to ship 4 dinky springs which cost $30 but that's life in an Audi.

Any new thoughts guys?


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

I'll keep at it since I've yet to see an F23 install thread go smoothly. I leaned on those before me, like getting the Forge WGA from the start and going with a Gonzo tune, but looks like there sitll isn't a formula anyone can follow that is planning on doing this mod.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Can you log requested vs actual AFR and MAF readings? I'd be more concerned with that over the boosting right now.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

going to put this thread on ice for a week or two. I found a minor boost leak on the turbo outlet elbow, likely because the shop pitched my t-bolt clamps for crappy hose clamps. But to be safe I ordered a whole new Forge elbow and t-bolt clamps.

So in the next 1.5 weeks I should have turbo output elbow, MBC, and Forge WGA springs installed. I think then I will do the AFR logging.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

good clamps are a must, worm gear clamps are horrible for even clamping loads.

Sounds like the shop losing credability


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

ejg3855 said:


> good clamps are a must, worm gear clamps are horrible for even clamping loads.
> 
> Sounds like the shop losing credability


You mean the shop that took off my head to install the turbo, the shop who left me with a massive oil leak all over my garage floor, forgot to attach the o2 sensor bracket and just let it dangle, or the ones who used worm clamps. :facepalm: They won't even fix the oil leak because they say its a failed turbo and they don't warranty customer supplied parts. :bs:

These guys say they specialize in VW and Audi only, and came at the recommendation of a friend with an aircooled VW Bus, but now I know, they have no clue how to work on modern water cooled turbo VAGs.


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## luchos (Feb 23, 2012)

toy4two2 said:


> You mean the shop that took off my head to install the turbo, the shop who left me with a massive oil leak all over my garage floor, forgot to attach the o2 sensor bracket and just let it dangle, or the ones who used worm clamps. :facepalm: They won't even fix the oil leak because they say its a failed turbo and they don't warranty customer supplied parts. :bs:
> 
> These guys say they specialize in VW and Audi only, and came at the recommendation of a friend with an aircooled VW Bus, but now I know, they have no clue how to work on modern water cooled turbo VAGs.


 there's nothing wrong with taking the head off to install the turbo ... I'll agree with you on the other aspects , the shop sounds retarded


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

luchos said:


> there's nothing wrong with taking the head off to install the turbo ... I'll agree with you on the other aspects , the shop sounds retarded


I think the same. If I had to do a turbo swap at home, I would just pull the head. There really isnt much room to work with on quattro TTs.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Just got word my turbo outlet elbow is backordered 3 weeks from FORGE. So looks like I won't be updating this thread until October. 

Talk to ya'll soon.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

Couldn't you just get a silicone 90 from somewhere else to help diagnose the cause of the issue?? It's not like the forge piece is anything special...


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## luchos (Feb 23, 2012)

barelyboosting1.8t said:


> Couldn't you just get a silicone 90 from somewhere else to help diagnose the cause of the issue?? It's not like the forge piece is anything special...


x2 I would cancel the order with forge and get a different outlet elsewhere


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

if you guys have any recommendations, it isn't the same diameter on both ends, and in fact I don't know the diameters, I think 2 inch on one side and 2.5 inch on the other but who knows the actual size to make it line up. 

If you have personally used a 90 you can recommend I'll order tomorrow.


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## luchos (Feb 23, 2012)

toy4two2 said:


> if you guys have any recommendations, it isn't the same diameter on both ends, and in fact I don't know the diameters, I think 2 inch on one side and 2.5 inch on the other but who knows the actual size to make it line up.
> 
> If you have personally used a 90 you can recommend I'll order tomorrow.


you're using 225tt charge piping right? The frankenturbo outlet will be the same as any 225tt outlet hose.. I would recommend either trying to find a 90* silicone transition coupler(something like this, but i'm unsure of the stock piping sizes) http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...d=952&osCsid=d10f03514cbce38237fedf35cefef2e1
I can also donate you my stock outlet pipe if I still have it to get you by until the backorder is filled... I can check my garage tomorrow to see if it's laying around somewhere


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

toy4two2 said:


> if you guys have any recommendations, it isn't the same diameter on both ends, and in fact I don't know the diameters, I think 2 inch on one side and 2.5 inch on the other but who knows the actual size to make it line up.
> 
> If you have personally used a 90 you can recommend I'll order tomorrow.


Yes.....its called OEM....


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

toy4two2 said:


> if you guys have any recommendations, it isn't the same diameter on both ends, and in fact I don't know the diameters, I think 2 inch on one side and 2.5 inch on the other but who knows the actual size to make it line up.
> 
> If you have personally used a 90 you can recommend I'll order tomorrow.


Yeah, I have an OEM I can send you as well. If it's 2" in/2.5" out, then the silicone intakes one would work too. I've used their stuff before, they're a great source for reducing silicone bends.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

ok thanks fellas, got a silicone elbow on the way 

I'm starting to get a good feeling the elbow, t-bolt clamps, MBC, and blue WGA spring will fix this


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

warranty225cpe said:


> I think the same. If I had to do a turbo swap at home, I would just pull the head. There really isnt much room to work with on quattro TTs.


I did it in my driveway without a lift. i would not remove the head its so much more work then just taking your time and doing it rite.


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## taverncustoms (Feb 18, 2011)

toy4two2 said:


> ok thanks fellas, got a silicone elbow on the way
> 
> I'm starting to get a good feeling the elbow, t-bolt clamps, MBC, and blue WGA spring will fix this


its probably all the elbow. the other items are nice to have though


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

In my experience the T-bolt clamp is gonna be too wide. Needs to be a regular (decent) worm clamp on the turbo side of that elbow. I did figure out a way to use safety wire to keep those from backing off.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

Didn't you already perform a blt that showed no leaks though? I'm still wondering if its not 1 of 3 issues:

1. A post-head, pre-turbo leak

2. Leaky seals/faulty turbo

3. Possibly, the same issue that Doug had with the FrankenTT where the exhaust valves were being pushed open due to the excessive exhaust back-pressure

Granted, the last would be a far fetch and highly unlikely with your boost pressures not even being that high....at the same time he was experiencing this EVEN WITH Supertech dual springs and had to upgrade to something even BEEFIER. The oem size housing is VERY restrictive so if he experienced this with ported pieces and aftermarket springs, its not TOO far fetched to think that this could be what's happening with your tired oem springs....


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

taverncustoms said:


> I did it in my driveway without a lift. i would not remove the head its so much more work then just taking your time and doing it rite.


Bingo.



taverncustoms said:


> I3. Possibly, the same issue that Doug had with the FrankenTT where the exhaust valves were being pushed open due to the excessive exhaust back-pressure
> 
> Granted, the last would be a far fetch and highly unlikely with your boost pressures not even being that high....at the same time he was experiencing this EVEN WITH Supertech dual springs and had to upgrade to something even BEEFIER. The oem size housing is VERY restrictive so if he experienced this with ported pieces and aftermarket springs, its not TOO far fetched to think that this could be what's happening with your tired oem springs....


Exhaust pressure was pushing valves open? Or reversion was contaminating the charge mixture by pushing back upstream past the exhaust valves? Sorry, I must have missed that but I've never heard of such happening before.


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

20v master said:


> Bingo.
> 
> 
> 
> Exhaust pressure was pushing valves open? Or reversion was contaminating the charge mixture by pushing back upstream past the exhaust valves? Sorry, I must have missed that but I've never heard of such happening before.


It was actually pushing the exhaust valves open due to the excessive back pressure being so much greater than the base seat pressure on the valves. Ed at FFE also witnessed it. See the old frankenTT thread and the very last post.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Jebus, now THAT's some backpressure. :screwy:


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## Gonzzz (Apr 27, 2010)

20v master said:


> Jebus, now THAT's some backpressure. :screwy:


and it was locked, of course.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

im still waiting on parts, but something is seriously wrong with the car. I really have a hard time driving it the gasoline fumes in the passenger compartment are so strong I feel like I'm going to pass out when waiting at a light.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

toy4two2 said:


> im still waiting on parts, but something is seriously wrong with the car. I really have a hard time driving it the gasoline fumes in the passenger compartment are so strong I feel like I'm going to pass out when waiting at a light.


Well..that is hardly the fault of the F23. Sounds like you have other issues....probably from the " Professional " shop ( /Sarcasm mode ) that buggered up so many other things on your car:banghead:

I feel your pain :beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> im still waiting on parts, but something is seriously wrong with the car. I really have a hard time driving it the gasoline fumes in the passenger compartment are so strong I feel like I'm going to pass out when waiting at a light.


What fuel pump are you running? Did they open up the tank from the top and not seal it up well?


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## abacorrado (Apr 5, 2005)

you aren't using the ecu O2 sensor as a signal for an A/F meter are you? I did that with a corrado and it ran super rich.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

barelyboosting1.8t said:


> Didn't you already perform a blt that showed no leaks though? I'm still wondering if its not 1 of 3 issues:
> 
> 1. A post-head, pre-turbo leak
> 
> ...


I did do a boost leak test, I'm pretty much a pro at those consideirng how often they happen on the TT. So it is a VERY minor leak, hold ok pressure, but the hiss comes from the turbo outlet elbow, I can see where the worm clamp ate into the rubber as a bit of oil is coming out there as well.

Since the shop did remove the head and I don't think they know what they're doing, how could they have messed that up and how can I test? 

Doug at FT said the turbo is still under warranty if thats the issue, but I don't think it is anymore since locating that faulty elbow.

If its the exhaust back pressure I would be surprised, a new 3 inch RL downpipe went on with brand new cat during F23 install.

I did reclamp the crank case breather hose, had a small opening since it wasn't seated correctly, hoping that the gas fumes I smell in the car. Otherwise, I bought some new fuel hose line and the walbro 255 comes out tomorrow and I run stock fueling. Perhaps the 255 is leaking...or it could be my injectors...so many variables. I'll keep swapping stock parts in and use lemminwinks for a rough tune if all else fails and set the MBC to 18psi

I did buy one important part today for the passenger seat...A FIRE EXTINGUISHER.


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## Audiguy84 (Nov 14, 2006)

Did you smoke test the engine for leaks.... Check the injectors and cups for problems


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

:facepalm: I'm an idiot. So after the boost leak test I must have forgot to reseal the oil cap, hahah, so all those fumes, just from there. I pulled that off after seeing it rattling around, cleaned it all off by soaking it in degreaser for 15 mins, scrubbed it, and now its sealed up like new. No fumes.

Forge WGA springs arrived today, should have the silicone intake elbow this week and going for the final push this weekend....otherwise the final push will be off a cliff :laugh:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

It helps to take a step back sometimes and regroup. Forgetting stuff like the oil cap sounds like exactly that. Frustrated, tired, about to set fire to a bitch. I know this situation well. A fresh, well rested set of eyes can do wonders.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

new forge blue spring added to the WGA and boost leak fixed. Car ran smoothly until the actuator hose blew off  

just finished up taking it apart again to find a decent hose clamp, not sure if I trust this one, this may be the only part on the entire car where a one time use clamp makes sense since its so small.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

toy4two2 said:


> new forge blue spring added to the WGA and boost leak fixed. Car ran smoothly until the actuator hose blew off
> 
> just finished up taking it apart again to find a decent hose clamp, not sure if I trust this one, this may be the only part on the entire car where a one time use clamp makes sense since its so small.


Go to your local Automotive jobber and ask for some Fuel injection hose clamps. These come in a variety of small sizes and are a full wrap style ( no worm gear slots to cut hose ).

I use size 10-13 ( smallest 1/4" ) for all of my WG actuator hoses. Larger sizes such as 13-15 work great for all of the 5/16" line hoses in vacuum system


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Clamps that small suck. They flatten out when compressed. Use a zip tie.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Zip ties wont melt that at that distance. Since the diameter of the nipple is so small, Zip ties are the best option. Dont sell your car.. Fix it!


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> Since the diameter of the nipple is so small, Zip ties are the best option.


Or get silicone hose with a much thicker wall, or flare the tip of the nipple out. I have large barbed nipples on my Tial WG and didn't even need zip ties with the right wall thickness silicone hose.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

20v master said:


> Or get silicone hose with a much thicker wall, or flare the tip of the nipple out. I have large barbed nipples on my Tial WG and didn't even need zip ties with the right wall thickness silicone hose.



agreed ^



The Tial comes with a nice sized barb that should hold it in place. I use to put zip ties on there, but with a heat cycle you don't even need that!


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## Mike.Mike. (Apr 19, 2006)

10k shipped to Buffalo!

Have you replaced coil packs?


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

You really should sell your car. If a vaccum hose and silicone hose has you THIS defeated, you need to leave modding to the professionals and find a new hobby....


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

warranty225cpe said:


> Clamps that small suck. They flatten out when compressed. Use a zip tie.


Huh..what are you talking about? These are Fuel Injector clamps and certified up to 120 psi. I don't know what quality you are buying, but proper FI clamps do NOT flatten out. BTW..these were commonly used on mid 1980's to early 1990's Nissans Toyota's and Honda's as factory clamps. I was journeyman Nissan/Honda Partsman back then and that is what the manufacturers used.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

toy4two2 said:


> I tried those fuel injector ones but they are too big and like above flatten out. I thought about a zip tie but figured the turbo would melt it???


Nonsense..your supplier got you the wrong clamps then. Probably was to lazy to look up the correct ( smallest ) size. 

I've used these for over 15 years on various cars for securing vacuum hoses in the 1/4" to 3/8" OD size. They are made to withstand pressures of 120PSI with no damage of hoses. NEVER had one fail. Period.

Zip ties are a freakin' joke... :thumbdown:

Edit: BTW..if you look at the *factory* WG actuator and Turbo feed hose you will find that it is a thick wall, *re-inforced* silicone hose with a fairly large outside diameter but an inside diameter of approx 1/8". Use the proper clamps with the PROPER hose and you will have a fail safe connection. 

S**T soft wall silicone hose from most aftermarket vendors is just tha.... S**t. Search around hose suppliers and you will be amazed at what you can find.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

toy4two2 said:


> no here is what has me defeated, bought car drove it 300 miles home, water pump blew out, towed the remaining 200 miles. New water pump and timing belt later, drive 5000 miles, coolant spewing out car, water pump seal somehow failed (brand new) replaced at dealer again. Replaced failed sway bar bushing front, PITA. Repacked CV's and boot PITA. replaced all coolant elbows, PITA. Coolant tank (easy), every single hose under mani, plus around engine bay upgraded with Forge silicone, fitted APR tip (PITA). I've torn down the hot and cold sides of the turbo at least 30 times in 1.5 years of ownership to fix boost leaks or other "ish". I spend more time wrenching than driving the thing, all I've wanted to do for the last 1.5 years is drive it to the Grand Cayon or go on some sort of driving trip but each time before the tirp the car needs servicing. 2 02 sensors, 4 sets of spark plugs, 4 new coils, it never seems to end.
> 
> Just when I get it running great with my APR chip and stock K04 the turbo bearing starts whining, then I figure, this is it, I'll drop the $3000 for a F23 kit and install + other things like injectors and fuel pump, and the car drives worse now and leaks oil all over my floor because the turbo oil lines are leaking. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


Actually... I agree with you. I've owned many, many cars and I've found out that most German cars are absolutely THE most complicated and unreliable machines out there. I'm a road racing mechanic ( not by trade but 35+ years of experience ). I have NEVER had any car that has required so much PREVENTATIVE maintenance and so many different things on it fail. 

A used VW/Audi/BMW ( or any German car) is absolutely the worst vehicle to own if you are a student with schooling expenses. But they seem to be popular because they are different ( anti-Ricer ) ...and used VW's can be had cheap. Even used Audi's are fairly cheap. Now you start to find out why :banghead: 

Buy a Japanese car or a Chevy. You may pay more ( particularily with Honda's ) to begin with..but you'' be far ahead in your bank account and lack of frustration level in the long run. IMHO of course. :beer:


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Here's a tip if you want to run something like a MBC to your waste-gate and bypass the N75 valve. Or run an external WG. Keep the sections of FACTORY gray silicone hose that came on the car. They are really good quality and the correct sizes for the smallish turbo nipples. Plus they have re-inforced walls.

Of course they are very short, and most guys throw them out. Don't!! . Use these a a short connecting hose and splice in your aftermarket cheezy soft Silicone crap with a BRASS inline barb adapter. You can get them in various sizes and even staggered sizes. I use a 3/16" - 1/4" barbed coupler. Then you can use the proper Fuel injector clamps as noted above and the OD of the silicone hose is large enough that the calmps work properly. Easy peasy with a little planning :beer:

These are readily available most Automotive suppliers and even at Home Depot and Lowes. Go to the section where they have plumbing for water coolers and ice makers. Watts ( brand name ) makes all kinds of these things. I hit my local Home Depot for brass fittings if my local jobber is closed and I can't get Weather-head Brass fittings.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Little tip on the line going to the wastegate nipple, use hair spray! Spray the nipple and put the line back on and clamp it down with a fuel clamp, don't need to get it so tight it destroys the clamp but get it normal tight. I have never had a clamp that was ment for a fuel line flatten out... :beer:


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

20psi now said:


> Little tip on the line going to the waste-gate nipple, use hair spray! Spray the nipple and put the line back on and clamp it down with a fuel clamp, don't need to get it so tight it destroys the clamp but get it normal tight. I have never had a clamp that was ment for a fuel line flatten out... :beer:


I'm now wondering what they mean by " flatten out". Initially I thought they meant that the clamp was somehow going oval...which just does not happen. Now I wonder if they meant that the threads were " bottoming out "...meaning that you can't tighten the clamp anymore. Terminology is everything :laugh:

If " bottoming out " the threads was the problem, then the solution is simple. Get the proper size clamp with the proper application of hose. Done deal :thumbup: :beer:

I use 3M Black Weatherstrip adhesive on small vacuum/boost fittings ( 1/8 " ) that may be a little loose. Nylon boost gauge feed lines are a good example. Those tiny one use " crimp " clamps can't be used because they would crush the Nylon hose. Coat the Nylon feed line with a bit of Weatherstrip adhesive and then slide it into the vacuum hose. Safe and secure :thumbup:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Chickenman35 said:


> I'm now wondering what they mean by " flatten out". Initially I thought they meant that the clamp was somehow going oval...which just does not happen. Now I wonder if they meant that the threads were " bottoming out "...meaning that you can't tighten the clamp anymore. Terminology is everything :laugh:
> 
> If " bottoming out " the threads was the problem, then the solution is simple. Get the proper size clamp with the proper application of hose. Done deal :thumbup: :beer:
> 
> I use 3M Black Weatherstrip adhesive on small vacuum/boost fittings ( 1/8 " ) that may be a little loose. Nylon boost gauge feed lines are a good example. Those tiny one use " crimp " clamps can't be used because they would crush the Nylon hose. Coat the Nylon feed line with a bit of Weatherstrip adhesive and then slide it into the vacuum hose. Safe and secure :thumbup:


Yes, in my experience the smaller clamps will lose their round shape on the smallest of hoses. Yes, the ones you posted pics of. What do you use on the smaller hoses? Because the "1/4 is too big for small hoses. And there is nothing wrong with using zip ties. To say that they are crap is an ignorant statement. They are crap why? because they are plastic? Or because you dont know how to get them tight enough? If you have the right tool to get a hose clamp tight, you wont have any problems. Ive had zip ties on the hottest of parts that require hose clamps/ties, for many years. Not once have I had any problems. Charge pipe, WG actuator, etc. 

http://www.automationdirect.com/adc...oduct-search&gclid=COeRp6CN57kCFSgS7AodbVgAJw


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

To have to explain to anyone why Zip ties are crap for retaining hoses is simply mind boggling. :facepalm: Figure it out by yourselves.. As Aaron would say. I'm not going to spoon feed you. I've got better things to do than explain the obvious. :beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Chickenman35 said:


> To have to explain to anyone why Zip ties are crap for retaining hoses is simply mind boggling. :facepalm: Figure it out by yourselves.. As Aaron would say. I'm not going to spoon feed you. I've got better things to do than explain the obvious. :beer:


Sounds like you're a bit full of yourself.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> To have to explain to anyone why Zip ties are crap for retaining hoses is simply mind boggling. :facepalm: Figure it out by yourselves.. As Aaron would say. I'm not going to spoon feed you. I've got better things to do than explain the obvious. :beer:


It's why most of the time, I don't even reply........:beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

20v master said:


> It's why most of the time, I don't even reply........:beer:


Another one who thinks he's gods gift to the combustion engine. Get over yourself. "Master" lol


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Sorry, that's not good enough for me. I can get a much more uniform seal from a zip tie. Holds more than 30psi, they hold up to the heat (not like they are touching hot parts directly), and they are cheap. Metal clamps are a pain in the ass, and if you need a small one for small hose, you'*re* SOL. This design doesn't go to the smallest size needed. 

I've given more than enough reason why zip ties can be used. So far all I've heard is uppity BS and opinion as to why you think they are "crap". School us parts guy


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

Lmfao a arguing over zip tie's vs clamps.... I have used zip tie's in a pinch but never on the waste gaet. That's just me though. Like I stated before use hair spray, my main charge pipe (hot side) would blow off all the time. Normal worm clamp held it at 22psi till i found a normal price for some tbolt clamps. 

On a side note I don't see problems with zip tie's as long as you use a plyers on the locking end and pull the sh!t out of them.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Warrnty225cpe:

Thanks for the picture. It's just as I noted. You got sold S**T clamps. Those are extremely poor quality clamps and the wrong size!! They should not be screwed down that far. Your Fail... Good quality FI clamps won't do that. I'll post up pictures of what I use later.

Yes you can use Zip ties on small vacuum lines. I'll give you that. Problem is that the quality of " Cable Ties " varies immensely. They are not designed to be used any where near a high heat source. Get some good quality Cable ties and they might last. " Might being the key word. But how good is the quality at your local Home Depot or Zippys Auto Parts?

Note that I'm using the term " Cable Ties". That is there designed function. Period. They can be used for 1,001 other things and you'll probably get away with it, but every one has stories of cable ties failing, even the big ones. It's usually the ratchet clip that fails. Duct Tape has a 1,001 uses as well. But there is a right way and a wrong way of doing things.

Let me ask you this. Show me a single car manufacturer that uses Zip ties to tighten vacuum lines. One..Uno. They all use metal clamps in high heat areas or high heat alligator jaw clamps ( Plastic ) in non-critical areas. 

Next go out and buy a some technical books. Here are some good starting points:

1: Paul Van Valkenburgh's " Race Car Engineering and Mechanics " ISBN 0-9617425-0-X

http://www.amazon.com/Race-Engineer...8-1&keywords=Race+Car+Engineering+Engineering

2: Carroll Smith's "Tune To Win, The Art and Science of Race Car Developemnt and Tuning " ISBN 

http://www.amazon.com/Tune-Win-scie...F8&qid=1380218297&sr=8-1&keywords=Tune+To+Win

3: Carroll Smith's " Prepare to Win, The Nuts and Bolts guide to Professional Race Car Preparation" 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Tune To Win

4: Herb Adams Chassis Engineering 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=Tune To Win


These are where I got my SCHOOLING brother. *These are written by engineering Masters* And Zip ties aren't an acceptable choice for ANYTHING in these books....except as CABLE TIES. 

Look dude. I'm not trying to be an *******. I'm trying to educate people on doing things the right way. Knowledge is power, and I've gained a lot of knowledge by listening to people a lot smarter than myself. And books ar a huge source of info. Stop buying EuroTuner mags and other such garbage ( if you do so...I'm not saying that you do. Just a general FYI ). Start buying magazines such as Race Car engineering and Race Car tech. Then you'll learn something.

I also come from a long Road Racing and Hillclimb back ground. Hillclimbs are particularly dangerous with 200 - 300 ft drop offs ( no guardrails ) and Big Ass Trees to hit at 100 MPH plus. We cannot afford ANY mechanical failures on a car when we race. *Even the SLIGHTEST failure could prove fatal*!!!

So that's why I'm so anal about proper car preparation and the right way of doing things and the wrong way. 

Read my signature at the bottom of my posts; I stole that from Joe Cheng.. a good friend of mine who I grew up with. So is Gary Milligan. Now go Google Joe Cheng and Gary Milligan. Those Dudes are way smarter than me ( in some aspects ) and they taught me a lot when I was younger. 

Schools out!!! :wave:


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

20psi now said:


> Lmfao a arguing over zip tie's vs clamps.... I have used zip tie's in a pinch but never on the waste gaet. That's just me though. Like I stated before use hair spray, my main charge pipe (hot side) would blow off all the time. Normal worm clamp held it at 22psi till i found a normal price for some tbolt clamps.
> 
> On a side note I don't see problems with zip tie's as long as you use a plyers on the locking end and pull the sh!t out of them.


Yeah..it's ****ing ridiculous. I don't know why I bother. I'm dealing with settling my father's Estate, been waiting 3 months for a Hernia operation and not working during that tiem ( fortunately covered by Insurance ) and acting as a referee between my niece and her Mother. I must be frackin' stoopid!! :banghead:

Actually...come to think of it. It's probably a relief for me to come here and argue :laugh:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Chickenman35 said:


> Warrnty225cpe:
> 
> 
> *Yes you can use Zip ties on small vacuum lines. I'll give you that*.


Thats all you had to say. And thats all I use them for. BTW you really come off as an *******. But I guess your snob, wana-be elitist attitude is just par for the course. While you were playing "parts guy" I was elbow and knee deep in this ****, working on things youve probably never heard of. Why such a dick? You feeling froggy behind that keyboard?


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

warranty225cpe said:


> Thats all you had to say. And thats all I use them for. BTW you really come off as an *******. But I guess your snob, wana-be elitist attitude is just par for the course. While you were playing "parts guy" I was elbow and knee deep in this ****, working on things youve probably never heard of. Why such a dick? You feeling froggy behind that keyboard?


Hmmmm. I thought I posted a well thought out reply that explained clearly my position and reasoning for my thoughts. I also provided some good links to engineering books that may be of benefit to other readers. But I guess literacy and attention span are not your strong suites if all you got out of that was a partial sentence. :laugh: ( and yes, I'm needling you and being purposefully sarcastic. It's getting quite amusing now. Aaron's rubbing off on me!! ) 

You know. it takes one to know one... Now lets agree to tell each other to F**k off and quit wasting bandwidth. We'd probably get along fine in person..but over these message boards you come across as much as a Poser Dickhead Fanboy.,as I do a sanctimonious know it all... 

End of my replies to this.. I'll be nice now. Have a nice day :wave:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> Takes one to know one... Now lets agree to tell each other to F**k off and quit wasting bandwidth. We'd probably get along fine in person..but over these message boards you come across as much as a Poser Dickhead Fanboy. as I do a sanctimonious know it all...
> 
> End of my replies to this.. Have a nice day :laugh:


opcorn:


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## barelyboosting1.8t (Nov 18, 2002)

In all this immense knowledge you posted, did you ever consider the fact that the DO make STEEL zip ties and straps? Or even maybe consider the oem style crimp clamps that work GREAT for smaller lines?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Chickenman35 said:


> Hmmmm. I thought I posted a well thought out reply that explained clearly my position and reasoning for my thoughts. I also provided some good links to engineering books that may be of benefit to other readers. But I guess literacy and attention span are not your strong suites if all you got out of that was a partial sentence. :laugh: ( and yes, I'm needling you and being purposefully sarcastic. It's getting quite amusing now. Aaron's rubbing off on me!! )
> 
> You know. it takes one to know one... Now lets agree to tell each other to F**k off and quit wasting bandwidth. We'd probably get along fine in person..but over these message boards you come across as much as a Poser Dickhead Fanboy.,as I do a sanctimonious know it all...
> 
> End of my replies to this.. I'll be nice now. Have a nice day :wave:


Yup, talk a bunch of ****, then sign off. Next thing you know you and Adam will be dating :heart:

And btw, we wouldnt be friends if we knew each other. I would immediately recognize you as someone that talks a big game on the internet, and stuff you in the nearest trash can. :beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

barelyboosting1.8t said:


> In all this immense knowledge you posted, did you ever consider the fact that the DO make STEEL zip ties and straps? Or even maybe consider the oem style crimp clamps that work GREAT for smaller lines?


Nope, he let his ego get in the way.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> Yup, talk a bunch of ****, then sign off. Next thing you know you and Adam will be dating :heart:
> 
> And btw, we wouldnt be friends if we knew each other. I would immediately recognize you as someone that talks a big game on the internet, and stuff you in the nearest trash can. :beer:


He was trying to let it go, but you let your big ego get in the way just like you claim he did, so you can continue to talk a big game on the internet, just like you accused him of doing. It's funny how you're regularly telling people the same BS over and over how you'd "stuff them in a trash can" because of their ego, then display the same behavior that that they did that makes you so angry in the first place. Oh, and don't forget the feeble attempt at childish insults to boot. Eric =  I should have stopped by while I was in S. FL last weekend, but alas, time wouldn't permit. It would have given you a chance to really show how tough you are, and we all know how much you want to do that. :beer: Use Zip Ties cable clamps whatever the hell you want to call them. Either way, it's your car, so be ghetto if you like.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

20v master said:


> He was trying to let it go, but you let your big ego get in the way just like you claim he did, so you can continue to talk a big game on the internet, just like you accused him of doing. It's funny how you're regularly telling people the same BS over and over how you'd "stuff them in a trash can" because of their ego, then display the same behavior that that they did that makes you so angry in the first place. Oh, and don't forget the feeble attempt at childish insults to boot. Eric =  I should have stopped by while I was in S. FL last weekend, but alas, time wouldn't permit. It would have given you a chance to really show how tough you are, and we all know how much you want to do that. :beer: Use Zip Ties cable clamps whatever the hell you want to call them. Either way, it's your car, so be ghetto if you like.


Next time you're in town, don't hesitate to stop by. Because I would love to stomp your ass into the ground too. Make no mistake, that is a threat.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> Next time you're in town, don't hesitate to stop by. Because I would love to stomp your ass into the ground too. Make no mistake, that is a threat.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

opcorn:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

20v master said:


>


Wait.. You just said you were gonna stop by my house? What happened, did you keep on driving because you know I'd murder your bitch-ass? I bet that's what happened. If at anytime you think I'm just talking out of my ass, drop on by. Until then, keep running your mouth hiding behind your computer. After all, that is what you do best. I pray to god that your dumb enough to come through. Find out what I'm really about. I haven't had a confirmed kill since 2001. Maybe you'll get lucky, who knows?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Toy4two, sorry to derail your thread. These *******s and their BS cant be ignored. Internet bullies are a dime a dozen. Until they run into me in person, or someone of like mind and abilities. These pussies will forever hide behind their computers because they don't have a pair of balls between them. My apologies for getting off track.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

toy4two2 - sorry to hear about your troubles, once the set up is solid, you will truly enjoy it. comparing this to other makes isn't feasible, I doubt you upgraded turbo's before so it's a learning experience.



warranty - you need to chill out bro, threatening to beat someone up over an argument I can understand, but telling someone you will kill them is a whole different story! we have enough crazy crime (like recently down the street from me in the Navy Yards) so let's not try and add to it over something as silly as zip ties KWIM? Feel free to PM if you want so not to further pollute this thread


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> got a kinda bad ass error code
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Whoa! Never seen/heard of that before.


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## jacobm (Aug 5, 2011)

I've gotten that with error before with stock turbo. Even my mechanic had never seen it before.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

I don't remember going deep into the red, but the turbo has a mind of its own, could jump up to 25 then down to 5 without the wastegate effectively hooked up.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

What are you running for boost control again?


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

nothing right now no wastegate control for the moment  first N75 with gonzo tuning, failing that inline MBC with N75


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

toy4two2 said:


> got a kinda bad ass error code


Ross Tech just changed the displayed code to show the extra warranty stuff, it was a running joke to screw with noobs. It just means you had a mechanical over rev, most likely from a mishift..


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

*blown turbo*

Just got the call from my mechanic. It took 3 Audi specialists to figure out the oil leak because the whole engine is coated in oil. They said its the cold side of the turbo. This is the second shop that has diagnoised the oil leak to there :facepalm: I hope the guy on vortex ALMSTT who sold me the kit burns in hell.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Sorry to hear it. :-( Not that it makes it better, but you know how to fix it now.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

toy4two2 said:


> Just got the call from my mechanic. It took 3 Audi specialists to figure out the oil leak because the whole engine is coated in oil. They said its the cold side of the turbo. This is the second shop that has diagnoised the oil leak to there :facepalm: I hope the guy on vortex ALMSTT who sold me the kit burns in hell.


**** man, sorry to hear it. Looks like its time to replace it. Its gotta be better than continuing to troubleshoot.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

For the record I have been using a worm clamp on my FT TIP since day one and haven't had any issue. I prefer t-bolts but it would just cause the TIP to slip off as noted by others. A worm gear clamp was able to tighten down properly and not move.:thumbup:

OP..hang in there man, it's all part of the game and part of the learning experience. :beer:


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Twopnt016v said:


> For the record I have been using a worm clamp on my FT TIP since day one and haven't had any issue. I prefer t-bolts but it would just cause the TIP to slip off as noted by others. A worm gear clamp was able to tighten down properly and not move.:thumbup:


TIP's don't see boost, only vacuum. Worm clamps are fine for all connections on a TIP. It's the charge piping where they are inadequate.


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

Oops! Yeah I'm familiar it only sees vac. I guess I got confused by all the madness going on here. I though originally the OP said his TIP was torn by a worm clamp. After looking back I see he said boost pipe or whatever. :thumbup:
I still have a worm gear on one of my charge pipe connections that sees 30psi But yeah...t-bolts are best.


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## 20v master (May 7, 2009)

Twopnt016v said:


> I still have a worm gear on one of my charge pipe connections that sees 30psi But yeah...t-bolts are best.


Well, the OEM clamps are worm, but the piping is rigid to the motor and the long OEM hoses with bends help absorb a lot of flex, so they CAN work, but like you said, aren't the best.


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## toy4two2 (Feb 6, 2012)

Last thoughts, do not buy a siliconeintakes.com 90 reducer elbow, I bought all three sizes and none fit, not the right offset, its actually less than 90 on the car stock.

First I put a nice silicone line to the wastegate and a hose clamp actually fit it correctly since its larger/harder than the stock lines. 

However, with the MBC installed and bleeding 100% into the wastegate hose inline with the N75 car runs terrific, only boosts to 12 psi, but I'll take it. No more hard or soft limps and inconsisent peak boost.

Thanks to Doug and Gonzo and everyone else that sent me PMs and the rest of the Vortexer's in this thread, I really appreciate all the support.


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