# Phaeton stuck in gear, no warning message



## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

Hi,
Driving home tonight all gears lit up and car was stuck in what felt like 3rd gear. I have been in "limp mode" before and did not feel the same as could freely accelerate at 50mph (revved 3000rpm at 50)
No error on console and when restarted engine the gears were not all lit (haven't driven again as waiting for garage to open tomorrow).
Pic at the time:








Have recently had a gearbox judder and 2 weeks ago I had a transmission fluid flush. Judder subsided after flush but has been gradually been getting worse. No burnt smell from fluid but it was dirty.
3.0 Tdi 54 reg with 96K miles.
I will book in to garage tomorrow to hook up to diagnostic, I have read elsewhere that some Touareg have had similar but not heard before regarding Phaeton, tried "search" within forum posts but haven't found same symptoms, any advice / comments greatly appreciated.
James


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

..also whilst gears were lit I tried changing to "manual" selector but the gear would not change up or down, moved to sport gear selection but did not change gear either. Gear Changed down and up when below 30mph but as gears were lit I couldn't tell which gear it was in at any point in time.
The gear would not stay in 5th immediately before the problem, either went straight to 4th or back to 6th with only a split second in 5th.


_Modified by phaetonjim at 11:51 AM 3-2-2010_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

James:
My best guess, based on the fact that you recently had the fluid serviced, is that the fluid level is not correct - there is either too much or too little in the transmission.
The process for filling the transmission is very complex, there is an explanation here: Changing Transmission Fluid, Checking Transmission Fluid Level.
The other possibility, which I most sincerely hope is not the case, is that the service facility put the wrong fluid in the transmission. There are many different fluids out there, and it is critical that the correct fluid be used. I believe there is a discussion about fluid types and fluid specifications on that same post I cited above.
Michael


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael
Thank you for your reply. I read the excellent thread you directed me to whilst the car was in for the fluid change.
After reading the thread I asked them how many litres they used, 9, if they needed the car overnight, yes, and the part number of fluid, VG055005A2 which ties in to the one used for 09L transmission (which I now hope mine is?). They replaced the gasket, plug, strainer, as mentioned in your thread and they took it for three test drives, before, after main fill and in morning after top up.
They had 2 luxury technicians in the car for each of the test drives and as all of the answers came back as I expected after reading your thorough guide I was happy that they had done a good job.
My first conversation tomorrow will be to ask them to check the fluid level, thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it. Also for the excellent guides on the sticky thread which has helped me work out how the functions work !!
James


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Could this be a problem with the shifter plate?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3750216
HH


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (Prince Ludwig)*

Thanks for the link. I guess I will find out if it has cleared itself when I am brave enough to drive it again. If the fault has gone away I will show the garage the thread.
Either way I will ask garage to perform diagnostic to see if any faults were saved. I will update you on my findings and add to the other thread, if relevant.
Thank you.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

James: 
Let's hope Michael is correct about an incorrect fill of the transmission, which it certainly could be. Something very similar happened to mine and I too just had my fluid changed multiple times by my VW dealer due to very harsh downshifts. About a month after the fluid exchange, my transmission slipped badly or kicked out of gear and went into what I'd describe as limp mode - locked in a fairly high gear but low enough to start off from a dead stop. I also had all gear lights displayed when it malfunctioned. After a shutdown and restart about an hour later, the transmission behaved normally with no more "all gears" lit in the display and 1-6 gears were available for forward driving. I did drive straight to the dealer which was around 15 miles with no problems. I suspect your fault has left a diagnostic error code that the dealer will be able to access. 
VW chose to replace my transmission under the CPO warranty. Let's hope your solution is less invasive.


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## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

*Re: Phaeton stuck in gear, no warning message (phaetonjim)*

That's unbelievable.
The same thing happened to me yesterday afternoon.
All of a sudden all the gears lit up and moving the shifter to manual didn't change anything. I did not notice any difference in performance though.
I quickly parked, shut down the car and restarted and it went back to normal. No error on the display either.
My shift lever has been lose ever since I've had the car and it would move at least 1/4" in any gear (quite lose) and I kept getting the "Move Selector to P" message whenever I would shut down the car.
I ended up having the shifter handle replaced under warranty a few weeks ago and all was well until what happened yesterday.


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *04phaeton* »_All of a sudden all the gears lit up and moving the shifter to manual didn't change anything. I did not notice any difference in performance though.
...
My shift lever has been lose ever since I've had the car and it would move at least 1/4" in any gear (quite lose) and I kept getting the "Move Selector to P" message whenever I would shut down the car.

Sounds like this could indeed be the shifter plate that Harry mentioned above. I had very similar issues after doing my keyless start but before I put the shifter back on correctly. 
James' issues sounds more like a transmission problem to me though. 

Best Regards,
Nate


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (Jxander)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jxander* »_
VW chose to replace my transmission under the CPO warranty. Let's hope your solution is less invasive.

Car booked in for tomorrow morning *crosses fingers*


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaetonjim* »_
Car booked in for tomorrow morning *crosses fingers*

Hope it's not bad news... or maybe just an absence of news...
Mine has twice exhibted the multifuncton display that James has photographed, but gear changing was normal (as far I remember). When cycled through stop/key out/start it behved normally afterwards. both times it was just after staring from cold. Hasn't done it for six months now.
Just looking at the photo... I wonder if it's an adverse reaction to Radio 2??


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (n968412L)*

Hahahahahaha! Definitely, if Terry Wogan was on at the time. Is he still even on Radio 2??


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*

Car went in.
Funnily enough the radio station was changed when I got back in the car, I guess you need to eliminate all possibilities !
Not funnily enough is that a gearbox replacement was the only next option £5158 ($7800 ish).
The fault read as "fault with 5th gear clutch solenoid" and it seems to be a problem with the friction plates?
A reconditioning centre quoted £3000 +
Now assessing options.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Oh bollocks! Sorry to hear that Jim.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Jim:
Sorry to hear that also. You may want to check with KCPhaetonTech now that you have some diagnostics. I think some of the solenoids are accessible without removing the transmission. However, if it is the friction plates that's another story. 
I didn't want to be too pessimistic, but I had a feeling that was what you would hear. Your situation sounded too much like what I had experienced and mine was the same solution even when VW was footing the bill under the CPO warranty.
A reconditioning center will probably be very good at rebuilding the transmission once it is removed. My only concern with going that route would be that the engine, transmission, and frontend must all be removed as a unit and I doubt anyone except VW has the rolling dolley(table) capable of safely supporting the entire unit. I certainly would ask how they planned to do the removal and installation.
Good luck.


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (Jxander)*

I had prepared for the worst too, just from looking at other experiences including Touareg, etc.
Heed warning to change ATF before I did and seriously consider extended warranty. If I had extended warranty I would still be a Phaeton owner in a month's time, now it is not so certain.
J


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Jim, how much did the fluid change cost you? I've been wondering about having mine done at the next service.


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

I had mine rebuilt by JT Automatics in Erith Kent, not amillion miles from you
They did a fabulous job, even managing to remove the box on its own from underneath (no mean feat with the V10)
Total cost was £1800.00
best of all unlike most rebuilders they give a 2 year 24000ml warranty


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Hope you find a way through this.... a real real pain.
Let us know how you get on.... hope someone else has some more practical help too... not just sympathy...
M


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8secondquarters* »_I had mine rebuilt by JT Automatics in Erith Kent, not amillion miles from you
They did a fabulous job, even managing to remove the box on its own from underneath (no mean feat with the V10)
Total cost was Â£1800.00
best of all unlike most rebuilders they give a 2 year 24000ml warranty

That could be just the answer I am looking for, I will phone them in the morning, they are only 20 miles from me and great that they have worked on at least one Phaeton before (rebuilders I phoned earlier had not heard of a Phaeton).
Extract from their website breaks down cost as follows:
Gearbox £995.00 
Torque Converter £190.00 
Labour £290.00 
Fluids £50.00 
------------ 
Subtotal £1,525.00 
VAT at 17.5% £266.88 
------------ 
Total Price £1,791.88 
I may ask how they get the fluids so cheap, and possible use of VW part number for ATF instead.
Thanks again, I am quite optimistic now.
J


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (invisiblewave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *invisiblewave* »_Jim, how much did the fluid change cost you? I've been wondering about having mine done at the next service.

£470 = $700:








J (if bad etiquette to post invoice extracts I will edit post and remove)



_Modified by phaetonjim at 1:44 PM 3-4-2010_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Hmmmm. Roughly a third of the cost of having the thing reconditioned!!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phaetonjim* »_...(if bad etiquette to post invoice extracts I will edit post and remove)...

Hi Jim:
Nothing wrong with that at all - it is useful information, helpful to everyone else.
Michael


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## Aren Jay (Jun 9, 2009)

Wow this bring back memories of having my Oil changed in England for my 86 Mustang GT cobra. Except the bill was twice as much, the Toyota place used gold plated oil (or it cost enough to be) and after spending 492 pounds for an oil change and rad flush I was seriously considering starting a jiffy lube franchise over there. This was back in the 90's.
Also considered selling window and door screens, settled for buying cheese cloth and the strange looks cheese cloth drapes generated. (do they have window screens in England yet?)
Any how glad your transmission is diagnosed and that you will find an affordable way to fix everything. The Phaeton has to be the poster car for extended warranties. England has to be the poster place for expensive car repairs. 
Good luck


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: (Aren Jay)*

My experience has been the opposite. Having my car repaired in the US (with the exception of Jiffy Lube!) has felt generally much more expensive, hence I started doing repairs myself. The in-and-out oil change places over here are great though! I think the reason they don't have them in Britain is that people are nowhere near as anal about changing their oil, you generally get it done with the regular service and that's it, although I do know some DIYers who do it more often than that. Phaeton parts are also cheaper over there. I brought back a lower door trim last time I went because it was $100 here and £45 there. The oil itself is a lot more expensive there, as are all petroleum products, due to the tax on them.
Didn't someone post a price for a W12 tranny fluid change that was around $2000??


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (8secondquarters)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8secondquarters* »_I had mine rebuilt by JT Automatics in Erith Kent, not amillion miles from you

Booked in with them for next Tuesday £1975 + 17.5% VAT, they sounded good on the phone. Thanks for pointing me in their direction.
J


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## perfrej (Dec 24, 2009)

*Re: Phaeton stuck in gear, no warning message (phaetonjim)*

What kind of transmissions do we all have, anyway? Is it ZF as in the Audis?
I have seen a number of simular incidents on Audis - A8 and A4, and it's always been the clutches and their cages that have been worn down.
For som reason that I do not know, Audi always suggests a new transmission, while having it refurbished shoud be just as good if not better. Then you know the state of things.


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## 04phaeton (Feb 19, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (ruddyone)*

Nate,
It wasn't the shifter plate.
It gave off an error code F189 I think.
Phaeton Mechanic said that's a fault with the tiptronic sensor.
Since it's intermittent, I'll get it fixed next time I'm in (waiting for parts for other repairs as well).


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (04phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *04phaeton* »_...It wasn't the shifter plate. It gave off an error code F189 I think. Phaeton Mechanic said that's a fault with the tiptronic sensor...

F189 indicates that the Tiptronic 'upshift' switch has a fault, specifically an open circuit or a short to positive.
This could be caused by a shifter plate problem - in fact, when I broke the shifter plate on my car during my first install of the start button (details on the "Start Button Install" thread, this was the exact code that I got.
It is possible that the problem could be elsewhere, but I rather suspect it is the shifter plate.
Michael


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## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Jim,
I have sent you a PM that could save you some money.
Anthony


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (04phaeton)*

See this post for additional discussion and photos of the shifter plate (Tiptronic Control): Retrofitting Keyless Start to Phaetons that are equipped with Keyless Entry.
The information about the Tiptronic plate is on the second page of that discussion.
Michael


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## phaetonjim (Feb 6, 2010)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Got car back, the friction plates were worn/glazed and replaced and everything reconditioned, but I still have a judder whilst driving home.
Putting all my efforts toward imminent arrivival of baby (due date this Monday 15th) so will resume after the birth.
First port of call will be to check fluid level but this is a real nuisance.
J


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

*Re: (phaetonjim)*

Sorry it's worrying you at a time when you should have other things on your mind! First baby?? Or do you know what to expect! Hope all goes really really well.
Be interested to know a bit more about the judder symptoms - but not urgently. 
Good luck!
M


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