# A3 (8v) MQB 2.0T Plastic Oil Pan = No Block Heater?? It gets to -40C in winter here!



## Dr Quagmire (Mar 27, 2014)

Hey peeps,

So I recently found out that my new A3 has a plastic oil pan and according to the dealership in Edmonton a block heater cannot be installed on it. I am moving to Cold Lake Alberta where at times during the winter can go down to -40C. This of course is no good for cold starts and could seriously damage the engine. When I was told there could be no block heater I was pissed so I'm asking the community here if anyone has any suggestions on what I can do to warm up the engine block before starting it in the extreme cold.

I've written a scathing letter to Audi since nowhere does it mention I won't be able to protect my engine from the extreme cold weather. I don't know what they were thinking , selling a car in Canada that is basically useless in most of the country in the winter. I wish they would have told me this before I bought the damn thing. Otherwise it's a great car but come on Audi, serious epic fail here.

The only thing I can think of is getting an aftermarket aluminum oil pan that would allow a block heater and not melt it. Any advice is appreciated!


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

Dr Quagmire said:


> Hey peeps,
> 
> So I recently found out that my new A3 has a plastic oil pan and according to the dealership in Edmonton a block heater cannot be installed on it. I am moving to Cold Lake Alberta where at times during the winter can go down to -40C. This of course is no good for cold starts and could seriously damage the engine. When I was told there could be no block heater I was pissed so I'm asking the community here if anyone has any suggestions on what I can do to warm up the engine block before starting it in the extreme cold.
> 
> ...



You can use a lower viscosity engine oil during the winter months as well, ie: 0w-40 it'll flow smoother than the recommended 5w-40 in extreme cold.

You seem to be confusing a block heater with an oil pan heater. A block heater warms up the "engine" itself, not the oil, and wouldn't be affected by a plastic oil pan.

They also make engine heater blankets (ie: an electric blanket designed to wrap around your engine) and dipstick heaters which, you guessed it, replace the dipstick with a heater.


That being said. It doesn't matter, my car started just fine after being left outside in -40 temperature during the last "polar vortex". And if it's that cold, a little friction to help warm up the engine really isn't going to hurt it as much. Just drive it gentle, when it was -40 last winter, my car never fully warmed up, even after 45 minutes of driving.

But yes, modern cars don't actually need block heaters anymore, at least down to -50, thanks to low viscosity oils 0w and 5w which simply didn't exist 20 years ago.

A trickle charger isn't a bad idea to invest in though.


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## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

Dr Quagmire said:


> Hey peeps,
> 
> So I recently found out that my new A3 has a plastic oil pan and according to the dealership in Edmonton a block heater cannot be installed on it. I am moving to Cold Lake Alberta where at times during the winter can go down to -40C. This of course is no good for cold starts and could seriously damage the engine. When I was told there could be no block heater I was pissed so I'm asking the community here if anyone has any suggestions on what I can do to warm up the engine block before starting it in the extreme cold.
> 
> ...


Seeing my vehicle before this Audi was a diesel and it never had anything but a trickle charger, and it worked fine in all the temperatures, the Audi should be fine. It you want to warm up quicker in the winter just cover up the front, and possibly add the trickle charger.


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## NCAM (Aug 30, 2015)

I would argue strongly against the opinion that block heaters are not required on a vehicle. I suppose it all depends on whether you want to keep the car past a few years or not.

I lived for several years in Saskatoon. No doubt, the improvment in oils have made a huge difference. However to suggest this is enough to avoid having to preheat the oil and block is a stretch. Just because the vehicle will start at -40 doesn't mean that it is a good idea! The most amount of engine wear is occurring on cold start, and until the oil and engine reach operating temperature. The oil is designed to work most effectively at operating temperatures. The longer you take to get the oil to that temperature, wear is at its worst.

When I was regularly dealing with low temperatures, I did a few experiments. I left several grades of oil in clear containers in the trunk of the vehicle, and observed their behaviour in the range of anywhere from -10 to -40 C. Not surprisingly, the conventional 5W30 was like thick molasses at -30. I had a bottle of 0W30 synthetic as well, which at -40 was still flowing, but not at the rate that I felt was good to have the engine trying to move around with no preheat.

As suggested, I would try and confirm where this block heater would be installed. It shouldn't be in the pan, but in the block instead to preheat the coolant and the block itself. 

My routine with my vehicle was using both a block heater, and an electic heating pad that was RTVed onto the pan. Obviously the electric pad is not going to work for the bottom of your oil pan. There are dipstick heaters, but I have read you do need to be careful (I don't know if this is true) that since the oil is stationary and not moving, that some heaters can apply only localized heat to the oil, and it doesn't heat the oil in the sump that well. 

Now with all this being said, this relied on me having a place to plug all of this in. When I was able to, the engine fired up right away, and sounded much better than when I had to park somewhere I was unable to plug in and preheat the block and oil.

Like I said at the beginning, if you don't plan to keep the vehicle that long, maybe this doesn't matter. But if you do want to keep it 5+ years, I think you would be a fool not to try and find a method of heating the block and oil. 

Anyhow if you want more info, feel free to message me. I did quite a bit of research on all of this and I can elaborate more.

Mike


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## ERTW (Jan 17, 2000)

NCAM said:


> I would argue strongly against the opinion that block heaters are not required on a vehicle. I suppose it all depends on whether you want to keep the car past a few years or not.
> 
> I lived for several years in Saskatoon. No doubt, the improvment in oils have made a huge difference. However to suggest this is enough to avoid having to preheat the oil and block is a stretch. Just because the vehicle will start at -40 doesn't mean that it is a good idea! The most amount of engine wear is occurring on cold start, and until the oil and engine reach operating temperature. The oil is designed to work most effectively at operating temperatures. The longer you take to get the oil to that temperature, wear is at its worst.
> 
> ...


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## Reznor909 (Jul 27, 2015)

*WTF? No Block Heater?*

This has me concerned too. I just ordered a 2016 S3 with ETA in December and never even thought to ask if it came with a block heater or not. Low-viscosity oil simply does not cut it when it gets to -40, as others have said. I'm going to double-check with my dealer and see what's what...


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## NCAM (Aug 30, 2015)

If you want me to dig out my oil analyses I had done over a couple of years, that what I have to go on. It's by no means formal research, I didn't mean to sell it like that. All I know is that I had more positive results with what I was doing than I had done before. It was more out of concern that I was trying to do the best I could for my vehicle. I suppose I should have said it isn't necessary, but it worked well for me. You are entitled to do whatever you want!


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

Fuel injection and zero winter weight oil have combined to make the engine safe to start in very low temperatures.

Engines with a carburetor used to have this problem, because the fuel wouldn't properly mix well with air and would cause freezing since the misting causes the intake temps to decrease even further. (Hell, it's actually still a problem with older/smaller airplanes that regularly fly into freezing conditions)

And conventional motor oil will simply freeze into a solid.

Batteries however, have not advanced to the point where they don't need to be heated up / topped off in the extreme cold.

So assume you install a block heater, say the install plus parts is 250 bucks. Sounds reasonable right? an Engine is 2000 dollars! Protect your investment!

Oh, except that heater will cost you about 150 dollars a year to run. Ok, so your engine will last 11 years instead of 10 years. Oh, and your heater breaks down after 6 years, so you buy and install another one.

How much money did you save, and how much time and effort was required to maintain that system versus DOING NOTHING.


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## lilmira (Feb 4, 2014)

I don't remember the last time I plugged in any of my vehicles. But then they are always parked inside the garage where it may get to -10 overnight. There were may be several days a year when it was very cold during the day and my car was parked outside. Never had any problem. I think it's more damaging to open up your throttle before your engine is warmed up like I see many people do. I drive like a grandma for the first 5-10 minutes in winter.


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

Antariusz said:


> Fuel injection and zero winter weight oil have combined to make the engine safe to start in very low temperatures.
> 
> Engines with a carburetor used to have this problem, because the fuel wouldn't properly mix well with air and would cause freezing since the misting causes the intake temps to decrease even further. (Hell, it's actually still a problem with older/smaller airplanes that regularly fly into freezing conditions)
> 
> ...


Replacing the engine in an S3 is most assuredly not only $2000.


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## Antariusz (Nov 19, 2014)

TBomb said:


> Replacing the engine in an S3 is most assuredly not only $2000.


Sure, it will, or at least equivalent money, when your engine fails catastrophically in 2027, with 150,000 miles, because of all the extra wear and tear because you didn't plug it in during the winter... 

Hell you'll just go down to the junk yard where everyone else trashed their internal combustion engines cars with gas prices at 12, dollars a gallon everyone will have already begun the switch to electric cars, he'll with the new fusion reactors going online someday, we might be able to fill up our electric cars with 400 mile range for 5 dollars instead of 8 dollars, back like they used to with those early model Teslas Back when the S3 was new (in the days when Justin Bieber was an entertainer and not a politician). Oh, you mean you don't plan on keeping your car until 2027? Don't worry about it then.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

Dr Quagmire said:


> Hey peeps,
> 
> I've written a scathing letter to Audi since nowhere does it mention I won't be able to protect my engine from the extreme cold weather. I don't know what they were thinking , selling a car in Canada that is basically useless in most of the country in the winter. I wish they would have told me this before I bought the damn thing. Otherwise it's a great car but come on Audi, serious epic fail here.
> )


I'm totally not intending to troll you, I'm sure this is an issue you have to deal with considering the aptly named "Cold Lake" ... but lets be honest "most of" Canada is uninhabited or has a population density lower than most car dealerships. The number of cars they sell in the area that is capable of reaching those extreme temperatures can most likely be tallied even on the mutilated hands of industrial revolution era children.

My advice is move south if you really think its going to be an issue, or invest in a heated garage. Sadly Audi isn't so much at fault as society is for expanding into areas of temperature extremes, Audi still sells a functional car to 99.95 percent of the worlds population based on temperature band alone. Righteous indignation is only so valid here...


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## zachW (Oct 17, 2005)

I live in Cold Lake as well and you have come here for a very warm start to this winter!! There is no option to put a block heater in my car either, as I have a mk4 Jetta. I put in a $100 oil pan heater. It adheres to your oil pan and you plug it in. You have a plastic pan, so I'm not sure if you can use that, but you could switch to the metal oil pan and put it on there. 

Option #1 Oil pan heater









A inline coolant heater(aka Webasto) is installed into the coolant circuit and it heats your coolant while plugged in. When you go start your car in the morning you are at full operating temperature. Which is also nice because your car is blowing hot air instantly rather than waiting until you move the car to make it to operating temperatures.

Option #2 Inline coolant heater









What are the specs on your battery? Your battery's cold cranking amps are very important. My stock battery in my car was only 330 CCA and even plugged in was not enough on the cold nights. I purchased the largest battery that would still fit in the factory position and cost $150 but has 750 CCA and have never had an issue since. You can also buy a battery warmer to plug in and keep your battery warm but I find this unnecessary. I'm sure to run 5w-40 oil by the time the cold weather comes around.

CAA membership is worth every dollar in a climate like this. Even if you get a flat, you do not want to deal with the small shoulders on the road with large semis flying bye while its really cold. Get the membership and have the option to get towed to a shop to get your car fixed and not freeze your butt off.


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## zachW (Oct 17, 2005)

I forgot about a winter front as well. Some vehicle's rad will take on the cool air a little too well and on the highway it will cool the coolant below operating levels. Do not cut a piece of cardboard or insulation to put behind your grill though. You'll see $80,000 vehicles and then a poorly cut piece of cardboard zip tied to the front... a shame.


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