# Arteon USA Sales



## SDArteon (Jun 16, 2019)

Just for fun, Arteon sales accross USA to date.

April: 78
May: 245
June 275

I have not see another Arteon out on the roads yet - anyone else see Arteons?


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## randyvr6 (Aug 17, 1999)

I live in a 4WD Full Size Pickup truck area. There is no way I would ever see one around here lol


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

Those sales numbers are higher than I expected, but I haven't seen another one on the road yet.
Where did you find this info?


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## randyvr6 (Aug 17, 1999)

Are these retail sales to consumers or dealerships?


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## techlogik (Feb 9, 2004)

I'm at the dealer now for a service bulletin on my 2019 Jetta. They have an Arteon, low level model on the floor. Looks like a CC with the new touchscreen in the middle. ROFL. How much they want for this thing? I wouldn't buy one. Of course all the marketing stuff showing the full blown Mac daddy out version it looks better...but still. Not for that price. $51k?!?!

https://ibb.co/jJNvKcB

https://ibb.co/sW9Bnsg


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

techlogik said:


> I'm at the dealer now for a service bulletin on my 2019 Jetta. They have an Arteon, low level model on the floor. Looks like a CC with the new touchscreen in the middle. ROFL. How much they want for this thing? I wouldn't buy one. Of course all the marketing stuff showing the full blown Mac daddy out version it looks better...but still. Not for that price. $51k?!?!
> 
> https://ibb.co/jJNvKcB
> 
> https://ibb.co/sW9Bnsg



Did I read the window sticker wrong or does that say $39000, not $51000!!!

The Arteon is not for someone who wants a car that point a to point b transportation. If you are looking for something that is more cost effective, the Jetta is the way to go. The new Jetta is a lot of car for the money.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

The G Man said:


> Did I read the window sticker wrong or does that say $39000, not $51000!!!
> 
> The Arteon is not for someone who wants a car that point a to point b transportation. If you are looking for something that is more cost effective, the Jetta is the way to go. The new Jetta is a lot of car for the money.


10K market adjustment plus what ever else they claim for "dealer perks", free paint warranty, 78% nitrogen filled tires, free swirls into your paint with each wash, OMG VIN etching too, lol. Just like some dealers trying to get top dollar for an R. 

The dealer prob has no problem keeping that car on the lot for a few months to find the right stupid buyer than just make sales number. 

I wonder if someone walked in with 39K in cash if they could leave with the car that afternoon.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

Dieseldog12 said:


> [...]I wonder if someone walked in with 39K in cash if they could leave with the car that afternoon.


Or only $34,465 if someone buys it off the internet from ... that very same dealer:
https://www.kuhnvw.com/inventory/new-2019-volkswagen-arteon-2-0t-se-awd-4d-sedan-wvwbr7an9ke000702

I wonder if they slapped on that add'l $10k when they thought it would be the next New Beetle or something like that, and have kept it on there in the hopes that maybe someone might not notice that the typical market adjustment is now about half that ... and in the opposite direction!


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

meah internet prices are there to get your feet into the dealer. Dollars to donuts price that will shoot up if you show up with cash in hand due to "market adjustments" yadda yadda. I don't think VWoA takes to kindly to advertised dealer mark up of that crazy amount. 


Just like all those News paper adds for 1/2 ton trucks listed 15K off MSRP, they state a specificity stock code, if you ask for that same deal at the dealer you'll get the "sorry we just sold that one, but we have this exact same one that's almost as good at 8K off".


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

Dieseldog12 said:


> meah internet prices are there to get your feet into the dealer. Dollars to donuts price that will shoot up if you show up with cash in hand due to "market adjustments" yadda yadda. I don't think VWoA takes to kindly to advertised dealer mark up of that crazy amount.
> 
> 
> Just like all those News paper adds for 1/2 ton trucks listed 15K off MSRP, they state a specificity stock code, if you ask for that same deal at the dealer you'll get the "sorry we just sold that one, but we have this exact same one that's almost as good at 8K off".


exactly this.
if you read toward the bottom, it says there is a 1,500 military, college and partner program discount applied. which lets be honest, not everyone will be eligible for.
on top of that, it literally is a way to get people to show up at the dealer itself. but then all of the dealer applied "options"... i.e. delivery fee, dealer process fee, security etching, paint protection and so on...they add on 5k just for their "options" alone.

motivated buyers who have already looked at the website will be more inclined to accept a higher deal, because they can physically see the car they want in front of them.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

I have yet to see one on the road - only the one at the dealer a few months ago when they first came in. However, I did get notified mine has arrived at my dealership and I'll be on my way to see it later this afternoon...and hopefully back over there tomorrow to buy it...then I'll have one on the road.
From what I've been tracking so far, no one has paid over sticker for an Arteon, and in fact it seems the average price paid so far is running $3000 - 6000 under sticker, due to strong incentives from VW on the car, both internally and in financing/rebate deals.
I hope the car does remain a flagship, low-volume vehicle as I think it was intended to be. VW knows SUVS and electrics are their future, at least in the US, and cars like the W8, Phaeton, and Arteon are more like limited run specialty cars to show and advance various tech and design capabilities. I like driving a car that I don't see at every stoplight...so it's OK by me if it stays very low volume...as long as it has the warranty, things will get fixed on VW's dime for 6 years, so I don't worry too much about parts availability/repairs. When I had my W8 wagon, that was a unicorn in the US, and parts would often take weeks. If it was a repair that didn't affect drive-ability, they'd order the part and call me when it got there - if it did, they'd give me a loaner for a week.


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

techlogik said:


> I'm at the dealer now for a service bulletin on my 2019 Jetta. They have an Arteon, low level model on the floor. Looks like a CC with the new touchscreen in the middle. ROFL. How much they want for this thing? I wouldn't buy one. Of course all the marketing stuff showing the full blown Mac daddy out version it looks better...but still. Not for that price. $51k?!?!
> 
> https://ibb.co/jJNvKcB
> 
> https://ibb.co/sW9Bnsg


10k market adjustment?!? :facepalm::facepalm: That dealer is high on something for sure.
In HippieVille $5K Off MSRP is pretty common


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## SDArteon (Jun 16, 2019)

SDArteon said:


> Just for fun, Arteon sales accross USA to date.
> 
> April: 78
> May: 245
> ...


Data is from this source

http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/volkswagen/volkswagen-arteon/


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## PaddleShiftr (May 1, 2002)

Have not seen one in the greater Seattle area yet.....


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## quaudi (Jun 25, 2001)

Have not seen one in the greater Cincinnati area, just the few taking root on several dealer lots.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Boston here, I have not seen another Arteon in the wild yet. The VW CC sold 23800 units in the US the 1st year, I dont think the Arteon will meet those figures. The 4 door coupe market is much more competitive now than in 2009.


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## Audisthesia (May 13, 2012)

Dieseldog12 said:


> 10K market adjustment plus what ever else they claim for "dealer perks", free paint warranty, 78% nitrogen filled tires, free swirls into your paint with each wash, OMG VIN etching too, lol. Just like some dealers trying to get top dollar for an R.
> 
> The dealer prob has no problem keeping that car on the lot for a few months to find the right stupid buyer than just make sales number.
> 
> I wonder if someone walked in with 39K in cash if they could leave with the car that afternoon.


78% nitorgen LMFAO...so regular air.

SEL-P R line are less than that here LOLOLOL


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## techlogik (Feb 9, 2004)

Yeah, that is why I went to another dealer to buy my Jetta. Kuhn is crazy here in Tampa area. The price is around $36k or on the other picture I posted.

Still, looks like a CC on the inside. Not impressed, it is no nicer than my Jetta except a few minor things...worse cluster for sure. For that price I will pick up used A7, Panamera or BMW 645ci or...you get the point. Buying a few year old car still under warranty is a better deal in my mind. That just me though.


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

techlogik said:


> Yeah, that is why I went to another dealer to buy my Jetta. Kuhn is crazy here in Tampa area. The price is around $36k or on the other picture I posted.
> 
> Still, looks like a CC on the inside. Not impressed, it is no nicer than my Jetta except a few minor things...worse cluster for sure. For that price I will pick up used A7, Panamera or BMW 645ci or...you get the point. Buying a few year old car still under warranty is a better deal in my mind. That just me though.


to each his own :thumbup::thumbup:


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

techlogik said:


> .....For that price I will pick up used A7, Panamera or BMW 645ci or...you get the point. Buying a few year old car still under warranty is a better deal in my mind. That just me though.


A used vehicle is not a new vehicle.


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## aBrick (Sep 8, 2008)

*Yes, my Arteon*



SDArteon said:


> Just for fun, Arteon sales accross USA to date.
> 
> April: 78
> May: 245
> ...


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

Thought I saw a kurkuma yellow Arteon heading towards me while in Boston yesterday, but, just as I was getting all excited ... turned out to an A6.
(Which I've never seen before in any kind of yellow/gold/orange color?)


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> Thought I saw a kurkuma yellow Arteon heading towards me while in Boston yesterday, but, just as I was getting all excited ... turned out to an A6.
> (Which I've never seen before in any kind of yellow/gold/orange color?)


Had a 2019 A6 loaner a few months ago, the touch screen on that thing is so unresponsive compare to the Arteon. In the A6, you have to hold your finger on the screen like a second to activate it, very frustrating.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> Had a 2019 A6 loaner a few months ago, the touch screen on that thing is so unresponsive compare to the Arteon. In the A6, you have to hold your finger on the screen like a second to activate it, very frustrating.


And the touch sensitivity isn't adjustable?


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## cpogordon (Jul 12, 2019)

*Warranty*



techlogik said:


> Yeah, that is why I went to another dealer to buy my Jetta. Kuhn is crazy here in Tampa area. The price is around $36k or on the other picture I posted.
> 
> Still, looks like a CC on the inside. Not impressed, it is no nicer than my Jetta except a few minor things...worse cluster for sure. For that price I will pick up used A7, Panamera or BMW 645ci or...you get the point. Buying a few year old car still under warranty is a better deal in my mind. That just me though.


One other thing to consider is that a used Audi or BMW isn't coming with a 6 year 72000 mile warranty.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

cpogordon said:


> One other thing to consider is that a used Audi or BMW isn't coming with a 6 year 72000 mile warranty.


And is used, not new.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Also, the maintenance cost for a 3 year old A7 is going to be in the thousands.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

The G Man said:


> Also, the maintenance cost for a 3 year old A7 is going to be in the thousands.


And did any 2016 A7 have all the latest safety-related tech on the SEL-P?

Meanwhile, while trying to pay more attention to cars that might be an Arteon out in the wilds of Western Mass, I saw a low-slung Audi approaching and ... what's an R8 doing out here?!?


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

We have a ton of VW down here in S Florida - and probably more lux and supercar per mile than most places...I see all kinds of fun stuff every day - McLarens, R8s, AMG GTs, Paganis, Lambos, and Ferraris are all regular sightings here.

I expected to see another Arteon by now, but so far, none spotted on the road. What's been interesting has been fielding questions at stoplights or parking lots about my Arteon - I've had inquiries and friendly comments from a few various other-brand-owners, the most attention from some modded Passats and a CC (some even snapping phone photos of my car at stoplights)...but by far the most inquiries have been from Audi owners...several A6, and a fair number of A4, plus a Q5 and Q7 owner...some have been on the order of 'what is it' or is that a new model', and others are informed about the Arteon but didn't know it was out yet...most have been surprised at the size - seems most people judging by the photos expected it to be around A4 sized, whereas it's closer to A6 sized in person.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

The G Man said:


> Boston here, I have not seen another Arteon in the wild yet.[...]


Here's one halfway in between us:

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=520896790

... for sale now, at a used price higher than some publicly advertised new prices!


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## Lucile (May 12, 2011)

There are a handful around Florida. There's a Karkuma Yellow SEL P R-Line in Jacksonville with the black wheels and mmm it's nice. There is an Atlantic Blue SEL R-Line at my dealer now. 

Everyone has their own taste, so I'll offer my two cents on the design. I don't think it's like anything else on the road except the A7 or A5 sportback. 

There is an argument to be made against the value of a sexy car with a VW badge (see Touareg and Phaeton), but I think that if tech and style are important, then it's tough to beat for the dollar.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Lucile said:


> ....There is an argument to be made against the value of a sexy car with a VW badge (see Touareg and Phaeton)....


Only by automotive imbeciles.


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## cpogordon (Jul 12, 2019)

I'm over here in the Florida Panhandle and the local dealership got their two Arteons in about six weeks ago. They had a white SEL Premium R-Line and a Blue SE with 4 motion. I believe they only have sold the Blue SE in the last week while I was the first one here to have one ordered in but it's not due to arrive in port at Jacksonville for another 5 days. I'm waiting on my 2019 SE R-Line Manganese Gray w/20" flat black Rosario wheels which I believe is going to be a rare Arteon for 2019 based on the fact the VW website doesn't even allow you to build one. I've done a couple of nationwide searches for SE R-Line front wheel drive cars and have found very few available.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

cpogordon said:


> I'm over here in the Florida Panhandle and the local dealership got their two Arteons in about six weeks ago. They had a white SEL Premium R-Line and a Blue SE with 4 motion. I believe they only have sold the Blue SE in the last week while I was the first one here to have one ordered in but it's not due to arrive in port at Jacksonville for another 5 days. I'm waiting on my 2019 SE R-Line Manganese Gray w/20" flat black Rosario wheels which I believe is going to be a rare Arteon for 2019 based on the fact the VW website doesn't even allow you to build one. I've done a couple of nationwide searches for SE R-Line front wheel drive cars and have found very few available.


The manganese gray will go well with the black rims, here in Boston, those tires and rims will not last thru the pothole season.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> ....here in Boston, those tires and rims will not last thru the pothole season.


That would depend on the driver.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

as far as i have been told (VW dealership/GM) i am the only Arteon in the state of Kansas.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> as far as i have been told (VW dealership/GM) i am the only Arteon in the state of Kansas.


They say that to every arteon buyer in each state


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## chrisMk6TDi (Dec 10, 2011)

Colonial VW in Westborough MA had three- an SE (mine) and two SEL-P R Line, one pyrite silver and one black. All three sold fairly soon after they came in and they haven’t gotten another allocation since. However, I’ve yet to see either of those other two on the roads yet! Or any Arteon for that matter! I do get many a confused look from A5 sport backs on the road though...


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## CentralNJ (Apr 26, 2019)

I'm driving mine in NJ (exactly like the pic above - Atlantic Blue w two tone interior) and have not seen another one, but I know my dealer sold at least one other SEL Premium R Line. Family reported seeing one in Bucks County PA.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

chrisMk6TDi said:


> Colonial VW in Westborough MA had three- an SE (mine) and two SEL-P R Line, one pyrite silver and one black. All three sold fairly soon after they came in and they haven’t gotten another allocation since.[...]


So all five of these are actually sold? --
https://www.buycolonialvw.com/cars-for-sale-westborough-ma?q=arteon

They were very inconsistent with their non-R SEL-P.
I had asked about the prospects for its arrival, and like many dealers at the time, they didn't quite know.
Even though such a vehicle arrived only a few days after my inquiry!
I had to tell the internet sales staff about it -- apparently whoever updates the website inventory doesn't deal with potential buyers?

Upon a casual price inquiry, I was offered a $6k discount -- this was back in late May.
I was hesitant b/c of the interior color.
They sent me some pics, and I told them that my wife might stop by the following day to pass judgement.
That ended up not happening, and I never heard from Colonial again...


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

chrisMk6TDi said:


> Colonial VW in Westborough MA had three- an SE (mine) and two SEL-P R Line, one pyrite silver and one black. All three sold fairly soon after they came in and they haven’t gotten another allocation since. However, I’ve yet to see either of those other two on the roads yet! Or any Arteon for that matter! I do get many a confused look from A5 sport backs on the road though...


I almost bought the black SEL-P you guys had but my dealer found the gray one I wanted first.


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## cpogordon (Jul 12, 2019)

*Tire & Wheel Insurance*



The G Man said:


> The manganese gray will go well with the black rims, here in Boston, those tires and rims will not last thru the pothole season.


Stopped by the Dealership yesterday and found out my Arteon was in port ahead of schedule and should be here in about a week so I went and signed all the paperwork while I was there. I've had bad luck with tires here so I went ahead and did something I don't usually do and got the Tire & Wheel insurance since I have the 20s and Rosario wheels. Paid $450 for 5 year zero deductible coverage and have no ideal if that was a good price or a rip off since I don't normally do any of the add ons in the Finance Office, but I do know I'll pay that much a more if I damage one these rims. Also found out I was the first local person to purchase an Arteon here. I thought they had sold the one Blue SE 4 motion but they haven't and they still have their two original allotment of Arteons, but they did order another Arteon from a dealership for a couple who came in from Alabama so I ended up being their second Arteon sale but so far the only one going to be driving one here if the other two on their lot don't sell.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

cpogordon said:


> Stopped by the Dealership yesterday and found out my Arteon was in port ahead of schedule and should be here in about a week so I went and signed all the paperwork while I was there. I've had bad luck with tires here so I went ahead and did something I don't usually do and got the Tire & Wheel insurance since I have the 20s and Rosario wheels. Paid $450 for 5 year zero deductible coverage and have no ideal if that was a good price or a rip off since I don't normally do any of the add ons in the Finance Office, but I do know I'll pay that much a more if I damage one these rims. Also found out I was the first local person to purchase an Arteon here. I thought they had sold the one Blue SE 4 motion but they haven't and they still have their two original allotment of Arteons, but they did order another Arteon from a dealership for a couple who came in from Alabama so I ended up being their second Arteon sale but so far the only one going to be driving one here if the other two on their lot don't sell.


with 20's it prob will just take one curb rash or pot hole to get your money back.

The issue is how much will you have to fight the dealer/warranty company to reimburse you in a timely manor.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Dieseldog12 said:


> with 20's it prob will just take one curb rash or pot hole to get your money back.
> 
> The issue is how much will you have to fight the dealer/warranty company to reimburse you in a timely manor.


If customers made out on this, why would companies sell it?


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

cpogordon said:


> Stopped by the Dealership yesterday and found out my Arteon was in port ahead of schedule and should be here in about a week so I went and signed all the paperwork while I was there. I've had bad luck with tires here so I went ahead and did something I don't usually do and got the Tire & Wheel insurance since I have the 20s and Rosario wheels. Paid $450 for 5 year zero deductible coverage and have no ideal if that was a good price or a rip off since I don't normally do any of the add ons in the Finance Office, but I do know I'll pay that much a more if I damage one these rims. Also found out I was the first local person to purchase an Arteon here. I thought they had sold the one Blue SE 4 motion but they haven't and they still have their two original allotment of Arteons, but they did order another Arteon from a dealership for a couple who came in from Alabama so I ended up being their second Arteon sale but so far the only one going to be driving one here if the other two on their lot don't sell.


BMW wheel insurance cost about $1800 for the same 5 year term, I also decline the VW W&T insurance for $1200, I have 19". I read online that one owner had so many claims that his claim was declined. Like somebody have already mentioned, if it is too good to be true....................


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## cpogordon (Jul 12, 2019)

*Tire & Wheel*



The G Man said:


> BMW wheel insurance cost about $1800 for the same 5 year term, I also decline the VW W&T insurance for $1200, I have 19". I read online that one owner had so many claims that his claim was declined. Like somebody have already mentioned, if it is too good to be true....................


I didn't mention it but I also had something the Finance Manager was looking for so maybe I did get a good deal after all.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Being the only Arteon I have seen on the road here, I really do not get any attention directed at my car. When I first saw the Arteon online, I thought for sure this car would draw a lot of attention because of the beautiful lines of the body but that hasn't been the case so far.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

cpogordon said:


> I didn't mention it but I also had something the Finance Manager was looking for so maybe I did get a good deal after all.


its only a good deal if it's a hassle free claim process. I don't think VWoA offers any sort of "wheel warranty" (just like extended power train warranties, which are all thrid party) so it's another money making scheme for the dealership. 

again best of luck


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

The G Man said:


> Being the only Arteon I have seen on the road here, I really do not get any attention directed at my car. When I first saw the Arteon online, I thought for sure this car would draw a lot of attention because of the beautiful lines of the body but that hasn't been the case so far.


i get quite a bit of attention when i park my car. a lot of looks and walk arounds for sure. 
i just checked my local dealer and they still have their SE/4Motion on the lot, now listed at 32k. i do not expect that to sell anytime soon, here in KS almost everyone is driving a large SUV or crossover, myself included as my wife has an Atlas.

but i can say that i have not seen any others driving around my town...


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> i get quite a bit of attention when i park my car. a lot of looks and walk arounds for sure.
> i just checked my local dealer and they still have their SE/4Motion on the lot, now listed at 32k. i do not expect that to sell anytime soon, here in KS almost everyone is driving a large SUV or crossover, myself included as my wife has an Atlas.
> 
> but i can say that i have not seen any others driving around my town...


I think Americans have given up on driving dynamics in favor of ride height and truck like suspension of the suv. Riding up high has no advantage if everyone on the road has a suv, also, from a physics point of view, there are so many disadvantages to a higher center of gravity and long suspension travel as far as handling.


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## cpogordon (Jul 12, 2019)

Dieseldog12 said:


> its only a good deal if it's a hassle free claim process. I don't think VWoA offers any sort of "wheel warranty" (just like extended power train warranties, which are all thrid party) so it's another money making scheme for the dealership.
> 
> again best of luck


Your correct, it isn't a VW Plan but rather a Third Party Policy sold through the Dealership.


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## RocknRolla (Jul 19, 2006)

The G Man said:


> I think Americans have given up on driving dynamics in favor of ride height and truck like suspension of the suv. Riding up high has no advantage if everyone on the road has a suv, also, from a physics point of view, there are so many disadvantages to a higher center of gravity and long suspension travel as far as handling.


I don't think many drivers actually cared about driving dynamics - only the enthusiasts ever did. The majority want space and comfort, and maybe some tech. Everything else is a just a plus.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

RocknRolla said:


> I don't think many drivers actually cared about driving dynamics - only the enthusiasts ever did. The majority want space and comfort, and maybe some tech. Everything else is a just a plus.


Toyota doesn't move more camrys/carolas than all VW makes for a reason. The current american buying public is just stupid and the worse thing to happen to the auto industry.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

We test drove the new top of the line Camry a few months ago and was very impressed with how well it handle.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

RocknRolla said:


> I don't think many drivers actually cared about driving dynamics - only the enthusiasts ever did. The majority want space and comfort, and maybe some tech. Everything else is a just a plus.


Speaking of space, here's the rear seat center pass-through (with both outboard rear passenger seats still up) accommodating an amazing number of skis:
https://www.facebook.com/137097509664838/posts/3135624053145487


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## Coly8s (Jul 25, 2019)

Only 252 sold in July. To date, I've yet to see another one in San Antonio. It's a great car for getting some interesting stares. I like driving a unicorn.


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## SDArteon (Jun 16, 2019)

*2019 model year - they will be a rare breed- USA sales!*

_​_
VolkswagenJanuaryFebruaryMarchApril78May245June275July252August329September304October366November317December

 


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

Thanks for posting this SD :thumbup:


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

I always joke that they should subtract one from June for the buy back on our original one


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> I always joke that they should subtract one from June for the buy back on our original one


And you think this vehicle is not been sold to a customer?


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> And did any 2016 A7 have all the latest safety-related tech on the SEL-P?
> 
> Meanwhile, while trying to pay more attention to cars that might be an Arteon out in the wilds of Western Mass, I saw a low-slung Audi approaching and ... what's an R8 doing out here?!?


The 2016 A7 pretty much has all the safety tech the Arteon has, at double the price, it should. 

We see a quite a few R8 around here in the metro area but I have only seem a S8 once.


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

The G Man said:


> The 2016 A7 pretty much has all the safety tech the Arteon has, at double the price, it should.


To my recollection 2016 A7 did not have 360 view camera system. I think it had corner view system instead.
Oddly, 2016 A6 had 360 view as part of the driver assist pack.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

beaumisbro said:


> To my recollection 2016 A7 did not have 360 view camera system. I think it had corner view system instead.
> Oddly, 2016 A6 had 360 view as part of the driver assist pack.


Yeah at the time Audi explained it as the way the mirrors were mounted on the A7 did not allow for the side cameras. Strange indeed.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

beaumisbro said:


> To my recollection 2016 A7 did not have 360 view camera system. I think it had corner view system instead.
> Oddly, 2016 A6 had 360 view as part of the driver assist pack.


You are absolutely correct, the A7 does have corner view but from my short test drive, i seem to remember that there is also a top view mode that can be had with the optional driver assist package.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm actually surprised at how steady those numbers are, I wonder if it's the incentives that's keeping the numbers up. 

Dealer inventory seems to be about 1-2 units which I'm sure is what VWoA was expecting/wanting. 

I wonder how the next 6 months will look with the 2019 disappearing and only 2020's to be had.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Those sales numbers are pretty dismal. I guess people are leaning toward luxury brand when they buy niche cars such as a fastback. As SUV and pickup truck continues to dominate the market, with EV on the horizon, the days of the gas engine sedans are numbered. To tell the truth, with more and more cars on the road and the so called lean reduction diet going on in major cities in favor of the bicycle, the driving dynamics of the sedan matters less and less.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> Those sales numbers are pretty dismal. I guess people are leaning toward luxury brand when they buy niche cars such as a fastback. As SUV and pickup truck continues to dominate the market, with EV on the horizon, the days of the gas engine sedans are numbered. To tell the truth, with more and more cars on the road and the so called lean reduction diet going on in major cities in favor of the bicycle, the driving dynamics of the sedan matters less and less.


There is still a lot of interstate and beautiful secondary roadways to enjoy a properly designed vehicle.


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## Lucile (May 12, 2011)

Fun fact: VW of America sold one more Golf last month than Arteons (excluding GTI, R, and e-Golf).

Sent from my Blackberry (yes that's still a thing)using Tapatalk


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## Xlu (Dec 10, 2019)

Just got an SE for 32. Dealer had two 2019 and asking 34. Both had less than 10 miles.

Wonder how much the oct-dec numbers are driven by discounting. Thats how I ended up with an Arteon rather than an accord sport or stinger.

Driving dynamics are great, but IMO they need to step up the stock Passat interior.

I do love how many people have to look around behind to figure out what this beautiful machine is.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Xlu said:


> .....but IMO they need to step up the stock Passat interior.......


So, you are not a fan of tasteful?


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

So much for VW's plan to become the number sales leader in the US. VW total sales year to date is 335,445 units. That is far behind the sales leader Toyota with sales numbers YTD of 3,695,958.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

The G Man said:


> So much for VW's plan to become the number sales leader in the US. VW total sales year to date is 335,445 units. That is far behind the sales leader Toyota with sales numbers YTD of 3,695,958.


Yeah and VW can spin it any way they want by saying sales are up yoy, but in all reality sales have been down monthly. They just slammed people with left over 2018 tiguans and atlases early in 2019 with deals, and make it like that is representative of 2019 sales. The car selling climate has changed around the world, and the sales slump is kicking in hard.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Xlu said:


> Just got an SE for 32. Dealer had two 2019 and asking 34. Both had less than 10 miles.
> 
> Wonder how much the oct-dec numbers are driven by discounting. Thats how I ended up with an Arteon rather than an accord sport or stinger.
> 
> ...


They have been incentivizing this thing literally since day 1 given the delay due to WLTP. 

And as for the interior, the SE is pretty spartan, but the SEL and above are much nicer imo.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> Yeah and VW can spin it any way they want by saying sales are up yoy, but in all reality sales have been down monthly. They just slammed people with left over 2018 tiguans and atlases early in 2019 with deals, and make it like that is representative of 2019 sales. The car selling climate has changed around the world, and the sales slump is kicking in hard.


If the vehicle is new and sold in 2019, it is a 2019 sale, no matter what the year of the vehicle. Any reason you think VW should different rules than every other make?


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

The G Man said:


> So much for VW's plan to become the number sales leader in the US. VW total sales year to date is 335,445 units. That is far behind the sales leader Toyota with sales numbers YTD of 3,695,958.


lol 2012/13 called they want to congratulate you for remembering the past, that and they were only saying they wanted to move 800,000 units, they knew they'd never be able to touch toyota in the US. Either way they'll blame dieselgate and low gas prices. 

https://www.businessfleet.com/158993/how-will-vw-sell-800-000-units-in-america

VW will say the US market is important to them and their "global vision" but in reality the US market is a pimple on VW's back end. The US market has gone sooo soo low end VW would need to bring over stripped SEAT or Skoda level items in order to move decent numbers. 

On the other hand I do think Audi/Porsche plays a bigger role in VWAG in profit margins and how they view the American market.

There's a reason why the T-Reg isn't offered any more, people just don't associate VW with a premium brand that once offered W8 .


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Dieseldog12 said:


> lol 2012/13 called they want to congratulate you for remembering the past, that and they were only saying they wanted to move 800,000 units, they knew they'd never be able to touch toyota in the US. Either way they'll blame dieselgate and low gas prices.
> 
> https://www.businessfleet.com/158993/how-will-vw-sell-800-000-units-in-america
> 
> ...


VW was going to achieve that sales goal thru reliability and quality, couple of areas that Toyota is paramount. If I remember right, back than the delta between Toyota and VW was much narrower, Honda was still 2nd and VW 3rd. It seems now the delta has gotten much larger and VW's goal is no longer attainable. There are still plenty of people buying high end cars in the US but like you said, they are not looking at VW for high end cars. In my opinion, I think the VW Arteon is a better value than its counterparts from Audi, BMW and Mercedes. If the 6 year warranty doesn't convince buyers to take a chance on VW's reliability, I am not sure what will. VW might need to settle for selling $20,XXX cars.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Dieseldog12 said:


> lol 2012/13 called they want to congratulate you for remembering the past, that and they were only saying they wanted to move 800,000 units, they knew they'd never be able to touch toyota in the US. Either way they'll blame dieselgate and low gas prices.
> 
> https://www.businessfleet.com/158993/how-will-vw-sell-800-000-units-in-america
> 
> ...


Interesting fact: VW are much more evident in high income, high education areas. VW are not intended to appeal to Joe Blue Collar.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> VW was going to achieve that sales goal thru reliability and quality, couple of areas that Toyota is paramount. If I remember right, back than the delta between Toyota and VW was much narrower, Honda was still 2nd and VW 3rd. It seems now the delta has gotten much larger and VW's goal is no longer attainable. There are still plenty of people buying high end cars in the US but like you said, they are not looking at VW for high end cars. In my opinion, I think the VW Arteon is a better value than its counterparts from Audi, BMW and Mercedes. If the 6 year warranty doesn't convince buyers to take a chance on VW's reliability, I am not sure what will. VW might need to settle for selling $20,XXX cars.


VWAG is the largest seller of vehicle for the last three years running. More than Toyota, more than GM, more than Nissan.


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## Xlu (Dec 10, 2019)

ice4life said:


> They have been incentivizing this thing literally since day 1 given the delay due to WLTP.
> 
> And as for the interior, the SE is pretty spartan, but the SEL and above are much nicer imo.


The interior is fine... I like the minimalist austere, but it’s little things, like having a gapless blend between the aircon vents And the decorative grille, or having soft touch materials on the whole door, that would go a long way to make it feel more premium. And worth the 36-39k se msrp.

Being able to get the SEL-P interior in a Passat for less than the SE is the other problem.

Arteon is really a special car - the interior detracts from that specialness.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

The G Man said:


> In my opinion, I think the VW Arteon is a better value than its counterparts from Audi, BMW and Mercedes.


I think the basic model is a great value. But once you step up to SEL Premium or even just SEL R-line, it's not as clear cut. For "a little more", you can get into a base Audi S5. And this may sound strange to some, but those are two options I am considering for my next car, except if I get the S5, I will pay more than "a little more" to get the Dynamic Suspension.

Perhaps the problem for VW is that pure luxury buyers won't pay for the higher end trims, because they are still just getting a VW. Performance focused folks might feel the same way upon closer scrutiny of the underpinnings of the car: Quattro vs 4-motion and Aisin vs ZF, for example. I think the high-end Arteon buyer would be someone who wants a competent, practical, and sporty hatchback with _all_ the goodies that are offered as expensive options on the higher end competition. When the balance between these things shifts a little, buyers will be more likely to look at other options. It's too bad.



> If the 6 year warranty doesn't convince buyers to take a chance on VW's reliability, I am not sure what will..


Isn't that warranty going away next year?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

av_audi said:


> I think the basic model is a great value. But once you step up to SEL Premium or even just SEL R-line, it's not as clear cut. For "a little more", you can get into a base Audi S5. And this may sound strange to some, but those are two options I am considering for my next car, except if I get the S5, I will pay more than "a little more" to get the Dynamic Suspension.
> 
> Perhaps the problem for VW is that pure luxury buyers won't pay for the higher end trims, because they are still just getting a VW. Performance focused folks might feel the same way upon closer scrutiny of the underpinnings of the car: Quattro vs 4-motion and Aisin vs ZF, for example. I think the high-end Arteon buyer would be someone who wants a competent, practical, and sporty hatchback with _all_ the goodies that are offered as expensive options on the higher end competition. When the balance between these things shifts a little, buyers will be more likely to look at other options. It's too bad.
> 
> ...


Lol watt? A comparable S5 sportback will run you 10k more than a loaded Arteon at MSRP. Granted it has a bigger engine, but with incentives on the Arteon, that gap grows even larger to about 15k. That's not a little more, that variance is the price of a compact car. And yes the warranty is down to 4yr/50k for 2020.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

av_audi said:


> I think the basic model is a great value. But once you step up to SEL Premium or even just SEL R-line, it's not as clear cut. For "a little more", you can get into a base Audi S5.


I paid a little under $40k for my SEL-P.
For the S5 to have the features I really like in the SEL-P, I would need the Premium Plus w/ both the warm & cold wx packages, which stickers at $57,595.
I have no idea what the actual price paid would be for that MSRP, but must be at least around a $15k differential as another poster noted.
And in return I'd get a backseat that would not be tolerable for my family with vastly reduced cargo space too.
I can certainly understand how some purchasers would still prefer the S5, but that comparison in no way diminishes the value of the Arteon, given the wide price differential, and that it's in an entirely different size category.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

av_audi said:


> I think the basic model is a great value. But once you step up to SEL Premium or even just SEL R-line, it's not as clear cut. For "a little more", you can get into a base Audi S5. And this may sound strange to some, but those are two options I am considering for my next car, except if I get the S5, I will pay more than "a little more" to get the Dynamic Suspension.
> 
> Perhaps the problem for VW is that pure luxury buyers won't pay for the higher end trims, because they are still just getting a VW. Performance focused folks might feel the same way upon closer scrutiny of the underpinnings of the car: Quattro vs 4-motion and Aisin vs ZF, for example. I think the high-end Arteon buyer would be someone who wants a competent, practical, and sporty hatchback with _all_ the goodies that are offered as expensive options on the higher end competition. When the balance between these things shifts a little, buyers will be more likely to look at other options. It's too bad.
> 
> ...


I think the opposite is true in my opinion. The SE model is about $6000 cheaper than my SEL P+ but it lacks options. considering all the options you get on a SEL P+ over the SE for only $6000, the SEL P+ is a bargain. 
I traded in my 2018 Audi S5 for my Arteon, had to cut payment, long story. Anyhow, I paid $61000 for my S5 and $41000 for my Arteon. The S5 had all the options that the Arteon has except for cooled seats, 3 zone climate control, 360 camera, adaptive cruise, speed limit on Navi and lane assist. The S5's engine is no doubt faster but the lag on the S5's powertrain is horrible. The ZF tranny combo with the miller cycle engine created a lot of lags in normal mode. In sport mode, most of the lag were gone but the S5 become too jerky for everyday driving. Dollar for dollar, no doubt the Arteon is a better buy considering its $20K cheaper.


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## Xlu (Dec 10, 2019)

Dynamic suspension is standard on all NAR Arteons. Plus it’s an upgrade over the Golf R DCC, so basically its the most sophisticated one VW offers.


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## jquest1971 (Dec 27, 2019)

*Add one more to December's count*

Picked up my SE 4motion for $33,300. Almost $6000 less than MSRP but I couldn't combine that with the 0% for 72 months offer. Fantastic car, really enjoying it so far.

--JQ


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## Hellgate (Dec 29, 2016)

jquest1971 said:


> Picked up my SE 4motion for $33,300. Almost $6000 less than MSRP but I couldn't combine that with the 0% for 72 months offer. Fantastic car, really enjoying it so far.
> 
> --JQ


Nice. That is an outstanding price. What color did you buy? 

I'm waiting for SEL 4Ms to drop a bit more. I'd like one in yellow.


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## attofarad (Apr 17, 2014)

Hellgate said:


> Nice. That is an outstanding price. What color did you buy?
> 
> I'm waiting for SEL 4Ms to drop a bit more. I'd like one in yellow.


Not sure how much they will drop (already $5k - $6k off MSRP), unless you are talking about used. There seem to be very few AWD, yellow, SEL or better Arteons for sale -- something like 3 or 4 in the US, one of which has ~7300 miles on it, and maybe only one of those is SEL without Premium or R-line. Someone here posted that the yellow will not be a 2020 color, and I am assuming that all of the 2019's Arteons have already arrived.


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## jquest1971 (Dec 27, 2019)

Hellgate said:


> Nice. That is an outstanding price. What color did you buy?
> 
> I'm waiting for SEL 4Ms to drop a bit more. I'd like one in yellow.


Mine is Chili Red. Hope you find your SEL for a good price. Probably the only thing I really feel like I'm missing with the SE trim is a sunroof and remote start, and I didn't want to step up to the SEL 4motion price point just for those two features. You get a lot more stuff for that money I know, but the two I mentioned would be the most important to me.

I haven't had a car this nice in quite a while...probably since my 2012 Volvo S60. I traded a 2018 Tacoma TRD Off Road for my Arteon and going from a truck to this is just fantastic. Tacomas are good trucks, it just took me a while to realize that 85 percent of the time I was using my truck to do car things. I will not miss getting 18 mpg on average that's for sure.

--JQ


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> I paid a little under $40k for my SEL-P.
> For the S5 to have the features I really like in the SEL-P, I would need the Premium Plus w/ both the warm & cold wx packages, which stickers at $57,595.
> I have no idea what the actual price paid would be for that MSRP, but must be at least around a $15k differential as another poster noted.
> And in return I'd get a backseat that would not be tolerable for my family with vastly reduced cargo space too.
> I can certainly understand how some purchasers would still prefer the S5, but that comparison in no way diminishes the value of the Arteon, given the wide price differential, and that it's in an entirely different size category.


The Sportback S5 is also currently selling with significant discounts, but you are right, we are looking at least at a $10-15K difference regardless. But I feel like you are getting such a different car with the S5 that it may well be worth the price difference. Significantly more powerful engine with better fuel economy. A higher end transmission (no one here will convince me the Aisin is a better transmission than the ZF). More premium interior. Nicer looking exterior (purely subjective and I still like the Arteon styling). Superior AWD system. Driving dynamics that cannot be matched by the Arteon.

None of this diminishes the value of the Arteon. It just that whenever I looked at higher end Audis before, I felt that while I would be getting more things, they were clearly lesser values. For some reason, this time around I feel like I would be getting enough things that might warrant the price difference. It's always a lesser value proposition, but it doesn't feel as worse as it used to. Maybe I am weighting things differently nowadays. Maybe after driving VWs for about 17 years, I just need something different. I don't know. Maybe I still can't get over the lousy EPA highway mileage estimate for the AWD. Yes, real wold is better, but that's the case with most cars. EPA testing is consistent so it is a good way for car-to-car comparison. When the highway EPA estimate for the RS5 is only 1mpg less than for the Arteon, I cannot help wonder whether they spent too much time on the styling and rushed some of the innards of the car. Maybe I am looking for an excuse to buy an Sportsback S5


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

av_audi said:


> Maybe I am looking for an excuse to buy an Sportsback S5


You think?


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

av_audi said:


> But I feel like you are getting such a different car with the S5 that it may well be worth the price difference.


For sure, if those are the different characteristics you value.
For me, it was the other way around. But I totally see how someone would prefer an A5 or S5 over the Arteon.
As for mileage, this LINK should take you to my ongoing tally.
I was getting pretty close to 30mpg until I switched to winter tires/wheels. Plus probably using the Sport setting far more often now that I'm getting more miles on twisty secondary highways. I also think the Auto climate control setting is a bit too eager to turn on the AC for humidity control. And the heating option for the seat and steering wheel probably isn't helping much either. Plus the seat massage function on the drive to ski areas, ahhh....


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

av_audi said:


> The Sportback S5 is also currently selling with significant discounts, but you are right, we are looking at least at a $10-15K difference regardless. But I feel like you are getting such a different car with the S5 that it may well be worth the price difference. Significantly more powerful engine with better fuel economy. A higher end transmission (no one here will convince me the Aisin is a better transmission than the ZF). More premium interior. Nicer looking exterior (purely subjective and I still like the Arteon styling). Superior AWD system. Driving dynamics that cannot be matched by the Arteon.
> 
> None of this diminishes the value of the Arteon. It just that whenever I looked at higher end Audis before, I felt that while I would be getting more things, they were clearly lesser values. For some reason, this time around I feel like I would be getting enough things that might warrant the price difference. It's always a lesser value proposition, but it doesn't feel as worse as it used to. Maybe I am weighting things differently nowadays. Maybe after driving VWs for about 17 years, I just need something different. I don't know. Maybe I still can't get over the lousy EPA highway mileage estimate for the AWD. Yes, real wold is better, but that's the case with most cars. EPA testing is consistent so it is a good way for car-to-car comparison. When the highway EPA estimate for the RS5 is only 1mpg less than for the Arteon, I cannot help wonder whether they spent too much time on the styling and rushed some of the innards of the car. Maybe I am looking for an excuse to buy an Sportsback S5


The S5 is selling at about $8000 discount in my area. you can usually justify anything in your mind if it is bias and it sounds like you really want a S5. For me, the S5 was a great car, needless to say, much quicker than the Arteon. Forget the MPG difference on paper, the Arteon still gets better overall gas mileage. My old S5 also had adaptive suspension, with both cars in normal setting, the S5 handles a bit better but it is also has a rougher ride. The S5's interior is pretty amazing, I got the S Sport seat and the carbon fiber inlays, it is simply breath taking in that configuration. The Aisin tranny is not better than the ZF but it is paired to the engine better than the S5, the programming of the S5's ZF also exhibits a lot of lag which is a big problem for a sports car. The S5's auto start stop also has issues, it starts up and stop much too frequently. The S5's AWD is superior on the tracks but since it is rear wheel bias, it is no better in the snow than the Arteon. Driving dynamic wise, although the Arteon cannot keep up with the S5 on the tracks, in real life driving, I prefer the Arteon's ride comfort better. The handling between the two cars are not as different as you think. If you can comfortably afford a S5, by all means, go for it, you only live once but the Arteon is no doubt a better value than the S5.


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## slickvdub (Sep 29, 2015)

SDArteon said:


> Just for fun, Arteon sales accross USA to date.
> 
> April: 78
> May: 245
> ...


I got mine jul went for service yesterday there was another arteon getting service I'm in Ontario haven't seen another on the road


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

The G Man said:


> The S5 is selling at about $8000 discount in my area. you can usually justify anything in your mind if it is bias and it sounds like you really want a S5. For me, the S5 was a great car, needless to say, much quicker than the Arteon. Forget the MPG difference on paper, the Arteon still gets better overall gas mileage. My old S5 also had adaptive suspension, with both cars in normal setting, the S5 handles a bit better but it is also has a rougher ride. The S5's interior is pretty amazing, I got the S Sport seat and the carbon fiber inlays, it is simply breath taking in that configuration. The Aisin tranny is not better than the ZF but it is paired to the engine better than the S5, the programming of the S5's ZF also exhibits a lot of lag which is a big problem for a sports car. The S5's auto start stop also has issues, it starts up and stop much too frequently. The S5's AWD is superior on the tracks but since it is rear wheel bias, it is no better in the snow than the Arteon. Driving dynamic wise, although the Arteon cannot keep up with the S5 on the tracks, in real life driving, I prefer the Arteon's ride comfort better. The handling between the two cars are not as different as you think. If you can comfortably afford a S5, by all means, go for it, you only live once but the Arteon is no doubt a better value than the S5.


Thank you so much for all that information. Do you know whether they improved the transmission programming on the latest S5 model? Do you feel like the Arteon adaptive suspension provides enough difference between the different settings? Can it really be relaxed on horrible pot-holed roads but nice and firm in Sports mode?

Yes, I can comfortably afford an S5, but unfortunately for me, that doesn't mean I don't feel uncomfortable if I am not feeling like I am getting a good value in whatever I purchase. My CC is now exhibiting the typical problems of TFSI engines: crapped out manifold, possibly leaking injectors, and supposedly failing oxygen sensor. I just don't have the patience for these things anymore and maybe if I can get a discounted Arteon, I might just dump the CC. Sadly, it also looks like there are generally very few manual transmission options left in the market, so I am tempted to hang on to the CC a little longer than I should.


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

av_audi said:


> Thank you so much for all that information. Do you know whether they improved the transmission programming on the latest S5 model? Do you feel like the Arteon adaptive suspension provides enough difference between the different settings? Can it really be relaxed on horrible pot-holed roads but nice and firm in Sports mode?
> 
> Yes, I can comfortably afford an S5, but unfortunately for me, that doesn't mean I don't feel uncomfortable if I am not feeling like I am getting a good value in whatever I purchase. My CC is now exhibiting the typical problems of TFSI engines: crapped out manifold, possibly leaking injectors, and supposedly failing oxygen sensor. I just don't have the patience for these things anymore and maybe if I can get a discounted Arteon, I might just dump the CC. Sadly, it also looks like there are generally very few manual transmission options left in the market, so I am tempted to hang on to the CC a little longer than I should.


maybe you can consider buying an arteon from one of us, in a year or so.


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## IFlyGTI (Feb 26, 2001)

av_audi said:


> Thank you so much for all that information. Do you know whether they improved the transmission programming on the latest S5 model? Do you feel like the Arteon adaptive suspension provides enough difference between the different settings? Can it really be relaxed on horrible pot-holed roads but nice and firm in Sports mode?
> 
> Yes, I can comfortably afford an S5, but unfortunately for me, that doesn't mean I don't feel uncomfortable if I am not feeling like I am getting a good value in whatever I purchase. My CC is now exhibiting the typical problems of TFSI engines: crapped out manifold, possibly leaking injectors, and supposedly failing oxygen sensor. I just don't have the patience for these things anymore and maybe if I can get a discounted Arteon, I might just dump the CC. Sadly, it also looks like there are generally very few manual transmission options left in the market, so I am tempted to hang on to the CC a little longer than I should.





beaumisbro said:


> maybe you can consider buying an Arteon _*for*_ one of us, in a year or so.


Fixed that for you (me?)...


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

IFlyGTI said:


> Fixed that for you (me?)...


:laugh::laugh::thumbup:


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

av_audi said:


> Thank you so much for all that information. Do you know whether they improved the transmission programming on the latest S5 model? Do you feel like the Arteon adaptive suspension provides enough difference between the different settings? Can it really be relaxed on horrible pot-holed roads but nice and firm in Sports mode?
> 
> Yes, I can comfortably afford an S5, but unfortunately for me, that doesn't mean I don't feel uncomfortable if I am not feeling like I am getting a good value in whatever I purchase. My CC is now exhibiting the typical problems of TFSI engines: crapped out manifold, possibly leaking injectors, and supposedly failing oxygen sensor. I just don't have the patience for these things anymore and maybe if I can get a discounted Arteon, I might just dump the CC. Sadly, it also looks like there are generally very few manual transmission options left in the market, so I am tempted to hang on to the CC a little longer than I should.


I am not sure if the 2020 S5 still have the lag or not, mine was a 2018. You should go for a test drive and floor it from a red light and let go of the gas, cruise for a 30 seconds and floor it again, thats how the S5’s lag manifest itself. Its not the laggist car I have driven but quite a few owners had the same issue. Otherwise, the car is sweet, the exhaust note os loud and intoxicating. The arteon’s normal suspension mode is about the same as the s5’s comfort mode. In sport mode, both feel about the same stiffness but the arteon is just bumpy on sport mode, it doesnt really improve the handling that much. The S5 in sport handles better than the arteon but not by as much as one might think. The arteon is more suited as a cruiser and not a car that will eat up the turns. No more manuals for me, the wife kids doesnt know how to shift, its a lost art.


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## buffym (Jul 11, 2019)

December 2019 sales figures are out. Updated SDArteon's table:


VolkswagenJanuaryFebruaryMarchApril78May245June275July252August329September304October366November317December283*Total**2,449*

Source: https://media.vw.com/releases/1243


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## Hellgate (Dec 29, 2016)

Great link. Thanks!


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

beaumisbro said:


> maybe you can consider buying an arteon from one of us, in a year or so.


Should I be worried that you are considering getting rid of it this soon?


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

The G Man said:


> No more manuals for me, the wife kids doesnt know how to shift, its a lost art.


It's a perfect way to make sure no one else drives your car


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

buffym said:


> Source: https://media.vw.com/releases/1243


Passat sales down from 714 to 3,116 (-77%) for December and down from 14,123 to 41,401 (-66%) for the year?

I know it's getting a refresh, but those are dramatic drops. I haven't kept up with the Passat, but it looks like they were offering only higher end trims in 2019? When will VWoA learn?


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

av_audi said:


> Should I be worried that you are considering getting rid of it this soon?


Not at all imo. Looking at the crowd buying these, the cars are pretty well taken care of. Buying them within the community would be a great value proposition, which is what you mentioned.
Heck, I might be tempted to get one from one of the members if they decide to sell in a few years. I'm dailying the B6 Wagon and wouldn't mind upgrading.


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## attofarad (Apr 17, 2014)

av_audi said:


> Passat sales down from 714 to 3,116 (-77%) for December and down from 14,123 to 41,401 (-66%) for the year?
> 
> I know it's getting a refresh, but those are dramatic drops. I haven't kept up with the Passat, but it looks like they were offering only higher end trims in 2019? When will VWoA learn?


Around the SF Bay Area, when I looked online a month or two back, the local dealers has essentially zero Passats in inventory. No idea whether that is in keeping with low demand, or maybe the 2019's are just all gone, and the 2020's have not arrived.


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## bgc996 (Aug 27, 2004)

av_audi said:


> Passat sales down from 714 to 3,116 (-77%) for December and down from 14,123 to 41,401 (-66%) for the year?
> 
> I know it's getting a refresh, but those are dramatic drops. I haven't kept up with the Passat, but it looks like they were offering only higher end trims in 2019? When will VWoA learn?


I think the drop in sales correlates to change of body style. 2019 was the last year for the first gen US built Passat and in order to start producing the new 2020 model, the production of the 2019 was limited. This usually explains the cars having a higher trim level as they are just trying to get rid of what they have. Also why they sometimes have ‘Limited’ editions. Similar situation to all outgoing models (ie PQ Tiguan, Touareg, Beetle).


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

av_audi said:


> [...]Do you feel like the Arteon adaptive suspension provides enough difference between the different settings? Can it really be relaxed on horrible pot-holed roads but nice and firm in Sports mode?[...]





The G Man said:


> [...]The arteon’s normal suspension mode is about the same as the s5’s comfort mode. In sport mode, both feel about the same stiffness but the arteon is just bumpy on sport mode, it doesnt really improve the handling that much. The S5 in sport handles better than the arteon but not by as much as one might think. The arteon is more suited as a cruiser and not a car that will eat up the turns.[...]


Maybe I have low standards, but with that caveat aside ... although I definitely agree that the Arteon is a more of "cruiser" or "grand tourer" that a taut sports sedan, I find that the suspension settings definitely do make a difference.
My default is Custom with the suspension set partway past Normal toward Sport.
Twisty secondary highways with relatively smooth pavement, I feel that it handles better when I put it in Sport.
(And fortunately the button for that is nicely positioned, unlikely the steering wheel heater that is on the *passenger* side of the shifter, even with all the button blanks on the left side!?!)
When those secondary highways have rough pavement (I'm looking at you MA 116 just outside of Adams) I switch it into Normal or even Comfort.
I also experimented with setting Custom for the suspension even stiffer than Sport on super-twisty secondary highway with smooth pavement (MA 2 between North Adams and Charlemont): an absolute hoot around the curves (w/o any passengers), but way too harsh a ride to tolerate for very long.


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## buffym (Jul 11, 2019)

I hope the customers who bought the two CC's in December got an amazing deal! :laugh:


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

buffym said:


> I hope the customers who bought the two CC's in December got an amazing deal! :laugh:


So funny- i was looking at the CC/Touareg sales for December- I guess I get the Touareg since there were 2016 diesels that were never titled and could technically be sold new now that dieselgate has settled, but as for the CC- that seems weird; How does a car sit for nearly 3 years?


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> Maybe I have low standards, but with that caveat aside ... although I definitely agree that the Arteon is a more of "cruiser" or "grand tourer" that a taut sports sedan, I find that the suspension settings definitely do make a difference.
> My default is Custom with the suspension set partway past Normal toward Sport.
> Twisty secondary highways with relatively smooth pavement, I feel that it handles better when I put it in Sport.
> (And fortunately the button for that is nicely positioned, unlikely the steering wheel heater that is on the *passenger* side of the shifter, even with all the button blanks on the left side!?!)
> ...


You do not have low standards at All, in fact if I have to choose between the arteons suspension setup compare to my S5 with adaptive suspension, I would pick the arteon any day of the week.


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## buffym (Jul 11, 2019)

Looks like VW has switched to quarterly US sales reporting so we won't see any new figures until April.

https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1252


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## buffym (Jul 11, 2019)

Volkswagen Q1 2020 sales results

https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1278

788 Arteons sold.


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## randyvr6 (Aug 17, 1999)

buffym said:


> Volkswagen Q1 2020 sales results
> 
> https://media.vw.com/en-us/releases/1278
> 
> 788 Arteons sold.


And 17 more CC


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## buffym (Jul 11, 2019)

randyvr6 said:


> And 17 more CC


I know right?? How do people find these cars!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

randyvr6 said:


> And 17 more CC





buffym said:


> I know right?? How do people find these cars!


There are 5 new ones on cars.com right now:

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...archSource=QUICK_FORM&stkTypId=28880&zc=80221


They all look identical to my 2013 sport manual. VW didn't change much over the refreshed years of the CC.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Speaking of CCs- I came across this uber rare 2016 CC Trend. It was below the sport trim and only available for 2016- had the euro rims and no fog lights or lighting package (which they literally all had tacked on with AFS and LED DRL).










https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/799937862/overview/


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

I think not a single Arteon has been sold within 75 miles of my area. The count of 2019 models has remained around 38 or 39. It's possible a few new 2019s entered the market during that time, but I doubt that would be very many.

So when do you think VW will bump the dealer cashback on this car to say $8k?


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## randyvr6 (Aug 17, 1999)

ice4life said:


> There are 5 new ones on cars.com right now:
> 
> https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...archSource=QUICK_FORM&stkTypId=28880&zc=80221
> 
> ...


They are seriously asking between 29K and 36K for 3-4 yr old cars. No wonder they are still available :screwy:


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

randyvr6 said:


> They are seriously asking between 29K and 36K for 3-4 yr old cars. No wonder they are still available :screwy:


So, it there some reason a new vehicle can't be worth $36K?


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

I have long thought the CC in white was one of the sharpest cars VW ever made. Even looked at a few lightly used ones before deciding on the Passat GT.


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## paul.dickson (Apr 29, 2020)

Even though it has been 10 months since you asked your question... Nope, I have not seen a single one on the road in the Portland, OR metro area. The dealerships here did not get a huge allotment to begin with, and when I bought mine 3 weeks ago, the dealer stated that they will not be receiving any of the 2020 models. She was pretty upset at the lack of marketing support from VoA.


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## Jhawkcclux (Mar 10, 2011)

paul.dickson said:


> Even though it has been 10 months since you asked your question... Nope, I have not seen a single one on the road in the Portland, OR metro area. The dealerships here did not get a huge allotment to begin with, and when I bought mine 3 weeks ago, the dealer stated that they will not be receiving any of the 2020 models. She was pretty upset at the lack of marketing support from VoA.


Been driving many different VW’s since 1989, have 2 currently. I am amazed how poorly this brand or these cars in particular (CC, Arteon) have been marketed over the years. Clearly VW is a big company and spend $$ on market research, but still. And don’t get me started on options and wheels. Why do I have to get nav? I have a damn phone!


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

Even the service manager at my dealer told me recently "VW has a long history of failing to market their best products". That pretty much sums it up.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Jhawkcclux said:


> Been driving many different VW’s since 1989, have 2 currently. I am amazed how poorly this brand or these cars in particular (CC, Arteon) have been marketed over the years. Clearly VW is a big company and spend $$ on market research, but still. And don’t get me started on options and wheels. Why do I have to get nav? I have a damn phone!


And yet, they are the 1st or 2nd maker buy sales year after year....they know what they are doing.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Jhawkcclux said:


> .....Why do I have to get nav? I have a damn phone!


Not everyone carries a phone around everywhere they go.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

KCJeep said:


> Even the service manager at my dealer told me recently "VW has a long history of failing to market their best products". That pretty much sums it up.


Then how did they become so successful?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

KCJeep said:


> Even the service manager at my dealer told me recently "VW has a long history of failing to market their best products". That pretty much sums it up.


Go figure a VW service manager who specializes in marketing. I can't imagine why he doesn't work in marketing in Herndon. 

Give me a break with the anecdotes they give you. Every VW service manager thinks they have the wisdom of a GM or even an exec because they see vehicles roll through their service bay. What does one have to do with the other?

They could've put this thing in every newspaper, YouTube add, tv commercial etc and people still wouldn't buy it because people say one thing and act on another. It's the future of marketing to study ancillary market segmentation and get ahead of it. 

This car was an ancillary marketing tool to bridge the gap between the poor Jetta drivers and rich Touareg drivers to get them ready for the inevitably overpriced ID lineup within a few years, since VW no longer had a truly premium expensive product (the Atlas being the closest but not a 1:1 given the segment and pricing competition). 

News flash, VW messed it up as they always do.


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

ice4life said:


> Go figure a VW service manager who specializes in marketing. I can't imagine why he doesn't work in marketing in Herndon.
> 
> Give me a break with the anecdotes they give you. Every VW service manager thinks they have the wisdom of a GM or even an exec because they see vehicles roll through their service bay. What does one have to do with the other?
> 
> ...



I kinda like the fact that there are relatively no Arteons on the road.... it definitely makes it special to drive one when they look so good.

Regarding marketing, I see alot of Kia Stingers and Accord Sports/Touring around so I think VW could have done a better job with marketing, product placement and pricing. I went from a CC 2.0 (still have) to a Hyundai Genesis V8 (totaled, my fault) to an Audi A7 (totaled, not my fault) to the Arteon. I was dead in between a A5 Sportback and the Arteon.....the Sportback with the same engine had a whole different drive feel...I only ended up going for the Arteon because I got $11K off and the 6 yr warranty (I was also wary of assuming the costs of an Audi during coronavirus uncertainty). It was a little bit of adjustment going from the A7 to the Arteon, but I now love driving the Arteon.... my plan is to do the APR plus soon to get that little bit of oomph...

My point is that VW's Arteon list prices chased away the Accord base, made it too close to the Audi range but the design/performance is not tuned enough to the Audi base....in the end the pricing discounts put it back into the sweet spot between Passat and Audi (or Audi A3 and A5), but no one is paying attention as the reviews all used the high list price to knock it out of consideration.....


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

PatrickC007 said:


> ....
> on top of that, it literally is a way to get people to show up at the dealer itself. but then all of the dealer applied "options"... i.e. delivery fee, dealer process fee, security etching, paint protection and so on...they add on 5k just for their "options" alone.


 What kind of idiot customer would buy a vehicle with things on it they didn't want. The customer has the power, not the dealer.


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## drod2045 (Jul 8, 2016)

eteather said:


> I kinda like the fact that there are relatively no Arteons on the road.... it definitely makes it special to drive one when they look so good.
> 
> ...
> 
> My point is that VW's Arteon list prices chased away the Accord base, made it too close to the Audi range but the design/performance is not tuned enough to the Audi base....in the end the pricing discounts put it back into the sweet spot between Passat and Audi (or Audi A3 and A5), but no one is paying attention as the reviews all used the high list price to knock it out of consideration.....


This and this


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## EPilot (Jul 27, 1999)

ice4life said:


> This car was an ancillary marketing tool to bridge the gap between the poor Jetta drivers and rich Touareg drivers to get them ready for the inevitably overpriced ID lineup within a few years, since VW no longer had a truly premium expensive product (the Atlas being the closest but not a 1:1 given the segment and pricing competition).


Where has VW written that this is the case? 

The Arteon was still born from the start. 
Late late late introduction from when the car was first shown. 
No marketing. Most buyers don't even know it exists or think it's an updated CC which nobody bought either. 
Overpriced. 
It was a failure from the start. That's the problem.

There can be every kind of excuse given of how it was a "halo" car to get people ready for the next thing. But in the end the car is a failure. 
Pretty much the same way the Corrado was a failure. It didn't bring in buyers salivating for some other model. 
There were new Corrados sitting on dealer's lots up until 1997 because they couldn't sell them.

The same is going to be with the Arteon. VW will stop selling these and there will be models sitting on lots for years after.

I'm sorry to say all this but it's real truth and it's tough.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

eteather said:


> I was dead in between a A5 Sportback and the Arteon.....the Sportback with the same engine had a whole different drive feel...I only ended up going for the Arteon because I got $11K off and the 6 yr warranty (I was also wary of assuming the costs of an Audi during coronavirus uncertainty). It was a little bit of adjustment going from the A7 to the Arteon, but I now love driving the Arteon.....


When did you buy your Arteon? I wonder if one can get even more off from MSRP right now.

I too am debating between an Arteon and an Audi Sportback, A5 or more likely S5. How different did you find the "drive feel" to be (did the Audi have a sports suspension?). In what ways did the Arteon fall short compared to the A7?

Doesn't the Premium have 20" wheels? How do those feel on bad pavement? I am leaning towards sticking to a trim with 18" wheels. I am not even decided on FWD vs AWD, but I am pretty sure I want an SEL, not an SE (not that many SELs to chose from though).


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

av_audi said:


> eteather said:
> 
> 
> > I was dead in between a A5 Sportback and the Arteon.....the Sportback with the same engine had a whole different drive feel...I only ended up going for the Arteon because I got $11K off and the 6 yr warranty (I was also wary of assuming the costs of an Audi during coronavirus uncertainty). It was a little bit of adjustment going from the A7 to the Arteon, but I now love driving the
> ...



I bought my SEL P late February for 34k new with 65 miles. The A5 has a tighter punch/acceleration in low gear...feels more sporty. My issue is that I have to have ACC and you can only get that on the A5 prestige trim which puts it easily 20k more than what I paid. I saw a S5 Sportback yesterday at my kids drive through BDAY..looked and sounded pretty nice, but smaller than the Arteon. The A7 was a dream being super smooth and somewhat sporty...arteon feels close but lacks the low end torque. tech in Arteon beats A7 through 2018...

I've got 19" wheels same as what I had on my A7....feels great to me...plenty smooth


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## AlexSky (Nov 2, 2019)

av_audi said:


> When did you buy your Arteon? I wonder if one can get even more off from MSRP right now.
> 
> I too am debating between an Arteon and an Audi Sportback, A5 or more likely S5. How different did you find the "drive feel" to be (did the Audi have a sports suspension?). In what ways did the Arteon fall short compared to the A7?
> 
> Doesn't the Premium have 20" wheels? How do those feel on bad pavement? I am leaning towards sticking to a trim with 18" wheels. I am not even decided on FWD vs AWD, but I am pretty sure I want an SEL, not an SE (not that many SELs to chose from though).


Being from Montreal (Where bad pavement is all we have) and I have 0 issue with the 20'' rosarios.
I mean, I'm being careful and all but I don't think it's going to be an issue.

A nasty pothole will smash an 18-19-20'' rim anyway... 
Coming from my 18'' winter setup to 20'' summer wheel was such an upgrade. Great handling!

Eteather, threat yourself with APR's stage 1. I feel that's all you need in order to forget the A5, maybe even the A7!
My friend's got a loaded 2019 A7 and for the price difference, the Arteon is the clear winner. 
The A7 looks and feels BALLER though. Such a comfortable car.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

eteather said:


> [...]It was a little bit of adjustment going from the A7 to the Arteon, but I now love driving the Arteon.... my plan is to do the APR plus soon to get that little bit of oomph...


I'm amazed that doesn't feel like a fall from grace!
Granted I've never been inside an Audi other than a really old and basic A4, but the A7 sounds like such a big step up from the Arteon ... as well as a 2x price increase, so I've never been tempted by that.




eteather said:


> [...]My point is that VW's Arteon list prices chased away the Accord base, made it too close to the Audi range but the design/performance is not tuned enough to the Audi base....in the end the pricing discounts put it back into the sweet spot between Passat and Audi (or Audi A3 and A5), but no one is paying attention as the reviews all used the high list price to knock it out of consideration.....


Yes, exactly, like a variation on the old line, "nobody goes there anymore it's too crowded": nobody bought the Arteon b/c it was too expensive (which meant it was no longer expensive).




av_audi said:


> Doesn't the Premium have 20" wheels? How do those feel on bad pavement?[...]


The 2019 SEL-P came with 19"; 2020 comes with 20".
The Premium features really are useful -- I'm glad I paid the extra $ for them!
Plus you get a full-size spare with TPMS, so you can do a five-wheel rotation pattern, which will also mean big savings if you ever blow out a tire and then don't have to replace all four.
(I have no idea how the 20" feels on rough pavement, but the 19" is okay, even though my 18" winter setup definitely feels a bit more cushy on really rough stuff.)




eteather said:


> I bought my SEL P late February for 34k new with 65 miles.[...]


WHAT?!?
That's about 5k less than anyone else here paid!




eteather said:


> [...]My issue is that I have to have ACC and you can only get that on the A5 prestige trim which puts it easily 20k more than what I paid.[...]


So many comparisons of the A5 vs Arteon omit that (even aside from the different size classes).
ACC is such a nice feature on my Arteon, and I'm amazed the "luxury" models like the A5 require stepping up the top trim to get ACC.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

AlexSky said:


> Being from Montreal (Where bad pavement is all we have).....


And every driver in the USA and Canada thinks the same thing about their particular area. Folks are whiners.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

EPilot said:


> ice4life said:
> 
> 
> > This car was an ancillary marketing tool to bridge the gap between the poor Jetta drivers and rich Touareg drivers to get them ready for the inevitably overpriced ID lineup within a few years, since VW no longer had a truly premium expensive product (the Atlas being the closest but not a 1:1 given the segment and pricing competition).
> ...


Well If the arteon is anything like the corrado, then it'll be worth its msrp in 25 years thanks to places like bat. Here's to the long run!


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

AlexSky said:


> Being from Montreal (Where bad pavement is all we have) and I have 0 issue with the 20'' rosarios.
> I mean, I'm being careful and all but I don't think it's going to be an issue.
> !
> 
> ...



AlexSky, if you insist , I will do it. :laugh:


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## KurtK (Feb 13, 2012)

My local dealer has a 2019 SE 4 motion which is marked down $8K from MSRP. I really love the look of the Arteon and the powertrain would be a step up from my Passat. The higher trim levels bump up too close to the A5 in my opinion. The last time I compared the 2019 models, the Arteon SEL 4 motion was only about $1K less than an A5 Premium trim. I think the Arteon had a few more options like Nav but for the same money it would be hard to justify over the Audi. Having said that, I would need to drive them both back to back for a real comparison. It's certainly possible I would prefer the Arteon and I do know it offers a lot more passenger and luggage space. Buying a discounted 2019 is the way to go in that case.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

KurtK said:


> My local dealer has a 2019 SE 4 motion which is marked down $8K from MSRP.


With a $5K incentive, you could probably get another $1-2k off beyond the already advertised discount.



> The higher trim levels bump up too close to the A5 in my opinion. The last time I compared the 2019 models, the Arteon SEL 4 motion was only about $1K less than an A5 Premium trim.


An SEL Arteon has so many more features than a Premium A5. But the driving experience should be different. Like you said, you would need to drive them back to back to decide which is more important to you.

But I just found out about some apparently widespread problem about the Aisin transmission in the Arteon. So until I find out more, I think I will just hold off buying one.


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