# fire and fuel



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

i searched and only found 2 post.... was wondering if any one on here had any experence with it. i was wondering how it was any diffrent then megasquirt, because i know thats what its based off of but whats the advatages to that system over megasquirt..


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: fire and fuel (raguturbo)*

ttt...... which would be easier to tune a megasquirt system that is pre setup to run , or sds


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: fire and fuel (raguturbo)*

Dave (fire & fuel) sells prebuilt customized mega squirt systems.
He's probably one of the most knowledgable people on MS, and just an incredibly nice guy who is 100% an enthusiast.
I'll probably end up running MS on both my FI cars, and if i do, i'll be going through Fire & Fuel for both systems.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: fire and fuel (raguturbo)*

Fire and Fuel *is* currently Megasquirt ver 2.2 or 3 built to a refined standard. It stays true to the developer's specification while using some enhanced parts and assembly procedures. Very importantly, it is built and supported by people who build VWs. A far more advanced version of F&F is on the way. It will not be based on MS architecture.



_Modified by [email protected] at 11:36 PM 10-13-2005_


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: fire and fuel ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Fire and Fuel *is* currently Megasquirt ver 2.2 or 3 built to a refined standard. It stays true to the developer's specification while using some enhanced parts and assembly procedures. Very importantly, it is built and supported by people who build VWs. A far more advanced version of F&F is on the way. It will not be based on MS architecture.


_Modified by [email protected] at 11:36 PM 10-13-2005_

as far as i have understood it, its like using megasquirt, but is compatible with VAG like 034efi correct?
megasquirt+vag compatability and superior build quality = one hell of a setup if you ask me








now it just needs launch control







but out of the box it comes with more GPO's than my stageIC system did at a lower price doesnt it?
i think i need to buy som USRT stocks?


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

Has anyone proved launch control to work yet? I haven't been following it but last I heard nobody had got it to work.
I'm not talking about seat of the pants I'm talking about real 60ft times. That's as good of a way to measure a launch as there is.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_Has anyone proved launch control to work yet? I haven't been following it but last I heard nobody had got it to work.
I'm not talking about seat of the pants I'm talking about real 60ft times. That's as good of a way to measure a launch as there is.

i was using it but i never bothered to compare since no matter what i did i still had massive wheelspin with the 9a gearing


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Your web site says that for 500 bucks you get the unit, base maps and wiring harness. 
When you say harness do you meen it has all the sensor plugs mounted or do I need to take my old plugs and mount them to your harness?
500 seems cheap. How would this work out for a super charged VR6 car that has 30lb injectors and at last dyno made 310hp along with a bunch of other power adding Bolton's.
Now I am adding shrick 248's a 9-1 gasket and ATP log manifold. So I see the need for better engine control and fueling coming soon. I also have a wide band, EGT and digital boost gage.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*

your putting a log manifold on your supercharged vr6?


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## Scooter98144 (Jul 15, 2002)

*Re: (the4ork)*

I sure am, it will get rid of a fair amount of intercooler plumbing as well as add a solid 20-30 HP. I may also go to a 2.5" pulley and add another 2-3 psi of boost. So I would be looking at a solid 350+ HP.

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_your putting a log manifold on your supercharged vr6?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*

intake mani?


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## vdubspeed (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (Hardcore VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hardcore VW* »_
I'm not talking about seat of the pants I'm talking about real 60ft times. That's as good of a way to measure a launch as there is.

I've wanted to use an anti-lag to build boost but i don't really know how...but really...unless you're running slicks...all tires are just going to spin.
I don't have any fancy launching methods and on drag radials I'm getting a 2.0 60ft which is good enough for me.


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

just got off vacation thanks for all the replies i to was wondering about the harness , does it come with the conectors or is it just a ecu plug with lengths of wire on it


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (Scooter98144)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scooter98144* »_When you say harness do you meen it has all the sensor plugs mounted or do I need to take my old plugs and mount them to your harness?[/url]
The FandF wiring harness is a flying lead type which means that it is completely bare on the engine end. You'd need to integrate your factory plugs, connectors, etc. The best way to do this is to grab the parts from the junkyard. There is a chance that USRT will offer a 100% plug n' play management solution for 1.8T cars.


Scooter98144 said:


> 500 seems cheap. How would this work out for a super charged VR6 car that has 30lb injectors and at last dyno made 310hp along with a bunch of other power adding Bolton's.






Scooter98144 said:


> Such requirements pose no challenges to the FandF ECU whatsoever. A customer's VR6 installation will be finished this or next week.
> 
> _Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_just got off vacation thanks for all the replies. i too was wondering about the harness. does it come with the conectors or is it just a ecu plug with lengths of wire on it?
> 
> As I mentioned to Scooter, you'd need to integrate your own connectors. The 1.8T guys may get a highly-advanced totally plug n' play system by Christmas, though.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: fire and fuel (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_as far as i have understood it, its like using megasquirt, but is compatible with VAG like 034efi correct?

Yep that's a fair description.









_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_now it just needs launch control







but out of the box it comes with more GPO's than my stageIC system did at a lower price doesnt it?

The launch control software is in beta stage right now and is very simple. It works by using a softcut rev limiter to step in when engine acceleration exceeds a user-selectable threshold. For example, if the engine increases in speed faster than 2500rpms/second, the ECU will assume that wheel spin is at fault and will cut power gently. This is not as sophisticated as true traction control systems that use wheel speed sensors, etc.

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i think i need to buy some USRT stocks?


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## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

are you on the public market ?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (scott66)*

ok here is the biggie question....
packages "start" at $500....
question is... do you get spark and fuel control at that price?
i ask b/c 034systems start at $600 but only control fuel at that price, in order to get fuel and ignition, $900... and its only on distributor style
so, to get coilpack driven ignition control and fuel, whats it gonna run?
(equivalent to a stageIc system)


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scott66* »_are you on the public market ?

Um, no.










_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_packages "start" at $500....
question is... do you get spark and fuel control at that price?.. so, to get coilpack driven ignition control and fuel, whats it gonna run?
(equivalent to a stageIc system)

Yes, full spark and fuel control are provided at that price. I don't sell the crank-trigger wheel or the other special ignition parts. However, the easiest and best way to get crank-triggered ignition is with the Ford EDIS system. Aside from the previous link those can be scored at the salvage yard for pennies on the dollar or brand new from the stealership or even from NAPA, etc. Just make sure that you ask for the 4-cyl set up and you'll be good to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i was under the impression that f&f could configure it to use the stock crank sensor also has anyone used a ecu from rs-autosport i think they our a little cheaper


_Modified by raguturbo at 6:22 PM 10-18-2005_


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

RS Autosport offers no support. Buy the system and go away pretty much. Support for stock crank sensor is in the works and will be available very shortly.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_RS Autosport offers no support. Buy the system and go away pretty much. Support for stock crank sensor is in the works and will be available very shortly.

if you can get crank sensor's to work with it, everyone with an aba-T will be buying these








we all know how many budget aba-T's are out there


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

this is too cool, i'll have to tell all my friends that drool over my stageIc system and dream of 16v/aba-T's


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## KineticMotorsport (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Dave is a very good guy to deal with and knows lots about the MS. He is also more than happy to help you any time.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (KineticMotorsport)*

so my friends want to know when its going to be ready /w crank sensor and launch control


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Crank sensor compatibility is just a week or two away, iirc. We're looking for some input about which features you value the most. Is launch control more interesting than knock sensor support? Do you really care about controlling the radiator fan? How about the ability to switch between dual fuel/ignition maps? All comments will be greatly appreciated.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

thats good that you ask this question....
first off let me start by saying this: this system as an entry level budget system (as far as standalones go anyways) will be mostly bought up by inexperienced users, as experienced users have either used a particular system before, and will go back to it if purchasing another, or upgrade to one with more features they want to start using.
that being said an inexperienced user would most benifit by having knock control while they learn to tune the system and drive an aftermarket EFI system on a more stressed engine.
i used the dual map switching quite often, but not so often as an on/off style... mainly manually before i drive the car out of the driveway, or if i know im going to need the extra power like when going to the track or filling up on race gas...
but it would be nice to be able to switch back and forth via a switch (like sns) than having to fiddle with the laptop, especially while driving... its hard to play with the laptop. unless you have a passenger that knows how to do it
radiator fan, least of worries, but a good feature to have. i have the giant mkII alumnium radiator... i can get away with normal driving without the fan coming on at all. when im at idle for a long period of time i turn it on via switch, or if im in the race map or boosting in town alot. and also on very hot days. but usually its off.
but in terms of if someone bought this system today, then they would have to take time installing it, or finishing up the build... the first things they would use would be the knock support rather than the anti lag. so i would say finish up the knock support as fast as u can, and then start on the rest....
this way users can use the more "usable" features at first and then slowly add the cool upgrade features later. it wasnt but several weeks before i tried using the launch control mainly because i had to learn how to tune, tune, and then i was ready to do extra features.
the most handy of the 034 features was the fuel pump relay trigger through the GPO http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

hope that helps. oh and i never even switched maps unless i was using a different type of gas... and how often is that? i could switch from 7psi to 18psi with just the bc w/o having to alter the map http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Thanks for the input, my man. The good news is that knock support is very feasible for us to make a standard option. I'd love to hear from other folks about what they value, too.


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I would value a link to how to tune standalone so I understood the rest of that.
I currently have an SNS chip the the corrado, and don't know how well that'll take to more boost or larger injectors. That has me wondering where to find the money for a standalone system.


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i belive this is what you need for the knock support http://www.viatrack.ca


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

I too would like knock control and radiator fan support, at least to help with setting it up and making it a reliable system. Launch control I wouldn't worry about till it I have it running and fine tuned well, and even then I wouldn't need it right away. The dual map would be nice but not completely nessesary with a MBC.


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*

in order to switch maps you have to go into the pc and switch theme? also is it nesecary to have the laptop hooked to the msns all the time or just when tuning?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_i belive this is what you need for the knock support http://www.viatrack.ca 

Yes, that is the particular knock control system that our ECUs will be set up to support.

_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_in order to switch maps you have to go into the pc and switch theme? also is it nesecary to have the laptop hooked to the msns all the time or just when tuning?

Switching maps would most effectively done with some sort of external switch. Here are a few examples of how it could be done: 
a) manual dash switch for changing from to pump gas to race fuel modes
b) nitrous solenoid activation signals ECU to automatically switch to conservative timing and increased fueling for a laptop tunable dry set up
c) water injection solenoid automatically triggers ECU to switch to different map while supporting 10psi more boost
A laptop is only required for tuning -not for actually running the car. In this respect it is like every other quality standalone system. The computer may periodically be used for diagnosing sensor health (like an OBD scan) and for tweaking settings. Otherwise just program it and then walk away.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_I too would like knock control and radiator fan support, at least to help with setting it up and making it a reliable system. Launch control I wouldn't worry about till it I have it running and fine tuned well, and even then I wouldn't need it right away. The dual map would be nice but not completely nessesary with a MBC.

Thanks for the input, Jason. Please keep the comments flying, folks. We're listening and this directly influences how this system evolves.


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I don't know if I'm being ignored or just looked over, but I have asked here, and through USRT's "contact us" site; and I have not been acknowledged. I would like to know where to find information on how to tune these systems incase i find out after putting my car back together if I will need to use standalone. I am not the usual "I want to turbo my car" kid and would like some reasonable feedback.
Thank you.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (thetwodubheads)*

most systems are pretty basic...
sorry i cant hook you up with some links but i have read a few links on how to tune for fuel and timing. once you get an understanding of what exactly certain values or functions do and what they are used for it becomes quite easy.
i still have a little trouble tuning for timing, but i will be doing some more reading on it and using some more instruments to help out....
things you'll have to tune for:
air to fuel ratio, most cars run ~14.7 that are not boosted for max fuel economy. that is too lean for a turbo car, as close to 12:1 flat is a good starting point, i first tuned mine between 10.5 and 11.5, then made it more flat and brought it slightly up to ~12-12.5
timing, this is what i kinda suck at so dont quote me on this...
for every 1psi of boost you need to retard timing 1 degree...
example 4000rpm=9psi= 18* timing, 4300rpm=10psi= 17* of timing.
there will be a few ways to tune the timing map...
1 is based upon manifold pressure (boost) for a retard in timing as boost increases
2. is a basic timing map based purly on rpm only
3. is a teperature based timing map, the hotter the engine, the less timing
all 3 of those variables come together to finally make the timing on the motor








edit: 4 variables, forgot air intake temp


_Modified by the4ork at 7:40 AM 10-22-2005_


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Thank you, I figured it was something like that, just didn't know what variables i'll have to learn about. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (thetwodubheads)*

some words to look up
timing map
air/fuel ratio
EGT
thati'll start you off


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (thetwodubheads)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thetwodubheads* »_I don't know if I'm being ignored or just looked over, but I... have not been acknowledged. I would like to know where to find information on how to tune these systems... Thank you.

Kasey, I apologize for not getting back to you sooner. You've asked a very intelligent question which could take hours to answer completely. That is, if you are looking for a complete guide with all factors fully explained. So, aside from what The4ork graciously shared, I'd point you to this link here. These forums are chock full of great information that applies directly to Fire and Fuel. Please let me know what else I may share with you. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

After a quick look through, that is exactly what I was looking for http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks, now I'll have some reading to do...


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## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (thetwodubheads)*

I'm very intersted in the MS setup.. I currently have c2s software and it is very rich when getting in to boost, and the only way to fix thius is to have someone reburn the chip, waiting time, etc. I don't want to deal with this anymore, so standalone it is. I have a VR turbo, so would the $500 setup get me up and running or would I need to get additional equipment? I have't installed or tuned standalone but I can learn. Please let me know, thanks. Ohh one more thing, is a base map available for the VR to at least get it running and whatnot?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (95GLS)*

im just curious as to what the differences are between your setups and megasquirt? looks like you guys are selling prepackaged MSnS -e setups for vws, right?


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## Kameirocco (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Hey scott... i'm curious. would this have a better application and tuning capibilities on an NA motor on stock management? i know the answer will likely be yes, but i'm just curious because i see that mostly everyone running stand alone and the like are under boosted applications..
TIA!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Kameirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kameirocco* »_Hey scott... i'm curious. would this have a better application and tuning capibilities on an NA motor on stock management? i know the answer will likely be yes, but i'm just curious because i see that mostly everyone running stand alone and the like are under boosted applications.

The benefits are there in any application, not just boosted cars! If you're currently on CIS, Digi, or even full Motronic, MS offers something that those systems don't, complete tunability. That may be for better or worse, depending on your skill level/knowlege about how engines, fuel injection, tuning, etc works.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95GLS* »_I have a VR turbo, so would the $500 setup get me up and running or would I need to get additional equipment?.. Ohh one more thing, is a base map available for the VR to at least get it running and whatnot?

VR6 engines will require some extra ignition components since they can't trigger with hall sensors or use a distributor. You guys will use your stock crank-trigger equipment and coil packs. Prices and availability for these bits will be announced soon.

_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_im just curious as to what the differences are between your setups and megasquirt? looks like you guys are selling prepackaged MSnS -e setups for vws, right?









Right now, FandF is based on MSnS -e. The hardware is built to our specifications. -an approach which differs from the mainstream in some respects. The biggest value adds is the VW-specific support, provision of base maps, etc. With that said, there is a more advanced version in the works that is completely independent of the current technology.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

http://www.efi101.com


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

scott in your opinion what is the advatages/disadvatages of; waste spark(individual coil pack) ignition over a single coil and destributor. also what is the diffrence between f&f titanium series and there platnium series ecus


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_scott in your opinion what is the advatages/disadvatages of; waste spark(individual coil pack) ignition over a single coil and destributor. also what is the diffrence between f&f titanium series and there platnium series ecus

Since these ECUs do batch fire injection only the accuracy that crank-triggering provides is not a super-significant advantage. -not until you get into some really high rpms, anyway. For most VW 4-cyl users the coil and distributor performance is fine. However, only CIS and Digifant distributors (4-window hall sensor) can be used. So... those must be purchased extra on the Motronic-managed vehicles (i.e. 2.0l crossflow 8v). That's for the OBD1 cars only, of course, because the later 2.0 8v engines don't even have distributors. VR6s never came with 6-window hall distributors. So, for these engines the stock crank trigger and coil packs are the way to go. FandF will support these engines in a matter of weeks.
Now... about the Titanium vs. Platinum versions... Both are great values. The Titanium is the better choice if all you want is just the basic fuel and ignition control. I'd choose the more advanced Platinum version if you want lots of extra features. After a point it actually becomes less expensive than a fully-outfitted Titanium box. If you'd like to discuss a specific configuration and price tag for it, then shoot me an email. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

also do you have any good links on wireing msns into a mkII with digi II.ie were to tap into for the fuel pump relay things of that sort. And i was alos wondering if there is any probplems with the gagues once you remove the stock ecu thanks again


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

all of the wiring diagrams you need are on megasquirt.info and can be found on msefi.com as well








typically, most people will run the factory fuel pump relay and leave that seperate of MS...as for the gauges, i think it depends on which car youre talking about, if you take your time pulling the old wiring out of the car, i dont think youd run into any problems keeping your stock gauge wiring


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (raguturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *raguturbo* »_And i was alos wondering if there is any probplems with the gagues once you remove the stock ecu thanks again

Ya, the later model (Mk4) cars need special support for their gauges. Anything older than that is supported directly by FandF. These are great questions, guys. Keep'm coming. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i wish i could figure out how to get 034 to work with my tach









but im a dummy... st00pid mkII tachs


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_That's for the OBD1 cars only, of course, because the later 2.0 8v engines don't even have distributors.









OBD2 Mk3 2L cars have distributors as well, they didn't go coilpacks until the Mk4's. Get Dave to finish up the VR input so these poor souls don't have to dig up ancient distros from Mk2s to run their cars


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
OBD2 Mk3 2L cars have distributors as well, they didn't go coilpacks until the Mk4's. Get Dave to finish up the VR input so these poor souls don't have to dig up ancient distros from Mk2s to run their cars









True enough, Paul; you're right. The Mk3 distributors aren't compatible with FandF, though, because they've only got 1-window hall sensors. Anywho, I'm hammering Dave pretty much every day about the VR triggering. I'll bet he cringes every time my IMs pop up because he can hear the whip cracking at the same time.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Have him FedEx me a V3 board and I'll have it running on a car within a week. BooYa!


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## derekste (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Right now, FandF is based on MSnS -e. The hardware is built to our specifications. -an approach which differs from the mainstream in some respects. The biggest value adds is the VW-specific support, provision of base maps, etc. With that said, there is a more advanced version in the works that is completely independent of the current technology.

since it sounds like you are moving off the MS platform, will you be making your code available to the public in the future for those of us already on MS?


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

scott i understand that when the board comes it will be set up for what type of ignition i want but beyond that what else is pre set? if i want to use stock coolant sensor and intake air sensor will i have to then run easytherm? or does fire and fuel set that up as well. also is there any advantage to runing the gm type coolant temp and intake air temp sensors besides the fact that ms is allready configurs for them.Also what needs to be done to allow for the use of knock sensing with the viatrack.com knock box? 
thanks again


_Modified by raguturbo at 5:08 AM 10-26-2005_


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

FanF has a library of stock VW sensor data and is happy to mod the firmware for it. There is no performance difference between the GM sensors and the VW sensors calibrated via Easytherm. So, your decision on what to implement should be based on convenience alone. Its much easier to use sensors that are already there. So, that is what we generally recommend. Ignition is preconfigured as you mentioned and we load a fuel/ignition map that matches the end user's configuration as closely possible.
As for the knock set up, this simply requires that we solder a jumper wire in between the knock input pin on the CPU and one of the optional X11-X14 spare IO pins. You'll need to switch to a 2-wire sensor, though, to replace the 3-wire which VW supplies. These can be scored at the junkyard (from older Volvos) for very little cash.


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: (derekste)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekste* »_since it sounds like you are moving off the MS platform, will you be making your code available to the public in the future for those of us already on MS?

Actually, we'll continue to offer a MS-based ECUs for those who want a simple "bread and butter" solution. We'll make base maps available for all to enjoy and will probably ask that folks donate their code to the collection, too. This will reduce expenses and make it generally easier to get projects up and running. We're on the same page. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Scott F. Williams)*

that would be quite awesome to create a collection of VW MS maps http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: (Scott F. Williams)*

scott i was recently told that if i was to run msns on a wide band o2 all the time , for tuning reasons and wot fuel correction that i would burn out the wideban. i was told that they will burn out if they are ran all the time is there any truth to this


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

The wideband kits that I sell use the same Bosch sensors that are supplied stock in current VWs. They're designed to be used constantly.


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## slappynuts (Feb 27, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Poor dave








All you need to do with the MK3 distributor is install a four hall shaft assy from and MK2 with knock sensor ignition into the MK3 housing(or look for a audi 80 4cyl because this is a 4 hall dist with MK3 dimensions).
If you guys need I can modify your MK3 distributor for $50 to be a 4 hall unit.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (slappynuts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slappynuts* »_If you guys need I can modify your MK3 distributor for $50 to be a 4 hall unit.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

ttt.... keep the FnF info comin'


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## dmband0041 (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (raguturbo)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VW_NUT (Mar 16, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Will the tach signal from the unit or edis unit work a CE-II MKII tachometer? 
edit, found the rest of my answers with the search button


_Modified by VW_NUT at 9:48 AM 12-1-2005_


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (VW_NUT)*

scott what is the difference in signals between the older style gauges and the newer?
you said the newer style needs some adaptation, but the older don't
i ask b/c it appears that 034 uses a different tach signal then the mk2 tach uses. just thought you might be able to help out


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW_NUT* »_Will the tach signal from the unit or edis unit work a CE-II MKII tachometer?

Yep.

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_scott what is the difference in signals between the older style gauges and the newer?

The Mk4 cars speak over a communication network called "CAN Bus". FnF does not currently support such functionality although support for it is in the works.


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

what kind of signal does the cis-e use? do i need to have my ign module in there or something?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Okay, with a V3 ECU you'll just need a digi1 or CIS-E dizzy and a coil. No 7-pin module is needed. However, a V2.2 board ECU requires the 7-pin module. The V3's added an ignition driver chip which is basically what the 7-pin module does.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*

The Mk2 tach (and Mk1 tach) just need a coil - signal to the tach to trigger it. It doesn't like digital 12v it wants a nice beefy high voltage spike to trigger. If you're running EDIS or other multi coil ignition that can be a problem to get. MSD does sell some tach adapters to do these sorts of things.. and I believe the stock reluctor ring on a 16v plug wire can do the same (but will read wrong on the tach).
The Mk3 4cyl tach on the other hand wants a 2pulse/rev 12v square wave, which FnF/MS can support. VR6 wants a single pulse/rev 12v square that FnF/MS can't support, at least yet.


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

^keep in my seen topic^


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_The Mk2 tach (and Mk1 tach) just need a coil - signal to the tach to trigger it.

Explain why MK2's cant get a tach signal from the 034 systems?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I've never heard that 034 had a high freq/voltage tach output for a waste spark setup. If you hook up only 1 coil it reads half, if you start messing with diodes, it won't read well. Whats the solution?


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