# my intake valves at 100,000 miles.



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

cleaned: 










discuss. 
more photos to come, cleaned 'em up and replaced injectors. Misfires went away. Duh. 


_Modified by iGen3 at 10:26 PM 6-14-2009_


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

HOLY MOLLY...that is bad.
What prompted you to check it after 100k miles and more importantly is your car still running.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*

just got tired of the continuous misfires at idle. car runs great otherwise, oh, original DV blew a few months ago has been pssssing boost, replaced that today too and got my FAST back....






















note seafoam/lubromoly didn't make a dent in this stuff. It cleaned #2 and #3 valves themselves a bit, but not the ports. more photos later. 
valves must be seating/sealing well, they held the GM topclean poured in there for as long as I wanted to leave it in there..... but i'd say airflow was reduced by a good 20-25% or more, besides the flow disturbance. 


_Modified by iGen3 at 11:33 PM 6-13-2009_


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

that is quite awful . . . why did you replace injectors? 
Dave


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_that is quite awful . . . why did you replace injectors? 
Dave

because #4 was misfiring, I'm at 100,000k miles, they are cheap, and I had the intake off already. I don't want to go back in there again till 200k, so next up, some kind of PCV delete. I like the idea of the Mann separator, but need to hear more about it and where to get it, also waiting to see what the EJ can looks like, but the cover is kinda steep. 








_Modified by iGen3 at 11:51 PM 6-13-2009_


_Modified by iGen3 at 11:52 PM 6-13-2009_


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

The Mann oil separator is a very good product. 
You definitely wont be able to get the carbo off with seafoam, but you could try the Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner. You may need to run the cleaner every 500km for the next 2500km to see anything clean up.
Best option is always to get the head cleaned, because eventually the valves wil not sit properly.


----------



## dubsker (Jan 8, 2006)

*FV-QR*

oh god.
this makes me want to install w/m injection now.


----------



## aussievfrss (Sep 8, 2008)

to make the most of water meth, you will need to install a spray in each inlet.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (aussievfrss)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aussievfrss* »_The Mann oil separator is a very good product. 
You definitely wont be able to get the carbo off with seafoam, but you could try the Subaru Upper Engine Cleaner. You may need to run the cleaner every 500km for the next 2500km to see anything clean up.
Best option is always to get the head cleaned, because eventually the valves wil not sit properly.

oh, I cleaned them by hand, they're all done. 3 hours (not including intake removal and reinstall) with picks, GM top clean, WallMart Gun cleaning kit, ear syringe, rags, etc. got about 1/3 cup of tar out, not including what came out dissolved in the fluid.


----------



## jpimp61 (Mar 22, 2008)

*Re: (iGen3)*

holy effin $hit


----------



## JLT (May 18, 2008)

yao. thassum ****.


----------



## aeproberts21 (Apr 10, 2007)

*Re: (jpimp61)*

That is amazing (in a bad way). 
Any kind of preventative measures we can take other than a meth kit? 
Obviously the catch can will help some. Doesn't seem like seafoam is the trick.


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (aeproberts21)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aeproberts21* »_Any kind of preventative measures we can take other than a meth kit? 

You can easily completely eliminate the problem through a pcv bypass to exhaust or pcv bypass using downtube.
Only issue (as with a race can) is emissions testing for which you can put it temporarily back to stock.
DIY here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4387972


_Modified by saaber2 at 10:17 AM 6-14-2009_


----------



## SDM (Aug 9, 2007)

I've asked this question before & received no real feedback:
Do we have EGR (exhaust gas reroute) and does it contibute to this problem.
Note: Not talking about the PCV system.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (SDM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SDM* »_
Do we have EGR (exhaust gas reroute) .
 
No EGR


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_








discuss. 
more photos to come, cleaned 'em up and replaced injectors. Misfires went away. Duh. 

That's pretty sad that a modern day engine has that poor of oil control ultimately making the oil vapor you see caked up on those valves.







Bob.G


----------



## SDM (Aug 9, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

Thanks Bob, heard a rumour we had some type of internal EGR setup but obviously just mis-information.


----------



## A3_yuppie (Jun 5, 2006)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_








discuss. 
more photos to come, cleaned 'em up and replaced injectors. Misfires went away. Duh. 

Would the BG fuel air service discussed in the following thread ...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4428786
... prevent or solve this problem?


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (A3_yuppie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A3_yuppie* »_
Would the BG fuel air service discussed in the following thread ...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4428786
... prevent or solve this problem?

only if you did it every 10k miles from new....


----------



## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*

What kind of oil consumption have you been seeing?


----------



## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
That's pretty sad that a modern day engine has that poor of oil control ultimately making the oil vapor you see caked up on those valves.







Bob.G


I've read speculation about valve stem weep as opposed to true PCV "issues". Thoughts?


----------



## seattheodore (May 5, 2009)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (magilson)*

This subject is really sad...
Can I ask a question? I have installed BSH stage 1 and now all the vapors go to turbo. Am I saving anything or I suffer the same amount of vapors to my intake? Did I change only the distance that they travel?


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (seattheodore)*


_Quote, originally posted by *seattheodore* »_This subject is really sad...
Can I ask a question? I have installed BSH stage 1 and now all the vapors go to turbo. Am I saving anything or I suffer the same amount of vapors to my intake? Did I change only the distance that they travel?

The amount is reduced, since the distance now traveled is much bigger and not direct, so
most of the oil vapors liquefy in the pipes.
This means not as much actually enters the manifold, but the drawback is that oil gets
collected in the other areas such the IC pipes, the IC etc.Good thing is that the oil is actually
liquid and since these pipes are on the cold side, the "cooking" of the oil is absent, so it can more easily be removed.
Anyways, the stage 1 fix is not that much different than stock function, since it
just makes the PCV system work in an "always on boost" mode.What this means is that
the only extra burden on the pipes are the vapors that your engine makes in idle or of boost.
But in a car driven daily and pushed, the "ratio" of the "on boostff boost" vapors should be
like 10:1.....


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
I've read speculation about valve stem weep as opposed to true PCV "issues". Thoughts?

I believe you are correct, at least SOME PART of this is from valve stem/seal weep that has been designed in for lubrication......I belive it mentions this in all that patent stuff that has been posted .....so eliminate the PCV AND get regular induction services????


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
I believe you are correct, at least SOME PART of this is from valve stem/seal weep that has been designed in for lubrication

I believe that maybe a very small part of the build up.
IMO The people with large build up will prob show that they where using at least 1 + quarts per 3K miles . 
What was your oil usage?







Bob.G


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
I believe that maybe a very small part of the build up.
IMO The people with large build up will prob show that they where using at least 1 + quarts per 3K miles . 
What was your oil usage?







Bob.G

agreed on minimal impact from stem leakage. My usage was not high, perhaps 1 qt every 5. remember, I'm all the way out at 100k miles. I did the lubromoly at what, 85k or something, throught he IAT sensor, which seems to have washed only the #2 and #3 valve stems, not the ports at all. mobil 0w40 every 10 per the book. might reconsider that too for the next 100k miles... Almost every one of those 100k miles are highway, in "spirited" driving. I hit highway speeds 5 minutes into typical 1.5 to 2+ hour drive any time I hop in. 


_Modified by iGen3 at 7:51 AM 6-15-2009_


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
Almost every one of those 100k miles are highway, in "spirited" driving. I hit highway speeds 5 minutes into typical 1.5 to 2+ hour drive any time I hop in. 

_Modified by iGen3 at 7:51 AM 6-15-2009_

Would you say that during your travel your mostly cruising? or in boost? LMK thanks







Bob.G


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_









discuss. 


_Modified by iGen3 at 10:26 PM 6-14-2009_
 
Nice Job !!!! alot of hard work for that clean up 
Just a heads up for people doing this I would remove the manifold and use a cleaner and let it sit over night to soften and loosen things up a bit . Im going to check mine in the fall thats last time I cleaned my valves and changed out my follower. 
Since then I put a catch can BSH and just starting to run straight water in my W/M kit. I will soon be running 50/50 water meth going forward . I must say that since putting in the catch can Im using hardly any oil and there no real measurable oil in the catch can







. 
Don't know if its the catch can or all of a sudden my rings have seated that my oil consumption is all of a sudden down or what , im about 34K miles total .







Bob.G


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
No EGR 


Bob we do have a slight EGR function done with controlling valve overlap with the cams. While not a true EGR it has similar effects in regards to issues with sludge on the valves and carbon build up. 
With my setup the can catches most of the oil as there are no signs of oil in my intercooler pipes yet I do get some build up, not as much but I get some. This is more then likely from some valve overlap and EGR function.
However reducing the oil from getting to the valves and you'll reduce the effects the EGR may have on it.
Even still I don't feel that a fully external catch can setup is the way to go. Having no vacuum on the crankcase through some sort of PCV setup can cause other issues. Unfortunately a balance needs to be made.


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I don't suppose anyone has done a DIY for removing the intake?


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (jmj)*

Jmj, 
Don't know if these would help or not. Haven't read them:
http://www.vagfans.com/forum/v...t=161
http://www.stasisengineering.c...6.pdf


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_Jmj, 
Don't know if these would help or not. Haven't read them:
http://www.vagfans.com/forum/v...t=161
http://www.stasisengineering.c...6.pdf


I based my procedure on the very good stasis link above. Give me a few days, I'll post up differences for GLI vs. TT, challenges, tips,ideas, etc. frankly the worst part is releasing all the electrical connectors, and the lower Intake bracket bolt.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
Would you say that during your travel your mostly cruising? or in boost? LMK thanks







Bob.G

Once I scream around the on ramp, I'm cruising pretty much. Might punch it up some hills, but mostly just sitting at 3k RPM in 6th, about 90MPH on the gague, or 75 or whatever that is in real life. I'm not jerking it around passing for no reason, etc.


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
I based my procedure on the very good stasis link above. Give me a few days, I'll post up differences for GLI vs. TT, challenges, tips,ideas, etc. frankly the worst part is releasing all the electrical connectors, and the lower Intake bracket bolt. 

Yikes. Looks like a full weekend job for yours truly!


----------



## zeonic (Aug 23, 2008)

excuse my noob ignorance, but will the EJ PCV fix help eliminte this problem even a little bit? im running the EJ fix on my car and debating wheather or not i need to get the catch can set up to help eliminate the deposits. any advise is appreciated


----------



## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

*Re: (zeonic)*

Nope. EJ fix is just another check valve which is suppose to help prevent the PCV valve from breaking under extreme boost, so the oil still getting to your valves.


----------



## zeonic (Aug 23, 2008)

thank you sir. thats what i figured but needed a clarification. will be hunting for a catch can set up then


----------



## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: (zeonic)*

Nasty! Did you have any power loss issues?


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (bificus99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bificus99* »_Nasty! Did you have any power loss issues? 

hard to tell, it kinda creeps up on you over 100,000 miles...then my DV busted at about 95k, THAT i noticed. 
mostly I was annoyed by the everpresent MIL light and the bucking misfires at idle. #4 would misfire more than fire at idle.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

*Re: (zeonic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zeonic* »_thank you sir. thats what i figured but needed a clarification. will be hunting for a catch can set up then









Just hold off on the hunt for a week or so


----------



## zeonic (Aug 23, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Just hold off on the hunt for a week or so
















ok im exited.


----------



## mrlapou (Sep 13, 2007)

Check out June issue of Audi mag. BP did a test using V8 engine. 1 bank 4 feed with their Ultima fuel and the other 4 bank normal octane fuel.. Ultima showed valves stems etc to be ultra clean.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (mrlapou)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrlapou* »_Check out June issue of Audi mag. BP did a test using V8 engine. 1 bank 4 feed with their Ultima fuel and the other 4 bank normal octane fuel.. Ultima showed valves stems etc to be ultra clean. 

what mag, where?? link? was this a DI motor? 
out here in PA, all I can get is this 10% cornohol.


----------



## OOOO-A3 (Jul 20, 2004)

*Re: (mrlapou)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrlapou* »_Check out June issue of Audi mag. BP did a test using V8 engine. 1 bank 4 feed with their Ultima fuel and the other 4 bank normal octane fuel.. Ultima showed valves stems etc to be ultra clean. 

This DOES NOT APPLY to direct-injection engines.


----------



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *OOOO-A3* »_
This DOES NOT APPLY to direct-injection engines.


hahahha never ends does it!


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*

assorted related stuff: 
used this in a febreeze sprayer bottle. emptied the whole thing during this job. 








GUn cleaning kit, $7.87 at WallMart









all this came out of cyl #2. those chunks are the size of raisins. 











































cam follower looking decent at about 17k miles on this one








this seems to be the only way to get at the bolt for the lower end of the cast metal support bracket. note the short throttle hose and dipstick tube are in the way. I'd suggest taping the bolt onto the bracket before replacing it when done, was a bear to locate this during assembly.












_Modified by iGen3 at 8:22 PM 6-16-2009_


----------



## Tanner74 (Jul 28, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Geeze that's horrible. You have to wonder about the emissions benefit with the intake manifold controller having the flap partially closed at idle/light load to create a tumble-effect on the air when it goes into the cylinder chamber. All that crap on the intake valves and everything probably just negated all of that.
I had one misfire back in early February (close to 80,000 km so about half the mileage as yours) but was told to run the engine hard and hot for a prolong period of time (tech was aware of this issue). Nothing else can be done other than pulling things apart but I haven't had a misfire logged (it didn't throw a CEL, I wish I did as I was still on warranty back then). Nothing lately but I do feel the odd hesitation from time to time.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Tanner74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tanner74* »_Geeze that's horrible. You have to wonder about the emissions benefit with the intake manifold controller having the flap partially closed at idle/light load to create a tumble-effect on the air when it goes into the cylinder chamber. All that crap on the intake valves and everything probably just negated all of that.
I had one misfire back in early February (close to 80,000 km so about half the mileage as yours) but was told to run the engine hard and hot for a prolong period of time (tech was aware of this issue). Nothing else can be done other than pulling things apart but I haven't had a misfire logged (it didn't throw a CEL, I wish I did as I was still on warranty back then). Nothing lately but I do feel the odd hesitation from time to time.

LOL, the trouble with this motor is, running it long hard and hot makes the issue WORSE as you bake the crap on the hot head ports. I probably have more than some because my highway miles are always hot miles. (right?? )


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
LOL, the trouble with this motor is, running it long hard and hot makes the issue WORSE as you bake the crap on the hot head ports. I probably have more than some because my highway miles are always hot miles. (right?? ) 

If you drove your car in stop and go traffic with the oil control issues your rings are presenting, then your oil deposits would have certainly been worse... 
i don't think the motor being hot vs cold has anything to do with it... its all about how much oil is slipping past the rings and finding its way through the crappy PCV and eventually onto your intake valves. 
all that oil will get baked on no matter the type of miles you drive...


----------



## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (rhouse181)*

mmmmmm baked on oil......................


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
If you drove your car in stop and go traffic with the oil control issues your rings are presenting, then your oil deposits would have certainly been worse... 
i don't think the motor being hot vs cold has anything to do with it... its all about how much oil is slipping past the rings and finding its way through the crappy PCV and eventually onto your intake valves. 
all that oil will get baked on no matter the type of miles you drive...

I'd buy that argument. my point is that the tech's reccommendation to blow it out on the highway probably isn't going to do much.


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (jmj)*

Using an oil with low volatility should help with this also. Redline and Biosyn are 2 group V ester oils that have low volatility. I believe some amsoil products have really low volatility as well. But of course it is better to completely eliminate these gases going into the intake altogether via a pcv bypass or downtube or some other method.


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
I'd buy that argument. my point is that the tech's reccommendation to blow it out on the highway probably isn't going to do much. 

yea, completely agree that a few high rpm runs would certainly not make a dent in your intake buildup. you took the absolute best course of action to solve your misfire issue... even though it was extremely messy and tediuous work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mrlapou (Sep 13, 2007)

*Re: (iGen3)*

Audi Driver Jun 09 issue..
http://www.audidrivermag.co.uk/


----------



## avidgolfer (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*



iGen3 said:


> Damn.


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
If you drove your car in stop and go traffic with the oil control issues your rings are presenting, then your oil deposits would have certainly been worse... 
i don't think the motor being hot vs cold has anything to do with it... its all about how much oil is slipping past the rings and finding its way through the crappy PCV and eventually onto your intake valves. 
all that oil will get baked on no matter the type of miles you drive...

The PCV is on the side of the oil, hence the name positive crankcase ventilation. It doesn't have to slip past the rings to get sucked up by the PCV, anything that gets past the rings actually bypasses the PCV. 
Yes there are some cars with ring issues which are not helping but that is not the bulk of the issue.
ACtually venting to atmosphere could exagerate this issue causing the rings to not properly seat allowing for more oil to get past the rings and burned but also more blow by past the rings causing the oil to break down quicker.


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The PCV is on the side of the oil, hence the name positive crankcase ventilation. It doesn't have to slip past the rings to get sucked up by the PCV, anything that gets past the rings actually bypasses the PCV. 


I don't understand your statement here... The crankcase contains the oil vapors created due to reciprocating parts beating at the oil, as well as blowby vapor created by poorly seated rings. most definitely will ring issues present as more oil on your intake valves via PCV...


----------



## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
I don't understand your statement here... The crankcase contains the oil vapors created due to reciprocating parts beating at the oil, as well as blowby vapor created by poorly seated rings. most definitely will ring issues present as more oil on your intake valves via PCV...

you said:

_Quote »_its all about how much oil is slipping past the rings and finding its way through the crappy PCV 

The oil slipping past the rings ends up in the combustion chamber and blows out the tailpipe, if it slips past the rings it can't find its way through the "crappy" PCV because its gone.


----------



## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

Doesn't the catch can and using better oil like motul help clean out and prevent these issues? I was told castrol synthetic causes this.


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The oil slipping past the rings ends up in the combustion chamber and blows out the tailpipe, if it slips past the rings it can't find its way through the "crappy" PCV because its gone. 

I completely agree, but things go both ways past the rings if they aren't properly seated and oil control is compromised... that's why people are pulling out all this fuel from their catch cans in addition to oil.


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

....and I thought I was going away from these problems....
us TDI'ers with the ALH motor have severe EGR & intake manifold gunking.


----------



## INYNN (Apr 14, 2008)

I'm glad I have a PCV open-air drain tube after seeing all this!
I just ran 2 cans of seafoam through the car today for good measure after seeing this.


----------



## avidgolfer (Sep 8, 2008)




----------



## [email protected] (Apr 10, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*



> Just hold off on the hunt for a week or so


No need to wait we already have a couple solutions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BSH PCV Catch Can 
BSH Vent To Atmosphere Race Catch Can


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (Malaco0219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Malaco0219* »_Doesn't the catch can and using better oil like motul help clean out and prevent these issues? I was told castrol synthetic causes this.

i can say after doing research on http://www.bobstheoilguy.com certain oils are less effected by fuel dilution and less prone to this to a degree. will switching to Motul(which im actually doing) cure this issue?? I doubt that but i bet it will help in regards to fuel dilution aka oil breakdown.


----------



## Malaco0219 (Mar 18, 2007)

*Re: (RABIDRABBIT1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RABIDRABBIT1983* »_
i can say after doing research on http://www.bobstheoilguy.com certain oils are less effected by fuel dilution and less prone to this to a degree. will switching to Motul(which im actually doing) cure this issue?? I doubt that but i bet it will help in regards to fuel dilution aka oil breakdown. 

Thanks, I'm looking at motul engine cleaner before my next oil change.


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (RABIDRABBIT1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RABIDRABBIT1983* »_
i can say after doing research on http://www.bobstheoilguy.com certain oils are less effected by fuel dilution and less prone to this to a degree. will switching to Motul(which im actually doing) cure this issue?? I doubt that but i bet it will help in regards to fuel dilution aka oil breakdown. 

Motul is good quality oil, but it certainly won't cure the problem. It will just take a little longer for your valves to look like that...


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
Motul is good quality oil, but it certainly won't cure the problem. It will just take a little longer for your valves to look like that...

I agree. I'm running a catchcan which will help more then oil. I'm swicthing to the motul to aid in fuel dilution resistance. I'm going to have oil tests done with gc and motul


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

My car hardly uses any oil. I pull my EJ PCV Fix off every 6000 miles or so & check it out... its pretty freakin clean. It has only the slightest indication of oil inside it but nothing to speak of like I hear about on the forums concerning other peoples cars.


_Modified by rippie74 at 2:52 PM 7-2-2009_


----------



## MP413Racer (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
No need to wait we already have a couple solutions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BSH PCV Catch Can 
BSH Vent To Atmosphere Race Catch Can 
























gotta love marketing!


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 10, 2009)

*Re: (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_My car hardly uses any oil. I pull my EJ PCV Fix off every 6000 miles or so & check it out... its pretty freakin clean. It has only the slightest indication of oil inside it but nothing to speak of like I hear about on the forums concerning other peoples cars.

_Modified by rippie74 at 2:52 PM 7-2-2009_

(not a marketing attempt)








Maybe your check valve is backwards, or the valve is broken...?
I have never seen a MKV that doesn't blow a bunch of oil through the system...?


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
(not a marketing attempt)








Maybe your check valve is backwards, or the valve is broken...?
I have never seen a MKV that doesn't blow a bunch of oil through the system...?









Backwards or broken? Nope, the arrow on the check valve is facing the front of the car. It works fine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

omg, all that gunk made me **** my pants...
what the hell where those crazy Germans thinking???


----------



## VDub_GLI (Jul 2, 2007)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (iGen3)*

I'm just curious if either of the oil separators in the crankcase ventilation system (the primary oil separator and pcv valve on the valve cover) could be plugged causing it to pull all of that oil right up into the cylinder head? It just seems like there could be an issue somewhere else causing that much oil to be building up on the valves. Great job on the cleaning though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Found a pic of the system--->


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (VDub_GLI)*

the factory PCV system is shoddy at best and has gone through several design changes on the valve itself. The majority of the crowd around here pushes these cars far past factory specs compounding the issue with more boost. 
Its also the nature of direct injection. There is no gas hitting hitting the valves like in a conventional fuel injection setup. 
There is a article on bob the oil guy and ive scene it posted here by VW engineers. They go on to say that with a EGR system and direct injection.......carbon buildup at unacceptable levels is unavoidable. 
to help slow the process run a catch can, do regular induction services, and high quality synthetic motor oil.


----------



## VDub_GLI (Jul 2, 2007)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (RABIDRABBIT1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RABIDRABBIT1983* »_the factory PCV system is shoddy at best and has gone through several design changes on the valve itself. The majority of the crowd around here pushes these cars far past factory specs compounding the issue with more boost. 
Its also the nature of direct injection. There is no gas hitting hitting the valves like in a conventional fuel injection setup. 
There is a article on bob the oil guy and ive scene it posted here by VW engineers. They go on to say that with a EGR system and direct injection.......carbon buildup at unacceptable levels is unavoidable. 
to help slow the process run a catch can, do regular induction services, and high quality synthetic motor oil. 

That's some good info to know. Thanks for the reply. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (VDub_GLI)*

lol, so, im at 62,000 miles and the previous owner did not take care of this car... at all... blown PCV valve, tons of oil leaking out of the BOV spacer, oil in the intercooler... crappy coil packs... (and yes, the PCV valve was to blame for all of this.. i swapped it out and presto... the engine was a MILLION times better.)

i seafoamed the HELL out of the engine, took apart the intercooler pipes and cleaned everything out, changed all the coil packs and spark plugs... she runs like a champ... expect for at idle... she has an annoying "hiccup" that she get's after a few seconds of idle that feel almost like tiny misfires... Am I in for a crazy long cleaning process for my intake valves???
cuz if I'm gonna go through all that crap, im just going to custom fab an aluminum intake manifold and replace my valves and springs... and ill tap it and run W/M inj. on top of a catch can.
I hate how this engine is just horrible laid out... I mean, who dumps oil on intake valves that don't get cleaned??? You'd think they'd set up a small injector upstream that squirts at idle... or 4 small injectors that spray each valve and port after the car shuts down... or at least make it super easy to clean ur intake valves and let the buyer know it will be an issue down the road.
ah, but the car is far too sexy to stay mad at... I think it's the sound of the turbo that keeps me coming back for more.










_Modified by Krieger at 8:07 AM 7-4-2009_


----------



## jsharp4684 (Jun 18, 2009)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (Krieger)*

Well here goes my first post and my two cents on the subject.
I'm a Air Force vehicle mechanic (currently in Iraq)...I've been doing the job for 7yrs now. At home station we don't get much in the way of emissions issues with our fleet as far as sludge build-up etc because the vehicles are ran hard. This goes for gas and diesel drivetrains. Something we've run into a lot here in the desert is severe sludge build-up. We attribute this partly to poor quality oil, but mostly to very low engine speeds. 
You see, your mechanic's recommendation of frequent hard and hot runs is a sound one. Our speed limit on base here is 20mph, so the vehicles don't get hot enough internally and the engine speed stays very low (much as it would during a lengthy cruise down the highway). Our solution to the build-up is weekly "run-ups". When we do a run up we use a closed off taxi-way and run the vehicle through the gears as close to redline as possible (mostly auto trans). And sustain speeds around 70-75mph as close to redline as possible for around 2miles...ideally we would go for 4-5mi if we had the time/road length.
So, take my suggestion for what it's worth. Frequent hard runs should serve to keep your build-up down. The reason the oil wouldn't continue to (or worsen) build-up with the heat is because it works on the same principle as a self cleaning oven, only your engine just burns up what flakes off.
Sorry such a long post, but that's my experience and two cents.

_Modified by jsharp4684 at 1:34 PM 7-4-2009_


_Modified by jsharp4684 at 1:36 PM 7-4-2009_


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: my intake valves at 100,000 miles. (jsharp4684)*

The valve deposit issue is discussed at length in VW's patent for the DI engine like rapidrabbit said. The solution is to eliminate pcv gunk getting to the valves through a pcv bypass or some other method. 
Mechanical cleaning, seafoaming, and running an oil with lower volatility and/or better cleaning properties may help also. Look here for the pcv bypass to exhaust DIY and also the vw patent info. describing the problem: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...54010


----------



## Layman (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
No need to wait we already have a couple solutions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BSH PCV Catch Can 
BSH Vent To Atmosphere Race Catch Can 



Will the standard catch can install beneath the stock engine cover?


----------



## TGZ (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: (Layman)*

As far as a complete system that is available for purchase, would the vent to air catch can bsh offers be the best option to preventing this, or do we need to wait until somebody makes a complete pcv bypass?
I've been running on stock pcv and dv 18k miles and have not blown either one yet so I figured I would leave them as is. After seeing this thread I think I need to act now. I was planning on keeping this car a long time....


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (TGZ)*

IMO the only effective way to deal with this issue is to completely eliminate any crankcase evacuation gasses getting into the intake tract. This complete elimination is exactly what VW themselves say would solve the problem in their patent for the engine.
We know from RL_RS4's work that buildup occurs as fast as 800 miles after cleaning. 
F.e. Here are cleaned valves: 








and after 2000 miles they looked like this:








So at 18k I would get on it asap. Here is an example of one car at 22k miles as a "worst case scenario":









In regards to a catch can. The deposits in the second picture above took place after going through the triple cyclonic audi oil seperator, a very efficient "catch can". This image is from RL_RS4. 












_Modified by saaber2 at 10:34 AM 7-5-2009_


----------



## jsharp4684 (Jun 18, 2009)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the illustrations it seems all you need is a cap for the exhaust outlet, a cap for the intake outlet, a block off plate for the PCV and a check-valved tube that runs from oil seperator to the exhaust outlet. Kind of like the BSH PCV Revamp linked above. Has anyone run that after cleaning their valves to see if it does in fact solve the problem?



_Modified by jsharp4684 at 11:04 AM 7-5-2009_


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (jsharp4684)*

Not sure I am following what u r saying but r u saying run a line from the oil separator to the turbo? (I mean where the old line from the valve cover to the turbo was) If so, then whatever gunk that makes it past the oil separator is going back into the intake tract.


_Modified by saaber2 at 11:22 AM 7-5-2009_


----------



## Layman (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (jsharp4684)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsharp4684* »_Correct me if I'm wrong, but from the illustrations it seems all you need is a cap for the exhaust outlet, a cap for the intake outlet, a block off plate for the PCV and a check-valved tube that runs from oil seperator to the exhaust outlet. Kind of like the BSH PCV Revamp linked above. Has anyone run that after cleaning their valves to see if it does in fact solve the problem?

It sound like you're trying to block off all ports associated with PCV. AFAIK, you need the PCV valve no matter what in order to allow the crankcase "breath out."


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: (TGZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TGZ* »_As far as a complete system that is available for purchase, would the vent to air catch can bsh offers be the best option to preventing this, or do we need to wait until somebody makes a complete pcv bypass?
I've been running on stock pcv and dv 18k miles and have not blown either one yet so I figured I would leave them as is. After seeing this thread I think I need to act now. I was planning on keeping this car a long time....

the BSH vent to atmosphere would work better then the stage 2 as nothing is getting back to the intake, but I question its smog legality. You might get lucky and they wont pop the hood on an obd2 car for your smog but if they do you might be SOL. Another solution would be to revert to stock come smog time. 
check out saabers thread on routing it the the exaust http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
I worry about long term carbon buildup in the exhaust or excessive smoke issues long term with the route to exhaust solution.


----------



## TGZ (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_IMO the only effective way to deal with this issue is to completely eliminate any crankcase evacuation gasses getting into the intake tract. This complete elimination is exactly what VW themselves say would solve the problem in their patent for the engine.


If VW says that then why did they make this pcv system in the first place? And why don't they come out with a factory fix?
Anyway you didn't answer my question. As of now the only thing on the market that will come even close to fixing this problem will be the BSH Vent to air catch cam right? Until somebody comes with a kit to change this I won't be doing it because I don't have the technical know how to even try. I'm thinking to do the BSH until something better comes on the market.


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (TGZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TGZ* »_If VW says that then why did they make this pcv system in the first place? And why don't they come out with a factory fix?

As the patent language in the link I referenced says, they said environmental requirements prevent them from doing that.


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

i think a standard catch can will work perfectly. and then just seafoam her a little bit every oil change.
how long does it usually take to take off ur intake manifold??? i really dont want to sit out in the FL sun for hours just to clean my intake valves...


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_i think a standard catch can will work perfectly. 

Really? What is that based on? Did you see the photos above showing buildup in only 2000 miles despite having audi's triple cyclonic "catch can"?


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: (saaber2)*

dude... throwing in a catch can with plenty of baffling would be great, and then seafoaming it, would be ALOT better than just using this "efficient" design already in place... so, cyclonic filter (which doesnt seem too great), a filtering catch can, then back again.... seems better than what we have now...
I would like to see a catch can that has a ton of baffling, with very thick walls of some kinda of mesh material, maybe like screen material... and then a bend that would trap all but the most minute amounts of oil.
The more objects the gas goes through, the more oil that gets separated out. And no offense, but I dont think that just having a steel wool setup will do. What happens when the wool gets soaked and the gas just picks up more oil and keeps flowing?
im gonna talk to my bro. he works on cars and fabs for trucks... ill see if he can rig me something to test out.


----------



## Benjamin T (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (Krieger)*

forge is coming out with a catch can:
















said that it might be show nat waterfest? but... no US release date.


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

catch cans to me are an crappy solution because you need to take them out ever so often to drain them. so this requires constant maintenance. also, in cold weather applications, the routing lines have frozen, completely blocking the system and causing excess crankcase pressure. 
IMO, routing the PCV directly throught the exhaust seems like the best solution so far. there is just one install, there is minimal maintenance required to keep the system functioning properly, and it is easily reversiable for smog purposes. and i wouldn't worry too much about oil build up in your exhaust leading to smoking problems.


----------



## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_ also, in cold weather applications, the routing lines have frozen, completely blocking the system and causing excess crankcase pressure. 
IMO, routing the PCV directly throught the exhaust seems like the best solution so far. there is just one install, there is minimal maintenance required to keep the system functioning properly, and it is easily reversiable for smog purposes. and i wouldn't worry too much about oil build up in your exhaust leading to smoking problems. 


I agree with some of what you said but don't understand about the freezing up. What is going through there that can freeze? Seems like it should just be petroleum based liquids. Just wondering.


----------



## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: (dmorrow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmorrow* »_I agree with some of what you said but don't understand about the freezing up. What is going through there that can freeze? Seems like it should just be petroleum based liquids. Just wondering. 


Water vapor. Ever see that brown frothy stuff on your oil cap? That's oil mixed with water.


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (dmorrow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dmorrow* »_
I agree with some of what you said but don't understand about the freezing up. What is going through there that can freeze? Seems like it should just be petroleum based liquids. Just wondering. 

during the winter months, you get a lot of condensation forming in the motor and in the catch can itself from the heating of the motor while running, then the quick cooling once left alone... you get a lot of water being trapped in the catch can and in the lines running to the can. these freeze solid, preventing the crankcase from properly venting and building too much pressure. and you eventually get blown oil caps and oil all over your motor, in addition to your car running like crap


----------



## BSH Speedshop (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: (rhouse181)*

There is a lot of talk about running the pcv into the exhaust. This is something we use on our drag cars are there is some major performance benefits from it however it is not something we recommend for any vehicle used on the street. 
The issue is the amount of vacuum that will be created with high speed exhaust gasses passing over the recirc port. At about 7" in hg there is enough vacuum created to literally pull oil out of the PCV system. You run the risk of pulling oil right out of the head, off the cams etc. This can lead to serious engine problems if it occurs when the oil level is low enough to starve the engine (typically the head) of oil. We normally top the cars up every one to two runs to ensure this issue doesnt occur. 
This is the reason why VW puts the Saucer looking thing on all of their PCV systems that have direct manifold connection. The saucer holds a diaphragm that limits the amount of vacuum applies to the pcv system. If not present, at idle the system would be exposed to 20 in hg which would lead to the issues above. 
Outside of that you are drastically increasing the amount of oil in the exhaust system which can damage the cat and create smoky oily exhaust gasses. 
Our PCV systems are connected to the intake side of the turbocharger at a 90* angle. This area will see a small amount of vacuum, tested internally to be between 1-3 in hg at full boost. This is enough for proper PCV function (even 0 will work as long as its lower pressure area) but not enough to create enough suction to pull oil out of the engine. 
While it does work, this information needs to be known to prevent any surprises.


----------



## jsharp4684 (Jun 18, 2009)

*Re: (BSH Speedshop)*

Does the stg1 BSH PCV kit prevent the sludging of the intake valves or is the Stg2 required to prevent the sludge?


----------



## BSH Speedshop (Apr 22, 2009)

*Re: (jsharp4684)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jsharp4684* »_Does the stg1 BSH PCV kit prevent the sludging of the intake valves or is the Stg2 required to prevent the sludge?

It helps a little bit as the blowby isnt directly exposed to the manifold but in no way is that the intention of the part. Thats what the catch cans are for.


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (BSH Speedshop)*

understand what you are saying... but the saucer looking thing is left in place for the proposed exhaust slash cut system so its ability to regulate vacuum to the crankcase would remain. and with the slashcut system, the bung is welded post cat, so you don't have to worry about oiling up and failing the catalyst...


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (rhouse181)*

That is excellent info on the amount of vacuum. It would be cool if a tuning company (hint, hint, ha ha) offered a complete pcv bypass to exhaust kit that maybe had the exhaust nipple built into an ATP downpipe or something (could be catless or nipple located post cat). 
I would think that something based on BSH's slick cover plate work and intake plugs for example this could be a slick setup. Then you could eliminate the deposit problem once and for all and get more power too (via DP I mean not really due to increased vacuum as this would have to be controlled). If it was done right, it could maybe kill three birds with one stone: 1) failing pcv issue, 2) permanent solution to intake deposits from PCV goo, 3) power increase from DP and it would be way less maintenance and eliminate the problems common to catch cans, including fumes into the cabin from race cans (It is no fun to have your car on "recirc" on a rainy or cold day, you have to run AC constantly just to keep up with condensation/keep windows from fogging)


_Modified by saaber2 at 1:09 PM 7-9-2009_


----------



## TGZ (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: (saaber2)*

I gotta say I would love to see a tuner make something like that.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Google Patent Search:
http://www.google.com/patents/...ngine
Original Patent:
http://www.google.com/patents?...21,M1
Quoted Text:
"Gasoline engines with direct injection of the fuel into the combustion chamber, i.e., not into the intake port, suffer especially from the problem of the formation of carbon deposits on components. Carbon deposits form especially in the neck region of intake valves. A more exact analysis of how these carbon deposits form leads to the following result: Oil and fuel constituents first form a sticky coating on the components. These constituents are chiefly long-chain and branched-chain hydrocarbons, i.e., the low-volatility components of oil and fuel. Aromatic compounds adhere especially well. This sticky base coating serves as a base for the deposition of soot particles. This results in a porous surface, in which oil and fuel particles in turn become embedded. This process is a circular process, by which the coating thickness of the carbon deposits continuously increases. Especially in the area of the intake valves, the deposits originate from blowby gases and from internal and external exhaust gas recirculation, and in this process, the blowby gasses and the recirculated exhaust gas come into direct contact with the intake valve."
"Especially in the area of the neck of the intake valves, excessive carbon deposits have extremely negative effects for the following reasons: In the case of Otto direct injectors, the successful ignition of the stratified charge depends to a great extent on the correct development of the internal cylinder flow, which ensures reliable transport of the injected fuel to the spark plug to guarantee reliable ignition at the spark plug. However, a coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may interfere so strongly with the tumble flow that ignition failures may occur there as a result. Under certain circumstances, however, ignition failures can lead to irreversible damage of a catalytic converter installed in the exhaust gas tract for purifying the exhaust gas. Furthermore, the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve causes flow resistance, which can lead to significant performance losses due to insufficient cylinder filling, especially in the upper load and speed range of the internal combustion engine. In addition, the carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may prevent correct valve closing, which leads to compression losses and thus sporadic ignition failures. This in turn could irreversibly damage the catalytic converter. There is the potential for small particles to break away from the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve and get into the catalytic converter. These hot particles may then cause secondary reaction and corresponding local damage of the catalytic converter. For example, a hole may be burned in the structure of the catalytic converter."
"Globular deposits are found especially on the valve stem downstream from a partition plate in the intake port. Due to the dripping of high-boiling hydrocarbons from the partition plate towards the valve neck or valve stem, globular carbon deposits eventually form there by the sequence of events explained above. These deposits on the valve stem can result in flow deficits due to undesired swirling and turbulent flow around the globular carbon deposits. This may persistently interfere with the formation of stable tumble flow from cycle to cycle."
"A possible solution would be to keep these sources of deposits away, for example, from the intake valve, by completely eliminating exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port. However with the combustion behavior of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines, at least external exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port are absolutely necessary for reasons of emission control and fuel consumption, so that this approach is not possible. "


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

This patent info. was originally found by Rl_RS4 and qouted on BITOG and copied into my bypass to exhaust post. 
Just want to make sure Rl_RS4 gets credit for the massive amount of work he has done to identify this problem on audi, vw, and now Porsche DI engines. But definitely we need to keep posting this so that everyone is educated on the problem ASAP. Thanks for posting it.


_Modified by saaber2 at 2:43 PM 7-9-2009_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_This patent info. was originally found by Rl_RS4 and qouted on BITOG and copied into my bypass to exhaust post. 
Just want to make sure Rl_RS4 gets credit for the massive amount of work he has done to identify this problem on audi, vw, and now Porsche DI engines. But definitely we need to keep posting this so that everyone is educated on the problem ASAP. Thanks for posting it.

_Modified by saaber2 at 2:43 PM 7-9-2009_









The Lubrizol patent is interesting as well.


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_








The Lubrizol patent is interesting as well.

Definitely, even oil companies are starting to use VW/audi FSI-specific valve deposit language in their marketing. This from RL_RS4 on Bitog referring to Havoline Ultra V 5W30 marketing sheet:
"This next-generation engineering also offers excellent thermal stability, maximising keep clean engine performance and oxidation resistance under the most severe high temperature driving conditions and minimises harmful intake valve deposits in direct injection systems (FSI) on VW and Audi gasoline power units."
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...art=1


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*

well, cant we put the race catch can further away from the engine and maybe have a funnel with a filter that moves it somewhere neat an opening so that the fumes never reach into the cabin???
the gas can still evacuate, the oil can still drawn away from it, and i can still use my A/C normally without dying....


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Krieger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Krieger* »_well, cant we put the race catch can further away from the engine and maybe have a funnel with a filter that moves it somewhere neat an opening so that the fumes never reach into the cabin???
the gas can still evacuate, the oil can still drawn away from it, and i can still use my A/C normally without dying....

I dont see why you can put a hose on the race style can where the filter would normally go then reroute the hose to a better location and attach the breather filter. 
have you seen sabber's exhaust routing setup? thats a better soultion IMHO


----------



## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

105k w/o catchcan, running w/m injection part time, seafoamed once around 40-50k, bg induction cleaner aroung 80-90k...








I guess W/M FTMFW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (2pt0tee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2pt0tee* »_105k w/o catchcan, running w/m injection part time, seafoamed once around 40-50k, bg induction cleaner aroung 80-90k...
I guess W/M FTMFW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That is fantastic that your valves look that good. However the valves below at 28k had both meth and a catch can. 
So definitely meth helps but doesn't solve the problem, The more preventative measures you use the better IMO (unless you completely eliminate the problem through a bypass to exhaust, downtube, or race can of course and then they are not needed).








From this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4468026

_Modified by saaber2 at 7:55 PM 8-12-2009_


----------



## 2pt0tee (Apr 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_That is fantastic that your valves look that good. However the valves below at 28k had both meth and a catch can!


Those valves don't look that bad. Looks similar to mine at 105k. So maybe the w/m is helping to prevent it from getting to the point it did on iGen3's motor....


----------



## sile031 (Feb 1, 2010)

*Re: (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_just got tired of the continuous misfires at idle. car runs great otherwise, oh, original DV blew a few months ago has been pssssing boost, replaced that today too and got my FAST back....






















note seafoam/lubromoly didn't make a dent in this stuff. It cleaned #2 and #3 valves themselves a bit, but not the ports. more photos later. 

I get misfires on my cilinder #1 that should be the same proble?? btw I have only 30 000km!!


_Modified by sile031 at 5:28 AM 2-8-2010_


----------



## ssunnylee24 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: (sile031)*

I've got misfire on cylinder 2,3,4 and random misfires.
Also brought it to the dealership and they are saying something about cleaning intake deposits for 200$ and I don't think they are going to take the intake manifold off to cleaning by hands.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

21k with water meth. Did a full teardown and scrubbed clean last Feb of 2009.
Dave


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
























21k with water meth. Did a full teardown and scrubbed clean last Feb of 2009.
Dave

Do you guys let your cars idle for any length of time, or do you get in & drive? I get in & drive & I've been running a catch can for about 6K miles now currently @ 30K miles. Car runs good, I've only added seafoam to the gas tank. Nect go around I'll do the vaccuum line @ idle method & pollute my neighborhood


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_
Do you guys let your cars idle for any length of time, or do you get in & drive? I get in & drive & I've been running a catch can for about 6K miles now currently @ 30K miles. Car runs good, I've only added seafoam to the gas tank. Nect go around I'll do the vaccuum line @ idle method & pollute my neighborhood









I don't idle more than 20-30 seconds after I start the car. Pretty much get up and go. The majority of my drives are at least 10 miles + if not more. 
I even have doubts as to the effectiveness of seafoam. 
Dave


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (crew219)*

That's a much needed example of the effect meth has on valve deposits. It seemed to me on that other example above that meth helped a little but not enough. Probably could say the same thing here. And probably could say the same thing for seafoam or other options that treat the symptoms rather than the core of the problem but we really don't have any good photos of the seafoam treatment effects that I have seen (I mean valve pictures, not smoke from tailpipe) : ) 
I'm of the camp that the only effective way to deal with the valve deposits is to completely eliminate any return of pcv gases to the intake tract (anywhere in the intake tract). But I totally understand the folks who don't share that philosophy and want to try other means. The more info. we have the better choices we can make. Thanks for posting these excellent pics!


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (saaber2)*

What if you mixed fuel injection cleaner in with your meth & sprayed that?


----------

