# Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

I'm curious as to how many people have received this code. And which chip, if any, they were using. 
It seems to be common, if not exclusive, with APR on AWP ECU's so I wanted to do a little research.
If you found a way to clear this error please post. (beyond buying a new ECU) I have heard of two common methods, 1) Charging the battery (low voltage may trigger this code) 2) Taking the positve and negative battery connection terminals and touching them together to reset modules in the car that may retain errors.
My error was triggered along with a 17608 DTC for my DV being too tight and causing fluttering. I cleared the codes loosen my DV spring, but the 16985 DTC remained. Mine is an APR AWP.



_Modified by judoGTI at 7:01 PM 6-30-2003_


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## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

Go APR.


_Modified by SmokinDub at 9:00 PM 4-21-2004_


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*

APR AWP, currently sent my ECU to APR for examination.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SmokinDub* »_APR AWP, I get that code all the time.

Are you able to clear it? Or is it permanently embedded onto your ECU?


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## medium cool (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

I've had this code and am inclined to believe (technical VW sources) that aftermarket DV's are sometimes responsible for checksum problems. I reinstalled the OEM Bosch DV and so far, so good. I wouldn't immediately blame APR because there are thousands of their modules in service. Since Bosch ECM failures are not uncommon, it's possible that certain files might aggravate a borderline ECN. Perhaps an APR rep. might comment...
A more comprehensive poll might also inquire about what DV's were in service and when installed relative to the chip. Your dealer should replace the ECM under warranty if you can dodge the chip issue. You do have the ability (options) to return to stock and lock out inquiring minds, yes?


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (medium cool)*

APR AWP (03 LP), Baileys DV, N75H
No such error codes regarding checksum.
For the record, I only get MAF signal too high error codes (probably due to CAI and Samco/Forge TIP) once in a blue moon.


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## Staley (Mar 6, 1999)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

If you get that code.. then you need a new ECU.
the Diverter valve has sbsolutely NOTHING to do with it.
Later,
Mike


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Staley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Staley* »_If you get that code.. then you need a new ECU.
the Diverter valve has sbsolutely NOTHING to do with it.
Later,
Mike

Excellent - any suggestions on how to get this done on a chipped ECU?


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (medium cool)*

Don't get me wrong, Im not pointing my finger to APR. IT could just as well be an irregularity in the AWP software and have n othing to do with APR. I'm just doing some research. I would of have a more comprehensive poll but you are only allowed 10 choices







I'm sure if people have the code they will chime in.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Staley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Staley* »_If you get that code.. then you need a new ECU.
the Diverter valve has sbsolutely NOTHING to do with it.
Later,
Mike

Well I was tinkering with my DV and it triggered it. And the guy above said that he 'heard' aftermarket DVs can lead to it. Again, this proves nothing but it is interesting.
There is another thread where people were able to clear this code. Which is really odd. 
The only thing that really puzzles me (being an employed programmer) is the time in which it came up on my ECU. I've been chipped with APR for over a year. I have run a Forge DV for a year, TT DV for several months, and I'm trying a GReddy again for the second time. It was when I was adjusting the spring tension screw on the GReddy (too tight and caused flutter) that the 17608 DTC came up with the 16985. It looks as if their may be a bug in the software somewhere that when the DV has problems on an AWP ECU that it may trigger this DTC too. Or it may have something to do with APR, AWP and a DV issue that causes it to come up. Bottom line is it strikes me as really odd that an ECU would all of a sudden fail in this manner. AND still have the car fully functional.
Too many coincidences to me is all, so I want to look into a possible solution or cause to be avoided in the future before I shell out money for a new ECU.


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## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
Are you able to clear it? Or is it permanently embedded onto your ECU? 

I can clear it, but it comes back all the time. I got the 3 program model(100, 91, stock). I always thought the code was from the chip holding more programs than the VW code was looking for. Never had any problems from this DTC. I think the dealer noticed it when I went to get my coilpacks changed. They told me they would order me a new ECU, but I didnt ask why








EDIT: running a stock DV, dont know why that should matter


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

I have a long story behind mine.
I got chipped in late September 2001. Everything was fine, never had a problem. 
Fast forward 1 year (September 2002) and I'm getting this very strange problems. My ECU is randomly switching from 93 octane mode to stock, it was very strange. I hooked my car up to a VAG and got...
*16988 Internal Contr.Module Random Access Memory (RAM) Error
*
So I brought the car back to the tune shop that installed my APR chip. They contacted APR and replaced my chip. The car ran fine, with an occasional misfire.
Fast forward April 2003 I get a CEL again. I hook my car up to a VAG, notice this 16985 error and a random misfire code. I emailed APR, they said it was most likely a bad ECU. My car ran fine other than this code. I clear it and it immediately comes back.
I purchase a used HS box from someone on the vortex and decide that I'm just going to get the new box chipped and call the old box a loss. I don't want to go though my dealership, since up to now they have been really nice and I'm not sure how they would react if they knew I was chipped. 
I've been running my car up till now with the old ECU, with a CEL for almost 3 months. I bring my car back to the tune shop to have the ECU replaced and APR chip transferred.
The tech at the shop is familiar with my problems, he said he's seen this happen about 3 times before. He hooks up the new stock ECU to my car and there are no codes, so he give both ECU's to the person who modifies them.
They remove the APR chip from the problem ECU, can't seem to get it in the NEW ECU so they burn a BRAND NEW APR chip. Put the new ECU with the NEW chip in my car and the 16985 code returns. Put the problem ECU (now with the stock chip) back in my car and 16985 DTC appears.
The tech doesn't know what to do, so they decide that they will send my ECU to APR to see if they can figure out what's wrong.
So, here are some facts...
> Chip replaced in Summer 2002, car ran fine for 1 year
> April 2003 16985 appears
> June 2003 buy used HS box
> June 2003 NEW HS box hooked up to car NO CODES
> June 2003 NEW HS box chipped with APR chip
> June 2003 NEW HS box with new chip returns 16985 DTC
> BOTH ECU's RETURN 16985
I'm waiting to hear back from APR, I really hope this gets resolved. Could I have gotten 2 bad ECU's, I think it's possible, however they TECH told me that when he hooked the NEW ECU up to my car it didn't return the 16985 DTC and as soon as it was chipped it did.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (medium cool)*

Oh and I've been running a Forge 007 since 1500 miles, my car now has 26,000 miles. The only mods I have besides being chipped are Forger 007, TT downpipe and Milltek cat-back.


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## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

I wonder if this is all a result of some crafty programmer at Bosch deciding he didnt like people chipping his ECUs.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SlvrBllt)*

This is what I heard from Jeremy @ APR, and my letter to him below that:

_Quote »_Brian, This error that you received is related to the actual ECU itself, not
the chip or programming. It relates to a faulty unit rather than a faulty
chip. It is likely that the ECU will need to be replaced. You are welcome
to send the ECU to us for a check-up but it is doubtful that we will be able
to fix the issue. Of course it is impossible to know until we see the ECU.
I hope this info helps. Please let me know if I may be of any further
assistance. Thanks. 



_Quote »_Hello APR -
I've spent a good part of my weekend trying to clear this code from my 2002
VW GTI 1.8T
16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error
35-00 - -
I received it at the same time I received this DTC below. I was tuning my
GReddy Type-S BOV (running it in recirculation mode, back into the intake)
but had it too tight and it produced a little flutter and gave me the DTC
below.
17608 - Turbocharger Bypass Valve (N249): Mechanical Malfunction
35-10 - - - Intermittent
I loosened the spring adjuster on the BOV/DV and cleared the error, but the
first error would not go away. I have read a bit on VWVortex and it seems
this is a semi-common error on APR chips. However it seems a remedy is
still undetermined.
To let you know what I did to try and clear the code is: First with my
VAG-COM I cleared the codes. DTC 17608 cleared successfully, 16985 did not.
I then bought a battery charger and charged the battery thinking low
voltage may have triggered this DTC. The battery displayed being fully
charged but I left it on slow trickle (2 amps for 8 hrs). I then
disconnected both the positive and negative terminals from the battery and
touched them together (hoping to reset all modules that could not be reset
with VAG-COM). Reconnected terminals, used VAG-COM again to clear the code.
Then I started my car. I let it idle until warm took a small test drive
and reconnected my VAG-COM. The code remained.
Do you have another other suggestions or have you found a solution to this
issue? I very highly doubt the ECU is bad, and I do not get a CEL or a MIL
on the dash (the first time I did however). And the car appears to be
functioning normally, but it is still a significant concern for me to have
the DTC on my ECU.
I would like to send you my ECU, but this is my daily driver so I cannot do
that for another month or so until my vacation from work where I won't need
it everyday. I have also read that many on Vortex have done so and the ECU
checks out fine, so I do not think sending it would prove fruitful. Short
of buying a new ECU I would like to resolve this issue. Please let me know
if I can be of ANY assistance, because my stakes are now vested as well.
Here is some back ground information for you, if it helps. The car was
purchased in Dec. 2001, chipped with APR 91 octane in March or April of 2002
(I believe version 1.1?) No problems that couldn't be cleared either with
VAG-COM or part replacement since.
Thanks, I look forward to hearing your response.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

After doing some searching around and logging, looks like this problem (16985) is a little more common that I thought. Here is a list of vortex users that have experienced this problem...
edison29	2002 AWP APR Chipped
halchka99	2002 AWP APR Chipped
Papasuki	2002 AWP APR Chipped
sjoback 2002 AWP APR Chipped
judoGTI 2002 AWP APR Chipped
got_boost	2002 AWP APR Chipped
douknownam	2002 AWP APR Chipped
PH3ON1X 2002 AWP APR Chipped
Pannikattk	2002 AWP APR Chipped
Nefarious1.8t	2002 AWP APR Chipped
SmokinDub	2002 AWP APR Chipped
medium cool	2002 AWP APR Chipped
References:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=904306
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=754204



_Modified by papasuki at 4:39 PM 7-2-2003_


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## sjoback (Feb 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

now, are all of us with this problem ones who have multiple program slots? just curious.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (sjoback)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sjoback* »_now, are all of us with this problem ones who have multiple program slots? just curious.

I have two; stock and 91 octane.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (sjoback)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sjoback* »_now, are all of us with this problem ones who have multiple program slots? just curious.

From what I remember, most were. I have 93 oct and stock.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

More info please.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

bump


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

Here is some more info...
User: Lucid 
Car: 2002 S4
Vendor: APR
Link: http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1270439.phtml
User: 1bmf
Car: unsure
Vendor: APR
lLink: http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1273225.phtml
User: 02s4fun
Car: unsure
Vendor: APR
Link: http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1170830.phtml
User: eMKay
Car: 89 Audi 80 quattro
Vendor: Wetterauer
Link: http://forums.audiworld.com/a4/msgs/547849.phtml
User: used2bmcouper-nowa6r
Car: 02 2.7T
Vendor: APR
Link: http://forums.audiworld.com/s4/msgs/1266216.phtml
User: Jason Peters - Drumatix Productions
Car: 02 1.8T
Vendor: APR
Link: http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/...12146



_Modified by papasuki at 5:37 PM 7-2-2003_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

Wow a whole lot of APR chips...








I did see a post saying that they flashed and upgraded to Version 2 and theirs went away. That's my last hope before I switch to GIAC (x chip being 1.2 bar is looking really tasty).


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

VW is pointing to APR,
APR is pointing to VW,
.
I'm pointing to my wallet,
and my wallet is laughing at me...


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (sjoback)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sjoback* »_now, are all of us with this problem ones who have multiple program slots? just curious.

hi,my name is Steve and i have been a DTC:16985 victim for the last 3.5 months and still havent kicked the bug yet








as far as programs go,i have 3 (stock,93,and 100)


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## f00led (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (got_boost)*

The EEPROM on the ECM is only good for 10,000 writes (last time I checked) I am wondering if you guys switch modes often? I am not sure if APR writes to the EEPROM on the ECM or to it's own internal EEPROM on their daughter card.
If a write fails, you will start getting this error. So it is technically true that the ECM is causing this. I doubt that you guys have caused 10,000 writes to happen though, just throwing out some information.
It could also be a programming error on APR's part involving checksums since this appears to be only caused by APR chips, but APR is the only chip that's been around a long time with different programs in it. I wouldn't be surprised if Revo people eventually start hitting this as well.
EDIT: I'm waiting for APR Digital Port Programming so I don't have to even bring soldering skills into the equation. If the solder gets too hot or an act of god happens when the ECM write happens and a bit is sent to the wrong pin, it could potentially cause this. ECM's can get hot, and I guess depending the soldering job could cause this. It's always better to have machined solderings rather than user made ones.


_Modified by f00led at 9:14 AM 7-3-2003_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (f00led)*

I think their digital port programmer still needs a chip soldered to the board, but after that its all done through the OBDII port.
Nonetheless after this experience I will not be using APR again, unless flashing and going to ver2 fixes this.


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (f00led)*

I just purchased a chipped ecu (for a spare) which apparently has this code, but the car runs fine. Is this normally the case? I have yet to put it into my car. After reading this, I'm afraid I might be looking at some problems. If it runs great but gives this code, no big deal, the dealership won't see this ECU anyways.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (LeChefJosh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LeChefJosh* »_I just purchased a chipped ecu (for a spare) which apparently has this code, but the car runs fine. Is this normally the case? I have yet to put it into my car. After reading this, I'm afraid I might be looking at some problems. If it runs great but gives this code, no big deal, the dealership won't see this ECU anyways.

I think it depends on what caused the checksum error. It is definitely doing something wrong in the code. But whether this has a performance or reliabilty impact is still being determined. One user found he lost 40 mpg per tank, but more boost. It definitely sounds like a progamming error somewhere. 
How many EEPROM writes occur each time a switch in the programs occurs? is it a 1 to 1 relation? or a 1 to many?


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (LeChefJosh)*

Do you know what year car the chipped ECU is coming from? 2002? Also, what chip does it have and what programs?


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

well add me to the list, just got that code along with a few misfires..anyways my car still runs fine. I got apr with 91 & stock modes if that helps. oh yeah 02 AWP built in feb 02.. i dunno if that helps










_Modified by b0mbasaur at 6:56 PM 7-3-2003_


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## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

I just scanned a fellow vortexer's car yesterday, AWP, APR.
Same DTC too.
I never had this code when I had my APR chip tho.


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## LeChefJosh (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_Do you know what year car the chipped ECU is coming from? 2002? Also, what chip does it have and what programs?

Mine is coming from a 2002. It is a HS ecu, which apparently can be swapped for my LP ecu I currently have in my 2003. It has the APR 91 program on it, and that is it as far as I know.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Pannikattk)*

Everyone please contact APR about this issue. It is very obvious that it is definitely pointing in that direction. When you do please mention your ECU code and engine type. Thanks! Post here what they tell you.


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

i did call them when i got the code and found out it _ *could* _ be a chip related problem and basically they told me the same as everyone else,they need to have the ECU in shop to test and check solder points.most likely it will be a bad ECU and they would charge $50 to change the chip each time







almost sounds like a marketing scheme for an extra 100 on top of the 500+ i already paid for the chip.
maybe its time to dump APR and go Upsolute or Giac


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## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (got_boost)*

Well, there is one way to see if the chip is truly at fault.
When you had the APR chip installed, the installer should have given you back your stock chip. Try to work out a deal with the installer, see if they will install the stock chip back and see if the DTC never comes back. It is obvious that this code comes back very quickly once cleared, so talk to your installers. If an "APR authorized Installer" sees that the APR chip is at fault, then you guys may be able to get something out of APR.
Talk to your installers and work out a deal. I dont think this is a VW issue with ECU's...


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (new 337)*

well considering the shop that installed my chip fell off the face of the earth for awhile, adrenalin, that was out of the question.not to mention they never gave me my oem chip,i dont remember anyone that day getting their oem chips now that i think about it








and just like others,this is my daily driver so i cant afford to lose the car for a few days while it gets sent out for checking.maybe ill find time to drive out to a dealer,both of which are about 2 hrs. in either direction


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

i meant to ask this earlier but i forgot, is it ok to drive the car around still? my idle and power still feel the same.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (new 337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *new 337* »_Well, there is one way to see if the chip is truly at fault.
When you had the APR chip installed, the installer should have given you back your stock chip. Try to work out a deal with the installer, see if they will install the stock chip back and see if the DTC never comes back. It is obvious that this code comes back very quickly once cleared, so talk to your installers. If an "APR authorized Installer" sees that the APR chip is at fault, then you guys may be able to get something out of APR.
Talk to your installers and work out a deal. I dont think this is a VW issue with ECU's...

Well that concept may not work, because the APR chip could cause this code, but the code is stored else where on the ECU. Since this code cannot be erased once it's stored it's permanent, no matter which chip is in there (APR or stock) after the DTC is stored. 
That is the big problem with this whole deal and because of that I'm sure APR doesn't want to shell out $400 bucks for everyone that gets this DTC on their ECU.


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (b0mbasaur)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b0mbasaur* »_i meant to ask this earlier but i forgot, is it ok to drive the car around still? my idle and power still feel the same.

yes you can,i have been driving with the code now for about 4 months and still going.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (got_boost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *got_boost* »_
yes you can,i have been driving with the code now for about 4 months and still going.

same here.


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## Staley (Mar 6, 1999)

The HS ECU is high failure.. just call any knowledgable VW dealer and ask them.
I have replaced several HS boxes. 
Replace it with the LP ECU and it shouldn't happen again.
Volkswagen updated that ECU for several reasons..
1. cold start issues 
and
2. failure prone problems.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: (Staley)*

Have any of the bad ECU's you've replaced give a 16985 DTC? Were they stock?


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (Staley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Staley* »_The HS ECU is high failure.. just call any knowledgable VW dealer and ask them.
I have replaced several HS boxes. 
Replace it with the LP ECU and it shouldn't happen again.
Volkswagen updated that ECU for several reasons..
1. cold start issues 
and
2. failure prone problems.


That sounds good'n easy but who'll cover the cost of the new ECU?
Even if under warranty, I'm sure alot of ppl who are chipped are kinda scared to go to dealership with such a code and have them suspect and find a chip for fear of losing their powertrain warranty. They def won't let you off easily and just replace the ECU.


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## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: (dknl)*

I have the HS ECU with almost 40k chipped miles and I have never had this code. It still seems to be specific to APR'd cars. I'm not saying its APR's fault, just that it might have something to do with APR's chip system bringing out a weakness in the HS box.


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_
That sounds good'n easy but who'll cover the cost of the new ECU?
Even if under warranty, I'm sure alot of ppl who are chipped are kinda scared to go to dealership with such a code and have them suspect and find a chip for fear of losing their powertrain warranty. They def won't let you off easily and just replace the ECU.

Thats the exact situation i'm in right now. I have an appointment this wednesday, but i'm not sure yet if i want to go in. Are there any possible suggestions you guys have? it is possible to get the stock chip put back on?


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (b0mbasaur)*

Nope you are SOL. Start saving for a new ECU...


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_Nope you are SOL. Start saving for a new ECU...

Great







...where is the easiest/cheapest place to get a new ECU? I have an HS ECU and from what i heard the LP ones work correct? anyways, as i save for the new ECU it should be ok to drive around with this ecu right?i don't want it just crapping out on me.


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (got_boost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *got_boost* »_
yes you can,i have been driving with the code now for about 4 months and still going.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (b0mbasaur)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b0mbasaur* »_
Great







...where is the easiest/cheapest place to get a new ECU? I have an HS ECU and from what i heard the LP ones work correct? anyways, as i save for the new ECU it should be ok to drive around with this ecu right?i don't want it just crapping out on me.

No one really knows what is causing the error just yet. There definitely is something not operating within nominal levels in the ECU/car, but whether it causes damage or not we do not know yet. 
A new ECU will be about $400 new, I'm not sure about the LP vs HS ECU. The dealer told me LP ECU's are for the 150 hp engine, but have read differently on here. Flip a coin and let us know.


----------



## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re:*

So, 13 people have seen this message, all with APR chips, all AWP, hrm.. Not one stock, hrm.. 
If this problem is so common with stock AWPs, why is it that not one person with a stock ECU has come forward claiming they've had this problem? 
Maybe everyone who uses this forum is chipped. Maybe there are a lot more people with this DTC and they don't even know it.
I'd hate to spring for a third ECU! :-(
Could it be the chip tuner? I'm curious how many with this DTC sent their ECU to APR to get chipped as oppsed to their local chip tune shop.
Anyone know if the LP ECU works in an AWP?


----------



## iboozer (Oct 13, 2001)

*Re: Re: (papasuki)*

I did a search for Checksum and it found nothing... guess I should have searched for Check Sum.
Anyways, I have been chipped for about 30k miles, and just two nights ago my engine light comes on in the dash. So I scan it with the vag-com and see this exact code. I have an 02 AWP Jetta with an APR 91octane/stock chip.
If I can't clear the code, can I at least get the engine light on the dash to turn off?
I love the way the car drives, but I think when the warranty expires in 8k miles I will get rid of it. Just too many problems.


----------



## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: (iboozer)*

I SEE CEL
























_Modified by SmokinDub at 11:12 PM 9-6-2003_


----------



## iboozer (Oct 13, 2001)

*Re: Re: (iboozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iboozer* »_If I can't clear the code, can I at least get the engine light on the dash to turn off?

Anyone? Anyone?


----------



## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Re: (iboozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iboozer* »_
Anyone? Anyone?

Well, I've cleared mine about 10 times. The DTC comes back right away, the CEL goes away for about 20 minutes, then returns.


----------



## GTI 2744 (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re:*

bump...i'm looking at the apr chip and i have an awp so i'm def interested in this


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (GTI 2744)*

why are there no chip tuners chiming in?
APR reps where r u guys?
Just gonna leave us hanging?


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (iboozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iboozer* »_
If I can't clear the code, can I at least get the engine light on the dash to turn off?


Nope, you'll have that until you get a new ECU.


----------



## iboozer (Oct 13, 2001)

*Re: Re: (judoGTI)*

This is quite frustrating... Should I take the car into the dealer? I assume if they replace the ECU they will replace the whole module, including chip and all, right?
I paid $800 for this chip with install, I'd hate to just throw it out the window.
It would be even worse if it doesn't get covered under warranty because of the chip...


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (iboozer)*

You have to buy a new ECU. APR will re-solder your programs etc onto your new ECU for a $50.00 charge








So you are only out $450 so far...


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_You have to buy a new ECU. APR will re-solder your programs etc onto your new ECU for a $50.00 charge








So you are only out $450 so far...









but what's the point....wait for another permanent DTC and do it all over again???
No one with stock ECU or any other chip has chimed in yet about getting the DTC. Someone mentioned that this even occurs on other chip modified ECUs and even stock....but where r these ppl?
AND WHERE R THE CHIP TUNERS??????? WHAT R U GUYS WAITING FOR?
Looks like they aren't willing to stand behind their products http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (dknl)*

Just wanted to let you guys know that it isnt specific to the apr chip like mike stahley said ecu. We also are apr dist. and ive run into this problem 4 times i belive 3 times were chipped one was not. 1 the guy had an extra hs ecu the other 3 were replaced by the dealer with lp ecu's. My guess is the reason there is no people with stock ecu having this problem arent posting here is cuz most people one here 1.8t are chipped probally more chipped then not lol. Also doesnt it tell u something when the dealer replaces these under warranty they arent replacing them with the hs box they are using the lp so im sure its an ongoing problem.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (1badtsi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1badtsi* »_Just wanted to let you guys know that it isnt specific to the apr chip like mike stahley said ecu. 

really?? 
u say more chipped ppl than not on this forum hence no one chiming in unchipped but ......
wondering y have no GIAC chipped ppl seen this yet then? or any other chipped ECUs like Neuspeed.
dk


_Modified by dknl at 6:35 AM 7-11-2003_


----------



## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Re: (1badtsi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1badtsi* »_Just wanted to let you guys know that it isnt specific to the apr chip like mike stahley said ecu. We also are apr dist. and ive run into this problem 4 times i belive 3 times were chipped one was not. 1 the guy had an extra hs ecu the other 3 were replaced by the dealer with lp ecu's. My guess is the reason there is no people with stock ecu having this problem arent posting here is cuz most people one here 1.8t are chipped probally more chipped then not lol. Also doesnt it tell u something when the dealer replaces these under warranty they arent replacing them with the hs box they are using the lp so im sure its an ongoing problem.

My recently returned stock ECU is also returning the 16985 DTC, it started when the APR chip was soldered onto the board, when the stock chip was put back on the DTC remained. Are you sure 100% sure this person with the stock ECU was NEVER chipped?
I posted a message in the MK4 forum requesting info on ECU failures or general problems. No one person had seen the 16985 error on a stock ECU. There were a few that experienced some problems and mostly with AWP HS boxes. 4 people with 16985 DTC's with the APR chip (including myself), 2 cars wouldn't start due to problems, 1 guy got some DTC but he didn't know what it was and 2 voted but didn't post any info. I know this is not the most scientific way of obtaining this info, but still, I haven't seen one person come forward with the DTC on a stock car.


----------



## f00led (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Re: (papasuki)*

If you get this code totally stock, the car will not even turn on.
Many tuners in the early years learned this the hard way when calculating the proper CRC for the EEPROM image. They had to desolder the chip and try again until it worked (When you upload a bad image into the ECM via the Serial Port, it will not even communicate to a VAG-COM, or to be more correct, the wake sequence (0x01 at 5bps for the engine controller) you send to the K-Wire Pin on the OBD-II connector until you solder on a new EEPROM chip).
It's odd though, that this still happens once you guys remove your APR chip. It's also odd your ECM still works even with this code, many tuners will tell you that if the actual EEPROM image doesn't have a valid CRC the car will not start or respond to any commands until a new EEPROM is soldered on.
Just another reason for the tuner companies to release the very old technology of serial tuning (This is how ALL the companies developed their daughter cards that we used to all have to solder on, sadly due to pirating fears, they all stalled as long as they did). 
By using serial chipping you bypass all the on board encryption most of them employ as well as no user made solderings. Surface mounting a chip by hand is incredibly hard, and I doubt they are EVER as reliable as when the stock EEPROM is soldered by a machine directly on to the board.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (f00led)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f00led* »_If you get this code totally stock, the car will not even turn on.


This is what is interesting to me. This is a serious DTC to receive. However most of the APR people who have received it are still driving their car with no obvious or apparent ill affect. 
This tells me two things, either A) There is a bug and our cars SHOULDN'T be starting and we are causing damage. or B) This is a false code and shouldn't be thrown but due to a bug in the software it was triggered some how.
Either way something just doesn't seem right about it...


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (judoGTI)*

APR.... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
great support from those fellas








all these posts about new software and new programming capabilities yet they don't even aknowledge this post???








SOL I guess once they have your money


----------



## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (f00led)*

im not asking this in spite im curious how do u know the car wont even start if you get this code on a stock ecu? We had one with the code and the car was never chipped. Also if it solely the fault of the APR chip like so many are saying why would the dealer be replacing them with lp ecu rather then the hs again? we actually have a good relationship with our dealer across town and have been told by them that there are problems with the hs ecu. Also surface mounting the voklswagen chips would still be easier then the module and way easier then giac's crazy contraption that hangs the chip of the row of pins that need soldered


----------



## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (1badtsi)*

also... if apr is using the identical chip on other ecu platforms and they aren't failing... how are you blaming apr... you guys need to learn how to trouble shoot..... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Re: (turbovw18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbovw18* »_you guys need to learn how to trouble shoot..... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Dude, this is the 2nd time you have said this. What would you like to troubleshoot specifically? People have put the stock chip back on, and have already gotten the code? Rumor has it once this code is stored, it is there for its life.
Since you are the grandmaster of troubleshooting, enlighten everyone the correct way. The facts are facts. ONLY APR CHIPPED PEOPLE ARE SEEING THIS. Is it a flaw with the HS, maybe. But why arent there GIAC/REVO/Upsolute/Neuspeed people getting this too.
Enlighten us instead of being just a jackass -"Learn how to troubleshoot..."


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (turbovw18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbovw18* »_also... if apr is using the identical chip on other ecu platforms and they aren't failing... how are you blaming apr... you guys need to learn how to trouble shoot..... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

funny APR chips r the only ones with this so far...
AND THAT IS WHAT WE ARE SAYING : 
(again so you can follow) APR CHIP AND HS ECU DON'T MIX and figure MOST LIKELY DUE TO CHIP becuz no stock or giac has had this with HS ECU.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (new 337)*


----------



## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (dknl)*

the simple fact that the chip is used in numerous ECU's is the breaker... so if the HS sucks and the chip throws that code... how can you blame the chip... when it works properly on other ECU's... as far as other chips throwing this code on this ECU... i don't know... but how do you know that the HS ECU isn't the hardest one to stay out of limp on a UP or GIAC....
regardless... i did say it twice... once when drkl flamed the APR post with a link to this ... and on here. 
i'm apr chipped on the HS ecu and i dont' have the code.... so what of it... do i have a bad chip and a bad ecu to equal out good...








doesn't seem like there is enough evidence for you guys to cross post banter ... just My Opinion... thanks


----------



## new 337 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Re: (turbovw18)*

Dude, you completely ignored the question and reasoning of you posted earlier.
Troubleshooting? What do you want everyone to do since everyone is not doing it correctly? Like I said, there may be a flaw with the HS ecu, but that does not mean that it is at fault. It might not be as stable or reliable, but until other chip users start showing the same code, and even stock ecu's, I will say it, there is a problem with the software and the HS code. Maybe it needs a little extra to keep happy, I dont know, but you cant ignore facts bro.
So, to re-iterate, how does one troubleshoot successfully?


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (turbovw18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbovw18* »_as far as other chips throwing this code on this ECU... i don't know... 








that's the smartest thing you've said
so using your logic:
APR chip across different ECU platforms yields only HS as the faulty 1 so HS is at fault
therefor IS IT SAFE TO SAY:
HS ECUs across different chipped ECU platforms now only APR throws code SO APR is at fault
troubleshooting king u !!
















_Modified by dknl at 1:17 PM 7-11-2003_


_Modified by dknl at 1:27 PM 7-11-2003_


----------



## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (dknl)*

ok ill ask again if its is the chips fault(apr) why are the dealers replacing them with an lp ecu?


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## irving (Feb 7, 2003)

*My HS Problem...*

Well, I've had one customer with an HS box that we installed REVO onto. His ECU acted up as well (got the checksum code, but his car wouldn't start after the code came up). Went to the dealer who replaced it with an LP box under warranty. We re-installed REVO and it's working fine now.
Another HS customer has been REVO'd without any problems whatsoever.
So I couldn't say for sure if there is a problem with the HS box, but the dealer didn't even hesitate on the warranty and even told the customer he installed an LP box which would cure his problems. Also, this customer had his coil pack update done while the other one (the REVO that worked) didn't.


----------



## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: My HS Problem... (irving)*

Thank you irving finally someone else who is reading what im saying


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## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_







that's the smartest thing you've said
so using your logic:
APR chip across different ECU platforms yields only HS as the faulty 1 so HS is at fault
therefor IS IT SAFE TO SAY:
HS ECUs across different chipped ECU platforms now only APR throws code SO APR is at fault


you logic does not yeild one answer. read what you wrote. you are blaming APR and blaming the ECU....
the conclusion is that there have been cases with other chips... BUT REGARDLESS the same APR software that is used for the HS is the same as the software for the replacement ecu WHICH DOES NOT throw the code.
thus the HS ecu was the problem.









edit: 1badtsi ... i saw what you were sayin http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by turbovw18 at 9:07 PM 7-11-2003_


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## Mk418TDUB (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Re: (new 337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *new 337* »_ONLY APR CHIPPED PEOPLE ARE SEEING THIS. Is it a flaw with the HS, maybe. But why arent there GIAC/REVO/Upsolute/Neuspeed people getting this too.

















Maybe you should enlighten us on where you get your facts from....I know 2 GIAC and 2 WETT chip owners that have this error!!!!


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## f00led (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Re: (1badtsi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1badtsi* »_im not asking this in spite im curious how do u know the car wont even start if you get this code on a stock ecu?

Because I've read the ECM specifications and written code to interface with it. The only reason the ECM has CRC's is to make sure the instructions in the EEPROM are valid. Can you see the scenario where Johnny starts up his car and the engine instantly requests 1bar of boost at idle? or 100 degress of advanced timing at idle? This is why the ECM doesn't execute non-trust/bad code (IE: The CRC doesn't match, resulting in that code). I am not sure if it's a non-vital controller throwing that code or if it's the engine controller. I know for a fact that if the engine controller throws that code, the ECM will not respond to any commands and will not start.
This is also why each byte sent to the ECM is sent back a complimentary byte (XOR'd) to show the sender that the data being sent was received correctly.


_Modified by f00led at 7:26 PM 7-11-2003_


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Re: (Mk418TDUB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk418TDUB* »_















Maybe you should enlighten us on where you get your facts from....I know 2 GIAC and 2 WETT chip owners that have this error!!!!


Wow, and I know 20 APR chips that have thrown this DTC on this forum.


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## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (f00led)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f00led* »_
Because I've read the ECM specifications and written code to interface with it. The only reason the ECM has CRC's is to make sure the instructions in the EEPROM are valid. Can you see the scenario where Johnny starts up his car and the engine instantly requests 1bar of boost at idle? or 100 degress of advanced timing at idle? This is why the ECM doesn't execute non-trust/bad code (IE: The CRC doesn't match, resulting in that code). I am not sure if it's a non-vital controller throwing that code or if it's the engine controller. I know for a fact that if the engine controller throws that code, the ECM will not respond to any commands and will not start.
This is also why each byte sent to the ECM is sent back a complimentary byte (XOR'd) to show the sender that the data being sent was received correctly.

_Modified by f00led at 7:26 PM 7-11-2003_

umm ive seen one that wasnt chipped and threw the code and still ran. if ur theory is right why would the chipped car run then?


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## f00led (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Re: (1badtsi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1badtsi* »_
umm ive seen one that wasnt chipped and threw the code and still ran. if ur theory is right why would the chipped car run then?

There are multiple controllers on the ECM, each has it's own memory segment. If the CRC doesn't fail in the Engine Controllers memory segment, you might throw this error and still be able to start the car.
I know if the CRC error is in the engine controller, you won't be able to start the car.
IE: The controller for the radio has an invalid CRC, the radio would most likely still work, but you'd still throw that code everytime the radio controller was accessed. Since the radio controller is not deeemed something that could do damage to you or the car, the car starts.


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## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (f00led)*

so you are agreein that it can throw the code and th car still runs right?


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## f00led (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Re: (1badtsi)*

Yes, depending on where the CRC corruption lives.
Obviously if people are having hitting this code and having their cars still work it proves it.
The ECM image has code in it that executes when a bad CRC is found. Depending on what controller it is, the ECM responds to bad CRC differently. I didn't program the stock ECM image, so don't ask me how it handles everything. 
I do know that the engine controller resets the ECM each time a bad CRC is found and won't respond to any commands.
If you don't understand how the Bosch Motronic ECM works, all of this isn't going to make much sense to you. 
It isn't a matter of if the car runs or not, some memory in the ECM is getting corrupted. Believe it or not, it appears to happen more when APR chips are installed. Whether this be directly related to APR's chip or not is still up in the air, but we do know it happens on more APR cars than other chipped cars (going by this thread and poll).
I realize you are an APR installer, APR is a very good company. We are just trying to come to a solid answer and I have said before that after everything is said, it's still the ECM's fault, since it's the one that corrupted the memory because people hit this when they are not switching a program and they haven't recently messed with the ECM. 
It just appears APR might aggrevate the fault in the HS ECM. Obviously there was a problem with the HS ECM or else Bosch wouldn't have made an update.


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## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Re: (f00led)*

k i was just curious cuz on 2 post i belive u said the car will not start if its stock and has this code, and im not saying it is 100% not the chips fault but why would the dealer no questions asked right away replace it with an lp box? does that only sound odd to me


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (f00led)*


_Quote, originally posted by *f00led* »_Yes, depending on where the CRC corruption lives.
Obviously if people are having hitting this code and having their cars still work it proves it.
The ECM image has code in it that executes when a bad CRC is found. Depending on what controller it is, the ECM responds to bad CRC differently. I didn't program the stock ECM image, so don't ask me how it handles everything. 
I do know that the engine controller resets the ECM each time a bad CRC is found and won't respond to any commands.
If you don't understand how the Bosch Motronic ECM works, all of this isn't going to make much sense to you. 
It isn't a matter of if the car runs or not, some memory in the ECM is getting corrupted. Believe it or not, it appears to happen more when APR chips are installed. Whether this be directly related to APR's chip or not is still up in the air, but we do know it happens on more APR cars than other chipped cars (going by this thread and poll).
I realize you are an APR installer, APR is a very good company. We are just trying to come to a solid answer and I have said before that after everything is said, it's still the ECM's fault, since it's the one that corrupted the memory because people hit this when they are not switching a program and they haven't recently messed with the ECM. 
It just appears APR might aggrevate the fault in the HS ECM. Obviously there was a problem with the HS ECM or else Bosch wouldn't have made an update.

Very well said.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

Like Irving and 1badtsi have said this isn't just APR chips on the HS ECU. There have been some GIAC chips getting this too in the loca area. I spoke to Chris86 a while ago about this. I don't believe these folks spend much time here, in fact they don't post period, but it has happened. They were on AWP and the shoddy ECUs. At first I though it would be from soldering on the GIAC and APR chips or a failed flash on either encrypted board, buuuut since a REVO has had this happen it shouldn't be from any of those as REVO is all serial port. Sounds like the specific ECU itself is just ridden with sketchy behavior and this problem is just brought out when chipped.


_Modified by einsig at 2:32 AM 7-12-2003_


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## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (einsig)*

DTC 16985, as it has been described here, is occuring because of hardware issues. This is quite obvious. The failures are somewhat sporadic, they are closely tied to a specific ECU part number, and the failures can occur with the ECU in various states (stock, chipped, etc.) The failures also seem to be more likely in hot weather. This is when electronic components are most likely to get flakey. All this demonstrates quite clearly that the problem is hardware.
As has been pointed out in this thread, the 16985 error code is not erasable by running the normal fault code function (whether via VAG-COM, EMCS, or other.) We have compiled a special program to erase this error code.
To erase any doubt as to what is at fault, effective now we are implementing the following procedure to help our customers who see this error code. The first step is to send the ECU to us and we will replace the EMCS module. Next we will clear this error code (using a special program) and then reprogram the ECU. After this, if the 16985 error code reappears agaain then it can be determined with a high degree of certainty that the ECU is faulty.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_DTC 16985, as it has been described here, is occuring because of hardware issues. This is quite obvious. The failures are somewhat sporadic, they are closely tied to a specific ECU part number, and the failures can occur with the ECU in various states (stock, chipped, etc.) The failures also seem to be more likely in hot weather. This is when electronic components are most likely to get flakey. All this demonstrates quite clearly that the problem is hardware.
As has been pointed out in this thread, the 16985 error code is not erasable by running the normal fault code function (whether via VAG-COM, EMCS, or other.) We have compiled a special program to erase this error code.
To erase any doubt as to what is at fault, effective now we are implementing the following procedure to help our customers who see this error code. The first step is to send the ECU to us and we will replace the EMCS module. Next we will clear this error code (using a special program) and then reprogram the ECU. After this, if the 16985 error code reappears agaain then it can be determined with a high degree of certainty that the ECU is faulty.

'Vat kind of speecial tool is it... hmmm ?















Sounds good, I'll be on vacation 3 weeks in August, I'll send you my ECU then! Appreciate the input.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error ([email protected]PR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
To erase any doubt as to what is at fault, effective now we are implementing the following procedure to help our customers who see this error code. The first step is to send the ECU to us and we will replace the EMCS module. Next we will clear this error code (using a special program) and then reprogram the ECU. After this, if the 16985 error code reappears agaain then it can be determined with a high degree of certainty that the ECU is faulty.

Thank you Brett, that is the kind of support we expect for our 700$ chip. I'll be contacting you soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## eve16v (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SmokinDub* »_Thank you Brett, that is the kind of support we expect for our 700$ chip. I'll be contacting you soon. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

For my $700 I expect not to have problems like this. Send my ecu for god knows how long and not have my car to drive? Sorry I'll pass and buy a different chip.


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## PineappleMonkey (Mar 2, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The first step is to send the ECU to us and we will replace the EMCS module. 

With customers paying shipping?

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Next we will clear this error code (using a special program) and then reprogram the ECU. 

Special program being.....Vagcom?? 

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
After this, if the 16985 error code reappears agaain then it can be determined with a high degree of certainty that the ECU is faulty.

Oh but it cannot, must not, ever god forsaken be the programming. ECU fault yes. Must be, I see it in the force.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Re: (turbovw18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbovw18* »_
you logic does not yeild one answer. read what you wrote. you are blaming APR and blaming the ECU....


actually I am saying u blame the ECU but in using your logic you can also come up with the CHip is at fault by keeping the HS ECU as a constant while changing the chips as the variable and come up with more APR chips throwing DTC which brings you with a conclusion that APR AND HS ECU do not mix for whatever reason

as for [email protected] it is great that APR finally is prepared and listen to customers. I know it may not in fact be APRs fault but ALL I wanted was a little support in resolving the issue. 
Good customer relationship is what you guys are known for now show it!!!


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*RE:*

I just called APR. They had my ECU for a few days. Apparently they cleared the 16985 DTC with this new prgram they wrote and it does NOT come back. So, my ECU is fine. Now I have to ship the other one to them, hopefully it will also clear withough returning. I'm very happy I don't have to purchase a new ECU. Woohoo!!!


_Modified by papasuki at 4:23 PM 7-14-2003_


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: RE: (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_I just called APR. They had my ECU for a few days. Apparently they cleared the 16985 DTC with this new prgram they wrote and it does NOT come back. So, my ECU is fine. Now I have to ship the other one to them, hopefully it will also clear withough returning. I'm very happy I don't have to purchase a new ECU. Woohoo!!!

_Modified by papasuki at 4:23 PM 7-14-2003_

So they cleared the code and it hasn't come back in a few days, and this means your ECU is fine. Interesting. Not to jinx you, but if it DOES come back, post again and link to this thread.
The question begs, if the ECU is 'fine' then what causes the 'problem' ?? APR programming, APR sockets, ??
Can you get a straight answer out of them next time you call them and let us know what's up? Thanks in advance.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: RE: (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
So they cleared the code and it hasn't come back in a few days, and this means your ECU is fine. Interesting. Not to jinx you, but if it DOES come back, post again and link to this thread.
The question begs, if the ECU is 'fine' then what causes the 'problem' ?? APR programming, APR sockets, ??
Can you get a straight answer out of them next time you call them and let us know what's up? Thanks in advance.

The person I spoke with said they cleared it this weekend and it hasn't returned since. Prior to that, if I would clear it with a VAG it would immediately return. The true test is when I put the ECU in my car, I'll keep this post updated.


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: RE: (papasuki)*

i'm curious..how long does the whole process of sending APR the chip for inspection/fixing and getting it sent back take? My car's a daily driver so its difficult not having the car. TIA


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: RE: (b0mbasaur)*

Well, my ECU was sent out on the 30th. I'm not sure how long APR worked on it. I would assume it would take less time to go though this clearing process again than it did for me. I believe my ECU was the first that they did this to (although I'm not sure). 
Also, who knows, the DTC my still return. Hopefully they found out what was causing it and fixed it. Only time will tell. 



_Modified by papasuki at 5:24 PM 7-14-2003_


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## einsig (Jan 29, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (eve16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eve16v* »_
For my $700 I expect not to have problems like this. Send my ecu for god knows how long and not have my car to drive? Sorry I'll pass and buy a different chip.

Hello, McFly? It is happening on GIAC, REVO and stock boxes too. A REVO dealer even posted so on this page. It is weakness in the ECU itself. Why criticise APR for actually doing something proactice about the problem...unlike the other tuners (no offense to them) who haven't done a thing?
You people comlaing about shipping are nuts. The VW crowd needs a nice big ennema cause the "I want the best products, but cheap/free" attitude stinks. No wonder great companies like Velocity and Adrenalin went under.


_Modified by einsig at 8:00 PM 7-14-2003_


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (einsig)*

Here is an update.
So I get my ECU back today from APR. The APR rep. says that APR wrote a new program to clear the code. They couldn't find anything wrong with the ECU and that this new program cleared the DTC and the ECU was tested and the 16985 did not return. So we put the ECU in the car and hooked it up to a VAG. No code, great, so far. So we start playing with it, start the car, switch modes. BAM!!
*18048 P1640 Internal Contr.Module (EEPROM) Error *
Oh no! So I have one of the techs call APR. Basically they said, "sorry, you have a bad ECU." So now I have a bad ECU again.








I just got home, hooked my car up to my VAG and cleared the code, just to see if I can replicate what happened this afternoon. I turned off and on the security lockout, switched modes, drove it around for a bit, switched modes again. Hooked it up to a VAG and no DTC's.
Has anyone heard of such a problem? If I have a "bad ecu" wouldn't it always return a DTC??


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

Papasuki, can you clarify if you have an HS ECU?


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

yes, both the bad ECU's i've had were HS boxes.


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## RUFASTR (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

A VW tech told me that when this code appears it's an automatic replcement of the ECU. He's seen it a few times. Since the dealer must open it to know if it's chipped there's a chance they may warranty it without a hassle....right??
So if this worked will APR reprogram the new ECU?


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (RUFASTR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RUFASTR* »_A VW tech told me that when this code appears it's an automatic replcement of the ECU. He's seen it a few times. Since the dealer must open it to know if it's chipped there's a chance they may warranty it without a hassle....right??
So if this worked will APR reprogram the new ECU? 

I know your responding to me.. Are you refering to 16985 DTC or my new 18048 DTC? Also, did the tech say the cars were stock, chipped or did he/she not know.


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (einsig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *einsig* »_
A REVO dealer even posted so on this page. It is weakness in the ECU itself. 

drrrrrrr.....nevermind
i'm


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## RUFASTR (Jul 16, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_
I know your responding to me.. Are you refering to 16985 DTC or my new 18048 DTC? Also, did the tech say the cars were stock, chipped or did he/she not know.

It was the 16985 code I was referring to. I don't think it was known to him or the dealer if the cars were chipped. I'll try to find out for sure.


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

Just for reference...
I have a 2002 GTI 1.8T. I DO NOT know the ECU # yet. I have not gotten this code. Im NOT chipped. I heard awhile back that the dealer was reflashing ECUs to help revent the coil pack issues. I have about 18,000 miles on my car. I will get the ECU # tonight.


_Modified by VWGolfA4 at 5:23 PM 7-17-2003_


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## iboozer (Oct 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (VWGolfA4)*

Does anyone have any update relating to this problem?
I'm sitting at 43k miles on my 02 Jetta with this problem. I'm debating taking it to the dealer due to only 7k left on my warranty, but fear that they will either:
A. Replace my ECU and I'm out the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
B. Replace my ECU and make me pay for it due to the chip and I'm out $400+ for the ECU and the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
This car is my wifes daily driver so it is really tough for me to be without the car for a week. I guess option C is get a rental car for $200 for the week and send my ECU to APR and hope they can fix it.....


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (iboozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iboozer* »_Does anyone have any update relating to this problem?
I'm sitting at 43k miles on my 02 Jetta with this problem. I'm debating taking it to the dealer due to only 7k left on my warranty, but fear that they will either:
A. Replace my ECU and I'm out the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
B. Replace my ECU and make me pay for it due to the chip and I'm out $400+ for the ECU and the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
This car is my wifes daily driver so it is really tough for me to be without the car for a week. I guess option C is get a rental car for $200 for the week and send my ECU to APR and hope they can fix it.....


i feel you man. i'm in a similar situation. i'm hoping that atleast if they replace the ecu they don't make me pay for it because of the chip and also void my warranty. Maybe you can ask for the old ecu back if they replace it? then send that old one to apr or whoever to fix the problem. i don't know, just a thought


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## Mk418TDUB (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (iboozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iboozer* »_Does anyone have any update relating to this problem?
I'm sitting at 43k miles on my 02 Jetta with this problem. I'm debating taking it to the dealer due to only 7k left on my warranty, but fear that they will either:
A. Replace my ECU and I'm out the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
B. Replace my ECU and make me pay for it due to the chip and I'm out $400+ for the ECU and the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
This car is my wifes daily driver so it is really tough for me to be without the car for a week. I guess option C is get a rental car for $200 for the week and send my ECU to APR and hope they can fix it.....


You wont be out $800!!!! When you purchase and APR chip, you buy a certain amount of slots that can be filled with programs....In the event that the dealer replaces your ECU....Instead of admitting that you have a chip....just have them replace it!!! Chances are they wont even open the ECU up so they will never know!!!
Go back to your APR dealer or send your new ECU back to APR(whichever way you got it chipped) and tell them that the dealer replaced you ECU....All you will have to pay for is $50 for the actual CHIP itself....you are registered on the APR network and it shows how many slots you purchased....You wont have to pay for new program SLOTS.....All you will have to pay for is the CHIP!!
Understand!!! So instead of admitting you are chipped....just let tem replace it!!! All you will have to pay is $50 for the CHIP itself!!!!


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## iboozer (Oct 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Mk418TDUB)*

Wow is that really true about only paying $50 to rechip it? Would I be able to take it to the place I bought the chip to have this done... or is that only if I mail the ECU to APR?


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## Mk418TDUB (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (iboozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iboozer* »_Wow is that really true about only paying $50 to rechip it? Would I be able to take it to the place I bought the chip to have this done... or is that only if I mail the ECU to APR?

YES, it is 100% true....I was told this when I purchased my chip at NGP(my local authorized dealer)
You can either go back to where you got chipped!
*OR*
Send it back to APR
Whichever is easier for you!!


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Mk418TDUB)*

hmm this sounds very promising...i just hope they don't find out about the chip now and void my warranty.


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## illcaptive (Dec 18, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (b0mbasaur)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (illcaptive)*

CEL came on this past weekend, checked with VAG, came up with DTC: 16985. Car runs fine. Still pulls strong. have a 2002 AWP 1.8t, almost 30000 miles, about 25000 of them chipped. Never had any problems, till this. My chip has EMCS with the stock and 91 oct. Haven't taken out the ECU yet to see if i have the HS or not. Thinking of takin mine out to send to APR to clear the code and try to make it better like they offered. jus kinda waitin to see what happens.


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## sjoback (Feb 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redlands_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redlands_gti* »_CEL came on this past weekend, checked with VAG, came up with DTC: 16985. Car runs fine. Still pulls strong. have a 2002 AWP 1.8t, almost 30000 miles, about 25000 of them chipped. Never had any problems, till this. My chip has EMCS with the stock and 91 oct. Haven't taken out the ECU yet to see if i have the HS or not. Thinking of takin mine out to send to APR to clear the code and try to make it better like they offered. jus kinda waitin to see what happens.

hey your situation sounds pretty similar to mine, in terms of mileage, progs, etc. If I were you, I would try to get it replaced under warranty, and not waste your time with an APR fix. there doesn't seem to be much APR can do about it. but if your car is noticeably modified, then I guess you should go with APR.


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## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (sjoback)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sjoback* »_
hey your situation sounds pretty similar to mine, in terms of mileage, progs, etc. If I were you, I would try to get it replaced under warranty, and not waste your time with an APR fix. there doesn't seem to be much APR can do about it. but if your car is noticeably modified, then I guess you should go with APR.

i thought about that but i would still have to go to APR to have them put in the original chip so the dealer can take it in and give me a new one. i think i will wait a while and watch this post and see what happens.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redlands_gti)*

The dealer can tell if the car was chipped in the past. Once they open the ECU up they will see it, if not just by looking at the seal on the ECU casing. 
Question is, once a dealer replaces a part under warranty, can they come back to you later with a bill?


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## SteveOoooo (Jan 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (iboozer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iboozer* »_Does anyone have any update relating to this problem?
I'm sitting at 43k miles on my 02 Jetta with this problem. I'm debating taking it to the dealer due to only 7k left on my warranty, but fear that they will either:
A. Replace my ECU and I'm out the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
B. Replace my ECU and make me pay for it due to the chip and I'm out $400+ for the ECU and the $800 I spent for the APR chip.
This car is my wifes daily driver so it is really tough for me to be without the car for a week. I guess option C is get a rental car for $200 for the week and send my ECU to APR and hope they can fix it.....


Howabout this? 
You could buy a new/used ECU, stick it in there for now (or for the dealer trip), while you send the broken one back to APR for repair. Yes, you'd spend money now, but maybe you could sell it used later on, to recoup some $money.
But I wouldn't WASTE waste MY money on the other options!








Errr, umm, and couldn't you always REVO or APR DPP that spare later too!?!?


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## gtistyle20v (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

first off ill say dont get me wrong. i believe in APR.. i think they are a great company and beleive they will resolve this some how..
but wouldnt it be "STRANGE" if "ONLY" the ecu explorer is able to remove this fault code... because of its "advanced technology" over vag com.
im playing devils advocat right now ofcourse... but it is a nice way for them to quickly push out uwe. 
the whole... anti virus companies (norton) creates viruses that only norton can pick up conspiracy theory?
and why hasnt apr jumped in this thread... they are always up in ever APR envolved thread.. 
i guess the saying goes... the whales that dont surface... are the whales that dont get harpooned
late


_Modified by gtistyle20v at 4:26 PM 7-24-2003_


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## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (gtistyle20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtistyle20v* »_and why hasnt apr jumped in this thread... they are always up in ever APR envolved thread.. 
i guess the saying goes... the whales that dont surface... are the whales that dont get harpooned


Re-read pg 3...

_Quote »_ 
DTC 16985, as it has been described here, is occuring because of hardware issues. This is quite obvious. The failures are somewhat sporadic, they are closely tied to a specific ECU part number, and the failures can occur with the ECU in various states (stock, chipped, etc.) The failures also seem to be more likely in hot weather. This is when electronic components are most likely to get flakey. All this demonstrates quite clearly that the problem is hardware.
As has been pointed out in this thread, the 16985 error code is not erasable by running the normal fault code function (whether via VAG-COM, EMCS, or other.) We have compiled a special program to erase this error code.
To erase any doubt as to what is at fault, effective now we are implementing the following procedure to help our customers who see this error code. The first step is to send the ECU to us and we will replace the EMCS module. Next we will clear this error code (using a special program) and then reprogram the ECU. After this, if the 16985 error code reappears agaain then it can be determined with a high degree of certainty that the ECU is faulty.
_______
Brett
APR



Allthough I thought it was a nice idea at first, I cant be without my car for that long, and cant afford a rental. I'm taking a week off, and will be cruising by an APR dealer for an upgrade to version 2. Hope this gets rid of my damn CEL, I'll update you guys in a week.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*

I really wonder what the 'special tool' is that clears the code?
People with this DTC, scan your ABS module with VAG-COM to see if you get an error there too.
I have a ECM DTC same sum error in the the ABS module, except it is a different DTC number.


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## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

The dealer cant open the ecu, it is technically property of bosch cuz if it isnt chipped they just voided the warranty by opening and they eat the cost of replacing the ecu and also form my understanding once it is replaced they cant charge u later on when bosch finds out it was chipped and blames the dealer, ive been through this scenario a couple times and it seems to be the one instance where the customer can screw the dealership instead of vice versa, but if u have this problem i would get eh ecu replaced asap because the service manager at our local vw dealer told us they are trying to get it so the tech can open it to see if its chipped because of these problems


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## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (1badtsi)*

i think i might have APR rechip it back to stock, then go to the dealer, see what they say. hey i might get the LP ECU. i will post what happens.


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## illcaptive (Dec 18, 2001)

so did the 18048 dtc come back after you cleared it papasuki?


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## 18tNewbie (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: (illcaptive)*

I supposedly bought an extra ECU with this error, with APR's 91 octane program. With that said, I upgraded the program to the 93 octane, and put the ecu in my car, and there was nothing. Shouldn't this error not clear? 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I guess I'll see if it comes back.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (18tNewbie)*

Did you scan with VagCom? or just not see the CEL show up?


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## 18tNewbie (Nov 20, 2002)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

I'm sorry, I should have said we cleared it using a vag, and it hasn't come back yet. I'll keep you posted and re vag it in a week or so. But still, shouldn't it not clear?


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: (illcaptive)*

Has anyone else sent their ECU to APR? 
It's been 500 miles since I cleared the new 18048 DTC and it has not returned. Neither has the 16985. More time is needed to actually say APR fixed the problem, however so far so good.


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## d_le337 (Jul 5, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

I too have the same problem. 2002 337/awp/apr (stock, 91 octane). I have the GFB DV. Everything installed at 1500 miles. CEL came on at around 30,000. Anyone have any new updates yet?


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (d_le337)*

hrm, interesting... BUMP


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## urjetta16v (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (1badtsi)*

Before I say anything, I am not a genius, but I am a VW certified tech. I do not work on many tuned cars except my own. But the experiences I have had with this code may be of some help to you people.
I have seen this code on dozens of stock ECMs. I have never seen a car not run with this code. I have seen this code in memory without the MIL lit, and of course with it lit. Sometimes the code will erase, sometimes it will not, but there is no sense to me when it does and does not and I do not know if the code has returned on cars where it erased. I've released a number of cars to customers where it was not covered on warranty and they did not want to buy a new one. As far as I know these customers are still driving around. I usually ask these customers to keep in touch regarding this issue, but have not heard anything from any of them.
The only information that we (vw techs) are given by VWOA is to replace the ECM. We get no diagnostic information or any reason for why the car gets this fault. I'm curious if anyone has access to ELSA (European diag info) to see if there is anything there.

_Quote, originally posted by *1badtsi* »_The dealer cant open the ecu, 

Nor would they want to, they are too busy. But if they cover an ECM that has been tampered with and VW calls for it for inspection, the dealer will end up eating the cost and the service manager might be a little annoyed with you. Of course they probably won't cover anything if it looks like the ECM has been hacked open and duct taped back together. If you have an extended warranty it might not matter though, they don't usually inspect anything.
My 2 cents
B


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (urjetta16v)*

Def. good info. Thanks... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## utsava (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

Add me to the list of the check sum error prone.
I'm weighing my options.... do I just bring it in to the dealer and try to get it replaced with the APR in it... or do I spend $ to get it put back to stock and THEN go to the dealer... or do I buy a spare ECU and forget the dealer.
Either way I would have to then send the new ECU to get APR DPP.
Does anyone know the software procedure for adding a new ECU to the car? If I am not mistaken, you have to "code" the ECU to your specific car correct?


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (d_le337)*

337 is ML ECU, not HS.
THANK YOU FOR POSTING, you're helping to settle some fact from fiction as to whether or not it is the HS ECU or the APR system.

_Quote, originally posted by *d_le337* »_I too have the same problem. 2002 337/awp/apr (stock, 91 octane). I have the GFB DV. Everything installed at 1500 miles. CEL came on at around 30,000. Anyone have any new updates yet?


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

Add me to the list...but my CEL came on when I bumped the rev-limiter in 2nd gear. When I clear the code with a cheap scan tool...the code remains, but the CEL stays off for about a day.
I'll be sending a package to APR soon.


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## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Aquaholic)*

hey everyone, it is me, i have been posting a little on this thread cuz i had this code also. ( quick question, how many of the people affected had the code pop up around 30000 miles?) i fit the description exactly, 2002, AWP 1.8t, w/ APR EMCS 91oct, and stock. the light came on around 29000 miles. so i sent the chip back to APR to make it stock. they returned it to me and i put it back in. sent it to the dealer with the code still there and got me a brand new ECU!! FO FREE!! ( i will check tomorrow to see if it is an LP or not) 
now all i have to do is go to my nearest APR rep with my original APR reciept from chipping it the first time, the reciept showing that APR chipped it back to stock, and the dealer reciept showing that they put in a new ECU and for a small labor fee of $50 i get SPP on my new chip. WOO HOO!Gonna add the 100oct program this time also. 
I will post soon to keep all you updated.


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## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redlands_gti)*

I had the same code pop up yesterday. I called the dealer today regarding this code and the service advisor said that my ECU needed flashing. He had a lot of cars come back with the same code and it was due to the new coil packs being put on. Apparently the new coils functioned differently fromt the old ones. This guy knows that I am chipped and he said that they can reflash only a certain part of the code that is causing the problem. I will let everyone know how it goes tomorrow! Wish me luck


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I a lot of cars come back with the same code and it was due to the new coil packs being put on. Apparently the new coils functioned differently fromt the old ones. This guy knows that I am chipped and he said that they can reflash only a certain part of the code that is causing the problem. I will let everyone know how it goes tomorrow! Wish me luck

That is really interesting! Definitely let us know how it goes? Can you ask the dealer what part of the ECU needs to be reflashed? That was I can request ONLY that part to be flashed at my dealership.








Hey Papsuki hows you ECU after coming back from APR? Still no code?


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## illcaptive (Dec 18, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

yeah let me know also on the reflashing. Because i did just get my coilpack on the fourht plug changed 3 months ago. hope it works.


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## sjoback (Feb 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redlands_gti)*

might want to check that free SPP upgrade. Last APR told me, the upgrade would be 1/2 price. so, it would cost you $300 to get SPP and your original program(s).

_Quote, originally posted by *redlands_gti* »_hey everyone, it is me, i have been posting a little on this thread cuz i had this code also. ( quick question, how many of the people affected had the code pop up around 30000 miles?) i fit the description exactly, 2002, AWP 1.8t, w/ APR EMCS 91oct, and stock. the light came on around 29000 miles. so i sent the chip back to APR to make it stock. they returned it to me and i put it back in. sent it to the dealer with the code still there and got me a brand new ECU!! FO FREE!! ( i will check tomorrow to see if it is an LP or not) 
now all i have to do is go to my nearest APR rep with my original APR reciept from chipping it the first time, the reciept showing that APR chipped it back to stock, and the dealer reciept showing that they put in a new ECU and for a small labor fee of $50 i get SPP on my new chip. WOO HOO!Gonna add the 100oct program this time also. 
I will post soon to keep all you updated.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

But if they gave free DPP to those who have suffered from this CEL...without admitting fault...it sure would be a great sign on their part.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

But you've already paid for the programming/labor once
What makes DPP an upgrade worth paying for...same program as if they installed a chip...seems like it would be easier on their part to just DPP current customer's cars if they need their ECU raplaced. 
This guarantees that customers will have a positive attitude toward APR and recommend others. Otherwise...even if it isn't their fault...they're catching a lot of negative press over this.


----------



## Giggles (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Pannikattk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pannikattk* »_
I'm fed up...


"You are always fed up man." Where have you been. I haven't seen you in ages, only when problems pop up.


----------



## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
That is really interesting! Definitely let us know how it goes? Can you ask the dealer what part of the ECU needs to be reflashed? That was I can request ONLY that part to be flashed at my dealership.








Hey Papsuki hows you ECU after coming back from APR? Still no code?

It's been over 2,000 miles and the code has yet to return. So far so good. I scan my car almost every week.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error ([email protected])*

Came back from the dealer today... disappointing... looks like they can't clear the code either. I guess APR's encryption really works








I theory that I sort of came up with is this:
According to the dealer, alot of stock vehicles that have come back with this code is due to the new coil packs. And when they "reflash" the ECU with the proper code to accept the new coils, then the code is gone. 
Since we are chipped, they would not be able to flash the ecu because of the encryption. This might be the reason why this is affecting all chip tuners (APR, GIAC, REVO) because of their properietary encryptions not allowing for the new patch to the ecu so to speak. 
So APR mite be rite in a sense that they can "patch" the problem. Looks like i mite have to send it in to them also


----------



## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

That explanation is great...but only works if you admit you're chipped.
I'm don't have new coil packs and have been told this means I need a new computer...under warranty.


----------



## gekbi219 (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

You guys can add me to the list...APR chip for over a year now, 22 K on the car, AWP engine code


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## krxtp2 (Aug 27, 2003)

I'm a member of the "16985 club" also. AWP engine, APR chipped for about 18k miles, 54k miles on the car. The code first appeared about 1800 miles ago. I clear the cel with the EMCS and it reappears within about 50 miles. The car however is running fine.
I talked to APR and they also told me it is a bad ECU. I wish APR would make available to their distributors the software patch they used on papasuki's ECU. I'm willing to pay them for their time, just as I would pay an APR distributor for the installation of a software update.


----------



## 20gti1.8turbo02 (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

i think its something to do with aprs new v2 program i had aprs first chip for a year then a month after i got v2 i though this code 
anybody else nothice this?


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## medium cool (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (20gti1.8turbo02)*

Exactly. No problems, then converted to the imho lame V2, and got the code in a couple of days. The dealer just replaced the ECM and I rolled away stock, which actually "felt" better that the V2! The fine people at NGP in Aberdeen then installed another module with V1.1 and all is well and peppy...credit also to APR for helping out...a really fine organization.
Issue seems to be yet another bad or oversensitive ECM.


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## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Pannikattk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pannikattk* »_
Hmm, so let's add this up here...$500 for the original APR chip that caused this CEL after 30k or so miles...( I think we have enouh proof to back up those claims)...and now another $300 to upgrade to their "new" serial port crap to combat their little CEL that oh so conveniently pops up after a certain amount of time.
A grand total of $800 for 185whp...
That's what the problem is, the majority of us take this crap lying down and do exactly what APR wants us to do. Either pay them the $100 to unchip and rechip our ECU's, or $300 to upgrade to their next best thing. Who's to say that the CEL won't return in another year??
I'm fed up...


That a great little story that you have there but you are WAY off base dude, and it helps if you know what you are talking about before you post.
First off about APR's chip causing this code to appear, not just APR chipped cars have this code. Bone azz stock cars report this problem also. It is a problem with the old ECM. That is why when you take it to the dealer they see it and instanly order you a new replacement LP ECM, no questions asked.
Also about APR charging you $100 to un chip and re chip our cars, and the another $300 for their SPP, where do you get this info?!?














If you are going to make accusations dont use other posts as your basis for your information. All you have to do is take you reciept from the original chipping process, and the reciept from the dealer showing that they replaced the ECM with a new one and you go to your nearest APR rep and show them the two reciepts and they will charge you $50 *TOTAL* (to cover their shops labor time) for the new SPP programming. If they say anything you tell them tio call APR and APR will tell them EXACTLY what i have just told you.
I know all of this because this is EXACTLY what i am doing right now. I have my new LP ECM and am waiting on Hartman Motorsports to get a laptop to SPP my car for a GRAND TOTAL of *$50!!* 
Dont post if you dont have the right info! Especially if you are going to make accusations about a VERY respectable company that has some of the most stable, trusted products on the market. 
Try calling APR next time before you talk crap abput them on the tex.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redlands_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redlands_gti* »_
That a great little story that you have there but you are WAY off base dude, and it helps if you know what you are talking about before you post.
First off about APR's chip causing this code to appear, not just APR chipped cars have this code. Bone azz stock cars report this problem also. It is a problem with the old ECM. That is why when you take it to the dealer they see it and instanly order you a new replacement LP ECM, no questions asked.
Also about APR charging you $100 to un chip and re chip our cars, and the another $300 for their SPP, where do you get this info?!?














If you are going to make accusations dont use other posts as your basis for your information. All you have to do is take you reciept from the original chipping process, and the reciept from the dealer showing that they replaced the ECM with a new one and you go to your nearest APR rep and show them the two reciepts and they will charge you $50 *TOTAL* (to cover their shops labor time) for the new SPP programming. If they say anything you tell them tio call APR and APR will tell them EXACTLY what i have just told you.
I know all of this because this is EXACTLY what i am doing right now. I have my new LP ECM and am waiting on Hartman Motorsports to get a laptop to SPP my car for a GRAND TOTAL of *$50!!* 
Dont post if you dont have the right info! Especially if you are going to make accusations about a VERY respectable company that has some of the most stable, trusted products on the market. 
Try calling APR next time before you talk crap abput them on the tex.










I think you need to take a bit of your own advice here. First off, it would be $100 bucks to APR. $50.00 to re-solder the stock chip back onto the ECU, then take it to the dealer, get the new LP ECU and then send it back to APR spend another $50.00 to re-chip. But maybe you didn't read the whole thread before you replied.
Secondly, APR is charging a mere $300 bucks to upgrade to their port programming... Again, maybe you didn't read the whole thread before you made your reply








So maybe it would be $350.00 to APR if you pay them to desolder, and then just upgrade to their SPP rather than rechip and then upgrade, but it is still quite a bit of money.
I'm not knocking APR, because I feel these prices are fair and they have done what seems best to resolve a strange issue that occurs MOSTLY with APR AWP ECU's on Vortex (I have a hard time believing anyone who says "just go talk to the dealer and they will tell you its a bad ECU..." According to my dealer every part on the car is bad and in need of upgrade whenever a problem appears...), I'm knocking uneducated posts on Vortex.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
I think you need to take a bit of your own advice here. First off, it would be $100 bucks to APR. $50.00 to re-solder the stock chip back onto the ECU, then take it to the dealer, get the new LP ECU and then send it back to APR spend another $50.00 to re-chip. But maybe you didn't read the whole thread before you replied.
Secondly, APR is charging a mere $300 bucks to upgrade to their port programming... Again, maybe you didn't read the whole thread before you made your reply








So maybe it would be $350.00 to APR if you pay them to desolder, and then just upgrade to their SPP rather than rechip and then upgrade, but it is still quite a bit of money.
I'm not knocking APR, because I feel these prices are fair and they have done what seems best to resolve a strange issue that occurs MOSTLY with APR AWP ECU's on Vortex (I have a hard time believing anyone who says "just go talk to the dealer and they will tell you its a bad ECU..." According to my dealer every part on the car is bad and in need of upgrade whenever a problem appears...), I'm knocking uneducated posts on Vortex.







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

okay judo, i will try to put this in terms you can understand.

Take your apr chipped car to the dealer with the check sum error
they scan it find out it is bad and give yoou a new LP ECM
you then go to an APR authorized dist.
you show them two reciepts (the ORIGINAL chipping reciept, and the dealer reciept showing replacement of the ECM)
They charge you *$50* for their labor
They plug in their laptop and SPP your car
can you add all of those numbers up, lets see
50+0= ?
wait, what is the grand total, noo it cant be
oh yeah *$50 TOTAL!!!*
was that easier for you, good boy.
have a nice day


----------



## powerdrive (Sep 7, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redlands_gti)*

Why do we need to pay anything? It's obvious that this is not an ECU problem, it's an APR problem, they should give us the fix, ( If one really exists) free.














http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redlands_gti)*

If we need be anal about this arguement...








Most people do not like taking a tampered with ECU to the dealer. So (reading the whole thread) I see the person who first brought this up mentioned he paid $50.00 to have APR resolder the stock chip back to the ECU. Then took it to the dealer and hope they warranty it, it is a gamble, then getting the new ECU being HS or LP, then sent it back to APR and paidy them $50.00 again to re-chip (or DPP if they are offering that). Still $100.00 in my book. But I see how it would be possible to get it for $50.00, but that was not the point to the guys original thread.








And you are assuming that we have an APR dealer/distributor near where we live. I however do not, so even if I get it for $50.00 I would have to pay to ship it to APR. Still more than $50.00...








That is if the dealer gives you a new ECU under warranty. If not you're out $300-400 more bucks...
BUT if you had read the whole thread, you would have seen APR is offering to replace the ECMS, clear the code and send it back to people for free... All a person needs to do is send it to them... Less than $50.00 to me... But I've read the whole thread and know what I am talking about.








Who cares though... APR is helping us out, and that is all that matters to me.


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## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

All the more reason to buy a new ecu, but VW has locked down the distributors where they need the VIN of the car that is purchasing








I bought my extra LP ecu before those restrictions, and I'll be selling my GIAC'd ecu in the near future WITH the SKC code from the dealer SRAD system. The vag-com can unlock the code, as it has the date on it








Just be weary of ANY mods. The VW dealers are usually ok with a few mods. Don't try it with a WRX (one of my last cars), cause they will deny on stickers, and the best part:
Every dealer is independent, so they can refuse to work on your car if they don't want to, out side of magnuson acts and the such.
Props to apr, but still be wary of the dealers before citing any laws








Ask me privately how I know (my 00 1.8T gti







)


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## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Pannikattk)*

ok sorry for the anger. but when i called apr they told me if i brought them a new ECM with original reciepts they would SPP it for 50 bucks.
i just dont like so many people always dogging APR and their products, and complaining about how much money they have to pay.
how bout i buy you a







and we go for a nice canyon run.








sorry fellow texers


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

have that problem too. put stock chip back on, as i had the apr one in there with stock, 91 and lockout mode. New dimensions could not even flash my ecu after the stock chip e\was put back on. they said my ecu needed to be replace. My car goes to the dealeship on monday. We'll see what they say. haven't had the code come up on me since the chip was taken out.


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## spdfrk (Dec 28, 2002)

I have been driving for about 10k now with check engine light on {catalyst below threshold fault} and guess what? I have an apr downpipe and cat. Yesterday I interrogated the fault memory and now check sum error was sored in the memmory aswell. And guess what? I have an apr chip 91-93-100. Just when I was thinking of sending them money for stage 3 I had a serious reality check and they are definitlly not getting my money. 2002 awp gti


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (spdfrk)*

I sent my HS ECU to APR this week, I'll let everyone know what goes on with it, I should be getting it back early next week.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

i took my chip out(apr), and i still get the code.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

Went to the dealer today. New computer next week.
What is the official word from APR...do we get DPP for $50?


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## quiksilver03 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Aquaholic)*

2002 AWP 1.8t w/ 38,000 miles. APR v2.0 stock-93-100 and just added FCE and TBA. Right after that, Check Sum Error. ECS tuning is looking into the matter and I am picking up the phone now to call APR.


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## quiksilver03 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (quiksilver03)*

Well. Talked to a confusing chic @ APR - said to send it in to clear the code. No-no my friend. I'm switchin' this one back to stock and right into the dealer. Gimme my new ECU. Then back to an authorized APR dealer to get SPP'd. Only for the cost of labor. PEACE!!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

No need to switch it back to stock...just go to the dealer. Did you get the SPP info. from APR?


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## quiksilver03 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

The chic told me from APR to get it removed so that when I get the new computer, they can put it back in, but I guess I don't have to since I want the SPP. Just worried about the chip in the computer when going to the dealer and APR backing out on me. I know they can't crack the case of the computer. Just trying to take the safest route. ****HERE'S the skinny - If the dealer swaps out your computer with the chip in it, APR or an authorized dealer will (with the receipt from the dealer showing the swap out) replace the soldiered chip for a fee of $50.00 w/ all of your previous programs or whatever a labor charge is from an authorized dealer of APR. ECS Tuning labor is like 20 or 30 bucks. If you opt for the SPP, it is an extra $50. through APR for a total of 100 bucks. Including all of your programs that you had previously. That's the skinny straight from APR. Talked to them for a second time this morning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (quiksilver03)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quiksilver03* »_The chic told me from APR to get it removed so that when I get the new computer, they can put it back in, but I guess I don't have to since I want the SPP. Just worried about the chip in the computer when going to the dealer and APR backing out on me. I know they can't crack the case of the computer. Just trying to take the safest route. ****HERE'S the skinny - If the dealer swaps out your computer with the chip in it, APR or an authorized dealer will (with the receipt from the dealer showing the swap out) replace the soldiered chip for a fee of $50.00 w/ all of your previous programs or whatever a labor charge is from an authorized dealer of APR. ECS Tuning labor is like 20 or 30 bucks. If you opt for the SPP, it is an extra $50. through APR for a total of 100 bucks. Including all of your programs that you had previously. That's the skinny straight from APR. Talked to them for a second time this morning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

sounds good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i'm going to the dealer this friday..they're not gonna check if i'm chipped right? sounds like they've been replacing the ecus no matter what when they see this code..anyways i hope all goes well


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## c murdah (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

APR + AWP + HS


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (c murdah)*

new dimensions said that they will spp my ecu for free, since i bought the chip and sotware from them. Whu you guys getting charged?
2002 gti turbo, stock, 91 and lockout APR.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

sorry, DPP not SPP.


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## quiksilver03 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

I haven't gotten charged anything yet. You only get raped when you send it back to APR. I should know next week what the deal is. Taking it to the dealer Tuesday. They can't crack the case to check and see if you have a chip.


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## quiksilver03 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (quiksilver03)*

I cleared my codes and now my CEL won't come back on. Damn I want DPP'd


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_new dimensions said that they will spp my ecu for free, since i bought the chip and sotware from them. Whu you guys getting charged?
2002 gti turbo, stock, 91 and lockout APR.

are you serious? thats great cuz i'm going back to them after friday..they told me the rechip was $50? but dpp is even better now


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (quiksilver03)*

You can't clear this code, it will come back go drive for a few miles, I promise.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (judoGTI)*

got my car back from the dealer, Sunnyvale vw, and they said that the code was caused by the chip that i had. But they did nothing about and even chrged me 172.50 for the labor of checking my codes. I am so pissed off, cause everyone here got the problem solved for free, and some of you guys did not even take the chip out. I took it out, they checked it, charged me for nothing, and didnt even clear my code!!!!! what a waste of money and time. So i am basically back to zero.
Any dealerships or place in the bay area that u guys know fix the problem for free, or under warranty? i need help.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_got my car back from the dealer, Sunnyvale vw, and they said that the code was caused by the chip that i had. But they did nothing about and even chrged me 172.50 for the labor of checking my codes. I am so pissed off, cause everyone here got the problem solved for free, and some of you guys did not even take the chip out. I took it out, they checked it, charged me for nothing, and didnt even clear my code!!!!! what a waste of money and time. So i am basically back to zero.
Any dealerships or place in the bay area that u guys know fix the problem for free, or under warranty? i need help.

Did you tell them you had a chip? Chips void warranties all over your car, you got to pay to play. Send it to APR, they might be able to clear it for you...


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_got my car back from the dealer, Sunnyvale vw, and they said that the code was caused by the chip that i had. But they did nothing about and even chrged me 172.50 for the labor of checking my codes. I am so pissed off, cause everyone here got the problem solved for free, and some of you guys did not even take the chip out. I took it out, they checked it, charged me for nothing, and didnt even clear my code!!!!! what a waste of money and time. So i am basically back to zero.
Any dealerships or place in the bay area that u guys know fix the problem for free, or under warranty? i need help.

are you serious?







i have an appointment with them this friday..i thought they were replacing the hs ecus that threw this code with no questions. Also, why did they charge you checking the codes? shouldn't it be done under warranty? or atleast shouldn't they have asked your to sign some form of cosent for the charges?


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_got my car back from the dealer, Sunnyvale vw, and they said that the code was caused by the chip that i had. But they did nothing about and even chrged me 172.50 for the labor of checking my codes. I am so pissed off, cause everyone here got the problem solved for free, and some of you guys did not even take the chip out. I took it out, they checked it, charged me for nothing, and didnt even clear my code!!!!! what a waste of money and time. So i am basically back to zero.
Any dealerships or place in the bay area that u guys know fix the problem for free, or under warranty? i need help.

Doesn't the law say they must prove the chip caused it?
Didn't APR give the impression that their chip would not cause a warranty problem...even if they didn't come right out and say it? This looks like the first good reason to point a finger that I've seen.


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## quiksilver03 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Aquaholic)*

They can't open up the computer casing to see if it is chipped. IT DOES NOT BELONG TO VW. It's Bosche(sp) I believe. Anyway, the chip is only detectable one other way and that's if the mechanic knows how it works, via the cruise control buttons. I'm not sure if I am going to switch it back to stock or leave it in when I go to the dealer. Any thoughts? Well, really, all that you have to do is have that don't F#%@ w/ me attitude when you walk in there and deny, deny, deny.... PEACE....


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (quiksilver03)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quiksilver03* »_They can't open up the computer casing to see if it is chipped. IT DOES NOT BELONG TO VW. It's Bosche(sp) I believe. Anyway, the chip is only detectable one other way and that's if the mechanic knows how it works, via the cruise control buttons. 

VW can open up the ECU casing if they want. VW Techs can detect if the ECU is altered by looking at specific areas with a tool that is similar to a VAG-COM (I think its called the 1551 if memory recalls). VERY VERY few dealerships will do this, unless it is part of normal troubleshooting procedure to solve a problem. Techs get paid per job, not per hour, so typically they won't waste their own time to perform this function.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (quiksilver03)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quiksilver03* »_They can't open up the computer casing to see if it is chipped. IT DOES NOT BELONG TO VW. It's Bosche(sp) I believe. Anyway, the chip is only detectable one other way and that's if the mechanic knows how it works, via the cruise control buttons. I'm not sure if I am going to switch it back to stock or leave it in when I go to the dealer. Any thoughts? Well, really, all that you have to do is have that don't F#%@ w/ me attitude when you walk in there and deny, deny, deny.... PEACE....









They can't open it, but they can refuse to service it if it looks tampered with, which it does because the casing has scratches on it from being removed, then APR actually opened the unit the solder a new chip on. And then you put it back into place. 
And there is always one easy way to check to see if you have a chip. The rev. limiter. Does it go past 6300 rpm??? If it does you are chipped. Or all you have to do it mess with the cruise control to see if it prompts you for an APR code or to select a program. Also a DEAD giveaway that you are chipped. 
And I think there is a clause in your contract that says if you chip your car, the entire warranty is void. They don't have to prove anything because you agreed to the clause when you signed the contract.
If the dealer replaces you chipped ECU, you are lucky. Period. Everyone else it's a gamble from the first minute. But all this comes unde the grand umbrella of 'you got to pay to play'. A new ECU is only 300 bucks from the Pottermans. Have fun.


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
They can't open it, but they can refuse to service it if it looks tampered with, which it does because the casing has scratches on it from being removed, then APR actually opened the unit the solder a new chip on. And then you put it back into place. 
And there is always one easy way to check to see if you have a chip. The rev. limiter. Does it go past 6300 rpm??? If it does you are chipped. Or all you have to do it mess with the cruise control to see if it prompts you for an APR code or to select a program. Also a DEAD giveaway that you are chipped. 
And I think there is a clause in your contract that says if you chip your car, the entire warranty is void. They don't have to prove anything because you agreed to the clause when you signed the contract.
If the dealer replaces you chipped ECU, you are lucky. Period. Everyone else it's a gamble from the first minute. But all this comes unde the grand umbrella of 'you got to pay to play'. A new ECU is only 300 bucks from the Pottermans. Have fun.

so if i get denied service can i go to another dealership or is it on the system or something?


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ...*

I'm curious how many of you sent the ECU to APR. It's been about 3,000 miles since I had mine fixed via APR. The DTC has NOT returned car runs fine.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (b0mbasaur)*

they put me in their computer. i dont know if it is all connected. the tech said that they think my car has been chipped or flashed. thats why they did not do anything about it. If any of you guys bring your car to Sunnyvale vw, cancel the appointment. you are going to get nothing. The charge i got was because i had mods on my car, therefore they had to check what was wrong with my codes, because of my mods. it is only under warranty if the problem is caused by the manufacturer, and then they do not charge you. they said that my chip caused the problem, and also they said that my catalytic was not working, and by turbo by-pass valve was not right either. Which is bull#@$t because i never had those codes comeup on me, ever. Anyway, go to Al Sanchez vw, i believe they are in gilroy. As far as i know, they do not care about mods, and will not void your warranty.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_I'm curious how many of you sent the ECU to APR. It's been about 3,000 miles since I had mine fixed via APR. The DTC has NOT returned car runs fine.

I just sent mine in, I should be getting it back today or tomorrow. We'll see. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

and you whats funny is that they did not even mention my quaife sixspeed gearbox!!! that thing alone would void warranty, and technically so should my intake.


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

good luch judogti


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_they put me in their computer. i dont know if it is all connected. the tech said that they think my car has been chipped or flashed. thats why they did not do anything about it. If any of you guys bring your car to Sunnyvale vw, cancel the appointment. you are going to get nothing. The charge i got was because i had mods on my car, therefore they had to check what was wrong with my codes, because of my mods. it is only under warranty if the problem is caused by the manufacturer, and then they do not charge you. they said that my chip caused the problem, and also they said that my catalytic was not working, and by turbo by-pass valve was not right either. Which is bull#@$t because i never had those codes comeup on me, ever. Anyway, go to Al Sanchez vw, i believe they are in gilroy. As far as i know, they do not care about mods, and will not void your warranty.

maybe i should cancel my apointment..i still need to get the coilpacks replaced under the recall. can i tell them just to leave the cel alone then and just replace the coils?


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (b0mbasaur)*

i think you can. when my coils were replaced, my chip was in, and they did not say anything about it. All they asked was "are you chipped?" and i replied no.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (judoGTI)*



judoGTI said:


> And I think there is a clause in your contract that says if you chip your car, the entire warranty is void. They don't have to prove anything because you agreed to the clause when you signed the contract.
> QUOTE]
> If you buy your car used you don't sign a contract and the warranty does transfer.


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Aquaholic)*

isn't there also another law that states that a manufacturer cannot make u use aftermarket parts, but only oem and still retain warranty? Car&Driver had something l\like that in one of their articles.


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

i guess just play dumb then? i don't really care if they don't replace my ecu...i just don't want them charging me all those labor fees


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (b0mbasaur)*

exactly


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_isn't there also another law that states that a manufacturer cannot make u use aftermarket parts, but only oem and still retain warranty? Car&Driver had something l\like that in one of their articles.

I think it's all on the dealership. My dealerhip knows I'm chipped, I've never had a problem getting warentee service. I say be honest and upfront with your dealership, they're not idiots. They know lots of 1.8t owners are chipped. When I went in for a coilpack replacement they dealerhip asked, they said that part of the update is to flash the ecm but since APR can't be overwritten flashing won't work. It's not hard to find out if you're chipped or not and if you want warentee work, just be honest, you don't want to piss them off by gettting caught in a lie.


----------



## c murdah (May 27, 2003)

Is there anything official online about the HS ecu that I can print out and take with me in case the dealer decides to give me crap?


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (c murdah)*

Nope because its not official.


----------



## c murdah (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_Nope because its not official. 

Soooo... I just go in there and say "Yo, change my ecu. Thanks"?


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (c murdah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c murdah* »_
Soooo... I just go in there and say "Yo, change my ecu. Thanks"?

Are you being serious? Because if you are, maybe you can take your mom and have her talk to the service guy and explain the situation. What do you usually do when you have a problem with you car and you take it in?
You go in and explain the problem. I recommend that is what you do for this instance too.


_Modified by judoGTI at 3:57 PM 9-16-2003_


----------



## c murdah (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

I guess you dont have a retarded dealership in your area. Or 4 or 5 like mine.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
They can't open it, but they can refuse to service it if it looks tampered with, which it does because the casing has scratches on it from being removed, then APR actually opened the unit the solder a new chip on. And then you put it back into place. 
And there is always one easy way to check to see if you have a chip. The rev. limiter. Does it go past 6300 rpm??? If it does you are chipped. Or all you have to do it mess with the cruise control to see if it prompts you for an APR code or to select a program. Also a DEAD giveaway that you are chipped. 
And I think there is a clause in your contract that says if you chip your car, the entire warranty is void. They don't have to prove anything because you agreed to the clause when you signed the contract.
If the dealer replaces you chipped ECU, you are lucky. Period. Everyone else it's a gamble from the first minute. But all this comes unde the grand umbrella of 'you got to pay to play'. A new ECU is only 300 bucks from the Pottermans. Have fun.


You are right the VW Techs can't open it... they just send it back to VW, but up here in Canada if there is an ECU replacement, there is a waiver that needs to be signed stating that if after inspection they find that the ECU has been tampered with, they will cancel your car's warrranty period, no questions asked. So if they do give you a new ecu under warranty, it does not stop there. Investigations start happening after the replacement. This happened to several customers at the dealership I went to.


----------



## Inigo Montoya (May 12, 2003)

*Re:*

This may be a dumb question, but so what. Has this or will this error occur with the new DPP? I am not chipped yet and have been reading this thread and wondering if anyone has had this problem with DPP.


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Inigo Montoya)*

i checked today in the vag-com manual, and for this code its says i need a new ECM. is it refering to a new ecu box?


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_i checked today in the vag-com manual, and for this code its says i need a new ECM. is it refering to a new ecu box?

Andrew, if you have free time maybe we could figure this out. If you remember I only did a single test and it was Add Word 01-Engine Electronics, let's try a different approach (Operating Mode) with my VAG 1552 scan tool. LMK, like I said I've got time and this looks like a productive one.


----------



## quiksilver03 (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: (atoson)*








- Going to the Dealer next week. (Check sum error). APR chip. Should I take it out or leave it in. They never questioned me before but, if they try to re-flash it and it does not take, does that tell them that I have a chip or that my computer is just fried? The answer to these questions would be greatly appriciated. THANKS!!!!


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Re: (quiksilver03)*

Mission Failure: Just got back from Sunnyvale VW and no new ecu. They asked me if i was chipped and i said yeah so they just said they wouldn't check the DTCs because if they did and found it to be the ecu is jacked they could/would void my warranty. So i just left it as that and told them just to change my coils. Well anyways, since they didn't check the codes and even know i have a chip now the guy said the warranty is still good..so i guess its not all bad news


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: (b0mbasaur)*

i told you that vw sunnyvale will not do anything about the problem because they know that we are chipped. and to be nice, they do not wANT TO VOID YOUR WARRANTY.


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

me and atoson are going to try and figure this thing out, since he's got the vag-com tool.


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_i told you that vw sunnyvale will not do anything about the problem because they know that we are chipped. and to be nice, they do not wANT TO VOID YOUR WARRANTY.

I kind of figured that, Tim (ND) and Sunnyvale VW had some limitations regarding special edition (ND) VW's they sell on their floor. It's mostly show parts and not really much of the go, so when you come in for service, all they'll fix is your broken floor mat anchor and nothing to do with emission systems (if chipped). That pretty much says it all 
_Quote »_to be nice, they do not wANT TO VOID YOUR WARRANTY.


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_me and atoson are going to try and figure this thing out, since he's got the vag-com tool.

Let me know when you want to come by and hook up the VAG-1552, make some time when you do. I want to check it doing a cold simulation, so we have to cool it down with the fan. While waiting for that, we could probably fire up the grill for some dog & chips. LMK when you're free.


----------



## illcaptive (Dec 18, 2001)

*Re: Re: (atoson)*

just to post to the board i got my ecu replaced with a new ecu at stockton vw in cali. i had a apr chip in it. al they asked is if i chipped it, i said no and they replaced the ecu with no other questions asked. remember if you tell them you dont have a chip when they ask they have no reason to look inside the ecu which they are not supposed to any way.


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: (illcaptive)*

Okay here is what I have so far with this DTC.
16985 P0601 Internal Control Module Memory Check Sum Error
-Replace ECM (J220)
Is this code only related specifically to a 1.8T engine?
Reason I asked is because there are other codes that have some similarity or significance to this code like P0602, P0603, P0604, and P0605 which I have test and repair procedures on them from my DTC Bible that came with my VAG-1552. If you think there are some relevance with my research shoot me an IM and I can post the copies for the procedures.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Re: (atoson)*

a round of applause for atoson's support in the matter. lets try and figure this sh#$ out. illcaptive got lucky, but if they send the ecu to vw and they check to see whats wrong, they might void your warranty.


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## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Re: (illcaptive)*

.
_Quote, originally posted by *illcaptive* »_just to post to the board i got my ecu replaced with a new ecu at stockton vw in cali. i had a apr chip in it. al they asked is if i chipped it, i said no and they replaced the ecu with no other questions asked. remember if you tell them you dont have a chip when they ask they have no reason to look inside the ecu which they are not supposed to any way. 

Well we KNOW a new ECU will fix this. The problem is we want a solution that does not require defrading VW, or being without a car for a week+ while APR examines the ECU. VW can and will charge maximum price for a new ECU if they start getting a bunch of APR'd ECUs at the home office. I just cant afford to be without a car, nor can I afford a rental while my ECU is gone. Anybody have any luck with a local APR rep clearing the code, or upgrading to version 2? I would be willing to drive to APR and pay them for an upgrade, if it might help


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Re: (SmokinDub)*

dude, is this a 1.8t specificaly or it runs across different systems (2.0l, 2.8l)? I hope you read my entry about 4 other codes that suround this P0601, and I have procedures to fix it.















IM me if you want to help me find it, because I don't have this problem but I have a DTC bible that has diagnostic and repair procedures. 


_Modified by atoson at 7:46 AM 9-20-2003_


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: Re: (atoson)*

New ECU Today! My receipt says it's an LP.







What does that mean? I know their are several models...I searched for LP ECU and computer, but got nada.
Time to install GHL!


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (Aquaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_New ECU Today! My receipt says it's an LP.







What does that mean? I know their are several models...I searched for LP ECU and computer, but got nada.
Time to install GHL!









Its a new model ECU. Basically an HS that people dont have issues with.


----------



## syntrix (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: Re: (Aquaholic)*

Cool, so LP will work in HS... that's weird.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Re: (syntrix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *syntrix* »_Cool, so LP will work in HS... that's weird.


Thats a BIG maybe. Some have said it works. I have heard several stories that it will cause problems too. Im still using an HSm until I have more proof.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

What kind of problems...how long does it take for them to surface...I plan in getting APR V 2 and installing my GHL this weekend.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

Umm I think some were posted in this thread. I dont have time to search right now, but if you look I'm SURE you'll find some info on it... 
I'll try to look after work and see what I can find.


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## AxisDub (Aug 16, 2003)

I had all the same probs as you guys, i made friends with a tech in michigan and he replaced my hs box with a lp, i then upgraded to v2 and spp for 100.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (AxisDub)*

for those of us who have bull**** dealrships, where can we get an lp?


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_for those of us who have bull**** dealrships, where can we get an lp?

Give me a break. Are you telling me you didn't KNOW you voided your ECU warranty when you chipped your ECU?






















*sigh* whiners

go to http://www.vwparts.com and spend $300.00 bucks for a new one. The LPs may cost a bit more, but the HS's cost 300.00



_Modified by judoGTI at 10:56 PM 9-22-2003_


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## c murdah (May 27, 2003)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

What are the part numbers?


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
Give me a break. Are you telling me you didn't KNOW you voided your ECU warranty when you chipped your ECU?
























VW has acknowledged a problem with the HS ECU and they're willing to replace it if/when the code appears. This sounds like a border line recall issue...like coil packs were in the beginning. If you bought your car used with a chip I'm sure you didn't expect to have no warranty...besides, if it was a pure warranty issue we would be getting HS ECUs, not LPs.
Do you expect to pay for coil packs because you have a chip and exhaust?


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_
VW has acknowledged a problem with the HS ECU and they're willing to replace it if/when the code appears. This sounds like a border line recall issue...like coil packs were in the beginning. If you bought your car used with a chip I'm sure you didn't expect to have no warranty...besides, if it was a pure warranty issue we would be getting HS ECUs, not LPs.
Do you expect to pay for coil packs because you have a chip and exhaust?

Show me a document (or anything from VW for that matter) that states VW has acknowledged HS as being a poorly made ECU?


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

I don't have one... why are they automatically replacing them with a "better" unit? 
How many coil packs did they replace before they issued official documents admitting they were faulty?
A VW tech posted that the 16985 code is rectified by replacing the ECU...not with the same part number but with a new...better LP unit.


_Modified by Aquaholic at 10:43 AM 9-23-2003_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_I don't have one... why are they automatically replacing them with a "better" unit? 
How many coil packs did they replace before they issued official documents admitting they were faulty?
A VW tech posted that the 16985 code is rectified by replacing the ECU...not with the same part number but with a new...better LP unit.


So VW didn't admit to this? So there is no proof yet. Hmm. And if you look at the evidence of this poll, you'll see that most of the DTCs are caused on APR AWP ECU's. So this weakness maybe being exploited by being chipped. Not just because of the ECU. You can't assume anything. Show me proof, until you do you cannot expect VW to replace your ECU. Especially since they do not have to with the warranty on it being void.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

The proof is in asking how many non-chipped cars have this problem. A lot more than the poll you love so much. This is not an uncommon problem among un-chipped cars. And VW is replacing them with upgraded ones no charge and no questions...that's the proof.
A few dealerships who are being a pain to chipped people don't count.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

This is all hearsay. You have NO proof. Parts break on cars. That's a fact. Some HS ECU's may have failed on their own. But these nonchipped ECU's are still covered under warranty. So it is their right to have their replaced with no charge and no questions. 
But there is NO proof that VW is automatically changing HS ECU's with this code just because. There has been no recall, no TSB, nothing. You are upset because you took the gamble and lost. You knew full well that when you chipped your ECU, you voided the warranty on your ECU. Period. Game over. 
You have to pay to play. If you were worried about having your warranty valid for the lifetime of the warranty given, bought or transferred you should have not modded your car. Period. You cannot blame a dealer for doing what is in their right to do.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

I didn't lose...I got he LP ECU. There's no TSB because the dealers already have the instructions. 
The HS ECU issue can not be directly blamed on the chip...evidence being all the non-chipped failures. 
I was given the impression by APR that the chip would not cause any warranty issues...and my impression was correct. 
If chipping increased the failure rate VW would be checking to see if you're chipped...but it doesn't...so they don't. They know about the problem and they're fixing it...as needed. The same way they tried on coil packs. If the failure/complaint rate gets high enough then there will be a recall.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

This is almost the dumbest thing I have ever heard... How do you think the dealers get their 'instructions'??? Through a TSB!!!!!!!!!

_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_I didn't lose...I got he LP ECU. There's no TSB because the dealers already have the instructions. 
 
I'm not saying you can blame it on the chip, I'm saying the chip possibly makes it more prone to happen. And there is just as much evidence for this as their is for your saying 'VW admits to the problem'









_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_
The HS ECU issue can not be directly blamed on the chip...evidence being all the non-chipped failures. 


I think you are flat out lying here, and if you are not. It's people like you who get warnings put on coffee cups that the contents inside are hot and not to spill it on yourself. Research, and read the fine print. Chip your ECU and your ECU warranty IS VOID. Period. So you are sadly mistaken on this one. If the dealer swapped yours, then you are lucky. But the fact of the matter is if you told them you are chipped they had the right to deny you repair under warranty for it. It does happen, thigns get replaced that are modded all the time, I'm not saying it does not, but I hate whiners who complain about warranty issues when their warranties are in fact void.

_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_
I was given the impression by APR that the chip would not cause any warranty issues...and my impression was correct.

Again, you have zero proof on this. Monkey's can fly too.







They do check to see if you are chipped when they send the ECU back to ECU manufacturer (Motronic). If they are found to have replaced an ECU with a chip in it, the dealer eats the cost. Some dealers will have you sign a paper stating if they find it is chipped that you will be charged for the replacement after the fact.

_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_If chipping increased the failure rate VW would be checking to see if you're chipped...but it doesn't...so they don't.

They are fixing it because it is a warrantyable issue! Of course they are going to fix it. If you are chipped, as I stated above, they CAN AND WILL deny you the service. They will gladly fix it and charge you, but they do not have to do it for free. If it does get high enough, granted they may start a recall, but until then there is nothing that says VW admits this is a common issue, and is really a part defect, etc.... 

_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_They know about the problem and they're fixing it...as needed. The same way they tried on coil packs. If the failure/complaint rate gets high enough then there will be a recall.


Bottom line is if your ECU was fixed for free. Congrats, you got by, got lucky whatever... All I'm saying is VW is by no means screwing their customers by not replacing ECU's for free under warranty.
PS - I own page 8










_Modified by judoGTI at 11:14 AM 9-23-2003_


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_How do you think the dealers get their 'instructions'??? Through a TSB!!!!!!!!!

Don't the dealers have a set of instructions explaining the remedy for each engine code? Or do they open a service dept. with no instructions and just wait for the fax machine to tell them what to do?

_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
All I'm saying is VW is by no means screwing their customers by not replacing ECU's for free under warranty.


I agree...but customers should keep their old ECU if they pay for the first one just in case the recall is issued.
VW has set up the game...we all play because we have VWs. Some of us have figured out how to play for free...others have to pay.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

when i brought my car in for the code, i did not have the chip in the ecu. they said that the code was caused by the car being chipped. they did not swao the ecu and made me oay for the service charge of checking my car. I had no chip in there, so you tell me how they knew i had one in there previously.When i checked with atoson and it says that the code means your ecu is bad and needs replacing. IM atoson and he will tell you, he's got the vag-com manual with the remedies to all codes. Somehow they knew that my car had been chipped, I sure did not tell them. dealers do have instructions to each engine code remedy. The code we have requires a new ecu.


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

Andrew, heres how they found out. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_when i brought my car in for the code, i did not have the chip in the ecu. they said that the code was caused by the car being chipped. they did not swao the ecu and made me oay for the service charge of checking my car. I had no chip in there, so you tell me how they knew i had one in there previously.

you left a DTC in memory from the chip after it was removed, even with it removed it will be stored until you errase it. Now it would be a different story if it was a totaly different ECU without a chip. Just by seeing the 3rd digit of the code P0*6*01 will tell you that it relates to the computer and it's output signals. That's giveaway #1, but it doesn't tell it's chipped or not, it just points toward the ECU having a legitimate malfunction or a legitimate tampering of the ECU. So in my opinion, you took their bluff. Humans can really manipulate all kinds of situations.







they see this code everyday, if that didn't make them experts at playing poker with this code they would be out of business, then again if they got busted, they'd be out of business too.


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (atoson)*

so are you telling me that they guessed i had a chip in there? If so, then i gonna go back, tell them and get a refund on the payment i made. that pisses me off.


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## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_
VW has set up the game...we all play because we have VWs. Some of us have figured out how to play for free...others have to pay.


that's just sick. i'll admit that most VW dealerships are shaddy has f**k and don't really give a flying rats a$$ about you, but i'm not about to rip off a dealership just to play the "game" as you put it.


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_so are you telling me that they guessed i had a chip in there? If so, then i gonna go back, tell them and get a refund on the payment i made. that pisses me off.

you should have came to me first and erased the code and use a non tampered ECU before you went there. Boy that just made me a little confused














lemme go to bed now before I start owing more money to the world.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_
that's just sick. i'll admit that most VW dealerships are shaddy has f**k and don't really give a flying rats a$$ about you, but i'm not about to rip off a dealership just to play the "game" as you put it.

I didn't rip off the dealership...I was totally honest...I told no lies. And I got an LP computer.
Here's what's sick:
My dealership's rules: If an exhaust is present the tech has the right to refuse scanning your car to see why the CEL is on...becaust many CELs are caused by something in the exhaust and that would not be covered by warranty.


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_ If an exhaust is present the tech has the right to refuse scanning your car to see why the CEL is on...becaust many CELs are caused by something in the exhaust and that would not be covered by warranty.

Wow, I thought the reason you won't hook up a VAG 5051/2 tug boat scanner or a VAG 1552/1 was due to after-market radios using the radio connectors. The K-wire sends when not cut off and insulated would fry the scan tools once you plug them. VAG-COM rosstech has a write up on this and sells a diagnostic tester specifically for this, it checks the usage of the K-wire by the after-market radio before you hook the scan tool.















exhaust would void warranty with OEM exhaust and related parts claim but not the whole program. It's like wheels and asking them to fix a covered blow CV joint, imo that's related. See when I worked there, if it takes a long time for VWNA to cover the cost for warranty repair to the dealer, the dealer usually backs off or gives in if they just couldn't back out of the claim.
Me, I like that, why? If it's a major claim (engine, trans R&R) the core sits in a corner waiting to be picked up by the firm. I've never seen any of them sent to the firm (VWNA) nor picked up. I do see them in the rear trunk of a tech and will be sold in the black market or personal use. I love my 16V core and it wasn't that heavy, maybe because it wasn't literally free.


----------



## Volksjager (Sep 10, 2003)

*Re: (atoson)*

i can see them not wanting to warranty things that are related to exhaust but seriously. you need a aftermarket DP before they can really deny a claim. i don't see how a cat-back system is going to do any harm. especially if all you have is a 2.5" CB


----------



## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

The service advisor at Charles Maund in Austin said that since many CELs are caused by someting to do with the exhaust (apparently including engine) and since the tech gets paid less for warranty work...the tech can (and usually does) refuse to even scan your CEL unless you pay for it.


----------



## heysuperman (Aug 17, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_The service advisor at Charles Maund in Austin said that since many CELs are caused by someting to do with the exhaust (apparently including engine) and since the tech gets paid less for warranty work...the tech can (and usually does) refuse to even scan your CEL unless you pay for it.

so if my car is completely OEM my local VW dealer can still refuse to work on my car because he gets paid less? actually, that sounds a lot like my local VW dealer







. but i didn't pay 21k for a brand new car with a full warranty just to get denied warranty because some lazy a$$ VW tech wants to make more money







.
Thank God there is at least one good dealership in my state that actually knows what they're doing and does it all under warranty.


----------



## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (heysuperman)*

He can refuse if he sees an exhaust...or probably anything non OEM.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Aquaholic* »_He can refuse if he sees an exhaust...or probably anything non OEM.

Technically with only a cat-back he cannot. But that is a whole different arguement for a whole different thread. Well, if he does refuse it, you will have to take him to court to prove him wrong, so it's not really worth the hassle. It does sound like you have a lazy dealer though.


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: (heysuperman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heysuperman* »_Thank God there is at least one good dealership in my state that actually knows what they're doing and does it all under warranty. 

The shop floor of a dealership is like a breeding ground for PMS, the aura inside the yellow line is like dogs each having their own bowl of dog food and you trying to keep him company. Canines are exposed, letting the outsider know dead or alive he ain't sharing none. 
Talk about techs that are Vietnam Vets, they are kings of pit bull fighting pits. Ask a question, get a lump on your head caused by a flying tranny case for an answer. Bring them a special dish from your native country, they'd be socializing with you while reminding what canines are for. I love working in a place like that, in fact I miss it a lot, it's got something to do with who carries the heaviest, hairiest, baddest balls in the shop. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

















_Modified by atoson at 9:54 AM 9-25-2003_


----------



## RUFASTR (Jul 16, 2003)

Wish me luck!
My coilpacks finally took a crap and I have to pay the dealer a visit tomorrow. If I'm lucky I'll walk out with a new LP box, if not I'll live with the CEL staring at me for awhile longer.


----------



## Crass! (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: (RUFASTR)*

Farking hell. Mark me down as a member of the 16985 code club.
Relevant data points:
2002 Jetta 1.8t Tiptronic
AWP (HF engine code - HS is the manual, HF is the auto/tiptronic)
APR 91/100 chip programming
replaced coil packs
Had this code for about 1.5 months - almost _immediately_ after replacing my coil packs. 
*sigh* researching
any word on APR replacing or giving us a deal with DPP?



_Modified by Crass! at 9:19 PM 9-28-2003_


----------



## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (Crass!)*

well after many months of dealing with this light i finally bought a new ecu,LP for that matter.well 1 problem i ran into maybe someone here has the answer to,since i swapped ecu's i no longer have cruise control...i know there was an issue for this when the cluster gets changed but the ECU???if someone knows where i need to go in vagcom to remedy this situation id appreciate it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
as for my apr chip,im sending in the ecu to get removed and maybe ill take the ecu for a replacement at the dealer.


----------



## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

No issues with my new LP ECU. Maybe a tech at the stealership can tell you.


----------



## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

if i have to go that way i will but the nearest dealership wont talk to you unless you bought the car from them,and my dealer is about 1.5 hrs away so im not exactly looking forward to that trip.im just hoping that someone here has heard of this isssue and maybe knows how to correct it,if not im making the journey but then again they will know i have a different ecu which right now isnt a good time for that right now since it still has the apr in it....


----------



## krxtp2 (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (got_boost)*

Search under cruise crontrol in 1.8t forum. Someone posted the vagcom sequence there. My ecu was replaced at the dealer and they forgot to activate the cruise control. A quick trip back to the dealer remedied the situation.


----------



## redlands_gti (May 12, 2002)

*new ecm cruise control*

from the factory the default setting is off. go to http://www.ross-tech.com and search under info on MK IV's and it will tell you there.


----------



## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (redlands_gti)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1058248
so revo admits to this problem as well. too bad they charge 50 bucks to fix it...









so i guess it's not APR's fault... eh fellas?


----------



## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (turbovw18)*









_Quote, originally posted by *turbovw18* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1058248
so revo admits to this problem as well. too bad they charge 50 bucks to fix it...









so i guess it's not APR's fault... eh fellas?









Please read our post again. We would NEVER charge for any updates or fixes if related to our own products. We have identified this problem in another company's products, and since no one else seems to have a permanent solution we felt that it would be in the best interest of the market for us to offer a solution.
We appologize for any confusion.


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Revo Technical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Revo Technical* »_








Please read our post again. We would NEVER charge for any updates or fixes if related to our own products. We have identified this problem in another company's products, and since no one else seems to have a permanent solution we felt that it would be in the best interest of the market for us to offer a solution.
We appologize for any confusion.


Ok lemme get things straight. So lets say i'm chipped by another company like APR, you guys offer to clear the code for $50, but are saying the code will come back? Second, if we change to revo you're saying that the code will be cleared and won't come back correct? And finally, our ecu has to be sent to you guys or can it be done at an authorized dealer?


----------



## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (b0mbasaur)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b0mbasaur* »_
Ok lemme get things straight. So lets say i'm chipped by another company like APR, you guys offer to clear the code for $50, but are saying the code will come back? Second, if we change to revo you're saying that the code will be cleared and won't come back correct? And finally, our ecu has to be sent to you guys or can it be done at an authorized dealer? 

Correct, $50 for a straight forward clear (which eventually will return should you retain the code that caused it). Also for the $50 we will gladly reflash it back to stock that will eliminate the fault for good. Or we can remove error code (16985), flash the ECU with Revo software and return the ECU to you with an SPS device all for the cost of the SPS device and return shipping.


_Modified by Revo Technical at 7:01 AM 10-10-2003_


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Revo Technical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Revo Technical* »_
Correct, $50 for a straight forward clear (which eventually will return should you retain the code that caused it). Also for the $50 we will gladly reflash it back to stock that will eliminate the fault for good. Or we can remove error code (16985), flash the ECU with Revo software and return the ECU to you with an SPS device all for the cost of the SPS device and return shipping.

_Modified by Revo Technical at 7:01 AM 10-10-2003_
 Do you know when this can or will be done at a local distributor because my cars a daily driver and i can't really afford to be without my car. Thanks


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (b0mbasaur)*

don't see why not... all that is needed is to remove the cause (bad code







) just by flashing the REVO software into the ECU and clearing the code.


_Modified by dknl at 7:01 AM 10-11-2003_


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (dknl)*

if the error code is caused by the company that made the chip, then its only fair that that company should do the labor and everything else to make things like they are supposed to be.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Italian GTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Italian GTI 1.8T* »_if the error code is caused by the company that made the chip, then its only fair that that company should do the labor and everything else to make things like they are supposed to be.

It's not caused by the company.


----------



## forcefedjetta (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

do you have a "chip" or direct port program


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (judoGTI)*

no not caused by "the company"







... but they prob incorporated the bad code into their programming so hence their programming.
What I find strange is why does APRs code throw this but if APR claims it's HS ECU then why does REVO in HS not throw this? Revo claims their code has not thrown this.
oh and if you guys haven't noticed 
APR has top notch service







GO APR http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by dknl at 9:44 PM 10-11-2003_


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (dknl)*

i have a chip


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_no not caused by "the company"







... but they prob incorporated the bad code into their programming so hence their programming.
What I find strange is why does APRs code throw this but if APR claims it's HS ECU then why does REVO in HS not throw this? Revo claims their code has not thrown this.
oh and if you guys haven't noticed 
APR has top notch service







GO APR http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

_Modified by dknl at 9:44 PM 10-11-2003_

I think it comes down to a hardware failure not the software. I think the software is working correctly, but when one of my EEPROMS failed, the checksum didn't add up right. So 'technically' the software worked... But I'll be finding out more on this later... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (judoGTI)*

well how can REVO remove it/fix the error by flashing over APR software if it's eeprom/hardware failure? wouldn't the hardware failure still throw this error?


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (dknl)*

he's got a point. how can they fix software if its hardware? Are GIAC chips throwing this code too?


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

It seems to be more than an APR issue. Some stock HS ECUs and some Revo flashed HS ECUs seem to have the same problems.


----------



## a2gtinut (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Raman Gain)*

This will happen if the tunner doesn't know what he is doing and doesn't know how to calculate checksum.
In recent years Bosch started to calculate checksum from parts of software.
This cannot be reverse engineered just like everyone claims that they did it on their own (GIAC, APR, etc).
Anyone can buy FLASH emulator connect it to the ECU put car on dyno and monitor data.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (dknl)*

I don't know if they are ALL hardware issues, I just know mine was.


----------



## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_well how can REVO remove it/fix the error by flashing over APR software if it's eeprom/hardware failure? wouldn't the hardware failure still throw this error?

We cannot reflash over the hardware, we would need to remove the encryption board and replace it with a new stock Flash Eprom prior to reflashing with Revo Code. Secondly the issue is not the hardware but the software upon it.


_Modified by Revo Technical at 7:08 AM 10-15-2003_


----------



## jeremyAPR (Jan 21, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Pannikattk)*

I have been watching this thread for some time now and thought I may be able to provide a bit of insight. There have been a number of issues with the "HS" ECU, in both stock and modified forms. In fact if you are interested in checking this on your own, contact you dealer and try to order a spare "HS" unit. The “LP” which was used on 03 models equipped with the manual transmission has superceded this unit. 
I have spoken with several VW Dealers that have admitted to issues with the 02 "HS" box, who confirmed that this is an issue known by both VW NA and VAG. I hope this clears up the confusion surrounding previous posts.


----------



## Crash6 (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (jeremyAPR)*

Ok. Assuming VW will follow in its own foot steps and not do anything about this until an army of lawyers knocks on their door, would we be able to use a different ECU such as the "LP" mentioned above to replace the "HS" units?


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## Crass! (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (jeremyAPR)*

fyi my dealership warranted the ecu. I'm waiting on the replacement to arrive. 
Jeremy: Class act on the re-chipping for minimal charge! That's what customer service is all about. Question for you though - when can we expect a customizable program option? Bump up timing, boost, fueling etc? I would so jump on that right now...


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Crass!)*

ughhhh... seems i've got this code too.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (screwball)*

http://www.impexfap.com/partli...79019
i'm finding the ecu on there but not on pottermans. can anyone hustle me a link?


_Modified by screwball at 2:21 PM 10-26-2003_


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

blip


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## Crass! (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (screwball)*

just got my replacement ecu in - LQ code (2003 automatic/tiptronic) provided by the dealer. I'm waiting for word from my local APR rep (Audi of Hawaii) to get the DPP cabling in and I'll be hooked back up soon. Until then I'm running stock boost/timing etc. Crikey I miss my B()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()ST!


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## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Crass!)*

So, I go into the dealer today got the usual, oil change and blown coilpack. My dealer did notice the permanent DTC, they felt it was a faulty ECU. The note on the invoice says that my CEL will remain. The funny thing is, MY CEL IS GONE








No explination as to how they did it. I'm going to need to fire up the VAG-COM and see if the DTC is still there.


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## gekbi219 (Sep 6, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (SmokinDub)*

they removed negative battery terminal...drive around a few miles, it will return for sure....they all do


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## GeezUpInYa (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (jeremyAPR)*

Does anyone here have any more facts about this issue? Is there a published Technical Bulletin from VW regarding the HS ECMs?


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## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (SmokinDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SmokinDub* »_ The note on the invoice says that my CEL will remain. The funny thing is, MY CEL IS GONE








No explination as to how they did it. I'm going to need to fire up the VAG-COM and see if the DTC is still there. 

This is why:


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## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (atoson)*

anyone have updates about this code? anyone clear it? Success Stories? Well its been about 8 months for me and I still don't know what to do about the code besides get a new ECU.


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## T.BagnRI (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (b0mbasaur)*

i have had this code also for over a year but i went out and bought a spare ecu anyway for visits to the dealer,which of course is now useless since they voided my warranty due to installing a lightened flywheel


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (b0mbasaur)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b0mbasaur* »_anyone have updates about this code? anyone clear it? Success Stories? Well its been about 8 months for me and I still don't know what to do about the code besides get a new ECU.

Buy a new ECU, or if you are lucky get the dealer to swap it under warranty.


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## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (judoGTI)*

count me to the list.....








2 yrs of apr'd ecu "ml" and now this code....will not go away
16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error
P0601 - 35-00 - -








one thing that i have noticed reading through this thread... I am "ML" not "HS" or "PL" so there that theory goes out the window...i see more than one type/year of ecu that is apr'd with this issue










_Modified by AkVdub at 8:40 AM 1-4-2004_


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

cool
Then you noticed APR devotion to the problem right?







good luck


_Modified by dknl at 9:08 PM 1-3-2004_


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (dknl)*

we should get a letter to apr, with all the guys who have this problem, and have apr buy us a new ecu, or we tell everyone we know to boycot apr. easy enough!


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## DubSix3 (Feb 19, 2002)

*Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

One of the guy's from my shop, also with the "ML" ECU, has the same error. He sent it back to APR and it is still there. And if everyone doesn't know, ML ECUs are not $400 like the others. They are $2k. 
I sure would like to hear of some solution to this also.


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## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (DubSix3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubSix3* »_One of the guy's from my shop, also with the "ML" ECU, has the same error. He sent it back to APR and it is still there. And if everyone doesn't know, ML ECUs are not $400 like the others. They are $2k. 
I sure would like to hear of some solution to this also.









im going to make some calls tomorrow... i hope this can get resolved, i have supported apr, and i need to see what my options are...


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## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
I think it comes down to a hardware failure not the software. I think the software is working correctly, but when one of my EEPROMS failed, the checksum didn't add up right. So 'technically' the software worked... But I'll be finding out more on this later... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

...did you find anything out judoGTI


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## krxtp2 (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (AkVdub)*

I threw the code also. I was (physically) chipped with APR. I called the dealer and told him about the CEL and what the code was. He said VW would replace the ECU under the 80k emissions warranty--and this was with 52k miles on the car. I had the stock chip put back in, took the car to the dealer and had ECU replaced under warranty. Then I had APR DPP installed. Only cost to me from my APR dealer was re-installation of the factory chip. The code is not because of the chip!


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (krxtp2)*

i went to the dealership and they told me that the dtc was caused by the chip, and they refused to give me a a new ecu even under warranty, even though i told them that i never had a chip in there.(Liar!!!). So, should i just try a different dealership? U can clearly tell that my car is modded, and how! The dealership i went was bitching about how i had a blowoff valve in there, and how i should put my stock exhaust back on.


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## krxtp2 (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

Try a different dealer. I played it safe and had the stock chip re-installed before having the ecu replaced. The only mods to my car otherwise are Bilstein HD's (stock springs) and a rear sway bar so maybe the dealer never considered the notion that I might be chipped.


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## d_le337 (Jul 5, 2003)

I also have an "ml" ecu with the same problem for about 6 months. would like to know how i can get a new ecu. already tried bringing it to two dealers with the stock chip in it, and was quickly denied. Currently running stock chip, but still have the same stinkin CEL.


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (d_le337)*

i had the stock chip reinstalled in the ecu before going to the dealership, but they said that the codes was caused by the chip, even though it was not in there and i denied ever putting one in there in the first place.


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## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

you guys have to realize that the DTC is stored permently in the memory of the ecu... when you put the stock chip back in there, it still holds the original code
i dont understand why the dealership didnt repalce the ecu when you stated that the chip was not there


----------



## ArsinGTI (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (AkVdub)*

Well, You can add another one to the list. Just got the code about 3 days ago.
I have an APR (AWP) with valet, stock, 93, and 100 octane programs. Anyone find a solution yet?


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (ArsinGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ArsinGTI* »_Well, You can add another one to the list. Just got the code about 3 days ago.
I have an APR (AWP) with valet, stock, 93, and 100 octane programs. Anyone find a solution yet?









I think the only real luck we have had is to get a new ECU. Either under warranty or to shell out some noodles for it. 
Do you have the HS ecu??


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## ArsinGTI (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
I think the only real luck we have had is to get a new ECU. Either under warranty or to shell out some noodles for it. 
Do you have the HS ecu??

No I believe I have the older ECU. So basically the only solution is to get a new LP ECU and have it chipped again? Any news if APR will help out on that?


_Modified by ArsinGTI at 2:12 PM 1-22-2004_


----------



## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: (ArsinGTI)*

end your ECU to APR. Mine has been fixed for around 5,000 miles, no problems whatsoever. In my case the 16985 was NOT A DEFECTIVE ECU. So, there is a change yours isn't defective either.


----------



## illcookyourrice (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: (papasuki)*

I just got this 16985 ICM memory check sum error code yesterday and now i stumble onto this thread. I got my APR chip december 02 with multiple programs (stock, 91, throttle/fault code) and my car is a awp with a HF ecu, before all this my car drove fine and normal and still does i think with this code thing. I'm a student and i cannot afford to buy another ecu, theres got to be a solution to this, too many awp cars with apr has this problem. APR please find a solution to this without making us buy a new ecu or going to the stealerships. I'll be contacting new demensions asap.


----------



## John A (Feb 19, 2001)

*Re: (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_*end* your ECU to APR.

oops!


----------



## 02BeetleSport (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (illcookyourrice)*

i came up with this code a while back but it was because my car had been built with an ecu out of a jetta at the factory. the vin had been programed for the jetta and all. i suggested we contact the guy whos vin that was and see if he got my beetle ecu but the dealership said "no, it'll be ok". either way, i got my new ecu and i got to upgrade to DPP for 40 bux because of extenuating circumstances







.


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (AkVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AkVdub* »_count me to the list.....








2 yrs of apr'd ecu "ml" and now this code....will not go away
16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error
P0601 - 35-00 - -








one thing that i have noticed reading through this thread... I am "ML" not "HS" or "PL" so there that theory goes out the window...i see more than one type/year of ecu that is apr'd with this issue










well, sent my ecu back to apr.... they cleared the code.
checked fro the dtc with vag-com and the code is no longer, so in "my" case it was not a hardware issue with the ecu (i.e. it did not need to be replaced)
also, apr's customer service was great... i sent the ecu out, once they got it, they fixed it the same day and over-nighted it back to me with no extra charge http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
if you are apr'd, and get this CEL/dtc first send it to them and if they can fix it, they will.... if not get the stock chip put back in and go to the dealer, get the ecu warrantied and do what you want


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (AkVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AkVdub* »_
well, sent my ecu back to apr.... they cleared the code.
checked fro the dtc with vag-com and the code is no longer, so in "my" case it was not a hardware issue with the ecu (i.e. it did not need to be replaced)
also, apr's customer service was great... i sent the ecu out, once they got it, they fixed it the same day and over-nighted it back to me with no extra charge http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
if you are apr'd, and get this CEL/dtc first send it to them and if they can fix it, they will.... if not get the stock chip put back in and go to the dealer, get the ecu warrantied and do what you want
















How long have you been driving on your ECU?


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (judoGTI)*

well, this is my second 337... long story (that involves a DUI driver hitting me going 80mph) i got this one and it was already chipped... the owner said at waterfest 02...
1 1/2 yrs to round it out


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (AkVdub)*

heh, I meant after getting it back from APR cleared up.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_heh, I meant after getting it back from APR cleared up.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

only had it a day.... but if the code is gone... it shouldnt come back







, i believe im in the same boat as papasuki 
i am talking about the actual dtc.. before i would clear it and came right back w/ the vag, this is not the CEL.....
if it does, ill let everyone know


----------



## SpoolinAWP (Aug 14, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control*

ok i just got my Vag Com, so i found out ive had this code since day one. I bought my ECU used, and the CEL popped up about 40 miles after I swapped it out. About 3 months ago. My question is, if i send this to APR, are they gonna turn me away because im not an original customer?


----------



## Cypher2k (Nov 23, 2000)

I get a similar code every time I disconnect my battery.
Ive got two older versions of vag-com. And one reads it as an ecu code. The other labels it as a "voltage too low" code.
Guess which one is just a mislabeled code?


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (SpoolinAWP)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpoolinAWP* »_ok i just got my Vag Com, so i found out ive had this code since day one. I bought my ECU used, and the CEL popped up about 40 miles after I swapped it out. About 3 months ago. My question is, if i send this to APR, are they gonna turn me away because im not an original customer? 

to get the ecu in your name... you will have to pay a 50$ transfer fee...
if they can clear it, they will, if not you will have to get the ecu replaced


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (AkVdub)*

just got my code today. Calling APR tomorrow


----------



## utsava (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (A1Crazy)*

Well, I am now forced to get a new ECU, as I won't pass NY inspection with codes in the ECU... Has anyone replaced thier chipped ECU and gotten DPP on the new one? I'm wondering how APR is handling this. I would like to go to the local shop and have it done, but I refuse to pay full price to get this done. Anyone have nay experience with this? Honestly, APR should give me the reprogramming for 50 bucks or less.. 
need to know ASAP


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (utsava)*


_Quote, originally posted by *utsava* »_Well, I am now forced to get a new ECU, as I won't pass NY inspection with codes in the ECU... Has anyone replaced thier chipped ECU and gotten DPP on the new one? I'm wondering how APR is handling this. I would like to go to the local shop and have it done, but I refuse to pay full price to get this done. Anyone have nay experience with this? Honestly, APR should give me the reprogramming for 50 bucks or less.. 
need to know ASAP

call apr


----------



## utsava (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (AkVdub)*

Alright, for the benefit of all, I will share what APR and my local APR distributor told me. I have a 02 Jetta which was APR chipped back at Waterfest 02 and has had the 16985 DTC for about 7 months now.
APR said it will be 50 bucks to get DPP. All I need is the receipt from APR.
The local APR distributor said he would charge 75 installation on top of the 50 from APR.
So for $125 I'll be chipped again....
....of course thats on top of 450+ for the stupid new ECU. What a rip.
"you gotta pay (TWICE), to play (with a Volkswagen)"


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (utsava)*

that would tick me off...
did you send the ecu to APR ??? , they cleared my code
you need to put the stock chip back in, and get the ecu warrantied, if APR cannot clear it (unless the dealer knows about you being chipped) or you have many mods
edit: your lucky your ecu costs 400 bucks (mine costs 2k)


_Modified by AkVdub at 1:32 PM 2-5-2004_


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (AkVdub)*

yea I'm pretty ticked at APR as well. I don't wanna pay all that money for something I already frickin own! What a RIPOFF!


----------



## illcookyourrice (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (A1Crazy)*

i sent my ecu through ND to APR and they seem to have fix my ecu for 60 bucks, i'm happy so far with my outcome.


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (utsava)*


_Quote, originally posted by *utsava* »_Has anyone replaced thier chipped ECU and gotten DPP on the new one?

Yes. No codes on the chipped version, no codes on the DPP version. I have an LP ECU with almost 25K miles, and 21K have been chipped.
If you are asking if I've gone from a chipped ECU to DPP on a _separate_ ECU, I'm sorry that is not my case. The conversion has been done on the same ECU.


----------



## A1Crazy (Jun 15, 2000)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (Raman Gain)*

well, all I have to say is it's a lot easier dealing with APR distributors than APR themselves. I talked to APTuning today and was actually treated like a human being! Something I have NEVER experienced from APR themselves.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to APTuning. I know where I'll be buying my big brake kit now. They know how to treat customers, even when they aren't making a lot of money.
By the way, my APR exhaust is still falling off. I think I'll be investing in a GHL this summer.


----------



## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (A1Crazy)*

I have a 2002 jetta hu ecu, with stage III throwing this code. What the Hell do I do?
Car will not run with the stock chip. Plus I bought the car with the stage III installed. I didn't get the stock chip or the apr programmer!!!








I will say that I was told I would have to replace the ecu by the seller. Oh Ya about 2 minutes after all the paper work was sighned!


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (extremsplvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *extremsplvr6* »_I have a 2002 jetta hu ecu, with stage III throwing this code. What the Hell do I do?
Car will not run with the stock chip. Plus I bought the car with the stage III installed. I didn't get the stock chip or the apr programmer!!!








I will say that I was told I would have to replace the ecu by the seller. Oh Ya about 2 minutes after all the paper work was sighned!









don't u have some sort of law in the states about selling a car with a known problem without disclosing to seller prior to sale?
Anyways....good luck.


----------



## utsava (Jun 5, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (dknl)*

has anyone taken the APR chip out of the problematic ECU and re-installed it in a new fresh ECU? I'm assuming this would have no problems....
Also, could someone summarize this 10+ page post for me and let me know if theres been anyone with this problem with a LQ ECU?


----------



## KurtP (May 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

apr awp no code


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (KurtP)*

inspection's coming up, i've got to send APR my ecu...


----------



## sjoback (Feb 3, 2002)

*Re: new ecm cruise control (utsava)*


_Quote, originally posted by *utsava* »_
Also, could someone summarize this 10+ page post for me and let me know if theres been anyone with this problem with a LQ ECU?

I don't think you'll have this problem with an LQ ecm. HF (02) is more likely to throw this code. 
I got an LQ to replace my faulty HF. So far now problems, but of course I have dpp now, and I've only had dpp for a few days.


----------



## NC2002GTI (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

I've recently been fighting a losing battle to keep this code erased. I've noticed a 4 mpg drop in fuel economy since it appeared. Mine's a 2002 GTI with the APR stock, 93, 100, TBA, and FCE programs.
Guess i'll call APR and hope for the best.


----------



## NC2002GTI (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (NC2002GTI)*

Please excuse me if i missed this somewhere, i only read the first and last two pages of this thread. Has anyone considered how long it took this problem to develop and that it might pop up again even with new ECU's a year to a year and a half down the road?


----------



## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

I"ve got a recurring CEL I haven't had scanned yet...we'll see.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

wow!!

still.....!!!!
best of luck ppl


----------



## JackP311 (Feb 10, 2003)

*Re: (dknl)*

why play? get DTC's


----------



## cburkart (Jan 10, 2000)

*Re: (JackP311)*

LOL... in that same vein:


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (cburkart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cburkart* »_LOL... in that same vein:









LMAO!!!


----------



## JackP311 (Feb 10, 2003)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

someone needs to throw THAT on top of our forum here.....


----------



## jhirsche (Oct 23, 2000)

*Re: (JackP311)*

Got the "code of death" on Friday 3/5/04.
My cars stats:
2002 GTI 337 (AWP engine code)
"ML" suffix ecu
APR 93 v1.o from 12/02 through 6/03, v2.0 then until present
cleared the DTC the first time it showed up with VAG-COM. (actually erased from the memory) but, 50 miles later the CEL came back on, and a subsequent check with the VAG-COM showed the dreaded 16985 DTC, which I now cannot clear....


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (cburkart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cburkart* »_LOL... in that same vein:










LMAO too


----------



## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: (jhirsche)*

So has anyone tried the Revo fix for this code that they were advertising a while back?
APR says that they dont even manipulate the portion that causes this code, but Revo says they know how to fix it.
Just curious if the bottom of this has been reached yet.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (SlvrBllt)*

Revo supposedly was successful in fixing this.

Check this out:
http://andywhittaker.com/vagfix/index.html
Now APR just needs to hire this guy or buy the software.


----------



## SlvrBllt (Oct 15, 2001)

*Re: (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_Revo supposedly was successful in fixing this.

Check this out:
http://andywhittaker.com/vagfix/index.html
Now APR just needs to hire this guy or buy the software.


I'm guessing that this method has to be done the old fashioned way by removing the chip, reading it, and then reflashing it with the fixed code. That wont work on most chips these days since they are encrypted.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (SlvrBllt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SlvrBllt* »_
I'm guessing that this method has to be done the old fashioned way by removing the chip, reading it, and then reflashing it with the fixed code. That wont work on most chips these days since they are encrypted.

probs.... maybe APR can chime in


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_
probs.... maybe APR can chime in









I thought they did








LMAO!! Happy Friday!!


----------



## blue2slow (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: (judoGTI)*

Count me on the DTC16985 Club,
Jetta 02 AWP, ECU KP.


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

interesting.... APR chip as well...hmmm









this one cracks me up STILL


_Modified by dknl at 6:34 PM 3-23-2004_


----------



## drm916 (Dec 6, 2000)

*Re: (dknl)*

you guys should have gotten GIAC... no checksum errors or cold start issues.


----------



## rgrubb (Jan 6, 2002)

*Re: (cburkart)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cburkart* »_LOL... in that same vein:









I love that


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (drm916)*

friend just got toasted with this code
337- ML ECU 
APR chip
anyone know the obscene amount dealer wants for new ECU








sux 4 him


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (dknl)*

step 1: contact APR and let them know the situation
step 2: send it to them, if they can fix it they will, if not get the stock chip put back in
step 3: get ecu back and if code is still there (with the stock chip) take it to the dealer
step 4: DON'T TELL THE DEALER IT WAS CHIPPED
step 5: have them, the awsome dealer, warranty the ecu (they have done it before)
step 6: get car back with new ecu w/ receipt and get ddp (or what ever the hell you want)


----------



## gtistyle20v (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: (JackP311)*

i dont know if anyone is keeping names around here... but u can count me in on this issue..
im an HL 
happened a couple months ago
not sure if ill pass pa emmisions this year cause with a cell you'll fail the visual inspection and if i clear the code before i go in. not sure how clean she'll be running with all the sensors not yet set


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (gtistyle20v)*

Add me to the list or whatever. 02 AWP, APR V1 till about 15K then V2 and now have 25K. Had an appointment at the dealer but canceled. 
Called my local APR dealer today and they said just take it to the dealer and then come by with the new ecu and they will flash it, but still concerned about warranty issues. Will call APR tomorrow.

_Modified by CO Boy at 9:33 PM 4-7-2004_
Called APR and they told me to send it to them. They clearly stated "we will clear the code" but will let them know that if they cant just put the stock one back in.


_Modified by CO Boy at 7:59 AM 4-9-2004_


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

Well I think the results on this are in. 83% of the vote is a scary number, and more than a coincidence in my mind. 
I am curious as to how many people have sent their ECU to APR and had them remove the code, and have it be sucessful. I know of only one being Papsuki, are their others???
EDIT: had wrong screen name.



_Modified by judoGTI at 2:35 PM 4-13-2004_


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

My ECU is at APR right now. When I emailed them about the issue I aked for the stock chip to be put in if they cant clear this code. Their reply was, we will clear this code. I IMd Brett (i think) and he said that APR dealers, as of next week, would also be able to clear the code.
Should have me ecu back tomorrow and will follow up.
I imd papasuki and he sent his ecu in and the code has not come back.


_Modified by CO Boy at 2:26 PM 4-13-2004_


----------



## Shadow_if (Dec 29, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

i sent my ecu in about 3 weeks ago, they cleared it, now hopefully it will stay that way (knock on wood)


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_Well I think the results on this are in. 83% of the vote is a scary number, and more than a coincidence in my mind. 
I am curious as to how many people have sent their ECU to APR and had them remove the code, and have it be sucessful. I know of only one being DKNL, are their others???


Actually i don't even have APR.








Friends have it... earlier fixes didn't work..... dunno about now
Someone said REVO was able to clear the code permanently.
Figure they would've done something to fix this problem sooner no? kinda like a recall of sorts for local distributors to handle it.
anyways...notice the support and commitment of the APR team







on this thread.
GO GIAC










_Modified by dknl at 11:33 AM 4-13-2004_


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Shadow_if)*

i still have the cel(a little over a year)..i want to send it in but i need my car daily so i haven't gotten a chance to send it in yet


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (b0mbasaur)*

Received my ECU back. APR had a quick turn around time. Will post up when I get it back in the car tonight.


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

ECU is in but its pissing out here in Philly so only drove around the block and no CEL. Will update/post every week or couple of weeks to keep everyone updated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_After doing some searching around and logging, looks like this problem (16985) is a little more common that I thought. Here is a list of vortex users that have experienced this problem...
edison29	2002 AWP APR Chipped
halchka99	2002 AWP APR Chipped
Papasuki	2002 AWP APR Chipped
sjoback 2002 AWP APR Chipped
judoGTI 2002 AWP APR Chipped
got_boost	2002 AWP APR Chipped
douknownam	2002 AWP APR Chipped
PH3ON1X 2002 AWP APR Chipped
Pannikattk	2002 AWP APR Chipped
Nefarious1.8t	2002 AWP APR Chipped
SmokinDub	2002 AWP APR Chipped
medium cool	2002 AWP APR Chipped
References:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=904306
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=754204
_Modified by papasuki at 4:39 PM 7-2-2003_

add me to this list as of today 4/17/2004
GREGGTI 1.8T 2002 AWP APR Chipped


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CO Boy* »_My ECU is at APR right now. When I emailed them about the issue I aked for the stock chip to be put in if they cant clear this code. Their reply was, we will clear this code. I IMd Brett (i think) and he said that APR dealers, as of next week, would also be able to clear the code.
Should have me ecu back tomorrow and will follow up.
I imd papasuki and he sent his ecu in and the code has not come back.

_Modified by CO Boy at 2:26 PM 4-13-2004_

Hey are the distributers really going to be able to clear the code? Did Brett say so? that would be great cuz its so much easier


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (b0mbasaur)*

(5:18 PM 4-12-2004) [email protected]: Yes, effective within the next week or so all of our dealers should have details on how to handle these type cases.

Check with your dealer or APR. Have no idea how its fixed but all I care about is that it is.


----------



## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

I find it extemely _IRONIC_ that this forum is sponsored by APR................ yet still no official post regarding this 1 year old thread








I'm waiting for my e-mail from APR , hopefully tomorrow


----------



## cburkart (Jan 10, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*

"Tomorrow?" You mean to tell me they didn't say "two weeks?"


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GREGSGTI 1.8T* »_ 
I find it extemely _IRONIC_ that this forum is sponsored by APR................ yet still no official post regarding this 1 year old thread








I'm waiting for my e-mail from APR , hopefully tomorrow









ironic isn't it







































_Modified by dknl at 6:14 AM 4-19-2004_


_Modified by dknl at 6:14 AM 4-19-2004_


----------



## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

i have check sum
i also have an issue with APR support... mainly the total BS of v-tune and us old skool soldered guys... 
i like their product, but i might just have to give them a http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (turbovw18)*

Just a quick update. It's been over 10,000 miles since I got my 16985 APR ECU fixed by APR and (knock on wood) the problem has NOT resurfaced.
Seems like most people are having this problem around the 25K mark. Who knows what will happen another 25K.


----------



## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

i'm at 44k.
got it at 42k


----------



## redshifter (Dec 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

I just got the code. 2002 AWP with about 24K miles. APR chip.








New Dimensions told me to bring my car into them, they'll solder in my stock chip, the dealer will give me a new ECU, and ND will re-chip me (DPP-style).
Still, that's two hours of labor which is $180! This clearly appears to be an issue with APR's program and I feel they should address it. I can't afford the downtime of pulling my ECU and ship it to APR, either. What a drag!


----------



## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redshifter)*

Here is my response from APR in an e-mail
From : APR <[email protected]> 
Sent : Monday, April 19, 2004 11:07 AM 
To : <gregsgti 1.8t 
Subject : RE: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error 

| | | Inbox 


We can reapir this ecu here and the ecu will need to be shipped in for us to clear it and return shippment to you. Thank you -Patrick Ashby-
Looks like a cure, lets hope


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*

as far as i know the code can be removed......i figure they flash the software to stock....remove DTC....and APR must've fixed it in their software and upload the new code.
still think it's not APR?...







dunno but if it's hardware issues with HS ECUs then this is suppose to come back right? if it doesn't come back what does it mean?


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

It is a problem with the ecu and normally would be replaced with an LP version. Also people with revo and giac have thrown this code as well. Sure the poll suggests it could be an apr problem but there are too many variables: How many people replied, how many people know about, etc. Just send your ecu in (sure its a PITA), but they cleared my code. If you go to the dealer you just might get a new ecu and have no problems or they could find it and void your warranty. For the three days I didnt have my car it was worth holding on to my warranty for another 20K or so.


----------



## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CO Boy* »_It is a problem with the ecu and normally would be replaced with an LP version. Also people with revo and giac have thrown this code as well. Sure the poll suggests it could be an apr problem but there are too many variables: How many people replied, how many people know about, etc. Just send your ecu in (sure its a PITA), but they cleared my code. If you go to the dealer you just might get a new ecu and have no problems or they could find it and void your warranty. For the three days I didnt have my car it was worth holding on to my warranty for another 20K or so.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I have the HS module, and I hope this FIX works, I'm getting Version 2.0 while I'm at it........,
I will post up results


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

there have been a few people on here (including me) that had the issue w/ ML code... not just the HS
so.... either the "hardware" is similar and at fault, or the "software" is similar and at fault...
i said it before, and i will say it again... this "16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error" can be caused EITHER by a hardware failure, OR buy a software issue, OR both... 
we have two causes of this DTC, and which one has been occurring more frequently (relatively speaking)










_Modified by AkVdub at 10:36 AM 4-20-2004_


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

but your ECU is still an HS right? and it is fixed right? so what was changed....THE SOFTWARE


----------



## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

I just got off the phone with Brandon @ APR
the Software is different and was told it is Fixed.
I also inquired about it returning?
According to APR , it will not return, due to the improved software and/or changes
Time will tell.....................








Now off to the dealer for more quirky VW fixes


----------



## tricky_d (May 28, 2003)

AWP here with HS ECU... have had this DTC/CEL off/on for about 6 mos. Interestly enough I got chipped w/ APR (v.2) last summer. So first 6 mos or so, I was not getting the 16985.
Now I have it, and can't clear with the APR "clear DTC" function.
Question: anyone aware of any negative effects of long term driving with this code? Other than not being able to use the CEL for its original purpose.


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GREGSGTI 1.8T* »_I just got off the phone with Brandon @ APR
the Software is different and was told it is Fixed.
I also inquired about it returning?
According to APR , it will not return, due to the improved software and/or changes
Time will tell.....................








Now off to the dealer for more quirky VW fixes









why the hell cant they come on hear and announce / tell / acknowledge that, and let this thread die


----------



## redshifter (Dec 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GREGSGTI 1.8T* »_I just got off the phone with Brandon @ APR
the Software is different and was told it is Fixed.
I also inquired about it returning?
According to APR , it will not return, due to the improved software and/or changes

So, does that mean that authorized APR installers like New Dimensions will soon receive the new software? I'd much rather drive there and have them re-flash my ECU rather than face 3 days of automotive downtime sending my ECU to APR.
And I agree. APR ought to show up in this thread and just tell us what the deal is. Put a bullet in this thing. Good luck, all.


----------



## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redshifter)*

APR's phone is: 334 502-5181
I cannot vouch for their vendors, but after spending $70.00 a round trip for my ECU to travel
from Phoenix to Auburn , AL. and being without my car for 3 days
My loyality to APR is not very strong at this moment. 
I feel the strong customer support APR once had is poor at best.
Why should I pay if is their mistake?
BTW: posting to this thread may implicate them and cause them to admit they were wrong? 
Heck it took VW how long to admit their coilpacks were faulty
Just a guess..............


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redshifter)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redshifter* »_
So, does that mean that authorized APR installers like New Dimensions will soon receive the new software? I'd much rather drive there and have them re-flash my ECU rather than face 3 days of automotive downtime sending my ECU to APR.
And I agree. APR ought to show up in this thread and just tell us what the deal is. Put a bullet in this thing. Good luck, all.
 yeah i'm waiting of word of this also..i rather go to ND and have them clear it....i need my car daily so this would help big time


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (AkVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AkVdub* »_
why the hell cant they come on hear and announce / tell / acknowledge that, and let this thread die









they won't acknowledge that .. hell look at this thread and their responses or lack thereof.
hell i wouldn't be surprised if there were no other chip manufacturers with this problem but them and that the votes were falsified.
GO GIAC http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

My car is now WAAAYYYYYYYYY past due for smog inspection. Damn permanent CEL has now become a BIG problem. So, I finally yanked my ECU and sent it overnight to Alabama. Hope APR will come through...


----------



## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*

APR's receptionist says they got my ECU and assumes it is fixed because she was told to overnight it back to me.















We'll see what happens when I get it back in the Jetta...


----------



## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SmokinDub* »_APR's receptionist says they got my ECU and assumes it is fixed because she was told to overnight it back to me.















We'll see what happens when I get it back in the Jetta...

Got mine in the GTI today, as well...no more Check sum error 
good luck all


----------



## THISMUG (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*

Well add another to the list.
02 AWP ML (337)
APR stock/93/100 - FCE/TBA
Just happened yesterday...
Was running v1 93 program till about 1 week ago (from 10k to 47k) then "upgraded" to v2 and added the ECMS w/stock, 100,and FCE/TBA and I get the friggin 16985 code that wont go away. WTF!?
I would really appreciate if APR would somehow chime in on here about this situation. I know they are reading this.







This is my 3rd APR program purchase for the 1.8t and would like to continue to support APR because i think they make a great product. But after reading 12 pages of this and not really any feedback from them, I may have to reconsider my loyalty.
It really doesn't seem logical that it is the ECU malfunctioning rather than something in the chipping itself. So many variables: ECU, Mods, mileage, etc and one that is 80+% of the claims are those with APR. whats that say.
I Just don't think its right to have to pay for ANYTHING to resolve this problem.


----------



## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (THISMUG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *THISMUG* »_
I Just don't think its right to have to pay for ANYTHING to resolve this problem.









C'mon, you modified your vehicle, you knew there could be consequences. It could be worse. You could have to shell our 2k for a new 337 ECU just to pass emissions. Just make plans to be without you car for 3 days, shell out the cash and overnight it over to APR. Obviously, they are at the point where they can clear this code easily.


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*

One APR chip =$499.00
93 Oct =








One DTC 16985 =








$60.00 shipping to APR and no DTC 16985 and keep my warranty = priceless. 
$60.00 was worth the piece of mind knowing that I don't have this code. Taking the car into the dealer with this code with a chipped ECU could have cost me more in the long run. My car runs better now than when I had the code (gas mileage went down the tubes). I'm not saying it is APRs software and I am not saying it is not. What I am saying is that it can be fixed.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

I wonder how they are able to fix it now, and before they said that they could NOT fix it and that it was purely a hardware problem?







I wonder if their just have their code ignore that DTC?


----------



## THISMUG (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

Ok thats not the point - I know I modded my car. I have had 2 other APR chips without any problems. Why should i have to pay any more $$ to get something fixed that I didn't have before I got their "upgrade". Thats retarded
Looks like I "upgraded" to a permanent CEL


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_I wonder how they are able to fix it now, and before they said that they could NOT fix it and that it was purely a hardware problem?







I wonder if their just have their code ignore that DTC?

well according to a post, Revo removes the *APR DTC *







by removing the APR chip.


----------



## THISMUG (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

APR are you listening?


----------



## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (THISMUG)*

JUST GIVE ME ECMS V-TUNE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Drehkraft (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (turbovw18)*

The problem with the Checksum error DTC is that it is stored on a different location in the ECU. It is not an area of memory normally accessed when clearing the DTC's. It is also not stored on the same eeprom as your software, so reflashing doesn't fit it either. 
So....either send your ECU to APR they are quite good with turn around times or wait till your local APR dealer has software to clear it.


----------



## redshifter (Dec 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (VWXTC)*

FYI, friends:
I just spoke with New Dimensions (my local APR dealer) and they cannot clear the code themselves. They said I have to either send the ECU to APR or take it to the dealer to get a new ECU.
I guess I need to figure out where I can stash an ECU-less car for three days in San Francisco. Drag!


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (redshifter)*

I've heard something is in the pipes to fix this issue - directly from the source itself. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## THISMUG (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

Ok so yeah there is a fix. But being without transportation for 3 days, paying overnight shipping is a crock.
Anybody know what is even causing this...the source


----------



## SmokinDub (Feb 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (THISMUG)*

My ECU is back in and after 30 min street, 45 min freeway, I think my car is fixed. Much improved performance and gas mileage, seems like they updated my software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JJ_337 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: (JackP311)*

Just got this code over the weekend on my AWP ML ECU. 21000kms on my chip. Probably 5000km on my V2.0 upgrade. Had my buddy clear the code with his vag-com... Engine light is off... so not sure what the issue is.... 
I haven't read all the threads just yet... but if it comes back I'll likely contact my programmer and see what they saOPTI0D
JJ


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (JJ_337)*

CEL light stays off for about 30 miles... then decides to come back... the DTC never goes away

_Quote, originally posted by *JJ_337* »_Had my buddy clear the code with his vag-com... Engine light is off... so not sure what the issue is....


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (AkVdub)*

read in another thread:
*ecu stores the number of flashes and increments a counter*
i'm thinkin the *APR CODE *







is from APR not taking into account of this when it was first released and now have finally clued into it and fixed it.


----------



## GermanCrazeTurbo (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (utsava)*

Hey guys,
I do have DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check on 2002 GTI 1.8T. GOt it 2 weeks ago while driving to friends apt to wash our cars. I did it with VAG COM and it came back on 3 times.. GRRR.. What would you recommend me to do? I plan to put the stock chip back on the ECU and send my car to the dealer where i bought my car. Or tell me what should I do? Thanks a lot.

Greg
IM - IndigoGTiTrbo


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (GermanCrazeTurbo)*

I recommend reading the thread. Which chip do you have? If APR, I sent my ecu back to them and received it back with no code. Yes you can put the stock chip back in but there is a chance they will know the ecu has been tampered with. I personally did not want to take the chance of the dealer, rep or whomever to figure out the ecu was opened and then decide to void whats left of my warranty. Dont ask to tell philosophy I guess.


----------



## GermanCrazeTurbo (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (CO Boy)*

I do have APR Chip... Ill sent my ECU back to APR and have them fix it..
Thanks for help...
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SPt_Vdub_1.8t (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (GermanCrazeTurbo)*

It seems like APR really needs to come out and say something about this because its effecting so many people.


----------



## GermanCrazeTurbo (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (SPt_Vdub_1.8t)*

If I put the stock chip back in and sent my car to the dealership.. Will it will be under warranty and get brand new ECU? My GTI is APR'd since 5,000 miles in September 2002. I had that code since April 17th....


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (GermanCrazeTurbo)*

Probably will get warrantied, but you will have to lie to them, and if they catch you I think you get arrested right on the spot.


----------



## cdem (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (judoGTI)*

well..i was going to buy an APR chip this week or the next, after readin this thread i guess i wont http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## J. Moss (May 27, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CO Boy* »_It is a problem with the ecu and normally would be replaced with an LP version. Also people with revo and giac have thrown this code as well. Sure the poll suggests it could be an apr problem but there are too many variables: How many people replied, how many people know about, etc. Just send your ecu in (sure its a PITA), but they cleared my code. If you go to the dealer you just might get a new ecu and have no problems or they could find it and void your warranty. For the three days I didnt have my car it was worth holding on to my warranty for another 20K or so.

I have NEVER had that code come up on a clients car.
Jeff (GIAC In SoCal)


----------



## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (J. Moss)*

Jeff,
My post was based off the poll information, but good to know that the poll isn't accurate except for the APR chipped ECUs.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

friends GTI with APR 16985 just got fixed..... REVO http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by dknl at 12:18 PM 5-3-2004_

_Modified by dknl at 12:39 PM 5-3-2004_


_Modified by dknl at 12:40 PM 5-3-2004_


----------



## THISMUG (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

Just admiring my CEL this morning bump


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (THISMUG)*

337s too?


----------



## Postman (May 7, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

Yup, 337's too. Mine just threw this code yesterday. I talked to APR and they said they and their dealers can clear it. I was planning on getting mine reprogrammed to 93 Octane (just moved from CA to IL) in 2 weeks up in Naperville anyways so I'll just clear it then.


----------



## Drehkraft (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Postman)*

Yes, as of last week APR dealers can clear this code. So ..... everyone go see their local APR dealer for help!


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (VWXTC)*

I wish APR would speak about what went wrong....


----------



## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_I wish APR would speak about what went wrong....

yeah.... right








Defective HS ECU hardware...


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## THISMUG (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

Well I finally broke down and payed the overnight shipping to send it in to get it removed








So far the CEL has not returned

BTW APR if you are listening: What is wrong with the programing to make it cause CELs?


----------



## OneQuickDub (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (THISMUG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *THISMUG* »_Well I finally broke down and payed the overnight shipping to send it in to get it removed








So far the CEL has not returned

BTW APR if you are listening: What is wrong with the programing to make it cause CELs? 

It intrigues me that people have actually gotten "CEL'S" or Check Engine Lights displaying as a result of this. I've had it forever and have never gotten a Check Engine Light.


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## OneQuickDub (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (SmokinDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SmokinDub* »_
C'mon, you modified your vehicle, you knew there could be consequences. It could be worse. You could have to shell our 2k for a new 337 ECU just to pass emissions. Just make plans to be without you car for 3 days, shell out the cash and overnight it over to APR. Obviously, they are at the point where they can clear this code easily. 

Completely wrong. Had APR said "Here...you can have this software but you will receive a certain DTC that will not go away" then you would have a valid argument. If they never stated that you would receive a DTC, then one should not be expected (as your paying for a product that they supply which does not advertise a DTC) and you shoudl NOT be required to pay for anything to fix the problem


----------



## b0mbasaur (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (OneQuickDub)*

Well just got back from ND and they cleared the checksum error for me. Almost for DPP'ed for free too but i didn't have my stock chip with me to change out







. Oh well, atleast theres no more CEL


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## 2kJettaVR6 (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (b0mbasaur)*

So is APR charging to fix this problem? I have to send mine in next week. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (2kJettaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kJettaVR6* »_So is APR charging to fix this problem? I have to send mine in next week. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

no charge other than *your* cost of shipping


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GREGSGTI 1.8T* »_
no charge other than *your* cost of shipping









u gotta pay to play






















...edited botched saying
_Modified by dknl at 7:06 AM 5-27-2004_


_Modified by dknl at 8:44 AM 5-27-2004_


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_
u gotta play to play
























Pay to play. lol....
But I guess you do have to play to play too....


----------



## OneQuickDub (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
Pay to play. lol....
But I guess you do have to play to play too....


Pay to play should only reference a part that breaks as result of a modification you made. You should not have to "pay to play" if the part itself which you purchased is not performing as advertised. Again...APR http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif on this one. Should be no charge to fix this. I realize they may be a smaller company, but still...VW supplied coilpack with their cars, those coilpacks failed. VW didn't say "overnight those coilpacks to our corporate headquarters and we will overnight you fixed ones back". No reason people should have to pay to ship these to and/or from APR. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif APR. This is one of the many reasons I'm not (1) Going stage III and instead going ATP RS and (2) Getting rid of my APR chip.


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## kkau (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (OneQuickDub)*

My 02" A4 1.8T with Wett chipped also get the same code







. I don't kown what can I do????


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## kkau (Dec 23, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (OneQuickDub)*

My 02" A4 1.8T with Wett chipped also get the same code







. I don't kown what can I do????


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## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (kkau)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkau* »_My 02" A4 1.8T with Wett chipped also get the same code







. I don't kown what can I do???? 

Contact Wett thats about all you can do. Hopefully like APR they can clear it for you
Besides buying a new ECU 
good luck


----------



## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

I took my car to the dealer and they gave me a new ECU...new model number too.


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## turbovw18 (Jul 5, 2002)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

do'nt you people realize it's the ecu coding... nothing more...


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## kkau (Dec 23, 2002)

Can the VAS tool of dealer clear that code?


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## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (kkau)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkau* »_Can the VAS tool of dealer clear that code?

No they cannot clear it , hence why I sent it into APR to have it cleared
I guess you could always drive around with the MIL light on


----------



## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (THISMUG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *THISMUG* »_Well I finally broke down and payed the overnight shipping to send it in to get it removed








So far the CEL has not returned

BTW APR if you are listening: What is wrong with the programing to make it cause CELs? 

Same here!


----------



## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (extremsplvr6)*

I don't know if this has been addresed elsewhere on this forum, but here's my story:
My car threw a CEL two days ago, so I had my friend scan it today, and it came up with "memory check sum error", just like all the other '02 AWP's.
I called Hartmann in Irvine (SoCal distributor for APR), and they said that they just need to re-flash the chip, and it'll be fine. Reason being: right before the guy left to start Revo, he wrote a whole bunch of bad codes, and it only affects '02's. 
So, hopefully, my car will be happy again tomorrow.


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (TheGreasyJap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheGreasyJap* »_Reason being: right before the guy left to start Revo, he wrote a whole bunch of bad codes, and it only affects '02's. 
So, hopefully, my car will be happy again tomorrow.


Ask your rep where he heard this information. I posted elsewhere it could be a possible connection, but never ever made any conclusions since I don't know both sides of the story.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (TheGreasyJap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheGreasyJap* »_I don't know if this has been addresed elsewhere on this forum, but here's my story:
My car threw a CEL two days ago, so I had my friend scan it today, and it came up with "memory check sum error", just like all the other '02 AWP's.
I called Hartmann in Irvine (SoCal distributor for APR), and they said that they just need to re-flash the chip, and it'll be fine. Reason being: right before the guy left to start Revo, he wrote a whole bunch of bad codes, and it only affects '02's. 
So, hopefully, my car will be happy again tomorrow.


That would be very interesting and I would be super pissed since I was one of the first and had to shell out a lot of money to get mine fixed because APR hasn't devised their fix for the issue yet.


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## 1badtsi (Mar 3, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_
That would be very interesting and I would be super pissed since I was one of the first and had to shell out a lot of money to get mine fixed because APR hasn't devised their fix for the issue yet.
 there is a fix for this that as stated previously requires only reflashing yoru chip. this fix has been around for a couple months i belive


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (1badtsi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1badtsi* »_ there is a fix for this that as stated previously requires only reflashing yoru chip. this fix has been around for a couple months i belive

Yeah but I had this problem EONS ago, and actually had to pay to get mine fixed because they didnt have the fix back then... It was my problem... According to them.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_ It was my problem... According to them.

u know what the thing i find funny?? 
It was addressed as defective HS ECUs in the beginning according to APR....
They denied any accusations of APR software problem and said defiantly that it was HS ECU hardware defect.
Then it turns out that LP ECUs started getting the code and all of a sudden they admitted that it was bad coding for whatever reason








What i don't understand is at the time this was addressed and seemingly a problem with many HS ECUs... why was the code not checked?


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_
u know what the thing i find funny?? 
It was addressed as defective HS ECUs in the beginning according to APR....
They denied any accusations of APR software problem and said defiantly that it was HS ECU hardware defect.
Then it turns out that LP ECUs started getting the code and all of a sudden they admitted that it was bad coding for whatever reason








What i don't understand is at the time this was addressed and seemingly a problem with many HS ECUs... why was the code not checked?

Put yourself in the shoes of APR. They had a few employees leave APR for another company. On the surface, they appeared to be good employees and there was no reason to suspect anything they did while APR employed them. When the checksum errors started, they had faith that work performed by an employee under contract by APR was good. It appears not to be the case, as the code that causes problems is tied directly to a former APR employee that now works for another company (Revo). Rather than perform another public slime-fest regarding the APR vs. Revo situation, APR sucked it up and has tried to develop a solution to the problem. Does it not strike you as funny that Revo publicly posted they developed a solution to the checksum error problem for a fee of $50 before APR even found it was a problem in the code? I sure find it interesting.
I totally blame APR for this problem - their code has problems and they are trying to deal with it. But if/when the courts weed through everything, I think it will be found that the problem will lead back to certain people, and those people are no longer at APR and currently work for Revo. That would be a very powerful conclusion, and not one I would wish to see happen, but one I think will happen.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

I'm def. not pleased with REVO either because of this. When I go BT I'll be going Upsolute like MRP2000GTI now instead of REVO...


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

i totally agree with you Raman.
But still think that they at least owed it to the customers to at least look over their work after ECUs started generating this code. It seems to me they just brushed it off without even verifying if "maybe" their code was at fault. Coding should've been discovered after the first few cases and release a statement and a course of action for those clients caught in the middle.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_i totally agree with you Raman.
But still think that they at least owed it to the customers to at least look over their work after ECUs started generating this code. It seems to me they just brushed it off without even verifying if "maybe" their code was at fault. Coding should've been discovered after the first few cases and release a statement and a course of action for those clients caught in the middle.










I totally agree. APR is to blame for this, possibly for ignorance in the past. But crucifying them for a problem they may not have created in the first place seems a bit harsh to me. They are taking it on the chin for this problem, and they have come up with a solution. I really respect them for that.


----------



## Fshowcars (Jun 23, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

still waiting on vtune for ecms customers
0lD 5k00L!!!!!!


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## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
I totally agree. APR is to blame for this, possibly for ignorance in the past. But crucifying them for a problem they may not have created in the first place seems a bit harsh to me. They are taking it on the chin for this problem, and they have come up with a solution. I really respect them for that.

define "them" ... at the time the individual you are stating caused the issue was employed by APR, so "they" caused the issue w/ the programming...
i think that it is BS to "blame it on the guy who left" no matter what the circumstances, they don't know enough about there software to see that there was an issue?








I consider all of this gossip, until "they" state that this is fact.
I don't know, since all of this has happened, i have LOST respect for "them". Besides this issue, the software has been excellent and served its purpose. Also, the individual who resolved this for me is also no longer with "them" will they be blamed for something next







.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (AkVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AkVdub* »_
define "them" ... at the time the individual you are stating caused the issue was employed by APR, so "they" caused the issue w/ the programming...
i think that it is BS to "blame it on the guy who left" no matter what the circumstances, they don't know enough about there software to see that there was an issue?








I consider all of this gossip, until "they" state that this is fact.
I don't know, since all of this has happened, i have LOST respect for "them". Besides this issue, the software has been excellent and served its purpose. Also, the individual who resolved this for me is also no longer with "them" will they be blamed for something next







.

you bet, why don't you call both APR and Revo to get both sides of the story? APR willingly talks to me, Revo has never called me back. I've tried to get both sides of the story, but Revo has never got back in touch with me. You can figure they keep forgetting to call me, losing the messages etc, or they just would like to not tell their side of the story for some reason, possibly that I'm brainwashed by APR


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## 03wolfie (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Fshowcars)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fshowcars* »_
0lD 5k00L!!!!!!

Old School being typed that way is kind of








New School typing and claiming Old School ways.......


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## Fshowcars (Jun 23, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (03wolfie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *03wolfie* »_
Old School being typed that way is kind of








New School typing and *claiming* Old School ways.......









excuse me... claiming???????????


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
Ask your rep where he heard this information. I posted elsewhere it could be a possible connection, but never ever made any conclusions since I don't know both sides of the story.

Will do; I'd like to figure this out as well.


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (TheGreasyJap)*

Revo had *nothing* to due with the 16985 error. 
This issue with APR came to be after Revo was released in March of 03. 
Sounds to me like APR put out new codes in a hurry to compete with REVO. I could be wrong but right after Revo came out, APR started releasing newer versions like v2. 
The aforementioned people that left APR where long gone before this code started popping up.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_Revo had *nothing* to due with the 16985 error. 
This issue with APR came to be after Revo was released in March of 03. 
Sounds to me like APR put out new codes in a hurry to compete with REVO. I could be wrong but right after Revo came out, APR started releasing newer versions like v2. 
The aforementioned people that left APR where long gone before this code started popping up. 

Lets not turn this into a "He said, she said" arguement which it is becoming. If you don't have facts, don't post about it. 14 pages is long enough, we don't need anymore unnecessary pages.


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

I'm not turning it into a pointing match, Raman Gain did that allready. 
I'm just stating the timeline of events that happened. 
Obviously something happened with APRs code. That is a known. 
Having APR's biggest fanboi point the finger at Revo saying it's factual is the problem.


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*

Yeah I didn't mean that directly towards you, I meant it to everyone, I just quoted your thread.








Everyone knows what is going on between those two companies. It sucks for everyone, including us. 
I would like to know if that is the facts though.


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_Everyone knows what is going on between those two companies. It sucks for everyone, including us. 
I would like to know if that is the facts though.

Remember most have only heard APR's side of the story, as they posted all of the court docs and such on their site. Most of the info that has been posted on the 'tex has came from APR or people associated with them and should be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_
Remember most have only heard APR's side of the story, as they posted all of the court docs and such on their site. Most of the info that has been posted on the 'tex has came from APR or people associated with them and should be taken with a grain of salt. 


Why don't YOU post a side of the story we are unaware of? You are a Revo distributor, correct? As well, this has nothing to do with v2 - that was covered in another thread. It has to do with ML and HS ECU code, both written BEFORE certain people left APR and went to Revo.
I've TRIED to get in touch with Revo. They won't talk to ME. I think it is slightly strange that one party freely talks to me about it, yet the other party will not. I'm not judge, jury etc, just someone trying to get the truth.
And usually when something isn't freely shared, it is some sort of gag order, or there is something to hide. Agreed?
The problem still remains on certain cars, and APR has released a tool to fix the problem. Funny thing is, it is not a $50 fee that Revo posted as a fix for the problem.


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

Usually when you are directly involved with court cases, you don't talk about them








Pointing fingers again Raman? Search through all your posts and try to come up with a reason why Revo won't talk with you








It has nothing to do with ML & HS code it has to do with the Encryption Chip that APR used at that time causing a checksum.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_It has nothing to do with ML & HS code it has to do with the Encryption Chip that APR used at that time causing a checksum. 

Really, can you provide me with the post where this is said, or some other reasoning? If it is a hardware issue, why is there a software fix for it?


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
Really, can you provide me with the post where this is said, or some other reasoning? If it is a hardware issue, why is there a software fix for it?
















The software fix is for the APR hardware that was installed on the aforementioned chipped cars. 
Being that far inside APR you should know they used an encyrption board with a different chip than the stock ecu. 
One of the fixes to this solution was to pull out the encryption board, solder the OEM chip back and and reflash to DPP. That solution alone should point out where the problem lies.



_Modified by ApexTuning at 4:22 PM 7-20-2004_


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*

Funny you bring that up. I used to be on the encryption board system. I never ever had a problem with it - no errors, no codes, ever. If it is a hardware problem, I would have experienced it, correct? I never did. And I've since gone to DPP to be involved in the VTune testing, and I still have no problems.
So what gives, I should have been stricken with the problem since you propose it is a hardware issue. 
Are you not surprised that Revo offered a solution to the tune of $50 before APR even realized how widespread the problem was? Lets see - person writes code for one company, then leaves to start another company. The last code said person wrote was the exact stuff that is causing the problems. Then the person comes up with a fix - for a fee - at the other company. I'm not saying you have to agree with this view, but does it not strike you as a bit odd, maybe a bit of a coincidence?


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

Raman you have an LP ecu with different coding than a HS or ML








Either way it's APR related coding or hardware causing the issue. Stop trying to get around that. 
Revo offerered the solution becuase APR was not helping out it's customers at the time, some of them had to replace ecu's out of there own pockects and did'nt have to. 
Fixing a checksum for a Tuner should'nt be rockect science. Why would REVO fix the APR issue for free, that's why they charged $50 to fix it.


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

Raman your posts give us light into how much you actually don't know or understand about chip-tuning these cars. 
The people had left APR for quite sometime before this issue popped up. How long does APR lets it's code sit before they find issues with it? That's what you should be asking, not pointing the finger at REVO. 
Or you could ask how great a company APR is to have most of your staff leave you for another company?
It's not like APR has one version for any ecu code. Let's take the LP for example, there are several different stock codes of that ecu. 
The tuners base programming off of the stock version that's on the ECU. My car came with a stock file version 5, now it's up to version 7, which incoporates the cold-start fix that VW released. 
Did you know there are that many differences in single ecu files?
So it would be sad to say that APR did'nt update codes for the HS or ML codes for around a year. 



_Modified by ApexTuning at 4:46 PM 7-20-2004_


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_Raman your posts give us light into how much you actually don't know or understand about chip-tuning these cars. 
The people had left APR for quite sometime before this issue popped up. How long does APR lets it's code sit before they find issues with it? That's what you should be asking, not pointing the finger at REVO. 
Or you could ask how great a company APR is to have most of your staff leave you for another company?

well, which is it now, hardware or software? make a story and stick to it, please ... i'm starting to laugh about this.
i'd venture i know more about chip tuning than you do, son. and if I don't, i'm a helluva quick study. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
do yourself a favor, find out who actually wrote the HS and ML code at APR. also find out when it was released, and who worked for what company at that time. you won't believe my story, so I'll let you dig up the information youself. let us know what you find out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
well, which is it now, hardware or software? make a story and stick to it, please ... i'm starting to laugh about this.
i'd venture i know more about chip tuning than you do, son. and if I don't, i'm a helluva quick study. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Hardware or Software, the 2 go hand in hand in this instance of 16985.
You have software that is running on the hardware, both of which are APR's. Remember it's APRs software coding on there hardware board causing the issue. 
Really good to know that you know more about chiptuning than me. I'm sure you have customers that pay you to chip their cars.



_Modified by ApexTuning at 4:54 PM 7-20-2004_


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_Really good to know that you know more about chiptuning than me. I'm sure you have customers that pay you to chip their cars.


Not at all, its a hobby for me. I'm the type who shows up with a VAG to help people FOR FREE. This is all fun for me, I don't do it to put food on the table. I could walk away from this at a moment's notice, but I stick around because it is fun for me.
I guess we'll find out some of the truth in February during the lawsuit when both companies will be under oath in the courtroom. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jettasin00 (May 7, 2003)

been REVO'd for 28000 of my 29000 miles. not one problem to date.


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
Not at all, its a hobby for me. I'm the type who shows up with a VAG to help people FOR FREE. This is all fun for me, I don't do it to put food on the table. I could walk away from this at a moment's notice, but I stick around because it is fun for me.
I guess we'll find out some of the truth in February during the lawsuit when both companies will be under oath in the courtroom. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

You show up at shows? I was at Waterfest you were not around.
I've never charged a fellow enthusiast for VAG-com services. I don't do it to put food on the table either. It's all fun for me as well. 
I guess we will find out in FEB, but what's APR going to do with the patent issue


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## OneQuickDub (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: (jettasin00)*

Can't believe this thread still exists.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_
You show up at shows? I was at Waterfest you were not around.
I've never charged a fellow enthusiast for VAG-com services at a show. I don't do it to put food on the table either. It's all fun for me as well. 

I was not at Waterfest and I had no plans on going. Hot stuff in the research lab has taken most of my recent time. I'm glad you help out with a VAG, that is very nice to know. Because if anyone isn't having fun in this, time to check out and find something else.


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## Drehkraft (Mar 22, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_
The software fix is for the APR hardware that was installed on the aforementioned chipped cars. 
Being that far inside APR you should know they used an encyrption board with a different chip than the stock ecu. 
One of the fixes to this solution was to pull out the encryption board, solder the OEM chip back and and reflash to DPP. That solution alone should point out where the problem lies.

_Modified by ApexTuning at 4:22 PM 7-20-2004_

Incorrect..... The problem is in the software. You can remove the module, put a stock chip back on it and try to clear the code all day long. That code is stored elsewhere on the ECU and can not be cleared be conventional means. I tried this a long time ago, before the problem was widespread. It is simply a matter of uploading a special program to clear the code, run it (installing ECU back into car), reprogram the APR code back on to the ECU and reinstalling it again.
No need to ever remove the module.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (VWXTC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWXTC* »_
Incorrect..... The problem is in the software. You can remove the module, put a stock chip back on it and try to clear the code all day long. That code is stored elsewhere on the ECU and can not be cleared be conventional means. I tried this a long time ago, before the problem was widespread. It is simply a matter of uploading a special program to clear the code, run it (installing ECU back into car), reprogram the APR code back on to the ECU and reinstalling it again.
No need to ever remove the module. 


AMEN, and thank you!


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (VWXTC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWXTC* »_
Incorrect..... The problem is in the software. You can remove the module, put a stock chip back on it and try to clear the code all day long. That code is stored elsewhere on the ECU and can not be cleared be conventional means. I tried this a long time ago, before the problem was widespread. It is simply a matter of uploading a special program to clear the code, run it (installing ECU back into car), reprogram the APR code back on to the ECU and reinstalling it again.
No need to ever remove the module. 


Re-read my post your quoted me as saying software fix








I said *some people *were removing the module to fix. 
I also said it was a software issue. Basically to fix that issue, you have a bad ECU or improper programming. If you start to recieve cehcksum errors after you are chipped then it's probably in the software coding. Fixing the checksum in the software file can fix this issue. 
The APR hardware/software combination caused the 16985. 
You are still having to remove your ecu to re-program it. 
Kinda old technology.
Raman you should know this for a fact instead of relying on someone else's APR word














Guess if it's on the vortex it's gospel eh?


_Modified by ApexTuning at 9:25 PM 7-20-2004_


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_
Re-read my post your quoted me as saying software fix








I said *some people *were removing the module to fix. 
I also said it was a software issue. Basically to fix that issue, you have a bad ECU or improper programming. If you start to recieve cehcksum errors after you are chipped then it's probably in the software coding. Fixing the checksum in the software file can fix this issue. 
The APR hardware/software combination caused the 16985. 
You are still having to remove your ecu to re-program it. 
Kinda old technology.
Raman you should know this for a fact instead of relying on someone else's APR word














Guess if it's on the vortex it's gospel eh?

_Modified by ApexTuning at 9:25 PM 7-20-2004_

Don't bother with the bad attitude towards me. Have you bothered to find out when the HS and ML code was written, by whom, and where are those people now? You have homework son, and it is gonna be due soon.








And don't worry about the facts, I'm aware of them. I enjoy watching you switch your story as the thread progresses. First it was the encryption boards, now it is software code. Honestly, you appear to be stabbing in the dark.


_Modified by Raman Gain at 9:38 PM 7-20-2004_


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## RuffDice (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

I think this needed to be taken to the IM box awhile ago...


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
And don't worry about the facts, I'm aware of them. I enjoy watching you switch your story as the thread progresses. First it was the encryption boards, now it is software code. Honestly, you appear to be stabbing in the dark.

_Modified by Raman Gain at 9:38 PM 7-20-2004_

I've done my homework








I'm not stabbing in the dark. It's the same problem anyway you look at it. APRs Software running on APRs hardware, why is that so hard to understand ?


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_
I've done my homework








I'm not stabbing in the dark. It's the same problem anyway you look at it. APRs Software running on APRs hardware, why is that so hard to understand ?

you realize no one is questioning this, right? good, now that is understood. Care to share what you found out about the APR code for the HS and ML ECU?


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
you realize no one is questioning this, right? good, now that is understood. Care to share what you found out about the APR code for the HS and ML ECU?

It was written by an APR empolyee and wrote off as a vw coding issue for way too long.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_It was written by an APR empolyee and wrote off as a vw coding issue for way too long.

which employee? when was it written? where is this employee now?


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Raman Gain* »_
which employee? when was it written? where is this employee now?

Given their high turnover rate, who knows.. Again all specualtion and a scapegoat on APR's part.


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_
Given their high turnover rate, who knows.. Again all specualtion and a scapegoat on APR's part. 

ahh, its OK, you didn't finish your homework assignment. seriously, do yourself a favor and find out who wrote the code, when it was written, and where that person is now. when you do, let us know in this thread. you are being given an opportunity to prove it to YOURSELF. if you don't seize the opportunity, all the records and chances are nicely recorded in this thread.


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## ApexTuning (Apr 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (Raman Gain)*

Tell us Raman you are pointing the finger http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm so blessed to be given an opurtunity by Raman Gain. 
It's such an honor to have an oppurtunity given to me by a pair of ankles hangin out of APR.



_Modified by ApexTuning at 10:19 PM 7-20-2004_


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ApexTuning)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ApexTuning* »_Tell us Raman you are pointing the finger http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm so blessed to be given an opurtunity by Raman Gain. 
It's such an honor to have an oppurtunity given to me by a pair of ankles hangin out of APR.
_Modified by ApexTuning at 10:18 PM 7-20-2004_

no i won't tell you, i'm giving you the opportunity to get the information yourself. you probably don't believe a word i say, so i'm giving you the chance yourself. this thread reminds me of talking to a wall










_Modified by Raman Gain at 10:20 PM 7-20-2004_


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*(Raman Gain)(ApexTuning)*

Where's my popcorn, now this is starting to be a show. 
Lets just make sure we keep it technical so this thread doesn't get locked. There are still a lot of people who get this DTC, and find this thread informative. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (Raman Gain)(ApexTuning) (judoGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *judoGTI* »_Where's my popcorn, now this is starting to be a show. 
Lets just make sure we keep it technical so this thread doesn't get locked. There are still a lot of people who get this DTC, and find this thread informative. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif












































no doubt, i'm out for the truth as well. the clock is ticking on a homework assignment and report. i hope i'm not let down by a lack of a report.


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: (Raman Gain)(ApexTuning) (Raman Gain)*

So I got the car re-flashed yesterday at Hartmann. The procedure they use is this: they unload the chipped program, put it back to stock, and then download the new file directly from APR over the net. At least that's the version the guy gave me when I asked him.
I also asked him again about the story, and he explained how the program works on an algorithm, as just about every program does, and how it was a digit off somewhere, and eventually that makes the ECU pop a "check sum error" because it doesn't all add up. 
When I asked him where he got this info, he said from APR. No suprise there, but it does make sense to me, and I had heard rumblings associated with this issue as long ago as early last year. 
Is it the truth? Who knows, but it sounds like much more than just a coincidence








Anyway, car works fine now, no CEL, just good running.
And for the guy that chimed in about having Revo for XXX,000 miles and no problems: I've been chipped with APR for over 28,000 miles, and this is the first problem I've encountered, and it was taken care of the very next day. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by TheGreasyJap at 7:42 PM 7-22-2004_


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## gtistyle20v (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: (Raman Gain)(ApexTuning) (TheGreasyJap)*

so after 1 year i guess they are finally admitting it was the softwares fault. personally i made calls to them questioning it.. i (As im sure alot of u) made fools out of our selfs arguing and fighting with VW.
i just got in touch with my local APR vender and according to them there is a FIX and it is free of charge (covered under warrenty) i will be getting it done on sat july 31st
i would like to bad mouth APR for days simply out of frustration over the year. but in the end "HOPEFULLY" they did enough to make me happy and to pass PA's visual inspections (no CEL's present).
many people are hear to knock APR. but all i can say is that they provided me with 2yrs of complete fun! they are very reliable. and if this is the worst that the company can do.. ill be sticking with them http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
now get my V-tune working for non DPP... HS ECU thank you


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: (Raman Gain)(ApexTuning) (gtistyle20v)*

You'd think that now that they know what the culprit is, that they'd post something about the fix, instead of waiting for everybody to call them....


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## dustygti82 (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (JackP311)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1462903


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (dustygti82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dustygti82* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1462903


so u paid to have it fixed by apr dealer?








i think u guys who paid for fixes should be reimbursed


----------



## SteveOoooo (Jan 20, 2003)

*Re: (dknl)*

Here is a legitimate question that deserves an honest answer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If you use the APR Home Programmer to flash the latest .APE files onto your EMCS v2 BEFORE you get the code, will that PREVENT it???
APR?
Anyone?
TIA!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Nonlinear Optics (May 14, 2003)

*Re: (SteveOoooo)*

here is what i remember from conversations about it.
the flash to fix the code is not a file that contains the performance code. it is a separate file to fix the problem. based on this info, i would suspect your proposed method would not work.
but, call APR to find out and let us know!


----------



## SteveOoooo (Jan 20, 2003)

*Re: (Raman Gain)*

Bump for an ANSWER, not a guess, from APR themselves.








You KNOW they are reading this! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Spooled_AWP (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (SteveOoooo)*

give them a call...they will be able to give you an answer for sure! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dustygti82 (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_

so u paid to have it fixed by apr dealer?








i think u guys who paid for fixes should be reimbursed

Yeah it would be nice to see some cash since I bought a fully loaded chip...


----------



## gtistyle20v (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: (dustygti82)*

UPDATE
got the "fix" on saturday morning, put about 100 miles on since then and i have not got the check sum error / CEL 
i guess it works and u shouldnt have to pay due to its covered under the warrenty..
IF YOU HAVE THE CHCKSUM ERROR... THERE IS A FIX


----------



## HyeRollR (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (gtistyle20v)*

Bringing it to the top guys. Woke up this morning to drive to work and what do I see......CEL..... Hooked up my scanner and sure along DTC PO601 / 16985. Tried to clear but was unsuccessful, it remains in memory. APR here I come.


----------



## SteveOoooo (Jan 20, 2003)

*Re: (HyeRollR)*

Which ECU?


----------



## AkVdub (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (SteveOoooo)*

337 has ml


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## HyeRollR (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (AkVdub)*

Not sure %100 but it is a 337 as Steve posted above. Most likely they are the same as every other 337.


----------



## Spooled_AWP (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (HyeRollR)*

well...it has claimed my 02 Jetta...scanned my codes tonight and there it was...i have an HF ECU.
a few of my buddies that were there told me that APR has a "fix" to get rid of it...gonna take a trip up to my local APR rep.(APTuning) and see what they can do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: (Spooled_AWP)*

got mine fixed after one year of having it "broken". Car feels so much faster now...........


----------



## HyeRollR (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

UPDATE: Just got my car back w/APR's fix. No CEL, And gotta say the car feels much better now if not better than ever. It is way faster now and the boost is smooth and steady. Matter a fact I can even say that it is bettter than the first day I put the chipped ECU in. 2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for APR and Grand Prix in Wantagh for the quick and courteous fix.


----------



## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: (HyeRollR)*

This code just turned up on my HS box. I've set up an appointment with a local tuner on tuesday to get it fixed.. hopefully free of charge








Good thread guys..


----------



## steez (Dec 2, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (CO Boy)*

me 2


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## steez (Dec 2, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (steez)*

Without having to read through 14 pages, if you get this code what is the best way to get it resolved. 
Is paying rapid parts $80 in labor to fix this the only option for us nY'ers?


----------



## A2gtirulz (Dec 23, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (steez)*

That's allot for labor.
I paid $30 labor at NGP.
You can mail it to APR, that would be cheaper than 80 bucks.


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## GTIXpress (Sep 21, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (A2gtirulz)*

My local dealer is charging $50 to reflash the chip. This sucks that we have to pay for a glitch in their software..


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GTIXpress)*

Mine was free


----------



## White 1.8T (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

It just popped up on mine after 25,000 chipped miles. I guess I will make a trip to my local shop to see if the fix is free or not. I also don't want to read through all these pages. So . . .
Does the fix work if I'm chipped (literally) instead of DPP? Or do they need to replace the chip?


----------



## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (White 1.8T)*

In my case, they took the chip out, and put the stock one back on, then DPP the ecu.


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## White 1.8T (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*

Did it cost you labor or was that covered? 
Edit: Never mind - forgot what you wrote in your last post!


_Modified by White 1.8T at 5:51 AM 10-5-2004_


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

why doesn't APR pay for the fix?
why does it have to come out of people's pockets to have a defective product fixed?
I understand that shops have to allocate workers/time to do the flash but shouldn't APR cover that ?
Anyways, good luck to you APR fans indeed


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

So I had a physical chip in my '02 GTI...
...I got the 16985 cel...dealership replaced the computer.
...I then had to drive 200 miles and pay to have Mike in Houston DPP my car.
...Now I have cold start issues.
...APR has a new program to fix the cold start problem.
...Do I have to pay again to finally get what was paid for almost 3 years ago?

To clarify: I really appreciate Mike's help with this issue and his willingness to open on Satruday to help fix this.


_Modified by Aquaholic at 11:15 AM 10-5-2004_


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## THE CHAMP IS HERE (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (LeChefJosh)*

Mine is coming from an 03 20th I clear the code & it keeps coming back.
Stock & 93 dpp programs. Stock DV, stock airbox


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (White 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *White 1.8T* »_Does the fix work if I'm chipped (literally) instead of DPP? Or do they need to replace the chip?

i aslo have the solder in chip and it is fixable without going DPP.i had the code for almost 2 years and finally decided to get it fixed and so far its been 3 months and several k miles later and no cel http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (White 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *White 1.8T* »_Does the fix work if I'm chipped (literally) instead of DPP? Or do they need to replace the chip?

I just had my solderd unit fixed this afternoon. Boo to costing me $50 bucks for something that's not my fault.. BOO APR.. 
But yes, the fix does work with a literally chipped car.


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## THE CHAMP IS HERE (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (got_boost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *got_boost* »_
i aslo have the solder in chip and it is fixable without going DPP.i had the code for almost 2 years and finally decided to get it fixed and so far its been 3 months and several k miles later and no cel http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


What about us w/DPP how do we get rid of the cel


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## got_boost (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (THE CHAMP IS HERE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *THE CHAMP IS HERE* »_

What about us w/DPP how do we get rid of the cel

a trip to an APR rep to get reflashed,although i sent out my ecu but i had my reasons for that.


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## 02jetta1.8t (Sep 17, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (b0mbasaur)*

Add me to the list too. GTI 337, APR stock and 93, and the MIL light at 42,000 miles. The dealer tried to clear it, but it can't. I will call Jeremy at APR. It looks like we have to all do something about that.


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## gtistyle20v (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (02jetta1.8t)*

*OK PEOPLE QUIT POSTING HERE....
THERE IS A FIX!
CONTACT YOUR LOCAL APR DEALER TO GET THE FIX!
BY POSTING AND EXTENDING THIS POST THE INFORMATION ABOUT THE FIX GETS LOST *


_Quote, originally posted by *gtistyle20v* »_UPDATE
got the "fix" on saturday morning, put about 100 miles on since then and i have not got the check sum error / CEL 
i guess it works and u shouldnt have to pay due to its covered under the warrenty..
IF YOU HAVE THE CHCKSUM ERROR... THERE IS A FIX


*I'VE HAD THE FIX FOR 3 MONTHS NOW AND IM STILL FINE
ALSO I WAS TOLD THERE WAS NO CHARGE. IT WAS COVERED UNDER WARRENTY*



_Modified by gtistyle20v at 12:03 PM 10-12-2004_


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## White 1.8T (Jul 27, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (gtistyle20v)*

Relax . . . step away from the key board and release the caps lock key. Everything will be okay I promise. 
I found the information on this thread useful despite all the posts past the answer that you and others have provided. I'm sure that others will continue to find help here as well. Have a







and know that everything will be okay!


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (White 1.8T)*

I can't believe you guys have to pay for your chip to be fixed! Hartmann re-flashed mine for free back in July, and other than them screwing up the lock code on it, and me having to drive 100 miles for them to fix it at 48 mph, all has been fine.
I'd fight them on it, or at least call up APR and bitch up a storm!


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (TheGreasyJap)*

seems to me APR customers are happy enough just to have their code fixed and that they don't mind getting scr3wed again for money for the fix










_Modified by dknl at 1:10 PM 10-21-2004_


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## lynx8489 (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

yup! this just happened to me and i wanted to add my info to this thread.
2002 gti 337, apr emcs, 32,000 miles, check sum error hard code came on over this weekend. 
called apr and they have a fix ( i called before reading this thread) but now i have to pay ND 45 bucks to fix this. This is bullsh!t, i know that ND has to pay their techs for this labor, but i think apr should reimburse ND for this. this is my third apr equiped car and i will never buy an APR product again after this and some other problems i've had with them. 
great customer service/retention apr http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## steez (Dec 2, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (lynx8489)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lynx8489* »_yup! this just happened to me and i wanted to add my info to this thread.
2002 gti 337, apr emcs, 32,000 miles, check sum error hard code came on over this weekend. 
called apr and they have a fix ( i called before reading this thread) but now i have to pay ND 45 bucks to fix this. This is bullsh!t, i know that ND has to pay their techs for this labor, but i think apr should reimburse ND for this. this is my third apr equiped car and i will never buy an APR product again after this and some other problems i've had with them. 
great customer service/retention apr http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dknl* »_seems to me APR customers are happy enough just to have their code fixed and that they don't mind getting scr3wed again for money for the fix












Pull the ECU yourself and its free. thats what I do.


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## lynx8489 (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (jamesb)*

QUOTE=jamesb]

Pull the ECU yourself and its free. thats what I do.[/QUOTE]
i would love to do that but i can't lose a car for even one day with school and work.[


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## Italian GTI 1.8T (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (lynx8489)*



lynx8489 said:


> but now i have to pay ND 45 bucks to fix this.
> 
> 
> > Mine was free!!! At ND. Dont get ripped off.


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## lynx8489 (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Mod ... (Italian GTI 1.8T)*



Italian GTI 1.8T said:


> lynx8489 said:
> 
> 
> > but now i have to pay
> ...


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## inflatin (Sep 4, 2003)

I just got this code today and i found this thread. There are a lot of pages so can a nice person out there sum up in a few sentences what I can do about it? Thanks.


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: (Aquaholic)*

I got DPP'd about a month ago got a special during a vendor event in CLT.(GMP). I got 4 programs including 93 and 100 programs. I've never had a problem with the 93 program understand of course I always run 93 octane fuel with the 93 program. The first time I ran the 100 program again with 100 octane fuel I had a moderate cold start symptom. Wouldn't start after 7 seconds of cranking. Turned ignition off then back on and engine started after about 4 seconds. Since then the cold start issue on the 100 program has lessened. But, I turn the ignition on for a few seconds then off for a few seconds then engage the starter and the engine starts within 2-3 seconds and sometimes with a just slightly rough idle for 10 seconds. I don't get the instant start like I do with the stock and 93 programs but its good enough for me. 
I think my ECM may be adapting to the programing. Anyway it just keeps getting better. Since yours was on old post I'm sure you've gotten it straightened out by now.

Slickfisher


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: (slickfisher)*

ok folks, roughly 25,000 miles later and the DTC has returned. 
Has anyone who got their ECU fixed by APR had the DTC return? I was one of the first who got the fix, was curious if anyone made it past 25K after the fix.


_Modified by papasuki at 2:45 PM 1-3-2005_


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_ok folks, roughly 25,000 miles later and the DTC has returned. 
Has anyone who got their ECU fixed by APR had the DTC return? I was one of the first who got the fix, was curious if anyone made it past 25K after the fix.

_Modified by papasuki at 2:45 PM 1-3-2005_

you're f'ing kidding right?
i'm over 15k w/out the problem reocurring but this is some BS.


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## CO Boy (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: (screwball)*

Having my codes read tonight or tomorrow. Will let you know if I got it again.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

> Chip replaced in Summer 2002, car ran fine for 1 year
> April 2003 16985 appears
> June 2003 buy used HS box
> June 2003 NEW HS box hooked up to car NO CODES
> June 2003 NEW HS box chipped with APR chip
> June 2003 NEW HS box with new chip returns 16985 DTC
> BOTH ECU's RETURN 16985
UPDATE:
> July 2003, APR removed the DTC put back in car,
> December 2004 25K later DTC has returned.
I plan to email APR tomorrow to see what they have to say. I haven't been keeping up with this post so I'm not sure if authorized APR dealers can now fix this problem.


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

yes, they can. APR wrote a program to remove the problem in the ECU. i got mine done at rapid parts but i had to pay a fee for them to handle the ECU (i was not allowed to remove it myself and save $$). 
chris george was the contact i had at APR. someone mentioned jeremy in a previous post up there but that guys long gone from APR.
here's dudes email: [email protected]


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_
I plan to email APR tomorrow to see what they have to say. I haven't been keeping up with this post so I'm not sure if authorized APR dealers can now fix this problem.

Good luck emailing them. Ive emailed them several times over the last few months with no response. I'd call them if I were you.
(and that is surprising since Im trying to get info on sending them money for their STGIII+ kit.







)


_Modified by judoGTI at 3:53 PM 1-3-2005_


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## fshowcarz (Jul 29, 2004)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

i have the memory check sum... it's not an issue. check engine lights are great.


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## papasuki (Jan 19, 2000)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (fshowcarz)*

bump again.. trying to find out if anyone who recieved this fix from APR has had the problem resurface? If not, has anyone passed 25K with the fix.


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## kdub790 (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*

i just got my cel after going over 15k with dpp v2. is the fix just a relaod of the current software, or is there a new version?


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (papasuki)*


_Quote, originally posted by *papasuki* »_bump again.. trying to find out if anyone who recieved this fix from APR has had the problem resurface? If not, has anyone passed 25K with the fix.


holy isht....
did u have to pay anything to get it fixed the first time?
I hope not.
I thought it was caused by the "bad code" conspiracy theory...right








I think this thread is gonna be popping up for along time coming










_Modified by dknl at 10:20 AM 1-14-2005_


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## BananaCo (Sep 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

i received this code and i'm with APR.


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## a2gtinut (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (BananaCo)*

looks like APR is getting wrong/bad info from secret Bosch source and they (or whoever does it for them) don't know how to make this software bug free.
I know from very good source that none of the tuners do not make the software on their own. They always have somebody else helping.
The whole thing works like this:
1. Get USA spec car
2. Remove a component from circuit board and replace with hardware emulator
3. Run car on the dyno or drive around and capture data via hardware emulator.
4. Send data via email to "expert" and request what has to be done - more boost, timing, etc.
5. Software comes back and retesting cycle starts.
Bosch uses special tricks in calculating checksum to prevent people from hacking software.. These tricks CAN NOT be reverse engineered. The only way is to know somebody who made the original software.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (a2gtinut)*

so basically your stating it's not APR's fault again, right?









what's the reason now....you say it's "inside source" providing bad/wrong info??? So because of this (assuming it's true) the people who paid APR or one of their distributors to install this is not entitled to compensation for the fix because it's simply not their fault that the code was not error free?
People who shelled out money to have it fixed time and time again should not have had to pay anyone to fix it...any fees related to the fix by the distributors should have been taken up with APR.
That's what my point is....does it really matter who's fault it is? It's an APR product no matter what.....they should've compensated (free fix) for a defective product.
oh yeah.... about no one being able to reverse engineer and do all that stuff to calculate checksum because of "secret tricks" to calculate it. 
http://www.andywhittaker.com/vagfix/index.html


_Modified by dknl at 6:10 AM 2-28-2005_


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## a2gtinut (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (dknl)*

This guy is good.


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (a2gtinut)*

sorry didn't mean to come off sounding mean....








just a point for all those that have had to pay to have tuners fix this.


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## IamGoofy (Aug 6, 2002)

darn! am I lucky or what? get the code today







it seems the code will come back every 25k chipped miles even APR "fix" it?! can someone confirm this?
Mine is EMCS with V2 already.... if I ask APR to change it to DPP, will it be fixed forever??? call APR tomorrow


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## L8-APEX (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (IamGoofy)*

add me to the list o2 HS box APR multi codes but talked to apr free fix and they said it is just a nucence cannot harm car or performance and the local dealer should fix it im gunna go see them im a solderd chip buy the way


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## IamGoofy (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (L8-APEX)*

are you sure you have the same fault code (16985)? if you do and go to a vw dealer, you might end up with a new ecu (but say bye bye to the chip)... or did APR mean your "local APR dealers", not vw dealers?


_Modified by IamGoofy at 2:07 AM 4-1-2005_


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## L8-APEX (Feb 18, 2005)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (IamGoofy)*

ya APR dealer they asaid it is a apr prob nt an ecu


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## IamGoofy (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (L8-APEX)*

because I can't affort 3 days wothout my car (even I can ship the ECU to APR for free), I went to an APR local dealer today and spent $65 and 4hrs for the fix






















guess what?!! on the way home, *25* miles later, *the code was back*




























. Went back to the tunner shop again, and they spent one more hr to fix it..... so far so good......


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## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (L8-APEX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L8-APEX* »_ya APR dealer they asaid it is a apr prob nt an ecu

APR blows, at least they are bellying up to it being THEIR problem now. I got nothing but the cold shoulder when I brought this to their attention when it first came around. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## kdub790 (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

just got back from my local apr dealer and the cel is off for now...
and only *$85* for the "checksum kill" service.


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## IamGoofy (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (kdub790)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kdub790* »_only *$85* for the "checksum kill" service.









ouch! i feel you


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## JCUTHBE2 (Sep 27, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (IamGoofy)*

Add me to the list! CEL is on for the checksum error and can't be cleared with the VAG-COM. I've asked APR what I should do. 
2003 Passat 1.8t with a DA ECU module APR direct port 91 and stock.


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## GoosNit (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (JCUTHBE2)*

1st post for me here. just got my vag-com, scanned and i have 16985 bstard hiding out. i've had revo 2 years (shortly after release) and no CEL at all. Then I finally get around to a turbo-back 3" ghl to milltek c/b.... about 2k miles later get my first ever CEL (save when my coilpacks went like everyon elses).
most of these posts are with apr chips, a few revo. Why the heck would CEL only come on after about 40k miles with revo just after an exhaust? I REALLY thought my cell was cat below efficiency...surprise surprise...
I'm hoping getting revo updated flash will help, since an earlier post said they've solved it as maybe apr has too. does this check sum error in any way affect performance or is it just a bugger to get rid of?
I'll add I WAS able to clear codes, CEL went off for about 100 miles...still I figured it was d/p related. Oh well....


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## Dr. Hank McCoy (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (GoosNit)*









Hate to do this but I thought I had to! Here comes another: Got 16985 BUMP.
My 20th tossed up a CEL @ 29K miles. 27K chipped. DPP for me.
I've sat and read this whole 16 page ordeal! (Yeah, it takes an hour) Except for the bickering for 2 pages that should have been done PM'ing, I can't believe it's *16 pages long!!!!!*
It used to be a huge "joke" when it was APR v. GIAC, but seriously, from now on, if I ever see anyone debating, I'm gonna PM them w/ a link to this thread and help them decide. I might even do a "Search" every week, just to see if anyone is thinking about APR, just to tell them "NO!" (Yes, I'm "petty" like that).
At least there's supposed to be a software "fix" / patch at all of their distributor's right???? Cuz DAMN! as I've read you had to go thru a lot of S#!t when this came up earlier, especially if you were a soldered chip. ECU's are also WAAAAYY more expensive, so I'm glad it's a "patch". 
I've read EVERYTHING, and the only thing I want to say, is that if APR TRULY wanted to own up to what's happened, the downloaded "fix" should be *FREE* from the distributors too. Let them "eat" the cost. 
Why should I??? We don't pay for recalls, ya know??? We don't all have to send our cars to Auburn Hills for them to fix them. The have a network of dealerships (distributors) who fix our cars, and then they (the main office) reimburses the dealership who does the work. Right????
So, BUMP! (and I hope the "fix" works!)


----------



## VW01Wolfy (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (judoGTI)*

Yes... we suddenly evolved into a society where no one will take the blame, and every one is innocent, and in the end us little guys get screwed.


----------



## ZinK (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (VW01Wolfy)*

I have this, came on after 60,000KM of chipped fun. Kinda freaky.
I have to either ship my ECU (337 is pricey, so I insure it which costs bling) or drive 600Km to the APR dealer.
That will cost money and then to fix it will cost labour if I do not give them the ECU myself.
I know this sucks but you have to pay to play, and 80 beans in the grand scheme of things is not gunna kill ya. APR are not the ones that are charging you from what I heard, it is the dealer charging for their time. 
Life goes on. Hell, I spend an extra 80 beans in fuel every month because I am chipped and drive as such. All part of the game.
Dave


----------



## Dr. Hank McCoy (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (ZinK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZinK* »_I have this, came on after 60,000KM of chipped fun. Kinda freaky.
I have to either ship my ECU (337 is pricey, so I insure it which costs bling) or drive 600Km to the APR dealer.
That will cost money and then to fix it will cost labour if I do not give them the ECU myself.
I know this sucks but you have to pay to play, and 80 beans in the grand scheme of things is not gunna kill ya. APR are not the ones that are charging you from what I heard, it is the dealer charging for their time. 
Life goes on. Hell, I spend an extra 80 beans in fuel every month because I am chipped and drive as such. All part of the game.
Dave

Not to be a whiner, but still, on the grand scheme of things, that's "80 beans" to "play" more than most people w/ OTHER chips. But I mean, that's just less







during the week or something, I know. (My "fix" only $35 but if that's C$ I guess it's not too bad).


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (gtfli1)*

I agree it's $80 for a defective product that should be covered under warranty!!!!
Labor too.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

The options we have to resolve the checksum error are:
Return to the dealer you purchased your tuning from to have the work performed = no charge
Return your ecu to us to have the work performed = no charge
Visit any dealer that you didn't purchase from = labor
I hope this helps to clear up some of the confusion.
Keith


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The options we have to resolve the checksum error are:
Return to the dealer you purchased your tuning from to have the work performed = no charge


Since when has this EVER been an option. Every place I inquired to wanted to or did charge me.


_Modified by judoGTI at 8:22 PM 5-19-2005_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

Did you talk to your original dealer? They are all aware of this. If anyone has difficulty getting this done, they can call me and I will take care of it.


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Did you talk to your original dealer? They are all aware of this. If anyone has difficulty getting this done, they can call me and I will take care of it.

I sure did, you guys were the 'original dealer' and you guys told me to buzz off go and find a fix myself.







But this was before APR admitted they had a problem in their code.
Can I send all my receipts for reimbursement??








heh.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

how did you find a fix if we hadn't admitted it yet? then, when we did admit why didn't you call us back?


----------



## judoGTI (Mar 5, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_how did you find a fix if we hadn't admitted it yet?

New ECU.

_Quote »_ then, when we did admit why didn't you call us back?

I did, I was told about the 'new fix' and that I should take my ECU to get it reflashed (even though I already had it fixed... odd I thought). Bascially I was blown off, because I already had a new ECU, and had already PAID to have it reflashed.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

makes sense, ok. when you got the new ecu, you could have sent it here to get reflashed for free. I would assume the new ecu was covered under you warranty?


----------



## mjetta (Feb 10, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i bought my complete ecu on ebay with the apr 91 octane pragram on it and it is throwing this code, would apr fix this for me if i sent it in or would i be charged up the wazoo?


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (mjetta)*

does this problem affect your directport programming or is it lousy components during original flash that requires sending in.
crap i was thinking bout the injectors+upgrade didn't realize APR had so many issues my old b5 CH never had a problem in its life hmm.
this checksum failure doesn't permanently mark the write-once prom on the cpu itself?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (mjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mjetta* »_i bought my complete ecu on ebay with the apr 91 octane pragram on it and it is throwing this code, would apr fix this for me if i sent it in or would i be charged up the wazoo?

We have a $50 warranty transfer fee that will get you hooked up with updates, fixes and whatnot forever.










_Modified by [email protected] at 3:43 PM 5-24-2005_


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_does this problem affect your directport programming or is it lousy components during original flash that requires sending in.
crap i was thinking bout the injectors+upgrade didn't realize APR had so many issues my old b5 CH never had a problem in its life hmm.
this checksum failure doesn't permanently mark the write-once prom on the cpu itself?

The checksum error originated from a previous programmer that made an oversight in coding. The issue is not present on ANY of our software currently, old or new. The only issue is to correct the problem for customers that received their software during a certain time period.


----------



## GoosNit (Apr 12, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i know a lotta these posts are apr...a few revos in there. i found check sum error after 49k miles on ML code ecu (337) after having revo 4 bar program since april '03 soon after release...
just got the upgraded version and happy to say no cel. thought i wouldn't mind having cel on...and on...and on.... ("that's my dub") but is sux, glad revo seems to have fixed check sum in their update.
should anyone w/revo have this issue...look into updating software


----------



## blackmagicgti (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (GoosNit)*

Yes! I am in the club now too:
36,000 Miles (18,000 Chipped since last April) - DPP on 20AE GTI
16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error
P0601 - 35-00 - -
Going to get it looked at/fixed tomorrow.


----------



## bosnia19 (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (blackmagicgti)*

i have an 02 1.8t gti and the same code that you guyz are getting came onto my ecu but the problem is that i was newer chipped!!! I had a split second boost controller hooked up for a few months and then the code came up.  i took it to the dealer and they couldn't even reprogram the ecu. i want the x+ chip and i'm wondering if that would even work with this ecu and if it would fix it or do i need to get a new ecu and start all ower??
appreciate any comments
thanks


----------



## titleist1976 (Feb 25, 2002)

*Re: (bosnia19)*

This is the strangest thing to me. I've had my APR installed for over a year and never had any issue. I installed a dp, and now every day I'm having to clear this Memory Check Sum Error. I guess I'll be taking a trip down to get this resolved.


----------



## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (titleist1976)*

Me as well. Had APR DPP for about 18 months or so, just got the CEL. Scanned, and came up with this code. Cleared it and it wouldn't go away. I got re-flashed and now it's been gone for 6 days now. Weird.


----------



## blackbee (Jun 11, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

im getting the same problem. the computer is promting "Int. control module P0601 " what does this mean? i bought the car used and dont know what kind flash/ chip is in the car. any clue? i have an AWP ecu, 02 GTI 1.8T. 
no shop i seem to go to know how to get the code out! meanwhile my check engine light remains on. is changing my ECU my only option???


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Has anyone experienced this code coming back again even after the APR fix was applied? This is what happened to my ecu and I want to know if reapplying the "patch" will fix it again.


----------



## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Has anyone experienced this code coming back again even after the APR fix was applied? This is what happened to my ecu and I want to know if reapplying the "patch" will fix it again.

this did happen to me, but i was lucky enough that it happened a week before waterfest and they reflashed my ecu at the show free of charge. from what they told me i was the first for this to happen. i'm on the older soldered in chip, not DPP, but i don't know that would make any difference.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (screwball)*

Yeah I am on the older solder chip as well, not on DPP. Hopefully a reflash will fix the problem


----------



## powermaps (Sep 1, 2005)

Back to basics:
A checksum is a binary code that the ECU uses to check that the maps on the ECU are in the correct format with no missing or extra information. when you change a map using a program such as winols, you need to adjust the checksum to compensate. This is usually beyond the bounds of most serious tuners, so we normally let the program do it for us. I'm not sure which software APR use (might be RACE2000), but it is entirely possible, that they got the checksum wrong for one of the tables. The fact it only shows up occasionally is because the table the checksum relates to may be only used occasionally (possible an adaption map etc.)
Is it DEFFINATELY NOT a problem with the ECU. It is a problem with the code on the ECU. And as it is APR who have modified the code, it is there problem. 
There is no way to remove this code without reflashing the ECU. If you flash it with the same software, the the problem will happen again, it's just a question of when. 
I know a few people who used to work for APR (now work for Revo). I will have a word and see if they were aware of the issue, but didn't want to admit liability!


----------



## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (powermaps)*

'03(Manu: 2/03) AWP "LP" just got the code!
Dahlback software (soldered & encrypted) installed last summer (04).
Had APR DPP's prior to that.
current mileage: 83,800
Issues prior to code:
dead battery, used booster for a week or so.
Recall VZ & VR at dealership
after car was serviced, it seems there was a silent recall on the turn signal switch as it was making a more subdued sound.
I am guessing they tried to reflash the ECU because the CEL light was on.
The code cannot be cleared with Vag-com, however car is running fine. I reset misfire codes (dead battery...) and expect bad gas mileage for this tank as it takes a while to adapt again.
Contacted Dahlback, awaiting a reply.
Dave 
I guess this isn't just APR after all....








Dave


----------



## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (DCGULL)*

Well, Dahlback said- "Come on by, we'll remove and resolder your chip!" which they did today. However, it did NOT clear the code. The dealer denies having flashed the ECU, but it happened while in the parking lot at the dealer, AFTER the VT & VZ recall services.
So, I am going to have to buy a new ECU "LP" and get it rechipped. Or, has anyone gone to http://www.rosswhittaker.com/ bought the software and cleared this code before?
I verified that Dahlback has never had anyone, ever throw this code before. So, it looks like I'm buying an ECU.
Dave


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

Dave,
We can fix this for you. Give me a call, I'll save you some money.
Keith
800-680-7921 ext 22


----------



## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Additional news:
Gas mileage down to 25.1 MPG (365.9 miles on 14.499 gallons), prior tank: 27.1 MPG (362 miles on 13.374 gallons), prior tank 29.9 MPG (code had been thrown though?)
Ran SeaFoam through fuel tank (almost without gas!) under high RPM and loaded up the turbo too and put in 12 oz with 14.5 gallon fill up. Hoping it was carbon build up, but doubt it since I had been running LucasOil Upper Cylinder Lubricant consistently for the last 10- 12 tanks.
Dave
P.S. Called Keith, left message. IM'd Keith no response...


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## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: (DCGULL)*

Keith offered to "fix" the ECU if I put the stock or APR chip back on the ECU prior to shipping? All I'll have to pay for is shipping (and a rental car!)
However, that is a pretty stellar response considering that I am running a Dahlback chip (soldered).
Lots of APR bashing early in this thread, and I hope that this kind of response will reduce it. I'm impressed with that kind of offer. They had no desire to see or even know about the other chip either.
Go APR!
Dave


----------



## dustygti82 (Jan 13, 2003)

*Re: (DCGULL)*

I switched to revo BT and I haven't seen the check sum error codes since I had APR which was 3 months ago... Just thought some peeps would like to know


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## RedHeadedWoman (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: (dustygti82)*

Just recently sent my ECU back in for APR to correct this issue. I got it back , reinstalled and the CEL went away, but then it came back on a few days later (per usual). Supposedly they updated the software to the latest rev but I will be giving them a call tommorow to try and figure out wth is going on!


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## secretaznman (Aug 28, 2002)

*Re: (RedHeadedWoman)*

Add another victim to the list!















18,xxx miles, soldered in chip for about 13,xxxmiles. APR 91/stock
CEL poped up last night and scanned this morning with the P0601. I cleared it and drove home and the CEL stayed off. Can I expect it to come back on shortly? From what I skimmed through, looks like I will have to fork out more dough just to have this fixed? This is such a pain right now as I don't even have time to wash my car, because of classes, and now I have to reseach this problem and get it fixed.

















_Modified by secretaznman at 11:20 AM 10-23-2005_


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## scr2000 (Jan 3, 2000)

*another victim*

2002 AWP GTi.
Been chipped for about 29,000 miles and just got the CEL. Checked with a VAG tool and saw the 16985. Thing is, the shop that did the chip ("Motopersona" Lombard, IL) has closed shop







Looks like i have to pull the ecu and send it in. crap.


_Modified by scr2000 at 7:20 AM 11-8-2005_


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## blackman'sVW (May 6, 2003)

*Re: another victim (scr2000)*

Keith, IM'ed you. E-mail me back.


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## illcookyourrice (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: another victim (blackman'sVW)*

Hey Keith I paid 60$ for my ecu to get fix a while back at New Demensions (origial then dealer) , does that mean I get my money back from you? since you said it should be free?


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## VWTornado (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: Have you received DTC: 16985 - Internal Control Module: Memory Check Sum Error (got_boost)*

I just got this code myself. 2002 GTI 337, AWP, APR chip w/ stock, 93 and 100 programs.


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## Aquaholic (Apr 16, 2003)

I had to go to the dealer for a new computer...then pay BAR tuning (the original chip istaller) $100 to DPP my new ECU.
Keith...does this mean I get my money back?


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## crazydriver (Mar 14, 2003)

*Re: (Crzypdilly)*

I've been chipped on APR for 40,000 miles. Just got the memory error two weeks ago. 
So reflashing the ECU should get rid of the code??


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: (crazydriver)*

The drama never ends!
I had this error last summer (04), and had to drive up to Hartmann Motorsports in Irvine from San Diego to get it fixed (subsequently had to drive up there in VALET mode after they screwed up my lockout code), today it CAME BACk!!! 
I'm calling Hartmann in the morning, as I'm up in LA on business; if they give me any lip, I'm ditching APR and my plans for a K04 and going to REVO.
Way to go guys, nice FIX.


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: (Crzypdilly)*

I called them all morning, and they never returned a call. I called APR, even they couldn't get a hold of them. Heck, even the APR dealer in San Diego wouldn't answer or return calls! 
I finally stopped by Hartmann on the way back down to SD, and they were there; busy doing end of year financials albeit. 
Anyway, Scott Hartmann helped me personally, he re flashed my ECU, and it's gone....for now. Neither of us is sure why it came back. Either the last guy that did it (a bit of a muppet) may have just reprogrammed it with the old program, or it might be a bad ECU, as APR claims it may be...although others disagree.
On a personal note, I must say that Scott Hartmann was great to deal with, very smart, very helpful, and apologetic, even though we're not sure why the error came back. Kudos to him.
I dunno, but the next time I have ANY problems with this program, it's most likely going to be sold for a very small fee (shipping)...and then I dunno what.










_Modified by TheGreasyJap at 4:40 PM 12-31-2005_


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## GREGSGTI 1.8T (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (TheGreasyJap)*

50,000 miles( AWP 2002) now Check sum error back for the second time.
Contacted APR they will attempt time number 2 for error erase.








just burns me to send my ECU in again and spend 35 bucks shipping


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: (GREGSGTI 1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GREGSGTI 1.8T* »_50,000 miles( AWP 2002) now Check sum error back for the second time.
Contacted APR they will attempt time number 2 for error erase.








just burns me to send my ECU in again and spend 35 bucks shipping

I wish somebody could prove what the cause of the problem is; VW/APR/other....


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## trogdor337 (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: (TheGreasyJap)*

337 GTI. Used ECU from another 337. Had the APR chip upgraded to the new software and now Im getting the damned code. My back hurts, hands are scratched and Im pissed. Whats the problem. APR says that will fix it for free but I pay shipping!


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## memberkgb (Apr 22, 2004)

*Re: (trogdor337)*

WTF I have had this code for like a year already! I heard from someone that it doenst effect performance, thats it, APR is getting a call tomorow


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## supra1641 (Jun 21, 1999)

*Re: (memberkgb)*

This may be old news but after being chipped I had code P0601. I did some research and called my local APR dealer. They flashed me with a "Check Sum fix" s/w from APR and then re-flashed me to have my 93 oct and stock programming. Cost $54 labor and it appears to be fixed.


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## vio (May 12, 2003)

*Re: (supra1641)*

I had my Check sum fixed a year ago by upgrading to version 2 but it has returned. Is there a version 3 that came out recently? Beginning to think APR has some code Herpes that my car caught.


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## TheGreasyJap (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: (vio)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vio* »_I had my Check sum fixed a year ago by upgrading to version 2 but it has returned. Is there a version 3 that came out recently? Beginning to think APR has some code Herpes that my car caught.









Well, it's almost the end of the year, so I"m expecting my annual visit from the CheckSum Error fairy....


----------



## vio (May 12, 2003)

*Re: (TheGreasyJap)*

I'm taking a trip to a dealer in NY to "fix" the problem as per APR's advice. They are aware that I had this problem before and had it return but swore this time things will be fine. .....we'll see


----------



## wolfcastle (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: (vio)*

Has any progress been made since the last time this thread was alive?
Has APR made a more permanante fix?


----------



## GeeTeeIzzle (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (wolfcastle)*

if it helps at all, i spoke with [email protected] and he explained everything to me. seems like all the ecu with their flash had some type of faulty coding. they figured out where the coding had gone wrong and were able to fix it. give them a call to get a better explanation first hand. they're very friendly and willing to help out.


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## wolfcastle (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: (GeeTeeIzzle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GeeTeeIzzle* »_if it helps at all, i spoke with [email protected] and he explained everything to me. seems like all the ecu with their flash had some type of faulty coding. they figured out where the coding had gone wrong and were able to fix it. give them a call to get a better explanation first hand. they're very friendly and willing to help out.

Yeah...had my car chipped about a year ago and i got the check sum after installing exhaust this week. Came on about 10-15 miles after instalation. Thought i had a cat deficency code but it turned to be a check sum. Went to my local APR distributer and he reflashed my ECU. Check sum is gone i just hope it stays gone. I am anal about my car and won't drive it with a CEL like many others will.


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## JScerbo13 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: (wolfcastle)*

I've been battling with tryin to get my car through inspection but here in NJ i have to pass emmisions and i have so many codes.
16985 ECU defective
16795 Secondary Air Injection System faulty flow
16687 Cylinder 3 missfire
16688 Cylinder 4 missfire
2002 gti 1.8t- apr 93 oct chip w/ vtune (not to sure what that is i bought the car chipped) , 3"TB, abd intake manifold, forge 007 dv, samco tip. 
I recently changed all spark plugs and coil packs and fuel filter so i dont understand why it is still missfiring. This is my daily driver so i cant send my ecu out to apr if that is what is needed. Any other information or help?


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## Angina (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: (JScerbo13)*

So I have a 2002 Jetta AWP, and had it chipped at APTuning with APR chip. I got the 16985 code around 2004, and had it fixed by APTuning.
Fast forward 4 more years, 115,000 miles, some accidents, flood damage, and running stock mode for those 4 years...
I've had some CELs thrown on my ECU, and the 16985 code is back. I can't say exactly how long it was before it came back, since I started ignoring all my engine lights, and I had a PA inspection hookup who didn't care about the CELs. Now I don't have the hookup, and need an inspection, but the car won't pass without clearing these codes.
I don't care about running my car in chipped mode, and just want my car to pass inpections. If I want the APR fix, I'll have to either ship them my ECU, or travel 60 miles to have it fixed for $50 or something. Should I just get a used stock ECU for $100 or get the APR fix again?


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## dknl (Jul 1, 2002)

it still shocks me how this is still happening


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## Old Dude GTI (Dec 25, 2007)

I got my 2002 GTI chipped by APTuning in 2003. Can't remember when it was, but I got a checksum error and had to take it back for a reflash. Also got the new cold start program. Haven't had a problem since (knocks on wood).


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## Angina (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: (Old Dude GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Old Dude GTI* »_I got my 2002 GTI chipped by APTuning in 2003. Can't remember when it was, but I got a checksum error and had to take it back for a reflash. Also got the new cold start program. Haven't had a problem since (knocks on wood).

whats the cold start program?
I haven't turned on the 93 octane mode in ages..every time I run it, it seems like one of my coilpacks go bad. My car is such a mess since the subframe is all bent up and since it hydrolocked a couple years ago. Im just hoping to get past inspections and drive it for another year before I throw it off a bridge


----------



## sle39lvr (Sep 11, 2006)

*Re: (Angina)*

Can car stall due to this error? APR 93, and car stalls with code check sum uneraseable...


----------



## AWPGTI (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: (sle39lvr)*

just got this code the other day after about 30,000 miles contacted keith2apr havent heard from him after he asked where i got the chip from.......so what the fix a new software update???


----------



## Guyver96 (Jan 17, 2007)

*Re: (AWPGTI)*

Wow previous poster never got an answer so hope this brings this back cause im sure ppl are still geting this as i just got it 3 days ago... I just cleared all dtcs with vag com and hope that when i go out it doesnt come back... 
Anyone figure out why this happens or how to get rid of it...?


----------



## Mega1206 (Oct 1, 2004)

*Re: (Guyver96)*

Wow i can't believe this is really happening for so many APR users.... From what i understand this can be fixed by APR Right???? I have 2002 337 and just got this problem...... And yeah i got flashed by APR....... 

_Modified by Mega1206 at 12:53 AM 6-13-2009_


_Modified by Mega1206 at 12:57 AM 6-13-2009_


----------



## drew80a (Feb 26, 2002)

*Re: (Mega1206)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mega1206* »_Wow i can't believe this is really happening for so many APR users.... From what i understand this can be fixed by APR Right???? I have 2002 337 and just got this problem...... And yeah i got flashed by APR....... 

Yah, got my ECU reflashed with a newer version and it took away the code. Mine happened about 2 months ago.


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## ohcaptainobvious (Mar 2, 2008)

So this code just came up on my beetle. The problem is, I don't know if my car is chipped or not. My friend told me if it's not chipped, getting a soldered chip will fix the problem rather than replacing the ECU. I know hooking up a boost gauge is the best way to tell if your chipped or not, but is there any other way?


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## TcoloT (Apr 12, 2005)

another new member of the club, so in this case i lost cruise control (i dont be able to swtich programs and set speed either), and Climatronic








SEAT TOLEDO 2003, AUQ APR Chipped, it could be a problem on the first´s motronic ecu?


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## Crasher (Oct 19, 2003)

*Re: (TcoloT)*

My Octavia did this tonight on the way home, ECU 06A 906 032 HN. It is APR remapped with four programs, stock, 95, 98 and valet so it looks like I will be re-installing the software in the hope it cures it or it is new ECU time.


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## CanadianVdub (Jul 18, 2007)

Can any serious problems occur if this isn't resolved? The car absolutely runs fine. I will of course have it corrected, but in the mean time, should I be concerned?


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## jtair32 (May 14, 2009)

*dtc: 0601*

I have just recently had this error. I have not attemted to clear the codes. Am also wondering if this will cause any future damage to the engine. It is currently running just fine.

Awp 1.8t/ apr dpp stock-91-93-100 modes


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## GTI71806 (Jun 26, 2008)

i have the same code as everyone else on here. and all im wondering is if i can have my car emissions done and have it pass. idc that i have the code. i just want to pass emmisions, will this alter the outcome for me?


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## capnhank (Nov 2, 2009)

*P0601*

What's the latest on the fix for this code? My car started displaying this code last week. I have had APR stage 1 for 2 years.


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

The car will need to be re-flashed by APR or another software tuning company that does not have this issue (I have only heard of this problem with APR tunes). That is the only way.


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## koccorey (Jun 15, 2010)

I've had this happen to me twice. I got chipped at eurocode with the APR stage 2 software in 2008 then in 2010 I got the "check sum memory" code. Long story short I ended up having to get a another computer. Well recently in 2012 the code came back on this computer now. Eurocode contacted APR and they gave them instructions for the fix and they did it. Well after driving 100 miles my engine light just came back on, I'm hoping it's not that code again and something that can be fixed easily because I'm due for a smog. I'm gonna scan it and see what code comes up.


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

Could you let us know what the problem end up being?


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## koccorey (Jun 15, 2010)

Dubmekanik said:


> Could you let us know what the problem end up being?


Will do.


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## burkechrs1 (Dec 1, 2008)

That happened to me a couple years ago and I had the dealership update my ecu with the newest software. Never came back since. Been on stock tune, revo stage 2 as well has uni stage 2


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## koccorey (Jun 15, 2010)

Dubmekanik said:


> Could you let us know what the problem end up being?



Scanned my car and it turns out the check sum error code is gone however now 3 codes popped up after driving just over 100 miles. They are P1296/cooling system malfunction, P0441/evaporative emission system incorrect purge flow and P0171/system too lean bank 1. 
Before Eurocode fixed the check sum error the only other code I had was P1296/cooling system malfunction so I changed out the temp sensor. Is anyone familiar with these codes? I need to get smogged asap.


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## koccorey (Jun 15, 2010)

I found the problem to the P0441 & P0171 codes. I have a torn hose that comes out of the bottom of the intake manifold (small L hose) so should be an easy fix. I'll just have to check my thermostat for the P1296 code since I already replaced the sensor. I'll also do a pressure test to see if I have any other leaks. The memory check sum code hasn't come back so far.


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## koccorey (Jun 15, 2010)

burkechrs1 said:


> That happened to me a couple years ago and I had the dealership update my ecu with the newest software. Never came back since. Been on stock tune, revo stage 2 as well has uni stage 2


Are you saying that you have Revo and Unitronic software on the same computer?


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## koccorey (Jun 15, 2010)

koccorey said:


> I found the problem to the P0441 & P0171 codes. I have a torn hose that comes out of the bottom of the intake manifold (small L hose) so should be an easy fix. I'll just have to check my thermostat for the P1296 code since I already replaced the sensor. I'll also do a pressure test to see if I have any other leaks. The memory check sum code hasn't come back so far.


Well it's been about 500 miles since the APR memory check sum error code fix and 200 miles since I fixed the leaking pcv hose and no codes so far so I would say it's fixed. 

For anyone with this code you should take your car back to where ever you had the car chipped and tell them about this thread so they can contact APR to get instructions on the fix.


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## transient_analysis (Jan 28, 2003)

Another casualty of the checksum error.

Old HS ECU with the early early solder-on daughter board APR programming. Showed up at 168k (about 80k of those used this APR chip, the rest was Uni/Revo and bigger turbos).

Gonna check with APR to see what they do these days.


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