# APR K04 Build experience 2012 GLI bad software?



## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I took my list and car to Double J Motorwerks in Portland. They did a great job putting the below together in very quick time:

2012 GLI: Volkswagen Racing Intake/Induktion Motorsports pipe. APR Stage III K04 kit, S3 FMIC, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Dual Borla exhaust, H&R Springs

Joey took great care to make sure everything was right. We ran the car a few times and noticed some misfires. After agreeing to take it easy on the car I took it home for the weekend where I experienced more misfires, all the way to the point of disabled cylinders. 

It was suggested that the plugs be regapped; still problems.

Swap plugs with $13 a piece NGKs; no change. 

The hardware is all VW/Audi, and the engine has only 1600 miles on it so it's not a hardware issue. We know there's plenty of air and compression so that leaves just fuel or spark as the culprit. It runs ok at lower RPMs with random single misfires, but under load or above about 4k bad things start to happen.

It seems to me that the software isn't figure out quite yet. I'm royally disappointed; I chose APR because they are a world dominate programmer for VW/Audi. They have been alerted to the problem, so the ball is in their court now. We'll see if APR remembers the Volk in Volkswagen.

Thanks to Josh at TT for the quick exhaust build and Joey and the team at DJM for transforming my car so quickly.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I took my list and car to Double J Motorwerks in Portland. They did a great job putting the below together in very quick time:
> 
> 2012 GLI: Volkswagen Racing Intake/Induktion Motorsports pipe. APR Stage III K04 kit, S3 FMIC, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Dual Borla exhaust, H&R Springs
> 
> ...


I remember someone used different spark plugs and had problems with their kit too. I can't find the thread, but the person swapped them back and supposedly fixed the problem.

Hopefully APR will chime in because I'm ready to order the APR K04 too for my '12 GLI.


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## davesxx01 (Aug 24, 2010)

Sounds like coils, not plugs. Or at least electricial related. I'm still on my stock plugs with 20k on my K04. 34K total miles on my car, no misfires.


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

Sounds to me like a hardware issue. Not sure why you're so quick to point the finger at APR, aside from asking for support.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

davesxx01 said:


> Sounds like coils, not plugs. Or at least electricial related. I'm still on my stock plugs with 20k on my K04. 34K total miles on my car, no misfires.


Make sure those coils are snapped in. They do have tendencies to pop out here and there.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Everything has been checked and double checked. I pointed the finger because it's a brand new car. New components professionally installed, so hardware is all 1,600 miles or younger. There were no ignition problems before the upgrade. I hope someone from APR can get on here and let me know what's going on.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Everything has been checked and double checked. I pointed the finger because it's a brand new car. New components professionally installed, so hardware is all 1,600 miles or younger. There were no ignition problems before the upgrade. I hope someone from APR can get on here and let me know what's going on.


www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php


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## davesxx01 (Aug 24, 2010)

Yep, do a datalog and send it in. Some of the APR guys are in the UK for a big GTG now but I'm guessing they will be back next week so don't expect an immediate reply. 

It really does not matter how many miles are on your car either. Ran perfect before you had work done and mis fires after? Hardware or install problem. The place you had it installed at may be a great place but a harness bumped or slightly loose is all it takes. 
What codes is it throwing, mis fire in one cylinder only or multiple? 
You can go back and re check the right file was downloaded into your ECU also. Or see if someone at APR can pull you up and see what file was down loaded from them. 

Call their tech support, your receipt should have the file # from APR.


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

This probably isn't the problem, but you are running a 2.5" downpipe on software that calls for 3". Check for boost leaks on the hoses for the S3 and everywhere else (an actual leak test, no just listening while at idle or looking at a vag-com....pressurize the system and listen or do a smoke test). Make sure MAF is in the correct orientation and plugged in securly. What are the plugs gapped at? Whcih plugs? O2 sensors in the correct loacation and/or connected to the right plugs? You dissassembled all of this during the build, so guaranteed one of these is an issue. And once again...why run a smaller downpipe than the software called for?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

So data logs were performed and it was apparent that there's not enough fuel beginning about 4500ish rpm and leaning further as the tac climbs.


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## davesxx01 (Aug 24, 2010)

Post the log.


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

This makes me think one of your O2 sensors was messed up during the install.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

If it was the o2 sensors I'd have problems all the time. The car runs pretty good under 4k.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Thanks to those who have sent me PMs with similar experiences with this kit on 2012 GLIs. Anyone have any real solutions?


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Thanks to those who have sent me PMs with similar experiences with this kit on 2012 GLIs. Anyone have any real solutions?


 Did you scan your car for codes? Go to the dealership or get an OBD-II reader to see any codes. Do it even if the CEL is not being displayed.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Yep, scanned beyond just OBD II. VW has many more codes that can not be pulled with just OBD II. VCDS/VAG-COM is how we knew it was misfiring and shutting down cylinders. Not a fun thing to see on your one-month-old car. 

I've also had issues with it hunting for idle occasionally, mostly during a warm start-up. Anyone else experience this?


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Yep, scanned beyond just OBD II. VW has many more codes that can not be pulled with just OBD II. VCDS/VAG-COM is how we knew it was misfiring and shutting down cylinders. Not a fun thing to see on your one-month-old car.
> 
> I've also had issues with it hunting for idle occasionally, mostly during a warm start-up. Anyone else experience this?





Schrottplatzer said:


> Yep, scanned beyond just OBD II. VW has many more codes that can not be pulled with just OBD II. VCDS/VAG-COM is how we knew it was misfiring and shutting down cylinders. Not a fun thing to see on your one-month-old car.
> 
> I've also had issues with it hunting for idle occasionally, mostly during a warm start-up. Anyone else experience this?


 You are going to start having to eliminate all the changes made. I think #3 in the list could be the culprit. I would start with the following in this order: 



Flashing the car back to stock to rule out software. 


Boost gauge install to check vacuum at idle. (indicate leaks) 


MAF troubleshooting. Do me a favor. With the car not running, unplug the maf sensor and then start the car. Tell me how it runs. This will force the ECU to run at default mappings. 


Go over the hardware install to make sure everything is installed correctly. This part people are reluctant to do because they trust their installer but mistakes happen. Are you using stock plugs? If not, go back to the *stock plugs with the recommended gap* before trying to remove any part of the kit. 

 


Do not rule anything out or try to blame the kit or installers. This will leave you frustrated and bitter. Remember, you made a lot of changes to the car and things like this can and will happen. Good luck to you, and we all will try to brainstorm with you to find a solution :thumbup:.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Thanks for the tip. I'm not blaming anyone, just declaring an issue and looking for help. From the data everything is fine until I hit about 4500rpm. Driving it feels fine until 4500 rpm. VCDS showed it going too lean starting at that point. One would think that if anything else was wrong it would have problems all the time. The only other symptom is that the engine hunts for a little bit during a warm startup.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

Just based on past experience from my 1.8t days, under certain rpms and loads, the ecu will use different sensors for thr a/f mix. My suggestion.. make sure the 02 sensors arent throwing codes and are in thier correct locations , no spacers etc. just my .02 , theres a ton of ko4's running around successfully, im sure we'll get this figured out.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

sh{}e said:


> Go over the hardware install to make sure everything is installed correctly. This part people are reluctant to do because they trust their installer but mistakes happen.* Are you using stock plugs? If not, go back to the stock plugs with the recommended gap before trying to remove any part of the kit.*


 This x2
People are used to changing out plugs on older Turbo cars. For our cars stock plugs work just fine. Only change them to something different unless your NEED to (I believe APR Stage 3 kits use different plugs).

Also double check the install as was noted. Its easy to miss something such as a leak or a bolt not being tightened down or a plug not plugged in al lthe way.


You also mention a missfires, what cylinders have missfires? Every time is it a specific cylinder or two or three? If so try swapping coilplugs with a cylinder having the issue and one that does not then run more logs and see if the missfire changed to a different cylinder.


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## DjSherif (Apr 27, 2005)

I had some teething problems with my K04 as well. Some of it due to the install and some of it to do with the Coil packs. 

But the car is running super smooth and I have about 15,000 miles on my kit.


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## jm6001 (Oct 9, 2009)

I have a 2010 GTI that occasionally has problems starting and its stock software wise, but has intake downpipe and intercooler... I have pretty much narrowed it down to being a problem with the LPFP.. Unfortunately our cars do not have a sensor on the low pressure side of things so there would be no codes for the LPFP itself..


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

From what I've learned the GLI computer is set up a little different than the GTI, and 2012 is different than previous years. I guess I'm one of the guinea pigs for a new form of software. I've had more than a couple PMs of people with the same kit, on the same car, with the same problem. APR please help!


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> From what I've learned the GLI computer is set up a little different than the GTI, and 2012 is different than previous years. I guess I'm one of the guinea pigs for a new form of software. I've had more than a couple PMs of people with the same kit, on the same car, with the same problem. APR please help!


 Can these people chime in then or post logs? I'm getting this kit and want to know of these issues since this kit is known for OEM reliability. By the way, did you go back to the stock plugs?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I've still got the NGKs in, it runs fine under 4500 rpms, and I drive this car to work etc so I'm afraid to make any changes. So as not to flood the forum I cut a few of the misfire logs 

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
P0300 - 000 - 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 01100000 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 1 
Mileage: 2910 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2002.14.12 
Time: 12:44:03 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 6749 /min 
Load: 92.5 % 
Speed: 95.0 km/h 
Temperature: 99.0°C 
Temperature: 33.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar 
Voltage: 13.716 V 

000771 - Cylinder 3 
P0303 - 000 - Misfire Detected 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 01100000 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 1 
Mileage: 2910 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2002.14.12 
Time: 12:44:03 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 6749 /min 
Load: 92.5 % 
Speed: 95.0 km/h 
Temperature: 99.0°C 
Temperature: 33.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar 
Voltage: 13.716 V 

000770 - Cylinder 2 
P0302 - 000 - Misfire Detected 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 01100000 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 1 
Mileage: 2910 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2002.14.12 
Time: 12:44:03 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 6749 /min 
Load: 92.5 % 
Speed: 95.0 km/h 
Temperature: 99.0°C 
Temperature: 33.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar 
Voltage: 13.716 V 

004874 - Cylinder Disabling 
P130A - 000 - - MIL ON 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 11100000 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 1 
Mileage: 2910 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2002.14.12 
Time: 12:44:04 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 4981 /min 
Load: 99.6 % 
Speed: 103.0 km/h 
Temperature: 99.0°C 
Temperature: 34.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar 
Voltage: 13.716 V


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

If the same cylinders are misfiring then the injectors on those two are bad. Since this is such a new car then don't swap out the injectors until you go back to the stock plugs. I would recommend changing the plugs because our cars do not like different plugs unless they are accounted for in the kit, which they are not. I know I have been preaching about the stock plugs, but I know from experience how finicky these cars are when changing them. 

The main culprits for misfires are: 
1. Coil packs 
2. Spark Plugs 
3. Injectors 
4. Faulty O2 sensors. 
5. Possibly the APR flash on the car.


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

I had a similar problem on my 2010 GTI after the Ko4 install. It was a bad coil pack. Car ran fine the night I took it home, drove to work the next morning and same problem as you. Misfires, cylinder disable etc. bad #2 coil pack. I replaced all four and have 3 spares.fixed it right up. the hunting for idle is more than likely the ecu doing adaptation since that was wiped out during the ecu flash. How far will it go at light load without misfiring?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

It's not the coil packs, or any other hardware issue. I have no issues under 4000rpm. VCDS shows that it is running too lean above 4500rpm.


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> It's not the coil packs, or any other hardware issue. I have no issues under 4000rpm. VCDS shows that it is running too lean above 4500rpm.


 If you someohow know its not your coilpacks or any other hardware issue why did you make a thread? If your so sure that it is software then why dont you contact your nearest dealer or APR to sort the issue? APR or a dealer is not going to fix your "software issue" over the internet. Alot of people in this thread are throwing out very good tips and helpful info and you dont seem to wanna hear any of it.


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

my guess is the ecu is trying to do its job. it sees a big spike in unburned fuel via 02 sensor(rich condition) and starts to lean the mixture out to get it under control, it figures out that it cant and disables the cylinder(s) to save the motor from damage. under 4000 you arent loading it enough to make the spark in the affected cylinder blow out. all your vcds logs you posted all look like bad coil pack 1600 miles or not. what does the injector pulse width on all 4 cylinders look like at the time this happens? or the fuel pressure? just fyi 4500 rpm is close to max torque and boost so maybe.............. 
im not trying to be a douche here, but spend the $25 and replace a coil.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Branman said:


> If you someohow know its not your coilpacks or any other hardware issue why did you make a thread? If your so sure that it is software then why dont you contact your nearest dealer or APR to sort the issue? APR or a dealer is not going to fix your "software issue" over the internet. Alot of people in this thread are throwing out very good tips and helpful info and you dont seem to wanna hear any of it.


 I posted to see if anyone else has had this issue. New computer type on a new model car on an slightly different variant of the TSI-- I don't expect the software to be flawless, but I'd like to know what other people have done if they had this issue because APR has been silent. I have been working with the local distributor and they haven't answered him yet either. This is the least support I've ever had for such a purchase. Heck, I've had better customer support for $25 purchases. 

Bottom line is I don't want to damage my car, but need to drive it daily. I also don't want to throw parts at it and add to the variables. Is it wrong to want to enjoy a car that you just spent a ton of money acquiring and building? I'm no rich kid, I'm a Soldier who spent considerable time saving the money for this.


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

Have you put the car back in stock mode assuming you have a fully loaded ecu? If so does it still present the same issues? Don't get stuck in one place trying to troubleshoot this. You should approach other angles besides bad software. At the very least you should do as someone else here mentioned and move the coils in the two cylinders that are misfiring to the other two positions and see if the misfires follow. That is a clear indicator the coil(s) are failing at high rpm/load. If you or the shop has already done all this then i understand your frustration, but the main APR guys were all in the Uk so that may explain why they haven't been available to help yet. Would be interesting to see the logs that were run not just the codes thrown.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I posted to see if anyone else has had this issue. New computer type on a new model car on an slightly different variant of the TSI-- I don't expect the software to be flawless, but I'd like to know what other people have done if they had this issue because APR has been silent. I have been working with the local distributor and they haven't answered him yet either. This is the least support I've ever had for such a purchase. Heck, I've had better customer support for $25 purchases.
> 
> Bottom line is I don't want to damage my car, but need to drive it daily. I also don't want to throw parts at it and add to the variables. Is it wrong to want to enjoy a car that you just spent a ton of money acquiring and building? I'm no rich kid, I'm a Soldier who spent considerable time saving the money for this.


 Half the people in this thread say to take the easy and most logical step to troubleshoot your car, yet you dont listen to us.
Have fun continuing to blame the software.
Im out


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry, I was out of the country when you sent me a PM. 

If you give us a call we will have you run data logs, check out the logs and see if we can point to the issue. Usually it's spark or fuel related (Spark Plugs, Coil Packs, Injectors, Etc). 

334 502 5181 




--------- 

*UPDATE TO ANYONE READING THIS THREAD - December 7th, 2012* 

Official threads 

Here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat) 
Here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat) 


*Background:* 

Recently it has come to APR’s attention some 2.0 TSI EA888 vehicles equipped with K04 turbochargers and APR K04 software are experiencing misfires in the upper RPM range. Documented cases primarily exist on newer MK6 GLIs, CCs and Passats with MED 17.5.2 ECUs. However, some customers with nearly identical setups and identical software on these same platforms and others are not experiencing issues. 

*Diagnosis:* 

APR’s Engineers have spent countless hours diagnosing vehicles through both hardware and software analysis. Ultimately it was discovered that vehicles experiencing misfires were equipped with weaker exhaust valve springs from the factory. In fact, these weaker springs show roughly 10% less stiffness as shown on a spring dynamometer. These vehicles have identical Engine codes and exhaust valve part numbers as those with the proper valves. Unfortunately VW’s dealership parts system (ETKA) does not indicate a part change. Furthermore, APR has had a test vehicle in house for over a month with this issue. The issue was repeatable by anyone who drove the car. Since changing the springs to the appropriate stiffness the car has not experienced a single misfire on the production V2.0 calibration. 

The photo below illustrates known good vs known bad factory valve springs. 










The issue occurs when exhaust backpressure (coupled with the natural forces in a valve train) is high enough to cause the exhaust valves to stay open during the intake stroke. During this time, the intake valves are open and exhaust pressure is flowing back through the intake and into the intake manifold. In doing so, data will show a false rise in boost pressure and a corresponding drop in mass airflow. The car will then cease to accelerate, will eventually blink the Check Engine Light, disable the cylinder and throw the car into limp mode with a fault code for misfires. 

In all cases we’ve seen these problems will not exist at stock output levels, or even at Stage 1 or 2 power levels due to lower exhaust backpressure. Furthermore, Stage 3 and 3+ vehicles are not experiencing these issues to date. This may sounds odd but the reason is simple. Stage 3 consists of a significantly larger manifold, turbine wheel, and wastegate therefore reducing the backpressure one would see with a high output K04. 

The issues these vehicles have faced are very similar to one existing on some Audi S3 and TTS vehicles in the past. Ultimately it was determined by Audi the valve springs were weak enough to cause issues even on completely stock vehicles, so Audi released a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) advising dealerships how to replace the problematic parts. 

*Solutions:* 

The primary solution to this issue is to replace the valve springs with a set of higher rated springs. The problematic vehicle we diagnosed in house received new valve springs and the issue completely disappeared with NO changes to the existing APR K04 MED17.5.2 software. 

A secondary workaround to this issue is a software file that reduces engine output in the upper RPM range ultimately reducing back pressure. Peak torque remains consistent between the old and new software so despite having lower output, the vehicle still feels fast. This software can be made available upon request. 

*Home Diagnosis:* 

We are not stating that ALL misfires on every K04 car are caused by exhaust valve spring issues. As you all know, there are many possible sources for engine misfire. Some examples include: bad coil packs, fouled spark plugs, faulty fuel delivery systems, etc. This failure mode happens in a specific way that typically involves having misfire that is localized to Cylinder #3 (sometimes Cylinder #2) in the upper RPM band. The car will typically cease to accelerate once the problem is encountered. 

Before concluding you may have weak exhaust valve springs, you should have already diagnosed the car through Vag-Com logging, swapping coil packs, swapping spark plugs, and maybe even changing the injector. Instructions for logging a vehicle using Vag-Com can be found here: http://www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php 

To check what valve springs you have, you can remove the PCV: 



















And attempt to inspect the color bands on the exhaust valve springs. 



















Please refer to the image above for known good and bad valve spring color bands. 

Thank you for your patience during our diagnosis and Go APR! 

-Arin


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## Bpete (Oct 26, 2002)

*Yeah*



ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Half the people in this thread say to take the easy and most logical step to troubleshoot your car, yet you dont listen to us.
> Have fun continuing to blame the software.
> Im out


 Your hopeless support and endless opotunity to make someone feel like an idiot just does not need to be posted here everytime. Take a break.


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Bpete said:


> Your hopeless support and endless opotunity to make someone feel like an idiot just does not need to be posted here everytime. Take a break.


 Hes right though. 

One of the easiest things that was asked was not done and that was change the plugs back. 

It was also said that coil packs may be to blame but the OP insists his are fine because the car runs fine under 4k. 

Lost cause I'm afraid. If you are going to ask for help then not listen to the people who are giving advice what's the point?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

APR is on it now; thank you APR for taking a look at the logs and the others who are having the same problem. Arin: Don't worry, I won't do something as foolish as change software back when I'm running 32 psi of boost and moving a lot more air than the original fuel map was ever prepared for :screwy:, or make any other hardware changes to the APR kit. 

I appreciate some of the suggestions people have been posting, but it's obvious that some of the suggestions come from people who really have no idea what you're talking about. I imagine you also catch marlins out of creeks using stale bread as bait. There is an exact science to internal combustion engines that has been figured out for a while now. I have air, compression, fuel and spark; everything runs fine except for certain loads at certain engine speeds when the spark or fuel at that particular moment isn't ideal.


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

Well will you let us all know when you change the bad coil pack(s)? You posted up some vcds codes that show your misfiring at 6700 + rpm and then having a cylinder deactivated at around 5000rpm milliseconds later. Ypu haven't posted one usefull piece of info showing your car leaning out above any rpm. And now your car makes 30 plus pounds of boost? You do know you have to subtract ambient atmospheric pressure from the vcds reading to get actual boost right? If you are actually making that much boost you have a hardware issue. 
With what info you posted up here you got the answers you got. 
Its obvious that the superior knowledge of the internal combustion engine you and your shop share led you online to mock all of us dullards who know nothing. If you wanted a pity party about a software problem that more than likely doesn't exist I think your in the Wrong place. 
Dude good luck.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Bpete said:


> Your hopeless support and endless opotunity to make someone feel like an idiot just does not need to be posted here everytime. Take a break.


 lolumad
you still butthurt about not being able to pass emissions with a stage 2 catless file?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I'm running 32 psi of boost


 The map sensor can only read to 2550 mBar, or around 37 PSI. That includes ambient pressure, which is typically around 14 PSI or 1 bar. So, at sea level, the most you'll see is about 22 PSI. 

I looked at your logs and I can see you did not subtract the ambient pressure, so thats why it looks like you're running 30+ PSI. In actuality, you're running around 20+ PSI that tapers to the upper teens by redline where you're experiencing misfires. 

Lambda has not shown any signs of leaning out. You're hitting normal targeted figures. 

What's strange is your injector on time does look a bit high. Could you grab some more logs? 

Try sending me a round 1 log. 

http://www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> everything runs fine except for certain loads at certain engine speeds when the *spark* or fuel at that particular moment isn't ideal.


 The underlined part is pretty important. Since you are not using the recommended plugs, the engine under load does not seem to be igniting the air/fuel mixture correctly. If it was a fueling issue you would be running either lean or rich, which a wideband A/F gauge would tell you. I think two important tools are a boost gauge and an A/F gauge. 

I guarantee that APR is going to tell you to switch to the stock plugs for a proper evaluation of your issue. I know this is your daily driver, but we all have been trying to help you avoid the worst possible scenario, which is returning your car back to stock. 

As I told you before, do not exclude anything unless you test it, which includes coilpacks, injectors, and the spark plugs. I know that there will be some costs in replacing these items but this has to be done. 

*The solution* 

The answers are right there in those logs you posted. You have two cylinders that are misfiring. This means you have a place to start. Do the following for a cost effective solution but more time consuming on your part: 

1. Select one cylinder that is having the issue. 

2. For the cylinder you selected switch out components one at a time. 

3. Do some more logs to see if anything changes on that particular cylinder. If nothing changes go to Step 4. Otherwise, you can proceed to Step 1 for the next cylinder. 

4. Rinse and repeat for rest of the items related to that cylinder (plug, coilpack, injector(injector would be last on list since it is rare for those to go bad) 

My recommendation would be to change out the coilpacks and spark plugs for both cylinders. These are wear and tear items anyway so replacement is inevitable. Also, these new parts have a limited warranty on them for a year or 12,000 miles I believe.


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

I would start by swapping cylinder 2 and 3 coils with cylinders 1 and 4 and see if the problems moves there. If not, change your plugs back (I don't see this as an issue, as I have run 3 different types of plugs with no issues). If this doesn't help, you have injector issues. 

As for you saying ANYTHING about people here not knowing anything is pretty ****ty of you. Most of the people submitting replies are someone who runs a K04, does the work themselves and has experienced some sort or issue or knows about cars. We can count you out of everything above besides owning the kit. You don't do your own work and started on a forum trying to get help instead of going through APR which clearly will work with you to figure out the issue. We are all "friends or enthusiasts" here and it's pretty easy to get a bad name. I would suggest if you ever want help in the future to actually take into suggestion what everyone is saying and not be in such denial or rude.


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

nick0188 said:


> I would start by swapping cylinder 2 and 3 coils with cylinders 1 and 4 and see if the problems moves there. If not, change your plugs back (I don't see this as an issue, as I have run 3 different types of plugs with no issues). If this doesn't help, you have injector issues.
> 
> As for you saying ANYTHING about people here not knowing anything is pretty ****ty of you. Most of the people submitting replies are someone who runs a K04, does the work themselves and has experienced some sort or issue or knows about cars. We can count you out of everything above besides owning the kit. You don't do your own work and started on a forum trying to get help instead of going through APR which clearly will work with you to figure out the issue. We are all "friends or enthusiasts" here and it's pretty easy to get a bad name. I would suggest if you ever want help in the future to actually take into suggestion what everyone is saying and not be in such denial or rude.


 Well said :thumbup:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

In reviewing my textbooks I admit I had it backwards about the lambda stoichiometry. Below 1 is rich, above is lean. It's been a while since I was in college. 

*Once again* thank you APR for looking into this. APR has been sent a complete set of logs. 

*Once again* I have these problems with stock plugs at .28, with stock plugs at .30 (as was recommended by another person that actually has this problem) and with stpuid-pricey NGK plugs that APR has said are the same as stock. 

*Once again* I posted this to raise awareness/get input FROM OTHER PEOPLE WITH THE SAME PROBLEM and not arm-chair forum wizards.


----------



## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

Schrottplatzer said:


> *Once again* I have these problems with stock plugs at .28, with stock plugs at .30 (as was recommended by another person that actually has this problem) and with stpuid-pricey NGK plugs that APR has said are the same as stock.
> 
> *Once again* I posted this to raise awareness/get input FROM OTHER PEOPLE WITH THE SAME PROBLEM and not arm-chair forum wizards.


 arm-chair forum wizards. that's the best thing to come out of this thread. If I could just find that cape............. 

Seriously though 
*Once again* have you tried moving the coil packs around or replacing them? if your going to all the trouble of swapping plugs you could at least give that a shot.


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> In reviewing my textbooks I admit I had it backwards about the lambda stoichiometry. Below 1 is rich, above is lean. It's been a while since I was in college.
> 
> *Once again* thank you APR for looking into this. APR has been sent a complete set of logs.
> 
> ...


 With every thoughtful post you make, you make yourself look more like a douche. Keep em coming :thumbup::thumbup:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

sspcivic31 said:


> arm-chair forum wizards. that's the best thing to come out of this thread. If I could just find that cape.............
> 
> Seriously though
> *Once again* have you tried moving the coil packs around or replacing them? if your going to all the trouble of swapping plugs you could at least give that a shot.


 LMAO at your arm chair forum wizarded k04 GTI


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> LMAO at your arm chair forum wizarded k04 GTI


 Thanks! :wave: Something good should come from this. 

For a mere $25 dollars or so this poor guy could know the great rush of warmth filling his belly upon trouncing the local vette/camaro/mustang/challenger/charger/etc. douche who would otherwise torment him during closed course acceleration runs(professional drivers of course). 

If you wont listen to the fourm wizards listen to Gandalf: 

 

BTW every time your car misfires a Hobbit DIES!


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

I've had misfires on cylinder 2 and 3 for awhile now. The misfires happen at 6300RPM every single time I hit that point. 

Things I've done (not in order):
- I've changed to the stage three plugs
- I've changed all coilpacks
- I've replaced injectors 2 and 3
- I've swapped MAFs
- Ran without an MAF
- multiple APR files

I am sure there are other things I am forgetting. My latest item to look at is the wiring harness, but due to other unplanned life events, I've yet to investigate that.

I have a 2011 CC with APR KO4, APR IC, Carbino intake, Eurojet DP with cat...


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

jspirate said:


> I've had misfires on cylinder 2 and 3 for awhile now. The misfires happen at 6300RPM every single time I hit that point.
> 
> Things I've done (not in order):
> - I've changed to the stage three plugs
> ...


 Did you send the data logs into APR or just try different tunes?


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Did you send the data logs into APR or just try different tunes?


 
Sent many, many, many logs to APR. They have worked with me a fair bit and I have nothing negative to say about their effort. I still have mis-fires though...


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## simon-says (Oct 21, 2007)

OMG. 

Really, another car with the same problems. Huh.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

Schrottplatzer said:


> In reviewing my textbooks I admit I had it backwards about the lambda stoichiometry. Below 1 is rich, above is lean. It's been a while since I was in college.
> 
> *Once again* thank you APR for looking into this. APR has been sent a complete set of logs.
> 
> ...


 This may be a stupid question but you do have the plugs gapped to 0.028 not 0.28 correct..


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> This may be a stupid question but you do have the plugs gapped to 0.028 not 0.28 correct..


 :laugh: Awesome question. Yes they are gapped correctly. Is it even possible to gap a plug to .28? I'd like to see that. 

FORUM WIZARDS: Conjure up a photo of a .28 gapped plug!


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

simon-says said:


> OMG.
> 
> Really, another car with the same problems. Huh.


 Yeah who knew. A Volkswagen with possibly a bad coil pack. Those things never fail.  

On a more serious note. Has any one with a misfire problem in this thread that diddnt have a bad coil done leak down and/or compression tests? Or checked to see if the knock sensor was torqued correctly? 

Jspirate does you car shut the cylinder(s) down every time you cross 6300 or does the misfire counter just increment? Have you tried running 100 octane in the 91-93 map to see if that helps?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Today it shut them down while I was merging onto the freeway on the way home. I'm not sure what the RPM was because I was watching traffic. The car was under load as the on-ramp was uphill. I'll be able to log some more data this Friday. I hope there is a fix for this soon, it was no fun having to pull off the freeway to turn off and restart the car.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

sspcivic31 said:


> Yeah who knew. A Volkswagen with possibly a bad coil pack. Those things never fail.
> 
> On a more serious note. Has any one with a misfire problem in this thread that diddnt have a bad coil done leak down and/or compression tests? Or checked to see if the knock sensor was torqued correctly?
> 
> Jspirate does you car shut the cylinder(s) down every time you cross 6300 or does the misfire counter just increment? Have you tried running 100 octane in the 91-93 map to see if that helps?


 It just misfires everytime. It does not shut the cylinders down.

I have not tried 100 octane, but I have tried the 93 octane on the 91 map.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

It sounds like it could be the injectors? Is it always the same cylinders that misfire?


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

Where are you located? Sounds like you just need a little help from a shop that really understand how a car this advanced works.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

More logs run again for APR today. Same cylinders, but this time not until a higher rpm. I love the way this thing pulls above 5k. For all of you who are still stuck on the coil packs: While getting my new wheels/tires done at the dealership they checked everything and saw no issues, not with the coil packs, not with the plugs, and there have not been any documented problems with 2012 models. This dealership is a pretty massive one that spans the two cities/states in my area.

In better news a late 90s M3 wanted to play on an on-ramp yesterday. He of course got me off the line, but after that I was on his ass all the way 'till the freeway where we let off.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> More logs run again for APR today. Same cylinders, but this time not until a higher rpm. I love the way this thing pulls above 5k. For all of you who are still stuck on the coil packs: While getting my new wheels/tires done at the dealership they checked everything and saw no issues, not with the coil packs, not with the plugs, and there have not been any documented problems with 2012 models. This dealership is a pretty massive one that spans the two cities/states in my area.
> 
> In better news a late 90s M3 wanted to play on an on-ramp yesterday. He of course got me off the line, but after that I was on his ass all the way 'till the freeway where we let off.


Didn't I specifically tell you *"NOT"* to rule anything out, especially when a dealership tells you everything is fine? It looks like you are still having problems with your car, which sucks. Your option now is to put everything back to stock including the ECU. 

Good luck :beer:


PS -



> While getting my new wheels/tires done at the dealership they checked everything and saw no issues, not with the coil packs, not with the plugs, and there have not been any documented problems with 2012 models.


These are all wear and tear items and will eventually be replaced. These items have been problematic on all VW platforms since the early days of the MK4.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

sh{}e said:


> Didn't I specifically tell you *"NOT"* to rule anything out, especially when a dealership tells you everything is fine? It looks like you are still having problems with your car, which sucks. Your option now is to put everything back to stock including the ECU.
> 
> Good luck :beer:
> 
> ...


Another option would be to try a competitors tune.


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

LOL they checked out the coilpoacks and plugs and they were ok.

@ the dealer...
Tech 1 to Tech 2: "customer said to check the plugs and coilpacks"
Tech 2 to Tech 1: "I just looked, they are still there. The check engine light isn't flashing and the 
cars runs. No problems here!"
Techs to customer: "We checked everything out and it's all okay."

Don't you realize this is what happens? I've come to the conclusion you came across some money, got all the stuff done to your car by someone else...and about the only thing you know about cars is where to put fuel and the key.


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

nick0188 said:


> LOL they checked out the coilpoacks and plugs and they were ok.
> 
> @ the dealer...
> Tech 1 to Tech 2: "customer said to check the plugs and coilpacks"
> ...


I EL OH EL'd 

This is exactly what happened.....I just didnt want to say anything.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

nick0188 said:


> Don't you realize this is what happens? I've come to the conclusion you came across some money, got all the stuff done to your car by someone else...and about the only thing you know about cars is where to put fuel and the key.


 Since you're curious: I grew up with a father in automotive racing, then earned an Associate of Science in Automotive Technician degree, have built four cars (ranging in production from 1964 to 2003) from the ground up, heavily modified dozens more (ranging from 1950 to 2012). What's your automotive education?


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Since you're curious: I grew up with a father in automotive racing, then earned an Associate of Science in Automotive Technician degree, have built four cars (ranging in production from 1964 to 2003) from the ground up, heavily modified dozens more (ranging from 1950 to 2012). What's your automotive education?


All that pedigree and you couldn't be bothered with "bolting" the Ko4 kit on your own car?
If you were half as smart as your pretending to be, you wouldn't be on here complaining about the software being your problem, or doing stupid things like continuing to drive on a obviously misfiring engine.
Dude go to the ATM (i think we all know you know where that is) take out $110 go to the dealer you love so much and buy 4 current revision coil packs and change them already. otherwise post up the vcds logs showing something other than bad coil pack.


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## surfo (Jan 6, 2006)

*Hey!*

Hey... open up your mind!... down here I had a client just like you when I used to sell APR... saying "my car is new and hardware can´t be the issue"... SAME PROBLEM YOU HAD, he blame software changed to Unitronic.. NOTHING, changed to Giacc, NOTHING... came back with us... changed ALL COILPACKS... problem solved and missing out APR software... came back. PAYED AGAIN for APR software.

don´t buy them... let someone else with out issues borrow them to you and try... BUT TRY ALL 4 not just 2


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

surfo said:


> Hey... open up your mind!... down here I had a client just like you when I used to sell APR... saying "my car is new and hardware can´t be the issue"... SAME PROBLEM YOU HAD, he blame software changed to Unitronic.. NOTHING, changed to Giacc, NOTHING... came back with us... changed ALL COILPACKS... problem solved and missing out APR software... came back. PAYED AGAIN for APR software.
> 
> don´t buy them... let someone else with out issues borrow them to you and try... BUT TRY ALL 4 not just 2


Thanks for a constructive idea. When the coil packs go bad wouldn't it be at a wide range of rpms and not just specific ranges?


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

Schrottplatzer said:


> What's your automotive education?


Worked at my parents garage since I was 12 building race cars.
Oh..and a BS in Mechanical Engineering from one of the top 10 engineering schools in the country. :thumbup:


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## DjSherif (Apr 27, 2005)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Thanks for a constructive idea. When the coil packs go bad wouldn't it be at a wide range of rpms and not just specific ranges?


When my coils went bad the dealer said they were fine. They only gave me a problem at around the same range as you. I sucked it up bought new coils out of my own pocket and the car runs great.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

what i really dont get is that people are still trying to help this guy.

he obviously has next to no clue on what to do, or how to diagnose a car... hence this thread.

he obviously doesnt listen to anyone: all the proof is on the posts

he obviously drives like an as$ and a maniac: a car with 1600 miles, k04 and reving to 7k rpms CONSTANTLY? did he ever hear about "break in"?

lastly, he doesnt takes much care for laws or public safety: street racing.

people like you (i dont feel the need to further describe you) shouldnt be driving...

i hope nothing good comes out of your issue.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

revving the piss out of it is not a bad thing when breaking in... in fact, doing so during the first 20-100 miles is thought to be the best thing you can do to help your rings seal. google it. there are alot of competing methodologies, but I personally let the car warm up driving slow, go 5-10 miles... then start revving higher and higher with load... at 15-20 miles i go WOT a few times with load, high gears. After that, just drive normally till the 100 mile mark, then change the oil and drive sanely till 1000 miles, then do as you wish. it will break in just fine after that...


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Krieger said:


> revving the piss out of it is not a bad thing when breaking in... in fact, doing so during the first 20-100 miles is thought to be the best thing you can do to help your rings seal. google it. there are alot of competing methodologies, but I personally let the car warm up driving slow, go 5-10 miles... then start revving higher and higher with load... at 15-20 miles i go WOT a few times with load, high gears. After that, just drive normally till the 100 mile mark, then change the oil and drive sanely till 1000 miles, then do as you wish. it will break in just fine after that...


That's roughly what they taught us in the Engine Performance Analysis class. I also have more than 3,000 miles on it now. It's not hard to kiss 6k+ when passing on a freeway, especially driving up hill.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> he obviously has next to no clue on what to do, or how to diagnose a car... hence this thread.
> 
> he obviously doesnt listen to anyone: all the proof is on the posts
> 
> ...


:facepalm:

1. If you were literate you would have noticed that I started this thread to see if anyone else had experienced this and how they had solved it.

2. I'm not changing anything so that my data logs remain true and whenever APR decides to retune there are minimal variables. I have not posted those logs to protect the business of APR. I'm not out to burn them, just looking to get my car running right.

3. The data logs specifically ask to take it to 6,500 rpm

4. As far as public safety and posts. I went to Afghanistan and Iraq for the safety of the snot nosed, selfish, or boneless who wouldn't, and have been serving for more than a decade to protect your freedom of speech and expression. That does not, however, mean that I appreciate or welcome you derailing the thread or slinging pointless insults. I have driven in nine countries, on Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, and the Nuerburgring: I am aware of a vehicle's capabilities and limitations, as well as the laws of physics.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Schrottplatzer said:


> :facepalm:
> 
> 1. If you were literate you would have noticed that I started this thread to see if anyone else had experienced this and how they had solved it.


really? this is post one:



Schrottplatzer said:


> I took my list and car to Double J Motorwerks in Portland. They did a great job putting the below together in very quick time:
> 
> 2012 GLI: Volkswagen Racing Intake/Induktion Motorsports pipe. APR Stage III K04 kit, S3 FMIC, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Dual Borla exhaust, H&R Springs
> 
> ...


i really fail to see where is it that you are asking for help. All i see is a post where the customer is "royally dissapointed"




> 2. x
> 3. x





> 4. As far as public safety and posts. I went to Afghanistan and Iraq for the safety of the snot nosed, selfish, or boneless who wouldn't, and have been serving for more than a decade to protect your freedom of speech and expression. That does not, however, mean that I appreciate or welcome you derailing the thread or slinging pointless insults. I have driven in nine countries, on Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, and the Nuerburgring: I am aware of a vehicle's capabilities and limitations, as well as the laws of physics.


lol, so.. you went to Afghanistan and you "have driven in nine countries, on Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, and the Nuerburgring: I am aware of a vehicle's capabilities and limitations".

thats great.

please tell me how that entitles you to street race?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

checked to make sure there are zero leaks anywhere? id do the soapy water test on the intake side. never know, might be just enough of a crack to open under peak boost, high load? 

also, like others have said, change the coil packs or move em around. I had 2 go bad on me so far and it was random as hell, but always under load and higher RPMs... idled and cruised fine. :beer:


----------



## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Checked for leaks, everything is tight. The only possible excessive/loss of air is a long shot: I'm running the VW Racing intake, which leaves the axillary air hose separate. I plugged in a breather filter for it, but it likely breathes better than VW planned for since it's not sucking though the air box. I didn't post this earlier because I thought we were past the coil pack thing, but the misfires have been on all four cylinders for a few weeks now. They seem to happen most often starting at 6500 rpm, under load, at 60mph. My engine was assembled in March 2012, I bought it in May 2012, started having issues June 2012. Is there a more recent coil pack revision than March/May 2012?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Checked for leaks, everything is tight. The only possible excessive/loss of air is a long shot: I'm running the VW Racing intake, which leaves the axillary air hose separate. I plugged in a breather filter for it, but it likely breathes better than VW planned for since it's not sucking though the air box. I didn't post this earlier because I thought we were past the coil pack thing, but the misfires have been on all four cylinders for a few weeks now. They seem to happen most often starting at 6500 rpm, under load, at 60mph. My engine was assembled in March 2012, I bought it in May 2012, started having issues June 2012. Is there a more recent coil pack revision than March/May 2012?


It's only active during cold start, and then it shuts off.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Checked for leaks, everything is tight. The only possible excessive/loss of air is a long shot: I'm running the VW Racing intake, which leaves the axillary air hose separate. I plugged in a breather filter for it, but it likely breathes better than VW planned for since it's not sucking though the air box. I didn't post this earlier because I thought we were past the coil pack thing, but the misfires have been on all four cylinders for a few weeks now. They seem to happen most often starting at 6500 rpm, under load, at 60mph. My engine was assembled in March 2012, I bought it in May 2012, started having issues June 2012. Is there a more recent coil pack revision than March/May 2012?


You are starting to assume, incorrectly I may add, as to what your problem is and coming up with illogical conclusions. 

Some clarification please. First, you said you took it to the dealer and nothing was discovered. That is strange because the dealer would have discovered the misfires immediately. Did you clear the codes? If the dealer finds fault codes then they have somewhere to start with.

I think it could be the actual wiring harness for the coilpacks. Take it to a reputable VW dealer because they will find the issue, especially with misfires.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Yes the codes were cleared before I took it to the dealership, I was there because they installed my TSW Nuerburgrings without the hubcentric rings. I didn't want them messing with the engine set-up as it would invalidate the data logs. I just asked them to run a test of ignition and fueling systems. I have no way of knowing what they actually did. Every time I have to make those log runs I have to break the law which is something I'm not comfortable with. APR wanted them run, but would not pay for a dyno to do it safely so we took that car out to an area where the Police had previously suggested to my tuner, but that's not a guarantee that we wouldn't get pulled over.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

LOL, You blatently admitted to street racing, but now have a problem with taking your car to redline in 3rd or 4th gear?


----------



## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Maybe you've never paid attention to your tach; I hit 6500 rpm at 60mph; below the speed limit. We have a few on-ramps around here on which you go from a 25mph zone to a 70mph Interstate full of trucks up a hill: very easy to hit 6500 in first or second. 6500 in third or fourth however, would be speeding. 

If you're confused about Laguna Seca, Willow Springs, and the Nuerburgring I suggest that you do a little more research: They are not public roads, and rules of the track are rather strict. Even on open track days at Nuerburgring (www.nuerburgring.de) racing is strictly prohibited, however there is no speed limit and passing is allowed so long as it is on the left. Willow Springs has similar rules, and my time on Laguna Seca was part of the Cherries Jubilee car show and we were escorted by the California Highway Patrol.

I commend you on yet another great job of derailing my thread and bumping it without actually contributing anything worth reading; punishing those poor soles who read the top threads looking to learn something.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

:facepalm:


----------



## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

sspcivic31 said:


> I had a similar problem on my 2010 GTI after the Ko4 install. It was a bad coil pack. Car ran fine the night I took it home, drove to work the next morning and same problem as you. Misfires, cylinder disable etc. bad #2 coil pack. I replaced all four and have 3 spares.fixed it right up. the hunting for idle is more than likely the ecu doing adaptation since that was wiped out during the ecu flash. How far will it go at light load without misfiring?


+1. 13k not a problem. the day my K04 was install, misfire #3. replaced all my coil packs same day. never a problem again.

but since he "knows" its not a coilpack..................

FYI OP.... a bad coilpack can be fine under 4000rpm.. it has no load.. how bout you listen to people in the thread that know a bit more than you about all this.


----------



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

placenta said:


> how bout you listen to people in the thread that know a bit more than you about all this.


lol. true.

on OP's favor: he never asked a question (on post 1) asking for help. therefore its understandable that he doesnt takes the advice that everyone is giving.


----------



## grambles423 (Nov 3, 2009)

So much misinformation by the OP.....waaaaayyyyy too much.

Change your coilpacks


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Maybe you've never paid attention to your tach; I hit 6500 rpm at 60mph; below the speed limit. We have a few on-ramps around here on which you go from a 25mph zone to a 70mph Interstate full of trucks up a hill: very easy to hit 6500 in first or second. 6500 in third or fourth however, would be speeding.
> 
> I commend you on yet another great job of derailing my thread and bumping it without actually contributing anything worth reading; punishing those poor soles who read the top threads looking to learn something.


Have you been running all your logs in 1-2nd gear to avoid "speeding"?
you really need to do them in 4th. consult your auto class texts books for why, since you wont listen to any of us.

You have done the best job of anyone derailing this thread, since it never really had a point to start with. 
i mean you did a pretty good e-hand job to the shop that bolted the parts on your car, and bashed APR a little implying they released a product with a flaw since your all encompassing research "might" indicate a ecu hardware difference for the gli. the rest is just a sad,sad, blur of stupid.
Dude for the love of all that's holy, Please man up and buy the coils and move on. 
just let us know its fixed so we can ride the "i told you so" express around like a broom stick pony.

for all the golfmk6 forum guys replying to this thread: 
The B7 A4 is K03
cause this thread is headed there too.


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## piston (Oct 17, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I took my list and car to Double J Motorwerks in Portland. They did a great job putting the below together in very quick time:
> 
> 2012 GLI: Volkswagen Racing Intake/Induktion Motorsports pipe. APR Stage III K04 kit, S3 FMIC, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Dual Borla exhaust, H&R Springs
> 
> ...


Why did you take the car when issues were clearly found.
You should let the shop handle troubleshooting the issue.

No one in their right mind would take delivery of a car that has issues After mods were installed.
It's up to the shop to diagnose. If they find faulty parts, they can bill you.


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)




----------



## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

*NEWS*

In short:
Flashed the car back to stock. NO MISFIRES, ran under load up to 7k W/O misfires. 
With software I had to roll into full throttle to avoid EPC and misfires. W/O I can now go straight to full without issues!

Took the car to the dealership, ran complete diagnosis of ignition and fuel systems: nothing wrong.

So to summarize: W/ Software = problems. W/O software = no problems. Are there any more questions about my MAR2012 coil packs?

I'm looking for solutions, so please, if you do not have a 2012 GLI or 2011 CC (have had the same issues) with the APR Stage III K04 kit please resign to spectating and reduce the nonsense on the forum.


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## placenta (Jun 3, 2003)

This guy can't even grasp the diff electrical loads based on different tunes.. The stock tune doesnt stress the coilpacks.. Don't replace those coil packs.. Just delete this idiots thread instead.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> In short:
> Flashed the car back to stock. NO MISFIRES, ran under load up to 7k W/O misfires.
> With software I had to roll into full throttle to avoid EPC and misfires. W/O I can now go straight to full without issues!
> 
> ...


Are you going to try another software tune for the K04?


----------



## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

*ARGH! Why so Dense?*



Schrottplatzer said:


> In short:
> Are there any more questions about my MAR2012 coil packs?
> 
> I'm looking for solutions, so please, if you do not have a 2012 GLI or 2011 CC (have had the same issues) with the APR Stage III K04 kit please resign to spectating and reduce the nonsense on the forum.


No questions, just a statement: 
Dude!, At least one of your coil packs is bad. 
Listen very carefully....................... 
NOTHING you have said or done even remotely points to a software problem. your car has a hardware issue. if you insist on trying to get the dealership of all places to to fix it for you, stop clearing the freaking codes showing the misfires and give them something to work with. Stop posting your lunatic "thoughts" about the software not working, that's not the problem.
Like multiple people have told you over and over here, swap the coil pack from the misfiring cylinder to another location on the motor. use VCDS and watch the misfire move to the new cylinder. Whoa "magic". buy new coil pack and finally enjoy the car you should have picked up not the one you've been complaining about for over a month.:banghead:

the solution for you seems to be quite clear. trade the gli in on a GTI, cause when we have your problem, a coil pack fixes our issues. plus there wont be any of your "hardware" compatibility issues with the ECU and the software. :wave:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

The misfires were on all four cylinders with software. My early posts were as the problems were discovered. The only times I pushed it after that point were while running data logs for APR, during which all four cylinders had problems. No misfires happen without the software. There were no codes to clear because none were thrown after reverting back to stock software. The engine can freely rev well above the point where it would shut down when running software.


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## DjSherif (Apr 27, 2005)

Doesn't matter. I'm telling you that if you replace all four coil packs your problem will be solved. You have been dealing with this issue for a long time. If I was you I would have lost my mind waiting all this time for some to fix a problem that you already know the solution for. I installed a K04, the next thing you know I'm having misfires. Replaced all for packs problem solved. Before I replaced them I had the EXACT and I repeat the EXACT same symptoms as you. In stock mode no misfires. Only under load would I have a problem. The dealer told me the coils were fine but they were not.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

this is the issue with new cars... too many noob drivers. 

it'd be better if OP listened to advice


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

*Keeping the stupid localized*

Just so everyone that stumbles into this thread understands exactly how stubborn the OP is, here is a quoted exchange from the APR Ko4 or AWE Ko4 thread. I don't know how APR (or any company) can put up with this kind of ignorance. 



Schrottplatzer said:


> The APR kit I got was very complete, but from my experience their customer service is a door in front of a brick wall. I've had issues since day one of the install, made three separate data logging runs, and even started a thread on almost a month ago. I have had ZERO suggestions, ideas, or even apologies for wasting my time from them. I know some people swear by APR, but for me it's been mostly swearing at them.





[email protected] said:


> The sheer number of K04 kits we sell around the world is absolutely massive. We even went to the length of stock over 500 units at one time. If our customers have issues, the first step is to data log the vehicle to see if we can see anything wrong. From what I understand, everything we've seen on your vehicle looked perfect, yet you're reporting misfires.
> 
> How should we handle the situation? The limited data looks perfect, other customers with the same engine and same ecu run perfectly. We've tried adjustments in some areas to see if anything changed, and it didn't. So, like I said, what should we be doing that we haven't already, and how do you feel you've been treated poorly when all we've done is helped you out with suppor the entire time?
> 
> We've made suggestions on what to change based on our previous experience with other vehicles. Have you tried every suggestion we've made? Have you swapped coil packs, spark plugs and injectors to see if the misfires follow to the other cylinders? These are important things you need to do when there's an issue. Publicly blaming the software before you have ANY data doesn't help anyone.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

As we've said before, it's best to check all common hardware related issues as we've sold 1,000's of K04's across many different VAG makes and models, all without issue. 

With stock software, less load is placed on different components, so the likelihood of misfires will be far less. 

Anyone is free to bring their vehicle to us for diagnosis too. If we find something wrong, we'll fix it like always.


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## drppedfikse (Nov 6, 2004)

*Hmmm... DUH*

So overall I have tried to stay out of the stupidity running wild in this thread but alas I figured I would throw my knowledge into this. I currently DO NOT own a K04 car nor APR software on my '09 TSI so take this all for whatever you choose. But I have done a lot of research on/for my car as I have done all the garage work myself. Been through 3 exhausts, 3 intakes, 3 sets of coilovers, and 2 catch cans among a multitude of other part swaps and other upgrades. I have had on and off issues with my TSI from the first days of modifications at which time I have either forged my own roads or searched out advice from those in the 'know'.

For the most part the guys in this thread are being helpful and only giving the OP options (mostly ignored) to test. Arin with APR has nothing but been helpful to me in the past even when I was running a competitors software to help diagnose an issue with mismatched hardware and I believe he is doing so currently with the OP. If you won't take even his advice, your option is take all the hardware off and park your car as you no have real reason to be here crying to a forum that actually wants to help you but you then continue to ignore. Yes he has sold 1,000's of K04s with very little issues but the real deal here is they have the experience of testing these way before they ever hit the market.

My honest opinion is its hardware. You know why I am saying this? Is because I been through 3 VWs of assorted modification and every time I have got the mod bug I had been hit buy one part or another rearing it's head towards failure. Whether it be coil-packs (went through literally sets on my 1.8t, a set on my R32, and 6 on my TSI), spark-plugs (a few sets on each), injectors (one set in the 1.8t), fuel pumps (nothing yet), or any other 'wear and tear' (countless overall) item you have to know **** can break. If you believe every car has zero issues regardless of modification levels then you are kidding yourself and should start taking public transportation which still can fail from time to time.


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## PeeLo801 (Apr 5, 2012)

I'm subscribing to this thread just so I can see what happens if/when the OP replaces his coil packs. opcorn:


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

DjSherif said:


> Doesn't matter. I'm telling you that if you replace all four coil packs your problem will be solved. You have been dealing with this issue for a long time. If I was you I would have lost my mind waiting all this time for some to fix a problem that you already know the solution for. I installed a K04, the next thing you know I'm having misfires. Replaced all for packs problem solved. Before I replaced them I had the EXACT and I repeat the EXACT same symptoms as you. In stock mode no misfires. Only under load would I have a problem. The dealer told me the coils were fine but they were not.



Your post suggests coil pack failure is a common problem with the APR K04 upgrade? 

Is there a reason for the coil pack problems? Does APR suggest coil pack replacement in the installation manual when upgrading to the slightly larger K04? 

Thanks, :beer:


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

FLtrooper said:


> Your post suggests coil pack failure is a common problem with the APR K04 upgrade?
> 
> Is there a reason for the coil pack problems? Does APR suggest coil pack replacement in the installation manual when upgrading to the slightly larger K04?
> 
> Thanks, :beer:


coil issues have been a VW problem for a long time. It has nothing to do with the ko4 making them go bad. The tune requests more load from certain components and in turn will point out a weak or failing part.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

Worth noting.. did my ko4 swap earlier in the week.. didnt feel 100%, had a buddy run some logs with me last night and cyl 1/3 kept misfiring. swapped 2 new coilpacks in.. poof.. gone. power to redline, 21-22 psi and no traction in 1st/2nd and sometimes third. did 5 pulls after the cp swap and she runs like a champ. might pick up 2 more at WF this weekend for good measure.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Just a quiz:
How many running a 2012 GLI with the new ECU? How many with no issues? How many with some issue? Do you know that this a diff ECU? OK then....
Thanks for help.....

I am waiting for answers........


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi.......I'm from Brazil and the dealer here put an APR K04 kit in my Jetta TSI about 3 weeks ago.
On the very first run we had some misfires just like the first post. At about 6390rpm in 2/3/4 gear the cylinder 2 and 3 go off.............We've tried spark plugs, coil pack, MAF sensor, fuel and everything went the same way!
Here in Brazil our fuel is a mixture of gasoline and ethanol and we thought that was the problem, then evaluate the logs in the VAG-COM and noticed that there was error in the timing of ignition, that with the programs 95 and 98 RON.
I just got back from the shop after we perform several tests and we remedy the error by using the program 104RON, now the car is fine, no errors, changing gears at the right time and it seems that was ........... much stronger, with all parameters at levels appropriate and the best ..... no misfires. Let's run one more time before we put the dynamometer measurements
It is very clear from the beginning that the problem was a faulty software. We are still awaiting a response from the APR, they're all the logs for 2 weeks and a video showing the failure ............. let's see how long it will take and send a suitable software this time


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Back to zero....... New misfire

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> Back to zero....... New misfire
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


I was told you got new misfire yesterday night. Holy s***..,Once again.
Suggestion: run today, and pay attention at temp. 
Only real change between yesterday during the day, and during the night, was a big drop in outside temp.
Meanwhile, lets see if get some answers from APR....Or maybe one of these expert guys in the forum can get you a solution!!!!!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Hope so.......... 

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

bmllr8 said:


> One of the few threads I have read all the way through not for information, but for entertainment purposes. Can't wait to see what happens next. opcorn:


 Entertainment?................... man, this is for crying purposes


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> Entertainment?................... man, this is for crying purposes


Hi,

How was yesterday? Still getting misfires? Have you talked to someone from APR?
I did some runs in the 104 program (I know that I don´t have to) just to see the diff between your logs (K04) and mine (stage 2+). Like I thought, too mucho timing advance stage 2+ that it´s impossible to keep running.......timing pull around 12 most of the time. I am luck to haven´t broken anything.

Once again I hope you get a solution asap.

:thumbup:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

zucchini said:


> Hi,
> 
> How was yesterday? Still getting misfires? Have you talked to someone from APR?
> I did some runs in the 104 program (I know that I don´t have to) just to see the diff between your logs (K04) and mine (stage 2+). Like I thought, too mucho timing advance stage 2+ that it´s impossible to keep running.......timing pull around 12 most of the time. I am luck to haven´t broken anything.
> ...


Yesterday I did 4 runs...in D, S, Tip...........and everything was ok, no misfires! I guess that the cause of the last misfire was that the outside temperature!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

zucchini said:


> Hi,
> 
> How was yesterday? Still getting misfires? Have you talked to someone from APR?
> I did some runs in the 104 program (I know that I don´t have to) just to see the diff between your logs (K04) and mine (stage 2+). Like I thought, too mucho timing advance stage 2+ that it´s impossible to keep running.......timing pull around 12 most of the time. I am luck to haven´t broken anything.
> ...


104 is really too agressive!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

bmllr8 said:


> Let me clarify, the entertaining ppart was watching Schrottplatzer's posts and subsequent forum responses. I do sympathize for your situation.


 Thanks man.............. :thumbup:


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## simon-says (Oct 21, 2007)

The OP has had legitimate issues with the tune of his car. And you all bash him. :screwy:

And now another fellow with the exact same issues (sounds like it to me) and you all want to sympathies his problem. :facepalm:

Both guys are victims of the of the high and all mighty APR product. No other people here are coming out with the same problem publicly. But I can assure you all that there are several others with the same problem. I have gotten forwarded PM's from others. Trust me when I say. APR is aware of the problem and they havent been able to identify it. 

So in closing.

There is nothing wrong or bad with the coil packs/ plugs/ MAF./fuel, OR HARDWARE. Its a software issue.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

simon-says said:


> The OP has had legitimate issues with the tune of his car. And you all bash him. :screwy:
> 
> And now another fellow with the exact same issues (sounds like it to me) and you all want to sympathies his problem. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> :thumbup:


:thumbup:


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## sspcivic31 (Nov 1, 2011)

simon-says said:


> The OP has had legitimate issues with the tune of his car. And you all bash him. :screwy:
> 
> And now another fellow with the exact same issues (sounds like it to me) and you all want to sympathies his problem. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


 Are you the OP's mom? 
Outside of some goofy causal logic how is it a software problem? 
Everything the op presented as a problem in this thread says coil problem. The thing that needs definition in this thread is misfire. 
The car can misfire without ever tripping a code. No combustion cycle is 100% perfect. The misfire counter incrementing is different than the ecu detecting a problem like the OP's and flagging a code. And disabling cylinder(s). 
Instead of blaming the software as a problem since you can't make the stock software run and fuel 20 psi of boost, you guys need to be looking at the crank and cam position signals on an oscilloscope to see what is happening under load both with and without the software tune. And make some informed Descisions instead of accusatory guesses.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

simon-says said:


> The OP has had legitimate issues with the tune of his car. And you all bash him. :screwy:
> 
> And now another fellow with the exact same issues (sounds like it to me) and you all want to sympathies his problem. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


How do you know it is not the hardware? 

The OP has been receiving feedback concerning his issue. He came back and said that his problems went away after flashing the car back to stock. There is more testing to do because that could be attributed to the flash creating more load on the components. Weak components being problematic is not a new issue when chipping a car. His next step is to use another software vendor. 

In the end, we have been giving his logical starting points to diagnose his problem. I gave him a list to start with, which included flashing back to stock. As a group, we can only go by what he shares with us. Is the information accurate on his part? Who knows? We will never know how "thorough" Schrottplatzer was in his tests.


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## NEW2B (Dec 1, 2006)

has similar issues right after k04 install.
changed all 4 coils, problem was solved.


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## bmllr8 (May 18, 2012)

sspcivic31 said:


> Are you the OP's mom?
> Outside of some goofy causal logic how is it a software problem?
> Everything the op presented as a problem in this thread says coil problem. The thing that needs definition in this thread is misfire.
> The car can misfire without ever tripping a code. No combustion cycle is 100% perfect. The misfire counter incrementing is different than the ecu detecting a problem like the OP's and flagging a code. And disabling cylinder(s).
> Instead of blaming the software as a problem since you can't make the stock software run and fuel 20 psi of boost, you guys need to be looking at the crank and cam position signals on an oscilloscope to see what is happening under load both with and without the software tune. And make some informed Descisions instead of accusatory guesses.


 I started losing sympathy and interest somewhere near post 44 and ending with post 73. There are plenty of smart people on here and in the beginning, people where willing to offer suggestions for helping. However a forum, and the world in general, can only take so many arm chair wizard and when I was in college statements before they turn on you. Learn how to interact with the community and you will be rewarded. I may be a noob on this forum but I learned this truth a long time ago.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

simon-says said:


> The OP has had legitimate issues with the tune of his car. And you all bash him. :screwy:
> 
> And now another fellow with the exact same issues (sounds like it to me) and you all want to sympathies his problem. :facepalm:
> 
> ...


 I agree. Well said :thumbup:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

I'm starting to get tired of APR! Customer Support very flawed, perhaps there in the U.S. to work, but here in Brazil is proving a shame and many people who were thinking about preparing their cars with the APR, seeing what has happened here are really thinking twice!


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## PeeLo801 (Apr 5, 2012)

any updates from OP?


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## T0neyDanza (Apr 25, 2007)

Sounds to me like he re-enlisted... Got a bonus. bought a car, bought all his new parts and said hey install this... now has no money left to buy the **** that matters. He dropped a ton a money on all this stuff with wheels and suspension etc, yet later complains at the price of spark plugs. 

APR is a stand-up company... Obviously they know what they are doing or they wouldn't be one of the largest names in the tuning industry. Stop being hard headed and listen to people here. I seriously wanted to quote so many peoples replies to you but could not stop reading through your whiney ass responses Mr. associates degree. BTW just because you sat through a few night classes, and rebuilt your dad's 1976 fastback whatever ( yes I made that up) does not mean you know everything about cars. The guys that do this for a living every day ie. the installers that did the work to your car, VW techs, and even the guys at APR that build ACTUAL race cars on these platforms still can't figure your car out based on what small amount of info you have given them. 

I'd take 90% of the peoples advice on here and try it. Stop pointing fingers at APR. Oh and the NEW ECU thing... seriously. You think they let you just try it out as a guinea pig. I'm sure their R&D guys took care of all the testing before releasing the product. I'm not saying their **** don't stink and it can't have flaw because we all know that's not true. I'm just saying stop being stubborn and pointing fingers. Swallow your pride and actually open your hood and start from scratch as if the k03 were still in there... With your vast amount of automotive knowledge it should be pretty easy from there. God I hope it's something simple that's just not plugged in all the way... yet you don't realize until you really break something and then warranty doesnt cover it. 

1. yes I'm an APR fanboy 
2. rant over. 
:heart:


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## T0neyDanza (Apr 25, 2007)

fea30boy said:


> I'm starting to get tired of APR! Customer Support very flawed, perhaps there in the U.S. to work, but here in Brazil is proving a shame and many people who were thinking about preparing their cars with the APR, seeing what has happened here are really thinking twice!


 Weird. I PM'd Arin today about some stage 3 questions and he responded within minutes. We actually had a good conversation back and forth about some technical crap I had concerns with. Now if he were out of country for a while I could understand a delay, but I have never had a problem ever being able to get a hold of them. As a matter of fact he is online right now. WEIRD!


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## NEW2B (Dec 1, 2006)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I took my list and car to Double J Motorwerks in Portland. They did a great job putting the below together in very quick time:
> 
> 2012 GLI: Volkswagen Racing Intake/Induktion Motorsports pipe. APR Stage III K04 kit, S3 FMIC, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" downpipe, Techtonics Tuning 2.5" Dual Borla exhaust, H&R Springs
> 
> .


 why did you go with a 2.5" downpipe? 
usually apr users will go with the recomended 3" downpipe.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

T0neyDanza said:


> Weird. I PM'd Arin today about some stage 3 questions and he responded within minutes. We actually had a good conversation back and forth about some technical crap I had concerns with. Now if he were out of country for a while I could understand a delay, but I have never had a problem ever being able to get a hold of them. As a matter of fact he is online right now. WEIRD!


 Good for you! And so what?


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

zucchini said:


> Good for you! And so what?


 I believe he is stating the fact the OP said their customer service sucks, which is not true.


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## T0neyDanza (Apr 25, 2007)

sh{}e said:


> I believe he is stating the fact the OP said their customer service sucks, which is not true.


 Thank you. 

I thought it was obvious with the quote that I posted above my comment.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

*News after 4k+ miles*

I spoke with APR this week and they are now acknowledging that there is a problem with this particular combo on some 2011 CCs and 2012 GLIs (same computer). They are working on a solution, but are lacking a test car at the moment. The customer service guy I spoke to was great. He didn't fix my problem, but was honest and up front about it. So now the waiting continues... :facepalm: 

It has nothing to do with spark plugs or coil packs.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I spoke with APR this week and they are now acknowledging that there is a problem with this particular combo on some 2011 CCs and 2012 GLIs (same computer). They are working on a solution, but are lacking a test car at the moment. The customer service guy I spoke to was great. He didn't fix my problem, but was honest and up front about it. So now the waiting continues... :facepalm:
> 
> It has nothing to do with spark plugs or coil packs.


 We already know about here in Brasil, and APR is doing a great job helping people like fea30boy to solve it. 
What makes me angry, is that there are some people that think they know everything, and keep posting BS...... 
:thumbdown:


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I spoke with APR this week and they are now acknowledging that there is a problem with this particular combo on some 2011 CCs and 2012 GLIs (same computer). They are working on a solution, but are lacking a test car at the moment. The customer service guy I spoke to was great. He didn't fix my problem, but was honest and up front about it. So now the waiting continues... :facepalm:
> 
> It has nothing to do with spark plugs or coil packs.


Good to know.. Hopefully a solution is found soon. 

:beer:


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## srobin01 (Aug 10, 2012)

It would be nice to hear something from APR on this issue. I am considering a 2013 GLI and I wanted to upgrade right away to a Stage II with intake and downpipe. I am now somewhat concerned that this is not a select issue. I may contact APR on my own....


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I haven't heard of anyone with the stage II problems on the GLI, it's just the Stage III K04 kit that seems to have the problem.


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## srobin01 (Aug 10, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I haven't heard of anyone with the stage II problems on the GLI, it's just the Stage III K04 kit that seems to have the problem.


A few threads in the Jetta VI Section:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5738721-GLI-Misfire-(-)-2200-RPM
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5757984-VW-vs-APR


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

srobin01 said:


> A few threads in the Jetta VI Section:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5738721-GLI-Misfire-(-)-2200-RPM
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5757984-VW-vs-APR


Damn, I guess it's worse than I thought.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I haven't heard of anyone with the stage II problems on the GLI, it's just the *Stage III K04* kit that seems to have the problem.


I sympathize with your issues. As many cars that we have done we have not ran into this but I also don't remember doing a 1767 ecu with one either. 

Also not trying to be overly critical but I saw it mentioned a couple times, *StageIII is not K04*


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Also not trying to be overly critical but I saw it mentioned a couple times, *StageIII is not K04*


I noticed most people don't call it Stage III, but on http://www.goapr.com/products/?vehicle=Jetta_MKVI it's beneath the Stage 3 tab Turbocharger Systems. Regardless it's a sad thing that it didn't work out. The car was wicked fast, but there were serious problems with the software. Now I've spent a lot of money on a brand new car, and watched the better part of the car season (both track and show) pass by while unable to play with my new toy. As someone once attempted to nip at me: Yes, I did get a bonus, and yes I did buy this car which would normally be outside of my means. It was a bonus for signing my final contract, making the car a physical result of my lifetime service. Pardon me for wanting to enjoy it.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Anyone have any updates from APR?


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Anyone have any updates from APR?


They did a new software for us here in Brazil............ but didn't work...... the car got worse, with misfires in every situation. Was based on the 98RON, now we are asking them to make a new based on the 104RON, that is almost perfect

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear that. I learned the other day that my "stock" tune isn't stock. The original VW software won't let you rev past 3k while in N. My APR "Stock" does. I wonder what the other differences are.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Anything new in Brazil? Here in the US, ten weeks later I've not heard a thing from them, only teasing promises of "maybe something next week"


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Anything new in Brazil? Here in the US, ten weeks later I've not heard a thing from them, only teasing promises of "maybe something next week"


No, no news! 

I think the division race and preparing for festivals takes them a long time, leaving the consumer that is the most important in background
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

One thing I say .......with the program 104RON the car is excellent, since it is hot enough. It is not appropriate, but as our gasoline has alcohol mixed, we can use (here's the best gasoline is 95 octane), but generates an ignition delay of approximately 4 ° with no misfires. 
That's why we are asking them to make a new software based on the 104RON. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> One thing I say .......with the program 104RON the car is excellent, since it is hot enough. It is not appropriate, but as our gasoline has alcohol mixed, we can use (here's the best gasoline is 95 octane), but generates an ignition delay of approximately 4 ° with no misfires.
> That's why we are asking them to make a new software based on the 104RON.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


BTW, we have seen another K04 showing misfires yesterday, even with that "misfire 1" program, right Fea30 boy?
And another friend of us is waiting for more than a week his "stage 3" program.......
Something goes wrong.....definitly!
:banghead:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

zucchini said:


> BTW, we have seen another K04 showing misfires yesterday, even with that "misfire 1" program, right Fea30 boy?
> And another friend of us is waiting for more than a week his "stage 3" program.......
> Something goes wrong.....definitly!
> :banghead:


:thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Well, at least they tried a fix for you, I have had nothing but "next week" stories since I bought the thing. My man at the local dealership know about it and has been steering people away from APR for their new cars. I'm getting a refund. What really pisses me off is that I bought the whole dang kit from them, not just the software. Without the software the rest of the kit is really useless. To top it all off you can buy the turbo, FMIC, and all that jazz from other sources for so much cheaper. I was willing to pay more to make sure I had the right thing. :banghead: 

This has been the worst customer service experience I've ever had with any company. I've had better fixes from foreign companies, and companies that had to special-make their product for me. This was a "box kit". 

I guess we know what side of the political spectrum APR is on, since they're "too big to fail"...


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Well, at least they tried a fix for you, I have had nothing but "next week" stories since I bought the thing. My man at the local dealership know about it and has been steering people away from APR for their new cars. I'm getting a refund. What really pisses me off is that I bought the whole dang kit from them, not just the software. Without the software the rest of the kit is really useless. To top it all off you can buy the turbo, FMIC, and all that jazz from other sources for so much cheaper. I was willing to pay more to make sure I had the right thing. :banghead:
> 
> This has been the worst customer service experience I've ever had with any company. I've had better fixes from foreign companies, and companies that had to special-make their product for me. This was a "box kit".
> 
> I guess we know what side of the political spectrum APR is on, since they're "too big to fail"...


 Yes, I agree..... 
I bought the whole kit too, including the software. 
Why don't you try GIAC over the k04? I read somewhere people was doing that and solving the misfires problems. Unfortunately we don't have a GIAC dealer here in Brazil........ But I'm thinking, in last case, to try the Unitronic soft,that is the other option here! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

Guys I went through the same stuff on here... I had a issue with apr sw and I knew 3 people that worked there and got no support from them... They gave me the run around and after i got reflashed 6 months later when they revised there file my issue went away. All of the apr fan boys on here just post the same thing... Throwing parts at a new car when you clearly posted you checked every thing. I would highly recommend you to see your local GIAC dealer and get your car flashed so you can enjoy it! They are having a sale right now so I would take advantage of it! Btw I just installed a k04 and giac high output file on a 11 gti and the car is a beast no issues! 

Ps I can pm you the link to my thread if you want to see it!


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

RSGLI said:


> Guys I went through the same stuff on here... I had a issue with apr sw and I knew 3 people that worked there and got no support from them... They gave me the run around and after i got reflashed 6 months later when they revised there file my issue went away. All of the apr fan boys on here just post the same thing... Throwing parts at a new car when you clearly posted you checked every thing. I would highly recommend you to see your local GIAC dealer and get your car flashed so you can enjoy it! They are having a sale right now so I would take advantage of it! Btw I just installed a k04 and giac high output file on a 11 gti and the car is a beast no issues!
> 
> Ps I can pm you the link to my thread if you want to see it!


 :thumbup:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I would love to do that, but I'm still stuck in the run-around. I'm considering small claims court since it's clearly either false advertising or a bait-and-switch. I'm still amazed that a company with such reputation and image simply doesn't care that they have product issues, and is so difficult to work with. I know I'm just a drop-in-the-bucket of their sea of customers....but making our situation right would also be just a drop-in-the-bucket of their capital.

What angers me most is that without the software the hardware is about useless, in fact the car feels a bit slower than stock, but so far talks have only been about adjusting my price for the value of the software. I bought a package!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

lolawsuit


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## piston (Oct 17, 2008)

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44574


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I would love to do that, but I'm still stuck in the run-around. I'm considering small claims court since it's clearly either false advertising or a bait-and-switch. I'm still amazed that a company with such reputation and image simply doesn't care that they have product issues, and is so difficult to work with. I know I'm just a drop-in-the-bucket of their sea of customers....but making our situation right would also be just a drop-in-the-bucket of their capital.
> 
> What angers me most is that without the software the hardware is about useless, in fact the car feels a bit slower than stock, but so far talks have only been about adjusting my price for the value of the software. I bought a package!


No customer is just a drop in the bucket for us. 

The K04 kit is one of the most popular kits we have, and it's currently running on over 500 TSI's at this point. 

We've just purchased a brand new CC to look into this issue further to see if it's anything we can find on our end. We will update everyone once we have an answer.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> No customer is just a drop in the bucket for us.
> 
> The K04 kit is one of the most popular kits we have, and it's currently running on over 500 TSI's at this point.
> 
> We've just purchased a brand new CC to look into this issue further to see if it's anything we can find on our end. We will update everyone once we have an answer.


Can't wait! Hope you guys find the answers! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> No customer is just a drop in the bucket for us.
> 
> The K04 kit is one of the most popular kits we have, and it's currently running on over 500 TSI's at this point.
> 
> We've just purchased a brand new CC to look into this issue further to see if it's anything we can find on our end. We will update everyone once we have an answer.


Excellent!


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

piston said:


> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44574


I've had this problem too, but also thought it was spool time or something. This is my first forced induction car. The problem is worst when trying to pull out from a stop. Kia Rios can beat me from a stop into traffic.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> No customer is just a drop in the bucket for us.
> 
> The K04 kit is one of the most popular kits we have, and it's currently running on over 500 TSI's at this point.
> 
> We've just purchased a brand new CC to look into this issue further to see if it's anything we can find on our end. We will update everyone once we have an answer.


500 TSIs is great, but how many of them are the ECU type on the '11 CC or '12 GLI. From what I understand it's not the same thing as the GTI computer.

If we're not just a drop in the bucket where the heck is my fix! This problem was pointed out in MAY, now in SEPTEMBER I've had no resolution. When I bought the kit I understood that being a 2012 there may be a few hick-ups, but that's why I chose APR! :banghead:

Please tell me next time you'll purchase the car BEFORE you release the software. :facepalm:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> 500 TSIs is great, but how many of them are the ECU type on the '11 CC or '12 GLI. From what I understand it's not the same thing as the GTI computer.
> 
> If we're not just a drop in the bucket where the heck is my fix! This problem was pointed out in MAY, now in SEPTEMBER I've had no resolution. When I bought the kit I understood that being a 2012 there may be a few hick-ups, but that's why I chose APR! :banghead:
> 
> Please tell me next time you'll purchase the car BEFORE you release the software. :facepalm:


Our other in house car using the same family ECU were k04, then stage 3, then 3+ and now further development's taking place. They don't have issues on that car. 

We do have a lot of CC customers. We don't see this issue on every car. That doesn't matter though, because regardless we now have another car for testing and we're looking into it to see if it's something on our end.


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

Schrottplatzer said:


> 500 TSIs is great, but how many of them are the ECU type on the '11 CC or '12 GLI. From what I understand it's not the same thing as the GTI computer.
> 
> If we're not just a drop in the bucket where the heck is my fix! This problem was pointed out in MAY, now in SEPTEMBER I've had no resolution. When I bought the kit I understood that being a 2012 there may be a few hick-ups, but that's why I chose APR! :banghead:
> 
> Please tell me next time you'll purchase the car BEFORE you release the software. :facepalm:


Man that's how they are now that they have your money.. I use to be a big Apr supporter till I could not get help. They have all the petty pics and advertising and crappy customer service and tech support. APR has had k04 stuff out for a while now so there should be any hick-ups with the kit especial since they have 500 kits on the road.. AWE had a issue with a few kits for the wastgates being miss adjusted but it was on a file they had GIAC to make for them to their specs...but that's was when they first released the k04 kit 3 years ago. A couple of People posted they had issues and they check into it to see what was the problem. During that time GIAC decided to make a file to their spec and it is amazing by the way to shut APR up with all the trash talking they did. Dude you should just ask for a refund and get the GIAC k04 high output file! At this rate waiting on APR it will be after the first of the year before you get a new file and hope it good. If you do desire to go that rout and you have a carbino stage 1 intake get rid of it and get a neuspeed intake so the car will run correctly because the carbino creates turbulence. Good luck I hope you get your issues resolved one way or another cause I know how you feel.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

New software just arrived here in Brazil, 98MSF2. Gonna flash and try it tomorrow! Let's see now. 
Another round against misfire! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

RSGLI said:


> Man that's how they are now that they have your money.. I use to be a big Apr supporter till I could not get help. They have all the petty pics and advertising and crappy customer service and tech support. APR has had k04 stuff out for a while now so there should be any hick-ups with the kit especial since they have 500 kits on the road.. AWE had a issue with a few kits for the wastgates being miss adjusted but it was on a file they had GIAC to make for them to their specs...but that's was when they first released the k04 kit 3 years ago. A couple of People posted they had issues and they check into it to see what was the problem. During that time GIAC decided to make a file to their spec and it is amazing by the way to shut APR up with all the trash talking they did. Dude you should just ask for a refund and get the GIAC k04 high output file! At this rate waiting on APR it will be after the first of the year before you get a new file and hope it good. If you do desire to go that rout and you have a carbino stage 1 intake get rid of it and get a neuspeed intake so the car will run correctly because the carbino creates turbulence. Good luck I hope you get your issues resolved one way or another cause I know how you feel.


 I have the Volkswagen Racing intake. The issue with the TSI k04 is that the '11CC and '12 GLI have different computers. That's the only thing different about the cars that we've been able to figure out. I have a deadline in my mind and then I'll likely take APR to court, report to BBB, and see what else I can do as a consumer to protect others from making the mistake of purchasing from APR. I've been civil for months, now I'm getting angry.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> New software just arrived here in Brazil, 98MSF2. Gonna flash and try it tomorrow! Let's see now.
> Another round against misfire!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


This is the second or third fix they've done for you guys in Brasil right? Where TF is the fix for the US?


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I have the Volkswagen Racing intake. The issue with the TSI k04 is that the '11CC and '12 GLI have different computers. That's the only thing different about the cars that we've been able to figure out. I have a deadline in my mind and then I'll likely take APR to court, report to BBB, and see what else I can do as a consumer to protect others from making the mistake of purchasing from APR. I've been civil for months, now I'm getting angry.


The ECU is different, this is the same conclusion we reached. Because A3 2007, have not had the misfire problems. MED17.5.2 is the problem to APR, 'cause the MED17.5 have no misfire issues! 
I think the VW racing intake makes it even worse tune the car. We have some friends here who put this intake and the car gets weird, with some flaws, back the OEM intake and the problem is solved.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> This is the second or third fix they've done for you guys in Brasil right? Where TF is the fix for the US?


Actually this is the second software. We are talking to them every week, sending then VCDS logs and test results we made by our own! 
I think they will find the answer soon, and than they are going to put the software on their server to all the dealers! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> Actually this is the second software. We are talking to them every week, sending then VCDS logs and test results we made by our own!
> I think they will find the answer soon, and than they are going to put the software on their server to all the dealers!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


Fernando, I was thinking about the Edu´s issue with the VW racing intake too. 
As far as we know, he solved going back to the KN inbox, despite he has another flash (not APR).

For sure this new ECU (2011/2012) has something diff from the old ones, and we can also think if its not diff from that used for the american market.

We can´t forget that our gas has a lot of Ethanol, and these cars come from Mexico, perhaps compatible with our gas.

I wouldn´t be surprised if the best program for us should have to be "timing agressive".....
:thumbup:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

zucchini said:


> Fernando, I was thinking about the Edu´s issue with the VW racing intake too.
> As far as we know, he solved going back to the KN inbox, despite he has another flash (not APR).
> 
> For sure this new ECU (2011/2012) has something diff from the old ones, and we can also think if its not diff from that used for the american market.
> ...


:thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

RSGLI said:


> Man that's how they are now that they have your money.. I use to be a big Apr supporter till I could not get help. They have all the petty pics and advertising and crappy customer service and tech support. APR has had k04 stuff out for a while now so there should be any hick-ups with the kit especial since they have 500 kits on the road.. AWE had a issue with a few kits for the wastgates being miss adjusted but it was on a file they had GIAC to make for them to their specs...but that's was when they first released the k04 kit 3 years ago. A couple of People posted they had issues and they check into it to see what was the problem. During that time GIAC decided to make a file to their spec and it is amazing by the way to shut APR up with all the trash talking they did. Dude you should just ask for a refund and get the GIAC k04 high output file! At this rate waiting on APR it will be after the first of the year before you get a new file and hope it good. If you do desire to go that rout and you have a carbino stage 1 intake get rid of it and get a neuspeed intake so the car will run correctly because the carbino creates turbulence. Good luck I hope you get your issues resolved one way or another cause I know how you feel.



Oh this is all just a big load of bull crap. RSGLI as operated as an Anti-APR, GIAC fan boy since 2007. If the sky fell tomorrow, I'm sure he'd find a way to blame APR.


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Oh this is all just a big load of bull crap. RSGLI as operated as an Anti-APR, GIAC fan boy since 2007. If the sky fell tomorrow, I'm sure he'd find a way to blame APR.


Arin I will be happy to post a copy of my receipt of the flash I paid for from my first mk5 GLI if you like I have no reason to lie about anything.. And the only reason I have a problem with APR is because of y'all crapy customer service!


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I have the Volkswagen Racing intake. The issue with the TSI k04 is that the '11CC and '12 GLI have different computers. That's the only thing different about the cars that we've been able to figure out. I have a deadline in my mind and then I'll likely take APR to court, report to BBB, and see what else I can do as a consumer to protect others from making the mistake of purchasing from APR. I've been civil for months, now I'm getting angry.


Oh ok haven't heard any reviews on that intake but I will make a few calls! Yea I know they are different.. the 12's ecu has a dirrernt processor and they have to have a different tool to flash them. So have you even asked for a refund for the SW? Man that court stuff is just going to drag things out even longer no to mention cost money.. I understand what you are saying though you have already been waiting a while and have not gotten anything.... try settle things with out that if possible.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

RSGLI said:


> Arin I will be happy to post a copy of my receipt of the flash I paid for from my first mk5 GLI if you like I have no reason to lie about anything.. And the only reason I have a problem with APR is because of y'all crapy customer service!


You can post it if you woud like, but anyone can search your name and find the thread from *2007*. 


Bottom line, as we've always said, if any APR customer has problems, just bring the car here and we'll look it over and fix it. We've always said this, and fortunately it rarely happens. :thumbup:


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> You can post it if you woud like, but anyone can search your name and find the thread from *2007*.
> 
> 
> Bottom line, as we've always said, if any APR customer has problems, just bring the car here and we'll look it over and fix it. We've always said this, and fortunately it rarely happens. :thumbup:


Yea here the thread from 07 when I had APR http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ith-Apr-Stage-2-Flash-After-VW-Reflash-Recall So this is where I became anti APR! And if y'all will have this guy the same way If nothing is done. Why don't y'all pick his car up and fix it then.. Y'all have already inconvenienced him for several months that's the least y'all could do... GIAC does not tell there customers that... Btw I understand these rare cases but take care of them as they come up instead of keeping people waiting for several months.


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## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

Please keep this thread clean and on topic pertaining to the issue at hand. 

- Anthony


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You can post it if you woud like, but anyone can search your name and find the thread from *2007*.
> 
> 
> Bottom line, as we've always said, if any APR customer has problems, just bring the car here and we'll look it over and fix it. We've always said this, and fortunately it rarely happens. :thumbup:


Arin I'm in Vancouver Washington. Give me per-diem and mileage and I'll drive down there, otherwise I'm not very willing to keep spending my money helping APR fix APRs problem. 

When APR refused to pay for a dyno I risked a ticket on EVERY data-log pull I made, not to mention the hours I've lost and my vendor has lost helping me.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Arin I'm in Vancouver Washington. Give me per-diem and mileage and I'll drive down there, otherwise I'm not very willing to keep spending my money helping APR fix APRs problem.
> 
> When APR refused to pay for a dyno I risked a ticket on EVERY data-log pull I made, not to mention the hours I've lost and my vendor has lost helping me.


:thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Arin I'm in Vancouver Washington. Give me per-diem and mileage and I'll drive down there, otherwise I'm not very willing to keep spending my money helping APR fix APRs problem.
> 
> When APR refused to pay for a dyno I risked a ticket on EVERY data-log pull I made, not to mention the hours I've lost and my vendor has lost helping me.


Good luck with that! You did not drive there to get flashed so why should you have to drive thousands of miles for them to fixed their problem as you stated. Well anyway you look at it is a loose loose.. I really hate to see threads like this.. It does not matter if it is apr, revo or any other companies they make a product for us the consumer and we spend our money on ther product and if it does not work like they advertise it they should own up and take Care of there customers to make them happy. I know you can't make them all happy but a case like this something should have been done a long time ago. Word of mouth can make or break a business so why take the chances of loosing sales and customers. Again good luck!


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

Subscribed.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

New software 98MF2 seems to be very good. Let's do some more testing and some measurements in different situations and temperatures.

But it seems that this time is going to work, despite the car being slightly weaker. Let's wait and see


Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> New software 98MF2 seems to be very good. Let's do some more testing and some measurements in different situations and temperatures.
> 
> But it seems that this time is going to work, despite the car being slightly weaker. Let's wait and see
> 
> ...


:thumbup:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Did not work! Misfire again, at 6300rpm

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

:facepalm: I don't know who's got it worse, you guys in Brazil with broken fix after broken fix, or us in the US with the cold shoulder.

Word is they have a CC now in the US for testing. Of course word was also that it was already tested before it was released.

I've been trying to figure out what APR stands for..Ain't Proven Ready? Alles pruft unregelmäßig? After Purchase Recall?

Like I said, I started this quietly, now, three months and 12,000+ views later...


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

*Good News for North America!*

Just shy of my 8,000 mile anniversary since the problems started APR now wants to fix it! No promises yet, but wouldn't it be cool to actually have 370 reliable hp?


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

Damn, just read thought all 6 pages. 

OP, did you end up swapping coil packs? If not, go do it just for ****s and giggles. It may fix your problem, it may not. If it does, then you just cured a 3 month headache in 20 minutes and can start enjoying your car. If it doesn't, then it would have shut half the people on this thread up. Also, if APR isn't doing it for you, cut your losses and go with the GIAC. Talk to a GIAC dealer and let them know about your issues with APR, and see if they will let you do a trial thing (like APR's 6 hour deal), to see if it takes care of the issue. If it does, then you know that it's the APR software, and that they should either refund you or somehow make it right. If it does NOT fix your problem, then you know that it's your car and not the APR software. 

APR, this is a shot in the dark, but to get the OP out of your hair, why don't you offer something like, a refund on the software he purchased from you if he goes with another company AND can prove via datalogs that their software fixed an issue that only shows up in yours?  OR, take the OP up on his request on getting his car over to you, paying for his time and mileage, ONLY if in deed that you do find that it was a flaw in the software that caused his car to misfire. It's playing with a lot of money, but if both parties are so dead set on the fact that they're the ones that are right, you guys should put your money where your mouth is. I'm sure all of vwvortex would like to see the outcome of this. 

To the Brazilian dude. From my understanding, the gasoline down where you are is MUCH different than the stuff we have here. Maybe that's causing your issues? I know you guys get E100 does there. Maybe have APR make an ethanol map for your market down there. Specific gravity for the fuel down your way may be totally different than our stuff. Another shot in the dark. 

Flame suit on. Blast away!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Surely it is our fuel, the problem is that they offer the product here, as announced there in the U.S. 
Our gasoline is a blend of 25% ethanol. I'm sure it is not far to hit the software, missing very little to be perfect from 104RON

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

9900rpm said:


> APR, this is a shot in the dark, but to get the OP out of your hair, why don't you offer something like, a refund on the software he purchased from you if he goes with another company AND can prove via datalogs that their software fixed an issue that only shows up in yours?


 Over the years, we've found that most issues can be narrowed down to simple hardware issues. Typically boost leaks, coil packs, spark plugs, or other common items are the cause of issues. 

Our reach on k04 installs world wide are in the 1000's and the number of complains we receive are extremely low. In most cases, as I've mentioned above, when there is an issue, it's due to some sort of mechanical issue that's fixed and the customer goes on happy. 

This customer has replaced several items, run logs, and done other things and we have not seen any clear indication of what could cause the issue. One of our own employees just purchased a CC and the first test we conducted was an install of a K04 kit. He had no problems. Our head calibrator owns a GLI, and he ran our stage 3 turbocharger system without an issue (Stage 3 is based on K04 code with variations based on the boost profiles of the turbo) and now is running a larger system. We simply have not found an issue on our end, and had we, we would not have released the software unless it was working. 

However, that said, we are going to take care of this guy. Rather than pay to ship his car here, we've scheduled to fly our lead Engineer and lead Technician to inspect his vehicle and analyze the calibration, in person. If we find a mechanical issue, we'll fix it and inform the customer of the issue. If we find an issue with the software that shows up on his vehicle that's not showing up on others, we'll figure out why, and apply an update. 

It's always easy to assume there's a simple answer to every issue, especially when sitting behind the desk, having never seen the vehicle, or having never seen any data. However we're not a company that jumps to conclusions, nor are we one that brushes off our customers when problems arise.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> However, that said, we are going to take care of this guy. Rather than pay to ship his car here, we've scheduled to fly our lead Engineer and lead Technician to inspect his vehicle and analyze the calibration, in person.


 Can you have em swing by Richmond, VA? I have been patient!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jspirate said:


> Can you have em swing by Richmond, VA? I have been patient!


 I appreciat your patients. Let's see what we can fined first, and we can take it from there.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I appreciat your patients. Let's see what we can fined first, and we can take it from there.


 :thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

To the Brazilian dude. From my understanding, the gasoline down where you are is MUCH different than the stuff we have here. Maybe that's causing your issues? I know you guys get E100 does there. Maybe have APR make an ethanol map for your market down there. Specific gravity for the fuel down your way may be totally different than our stuff. Another shot in the dark. 

When we talk about APR mods here, we talk about using the best gas we have, Podium Petrobras, that is 95 AKI, no matter how much Ethanol it has, cuz it´s already taken in account. When we say we got some problems, it´s all related to the new ECU MED 17.5.2, 2011/2012 engines. 
We have lots of K04 and stage 3 systems running very well, but all of them MED 17.5 ECU´s, with no problems at all. 
Besides we have hundreds of stage 1, 2 and 2+, where we can see an ignition timing more agressive than K04 or even stage 3, and the gas works just fine. 

We would be very happy to see APR developing E85 programs, cuz we could use them in our E100 with very good results and several "ponies" more...... 

Lets see what comes in future......


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

zucchini said:


> To the Brazilian dude. From my understanding, the gasoline down where you are is MUCH different than the stuff we have here. Maybe that's causing your issues? I know you guys get E100 does there. Maybe have APR make an ethanol map for your market down there. Specific gravity for the fuel down your way may be totally different than our stuff. Another shot in the dark.
> 
> When we talk about APR mods here, we talk about using the best gas we have, Podium Petrobras, that is 95 AKI, no matter how much Ethanol it has, cuz it´s already taken in account. When we say we got some problems, it´s all related to the new ECU MED 17.5.2, 2011/2012 engines.
> We have lots of K04 and stage 3 systems running very well, but all of them MED 17.5 ECU´s, with no problems at all.
> ...


 Looking forward to new programs! Right Zucchini

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> However, that said, we are going to take care of this guy. Rather than pay to ship his car here, we've scheduled to fly our lead Engineer and lead Technician to inspect his vehicle and analyze the calibration, in person. If we find a mechanical issue, we'll fix it and inform the customer of the issue. If we find an issue with the software that shows up on his vehicle that's not showing up on others, we'll figure out why, and apply an update.


 HOLY ****! Was deciding btw giac, apr, and unitronic for my stage 2 gti. Decision made. Customer support is rewarded with more customers.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> Looking forward to new programs! Right Zucchini
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


 Yesssssss!!!!!! 
:thumbup:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> However, that said, we are going to take care of this guy. Rather than pay to ship his car here, we've scheduled to fly our lead Engineer and lead Technician to inspect his vehicle and analyze the calibration, in person. If we find a mechanical issue, we'll fix it and inform the customer of the issue. If we find an issue with the software that shows up on his vehicle that's not showing up on others, we'll figure out why, and apply an update.


 tell him to bring some coilpacks in his luggage


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## 91 16V Jetta (Dec 6, 1999)

Thanks Arin and Schrottplatzer! :thumbup:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

zucchini said:


> When we say we got some problems, it´s all related to the new ECU MED 17.5.2, 2011/2012 engines.
> We have lots of K04 and stage 3 systems running very well, but all of them MED 17.5 ECU´s, with no problems at all.


 :thumbup: Thanks for making me not the only voice on this one. Arin has done a great job of playing down the situation. While not lying he has for some reason tried to make it sound like this is an isolated incident of freak chances when in reality people with MED 17.5 generally have no problems, and MED 17.5.2 it seems to be common. 

I'm glad APR is coming out here to take a look at my car, and another 2012 GLI with the same problem. Hopefully we can find a solution which can universally save the 2012 GLI Stage III K04 woes. I'd say it's awesome customer service, but really it's what should have been done three months ago. 

I look forward to meeting the reps and finding a solution.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> :thumbup: Thanks for making me not the only voice on this one. Arin has done a great job of playing down the situation. While not lying he has for some reason tried to make it sound like this is an isolated incident of freak chances when in reality people with MED 17.5 generally have no problems, and MED 17.5.2 it seems to be common.
> 
> I'm glad APR is coming out here to take a look at my car, and another 2012 GLI with the same problem. Hopefully we can find a solution which can universally save the 2012 GLI Stage III K04 woes. I'd say it's awesome customer service, but really it's what should have been done three months ago.
> 
> I look forward to meeting the reps and finding a solution.


 :thumbup: We're hoping here in Brazil too! Keep us updated! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

As someone that was very briefly in the performance modification/tuning business I have to say that apr going to the extent of flying two engineers away from their normal paid daily activity and putting them up in a hotel for a couple of days to address this issue is amazing customer support. The number of mechanical and electronics issues that affect the way a vehicle performs is too numerous to count. It's easy to blame the software because its something you can't check but in my experience problems are 99.9% mechanical/wiring/sensor related. In this case the op has obviously done all he can, logged everything, and followed apr's suggestions to the point they're willing to spend several thousand dollars to address the problem and see if it is software. I really hope there is a resolution and whatever it is is reported back to the community. If it is software, apr should make it right for you and compensate you for your time and frustration dealing with their problem. If its mechanical, I doubt you'll be asked to compensate apr for the expense of flying engineers to you and for their productivity lost during this episode but you should. Ether way in an industry with the margins as slim as this one, apr taking this on in this way is pretty incredible. This ((air travel+baggage+hotel+expenses+salary)*2+rental car) will wipe out a significant amount of revenue from their sales.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Schrottplatzer said:


> :thumbup: Thanks for making me not the only voice on this one. Arin has done a great job of playing down the situation. While not lying he has for some reason tried to make it sound like this is an isolated incident of freak chances when in reality people with MED 17.5 generally have no problems, and MED 17.5.2 it seems to be common.
> 
> I'm glad APR is coming out here to take a look at my car, and another 2012 GLI with the same problem. Hopefully we can find a solution which can universally save the 2012 GLI Stage III K04 woes. I'd say it's awesome customer service, but really it's what should have been done three months ago.
> 
> I look forward to meeting the reps and finding a solution.


 I have no doubt they will solve this issue. And it will be for good. 
:thumbup:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Let's hope so, I'm ready for this garbage to be over with. They are in the area now, and will start working on it Wednesday night. Poor guys have a lot of pressure on them, but then again so did my wallet when I forked out for an imperfect product.

The idea was brought up that maybe the injectors just can't handle the tune. If this is true it would mean that there are different injectors for the GLI/CC than GTI. Does anyone know is this is true?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Let's hope so, I'm ready for this garbage to be over with. They are in the area now, and will start working on it Wednesday night. Poor guys have a lot of pressure on them, but then again so did my wallet when I forked out for an imperfect product.
> 
> The idea was brought up that maybe the injectors just can't handle the tune. If this is true it would mean that there are different injectors for the GLI/CC than GTI. Does anyone know is this is true?



I hope this isnt True.. Just ordered the K04 for my 2012 GLI.. :banghead:

Please report back when issue is resolved! 

:beer:


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

OP, did you end up replacing the ignition coils or no? I think I, as well as a few others, have asked on this thread. I think we're all interested to know the answer to this question. If you've already answered and I missed it, I apologize.

dadasracecar, come on. It didn't take APR's response to convince you to go with APR. Easy to see you were an APR fanboy since you first post in here. APR flying out their people to look at this car may be played out to look like good customer service, but did you not read the rest of this thread? OP was going to, or was in the process of suing them. Seems like disaster recovery to me, and not customer service. If it was customer service, they would have taken care of this BS, as well as the Brazil dude, back in June when this all came to light. Looks more like it's spend some money now for disaster recover or spend a lot later should this issue make it to court.

APR, I take it you will post your findings with the OP's car on this thread, so the community will know if indeed it was an issue with the OP's car, or if it was the APR software he has?


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

9900rpm said:


> OP, did you end up replacing the ignition coils or no? I think I, as well as a few others, have asked on this thread. I think we're all interested to know the answer to this question. If you've already answered and I missed it, I apologize.
> 
> dadasracecar, come on. It didn't take APR's response to convince you to go with APR. Easy to see you were an APR fanboy since you first post in here. APR flying out their people to look at this car may be played out to look like good customer service, but did you not read the rest of this thread? OP was going to, or was in the process of suing them. Seems like disaster recovery to me, and not customer service. If it was customer service, they would have taken care of this BS, as well as the Brazil dude, back in June when this all came to light. Looks more like it's spend some money now for disaster recover or spend a lot later should this issue make it to court.
> 
> APR, I take it you will post your findings with the OP's car on this thread, so the community will know if indeed it was an issue with the OP's car, or if it was the APR software he has?


subscribed :thumbup:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

9900rpm said:


> OP, did you end up replacing the ignition coils or no? I think I, as well as a few others, have asked on this thread. I think we're all interested to know the answer to this question. If you've already answered and I missed it, I apologize.
> 
> dadasracecar, come on. It didn't take APR's response to convince you to go with APR. Easy to see you were an APR fanboy since you first post in here. APR flying out their people to look at this car may be played out to look like good customer service, but did you not read the rest of this thread? OP was going to, or was in the process of suing them. Seems like disaster recovery to me, and not customer service. If it was customer service, they would have taken care of this BS, as well as the Brazil dude, back in June when this all came to light. Looks more like it's spend some money now for disaster recover or spend a lot later should this issue make it to court.
> 
> APR, I take it you will post your findings with the OP's car on this thread, so the community will know if indeed it was an issue with the OP's car, or if it was the APR software he has?


:thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

9900rpm said:


> APR, I take it you will post your findings with the OP's car on this thread, so the community will know if indeed it was an issue with the OP's car, or if it was the APR software he has?


Yes, absolutely. If it's hardware, we'll say what it is. If we happen to find something strange in the software, and others have a similar issue, we'll apply the update to see if it fixes the problem.


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

9900rpm: my thoughts were and are genuine and I am in no way an apr fanboy. I don't own a single product that they make and until this thread was considering several of the tunes available. I've got ecs sways, vogtland springs, an awe tbe (shipped) and a homemade intake. I've also spent way to much time trying to tune customer's cars and troubleshooting seemingly tune related issues only to find wood screws holding MAFs down on improperly sized MAF housings, loose vacuum lines, wastegates hooked up wrong, spliced sensor wires, etc. I have rarely ever seen the tune responsible for poor performance and I do applaud APR for stepping up to this. As for a lawsuit, that is a lost cause. There are simply too many variables and without proof that the tune is the issue, there is no way apr would lose. The op would likely find the lawyer fees excessive well before it went to trial.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Yes, absolutely. If it's hardware, we'll say what it is. If we happen to find something strange in the software, and others have a similar issue, we'll apply the update to see if it fixes the problem.


Hey Arin............ You guys from APR are welcome here in Brazil too! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

dadasracecar, if you go through this thread, to the first page, you will see that it was started in June. The OP has had this problem for 3 months in his (at the time) ~1600mile old GLI. I believe it's safe to say that his MAF isn't held on by wood screws, and being that it's a Stage 2 car (if I'm not mistaken), I doubt he had to touch ANY vacuum lines as of yet. Would you agree with me to say that this car in question isn't a $h!+box? With that in mind, it has taken APR 3 months to come through with some legit help. Yes, they did answer emails, asking for datalogs and what not, but after a while, it looks as if they blew him off. Put yourself in the OP's shoes; you'd be mad as hell too. He paid money for the flash, and now has a poorer running car than what he started with. I'm not here to bash APR. I run an APR fully loaded ECU in my '08 GTi, and I'm real happy with it. Just want everyone to see things from all sides. Just know that it took the OP 3 months for some real action to be taken on an issue he had pertaining to an APR product. Yes this can be an isolated case with the OP's car, but it looks as if it isn't, as the dude from Brazil, with the same ECU, has the same issue with the same flash. Is it possible that both of these cars are hack jobs? Yes, but unlikely.

APR, I hope the OP's car, and the car from Brazil, gets figured out. It's a crappy situation, but good that it's been brought to light, so future APR flash owners won't have to go through this. No love lost for you guys.

OP, 3rd request, because I'm nosey, as is everyone else on this thread. Did you replace the ignition coils?


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Hi 9900rpm, 
As the OP doesn't answer I will. We replaced here in Brazil both the ignition coils and the spark plugs! Tested with different coil packs! 
Tested MAF, all joints........ everything is ok! 
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

9900rpm said:


> Is it possible that both of these cars are hack jobs? Yes, but unlikely.


My ECU was flashed at APR head quarters and after that I replaced LOTS of hardware trying to find the misfire problem with my 2011 k04'd CC. I am convinced this is not a hardware issue. 

I don't feel like APR is working hard enough to resolve my issue. I've sent loads of logs and talked in tons of PMs with Arin. This resulted in a new map and a second shipment of my ECU to APR. Its not that they haven't tried, but I feel like they haven't tried adequately. Their latest suggestion is for me to drive 14 hours one-way and leave my car with them for a couple of days so that they can trouble-shoot. That so easy for them to offer. It puts it all on me, the customer.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

I agree......... This is not a hardware issue! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

jspirate said:


> My ECU was flashed at APR head quarters and after that I replaced LOTS of hardware trying to find the misfire problem with my 2011 k04'd CC. I am convinced this is not a hardware issue.
> 
> I don't feel like APR is working hard enough to resolve my issue. I've sent loads of logs and talked in tons of PMs with Arin. This resulted in a new map and a second shipment of my ECU to APR. Its not that they haven't tried, but I feel like they haven't tried adequately. Their latest suggestion is for me to drive 14 hours one-way and leave my car with them for a couple of days so that they can trouble-shoot. That so easy for them to offer. It puts it all on me, the customer.


Sorry for the noob question

Is this on the same MED 17.5.2 ECU?

NVMD http://www.goapr.com/news/2011/10/1...ecu-upgrades-ccpassattiguaneosjettaglibeetle/


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

superwtc said:


> Sorry for the noob question
> 
> Is this on the same MED 17.5.2 ECU?


Yep

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

My last post didn't stick for some reason; I'll retype:

English is not my only language and so perhaps I haven't made a few points clear, Ill try to clarify.

1: I have not changed coil-packs, injectors, or anything else. The car runs fine without the tune, has issues only with the tune. If a hardware change is required beyond the recommended/required upgrades then either they should be included in the kit, or a warning should be made. I chose to buy a KIT, not a gamble on a pile of add-ons. If the software pushes stock hardware beyond it's capacity then replacements should definitely be made known or included.

2: I was never preparing a big nasty law suit. After three months (longer than most would wait) of run-around and no resolution I was looking at one or all of the following as a means of getting resolution.
a) Visa purchase protection because I did not get what I paid for and the company was not fixing the issue.
b) Small claims court for the value of the software and compensation for all the other parts I purchased and had installed in order to use the kit that are now basically engine jewelry. I am out more than just software. I have all the hardware required for this kit from intake to exhaust.
c) Better Business Bureau to hopefully reduce the chances of another consumer experiencing this.

3: My intent with this thread was to find out if anyone else was having this problem and what they had done about it, NOT to start a smear campaign or burn on APR. That part APR did themselves by trying to ignore the problem and representatives here on the forum not giving the whole truth of the matter. Other complications came from fan-boys and antis who derailed the conversation for a few pages. 

4: This is not a freak issue. There are more people with this than just the Brazilian and I, they have remained publicly quiet for some reason. Although they have not contributed to getting APR's response, I hope that the fix will be universal and apply to them too.

Let's hope the cure is found this week. I drop my car off tomorrow. I pitty the techs who will be working on my car, and another 2012 GLI in the area with the same issue, they have a lot of pressure on them, but most of that pressure has come from the issue not being handled 3 months (or in my case 8,000 miles) ago.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> My last post didn't stick for some reason; I'll retype:
> 
> English is not my only language and so perhaps I haven't made a few points clear, Ill try to clarify.
> 
> ...


:thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Any updates??

:beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

FLtrooper said:


> Any updates??
> 
> :beer:


Fixing things now............. updates soon.


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## atromos (Nov 14, 2010)

*me2*

had APR k04 installed as of yesterday around noon (07 gti FSI). have some "misfires", feels like the cars tires are slipping out of traction. install rep recommends spark plugs, from all the "coilpack" talk I'll pick that up too and return what I don't need.

DEFINITELY hopeful that it's some coilpack bs and not some ECU ghost issue like this dude has going on. I will 100% for sure check in with the solution. 

also, if APR is flying dudes out to help with your tune, then that has to be the most amazing customer support I've ever heard of. That's like not liking a meal at a diner so they drove gordon ramsey over to redesign the whole menu!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I got some updates last night before turning in for the night. Please pardon me if I've made any mistakes:

Reports are a misfire on 1 cylinders. Apparently there was a massive post MAF leak on the intake system. Some unknown intake part was not properly connected to the turbo via a coupler that was too big, so the intake was just flopping around. They've secured the connection, but the misfires continued. The intake filter was also heavily clogged so it was replaced with a new carbonio intake. 

100% of the misfires are on a single cylinder. All ECU Explorer data appears correct before the misfires. First the coil packs were swapped, but the misfire did not follow. The spark plugs were then checked and swapped, but again, the misfire did not follow. I headed off to bed and this morning I saw an update that they were pulling the intake manifold. Carbon buildup on the valves looked fine. The injectors are being swapped to see if the misfires follow. I'll have more updates soon.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I got some updates last night before turning in for the night. Please pardon me if I've made any mistakes:
> 
> Reports are a misfire on 1 cylinders. Apparently there was a massive post MAF leak on the intake system. Some unknown intake part was not properly connected to the turbo via a coupler that was too big, so the intake was just flopping around. They've secured the connection, but the misfires continued. The intake filter was also heavily clogged so it was replaced with a new carbonio intake.
> 
> 100% of the misfires are on a single cylinder. All ECU Explorer data appears correct before the misfires. First the coil packs were swapped, but the misfire did not follow. The spark plugs were then checked and swapped, but again, the misfire did not follow. I headed off to bed and this morning I saw an update that they were pulling the intake manifold. Carbon buildup on the valves looked fine. The injectors are being swapped to see if the misfires follow. I'll have more updates soon.


:thumbup:


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

So after the coil was swapped the Misfire was gone? 

That seems like good news! Not so nervous about doing this upgrade!

:beer:


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

FLtrooper said:


> So after the coil was swapped the Misfire was gone?
> 
> That seems like good news! Not so nervous about doing this upgrade!
> 
> :beer:


I don't believe that's what he means. When he said they swapped the coil and misfire did not follow, I would think that it means that the misfire did not follow the coil which was presumed to be bad. Example, if coil 1 is thought to be bad, and is swapped with coil 2, so coil 1 is in cyl 2, coil 2 is in cyl 1; cylinder 2 should now have the misfire. In this case, it does not; misfire still in cylinder 1, regardless of what coil is in there. APR, correct me if I'm wrong here.

What you guys might want to try is check the wiring for both the ignition coil on the misfiring cylinder, as well as the wiring for that injector. If there is a break or short in one of those wires, it may cause the misfire at higher rpm, where electrical load is higher. Also take a peek at the injector in that cylinder. Could be stuck open. Could be that these new GLI/CC's are leaving the factory with flaws.

APR, would you know if the misfire the OP is getting and the Brazilian dude with the misfire is in the same cylinder, or no?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm not sure on all the details yet, but you are correct, the misfires continued, on the same cylinder after swapping the coil packs / spark plugs. I also got a text recently that the injectors move didn't change the misfire as well. Grant's a master tech, so I'm sure he'll go through the wiring harness, but I'll pass along the info. Thanks!


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not sure on all the details yet, but you are correct, the misfires continued, on the same cylinder after swapping the coil packs / spark plugs. I also got a text recently that the injectors move didn't change the misfire as well. Grant's a master tech, so I'm sure he'll go through the wiring harness, but I'll pass along the info. Thanks!



Just a note... I replaced the engine wiring on my CC and it didn't stop the misfires. Not trying to be an a$$, just saying that I've done everything mentioned in this thread and it didn't work for me.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jspirate said:


> Just a note... I replaced the engine wiring on my CC and it didn't stop the misfires. Not trying to be an a$$, just saying that I've done everything mentioned in this thread and it didn't work for me.


Thanks for the update. The guys are still on it.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

9900rpm said:


> I don't believe that's what he means. When he said they swapped the coil and misfire did not follow, I would think that it means that the misfire did not follow the coil which was presumed to be bad. Example, if coil 1 is thought to be bad, and is swapped with coil 2, so coil 1 is in cyl 2, coil 2 is in cyl 1; cylinder 2 should now have the misfire. In this case, it does not; misfire still in cylinder 1, regardless of what coil is in there. APR, correct me if I'm wrong here.
> 
> What you guys might want to try is check the wiring for both the ignition coil on the misfiring cylinder, as well as the wiring for that injector. If there is a break or short in one of those wires, it may cause the misfire at higher rpm, where electrical load is higher. Also take a peek at the injector in that cylinder. Could be stuck open. Could be that these new GLI/CC's are leaving the factory with flaws.
> 
> APR, would you know if the misfire the OP is getting and the Brazilian dude with the misfire is in the same cylinder, or no?


Misfire in cylinder 2/3 at 6000-6300 rpm mostly, with program 104RON. Vag shows multiple misfire detected. Some times occur cylinder disabling too

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.


Very nice. Dying to know what it was


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## atromos (Nov 14, 2010)

following up with my 07 FSI GTI k04, new OEM iridium spark plugs gapped @ 0.028 (instead of 0.032) + 4 new coils and it's still hesitating right at 6500 rpm or so, just for a fire or two, never throwing a CEL. I did notice a small amount of oil in the coil/spark plug area, thinking thats a valve cover gasket. The misfires, or whatever they are, are becoming less and less noticeable after changing plugs + coils, but its still there. I'm not using an aftermarket intercooler, and only have aftermarket downpipe right now (intercooler is on its way).

Gonna take it back to APR rep on monday and see what they can find. Maybe a faulty injector or something... COULD be a lot of things, is there anything that sticks out or seems more likely with the FSI k04 ignition errors? I'm not going into limp or getting any CEL's, just some hesitation around redline. Any/all help is appreciated, thanks again to the APR reps for working their butts off.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Word on the street is both cars are working. Let's give it the weekend to see if anything changes. Once the engineers get back, I'll have all the details and I'll fill everyone in.


Looking forward to the update!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

jspirate said:


> Looking forward to the update!


Me too! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> Me too!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2



:thumbup:


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## Jayj (Jul 1, 2011)

Honestly, reading about what appears to be some obvious issues with the install as the first update, apr found, to this thread has me concerned with the knowledge of the installers and OP in regards to how this vehicle operates to begin with. Even after "8000 miles", simple things were not addressed before slinging mud at APR. 

Props to APR regardless of the outcome of the underlying issue causing the misfires, for stepping up to the plate on this.

Coming from an Audi/VW tech with 7 years experience. I've installed a few of these kits as an apr dealer. They do a great job of trying to take the guess work out the equation.


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

+1

It'll be very interesting to see what the final culprit was. Clearly there were mechanical issues allowing unmetered air into the k04 for as much as 8000 miles with presumably lots of wot runs logging and testing. I hope for op's sake that he hasn't damaged his motor. The fact that fixing this didn't cure the misfires does not bode well.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Anything New? 

:beer:


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

Jayj said:


> Honestly, reading about what appears to be some obvious issues with the install as the first update, apr found, to this thread has me concerned with the knowledge of the installers and OP in regards to how this vehicle operates to begin with. Even after "8000 miles", simple things were not addressed before slinging mud at APR.
> 
> Props to APR regardless of the outcome of the underlying issue causing the misfires, for stepping up to the plate on this.
> 
> Coming from an Audi/VW tech with 7 years experience. I've installed a few of these kits as an apr dealer. They do a great job of trying to take the guess work out the equation.


 I installed a few of these in my day and I am working with JSpirate on his issue. Trust me when I say that hardware is not the issue, unless we are dealing with "bad" hardware, but I don't see how that is possible. Since this is isolated to the newer ECUs, I'm convinced that this is the issue. Nevermind the random folks that pipe up with their older FSI engine and their coilpack and cam follower issues. If you look at the guys with the 2010+ engines, you will see a that it's an issue. Needless to say, I'm interested in the issue since it's been bugging me for nearly a year.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

ryan mills said:


> I installed a few of these in my day and I am working with JSpirate on his issue. Trust me when I say that hardware is not the issue, unless we are dealing with "bad" hardware, but I don't see how that is possible. Since this is isolated to the newer ECUs, I'm convinced that this is the issue. Nevermind the random folks that pipe up with their older FSI engine and their coilpack and cam follower issues. If you look at the guys with the 2010+ engines, you will see a that it's an issue. Needless to say, I'm interested in the issue since it's been bugging me for nearly a year.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## GLIMK6 (Sep 30, 2012)

Well after reading this thread, I went out and checked my MK6 GLI and no issues thus far at 5800 miles, with 1.4k with the KO4. Setup is below.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

*Solution possibly found!*

As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.

I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)

DJM made contact with APR and they wrote a new file for me. I've tested it a bit and so far so good! We may have a solution! It seems the problem stemmed from a failure to shift in third gear. This explains why it was not as prevalent in manual cars.

The unmetered air came from a coupler that turned out to be poor quality and had relaxed after all the heat. I bought the "stage II" intake pipe from a small company; trying to help the little guy. I'll get a better coupler and put the pipe back on. I'm running a cracked Carbonio with tape over it (APR's deciscion). 

In the possible end, I'm glad APR is attempting to provide the product they sold me, and many others. We may finally have an answer to this mix-up.

READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
-Was not hardware in any form
-Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
-FIXED for manual cars
-Nearly fixed for DSGs.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Nice! Can't wait to flash the final version! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

Schrottplatzer said:


> READER'S DIGEST VERSION:
> -Was not hardware in any form
> -Was an obscure line of code somewhere in the software
> -FIXED for manual cars
> -Nearly fixed for DSGs.



I have a straight drive and I am getting re-flashed on Friday (10/12). I will report back and see if its fixed!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.
> 
> I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)
> 
> ...


I have an issue not only in third gear, second gear too

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## human29 (Mar 21, 2003)

Schrottplatzer said:


> As the reports came to me it was a software issue, for the privacy of APR I won't give details.
> 
> I waited a few days to post because....10 miles after I picked the car up MISFIRES! They drove the car quite a bit, and said they couldn't get it to misfire, but it happened to me on the 405 on the way home, in Drive (not Sport or Manual mode.)
> 
> ...


Is this due to different coding in a different contry, or is this everwhere? About to pull the trigger on the K04 setup here in the states and this is scaring me.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

It all started with the '11+ CCs and 12+ GLIs having a different computer, then continued when the software map was a little different between those cars and the GTIs (who as far as I know never had a problem). APR had their top mechanical tech and top software tech on it for two days. You should be safe. :thumbup:


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## CommonGTI (May 30, 2003)

Schrottplatzer said:


> It all started with the '11+ CCs and 12+ GLIs having a different computer, then continued when the software map was a little different between those cars and the GTIs (who as far as I know never had a problem). APR had their top mechanical tech and top software tech on it for two days. You should be safe. :thumbup:


I wonder if this also goes for the non KO4 software as well? Where is Arin?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

From what engineering said, the misfires really didn't make sense. All data appeared perfect, right until they occurred. It was like hitting a brick wall and would not shift out of third (DSG). The misfires were on one cylinder, 3rd gear, right near redline. (Manual shift fine, automatic shift, not fine). They swapped the coil packs, spark plugs and injectors and the misfire did not follow. They checked for carbon buildup and it was fine. The MAF was unplugged to help rule out any leaks (Some were found and fixed), but there was no change. The car was run very lean to help rule out a fueling issue, but there was no change. IIRC other hardware was examined too. It's possible it could be mechanical, such as something in the head / valve train like we've seen on some FSI models with incorrect valve springs from the factory, however we don't have any data to support that and I don't want to assume that's the case and cause mass hysteria. We have people reporting misfires, and we have people with the same cars / transmissions / ECUs reporting no misfires. We even have our in house MK6 GLI MED17.5.2 with a stage 3/3+ (prototype) turbocharger system, on stock injectors, with no misfires what so ever (IE, higher power levels, more demand on the system). I would only expect misfires on higher power vehicles, so stage 1/2 should not have any issues at all, and we've had 0 reports from what I gather. In the end changes were made to get the car to a point where it would not misfire. IIRC, when the engineers left (Had to leave), it was fine, however they wanted to see if anything would change over the weekend (which it did) so the other files were updated. I have a few other people testing now. We'll be looking to get another car in house to dig into this future to find out what's going on. :thumbup:

So, if anyone has the misfire issue, please send me an email, and I'll get the updates out for you to try. [email protected]

Thanks!


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Happy to know that the issue has been fixed, after all the comments about.
Since the beginning some of us believed that was an ECU issue, only in the MED 17.5.2 due to a lot of reasons explained through the comments.

Living and learning......

:thumbup:


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

zucchini said:


> Happy to know that the issue has been fixed, after all the comments about.
> Since the beginning some of us believed that was an ECU issue, only in the MED 17.5.2 due to a lot of reasons explained through the comments.
> 
> Living and learning......
> ...


Agreed with this. Definitely nice to see this has a positive resolution. And selfishly, happy to hear the "fix" has been applied to all GLI K04 tunes, since I'll be getting mine ASAP. :thumbup:


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

NS01GTI said:


> Agreed with this. Definitely nice to see this has a positive resolution. And selfishly, happy to hear the "fix" has been applied to all GLI K04 tunes, since I'll be getting mine ASAP. :thumbup:


That´s it!
Enjoy it!!
:thumbup:


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Did the apply to DSG only K04 equipped GLIs? Were there manual cars that experienced the same issues?


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## bmain0407 (Oct 19, 2011)

joel redid the software on my gli and the misfires went from in the 5k range up to now happening at 6k and higher and misfiring worse then before in the 5k range. also mine is a 6spd. i upgraded my coils to audi r8 coils and i installed new spark plugs twice and that didnt help. hopefully soon it will be fixed


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## jetta03235 (Oct 13, 2012)

*k03 - k04*

can you use a k03 center cartridge on a ko4 turbo?


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

jetta03235 said:


> can you use a k03 center cartridge on a ko4 turbo?


I see you asked this same thing over and over again so figure you have your answer now?


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## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

I seriously doubt it's a software issue. I've had APR software on two different cars & well over 50K miles without issue. I'm currently running APR K04 software & kit on my 2012 GTI & my car runs flawlessly. I have had an issue with a coilpacks on my previous GLI though & was able to diagnose & repair the problem myself.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Fernando,

Did you try the last program? Better results? 
Post some info about.

Sydney


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

ina04gli1.8t said:


> I seriously doubt it's a software issue. I've had APR software on two different cars & well over 50K miles without issue. I'm currently running APR K04 software & kit on my 2012 GTI & my car runs flawlessly. I have had an issue with a coilpacks on my previous GLI though & was able to diagnose & repair the problem myself.


It might not be, but the file loaded last Friday has fixed the misfires on my k04. That said, APR is not claiming to me that the new file is the solution. Hopefully we will hear more about this in the near future.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

jspirate said:


> It might not be, but the file loaded last Friday has fixed the misfires on my k04. That said, APR is not claiming to me that the new file is the solution. Hopefully we will hear more about this in the near future.


:thumbup:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Flash today the new software, misfires again in 6480rpm

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> Flash today the new software, misfires again in 6480rpm
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


Holy S...!


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## genixia (Feb 8, 2002)

My experience with a bad injector harness on my 1.8T was that the car was virtually undriveable when the intermittent fault occurred, and perfectly fine when it did not. Its occurrence had no correlation with rpms, although the misfires were obviously more noticeable under load. Plumes of smoke out the exhaust too.

That problem saw my dealership 3 times and another in Ohio too, all without resolution. I eventually diagnosed the problem by tracing the harnesses with my fingertips, pushing lightly. As soon as I hit the break I could control the misfires like an on/off switch. 10 minutes with a soldering iron and I never saw the problem again in another 150k or so miles.

TLDR; Injector harness faults are tough to diagnose, but I don't think this is one.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

less talk, more lawsuit


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> less talk, more lawsuit


LOL someone modifies their car and something doesnt work and think you can sue?!? if its that big of problem go back to stock and return the parts


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

jettaglx91 said:


> LOL someone modifies their car and something doesnt work and think you can sue?!? if its that big of problem go back to stock and return the parts


Errr, I think you missed the point. This is not a magnuson-moss warranty act as it relates to a VW warranty. This is more about paying for a widget that doesn't deliver as claimed/promised by the manufacturer. That manufacturer is not VW. VW cars just happen to be what the widget is for. 

That said, I see no need to brig up anything having to do with a lawsuit. For now, I've chosen to work with APR to get things right. eace:


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

jspirate said:


> Errr, I think you missed the point. This is not a magnuson-moss warranty act as it relates to a VW warranty. This is more about paying for a widget that doesn't deliver as claimed/promised by the manufacturer. That manufacturer is not VW. VW cars just happen to be what the widget is for.
> 
> That said, I see no need to brig up anything having to do with a lawsuit. For now, I've chosen to work with APR to get things right. eace:


I didnt miss anything i was going off the previous persons quote. if someone agrees to modify their car and it doesn't work you cant just sue someone. APR didn't do irrevocable damage to your car or anything of that nature. If it came down to it, the car could be put back to stock and the parts returned. It wasnt aimed at you, merely that the lawsuit comment was ridiculous.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

jettaglx91 said:


> I didnt miss anything i was going off the previous persons quote. if someone agrees to modify their car and it doesn't work you cant just sue someone. APR didn't do irrevocable damage to your car or anything of that nature. If it came down to it, the car could be put back to stock and the parts returned. It wasnt aimed at you, merely that the lawsuit comment was ridiculous.


If the tune does not work as advertised, then there is a legal issue. The tune is not designed, sold or advertised to work as an OEM replacement. Its designed, sold and advertised to provide more HP and TQ. If it doesn't do so, then the money should be refunded. That is why people are getting torq'd. They spent money on something that doesn't work as the manufacturer claims its supposed to.

I am not trying to argue, just sharing my view of why people are upset. This is APR's moto (from their website):

*APR, Enhancing the Driving Experience with No Compromise.*

I view my misfires as a compromise. Again, I am not jumping on the legal bandwagon. For now, I've chosen to work with APR. I believe they want this fixed more than I do. If they don't fix it, they are going to hurt their reputation and lose business. No business wants to let its brandname become tarnished.

- peace out


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

jspirate said:


> If the tune does not work as advertised, then there is a legal issue. The tune is not designed, sold or advertised to work as an OEM replacement. Its designed, sold and advertised to provide more HP and TQ. If it doesn't do so, then the money should be refunded. That is why people are getting torq'd. They spent money on something that doesn't work as the manufacturer claims its supposed to.
> 
> I am not trying to argue, just sharing my view of why people are upset. This is APR's moto (from their website):
> 
> ...


just because something doesnt work its legal grounds to sue. If it doesnt perform as advertised or are un happy, return it and get your money back. Talking about legal action(especially when they are trying to resolve the problem) is just plain stupid. 

If you go to the store and buy a tv and it doesnt work right do you sue Sony, Samsung, vizio, etc? no you take it back if they cant fix the problem 

So either let them figure it out, or return the kit. Cryin about legal action is nonsense.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

jettaglx91 said:


> just because something doesnt work its legal grounds to sue. If it doesnt perform as advertised or are un happy, return it and get your money back. Talking about legal action(especially when they are trying to resolve the problem) is just plain stupid.
> 
> If you go to the store and buy a tv and it doesnt work right do you sue Sony, Samsung, vizio, etc? no you take it back if they cant fix the problem
> 
> So either let them figure it out, or return the kit. Cryin about legal action is nonsense.


And if the store doesn't take it back you are basically screwed. The little guy can't take on the big guy. The resources just aren't there. So, its silly to cry a legal cry, but that doesn't mean there isn't wrong doing.

The difference here is that when you go back to the store with your TV, you usually get a replacement that works. So, you don't really get screwed. In this case there is no replacement to give.

Sorry to be argumentative, but we are not dealing with CostCo or BestBuy and a third party product. Where I do agree with you is that I would work really hard to get refund before I started shouting on a forum.

Again, I am working for resolution first.


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## 91 16V Jetta (Dec 6, 1999)

My car was one of the cars APR flew out to Oregon to fix. So far so good (knock on wood).


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## bmain0407 (Oct 19, 2011)

fea30boy said:


> Flash today the new software, misfires again in 6480rpm
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


mine was relfashed and starts misfiring right around there too


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## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

Try to find an attorney that will take case such as this. It's not going to happen. Looks to me like APR is doing all they can to resolve the problem.


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

Has the problem been resolved? And also, are there any APR flashed k04 cars with MED 17.5.2 that are running with no misfires?


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

9900rpm said:


> Has the problem been resolved? And also, are there any APR flashed k04 cars with MED 17.5.2 that are running with no misfires?


yes lots. I think its still a mystery why there is a handful of cars with very similar issues, ita only a small percentage compared to how many are out there but still crappy none the less


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

I need to rephrase the question, as so far it seems (unless I missed something) that the cars with issues (misfires) are MED 17.5.2 equipped, APR flashed k04, DSG cars. My question would be, are there any cars out there that fit all of the above parameters that are running correctly with no misfiring? Also, are there any 6MT, MED 17.5.2 cars with APR k04 software running ok without misfires?


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

9900rpm said:


> I need to rephrase the question, as so far it seems (unless I missed something) that the cars with issues (misfires) are MED 17.5.2 equipped, APR flashed k04, DSG cars. My question would be, are there any cars out there that fit all of the above parameters that are running correctly with no misfiring? Also, are there any 6MT, MED 17.5.2 cars with APR k04 software running ok without misfires?



Mine is 6MT.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

9900rpm said:


> I need to rephrase the question, as so far it seems (unless I missed something) that the cars with issues (misfires) are MED 17.5.2 equipped, APR flashed k04, DSG cars. My question would be, are there any cars out there that fit all of the above parameters that are running correctly with no misfiring? Also, are there any 6MT, MED 17.5.2 cars with APR k04 software running ok without misfires?


the answer is still yes, ive personally done 3 with 0 issues thus far

Actually the only complaint Ive had was a customer complaining it seemed "laggy" down low in teh rpm after a couple days driving it. 

Turned out after the upgrade and it blazing the tires through 60mph he started "squeezing" the throttle rather then just flooring it. He thought it would make as much torque but not spin the tires. :banghead:


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

3 MED 17.5.2 APR k04 cars, or 3 MED 17.5.2 APR k04 DSG cars, with no issues?

I'm considering going this route in my MED 17.5.2 car (6MT). Just want to see how others are doing before diving head first into it. Misfires are no fun.


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## xplicit (Aug 30, 2009)

I've never been a APR fanboy by far but I am very impressed that they are stepping up trying to resolve this issue.

At the end of the day, gotta pay to play. Shouldn't of modded your car if you wanted it to be perfect day in and day out.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

9900rpm said:


> 3 MED 17.5.2 APR k04 cars, or 3 MED 17.5.2 APR k04 DSG cars, with no issues?
> 
> I'm considering going this route in my MED 17.5.2 car (6MT). Just want to see how others are doing before diving head first into it. Misfires are no fun.


I believe all three were dsg. I know 2 were as I drove them, the third I cant say for sure as I didnt drive it but pretty sure it was.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

So far we cant narrow it down to anything specific. However we now have one of the misfiring vehicle in house that we'll be working on to figure out what's going on. We'll update everyone when we figure out what's up.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> So far we cant narrow it down to anything specific. However we now have one of the misfiring vehicle in house that we'll be working on to figure out what's going on. We'll update everyone when we figure out what's up.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

Arin, the car you have there is an MED 17.5.2, k04 car? Is it DSG or 6MT?


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

9900rpm said:


> Arin, the car you have there is an MED 17.5.2, k04 car? Is it DSG or 6MT?


:thumbup:

Good question


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

91 16V Jetta said:


> My car was one of the cars APR flew out to Oregon to fix. So far so good (knock on wood).


I'm still running fine. How about you? Too bad we got the fix just in time for the GPNW rain... NOOO traction! :banghead:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Threaten to sue the weather man, I bet he'll fix it


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## 91 16V Jetta (Dec 6, 1999)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I'm still running fine. How about you? Too bad we got the fix just in time for the GPNW rain... NOOO traction! :banghead:


Yes, still good here too. Wish I was able to hit the track before the rain hit to see if they made it any faster. Thanks again for starting this post and weathering out all the bs. And thanks to Arin, Joel, Grant, and Dean for organizing the meeting. Since they have a misfiring car at APR now I am very anxious to find out if there is a hardware difference or just the computer. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

91 16V Jetta said:


> Yes, still good here too. Wish I was able to hit the track before the rain hit to see if they made it any faster. Thanks again for starting this post and weathering out all the bs. And thanks to Arin, Joel, Grant, and Dean for organizing the meeting. Since they have a misfiring car at APR now I am very anxious to find out if there is a hardware difference or just the computer. :thumbup:


Joel was working on the car the other day and did about 20 back to back to back passes and finally took it to the dyno. He couldn't get it to misfire once. Frustrating! We'll be back on it again soon.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)




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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> Threaten to sue the weather man, I bet he'll fix it


I ate vortex people now.. they always have to make stupid comments.. if you spent the money I bet you would want it to work and if not maybe get the service you need to fix it. But I understand. Its cause you are a baby member but back In the day when I joined vortex it was helpful and people actually had constructive things to say..:screwy:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

Misfire continues here in Brazil. With the new program it got worst. 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> Misfire continues here in Brazil. With the new program it got worst.
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


Hi Fernando,

I am very sad to know this, cuz I thought you already had your problem solved.

According to Arin they are working hard on it, and I hope you get it fixed soon.

What about the new IC? 

Cheers.


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## arcorl (Dec 1, 2011)

Eurolife69 said:


> I ate vortex people now.. they always have to make stupid comments.. if you spent the money I bet you would want it to work and if not maybe get the service you need to fix it. But I understand. Its cause you are a baby member but back In the day when I joined vortex it was helpful and people actually had constructive things to say..:screwy:


+1 to that!


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Eurolife69 said:


> I ate vortex people now.. they always have to make stupid comments.. if you spent the money I bet you would want it to work and if not maybe get the service you need to fix it. But I understand. Its cause you are a baby member but back In the day when I joined vortex it was helpful and people actually had constructive things to say..:screwy:


You obviously havent read the whole thread, nor have you spent much time on this section of the forum.
and lets be honest, that was funny lol 

If this was my car, I would have fixed it myself.
jus sayin

carry on :beer:


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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> You obviously havent read the whole thread, nor have you spent much time on this section of the forum.
> and lets be honest, that was funny lol
> 
> If this was my car, I would have fixed it myself.
> ...


wow you are funny... my buddy is the one that started this thread and i was in the car every time a malfunction happened.. i have been a vw mechanic for 14 years and i know when something is wrong with a tune.. i am just saying 30 people saying it is the coils and not actually knowing anything and then arguing instead of letting him get his point across... i would have done whatever it took to get a response.. maybe APR will learn a lesson from this... and put a tune out that is incomplete or not tested properly. it took 4 months and this thread to get a reaction and then another month to get it fixed... just saying, be constructive not destructive...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Eurolife69 said:


> maybe APR will learn a lesson from this... and put a tune out that is incomplete or not tested properly.


We did. 

None of our in house vehicles had this issue. This includes our MED 17.5.2 MK6 GLI 2.0T. The same vehicle is currently producing far more horsepower without any issues. 

We've taken the proper steps to identify users with issues, to ensure they don't have hardware issues, and have taken one of these vehicle in house in an attempt to figure out why it has an issue and why other identical vehicles don't.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> We did.
> 
> None of our in house vehicles had this issue. This includes our MED 17.5.2 MK6 GLI 2.0T. The same vehicle is currently producing far more horsepower without any issues.
> 
> We've taken the proper steps to identify users with issues, to ensure they don't have hardware issues, and have taken one of these vehicle in house in an attempt to figure out why it has an issue and why other identical vehicles don't.


I will be waiting! 
Looking forward for the news! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Eurolife69 said:


> i am just saying 30 people saying it is the coils and not actually knowing anything and then arguing instead of letting him get his point across


Actually, on the FIRST page I offered some troubleshooting steps. The purpose of troubleshooting is to eliminate the culprits. LOOK AT THE FIRST THING I MENTIONED TO DO:


> You are going to start having to eliminate all the changes made. I think #3 in the list could be the culprit. I would start with the following in this order:
> 
> *Flashing the car back to stock to rule out software.*
> Boost gauge install to check vacuum at idle. (indicate leaks)
> ...


The reason people kept insisting on hardware is because it is typically the issue on many cars. To many of us he did not seem want to troubleshoot but instead blame APR. I have a very strong engineering background and let me tell you. YOU DON"T ASSUME ANYTHING. In the end it was software but any item could have triggered those issues.




> and put a tune out that is incomplete or not tested properly


Just because an issue arises after a release does not make the tune incomplete. You can do all the testing in the world on a piece of software but bugs will always exist. Either way, I am glad that APR identified the issue, and the OP can enjoy his car.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Eurolife69 said:


> wow you are funny... my buddy is the one that started this thread and i was in the car every time a malfunction happened.. i have been a vw mechanic for 14 years and i know when something is wrong with a tune.. i am just saying 30 people saying it is the coils and not actually knowing anything and then arguing instead of letting him get his point across... i would have done whatever it took to get a response.. maybe APR will learn a lesson from this... and put a tune out that is incomplete or not tested properly. it took 4 months and this thread to get a reaction and then another month to get it fixed... just saying, be constructive not destructive...


So when the APR techs flew in to diagnose the issue on his car they fixed several HARDWARE issues....

Dont get your panties in a bunch, Im just poking fun @ OP for threatening a lawsuit and blatantly ignoring easy advice from people that are trying to help him.


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## 91 16V Jetta (Dec 6, 1999)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> So when the APR techs flew in to diagnose the issue on his car they fixed several HARDWARE issues....


My misfires were resolved by APR adjusting the code. There were no hardware or install issues that they told me about. And once the hardware install problems were fixed on the OP's car it was still misfiring. That was also resolved by the code change. Mine is working perfect now and I think his is too.

The question is, what is different our our cars than the GTI's that don't have problems other than coilpacks or spark plugs? Or was it really just the code? There are so many GTI's out there that are solid and making great power there has to be something.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Fernando,

Amanhã vou ver se consigo estar no Fabio qd vc for instalar o IC.

Abraços


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> We did.
> 
> None of our in house vehicles had this issue. This includes our MED 17.5.2 MK6 GLI 2.0T. The same vehicle is currently producing far more horsepower without any issues.
> 
> We've taken the proper steps to identify users with issues, to ensure they don't have hardware issues, and have taken one of these vehicle in house in an attempt to figure out why it has an issue and why other identical vehicles don't.


Thanks for making this a priority! 

Let me know if you want me to bring my vehicle to the APR HQ for R&D..


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## CommonGTI (May 30, 2003)

91 16V Jetta said:


> My misfires were resolved by APR adjusting the code. There were no hardware or install issues that they told me about. And once the hardware install problems were fixed on the OP's car it was still misfiring. That was also resolved by the code change. Mine is working perfect now and I think his is too.
> 
> The question is, what is different our our cars than the GTI's that don't have problems other than coilpacks or spark plugs? Or was it really just the code? There are so many GTI's out there that are solid and making great power there has to be something.


For one our ECU's are different from the GTI and just based on that alone makes the GLI "born different" from the rest. lol dumb joke but its true they are different ECU's


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

There were no install issues on my car. There was a failure of a silicone (or fake silicone) coupler. TO resolve that they replaced my air pipe (I refuse to call a tube "stage II") with a cracked carbonio they had laying around the shop. When they ran out of time they proclaimed it fixed and flew home. The next day I picked up the car and had misfires and EPC 10 miles down the road. :banghead:

My builder in Portland got ahold of them and they sent another revised file. I have had no issues since. The car now has 14,500 miles on it. It took them about 10,000 miles of driving time before they were willing to fix it, but I have over 3k on the fix and not a problem since. :thumbup:


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

opcorn:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

*Spoke too soon?*

It looks like I spoke too soon. :banghead: Saturday morning I had misfires, same symptom as before, same rpm band. What shocked me this time is I was not gunning it. I was going about 45mph and was just adding some throttle (comp says 52%) to get up to 60mph. :facepalm: and this time the CEL stayed on.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> It looks like I spoke too soon. :banghead: Saturday morning I had misfires, same symptom as before, same rpm band. What shocked me this time is I was not gunning it. I was going about 45mph and was just adding some throttle (comp says 52%) to get up to 60mph. :facepalm: and this time the CEL stayed on.


Wow..

I think I tried the same software you might of had and I still have the problems!

I have tried 3 different flash's from APR and still have the issues unless I put into the stock map! 

This Sucks!!!!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

FLtrooper said:


> Wow..
> 
> I think I tried the same software you might of had and I still have the problems!
> 
> ...


Here in Brazil we can apparently eliminate the problem, all the cars with the kit k04 did upgrade the intercooler and are perfect now, all parameters in VAG are perfect. Without misfires and much stronger! 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

fea30boy said:


> Here in Brazil we can apparently eliminate the problem, all the cars with the kit k04 did upgrade the intercooler and are perfect now, all parameters in VAG are perfect. Without misfires and much stronger!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2



I have an upgraded intercooler.. 


Glad its fixed down south! :beer:


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

FLtrooper said:


> I have an upgraded intercooler..
> 
> 
> Glad its fixed down south! :beer:


Sad to hear that! 
The only difference between here and there in US is the fuel. 
Which program are you running? Here all cars are using the 104RON with a fuel that is mix of gasoline and alcohol (25%) and is approximately 95 oct. 

Try different programs and fuels, that is what we did here 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I also have an upgraded intercooler. It was great that APR flew people out here, but I'm starting to really doubt their sincerity in fixing this. First they put a cracked intake pipe on my car, then said it was fixed and took off. 10 miles down the road I experienced the same misfires. There was another fix, and now misfires again, and the car sure doesn't feel like it pulls the way it did with the original broken software. 

I wonder if someone can make a custom dash insert for me: instead of the CEL coming on it should be the APR logo.

They may be working hard to fix this, but, as before, they're remaining quiet about it. I'd feel a lot better with phone call from them with an update.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

fea30boy said:


> Here in Brazil we can apparently eliminate the problem, all the cars with the kit k04 did upgrade the intercooler and are perfect now, all parameters in VAG are perfect. Without misfires and much stronger!
> 
> Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


Sounds like you had a boost leak from your IC piping


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> It looks like I spoke too soon. :banghead: Saturday morning I had misfires, same symptom as before, same rpm band. What shocked me this time is I was not gunning it. I was going about 45mph and was just adding some throttle (comp says 52%) to get up to 60mph. :facepalm: and this time the CEL stayed on.


Wouldnt it pretty much rule out software as its been fine for 3,000+ miles?


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Wouldnt it pretty much rule out software as its been fine for 3,000+ miles?


Good point. It would nice to have apr comment on what the "fix" was...


2010 GTI 4dr autobahn, APR stg2, AWE tbe, ECS sways, Vogtland springs, SS lines, Motul RBF600, Hawk HP+, tracked frequently.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Yea my reasoning is the software doesn't change once its in there. It will adapt fueling and such but wouldn't make any sense after 3K miles it would do it again if it was software. You probably dont wanna hear this but seeing has it was fine for awhile now you probably do want to look into plugs/coils.


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

opcorn: Every Time I read this thread it makes me LOL.. its sad people are still having this problem just to think of people who are not on the forms that have this issue so sad.. I guess that what happens when you go to there site with all that eye candy! Now I see why they don't have product customer reviews on their website!


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## genixia (Feb 8, 2002)

Or maybe all those people who aren't here on the forums complaining about this problem aren't here because they don't have it. 

I had Apr on my 1.8t for 165k miles without any problem, so I don't think that your speculative characterisation is fair. That said, as a stock 2.0t owner, I am watching this thread with interest.

sent via tapatalk.


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## RSGLI (Sep 10, 2006)

genixia said:


> Or maybe all those people who aren't here on the forums complaining about this problem aren't here because they don't have it.
> 
> I had Apr on my 1.8t for 165k miles without any problem, so I don't think that your speculative characterisation is fair. That said, as a stock 2.0t owner, I am watching this thread with interest.
> 
> sent via tapatalk.


Its hard to compare old technology to new technology 1.8t stuff is not as near as complicated as 2.0t tsi stuff. And i'm sure you and several thousands of customers have not had any issues with there 100,000+ mile 1.8t cars. For the money there are several other kits with no issues.. look at AWE there kit is way cheaper and makes more power with no issues and i have seen that first hand just saying... all this pretty eye candy is not always good! Also I would hate to not know what i know about cars and had a issue and post on here because the fix to every problem is freaking coil packs and spark plugs on low millage cars lol...! People just throw parts at the cars and waist money instead of properly diagnose the car. Just because VW had a issue with a part it does not mean its always the problem some times it could be something else. If I were you I would look at other options for modifying your car there are other companies out there like eurodyne, AWE, neuspeed, giac, CTS, Induktion Motorsports, unitronic.. and the list go's on. I don't know about you but I like getting the best bang for my buck! My main point is the OP and several others should have not been waiting this long to get this issue resolved with out a "*we will look in to it*" sooner and to me thats bad customer service.* I also will say most of the time it is hardware issue not SW* but if you have several people with the same issue it should have been looked in to a lot sooner.:wave:


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

I just had a 2013 GLI in this past weekend for a clutch upgrade, installed a k04 about month ago and car runs perfect. 

As far as alot of people blaming plugs/coils you gotta remember they were an issue for many years, no matter how many miles are on the parts. The greater stress on that part there is a chance of them not working properly. For example there is a known issue on the TTRS with messed up plug gaps. A $60K car that the factory didn't get the gaps right somehow. Many cars range from .022-.030.

Not saying it is def plugs/coils but not a bad place to start considering it ran fine for 3k miles. Keep in mind the OP's car has I think like 20k miles on it now if I read correctly, and logically if its been fine for some extended period of time it would most likely rule out software.


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

Yeah, there's got to be a mechanical issue if it ran fine for 3k miles. Leaky injectors or bad coils/plugs would be the first place I'd start. 


2010 GTI 4dr autobahn, APR stg2, AWE tbe, ECS sways, Vogtland springs, SS lines, Motul RBF600, Hawk HP+, tracked frequently.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I just had a 2013 GLI in this past weekend for a clutch upgrade, installed a k04 about month ago and car runs perfect.
> 
> As far as alot of people blaming plugs/coils you gotta remember they were an issue for many years, no matter how many miles are on the parts. The greater stress on that part there is a chance of them not working properly. For example there is a known issue on the TTRS with messed up plug gaps. A $60K car that the factory didn't get the gaps right somehow. Many cars range from .022-.030.
> 
> Not saying it is def plugs/coils but not a bad place to start considering it ran fine for 3k miles. Keep in mind the OP's car has I think like 20k miles on it now if I read correctly, and logically if its been fine for some extended period of time it would most likely rule out software.



Tom, Im glad that the 2013 you installed the K04 on works great. I wish I could say the same about my 2012 GLI. I also have a APR K04 that is having misfire issues. I can't speak for the others with the claimed issues but Before making any type of stink I tried different 2 Different type of Plugs, 3 Types of Coils, And Different gaps on the plugs. These spare parts I bought have been a waste of money along with the HOURS it takes to just drive to and from the shop to get each re-flash. 

I can replicate the issue over and over at the same RPM in the same gear on any of the THREE (3) APR K04 maps I tried. I am unable to replicate the issue on the stock map nor did the vehicle have any misfire issues when stock with the stock turbo. The K04 was installed around 3k miles and the vehicle now only have 5k miles.

I really hope an answer is found soon so not only I can enjoy my vehicle!


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

FLtrooper said:


> Tom, Im glad that the 2013 you installed the K04 on works great. I wish I could say the same about my 2012 GLI. I also have a APR K04 that is having misfire issues. I can't speak for the others with the claimed issues but Before making any type of stink I tried different 2 Different type of Plugs, 3 Types of Coils, And Different gaps on the plugs. These spare parts I bought have been a waste of money along with the HOURS it takes to just drive to and from the shop to get each re-flash.
> 
> I can replicate the issue over and over at the same RPM in the same gear on any of the THREE (3) APR K04 maps I tried. I am unable to replicate the issue on the stock map nor did the vehicle have any misfire issues when stock with the stock turbo. The K04 was installed around 3k miles and the vehicle now only have 5k miles.
> 
> I really hope an answer is found soon so not only I can enjoy my vehicle!


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Again Im not saying on any specific car it is the plugs/coil just doesnt hurt to check on the OP's since it was fine for some period of time.


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Tom,
I appreciate the logic, and had considered it for a second, until I pulled the codes and got the exact same codes at the exact same rpm as before. 
It puzzles me that other people post about installing a K04, not having issues, and wondering why a few of us do. It's obviously not the K04 that causes the issues, it's the specific combination of parts and software that are included with one specific vendor's kit.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Tom,
> I appreciate the logic, and had considered it for a second, until I pulled the codes and got the exact same codes at the exact same rpm as before.
> It puzzles me that other people post about installing a K04, not having issues, and wondering why a few of us do. It's obviously not the K04 that causes the issues, it's the specific combination of parts and software that are included with one specific vendor's kit.



I have narrowed it down to our specific ECU's (GLI and CC) or perhaps the gearing difference has some effects. 

I can't think of any other Major difference between us and the GTI's that don't experience these issues. 

opcorn:


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## GLIMK6 (Sep 30, 2012)

I may be having a similar problem...when I first read this thread my car was doing fine, but just today in 3rd gear at about 6500 rpm's my car hesitated then had flashing CEL. I don't have any means to run logs, but is this similar to whats going on? I've read on other threads it may be the clutch, but not sure if a blinking CEL is an indicator of that. 

Setup: 
'12 GLI AB 6MT | APR: KO4, Stage II CAI, DP/ MP, IC | Borla 2.5" CB | VWR CAI | Awe TOP


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

GLIMK6 said:


> I may be having a similar problem...when I first read this thread my car was doing fine, but just today in 3rd gear at about 6500 rpm's my car hesitated then had flashing CEL. I don't have any means to run logs, but is this similar to whats going on? I've read on other threads it may be the clutch, but not sure if a blinking CEL is an indicator of that.
> 
> Setup:
> '12 GLI AB 6MT | APR: KO4, Stage II CAI, DP/ MP, IC | Borla 2.5" CB | VWR CAI | Awe TOP


 Sounds like a misfire


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## GLIMK6 (Sep 30, 2012)

So I tried to repeat the issue in Stock mode while in 3rd gear and everything was good. 

Changed it to 91 Octane program to do it in second gear (not a lot of road space) same thing happened; flashing CEL then it stayed on permanently and gave me a 0303 code. My first reply above was on 93 Octane program 3rd gear. What's next?


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

GLIMK6 said:


> So I tried to repeat the issue in Stock mode while in 3rd gear and everything was good.
> 
> Changed it to 91 Octane program to do it in second gear (not a lot of road space) same thing happened; flashing CEL then it stayed on permanently and gave me a 0303 code. My first reply above was on 93 Octane program 3rd gear. What's next?


 In your case I'm guessing your 3rd coilpack is going. Stock mode doesn't put as big of a strain on these items as the tuned modes do. Clear the codes, swap your third coil (cylinders go passenger side-1-2-3-4-drivers side) with your first coil and see if the code switches to P0301. If so, you need a coilpack. Or you could just buy all new coils..the red R8 coils HS Tuning has for like 15 bucks a piece.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

GLIMK6 said:


> So I tried to repeat the issue in Stock mode while in 3rd gear and everything was good.
> 
> Changed it to 91 Octane program to do it in second gear (not a lot of road space) same thing happened; flashing CEL then it stayed on permanently and gave me a 0303 code. My first reply above was on 93 Octane program 3rd gear. What's next?


 
Welcome to the CLUB! :thumbdown::thumbdown: 

You have the exact same issue I have been having. Go ahead and buy some new Coil-Packs.. I actually bought some fancy R8 coils and other updated Coils, you will see that the problem will not go away. 


This is a issue that ONLY seems to effect 2011-up CC's and 2012-up GLI's because we have a different type of ECU and other things different then the GTI. 


Mine does not have any issues in stock and I only have issues with the K04 map in 2nd and up gears at around 6k rpm's. I can feel the misfires around 5500 rpm's at times but don't get a CEL until about 6k. 

You will also get a P3000 code and other Misc. Misfire codes if you try some more. Every once in awhile I get the EPC light to stay on and thats when things really seem bad. 

Contact me for more information or questions, I have been dealing with this for almost 30 days and have gotten little help... 


For more information check out.. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5889065-APR-Arin 

opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

FLtrooper said:


> Mine does not have any issues in stock


 That's normal for almost every issue out there and really has no correlation to this problem. It's quite similar to walking a mile (stock) vs running at a 4 minute mile pace (k04). It's way more difficult to run than walk, and when running, if you're having any problems, they'll show up much more quickly. 



FLtrooper said:


> I have been dealing with this for almost 30 days and have gotten little help...


 That's absolutely not true. We are actively working on this every day. It's a top priority of ours. It's pulled engineers off other projects and we're even paying to have a vehicle here for diagnose on our dime. WE WANT A SOLUTION. We want it much more than any of you could ever want it too. 

I understand you are upset,but please, getting more and more upset will not make the issue go away any faster.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

GLIMK6 said:


> I may be having a similar problem...when I first read this thread my car was doing fine, but just today in 3rd gear at about 6500 rpm's my car hesitated then had flashing CEL. I don't have any means to run logs, but is this similar to whats going on? I've read on other threads it may be the clutch, but not sure if a blinking CEL is an indicator of that.


 How many miles have been on your car since k04'd?


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> *Originally Posted by FLtrooper *
> I have been dealing with this for almost 30 days and have gotten little help...
> 
> That's absolutely not true. We are actively working on this every day. It's a top priority of ours. It's pulled engineers off other projects and we're even paying to have a vehicle here for diagnose on our dime. WE WANT A SOLUTION. We want it much more than any of you could ever want it too.
> ...


 I def gotta agree with this. Arin acknowledge the problem like 2-3 weeks ago and sent engineers across the country to try and resolve the situation. I dont know what some of the other people here do for a living but if you have customers and know there is a problem with a product, and tell them 

"Hey we know something isn't right we are working on a solution, give us some time as soon as we have an answer we will let you know" 

But then continually(usually multiple times a day) post in multiple threads that you have gotten little to no help doesn't do anything proactive for the issue, especially when you know for a fact they have acknowledged and are working on it. 



Also on a side note this kind of stuff is what causes mass hysteria. For those that have had their car k04'd for some extended period of time then have in issue the odds are slim to none it is software. Software on the ecu doesn't change so if you put thousands of miles on the car with no issue and now have a problem what logical reason would it be the software? None! 

But because of this everyone with a problem on a k04 car will think its software. 


I have misfires after 1k, 5k, 20k miles- must be the software 

My clutch slips when I try to launch from 6k rpm - must be the software 

I got a flat on my way to work after k04 install - must be the software


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## GLIMK6 (Sep 30, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> How many miles have been on your car since k04'd?


 
appr. 3,000 miles 

my car currently has Appr. 7,800 miles and it was installed at around 4,800 miles. I probably went over 5k rpms about 10 times, if that, and 3 of those were today.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> That's absolutely not true. We are actively working on this every day. It's a top priority of ours. It's pulled engineers off other projects and we're even paying to have a vehicle here for diagnose on our dime. WE WANT A SOLUTION. We want it much more than any of you could ever want it too.
> 
> I understand you are upset,but please, getting more and more upset will not make the issue go away any faster.


 Im not going to argue this over the internet. 

But basically in the last 30 days. I Called tech support ONCE and was blown off, I was given two other tunes to try that failed (which was on MY DIME), and I only get updated information if I first send a request via PM for updated information. 

You (Arin) have been helpful and I have done nothing but praise your help but please understand that our situations are different. I have to live with this issue everyday. I have tried to be nothing but patient and understanding though you must understand through my eyes and the others with this issue it may seem like not much is being done. 

I'm not trying to work against APR and I am willing do anything possible to help! 

:beer:


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## arcorl (Dec 1, 2011)

jettaglx91 said:


> I def gotta agree with this. Arin acknowledge the problem like 2-3 weeks ago and sent engineers across the country to try and resolve the situation. I dont know what some of the other people here do for a living but if you have customers and know there is a problem with a product, and tell them
> 
> "Hey we know something isn't right we are working on a solution, give us some time as soon as we have an answer we will let you know"
> 
> ...


 I definitely have to disagree with you! :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy: 

Some of these people have been waiting for months for help and a fix. 

If your car did this for several months – your tune would change. 

BTW – my tune made my clutch go out and my tires to go bald!


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

arcorl said:


> I definitely have to disagree with you! :screwy::screwy::screwy::screwy:
> 
> Some of these people have been waiting for months for help and a fix.
> 
> ...


 
I'm not disputing that people have been waiting or dismissing that it sucks for those people, but PLEASE tell me how saying the same thing multiple times a day, day after day(including over a holiday) makes any sense?

They know some cars have a problem and are trying to find the solution but doing that isn't going to magically make the problem fix itself

Btw- I'm afraid ur probably serious with that last part, I work direct with consumers and that comment doesn't seem too far fetched nowadays lol


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

FLtrooper said:


> I was given two other tunes to try that failed (which was on MY DIME),


 im confused by this, why did you have to pay for updates


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## arcorl (Dec 1, 2011)

jettaglx91 said:


> I'm not disputing that people have been waiting or dismissing that it sucks for those people, but PLEASE tell me how saying the same thing multiple times a day, day after day(including over a holiday) makes any sense?
> 
> They know some cars have a problem and are trying to find the solution but doing that isn't going to magically make the problem fix itself
> 
> Btw- I'm afraid ur probably serious with that last part, I work direct with consumers and that comment doesn't seem too far fetched nowadays lol


 i was being serious haha - along with that damn ESP button - but the car is now fun to drive. 

I agree on the multiple posting; however, I have called APR support and a couple of the guys there need some customer service classes because of their arrogance, not listening and assuming all their customers are newbies. 

I know a couple of the people who are having this problem on the GLI’s and are using this forum as a tool to get help because they are literally helpless at this point because APR won’t refund them their hard earned money. 

I understand what you are saying about the repeat posts but why does APR push away the problem customers who want to help find a solution? For example, one of them offered to drive to APR to help find a solution and lives in Florida. I would be all over that as a business owner!


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## arcorl (Dec 1, 2011)

jettaglx91 said:


> im confused by this, why did you have to pay for updates


 he had to pay a shop labor time to load the tunes plus he drove an hour each way to get the trial/fix tunes. 

APR - should have ate that cost


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> I'm not disputing that people have been waiting or dismissing that it sucks for those people, but PLEASE tell me how saying the same thing multiple times a day, day after day(including over a holiday) makes any sense?
> 
> They know some cars have a problem and are trying to find the solution but doing that isn't going to magically make the problem fix itself
> 
> Btw- I'm afraid ur probably serious with that last part, I work direct with consumers and that comment doesn't seem too far fetched nowadays lol


 When I am asked via PM or on the message boards about my issue I reply with what has been done as far as updates. If I get asked everyday I will post everyday. 

Holiday or not I still have to LIVE with my car So that is not relevant. 

I don't expect being vocal is going to magically fix anything but it did get your attention.. didn't it?  




jettaglx91 said:


> im confused by this, why did you have to pay for updates


 I can't exactly flash my own vehicle.. 

The shop I have been going to is 1 hour away each way. 

Are you still confused?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

arcorl said:


> he had to pay a shop labor time to load the tunes plus he drove an hour each way to get the trial/fix tunes.
> 
> APR - should have ate that cost


 
Well technically I just have an outstanding bill because the shop that was nice enough to help me out is cool enough to not actually charge me until the problem is resolved. 

But if you want to add up wear and tear, fuel, and my time.. it isn't cheap! 

:thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Fl trooper, where are you located??

Also, im going to post something outrageous.... Have any of you ever considered dumping apr? As someone memtioned, you are the one stuck everyday trying to live with an annoying car...
At this point i would have just gone with someone else.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> Fl trooper, where are you located??
> 
> Also, im going to post something outrageous.... Have any of you ever considered dumping apr? As someone memtioned, you are the one stuck everyday trying to live with an annoying car...
> At this point i would have just gone with someone else.
> ...


 
Located in the Naples/Ft. Myers area... Why? 

I can't speak for the others but I have considered going with another tune BUT I paid for a product and just want the product to perform as advertised. Another tune is going to cost atleast $500 that I don't want to spend unless needed. 

:wave:


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

arcorl said:


> he had to pay a shop labor time to load the tunes plus he drove an hour each way to get the trial/fix tunes.
> 
> APR - should have ate that cost





FLtrooper said:


> When I am asked via PM or on the message boards about my issue I reply with what has been done as far as updates. If I get asked everyday I will post everyday.
> 
> Holiday or not I still have to LIVE with my car So that is not relevant.
> 
> ...


 
Actually he didn't pay anything yet. Im not trying to minimize what he went through and the time/gas, but i see no reason he would have to pay for the reflash itself(which he has not). And if you pay for the reflashes when its all done then your dumb let apr and the dealer figure that out. 

It didn't get my attention in any positive manner though. I have been following this thread and I know you have to so you know Arin has addressed the issue and is working on it but continually act like no one knows there is a problem or even cares. 

For example the other day you conversed with Arin after he said they were working on it and seemed amicable and then less then 24hrs later "im still waiting for an update " or something of that nature 

But it is all relevant, we all no ur car isn't working right but you gotta be reasonable at the same instance. I know it doesnt fix the problem but knowing they are working on it can't you drive normal for now instead of driving around at 5k rpm and letting it ruin your life?


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

arcorl said:


> i was being serious haha - along with that damn ESP button - but the car is now fun to drive.


 I figured you were, where is the thread bitching how APR owes you new tires?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> Actually he didn't pay anything yet. Im not trying to minimize what he went through and the time/gas, but i see no reason he would have to pay for the reflash itself(which he has not). And if you pay for the reflashes when its all done then your dumb let apr and the dealer figure that out.
> 
> It didn't get my attention in any positive manner though. I have been following this thread and I know you have to so you know Arin has addressed the issue and is working on it but continually act like no one knows there is a problem or even cares.
> 
> ...


 

Actually If I owe money then its money spent. The shop told not to settle up until everything was right (Good Business). If APR wants to step in they are more then welcome! 

I like how your turning this around as if I am the perpetrator. But the truth is I am the VICTIM along with the others who bought a product with unknowingly faults and has not performed as advertised. 

Maybe your on the retailer side so your perception is skewed? But on the consumer side when someone says they are working on it. I think expecting updates via email, pm, phone, etc.. as often as possible is Good Business. 

I don't drive the car around at 5k rpm's because I can't. 

If you would like to talk via phone please send me a PM with a request and we can talk more about this. 

Otherwise Ciao! :wave:


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

jettaglx91 said:


> Actually he didn't pay anything yet. Im not trying to minimize what he went through and the time/gas, but i see no reason he would have to pay for the reflash itself(which he has not). And if you pay for the reflashes when its all done then your dumb let apr and the dealer figure that out.
> 
> It didn't get my attention in any positive manner though. I have been following this thread and I know you have to so you know Arin has addressed the issue and is working on it but continually act like no one knows there is a problem or even cares.
> 
> ...


 I think it's time you cool it and back out of someone else's issues. :thumbup:


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## KevinFACE (Sep 15, 2011)

It's posted on a forum, it's everyone's issue to chime in on now.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

I mean, you both have a point.
Sure the guy wants his car to rien right at all times, but at Tue same time, accordingly, Apr is doing all they can to fix the issue.

In this case, the so called victim should patiently wait, and instead of bothering the company, you should help by not hitching complaining, and above all, don't freaking rev the far so much... I honestly don't see the reason why to rev the car to 5k.every so often.

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

arcorl said:


> I understand what you are saying about the repeat posts but why does APR push away the problem customers who want to help find a solution? For example, one of them offered to drive to APR to help find a solution and lives in Florida. I would be all over that as a business owner!


 We don't. When someone first mentioned an issue as I asked if they could come here, and no one could. Next, one of our employees bought a CC, we installed the k04, and he had no misfires. Then we flew two of our engineers across the entire country in an attempt to diagnose the problem on cars with the issue, but we needed more time. Finally we located a car and brought it in house for further diagnosis. :thumbup:


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

Forgive me if this is too simplistic but no info has been posted on what apr suspects as the problem. When a car misfires, there's inadequate fuel or no spark. From a software pov that should be fairly simple to identify. The misfires are repeatable and have been logged. That should give the specific rpm and conditions resulting in the fuel or spark issues creating the misfire. It would seem to be a fairly simple task for the tuner to locate the appropriate tables in the tune and see if there are any weird values associated with this rpm and conditions. Failing that or some errant valve timing, etc. which should be locatable fairly quickly, it has to be hardware. Please enlighten us as what else is going on. Maybe the conditions are are right a the edge of some logic parameters and causing the car to try to switch from one set of map tables to another?


2010 GTI 4dr autobahn, APR stg2, AWE tbe, ECS sways, Vogtland springs, SS lines, Motul RBF600, Hawk HP+, tracked frequently.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

thygreyt said:


> I mean, you both have a point.
> Sure the guy wants his car to rien right at all times, but at Tue same time, accordingly, Apr is doing all they can to fix the issue.
> 
> In this case, the so called victim should patiently wait, and instead of bothering the company, you should help by not hitching complaining, and above all, don't freaking rev the far so much... I honestly don't see the reason why to rev the car to 5k.every so often.
> ...


 The so called Victim? If you buy a faulty product you are a victim. 

Sure I want my car fixed as you stated.. But the truth is I would of gone another route if I was aware of the issues I now have. 

Freaking out so much? Im complaining as any consumer would do if they owned a faulty product. I have sent very few PM's to APR/ARIN and have only called them once. 

Patiently wait? Put your self in my shoes or perhaps any of the others with the same issues.. I installed product that has cost me over $2,500 now that I am unable to enjoy and it has been this way for over a month. 

The car is in Stock Mode to avoid the issues and or any possible long term damage. Therefore it hardly is ever driven over 5k rpm's. 

:wave: 



dadasracecar said:


> Forgive me if this is too simplistic but no info has been posted on what apr suspects as the problem. When a car misfires, there's inadequate fuel or no spark. From a software pov that should be fairly simple to identify. The misfires are repeatable and have been logged. That should give the specific rpm and conditions resulting in the fuel or spark issues creating the misfire. It would seem to be a fairly simple task for the tuner to locate the appropriate tables in the tune and see if there are any weird values associated with this rpm and conditions. Failing that or some errant valve timing, etc. which should be locatable fairly quickly, it has to be hardware. Please enlighten us as what else is going on. Maybe the conditions are are right a the edge of some logic parameters and causing the car to try to switch from one set of map tables to another?


 I am unaware of any specific's to the problem. I have been advised like all others that APR is working hard to resolve the issue. 

:wave:


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## vadimr (Jul 21, 2012)

I feel like after all this it is going to be something simple and problem solved. At least that's what I hope. Apparently, not every person that works for APR is like Arin, but I am sure they will do their job. Nothing much to do now besides patiently wait and continue to follow up.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

FLtrooper said:


> The so called Victim? If you buy a faulty product you are a victim.
> 
> Sure I want my car fixed as you stated.. But the truth is I would of gone another route if I was aware of the issues I now have.
> 
> ...


 Just to say......... Here in Brazil a K04 kit is about US$8000,00. 
All cars here are fine now, thanks to our local dealer and friends, to our own efforts testing and mainly to our fuel

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

fea30boy said:


> Just to say......... Here in Brazil a K04 kit is about US$8000,00.


  Wow. I'd be driving a Honda...


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

nick0188 said:


> Wow. I'd be driving a Honda...


 
And a brand new 2013 Jetta 2.0 TSI is about US$ 45.000,00....................so definitely it´s not an entry level car here!:banghead:


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

fea30boy said:


> And a brand new 2013 Jetta 2.0 TSI is about US$ 45.000,00....................so definitely it´s not an entry level car here!:banghead:


 
:thumbup:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Specifics are known, and as I understand it, it's not so much the code etc as it is the way the computer is functioning/reacting. In the end it is still a faulty/incomplete product, but they are working on it. 

I know this is a public forum, but I'd appreciate it if those not affected/ haven't seen or experienced it would just sit back and watch. I began this thread looking for others who might be experiencing it or possible solutions. It's obvious now that it's not something that the average Vee Dubber can fix with garage wisdom. 

What's different about the fuel mixture in Brazil? I noticed a performance change when I brought my car (not this one obviously) with me back from Germany, and it soon proved to be the fuel.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Specifics are known, and as I understand it, it's not so much the code etc as it is the way the computer is functioning/reacting. In the end it is still a faulty/incomplete product, but they are working on it.
> 
> I know this is a public forum, but I'd appreciate it if those not affected/ haven't seen or experienced it would just sit back and watch. I began this thread looking for others who might be experiencing it or possible solutions. It's obvious now that it's not something that the average Vee Dubber can fix with garage wisdom.
> 
> What's different about the fuel mixture in Brazil? I noticed a performance change when I brought my car (not this one obviously) with me back from Germany, and it soon proved to be the fuel.


 I assumed it was ECU related... 

opcorn:


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Schrottplatzer said:


> Specifics are known, and as I understand it, it's not so much the code etc as it is the way the computer is functioning/reacting. In the end it is still a faulty/incomplete product, but they are working on it.
> 
> I know this is a public forum, but I'd appreciate it if those not affected/ haven't seen or experienced it would just sit back and watch. I began this thread looking for others who might be experiencing it or possible solutions. It's obvious now that it's not something that the average Vee Dubber can fix with garage wisdom.
> 
> What's different about the fuel mixture in Brazil? I noticed a performance change when I brought my car (not this one obviously) with me back from Germany, and it soon proved to be the fuel.


 Our gas has 22-25% of Ethanol, and we believe that this is the reason why program 104 RON is working in the K04 2011/2012 GLI Jetta. (running a 98 RON gas) 
Everytime we did some logs, the maximum "timing pulling" is around 3 or 4 , so it´s not a big deal to run this program. 
I think that Fernando (fea30boy) could explain this a little better.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Official threads 

Here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat) 
Here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...SI-K04-MED17.5.2-Misfire-Issue-(GLI-CC-Passat) 


*Background:* 

Recently it has come to APR’s attention some 2.0 TSI EA888 vehicles equipped with K04 turbochargers and APR K04 software are experiencing misfires in the upper RPM range. Documented cases primarily exist on newer MK6 GLIs, CCs and Passats with MED 17.5.2 ECUs. However, some customers with nearly identical setups and identical software on these same platforms and others are not experiencing issues. 

*Diagnosis:* 

APR’s Engineers have spent countless hours diagnosing vehicles through both hardware and software analysis. Ultimately it was discovered that vehicles experiencing misfires were equipped with weaker exhaust valve springs from the factory. In fact, these weaker springs show roughly 10% less stiffness as shown on a spring dynamometer. These vehicles have identical Engine codes and exhaust valve part numbers as those with the proper valves. Unfortunately VW’s dealership parts system (ETKA) does not indicate a part change. Furthermore, APR has had a test vehicle in house for over a month with this issue. The issue was repeatable by anyone who drove the car. Since changing the springs to the appropriate stiffness the car has not experienced a single misfire on the production V2.0 calibration. 

The photo below illustrates known good vs known bad factory valve springs. 










The issue occurs when exhaust backpressure (coupled with the natural forces in a valve train) is high enough to cause the exhaust valves to stay open during the intake stroke. During this time, the intake valves are open and exhaust pressure is flowing back through the intake and into the intake manifold. In doing so, data will show a false rise in boost pressure and a corresponding drop in mass airflow. The car will then cease to accelerate, will eventually blink the Check Engine Light, disable the cylinder and throw the car into limp mode with a fault code for misfires. 

In all cases we’ve seen these problems will not exist at stock output levels, or even at Stage 1 or 2 power levels due to lower exhaust backpressure. Furthermore, Stage 3 and 3+ vehicles are not experiencing these issues to date. This may sounds odd but the reason is simple. Stage 3 consists of a significantly larger manifold, turbine wheel, and wastegate therefore reducing the backpressure one would see with a high output K04. 

The issues these vehicles have faced are very similar to one existing on some Audi S3 and TTS vehicles in the past. Ultimately it was determined by Audi the valve springs were weak enough to cause issues even on completely stock vehicles, so Audi released a Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) advising dealerships how to replace the problematic parts. 

*Solutions:* 

The primary solution to this issue is to replace the valve springs with a set of higher rated springs. The problematic vehicle we diagnosed in house received new valve springs and the issue completely disappeared with NO changes to the existing APR K04 MED17.5.2 software. 

A secondary workaround to this issue is a software file that reduces engine output in the upper RPM range ultimately reducing back pressure. Peak torque remains consistent between the old and new software so despite having lower output, the vehicle still feels fast. This software can be made available upon request. 

*Home Diagnosis:* 

We are not stating that ALL misfires on every K04 car are caused by exhaust valve spring issues. As you all know, there are many possible sources for engine misfire. Some examples include: bad coil packs, fouled spark plugs, faulty fuel delivery systems, etc. This failure mode happens in a specific way that typically involves having misfire that is localized to Cylinder #3 (sometimes Cylinder #2) in the upper RPM band. The car will typically cease to accelerate once the problem is encountered. 

Before concluding you may have weak exhaust valve springs, you should have already diagnosed the car through Vag-Com logging, swapping coil packs, swapping spark plugs, and maybe even changing the injector. Instructions for logging a vehicle using Vag-Com can be found here: http://www.goapr.com/support/datalogging.php 

To check what valve springs you have, you can remove the PCV: 



















And attempt to inspect the color bands on the exhaust valve springs. 



















Please refer to the image above for known good and bad valve spring color bands. 

Thank you for your patience during our diagnosis and Go APR! 

-Arin


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

Wow. 


2010 GTI 4dr autobahn, APR stg2, AWE tbe, ECS sways, Vogtland springs, SS lines, Motul RBF600, Hawk HP+, tracked frequently.


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## fea30boy (Jul 20, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

:thumbup:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Wow. It's great that the solution may have finally been found!  This has been going on for 7 months now.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

merry christmas to you guys!!!


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

WHAAAAAAAAT??? So it wasn't the software?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jettaglx91 said:


> WHAAAAAAAAT??? So it wasn't the software?


Correct.

The car runs flawlessly on the production software with the correct valve springs installed.


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## GlfSprtCT1 (Feb 9, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> Correct.
> 
> The car runs flawlessly on the production software with the correct valve springs installed.


Hmm.. who woulda thought APR actually knows how to tune cars..


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

This is almost as big a development as when sliced bread was first introduced by
Pierre LeSlice back in the 1700's. For the uninformed, it came about during a 
sword duel over a wench in a tavern. When LeSlice missed his opponent and instead
struck the solid loaf of bread on a nearby table with a downward stroke, someone called
out, 'Do it again, LeSlice'! After the second stroke, two slices of bread now appeared on the
table and the man who had instigated the slicing called to the bar keep for some salted
meat. Placing it between the two slices, a new invention was born. P.S. - The man who had
called out to LeSlice was the Earl of Sandwich and that invention bear's his name to this
day.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

GlfSprtCT1 said:


> Hmm.. who woulda thought APR actually knows how to tune cars..


you know it. 

I hate to say it to some but, I told you so. Obviously wasn't as simple as a coil or something but figured from day one it was hardware related.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Supertech offers a 2.0TSI Valve Spring/Titanium Retainer Set at www.intengineering.com
that sells for $369.99 Item # ST-TSI-SPRK-A2416. Set includes a complete set of 16 springs
and retainers. In addition to increasing the spring rate, they reduce the mass of the retainer
by using titanium. Titanium provides an adwquate fatigue life to be acceptable for all but the
highest mileage street use. These will allow usage of 8000rpms. Is anyone familar with them?

Also found what are supposed to be the best available ones - Ferrea (Valve Spring/Retainer Kit
for 2.0T TSI) Part # FER-TSI-SRKIT but they were listed at an eyepopping $607.56.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> you know it.
> 
> I hate to say it to some but, I told you so. Obviously wasn't as simple as a coil or something but figured from day one it was hardware related.




The software I have was not designed for the weaker exhaust springs in my engine. So that seems like a software issue..

:thumbup:


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

This is getting ridiculous! Did we get what we paid for? No! Was it possible for APR to foresee that in one model year, on two specific cars with one specific computer that VW would change their valve springs? No! 

Those of us who purchased and had issues are no way at fault, and APR didn't know this was going to be a problem.. Drop it with the childish "I was right" garbage and be happy we found the source of the problem. I'm sure APR will find a way to make it right for those of us who purchased but, due to unforeseen circumstances either can't get the numbers as advertised, or have to spend more money on a set of valve springs.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

Take a look in the mirror. The ridiculousness come from people on your side. Before there was a known issue the couple of u wanted to bash apr, threaten lawsuits, etc. Yet now that there is a problem from Vw I haven't seen one of you apologize to APR. A simple "hey guys sorry for being an a-hole" would suffice lol



No you didnt get what you paid for but it wasnt APR's fault. Maybe you can now sue VW. Lol

What's it matter what I say, just like you didn't wanna let anyone tell u different when insisting it was software. You guys dished a bunch out, not get all bent out of shape that someone threw it back at you.


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## jettaglx91 (Jul 27, 2004)

FLtrooper said:


> The software I have was not designed for the weaker exhaust springs in my engine. So that seems like a software issue..
> 
> :thumbup:


Your such a tool lol

I guess if you have a boost leak and APR didn't tune for that, must be a software issue huh


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

jettaglx91 said:


> Your such a tool lol
> 
> I guess if you have a boost leak and APR didn't tune for that, must be a software issue huh


Wow! :thumbup:

Does this problem relate to you? Or effect you personally or your business some how? 

I bought an item that was "Tested", "Tuned", "Advertised" Etc..to work for my specific vehicle. The item did not and still does not work on my specific vehicle as advertised. 

I have publicly thanked Arin for assisting, There is nothing more to argue!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

FLtrooper said:


> I bought an item that was "Tested", "Tuned", "Advertised" Etc..to work for my specific vehicle. The item did not and still does not work on my specific vehicle as advertised!


I don't want to add insult to injury, but I just don't agree with this. However, I do have deep sympathy for your predicament.

Sometimes oem components simply need to be upgraded. On older cars, it was nearly always the DV. Some had the upgraded valve that was fine, while others had one that would fail and leak. Thankfully those had part numbers written on them and they were easily replaced.

Some oem clutches are fine even at k04 power levels. I had a k04 customer with 80k on his oem clutch and I can only say he must have driven that clutch very softly. However if his clutch did slip, he would have potentially two options. 1. Change the clutch or 2. Reduce output.

On the fsi, the early cam design was soft, and over time would wear. When this happened, less high pressure fueling was available and the cars would hit fuel cut conditions, especially when tuned. Was this the software fault? 

The unique problem with this situation is that it's not commonly thought of as a problem to many and its hard to replace. However, after speaking with a few oem friends and engine builders I'm finding more information on valve float. We know it was a problem on the oem k04 fsi engines enough to cause a TSB to be issued and it may be because the wrong springs were installed from the factory. That may be the case here. It may be a case where depending on the factory that built the engine, the wrong springs were installed. I only offer this suggestion because we cannot find any changes in the oem part number across all of the designs, however they are clearly different. That said, from an oem standpoint they may not be considered 'wrong' because they are strong enough for the oem engine output.

At any rate, we will be researching further.

I'd like anyone with this problem to do the following:

1 list your engine code ( this is on the barcode sticker on the left side of the engine)
2 list where the engine was made (this is on the window sticker)
3 list the color bands on your exhaust valves


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

What is the procedure look like to change the valve springs on a TSI engine? What is the estimated labor in a shop?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I don't want to add insult to injury, but I just don't agree with this. However, I do have deep sympathy for your predicament.
> 
> Sometimes oem components simply need to be upgraded. On older cars, it was nearly always the DV. Some had the upgraded valve that was fine, while others had one that would fail and leak. Thankfully those had part numbers written on them and they were easily replaced.
> 
> ...



Arin, I will go public and admit I am sorry for any type of scrutiny from this whole ordeal. Once Again I will applaud APR and yourself for stepping up and being the, "Better Person". 

Frustration and Anger can often cloud ones judgment, In the end it has only added to the turmoil. 

I also appreciate that you understand the predicament that the others and I have experienced. It is not easy to stand on both sides of the proverbial, "Fence". 

I will send and post the data later for further understanding. The last thing the others or myself want is for someone else to go through this. 

I am putting all this past me and looking towards the future. In the end I still hope to have that, "APR" experience I often hear about.

Next time I am in "BAMA" I will drop in! :beer:


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## 91 16V Jetta (Dec 6, 1999)

I'm looking on my phone so I may not see it, but you might want to put a disclaimer on your website about this. Sounds expensive.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Interesting.
I wonder if this was by design or just a bad batch of parts?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

Maybe a different subcontractor to help fill demand as the 2.0 TSI gets put on more and more cars worldwide. My engine was built in Germany, but has the bad springs.:banghead:


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## jetta03235 (Oct 13, 2012)

*a i have. but thay were all no*

and yes im useing A k03 center cartridge on a ko4 turbo and its bad ass.. thanks


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

jetta03235 said:


> and yes im useing A *k03 center cartridge* on a ko4 turbo and its bad ass.. thanks


k03 center cartridge?


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## Audi'sRevenge (Mar 24, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> At any rate, we will be researching further.
> 
> I'd like anyone with this problem to do the following:
> 
> ...


Don't have the problem as I don't have a K04 but I'd be willing (and am curious myself) to check what springs are in my MY13 A3. PCV removal looks simple enough but, if I remove it, do have to replace the gasket (if any) under the PCV when replacing it?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Audi'sRevenge said:


> Don't have the problem as I don't have a K04 but I'd be willing (and am curious myself) to check what springs are in my MY13 A3. PCV removal looks simple enough but, if I remove it, do have to replace the gasket (if any) under the PCV when replacing it?


No! Reuse the gasket!

:thumbup:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I'd like anyone with this problem to do the following:
> 
> 1 list your engine code ( this is on the barcode sticker on the left side of the engine)
> 2 list where the engine was made (this is on the window sticker)
> 3 list the color bands on your exhaust valves



I plan on doing this, but I have to get through Christmas first! Maybe before the first of the year...


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

...just out of curiosity...why is no other software provider having this issue? ...at all... i haven't heard a thing from GIAC...HPA...or REVO....i don't know about unitronic ...but none of them seem to have this issue with their ko4 Kits...im just having a hard time understanding this...i mean wouldn't it be the same case for all the tuners...not just APR?...


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

Boost112 said:


> ...just out of curiosity...why is no other software provider having this issue? ...at all... i haven't heard a thing from GIAC...HPA...or REVO....i don't know about unitronic ...but none of them seem to have this issue with their ko4 Kits...im just having a hard time understanding this...i mean wouldn't it be the same case for all the tuners...not just APR?...


Volumn, not to put down any other company but they aren't doing as many cars as APR.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Boost112 said:


> ...just out of curiosity...why is no other software provider having this issue? ...at all... i haven't heard a thing from GIAC...HPA...or REVO....i don't know about unitronic ...but none of them seem to have this issue with their ko4 Kits...im just having a hard time understanding this...i mean wouldn't it be the same case for all the tuners...not just APR?...


Are you able to locate other people actually running the other companies software on a GLI? I know some do not have software for this platform at all, including stage 1 or 2. I'm aware of one person who was running a competitors code. They had misfires until they got an update. That update could be like what we're doing for customers not looking to change the valve springs, which is a reduction in boost at the top end.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

....so far I have found people running ko4 giac/awe tunes with no issues or updates on the mk6 gli...and one person with the hpa ko4...but no info on whether a retune or update...and I think I read of someone with a revo ko4...but it was second hand...so im still undecided...


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## Euro Enginuity (Aug 7, 2010)

Boost112 said:


> ....so far I have found people running ko4 giac/awe tunes with no issues or updates on the mk6 gli...and one person with the hpa ko4...but no info on whether a retune or update...and I think I read of someone with a revo ko4...but it was second hand...so im still undecided...


We have a 2012 GLI customer with a Revo K04........All the companies have different ways of tuning


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## jetta03235 (Oct 13, 2012)

*i need help ?? 1999 jetta vr6 i swaped out the motor and auto tranny . 2001 jetta 1.8t motor and manual transmission swap into a 1999 jetta vr6*

okay i need some help . i have a 1999 jetta vr6 i swaped out the motor and auto tranny . 2001 jetta 1.8t motor and manual transmission swap into a 1999 jetta vr6. i do not have a auto ecm in the car and the 1.8t didnt have one as well. i have the ecu . the car turns over lights and everything works. getting power to the motor and everything . motor will not spark . fuel "have" power "have" park switch and chluch switch "did that " ean anyone help me with this ? just no spark. maybe mixed up relays. or the wiring where the clip comes from the motor into the harness near battery ??? 

plc email me any info . [email protected]


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## simon-says (Oct 21, 2007)

*Sticky this!*

I Vote for a sticky @ the top. 

I just flashed a Tiguan with the new software, and all is fine here.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

simon-says said:


> I Vote for a sticky @ the top.


Heck no! It gives off a false impression there's actually a problem with our software, which we proved wasn't true. : )



> I just flashed a Tiguan with the new software, and all is fine here.


Excellent!


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## kamahao112 (Nov 17, 2007)

Arin i have a customer with a mk6 gti who has some misfire issues but does not have similar misfire issues as the op's car ... i will call him in and pull his pcv and check the springs to get you more corresponding data .. I installed his k04 and flashd it back in 2010:thumbup:


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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

jetta03235 said:


> okay i need some help . i have a 1999 jetta vr6 i swaped out the motor and auto tranny . 2001 jetta 1.8t motor and manual transmission swap into a 1999 jetta vr6. i do not have a auto ecm in the car and the 1.8t didnt have one as well. i have the ecu . the car turns over lights and everything works. getting power to the motor and everything . motor will not spark . fuel "have" power "have" park switch and chluch switch "did that " ean anyone help me with this ? just no spark. maybe mixed up relays. or the wiring where the clip comes from the motor into the harness near battery ???
> 
> plc email me any info . [email protected]


immobolized....


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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

Eurolife69 said:


> immobolized....


you need to immo defeat or get a tune and ask for the immo defeat... my buddy does them for 50.00 but he would need your ecu... takes about 5 min to do.. pm me if interested..


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## jetta03235 (Oct 13, 2012)

*Eurolife69 ???*

can u pm me or email me. i need a number to call you about working on my ecu


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

I was wondering... If you have a customer with the weak valve springs, and he gets the tune with the lower top end boost, how much of a difference in HP vs the original software, that is if it didn't misfire? Also, if the difference is big, say 20 hp or so, could that be made up a bit with more timing, since there is less boost? Just curious about this, and if there can be a work around without losing HP.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

ryan mills said:


> I was wondering... If you have a customer with the weak valve springs, and he gets the tune with the lower top end boost, how much of a difference in HP vs the original software, that is if it didn't misfire? Also, if the difference is big, say 20 hp or so, could that be made up a bit with more timing, since there is less boost? Just curious about this, and if there can be a work around without losing HP.


I actually didn't get a chance to dyno test the difference in power. What I can say is that I couldn't really notice the difference much. Torque is still there, so the car still feels fast and the reports I have from other customers is that it still feels the same on the road. 

Boost is lower in the upper RPM range and ignition is a little higher. :thumbup:


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I actually didn't get a chance to dyno test the difference in power. What I can say is that I couldn't really notice the difference much. Torque is still there, so the car still feels fast and the reports I have from other customers is that it still feels the same on the road.
> 
> Boost is lower in the upper RPM range and ignition is a little higher. :thumbup:


You must have forgotten the feedback I gave you after I got the working file 

The low end torque and the way it comes on is what makes the K04 so much fun to me. This feels no different to me. I can't say the same for the top end. I can tell a slight difference above 5500 rpm. Its just sorta flat up there. Before the misfires (mine did no start immediately) it pulled consistently up through 6500. Its not that big of a deal because I don't have many occasions or need to take the CC above 6000rpm.

In fact, at $1200 for a valve spring job, I plan to go the LSD/clutch route instead. The traction issues are obviously not effected by the new tune  At around 50,000 miles I will get the spring job and a valve cleaning done. At 5000 miles a year, thats a looooooong way off for me!


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I'm glad to hear some feedback about the new tune. It took me a couple months to have the time to go in ONCE AGAIN and try a reflash. The "chip clip" they sent my shop was glued slightly off and so after four hours of attempts we had to give up. I've now driven 16,000 miles without the performance I paid for. :banghead:


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> I'm glad to hear some feedback about the new tune. It took me a couple months to have the time to go in ONCE AGAIN and try a reflash. The "chip clip" they sent my shop was glued slightly off and so after four hours of attempts we had to give up. I've now driven 16,000 miles without the performance I paid for. :banghead:


You're not fixing the actual hardware issue then? The software reflash is just a band-aid fix, which masks the actual issue.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

sh{}e said:


> You're not fixing the actual hardware issue then? The software reflash is just a band-aid fix, which masks the actual issue.


I fixed the hardware issue to avoid the Band-Aid fix but you must understand NONE of us ever expected to spend an extra $1000+ to have our cars running right. 


:sly:


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## dadasracecar (Oct 19, 2010)

FLtrooper said:


> I fixed the hardware issue to avoid the Band-Aid fix but you must understand NONE of us ever expected to spend an extra $1000+ to have our cars running right.
> 
> 
> :sly:


The software makes YOUR car work right, i.e. its maximum capacity. If your car was equipped with the other valve springs its capacity would have been more powerful. It has to frustrating to have gotten to this point but at least there's a way to run trouble free and with the max power that your specific engine setup can provide. 

Does anyone know what the lower rate springs result in power-wise, i.e. dyno measured hp with the full spec software and the softer valve spring software?


2010 GTI 4dr autobahn, APR Stg2, AWE tbe, ECS sways, Vogtland springs, SS lines, Motul RBF600, Hawk HP+, Unibrace XB, SB Stg 2 endurance, Peloquin LSD, tracked frequently.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

FLtrooper said:


> I fixed the hardware issue to avoid the Band-Aid fix but you must understand NONE of us ever expected to spend an extra $1000+ to have our cars running right.
> 
> 
> :sly:


So if they released the software for the GLI specifically and had the top end reduce like the software fix, advertised that the power was reduced from other platforms due to the valve springs installed by VW, not APR, would you then not be saying you had to spend an extra $1000+ to have your car running right? The way I read all of this, you didn't, you have the option of a file adapted for the inferior hardware VW chose to install on the car you purchased. So if they had this file listed as an optional upgrade for those who wanted to upgrade their valve train, you wouldn't have a problem? Then, it'd be all about VW not installing the same level of hardware in your model. 

I agree that APR should have thoroughly tested this software in numerous samples of every platform they release it for, and in the future, i'm sure they will from lessons learned, but I believe that your comment is a little inaccurate. What solution do you have from any other vendor that offers the same level of performance? Once the problem was identified, they provided two solutions to the consumer, one that would cost you nothing, and one to upgrade the hardware that VW supplied.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

snubbs64 said:


> *So if they released the software for the GLI specifically and had the top end reduce like the software fix, advertised that the power was reduced from other platforms due to the valve springs installed by VW, not APR, would you then not be saying you had to spend an extra $1000+ to have your car running right?* The way I read all of this, you didn't, you have the option of a file adapted for the inferior hardware VW chose to install on the car you purchased. So if they had this file listed as an optional upgrade for those who wanted to upgrade their valve train, you wouldn't have a problem? Then, it'd be all about VW not installing the same level of hardware in your model.
> 
> I agree that APR should have thoroughly tested this software in numerous samples of every platform they release it for, and in the future, i'm sure they will from lessons learned, but I believe that your comment is a little inaccurate. What solution do you have from any other vendor that offers the same level of performance? Once the problem was identified, they provided two solutions to the consumer, one that would cost you nothing, and one to upgrade the hardware that VW supplied.


In reference to the Bold statement, Of course I would not be complaining that I had to spend the extra money if I knew there was a chance my engine was equipped from the factory with a weaker set of exhaust springs. 

I don't Hate APR anymore, My vehicle seems to be running just fine! 

:beer:


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

Fiar enough. Glad to hear you're enjoying it! Sorry you were one of the people who "helped" APR figure it out...


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

8 Months since I started this thread and I STILL don't' have a solution! :banghead:The "Chip-clip" APR mailed my tuner wasn't assembled quite right. He sent it back two weeks ago and still we have nothing. 

In other news I've had a few misfires, same symptoms, while running the APR "Stock K04" tune that I've been on for the past 8 months. It would almost lead me to believe that I have some sort of other hardware issue, but APR's top guys came out and worked on the car for two days so that can't be it. :facepalm:

When will this end?! :facepalm:


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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

Schrottplatzer said:


> 8 Months since I started this thread and I STILL don't' have a solution! :banghead:The "Chip-clip" APR mailed my tuner wasn't assembled quite right. He sent it back two weeks ago and still we have nothing.
> 
> In other news I've had a few misfires, same symptoms, while running the APR "Stock K04" tune that I've been on for the past 8 months. It would almost lead me to believe that I have some sort of other hardware issue, but APR's top guys came out and worked on the car for two days so that can't be it. :facepalm:
> 
> When will this end?! :facepalm:


who knows if it will ever end... big companies don't like to take responsibility for a bad product... they still say it was something else rather than the tune they made that is the problem... which is true vw should have better valve springs in all of the cars but still in the end it has been almost a year and they just keep doing the run around... they should fix it for free and hook it up a little on their end for being so inconvenient.. its called good customer service..:thumbdown:


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Eurolife69 said:


> who knows if it will ever end... big companies don't like to take responsibility for a bad product... they still say it was something else rather than the tune they made that is the problem... which is true vw should have better valve springs in all of the cars but still in the end it has been almost a year and they just keep doing the run around... they should fix it for free and hook it up a little on their end for being so inconvenient.. its called good customer service..:thumbdown:


What kind of logic is this?

How is APR responsible if the car itself is the problem? If the OP can prove it is the APR hardware then they should replace the entire kit. It has been identified that some cars have weaker springs from the factory. Again, how is that APR's problem?



Schrottplatzer said:


> 8 Months since I started this thread and I STILL don't' have a solution! :banghead:The "Chip-clip" APR mailed my tuner wasn't assembled quite right. He sent it back two weeks ago and still we have nothing.
> 
> In other news I've had a few misfires, same symptoms, while running the APR "Stock K04" tune that I've been on for the past 8 months. It would almost lead me to believe that I have some sort of other hardware issue, but APR's top guys came out and worked on the car for two days so that can't be it. :facepalm:
> 
> When will this end?! :facepalm:


What about your valve springs? If there is a hardware problem outside of the APR kit then you are approaching an issue that you have to resolve and not APR.


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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

sh{}e said:


> What kind of logic is this?
> 
> How is APR responsible if the car itself is the problem? If the OP can prove it is the APR hardware then they should replace the entire kit. It has been identified that some cars have weaker springs from the factory. Again, how is that APR's problem?
> 
> ...


where is the logic..lol i would say that if you put a tune out for a specific car or you claim the tune works perfect in all formats of the car then it should be good regardless.. this is what happens when you release a product without the proper testing..lol but guess what they tested it and "fixed it", why does it still not work?.. oh its because of vw and the customer... sorry guy it doesnt work that way.... apr just needs to bust their a$$ and satisfy their customer no matter what it takes... 8 months is a long time and $3k is a lot of money so do the math..:banghead:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Your factory clutch probably will not hold k04 power for long. Is it our responsibility to give customers a free clutch too?


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## Eurolife69 (Sep 18, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Your factory clutch probably will not hold k04 power for long. Is it our responsibility to give customers a free clutch too?


no i do not believe that but selling a tune that wont work for a car its supposed to be for is bad business.. i am not saying that you knew it wouldnt work i am just saying it should have been tested... we have all been around vw's for years and know they do some wonky stuff sometimes.. but also if the upgrade causes an issue then it should be disclosed like the clutch thing...i am not saying you are bad people by any means i am just siding with griff who started this post because he is one of my army buddies and he dropped a lot of money on that thing just to be let down and put through the ringer.. i dont want to see him get hosed thats all.. i am sure you will make it right but how long will it take?


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Eurolife69 said:


> no i do not believe that but selling a tune that wont work for a car its supposed to be for is bad business.. i am not saying that you knew it wouldnt work i am just saying it should have been tested... we have all been around vw's for years and know they do some wonky stuff sometimes.. but also if the upgrade causes an issue then it should be disclosed like the clutch thing...i am not saying you are bad people by any means i am just siding with griff who started this post because he is one of my army buddies and he dropped a lot of money on that thing just to be let down and put through the ringer.. i dont want to see him get hosed thats all.. i am sure you will make it right but how long will it take?


I understand where you are coming from but it gets a little sketchy saying its "not-tested". Obviously it was tested and functioned properly, if I recall they did like 5 cars in house with the new ecu before releasing to the public. I've personally done a handful of them without issue(knock on wood). 

I really see no way APR is at fault when VW decides to change parts on a car during production. Unless Vw makes this public how would they test it? Install k04's on cars continuously as they come from production until they find a problem?

Again not trying to fuel the fire as I could only imagine how frustrating the issue was when the problem was unknown. But now there are others who have the problem in stock mode and still think its the software, which just isn't the case.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> 8 Months since I started this thread and I STILL don't' have a solution! :banghead:The "Chip-clip" APR mailed my tuner wasn't assembled quite right. He sent it back two weeks ago and still we have nothing.
> 
> In other news I've had a few misfires, same symptoms, while running the APR "Stock K04" tune that I've been on for the past 8 months. It would almost lead me to believe that I have some sort of other hardware issue, but APR's top guys came out and worked on the car for two days so that can't be it. :facepalm:
> 
> When will this end?! :facepalm:


So you have done valvesprings and still have a problem? Or just referring to not getting the ecu reflashed yet? 

If the misfires in stock mode are new then I would imagine there is something hardware related at this point as obviously the software hasn't changed if its been fine previously in stock mode. I know it has only been 8 months but thought I remember seeing awhile ago that you were already over 14K miles in that time. So it wouldn't be unheard of for something else to go bad as that is decent mileage you are putting on it.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

Eurolife69 said:


> no i do not believe that but selling a tune that wont work for a car its supposed to be for is bad business.. i am not saying that you knew it wouldnt work i am just saying it should have been tested... we have all been around vw's for years and know they do some wonky stuff sometimes.. but also if the upgrade causes an issue then it should be disclosed like the clutch thing...i am not saying you are bad people by any means i am just siding with griff who started this post because he is one of my army buddies and he dropped a lot of money on that thing just to be let down and put through the ringer.. i dont want to see him get hosed thats all.. i am sure you will make it right but how long will it take?


It still isn't the tuner's problem if the hardware on the car is the issue. A person shouldn't be modding their car if they cannot see past this. The tune isn't the problem by the way. Upgrading the car identified a weak point that stock power levels did not show. 

I feel for the guy because the car is not running at his expectations. I know this sucks, but you have to pay to play. There are only two options to try. Revert the car back to stock or replace the hardware issue.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

Is there anyone who had the valves replaced and had the problem solved? Or nobody did it so far?


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## gabriel42 (Nov 23, 2011)

FLtrooper did it. Just dynoed and made 297hp/323tq.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...K6-GLI-K04&p=80198615&viewfull=1#post80198615


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Eurolife69 said:


> this is what happens when you release a product without the proper testing.


The *ENGINE* code is CCTA or CBFA in every EA888 Gen 1 North American 2.0 TSI engine from both Audi and VW. We have extensively tested these engines in racing and our own cars. Product development and testing on this platform spans back *6 YEARS*.

The engine found in the cars that misfired was *THE EXACT SAME ENGINE CODE*. It's the exact same engine. 

The *part numbers* are EXACTLY THE SAME.

The *parts you actually get* are exactly the same on some, and on others are *COMPLETELY DIFFERENT.*

So the problem is not APR. It's not our testing. It has N O T H I N G to do with APR in any way shape or form. 

The wrong parts are in *SOME* of the engines. 

There is *NO WAY* to see this unless you open the engine and check on your own.


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## zucchini (Aug 30, 2009)

gabriel42 said:


> FLtrooper did it. Just dynoed and made 297hp/323tq.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...K6-GLI-K04&p=80198615&viewfull=1#post80198615


Thanks for the answer.
I was reading the thread now, and I could see that his car has a manual tranny.
Is anyboody else, DSG tranny, that got the same result?

Tks


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

For the second time APR has sent my dealer bad equipment. 20,000 miles of driving into the problem and it is still unsolved! I have no interest in paying $1200+ to swap valve springs and maybe fix the issue. I've spent too much money on APR gambles to risk any more.

Has anyone ran the fixed tune yet? I'm STILL waiting.

Any recommendations for a more reliable software company?


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> For the second time APR has sent my dealer bad equipment. 20,000 miles of driving into the problem and it is still unsolved! I have no interest in paying $1200+ to swap valve springs and maybe fix the issue. I've spent too much money on APR gambles to risk any more.
> 
> Has anyone ran the fixed tune yet? I'm STILL waiting.
> 
> Any recommendations for a more reliable software company?


I thought your issue was addressed and fixed already.

Refresh my memory, but didn't APR come out with a "weaker" software for the ko4 setup, that's supposed to be compatible with the crappy valve springs? Have you tried that software?

If you have, and that still didn't take care of the problem, maybe ask APR for a refund on the software you bought, and go elsewhere to see if it helps.

Friend of mine has the "weaker" valve springs in his k04 GLI, and is getting an updated, super hot HPA tune today. Supposed to make a bunch of power yet be compliant with the weak valve springs. We'll see how that goes. If the results are good, I will let you know.


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## meistah (Aug 29, 2011)

The solution is upgraded valvesprings, if you don't want to do that then you should revert back to stage 1 or stock. It's not APR's tune that's the problem, any other tune will likely run into this issue... Even if there was a toned down tune it would be smarter to fix the physical problem.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

Schrottplatzer said:


> For the second time APR has sent my dealer bad equipment. 20,000 miles of driving into the problem and it is still unsolved! I have no interest in paying $1200+ to swap valve springs and maybe fix the issue. I've spent too much money on APR gambles to risk any more.
> 
> Has anyone ran the fixed tune yet? I'm STILL waiting.
> 
> Any recommendations for a more reliable software company?


Not trying to point fingers but are you sure its not your dealer having issues? Flashing the new GLI is a b*tch due to how the hardware has to attach to the eprom.I know I personally only get it to work on the first try like 50% of the time, where as another guy here gets all the time on the first try. I just find it hard to believe that after however many months your dealer keep getting defective hardware. 

Have they not done even done any regular ECU upgrades on GLI's either? We do them on a regular basis. Why not just send the ecu to apr and have them do it if there are no other close dealers, I know its an inconvenience for a couple days but better then driving back and forth multiple times over many months to not have it done yet.


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## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

Bpete said:


> Your hopeless support and endless opotunity to make someone feel like an idiot just does not need to be posted here everytime. Take a break.


This ^^^^^^^^


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## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

Whatever happened with this ? Where the exhaust valves replaced & did it work ? I've heard of at least one case where it didn't.


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## Thiago Brandão (Sep 23, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The *ENGINE* code is CCTA or CBFA in every EA888 Gen 1 North American 2.0 TSI engine from both Audi and VW. We have extensively tested these engines in racing and our own cars. Product development and testing on this platform spans back *6 YEARS*.
> 
> The engine found in the cars that misfired was *THE EXACT SAME ENGINE CODE*. It's the exact same engine.
> 
> ...


It's so funny when I read this kind of arrogant statement. 

Please, explain how is it possible that simply changing the software company I had my misfire issues solved? And more, I jumped from 275whp to 300whp... and APR still states that there is nothing wrong with its product?

My problem was "discussed" between some of APR tech guys, but never had a final feedback from them. Way to go!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Thiago Brandão said:


> It's so funny when I read this kind of arrogant statement.
> 
> Please, explain how is it possible that simply changing the software company I had my misfire issues solved? And more, I jumped from 275whp to 300whp... and APR still states that there is nothing wrong with its product?
> 
> My problem was "discussed" between some of APR tech guys, but never had a final feedback from them. Way to go!


The weak valve springs are not our fault. That has nothing to do with arrogance.


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## HalvieCuw (Mar 20, 2003)

Which engines have the crap valvesrpings?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

HalvieCuw said:


> Which engines have the crap valvesrpings?


Iirc we were seeing them in the new GLI, Passat, cc, tiguan and beetle. Not all have them though, and the parts catalogue seemed to offer up no indication of a change.


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## MAXSPEED (Sep 16, 2001)

Hungary Engines


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

ina04gli1.8t said:


> Whatever happened with this ? Where the exhaust valves replaced & did it work ? I've heard of at least one case where it didn't.


I had the valve springs replaced and my misfires are gone. It worked perfectly for me.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

jspirate said:


> I had the valve springs replaced and my misfires are gone. It worked perfectly for me.



X2


:thumbup:


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## GLIMK6 (Sep 30, 2012)

MAXSPEED said:


> Hungary Engines


I have a German made engine and I have misfires. 

Knowing I had misfires I dyno'd my car and asked to cut it at 6600 RPMs due to me thinking my car will misfire, and no problem. I had 320whp on a Mustang dyno. Then I went back three months later, it misfired at 6500 RPMs at 314whp. 

It has been hit or miss for me, I pushed my car yesterday to about 6700 RPM in 3rd and no problems. I do have the green/yellow valve springs stated as being weak.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

It's been two years and 40,000 miles of driving. The problem never went away with the "weaker" tune. As of about four thousand miles ago (I do a lot of long drives) I began having issues as low as 3,500 rpm. The issue seems to be whenever I hit 20psi or more. It makes sense that when my boost hits 26psi the stock MAP can't read it. We had hoped that the version 3.1 software and 3 bar MAP sensor would fix this, but somehow my ECU is not flash tunable despite having been "unlocked" by APR on one of it's trips there. It was also discovered they swapped my stock mode for valet mode the last time they flashed it. Why would I need valet mode? All I have to do is trip the EPC to get that! 

How has everyone else's been holding up? Please state your engine code when you post. 

I think if APR truly cared about their customers they would have comped those of us that ended up as unwilling beta testers with the spring sets once the problem was identified. My girlfriend is buying a MKVII GTI, and already knows to be weary of some companies, as does the dealership that has watched this chronicle.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Did you not get the update?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

As I said in my post it was not flash tunable. As we understood it the computer should have been unlocked and ready for flash tuning when it came back from you guys the last time. :banghead:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Schrottplatzer said:


> As I said in my post it was not flash tunable. As we understood it the computer should have been unlocked and ready for flash tuning when it came back from you guys the last time. :banghead:


The ECU just needs to be pulled to be flashed. After the 3.1 update, all should be tunable through the port.


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## [email protected] (Feb 4, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> The ECU just needs to be pulled to be flashed. After the 3.1 update, all should be tunable through the port.


If I remember correctly the shop he used was never able to do his ecu. Not sure if it was due to user error being a "chip clip" or hardware error as it was always really vague. I think thats what he is trying to say.


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## simon-says (Oct 21, 2007)

Updates coming!


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

*Solution found!*

After three years and 56,000 miles I finally have a solution and today was able to drive my car without issues for the first time in a long time. The solution? REMOVE APR software and install United Motorsport Software! The car's a beast now with a smooth and predictable aggressive gain in power throughout the rpm band and none of the wild panicky chaotic surge of power I had with APR. Sure it may not be as cool for smoking tires, but I can actually use the power. The transmission tune seemed to really tighten things up as well though for long stretches at 50mph you have to remind it that there's a sixth gear. A big thanks to Jeff at UM. The tune took the better part of a day, but that's because it was an actually TUNE, not just box software unadjusted to individual needs. Double J was awesome as always in taking their time to make sure it was right too. I'd rather spend a little more time waiting for it to be right than rush into problems, or in the case of APR wait AND and problems. I will never buy from APR again.

I know that the Double J crew and United Motorsport don't need the following, but it seems that others might. An excerpt from Dictionary.com

Tune verb (used with object), tuned, tuning.
to adjust (a musical instrument) to a correct or given standard of pitch (often followed by up).
to adapt (the voice, song, etc.) to a particular tone, to the expression of a particular feeling, or the like.
to bring (someone or something) into harmony.
to adjust (a motor, mechanism, or the like) for proper functioning.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Did you ever get the free update?


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## Schrottplatzer (Jun 13, 2009)

I got the 4th update and it gave me all the power of stock with worse reliability than the 2nd and 3rd tunes. All together it meant that I had to yield to a 90's Ford Explorer this morning before finally getting a good tune.


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