# 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS...



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*FIND INA Engineering Inc. on Facebook!*​ 

















*06A Conversion kit - $999 USD + Shipping.* 
Send over a PM when you are ready to order. 









Over the last few years I have found myself loving the 06A/06B/06F family of motors more and more compared to the old 9A/6A/PL motors of late. 
Now before any of you are wondering what I am talking about,we will take a brief trip down memory lane.The last 9A motor to leave the assembly line was over 15 years ago and VW made an attempt to revive the 16V with the ABF effort a motor that when transplanted into a MKII chassis brought smiles to everyones ears.. 
Fortunately for most times have changed and Volkswagen "2nd" Generation (1st generation being external water pump motors) of Water cooled engines have been on the assembly line for over 8 years in chassis's way more popular than you ever could imagine. 

Over the last few months since talks about this started to raise,the emails have started to pile on and there are mostly geared towards the same question: 

"Hi,I have a 16V motor and I want to know if I should build it up using a 9A block or an ABA block" 

to which I reply: 
"Have you looked into a 06A/06B block?" 

Which results in a 5 minute explanation as to the pros and cons of each set up.The biggest obstacle for the 06A/16V hybrid was obtaining fasteners to bolt the block to the head. 
With the help of user = *elrey* a solution was found via ARP (available via PM) 
I was a huge advocate of the ABA/ABF motors 4 years ago (and still am today) but these blocks are for the extremist looking for a bigger rod ratio or taller deck block. 

If you are looking into building your 16V motor you really should consider sourcing a 2.0 8V motor out of a MKIV Golf with engine codes below: 
* AZG 
* AEG 
* AVH 

Why? Well I have compiled a table of pros and cons of each set up and maybe I can sway a few of you into reconsidering which block to use in your next big build. 

*Building the 9A outright* 
*PROS:* 


No need to purchase another block 

 
*CONS:* 


A few parts are getting to the point of NLA 

sourcing used parts leaves you scouring the classifieds into 20+ year old motors and such 

IM shaft driven oil pump - creating a weak point in the crankcase webbing 

crankcase breather system is finiky at best. 

No internal VR sensor pick up. 

 

*Building a 9A/ABA hybrid:* 
*PROS:* 


Uses a 236mm deck height block 

Has longer 159mm rods vs 144mm rods found in the 9A hereby increasing your rod ratio. 

Has facility for a 60-2 wheel on the crank and a VR sensor in the block. 

Has additional ribbing around the case and more mounting boses for "special projects" 

 
*CONS:* 


Has an IM shaft and a shaft driven oil pump 

Still has an external water pump 

Requires machining of old/tired ABA serpentine pulleys to facilitate the increased width of the timing belt. 

Serpentine conversion kits are expensive (trust me I know...I sell them ). 

 

Now we enter the new champ :beer: 

*Building a 9A/06A hybrid:* 
*PROS:* 


Same deck height as the 9A so piston/rod combinations are a direct swap 

Availability - practically every single MKIV Volkswagen/Audi A4 B5 (late)/ Audi A4 B5 / Seat Leon / Seat Cupra /Skoda Octavia / etc came with a 06"X" family engine making them the most common Volkswagen motor to date. 

Internal water pump. 

chain driven oil pump. 

Has facility for a 60-2 wheel on the crank and a VR sensor in the block. 

One of the strongest 4-cylinder water cooled blocks volkswagen has ever built with additional ribbing around the cylinder and crankshaft 

Serpentine conversion comes standard . 

8 different Accessory brackets avaialable making Alternator relocations as simple as a bracket swap. 

Oil filter housing has built crankcase breather with provisions for turbocharger oil feed and crankcase ventillation. 

Provisions for turbocharger coolant return at the rear of the block if the boss is drilled and tapped for an M14 fitting. 

OEM Aluminum oil pan (for those that love AL pans). 

 
*CONS:* 


Requires a complete bottom end out of a MKIV 

Convincing people to go this route  

 

Well I hope this clears up alot of weary minds.I will be posting up the 06A conversion shortly for those that are interested. 

Thanks 

p.s. For those of you looking for a clean 16V plug wire set up: 

*06A 16V plug wire kit - $289 USD + Shipping.*


----------



## whosurdaddy (Jul 26, 2009)

Interesting. Lets see it!


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

This is a pretty sound thread but i do have exception to 1 thing
Building a 9A/06A hybrid
PROS:
Same deck height as the 9A so piston/rod combinations are a direct swap
Availability - practically every single MKIV Volkswagen/Audi A4 B5 (late)/ Audi A4 B5 / Seat Leon / Seat Cupra /Skoda Octavia / etc came with a 06"X" family engine making them the most common Volkswagen motor to date.
Internal water pump.
* chain driven oil pump.*
Has facility for a 60-2 wheel on the crank and a VR sensor in the block.
One of the strongest 4-cylinder water cooled blocks volkswagen has ever built with additional ribbing around the cylinder and crankshaft
Serpentine conversion comes standard .
8 different Accessory brackets avaialable making Alternator relocations as simple as a bracket swap.
Oil filter housing has built crankcase breather with provisions for turbocharger oil feed and crankcase ventillation.
Provisions for turbocharger coolant return at the rear of the block if the boss is drilled and tapped for an M14 fitting.
OEM Aluminum oil pan (for those that love AL pans).
CONS:
* chain driven oil pump.*
Convincing people to go this route 
I would add the chain driven oil pump to the Con side.
The internal chain is more susceptible to failure and has higher
maintenance cost.
these motors are notorious for the chain guilds wearing out clogging
the oil pump pickup and starving the head, turbo and motor of oil
pressure causing an expensive repair. ask anyone you know who owns one.
My friend with a 1.8T Audi has had this happen twice in 2 years.

another thing to consider is internal timing chain = higher maintenance cost.
external timing belt= lower maintenance cost.















I stopped by a local tuner shop today and there it was another 1.8T
with the oil pump pick up clogged from a worn *OIL PUMP TENSIONER*
Whole motor starvation. Big $$$$$$
11/5/09


_Modified by REPOMAN at 9:15 PM 11-5-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_
The internal chain is more susceptible to failure and has higher
maintenance cost.

I have owned my GTI since new and still have not changed the oil pump chain.

_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_these motors are notorious for the chain guilds wearing out clogging
the oil pump pickup and starving the head, turbo and motor of oil
pressure causing an expensive repair. ask anyone you know who owns one.
My friend with a 1.8T Audi has had this happen twice in 2 years.

I am going to disagree with this fully.Do not need to ask anyone who owns one because 4 of the vehicles we have here run 06A/06B/06F bottom ends. The clogging issues with the Audi A4 were due to ignorance based on the service intervals.
The oil pump chain guide is no different in quality than the VR6 motors and besides the replacement chain + guide is less than $53 USD.









_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_
another thing to consider is internal timing chain = higher maintenance cost.
external timing belt= lower maintenance cost.

IM Shaft driven oil pump = IM shaft bearings + installation time (average person in this forum will not be able to change IM shaft bearings) + wear on oil pump internals so it is a catch 22 situation with respect to maintainence.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*









_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I have owned my GTI since new and still have not changed the oil pump chain.
I am going to disagree with this fully. The clogging issues with the Audi A4 were due to ignorance based on the service intervals.
The oil pump chain guide is no different in quality than the VR6 motors and besides the replacement chain + guide is less than $53 USD.










And the cost of Labor for this SERVICE INTERVAL ?
what is the recomended service interval? 
l
_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
IM Shaft driven oil pump = IM shaft bearings + installation time (average person in this forum will not be able to change IM shaft bearings) + wear on oil pump internals so it is a catch 22 situation with respect to maintainence. 

I have driven several 4cyl VW engines into the 300k+ mile mark and have never 
had a IM shaft bearing failure.
and i tend to drive mine pretty hard.
what is the recomended factory service interval of the IM Shaft bearing?
as for oil pump the only time i have touched one is when i am rebuilding a high milage motor, 
replacement is allways recomended. 
never had a failure. 


















_Modified by REPOMAN at 6:07 PM 8-27-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_








And the cost of Labor for this SERVICE INTERVAL ?
what is the recomended service interval? 

Notice the failure rate of Audi motors vs VW motors.Alot of Audi owners drove there engines into the ground and I mean a quick search a few boards will show posts I made almost 5 years ago about this same issue.
Not sure why the







but this thread was created to give people another scope about what is available out there.Your experience is going to be different to mine based on VW/Audi motors and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
You dont like the oil pump chain guide or the tensioner is fine by me but it is hardly as catastrophic as you are making it out to be.I would take the chain driven oil pump over a timing belt driven IM shaft wabling quirky fitting oil pump any day of the week.


----------



## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

No need to get upset
I just stated good information on the Cost differences and shed light
on a known issue.
I would still like to know what 
the cost of Labor for this SERVICE INTERVAL?
what is the recommended service interval?
I was just on the phone with my a friend that's a 30 year + master
VW/Audi mechanic and he says
timing belt ever 100k or sooner 
cross member, oil pan, timing cover, $350-$700+parts
he also said congealed cheap oil is a common factor that causes this failure.


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Building a 9A/ABA hybrid* »_Requires a complete bottom end out of a MKIV

Why is this a con? And shouldn't that be Mk III?
Am I mistaken, or wouldn't you also need a complete bottom end for a 9a/06a hybrid also?
I'm not saying this is a bad idea, I'm just confused with some of the logic.



_Modified by NJRrado at 9:58 PM 8-27-2009_


----------



## Anson86-8v (Feb 17, 2003)

I have to agree with NJRado, the ABA blocks are available in MKIII chassis cars since 1994 and they're super available and significantly cheaper than mk4 blocks.
Issam, the new ideas are awesome, we've all been hashing over the same block head combos for what seems an eternity so a new approach is more than welcome. Just be sure to present the information accurately.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_
Why is this a con? And shouldn't that be Mk III?
Am I mistaken, or wouldn't you also need a complete bottom end for a 9a/06a hybrid also?

Edited
Thanks but yes most people when they hear "MKIV" think $$$...

_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_
the cost of Labor for this SERVICE INTERVAL?
what is the recommended service interval?

Not sure what the cost is but average 3-4 hours to change the chain and tensioner going by dealership standards.

_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_
he also said congealed cheap oil is a common factor that causes this failure.


Yup and alot of Audi owners used this in the past especially on the AEB's.


----------



## evilrobot0 (May 15, 2004)

*FV-QR*

hmmm... interesting... I have 6 2.0 9A 16V's complete with heads sitting in my storage unit... and a full motronic 5.9 setup from an OBD2 ABA MK3 siting about as well....
so; what would I need to make everything go?








AEG bottom end, throw in rods and pistons out of one of my 9A's, bolt on the 16V head and plug in the mot 5.9 setup?
sorry for the noob-ish questions... what about timing belt for the cams?


----------



## NJRrado (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

Another question: So would the 9a/06a hybrid using 9a rods/pistons give you a compression ratio ~10:1? If that's the case I definitely see the benefit over an aba16v for those wanting to stay naturally aspirated.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (NJRrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilrobot0* »_
AEG bottom end, throw in rods and pistons out of one of my 9A's, bolt on the 16V head and plug in the mot 5.9 setup?
sorry for the noob-ish questions... what about timing belt for the cams?

You can use the Motronic 5.9 from the ABA if you put the hall window from the ABA distributor into the 16V housing.
The camshaft gear is always going to be the MKIV 8V unit whether AZG/AEG or similar due to the offset from the cylinder head cast.Timing belt depends on the tensioner you use.I managed to get an AZG unit to work.
Rey used a Lexus from a 3.0 so it depends on your tensioner.

_Quote, originally posted by *NJRrado* »_Another question: So would the 9a/06a hybrid using 9a rods/pistons give you a compression ratio ~10:1? If that's the case I definitely see the benefit over an aba16v for those wanting to stay naturally aspirated. 

Whatever CR you had in the 9A you will have in the 06A.Think of it as a heart transplant.Same heart different body










_Modified by Issam Abed at 11:15 AM 8-31-2009_


----------



## j_m_o_a (Mar 31, 2009)

this is a great thread. i want to see what comes out of this. i am at the point where i have to rebiuld my 9a because i hydralocked to cilynders.
Is this the final shaping of the motor?
MKIV botom end and block; 9A head with MKIV camgear and timing belt?
How about fuel? i have to run the electronic injection?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (j_m_o_a)*


_Quote, originally posted by *j_m_o_a* »_this is a great thread. i want to see what comes out of this. i am at the point where i have to rebiuld my 9a because i hydralocked to cilynders.
Is this the final shaping of the motor?
MKIV botom end and block; 9A head with MKIV camgear and timing belt?
How about fuel? i have to run the electronic injection?

Run your CIS or whatever,the block has no affect on what fuel system you use as the knock sensors are in the same location.


----------



## diceman469 (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Thank you for posting this, a 3rd option for alot of us.
Personally I would stick with the ABA as the best "bolt together" option. Taller block, rod-stroke ratio, 60-2 wheel, and the fact that I can throw a rock and hit a dozen blocks in any pick-and-pull. 5 years down the road may change may make that more difficult.
I do like the idea of an internal waterpump and serpentine setup though!


----------



## almstVW (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Sooooo... can i use the AEB/AVH engine management with a 16V head on it?
i have a complete AEB, as in everything, i also have a AVH less a t-body a head and a computer...
have countless 1.8L 16Vs, and countless forged and non-forged ABAs and the management for all...
what HG do i need?
what rod bearings?
is it too soon to ask all these dumb questions?


----------



## disphunktion (May 18, 2002)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

And would you consider that a good upgrade for an turbo setup or we should stick with the aba/16v? 
I'm talking price-wise.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (almstVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *diceman469* »_
Personally I would stick with the ABA as the best "bolt together" option. Taller block, rod-stroke ratio, 60-2 wheel, and the fact that I can throw a rock and hit a dozen blocks in any pick-and-pull.

True but then there is that issue of pistons









_Quote, originally posted by *almstVW* »_Sooooo... can i use the AEB/AVH engine management with a 16V head on it?.

AEB and AVH are 2 different engines.I assume you mean AEG/AVH?
If so yes you can use it with a 16V head,just make sure you lengthen the wires for the harness approiately.

_Quote, originally posted by *almstVW* »_
i have a complete AEB, as in everything, i also have a AVH less a t-body a head and a computer...
have countless 1.8L 16Vs, and countless forged and non-forged ABAs and the management for all...
what HG do i need?
what rod bearings?


AEG or AEB?
HG would be AEG/AZG head gasket and rod bearings will be any inline-4.


----------



## almstVW (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

AEG, sorry had the 20V hybrid thread opened also... as i also have 3 AEBs... having trouble deciding what engine to build next...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (almstVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *almstVW* »_AEG, sorry had the 20V hybrid thread opened also... as i also have 3 AEBs... having trouble deciding what engine to build next...

You can run the AVH/AZG management on the hybrid motor.
Like I said I laid out all 3 options here for you,it is up to you to chose.


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Cons to the setup for the mk1 guys: 
Needs custom motormounts.
Availability of complete mkIV's in junkyards is slim.
People with mkIV's weren't real big on maintenance, meaning lots of heat damage in blocks.
Aluminum oil pans. And that's a detractor for a LOT of people on here. Hell, I've hit my stock oil pan on my mkIII's at a little less than stock height.


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (dubdaze68)*

im gonna go on the record and vote that the aba/16v is best.
to address the cons, just get an electric drive water pump, and mount it anywhere you want.
get a dry sump system to address any oil issues.
i still run an intermediate shaft, but it doesnt power anything. its machined super thin so its just "there".


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (speed51133!)*

Dry sumps are a bit thin on the ground, mostly made for the old Super Vee motors by either Drake or Bertils.


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (dubdaze68)*

i dont know what you mean by "a bit thin on the ground".
if you mean the depth of the oil pan is a bit thin, well, it is, and thats the point.
anyways, there are contemporary companies that make dry sump setups for the aba and later vw 4 bangers.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (speed51133!)*

you can also do this swap on the BEV engine aswell that is what im currently working on...... infact its even easier with the BEV as the FPR is located in the fuel tank so you dont have to worry about a return line......
check out my build thread in my sig
Currently from what I can tell there are 3 of use in the MKIV group that are working on MKIV 2L 16V's NA and Turbo
They are
Me
elRey
Shifty
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (dubdaze68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubdaze68* »_
Needs custom motormounts.

No longer an issue for MK1's. We can make motor mount brackets to put a 02J gearbox and ANY 06A/06B motor in a MK1 in less than 2 weeks.

_Quote, originally posted by *dubdaze68* »_
Availability of complete mkIV's in junkyards is slim.

Even the 2.0's? Seem to be a dime a dozen where ever I go...

_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_that are working on MKIV 2L 16V's NA 
Count me in as thats what spawned this thread.I am doing one for a customer here


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

for this swap you need 4 custom pieces... elrey and I can vouch for this
you need a custom side coolant flange..... there are currently 2 ways.... elRey has the more expensive way but prettier.... I have the cheaper way but functional
you need a TB Flange again elRey currently has the nicer one because he has access to a water jet...... I am still doing a little custom work with a BBM Adaptor and a custom made piece designed to match the MKIV 2L TB Gasket.....
you need a front coolant flange block off
you need a lower intake side block off or possibly use this spot for another vacuum line
and you need special head bolts


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_for this swap you need 4 custom pieces... elrey and I can vouch for this

Only if you are putting it in a MKIV chassis.For a MKII you dont need those custom pieces.Only need to join the thermostat bypass hose to the middle of the 16V head.

_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_
you need a custom side coolant flange..... there are currently 2 ways.... elRey has the more expensive way but prettier.... I have the cheaper way but functional

Only if it is going in a MKIV chassis.Same goes for the rest of the post

_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_
and you need special head bolts

Nope,
I carry ARP head studs for this.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Nope,
I carry ARP head studs for this.









I already bought the bolts..... but ARP studs will work too yes
regarding the rest of your post im confused now..... y would you stick a MKIV 2L 16V into a MKII..... y not a 9A?
you must have to do a bunch of wiring to get a MKIV 2L into a MKII


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_
y would you stick a MKIV 2L 16V into a MKII..... y not a 9A?

Thats the whole point of this post.Why rebuild a 9A when there is a better block available.

_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_
you must have to do a bunch of wiring to get a MKIV 2L into a MKII

The wiring is the same.You are using the 9A wiring.The knock sensors on the 9A motor are in the exact same position on the AZG motor.
I will be posting pictures of my all aluminum hybrid later on.Just waiting on a 9A 16V valve cover.


----------



## evilrobot0 (May 15, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

you can do whatever wiring that you want; you could even run the stock MK2 16V CIS-E Motronic if you wanted too. Sam was just presenting this as another block option as opposed to just 9A or ABA.
I think I am gonna build one with the MK4 block for my MK2, but I will either be running standalone or OBD2 from a MK3 2.0


----------



## evilrobot0 (May 15, 2004)

*Re: (evilrobot0)*

if you don't already have a 9A 16V Valve cover, I have SEVERAL of them in my storage unit; you are welcome to have one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Building one myself right now!


----------



## dubidoobs (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: (evilrobot0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *evilrobot0* »_...I think I am gonna build one with the MK4 block for my MK2, but I will either be running standalone or OBD2 from a MK3 2.0

the mk3 OBD2 can run the 16v for your swap? i didn't know that...have you confirmed this setup works yet? if this works better than the cis-e, then i might look into this for my swap.
there's such a wealth of new information on this forum!!! o joy!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## evilrobot0 (May 15, 2004)

*FV-QR*

yes; it works. in fact there is an AWESOME ABF clone (ABA, ABF pistons, 16V head) on Mot 5.9 FS in the MK3 calssifieds; saw the car in person on Sunday - and its even nicer than the pics.








MK3 guys have been doing 16V head swaps on ABA's for a while now using stock management. C2 even makes a chip for it.


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I'm getting an AEB block shortly to try this out. This is going to be a slow, as time and money allow, build. I'd like to run a TDI crank with 83.5mm (or bigger if safe) pistons. I need to see if anyone makes stroker 16v pistons or if they have to be made. Ideally I'd like 2.2L at 12:1 compression in an 06x block with a 16V head and MLS head gasket.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_I'm getting an AEB block shortly to try this out. This is going to be a slow, as time and money allow, build. I'd like to run a TDI crank with 83.5mm (or bigger if safe) pistons. I need to see if anyone makes stroker 16v pistons or if they have to be made. Ideally I'd like 2.2L at 12:1 compression in an 06x block with a 16V head and MLS head gasket. 

2.2L wont happen with a 95.5 crank BUT you will net 2.1L.
If you need custom pistons I can get them made


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I was hoping the extra bore would get me close. As far as pistons, we'll have to see how the budget goes. I never really thought about doing anything with an 06x block before you posted this and local has one in stock, so thanks for the inspiration and the new money pit. Haha


----------



## 20V_DUBBIN (Aug 29, 2007)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

will the stock mk2 motor mounts work on the 06x blocks? or is a mk3 subframe needed?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (20V_DUBBIN)*

the MKII and MKIII have the same mounts..... 
not sure if you can put a MKIV 2L block in a MKII or MKIII without fabbing something though
on the MKIIIs the kframe directly supports the motor....
on the MKIV's the frame rails are what supports it...... id have to take a look to see if the blocks have mounting points on them for the older style mounts


----------



## 20V_DUBBIN (Aug 29, 2007)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (duke_seb)*

hm, that'd probably be the only thing holding me back. i dont want to have to fab my own mounts. thanks man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## G60NUT (Oct 23, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

Vary intresting, But my problem is that I've got a 9a/PL G60 setup on mine (16vg60). So my Question is could I run a g-lader bracket on a 06A/06B block?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (G60NUT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20V_DUBBIN* »_will the stock mk2 motor mounts work on the 06x blocks? or is a mk3 subframe needed?

MKII motor mount brackets bolt up direct to a 06A block.
Seat Ibiza MKIII is a VW Golf MKII with a 06A motor









_Quote, originally posted by *G60NUT* »_Vary intresting, But my problem is that I've got a 9a/PL G60 setup on mine (16vg60). So my Question is could I run a g-lader bracket on a 06A/06B block?

You could if you put it where the AC/COmpressor on the accessory bracket once was.Id love to do something like this for you


----------



## G60NUT (Oct 23, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_You could if you put it where the AC/COmpressor on the accessory bracket once was.Id love to do something like this for you









Yea My G60 bracket has every thing on it (Alt and G60) would it bolt up or are we talking custom?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (G60NUT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60NUT* »_
Yea My G60 bracket has every thing on it (Alt and G60) would it bolt up or are we talking custom?

Most definitely custom but at least it will be fun


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

I had a friend try to run an ABF clone on OBDII MkIII Golf wiring and software, it never ran right. He ended up importing an entire Digi3 wiring harness.


_Modified by dubdaze68 at 1:39 PM 9-7-2009_


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

do mk1 mounts bolt up?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

As soon as I get the parts I am having made/ordered I will be updating this thread

_Quote, originally posted by *-RalleyTuned-* »_do mk1 mounts bolt up?

No but we have a solution for that now


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

whats that cost? or estimate for cost?
i'm assuming the front mount will work with the 020 trans


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

dammit.. if i knew about this I would have told a friend about it before he hacked his out.... hes shoehorning a VRinto a rabbit


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (-RalleyTuned-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-RalleyTuned-* »_whats that cost? or estimate for cost?
i'm assuming the front mount will work with the 020 trans 

We will be selling all 3 mounts for 399 USD + shipping 
The mount will come in either 65A durometer or 80A durometer and will surpass what is currently available on the market. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

i'm lost... what head gasket and bolts are you suggesting?


----------



## timmy5150 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Any pics of this setup yet?
I think this will be the route I go when it is time for a fresh bottom end...I think my rings are leaking. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (timmy5150)*


_Quote, originally posted by *timmy5150* »_Any pics of this setup yet?
I think this will be the route I go when it is time for a fresh bottom end...I think my rings are leaking. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

working on getting a valve cover for pics


----------



## timmy5150 (Jul 31, 2004)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Looking forward to them! Good info BTW! Thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *woodrowstar* »_i'm lost... what head gasket and bolts are you suggesting?

* AEG/AZG head gasket
* ARP head studs








ABF kit adapeted to 06A block.


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

so what model cars came with these? you said mkIV golf? anything else? i think we are gonna start searching for one of these for our rally car, if we can find a bottom end for a reasonable price


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (-RalleyTuned-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-RalleyTuned-* »_so what model cars came with these? you said mkIV golf? anything else? i think we are gonna start searching for one of these for our rally car, if we can find a bottom end for a reasonable price

Any MKIV Golf/Jetta 2.0 8V should be an affordable candidate. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

alright the search is on!


----------



## #6jettaC (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (-RalleyTuned-)*

so could i use a 06x block and internals and bolt a 16v head a top? what would the cr be like? and what head gasket would i use?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (#6jettaC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *#6jettaC* »_so could i use a 06x block and internals and bolt a 16v head a top? what would the cr be like? and what head gasket would i use? 

use your 9A internals and an AZG head gasket. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

*FV-QR*

What had to be done to the ABF bracket to make it mount? I should be getting my AEG block shortly and would love you use my ABF setup.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_What had to be done to the ABF bracket to make it mount? I should be getting my AEG block shortly and would love you use my ABF setup.

You need an adapter block and machining of the ABF bracket.
Send me back yours and I will send you a machined one for the cost of machining.


----------



## frrtbkr (Aug 1, 2004)

Still to early for me... I can buy 4 ABAs for the price of your 06x mounts alone. There has been ONE MKIV at my local junkyard (I did buy the aluminum valve cover, intake and exhaust manifolds though.







)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (frrtbkr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *frrtbkr* »_Still to early for me... I can buy 4 ABAs for the price of your 06x mounts alone.  There has been ONE MKIV at my local junkyard (I did buy the aluminum valve cover, intake and exhaust manifolds though.







)

Hey if it works for you then use it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## calituner (Aug 11, 2005)

why not just take a 20v head and build it on this block instead of using the old 16v heads? no custom head studs then


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (calituner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *calituner* »_why not just take a 20v head and build it on this block instead of using the old 16v heads? no custom head studs then

Why not swap a full 1.8T motor and done? 
Because....some people want to keep there 16V motor.


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Why not swap a full 1.8T motor and done? 
Because....some people want to keep there 16V motor.









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## calituner (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: (Justin 123)*

well one of your arguments is to get away from changing pistons with a aba/16v combo in NA applications. im assuming a 20v head on a 06x bottom would yeld a good ratio to run it NA, no? thats why i suggest that.


_Modified by calituner at 10:44 AM 9-22-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (calituner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *calituner* »_well one of your arguments is to get away from changing pistons with a aba/16v combo in NA applications. im assuming a 20v head on a 06x bottom would yeld a good ratio to run it NA, no? thats why i suggest that.









06A/06B = 1.8T 20V , 2.0 8V MKIV engine.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

And a new baffled oil pan just for this


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

contemplating using this on 2 of our race cars now...







is there any steel pans available for these? and how much is your guys' baffled pans?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (-RalleyTuned-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-RalleyTuned-* »_contemplating using this on 2 of our race cars now...







is there any steel pans available for these? and how much is your guys' baffled pans?

There is a steel pan available from the TDI but I much rather go with an aluminum sheet pan


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

when you smash into as much stuff as we do in the rally car, the piece of mind is worth it







we have some incredibly tough suspension and we still managed to bend a shock at the last rally...








we are also super nervous about the location of the crank trigger setup, our next rally is in heavy rain/mud/snow so we are looking for an internal setup pretty soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## j_m_o_a (Mar 31, 2009)

i bent to rod on my 9a so it is time to rebuild it. i want to go a diferent route to 9a. if i understand right i can use a mk4 2.0l block with 9a internal; some aeg or mk4 headgasket and 16v head? if so can i still run the cis-e motronic? i want that. no wiring issue for me. all i want is to update the bottom end and run aserpentine belt set-up. no turbo apliucation here.
did i get it right about the bottom end; internals and head?


----------



## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

any pics of the coolant line configuration for a mk2/mk3 install. the block has the outlet for the lower radiator and the 16v has the upper radiator hose but the 16v will have an additional port on the coolant flange pointing down, also the return from the heater hose will need a location to go to.
Issam, would it not also be possible to drop in the pistons from an AAN (20v 5cyl turbo) into a 1.8t block for use with a 16v head. I am turbo and those pistons have been known to make huge power while allowing for a CR just above 9:1.


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (jetta2dr16v)*

If you put 9A rods and pistons in a aeg bottom, the pistions had to be machined a bit to clear the oil squiters?
And how much $$$ are your arp stud?
Thanks!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-RalleyTuned-* »_
we are also super nervous about the location of the crank trigger setup

Such a pita...








AEG time

_Quote, originally posted by *j_m_o_a* »_i bent to rod on my 9a so it is time to rebuild it. i want to go a diferent route to 9a. if i understand right i can use a mk4 2.0l block with 9a internal; some aeg or mk4 headgasket and 16v head? if so can i still run the cis-e motronic? i want that. no wiring issue for me. all i want is to update the bottom end and run aserpentine belt set-up. no turbo apliucation here.
did i get it right about the bottom end; internals and head?

You got it right.Just plug the hole in the block for the VR sensor and away you go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_any pics of the coolant line configuration for a mk2/mk3 install. the block has the outlet for the lower radiator and the 16v has the upper radiator hose but the 16v will have an additional port on the coolant flange pointing down, also the return from the heater hose will need a location to go to.
Issam, would it not also be possible to drop in the pistons from an AAN (20v 5cyl turbo) into a 1.8t block for use with a 16v head. I am turbo and those pistons have been known to make huge power while allowing for a CR just above 9:1. 


AAN has an 86.4mm stroke not a 92.8mm stroke so no not possible.
I am waiting for a few more parts to come in then I will show you what needs to be done. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_If you put 9A rods and pistons in a aeg bottom, the pistions had to be machined a bit to clear the oil squiters?
And how much $$$ are your arp stud?
Thanks!

AEG bottom ends do not have squirters so you wont have that issue.If you mean AZG then yes.
ARP studs are 150 USD/set


----------



## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

How does a block from the 2.0t FSI compare to the 2.0l mk4 blocks like the azg as far as specifications?
there is limited information but I know Issam has the best chance to answer as he has had many of these engines apart.
can we get a parts list going of the best blocks and cranks to go after?
for instance AEG has no oil squirters so for me that means it is not good for my application.
which engine codes have the forged cranks or can a forged FSI crankshaft and forged main caps be used?
Can I essentially use a FSI block with the Crank shaft and add in some 16v pistons? I have not pulled up much information or pictures of this engine with the head removed and like I stated earilier there is nearilly no specifications of the engine that I have found thus far.



_Modified by jetta2dr16v at 12:56 AM 10-13-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (jetta2dr16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_How does a block from the 2.0t FSI compare to the 2.0l mk4 blocks like the azg as far as specifications?
there is limited information but I know Issam has the best chance to answer as he has had many of these engines apart. 

The 2.0 FSI engine (assuming the ones bound for North America) follow the 06F line up.For this example we will use the BPY engine code (BPY being the 2006 GTI engine).Differences include:
* Oil filter housing mounting plate (completely different design)
* Billet main caps (vs cast in the AZG)
* Oil feed is now @ the rear of the block vs the oil filter housing
Other than that,the blocks are identical.


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_
can we get a parts list going of the best blocks and cranks to go after?
for instance AEG has no oil squirters so for me that means it is not good for my application.
which engine codes have the forged cranks or can a forged FSI crankshaft and forged main caps be used? 

Block - AZG/AVH/BPY
Head - 16V - any really
You really dont NEED a forged crankshaft as cast has been taken well beyond what 99.9% of the guys in here will make.It really is up to your the end user though









_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_
Can I essentially use a FSI block with the Crank shaft and add in some 16v pistons? 

Yes you can. I have looked into machining the dome's of FSI pistons to mimic that of a 9A but the cost involved inst worth it.Might as well throw in some 9A slugs + rods and be happy.

_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_
I have not pulled up much information or pictures of this engine with the head removed and like I stated earilier there is nearilly no specifications of the engine that I have found thus far.

I know this is going to sound wrong but alot of advertisers do not like sharing information because either :
A. They do not know
B. They think what they know is some huge secret.
You have to remember I was an enthusiast that turned his hobby into a job so I know what it is like to be on both sides of the fence and to be quite honest I would rather share the information here as I have done in the past than keep it to myself and hope no one gains from it.In return I just hope that people recognise what we @ INA are capable of.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

Since my16v/9a is apart I'm considering this bottom end over the winter. Might as well try something new. 
Can I use my same ARP studs that I currently have?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_Can I use my same ARP studs that I currently have?

No. Unless you drill out and tap the block,


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Jeebus)*

should have just asked me dave...... 
if you look at my build thread you can find the link to the proper bolts from mcmaster that you need
also where to get them from in canada as mcmaster wont ship to canada
youll also need washers to fit as they dont come with them
apparently there may be arp bolts for this application but i didnt bother to look after i got the mcmaster ones for $75
in the signature below


_Modified by duke_seb at 2:05 PM 10-17-2009_


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (duke_seb)*

I'm not doing the exact same block as yours, and I will only use ARP.








Thanks guys. 


_Modified by Jeebus at 2:24 PM 10-17-2009_


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

Someone have put the pistons and rods from the 9A in an AEG block and can confirm that there are no interference at all, even the #4 piston with the crank sensor wheel?
Thanks!


----------



## vw leben (May 17, 2008)

The 9A and AZG share the same sized internals? I.E. the ABA still has longer stroke?
This is a good post, I think the 06X eng. are better compared to the earlier just requires better attention to maint. Most failures I see with the newer eng. (I.E. oil pumps) is due to poor maint. and oil!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_and I will only use ARP.

I got em son!









_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_Someone have put the pistons and rods from the 9A in an AEG block and can confirm that there are no interference at all, even the #4 piston with the crank sensor wheel?
Thanks! 

AEG does not have oil squirters.Should be no interference.
You are in Montreal? Give me a buzz

_Quote, originally posted by *vw leben* »_The 9A and AZG share the same sized internals? I.E. the ABA still has longer stroke?
This is a good post, I think the 06X eng. are better compared to the earlier just requires better attention to maint. Most failures I see with the newer eng. (I.E. oil pumps) is due to poor maint. and oil!

The 9A,AZG and ABA all have the same 92.8mm stroke.
The difference in the internals is the pistons and connecting rods.
ABA having 159/21mm rods with an 8V dish,AZG having similar 9A rods but with an 8V dish and overcourse the 9A being the 16V of the lot.


----------



## bmp20bunny (May 8, 2004)

wow... the alphabet soup in my head is making me dizzy, lol. 
i have an 89 GTI 1.8 16v, and am contemplating a hybrid. would prefer to keep the OE fueling, tho. i also have a new 9A 16v head ready to go, and also an AEB block, i believe. 
do i need to source some 9a internals? i have heard that is getting tough to do...


----------



## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (bmp20bunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bmp20bunny* »_
do i need to source some 9a internals? i have heard that is getting tough to do...

Just pistons and rods, and judging by what I had to go through to get my 9A internals, yes they're getting hard to find.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Shifty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Shifty* »_
Just pistons and rods, and judging by what I had to go through to get my 9A internals, yes they're getting hard to find.









9A internals hard to find?








Junkyard ---> Passat 16V ---> Spend $50 and take the whole motor


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

If anyone needs a set with good rods I can sell them to you I bought wiseco pistons and ie rods so I don't need then anymore
just go to my build thread im my sig for the price


----------



## ABAGTi` (Jul 13, 2009)

I found this thread last night as I was trying to decide on a winter project. I wanted to start a first motor build and teardown everything.
I'm looking into this since reading the whole thread and looks to have good points from both sides. My only concern in going this route is a parts list of what I need to start acquiring for the swap.
It'll go into a mk2. I have a few 2.0l 16vs for around 300$ CND so getting the base for this isn't expensive.
Are rebuild parts for these motors available? Search ebay for a b16 or b18 rebuild kit and it has plenty of auctions with everything you need, cheap. 16v rebuild parts yield nothing.
Whats the est. hp numbers slapping it together stock n/a?? What are all management options?
I'm gunna be asking alot of questions, I'm very interested in something like this.


----------



## hood.star (Jan 29, 2009)

*FV-QR*

once you have the 9a pistions in the 06x block, is the head a direct bolt on to the block with the proper head gasket and studs? are there any more threads with more information on this hybrid? I would really like to build one of these motors and put it in my GLI. I would like to ditch my CIS for better fuel injection, any thoughts on what might be my best route?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (hood.star)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hood.star* »_once you have the 9a pistions in the 06x block, is the head a direct bolt on to the block with the proper head gasket and studs?

Direct bolt on with the AZG head gasket
no modifications needed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hood.star (Jan 29, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Direct bolt on with the AZG head gasket
no modifications needed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



that's awesome! the winter will be a good time to start gathering parts to begin the build. first step will be to find a block, is one block better than the other? 
issam, any more links to project threads or links with more information on this swap in general?


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

Does the ALH crank fit in the 06x block? I know the mk3 TDI crank was the crank of choice for people running older 9A blocks that wanted a stroker, but moving forward I would like to run the 06a block.


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

3 pages and no pics.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *woodrowstar* »_3 pages and no pics. 

Sorry I know








Powdercoaters have been extremely busy with work and they are doing a favour for me so I am not trying to push them.

_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_Does the ALH crank fit in the 06x block? I know the mk3 TDI crank was the crank of choice for people running older 9A blocks that wanted a stroker, but moving forward I would like to run the 06a block.

ALH 95.5 does fit in the 06A block .ALH motor is actually part of the 06X family.

_Quote, originally posted by *hood.star* »_is one block better than the other?

Try finding an AZG block.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

my in progress hybrid


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (woodrowstar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *woodrowstar* »_3 pages and no pics. 


MK4/MKIV 2.0L 8v AEG/AZG -> 16v head swap
AZG - modified 9A - stock 9A

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










AZG/BEV bottom end assembled with 16v 9A rods and pistons. I reused the mk4 rod bearings and piston rings.:
















now some attention to the center of the swap, the 16v head:








new stem seals, fine sanded all bearing and lifter surfaces and cleaned all gasket surfaces.
















head's assembled and time for mockups:
































































------------ boosted ----------------
MK4 Jetta Wagon 16vT build


----------



## kenny_blankenship (Feb 19, 2005)

Can these hybrids handle higher RPM's because of the oil pump setup when compared to the IM shaft driven 9a, or are they both about the same?


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

wow, good question.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (kenny_blankenship)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kenny_blankenship* »_Can these hybrids handle higher RPM's because of the oil pump setup when compared to the IM shaft driven 9a, or are they both about the same?

Wouldnt be any different http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Quote, originally posted by hood.star »
is one block better than the other?
Try finding an AZG block.

Why a AZG?
And what years of mk4 have it?
Thanks!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Jolf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_
Why a AZG?

AZG has the oil squirters.You can find them in the early 2.0 Beetle's.


----------



## ItsMyJetta (Aug 5, 2009)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

I got a question 

If i get a 1987 gti complete block and i try to mix it with a aba partial head + aeg intake manifold , fuel rail , injectors and cai would it work ??


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (ItsMyJetta)*

'87 gti's had 1.8L PL motors, you need a 9a 16v out of a 90+ vehicle
so here's my questions
which trannies will bolt to it?
what's the lightest vehicle this motor combo will bolt into without custom mounts? 
anyone tucked one of these block/trannies into an A1 or A2? 
anyone planning on doing a production run of mounts? 
which trannies will bolt to it?



_Modified by weeblebiker at 12:53 AM 11-8-2009_


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*

MKII


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (ItsMyJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ItsMyJetta* »_I got a question 

If i get a 1987 gti complete block and i try to mix it with a aba partial head + aeg intake manifold , fuel rail , injectors and cai would it work ??

If your 1987 gti is 8v, yes it will work, but you are not in the right post!


_Modified by Jolf3 at 4:52 PM 11-7-2009_


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

actually it might work in a sciroco too


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_so here's my question
what's the lightest vehicle this motor will bolt into without custom mounts? which trannies will bolt to it?


Yes in a mk2.
All mk1, mk2, mk3, mk4, passat and corrado 4cyl tranny will bolt to it if you have the right clutch.


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_actually it might work in a sciroco too

Mk2 scirocco are on mk1 (golf/jetta) platform.


----------



## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: (Jolf3)*

are there any picture comparisons of the back of an FSI block compared to the mk4 8v?
I am interested to see if they are close enough to the same mold that the oil feed can be drilled and tapped to the back of a mk4 8v block simular to how the FSI runs.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (jetta2dr16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_are there any picture comparisons of the back of an FSI block compared to the mk4 8v?
I am interested to see if they are close enough to the same mold that the oil feed can be drilled and tapped to the back of a mk4 8v block simular to how the FSI runs.

I wondered that also.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
I wondered that also.

It can
infact this is how the F3 motors were done.I can grab some comparision pictures for you but I am not sure I would want to drill and tap the block when an oil filter housing is much easier


----------



## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

I am just going for the benefit of a shorter feed line and simplicity


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (jetta2dr16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_I am just going for the benefit of a shorter feed line and simplicity

Agree with you there but even then the oil feed line for the FSI motor is right behind the motor mount bracket so even IF you wanted a shorter feed line you would be at the mercy of a dremel to open up the rear bracket.


----------



## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

do you have some pictures showing the placement of the line?


----------



## hood.star (Jan 29, 2009)

*FV-QR*

i'm going to start compiling parts and putting this together over the winter. I am going to ditch the P/S and A/C, will I need a custom bracket to make this work? I'm going to go with the AZG block. I will be rebuilding the block and head, this will be my first rebuild. are there any sites or links that will help me through this process? 


_Modified by hood.star at 8:20 AM 11-9-2009_


----------



## kenny_blankenship (Feb 19, 2005)

What timing belt is to be used? I figured that there could potentially be a few less teeth due to the fact that there is no IM shaft to be driven, and I don't like the possibility of the tensioner being maxed out.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (kenny_blankenship)*

Lexus gs300 fi timing belt


----------



## kenny_blankenship (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_Lexus gs300 fi timing belt

Gates # 250215
143 tooth
Pitch 8mm/.315"
Length 1144mm/45.039"
Top width 25mm/1"
Profile type: Curvelinear II
Just giving out the info here. (I'm a parts counterman http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )


----------



## jetta2dr16v (Dec 15, 2003)

*Re: (Jolf3)*

what accessory bracket options are there for these setups?
I am non a/c, non power steering
are there different styles for the accessory brackets?


_Modified by jetta2dr16v at 9:14 PM 11-11-2009_


----------



## kenny_blankenship (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: (jetta2dr16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_what accessory bracket options are there for these setups?
I am non a/c, non power steering
are there different styles for the accessory brackets?


In that case, you'll have just an alternator nad tensioner there, since the water pump is driven off of the timing belt.


----------



## Kaddy (Sep 29, 2002)

*Re: (kenny_blankenship)*

Are there any off-the-shelf aftermarket pistons that work with this setup, and clear the oil squirters?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Kaddy)*

Yup wiseco 16v pistons


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_do you have some pictures showing the placement of the line? 

Picking up parts from the powdercoaters on Tuesday so I will upload all images then.

_Quote, originally posted by *Kaddy* »_Are there any off-the-shelf aftermarket pistons that work with this setup, and clear the oil squirters?

JE's. Wiseco , etc
should all clear.

_Quote, originally posted by *jetta2dr16v* »_what accessory bracket options are there for these setups?
I am non a/c, non power steering
are there different styles for the accessory brackets?

Yes they are about 8 different accessory brackets across the line up but none were ever done for Non/AC or Non/PS thats why I adapted the ABF kit to work on the 06A block.Alternator only set up.


----------



## weeblebiker (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

does the azg block have a crank trigger also?
so all I'd really need for an a1 swap is the passenger motor mount, I saw the price for the mount set, how much for just the one bracket?


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (weeblebiker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_does the azg block have a crank trigger also?

Yes.

_Quote, originally posted by *weeblebiker* »_so all I'd really need for an a1 swap is the passenger motor mount, I saw the price for the mount set, how much for just the one bracket?

Issam sell the passenger motor mount 195$ USD.
Sometime you can found it cheaper on ebay (ebay.co.uk).
Or maybe you can try to do it.
Some picture that i have found on the net:











































_Modified by Jolf3 at 9:47 AM 11-15-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Jolf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_
Or maybe you can try to do it.

If we all tried to do everything then I would be President of the United States by now.
I am doing them in batches so if you need one let me know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
If we all tried to do everything then I would be President of the United States by now.
I am doing them in batches so if you need one let me know. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Some people want and can do their own stuff.
And at 200$ for a bracket, i think it's worth it to try to weld a circular piece to a flat piece!
My 2 cents.









_Modified by Jolf3 at 2:30 PM 11-16-2009_


_Modified by Jolf3 at 2:30 PM 11-16-2009_


----------



## Jphive (Apr 22, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Does the AZG also have a forged crank? the reason i hunted down an OBD1 ABA was for the oil squirters and the forged crank. as i am planning on a high HP turbo build. but if the AZG has one as well i might consider this direction.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_
And at 200$ for a bracket, i think it's worth it to try to weld a circular piece to a flat piece!
My 2 cents.










If you think thats what it is worth then go right ahead








Enjoy sourcing the bushing , creating a weld and then powdercoating it for the price. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Jphive* »_Does the AZG also have a forged crank? the reason i hunted down an OBD1 ABA was for the oil squirters and the forged crank. as i am planning on a high HP turbo build. but if the AZG has one as well i might consider this direction.

AZG has a cast crank which you will not break.


----------



## skidmarkus (Sep 20, 2007)

so issam, i have a 04 bev, will you be fabricating the pieces for the cps, coolant flange etc?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (skidmarkus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skidmarkus* »_so issam, i have a 04 bev, will you be fabricating the pieces for the cps, coolant flange etc?

Yes,
just waiting for the following to come in:
* casters for the dolly
* CNC'ed parts
* cylinder head from sonic cleaning.
Once that is here (hopefully thursday) then I will do up a picture thread using a stock AZG bottom end for starters and then moving on with what parts are needed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

I saw bev 16v I have to whore..... Lol
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4410956


----------



## skidmarkus (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Yes,
just waiting for the following to come in:
* casters for the dolly
* CNC'ed parts
* cylinder head from sonic cleaning.
Once that is here (hopefully thursday) then I will do up a picture thread using a stock AZG bottom end for starters and then moving on with what parts are needed. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

awesome, any estimates on the cost yet?


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_I saw bev 16v I have to whore..... Lol

yepp ive been watchin, its lookin good! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (skidmarkus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skidmarkus* »_
awesome, any estimates on the cost yet?

Low volume = high costs unfortunately but I will try to be competitive with the entire kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_I saw bev 16v I have to whore..... Lol
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4410956

Wow you have come a long way! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## skidmarkus (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Low volume = high costs unfortunately but I will try to be competitive with the entire kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

cool cant wait to see more http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*Re: (skidmarkus)*

ok few questions. 
stock avh crank is cast right? what do i need for forged? fsi? aeg?
the arp head studs are special right? 
is there a oem timing belt?
thats all for now im sure there's more but cant think right now


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (turbodub)*

just posting and update for all the 16v guys
alright more to show..... I havent connected anything on the rad support yet.... I still have a couple things I need to address prior to reconnecting everything but everything on the motor is ready to go... minus one coolant hose that im waiting on the dealer for.
all my clearances look good... there are a couple welded in screws on the firewall that will hit the turbo when the motor moves but with them cut out I should have about 2-3 inches clearance all around the turbo I will probably run more sheild up the firewall... the only spot that i dont trully like is where the turbo is positioned referencing the A/C lines..... the air intake part of the turbo is going to have to make a hard 90 in order to clear it...... Im hoping I can get it done
I realised a couple days ago that using this 16V scirocco intake just isnt going to jive and I realised today how much more of the pain it would be to use it..... I litterally have no space between the TB and the air filter...... I know i can delete it and I probably will but after that and some interference from the coils and the oil cap Ive decided to go with a shortrunner intake .... should have it a lot easier on the intercooler piping aswell
I also got my TT exhaust all in..... next weekend RabbitMan and I are going to get the downpipe and cat welded in....... and then move on to the intercooler piping
here are some pictures

































and jamie throwing some caffine in the car








car is starting to look like a car again.... cant wait to get her going again


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_ok few questions. 
stock avh crank is cast right? what do i need for forged? fsi? aeg?
the arp head studs are special right? 
is there a oem timing belt?
thats all for now im sure there's more but cant think right now

FSI is an option. All mk4 2.0L cranks are cast.
As far as I know Issam is the only source for the ARP head studs
timing belt: I used a 2004 LEXUS GS300 L6 3.0 Liter FI belt with the stock mk4 2.0L tensioner. I believe the mechanical tensioner for the 1.8T is a better option. 
*duke_seb*, what did you end up using for timing?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (elRey)*

I was planning on using the 1.8t tensioner setup but couldn't get it to work because I couldn't find a belt the right size...... The Lexus one is 144 teeth..... The 1.8t was 150..... I found one at napa that was 147 teeth still to long ... It's either 145 or 146 and I didn't know where to get kne so I opted for the 16v tensioner spaced out with the transverse cam gear


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
FSI is an option. All mk4 2.0L cranks are cast.
As far as I know Issam is the only source for the ARP head studs
timing belt: I used a 2004 LEXUS GS300 L6 3.0 Liter FI belt with the stock mk4 2.0L tensioner. I believe the mechanical tensioner for the 1.8T is a better option. 
*duke_seb*, what did you end up using for timing?


i would deff want to use a mechanical tensioner! and if using the mechanical one can a 9a 16v belt be used? from what i can see the fsi crank is the way to go. oh how about main bolts?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*

one thing i found out about the lexus belt and the 1.8T tensioner is that the tensioner is just a little too skinny.......if oyu lay it on top you can see it has a 3 mm gap underneath


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
FSI is an option. All mk4 2.0L cranks are cast.
As far as I know Issam is the only source for the ARP head studs
timing belt: I used a 2004 LEXUS GS300 L6 3.0 Liter FI belt with the stock mk4 2.0L tensioner. I believe the mechanical tensioner for the 1.8T is a better option. 
*duke_seb*, what did you end up using for timing?



Rey,
The cast 92.8mm cranks are only in North America but yes you are right.
ARP head studs are special yes
as for the timing belt,I will be showcasing a couple of options shortly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Rey,
The cast 92.8mm cranks are only in North America but yes you are right.
ARP head studs are special yes
as for the timing belt,I will be showcasing a couple of options shortly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


and camgear as well?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_
and camgear as well?


Yes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Spooled20v (Jul 19, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_I'm getting an AEB block shortly to try this out. This is going to be a slow, as time and money allow, build. I'd like to run a TDI crank with 83.5mm (or bigger if safe) pistons. I need to see if anyone makes stroker 16v pistons or if they have to be made. Ideally I'd like 2.2L at 12:1 compression in an 06x block with a 16V head and MLS head gasket. 

FYI An *AEB* block is not a 06x block it is a 058 block with an external waterpump, intermediate shaft driven oil pump and 11mm head bolts. Different bag o tricks altogether to what this thread is about.


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*

any more info on the belt, tensioner, gear situation?


----------



## skidmarkus (Sep 20, 2007)

issam any updates on the cnc'd parts?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (skidmarkus)*

i think he stopped making them...
realised that building a MKIV 16V is nothing but a pain in the ass








jk
read my sig thread for updates


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (skidmarkus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skidmarkus* »_issam any updates on the cnc'd parts?

Just waiting for them to come in and then I update.


----------



## skidmarkus (Sep 20, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

duke you know i watch your thread all day, i envy you and your bev. and issam lets get this ball rollin, my 8v still way too slow. alot of these tonight


----------



## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

Just out of curiosity, how similar are the mounting bolts from an 058 (or is the audi 1.8t block an 06A?) and an 06x? I might try an 06x 16v into a B3q Audi if they are similar.


_Modified by franque at 3:13 PM 12-18-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (franque)*


_Quote, originally posted by *franque* »_Just out of curiosity, how similar are the mounting bolts from an 058 (or is the audi 1.8t block an 06A?) and an 06x? I might try an 06x 16v into a B3q Audi if they are similar.

COmpletely different
If you need 06A mounting brackets for a B2/B3/B4 I have them now - 450 USD for the pair.


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_ALH 95.5 does fit in the 06A block .ALH motor is actually part of the 06X family.


I have not yet seen inside the AEG block, but the oil pump is driven by chain from the crank?
Does the ALH crank already have the correct gear to drive the oil pump? What about any of the other TDI cranks?
Should I be using the 16V timing gear on the TDI crank? Or is the mk4 8v timing gear fat like the 16v (unlike earlier 8vs)? Is there a difference in the belt between the gasser and diesel? Gotta get my gears straight.
Then I would use 16V rods and 16V stroker pistons?
And I'd need the ARP studs...

Pre-planning winter projects.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_
I have not yet seen inside the AEG block, but the oil pump is driven by chain from the crank?

Yes it has a chain driven oil pump

_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_
Does the ALH crank already have the correct gear to drive the oil pump? What about any of the other TDI cranks?

Depending on the model.Most ALH's have the correct oil pump drive gear yes.

_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_
Should I be using the 16V timing gear on the TDI crank? Or is the mk4 8v timing gear fat like the 16v (unlike earlier 8vs)? Is there a difference in the belt between the gasser and diesel? Gotta get my gears straight.

You will need to buy a modified TDI crank gear - I sell them for 179 USD with a dowel.
Diesel's use different timing gears for the crankshaft to gasoline motors.

_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_
Then I would use 16V rods and 16V stroker pistons?

Not if you are using the 95.5 crank no

_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_
And I'd need the ARP studs...


Head studs? Sure http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

What would the right rods and pistons be to use withe 95.5mm crank?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_What would the right rods and pistons be to use withe 95.5mm crank?

You will need aftermarket pistons (JE) for this.
Rods will be any 144/20mm rod
if you need pistons let me know....ive been selling JE pistons for these kind of applications for over 6 years.


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

You've just got it all, huh?








I'll have to do some research on the modded crank gear. So with an AEG block, you'd run a modded TDI crank gear. I assume this is the same width as a 16v belt? What about water pump? Is there a water pump with a wider cog to accommodate for the fatty 16v width belt? 1.8T pump and belt tensioner? Or is it safe to drive the 16v valve train with that little 8v width belt?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_You've just got it all, huh?









....after years of doing this ,what becomes insane to some becomes the norm for others









_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_
I'll have to do some research on the modded crank gear. So with an AEG block, you'd run a modded TDI crank gear. I assume this is the same width as a 16v belt? What about water pump? Is there a water pump with a wider cog to accommodate for the fatty 16v width belt? 1.8T pump and belt tensioner? Or is it safe to drive the 16v valve train with that little 8v width belt?

You should get your hands on some hardware and that would really help with your project.All 06A motors carry a over 1" wide timing belt (25+mm) so whatever combo you can think of is certainly reachable.


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

Just waiting on the AEG block to get rolling. My buddy has one local, were just both really busy and have conflicting schedules. I mean the car already runs well so this is somewhat of a bonus project to be built outside of the car to replace my tired old 9A. 
I'm a bit wary about the TDI crank because of the crappy rod stroke ratio and the little gains to be had but bumping displacement is one of the few gains to be had on a n/a carbed motor. The other thing making me hesitate is the rumored loss of top end. The carbs scream up high. I'd hate to limit that. We'll see I guess. The car runs great now so I've got all the time in the world to get a second motor built. And good thing, because my girl keeps finding more house projects to do...


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

just keeping you guys up to date....
my MKIV 16V Turbo build is coming together only a few piece and some software back from being done..... if you havent been watching my thread you can see it in my sig


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (calituner)*

*Issam Abed*
CAM timing..... is the CAM timing off any with this combo requiring an adjustable CAM gear? If so, by how much would it be off? 
I just used a stock 06A gear with stock 9A cams. It runs solid. So, it couldn't be off by much if at all.
I didn't know if you actually measured any timing phase or not.



_Modified by elRey at 11:15 AM 1-7-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_*Issam Abed*
CAM timing..... is the CAM timing off any with this combo requiring an adjustable CAM gear? If so, by how much would it be off? 
I just used a stock 06A gear with stock 9A cams. It runs solid. So, it couldn't be off by much if at all.
I didn't know if you actually measured any timing phase or not.

I am dealing with this on the weekend.Will be able to show my findings then.More than likely an adjustable cam gear will not be needed considering an 16V head is essentially an 8V head in terms of geometry.I highly doubt your timing off is off.
Unlike the ABA 20V which was a completely interesting subject.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Obviously there has been an ass-load of discussion on this but wanted to add my two cents... I Fricking LOVE the 06A block for these reasons:
1) All the engine fasteners are the same size.
2) There are considerably less places to spring leaks because the flanges are better engineered and there are less of them.
3) Internal Waterpump with Steel impeller spins to 9000RPM all day without cavitation.
4) Internal Oil Pump and lack of Intermediate Shaft create a far stronger higher revving capability. (Note: 5-30 or 5-40 Synthetic OIL is the only way to insure trouble free operation.)
5) Superior Block Strength reduces internal vibrations and when you update to the 06X you can run the Fluidampr Harmonic Balancer/Accessory Pulley which has been an awesome addition to my engine in its own right.


----------



## jettalvr41 (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

can a 16v head swap be done on BEV engine code. i see lots of info for older model engine codes. but im super tired of my slow 8v BEV


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (jettalvr41)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jettalvr41* »_can a 16v head swap be done on BEV engine code. i see lots of info for older model engine codes. but im super tired of my slow 8v BEV 

read my thread in my sig I'm doing one now


----------



## Shifty (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

For those wanting to hear one of these run for themselves, here's a short video of ours revving for the first time. The lifters are still ticking a bit here, there's an exhaust leak, and the camera speaker sucks... but you get the idea.







In person the motor purrs very nicely. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJhRKccV7iA


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Shifty)*

Happy to see more of these coming up!








Everyone owes elrey a huge http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

Got my AEG block this weekend!


----------



## stickman (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: (hypothetical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_4) Internal Oil Pump and lack of Intermediate Shaft create a far stronger higher revving capability. (Note: 5-30 or 5-40 Synthetic OIL is the only way to insure trouble free operation.)


If what you're saying about oil weight is true then this might not be a good option for some people depending on what pistons/clearance they run. I had to run 20W50 synthetic for my 9A to not eat oil (going past the JE pistons). First try was 10W-30 synthetic with no luck. 5W-40 could be a potential nightmare.
Issam, do you know if they cylinder thickness is the same as a 9A? Reason I ask is for some people running 84.5mm bore. Also do you know anyone has run that bore? TIA.
Brian


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (stickman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stickman* »_
If what you're saying about oil weight is true then this might not be a good option for some people depending on what pistons/clearance they run. I had to run 20W50 synthetic for my 9A to not eat oil (going past the JE pistons). First try was 10W-30 synthetic with no luck. 5W-40 could be a potential nightmare.
Issam, do you know if they cylinder thickness is the same as a 9A? Reason I ask is for some people running 84.5mm bore. Also do you know anyone has run that bore? TIA.
Brian

I was only posting my experience. i am certain the 5W50 Mobile One would operate without issue. My point was that most oil issues come from people running generic dyno oil in the engines. A quality oil and proper maintenance intervals eliminates 99.9% of the issues reported with internal oil pumps.
84.5mm, WOW!!! Biggest I've seen in person was 84mm and that was on a circle track car....


----------



## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

I know that this is slightly OT, but I searched and couldn't find an answer, so I will ask here, what would be advantages of using the 058 block over the ABA?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (franque)*

Read the whole thread it's been asked and answered a few times


----------



## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: (duke_seb)*

Not 06x, 058.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *franque* »_Not 06x, 058.

058 has nothing to do with this thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *stickman* »_
Issam, do you know if they cylinder thickness is the same as a 9A? Reason I ask is for some people running 84.5mm bore. Also do you know anyone has run that bore? TIA.
Brian

Same cylinder wall thickness and same bore.I wouldnt run an 84.5mm bore but that is just me.Biggest I would go on an N/A motor is 84mm.Jarod I believe has gone to 85mm bore but he will have to confirm.


----------



## khemiicalz (Mar 25, 2009)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Same cylinder wall thickness and same bore.I wouldn't run an 84.5mm bore but that is just me.Biggest I would go on an N/A motor is 84mm.Jarod I believe has gone to 85mm bore but he will have to confirm.

i read trough this thread and didnt find a definite answer,
is the 16v/06a more of a convenient/reliability build or are you seeking any performance gains aver the 16v/aba or just a 9a engine?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (khemiicalz)*

the purpose of the 06x is to use factory MKIV wiring..... on a mkiii its to use the aba wiring


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

I'm just using it because it's a fresher block and "updated" design. And I because I scored the block for $free.99.


----------



## khemiicalz (Mar 25, 2009)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_the purpose of the 06x is to use factory MKIV wiring..... on a mkiii its to use the aba wiring

i read isaam mentioning swapping it on a A2,
is there any advantage with the internal WP and chain driven OP?
i also read trough a elrey's build thread, made 122hp (not sure if it was whp or at the crank) with a 16v head and a stock block with 9a internals, a 9a makes 134, and a aba/16v(abf) makes around 140ish iirc, 
so this engine combo is stronger but has less hp?

_Modified by khemiicalz at 1:51 PM 1-19-2010_


_Modified by khemiicalz at 2:02 PM 1-19-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_the purpose of the 06x is to use factory MKIV wiring..... on a mkiii its to use the aba wiring
As well putting all the accessories on 1 belt AND having a newer motor to obtain replacement parts from.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (khemiicalz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *khemiicalz* »_
i read isaam mentioning swapping it on a A2,
is there any advantage with the internal WP and chain driven OP?
i also read trough a elrey's build thread, made 122hp (not sure if it was whp or at the crank) with a 16v head and a stock block with 9a internals, a 9a makes 134, and a aba/16v(abf) makes around 140ish iirc, 
so this engine combo is stronger but has less hp?

The block will make little difference if the tuning is the same.
All things being equal you can make the same power from these motors.
- 9A has 10.5:1 Compression
- 06A with 9A pistons makes 10.5:1 Compression
and 8-10% less with as an NA motor:
- ABA with 9A pistons nets 9:1 Compression
Problem with comparing HP numbers is all things are not equal... Case in point. I made 145Whp on a 1.8L 16V using stand alone... The tune once you've chosen your hardware is where you make the power


----------



## sr20de (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (hypothetical)*

I'm not sure why you would do this in a MKIV unless the MKIV is just a 2.0 to begin with. A 20V 1.8T has to breathe better than a 20 year old 16V. And if you want a 2.0 under your 1.8T, you can build those as we've seen now, or buy a 2.2 from Eurospec for a pretty good price and make even more power. But this does seem to make sense for an upgrade in older chassis cars as the parts are more prevalent.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (sr20de)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sr20de* »_ unless the MKIV is just a 2.0 to begin with. 
Thanks for pointing out the obvious







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sr20de (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Thanks for pointing out the obvious







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Of course, it'll still be an ugly, heavy ass MKIV and not even a 16v head is going to make it fast.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (sr20de)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sr20de* »_Of course, it'll still be an ugly, heavy ass MKIV and not even a 16v head is going to make it fast.

Yup,
Anything else to add? Would love to see some technical content from you.


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *sr20de* »_I'm not sure why you would do this in a MKIV unless the MKIV is just a 2.0 to begin with. A 20V 1.8T has to breathe better than a 20 year old 16V. And if you want a 2.0 under your 1.8T, you can build those as we've seen now, or buy a 2.2 from Eurospec for a pretty good price and make even more power. But this does seem to make sense for an upgrade in older chassis cars as the parts are more prevalent.


oh yes it has to breathe better


----------



## Spooled20v (Jul 19, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Would love to see some technical content from you.









I'd love to see some from him as well.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

Question for the pro's.... Is the AZG and AEG crank the same?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_Question for the pro's.... Is the AZG and AEG crank the same?

Yes
both are cast, but the difference maybe the impulse wheel.If I remember correctly the impulse wheel on the AEG was "open" whereas the AZG was closed/solid design.


----------



## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

Issam, thanks for the great thread! There's some real food for thought here! I might have missed something, but most info here on the 06x/16V hybrid seems to be assuming a Mk4 2L 8V 06a short block. 
Did an 06a (or other 06x family 2.0L) ever come in a longitudinal config (e.g., a 2.0L with mounts and such that would mechanically bolt up to a '99 B5 Passat, which originally came with an 058 block)? 
If not, would the mounts from a later 1.8L 06b B5/B6 work to mount the Mk4 06a onto the early B5 crossmember? 
Is the 2.0T FSI an 06x, and even if not, would it bolt in as above (perhaps using its B7 mounts)? 
Is the 2.0TSI an 06x family block, and even if not, would it bolt in as above (perhaps using its B8 mounts)? 
Can a PL or 9A 16V non-FSI head be bolted onto a 2.0T/FSI short block, and if so, with what mods/parts? 


_Modified by o2bad455 at 6:17 PM 1-30-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (o2bad455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_Issam, thanks for the great thread! There's some real food for thought here! I might have missed something, but most info here on the 06x/16V hybrid seems to be assuming a Mk4 2L 8V 06a short block. 
Did an 06a (or other 06x family 2.0L) ever come in a longitudinal config (e.g., a 2.0L with mounts and such that would mechanically bolt up to a '99 B5 Passat, which originally came with an 058 block)? 
If not, would the mounts from a later 1.8L 06b B5/B6 work to mount the Mk4 06a onto the early B5 crossmember? 

06X = any internal water pump block produced between 2000 & 2009...so:
06A - VW MKIV GTI
06B - Audi TT 225
06F - VW MKV GTI - aka FSI motor.
All these blocks have mounting provisions for VW transverse or Audi longitudinal.The mounting points are there.









_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
Is the 2.0T FSI an 06x, and even if not, would it bolt in as above (perhaps using its B7 mounts)? 

Late B5 to B7 use the same engine mount brackets.

_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
Is the 2.0TSI an 06x family block, and even if not, would it bolt in as above (perhaps using its B8 mounts)?

B8 uses the 3rd generation of Volkswagen water cooled engines. Nothing in the late VW MKV/MKVI or the B8 will work in the earlier engines.You will have the transplant the entire motor. 

_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
Can a PL or 9A 16V non-FSI head be bolted onto a 2.0T/FSI short block, and if so, with what mods/parts? 

Same as this thread. FSI block follows the same format.


----------



## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
06X = any internal water pump block produced between 2000 & 2009...so:
06A - VW MKIV GTI
06B - Audi TT 225
06F - VW MKV GTI - aka FSI motor.
All these blocks have mounting provisions for VW transverse or Audi longitudinal.The mounting points are there.









Thanks! I think I had some of my 06x codes confused, but you fully answered my question. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Late B5 to B7 use the same engine mount brackets.


That's GREAT news









_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_B8 uses the 3rd generation of Volkswagen water cooled engines. Nothing in the late VW MKV/MKVI or the B8 will work in the earlier engines.You will have the transplant the entire motor. 
Same as this thread. FSI block follows the same format.

I see. So the improved "TSI" is really a new animal (family). Good to know! 
Back to the idea of using a B7 2.0T FSI short block with a PL/9A 16V head, should stock PL/9A 16V head bolts suffice?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (o2bad455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
I see. So the improved "TSI" is really a new animal (family). Good to know! 

Yes...I expect all of the new motors to follow this block format from the TDI's to the NA motors.This motor will serve VAG for at least 10 years+

_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
Back to the idea of using a B7 2.0T FSI short block with a PL/9A 16V head, should stock PL/9A 16V head bolts suffice? 

No, those are M11. You will need M10 which I sell for 179.99 USD. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

I guess there are actually several options for the cylinder head fasteners (M11 16V head to M10 06x block):
1) Special ARP studs as spec'd and sold by Issam (INA). 
2) McMaster bolts 91290A560 as sourced and used by duke_seb.
3) Stock PL/9A 16V stretch bolts if you drill and re-tap the block.
4) Normal ARP 16V studs if you drill and re-tap the block. 
I guess 20V bolts/studs are too short, but how about FSI bolts? 
Has anyone already compared the relative tensile strengths of any of the above options (1-4)? 


_Modified by o2bad455 at 8:36 PM 1-31-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (o2bad455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
Has anyone already compared the relative tensile strengths of any of the above options (1-4)? 

No because there is no point...
You can go by McMaster bolts and hope for the best or go with a properly speced out ARP stud which is designed to not stretch under load.
And 20V/FSI components wont work.


----------



## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
No because there is no point...
You can go by McMaster bolts and hope for the best or go with a properly speced out ARP stud which is designed to not stretch under load.

ARP fasteners are great, possibly the best, but they're also more expensive than some other options. Nothing's perfect, though. For example, even though they don't stretch much, I have had ARP fasteners (rod bolt nuts in my case) loosen up in a pro-built engine. Imagine my surprise, after running junkyard engines successfully for years, to have my first pro-built engine ventilate on the 3rd lap of its 2nd race. I still think they're better than stock, overall, but they do have their own disadvantages (expense, need for more accurate installation torque and good thread-locker, etc.). Obviously, many high-output builds really need the best, particularly as VW continues to reduce the OEM head bolt diameter (darn bean-counters, I presume). That said, I'd definitely add the small M10 head bolt threads of the 06x to the disadvantages side of your original summary. 
Here, some of us are just trying to build the most decent NA street engine that we can on a tight budget, so the best may not always be necessary. Others may have more time than money, so re-tapping for less expensive and/or stronger hardware might make some sense. You're now a man of two hats (and two 'tex names, I see, but I realize it must be difficult to separate the enthusiast from his enthusiast-related business and make each post under the appropriate banner). I mean no disrespect. I think we all benefit greatly from your experience and wisdom, as well as your willingness and ability to source unusual parts. 
I'm sure you still remember when you too were trying to build the best machine you could on a tight budget. Here, that's all I'm trying to do, and I simply need more information before I would decide to spend $180 versus $25-$50 for just one line item in my build (should I even decide that the 06x is the right way to go on this one). ARP stuff is fantastic, and I realize it's not always about the numbers, but I think minimum tensile strength is at least one bit of information that's worthy of consideration by anyone considering this build on a tight budget. 'Nuf said? 
Anyway, here's what I've come up with so far. Not all sources list exactly the same numbers -- some say 220,000 for ARP Pro, but ARP itself only says 200,000. Thus, I think these numbers are accurate enough for comparison purposes: 
ARP Pro Series: 200,000+ psi
ARP HP Series: 180,000 psi
McMaster M10 12.9: 174,000 psi
Stock VW stretch bolts: 157,000 psi (would require drilling and re-tapping 06x block)
So, according to these numbers, it looks to me like the McMaster bolts are both cheaper and stronger than OEM stretch bolts, even if not quite as strong as the ARP HP studs, and obviously not nearly as strong as the ARP Pro studs. 


_Modified by o2bad455 at 6:37 PM 2-1-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (o2bad455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *o2bad455* »_
Stock VW stretch bolts: 157,000 psi (would require drilling and re-tapping 06x block)

Not an option for most and judging by the people who have been asking me for the ARP studs I would say they are pretty reasonably priced.


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

I saw on another vw forum that we can use the head bolt from the R32 for the 16v head on a 2.0l 8v mk4.
_*Part # VW 022 103 384 M*_ 
I have not tried it yet, but I'll try it!
I hope it's going to serve and please the fans of VW!


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Jolf3)*

Keep us posted I'd be veery interested in knowing


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Jolf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_I saw on another vw forum...

what forum is that?
also at 141mm long, they may be a tad on the short side. Stock 16v bolts are 144mm long. The AZG block does not have threads on the top 1/4"-3/8" of the hole. The 9A block does. If you were to drill and tap for M11 that wouldn't be an issue. But if you were to use the block as is you would have less 1/4-38" + 3mm less threads engaged. And it may be more than 1/4-3/8" counter sunk. Ideally you want at least a 155mm bolt.


_Modified by elRey at 9:48 AM 2-5-2010_


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
what forum is that?
also at 141mm long, they may be a tad on the short side.

_Modified by elRey at 9:41 AM 2-5-2010_

On vwquebec.ca a vw forum from Quebec, Canada, it's in french.
http://www.vwquebec.ca/forum/s...e-mk3 
On page 2!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_I saw on another vw forum that we can use the head bolt from the R32 for the 16v head on a 2.0l 8v mk4.
_*Part # VW 022 103 384 M*_ 
I have not tried it yet, but I'll try it!
I hope it's going to serve and please the fans of VW! 

Nice find!
But I am with Rey on this one, the thread engagement may not be a whole lot to warrant the use/purchase of it.
I do not even think you can buy head bolts separate?Whatever the case let us know! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*

heres my thought on headbolts. if you cannot afford some real head studs you shouldnt be swapping heads


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_heres my thought on headbolts. if you cannot afford some real head studs you shouldnt be swapping heads









x2... I would not want to be the one who built the motor with experimental bolts that weren't long enough only to see my budget build go to the **** pile because of them...


----------



## Justin 123 (Apr 11, 2005)

If everyone was too afraid to try, no one else would be able to copy.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Justin 123)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_If everyone was too afraid to try, no one else would be able to copy. 

LOL
good analogy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Justin 123* »_If everyone was too afraid to try, no one else would be able to copy. 


there is no reason to try something new that is so small and yet so important and is proven


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*

Anther question is the AEG and AVH cranks the same?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_Anther question is the AEG and AVH cranks the same?

Yes they are http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

Next question, is there a way to diferentiate the blocks themselves? Meaning I have just a block sitting here and I don't know if it's an AEG, AZG or AVH.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_Next question, is there a way to diferentiate the blocks themselves? Meaning I have just a block sitting here and I don't know if it's an AEG, AZG or AVH.

There is a window by the oil filter housing for the crankcase breather.You should be able to see the oil squirter from there.If not then it is an AEG.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

as far as i can remember all the blocks are the same after the AEG.... AEG came without squirters all MKIV 2L's after came with them
dave do you know what year the motor came out of?.... 99-01 your AEG everything after has squirters and im pretty sure is the same bottom end


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*

New head bolts found!
The same guy on vwquebec.ca has found new head bolts longer!
BMW 325 1985 with the M20 engine.
M10x1.5x150mm.
http://www.vwquebec.ca/forum/s...page4


----------



## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

interesting. i only had time to read the 1st page....but is this block a bolt on item with said arp hardware? or is there other things needed? or is it a custom deal?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

1985 325e head bolt set:
(Victor Reinz - W0133-1626368)








I've yet to see thread and length specs on any website.


_Modified by elRey at 1:21 PM 2-10-2010_


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

Someone call BMW and get those specs..... The parts guys should be able to tell u


----------



## MK2TDI (Feb 11, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*

M10x 150mm


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_Someone call BMW and get those specs..... The parts guys should be able to tell u


tell him what youre using them for too! he will prob tell you to get arp's

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## darks_aint (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

i like the pro and cons but i wud want 2 add this....con very expensive in my country,.....and my biggest con THE CHAIN DRIVEN PUMP the chain breaks i don't understand y but i rather the shat dribrn pump n e day plus its cheaper


----------



## darks_aint (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

i have NEVER NEVER changed I M shaft bearings and i dont wear oil pump that way whn we changed a oil pump is due to age +hard life but whn we check the IM bearings they still gud (THANX VALVOLINE)


----------



## darks_aint (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (NJRrado)*

TO NJRrado u very confused


----------



## darks_aint (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: (dubdaze68)*

i agree with the ali oil pan in jamaica i can export a lot of the engines that hit their oil pans on a pothole .... my mk3 i jus hammer out mine weld up in the worst case


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (darks_aint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darks_aint* »_i like the pro and cons but i wud want 2 add this....con very expensive in my country,.....and my biggest con THE CHAIN DRIVEN PUMP the chain breaks i don't understand y but i rather the shat dribrn pump n e day plus its cheaper 

Cool story.
Has nothing to do with this thread though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mcdub (Jun 19, 2005)

*Re: (darks_aint)*

I dont know if it was mentioned,but a main reason for doing this,is the elimination of them IM SHAFT HOLE in the block.
If you are building a serious 16v,you know the 9a pl,or ABA blocks all have that nasty hole,were the blocks have been prone to splitting at.
Nothing is industructable.
Would like too hear one run


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (darks_aint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darks_aint* »_i like the pro and cons but i wud want 2 add this....con very expensive in my country,.....and my biggest con THE CHAIN DRIVEN PUMP the chain breaks i don't understand y but i rather the shat dribrn pump n e day plus its cheaper 

what?

_Quote, originally posted by *darks_aint* »_i have NEVER NEVER changed I M shaft bearings and i dont wear oil pump that way whn we changed a oil pump is due to age +hard life but whn we check the IM bearings they still gud (THANX VALVOLINE) 

what? what?

_Quote, originally posted by *darks_aint* »_i agree with the ali oil pan in jamaica i can export a lot of the engines that hit their oil pans on a pothole .... my mk3 i jus hammer out mine weld up in the worst case









what? what? what?


----------



## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

ARP head studs for the M20 BMW
$220








http://www.racetep.com/arp.html

vs:
Head bolts
$16









[URL="http://www.germanimportedpar....html"]http://www.germanimportedparts....html

-Dave


----------



## Cushy (Oct 16, 2008)

does this setup have any relation to the 6a\ACE block? whats the same and whats different? im leaning towards the 16v ACE block out of an audi 80 with a 3.6 V8 head on itbs. I would be curious as to how many of the afformentioned parts can be found in US spec models. Any help Issam? Ive seen your name in both threads so i think youd be the guy to ask.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: (veefreek)*

Well I finally made the plunge. 
Time to make some damn power in this Rabbit.


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_Well I finally made the plunge. 
Time to make some damn power in this Rabbit.










nice! i have 2 short blocks sitting here now, a complete fsi motor on its way today so i can strip it for the crank(haha i feel like the fsi forum would cry about this) gonna figure out if there is a vw belt that will fit with a 16v tensioner soon too


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*

Yes I think there needs to be a parts list gathered for this setup, for others to be able to use, much like the ABA list. It's well known what's needed. 
So... on that note I'll try and start, maybe Issam and others can add to it. Some things have been stated and are obvious but I'll just try and make it easier for others. 
Parts needed for the 16v to AEG/AZG/AVH.
- complete MKIV 2.0L bottom end
- complete 16v head
- Pistons and rods from a 16v 9A/AEB rods are required. AZG+ rods will not work with 9A pistons. AEG are iffy.
- Headstuds (ARP, Mcmaster)
- AZG head gasket
- Custom passenger side mount required in order to mount in a MKI and MKII, not sure about MKIII?
Some unknowns (to me anyways)
- which tensioner (seems to me that the 16v tensioner is the common choice)???
- which cam pulley? I thought I read in here to use the 8v cam pulley, or am I loosing it???
- which belt???

_Modified by Jeebus at 1:35 PM 3-5-2010_

_Modified by Jeebus at 1:36 PM 3-5-2010_


_Modified by Jeebus at 6:08 PM 3-5-2010_


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*

I pretty much already made a lot of that list on my project threads first page


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*

Your list is thorough but pertains to a MKIV. What we need is a basic list of the main parts to get this motor together. 
How it's actually run, meaning coolant hoses, and wiring is different for each person based on which model car it's going in and what application they're using it for.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*

I was refering to all the hardware u were listing in the previous post
I have part numbers for a number of those things


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_- Pistons and rods from a 16v... (maybe just pistons someone confirm)
- Headstuds (ARP, Mcmaster)

9A/AEB rods are required. AZG+ rods will not work with 9A pistons. AEG are iffy.
Until I pull my head off again and see how the McMaster bolts are doing and if they deformed my head due to not being stretch bolts, I'll recommend ARP or these BMW if they pan out.


----------



## almstVW (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_
a complete fsi motor on its way today so i can strip it for the crank


i'm looking for one of those also...


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

Thanks elRey I updated my post.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_
Some unknowns (to me anyways)
- which tensioner (seems to me that the 16v tensioner is the common choice)???
- which cam pulley? I thought I read in here to use the 8v cam pulley, or am I loosing it???
- which belt???


Tensioner has to be a spaced out 16V one.... I tried that and the 1.8T one and with the damper you cant find a belt to make it work..... your not going to find a belt that can fit 150tooth 18T belts are way to long and the 144 tooth belt is too short.... i tried 144,145,147 (146 may work if you can find it.... NAPA says it doesnt exist)

_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_Ok a couple things to report
I got my hands on a 1.8t tensioners and damper so I attempted to use that but with them I found the Lexus belt was too short I would say by about 4 teeth I'm looking into another belt to see if I can make it work... I like the tensioners system better on the 1.8t so I would rather use it if I can..... I also noticed that the 1.8t tensioners is a little skinnier then the 16v one the Lexus belt doesn't quite fit just a but to big
here is a picture of the belt in both setups

















_Modified by duke_seb at 8:36 PM 11-24-2009_

the Cam Pulley is from a transverse 1.8T... it looks exactly like the one on the 16V but it sticks out about a 1/4 more to line everything up
Part # 06B 109 111
the Belt I used the Lexus GS300 FI Belt (of note that belt was just a little too wide to run on the 1.8T tensioner


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*

so cam pulley is from a late style 1.8t? i thought everyone was using a mk4 2.0 pulley. also how is the 16v tensioner spaced out? and how much? whats the p/n on the lexus belt?


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*

There is a 1.8t tensioner that's exactly the same as the 16v, the difference is that the 1.8t tensioner is spaced out a bit further, I'm thinking that one will work. 
As for the Cam pulley... can someone confirm the if the 2.0L pulley can be used?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*

geez dave do you just ignore me








_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_
As for the Cam pulley... can someone confirm the if the 2.0L pulley can be used?

2L wont work the keys are different and the not in the same place


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*

It's not a matter of not hearing you. Someone said in this thread you could. It's called weeding out the options. Others have done this swap and used different options. I'm just trying to find the best one for me. Thanks for the info though. 
From looking at this, I don't understand why the 16v tensioner and pulley doesn't work.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_
From looking at this, I don't understand why the 16v tensioner and pulley doesn't work.









its all because of the internal waterpump.... it spaces out the belt a 1/4"
16V tensioner does work if you space it...... as for the 18T one that is like the 16V but spaced out I couldnt find it.... the dealer didnt knwo what i was talking about and didnt have anything for me to compare too
16V Pulley








1.8T Pulley


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_its all because of the internal waterpump.... it spaces out the belt a 1/4"

technically it's because of the chain driven oil pump. It's just that also moved the waterpump internally when they switch to the new oil pump.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_as for the 18T one that is like the 16V but spaced out I couldnt find it.... the dealer didnt knwo what i was talking about and didnt have anything for me to compare too


It does exist cause I had one here for a 1.8t I was working on. Actually had to take it back and get the 16v one for this specific application.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_
It does exist cause I had one here for a 1.8t I was working on. Actually had to take it back and get the 16v one for this specific application. 

someone really needs to get that part number


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_
someone really needs to get that part number

I highly recommend using the Autotech camgear + the spacer kit for the 16V tensioner. Using the stock AWP pulley (I found) is not going to bring both the head and block into TDC. When I checked it was off by maybe 1 degree or so.
I know it is late for me but I will be contributing to this thread with 2 builds.
1 is a 2.0 16V and the other is a 2.1 16V.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_it was off by maybe 1 degree or so.

How would this affect performance?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

does it really matter on stock ECU?.... doesnt the management alter to correct for that?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
How would this affect performance?

I am not sure as I do not have this on a stock ECU like you do.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I highly recommend using the Autotech camgear + the spacer kit for the 16V tensioner. Using the stock AWP pulley (I found) is not going to bring both the head and block into TDC. When I checked it was off by maybe 1 degree or so.
I know it is late for me but I will be contributing to this thread with 2 builds.
1 is a 2.0 16V and the other is a 2.1 16V.









So regarding the Autotech cam... am I not correct by saying that the autotech cam pulley still won't push the pulley out far enough? Or are you seperating the AT pulley and flipping it... or is it just the wrong pulley alltogether?


_Modified by Jeebus at 1:32 AM 3-7-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Jeebus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jeebus* »_
So regarding the Autotech cam... am I not correct by saying that the autotech cam pulley still won't push the pulley out far enough? Or are you seperating the AT pulley and flipping it... or is it just the wrong pulley alltogether?

Autotech has 2 cam pulley's. You need the 06A application one , not the 058 unit.You can make the 058 unit work if you put a spacer inside the adjustable cam pulley itself but then you start messing around with the rigidity of the pulley.


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*

so the cam pulley for a late style 1.8t is the correct one?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_so the cam pulley for a late style 1.8t is the correct one?
yes ... part number is in the list of parts at the start on my build thread


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_so the cam pulley for a late style 1.8t is the correct one?

Which part #?
The one I used that was OEM was 06A 109

_Quote, originally posted by *almstVW* »_
i'm looking for one of those also...

I have a bunch of FSI crankshafts if you are interested.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Which part #?
The one I used that was OEM was 06A 109
.

where did you get that number from?.... mine is 06B 109 111 and its perfect


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_
where did you get that number from?.... mine is 06B 109 111 and its perfect

From the cam pulley I have here.This is a case of 6 of one , half a dozen of the other. Many cam pulley's will work in this configuration but I used the one that has adjustability with it.








Added this image to the front page.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

What is the item between tensioner and waterpump, right below t-belt?


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*

thats a roller for the timing belt, its on the dampner of 1.8t's. issam are you using it because of a longer belt?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_thats a roller for the timing belt, its on the dampner of 1.8t's. issam are you using it because of a longer belt?

You need to use the OEM 1.8T/06A tensioning assembly if you want to close the gap when using the lower timing belt cover so I just included an OEM roller with the kit.


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

Some questions regarding BHP/ torque and power adders:
If going turbo are oil squirters necessary with stock pistons?
How much BHP can the MK4 cast crankshaft handle?
If using a head spacer will any problems occur?


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (ALLGORIMSHOW)*

The crank can handle anything 99% of the vortex can throw at it. Head spacer? Would be better to buy pistons. Oil squirters can't hurt and are basically in all 06 blocks.


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (hypothetical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_The crank can handle anything 99% of the vortex can throw at it. Head spacer? Would be better to buy pistons. Oil squirters can't hurt and are basically in all 06 blocks. 

I understand your quoting Issam but that means nothing without dyno numbers. I'm sure it would be better to buy pistons but yet again that doesn't answer my question. I'm sure squirters "can't" hurt but again not answering my question.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ALLGORIMSHOW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ALLGORIMSHOW* »_
If going turbo are oil squirters necessary with stock pistons?

We always use oil squirters in turbo motors. It will not hurt...
The only turbocharged cars that I know that close the oil squirters off are 7s drag cars in PR.

_Quote, originally posted by *ALLGORIMSHOW* »_
How much BHP can the MK4 cast crankshaft handle?

As much as you can throw at it...

_Quote, originally posted by *ALLGORIMSHOW* »_
If using a head spacer will any problems occur?

Not that I can think of but head spacer for?


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (ALLGORIMSHOW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ALLGORIMSHOW* »_
I understand your quoting Issam but that means nothing without dyno numbers. I'm sure it would be better to buy pistons but yet again that doesn't answer my question. I'm sure squirters "can't" hurt but again not answering my question. 


I have personally made 508Whp on the stock cast crank. Did it for 3 seasons. 
I made 396Whp with a 16v T and spacer, but then I grew up and did it right with pistons. If you use a spacer I recommend studs instead of stock bolts. 
Oil squirters are a Definite if you are daily driving. Some remove
them for racing applications to reduce oil spatter. 
Good luck with your build.


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (hypothetical)*

Good stuff, thanks for answering my questions fellas. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ALLGORIMSHOW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ALLGORIMSHOW* »_Good stuff, thanks for answering my questions fellas. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Anytime
looks like 2 more members of the 06A club.
Welcome


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
You need to use the OEM 1.8T/06A tensioning assembly if you want to close the gap when using the lower timing belt cover so I just included an OEM roller with the kit.


are you using the lexus belt with youre kit?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (turbodub)*

Are 2.5L pistons an option?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Are 2.5L pistons an option? 

looking at this the dont appear to have big enough notches


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (duke_seb)*

They are dished a little bit. So, that would reduce the appearance of the notches.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (elRey)*

im just looking at my wiseco ones right now and i have dish too and the dips are way bigger then that


_Modified by duke_seb at 12:04 PM 3-14-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_
are you using the lexus belt with youre kit?

No

_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Are 2.5L pistons an option? 

correct combination but wrong cut out's for the valves. Valve angles between KR/PL/9A/6A and BGP are different. Might create hot spots or valve kissing if revved high enough. 
Below is the comparison pictures for visual aid.








All of these pistons except for the 1.8T piston come from a 220mm deck height block and use a 144/20mm connecting rod & 92.8mm stroke.I have ordered a titration column to effectively get the correct CC of the piston dome. We know the head is 49cc and the AZG head gasket is 6.65cc so once I have that I can tell you if the BPY or BGP piston will be a better choice.


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
No


any chance youre gonna tell what one then?


----------



## Ex-ricer01 (Jan 28, 2009)

Wow after reading this thread and the one on audi v8 heads, this is making me seriously reconsider my motor swap in my corrado.
it started out with a simple ABA 8v turbo setup with full obd2 swap, and i was given a killer deal on an entire parts car.
but i also have access to atleast one passenger side PT? 3.6 v8 audi head and im sure i could find the better of the O6A blocks with oil squirters.
at that point id probably grab myself some bike ITB's because the junkyards always have them just not sure what i would do for management.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Ex-ricer01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbodub* »_
any chance youre gonna tell what one then?

I will provide the part # in the morning..

_Quote, originally posted by *Ex-ricer01* »_but i also have access to atleast one passenger side PT? 3.6 v8 audi head and im sure i could find the better of the O6A blocks with oil squirters.

I am not sure what the whole craze is over the 3.6 V8 head.Reminds me of 2002....
If you guys are craving a valve cover that badly then why not let us CNC machine one?


----------



## Ex-ricer01 (Jan 28, 2009)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I am not sure what the whole craze is over the 3.6 V8 head.Reminds me of 2002....
If you guys are craving a valve cover that badly then why not let us CNC machine one?
















good point.. i was looking at it from a performance standpoint though, for the price i can get a KR head, i could get the audi head along with the 4.2 cams...thats the selling point for me. But that valve cover is sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ex-ricer01* »_







good point.. i was looking at it from a performance standpoint though, for the price i can get a KR head, i could get the audi head along with the *4.2 cams*...thats the selling point for me. But that valve cover is sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I hope you have a plan to use those cams as anything but paperweights.
Firing order of 4.2 != firing order of 9A 16V
1 crank = all bent valves









Here is the plug wire kit we did for the 16V cylinder head. OEM+


----------



## Ex-ricer01 (Jan 28, 2009)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I hope you have a plan to use those cams as anything but paperweights.
Firing order of 4.2 != firing order of 9A 16V
1 crank = all bent valves

















duh
have you figured out a price you are going to sell those plug wire kits at?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Ex-ricer01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ex-ricer01* »_have you figured out a price you are going to sell those plug wire kits at?

let me know also, please.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
let me know also, please.

Just the wires?
They cost me around $125 USD. If we did a big batch of 10 sets and 1 set colour I am sure the price can be reduced drastically.


----------



## Ex-ricer01 (Jan 28, 2009)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Just the wires?
They cost me around $125 USD. If we did a big batch of 10 sets and 1 set colour I am sure the price can be reduced drastically.

sorry phrased that wrong, i meant the whole kit, i assume whatever is in the above posted kit is important to running a 16v head via coilpack ontop a 06X block. 
sorry if i sound noobish at this, im not very framiliar with the 06X block and find it interesting, for two reasons. no IM shaft and the use of internal waterpump. seems to me it would make the final belt set up much simpler.
i would like to go this route but not sure of what to run on management. was considering mk4 ecu and wiring but im still trying to figure out how to get around IMMO.
how much for the whole kit?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ex-ricer01* »_
how much for the whole kit?

$289 USD
includes:
* Custom plug wires for use on a 16V head
* 034 Motorsport waste spark coil
* OEM AEG/AZG coil pack bracket
* Adapter plate to mount 034 coil on coil pack bracket
* Hardware for the set up.


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
$289 USD
includes:
* Custom plug wires for use on a 16V head
* 034 Motorsport waste spark coil
* OEM AEG/AZG coil pack bracket
* Adapter plate to mount 034 coil on coil pack bracket
* Hardware for the set up.

Why don't you use 16v Coil Bracket and Dist Blockoff ( http://www.034motorsport.com/p...d=417) instead of OEM AEG/AZG coil pack bracket
AND Adapter plate to mount 034 coil on coil pack bracket?
We're going to need a dist blockoff for the 16v head anyway.









034 kit 215$
16v Coil Bracket and Dist Blockoff 45$
Wire Set, VW 16v for 034 Wastespark Coil 95$
034 High Output 4-Cyl Waste Spark Coil 75$


_Modified by Jolf3 at 2:58 PM 4-9-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Jolf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_
We're going to need a dist blockoff for the 16v head anyway.

Not if you are using the distributor for camshaft position then you cant block it off.This kit is for the MKIV 2.0 8V users.

_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_
Why don't you use 16v Coil Bracket and Dist Blockoff instead of OEM AEG/AZG coil pack bracket AND Adapter plate to mount 034 coil on coil pack bracket?.

I helped bring the 16V 034 kit to the market so I know all about the pricing structure















If you are on standalone, you can use EITHER kit . The 034 kit does not work with the scirocco intake manifold so that rules out the G60 16V guys.
So in a nut shell.
MKI / MKII user on OEM CIS - Use the OEM plug wires & distributor
MKI / MKII / MKIII user on standalone - You can use either the INA or 034 kit
MKIV user - INA kit only.


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Not if you are using the distributor for camshaft position then you cant block it off.This kit is for the MKIV 2.0 8V users.
I helped bring the 16V 034 kit to the market so I know all about the pricing structure















If you are on standalone, you can use EITHER kit . The 034 kit does not work with the scirocco intake manifold so that rules out the G60 16V guys.
So in a nut shell.
MKI / MKII user on OEM CIS - Use the OEM plug wires & distributor
MKI / MKII / MKIII user on standalone - You can use either the INA or 034 kit
MKIV user - INA kit only.









Thank you for the clarification!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Jolf3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jolf3* »_
Thank you for the clarification!

No problem.
Welcome the new members of the 06A club


----------



## kewlbreze77 (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

So your Kit for the AVH's... does it come with the pistons already modified with the notches for clearence?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (kewlbreze77)*

I have a set of 16V ones if you want them.... I got them cut before i decided to go with low compression turbo ones


----------



## kewlbreze77 (Oct 11, 2009)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

So your Kit for the AVH's... does it come with the pistons already modified with the notches for clearence?


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

Can AEG's be fitted with oil squirters? I'm having a hard time finding AZG/AVH engines in my area and thats including a major VW used parts supplier (The Source)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (ALLGORIMSHOW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kewlbreze77* »_So your Kit for the AVH's... does it come with the pistons already modified with the notches for clearence?

Yes they do.
We modelled them off our 1.8T pistons so we know all the specs needed to create whatever piston you want.









_Quote, originally posted by *ALLGORIMSHOW* »_Can AEG's be fitted with oil squirters? I'm having a hard time finding AZG/AVH engines in my area and thats including a major VW used parts supplier (The Source)

Yes you can drill and tap them for oil squirters. The boses are there.


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_

Yes you can drill and tap them for oil squirters. The boses are there.









Great, thanks for the info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (ALLGORIMSHOW)*

User RE2 posted an extremely rare find which I just stumbled across. He scanned a very old brochure from GTI Engineering which if you were from the UK or a similar british colony know that these were the guys to go for your OEM conversions. What a great article that actually show cases what increases bore or valves etc can do for power.
Again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

*8V ENGINE KITS : Going from 1781cc to 1870cc to 1996cc's. Notice the power differences. * 









*16V ENGINE KITS : Going from 1781cc to 1893cc to 1996cc's. Again notice the power differences and compare them to the 8V engine* 








Great article.Such an amazing read and really motivates one to get that engine dyno they always wanted.


----------



## Amsterdam087 (Dec 31, 2007)

*Re: 06X-16V Hybrid - Thinking about building a new motor? STOP! READ THIS... (Issam Abed)*

this thread has become a daily read thru and reference for me. 
thanks for taking the time to put all this together.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

You are welcome


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Kaddy said:


> [TR]
> [TD="class: quote"]Are there any off-the-shelf aftermarket pistons that work with this setup, and clear the oil squirters?[/TD]
> [/TR]





Issam Abed said:


> JE's. Wiseco , etc should all clear.


So I got my block back from the machine shop and started putting it together tonight... and I'm super happy to report that this is not true... JE pistons DO NOT CLEAR the oil squirters.  Super agitated right now.


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeebus said:


> So I got my block back from the machine shop and started putting it together tonight... and I'm super happy to report that this is not true... JE pistons DO NOT CLEAR the oil squirters.  Super agitated right now.


 Depends what JE pistons you ordered. If you ordered the off the shelf units then NO they will not clear. If you ordered custom units from me then YES they will clear.


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

Jeebus said:


> So I got my block back from the machine shop and started putting it together tonight... and I'm super happy to report that this is not true... JE pistons DO NOT CLEAR the oil squirters.  Super agitated right now.


take the squirters out and call it a day


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

The question was pretaining to off the shelf pistons.


----------



## khemiicalz (Mar 25, 2009)




----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Although I'm aggeitated that I had to blow more money and hack a part a new set of pistons I'm back on track. The machine shop did an awesome job, you'd never know they were touched. 

Now to start putting this heap together.


----------



## tehmonkay (May 5, 2006)

Can we get a faq on pg 1?

What cam sprocket do we use?

What tensioner do i use if i have an A1 car with a custom mount bracket?

Where can i get the mount bracket and how much?

What are some part numbers for the correct timing belt?

Is this a good idea for people wanting to make 300+ wheel? Or should we go with the FSI block in that case?

Is there a way to just swap the mk4 trigger wheel setup?

I've been reading for like 20 minutes.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

tehmonkay said:


> Can we get a faq on pg 1?
> .


go into the hybrid forum and look for project blacker II BEV 16V

I have a alot of the stuff you need listen in my build thread 

including part numbers for a lot of the stuff

and info on the triggerwheel stuff


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Jeebus said:


> So I got my block back from the machine shop and started putting it together tonight... and I'm super happy to report that this is not true... JE pistons DO NOT CLEAR the oil squirters.  Super agitated right now.


Wiseco ones clear....


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

how is everyone's project going?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

if i could find my bloody timing mark i would be great...


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Issam Abed said:


> how is everyone's project going?


you asked 





elRey said:


> 15 - 16 psi


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

can anyone help with mine.... i cant get it to hold an idle..... just finished changing the timing and all my marks are lined up.....

it starts revs to 3000 then stalls

I know i have fuel, air, and spark...... 

i suppose it could be vaccuum or the CPS in the wrong spot anyone have thoughts?

here is a link to the video
http://gallery.me.com/scottbrookes#100875/Car start 2&bgcolor=black


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

here is a youtube version for those that dont have quicktime


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

im selling all my parts from my project so if anyones interested i have a fsi crank, a bare aeg/avh block, complete aeg or avh block. want it all gone so let me know if anyones interested


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Moving to more cylinders are we?


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

Jeebus said:


> Moving to more cylinders are we?


 I'm dumb, but not that dumb! Still stayin 16v. But just keepin what I have


----------



## vantage1 (Sep 14, 2006)

can i use the knife edged forged crank that autotech sell.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

if its for a 1.8T or 2L i dont see why not


----------



## vantage1 (Sep 14, 2006)

no from the 16 valve


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

just to keep you guys apprised..... I got the car driving

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npBxmuy6tzw

ignore my girl she likes to talk...

ill have better video tomorrow but this should suffice for now


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

vantage1 said:


> can i use the knife edged forged crank that autotech sell.


That wont work in the 06A motors.


----------



## SAGT! (Apr 16, 2009)

*Coolant pipes routing - MK1*

Could anyone please shed some light on the proper routing of the coolant pipes. Particularly the ones from the flange on the front of the 16V head. 
















my motor 
Thanks.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Depends on what car the motors going in. Some block off that front coolant passage. Mines going in a Rabbit so I had to make all my lines cause I don't have a heater core either but I'm still using the front one on the head.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Well after a lot of figuring out I finally have my motor together... and actually in the car. 

Because this is going in a MKI Rabbit I had to make my own coolant lines, Pass side motor mount, and completely hack apart the alternator bracket and source a new serp belt as my car has no P/S or A/C. 

All together 









And in the car as of last night.


----------



## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

Jeebus, 

What happened to the 16v bro?


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Fast929 said:


> Jeebus,
> 
> What happened to the 16v bro?


 ??? It's still a 16v.


----------



## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

Jeebus said:


> ??? It's still a 16v.


 and it makes me want to paint my car orange!! looking good as always man:thumbup:


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

i want that aluminum block... what kind of weight savings?


----------



## SAGT! (Apr 16, 2009)

Jeebus 
Depends on what car the motors going in. Some block off that front coolant passage. Mines going in a Rabbit so I had to make all my lines cause I don't have a heater core either but I'm still using the front one on the head. 

It's going into a Rabbit, Jeebus and I'm hoping to retain the heater. How would I route the coolant pipes, particularly the ones from the front of the head.


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

> Cast iron.


 not jeebus' block the SAGT posted


----------



## SAGT! (Apr 16, 2009)

CanadianCabby said:


> not jeebus' block the SAGT posted


 AKL engine code off a local 1.6 POLO


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

CanadianCabby said:


> not jeebus' block the SAGT posted


 Didnt even see that pic and had no clue VW ever cast a aluminum block. Pretty cool


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

SAGT! said:


> AKL engine code off a local 1.6 POLO


 What do you have it bored to? 
Can it handle a 82mm-83mm bore? 

chain driven oil pump like the 06A?


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

cant you get 1.8 open deck alu blocks in europe? would be better than the 1.6 i would imagine


----------



## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

didnt the 1.8L 20v NA engine in europe use a cast aluminum block


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

CanadianCabby said:


> didnt the 1.8L 20v NA engine in europe use a cast aluminum block


 the 2L 20V code ALT used an aluminum block.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Mines alive, tuning within the next few days.


----------



## SAGT! (Apr 16, 2009)

elRey said:


> What do you have it bored to?
> Can it handle a 82mm-83mm bore?
> 
> chain driven oil pump like the 06A?


82.5mm
Chain driven like 06A


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Hit the rollers with my new setup... tried to run 25psi and ended up lifting the head so I have to deal with that before getting back at it.

Anyways... not sure what the record is for this swap but here's where I am so far.


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

hey Jeebus, my buddy makes 350whp on a mustang dyno. around 500 crank hp, on a 9A block, in his rabbit. im sure your motor is capable of more, esp with the meth inj. and hes got some SDS stupid wasted spark crap goin on thats not helping him soo much.
p.s, he runs 12.0's all day long. :thumbup:


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Jeebus said:


> Hit the rollers with my new setup... tried to run 25psi and ended up lifting the head so I have to deal with that before getting back at it.


What hardware did you use?


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

i would asume hes using ARP head studs
depending on the size of the turbo also, 25 psi could be nothing or a sh!t load...


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

elRey said:


> What hardware did you use?


ARP


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Well I tore the head off just to make sure there were no other issues. It's all back together and the head studs are tq down super tight now. Ready for round 2.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Jeebus said:


> Well after a lot of figuring out I finally have my motor together... and actually in the car.


Looking sexy!



SAGT! said:


> It's going into a Rabbit, Jeebus and I'm hoping to retain the heater. How would I route the coolant pipes, particularly the ones from the front of the head.


You run it like normal. You need to get the thermostat bypass tube in there though.


Jeebus said:


> Well I tore the head off just to make sure there were no other issues. It's all back together and the head studs are tq down super tight now. Ready for round 2.


Let me know how it goes!


----------



## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

Jeebus said:


> Well I tore the head off just to make sure there were no other issues. It's all back together and the head studs are tq down super tight now. Ready for round 2.


Sounds like someone got over-anxious and didn't re-torque the ARP studs after a couple heat cycles. 

Another great thread Issam, I think you've almost convinced me to switch to an 06A block for my 8vT build. Only thing stopping me is I already bought a crank scraper for the ABA block, and the ABA block is already in the car (though I do have to re-ring it). Hmmmmmmm.......


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

84_GLI_coupe said:


> Sounds like someone got over-anxious and didn't re-torque the ARP studs after a couple heat cycles.
> 
> Another great thread Issam, I think you've almost convinced me to switch to an 06A block for my 8vT build. Only thing stopping me is I already bought a crank scraper for the ABA block, and the ABA block is already in the car (though I do have to re-ring it). Hmmmmmmm.......


These are undercut bolts and do not require to be re-torqued. I just used the tq specs from these bolts which was incorrect for this application.


----------



## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

In 10 pages, I'm sure someone has already mentioned this, but I'm not a fan of driving the WP using the timing belt.

The external WPs on PL/9A's even AEB 1.8T's:thumbup: have a ~100K life span. With an internal WP, you are changing them every ~65K or so when the TB is done. Most of the failures I've had on external pumps are gradual (i.e. pump starts to weep coolant a few weeks before it actually fails). Have seen/heard of a few disasters with the internal design WP.

I guess the compromise is worth it for some.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

When you have an external water pump pulley slip and ruin your entire motor... you'll change your mind.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Electron Man said:


> With an internal WP, you are changing them every ~65K or so when the TB is done.


Put over 100 on the metal units from Hepu. You got the plastic garbage?


----------



## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

Early plastic wasn't rated for the temperatures, hence all the issues. VW started using PPS plastic when it got cheaper in 04/05 or so, rated to 220°C continuous.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

84_GLI_coupe said:


> Early plastic wasn't rated for the temperatures, hence all the issues. VW started using PPS plastic when it got cheaper in 04/05 or so, rated to 220°C continuous.


 True but i still use the Hepu metal units. 
:thumbup:


----------



## Battleaxesatdawn (Apr 6, 2009)

This is an 8 valve. Posted in the forced induction forum 

TT266 Cam 
Ported head 
Ramhorn turbo manifold 
Holset Hx35 (this one shares the same dimensions as a t3/t4 50trim on the compressor) 
Snow Performance Stage 3 Water/Methanol System 

Full 3" Straight through exhaust 

Home Made long runner intake manifold 

25psi...on 93+W/M 

374whp 
367wtq 

RAI Motorsport Mustang Dyno 

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t=IMG_0815.mp4 


Will snap a pic of the graph and post in a lil bit... 

Quintin Callahan R.A.I. Motorsport 
Project Manager 
AIM: theqman74 
EMAIL: [email protected] 
CELL PHONE(call or text): 757-748-1329


----------



## 16v lover (Feb 17, 2007)

wow thats crazy an 8v that makes 374whp & 367wtq at 25psi. interesting to compare tho, another guy in this thread ran 25psi on this hybrid 16v and only made 358whp and 310wtq at the same boost level and comparable setup.


----------



## virgilio7 (Jan 15, 2008)

Issam Abed said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *duke_seb* »_for this swap you need 4 custom pieces... elrey and I can vouch for this
> 
> Only if you are putting it in a MKIV chassis.For a MKII you dont need those custom pieces.Only need to join the thermostat bypass hose to the middle of the 16V head.
> 
> ...


still have this arp studs? what are the specs?


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

Just to let you know if there are people who wanted to use the AEG block (the one without oil squiter) for not having to machined the 9A pistons, forget it, the piston in the number 4 cylinder does not clear the 60-2 tooth wheel.
I have try it.


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

I may have found a solution to the CPS with the mk4 injection.

I saw in the SSP233 that the ATU engine of the cabrio from 1999 to 2003 in Europe had the M5.9.2 and a distributor. Maybe this engine or another engine in europe had a rotor wheel with the same pattern as the AEG, and that directly fit on the 16v distributor shaft.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

yes we have 2 sets of ARP studs in stock.


----------



## Sosl0w (Aug 21, 2003)

Jeebus said:


> Well I tore the head off just to make sure there were no other issues. It's all back together and the head studs are tq down super tight now. Ready for round 2.


 What size turbo are you running?


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Sosl0w said:


> What size turbo are you running?


 GT3076r 

Have some new numbers... worked really great at low boost, but I'm having a flow/heat issue at high boost so I'm currently changing up a few things. 

300whp was at 14psi  
367whp was at 25psi.  I must add this graph is more gradual because we had the boost controller turned on to limit boost per RPM. The lower graph is more indicative of how it will be.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

just for 16v + mk4 block comparison's sake: 

15psi on E85 (new numbers soon)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Going to be updating this soon with a sick build


----------



## kewlbreze77 (Oct 11, 2009)

can't wait to see what you have up your sleeve.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

khemiicalz said:


> i also read trough a elrey's build thread, made 122hp (not sure if it was *whp* or at the crank) with a 16v head and a stock block with 9a internals, a 9a makes 134, and a aba/16v(abf) makes around 140ish iirc,
> 
> so this engine combo is stronger but has less hp?


I know this is a reply to an old question, but to clarify.... it was 123whp. So, it's on par with the other engines. There was a 16v Passat B3 all stock that dynoed the same day (right after me) that made 10whp less.


----------



## mad rallye (Apr 29, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> Going to be updating this soon with a sick build




Get it up DATED mate 


Nas


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Getting shirts printed


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

We will be building the Motor the weekend of the 15th of november.
Going to be crazy too!


----------



## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

Issam Abed said:


> We will be building the Motor the weekend of the 15th of november.
> Going to be crazy too!


and how did it go?


-Dave


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MrDave said:


> and how did it go?
> 
> 
> -Dave


Ran into a little hick up with the cylinder head
will update shortly.


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

please say you have a a cnc'd 16v head goin on it


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MK1 Rabbit GTI said:


> please say you have a a cnc'd 16v head goin on it


yes


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

... any flow numbers?


----------



## kewlbreze77 (Oct 11, 2009)

Issam or Elrey,

Do you know if these pistons will clear the oil squirters w/o modifaction?

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=9031DA&Nav=6&SubNav=62

or 

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=9032DA&Nav=6&SubNav=62

I was thinking about using the ABF pistons with an ABF exhaust camshaft and staying N/A.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

kewlbreze77 said:


> Issam or Elrey,
> 
> Do you know if these pistons will clear the oil squirters w/o modifaction?
> 
> ...


From the looks of the skirt I would say no. If you need the correct pistons let me know.

We also picked up an Aluminum block for a custom race engine build for a customer. Going to be alot of fun soon....just need to find the time to edit these images.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Going to be updating this soon.I promise...


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

i'd love to see that head all done out


----------



## npleshek (Feb 2, 2011)

Isaam, does this kit you are offering allow the SAI to function still?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

npleshek said:


> Isaam, does this kit you are offering allow the SAI to function still?


No
not sure why you would want that anyway


----------



## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Just read this from start to finish...

Nice work, Guys. Definitely something for me to consider after i get bored of my 1.9 KR. 


Where's the updates, Issam? I want pictures! :laugh:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Preen59 said:


> Where's the updates, Issam? I want pictures! :laugh:


Finishing up the all aluminum motor right now.
Waiting on the ITB's from TWM though.


----------



## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

Issam Abed said:


> Finishing up the all aluminum motor right now.
> Waiting on the ITB's from TWM though.



it's finished and built and you're posting pictures soon, right?

-Dave


----------



## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

For those of you who have built these, how are they holding up?


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

My new setup.. is only running 8.5psi because my EBC eff'd off on me the day of tuning. At 8.5psi I got 262whp on 91oct. I should see my goals of 400whp at 20psi in the next couple of weeks. 

I have done 367whp on a crappy version of this setup... (had a log manifold, and very small IC). Those have since been changed.

The motor. Intake and exhaust manifolds were built by me.


----------



## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

Nice work Jeebs, proper as usual. :thumbup:


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

Bumping this back up!

Just want to clarify, I read through the first 6 pages or so, I just want to double check if I read correctly.

I want to use one of the blocks listed on the first page (* AZG, AEG, AVH) with 9a rods and 9a JE's (setup for 8.5:1 in a 9a). If I use the 9a rods and pistons, with the crank from the mk4 bottom will that setup work out to the same comp ratio?

Also do any of those 3 not have crank trigger? :beer:


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

JE's need machining to fit with oil squirter's. I believe only the Wiseco's actually fit out of the box. 

My local shop has machined a couple sets of JE's down for me and it was only $100 for each set of 4. They came out awesome as well. 

As for any with no crank trigger.. not sure sorry... I do know some have oil squirters some don't. AZG does have oil squirters and trigger wheel.


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

Is that also true with stock 9a pistons, needing machining to clear the squirters?

and for reference I want to use the crank trigger so I just want to be sure they all have them so I can continue my shopping for parts


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> Is that also true with stock 9a pistons, needing machining to clear the squirters?


Yes


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

you can buy the pistons from Issam with the notch for the squiters :thumbup:


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

Already have pistons, and with the machine work I will still have paid less than 1/4 of new ones. 

Just need to clarify that I can use the mk4 8v crank with the 9a rods/pistons and have the same comp ratio and I can start finding turbo parts


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

if your using the 8v crank and block then your comp ratio wont change :thumbup:


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Jeebus said:


> JE's need machining to fit with oil squirter's. I believe only the Wiseco's actually fit out of the box.


Even Wiseco's need machining. Its a simple operation on a lathe to be quite honest but some engine builders prefer to just do it by hand.
Shipped out 5 kits on 14th of July. I know I need to upload the pics but I got married last week .....so that means holding off on any web work , product promotion.

All Aluminum 16V Turbo motor


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> Just need to clarify that I can use the mk4 8v crank with the 9a rods/pistons and have the same comp ratio and I can start finding turbo parts


Yes you can
Take a STOCK 9A piston and STOCK 2.0 8V piston (engine code does not matter), show them to a machinist and say you want the 9A pistons to have an oil squirter clearance the same as whatever sample you supply them.


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

Ina.... U do not need to machine wiseco pistons..... I'm running them in mine


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

INA said:


> Yes you can
> Take a STOCK 9A piston and STOCK 2.0 8V piston (engine code does not matter), show them to a machinist and say you want the 9A pistons to have an oil squirter clearance the same as whatever sample you supply them.


Actually found that the JE's I got are already setup for the oil squirters, even found a block so it's game on. :beer:

mucho gracias for the thread, stoked to have a nice crank trigger setup without having to use a tall block.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

> Actually found that the JE's I got are already setup for the oil squirters,


I bet the oil squirter's reliefs are cut into the wrong side. The last three sets I've seen were... makes no difference on the stock 16v as the JE piston's didn't require them as they were short enough in the 9a bottom end. However on the 06X setup they need to be there, and of course in the right location. lol


----------



## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

I'll def double check that, but they were setup for an ABA. I just also noticed that there is not reliefs for the valves so i'm wondering now if they will work...




























the original owner had these JE Pistons custom ordered for his 16v block using a 9A crank and 144mm x 20 mm rods for a 8.5:1 c/r. However I don't know what head that was suppose to be for...(notice how it says "jh" for the head description)


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

duke_seb said:


> Ina.... U do not need to machine wiseco pistons..... I'm running them in mine


What part # did you use for Wiseco? The last set I got needed the clearancing and infact I am pretty confident in saying that any set will need clearancing. It will be almost impossible for a 9A piston (OEM or aftermarket) to work right into an AZG block because the oil squirters are in complete different locations. If you are working with an AEG then of course none of the above applies.


----------



## blankblank (Oct 16, 2010)

Maybe someone in this thread can help. Can one use stock AEG pistons and rods MACHINED to clear the valves and deck the block to retain close to stock compression (or at least something good enough for NA) and than be able to stack head gasket for turbo setup?


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

blankblank said:


> Maybe someone in this thread can help. Can one use stock AEG pistons and rods MACHINED to clear the valves and deck the block to retain close to stock compression (or at least something good enough for NA) and than be able to stack head gasket for turbo setup?


Everything is wrong with that whole post

U need 16v pistons to run the set up. The tops of 16v pistons are totally different

If u go the 16v piston route u need to find a set of pistons and Ross that are in good shape.... It's hard

Then u have to machine them like I showed on my thread u already posted in make sure to remember the cutouts for the oil squiters

This setup is going to run u about 3000 depending on how cheap u source the parts

If u want to do boost.... Expect to triple that cost and don't stack ur head gasket... Get a set of wiseco pistons and a set of matching rods and go from there

If u want more info.... Read my build thread again .... It's a lot more work then u might think


----------



## blankblank (Oct 16, 2010)

Form my understanding you can't use the AGE pistons due to the valves hitting. I am a tool maker/machinist so i can do any modifications myself. What i am really asking is there any way to use stock rods and pistons and keep a close to stock compression as i don't want to run a turbo off the bat. I am trying to keep this as cheap as possible and want to go NA to start, and eventually get boosted. I am very aware of all the other modifications that are required and the money that it can cost to do this.

I assume no has tried as it wont work and best bet is to go get a set of 9a pistons and rods...which i am looking for


----------



## duke_seb (Jul 29, 2003)

The aeg pistons have a dome cut out of the top the 16v ones are flat with cuts for the intake valves

U can run 16v pistons and do boost a couple people are already doing it


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

blankblank said:


> I assume no has tried as it wont work and best bet is to go get a set of 9a pistons and rods...which i am looking for


AEG pistons are crap...I highly doubt they would last very long in a boosted application.

Hit 2 birds with 1 stone. Not only did I promise a 16V bottom end but also an aluminum one 
Shipping department sent 2 steel AZG/9A hybrids out last week (wish I grabbed photos of those for you all to oogle over). These will do for now:


















if you have time "like" our INA page and see what else we have in the works:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/INA-Engineering-Inc/294598024991?ref=ts

:thumbup:


----------



## Mk1Madness (Nov 8, 2009)

Liked:thumbup:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Mk1Madness said:


> Liked:thumbup:


Thanks:thumbup:


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

Very nice!
what did the alu. motor come out of?


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Last weekend I finally reached my goal in the bunny. 405whp and 305wtq at 20.7psi. For those that remember a page or two back I did 367whp at 25psi....so needless to say the new setup works way more efficiently as I'm making ~40 more hp with 5 less psi. 

I've now reached the limits of the head studs required for this swap, I'm now looking for alternatives to keep the damn head from lifting. :banghead: Once I do that it will be getting a race fuel and a bunch more boost. 










The blip in the center was timing and was cleaned out in the next pass.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Jeebus said:


> I've now reached the limits of the head studs required for this swap, I'm now looking for alternatives to keep the damn head from lifting. :banghead: Once I do that it will be getting a race fuel and a bunch more boost.


...on it:thumbup:


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

whats the limit on ARP studs? never thought about it before.
makes sense why my buddy keeps poping heads past 550whp :screwy:


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

MK1 Rabbit GTI said:


> whats the limit on ARP studs? never thought about it before.
> makes sense why my buddy keeps poping heads past 550whp :screwy:


on what set up?


----------



## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

turbo 16v. 9a... not 06a.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

For those building this setup, I have a brand new in the box set of ARP head studs required for this setup for sale. I had ordered another set which arrived yesterday, but I've decided to go another route with mine. 

$150


----------



## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Issam Abed said:


> AEG pistons are crap...I highly doubt they would last very long in a boosted application.
> 
> Hit 2 birds with 1 stone. Not only did I promise a 16V bottom end but also an aluminum one
> Shipping department sent 2 steel AZG/9A hybrids out last week (wish I grabbed photos of those for you all to oogle over). These will do for now:
> ...


Lovely. Just lovely.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

:heart:


----------



## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

Jolf3 said:


> Just to let you know if there are people who wanted to use the AEG block (the one without oil squiter) for not having to machined the 9A pistons, forget it, the piston in the number 4 cylinder does not clear the 60-2 tooth wheel.
> I have try it.
> 
> planned on using aeg, can anyone else verify. what can i do to make my 9a pistons not hit?


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

jjensen said:


> planned on using aeg, can anyone else verify. what can i do to make my 9a pistons not hit?


Take an AEG piston with you to a machine shop and show them your 9A pistons. They should be able to figure out the rest.


----------



## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

i guess my real question is will the pistons in your kit clear?


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

jjensen said:


> i guess my real question is will the pistons in your kit clear?


If you order the pistons from us they will have the correct clearance for 06A oil squirters.

:thumbup:


----------



## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

they will work for an aeg block then correct?


----------



## Mk1Madness (Nov 8, 2009)

What is the aluminum VW block?


----------



## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

Might have missed this but.....

With a 16v head, will you get low compression just like using an ABA block? Gonna be building a 16vT and this info on this block caught my eye.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

jjensen said:


> they will work for an aeg block then correct?


yes.


Turbo3 said:


> Might have missed this but.....
> 
> With a 16v head, will you get low compression just like using an ABA block? Gonna be building a 16vT and this info on this block caught my eye.


both the 9A and the AZG/AEG have a 220mm deck height
whatever CR you had in your 9A motor you will have in your AZG.


----------



## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

Issam Abed said:


> yes.
> 
> both the 9A and the AZG/AEG have a 220mm deck height
> whatever CR you had in your 9A motor you will have in your AZG.


That's with the stock AZG/AEG pistons too right?


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Turbo3 said:


> That's with the stock AZG/AEG pistons too right?


No
You are not using your AZG/AEG pistons. They are paperweights at this point.


----------



## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

I may have not been clear on my question..

If i bolt my 16 head on this block with stock internals, will i have a low (lower) compression motor?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Turbo3 said:


> I may have not been clear on my question..
> 
> If i bolt my 16 head on this block with stock internals, will i have a low (lower) compression motor?


Yes but I dont see why you would do this considering AZG stock pistons are not very robust. Just get the right pistons...


----------



## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

Issam Abed said:


> Yes but I dont see why you would do this considering AZG stock pistons are not very robust. Just get the right pistons...


That's what I was wondering too, as how strong the stock internals are. I'm building a boosted motor and its gonna be on MS. This is gonna be my first time messin with standalone and I'm gonna be tuning it myself. So I wanted to run the stock internals just in case I do something wrong and damage the bottom end. I don't wanna damage the good stuff


----------



## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

im intrested in running a cam in this setup as well. probley just the abf cams from bbm. is there any worry of clearance issues? thanks for you help


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

jjensen said:


> im intrested in running a cam in this setup as well. probley just the abf cams from bbm. is there any worry of clearance issues? thanks for you help


Realistically speaking the only thing you are changing is the block . Internally everything is almost identical so if you found cams that would work with 9A pistons in a 9A block then they would also work with 9A pistons in an AZG block.:thumbup:


----------



## jjensen (Jun 26, 2009)

will running an aeg block be terrible though due to lack of oil squirters? ive seen it posted on here that the aeg will not be a good choice for a daily driver type engine.


----------



## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

jjensen said:


> will running an aeg block be terrible though due to lack of oil squirters? ive seen it posted on here that the aeg will not be a good choice for a daily driver type engine.


VW wouldn't have put it out if it was a bad choice for a daily


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

jjensen said:


> will running an aeg block be terrible though due to lack of oil squirters? ive seen it posted on here that the aeg will not be a good choice for a daily driver type engine.


You do not *need* oil squirters all though it is recommended. If it that much of an issue any machine shop can install them for around $100 or so.
We had around 15 AEG blocks that had no oil squirters or M14 coolant feed for a turbocharger and we just had them converted.Not that difficult to do.


----------



## my02VR6 (Jan 6, 2005)

Issam Abed said:


> I'm in the process of researching options for my 90.5 16v GLI. Either the block is cracked or the head gasket is done, i'm getting coolant mixed with oil. That's not the question though. What I want to know is, will this block mount in all the same spots as the original motor? And what will I have to do for engine management?


 Copied from my pm...


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

my02VR6 said:


> Copied from my pm...


 Since I have an AZG in my 90 jetta, I'd say yes. 06x will mount into a mk2.


----------



## my02VR6 (Jan 6, 2005)

Thanks, thats what I was hoping for. I wrote that before reading the whole thread. Your build sounds very nice. 
My goal is to stay as close to stock as possible, but with this block. Reading through this, it seems I should just buy the kit and source my own AZG and rebuild my head. Everything else sounds like it remains stock. 

Is there a serp kit for a/c, p/s and alternator? 

And just to make sure, I can still use my 2y, right? Besides this kit and a block, is there anything else I'll need for a 90 GLI install?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

my02VR6 said:


> Is there a serp kit for a/c, p/s and alternator?
> 
> And just to make sure, I can still use my 2y, right? Besides this kit and a block, is there anything else I'll need for a 90 GLI install?


 Use the AZG serpentine belt set up. It will have everything you need. 
You can use the 2Y yes as that will bolt up to the block. Anything else you need? Just the pistons and a rebuild kit.:thumbup:


----------



## v86sp (Mar 3, 2008)

Hi,

Loking to build a 2.1L been looking at a few options and since I'm running an 02J regardless of engine This seems like a semi reasonable alreative to the ABA/a6 setup I had previously considered.

Here's are a few questions that have not be answered.
1) MK4 tdi is 236mm deck height correct?
2) what size head blots does it use I know they are larger are they m12?
3) With the ALH crank what toner ring should be used (ALH or BEW)?

for reference this is what I have looked into on my math.
using a 236mm deck height block with 95.5mm crank and 159mm rods and 9A pistons. Now before anyone goes screaming it works.

9a pistons compression height is 29.6mm. The required compression hieght for same cr in my setup would need to be 29.25, a difference of .35mm or .0138". Same as decking a block the pistons would have more protrusion. This will reduce quish and increase CR. should yield about a static CR of 11.6-8 cr depending on MK4 HG thickness.

My question is what belt do you use with the taller deck hieght? and are there any other differences besides the oil filter bracket between an MK4 gas and TDi block?

TIA


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

v86sp said:


> Here's are a few questions that have not be answered.
> 1) MK4 tdi is 236mm deck height correct?
> 2) what size head blots does it use I know they are larger are they m12?
> 3) With the ALH crank what toner ring should be used (ALH or BEW)?
> ...


I will answer this as best as I can:


Correct
M12 x 1.75 - you wont find Head bolts in this length for use with a 16V head. You will find studs but helicoiling and stepping down to a more common size (M11) might be a better choice.
Neither... you can use ABA if you wish.
Problem with 9A pistons on ABA rods is you will need to rebush the rods from 21mm pin to 20mm pin.
You will need to figure out the timing belt on your own , as well as the water pump and deck of the block.
Very big difference between the 2. If you are using an ALH block it will be cheaper for you to use a remote oil filter than trying to adapt another oil filter housing.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Issam, is an timing belt idler roller including in your kit to increase crank gear wrap? Is it necessary? 

Thanks,
Rey


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

elRey said:


> Issam, is an timing belt idler roller including in your kit to increase crank gear wrap? Is it necessary?
> 
> Thanks,
> Rey


Rey,
We have one where the OEM 1.8T unit but you can also include one @ the upper right hand corner of the block (where a MKIV engine mount tab once was).


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Guys,
please ask questions in the thread. Sending me a PM to privately address questions which have been asked in this thread is sellfish. Let others learn and you can as well.
Thanks:thumbup:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Kris Clewell shows off his new 06A-16V Motor.



Digital K. said:


> short block showed up from issam at INA engineering on friday. really impressed with everything. I'm not sure what it's going to make for power. I have high hopes though. Any armchair speculation is welcome....Here is the build for the block:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## skidplate (May 4, 2004)

Mk1Madness said:


> What is the aluminum VW block?


 AXW is one of the codes. From what I understand, there are two aluminum block codes. I haven't figured the other one out yet. :beer:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

skidplate said:


> AXW is one of the codes. From what I understand, there are two aluminum block codes. I haven't figured the other one out yet. :beer:


 AKL


----------



## skidplate (May 4, 2004)

Issam Abed said:


> AKL


 :thumbup:


----------



## 87wolfsburg (Apr 29, 2004)

okay. a hypothetical situation here

AWM block - bored to max 83mm
- mk4 aeg 92.8mm stroke crank
= 2.0L right

now . . . . . thing is, to run a 16v head or not. as far as flow comparrison to a 20v head, lets just say an aeb head. either one will be ported and polished. but which one flows better at its max?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

87wolfsburg said:


> okay. a hypothetical situation here
> 
> AWM block - bored to max 83mm
> - mk4 aeg 92.8mm stroke crank
> ...


The newer the head the better the flow but lets not turn this into a 20V vs 16V head. This set up is for someone who has a 16V engine currently (9A | PL | KR | 6A | ABF | etc) and is looking to move past old school external water pump / IM Shaft to Internal water pump no IM Shaft.:thumbup:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

And another one lives:thumbup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2il_FSRok54


----------



## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

Issam Abed said:


> This set up is for someone who has a 16V engine currently (9A | PL | KR | 6A | ABF | etc) and is looking to move past old school external water pump / IM Shaft to Internal water pump no IM Shaft.:thumbup:


I was showed this thread... I feel like it could do dangerous things to me. I have a 16v 9A Jetta, and an ABA Cabrio. I have thought, for my own reasons, of installing one of these "06x" blocks into the Cabrio, possibly with the 16v head, just for fun. Now you've gone and got me thinking, that it is really easy. From my quick rundown of what is compatible, I "should' be able to get an AEG block, and swap the 16v head and 9A internals into it? And then run it on chipped Motronic from the Cabrio. Hmm... Lots of reading will take place shortly :thumbup:


----------



## NeedBo0st (Aug 26, 2011)

so im looking at doing something not very many people have done, looking at 16v head onto AVH w/ITB setup any recommendations on getting this thing up and running as far as fuel management goes? Going into Mk4.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

NeedBo0st said:


> so im looking at doing something not very many people have done, looking at 16v head onto AVH w/ITB setup any recommendations on getting this thing up and running as far as fuel management goes? Going into Mk4.


AVH should be the same as AZG.
Look above at what Kris has done and what chassis is this going into?


----------



## NeedBo0st (Aug 26, 2011)

A4 mkiV golf


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

NeedBo0st said:


> A4 mkiV golf


I would start by using a 1.8T harness & ECU and grafting it to suite. You will need to convert the distributor to a 1 window hall but at least you have access to Maestro.

Enjoy the video:


----------



## boost is better (May 26, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> I would start by using a 1.8T harness & ECU and grafting it to suite. You will need to convert the distributor to a 1 window hall but at least you have access to Maestro.
> 
> Enjoy the video:


Is this josh's new beast?


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> I would start by using a 1.8T harness & ECU and grafting it to suite. You will need to convert the distributor to a 1 window hall but at least you have access to Maestro.
> 
> Enjoy the video:


More!!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

ziggirocco said:


> More!!


We have an entire album on our FB page.:thumbup:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Going to be devoting alot of time to a new project. a 16V G60 with a twist. No more v-belt pulleys


----------



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

always fun to see my 8v build used for comparison (couple pages back)...guess i did something right  

Anyway. As Issam noted...best course of action, 1.8t ecu and harness and Maestro. Thats what i ran the 8v on. Worked great. 

New cam and retune after that dyno easily net 430whp at same boost.


----------



## 71camaro (Apr 20, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Going to be devoting alot of time to a new project. a 16V G60 with a twist. No more v-belt pulleys


 Using the mk4 block? If so I'm interested since I'm building a setup with the new BBM charger. Trying to have as minimal a bay as possible though, so internal water pump block, coil pack engine may be something I want.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

71camaro said:


> Using the mk4 block? If so I'm interested since I'm building a setup with the new BBM charger. Trying to have as minimal a bay as possible though, so internal water pump block, coil pack engine may be something I want.


 Using an ALH diesel block & HKS supercharger. Its been a project I have wanted to do for a while. Now all I need to do is finish off the G60 throttle body w/TPS


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

Ok, couple questions after reading all 14 pages... 

This is for a MK3 OBD2 NA. 

I have a partially assembled ABA/16 bottom end, when I noticed the mounts on the AEG lined up, which lead me to this thread. 

Issam, you mentioned a part number for the timing belt. but never posted it. How many teeth is it? 

Mention was made of a 1.8t tensioner that would work, but no one ever followed up on that either. 

Did anyone try the M20 head bolts? They also don't appear to have washers, so would you install them? Are they stretch bolts, like factory VW? 

I am still debating between the ABA and AZG... Initially the build will be cheap, using stock 9a pistons, but I want to use the ALH TDI crank I have with 83.5 pistons for an NA build. I'm assuming that since I'm sticking to NA, the longer rods in the ABA don't have a major impact on how much power I can run (doubt I'd ever see more than 175WHP with my conservative nature). 

But the shorter deck height would also give me a little more hood clearance if I made my own manifold, correct? 

And serpentine setup... Can I just use the AZH bracket with the MK3 alternator, A/C and power steering?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

notso2slo said:


> This is for a MK3 OBD2 NA.
> 1. I have a partially assembled ABA/16 bottom end, when I noticed the mounts on the AEG lined up, which lead me to this thread.
> 2. Issam, you mentioned a part number for the timing belt. but never posted it. How many teeth is it?
> 3. Mention was made of a 1.8t tensioner that would work, but no one ever followed up on that either.
> ...



Yes the ABA motor mount bracket bolts to the rear for the AEG mount. You can thank the Seat Ibiza for that. 

Right in the first post. Lexus IS300 or Toyora 2JZ-GE (the Supra belt) 

Just use the 9A tensioner with the 6mm spacer we sell 

Nope . I just use the ARP's. No point trying to find something OEM when most of the guys building these are building them for performance. 

ok 

Sure 

AZH bracket yes , MKIII Alternator yes , MKIII A/C no , MKIII power steering yes but you need the AZH p/s pulley 

 

HTH


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Our new crank sprocket, oil oump, pump chain, chain tensioner came in today for my 06X-16V build. Custom 12.5:1 pistons with crown and skirt coatings are done and now just a matter of boring the block and getting rods from Issam. A new trigger wheel and pump drive gear are ordered along with a new bolt for the crank sprocket. Looking forward to the build.


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

How do I make the A/C work? Use the MK4 pulley? I also have a mill and machining skills if I need to fab up something.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

rhussjr said:


> Our new crank sprocket, oil oump, pump chain, chain tensioner came in today for my 06X-16V build. Custom 12.5:1 pistons with crown and skirt coatings are done and now just a matter of boring the block and getting rods from Issam. A new trigger wheel and pump drive gear are ordered along with a new bolt for the crank sprocket. Looking forward to the build.


 :thumbup: 


notso2slo said:


> How do I make the A/C work? Use the MK4 pulley? I also have a mill and machining skills if I need to fab up something.


 Use a MKIV A/C compressor.:thumbup:


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

The hoses have the same ends? Or do you have to make custom hoses?


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

And which crank tone ring do you use? Does it have to be the MK3, or does the AZG work?


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

I personally, will retain the stock FSI trigger wheel, though it will not get used initially, but hopefully will be of use for a crank fired ignition.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

notso2slo said:


> The hoses have the same ends? Or do you have to make custom hoses?


You will have to make custom hoses as the MKIII A/C is in a different location.


notso2slo said:


> And which crank tone ring do you use? Does it have to be the MK3, or does the AZG work?


AZG works fine. Use the VR sensor associated with the crankshaft.
If you are using MKIV Crank then use MKIV impulse sensor (VR Sensor).


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Picked up a new trigger wheel, attaching bolts, crank mounted oil pump drive gear and a new crank gear bolt from the dealer today for my 06X 16V build.


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

12.5:1 Forged & Coated goodness.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

rhussjr said:


> 12.5:1 Forged & Coated goodness.
> 
> http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/560815_4256107521486_1858288825_n.jpg


squirter clearance? NA application only? Or OK for FI also? Looks pretty :thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

The pistons are JE FSR forgings, so no oil squirter notches on these. They are perfect for most all applications, other than the compression [12.5:1 is a bit high for FI - forced induction I assume]. They will be used with larger cams and 45 DCOE carbs. If things progress, I hope to have the motor in the car by SOWO. It is a slow build anyway, just gathering parts at the moment. The ones that I installed in the turbo motor have notches but are standard forgnings.


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Check list so far for the build

New 06A 2.0 Block
New 1.8 16V head
2.0 FSI forged crankshaft
DM Forged Rods
JE 12.5:1 FSR Pistons
Rod & main bearings
OEM Hybrid oil pan
Oil pump, chain, tensioner
Gaskets & seals

Waiting on ARP hardware and getting ready to order 60-2 ignition system, Timing belt and a few other pieces.


----------



## 16v po boy (Oct 27, 2001)

:banghead: why must i hate $ so much. stoopid lil 8v digifant runs great, but i cant resist this swap with a beetle parts car and a mk2 gli parts car laying around.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

rhussjr said:


> Check list so far for the build
> 
> New 06A 2.0 Block
> New 1.8 16V head
> ...


:thumbup:


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

For the few folks that have actually ventured down this path... here's some motivation. 

Hit the dyno the other day to turn the boost up a bit, shooting for a 10 second pass this year at the track. 

On the hottest day of the year here I managed to crack my 500whp cherry. 










Here's a couple videos of a couple pulls. 

500whp Pull





A couple different angles... these would be in the mid 400's


----------



## '88Jetta16v (Sep 5, 2005)

That's just plain terrific. Great work! 

Better fix your signature!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Gentlemen,
I am doing a very small run of brackets that will allow people to use either a G60 or Rotrex where an alternator would once sit on the MKIV 2.0 8V accessory bracket and relocate the alternator to the rear of the cylinder head similar to how VWMS did it with the 16V G60. Would anyone be interested in this?


----------



## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

how small is the run of parts?
and any range of pricing? of course depending on the nuber of interested people.


----------



## einvolk (Feb 20, 2009)

Tagged for future use :thumbup:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

134hpvw said:


> how small is the run of parts?
> and any range of pricing? of course depending on the nuber of interested people.


5 or so. More people the easier it gets.


----------



## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

I will keep an eye on this one opcorn:


----------



## Sead (Sep 3, 2002)

Is there an all steel oilpan option for the 06X block?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Sead said:


> Is there an all steel oilpan option for the 06X block?


yes in both baffled and none baffled format:thumbup:


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

What do you do for timing covers? Will the 9a head timing cover match up with the 06a bottom end? Do you just ignore the hole from the MK4 mount?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

notso2slo said:


> What do you do for timing covers? Will the 9a head timing cover match up with the 06a bottom end? Do you just ignore the hole from the MK4 mount?


All 06A motor timing covers are split into 3 parts. The lower portion that goes behind the accessory belt pulley , the middle portion that either has the cut outs for the MK4 mounts or not and the upper portion that encloses the timing belt camshaft pulley.
Use the lower portion , find an Audi A4 middler and modify an AZG 2.0 8V unit to work. You can "graft" a 16V and 8V head together but it will take some plastic welding and alot of time to get done properly.
HTH


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

Issam, I have a brand new 2L 8V MK4, just buy from the VW factory in Puebla Mexico, What need for suit the 16V engine in a MK1?

I have in mint put some webers in it.

Excuse my poor English.


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

A engine brand new I mean.

Enviado desde mi LG-P714 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

CLestat said:


> Issam, I have a brand new 2L 8V MK4, just buy from the VW factory in Puebla Mexico, What need for suit the 16V engine in a MK1?
> 
> I have in mint put some webers in it.
> 
> Excuse my poor English.


Your English is fine and if not send over a PM so I can brush up on my Spanish 
If you have a MK1 then all you need is the 06A to MK1 engine mount bracket , the head studs and 9A 16V pistons. 
Send over an email if you need anymore help
Issam


----------



## scirocconaut (Oct 7, 2011)

2 years ago I was building one of these 16v aeg hybrids 

I asked your advice on compression ratios and if it would work or not 
I didn't get much besides ignored 

Now I see you willing to help for €€€


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

scirocconaut said:


> 2 years ago I was building one of these 16v aeg hybrids
> 
> I asked your advice on compression ratios and if it would work or not
> I didn't get much besides ignored
> ...


This thread has been active since 2009 (4 years ago). I recall you asking for advice privately to which I politely asked if you could ask these questions in the thread. You were never ignored , you were simply directed to the thread you are now posting in or told to send an email (I dislike vwvortex PM's). If you went back and read the responses you would see I try my absolute best to answer any and all questions in the best way I know how. 
HTH


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

The FSI pistons will fit for this convertion? I have a FSI engine from my old Leon FR FSI.

Or can use the whole FSI Engine for this project?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

CLestat said:


> The FSI pistons will fit for this convertion? I have a FSI engine from my old Leon FR FSI.
> 
> Or can use the whole FSI Engine for this project?


You will need to modify the exhaust valve cut outs in the dome of the piston to reflect that of the 6A/9A/PL/KR/ABF valves as the angles between the 2 are different. Otherwise yes.


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Got in a box of goodies from INA this week with more on the way. A new set of DM Forge rods, ARP studs and bolts, timing belt, roller bearing and the spacer and hardware for timing belt tensioner. After SOWO, I will start machining on the new block and get things moving forward on my build. Thanks Issam :thumbup:


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

rhussjr said:


> Got in a box of goodies from INA this week with more on the way. A new set of DM Forge rods, ARP studs and bolts, timing belt, roller bearing and the spacer and hardware for timing belt tensioner. After SOWO, I will start machining on the new block and get things moving forward on my build. Thanks Issam :thumbup:


Curious, is this for a NA or Turbo application?


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

This is a NA build. It will be a 2008cc 12.5:1 16V running a 1.8 head with Supertech valve train. Pistons are custom JEs with coated skirts and crowns, rods are I-beam DM Forge. Crank will be an FSI unit, coming in the next shipment from Issam. All ARP hardware and so on. Plans were to run standalone but it isn't finalized as I may stick with CIS-E Motronic for a while then opt for ITBs. It will be going down in my 92 GLI.


----------



## eazydaz (Apr 19, 2010)

Is possible setup 06A block from 1,8T 20V AUQ 132kw(stock pistons and rods) + 16V head from ABF 110kw engine?


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

eazydaz said:


> Is possible setup 06A block from 1,8T 20V AUQ 132kw(stock pistons and rods) + 16V head from ABF 110kw engine?


You require 16v pistons to match the 16v head.


----------



## eazydaz (Apr 19, 2010)

So 06A block from 20V engine,but with pistons from 16V engine? from which 16V engine? KR,PL,9A,ABF ?? Or aftermarket forged pistons? And rods?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

eazydaz said:


> So 06A block from 20V engine,but with pistons from 16V engine? from which 16V engine? KR,PL,9A,ABF ?? Or aftermarket forged pistons? And rods?


If you are staying N/A, KR or PL unless you bore and stroke it to 2L then you would need 9A pistons.


----------



## eazydaz (Apr 19, 2010)

I want 16V turbo with 06A block,is it possible? Please write me parts which I will needed,power 400-500hp,I prefer aftermarket forged pistons and rods.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Ok, order them for whatever bore and stroke you are using. If staying 1.8 order PL stuff, if going to 2L order 9A stuff.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

eazydaz said:


> I want 16V turbo with 06A block,is it possible? Please write me parts which I will needed,power 400-500hp,I prefer aftermarket forged pistons and rods.


Definitely possible with the right gear, check my sig.


----------



## eazydaz (Apr 19, 2010)

so, when I use serial 06A block from AUQ 1,8 20VT, then I use forged pistons and rods for PL engine? Head from PL will be sitting plug n play on 06A block without any modifications?

And what headgasket I use? And timing belt kit?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

eazydaz said:


> so, when I use serial 06A block from AUQ 1,8 20VT, then I use forged pistons and rods for PL engine? Head from PL will be sitting plug n play on 06A block without any modifications?
> 
> And what headgasket I use? And timing belt kit?


Not sure why you would stay with a 86.4mm stroke crank when 92.8mm units are readily available but whatever the case:
- Forged rods = 144/20 for PL or 9A are the same.
- Pistons = JE makes an off the shelf unit for the PL motors that will work for you. Contact rhussjr above for pistons.
- Head gasket - use the 2.0 8V AZG unit to block off the rear oil return ports.
- Timing belt - Toyota 2JZ unit.


----------



## '88Jetta16v (Sep 5, 2005)

Issam Abed said:


> - Head gasket - use the 2.0 8V AZG unit to block off the rear oil return ports.


Curious as to the advantage of blocking of the rear oil return ports. Could you please explain?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

'88Jetta16v said:


> Curious as to the advantage of blocking of the rear oil return ports. Could you please explain?


The head only has two whereas the block has five.


----------



## '88Jetta16v (Sep 5, 2005)

vwpat said:


> The head only has two whereas the block has five.


Interesting, so the AZG headgasket blocks the three return holes in the block that don't match up with the 16v head.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

'88Jetta16v said:


> Interesting, so the AZG headgasket blocks the three return holes in the block that don't match up with the 16v head.


correct, they are just drains so no pressure. Really just spray, if that, would make it up to the gasket.


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

*another 06x hopeful*

Howdee , I've picked up an ALT from an Audi , I already have an ABF with lightweight lifters and Schrick cams , for my mk1/A1 . So hoping to marry the ABF head and ALT block . Will the ABF rods and pistons work? Well , tbh , I won't be using the stock ABF pistons , as I want to increase the compression , but can I order forged ABF pistons , on my ABF rods , in the ALT block and using the ALT crank? The ALT has the big clumsy oil pump and balancer shaft assembly , I assume I can just swap that out for a 1.8t assembly? 

Many thanks in advance , this hybrid is pretty much unheard of over here in (very) Western Europe.


----------



## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

ABF rods and pistons will not work in 06A blocks


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

suffocatemymind said:


> ABF rods and pistons will not work in 06A blocks


ok , just curious , but why not?


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

The ABF rod length is 159 mm (for use in a 236mm deck height block) and the standard rod length for a 220mm deck height block is 144mm. If you are using a 76.8 mm crankshaft stroke then they would possibly work. Anything over that stroke will push the pistons out of the top of the block.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

suffocatemymind said:


> ABF rods and pistons will not work in 06A blocks


I could not verify if it is 220mm but it is an O6B block and I believe all of them were 220mm. You would need 9A spec pistons and rods. I came across this build. 
http://www.clubgti.com/showthread.php?257846-2-0-NA-Audi-Sport-20V-OEM


----------



## suffocatemymind (Dec 10, 2007)

ABF rods are just like ABA rods IIRC, which are not 144mm. The ABF pistons might work with 144mm rods, but that depends on the wrist pin diameter, piston shape/size, etc.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Yes, 159 mm with a 21 mm pin. ABF pistons would provide a slightly higher compression ratio than 9A pistons because of their larger compression height if you re-size the rod bushing to 21 mm.


----------



## My Big (Dec 26, 2010)

Have never heard of this, ever.. Never ever heard of a 16v Mk4. 
I kinda wish I did.. I went 16v, but I used a obd1 ABA block that I had rebuilt, with BBM "ABF" pistons for 10.5:1 compression.
For my cylinder head I used a 1.8 16v head from a Scirocco. Freshly rebuilt, of course. 276 cams, but looking to go down to 268's for more streetability, since it's a daily. I also used a Passat 2.0 intake manifold so I could use a MK3 airbox because cone filters are silly in my opinion..
I bought probably about 80% of the BBM ABA/16v kit, I use TT plug wires and TT software.
Honestly I love it, compared to the stock 8v, it's amazing. I used to shift the stock bolt on 8v around like.. 2500-3000 rpm MAX in town. Now I have to shift at like 4000 rpms. But when I floor it and I hear all 16 valves working, it's all worth it! I put down 150whp with my set up. Very happy with that number.

Anyone who is considering 8v to 16v swap, do it! Worth every penny.


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

cheers guys , The pistons woudn't really be a problem as I'd be getting a set of Wiseco or similar.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

RedLexus said:


> Howdee , I've picked up an ALT from an Audi , I already have an ABF with lightweight lifters and Schrick cams , for my mk1/A1 . So hoping to marry the ABF head and ALT block . Will the ABF rods and pistons work? Well , tbh , I won't be using the stock ABF pistons , as I want to increase the compression , but can I order forged ABF pistons , on my ABF rods , in the ALT block and using the ALT crank? The ALT has the big clumsy oil pump and balancer shaft assembly , I assume I can just swap that out for a 1.8t assembly?
> 
> Many thanks in advance , this hybrid is pretty much unheard of over here in (very) Western Europe.



ABF rods will not work as mentioned above . 
ABF Pistons will work so long as you get 144/21mm rods but then your pistons will not yield the same CR you had on the stock ABF
If you are using the ALT block and staying with the stock 92.8mm stroke crankshaft then it is best to source 9A components. So whatever you are ordering piston/rod wise , order for a 9A motor.
Yes swap it out for a 1.8T but then you will need to figure out the oil filter housing as you no longer have a high pressure return in the block (it is capped off when you tapp it for the rear oil pump securing bolt)

Talk to Rhussjr if you need custom JE's. He has been doing it for the last 12 odd years or so.


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

appreciate your advice , Issam .


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> ABF rods will not work as mentioned above .
> ABF Pistons will work so long as you get 144/21mm rods but then your pistons will not yield the same CR you had on the stock ABF
> If you are using the ALT block and staying with the stock 92.8mm stroke crankshaft then it is best to source 9A components. So whatever you are ordering piston/rod wise , order for a 9A motor.
> Yes swap it out for a 1.8T but then you will need to figure out the oil filter housing as you no longer have a high pressure return in the block (it is capped off when you tapp it for the rear oil pump securing bolt)
> ...


Using ABF pistons and 144 rods, what CR will have the engine?

The head stuts from ARP. I need buy the kit for the 8V or the 16V?

Excuse my English.

Enviado desde mi LG-P714 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

ABF pistons on rebushed 144 rods would be above deck, unless you offset bushing the rods which is tricky. Head studs would be for a 16V head if using a 16V head, Issam had those.


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

My problem is...

Why use a 750 usd JE pistons in a build for a 140 hp engine... I use those for my Leon FSI 3076, but fot a na engine is so much money.

Enviado desde mi LG-P714 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

If you are paying $750 for a set of pistons, you are buying them from the wrong source.


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

Show me you options please. 

Enviado desde mi LG-P714 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Message me if you are interested.


----------



## CLestat (Nov 15, 2007)

I can't. Don't know why. An error apears only for send a MP to you

Enviado desde mi LG-P714 mediante Tapatalk


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Received the one message, but it may be that your inbox and outbox are full.


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

Another silly question
What do you need to do to make all the cooling fit when you put the 06x block in a mk2 16v? My friend has a worn out block, and it seems like this would be the cheaper, more reliable replacement than the original 9a bottom end, I'm just worried about all the coolant hoses and oil cooler lines..


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

The upper hose remains stock Mk2. The lower hose is the only real issue, but can be resolved by fabricating one from the stock lower and another 1-1/4" ID hose and a sleeve.


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

And the crankcase breather? Anything you need to do with that?

Also, it turns out my friend wants to keep his AC... I think that might make this swap a lot more expensive, unless someone has a simple solution?


----------



## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

Turns out the head bolts from the BMW M20 are too short. Only about 8mm of thread engagement once you put a washer on top. 
I followed the VW torque procedure (more than the BMW torque) and they started to snap. Ooops.

Thanks to Issam for the ARP studs.

-Dave


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

notso2slo said:


> And the crankcase breather? Anything you need to do with that?
> 
> Also, it turns out my friend wants to keep his AC... I think that might make this swap a lot more expensive, unless someone has a simple solution?


06A blocks have the crank breather that can be adapter very easily to existing 16V hoses with modifications.


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

Issam Abed said:


> [*
> Yes swap it out for a 1.8T but then you will need to figure out the oil filter housing as you no longer have a high pressure return in the block (it is capped off when you tapp it for the rear oil pump securing bolt)
> )


How about the 2.0 oil pump , with the balancer shaft assy removed then?


----------



## notso2slo (May 1, 2006)

Anybody care about AC? Any experience keeping it in a MK2?


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

The last piece of the puzzle for my 06X build came in last week from INA. The new FSI crankshaft and trigger wheel. Now I have everything to build a completely brand new (100%) 06X 16V.


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

*boring the 06a?*

can these ally blocked motors be re-bored without specialist re-linering?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

RedLexus said:


> can these ally blocked motors be re-bored without specialist re-linering?


The Aluminum blocks require pistons to have the Mahle prioreitary Grafal coating. Unfortunately a custom set of Mahle pistons will run you $1200-$1400USD+ which is why every Aluminum block we did , we used Steel sleeves (so sleeved the block) and custom JE pistons.
If you are going to start with an Alloy block , don't use the open deck units. The cost of custom Darton Sleeves outweight the cost of sourcing a closed deck unit.


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

which cars had closed decks?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

RedLexus said:


> which cars had closed decks?


MKV 2.0 FSI (non turbo)


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

Hmmmm , if I could find one of those here, I'd use the whole engine!


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

*Dowels*

Any of you guys have issues with the locating dowels between head and block? I stripped my ABF , and was comparing the bits with my ALT 06x block , and 1 of the locating dowels is slightly off . maybe 4-5mm away from where I need it to be .


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

RedLexus said:


> Any of you guys have issues with the locating dowels between head and block? I stripped my ABF , and was comparing the bits with my ALT 06x block , and 1 of the locating dowels is slightly off . maybe 4-5mm away from where I need it to be .


Drill the cylinder head since the dowel pin is the align the head gasket.


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

ThAnks Issam. I want a set of those Arp studs, do I ring or how can I order ?


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

NLA


----------



## RedLexus (Nov 16, 2005)

*Thank you Rhuss*

I would like to say a huge public thank you to RhussJr , for putting up with all my haggling , stupidity , inane questions and rambling phone calls , and for sending me some gorgeous pistons and other special ingredients to put my 06b-16v hybrid together . Top guy , a total gentleman , and very very fair prices. And bear in mind he had to send the parts over 3500 miles! Hope to deal with you again RhussJr . :thumbup::biggrinsanta:


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

RedLexus said:


> I would like to say a huge public thank you to RhussJr , for putting up with all my haggling , stupidity , inane questions and rambling phone calls , and for sending me some gorgeous pistons and other special ingredients to put my 06b-16v hybrid together . Top guy , a total gentleman , and very very fair prices. And bear in mind he had to send the parts over 3500 miles! Hope to deal with you again RhussJr . :thumbup::biggrinsanta:


:thumbup: for Rodney
top Gentlemen / Partner.:beer:


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Back from the dead.

Ordered a new set of cast, stock diameter 9A pistons yesterday to replace the oversize set that I have as there is no need to bore the new 06A block that I have. I will be reviving the engine build as a simple and fresh motor replacement in the GLI.

Late Update Edit:

The pistons came in shortly after my post above and I can't be more pleased as they are OEM Mahle made in Germany. This will be a nice build with a few performance upgrades and factory reliability.


----------



## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Was anything ever done with the 16vg60 brackets you were talking about making? I will be redoing my 16V twin screw project starting this year and if it's possible I may upgrade to the modern blocks. Starting basically from scratch is the perfect time to get into something like this if it's reasonable to pursue.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

8716vrocco said:


> Was anything ever done with the 16vg60 brackets you were talking about making?


Yes , only works if you don't want A/C though.


----------



## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Issam Abed said:


> Yes , only works if you don't want A/C though.


Not an issue here, it's in a Mk2 Scirocco so the only issue I would see having is where the alternator location would be since it could interfere with the front crossmember if the alternator is mounted below the charger. I have the BBM brackets already if they're needed. I would love more info on this.

I should probably also mention that I am not using the G60 charger. I'm running the 2087 Autorotor with the BBM adapter plate on the stock G60 bracket currently.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

Here's my 16v/06x setup. Now sitting at 700whp and 500wtq.  I will also note that I used quite a few different parts than what's listed in this thread to get to this power level on this combo. 

Click for link to FB vid.


----------



## g60vw (Oct 3, 2002)

Badass man. Badass.


----------



## eodtech (Nov 1, 2009)

That's pretty badass. What turbo are you running? I'm looking for similar horsepower goals.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

eodtech said:


> That's pretty badass. What turbo are you running? I'm looking for similar horsepower goals.


One of the new Garrett GTW's 6465R.


----------



## eodtech (Nov 1, 2009)

Jeebus said:


> One of the new Garrett GTW's 6465R.


What housing is that with? I was planning on a gtx3582 with a .82 t3 housing. Seeing your numbers through I'm thinking that's not enough turbo.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

eodtech said:


> What housing is that with? I was planning on a gtx3582 with a .82 t3 housing. Seeing your numbers through I'm thinking that's not enough turbo.


Same housing.

If 700whp is your goal that GTX may do it, but you'll be pushing it to get there.


----------



## eodtech (Nov 1, 2009)

Jeebus said:


> Same housing.
> 
> If 700whp is your goal that GTX may do it, but you'll be pushing it to get there.


That's what I'm thinking. Thanks for the info and keep it up. :beer:


----------



## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

So let me get this straight, I own an OBD1 mk3 with an ABA.
I also have a 16v head, and one of the compatable mk4 2.0 blocks.

If what I've read here is correct then I can merge those two components (machine 9a pistons to clear squirters, & block passages), change the hall window in the dizzy and have a "plug and play" engine?
Granted hoses may be different, and connectors may be different. But is that really it?

Or, do I need to convert to OBD2 ABA management first


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

prometheus_ said:


> So let me get this straight, I own an OBD1 mk3 with an ABA.
> I also have a 16v head, and one of the compatable mk4 2.0 blocks.
> 
> If what I've read here is correct then I can merge those two components (machine 9a pistons to clear squirters, & block passages), change the hall window in the dizzy and have a "plug and play" engine?
> ...


Why not simply use the ABA?


----------



## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

Jeebus said:


> Why not simply use the ABA?


For reasons posted at the start of the thread...?
I've already done the aba16vt thing. 

I don't want to buy more pistons when 9A ones just need some minor machining to clear the squirters.

Sent from my HTC One M9


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

prometheus_ said:


> For reasons posted at the start of the thread...?
> I've already done the aba16vt thing.
> 
> I don't want to buy more pistons when 9A ones just need some minor machining to clear the squirters.
> ...


Going through this frankenstien setup with machined 9a pistons is a waste of time IMO. If you have interest in making real power then stock cast 9a pistons won't get you there. In fact even if you want to make moderate power... you still need all the things listed at the beginning of this thread, plus a handful of other things (most of which are listed throughout this thread). 

If you already have an ABA 16vT then this doesn't make much sense to me. If you're building a motor for a newer car MK4+ then yes it makes sense, or if you're starting from scratch as it's easy to find 06x blocks.


----------



## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

Jeebus said:


> Going through this frankenstien setup with machined 9a pistons is a waste of time IMO. If you have interest in making real power then stock cast 9a pistons won't get you there. In fact even if you want to make moderate power... you still need all the things listed at the beginning of this thread, plus a handful of other things (most of which are listed throughout this thread).
> 
> If you already have an ABA 16vT then this doesn't make much sense to me. If you're building a motor for a newer car MK4+ then yes it makes sense, or if you're starting from scratch as it's easy to find 06x blocks.


The ABA16vt is in a different car.

I have a complete 9A that's already in dire need of refurbishing (with more heads at the ready), mk4 blocks are _everywhere_ now, and sourcing 9A/ABA gear in good shape is getting tiresome.
If I were looking to make 'real power' I wouldn't be concerned about any of this, and would be running standalone talking with Issam/Russ/Whomever about a fancy head and bottom end arrangement.

I want to plug&play a mildly cammed 16v into stock the Motronic setup of an OBD1 (or OBD2 if required) ABA-equipped MK3.
If the only real machine work needed is that of the stock 9A pistons to clear the squirters, then that is cheaper to have done than trying to make an external trigger setup work on a 9A.

As far as I can tell I need the following to make a Plug&Play OBD1 06X16v:

*06X Block*

AZG headgasket
Oil squirter ports blocked
9A Rods & Pistons, 06X 2.Slow Crank

Machine 9A Pistons for Clearance

ARP Head Studs
AZG Tensioner & Spacer
Lexus Timing Belt
*PL/9A 16v Head
*
16v Dizzy window swapped for ABA window
AZG Cam gear
*MISC*

OBD1 ABA Throttlebody adapter for 16v Manifold
The usual digi-style fuel rail, fpr, & injector swap
Maybe some minor things I'm missing

All I need to know is if there are any 06X related bits I am forgetting.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

You need a late model 1.8t cam sprocket also. Also if your going through the trouble of having pistons cut down, you may as well have the reliefs cut in them to keep the oil squirters. 

As you can see your list is growing compared to simply running a crank sensor on your 9a. 

If you do decide to go with the 06x16v setup. I have a brand new set of the required ARP headstuds for this conversion in the box for another one I was building. I ended up doing something different so they never got used.


----------



## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

Jeebus said:


> You need a late model 1.8t cam sprocket also. Also if your going through the trouble of having pistons cut down, you may as well have the reliefs cut in them to keep the oil squirters.
> 
> As you can see your list is growing compared to simply running a crank sensor on your 9a.
> 
> If you do decide to go with the 06x16v setup. I have a brand new set of the required ARP headstuds for this conversion in the box for another one I was building. I ended up doing something different so they never got used.


Cam sprocket is no big dealio.
In regard to the pistons, having the reliefs cut is what I meant to punch in~

The list can grow, that's no big deal.

An external setup typically costs around $220usd + shipping + duty. I'd rather simplify and not need that. 

Sent from my HTC One M9


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

I posted this in another thread, but figured I should at least share it with the 16V forum as a little knowledge or history:

I was talking with a buddy yesterday and ended up picking up this from him. Somewhat rare-ish, but definitely getting hard to find these days is the 93 (12/92-10/93) 9A head, which is what became the ABF 16V head, but without the better intake cam. There were three heads used in the USA, the 1.8 PL head, the 2.0 9A head and this one, the late 2.0 9A head. Very few 93 Passat 16V cars were made and the ABF started production for the European market 08/92. The ABF casting, which by the way, has the same casting number as the early 9A (051 103 373 D), makes it almost an Easter Egg hunt, as you won't know until you look at it. The advantage if this casting is the ports are a big improvement over the PL & previous 9A castings. The ports are cleaner and with the addition of pulsed injection and the improved intake cam, more HP was gained.























































It will go nicely with this piece I picked up last month










Here is a pic of the last ABF head that I had, which is now on my buddy Fred's Mk1 GTI. Notice the valve cover differences. The spark plug hole bosses are angled, not flat and the two center cover bolts are recessed even more and held on by nuts, not bolts. The gasket is also different by the way, the cam caps on the outer ends are grooved like the 8V engines to help retain the gasket in place (something you won't see until you pull the cover off).


----------



## 134hpvw (Sep 6, 2013)

i had a 93 passat 16v from a candian diplomat that brought it home after his tour in germany.

i parted out that car without knowing what i had.

this explains why that car came factory equipped with a 50 mm intake; no wide open throtle switch.

the distributor shown ; looks very similar to the audi pt code unit. i am glad i picked up 4 of those last summer


----------



## Crown Royal (Apr 30, 2013)

*06F-16V for Mk1 Project*

Hello all!
First, wanting to thank Issam for starting this thread and all who have replied with technical content. The information here has inspired the engine build for my Mk1 Project. I've decided to use an 06F(BPY) engine block with FSI crankshaft for the bottom end of my Hybrid 16V. I have a couple of questions regarding the 06F block: 

Why does this engine block have cast main bearing caps and not billet main bearing caps as others have stated is a feature of the FSI/BPY 2.0 engine?

What prevents crankcase pressure from leaking at the engine block oil drains where the 16V cylinder head and head gasket (I'll be using AZG head gasket) mate at the cylinder head/engine block part line if there is no cylinder head material overhanging this area to clamp the head gasket? 

Bottom side of 06F engine block:









9A 16V cylinder head mocked up on 06F engine block:

















Engine block oil drains with 9A 16V cylinder head on BPY head gasket:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Crown Royal said:


> Hello all!
> First, wanting to thank Issam for starting this thread and all who have replied with technical content. The information here has inspired the engine build for my Mk1 Project. I've decided to use an 06F(BPY) engine block with FSI crankshaft for the bottom end of my Hybrid 16V. I have a couple of questions regarding the 06F block:
> 
> Why does this engine block have cast main bearing caps and not billet main bearing caps as others have stated is a feature of the FSI/BPY 2.0 engine?
> ...


I wouldn't have used the 06F block. Remove the crankshaft and find an 06A block. 
With the 06F block you are going to need:

adapter plate for 1.8T oil filter housing ($$)
drilling and tapping the block for 06A oil pump (also $$$)

But to answer your questions:
- No 06F block came with billet main caps. Thats an urban myth. 
- The AZG head gasket will cover the 3 rear oil return channels so you are good there.


----------



## eddy.h (Apr 25, 2009)

hi all i have a G60 corrado with i done a 16VG60 on it i,ve thought about puting a 20v in it so i bought a bam 20v now i thinking about this
my main question is i have a set of 83mm BBM Spec, Custom Forged Pistons 
BBM Spec, Scat Billet 4340 H-beam forged connecting rods, set of four rods, ARP 2000 rod bolts installed.


the rods are 144x20mm 
pistons are ross racing pistons 16v 8:0:1 Compression Ratio
this kit is for a pg block 16v head 

wot do the experts on here think about this set of pistions & rods fitting in an 06a block


----------



## msrwerks (Apr 21, 2008)

Back from the dead again...
As a winter project I have started this conversion from my current 9A. Found a good AVH block and have it dissembled.
This is just a replacement block for my current stock 9A NA setup. 
I understand I will have to bring my current 9A pistons and one of the AVH pistons to the machine shop to get the oil squirter reliefs cut into the correct side of the piston.
I hope someone can answer the other questions that were not clear to me after reading this entire thread.

- How do I use the AVH block crankcase breather system? The AVH engine (from 2001 jetta) had the crankcase breather system coming out of the valve cover. Is there a factory VW that used the block crankcase breather system?

- Will the #4 9A stock piston clear the AVH stock trigger wheel on the crankshaft with no modification from the machine shop?

- What camshaft gear to I use? (part number please)

- What timing belt and tensioner do I use?

- Are the ARP head studs still available? If so, how do I order these?

Thank you,
Michael


----------



## msrwerks (Apr 21, 2008)

*Another one running...*






I am working on updating my build thread with the details.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

What were the answers to your questions?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

msrwerks said:


> - How do I use the AVH block crankcase breather system? The AVH engine (from 2001 jetta) had the crankcase breather system coming out of the valve cover. Is there a factory VW that used the block crankcase breather system?
> - Will the #4 9A stock piston clear the AVH stock trigger wheel on the crankshaft with no modification from the machine shop?
> - What camshaft gear to I use? (part number please)
> - What timing belt and tensioner do I use?
> - Are the ARP head studs still available? If so, how do I order these?


Answers:

You can use the Beetle crankcase breather (06A103465) or tap your 16V valve cover (I suggest welding in a small breather box on the inside of the valve cover)
Depends on the build date. I typically turn all 4 on a lathe to bring them shorter and within the same weight.
Stock 06A unit from a 1.8T. Use can't use the AVH one due to the impulse ring (unless you modify the 16V head for camshaft position which would be pointless since you can just take camshaft position off the distirbutor on the back of the head)
Timing belt was posted multiple pages ago. It is from the Toyota 2GZ-GE engine / Lexus . 
Yes , send an email all though reading your build thread you have


----------



## the dubshow (Mar 18, 2008)

Man, this thread was a great read. Thanks for all your info Issam. Glad I logged back in after a many year break.

Makes me reconsider the pile of ABA/9a parts and forged what nots I have sitting.I did bore my block to the 83.5mm for wiseco pistons.


----------



## raguturbo (May 19, 2004)

*06F*

Can anyone explain what work is needed to use a 2.0 fsi block and bottom end. It seems like would be a cheap option that could hold more power then stock 9a stuff but cost less then buying forged pistons and rods.


----------



## Jeebus (Jul 8, 2001)

raguturbo said:


> Can anyone explain what work is needed to use a 2.0 fsi block and bottom end. It seems like would be a cheap option that could hold more power then stock 9a stuff but cost less then buying forged pistons and rods.


There is no difference in strength between the 1.8t block, rods and pistons compared to the FSI. All the same work is required that's listed in this thread. A couple more things required really if trying to use the FSI block simply due to the oil pump which you'd want to switch to the older style.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

raguturbo said:


> Can anyone explain what work is needed to use a 2.0 fsi block and bottom end. It seems like would be a cheap option that could hold more power then stock 9a stuff but cost less then buying forged pistons and rods.


Do not use the 06F (2.0 FSI) block. It will cost you more to get the required conversion bits than it would to use a 2.0 8V or even a 1.8T (bored out to 82.5mm bore).

06A block requires:
- Head studs 
- head gasket

06F block requires:
- Oil filter housing adapter plate
- Oil pump conversion
unless you want to roll the dice with the stock 06F oil pump.


----------



## Jolf3 (Jul 31, 2008)

From what I have see in a post in french on VWQuebec.ca , if you use a BEV engine, you don't have to machined the 9A piston to clear the oil squirters, you just have to shim the oil squirters!

Hope it help!


----------



## zippy_vw_gti (Nov 18, 2008)

I've been thinking about doing this hybrid conversion with my 16V Gti for a while now. A few years ago I had to put a new engine in after breaking the timing belt on the original engine. I still have that old motor and head with the bent valves and have dreamed about rebuilding that, but after seeing this thread have thought this might be a better solution. 

The question I have now is should I swap out the original 020 5 speed that is there for a different one? I was wondering if there was a better transmission to put in if/when I eventually do this? I have had all sorts of shifting problems, even after replacing all the worn bushings with delrin ones. I also have a really tight clutch with no real play or adjustment in the cable ever since I replaced my clutch when putting in that new engine. What I experienced as shifting issues ended up being issues with the clutch not disengaging enough. Any advice as I make these plans would be great.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Does it shift OK now?

If you are still having shifting problems, they could be caused by bad or maladjusted motor mounts.

I know the Scirocco 16V used a different right motor mount than the 8V. I don't know about the GTI 16V.

Bad or maladjusted motor mounts also affect other VWs that use the 020.

A dealer once pressed the transmission side mount in upside down on my Scirocco 8V and I could not get the shifter aligned.

I took it back apart and compared the mounts to the Bentley. I took the transmission mount back to the dealer to get it pressed in rightside up.

EDIT: I plumb forgot the GTI 16V was a MK2. Golly!


----------



## VDub2625 (Jan 4, 2003)

02A is popular upgrade. I did a swap thread here:








02A/J/S swap into Mk3 thread (4 cylinder)


I just did this, and thought I'd post my expirences and findings, in case anyone else is planning on doing this soon. It works well with, say, a 1.8T swap etc, but you can just do the trans swap if you like. This is grared straight towards a 4 cyl swap (which is what I did), but, a VR6 swap is...




www.vwvortex.com





The process is nearly the same for Mk2, except you can opt to keep a cable clutch with a Eurovan kit, or go hydraulic with Corrado parts. 

The motor mounts on MK2 are all the same, fit-wise, even between the different designs of the front and passenger side mounts (early were disc shaped, later were cup shaped). The trans mount on Mk2 and Mk3 are all identically swappable, some are hydro and some are rubber, but that's it.


----------



## garryt (Dec 22, 2016)

I see very little to be gained by used one block over the other.


----------



## merkd-ya (Jun 11, 2011)

Sooooo I've only gotten to about page 10 and have this question, might be a stupid one but only if it remains unasked. Can I use my 88 16v scirocco head and my 2000 tt225 block to create a Scirocco 16v225t? Can I use the tt engine management or do I need to go standalone?


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

I also just wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted in this thread. I have a Mk2 16V and a Rocco 16V. My Rocco was bought after sitting with a blown headgasket and one or two of the cylinders is trash. A few years ago I found a wrecking yard that had two 9A engines for $120 each, so I bought them. One for the Rocco, another for a Mk1 Rabbit I had at the time I was going to convert to carb'd, cammed 16V. 
As for my Mk2, I am simply DONE with owning cars without A/C! I live in Florida. And the V belt setup sucks @$$.. On the Mk2 I did a ton of work converting it to ABA stuff like 3 years ago, never quite finished because it seemed like I went from one problem/interference to another. I put these cars off to the side while I worked on some other projects and life.

I love the packaging of the Mk4 4 cylinder engines. I have swapped an AEG into a Mk1 like 7 or 8 years ago(in my sig). But I wanted to keep both of these cars 16V on CIS. I have a Euro K-basic CIS setup for both of them. 

For the past year I told myself I am going to get both of these cars going again. Again, A/C is a must. Id ponder how I would do some kind of custom serpentine setup from time to time.

Then like 6 months ago I was sitting in the shop and it popped in my head that the AEG is a short deck and 2, and the Mk4/PL/9A are similar in head bolt pattern, I knew the Mk4 used a wide belt.. I went "Hmmm, I wonder if I could hybrid the 16V head on an AEG??" Popped on google to look for differences I might have missed and this thread came right up..

For some this swap makes zero sense. For others it makes perfect sense. I havent seen an ABA in the junkyard in years. And if you want air conditioning without retightening the V belt every 500 miles, the ABA brackets dont fit the older cars very well. 

One thing I will add, is now the U-Pull-Its are getting very proud of their stuff. LKQ is up $279+75 core for a long block(not including the accessories), and $179+45 core for a short block. So youre looking at $225-$350 plus a day scorching in the wrecking yard for a 200K mile Mk4 engine. 

*So I went on Ebay and started looking at the Mk6 2.0 Engines*. Since they made a ton of them, theres a huge supply, and since they dont break, theres no demand for them. Sure enough, apparently there full service wrecking yards full of them, with no buyers. LKQ in particular has a ton of them all over the country. I bought two complete CPBA code engines, one is from a 2014 that cost me $170, and one from a 2011 that cost me $130. No core, no spending all day in the U Pull it. From what I can find and see, its basically just a slightly more modern version of the BEV/AZH/AEG. 

The accessory bracket for the CPBA is different than the Mk4, but thats in part because the Mk6 AC compressor bolts on different. I thought about using the Mk6 compressor, but it has funky ports, and the adaptors ports are easily available. So I went to the junkyard and pulled the accessory bracket, alternator and PS pump of a 2004 Golf, and it fit the CPBA just fine. Just need to make sure you get the bolts with the bracket, because the CPBA bracket bolts are longer than the Mk4 bolts.

Looking forward to picking up another engine stand or two so I can start checking out the internals, but I am expecting the Mk6 CPBA will be just like a Mk4 2.0 internally.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

BoostedOne said:


> I also just wanted to say thanks to everyone that posted in this thread. I have a Mk2 16V and a Rocco 16V. My Rocco was bought after sitting with a blown headgasket and one or two of the cylinders is trash. A few years ago I found a wrecking yard that had two 9A engines for $120 each, so I bought them. One for the Rocco, another for a Mk1 Rabbit I had at the time I was going to convert to carb'd, cammed 16V.
> As for my Mk2, I am simply DONE with owning cars without A/C! I live in Florida. And the V belt setup sucks @$$.. On the Mk2 I did a ton of work converting it to ABA stuff like 3 years ago, never quite finished because it seemed like I went from one problem/interference to another. I put these cars off to the side while I worked on some other projects and life.
> 
> I love the packaging of the Mk4 4 cylinder engines. I have swapped an AEG into a Mk1 like 7 or 8 years ago(in my sig). But I wanted to keep both of these cars 16V on CIS. I have a Euro K-basic CIS setup for both of them.
> ...


Very interesting.
Can you get 16V pistons for them?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Very interesting.
> Can you get 16V pistons for them?


They would use the same ones as a Mk4 which are the same as a 9A uses. Their rods are probably 19 mm so either open them to 20 mm or use 9A rods.


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

vwpat said:


> They would use the same ones as a Mk4 which are the same as a 9A uses. Their rods are probably 19 mm so either open them to 20 mm or use 9A rods.


Yep, basically. Decided to post my story, see below.

So, its been about 4 months, and the car has been running for about three weeks!
This was a very budget build. But I am glad I did it.
So as mentioned, I bought my Rocco January 14,2016, according to the time stamp on the picture.








I bought it from a guy who bought it from Copart with no history. Running the Carfax showed it last registered in 2002.
After replacing the fuel pumps and putting new fuel in it, I found out on the reason it was sitting for so long.









I replaced the head gasket, but found a couple of cylinders rusty as hell. Tried to clean it up, but it ran rough as crap.

So the car sat until this fall. As mentioned, in August I picked up a 2.0 from a 2011 Jetta Mk6.









Since the engine didnt have any accessories(alternator, PS Pump, etc) I grabbed those from a I went to the U Pull It and pulled everything except the AC Compressor(will buy that new) from a Mk4. If you do this be sure to get the bolts for the bracket, as they are a different length than the bolts for the Mk6 bracket.
This is a junk spare 16V head I threw on just to check fitup of the mk4 accessories.
























From there I began tearing down one of the 9A engines I purchased to install in the car a few years ago so I could get the rods/pistons. This is why I say I am glad I went this route..
















I could have sworn I took pics of the internals. The pistons managed to clean up pretty good, amazingly. I weighed all the pistons and rods, and found all the rods to be within a gram or so, and the pistons to be within 7 grams. I then determined where the material had to be removed from the pistons to clear the oil squirters, crank counterweights, and tone ring. I performed the notching of the pistons by hand with a steady hand on a die grinder. I ground the pistons to the same weight variance as the rods, and ultimately had rods and pistons all within a gram.

For bearings I noticed the ring specs for the 16V and the Mk4 and Mk6 were the same. So I ended up using Mk4 or Mk6 rings and Mk6 bearings. The ring choice was mainly due to availability of Mahle rings at a good price. I assume the Mk4 and 6 rings are a low tension ring that is common on most newer vehicles.


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

So at this point I pulled the engine out of the car so I could get my PL head, and start getting the trans cleaned up and ready for the reinstall.

Headbolts/headstuds. I debated the options of McMaster 10mm bolts, ARP studs, and redrilling the block to 11mm. I decided to drill and tap for 11mm. Ordered a standard and bottoming tap, only to find* the block has counterbore on the head bolt holes*. I dont know if this is a Mk6 thing, but the first 10-13mm of the head bolt holes in the block are not threaded, and were basically about the size of the 11mm head bolt. *Therefore, if I was to drill and tap for 11mm I would have lost a LOT of thread engagement*.
So I ended up going the McMaster route for now, as I am not boosting it and just want the car to be able to move at this point. Keep in mind that in almost 6 years of ownership, I have driven it maybe 5 miles. Its been pushed around and collecting dust the rest of the time. The head was just refreshed when I did the head gasket 5 miles ago, so all I did to the head was to transfer the new dowel hole location and install a set of Schrick 260 cams I had laying around.

On December 2, it was all finally bolted together! One thing I didnt think about was the front water neck, and the port that used to go to the old water pump. Not shown in this pic, but I pulled it back off, and noticed that the ID was about the drill size for a 3/4" NPT. So I cut the nipple down, tapped it for 3/4" NPT, and installed a pipe plug to block off the lower port.



























After that, I got to thinking about the crank case ventilation thing. One thing thats different on the Mk6 vs the Mk4, is if you look closely at the 2nd to last pic, that while the feature is cast into the housing for the PCV pipe(that gets plugged on the Mk4 2.0), on the Mk6 its not open. I noticed this early on, but Issam mentioned along the way at some point that welding a nipple to the valve cover is an option. The more I thought about it, the less I liked that idea. 
I decided to try some hack isht. I removed the housing from the engine, and drilled out the port to make it functional. I then obtained a 304 stainless 1" NPT to 1.25" barb 90 off Amazon. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07M76JVLP?ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details&th=1. Now for the hack isht. I have Ultra Black RTV in the pressurized can. I put the adaptor in the vice to hold it steady. I then put a thick layer of Ultra Black on the bore of the port, then inserted the elbow at the desired angle. I then filled the gap between the elbow and the housing solid with RTV and let it set for 24 hours to cure. I can tell you, its never coming out! And the original hose fits perfect.

























So from there, it was get the trans cleaned up for install, and all the rest of that jazz. On December 11th, had first fire and and ran!! Put the engine and trans back in the car, made up some custom AC lines, and on December 14th, got to do this! Its so awesome turning the AC on and not hearing a belt squeel! LOL


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

For oil coolant hoses, I happened to have a couple sets of new oil cooler hoses laying around for the ALH. The one that goes to the water pipe installs as normal. But on the Mk4/Mk6, the nipple for the other hose is on the bottom of the water neck, and on the 16V its on the top of the neck. Not sure about the others, but the ALH hose had enough length to twist it and rotate it to the top side nipple location.
Upper radiator hose is standard 16V.
Lower radiator hose is standard 16V, cut in front of the AC compressor where its running parallel to the radiator. Then two Dayco 70641 hoses joined by a 1.25" hose joiner.
Power steering pump is Mk4, with Mk3 high pressure hose, factory return hose.





































And out for its first ride running good in probably almost 20 years!!


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Great job! Pictures of a 06A/9A on a stand in front of a mk4 jetta wagon sure does bring back memories.

I’d like more details on the custom AC lines. Did you DIY or had them made?


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I made my own A/C lines on my project and if anyone ever does, they really need to look into the reduced barrier hoses. They are so much smaller in outer diameter and way more flexible than the standard hose. 

Making hoses is fairly easy. Get the cheap Chinese hose crimping tool and once you have the fittings/hoses, it's a piece of cake.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Im all about doing stuff myself, but my local NAPA has every hose, end, etc and can make custom lines. All for super cheap.


----------

