# RWD Gearbox



## Snowman76 (May 16, 2001)

Need your help guys...I'm planning a new build project and I would like to use a 1,8T enigine or or ther VW/Audi engine and i need RWD-gearbox..Got any ideas execept Ford type 9 gearbox and or volvo..I don't liek nay of them and would like sometthing else?
//Magnus


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

Ford T5 would be a good bet, and can handle plenty of power. I think they're in Mustangs in the US, over here they were fitted in the 2wd Sierra Cosworths, other options include BMW 3 series and Toyota supra, but all will require a custom bellhousing or an adapter plate. 
There was a German company that fitted the 1.8T in a Lotus 7 look alike, but i don't know what tranny they used, or what they did about mating it to a VW engine. Might be worth hitting google http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
EDIT: found this







http://www.supercars.net/cars/3180.html Borg Warner 


_Modified by polov8 at 9:08 PM 9-3-2005_


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

I think you could use the bulletproof Audi Quattro drivetrain and disable the front output flanges or just lock the center diff. Should be a bolt-on if you start with a 4 or 5 cyl Audi donor.


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## Snowman76 (May 16, 2001)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (polov8)*

I know about the Donkervoort Super 7 but I haven't been able to find out which gearbox it is, from what car it comes or if it's special designed for Donkervoort. BW makes lots of gearboxes.
If you happen to know please tell me. 
To everyone mentioning Sierra, Cossie and mustang gearboxes...I don't want Ford! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
The Audi gearbox seems like an interesting idea. I heard about the old LT31 gearboxes...do these fit "modern" VW/Audi engines....
Magnus 

_Modified by Snowman76 at 11:13 AM 9-4-2005_


_Modified by Snowman76 at 11:14 AM 9-4-2005_


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

The T5 is a Borg warner gearbox, not a ford one. it just happens to be found in a few fords. 
The Audi Idea would work, but the transmission would end up being bigger and heavier than required, and would also nessecitate stripping the 'box to dissable the centre diff. the LT 31 transmission is horrible. the ratios are set for a van, and the shift is lousy. 
What is this going to be fitted to?


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

Yeah, I'm just learning about Audis, but many of them have ratios that are waaay too far apart. I wish I had a list of gearbox choices and ratios, but haven't seen one yet. As far as the actual shifting, it depends on the linkage TO the tranny. Even though the bolt patterns for 4 and 5 cyl are different, I've been told that ANY Audi gearbox that came bolted to a 5-cyl Audi engine will also bolt to a 4-cyl, since the 5-cyl bellhousings are supposed to have come with dual bolt patterns. I think the 6-cyls are different, though. The 1.8T has the same bolt pattern as the earlier 4-cyls.


_Modified by o2bad455 at 6:09 PM 9-4-2005_


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## DanSycks (Aug 30, 2005)

T5 is nice in that Borg Warner will put almost any set of ratios into the box you could want and they also have done versions of that tranny for almost every possible swap combo you could come up with. They have a rep of being very good at making something out of the norm work like a champ.


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## Snowman76 (May 16, 2001)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

What was the T5 gearbox fitted too? mustangs? 
Why i don't like Ford Sierra type gearbox is that I have driven many of them and apart from being loosy cars the gearboxes are just like a stick in a oil bucket...not very interesting and exact. Not a sporty gearbox in my opinion.
Im planning a Super 7 style car or a cobra light weight..
maybe a light weight s7 with a Turbodiesel due to the rtax rules here in sweden


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## eurotuner-a2 (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

first of all the t5 is crap it has a reputation of breaking easily. however tremec gear boxes are very stong. You can't go wrong with a tremec tko, or a t56. richmond also offers a 5sp.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Snowman76* »_What was the T5 gearbox fitted too? mustangs?


If it makes you feel any better, the T5 was not only used in Mustangs and Cosworths, but also in the 300ZX, Camaro Z28, and some others.


_Quote »_
Why i don't like Ford Sierra type gearbox is that I have driven many of them and apart from being loosy cars the gearboxes are just like a stick in a oil bucket...not very interesting and exact. Not a sporty gearbox in my opinion.


Which ones have you driven? You mentioned the T9 in your original post. You cannot compare a T9 with a T5. The T9 sucks. It is sloppier than the wet p*ssy of a 2 dollar crack whore, and they break EASY. But, what else do you expect from a German gearbox?








Drive a cable shifted VW. If that feels REMOTELY acceptable to you, you would LOVE a T5 with an aftermarket shifter. Each gear has a precise location, with a decently defined gate pattern. If you DID drive a T5 equipped car(which I dont think you have) and it had slop, its because of the rubber isolators they used between the shifter base and the shift lever. The aftermarket shifters dont have the isolators, and are very precise. The aftermarket shifters also have stops. One of the biggest reasons T5s fail is because of powershifting which is hard on the shift forks. The aftermarket shifter has a screw stop that limits the travel of the lever, so that the fork is not absorbing all the force of the shift once the gear is selected.
Plus they are dirt cheap. You can pick them up here in the states for 50-75$ from the wrecking yard, and straight out of the junkyard will life perfectly fine behind a low 13second, 3000lb car. 
As for someone mentioning Tremec's too bad their record isnt as good as the hype. Back when I was into Mustangs I knew of alot of guys who went to built T5s after putting Tremecs intheir car and breaking them in a matter of days where the T5 atleast took a few months or years.
Isnt the Tremec just a glorified Jeep tranny anyhow ?










_Modified by BoostedOne at 3:37 AM 9-20-2005_


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## riceslayah (Jan 6, 2005)

so this T5, will the bell housing bolt up to a vw block? i assume youd have to fabricate a flywheel to work with it.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: (riceslayah)*

Yeah, you're gonna have to make an adaptor plate at a minimum, although a 02A flywheel could probably be made to work with it using a spacer. 02A trannies use a clutch setup that is more common to the rest of the world instead of that dumbass setup that was on the 020.
Basically all that would be needed is a 1 1/16" diameter 10 tooth spline clutch plate with a diameter that would fit the 02A flywheel. If I recall correctly the diameter of the clutch used on the 83-88 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe/Mustang SVO was around 9 1/8 to 9 1/4" depending on the year, and some of the naturally aspirated versions reportedly have a smaller diameter, like 8.5".


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## riceslayah (Jan 6, 2005)

so what about the bell housing? im really curious about this. i always wanted a rwd vdub. so you need to space the flywheel away from the crank and find a clutch disk thatle work with the 02a fly/pp? i wanna do this.


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## nuugen (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: (riceslayah)*

Why don't you use a Golf/Passat Syncro tranny and just leave the front driveshafts disconnected...Probably easier to find over there than here...Or a 4-motion unit..


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: (riceslayah)*


_Quote, originally posted by *riceslayah* »_so what about the bell housing? im really curious about this. i always wanted a rwd vdub. so you need to space the flywheel away from the crank and find a clutch disk thatle work with the 02a fly/pp? i wanna do this. 

Well, I will start out by saying I havent actually done this on a VW, just know a few guys that have done similar stuff.
Anyhow, you got to find someone who will fab you up an adaptor plate. Because of the plate, the distance between the back of the crank and the input shaft will be alot longer. So you will need a spacer to go on the back of your flywheel.
Another thing you will need is a pilot bearing bearing releif cut into the spacer, because the T5 does not have a bearing in the front to support the input shaft. All T5 applications have a bearing that rides in the back of the crankshaft that supports it. If you get a Ford 4 cylinder T5, the pilot bearings are pretty small in diameter though, so it should be an easy fit. They are only like 3/4" OD.
Personally, if I was going to go through the trouble of a RWD swap, I would be running an automatic anyhow. Chances are, if you are going RWD you will be making alot of HP, and automatics are faster atleast for drag racing.


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## Piper106 (Mar 23, 2003)

*Re: (BoostedOne)*

I'm building a adapter to fit a Borg Warner T5 to a Volks 4 cylinder (water cooled Golf, Jetta, Rabbit, etc. engine) in my garage (slowly, between being with the parents while they are in the hospital and honey do items), and here is what I think I know. 
The problem with the flywheel from all the transverse engine cars (including the 02A and 02M) is that the starter ring gear is only accessable from the transmission side. I cannot think of an American bell housing that would allow a starter to mate to a transverse flywheel without cutting the bell grossly, or fabing a bell housing from scratch.
(Although if someone could post some close pics of an 02A, G60 or A3/B4 TDI flywheel relative to the starter ring gear and which side the starter pinion would have to come in from to confirm the above would be nice). 
The Dasher, Quantum, Fox, and B5 Passat flywheels have the starter ring gear on the engine side of the flywheel and you can put the starter alongside the engine block, just like those cars do. The flywheel and pressure plate from a B5 Passat with 1.8T is pretty close. If you could get a special clutch disc that would be Passat style except for the hub which would be the right diameter and splines to match the trans you will be using it, you should be golden. I am going another way since I want to use a stock GM clutch disc I can get an any NAPA store, but that work is still in progress, and still on the secret list. 
Now a quick class on T5s and bell housings. Looks like the best bet would be to get a T5 and the bell housing from a 2.8L V6 powered S-10 pickup or a 2.8L V6 version of the Camaro. That bell housing is thin enough that you need an plate about 1" thick between the VW block and the bell housing, none of the bolt holes in the 2.8L V6 bell interfer with the VW block bolts, and the bell just clears the coolant outlet on the end of the VW cylinder head. The other good news with a GM build T5 is that they have a 15 mm pilot extension. That is the same size as the pilot bearing from a Quantum, that is what I will be using. 
Starter. Most VW starters use an Oillite type bronze bushing in the transmission case to support the end of the starter shaft, and providing such a bushing in the bell housing or the adapter plate would be a pain, so I will be using a gear reduction starter from Kennedy Engineering intended for a classic air cooled VW. The gear reduction starter is self contained, no outboard bushing required. A post on another board says the early and late gears are compatable. 
Like I say, that is what I think I know.
Piper106

_Modified by Piper106 at 6:59 AM 9-24-2005_

_Modified by Piper106 at 7:00 AM 9-24-2005_

_Modified by Piper106 at 5:27 AM 9-25-2005_


_Modified by Piper106 at 5:56 AM 9-25-2005_


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Great info!


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## Piper106 (Mar 23, 2003)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

As far as that German outfit (hkt) that makes the Lotus 7 replica with the Audi 1.8T engine, if you could get parts from them, that would work. Problem is that I sent Emails twice, first in English hoping they would have someone in the office that could translate, second time translated into German via Babblefish on my end first, but not a word in return. 
As far as using one of the Audi AWD boxes with the front axles disconnected, I looked at one from a A4?? that was cutaway at the Detroit Auto Show (NAIAS) a couple of years back, and that is one big and heavy looking piece of machinery. OK if you need the AWD, way too much to get RWD only. 
Piper106


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## nuugen (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Piper106)*

Actually I was referring to the older Rallye Golf/Passat syncro tranny, smaller/lighter than the A4 monster http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ..But if the T5 option is viable, I say go for it...


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

there is also a Donkervoort sports car with a 1.8t engine,it uses eithr an e30 bmw gearbox or a ford sierra box, i e-mailed them and got a reply that they only sell parts to the owners of the cars


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

Here in the States, VW 4-cyl engines were also used in certain Grumman trucks and postal vehicles. Not sure if any of these were RWD, but might be worth checking.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_there is also a Donkervoort sports car with a 1.8t engine,it uses eithr an e30 bmw gearbox or a ford sierra box, i e-mailed them and got a reply that they only sell parts to the owners of the cars

I dont know what the E30 uses tranny wise, but I think the Sierras pretty much just had T-9s(crap) or T5s(if its a Cosworth).


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## Piper106 (Mar 23, 2003)

*Re: (o2bad455)*

The late 1970s early 1980s US Post Office D-5G two wheel drive Jeeps were powered by the early 1970s era Audi 100 engine. 
That engine has its own trans end bolt pattern, which as far as I know, is nothing like the the bolt pattern used on the VW four cylinder engines that started in 1975 (Golf I/Rabbit) and continues to this day on the latest 1.8T and PD diesels.
Piper106


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (Piper106)*

IIRC there is a Fiat and/or Lada RWD transmission that bolts up the VW 4 cyl.


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*

I'd be surprised if that was the case, given that the Lada was based on an old FIAT design, but you could be right.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (Piper106)*

I'll take your word for it on the postal trucks, but it does seems odd that they would still be producing the old Audi 100 4-cyl well after the release of the new style engine, particualrly when no current cars were still using it (other than as the 924 block). 
Were there any other postal trucks (possibly later) that might have been powered by the Rabbit/Golf engine? 
I did more research on the Grumman trucks, which did turn out to be powered by the Rabbit engine but were also FWD. Oh well.


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: RWD Gearbox (Snowman76)*

Or you could use a 904 Torque-flite trans from a Early 80's Postal Jeep. There were many that used the VW 1.7 liter engines. The 904 can be built up to handle any power the VW engine would put out.


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