# My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

This is how my valves look at 59K.
BG service done 1000 miles ago. First BG service was done @ around 25K, then 40K, then 50K and now at 58K. 
No Catch Can ever.


































_Modified by Runin2Rich4FSi at 1:22 PM 4-1-2010_


----------



## sabba (Oct 25, 2008)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

Damn those valves look heavy!


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (sabba)*

yeah, gonna have them cleaned shortly.


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

Runin2Rich4FSi, awesome job! These are the first photos I have seen from a BG- serviced car. Everyone has been wondering about this. Excellent info.!


----------



## orange1218 (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_Runin2Rich4FSi, awesome job! These are the first photos I have seen from a BG- serviced car. Everyone has been wondering about this. Excellent info.!

x2. Thanks Runin2...you have just convinced me not to invest in BG service and just do the manifold tear down route instead.


----------



## kayaker10 (Jan 10, 2006)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

Where are the after photos?


----------



## KCMTNBIKER (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (kayaker10)*

Do I understand correctly...are these photo's 1,000 miles after your last BG Service?


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (KCMTNBIKER)*

The after photos havent happened yet because I havent torn down the manifold yet. waiting for my new injectors to arrive first.
And yes, this is approx 800-1000 miles after doing a BG service.


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (Runin2Rich4FSi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Runin2Rich4FSi* »_The after photos havent happened yet because I havent torn down the manifold yet. waiting for my new injectors to arrive first.
And yes, this is approx 800-1000 miles after doing a BG service.

Are you running a catch can, if so, how long have you've been running it?


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (rippie74)*

no Catch can. updating OP


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

The valves actually look damn good for the mileage IMO. Other than what's on the stem, it's just slight surface depositing.
Dave


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

oil, change interval, and oil consumption?


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: (rhouse181)*

used mobil 1 syn 0w40 80% of the time.
Car def has consumed some oil between changes.. about 1 1/2 quarts. 
oil change every 10K.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (Runin2Rich4FSi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Runin2Rich4FSi* »_used mobil 1 syn 0w40 80% of the time.
Car def has consumed some oil between changes.. about 1 1/2 quarts. 
*oil change every 10K.*

Too long . . . esp for a BT


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

This does make you wonder if frequent (say every5k) seafoam treatments would have been just as effective or possibly more effective... (not that either methhod is effective enough overall).


_Modified by saaber2 at 11:49 AM 4-1-2010_


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Too long . . . esp for a BT

your opinion


----------



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Runin2Rich4FSi* »_
your opinion


he is right do a UOA of your oil and see what you find...


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_This does make you wonder if frequent (say every5k) seafoam treatments would have been just as effective or possibly more effective... (not that either methhod is effective enough overall).

_Modified by saaber2 at 11:49 AM 4-1-2010_

I'm fairly convinced that induction services have little to no affect on carbon buildup. If "professional" quality BG induction technique doesn't make a dent in the buildup, then sucking seafoam through the IAT sensor port is a waste of time. Granted, we have no idea how those valves would look minus the BG service, but they still look pretty choked. 
Seafoam doesn't get misted into the intake track, and probably just rolls along the surface of the manifold until it reaches the cylinder. 
The engineer that decided weaping valve stem seals was a good idea should be ****ing shot...


_Modified by rhouse181 at 1:53 PM 4-1-2010_


----------



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
I'm fairly convinced that induction services have little to no affect on carbon buildup. If "professional" quality BG induction technique doesn't make a dent in the buildup, then sucking seafoam through the IAT sensor port is a waste of time. Granted, we have no idea how those valves would look minus the BG service, but they still look pretty choked. 
Seafoam doesn't get misted into the intake track, and probably just rolls along the surface of the manifold until it reaches the cylinder. 


the only way to prove this is borescope before and after a BG induction service. Frankly i think its allot more effective then seafoam... but by far not a perfect solution.


----------



## Mustang7302 (Mar 25, 2010)

What is a "BG" service?


----------



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (Mustang7302)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mustang7302* »_What is a "BG" service?

http://www.bgprod.com/products/fuelair.html


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

Those are some gross looking valves. Is the breather hose still connected to youR intake mani?


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi)*

I have the block off plate.


----------



## SuckSquishBangBlow (Apr 5, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (Runin2Rich4FSi)*

Would a thicker oil cut down on the valve weep? Also, how hot do these intake valves get? Could one cut down on these deposits by using an oil like Amsoil or Redline which has a very high flashpoint?


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (SuckSquishBangBlow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SuckSquishBangBlow* »_Would a thicker oil cut down on the valve weep? Also, how hot do these intake valves get? Could one cut down on these deposits by using an oil like Amsoil or Redline which has a very high flashpoint? 

I thought the same thing. So I began to use 0W50 oil. Car has minimal build up. I had pics up a while ago. My valves look damn near perfect.


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (SuckSquishBangBlow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SuckSquishBangBlow* »_Would a thicker oil cut down on the valve weep? Also, how hot do these intake valves get? Could one cut down on these deposits by using an oil like Amsoil or Redline which has a very high flashpoint? 

Wow good questions and would take forever to answer completely. Basically ester-based oils should help due to natural lower volatility, shear stability (less viscosity index improvers), and cleaning ability. But oil alone won't solve the problem. To what extent it can help, we need testing to determine that IMO.
Here is an example of coking deposit testing for different types of oil. PAO is the primary type used in M1 and almost all the typical 502 oils. Compare to the POE results (Polyol ester). We know from Vws patent that portions of the valves can reach up to 380 degrees C. This is one reason I use POE ester-based oils, although we don't really know how much ester content the POE oils have.










_Modified by saaber2 at 10:53 PM 4-1-2010_


----------



## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (saaber2)*

I wonder how the plates in the intake ports affect the cleaning solvents? maybe they don't allow the solvents to reach the upper valve stem. The upper portion of the valve stems are nasty but the lover valve is ...ok not great.


----------



## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

BG Service does nothing to our cars.... 
P.S.Those valves look disgusting!


----------



## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: My Intake valves with 59K and occasional BG service (B3sat16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B3sat16v* »_BG Service does nothing to our cars.... 
P.S.Those valves look disgusting! 
You're right.
I'd say those valves look pretty good, had they not been cleaned at all for 50k.
They look just like mine did @45k, but all I did was some seafoam a couple times.
The 3rd cyl pic looks pretty good though


_Modified by blackvento36 at 9:12 PM 4-3-2010_


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdotA3mike* »_
the only way to prove this is borescope before and after a BG induction service. Frankly i think its allot more effective then seafoam... but by far not a perfect solution. 

this video?
http://www.vimeo.com/3989681
of course someone will say, of course things will look nice before/after, they are selling a product/service after all


_Modified by GT17V at 10:33 PM 4-3-2010_


----------



## tdotA3mike (Feb 5, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
this video?
http://www.vimeo.com/3989681

of course someone will say, of course things will look nice before/after, they are selling a product/service after all



i don't believe marketing hype... i meant if it was done independently by one of us. Before getting BG service done check the state of the valves then right after BG service.


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (tdotA3mike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdotA3mike* »_
i don't believe marketing hype... i meant if it was done independently by one of us. Before getting BG service done check the state of the valves then right after BG service. 


why not put your money where your mouth is? Go get a boroscope (or find a shop), get the BG service done, then post the before/after pics


----------



## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (GT17V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GT17V* »_
why not put your money where your mouth is? Go get a boroscope (or find a shop), get the BG service done, then post the before/after pics
Right, so he's gonna invest money on an expensive boroscope with a small enough head to fit into a spark plug socket. Then he's gonna spend money on a BG service that he doesn't believe in just to prove you wrong?








The burden of proof is usually on the advocates, not the naysayers


----------



## GT17V (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (blackvento36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blackvento36* »_Right, so he's gonna invest money on an expensive boroscope with a small enough head to fit into a spark plug socket. Then he's gonna spend money on a BG service that he doesn't believe in just to prove you wrong?








The burden of proof is usually on the advocates, not the naysayers 

some naysayers can never be satisfied.
buying a borescope that fits into a spark plug socket doesn't prove a point, anyway.
As suggested earlier, why not find a indy VW/Audi shop that can do the before/after pics.


----------



## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (GT17V)*

we have a strap-on aka snap on boroscope at work. There is no way to take screen shots etc on it. I can simply post my findings........and its not like anyone will believe what I say without pics or video's. When I get around to it if the BG service does anything I will post about it. I'm sure it helps with a non direct injection engines carbon buildup. I think its probably more like trying to put out a house fire with a garden hose







when used on a direct injections carbon buildup. 
I figure why not, as I have 2 BG services that I was given and the boroscope and BG/MOC induction tool are shop equipment. It will cost me some drinks or my wifes banana bread LOL....ill post up when i do it. Im waiting for my next oil service and I only drive 8k a yr lol......


_Modified by RABIDRABBIT1983 at 11:24 PM 4-4-2010_


----------



## gtiguy12 (May 22, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (RABIDRABBIT1983)*

I have a video boroscope that's capable of digital pictures/video. If there is anyone in the phoenix area that want's to do a before/after of a certain cleaner, i would love to have a beer and see the results.


----------



## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (gtiguy12)*

You're doing 10k oil change intervals on a car with an upgraded turbo? how does the oil come out? the most I let it go for is 5k, but i try to change it at 3k always.


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (LEWXCORE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LEWXCORE* »_You're doing 10k oil change intervals on a car with an upgraded turbo? how does the oil come out? the most I let it go for is 5k, but i try to change it at 3k always.

so far no negative effects have been seen. As per blackstone I should be changing my oil every 8k, but I always end up being lazy and putting it off till 10K.


----------



## jeremy_matrix (Nov 13, 2006)

Runin2Rich4FSi said:


> This is how my valves look at 59K.
> BG service done 1000 miles ago. First BG service was done @ around 25K, then 40K, then 50K and now at 58K.
> No Catch Can ever.


Any further updates on this?

I assume the BG services that were performed were the conventional induction services?

If you haven't heard yet, BG has some new technology out for the direct injection's called Gasoline Direct Injection Intake Valve Cleaning (#271/272). This is a soaking method.

From their press release;

"BG PRODUCTS OFFERS CLEANUP SOLUTION FOR GDI ENGINES

WICHITA, Kan.–June 3, 2010 –BG Products, Inc., announces the new BG Gasoline Direct
Injection Cleaner, Part Nos. 271 and 272. BG’s two-part chemical process quickly softens
and disperses baked-on deposits, which accumulate on the intake valves of gasoline direct
injection (GDI) engines.

The GDI engine has notable advantages over indirect injection such as more precise
injection timing, better fuel economy, complete combustion, more efficient intake and
higher compression ratio. However, GDI engines are also prone to early deposit buildup on
the piston surface, intake ports and valves. As early as 20,000 miles, deposits in GDI
engines can cause dramatic efficiency losses and low-mileage misfire codes.

BG’s Gasoline Direct Injection Cleaner and Gasoline Direct Injection Service Tools, Part
No. 9060, eliminate deposits without complete disassembly that’s typically required to
remove heavy deposits in GDI engines.

The GDI engine has been considered the best engine on the market today. With BG’s
solution to early deposit buildup, that claim will ring true. BG field research has shown
preventive maintenance, with BG 44K® and BG MOA® at each oil service, can prevent
deposit buildup in GDI engines.

BG Products, Inc., is dedicated to making vehicles last longer and perform better. In
partnership with an international network of distributors, BG serves the driving public with
innovative products and proven programs of automotive maintenance. In a recent national
survey, dealerships said they use BG Products as their supplier of fluid maintenance service
products and equipment by a margin of nearly 3 to 1 over any other supplier, including
Ford, GM, Toyota and Honda.

To find your local BG Distributor, go to www.bgprod.com/distloc."

HTH,
Jeremy


----------



## baker001 (Jun 7, 2006)

So is it best just to get water-meth?


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

holy bump batman. I havent looked at my valves in a while. I wish I could have a look at them without removing so much stuff. I might have the cleaned soon by conglomeratedgti. we shall see.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

baker001 said:


> So is it best just to get water-meth?


Water meth doesnt clean valves or keep them clean


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

and neither does gasoline getting sprayed on them.... right? cuz its the same concept.

ill have to get my hands on a borescope that can take pics... mine are spotless still.


----------



## Runin2Rich4FSi (Sep 18, 2007)

I bet you that my valves actually look better than they did @ 59K without doing any BG service or manual cleaning. I might have to take off my intake mani just to have a look.


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

Krieger said:


> and neither does gasoline getting sprayed on them.... right? cuz its the same concept.
> 
> ill have to get my hands on a borescope that can take pics... mine are spotless still.


You do realize that your water meth system only sprays when it's in boost right? And that none of the water meth systems spray on valves like a port fuel injector does....(once every 2 revolutions of the crank). :facepalm:

Oh well, keep on running a 93 octane program with 87 in the tank and water meth. :facepalm:


----------



## lionel2341 (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm surprised no one has come up with a way to mist seafoam or BG into the intake manifold on DI engines. Would it not work as our older FI engines??? in keeping the valves cleaner??


----------



## bificus99 (Aug 2, 2008)

http://www.seafoamsales.com/sea-foam-spray.html
This...


----------



## lionel2341 (Jan 3, 2005)

No what I mean is a method to inject seafoam or BG under pressure into the intake manifold to create a mist that will be sucked into the valve cavity to clean them while driving. In other words shoot a mist thru a vacuum intake port that can be controlled from inside the car with a small push button. it could be setup similar to a catch can where the seafoam or BG liquid is poured into and then pressurized via a pump to provide the mist while driving.


----------



## piston (Oct 17, 2008)

rhouse181 said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_This does make you wonder if frequent (say every5k) seafoam treatments would have been just as effective or possibly more effective... (not that either methhod is effective enough overall).
> 
> _Modified by saaber2 at 11:49 AM 4-1-2010_
> 
> ...


Frequency between cleanings could make a difference.
Perhaps doing SF every 3K miles from when the car is new could resist build up or clean it off since heavy build up has not occurred.
I believe that if you wait to long to start your cleaning treatments, it's too late. The build up has already occured to the point that mist cleaning is not going to impact the build up.

I started SF treaments at 10K and do them every 5K at oil change.
I guess I'll find out in the future if this was soon enough.


----------



## _leo_ (May 21, 2005)

has anyone ever tried using acetone, over seafoam or BG?

most fuel treatments for cleaning injectors and fuel systems often have acetone or soem other alchohol based solvents in them and often do a great job of breaking up tar and varnish. also most piston cleanings are done with a soft green brush pad and acetone, so removing carbom from the valve shouldn't be to difficult 

since we can't really used these treatments to clean our valves deposits i would wonder how it would do just using it like we would use seafoam, or is maybe we could mix acetone and seafoam to make a combination cleaner


----------



## Rogerthat (Oct 23, 2005)

Good in info in this thread. :thumbup:


----------

