# New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kenetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit.



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit.*

Just start reading












_Modified by tim frame at 10:41 PM 3-13-2005_


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (tim frame)*

Further


_Modified by tim frame at 10:41 PM 3-13-2005_


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (tim frame)*

'general' posts never get answered as everything has already been discussed on the forum already. It sounds like you have some info already, and have some specific questions.
Ask those questions and you'll get some attention. But vague posts never get replied to.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

doesn't this kit use a T3 turbine? 
f' that on a vr


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## MKippen (Nov 6, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_doesn't this kit use a T3 turbine? 
f' that on a vr

i agree, i believe it uses a t3/t4 - which would be pushing it if your looking for even 300+hp


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## PinoyVR6 (May 24, 2003)

*Re: (theflygtiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theflygtiguy* »_
i agree, i believe it uses a t3/t4 - which would be pushing it if your looking for even 300+hp
 Yes your right about the turbo..


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## KineticMotorsport (May 30, 2003)

300+ pushing it????????
Strange the SAME turbo on a rb25det motor pushed out 490 to the wheels......
We chose the turbo because it is easily 400hp capable
Garrett rates it at 500, but hey what do they know?
There's lots of different t3/t4's available, please don't make assumptions about what we use.


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (KineticMotorsport)*

Now we are getting somewhere








Can we breakdown the kinetic kit as well as others and explain what exactly makes one better than another, in terms of turbo size, construction, internal w/g, external w/g, etc.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

instead of bitching us out, why don't you tell us what you use.
lol. 
I still say a t3 flange is the wrong turbo for a vr6, you should have started with a straight t4 giving plenty of room to grow. 
you should knock it off if your thinking your so big and bad making 490 to the wheels on an rb25. Wait... let me check... mmmk yup thats right 500whp is no big deal with that motor. 
lol


_Modified by fast_a2_20v at 12:38 AM 10-19-2004_


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## KineticMotorsport (May 30, 2003)

First of all no bitching here....
it was just stated that 300+ is not possible with our turbo, and it's too small (same turbo on a 7M supra 415whp) No bragging, just facts that the turbo is capable
Too small to run 10's, yes but this isn't a drag racer's kit, For those of you that want to go custom, buy a Bigger badder turbo. (It still bolts to our manifold)

As for why did we choose it?
Simple, drivability. (who wants the fun to start at 5k?)
PM the guys who've posted they actually have one on their car and ask somebody who actually spenty the money what they think.
(I don't expect you to believe what I say due to the fact I have a biased opininion )
Area under the curve is what makes the car fun to drive. 
By choosing a larger T3 hotside we maximize spool up without impeding too much flow
The average guy isn't looking even at making 400whp, because to do it reliably requires a lot of $$$$$
This turbo kit is aimed at the average person and the turbo itself is still capable of making decent numbers, if you so choose to upgrade your motor etc. You don't necessarily have to buy another turbo but instead turn up the boost and have at it.
The turbo we chose is a modified to4E 60trim in a .60 cover with a stage III wheel in a .63a/r
If there are any other questions I will do my best to answer them.
As for why do we think our kit is best?
We think it's the best kit for the average person looking for a decent power adder at a reasonable price. 
There's not much else at this price point that will offer this level of performance.
For those of you who think it's not enough, no problem call us up and we'll set you up with the stuff you need to make the power you want.
Thanks
[email protected]


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (KineticMotorsport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KineticMotorsport* »_
As for why did we choose it?
Simple, drivability. (who wants the fun to start at 5k?)
PM the guys who've posted they actually have one on their car and ask somebody who actually spenty the money what they think.
(I don't expect you to believe what I say due to the fact I have a biased opininion )
Area under the curve is what makes the car fun to drive. 
By choosing a larger T3 hotside we maximize spool up without impeding too much flow


Most guys in here with VR's run .58 exhaust housings with P trim turbine wheels, some even complain of them spooling too quick. What hotsides do you run on yours? A T3 .63/3 should spool faster than a .58/P, but to say that fun won't start till 5k is pushing it...


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

thats fair
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
when does the kit for the crazy people come out


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## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

Here is a pro:
C2 fueling kit.
Con:
No intercooler
Would I buy one if I already didn't have a turbo VR....hell yes.


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## 4cefed (Sep 1, 2002)

*Re: (J Dubya)*

MY friend shorty has the kinetic kit on his VR and im very impressed with it. very clean, very stealthy. 277whp at like 8psi or something, no intercooler. And quite affordable. Ive seen kinetics quality first hand and it is second to none. Them guys know their s**t


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## 89_16v (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: (4cefed)*

the kinetic kit supposedly has no nuts, bolts or whatever for the instal... its missing a bunch of things i heard...


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (89_16v)*

This thread is great, in my opinion so far http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif thanks fellas for the input. Other areas of concern to me are:
1. Construction of DP
2. Internal W/G or external
3. Detonation (with no IC)
lets keep this rollin


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

also how wide is boost thru the rpm band?
I have heard something like 1600rpms


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: (89_16v)*

_the kinetic kit supposedly has no nuts, bolts or whatever for the install... its missing a bunch of things i heard... _ 
Are turbo kit comes with all the nuts and bolts needed for the kit i.e. new exhaust manifold nuts, bolts for the turbo and bolts for the waste gate. If we are missing a bunch of parts please tell me what, and the person that told you this. Any one that ACTUALLY has the kit on there car will tell you just how complete it is. 
_This thread is great, in my opinion so far thanks fellas for the input. Other areas of concern to me are:
1. Construction of DP
2. Internal W/G or external
3. Detonation (with no IC)
lets keep this rollin 
_ 
1. It is made out of thick wall Stainless Steel and Tig welded
2. The kit comes with a Tial 38mm external W/G 
3. We have had no detonation with the kit as its only running 7psi of boost and does not produce high inlet temps. If you would like to run higher boost you will need an intercooler. 
We have made this kit to be an inexpensive way to reliably turbo your VR6. We could have made a $5000 kit that will give you 350-400whp but we wanted to give people that did not want to spend $5000 to be able to get a turbo kit that is top quality. 
_also how wide is boost thru the rpm band?
I have heard something like 1600rpms _ 
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c...o.pdf
Looks like alot more than 1600rpm to me.



_Modified by [email protected] at 8:58 AM 10-19-2004_


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

Non intercooled is fine. 
what grade stainless 304 or 316 321 what? 
16g 18g sch 10 sch 40... Log? collector? whats up.


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

Very nice kit. 1 question though, why does the boost steadily raise like a supercharger towards redline? Shouldnt it hit max boost around 3k rpm and hold it till redline? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## animal1 (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_Very nice kit. 1 question though, why does the boost steadily raise like a supercharger towards redline? Shouldnt it hit max boost around 3k rpm and hold it till redline? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 i was just going to ask the same thing.
hope to get your kit soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tropicorange20v (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (KineticMotorsport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KineticMotorsport* »_
By choosing a larger T3 hotside we maximize spool up without impeding too much flow
The turbo we chose is a modified to4E 60trim in a .60 cover with a stage III wheel in a .63a/r


I really don't think you should be comparing what a turbo does on one motor vs. what it does on another motor. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
I think its funny you consider a stage 3 in a .63 cover a large T3 turbine, especially on a 2.8 liter. I would think running no intercooler on your kit, you would have chosen something larger that causes less back pressure and further reduces the chance of detonation.


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (tropicorange20v)*

how would you increase the boost, if possible? is it something that I don't understand.


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Increase boost with a different spring or boost controller. You need to make sure their fueling supports it and also I wouldnt go much higher without an intercooler and stock compression. Im driving a 01 MK4 Jetta now and it would be an all around rocket with boost from 3k up. Props to Kenetic for making an affordable reliable kit. Maybe a waste of time for the boost junkies out there though







.


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## procket2_8 (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*

Kinetics kit is the sh*t, so is their manifold! I wish I had a MkIII so I could buy their kit, but I have a Mkiv. C2 software is awesome as well! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (KineticMotorsport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KineticMotorsport* »_As for why do we think our kit is best?
We think it's the best kit for the average person looking for a decent power adder at a reasonable price. 


This is the exact reason why i'm saving my loonies!! 
My Profile: Average Joe owns low KM's VR, Wants to get into FI but wants to start off with reasonable boost, Nice way to gain education on FI for larger projects later...
This kit can easily be upgraded later with Kinetic FMIC KIT (soon to be in production i've heard), Lowered Compression (C2 can hook that up), and C2 StgII Fueling Kit. 
This kit also allows one to put money towards building up the ride to handle this power, ie: LSD, Clutch Kit, Brakes, etc...
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by UberMike at 3:27 PM 10-20-2004_


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (UberMike)*

Your replys have answered most, if not all of my questions http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanks fellas


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## PinoyVR6 (May 24, 2003)

*Re: (tim frame)*

TTT this is getting very interesting http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tropicorange20v (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (KineticMotorsport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KineticMotorsport* »_
We chose the turbo because it is easily 400hp capable
Garrett rates it at 500, but hey what do they know?
There's lots of different t3/t4's available, please don't make assumptions about what we use.


Correction, Garrett rates the COMPRESSOR as being capable of 500hp, not this exact compressor/turbine combination. There is no way you are going to make 400hp using that turbine on a VR6. The delta p would be well into the negatives and it would be a haven for detonation.
I'm not knocking your kit. As you stated it is targeted at a specific market. Just trying to straighten some facts.


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## King (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_
This is the exact reason why i'm saving my loonies!! 
My Profile: Average Joe owns low KM's VR, Wants to get into FI but wants to start off with reasonable boost, Nice way to gain education on FI for larger projects later...

_Modified by UberMike at 3:27 PM 10-20-2004_


We're in the same boat man. If I wanted 300+ WHP, I don't think I'd want it in an FWD application (yes, I've been in/driven such a car). I don't have the time or patience to own a car that is a science project, I just want to fire it up and blast off. 
For what this kit is priced at, and what it is capable of, the only thing I wonder is why bother supercharging your car and paying more ?


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## mk3boy (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: (Mr King)*

enough of this and that.
When will the mk4 vr6 kit be ready!!! My vr is sleeping waiting for it to be mounted


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## jackson3836 (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_Very nice kit. 1 question though, why does the boost steadily raise like a supercharger towards redline? Shouldnt it hit max boost around 3k rpm and hold it till redline? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 i would also like to know the answer to this...with that t3 turbine full boost should come quick....


_Modified by jackson3836 at 1:36 AM 10-21-2004_


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (Mr King)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr King* »_We're in the same boat man. If I wanted 300+ WHP, I don't think I'd want it in an FWD application (yes, I've been in/driven such a car). I don't have the time or patience to own a car that is a science project, I just want to fire it up and blast off. 

Totally agree http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Moderate boost in a safe application that will make a few heads turn and go "what the fajooly is in that Golf "








If I wanted to go Uber Fast and hit 150mph I would buy a Motorcycle


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: (theflygtiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theflygtiguy* »_
i agree, i believe it uses a t3/t4 - which would be pushing it if your looking for even 300+hp

i made 311wheel with my t3t4 54 trim.........


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (bretter)*

I just received mine in the mail today... can't wait to get it installed.
FYI - I got the kit from C2Motorsports (certified Kinetic distributor), who I've had excellent experience with! As I'm sure many have heard, they are excellent. If you have any questions that I can't answer, shoot them an email/IM.
The kit is very complete, they did an excellent job. It seems very well thought out, and I imagine it will be super simple to install.
My plan is to run it at the 6/7 psi for a short while, then run it at 9psi from then on. I ran 11psi on stock VR with C2's fuel kit and S/C setup, and never had any problems (it dyno'd at 265whp with belt slippage). My VR is totally stock, and has 106K miles on it, so it will be intersting to see how it does.
Here are a couple of pics of the kit (nothing really new though if you've seen their website). I got the complete kit with gaskets, oil pan, etc.


























_Modified by beetlevdubn at 8:23 AM 10-22-2004_


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

Cool! Keep us up to date on the progress


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## animal1 (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (UberMike)*


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## animal1 (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_Very nice kit. 1 question though, why does the boost steadily raise like a supercharger towards redline? Shouldnt it hit max boost around 3k rpm and hold it till redline? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

anybody?


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## Apollyon318 (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Oh man..... That looks good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Tell me they included some kinda instructions.. Haha


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Apollyon318)*

Yes, Kinetic includes their instructions for the main part of the setup, and C2 also includes their fuel kit instructions... as I said, it seems pretty complete.
I'll be taking pictures and making notes of the installation, and I'll post them here or in my VR Cabrio thread going on in the mk3 forum.... here's a link:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1332993
I'm probably at least 2 weeks from being able to install it, but will keep you posted.
One other note, I'll probably upgrade the DV to a Forge unit, they are serviceable, and more precise, but the TT DV that they include in the kit is still a quality unit that won't have any issues. I'm doing it for aesthetics as well as my own quirckyness (just because).
Anyone know where you can get springs for the TIAL wastegate? I know that I could go boost controller, but until I get an IC, I'll probably just change the spring.


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 8:39 AM 10-22-2004_


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Dude, keep your turbo install in this thread!! The other thread is uber 10 pages!!!


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## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (UberMike)*

If you want to can you replace the dv with a bov or will not ft?


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (tallicagolf)*

You can, but then you are dumping metered air out of the system, and it will affect your driveability. I'm pretty sure that it will throw a code, just not sure what it throws. I've heard guys dumping their Wastegates out to atmosphere, but I heard that is really loud.


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_Very nice kit. 1 question though, why does the boost steadily raise like a supercharger towards redline? Shouldnt it hit max boost around 3k rpm and hold it till redline? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Depends on the size of the turbo in relation to the size of the motor. If its "properly" size (obviously open to interpretation) then power delivery is virtually seemless. The VR has enough torque to make everything smooth...at least this is my understanding of how it all works. And all these people complaining about 400hp this and 500hp that....did you honestly think a company would offer that amount of power at such a price?







If you want a FMIC, larger turbo, etc, etc....go to schimmel performance, Im sure he would be more than happy to help ya out...same for EIP.
Oh, but wait, EIP _had_ so iffy service in the past, so you'll stay away...and then schimmel, well you will complain hes too expensive...so what does that leave you? Buy all the parts yourself, because ull save money (apparently) and then you'll start realizing that ure missing this bolt, and things dont line up, and then, your past $2500. So where are we now? back at kinetic.
For the price and for the components included...there are absolutely NO cons to this kit. No intercooler? emmm...VF doesnt have one either, do they? You can safely run up to 10lbs of boost on a VR with the proper fueling, so 6/7psi wont hurt it in the slightest.


_Modified by KrazeeKorrado13 at 1:44 AM 10-23-2004_


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## SLYWABT (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

conrgats on the purchase...I am looking forward to doing one soon as my Project is near completion.....
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

YOYO


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## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_You can, but then you are dumping metered air out of the system, and it will affect your driveability. I'm pretty sure that it will throw a code, just not sure what it throws. I've heard guys dumping their Wastegates out to atmosphere, but I heard that is really loud.

Um how would you throw a code if you run a bov instead of dv, i thought that was only 1.8t problem?


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (tallicagolf)*

The main idea behind a BOV is that it dumps air to atmosphere. I suppose it is possible to recirculate air from a BOV back into the intake system to avoid the loss of metered air, but it defeats the purpose of having a BOV. The problem exists for any fuel management system that recirculates air that is metered (1.8T, VRT, etc.).
For the most part it should run ok with a BOV, but its going to run better recirculating the metered air back into the system.


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_Dude, keep your turbo install in this thread!! The other thread is uber 10 pages!!!









EXACTLY
Make this thread chock full of turbo information, for us newbies


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Almost 1000 views, but lacking information








Lets keep it moving Fellas


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## Euro_Parts (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Check out Nater's post in the FAQ may be of some use on the install but ANY walkthroughs are of use to us all.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
PassatG60 putting a great kit together for me but the Kinetic looks a great option, guess it depends on the goal/$$$
Like it was also mentioned saving on the initial turbo kit and doing 8psi or so and spend more $$£ on uprating the rest of the car, axles, brakes etc.
No point in having more power than the car can put down or stop!!
I've gone custom with PassatG60 & it's been a long haul but got the kit tweaked to exact requirements... hey but if you have a budget.. forget it always moe shiney things to add on....








Great thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Euro_Parts)*

PassetG60 contacted me via IM and told me of his kit. He also answered a lot of questions for me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif So he is definately an option for me as well. He also made me aware of a few shortcomings of the kinetic kit.








Is he advertising a price for his kit yet?
If so, is it as complete as the kinetic kit, down to every last nut and bolt?


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## Euro_Parts (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Passat G60 does not offer a 'kit' as yet but has offered me options and we have worked out a solution to suit my budget. I would suggest searching around the vortex for previous posts on VR6 kits.
PassatG60 has spent a LONG time with my order and has replied to ALL of my concerns and questions however small.
I have had no dealings with anyone else so unable to coment.
Shipping is quick.
No hassles.
As for Kinetic, yep looks a good price & their site is informative http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (tim frame)*

I think that its important to note that no matter what "kit" you are looking at purchasing, some people with specific needs will always be able/willing to point out "shortcomings" or "areas that could use work" (In their opinion). That' why ATP and people like PassatG60 are around.
Whenever a company makes the decision to make a kit for the masses, in order to keep costs in check you have to make a kit that will work for 80% of your market. There will always be that 20% that have special needs, wants to pay extra for more value, needs extra Bling Bling or Pfft, Pfft, etc. I think for the street guys (like myself), you can't beat the Kinetic kit, especially for the cost.
I helped in the development and marketing of a now popular S/C kit, and I know first hand about manufacturing costs, and the challenges associated with making a kit for the masses (not just for the handful of people with specific needs).
So, my challenge to you (and anyone else looking to put a Turbo in their VW), is to identify what your NEEDS are, and use that to make a choice between a kit like Kinetic, and a complete custom setup like PassatG60's setup. I'm sure that PassatG60's setup works very well, but I don't personally have the patience to work through all of the hassles of a custom kit, and I don't need all of the additional costs associated with vehicle upgrades that are required when going over 350 hp.
My point in all of this babbling, is that its important to anylize and understand what expectations the Kinetic kit meets.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Euro_Parts)*

BTW - What is the end cost of the Turbo setup that PassatG60 is putting in your car?


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## NJ.A4.1.8t (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

KrazeeKorrado13.... unless you've been burned by a COMPANY for thousands of dollars please dont go supporting them...EIP had huge service issue's they may have fixed them but to us people who got burned we're not going away...yea they tried to help me out got some of my problems fixed but when u get a tranny swap from auto to stick dont u think the car shouldnt get stuck in 2nd gear when its a freshly rebuilt tranny on a NA motor???? c'mon if i told u all the problems.... the feeling that u just got ripped off 8 grand and your a 20 year old who all he does work hard for his money yeah i do have a huge problem with EIP and WE WONT LET IT GO....here's my list of problem's i had
first {off the front motor mount bolt was non-existant on my corrado 
motor slamm'd into hood...took me 2 trips to maryland and about a month of call's before i could even get them to answer if they were gonna fix it... hood was shot they replaced it eventually.. i had drove 3 and a half hours to show them what had ha
second { tranny got stuck in second gear still dont really know what it was that went wrong took about 2 month's of phone calls... i hadnt even clocked 3000miles on the tranny before this happened
third { the day i had all the work done to my car (BVH,268's,lsd,tranny swap,fab'd exhaust,intake) the car overheated cause they fogot to plug the fan in








fourth { distrubuter had a ziptie hold the cap on i know the cap hadnt been broken cause i had changed it when i bought the car....350bucks outta my pocket
fiifth { at the time i was a newb to dub's didnt know much ripped me off for numerous other hundred dollar items...witch were either junk or not even installed...
and i would have been cool with everything if there was some honesty on there half but they just saw me as a {kid} and a easy target i woulda spent thousand's more with them...yea they fixed the only problem but for 8 grand the car shoulda been mint for the work done to it...thought i was paying for the best
dont get me wrong EIP has claimed to clean up there act... but i wont stop spreading the word until my estimated 2,000 dollar's in tow's to maryland...part's that hadnt been there and i paid for... and when i tell u i called everyday about my car i mean EVERYDAY somtimes 3-4 times a day if i couldnt get them to pick up the phone... i'm sorry but money hungrey theives is what they are and that's a trait that doesnt just go away
SORRY TO GET OFF THE POST TOPIC..but every eip comment needs to be adressed as for the kinetic kit dont knock it unless u rock it


_Modified by NJ.A4.1.8t at 2:35 AM 10-28-2004_


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (NJ.A4.1.8t)*

WOW A4 is pissed.


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (NJ.A4.1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NJ.A4.1.8t* »_KrazeeKorrado13.... unless you've been burned by a COMPANY for thousands of dollars please dont go supporting them...EIP had huge service issue's they may have fixed them but to us people who got burned we're not going away...yea they tried to help me out got some of my problems fixed but when u get a tranny swap from auto to stick dont u think the car shouldnt get stuck in 2nd gear when its a freshly rebuilt tranny on a NA motor???? c'mon if i told u all the problems.... the feeling that u just got ripped off 8 grand and your a 20 year old who all he does work hard for his money yeah i do have a huge problem with EIP and WE WONT LET IT GO....here's my list of problem's i had
first {off the front motor mount bolt was non-existant on my corrado 
motor slamm'd into hood...took me 2 trips to maryland and about a month of call's before i could even get them to answer if they were gonna fix it... hood was shot they replaced it eventually.. i had drove 3 and a half hours to show them what had ha
second { tranny got stuck in second gear still dont really know what it was that went wrong took about 2 month's of phone calls... i hadnt even clocked 3000miles on the tranny before this happened
third { the day i had all the work done to my car (BVH,268's,lsd,tranny swap,fab'd exhaust,intake) the car overheated cause they fogot to plug the fan in








fourth { distrubuter had a ziptie hold the cap on i know the cap hadnt been broken cause i had changed it when i bought the car....350bucks outta my pocket
fiifth { at the time i was a newb to dub's didnt know much ripped me off for numerous other hundred dollar items...witch were either junk or not even installed...
and i would have been cool with everything if there was some honesty on there half but they just saw me as a {kid} and a easy target i woulda spent thousand's more with them...yea they fixed the only problem but for 8 grand the car shoulda been mint for the work done to it...thought i was paying for the best
dont get me wrong EIP has claimed to clean up there act... but i wont stop spreading the word until my estimated 2,000 dollar's in tow's to maryland...part's that hadnt been there and i paid for... and when i tell u i called everyday about my car i mean EVERYDAY somtimes 3-4 times a day if i couldnt get them to pick up the phone... i'm sorry but money hungrey theives is what they are and that's a trait that doesnt just go away
SORRY TO GET OFF THE POST TOPIC..but every eip comment needs to be adressed as for the kinetic kit dont knock it unless u rock it

_Modified by NJ.A4.1.8t at 2:35 AM 10-28-2004_

dood, i know ALL about EIPs history, and for this reason I wont be going to them any time soon. I was merely comparing other options out there, some desireable, some not.
I said this *Oh, but wait, EIP had so iffy service in the past, so you'll stay away* and it is true no?
I was discounting the other options, in favor of Kinetic, crossing them off the list if you will.

_Modified by KrazeeKorrado13 at 10:55 PM 10-27-2004_


_Modified by KrazeeKorrado13 at 10:55 PM 10-27-2004_


----------



## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_I think that its important to note that no matter what "kit" you are looking at purchasing, some people with specific needs will always be able/willing to point out "shortcomings" or "areas that could use work" (In their opinion). That' why ATP and people like PassatG60 are around.
Whenever a company makes the decision to make a kit for the masses, in order to keep costs in check you have to make a kit that will work for 80% of your market. There will always be that 20% that have special needs, wants to pay extra for more value, needs extra Bling Bling or Pfft, Pfft, etc. I think for the street guys (like myself), you can't beat the Kinetic kit, especially for the cost.
I helped in the development and marketing of a now popular S/C kit, and I know first hand about manufacturing costs, and the challenges associated with making a kit for the masses (not just for the handful of people with specific needs).
So, my challenge to you (and anyone else looking to put a Turbo in their VW), is to identify what your NEEDS are, and use that to make a choice between a kit like Kinetic, and a complete custom setup like PassatG60's setup. I'm sure that PassatG60's setup works very well, but I don't personally have the patience to work through all of the hassles of a custom kit, and I don't need all of the additional costs associated with vehicle upgrades that are required when going over 350 hp.
My point in all of this babbling, is that its important to anylize and understand what expectations the Kinetic kit meets.

Its not a completely custom setup at all. Every kit can be perfectly replicated and quality assured. I don't agree w/ you on the 'hassles' associated w/ a 'custom' kit. If you want an off-the-shelf kit, I can provide off-the-shelf components, no problem. The reasons why I like to give people a choice in turbos and components, lets say, is because everyone's needs are different. If you want to go w/ more of a street vehicle, I'll work w/ you. If you want more of a street/weekend racer, I'll work w/ you. I don't skimp on components either. Every piece down to the hardware is quality. I add as much as you'd need as well as some you don't. I do push quality chargers as well, all will come w/ 360deg race bearings unless you specify you don't want it. If you want a GT Dual BB, no problem. I don't put something together and shove it in your face. If anyone has questions, I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. As for these products for the masses, to me, as far as turbo kits, there's no such thing...
As for Europarts, his initial concept turned into a full on project. He has put alot of thought into his project and is obviously planning to do it thoroughly and correctly. It started off as a basic kit which he would've already recieved by now to a thing that has been keeping me busy trying to cover every base he/we possibly can...


_Modified by passatG60 at 4:30 AM 10-28-2004_


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (passatG60)*

thanks PassatG60 for stepping in








I believe we need more opinions from different vendors http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NJ.A4.1.8t (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: (KrazeeKorrado13)*

Custom is the way i plan to goi feel its the most money effecient... take your time educate yourself...use search alot and you'll figure it out...there no such thing as out of the box when it comes to n e thing on these car's and that go's for turbo kits as well...its also good to have a go to source....so the man above maybe your guy...sorry to get fired up...also would u have to bang the firewall out a a raddo to get kenetic's mani to fit??? do they even sell just the mani?



_Modified by NJ.A4.1.8t at 5:14 AM 10-28-2004_


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## AbqVR6 (Dec 29, 2001)

*Re: (NJ.A4.1.8t)*

ok, heres an _actual question_...
if there is a MKIV kit, does that mean that there is MKIV software? does that mean there is MKIV *C2* software?
please, pretty please,
max


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## Euro_Parts (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: (passatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passatG60* »_
Its not a completely custom setup at all. Every kit can be perfectly replicated and quality assured. I don't agree w/ you on the 'hassles' associated w/ a 'custom' kit. If you want an off-the-shelf kit, I can provide off-the-shelf components, no problem. The reasons why I like to give people a choice in turbos and components, lets say, is because everyone's needs are different. If you want to go w/ more of a street vehicle, I'll work w/ you. If you want more of a street/weekend racer, I'll work w/ you. I don't skimp on components either. Every piece down to the hardware is quality. I add as much as you'd need as well as some you don't. I do push quality chargers as well, all will come w/ 360deg race bearings unless you specify you don't want it. If you want a GT Dual BB, no problem. I don't put something together and shove it in your face. If anyone has questions, I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. As for these products for the masses, to me, as far as turbo kits, there's no such thing...
As for Europarts, his initial concept turned into a full on project. He has put alot of thought into his project and is obviously planning to do it thoroughly and correctly. It started off as a basic kit which he would've already recieved by now to a thing that has been keeping me busy trying to cover every base he/we possibly can...

_Modified by passatG60 at 4:30 AM 10-28-2004_


Guys, like passatg60 says, I was in the market for a $2500-$3000 kit and the Kinettic at the time was not available, I had looked at ATP / EIP but to be honest upon lots of searching and speaking with other texers I came to the conclusion I was happy with the deal I was offered. (VERY GOOD http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) No bull, straight forward with experience to back it up identiying other areas of the system I would have to consider. The initial kit came WAY under my $3000 budget unitll I started getting boost lust....








Ultimately I made the decision to 'push' the budget up in terms of my requirement. The more I found out the more I wanted to add to a 'complete' system IMO rather than add to the system later on. (having ran a 270whp 20v mk2 already I knew my goals were beyond 300whp)
Like I said the Kinetic looks great but I am very happy with my setup and am working on the next stage .. axles.. fueling.. all of these were out of scope initially.
One of the main factors was the initial cost for say a 300whp rig that was simply $$$$ less than anything else out there.
All I can say is compare the $$$$ and contact both and make up your own mind.
PassatG60 must have sent me over 1000 IM's and always details his replies & NEVER pushes a sale, if anything I'm pushing him! lol
Best of luck guys whatever you decide to do, I know this sounds like a sales pitch but I was in the market new to VRT's, did my homework and just went for it. I'm bringing in a BIG POWER rig for EIP stage1/2 $$$ Very happy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (passatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *passatG60* »_
Its not a completely custom setup at all. Every kit can be perfectly replicated and quality assured. I don't agree w/ you on the 'hassles' associated w/ a 'custom' kit. If you want an off-the-shelf kit, I can provide off-the-shelf components, no problem. The reasons why I like to give people a choice in turbos and components, lets say, is because everyone's needs are different. If you want to go w/ more of a street vehicle, I'll work w/ you. If you want more of a street/weekend racer, I'll work w/ you. I don't skimp on components either. Every piece down to the hardware is quality. I add as much as you'd need as well as some you don't. I do push quality chargers as well, all will come w/ 360deg race bearings unless you specify you don't want it. If you want a GT Dual BB, no problem. I don't put something together and shove it in your face. If anyone has questions, I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. As for these products for the masses, to me, as far as turbo kits, there's no such thing...
As for Europarts, his initial concept turned into a full on project. He has put alot of thought into his project and is obviously planning to do it thoroughly and correctly. It started off as a basic kit which he would've already recieved by now to a thing that has been keeping me busy trying to cover every base he/we possibly can...


PassatG60, I didn't mean to imply that your kit was "completely" custom, and I'm sure that the setups that you sell can work very well. My experience with aftermarket Turbo setups is that things can work out very well if you have someone close to you to help you through the hickups and that can properly diagnose any issues (wideband, dyno, etc.), if they come up. I've tried to do stuff via IM, email, and phone conversations, and it just plain stinks.
Maybe most of the setups that you are selling don't require custom fueling or standalone, which makes everything a lot easier for the end user (just get all of the pieces that make what you need, and supply the proper fueling software... if its available). 
Standalone and custom chips, etc. have their place, but for me, in a state that is not THAT mod friendly, and because I don't have days and weeks to play with my setup to get it running perfect, I prefer to stick to something a little more "out of the box". And that was really all I was trying to establish before.... understand your "needs" before making a decision, and try not to just look at the highest HP numbers that you can get from which setup (not saying that anyone here has done that).


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## passatG60 (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_
PassatG60, I didn't mean to imply that your kit was "completely" custom, and I'm sure that the setups that you sell can work very well. My experience with aftermarket Turbo setups is that things can work out very well if you have someone close to you to help you through the hickups and that can properly diagnose any issues (wideband, dyno, etc.), if they come up. I've tried to do stuff via IM, email, and phone conversations, and it just plain stinks.
Maybe most of the setups that you are selling don't require custom fueling or standalone, which makes everything a lot easier for the end user (just get all of the pieces that make what you need, and supply the proper fueling software... if its available). 
Standalone and custom chips, etc. have their place, but for me, in a state that is not THAT mod friendly, and because I don't have days and weeks to play with my setup to get it running perfect, I prefer to stick to something a little more "out of the box". And that was really all I was trying to establish before.... understand your "needs" before making a decision, and try not to just look at the highest HP numbers that you can get from which setup (not saying that anyone here has done that).

Totally understandable and I agree w/ you 100%. That's why my initial question would be to ask what your goals are. Some ppl are looking to go much farther than others. A turbo upgrade has to be thought out and every little facet has to be taken into consideration. I mean, it's not like putting a model airpline together and the only thing expected is it to sit on a shelf or suspended from a ceiling. Its a labor of love, really. Some like to bolt on and go and run moderate power levels. Some like to tweak as much as possible and are willing to put forth the effort to realize certain goals that they have set forth for themselves. There are no real shortcuts and everything must be planned, implemented and worked with. We have an RX7 in our facility that has been gradually put together for 7 months now, no shortcuts and a whole lot of customization. It dynos at 800hp. The owner had a goal and we're steadily achieving it. Last week, we did a moderate upgrade on a 2nd gen eclipse w/ turbo upgrade, FMIC and Autronic standalone. There are those that just want a CAI put in. Its all what you want and what you're willing to do to meet your goals. If you feel that its too much, then you should reconsider doing it in the first place. IMHO, with certain budget constraints or overall willingness, you get what you put into things. That goes w/ just about every facet of our lives...


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## Euro_Parts (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: (passatG60)*

Well said... but hell I just wanna rip the ass out of some hondas!!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (Euro_Parts)*

Can we start actually talking about this kit and not the pros and cons of kits in general. 
You started getting it installed yet?


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (16volt)*

Moving into my house this weekend, so the project will start within a week or so of that. Gotta have my place setup first.


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## King (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_Moving into my house this weekend, so the project will start within a week or so of that. Gotta have my place setup first.


Where are your priorities ? The Vortex masses must be appeased....








Setting up house can wait, there's cars to be turboed.


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## Euro_Parts (Jul 13, 2004)

*Re: (Mr King)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Mr King)*

I'm with ya... was kind of thinking of setting up the beds, and telling the fam that the rest is up to them... I'll be in the garage


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## King (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_I'm with ya... was kind of thinking of setting up the beds, and telling the fam that the rest is up to them... I'll be in the garage










See ? now you're talking. Remember, more horsepower is a safety feature. You are only doing this because of your concerns for the fam's safety. Your only satisfaction is knowing how much safer they will be.


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## 16volt (Oct 26, 2000)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_I'm with ya... was kind of thinking of setting up the beds, and telling the fam that the rest is up to them... I'll be in the garage









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

every forced induction kit should have an intercooler, it doesn't have to be huge but it should be there, I would NEVER drive my car w/o one
these guys made a kit and priced it right but when you add an intercooler is it that good of a deal?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (therealvrt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *therealvrt* »_every forced induction kit should have an intercooler, it doesn't have to be huge but it should be there, I would NEVER drive my car w/o one
these guys made a kit and priced it right but when you add an intercooler is it that good of a deal?


bah. the purpose of the IC is to lower temps. Low boost setups don't make that much heat, so it's not even an issue.


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

and you know this because..........?
compressing air creates friction and therfore heat
if cooling down the air is an option then how come EVERY car with
forced induction OE has an intercooler regardless of the cost it adds
to the sticker price? I ran my first turbo kit on my vr6 6 years ago
without an intercooler for 2 weeks then i but one on. WOW, what a
difference.


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## AbqVR6 (Dec 29, 2001)

*Re: (therealvrt)*

yes, but not neccesary...


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## Krazee (Jan 26, 2003)

*Re: (therealvrt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *therealvrt* »_every forced induction kit should have an intercooler, it doesn't have to be huge but it should be there, I would NEVER drive my car w/o one
these guys made a kit and priced it right but when you add an intercooler is it that good of a deal?


I think thats another advantage of this kit. While yes, you can run without an IC, and that yes, every car manufacturer uses an IC of sorts, all of the aftermarket turbo kits give you a front mount style IC. While many of these supplied ICs work well (fitment wise) on mk2s, mk3s, mk4s, etc...there are many who dont want a front mount, or they want something different from whats included. Also, front mounts dont work behind a stock corrado bumper without many mods. Here the customer can go else where and get whatever type of IC they want...side-mount, front-mount, air/water....many more choices exist.


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (KrazeeKorrado13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KrazeeKorrado13* »_
I think thats another advantage of this kit. While yes, you can run without an IC, and that yes, every car manufacturer uses an IC of sorts, all of the aftermarket turbo kits give you a front mount style IC. While many of these supplied ICs work well (fitment wise) on mk2s, mk3s, mk4s, etc...there are many who dont want a front mount, or they want something different from whats included. Also, front mounts dont work behind a stock corrado bumper without many mods. Here the customer can go else where and get whatever type of IC they want...side-mount, front-mount, air/water....many more choices exist. 

Just as a sidebar, an FMIC will be developped for this kit once the MKIV kit is completed.
I like the base price of this kit. I can get an FMIC fabricated to suit my needs, plus i'm able to put money aside for an upgraded clutch, axles, lsd, brakes, etc...
Gotta start the madness somewhere


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (therealvrt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *therealvrt* »_if cooling down the air is an option then how come EVERY car with forced induction OE has an intercooler regardless of the cost it adds to the sticker price? 

Sorry, but you are incorrect here, Chrysler ran there early Turbo cars without IC for almost 10 years in there 2.2L and 2.5L Turbo 4 cylinder cars (Turbo 1 versions). It was not until the Turbo 2 versions that they introduced an IC (and a small one at that). Interestingling enough, they used a Garret turbo, and those engines ran very well. Chrysler was one of the pioneers in the turbo world for OEM auto manfuacturers. 
Even though I'm not a huge chrysler fan, you can see that there are no reasons that you can't run w/o an IC if you want moderate results.


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## corradofrek (Jan 16, 2004)

is there any luck there will be a 24v kit? I will take if two!


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## vertical_limit (Jul 19, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Don't forget the early Volvo, SAAB, And Porsche Turbo cars W/O OE intercoolers. Today's emission requirements, not durability, make consistant intake temps. a requirement, hence the "Need" for an intercooler.


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## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: (corradofrek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corradofrek* »_is there any luck there will be a 24v kit? I will take if two!

No we are not planing on making a 24v kit.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

whats this i hear about the super special top secret turbo just being a t3 stg 3 / e 57 trim?


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

regarding the recirculated air that was mentioned earlier in the thread. This is something that the C2 fuel kit ... requires. The reasoning behing the air being recirculated is for one the issue of venting metered air. If you simply vent metered air into the atmos. then the air that gets to the engine is not the same amount that the MAF measured and is not the same amount of air that the ECU has supplied fueling for. With the air recirculated the Air/fuel ratio is maintained by Atwood's programming in the C2 fueling kit. That is ONE of the reasons why the C2 kit is so nice, it allows the computer to operate under what the ECU sees as stock conditions. 
reason 2 for recirculated air rather than atmos venting. The air is recirculated into the compressor intake, this aids in pre-spooling the turbo... which reduces lag. Find someone who has the C2 kit correctly installed and you'll find that there's very little lag that is experianced.
There was a comment made about a CEL code being thrown... you will ... because of the oversized MAF sensor that comes with the C2 fueling kit, the ECU reads the air as those that are experianced at stock configuration and sends a pulse width signal to the injectors that have also been upsized proportionally to the MAF and therefore provide the right amount of fuel for the airflow provided. Here's the rub... the O2 sensors aft of the engine also meter the amount of air flowing from the engine... this being the case if the O2 sensors were connected then they would see that WAY more air is coming out of the exhaust than is "going into the engine" and would cause the ECU to try to resolve the issue ... but what ever means it would have to do that ... the result would be bad tho... SO the rememdy is to disconnect the O2 sensors and not allow the ECU to recieve those signals ... without signals coming from the O2 sensors the ECU sees that something is wrong and lights the CEL light ... so you WILL have a CEL light on ... 
regarding the turbocharger ... recently I decided to call Kinetics and speak with them about turbocharger options ... when I found out that they were using a hybrid turbo on a vr6 my response was much the same as some of those here... "The heck ... a straight t4 would flow so much better and allow for a higher ceiling in the end" The person I was speaking to agreed with me... but went a step further to explain that in the efforts to maintain cost the t3/t4 that was chosen provided a better price when kinetic looked in to purchasing bulk turbochargers for their kit. The straight t4's would have been a good bit more expensive and there by would have increased the cost of the kit. Obviously, kinetic had a price point that they wanted to hold to so that was a justifiable expense.
peace.


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## volcomvw (Dec 26, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_Sorry, but you are incorrect here, Chrysler ran there early Turbo cars without IC for almost 10 years in there 2.2L and 2.5L Turbo 4 cylinder cars (Turbo 1 versions). It was not until the Turbo 2 versions that they introduced an IC (and a small one at that). Interestingling enough, they used a Garret turbo, and those engines ran very well. Chrysler was one of the pioneers in the turbo world for OEM auto manfuacturers. 
Even though I'm not a huge chrysler fan, you can see that there are no reasons that you can't run w/o an IC if you want moderate results.

Here is my logic... 
even for a low boost app, i would think an IC is necessary in a turbo system simply becuase of the fact that the turbo itself soaks up heat from the exhasut manifold (being bolted to it). Thus, no matter how much pressure you pushing through it, its always gonna get hot. if the turbo is hot, then the air through it will be hot, and who wants to force hot air into thier motor?
iam not an expert on this but thats my 2 cents, if iam way off here set me straight 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

Bump


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (UberMike)*

asdf jkl;


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## animal1 (Nov 28, 2003)

bump


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## DUBBN (Jun 23, 2001)

*Re: (animal1)*

you do not have to have a ic but it is somewhat defeating the purpose of the turbo 
you put the turbo on for more power woth out the ic you are ripping yourself off or just saven up for it


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## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

I've been running the kit for 3 weeks now. 
Pro's:
No driveability issues.
Easy to keep out of boost if your concerned about fuel economy.
Dependable.
Seamless power.
Affordable.
Full install kit for ease of installation.
I could probably keep going here but I'll stop.
Cons:
No intercooler.......
Yes it has no intercooler that's right I said it NO INTERCOOLER. That seems to be the biggest fopa everyone likes throwing out there. I'll tell you this, no intercooler on 6psi with proper fueling (C2motorsports) = NOT AN ISSUE! (Remember fueling = cooling) Get over the non intercooler, it runs just fine. The C2 Stage I chip pre-boost drives EXACTLY like my GIAC V.11 Cam chip. Which was being run previously. The idle is silky smooth with a slight bob once in a while for me as the result of my cams. The only thing you have to deal with is the CEL being on as the result of the O2 sensor being unplugged, and a small piece of electrical tape will fix that right up










_Modified by 98VR at 4:48 AM 11-13-2004_


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## slvrvnto (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (98VR)*

so bottom line is it worth it ?
or go with a vf charger


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## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (slvrvnto)*

....Are you serious? Did you read my post? LOL. Forget the VF charger.... You want a charger buy the C2 kit. The VF setup is WAAAAAAAAAAAY overpriced.



_Modified by 98VR at 6:40 AM 11-14-2004_


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_The only thing you have to deal with is the CEL being on as the result of the O2 sensor being unplugged, and a small piece of electrical tape will fix that right up










Meh, i'm sure C2 will come up with a fix for that eventually http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm down for the kit. Just have to think of an appropriate way of telling my gf that i'm spending $3k Cnd++ on my car.....again!! and not the house, haha


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Sorry for the delay... moving stinks.
Anyway, I began the Turbo installation process this weekend by removing the trans and preparing for the installation of the lightened flywheel and trans with peloquin.
Obviously having the trans out will actually give me more room as I remove the exahust header and downpipe. I skimmed through the Kenetic instructions, and it seems pretty clear, but I know that illustrations/pics in some of the areas are definately going to be helpful. My plan is to try to supplement their instructions with pics, and to also add additional documentation where needed. 
I'll keep the thread posted as I progress.


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_My plan is to try to supplement their instructions with pics, and to also add additional documentation where needed. 
I'll keep the thread posted as I progress.

That would be super helpful! I trust my mechanic, but I would trust him even more if I could give him illustrated instructions as well. 
Cheers!


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## zero666cool (Apr 17, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*

bump for some good helpful info. I'm planning to turbo my VR too and also a newbie to turbo applications, I was thinking about running 15 PSI, what does everyone recommend? the kinetic kit with some upgrades or should I talk to passatG60


----------



## Apollyon318 (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: (zero666cool)*

if you plan to run around 15 psi and have the cash to do it, go with EIP tuning.


----------



## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (Apollyon318)*

I've been running with my kit for two months now. As stated with 98VR there really isn't any "CON'S" other than not having an IC. I'm not hard on my car, even when I driven it fast,the oil temp's still remain a few degree's higher than stock.
I personally believe that if one choose to ''gas it" from every light, wait for IC to come avaiable. Just my opinion. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_
That would be super helpful! I trust my mechanic, but I would trust him even more if I could give him illustrated instructions as well. 
Cheers! 

The kit comes with detailed instructions for the install of the kit. The first few kits sold did not have any and we told every one that got the kit with out instructions to call any time for help. We also have good pictures on the web site.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Kit will be ordered in the next two weeks!!


_Modified by UberMike at 2:11 AM 11-27-2004_


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## BoomGTI83 (Oct 23, 2003)

*Re: (UberMike)*

this thread makes me want to buy this kit!...im starting to save starting...now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (BoomGTI83)*

For those of you who are getting the kit shortly, heck even at all. Post some of your first hand thoughts and if possible the ease and fit and finish of the kit after installed.
ALL INFO WILL BE APPRECIATED AND HELPFUL


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The kit comes with detailed instructions for the install of the kit. The first few kits sold did not have any and we told every one that got the kit with out instructions to call any time for help. We also have good pictures on the web site. 

Well, the instructions should include a list of parts that you should have, with a description of what each of the items is for, plus pictures, and detailed text that describes the complete installation process. The list of items/parts would have been especially helpful today, since I have at least 2 bolts that don't appear to be for anything, and I'm missing the following parts:
- 4 washers (for the downpipe flange bolts)








- 2 Wastegate to lower flange bolts








- Oil Return flange gasket
- Turbo to exhaust manifold gasket
- Turbo to downpipe gasket
That being said, the kit is very well designed, and really the only area I can see right now as a weekness, are the instructions and lack of pictures indicating how things are to be installed. Of course it can all be done with enough time and experimentation, but the pics would help people that have less experience with the VR engine.
Another area that should be explained is the heatshield (should it be used, if so, how to make it fit, etc.). I am going to modify my exhaust manifold heat shield so that it will bolt to the new turbo manifold like factory, and will post pics of how I modified it. 
I also noted that the oil feed line that is supplied, is very long. It works fine if you are going around the side of the engine, but even then it is super long. I will have another one made that is shorter, and will go under the intake manifold (between the lower intake runner and the valve cover) so that you won't see any part of it except for where it goes into the turbo. This doesn't lessen the value of the kit at all, just a personal preference I have. I'll post the length of the oil feed line once I figure out what is needed.
I also noticed an extra stainless ring/collar that came with the Wastegate, not sure what to do with that, but I think it is just supposed to be a spare part. If anyone knows for sure, please post what its purpose is (even if it isn't related to this kit).
Here are some pics of my dissassembly process today, I'll add some pics of how the fittings go into the oil filter housing, that would be very helpful (I know it was when I did the C2 S/C Installation).
Liquid Wrench is your friend, make sure you use this and let it soak for an hour or two before attempting to remove nuts and bolts (longer if you are on the east coast and have rust issues):








Use Threadlock on the studs for the turbo to exh manifold:








As you can see, my oil filter housing is leaking, I am obviously going to replace the o-ring seal, but I would encourage anyone that is doing this installation to replace the seal, it is just too much work to develop a leak later on, plus it is much easier to install the oil feed line with the oil filter housing completely removed from the car. If you have A/C and/or air injection, I would recommend removing the core support, radiator, bumper, etc., otherwise it is a huge pain in the butt. I am also replacing all three sending units, because one of them was leaking, and I really don't want to hassle with it later on.








Here are the intake and exhaust manifold removal pics:
































So, just to clarify, this is not a bitch session, I am simply trying to point out any areas I run across that would be helpful to others that are looking to buy the kit and/or install the kit.
I'll be out of town for 9 days, so I'll have more details to post when I get back (hopefully I'll have gaskets and missing parts by then). Sorry this post is so long, but lots of info. to share.

_Modified by beetlevdubn at 2:51 PM 12-4-2004_


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 8:59 AM 12-5-2004_


----------



## Apollyon318 (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Great pics and info!


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_
So, just to clarify, this is not a bitch session, I am simply trying to point out any areas I run across that would be helpful to others that are looking to buy the kit and/or install the kit.
I'll be out of town for 9 days, so I'll have more details to post when I get back (hopefully I'll have gaskets and missing parts by then). Sorry this post is so long, but lots of info. to share.

_Modified by beetlevdubn at 2:51 PM 12-4-2004_

This is the exact intention of this post. Keep the info and pics coming. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobqzzi (Sep 24, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

That little ring is not a spare part!!! It is the seat for the wastegate valve and slides in the hole. Without it, the wastegate won;t work. I believe this is detailed in the instructions.
I have no direct experience with the kinetic kit, howeveer, a gasket between the turbo and manifold is not necessary, nor is one required on the downpipe. No gasket= no blown gaskets, and they seal just fine without them.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (bobqzzi)*

Ok, here are a couple of updates. First of all, the guys at Kinetic are great! They responded to my emails very quickly, and also let me know about the wastegate ring. I was just installing it upside down (idiot me). I took a couple of pics of how it goes in, just for future reference.
























Kinetic also informed me that the turbo to exhaust manifold, and oil drain flange gaskets should have been in the turbo box, and they will promptly send me one out on Monday http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for the turbo to downpipe, they recommend using muffler cement, which should work well, since the DP flange is super thick and has a machined surface.
As mentioned before, I am very pleased with the setup, and am actually ordering the 9psi wastegate spring as well, and will run that from the get go.
Thumbs up to Kinetic, I appreciate their response to my questions and concerns.


----------



## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Early Nissan 300zx turbos had T3 exhaust housings as did Grand nationals.They usually don't even bother to switch over to T4 housings till about 500hp because they don't have to.If your concerned about exhaust flow then I'm sure they could be ordered with a .82 exhaust housing.The .82 exhaust housing will outflow the T4 exhaust housing that most people use.
Under 8lbs of boost there is really no need for an intercooler.As you turn up the boost you create more heat for more compression of the gasses,then you need an intercooler.If you want an intercooler on your kit,then put one on.Its not like they are charging you for an intercooler and not sending it to you,so whats the big deal.


----------



## mk3boy (Mar 14, 2002)

*Re: (KOOTER)*

this thread is great!!! I can't wait to order my kit as soon as it comes out. It looks like a great kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_As mentioned before, I am very pleased with the setup, and am actually ordering the 9psi wastegate spring as well, and will run that from the get go.
Thumbs up to Kinetic, I appreciate their response to my questions and concerns.

Wow, 9 psi already








Will the kit handle this simply Oil Cooled or are you upgrading other areas as well?
Props to detailed and very informative pics/write up! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*

It's not about the kit's capability it's about your car's capability. There's no reason you can't bump this kit up to 14psi right off the bat, it's about preparing your engine and drive train for the boost. I've got a an 8psi spring ready to go in I'm not sure TiAL has a 9psi spring it goes 8 then 10. 8psi is about as far as I'd take it unintercooled and on stock compression with no drive train mods (clutch and LSD).



_Modified by 98VR at 1:43 PM 12-6-2004_


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Well, maybe I'll do 10 then... I'll know more tomorrow. I have an LSD and new clutch, but otherwise stock (besides the kinetic kit. I imagine 10 should be fine, but I'll see what they say tomorrow.


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Does anyone know roughly how many kits have been sold since its inception?


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (tim frame)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim frame* »_Does anyone know roughly how many kits have been sold since its inception?









Over 35 in Canada alone (Total population of 30 million people)
So maybe 250-400 in the states???


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (UberMike)*

After speaking with Jeremy this week, the spring options are as follows (or at least very close):
Included in the kit - 5.6psi (with boost creep you get about 6.5 psi)
8.9 psi - between 10 and 10.5 psi with boost creep
9.5 psi - around 11 to 11.5 psi with boost creep
I decided to get the 8.9 spring, since that should give me about 10psi. The springs are $20 each.
I know that I could just get a boost controller, but that will come later if/when I decide to get an intercooler.
I am also considering getting a water/alcohol injection kit, I've read that it works very well to reduce/elliminate heat soak, etc. Does anyone have any good recommendations of water injection kits? I know Active Autowerks sells one, but haven't looked into them yet.
I received all of my spare parts this week, so once I get back home (next week) I'll be back at it.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

The small Blue Spring is 8.70psi. I just put mine in this afternoon and the car pulls real well. You don't wanna go over the Small Blue without getting the Stage II fueling kit because you'll run lean. The car puts out a solid 8 to 8.5psi I'm not sure where that 10psi w/ boost creep number is coming from though.


_Modified by 98VR at 6:55 AM 12-12-2004_


----------



## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (98VR)*

How does the blue spring (8psi), compare to the spring that came i the kit? Is it much more noticable? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_The car puts out a solid 8 to 8.5psi I'm not sure where that 10psi w/ boost creep number is coming from though.

This was what I was told by Jeremy (I gave the numbers from memory though, so I may be off by a few tenths of a psi). As for stage 2 fueling, I can tell you that I sent fuel logs to Jeff (C2) while running 11psi S/C setup on the 30# injectors and C2 software, and I was still plenty rich. C2 does an excellent job programming their software to give us plenty of room in the fuel dept., but as you can understand, they don't want to give the absolute highest psi's that you can run before meltdown, they build in their safety margin.
That doesn't mean that you can go run 12psi w/o problems, I am just saying that there is a safety margin built in that gives us a little room.
If you aren't seeing almost 10psi, then I'll probably get the next spring as well, since that is definately the boost I want to be running.
As with the other person.... did the change to the blue spring make a noticeable difference?


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

"How does the blue spring (8psi), compare to the spring that came i the kit? Is it much more noticable?"
2psi is like 20-30HP, ya it's noticeable.
"If you aren't seeing almost 10psi, then I'll probably get the next spring as well, since that is definately the boost I want to be running."
Nope you wont see 10psi with the 8.70 (Small Blue) Spring.


----------



## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (dubsouth)*

How does the blue spring (8psi), compare to the spring that came i the kit? Is it much more noticable? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

Thanks!


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (dubsouth)*

Ummmm didn't I just answer that?


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_Ummmm didn't I just answer that?









....you are now entering the Twilight Zone...an experience of Boost and sound....
...or for the newer generation...."You are now entering the Xander Zone"....
C2


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
....you are now entering the Twilight Zone...an experience of Boost and sound....
...or for the newer generation...."You are now entering the Xander Zone"....
C2

Hey C2, how much for the Forge DV for this kit? Add more pics to your site!!


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*

" Forge DV for this kit?" 
Why?








""You are now entering the Xander Zone"...."
"I live for this Sh!t...."










_Modified by 98VR at 3:05 PM 12-13-2004_


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_
Hey C2, how much for the Forge DV for this kit? Add more pics to your site!!









Probably looking at around $125 for the Forge DV....and as for pictures....we are hoping for a totallly revamped website by Spring....Bigger, Faster, Better....oh yeah, and easier to spend money







We hope to have online purchase at that point.
C2


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

What are the benifits of that valve over the OEM one supplied by Kinetic, how much more efficiently can you possibly re-route air?


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

It is serviceable (you can add lubricant to it if it dries out, change springs, etc.), and it diverts are more precisely than the plastic counterparts.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Has anyone seen VF's? Any thought's on that one.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

The VF unit is a Forge unit (As far as I know), just rebadged. I believe that it is a 007 unit.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

HAHAHA, that's funny slap our name on it, and bump up the price $30-$40, what a bunch of jokers.


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## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (98VR)*

buddys use the 007 unit and it sucks. They hate it so bad.


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_Has anyone seen VF's? Any thought's on that one.

Before I found this kit I was heavily into getting a SC setup, and noted that VF offered a Forge DV as an upgrade to the kit that they supplied. In looking at this kit, I noticed that VF and Kinetic use the same DV and thought that a similar upgrade might be appropriate in this case. Just noting the options available. 
Can't wait to see how they solve the FMIC mystery


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## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*

"Can't wait to see how they solve the FMIC mystery"
I've got $20 on them rotating the snail back and running the piping on the top. Any takers?


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## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (98VR)*

ill bite. i say underneth.


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## Nimbusvr6 (Mar 4, 2004)

*Re: (turbojeta3)*

THIS THREAD IS AWSOME!!! Unfortunatley it has consumed my entire work day.


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
Probably looking at around $125 for the Forge DV....
C2

I'm assuming that the DV currently on the kit is from the 1.8T? correct me if i'm wrong.
What do you guys think, would it be beneficial to go with the 007 or 006 DV from Forge?
Oh yeah, is the bottom side of the DV supplied with the kit 25mm? 
Cheers


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (UberMike)*

The DV is probably from a TT 1.8t, that is what VW has been using to replace defective ones in the New Beetle, Golf, Jetta, etc. I haven't run the part number, but am pretty sure.
And yes, both inlet and outlet are 25mm.
I wanted to post an update for everyone, here are the spring options that are available for the Tial wastegate:
Small Red (comes in the kit) - 5.8psi
Small Green - 7.25 psi
Small Blue (this is the one I just purchased) - 8.7psi
Big Yellow - 10.15 psi
Big Red - 11.6 psi
Big Green - 13.5 psi
Big Blue - 14.5 psi
Account for about .75psi for boost creep, and that should give you the max numbers for these springs.
After speaking with Jeremy, he stated that with a boost controller you can typically double the boost that your spring is rated at. So, with the small Blue spring that I just got, I can use a boost controller to go up to around 17psi (of course other things need to be done to safely run at that boost level, but I wanted to pass on the capability).
I am looking at buying the Greddy Profec B Spec 2, one for boost control, but for now more importantly for boost display. Does anyone have any input about this boost controller, its ease of use (or lack thereof), etc.?


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 8:53 AM 12-18-2004_


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (ExtremeVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExtremeVR6* »_There was a comment made about a CEL code being thrown... you will ... because of the oversized MAF sensor that comes with the C2 fueling kit, the ECU reads the air as those that are experianced at stock configuration and sends a pulse width signal to the injectors that have also been upsized proportionally to the MAF and therefore provide the right amount of fuel for the airflow provided. Here's the rub... the O2 sensors aft of the engine also meter the amount of air flowing from the engine... this being the case if the O2 sensors were connected then they would see that WAY more air is coming out of the exhaust than is "going into the engine" and would cause the ECU to try to resolve the issue ... but what ever means it would have to do that ... the result would be bad tho... SO the rememdy is to disconnect the O2 sensors and not allow the ECU to recieve those signals ... without signals coming from the O2 sensors the ECU sees that something is wrong and lights the CEL light ... so you WILL have a CEL light on ... 

Well, to this point, I have a larger MAF on my Stage III (an OEM one at that) and you don't have CEL's or have to unplug anything on a VF set-up.


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_....Are you serious? Did you read my post? LOL. Forget the VF charger.... You want a charger buy the C2 kit. The VF setup is WAAAAAAAAAAAY overpriced.

_Modified by 98VR at 6:40 AM 11-14-2004_

LOL, you just gave the reason for the additional price in your previous post. You have a CEL yes, a CEL that little orange light in you dash that says your set-up is GHETTO. One of the main reasons VF's kit is a little more pricey than most is the R&D that has gone into the set-ups in the first place. Everything fits and runs just as if the factory had done it itself. If you want quality you have to pay for it.


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_As for the turbo to downpipe, they recommend using muffler cement, which should work well, since the DP flange is super thick and has a machined surface.

Muffler cement ROFLOL, your kidding right. Sounds like everthing fits just great


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

Jettset you have officially been upgraded to "ass" status. If you've got nothing constructive to say in the Kinetic topics stop posting in them.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_Jettset you have officially been upgraded to "ass" status. If you've got nothing constructive to say in the Kinetic topics stop posting in them.

Ditto that.... Take your Stage III VF setup that has no CEL light, still runs below 10 psi, and cost you the same/more than the price of your car, and make a VF post that no one cares about.


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
LOL, you just gave the reason for the additional price in your previous post. You have a CEL yes, a CEL that little orange light in you dash that says your set-up is GHETTO. One of the main reasons VF's kit is a little more pricey than most is the R&D that has gone into the set-ups in the first place. Everything fits and runs just as if the factory had done it itself. If you want quality you have to pay for it.










Jettset, if you're Stg.III VF kit was running flawlessly when you first received it then why the many calls back and forth with Nik at VF to finally get the kit right? 
http://www.vf-unplugged.net/fo...t=332
No kit runs perfectly off the bat, evolution is a natural process. You worked tirelessly with Nik, and i'm sure Kinetic is working tirelessly with their clients to overcome some of the issues that might be inherent with this kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*

" i'm sure Kinetic is working tirelessly with their clients to overcome some of the issues that might be inherent with this kit."
There are no issue's, the CEL light is a TINY anoyance that requires a small software patch which C2 has just fixed I believe.


----------



## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (98VR)*

Jeffset still keeping his great comments to himself. 

Your a class act buddy.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (turbojeta3)*

"LOL, you just gave the reason for the additional price in your previous post. You have a CEL yes, a CEL that little orange light in you dash that says your set-up is GHETTO"
Now that I actually read that it's pretty freaking funny. Are you serious? Not having a CEL isn't worth $2500+ ROF! Once you understand what the CEL is for it's absolutley not an issue. C2 just hadn't developed their software to disable the first several blocks on the O2 sensor which I'm sure GIAC has. They've been around a LOT longer than C2, give C2 a chance to finish what they've started. The CEL does NOTHING to affect the drivability of the kit IT's JUST A CEL! That's all that needs to be fixed. If you'd like to pay 2500+ for just a simple software tweak (I'm assuming that you would since that is *all* your basing your comment on) go right ahead and do so. And once again quite making comments and bashing on something you have NO experience with. Go bother another topic with your useless dribble.


----------



## King (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
LOL, you just gave the reason for the additional price in your previous post. You have a CEL yes, a CEL that little orange light in you dash that says your set-up is GHETTO. One of the main reasons VF's kit is a little more pricey than most is the R&D that has gone into the set-ups in the first place. Everything fits and runs just as if the factory had done it itself. If you want quality you have to pay for it.











You are clueless. If you came here to try to justify the substantial extra cash you spent to get less power, I wish you luck. 
Kinetic and C2 from what I can see are more than willing to back up their product with service issues, so what's your point ?


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Ok, back to the topic.... I have a note for anyone looking to add this to their car if your car has around the 100K mile mark. I am pretty keen on replacing stuff that needs it while everything is apart. So, having said that, I had my trans out to swap the closer ratio trans w/LSD and ended up replacing the following parts:
- clutch assembly
- lightened flywheel
- Rear main seal (this required removal of both timing covers, which led to the following)
- All timing chain guides, chains and tensioners
So, what started out as a simple project, for me turned into a pretty complex turbo install. I know that I could have just thrown it all back together, but I was getting seepage from the rear main, and my upper tensioner and guide were cracked. So, that was the first time setting the cam timing on a VR... didn't go too bad. I'm not saying that everyone that has close to 100K needs to do what I did, but at least inspect everything while its apart.
So, on to the turbo-related stuff... I started getting the oil feed line situation figured out, and I need to correct what I stated earlier in the thread. The longer 36" oil feed line that Kinetic provided in the kit is going to work perfectly. I thought that I could go under the intake manifold, but there isn't enough room. So, Kinetic routes their line around by the coilpack, I was routing it around the pulley end, which is why it appeared to be too long.
On to how to attach it to the oil filter housing. With my S/C setup, I used the same pieces that Kinetic sells in their kit (NPT fittings). this will work, but I hate cramming an NPT fitting into a BSP (British Standard Parallel) threaded hole (the hole that our oil switches are threaded into). So, I am going to a hydraulic shop today to try to get a BSP Tee and see if I can make it work without using teflon tape and pipe fittings. The clock rotation of the Tee is very important, and without tapered pipe fittings, it may be impossible to rotate the Tee so as to point the oil fitting in the correct direction. I'll finish my research and see if I can come up with anything.
I'll be installing the turbo and manifold this week, and will post more pictures.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

I was wondering what your were speaking of when you said the oil line was to long. As a matter of fact, I walked out to my car and stared at it and scratched my head for a minute. Good to hear you got the bugger routed ok.


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_
Ditto that.... Take your Stage III VF setup that has no CEL light, still runs below 10 psi, and cost you the same/more than the price of your car, and make a VF post that no one cares about.

LOL, you my friend should really get your head out your ass. You get what you pay for, you will find that out sooner or later. As for being more than the price of my car you have to be kidding me


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (turbojeta3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbojeta3* »_Jeffset still keeping his great comments to himself. 

Your a class act buddy. 

That's right, as a matter of fact I am a class act. I'm sorry it don't sit at work all day wasting time surfing. I have a job that takes me away for days at a time so sorry I could not respond to your insults sooner


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_"LOL, you just gave the reason for the additional price in your previous post. You have a CEL yes, a CEL that little orange light in you dash that says your set-up is GHETTO"
Now that I actually read that it's pretty freaking funny. Are you serious? Not having a CEL isn't worth $2500+ ROF! Once you understand what the CEL is for it's absolutley not an issue. C2 just hadn't developed their software to disable the first several blocks on the O2 sensor which I'm sure GIAC has. They've been around a LOT longer than C2, give C2 a chance to finish what they've started. The CEL does NOTHING to affect the drivability of the kit IT's JUST A CEL! That's all that needs to be fixed. If you'd like to pay 2500+ for just a simple software tweak (I'm assuming that you would since that is *all* your basing your comment on) go right ahead and do so. And once again quite making comments and bashing on something you have NO experience with. Go bother another topic with your useless dribble.

LOL, your insults are so far from the truth they are laughable. I was tuning dub when you were still in diapers








Ah well, I put my 2cents in, I'll let you all get back to your thread. I won't bother you anymore.
I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

You know what... I handled this wrong to begin with... please accept my apology for coming down to a level that I normally wouldn't.... 
Thanks for leaving since you have nothing positive to add to this thread.


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 7:54 PM 12-21-2004_


----------



## Apollyon318 (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

What's it matter that you have you've been tuning dubs when everybody was in their diapers? Do we all care that you're old? Better yet, does that mean that you're automatically far more experienced and have more supposed 'know-how' than anybody else? 
What's it matter that there's people who are willing to spend so much less for a great deal but live with an insignificant flaw? 
Do humanity a favor and get over yourself.


----------



## King (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
LOL, you my friend should really get your head out your ass. 

You're kidding, right ?


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (Mr King)*

"You know what... I handled this wrong to begin with... please accept my apology for coming down to a level that I normally wouldn't...."
I'm not sure why your apologizing. He made a nasty comment, I called him out on it, you agreed with me. Nothing more to it than that. You disrespect someone like that and I'll point it out to you all day long. I really don't mind







BUT back on topic, beetledubbin how do you like the lightened flywheel with the kit? Which flywheel did you go with, or did you just shave weight off the OEM one, and if so how much did you take off? 


_Modified by 98VR at 4:17 AM 12-23-2004_


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Don't get me wrong, I agree with what you said. I was PO'd at some other stuff that night and was mad at myself afterward for sinking down to his level.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

All right back on topic man. FLYWHEEL??


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (Apollyon318)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Apollyon318* »_What's it matter that you have you've been tuning dubs when everybody was in their diapers? Do we all care that you're old? Better yet, does that mean that you're automatically far more experienced and have more supposed 'know-how' than anybody else? 
What's it matter that there's people who are willing to spend so much less for a great deal but live with an insignificant flaw? 
Do humanity a favor and get over yourself.

Give it up already. Do you want to get into a flame war? I don't think that would be wise. I simply pointed out a couple of things that I thought everyone should be aware of. Instead of simply rebuting my comments, 3 of you resorted to personal attacks and insults. Move on............


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (98VR)*

Flywheel.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (98VR)*

Bump for the flywheel.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (98VR)*

beetlevdubn?


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Sorry, totally missed that part of your question in your thread....
I bought a stock flywheel that was turned down by some company (don't know who). Apparently they are pretty common, and if you look at it it looks totally factory, can't see any machine marks, etc. It's a 12lb unit, compared to the 18lb factory unit. I see many people doing the 8 lb ones, and that seems a bit crazy.
As for the oil fittings, they came in last night, and I'm picking them up tonight. I'll post pics of them tonight if possible. Getting the correct fittings that match the factory thread and avoids the need for teflon tape, is a huge plus for me. All of the kits I know of use pipe fittings because they are so close, but as mentioned before, I have had some seapage issues with pipe fittings, and once you find out how much you have to remove to get to the oil filter housing... you won't want to have to go back in to fix an oil leak.
I'll post later w/pics,


----------



## King (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_
I'll post later w/pics,

Excellent idea. Please do !


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Mr King)*

Ok, I found out that the threads aren't BSP (British Std. Parallel), so I brought all of the parts to the hydraulic shop and will have the correct fittings early next week. I'm going to try to get the turbo setup on the engine today, and will try to post some pics of that.


----------



## dcvento (Aug 1, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

i love how jetset comes into every c2 related topic and says the same damn thing. i think ur gay and really upset that ur 8 grand is f uckel when it comes to power. hes mad cause he paid all this money and all he has to say is we have a check engine light on. shiiiitt.. u crack me up bro. but its ok.. all of us c2 guys will be smoking ur ass with half the money spent bud. i guess ur the guy who likes to have all the name brand sh it instead of hauling ass. most of us boost our cars wanting to go fast ... not say i have a stage 3 with no cel. come on bro.. give the props where its needed. fuc king baby




_Modified by dcvento at 6:26 PM 12-24-2004_


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (dcvento)*

Some challenges today, but still good progress. I have the manifold installed, turbo installed, wastegate installed, and oil return line installed. Clocking the turbo and installation of the lower manifold bolts were the worst of it. It took about an hour to get the manifold totally installed.
Initially the return line appeared to be too short, but in the end, I realized that you need to put things together in a specific order and it was just the right length. Install the oil return flange/fitting onto the turbo, then install the hose onto the female barbed fitting, then install the female fitting onto the return flange of the turbo. Finally, install the fittings onto the oil pan, and last but not least, slide the hose onto the barbed fitting at the pan, and tighten both hose clamps.
Clocking the turbo required installing the intake manifold first, and a note to remember, you cannot install the manifold/turbo setup together, you need to install the manifold first, then the turbo, but before you try to install the turbo, loosen the intake housing bolts, so that it can rotate freely. I tried to drop it in with the clock-position set, and the elbow hit the wire harness plastic housing (below the rain tray). I'll get some pics of everything later (I'm sure everyone has seen pics of the Kinetic kit installed).
Challenges ahead are as follows:
- Getting the dump tube installed whith the down-pipe
- Installing the down-pipe
- Getting the oil fittings situated for the oil feed line (this may be the toughest, since I DON'T want to have to pull the front end off to fix an oil leak
Just got a set of Porsche Monoblock Boxter calipers, and TT Crossdrilled Zimmerman 12.3" rotors. 
Have a merry Christmas, I'll post pics and more details after the holidays.


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 3:01 PM 2-16-2005_


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## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Rock on man.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Ok, first of all, I have a semi-stupid question to ask. Using the following picture as a reference, do I only use the vacuum port on the manifold side of the wastegate? I assume that the other port on the end of the wastegate just remains open/unplugged? One of the pics on the Kinetic site shows only one connected.
Here is the pic on Kinetis site (too big for this thread and I'm too tired to shrink it):
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c...9.JPG








I got the fittings back from the hydraulics place. It cost me $18 in the end for one adapter from M10 metric to 1/8" NPT. This way we don't ruin the oil filter housing. You may or may not opt for this, but either way, the following pics show the angle required to clear the oil cooler and allow for the oil feed line to go up through the lower intake manifold.
























Tomorrow I will be trimming the upper manifold heatshield, and connecting the downpipe and installing the oil pressure line and oil filter housing.


----------



## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Excellent write-up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

No, you only use one vacume line on the WG, just like Kinetic has theirs. Leave the one on the top of the WG open. If you need pic's of mine let me know I'll run out with the cam and try and get what you need.


_Modified by 98VR at 8:54 AM 12-28-2004_


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Ok, some good progress today, I should be able to start the car up tomorrow, assuming that I don't hit any other snags.
The areas that I found challenging were the Silicon coupler that goes between the turbo, the throttle body, and the DV. I basically had to stretch it a bit to get it to bridge the gap between the TB and the Turbo. This is not good because silicon doesn't have good torsional stress characteristics. I contacted Kinetic to see what they thought, I should hear back from them tomorrow. In the end, it should at least allow me to get the car running. When installing this piece, you basically mess with the clock position of the inlet side of the turbo, so tightening the housing is like the last thing to do. You can't rotate it too far, because one of the housing bolts hits the oil return fitting, which won't allow you to tighten the bolt. Something to be aware of.
Here is how it looks, not sure if you can see that its a bit cocked on the TB, and a bit short on the turbo. I got a good bit on the whole hose clamp, but like I said, its a bit stretched:








The other challenge was routing the oil pressure line. Basically I found a couple of ways to do it, and ended up getting it right after the third try. I also redid my fittings on the oil filter housing.... have I mentioned that I don't want to have to take this thing apart to fix any oil leaks







.
Here are some pics of the oil filter routing, and how far I had to move the A/C lines to make sure they weren't rubbing the intake elbow that comes into the turbo.








How it routes on the top side:








This was the first attempt (didn't like it going through the coolant hose, even though I shielded the hose from the stainless line).








This is how it ended up:








I also modified the Kinetic Intake Adapter bracket (this is the piece that connects the MAF to the silicon elbow that goes into the turbo. I shortened it about 1/2 an inch and relocated the bolt hole. This seemed to help keep things in line a bit better. I'm sure things like this will be different for different cars.








Here is an almost complete intake system, I just need to cut the hoses for the DV and recirculation into the valve cover, and run the vacuum lines to control the DV and Wastegate:








Here are some pics of modifying the heatshield to work on the new turbo manifold, its pretty self-explanitory:
















I also had to move my ABS sensor harness plug from the raintray to a tad lower on the same tray. I think that most of the OBD1 cars will have this same issue, but it may be just some vehicles.








I should finish this up by saying that Kinetic has been awesome every step of the way, if I had questions, concerns, etc. I would definately do this again. It will be interesting to see how it runs tomorrow.
Oh yea, one last crappy note.... someone at our house dropped something on my Euro Core support.... right on the passengers side upper corner, and broke the tab that mounts to the fender





























Hopefully I can just clean it up and strengthen it with a little resin... at least it didn't break off completely.
Let me know if you have any questions.....



_Modified by beetlevdubn at 10:23 PM 12-29-2004_


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Don't forget about a heatshield for the turbine.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_Don't forget about a heatshield for the turbine.









I was thinking of doing that, but after talking with Kinetic, they have tons of cars w/o the additional heatshield, and no issues at all.
I asked if European Car told them why they did the shield (other than their explanation in the article), and Jeremy said that they haven't heard a word from EC.
The car it back together, just need to add coolant, swap the chip and fire it up (oils already in







).
I'll post back later,


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

I have a Q...please realize I really don't know much about this...for OBD1 coilpack engines, since C2 has obd1 software now, are obd1 owners supposed to use that chip in lieu of the split second controller/stock chip, or not? Or is the split second controller just for OBD1 dizzy engines now? Am I making sense? I tried calling Kinetic but they weren't answering the phone in the tech department and I couldn't leave a number for them to reach me at today...also, how do I tell if I have a drop-in maf? Thats all.


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## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: ('dubber)*

I think split second is out of the equation now.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_I was thinking of doing that, but after talking with Kinetic, they have tons of cars w/o the additional heatshield, and no issues at all.
I asked if European Car told them why they did the shield (other than their explanation in the article), and Jeremy said that they haven't heard a word from EC.
The car it back together, just need to add coolant, swap the chip and fire it up (oils already in







).
I'll post back later,

I've melted my throttle body, cooked through some coolant lines, and, most expensively, heated up the air distribution box that sits right behind the firewall near the turbo resulting in delaminated flap seals which prevented any airflow through the heater core. And all of this was WITH a pretty substantial heatshield around the turbine.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Marty)*

Are you running the Kinetic kit, or even the same turbo? Do you have any pics of the heatshield that you made?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_
I've melted my throttle body, cooked through some coolant lines, and, most expensively, heated up the air distribution box that sits right behind the firewall near the turbo resulting in delaminated flap seals which prevented any airflow through the heater core. And all of this was WITH a pretty substantial heatshield around the turbine.


Got the factory heat shield(s) on still? (ATP manifold)
(both the for the manifold and firewall)
no way the turbo got so hot to make the seals de-laminate, yet
the paint inside the engine bay is ~fine.... and you
had it 'shielded' as well. Whatever....
And saying crap about how EIP turbo exhaust manifold causing
steering rack failures... (when you have no real expeience with either)
Marty give us all a break and stop scarring the newbie
turbo guys...








I have ~20kmiles on my NO IC turbo'd car. My set-up is VERY
similar to Kinetic's (I just don't have the cool silicone hose)
and have NONE of the issues you describe.
I am just waiting my turn for you to begin bad 
mouthing me/my work.









Jeffrey Atwood



_Modified by Jefnes3 at 10:31 PM 12-30-2004_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: ('dubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *’dubber* »_ how do I tell if I have a drop-in maf? Thats all.


Stock on all mk3+ golf/jetta cars. (ALL of them)
look for the 4-pin connector.
re: 'stretched' silicone:
have you attempted to re-clock the compressor so as
to bring the compressor outlet a little closer to the
TB? Just thoughts

Jeffrey Atwood


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Thanks for the clarification Jeff.... BTW - I used the C2 software on the S/C stuff, and it works even better on the Turbo setup. Thanks again for such great work.
I kind of figured that Marty was exagerating a bit, especially since Kinetic said they have had no problems whatsoever.
I got it fired up tonight, it runs great except for that I have a small coolant leak by the plastic housing that holds thermo sensors. I replaced all of the plastic parts, but figure it must be that there was a little corrosion where the O-ring seats onto the head. Anyone else have this issue? I didn't add any sealant, so I'll probably do that first and see if that is the problem.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

"And saying crap about how EIP turbo exhaust manifold causing
steering rack failures... (when you have no real expeience with either)"
"I kind of figured that Marty was exagerating a bit, especially since Kinetic said they have had no problems whatsoever."
People need to QUIT running their mouth's about things they have no experience with. It's really getting old.... 
Back on topic you should be able to clock the snail forward juuuuust a bit and the silicon will fit better.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Hey, do you guys get additional exhaust noise in the engine bay? I'm assuming its from the Wastegate. Its not like a leak, its more like additional rumble, but not horrible, just noticeable if you have your head in the engine compartment with it running. I just want to make sure that its not out of the ordinary. 
I tightened the heck out of the flex-tube between the WG and the downpipe, but just wondering if maybe it needs to be a tad tighter.
I think I fixed my coolant leak.... appears to have been the factory upper radiator hose clamp... moved it around a bit and no more leak.
I might take a short video of it running and post it later.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
re: 'stretched' silicone:
have you attempted to re-clock the compressor so as
to bring the compressor outlet a little closer to the
TB? Just thoughts
Jeffrey Atwood

Forgot to respond to this part.... the turbo is clocked so that the lower housing bolt is against the oil drain fitting. I spoke with Kinetic, and they said that the way I have it is typical, so hopefully it should be fine.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Got the factory heat shield(s) on still? (ATP manifold)
(both the for the manifold and firewall)


No heatshield on the manifold, which is my guess for the cause of the TPS housing melting.

_Quote »_
no way the turbo got so hot to make the seals de-laminate, yet
the paint inside the engine bay is ~fine.... and you
had it 'shielded' as well. Whatever....


I think you could heat up the box without damaging the paint. That's just my best explanation of the problem as it happened quickly after the turbo went on.

_Quote »_
And saying crap about how EIP turbo exhaust manifold causing
steering rack failures... (when you have no real expeience with either)


Hearsay of course, since I don't own an EIP manifold, but whoever had told me about it at the time had first hand experience with it on his car on the track (I forget who, Iim Chu maybe?)

_Quote »_
Marty give us all a break and stop scarring the newbie
turbo guys...










It's not as scary as I may make it seem. Just beware that there is a significant amount of heat added to the engine compartment. I have simply suggested some heatshields. Assuming the lack of a heatshield on the manifold caused the TB problem and that the airbox problem was a fluke, then running hard or braided lines for coolant to the center section (if you have a water cooled center section) should take care of most issues.

_Quote »_
I have ~20kmiles on my NO IC turbo'd car. My set-up is VERY
similar to Kinetic's (I just don't have the cool silicone hose)
and have NONE of the issues you describe.


That's great. I'm sure that nobody besides me has ever melted anything with a turbo on their VR6. Perhaps it's just the California climate. I don't see what the IC has to do with anything. 

_Quote »_
I am just waiting my turn for you to begin bad 
mouthing me/my work.










Have I badmouthed anybody throughout these turbo heat discussions? I have simply presented my ideas on the heat issues. I am not out to cause you any problems, but you sure seem to try and push me to do so. I just don't get it.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

"Hey, do you guys get additional exhaust noise in the engine bay?"
Ya I've got it, there's definetly more noise in the engine bay with the kit on, nothing to worry about though I think.


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## animal1 (Nov 28, 2003)

lets get some vids!! you guys are talkin up this kit and i just need to get the funds to join on the fun.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (animal1)*

Note to self.... make sure you tighten the oil feed line that goes into the turbo.....
I had a nice engine fire this morning that scare me good..... nothing burned though, and it just blew out. Its running very well, traction is now definately a challenge








I'll try to get a video this week.
P.S. - I didn't think that I'd hear so much WOOSH noise, but there is a good bit of it that you can hear coming from the passengers side (while sitting in the car). Sounds very nice.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Well, the kit is running well, I'm working through some tuning options (car surges a bit with the 9.5psi spring). Anyone else having this issues since upgrading the WG spring?
As mentioned above, I had an oil leak initially, and that obviously caused some smell to come into the car. The major part of the smell is gone, but when I come to a stop I can still get some of that smell unless I turn the recirculation on. I think that shuts off the vent that comes from under the rain tray, correct?
I checked the engine/hood seal, and it seams to be fine, is there any other reason anyone might know of?
I have checked and there aren't any oil leaks.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

"P.S. - I didn't think that I'd hear so much WOOSH noise, but there is a good bit of it that you can hear coming from the passengers side (while sitting in the car). Sounds very nice."
Ya that filter is really noticable as it's sucking in air. You'll also hear the BPV activate if you really pay attention. 
"Anyone else having this issues since upgrading the WG spring?"
I've got some boost creep in 2nd (maybe third) with the 8psi spring. How are your EGT temps with that 9psi spring?
"The major part of the smell is gone, but when I come to a stop I can still get some of that smell unless I turn the recirculation on."
You'll smell exhaust from time to time. Especially while the car is still warming up.

_Modified by 98VR at 11:01 AM 1-3-2005_


_Modified by 98VR at 11:03 AM 1-3-2005_


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Yea, I can hear both the woosh on acceleration, and the dump as well.
As for EGT temps, I don't have a gauge. Actually, I don't even have a boost gauge yet, but am working to get a Boost controller here soon. Going to take it and dyno it soon as well, to get an idea how he A/F is looking. It feels excellent, and C2's software is safely rich up to 10psi (so I've been told).
I am getting a little bit of surge through the rpm range, and a slight hickup between shifts. I'm working with Jefnes3 to get it dead on. The addition of the 9.5 WG spring is what necessitates the modifications.
The best part about the C2 software has to be the fact that the car can be totally driven as if it wasn't Turbo-charged. I feel totally comfortable that my wife could drive the car and not even tell it had a turbo (unless she gets into the throttle). I'm very happy with the programming.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Dude get an EGT... With the 8psi spring 55 degree weather, at 6000 RPM in third mine hit 1400. I wouldn't be driving it without an EGT and boost gauge.


_Modified by 98VR at 11:38 AM 1-3-2005_


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Yea, it was 28 degrees this morning.... I took it easy though. I'll take it easy until I get it dyno'd and can see exactly how its doing.
If memory serves me correctly, Jeff, aren't you running 10psi Non-IC on your Mk3? Are you running 30# or 42#?


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

I'm pretty sure he's got 42's and as a result a lot more cooling.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

I think he does now, but am pretty sure he was running 10psi with 30's before. I ran 11psi with C2's software on my S/C setup, and didn't have any problems. Of course, 11psi on S/C amounts to about 1 seconds worth of 11psi as you shift at 6700rpm.
I spoke with Jeff last night as well, and he said it should be fine.
What EGT setup are you running, and how much was it, and where did you mount it? In my Cabrio, I don't have A-pillar pods, etc. for mounting gauges, so I'm kind of limited.
98VR, whats your experience with the smells I was talking about? How long did your setup stink after the initial installation?
Thanks!


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

I've got the Autometer Ultra Lite Pyrometer. Goes to 1600 Deg. Mounted with my Boost gauge on the A-pillar. If it's exhaust your smelling on startup and sitting at idle I'm not sure that it goes away. I think it's just a minor annoyance you have to deal with. You'll really smell the CAT cooking off that extra fuel after boost as well.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

That does seem to be what most of it is. I thought about checking to see how tight the flex exhaust pipe is on the downpipe (it doesn't seem to be super tight). I'm thinking that it may just be the combination of the oil that spilled onto the manifold/turbo/undercarriage when my oil feed line was loose, plus the faint exhaust you mentioned.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

Ya, I would put money on the Dump Tube being the culprit. Your just not going to a achieve an air/gas tight seal with that clamp. I've gone in and tried to tighten it down more but again not gonna happen IMO. As I said once it warms up it pretty much goes away. Minor annoyance.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

Yea, the real issue is at idle.
I also happen to have an open hole in the firewall that I forgot about. As part of my VR swap, the OBD2 wiring is in one bundle, but in my 95 car, there are 2 holes in the firewall (OBD1 has 2 sepearate harnesses for the engine stuff). Once I plug that, it should also help.
I'll look into the EGT gauge more, and see if I can determine a place to mount it.


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

Great info guys! Glad to see that the turbo chat has continued over the holidays.


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## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (UberMike)*

Just scheduled a dyno run for tomorrow afternoon, so I'll post back tomorrow night or Saturday if we don't get snow tonight or tomorrow.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_Just scheduled a dyno run for tomorrow afternoon, so I'll post back tomorrow night or Saturday if we don't get snow tonight or tomorrow.

Just got this back from one of our customers:
*C2 CUSTOMER: hi chris just letting you know i have the kit on . i am extremely impressed with it . it pulls MUCH harder than the atp stage 2 kit . i put down 257.8 whp on a dyno dynamics dyno at 6 psi. That was on my third pull. i believe with a little tweeking i can get it alittle over 260whp !
I AM A KINETIC BELIEVER !!!! also any eta on the stage 2 kit i would like to get one on asap ! *

Chris
C2


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_i believe with a little tweeking i can get it alittle over 260whp !

aka.... 7 psi?


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
*C2 CUSTOMER: hi chris just letting you know i have the kit on . i am extremely impressed with it . it pulls MUCH harder than the atp stage 2 kit . i put down 257.8 whp on a dyno dynamics dyno at 6 psi. That was on my third pull. i believe with a little tweeking i can get it alittle over 260whp !
I AM A KINETIC BELIEVER !!!! also any eta on the stage 2 kit i would like to get one on asap ! *

Chris
C2


Nice numbers! What kind of fuel was he running? 3" exhaust with cat or without cat? etc... more details!! 
I can't wait 'til winter is done, another 20cm for us


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Marty)*

I'm running the 9psi spring, which is supposed to creep/spike towards 9.5 or so. It will be interesting to see how it does.
I can say it pulls like a stripped-a$$ ape right now. Mostly I just want to make sure that the A/F is safely within range. I am also going to make some changes to some trim settings via VAG-COM (per Jeff's recommendation) to help address some slight hesitation that exists between shifts.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_I'm running the 9psi spring, which is supposed to creep/spike towards 9.5 or so. It will be interesting to see how it does.

Can't wait to see your numbers, Good luck with the dyno http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*

I need to get up off my arse and get my dyno done....


----------



## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (98VR)*

OK I have another question...can someone clarify, when using this kit for an OBD1-Coilpack car, is it recommended to unplug the O2 sensor if using the newest C2 OBD1 coilpack software? Sorry, this thread confused me
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1755023
because he says "write the software to solve it, well we wrote the software" but then it seemed like he was saying later to unplug the sensor anyway, or was he only referring to people with the older software for obd1+coilpack+"whatever power adders they are running" and saying that the newest code would eliminate having to unhook the sensor and also eliminate the part throttle drivabiity problems? 







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by 'dubber at 6:49 PM 1-6-2005_


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: ('dubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *’dubber* »_OK I have another question...can someone clarify, when using this kit for an OBD1-Coilpack car, is it recommended to unplug the O2 sensor if using the newest C2 OBD1 coilpack software? 







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by 'dubber at 6:49 PM 1-6-2005_

The C2Motorsports OBD I software does NOT require the disconnection of the O2 sensors. As of right now, the OBD II does require the disconnection. We are working to improve the OBD II software by eliminating the need to disconnect.
C2


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Ok, here is my dyno run from last Friday. A couple of things to mention.... I only ran it twice (could have ran it 3 times), and I only took it to a tad over 6K rpm's. The A/F mixture was at 13:1 (corrected after considering the catalytic converter), which was borderline lean. So, I decided to wait and do another run after I address the issue. 
At this point I'm working to figure out if it might be due to the 200K mile stock fuel pump, looking at just adding a Walbro in-line unit, or if it might be programming. Remember, I am running almost 10psi, so I am running outside of the intended range of the kit, but with some tweaking here and there, we should be good to go. The graph is pretty ugly as well, but should improve after the A/F issue is resolved.
I truly think with the A/F issue resolved, and if I run it to 6500rpm or 7K, it should make 280 whp.
I made a video of the runs as well, I'll post them later for fun.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

Have you talked to anyone at C2 about this dyno plot? I thought you would be way higher than 248whp. 
Anyhow, that's a first run, all kits have tuning issues, and i'm glad that you are going through this now, so that other's may learn from your experiences. 
Keep it up


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (UberMike)*

Yea, I have been talking with Jeff, and he has seen the dyno chart. He's working on determining the cause of the lean issue. I should know more in the next day or so. I'll post once I figure out the issue.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

I'm running a bit lean too I'm bumping it down to the Small Green (7.25psi) spring the Small Blue (8.70psi) spring is hitting damn near 9.5psi which is pretty much maxing out the C2 Stage I fueling kit. At the top of third my EGT is starting to get into the "Danger" zone.
" Remember, I am running almost 10psi, so I am running outside of the intended range of the kit"
Not the kit, just the fueling. The C2 stage I fueling kit is only rated to a max of 9psi, were both pusing that envelope, and as such running a bit lean. I don't doubt that more can be squeezed out of the fueling kit with some specific/custom tuning but in the state that the kit and tuning comes I think 9psi is *it*.

"I thought you would be way higher than 248whp."
Not likely, just my .02 though.
For those of you using this post for the purpose of weighing the pro's and cons of the kit don't be freightened off by this. Were both pushing the envelope on what the fueling for this kit is capable of. This kit at the advertised 6psi will NOT have these MINOR issue's were experiencing.

_Modified by 98VR at 1:11 PM 1-10-2005_


_Modified by 98VR at 1:12 PM 1-10-2005_


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (98VR)*

I agree to a certain extent. I was running 11psi on the same software on my 97 GTi that was S/C'd, and I was well within the rich/lean marks. This may not be a 100% valid comparison though, since the S/C was at 11psi for only a second, whereas with Turbo, you hit the 9.5 or so psi mark and hold it there.
Jeff mentioned that the 30# injectors should be plenty, and actually I have a friend that ran 24# injectors on a 15psi IC setup (ATP or EIP Software I believe), and ran 12.75 in the 1/4 mile with no lean issues at all. Calculated HP was around 350whp (he never did any dyno runs).
So, that is what is leading me to the fuel pump, but it could be fuel mapping/software tuning.
98VR, are you running anything besides the stock fuel pump?


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

"I was running 11psi on the same software on my 97 GTi that was S/C'd"
S/C tuning is much different. Turbo tuning is much more demanding. The C2 Stage I chips aren't all equal there's a Trubo version and a S/C version.
"I have a friend that ran 24# injectors on a 15psi IC setup"
The IC is giving him a definite advantage, where as were relying on the fueling to cool us. He can probably afford to run a bit lean. Also in his case does he have the larger fuel pump? I think adding more fuel can be accomplished both ways, yes?
I am on the stock fuel pump, that's what C2's tuning is designed for. I always thought that was the advantage with the C2 programming.

_Modified by 98VR at 2:13 PM 1-10-2005_


_Modified by 98VR at 10:31 PM 1-10-2005_


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_Jeff mentioned that the 30# injectors should be plenty, and actually I have a friend that ran 24# injectors on a 15psi IC setup (ATP or EIP Software I believe), and ran 12.75 in the 1/4 mile with no lean issues at all. Calculated HP was around 350whp (he never did any dyno runs).
So, that is what is leading me to the fuel pump, but it could be fuel mapping/software tuning.
98VR, are you running anything besides the stock fuel pump?


I have to say that I find it hard to believe that anyone got 350whp out of the #24 inj that is a stretch for the #30. The #24 inj. at that power level are so far past the 100% duty cycle it is not safe and that motor is not long for this world. On #30 inj your over the 100% at that power level. 
Sorry I just needed to say that so that people do not try this them selves and blow motors.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I agree, it sounds like a total stretch. He never dyno'd, and those numbers were averages calculated from his 1/4 mile times. It's possible that the HP was lower, but with those 1/4 mile numbers it had to be over 300. The injectors were stock G60 injectors.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I prefer to run all of my injectors at 120% duty cycle.


----------



## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_I agree, it sounds like a total stretch. He never dyno'd, and those numbers were averages calculated from his 1/4 mile times. It's possible that the HP was lower, but with those 1/4 mile numbers it had to be over 300. The injectors were stock G60 injectors.

Well what kind of car was he in, cause it doesn't take to much horsepower to run a 12.7 in a striped mk2 with slicks and a diff


----------



## dancdas (May 28, 2003)

*Re: (98VR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98VR* »_
2psi is like 20-30HP, ya it's noticeable.


you obviously know nothing.


----------



## B3-VR6 (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re:*

Mad props to all of the people who have contributed to the thread.
I have a friend that's been saving up for this kit and alot of his questions have been answered here. Also i must say that i'm really impressed with Jeremy from Kinetic and c2 Motorsports. Can't wait to see what the kit can do. Thanks.


----------



## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: Re: (B3-VR6)*

Psst, hey they have pics of the pre-production intercooler mockup in the 12v forum...


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: Re: ('dubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *’dubber* »_Psst, hey they have pics of the pre-production intercooler mockup in the 12v forum...









Here you go


----------



## BORA-Nos (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: Re: ([email protected])*

Looks good


----------



## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_...Hearsay of course, since I don't own an EIP manifold, but whoever had told me about it at the time had first hand experience with it on his car on the track (I forget who, Iim Chu maybe?)...

Sorry to post here but I just read this and must clarify: 
I have never, in the 10 years that we have been building VR6 Turbo Systems, ever seen a steering rack fail due to the installation or use of our Turbo System.
As for the mis-information, Marty just check the source you listed...who is about as reliable as the Enquirer...
Now back to your regularly scheduled program








-Rich


----------



## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: Re: ([email protected])*

will that work for the MK4 as well? (except for the TB position)


----------



## SlowMotion (Jun 9, 2002)

^^^nope^^^


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (hotshotz16v)*

Lets keep it going


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Just ordered mine today. Many thanks to all especially 98vr. BTW slowboyracing.com has free shipping on these right now.


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_Just ordered mine today. Many thanks to all especially 98vr. BTW slowboyracing.com has free shipping on these right now.


C2Motorsports not only has * FREE SHIPPING * but we will also include at no charge a FREE C2 Stickers and T-Shirt pack http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What could be nicer than sporting a nice new C2 T-Shirt while you are out BOOSTING your way through the neighborhood...








C2


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote »_Just ordered mine today. Many thanks to all especially 98vr.

Not sure what I did exactly but... Your Welcome!


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (98VR)*

Would it be at all possible for someone to post up the actual installation instructions of the kit here on this thread?
That would be awesome.


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Kinetic has them.


----------



## Crewdawg79 (Jul 25, 2003)

If there is anyone in the ATL area with a wideband and wouldn't mind helping a fellow vortexer out, I need a hand. I've had the kit on for about four months and after replacing the coil pack and the plug wires I'm lost as to what's causing my miss fire on cyl'ds 2,5,&6. And it only happends when I get on it, take it to about 6000 rpms and shift hard. I can drive the car for weeks and it wont happen, but the first time I do the above it trigers the faults and feels like I lost all power for a second/ till the rpms are over 4800. Yes, the motor still climbs but there's no power. I've been talking with Shawn at Kinetic and he needs more info/numbers and I don't have the cash right now to buy a wideband. Any help would be great. I'm willing to travel up to six hours, and I'll even be in the DC area in two weeks if there's someone up or around there. Help Please


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (Crewdawg79)*

Are your plugs gapped properly (for a turbo application)?


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Crewdawg79)*

have you tried running a fuel pressure gauge to see whats happening when you'reon boost?
friends cosworth was having similar problems. we went out the other night with a wideband and a fuel pressure gauge and were able to easily track it down as a fuel delivery problem (fixed with a new fuel filter and fixed some fuel pump wiring).


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Hey Jeremy
Was there a reason why you guys choose to use a 2.5DP instead of a full 3''? Your dyno #'s state that you used a 3" exhaust. Why not make a DP that matched the size of the exhaust to minimize turbulence?
Also in your intercooler pics. What is all the PCV tubing and hoses all about? Do those parts come with the kit? Are they necessary to run the kit to it's optimum efficiency?
Thanks in advance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Crewdawg79 (Jul 25, 2003)

The plugs are the ones from the kit, and yes I even got a new set of them, thinking it could be the plugs. the way I understood it was that I couldn't gap the three pronged plugs


----------



## 98VR (Aug 6, 2004)

*Re: (Crewdawg79)*


_Quote »_Also in your intercooler pics. What is all the PCV tubing and hoses all about?

The kit removes the plastic intake tubing that is on the car from the factory. It is replaced with that stainless piece in the picture which has two 1" (I think) outlets welded on it. One for the PCV tubing (comes with the kit) and the other for the BPV (Also comes with the kit).


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Crewdawg79)*

FYI, replace the Bosch with NGK BKR6E (edited the number) at .025" gap.
Mine is currently doing just what yours is, and I am hopeful that that fixes it. I have been told that the Bosch 3 prong plugs are very prone to missfires, and I get that same gap in power when shifting that you get.
I will be running wideband on mine next week, so will hopefully have some data to look at as well. I have new wires and coilpack as well, but really think it is the Bosch plugs.


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 8:55 AM 2-11-2005_


----------



## Crewdawg79 (Jul 25, 2003)

Good thought on the fuel pressure gauge, haven't tried it, one thing I didn't state earlier was that if I take the motor to redline and shift hard but keep the rpms above 4700 it screams, there is no hesitation at all. it seems to only come between 3800 and 4700.


----------



## Crewdawg79 (Jul 25, 2003)

I got that same NGK number and I'm just trying to track the plugs down


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (Crewdawg79)*

They are cheap, single electrode, and I am hopeful that it will fix my issues.


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 10:40 PM 2-10-2005_


----------



## Crewdawg79 (Jul 25, 2003)

I got some other plug numbers from Shawn at Kinetic.
Both NGKs BKUR7ET and BRP7ES and to Gap them at .28.


----------



## Crewdawg79 (Jul 25, 2003)

That second number might be BPR7ES, cause I couldn't find any BRP


----------



## seank (Jul 29, 2003)

*Re: (Crewdawg79)*

just read this whole topic, great write up, i can't wait to order this kit sometime this summer.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

Bizump, any new members to the club?


----------



## collier (Aug 6, 1999)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_Bizump, any new members to the club?

I just joined the hair club for men...does that count








Chris


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (collier)*

I'd like to join the "Intercooler Club".... They have three month's till it starts getting hot out. Any more updates Jeremy?


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:49 AM 2-23-2005_


----------



## OptimusGlen (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

good info, just wanted to keep track of this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nosgolf (Jun 1, 2001)

*Re: (seank)*

Jeremy's a punk with a supra....I wouldn't believe anything he says!!!


----------



## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: (nosgolf)*

I just ordered this kit to go on my VR6.......In my rabbit.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

I've ordered this kit and it will be here on Tuesday the 8th. I have been in pretty close contact with Jeremy and he's told me that the FMIC setup is probably going to be released in about a month or so. I plan on starting a new thread to share the joys and pains of installing the kit. Hopefully not having to do too much tuning in the process.







I would just like to thank all the regulars in the FI forum who have provided all the info for me over the last 2 years, yes 2 years of peeping.







If there is one thing (this is for the peeps) I have learned its that guys with turbos never complain about truly "topping out" their setup. If you do enough reading (Nater's posts with Jeff's help) you will more than likely conclude as I did that turbocharging gives you a lot more options and potentially a lot more satisfaction in the end. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Here's where the supercharger guys come to kill me.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_I've ordered this kit and it will be here on Tuesday the 8th. I have been in pretty close contact with Jeremy and he's told me that the FMIC setup is probably going to be released in about a month or so. I plan on starting a new thread to share the joys and pains of installing the kit. 

Sweet. Make sure you post a link to your install thread here so that we can keep track. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Up north we're still experiencing -10 deg. Celc. here and i'm not expecting to get my car out of storage until May


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote »_ I have been in pretty close contact with Jeremy and he's told me that the FMIC setup is probably going to be released in about a month or so.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

I dont neeeed an IC to buy this kit. But upgrades is my deal. Can I eventually get an IC for it. top mount side mount i dont care just Id like to upgrade in a few months.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Update*

I wanted to give an update on my setup. I just swapped out the Bosch plugs for the NGK's, and I have to say WOW! The power smoothed out across the range, and dang traction is a serious issue in 2nd and first part of 3rd!
I still got a missfire yesterday (flashing CEL) and my wires and coilpack look ok, I have a Coilpack I can swap though, I may just do that to see if it affects it at all. I also have a wideband that I'm going to try to install today or during the week, and I can get some hard numbers to make sure the missfires aren't due to a mixture issue.


----------



## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: Update (beetlevdubn)*

Hey Bvdubv, what's up. What's the no. on those NGK's. 
Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MigAce312 (Nov 22, 2002)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_
f' that on a vr

haahahhaah!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: Update (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_I wanted to give an update on my setup. I just swapped out the Bosch plugs for the NGK's, and I have to say WOW! The power smoothed out across the range, and dang traction is a serious issue in 2nd and first part of 3rd!


Time to look for new tires! At 15 psi I can hold traction fine throughout 2nd. I run the NGKs and they've been great for over a year now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: Update (dubsouth)*

The NGKs are BKRE6 or BK6RE, one of the two, excellent plug, and less than $2 each! I had them on my C2 SC setup, and they worked awesome, I'll use them from now on no matter what comes in a kit.
I still have to figure out the flashing CEL issue







It only happens if I'm really hammering it, which is typically the worst time. Hopefully the wideband will shed some light and let me know if its a mixture issue or ignition (I'm thinking its ignition).


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: Update (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_The NGKs are BKRE6 or BK6RE, one of the two, excellent plug, and less than $2 each! I had them on my C2 SC setup, and they worked awesome, I'll use them from now on no matter what comes in a kit.
I still have to figure out the flashing CEL issue







It only happens if I'm really hammering it, which is typically the worst time. Hopefully the wideband will shed some light and let me know if its a mixture issue or ignition (I'm thinking its ignition).

Let us know what your findings are


----------



## Je-Jetta! (Oct 28, 2003)

any updates on the mk4 kit??


----------



## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: Update (beetlevdubn)*

I still have to figure out the flashing CEL issue







It only happens if I'm really hammering it, which is typically the worst time. Hopefully the wideband will shed some light and let me know if its a mixture issue or ignition (I'm thinking its ignition).

I've only had two flashing CEL incidents, but sometimes I can feel a slight hesitation when I'm on it. I'm going to change the plugs out anyway just to see how they work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks.


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: Update (dubsouth)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubsouth* »_
I still have to figure out the flashing CEL issue







It only happens if I'm really hammering it, which is typically the worst time. Hopefully the wideband will shed some light and let me know if its a mixture issue or ignition (I'm thinking its ignition).

I've only had two flashing CEL incidents, but sometimes I can feel a slight hesitation when I'm on it. I'm going to change the plugs out anyway just to see how they work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks.
















My experiences with bucking and hesitation as WOT has always been from plug issues. Pull and replace plugs one at a time and see if that helps. Time consuming but inexpensive


----------



## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: Update (tim frame)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim frame* »_
My experiences with bucking and hesitation as WOT has always been from plug issues. Pull and replace plugs one at a time and see if that helps. Time consuming but inexpensive









Thanks, T Frame. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_
Sweet. Make sure you post a link to your install thread here so that we can keep track. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Just got the kit and opened it. Looks like it arrived in fine shape and everything is there INCLUDING Bosch spark plugs. (good thing I had ordered those NGK's already) I have to work today until 9:30 PM EST but after that I will go out to the garage and snap some shots and hopefully get some good pics of the ENTIRE kit before install. Look for the new thread before bed. (sorry, got a [email protected] yesterday too!, love it when $hit is going right) Stay Tuned!


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_
Just got the kit and opened it. Looks like it arrived in fine shape and everything is there INCLUDING Bosch spark plugs. (good thing I had ordered those NGK's already) I have to work today until 9:30 PM EST but after that I will go out to the garage and snap some shots and hopefully get some good pics of the ENTIRE kit before install. Look for the new thread before bed. (sorry, got a [email protected] yesterday too!, love it when $hit is going right) Stay Tuned!

Keep the info here if at all possible. So we can keep track of all stuff pertanant kinetic turbo info together


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

ok then, here you go-
The Patient. My 95 GTI I bought in 99 from Tracy VW in Hyannis, Mass with 25K on the clock. This car was owned by a 75 year old guy(no $hit) who put a lot of little marks on it but I doubt the gas pedal had ever seen the floor before I owned it. It has DSR 256's, Turn2, H&R cup kit, ATE powerdisc fronts and drilled Zimmermans in the rear, TT 2.5" cat back, etc.....








Ready for surgery doctor.
















Bling Bling








Really heavy and seems to be well manufactured








mmmmm...booooost








plugs and #36 injectors








all the other stuff








This whole kit seems pretty well complete and I'm thinking I should have it running in a week or so.(I like to take my time, my wife is out of town, I have 2 daughters 4 and 7, and I just got a promotion at work and need to pay my dues) I don't drive the car in the winter anyway so I'm really in no hurry.
Got the new injectors installed before bed, hence the reason no post was made last night.








I will post my progress as it happens.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Do yourself a favor and drop a small green (7.25) or small blue (8.75) spring in that waste gate.







It's easier to do it now than pull the gate back off later. If you don't have an LSD & clutch in it go with the 7.25 and go easy on your drive train. The 7.25 will creep to about 8, while the the 8.75 will creep to 9.5 almost 10.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:47 AM 3-9-2005_


----------



## VbmxW (Nov 21, 2002)

*Re: (Je-Jetta!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Je-Jetta!* »_any updates on the mk4 kit??


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (VbmxW)*

No.


----------



## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (VbmxW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VbmxW* »_any updates on the mk4 kit??

Its in the works. Here is a link to the kit -> http://www.kineticmotorsport.c....html


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Do yourself a favor and drop inthe small blue, the 8.75 will creep to 9.5 almost 10.
_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:47 AM 3-9-2005_

(edited for 'flavor')
36# inj. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

no worries 
lean on Shawn for a dyno chart








Jeffrey Atwood


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 6:18 PM 3-9-2005_


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: (nosgolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nosgolf* »_Jeremy's a punk with a supra....I wouldn't believe anything he says!!!









I'll get you


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Jeremy,
Are there any options for the DP diameter? or just 2.5
As well as colors for the silicone couplers?
Thanks


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Thanks BOBSTR
for posting your install in the thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Anxiously awaiting more pics


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (tim frame)*


_Quote »_(edited for 'flavor')

The correct terminology I believe is "flava'"










_Modified by .:VRT:. at 6:25 PM 3-9-2005_


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Had a setback this evening, I snapped a manifold stud just as I was torqueing them. I'm going to try to drill and easy out it before I take the manifold back off because the 4 nuts on the bottom were a serious PITA.


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: Update (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_Time to look for new tires! At 15 psi I can hold traction fine throughout 2nd. 


Time for an exhaust I'd say.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: (tim frame)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim frame* »_Jeremy,
Are there any options for the DP diameter? or just 2.5
As well as colors for the silicone couplers?
Thanks


There is only 2.5in right now there will be a 3" up grade later. The silicone comes in red, blue and black.


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Thanks
Jeremy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Today went much better. Got the broken stud fixed, put the manifold back on, and installed the turbo and downpipe. Being that I have an OBDI I have some questions for Kinetic about the bung for an O2 sensor welded on the downpipe that I don't think I need to use. I also have a question about the rigid tubing that went from the old manifold to the EGT (?) sensor/valve. (too tired to look in my Bentley) 
I bought a temp exhaust manifold stud for the one I snapped and have a true replacement coming from the stealership soon. I must say the downpipe fits extremely well and the install was fairly quick. BTW I did order a small blue wastegate spring when I originally ordered the kit. (I'm glad Jeff is watching) Notice the wastegate is off in the pics. Today's progress:


----------



## m5am (Mar 4, 2004)

soooo nice. I cant wait to install mine.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Looking good Bob, I may have that other thing we where talking about ready soon. Give me a call and I will give you the run down on it.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_I have some questions for Kinetic about the bung for an O2 sensor welded on the downpipe that I don't think I need to use. 
BTW I did order a small blue wastegate spring when I originally ordered the kit. 


...clipped....

Put the o2 sensor in.... 
Obd1 is ALL good. 
NO missing sensors
NO CEL's...
Obd2 = NO CEL/Missing sensors: This season http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
(we have o2 control in software....







)

Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote »_Obd2 = NO CEL/Missing sensors: This season 


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif aaaaaaaaand http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 4:11 PM 3-11-2005_


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Finished up with the downpipe today. If you look in the pics you'll see a gasket that goes between the turbo and the downpipe on the flange. I went to NAPA and bought a sheet of that stuff today for $11 it has a steel core with the gasket material bonded to it. The girl behind the counter said she made a set of header gaskets out of it and they work just fine.(my kind of chick!) I will be more than happy to send a piece to anyone who needs it for their kit for about a buck if it'll make the postage limitations.(save ya 10 bucks) Put in the blue spring tonight, heatshield, and intake manifold. I didn't torque the intake down because I didn't realize I didn't have a 1/2 to 3/8 adapter for my torquewrench. Tomorrow it's the pan and the finishing touches up top.
















Gee, do you think this is enough to do a 2x2 gasket???








Here you can see the steel in the middle, really nice stuff.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*

so what plugs did you end up using in your setup?


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

Haven't made up my mind on that yet. I don't know which one will work the best. I'm leaning toward the NGK's just because I put in the blue 8.75 spring and they run colder.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

On the subject of the downpipe o2 sensor- There was no sensor on my original downpipe but the bung is welded on for OBDII. Jeremy explained to me that the very vast majority of kits sold will be OBDII and it was just a minor oversight. 
I have to agree with that philosophy being there were only~1,500 OBDI GTI's made. (I think thats right







)The tech @ Kinetic is sending me a plug for the bung. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Nothing so far has been an absolute PITA. The 4 nuts for the exhaust manifold weren't a lot of fun but I did them twice and the second time it only took me 5-10 minutes.









I personally recommend the whole front end removal like I did for the oil pressure line. I can't imagine how rough that would be without full access. Also I tee'd in an oil pressure sending unit next to the filter housing. I'm out of work @6, the kids are going to a friends for the night, and I am headed for the garage. More pics tonight.








Look for a pic of my assistant tonight.


----------



## shapeco (May 28, 2004)

now when ordering this kit does it matter if dizzy or coil?


----------



## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: (shapeco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shapeco* »_now when ordering this kit does it matter if dizzy or coil?

yes as there is no C2 software for obd-1 distributor yet.


----------



## shapeco (May 28, 2004)

*Re: (turboit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turboit* »_
yes as there is no C2 software for obd-1 distributor yet.
 so my 93 raddo with dizzy can not run this set up yet? can there be a change from dizzy to coil? and how hard is this....


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (shapeco)*

No dizzy tune 'yet'...
If you come to my shop in Hamden, CT.
I can tune it for you, no problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I can install the kit too.
Jeffrey Atwood

Dizzy vr6 test car needed....


----------



## shapeco (May 28, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_No dizzy tune 'yet'...
If you come to my shop in Hamden, CT.
I can tune it for you, no problem. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I can install the kit too.
Jeffrey Atwood

Dizzy vr6 test car needed....








 thanks man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but as far as the install, im going to do that myself


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Didn't get as much done as I wanted to tonight because my evil neighbor played into my weakness for beer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







I still got some stuff done as you can see in the pictures. A word of advice, take a file and knock the edge off the two hose nipples on the intake pipe, BEFORE you put it in. If you don't they will peel the hose off and the remnants will fall into the intake plumbing.
My assistant also let me down tonight, only got one beer out of her and she floated. Oh well, I'll just call the keg store on Monday.








My easy drinking bev of choice is actually Moosehead, Paulaner is good but it ain't like you can swill a ton of them and do any kind of wrench turning.
























Every beer drinkers dream-icy cold, on tap, 24/7


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*

One note to everyone on the plug thing, mine ran excellent with the new NGK's, but I am still having some missfire issue. I spoke with a good friend that has been running 15psi, and he had the exact same problem with surging caused by missfires, etc. His recommendation was to run .018" gap, which I will be adjusting in the next day or so.
He said it totally fixed his surging and flashing CEL.
I connected the wideband yesterday, and it looks excellent, mostly 11.8 to 12.5 when under boost.... SO, my surging issue has to be related to miss-fires. I'll post back the results of the regap of my plugs.


----------



## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_One note to everyone on the plug thing, mine ran excellent with the new NGK's, but I am still having some missfire issue. I spoke with a good friend that has been running 15psi, and he had the exact same problem with surging caused by missfires, etc. His recommendation was to run .018" gap, which I will be adjusting in the next day or so.
He said it totally fixed his surging and flashing CEL.
I connected the wideband yesterday, and it looks excellent, mostly 11.8 to 12.5 when under boost.... SO, my surging issue has to be related to miss-fires. I'll post back the results of the regap of my plugs.

I installed the NGK's a couple day's ago, and gapped the plugs at .025. Had my first misfire last nite whipping on some "old vette" on the highway.
I'll go back and try the .018.
Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (dubsouth)*

Anybody got a clue what I'm supposed to do with this one?


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*

It looks like you may have gotten the wrong compressor housing. Call Jeremy to make sure, mine doesn't have that piece at all.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote »_It looks like you may have gotten the wrong compressor housing. Call Jeremy to make sure, mine doesn't have that piece at all.

Yours isn't OBDI is it? At one point I knew what that was for but I forget now....
















It goes there but I don't know what it's for









_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:50 AM 3-15-2005_


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 11:33 AM 3-15-2005_


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

ISV (Idle Speed Valve/Solenoid) maybe? I didn't know that they rerouted it there on the OBD1's


----------



## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*









My friend, you are a lucky man!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

The hose goes to the idle speed controller (according to the tech @Kinetic) but that leaves the question of what to do with the vacuum line that taps into the original hose going between the intake and the idle speed controller. I'm almost there but I still have to do the pan and the gauges/sensors. 
My wife is finally coming home this weekend and I have the weekend off so I think I may be able to start the car by Sunday.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Did C2 change up their MAF housing? Or is that only for the OBDI. Mine sure doesn't look like that one.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

I have no idea but the one in the pics on their website sure looks different.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Looks like they're actuall welded-sealed now as opposed to relying on a press-fit.


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Did C2 change up their MAF housing? Or is that only for the OBDI. Mine sure doesn't look like that one.

That is actually the Kinetic version of the C2 MAF.
We are always trying to evolve our products utilizing the most efficient means of manufacturing while not sacrificing function.
That would be revision No. 3 if anyone is counting








C2


_Modified by C2Motorsports at 8:53 AM 3-16-2005_


----------



## bob4me2see (Jun 24, 2001)

*Re: (Mr King)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr King* »_
For what this kit is priced at, and what it is capable of, the only thing I wonder is why bother supercharging your car and paying more ?









Because they haven't developed the OBDI distro software and from what I'm hearing in the Corrado forum, they don't plan to.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (bob4me2see)*

In C2's defense, and don't take this the wrong way. It's really not worth putting that much R&D into. I mean how many Dizzy 'Raddo's are left running. Now take that number and see how many of those 'Raddo's are actually in decent enough shape to be doing FI on? That number unfortunately is probably very, very small. I'm not saying that's the reason their not pursuing it but if I we're in C2's shoes it'd definetly be a factor. It's unfortunate though.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (bob4me2see)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bob4me2see* »_Because they haven't developed the OBDI distro software and from what I'm hearing in the Corrado forum, they don't plan to.









thats not true at all. The problem is the lack of a dizzy vrt close to him to use as patient 0.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote »_thats not true at all. The problem is the lack of a dizzy vrt close to him to use as patient 0.


_Quote »_ I mean how many Dizzy 'Raddo's are left running. Now take that number and see how many of those 'Raddo's are actually in decent enough shape to be doing FI on?

My statement can also be applied to your comment I believe.








Your right though about this though.

_Quote »_It's really not worth putting that much R&D into.

It's it worth it I guess, it just seems like a tough call, to me that is. How many do you think will actually end up using it?



_Modified by .:VRT:. at 2:44 PM 3-16-2005_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

We (C2) have the ability to tune dizzy cars, now.
At first glance we were not sure of the difficulties and looking
at the 'possible' sales, we opted ~not to do it (publicly), but
kept it on the back burner. 
We got a call from Bildon Motorsport. They needed
some help with their Corrado racecar. In order to be SCCA legal
they were required to keep the stock ecu. 2 choices:
piggyback, or chip tuning. So, we set them up with
some custom software tools.








In providing Bildon with a tuning solution, we now HAVE
dizzy tuning capabilities.
ANYONE with a dizzy v6:
If you want to keep the stock ecu and need/want custom
tuning, just bring the car to us for tuning. simple









Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## 1995_GTI_VR6 (Jan 26, 2004)

i cant wait to get the cash for this, but i do have a question. 
i know i should take the front end off but what else do i have to do to the motor to get this done with ease? is it a hard job?


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (1995_GTI_VR6)*

No, I wouldn't say its a hard job but I would say its definitely something you don't want to try and rush through. To prep mine I took off both manifolds and the downpipe. If this is something you are going to do for sure I would be happy to help because as far as I can tell I'm the only guy on the 'Tex that has done an OBDI GTI.


----------



## 1995_GTI_VR6 (Jan 26, 2004)

sweet thanks, nother question...
is it hard to mantain a turbo? also is it a pain/expensive to tune the ECU?


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (1995_GTI_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1995_GTI_VR6* »_sweet thanks, nother question...
is it hard to mantain a turbo? also is it a pain/expensive to tune the ECU?


Tuning the ECU is easy.......it is ALREADY included in the Kinetic kit








C2


----------



## 1995_GTI_VR6 (Jan 26, 2004)

even if i want the upgraded spring










_Modified by 1995_GTI_VR6 at 6:24 AM 3-17-2005_


----------



## 1995_GTI_VR6 (Jan 26, 2004)

sorry guys but im a boost newbe and i still dont get a few things...
Diverter Valve, Blow off valve and the wastegate! 
i know the blow off valve lets the pressurized air out after you let off the gas. and the wastegate controls the amount of boost that will be delivered. what is the perpose of the diverter valve? is it like you have a BOV or a DV or do you have both.


----------



## Patrick (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: (1995_GTI_VR6)*

A diverter valve serves the same purpose as a blowoff valve. Difference is a blowoff valve vents to the atmosphere and a diverter vavle routes the air back into the intake rather than to the atmosphere.


----------



## 1995_GTI_VR6 (Jan 26, 2004)

so do you still get the woooooshh sound when you change gears? whats better?


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (1995_GTI_VR6)*

You can only use a DV style valve with this kit. You get plenty of "wooooosh" from the snail sucking air in through the open element filter if that's your concern. And am I the only person that thinks it's amuzing that a lot of peoples questions seem to be about how the kit sounds? Who cares LOL it's all about how it PERFORMS. Don't take that personally now










_Modified by .:VRT:. at 9:28 AM 3-17-2005_


----------



## 1995_GTI_VR6 (Jan 26, 2004)

yeah but i know the kit performs. and i will order it next month just getting some info. hahahaha woooooosh pishhhsss lol


----------



## bob4me2see (Jun 24, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_In C2's defense, and don't take this the wrong way. It's really not worth putting that much R&D into. I mean how many Dizzy 'Raddo's are left running. Now take that number and see how many of those 'Raddo's are actually in decent enough shape to be doing FI on? That number unfortunately is probably very, very small. I'm not saying that's the reason their not pursuing it but if I we're in C2's shoes it'd definetly be a factor. It's unfortunate though.

Don't know what the breaking point is for the chip to be produced for market, but there are more than a handful of OBD1 dizzy owners interested. Heck, some are considering converting to coilpack to run this kit. Several I know personally fall into my category which is 1) car paid off, 2) engine maintenance/rebuild within last 25,000 miles, 3) many other mods completed with the exception of a major power upgrade and most importantly 4) cash/charge on hand waiting to make a purchase. C2 and other chip tuners can cut a chip for this kit but as a buyer, now your talking about paying for something that's already included for other apps. I'm the patient type though so I'm sure someone will eventually offer their ride for software tuning. 


_Modified by bob4me2see at 6:42 AM 3-18-2005_


----------



## crazysimi (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (bob4me2see)*

so with this kit do you need a 2.5" exhaust all the way back or would my neuspeed catback work with this
also what are some other pre turbo things should be done to car with 85k on the clock


_Modified by crazysimi at 3:31 PM 3-18-2005_


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazysimi)*

The neuspeed isn't a 2.5" system???? My GOD what an over priced POS! It doesn't mean you can't run this kit though, it just wont flow as well.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 9:51 AM 3-18-2005_


----------



## crazysimi (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_The neuspeed isn't a 2.5" system???? My GOD what an over priced POS! It doesn't mean you can't run this kit though, it just wont flow as well.

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 9:51 AM 3-18-2005_

young and stupid purchase, it wouldn't bolt up right then would it


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazysimi)*


_Quote »_it wouldn't bolt up right then would it

What's that, the kit?


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (crazysimi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazysimi* »_
young and stupid purchase, it wouldn't bolt up right then would it

I guess i'm in the same boat as you








I'll see how the install goes first before I decide to fork out coin for another exhaust. 
As for the Neuspeed being junk, I haven't had any issues with my exhaust, and I enjoy the exhaust note that is produced. 
.:VRT:. What's your beef with the neuspeed exhaust?


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote »_ My GOD what an over priced POS!








that wasn't clear enough.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (crazysimi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazysimi* »_
young and stupid purchase, it wouldn't bolt up right then would it

The downpipe on this kit is 2.5" and it will bolt to your Catalytic converter flange no problem (so your cat-back system can stay in place). I think you will be fine actually, I had a 2.25" system in my A2VR6, and many people said it wasn't enough for the setup (it wasn't turbo charged) but it was the best sounding exhaust I've had.
Anyway, this setup will work fine with your exhaust, and someday you can upgrade if you like, but I would bet that the difference would be negligible at best. If you removed your cat and installed a test pipe, that might make a noticeable difference (I'm actually going to do that here shortly).


_Modified by beetlevdubn at 8:47 AM 3-18-2005_


----------



## crazysimi (Mar 28, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

thanks for the input, what other things do you suggest before the kit, 
i would just be running low boost but dont want things breaking left and right, what are good upgrade replacements that should be done on a 85k engine


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (crazysimi)*

Started the day knowing I had a stripped plug on #5.







I went to the local NAPA to get a helicoil kit and they recommended a tap and an insert type of system. Needless to say I did a lot of reading last night on the subject and I was edgeumicated before I dug in for the task. I don't think that baby is ever going to back out, worked really well.
I got everything put together enough to start it and it would not fire.








Pulled the screw from the test port on the fuel rail and it shot ALL kinds of fuel out when being cranked. Worked on it for 12+ hours today. Anyway, after some searching tonight I found this thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1607951
Jeff, If I ever get the chance to meet you, the beers are on me, as many as you can put away.








I think my chip may be in backwards. I installed it with the notch out of the end pointing the same way as the GIAC I took out but I'm sure thats what the guy in the thread above did too. If that works I'll take a pic of the proper way the chip is supposed to go.
Wiped out. I'll post pics tomorrow.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_Started the day knowing I had a stripped plug on #5.









Man, how frustrating, but I have to ask.... do you turn into the Hulk when you work on your car? First the exhaust stud, now the plug, how does that happen?
I feel your pain, hang in there (and take it easy on the rest of the install, eh? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

The first time I had a problem with that plug it was because I torqued it to the specs in the Bentley-and it blew out.
I've torqued the wheels to the Bentley specs and almost had one come completely off.
I guess I have had bad luck with $hit coming apart because it wasn't tight enough.

_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_
Man, how frustrating, but I have to ask.... do you turn into the Hulk when you work on your car? 


I actually had my grip strength measured on my right hand once due to a blown knuckle form a work injury- 169 pounds.







I guess that comes from all those lonely nights when I was in the Navy years ago.








Thanks for the encouragement.


_Modified by bobstr at 1:26 PM 3-20-2005_


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Well, here's the progress so far.
I went out this morning and just for starters I put in my old GIAC chip and it started immediately and idled smoothly. Tried the C2 chip and no luck. I then wondered if I took the riser with a chip glued to it on the underside off the EEPROM socket and then tried the C2 chip what I would get.








GIAC chip with the socket attached.








It started but idled very roughly smoothing out for a few seconds and then rough again. Meanwhile the friggin ECU relay(#3 on the panel) sounds like Fred Astaire doing a tap dance. Also smells like its burning way rich.







I don't think its a bad relay hence the GIAC chip running smoothly. 
Turbo is turning. (had to look)








Some of the stuff that I question:








1. Leaving the EGR tube coming off the exhaust manifold off completely. (Fig 10 Page 26-7 of the Bentley)
2. Plugging the vacuum line from the EGR that t's into the line coming from the compressor housing to the Idle Stabilizer controller. (Fig 10 Page 26-7 of the Bentley)
3. Completely eliminating the PCV system with the idle stabilizer. (Fig. 7 Page 26-5)
Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Pimpalicious316 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: (bobstr)*

i can't wait to get this installed and working. just waiting for [email protected] to call me so i can place my order. call me chris http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








~Andrew


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_
Some of the stuff that I question:








1. Leaving the EGR tube coming off the exhaust manifold off completely. (Fig 10 Page 26-7 of the Bentley)
2. Plugging the vacuum line from the EGR that t's into the line coming from the compressor housing to the Idle Stabilizer controller. (Fig 10 Page 26-7 of the Bentley)
3. Completely eliminating the PCV system with the idle stabilizer. (Fig. 7 Page 26-5)
Any help or ideas would be greatly appreciated.


Remove egr tube
plug the egr line 
keep the idle control valve (thats how the ecu controls idle rpm)

Jeff


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (Pimpalicious316)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pimpalicious316* »_i can't wait to get this installed and working. just waiting for [email protected] to call me so i can place my order. call me chris http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








~Andrew

How about Monday March 21st at 9am EST?
Chris
C2


----------



## bob4me2see (Jun 24, 2001)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shorty54* »_
The Turbo is on a throttle position response. So when RPM's and throttle are needed! BOOST is there! The engine is stock except for the VRT kit and Custom exhaust!

This was copied from the other big thread going on about this kit. I think another comment (not by Shorty) was that the turbo kit feels like a supercharged car with the linear response. I'm looking for more descriptive feedback from people that are running this kit as to what it feels like to drive a VR with this kit installed i.e. response under full acceleration, part throttle, etc. I'm having a hard time picturing _near_ supercharger like response given my limited experience with turbo's. The only thing I can base what the response (not the extra grunt) might feel like is from driving my TDI. Its laid out for low rpm boost and eventhough its torquey, there is still a noticeable delay in boost response when you step on it. I had a similar feeling after test driving a 1.8T but that was so long ago, I don't like to use that for a comparison. 



_Modified by bob4me2see at 11:30 AM 3-21-2005_


----------



## Pimpalicious316 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_How about Monday March 21st at 9am EST?
Chris
C2

hehe, thanks man








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to C2
~Andrew


----------



## animal1 (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (bob4me2see)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bob4me2see* »_
This was copied from the other big thread going on about this kit. I think another comment (not by Shorty) was that the turbo kit feels like a supercharged car with the linear response. I'm looking for more descriptive feedback from people that are running this kit as to what it feels like to drive a VR with this kit installed i.e. response under full acceleration, part throttle, etc. I'm having a hard time picturing _near_ supercharger like response given my limited experience with turbo's. The only thing I can base what the response (not the extra grunt) might feel like is from driving my TDI. Its laid out for low rpm boost and eventhough its torquey, there is still a noticeable delay in boost response when you step on it. I had a similar feeling after test driving a 1.8T but that was so long ago, I don't like to use that for a comparison. 
_Modified by bob4me2see at 11:30 AM 3-21-2005_

wondering the same thing


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (animal1)*


_Quote »_was that the turbo kit feels like a supercharged car with the linear response.

That was me. It feels like stock only faster. Very similar characteristics to the way the VR is normally. There's no surging or sudden burst of power it just slides into it. You wouldn't even know the kit is there except for the wooshing sound of the snail sucking in air.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:39 PM 3-21-2005_


----------



## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Hows traction in 1st and 2nd gear, i know its limted but how limted is it, do you have to modulate the throttle alot?


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (tallicagolf)*

I don't launch my car so traction isn't an issue.


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 8:06 AM 3-22-2005_


----------



## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_I don't launch my car so traction isn't an issue.

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 8:06 AM 3-22-2005_

No i meant if you just mash the pedal from stop or like 5mph roll, do the tires go up in smoke?


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (tallicagolf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tallicagolf* »_
No i meant if you just mash the pedal from stop or like 5mph roll, do the tires go up in smoke?

What?
My car did that with only a chip


----------



## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim frame* »_What?
My car did that with only a chip









Well congragulations







All im asking is, Is traction a big issue with this kit from a dead stop?, No launching just, if you mash the pedal is going to sit there and burnout or is it going to take of like a bat outa hell? Its a simple question!


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (tallicagolf)*

I'd say it really depends on the stickiness of your tires and the current status of your clutch. It will in first and a little bit in second (again depending on the things I mentioned above) For some reason my all seasons have been better for traction in a straight line than my Yoko AVS's but I'd wager that has a bit to do with tire pressure. I like to run my Yoko's hard.


----------



## tallicagolf (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_I'd say it really depends on the stickiness of your tires and the current status of your clutch. It will in first and a little bit in second (again depending on the things I mentioned above) For some reason my all seasons have been better for traction in a straight line than my Yoko AVS's but I'd wager that has a bit to do with tire pressure. I like to run my Yoko's hard.

Great thanks, thats the exact response i was looking for! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tallicagolf)*

Today I got my a-pillar gauges in along with my 42 draft designs panel with oil pressure gauge. I'm just waiting for a new EEPROM from C2 to get this baby running.


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Hey Bob
The gauges look the biz








Have you driven the car yet? If so, how distracting are the a pillar guages, especially at night?
I had a blazer with a 5 inch tach in the drivers side corner of the dash and at night the f ing thing would almost blind me while making left turns


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Only one thing about the boost gauge, you should have gone with the 20psi, your going to feel very meek when that needle doesn't go very far


----------



## MrVrSix (Apr 28, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Only one thing about the boost gauge, you should have gone with the 20psi, your going to feel very meek when that needle doesn't go very far









what about oil pressure gauge, is 100 psi good enough?


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Only one thing about the boost gauge, you should have gone with the 20psi, your going to feel very meek when that needle doesn't go very far









I hope he ins't like everyone else on here including myself of having big turbo plans in the future.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

I have to agree, this is just the first step. I plan on having this car for a very long time and the pattern has been a major upgrade every other year. Like I said before it only has 64K on it and I only drive it in the summer. 
I am looking for some GolfIII GL badges though!


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (tim frame)*


_Quote »_I hope he ins't like everyone else on here including myself of having big turbo plans in the future.

Hahaha, you let me know when you get to that ellusive 30psi


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_
Hahaha, you let me know when you get to that ellusive 30psi









Now thats crazy talk


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (tim frame)*

I posted this in the other Kinetic thread, but wanted to see if anyone in this thread had any ideas:
I have a quick diagnosis question for anyone running the kit.
My setup has been working fine, especially if I don't run it hard. I have been plagued with missfire issues (flashing CEL) since the beginning, and have also had surging through the power range (I'm sure caused by the missfires).
I switched from the Bosch plugs to the NGK units, that helped, but still getting missfires, and still some of the surging. I reduced the gap from .024" to .018" on the recommendation of a fellow VRT guy, and that has helped the most with the power surging, but I am still getting the flashing CEL and a bit of surging.
My plug wires have about 35K miles on them, the coilpack looks fine, no cracks, etc., but does have 110K miles on it.
The wideband shows good A/F through the range, between 11.5 and 12.5, so I am pretty sure this must be related to ignition issues.
Any ideas?


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

did you mist the coilpack with water in a low light situation? If not do this and look for sparks or arching. If they appear BAM thats the problem.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

bad spark plug wire maybe?
do you have a lighter spring you can try to see if it happens under lower boost circumstances?


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

Just came back from my first test drive and all I can say is HOLY CRAP!







There's nothing like having enough power to get right to 110 mph. I do have a CEL though but other than that everything is working fine. I will post more when I know more. Going to go to a dyno in my neck of the woods to see what this thing is really running within the next couple of weeks. 
Stay tuned.


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*

What boost spring/boost pressure are you running? Any surging through the rpm range, and flashing CEL's?


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*

I'm seeing boost spikes on my gauge up to 12 psi. That should be alright as long as the weather stays cold, then I'm either going to intercool it or reduce the boost.
Only drove it for about 1/2 hour tonight so the jury is still out on surging.
CEL is solid.
Remember mine is OBD1 I thought yours was OBD2.


_Modified by bobstr at 4:08 AM 4-1-2005_


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Hey Bob,
Great news!
So can you estimate how long it took from when you popped the hood until you pulled it out of the driveway (I know you took your good ol time) 
Is it around the stated 16-20hours of actual work, or way longer?
Just trying to gauge how long I will be without the VW


----------



## 30gtivr6 (Apr 1, 2005)

wow this is awesome! I'm about to rebuild my 3.0L gti and drop the compression. This is what ive been looking for







. 
does anyone know anything about the audspeed kit?


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## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Some of my time issues were because of the difference in kits between OBDI & OBDII. I had an extra bung on the downpipe that I had to wait for Jeremy to send me a plug for it from Kinetic because it was metric thread and I wasn't going to run around looking for one. Another was the fact that I was stupid and stuck my C2 chip into the GIAC encryption board on my ECU and had to wait for another one of those to show up. 
*Kudos to Jeff and C2 for sending me another and giving me zero $hit about it, even after me admitting the error of my ways, now that is customer service kids.* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm tempted to write a better set of directions because there are definitely some time savers that should be included.
Once again I extend the offer to send anyone some of that gasket material I bought for the impeller/downpipe connection just send me your address and a buck.








Yea, I think 16-20 hours is pretty accurate if you have all the right stuff and aren't playing around. But as I've shown in my earlier posts my assistant is more of a hinderance than a help.










_Modified by bobstr at 4:41 AM 4-26-2005_


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote »_I'm seeing boost spikes on my gauge up to 12 psi.

WOW! That a huge spike up from the 8.75 the spring is supposed to be rated at. Check your vacume lines to make sure everything is secure. Whats your EGT hit with that 12psi?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_What boost spring/boost pressure are you running? Any surging through the rpm range, and flashing CEL's?

OBd1 has no misfire detection.
misfire detection was MANDATED by obd2 regs.... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
and tends to be overly sensitive....
re: there was a 1.8T recall to get software re-flashed.

-Jeff


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_
WOW! That a huge spike up from the 8.75 the spring is supposed to be rated at. Check your vacume lines to make sure everything is secure. Whats your EGT hit with that 12psi?


No problem with 36# inj... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Jeff


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_ I'm tempted to write a better set of directions because there are definitely some time savers that should be included.

If you decide to do it (which would be great) post them up here


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## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

I'm working on them but I would like to see if VRT, beetlevdubn, or dubsouth have anything to add.


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## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Here they are, modified directions







:
_THE FOLLOWING DIRECTIONS ARE MERELY MY OPINION, USE THEM AT YOUR OWN RISK AND SPARE ME THE HATE MAIL. This kit requires a lot more than a thimble full of common sense. If you can’t handle it hire a pro to do the job. You will find all of my input in italics, I did not remove any information from the original directions.
The first step before beginning this or any other major engine modification is to have access to a Bentley manual. If you do not have one I strongly recommend getting or borrowing one.
Before you get all carried away, try to remember to put all bolts and screws back into their threaded counterparts when you pull things apart. If the situation doesn’t allow it at least bag and label the small stuff._
1) To begin, first disconnect battery. _Wrong answer, to begin, remove the hood then worry about the battery. Remember you are working at the very rear of the engine bay, take the hood off (5 minutes, two people) and save yourself a bunch of aggravation. _
2) Remove air box and associated inlet pieces
3) Remove upper intake manifold as described in Robert Bentley Manual. Remove the spark plug leads and various shrouds. Removing the 6mm Allen head bolts along the front of manifold where the 2 halves join. Remove the 6mm Allen head bolts that attach the manifold brackets to the head. Remove throttle cable from throttle body. Unplug the various sensors and vacuum hoses. The upper manifold should now be free, remove it from car. *NOTE * with the intake manifold off, cover the lower half of the manifold so that nothing can fall into engine making the installation of turbo useless and the need for a rebuild a possibility.
4) You can now replace the fuel injectors. Be careful as the fuel system is pressurized and will spray (safety glasses and rags are definitely recommended). The injector o-rings must be lubricated before installation. _ (The Bentley recommends regular old motor oil for lubricating the o-rings) If you’ve never done this before (like me) you will find these things don’t just slide right in. Be persistent but careful and they will eventually go in. do not angle them too far off to one side or you may damage the o-ring. When you re-install the fuel rail be careful to get all of the injectors centered into their holes. What I did was to tighten the 10mm bolts on the rail down most all the way and apply pressure starting from each end of the rail. These too will eventually click in, be patient and careful here. _
5) Next is the oil feed line. While the intake manifold is off, look straight down to the top of the oil filter housing. There are three sensors, remove the one closest to the transmission; install brass "run tee" (be sure to use thread sealer on threads of tee, _but be careful not to leave any of the sealer or Teflon tape hanging off the end of the fitting because it will break loose and possibly gum up the turbo shaft, (I’ve seen that issue come up in more than one post on the Vortex) _ the sensor then screws into top of tee. The 1/8 NPT to -4 adapter threads into side of tee (more sealer on end of adapter which threads into tee) the 90° swivel goes on next with the oil line threading onto swivel pointing up towards top of engine. Run oil line in a logical path so that it does not interfere with manifold (when reassembled). Keep open end of oil line clean and free of debris, tape would be a good thing. Note: it may be easier to remove the oil filter housing altogether this is done by first draining housing and then removing the three bolts which attach it to the block. Once removed, it is a simple procedure to install run tee etc. Be sure that when you reinstall the 'O-ring' (the figure 8 looking seal) is in good condition or it will leak. 
_In my opinion it is easier to remove the front end of the car to perform this operation especially if you are going to tee in an oil pressure-sending unit along with the oil supply line. Not to mention the top bolt on that housing is a severe PITA. I also think leaving the housing stuck to the block is the best move in this case because they are notorious for leaking and that little figure 8 seal runs ~25 bucks from the dealer. Moral: if it ain’t already leaking, don’t mess with it. _
6) Soak all nuts/bolts of exhaust with WD-40 or something similar. Crawl under car and undo down pipe from cat. _8mm x 1.25in. stainless bolts with washers and nuts that have already been purchased will greatly increase the possibility of a grinder or sawsall being employed in this step. Cut ‘em off put and on new ones. _Remove down pipe from manifold. Remove heat shields and undo manifolds from head. Be sure that 02 sensor is disconnected before you remove down pipe. _Unless you’ve got an OBD1, there is no O2 on the down pipe. Make sure you get a plug for the bung that is welded to the new downpipe from Kinetic when you order the kit! _
7) Install turbo manifold (if gaskets are shot...replace). _ (Included if you pay the $250 for the oil pan and all the other goodies) The four nuts on the bottom side of the manifold will suck bad if you do not use some sort of lubricant on them. What I did was grease them all up with high temp anti-seize and run the nuts up and down the length of each stud to get them to free up a little BEFORE I put the manifold on. I searched long and hard in the Bentley for the torques on the nuts for the exhaust manifold to no avail, 25 ft/lbs ought to get the job done here or a calibrated elbow. _ Cut/install heat shield for top of manifold so that it does not interfere with turbo. Install studs into manifold, turbo gasket, and turbo. Loosen the bolts around compressor/exhaust housings so that center housing can be rotated. Install V4 NPT to -4 90deg. adapter to oil inlet on turbo. You want to rotate center housing so that the oil feed is straight up. The bolts on the exhaust housing side can be tightened. Tighten oil line to adapter on turbo. _I did not loosen one bolt on my turbo; there was no need to. _
8) Drain oil from pan. Remove bolts holding pan to engine (on the transmission there is a cover to remove before you can remove bolts). Locate where to drill hole in pan (approx. centered on 2 hole directly above oil drain, 1" down from top). Drill hole in pan, weld bung onto pan. _ (Pan with pre-welded bung included if you pay the $250 for all the other goodies) _ Reinstall oil pan (see below); make sure that the gasket is good (some sealer (silicone like substance) can be used sparingly around gasket/pan). Install brass 90° onto pan (use thread sealer), install Y2" NPT-5/8" with barbed end (use thread sealer), install 5/8 hose onto barbed adapter (use lubrication....it goes on a lot easier). Install oil drain flange/gasket onto turbo (this uses the imperial bolts supplied). Install-10 fitting onto end of oil drain hose and attach to oil drain flange. _This drain hose comes pre-assembled from Kinetic and if you can get it apart more power to you. What I did was attach the hose to the oil pan BEFORE installing the pan. If you look at the fitting that screws onto the 90° coming out of the pan you’ll see that it is right between the drive axle and the oil pan flange, very hard to get a wrench on. _
9) Reinstall intake manifold, use new gaskets if warranted. _ (Included if you pay the $250 for the oil pan and all the other goodies) _Install silicone inlet piece (rotate compressor housing to facilitate ease of installation). Tighten bolts on compressor housing. _ Once again, I did not loosen one bolt on my turbo; there was no need to. _
10) Install flex pipe onto down pipe using t-bolt clamp 4043. Install down pipe onto turbo. _You are going to need some sort of seal between the turbo and the down pipe here unless you want 1000° exhaust blowing out of this connection. Kinetic has told people to use high temp RTV and I’m sure it will work just fine but I prefer a good old high temp gasket. NAPA will sell you a big sheet of it for ~$11. _ Install stainless flange with tube onto flex pipe, install waste gate onto manifold and attach onto flange/flex (use gaskets) tighten all clamps/bolts. Attach down pipe to cat, install 02 sensor.
11) If the car is equipped with AC, gently bend lines _ (ya right) _so that when the turbo inlet silicone is installed, the lines won't rub. Install inlet pieces and attach inlet tube to back of block. Remove MAF element from housing and install into new aluminum housing. Install air filter to new MAF and install into car.
12) Install molded hose from valve cover to inlet, install Bosch blow off valve to throttle body silicone, use 1" hose to attach to inlet piece. OBD-1 cars need to install hose between compressor housing and idle speed controller. _This part for my OBD-1 was overlooked; make sure you have them include this piece too! _
13) Replace vacuum hose which runs between intake manifold and EVAP solenoid with silicone hose, install 1 vacuum tee near throttle body run line to waste gate. Run hose towards the passenger side of car install the other tee and run 3/16" vacuum hose to blow off valve. The 1-way check valve is placed before the EV AP solenoid so that vacuum opens the check valve and boost closes the valve.
14) Locate the computer in rain tray: remove the computer from car, remove from bracket and open case. Take note what the orientation of the chip is, carefully remove factory chip from socket on board and replace with chip supplied (usually found taped to MAF housing). Reinstall computer into car. _Do not even think of doing this without the battery disconnected. _
15) Check all clamps, bolts and don't forget to refill the oil! _I can actually see how it would be easy to get excited and forget the oil here. _Reinstall battery. Turn key to on, but do not start. The throttle body needs to recalibrate, it will buzz for approx. 20 seconds.
16) Start the car. _Let the oil get to 180° before you even try to go out and put boost to it. You will notice a burning smell and smoke as the engine warms up, this is normal as the anti-corrosive cooks off of the exhaust side of the turbo. _
_Modified by bobstr at 3:13 AM 4-4-2005_


_Modified by bobstr at 3:15 AM 4-4-2005_


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Looks good to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Nice work.


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## Pimpalicious316 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: (bobstr)*

sick! just, sick! thanks for the write up man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
~Andrew

edit: what does this part mean:
"If the car is equipped with AC, gently bend lines (ya right) so that when..."
what do you mean ya right? do they not gently bend?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (Pimpalicious316)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pimpalicious316* »_sick! just, sick! thanks for the write up man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
~Andrew

edit: what does this part mean:
"If the car is equipped with AC, gently bend lines (ya right) so that when..."
what do you mean ya right? do they not gently bend?

Hah, my AC sprung a leak when I tried to bend the lines... BOOM!


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## dubsouth (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_I'm working on them but I would like to see if VRT, beetlevdubn, or dubsouth have anything to add.


Job well done Bobstr! Everything is on point.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 30gtivr6 (Apr 1, 2005)

ok bobster/vrt/c2/dubsouth.
what are these injector #'s youre talking about? 
that and i ahve a N/A 3.0 L, schrick 268's, ported head, matched to the injector housing matched to a ported EIP manifold. Given these, im about to rebuild a shortblock, any suggestions on displacement? Will 268s run with a turbo or will there be to much overlap AND how hard would it be to add an IC to this kenitic kit?


_Modified by 30gtivr6 at 2:40 PM 4/6/2005_


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (30gtivr6)*


_Quote »_what are these injector #'s youre talking about?

What do you mean?

_Quote »_ Will 268s run with a turbo

Probably not.

_Quote »_how hard would it be to add an IC to this kenitic kit?

I'll let you know in a few weeks I ordered the my IC today.


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## Pimpalicious316 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_i'll let you know in a few weeks I ordered the my IC today.

hehe
~Andrew


_Modified by Pimpalicious316 at 7:22 AM 4-7-2005_


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (Pimpalicious316)*

For the record I didn't order the Kinetic IC Kit. I'm doing my own, so don't go getting all excited


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## 30gtivr6 (Apr 1, 2005)

haha







keep us updated and take a few pictures
I figured it out at the C2 page and before when i asked i was refering to injectors:
Fuel injectors 
30# Injectors Pricing 
Bosch or Siemens Fuel Injectors (set of 6) $249.00 
36# Injectors 
Bosch or Siemens Fuel Injectors (set of 6) $275.00 
42# Injectors 
Bosch or Siemens Fuel Injectors (set of 6) $299.00 



_Modified by 30gtivr6 at 8:44 PM 4/7/2005_


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (30gtivr6)*

Bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 94SLCBORICUA (Sep 11, 2003)

I AM WAITING FOR MY NEW KIT FROM kINETIC. GLAD I FOUND ALL THIS INFO, BESIDE THE ARTICLES I READ IN EUROPEAN CAR AND EURO TUNER MAGS, I WAS A LITTLE SKEPTICAL. THANKS. ONE QUESTION, MY SACH CLUTCH HAS AROUND 45K, SHOULD IT BE REPLACED? i DONT DO THE DRAG RACING THING, HAD ENOUGH OF THAT ABOUT THIRTY YEARS AGO. JUST ENOUGH UMPH WHEN hONDAS AND THE OTHER BUGS GET IN FRONT OF ME.


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## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (94SLCBORICUA)*

If you want a piece of that gasket material for the impeller/downpipe connection let me know. I'm not trying to make money on it I just hate to see it go to waste. That offer stands for anyone. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (bobstr)*

I'm pretty sure I found a kink in the armor of this setup. I have let the car idle for long periods of time and after doing this the car runs like $hit.







I drove my car around town running errands almost all day, not really going too fast but just driving around town and I got the same problem. I came home put a fan on the motor, in the back, to cool everything down. After 15 minutes I started the car and she ran like a daisy.







Theory: I think the idle speed controller get too hot and fails. Any input? Time for a heat shield me thinks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by bobstr at 3:02 PM 4-16-2005_


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*

just try cleanign the ISV. Mine would randomly idle crappy (surging). I cleaned out the valve a couple of weeks ago, and its way smoother now. What are your oil and water temps when its been idling for a long time? There is no reason that you should be getting any abnormal heat in the engine bay if its just idling, as at that point it's essentially running as a NA car.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

Headed for the dyno on Friday. I will post my sheet when I get home.


----------



## #6jettaC (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (bobstr)*

ok now that more people have this set up i have a few questions.
i hear alot of talk about low egt numbers, thats with what air fuel ratio?
it comes with a 7lb spring in the w/g? what kinda boost spikes are you guys looking at?
what clutchs are you guys using and how are they holding up? anyone with lsd?
notice any difference in oil temps?
how many miles do most of you guys using the kit have on your cars?
whatelse did you do when you bought this kit if you weren't fi already.
thanks in advance.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (#6jettaC)*


_Quote »_it comes with a 7lb spring in the w/g? what kinda boost spikes are you guys looking at?

No, .4 bar (5.80psi) No boost spikes with that spring.

_Quote »_what clutchs are you guys using and how are they holding up?

Stock, just fine if your not abusive like the rest of these guy's









_Quote »_notice any difference in oil temps?

Not really.

_Quote »_how many miles do most of you guys using the kit have on your cars?

62k

_Quote »_whatelse did you do when you bought this kit if you weren't fi already.

Nothing.
Let us know if we can guinee pig anything else for you












_Modified by .:VRT:. at 11:34 PM 4-19-2005_


----------



## #6jettaC (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

.
_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_
Let us know if we can guinee pig anything else for you








_Modified by .:VRT:. at 11:34 PM 4-19-2005_

nope that covers everything for me.


----------



## speedesign (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (#6jettaC)*

How long did everyones kit normally take to arrive? I ordered mine on April 6th but still haven't seen anything. From what I understand it shipped last friday. I'm in maryland....would I be correct in hoping it will be here by monday ( when my mechanic takes the car ) ? Thanks! and can't wait til next weekend when she's running http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (speedesign)*

Doing it yourself is half the fun.








Learning is half of living.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

Has anyone put ceramic coating on their exhaust manifold and the hot side of their turbo? I've priced out in my part of town and it's pretty reasonable, just wondering if it's worth it or not?? It claims to reduce the temps up to 30%


----------



## Roccorace (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: (UberMike)*

Thanks for the 6 months of good info! Keep it going with new and exciting stuff like when that newly ordered IC gets on that car! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (Roccorace)*

Dyno day ladies and gents. Big smiles all the way around!

























NGK BKR7E-11 plugs gapped to .22. 
DSR 256's
TT 2.5" cat back
Kinetic Turbo kit
Kudos to the guys at Rennen Performance in Portland,Maine. Took the time to troubleshoot my CEL and give me 3 runs on the dyno (the above being the best) and only charged me $75.







I was totally impressed with their service and willingness to share tips and info with me.


----------



## speedesign (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (bobstr)*

is this with stock spring that comes with the kit? god i can't wait til mine shows up....come on ups...







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (speedesign)*

8.5 psi spring, holds right at 10 psi on the gauge.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bobstr* »_Dyno day ladies and gents. Big smiles all the way around!








Kudos to the guys at Rennen Performance in Portland,Maine. Took the time to troubleshoot my CEL and give me 3 runs on the dyno (the above being the best) and only charged me $75.







I was totally impressed with their service and willingness to share tips and info with me.


AFR looks a little ~fat. (rich)
I had a similar issue comparing my in-car Motec to the dyno wideband.
(dyno sensor reading ~significantly richer than mine)
Did you notice what the exhaust looked like while running on
the dyno? AFR as rich as you ~report, will be noticable black
smoke. 

The power numbers are where they should be. 

-Jeff


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

nope, no black smoke. I think an intercooler and 3 more psi would be the ticket.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (bobstr)*

is that a post cat tail pipe sniffer A/F reading? 
nice numbers regardless.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

yes it was. I'm kind of pi$$ed I didn't take a camera with me to snap some shots or even some video. 
Once again the service was stellar, I can't say enough about Rick and his crew.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

I see you found the thread.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Haha, yeh. I knew I had seen it before, but couldn't remember what I searched for. I have a newbie question though. I have tried to find out on my own but am coming up with nothing. What is the main difference between a wastegate and a BOV? Can you have both installed at once or is it one or the other?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

I just spoke to my friend and he confirmed what the difference between the wastegate and blow off valve were. Now, does anyone know where you can install a BOV on this kit? I asked Kinetic but I am still waiting to hear back from them. Anyone with some input, please shed some light.


_Modified by crazykidbig58 at 1:05 PM 4-26-2005_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

No BOV... (dumping overboard)
Install one if you MUST, but driveability will suffer.
-Jeff
Come down to Hamden if you get the chance.
I do a lot of rt8 tuning, and pass Torrington ~often.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Why you would drop 200+ on a blow off valve is beyond me, when the kit already comes with a DV. You can't use a valve that vents to the atmosphere with this kit. It must recirc.


----------



## v5turbo (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: (bobstr)*

Who the hell made this tuning ?








Hope it aint you Jeff








For super tuned car = lambda 0,88 =12,94:1 AF
For street car ..12,6-12,4 fine tuned
under 11.8-11,5 even with BT 500ish hp i just pure madness!!!!


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Well you guys definately know your stuff. Thanks for the input. If the BOV is not necessary, I will not install one then. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Come down to Hamden if you get the chance.
I do a lot of rt8 tuning, and pass Torrington ~often.










Jeff, I am glad you chimed in. I have seen some of your posts and you definately seem very knowledgable when it comes to turbocharging. I am glad you are right here in CT! What does one have to do to have their vehicle tuned by you? Let me know so we can hopefully set something up after I install the turbo. On a side note, do you do installs, or help people install turbos?


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Why would you have him tune what he's already tuned?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

I'm sorry. I am a noob when it comes to turbocharging. I might make myself look like an ass on here, but I plan to learn as much as possible with this install, so if I say or ask stupid things, don't give me too much siht for it. 
I thought that you tuned the engines after you install the turbos, or were you saying they come tuned and everything is good to go right after the install?


----------



## A2brb (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

From what I understand, it should be bolt on and go!


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote »_I'm sorry. I am a noob when it comes to turbocharging. I might make myself look like an ass on here

It's all good, Jeff is the one who did the tuning for the kit, it's already done. No need to do any more.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Ok, so then would it need to be tuned if I upgrade the boost then?


----------



## A2brb (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

When I ordered my kit, Chris asked me what my future plans were for my car. I told him that I wanted to run a FMIC, get 285hp at the wheels, running 8-9psi. IIRC, He said that is very reachable with the stage1 kit running a FMIC. 
I would not have to upgrage my injectors and would not have to run a headspacer to reach my future goal.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (A2brb)*

Very nice to hear! Wonder when my kit is going to be shipping. Maybe I should give them a call...


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

You can run 10psi on the Stage I fueling kit no problem.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Can this kit be run on 93 octane? I see Kinetics site says run 94 but I don't have 94 in my area. Will 93 be a problem?


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

No problem.


----------



## animal1 (Nov 28, 2003)

this may sound stupid...i heard if you turn the dv around so its backwards it will sound like a bov. idk if it works or not some dude with a 1.8t said somethin about that. if i got the kit i wouldnt do it. just makes it obviouse you have a turbo. i like the way kinetics car sounded on the dyno...just kinds sounds like a big motor pullin in air.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (animal1)*

Interesting. I am now starting to think of where I want to put my gauges. I don't want to have them mounted on the pillar as it would be obvious I have a turbo, so I was thinking down around the cup holders. However, it would be too difficult to look down there as well as stupid as I would be taking my eyes off the road. *Anyone have any good suggestions on where to install the gauges, also, recommendations for where to buy them?*


_Modified by crazykidbig58 at 12:07 AM 4-27-2005_


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

check 42draftdesigns.com
or simply put the guage on the steering column


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Thanks for the link. I think I might have to do some custom work. I want the additional gauges to be somewhat hidden. It is just so obvious when you pull up next to someone and you see 3 gauges running up the A pillar. I was thinking about putting them down where the cup holder is, but I think that would be a pain as they might be too low down there. I will get the gauges and see where they fit best.


----------



## stallinbenji (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

so i've spent the last couple nights on here reading as much as i can about the kinetic kit...i'm just wandering how tunable the c2 software is and what all i should upgrade when buying the kit to be able to produce more boost down the road....i will already be running 9:1 compression with the help of a schimmel HG and i'll have a P&P head with schrick valve springs when i to turbo the car most likeley with this kit....what kind on numbers could i expect with that and say the c2 stage II fueling kit and sometime down the road an intercooler setup???? i'm not looking to push insane numbers through my engine...but i would like to get maybe some mid 12 second pulls out of it reliably...is that being realistic with what i have listed???


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (stallinbenji)*

Does anyone know if installing the turbo will hurt my emissions? I have to go get tested at some point, but I don't want to get tested before the turbo goes on. Does anyone know?


----------



## AggvGtivr6 (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

With the C2 software, it requires you to un-plug your O2 sensors, which will throw codes and cause a CEL. So no, it will not pass emmisions. Depending on how your area does its testing, either just reading the codes, or doing the sniff test, the sniff test it should pass. But it will fail the code check if you have any O2 faults. 
From what ive read, C2 is developing software which you wont have to un-plug the O2 sensors.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (AggvGtivr6)*

Hmm, maybe I should wait for the software to come out? I will obviously need to pass emissions...Is there any time frame on when the C2 software will be out?


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Hmm, maybe I should wait for the software to come out? I will obviously need to pass emissions...Is there any time frame on when the C2 software will be out?

You will pass emissions with our present software......been doing so for 4 years now








Until the updated CEL patch is available, we include the step by step procedure for resetting CEL codes prior to inspection; got to inpection, pass with flying colors....then back to making boost.
C2


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Excellent. Are the step by step instructions included with the kit?


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*









Of Course.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

There are only three steps involved.
1. install the parts.
2. press right foot
3. smile


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

Are you guys using the stock exhaust ?


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (fastslc)*

going from a stock exhaust to a proper turbo 2.5 or 3" system will net you about 25hp on setups like this (mine is a welded 2.5 stainless with no cat and a high flow muffler).


----------



## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Excellent. Are the step by step instructions included with the kit?

Mine didn't come with any. But if you need instructions with this kit, you should not be installing it! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (patatron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *patatron* »_Mine didn't come with any. But if you need instructions with this kit, you should not be installing it! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









My comment was in regards to C2 about passing the smog test, not installing the kit itself. On a side note, why shouldn't one need the instructions? I know it is a fairly simple bolt on, but some people do like to have a reference to go by when installing a pretty major part in their vehicle. Am I the only one that thinks like this, or do I just look like a fool for following directions on installing a turbo?


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

USE THE T.O. follow TECH DATA. Uncle Sam will corupt your mind.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
My comment was in regards to C2 about passing the smog test, not installing the kit itself. On a side note, why shouldn't one need the instructions? I know it is a fairly simple bolt on, but some people do like to have a reference to go by when installing a pretty major part in their vehicle. Am I the only one that thinks like this, or do I just look like a fool for following directions on installing a turbo?

Instructions come with the kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You can also find the instructions at the following linke:
http://www.kineticmotorsport.c...l.doc
There was also someone that did an addendum to these instructions with some of his perspective, you'd have to find it on the two running threads detailing this kit (one I think is 34 pages and this one is 13?)
Cheers


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_
There was also someone that did an addendum to these instructions with some of his perspective, you'd have to find it on the two running threads detailing this kit (one I think is 34 pages and this one is 13?)
Cheers









I believe I read it in this thread. I think BOBSTR (???) did them. Pretty good to have. My kit is shipping next week. I cannot wait to get it. However, I don't think I will be able to install it until the weekend of the 20th - 22nd. I'll let you all know how it goes. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Are there any bolts or anything that I should worry about replacing, in the event that they break off upon installation? This car is my daily and I want as little as possible to go wrong during the install. *Did anyone who has already installed the kit have any problems with anything breaking and needed it to be replaced? *


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Please reread the directions I modified and notice the bolts I recommended for the downpipe to cat flange.


----------



## causticwindow (May 11, 2004)

if i have an 95 gti vr6 will this kit include a ecu ? or will i have to tune it myself via piggyback ?


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (causticwindow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *causticwindow* »_if i have an 95 gti vr6 will this kit include a ecu ? or will i have to tune it myself via piggyback ?

It includes a chip for your existing ecu.


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

I am set to buy in the near future but I have a few questions. First I am running DSR 256 cams will I get the correct fueling for such. Two for stage II will it intergrate with the current kit. Thanks.


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (spiritgun1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spiritgun1* »_I am set to buy in the near future but I have a few questions. First I am running DSR 256 cams will I get the correct fueling for such. Two for stage II will it intergrate with the current kit. Thanks.

On page 12 of this thread you'll see my dyno and if you read the lines on the bottom of the post you'll also see I have DSR 256's. That dyno was running 10 psi at the gauge with an 8.75 psi spring and the a/f was still a little fat. I think an intercooler and 3~4 more psi would put the a/f right on the money. Keep in mind I also have #36 injectors. 
As far as stage II goes, I was told by [email protected] that it was a matter of clocking the turbo and installing the plumbing. I also think the FMIC requires some mods to the front end but I'm not really sure. 
Buy it, you'll dig it.


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (bobstr)*

thanks man, so there is a future with this kit. (homer voice) mmmmmm booooooost.


----------



## XVWJettaX (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (spiritgun1)*

c2 software is top notch let alone there customer service. Most people dont realize that a bov or dv/ is just to prevet the turbo from stalling. On mas ari cars u need to run a dv valve or swap over to map sensor and go with a stand alone. From what ive heard this kit is the best driveable kit there is. Sure atp made kits but from what i have heard in reliability c2 is next to none. I had there supercharger kit on my vr6 worked great no problems sold the car and now the other owner hasnt had any other problems either. As for exhaust i would say TT 2.5 catless and boy does it sound mean thats all i can say is wow. ANd for the people that want crazy power my car was putting down 250-260 and it was one damn fast car with this if you got right aroudn 300 that would be a smoking fast car and have reliability what else could you ask for


----------



## SullenSolace (Feb 5, 2005)

The one thing I get confused about is with the safety of all this. Too much boost is bad w/o an ic but it can be corrected by a head spacer. I however would like to keep my 10:1 rather than a 9:1 or 8.5:1. So if I added a fmic to this would it be safe to up it to around 12lbs of boost? What else would I have to do? Bigger injectors? Possibly stage II fueling kit? 
Ideally I want to make 300whp, but I want my car to be just as reliable as it is now.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (SullenSolace)*

12psi is really pushing it on stock compression even with an IC. It would probably be ok for a while but for how long is the real question. What I'm curious about is the VF kit's, NONE of them include a spacer.... But then again their ony pushing 10psi with their Stage III.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Good news! My kit is coming in on Wednesday! I also had a local shop custom make a gauge pod today. It should be ready by the time I install the turbo (memorial day weekend). I will let you guys know how it goes. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SullenSolace (Feb 5, 2005)

is it possible to get a 9.5:1 hs or would it be better to just go with the 9:1 that C2 sells?


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (SullenSolace)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SullenSolace* »_is it possible to get a 9.5:1 hs or would it be better to just go with the 9:1 that C2 sells?

If you want to run higher boost safely then you should go with the 9:1 Headspacer. You should also consider ARP Head Studs and rod bolts once you have the head off. 
Being over precautious is better than taking unecessary risks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SullenSolace (Feb 5, 2005)

_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_You should also consider ARP Head Studs and rod bolts once you have the head off.

How much extra does that run?


----------



## 1991 VR-6 JETTA (Feb 13, 2005)

*Re: (SullenSolace)*

i am thinking of getting a kit,but i am wondering if the intake boot will work no proplem with a Schrick intake manifold??
The Schrick intake makes the throtle body point down more then the stock intake manifold does.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (1991 VR-6 JETTA)*

I finished installing the kit tonight with my buddy but my car won't start...It looks like there is no spark to the spark plugs. Anyone have any suggestions as to what the problem could be? Please help.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

put your stock chip in and see if it'll start.
go through the wiring. make sure that everything you've unhooked is hooked back up.
is it getting fuel?


----------



## Erakem (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

Did you let your throttle body recalibrate before you started the car? It usally takes 20sec.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Erakem)*

Yes I did. We let the car sit about 3 minutes in the on position before starting it. I am going to check now to see if it is getting fuel. nIt won't hurt anything if I put my stock chip back in?


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

As long as you don't boost. Just starting it won't hurt it. I don't think it's the chip, if it were the chip it wouldn't turn over at all. It's either fuel or spark.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Put the stock chip back in and it started up fine. Just ate some breakfest and going back out to put the other chip in to see if it will start.


----------



## Erakem (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Are you installing the C2 chip the exact same direction as the stock chip is put in?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

IM sent

-Jeff


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Erakem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Erakem* »_Are you installing the C2 chip the exact same direction as the stock chip is put in?

There is only one way for the chips to go in. They are notched out in one of the corners. I tried the C2 chip again but it didn't work. I hope it will not be a problem getting a new one. I need it asap though because I am leaving town on Wednesday.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
I need it asap though because I am leaving town on Wednesday.

You could have had it ~yesterday.
My shop is in Hamden.

-Jeff


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Is there a number I can reach you at?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_You could have had it ~yesterday. My shop is in Hamden. -Jeff

You have a number that I could reach you at?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Going down to see Jeff tonight.







Hopefully he will be able to figure out what the problem is with my chip (or even if that is the problem). Can't wait to actually use the new power.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Thanks to Jeff, we figured out the problem with my chip. He is a cool guy and if anyone is local to CT you should swing by if you ever need anything. Smart man!. Thanks again Jeff! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SullenSolace (Feb 5, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Any more info on the realease of the mk4 kit?


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

FREE T-Shirts...come and get'em.....
No really, they are FREE...









http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2007919

C2


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Do the T-Shirts have the release date of the MKIV kit on them


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_FREE T-Shirts...come and get'em.....
No really, they are FREE...









http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2007919

C2

Man, I just hope you guys send it via USPS to Canada. I had a Porsche BBK sent via FedEx Ground and I got burned large on brokerage and taxes!!








But then again, now I have kick ass Boxster Calipers/Brake setup








To the VR turbo club


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (UberMike)*

I am about 5 days from ordering from BBM my question is breakin period for the kit. Or bolt and boost right out the garage.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (spiritgun1)*

no realy break-in. However if you boost right out of the garage you're going to kill the motor pretty fast. You should really try to stay off of boost until the motor and oil is warmed up.


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

kinda what i meant but thanks. just didnt know if the turbo needed to have a mile period on it.


----------



## SullenSolace (Feb 5, 2005)

are you supposed to stay outta boost as much as possible until the engine is up to temp? that seems kinda rediculous.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (SullenSolace)*

buy an oil pressure gauge and watch what happens when you drive a cold motor hard (NA or FI).


----------



## rossmc1 (Feb 29, 2004)

*Re: (SullenSolace)*

why does that seem rediculous
If u r meant to keep a n/a motor out of high rev till it warm's up,then why would fitting a turbo make it safe to nail it when it cold


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (rossmc1)*


_Quote »_are you supposed to stay outta boost as much as possible until the engine is up to temp? that seems kinda rediculous.

LMAO! Your not supposed to beat on ANY car until the temps are up. Whether it's FI OR N/A is irrelivent.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Seriously though, my car takes about 5 - 6 minutes until it is up to about 180 degrees. Just don't drive it hard for roughly that time....After that you should be good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Seriously though, my car takes about 5 - 6 minutes until it is up to about 180 degrees. Just don't drive it hard for roughly that time....After that you should be good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Hey, how is your kit holding up so far??


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_Hey, how is your kit holding up so far??









Runs great, thanks for asking! Actually, I had a guy in town custom make a gauge pod, I will take some pics and post them up for you guys. 
On a side note, I remember seeing some posts about an oil leak. Does anyone have an oil pressure gauge hooked up, and that is why you are seeing the leak? I fixed mine last night. The problem I had was over tightening the compression fitting. Seems to be good now.
Love the kit though! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif x10


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

anyone with stage II yet I know its out but I just cant do $3700 right now but Ill order stage I on Monday.
























































http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif































































Man I am so confused I need boost.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
Love the kit though! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif x10


Have you dyno'd your kit yet? Are you running anything other than the stock kit? (larger spring in the wastegate, etc...)?
Cheers


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (UberMike)*

Stock kit, altho I might be turning the boost up soon. I don't want to rush into it. Only about 750 miles on the kit right now. No dyno yet. Oil started leaking from the oil pressure vaccum line again.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

What do you all think of my gauges?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

nice gauges 
ONE exception:
Dump the narrowband AFR 'lightshow' gauge.
(not useful when you care about afr richer than ~13.0,
i.e. from zero boost up)
Replace with a wideband o2 sensor/gauge. (best)
or egt guage (2nd best)

-Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_nice gauges 
ONE exception:
Dump the narrowband AFR 'lightshow' gauge.
(not useful when you care about afr richer than ~13.0,
i.e. from zero boost up)
Replace with a wideband o2 sensor/gauge. (best)
or egt guage (2nd best)

-Jeffrey Atwood

Yeh, I remember you were saying this. I did not hook up the A/F gauge, I figured I would stick it in until a new gauge comes in. Didn't want a hole in the pod. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Wish BBM would quote me shipping. I would order right now or Ill order from Chris. hmmmm Then again who can get here the fastest.


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (spiritgun1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spiritgun1* »_Wish BBM would quote me shipping. I would order right now or Ill order from Chris. hmmmm Then again who can get here the fastest. 

IM sent....Monday special, order today, and C2 will pay the shipping








C2


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Quick question. First I will start by saying I don't usually use my A/C that much as it needs to be recharged. Having it done tomorrow, so for $hits I turned it on today. When I turned it on, I got a blast of fuel/oil smell coming from the vents. I am guessing this is caused by the turbo, but it is only a guess. Anyone have any input on this?
edit:: 15 owned


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

what did you do with the Valve cover vent?

-Jeff


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Not really sure what you mean by valve cover vent. If it is what I think it is, it gets sent back into the intake....


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

FI newbie here I am definitely buying this kit.... even after reading this and the ginormous 40+ page Vortex thread, I have a few questions - if anyone would like to help







Do I *need* gauges? What 3 would be most important? What is the item called that allows you to 'dial' up a certain psi? Where would that item be installed? Can I / should I retain my Neuspeed P-flow instead of the intake supplied by Kinetic? And lastly - can anyone give me a reason NOT to do this??????


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_FI newbie here I am definitely buying this kit.... even after reading this and the ginormous 40+ page Vortex thread, I have a few questions - if anyone would like to help







Do I *need* gauges? What 3 would be most important? What is the item called that allows you to 'dial' up a certain psi? Where would that item be installed? Can I / should I retain my Neuspeed P-flow instead of the intake supplied by Kinetic? And lastly - can anyone give me a reason NOT to do this??????









I'm not running any guages yet, but will be in the near future. You could keep track of Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Boost, A/F, etc...
With regards to controlling the PSI, that takes place in the Wastegate. The spring that comes with the Stg.I kit will produce 6psi. If you want to "dial" up the boost you could install a boost controller. 
Go with the intake supplied in the kit, I got rid of my P-Flo.
No reason not to get the kit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
IM sent....Monday special, order today, and C2 will pay the shipping








C2


I have an idea. Do that every Monday.
Your phones will ring 1 day then


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (tim frame)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim frame* »_
I have an idea. Do that every Monday.
Your phones will ring 1 day then









Okay, C2Motorsports is up to your challenge...
Fore "EVERYONE" that orders a complete kit on Mondays...we will pay the shipping








How about that?
C2


----------



## Pimpalicious316 (Apr 7, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_Okay, C2Motorsports is up to your challenge...
Fore "EVERYONE" that orders a complete kit on Mondays...we will pay the shipping








How about that?
C2

and that is why c2 has earned so much business. amazing chris, simply amazing.
~Andrew
P.S. my car was the center of attention at the local F1 party last night


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Thats what Im talking about. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTIVR6Red (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re:Kinetic's VRT*

Installed the kit last week and everything O.K. Car fired up 1st shot with no CEL. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif All I can say is WOW what a difference.







Yesterday I got a CEL. opened hood and noticed a gap between down pipe and exhaust side of manifold. There was a gasket there. The guy at NAPA that sold it to me said it would work in high temp places. He was wrong. After viewin pics of other setups I dont see a gasket. Anyone have any input or suggestions that could help me out?


----------



## bobstr (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: Re:Kinetic's VRT (GTIVR6Red)*

If you look back on my posts I have offered up some gasket material that has worked very well for me. IM me and I'll send you a piece.


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
Okay, C2Motorsports is up to your challenge...
Fore "EVERYONE" that orders a complete kit on Mondays...we will pay the shipping








How about that?
C2

Chris you are sooo dope. C2 is the greatest thing ever. Sorry sliced bread you cant ride shotgun anymore.


----------



## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (spiritgun1)*

Oh the question. What exhausts are people running with this kit. I was just thinking of fabing my own dp back all 2.5in. Just pick up some muffler.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (spiritgun1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spiritgun1* »_Oh the question. What exhausts are people running with this kit. I was just thinking of fabing my own dp back all 2.5in. Just pick up some muffler.

Running a 2.5" TT catback. Flow is good, drives awesome.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_FI newbie here I am definitely buying this kit.... even after reading this and the ginormous 40+ page Vortex thread, I have a few questions - if anyone would like to help







Do I *need* gauges? What 3 would be most important? What is the item called that allows you to 'dial' up a certain psi? Where would that item be installed? Can I / should I retain my Neuspeed P-flow instead of the intake supplied by Kinetic? And lastly - can anyone give me a reason NOT to do this??????









Gauges are key. Even though you are a "newbie" you still need to see what is going on. Clearly you want a boost gauge. You want to make sure that you are not getting any spikes in your boost. I would also recommend an oil pressure gauge. Lastly, go with an EGT gauge and have it drilled into your exhaust mani prior to installation of this kit. It just saves the worries of getting metal scraps into the exhaust mani which will go into the turbo. Per Jeff Atwood (Jefnes3) you will not need an Air/Fuel gauge as the chip that comes with the kit is tuned for the proper fueling. 
You should get rid of your P-Flo. I did, it is alot smaller than Kinetics, probably a good 2 inches. 
The only reason I could think to tell someone not to buy this kit is funds. Don't come walking in with the exact $2650 to buy it. You will need things along the way, and you don't want to be carless for weeks at a time if you have to pay for something expensive. Other than that, buy the kit, well worth the money. Your face might be stuck like this







for about a week or so though, so be ready for the permagrin. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif x10 to this kit


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
Lastly, go with an EGT gauge and have it drilled into your exhaust mani prior to installation of this kit. It just saves the worries of getting metal scraps into the exhaust mani which will go into the turbo. 

Is this seriously where the sensor goes???? _I ordered a complete gauge kit - EGT, Boost, Oil Pressure - from 42draftdesigns.com Sunday morning..._
Do I *need* coolant lines running into my throttle body with this kit? I just *may* have removed them awhile back due to a leaky 'T' connector on my upper radiator hose ~
This post rocks - thanks everyone
























_Modified by NHVeeDub at 11:23 AM 6-20-2005_


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_Is this seriously where the sensor goes????

You asking about the EGT censor? If so, yes. I believe you can put it down lower, but you want to know what the gas temps are right when they exit the manifold.


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_
Do I *need* coolant lines running into my throttle body with this kit?

Just spoke with Shawn at Kinetic.... no, one does not require coolant lines in the throttle body unless you live in Norway


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

3000 miles strong...Looking to upgrade soon. At least intercooler. What do you gusy think of the Stg II kit?


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
Until the updated CEL patch is available, we include the step by step procedure for resetting CEL codes prior to inspection; 
C2

Any news on this update?? 
Kit is in my living room, gauges in my bedroom, it's all goin in this weekend












_Modified by NHVeeDub at 12:13 PM 7-7-2005_


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

For anyone wanting to see the complete Kinetics Turbosystem INCLUDING the FMIC...make plans to come by our booth at Waterfest, as we will have a complete VR6 motor with Turbo installed in our booth.
The motor will be out of a car, so that you can see every little part, and how it all fits to the motor itself.
For anyone wanting to purchase a complete kit, we will also have that option available at Waterfest......
.....and yes, of course there will be a show SPECIAL http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
C2


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

ANy show specials for people that already have this kit? Such as a special on Stg II and/or Stg III kits?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_
Any news on this update??








Has anyone installed an EGT gauge with this kit? Where do you have the probe installed? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks

_Modified by NHVeeDub at 2:06 AM 7-7-2005_

Believe it goes right into the exhaust mani. Probably easier to install before the kit is on the car.


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

The kit went on this weekend. Total time hovered around 20 hours but I was also installing gauges and probes. PERMAGRIN! If you're hovering around whether or not to buy the kit, for god's sake buy it! You will not be dissapointed. 
Some advice for those who buy, either buy a bunch of extra clamps or be near someplace to buy clamps! There are some places that some should be added and in my case, some that were supplied were a bit small and incurred some swearing while trying to get them on








Unless you know turbos well, and I don't, it's hard to know what parts are what when you're inspecting your kit before installation. I wasn't missing anything but if you are, you may not know it until you're trying to put it in I had the most trouble figuring out the boost tubing between the diverter valve, throttle body, wastegate and EVAP solenoid. I still don't know if I have it right. I was unable to find instructions or pictures of a fully tubed kit. I'm gonna do a lot of research to ensure I've got the right setup.
The Kinetic supplied instructions are a little vague and you will need your Bentley and any others DIYs to do the install. For example, you def need to take the front end off to get to the oil filter housing. And you def need to remove the oil filter housing. It's worth the extra two hours - I don't know how you would do the work with that stuff on the car. It's helpful to have someone helping you who is experienced with cars and mechanics in general. My dad helped me through the whole thing and was much needed for lots of little things. At the very least, a second pair of hands and a second set of eyes is a must.
Oh yeah, limited slip is much needed. Pound the throttle in first and when the boost kicks in, the tires start squeeling. It's awesome, but of course, I'm losing traction








I'm very satisfied, no complaints other than the clamp thing but big deal right?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_The kit went on this weekend. Total time hovered around 20 hours but I was also installing gauges and probes. PERMAGRIN! If you're hovering around whether or not to buy the kit, for god's sake buy it! You will not be dissapointed. 
Some advice for those who buy, either buy a bunch of extra clamps or be near someplace to buy clamps! There are some places that some should be added and in my case, some that were supplied were a bit small and incurred some swearing while trying to get them on








Unless you know turbos well, and I don't, it's hard to know what parts are what when you're inspecting your kit before installation. I wasn't missing anything but if you are, you may not know it until you're trying to put it in I had the most trouble figuring out the boost tubing between the diverter valve, throttle body, wastegate and EVAP solenoid. I still don't know if I have it right. I was unable to find instructions or pictures of a fully tubed kit. I'm gonna do a lot of research to ensure I've got the right setup.
The Kinetic supplied instructions are a little vague and you will need your Bentley and any others DIYs to do the install. For example, you def need to take the front end off to get to the oil filter housing. And you def need to remove the oil filter housing. It's worth the extra two hours - I don't know how you would do the work with that stuff on the car. It's helpful to have someone helping you who is experienced with cars and mechanics in general. My dad helped me through the whole thing and was much needed for lots of little things. At the very least, a second pair of hands and a second set of eyes is a must.
Oh yeah, limited slip is much needed. Pound the throttle in first and when the boost kicks in, the tires start squeeling. It's awesome, but of course, I'm losing traction








I'm very satisfied, no complaints other than the clamp thing but big deal right?









Good job, take some pics! It feels good to be a VRT, doesn't it?!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
Good job, take some pics! It feels good to be a VRT, doesn't it?!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Damn right!!!








During the install - raises property value while in front yard http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








Done!








Blends right in doesn't it?








So much power, so little room


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

Looks good! We didn't have to take the radiator off, just lifted it up and supported it with blocks. Actually, my buddy did that all by himself when I was out buying coolant.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Can you take a pic of your gauges??? I wanted to put mine where you put yours, but instead I had a guy in town mold me up a gauge pod. See below.


















_Modified by crazykidbig58 at 9:40 PM 7-11-2005_


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Here are the gauge pics:


















_Modified by NHVeeDub at 11:02 AM 7-12-2005_


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

I'll fix that red x in a sec as I am already down at work, but I have a question first. You say you have the EGT gauge. Did you drill a hole into the exhaust mani for it? If not, where is it going?


----------



## Digital K (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: (MDTurborocco)*

Is it possible for me to just order the ECU? Im thinkin maybe I could assemble or have the other stuff assembled for me locally....


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_You say you have the EGT gauge. Did you drill a hole into the exhaust mani for it? If not, where is it going?

















EGT probe tapped into exhaust manifold. I let my dad run with this task prior to installing the mani on the car. After conferring with several local mechanics (RE: muscle car-guys), he determined tapping the mani was the best bet. Welding in the bung supplied by 42draftdesigns would have required heating the mani to 600 degrees first. F that! He bought a hammer drill, which I am now the proud owner of, and tapped the mani. I was not there for this event, so I don't know how 'difficult' it is. There's a lot of threads out there on placement of the probe. What I got out of them was you can put it in the downpipe and be off by several hundred degrees, or you can put it in the hottest runner on the exhaust manifold. Mine is placed to read two of the six runners. As I have not hooked the sensor up to the gauge yet, I don't know what the result is. Where my sensor is, I should top off at 1700 degrees








As you can tell in the picture here, I do not have a heat shield over the exhaust manifold. Which was some matter of argument between my father and I. He is clearly wrong - and this weekend I'll be getting one on there.... the engine bay is soooo hot with that thing off, it's scary!
SO, this weekend, wire up gauges, install heat shield










_Modified by NHVeeDub at 11:12 AM 7-12-2005_


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

Looks good. No welding, I like that, I just don't want the metal shavings to go back down into my turbo.


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Looks good. No welding, I like that, I just don't want the metal shavings to go back down into my turbo.









Just do it off the car before it goes in, easy clean up, no problems








And just an fyi about the kit, since I couldn't find it anywhere, here's what Kinetic said about oil:
*KineticMotorsport (8:18 PM 7-12-2005): A 5W-50 oil would work well. Mobil 1 or Motul are brands we would recommend.*


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

The kit has been on for about 3k miles now.







No EGT gauge for me. I will be doing the A/F gauge though, I figure it can't hurt, plus it will look cool.


----------



## Digital K (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: (DigitaIK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DigitaIK* »_Is it possible for me to just order the ECU? Im thinkin maybe I could assemble or have the other stuff assembled for me locally....

hallo?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (DigitaIK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DigitaIK* »_
hallo?

When you say ECU, are you talking for the fueling? That can be purchased from C2 Motorsports. http://www.c2motorsports.net


----------



## Digital K (Apr 1, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_When you say ECU, are you talking for the fueling? That can be purchased from C2 Motorsports. http://www.c2motorsports.net

I just need something to run a low psi system...


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (DigitaIK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DigitaIK* »_
I just need something to run a low psi system...

So you plan on running a low psi turbo setup? Is that what you are saying? If so, I think this is what you are looking for. http://www.c2motorsports.net/fueling_kits.asp Go with the Stg I kit if you are not looking for over 300 ponies.


_Modified by crazykidbig58 at 7:52 PM 7-12-2005_


----------



## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Hey what 2 gauges are you running...boost, and oil?? My kit is on the way and I have yet to order gauges...Im thinking boost, air\fuel\oil...for now...


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

You would be wise to go boost, oil, and EGT. Do it right, like NHVDUB did and tap the exhaust mani (for the EGT gauges) before it goes on the car. I did not know, but an air fuel gauge is worthless as the fueling from C2 covers the correct air fuel ratio. It isn't like we have to tune it ourselves.


----------



## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Yeah I was checking out how he ran tapped the mani...I will do that since ill have the kit probly for 2-3 weeks before i get it on due to getting new timing chains and basic maintenance.. its gonna be a very ling 2-3 weeks...but from what you guys say Im sure its all gonna be worth it in the long run.....too fu*kin happy!!!!!


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_You would be wise to go boost, oil, and EGT.... I did not know, but an air fuel gauge is worthless as the fueling from C2 covers the correct air fuel ratio. It isn't like we have to tune it ourselves.

Exactly! I will likely get an A/F gauge for the future, just to be sure, though who knows where I'll put it







. I opted to get the EGT instead because of the C2 software. In the way distant future, I may get a stand-alone ECU management system like MegaSquirt, at which point, I will need the A/F gauge so I can tune everything myself http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Crazykidbug58 - I realized while driving yesterday, about an hour after I posted, that you already had the kit on the car - oops!!! I wouldn't want shavings in my turbo either - don't know how I'd tackle your EGT probe Can I ask - how do you have your boost tubing hooked up? There were no instructions from Kinetic on the subject, and the TIAL wastegate had generic instructions.... there were also very little images I could find online..... I want to make sure I've got the right tubing







Here's how I did mine:








The question I have is: What is the top nipple for on the wastegate? Right now, I have nothing hooked to it... and of course, is this the right tubing???? *** Sorry for the wretched MS Paint... it's 6 in the morning and I've only had one cup of coffee, and I haven't hit boost yet today










_Modified by NHVeeDub at 11:01 AM 7-13-2005_


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

RE top port:
Thats how ~where you connect a boost controller.
Add a little bit of pressure 'there' and this will get
ADDED to your BASE spring boost pressure.
-Jeff


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_Crazykidbug58 - I realized while driving yesterday, about an hour after I posted, that you already had the kit on the car - oops!!! I wouldn't want shavings in my turbo either - don't know how I'd tackle your EGT probe Can I ask - how do you have your boost tubing hooked up? There were no instructions from Kinetic on the subject, and the TIAL wastegate had generic instructions.... there were also very little images I could find online..... I want to make sure I've got the right tubing.

I'll take a pic and show you. I ran it off the FPR, I think.


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_RE top port:
Thats how ~where you connect a boost controller.
Add a little bit of pressure 'there' and this will get
ADDED to your BASE spring boost pressure.
-Jeff

Thanks a bunch! I had a hunch that's what that was for... but wanted to make sure first http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

Image of the vacuum line running to the boost gauge. 








Image of the vacuum line running to the oil pressure gauge.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (tim frame)*

Took some pics of the Kinetic Stg II kit at Waterfest. It was in C2's booth on a VR out of the car. Enjoy.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Took some pics of the Kinetic Stg II kit at Waterfest. It was in C2's booth on a VR out of the car. Enjoy.


Nice pics, I was wondering if anyone had got any shots of the C2 booth!








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (UberMike)*

Yeah, I did. I was intrigued by the Stg II kit because of the intercooler setup. It looks like it will be a bi*ch to install. Ugh...


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Yeah, I did. I was intrigued by the Stg II kit because of the intercooler setup. It looks like it will be a bi*ch to install. Ugh...

Just take the motor out of the car, it isn't too bad then......









Chris
C2


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (C2Motorsports)*

When the kit was installed, I'd say we were probably 3 - 5 steps from pulling the engine.







Hey Chris, do you guys have the Stg II kit or can that only be purchased from Kinetic?


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_When the kit was installed, I'd say we were probably 3 - 5 steps from pulling the engine.







Hey Chris, do you guys have the Stg II kit or can that only be purchased from Kinetic?

We sold the one we had on display at Waterfest...but we do have more..so Please feel free to call C2Motorsports to order the Stage I, or the Stage II VR6t kit.
We also can supply you with the upgrades as well.
chris
C2


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
We sold the one we had on display at Waterfest...but we do have more..so Please feel free to call C2Motorsports to order the Stage I, or the Stage II VR6t kit.
We also can supply you with the upgrades as well.
chris
C2

IM sent


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*

Chris, can you explain what the silver looking box is in this picture?


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Chris, can you explain what the silver looking box is in this picture?


I am assuming that you are referring to the one where the OEM battery would be???
That is a water/air IC setup made by Reflexbug.
chris
C2


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
I am assuming that you are referring to the one where the OEM battery would be???
That is a water/air IC setup made by Reflexbug.
chris
C2

Just replace the homemade quickflow with the C2 Quickflow and you can easily replicate this setup (minus a bit of fabrication that is)


----------



## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (UberMike)*

I don't know if this has been asked or not, but how well does the kinetics manifold and turbo fit with the A/C lines? I know with ATP's manifold its nearly impossible to keep the A/C and have a nice sized T04 in there..


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (MunKyBoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MunKyBoy* »_ how well does the kinetics manifold and turbo fit with the A/C lines? 

There are silicone hoses that touch some AC parts... I used some old coolant hoses to cut up and shove between the silicone part and the AC parts, just for safety's sake, but it didn't require my bending anything or removing anything.... the AC was not even an issue for my install ~ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (MunKyBoy)*


_Quote »_It looks like it will be a bi*ch to install. Ugh...

It is....


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_...so Please feel free to call C2Motorsports to order the Stage I, or the Stage II VR6t kit. We also can supply you with the upgrades as well.

When you say upgrades, do you mean software upgrades? Like upgrades so we don't have to unplug the O2 sensors, get CEL's and go through a big ordeal to pass emissions in OBD2 states?







LOL... if you have THAT sort of upgrade, I'm in - lemme know!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (NHVeeDub)*

I wish I could have made it earier on sunday to waterfest. I got to the c2/kinetic booth around 3 or something and someone was taking the turbo manifold off the motor and packing it up. God damn rain really pissed me off. I was really looking foward to seeing it in person for the first time and I had a bunch of questions, but oh well I am still getting the kit in the near future and of course it will be on a monday.


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## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (tim frame)*

i think the stage 2 kit is a good idea but why buy this as a kit?(the intercooler part).....u can get that intercooler for $300 and then get piping bent up at a local shop $300 *MAX*, add some silicone connects and t-clamps $50 maybe(not possitive) and save urself a lot of time from taking the engine out and just re-route it a MUCH EASIER way...not to mention u can say *I* designed it and save urself a good $450 bucks at the LEAST


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (burtonguy567)*

Honestly, I think its because this kit is so under priced to begin with that they have to make up for it somewhere else.








_Quote, originally posted by *burtonguy567* »_i think the stage 2 kit is a good idea but why buy this as a kit?(the intercooler part).....u can get that intercooler for $300 and then get piping bent up at a local shop $300 *MAX*, add some silicone connects and t-clamps $50 maybe(not possitive) and save urself a lot of time from taking the engine out and just re-route it a MUCH EASIER way...not to mention u can say *I* designed it and save urself a good $450 bucks at the LEAST


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (MunKyBoy)*

I'm having a hard time with the price tag on the intercooler kit as well. However, if you F up an intercooler when you piece together your own kit, you can lose a lot of boost pressure, which makes the whole ordeal counter-productive. R&D is worth the cost - thus justifying the price tag on that Kinetic kit - not to mention it's plug and play with the existing kit....
Decisions decisions.....


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (tim frame)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tim frame* »_I wish I could have made it earier on sunday to waterfest. I got to the c2/kinetic booth around 3 or something and someone was taking the turbo manifold off the motor and packing it up. God damn rain really pissed me off. I was really looking foward to seeing it in person for the first time and I had a bunch of questions, but oh well I am still getting the kit in the near future and of course it will be on a monday. 









We were fortunate enough to sell the Stage II kit right off display on Sunday afternoon








Feel free to contact us regarding any questions you may have, and when it is time to order...let us know, we would be more than happy to supply you the necessary kits, or items.
C2


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## burtonguy567 (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (MunKyBoy)*

thats a good point about how the origonal kit is so under priced i could understand that...but as far as screwing it up if u did it urself it wouldn't b all that hard like i said just get the IC, get the tubing mendrel bent to your specs. , get the BOV/DV bracket whatever u want to call it, weld that on (if u can weld, if not u could have a shop do it for little $$$), get the connectors and piece it together...its not all that hard if u really think about it


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (burtonguy567)*

Ok I bleave I am missing the 2 bolts that connect the down pipe(part that branchs off) to the bottom of the waste gate & the 4 black Allen head bolts.What are the 4 larger allen bolts for, connecting the downpipe to the turbo?? And what are the 2 small ones for??...Also Exhaust manifold bolts?? Are we supposed to resuse the stock ones?..Lastly Is there any reason why the name garret is shaved off the turbo?? Just wondering..thanks..


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Chris, can you explain what the silver looking box is in this picture?









Pat's got an awesome setup...clean and straight to the point. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (abt cup)*

So I talked to thsi guy tonight, in my town, his name is "turbo tony". He told me that I will need a new DV if I want to intercool my car. I told him no, tjat the IC kit uses the stock DV. He said that becuase it was made of plastic/rubber, I should upgrade. Does everyone agree on this?


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_So I talked to thsi guy tonight, in my town, his name is "turbo tony". He told me that I will need a new DV if I want to intercool my car. I told him no, tjat the IC kit uses the stock DV. He said that becuase it was made of plastic/rubber, I should upgrade. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2092585
I'm wondering about this as well.... what will an 'improved' DV do for me? What makes it 'improved?' Someone I know with a SAAB Viggen claims that if I replace the rubber tubing between my DV and air intake plumbing with steel, and replace the DV with a, and I quote 'good one,' I can effectively replicate the sound of a 'normal' BOV. Which is where I got on this whole 'good' or 'better' DV thing.
Through all of this though, I firmly believe heat is our #1 enemy, not our DV










_Modified by NHVeeDub at 10:57 AM 7-22-2005_


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## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2092585
I'm wondering about this as well.... what will an 'improved' DV do for me? What makes it 'improved?' Someone I know with a SAAB Viggen claims that if I replace the rubber tubing between my DV and air intake plumbing with steel, and replace the DV with a, and I quote 'good one,' I can effectively replicate the sound of a 'normal' BOV. Which is where I got on this whole 'good' or 'better' DV thing.
Through all of this though, I firmly believe heat is our #1 enemy, not our DV









_Modified by NHVeeDub at 10:57 AM 7-22-2005_

Well you can go with Forge or Baileys, etc... These DV's will redirect the air a lot faster than the plastic DV. That being said, these do need servicing, and have been known to fail (Forge especially), so when they do fail, you're out $125 to replace it, rather than the $20 for the plastic one. It's up to you though, if you have the money then definitely go for it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








With regards to the BOV sound that an upgraded DV might make, I always liked the sleeper sound of this kit. No one really knows what you have unless you tell them


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_No one really knows what you have unless you tell them









HaHa, when you pull up on me you know I have a turbo. 








And if they miss the basge they will see my gauges and figure something is going on.


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*

Who elses turbo is nameless....Its supposed to be a garret ...but it dose not say anything on it...the one turbo kit at the C2 booth had the name garret imprinted on it?? The one I have dosnt?


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Vdubsolo)*

Quick question on the IC kit can anyone check theirs and see how close the comp housing outlet comes to the firewall?


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_Who elses turbo is nameless....Its supposed to be a garret ...but it dose not say anything on it...the one turbo kit at the C2 booth had the name garret imprinted on it?? The one I have dosnt?

The guy that looked at mine the other night quickly new it was a garrett. No name though, I don't like hearing that. Probably no big deal though.


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*

I haven't looked but it came in a brand new Garrett box which I had to open to get at my Turbo..... so I know it's a Garrett whether or not it has something stamped on it


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*

I dont like like hearing it or seeing it either....Just wondering why sombody would take that extra step to shave the name off?


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Vdubsolo)*

HaHa, I doubt the name was "shaved" off.


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (abt cup)*

SO, I got the oil pressure gauge working in my car, and just in my driveway while tapping the throttle, she gets up to 80psi. Someone please tell me if I'm wrong - oil pressure going to the turbo should not exceed 50psi? If this is the case, I should be buying an oil restrictor correct? 
http://www.pagparts.com/perfpt...pters
http://www.stealthmodeperforma...shtml
I've just been doing more reading on this subject, and there's discussion about the size of the oil feed line. If it's a -4, you don't need a restrictor. If it's a -3, you do. I do not know what size oil feed line is supplied in the kit from Kinetic - does anyone know the answer to this? 
Discussion from the 1.8T forum:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1695140



_Modified by NHVeeDub at 12:58 AM 7-24-2005_


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (NHVeeDub)*









Give me a G! Maybe they just ran out of comp housings....


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 6:33 PM 7-23-2005_


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (NHVeeDub)*

Pretty positive ours is a -4. My oil pressure usually does not get over 50. However, when you first start the car, it will run high until it warms up. I think 80 is a bit high though. Could it be the gauge, because it is electric?


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_when you first start the car, it will run high until it warms up. I think 80 is a bit high though. 

On the highway, she sits around 60.... at idle after warmup, she's sittin around 30 ~


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_
On the highway, she sits around 60.... at idle after warmup, she's sittin around 30 ~

Damnit, anyone else care to chime in? I ran my car, to Waterfest. I was on the highway for about 170 miles and the oil temp never went over 240, but my oil pressure was never about 50. Is there a problem with his gauge, or something else???


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## Jettin2Class (Jun 26, 2002)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (NHVeeDub)*

I talked to Shawn at Kinetic about this very thing less than a week ago now. He said the only person he's run into that NEEDED an oil restrictor was a guy WAAAAYYY up north in Canada where it got really cold. He explained the factors involved are the size of the feed, the placement of the drain, and the size of the drain. Since on these setups the turbo is mounted high and a straight shot above the pan, with a drain line 2-3x as big as the feed line, the flow through the turbo is really not an issue. Why the guy in the extreme cold needed one is a mystery to me, but this at least satisfied me.


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Jettin2ClassVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettin2ClassVR6* »_I talked to Shawn at Kinetic about this very thing less than a week ago now. He said the only person he's run into that NEEDED an oil restrictor was a guy WAAAAYYY up north in Canada where it got really cold. He explained the factors involved are the size of the feed, the placement of the drain, and the size of the drain. Since on these setups the turbo is mounted high and a straight shot above the pan, with a drain line 2-3x as big as the feed line, the flow through the turbo is really not an issue. Why the guy in the extreme cold needed one is a mystery to me, but this at least satisfied me.

This is good info... but for like $15, I think I'll put one on, just for safety's sake http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif And I would like to know what size our oil feed line is, if anyone knows http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
Damnit, anyone else care to chime in? I ran my car, to Waterfest. I was on the highway for about 170 miles and the oil temp never went over 240, but my oil pressure was never about 50. Is there a problem with his gauge, or something else???

I'm runnin 20w-50 synthetic as well - if that changes anything http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Also, I JUST replaced the pressure sender as the one I got was FUBAR - 42draftdesigns shipped me out a new one lickety-split, all is good now


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## A2brb (May 29, 2003)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_Who elses turbo is nameless....Its supposed to be a garret ...but it dose not say anything on it...the one turbo kit at the C2 booth had the name garret imprinted on it?? The one I have dosnt?


Mine has Garret imprented on it....


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (A2brb)*

I hear that the turbo I have Is a RotoMaster...supposingly give better numbers...Im not really feeling it though...I gotta see whats up with this and hopfully get a garrett.....


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_I hear that the turbo I have Is a RotoMaster...supposingly give better numbers...Im not really feeling it though...I gotta see whats up with this and hopfully get a garrett.....

Why? unless you have dyno's to prove that its not putting out the power you need/want/as advertised, or it goes 'kaBlewY' on you, why worry about it? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (MunKyBoy)*


_Quote »_RotoMaster

Does it slice dice and julian fries?


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (.:VRT:.)*

LoL...It better!


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Vdubsolo)*

How do you guys go about launching the car when you run at the track? Tonight will be my first time at the track and I was just curious if you drop the clutch at like 2500 like everyone has been telling me, or if you feather it in like I think you would want to do? Any suggestions? 
As long as it doesnt rain I will be back later tonight with my numbers.


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## bob4me2see (Jun 24, 2001)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (Jettin2ClassVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettin2ClassVR6* »_I talked to Shawn at Kinetic about this very thing less than a week ago now. He said the only person he's run into that NEEDED an oil restrictor was a guy WAAAAYYY up north in Canada where it got really cold. He explained the factors involved are the size of the feed, the placement of the drain, and the size of the drain. Since on these setups the turbo is mounted high and a straight shot above the pan, with a drain line 2-3x as big as the feed line, the flow through the turbo is really not an issue. Why the guy in the extreme cold needed one is a mystery to me, but this at least satisfied me.

It makes sense that extreme cold could increase oil viscosity enough that as the pump tries to overcome the higher viscosity, the oil pressure exceeds the seal capacity at the bearings.
I asked my mechanic about this restrictor issue and he indicated that it's typically only used on a ball bearing turbo setup.


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*

The way I found to be the best is to rev it to about 3000 and aggresively slip the clutch till you get rolling and then drop it. You should get a squeel and then just tear off (depending on how well the track is prepped.) If you don't get it rolling fast enough before you drop it you will bog. It takes some time to get the feel of it because if you slip it too long, you start building boost and then you just start spinning. Have fun bro http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (MunKyBoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MunKyBoy* »_The way I found to be the best is to rev it to about 3000 and aggresively slip the clutch till you get rolling and then drop it. You should get a squeel and then just tear off (depending on how well the track is prepped.) If you don't get it rolling fast enough before you drop it you will bog. It takes some time to get the feel of it because if you slip it too long, you start building boost and then you just start spinning. Have fun bro http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks for the input, hwoever I get all the way to the track 1hr 20 mins away, and they closed it for the whole night because of the "rain"


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## BCeurotrash (Apr 12, 2004)

i went 12.655 at 107mph with 6lb spring but open downpipe it creeps to about 7.5


_Modified by BCeurotrash at 8:12 AM 7-30-2005_


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (BCeurotrash)*

WOW. Do you by chance have a time slip? That's pretty damn fast. What else do you have done?


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## BCeurotrash (Apr 12, 2004)

yep heres the breakdown of the slip...
60' 1.825
1/8 8.137 @ 87.88mph
1/4 12.655 @ 107.96mph
other mods peloquin lsd, act clutch, that would be about all stock block and head


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (BCeurotrash)*

A nice 'pro' for this kit...While driving home from the Bronx Zoo today, I pulled on a Z28 with dual exhaust. He just could not keep up with me!!!


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_A nice 'pro' for this kit...While driving home from the Bronx Zoo today, I pulled on a Z28 with dual exhaust. He just could not keep up with me!!!

We should be able to easily crush most any Mustang or Camaro that's not a Cobra or similar edition.... I had a 90 Mustang GT 5.0.... that was only 225bhp and it didn't handle for poo







_(and it squeeked and groaned)_ That's why she's gone. They're both one trick ponies.... I have a lot of fun with them on the highway though.... they think they're invinceable







But then again, I also have fun with Bimmers, just for the pretense alone http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif You know what, I just like to have fun


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## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

I was curious about running a 4bar FPR with this kit, here was C2's response:
_(1:02 PM 7-29-2005): In regards to the Kinetics stage 1 Turbo kit, how would the C2 software react to a 4-bar FPR? Is there any reason to go 4-bar? Reasons not to? Will I lose HP by using a 4-bar? Thanks all - LOVING this kit 
C2Motorsports (2:38 PM 8-2-2005): First of all, I do not see any benefit to running a 4 bar when the kit and software has been engineered around the 3 bar. If you wre to run the 4 bar, it would run extremely rich across the entire RPM range._
There ya go! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

Nice...I just not to stop spending money and order up the stg II and III kits.







Thik I will save them for next spring. Along with the clutch and diff.


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

So this is how I cool my turbo


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Nice hood scoop!...hey when you hit boost.....do all you is a loud azz shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh noise of all the presurized air coming outta the wastegate....My buddys sounds like that and he is also running a steady 10lbs...with no boost controller..


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

Hear**


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## Craige-O (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

Well I should have the car fully tuned and running in 2 weeks. Oh boy!!!


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (Ron Burgundy)*

Well anyway my buddys VRT is up and running and boy dose it haul....I cant waight to see the diffrence with the turbo being Intercooled.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Kinetich Motorsports...and C2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_Nice hood scoop!...hey when you hit boost.....do all you hear is a loud azz shhhhhhhhhhhhhhh noise of all the presurized air coming outta the wastegate....My buddys sounds like that and he is also running a steady 10lbs...with no boost controller..

Yea, running on 6 lbs I do hear that noise. It is louder now with the fire mat removed from under the hood as well as the scoop being installed. I don't mind it either, I actually like it because unlike a BOV it is not a constant caaaaachusssssssssssshhhhhhhhh and just a whoooooooosh only when I want it to be. Thanks for the compliment. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Well your welcome...its a necessary mod for a turbo car. I defenitly agree with you on the noises...Im also a fan of the whooooooooooosh noise....lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TheQuar (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

my kit did not come with any studs for the exhaust mani... the chip did nothing so i had to buy a new one from c2 and i have to mail back the faulty chip with shipping at my expense of course... the 90 degree fitting for the oil feed on the turbo was the wrong size so i had to drive to napa and buy my own... and the car idles like **** with the o2 sensors unplugged... my vr has only 30k miles on it so i know its not my motor







im still trying to knock out the idle problems but iv been unable to find any info on here as to what could be causing it? are both o2 sensors supposed to be unplugged? also the downpipe doesnt come with a gasket and i think its causing an exhaust leak... other than that it seems like a pretty nice kit... i just hope i can work out the little problems with the idle and such...


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (TheQuar)*



TheQuar said:


> the chip did nothing so i had to buy a new one from c2 and i have to mail back the faulty chip with shipping at my expense of course.QUOTE]
> 
> To clarify: you were charged for a replacement chip; upon the return of the faulty one, you will be issued a 100% refund for the chip.....that is standard policy
> 
> ...


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (TheQuar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheQuar* »_my kit did not come with any studs for the exhaust mani... the chip did nothing so i had to buy a new one from c2 and i have to mail back the faulty chip with shipping at my expense of course... the 90 degree fitting for the oil feed on the turbo was the wrong size so i had to drive to napa and buy my own... and the car idles like **** with the o2 sensors unplugged... my vr has only 30k miles on it so i know its not my motor







im still trying to knock out the idle problems but iv been unable to find any info on here as to what could be causing it? are both o2 sensors supposed to be unplugged? also the downpipe doesnt come with a gasket and i think its causing an exhaust leak... other than that it seems like a pretty nice kit... i just hope i can work out the little problems with the idle and such...

IM Jefnes3. He does the chips and he will take care of you. You might have to mail it to him, maybe $.60 but he will see what is wrong with it and I am sure he will send you a new one. Sucks that you didn't get the bolts for the exhaust mani. I hope you checked everything prior to starting the install. As for the O2 sensors, you can unplug both. However, I think it is the brown one that you want unplugged. And as for the gasket between the turbo and dp, yeah, it doesn't come with one, but you can pick up a sheet of gasket material at a local auto parts store for like $.10 an inch and just make your own if you really need it there. Good luck straightening everything out. When it is up and running be sure to let us know.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote »_ im still trying to knock out the idle problems but

Did you install the MAF housing backwards? Assuming that you've let the ECU acclimate, as well as the TB. What are your VAC readings on your boost gauge, is it bouncing all over the place? Check all your VAC lines....

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 10:42 AM 8-14-2005_


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 11:24 AM 8-14-2005_


----------



## TheQuar (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

havent hooked up the boost gauge yet so im not sure what its hitting yet... i believe the idle problems are coming from the coilpack so im going to replace that tomorrow. the MAF is installed properly. also chris i clearly said that i was charged for the chip until i returned the old one that did not work and then a refund would be issued i was talking about the shipping expense of sending it back which shouldnt be much of a problem because i cant see it being much to send back something that small.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (TheQuar)*

Hey guys, ran two 14.7's and a 14.8 at the track tonight. Anyone else has times?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Who's the guy on here from Mass that did his own intercooler? I have some questions for him.


----------



## Oh_My_VR6 (Sep 6, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Hey guys, ran two 14.7's and a 14.8 at the track tonight. Anyone else has times?

What were your 60ft's like? If i end up going with this kit...i would hope i could pull high 13's minimum. I was there with the atlas grey GTI VR6 running a terrible 15.6...my 60ft's were atrocious! I pulled [email protected] last august with just a cold air and exhaust...so i was dissapointed to say the least. 40 series tires don't help...but i'm not going to make excuses...my driving was horrible that night


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Oh_My_VR6)*

60's were 2.5 and 2.6. I didn't see you there.


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Had my state inspection today, OBD2, with the turbo kit in. I plugged both oxygen sensors back in, cleared the CEL, and drove 30 miles out of town to a shop I know doesn't care about things like e-code headlights or smoked lenses.
I passed the OBD2 test









Now, here's the strange thing: THE CAR RUNS A **LOT** BETTER WITH THE O2 SENSORS PLUGGED IN. Why is that? The idle is smooth, it doesn't stumble anywhere or burble or backfire like it was when they were unplugged. However, under WOT, there is a hesitation - presumably because she's running lean as I've read it will with the O2 sensors plugged in. But in every other circumstance, the car runs better - sharper and quicker throttle response and no bogging down.
WTF?
***OH, there needs to be a Kinetic sponsored forum for this kit, seriously.
***And I'm getting 18-20 MPG now, down from 22-25 prior to the kit.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_Now, here's the strange thing: THE CAR RUNS A **LOT** BETTER WITH THE O2 SENSORS PLUGGED IN. Why is that? The idle is smooth, it doesn't stumble anywhere or burble or backfire like it was when they were unplugged. However, under WOT, there is a hesitation - presumably because she's running lean as I've read it will with the O2 sensors plugged in. But in every other circumstance, the car runs better - sharper and quicker throttle response and no bogging down

Ya know, I was thinking the same thing. I told my buddy that prior to unplugging the O2 sensors that I thought that it was quicker also, but he said I was just getting used to the power. However, I will say that it idles rougher with the O2 sensors unplugged. It hops from 800 to as high as 1700 RPMs. Maybe I will plug them in and see what I think.
Oh yea, great to hear you passed emmissions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
It hops from 800 to as high as 1700 RPMs.

Are you sure you don't have any other prob in there? I haven't heard anyone companing about this before, it should idle like stock ...
I haven't got the kit yet, but an idle jumping all around isn't something nice ...


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6rocks* »_
Are you sure you don't have any other prob in there? I haven't heard anyone companing about this before, it should idle like stock ...
I haven't got the kit yet, but an idle jumping all around isn't something nice ...


Well, it isn't all the time. It happens from time to time.


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

My idle didn't jump around like that... it would stumble, sorta like an itty bitty misfire. Now with the O2 sensors plugged in, these itty bitty misfires are just about gone. More importantly, it's not stumbing AT ALL during normal driving, which it would with them unplugged.
What I'm saying is that C2 needs to fix this oxygen sensor B.S. and offer us updates. In the other Kinetic thread, the 50+ pager, there makes mention A YEAR AGO that they were almost done with that patch. Where is it? Ok sure, $2700 is not a lot of cash for the HP you get, and sure, there will be glitches, but I would expect that the software would properly operate the hardware. And well after a year on the market, this should have been fixed by now.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

the 02 sensor BS as you call it, is how they ensure that your car isn't in open loop mode while under boost. The fix that they'll be eliminating will be to just eliminate the CEL and ignore the 02 signal allowing you to leave it plugged in.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_the 02 sensor BS as you call it, is how they ensure that your car isn't in open loop mode while under boost. The fix that they'll be eliminating will be to just eliminate the CEL and ignore the 02 signal allowing you to leave it plugged in.


Well, Aaron has a legitimate concern, but after talking with Jeff Atwood directly, I now have a respect and some understanding for the chip not being out yet. It takes a lot to figure it out, I don't know the exact specs, so I can't go into it, but we just need to be patient as the chip is on it's way. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
Well, Aaron has a legitimate concern, but after talking with Jeff Atwood directly, I now have a respect and some understanding for the chip not being out yet. It takes a lot to figure it out, I don't know the exact specs, so I can't go into it, but we just need to be patient as the chip is on it's way. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

1) Thank you
2) SWEET!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## speedesign (Sep 8, 2003)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

I too am having idle problems....and no one thus far has been able to track it down. I'm not sure where to head next with it though... my car does not idle at all when cold, and when it warms up you have to blip the throttle each time you stop and then it will smooth out and idle around 800 rpms. Any ideas?


----------



## TheQuar (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: (speedesign)*

same thing here... my car feels slower now than it did before the turbo... its like im getting no power until i hit boost the turbo lag is insane or there is something wrong because its not feeling like a turbo vr







anyone in the philadelphia area think you can meetup with me and take a look at it? i dont know what else to do with it and i absolutely refuse to go to bill schimmel.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (TheQuar)*

Bring it down to Lansdale this weekend and I'll take a look at it.


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (TheQuar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheQuar* »_i absolutely refuse to go to bill schimmel.

This may be an ignorant question, but do you have the Kinetic kit?


----------



## Black00vr63 (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

I was wondering if there would be any pros/cons on installing a oil cooler kit to a turbo setup. I was thinking it would be a good idea in the sense it would send a possible cooler or consistent temp to the oil feed lines. Just curious dont bas if it sounds stupid not sure if its already been done though.


----------



## TheQuar (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: (Black00vr63)*

of course i have the kinetic kit... would i post here if i didnt?


----------



## A2brb (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (Black00vr63)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black00vr63* »_I was wondering if there would be any pros/cons on installing a oil cooler kit to a turbo setup. I was thinking it would be a good idea in the sense it would send a possible cooler or consistent temp to the oil feed lines. Just curious dont bas if it sounds stupid not sure if its already been done though.









I think it's a wise decision to run an Oil Cooler Kit.
I bought the Eurosport Oil Cooler kit right after I bought the Kinetic Kit. The Cooler is huge. Looks like a mini FMIC.
There is a lot of heat friction going on with the Turbo etc. The aftermarket oil cooler prolongs the life of the motor.
I have been told that a N/A VR should run an aftermarket oil cooler as well.


----------



## Black00vr63 (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (A2brb)*

Eurosport was the one I ws looking at maybe I will just get it and have it installed prior to F/I. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: (Black00vr63)*

My temps have never gone over 226* (and that was on a 100* wisconsin afternoon) and I have read some folks having temps as high as 280*








The stock motor had considerably lower oil temps, I think the hottest it ever got was around 212 on a hot summer day last year.
I will be holding off on an oil cooler until I consistantly see temps over 220 daily driven.


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (gamehenge~)*


_Quote »_My temps have never gone over 226*

Even on the highway at full boost in 5th?


----------



## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Yep, on the interstate it usually sits around 212 if Im just driving @ 70MPH.
Well, Ive hit full boost in 5th but not for a prolonged period of time, 10 secs maybe, and never hit over 226ish. This is all according to the MFA on the console.
*EDIT* - Keep in mind I am only running 6PSI - I would assume that oil temps and boost are directly related, in which case the assumption would be if I was running 10psi my temps would be considerably higher.


_Modified by gamehenge~ at 1:23 PM 8-24-2005_


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (gamehenge~)*


_Quote »_ Keep in mind I am only running 6PSI

Even so, in reading the rest of your post, you haven't pushed anywhere close to the limits. Those temps will get up there trust me.

_Quote »_ I would assume that oil temps and boost are directly related, in which case the assumption would be if I was running 10psi my temps would be considerably higher.

I'm not sure if PSI has much to do with oil temp. EGT for sure but oil temp..... eh not so sure about that one. EGT is what you really want to be watching. My oil temp didn't go up all that much with the kit to tell you the truth. If you've never seen your oil temps over 220 before then you haven't pushed your car very hard.

_Modified by .:VRT:. at 3:13 PM 8-24-2005_


_Modified by .:VRT:. at 3:14 PM 8-24-2005_


----------



## TheQuar (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

come to think of it i dont think iv ever seen my oil over 226 either..


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (TheQuar)*

Saw 236 doing 120, WOT, and 9psi of boost this weekend. With EGT's in the 1400 Range







. Drive it you'll see it....


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Installed my 8.75 lb spring tonight. For $30, everyone should do it. I honestly gained about 30 to 40 whp. IT is awesome!


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

I think you were the last one to put that spring in


----------



## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote »_Saw 236 doing 120, WOT, and 9psi of boost this weekend. With EGT's in the 1400 Range . Drive it you'll see it.... 

I drive my car pretty hard sometimes - but the Golf isnt paid off yet and a new engine would put me in a very difficult position.
Few weeks ago I went to the track, after 4 pulls my car was hovering about 225ish and that was on a 90* day.
I have a feeling that VR oil temps can vary from person to person. From other posts Ive read it seems like some engines just run hotter than others. Maybe due to other factors as well? (Elevation, outside temps, who knows)
-Ty


----------



## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (gamehenge~)*

I agree with that....Most of my friends with vr's...their oil temps tend to vary....One of my friends who drives his car like a maniac all the time....some how has the lowest oil temps...all the time...I dont think he has ever broke 220.....I think the highest temp he has his is like 216...where as Me just driving on a highway ill hit 226-230 somthing. I never broke 240 yet....Im switching up my oil today so Ill keep an eye out for my temps, and keep ya posted...


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_I think you were the last one to put that spring in









Oh wow. I did not realize so many had it. Ilove it!


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

The best $30 dollar mod you'll evaaaaar buy


----------



## TheQuar (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

my engine only has 30k miles on it so that could be the reason why im not passing 200


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (TheQuar)*

My exhaust...
2.5" TT catback on my Kinetic powered VRT.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_
Now, here's the strange thing: THE CAR RUNS A **LOT** BETTER WITH THE O2 SENSORS PLUGGED IN. Why is that? The idle is smooth, it doesn't stumble anywhere or burble or backfire like it was when they were unplugged. However, under WOT, there is a hesitation - presumably because she's running lean as I've read it will with the O2 sensors plugged in. But in every other circumstance, the car runs better - sharper and quicker throttle response and no bogging down.


Jeff has explained this before in many previoius posts.
You can leave the O2 sensors plugged in as long as you don't boost under partial throttle. The O2 sensor will try to pull the mixture back to stoich if you are anything other than WOT, and if you are boosting, that is not a safe A/F. Of course the car will run better if you can leave it plugged in as it can run in a closed loop mode and will not have to guess the inj. duty cycle by looking purely at the rpms, air temps, MAF, and TPS alone. The reason that you can go WOT though is because the ECU sees WOT and will not look at the O2 sensor, it will go purely off a map depending on the air temps, RPM, and MAF. This map is what Jeff puts in, so the A/F will be perfect, as long as you are flooring it, or, if you disconnect the sensor.
Ryan


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Jeff has explained this before in many previoius posts.
Ryan

Good explanation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks for clearing it up for me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_
Good explanation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks for clearing it up for me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









No prob.
Ryan


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Jeff has explained this before in many previoius posts.
You can leave the O2 sensors plugged in as long as you don't boost under partial throttle. The O2 sensor will try to pull the mixture back to stoich if you are anything other than WOT, and if you are boosting, that is not a safe A/F. Of course the car will run better if you can leave it plugged in as it can run in a closed loop mode and will not have to guess the inj. duty cycle by looking purely at the rpms, air temps, MAF, and TPS alone. The reason that you can go WOT though is because the ECU sees WOT and will not look at the O2 sensor, it will go purely off a map depending on the air temps, RPM, and MAF. This map is what Jeff puts in, so the A/F will be perfect, as long as you are flooring it, or, if you disconnect the sensor.
Ryan

Would an smt unit for example solve this small problem?
If you are able to modify the narrowband signal while in Part Throttle+Boost, this should lower the afr threshold from 14.7 to ~12, and you can leave the signal intact while Part Throttle+No Boost.
This way you should be able to keep your O2 sensor plugged in, have excellent drivability and enjoy Jeff's tuning under WOT http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Edit: should be thumbsup when using Jeff's tuning







sorry Jeff, it was a wrong click on the mouse

_Modified by VR6rocks at 9:10 AM 8-31-2005_


_Modified by VR6rocks at 9:12 AM 8-31-2005_


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6rocks* »_
Would an smt unit for example solve this small problem?
If you are able to modify the narrowband signal while in Part Throttle+Boost, this should lower the afr threshold from 14.7 to ~12, and you can leave the signal intact while Part Throttle+No Boost.
This way you should be able to keep your O2 sensor plugged in, have excellent drivability and enjoy Jeff's tuning under WOT 

Yeah, what this guy said







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Will this work?


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*

In theroy 'yes'
I did it before actually. Made my own box.
I chose not ot do it, because I figured its better to do it in software.
then you don't need a box.

-Jeff


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Hey Jeff, any updates on the fix for this problem? Just wondering.


----------



## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

the downside that really pisses me of is the big ******** in the compressor house. but a little rubber and a clamp temp fixed it until i can get it off and tapped.


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

sorry Jeff, meant a thumbsup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for your tuning in my earlier post


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_Installed my 8.75 lb spring tonight. For $30, everyone should do it. I honestly gained about 30 to 40 whp. IT is awesome!

You running that with an FMIC or still on the Oil Cooled??


----------



## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*

just let me check something hole.


----------



## NHVeeDub (May 3, 2004)

*Re: (DrunkenMunkey)*

I never asked: Do you NEED to run 93 octane with this kit? Or can you schlep along on 87?


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (NHVeeDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NHVeeDub* »_I never asked: Do you NEED to run 93 octane with this kit? Or can you schlep along on 87?

Good question. 93 is about $3.49 around here. But for the extra $.20 I dont care. I'd like to know though.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Run good gas with boost.
Ryan


----------



## TheQuar (Jun 29, 2004)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

around here there is a company that has V-Power gas which is basically their premium gas and it seems to work much better than any other gas iv tried including Sunoco's 94 octane. btw where can i get a .65 bar spring from my wastegate?


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_In theroy 'yes'
I did it before actually. Made my own box.
I chose not ot do it, because I figured its better to do it in software.
then you don't need a box.

-Jeff



Jeff, is this actually possible? since the chip has no input from a MAP sensor, how will it know that you are running under boost ?


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*

Do a search under his name Jefnes3 in the archives (like 3 years ago.) He described at length how he got to where he is right now.
Very methodical approach. 
Ah oh grab a cup of coffee coz there is plenty of good reading material
d


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (fastslc)*

I am not asking about how to program chips or fuel maps , we were discussing the problem when you are in closed loop and under boost







... the chip will still rely on the O2 sensor and set your afr to 14.7 ... 
My question is how to identify this specific case, with the limited sensor inputs that the chip has, mainly a MAP sensor which is missing ...


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*








= well if you read his old post, you would understand


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6rocks* »_I am not asking about how to program chips or fuel maps , we were discussing the problem when you are in closed loop and under boost







... the chip will still rely on the O2 sensor and set your afr to 14.7 ... 
My question is how to identify this specific case, with the limited sensor inputs that the chip has, mainly a MAP sensor which is missing ...

Well, if the ECU goes into open-loop when it is WOT (TPS is ~5V) then...
Ryan


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (fastslc)*

I will look into this info you are pointing me to ...
Any search criteria that might help me find it ?


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

I am just saying, if the TPS says WOT and it goes open-loop...then if it is anything other than that, it must be close loop...


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

Yes other than that it is closed loop, and in closed loop the ecu tries to set your afr to 14.7


----------



## fastslc (Sep 14, 1999)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=140359
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=157169


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (fastslc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastslc* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=140359
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=157169

Nice links! The prequels to the new generation of FI'd VR6's!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (fastslc)*

Thanks


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*

Hey guys, check out my newly designed website. What do you all think? http://www.2point8t.com


----------



## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

Anyone pick up the stg II kit yet? I'm curious to see what it puts down with a 2.5" exhaust and CAT ona 9 PSI spring.


----------



## DrunkenMunkey (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

read thru this. some good arguments going down. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2
i started to think about atp virtual exhaust now before the cat. cheaper then total exhaust.


----------



## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*


_Quote »_
I never asked: Do you NEED to run 93 octane with this kit? Or can you schlep along on 87?


YES. I ran 91 octane and was getting knock retard up to 13 degrees at 8psi. This equates to a lot of power lost... I could actually 'feel' the knock sensors kicking back the timing almost a reverse vtec feeling.








Put some race gas/91 octane mix (effectively running 93-94ish octane) and all my problems went away...


----------



## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (gamehenge~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gamehenge~* »_
YES. I ran 91 octane and was getting knock retard up to 13 degrees at 8psi. This equates to a lot of power lost... I could actually 'feel' the knock sensors kicking back the timing almost a reverse vtec feeling. 








Put some race gas/91 octane mix (effectively running 93-94ish octane) and all my problems went away...


I dont really like the sound of that. But oh well. Gotta pay to play I guess


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## 619 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

this kit is all the buzz right now, its cheap, reliable, but if you in my boat, that being in the market for FI, but juggling around the idea if this kit verses a used S/C waht would be your advise? and yea i see guys asking the same question left and right, and the thing no one seems to bring up is that a S/C can be had for very cheap right now, especially since thr release of this kit, prior S/C owners are like screw this, im sellin it and gettin some "real boost". but im driving around a stock 12v. it so simple i seei S/C going for like $2000 with 8 and 12psi pullies, install it in a few hours, little call to C2 will get me some primo software and i should be on the butt of 250whp, for like$2500 which souds like a blast. why is every bustin a nut over this kit, which seems to net the same power? $2650 last i checked, then i need exaust nighborhood of $500 or so, and someone to install it which'll be another $800-$1000. am i just being nieve or is somethig im gettin completely wrong







im poor and i want boost. no bashin intended here, just love








ps: i drive a mk3glx, before this was a 24v gti which more than enough power for me, maybe thats the reason for confusion. im not addicted to power


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (619)*

Where are there supercharger kits going for 2000?


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## 619 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

classifieds, no everyone is that low, but several are. that combined with easy/cheap installation, make it a more cost effective way to go, unless you want to keep turning the boost up and up.


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vdubsolo* »_Where are there supercharger kits going for 2000?









The used ones are the "cheaper" ones. You cannot really compare a used s/c to this *new* turbo kit. Comparing apples to oranges my friend, and it doesn't work out that way. 
Is there a reason that no one is selling their turbo kits (Kinetic or not) in the classifieds? And these s/c's that are going for so low, there must be a problem if someone is willing to take close to a $2000 hit on their initial investment.


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## 619 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

crazykidbig58, just curious, how much have spent so far? what is your est. whp? what do you think an installer would charge?

_Quote, originally posted by *crazykidbig58* »_ there must be a problem if someone is willing to take close to a $2000 hit on their initial investment.

your right, its a little risky buying anything used. but a lot of these vortech v1 based kits going for sale, are actually kits that are beeing pass around several time as some of them are close to 5 years old now. buy one third hand might explain why they're so cheap.


_Modified by 619 at 12:18 PM 10-23-2005_


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (619)*


_Quote, originally posted by *619* »_crazykidbig58, just curious, how much have spent so far? what is your est. whp? what do you think an installer would charge?


On the setup alone, no more than $3000. That includes the gauges and some minor things. 245 whp 2.5" catback exhaust, when I put my 3" on, it should go about 20 to 30 hp, for about $400.

_Quote, originally posted by *619* »_
your right, its a little risky buying anything used. 

This is not what I was saying. I was simply saying why would somone initially pay (let's say) $3800 for a supercharger kit, then turn around and sell it for $2000. 

_Quote, originally posted by *619* »_but a lot of these vortech v1 based kits going for sale, are actually kits that are beeing pass around several time as some of them are close to 5 years old now. buy one third hand might explain why they're so cheap.

If this is the case, anyone who pays $2000+ for something that is 5 years old is really not thinking it through too well. I am not saying they don't work properly or anything, but come on, these things will take a beating, so why not just pay the extra $1800 for a new one? - Oh is it because a lot of the people here can't swing that kind of cash? If that is the case, then you can see why so many people go turbo (Kinetic) compared to a blower. 
Just my $.02, not trying to fight or anything. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

I was originally looking to go S/C but didnt have the $3,800 for the kit. Which is why I started looking at a turbo kit. Noticed the Kinetic kit, and the price, and decided to go for it.
I was looking for reliability, but a lot of people were saying low boost kits are just as reliable. And Ive always been privy to turbo's anyway.
4 months gone by now, no problems at all.


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (gamehenge~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gamehenge~* »_4 months gone by now, no problems at all.

I've got 8500 miles and about 5 months on mine and couldn't be happier.
Oh, what's belt slip???


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (crazykidbig58)*

I also was considering going S\C..but after reading about the Kinetic kit & researching both s\c & turbo's...for about 2-3 months with about an easy 5-10 hrs a week, I decicded to go with the turbokit. What made me go with the turbo was the option to upgrade it In anyway way to gain the power I want. Somthing you can only go so far with S\C'd...Iv had my kit on for about 1000miles..No issues...Everybody who Iv given a ride to has gotten outta of the car with as big of a smile as me...& these people drive other turbo'd Imports. VW's..and domestic cars.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 16vr6 (Sep 30, 2005)

I picked up a vr swap for my 92 golf maybe a month ago and it all started with the thought "while the motor is out i might as well do..." i went from doing bearings, water pump, oil pump, all timing components etc. etc. to considering s/c to buying kinetic stg 1. as well as getting spec stg2 clutch lighter flywheel, peloquin diff, stg3 axles, and a ported and polished head with new cat 256 cams and a c2 9.0 hg. this project got real expensive real fast. I am having Josh and Chris over at NLS do all the work and i cannot wait to see what this car feels like when it is all said and done!!!


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (16vr6)*

dude all though u spent a crap load of money..It will be so worth it..especialy since its in a mk2...god luck with that..you will not regret it! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (16vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vr6* »_I picked up a vr swap for my 92 golf maybe a month ago and it all started with the thought "while the motor is out i might as well do..." i went from doing bearings, water pump, oil pump, all timing components etc. etc. to considering s/c to buying kinetic stg 1. as well as getting spec stg2 clutch lighter flywheel, peloquin diff, stg3 axles, and a ported and polished head with new cat 256 cams and a c2 9.0 hg. this project got real expensive real fast. I am having Josh and Chris over at NLS do all the work and i cannot wait to see what this car feels like when it is all said and done!!!

dude your right by me (one town over actually). I don't know who NLS is but you will love your car when its all said and done.


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## 16vr6 (Sep 30, 2005)

Thanx, i have alot to learn but one thing i do know is that if you do it right the first time it saves $ and headaches in the future. NLS is in coopersburg area. good guys to work with I"m sure I will praising them later on when i have my car back! i'm getting rid of my mk4 for this project...and i think it will be sooo worth the trade off ( especially when the car is sold..more $ to throw at it)!


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## 619 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (tim frame)*

ok, here is a topic for discussion...
if i am going to be totally thick headed and say i want to retain my stock exhaust, and only use 91 octane gas, would i have better success going with a S/C over this kit? and for the record, i know of a handful of poeple doing just that with their sleeper s/c'r set ups here in cali, and it works wonderfully. but i really want THIS kit!















thoughts?


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## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (619)*

I would say yes. 91 octane is pushing it with this kit (unless you go with the low-octane version which Jeff can provide). It was tuned with 93 octane, anything lower and your knocksensors will kick back timing. Ive done various data logs with both 91 and 92 octane which have proven this to be true.
Also, stock exhaust is going to limit your power a lot. Consider this: I ran a 14.7-15.0 with this kit (bad 60' - 2.5 secs) at 6psi, stock exhaust and 92 octane gas.
You will get better numbers from a SC setup given your conditions IMO.


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## crazykidbig58 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (619)*


_Quote, originally posted by *619* »_ok, here is a topic for discussion...
if i am going to be totally thick headed and say i want to retain my stock exhaust, and only use 91 octane gas, would i have better success going with a S/C over this kit? and for the record, i know of a handful of poeple doing just that with their sleeper s/c'r set ups here in cali, and it works wonderfully. but i really want THIS kit!















thoughts?

Don't run 91 octane with either kit. Pay the extra dime and run 93. 
In regards to your exhaust, I might be wrong, but I don't think it matters as much with a S/C as it does with a turbo. It just makes sense. Think about it. A turbo spools by the exhaust gases. When the turbo is spooling so is the compressor. Hence, the more air that can flow (3" exhaust) the quicker the turbo/compressor can spool. 
On the other hand, you have a supercharger which is powered by a belt. So, the more rpm's you have, the more air it will force into the intake. It has nothing to do with the exhaust gases.
So while you have two similar FI concepts, they are both powered completely differently, which is why all the "turbo guys" like to have as big an exhaust as possible. Hope this helps. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by crazykidbig58 at 2:04 PM 10-28-2005_


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## 619 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: New Thread on the Pros/Cons of the Kinetic Motorsport VR6 turbo kit. (crazykidbig58)*

good info guys, thanks.
91 is the highest available at the pump in cali.
and i want a sleeper, so im'a see how far i can go on stock exhaust.
happy boosting


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## 16vr6 (Sep 30, 2005)

anybody know how much boost you can run safely with the following set up- 36# injectors and programming(kinetic stgI) fmic, 9.0 HG, p&p head, barrel intake mani, and a mostly rebuilt motor, new clutch/flywheel, stgIII axles and peloquin diff. oh and new cat 256's. any input would be appreciated,thanx


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (16vr6)*

I think Mole made his 400+ on 18psi and 9:1 compression.


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## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_I think Mole made his 400+ on 18psi and 9:1 compression.

yea but on 42# injection. 36# is limited up to like 3xx whp


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## gamehenge~ (May 7, 2004)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote »_anybody know how much boost you can run safely with the following set up- 36# injectors and programming(kinetic stgI) fmic, 9.0 HG, p&p head, barrel intake mani, and a mostly rebuilt motor, new clutch/flywheel, stgIII axles and peloquin diff. oh and new cat 256's. any input would be appreciated,thanx


The Stage I kit has 30# injectors FYI... Unless you upgraded the 30# to the 36#.
From what I remember the #30 injectors are good to 8-9psi. After that you gotta go with the #42 kit. A bigger fuel pump wouldnt be a bad idea either.


_Modified by gamehenge~ at 1:25 PM 11-2-2005_


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## 16vr6 (Sep 30, 2005)

on kinetics site the stgI says 36# injectors and the stgII says 30# injectors I guess it is just a mistake on kinetics site....damn it! I thought I was getting 36# inj. and programing


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (16vr6)*

So what is it #30 or #36 with the base kit?
I thought it was #30 if memory serves


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (tim frame)*

Stage 1 Fueling
OB1-#36 Injectors
OB2-#30 Injectores
Stage 2 fueling
OBD1 & OBD2- #42 Injectores


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*


_Quote »_From what I remember the #30 injectors are good to 8-9psi.

I want 10psi on the Stage I dammit!


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

I ran 10psi..no issues


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

Passed tense? What exactly was your setup? How did your EGT's and A/F look? 10:1 comp?


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

Small turbines on big engines = high EGT's and knocking.If you guys can,get atleast a .82 T3 turbine or atleast a .58 To4.I would never personally use a T3 anything on a VR motor.


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

Well... there's several reasons that EGT's *could* be high on this kit. But honestly the EGT's aren't in the danger zone even unintercooled at 7-9psi.


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## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Passed tense? What exactly was your setup? How did your EGT's and A/F look? 10:1 comp?

I dont know about my EGT's But my A\F was in the 13's..when i dyno'd the car @ 10lbs..After about a week I turnd the boost down to 8.5-9lbs..But I had no problems running 10lbs..


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## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (Vdubsolo)*

Wait, wait, wait. Isn't that still on the rich side? Even at 10psi?


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## tim frame (Aug 1, 2002)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*

bringing it back.
there is just too much good info in this thread to let it die


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## White R32 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (gamehenge~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gamehenge~* »_
YES. I ran 91 octane and was getting knock retard up to 13 degrees at 8psi. This equates to a lot of power lost... I could actually 'feel' the knock sensors kicking back the timing almost a reverse vtec feeling.








Put some race gas/91 octane mix (effectively running 93-94ish octane) and all my problems went away...


That sounds just like my eip stage I kit for the .:R32.
I was putting in 101 vp gas from the local pumping station,
but after spending enough $$ I switched to toluene for oct boost.


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## 2k1 vr6 (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: (White R32)*

not sure if you guys already know but this kit for mk4 vr6 cars should be out soon. the funny thing is when i got my edition of eurotuner, there was a kinetic ad that had mk4 vr6 turbo stage 1 just released. so i called the next day and asked, and it's been delayed a little. but from what they told me, they already have 3 test cars with them on. one fully stock with the kit on ran 233whp at the wheels. the other car with a 3" exhaust ran 240whp at the wheels. he never told me about the third.


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## primerdimer (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

Just wondering if there is a side mount intercooler setup available for this... im pretty sure im gonna order it, but i want my car to be somewhat sleeper. Cant really achieve that with a big ol shiny intercooler. Can i use one off a 1.8T?


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## primerdimer (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (2k1 vr6)*

Just wondering if there is a side mount intercooler setup available for this... im pretty sure im gonna order it, but i want my car to be somewhat sleeper. Cant really achieve that with a big ol shiny intercooler. Can i use one off a 1.8T?


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## -:VW:- (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: (primerdimer)*

Nope.


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## corradoswapT (Jan 4, 2005)

*Re: (primerdimer)*

I saw a picture of a hpa mkIII gti that had two sidemount intercoolers. it looks like I could use two g60 ic or something that size to make my own set up.










_Modified by corradoswapT at 1:30 PM 5-20-2006_


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## VR SEX (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (corradoswapT)*

those look to be audi TT intercoolers...


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## -:VW:- (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: (corradoswapT)*

Why bother. You like pressure drop?


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## primerdimer (Sep 17, 2005)

*Re: (-:VW*

so your saying the only intercooler i can run for this set up is a big ol front mount? im only lookin to boost 10lbs max...


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## -:VW:- (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: (primerdimer)*

You can run whatever you want. It'll be custom though. You could possibly buy EIP's side mount kit but you'll have to modify it for the Kinetic manifold.


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