# Navigation System - Split Screen Function



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Discovered something new on the Nav*

I don't usually use the nav since I don't travel much , but last night I activated a destination just to sit back and observe the system. Well, later I pressed the "map" hardkey to enlarge the map. Then for some reason I pressed the "map" button for the second time and it activated something on the screen that I didn't know would happen. Pressing the "map" button twice (after initiating a destination) will split the screen into a map on the right half of the screen and the left half of the screen will show you what you normally see on the display where the speedometer is. That way if you want to see CD or radio information on the heads-up display , you can see the up-to-date turning instructions on the main screen of the infotainment screen. 
Even though the nav isn't DVD, I feel it does have quite a good bit of accuracy and serves the function well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
David


_Modified by dcowan699 at 4:41 PM 2-25-2005_


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (dcowan699)*

excellent, thanks for posting this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . I have not yet tried to use the nav, but will keep my eye out for this nice function!
Ed.


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## mkla2000 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (viscount)*

actually, (I can't remember the exact buttons right now) there is a setting in the Nav system that you can choose to display this split screen function at all times a destination is chosen) - using this setting, the "arrows" are also displayed on the Nav Set display.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (dcowan699)*

David raises a very good point, and has highlighted a feature of the navigation system that is not well understood. Personally, I think that lack of understanding of this feature is behind a lot of the complaints that arise about the navigation system.
The 'default' presentation of the map on the big display between the two front seats (the Front Information Display Control Head, or *J523* module, to use the proper name for it) is a full screen map. A full screen map is quite useful for overall situational awareness, but not very good at all for the purpose of telling you what you need to do next if you are actually navigating a route.
As David mentioned, you can toggle the display on the J523 between a full screen map and a split-screen map just by repeatedly pressing the *MAP *button. The split-screen view gives you much better specific guidance information - it shows the intersection layout where you will make your next turn (assuming you are within a few miles of your next turn) and it also shows the distance between the present position of the car and the next leg change maneuver.
The way the system was really intended to be used, though, is with the driver looking at the route guidance screen on the Display Unit in the Instrument Cluster - the *Y24* screen. This screen always displays guidance information only. Further, it always displays the name of the street you are presently driving on at the bottom of the screen, and the name of the street you will make your next turn at up at the top of the screen. If you understand this, then most of the complaints about 'lack of street names' kind of don't matter anymore.
The route guidance screen on the display between the speedometer and tachometer does not come up automatically when a route is activated. Personally, I think this is an oversight in the programming of the system - it should appear if a route is activated - but it is possible, I suppose, that the lawyers at VW of A disabled automatic activation of this screen because they thought it would be a driver distraction. In any case, you can bring up this screen by pressing the buttons in the lower right corner of the steering wheel, directly above or below the knurled roller wheel.
There are some pictures of these three screens below.
Michael
*Default screen that appears when the MAP button is pressed*
_This screen provides general situational awareness only - no guidance._








*Alternate display of map screen*
_Just press the MAP button a second time to see this screen. Press it a third time to toggle back to the default map (full screen map, as shown in the picture above)._
The road name at the top left corner is the road that you will be making your next turn onto. This allows a passenger to observe the road name, then look at street signs to help identify the correct road to turn at.








*Navigation GUIDANCE screen that appears in the instrument cluster*
_Note that this screen will always display the name of the road you are presently driving on at the BOTTOM of the screen. This information is not presented on either of the two MAP screens on the big display between the front seats._
The road name at the TOP of this screen is the road that you will be making your next turn onto. This is consistent with the design of the display on the big screen, between the two front seats. Note also that the split-screen view on the middle display gives more detail at complex intersections such as this one. The intent of the designers was to present only the most important information on the instrument panel screen (below), and provide additional detail, if needed for complex manouvers, on the split screen.










_Modified by PanEuropean at 7:15 PM 1-24-2008_


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## ksand (May 17, 2004)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*

What a great feature, I wish it was available on the Touareg's nav system! When I push the Map button it toggles the map screen and the guidance screen, but I do not have the split-screen option.
Michael, I assume this is inherant in the Phaeton's nav system, and not just a matter of recoding?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (ksand)*

That is correct, it is basic to the design.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I use this feature often, in fact it is my normal navigation mode, as I use the MFI to find radio stations or favorite tracks on CD's while driving.
The Touareg does show the "arrows" in the MFI while in the map screen, at least on the CD-Rom based systems. I've yet to get my hands on a DVD Nav equiped unit.


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## ksand (May 17, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

You're right, of course, and from what I've heard the Touaregs DVD Nav works much the same way. I was wishing for the split screen mode because, as you, I use the MFI for other functions (usually the computer) and it would have been convenient to have the "arrows" alongside the map.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (ksand)*

Explain this! Yesterday was my first real road trip in my Phaeton and it consisted of leaving Alabama (Southeast disc) and going into Tennessee (Midwest and Ohio Valley disc). In Tennessee I should have needed a new disc for the nav to accept new destinations and so forth. However, I never lost information all the way up to my destination. I did not program a destination on the way up, but it gave me a fairly detailed map as I progressed into Tennessee. 
In my Benz, you would get nothing at all once you crossed the state line and I mean not one mile beyond that. The VW system seems to allow for some serious overlap of regions. While I was showing some interested friends and family my car, I did put the Tenn. disc in for a short period of time while I was visiting there but I immediately put the Southeast disc back in BEFORE leaving Tennessee. Once I started to head back home, I programmed it to get me back to Birmingham , AL (while still way north of my region) and it did so without any interruptions. Maybe I don't understand the full extent of the nav system. 
David


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I've even discovered the Canadian disk covers well into NY State and Michigan. Each disk has the lower 48's highways system on it, what you lose is surface street detail, POI, etc.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Come to think of it, I didn't zoom in much while in Tennessee. Regardless, it's better than seeing nothing at all and having to switch discs just to go a few miles into a different region.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Explain this! _(About roads showing up on out of region CD's)_ David

VW uses the highest grade of cartography that can be purchased from Navteq, who are their cartographic suppliers. What Navteq does - which is really clever - is that they include a 'base map' of the entire continent on every CD. The base map contains highways, major thoroughfares, and significant geographical and cultural features. The 'street level detail' for each region, including minor streets, house numbers, and the invisible road attributes required to create routes, is only included for each region, on the region-specific disc.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael but let me ask this question. If I wanted to go to 5667 Anywhere, California, would I put in the disc that pertains to California , program in the address and leave that disc for the California region in the machine even though I begin my trip in Alabama?? Let's assume I don't want POI or any detail along the way and all I need is step by step instructions on how to get there.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

I can only answer theoretically, because I have never used any CD other than the Canada one in my car.
My guess is that you would need to put the CD containing the destination in the CD player, to allow you to look up the city, street, and street number and set these as the destination. Once you have selected 'activate route guidance' or whatever that button in the lower right says, I suspect that the nav system would then prompt you to put in the CD for the region the vehicle is presently located in, to allow the nav system to begin providing you with guidance from the area of origin to the area of destination.
The exception to this would be if you enter a 'coarse' destination into the nav system, which would probably be a more sensible way of doing things. For example, if you start in New York and want to go to 123 Main Street in Los Angeles, my guess is that it would be sufficient to leave the New York CD in the player, and just enter the state (CA) and the city (Los Angeles) as the destination, with no street specified. I expect that the city (Los Angeles) is probably on the base map that is stored on every CD. Once you drive into the CD region that contains Los Angeles, you can refine your destination further, to include the street and street number.
If your destination was Rabbithash, KS, population 38, and Rabbithash was not stored on the base map, you might have to settle for just entering KS in as a destination - or entering the name of a major city, such as Wichita, that is proximate to your destination city.
Again - this is just a hypothesis, based on how aircraft nav systems and Garmin aftermarket automotive systems work.


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## RogerG (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Yes, you are right, Michael. I have the Navteq-CD for Germany in my Navigation-System and I can drive throug all Europe because all the Highways are on it and the (bigger) cities. There are also the Main Streets of these cities on it but not in detail all the streets of it. When I will find more details I must buy a CD from the special country (or region).


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*

the first automobile navigation system i have ever used is in my phaeton. i have no other systems for comparison.
having said that, i am still aggravated by all the negative phaeton nav system comments on this forum (not htis thread).
THE PHAETON NAV SYSTEM WORKS EXTREMELY WELL!
i can drive from indiana to florida, to a location i've never been before, 1118 miles, follow the nav directions, and get there without a problem, without changing the disk from my local disk to florida!
the system is fast, reliable, and fun to play with. AND I DON'T WANT OR NEED STREET NAMES SLOWING DOWN MY SYSTEM AND CLUTTERING UP MY DISPLAY!
IN MY ARROGANT OPINION, VW GOT THE NAV SYSTEM RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-------------------------------------
2004 v8 phaeton with great nav
and now 2004 v10 tdi toureg


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (iluvmcr)*

Well...
As has been discussed at length before, it works very well for *navigation guidance* - meaning, when you have a destination active and are proceeding towards it. In this respect, it gets a 10 out of 10.
It is not well suited to providing *situational awareness*, meaning, you don't have a destination active, but you are trying to become spatially oriented to the streets and roads around you. In this respect, it scores very poorly because of the lack of street name display.
Michael


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Well...
As has been discussed at length before, it works very well for *navigation guidance* - meaning, when you have a destination active and are proceeding towards it. In this respect, it gets a 10 out of 10.
It is not well suited to providing *situational awareness*, meaning, you don't have a destination active, but you are trying to become spatially oriented to the streets and roads around you. In this respect, it scores very poorly because of the lack of street name display.
Michael

Exactly.
It is the Situational Awareness that I need most. I would venture to say most others would like to have that feature as well. Especially when you know you're in the area and just need an overview to catch your bearings.
Regarding the Nav. Guidance, It has always been 100% accurate for me. I just do not have the time to always punch in the directions.
One way I've learn to cut input time is to input the cities that I visit most. There are about 15 of them. I input the cities and store them without an address. Then when I have an address for that city all I do is look up the city which, is already stored and all I have to do is punch in the street name and number and store. 
The city alone stays stored in the system and I've created a new address which is now stored. Kinda of like doing a Save As on your computer software.
It just helps me be more efficient in Real Estate when showing property.


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Well...
As has been discussed at length before, it works very well for *navigation guidance* - meaning, when you have a destination active and are proceeding towards it. In this respect, it gets a 10 out of 10.
It is not well suited to providing *situational awareness*, meaning, you don't have a destination active, but you are trying to become spatially oriented to the streets and roads around you. In this respect, it scores very poorly because of the lack of street name display.
Michael

Yes, I know this has been discussed before at great length. The general tone of those lengthly discussions is that Phaeton's nav system is a bad product. 
I never considered using my nav system for spatial orientation. I have always used it for getting from known point A to unknown point B. After all, it is called a *navigation system*, not a city orientation guide.
If there are better systems that give us the best of both with the same speed or better speed and the screen is not a cluttered mess, then I look forward to an upgrade or another Phaeton in the future with a better system.
For now I am happy with what I find is a reliable and very useful tool.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (iluvmcr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iluvmcr* »_ The general tone of those lengthy discussions is that Phaeton's nav system is a bad product.

Well - I wouldn't say it is a bad product, that would be an ill-informed and a simplistic judgment. If people take the time to study how it works, and they then use it in the manner in which it is intended - meaning, with the guidance display in the instrument cluster active, or the split-screen function on the big central display active, then it is a very good product.
I think, though, that VW may not have considered how the end users want to use the navigation system. I get the impression, from reading posts here in the forum, that most people want to use it as an aid to situational awareness more often than they want to use it to guide them to a specific destination.
Since 2001, I have spent most summers riding my motorcycle around Europe, testing aftermarket automotive navigation systems for Garmin. I did the systems analysis and debugging of the motorcycle applications of the Garmin 26xx series of GPSR's. I still do that for Garmin - this summer I will be riding around testing next year's product. Comparing the aftermarket products to the Phaeton nav system, I can see where VW 'missed' an opportunity with the Phaeton nav system (Touareg as well) - that was the opportunity to make the system useful for quick 'single-look' reference, in addition to the capability it currently has as a navigator.
The big question is whether or not the processor in the Phaeton unit has the 'horsepower' needed to handle dynamic display of street names on the main map. I kind of doubt that it does, which does not bode well for a future software upgrade.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note: * Other related navigation discussions -
Navigation System - How many CD's?
 Navigation System - Why don't I see street names?
DVD Nav


_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:08 PM 7-6-2009_


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## atlantaallen2 (Mar 7, 2005)

I,too, have read all the bad press on the nav system and after driving only Mercedes for 15 years, don't really think it's too bad. In some ways it's better than MB.
MB nav system doesn't show all the street names either.
While coming home from the Atlanta airport last Sunday on the I-285 perimeter, traffic came to a halt and I was in a massive traffic jam.
I pressed "alternate route" on the nav system and up came a screen showing I needed to avoid the next six miles of freeway. It showed me how to get around the mess perfectly.
I was very impressed how well it did this task since it has taken me on some really strange routes at other times.
I'm just wondering how it knew that I should have avoided that six mile stretch of interstate.
Is it sat. info beamed to system or does pressing "alternate route" always take you around six miles of the road you're on?
I agree that the map itself is pretty lousy ( and not for just leaving off street names- many others don't give you all the street names ). The nav part of the system, though, is OK. It idi it's job when I really needed it and wasn't just testing it.
Allen


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (atlantaallen2)*

That is a great question. It certainly would be nice in Hotlanta for sure. Did it get downloaded info about immediate traffic problems in order to know how to redirect you? That is a good question. I seem to doubt it but it would be great if it were that intelligent. Next time this happens, let us know if the same thing happens again.


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## dadler (May 14, 2005)

I found that while the headup nav display is active on the display (infront of the driver) and you press the whell on the steering wheel, the voice commands are activated so as a driver you can hear instructions about the next turn without looking down-the voice commands are usually only played by the system when it wants to-this way you can force the instruction on command


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dadler)*

Excellent tip, David, thanks for sharing that one. I did not know you could do that.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (atlantaallen2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *atlantaallen2* »_I'm just wondering how it knew that I should have avoided that six mile stretch of interstate.

Allen,
You can designate just how much you want it to avoid. Once you've selected Alternate Route, use the rotary knob to select the amount of distance you wish to bypass, then select Update Route Guidance.


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Awesome tips here guys and gals! Very helpful.


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## nscheetz (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*

Michael -
I have a 2004 W12 but for some reason my NAV system doesn't provide any detail maps (in fact, when I push the MAP button I get a Telephone screen and the notification that a phone is not currently attached, the irony of that is quite frustrating since I evidently can't attach one anyway despite having an antenae in the center console...) I have the correct CD in the system and get accurate route guidance at the street level, but my display only shows major roads and interstates, and I never get a driver display with the Nav. Am I missing something? I can get the split screen but again, no detail.


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Thanks Michael but let me ask this question. If I wanted to go to 5667 Anywhere, California, would I put in the disc that pertains to California , program in the address and leave that disc for the California region in the machine even though I begin my trip in Alabama?? Let's assume I don't want POI or any detail along the way and all I need is step by step instructions on how to get there. 

I have used navigation to direct me from somewhere on disk A to somewhere on disk B (about 20 miles from the boundary of disk A). The system knew where I was until I was on small secondary roads (a residental area). I didn't need to switch disks... I have been very happy and impressed with the navigation system's primary functionality (navigating me to a destination).


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (nscheetz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nscheetz* »_I have a 2004 W12 but for some reason my NAV system doesn't provide any detail maps (in fact, when I push the MAP button I get a Telephone screen and the notification that a phone is not currently attached, the irony of that is quite frustrating since I evidently can't attach one anyway despite having an antenae in the center console...) I have the correct CD in the system and get accurate route guidance at the street level, but my display only shows major roads and interstates, and I never get a driver display with the Nav. Am I missing something? I can get the split screen but again, no detail.

Hi Ned:
Welcome to the forum. I can only think of one possible cause of the problem that you report, and that is that the car is not properly configured (coded) in software to indicate that it has a navigation system installed.
All Phaetons sold in North America come with navigation, however, nav is optional on Phaetons sold in some other markets, so for this reason, it is possible to code the car to indicate that it is configured with a telephone (which you do not have) but without navigation (which you do have).
Here is how I suggest you approach the problem. Have a look at the picture below, which shows a European Phaeton Front Information Display and Control Head. Note the difference between the labels on the large buttons (the 8 buttons in a horizontal row) between the European car and your car (there SHOULD be a difference - if your car looks like this, then you have the wrong part number display installed!) Also note the difference evident in the buttons surrounding the volume control dial in the lower left. Now, see if the buttons in your car perform the same functions as the buttons in the photo. If so, then the car is not coded correctly.
Have your dealer investigate the coding of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head - this is controller number 07. All North American Phaetons are coded the same way - 0500305. The only possible exception is if there is no rear seat control panel for the air conditioning, something that is standard on a W12. My guess is that your car might be coded to indicate that it does have a telephone, but does not have navigation. It is possible that someone replaced the display unit, but did not correctly code the new display when they replaced it.
The coding process is simple for the dealer to do, and should not take more than about half an hour. In fact, the diagnostic scan tool that the technician uses (the VAS 5052 scan tool) will provide step by step guidance to the technician to ensure that they enter the correct code. I have listed the different coding possibilities below (might look Greek to you, but the tech should understand it). You might also suggest that your technician compare the coding of your car (other controllers as well) with the coding of other W12 Phaetons that are shown on the list at this link: Controller Lists from Phaetons. This will help them comprehend coding of a unfamiliar vehicle. If all else fails - just ask them to replace the Front Information Display and Control Head with a new one. Directions for accomplishing that task are here: Replacement of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head.
Let us know how it works out.
Michael
*European Phaeton Button layout*








*J523 Front Information Display and Control Head coding*;
Phaeton (3D) - Front Information Display Control Head - CCH - (J523) Coding
xxxxxx?  The question mark indicates the position of the digit described below. The numbers are cumulative, so, navigation installed and CD installed results in a code of *5*.
+1 Navigation Installed (J401 module)
+2 Voice Activation Installed (for cell phone only - not for OnStar)
+4 CD Changer Installed (R41 module)
xxxxx?x
+1 TV Tuner Installed
+2 Telephone Installed (cell phone - not OnStar)
+4 Test Mode 1 selected
xxxx?xx
+1 Seat Memory Installed
+2 Tire Pressure Monitoring System installed
+4 Parking Heater (Webasto overnight heater) installed
x?xxxxx
+0 None of the three configurations below
+1 Rear Air Conditioning Control Head installed (typical)
+2 Rear Central Control Head Installed (very rare - this is a rear duplicate of the front control functions)
+4 Byte Coding Valid (always added to the total)


_Modified by PanEuropean at 7:18 PM 1-24-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (nscheetz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nscheetz* »_...in fact, when I push the MAP button I get a Telephone screen...

Some additional information for you: If an earlier production North American Phaeton - a car that has a MAP and a MANUAL button on the J523 - is given a flash update with the version 0223 software update CD, the buttons will be reassigned so that the MAP button activates the phone system (whether or not it is installed), and the MANUAL button displays an 'info' screen, showing the present location of your vehicle.
There is no fix for this mistake, all that can be done is to replace the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head. When the old unit is sent back to VW in exchange, the overhaul facility will replace the button strip across the front with appropriately labeled buttons. The buttons cannot be replaced in the field, only at the overhaul facility.
Michael
*DO NOT use this update CD...*








*On J523 Displays that have these buttons on them!*










_Modified by PanEuropean at 7:19 PM 1-24-2008_


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
The effects of using the update on an old J523 (infotainment) unit are:
1. More reliable functioning of the J523 (infotainment) unit.
2. Slightly different feature set:
• Deleted: Manual button (for accessing the documentation on the European Navigation CD; it does nothing on NAR vehicles)
• Added: Info (gives current position, city); Phone: for accessing the Phone feature (only works if you have the integrated phone system - you won't have this with an older J523).
3. Incorrect button labels for a few buttons.

It may be worth the trade-off (a few incorrect labels) for the gain in functionality and system stability. 
A more interesting observation from the your post is that it suggests the units may be able to be reconfigured (flashed) to support some of the functionality seen in some of the European Phaetons (TV button; turn off TPMS; support for AUX Video (back-up camera); etc.). Michael, is the update CD shown in your post targeted at the North American Region, ROW, or all markets?
It also suggests that (maybe) one could replace the welcome "splash screen" with something customized to the individual - wouldn't that be nifty??


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## nscheetz (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*

Michael
Thanks! Evidently the dealer has corrected my limited detail on my nav system issue while they've been working on the bigger transmission issue, and some other power related issues. Thanks for all your help and I trust everything will ultimately get worked out. I am curious though about the flash update and Copernicus' thought on if that would allow auxilarry video input, specifically for the Alipine Vehicle hub as a great iPod solution.
Ned


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (nscheetz)*

Hi Ned,
In my post above, I should have explicitly pointed out that although it may be technically within the realm of possibility, it is very unlikely we will see such mods take place. Such changes are *risky*, would take a very significant amount of engineering resources to to implement and test in order to establish a method, etc.... 
Douglas


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: Discovered something new on the Nav (PanEuropean)*

I have the same problem as 'nscheety' (no detail other than major highways and no phone connected announcement on the screen). What effect would series one or series two NAV discs have on the problem? I am using the updated series 2 NAV discs. If the system was flashed (updated) by incorrectly using the wrong disc that you have shown, can a reflash using the correct CD be done? Not in a big hurry to take the car out of service to do a screen replacement.
RB


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

The 2004 Phaetons Infotainment (with manual button) systems were not set up for phones, you should not get a "Phone" announcement unless the extended wire harness is present, flash or no flash. 
As for NAV detail, what scale are you viewing your Nav screen at? And what preferences do you have selected?
~PC


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

PC:
If you flash an 'old' J523 - meaning, one with the MANUAL button on it - with the 0223 software update, you *will *wind up re-assigning the buttons same as the newer NAR J523's, and you *will *get a telephone screen if you press the MAP button - wire harness or no wire harness.
Don't ask me how I learned this...








Michael


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Ran the full scale, min to max, still only major highways showed. Looks like my next stop will be the dealerships Phaeton tech. If all else fails I have my handheld (I sail) if I need to travel to unknown areas.
RB


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Rowayton)*

This is going to sound like a stupid question, but is the correct CD-ROM in the player? All the CD-ROMs have "major highways" on them, but secondary roads are only mapped out on their respective discs.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Rowayton)*

Hi Ronald:
Chris is 'dead-on' with his suggestion. If you can only see the major highways, then you do not have the correct CD for the area you are presently located in loaded in the nav player.
By the way, this is fairly common behavior for all GPS receivers - a Garmin GPSR will do the same thing if you don't have the 'detail' maps for the region you are in loaded - it will just show you the main highways.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

For the first time, I was a little let down by my nav system. I programmed it to take me to Destin, FL in the "quick" mode and also "with highway" and it wanted to take me way out of the way. In fact this option was going to take me far west to Pensacola before finally turning me towards the east. This was not only 1 hour further but almost 70 miles too far. 
I knew though how to get there even without the nav as I've gone there every year of my life and I also knew that if I detoured from the recommended directions it would recompute for me and begin a new route guidance. I forced it to re-route us as we got off of the interstate in south Alabama and indeed we discovered a path that seems better than my old way of getting there http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
So I guess my question is what is the difference in "quick" and "short" on the menu? 
I wish that "quick" would use both highway (which I guess actually means interstate) and state roads in any combination necessary to get me there as quick as possible. It seems to want to stick to interstates as far as possible when in "highway" mode even if it takes you 100 miles out of the way.
I also noticed when in the "no highway" mode, it would constantly tell me to exit the freeway , get onto a paralleling state road, get back on the interstate, back to the side road (this pattern repeated several times) until I gave up and later made common sense judgements on my own. I guess in the "short" mode, it is tabulating to the nearest mile which path is the shortest even if getting off the interstate back and forth several times would save you 5 miles!!! On a 250 mile trip this is unreasonable.
Really don't know what I was doing wrong. Is their a default position that I should consider next time?
It only allows you to choose one of several options. 1) Highway versus non-highway, 2) quick versus short, and 3) toll roads versus non toll roads. This to me causes confusion. Sometimes a side road may in fact not only be the shortest route but also the quickest.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
The performance you encountered is typical of all navigation systems (OEM or aftermarket), and is based on the 'road characteristics' that are stored for each street or highway in the cartography provided by Navteq. It's not really a nav computer issue.
I have attached two photos below that show your route as constructed by an aftermarket program (MapSource, from Garmin) using the most up to date Navteq cartography. The first route was calculated with the criteria set to 'fastest route', and allowing the use of multi-lane controlled access expressways (the precise definition of the word 'highways'). The second route was constructed with the criteria set to 'shortest route', with highways disallowed. My guess is that the results you see below are probably similar to the results you would have seen in your Phaeton.
The 'avoid highways' option in auto navigation systems is intended to keep the driver off high speed, controlled access highways. This option is attractive to new (16 year old) drivers, or to people who drive very infrequently and are not comfortable with accelerating, merging, and so forth (your maiden aunt, who learned to drive before Eisenhower built the Interstate system) - in other words, folks who want to stick to a conventional 'city route', or, a highway route that uses an old-fashioned highway - two lanes, with a dotted line down the middle. The 'shortest' route option is rarely a useful choice for people who are driving their own car. It is, however, a necessary choice for people such as taxi and limo drivers who charge by the mile.
When you encountered the odd behavior of the nav system telling you to get on and off the interstate, it was (as you guessed) the system giving first priority to the shortest route, and second priority to staying off controlled access highways. So, what it was doing was trying to keep you off the interstate, but only when this could be done without increasing the route mileage.
For those of us who own our own vehicles, we should leave the system at the default settings, which are 'quick' and 'with highways'. When the system calculates a 'quick' route, it looks at the number of traffic lights on various roads, as well as the speed limits on the various roads, and calculates the fastest route in terms of total travel time, making allowance for a certain percentage of time that you will spend at red lights. This is why the 'quickest' route is often longer than you might think - but, if you try it out, it usually will be quicker, because you will encounter either fewer traffic lights, or higher speed limits.
I test new GPSRs for Garmin - on motorcycles - and ride about 25,000 miles every year testing GPSRs. The algorithms used to optimize route calculations are very complex, and depend (for the most part) on the data on the CD, not the programming of the nav unit itself. When I made the trip from Canada to Alabama, I tested a new Garmin GPSR along the way, and compared the function of the Phaeton unit to this new, top of the line Garmin unit. When the routing criteria was set the same on both, the routes were also the same on both. The Garmin unit was faster, of course, but it was also 5 years newer in design.
Michael
*Quickest Route - Highways Allowed*








*Shortest Route - Avoid Highways*
3 hours more driving time to save about 15 miles of driving. 








*A tale of two nav systems...*
The aftermarket unit shown is a Garmin 7200, with satellite traffic reception. 
It will go on sale in December 2005, for about USD $2,000, including the XM satellite antenna.










_Modified by PanEuropean at 7:40 PM 1-24-2008_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks Michael for the unbelieavable detailed reply. You amaze me.
So quick and with highways is where I will program it. That is where I will most likely leave it. The first route you showed above is the exact route I took. Overall, I still am happy with the system as it didn't make any mistakes like telling me to turn into someones driveway by mistake!
The number of signals, turns, and speed limit issues is probably why it wanted me to go so far southwest before finally turning eastward.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Michael,
The "shorter" route seems to 26 km longer???


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Yes, you are right - sharp eyes you have, you youngster!







I guess the software is struggling to keep it short, but keep the person off highways. That's a good example of how two different criteria can (unintentionally) conflict with each other.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:* Related discussion - TB: Phaeton Technical Bulletin 90-05-05 "Clock Runs Too Slow"


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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