# Got smoked by an M3



## Timster (May 23, 2012)

Last night while driving home one of those new M3 coupes came up behind me pretty quick.. I was in sixth gear at the time, driving about 80ish. He proceeded into the lane next to me, and we both launched. The M3 definitely pulled on me from 80 to 100... Not by a lot, but he was definitely quicker. I did catch up to him after but this was at about 110-120, although he may have eased off a little...not sure. Anyways, I was pretty shocked considering the torque on one of those is 295 ft/lb. I had it in 6th though and just floored it. Perhaps I should have dropped it into 4th? Anyway, a little bummed about it, especially since with the APR tune I am at approx 430 ft/lb, and 414 hp. I guess I need to learn how to drive this pocket rocket a little better...:banghead:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

When the M3 floored it the autobox would drop a few gears, you didn't. 
If you had dropped a few gear you would wipe the floor with it.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Timster said:


> Last night while driving home one of those new M3 coupes came up behind me pretty quick.. I was in sixth gear at the time, driving about 80ish. He proceeded into the lane next to me, and we both launched. The M3 definitely pulled on me from 80 to 100... Not by a lot, but he was definitely quicker. I did catch up to him after but this was at about 110-120, although he may have eased off a little...not sure. Anyways, I was pretty shocked considering the torque on one of those is 295 ft/lb. I had it in 6th though and just floored it. Perhaps I should have dropped it into 4th? Anyway, a little bummed about it, especially since with the APR tune I am at approx 430 ft/lb, and 414 hp. I guess I need to learn how to drive this pocket rocket a little better...:banghead:


Of course you should have dropped to 4th!


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Timster Timster Timster...you were in 6th? wtf. drop into 4th and punch it chewie! you would have smoked his beans for sure. he also probably had dct which is a nice advantage.

as always, driver skill is way more important than the car being driven.


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## crackkills (Mar 10, 2007)

Even if he had dropped it into fourth or 3rd at 80mph the M3 would pull on our cars. Don't see how a stock TTRS would wipe the floor against the M3.


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## crackkills (Mar 10, 2007)

whoops didn't see the chipped part! :banghead:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

crackkills said:


> Even if he had dropped it into fourth or 3rd at 80mph the M3 would pull on our cars. Don't see how a stock TTRS would wipe the floor against the M3.


Stock. ???
It has 414 hp.


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

crackkills said:


> Even if he had dropped it into fourth or 3rd at 80mph the M3 would pull on our cars. Don't see how a stock TTRS would wipe the floor against the M3.


even stock vs stock i would put my money on the ttrs walking the m3. i owned an e92 dct m3 just before the ttrs so i have a bit of experience with both. while the m3 is fast for sure, the rs is, imo, the quicker of the two.

add in stage 1 and it should be a walk in the park. :thumbup:

so when you two lined up, you figured 6th gear is the best one for a race?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Can't believe you don't understand why you lost when you raced in 6th....

Hope this isn't a troll.


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

canuckttrs said:


> even stock vs stock i would put my money on the ttrs walking the m3. i owned an e92 dct m3 just before the ttrs so i have a bit of experience with both. while the m3 is fast for sure, the rs is, imo, the quicker of the two.
> 
> add in stage 1 and it should be a walk in the park. :thumbup:
> 
> so when you two lined up, you figured 6th gear is the best one for a race?


, 

Well, first, I'm used to driving an automatic and having it downshift for me  . Second, at 80 plus mph, rpms are in the 3k range, which is where torque is maxed when boost is engaged, no? The RS pulls pretty hard in 6th when full throttle...but I guess down shifiting is def the way to go... Next time I'll know what to do. 

So what's the consensus, 4th, or 3rd at 80?


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Unless you are doing pulls with someone you know and agree upon the rules ahead of time, there is no way a street encounter is worth any discussion in terms of which car is quicker. Lets bench race anyways based on assumptions 

A chipped TTRS is about the same hp or a bit more than a stock M3 and rolling at 80mph more or less negates the weight difference. Regardless of whether he had a stick or DCT, we know you were in 6th and if he downshifted when he pulled next to you, he wins plain and simple. If I were him, I would have downshifted before pulling next to you ... (on a closed course of course  )


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## i0n (Oct 29, 2012)

Timster said:


> Second, at 80 plus mph, rpms are in the 3k range, which is where torque is maxed when boost is engaged, no?


Even though you're at max engine torque in 6th gear, after taking into account the transmission, you're getting much less torque at the wheels than you would get if you were in a lower gear, even though the engine would not be putting out its maximum torque in a lower gear.

Imagine riding a bicycle. Some guy pulls up next to you and wants to race. You're in 21st gear and he's much lower. You stand up, putting all your weight on the pedals (max torque). He simply pedals faster (less torque at the pedals), but because his bike is geared lower he accelerates much faster (more torque at the wheels) and smokes you. Meanwhile, you're still standing on your pedals waiting for your bike to slowly gain speed.



Timster said:


> So what's the consensus, 4th, or 3rd at 80?


You want to be in as low a gear as possible, while also taking into account shift times if you're going to be close to red-line.


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## hitmanhite (Jun 17, 2002)

So did the M3 have mods? Years and years of autobahn driving tells me the M3 is gonna take you most of the time on top end, but I'm sure no one here wants to hear that........now on the NurBurgring, it's another story.......even though the BMV guys will not believe that either. In my experiences, it's 90% driver with typically MATCHED machines. Sound like 6th gear bought you out easily.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Timster said:


> ,
> 
> Well, first, I'm used to driving an automatic and having it downshift for me  . Second, at 80 plus mph, rpms are in the 3k range, which is where torque is maxed when boost is engaged, no? The RS pulls pretty hard in 6th when full throttle...but I guess down shifiting is def the way to go... Next time I'll know what to do.
> 
> So what's the consensus, 4th, or 3rd at 80?


80 should be 4th..


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Timster said:


> ,
> 
> Well, first, I'm used to driving an automatic and having it downshift for me


Sorry Timster, but I am pretty skeptical this is a real post from a real TTRS owner. :thumbdown:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Timster said:


> ,
> 
> Well, first, I'm used to driving an automatic and having it downshift for me  . Second, at 80 plus mph, rpms are in the 3k range, which is where torque is maxed when boost is engaged, no? The RS pulls pretty hard in 6th when full throttle...but I guess down shifiting is def the way to go... Next time I'll know what to do.
> 
> So what's the consensus, 4th, or 3rd at 80?


You want to be in the gear that puts the RPM at the maximum engine _power_, not torque. Power output of the engine is approximately power output at the ground (minus losses), while torque output at the engine needs to go through transmission ratio multipliers until you get to torque output at the ground. But if you crunch the numbers, maximizing ground torque and maximizing engine power will be equivalent.

For the TT-RS power curve, this basically says keep the RPM as high as possible.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

*ive done this as well*

I had a couple of pulls with the new M3 from 70-120ish. I dropped it down into 4th to be cruising 70mph in 4th before the pull. It was neck and neck the entire way. Neither one of us could create any separation. My car was stock at the time (only have the apr dp now no tune yet) and I have no idea if the M3 had any mods but I would assume not. Just my 2 cents. I'm guessing with just the dp I would have created some slight separation but with Stage I or II it would not even have been close.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

near redline the turbo is running out of boost, i would say shift around 6.5k

with stg1 that is...


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

not a troll.. lol

I did some practice runs on the highway this morning (private highway  ) Dropping into fourth definitely gives additional pull vs 6th at 3k rpm. Next time I'll make sure I have the RS in the appropriate gear. At the time though, and with my lack of experience, I thought I'd be able take the M3 in 6th... 'cause it seemed to pull pretty hard.

:banghead:


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## JGreen76 (Aug 25, 2012)

You still win the BEST of the two cars award. Great looking TTRS.


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Timster said:


> not a troll.. lol
> 
> I did some practice runs on the highway this morning (private highway  ) Dropping into fourth definitely gives additional pull vs 6th at 3k rpm. Next time I'll make sure I have the RS in the appropriate gear. At the time though, and with my lack of experience, I thought I'd be able take the M3 in 6th... 'cause it seemed to pull pretty hard.
> 
> :banghead:


just don't let it happen again. who knows the damage to our image that has occured on m3 forums


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Timster said:


> not a troll.. lol
> 
> I did some practice runs on the highway this morning (private highway  ) Dropping into fourth definitely gives additional pull vs 6th at 3k rpm. Next time I'll make sure I have the RS in the appropriate gear. At the time though, and with my lack of experience, I thought I'd be able take the M3 in 6th... 'cause it seemed to pull pretty hard.
> 
> :banghead:


If you're just in the one gear (4th for example) it should be a pretty good matchup but if you have to shift through a bunch of gears and the M3 has DCT, you'll have a tough time because the M can shift in 80ms with right right foot planted to the floor. Tough to beat that. :thumbup:

When the new F80 M3 arrives, you better have StageII to be able to compete!

"Expected to hit the market in 2014, the F80 M3 has been conducting road testing since the summer of 2011. Here is the most up to date facts known about the F80 M3 (as of July 2012):
Lighter than current M3
targeting E46 M3 weight (source)
More powerful than current M3
approximately same HP, but around 100 lb-ft more torque (in range of 395 lb-ft) (source)
Faster than current M3
More efficient than current M3
Powered by an inline 6 cylinder multi turbo engine (source, source)
Offered with optional or standard manual transmission
Electric Power Steering (completely reworked for precision for M3/M4)
Tires (from prototype) - Michelin Pilot Super Sport: 255/35/19 (front), 275/35/19 (rear)
Front styling to feature elements from the M6 and 1M coupe, with Air Curtain technology (our render)
Hood to feature power/vent bump
M3 Introduced late 2013 - early 2014 (concept debuts earlier)
M3 European Delivery begins June 2014, at earliest
M4 Introduced no earlier than late 2014"


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## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

Timster said:


> ,
> 
> Well, first, I'm used to driving an automatic and having it downshift for me  . Second, at 80 plus mph, rpms are in the 3k range, which is where torque is maxed when boost is engaged, no? The RS pulls pretty hard in 6th when full throttle...but I guess down shifiting is def the way to go... Next time I'll know what to do.
> 
> So what's the consensus, 4th, or 3rd at 80?



Still having a hard time believing this aint a troll ....Shift down to near redline, shift up 
near each redline and keeping is wailing till u run out of road....

And u might want to invest in some supervised track time if you're running around with 450 lb/ft of torque and don't the the basics of driving a sports car....


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

YYC Dubber said:


> Still having a hard time believing this aint a troll ....Shift down to near redline, shift up
> near each redline and keeping is wailing till u run out of road....
> 
> And u might want to invest in some supervised track time if you're running around with 450 lb/ft of torque and don't the the basics of driving a sports car....


Dude, I'm a middle aged old fart, who drove an automatic for 7 years... An Jeep SRT8 automatic. Before that I had a jeep wrangler... No experience driving a manual sports car...

Chill about the troll BS


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Timster said:


> Last night while driving home one of those new M3 coupes came up behind me pretty quick.. I was in sixth gear at the time, driving about 80ish. He proceeded into the lane next to me, and we both launched. The M3 definitely pulled on me from 80 to 100... Not by a lot, but he was definitely quicker. I did catch up to him after but this was at about 110-120, although he may have eased off a little...not sure. Anyways, I was pretty shocked considering the torque on one of those is 295 ft/lb. I had it in 6th though and just floored it. Perhaps I should have dropped it into 4th? Anyway, a little bummed about it, especially since with the APR tune I am at approx 430 ft/lb, and 414 hp. I guess I need to learn how to drive this pocket rocket a little better...:banghead:


You would have beat him easily if you were in the right gear


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

If it was snowing, you would win


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

pal said:


> If it was snowing, you would win


LOL:laugh:


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

pal said:


> If it was snowing, you would win


This is no joke. It's why I bought my TTS, and now TTRS. I didn't want to drive a boring car (likely and SUV) in the winter. Come December, the Vettes and Porsches will be all packed up.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

pal said:


> If it was snowing, you would win


This is no joke. It's why I bought my TTS, and now TTRS. I didn't want to drive a boring car (likely and SUV) in the winter. Come December, the Vettes and Porsches will be all packed up. The Bimmer will be tip toeing around.


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## Southshorettrs (Jul 15, 2012)

Hey OP I live in MA myself and own both a 2010 M3 E90 6mt and a TTRS. Do you happen to know (I know this post was a while back) what color the M3 was? It all depends on if the M3 is supercharged and what types of bolt ons the vehicle had. If that M3 had a DCT and all the bolt ons but no SC and with your tune, the TTRS will walk the M3. My M3 had every bolt on you could have and 4.10 gears and the stage 2 TTRS just has so much power and torque plus a big weight advantage it is hard for the M3 to hang.

Now if the M is supercharged (mine is currently with a VF620 kit) the M beats the TTRS, but not byuch at all and it's up in the high end of the speed range. He have to remember the M3 is basically a race bred engine and our TTRS cannot come close to the rev and flat torque line a SC M3 provides. Plus if that M3 has a DCT, this is one of the best transmissions out there and no matter how good we shift we cannot shift as fast as that tranny can.

The M also struggles with traction when SC, so that is another advantage the TT has. Although, with my stage 2 TTRS, I have traction issues myself in this cold weather! But boy does this car love colder temps now. It feels so strong with the stage 2. I murdered a 996 turbo over the holiday weekend with some spirited driving! And that was still on the crappy Toyo tires, which I can't wait to throw out this winter and put some PSS on!

Send me a PM and maybe we can meet up so you can see what your TT can do next to a SC M3 since there aren't many in our area!

Cheers and drive safe!


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## twin__turbo (Apr 12, 2012)

I own both cars and stock for stock would be close. I would give the edge to my DCT at 80 mph due to better gearing. But a chipped TTRS, it shouldn't have been a race.


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## Southshorettrs (Jul 15, 2012)

Exactly my thoughts if the M was stock. It's all about being in the right gear OP. Audi I think did a pretty good job with the gearing on this car to always be in the power band if you choose to drive the car that way. I almost never use 6th unless its a long road trip. Stay in 4th and whatever car comes your way, you will quickly see them in your rear view with a tuned TTRS...depending in the car of course! 

I only know of a few SC M3s in MA (one is black sedan and has a huge TURNERMOTORSPORTS STICKER ON THE TOP WINDSHIELD....horrible if you ask me, other was a white sedan with more crap on it than you could ever imagine..sitting on consignment at BMW Norwood)


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

It was a blue M3...I don't think it was supercharged or it would of smoked me bad. He was pulling on me while in 6th,but it it wasn't like I was owned..


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## NamJa (Jul 31, 2012)

Timster said:


> It was a blue M3...I don't think it was supercharged or it would of smoked me bad. He was pulling on me while in 6th,but it it wasn't like I was owned..


you were owned when you admitted you didn't shift down  I know what you mean, though; a sixth gear pull is so strong you don't always immediately think about how MUCH more it will pull if you down shift. I've done that passing cars, too.


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

NamJa said:


> you were owned when you admitted you didn't shift down  I know what you mean, though; a sixth gear pull is so strong you don't always immediately think about how MUCH more it will pull if you down shift. I've done that passing cars, too.


lol


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## Southshorettrs (Jul 15, 2012)

Monte Carlo blue M3 huh...don't see that color often anywhere especially in the northeast. Try finding him again...troll the streets!! Haha. You will get your revenge and it will be glorious..the guys on the M forums do not give the TTRS any credit or respect. They are two different cars there is no question about that, but the TTRS is a monster when properly tuned and the fact that we have a 300lb weight advantage is a big plus too! Now if the ECU tuners can figure out what is going in with their out of the box product they are selling it would be an even more capable car. 

Both are great cars and until M guys drive this car they really don't know how good of a vehicle this is for the price that it is. A true RS car that the US has not had in quite a while. And can compete with the Ms and AMGs of the world. 

I always see a C63 AMG around me but I can never get him to not drive like a grandma in the early mornings during the summer when we were both going to play golf..


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## Timster (May 23, 2012)

:thumbup: 



Southshorettrs said:


> Monte Carlo blue M3 huh...don't see that color often anywhere especially in the northeast. Try finding him again...troll the streets!! Haha. You will get your revenge and it will be glorious..the guys on the M forums do not give the TTRS any credit or respect. They are two different cars there is no question about that, but the TTRS is a monster when properly tuned and the fact that we have a 300lb weight advantage is a big plus too! Now if the ECU tuners can figure out what is going in with their out of the box product they are selling it would be an even more capable car.
> 
> Both are great cars and until M guys drive this car they really don't know how good of a vehicle this is for the price that it is. A true RS car that the US has not had in quite a while. And can compete with the Ms and AMGs of the world.
> 
> I always see a C63 AMG around me but I can never get him to not drive like a grandma in the early mornings during the summer when we were both going to play golf..


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## Quisp (Mar 18, 2012)

M3's dont have much low end power, for them it is in the upper rpm's. O forget what the exact numbers are but i was really disappointed when i drove on becaue of that. I had a 335i that had some mods and i never had trouble with M3's unlesss they were modded too.


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