# Yup, carbon deposits already starting at 15,000 miles (24,000 kms)



## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

Just for the helluva it, we had a look inside the engine with a scope and there's already the start of deposits. That is using only 91 oct gas containing no ethanol and driving the car like I stole it when safe to do so(more often than not). Since I have yet to see proof that a catch can solves the issue, I chose not to get one and use my coin for other mods ... What is proven is a proper cleaning so I'll likely spend $500 next year which will be when the car close to 3 years old. 

opcorn:


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

What causes the carbon deposits? I remember back in the late 80's that BMW had a major issue with carbon on the valves due to poor gas grades. They used pecan shells to blast them off....pretty major work having to take it apart. They recommended Chevron fuel only with detergents...most all gas I see today has detergents? Am I wrong about that?


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

TTS is still FSI and not TFSI right? so that is one reason, another is not using 504/507 spec oil 

read through it all its interesting, especially page 19  

http://www.lubrizol.com/richmedia/E...A2008/UEIL2006LowerSAPS/UEIL2006LowerSAPS.pdf


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## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

GBinFla, best to do a search and you'll find lots of info pertaining to carbon deposits (especally on the RS4). Its an issue on all thew FSI engines (incl Porsches). Seems those with B7 RS4's were most vocal likely due to the fact that a 15% loss of power on a 420 HP engine is more noticeable than on a 200 HP powerplant. I had major deposits in my RS4 and after it was cleaned (one of the few who had it done under warranty due to having CEL's), the improvement in power was noticeable. 

TDI, no idea why I wouldnt have proper spec oil in my car ...


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

tdi-bart said:


> TTS is still FSI and not TFSI right? so that is one reason, another is not using 504/507 spec oil
> 
> read through it all its interesting, especially page 19
> 
> http://www.lubrizol.com/richmedia/E...A2008/UEIL2006LowerSAPS/UEIL2006LowerSAPS.pdf


 It's TFSI..........At the 2008 North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) in Detroit, Audi released the first Audi "S" model of the TT range - the Audi TTS quattro,[24] with a heavily revised 2.0 TFSI engine...is that right? 


And Audi is putting the oil in my car-are they putting in the wrong oil?


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Basically what it comes down to is in Audi's implementation of direct injection engines (TSI, FSI, TFSI) the fuel is injected into the cylinder so no fuel passes over the valves. No fuel on the valves means no cleaning agents ever touch the buldup on the valves. 

Part of the reason for the buildup is the PCV system. Combustion gases make their way into the crank case as a normal part of engine operation. These gases are filtered to some degree by cyclonic oil separators built into the valve cover in some engines (RS4, TTRS) and then the remaining gases get passed to the intake manifold so that they can be burnt off in the combustion chamber. Unfortunately some of that stuff sticks to the valves on the way through and starts the buildup. 

Also, if you've ever taken apart any of the intake plumbing on a turbocharged engine you'll find some oil. This likely gets blown by the seals in the turbo just in normal operation but again, once this hits the valves it can stick around. 

There's also a possibility that some of it is coming directly from the cylinders during combustion due to valve timing overlap. 

So a catch-can might help with some of this by adding a second filtration step after the cyclonic separators but it will not help with any turbo blow-by. 

Water injection might also help as it might be able to essentially steam clean the valves. 

I don't personally believe that operating temperature or the oil used make any difference in solving this problem. 

The best solution is the one that Audi has implemented on the new 1.8t variant of the EA888 engine, they've added some small port fuel injectors into the intake manifold. This should provide enough fuel to keep the valves clean, something Toyota has been doing for years.


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

Thanks for the explanation....that makes sense. So how do they fix it? Take the head off and blast the valves with some time of material? Or is it chemical?


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

GaBoYnFla said:


> Thanks for the explanation....that makes sense. So how do they fix it? Take the head off and blast the valves with some time of material? Or is it chemical?


 From reading about the procedure on the RS4 boards it sounds like they just pull the intake manifold and soak the valves in gasoline.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Basically what it comes down to is in Audi's implementation of direct injection engines (TSI, FSI, TFSI) the fuel is injected into the cylinder so no fuel passes over the valves. No fuel on the valves means no cleaning agents ever touch the buldup on the valves.
> 
> Part of the reason for the buildup is the PCV system. Combustion gases make their way into the crank case as a normal part of engine operation. These gases are filtered to some degree by cyclonic oil separators built into the valve cover in some engines (RS4, TTRS) and then the remaining gases get passed to the intake manifold so that they can be burnt off in the combustion chamber. Unfortunately some of that stuff sticks to the valves on the way through and starts the buildup.
> 
> ...


 Well I just ran outside and tried to pull the PCV hose off the RS engine, but it wouldn't budge with my hands. If someone gets a chance to yank it off, they should be able to see if any oil is still passing through the pipe and into the intake manifold. 

I've been trying to find a good catch can for the RS and I think I finally found something pretty good today. BFI makes a good can and set of hoses specifically for VAG engines with the correct connector types. It costs a goddamned fortune, but I like that it's a fully complete kit. If I find oil in the PCV hose as I mentioned above, I'm going to ask BFI if they can customize the hose a little bit to fit the 2.5L engine. It should be easy for them to do so I hope they don't give me any grief. Maybe some of you would like to do the same to give them a little incentive. 

My cars see at least 1,000km of track time and a whole lot of Autobahns every year. I can't really afford not to do this. 

http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bficcacroils1.html 

- Jeremy -


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

I've got a Radium catch can (with filter screens) ready to install along with a factory PCV hose so that I've got the correct ends. I need to do some more research and make sure that having the catch can exposed to boost off of the manifold will not be a problem before proceeding any further. 

http://www.lz7w.com/gallery3/index.php/ttrsmods/radium


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## OrangeA4 (Oct 31, 2000)

I think my solution to this problem will be to sell these cars when they are between 80k and 120k miles and buy something else. At which point this will be someone elses problem should they chose to deal with it. 
But it is a disappointing reality for these cars.


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## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

I've been told the following: 

1) Water/Meth is the best band-aid solution on current cars. 
2) 2014+ cars will be fitted with direct as well as rail injection. Apparently this will have a positive effect on "washing" down the valves AND provide a tuners nightmare ...


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## dogdrive (Oct 19, 2005)

Stevelev said:


> 1) Water/Meth is the best band-aid solution on current cars.


 THIS! :thumbup::thumbup: 

I have a water-meth injection kit and never been happier


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

GaBoYnFla said:


> It's TFSI..........At the 2008 North American International Auto Show (NAIAS) in Detroit, Audi released the first Audi "S" model of the TT range - the Audi TTS quattro,[24] with a heavily revised 2.0 TFSI engine...is that right?
> 
> 
> And Audi is putting the oil in my car-are they putting in the wrong oil?


 hmm well i was sure the new S3 has FSI, and that TTS is just that same engine... 

anyway recent TFSI' or TSI's also run oil hotter 10C hotter than older FSI's which is supposed to help too. audi dealers use crappier oil in north america compared to europe because emissions here i think are more lax.


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## oldster1 (Oct 24, 2011)

dogdrive said:


> THIS! :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> I have a water-meth injection kit and never been happier


 
can you tell us where you purchased it? 

tanks...


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## dogdrive (Oct 19, 2005)

oldster1 said:


> can you tell us where you purchased it?
> 
> tanks...


 I got them through Four Season Tuning. They are a vendor here, just call them at 714-997-5842, ask for James and tell them that dogdrive refer you to them. 
Water-meth is timing related and thefore you need a software for your car. 
I'm running APR 100 octane file in order to get this water-meth kit working. 

As far as tank goes, I use the windshield washer tank (size is significantly larger than the tank provided in the kit) 
The benefits are it looks very stealthy and larger tank = less water-meth fill up necessary 
The downside is I am no longer able to use the windshield washer anymore.


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## conneem-tt (Feb 17, 2008)

Doesn't seem like catch cans really help with deposits on the 2.0T. 

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148048 

the only thing with the forced induction FSI's is that they don't seem to suffer power loss as a result of deposits unlike the N/A motors. 

Water/Meth would seem like the better investment if you are keen to reduce deposits.


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## 32vSC (Oct 11, 2009)

Stevelev said:


> Just for the helluva it, we had a look inside the engine with a scope and there's already the start of deposits.


 I'm not surprised. 

I'm on the hook to provide before and after borescope pictures from doing the BG intake cleaning process on my 13k-mile TTS. I figure I'll get to it in about a month or so. 

I've done it to another make/model of car to clean out intake tract deposits and it works very well. 

Here's a link to a video: http://vimeo.com/3989681 of how it's done.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

32vSC said:


> I'm not surprised.
> 
> I'm on the hook to provide before and after borescope pictures from doing the BG intake cleaning process on my 13k-mile TTS. I figure I'll get to it in about a month or so.
> 
> ...


 The BG intake cleaning is what I plan to do at 15K, followed immediately by an engy oil and filter change. 

Low SAPS oil is a must. I asked my dealership about it. They said I have to special order the stuff ahead of the time and pay extra for it. Fine by me.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Stevelev said:


> Just for the helluva it, we had a look inside the engine with a scope and there's already the start of deposits. That is using only 91 oct gas containing no ethanol and driving the car like I stole it when safe to do so(more often than not). Since I have yet to see proof that a catch can solves the issue, I chose not to get one and use my coin for other mods ... What is proven is a proper cleaning so I'll likely spend $500 next year which will be when the car close to 3 years old.
> 
> opcorn:


 Did you notice an decrease in performance or efficiency with the dirty valves? I for one don't think that dirty valves are necessarily bad in of themselves. It's when they become so dirty that they don't properly seat when closed. In fact, with the valve not fully closed, you'll be dumping air fuel mix into the exhaust chamber, and thus even more buildup onto the back side of the valves. It then snowballs. Does that make sense? (I have no proof of this. It's just what I think has already happened once you notice the power loss or a CEL)


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

MoreGooderTT said:


> The BG intake cleaning is what I plan to do at 15K, followed immediately by an engy oil and filter change.
> 
> Low SAPS oil is a must. I asked my dealership about it. They said I have to special order the stuff ahead of the time and pay extra for it. Fine by me.


 any VW dealer stocks the oil, they use it in their diesels, the oil i put in my ttrs is this:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

My local dealer uses Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-40. That oil meets VW 505.00.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Find 507, which is even lower SAPS. Cost more though. In fact, what Bart listed above is a 504/507 approved oil. 

Here's a list: 
http://www.my-gti.com/2540


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

tdi-bart said:


> any VW dealer stocks the oil, they use it in their diesels, the oil i put in my ttrs is this:


 Interesting! I'll have to mention this to my dealer. Thanks.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

MoreGooderTT said:


> Find 507, which is even lower SAPS. Cost more though. In fact, what Bart listed above is a 504/507 approved oil.
> 
> Here's a list:
> http://www.my-gti.com/2540


 Good call. Any 5w-40 oils that are 507?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

GaBoYnFla said:


> So how do they fix it?


 Methanol injection is the only band aid fix for now.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

I have a copy of the 2012 Fluid Capacity Tables for Audis (see below). It lists all of the oil specs that it recommends for use in all 2012 cars. It claims that all of the TT's (TT, TTS, TTRS) should use VW 502 00 which is generally 5W-40. However, 502 00 isn't normally a low ash specification, so I spent a bit of time looking for oils that are 502 00 and also low ash. I can't find a definition of what amount of ash equates to a "low ash" (low SAPS) rating, but I believe it to be 1% or less. Here's what I've found: 

Most 502 00 oils have an ash content of around 1.2 - 1.4%, whereas 507 00 oils are around 0.7%. The problem with low ash oils is that the Base Number (BN) is reduced in relation to high ash oils. BN additives are used to neutralize acids which can cause corrosion, but BN additives are generally high in ash and sulphur. So if you find a low SAPS oil, it will generally have a lower BN. Luckily, BN deteriorates with time in an engine, so a simple solution is changing the oil more frequently (read: not 15,000 miles). 

So we're looking for an oil with the following criteria: 

VW 502 00 / SAE 5W-40 
Low SAPS (like 507 00) 
High Base Number 

I've found that Liqui Moly Top Tec 4100 meets these criteria: 

Viscosity class : 5W-40 
Viscosity at +40 °C : 85.0 mm²/s DIN 51562 
Viscosity at +100 °C : 14.0 mm²/s DIN 51562 
Viscosity index : 170 DIN ISO 2909 
Pour point : -39 °C DIN ISO 3016 
Ash, sulphate : 0.8 g/100 g DIN 51575 
Base number : 7.6 mg KOH/g DIN ISO 3771 
High temperature/High shear viscosity : 3.5 m.Pa.s CEC CL-23 

If anyone can find any other oils with similar or better specs, please post them here. And please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not an oil nerd (yet) like some people. 

- Jeremy - 



*** START: Audi 2012 Fluid Table for TT Variants: *** 

Component/System Capacity Part Number/Specification 

2.0T 
Oil and Filter Change 
4.5 L (4.8 qt.) VW 502 00 
Coolant 9.0 L (9.5 qt.) G 012 A8G 

2.0T H.O. 
Oil and Filter Change 
4.5 L (4.8 qt.) VW 502 00 
Coolant 8.6 L (9.1 qt.) G 012 A8G 

2.5L 
Oil and Filter Change 
6.5 L (6.9 qt.) VW 502 00 
Coolant 9.0 L (9.5 qt.) G 012 A8G 

6 Speed Manual Transmission (0A6) 
Initial Fill 2.3 L (2.4 qt.) G 052 171 A2 
Front Final Drive 0.9 L (1.0 qt.) G 052 145 S2 

Haldex Clutch Initial Fill 
0.85 L (0.9 qt.) G 055 175 A2 

Haldex Clutch Refill 
0.7 L (0.8 qt.) 
Rear Final Drive 0.95 L (1.0 qt.) G 052 145 S2 

6 Speed S-tronic Transmission 02E Initial Fill 
6.9 L (7.3 qt.) G 052 182 A2 
Refill 5.5 L (5.8 qt.) 
Bevel Box 0.9 L (1.0 qt.) G 052 145 S2 

Haldex Clutch Initial Fill 
0.85 L (0.9 qt.) G 055 175 A2 

Haldex Clutch Refill 
0.7 L (0.8 qt.) 
Rear Final Drive 0.95 L (1.0 qt.) G 052 145 S2 

Brake System 
- 1.0 L (1.1 qt.) B 000 750 

A/C System 
Refrigerant 500 ± 25g 
(17.6 ± 0.9 oz.) 
See ETKA 
PAG Oil-Sanden 
110 ± 10 cc 
(3.7 ± 0.3 fl. oz.) 
G 052 154 A2 
PAG Oil-Denso 90 ± 10 cc 
(3.0 ± 0.3 fl. oz.) 
G 052 300 A2 

Window/Headlamp Washer System 
- 3.8 L (4.0 qt.) G 052 164


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Marty said:


> Good call. Any 5w-40 oils that are 507?


 Do you live in an extremely cold environment? If not, you don't need a 5W oil. Additionally, I don't thinik we need 40 either. Why use a higher viscosity oil when all it will do is rob power and hurt efficiency?


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

MoreGooderTT said:


> Do you live in an extremely cold environment? If not, you don't need a 5W oil. Additionally, I don't thinik we need 40 either. Why use a higher viscosity oil when all it will do is rob power and hurt efficiency?


 I think Audi bills the TT, TTS and TTRS as sports cars and they realize that most TT variant drivers will be driving more aggressively than your typical Toyota Camry drivers. So a 5W oil is pretty typical among VAG vehicles to be thin enough to travel through the Turbo, etc when cold. and the 40 rating ensures that the oil pressure is high during performance driving. 

- Jeremy -


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

The oil's ability to perform when extremely hot is due to long chain polymers that stretch out when heated. 

Check this out, if you have time to read a small novel: 

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html 

Castrol's radial polymers are mentioned here, which I find interestin: 
http://www.castrol.com/castrol/genericarticle.do?categoryId=82915547&contentId=7025207


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## TT--AUDI--S4 (May 11, 2004)

32vSC said:


> BG
> 
> Here's a link to a video: http://vimeo.com/3989681 of how it's done.


 Very cool. :thumbup: 

If this works as well as demonstrated, I'm no longer concerned by this whole DI carbon scare.


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## neonova6 (Aug 26, 2011)

TT--AUDI--S4 said:


> Very cool. :thumbup:
> 
> If this works as well as demonstrated, I'm no longer concerned by this whole DI carbon scare.


 If it works. That's the operative question. I have my doubts, but only because that guys smile couldn't possibly have gotteny any more cheesy. 

Has anyone used this product before with similar results?


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

TT--AUDI--S4 said:


> Very cool. :thumbup:
> 
> If this works as well as demonstrated, I'm no longer concerned by this whole DI carbon scare.


 I searched high and low to try to buy one for myself, but it's more or less only sold to dealers. The retail price is $500 but I found a group buy on Audizine for $300 with 10 or more units ordered. Apparently BG is pretty receptive to enthusiasts wanting to buy them - not just auto shops looking to sell a service. It doesn't look like the GB ever took place, so I'm wondering if there's any interest in trying to start one here. The only problem is that we need a BG product reseller to act as our middleman. 

EDIT: *HO HO!* I found something else: the Mityvac MV5565. It's cheaper and available for online purchase. Toolsource.com has the canister and the nozzle for less than $200. 

- Jeremy -


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

- Jeremy - said:


> I searched high and low to try to buy one for myself, but it's more or less only sold to dealers. The retail price is $500 but I found a group buy on Audizine for $300 with 10 or more units ordered. Apparently BG is pretty receptive to enthusiasts wanting to buy them - not just auto shops looking to sell a service. It doesn't look like the GB ever took place, so I'm wondering if there's any interest in trying to start one here. The only problem is that we need a BG product reseller to act as our middleman.
> 
> EDIT: *HO HO!* I found something else: the Mityvac MV5565. It's cheaper and available for online purchase. Toolsource.com has the canister and the nozzle for less than $200.
> 
> - Jeremy -


 Great find! And, thanks to the video earlier in the thread, we know how simple it is to do, too!


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> TTS is still FSI and not TFSI right? so that is one reason, another is not using 504/507 spec oil
> 
> read through it all its interesting, especially page 19
> 
> http://www.lubrizol.com/richmedia/E...A2008/UEIL2006LowerSAPS/UEIL2006LowerSAPS.pdf


 Looks like the Lubrizol document doesn't say "Low SAPS" but "Lower SAPS" and Euro 4 oils. So while a Low SAPS oil would probably be best, maybe a mid-SAPS Euro 4 oil would be better choice than a high SAPS oil. 

Motul  X-clean 5W-30 and 5W-40 meets 502/ACEA C3 and is a Euro 4 oil.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

Awesome. The specs on the 8100 5W-40 are basically the same as the Lubri Moly. Now we've got two choices :beer: 

- Jeremy -


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

I anticipate my first oil change around the first week of April. I'm still struggling with what oil to buy.

After doing even more research, I have a new train of thought.

Use a low SAPS oil, 507 spec, such as the Castrol SLX Professional LL03 pictured earlier in the Thread, but halve the recommended oil change interval due to the lowered TBN.

But, check this interesting tool out:
http://sas-origin.onstreammedia.com/origin/lubrizol/EOACEA2009/RPTOOL2010Dep/rp/pc/index.html

Since our biggest concern is valve deposits and sludge, it really does look like 507 is the target.

While you're playing with that spider chart, click on Ford 934B and Daimler MB229.51. Interesting, wouldn't you agree?


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

^ Don't forget to read the disclaimer at the bottom of the first page. 

You can always try a 507 oil and do a used oil analysis during the interval by taking a sample through the dipstick tube with an oil pump. Blackstone sells pumps. I presume the TT comes with a dipstick tube. A dipstick was the first mod on my wife's Q5. 

-Dennis


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

I've decided to buy the Motul 8100 X-Clean 5W-40 for my first oil change. It's fully synthetic, low SAPS and has a high shearing tolerance. Even the TBN is relatively decent.

Looks like a nice oil. Too bad it's French 

- Jeremy -


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

- Jeremy - said:


> I've decided to buy the Motul 8100 X-Clean 5W-40 for my first oil change. It's fully synthetic, low SAPS and has a high shearing tolerance. Even the TBN is relatively decent.
> 
> Looks like a nice oil. Too bad it's French
> 
> - Jeremy -


Yah know, I"ve been seriously considering that as well. It's not a particularly familiar name in the US though. 

Interestingly, there's a disclaimer in the spec sheet that says don't use this oil for a vehical that requires 504/507. http://www.motul.com/system/product...ets/53/8100 X-clean 5W-40 (GB).pdf?1323964063

It does appear to meet a good many high standards though.

Where do you plan to purchase yours? Are you going to bring it with you to the dealer, or tell them what to buy?


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Here's a tread (albeit, very short) discussing the Motul oil:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2129898


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

MoreGooderTT said:


> Yah know, I"ve been seriously considering that as well. It's not a particularly familiar name in the US though.
> 
> Interestingly, there's a disclaimer in the spec sheet that says don't use this oil for a vehical that requires 504/507. http://www.motul.com/system/product...ets/53/8100 X-clean 5W-40 (GB).pdf?1323964063
> 
> ...


I live in Germany so I ordered some from a local site. But you can order it from ECStuning.com or probably even Amazon.com. You can take it to the dealer with you and ask them to use it but I prefer to change it myself. Either way works. I just happen to put a lot of track miles on my cars so I change my oil relatively frequently. It's cheaper and easier if I do it myself.

- Jeremy -


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

MoreGooderTT said:


> Here's a tread (albeit, very short) discussing the Motul oil:
> 
> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2129898


That's a good report but it's for the X-Cess version of the oil rather than the X-Clean version. The difference being that the X-Cess is meant for longer drain periods so it has a higher TBN and a higher SAPS content. The X-Clean is designed for less carbonization on a DFI engine which results in lower SAPS, lower TBN and shorter drain periods.

- Jeremy -


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Thanks for you valuable input Jeremy! I'm convinced about the Motul X-Clean too.


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## dsm1212 (Feb 23, 2012)

Sorry if way off base here, but I think this is related question. I don't know if this topic was specific to turbos or not, I know there were big sludge concerns with the 1.8Ts.

I just picked up an 09 3.2L MT Roadster with 21K miles. The oil had just been changed at an Audi dealer about 900 miles before I bought it. The oil is a little dirty already (no sludge that I can see). Not black, but I'm used to Honda's and Toyotas where the oil comes out looking clean after 5000 miles  and this is my first Audi/VW. So I asked an Audi dealer if this was typical and he said yes. How long should I be going until my next oil change? Can I really let this go for 10K miles?

steve


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

dsm1212 said:


> Sorry if way off base here, but I think this is related question. I don't know if this topic was specific to turbos or not, I know there were big sludge concerns with the 1.8Ts.
> 
> I just picked up an 09 3.2L MT Roadster with 21K miles. The oil had just been changed at an Audi dealer about 900 miles before I bought it. The oil is a little dirty already (no sludge that I can see). Not black, but I'm used to Honda's and Toyotas where the oil comes out looking clean after 5000 miles  and this is my first Audi/VW. So I asked an Audi dealer if this was typical and he said yes. How long should I be going until my next oil change? Can I really let this go for 10K miles?
> 
> steve


I had an R32 for 3.5 years and the oil was always brown/black. Oil color doesn't really indicate much. Depending on your driving style, you should be able to get 10k out of a good quality oil. If you're really concerned about it, you can send a sample to Blackstone Labs or something for analysis. But I think it helps if you know the brand/type of oil in the car. So you can either buy it again or avoid it, depending on the analysis 

- Jeremy -


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Well, today is the day. My TT get's its first oil change. Motul X-Clean is going in!

Meanwhile, since this important thread has sort of died, let's hear from the Stevlev on the current status of his car, and his battle with valve deposits.


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## Stevelev (Mar 4, 2004)

Nothing to report at this point. I've only put approx 2500 kms on the car since and have no issues. I doubt I'll notice a degradation of power over the next year or so and unless I get a CEL I won't worry about this until next spring at which point I may have my mechanic do a carbon clean.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Stevelev said:


> Nothing to report at this point. I've only put approx 2500 kms on the car since and have no issues. I doubt I'll notice a degradation of power over the next year or so and unless I get a CEL I won't worry about this until next spring at which point I may have my mechanic do a carbon clean.


 Interesting..... 
So, perhaps we should start considering the back of the valves and the intake manifold more like a chimney flue rather than the inside of an autoclave. Clean it only when it gets built up to the point where you start having performance degradation, or perhaps as a part of a long cycle scheduled valve maintenance. Meanwhile, don't worry about it.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

Also, there's this: 
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2211055 

I wonder if Audi runs a higher lambda in the hopes of getting some cleaning action at the back of the valves during the exhaust stroke, along with valve timing overlap.


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## 32vSC (Oct 11, 2009)

MoreGooderTT said:


> Meanwhile, since this important thread has sort of died,...


 I did the BG intake cleaning to my TTS this afternoon. I posted the mildly-successful or totally inconclusive results (your call) here: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...pe-Videos-Before-and-After-BG-Intake-Cleaning


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

After 100 miles on the new oil, I'm encountering mild MPG improvements. I have all of my fuel receipts from the day I bought the car, along withe the trip odo numbers. The vast majority of my fill-ups have been from the same pump at my local Shell station, so it should be about as perfect a study as possible. 

I'll tally up my MPG's after putting another 5K on the car and revive this thread at that time. 

Currently, when I'm driving agressively in a mix of city highway, I'm getting 28MPG. While driving Miss Daisy, I get 35. 

*edit* 
It could also be that the summer tires are offering less rolling resistance than my winters. This could be the real reason for the increased MPG.


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## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

tdi-bart said:


> TTS is still FSI and not TFSI right? so that is one reason, another is not using 504/507 spec oil


 Yes, the TT-S uses the older EA113 FSI motor, the 2011+ TT uses the new EA888 TSI motor with Audi VVL


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## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

MoreGooderTT said:


> *edit*
> It could also be that the summer tires are offering less rolling resistance than my winters. This could be the real reason for the increased MPG.


 Winter fuel also does not perform as well.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

caj1 said:


> Winter fuel also does not perform as well.


 Good point! I forgot about the summer/winter blends. Of course, I'm also using the A/C, which saps some power to, so it's hard to say. It's not quite apples to oranges, but perhaps oranges to tangerines. 

But.... 
The TT is rated 27 city 31 hwy by Audi. I'm getting 28 to 35. I consider this to be fantastic given that I drive a car that isn't supposed to be an econobox, and has some serious punch when I need it to manuever.


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## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

MoreGooderTT said:


> Good point! I forgot about the summer/winter blends. Of course, I'm also using the A/C, which saps some power to, so it's hard to say. It's not quite apples to oranges, but perhaps oranges to tangerines.
> 
> But....
> The TT is rated 27 city 31 hwy by Audi. I'm getting 28 to 35. I consider this to be fantastic given that I drive a car that isn't supposed to be an econobox, and has some serious punch when I need it to manuever.


 Nice numbers! I think I'm averaging closer to 23 mpg, but then again my right foot is generally planted on the floor


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

caj1 said:


> Nice numbers! I think I'm averaging closer to 23 mpg, but then again my right foot is generally planted on the floor


 I just took a nice drive today from my home to Augusta MO. Highway 94 is a fun, twisting adrenaline rush. Even though I was driving with the A/C on, suspension in Sport mode, and driving very aggressively, the DIS indicated 29.8 MPG round trip. I'm astonished. 

**** edit **** 

Sorry, OP... I realize I have threadjacked your thread. I'll try to keep it on topic henceforth. 

My primary interest is in finding the perfect oil for our TFSI's. At this point, I can say that with my recent oil change to Motul XClean has resulted in nothing negative to report, and some subjective positives.


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