# More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Some time ago, I promised I would do some research into the possibility of retrofitting an integrated phone into a Phaeton that was not equipped with phone preparation at the time it was built. I started doing the research into this prior to my last trip to Dresden in November, and was quite surprised by not only the complexity of the whole issue, but by the number of misunderstandings that all of us (myself included) have about phones in Phaetons.
Before looking specifically at the Phaeton, I need to lay some groundwork by providing a quick overview of some of the technological standards that will be discussed when we get to Phaeton-specific matters later on.
*Cellular Phone Transmission Protocols*
There are several different standards in use for cellular telephony. The most common, worldwide, is Global Standard for Mobile (GSM). This is the only standard used in Europe, which means that any European mobile user can connect to any European network provider. The whole process is transparent to the user – all they see when they get out of their home network provider’s area is the name of a different network provider on the display of the handset.
The European Community (EC) mandated GSM as the transmission standard for the whole EC many years ago when mobile telephony was in its infancy. This was a ‘public good’ decision, much like the EC directive that set the specifications for Radio Data Service (RDS) transmission of Traffic Message Channel (TMC) data via existing FM radio station frequency subcarriers.
In the USA several standards exist and compete with one another. The oldest established contemporary standard is analog transmission, which is what the OnStar system uses. Analog has its advantages, notably wider coverage per tower, which is great in rural areas, but it is very much an early standard – kind of like the standard for those monochrome computer monitors that displayed green colour text back in the early 1990s – and its time has come and gone. Support for analog will begin to be phased out towards the end of 2007.
GSM is used in North America, but a different frequency is used. In North America, GSM uses 1900 MHz. In the other 200 countries of the world, it uses 900 and 1800 MHz. You many have heard of ‘dual band’ or ‘tri band’ phones – this means a GSM phone that can use 900/1800 MHz (suitable for ROW only), or a GSM phone that can use 900, 1800 and 1900 MHz (suitable for use everywhere in the world). The phone automatically detects the appropriate frequency to use and connects to it.
Other popular standards used in the USA include Time Division Multiple Access (TDMA) and Code Division Multiple Access (CDMA). Within each of these categories, minor variations exist. All these systems are proprietary, meaning; you can’t use a TDMA phone on a CDMA network or vice-versa. (For more in-depth discussion of cellular telephony standards, you can look here: Cellular Technologies.
In the context of OEM supplied in-car telephone equipment, this means that in Europe, car manufacturers can offer hardware that supports 100% of the phone service providers, whereas in the USA, no matter which standard the OEM’s choose to support, about 60 to 70% of phone users will be forced to change service providers, due to incompatible standards being used.
*Bluetooth – just what does it mean for in car telephony?*
This is the topic that surprised me the most – meaning, this is the issue that so many of us have misunderstandings about.
Bluetooth itself is not telephone specific, it is a wireless communications protocol that is used to exchange information between two electronic devices within a short distance (15 feet or less) of each other. You can have communication between your computer and a device such as a camera, PDA, or telephone. You can also have Bluetooth communication between a VW diagnostic scan tool and a printer, or between your refrigerator and your kid’s lunchbox. In our context of OEM telephone installations, Bluetooth communication technology is used for one of two purposes:
a) To provide a communications link between a cellular telephone (in your pocket) and the vehicle, to allow some degree of control over the telephone from controls that are built into the vehicle, or;
b) To allow use of a untethered handset in conjunction with an OEM telephone system that uses a cellular telephone that must be physically connected to the car in order to operate.
The OEM Phaeton phone system uses Bluetooth for the latter purpose. I think that 99% of us thought that it used Bluetooth for the first reason, and that is not the case.
*Phaeton Phone Systems*
Let’s have a look at what kind of integrated telephony systems have been offered in the Phaeton.
One system – which has been quite popular in Europe, but has never been offered in North America – uses a fixed handset that is never removed from the car. This system provides full integration of all phone functions with the vehicle audio and infotainment system. In other words, you can look at your list of phone contacts on the J523 infotainment display, you see the caller ID of an incoming caller displayed on the screen between the speedometer and the tachometer, and you control the phone using either the buttons on the steering wheel or the buttons on the J523 infotainment system.
If you choose to use the phone in handsfree mode, you answer the call (or initiate the call) using the controls on the steering wheel, speak through the microphone in the roof, and listen through the same speakers as are used for listening to CDs – though not all speakers are used for telephone conversations (who needs to hear your wife asking you to buy a jug of milk in 12 channel surround sound)?
If you would prefer to have a private conversation, you can open the storage compartment between the seats, take the handset out, and hold it to your ear as you would with a conventional telephone. When you do this, the other occupants of the car don’t hear the whole conversation.
This fixed phone uses a Subscriber Identity Module (SIM) card to store all the owner specific information, as does every other GSM phone in the world. In Europe, most telephone service providers will issue you with a duplicate SIM card (for the same telephone number) to use in your fixed in-car phone. In practice, this means you can have the newest, super-dooper fashionable phone in your pocket, for use when you are outside the car, and a fixed phone in the car, for use when you are driving, and both will have the same phone number. The only restriction is that you can’t use both devices at the same time.
*1 - Phaeton Phone with Fixed Handset*
This configuration has never been offered in NAR. The controller only supports the ROW frequencies 900 and 1800, for that reason, it would be unsuitable for retrofit in North America.
*Fixed Handset Installation - 5 seater Phaeton*








*Fixed Handset Installation - 4 seater Phaeton*
_This is the same technology as the fixed handset installation in the 5 seater, shown above. The only difference is adaptation to the armrest of the 4 seater._








































*2 - Phaeton with Removable Handset - no privacy feature*
The second Phaeton phone configuration that has been offered – both in NAR and in Europe – consists of a cradle in which you insert your phone. The phone must be a certain Nokia series model. Once the phone is inserted into this cradle, you have full control over all functions from the steering wheel and infotainment systems, same as described above. The only shortcoming of this system is that you don’t have a way of communicating in privacy, using the handset. If you lift the handset out of the cradle, it would probably work on its own just fine if you could get it out of the car (i.e. you were waiting in a parking lot somewhere), but it won’t work too well within the cabin of the car, because by lifting it out of the cradle, you are disconnecting it from the external antenna on the rear window of the Phaeton.
This configuration does not use Bluetooth technology, because there is no need for it. The phone is physically connected to the car.
*Phaeton with removable handset*
Offered in ROW and NAR








































*Phone Control Buttons on Steering Wheel (answer / mute)*








*3 - Phaeton with Removable Handset - with privacy feature*
The third OEM configuration available for the Phaeton is exactly the same as the above mentioned second configuration, except that it adds a second ‘dumb handset’ in a second cradle that can be picked up by the driver to conduct private conversations. The second handset is ‘dumb’ in the sense that it is nothing more than a microphone and a speaker. All the telephony functions are still handled by the combination of the Nokia handset that you have plugged into the car, and the telephone controller that is installed out of sight in the rear area of the car.
The dumb handset communicates with the phone controller using Bluetooth communication. It’s exactly the same idea as a Bluetooth headset that you can hook over your ear, except that it is in handset form, not headset form. It has exactly the same capabilities as a headset, meaning, none at all other than a microphone and speaker.
*Bluetooth enabled REMOVABLE handset installation in 5 seater*
_The phone itself is not shown in these pictures, but it is the same phone as is used in the photos above._
















*The same configuration is also available for the 4 seat Phaeton*








*'Privacy' Handset*
If you want to carry on the conversation in private (rather than through the car microphone and speakers), you pick up this little secondary handset and use it.








*Part Number of Privacy Handset*








*OnStar Integration*
In North America, 2004 and 2005 Phaetons were equipped with OnStar Telematics as standard equipment. In order to prevent conflicts between the OnStar system and the GSM cell telephone, a ‘crossover controller’ was incorporated into NAR Phaetons that were equipped with cell phone preparation. This controller is – basically – a switch that connects whichever communication system is activated by the driver to the car audio system, and it arbitrates in case of conflict between the two systems – for example, an incoming call on one system when the other system is in use.
*Components used in NAR Phaetons with Cell Phone Preparation*








*Bluetooth Handsfree Protocol*
Some car manufacturers offer very limited integration of a cellular telephone into the car audio system by way of Bluetooth Handsfree Protocol. Normally, the extent of the integration is limited to the car serving as a microphone, a speaker, and support for the SEND (initiate call) and END (hang up call) functions. There is no display of phone lists on any of the car’s electronics, nor do you get caller ID in the car instrument panel.
In effect, what you are getting is this: Instead of a lightweight, over the ear headset that uses Bluetooth Handsfree Protocol to communicate with your cellular phone (of any specification, any brand, and any network technology, as long as it supports BHP), you are getting a two-ton handsfree device – your car audio system.
The Motorola IHP 1000 handsfree system that is now being offered by Volkswagen of America for all VW products except those with OnStar is a perfect example of BHP. The microphone is clipped to the sun visor, the IHP 1000 connects to the car audio system (the speakers) via a DIN spec connector on the back of the radio (all VW products use DIN spec radio connectors), and voila: You can now answer calls, mute the microphone, talk, listen, and hang up without touching your phone. There is a small control panel, about the size of a large postage stamp, that sticks onto the dashboard and you control your phone through this. The only involvement that the car has is provision of the speakers, and automatic muting of the entertainment audio when the cell phone is activated. These two capabilities have been built into every VW produced since about 1999, because they are part of the DIN specification for the audio connectors on the car radio – or, the infotainment system, in the case of a Phaeton.
The extent of the capabilities of the IHF 1000 are determined by the phone being used, not by the car. I don't know whether or not this device works with phones made by manufacturers other than Motorola. You can read Motorola's brochure about it here: Motorola IHF 1000.
*Motorola IHF 1000 Control Panel*








*SIM Access Profile*
Some of us have heard about in-car systems that are very sophisticated – the phone stays in your pocket, but the car automatically recognizes the phone, downloads the phone list from it, displays the phone list on the car infotainment screen, supports caller ID, supports voice activated dialing, and so forth. These systems use a newer and far more advanced communication protocol called SIM Access Protocol. The car communicates with the phone using Bluetooth, and then polls the SIM card in the phone for all sorts of data. When you make a call, the car uses its own built-in phone transmitter and receiver, but registers with the telephone service provider as the SIM card that is in your phone, not as a unique and different communications device.
Obviously, this has to be GSM based, because only GSM phones have SIM cards. Volkswagen supports this technology on the new Passats that are sold in Europe. You can read more about it here: 2005 Passat with Bluetooth SIM Access Profile. I suspect that the 2007 Phaeton will also support this newest and most advanced communications protocol.
From a car manufacturer’s point of view, it is a no-brainer to provide SIM Access Profile support in all cars that are sold in Europe or ROW. 100% of the customers use GSM as their telephone standard, and 900/1800 MHz are the frequencies used. Whether or not this option will be offered in North America is another question. Perhaps 30% of customers use GSM, which means that the other 70% would be forced to change service providers, and the manufacturer would need to change the car electronics a bit to support the North American GSM frequency of 1900 MHz. 
*What about retrofitting Phaetons with OEM phone capability?*
VW had offered the single cradle and dual cradle GSM phone preparation options on the Phaeton in North America. Does it make sense to try and retrofit these capabilities to Phaetons that were not built with them?
The answer is no, but not for reasons you might expect. The single biggest problem is that Nokia has stopped producing the 1900 MHz handset that fits in the Phaeton. In Europe, you can buy a whole range of VW compatible handsets that operate on 900/1800, but those frequencies don’t work in NAR.
*What about retrofitting Phaetons with the Motorola IHF 1000?*
This can be done, but the IHF 1000 and the OnStar system cannot co-exist, because they both use the same DIN interface to the Phaeton audio system. This explains why some of you have heard that the 2006 Phaeton – which does not have OnStar installed – can be fitted with the IHF 1000, but the 2005 and 2004 models cannot.
Well, then, what about just unplugging the OnStar system? In theory, there is no reason to prevent you from retrofitting an IHF 1000 – or any other aftermarket system that provides Bluetooth Handsfree Protocol support – to a 2004 or 2005 Phaeton if you just unplug the OnStar system. I say ‘in theory’ because I have not done the research to see if any coding changes, etc. would be needed. Volkswagen of America will not discuss the possibility of unplugging OnStar, either because of liability concerns, or perhaps because that would contravene whatever agreements that VW of A has with OnStar.
I hope all this gives you a better overview of telephony options available in the Phaeton.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 12:59 AM 2-3-2008_


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## starcar (Jul 9, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I carry my little cell phone in my door pocket, so this is just a 'tourist' thread for me.
But I want to say you're absolutely amazing! The energy and information you bring to this forum are phenomenal. 
Thank you, and Merry Christmas! (or in these P.C. times, "Merry Whatever You Celebrate!)








Louis


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (starcar)*

Hi Louis:
Thanks for your kind words. I get more than my money's worth of 'play value' from my Phaeton... It is tons of fun to take it apart, the VW people in Dresden gives us fantastic customer support, and the car is pretty nice to drive, too.
Someday, I'll go back to driving a Golf TDI, but for the time being, the Phaeton that I have is all I need for a hobby.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Excellent Job, Michael
At one time you covered the adaption of the Parrot system into the Phaeton with ON Star that used the On Star Microphone and it played thru the onboard speaker system using the OnStar interrupt. If I remember it was done in Florida. Could you bring us up to date on that, maybe a wiring diagram or a place to buy the adaption without having to travel there. It would be grand to not rave to remove the infortainment cent to do it, maybe connections at the onstar by the rear view mirror.
Thanks DON


_Modified by GripperDon at 12:08 PM 12-11-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
I have not done any work at all related to the audio system of the car, or enabling or retrofitting other consumer electronics in the Phaeton. Other forum members have done quite a few different projects, all of which are listed in the forum table of contents. Below is a series of links that will take you to those discussions.
Michael
....*Audio, Phone, Electronics retrofits*
Retrofitting a Cell Phone
....- Phone Holder Insert for Center Console (5 seater only)
Motorola Bluetooth IHF 1000 (VW approved cell phone interface kit)
Retrofitting a DVD Entertainment System
Retrofit iPod, XM Radio, or Sirius Radio Installation (includes wiring diagrams for phone retrofits)
....How to add an aftermarket XM radio or cell phone
....- integrating video display into the Phaeton infotainment system
....- integrating consumer electronics into the Phaeton sound system
....- iPod integration by way of FM modulation
....- iPod integration by way of 'Ice-Link' adapter
....- Sirius or XM radio antenna installation
....- OEM provision of USB memory stick access in VW Products


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (GripperDon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GripperDon* »_...It would be grand to not to have to remove the infotainment center (J523) to do it, maybe connections at the OnStar by the rear view mirror.

Wishful thinking. Any kind of integration of a phone will have to be done at the back of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head, because that is where the DIN connectors are. Some entertainment audio retrofits can be accomplished at the connector to the CD player that is in the glove compartment.
There are no real connections of any kind related to the OnStar system at the front cabin roof where the OnStar control buttons are. There are just three wires - one for each button - and another wire to provide a signal to the green light. All the other wires related to OnStar are under the hatshelf, as illustrated in the photo of the telephone and OnStar controllers in the first post in this thread.
I suspect that if a Phaeton owner is willing to give up the OnStar, all he or she would need to do is slide out the Infotainment Control Head (J523) and connect into the DIN connectors there, following the same specifications that would be used for a Golf, Jetta, Passat, Mercedes, Trabbant, or any other German car.
We have some documentation here on the forum about how to remove the J523. It is not a difficult task, but you need to be patient and know the tricks. Have a look at this post: J523 Removal for removal instructions, and this post: Replacement of the J523 Front Information Display and Control Head  for tips that make re-installation easier.
Michael


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## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thank you for the very nice post. In your post, you mention that the Nokia telephones are no longer available... (Nokia 6310/6340/6360)
These phones are readily available, and they are quite inexpensive. There are many available on eBay - both new and used.
If you have the time and the information, it would be nice to see exactly what else is required for an OEM telephone retrofit for the North American Region marketplace (1900 MHz GSM). I would think that a number of people on the forum would be interested in performing this retrofit - I know I would.
Thanks again for all your work gathering information and providing very high quality posts.
Douglas

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
*What about retrofitting Phaetons with OEM phone capability?*
VW had offered the single cradle and dual cradle GSM phone preparation options on the Phaeton in North America. Does it make sense to try and retrofit these capabilities to Phaetons that were not built with them?
The answer is no, but not for reasons you might expect. The single biggest problem is that Nokia has stopped producing the 1900 MHz handset that fits in the Phaeton. In Europe, you can buy a whole range of VW compatible handsets that operate on 900/1800, but those frequencies don’t work in NAR.




_Modified by copernicus0001 at 7:02 AM 12-12-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (copernicus0001)*

Just a wee tad of further information, for the record:
The controller part number for the fixed phone installation with the curly cord (Europe only) is 3D0 035 704.
The controller part number for the removable Nokia phone is 3W0 035 729 C (that controller part number was taken from three different European Phaetons). The same configuration in a Canadian spec Bentley Continental used 3W0 035 729 K, and a 2005 Canadian spec Phaeton used 3D0 035 729 with no letter suffix shown on the diagnostic scan.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Attached, in Adobe Acrobat PDF format, is a two page brochure that describes the Motorola IHF 1000 handsfree car kit.
This kit is of particular interest to us as Phaeton owners because it forms the basis of the handsfree retrofit kit that Volkswagen will be making available for all VW products (excepting those that have OnStar). Volkswagen is - as I understand it - planning to customize this kit for installation in VW products by supplying it with a DIN (German Industrial Norm) connector to suit either a single DIN or double DIN format OEM VW radio.
This kit uses the Bluetooth Handsfree Protocol (described above) to provide handsfree use of mobile phones that support this protocol, regardless of the brand of phone. It does NOT fully integrate the phone into the car electronics - in fact, the contribution that the car makes is limited to providing 12 volt power for the device, and (if the appropriate VW wiring harness is used) muting the radio and making the existing car audio speakers available to provide phone audio.
Nevertheless, it may be worth considering for folks who want wireless handsfree support of their telephone. Possible problems that need to be considered include the lack of any support for an external phone antenna. This may not be a problem in a Golf or Jetta, but it might be a problem in a Phaeton that has metallic glass. Also, unless the kit is installed in the original Motorola configuration only (meaning, using the supplied external microphone and external speaker), it cannot be used together with the OnStar system.
Michael


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Great write up, again, it took a while to digest it all. I know you personally don't have a lot of interest in this, so thanks for looking it to it. One question, have you looked at the Parrot CK3100? I think Jim as put a few in T-regs. I believe they are used a lot in France and are NA compatible. It appears to have more options than the IHF 1000. This still won't allow functions through the J523 though.








http://store.palm.com/product/...04812
Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (W126C)*

Hi Brent:
I haven't looked into any aftermarket kits, mostly because my own particular area of interest is retrofits that are 100% OEM in every respect.
I spoke to the engineering staff in Dresden a few weeks ago, to find out what they thought of the idea of putting together a kit to retrofit NAR Phaetons with the 'cell phone prep' package if the cars left Dresden without this option included. They didn't think it was possible, however, I think it might be possible, and I intend to give it a try - not because I want a phone (I don't), but just because I think it would be an interesting mod to do. Douglas provided some additional incentive earlier this week when he noted that we could get the required Nokia phone from eBay, even though Nokia no longer distributes the phone in NAR.
So, as soon as I get the time and I can collect all the parts, I will attempt to retrofit the OEM spec cell phone prep option. I haven't done a whole lot of work on it yet, though. There is a Phaeton owner in my community who has cell phone prep, but has no interest in using it, so, I am considering offering to swap his cell phone prep hardware for a complete start button installation. This would be the easiest way to determine how to retrofit it - just to move an existing installation from one Phaeton to another.
Michael


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## gezuvor (Mar 13, 1999)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (starcar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *starcar* »_But I want to say you're absolutely amazing! The energy and information you bring to this forum are phenomenal.

Ditto. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for Michael!


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (gezuvor)*

Egad, what on earth (Earth) did people do before someone decided that phones belong in cars??
1) Probably enjoyed driving more.
2) Had far fewer wrecks.
3) Had more time to talk to fellow passengers.
4) Realized that more really important stuff can be absorbed at home whilst reading a good book.


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## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

One more bit of information on the European curly cord phone. It can be unplugged from the front armrest and pluged in to the back of the console for use by rear passengers though I cannot imagine why as it does not give much extra privacy. Though I have found to my cost that the Infotainment system does not always read SMS text messages and there are functions such as messaging that are better done using the phone.
William


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Bluetooth*

Last night, I went out to my Phaeton with my bluetooth phone on in my pocket, and, lo and behold, shortly after I drove off, the car picks up an incoming call, dispalys the caller ID and provides a crystal clear connection! Then I notice that I have my address book available and full bluetooth functions! How wonderful. 
Then I woke up! My Phaeton is still in the shop, but it was a "sweet" dream.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Bluetooth (Gobuster)*

LOL!!!
Okay, Rob, you actually had me going for a minute! I was going to say "How wonderful you have the Phaeton back already" and then I continued to read.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Jack Orr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jack Orr* »_Egad, what on earth (Earth) did people do before someone decided that phones belong in cars?

Hello Jack:
I know how you feel. I am lucky that I have the kind of job that does not require me to stay in constant touch with others by phone. There are a lot of folks out in the workforce now who have less freedom than a prisoner on a chain gang - the only difference is that instead of being constantly tethered by a chain, they are constantly tethered by the need to be available by phone.
Michael


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Michael, you're right, but one thing really bugs me. 
In my business life, I had authority to bind liability coverage on aircraft up to $100,000,000. That's one hundred million. That's a bunch.
I don't think my business ever suffered because I didn't have a car phone.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Jack Orr)*

Agreed, Jack, but that was a simpler time - no-one else had mobile phones either.
Michael


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## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Jack Orr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jack Orr* »_Michael, you're right, but one thing really bugs me. 
In my business life, I had authority to bind liability coverage on aircraft up to $100,000,000. That's one hundred million. That's a bunch.
I don't think my business ever suffered because I didn't have a car phone.

I bet you had a secretary, though. And I bet the people with whom you dealt had office personnel. Those days are long gone. Nobody is ever satisfied talking to anyone's secretary any more; they want to talk to _you_, and if you are not available, the next phone number and fellow on the list almost certainly will be. 
It's a real shame, just like it's a shame that people don't have decent dinner parties any more because they are too busy force-feeding Baby Einstein to their children


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Four Speed Fox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Four Speed Fox* »_I bet you had a secretary, though...

I remember those, though I have to admit they have been extinct for so long I had forgotten about them until you mentioned it.
OK, here's a better idea: Forget the phone, how about a new thread entitled "Retrofitting a Secretary to a Phaeton"?
Michael


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I remember those, though I have to admit they have been extinct for so long I had forgotten about them until you mentioned it.
OK, here's a better idea: Forget the phone, how about a new thread entitled "Retrofitting a Secretary to a Phaeton"?
Michael

Michael,
I can't wait to see the step by step directions you post for that one!
~PC


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PhaetonChix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhaetonChix* »_I can't wait to see the step by step directions you post for that one!









At least there would be more options from which to choose than the current cell phone selection. 


_Modified by chrisj428 at 6:03 PM 12-14-2005_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Jack Orr)*

I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out where to hide my _bag phone_! Should I install the bag in the glove box and let the wire hang out across the console??








Seriously, I am about to install a cell-phone *signal jammer* in the attic of my dental facility to stop these dang things from working. ( I might even try to figure out a way to make it portable. Then I don't have to hear them in restaurants, church, movies, concerts, etc. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )!!!!. Despite the fact that I have a sign in the waiting room that says "Please turn off phones in treatment rooms", they still insist on answering calls while I am in the middle of work







.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_I'm really having a hard time trying to figure out where to hide my _bag phone_! Should I install the bag in the glove box and let the wire hang out across the console??









Well - if there is enough space to jam it into the little container between the two front passenger seats, you could do that, and it would look OEM...









_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Seriously, I am about to install a cell-phone *signal jammer* in the attic of my dental facility to stop these dang things from working. ( I might even try to figure out a way to make it portable. Then I don't have to hear them in restaurants, church, movies, concerts, etc. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )!!!!. Despite the fact that I have a sign in the waiting room that says "Please turn off phones in treatment rooms", they still insist on answering calls while I am in the middle of work







.

Wow - that is unspeakable rudeness on the part of the cell phone owners. Maybe you could offer to store the cell phones under the lead X-ray blanket while the patients are in the operatory.
Michael.


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Seriously, I am about to install a cell-phone *signal jammer* in the attic of my dental facility to stop these dang things from working. ( I might even try to figure out a way to make it portable. Then I don't have to hear them in restaurants, church, movies, concerts, etc. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )!!!!. Despite the fact that I have a sign in the waiting room that says "Please turn off phones in treatment rooms", they still insist on answering calls while I am in the middle of work







.

David, good to here you're back. Uh, wait a minute, I got a call. Sorry one of the kids. Anyway I know what you're talking about, *No, I'm talking with someone else, I'll call back later.* Sorry, my mother-in-law. Anyway, I know what you're talking about, _George, I'm sure Rummie will stay around after the elections, Look I'll call back, later. OK._ Man, I can't get anything done here. Anyway, what where we talking about? I have to go now. I'll get back with you later. I do have your number, right?
Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (W126C)*

Priceless.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Well, like the title says, "This is more than you ever wanted to know about phones in Phaetons"!!


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## iluvpcs (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

PanEuropean, you rock.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Four Speed Fox)*

Yep, Michael. I had a secretary and probably the best one who ever lived, until she retired. That woman took dictation faster than I could talk, had the letter typed and on my desk before I turned around. And it was perfect, spelling and all. (Remember- spell checkers weren't invented yet). After Bonnie retired, the quality went down thru the years. Maybe that's why the idea of private secretaries went away- the 'help' available wasn't any good. But, until I retired in 1992- I still insisted on my secretary knowing shorthand.
Those were good ol' days, for sure.
And, the Phaeton hadn't been invented yet. Which made for good days of a different kind.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Jack Orr)*

Just a follow-up on the comments made earlier in this post about aftermarket (retrofit) phone kits that VW of America is selling - it is most interesting to note that in the current (Fall/Winter 2005) issue of Volkswagen Driver magazine, there are two paid advertisements for retrofit handsfree kits, one from Motorola and one from Nokia. This is the first time I have ever seen paid advertisements appearing in Driver magazine.
The Motorola advertisement is on the inside front cover, and the Nokia advertisement is on page 19. You can pick up a free copy of Driver magazine from any North American VW dealer, if you have not already received one in the mail as a result of being a VW owner.
The Motorola handsfree system is incompatible with Phaetons that are equipped with OnStar for reasons that have already been explained above - both the OnStar and the Motorola handsfree system need exclusive use of the 'telephone signal input' pins on the Phaeton sound system. This means you have an either/or decision to make. VW of America is not advocating removal of the OnStar system, and will not discuss that topic 'on the record', however, my guess is that the Motorola system would work just fine in a Phaeton if the owner was willing to unplug the OnStar system. VW does state that the Motorola system will work just fine in model year 2006 Phaetons - which are identical to the 2004 and 2005 models, except that the 2006 Phaetons do not come with OnStar installed.
I have no further information about the Nokia system. My guess is that it functions pretty much the same as the Motorola system. The main page for Nokia Car Kit information is www.nokiausa.com/carkits, and the page with specific information about the kit shown in the Driver magazine advertisement is Nokia CK-7W Advanced Car Kit.
If anyone does go ahead with an install of either of these car kits, please come back and tell us all about it. Pictures are always appreciated, I can host them for you if you are not sure how to post pictures.
Michael
*Motorola Advertisement*








*Nokia Advertisement*


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## mkerr (Dec 12, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

oops. Looks like I just found my answer to the bluetooth bump question I just posted. (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2324062) 

has anyone tried one of these kits yet? I find little value in the onstar system and am more interesting in getting real bluetooth integration than anything else. Phone, IPod, etc. etc. all can fit through that spigot, if the right solution is out there.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (mkerr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkerr* »_...am more interesting in getting real bluetooth integration than anything else. Phone, IPod, etc. etc. all can fit through that spigot, if the right solution is out there.

As discussed in some detail in the original post I made at the top of this thread, there are various levels of 'Bluetooth Integration'.
Both the two-handset system that VW offers as a factory installed option on the Phaeton and the Motorola and Nokia aftermarket systems only support the least sophisticated level of integration, which is _Bluetooth Handsfree Protocol_. In simplest terms, this does not much more than use the car's audio speakers as a form of hands-free headset.
The level of functionality that I think many people are looking for is that provided by _SIM Access Profile_. Bluetooth SIM Access Profile functionality allows the car to poll the Subscriber Information Module (SIM) card in a GSM specification phone, and thus provide a great many additional services, including (without limitation) display of the phone directory stored on the portable phone on the car display screens, use of a remote (slave) telephone transmitting and receiving module that is integrated into the car, etc., etc. That technology is currently offered in the new Passat - at least, in European markets, anyway. I think it might be a while before we see it available in the NAR market, either as an OEM fitment or via an aftermarket retrofit.
Here's a link to the Bluetooth Special Interest Group website, where you can find a bit more detail about the different levels of technology available for automotive use: Automotive use of Bluetooth technology.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note:* 
Related post with more specific discussion of which Nokia mobile phones work in a Phaeton (NAR or ROW) - Integrated cell phone question
The original post by Ron that prompted me to write the big essay above - Bluetooth?


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## emtempest (May 14, 2007)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Hi Folks
I am a new Phaeton owner. 2004 V8, with C&CW and upgraded stereo packages.
My MY04 was delivered to the dealership 10/2004 and not purchased titled until 4/2005. I have noticed that the Infotainment unit has the "phone" button on it, and when I toggle the wheel mounted selector one of the screens reads "telephone not available". There is no cradle and the car was not ordered with the cell phone prep option.
I have found that the nokia type cell phones that were used with the MY04 and MY05 are available on ebay. Do you know what it would take to add the factory cell phackage? I have read most of the discussion on this that would suggest that you might as well forget the factory cell phone for 04 MY but I think my car is more like a MY05. 
Not sure if the first owner added anything to the car but I noticed that the cell phone jack in the center console has had the wrap removed as if it was used.
I would prefer the factory version if possible? 
Any help for a newby like me would be appreciated.
Mark


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (emtempest)*

Hi Mark:
Welcome to the forum.
The short answer is that it is impractical to consider retrofitting the "cell phone prep" because of the difficulty involved in running wires. The cell phone prep, as installed North American Region (NAR) cars in Dresden, could in theory be retrofitted at a cost of about $1,500 in parts and about 25 hours labour. That's not really economical, and the amount of dis-assembly required is breathtaking - see the post listed in the Table of Contents about retrofitting a TV tuner to get an idea of the scope of work.
Right now, one of our most experienced forum members (Don in Scottsdale) is investigating a replacement of the original VW OnStar system with a Motorola IHF-1000 Bluetooth unit. I am going to mail him my Motorola IHF-1000 kit and an adapter cable that should "plug and play" in place of the OnStar. If Don gets it working to his satisfaction, then he will write up the full details. All in all, I think Bluetooth (handsfree, not rSAP) is the most practical way to go.
Michael


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## emtempest (May 14, 2007)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Thanks alot for your quick reply. I am amazed at your wealth of knowldge on this car and willingness to help others. I will anxiously await Don's Onstar Retrofit.
My local VW dealer says that they have installed several Motorola Bluetooth systems in Phaetons and Touregs. Can you help me understand what the dealer may be suggesting Vs. what Don is working on?
Mark


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Is their a way to remap the wiring of the Onstar buttons with the Motorola kit? Is there a way to find a wreck GM car and remove the Onstar unit and replace it with the VW unit? Compatibility problem? Is there a way to do the basic configuration?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (rrussell)*

My responses are embedded in blue type.
Is their a way to remap the wiring of the Onstar buttons with the Motorola kit? No, this is impossible, out of the question. The three button control unit uses resistance switches, not independent SPST switches, thus, unless you built a controller to interpret the resistances and trigger the appropriate actions in the new telephony unit, the three button switch is useless for anything other than the OnStar controller that it was built for. The only solution for that three button switch is to either remove it and refit a lens cover from a 2006 NAR Phaeton (full width dome light lens cover), or just leave it in place and ignore it.
Is there a way to find a wreck GM car and remove the Onstar unit and replace it with the VW unit? I can't say for sure because I have not investigated this. But, my first guess is no, that would not work, because the telematics controller needs to co-operate across the Phaeton CAN bus with other controllers, and I doubt if the communications protocol or communications language used by GM would work in a VW car. It would be a bit like trying to put a hard drive from a Mac into a Windows computer
Michael.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

SInce GM indicates it is the responsibility of the car manufacturer to make the changes, I wonder if VW can ask On-Star/GM what changes would be needed to make the system digital, then pass that along to us to see if it is possible? Just a thought.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_SInce GM indicates it is the responsibility of the car manufacturer to make the changes, I wonder if VW can ask On-Star/GM what changes would be needed to make the system digital, then pass that along to us to see if it is possible? Just a thought.

Doubtful as there are GM cars which are not upgradeable to digital as well.


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## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (chrisj428)*

Wow...GM not providing a retrofit for their own cars and losing customers seems really strange. OH! This is GM. I guess that is not so strange for them.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (dzier)*

Well, David, most of them are retrofittable. Some are not.
On*Star FAQ


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (dzier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dzier* »_...I wonder if VW can ask On-Star/GM what changes would be needed...

David, we've been around this issue before in other discussion about OnStar. The basic facts are as follows:
- The liaison between GM and VW concerning OnStar was a shotgun marriage, and both partners were happy to get out of it.
- There are not sufficient VW products equipped with analog OnStar to make it commercially viable to manufacture a digital replacement controller.
- OnStar is going the way of the buggy whip, the 8 track cartridge, and the bag phone. Just about everyone who owns a VW with OnStar capability (Phaeton or Touareg) also has a cell phone by now. OEM Bluetooth handsfree or retrofit Bluetooth handsfree is eating OnStar's lunch, and OnStar knows it.
Bottom line is this: Asking for an upgrade of OnStar to digital is a bit like complaining to Microsoft that they did not include CompuServe software in Windows Vista. In other words, that train has left the station years ago...
Michael


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

OEMpl.us & Michael
Need the pix from this thread for my cell phone prep write-up.
Eric


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons (Fighterguy)*

Done


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Simple fix*

Looking at all threads, describing difficult Bluetooth retrofits, including Parrot etc., I am now using a solution which virtually offers all original functionality of my factory installed car phone system (the one with the wired Nokia handset). 
First I purchased SIM-only from my regular provider, which are pretty cheap when you choose a basic one. Next, I programmed my mostly dialed numbers in the SIM memory, using my regular phone and PC software. 
Next, I programmed the phone number of that SIM into my cell phone in the section "Forward when unreachable". 

Going into the car: 
I switch my Smartphone to "Flight Mode" (shuts off all RF transmissions) which is done in 5 seconds. Next, I activate the built-in car phone as usual. 

Going out: 
Switch off the Flight mode, get out of the car. 

All original functions are present. Number and name of the caller is recognized and displayed along with the name I programmed. Even SMS messages come through. Another advantage: as this method uses the car phone's own transmitter/receiver and car antenna, it provides a better RF receipt and transmission than with the Bluetooth solution. It saves battery life of the rather thirsty Galaxy as well.


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

This is what I think you've done, please tell me if I'm wrong. You now have two cell phones, the smart one you use outside the car and the dumb Nokia one you leave in the car. You've programmed the phonebook in the Nokia phone with the same names/numbers as the one's in your smart phone. When you get in the car, you program the smart phone to forward all calls to the Nokia phone and all the integrated displays look as if a call went to the Nokia phone directly. In the States this would require two phone numbers, one for each phone, since our rules allow only that. I believe in Europe you can have the same phone number for more than one phone. Not clear which setup you have. If the Nokia phone has its own number, then the calling plan for it could be the least expensive one possible, since it is used infrequently and, then, only as a dumb terminal. 

Aside from the possible extra cost and complications of having a second phone number, a simple solution.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

Fighterguy said:


> This is what I think you've done, please tell me if I'm wrong.


 I actually have two phone numbers. In the Netherlands, there is a relative large number of providers (5 for 16 M people) with a lot of different offers. The number I use for my Smartphone has a larger amount of "free" phone minutes, internet and I have my company e-mail on that one. The one for my car is a "SIM only", so you buy a SIM card with phone number and because I mostly receive calls, with a limited amount of "free phone minutes", which are only used when you actually initiate the call in the car. 
The caller ID of the hands-free car phone works as if the caller calls you on that number. Nobody knows that number, even myself can't tell if someone asked me. 

And yes, I indeed use call forwarding, which automatically activates when my regular number cannot be reached. And that is the case when I put my smartphone in "Flight mode". This is little hassle, as all it needs is to press the power button for more than 1 second, then a menu pops up with some choices, i.e. shut down, etc. One of them is flight mode. 
I occasionally drive cars with BT, with the main advantage that you only have to switch on BT transmission and do not have to turn on the built-in car phone. Downside is that you need to hook up a power wire to the smart phone and the reception - and thus the quality of the conversation - is not as good. 
The advantage of the no-BT solution is that you turn off all possible radio transmissions, including BT, GPS, GPRS, Wifi, 3G and all that. Nice to have them, but they are real power drainers, even when the phone is idle. Keeping the battery full is a constant concern and save energy. And helps to reduce CO2 emissions too.


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

*Duplicate SIM*



Fighterguy said:


> I believe in Europe you can have the same phone number for more than one phone.


 Fighterguy, this is a good idea and possible with Vodafone NL. I wanted to post the translation in English but to my surprise, Vodafone UK isn't offering this possibility. 
So here is my translation of a part of the description of the Duo card on the NL site: 

_You now have 2 phones with the same phone number. If both devices are in use, you can make calls with either of them. When somebody calls you, then one of the two phones will be ringing. When you switch off that device, calls will come in on the other device._ 

I guess that the same procedure applies as with the 2-number (two separate phone numbers) setup I use. Get in the car, flight mode on, car phone on, then fly your Phaeton. Out of the car, turn off the flight mode. Phone in the car switches of automatically... I think. 

You may want to ask your provider whether they can offer this. I don't know why you can get it in NL and not in UK or USA. Perhaps it is due to overcommitment of the NL government to EU competition guidelines, unlike UK, who virtually detest EU. Or it must be because we need to make so many phone calls to our spouses, telling them we are late as we wind up travelling 3 times longer than normal on our often overcrowded highways.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

_Below is a post that Don (JockMacMad) posted to another thread, I have copied his post here because I think it is best to keep all the OEM phone-related questions here on this thread. Michael_ 

Yeah I am trying to locate the part number. The funny thing is it's not on the factory build sheet for my car but the option codes are. Is there a way to cross correlate the option to a part number or are they separate as the part numbers change as new versions of the kit are released but the option codes stay the same? 

Also looking at the online parts drawings there seems to be a holder that fits into the arm on the fitting in the arm and then the module plugs in. 

If anyone has this part:- 



> Address 77: Telephone
> Protocol: KWP2000
> Part No: 3W7 035 385 H
> Component: UHV Premium rSAP 0037
> ...


 in their car could they take a picture in the armrest so I can see what it looks like as right now I am struggling to understand what is missing i.e. 1 part or two. 

Don


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Below is a picture of the rSAP phone 'pairing terminal' (my name for it, I don't know what the correct name is). This part is used by the driver to pair up a rSAP phone with a rSAP phone controller. It is possible that this might be the missing part that Don is searching for. This particular photo is quite old (from 2007), it is possible that this part may have changed or been upgraded since then. 

This option was only offered in Europe, and only for MY 2006 and later. 

Michael 

*rSAP Pairing Terminal*


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## JockMacMad (May 18, 2011)

*Yup*

Yes indeed the unit on the left is exactly like the one in the manual I have or rather have not but should have.... 

As mine is a 2007 this photo should be a perfect match. 

I also do not have the cradle on the right but rather two small holders which I have seen in another image somewhere on here


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Don: 

OK, it sounds like you have the controller present in the avionics rack at the back of the car (photos of that are on the first page of this thread), but someone has removed the 'pairing terminal' from the box between the two front seats. 

There are various configurations of the additional parts (i.e. the privacy handset on the right), including no additional parts at all other than the pairing terminal. 

If you visit your VW dealership parts department and provide them with your VIN, they will be able to look up your car by serial number and advise you exactly what the part number of the 'pairing terminal' is. I suggest you be quite cautious if you choose to procure one - there may be different versions that look the same from the outside but, perhaps, have different PNs. 

Once you get the PN figured out and determine what the proper name for the 'pairing terminal' is, eBay.de might be a low-cost source. 

Michael


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> If you visit your VW dealership parts department and provide them with your VIN, they will be able to look up your car by serial number and advise you exactly what the part number of the 'pairing terminal' is. I suggest you be quite cautious if you choose to procure one - there may be different versions that look the same from the outside but, perhaps, have different PNs.


 Michael's right. But to give you a head start, the part number for "display unit and control panel with 'touchscreen' for vehicles with 3 rear seats" (=the gadget you are looking for) is 3D0 035 950. This is valid for MY2007. There is a different version (3D1 035 950) which is the "narrow" version for 4-seater handrests. I have seen this part for sale a few times in the last few months in ebay.de. They seem to go for less than 100 euros... It plugs straight in to the socket you've got in the console. 

Then, the privacy handset: the craddle can be detached same way as the touch screen terminal. It has part # 3D0 035 705 A. The important thing here is, that it is not the same part as the one without the last "A". The latter is probably more common (and looks identical to A-type) as it is used for the telephone preparation, where you tuck in a Nokia phone. You need the A-type which is for the privacy bluetooth handset. 

Good luck! This is one of the retrofits I've been thinking of a long time... It's just that my current phone no longer supports rSAP. 

Jouko


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## NdmNdm (Sep 14, 2011)

*Rsap connection problem*

What a fantatsic forum, the most informative I have ever come across.

I have a 2008 Phaeton with a factory fit bluetooth connection. I had this set up and working well with my Blackberry Bold.

The problem I have started after a weekend when I did not use the car. All of a sudden the phone will not connect automatically the way it used to as soon as I got in and switched on the ignition. It now need sto be manually connected each time. I have checked my phone settings, nothing changed and set up the blurtooth connection again and still no joy.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Based on my experience with Blackberry Bolds, I am going to guess that the problem originated in the Blackberry, not with the Phaeton.

Blackberry device software updates have a habit of messing up settings that were working perfectly well before. 

Perhaps take a second look at how the BB is set up - in particular, whether or not it considers the Phaeton to be a "trusted device". Or, simply delete the Phaeton from the Blackberry and then add it again - this will allow you to set the trust level for the Phaeton more easily (in other words, it's easier to delete a device from the BB and then add it again than it is to modify settings for an existing device).

Michael


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## NdmNdm (Sep 14, 2011)

Michael, thanks for your quick response. I have checked the Bold and it has the car as a trusted device. I have also deleted and set up again several times. Guess I will just have to accept things as they are. I did think it was the Bold and can't see any other settings that may be incorrect.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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## geoffrey_fake (Dec 2, 2011)

anyone knows if there is an update for the rSAP ? 

I have a pheaton 2008 with the rSAP system, and it fails quite a lot with new phones, only my blackberry still one of them working properly.

Samsung Galaxy Note 2 has rSAP but I cannot connect properly with the car, the pair fails in a random way and impossible to pair both completley.

It is not possible only to swicth ON the Bleutooth and not use the rSAP?

how can I get my phone working with the car? 

Cheers 

Geo


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## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

*Phone for 5 seater W12 2003 european model*

Hello forum,

This is an truly amazing site with such amount of great information, thanks to all of you that contributes. It makes it possible for small successful DIY projects without spending expensive time at the dealer. 

I have just bought a used 2003 Phaeton from Germany, listed with telephone installed. However, there are just a few hints about any phone installation in the car;
- the required buttons on the steering wheel
- a data/telephone contact in the bottom of the tray between the front seats
- and no phone (but I believe I can find an old Nokia as described in the user manual)

Is it just a matter of finding an old Nokia with a cable that fits the data/telephone contact in the tray and all well? There are no indications of any other contacts related to any phone. 

I have read all about the phone, and infotainment updates on the forum with great interest, but for know I am only interested in getting the original installation, if any, to work.

Greatful for any answer

Best regards

Per M,
Norway


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Per,

Welcome, I hope you enjoy the car as much as I do!

You can check for option code 9ZP (permanent phone installation) on the sticker inside the User's Handbook and inside the trunk if there's any doubt. A scan will show the presence of the Nokia phone transceiver, which is mounted in the shelf compartment in the trunk.

As you say, the Nokia 6090 handsets are available used for less than €100. You do need one to hold the Service Provider's SIM card. The last one I bought had a slightly damaged cable at the point where it joins the plug, so any bargains listed for sale may have that defect. It is easily fixed with a new plug, or in my case I moulded some rubber compound into the break in the outer insulation which secured it effectively. A stolen one will probably have the serial number erased on the back plate and be too cheap.

I have attached a link to the User Manual for the generic Nokia 6090 if it of interest. The one in the Phaeton is usually marked 'Volkswagen' in large silver letters, although used ones are more commonly labeled 'Audi'.

Chris


6090_usersguide_en.pdf


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## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

Chris,

thanks for your quick response. Hopefully my P has the required installation so it is just a matter of connection the phone. 

BTW, just bought the car and drove it through some countries in Europe. What a delight to drive and operate, a perfect autobahn killer. And for the price the used cars are selling it is just unbelievable what you get for the money.

Drive safely

Best regards

PerM


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## kris11 (May 15, 2012)

geoffrey_fake said:


> anyone knows if there is an update for the rSAP ?
> 
> I have a pheaton 2008 with the rSAP system, and it fails quite a lot with new phones, only my blackberry still one of them working properly.
> 
> ...


Geo I have a Phaeton 2009. I have had it working really well with rsap with Samsung Galaxy Note 1. Then I took it to the dealer and asked them if they could upgrade/fix it to work with iphone. They had the car in for a day, and then let me know it couldn't be upgraded to work with iphone. After this my samsung Note is not working with the Phaeton blutooth rsap system. It connects but is disconnected after about 30s. I have tried to delete all setting on the phone and in the car system and pair them again from the start. Doesn't help... Very frustrating. Anyone any ideas?


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## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

*Nokia 6090 installation*

Gents,

finally ready for the Nokia 6090 telephone hand set test on my P. However, nothing happens when connecting the Nokia handset to the "telephone" contact in the tray between the seats. The Nokia handset is totally dead, but the infotainment ask for a SIM card. When using the option for SOS on the infotainment I am able to get in contact to a Spanish speaking answering machine. Thats OK since I am in Spain, and it shows that there is a telephone installed in the car. When the handset is disconnected from the contact I get a message on the infotainment saying no phone is found. Once the hand set is connected the infotainment asks for a SIM card to be inserted, but the handset is dead (or dark)

The handset was given to me by a dealer that had tested the handset and it was working. 

Any suggestions? Anbody that know anything about the signals supposed to be found in the contact in the tray between the seats? I belive there may be a cable issue somewhere.

Best regards

Per M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Per,

I just went and examined my phone system against two different handsets to check its responses.



When the phone handset is not plugged in, the central display says 'Telephone Unavailable'.
I insert my SIM card into the slot in the handset.
When the handset containing the SIM card is first plugged in to the socket between the seats, the central display still says 'Telephone Unavailable'.
When the handset ON button is pressed, the handset shows nothing on its LCD display, then after a minute a very dim LCD display appears as if it requires to charge its internal battery. It then starts to transmit data to the Nokia box in the boot.
After a delay, the central display asks for a PIN number, then in my case decides no PIN is required, and automatically starts to slowly load the telephone book (contacts list) from the SIM card in the handset into the Nokia boot-mount's memory.When the contacts list is finished loading the phone is ready for use. The handset LCD is very dim, but usually after a while it suddenly becomes sharp. Of course, in normal use I do not need to look at it.

It sounds to me as if your handset is working OK but the SIM card is faulty or not registering properly with your phone service provider. Emergency calls are available, but not regular paid-for calls.

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Here's a photo showing the dim handset display when it is first plugged in and switched on. It actually says 'Vodafone'.

Chris


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## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

*Nokia 6090 installation*

Chris

Thanks for your tip on the procedure for the 6090 handset. It seems like the car is telling us that it is a true gentlemen car so please do not rush things...

I used your procedure, but with only "half" success. The handset is clearly doing something because it is getting warm, but no activity in the handsets window. The infotainment window states "the insert SIM".

My SIM card is working in my Sony Ericsson Smartphone. The SIM card is issued in Norway and the car is in Spain. Could this have an impact? The handset was tested by my supplier and it was working (in Norway). Maybe the flight down to Spain and the heat here just was to much for it.

Best regards

PerM


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## Ardenol (Oct 26, 2012)

Per,

Have you looked into compatibility with the telephone network you are trying to connect to?

The Nokia 6090 series is quite old/basic and I believe is only capable of working with phone networks on the GSM 900Mhz band.

Ayan


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## tjua (Mar 31, 2013)

*Nokia 6090 phone*

Gents,

Thanks for your valueable input, it certainly takes some time to test the equipment related to the phone configuration of my 2003 ROW W12. Before I start to check cable connections from the box between the front seats I need to know if the phone only works when connected to the cradle. I have so far just pluged the handset directly into the contact in the bottom of the box. No cradle available

Bets regards
PerM


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

Hi Gents.
I have a MY07 with this phone installed.
Is there any programming to check if it does'nt seem to work?
http://familjenwik.com/vw/p_phone.JPG
Wiken 😊 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


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## bjoroy (Mar 2, 2016)

I have the same system in my 2006. Unfortunately I haven't found any newer phones working with the rSAP system, but you can take the unit on the left out and put in a SIM card instead. Works for me


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

bjoroy said:


> I have the same system in my 2006. Unfortunately I haven't found any newer phones working with the rSAP system, but you can take the unit on the left out and put in a SIM card instead. Works for me


Thanks for your answer bjoroy.
I can put a SIM card in my left unit, is that how you solved it?
Wiken 😊 

Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


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## entwisi (Feb 19, 2013)

I have a Blackberry Priv which apparently does support rsap but I don't have a phone in my car to test with... if anyone is near Knutsford or Accrington that wants to pop by with their car I'm happy to test it ( and if it does work seamlessly I could be interested in a retro fit to my car.

Ian


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## bjoroy (Mar 2, 2016)

gwiken65 said:


> Thanks for your answer bjoroy.
> I can put a SIM card in my left unit, is that how you solved it?
> Wiken 😊
> 
> Skickat från min D6603 via Tapatalk


Yes. I got a twin sim (tvillingabonnement, jeg ser du er fra Sverige) so basically two cards for one number. One in my regular phone and one in the car. Disabled SMS/MMS on the SIM for the car


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

I replaced my phone controller today and that solved the problem.
It took 10 minutes, no programming, just plug and play.
I have a Samsung Galaxy S8+ and it works great with rsap.

My problem now is that the phone only talks German, and my German is not good at all.

Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

bjoroy said:


> I have the same system in my 2006. Unfortunately I haven't found any newer phones working with the rSAP system, but you can take the unit on the left out and put in a SIM card instead. Works for me


Hi bjoroy.
Does your phone speak German only?
Wiken 

Skickat från min SM-G955F via Tapatalk


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