# (Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS??



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

EDIT: Let me start off by saying this post has become an incredible source of all sorts of good turbo install info (and it's subsequent "issues" that you encounter during the install). I'll keep these pics as long as I can (in their same address on my website) so that they never become bright red X's (that's the goal). If they do, contact me at ' [email protected] '. 

Guys,
I just want to make sure I don't do something (ie. bolt something up) in the "wrong" order.
IE. My first guess would be to mount the exh manny to the head first then put the turbo on???
What I'd like to get from you guys is any TIPS that you've found that make the process a bit easier...
Basically it's an ATP stage 2 (i/c) with a "killa" TO4E Turbo on my GTi VR6 MK3.
TIA, guys...
Later,


_Modified by nater at 12:57 PM 5-8-2004_


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

A "normal" sized picture of what I've got so far (I've already got the turbo - see my other thread with the super large pic!).








Later,


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## QuickA2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Just what ever you do dont screw it up


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (QuickA2)*


















Ok, so I guess it's obvious that I've got to clock this turbo so the it's pointing exactly 180deg from where it is, correct? 
And the blue cap on the top is actually the oil feed?
I want to make sure I've got the oil feed and the oil return correct...
My guess is that the oil return is indeed (in these pics) on the bottom (just beyond where you can see)?
And, both flanges look identical to me so how can I tell for sure?
And, the red circular caps are for what purpose??? There are two of them (one is pictured and the other is on the other side).

Later,


_Modified by nater at 5:30 PM 5-5-2004_


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## HIGH PSI (May 17, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Oil feed is indeed up. Oil return has a larger, rectangular hole, oil feed is smaller, round, and probably threaded.


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_ Ok, so I guess it's obvious that I've got to clock this turbo so the it's pointing exactly 180deg from where it is, correct? 
And the blue cap on the top is actually the oil feed?
I want to make sure I've got the oil feed and the oil return correct...
My guess is that the oil return is indeed (in these pics) on the bottom (just beyond where you can see)?
And, both flanges look identical to me so how can I tell for sure?
And, the red circular caps are for what purpose??? There are two of them (one is pictured and the other is on the other side).

Later,

_Modified by nater at 5:30 PM 5-5-2004_

clock the turbo 180*
top of the Turbo is for oil inlet
bottom is for outlet (don't forget the teflon tape)
red caps are for water cooling (optional), with very little work you can use your stock TB coolant lines.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (schrickedVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *schrickedVR6* »_
clock the turbo 180*
top of the Turbo is for oil inlet
bottom is for outlet (don't forget the teflon tape)
red caps are for water cooling (optional), with very little work you can use your stock TB coolant lines.

Thanks Highpsi...
Schrickedvr6...
I have clocked the turbo:
















Ok, so I can keep the water cooling plugged up for now? Or should I not run it unless it's water cooled?
As for the Tephlon tape...I've got ATP's hardware kit which has a lot of gaskets and stuff...one of them matches up the oil return on the bottom...my guess is that's what I need for it.
So far (with these pics), so good????
Will update with pics as I progress tonight...
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*









bolted up oil return. Figure if there's anything 'wrong' here let me know...
Thanks for the ongoing help, guys....

Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*









I just screwed in the brass oil feed line as the hardware kit had no "flange" as the oil return DID. I figure this is ok and doesn't need any particular "seal".
My supercharger oil feed/return was just threaded like this too...and had no particular seal on it either...
I assume it all looks good, eh?








Keep the help coming guys...I'm fairly mechanically inclined (installed cams, supercharger, etc...) but this is an entirely different ballgame.
Much appreciated!
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Please don't think I'm a retard but this pic shows how I *thought* the WG is supposed to be attached to the manifold. Please, if I did it backwards or something don't call me a wee-tod...

















Later,


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## bmxcorrado (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

keep the pics coming man, I looking into piecing together a turbo and want to see the general idea of whats behind it


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## Fox-N-It (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (bmxcorrado)*

Looks like the wastegate will dump into the block








Might need to rotate it 180.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (Fox-N-It)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fox-N-It* »_Looks like the wastegate will dump into the block








Might need to rotate it 180.
 
Are you sure? Only reason I ask is that when I rotated it 180degrees before it seemed to bump into the downpipe where it connects at the exhaust housing of the turbo...
Can someone help with this???

Later,


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

It doesn't bump. You have it facing the wrong way.
This pic might help. It's a bit hard to see the WG though


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (I am Jack's VR6)*

I think those studs would be better used on the wastegate than the oil return flange. You can just use some bolts on the oil return flange. 
Make sure the gaskets you got for the wastegate have "fire rings"... basically a metal ring in the center so they don't blow out. 
Definitely use some teflon tape on the threads of the oil feed line.


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (2kjettaguy)*

Where can I get some wastegate gaskets w/ the 'fire-rings'?
Just got a 38mm direct from Tial and the gaskets are do not contain metal as far as I can tell...
Awesome post Nater, you're doing 1/2 the work for me!


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## I am Jack's VR6 (Sep 18, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (GKONYA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GKONYA* »_Where can I get some wastegate gaskets w/ the 'fire-rings'?
Just got a 38mm direct from Tial and the gaskets are do not contain metal as far as I can tell...

I got mine from ATP.


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## FULLE LOADED (Jun 11, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (I am Jack's VR6)*

do they sell this gasket as kit that they sell with the bolt kit


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## HIGH PSI (May 17, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_
Definitely use some teflon tape on the threads of the oil feed line. 

*NO, NO, NO. DO NOT use teflon tape on an oil feed line*
Always use teflon paste/pipe dope. No pipe tape or silicone RTV. The oil passages and journal bearings in most turbos are rather small and a little sliver of tape or piece of silicone can plug them. Most of the time if you are careful you can get away with it, but it is not a risk worth taking in my opinion. I rebuild turbos at work and have seen more than one fail because of tape or silicone leading to oil starvation. Just my $.02


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (HIGH PSI)*

More pics...
wg fixed and rotated 180degrees. There's no 'easy' way to re-route that wg back into the exhaust or does it just go into the atmosphere? And, if so...does it make the car much louder???
Here's the updated pics:
























Keep the help coming guys!!!!









Later,


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

If you bought a turbo with a water jacket, then hook up the water lines.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_If you bought a turbo with a water jacket, then hook up the water lines. 


Take the line off the TB....








Wastegate dump: you'll need to make a pipe that 
goes to the ground or feeds back into the DP.
Most folks, like me, can't wait to get the turbo up and running
so we run a pipe, and end up leaving it that way....

Jeff


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_If you bought a turbo with a water jacket, then hook up the water lines. 

I did.
I'll use the lines going in and out of my TB, right?
Do you know where I can get the fittings which will allow me to hook these lines up?
And what really happens if I don't run it watercooled when it has that option? Is it really bad for the turbo???
And if I have the water hooked up does it mean I still need a turbo timer b/c doesn't the aux water pump just keep pumping to keep things cool anyway?
Or is it a matter of the oil just caking up inside the turbo???
Oh, by the way...I could really use a diagram of exactly how to plumb this setup (i/c) b/c I'm totally clueless. I've got the atp stage 2 plumbing and intercooler but it's all a big pile if isht right now







.
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

Take the line off the TB....








Wastegate dump: you'll need to make a pipe that 
goes to the ground or feeds back into the DP.
Most folks, like me, can't wait to get the turbo up and running
so we run a pipe, and end up leaving it that way....

Jeff


Jeff,
what happens if I just leave it to dump w/o a pipe? I mean, it's still dumping, just in a differnt part of the engine, right?
Later,


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## JettaGLXdriver (Oct 3, 2002)

Yeah there are a few parts that dont come in the stage II kit they dont mention or supply. Dump tube is one. You dont want to Waste under hood that is raw exhause under your hood being vented which can easily make it to air intake for cabin air and well you know. Sofarkingfast and I both have same setup we have a local shop that will make us dump tubes for $40 to get the exhaust down to the road at lease.


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## Justinian (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_what happens if I just leave it to dump w/o a pipe? I mean, it's still dumping, just in a differnt part of the engine, right?

The temperature of the gas you're dumping is between 1200 and 1600 degrees. Do you really want all that hot air at the top of your engine bay?
Not to mention the fact that it is just raw exhaust fumes.
If you don't reroute, at least make a dump tube that allows the exhaust gas out of your engine bay.


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## Justinian (Dec 28, 2001)

*Re: (JettaGLXdriver)*

Yeah, what he said
/me pays the price for getting distracted before finishing the thread


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (Justinian)*

Heres what my dump looks like.. Can't see a whole lot, but you get the idea


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Jeff,
what happens if I just leave it to dump w/o a pipe? I mean, it's still dumping, just in a differnt part of the engine, right?
Later,

You'll fill the engine bay with hot rich exhaust and possibly induct that same exhaust back in to your intake. Just take the manifold off, bolt the wastegate and the turbo and the downpipe together, buy a 1.5" diameter mandrel stainless bathroom handle from Home Depot, take it all to an exhaust shop and have them weld together a reroute like so:


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Marty,
Would an exh shop have those flanges you used on each end of the pipe on either side of that "flex section-looking part"?
That leads me to my next Q...
Is that indeed some type of flex section or is it just the picture playing games with me?
Is that just a straight 1.5" pipe in b/w the curved parts that the shop supplied?
So, if I've got this correct...
You went to HD and bought one of their SS mandrel 1.5" bathroom handle, gave it to the shop and told them what you wanted to do...and they supplied the short straight tube and the flanges and welded it all together, correct?
I'll do this over the weekend then...
Just let me know I've got this correct so I don't walk into this muffler shop and them stare at me like I'm an idiot!








Later,


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

exhaust shop isn't going to have tial 38mm flanges. You'll need to get some from ATP. The stainless bath handle rocks. Flex section is a good idea since stainless expands and contracts quite a bit. I'm not sure where to get one that small. The one Marty has looks like a hydraulics part. 
Definitely do a re-route. Open dumps sound ugly (IMO)


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## bdcoombs (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_
Definitely do a re-route. Open dumps sound ugly (IMO)

i personally love the sound, its like 
"rrrruuumrrrrrrrrRRRRRR I MEAN BISUNESS"


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## wptrx7 (Dec 20, 2002)

THIS IS GREAT! this should be made sticky.


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

O.K. 
intercoller piping goes: 
turbo out let to the small L pipe with the bung on it. Then to light u shaped piece \_____/, then to L shaped piece the goes from 2" to 3" and has a spot to bolt it to the bottom of the tranny, then to 3" U shaped then intercooler, then out of intercooler with 3" L shaped piece to another L shaped piece that will be facing up in the place your evap canister would be, then the long L shaped piece with the BOV flange, to the short L shaped piece that turns into 3", to the throttle body. 
Hope that helps.


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## QuickA2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Does anyone know what is the bolt size for the oil return flange, and the DP where it meets the turbo housing I need those









_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (QuickA2)*

Oil return 8mm x 20mm...2 
Not sure on the DP bolts,I would call them.


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (mattstacks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mattstacks* »_O.K. 
intercoller piping goes: 
turbo out let to the small L pipe with the bung on it. Then to light u shaped piece \_____/, then to L shaped piece the goes from 2" to 3" and has a spot to bolt it to the bottom of the tranny, then to 3" U shaped then intercooler, then out of intercooler with 3" L shaped piece to another L shaped piece that will be facing up in the place your evap canister would be, then the long L shaped piece with the BOV flange, to the short L shaped piece that turns into 3", to the throttle body. 
Hope that helps. 

No to contradict, cause I have not installed my kit yet...
But I think the first L piece that you refer to as connecting to the turbo outlet is actually connected as the intake pipe to the compressor inlet.
And the piping should go from 2" to 2.5" w/ only the 3" section at the throttle body. 
Let me know if any of this is incorrect, I want to be sure I understand this for my install. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Here is a pic of the Tial gaskets w/ WG. 
Do these look acceptable or do I need to seek some w/ the fire-ring as mentioned??


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (GKONYA)*

The piece that I am talking about is the piece between the down pipe and the L piece in this picture . It has the small nipple on it. 
The piece that goes to the compressor inlet that would have have an air filteron it is not in this picture. 
well it is in that picture just still in its bubble wrapping on the right side. 
the piece that goes to the throttle body is the J shaped piece that has a 3" end to it. 








It is the smaller L piece with the bung. 

The fire ring that was mentioned is the metal ring in that picture between the gate and the gaskets. 
This ring needs to go inbetween the manifold and the gate. 




_Modified by mattstacks at 1:29 PM 5-6-2004_


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## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (mattstacks)*

Ok, I'm missing the short L nippled pipe then. Guess I'll deal w/ it during the install...damn.
What pipes into the nipple?
I got the t3t4 piping kit, but plans changed and am going full t4.








Thanks for confirming the fire ring and thanks for clarifying for me.


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## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (GKONYA)*

what that nipple is for is a good question. 
I assumed it was for the breather coming from the cam cover, but after thought I wasnt sure.
Since it would be getting that positive pressure from the turbo. 
Honestly I dont know . 
And ATP wont answer their phone. Of course. 
I just welded mine shut.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_exhaust shop isn't going to have tial 38mm flanges. You'll need to get some from ATP. The stainless bath handle rocks. Flex section is a good idea since stainless expands and contracts quite a bit. I'm not sure where to get one that small. The one Marty has looks like a hydraulics part. 
Definitely do a re-route. Open dumps sound ugly (IMO)

So, tell me this...
Is this the part I need then???
http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=FLS
This is explained on atp's website as:
"Steel - External Wastegate Drilled Flange" and they go on to explain it like this:
"CNC'd steel external wastegate weld flange. Designed for Turbonetics Deltagate or Tial 38mm external wastegate. Perfect for dump tubes. Mounting holes are drilled through. Flange is 3/8" thick to prevent warping in high temperature applications."
So, how many of these flanges do I need for this application? My guess is two is fine? drilled, not tapped?
Here's what I picked up today from The Home Depot:








Am I in the right direction????
Later,


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

I purchased the stainless flexible stuff from JCWhitney. It was about $25 for 5 feet or so IIRC. I would recommend using a couple Tial flanges like I did. You need to pay attention to which flanges need to be threaded and which need to be clearance holes. I made my L dump pipe with clearance flanges on both ends, and welded a tapped flange on the end that goes in to the downpipe. This made it incredibly easy to install, and will be very easy to take apart. But as long as you have a long flex section in there, you could get away with just one flange that attaches to the Tial, and bend it out of way when you're assembling.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (mattstacks)*

Guys,
What fitting(s) do I need to run my TB coolant/water lines in and out of the turbo????
It seems so easy but I need some special fittings for this, correct?

Later,


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## Blak Golf (Sep 10, 2003)

this is the best thread ever keep on posting ur progress


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Blak Golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blak Golf* »_this is the best thread ever keep on posting ur progress
 
It is, but I only created it...
It's really amazing how everybody is actually putting their $.02 in and making this the awesome thread that it is.
I'll keep posting pics as I go AND will try and keep them active for as long as I can on my website. The goal is that these pics don't become X's and others can learn before they get started. Wouldn't that be awesome?!
Now, back to my question I posted two posts up...about fittings for coolant lines...where can I get these and what are they called exactly???








Later,


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Guys,
What fitting(s) do I need to run my TB coolant/water lines in and out of the turbo????
It seems so easy but I need some special fittings for this, correct?

Later,

Mine were 5/18" - 11 threads... I tapped it out using a 3/8"-11 NPT tap so I could use brass fittings from Home Depot.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_
Mine were 5/18" - 11 threads... I tapped it out using a 3/8"-11 NPT tap so I could use brass fittings from Home Depot. 

Ok, 
So let me understand this right...
The coolant "holes" on the turbo housing are just holes - ie. not threaded?
So, you used a 3/8"-11NPT tap and actually created the thread for the inside of those holes, correct?
Then just screwed in the 5/18"-11 threads? 
And you meant, 5/18"-11 not 5/8"-11...
Please correct me if I'm wrong here...just want to make sure I do this correctly.








Later,


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Ok, 
So let me understand this right...
The coolant "holes" on the turbo housing are just holes - ie. not threaded?
So, you used a 3/8"-11NPT tap and actually created the thread for the inside of those holes, correct?
Then just screwed in the 5/18"-11 threads? 
And you meant, 5/18"-11 not 5/8"-11...
Please correct me if I'm wrong here...just want to make sure I do this correctly.








Later,

The water passages are threaded. I've only seen NPT taped passages personally. Mine were standard 3/8" NPT. Just get some standard brass fittings to adapt from the 3/8" NPT to the 5/16" barb of the stock TB coolant lines. A right angle will make your life easier. Use the spring-loaded type clamps (like the stock ones on the TB coolant connections), as the screw type will slowly leak coolant.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_
The water passages are threaded. I've only seen NPT taped passages personally. Mine were standard 3/8" NPT. Just get some standard brass fittings to adapt from the 3/8" NPT to the 5/16" barb of the stock TB coolant lines. A right angle will make your life easier. Use the spring-loaded type clamps (like the stock ones on the TB coolant connections), as the screw type will slowly leak coolant.









Nice,
So it's easlier than I thought!!!!
Thanks bro!
Now,
anybody know where I can source these fittings?  As simple as hitting The Home Depot or any local hardware store? Or is this more of a specialty item?
Later,


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Oh, And does it matter which side is intake and exhaust (regarding the coolant)???
Or will it go through either way?
Later,


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Coolant in/out doesn't matter. 
My turbo is an "OEM" turbo, not a turbonetics casting which you probably have. In your case NPT fittings will probably spin right in. Home Depot!


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_anybody know where I can source these fittings? As simple as hitting The Home Depot or any local hardware store? Or is this more of a specialty item?
Later,

HD should have everything you need, if not there is a place called Nyco in Souderton that carries all the fitting and clamps you will ever need. Its the only place I goto for hardware http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (schrickedVR6)*

I just stummbled upon this thread.....didn't want to read all 2 pages.....but did anyone suggest throwing away the ATP software yet?







Sorry I had to, congrats on the purchase though. Enjoy the rush http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (1QUIKVR)*

Nater:
Join our club, look in my signature.
Want picturs: http://swankhouse.com/ipw-web/gallery/album10
IM me if you want any help, I just did this whole process about three weeks ago...and still working on it. I blew up my first turbo (because it was ****) and now I am finally running. It is fun, and just know, it is all worth it.
Good luck.
Ryan


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## 1QUIKVR (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_Coolant in/out doesn't matter. 
My turbo is an "OEM" turbo, not a turbonetics casting which you probably have. In your case NPT fittings will probably spin right in. Home Depot! 

That's where I got my coolant set up from!! Fit great!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (SoFarKingFast)*

Ryan,
I just joined. Same username....
posted up a "newbie" thread...
See you there.
I'm gonna go back to work on the car. 
Will take some pics.
Later,


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## JettaGLXdriver (Oct 3, 2002)

cool going over to the site.


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## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (JettaGLXdriver)*

With no fear of sounding like a noob to the turbo world, I have a question. In the first pic where you show your turbo and how it's going to mount to the manifold, you say it needs to be clocked 180 degrees. I was going to mount mine the exact way you show, without clocking it first. I'm going to be running a non Intercooled setup for awhile so I figured that be the way to go seeing as its a short route to the TB. If someone could tell me if this is ok or not would be great. Thanks


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## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (95GLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95GLS* »_With no fear of sounding like a noob to the turbo world, I have a question. In the first pic where you show your turbo and how it's going to mount to the manifold, you say it needs to be clocked 180 degrees. I was going to mount mine the exact way you show, without clocking it first. I'm going to be running a non Intercooled setup for awhile so I figured that be the way to go seeing as its a short route to the TB. If someone could tell me if this is ok or not would be great. Thanks

yep, thats the way to do it for low boost non-intercooled http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Nice,
So it's easlier than I thought!!!!
Thanks bro!
Now,
anybody know where I can source these fittings? As simple as hitting The Home Depot or any local hardware store? Or is this more of a specialty item?
Later,

The coolant holes on the T4 that I got from Killa were 16mm x 1.5mm. I used 16mm x 1.5mm to -6an. That is a horrible thread for liquid. I have 10 to 12 layers of teflon tape and they still leak a little.


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MunKyBoy* »_
yep, thats the way to do it for low boost non-intercooled http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

thanx munky. I realized that in order for my downpipe to work correctly (ATP 2.5" T3/T4) I need to have the turbine on the right side (assuming you are looking at it from the front of the car). This means I need to clock the turbo in order to have the compressor outlet point straight up. How do you clock a turbo? Is it as easy as loosening the bolts and rotating the housing or is there more involved? Some insight on my problem would be great. Thanx guys


----------



## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (95GLS)*

yup there are 3 sets of bolts on the turbo.. one set you loosen to clock the compressor, one set to clock the exhaust housing, and one set to clock the oil/coolant ports.. at least that was the way it was for me.. Just loosen the bolts on the cold side and it should slide right around.. you don't even have to loosen them that much to get it to spin freely


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

OK...
So, here's the update with lots and lots of pictures....
My water pipe (aka "crack pipe") broke so I had to install a new one.
Here's a pic of me cleaning off the thermostat housing:








I installed my waterpipe (shown here attached to the thermostat housing with some grease sprayed around the outside by the seals...








before I re-installed the thermo housing:








I actually had to pull the waterpipe back out again b/c it was easier to do what I did in the picture above this one and hook them together then push the assembly in as one. This way I was able to line up the "nipples" and stuff with the thermo housing...
Oh yea, had my oil pan welded today from my buddy. It looked like it would never leak any oil but I am a freakin pessimist so I threw some atv sealant around the outside just to be sure







.








I installed my nice and clean (but old) thermostat housing:








Just snapping the thermo housing back into place along with the waterpipe in one motion:








This shot shows everything back together AND also gives you an idea of how I routed the oil feed line...You could probably do it a million different ways but since I had a long line I figured this would be the best way...








Just another shot:








Ok,
So, I'm ready to start my i/c install...
I put my bumper/rebar back on (by accident). I realized after the fact that I should probably have left it off...But it was nice starting to see the car look like a car again







...









I started to cut but using my recip saw I effin cut into my a/c condensor...
Here's what happens when you aren't careful with your sawzall:
















No a/c now...was thinking of just pulling it all out but I'll just replace my condensor at a later point...

Did a crapload of cutting and here's what I ended up with:








Now it's starting to take shape!!!








I actually almost have the bumper back on but forgot to take pics (was in a serious groove with the dremel tool).
This part is a PITA and I think I've cut too much in a couple spots. To me, it looks pretty bad...but we'll see. I'll post up pics of the bumper once I get the entire thing put together...
Thanks for looking guys...
Will continue to post up on this thread as my project progresses!!!!
Later,



_Modified by nater at 11:03 PM 5-7-2004_


----------



## JettaGLXdriver (Oct 3, 2002)

totally awsome.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Looks great. I started with an air grinder on the bumper, then just took it to my exhaust guy to cut out for me. Took 2 mins, and $20. Well worth it. I cut a lot of my bumper away too:


----------



## Looking4ajetta (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

This for sure needs a sticky.
Awesome info guys!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Looking4ajetta)*

OK,
So I've starting routing my plumbing...I don't have pics yet (give me til tomorrow)...
Basically, what do I have to do to get my turbo inlet and the large elbow to clear my a/c (whatever those two lines are going into the firewall)...
I've pulled the little box off that seems to protect them a bit and started yanking at them and bending them away...
But it's still a tight fit. Is this the way it's supposed to be? Any tips?
And another thing, there is a canister of sorts which is associated with the a/c compressor via a/c lines (with the two bolts that are attached to the frame behind the passenger side headlight area)...I disconnected the lines going in and out (if you see above I already accidentally drained my freon with the sawzall)...where can I move that silver canister to????
I'll post pics later but I know you all knwo what I'm talking about w/o pics...
Help!!!









Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Actually,
Here's the pic (from the first page) of my a/c lines by the firewall and how they are too close to the inlet of the turbo:








Is it just as simple as bending these lines until they are sufficiently out of the way?
I mean, short of pulling out the a/c alltogether.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok guys, 
So I lied...here's more pics from what I did this morning (not much but good to document, I suppose):
Self-expressive...i guess. TB plumbing...








Close-up of the a/c lines that I had to bend (notice the one on the right that I bent into the one on the left - but the left one doesn't budge. I still need to complete this as there still is not enough space for the elbow to attach to the turbo: help








This is a nice shot that shows how I (now, I was guessing what I needed to do as I've got no direction) ran the plumbing from the i/c to the throttle body. Anybody that sees anything wrong or that is important to point out PLEASE SPEAK UP AS THIS THREAD IS FOR OTHERS TO SEE LATER...








Another shot, but here's my question: where the heck do I put that a/c canister that is out of the way (now) on the bumper (the silver thing)?








A cool shot from above the car...








The pics are here so you can help me but also others as well when they do their turbo...so please chime in with any and all relevant info!!!!!
Thanks guys!








Later,


----------



## Patrick Schmidt (Jun 30, 1999)

*Re: (nater)*

Looking good.
Definitely pick up the WG gaskets with the fire ring; the pair supplied by Tial are complete junk and will burn through. I have also heard of people having good luck with running no gasket, just the fire ring.
APtuning and ATP both carry the gaskets, as well as http://www.import-parts.com
Cheers,
Pat


----------



## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: (Patrick Schmidt)*

nater - good luck with everything. looks like your almost complete. keep us updated, as thsi has helped me with a lot of my questions that i know i will have soon.
-mike


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Thanks Mike.
The main reason for this thread and all the pics is b/c I know this is such an unknown territory for me, and I just dove right in and did it. While I'm not done - and it hasn't been easy...the point is, that if I can do it than many others can...
So, I'll try and take pics on every step I take and try to keep them from going to red X's so that others can learn before they get started on their turbo vr6 project

Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Guys,
What's this "nipple" sticking out of the last pipe that goes up and into the turbo (the first pipe out of the turbo going towards the inlet of the i/c???
My guess is you just need to cap it off, right?
So, WHAT DO I USE TO CAP IT OFF AND WHERE CAN I GET IT???
Here's the pic (it's the only 'nipple' you can see sticking out):








Thanks guys...
Later,


----------



## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Home Depot sell rubber pipe caps... look hard and youll find them. 
I think that the nipple in question though is supposed to either re-route the BOV - OR - what about the crankcase breather?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_Home Depot sell rubber pipe caps... look hard and youll find them. 
I think that the nipple in question though is supposed to either re-route the BOV - OR - what about the crankcase breather? 

I dunno...
What about the crankcase breather????
Doesn't it just go back to "stock" the way it was hooked up before?

Later,


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

sweet pics.. I would love to turbo right now
If you need a AC condensor let me know. I got rid of everything with the s/c install


----------



## JettaGLXdriver (Oct 3, 2002)

wouldnt want to plumb that badboy up to crank case breather. Very bad idea unless you want 15psi being pushed into the top of your head.. LOL
I got a baggy of table leg caps (rubber from home depot in hardware area) so did Sofarkingfast and his is still holding. Push them on and clamp it on. Nice pics. I totally agree on how intimidating it can be starting a VR6T project thats why i started the VR6turbo group site. I hope it grows and helps more and more people with the "surprises" that come up building a VR6T. Good work


----------



## Kor (Mar 21, 2003)

*Re: (JettaGLXdriver)*

This has GOT to be made into a sticky thread.


----------



## Holy Piston (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: (Kor)*

That nipple is for Idle stabiliser valve on OBD-1 cars using stock mangement,you can go to NAPA and ask for (heater core plugs)or heater core outlet nipple plugs.........they are rubber caps that fit perfectly and you can hoseclamp them.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the good info on these nipple plugs.
VR6 Mole,
I'll let you know...as I def want to keep my a/c and I'll be NEEDING an a/c condensor.
And you are close.
I'm just west of Eagle, PA - straight shot down from you on Rt100.
I'll take a pic of what I get and post it up here so that others will get this stuff the first time around w/o having to post up like I did...Through all the searching and reading that is one thing that I never saw a post on.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok,
All of my plumbing is now done (basically)...
The only thing(s) really left to do is put back on the stock bumper (all cut up







), have the muffler shop do my dump tube for me (will take pics) and also have them do my exhaust...
But I'll have the oil pan back on tonight and new fluids (oil and coolant) in and will start her up.
Oh, one last thing...
Anybody have a diagram of ALL of the VACUUM lines I need to hook up here???
I'm confused...I see two nipples sticking out of my BOV and one or two coming out of my WG (I think...although I haven't looked at my WG for a while)...
Do I just route all of these back into my "vacuum system" in any way I can (ie. using brass Y connectors and just plugging them all in)?

Later,


----------



## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

You only use the bottome Nipple on the BOV and the WG.


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (J Dubya)*

Hey nate.
Looks like you've moved over to the darkside








I'll join you over there next year.
Good luck








BTW open wastegate sounds amazing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (J Dubya)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J Dubya* »_You only use the bottome Nipple on the BOV and the WG.









You cap off the other? 
Later,


----------



## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

No, I left them open. No need to cap them off.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

RTFM.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Marty,
What's that supposed to mean







?
I think it's something like, 'read the ***** manual'? Am I close???








Later,


----------



## sims159914 (May 14, 2003)

hey nater im right in exton, i would love to see the setup when you are finished, im tryin to turbo my crossflow and your experiance would be of help.


----------



## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: (J Dubya)*


_Quote, originally posted by *J Dubya* »_You only use the bottome Nipple on the BOV and the WG.









This is WRONG about the BOV. You use the top nipple on the BOV and the bottom nipple on the WG. You don't have to cap the lower nipple unless you are rerouting.


----------



## BMG_Customz (Mar 18, 2004)

This has helped me out greatly!!! I have the same kit but with the T04 and cant get any help from ATP. Hopefully will be on the road this week.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I've got a t04...


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok,
So my next step is to get the downpipe connected to either the flange on my stock CAT or to get it connected to a test pipe...
Problem is, the flange on my 3" DP is huge and my exhaust (w/o cat) is a TT 2.5"...
So, how long of a test pipe do I need (to go from downpipe to AFTER the cat) and where can I get that large flange so that I can just have the muffler shop weld it in place for me...?????
I heard Pep Boys (much like autozone) has some misc exhaust parts...do you think I can find what I need there?

Later,


----------



## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Go to an exhaust shop, they should have a flange. That's where I got one for my 3". Take your cat or something to get the bolt pattern.
Summit sells reducers that can be welded to pipes to reduce the size.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ohio Brian* »_Go to an exhaust shop, they should have a flange. That's where I got one for my 3". Take your cat or something to get the bolt pattern.
Summit sells reducers that can be welded to pipes to reduce the size.
 
Thanks buddy.
Found a local muffler shop that did the welding for me today. Car is about done.
I'll be firing her up tomorrow or during the week.
Later,


----------



## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Nice man. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (Ohio Brian)*

Get that thing to a dyno when it's done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Looking4ajetta (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

Updates please...ASAPPP?????~!!!!!!


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (Looking4ajetta)*

An update would be great..also, anyone know where to buy reasonably priced silicone connectors?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (95GLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95GLS* »_An update would be great..also, anyone know where to buy reasonably priced silicone connectors?
 
I fired up the car yesterday. I need to get the car to the muffler shop again b/c the guy didn't weld something perfectly. So, I'll be putting the front end back on today and get it "roadworthy" so nobodys' looking at me crazy....
I'll hit pep boys up for some exhaust parts to get me a bit quieter for the trip.
Car should be done this week. I've got a CLEARANCE issue with where the short U bend pipe goes into the TB. It is hitting the turbo really badly!!!! Any tips guys? I'm just going to hammer the hell out of it today until it fits?????
Later,


----------



## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

had that same problem... 
Short Runner intake manifold is my only suggestion.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (mattstacks)*

Matt,
There has to be an easier way of doing this??? I've seen these ATP stage 2 kits installed w/o the short runners w/o any "visable" issues so someone has to know how to do it.
I'm getting 'interference' w/ my intake pipe that goes into the TB with the Turbo...
I guess I could get a longer silicone connector and just use that as a flexible connector...my only fear is that under hard engine movement it may pop off...
Any more suggestions???
I'll post up pics this afternoon of what I'm upagainst...
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (yokomomma)*

Well,
She's running! 
I've got some running issues right now but that's a tuning problem. Jeff and I will be working that out shortly.
I've also got exhaust issues but I'm going to have the muffler shop fix all that this week.
One BIG problem is a large oil leak in the worst of all spots - on my oil filter housing. Seems I didn't torque down my oil feed connector tight enough...at least that's where the oil appears to be coming from.
And I just got the front end back on!!!!
I'll try and fix it w/o having to pull the front end off again...








And, I actually did have to hammer away at that pipe just a tad bit on the underside of it so you can't see it at all. Still is a tough fit though.

Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok,
So here's the pics:
Of the front end. I butchered the bumper cover - if you can't tell that's great. But I can. I butchered the opening where there used to be the black plastic supports in the large opening. It needs to be sanded down flat and painted. Oh well!








So here's where I've still got some issues that I need you turbo experts to help with...Vacuum lines on the WG and on the BOV. I know I asked this already but ppl were talking "upper nipple" and "lower nipple" but I don't know what you guys mean when you say upper or lower...as I can't tell what's the top or the bottom anyway







.
This pic shows my WG and the Vac line I've got attached and which one it's attached to.








That vac line then goes into the area where the fpr is...I just added a Y connector and that's where it is hooked up to now. The left part of that Y connector is going to my BOV...








This is a great picture showing where I hooked up my vac line from the Y connector at the FPR to the BOV. Is this correct? Please help here...plus, for others viewing this thread in the future I'd like them to know what the EFF they are doing too







.








This is just a pic of the engine bay near the back where all the turbo stuff is...please take a good look and let me know if I'm missing something (besides the engine cover







).









Guys,
Please help here as I'd like to make sure this is 100% correct. My guess is I've got some vac lines mixed up...please get me straight so I know I'm not effing something up here.
Thanks guys!!!!

Later,


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

There are diagrams that came with both the BOV and the Wastegate that show you exactly how to hook them up.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Marty)*

Hey marty...
I was looking all around my messy garage today but realized I must have thrown those diagrams away. Man, I got that stuff like 3 weeks or more ago and the garage turned into a WAR ZONE during the turbo install...
Can't find them. But I know, I wouldn't have bothered you guys if I had them...
Sorry...need help though...

Later,


----------



## oneeuro2c (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

how was trimming the inside of the bumper cover nate?


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (oneeuro2c)*

nater,
In the pics, you show the line from the fpr going into the Y connector, the line from the BOV into the Y connector, but where is that other line going? I looked in the pics but I can't see where it ends up.


----------



## jcorallo (Jan 17, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Well,
She's running! 
I've got some running issues right now but that's a tuning problem. Jeff and I will be working that out shortly.
I've also got exhaust issues but I'm going to have the muffler shop fix all that this week.
One BIG problem is a large oil leak in the worst of all spots - on my oil filter housing. Seems I didn't torque down my oil feed connector tight enough...at least that's where the oil appears to be coming from.
And I just got the front end back on!!!!
I'll try and fix it w/o having to pull the front end off again...








And, I actually did have to hammer away at that pipe just a tad bit on the underside of it so you can't see it at all. Still is a tough fit though.

Later,

nater,
about the oil leak - what type of thread is on the end of the oil pipe thats leaking? if its one of those tapered things, you might just need some teflon tape on there...
as a current SC owner mulling the whole turbo idea, I'm watching avidly btw...!
Jules


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Hey marty...
I was looking all around my messy garage today but realized I must have thrown those diagrams away. Man, I got that stuff like 3 weeks or more ago and the garage turned into a WAR ZONE during the turbo install...
Can't find them. But I know, I wouldn't have bothered you guys if I had them...
Sorry...need help though...

Later,

The two lines on both the wastegate and the BOV connect to the top and bottom areas of the diaphram. The net pressure differential between these two areas sets the force on the diaphram, which is resisted by the return spring that then sets the valve position. Once you understand how these devices work, it becomes very clear how to hook them up.
You want the wastegate valve to open when the manifold is pressurized, so a boost line runs to the bottom of the diaphram, and the top of the diaphram is left exposed to the atmosphere. Then as boost increases, there is an increasing pressure difference that tries to open the valve.
You want the BOV to open when the manifold is under vacuum, so a vacuum line runs to the top of the diaphram, and the bottom of the diaphram is left exposed to the atmosphere. Then as vacuum increases, there is an increasing pressure difference that again tries to open the valve.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

So now for the really stupic question (feeling stupid right now...)...
I see plenty of (what I call) vac lines but where are my boost lines?
I thought it was one and the same?
so, according to my pic I've got a vac line that should be attached to the bottom of my WG (or closest to the exh manifold)...
And,
Looking at the BOV, I should have my vac line connected on the top...or farthest from the intake pipe, correct?
And yes, Marty...once I understand how a diaphram works I'll know exactly what the hell to do...But until then I gotta sound like a wee-tard first!








Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (oneeuro2c)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oneeuro2c* »_how was trimming the inside of the bumper cover nate?

A bi!ch!








I tore that thing up. Now I know what you were talking about when you said you were still a bit unhappy with the inside of your bumper cover...mines' a bit flimsy b/c I left out the styrofoam...didn't feel like trimming styrofoam







.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jcorallo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jcorallo* »_
nater,
about the oil leak - what type of thread is on the end of the oil pipe thats leaking? if its one of those tapered things, you might just need some teflon tape on there...
as a current SC owner mulling the whole turbo idea, I'm watching avidly btw...!
Jules

Whatever fitting came with the ATP turbo setup is the one I've got - I guess basic brass-type fittings...
I thought I put teflon tape on those threads but maybe not.
What I really think I did is just forget to torque it down...that's my mistake ...
But IMO it's not that simple to undo...as I've had a helluva time getting that oil filter housing off every time I've had to do it...it doesn't get any easier. 
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (95GLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95GLS* »_nater,
In the pics, you show the line from the fpr going into the Y connector, the line from the BOV into the Y connector, but where is that other line going? I looked in the pics but I can't see where it ends up.









 
Hey man...this pic should show you (as long as I'm understanding you correctly...) that the line in question goes to the WG....is that bad??? 








Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Am I understanding correctly that I need to get my boost line by hooking it up to the compressor housing somehow???
If so, that may be why my car is running a bit odd right now







b/c I had no idea that there was a connection there to be had... 
Correct me if I'm wrong here guys...
Later,


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_So now for the really stupic question (feeling stupid right now...)...
I see plenty of (what I call) vac lines but where are my boost lines?
I thought it was one and the same?
so, according to my pic I've got a vac line that should be attached to the bottom of my WG (or closest to the exh manifold)...
And,
Looking at the BOV, I should have my vac line connected on the top...or farthest from the intake pipe, correct?
And yes, Marty...once I understand how a diaphram works I'll know exactly what the hell to do...But until then I gotta sound like a wee-tard first!








Later,

A vacuum line is one that can see vacuum. Only lines connected to the intake manifold (any place after the throttle body) can see vacuum. A boost line is one that can see boost. Any place after the turbo can see boost. One generally attaches the wastegate boost line directly to the optional small fitting on the compressor housing, as this gives the quickest response time.
If you want a line to see vacuum, it has to be after the throttle body. If you want it to see boost, it has to be after the turbo (and therefore after the throttle body is fine as well). If you want it to see boost but don't want it to see vacuum, it needs to be between the turbo and the throttle body.


_Modified by Marty at 4:38 AM 5-17-2004_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_ One generally attaches the wastegate boost line directly to the optional small fitting on the compressor housing, as this gives the quickest response time._Modified by Marty at 4:38 AM 5-17-2004_

How about if I don't have that optional fitting on the turbo? Then where would be the best place to hook up the WG line???

Later,


----------



## WMTJ (Jan 26, 2001)

Ok, who knows where I could get a diagram of both the tail wastegate and the Greddy BOV? Web sites?


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (WMTJ)*

nate got ur im tonight, call me in the morning and well see if we can work that out tomorow nite at the shop


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_nate got ur im tonight, call me in the morning and well see if we can work that out tomorow nite at the shop

dont ever let this person touch your car.. please...


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*

Update:
I don't know what the problem is...
The car ran yesterday, it ran pretty bad (as if it were missing a cylinder) but it ran. Today I couldnt' even start it...wouldnt' hold idle. I'm going to check to see if I soldered the MAF sensor wires wrong today. 
But that's wierd, if I had...then it wouldn't have run yesterday.
So, my only bet here is to get with someone that has a turbo and compare everything...at this point I'm a bit at a loss...
I'll keep this thread posted on what I find out and how things progress...
Any tips here I'd appreciate it!
Thanks.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_nate got ur im tonight, call me in the morning and well see if we can work that out tomorow nite at the shop

We may have to put this off til tomorrow b/c I'll be watching the flyers game tonight....
Unless we get some work done on it beforehand. But I can't get the car started to get to your shop anyway...DOH!








I'll def be working on it in my garage today after work though.
Later,


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

call me when u get done work, me and tim will come over


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*









Hi nater, from what i see on your pictures, the FPR is not attached to any vacuum line.








It seems like the vacuum line from the inlet header that was originally attached to the fpr, isn't attached any more, , so you proly have a vacuum leek there and the FPR is not working. 
So non of the valves like BOV and BOOST, aren’t working as well.











_Modified by MarcoVR6SC at 1:58 PM 5-18-2004_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Marco,
Thanks man. I'm not a total idiot when it comes to mechanical aptitude but when talking about vacuum lines and the like I am a self-proclaimed idiot.
I was just thinking that as long as I had them all connected together with one "source" of vacuum I'd be ok...but I totally forgot about the FPR...
Tim and Jason will stop by later today (hopefully) and we'll square this away.
Thanks guys!!! I"ll report back with pics what we do.
Later,


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Tim and Jason will stop by later today (hopefully) and we'll square this away.

If you're talking about Bunson and Beaker, good luck


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*








i think it needs loop tuned paul


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*

Quick lesson before you guys blow something up: Do as I say, not as I do. That is all.


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Your running a chip right? Don't forget that the ECU needs some time to adapt(as good as it can), so proly the engine will run bad and a little rich at first, but then after a few miles and some engine cool downs it will run better.
Well that's for my car, but it's obdI, i think that with odbII it adapts a little faster.


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_
The water passages are threaded. I've only seen NPT taped passages personally. Mine were standard 3/8" NPT. Just get some standard brass fittings to adapt from the 3/8" NPT to the 5/16" barb of the stock TB coolant lines. A right angle will make your life easier. Use the spring-loaded type clamps (like the stock ones on the TB coolant connections), as the screw type will slowly leak coolant.









Where did you get these brass coolant line connectors? They should be the same size as those on a T3 right?


----------



## 667 (Jul 26, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (veedub11)*

I have no useful info. I just wanted to say ROCK ON NATE! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hoopTser (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
I was just thinking that as long as I had them all connected together with one "source" of vacuum I'd be ok...but I totally forgot about the FPR...


Yeah you the right idea but you forgot one important part, to connect a vacuum source! Where do you expect the bov, wastegate, or the FPR to get a vacuum signal from if they are only connected to each other. This is your problem. At idle your car is getting way too much fuel, in boost your car is getting way too little fuel. The only time the fueling is correct without a vacuum signal on the FPR is when you are at 0 vacuum.


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (hoopTser)*

we messed around with the piping, redid some vaccum lines and redid the throttle body intercooler pipe and i have to say it ran better but now it needs some custom chip tuning, at 9 psi its damn fast


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_we messed around with the piping, redid some vaccum lines and redid the throttle body intercooler pipe and i have to say it ran better but now it needs some custom chip tuning, at 9 psi its damn fast
 
Yes, it needs Jeff's attention. But I took it out today and it rips.
Goddam, is that WG LOUD!!! I'm def having it re-routed back into the exhaust later this week.
But it's amazing how quiet the exhaust is. I mean, it's quieter than stock but an amazing tone that the turbo adds...a nice rumble.
Later,


----------



## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

damn man, good to see your almost done with your project bro! Have you fixed you car up yet? That dude up there is right about your FPR. I'm almost positive that is why the car isn't running.. You NEED your vac source to that.. I just finished with my own project as well so if you have any questions let me know and I can walk you through whatever you need http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (MunKyBoy)*

thanks munky!!! Yea, fpr wasn't connected to any line. We connected then it started up!
Later,


----------



## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_ 
Yes, it needs Jeff's attention. But I took it out today and it rips.
Goddam, is that WG LOUD!!! I'm def having it re-routed back into the exhaust later this week.
But it's amazing how quiet the exhaust is. I mean, it's quieter than stock but an amazing tone that the turbo adds...a nice rumble.
Later,

My open gate isn't loud at all. Actually, I can't here it at all. It turns 90 degrees out of the gate and is open. Is ther something wrong with mine? Builds boost to about 12-13 and stays their until I shift. Starts spooling at about 2500, hits about 5 at 3k, fully spooled by about 4500-4800.


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

nater, some complete pics of vac and boost lines would be great..maybe even a little diagram or some "help" from paint in your pics would be awesome..I'm sure there are more of us who could use this than me, great job documenting everything http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (95GLS)*

Now that I know it's all working correctly I'll take a couple pics of the engine bay which shows everything....
That way we can keep these pics on this thread for others to see.

But to be honest, my problems were quite simple and almost idiotic







so I doubt anyone else will have major problems like I had. I mean, even though my car was freaking out it was a matter of just connecting one or two lines and all was well. No biggie. 
Later,


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

u should also show the "custom" throttle body intercooler pipe hammer tuned


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_ Builds boost to about 12-13 and stays their until I shift. Starts spooling at about 2500, hits about 5 at 3k, fully spooled by about 4500-4800.









what size turbo? specs?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jasonknezo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jasonknezo* »_u should also show the "custom" throttle body intercooler pipe hammer tuned
 
I'd like to...but am afraid to pull that thing off for fear of NEVER getting it back on again.
Can you imagine me posting a HELP thread asking for two guys to come over to my place to get a goddam pipe back in.
Goddam Wh0re of a car







.
Later,


----------



## jasonknezo (May 17, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

its ghetto custom, better than hittin the turbo


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

That's what you get for buying ATP piping! You knew it was coming.


----------



## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (schrickedVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *schrickedVR6* »_
what size turbo? specs?

T04E 60-1 .58/P I don't understand why I can't hear my wastegate?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_That's what you get for buying ATP piping! You knew it was coming.
 
Actually Marty,
That's what I didn't know was coming. Of all the investigative threads I searched through nothing said the piping wouldn't fit quite right...

To be honest, I thought it was the best way to go...if I bought their i/c with piping I knew that it would be 'close'....
It wasn't too bad I suppose.
I had a very large oil leak coming out of my oil filter housing that I had to tear the entire front end of the car off to get to today...
But it's fixed. Seems I didn't torque down my oil feed brass fitting quite enough.
While I was in there I used teflon tape (making very sure not to interfere with any oil passages) on every single fitting and torqued them down very well.
Not a drop of oil came out while it idled for over 30 mins tonight







.
On sat I get the exhaust done and AM DEF GETTING THE DUMP TUBE REROUTED b/c the damn thing is LOUD AS BALLS







.
Not my cup o tea. 
But shes up and running.

Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_
T04E 60-1 .58/P I don't understand why I can't hear my wastegate?

Is it true that you won't hear your wg if you are running so much boost that it never needs to open?
I mean, I don't know much but is that the case?

Later,


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_ 
Actually Marty,
That's what I didn't know was coming. Of all the investigative threads I searched through nothing said the piping wouldn't fit quite right...

To be honest, I thought it was the best way to go...if I bought their i/c with piping I knew that it would be 'close'....
It wasn't too bad I suppose.
I had a very large oil leak coming out of my oil filter housing that I had to tear the entire front end of the car off to get to today...
But it's fixed. Seems I didn't torque down my oil feed brass fitting quite enough.
While I was in there I used teflon tape (making very sure not to interfere with any oil passages) on every single fitting and torqued them down very well.
Not a drop of oil came out while it idled for over 30 mins tonight







.
On sat I get the exhaust done and AM DEF GETTING THE DUMP TUBE REROUTED b/c the damn thing is LOUD AS BALLS







.
Not my cup o tea. 
But shes up and running.

Later,

When I was researching their piping I found story after story about how it fit like crap, how people wished they never bought it, etc etc. I don't remember how much was actually documented in threads, but I did speak to many different people who had installed the piping at one time or another.


----------



## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

There is no way I should be maxing this turbo out at 12-13psi. If it wasn't opening, shouldn't I have a lot higher reading? After it spools, it is dead level until I shift. My MBC can adjust it up and down. I took apart the wastegate tonight. I couldn't actuate it by hand. It had a black, extremly stiff spring in it. I have a few others that came with it. There is very little "soot" in the "blowout tube". With a lighter or no spring in it, it opens smooth by hand. Any ideas why it's not loud? I have a 90 atatched directly to the wastegate that points down about 1.5". That's it. Car pulls hard though







Wouldn't mind a faster spool.


----------



## booyah (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

honestly, if it runs fine, i would leave it... by the sound of things it gives you what you want, so it sounds like a winner to me.


----------



## MunKyBoy (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_There is no way I should be maxing this turbo out at 12-13psi. If it wasn't opening, shouldn't I have a lot higher reading? After it spools, it is dead level until I shift. My MBC can adjust it up and down. I took apart the wastegate tonight. I couldn't actuate it by hand. It had a black, extremly stiff spring in it. I have a few others that came with it. There is very little "soot" in the "blowout tube". With a lighter or no spring in it, it opens smooth by hand. Any ideas why it's not loud? I have a 90 atatched directly to the wastegate that points down about 1.5". That's it. Car pulls hard though







Wouldn't mind a faster spool.

Yeah, thats weird.. I have about the same size turbo as you, maybe alittle bigger and its freakin LOUD (im running 9 PSI)! when i drive by the WG drowns out every note my car makes.. It is true that the higher the psi the quieter it would be, but you should still be able to hear it quite noticibly.. But if it spools fine, and you get the boost you want, I wouldn't worry about it..


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Maybe he's got a dump tube rerouted back into his exhaust? And therefor can't hear it? 
Later,


----------



## JettaGLXdriver (Oct 3, 2002)

OK so compressor housing hole. Put a elbow in there then run hose to waste gate actuator (unless a boost controller is used then compressor to controller to wastegate)? Then the manifold vac/boost fitting comes off by fuel press reg then goes to fpr, boost gauge, and bov? I am almost to this point myself.


----------



## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Maybe he's got a dump tube rerouted back into his exhaust? And therefor can't hear it? 
Later,

Naw, there is a 90 bolted to the wastegate and it sticks dowm about an inch. Not going to bitch, pulls hard










_Modified by BlownGinster at 4:04 PM 5-21-2004_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

Some *final* pics of the car "up and running" in my driveway...
Looks a bit cleaner than those 'other' pics I was posting up here in the last couple weeks







.
Jeff and I will be tuning first weekend of June so she'll be running smooth as a baby's behind then !
















And a pic of the car...looking good today!!!









Later,


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

nater,
car looks sick, bet its a blast to drive







I've got a few more parts to hunt down then I'm diving in...if it isnt to much to ask could you post that final pic of the vac/boost lines and where they go? TIA


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (95GLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95GLS* »_nater,
car looks sick, bet its a blast to drive







I've got a few more parts to hunt down then I'm diving in...if it isnt to much to ask could you post that final pic of the vac/boost lines and where they go? TIA

Thanks for the compliments!








Yea, I'll take a pic tomorrow and post it up, ok?
What I'll do is take a bunch of pics of the engine from different angles so ppl can see exactly what I've got and where it's all going (pay no mind to the open WG dump w/o the dump tube







or all of the dirty dusty smog that has attached itself to every piece of engine under the hood...I'm working on getting the DT routed back into the exhaust







)
Later,


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

car looks great, I'm glad to see you have it up and running http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
now lets see the money shot, show that engine bay


----------



## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

car looked nice to begin with, but its even better now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
goodluck with the tuning, c2 is damn good. post up some numbers when ya get around to that.
oh yeah, CONGRATS


----------



## JettaGLXdriver (Oct 3, 2002)

Coolness.. I got mine running today too thats cool.
http://swankhouse.com/swank/VR6Truns.mpg


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vwgroundzero)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwgroundzero* »_car looked nice to begin with, but its even better now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
goodluck with the tuning, c2 is damn good. post up some numbers when ya get around to that.
oh yeah, CONGRATS










Running 36# INJ.....
Should do fairly well.
Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## AggvGtivr6 (Aug 4, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

Your car looks sweet, good luck


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AggvGtivr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AggvGtivr6* »_Your car looks sweet, good luck









Thanks buddy!!!
Hey Jeff...
How does the first weekend of June sound? As in, not this weekend but next????
Later,


----------



## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

any updates bro?
mike


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (vwgroundzero)*

Yeah you ever take pics of the vac lines and what not for us other VR6T guys?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (95GLS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *95GLS* »_Yeah you ever take pics of the vac lines and what not for us other VR6T guys?
 
I want to take pics and show you guys...
Have the digicam to do it...
But it's a long story. I had it in this muffler shop where this guy really knows what he's doing (was there in and out for a solid week since my last post) and I kept getting the runaround and dealt with it (b/c they were going to give me a cash deal a serious break on the price if I paid the guy personally instead of paying midas)...
Turns out the guy was ready to quit and ended up calling in sick like 4 days in a row. I couldn't get a ride there to pick up the car until just this weekend....
Damn...
So, I've still got my open WG with no dump tube (loud as hell







) and a ****load of ugly crappy black soot in my engine compartment.
So,
I'm happy to take pics but know I'll be flamed for having an ugly engine bay....
Which is the only reason why I was holding off.
Ppl wanted "money shots" and this is NOT money.








Plus,
I'm writing from my wifes computer. Mine is out for service as I blew my hard drive and lost EVERYTHING.
Including the software to load in my camera's pics...and don't want to load it into my wifes computer right now.
I'll have the computer back by the beginning of next week.
If any of you guys need a pic of the vac lines immedietly (ie. in the middle of your project) I'd be happy to find a way to get a pic to you - just let me know.
Otherwise, I'm gonna wait until I get all my isht in order, k?
Car is still fast as uckF!!!!!! I love it!
Full boost at 1/4 throttle and at 3200rpms!!!! Holy isht! I had to put my foot all the way down to get ANY boost with the s/c!
















Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

And by the way guys...
Thanks for your interest. I haven't forgotten about this post and making it "complete" it's just that I've hit some 'snags' and it's not like they are keeping me from driving the car so I'm working on fixing them slowly but surely.
Trust me, this post will be updated for SURE!!!
Thanks for reminding me guys.
Later,


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

sounds good nater, your the man. Once we get the muscle car (67 Chevy Nova SS) outta the garage from paint the VR is going under the knife..2 stalls just isn't enough


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (95GLS)*

bump fo those vac and boost line pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Yea, I'll get them soon.
My website is currently down which means all these pics on the first-fourth pages are X's. But it'll be fixed in 2 weeks or so...
After that, I'll be able to host more pics. Until then, I'm screwed.
Later,


----------



## DST VR6 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

how is she running? it has been tuned right? curious to know how daily driveability is for you, and what kind of power youre putting down. glad it all came together for you, looking good.
mike


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Mike,
I had an appointment for tuning that I had to cancel due to rain during the first weekend of June (can't tune in the rain for a couple reasons)...
We've got a def appointment to tune my car (jeff and I) on our trip out to Midwest Massiv in Columbus, OH June 25th.
right now, the car is running real rich (by design from Jeff) just to get me up to him so we can tune...but she's still fast!!!! Real fast.
I can't wait until we tune it and get the real power







.
Trust me, when things change I'll post up.
That includes finally getting my dump tube welded back into the dp (next week). I'm pulling my turbo/dp/wg out tonight so I can get it welded....
Later,


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Nate, give us a comparo between your SC and the turbo? I know the next setup I run will be a turbo, just curious how the driveability is (off-throttle bucking/hickuping, etc.), and also wanted to find out if you put a head spacer in (if so, what compression are you running?)
Looks good man...


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_Nate, give us a comparo between your SC and the turbo? I know the next setup I run will be a turbo, just curious how the driveability is (off-throttle bucking/hickuping, etc.), and also wanted to find out if you put a head spacer in (if so, what compression are you running?)
Looks good man...

Can I get back to you about this as I am tuning with Jeff Atwood thursday night and will be at midwest massiv in Columbus, OH all weekend.
I'll post up everything when I get back (including those engine bay pics).
I've got my turbo/manifold/wg/dp all off the car and bolted together and parts sitting at the muffler shop - tomorrow my wg get's welded back into my dp (she's loud)...
So, I'll be totally completed over the weekend. If you can sit tight, I promise a full update with more pics and an in-depth analysis...
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

*UPDATE:*

Had my WG re-routed back into the DP. After a few ppl told me that it really didn't matter much that the WG be close to the Turbo outlet I figured it would be easiest to just have a straight pipe welded from the WG to the DP. Yes, it's close to the turbo but I doubt with all the exhaust coming out that the "puny" WG is gonna mess anything up.
Can I say QUIET???? Holy Schnikies...
I love it. She rips and barely makes any noise except for the turbo whistle and the BOV!
I was a bit disappointed in the welding job as the guy was a bit anxious (it seems) and may have gotten the parts too hot and seemed to have warped it a bit, I had to gingerly put things back together slowly tightening down everything in sequence...what a PITA.
But I'm done now, and I'll be meeting up with Jeff Atwood in a few hours on our way to the Midwest Massiv show to tune the car. She'll be totally done this weekend.
Those engine bay pics that someone asked for? I'll get them up here soon once I get the engine clean. now there is no WG black smoke being blown in. You should see my engine compartment...holy smokes!
Here ya go:
























Later,


----------



## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

See ya tomorrow dude!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'm totally not looking forward to this drive...
I'm laying here falling asleep (11:28pm) but gotta leave at midnight...holy crap








If you recognize the car, flag me down and say yo.
Later,


----------



## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Damn! Jeff said he was leaving at 10.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

jeff left a bit after 10 but he's coming from ct and I'm in philly. we're meeting up in the middle of pa. So, I need to actually wait a bit otherwise I'll get to our meeting spot way too early.
Would rather sit here in my bed and watch howard stern







.
See ya tomorrow.
Later,


----------



## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

hell yeah. Good idea. I'll might meet you guys at your hotel on my way down tomorrow. Gonna talk to Jeff tomorrow.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_Nate, give us a comparo between your SC and the turbo? I know the next setup I run will be a turbo, just curious how the driveability is (off-throttle bucking/hickuping, etc.), and also wanted to find out if you put a head spacer in (if so, what compression are you running?)
Looks good man...

bdubn...
As promised I told you I'd give you an update on this question you have. I also promised pics but I don't have them up yet (will do soon).
I'm here at Midwest Massiv right now and I've finally gotten my WG plumbed back into the DP AND threw in Jeff's 30# software.
The car is a freakin' rocket! Smooth as silk part throttle, smooth as silk WOT...
Car drives itself in 3rd gear through the parking lot at idle (no foot on gas) with not a buck to be had.
No misfires AT ALL (no misfire codes and no blinking light).
Rock solid idle. Quiet motor with an incredible roar at WOT and a nice burble around town at part throttle.
And as for your Q about the difference b/w turbo and s/c...
The power is much different. It's all in what you want, but I wanted that turbo VR6 and my VF blower just wasn't up to it (no dual idler pulley available for that blower like there is for the v1/v2's).
Amazing.
Jeff's tuning is incredible on this car...
For those running a vr6 turbo, if you haven't contacted c2/jeff atwood about their tuning then you gotta do it now (from what I hear there aren't a bunch of Turbo VR6's out there anymore that don't have it - unless they've got stand-alone)...
Anyway, I'll post pics and a dyno plot (pics first, dyno is soon).
Later,


----------



## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_*UPDATE:*

Had my WG re-routed back into the DP. After a few ppl told me that it really didn't matter much that the WG be close to the Turbo outlet I figured it would be easiest to just have a straight pipe welded from the WG to the DP. Yes, it's close to the turbo but I doubt with all the exhaust coming out that the "puny" WG is gonna mess anything up.
Can I say QUIET???? Holy Schnikies...
I love it. She rips and barely makes any noise except for the turbo whistle and the BOV!
I was a bit disappointed in the welding job as the guy was a bit anxious (it seems) and may have gotten the parts too hot and seemed to have warped it a bit, I had to gingerly put things back together slowly tightening down everything in sequence...what a PITA.
But I'm done now, and I'll be meeting up with Jeff Atwood in a few hours on our way to the Midwest Massiv show to tune the car. She'll be totally done this weekend.
Those engine bay pics that someone asked for? I'll get them up here soon once I get the engine clean. now there is no WG black smoke being blown in. You should see my engine compartment...holy smokes!
Later,


having the dump tube where you have it will cause it to break. mine lasted about a year before it went. you want a flex section in there.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

having the dump tube where you have it will cause it to break. mine lasted about a year before it went. you want a flex section in there. 

I'm curious as to why...b/c the flex section of the dp is BELOW and the DP and the manifold move together with the motor...
That's the whole point of the flex section on the dp. If I welded the dump tube BELOW the flex section on the DP then I can see it breaking.
I mean, maybe I'm missing something...but I see ppl that weld their dump tubes lower but still ABOVE the flex section so the movement is identical there.
What's up? What obvious point am I missing here?
I mean, it's all new to me too...but I thought it through pretty well, I thought?
I mean, I'm thinking this through right now again in my head...and there shouldn't be ANY FLEX at all at those two points where my welds are...the whole motor moves as one piece with both of those weld points being connected to the motor only. The flex section at the bottom of the DP is doing it's job with the exhaust...
?
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

I am pretty sure it has to do with the life of the metal and the expansion due to heat warping. It is really ridged doing it that way, and there is no room for play, so something eventually gives.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_I am pretty sure it has to do with the life of the metal and the expansion due to heat warping. It is really ridged doing it that way, and there is no room for play, so something eventually gives.

Well, I guess only time will tell - I'll have to wait for it to break then get it re-welded.
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Yup, we will see.
In the mean time, I might do the same thing! I like the sound of the open waste gate, but the quite monster is apealing too.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

That thing runs like a bastard! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif now if the door worked right?


----------



## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

looks like Im gonna hafta find another door panel for the C2 "crew"
Nate, you let us about 10 mins too sooon ,just after you pulled in ,we "meet up" with several "stangs" on 71. Two Cobra svt's"modded" went for it ,(they wernt paying any attention to me) I nailed it and they pulled on me hard till i got up in the revs then they were slowly pulling away, but they're making way more hp than me anyway. 


_Modified by mikebobelak at 12:22 PM 6-30-2004_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (mikebobelak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mikebobelak* »_looks like Im gonna hafta find another door panel for the C2 "crew"
Nate, you let us about 10 mins too sooon ,just after you pulled in ,we "meet up" with several "stangs" on 71. Two Cobra svt's"modded" went for it ,(they wernt paying any attention to me) I nailed it and they pulled on me hard till i got up in the revs then they were slowly pulling away, but they're making way more hp than me anyway. 

_Modified by mikebobelak at 12:22 PM 6-30-2004_

The door panel would be great. But I'll IM you if it comes to that. I'm still crawling out like a little snake anyway







.
As for route 71...it effin' figures. Man, I would have been interested in how the cars would do against them...
Anyway, I heard you guys were out til 4am so I guess it was a smart move to leave you guys behind.








And yea Matt, I wish I didn't have to crawl out each time but I'm getting used to it! 
Later,
Later,


----------



## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

Yeah 4am was when we parted ways,i didnt fall asleep till ~4:45ish dead tired, still woke up at 6am







, managed to squeeze in another hour before leaving for the setup. 
So im not really that anti-social,I was just slipping in and out of "zombie" mode all day.
I'll keep an eye out for a door panel, blk/cloth?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

yea mike, black/cloth..I *think* just like yours.
Thanks bud.
Later,


----------



## :Jeremy: (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

where is c2 located? im in NJ and have corrado vr6t that I may want tuned http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## AbqVR6 (Dec 29, 2001)

*Re: (v.vdubb)*

aweome write up, man, i learned alot.
i think alot of us are still waiting for the engine bay shots as well as the vaclines/boostlines etc. so whenever you can that would be great.
its too bad that there isn't this much support for mkIV VRT's....
max


----------



## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (AbqVR6)*

All I can say is this has to be the best thread I have ever read on the Vortex. It took some time to read all of it, yet it was worth it. It was like a great novel a real page turner. I'm glad it worked out for you.


----------



## MarcoVR6SC (May 3, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Well, I guess only time will tell - I'll have to wait for it to break then get it re-welded.
Later,

The reason you need a flexible is for heat warping, when the waste gate opens it gets really hot, when it closes it cools down a bit, and so on. So the WG changes from temperature rapidly and constantly.
Anyway, good job nate http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

Still no pics? I need some of pics, as I need to hook up all my vaccum lines within the next week or so


----------



## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (v.vdubb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *v.vdubb* »_where is c2 located? im in NJ and have corrado vr6t that I may want tuned http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

We can tune your car for you in CT.....Orange CT to be exact. Contact us if we can be of any further help.
Chris
C2


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (vr6chris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6chris* »_Still no pics? I need some of pics, as I need to hook up all my vaccum lines within the next week or so

I promise I'll post pics up before the end of this week.
It's all done, I just wanted to clean the engine up before I take pics...
I've got a busy weekend but hopefully I'll get them up by Monday night, ok?
Sorry for the delay. It's not a complete thread until I show the 100% end result, I know. So, I'll get them up for you.
Later,


----------



## PhOO (May 23, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

ATP dosnt sell their downpipe with a WG reroute already welded in?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (PhOO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhOO* »_ATP dosnt sell their downpipe with a WG reroute already welded in?

No, And I can understand that some ppl might *like* that loud noise w/o it...
But that's why this is BY FAR NOT a complete kit.
I bought everything...the bolt kit with gaskets and everything thinking it would get me closer.
Well, it got me closer to being complete but IMO that's total BS...they should have spent like 5 more hours engineering this kit with that re-route. Just my opinion.
Later,


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Awesome work Nate. I've been in the turbo world now for a few years (1.8t and now srt-4) so if you have any questions I'll be glad to provide some input. I've ridden in a turbo vr6 before and it was by far the best sounding turbo car ever, you're one lucky bastid! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BVAMotorsports (Feb 20, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

So, Nate, can you come up with a list of all of the parts (with part numbers), that made your setup complete? I read through most of the thread, but if I missed where you did this already, please disregard.
Thanks,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (beetlevdubn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *beetlevdubn* »_So, Nate, can you come up with a list of all of the parts (with part numbers), that made your setup complete? I read through most of the thread, but if I missed where you did this already, please disregard.
Thanks,

That's a good idea. Maybe when I've got some serious time to spare I will provide this part list with part numbers (where applicable) and will add it to this thread as that would make for an even better/complete thread.
I'll work on it...slowly. 
But for those that are close to buying and can't wait for that...
I bought my Turbo here on vortex from KILLA and went to ATP for the rest.
I didn't skimp on ANYTHING. Meaning, I got the bolt kit and gaskets (and extra gaskets at that).
So, get everything.
I'll list what I got after I think it over real hard.
But I'm gonna take pics of the vac lines tonight and post them up too.
Sean,
Thanks for the words bro.








Later,


----------



## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
But I'm gonna take pics of the vac lines tonight and post them up too.

any update? i need to do my vaccum lines sometime this week http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

yea, just took pics...will post when I get my tint off my windows







.
TODAY!!!








Sorry! I really meant to get this done earlier this week.
Later,


----------



## Antijuke (Feb 23, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

they are needed








thanx!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Antijuke)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Antijuke* »_they are needed








thanx!

And here they are:

















































































And for good measure, a pic of Jeff Atwood and my car just after we cleaned 'em at midwest massiv (thanks Jeff for the awesome tuning, man







)...

















Does this conclude the "how-to"???
Oh, I'll post up my complete parts list on what I used for this turbo when I get a chance.
Later,


----------



## 95GLS (Dec 16, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

sweet pics man, vac line pics are helpful.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (yokomomma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yokomomma* »_
They also don't have a reroute welded in for the blow off valve. I found out this weekend at the track that it is absolutely necessary to reroute the blow off valve for best performance. Now I have to take my pipes off again and weld on a fitting. 

Yea, I probably should have documented that on this thread here. I've not gotten to it yet but when I do I will post up here for sure with pics!
Later,


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (yokomomma)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yokomomma* »_
They also don't have a reroute welded in for the blow off valve. I found out this weekend at the track that it is absolutely necessary to reroute the blow off valve for best performance. Now I have to take my pipes off again and weld on a fitting. 

Not if you run standalone management. Liberate your car, ditch the MAF!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Somebody had a question as to EXACTLY what I did to clock my turbo...
On this pic:








You see the turbo on the right side...you see the bolts that look like there are flanges attached to every 2 bolts? I think those are 13mm bolts.
Just loosen them up a tad until you can feel it rotate. You don't need to loosen them up much at all. 
After you loosen each bolt a bit it'll turn freely. You don't want to be forcing it so loosen it enough that it turns easily but there's no need to totally pull out the bolts.
That enables you to "clock" the turbo and get that outlet in any position you feel it should be in for your plumbing to match up the best.
I hope I described it well enough for you...
Later,


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

bumpin this to help the dubbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRdublove (Apr 26, 2004)

*Re: (germanrox)*

bringin this great old thread back to the top for the turbo guys, I'll be one soon







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## liquidtension (Mar 25, 2004)

this thread was very helpful ! thanks! and congrats


----------



## IN-FLT (Mar 22, 2003)

*Re: (liquidtension)*

so im sayin nahhh i dont need a turbo ... and then i come across this thread








whyyyy why do i do these things?
GREAT post! Takes all the concerns i had about installing a turbo and throws em out the door!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Yea, It takes time in-flt...but that's about it.
B/c I don't consider myself super mechanically inclined and I did a fine job on it pretty much all by myself.
And by the way, I beat the hell out of my car almost on a daily basis (not for work, for pleasure) and she's holding up very well.
No hoses/clamps coming undone. nothing.
Later,


----------



## vr6ofpain (Feb 5, 2004)

"That thing got a Hemi?"
"Nah, VRT!"


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (vr6ofpain)*

yea Nate took me for a ride in this car.... Wow not only fast, but the car seriously felt perfect. I though i was in my friends stock DE until he got on it. My ATP chip sucks


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 Mole* »_yea Nate took me for a ride in this car.... Wow not only fast, but the car seriously felt perfect. I though i was in my friends stock DE until he got on it. My ATP chip sucks









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks bro!
That's all b/c of the C2 setup. You should have felt it before I had the "correct" c2 chip in there.
Later,


----------



## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

hey nate nice work man i read every page, im in the process of turboing my Mark 4 VR but im going to run a short intake runner if i don't kill the bank







(correct me if im wrong but i see no room for improvement) but anyway i was just wondering can you re-post those picture a larger Size please im having a Little problem seeing them


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I just went thru this entire post. The pics are almost as large as the page. I can't make them any larger otherwise ppl will have to scroll to the right on the bottom of their screen to read the comments.
Which pics are you talking about (that are too small)?
They all look quite large...
Later,


----------



## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

im talking about these pictures


----------



## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

bump


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'm kinda lazy today...so maybe I can help you with something in particular (vacuum line route or something?)...
I'd have to pull these pics up again (from their original location) modify them, then modify the thread a bit...
I'll help you out with it maybe later this week? But I'm sitting here drinking a few brews







and watchin the boob tube.
I'll help you out tuesday or weds?
Or maybe I can email them to you...
shoot me your email and I'll email them to you and you can manipulate them...Yea, that's the best idea.
Shoot me an im with email.








Later,


----------



## StreetRyda (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

Cool, Email sent


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

TTT


















Later,


----------



## FNMOVIN (May 15, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

Is there anyway you could take a pic of where your piping goes coming off of the turbo tot he intercooler. I see the line going to the intake mani I was just wondering where the other ran under car or where.
Thanks


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (FNMOVIN)*

Sure...
Give me a couple days until I get my car back up on the lift...
Do you need these pics immedietly? Or can you wait?
Basically, if you are looking at the car from the FRONT...
You'll see the inlet of the i/c on the right. That pipe is a 180 degree bend that wraps right back behind the i/c.
It then curves just to the drivers side of the oil pan (a few inches), continues straight back and just before the axle it has a 90 degree bend UP which then goes into the turbo.
This is all from what I remember. I'll try and get pics up eventually. I mean, I gotta change my oil soon so when I do that I'll take pics. Is that cool?
Plus, I'll be doing a c2 headspacer and will just add that to this thread as well to make it more comprehensive.
Later,


----------



## FNMOVIN (May 15, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

No rush I just wanted to see how they had the plumbing routed that I couldn't see for future reference. Thanks.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Hey guys...
A bump.
Plus, I wanted to let you all know that I'm doing my 8.5:1 c2 headspacer in the next couple weeks, along with an in-line pump, 42# injectors, and (soon) the trans will be rebuilt with a peloquin and new HD clutch.
I'll take step by step pics for the gasket and add it to this thread...
Just so you all know.
Later,


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Hey guys...
A bump.
Plus, I wanted to let you all know that I'm doing my 8.5:1 c2 headspacer in the next couple weeks, along with an in-line pump, 42# injectors, and (soon) the trans will be rebuilt with a peloquin and new HD clutch.
I'll take step by step pics for the gasket and add it to this thread...
Just so you all know.
Later,

Awesome, keep us posted on things you plan on doing in the future.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Marty,
What I'm really hoping to do is to make this thread a TOTAL DIY on what is involved in installing the turbo. You guys have all made this an amazing thread in the sense that everybody contributed with lots of pics (not just my pics) and with plenty of information w/o getting too far off topic - which is pretty amazing!








But yea, I'll post up lots and lots of pics of what I end up doing so that someone that is just getting involved will see what most turbo ppl END UP doing over the long run. 
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

So, I've received my 8.5:1 head spacer from c2. Thanks chris.








Here it is and ready to go in!!!








I'll update as I progress with the project.
Later,



_Modified by nater at 10:41 PM 10-30-2004_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Motor pulled:
Here's some pics for those that care (but I guess it's all part of the process of building a Turbo vr6







):


















































Enjoy!








I marked EVERYTHING with masking tape and put EVERY SINGLE BOLT/NUT/WASHER into a ziplock bag and marked it with permenant ink for easy installation (I hope







).
I took plenty more pics for my own reference but mostly of various connections, vacuum lines, etc...but I won't bore you with them







.
Later,


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

i had that same joy about a month ago... so much fun lol

if u need any help putting it back in just let me know ill be glad to help


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Thanks man! 
Later,


----------



## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

nater,

didnt even realize it but was that you and jeff changing the injectors in the car in the parkin lot? I came up to you and asked if you needed hrlp but you looked at me kinda weird. Its cool tho. Im sure ill see you next year at mid-west.


----------



## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

lol.... cars running great, time to tear it down and try to make it faster








ahhh funny how that works huh? every time you get it all bolted up and running sweet you decide you need more power like a week later.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (turbojeta3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbojeta3* »_nater,

didnt even realize it but was that you and jeff changing the injectors in the car in the parkin lot? I came up to you and asked if you needed hrlp but you looked at me kinda weird. Its cool tho. Im sure ill see you next year at mid-west.

I didn't know I looked at you weird dude. You could have just said to me, "wtf is that look on your face?". Maybe it was the fact that I didn't feel like changing out injectors right then and there







.
Sorry man, I never even thought about the look I gave you...so it was nothing personal. I guess I just 'look' weird







.
Oh, and there were also some "questionable" folks at that hotel so maybe I just lumped you in with those guys...I don't think so, but maybe I did...If so, I apologize







.
I'll be there next year. As long as it's an annual thing.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_ every time you get it all bolted up and running sweet you decide you need more power like a week later. 

Yea, and just to think...if you use the search and my name for archived posts related to my "pre-FI" questions...you'll see me talking about how I'd rather go S/C b/c I'm looking for "modest power with reliability". I was effed up. 
I don't know but as soon as I got the charger I wanted more, then more, then more...








Damn...will it ever stop?
Later,


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Nate, it never stops. Trust me


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Nater, you have the motor out so why not build it up now and save the hassel down the road.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_Nater, you have the motor out so why not build it up now and save the hassel down the road.

I've been thinking about that but to be honest, pulling the motor wasn't that tough so I don't see it to be a big problem when I *really* need to "fix" it.
So, it's running fine and *seems* tight so I'll leave it be...save the $$$$ and make a good plan over time. When my time comes, it comes...and I'll rebuild it then.
I think that's the reasoning behind my decision and I feel pretty good about it.
It really wasn't that hard to pull the motor. A bit messy, but not bad.
Thanks tho, man!








Later,


----------



## westcoastwhips (Feb 19, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

Wow..awesome thread! Thanks for all the time and effort of all who contributed. I only have one question...What did she dyno?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

No dyno yet...
But there will be in the next month or so when I get it up and running again







.
Stay tuned. I'll post the dyno in here.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok,
Valve cover is off...head comes off on Sunday (damn, I forgot those large head bolts are the 12point snap-on's)...
She looks nice and clean inside, eh?
































Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

So it looks as though my project is on hold for now. See this thread (with pics) for the dirty details.
Damn, I got lucky. It could have been worse. May be a good thing cause now I can build up the motor a bit.

Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Not on hold anymore...
Going 3L (hopefull) courtesy of schimmel performance.
Here's where I'm at now (pistons out of block):
















Later,


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Nate, did you measure the bore?
If you actually are 82mm and the bores are alright, you could drop in some 82mm wiseco pistons and not worry about boring it out to get that extra mm








Save some time and money for sure.
Goodluck,
Lee


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_Nate, did you measure the bore?
If you actually are 82mm and the bores are alright, you could drop in some 82mm wiseco pistons and not worry about boring it out to get that extra mm








Save some time and money for sure.
Goodluck,
Lee









Lee,
I haven't measured yet. Will do soon.
EDIT: And a related thread...

Later,


_Modified by nater at 4:39 PM 11-27-2004_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok,
It's a good day today. Talked to Schimmel (schimmelperformance.com I think) and he'll be doing my motor up for me (3L full bottom end rebuild). It should be done w/in the week b/c he's got a block ready to go.
One HORRIBLE pic of the head in my work truck (still has lower intake manny on) and a good pic of the block...
I'll keep you posted







.

















Later,


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

3 liter plus boost plus HID? Man nater you're the king


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Well,
Add a full head rebuild to my project.









Just so some of you guys that are reading this know...
It's not just buying the turbo/kit...sometimes it's about everything else you end up doing afterwards. 
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Got the motor back.
Here's what I got done:
Schimmel Performance 3L long block complete rebuild with 10.0:1 Forged JE Pistons, 8.5:1 C2 head spacer (so I'm around 8.3:1 CR), 3angle valve job, new valves, seals, guides...
Timing chains redone (refreshed as they were in good shape, new guides and seals).
Transmission:
Total rebuild including a new gear selector (I literally BROKE it in pieces but it stayed together in the trans!!!!) and a new second gear...and new seals, etc...
Added a Peloquin differential in there too!!!
While I was in there I bought a Schimmel Performance HD clutch (6 puck, modified pressure plate for 25% more clamping force...good to 400whp).
I think that's it...
Here's a couple pics of the motor when I got it home yesterday. I've already got most of the accessories on and she's about ready to go in the car.
























Later,


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Got the motor back.
Here's what I got done:
Schimmel Performance 3L long block complete rebuild with 10.0:1 Forged JE Pistons, 8.5:1 C2 head spacer (so I'm around 8.3:1 CR), 3angle valve job, new valves, seals, guides...
Timing chains redone (refreshed as they were in good shape, new guides and seals).
Transmission:
Total rebuild including a new gear selector (I literally BROKE it in pieces but it stayed together in the trans!!!!) and a new second gear...and new seals, etc...
Added a Peloquin differential in there too!!!
While I was in there I bought a Schimmel Performance HD clutch (6 puck, modified pressure plate for 25% more clamping force...good to 400whp).
I think that's it...
Here's a couple pics of the motor when I got it home yesterday. I've already got most of the accessories on and she's about ready to go in the car.








Later,

nate i hate you...... I hope it really is a 3L and hes justn ot pulling your leg, since the head is bolted on and all


----------



## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 Mole* »_
nate i hate you...... I hope it really is a 3L and hes justn ot pulling your leg, since the head is bolted on and all









hahaaha man that would ne so screwed up. Makes you think dont it hahahaha no way. 
Looks good man. Did you ship it or drop it off to him?
Edit: that block needs some spray paint










_Modified by turbojeta3 at 8:34 AM 12-12-2004_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Hah. You guys are funny. Well, I told him after he did the work to bolt it all back up together...and I paid him extra for it. So, he didn't know that I was having him put it all back together when he started the project.
If he did do that, and I pull the motor apart again and find out it would be very bad press for him. And nobody is that dumb to do something like that. 
He's a stand up guy. I'm sure it's actually a 3L.
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Probably more like a 2.97l...depending on how he did it. But everyone rounds up








Ryan


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

Using the 83mm bore, its more like a 2.932 liter







If you want to include the headgasket thickness in the process, then








Cool guys say 2.9 I hear







... kidding.
Good stuff nater


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Why'd you build a 3L with new forged pistons and decide to use a head spacer to lower compression?? Planning on going NA down the line?


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

That was the same thing I was thinking...why not just do it with the pistons?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

Looking good Nate, I had no idea that the gti was down. =( Guess that is what I get for being sent overseas. Hope all goes well and there are more updates! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_Why'd you build a 3L with new forged pistons and decide to use a head spacer to lower compression?? Planning on going NA down the line?

Guys,
I already had the spacer. And the pistons would have been a special order (not that it *really* mattered after the coin I spent anyway...
But I wanted to keep some flexibility...that was my only thought process : flexibility.
B/c who knows what could happen later.
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Low compression forged pistons and standard compression forged pistons are usually both the same price.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_Low compression forged pistons and standard compression forged pistons are usually both the same price.

Well, according to schimmels website there is an extra cost associated with something that isn't "stocked" and plus I already had the c2 lower compression gasket...
Personally, (but I'm no expert) I don't see much of a difference...plus, I STILL wanted the flexibility to go back to stock in the slight event that I sell the car.
And yes, for the ball busters....I know it's not quite 3L but damn close.
Man, you guys are tough







.
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Well, according to schimmels website there is an extra cost associated with something that isn't "stocked" and plus I already had the c2 lower compression gasket...


Good point. The case was the opposite when I bought, the Low Comps were cheaper! 
And I am never going back


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Good point. The case was the opposite when I bought, the Low Comps were cheaper! 
And I am never going back









At this point, I'm sick of selling things to make money for other things. If I went with low comp pistons that nice c2 headspacer would be in my garage for years.







. Thought I'd put it to good use.
Later,


----------



## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
At this point, I'm sick of selling things to make money for other things.,

hahaaahahha thats what we all do.....well most anyway









Get that beast up man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Looking good Nate, I had no idea that the gti was down. =( Guess that is what I get for being sent overseas. Hope all goes well and there are more updates! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


You should see it (get a ride http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) at Mid-West Massive
June 2005....
Nate, you game again this year?
Should be a good trip.
~4 FI VR6's on a ~700mile trip.
1. SC Corrado
2. Obd1 Turbo Golf
3. You
4. Me
~1200whp
We'll probably get some more folks to join the run.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Jeffrey Atwood


----------



## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

You should see it (get a ride http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) at Mid-West Massive
June 2005....
Nate, you game again this year?
Should be a good trip.
~4 FI VR6's on a ~700mile trip.
1. SC Corrado
2. Obd1 Turbo Golf
3. You
4. Me
~1200whp
We'll probably get some more folks to join the run.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Jeffrey Atwood










im game


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

You should see it (get a ride http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) at Mid-West Massive
June 2005....
Nate, you game again this year?
Should be a good trip.
~4 FI VR6's on a ~700mile trip.
1. SC Corrado
2. Obd1 Turbo Golf
3. You
4. Me
~1200whp
We'll probably get some more folks to join the run.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Jeffrey Atwood


Yea, I've already been in touch with Chris about how this is going down this year...
And my wife is already aware of the trip so YES, I'll be there (only reason I wouldn't is if a friend gets married that weekend)...
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Update:
Got the motor in tonight. Should be finishing up tomorrow or Thursday for sure.
Later,


----------



## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

AMAZING!!!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rallyjett (Dec 1, 2004)

*Re: (jamaicula)*

BUMP to an awesome post....
great info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DUB_4_LIFE (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: (rallyjett)*

I wanna see the motor back in....this was one of the most interesting threads i have read on vortex in a while....prolly bc i plan on going turbo in the spring and have been doing nothing but saving and saving and saving


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

The motor is in and most of the wiring/plumbing is back in and she will be running tomorrow (thursday).
My digi cam ran out of "juice" and I've got no replacement batteries but I'll take a pic tomrrow and add it here...
Later,


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Lookin good Nate, keep up the good work. I'll have to make it out to Mid-West Massive next year for sure http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Thanks man.
Update: It is Friday and she's closer to being started up. All electrical connections are done and just have to do turbo plumbing, Downpipe to turbo connection, 'test pipe', front end back on, and connect all coolant hoses.
*should* have it up this weekend. My initial estimate of Thursday was too optimistic b/c I've lost a couple bolts and am having a hard time matching up bolt holes on trans to driveshafts (I'm up on ramps, not on a lift).
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok,
So car is about done but I'm going out tonight so it's gonna have to wait until tomorrow.
One last question:
How can I jack my car up when it's up on ramps already?
I mean, the 4 jack points are right where the ramp is and I can't get my jack in there.
Is there another safe spot that I can use on the front part of the car?
I have one side of the trans bolted up but need to twist the pass side wheel to get the holes to line up there (I think).
Could I just get my engine hoist and pull the front end of the car up by the two "beams" that come out on either side (by each fender)???
Or would they buckle? 
Bentley says, "severe damage may occur if you use other than these 4 points".
So, I don't want to damage my car that bad.
Help.
Later,


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

umm, slide a jack under the car and put a 2x4 on the subframe....jack up the car and then lower it onto jackstands. then you can just jack up the car and remove each stand


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

You should see it (get a ride http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) at Mid-West Massive
June 2005....
Nate, you game again this year?
Should be a good trip.
~4 FI VR6's on a ~700mile trip.
1. SC Corrado
2. Obd1 Turbo Golf
3. You
4. Me
~1200whp
We'll probably get some more folks to join the run.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Jeffrey Atwood


You can for sure count me in on that one!! That is IF I can get home in March! Think we could get me up and running in time?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 Mole* »_umm, slide a jack under the car and put a 2x4 on the subframe....jack up the car and then lower it onto jackstands. then you can just jack up the car and remove each stand

Subframe is what the motor mounts, ball joints, etc are all mounted to, correct?
And before I do it, I can put the jackstands on the subframe too, right?
Just wanna make sure. I know Bentley isn't God but since it says NOTHING at all about any other spot on the car I wanna make sure.
So, with what you are saying I could lift both sides of the car up off the ramps using the middle of the subframe, correct?
Later,


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

I dont see why not nater... good luck.
BTW nice work on all this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_I dont see why not nater... good luck.
BTW nice work on all this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Thanks man. I'm learning a lot. I wish I took as many pics as I did earlier in this thread about the engine removal/install...
I can't wait to get this all done. And here I am sitting in front of my computer... 
Thanks for the help.
Later,


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

yea i would jack up the center of the sub frame... sorta right behind the steering rack. And then put the jackstands either on that, or on the metal "strips" that are about a foot long that branch off of it.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 Mole* »_yea i would jack up the center of the sub frame... sorta right behind the steering rack. And then put the jackstands either on that, or on the metal "strips" that are about a foot long that branch off of it.

Thanks. Done.
Car is back together with fluids. Front end is back on...
Intercooler piping and downpipe need to be installed tomorrow...And that depends on how late I sleep then the eagles are on at 1pm. 
Then after the game I'll be too drunk to work on it - so Sunday may be a wash.
For some reason I'm still nervous about cranking this biatch over for the first time in so long. I know schimmel knows what he's doing....but I'm still nervous.








Later,


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

That's funny, because this entire last few days I've been completely tearing apart mine! Entire kit is off, and stock gasket is back in.







Smog time baby.


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_That's funny, because this entire last few days I've been completely tearing apart mine! Entire kit is off, and stock gasket is back in.







Smog time baby.

sucks to be in LA


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_sucks to be in LA









Small price to pay for SoCal.


----------



## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Thanks. Done.
Car is back together with fluids. Front end is back on...
Intercooler piping and downpipe need to be installed tomorrow...And that depends on how late I sleep then the eagles are on at 1pm. 
Then after the game I'll be too drunk to work on it - so Sunday may be a wash.
For some reason I'm still nervous about cranking this biatch over for the first time in so long. I know schimmel knows what he's doing....but I'm still nervous.








Later,
Don't confuse being nervous with being anxious. We can't wait either. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

good luck with the start up on this beast! And I thought it was fun before, can not wait to see this thing now!


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_For some reason I'm still nervous about cranking this biatch over for the first time in so long. I know schimmel knows what he's doing....but I'm still nervous.


Multiply that by about 10 when you build it yourself! I was shaking...


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Multiply that by about 10 when you build it yourself! I was shaking...

Yea, I was just thinking that the other day...what if I HAD actually literally built the motor myself? I would be very nervous. Which is exactly why I had schimmel do it. This isn't the motor to "learn" how to rebuild a motor on. I'd rather do that on something a bit less important to me.
Cranking this thing over and having the timing 180deg's off would have killed me.







Especially if I did it myself.
Update:
I didn't get ANYTHING done on it yesterday...actually, strike that. I "primed" the oil system by cranking it over once with the main harness unplugged and spark plugs not screwed in...
It turned over, and no clanging noises so that's good.
I should try and finish up today but I'm battling a bad cold/flu/or strep.
I'll be taking more pics today and posting up.
Later,


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*



nater said:


> Cranking this thing over and having the timing 180deg's off would have killed me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I know punk







.
I mean, I changed my cams and all and had to use that tool. 
But still...getting involved in that stuff will be my 'next' step (if it ever comes to it). Hopefully it won't.
Later on,
Oh, and I'll see you on Rt 100 soon







(err, I'll look in my rearview for you)







.


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Oh, and I'll see you on Rt 100 soon







(err, I'll look in my rearview for you)







.


well im sure youll see the TDI in your mirror but once march rolls around youll see this red blur fly by you. then youll be like " was that matts Jetta on a flat bed?'


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_I know punk







.
I mean, I changed my cams and all and had to use that tool. 


Haha, what tool??? 
You don't need it. You can eye-ball it, the chain is pretty large.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Haha, what tool??? 
You don't need it. You can eye-ball it, the chain is pretty large.

Naaa....I didn't eyeball it and won't next time.
I'm talking about the flat cam alignment tool on the pulley side of the motor...
If I was to pull the chain off again I would mark the chain and the sprockets and make sure it went back on in that spot like that...but first I'd put the motor at TDC just in case something 'weird' happened.
Later,


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_

I should try and finish up today but I'm battling a bad cold/flu/or strep.
Later,


Have this ish too, sucks, hope you feel better, antiBs are they only things that help.


----------



## vrturbojake (Sep 23, 2002)

*Re: (veedub11)*

Good post Nater, It's been good info and cool to see as things go on. Sucks the result you had after the first motor, new motor should be sick.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Naaa....I didn't eyeball it and won't next time.
I'm talking about the flat cam alignment tool on the pulley side of the motor...
If I was to pull the chain off again I would mark the chain and the sprockets and make sure it went back on in that spot like that...but first I'd put the motor at TDC just in case something 'weird' happened.
Later,

Fair enough. But, just for kicks, next time you are in there turn the sprockets one tooth in either direction from where they are supposed to be and look at how much different it is. It is pretty noticable.
Also, with the C2 spacer, it kinda messes up that alignment, not by much, but if you are running the 8.5:1 it makes a difference.
And definitely put it at TDC when you do it, you kinda have to in order to get the little tool for the slots to work. 
Ryan


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (veedub11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub11* »_

Have this ish too, sucks, hope you feel better, antiBs are they only things that help.

Yea, I probably should have gone to the doc. Thanks man.

_Quote, originally posted by *VW Jetta VRSEXXX* »_Good post Nater, It's been good info and cool to see as things go on. Sucks the result you had after the first motor, new motor should be sick.

Thanks for the kudos man. Well, I look at the isht luck on the first motor as a nice way to get my 3L motor done







. So, while it cost money it's not like I'm hating life b/c that money is gone







. It's not like I spent a few grand on body work b/c some drunk hit me. 
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_
Fair enough. But, just for kicks, next time you are in there turn the sprockets one tooth in either direction from where they are supposed to be and look at how much different it is. It is pretty noticable.
Also, with the C2 spacer, it kinda messes up that alignment, not by much, but if you are running the 8.5:1 it makes a difference.
And definitely put it at TDC when you do it, you kinda have to in order to get the little tool for the slots to work. 
Ryan

I have noticed the difference just when I pulled the head off...I just get a bit weary even thinking about the timing on an interference engine...especially after I got it built







.
I'll work into it soon, I suppose...
Thanks too man.
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

VR is non-interfere, unless you are still running some crazy cams. 
But with that spacer, it is probably still a non-interfering engine.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_VR is non-interfere, unless you are still running some crazy cams. 
But with that spacer, it is probably still a non-interfering engine.

Well, not crazy. But DSR 256's.
I don't know why I thought it was an interference...I thought someone told me that a while ago...So, If I were to get the timing completely wrong I wouldn't bend a rod or ruin something? That's good to know







.
EDIT: I figure I wouldn't bend a rod, rather damage a piston and definitely bend some valves... duh.
Ok, so give me a vr6 and let me put new chains on it!








Later,


_Modified by nater at 9:25 PM 12-21-2004_


----------



## 96jettasexer (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

thats perty! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (96jettasexer)*

im almost 99.9% sure that the VR6 is an interface engine meaning that the pistons can come in contact with the valves. I have a head off right now and the valves pop out at least 1/4 inch. The piston at the highest part sits level with the deck of the block.
cars that have combustion in the head such as a crossflow are non interference i think. Reason being that since combsution happens in the head the valves are farther away from the pistons to begin with.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

The pistons are indented to allow the valves to interfere. That 0.01% of non-sureness should me more like 100%.


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_The pistons are indented to allow the valves to interfere. That 0.01% of non-sureness should me more like 100%.

the pistons are dished in order to provide the 10.1:1 compression. so your saying if i buy high compression pistons then my motor will be interference?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (JETTSET)*

The motor is interference in that if your timing chain breaks you will smash your valves. Done.


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_The motor is interference in that if your timing chain breaks you will smash your valves. Done.

Or if you jump your timing chain...







yea that sucked...


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_The pistons are indented to allow the valves to interfere. That 0.01% of non-sureness should me more like 100%.

nah actually my .01% of non-sureness should now be 0%. Im right your wrong.








we all make mistakes, life goes on.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Guess I bent all my valves when I was turning my cams the last time I was putting my chains back on.
You are saying the pistons are dented in the shape of valves in order to raise compression? They would have made them flat topped pistons if they wanted even better compression.
So, still not believin'. But whatever, my car works, nate's will soon again as well and I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas tomorrow.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_ But whatever, my car works, nate's will soon again as well and I hope everyone has a Merry Christmas tomorrow.

Nate's will soon again as well... I hope







.

Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Another thread to take a look at as I'm having a hard time getting her to run now that the motors' in and everything is 'done'.
You can skip down to the last thread dated 12/24 for the update...
And if you can offer any assistance I would appreciate it!















Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Need some more tech help guys... but I got it started and running.
Just a little concerned about my oil light that came on...and need a way to check oil pressure. Check that other thread for my specific question.
Thanks!








Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Ok, 
An update (and to get this thread a bit more back on-topic for what it was meant to be)...
I did two things worth noting:
1) Re-routed my BOV back into my intake to eliminate compressor surge.
2) Had an o2 bung welded into my "test pipe".
Here are the pics:

3L Schimmel rebuild with 10.0:1 Forged Pistons, C2 8.5:1 Gasket, Head rebuild with HD valve springs, Peloquin with Trans rebuild:









Intake tube (that 90deg elbow goes right into the turbo inlet):








I just got that pipe cut at Home Depot. I think it's 1" OD or close to it.

Nothing fancy, but this pic shows the bung I had welded into my 'test pipe'.








And from the thread show above, here is my last post which should have fixed a couple electrical problems I have had recently. To summarize, the first problem was electrical shorts on the wiring harness connected to the injectors, oil pressure switches, and TPS. Second problem occured b/c I messed something while fixing the first, and it caused my high pressure (20psi) switch to malfunction (showing no oil pressure at high rpms)... Here's my entire last post on that thread:
Ok, 
So this post is two fold in nature. Just throwing in some pics of the previous "problem" I had and the fix (which I'll put below) and to update you on my current "problem" (oil pressure 'issue').
While I've still got the car apart (well, front end off) I noticed that the left pressure switch (I think it's called the 20psi "dynamic Oil Pressure Switch") with the yellow wire was totally disconnected.
And I guess it's somewhat related to my earlier fix so I'll post those pics right now and show you guys what I did (to fix the last electrical problem, and to cause this low oil pressure malfunction problem







)...








This picture just above shows these three wires that come up between the fuel rail and the lower intake manifold that are actually the wires that go to the oil filter housing switches. As you can see, somehow they got pulled out and I layed the upper intake manifold on top of them and torqued it down, crushing all three of them to the point where I had all sorts of electrical gremlins with that short.








Above pic just shows another pic.








Above pic shows I just cut the "bad part" out and since there was more wire left (slack) I just soldered them back together (I cut out about a 1/2").








Above pic shows the tubing I found at Sears Hardware that I used to make it nice and oem-looking.








Above pic shows final result. Just wrapped the wire with the tubing and then threw some red electrical tape on top of it.
So, as you all know when I did that work I must have pulled those wires too hard...so hard that I pulled the connector off of the high pressure dynamic oil switch (yellow wire, black sensor on the left on the oil filter housing)...
I decided the quickest way to get down there with my big hands was actually to pull the front end off. I'm getting to be very good at it. It took about 15 mins incl pulling i/c piping off w/o the car being up on stands...not bad (at least IMO)...

















Above pics show how I just pulled the front end off and the lower radiator (left side) bolt out - plus the a/c condensor line (left and upper right). This allowed me to just open it up like a door...easy access to the oil filter housing and w/in two mins I was able to see this(below):








Not a bad pic but you have to really look for it.
You can easily see the top/rear sender where I tapped my oil for the turbo (in the back)...
You will also see (peeking up over the black tube) is a brass connector all by itself with no wire connected.
That is the dynamic (20psi) switch that is SUPPOSED to have the yellow wire connected to it.
Obviously, that is my problem.
Thought you guys would like to see what I've been up to.

Later,



_Modified by nater at 4:14 PM 8-24-2005_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Well,
I put the front end back on and she fired up. Once it warmed up a tad I revved it to above 2k rpms which is when the bentley says that high pressure switch turns on...
Looks like everything is fine and it actually just was that wire that was disconnected.
Whew.
Now to wait for my atp gaskets (thursday) to fix my exhaust leak and I"ll be breaking in the car on friday.
Will post up finished pics then with impressions of the 3L motor, new clutchnet (I think) clutch, and peloquin with rebuilt trans....

Later,


----------



## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

can't wait! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What a great way to bring in the "New Year"!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Now to wait for my atp gaskets (thursday) to fix my exhaust leak and I"ll be breaking in the car on friday.
Later,

Actually, I see no need to wait to break it into b/c of some silly gaskets. As soon as I get the crap outta my eyes (just woke up) I'm taking her out and am gonna break 'er in.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I put about 75 miles on it this morn/afternoon and the car runs great. I didn't get into boost (except for a couple "mistakes" but only maybe 2psi).
Car runs very strong. When decellerating in gear I get In Hg vacuum of like 28.
Idles close to 20. Feels real tight...
And the motor when revved to about 2k rpms has a sweet tone to it. 
It's awesome. Oh, re-routed (as you can see from pics above) the BOV back into the intake and the car has NEVER shifted (motor-wise) smoother.
And of course, the schimmel rebuilt trans feels smooth as silk.
Clutch is super stock feeling but grabs like hell.
Peloquin,
Well, I haven't got into it enough to feel it. But I don't even know it's there (for now).
Just thought I'd share.
Later,


----------



## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

This is one of the few times you want to put as many miles on your turbo car as possible. I have always planned on making a long road trip drive to break in a new motot. FL is much warmer than PA I am told.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Yea,
I put 110 miles on her today...back roads and highway runs at 0 boost and below. RPM's varying but topping out occasionally at 5k. 
No long road trip planned but she'll be broken in (basically) tomorrow.
I'm gonna post a pic of what my boost guage reads at idle so you guys can see (on my next post - gotta upload it to my website)...
And tell me what you think it means. It's reading 12-14vacuum at idle. 
That may just be due to the fact that she's not broken in or being that I lowered compression, or even that it's a 3L...or some combo of all three.
My best guess would be that it's just not even close to broken in.
I actually thought tho that the rings would have seated to a degree where that number didn't look too far off...
Any input on this is greatly appreciated.
Pic post to follow...
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Boost guage at idle after 110 miles of driving new motor...

















Later,


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Hey Nate, forgive me if you've covered this previously, but why did you get 10:1 Pistons and use a headspacer instead of just getting 8.5:1 pistons to start with?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_Hey Nate, forgive me if you've covered this previously, but why did you get 10:1 Pistons and use a headspacer instead of just getting 8.5:1 pistons to start with?

Good question.
Answer is that I already had the C2 spacer. Remember what brought about this whole motor rebuild is that I pulled the head off (to put the spacer on) and found the spark plug pieces that melted and fell into the piston.
So, the only JE pistons I could get "off the shelf" w/o paying out the arse for custom ones was 10.0:1 and 9.0:1 and I wanted the 8.5:1....
So, I just used the headgasket so that I didn't have to worry about selling it for a loss. Plus, who knows what the future brings? I wasn't totally sure that I would want the 8.5:1 forever and getting pistons like that kinda seals the deal.
I probably won't ever go back but you get the gist. Plus, I've heard nothing really bad about the spacers so it didn't matter too much to me.







Cool?
Later,


----------



## 500+whpgti (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

lets dyno it at xotic motorsports in concranville


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Good question.
Answer is that I already had the C2 spacer. Remember what brought about this whole motor rebuild is that I pulled the head off (to put the spacer on) and found the spark plug pieces that melted and fell into the piston.
So, the only JE pistons I could get "off the shelf" w/o paying out the arse for custom ones was 10.0:1 and 9.0:1 and I wanted the 8.5:1....
So, I just used the headgasket so that I didn't have to worry about selling it for a loss. Plus, who knows what the future brings? I wasn't totally sure that I would want the 8.5:1 forever and getting pistons like that kinda seals the deal.
I probably won't ever go back but you get the gist. Plus, I've heard nothing really bad about the spacers so it didn't matter too much to me.







Cool?
Later,

Spacers just kill the design of the VR6 combustion chamber (squish, swirl, etc). Spacers are just the cheap solution. When possible, do it with the pistons.


----------



## streetracermtb (Dec 26, 2004)

I hope you get your boost problem fixed. what was involved with rerouting the bov into the intake? does it still make sound?


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_
Spacers just kill the design of the VR6 combustion chamber (squish, swirl, etc). Spacers are just the cheap solution. When possible, do it with the pistons.

I have low compression pistons, and I am pretty sure that the altered design of the top of the piston, as well as the lower profile messes up the design as well.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (streetracermtb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetracermtb* »_I hope you get your boost problem fixed. what was involved with rerouting the bov into the intake? does it still make sound?

Maybe I'm forgetting something (this is a long thread, I know







) but I dont' remember having a boost problem (unless you are just talking about my setup in general)...
Re-routing the BOV into the intake just meant getting a 1" ID pipe welded into my pipe that leads right into the turbo inlet (there is a pic farther up on this page showing the piece that was welded).
Then get a piece that screws into the BOV (greddy type s bov has some threads at the top where it "blows off")...screw it in, then attach the two pieces via hose like I did and you're done.
It doesn't make that distinctive blowing off noise when shifting but I could give a rats arse.







But it's smoother than ever at shifting, soooo much better.
Oh, and as for Marty...I kinda thought it was a "cheap fix" and wasn't quite the perfect way to do things but to be honest I didn't really care enough...The main limiting factor was worrying about going back to some other CR and not being able to do it... Guys, I know this has been a long thread and lots of ppl are viewing it and all, and that I have spent a lot of money on this motor so far...so I apologize for "cheaping out" on the CR but I just had to do it. But I'll never know the difference anyway (no other experience with 8.5:1 pistons anyway).
Later,


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_I have low compression pistons, and I am pretty sure that the altered design of the top of the piston, as well as the lower profile messes up the design as well.


Clearly, you cannot lower the compression with different pistons without changing something and thus the design. However the important difference is that that raised edge of the piston still comes right up to the head surface as designed, forcing air to leave that area quickly resulting in the swirl and mixing as design. When you stick a 1/8" head spacer in there instead, you have drastically reduced the dynamic compression in that corner to the point where there is likely very little forced swirl compared to the previous scenario.


----------



## GKONYA (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_
Clearly, you cannot lower the compression with different pistons without changing something and thus the design. However the important difference is that that raised edge of the piston still comes right up to the head surface as designed, forcing air to leave that area quickly resulting in the swirl and mixing as design. When you stick a 1/8" head spacer in there instead, you have drastically reduced the dynamic compression in that corner to the point where there is likely very little forced swirl compared to the previous scenario.

Functionally, would this make any noticeable difference to afr or performance? On your best guess. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (GKONYA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GKONYA* »_Functionally, would this make any noticeable difference to afr or performance? On your best guess. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

IMO, it likely leads to less homogenous temperatures and combusion in the chamber, resulting in less energy release and more frequent detonation. How much so compared to pistons? Probably depends on how far you push it. I ran a head spacer just because I knew I'd be taking the car back to stock some day. If nater plans on going NA some day, he made a good choice. However if it just builed down to having the spacer on hand and not having a preference, I think it could have been done better.


----------



## streetracermtb (Dec 26, 2004)

nater:
I'm new to the turbo process so sorry if my questions are stupid, heheh. I'm curious to as how rerouting the bov makes shifting smoother. Does it have to do with vaccume pressure?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (streetracermtb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetracermtb* »_nater:
I'm new to the turbo process so sorry if my questions are stupid, heheh. I'm curious to as how rerouting the bov makes shifting smoother. Does it have to do with vaccume pressure?

Well, I guess it depends on the tuning. But the 42# c2 chip needs you to reroute the bov.
Just trust me, it makes it sooooo much smoother.
If you have a turbo then reroute the bov and see for yourself.
Maybe some of the other guys can help explain exactly why...but it's all good man...

_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_
I ran a head spacer just because I knew I'd be taking the car back to stock some day. If nater plans on going NA some day, he made a good choice. However if it just builed down to having the spacer on hand and not having a preference, I think it could have been done better.

Well, I don't know if I'll be taking the car back to stock someday. Thats my main reason for using the spacer...
But to be honest as well...
It may have been easier to just keep the spacer I had on hand, as well as the lack of knowledge I had on the differences b/w low comp pistons and low comp head gaskets.
And, to top it off...
I still could care about the difference b/c the car pulls like a mother ****!r.








Laterk


_Modified by nater at 12:21 AM 12-31-2004_


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
And, to top it off...
I still could care about the difference b/c the car pulls like a mother ****!r.










Fo shizzle. I assume it's all back together with the turbo now?


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

My guess on the smoother shift is that rerouting the bov prevents the car from going 'rich' in between shifts. AKA, you dump off to atmosphere a quantity of metered air that the maf registers as going into the motor, and fuel is matched for that air that never makes it








I take it you are getting back into boost already Nater?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Marty/Lee...
Yea, I put another 150 miles on it yesterday staying out of boost...A total of about 300 miles on the fresh motor.
Towards the end of the day I planned on "short shifting" at say, 4800rpms and not worrying about "modulating the throttle".
So, I kept the rev's down (as I promised myself) but layed into it down low and can I just say HOLY FOCKERS!!!








Keep in mind, nothing (as far as boost) has changed with this motor and I can say right off the bat that the car is waaaaay faster/more powerful than it was before at the same boost. You should feel it at boost in 4th gear on the hwy. It's scary fast.
I knew that boring it out would make a difference but with the turbo it must have made a bigger difference. My butt dyno says I should have gained maybe 30+ WHP by getting it bored out (not a bad deal considering it would have cost me the same to rebuild it to stock).
Plus, my head turned out to be in pretty bad shape so maybe it was never that fast to begin with (it sure felt fast before tho







).
I've been taking care of the clutch tho so I'm fully engaging the clutch before getting into any boost (I never really get into it anyway until it's fully engaged since I don't race much)...
But I can also tell you that I AM starting to "feel" the peloquin and man is it nice.








Clutch is a no ishter, stock-feeling clutch yet it grabs awesome! I had to get my car up on my oil change ramps and I used to have to ride it a bit to get it up but I just engaged this clutch and it went right up the ramps...grabs like a biatch.
Guys, I'm actually a bit concerned about turning up the boost. I'm not really getting traction in 2nd gear (at part throttle-foot about 1/4 to 1/2 the way down) so I know that when I turn it up to 15 it'll be insane.
Like there aren't many spots where I would feel comfortable using that 15 psi except on the hwy.








Scary fast is good. I guess that was the point.
I'm just amazed at how much faster this car is with the rebuilt motor. 
Even with my cheesy spacer







. lol
Anyway, as I turn up boost I'll be updating the thread...
For those of you that have followed this thread from post one (that were clueless like me) it is a known fact that turbo's don't just cost what the "kits" cost. They end up costing much much more.
I had heard it before, and now I'm preaching it.
Even w/o the crazy engine rebuild (which technically I didn't need) I'm still in the range of $7k since this turbo was bought. 
Rebuilt trans with peloquin and HD clutch cost some coin..add in the motor and I think I'm around $9k now (just adding in tires too)...
So, you guys were right.
I'll be adding my Walbro (just picked up yesterday from Scott Williams) and will be installing soon and when I do I'll do a picture write up on that and add it to this post.
I'll also be going up to see Jeff Atwood and we'll be doing some fine tuning for the 42# chip (specific for my car) and I'll get it dyno'd then and will post that up here as well. Then hopefully this thread will be "complete" (finally).
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_My guess on the smoother shift is that rerouting the bov prevents the car from going 'rich' in between shifts. AKA, you dump off to atmosphere a quantity of metered air that the maf registers as going into the motor, and fuel is matched for that air that never makes it









Yea, I think that's it Lee. And it feels so much better. I used to have lots of backfires/misfires b/w shifts and not anymore. Much less compressor surge as well.
I don't care about the following statement but some of you will: With the bov re-routed it doesn't make that nice blow off noise anymore. More stealth for me so I don't care.
Later,


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Nice. Out of curiosity, have you done a compression test on the new motor?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Marty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Marty* »_Nice. Out of curiosity, have you done a compression test on the new motor?

No. I should probably learn how to do that, eh?
I'd be curious to see how it 'changes' as it breaks in...
Although I put another 150 miles on it today...it's pretty close to broken in now







...
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

I just did a compression test on my 2.9L with the pistons pictured above, come out between 90-95 in all six. Not sure what that means up here at 7000ft, but it is lower than expected I think. I can run 18lbs of boost, and probably a lot more with that compression.


----------



## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*

What's the latest nater?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jamaicula)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamaicula* »_What's the latest nater?

Well,
I've been having a problem with the car stalling A LOT. And it's running extremely rich at idle (when it stays idling).
It's almost like a vacuum tube is disconnected (but it's not) or a boost tube is leaking (which I dont' think it is).
I idled the car last night and did the following test on the MAF and TPS:
Disconnected the MAF with TPS still connected: No reaction. 
Plugged MAF back in, then out, then back in again while engine running: Nothing. Like it didn't exist.
Disconnected the TPS with MAF plugged in/out: Car stalled out.
Drove car with MAF disconnected and it drove identical to the way it was driving before.
Only MAF-related code is "maf signal too high" not the too low code.
My initial thought is that it's a problem with my MAF wiring which I'll check later today or tomorrow...then clean the MAF. In the event that it's still acting up I'll find a new maf.
I'll keep you all in the loop.
Later,


----------



## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

great info, definetly going to use it in my turbo project


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Glad I can help, tuner. I wished I had somethin like this when I started.
But plenty of ppl chimed in on this thread to help me.
Later,


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

Would unplugging the MAF during idle make a difference? Doesn't it just read off of a table if the MAF goes away?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_Would unplugging the MAF during idle make a difference? Doesn't it just read off of a table if the MAF goes away? 

I'm not sure. But I drove it and nothing changed either.
So, it's like the MAF wasn't there (according to the car) so I'm almost sure there is something in the MAF or wiring to the MAF that is bad.
Keep in mind guys...that I've had the VF supercharger in the past - and with the extended MAF housing being so far away from the stock location and the expensive kit not supplying a 'real' harness...I had to extend it myself and may have made a bad connection that finally crapped out.
When it stops raining I'll take it out for a spin...probably over the weekend - of course, after checking the wiring for problems. For some odd reason I'm not in a real rush.
Later,


----------



## sims159914 (May 14, 2003)

hey nater i live right in exton and im in the process of turboing my 2.0 i might hit you up in the near future for some of your knowledge


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (sims159914)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sims159914* »_hey nater i live right in exton and im in the process of turboing my 2.0 i might hit you up in the near future for some of your knowledge

Sure man. Just send me an email and we'll talk, or meet up.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

*Update*:
So I tested my MAF sensor wiring and found a couple things...
Check it out and add your thoughts if you can (theres pics there







)...

Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_Would unplugging the MAF during idle make a difference? Doesn't it just read off of a table if the MAF goes away? 

I'm posting my update...but I just wanted to answer your specific question man..
After I got the MAF fixed (wiring) unplugging the maf during idle makes a noticeable difference. I mean, it settles down but there is a surge and a definite bounce in the idle every time you unplug it. 
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

I fixed it just be replacing the 111 relay (relay for secondary air injection pump) which is right behind the battery on the drivers' side (mk3) and is attached close to the strut tower.
So, I'm not sure if it was the maf sensor itself that was bad or the wiring or a combination of the two as I "fixed" it all at the same time.
Car is smooooooooth as silk now and running fast as balls. And only on 9lbs of boost. That 3L motor really made a difference!!!!








Later,


----------



## TSRgeneral (Sep 27, 2004)

ok.. do you need to Run a maf ? my my project.. im goin to run SDS EIC fueling so where would i put my maf ? im not sure


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (TSRgeneral)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSRgeneral* »_ok.. do you need to Run a maf ? my my project.. im goin to run SDS EIC fueling so where would i put my maf ? im not sure

That would be a question for another thread...
Later,


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (TSRgeneral)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TSRgeneral* »_ok.. do you need to Run a maf ? my my project.. im goin to run SDS EIC fueling so where would i put my maf ? im not sure

i really dont think your should be messing with standalone. but correct me if im wrong but im 99.99999% sure you done rrun a MAF... actually make that 100% sure..
u run a MAP sensor tapped into the intake manfold. and tune off that. I think you can also tune off the throttle postion sensor or somthing


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (VR6 Mole)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6 Mole* »_
i really dont think your should be messing with standalone. but correct me if im wrong but im 99.99999% sure you done rrun a MAF... actually make that 100% sure..


Mole you noob. Hes not running a full ems system. EIC - extra injector controller. Its like spraying a couple extra injector(s) that are turned 'on' by a boost sensitive switch.
Come to the SFL gtg so I can slap you in person


----------



## VR6 Mole (Jun 2, 2002)

*Re: (leebro61)*


_Quote, originally posted by *leebro61* »_Mole you noob. Hes not running a full ems system. EIC - extra injector controller. Its like spraying a couple extra injector(s) that are turned 'on' by a boost sensitive switch.
Come to the SFL gtg so I can slap you in person









im sorry... i got onwed







please forgive me... and i am going


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (bmxcorrado)*

TTT
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (bmxcorrado)*

crap


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

hey nater, when you had the motor rebuilt did he put in all new rods, and a new crank? or did you just get the 83mm pistons and new rings, and bearings i assume.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_hey nater, when you had the motor rebuilt did he put in all new rods, and a new crank? or did you just get the 83mm pistons and new rings, and bearings i assume.

Same crank, reman'd rods (whatever that means)...
Later,


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

Alright. Thanks Alot!http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote »_And tell me what you think it means. It's reading 12-14vacuum at idle.

I regaurds to this, you have cams, they will lower your vac. Depending on temperature mine is anywhere from 10-14 at idle, and at the lowest 16 while coasting in gear. I don't *think* I've got a vac leak and I sure as hell don't feel like chasing one down that may or may not exist.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Same crank, reman'd rods (whatever that means)...
Later,

Remachined, so that the new hardware would work with the rods. They shave a few thousands off the rod caps, put the bolts in, torque them down, then machine so they are perfectly circular again.
Ryan


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_
I regaurds to this, you have cams, they will lower your vac. Depending on temperature mine is anywhere from 10-14 at idle, and at the lowest 16 while coasting in gear. I don't *think* I've got a vac leak and I sure as hell don't feel like chasing one down that may or may not exist.

If that was my quote you were responding to I figured that one out actually. Maybe I forgot to post it up here...
But I had a vac leak, now I'm getting the usual 18-20.
Later,


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*

Where abouts was it, and how did you track it down?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (.:VRT:.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.:VRT:.* »_Where abouts was it, and how did you track it down?

I can't remember, but I had a bit of my vac tube routing all effed up. Big time!








Later,


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

nater, (or anyone) what head gasket do i need to use when boring it to the 3L? also if i used shrick 248 cams can i still keep the same spgins and lifters?


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

I am going to assume that a stock head gasket can be used for a 3.0L. I used a stock one on my 2.9, and there was still room before the gasket started to overhang the cylinder.
Just assuming here, hopefully someone can back me up with a 3.0.
Ryan


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_I am going to assume that a stock head gasket can be used for a 3.0L. I used a stock one on my 2.9, and there was still room before the gasket started to overhang the cylinder.
Just assuming here, hopefully someone can back me up with a 3.0.
Ryan

Well, I've got the c2 8.5:1 gasket which is standard bore...but maybe that has something to do with the weird problems I am having with compression and some stumbling...
But I'm using it and mines a 3L.
Later,


----------



## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
Well, I've got the c2 8.5:1 gasket which is standard bore...but maybe that has something to do with the weird problems I am having with compression and some stumbling...
But I'm using it and mines a 3L.
Later,

Well, with an 83mm bore, you are only adding an additional mm in each direction from the center of the bore. I think the headgasket would leave you plenty of space when going from a 81mm bore up through an 83, if not even more.








Besides, I've never heard of a special headgasket for overbored motors, so I don't think that is your problem


----------



## vdub speed (Dec 26, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

very good post


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

well altoa good info on here but still got another question. right now im building a 3L VRT with a big valve head. (42 in 36 ex) and i was gonna run cat 256's. i want to run C2 stg 2 software with 42# injectors. will it run lean with 256's? or will the 42# injectors be enough fuel for the mixture?










_Modified by EternalXresT at 1:24 AM 4-8-2005_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_well altoa good info on here but still got another question. right now im building a 3L VRT with a big valve head. (42 in 36 ex) and i was gonna run cat 256's. i want to run C2 stg 2 software with 42# injectors. will it run lean with 256's? or will the 42# injectors be enough fuel for the mixture?









_Modified by EternalXresT at 1:24 AM 4-8-2005_

The only way that cams would make your 42# setup run lean is if you were running high enough boost to break the 400hp mark...
It's not how much boost and what you have done to your motor...it's how much hp the injectors are trying to support.
Later,


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

thanks alot man, also do you have a pictures of where you tapped the oil pan? i saw a pic of it done but where is that on the pan?


----------



## KVR6turbo (Sep 22, 2003)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

Make sure that the big valve head is built right, because the valve seats drop and you will damage the motor. My expereience from a schrick big valve head.








But with the DSR 256 and bigvalve 3years ago my car made 325whp on 9psi without proper tuning with a 2.5 in exhaust.
So it can make a s*** load of power


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

yeah im working with a race engine builder (fletchers competition engines) and i got eurospec valves, hd springs, titanium retainers. def will be built right. i think im gonna run the Cat 256's. hopefully make some good power. Plus im gonna run 16-18psi with 3'' and i wanna go with the C2 software


_Modified by EternalXresT at 11:17 PM 4-10-2005_


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

nevermind i found a picture that showed where it was. how long was your oil feed line? how long was your return line?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

I dont' know how long they are...If I could guess I'd say oil feed is about 45 inches or so....maybe more.
Return is much shorter...maybe 25-30 tops.
Later,


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

the kit from the ATP site for oil return says the line for return is 18'' but im not sure of the feed line.


----------



## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_ Plus im gonna run 16-18psi with 3'' and i wanna go with the C2 software




Are you in Connecticut?
Bring the car by the shop, In Hamden, for a little custom tuning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

-Jeff


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

definately, when the cars at that point i was going to find a place. Im right in milford. as of now im doing the head work, when pistons come in ill do the bottom end put everything together and put all the turbo stuff on, then onto the body work i go. install everything and then onto tuning. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EternalXresT* »_the kit from the ATP site for oil return says the line for return is 18'' but im not sure of the feed line.

There's your answer!








Cause that's what I have...atp.
Oh, and take Jeff up on his offer for some serious good isht!








Later,


----------



## EternalXresT (Jan 5, 2005)

thanks for the help man. and yeah ive heardsome good things.


----------



## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

how's the ride?


----------



## jamaicula (Jul 10, 2002)

*Re: (EternalXresT)*

how's the ride, nater?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jamaicula)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamaicula* »_how's the ride, nater?

Good man,
I'm fighting a boost leak somewhere which is pissing me off....And I'm too tired to work on my car for the last few days. But besides that it's great!!!
My clutch SUCKS!!! But besides that it's great!!!!!!
My trans is acting up...but besides that it's great!!!!!









Typical Turbo problems. Runs smooth as silk though (except for the boost tube that I must have blown loose the other day).
Oh, TIP for ppl....that don't knwo any better like me!!! :
USE THE HEAT SHIELD FOR THE TURBO...
I didn't.
Now, I am melting my throttle body! May have to do with my slight bucking problems I've been encountering...I looked under the hood and see the black plastic melting onto the Exh manny!








Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Here's an update on how the car is 'doing'.
Since this is a comprehensive thread on turbo'ing the vr6 I thought I'd keep readers in the loop on everything that has/is happening to my car after I decided to turbo it.








Later,


----------



## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

that could prob be due to you stealing the lines from the TB to water cool the turbo.


----------



## dmband0041 (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

bump for making this post a sticky http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## OrionShadow (May 14, 2004)

*Re: (dmband0041)*

Took me about 2 days to read, BUT IVE DONE IT







. Pls post an update nater, this has helped me so much. As im starting my project soon. Thanx.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (OrionShadow)*

UPdate:
There are so many "offshoot threads" in regards to this topic and I think I've been good in linking those threads in this one. So, if I've missed anything let me know.
The latest thread on me trying to figure out why I had oil sitting in my cylinders (on the piston tops) and on the plugs in all cylinders is HERE: 
Basically, I had some whining of my synchro in 1st going to 2nd gear. Schimmel took it apart and found nothing at all and said they do that every once in a while.
I also had grinding in 3rd which I just thought was as a result of my other trans problem. They found that it was a bad synchro and selector. I'm having it replaced.
The head is still in the air, schimmel is dissassembling as we speak. 
But the above thread shows pics of my pistons when I pulled 'em and pics of them before I re-installed.
Thanks everybody! I'll post all related updates in this thread for sure.
Later,


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Update to my last post....
A lot has happened since then.
The head was 'fine'. The trans was fixed. I re-installed my pistons after cleaning them thoroughly (see thread link in last post for pics).
The car is all back together and running PERFECTLY. Only this time I decided to use C2's 30# software/injectors.
After speaking with a few people about the subject what I've been told could possibly been the cause:
An extremely rich condition causing excessive fuel in the cylinders when I was initially breaking in the motor...which coated the cylinder with unburnt fuel and took away the lubricating properties of the oil. This caused some excessive wear of the cylinder and also did not allow for the rings to seat properly.
Now, if this is really the cause I don't know. But since I put the motor back together it's just fine...and vacuum is reading even closer to 20 then it was before. So, I guess it's "tighter".
And just so you guys know, I was looking through some of my old posts about when I had this motor built and when I installed it...and I had some posts of some very rich conditions and a bad maf sensor AND the wiring too...and this happened as I was just starting my car up for the first time after getting the motor rebuilt. 
So, I'm going with that as my cause...
And as long as it doesn't come back i'm fine.
So for any of you guys that are going through a motor rebuild (and turbo) PLEASE make sure all of your tuning is worked out BEFORE you go starting your motor for the first time.
Don't eff around with it. Or you'll end up like me. 
On page 12 still bitching about problems with my vr6T.
But now, I have to say that all is well!!!


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

congrats! Glad you got it all worked out. Are you ever going to take that to the track and see what kind of times you run?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_congrats! Glad you got it all worked out. Are you ever going to take that to the track and see what kind of times you run?

Not sure. But I'll def get it to the dyno. And when I do it'll be posted up here.
Personally, theres' no point to a dyno yet as I'm still running the conservative boost that comes with ATP's standard WG/kit (8.5 or 9psi whatever it is)...
When I turn up the boost (no rush to be honest, it runs soooo smoothly right now) I'll get it to the dyno.
I'm actually wondering what would happen if I routed my crankcase vent back into the intake like stock????? I'm sick of smelling that crap when at a light (even though it's much better then before).
Ideas?


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_I'm actually wondering what would happen if I routed my crankcase vent back into the intake like stock????? I'm sick of smelling that crap when at a light (even though it's much better then before).
Ideas?


you shouldn't be smelling it at all. do you have a tube venting the vapors out of the engine bay (like the WG dump tube)? 
It won't "help" performance to re-route the PVC back into the intake.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'm not worried about helping performance. I DO smell it. 
Ever stick your nose up to the crankcase vent? It smells. 
You don't smell yours? Is yours routed back under the car to the back? Maybe thats why. Mine is just routed under the car by the drivers side door.
Or maybe I do have some crap sneaking out of my wg dump tube...but then I'd HEAR a loud exhaust and it's quiet as hell.








Later,


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

mine just has a 2-3' hose on it dumping near the PS rack. I never smell it at all. you sure your not getting blow by? with the car at normal operating temp and running open up the oil fill cap and see if you have a lot of smoke coming out.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*

Well, 
The motor does have only 750 miles on it and it has been getting progressivly better over the last 300 or so miles.
So maybe it's slowly going away. Who knows. I'll get back to you on it after a few hundred more miles.


----------



## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*

you are going to smell it if you just ahve a filter on it. 
I always hated that myself, so I rerouted mine threw a catchcan into the itake. smell gone..


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (mattstacks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mattstacks* »_you are going to smell it if you just ahve a filter on it. 
I always hated that myself, so I rerouted mine threw a catchcan into the itake. smell gone.. 


I don't even have the filter...just the tube going down under the car but I think I'm right in the "Path" of the smell.
Did you notice any performance DROP by rerouting that back in??? IE: those gasses in the intake vs "normal" fresh air?


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Well, 
The motor does have only 750 miles on it and it has been getting progressivly better over the last 300 or so miles.
So maybe it's slowly going away. Who knows. I'll get back to you on it after a few hundred more miles.


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I would still like to see how that C2 stuff drives if your ever in the lansdale area.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I would still like to see how that C2 stuff drives if your ever in the lansdale area.

Didn't know you were that close. 
It feels fabulous of late!


----------



## mattstacks (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
I don't even have the filter...just the tube going down under the car but I think I'm right in the "Path" of the smell.
Did you notice any performance DROP by rerouting that back in??? IE: those gasses in the intake vs "normal" fresh air?


No none that I can see, with it I dyno'd 340 at 15 psi,12-1 AFR, 8.5-1, 17 degrees total timing.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (mattstacks)*

So then theres' my next project to take pics of and add to this thread







.
An optional re-route of the crankcase vent back into the intake...
Have any pics of yours Matt?


----------



## Kid Hobo (Sep 4, 2005)

I don't suppose you have a summary of tips for someone to prepare a 2.0L before this kit gets installed? 
... an yes, this thread is a two day read.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*

I have no idea about how a 2L turbo would go...
But I'd have to say that all of the general knowledge would stick, right guys??????


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_I don't suppose you have a summary of tips for someone to prepare a 2.0L before this kit gets installed? 
... an yes, this thread is a two day read.

Yo Hobo,
Jefnes3 has an obd2 42# 2L tune for your software needs my friend. This will at least get you started.


----------



## [email protected] (Aug 5, 2005)

*Re: (Kid Hobo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kid Hobo* »_
... an yes, this thread is a two day read.

2days?
2hrs of good stuff right here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks for all the helpful tidbits.. now I know how much fun this will be when I go this route








glad to hear it's running smoothly now after all the crap you went through.
-Kevin


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
2days?
2hrs of good stuff right here http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks for all the helpful tidbits.. now I know how much fun this will be when I go this route








glad to hear it's running smoothly now after all the crap you went through.
-Kevin


Thanks man. 
It feels so smooth and so fun to drive...on/off throttle is seemless with no bucking or anything...


----------



## kduncan (Sep 25, 2005)

Hello
I am putting together a 1997 2.0 Jetta Turbo and I am looking for Jefnes3, does anyone have any contact info\email address for him?
Thanks


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (kduncan)*

Here's his profile on vortex. Send him an IM/PM 
Or (I think), '[email protected]'


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Since I'm trying to make this a true and complete start to finish Turbo thread I am posting a link to my other thread that has the good news of me passing PA inspection.








This is with C2's 30# setup. 
Yay.


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
The car is all back together and running PERFECTLY. Only this time I decided to use C2's 30# software/injectors.
After speaking with a few people about the subject what I've been told could possibly been the cause:
An extremely rich condition causing excessive fuel in the cylinders when I was initially breaking in the motor...which coated the cylinder with unburnt fuel and took away the lubricating properties of the oil. This caused some excessive wear of the cylinder and also did not allow for the rings to seat properly.
Now, if this is really the cause I don't know. 


Hey man, Great information! I was just wondering what type of fuel you were running with the #42 C2 Chip and what type of fuel you are currently running with the #30 Chip. 91 octane? 94 Octane?
Cheers,
Mike


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_
Hey man, Great information! I was just wondering what type of fuel you were running with the #42 C2 Chip and what type of fuel you are currently running with the #30 Chip. 91 octane? 94 Octane?
Cheers,
Mike

I've always run 94 octane but in rare occurances I'll get 93 (if no sunoco's are around). I got Wawa gas (convenience store here in Philly/Jersey area) and the car ran like ****.








You may want to ask Jeff (jefnes3) what he has tuned his chips on, my guess is it's 93/94 octane but I think he's got lower octane chips available? 
Ask him.


----------



## SoFarKingFast (Jul 9, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

He probably tunes on 91...since that is what is more widely available.
Ryan


----------



## .:VRT:. (Feb 21, 2005)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote »_You may want to ask Jeff (jefnes3) what he has tuned his chips on, my guess is it's 93/94 octane but I think he's got lower octane chips available? 
Ask him.

How about 101?







Can we run that?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (SoFarKingFast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoFarKingFast* »_He probably tunes on 91...since that is what is more widely available.
Ryan

He tuned my car on what I had in the tank, which was 94 octane. But maybe that was just for my car. That was when I had the 24# and 36# injectors, stock 2.8 motor, and a supercharger (oh, and stock maf and 3bar of course).


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Just an update for those that wanna keep track of everything that happens with a turbo car:
I think I broke my speedo gear in my trans.
The other day my speedo quit working but at the same time started making noises inside the trans.
Replaced my speed sensor but to no avail.
Will be pulling trans to have it looked at.
Gears shift fine, synchros working perfectly...just no speedo and a rattle inside there that scares me







.
Just another thing that can go wrong with just "modest" boost.
So, if you think you won't be putting any "extra" $$$ into your turbo VR6, you're wrong








Another winter project begins...


----------



## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

do you have plans to upgrade your gears while everything is apart?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (AlwaysInBoost)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AlwaysInBoost* »_do you have plans to upgrade your gears while everything is apart?

I don't even know where to start with that...
Maybe I'll start another thread for that topic???
EDIT: Here it is
I've already replaced my 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears...with OEM's.
So, I'm not sure. 



_Modified by nater at 5:22 PM 12-4-2005_


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

Update (for those that care):
Car still in the garage. Hoping to fix the trans in the next couple weeks.
I'm actually getting used to not driving it (which is scaring me)







. I hope I don't get too used to not driving....
Although I'd love to get my hands on some traction (errr...AWD).


----------



## Vdubsolo (Apr 11, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Update (for those that care):
Car still in the garage. Hoping to fix the trans in the next couple weeks.
I'm actually getting used to not driving it (which is scaring me)







. I hope I don't get too used to not driving....
Although I'd love to get my hands on some traction (errr...AWD).


The power is gonna be like " holy sh*t again when you do drive the car..i put mine in the garage for the winter.;.and drove m buddys a few weeks ago was like" whoooooooooooooa " crazy fast


----------



## UberMike (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Update (for those that care):
Although I'd love to get my hands on some traction (errr...AWD).


When did Nater become [email protected]?? are deals now available through you??


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (UberMike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *UberMike* »_
When did Nater become [email protected]?? are deals now available through you??










I'm both







.
I've been working with Jeff and Chris for a while but officially became part of the outfit about 6 mos back.
But the reason you guys don't get your "deals" through me is b/c I handle the lighting part of the business.
OEM HIDs at this point really.
But I can't wait to get my damn car up again







.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Well,
I knew I had something 'not right' with the trans...And I still don't know what it is.
So, I go to back my car into the garage today (it was facing the wrong direction for me to work on it) and then just a very slight noise. Then:
Oil on the driveway, 
and this:










OUCH!
So, no more trans.








What sucks is I haven't even driven this car since it started to make a very slight noise. 
Funny thing, is after the trans totally broke and spit that piece out, I was still able to drive the car back into my garage!








The fluid was almost like somebody mixed it with Silver paint. 
Back to the drawing board! I barely drove this car after Schimmel rebuilt it.
I'm not sure if I should even try to bring it back to him...it may not even be worth the fight. He will probably think I've been putting insane boost through it.
So, I'm in need of a local (se pennsylvania) guy to take a look at the trans.


----------



## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Just a question about those people that remove their condenser and radiator... mine is hanging on my car right now, and I'm planning on pulling the motor. What do you do about the A/C system? I know you've got to break the line somewhere, but where do you disconnect it so you don't have to cut any lines? I'm pretty sure it's "against the law" to just crack the A/C system open and let all the refigerant out, so what do you guys do about this when you want to take the radiator/condenser off the car?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (majic)*

Well,
I accidentally cut my condensor with a sawzall which "dis-charged" it.
But you can have it dis-charged at a shop if you are worried about breaking the law.
Otherwise, I'd think if you just carefully disconnected the line going into the condensor there at the top you should be fine. Just be careful that you put another wrench on the unit itself, that bolt is on there tight and it tends to torque the line a bit (you'll see what I mean when you put a wrench to it).


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

many of you know my other threads but I have always promised updates so that those that read this thread from front to back will know EVERYTHING that has gone wrong (and right)...
Broken trans
Trying to decide how to go about "fixing" my broken trans via cryo-treating gears, new box, or better gears (quaife or aptuning)
My decision to go O2M swap and asking for help on list
Hope this keeps those of you that care in the loop.
My goal is just so those that think it's cheap to just slap a Turbo on (no matter what you think) know what they are getting into.
But I can also say I think I've had some bad luck too.











_Modified by nater at 9:07 PM 3-30-2006_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

So, I ordered my O2M Swap...
It should be here in the next few days.
Hopefully this holds up better than the O2A trans does. I'm debating on whether to get a bolt kit (if one is available) for it.
I'm holding off on the LSD for now. I'm going to sell my O2A Peloquin and use that cash to get my new turbine housing (.69 or close) and a 3" exhaust.
I've pulled my tranny but it was very hard doing it all on my own - not lots of space in there.
But I was wondering how I'd get the O2M back in by myself. 
I had to loosen all three mounts to move the motor a tad to get the tranny out...
So today I just figured it would be just as easy (and would make the swap easier) if I just pulled the motor.
So, now my motor is out again







... And I'm awaiting my o2m.
This will make it easier to swap flywheels/clutch and install the O2M.
I'll keep this thread updated on the progress (for those that care).
This thread has turned into more of a "cradle to grave" type DIY turbo project thread (hopefully the "grave" part happens a ways from now).


----------



## yokomomma (Aug 3, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Looking forward to hearing about how the 02M goes. I've been thinking about doing this myself. Post lots of pics and all the details! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## skaterhernandez4 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

i just finished reading all 13 pages, with most of the side-thread woes of your block and whatnot.
I must say, this is an impressive buildup! and thread!
in response to this though:

_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
My goal is just so those that think it's cheap to just slap a Turbo on (no matter what you think) know what they are getting into.


i plan on taking my g60 corrado and turning it into a 16vT. I have a 3k budget, and ill try to pinch my pennies using things off my current engine and otherwise not splurge on expensive parts.
Do you think thats far fetched? Should i expect post-buildup trauma like you did? I really only wanna push 200whp which feels doable.
thoughts? (especially you nate)
later, Evan


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (skaterhernandez4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skaterhernandez4* »_Do you think thats far fetched? Should i expect post-buildup trauma like you did? I really only wanna push 200whp which feels doable.
thoughts? (especially you nate)

Evan,
I don't consider myself an expert by any means...and certainly I know nothing about the 16v motor (except for the normal oil change stuff).
But I'll tell you this, 
As long as it's not your daily driver (to start with) then you'll be fine. But I know you'll end up spending more than you think in the long run (both in time and money).
But I think I ran into a tad bit of bad luck along the way...that's just the way it is sometimes.
Hopefully you won't.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Update:
So, my O2M gearbox arrived today and my conversion has officially began!








Here's some more pics for those that care:











































And yep...I pulled the motor again b/c it almost makes it easier to complete:








And the motor anxiously awaiting another trip into the bay (only this time mated to a 6speed







)








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
To Dean at BVAmotorsports for getting me this tranny setup only 10 days after I put down a deposit!!!!








Just look at how well crated it was!








This is how you do business!










_Modified by nater at 7:48 PM 4-25-2006_


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Sweet you're going to love the O2M -- thats the route I would have also gone if I were in your situation.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_Sweet you're going to love the O2M -- thats the route I would have also gone if I were in your situation. 

The more I hear about it, the more I realize that I don't think I could have made a better decision...
I'm hearing basically that this tranny is about as bulletproof as the VR6 block is







.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

*UPDATE:*
Sold my O2A trans to Paul ("10sec-rabbit") and he pulled everything apart.
Looks like (for the most part) the trans is in pretty good shape except for the actual bolt kit sheared off of the diff. Not good. Still wondering how that happened.
Some pics:
















Here's a good pic of all of the bolts that just sheared off:








And why my speedo quit working


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

A couple updates:
Since I've decided to go with an O2M I also put together a thread outlining what I've done...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2633108

Also,
Finally, after all of this time I put my water lines on the turbo...
For anybody looking for the size/type thread...the female thread on the turbo itself is gas line thread (whatever the official term for that is I don't know) in 3/8" variety.
Since I couldn't find any gas line fittings that had a barbed end, I then had to get a 3/8" pipe thread fitting to go into that with a 3/8" barb on the other side.
Now, the 3/8" may be a bit too big (I haven't tried getting the coolant line on it yet)...if it is, I'll just throw on a 3/8" to 1/4" barb.

EDIT: I did test fit the coolant lines and they fit perfectly on the 3/8" barbed fittings.
Pic:
This is a pic of the "Danco" brand elbow item I bought:








And the 3/8" thread to hose barb:









Installed:









Oh, and if I haven't mentioned it yet...you might notice a .69 turbine housing.








I'll update the thread on that after I drive it.




_Modified by nater at 9:41 PM 5-28-2006_


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Update:
Car is complete (o2m swap)...
Here is theprogress...
But now my clutch is slipping. Dammit.


----------



## PAULITO (Oct 24, 2004)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Clutch is only slipping in 5th & 6th gears when it gets hot.
Besides that, it hooks up nicely!!!!








I'll be getting an upgraded clutch soon..and dammit I'll be pulling that ***** again.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: (nater)*


----------



## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Nater...who did the diff install?I have installed 10 Peloquin diffs,and NEVER have seen anything like that!!I have raced with them,and had my customers race 1/4 mile with them,never a problem!I make sure to torque to 52ft. lbs (IIRC),and never had any issues







Were those possibly over tightened?
I have 1 tip to offer so you will not blow that new trans/break axles...try a bigger turbine,you will be surprised how much smoother the power delivery is,and how much longer axles,motor mounts,transmissions/gears,pistons,etc.,last!!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I had schimmel install the diff when he rebuilt the tranny so I'm still not sure what happened.
On the bigger turbine housing...yea, I've already gone to a .69 from a .58 - but my boost is still moderate (at only 8.5psi).
When I turn up the boost I'll be going up to something like a .89 (if one exists) or .91...whatever the closest "existing" housing is.
B/c I definitely don't want to break the new trans







.
Thanks,


----------



## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

get a vid on that badd @ss


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (obd2vr6)*

*Update*:
Moral of the story (to save the read) is *get the turbine/DP wraps and protect the car from heat!*

















Yea, bad pics...I actually repaired much of the harness in the center...re-wrapped it with high heat electrical tape then used some foil tape...Ghetto but very useful. Has saved my coolant hoses as well.
But those two pics show the actual harness. This doesn't go into the windage tray until it is at the pass side. Then it goes into the ECU.
What happened is this:
Turbo heat finally broke down the wiring harness (my bone-head didn't even think that would be a problem). It literally passes right over the turbo.
I had the onset of a small electrical fire after seeing some weird electrical problems (mostly related to my abs).
When I pulled over I saw melting wires and smoke coming from the pass side wire harness there just before it goes into the compartment where the ECU is.
Apparently, some wires melted into each other under the extreme heat over time, then the coating melted off....causing some wires to make contact with each other...which caused this to occur.
It's a real mess, my abs still isn't working b/c as I'm tracing back how far in the harness the burnt wires went, I can't get that far. Looks like I may have to pull the dash and most of the harness. I can't even see the bad wire b/c the coating melted completely off so I don't even know what wire it is (using color-coding from the wiring schematics).
So, as I said at the beginning. Don't go cheap when turbo'ing your car. Make sure you get those heat wrap thingamajiggies.


----------



## hiatussk8rs (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

thats hottt


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

What's hott?


----------



## darkVR6 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*

Your thread has inspired me to sell my supercharger and go turbo for more power...







(sarcastic)


_Modified by darkVR6 at 12:57 PM 9-18-2006_


----------



## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (darkVR6)*

damn man, you cant win huh.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (darkVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darkVR6* »_Your thread has inspired me to sell my supercharger and go turbo for more power...







(sarcastic)

_Modified by darkVR6 at 12:57 PM 9-18-2006_

So I guess b/c you "modified" your post almost 12 hours after you wrote it with only one extra word "(Sarcastic)" means you are begging for a response, right? Like I couldn't figure it out with your sig.
If you want to get into an immature bashing session (turbo vs s/c) you won't get one from me. go make sarcastic comments to somebody else.
For the record (from somebody who had VF and went to Turbo)...
I still wouldn't have done it any other way (except I would have included a nice turbo/downpipe blanket at the beginning of my build.


----------



## darkVR6 (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*








Not looking for a response... I read your thread and feel you pain of going turbo from supercharger, but at times things were going great, times not so great....so I added the sarcastic part for those that may have only took the time to read PART of your thread.
Great thread BTW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (darkVR6)*

Update...
New wiring harness is installed and car is running perfectly.








Now I'm just going to finish up some little things that I've been needing to do over the past few months anyway.
Car is up on 4 jackstands in my garage for the winter....
Going to install my 13lb wastegate spring, in-line Walbro, and fix some other misc cosmetic things and get her ready for spring







.
See you guys out there in the next few months!


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Good to see things worked out Nate. Good luck in the spring.







Merry Christmas


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Thanks man.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Oh, I forgot to add that I have installed my turbo wrap, downpipe wrap (inferno wrap good to 2000degrees constant and 3000 deg spikes) and am still awaiting my other DEI turbo insulation kit that I will use to wrap my Exh Manny.
I'll snap pictures to add to this thead later. I'm thinking of relocating my ambient air temp guage (in MFA) to read under-hood temps...
I think that would be cool since I never care how hot/cold it is outside.


----------



## mikemcnair (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_
I'll snap pictures to add to this thead later. I'm thinking of relocating my ambient air temp guage (in MFA) to read under-hood temps...
I think that would be cool since I never care how hot/cold it is outside.

i believe the gauge stops reading at 132 F, so you might not be able to get an accurate reading if it gets really hot under there, but an excellent idea to try, nontheless. 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to a pioneer!!!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (mikemcnair)*

Here's my update:
Walbro was installed Jan '07...Ran a little light into the dash that tells me that the pump is running. Not loud at all.
Installed all of my heat shielding material (turbo wrap, downpipe wrap, exhaust manifold wrap) and man does this turbo spool!!!!
I upgraded from .58 to .69 and now I feel like I'm back at .58 with the top-end of the .69....
It's always in boost now. I start building boost at just over 2k (ie. 6th gear at 2k rpms if I mash it I start building boost). It's mad.
Trust me, if anybody is on the fence about this you're making a mistake.
I'm not sure exactly what the temp difference is under the hood but it's very noticeable. 
New engine wiring harness was installed and everything checked out. Been driving the car for a good month so far with no problems.
Here's me talking about how well the thing drives with Jeff's updated chip.


----------



## EuroJettaGuy (Apr 9, 2006)

awesome to hear about another great vrt. I will be converting from vr-s to vr-t as soon as I get the cash. So share with me... how might I go about getting some of jeff's stuff? My car doesnt run very well right now, actually not at all.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (EuroJettaGuy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EuroJettaGuy* »_So share with me... how might I go about getting some of jeff's stuff? 

http://www.c2motorsports.net
PM C2motorsports : c2motorsports
PM Jeff : jefnes3


----------



## MKippen (Nov 6, 2000)

*Re: (nater)*

Nater.. your transmission build up is so dreamy


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (theflygtiguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theflygtiguy* »_Nater.. your transmission build up is so dreamy









Hah.
Never heard it described like that.


----------



## GTI...VRsicks (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

wow great thread... it has had me thoroughly entertained for the past hour.... great info and pics as well!.... I wish I would have seen this before I dove into my custom gt35 24v turbo set-up completly blindfolded... haha... ALL turned out well though Im just in the process of taking stuff back off in order to reroute my wastegate... the dump pipe just isn't cutting it I need to hear my turbo not raw exhaust haha.. and fumes http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif NO GOOD haha.. oh well have fun with it... im pretty sure you have been b/c I sure have nothing like a grin that you can't get off of your face everytime your in boost!!


----------



## DJ-Vr6 (Jan 18, 2006)

me agrees with the above...GREAT Thread....ur helping me make my desicion about goin FI


----------



## GTI...VRsicks (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (DJ-Vr6)*

think no longer it has made my life complete hahaha but broke


----------



## turbovr3six (Jun 19, 2006)

wow just looked at all 14 pages!! awsome thread







... i got the same kit and i was wonderin if u got any pics of your a/c connection at the firewall... i just moved to arizona and got a black mkIII with black leather.....in other words ill cook....


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (turbovr3six)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbovr3six* »_wow just looked at all 14 pages!! awsome thread







... i got the same kit and i was wonderin if u got any pics of your a/c connection at the firewall... i just moved to arizona and got a black mkIII with black leather.....in other words ill cook....









Did I forget to add in this thread that I removed my AC? If I did, I'm sorry...
So, the connection at the firewall is now gone. I had to hammer it to the side when I installed the turbo but when I went to charge it I had a very small leak there and couldn't hold pressure.
At that point I just yanked everything out - and I guess I may have forgotten to update this thread on that 'small' detail







.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Yes, long thread with lots of frustrations...but I'd do it again! I love this car.


----------



## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*

Glad to see everything came together for you in the end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_Glad to see everything came together for you in the end http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks,
But I hope it's the actual END though...somehow I feel as though the end is never actually here.


----------



## VR6ators (Apr 27, 2007)

*Re: (nater)*

Awesome thread... makes me wish i had the money to turbo my vr... someday







... 
I'd still like to see some dyno numbers!


----------



## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: (VR6ators)*

Nater,
this thread makes me scared to put the kinetics kit on my car. 
looks like i'll be breaking one thing after another!!!


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (jhayesvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhayesvw* »_Nater,
this thread makes me scared to put the kinetics kit on my car. 
looks like i'll be breaking one thing after another!!!









Not many people will have the luck I had though, so I doubt you have anything to worry about.








My luck has changed though.
The way I think of it is this:
Without the "bad luck" I wouldn't have had an excuse to "upgrade".
First "upgrade": 2.8 to 3L
Second "upgrade": O2a to O2m 
And some little upgrades here and there. 
Either way, the Wifey was on to it - but at least she knew the car was getting an "upgrade".


----------



## dubbindrummer (Sep 5, 2006)

*Re: (nater)*

did you finally end up dynoing it yet?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (dubbindrummer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubbindrummer* »_did you finally end up dynoing it yet?









No.
For some reason I just don't care. Maybe later on in the summer I'll get around to it though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dubbindrummer (Sep 5, 2006)

*Re: (nater)*

do you DD it? is it tuned well enough now? ready for some gtgs? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (dubbindrummer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubbindrummer* »_do you DD it? is it tuned well enough now? ready for some gtgs? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Sorry...not sure what DD means. It runs like a champ now so hell yea it's tuned very well.








Yes, ready for gtg's.


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_Sorry...not sure what DD means.

I think he means "Daily Drive" it.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (bugasm99)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bugasm99* »_
I think he means "Daily Drive" it.

No. WW, "Weekend Warrior".


----------



## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_No. WW, "Weekend Warrior".









Boo!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif You need to smile more.


----------



## dubbindrummer (Sep 5, 2006)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
Boo!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif You need to smile more.























agreed


----------



## yippy-skippy (Aug 14, 2007)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

Nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jettatech (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (yippy-skippy)*

Nice kit!


----------



## dubtheory (Jun 23, 2006)

how much was the turbo kit...did it come with injectors.and how much boost were you running


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

Nate, time for Dual Ball Bearing upgrade yet???


----------



## JMK3VR695 (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TIPS?? (nater)*

did the kit you bought come with the intercooler cuz im looking for a turbo for my mark3 jetta


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Sorry,
Thread jumped off my "recent topics" for some stupid reason.








On the questions regarding how much and what it came with...
Everything is in the thread.








Paul, 
On the upgrade...
Would LOVE to. But just not right now as this one still loves to whistle dixie. Nothing like the sound of a 3" VR6 Exhaust roar with a sweet high pitched (loud) turbo whistle!!!!!
But I gotta wait until ti breaks Paul! And this one has been running perfect with no water-cooling either.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (bdcoombs)*

Just a little update:

So I guess I blew out a seal (or seals) in the turbo. Since I got my Passat I've been beating on the VR a lot lately. I'm not sure why, but I think it's b/c the Passat gives me my "dub-fix" - so before I had it I would baby it a bit for fear of breaking it. Just a guess.
Either way, 
I've been having fun with it and this afternoon I started it up and warmed it a bit to take her out and sure enough I'm burning oil. I can actually see the oil trying to come out of the housing somewhere. No, not a leak anywhere around the turbo...it's blowing out the exhaust as well as smoking at the turbine housing.








So, I guess a new T04e w/o water cooling will only last so long.









Time for an upgrade.
PM me Paul.








Let's talk. 

EDIT:
I'm also thinking that I might have just made a mess in my turbo since I was idling the car for about 45 mins (don't ask....if you have kids you know how time can get the best of you







).
So, now I'm thinking it might just be a case of soaked seals (happened once before, smoked like a chimney).
I knew I should have put a restrictor in for times like this. 
So, only time will tell. The car is going under the knife again soon anyway (new clutch, LSD for 02m, etc).

EDIT:
Not blown seals. Everything is fine. I just need a restrictor on the turbo oil feed.
When idling it likes to back up.










_Modified by nater at 10:00 PM 1-24-2008_


----------



## jetgl (Mar 31, 2007)

*Re: (nater)*

i have to say im going to start my build, and this thread has been more helpful than any other. Thanks, props, and keep up the good work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jetgl (Mar 31, 2007)

*Re: (nater)*

i have to say im going to start my build, and this thread has been more helpful than any other. Thanks, props, and keep up the good work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 01vdubgtiturbo (May 3, 2008)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_










First time checking your thred it looks nice, i like the way ht FMIC looks


----------



## Return0ftheJetta (Apr 29, 2008)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_








Another shot, but here's my question: where the heck do I put that a/c canister that is out of the way (now) on the bumper (the silver thing)?










Did this issue ever get addressed? If so, my bad didnt find it, but where the heck DO you put that thing?? If it wasnt there it'd make it a lot easier to run intercooler pipng or a real cold-air-intake...


----------



## T0neyDanza (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (jetgl)*

well, after reading the entire thread.. I am glad to see you have the time and money to do this stuff, and it's not half assed... for the most part. and also after seeing that it has taken 4 years to do it all I have officially decided to go with a supercahrger.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (Return0ftheJetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Return0ftheJetta* »_
Did this issue ever get addressed? If so, my bad didnt find it, but where the heck DO you put that thing?? If it wasnt there it'd make it a lot easier to run intercooler pipng or a real cold-air-intake...

Sorry...damn topic keeps jumping off my recent topics list even when bumped up....
Yes, I got it *addressed*








I removed the AC.








No more issue.


----------



## specialforces27 (May 5, 2008)

*Re: (nater)*

Damn dude! Thats a SIIIICK ride!! How much HP are you pulling out of that?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (specialforces27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *specialforces27* »_Damn dude! Thats a SIIIICK ride!! How much HP are you pulling out of that?

I have no idea.








Seriously. One of these days I'll get it on a dyno.
Sorry for the late response. Damn topic always jumps off my "recent topics" list.


----------



## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (nater)*

still lookin good


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*

Guys,
Transitioning away from the old yahoo geocities so give me some time before these pictures work again. 
Sorry....
Update is that there is no update. Haven't driven the car in over a year.








Lost the time to get some "maintenance" done. I pulled the front end off last year to re-do the intercooler piping then ran into a brick wall (figuratively of course).


----------



## rawk (Jul 29, 2000)

*FV-QR*

Would love to see the photos back.. this thread has tons of great info!


----------



## stealthmk1 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (nater)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nater* »_ I pulled the front end off last year to re-do the intercooler piping then ran into a brick wall (figuratively of course).









thank god, wouldnt want to run into a brick wall with no front end.


----------



## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (stealthmk1)*

... i just found this thread...and it is useless without pics.... can you update them? or rehost?


----------



## Jagermeister83 (Jun 26, 2007)

*Re: (Boost112)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boost112* »_... i just found this thread...and it is useless without pics.... can you update them? or rehost?
X2


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Bump (for a couple reasons):

1) Got the pics working again
2) Getting the car back together after 2 years of sitting in the garage!

C2 Drivers side (TB) short runner, re-vamped (obviously) Turbo piping, Euro Rad Support.


So, on the Euro Rad Support with C2motorsports DRIVERS SIDE short-runner....seems it's VERY close to the euro rad support.

Anybody use this (drivers side short runner) with the euro rad support?


----------



## Standbackimapro (Mar 8, 2010)

Just one thing to remember, im not sure if all waste gates have em, but theres metal ring, called a fire ring, that goes into the waste gate where it bolts to the manifold..

Just make sure if yours has one you put it in, because a friend of mine turboed his integra, and didnt put the ring in and exhaust would just constantly pass through the waste gate to the outlet

Not a big deal, but just it seems like alot of crap is in the way on your car to get to it if you forgot it


----------



## Lamy207 (Aug 5, 2009)

Thread revival. Back from the archives... where is the car now?


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Lamy207 said:


> Thread revival. Back from the archives... where is the car now?


In my garage. Just waiting on me for some small touch ups. Euro rad support, rerouting the coolant hoses, battery in trunk. 


iPhone


----------



## Carkidps63 (May 16, 2009)

Just spent a couple hours reading up on everything... interested to see where you're at now? Any dyno runs, and/or updated pics? :beer:

+10 for a genuine dubber doin his own work :thumbup:


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Carkidps63 said:


> Just spent a couple hours reading up on everything... interested to see where you're at now? Any dyno runs, and/or updated pics? :beer:
> 
> +10 for a genuine dubber doin his own work :thumbup:





nater said:


> In my garage. Just waiting on me for some small touch ups. Euro rad support, rerouting the coolant hoses, battery in trunk.
> iPhone


Well, 
I've installed the rad support, re-routed my coolant lines, did some very small cleaning up under the hood, etc...
Car runs bug having some issues with a couple wires broken somewhere. Still not driving daily yet. Getting there. No recent dyno runs. 6speed still excellent.


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Update 12/28/2011:

So...
Tidying some things up under the hood (more than posted about earlier). I had an exhaust leak so I removed my turbo to put a new mounting gasket in. Turns out the turbo has the *slightest* amount of shaft play. This put my "project" (if you can call it that) into a different direction.
My re-route has never been ideal..when the re-route was welded it warped the metal a bit. It was doable but never an easy task to put new gaskets in (wastegate and wastegate flange to reroute) so I've decided to go with ATP's "new" (been out a couple years) downpipe v.2 which has the re-route already built in. You need the 44mm wastegate (ka-ching $) but it's got the v-band setup. So, saying bye bye to the lame old-school bolts and BS and finally upgrading. So, why get the turbo rebuilt when I'll have to get a v-band/tangential exhaust setup (needed for new downpipe)?

What's on order:
























and:

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view










And from Killa (again!):









And then (finally) time to turn up boost to about 15. 

Since this thread has gone on for years I felt the need to update you guys on everything. I'll probably rebuild the turbo and sell it (unless somebody wants it for cheap to rebuild yourself).


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^^ New parts looks great! :beer:


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Big_Tom said:


> ^^^ New parts looks great! :beer:


Well, as you know those aren't my actual pics but the ATP stuff showed up yesterday and just ordered the turbo from Killa today.




Nate


----------



## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Glad to see you still at it (because you have some of the most informative threads on the Tex). :thumbup:


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

nater said:


> Well, as you know those aren't my actual pics but the ATP stuff showed up yesterday and just ordered the turbo from Killa today.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


:beer: i just like looking at car parts :laugh:


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

how do you think this turbo would be on your setup? .50 trim and the t4 .70 undivided housing? i want spool up to be ~ 3500 to 4000rpms i might just have to build a vr-t :facepalm: lol

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-057&Category_Code=TBN


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'm not sure. But that's the exact turbo I ordered. .57 and .60 undivided.
I'll let you know in a few weeks


Nate


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

nater said:


> I'm not sure. But that's the exact turbo I ordered. .57 and .60 undivided.
> I'll let you know in a few weeks
> 
> 
> Nate


awesome thanks :beer:

opcorn:


----------



## 2a2gtis (Jan 31, 2008)

Great write up. This answers so many questions Ive had about VR turbos. Everybody's input was also great. This is the good stuff on this site. :thumbup:


----------



## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I just can't believe it's been almost 8 years! Feels like so much less.



Nate


----------



## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

nater said:


> I just can't believe it's been almost 8 years! Feels like so much less.
> 
> 
> 
> Nate


:beer:


----------



## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

that down pipe looks tits.... I'd love to have a v-band setup like that. But - the 02 bungs are soooo close to the exhaust mani. Won't the primary 02 sensor exceed max temp if it's so close? Also I don't know about all wideband sensors but my AEM UEGO is recommended to be installed around 36 inches away from the turbo as per instructions.....

my primary 02 sensor throws an upper temp threshold CEL (forget exact description of code), and it's all the way down at the bottom of the DP - that's the only reason why I bring it up


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I guess I'll know soon and report back here with the results. I hope everything works put nicely. 


Nate


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> that down pipe looks tits.... I'd love to have a v-band setup like that. But - the 02 bungs are soooo close to the exhaust mani. Won't the primary 02 sensor exceed max temp if it's so close? Also I don't know about all wideband sensors but my AEM UEGO is recommended to be installed around 36 inches away from the turbo as per instructions.....
> 
> my primary 02 sensor throws an upper temp threshold CEL (forget exact description of code), and it's all the way down at the bottom of the DP - that's the only reason why I bring it up


i've never heard of this, but it definitely sounds like a possible problem


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

2kjettaguy said:


> exhaust shop isn't going to have tial 38mm flanges. You'll need to get some from ATP. The stainless bath handle rocks. Flex section is a good idea since stainless expands and contracts quite a bit. I'm not sure where to get one that small. The one Marty has looks like a hydraulics part.
> Definitely do a re-route. Open dumps sound ugly (IMO)


Reroute is a 30-40whp loss due to flow disturbance.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

^^ i would imagine if they put it at the right angle, it could not disturb flow much at all. the cts turbo setup is rerouted, also i've seen pag kits rerouted. i doubt arnold would do that if it took 30-40whp away from the kit


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

gdoggmoney said:


> Reroute is a 30-40whp loss due to flow disturbance.


Then I'll make up my power elsewhere. IMO its the only way to do it. By the way...this setup has been done and rerouted for close to 6 years. No stainless bath handle was used. 



Nate


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

:thumbup:


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## Hid_Mann (Sep 13, 2004)

*Back at it also....*

Hey Nate - What up & guess what? Eric is passing back the 01 VR6 to me in a few weeks and it looks like I'll be hip deep with a VRT build myself. Car has been in his hands since '05 when he bored it out to 2.9liter (.080 bore) and poked in 83mm JE pistons (186236 with 9:1 comp ratio).

He added new rings, stock rods/crank, rebuilt the bottom end with glyco main and rod bearings, new rod and main bolts, ARP head studs, rebuilt the head with Autotech Ti valve retainers, cleaned and re-honed both the valves/head. Also, installed DSR 256 FI cam, new timing chains/chain tensioner, new main and wear seals, Black Forest Industries Lightweight aluminum flywheel + Stage 3 six puck center sprung clutch, Black Forest Industries aluminum crack pipe, bought & installed a custom short-runner intake manifold bolted to Mk3 aluminum lower intake manifold/ Mk3 vr6 drive-by cable TB body, OBX tubular headers, 42DD straight pipe (left the Milltek 2.5" catback in place) & lot's more. 

The Gti is still in Montgomery (he's in Memphis) with zero miles on the rebuild, so were going to haul it close to home to work on some more. 

I'll be basically selling the Vortec V9 Supercharger that he rebuilt with abec-9 ceramic bearings and new seals from superchargerrebuilds.com. He/we still have all original mandrel bent piping intact (except flange for diverter valve as it was cut and tapped to accommodate air intake temp sensor).

Beyond that...I'm still rolling on the 20th Ann IY Gti and still have the '05 C6 as our "Grocery-go-Getter" LOL. 

BTW, you still at Hilti?? Hit me up when time permits....we'll talk & catch up.:beer:

Mike


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

i've been doing more research on this turbo vr stuff :laugh: seems like the t04e would be kinda small so i'd probably go with a t04 60-1 P trim .70 a/r t4 undivided

400-420whp is absolute max i want

http://www.atpturbo.com/mm5/merchan...tp&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-039&Category_Code=TBN


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

:thumbup:


Nate


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

nater said:


> Then I'll make up my power elsewhere. IMO its the only way to do it. By the way...this setup has been done and rerouted for close to 6 years. No stainless bath handle was used.
> 
> 
> 
> Nate


I hear you. I like sounding like a 747 taking off.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

It's here. 
Doing work tomorrow.
44mm tial WG and new vband turbo downpipe going on soon. Old stuff coming out. :laugh: 


Nate


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

nater said:


> It's here.
> Doing work tomorrow.
> 44mm tial WG and new vband turbo downpipe going on soon. Old stuff coming out. :laugh:
> 
> ...


YUM! :thumbup:


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## gti vr6er (Oct 8, 2010)

This 4 yr turbo build thread has made it apparent that I'll be having my turbo installed by a shop On another note, props for having the balls to dive straight into something u had no clue of. I hope all works out for u🍺


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

The new v-band setup is all installed. New vband t04e turbo, 44mm Tial Wastegate, new atp 3" vband downpipe. This is an ATP downpipe with Tial WG with built in re-route. Hell Yea! 

Turned boost up to 15psi. :laugh:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

How do you like the new downpipe? Performance increase over the previous? :thumbup:


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

V-dubbulyuh said:


> How do you like the new downpipe? Performance increase over the previous? :thumbup:


Not running yet. Plus, I turned up the boost...so any performance gains will be blamed on the turbo, not the downpipe.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

nater said:


> so any performance gains will be blamed on the turbo, not the downpipe.


He said blame... :laugh:

Keep the work coming along.


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## icarusart (Mar 25, 2012)

*shesssh*

I applaud you for the effort towards your VRT6 or VR6T. I currently own a VR6 and I once had a 1.8t. And maybe someday I will put a turbo in my VR6... But, wow, VW made a turbo engine for us. With all the pipes going in the right holes and everything facing the right direction. A beer for you my friend, and I'll need a six pack.. :wave:


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## crzygreek (Jul 8, 2005)

Can't wait to see how you route your intake piping/dv as I wanted to run the same orientation on my turbo (compressor on drivers side). This thread is so inspiring :beer::beer:


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## nevernotrolling1131 (Apr 13, 2010)

And done. All 16 pages in a sitting and now I want to know how its running and what kind of power your hitting with 15 lbs. And I'm now shtiing my pants at the thought of turboing my vr6 lol. I guess I've got a detailed what/what not to do thread. :thumbup::beer::thumbup: Anxious to see what your putting down.


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## builtvw (Sep 20, 2009)

this thread is very useful


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

It DEFINITELY was for me. Glad it helped you too. 
:thumbup:


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

On to a fab shop locally for custom intercooler piping on Tuesday.
It's getting close to getting back on the road.
:thumbup:


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

On her way!


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## vr6milz (Mar 29, 2011)

hows the vrt doing? any updates?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TI*



vr6milz said:


> hows the vrt doing? any updates?


Yes. Custom intercooler piping almost done. Ill let the pics speak for themselves. Sorry, iPhone pics only at this time...


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TI*
















Moved power steering reservoir:








Blow off valve re-route:


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## vr6milz (Mar 29, 2011)

nater said:


> View attachment 2168
> 
> View attachment 2169
> 
> ...


Awesome stuff ! This thread is currently helping me a lot with my vrt build ! Quick question how come I never went short runner intake manifold ?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TI*

I actually did get a short runner (C2 Quick Flow) but it was too tight a fit with my euro radiator support, so I sold it and went this route instead.


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## vr6milz (Mar 29, 2011)

nater said:


> I actually did get a short runner (C2 Quick Flow) but it was too tight a fit with my euro radiator support, so I sold it and went this route instead.


Awesome !


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## jdenney741 (Jul 25, 2009)

Saving thread for good info for my noobness and wanting to put my kit on.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*FV-QR*

Ok, 
So hoping to get this thread/discussion going again like it was back when I started it years ago...

Couple questions for you guys...
My next purchase is going to be a boost controller and wideband.

After all of these years I only have a boost gauge. No controller or wideband. But I'm looking to turn things up this time, my wastegate springs are set to 16psi right now. The car isn't running again yet but will be soon.

Obviously I'm looking to get a controller that has no spikes at all and is easy to use.
In a wideband I'm looking for something rather simple yet accurate. With a pod-style display. No boxes or anything big like that. I'm not tuning or racing with it...

Anybody have any ideas? I've got my eyes on the aem wideband and profecB boost controllers (thanks Jeff Atwood)  .

And a pic as it sits now:


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I know you have a boost gauge already.... but I love my AEM tru-boost gauge / controller. It has all the features of a profec-b II, but it's much cleaner in terms of install - keeps the cabin nice and simple. And it's very simple to "tune". (also it's about $100 cheaper....) Granted... the profec supports ~43 psi out of the box.... but when will you ever go that high? tru-boost supports 29 psi out of the box with an optional 75psi sensor.

I went with AEM again on the wideband (UEGO). Works very well. No complaints.


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

AEM Uego since 2008. Easy and with no calibration or stuff like that. Just plugn/play. No issues.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*FV-QR*

Guys,
Help requested with some heat protection. Seems my turbo oil outlet (that goes to oil pan) braided line now interferes slightly with my new ATP downpipe. It touches the flex section but only slightly. 

I see a lot of heat protection sleeves at summit racing but unsure what is the right stuff to get. With exhaust temps getting extremely hot I'm unsure what will be a good form of protection. Most of them protect against radiant heat but I'm more worried about conductive heat.

Since this is a braided line I'm worried it'll get extremely hot under certain conditions.

Any ideas guys?


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## Norwegian-VR6 (Feb 6, 2002)

How has the 02M setup been working these years ? Im as happy as a rabbit with two dicks on my setup


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

nater said:


> Guys,
> Help requested with some heat protection. Seems my turbo oil outlet (that goes to oil pan) braided line now interferes slightly with my new ATP downpipe. It touches the flex section but only slightly.
> 
> I see a lot of heat protection sleeves at summit racing but unsure what is the right stuff to get. With exhaust temps getting extremely hot I'm unsure what will be a good form of protection. Most of them protect against radiant heat but I'm more worried about conductive heat.
> ...



You need to reroute that line pronto. A heat sleeve is not meant to contain contact heat, only radiated. Build a new line, and if it's sufficiently far enough (i'd say about 6-8" sideways) no sleeve necessary, if it is braided, most is good for 300-500f radiant heat.

I ran for years this way, no line degradation with the braided summit brand stuff 6" from an unwrapped glowing downpipe.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TI*



gdoggmoney said:


> You need to reroute that line pronto. A heat sleeve is not meant to contain contact heat, only radiated. Build a new line, and if it's sufficiently far enough (i'd say about 6-8" sideways) no sleeve necessary, if it is braided, most is good for 300-500f radiant heat.


I was kinda worried this would have to be my solution. Looks like ill need a 90 degree fitting and new line (a little longer) to get it out of the way of this downpipe. Ill post pics of what I pick up. I may end of going with ATP as the summit site is a bit confusing for those fittings. Thanks!



Norwegian-VR6 said:


> How has the 02M setup been working these years ? Im as happy as a rabbit with two dicks on my setup


I can't believe how long its been! But honestly I haven't driven the car in 4.5 years so I can't say its been holding up to constant abuse! But yea, it was the best thing I ever did (after the motor/turbo setup)!


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

nater said:


> Ok,
> So hoping to get this thread/discussion going again like it was back when I started it years ago...
> 
> Obviously I'm looking to get a controller that has no spikes at all and is easy to use.
> ...


*Boost controller:*
Profec B Spec 2 - Complete joke for being intuitive - installation manual/user's guide is garbage, user interface is a waste of time (display of units and inconsistency from one menu to the other), much of the general terminology is poor (eg Start Boost is the parameter but the display is actually Set Gain) however once setup correctly works very well. Large range of capabilities for a decent price when compared to its competitors. Ability to record peak boost and reduce during overboost, very helpful. Gain function actually does something. Tend to use this controller a lot on most of my setups but have a Type S for my daily.

Type S - very intuitive, less bells 'n whistles gets the job done effectively equally as responsive as the Profec B.

*Wideband:*
AEM or Innovate MTX (I am more inclined to the Innovate though because of all the widebands I am familiar with this appears to read more close to dyno widebands and the wiring/setup is a breeze).

*Oil Line*
Like the guys already stated, reroute.
Post a pic of what you have.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TI*



V-dubbulyuh said:


> Like the guys already stated, reroute.
> Post a pic of what you have.


 Well, what I have is the atp straight 18" oil return "kit". 10 AN straight fittings and 18" braided line.
What I just ordered was:
Custom ATP drain line (-10 braided line 20" long with 2 90 degree bends at each end)
1/2" NPT (45 degree) to -10 AN (2 in case I need them)

I'm not sure exactly what ill need until I get them. I will keep you guys posted.
45 degree fittings.


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## WBriggs19061 (Mar 18, 2013)

:thumbup: great build!!! 

heres a wideband for ya: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6026297-FS-AEM-Wideband-Kit-100-shipped-(plug-n-play) 

i have one on my srt4 and it works great. ill be removing it for the vrt eventually!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

No big updates here...Been busy trying to get my B6 running (which I did, Thank God). Anyway, the biggest problem (besides motivation) has been this damned oil drain line. With the new setup it was contacting the downpipe, and as we discussed that's a big problem.

So, as stated in my last post I ordered a new custom line from ATP (they never fail for me, always have what I need and ship it quick). When I tried running the line it just didn't work correctly. This line is still quite rigid and just didn't fit correctly with the existing fitting in the oil pan.

You'll see in this picture that I need to move the fitting from where it's at to where my index finger is. 

Re-install oil pan, put car back together and I should have a running car (I hope). Oh man, it's been years. Crazy.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? TI*










ATP: placed order at 6:29 local time. Ships with tracking # at 6:54. 

These guys are excellent!


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## j cal (Mar 27, 2008)

Exactly what I needed to read prior to boosting (or not boosting) my vr6.

Thanks for putting in the time and effort to document your project.

Joel


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## jettalvr41 (Oct 26, 2006)

just read this whole thread, well skimmed lol holy cow this covers like 500 years of volkswagen vr6 boosting technology. i was very happy to read it and it answered alot of questions i have for my own car. although im going a different route with the turbo set up, i enjoyed the read. it opened my eyes alot to how much work goes intot eh car after its "done" the first time hahah. :beer: for you friend great thread!


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## 2.8jettaa (Jul 1, 2012)

nater

crazy read! Did you ever end up getting this thing on the road again? I have a vf kit on mine at the moment and the car is lots of fun but man you are making me want to go turbo. Really great info documenting the project. In your opinion would you recommend buying a kit or piecing together as I go.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? ...*



nater said:


> View attachment 2408
> 
> No big updates here...Been busy trying to get my B6 running (which I did, Thank God). Anyway, the biggest problem (besides motivation) has been this damned oil drain line. With the new setup it was contacting the downpipe, and as we discussed that's a big problem.
> 
> ...


So I had to reorder another line. Got a custom braided line (same as last one, only 23" long instead of 20"). 
For the record: #10 (-10) steel braid with a 90deg fitting on each end. 
This is a pic of the old(er) one (20" long):









New one is 3" longer and the ends are chrome instead of black. 
Had the fitting welded into the new spot and prior fittings removed and cleaned, plus a flat black spray to clean up the nicks:









The remaining pics are tough to see without reference points but they show where the line goes (up over pass side rear motor mount), also shows some of the ridiculousness going on under the turbo and by firewall (new ATP downpipe with reroute built in):
















































How she sits now:









Also ran hot lead for battery relocation to trunk and picked up this battery fuse panel from mk4 golf. 

















Sorry for the small cell phone pics but it was either cell phone pics or none. 

Hopefully I can get this thing done soon.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Nice update.

Why has your build thread dropped from your sig?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? ...*



V-dubbulyuh said:


> Nice update.
> 
> Why has your build thread dropped from your sig?


My sig was too "busy" I thought.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

You are a mod, therefore over the top is justified.

In all seriousness the ATP Build thread is just as informative as the 02m. I would assume that people refer to both of them. :thumbup:


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? ...*

So I figured I'd pump out all the crappy fuel that's been sitting in my tank for 6 years, instead of trying to start it and possibly causing other problems. 
By the way I did it like this:
Disconnected fuel line going into the fuel rail (top hose), ran it to a portable fuel tank. 

Removed relay (shown in Bentley and confirmed to be lower right/position 12, OEM relay marked with 167 on it),
And jumped the 30 & 87 terminals. 

















When I did that all I got was dribbles coming from my walbro (which was DEFINITELY working). So now I'm feeling confused about my primary fuel pump. Is it working and I just can't hear it over the walbro? Dribbles coming out because I'm out of gas? 
Well, tested terminals 1 and 4 on fuel pump plug to confirm power (red/yellow) and ground (brown).








Pump clicks but that's about it. 
Tried ye old hammer method to no avail either. 
Now for one more test...
Remove outlet hose from fuel pump itself and repeat steps above to turn on pump. No fuel comes out. 

Because I need to be 100% sure I'm not out of fuel (and it seems I need a new pump anyway) I remove the pump. There seems to be a couple gallons in there. 
Measured it about an inch from the bottom of my socket extension. 

So after I removed the pump I put power to it again and got nothing but a click. 

Time to order a new pump.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*(Pics Fixed) OK. So my entire ATP turbo kit is here: logical first steps??? ...*

Now it's just random stuff.
FYI in case you need a new sensor and have the AEM A/F Gauge # AVM-30-4100, replace with a Bosch 17205, or part # off sensor: 0258007366
Quick google of that part # shows its identical, including the harness. 










I'm sure many new this already, just trying to document and help. 

:thumbup:


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I posted up in my 02M swap thread but thought it should go here as well, I've quoted those posts:



nater said:


> Purchased a Diesel Geek Short shifter today to make room around the TSTAT housing....
> 
> Also ordered a cast MK3 12V TStat Housing so that I can go back to original equipment hoses...Again, can only go to original hoses if short shifter kit is used.
> 
> ...





nater said:


> Ooooo some fun stuff came in!!
> Front Mount (generalprinciple.com/02M). Thanks Shawn!
> 
> 
> ...





nater said:


> Started today. The new front mount is incorrect.
> What a mess when there is no front in it!





nater said:


> Turns out the mount bracket is NOT incorrect. It's just that it is EXTREMELY tight to get in/out.
> You must lower the front forward subframe to get enough room for the bracket to slide in straight and unobstructed.
> Remove front mount, lower subframe, install.
> Two 16mm bolts each side:
> ...





nater said:


> So officially got this front mount in.
> Easiest just to take the front clip off
> In order to get a socket on the trans bolt (red dot) you'll need to remove the oil cooler.
> I pulled my water pipe because I am replacing tstat housing-which made removal of oil cooler even easier (due to inlet/outlet coolant hoses).
> ...





nater said:


> Ok, I guess I fixed the mk3 vs mk4 tstat housing "issue".
> My only disclaimer is that I haven't actually put the hoses on but it appears that with the short shift kit installed you can clear the linkage (only 1/2" to spare).
> Seems it's at its closest when in 5th gear.
> 
> ...





nater said:


> Ok so I put some new stuff in today...
> 
> New oil cooler just because: #376726221 @ 38.88
> 
> ...


Almost running (again)!


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## therealvrt (Jul 21, 2004)

10 years plus. I cannot believe this thread is still alive!!!


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Wow, yea you're right. It's been a long time!


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## Marv123lu (Jul 12, 2012)

i cant wait to begin my turbo build next week
Nater you sir are a god :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Marv123lu said:


> i cant wait to begin my turbo build next week
> Nater you sir are a god :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Not a god but I appreciate it. I just like to document everything not only for me but to help others. 

Funny you posted this as I was updated my 02M thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=2633108

Made some good progress, just don't know which thread to update.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Somebody requested part numbers on DSS axles. 
Here is my receipt...










EDIT: meant to post in my 02M swap thread. :banghead: 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## vr6milz (Mar 29, 2011)

Lol thread revival


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Great news...
After sitting in my garage for literally 10 years (inspection stickers dated 9/08) I’ve got her up and running!!!

I’ve not read this thread in 2 years so if I’m repeating anything please bear with me...

New Vband Turbo, wastegate, ALL NEW turbo/intercooler piping (custom one-off), 17psi, new o2m-to-mk3 front engine mount (my homemade one was ok but not great), cast thermostat housing, and I’m sure there’s more. 

For now, all I’ve got is a video of this mean mother effer in the garage. 

Put well over 500 miles on her in 5 days and she’s been perfect!!!

More vids to come. So excited I finally got this done. 

https://youtu.be/w7nJ6MMJdkY


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## vr6milz (Mar 29, 2011)

Happy to see you kept her.

Miss my Vrt


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

vr6milz said:


> Happy to see you kept her.
> 
> Miss my Vrt


When I die she will be a barn find. I’ll never get rid of her!!!!
Thanks man!


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