# FrankenTurbo F23T



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Some of you may be aware that last winter we started testing a new turbo for the 2.0 engines. We call it the F23T, and so far most of the public attention has been from the FSI motor crowd. But this turbo is also designed to be a simple, bolt-on solution for the newest TSI cars as well. 

Unlike a K04, the F23T comes complete with both OEM Pierburg N75 and 710-series diverter valves. Both in stock location. In fact, the only non-stock aspect of the F23T is the lack of an oxygen sensor bung (which it shares with the K04). Here is a look at the F23T alongside your stock unit. 











So yes, you have to remove your stock downpipe in favor of a high-performance one that's bunged for that sensor. 

Getting fitted to our test car: 




















This test car's only mods were an upgraded intake and 3" turbo-back exhaust. Stock intercooler. Stock fueling. Using Eurodyne's Maestro tuning suite, we dialed the performance at ForceFed Engineering on their DynoJet. Here is a look at that process: 





 

Here are logging graphs associated with that dyno testing: 











The stock TSI fueling system shows to be capable of handling in excess of 350whp. And the turbo itself can produce over 280g/s though a stock intercooler: 











As for how it feels on the street, well, here's a somewhat less technical peek at that. 





 

So what's the cost, you ask? The F23T will be priced at $1299. And during our introductory pre-sales period we are offering Eurodyne Maestro for a 20% discount. For further details please feel free to contact us, either here or by email. 

Yours 

Doug Harper 
FrankenTurbo


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## mr wrong (Oct 2, 2001)

Will this work with off the shelf K04 software?


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## TurboR850 (Sep 18, 2006)

Stock oil and coolant lines? Stock hoses can be used? Looks to be very promising. 

FYI - please show a better video?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

TurboR850 said:


> Stock oil and coolant lines? Stock hoses can be used? Looks to be very promising.


 The turbo comes with a silicone adapter to hook it to your car's stock turbo outlet pipe. After that, all OEM lines and connections are stock -- with the above-noted exception of the O2 sensor. This you would re-locate to the bung on your aftermarket downpipe.


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

Wow. Very impressive inexpensive power. :beer:


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

I was under the impression that this would make over 300whp on a TSI?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> I was under the impression that this would make over 300whp on a TSI?


 That's the correct impression.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

NS01GTI said:


> Wow. Very impressive inexpensive power. :beer:


 x2! 


Only about 20whp shy of the "APR STAGE 3" kit but 20tq more! 

:thumbup:


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> So what's the cost, you ask? The F23T will be priced at $1299. And during our introductory pre-sales period we are offering Eurodyne Maestro for a 20% discount. For further details please feel free to contact us, either here or by email.


 So does this mean we would have to dial it in ourselves, or would you provide a file that could be loaded in via Maestro? I'd assume, but you know what that leads to...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

snubbs64 said:


> So does this mean we would have to dial it in ourselves, or would you provide a file that could be loaded in via Maestro? I'd assume, but you know what that leads to...


 With Maestro there is definitely a good bit of "dialing yourself". That's one of its benefits. But the Maestro Suite software has access to a Eurodyne library of "base files". In among them will be a FrankenTurbo TSI file. My ambition is to have multiple F23T options in their selection "tree". Intercooling, octane, WMI. But for now the base file would be for stock intercooler and fueling.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

I can vouch for this kit, i'm currently running the FSI version of it! :thumbup:


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> With Maestro there is definitely a good bit of "dialing yourself". That's one of its benefits. But the Maestro Suite software has access to a Eurodyne library of "base files". In among them will be a FrankenTurbo TSI file. My ambition is to have multiple F23T options in their selection "tree". Intercooling, octane, WMI. But for now the base file would be for stock intercooler and fueling.


 I'm familiar with maestro as I run it on my GTi. It's fantastic to dial in a setup, but starting from scratch is not something I would be interested in, so I'm glad to hear there will be a base file. Any discount for adding a second car to the license in addition or in place of the 20% you're offering here?


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## TSiUG (Jul 6, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> That's the correct impression.


 Golfmkv/golfmk6 forum guy here.......got linked to this thread from an FSI frankenturbo thread on golfmkv. 

I know you are early in the development stages, however do you guys plan on smoothing out the tune so that it isnt so peaky? Make it pull to near redline with a flatter torque curve? If you dont look at the numbers it looks like a k03/ihi stage 2 dyno plot with the huge peak and then subsequent huge drop off in power. 

Also about the need for a new downpipe. Could us users with a existing aftermarket downpipes probably get ours modded to fit the bung? Or would new downpipes that dont exist yet be needed? 

Also is that huge torque spike down low going to be safe with stock TSI rods? Especially over the long haul(60k+ miles). 

I am currently a happy k04 guy, but if I could put down +40whp, and +80wtq reliably I would be highly interested at this price point once you guys get everything sorted out. 

One more question....which u might not be able to answer at this point. Are you guys trying to get any of the "big" tuners(apr, UNI, revo, GIAC) involved with this project. I feel like u would sell a *lot* more kits if one or more of these tuners developed "off the shelf" files for us guys who dont really want to mess around with Maestro 

Thanks in advance man:wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

TSiUG said:


> ...do you guys plan on smoothing out the tune so that it isnt so peaky? Make it pull to near redline with a flatter torque curve? If you dont look at the numbers it looks like a k03/ihi stage 2 dyno plot with the huge peak and then subsequent huge drop off in power.


 The top end power flags so much owing to spiking IATs. This first test car has a *stock intercooler*, which presented a big challenge to tuning. Timing advance after 6000 was dreadful -- around 3 - 5 degrees. On a car with a properly-specced intercooler, I think you can expect advance in the double digits, which will allow the power band to carry more flat. 



TSiUG said:


> Also about the need for a new downpipe. Could us users with a existing aftermarket downpipes probably get ours modded to fit the bung? Or would new downpipes that dont exist yet be needed?


 I'd imagine it's a rare aftermarket downpipe that doesn't come with an O2 bung, but if that's what you have it's a simple matter to weld one on. 



TSiUG said:


> Also is that huge torque spike down low going to be safe with stock TSI rods? Especially over the long haul(60k+ miles).


 We tailored the torque curve to match what GIAC had done recently with their new EXTREEEME file. For a look at the numbers they dialed with a K04 (on WMI. and race gas), click this link. 



TSiUG said:


> Are you guys trying to get any of the "big" tuners(apr, UNI, revo, GIAC) involved with this project.


 Yes we are. In addition to Eurodyne & GIAC, we have spoken to Unitronic a couple of times. Uni would make a delightful file for this product and I encourage them to develop one. As to whether they will, that's something they haven't decided. Revo? Forget it. And you're kidding about APR, right?


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## TSiUG (Jul 6, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> The top end power flags so much owing to spiking IATs. This first test car has a *stock intercooler*, which presented a big challenge to tuning. Timing advance after 6000 was dreadful -- around 3 - 5 degrees. On a car with a properly-specced intercooler, I think you can expect advance in the double digits, which will allow the power band to carry more flat.
> 
> *Good stuff, got a good IC already. And makes sense especially after seeing how low the timing advance is.*
> 
> ...


 .


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## Trd420 (Mar 22, 2013)

I hope UNI makes a tune for this


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2004)

Doug, 
What turbine and compressor wheel are you using on the turbocharger? Is it a standard K04 turbine wheel with a "custom" compressor wheel? Also, do you have a data log of the IAT's or the pre-turbine pressure you can share with us? 

Thanks 
-Eric


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

RTErnie said:


> Doug,
> What turbine and compressor wheel are you using on the turbocharger? Is it a standard K04 turbine wheel with a "custom" compressor wheel?


 The F23T's components are unique to this product. Despite our company name, which implies mixing and matching existing parts, the compessor wheel and turbine rotor are unique. Since we are a manufacturer -- not a *re*-manufacturer -- we have the means to do this. So our compressor wheel is cast, not wastefully machined from expensive billet. And our turbine rotor isn't just a "clipped" K04 part, as others use. Going about it this way nets the best product at a good value. 



RTErnie said:


> Also, do you have a data log of the IAT's or the pre-turbine pressure you can share with us?


 We have logs of IATs and a video showing both boost and pre-turbine pressures. i can post both shortly.


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## Calkulin (Dec 27, 2012)

Is this going to be sold just as a turbo or will a hardware install kit with gaskets, etc be included? Also can we order one without the diverter valve for those that have aftermarket ones with a little price break? 

I'm asking because I'm trying to buy a used Stage 3 kit but if that deal falls through or he takes too long to respond, I'm jumping on this by the end of the week.


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## ShockwaveCS (Jun 22, 2006)

I like this a lot. I am waiting some time to do any mods to my quattro CCTA 2.0t on my TT. Any idea if this kit will fit?


Sent from my iPhone using my iPhone


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Calkulin said:


> Is this going to be sold just as a turbo or will a hardware install kit with gaskets, etc be included? Also can we order one without the diverter valve for those that have aftermarket ones with a little price break?
> 
> I'm asking because I'm trying to buy a used Stage 3 kit but if that deal falls through or he takes too long to respond, I'm jumping on this by the end of the week.


 For installation hardware you can go to ECS tuning here. They have a complete kit. As to the diverter valve, assuming you've got a DV relocation kit and block-off plate on your current K03, you'd reuse those parts on the F23T. The DV which comes on our turbo you can put on the K03, which you can then sell complete. 



ShockwaveCS said:


> I like this a lot. I am waiting some time to do any mods to my quattro CCTA 2.0t on my TT. Any idea if this kit will fit?


 Is that TT equipped with a a K03 or the K04? The F23T would fit in either case, but be easier on a K03-configured car.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

RTErnie said:


> ...do you have a data log of the IAT's...















RTErnie said:


> ... or the pre-turbine pressure you can share with us?


 



 

Don't miss the note about the gauge/meter used. These readings are ABSOLUTE pressure.


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## ShockwaveCS (Jun 22, 2006)

K03 based. Good to hear having a K03 is better than a K04 for once ha.


Sent from my iPhone using my iPhone


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2004)

Thanks for sharing. Was the pull done in third gear or fourth? What kind of Dynojet? 248C?


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## TSiUG (Jul 6, 2011)

ShockwaveCS said:


> *K03 based*. Good to hear having a K03 is better than a K04 for once ha.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using my iPhone


 U sure about that?


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## TurboR850 (Sep 18, 2006)

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but there is no 02 bung integrated on the MK6 2010+ GTI / GLI turbos correct?


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## MasterNele03 (May 27, 2008)

Pretty sweet. Definately a looker, good job fellas. :thumbup:


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## Elcroato (May 21, 2002)

I have three questions: 
1. So Maestro works on the MKVI GTI's? 
2. What if there is an APR tune already on the ECU? 
3. Will Maestro also work on a Euro ECU with a Revo tune (2000 Skoda Octavia 1.8T)? 
Thanks


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Elcroato said:


> I have three questions:
> 1. So Maestro works on the MKVI GTI's?
> 2. What if there is an APR tune already on the ECU?
> 3. Will Maestro also work on a Euro ECU with a Revo tune (2000 Skoda Octavia 1.8T)?
> Thanks


 1) yes 
2) The Maestro tune will override your existing tune, no matter the vendor. 
3) see 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> As to the diverter valve, assuming you've got a DV relocation kit and block-off plate on your current K03, you'd reuse those parts on the F23T. *The DV which comes on our turbo you can put on the K03*, which you can then sell complete.


 I need to make a correction: The DV which comes on our F23T is designed specifically for this turbo. So you would retain ours, just move it from the turbo to the "relocation" spot you probably have now. The DV you have now, you'd sell with your K03.


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

TurboR850 said:


> Someone correct me if I am wrong, but there is no 02 bung integrated on the MK6 2010+ GTI / GLI turbos correct?


 I think you are correct. I had a bung in my downpipe just after the turbo and then the two others pre and post cat. 

In regards to purchasing the Eurodyne Maestro program...Can we use the CAN gateway cable from the VAG-COM and save some money?


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

How much is the Maestro software? 






TurboR850 said:


> Someone correct me if I am wrong, but there is no 02 bung integrated on the MK6 2010+ GTI / GLI turbos correct?


 I was under the same assumption. I went to APR's site to see if the k04 has one and did not see one. I thought we had three, which was right after the turbo and the pre/post cat sensors.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

ll Black Blurr ll said:


> I think you are correct. I had a bung in my downpipe just after the turbo and then the two others pre and post cat.
> 
> In regards to purchasing the Eurodyne Maestro program...Can we use the CAN gateway cable from the VAG-COM and save some money?


 No the license is built in to the cable. You can opt in for just a flash of the ECU just like most software vendors at the price of $500 instead of the whole suite.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

FLtrooper said:


> x2!
> 
> 
> Only about 20whp shy of the "APR STAGE 3" kit but 20tq more!
> ...


 Must we always be compared to every kit out there? lol! 

It looks like this kit's targeted to people who're not interested in stage 3. Neat! 

That said, if the comparison must be made on power alone, I'll correct that "20 WHP shy" statement. By 6500 RPM, it's producing *roughly 100 WHP LESS* than Stage 3. That number gets larger towards redline.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TurboR850 said:


> Someone correct me if I am wrong, but there is no 02 bung integrated on the MK6 2010+ GTI / GLI turbos correct?


 The CBFA model has the primary o2 sensor bung on the turbo. The CCTA has it on the downpipe. Any aftermarket downpipe worth your while will have 3 bungs on the downpipe so you don't need to worry about the bung on the turbo.


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## TSiUG (Jul 6, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Must we always be compared to every kit out there? lol!
> 
> It looks like this kit's targeted to people who're not interested in stage 3. Neat!
> 
> That said, if the comparison must be made on power alone, I'll correct that "20 WHP shy" statement. By 6500 RPM, it's producing *roughly 100 WHP LESS* than Stage 3. That number gets larger towards redline.


 Arin, I would like to hear how you think this turbo stacks up against a k04-64 such as the one your company sells. It seems crazy cheap comparatively for more power. Also the frankenturbo rep said in a previous post that because they were running on the stock IC, the IATs got super hot so they werent able to advance timing above 5 degrees and that with a proper IC that powerband should be able to shift to the right.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Must we always be compared to every kit out there? lol!
> 
> It looks like this kit's targeted to people who're not interested in stage 3. Neat!
> 
> That said, if the comparison must be made on power alone, I'll correct that "20 WHP shy" statement. By 6500 RPM, it's producing *roughly 100 WHP LESS* than Stage 3. That number gets larger towards redline.


 Arin I don't see the 100whp difference you claim with your stage 3 kit. Second of all the TSI test car was limited to parts available to squeeze every ounce of power. I also think this turbo walks all over your K04 TSI kit when it comes to power delivery and cost. This kit was clearly intended as a replacement turbo aspect with a boost in power. I'm pretty sure once refined and the right bolts ons are in place it can hang with your "stage 3" cars for $3,000 less!!


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## nick0188 (Nov 9, 2007)

A3Performance said:


> Arin I don't see the 100whp difference you claim with your stage 3 kit. Second of all the TSI test car was limited to parts available to squeeze every ounce of power. I also think this turbo walks all over your K04 TSI kit when it comes to power delivery and cost. This kit was clearly intended as a replacement turbo aspect with a boost in power. I'm pretty sure once refined and the right bolts ons are in place it can hang with your "stage 3" cars for $3,000 less!!


 The frankenturbo makes peak power by 3500 rpm, but then falls on it's face after that. It reminds me of a stock turbo 1.8t dyno. APR's stage 3 kit is a bigger turbo that can compress/flow more air up top. By 6500rpm the Stage 3 is making 100whp more than what the frankenturbo does. AKA..F23T makes peak power (torque spike) for a split second, while the stage 3 makes this power high in the rpm range and continues making more. 

These seems like a good concept for people looking to go to a bigger turbo, but not anything someone that is already K04 would want.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

nick0188 said:


> The frankenturbo makes peak power by 3500 rpm, but then falls on it's face after that. It reminds me of a stock turbo 1.8t dyno. APR's stage 3 kit is a bigger turbo that can compress/flow more air up top. By 6500rpm the Stage 3 is making 100whp more than what the frankenturbo does. AKA..F23T makes peak power (torque spike) for a split second, while the stage 3 makes this power high in the rpm range and continues making more.
> 
> These seems like a good concept for people looking to go to a bigger turbo, but not anything someone that is already K04 would want.


 Not even sure why we are comparing to the APR STG3 when this kit is third of the price. The direct competition are the k04 setups.


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## greasyginzo (Apr 18, 2006)

So if I bring you my car how much $ for you to install just the hardware?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Must we always be compared to every kit out there? lol!
> 
> It looks like this kit's targeted to people who're not interested in stage 3. Neat!
> 
> That said, if the comparison must be made on power alone, I'll correct that "20 WHP shy" statement. By 6500 RPM, it's producing *roughly 100 WHP LESS* than Stage 3. That number gets larger towards redline.


 What's wrong with comparing? I guess if you want more HP at 6500 Rpm's the stage 3 setup would be the better choice! 

I'll correct myself.. I should of based my comment on "peak" numbers only that we're from a dyno Run I personally witnessed. 

I'm sure the F23T and APR Stage 3 setups are both fine products that appeal to different consumers. 

:wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

nick0188 said:


> The frankenturbo makes peak power by 3500 rpm, but then falls on it's face after that. It reminds me of a stock turbo 1.8t dyno...F23T makes peak power (torque spike) for a split second.


 The dyno I posted earlier in the thread shows good power delivery up to the 5252rpm crossover. But if you think the curve resembles that of a K03 perhaps that's partly owing to the intercooler used on the test car. It was a stock component designed for -- you guessed it -- a K03. 

Bear in mind that not every car owner has the resources to afford an expensive front mount intercooler. The purpose of this initial dyno was to illustrate the possibilities for those on a budget. And for that reason, it is a poor fit for comparison to the big turbo kit here being promulgated by our competitor. Those kinds of comparisons will come, however. And I welcome them.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

A3Performance said:


> No the license is built in to the cable. You can opt in for just a flash of the ECU just like most software vendors at the price of $500 instead of the whole suite.


 What do you mean by this? Just flash the ECU on a different vehicle if you already have the maestro cable to add the ability to use maestro with your existing cable/license?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

TSiUG said:


> Arin, I would like to hear how you think this turbo stacks up against a k04-64 such as the one your company sells.


 Personally I would prefer to discuss that in a different thread.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

snubbs64 said:


> What do you mean by this? Just flash the ECU on a different vehicle if you already have the maestro cable to add the ability to use maestro with your existing cable/license?


 I contacted Eurodyne, the answer to my question is "Yes". If one already has Maestro on a different vehicle, adding another vehicle to the license is $499. If there is anyone else out there like me that has one vehicle with Maestro already that is more of a weekend warrior/track type vehicle that's substantially built and a daily driver in which they desire some more oomph in a much more OEM package, this may be a great route and something worth noting that could sway a decision (which is why i think it is relevant and important to this thread). 

If I had known this before I flashed my Audi at the same price as this upgrade, I would have just gone Maestro and used their 2.0t stg 2 flash initially and now I'd jump on this in a second. I may anyway. VERY tempting, especially considering I already have the supporting mods (DP, intake, APR IC), and dsg/AWD for all that torque.


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## Calkulin (Dec 27, 2012)

Release date still on for tomorrow? Do you have any ceramic coated ones in stock? Or what's the wait time for the coating?


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## Trd420 (Mar 22, 2013)

Posted up this on Golfmk6.com for yall http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58837


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Calkulin said:


> Release date still on for tomorrow? Do you have any ceramic coated ones in stock? Or what's the wait time for the coating?


 The first delivery of turbos is sold out now. But we'll have more in mid May. Ceramic coating would take an additional week after they arrive. Thanks again for the support, everyone.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

Any chance we can get another dyno, but on a car with a real intercooler so we can see how much the stock ic kills the top end?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Slayer said:


> Any chance we can get another dyno, but on a car with a real intercooler so we can see how much the stock ic kills the top end?


 There's a 100% chance of that. And of testing with WMI. And of results on different software. We're just getting started here.


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## ciki (May 6, 2012)

with this kind of power we should be thinking about changing the internals in the long run. right?


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## greasyginzo (Apr 18, 2006)

greasyginzo said:


> So if I bring you my car how much $ for you to install just the hardware?


 ^


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

ciki said:


> with this kind of power we should be thinking about changing the internals in the long run. right?


 Great question. They suggest it on the 1.8 for the F23 Turbo but dont say anything about the 2.0


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## ciki (May 6, 2012)

they suggest changing internals with a gt30 which gives the same kind of power. so 350 is still 350 your engine is putting out. i think it would be smart to change them later on


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

So, soup to nuts, what the price for everything needed? 

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

looks like just the turbo for $1200, and a eurodyne maestro tuner which is $800. Then you get it tuned, or tune it yourself


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Slayer said:


> looks like just the turbo for $1200, and a eurodyne maestro tuner which is $800. Then you get it tuned, or tune it yourself


 So about the same price as the k04 kits, plus a clutch

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## ciki (May 6, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> So about the same price as the k04 kits, plus a clutch
> 
> Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


 yea its the same price but you get +50 whp


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## ryan mills (May 3, 2002)

How does the exhaust back pressure compare to the guys running k04s? There are a few k04 people out there with exhaust valve float due to backpressure, so I'm just curious.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

ryan mills said:


> How does the exhaust back pressure compare to the guys running k04s? There are a few k04 people out there with exhaust valve float due to backpressure, so I'm just curious.


 Exhaust gas back pressures was covered in an earlier post. Boost-to-backpressure ratios were demonstrated to be good, as were EGTs. For comparison to a K04 turbo, you'd need to look to someone who's performed the same monitoring.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

Slayer said:


> looks like just the turbo for $1200, and a eurodyne maestro tuner which is $800. Then you get it tuned, or tune it yourself


 There was also a comment about needing a K04 install kit such as the one ESC sells. Not that it's a huge expense.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

snubbs64 said:


> There was also a comment about needing a K04 install kit such as the one ESC sells. Not that it's a huge expense.


 Yes. This is the ECS kit we recommend.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

...wow...very excited to see the frankenturbo on the tsi...looking forward to an off the shelf tune...such as giac...and another dyno run with a better intercooler...keep up the good work!!!


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Im definately interested in the f23t and Maestro, but am hesitant as there isnt a eurodyne tuner anywhere near me...states away.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

Turb02 said:


> Im definately interested in the f23t and Maestro, but am hesitant as there isnt a eurodyne tuner anywhere near me...states away.


 You don't need a Maestro tuner, you buy the suite. It will "scan" your current ECU, you send that log to Eurodyne and they will send you the file you install yourself on your car.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

A3Performance said:


> You don't need a Maestro tuner, you buy the suite. It will "scan" your current ECU, you send that log to Eurodyne and they will send you the file you install yourself on your car.


 Wut!? How does scanning the stock ecu let them know what mods I have and what file to provide? Not being ignorant, I really wanna know more about this system

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Turb02 said:


> Wut!? How does scanning the stock ecu let them know what mods I have ...


 
Eurodyne Maestro can't be that thorough when scanning your car. It checks the ECU type so you get a properly-formatted software file that'll be compatible. But the Eurodyne software library will have a base file which you can begin with, and then modify for your car's particular modifications.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Eurodyne Maestro can't be that thorough when scanning your car. It checks the ECU type so you get a properly-formatted software file that'll be compatible. But the Eurodyne software library will have a base file which you can begin with, and then modify for your car's particular modifications.


 So, Eurodyne found a way to flash the ECU "in" the car, without going to a shop? I understand there is a library of files for different tunes, Im just trying to figure this all out. 

Is there a list of these tunes in the library? What they offer (numbers wise) and screenshots of logs or something to show that the initial setup is 'safe' for a unopened engine (no rod upgrades, etc...). 

eg. Say I buy this f23t kit and the Maestro suite, it scans my ecu, then I choose my base file based on a starting point I choose? In my 2010 VW CC, I want to get, say, 330 whp/wtq. In the library, I can pick a file that is close to that (deemed safe by Eurodyne), tweak it from there to get it where I want, and hope nothing else is needed to ensure the safety of my engine? 

Will the tune need to be tweaked again after that? If I get to where I want it to be and everything in the logs show its good, I shouldnt have to touch the tune again, correct? 

I also noticed on frankenturbo's website that there is a Military discount. what does it apply to (Maestro and turbo or...) and how much savings are we looking at?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Turb02 said:


> So, Eurodyne found a way to flash the ECU "in" the car, without going to a shop? I understand there is a library of files for different tunes, Im just trying to figure this all out.


 No, no. Eurodyne shares the same limitations for initial ECU writing as all other tuners. The first flash has to be done "on the bench". Thereafter the OBD port will work as you modify and refine the tune.


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

Any word from GIAC or UNI on software for this?


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

ll Black Blurr ll said:


> Any word from GIAC or UNI on software for this?


 
...x2...but im more interested in GIAC though...


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Boost112 said:


> ...x2...but im more interested in GIAC though...


 Same here opcorn::beer:


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Turb02 said:


> Is there a list of these tunes in the library? What they offer (numbers wise) and screenshots of logs or something to show that the initial setup is 'safe' for a unopened engine (no rod upgrades, etc...).
> 
> eg. Say I buy this f23t kit and the Maestro suite, it scans my ecu, then I choose my base file based on a starting point I choose? In my 2010 VW CC, I want to get, say, 330 whp/wtq. In the library, I can pick a file that is close to that (deemed safe by Eurodyne), tweak it from there to get it where I want, and hope nothing else is needed to ensure the safety of my engine?
> 
> ...


I hate to quote myself, but...looking for answers.

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Turb02 said:


> Is there a list of these tunes in the library?


Yes.



Turb02 said:


> What they offer (numbers wise) and screenshots of logs or something to show that the initial setup is 'safe' for a unopened engine (no rod upgrades, etc...).


No. For that information you'd search sites like this.



Turb02 said:


> Say I buy this f23t kit and the Maestro suite, it scans my ecu, then I choose my base file based on a starting point I choose?


Yes. The base file is a starting point.



Turb02 said:


> In my 2010 VW CC, I want to get, say, 330 whp/wtq. In the library, I can pick a file that is close to that (deemed safe by Eurodyne), tweak it from there to get it where I want, and hope nothing else is needed to ensure the safety of my engine?


The options in the library are not going to be extensive. I'd imagine you will see choices for differing intercooling and fueling. You'd select what's closest and start from there.



Turb02 said:


> Will the tune need to be tweaked again after that? If I get to where I want it to be and everything in the logs show its good, I shouldnt have to touch the tune again, correct?


No you shouldn't.



Turb02 said:


> I also noticed on frankenturbo's website that there is a Military discount. what does it apply to (Maestro and turbo or...) and how much savings are we looking at?


We offer a $100 discount on the F23T to military members and educators. But that discount can't be combined with the (still available) pre-order 20% discount on Maestro.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Great info, thanks Doug! How long is the sale?

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Turb02 said:


> Great info, thanks Doug! How long is the sale?


At least one more week. And after that I'd like to find some other partner for a discounted product to pair with the turbo. Intercooler? In-tank pump upgrade? I'll figure out something.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> At least one more week. And after that I'd like to find some other partner for a discounted product to pair with the turbo. Intercooler? In-tank pump upgrade? I'll figure out something.


Let me know if ur looking for someone with full bolt ons minus IC but with meth


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Get a Golf R intercooler. It's a modest upgrade, but equally modest in price.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Any of the initial buyers get there's installed yet?

:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

FLtrooper said:


> Any of the initial buyers get there's installed yet?


No. We had a week-long delay in shipping from our manufacturer. But we hope to be fulfilling all current orders this week.


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## Col-Buddy-Greenleaf (Jun 27, 2007)

What a difference a year makes. Back in early 2012 I inquired about a FRANKENturbo option for the TSI and it was an unsure/maybe some day.... Just saw this and I'm genuinely glad to see you guys jumping into this engine platform.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Any idea when these things are shipping?


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1210283&postcount=184


> I was at my local tuner place this past weekend and was asking if they had heard of Frankens' k04 kit and they had not and pulled it up on their PC. The shop is a APR dealer and has put in some Chinese k04's at customers request. Few things that they noticed, the rubber plugs you see on the k04 are usually billet on borg warners. Also the green paint used on some parts or the end of screws is common on Chinese K04's, and the clips used on the hoses are also common with Chinese K04. One thing they found odd was the machined water / meth valve on the side as being too close to the turbo.
> 
> If Franken is using Chinese k04s and doing the work to put them into the system, it would make the $1200 price tag fit.
> 
> ...



What does Frankenturbo/Doug say?


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

I may be interested going franenturbo again....


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

twistid said:


> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1210283&postcount=184
> What does Frankenturbo/Doug say?


I'd say that APR dealer could have saved themselves a good bit of time by merely looking around a bit on our site. That's because we make no secret about using overseas manufacturing. What does that mean? It means China. It means the same country as the one tapped by Garrett, BorgWarner, IHI and a host of others. Bottom line, the business of making turbos for the worldwide market is centered in China. And we approach our manufacturing no differently than those multi-national companies. 

Where we differ is in our product backing. We offer a market-leading 2-year warranty against defect. On top of that, we have our "No Fault" CHRA replacement pricing of only $150. So if you do any of a number of things that would void your warranty with the "Big Guys", you can have the entire guts of your turbo overnighted to you for a speedy and inexpensive repair. It's product backing which has allowed this company to thrive, and to be completely up-front and honest about where we get our product.

Thx


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## Clipsed (Feb 25, 2009)

Just read through this whole thread. Really digging your option for those on a budget for some good numbers.


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

Thank you for your response Doug, may I ask what the failure rate is on these? Is the QC there to weed out the bad apples? I'm not trying to dig up dirt, I'm very interested in going F23!


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## Trd420 (Mar 22, 2013)

ll Black Blurr ll said:


> Any word from GIAC or UNI on software for this?





Boost112 said:


> ...x2...but im more interested in GIAC though...





AZ_CC said:


> Same here opcorn::beer:


GIAC will have a Tune for this soon all ready in the works


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## 13ttaz (Apr 30, 2013)

All of this looks wonderfully promising! :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

twistid said:


> Thank you for your response Doug, may I ask what the failure rate is on these? Is the QC there to weed out the bad apples? I'm not trying to dig up dirt, I'm very interested in going F23!


Let me answer this from a personal perspective: I am NOT an early-adopter. I'm the sort who, before buying anything, waits for a couple product cycles in order for the manufacturer to work out the kinks. So how do I square that with being in charge of a company that's based on innovation? Well, I apply that pragmatism to my own products. At their introduction, every one of our new turbos gets completely broken down, inspected and re-balanced. Every nut is re-tightened and the actuator re-set. And we continue doing this until any/all manufacturing mistakes have been rectified.

This is not to say that we don't trust our manufacturers. I am very proud of our overseas partners. But there's a good deal of truth in "Trust, but Verify". There's too much riding on this product introduction to do it any other way.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Very well said Doug! I applaud your business practices and hope to do business with you in the future...just gotta get the wife on board

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Any updates? 

opcorn:


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

FLtrooper said:


> Any updates?
> 
> opcorn:


I'm waiting for the dyno graph with upgraded intercooler before I order. If they can fix that peak then I'm all over this.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

twistid said:


> I'm waiting for the dyno graph with upgraded intercooler before I order. If they can fix that peak then I'm all over this.


You've got the supporting mods to install an F23?


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

A3Performance said:


> You've got the supporting mods to install an F23?


This is the TSI section, supporting mods are what, an intake and exhaust? lol


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Probably upgraded intercooler and a downpipe. Those would be the major limfacs


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> You've got the supporting mods to install an F23?


Yes: fx350, tbe, fmic, ect...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

ViRtUaLheretic said:


> This is the TSI section, supporting mods are what, an intake and exhaust? lol


...and an intercooler I expect. Turbos are shipping this week, so soon enough we'll see the pros/cons of various mods with this turbo.


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

pretty sure clutch would be mandatory with this as well.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The stock clutch on our TSI test car was holding 410ftlbs on the dyno. We were all surprised by that.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The stock clutch on our TSI test car was holding 410ftlbs on the dyno. We were all surprised by that.


Thats enticing! How many miles were on the car/clutch though? Ive got about 55k on mine. If Idont need a clutch, this just became priority one for my next mod!


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> The stock clutch on our TSI test car was holding 410ftlbs on the dyno. We were all surprised by that.


Doug unfortunately the TSI platform has a known issue with clutch life expectancies. They don't handle TQ well and it is greatly advised to upgrade. I've seen plenty of stage 2+ cars shred them,


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

twistid said:


> Yes: fx350, tbe, fmic, ect...


That's all you need!  :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The ClutchMasters Fx350 has a very stock-like feel. We're running it on the FrankenTT test car.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The ClutchMasters Fx350 has a very stock-like feel. We're running it on the FrankenTT test car.


My FX-350 has a stock-like feel but the noise of a diesel dump truck! Haha

Doug, are the F23t's in stock now or are the ons shipping from the pre-orders?

:thumbup:


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

FLtrooper said:


> My FX-350 has a stock-like feel but the noise of a diesel dump truck! Haha
> 
> Doug, are the F23t's in stock now or are the ons shipping from the pre-orders?
> 
> :thumbup:


That's my preferred clutch choice as well. The FX350 has a great pedal feel and if noise is an issue I would recommend a steel flywheel over the aluminum.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

A3Performance said:


> That's my preferred clutch choice as well. The FX350 has a great pedal feel and if noise is an issue I would recommend a steel flywheel over the aluminum.


The TSI CM flywheel is Steel but is a Single Mass the stock Dual Mass. 

:thumbup:


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

FLtrooper said:


> The TSI CM flywheel is Steel but is a Single Mass the stock Dual Mass.
> 
> :thumbup:


WUT?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> WUT?


My Clutch Masters Flywheel is made of steel not Aluminum but is single mass compared to the stock Dual mass.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Gotcha


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## ShockwaveCS (Jun 22, 2006)

Dsg can handle this stock?


Sent from my iPhone using my iPhone


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## 08GraniteGreenPassat (May 16, 2009)

ShockwaveCS said:


> Dsg can handle this stock?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using my iPhone


Yes, and it's the 2.0t's ultimate wingman!:wave:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

FLtrooper said:


> My FX-350 has a stock-like feel but the noise of a diesel dump truck! Haha
> :thumbup:


And here I'd thought I was being over-sensitive. Yes, the transmission now rattles and clanks quite a lot. Oh well. Racecar.


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

Any updates on shipping or new dynos?


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

twistid said:


> Any updates on shipping or new dynos?


:beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

twistid said:


> Any updates on shipping or new dynos?


I spoke with GIAC yesterday, and their tuning work for the FSI is still underway. But they are interested in following up with a TSI variant. So in the upcoming weeks I'd say you can expect more eye-candy/dynos. As for me, I am eager to see what a properly-intercooled car can do, so you can be sure that's going to be sooner than later.


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> I spoke with GIAC yesterday, and their tuning work for the FSI is still underway. But they are interested in following up with a TSI variant. So in the upcoming weeks I'd say you can expect more eye-candy/dynos. As for me, I am eager to see what a properly-intercooled car can do, so you can be sure that's going to be sooner than later.


 Thanks for the update! Is it possible to use off the shelf K04 software (GIAC, APR) with the F23? I'd love to buy the F23 but Maestro tuning does not interest me. I know you said in the coming weeks we can expect more eye-candy but do you have an estimate for when it (GIAC software) would actually be available?


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## Clipsed (Feb 25, 2009)

Doug, if GIAC is looking for a TSI test car for tuning, I am local with an 09 TSI, I'd be willing to be a guinea pig... I have an intercooler among other mods if you'd like to know them lmk...


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

Clipsed said:


> Doug, if GIAC is looking for a TSI test car for tuning, I am local with an 09 TSI, I'd be willing to be a guinea pig... I have an intercooler among other mods if you'd like to know them lmk...


 Same here!

Got mine today.


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## Clipsed (Feb 25, 2009)

ll Black Blurr ll said:


> Same here!


 GIAC is local to me, that's why I mentioned it...


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## hksfd3s (Jul 13, 2011)

Clipsed said:


> Doug, if GIAC is looking for a TSI test car for tuning, I am local with an 09 TSI, I'd be willing to be a guinea pig... I have an intercooler among other mods if you'd like to know them lmk...


 Get in line haha. I've been patiently waiting for a few months. GIAC is still working on the FSi platform with great results. I'm already APR K04 and bought the F23T to do a true on car comparison. Same car, same dyno, same supporting mods. Should be really interesting.


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

hksfd3s said:


> Get in line haha. I've been patiently waiting for a few months. GIAC is still working on the FSi platform with great results. I'm already APR K04 and bought the F23T to do a true on car comparison. Same car, same dyno, same supporting mods. Should be really interesting.


 Interested to see this!


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## Calkulin (Dec 27, 2012)

As much as I would like a GIAC tune with this turbo, I'll be using whatever tuner is will tune mine with the intake manifold flaps disabled(opened all the time)


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Calkulin said:


> As much as I would like a GIAC tune with this turbo, I'll be using whatever tuner is will tune mine with the intake manifold flaps disabled(opened all the time)


 You are probably limited to maestro and/or .dotuning


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

dotuning?


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## pbassist12 (Aug 2, 2012)

Doesnt unitronic have a tune or going to have a tune for the f23t?


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Any updated dyno numbers or information? 

Has a eurodyne tune been completed for a vehicle equipped with a proper intercooler? 

:thumbup:


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

pbassist12 said:


> Doesnt unitronic have a tune or going to have a tune for the f23t?


 They do not currently have a tune. I'd message them direct if you're interested.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

FLtrooper said:


> Any updated dyno numbers or information?
> 
> Has a eurodyne tune been completed for a vehicle equipped with a proper intercooler?
> 
> :thumbup:


 Delays on these data are completely on us. We were close to three weeks late with our initial shipments and are still trying to catch up on fulfilling orders placed as long ago as late last month. But when we're caught up, we can focus on dialing in a variety of setups. 

Thx


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## mcgillis (Dec 6, 2007)

Anyone planning on pairing this turbo with apr k04 software?


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

Heard it won't work well


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## greasyginzo (Apr 18, 2006)

This turbo isn't that different from a standard ko4 you may not get all the power the turbo is capable of but it will certainly run and I can't imagine AFRs being off that much at all.


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

a user on golfmk6 says these are being shipped with a part installed backwards causing overboost... i guess the quality control somehow missed that


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## hksfd3s (Jul 13, 2011)

twistid said:


> a user on golfmk6 says these are being shipped with a part installed backwards causing overboost... i guess the quality control somehow missed that


 Sorta don't get your posts. You're going back and forth in your decision to go K04 or F23T. Pick one. If you're so worried about the F23T then go K04. You have tons of options and companies to pick from. 

Don't live scared. You want more power then just do it. I went APR K04 and love it. I'm now about to get my F23T installed and obviously be in the middle of trying to find the correct tuning but I don't regret any of it. A modified K04 is what I wanted from the get go and now that there is an option I'm curious to try it. APR has their V3 software coming out which beta testers are saying is amazing. That's awesome. APR is doing a great job of making the best out of that turbo for power and reliability. But physically the turbo doesn't change and there is a limit with what can be done with tuning. 

I'm looking forward to using Doug's turbo and the potential of it. Sure there may be "bumps" in the road. Trust me I've had a couple more than most on this BUT when you are taking a risk with something new that's what you have to deal with. 

If you're really considering the F23T then shut up and be patient. It is what it is. There are a lot of them now that were shipped and it still takes time to get things tuned. People have schedules, shops have to figure out what they want to do. What type of tune do they want to do. Aggressive, reliable? There are so many factors than just "hey i got this turbo now make it run." 

Would you really want a turbo with a tune that was put together just to get the car running? Would you want something untested? Something that the kinks haven't been worked out yet? TWISTID you're on both forums going back and for being so negative on this option. Seems like you've already made up your mind. 

IF my car is used for the testing that I hope it is, I wouldn't be surprised if I lost the car for a week or two. 

Over they years I've had multiple cars used for company testing. New products, fitments etc. Things take time. 

Doug is doing his best. He's taking a chance on something that has great potential for our platform. Now he also has to wait as tuners start giving him data. He's not the one making the tunes. He did the hardware now it's up to the other companies associated with him to start working on tuning the cars. 

How long do you think it took APR to come out with their first K04 software. How many revisions has there been since. Tuning takes time. So now with a new product things will take time. 

So make your own decision about your own car. Either go K04 or just be patient.


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

Yes I am skeptical about the F23 and the claims made, but that doesn't mean I don't want it to be true. Of course everyone would want a bolt on +350whp turbo for half the cost of a normal k04 kit and I am a bit impatient on more independent testing. However there's nothing wrong with spreading information regarding the fact parts were incorrectly installed and sent out to customers when earlier in the thread I questioned the QC and Doug replied, "Let me answer this from a personal perspective: I am NOT an early-adopter. I'm the sort who, before buying anything, waits for a couple product cycles in order for the manufacturer to work out the kinks. So how do I square that with being in charge of a company that's based on innovation? Well, I apply that pragmatism to my own products. At their introduction, *every one of our new turbos gets completely broken down, inspected and re-balanced. Every nut is re-tightened and the actuator re-set. And we continue doing this until any/all manufacturing mistakes have been rectified*." 

If you don't like the skepticism then don't read my posts, I hope I am proven wrong and I buy one myself. However until then; delays and incorrectly installed components aren't very reassuring. :beer:


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

Not to be a dick to Doug, because that's not what I'm trying to do here. I love his product and he has been steller w/ helping me solve some issues, but I gotta say what happened in my particular case. 

Two things were off when I received my turbo. The wastegate preload was not set, and the N75 valve came installed backwards. The backwards N75 in particular caused the most issues. It caused the wastegate to not crack, therefore overboosting like a mofo. It was not a huge deal on my end, as he quickly helped me figure out the issue and we got it resolved quickly. 

Ultimately it's up to you if you want to be an early adopter. He has a great reputation and will stand behind his products. I'm sure he has a lot going on at once, and mistakes do happen. We're human and not everything can be perfect.


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## onevrsix (May 27, 2010)

Pure.Dope said:


> Not to be a dick to Doug, because that's not what I'm trying to do here. I love his product and he has been steller w/ helping me solve some issues, but I gotta say what happened in my particular case.
> 
> Two things were off when I received my turbo. The wastegate preload was not set, and the N75 valve came installed backwards. The backwards N75 in particular caused the most issues. It caused the wastegate to not crack, therefore overboosting like a mofo. It was not a huge deal on my end, as he quickly helped me figure out the issue and we got it resolved quickly.
> 
> Ultimately it's up to you if you want to be an early adopter. He has a great reputation and will stand behind his products. I'm sure he has a lot going on at once, and mistakes do happen. We're human and not everything can be perfect.


 :thumbup:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

hmmmm the the girls '13 CC in my driveway needs this...


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> hmmmm the the girls '13 CC in my driveway needs this...


I'd be jazzed to have my turbo in one of those cars. I don't care if people think they're "girly", I happen to believe 300+ whp in one of those would be amazing.

Also, your sig shows a BorgWarner-fitted Ecoboost F150. Hoo-boy, have I got plans for that motor....


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I'd be jazzed to have my turbo in one of those cars. I don't care if people think they're "girly", I happen to believe 300+ whp in one of those would be amazing.
> 
> Also, your sig shows a BorgWarner-fitted Ecoboost F150. Hoo-boy, have I got plans for that motor....


Lets talk, I pm'd you about 6 months ago about the ecoboost and you told me you were to busy  lets dance Doug!

People on f150 forum are itching... Wanting to rewheel and everything. Fueling is an issue.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

theswoleguy said:


> hmmmm the the girls '13 CC in my driveway needs this...


And I'm seriously considering one for my '10 A3 quattro. Sounds like it could be a lot of fun


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

Any word from GIAC or other software manufacturers yet?


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

ll Black Blurr ll said:


> Any word from GIAC or other software manufacturers yet?


:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

ll Black Blurr ll said:


> Any word from GIAC or other software manufacturers yet?


The AUTuning FSI test car has been getting some upgrades for the last week or so, which put a hold on tuning for it. But I spoke to them today and they sounded ready to resume tuning and get that car buttoned up. If results are to GIAC's liking, I think we can expect them to spin off that file to the stronger, better fueled TSI platform.


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

Man i hope GIAC does tuning for us TSI owners....i bet this thing would go nice with some water meth and a s3 IC


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

AZ_CC said:


> Man i hope GIAC does tuning for us TSI owners....i bet this thing would go nice with some water meth and a s3 IC


But are the tuners working on a maestro based tune(map)' or their own flash tune?

Sent from my Note 2, disregard any grammatical errors.


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The AUTuning FSI test car has been getting some upgrades for the last week or so, which put a hold on tuning for it. But I spoke to them today and they sounded ready to resume tuning and get that car buttoned up. If results are to GIAC's liking, I think we can expect them to spin off that file to the stronger, better fueled TSI platform.


Is it possible to have whoever tuned the car in the videos (I think FFE) to post there MAP file? I know Puredope was having issues with the provided F23 map file.


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

twistid said:


> Is it possible to have whoever tuned the car in the videos (I think FFE) to post there MAP file? I know Puredope was having issues with the provided F23 map file.


I ****ed up my timing belt job, and it's off by a tooth. I'm fixing it Tues night. So anything I've said up to this point can be disregarded. I'll log and re-test the f23t tune file shortly after.

:screwy:-->ME


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

well thats both good and bad to hear  ... Hopefully the base map provided is good enough to daily drive on without the issues you've been having (caused by your bad timing). Is anyone up and running with maestro yet?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Chris Tapp at Eurodyne copied me on an email he sent to a potential customer. i think it's pretty self-explanatory:

_Maestro is available and there is a frankenturbo base map available for the MK6 2.0 TSI.
The included software allows you to run logs and will allow you or any other tuner to make changes, but does not include us remotely tuning the vehicle.
_​


----------



## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Chris Tapp at Eurodyne copied me on an email he sent to a potential customer. i think it's pretty self-explanatory:
> 
> _Maestro is available and there is a frankenturbo base map available for the MK6 2.0 TSI.
> The included software allows you to run logs and will allow you or any other tuner to make changes, but does not include us remotely tuning the vehicle.
> _​


Haha... that was me. I was emailing if he will fine-tune maps for us if we send him logs.


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Im sure he will.... for a fee
The base tune is provided and if you are trying to eek out every last horsepowers then that is technically a custom tune.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

twistid said:


> I was emailing if he will fine-tune maps for us if we send him logs.


The initial F23T product rollout was deliberately a small release. I knew beforehand that I'd be handling a lot of support for the "early adopters". So I've been taking up a bit of the tuning responsibility where Eurodyne can't. And it's been a lot of fun so far. But I'd also like to use this forum as a resource for shared insights into tuning adjustments and experimentation. This collective database will eventually lighten the load on me, but also probably teach me a thing or two.


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

I want to see a tsi f23t setup with proper cooling. The fsi setup ****s all over this setup around top end. Never knew an intercooler would make that big of a difference on such a small turbo. 

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


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## DrociB (May 7, 2010)

Definitely interested in this. Subbed to see how things progress.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

skyrolla89 said:


> I want to see a tsi f23t setup with proper cooling. The fsi setup ****s all over this setup around top end. Never knew an intercooler would make that big of a difference on such a small turbo.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk 2


If I could, when I looked at my logs and I saw my intake temp DROP after successive runs, I knew the intercooler was doing its job. 

Just feeling the inlet vs outlet you realize just how much heat it's taking off the air charge


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## twistid (Mar 1, 2012)

I have a FMIC, turbo outlet pipe, throttle body pipe, full 3" exhaust, intake, FX350 clutch, and all the other common bolt on stuff. Doug said my F23 will ship early next week and my local shop is going to install it as soon as I bring it to them. I will get on the dyno shortly after and post some em up as soon as I get them. Also Audi R8 coilpacks and NGK plugs


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## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

Interesting read: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6081255-Frankenturbo-actuator-testing


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## Pure.Dope (Mar 26, 2009)

That's not an issue on this turbo. Why is everybody spamming this in every f23t thread?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Pure.Dope said:


> That's not an issue on this turbo. Why is everybody spamming this in every f23t thread?


Well, what the thread does indicate is that the test setup in the first video is flawed (without appropriate preload). So if you read the first post only, it will look bad, but you have to read through and decide what to believe based on multiple opinions. At the end of the day, if you need added assurance that our actuator works properly, hook it up to a bike pump, give it a little juice and see for yourself when the wastegate starts to open.


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## smokey24 (Feb 25, 2012)

I've been reading along and just keeping to myself. Tho I have not tried the f23 been thinking about it but I already have a ko4 kit. I've talked with Doug in the past and I like him. Very quick to reply great Guy respectful. I would much rather buy that product then say some other companies that chimed in earlier.
but anyhow just wanted to say keep up the improvements and HP on a budget. Its great. HP is expensive. And everyone wants it. It is great to be able to get it when normally no way that could happen. 
Good job


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## greasyginzo (Apr 18, 2006)

It is very strange that there are no independent reviews yet


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Well there are no independent reviews because the product isn't in full production yet. There's been a limited release to work out all the kinks (mostly in software) before presenting it for mass consumption.

I have to say, though, as one of the early adopters I'm incredibly impressed. Installation was mug easier than expected, and it is a damn fast car now. 

My peak flow is 260g/s (should be able to squeeze 20 more out after optimizing wg settings). Right now I'm stuck on a fuel trim issue, not sure if its hardware or software (if it were hardware its my car, not the turbo). 

If I has it all to do again I would have still gone with this turbo... And I'll tell you why.

2 reasons: 1) it offers the most for the price and 2) Doug (frankenturbo) is an incredibly down to earth guy who tends to his customer's needs. If you have a question and you email him, I can almost guarantee he'll address it to your satisfaction. Can't overstate the ease of access for customer support.

If any or all of these things interest you, keep your eyes peeled. If not, there are a lot of other great, well matured, products on the market.

If its logs you want to see, ask and I shal provide (though its on my FSI, and I'm not swinging for the fence like TSI owners might with their better rods).


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## joshp912 (Dec 17, 2005)

^ just a lurker on FT threads but yes yes yes Doug is THE man for sure. Dude always responds and has to be maaad busy all the time. 



You the man Doug! Glad to have someone like you in the VW/AUDI tuner world


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

*frankenturbo*

do you have to get audi s3 injectors if you get the f23t kit?


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Gti/mk6 said:


> do you have to get audi s3 injectors if you get the f23t kit?


Many people haven't, and they aren't a requirement. But some say the stock injectors max out at somewhere around 330whp.


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

Ok but how much whp will this f23t and how much wtq? And so technically all you need is a turbo back exhaust and an intake?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

majic said:


> Many people haven't, and they aren't a requirement. But some say the stock injectors max out at somewhere around 330whp.


How much whp will this kit get you I meant.?


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Gti/mk6 said:


> Ok but how much whp will this f23t and how much wtq? And so technically all you need is a turbo back exhaust and an intake?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


Hmmmm... the downpipe is going to be more important than the cat-back... the OE downpipe is horribly constricted because of that catalytic converter they have right there at the outlet of the turbo. That is a worthy investment. The stock exhaust is not too bad, but it's not great because the muffler is horribly constricted. 

You do not need an intake... whatsoever. I kinda wish I hadn't purchased one. I got one because I got a catch can, and it didn't play well with the stock engine cover.

If I had it all to do again, i would skip the intake and the catch can, vent the PVC to atmosphere and call it a day. A downpipe is a good idea, though. 

Lastly... the fueling for a TSI is better than an FSI... so I don't know about max HP... I'm thinking probably somewhere in the ballpark of this dyno plot Doug posted... maybe even a little more







In fact... that plot came from a TSI with a stock intercooler.

That's the other thing... if you were only to get two other things besides the turbo... make it a downpipe and an upgraded intercooler.


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

majic said:


> Hmmmm... the downpipe is going to be more important than the cat-back... the OE downpipe is horribly constricted because of that catalytic converter they have right there at the outlet of the turbo. That is a worthy investment. The stock exhaust is not too bad, but it's not great because the muffler is horribly constricted.
> 
> You do not need an intake... whatsoever. I kinda wish I hadn't purchased one. I got one because I got a catch can, and it didn't play well with the stock engine cover.
> 
> ...


So you think I should just get a downpipe?..could i have a example of a good brand for a good price??and does the TSI work better with the frankenturbo than the FSI? And so I don't really need anything else other than a down pipe and a intercooler? 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

majic said:


> Hmmmm... the downpipe is going to be more important than the cat-back... the OE downpipe is horribly constricted because of that catalytic converter they have right there at the outlet of the turbo. That is a worthy investment. The stock exhaust is not too bad, but it's not great because the muffler is horribly constricted.
> 
> You do not need an intake... whatsoever. I kinda wish I hadn't purchased one. I got one because I got a catch can, and it didn't play well with the stock engine cover.
> 
> ...


And I'm gonna get performance parts later on but in the beginning what would be a good idea? A downpipe and a intercooler?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Downpipe and Golf-R intercooler. And a new clutch fairly shortly after.


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

And instead of getting and entire intake I could just but a cone so I could hear my BOV louder.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

I need two f23t. One for the left bank one for the right bank. 

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Downpipe and Golf-R intercooler. And a new clutch fairly shortly after.


Is the f23t more reliable than a ko4? Because I haven't really heard any reviews about it. And so I'll go downpipe, r32 intercooler, and what type of clutch should I get?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

Do I need a tune for the f23t? And what tune if I need one?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

And one last question... What kind of rods should I go with because I heard rods are recommended!!?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Gti/mk6 said:


> And one last question... What kind of rods should I go with because I heard rods are recommended!!?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


if you own a TSI motor rods won't be necessary... unless, what is your target torque goal?

You will need a tune... there are lots of opinions out there on who is leading the way to the "best" tune for this turbo at the moment. GAIC is working on a tune, Eurodyne has a tune available, and .Do tuning also has a tune. The latter two are both claiming very good results. 

As a Eurodyne user, I can say it's been a so-so experience... I'm happy now that things are starting to resolve and I think the turbo is starting to be happy with the settings, but it wasn't without hiccups (that I doubt other future users will experience) because ironing out the programming inconsistencies was the beta tester's cross to bear


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## Gti/mk6 (Jul 15, 2013)

majic said:


> if you own a TSI motor rods won't be necessary... unless, what is your target torque goal?
> 
> You will need a tune... there are lots of opinions out there on who is leading the way to the "best" tune for this turbo at the moment. GAIC is working on a tune, Eurodyne has a tune available, and .Do tuning also has a tune. The latter two are both claiming very good results.
> 
> As a Eurodyne user, I can say it's been a so-so experience... I'm happy now that things are starting to resolve and I think the turbo is starting to be happy with the settings, but it wasn't without hiccups (that I doubt other future users will experience) because ironing out the programming inconsistencies was the beta tester's cross to bear


Ok but I was thinking with a bigger aftermarket intercooler and a tune and the f23t and a full exhaust and intake I'll be around 400wtq..in that's range somewhere.. 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Gti/mk6 said:


> Ok but I was thinking with a bigger aftermarket intercooler and a tune and the f23t and a full exhaust and intake I'll be around 400wtq..in that's range somewhere..
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


Good luck.

Not saying it won't happen, but.. . good luck.

And for rods, search for people's experience for what stock rods can handle. IE makes some good rods. Before you try making 400 ft-lbs of torque, make sure you upgrade your clutch first.


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## NS01GTI (Jan 31, 2005)

Gti/mk6 said:


> Is the f23t more reliable than a ko4? Because I haven't really heard any reviews about it. And so I'll go downpipe, r32 intercooler, and what type of clutch should I get?
> 
> Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


No one knows if the f23t will be more reliable than the K04 at this time. What we know is that the K04 on TSI motor are nearly bulletproof. Occasionally there's some misfire issues solved with coil packs or spark plugs, but overall it's an extremely reliable 300-320whp setup.

It would appear the f23t will make quite a bit more power than this, but it will make a year or two before we really know how reliable it is. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Gti/mk6 said:


> Ok but I was thinking with a bigger aftermarket intercooler and a tune and the f23t and a full exhaust and intake I'll be around 400wtq..in that's range somewhere..


During our dyno testing we had no difficulty passing the 400whtq figure. But that's not a prudent amount of power on a stock motor. Furthermore it's just not particularly safe. Traction loss and torque steer at 400+ make for a hard-to-control car. I recommend a maximum torque somewhere below 340.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> During our dyno testing we had no difficulty passing the 400whtq figure. But that's not a prudent amount of power on a stock motor. Furthermore it's just not particularly safe. Traction loss and torque steer at 400+ make for a hard-to-control car. I recommend a maximum torque somewhere below 340.


Makes me wonder what kind of results the F23T coupled with a Golf-R would produce


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

This week we have been working with a customer and AU Tuning to see how this turbo fares on APR's K04 software. Because the F23T has a different actuator calibration, control of the turbo via the ECU isn't possible. So we experimented with a manual boost controller and with the N75 simply bypassed (this is known as running the car on "spring pressure" or "actuator pressure".

After logging the car, they were satisfied with the boost on MBC control and took it to the dyno. The equipment was a Dyno Dynamics, which is a load-based dyno. And with the car on the rollers it quickly became clear that the MBC couldn't adequately suppress boost. Here is a video showing the boost gauge shooting all the way to its 30psi limit.







The guys at AU Tuning decided that the MBC simply needed to be removed, and ran the car again, this time on actuator pressure. Here is the boost gauge from that run:







As you can see, boost still creeps. That's owing to the high-load dyno and the very aggressive turbo actuator spring setting. But that setting allows the turbo to closely emulate what a K04 turbo would do under ECU control. Here are some comparisons of logging data taken by the same car, on the same dyno, when it was running a K04:




















We have done this trick with a big actuator preload before, also in a circumstance where the test car was running software for another turbo. In that case, it was an FSI running K03 software. And it dynoed over 280whp on a DynoJet. In this case, with a TSI, we saw 300whp. On a much stingier Dyno Dynamics. 

Here is the graph, with the following legend (provided by the car owner):



Dark Blue is F23T w/ APR software with MBC on and boosting who knows the hell what. Gauge maxed out and VAGCOM can't read over 21.75...

Pink is F23T w/ APR software running off of actuator only at about 28 psi drop to 24 psi

Green is APR K04 w/ APR software.












As you can see in the blue graph, this turbo has a ton of torque to offer when it's being handled via a boost controller. So the car will doubtlessly feel more responsive when teamed to software that can make use of the N75 valve. But as a test of what's possible on an off-the-shelf flash for the K04 turbo, we're certainly getting pretty good results.

Next steps will be to dial in the car more completely on Eurodyne Maestro. That process will begin immediately.

:beer:


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

Doug, would you suggest running k04 software without using the N75 for daily driving for now?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I feel the best "temporary" boost control solution would be our standard 12psi preload on the actuator, with BOTH the stock N75 valve and an added MBC running in parallel. This may not net the biggest powah, but it is a reliable and enjoyable upgrade from the K03.


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## A3Performance (Jul 22, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I feel the best "temporary" boost control solution would be our standard 12psi preload on the actuator, with BOTH the stock N75 valve and an added MBC running in parallel. This may not net the biggest powah, but it is a reliable and enjoyable upgrade from the K03.


:thumbup:


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## R32ManiaK (Aug 21, 2003)

I am considering the F23T, just not sure if I should upgrade now or wait on GIAC to release teir tune. 

Doug: what intecooler setup do you recommend?
twin cooler, fmic or S3 style stock ic replacement


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Unless you are planning to run really high boost, I'd say the Golf R or S3 units would be adequate. If you want more, I'd recommend a full FMIC over the twin-tercooler design.


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

Im in when you folks get the tuning situation handled. Good work.


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## ilyaamex (Jan 21, 2012)

:thumbup:


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## privman (Jan 21, 2010)

tuned in.


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## afmilboy02 (Aug 7, 2006)

is there an application for the 13.5 gli with the ea888 gen 3 engine?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*GIAC "base map" data logs*

For the last few days GIAC has been mapping a pair of TSI cars on the F23T. As the file sits, it demonstrates their command of boost as well as fueling. They have been cautious to avoid overboosting at onset, but are clearly getting solid pressures and airflows at the top end. Here's a look at some selected data:




















All of us involved, whether here at FrankenTurbo, AU Tuning or GIAC themselves, are really jazzed to see software support approaching for this turbo. 

I will post more as the file gets more complete.


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

Updates


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## ina04gli1.8t (Sep 24, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Must we always be compared to every kit out there? lol!
> 
> It looks like this kit's targeted to people who're not interested in stage 3. Neat!
> 
> That said, if the comparison must be made on power alone, I'll correct that "20 WHP shy" statement. By 6500 RPM, it's producing *roughly 100 WHP LESS* than Stage 3. That number gets larger towards redline.


Given the choice between this and apr's stg3. I would go with stg3 any day. Apr has been making this kit for a long time, it's proven the test of time and reliability. It's not always about peak numbers, When, where and how hard the boost comes on and falls off makes a huge difference. Spend the money and do it right the first time.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

ina04gli1.8t said:


> Given the choice between this and apr's stg3. I would go with stg3 any day. Apr has been making this kit for a long time, it's proven the test of time and reliability. It's not always about peak numbers, When, where and how hard the boost comes on and falls off makes a huge difference. Spend the money and do it right the first time.


Apples to Oranges comparison, as pointed out by Arin in your quote. This turbo will likely sit in between a K04 and a big turbo power wise, but have the same parts requirements as a K04. Because of that it is significantly cheaper than Stg 3 and other big turbo kits. If you have big turbo goals (400+ hp) and deeper pockets ($5,000 compared to $1,299+Tuning), this is not your turbo.

Looking forward to seeing updated dynos from GIAC soon! :beer:


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

TTT... any news on a canned tune for this yet?

From a phone tapped by NSA


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Late night researching shows APR rep saying stock rods can support 400wtq...so now we need to see more of these kits in the wild, Doug!!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5005787-How-much-power-can-stock-internals-handle

From a phone tapped by NSA


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

*F23 isn't just for the TSI, it's for the TFSI as well*

Installation pix of the F23L FrankenTurbo variant being test-fitted to a B8-series Audi A4:


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## s.c.gti (Jan 15, 2013)

Probably getting one of these in the spring


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

*SLAPPY DUNBAR!*

http://forums.vwvertex.net/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=95
*^^^Heres a nice technical discussion with regards to Doug's actuator problems; complete with empirical testing* 

*Below are some real gems for your reading pleasure, OR 'Slappy Dunbar's' Greatest Misses!*
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5377139-Frankenturbo-Unitronic-OVERBOOST-PROBLEMS!!!/page5

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...p-sensor-who-s-done-this-who-s-open-to-trying
*^^^This one is particularly cute; especially coming from a guy who questions the tuning abilities of one of the best tuners in the game. Bah! Who needs to adjust ignition timing via software!?*

http://www.fastdubs.org/forums/archive/index.php/t-21043.html
*^^^Another happy FT customer here*

http://www.vwwatercooled.com.au/forums/f127/petes-polo-goes-big-87742.html
*^^^Some chap down under had great success with his FT, AFTER swapping the wastegate actuator for an OEM unit. I've posted a couple of photos below, that I borrowed from this thread that illustrate the subpar specification of the FT actuator as compared to an OEM actuator. You can see that the FT actuator barely opens the wastegate flap.*








*OEM^^^*









*FT^^^*

I hate liars opcorn:


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

*MORE LIES DOCUMENTED* this one is extra juicy

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.719601041389208.1073741831.641275339221779&type=1












CTS Turbo
September 27 

In August 2013, Bronson Charles Dixon established Driver Motorsport.

http://mugshots.com/US-Counties/Florida/Pinellas-County-FL/Bronson-Charles-Dixon.3226870.html











Bronson was new to the VW/Audi scene and purchased his MK5 GTI back in April 2012. His first modification was to get an ECU remap from the company he would ultimately work for, APR.

"I picked up my 2008 GTI in April of 2012 at Lokey VW in Clearwater Florida. After the first test drive I was hooked, I was previously considering an 8th generation Si and after testing out the torque and fit and finish of my GTI I decided not to call back the Honda dealership and signed the paper work for the GTI."

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=171270



















CTS Turbo
September 27 

As a former Florida resident, he sought to establish himself by offering his services to members of that region in the Gulf Coast Euros club. It wasn’t long before members asked him to compare his offerings to those of his former employer, APR.












CTS Turbo
September 27 

Even looking at the Driver Motorsport webpage, you see references to development times long beyond Bronson's involvement in the VW community and his employment at APR.



CTS Turbo
September 27 

What is puzzling is that during his tenure at APR, Bronson did not work as a calibrator or even in the engineering department. His functions were to man the help desk in the sales department. Meanwhile, other hardware companies were misled as to the breadth of his knowledge.












CTS Turbo
September 27 

What's also interesting is that publicly, Driver Motorsport states that they are a Florida-based operation, the company information indicates a location in Opelika, AL.


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## BBaskett (Apr 13, 2010)

^^ No ones personal life should be posted in a technical forum for a Frankenturbo. I suggest you take your ranting elsewhere, rather than feeding your impulse for detestations of a specific being on a community forum.


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

I'm not sure what an arrest for POT possession has to do with ANYTHING? You _*MAY*_ be right about everything else, I don't know or care, but that seems. . . . desperate and irrelevant entirely.


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

snubbs64 said:


> I'm not sure what an arrest for POT possession has to do with ANYTHING? You _*MAY*_ be right about everything else, I don't know or care, but that seems. . . . desperate and irrelevant entirely.


Reading Comprehension > You


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm sure the people following this thread can comprehend this, though:










TSI-engine support from DriverMotorsport for both the K04 and FrankenTurbo is forthcoming. Naturally I'm a lot more keen on the latter product, but that's business. As is the occasional flak from a competitor.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

That looks good to me.. over 20psi from 2900-6600rpm sounds great


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## snubbs64 (Oct 23, 2004)

Rod Ratio said:


> snubbs64 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure what an arrest for POT possession has to do with ANYTHING? You _*MAY*_ be right about everything else, I don't know or care, but that seems. . . . desperate and irrelevant entirely.
> ...


Ok, then. I guess with my subpar reading and presentation comprehension I need a little help understanding. So what is it I'm not comprehending? Enlighten me to what I'm missing, if I'm the one who is, in fact, missing something.

_Posted via *Topify* using iPhone/iPad_


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## BBaskett (Apr 13, 2010)

Saw this today. Those numbers are substantial for the minimal mods. VW should have given the GTI/GLI better flowing turbos from the factory...


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## AZ_CC (May 25, 2012)

That's some good numbers there....curve looks really smooth and linear :thumbup:


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## s.c.gti (Jan 15, 2013)

I have a few questions. Is there a update on tsi software? Would the spm fmic be ok for this and what connecting rods would yall recomend?


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

As of right now, there is no "off the shelf" tune for this turbo. You can go Maestro tune and get it tuned specific to your mods this way.

The SPM Intercooler shouldnt be an issue, and the rods are only necessary if you plan on pushing the power and torque past 350whp/wtq...at least that's the consensus thus far.


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## s.c.gti (Jan 15, 2013)

Turb02 said:


> As of right now, there is no "off the shelf" tune for this turbo. You can go Maestro tune and get it tuned specific to your mods this way.
> 
> The SPM Intercooler shouldnt be an issue, and the rods are only necessary if you plan on pushing the power and torque past 350whp/wtq...at least that's the consensus thus far.


Ok thanks for the info.


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## s.c.gti (Jan 15, 2013)

MK6727 said:


> There is now an update for F23T TSI software.
> 
> Frankenturbo is delivering a F23T to Driver Motorsport to be used on their Development MK6 Drivers Edition GTI. The tune will have a dyno cell dedicated to it and will be built from the ground up.
> 
> The process will be the same where the customer receives a programmer and can get updates as they choose. It is expected that the TSI results will be an improvement over what was possible on the FSI. The release date is planned for January 17th.


Best news i heard all day!


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

Aww yeah! that's great news


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## tree_hugger (Sep 11, 2012)




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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

s.c.gti said:


> Best news i heard all day!





Slayer said:


> Aww yeah! that's great news


Here's a video compiling DriverMotorsport's R&D for the F23T on the FSI. 







Work on a file for the TSI cars will happen over this month.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

…and here's a video of tuning work using Maestro on a 91oct California-based TSI…


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## Clipsed (Feb 25, 2009)

DAMN!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Yesterday, I had the opportunity to be on hand while a GIAC-tuned TSI was put on the rollers, and there are a number of people I'd like to thank. First, the car owner for his willingness to try a new turbo product on GIAC's software. Second comes Tyler Cathers of Rusty's Island Euro Custom for opening his shop to us. I also really appreciate Lou Lieberman's enthusiastic interest in running the Mustang Dynamometer. He's a Subie guy principally, but he offered some terrific insights into the GIAC file we were testing. Lastly, I must say I deeply appreciate GIAC's R&D efforts into our product. The skillfulness of their tuning is completely evident with this car.

Anyway, there is a huge amount of data that I want to convey. And a lot of it has little to do with the turbo itself. For starters, I had not realized that it's possible to calibrate a Mustang to emulate a DynoJet's readings. But Lou at Procom Race Systems had gone to the trouble to do just that. So with a few keystrokes he is able to set the machine to mimic the much-more-common DynoJet scaling. Here is a comparison of the results gathered in either mode:










If you look at the lowest blue and red lines, that's a precise look at what it means to test on a "Heartbreaker" dyno. But in all my time researching, I've never seen it so well quantified. Exactly 30 wheel horsepower is "gone". And 35 wheel torque. Wow. The Mustang is so stingy, in fact, that we couldn't get to 300whp even when the car was running ~100 octane fuel in the tank!

Nevertheless, I was wowed by the car's strong performance on the street. The GIAC file seems a great option for use with this turbo. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

video of the same…


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## Seppdelaney (Apr 11, 2011)

Man, this is exciting stuff!


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> video of the same…


Couldn't help but noticing all the rollers are spinning. This is an R, isn't it? 

Have the hardware limits of the turbo been pushed for R applications yet?


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## Pineapplegti ! (Dec 17, 2008)

Mkvi gti not an r..that being said most rs are tested as fwd

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk


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## BBaskett (Apr 13, 2010)

majic said:


> Couldn't help but noticing all the rollers are spinning. This is an R, isn't it?
> 
> Have the hardware limits of the turbo been pushed for R applications yet?


There probably wouldn't be many benefits to running a Frankenturbo on an R when they already come with a K04. From a K03 there is a huge upgrade, but not as much from a K04. A GT3076r or equal precision turbo is more along the lines of what most R owners would want I would think.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

BBaskett said:


> There probably wouldn't be many benefits to running a Frankenturbo on an R when they already come with a K04. From a K03 there is a huge upgrade, but not as much from a K04. A GT3076r or equal precision turbo is more along the lines of what most R owners would want I would think.


I would totally agree with everything you just said, and I would also agree that R's are typically tested with haldex disabled...

But why in that video are both rollers spinning?


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## BBaskett (Apr 13, 2010)

majic said:


> I would totally agree with everything you just said, and I would also agree that R's are typically tested with haldex disabled...
> 
> But why in that video are both rollers spinning?


Some dynos are four-wheel dynos all the time whether it's FWD, RWD, or AWD; all four wheels spin. It mimics "dyno testing" on the road. 


Sent from The Armpit of America


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

majic said:


> I would totally agree with everything you just said, and I would also agree that R's are typically tested with haldex disabled...
> 
> But why in that video are both rollers spinning?


Mustang dynos are resistance-based, not inertial. So even though there was no power being put to the rear wheels by the car, the system "matches" the speed of the front roller automatically. The car is FWD. So that spinning in the back is likely being driven by dynamometer. I'll ask the operator for more clarification on this.


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## majic (Mar 10, 2005)

Oh wow, learn something every day! That's awesome,
Thanks guys


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## Seppdelaney (Apr 11, 2011)

Any updates from GIAC regarding their tune? And can someone provide info regarding DOTuning? I've read some very positive reviews mentioning them, but have not heard of them until I began my Frankenturbo research.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The best way to get more information on this GIAC file would be to contact your local dealer. They can tell you about availability and prices.


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## R32ManiaK (Aug 21, 2003)

what is the reliability on these f23t units? my k03 is on its last leg and am looking for a replacement turbo.


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## davespence20 (Apr 21, 2013)

R32ManiaK said:


> what is the reliability on these f23t units? my k03 is on its last leg and am looking for a replacement turbo.


No one had really had them long enough to know for sure


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

The F23T is engineered and manufactured to serve as an excellent option at repair time. So in addition to being powerful it must be reliable. And we are confident enough in the result that each F23T sells with a 2-year warranty. This is based on the quality of our products and the excellent service life they have delivered for the years we've been in business.

If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact us directly.

Thanks


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## molo_gdl (Mar 26, 2007)

Doug, few months ago you mentioned that the F23T may get a wastegate update. Did it happen?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

It did happen. We now ship the F23T with a reduced preload of 8psi. Hardware for the turbo is unchanged, but the actuator is simply set up with a lighter preload. Customer feedback and our own testing have shown the new setting to allow better part-throttle performance and an improved gamut of control for the engine's ECU. Top end performance of the turbo remains as strong as ever, though. If you have additional questions, feel free to contact us directly.

dh


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## awpturbo (Jan 9, 2009)

*frankenturd*

this stuff is garbage! you guys have made a bad name for yourselves.

You cant tall me you can undercut all competitors by that price and still be offering a quality product. Were not retarded. Sell quality equipment and stand behind it or don't sell anything and save shops and owners time and money from having install and then immediately remove this cheap Chinese junk. 

I bet you guys buy these by the lot from ebay for nothing then turn around and sell them for 3x more.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

awpturbo said:


> this stuff is garbage! you guys have made a bad name for yourselves.
> 
> You cant tall me you can undercut all competitors by that price and still be offering a quality product. Were not retarded. Sell quality equipment and stand behind it or don't sell anything and save shops and owners time and money from having install and then immediately remove this cheap Chinese junk.
> 
> I bet you guys buy these by the lot from ebay for nothing then turn around and sell them for 3x more.


Gosh I love morons like this that don't even bother to research the product before blasting it.


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## BBaskett (Apr 13, 2010)

awpturbo said:


> this stuff is garbage! you guys have made a bad name for yourselves.
> 
> You cant tall me you can undercut all competitors by that price and still be offering a quality product. Were not retarded. Sell quality equipment and stand behind it or don't sell anything and save shops and owners time and money from having install and then immediately remove this cheap Chinese junk.
> 
> I bet you guys buy these by the lot from ebay for nothing then turn around and sell them for 3x more.


Did your Uncle touch you when you were younger or did a Chinese man bang you wife?


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