# noob timing belt question



## craving_gti (Mar 6, 2009)

sorry to be a noob but im about to buy a 1998 a6 from a dealership with 109k miles. im just wondering about at what mile mark should i change the timing belt? also is there anything i should expect to buy/replace asap? also is there anything that i should look for before i buy the car?


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

The car was probably traded because it needs a timing belt now The manual states to timing belt to be changed at 105k, general practice for performing this service on this engine is at about 80k. Without disassembly, there is no easy way to tell if the belt has been changed. Because the belt is behind covers, even an original belt with 100k on it will appear nearly new.

It is not so much the timing belt, but the timing belt, timing belt idler, timing belt tensioner w/roller, water pump, coolant system flush and cam seals that need to be done if they have not already. There are the failure items. This will cost about $1300 at a dealer or about $600-$900 at an indy. Parts alone are about $350-$450.

Make the seller add in the cost of these things if you can, or get a reduction in price.


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## 02GTIFREESKIER (Oct 3, 2006)

Like he said. Or tell the dealer that you want them to do the TB job before you buy it. They should offer it anyway with that mileage.


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## AndyTR32 (Jun 4, 2003)

tryin2vw said:


> It is not so much the timing belt, but the timing belt, timing belt idler, timing belt tensioner w/roller, water pump, coolant system flush and cam seals that need to be done if they have not already. There are the failure items. This will cost about $1300 at a dealer or about $600-$900 at an indy. Parts alone are about $350-$450.


I recently picked up an C5 Avant A6 with a 2.8l w/ 98k miles, knowing it is due for a timing belt. Ironically, I threw a CEL about 0.5 mile from an Audi dealer. Pulled into an autozone and scanned the car. Code was showing that the timing belt has slipped and the cam position sensor had thrown the cell. Limped down the the audi dealer for a diagnosis. They are quoting me $4k for all of the above you mentioned, GTFO. 

Due to travel for work, the car has been sitting at the dealer so I can figure out what to do. They are telling me it needs a cam tensioner that is on the opposite end of the motor as the timing belt. I've been fighting tooth & nail to get the detailed list of parts and labor but they're giving me a bit of a run around. I did get a verbal quote for parts only and it was $1900 for Timing belt with all bolts & pulleys, thermostat, water pump, coolant, intake cam tensioner, etc (basically all above, including the cam seals). The dealer keeps referring to the "chain on the back of the motor" while refering to the tensioner needing replaced. They are also claiming that the car will need to be re-timed because the ignition is out of sync with the motor. I'm unfamiliar with the engine so I'm still researching but would greatly appreciate any advice. 

Sorry to thread jack but I'll post details of the quote when I get them which should provide some input to the thread. If not, I'll start my own.

EDIT - It appears they are talking about the Cam chain tensioner assembly so this might hurt a bit. Based on ECS's website the part is about $675 per cam!

I don't plan to allow Audi to work on my car (just pay the diag fee and move on) but they are quoting me 12hours for the cam tensioner and another 12 for the timing belt. Does this seem right or should I save on labor by having them both done at the same time?

Thanks!

Andy


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

What is/are the exact code(s)? They don't always mean what it looks like they're saying. Apart from the code, did the car otherwise run OK/a little rough/very rough all the time/at idle/off idle? 

As for your other questions: 

For starters, apart from opening the hood, there is essentially no overlap between changing the timing belt, and changing the cam chain tensioners. So, even if they didn't charge book time (which they will), you wouldn't save anything. 

Second, shop rates, estimates, and even parts are cheaper from VW dealers than Audi dealers. At least that's how it works up here in Canadia, eh. A good indy shop may be hard to find, but will usually have better rates than any dealer. Good shops also tend to be very busy, so they don't need to, much less have the time to do unnecessary work on your car. 

Third, why do they think _both_ CCTs need replacing? Did the computer tell them? It might just be throwing a ghost-code because of the slipped timing belt. If both CCTs were fubar, it would sound like firing up Grandpa's rusty ol' square-baler for the first time after it sat in the barn all winter. I think it's extremely unlikely that both CCTs would simultaneously fail at precisely the same time as the timing belt slipped, especially since they don't seem to suspect bent valves. 

Unless you can confirm beyond any doubt that the CCTs have failed, I'd just do the TB job for now. Especially if the CCTs are $675 a pop (!!!!). Why so expen$ive for the 2.8? They're about $200 for the 1.8T! 



AndyTR32 said:


> They are also claiming that the car will need to be re-timed because the ignition is out of sync with the motor.


 Why on earth would they need to touch the _ignition_ timing? It's your _valve_ timing that's off if the timing belt slipped. Of course they're out of sync _now_, but If the crank and cam position sensors are OK, the ignition timing will be fine once the timing belt is installed and properly adjusted. If they're saying checking/adjusting valve timing is a separate job from changing the belt, then tell them to shove it. It sounds like this dealership either doesn't know what they're talking about, or is trying to fluff the work order.


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## VDubGTi08 (Jan 31, 2008)

O_o said:


> What is/are the exact code(s)? They don't always mean what it looks like they're saying. Apart from the code, did the car otherwise run OK/a little rough/very rough all the time/at idle/off idle?
> 
> As for your other questions:
> 
> For starters, apart from opening the hood, there is essentially no overlap between changing the timing belt, and changing the cam chain tensioners. So, even if they didn't charge book time (which they will), you wouldn't save anything.


 Wouldnt there be overlap in replacing a cam chain tensioner as the timing belt would need to be removed from each bank of cams that you're replacing as well as reinstalled and tensioned? Seems to me that once you have the timing belt off, you only need to remove the valve cover, lock the CCT in place and pull the bearing caps off. Once the caps are all off, the cams/chain/CCT assembley would be able to be removed. Dont see why they would need that much overlap. Maybe 4 hours perside and thats somewhat on the high side. 

I did a 105k mile maintenance today on a 03 Passat Wagon with 2.8 and that only pays 5.75 hrs to do the belt. Add another .5 for the coolant pump and .3-.5 for the rollers and thats still only 7 hrs. Where are they getting another 5 hours for just a timing belt job? 

My advice would be to buy the tools/parts yourself and do the job yourself. Shouldn't take more than a weekend. Might even be able to find someone that will let you "borrow" the tools, to make it a little cheaper for you.


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## O_o (Nov 12, 2009)

VDubGTi08 said:


> Wouldnt there be overlap in replacing a cam chain tensioner as the timing belt would need to be removed from each bank of cams that you're replacing as well as reinstalled and tensioned?


 I'm pretty sure you only need to lift one camshaft to get the CCT out. I know you can on a 1.8T, and don't see why it would be different for the 2.8.


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## tryin2vw (Dec 30, 2006)

Only one cam is removed to replace the CCT on the V6


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

Sorry to hijack this, but can someone tell me the torque requirement on the tensioner bolt? Thanks!


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## AndyTR32 (Jun 4, 2003)

Bump just to give an update on my above post. 

I ended up getting everything straightened out for about $1k. I found a specialty shop that resealed both CCTs, timing belt with new roller, dampener & water pump. Also replaced the valve cover gaskets. The cam seals were dry. Car runs/ran just fine. The Audi dealer was definitely taking me for a ride. Once I took the time to look into it myself I learned about the frequent oil leaks (valve covers, cam seal, cam chain tensioner) so I feel pretty confident just sealing everything. The CCTs eventually leaked enough to send smoke from the cats out the hood vents while idling at stop lights  

So in the end, I think the cam tensioner lost adequate oil pressure and threw the CEL. 

I just had the transmission tail shaft seal replaced since that was also leaking. So far I've dropped about $8k (bought car for $6,800) with 99k miles including new pads and rotors on all 4 corners. Hopefully I'll be good to go for a while. Engine _should_ be solid for another 50k or so. 

I'm enjoying the avant now that I've got some confidence in her. 

Thanks for the help :thumbup: 

Andy


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