# Anyone with a cold start misfire...



## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

Was battling with the problem for a while. Always was cylinder 2 misfire at cold start. Once the idle dropped to normal ran smooth as could be. Did the typical swap plugs and coils and so on. Still had the same problem. Finally bought the injector and got a chance to put it in. Does not look like it was the injector at all. There was so much carbon build up around the intake valves it was insane. Of course cylinder 2 was the worst. We did still change the injector just in case. Runs so great now and not so much as a hiccup at start up







So for those of you with this problem, I hope this helps, and i guess the intake is coming off either way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*

interesting...


_Modified by JLT at 10:27 AM 1-15-2009_


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## jpimp61 (Mar 22, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (JLT)*

how many miles on ur engine?


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

im at 35,000 and my cyl 4 is cold start misfiring even with new exhaust valve lashes (tsb) and new plugs and coilpacks. dealer suspects heavy intake valve deposits. they will let me know today...


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jpimp61* »_how many miles on ur engine?

128,500

_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_im at 35,000 and my cyl 4 is cold start misfiring even with new exhaust valve lashes (tsb) and new plugs and coilpacks. dealer suspects heavy intake valve deposits. they will let me know today...

I'd put money on it at this point http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I did forget to mention that the exhaust valve tsb was done on my car when we were trying to figure this out. Did all of them just in case. Had to do the cam so we did them at that point


_Modified by majid at 11:18 AM 1-15-2009_


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## M0riarty (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*

I am battling the same cold start misfires, only mine is on cylinder 1. They used to be more sporadic, but now it seems every other or 3rd cold start causes it. I am at 43K now, car has done it since about 30K.
Only thing I have tried so far is swapping coil packs - no difference. Plugs were replaced at 20K with 1 step colder plugs. Finally bringing it to the dealer next week to have them look at it.


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## Murder'd (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (M0riarty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M0riarty* »_ ... with 1 step colder plugs. 

I can see this as being your issue. Swap plugs back to stock and see if your cold start issue goes away.


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## M0riarty (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (Murder'd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Murder’d* »_
I can see this as being your issue. Swap plugs back to stock and see if your cold start issue goes away.

Car is chipped though - it was my understanding that the car should run better on 1 step colder plugs if chipped/modded. Is this not the case?
I'll try the stock plugs.


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (M0riarty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M0riarty* »_
Car is chipped though - it was my understanding that the car should run better on 1 step colder plugs if chipped/modded. Is this not the case?
I'll try the stock plugs. 

Don't hold your breath though. I tried the same thing


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (M0riarty)*

my dealer let me know today that when they checked my intake manifold it was nasty and they cleaned it out with throttle body cleaner and some tool. they cleaned up the valves and its supposedly cold starting fine now. they are going to let it sit over night and crank her in the morning and watch for misfires. Hopefully, we'll be in the clear and I can have my car back. Believe this - my car has been out of service for over 20 days bc of parts shortages etc.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *majid* »_Was battling with the problem for a while. Always was cylinder 2 misfire at cold start. Once the idle dropped to normal ran smooth as could be. Did the typical swap plugs and coils and so on. Still had the same problem. Finally bought the injector and got a chance to put it in. Does not look like it was the injector at all. There was so much carbon build up around the intake valves it was insane. Of course cylinder 2 was the worst. We did still change the injector just in case. Runs so great now and not so much as a hiccup at start up







So for those of you with this problem, I hope this helps, and i guess the intake is coming off either way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I'm not sold it was the intake over the injector, but it's near impossible to say for sure. Even at 20K miles, my intake ports looked like complete ass.
I'll say this...if you're gonna venture in there to clean your intake ports, hit the dodge dealer up for a can or 3 of their combustion chamber cleaner from the late 90's ram intake manifold campaign...that **** worked great on both our cars http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif There was quite a substantial difference from cleaning cylinders 1&2 compared to 3&4 where that stuff had a chance to soak in a bit.


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (veedubtek)*

You forgot to mention my injector looked better than yours. Even with 100,000 more miles on it lol


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (veedubtek)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4209615
































_Modified by JLT at 6:40 PM 1-19-2009_


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...d=739
































Was this what you meant to post?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4209615


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

yea lol oops


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*

they said my intake manifold was narsty and cleaned it thoroughly, they also did the TSB. IDK what fixed it but it seems fixed, no codes on the vag com. tomorrow is going to be an unusually cold day for here so I'll crank her over in the am and see how she idles etc.


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*

OK - so my car is misfiring again looks like the dealer didnt fix my shizurnum.


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (JLT)*

Guess that means injector


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*

Yes, I believe that it has to be the injector, but I cannot understand what exactly is wrong with the injector that would cause it to do this. Perhaps it is a leaking injector, while the car is off and sits over night, it leaks fuel into the cylinder. at Start up, there is too much fuel in the chamber and it misfires....what do you think?


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## majid (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_Yes, I believe that it has to be the injector, but I cannot understand what exactly is wrong with the injector that would cause it to do this. Perhaps it is a leaking injector, while the car is off and sits over night, it leaks fuel into the cylinder. at Start up, there is too much fuel in the chamber and it misfires....what do you think?

The carbon build up caused the leaking, so yes you are correct


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*

my contacts at APR concur and gave the same response, however, I can't confirm til it goes back in the shop...AGAIN.


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

got car back. the dealer did two things. they removed the injector and installed a new one, and they removed the intake manifold, soaked the valves in cleaner, and then wire brushed them clean. they claim to have removed tons of carbon deposits. idk what to believe, but we'll see how it starts tomorrow its going to be around 39 here so we shall see.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (M0riarty)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M0riarty* »_
Car is chipped though - it was my understanding that the car should run better on 1 step colder plugs if chipped/modded. Is this not the case?
I'll try the stock plugs. 

I'm running factory plugs & I'm ok (13,000 miles on a Stage II engine)


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Did some VAG COM logging today, and saw i get misfires at idle, when rpms are at the lowest.If i turn on the A/C and the rpms bump up a bit, the car idles as smooth as butter, which leads me to believe its probably
a bad lifter.A sticky valve would also do the same, but the thing is i don't see any fluctuations in my vaccum gauge....
I'm thinking of doing all of my lifters but thats gonna cost a lot.
Just figured as long as i'm taking the cover off, i might as well replace them all (and not just the exhaust ones).Is that gonna be a waste of money ??


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

that sounds to me like a tuning issue. of course, check the things we've checked. i am about to go out to my car and start her up. fingers crossed I don't get a CEL and that lame unsteady idle.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_that sounds to me like a tuning issue. of course, check the things we've checked. i am about to go out to my car and start her up. fingers crossed I don't get a CEL and that lame unsteady idle.

That could be the case, but it only happens on cylinder 3, and AFAIK there is yet to be
any "individual cylinder tuning.." ...LOL
My thoughts are on a sticky valve or lifter, that just can't move properly at low rpms.
Once the rpms rise, it works properly once again,
Funny thing is i have ZERO misfires at WOT...


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

Pm'd you


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

well I would have told you on the phone but I'd swap injectors first, then I'd have the intake manifold manually scrubbed. Then I'd clean intake valves, and if that does not fix, I'd do exhaust lashes (the tsb).


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
That could be the case, but it only happens on cylinder 3, and AFAIK there is yet to be
any "individual cylinder tuning.." ...LOL
My thoughts are on a sticky valve or lifter, that just can't move properly at low rpms.
Once the rpms rise, it works properly once again,
Funny thing is i have ZERO misfires at WOT...
 
Your #3 injector is bad IMO , but you like doing things the hard / costly way







. 
The reason Why the mis-fire goes away when you put the A/C on is it puts a load on the motor which makes the injector m.s. rise giving more fuel= no misfire . 
The mis-firing is because the injector is not allowing enough fuel at that very low rpm making it run a little lean= misfire .







Bob.G


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

I've been having these misfires since i got my car, although not in such frequency
My injectors have about 20000 miles on them.I had them changed to S3 ones when i put the S3 kit on.I highly doubt it's the injector....


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_I've been having these misfires since i got my car, although not in such frequency
My injectors have about 20000 miles on them.I had them changed to S3 ones when i put the S3 kit on.I highly doubt it's the injector....

These DI injectors have very tight tolerances and very problematic that's why VW is getting away from them in the new TSI and you will see the next DI motors will end up with a pizo injectors IMO its just the cost of these to manufacture is still high. 
I put a set of 4 RS-4 injectors a few months ago and they where BRAND NEW and I was getting slight mis-fire in cyl 1 so I changed that 1 again and I have had zero mis-fires ( cold or light throttle or @ WOT ) ever since .







Bob.G 
new doesn't always = good 



_Modified by rracerguy717 at 1:05 PM 1-24-2009_


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Well i still don't think its the injector..
Truth is there are many things that could be wrong, one of them also being the rings in my motor (AXX).
From the cost point of view, removing the manifold and replacing ONE injector is gonna cost me more than doing ALL of the lifters, just because i'm also doing the cams....
Car runs awesome at WOT though.....At least i've got that...


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

It is your fuel injector. They are not all winners bro. Swap the fuel injectors.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_It is your fuel injector. They are not all winners bro. Swap the fuel injectors.









Well resurrecting this thread....
I did the injector swap and cleaned my valves...
What a PITA...(pics soon)
Good thing is i got rid of the banjo bolt and went to a tube design
Bad part is.....NOTHING CHANGED !!! AAAAAAaaaaAAAAAA...






















I gona kill this f...n car......Now i only hope its not the rings.....


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

part number(s) for conversion from banjo bolt to non-banjo bolt? Thanks.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

UPDATE:It seems i might have spoken too soon (crosses fingers)
After a run of "italian" tuning, the idle seems a bit better.I do get the
occasional misfire, but not nearly as i used to.Is there any reasoning behind the thought of "getting the effected cylinder cleaned out" before the new injector actually shows it worked ?
What i mean is, is there any possibility the cylinder might be "dirty" from
the bad injector, and things will improve even more ??
Stay tuned...


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Well..the idle misfires are back again, and in full force....
Waste of time and money replacing the injector (at least i did it myself
and didn't waste even more money on a shop)
Now things are getting trickier, cause a compression test and a leak down
test are in order.Also, i'm probably getting my lifters replaced when 
doing the cams.Its just that it simply doesn't feel right installing cams, when the car is running poorly with the stockers on...
Oh and i'm also going back to the factory airbox to see whats up.
Removed the MAF and although i had misfires they were NEGLIGIBLE, and not of the same "intensity"


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

maybe its your tune


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_maybe its your tune

Nah..
I'm only experiencing misfires at IDLE, which means there is some form of "leaking", be it from the
valves, or the rings maybe.Could also be the PCV, but i've checked that and it doesn't seem to
be faulty (its quite possible it has failed internally though, so i'll have to double check.
Misfires have gotten progressively worse over time, but still ZERO at WOT...
I swear this motor is gonna drive me NUTS !!!


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## TAIVWAUDITECH (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

You are not the only one!I have 2 customers that have this EXACT same issue!!New CP/plugs,etc.,etc.,drives fine,misfires in 1-2 cylinders only at idle,and if you unjplugther MAF,it "cleans up" the mis-fires a bit.........Don't get offended......but I sure am glad I gots a 1.8t!!


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

How many misfires is acceptable? how many or how bad does it need to be before HEY! there's a problem here. just curious


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (TAIVWAUDITECH)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TAIVWAUDITECH* »_You are not the only one!I have 2 customers that have this EXACT same issue!!New CP/plugs,etc.,etc.,drives fine,misfires in 1-2 cylinders only at idle,and if you unjplugther MAF,it "cleans up" the mis-fires a bit.........Don't get offended......but I sure am glad I gots a 1.8t!! 

Hmmm...
So what do you reckon is the diagnosis ??








All the tests turn out normal ? (compression etc)
As for the "how many" part, well for me even one is too many.
Its IDLING FFS !!! If the motor doesn't work properly at its most relaxed, then
what does that say about the health of the car ??
P.S. TAIVWAUDITECH btw do these customers happen to have an AXX motor ?I know
its a European motor code, but i've heard there were a few early A3's that made it to
the U.S. market...


_Modified by GolfRS at 7:29 AM 4-28-2009_


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## 20vGinster (Mar 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

I have the same damn problem! 2006 FSI 85k miles, stock software. It only misfires in cylinder 3 on cold start/high idle. Once the idle drops down the misfires go down to nearly nothing.
Changed the plugs, coil pack, injector, tried running it with the intake flapper unplugged. Same misfires. Temperature or weather outside do not matter. Going to do a compression check on cold start next. My thoughts are it could be a sticky valve on the guide. 
Have you tried running Seafoam through the intake manifold?


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## 20vGinster (Mar 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (20vGinster)*

oh another thing.....fuel pressure at idle is around 50 bar....when it sat overnight before I replaced the injectors it bleeds down to around 6 bar and as soon as the car is started it is back up to 50 or so. I have not check the fuel pressure overnight since I swapped the injector (was yesterday). Not sure if that is normal or not. The cam lobe for the HPFP looked fine too.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20vGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vGinster* »_I have the same damn problem! 2006 FSI 85k miles, stock software. It only misfires in cylinder 3 on cold start/high idle. Once the idle drops down the misfires go down to nearly nothing.
Changed the plugs, coil pack, injector, tried running it with the intake flapper unplugged. Same misfires. Temperature or weather outside do not matter. Going to do a compression check on cold start next. My thoughts are it could be a sticky valve on the guide. 
Have you tried running Seafoam through the intake manifold?

Seafoam ??? LOLOL...
Man i just spent last weekend replacing an injector BY MYSELF, and also 3 hours of 
intake valve cleaning job...BY HAND...
What is Seafoam again... ???


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (20vGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vGinster* »_oh another thing.....fuel pressure at idle is around 50 bar....when it sat overnight before I replaced the injectors it bleeds down to around 6 bar and as soon as the car is started it is back up to 50 or so. I have not check the fuel pressure overnight since I swapped the injector (was yesterday). Not sure if that is normal or not. The cam lobe for the HPFP looked fine too.

Fuel pressure drop is normal when the engine is not working.
Nothing to worry about....


_Modified by GolfRS at 12:40 AM 5-9-2009_


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## acascianelli (Sep 29, 2005)

I'm having this exact same problem with my 1.8T Beetle. I have APR Stage1 on the car right now, and switching back to stock helped it alot but it's still misfiring on cold startups before the secondary air kicks in.
I've tried...
new plugs
new coils
swapping plugs
swapping coils
new fuel filter
cleaning mass air sensor
new mass air sensor
cleaning throttle body
new coolant temperature sensor
...all with no success.
I'm going to try running a can of seafoam through the intake manifold and see if that helps.


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## Murder'd (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: (acascianelli)*

A misfire is probably occuring due to the decrease in the ability of the tumblers to do their job probably from sludge build-up or the valves being so caked with sludge that they are severely restricting flow.
What is the mileage of everyone with a misfire that has replaced everything and when was the last time you seafoamed or had your valves cleaned?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (Murder'd)*

Are u guys who are having these misfire issues running stock pcv setup? Just wondering if anyone who is running catch cans or pcv bypass systems are having these problems. 
It seems to me that getting rid of the pcv derived gunk/sludge/carbon/deposits is priority #1 for this engine.


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## acascianelli (Sep 29, 2005)

No catch can
~76000 miles
Running Mobil1 since ~40000 miles.


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## Murder'd (Jul 16, 2008)

*Re: (acascianelli)*

Guy A has problem X at 76000mi w/ stock PCV
Guy B has problem X at 85000mi w/ stock PCV
Not a bad start to proving my theory.
Edit: GolfRS did "clean" his valves when he changed injectors and still had the same problem so maybe that's not it.


_Modified by Murder'd at 3:44 PM 5-19-2009_


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## acascianelli (Sep 29, 2005)

Where is the PCV valve located? How hard is it to replace?


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (Murder'd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Murder’d* »_Guy A has problem X at 76000mi w/ stock PCV
Guy B has problem X at 85000mi w/ stock PCV
Not a bad start to proving my theory.
Edit: GolfRS did "clean" his valves when he changed injectors and still had the same problem so maybe that's not it.

_Modified by Murder'd at 3:44 PM 5-19-2009_

Yeah, thats true...And to add to the above, people may thing valve deposits are some
sort of a TFSI Demon, but other than some slight feeling of the engine being "more free",
there was ZERO effect on performance.And trust me i had A LOT of carbon fouling in there.
I'm gonna go through and eliminate all the known causes for my ****ty idle (PCV, other leaks, MAF
sizing), and then i'm probably gonna end up installing new injectors.....


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Yeah, thats true...And to add to the above, people may thing valve deposits are some
sort of a TFSI Demon, but other than some slight feeling of the engine being "more free",
there was ZERO effect on performance.And trust me i had A LOT of carbon fouling in there.
I'm gonna go through and eliminate all the known causes for my ****ty idle (PCV, other leaks, MAF
sizing), and then i'm probably gonna end up installing new injectors.....









got my injectors sitting here in a box, waiting for me to decide to do 'em. Not sure that's how I want to spend Mem. Day weekend tho...


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
got my injectors sitting here in a box, waiting for me to decide to do 'em. Not sure that's how I want to spend Mem. Day weekend tho...

Are you doing a swap cause of misfires ?
Or part of a new setup ?
Or maybe thinking of selling them ?


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (acascianelli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *acascianelli* »_Where is the PCV valve located? How hard is it to replace?

It is not just a failing PCV that is the problem. A normally functioning stock pcv system is also the source of the nasty deposits seen by so many (see referenced thread for an example photo) and as stated by VW in the patent, the source of misfire problems.
Since this pcv-derived gunk can affect so many things, improper airflow, incomplete combustion, misfiring, promoting fuel dilution, fuel injector deposits, valve deposits, who knows what else (tumbler clogging?), (sludge promotion?), other??? It seems to me getting rid of this source of gunk is crucial. If it can't be eliminated completely through a bypass system, at least a catch can should be used along with seafoaming and fuel injector cleaner use in the gas. All IMO.
From my thread here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4387972
VW themselves, in the patent for this engine, say that eliminating the PCV would solve the deposit problems but they can’t due to emissions:
"Gasoline engines with direct injection of the fuel into the combustion chamber, i.e., not into the intake port, suffer especially from the problem of the formation of carbon deposits on components.
...the successful ignition of the stratified charge depends to a great extent on the correct development of the internal cylinder flow, which ensures reliable transport of the injected fuel to the spark plug to guarantee reliable ignition at the spark plug. However, a coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may interfere so strongly with the tumble flow that ignition failures may occur there as a result.
...Furthermore, the coating of carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve causes flow resistance, which can lead to significant performance losses due to insufficient cylinder filling, especially in the upper load and speed range of the internal combustion engine. In addition, the carbon deposits in the neck region of the intake valve may prevent correct valve closing, which leads to compression losses and thus sporadic ignition failures.
...These deposits on the valve stem can result in flow deficits due to undesired swirling and turbulent flow around the globular carbon deposits. This may persistently interfere with the formation of stable tumble flow from cycle to cycle."
"A possible solution would be to keep these sources of deposits away, for example, from the intake valve, by completely eliminating exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port. However with the combustion behavior of modern reciprocating internal combustion engines, at least external exhaust gas recirculation and the introduction of blowby gases into the intake port are absolutely necessary for reasons of emission control and fuel consumption, so that this approach is not possible. "
- Thanks to Rl_RS4 for finding this patent info. Check out his thread listed at bottom of this post for more info.
...Quote, originally posted by A3_yuppie »
Which patent are you getting the quoted passages from?
http://www.google.com/patents?...A1,M1
This was found by RL_RS4
_Modified by saaber2 at 3:18 PM 5-19-2009_


_Modified by saaber2 at 3:24 PM 5-19-2009_


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Are you doing a swap cause of misfires ?
Or part of a new setup ?
Or maybe thinking of selling them ?

Mad Misfires (near continuous at idle) on cyl #4. figured I"d clean the valves and toss 'em all in there while I have it all apart. Stock all. 97K miles at this point. got the "D" DV also, that'll go in also. ....But I have to set up the blue ring pool first for the kiddies..I have 5 and they rate over any of this VAG stuff.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
Mad Misfires (near continuous at idle) on cyl #4. figured I"d clean the valves and toss 'em all in there while I have it all apart. Stock all. 97K miles at this point. got the "D" DV also, that'll go in also. ....But I have to set up the blue ring pool first for the kiddies..I have 5 and they rate over any of this VAG stuff.









Hmmmm....
Yeah...I would first do a "coil swap" test to see if the misfire follows,
but i'm guessing of you don't have any at WOT, coils are ok.
If you do decide to swap them, my advice (now after all my trouble) would be to change 
ALL OF THEM.That's so you don't have to worry about the injectors again IF you continue misfiring
on other cylinders also.


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Hmmmm....
Yeah...I would first do a "coil swap" test to see if the misfire follows,
but i'm guessing of you don't have any at WOT, coils are ok.
If you do decide to swap them, my advice (now after all my trouble) would be to change 
ALL OF THEM.That's so you don't have to worry about the injectors again IF you continue misfiring
on other cylinders also.

been playing musical coils for too long...yes, this is why I have 4 injectors in the box. I'm not doing this again til 150k miles....don't have time for this baloney.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

I am surprised no aftermarket place has come up with a catch can setup for the PCV. FWIW, when I was running a supercharger on my GTI VR6 a few years ago, I used a Campbell Hausfeld inline air filter on the PCV hose. This did an OK job of filtering out oil from crankcase blowby; however since the bottle was so small, it needed cleaning out every week- not hard, but a PITA for a lazy b*tt like me.








An Amazon link to it - http://www.amazon.com/Campbell...OAFGO
Ideally, on the 2.0T, there seems to be enough space on the front DS of the motor for a PCV catch can from Greddy or Summit Racing so nothing goes into the motor.


----------



## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

*Re: (pal)*

I don't know if this relates at all to what you are experiencing but I had a bad cold start misfire a couple of months ago. The odd thing was it would come back even when the car was warm if I drove behind a big truck that was kicking up snow or if it started snowing hard.
I took it in and they replaced the Low Pressure Fuel Sensor and it didn't help at all, then they replaced the Coolant Temperature Sensor and it did nothing to help the issue. The final thing was they replaced the Intake Air Temperature Sensor and this solved the issue. I was at about 73k miles, I paid for the first two sensors and they paid for the last one.


----------



## acascianelli (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (dmorrow)*

edit...nevermind


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (pal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pal* »_I am surprised no aftermarket place has come up with a catch can setup for the PCV. 

Try BSH or FFE or run road tube (vent to atmosphere) without a catch can ($25 DIY) or atmospheric with catch can or run bypass to exhaust


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

me too slight misfires, nothing big though


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_me too slight misfires, nothing big though

I wonder if seafoaming the valves and lubro-moly fuel injector cleaner in the gas (I'm impressed with this stuff for under $6) would clean it out enough to stop minor misfires?


----------



## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_
I wonder if seafoaming the valves and lubro-moly fuel injector cleaner in the gas (I'm impressed with this stuff for under $6) would clean it out enough to stop minor misfires?

I'll get maybe 1 or 2 @ 1st start up & that's it...


----------



## rbradleymedmd (Feb 24, 2007)

Golf, I know the few times I have come across a soft code for misfire @ idle was due to my intake flaps not reaching the full range of motion. By chance, have your run the readaptation for the flap motor since your issues (I'm guessing you have, just curious as it always seems to solve my issues whenever I run into an idle-misfire issue)?


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (rbradleymedmd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rbradleymedmd* »_Golf, I know the few times I have come across a soft code for misfire @ idle was due to my intake flaps not reaching the full range of motion. By chance, have your run the readaptation for the flap motor since your issues (I'm guessing you have, just curious as it always seems to solve my issues whenever I run into an idle-misfire issue)?

Actually its funny you should ask that cause its something i was thinking of asking about
in the forum.
I do adaptations to both my TB and the flaps, but what seems pretty
weird to me is that on block 142 in adaptation,
i can just see the lowest setting and the highest setting appears as zero...
After adapting, it locks on the highest setting as well (around 3. something)
but after turning the key on and of again, the setting is again ZEROED...
So i really don't know if that is normal..
Also, i've done EXTENSIVE logging at idle, and what i've been able
to see is that there is really BIG fluctuations in lambda values
with the car running on idle, ranging from 0.95 to 1.12 !!
Also, my MAF values get f*cked up at times, reading from as low as 1.8 g/s
to 3.5 g/s
One last thing i find really peculiar is that my vacuum value and 
my MAF values, fluctuated when i press the clutch pedal !!!








Thats when i also get most of the misfires.
Is there ANY connection between the clutch pedal and the cars idle ??
Really weird stuff...


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (majid)*

I have this problem on a 3.0
Cyl 4 misfires 20 times on cold start and 1 misfire from any one of the other cylinders that changes.
then stops, Vag Com clears and car will run fime for the rest of the day unless it gets cold again.Cold I mean below 70
Funny it went away for ten days and CEL went out on it's own.
the only thing different about those ten days was two things 
1) the low temp here in Florida did not drop below 70 degrees
2) It did not rain and I did not wash it.
I realy think it has more to do with a sensor /computer misinterprtation.
I got it to misfire warm by enriching the startup mixture so thats got me thinking it's computer related.
OPEN LOOP PROGRAMMING- Preset parameters used in cold operation. Once coolant temperature reaches a set temperature the vehicle enters CLOSED LOOP PROGRAMMING in which it adjusts to reality. 
The problem does not follow, coils, plugs or injectors.
It lasts 20 seconds at best. 
Sea foam had no effect. but if theres alot of carbon it wouldn't
I am still testing mine (everything I can imagine or read about) 
I thought you might like to read this
TSB 01-04-06 Update For an Audi 2.7t
Programming (Flashing) Engine Control Module (ECM) to Correct Cold Start Engine Stumble (Aug. 30,2004)

After Cold Start Engine Runs Rough. Vehicle may Stumble, Buck and or Shutter on initial acceleration. Engine may stall at idle when transmission is shifted from Neutral/Park to Drive/Reverse.
Condition usually lasts for less than 30 seconds after engine start. Afterwards the vehicle starts and runs without any complaints.
Condition associated with the following DTCs.
P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0301-P0306 Cylinder 1 through 6 Misfire Detected
That was sudgested to me by an Audi tech on-line BTW
Audi so far won't just flash the ecm for me, I guess they want a piece of the Diag Pie. But that's not going to happen. So I'll have to just do all the diag myself and right it down for them. I'm not paying for them to determine that my new coils and plugs are ok etc,etc...
I do like the temp sensor idea because the problem goes away at higher temps. I'll try to trick it with a hair dryer and see what happens.
_Modified by jackmup at 5:42 AM 5-22-2009_


_Modified by jackmup at 6:03 AM 5-22-2009_


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (jackmup)*

well this is what I have come up with.
Cylinder 4 valves are most likely clogged up with carbon causing a decrease in compression. Not seating correctly.
Below the 70 degree threshold the ecm operates in open loop and dumps extra fuel into the cylinders and retards the timing as far as possible on a cold start.
After you have run a while and shut the engine off the engine heat keeps the air inside the chamber warm for quite some time so it will restart in closed loop because it registers it a s being greater than 70 degrees.
I don't think the cylinder is capible of igniting all of this extra fuel with the compression loss and retarded timing.
So this is what I did.
I put two bags of ice on my MAF/IAT sensor to trick it into thinking it was cold out (otherwise I have to wait until tommorow morning) I used the unisetting program or lemmiwinks would work and I turned the startup fuel enrichment to 10% then it misfired 5 times. So I turned it to 0% and the misfires stopped.
so that will help me for now or really for ever because 68 is low low in Florida.
I am going to now pull the injectors, Turn Cyl 4 to intake valves closed and pour seafoam down the injector hole and let it soak. I then will attemp to stick a long thin round gun cleaning brush down there and scub what ever I can. Then suck as much crap out the spark plug hole as possible.
If that doesn't do it I'm going to leave it be for a month and see if it improves and basically contimplate if I feel like pulling my heads or my pudd durring my July Vacation. maybe it will loosen it enough. I fear if I don't address it now it will only get worse. 
What really needs to be done here is to pull the heads brush the valves and lap them back into the seats. (I just did the T-B too)
I'll let you know how I make out with the sea foam.


_Modified by jackmup at 10:25 AM 5-22-2009_


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (jackmup)*

jackmup, that is awesome info! Thanks for posting that! 
Once you get it cleaned up (targeting cylinder #4 with seafoam and/or mechanical removal is a great idea btw) you might consider a pcv bypass or catch can if you don't already have an anti-pcv gunk solution already. Here is a pcv bypass method that has been working great for me: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4387972
Also, what about misting or pulling in seafoam in the intake close to cylinder #4, is that possible (sounds like u may have tried that already?)?



_Modified by saaber2 at 10:37 AM 5-22-2009_


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (saaber2)*

Oh yeah baby you bet I'm installing a catch can. I'm going to get started in about an hour. I plan to document the process thoroughly with pics because it was so hard to find info yet so many have the problem. Thanks for the link.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (jackmup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jackmup* »_Oh yeah baby you bet I'm installing a catch can. I'm going to get started in about an hour. I plan to document the process thoroughly with pics because it was so hard to find info yet so many have the problem. Thanks for the link.

Sorry to disappoint you, but cleaning the valves will have ZERO
effect on your problem....I should know...


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Sorry to disappoint you, but cleaning the valves will have ZERO
effect on your problem....I should know...

Well technically I'm barely scratching the surface the intake valves on the inside are the cleanest. The only way to clean them is to pull the head and remove them then lap them back in. That's going to take me 4 days. I don't have the time right now or the parts.
So I figured it's worth a shot. I removed alot of nasty carbon.
The adapting worked though and it is not misfiring anymore. I don't think you would have a problem all summer but below 50 you would have to start messing with the enrichment again. 
I think the actual problem may be that the ECM is sending too much gas into that cylinder. Or one of the valve seats has a piece of carbon stuck to the seat. But how are we to check the ECM the only way is to just flash it with the most recent version and that's pricey just to see if it works.
That TSB is doing something like that. It must be happening to all 2.7tb engines.


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (jackmup)*

Well I'm done I did al of the cylinders. filled each intake cahmber up and brushed it with long tube brushes the best i could and let it sit for an hour as i rotated cylinders then I sucked the crap out and did it again. the crap that came out chunky and looked like a diesel oil change. It leaked therough to the cylinder as it sat so I was sucking that crap out too. in the end I blew everything out the best I could put it back together and took it for a burn to blow it out. It feels more responsive.
Tomorrow morning will tell the story. will it misfire or will it run.
Funny it didn't misfire once with all that crap in there. ECM is stupid on open loop.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (jackmup)*

what are you using to suck the solvent and crap out--being flammable and all...


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (iGen3)*

I am using a siphon for soap. Weird set up but it works. I had the thing so i used it. they are cheap It wasn't the greatest but it works.
I had a snap-on vacuum that runs off shop air but it's effin missing in action. It is the best thing for sucking out liquids from your car. You will need to modify it of course but works great. this thing will suck the crap out like mad.
Link to vacuum; http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog...talog
















*Just to reiterate my problem is a COLD START MISFIRE ON CYL 4.* I am still working on the permanent solution/cause. It is a fuel related or combustion issue due to fuel enrichment in open loop. I actually think the ECM is either giving Cylinder 4 injector too much or too little fuel ON OPEN LOOP. This car runs so smooth on closed loop you would not even know it's running. I obviously can't check the exhaust valves without pulling the head but we all know they are sure to be
messy.
I used unisettings to turn Fuel enrichment to 0% on start-up and did not misfire this morning. So it is the ECM's fault on open loop. I will continue to test the actuation of Cylinder 4 injector,(which is good by the way-cleaned and tested and rearranged them all) I will let everyone know what if I find a difference in injection time relative to the other injectors. 
I have not turned the enrichment back to 100% yet to see if the intake cleaning made a difference. I only get one shot a day unless I trick the MAF by cooling the intake air. I would rather see it on normal cold start in the morning.
I'll keep you posted, I'm getting close now.



_Modified by jackmup at 8:37 AM 5-23-2009_


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (jackmup)*

oh. Mine is also very much at hot--hot ambient and hot motor. #4 just misfires continuously. what did you use for solvent? some have suggested GM top clean. 
I have my 4 injectors and clips, probably won't get to it this weekend though, too much yardwork to do. Got the pool up though, filling up now. ; )


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_oh. Mine is also very much at hot--hot ambient and hot motor. #4 just misfires continuously. what did you use for solvent? some have suggested GM top clean. 
I have my 4 injectors and clips, probably won't get to it this weekend though, too much yardwork to do. Got the pool up though, filling up now. ; ) 

have you checked your coils,plugs and injectors. You are experiencing a different problem than me. just on the same cylinder.
Test the compression/leak down


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## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: Anyone with a cold start misfire... (jackmup)*

cleaning the valves was not it.
Cyl 4 has 197-200 psi all others at 187
the misfire does not occur if there is pressure in the adjuster.I learned that after the compression test. It started cold fine.
Pulling the valve cover and going to check the cam and lifters for wear
I tested the injector volume, all working evenly It's not them.
I aligned the throttle valve, not that either.
It is either a worn lobe, lifter or something to do with the cam chain adjuster. something causing cylinder 4 to have more compression.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Well good news.
The car is 99% fixed, and the problem was....yep...you guessed it...
the f***n PCV....
Now you are gonna say "well that was the first thing you should have
tried", but actually...I DID !!!
I had an older PCV that had replaced thinking i was loosing pressure a loooong time ago, but OH YES...that old PCV was obviously busted also...
Thing is all of you that have the "older" systems (the ones with 2 PCV valves, and no rear valve), you might not be losing boost, but you might be vacuum leaking.
So if you have misfires, even if your boost curve is fine, the PCV might actually be bad....
Now i said 99% fixed, cause the other 1% is the god damn cover threads, that are going sour ONE AFTER THE OTHER...I just noticed a SECOND thread has gone bye bye, and now the PCV is barely making firm contact...Gonna fix it pretty soon though.....


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

UPDATE: Still having one or two misfires (barely registering with VAG COM, but can still be felt), but my PCV isn't tightened well enough, PLUS
it seems to be fairly common for the oil cap to leak vacuum (well mine does anyway).
It seems now its a multifactor issue, since my O2 sensor fluctuates from
0.92 to 1.03 at idle, which would either indicate a response to the vacuum leak, or the sensor is going nuts also (is it possible to get false readings without a CEL or error ?).Anyways, i have a spare O2 sensor that will be going in pretty soon.
Other than that, my short term trim has gone up slightly, and the car idles much much better.
Too bad a bad injector can't be ruled out though...Would have liked to get at least that of my mind....Good news is... CAMS ARE ONE STEP CLOSERRRRRrrrrrrrrr.....


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

I have the old PCV..2 up front none in back...but replaced it with a new one a month or so ago...no change....


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_I have the old PCV..2 up front none in back...but replaced it with a new one a month or so ago...no change....

There are different PCV's according to your setup.
First makes sure you got the right part number for your car.
Then, there are also other parts to look for, try testing you oil cap
for leaks, and also check your injectors


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## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*



GolfRS said:


> Well good news.
> The car is 99% fixed, and the problem was....yep...you guessed it...
> the f***n PCV....
> Now you are gonna say "well that was the first thing you should have
> ...


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jackmup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jackmup* »_
Yours was constantly misfiring though..right?
mine goes away 10-20 seconds after start up and does not come back.-until tomorrow morning that is.
I am down to the ECM on mine . I checked the cam and lifters and I don't have that problem. For some reason the ECM is spazzing on that cyclinder on cold start, The knock sensor on cyl 4 has higher voltage than the others and may be more sensitive. the ECM flash for the 1.8t controled the sensitivity to the knock sensors. We'll see, I dont have anything else to test.

It was misfiring cold or warm, but it had its days (obviously when the PCV got stuck).
I am still having one or two misfires but i'd have to fix the threads on the cover first
to be able to say there is another reason two.
As for you, you seem to have things pretty much under control having done so many checks
in such a professional manner.Hope you get it solved soon.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Here's a new update..
Car is still misfiring even with the bew PCV.
Bad news is TWO valve cover bolts are now stripped, but the engine
maintains vacuum,.... in between misfires...Pressing firmly on the
PCV doesn't change anything, so i'm starting to rule this factor out...
I am now thinking of changing injectors,and O2 sensor...other than that....i'm lost.....
Really weird though how in the begining we had the fuel cuts, and now we have the misfires.....


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*

Think I can offer a little insight here hopefully. I have battled with Vw TechSupport numerous times for this issue. I have finally gotten the district rep. for the area on my side and YES, the factory PCV system is to blame! I ran EuroJet STG 1 fix until BSH developed the catch-can. Phil hooked me up and it has been AWESOME!! Not a single misfire on my car and I use SeaFoam every 5K through the intake to clean up. I will be pulling my intake soon and checking things out and all plus pulling my injectors to inspect again, but I would highly recommend anyone with a 2.0FSI to look into catch-cans. 
Here is a 2.0T, 2006 Jetta at 80K with 93 oct. fuel and Castrol5W-30 syn. changes from start........TechSupport said replace head, I removed intake and dividers and cleaned all vlaves off and soaked in parts cleaner(with valves shut) overnight and then reassembled and SeaFoamed afterwards.........ran like a "bat out of hell!!" with no misfires. Just makes sure to have a spare set of plugs for after the SeaFoam...lol.
Cyliner 4








Cylinder 2








Both these cylinders had misfires cold only. Counter would say 650-700 misfires before idle settled down!!








Sorry to be sooo long, but hope that helps a little. And it's not carbon....more of an oil-mixed goo(oil, fuel vapor and water)
-J. Hines


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (jhines_06gli)*

http://www.bshspeedshop.com/st...age=1
AWESOME product!!!!


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (jhines_06gli)*

jhines_06gli, excellent post! And awesomely disgusting photos! A catch can+ seafoam at oil change+ fuel injector cleaner every once in a while is a good way of dealing with the pcv goo but the can doesn't stop 100% of the contaminants, needs to be emptied periodically, can create a pressure drop, and can freeze up.
Completely eliminating the pcv gunk can be accomplished without these drawbacks by routing it to the exhaust or even directly below the car. Here is a DIY:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4387972


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saaber2* »_jhines_06gli, excellent post! And awesomely disgusting photos! A catch can+ seafoam at oil change+ fuel injector cleaner every once in a while is a good way of dealing with the pcv goo but the can doesn't stop 100% of the contaminants, needs to be emptied periodically, can create a pressure drop, and can freeze up.
Completely eliminating the pcv gunk can be accomplished without these drawbacks by routing it to the exhaust or even directly below the car. Here is a DIY:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4387972



This routing you are suggesting...Have you actually tried it ??








Cause testing for my misfires i blocked the PCV for mere seconds and it made the
fumes enter the exhaust,and ALL HELL BROKE LOOSE...
Needless to say i was smoking like crazy for about 3 miles, and had to say its my CAT going bad
or the Police would stop me for spraying toxic warfare materials to the atmosphere.
Please don't suggest something if you haven't tried it.....


----------



## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_Please don't suggest something if you haven't tried it.....
 
Please don't say anything negative about a thread unless you have read it. 
This DIY does not block the PCV like you are suggesting. Quite the contrary. It uses the exhaust gases to "pull" gases out of the crankcase. I have been running it for 900 miles and so far oil consumption has decreased, mpg has went up by 2 mpg, and I have a bit more power. Those are beneficial side effects however. The real benefit is that there is no way any of the pcv gunk can make it to the valves, there is no chance for freeze up, and the crankcase is still being evacuated under vacuum. If you read the thread and links in the thread you will understand why this system works. It was tested against many other methods to evacuate crankcase gasses and was found to be the best in terms of cost and effectiveness.


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*

I have checked everything and I can shave in my intake valves thank god. My cams and lifters are good. 
I'm having the ecm flashed this weekend. When I change parameters with unisettings it behaves beacause it can't do what it wants when altered/adapted outside of the audi parameters. 
I'd bet my exhaust valves on cyl 4 look like that.
soaking the intakes through the injecter ports seriously helped acceleration and smoothed it out as well. Well worth the 10 bucks and two hours. Got more out of it than fancy air filter that's for sure.


----------



## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (jackmup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jackmup* »_
soaking the intakes through the injecter ports seriously helped acceleration and smoothed it out as well. Well worth the 10 bucks and two hours. Got more out of it than fancy air filter that's for sure.

what did you use to clean the valves?


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
what did you use to clean the valves?

I closed the intakes on each cylinder and poured sea foam in through the injector port. then used tube brushes like for cleaning rifles and did the best scubbing i could bu the sea foam will eat it up. Then i sucked it back out. and did it again.
You will get some into the cylinder, suck that out as you go. I would start the engine when done and blow what's left out then change the oil because some of the sea foam will make it past the rings.


----------



## B3sat16v (Jan 23, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (jhines_06gli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jhines_06gli* »_Think I can offer a little insight here hopefully. I have battled with Vw TechSupport numerous times for this issue. I have finally gotten the district rep. for the area on my side and YES, the factory PCV system is to blame! I ran EuroJet STG 1 fix until BSH developed the catch-can. Phil hooked me up and it has been AWESOME!! Not a single misfire on my car and I use SeaFoam every 5K through the intake to clean up. I will be pulling my intake soon and checking things out and all plus pulling my injectors to inspect again, but I would highly recommend anyone with a 2.0FSI to look into catch-cans. 
Here is a 2.0T, 2006 Jetta at 80K with 93 oct. fuel and Castrol5W-30 syn. changes from start........TechSupport said replace head, I removed intake and dividers and cleaned all vlaves off and soaked in parts cleaner(with valves shut) overnight and then reassembled and SeaFoamed afterwards.........ran like a "bat out of hell!!" with no misfires. Just makes sure to have a spare set of plugs for after the SeaFoam...lol.
Cyliner 4








Cylinder 2








Both these cylinders had misfires cold only. Counter would say 650-700 misfires before idle settled down!!








Sorry to be sooo long, but hope that helps a little. And it's not carbon....more of an oil-mixed goo(oil, fuel vapor and water)
-J. Hines

How did you manage to get all the valves closed? Removed the CAM?


----------



## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B3sat16v)*

Well, As far as my problem is concerned;I have a cold start misfire on one cylinder,no 4. It misfires only after sitting for a while or overnight. It will misfire about 40 times then go away and run fine all day and restart fine as well, until sitting overnight. (it does not misfire all day long) however if your does misfire all day,pull the valve cover and mic the cam lobes and inspect your lifters for wear or collapse.
I have tested and swapped my brand new coils, and the ECM signal.
I have cleaned and volume tested my injectors and the signal.
I checked my cam lobes and lifter buckets all working and in spec.
I have disconnected the knock sensors and still get a misfire from the crank speed sensor. I know it's real I can feel it bumble.
I have 205 psi in that cylinder in the morning all others are 187 psi
So shoved a bottle brush in the cylinder and found it had a slight amount of oil in it. ( a little oil will seal the rings even more and create higher compression and that can cause detonation). Since that cylinder has higher compression I know the valves are sealing. I think it's the valve seals leaking overnight. I have ordered 15 new seals for that head (3.0 V6 )and also new lifters for cylinder 4 and a head gasket, etc,etc... I'll be pulling the head within two weeks. I'm going to replace all that crap and give it a good cleaning. Unfortunately I won't have the time to do both heads in one weekend so I'll just have to wait for the other to go. However it is possible to do the lifters and valve seals with the head on. 
Wish me luck.


----------



## martziniuk (Aug 15, 2009)

Watching this thread with interest. I have a cylinder 3 misfire when cold until it gets up to normal running temp.


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## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (jackmup)*

Ok I pulled my heads. Cylinder 4 had about 1 ounce of oil in it. Due to the valve seals leaking. I dissembled the heads and cleaned them with easy off BBQ and pressure washed them, lapped the valves, installed new valve seals, put it back together. If you clean them that way don't let it sit longer than an hour that stuff is Evil. 
COLD START MISFIRE (P0304) PROBLEM SOLVED!















It took me 3 Long Long days, Parts were all gaskets, o-rings and head bolts, coolant and oil. But the Labor was to say the least intensive. 
The car starts the best I have seen since I purchased it and I am getting 22MPG (up from 19) So that was a nice surprise.
To test and see if this is your problem.
Pull the spark plug out of your problem cylinder in the morning.
Shove a long whit pipe cleaner bent to lower side of the cylinder. It should not come up wet if it does. Determine if it is oil or coolant.
Next do a compression test if you have 185 or higher (mine was 203psi) and you have oil in the cylinder not coolant Replace your valve seals. If it's coolant and /or you have low compression that would be a head gasket. If it's Oil and you have low compression it could be a leaking seals and a hung valve or head gasket.
But don't worry You'll be replacing the head gaskets along with the seals. So happiness can be found all around








There also is a method for doing them with the heads on the car but you can't inspect and lap the valves or inspect for and clean excessive carbon build-up with them on the car. However it would be a lot faster to replace them on the car. 
By the way they cost .95 cents each.


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## martziniuk (Aug 15, 2009)

I think my problem may be similar to yours. Does VCDS show up any misfires now?
With mine it seems strange the misfires do not occur until about half a mile into the journey, then disapear when warm. Also they only happen around 2500-3500 rpm, the rest of the rev range is fine. You would think there would a decent amount of blue smoke on start up too??
My car does use alot of oil, 1 litre to 1000 mile roughly.


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## jackmup (May 22, 2009)

*Re: (martziniuk)*

That sounds like something else if it were the seals it would happen after sitting for a while, worse on colder days. It would misfire, stumble on startup than run better after 20 seconds or if you rev the engine and blow the oil down the pipe.
Your could be coil related, wiring, timing???


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## martziniuk (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: (jackmup)*

I have already tried a new coil pack and swapped plugs around. The coil pack made it a little better but I did notice that the spark plug in the cylinder where the misfire occurred had more white deposits on it than the others.








My fault codes are:
001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys: Incorrect Flow 
P0441 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
misfire on cylinder 3 
random misfire
Out of interest what was your oil consumption like?
Thanks


_Modified by martziniuk at 5:05 AM 9-15-2009_


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## ThaProwla (Nov 13, 2007)

i haven't read this whole thread but i'm pretty sure that there is a tb for this conceren on this these motors. i'll get back in a lil bit with the tb #.


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## JLT (May 18, 2008)

*Re: (martziniuk)*

prob injectors...that was my prob with cyl #4 cold start misfire.


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## martziniuk (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: (JLT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JLT* »_prob injectors...that was my prob with cyl #4 cold start misfire.

Its starting to look that way with mine, the colour of the plug compared to the others may suggest this. Why the hell should they get blocked? Interestingly when running 99ron instead of the 95ron petrol the misfires just about disappear










_Modified by martziniuk at 11:56 AM 9-21-2009_


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## dubbin415 (Nov 1, 2007)

I've just developed this problem on cylinder 1, and wanted to resurrect this. Any news of whether you guys found out if it's the injectors, lashes, lifters, or intake valves?

Thanks guys


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## dubbin415 (Nov 1, 2007)

resurrecting. any solutions?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

clean your intake valves.


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## 719MKV.t (Aug 4, 2009)

Sooo i just developed this problem, i am revo stage II+, 3" exhaust, cai, water meth with 2 injectors, kmd fuel pump upgrade and the sort... i don't know what cylinder but i think its my w/m pooling in the intercooler piping and i think that's it but im not sure...any insight?


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## TBomb (Sep 23, 2009)

719MKV.t said:


> Sooo i just developed this problem, i am revo stage II+, 3" exhaust, cai, water meth with 2 injectors, kmd fuel pump upgrade and the sort... i don't know what cylinder but i think its my w/m pooling in the intercooler piping and i think that's it but im not sure...any insight?


If you think it's your meth, then stop spraying and put your tuning back to stock (not sure if you can do that with revo) and see if it goes away.


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## kieran_l (Jun 4, 2012)

Looking through this, it kind of seems like no one really got a resolution to this problem directly. It seems like some things partially fixed it but no full resolution. 
Im keen to see a resolution for this as I am have cold start misfires until operating temp is reached. The misfires are from idle to 2500rpm and are only on cylinder 3. 
Injector has been replaced, coil packs, new pcv, purge valve, spark plugs, sea foam, inlet gasket. To me it has to be electronic because it stops misfiring at the exact same relative operating temp and rev range. 
Must be a resolution out there somewhere! :banghead:


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## lionel2341 (Jan 3, 2005)

*misfires*

I think it's the ECM program and fuel enrichment during cold starts, my cyl #4 consistently misses untill temp is normal then the car runs perfect, and yes I've changed everything and cleaned the valves, and nothing changed. this morning all hell broke lose and cyl 234 all missed and gave me code 0456 small evap leak. So I'm starting to lean to a program problem with cold start enrichment in open loop at start.


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## kieran_l (Jun 4, 2012)

that sounds logical to me lionel. It doesnt really make sense for it to be a mechanical issue as it always goes away at the exact same operating temperature. Is there a resolution to this, or is it back to the dealer?


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## boltsjr (Mar 15, 2004)

*#2 misfire*

2010 tiguan misfire on #2 only at idle. replaced the coil and the plugs still there. the damned car has 31000 miles on it. I had a similar issue with my old vr jetta misfires and coil packs and that car was 10 year older you would think they fixed this crap in 10 years. anyway I got a notice that the warranty for the intake manifold has been extended maybe that has something to do with this?


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