# LED eye-brow turn signals -- DRL later I hope.



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Since I'm NOT a mini-van fan at all I had to find ways to spice up this fat-assed beast. It needed to have a meaner look, to. Well, rims and lowering always helps but that is more money than I want to spend on my wife's daily-driver right now. So I needed to give it a mean frontal look and when I saw VWroutanvanman's Audi-style LED array I knew I had to do the same!

Of course, I gave it my own twist -- I put my LED array on the top of the headlight using a dual-element array. This means it has white AND amber LEDs! After searching I found these in 60cm length from the ebay seller CreativeEos:









I'll post how I installed them but for now here's what they look like:
How they look at night: http://youtu.be/uAUECRUXoQo
Day time, particularly from the rear side: http://youtu.be/Sr75SJdNsJQ
This shows why I haven't connected the DRL LEDs: http://youtu.be/00wxGYhHd0k

Right now the turn signal LEDs work all the time, which is good, so even if a bulb burns out the LEDs still fire  I want the DRL LEDs on all the time as well, like VWroutanvanman's, and I'll likely use his method as well for powering them.

This is where I need some electrical help. I need to disable the DRL LEDs when the turn signal operates. I'm thinking a relay on the turn signal would trigger the DRL contacts to open when activated. Thus, the DRL LEDs and the amber LEDs would alternate, giving a dual flash. A sort of "wink" feature for the LEDs. 

Can I use a standard automotive relay? I figure putting the coil on the ground side of the turn signal LED which would be terminals 85 & 86, power to terminal 87 and DRL LED connected to terminal 87a. When the turn signal fires the electricity goes through the relay coil, which pulls the relay arm and opens the circuit. Since the coil is just a winding of wire, to me, it shouldn't cause any additional current draw, right? I'm fuzzy about this part.

Additional suggestions?


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

With a spare fuse just in case, I tested the relay idea. No joy  The relay barely triggered, meaning that it did pull the arm a teeny-tiny bit but not enough to pull it fully away from the contacts. The turn LEDs did illuminate.

Maybe I need something that requires less voltage, like a transistor? I know very, very little about making such a switch except that a transistorized switch would likely work.

I think for now I'll just wire in the DRL LEDs. The signal LEDs can be seen but ya really need to look to see them (let's call them "subtle"  ), something 99% of the drivers fail to do


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Here's a picture :facepalm: of the turn signal illuminated:









And here's the install: http://www.aircoolednut.com/cmgallery/thumbnails.php?album=148. Now I need to figure out how to power the DRL LEDs and keep them from illuminating when the turn signals come on (wink feature).


----------



## wrxin (Jan 8, 2012)

I installed mine in the same fashion as VWroutanvanman. They are wired off the ignition right now so they are always on when the ignition is on. I posted something about my install too.

I don't drive the van much but the other day I noticed that when you indicate, the DRL on that side turns off. I thought that was pretty cool for a mini van. You usually only see that on Audis and the like.

Which got me to thinking. Right now our LED lights stay on constantly (of course even when indicating). The DRL turns off as a factory standard thing.

I haven't done this yet, but I'm going to try a relay that is triggered from the DRL that will turn on or off the flow of power to the corresponding LED. So basically use the the fact that power is cut to the DRL when the turn signal is put on to cut the power to the LED as well, using a relay.

The DRL being on would close the relay and allow power to flow to the LED. When the DRL is off (when you turn on an indicator), the power would be cut to the LED.

The only flaw to this plan is what happens at night. I don't actually know what the DRLs are. I don't know if they are the regular lowbeam headlights and that they have a reduced amount of power supplied as DRLs and full power with the headlight switch on or if they are separate lights entirely.

Either way, power is cut somewhere when the turn signal is put on. That's what I need to find to cut power to the LEDs...

To answer your question, I don't think you could use the turn signal power with a relay to cut power to the LED DRLs. The relay would flash with the turn signal and your LEDs would flash the opposite of the turn signals. Interesting light show perhaps.

To my point, there is wiring in the Routan somewhere that fully cuts power to the factory DRLs when you put on a turn signal. That wiring is the key.


----------



## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Call me crazy but why not just use the DRL wiring(tap into it) to power the white LED's and then use the turn signal power (tap into that) for the turn signal. I know at night it won't cut the White led power but it's during the day time that they want to cut the power so that other drivers can see you front turn signal. You also can get an inline convertors to "dim" the signal. These are what I will be putting on a snowmobile I'm building with some LED's--eventually. I like this idea so I'd like to see it work 100% I'm not a fan of hacking the wiring like how I suggested but it could be worth doing.

http://www.bikerhiway.com/radiantz-...erter-for-flexible-led-light-strip-p-312.html

These are similar to the lights I want for my sled.
http://www.bikerhiway.com/radiantz-flexible-led-light-strip-red-leds-p-310.html


----------



## naudia4 (Sep 22, 2007)

You should be able to wire up a pretty simple circuit using a Mosfet-P transistor to shut off the white LEDs when the yellow LEDs are activated. You could even wire it up with a simple RC component in addition to the Mosfet-P to keep the Mosfet-P in its open state for a pre-set amount of time (based on the time constant of the RC circuit) to keep the white LEDs off .

Here is a simple diagram of if you were to do it with just the Mosfet-P


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

naudia4 said:


> You should be able to wire up a pretty simple circuit using a Mosfet-P transistor to shut off the white LEDs when the yellow LEDs are activated...
> Here is a simple diagram of if you were to do it with just the Mosfet-P...


 Okay, I know about the DRLs and their 'wink' feature. I thought about that but abandoned it when I saw that it no longer works when the head lights are ON (this include Automatic mode). Bummer.

My other quick idea was to put the amber LEDs on the DRL circuit and the bright white LEDs on the turn signal circuit. That would work but it, of course, would be a reversal of the lighting colors. Which negates what I'm looking for: Audi-style DRL LEDs.

Naudia4, YES!, that's what I'm talking about!! A "simple" digital circuit. The light show aspect 58 mentioned is correct but that doesn't matter -- people don't pay attention so such a "show" would get it. However, your knowledge surpasses mine. Though I could do the soldering I have no idea what would be the proper part(s) for this, unless the counter person knew what a MOSFET 9540N would work on an automotive 12v system...? (I know of a local, non-Radio Shack electronics store that would likely carry such items). Would it really be that easy? Please, don't tease me


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Ya know, that MOSFET and a 1 or 1.5 (roughly) second RC timer would work at keeping the light show from happening and without causing too much of a delay when the turn signals were turned off :thumbup: Now, making that happen is another story...


----------



## monsieur2 (Apr 24, 2007)

*12V NC relay*

Try a current limiting resistor in series with the white circuit. That should tone it down, or source some brighter amber LED strips to use as a turn signal. You could also hook up a 12V normally closed relay, using the blinker as﻿ an input to the DRLs (I haven't tried this personally, but I think it would work). This would turn the DRLs off during the blink cycle, and on when no blink signal is present. The DRLs and turn signal would alternate when using the blinker. I personally think the DRLs look good, and would just use the stock blinker.


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

I know the resistor would tone down the white LEDs but then that would defeat the purpose of having them bright, which is what I wanted. It just would've been nice if the amber ones had equally bright output.

I tried a 12V automotive relay in parallel and there isn't enough juice or time during the 'blink' to fully trigger it. I put my VOH meter on the LED circuit and it's getting 12V. I'm guessing it requires a tad bit more time than what the blinker is giving it to pull the arm down enough to open the circuit.


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

*Teaser picture*

DRLEDs hooked up. Bed time now. Will do pictures soon & update web album.


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Album updated with install. I'll add the wiring diagram later. It's really pretty simple. There's a single wire that connects the DRL (white) LED arrays together. The fuse tap sends power to that connecting wire -- imagine an upside-down "*T*", with the vertical part of the "*T*" the power feed and the horizontal part of the "*T*" the wire connecting the two LED arrays via a wire tap. You can see the fuse tap power feed coming out of the fuse/relay box as it's the red wire, just below the lid lip.

I hope to get some daylight pictures of the DRL LED array tomorrow. The turn signals work as I haven't changed that setup.


----------



## monsieur2 (Apr 24, 2007)

Air_Cooled_Nut said:


> I tried a 12V automotive relay in parallel and there isn't enough juice or time during the 'blink' to fully trigger it. I put my VOH meter on the LED circuit and it's getting 12V. I'm guessing it requires a tad bit more time than what the blinker is giving it to pull the arm down enough to open the circuit.


That sucks that this didn't work. Blinkers usually have some circuit that slowly ramps up the blink current, then ramps down to open, then back up..... Perhaps you can bypass this by tapping into the relay for the turn signal and sending that to your DRL cutoff relay. I tried flipping through my Bently manual to find a diagram, but couldn't find one. They don't seem to be to detailed on the electrical system.


----------



## VWroutanvanman (Feb 12, 2011)

*Audi style driving lights*

I tried both types of installations of the driving light LEDs (top of lamp and what I settled on, bottom of lamp) and mounted them on the bottom because it looked more Audi-like. But I also liked the way the light was amplified when mounted on the top part of the lamp, where it shone through the edge of the lamp. I like the look both ways. Maybe I'll put yellow turn signals on top, and keep the bottom ones too. I've been wanting to get Silverstars for the headlights so the colors matched the driving lights, but I'll need 4 lamps to do that. When I get to that, it'll be mod # 10 or 11. Nice job on the install and good luck figuring out the wiring. What does MOSFET stand for?


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Okay, finally got time to take some more "after" pictures. They start on page 2.










I'm not an electronics expert so I'll let one of those explain what a MOSFET is, however, I can tell you that if you have a motorcycle then you'll DEFINITELY want a MOSFET regulator/rectifier instead of the typical, decades old shunt-style!

*VWroutanvanman*, your pioneering install :laugh: was my motivation. I had no idea surface mount LEDs had gotten that far  Look at my last picture in my album and you'll see the difference a couple millimeters makes in the light throw with the optics at the top of the head light to the LED array.

Yes, I can see where having the array at the bottom would give a more even output. Since the array is covered in a clear kind of squishy jacket, and given how flexy the body material are, I think you could put an array under the whole light. However, bridging the bumper/fender gap would be a challenge :sly: Now, if you can stick the array to the bottom of the light housing... :thumbup:

I just wish the supplier had a 90cm array. I have a 30cm I was going to attach to the front of the head lamp, to extend the front of the brow, but since I already have the tough stuff done (electrical) I think later I'll just remove the 60cm array and put in a longer one because having to deal with the extra wiring of two arrays (or more) per headlight could get ugly -- like more connectors, more chances for wiring issues which are no fun to trouble-shoot.


----------



## monsieur2 (Apr 24, 2007)

Air_Cooled_Nut said:


> I just wish the supplier had a 90cm array. I have a 30cm I was going to attach to the front of the head lamp, to extend the front of the brow, but since I already have the tough stuff done (electrical) I think later I'll just remove the 60cm array and put in a longer one because having to deal with the extra wiring of two arrays (or more) per headlight could get ugly -- like more connectors, more chances for wiring issues which are no fun to trouble-shoot.


Check out Amazon.com or Ebay for cheap LED strips. I've ordered a few from Ebay (they come from China). You can get 5meter strips for 15 or 20 bucks, and cut them to the desired size. At Autozone that would buy you a 12 to 18in strip. Look for the SMD3528 or SMD5050 LEDs as these are the larger, brighter ones. Also look for high density (300 or 600LEDs per 5meters= 60 to 120 LEDs per meter, or about 1.5 to 3 LEDs per inch). If I were to buy more now I would go through Amazon so you get shipping from the US and don't have to wait 2-3 weeks for them to arrive on a boat from China.


----------



## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

Yeah, I know about the various sizes and cutting. The ones I got, though from China, took a week to get here and shipping was free. It was a better deal than Amazon all around. Thanks for the tip on the LED size, I'll have to look into that. The important part was to get the LEDs facing out, which requires the use of side-firing LED (for lack of a better term). There were larger, brighter LEDs but they faced the wrong direction


----------



## serega12 (Sep 14, 2013)

I'm thinking about running a single super bright led strip. Positive wire will be tapped into the parking positive. Negative wire will be tapped into torn signal positive. When the turn signal turns on, the led strip is off alternating. Done it before on my HHR. Planning on feeding the strips into the open space that can be reached through front maker light (inside the headlight itself). Front turn signals will be dual element white LEDS)


----------



## fattymatty20 (Aug 21, 2013)

serega12 said:


> I'm thinking about running a single super bright led strip. Positive wire will be tapped into the parking positive. Negative wire will be tapped into torn signal positive. When the turn signal turns on, the led strip is off alternating. Done it before on my HHR. Planning on feeding the strips into the open space that can be reached through front maker light (inside the headlight itself). Front turn signals will be dual element white LEDS)


I would be very interested in seeing this set up once you are done and knowing how you did it. Right now I have swapped out my turns for resisted amber only LED bulbs and have upgraded my DRL/highs to 2000 lumen LEDs (stock halogen H11's are 1350 lumens) with a voltage control box so when they are in DRL mode they are getting the full ~14.5ishV not the stock ~8ishV which maintains their brightness at all times. Keep me/us posted with your progress on this mod.


----------



## eucalifornia (Oct 30, 2015)

*DRL's....Are they weatherproof?*

I can't seem to tell if you put the strips on the outside of the headlight covers...I think you did, but I can't tell! Could you confirm?


----------

