# FAQ: O2J Transmission Oil Change



## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change*

To preface, this is for an '02 GTI 1.8t 5spd. The procedure will be very similar on an 02a, 02b, 02c, and 02d type transmission. 
Note that for Mk5 Cars they changed the drain & Fill plug style. There is an updated tool you need to buy if you want to follow this procedure on the Mk5. Also, there may be slight differences in the under-engine plastic shields. The basic procedure is still the same.
Ok, a few questions I've pulled after a good amount of research...
1) What type of oil?
--BG Ultraguard 75W90 Full Synthetic, Part#750 (NOT #750A)
---This is reportedly sold as GM Synchromesh, Part#12377916
--Redline MT90 (Slow to warm up, but wonderful once it does)
---Use in Warmer Climates (0F +)
--Redline MTL
---Use in Colder Climates
--BG Synchroshift
--Royal Purple Max Gear 75W90
--Amsoil synth sae 75W90 MTG
--Castrol Syntec 75W90 GL-4
--Chevron Delo 80w90 (This is GL4+GL5 Boron Based, so it won't hurt your synchro. Many report this superior to everything)
--Specialty Formulation MTL-R info buy
---No known long term testing of this oil...please comment if you've used this

_Quote, originally posted by *dave_* »_ - cold temperatures (below 20F); Shifting is hard until car is warm, then it is OK. Cold shifting slightly improved over stock.
- cool temperatures (30 - 40F); Shifting is pretty good once car is warm.
- warm temperatures (50 - 60F); Shifting is OK, not great, not crap.
- anything warmer (70 or above); Once the transmission is hot, the shifting becomes very notchy. 


_Quote, originally posted by *ikuto* »_So far Shifting with MTL-R is a little notchy when cold, but once it warms up it's smooth again like the Redline stuff. I've been getting 90F temperatures in my area lately and shifting isn't notchy at all driving for about an hour. IMO It still definitely feels better than the OEM stuff. Only had it for about 2500 miles so far. I used this because it was recommended on Bobstheoilguy.com comments and couple threads on vortex.

Factor Fill Part # G 070 726 A2 - Highly recomended 
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=192534

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...132884&page=39 - lots of love for the G070. It's an updated formula and is fully synthetic.


--Factory Fill Part # G 005 100 A1 (Not recommended. After reading some 38k miles blackstone reports that this fill turned to 10W oil. I can't recommend it. Use one of the others listed above)
--Use Pennzoil Synchromesh at your own risk (not GL4 OR GL5 rated, but seems to work very well)
--Do NOT use Amsoil Series 2000 75W90

1.1) Oil Spec
--GL4 is recommended
--Do not use GL5 as it contains extra additives which will harm your trans. Also, the GL5 is too slick and your synchro relies on a bit of drag. Only use GL4 to ensure proper operation.
--They make GL4 + GL5 compliant oils (these are ok)
--Use only synthetics
2) Volume of oil needed?
--2.1 litres , 2.2 quarts
3) Oil Change Procedure
--Note: You do not need to change the transmission oil at a particular temperature. Just make sure you change it on a level surface and you fill it to the very bottom of the check hole.
--Get your car nice and hot
--jack it up on level ground (Car must be level)
--Remove Under Engine Plastic Tray by first removing the (4) T25 Torx Screws holding it in place
--unscrew check plug (on side of transmission facing driver side, 17mm hex)
--unscrew drain plug (on bottom rear of transmission , 17mm hex or special tool *)
Note: Check plug and drain plug are identical
--Drain transmission. Leave the plug out.
--Put long funnel and tubing from engine compartment or feed a line to your fluid pump
--Dispense a small amount of clean oil into transmission check hole to flush out any debris left at the bottom. 
--Install Drain plug (apply anti-seize to threads before installing)
--Make sure car is level
--Put in 2.1 Liter (per mk4 bentley) of gear oil back in. According to bentley the check plug is the fill line. Fill until you see a bit of oil oozing out the bottom of the check hole.
--Top off until it is full. This is critical.
--Install Fill plug (apply anti-seize to threads before installing)
--Torque check plug and drain plug to 25 ft*lbs
--Wipe up any spilled oil. This is important so you can check for leaks later.
--Replace Plastic Under Engine Tray and put the (4) T25 Torx screws back in.
--Drive car
--Park, Check for any leaks
4) Necessary Tools
-- T25 Torx
-- 17mm hex, preferrably socket drive so you can torque the bolts, but a standard hex key will work. Just don't overtorque the bolts.
-- Some newer VW's, Porsches, and Audi's have replaced the hex screw with a special star screw. The manuals refer to it as tool #2567 and tool #3357. You can purchase this tool at Metalnerd Part #Part MN2567 - Gear Box Drain Bit or draper part number # HDPK1
-- Fluid Pump or funnel with long flexible tube
-- Drain Pan
5) Recommended Oil Change Interval
-- VW Official Stance: Never
-- Mechanic's Stance: 60,000 km / 37,000 mi
6) Best Place to purchase the oil
-- Impex
-- Napa | Amsoil
-- VW Dealer | OEM, $15.13 / L
-- Autobach's | Redline

_Modified by groggory at 10:54 PM 5-8-2006_

_Modified by groggory at 2:13 PM 5-25-2007_

_Modified by groggory at 2:16 PM 5-25-2007_


_Modified by groggory at 3:32 AM 5-31-2007_


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## VR6ix (Oct 27, 2003)

Is this in the MKIV Forum or VR6 Forum FAQ sticky threads yet? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Any reason to choose the other lubes instead of VW OEM? Especially for four-season use in places that get cold temps.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I've emailed some people about putting it in the MarkIV FAQ, but noone will do it. If you know the right people, please take care of this for me.
I haven't even tried putting this in the VR6 forum.


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## chickenfriend (Jan 31, 2005)

*Re: FAQ: O2J Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groggory* »_--Do not use GL5 as it contains extra additives which will harm your trans.
--Use only synthetics


Some GL-5 oils are also rated GL-4.
It turns out that deciding what transmission fluid is not as simple as selecting an engine oil. Do a search on transmission fluid and one will find multitudes of opinions, and some surprisingly contentious threads. 
The first thing to realize is that generally, there are two different types: GL-4 and GL-5, among the various weights.
Mobil 1 synthetic is not GL-4 rated, according to the label on the bottle.
I believe VW specifies a 80-90w gear oil with a GL-4 rating for the 020 transmission. GL-4 oils are for transmissions that contain brass or bronze parts. The 020 uses brass synchronizers. 
GL-5 gear oils differ from the GL-4 oils in the Extreme Pressure (EP) additive. GL-5 oils constitute the bulk of gear oils at the local auto supply store. 
The most common EP additive is a phosphorous-sulfur compound that is corrosive to brass at the concentration used in a GL-5 oil. So, they reduce the amount of this additive for the brass-content transmissions and give the oil a GL-4 rating.
Some oils use a different EP additive that is not corrosive to brass at a GL-5 concentration, so that explains why there are some oils rated for *both* GL-4 and GL-5.
Since there seemed to be a high level of enthusiasm among some Vdubbers for Redline, I tried some GL-4 MT-90 at 10 dollars a quart (and don't ask how far I had to drive to get some!). 
I thought the shifting was too notchy with the Redline, so I read more on the forums and thought I would try Pennzoil Synchromesh next, which improved shifting into gear over Redline, but I noticed that pulling out of gear required excessive effort. Both gear oils, especially Synchromesh, seemed excessively runny. *Synchromesh is not rated as GL-4 or GL-5*. It is said to be equivalent in wieght to a 75W gear oil, but I think it is runnier than that.
After reading some negative forum opinions about both Redline and Synchromesh, I really did not want to take any chances, having recently rebuilt my transmission, so I did some more research and found information on Chevron's Delo ESI 80-90W. 
Delo is rated both GL4 and GL5. The reason it can be rated at both is that it uses a new technlogy boron compound as it's extreme pressure additive that is harmless to brass. 
With Delo, my shifting with it was better than Redline or Synchromesh. The Delo cost me 3.50 a quart. You will probably have to go to a Chevron distributor to obtain it.
Here is the Chevron product information sheet:
Sure. Here is a link to the Chevron information sheet as a PDF file:
https://www.cbest.chevron.com/...age=e
and click on:
CHEVRON DELO GEAR LUBRICANTS ESI
Manufacturer's advertisment:




























_Modified by chickenfriend at 7:22 AM 3-22-2006_


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

this would basically be the same as on a 02A also


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

Added Chevron Delo to list


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

Thanks for this. The torque spec for the drain plugs were not mentioned in my Bentley manual.
Please add a T25 torx screwdriver to the tools list. There is a plastic undertray shield held in place with 4 screws that needs to be removed to access the fill hole. This is the same piece that needs to be removed for VR6 engine oil changes.



_Modified by phatvw at 6:04 PM 1-1-2006_


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## genikz (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for Chevron Delo Gear Oil. It's a little slow to thin out, but held up very well on the track with many downshifts and fast upshifts.


_Modified by genikz at 3:43 PM 3-28-2006_


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## austin neuschafer (Apr 26, 2002)

the 02a., 02b, 02c, and 02d will all be very similiar in this procedure. I recommend usinga little bit of antiseize on the thread of the plugs as I have had the drains plugs seize in under a years time. on the drain one that is and it would strip the plug when trying to remove it


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: (austin neuschafer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *austin neuschafer* »_the 02a., 02b, 02c, and 02d will all be very similiar in this procedure. I recommend usinga little bit of antiseize on the thread of the plugs as I have had the drains plugs seize in under a years time. on the drain one that is and it would strip the plug when trying to remove it









Added.


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

Nice write up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Should be a sticky.


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## dennis2society (Apr 13, 2004)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

Hi, 
I just bought a 84 Gti w/h 89 cab manual transmission, since I am new to this what is the best oil for my 5 spd?
Live in a fairly warm weather, so wanted to get the best weight for my ride.
Thanks for any Feedback!


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## Veedubgti (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

make this a sticky...........heres a bump at least


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (dennis2society)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dennis2society* »_Hi, 
I just bought a 84 Gti w/h 89 cab manual transmission, since I am new to this what is the best oil for my 5 spd?
Live in a fairly warm weather, so wanted to get the best weight for my ride.
Thanks for any Feedback!









Everything I know is in the writeup. Read and use your best judgement. I have made notes on what works best in what conditions to the best of my knowledge. Just stick to the list and you should be fine.


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## Veedubgti (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

Is there any reason Mobil 1 Gear Oil isn't on the list?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (Veedubgti)*

Here is my oil analysis on the oem oil:


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (Veedubgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Veedubgti* »_Is there any reason Mobil 1 Gear Oil isn't on the list?

Should it be? Any experience/ recommendation for it?


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## ikuto (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

Specialty Formulations MTL-R GL-4 + GL-5 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.specialtyformulations.com/products.htm
Just had it changed, Notchiness is gone and very smooth! Hope this makes it to the list.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (ikuto)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ikuto* »_Specialty Formulations MTL-R GL-4 + GL-5 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.specialtyformulations.com/products.htm
Just had it changed, Notchiness is gone and very smooth! Hope this makes it to the list.

Updated


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

nice write up, but pics would really help


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (redzone98)*

Please update the tools section:
Some newer transmissions require a star-shaped bit (Part #MN2567 from Metalnerd): http://www.metalnerd.com


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Please update the tools section:
Some newer transmissions require a star-shaped bit (Part #MN2567 from Metalnerd): http://www.metalnerd.com

Can you elaborate on which transmissions have this new screw?
Thanks.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groggory* »_Can you elaborate on which transmissions have this new screw?
Thanks.

Not sure. Perhaps the MkV cars that have the updated 02J?



_Modified by phatvw at 5:59 PM 4-23-2006_


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## dave_ (May 17, 2004)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groggory* »_
--Specialty Formulation MTL-R info buy
---No known long term testing of this oil...please comment if you've used this


I have been using this for about 10k miles. I bought the MTL-R because SF stated that is was ideal for cold climate shifting problems. Well, it helped a little when it was really cold, but now that it's getting warm out I'm going to try something else. Here are my impressions: 
- cold temperatures (below 20F); Shifting is hard until car is warm, then it is OK. Cold shifting slightly improved over stock.
- cool temperatures (30 - 40F); Shifting is pretty good once car is warm.
- warm temperatures (50 - 60F); Shifting is OK, not great, not crap.
- anything warmer (70 or above); Once the transmission is hot, the shifting becomes very notchy. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

updated


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## ikuto (Mar 18, 2002)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (dave_)*

So far Shifting with MTL-R is a little notchy when cold, but once it warms up it's smooth again like the Redline stuff. I've been getting 90F temperatures in my area lately and shifting isn't notchy at all driving for about an hour. IMO It still definitely feels better than the OEM stuff. Only had it for about 2500 miles so far. I used this because it was recommended on Bobstheoilguy.com comments and couple threads on vortex.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

updated


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

A guy in this ... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...50402 ... thread mentioned that there is a new Amsoil to use for trans. Is this an addition to the amsoil line or a replacement for my recommendation above? In other words, should I remove the above recommendation...or add to the list?

Amsoil Synthetic Manuel Transmission and Transaxle Gear Lube 75W-90 API GL-4 (MTG)


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## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*















to the vw oil.
That says alot about vw's quality and it also shakes vw's opinion of never changing the gear oil, and vw have only made even checking the oil even harder by using tamperproof plugs!








So theses are vw's faults
First they design a faulty differential, they then use inferior gear oil which they dont change!
And to make matters worse they put tamper proof plugs on the boxes!
It would be nice to see a blackstone lab report on vw's hydraulic fluid for the power steering and see what they say about that!
And if the gear oils anything to go on it may just be as bad!


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## CBHVR6 (Jul 3, 2006)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*

I've been using Royal Purple Max Gear 75W90 and i'm very happy with it.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

My metalnerd link to the MKV specialty bit is outdated. Anyone have the new link to it? I can't find it on metalnerd's site?
Thanks.


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## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

*Re: (groggory)*

Draper make the tool, just google vw gearbox drain plug tool and loads of links will appear.
The draper part number is HDPK1.


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## vw5 (Aug 28, 2003)

*Re: (animaniac)*

http://www.chevronlubricants.c...i.asp
I noticed Chevron makes the DELO "gear" lubricant mentioned here but they also make a DELO "trans" fluid. 
Anyone know the diff or have tried either? Opinions?
thanks


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (vw5)*

gear oil is generally meant for manual transmissions
where trans oil is generally for automatic transmissions


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## HilF (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_Here is my oil analysis on the oem oil:









devil's advocate: was this your first trans oil change? if so, wouldn't it be normal to find more particles due to break-in?
as for the 10w...yeeeaah...


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## apr2009gti (Sep 25, 2003)

Syncromesh is offered in two different types from Penzoil and I think GM. One of the types is just for Gl4.
Amsoil also sells a version of syncromesh.


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## alomI wolleY iTG (Dec 7, 2003)

*Re: (ryker77)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ryker77* »_Syncromesh is offered in two different types from Penzoil and I think GM. One of the types is just for Gl4.
Amsoil also sells a version of syncromesh.


Can someone go into more detail on this? And officially reconfirm this.
I have Pennzoil Synchromesh (yellow bottle from Autozone) in my car for over 25k miles with no issues.


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## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

*Re: (alomI wolleY iTG)*

Yeah GM does a synchromesh fluid but HGB i think on the forum pointed out that it doesnt say if it's for a GL4 box but seeing as it's safe for brass synchros i would have thought so..


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## atlaudispeed (Aug 24, 2005)

*Re: FAQ: O2J / O2A Transmission Oil Change (groggory)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groggory* »_
1.1) Oil Spec
--GL4 is recommended
--Do not use GL5 as it contains extra additives which will harm your trans. Also, the GL5 is too slick and your synchro relies on a bit of drag. Only use GL4 to ensure proper operation.
--They make GL4 + GL5 compliant oils (these are ok)
--Use only synthetics


You guys realize, Chevron Delo is not a synthetic? Just FYI. Whether it works or not is up for debate, but I just thought I'd point that out.

_Quote, originally posted by *Chevron's Web Site* »_Chevron Delo® Gear Lubricants ESI® SAE 80W-90, 85W-140
Chevron Delo Gear Lubricants ESI (formerly Chevron Delo Gear Lubricants) are premium grade, multipurpose gear lubricants. Approvals include MIL-PRF-2105E, API Service Classifications GL-4, GL-5 and MT-1, Mack GO-G, GO-H and GO-J (80W-90). These lubricants are the only *non-synthetic gear oils* approved by Eaton and Meritor (formerly Rockwell) for 750,000-mile extended warranty service in axles.


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## Nik S. (Dec 31, 2002)

*Re: (vw5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw5* »_http://www.chevronlubricants.c...i.asp
I noticed Chevron makes the DELO "gear" lubricant mentioned here but they also make a DELO "trans" fluid. 
Anyone know the diff or have tried either? Opinions?
thanks

The GEAR oil is GL-4 spec, the TRANS fluid is NOT. You definitely want to use the Delo Gear Lubricant ESI 80w90.
Follow the link for details: Chevron Delo Website


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## Geeked (Nov 20, 2006)

*Re: (Nik S.)*

Finally located some of this Chevron Delo 80w-90 gear oil and I wanted to share my source for anyone else in the St Louis area.
Here's where I got it, and they keep it in stock:
Fischer Oil
433 Elm Street, Washington, MO 63090-2309
(636) 239-3555ý
I'm going to change out the fluid this weekend (oem is in there right now) and see how this stuff performs. Hopefully it's just as good as everyone say http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Geeked (Nov 20, 2006)

*Re: (Geeked)*

Now that the Chevron Delo is in the gearbox, it shifts like butter! Feels like brand new, and that's with 161,000 miles on car








Unbelievable what a difference this gear oil makes.


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## jity86 (Sep 6, 2002)

I just did this in my 2000 glx jetta, i used redline MT-90, I am very dissapointed. i changed the oil in my 90k mile car had a perfect shifting trans before and know it grinds 3rd gear pretty bad. it has the proper fluid level, guess ill have to try the delo.


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## MarksManB (Jul 2, 2002)

I did a google search for Delo and have heard nothing but praise for the stuff, yet I can't find where to buy. I know it's marketed to commercial/industrial, but I'm seeing lots of people using it. Where are you getting it (besides the one shop in Missouri)??


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## kelchm (Feb 9, 2010)

MarksManB said:


> I did a google search for Delo and have heard nothing but praise for the stuff, yet I can't find where to buy. I know it's marketed to commercial/industrial, but I'm seeing lots of people using it. Where are you getting it (besides the one shop in Missouri)??


I'll second this. I'm having a hard time finding it, too.


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## MK3NORTH (Jul 14, 2004)

Just put this in my 02J, have used it before on several 020's. It works wonders for getting rid of occasional grinds, and cold shifting is nearly as good as hot.


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## CrypticApathy (Oct 2, 2009)

Ok so just to give me a piece of mind. I got GM Synchromesh # 12377916 for my mk4 03 1.8t.

Its safe to use right?


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## kelchm (Feb 9, 2010)

kelchm said:


> I'll second this. I'm having a hard time finding it, too.


My local Napa can order it in at $9.20 a liter, but they have to order a whole case of it. Not sure if I'm going to go for it or not.


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## 2004srt4 (Aug 4, 2009)

*Delo In Winter months*

does anyone know how the Delo 80w90 stands up in the winter months. i have a 1.8t mk4 and just bought some from fischer oil. i live in northern jersey so winter isnt too crazy but it does get really cold sometimes.


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## Bror Jace (May 3, 2002)

Guys, I thought I'd chime in here. It's been a few years since I last posted on this forum.

A few things: be careful of the word "syncromesh." It is used as a generic term as in any gear oil recommended for manual transmissions (typically GL-4 rated). However, it is also used to refer to some specific brand-name fluids such as the GM, Chrysler and Pennzoil synchromesh fluids.

When selecting a fluid for a given tranny, it is best to stick with a viscosity (below measured in centistrokes - cSt @ 100 degrees centigrade) that is close to the original manufacturer's specifications. As you can see, they vary GREATLY from ATF-thin fluids all the way up to 90 weight gear oils.

*Manual Transmission Oil Viscosities:*

_ATF type: 6.0 – 7.5 typical_
Honda MTF II 7.5 cSt
Royal Purple Synchromax 7.7 cSt

_GM/Chrysler Synchromesh type: 8.5-10.0 typical_
Torco MTF 8.35 cSt
Pennzoil Syncromesh: 9.08 cSt
Amsoil MTF (5W-30) 9.6 cSt
Red Line Oil MTL 10.6 cSt
Honda MTF I 10-11? cSt

_75-85 Gear Oils: 12.0-12.5 typical_
Specialty Formulations MTL-P 12.0-12.5 cSt
Castrol Syntorq 75W-85 12.0??? cSt
Nissan 75W-85 12.0??? cSt

_90 weight Gear oils: 15-16.5 typical_
Royal Purple Max Gear 14.5 (Published: 21) cSt
Amsoil MTG 14.7 cSt
Pennzoil GL4 75W-90 15.3cSt
Red Line Oil MT-90 15.6 cSt

I stumbled onto this thread while searching (again) for Chevron lubricants online. If I am able to find a retailer/wholesaler that will ship directly to me, I will post the contact information here.

*2004srt4*, any 80W-90 gear oil is going to flow rather poorly in below freezing temps. However, Delo also comes in a 75W-90 synthetic ... and that's the stuff I'm trying to find for my new S2000's diff.


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## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

Friends, do you have comments or a review about the Motul MotylGear 75W-90 (http://www.motul.com.au/product_line_up/gear_box/gear09.html)? I am planing to do an oil change in my 02J EGY 5spd tranny. According to the manual it should use G50 or G51 75W-90 syntetic gear oil but I have read that VW OEM fluid are good but out there exist better options.
For the geeks, Motul MotylGear 75W-90 is 16.7cSt @ 100ºC and Motul Gear 300 75W-90 is 15.2cSt @ 100ºC and both are GL-4 & GL-5 approved. I take those number from TDI forums. There exist a nice thread about G52 tranny fluids.
Comments are welcome.


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## Bror Jace (May 3, 2002)

*I bought a case of Delo 80W-90*

I just bought a case (12, 1-quart bottles) of Chevron Delo 80W-90 for the rear differential of my S2000. (rated GL-4, GL-5 and MT-1). A case was the minimum order.

Of course, I don't need all 12 quarts for the diff of one sports car! 

If you can't find it in your area, I'll sell off my excess quarts until they're gone. How about $9 shipped?


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## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

Friends, if you want to know a little more about the different mistery manual tranny oils that VW uses take a look at this link, http://www.fuchs-europe.de/gear-oils-cars.html.


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## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

Those fuchs oils are GL5 apart from the 75W gl4 one.

My gearbox went a few weeks back ran perfect and out of nowhere the 4th gear gave way when i was cruising up the highway.

That box did 177k miles the highest mileage gearbox i've owned.

Just had a recon box fitted by a local garage £500 for box plus £200 labour plus vat at 17.5% is £122 in flaming tax  good job it went now and not after 1st jan 2011 because the tax goes up 2.5% to 20% that would have been an extra £18  you guys have it easier than us brits. 

Well i've done a fair few miles on it so i thought i'd change the oil, just got some castrol syntrax from uk halfords on trade card for £10.39 per litre, castrol syntrax is a 75w/90 GL4 /GL5 part synthetic.

I was tempted to try the synthetic smx-s 75W/85 but in the past i've had crunching problems when hot possibley due to it being too thin 85 and too slick.

So i thought i'd go with the syntrax, i've had valvoline durablend in the 02J and that was from 123k til 177k so thats 123k on vw oil and 54k on durablend.

I'm pretty sure the durablend helped it to get the 177k, but i soppose the gears can let go at anytime due to the stress there under, at least the diff didnt go on me.

With regards to the extreme cold a 75W/90 oil will suit you good the 75W should flow better and cure possible stiffness / crunching when cold.


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## elio (Nov 15, 2006)

animaniac said:


> Those fuchs oils are GL5 apart from the 75W gl4 one.


Our gearboxs should use GL4 oils, GL5 EP lubricants can produce some damage in the synchros due to it different additives. 

I post my previous info due that exist many people, including me, looking for the best oil for our trannies. Also I need to know which oils are VW ones to compare it.


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## mcgyver7923 (Oct 16, 2003)

genikz said:


> http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for Chevron Delo Gear Oil. It's a little slow to thin out, but held up very well on the track with many downshifts and fast upshifts.
> 
> 
> _Modified by genikz at 3:43 PM 3-28-2006_


You still running this at the track? How has it held up? I use penzoil synchromesh and I'm on my second change after stock. No issues and the synchros seem to be holding up well. I'm not against a change, but so far soo good on penzoil synchromesh.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Just got my blackstone labs report back on the Lubro Moly 75W90 lube. Ran it for 30k miles in my O2J 










End result. Not good. Don't buy this stuff (or my transmission is going out...we'll see) 
Effective Viscosity: 75W90 ... 80W90 

Refilled with Amsoil GL-4 75W90 MTG


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## doctorvw (Apr 7, 2011)

groggory said:


> To preface, this is for an '02 GTI 1.8t 5spd. The procedure will be very similar on an 02a, 02b, 02c, and 02d type transmission.
> Note that for Mk5 Cars they changed the drain & Fill plug style. There is an updated tool you need to buy if you want to follow this procedure on the Mk5. Also, there may be slight differences in the under-engine plastic shields. The basic procedure is still the same.
> Ok, a few questions I've pulled after a good amount of research...
> 1) What type of oil?
> ...


What has everyone been running in their 1.8T 5-speed lately? I'm trying to determine the best fill for mine, and it seems many people are having good luck with the VW standard G070 726 A2. What is everyone else running? I need something for severe winters (down to -20F).

Also, how do I find out my transmission code? I have a 1.8T 5 speed gas engine. Thanks.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

I have amsoil 75w90 mtf. Not a huge fan... Kinda notchy.

Had vw fluid. Don't do it! The wear characteristics suck.

Had lubro moly. Wear characteristics suck.

Had redline mtl. My favorite so far.


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## cbenjes (Jan 6, 2010)

I agree. MTL has been great to me. Had some grinding problems going into 1st with both my departed '99 TDI NB and its replacement, a '98 2L NB. Once I swapped out the transmission oil with MTL, the grinding stopped within a day on both vehicles. Some folks think MTL is too light. It's been perfect for me. Sure beats replacing a syncro.


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## doctorvw (Apr 7, 2011)

groggory said:


> I have amsoil 75w90 mtf. Not a huge fan... Kinda notchy.
> 
> Had vw fluid. Don't do it! The wear characteristics suck.
> 
> ...


Where are the wear characteristics from? I read through a big thread at TDIClub, and they seem to love the OEM VW fluid (the new one G070). Did someone send for a VOA?

I also see you're in Long Beach. Outside of weather paradise, how would this fluid perform in severe weather conditions? I've got a really bad winter coming up, and need something that will perform in it.

Thanks.


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## doctorvw (Apr 7, 2011)

groggory said:


> I have amsoil 75w90 mtf. Not a huge fan... Kinda notchy.
> 
> Had vw fluid. Don't do it! The wear characteristics suck.
> 
> ...


What about people who say that Redline MTL will give you better shifting but will shorten the life of the transmission. Some say that gear oils like Amsoil 75W-90 will give you notchier shifting but are better for the transmission. Do you have any advice on that point?

Sick ride, BTW.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Look in this thread. I have an oil analysis that says in short that vw trans oil fluid is hard on the trans. Not definitive, bit enough for me

Mtl is not good at first when cold, then gets great as it warms up.

Havent had amsoil long... Seems alright so far. I can bet this stuff will work well in the cold.


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## doctorvw (Apr 7, 2011)

groggory said:


> Look in this thread. I have an oil analysis that says in short that vw trans oil fluid is hard on the trans. Not definitive, bit enough for me
> 
> Mtl is not good at first when cold, then gets great as it warms up.
> 
> Havent had amsoil long... Seems alright so far. I can bet this stuff will work well in the cold.


The UOA for the VW fluid is no longer a working JPG. Also, that was probably the G050 or G052 oil. They are now up to G070 which people seem to love. There are a few threads at TDIClub where people really like it.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=192534

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=132884&page=39 - lots of love for the G070. It's an updated formula and is fully synthetic.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Updated with the new factory fill


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## Geeked (Nov 20, 2006)

2004srt4 said:


> does anyone know how the Delo 80w90 stands up in the winter months. i have a 1.8t mk4 and just bought some from fischer oil. i live in northern jersey so winter isnt too crazy but it does get really cold sometimes.


My experience has been that it is super stiff in temperatures below 40 degrees F (to the point that it's almost impossible to shift for the first 2 minutes after starting the car). For that reason, I'm switching back to OE VW fluid.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Geeked said:


> My experience has been that it is super stiff in temperatures below 40 degrees F (to the point that it's almost impossible to shift for the first 2 minutes after starting the car). For that reason, I'm switching back to OE VW fluid.


I hear the new revision oe fluid is really good


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## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

I may try some.

I use the castrol syntrax universal semi synthetic 75w/90.

My father brought a 2000 passat and the gears were notchy, mainly in 2nd and 3rd.

It engaged reverse smooth, when you allow the gearbox to slow before you engage reverse.

So we knew the clutch wasnt at fault, it was either an oil problem or a synchro problem.

I went to the local parts store halfords and it turns out the castrol have a new range new formula ''performance series'' gold coloured bottles.

They didnt have two bottles of the universal so i went for the fully synthetic, i have tried this in the passed and it did seem to cause crunching when hot.

But my father drives steady not much high rpms so i thought it wouldnt cause him any problems.

We had it put in and it engages the gear super smooth, it did feel better when he drove it first time, but it wasnt 100% rather like 80% but after a few days of driving it smoothed out and it's beeing great eversince.


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## Geeked (Nov 20, 2006)

groggory said:


> I hear the new revision oe fluid is really good


I heard the same, and if fact that's what I just switched over to today. I can't comment on how it shifts in teh cold, but in cool temps and after warming up, every single gear shifts exactly the same--a very slight bit of notchy-ness, but no grinding (this on an O2J gearbox w over 200,000 miles on it).

I'm hopeful that it won't be as stiff in cold weather as the Chevron 80w90 fluid was


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## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

You've done well to make a gearbox last that long, i've had the rivets fail in the 020 at 160k i think well over 140k.

And the 02A lasted 155k 3rd failed and the 02j about the same but the 4th failed on that.

I can only seem to get the engines over 200k.


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## clarkma5 (Mar 2, 2002)

I'm tired of the OEM fluid. I went 55k miles on it before I changed it (trusted VW's lifetime claim, kicking myself for that one but oh well) because it was just so horrible. Went to MT-90 and loved it in the warm California summer and at the track but it's really sticky below 60-70°F. I live in WA now and I'm back to the OEM stuff because of the cooler climate but I'm annoyed that it gets kinda crappy feeling above 70-75, never feels great when it's colder than that, and it's due for a change. 

Anyway, reading this and several other threads I think I'll give MTL a go for this Washington winter. (Would love to try the Chevron Delo but it's harder to find than a unicorn with a leprechaun riding on its back) 

EDIT: Actually, does anyone know anything about MT-85? I know from experience that MT-90 needs a fair deal of heat to be in its element but MTL sounds like it might be too thin. MT-85 is in the middle (GL-4 75w85 instead of the 70w80 for the MTL and 75w90 for the MT-90?) 

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=140&pcid=7 

EDIT AGAIN FOR GREAT JUSTICE: So I read some stuff on the Nissan forums and on the Bob's The Oil Guy forums and it seems that MT-85 is really just a new product from RedLine to address A) the Hyundai/Kia/Mazda/Nissan OEM market and B) the folks who were already mixing MTL and MT-90. Considering I've tried MT-90 and know it's not going to work in the temperatures I want (but works well when it's warm), and reading that the MTL sounds like it's pushing the temp range too far in the other direction, I went ahead and ordered the MT-85. It's GL-4 and it's in between two well-known gear oils for this application so I thought...what's the risk, really? I'll report back with my impressions.


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## FACTORYBOOST (Sep 12, 2011)

Hey does anyone have any experience with the Motul 300?
I've heard a lot of good things about it, but I'm not sure about just dropping $55 for a flush on just a couple good reviews. 
If not I'll probably just go with the G 070726A2 OEM fluid since I get it for $9/L


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## doctorvw (Apr 7, 2011)

Just wanted to add my experience. I used the AMSOIL Syncromesh. This was a few months ago and it has worked GREAT. I live in a pretty cold climate, and it has performed great in low temps. It seems a lot of them now don't do so well in low temperatures. I've been really happy and would recommend it to anyone.


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## frag85 (May 17, 2007)

Local VW dealer always has G060 on hand which is what I wanted since its basically what came in it. For $13.37 a bottle its about what you'd expect for synthetic gear oil, and its cheap insurance that you are doing the right thing for the trans and not guessing by using another brand. You don't know exactly what additives other oils have and how they will react with the VW trans. 

VW's own website states that G060 (the G52 replacement) is the correct oil for it and same thing with the dealer software . G070 is for the newer trans (post MKIV). Its a german trans, just use what it was designed for. The trans is a little expensive (compared to the value of the car) to be playing oil roulette with it as far as using other oil manufacturers goes. 

Also no need to change it often. Its full syn and doesn't even go through extreme heat cycles so it should almost never degrade. After 108k miles my trans is still like new. I'm only replacing the fluid because a pivot pin o-ring has been weeping and its starting to leave drips. The level is still around the fill hole and the fluid is for the most part very clean and smells like any other syn gear oil. Maybe I got a good trans from the factory though. 


EDIT: To make a long story short, there was no O-Ring on the pivot pin.... I do not believe the dealer replaced it, let alone put the old one back in when they must have drained the trans to replaced my clutch a while ago. If the trans oil has to be drained to do the clutch that was done at about 68/70k miles, about 6 or 7 years ago, then that is what happened. The evidence of the weep from the pin started a month or so after the clutch was replaced. 

Ever since a month or so after the clutch was replaced I had complained to the dealer about an oil drip the car was leaving. It wasn't much, but every once in awhile there was a fresh drip under the car. The bottom of the trans and part of the motor oil pan was coated in the oil within a week or so of wiping everything down, the dogbone engine mount and the subframe were also coated in oil. At least my subframe and inside parts of the driver side LCA hasn't rusted because of this, haha. 

Thinking it was oil running from when the valve cover I kind of ignored it (I had replaced the valve cover and no more oil coating the side of the motor for quite a while now). The motor and trans oil were always at the proper level and It wasn't dripping everywhere so I never worried about it. It didn't smell like motor oil, and didn't quite smell like gear oil (I was thinking 75w90 and 75w140 that goes in axles and truck manual gear boxes). 

About a year ago it started to leave a small drip every time I parked. I still couldn't find the leak after wiping things down. Trans/motor were full. Last week I found it when I had the car jacked up to check wheel speed sensors and lube my caliper guide pins. It was the pivot pin on the bottom of the case. After wiping everything down, it took about 30 minutes for the oil to seep to the edges of the tab on the pin that bolts it to the case. I was very surprised and a little annoyed (at the dealer) when I pulled the pin out and there was no o-ring there.... Not the first time I had a problem after having this dealer service the vehicle and then finding a problem... I seriously doubt the o-ring would have rotted out, dissolved, or fallen apart because its not exposed to the elements and is completely covered up by the tab on the pivot pin. Any ideas? Pretty sure the tech at the dealer just forgot to put it back in.


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## madrigal77 (Oct 14, 2015)

Anyone know anything about Pennzoil platinum 75w90 gl4 gear oil? They have it down at my local lordco, but I can't find anything about it online. They also have pennzoil syncromesh, but the back says it's gl3 and the bottle looks a bit different than pics I've seen online. I assume this is the stuff I want, and they've just changed the packaging?


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## sofsport (Jan 19, 2014)

L33t A2 said:


> gear oil is generally meant for manual transmissions
> where trans oil is generally for automatic transmissions


No, gear oil is usually GL-5 rated these days and manual trans fluid is usually GL-4. It has less zddp. The synchros work better and they don't corrode as quickly. An excessive concentration of zddp is corrosive to brass parts like synchros.

I tried Royal Purple 75W90 GL4/5 rated fluid because they say they use a different antifriction additive which will not corrode synchros but I found it was a little too easy to grind the gears so I went to VW G070. There were some metal shavings in the RP after about a year. 

G070 is not thin like ATF like some say it is. It looked quite thick going in the funnel. Anyone who says it's super thin must have drained it while the trans was very warm.


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## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtFc7IpsnYs

great video I found on youtube for noob's like me lol


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