# Would I be out of my mind for not using 502 approved oil?



## 2KGL (Nov 9, 2011)

Hello everyone, I am due to change my oil soon and I have been reading some of the posts about whether or not you should run 502 approved oil. I noticed in my owners manual that the recommended oil change interval with these oils is 10,000 mi. I change mine at 5,000 mi. My car is also a 2000 with the 2.0 and has 163k mi. It is by no means under warranty. I have been running Mobil 1 5w30 HM for the last 20k mi with a mann filter and all of this talk about 502 approved oils has me wandering if I should change. The only problem is the cost of these oils. I would love to run Castrol with SLX or Liqui Moly, but they are so expensive I find it hard to talk myself into it. So I have to ask, with my car being what it is, is it really worth it?


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

In my opinion, the spec is more critical with newer engines. You have a 13 year old engine. Back in 2000, life was simpler than today. If what you have been using is keeping your engine healthy, then stick with it.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

The Mobil 1/HM is fine, but I'd use either the 10w-30 or 10w-40 versions. Both of these meet the European, ACEA A3/B4 specification. 

The VW 502.00 Spec is much more critical for VW/Audi, turbocharged and supercharged engines.

TS


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

If you're not having any problems with consumption, between changes, I wouldn't change a thing.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

2KGL said:


> Hello everyone, I am due to change my oil soon and I have been reading some of the posts about whether or not you should run 502 approved oil. I noticed in my owners manual that the recommended oil change interval with these oils is 10,000 mi. I change mine at 5,000 mi. My car is also a 2000 with the 2.0 and has 163k mi. It is by no means under warranty. I have been running Mobil 1 5w30 HM for the last 20k mi with a mann filter and all of this talk about 502 approved oils has me wandering if I should change. The only problem is the cost of these oils. I would love to run Castrol with SLX or Liqui Moly, but they are so expensive I find it hard to talk myself into it. So I have to ask, with my car being what it is, is it really worth it?


 ....no. I use Shell Rotella T6 on my 2.0T.... ever since the warranty expired.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*common sence*

:thumbup::thumbup:


BsickPassat said:


> ....no. I use Shell Rotella T6 on my 2.0T.... ever since the warranty expired.


 some here have it, some don't. use a quality product, change it regularely, you'll be fine.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## GR8 JOY (May 12, 2013)

my 07 EOS 2.0 is using oil so I'm looking into this also. 502 seems wise with a turbo but I'm going heavier to a 15w60 HPR synthetic. A few vw techs recommended that. New plugs (NGK) helped a little too. Good luck!


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## mwebb (Apr 19, 2008)

*crack smokers*



2KGL said:


> Hello everyone, I am due to change my oil soon and I have been reading some of the posts about whether or not you should run 502 approved oil. I noticed in my owners manual that the recommended oil change interval with these oils is 10,000 mi. I change mine at 5,000 mi. My car is also a 2000 with the 2.0 and has 163k mi. It is by no means under warranty. I have been running Mobil 1 5w30 HM for the last 20k mi with a mann filter and all of this talk about 502 approved oils has me wandering if I should change. The only problem is the cost of these oils. I would love to run Castrol with SLX or Liqui Moly, but they are so expensive I find it hard to talk myself into it. So I have to ask, with my car being what it is, is it really worth it?


lets just say that everyone who has replied so far has no clue 
you need to navigate to the BITOG forums european section and spend a great deal of time studying and learning 

bottom line 
in the long run 
it is very much less expensive to spend money on the correct lubricants now
as opposed to 
engine repair and or replacement followed by cat converter replacement due to inadequacy of your lubricants in the future 

pay attention to "deposit control" "resistance to shear" "ash formation" , study and learn
make your own informed choice 

so that
you
do not follow the advice of puddingheads 

of course now the puddingheads will make a big noise and call foul ...

whatever -
no good deed goes unpunished


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

mwebb said:


> lets just say that everyone who has replied so far has no clue
> you need to navigate to the BITOG forums european section and spend a great deal of time studying and learning
> 
> bottom line
> ...


Foul! This may be the funniest post that I've read here in a long time. :laugh: Thank you.

You apparently don't have any experience running oils that are not the "proper spec". And killing the cats is greatly exaggerated (unless you're burning massive amounts of oil) as there are plenty of VW, Audi, and Subaru folks running Rotella T6 5W-40 and other high anti-wear additive oils.

The Mobil1 High Mileage that the OP runs actually has a similar additve package to Castrol Syntec 5W-40 (detergent/dispersant levels and calcium levels). Although, as TooSlick mentions, the 10W-30 HM and 10W-40 HM meets ACEA A3 specs. By definition, ACEA A3 oils are more resitant to shear.

If you can point to some data that states that the recommendations given in this thread are not ideal for the OP's application (although there's no need for 10W-60), then I'm all ears. And don't simply tell me to read the European forum at bitog because I've been reading it for 10 years. You should also check the VOA forum to compare additive levels of different oils.

Would it be easier to run Mobil1 0W-40, or something similar, which can be found everywhere? Probably. Is the OP going to kill his cats or have his engine explode using the wrong oil? Unlikely.

:wave:
-Dennis


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*don't confuse the issue with common sense*



Dennis M said:


> Foul! This may be the funniest post that I've read here in a long time. :laugh: Thank you.
> 
> You apparently don't have any experience running oils that are not the "proper spec". And killing the cats is greatly exaggerated (unless you're burning massive amounts of oil) as there are plenty of VW, Audi, and Subaru folks running Rotella T6 5W-40 and other high anti-wear additive oils.
> 
> ...


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*rocket science*



mwebb said:


> lets just say that everyone who has replied so far has no clue
> you need to navigate to the BITOG forums european section and spend a great deal of time studying and learning
> 
> bottom line
> ...



did you sit next to audisquirt in class?


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

M1 HM 10w40 & 10w30 meet ACEA A3/B3, which has slightly different requirements than A3/B4 (which 502.00 meets).

By in large, for HTHS, they have the min 3.5 requirement, though TBN min is slightly lower on the A3/B3 compared to A3/B4


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

BsickPassat said:


> M1 HM 10w40 & 10w30 meet ACEA A3/B3, which has slightly different requirements than A3/B4 (which 502.00 meets).
> 
> By in large, for HTHS, they have the min 3.5 requirement, though TBN min is slightly lower on the A3/B3 compared to A3/B4


Thanks for the clarification. :thumbup:

And for the OP, there is probably very little difference at 5k mile intervals.

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/Sequences/ACEA-A3B4-10.html
http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/Sequences/ACEA-A3B3-10.html
(slight difference in sulphated ash and TBN - 2010 sequences)

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdditives/ACEA/RelativePerformanceTool/default.html

And we do not really know which VW specs Mobil1 High Mileage may or may not meet since they don't submit it for testing.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

Dennis,

Exactly right. This is the 115 Hp, 2.0L we're talking about, not some Uber motor....
LOL "Puddleheads"

TS


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## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

mwebb said:


> lets just say that everyone who has replied so far has no clue
> you need to navigate to the BITOG forums european section and spend a great deal of time studying and learning.........so that
> you
> do not follow the advice of puddingheads
> ...


Ha! Most of the current crop of posters on BITOG _*are* _puddingheads. Not like the old days when they had some really knowledgable folks onboard, right TS?


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

Shorty,

You don't see a lot of original thinking or new information on BITOG since Terry Dyson and a bunch of the other experienced people left. It's still interesting to look at the Used Oil Analysis results. However the evaluation comments would leave the average person more confused than when they started. You can't fix fundamental mechanical issues simply by switching brands of oil.

Ted


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## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

TooSlick said:


> Shorty,
> 
> You don't see a lot of original thinking or new information on BITOG since Terry Dyson and a bunch of the other experienced people left. It's still interesting to look at the Used Oil Analysis results. However the evaluation comments would leave the average person more confused than when they started. You can't fix fundamental mechanical issues simply by switching brands of oil.
> 
> Ted


Amen! 

I've long ago switched to TD's website to continue my education, and I still talk with him on regular basis too. Most of the other experienced folks are on his site as well, thank goodness.


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## cryption (Mar 28, 2006)

Where is TD at now? I left BITOG a while ago myself...


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## shortybdub (Oct 14, 2011)

cryption said:


> Where is TD at now? I left BITOG a while ago myself...


Here: www.dysonanalysis.com

He is currently employed full time by a very large diesel manufacturer in Indiana as a lubrication consultant/engineer.


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## 2KGL (Nov 9, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the reply's even though it took me a year to come back! I am probably splitting hairs here as long as it is a good synthetic and changed regularly (i.e. every 5K miles). I have since started using castrol 5w30 synthetic after using the 502 approved castrol. I would continue using the 502 stuff but the engine burns to much oil to be spending $8 a quart.


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

2KGL said:


> Thanks everyone for the reply's even though it took me a year to come back! I am probably splitting hairs here as long as it is a good synthetic and changed regularly (i.e. every 5K miles). I have since started using castrol 5w30 synthetic after using the 502 approved castrol. I would continue using the 502 stuff but the engine burns to much oil to be spending $8 a quart.


$25 for either M1 0w-40, or the new German (formerly Belgian) Castrol 0w-40, at Wally World. A few times a year it can be had for something like $22.47.


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

2.0 is easy on oil. I'd use QS Defy in 10w-30


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## T Dog (May 22, 2014)

Dennis M said:


> Foul! This may be the funniest post that I've read here in a long time. :laugh: Thank you.
> 
> You apparently don't have any experience running oils that are not the "proper spec". And killing the cats is greatly exaggerated (unless you're burning massive amounts of oil) as there are plenty of VW, Audi, and Subaru folks running Rotella T6 5W-40 and other high anti-wear additive oils.
> 
> ...



Actually, Syntec 5w-40 and Rotella used to be identical, add package. Now we have diesel oils like Rotella w/API SM or SN, which changes the add pack away from organo-metallics. Syntec 502 is likely worse in that department....it's basically an old diesel formula!

In order to have the 502 discussion, we have to separate the two things, VW warranty compliance and whether the oil (502 or not) actually functions well in the engine. YES, many many oils work great in the TURBO VW engines that need a 502-like oil. Regular 5w-30 synthetic oils work fine too, ACEA A5. A3 is just a thicker version. In USA, the thicker oil is helpful over the 10k runs, as it gets fuel dilluted. If you change at 5k anyway, a 5w-30 synth w/A5 is ideal with it's benefits.

All this goes out the window with 2.Slo, 2,5, VR6 and other NA engines. They simply do not need a synthetic oil unless you really want to go out to 10k changes, period.

I have Delo 10w-30 truck oil in my Q5 3.2, QS Defy 10w-30 in my Boxster, and QS Synth 5w-30 in the old GTI 2.0 TSI. The Boxster gets changed once a year, the other cars twice. No mfg specs in sight.


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