# Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up!



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up!... IT IS COMPLETE!*

Hello everyone!
This is going to be my first write up. Please feel free to ask questions and make suggestions! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif By the end of this build i hope to have step by step instructions so that all you good folks out there can set up some bike carbs too!








I recently traded my 77 rabbit for an 82 Caddy with a 2.0 swap. The CIS fuel system was never fully installed, and is currenty hooked up just so that it gets me from A to B. I have been researching on what route i want to go with the fuel system and have decided to go with some bike carbs! My reason for this choice is my extreamly limited budget (Currently going to tech school, typical poor student







), the ease of the install, and the effeciancy of bike carbs over Weber carbs.
My plan is to gather and fabricate all of the needed parts and then spend my Winter break installing and tuning the carbs. I will be trying to contact "Bogg Brothers" to figure out what jet sizes i need and order a few smalll parts.
Parts List Needed (please contribute if im missing parts):
Bike Carbs
Correct Jets
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Manifold
Fuel Hose
Tonight is day one of my gathering. I purchased a set of Yamaha YZFR1 Carbs off ebay. I cant wait for them to arrive so i can get them all cleaned up! Ill begin posting pics ASAP.
Here is an artical and a couple vids to get you PUMPED!
http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk...7.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb7ILh6ZxxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated


_Modified by Miami Blue at 10:35 PM 1-3-2010_


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Wow please keep us updated as much as possible. I'm also a poor student who has been looking into starting a project using carbs. This seems like a much cheaper route than dual webers.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

Yes wayy cheaper. Carbs are off a year 2000 bike and were $150. 
You in Marysville, nice. Home for me is La Conner, WA. I cant wait to go back!


_Modified by Miami Blue at 10:36 PM 11-13-2009_


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Oh wow, you live waaay up north. But hey, that's cool. When do you come back? Does your project come with you?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

Ill be coming back after i graduate Oct 22 of next year. And yes! The project will be coming back up with me!


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Well maybe by then we'll have to... you know.








Is it me or from those videos it seems like bike carbs idle a little rough? Unless they are running agressive cams?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

They may be running cams, i have some pretty agressive cams and they sound mean without the carbs. 
Mainly the noise is the carbs though, they open straight to the cylinder. No intake piping or filters muffeling the noise.


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Ah. I'm just very familiar with the sound of webers and bike carbs have a different sound which is interesting. Do you know if those manifolds have vacuum ports for the brake booster? If not how do you deal with that? I'm also curious about the dizzy vacuum advance and if you need it.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up! (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_
Parts List Needed (please contribute if im missing parts):
Bike Carbs
Correct Jets
Fuel Pressure Regulator
Manifold
Fuel Hose


I would look at the Holley FPR PN 12-804 ($30-ish everywhere I looked) and a FP gauge so you know what your pushing in to your carbs.
Jets, I bought 4 sets, 165, 167.5, 170 and 172.5 I think?! They are a few bucks each and IMO worth spending a few bucks on insted of drilling.
Wideband, your gonna need one. I bought the Inovate LC-1 with gauge. You can find them used on here from time to time.
Silicone couplers to connect the carbs to your mani.
TON of clamps! A lot of sizes! 
I'll think of more Im sure!
Cater fuel pump, 4070. I tried 2 cheaper ones with no luck.



_Modified by FROZEN337 at 5:36 PM 11-14-2009_


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Isn't an FPR unnecessary if you go with the carter 4070?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up! (FROZEN337)*

Hey thanks frozen!
Did you do this swap on a 9a engine? If so, what size injectors did you go with? I went in to the Yamaha shop to price how much it would be to get a whole bunch of different sizes, nice and cheap!
I read up on what alot of other people did for fuel delivery and was probably going to use the CIS pump and an FPR with a return line to the tank to help keep the pressure safe.
As far as a vacuum source for the brake booster, ill just T out of the manifold that me and my brother will be making. I would assume that you could a vacuum advance dizzy the same way too. For now im sticking to stock ignition though.
Down side to this swap is that i wont be able to have AC







. Here in Phoenix... its pretty nice to have. To make the carbs fit i will have to move the alternator to the AC compressor spot, an then chop off the old alternator mount.
Some other people have issues with their radiator being in the way due to where the hoses go in to the radiator. I have a duel pancake fan set up already installed though so it looks like this wont be an issue. Specially with the AC cooler gone, i can move the coolant rad forward more. 

_Modified by Miami Blue at 5:17 PM 11-14-2009_


_Modified by Miami Blue at 9:31 PM 11-14-2009_


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up! (FROZEN337)*

Does anybody have templates for manifolds they made?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up! (Miami Blue)*

Im running a OBDI ABA with the stock MKI ignition system. Prolly not the best set up, but it works for me.
I used wraping paper roll to get my angles right! They are the same size as the 1.75" Autozone exhuast pipe I used for my mani. 
I would ditch the stock fuel pump and run a low pressure unit, FPR and gauge. I picked up a cheap FRAM filter for under the hood, because Im that cheap! Had a nice glass filter but the housing split when I put the fittings in . . . 
I dont have issues with the rad/carbs all fitting, its REALLY close with my filters on, but not an issue. Right now I have some mesh from Lowes on there because I killed two filters thanks to back fire in the carbs! ALT is close to, but they dont touch.
All said and done, it is cheap, it is easy, BUT it will be a PITA getting it all TIG'd, fitted, running! Sound is awesome and it is so worth it!


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up! (FROZEN337)*

Good call on the wraping paper roll, ill have to find some. How about your flange? Did you just cut down a stock intake?
Another decision i have to make is do i want to go fancy and get AN fittings and hose or do i want to save money and go with rubber hose and cclamps. The saving money part sounds preferable to me!
Its nice getting help from some one who has done this. Props man.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up! (Miami Blue)*

I used gasket outline to make the flange. Any decent metal shop can cut it out with water jet or plasma cutter, if you dont have you.
I ran C clamps and rubber fuel line!


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: Switching to Bike Carbs. Heres a write up! (FROZEN337)*

C clamps it is then!
Did you just use the flange to cover the injector space in the head?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flyingsheep* »_Isn't an FPR unnecessary if you go with the carter 4070?

Absolute myth. If you look up the specs of the carter, it's WAY more than most sidedraft style carbs need. If it's running without an FPR, then there is also something wrong with the setup that is limiting the fueling, like too-small needle valves, or restrictions in the lines.


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

I see. On a 16v can motorcycle carbs fit without relocating the alternator? Or is a serpentine setup absolutely necessary?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

On my engine i will have to move the alternator down to where the AC comperssor is located. Which means no more AC for me http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif. Im just using the existing bracket, not a serpentine set up.
Today I picked up one of those cheap FRAM filters FROZEN was talking about







. Ill eventually get a better one.


_Modified by Miami Blue at 4:43 PM 11-15-2009_


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Oh, I had no idea you could do that. It also deletes P/S too though huh?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

Yeah, it will require a few spacers on the alternator somewhere.
No power steering in the Caddy, used the stock rack. I dont even have to worry about that. Im sure you could figure something out to keep your power steering.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
Absolute myth. If you look up the specs of the carter, it's WAY more than most sidedraft style carbs need. If it's running without an FPR, then there is also something wrong with the setup that is limiting the fueling, like too-small needle valves, or restrictions in the lines.

Quotes from Summit regarding the Carter 4070 Pump: 
"They also have an internal pressure-regulating valve" and "A regulator is not required."
The pump DOES have a regulator, but it says nothing about being adjustable.... A little bit of a misleading product description







...


_Modified by Miami Blue at 10:00 PM 11-15-2009_


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Before i go and build my manifold... Does anybody know about powerband tuning using the length of the runners?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_Before i go and build my manifold... Does anybody know about powerband tuning using the length of the runners?

I built mine to fit in the bay!


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FROZEN337* »_
I built mine to fit in the bay!









Im talking about using the length of the runners to determine at what RPM's the engine makes more power.
Ill just make up a few sets of velocity stacks later on and see which ones work the best.


_Modified by Miami Blue at 4:12 PM 11-16-2009_


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

When I built my mani, I made it short enough to mount the carbs and filters, it is tight in there, I just wanted them to fit. If I ever go to a smaller rad, I will play with another mani and stacks.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Ah i see. I was out looking in the engine bay and was thinking how tight it will be in there and that ill wait do do any extra mods till later on.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

I'd like to see some hard data on the use of velocity stacks to tune the runner length. My understanding on runner length is back of the throttle plate to the back of the intake valve, as its timing the pulses between the closed valve and the throttle plate that "tunes" it to a certain rpm range. Longer runner length tunes it to lower rpm as there's more time between valve openings. Short runners, higher rpm, less time. That's the basics of it. You need a lot of VE info to really calculate out runner length to tune it properly, though. I'm not saying you can't tune it with velocity stacks, I've just not seen it and it goes against what I was taught. Not saying this makes me an expert, by any means, but just to quantify a bit, I do hold an Associates Degree in Motorsports Technology.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

All input is welcome man! If i could find a dyno to use id experiment with the velocity stacks. Like i said... maybe in the future. Where did you go to school to get your degree?
As far as updates on my little project here go... I picked up flange materials today and used a gasket to draw up what i want the flange to look like. Now i need to find someone to cut it, nothing i have can handle 1/2 inch.
Tonight im gonna order some goodies from Summit... Yippee!
Flange stuff:


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YJSAABMAN* »_Not saying this makes me an expert, by any means, but just to quantify a bit, I do hold an Associates Degree in Motorsports Technology.

Im a truck driver in the Army, you got me beat!
If you can find someone with a plasma cutter, it will be easy and clean.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

I asked the metal shop if they could plasma cut it but they said it was too thick. Im going to go back tomorrow and see if they can use the shear cutter and get the straight lines pretty close. I dont mind doing some grinding and drilling for the rest of it, we got the right tools for that at the race car shop http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Thanks for posting progress. Where do you get the flange material? Couldn't get anything thinner?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

Went to (believe it or not) a little community college in NEPA. Had a full automotive machine shop, flowbench, fab shop, etc. And the instructors all worke din the industry building engines or doing chassis fab/custom machine work. Awesome program!
Agreed on the material, 3/8" should'v ebeen plenty. I don't think you're going to find a shear that can handle 1/2". I have to admit, I'm not as big a fan of plasma as waterjet, if I had the choice. Plasma still leaves a pretty rough edge, especially on the thick stuff, and you really need to have a steady hand. Lots of grind time after plasma. If you can get access to an upright band saw you should be able to rough it in very close and then spend a little cleanup time on a grinder.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

I had to use a bandsaw to clean my flange up, or I would not have been able to get my spark plugs in! I say plasma only because you should be able to find one you can use before you find you find a water jet.
Almost anyone can use a plasma cutter, ALMOST!


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flyingsheep* »_Where do you get the flange material? Couldn't get anything thinner?

Any metal supplier has the material. I could have went with thinner steel yes, i chose to go with 1/2 inch because thats about what the stock flange is. Also after the runners are welded on im going to have a machine shop mill down the back side so that its perfectly flat, so it will be a little thinner.
Took the plate i bought yesterday back to the shop and they were happy to make the cuts for me. They used a large band saw for the longer cuts and the shear for the rest. The amount of force that that machine has is amazing! Thats hydraulics for ya!
Im going to UTI right now, i wish it had some fab classes in the program. After i graduate i plan on going to community college and taking some engineering and fabrication classes, im more interested in that stuff.
Gonna grind down the outside edges tonight and clean them up. Hopefully ill have it finished this weekend.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Todays update: Steel is lame, going to pick up some 3/8 aluminium tomorrow.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Hope you can TIG . . . I went with steel and TIG welded to be safe.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

My brother is a certified TIG welder. I asked him how much money he would want to do it, he said to buy him some In and Out Burger







.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Good choice!


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Sent a couple messages out on youtube to guys who had posted their R1 swaps last night. I asked them about what jet sizes they ended up going with, i must say, im very pleased! Both of the guys used pretty much the same size jets on their 16v 2.0 engines!
Messages:
"my carbs are on a 1.8 as a start ive used 1.6 but told by the engine tuner i could easily go to 1.65 , my mate who,s got a 2.0 but has a few more mods and mega jolt ingnition is on 1.83 i think"
"hi they drilled them to 1.8 mm , but it was under fueling at high revs , i drilled them out to 2mm and the carbs fuel well up to 7,500 rpm. if you need any other info just contact me , regards jayson"
So it looks like 1.8mm will be the jet to start with!
Im thinking of putting a Saab 900 non turbo dizzy on that has vacuum advance. Does anyone have any info on how well these work on a 9a engine? Im sure ii works way better than my CIS-Motronic dizzy that isnt plugged in to anything...









_Modified by Miami Blue at 9:29 PM 11-20-2009_


_Modified by Miami Blue at 11:11 PM 11-21-2009_


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

My carbs FINALLY came in today!! Yeeeha! I cleaned the outside up real good first thing, there was some grime on em. Tonight ill open them up and clean them some more. I need to find a manual on these things so i can figure out where all the fittings go. Does anyone knoe offhand what goes where?































































































And my parts that i have gathered so far: My finished flange, choke cable, fuel filter, pressure gauge, and fpr. All i should need now is fuel hose, runners, and silicone hose for attaching carbs to manifold.








For some reasson my camera likes to switch between black and white, and color







.... Oh well!


_Modified by Miami Blue at 6:17 PM 11-27-2009_


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## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

Nice write up so far, watching with interest!!!


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*









I have to look at my car to see what the one thing is, prolly cap it!
The vent hose, pull the lines off at the carb, turn them to the sky, they are vent ONLY, DO NOT TRY TO PUT FUEL IN THE CARBS USING THEM! I found that out the hard way!








On your pressure gauge, ditch the fitting and go right off the FPR.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Ha Ha thanks frozen, as always your help is much appreciated! The two things on the top are vents also i figured out. Lots of vents!
I took the AC out of the Caddy the other day, and moved the alternator down to the lower position. It cleared up alot more room than i expected! Next i need to re-route the coolant hose.
Alternator relocation. (Please excuse any ghetto tech you see in the engine compartment, it was not my work. These carbs are my first step to getting everything right and clean in there.)
Before:








After, without the AC that side already looks WAY better







:


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Thank you for continually updating. It is much appreciated. What exactly are you doing with those vents?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

The two vents on the top had small air filters on them, so ill replace the broken filter. Im assuming the filters are there for a reason.
The vents on either side ill cap off for now since they are connected. Im going to talk to a Yamaha tech and see if thats vacuum that i can use for a vacuum advance dizzy.
And last of all, the vents with the tubes that connect at the bottom, im going to remove the tubes and point the two T fittings downwards to help keep any dirt or water that may end up there out.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

usually the vents reroute to the air box on bikes. id just tap one of the runners for the vacuum dizzy and for your brake booster. the vacuum port on the carbs may not be strong enough to run both dizzy and brake booster unless you arent going to use vacuum assisted brakes...


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

For the brakes im planning on doing as you said and tapping the runners. Im thinkin that the vacuum on the carbs should do fine for just the dizzy.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

sounds good ha. im in the middle of the exact same thing you're doing except im swapping into a cabriolet at the same time.


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## wut_cel (Nov 27, 2009)

Doing this too, are you using the CIS system or a stand alone like megasquirt?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (wut_cel)*

Are you thinking of ITB's? These are carburetors, no cis or megasquirt involved.


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## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Have you found any other good sources on other websites. Do you know of anyone else doing a write up on here?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (rocco858488)*

The only write up on another web site i have found was by the Bogg Brothers of Europe. It is more of a generic write up, not specific to any one engine: 
http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk...7.pdf
There are a few guys on the Vortex doing, or attempting to do this. The guy who has been most helpful is my main man FROZEN (Thanks dude). He has posted on my thread as well as other bike carb threads.
Vortex R1 threads:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4241293
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...32202
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...34217
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4307309
Not R1 but good info:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1
There are more threads, but those are some of the good ones.
And one more... This one is great for rebuilding the carbs:
http://www.howmotorcycleswork.com/r6/index.htm

Update for the day
This weekend i made up a coolant hose that will give me much more clearance, im pretty happy with it. It will run on the outside of the alternator and then under the tensioning adjustment bracket.









My runner material showed up last night, i got right to work on shaping them. Shaping took some patience, first i used a vice to oval them out and then a cut off saw to cut the angles.... I dropped the flange and runners off to my brother this afternoon, i hope he doesnt put the welding off. Ill have to keep on him







The runners will be cut down to about where the cardboard is after the welding is complete.
















My parents supprised me for christmas so i will be flying back to my beautiful home in Northwest Washington





















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







Im going to have to hold off on the installation till New Years weekend.


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Welcome back to the northwest


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

I only have one week off for Christmas so i gotta wait till next friday to fly out. But thankyou! Its going to be so great to be home!


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Throttle Cable time!
I had been looking at different ways to do the throttle cable for a while and this is what i came up with. It is by far the cheapest way to do it. The cable its self i got at the local bike shop for dirt cheap, you will need the fitting on the end for the throttle lever on the carbs, it just so happens that bicycle brake cables work perfectly. For holding the cable on the carbs i ordered the small bicycle brake adjuster from here: 
http://www.porkchopbmx.com/Bra...5.htm
Brake cable with round... thing.








Brake adjuster








I cut down the small mount that screws on to the adjuster and put it on first. Then i used the small nut to lock it in place. After the photo was taken i bent the bracket on the carbs over the adjuster a little, that thing isnt going anywhere!








For the cable to be finished, all i have to do now is figure out how to get a hook on the pedal side so that it will go right in to where the OEM cable goes.


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## 2.0VEDUB (Oct 26, 2009)

Nice. I would like to do this but i'm focused on maintenance right now. Car was beat on pretty bad by previous owner. Maybe in a few months


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (2.0VEDUB)*

Got the manifold back, it looks great! It bowed a little from the welding so i bent it back in a vice and then used a belt sander to get it perfect.
I need to pick up some sort of hose to join the mani to the carbs. Dont know if i want to use rubber or step it up and pay extra for silicone hose.
























Question for FROZEN: Where did you get the foam air filters for these things? I cant find them anywhere!


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## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

Shouldn't silicone be better since they're stiff? Hoses would wobble around I'd imagine...


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## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

Manifold looks great! Just wondering if you could post sources for: choke cable, fuel filter, pressure gauge, and fpr. Links to websites, brand names, part numbers and prices would be awesome!


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (rocco858488)*

Choke cable: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MRG-2078/
Fuel Pressure Gauge: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-800115/
FPR: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-12-804/
Got the fuel filter at the auto parts store for 4 bucks, its nothing special.


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## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RTCustomz (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: (rocco858488)*

bump, watch http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RTCustomz (Dec 20, 2004)

*Re: (RTCustomz)*

I have three of these carbs, How much are they worth?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (RTCustomz)*

if you havent found were to get filters from yet look at dennis kirk or just get k&n's but they're $45 a piece. and your manifold looks great i just got mine back from a friends shop two days ago.


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## mauzer76 (Feb 23, 2008)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Doing a CIS to carb conversion also. Going to be running a single Weber/Magnum Flow manifold set up for daily driving and a quad-Mikuni/custom manifold set up for "showin and going." I'll be using a Mr. Gasket in-line pump, Quick Fuel FPR and Spectre glass filter and FP gauge. Money is an issue, so I did the best I could with what I had to spend. I'm wondering if anyone can help me on running a return line to the tank. The FPR has 2 outs, can I use 1 to run a return?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (mauzer76)*

I found my filters on eBay, and blew the metal ends off two of them! Backfire in the carbs. They are UNI filters, I cant think of the PN, but the fit 50mm and are the shortest ones they make. 
Right now I'm using window screen for filters!
Your cable adjuster might not have enough adjustment in it. I went to a local Yamaha dealer and looked through some "scrap" cables they had and found one about 2-3 times the lengh of yours. I used the stock cable from my JETTA (1983 vintage!) and JB welded cable ends from AutoZone on the end. You will need to cut A LOT of the cable off to get it to size. I kept the stock to retain the "J" on the end so it woont bind and looks factory in the firewall, because it is! Im going to go out and try to get some pics and PN's for you too!


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## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

Something's been bugging me, and I just put my finger on it ...
Are you planning to mount these carbs horizontally, or vertically (in the same orientation as the photos a few posts up?
Those carbs are designed to be downdraft carbs, as are most late model Yamaha sport bike carbs.
I do not know what will happen if you try to mount them in side-draft orientation. You might want to pull one of those float bowls off (easy, 4 screws) and see what's going on in there. It could possibly still work, but you need to make sure the jets will still be submerged, the vent is NOT submerged, and that the floats will work correctly in that orientation.


_Modified by GoFaster at 5:34 PM 12-27-2009_


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## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

Bogg brothers (experts in R1 car applications) Have had success mounting them in everything from side draft to down draft position. Check out their website, thy do some pretty amazing stuff!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (rocco858488)*

im pretty sure those are side draft carbs just with the bowls titled because of the orientation and clearance of the motor in the yamaha bike. in fact im pretty positive most bike carbs are side draft, the only ones that may not be side draft are from boxer engine style bikes such as old gold wings or bmw bike.


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

As far as the carbs working or not . . . Before my distributor took a dump, my set up was working great!
I'll see if I have a vid of it running and once I get my new camera figured out, I'll get more pics up.


----------



## GoFaster (Jun 18, 1999)

*Re: (86Franklin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86Franklin* »_im pretty sure those are side draft carbs just with the bowls titled because of the orientation and clearance of the motor in the yamaha bike. in fact im pretty positive most bike carbs are side draft, the only ones that may not be side draft are from boxer engine style bikes such as old gold wings or bmw bike. 

Perhaps, that is all well and good, but I am absolutely one hundred percent sure *that* bike has them in the downdraft orientation!! All Yamaha sport bikes following the "Genesis" layout of the early FZR's (started late 1980's) have the carbs in a downdraft orientation.
If someone else has already validated that these carbs will work in a side-draft orientation then it's all good. You might have to muck around with float levels ... but you are going to have to muck around with jets and needles anyway.


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (GoFaster)*

Bogg Bros uses the R1 carbs because they will work in almost any position, down, side, backwards, over the river . . . My car was running awesome for a few days till my distributor stopped doing its job. You can google search and find them on VWs, old Toyotas, mazdas and a bunch more. Search youtube and there are a bunch of videos too AND the last PVW I bought has a MKI with a 16V running them . . . 
A write up about bike carbs and Bogg Bros . . .
http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk...7.pdf


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Got my pics up . . .
nothing to drool over, yet!
















What I used for my cable ends
















OE MKI choke cable
















Holley and gauge








pick up on to sync your carbs on the cheap!








MKII cluster in and working








"John Milner" inspired gauge set up!








and my lazy helper . . .










_Modified by FROZEN337 at 5:14 PM 12-29-2009_


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

ooo whats the red button for on the center console








my set up. not done.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Wow frozen this looks great! It is looking like i will have to ghetto rig my throttle cable till i can figure out where to get some cable stops like those, it looks great! I went to the yamaha dealership looking for longer adjusters but they didnt have any, i figure i could just move the cable stopps....
My air filters will be here tomorrow, ill post some pictures of what i have done and give a little more detail.
Thursday night im driving in to the garage, i wont drive out till i have carbs


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Red button is for the wideband, L.E.D. is there too. I'll have to get a pic of my ghetto rigged fan switch (huge nawz style switch!) 
You should be able to get the cable ends at any auto parts store or google "help 03336 cable stops" they will be there!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Thanks man, just ordered some, the wont be here till next week though. Ill just fashion up some temp ones for now. I am super excited about these things, this is my last obstical as far as i know.


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (86Franklin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86Franklin* »_

















Sweet manifold, is it steel or aluminium? I have a second flange that I want to build up as my "nice" manifold at some point, after my extra head is finished!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

steel i wish i could have afforded aluminum


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FROZEN337* »_
"John Milner" inspired gauge set up!










http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif For the Milner reference! Got the Graffitti and More Graffitti 2 disc set for x-mas! 
Stuff's looking good, guys. My setup is going to be way more old school than these, if I can get it all sorted. Need a piece of aluminum to make a mounting flange for the carbs to start the manifold mockup and then I can finish the alt bracket. Here's a pic of my old-school induction. Sorry, it's a crappy cell phone pic.








More pics when there's something worth posting!


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

I tried running the carbs, first some old mikuni's then some R1 carbs. Never got it to run right and went digi 2.
Old thread in the sig.....I wish I wasn't so rushed when I did mine. My next car I will carb it.
If anyone here wants some R1 carbs IM me....I even got the drill bits for the main jets


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Dave926)*

I wish I knew more about carbs on the 16V, but I dont. I plan on building a R1/16V in a rabbit some day . . . I say try again! It has taken me over two years to get where the car is now, time and money . . .


----------



## mauzer76 (Feb 23, 2008)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

I've been following this thread since the 3rd post and I'm happy to see where it has gone http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'm currently converting my fiancees '83 GTI from CIS to carbs. I have a Magnum Flow intake and a single Weber 32/36 progressive for daily driving and I'll be getting a manifold fabricated for a nice set of old school Mikunis for more pep on the right days










These are late '70's- early 80's carbs, so there's alot of polish-able surfaces. About to take 'em apart for a re-jet/re-build/detail. My question is this: How are people blocking off the injector ports? I'm running a counter-flow 8v with CIS. I've read of people using tranny plugs, even placing pennies/nickels in the port, filling with silicon/JB weld and replacing the injector bushing. I've also read of fabbing the manifold to just cover them over... anyone had success with either of these methods? 


_Modified by mauzer76 at 12:46 PM 1-2-2010_


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (mauzer76)*

Hey Guys! Ill do up a detailed post tomorrow but i just wanted to let everyone know.... SHE LIVESSSSSS! I was driving it around today, its running like a champ!























FROZEN, please dont get discouraged! I am amazed at how well this went for me. What symptoms were you having?



_Modified by Miami Blue at 11:48 PM 1-2-2010_


----------



## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

No way man, post everything...


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Flyingsheep)*

I miss that sound! If it wasnt low 10's out, I would go start mine! I might try anyway!!
Good stuff, hows it run? Need to tune it much?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

I initally had the idle mixture set at the Bogg Brothers recomended point. When i first started it it would only run with the choke on, so i made the mixture a little richer, now it runs without choke perfectly. Its jetted at 1.83mm right now, im not quite as fast as i was with the CIS so i may drill them a little bigger, or leave it and see what type of mpg's i get. 
Detailed post with pic's still coming later


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Thurday night:
As soon as i got off school i headed home, and parked the Caddy in the garage. Started out looking like this:








First thing there was on the list to do was get the cooling system all squared away. I was hoping that all i was going to have to do was put the hose I made on and call it good. Sadly... it was more complicated than that. When i went to test fit the carbs, the radiator and fan position didnt allow enough clearance.
What i had to end up doing was angle the radiator so that on the carburetor side it was hiding under the rad support. I also had to take off me pancake fans and go back to the single fan from my 77 rabbit. Once i got all of this done it was about three in the morning, and i called it a night.
New hose on, before i had test fitted the carbs and realized that the current set up wouldnt work:








First test fitting of the carbs, filters had to be squished to go in there and were touching one of the fans:
















Lightbulb turned on in my head when i realized i could angle the rad:








Cooling system complete:








Friday:
First thing i did was run the fuel lines. I ended up having to run them a different way because i didnt realize the pressure regulator wasnt a bypass regulator. If you are going to be doing this swap and using the stock CIS fuel pump, get a BYPASS REGULATOR. I was able to use my curent one temporarily, till i can save up for a bypass regulator. Ill take pictures and explain it tomorrow.
The reason i ran the fuel lines in the way pictured, on the driver side of the engine compartment, was so that if i couldnt get the carbs going i could just plug my CIS back in. This car is my daily so i had to make sure one way or the other i could drive it to school monday. Now that the carbs work, ill plum the fuel lines on the passenger side so that the engine compartment will be cleaner.
The fuel filter should be before the regulator but i wanted to be sure that nothing was coming from any of my plumbing.
Also check out the oil dipstick... To be able to get to it with the carbs on a had to bend the guide tube. I just did it carefully by hand.
First time i ran the fuel lines:








Next it was time to bolt on the manifold. I must say i did a pretty nice job on it, it bolted right up:
















Notice I used a bit of foam air filter material to shove in to all of the vents on the carbs so that nothing but air can get in. First fitment of the carbs:








Saturday:
It was finally time to fire it up! I let the lines fill up with fuel by making the pump cycle a couple times, then turned the choke on... Vrooommmm! Fired right up! I let it warm up for a minute and then turned the choke off, but the engine died. My thought process was that choke richens the fuel mixture and the engine will only run with it on, so i enrichened the idle mixture screws and it fired right up with choke off. Be sure that when your adjusting idle mixture screws only go in small amounts and go the same amount on every carb. After i did this the engine was smoking a little so i leaned out the mixture till it didnt smoke any more. 
Then for the first drive







It drove great for a while then it would die. As soon as i would let the fuel pump cycle a couple times it would start right back up, drive for a while, and then die again. The issue was that i wasnt getting anough fuel pressure to the carbs and the float bowls were drying up faster than they could be refilled. The cause of the problem was my non return regulator. Which is why i suggest that you USE A BYPASS REGULATOR if you are going to be using the CIS pump. Like i said, i was able to temporarily fix my problem, but will be switching to a bypass regulator. As soon as i did the fix, the engine runs smoothly all of the time. Mission accomplished!
Final result:
















Final result: My car runs properly now. No fluctuating idle, no cranking for thirty seconds before it starts, and it sounds beautiful







I am VERY happy with the result. It all seemed a little too easy!
There are a couple more posts still to come:
Throttle and choke cable explaination.
MPG's and thoughts on furter jetting.
Synching the carbs.
PROPER plumbing of fuel lines.
I think thats it... 
If anyone has any questions about running these carbs i am happy to help! Bike carbs CAN be run successfully!


_Modified by Miami Blue at 10:27 PM 1-3-2010_


----------



## jeosh (Feb 20, 2009)

would you say they are realiable enough, when tuned up good, to be driven daily??
im currently building a 16v r-1 rabbit and have hopes of driving it as my daily during the summer months ( in canada may- september ish )


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (jeosh)*

This IS my daily man! My CIS had issues so i switched to these, and now it runs perfectly, nice and smooth. Its been pretty chilly at nights here (for AZ), and it still starts right up.


----------



## Flyingsheep (Apr 24, 2008)

How is throttle response? Power band? You said the CIS setup had a little bit more power, but where at? Do the carbs still feel different as far as power band or throttle response goes?


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (jeosh)*

Going to be running an Aeromotive bypass regulator on mine. Far from cheap, but I know my CIS pump was replaced just before the 1.7L died, the return line and everything is still there, etc. Great info throughout this thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

Throttle is very responsive due to the throttle plates being much larger combined than the origional throttle plates combined. I made sure to pay attention to my power band today, it actually feels very even from take off to the top end. 
The reason i am slower is that i haven done any tuning past what i can do by listening to the engine. I still need to hook up my air fuel meter and jet the carbs, im sure its running a little lean right now.
The Aeromotive Regulator is the exact one i want!


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Great job and great wright up







Get a wideband in there trust me it makes tuning so much easier and safer for your motor...and wallet

Is that a widebody Gen II RX-7? pic's?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (impulse byer)*

Wideband will certainly come when i can afford it, they may have one at school that i can use now that i think about it.
And yes good eye man! My room mate has building that car FOREVER! Widebody FC, he is putting a turbo ls3 in it. I want him to finish it so i can get a ride! Some day i may need to build one to go along with my rabbit










_Modified by Miami Blue at 4:44 AM 1-7-2010_


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Your still running the stock fuel pump? I didnt think it would work, to much pressure. Im running the Carter 4070 without the accumulator. 
Thats awesome you got it going in a weekend! Mine took forever (still is!) because it started with the junk 1.7L in the car and changed more then I should have! I hope to have the new distributor from TT by the end of the month. 
Do the carbs hit the rad without the fan on it? I want to run a slim fan on the front side to clean up the bay. I plan to route the fuel lines from the pass side and toss the battery in the trunk at some point too, just want it to run first!!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

he may be running just the in tank fuel pump thats what i'm planning on doing. how much did your carter cost? i've thought about buying one.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Right now im using the CIS pump, all i did was unplug the fuel hose to the CIS dizzy and plug the fpr in. After looking more in to it i have decided to get the carter fuel pump like FROZEN, it is cheaper and safer than using the CIS pump and bypass regulator.
The carbs and filters both dont hit the rad or fan shroud. There is about a centimeter of clearance between the filters and shroud. I also plan on running a slim fan on the front though to clear up space. (That will come after i get new coilovers)


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

I bought my carter from summit, along with the gauge, not sure what I paid for them. You can mount the gauge on the FPR to clean thing up a bit too.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

i was just wondering cause i found a few at some local stores (not carter) that were around $50. everyone on here says, thats what to use. so im just trying to figure out if its worth ordering or just going with one of the ones i found locally.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

I have thought of going to the local auto parts store to get a fuel pump but i dont know how much i can trust one of those things. I'd rather just stick to something that people have used and works for em.
If other people have used them and say they work i suppose you should give it a try!


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Thats what i use CarQuest brand low pressure pump. I bought 2 just in case but have never needed the second one yet. 3 years i believe i've been running it now.
I love the Ls series of motors my next project will involve one for sure...in a 3 gen RX-7 of some sort


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (impulse byer)*

You wanting to get that extra pump off your hands?
Id like to get some engineering skills and some day build a RWD LS1 Caddy. I know... non german engine in a VW... but imagine catching EVERYONE off guard!


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

I went through 2 cheaper pumps before the carter, 1 off ebay, rotary vain like the carter, it was junk. The second was the Mr. Gasket 4-7 psi. After fueling issues with both, I bought the carter. Works awesome!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Ha Ha maybe i should reconsider the cheaper pump.... 
Page 4 SIKKKK


----------



## VicDubber (Jan 12, 2010)

This is Great post. Do you mind putting up a list of what was required for this build. Maybe some prices too. Wanting to do one of the three, but this seems the best.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (VicDubber)*

Carbs: $130 (You can find them cheaper)
Pump: $70
FPR: $40
Manifold: $20 and an In-and-Out Burger
Silicone couplers: $10
Fuel Hose: $15
Fuel Gauge: $25
NPT Fittings: $15
Air Filters: $70
Air Filter Oil: $10
Vacuum Hose: $10
Fuel Filter: $5
Pipe Clamps: $15
Prices arent exact, but close. Total comes out to around $435. Not bad considering its a whole fuel system. Starts right up every time! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## i4turbo (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

What year R1 did the carbs come from... 98-01?
Im thinking of doing this in the future and im going to starts collecting parts... btw thanks for the thread really helps...


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (i4turbo)*

Yep, 98-01.
Searcing for good info can be difficult, so i tried to get it all in one place


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Yeah, I'm not suprised FROZEN had issues with a Mr. Gasket pump, they're pretty crappy. Heard of a lot of people having problems with them on various vehicles.
I'm still planning on giving the CIS pump and bypass regulator a shot. Really just don't want to have to re-do the fuel lines at this point!


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

Mr. Gasket pump was a try at keeping things under $300!! FAIL! 
Anyone looking for carbs, I have 2 sets (not selling the other!) both off ebay for under $50 each shipped. When you do get the carbs, or ask before you buy, they came with adjustable needles, will make tuning easy, one set I bought did not have the stock needles in them. I have not priced new/adjustable set yet either. 
You dont have to re-do your fuel lines at all to make it work, I'm running off the "end" of the hard line on the drivers side. I am going to re-do it after its running right and the bay is finished, just not that big a deal right now.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

for the fuel line i cut the soft line (for the return line) off the barb fitting where it bolts to the hard line. then put the barb fitting on the feed line and ran soft to my carbs. now i just need to cap the return line so it doesnt leak fumes. after i get that all i need is the aluminum water neck i bought to arrive so i can have it cut and welded differently to clear my carbs. also for my uncle to come and make me a throttle cable.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Looks like its time for a throttle cable post, ill go take some pics.


----------



## i4turbo (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Im ready to buy a set off you Frozen, let me know how we can do that...
thanks


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Throttle cable time! To be able to make a proper throttle cable you need only two things: A stock cable, and some cable stoppers. You need the specific kind i posted a picture of on here. I suggest buying a throttle cable to a diesel rabbit since they are long enough to easily reach the front of the engine.








First thing youll have to do is cut the cable stop off the throttle or diesel pump (depending on what cable you get) side of the cable. Cut it as close as you can. 
Then pull the cable out of the guide so you can trim the guide. Put the guide in the firewall and cut it so that it fits in to where the throttle cable holder is on the carbs.
Once the cutting is complete you can insert the cable back in to the guide on the pedal side of the firewall. Put the hook on the cable in to the busing on the pedal lever.
Now wrap the cable around the throttle lever on the carbs and then put one of the cable stops on there. The cable stop may be a little big for the spot on the throttle lever, all you have to do is file the stop down a little evenly on all sides. Once the cable stop is where you want it, leave it attached to the cable and then take it off the carbs. Tighten the screw down as much as you can and then cut the screw flush with the brass part of the stop. The reason for this is that the screw will hit the carbs when the throttle is part of the way open.
Finally you can put the cable back on to the carbs! There ya go!
Highly technical and semi pointless conseptual drawing:










_Modified by Miami Blue at 6:27 PM 1-19-2010_


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

where did you get those? i've been looking for something similar but having a hard time. i was going to use a solder on end but if i can find those id go that route.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

I ordered them off here: http://www.oreillyauto.com/sit...C0142


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (GoFaster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GoFaster* »_Something's been bugging me, and I just put my finger on it ...
Are you planning to mount these carbs horizontally, or vertically (in the same orientation as the photos a few posts up?
Those carbs are designed to be downdraft carbs, as are most late model Yamaha sport bike carbs.
I do not know what will happen if you try to mount them in side-draft orientation. You might want to pull one of those float bowls off (easy, 4 screws) and see what's going on in there. It could possibly still work, but you need to make sure the jets will still be submerged, the vent is NOT submerged, and that the floats will work correctly in that orientation.

_Modified by GoFaster at 5:34 PM 12-27-2009_

Hey... what ever happened to this guy?...


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

When I did my cable, I used a TON of JB Weld! Only because when I floored it, the cable pulled out EVERYTIME







I put JB Weld in the cable end, from both sides, before putting the set screw in. Let it set for a few days (better safe then buying another cable!) and ground off the head of the set screw and hand sanded the brass till it rolled smooth in the wheel.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

I wonder if solder would also do the trick.... Ill try it out when i go to do my permanant throttle cable.


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

I read up on soldering a cable end, if you google "homemade/custom cables" there are a few good sites. However, the best way, from what I found, was to use a cool guy solder pot thingy and dip it in. I looked for a place around me that had one, S.O.L.







There is NOTHING where I live . . . So I did the cable end and JB Weld and it is wicked strong! If there is a GOOD bike shop around, they should have the stuff to custom make a cable from scratch.


----------



## i4turbo (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

Does anyone have any carbs for sale? or were to find them for not too too expensive, from what im seeing, their around the 220cnd mark for me... im looking to spend 150ish max
thanks


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (i4turbo)*

ebay or try and find a bike yard some where and pull some off of a 90s bike


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (i4turbo)*

Youve had good luck with the JB weld so ill give that a shot when its time!
FROZEN has some carbs for sell...


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

last night i ordered my choke cable from summit around 7:30 and this morning when i woke up it was outside my door. and i went to a o'reilly autoparts store near by and picked up some of those cable ends so i could install it. first time i put the end on i stuck the cable end through both holes on the sleeve and tighted the screw down. when i went to give it a shot it pulled through. so when i went to attach it again i only put it through the first hole and once tightened down i gave it a pretty good tug and it didnt come out.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Yeah Summit as the best about shipping, they always get it to me fast too. 
Great find on the cable stops man, ill try it out my self. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## i4turbo (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

I PMed Frozen and no reply...
Im interested in a set... I can mod/clean them my self...
thanks


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (i4turbo)*

I didnt get a PM from you? I do have a second set of R1 carbs, but Im not selling them. Sorry. I used a stock MKI diesel choke cable on my car, once I mount it under the dash, it will be perfect!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

got my throttle cable done today. it rubs a little because i couldnt get the cable end to rotate so that the cable was pointing upwards. but it works.


----------



## cosmo50cc (Aug 12, 2005)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

im running itbs but i was looking on the gap and saw the cable for autos has a barrel adjuster on the end has anyone looked into this one?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (cosmo50cc)*

post a link ill check it out


----------



## cosmo50cc (Aug 12, 2005)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

http://www.germanautoparts.com.../42/1


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (cosmo50cc)*

Franklin, that's a kick-a$$ alt arm you have there!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'll have to see if I still have it,, or not. My Cabby was an auto car, and I think I might still have the throittle cable around. If I do I'll try to take some closeups of the trans end for you guys. My carb setup has a cable system already with it, so it's getting it attached to the pedal once everything is mounted up. Need to make a flange and start on my manifold!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

thanks it was a surprise from the friend who made my intake mani.
and i finally got everything to start my car but wont be able to get it running till next week. but still im excited.


----------



## zrobb3 (Oct 17, 2007)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

watching for future referance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Filled up my gas tank today, i must say im quite pleased with my MPG's. I have not tuned the carbs any more since i put them on so right now i have a high idle, and its probably not running exactly right while driving. Also i havent been able to keep my foot off the gas pedal lately.... Even with that extra fuel being consumed im getting 24 MPG's! 
Im thinking that when i tune it and drive it economically i can add a few more miles


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_Filled up my gas tank today, i must say im quite pleased with my MPG's. I have not tuned the carbs any more since i put them on so right now i have a high idle, and its probably not running exactly right while driving. Also i havent been able to keep my foot off the gas pedal lately.... Even with that extra fuel being consumed im getting 24 MPG's! 
Im thinking that when i tune it and drive it economically i can add a few more miles









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vdubjim (Jan 30, 2000)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Whats the 16v using for ignition? hows the advance?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (vdubjim)*

Im using stock ignition, it works. Im sure it would run much better if i had vaccuum advance. After i get a fuel pump im going to do ignition. I may look in to megajolt..


----------



## soaker (Apr 26, 2009)

*1.8 8V carbs?*

Has anyone done this carb set up on a 1.8 8V motor(JH in a 1984 GTI)? I am ready to go ahead with it but some input would be nice. Already have the carbs and the CIS stuffs out of the car.


_Modified by soaker at 8:25 PM 2-4-2010_


----------



## i4turbo (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

will this dist work for my 2.0L 16v swap http://cgi.ebay.ca/1984-Saab-9...t_956
thanks


----------



## GTInoise (Aug 26, 2009)

*Re: 1.8 8V carbs? (soaker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *soaker* »_Has anyone done this carb set up on a 1.8 8V motor(JH in a 1984 GTI)? I am ready to go ahead with it but some input would be nice. Already have the carbs and the CIS stuffs out of the car.

_Modified by soaker at 8:25 PM 2-4-2010_

Ditto this, Id like to see it.
Considered this first, going downdraft weber instead


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: 1.8 8V carbs? (GTInoise)*

i'm sure you could do this on a counter flow head, especially since it has been done with dual webers. i would look into a heat shield for the exhaust though. and maybe find a way to route cooler air to them.


----------



## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: (i4turbo)*

Nope, you need the Saab 16v distributor.


----------



## GTInoise (Aug 26, 2009)

*Re: (franque)*


_Quote, originally posted by *franque* »_Nope, you need the Saab 16v distributor.

More info? Youve done this?


----------



## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: (GTInoise)*

Nope, since I have R1 Carbs, I am going EDIS/Megajolt.
This guy did: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=3


----------



## i4turbo (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: (franque)*

in that thread they say the 8v saab dist fits not the 16v saab dist....
the 8v saab dist is the same look as the 16v vw dist...


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (i4turbo)*

i have a question for you guys. i finally tried to start my car today. i tried for like and hour, it is getting fuel and spark but hasnt fired once. is it just cause it is hasnt ever been run since the rebuild? tomorrow im going to check the ignition timing and see how close it is. just thought id ask to see if you had any suggestions.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86Franklin* »_i have a question for you guys. i finally tried to start my car today. i tried for like and hour, it is getting fuel and spark but hasnt fired once. is it just cause it is hasnt ever been run since the rebuild? tomorrow im going to check the ignition timing and see how close it is. just thought id ask to see if you had any suggestions.

Check timing, check throttle position/choke, etc. Air, fuel, and spark are required, sounds like you have them all, just not at the right times. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

it was the ign. timing but i got it sorted out just need to get better plugs one doesn't want to fire all the time :/


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Hey, Miami, any updates? Still running on the same jetting size? MPGs still good? You running a wideband or have it dyno'd w/wideband for an idea of how the AFRs are?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

Hello! I am waiting for my brother to have time to weld an 02 sensor bung in to my exhaust, so i have not tuned the carbs yet. So i am still running the same jet size. MPG's are great! Ive been getting around 26MPG







I havent even had to touch the carbs since i installed, just show them off!
I dont have money for wideband right now so im going to use a regular A/F ratio gauge to get the carbs close.
Im still Xtreamly happy with this set up, havent even thought about going back to CIS


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

miami what did you do to get your oil and water gauges to work. my oil gauge is bouncing back and forth and my temp gauge maxes out with just the ignition on.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

My gauges are both mechanical (only thing electrical is for lighting) so its just a matter of putting them in the right place on the engine. Id certainly be happy to help you out though. Easy things first, check for good connections. If that doesnt work check the schematics for the gauges to make sure they are wired up correctly. And if that doesnt work i.m. me and we will get it figured out.
When does the oil gauge bounce back and forth? All the time? 
Temp gauge sensor input wire could be hooked up to constant 12V with ignition on.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

little update on my engine.. Im trying to get my hands on a saab 16v distributer. No one seems to really know if it works or not so im going to just try it out for my self.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

tomorrow im going to mess with my oil and water temp gauges. also i picked up a saab 8v distributor not the 16v one because it wont work. but it bolts up pretty well theres not near as much timing adjustment compared to a stock dist since there are three mounting points instead of just the two. also i noticed that the the rotor on the saab dist is about a 1/4 turn more than the stock dist. so youll have to move your plug wires so its firing the correct piston. i haven't ran it with the new dist yet but i will try when i get a new rotor. if you want pics on how it mounts let me know. also i need the female plug end for the hall sender off of the dist but having trouble finding one. 


_Modified by 86Franklin at 4:47 AM 3-8-2010_


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Do you have the same engine as me? 2.0 16v? Or do you have an 8v engine? Im thinking ill need the 16v dist if i have a 16v head right? Please post pics! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

I have have a 1.8 16v. And its opposite for saabs the 8v dist runs off the cam like the old vw 1.1 L engines. And the saab 16v valve dist mounts in the block like current vw 8v engines. I can post pics of the saab 8v dist I have if you would like.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Please do!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

ok here is comparison shots of the 1986 saab 900 nonturbo 8v dist and vw 1.8/2.0 16v dist.
here is a side view to get an idea of how long the vacuum adv. dist is from the saab.








here is the mounting side. note both of the dist. are at the same position








now here is the rotor side. notice how the saab dist. is almost 180* off. 








hall plug for the saab dist.








hall plug for the vw dist.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

i was wrong actually about the saab 16v dist mounting in the block. it still mounts on the head but nothing like a vw 16v.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Hmmm.. very interesting. So i wonder if anyone has actually tried using one of the saab distributors. Whenever you try it out let us know, that would be a cheap route to get timing advance rather than electronic advance. 
Thanks for posting the pics! They definantly look similar...


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

i will once i find a plug ha. and the ssab 8v dist is identical to the 1.1-1.3l vw 8v dist except with the right plug. and those have been used im pretty sure.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Damn, just sold my SAAB with a dist or two in the back of it. 
Thanks, Miami, what I wanted to hear! The search is on for some carbs for my Cabby!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

Woop Woop!


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

After having read many of the posts, it's still not clear if Yamaha R1 carbs are a good choice for a 1.8 8v COUNTERFLOW engine? I fitted some Mikuni carbs, but I'm having a series of problems and would like to fit R1 carbs instead... any comments, please?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (pnavarro)*

what kind of problems are you having? if its clearance issues the r1 carbs wont be that different if you are using the same manifold.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

2001 YZF R1 carbs shipped Wednesday from Cali, should arrive Monday! $99.99 + $17 shipping with throttle and choke cables. Woot! I'm excited! Pulled out my intake manifold materials Weds night and started checking things out/mocking up things should work oh-so nicely! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







I'm pumped!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

thats awesome. started breaking in my car today. gotta re-torque then head the start her back up. then i can take it for the first drive


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Im still waiting on time & money to get mine going again!


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (FROZEN337)*

I've got enough stuff to keep me occupied once the carbs get here to not have to worry about a fuel pump and regulator just yet. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

Carbs showed up this morning! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif















Choke cable and mechanism all there, not throttle cable, but has the throttle stop screw cable/adjuster setup still on it. Back a few pages to look over the what's-what pics and labels and go over some of those "how-to" links! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

nice! got them mounted yet


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

LOL! Not quite, but going to be working on that tomorrow on my day off, for sure! I should be able to get everything mocked up and ready to take to the welder.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Well, the Mikuni carbs seem to be a bit on the small side, I'll post some pics ASAP. Clearance is not a problem, but I've got no power at the moment...
So, if I get Yamaha R1, they're gonna be a great choice then for my 1.8 counterflow head engine?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (pnavarro)*

i'd say R1 carbs are going to be your best bet. or fork out the money for dual webers and intake mani.


_Modified by 86Franklin at 6:49 PM 3-31-2010_


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

just thought id share this. i need to tighten up the exhaust in some places, other than that its running pretty good. oh and the saab dist seems to work good. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNgs9rkCyFc


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Congrats man! Sounds good! You even got the vacuum advance dizzy to work??? Whats dizz ended up working? I need it!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

well the dist. that i have is out of a 83 saab 900 8v non turbo i believe. but from what i understand and have seen the dist from a '95 saab 900 2.3 non-turbo is exactly the same except it has the right shaped hall plug on it.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

How much timing adjustment can you get out of it?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

well for my car (im not sure if it varies car to car) but the way it is mounted now it is advanced as much as possible and it seem to be spot on. the car idles and revs extremely well. im not sure if flipping the dist upside down will give you more adjustment or not.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Where'd you get your air cleaners, Franklin? 
All I need to come up with is a piece of aluminum and fab up the head flange, get things welded up, and mine will be bolted up. Stock flange makes it too long and just looks goofy.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

mine are from k&n. i went to there universal filter section and took all the measurements from my carbs and matched them with the style i wanted. the only bad thing about k&n is that they're filters are about 45 a piece. so if you get get 4 your looking at some cash. but they are worth it in my opinion. reusable, probably some of the least restrictive filters, and look awesome! ha. oh and nice turbo on your bench








edit: for my car... for some reason im not getting any spark. power to the coil and everything just nothing from the coil. guess im going to get a new coil. i guess i just dont understand why it went bad. thanks coil...




_Modified by 86Franklin at 11:57 AM 4-4-2010_


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86Franklin* »_mine are from k&n. i went to there universal filter section and took all the measurements from my carbs and matched them with the style i wanted. the only bad thing about k&n is that they're filters are about 45 a piece. so if you get get 4 your looking at some cash. but they are worth it in my opinion. reusable, probably some of the least restrictive filters, and look awesome! ha. oh and nice turbo on your bench








edit: for my car... for some reason im not getting any spark. power to the coil and everything just nothing from the coil. guess im going to get a new coil. i guess i just dont understand why it went bad. thanks coil...
_Modified by 86Franklin at 11:57 AM 4-4-2010_

I took some measurements and was looking in the K&N catalog, but didn't find anything that fit the bill in a single filter. Are the end plates K&N, also? 
Turbo is for the 2.0L Golf daily beater. That's next year's project. This year is the Cabby. OR maybe the Jeep is next year...who knows!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

this is where i found mine. http://store.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm all of them are universal by measurement. and you can choose your style of filter you want. 
heres a kind better view of the filters


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Sweet, those are the RC-2240, from what I can tell just by the flange ID. Definitely a classy, tasteful option. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks Franklin!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

Thanks my uncle (a fairly well known flat track bike builder) has always told me to get k&n's or a more expensive foam filter as they offer best airflow and protection. he is also who altered my 16v throttle cable to work with these carbs.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Fork out money for Webers? No way! I aim to have my car running they way it should on a relatively low budget.
Thanks for the input!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (pnavarro)*

Cheap... Yes!
Reliable... Yes!
100% Bad azz... I think you know the answer.
Do it man!


----------



## kojiru (Dec 5, 2005)

hey where do you take a vacuum source for the advance dizzy with these carb ??? i was told the manifold is not good !!!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (kojiru)*

i have mine off of one of the ports on the brake booster valve. but id say your best best is from the carbs them selves. i just didnt have another T connector...


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

My neighbor's dad is a big bike guy and has all the jets and stuff, so I'm going to talk to him a bit about my initial setup. I've still got a bit of wiring to do under the dash, getting power to the ignition system. I alos need to figure out my WOT and closed throttle switch locations for the ign. The TPS on the carbs is actually that, a 5V reference, potentiometer TPS. Bummer. I was hoping I could just use that! Think I can fab up an arm to go in place of that, though, to trip the switches. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Speaking of, anyone here running a CIS-E knock sensor ignition system with their setup? What did you do for the micro switches? I was told I def need to have them. Looked under the dash around the pedal, but that just doesn't look like an easy spot to make work. 


_Modified by YJSAABMAN at 9:16 AM 4-9-2010_


----------



## kojiru (Dec 5, 2005)

but im using CBR900 carb and it dont look like they have vacuum port ???


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (kojiru)*

if they are cv carbs, which almost all most all carbs are now-a-days, especially since they are sport bike carbs they should have a vacuum port. it may not be in a obvious location like mine are but i'm sure they are there.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

I put my aeromotive regulator on and now im having issues. First the engine was flooding and dying and was spitting fuel out the exhaust, so i leaned out, had to go 2 turns! Now it doesnt spit fuel. But it wont idle in one spot. I had it at about 1000 rpm with 2 to 3 psi of fuel. Then i turned it off and when i started it back up it was idling at 600 rpm with 1 to 2 psi of fuel. I dont know what the deal is. 
Thats another thing... the regulator clicks really fast and the gauge bounces with it. Am i going to have to get a carb fuel pump? I was really hoping it wouldnt have to come to that.
Franklin, are you running a carb pump? What is your idle rpm? And what main jet size are you running? Im also having fueling problems at high rpm and im wondering if its the jets


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

yeah, i'm running a 3-5.5 psi pump and i have my idle set to about 750-800 rpm. as for jets i am not sure, i got these carbs from someone who had them on an 8v but it seems to be running very well theres no bog like its running rich but it may be a bit lean. i need my uncle to come by with his air-fuel meter and tell me. what size jets are you running?
edit: running lean is a bad bad thing. i blew up a motor in my bike but it ran awesome for a 400cc bike. then i swapped the bad pistons for high compression ones and had my uncle jet it. now its running a tad rich just to be on the safe side. ha
edit 2: sorry saabman i have no experience with the knock system. i was going to go that route in the beginning but then found it easier to get my hands on a vacuum dizzy

_Modified by 86Franklin at 5:50 PM 4-11-2010_


_Modified by 86Franklin at 5:55 PM 4-11-2010_


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Update on regulator issue,... I had asked my room mate which line the fuel was coming out of on the car when i primed it before i hooked up the reg. He told me the wrong line. The reg was simple hooked up backwards. Now it adjustf fine and stays in one spot.
Its not lean lean, just leaner lol, im wiring up mu air/fuel right now to dial it in. Ill have it so that it idles slightly rich.
Right now my jets are drilled to 1.81mm, but im underfueling at wot. Was talking to a guy on youtube who was having the same issue. He solved it by making the jets bigger to 2.0mm. Ill go up on jet size bit by bit and road test between drillings and watch my air/fuel to get it right.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

well every bike i have drove seems slight over fueled in lower rpms, bogging and what not so id worry mostly about your normal driving speeds being the right air-fuel ratio before your lower and higher rpms (for the better gas mileage) unless you plan on making it a track car where it will see higher rpms more often.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

My plan is to have 2 sets of jets, one for daily driving, which will fuel up to redline. And a set for long drives, which will allow better mps's as you are saying.
So, i bought a new rabbit a couple weeks ago because i missed my old hatchback. Since then i have been swapping the engine from the caddy to the rabbit. Honestly, im glad to have the caddy gone, wasnt my cup o tea. The new rabbit is much cleaner all around and i straightened up everything in the engine bay. Enjoy!








































Nect project: Ram/Cold Air intake... Functional hoodscoop = Pure Win


_Modified by Miami Blue at 7:09 PM 4-11-2010_


----------



## 91jetta_mike (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Okay I feel a bit dumb, but what is up with the red oily stuff on the filters?...










_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_My plan is to have 2 sets of jets, one for daily driving, which will fuel up to redline. And a set for long drives, which will allow better mps's as you are saying.
So, i bought a new rabbit a couple weeks ago because i missed my old hatchback. Since then i have been swapping the engine from the caddy to the rabbit. Honestly, im glad to have the caddy gone, wasnt my cup o tea. The new rabbit is much cleaner all around and i straightened up everything in the engine bay. Enjoy!








































Nect project: Ram/Cold Air intake... Functional hoodscoop = Pure Win

_Modified by Miami Blue at 7:09 PM 4-11-2010_


----------



## 91jetta_mike (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: (91jetta_mike)*

P.S.. Kudos on the motor swap http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm thinkin about swaping out the 8v in the jetta for a diesel


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (91jetta_mike)*

most likely oil for the filters to help keep them clean. idk if it is k&n filter oil he is using but it gives a reddish tint. oh and the swap looks nice!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (91jetta_mike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *91jetta_mike* »_Okay I feel a bit dumb, but what is up with the red oily stuff on the filters?...











Franklin is right, its K&N Filter Oil. The oil is what actually does the filtering in these sort of air filters.
Thanks for the compliments guys


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*FV-QR*


_Quote »_ Nect project: Ram/Cold Air intake... Functional hoodscoop = Pure Win 

i've always wanted to do this just with a kamei hood scoop for an 8v on carbs.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (86Franklin)*

Looking good, Miami! I'm with you, Caddies are cool, but not my cup of tea. Too small in the cab.
I have a general question for everyone, after seeing Miami's side shot of his carbs. What anlge do you guys all have yours mounted at? Worrying about float settings and float bowl angle. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (YJSAABMAN)*

mine are perpendicular to the ground due to the floats.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (YJSAABMAN)*

The R1 carbs (and i imagine most bike carbs) are actually very good at being able to be mounted at many angles. The angle on mine just happened to be where it ended up because of the angle on the head of the engine. Id say that as long as the carbs are mounted somewhere around the angle of the float bowl your good.
I took all of my old CIS parts to the junk yard yesterday. Had like 5 dizzys and 3 ecu's. Anyway... made a trade with the owner of the yard. I got all of the parts necessary to wire up a knock box to my engine and current distributor. This way, the box will advance the timing as far as possible without having the engine ping







I also went ahead and made a wiring diagram for how my set up will be. So if any of you guys decide to go this route also, and the part numbers and wires match, youll know how to wire it.










_Modified by Miami Blue at 12:10 PM 4-17-2010_


----------



## vdubjim (Jan 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

Lots of great info here!!!
Blue, i put your diagram on my site too.
http://vwmegasquirt.tk/


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubjim)*

Right on! Glad to help.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (86Franklin)*

Franklin, you ever figure out your spark issue?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

actually i just took my car for a drive so yeah. i put the old dist back on even though i don't think it was the problem, it just has more adjustment. i also pulled the plugs and dried them off. and i partly think it was fuel a little too. cause when it died before i couldn't get it to start, so i let the pump push fuel into the bowls and just kept cranking to try and get it to start so i may have flooded it on accident. anyway its pretty freaking quick







except it gets hot just idling so i'm going to pick up a new thermo wed. when i get paid. oh and when i was driving i gave it about 1/2 throttle to about 4-4.5 grand and the oil warning light buzzed on the dash until i let of the throttle(which was like 2 secs) any idea why? i am not running stock oil and water temp gauges.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (86Franklin)*

Right on man!
The stock oil light came on, or your aftermarket gauge light turned on? If the gauge came on, does it get its signal electronically or is there a oil line that goes to the gauge? 
Was the engine warmed up?


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

My car was running a bit on the warm side, fine when moving, but temp climbs at a stop. Im running low temp thermostat and fan is on with ignition (for now). I was thinking its still a bit on the lean side?
My stock oil light comes on at 3k-ish and stays on till I shut it down, but I am ONLY running a stewart warner mechanical gauge for oil pressure. Dash light is hooked up to nothing!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

stock light in between the speedo and tach and like frozen's it shouldnt be hooked up to anything. my oil gauge is electric though my temps while moving are about 180 for coolant and 170 for oil. my oil gauges flash HI at 220 and if i let it sit long enough both will reach it. so im going to try new thermo and see if that helps and if not then oil cooler?







and maybe a different radiator? idk


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Right, so I've bought a set of Yamaha R1 carbs, waiting to be delivered. My question/concern: I plan to use steel tube to mate the carbs to the flange, as finding someone to do fab work with aluminum is going to be too expensive in my location. So... should I use 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" steel tube? SCD 30 is most available here... any suggestions?


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_










Whats the nipple for on the side of the carb?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

Frozen: You low temp thermostat is probably the reason your car is running hot. The thermostat is most likely staying fully open all of the time, which means that coolant isnt getting enough time in the radiator. I suggest putting a stock thermostat back in.
Franklin: 220 degrees is high but still normal for engine temp. If your radiator cap isnt having to release pressure then your fine. If it only gets hot when its sitting id check the rad fan.
The oil light in my caddy was also not hooked up to anything and the light would come on. I wouldnt worry about it.
Pnavaroo: Carb i.d. is 40mm. 1.5in i.d. tube would be the better choice. It is only 2mm smaller than the carbs which will actually help keep air velocity up.


_Modified by Miami Blue at 9:48 PM 4-18-2010_


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (impulse byer)*

The nipple on the side of the regulator is for boost referance. Since i am not boosted, the nipple is left open to atmosphere.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

i know it is within operating range but thats just what my gauge says. i may get new ones because the ones i have now were fairly cheap but work for now. well there is pressure so it sounds like it may be the thermo? and my fan is on a switch and at the highest speed so i dont think its that i can stand by the driver side door with hood off and feel the fan haha.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

Miami Blue: thanks for the advise, another question is... the inlet ports are from a counterflow 8v head... which are 30mm wide by 34mm tall... I'll have to do something imaginative to make this work... maybe... make the tubes smaller at the flange? Do I explain myself? Probably use smaller diameter tube? I fear that if 1.5" tube is used, I won't even be able to bolt things up!


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_The R1 carbs (and i imagine most bike carbs) are actually very good at being able to be mounted at many angles. The angle on mine just happened to be where it ended up because of the angle on the head of the engine. Id say that as long as the carbs are mounted somewhere around the angle of the float bowl your good.
I took all of my old CIS parts to the junk yard yesterday. Had like 5 dizzys and 3 ecu's. Anyway... made a trade with the owner of the yard. I got all of the parts necessary to wire up a knock box to my engine and current distributor. This way, the box will advance the timing as far as possible without having the engine ping







I also went ahead and made a wiring diagram for how my set up will be. So if any of you guys decide to go this route also, and the part numbers and wires match, youll know how to wire it.









_Modified by Miami Blue at 12:10 PM 4-17-2010_

Thanks, Blue. I'd done some research and everything I found seemed to indicate that the system wouldn't work right w/o the throttle switches. Not using them certainly keeps things cleaner and easier.
Also good to see the Aeromotive reg up and running with excellent results! This will simplify my fuel system install much! 
Tax return is due in my accoutn tomorrow, so here we come running Cabby! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Or... instead of using steel tubing, use copper? Welded with bronze... how's that for low budget?


----------



## vdubjim (Jan 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (pnavarro)*

use the bottom of the crossflow manifold and make something for an adapter?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubjim)*

Franklin: Id start out by flushing your coolant system. Then have your rad cap pressure tested, they can cause overheating when bad. If thats not the issue then test the thermo, you can do that right at home. 
Pnavaroo: Try tapering your runners down so that they match the carbs and head as much as possible, it doesnt have to be perfect. 
YJSAABMAN: From what ive read, if the throttle switches arent connected the knock box will referance the vacuum port by default. Some say that with more agressive cams running the box that way will cause the timing to search. Im going to try it out, if it doesnt work ill throw an idle switch on there. Ill have info on how it works for me this weekend.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

coolant is brand new and went in a flushed system and rebuilt engine. as for the cap where can i get it pressure tested? also should there be pressure on the cap or no? as for the thermo ill get a new one anyway cause it came out of the 8v which would over heat in 90*+ weather sitting at stop lights for to long and they are cheap.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (86Franklin)*

Maybe you know this, maybe you dont. Ill explain anyway just to make things clear.
Yes there is supposed to be pressure on the cap. The cap is made so that when the coolant gets hot and expands the pressure in the system rises. The purpose for having the pressure rise is that under pressure, the boiling point of water rises. Which is why your not supposed to open the cap when the coolant is hot... the pressure in the system will return to atmospheric, and the coolant will boil instantly, which could cause injury when it spews out. 
When your coolant system overheats or is a little too full, the cap is designed to release excess pressure. Which is what i mentioned before. If you notice coolant around your rad cap after you drive then most likely your overheating (not that you are) Or the cap could be bad.
If you want to be on the safe side and test your cap, the auto parts store should be able to test it for you free of charge.


_Modified by Miami Blue at 9:16 PM 4-19-2010_


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

Pressure regulator, pressure gauge, filter, fittings, lines, and wideband ordered. Woot!


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

My car was running a bit on the warm side, fine when moving, but temp climbs at a stop. Im running low temp thermostat and fan is on with ignition (for now). I was thinking its still a bit on the lean side?
My stock oil light comes on at 3k-ish and stays on till I shut it down, but I am ONLY running a stewart warner mechanical gauge for oil pressure. Dash light is hooked up to nothing!








Odd, double post a week later?!


_Modified by FROZEN337 at 9:39 AM 4-21-2010_


----------



## vdubjim (Jan 30, 2000)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

got a decent fan shroud on it?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

Pretty sure its your thermostat man


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

Fan/shroud are good. Im hoping to mess with it over the weekend, new thermostat and I want to relocate my FPR to the pass side. 
Reading about vacuum, woundering if my distributor issue is my vacuum point on the mani? I have it off the bottom of the runner after the carb, thinking I might try to pull vacuum off the carbs for the distributor. Keep the runner line for booster only.
I did run great for about a month, but IDK what went worng? My timing light doesnt have advance on it, not gonna buy one for $100 when the distributor is $225! 
Any thoughts?


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

Question . . . 
Anyone know if a MKI with an ABA swap will work with a 1.7L (might have been a 1.6L?) distributor?! Maybe I need a 1.8L (GTI/GLI) part?!


_Modified by FROZEN337 at 10:12 AM 4-21-2010_


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FROZEN337* »_Question . . . 
Anyone know if a MKI with an ABA swap will work with a 1.7L (might have been a 1.6L?) distributor?! Maybe I need a 1.8L (GTI/GLI) part?!

_Modified by FROZEN337 at 10:12 AM 4-21-2010_

I'm running a MKII 1.8L GLI CIS-E distributor with my setup because I'm running the associated knock sensor setup. This dist has no vac advance. If you aren't running the associated knock box and ign module, I'd stick with a standard vac advance dist. I'm not sure if some years have better curves than others, though. 
Edit: You'll need the Techtonics adapter ring and later dist gear to run the earlier dist. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by YJSAABMAN at 8:40 AM 4-21-2010_


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (YJSAABMAN)*

frozen i have a vac advance dist out of my jh i could sell you







ha


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (86Franklin)*

I have the gear/ring on there. I did call TT and spoke to them about this . . .
1.6L disto will NOT work http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
SOOO . . . I am buying a 1.8L off a MKI GTI! Sorry Franklin! GLWS?!
I wish I had asked about that when I started this!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

haha its alright i have tons of stuff that ill start selling soon so no biggie.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

Hey Frozen let me know if the vacuum referance off the carbs work. Id like to do that rather than messing with my manifold more.


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

I will look into it, but after talking to TT, think it will be fine off the single runner.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

I hooked a boost gauge up to what i thought were vacuum ports on the carbs. They arent. I ended up going to Ace hardware and getting the pieces i needed to make a T off the brake booster line


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

I talked to the guys at NLS, they say to pull vacuum off EACH runner! That will be the last thing I try! Yes, Im that lazy!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

yeah lol i think there is PLENTY of vacuum in one runner. Ill hook up the boost gauge and check.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (FROZEN337)*

Okay, so i just tested vacuum with the boost gauge. I can see why it is better to run off multiple runners. The gauge was bouncing between -100kpa and -400kpa at idle (bouncing every time the intake valves opened and closed) When i reved it up the reading leveled out between the two idle readings. And when i let off the throttle and allowed the rpm's to return to idle the gauge would read smooth at -500kpa till it reached idle again.
I should do this right and have my bro weld a small tube connected to all off my runners as a vacuum plenum.


_Modified by Miami Blue at 7:23 PM 4-21-2010_


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Miami Blue)*

Here's what I did, i drilled each runner and tapped NPT and just simply put hose fittings, sealing them with ... some sort of paste. No leaks and the vacuum gauge reads correctly!


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Right! So I got my set of Yamaha R1 carbs today! Happy as hell too!
I've been looking for the following info: My engine is a 1.8 8v with a Golf Mk2 GTi camshaft, pistons overbored to 0.020, how big should I drill the main jets? I've seen on this thread that this should be around 1.6... 1.65... 1.83... 2mm... but you guys run 16 valve engines!
The head on this engine is counterflow... any advise please?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (pnavarro)*

Im gonna get a vacuum reservoir and mount it back by my box to take care of the spikes, i dont wanna put any more holes in my pretty manifold








pnavaro: Every engine is different. Start out with the smallest recomended size and work your way up till it works properly. Thats what i did.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Tap underneath!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (pnavarro)*

lol Ill try that if the reservoir doesnt work, its only ten bucks for one. Plus, its good to let the readers of the thread know all of their options


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

*Re: (pnavarro)*

Too true!
A vacuum reservoir... any pics of that?


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (pnavarro)*









Its just a little ball with a check valve in the inlet port
Im curious as to if it will work or not lol, worth a try


_Modified by Miami Blue at 9:05 PM 4-21-2010_


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (pnavarro)*

Actually... now that i think about it, maybe i should just tap all of the runners and do it a proven way


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

I don't know if is really an issue. I have seen it done both ways, 1 line and 4, everyone I asked running 1 said there was no problems. I thought about running a vacuum can too, but figured I'll wait till it's an issue!


----------



## vdubjim (Jan 30, 2000)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

my mani on my 16v i got from germany had only one port tapped, brakes worked fine, car ran fine.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

It's enough for the brake booster, but for a vacuum gauge it's not... the point is to have readings from all 4 cylinders.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_Actually... now that i think about it, maybe i should just tap all of the runners and do it a proven way









Less clutter under the hood. 
Yeah, i was wondering about pulling vacuum from the carbs, as well, but they all seem to be vent/breather ports.







Why the hell do you need that many breathers? Still need to get my plate for the manifold.


----------



## littlegti84 (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

I have a dumb question...
There is no reason that the knock-box wiring diagram shown in this thread wouldn't work for an 8v right? I realize the wire colors vary from year to year, but otherwise nothing is different right?
Also, we wouldn't use the WOT switch right? I don't think it is shown in the diagram either. I'm actually running Weber DCOE's...
Also, some of you mentioned using a vacuum reservoir, this won't work as it would maintain a fairly constant vacuum even under hard acceleration and not dropping as it should. Porting to multiple runners is probably the best route.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (littlegti84)*

Yeah the knock box set up will work on pretty much anything. 
Im going to go ahead and try the vacuum can out and see what happens. I also decided that im going to run an idle switch... So that the vacuum still left in the tank doesnt effect idle.
The WOT switch is used for going to open loop on CIS fuel systems, so no it is not needed.
Edit.... Maybe now that im running the idle switch the vacuum can wont matter since vacuum pulsation smooths out above idle RPM. Im gonna try it out!


_Modified by Miami Blue at 7:53 PM 4-22-2010_


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Had all of my new ignition stuff ready to go yesterday. Wouldnt start. I checked and rechacked my wiring and its good. Plugged a different icm in, nothing changed. Then i took the knock box out and opened it up to look for any obvious problems. What i found was a water line from where there had been a puddle of water in the box at some point. Hopefully the junk yard will trade me for a good one and itlll start right up.
For now im back to my old ignition.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Is there a small drill bit size sales website? The smallest drill bit I got is the 1.6mm... and the next one is like 2.3mm...


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_Had all of my new ignition stuff ready to go yesterday. Wouldnt start. I checked and rechacked my wiring and its good. Plugged a different icm in, nothing changed. Then i took the knock box out and opened it up to look for any obvious problems. What i found was a water line from where there had been a puddle of water in the box at some point. Hopefully the junk yard will trade me for a good one and itlll start right up.
For now im back to my old ignition.

Can't wait to hear how you make out! One switch under the dash is a whole lot easier than 2, and I'd really like to keep the bay as uncluttered as possible. 
I will be running the knock setup on an ABA. The knock setup I have is from an 8V CIS-E car. 
Picked up a 4"x12"x1/2" piece of aluminum for my intake flange Thursday! Between work, vending at a show Sat, and working on the boat Sudday I haven't had any time to even lay out the gasket and trace it! LOL!


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

I pit my idle switch right on the carburetor where the tps position was.








I also started thinking about my air intake. When the hood is closed it will look pretty much like that. In front of the scoop the hood will curve down in to the carbs, so the opening will be much bigger. Inside the filters will be isolated form the rest of the engine bay... No more heat soaking off the radiator. I was a little concerned if there was going to be negative or positive air pressure there but i found some wind tunnel pics and there is def positive pressure! Ram air!


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

miami that looks nice! can't wait to see what it looks like done.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (86Franklin)*

Update on the knock box... Dont do it. I have checked every connection, checked the box, checked the icm. Wiring is perfect. Box and icm are good. Car still wont start.
Its not worth the effort.
Im giving up on it as of right now.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_Update on the knock box... Dont do it. I have checked every connection, checked the box, checked the icm. Wiring is perfect. Box and icm are good. Car still wont start.
Its not worth the effort.
Im giving up on it as of right now.

Do you have the right distributor? I know there's differences in the 8V cars between the knock and non-knock distributors. Knock sensor ones don't have any vac advance. MAyeb part of the issue?
Intake setup looks sick! May take a similar route, with mine, we'll see. Still not sure, I may go to a narrower rad to get the air through the grille.


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

The distributor is the only thing i can think of. Its the one that goes with the engine. The origional computer that went with it had knock sensors so idk. 
Maybe i cant do it with my set up. Oh well. 
Ill probably keep thinking about it and end up trying again.


----------



## vdubjim (Jan 30, 2000)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

it will probably do well for a rain/puddle intake too.
i ran a KR dizzy on mine with no brain, worked ok for me.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Miami Blue* »_The distributor is the only thing i can think of. Its the one that goes with the engine. The origional computer that went with it had knock sensors so idk. 
Maybe i cant do it with my set up. Oh well. 
Ill probably keep thinking about it and end up trying again.
 
Well I'll be sure to post up how I make out with it on my ABA. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*Re: (YJSAABMAN)*

Right on man!


----------



## rocco858488 (Sep 14, 2005)

*Re: (Miami Blue)*

Keep this thread going, Great info!! More video!!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Pictures! I got my R1 carbs, nothing special as many pictures have been posted already, but here are a few pics. 









Fuel pump - I'm not sure if its from a Yamaha R1, but seems like it will do the job. 









Changed the float bowl phillips screws to allen type screws. Will probably change to stainless steel. 









The old intake and the new carbs. Tubes were 1". 









How they will fit. 

















The old Mikuni VM26SS carbs off a KZ900, a 1976 bike. 26mm venturi. The new Mikuni BDSR40 5JJ off the R1 bike. 

I'll drill the main jet to 1.6mm and start from there. 

The car is a VW Pointer with a 1.8 8v engine. Counterflow head. This should be interesting.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Hey guys, I need your input on this:

Finally installed the carbs on my motor, 3 1/2 turns on the idle screw, engine did not turn, gave it a half turn and it fired up. Noticed that the intake manifold was leaking gas, did not use sealing compound. But also saw gas squirting from the little air valve located at the front of the carbs... never saw this comment before, what could it be?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

use rtv gasket to stop the leak at the manifold. as for the gas squirting from the carbs either your floats are stuck or not adjusted correctly. first take a rubber mallet and tap each bowl. if that doesnt stop the gas then you're going to have to adjust the floats.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Thanks for the reply Franklin!

Any pointers on how to adjust the floaters?

Here is a vid of the job...


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

If the needle valve seat o-ring is dirty/contaminated, could this be causing the gas to spit from the thingy next to the pilot air jet?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

lets make sure its the floats before you mess with them. Pinch off the gas line so no gas is getting to the carbs. start the car, if it is the floats then this should stop the gas from coming out the front of the carbs, because the gas wont be overflowing the bowls. also it may not be your floats fault, it could be that the fuel pressure is to high. how high is your fuel pressure?


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Fuel pressure... I have no idea, but the fuel pump that you see in the vid comes from a bike too. Supposedly it's from an R1 bike, but... I don't think it is, anyhow, it must be from a comparable size bike. It's a Mitsubishi pump. Does shut off when the carbs are full.

Anyways... took it for a spin, and damn, does it FLY!!! I'm so happy now. Checked to see if it was still spitting, and... noticed that it wasn't. So... I don't know what's what.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

my guess is that the floats were stuck or need adjusted. if it stopped after you got on it then you didnt have as much fuel in the bowls as you do when youre idling (hence no squirting gas). keep an eye on it, if it continues the you probably should adjust the floats. hopefully they were just stuck.


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Thing is... I stripped them down totally, everything except taking each carb apart from the whole assembly. Removed EVERYTHING, Used carb cleaner. So... hmmm. Alright, I'll adjust the thingy on the floaters.


----------



## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

sorry for the stupid question since i didnt want to read through all the pages, but what injection system was on the car? your just running the bike fuel pump straight to the carbs? no need for standalone? i have cis on my 8v and want to swap to bike carbs but dont wanna swap the managment.


----------



## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

motor looks awsome btw


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

carbs do not use injection. fuel is supplied from the bowls on the carbs via jets. itb's use fuel injection, which requires stand-alone. but carbs use a high volume low pressure fuel pump to get the gas from the tank to the carbs unlike itb's which require a high pressure fuel pump. but seriously read the entire thread it will save you a lot of unneeded questions.


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Drove the jetta to work! Runs a little rough at low/crusing RPMs, but get on it . . . nailed to the seat :laugh: New fan is here, that will be in this weekend. Going to calibrate my wideband again and get the hood back on (maybe!) Next week it should have a NY state inspection and be 100% road worthy! 

Now I just need to paint it! 
Pics/video this weekend.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

i'll be waiting


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

i realize that but was just wondering. how are these to tune compared to sidedrafts?


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

most bike carbs are side drafts (other than late model bike carbs which are down draft but can be mounted in a side draft orientation )... but i think you are referring to webers. and really i've never seen stats which perform better. bike carbs are just cheaper


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

bmxguy said:


> sorry for the stupid question since i didnt want to read through all the pages, but what injection system was on the car? your just running the bike fuel pump straight to the carbs? no need for standalone? i have cis on my 8v and want to swap to bike carbs but dont wanna swap the managment.


 If you're asking me, Magnetti Marelli fuel injection system was original. The bike fuel pump is the only thing, a couple of fuel filters, that's all. I totally lost management, just the distributor, and the coil.


----------



## this is my new username (Apr 11, 2006)

just got my motor yesterday. 2.0 16v im currently waiting on my r1 carbs (i won on ebay for 60 bucks.) and my header which should be here any day. now to sort out a pump and a regulator. this thread is great. i think i have most of my questions answered from reading every page. but i'll post pictures and keep this thread moving.:thumbup:


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Be sure to get a GOOD fuel pump and a GOOD regulator! 

Been driving mine around last few days! Someone asked me about miles per gallon today at work . . . my reply
"I dont care!" Im all about the "smiles per gallon" 

Thing is so loud and has that "snap yer neck" throttle response! I still need to clean up a few wires under the hood, but that would take time away from driving it! Hope to swp the ABA exhaust manifold for an AEG, get a GTI trans in place of my 1983 GL 5 speed and drive it as much as I can till winter!
pics/video SOON!


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## this is my new username (Apr 11, 2006)

arent you running a 16v? i didnt think the aba or the aeg exhaust manifolds would fit that head.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

My car has an ABA, but for running carbs, most of it is the same for ABA/16V.


----------



## theillusionofsafety (Feb 27, 2007)

awesome thread can't wait to get mine going:thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Nice to hear you'rte up and running, Frozen! Still haven't had time to do a thing with mine. Haven't been around much because the new 'tex doiesn't like the acient computer at work with IE 6 on it! :banghead: Hope to get my manifold done, soon, and get some new couplers. :thumbup:


----------



## Jeff92 (Aug 5, 2009)

*What size?*

What size are the carbs that you are using?


----------



## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Its running good and decent mpg. Had to replace my coolant lines last night, joy. The stock oil cooler is trash. I yanked my old hoses, bypassed the oil cooler with my new hoses and its good now. Not sure if I had a leak on the cooler or the hose, but I had the new hose to put on, just being lazy! Going to run a external oil cooler anyways. Going to replace my fuel lines under the hood soon, thanks to 8' of free steel braided line (rated to 1500 psi!) just need some NPT fitting for the FPR and a new filter. Maybe one day I will start working on the body! 

R1 carbs are 40mm of awesomeness. 

If I ever finish my other head with a 288, I might switch to old Honda 1100XX/Blackbird carbs, 42mm!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Hmm, I thought mine measured in at 38mm, but I'd have to double check. Either way, they should be fun! LOL!

Dropped the piece of aluminum for my head flange off at the machine shop last Thursday. :thumbup:


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## eltio (Sep 3, 2009)

what sizes the coupler has to be ?


----------



## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Hmm, I thought mine measured in at 38mm, but I'd have to double check. Either way, they should be fun! LOL!
> 
> Dropped the piece of aluminum for my head flange off at the machine shop last Thursday. :thumbup:


If they are 38mm than they might me r6 carbs. I am working on some right now and they are 38mm.


----------



## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

Here is my set-up...





































The car:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

What carbs are those? Model of bike, model of carbs please?


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

They are off a 99 yamaha r6. Everyone thinks bigger is better, But thats not true. The model is Keihin CVRD37. Stock main jets are #152 with 36.5mm venturi's. Plenty to fuel a 2.0 16v.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

wantacaddybad said:


> The car:


GREAT WALL OF CHINA! Makes me wan to paint my car white! How cloes to running is it?

I went with the R1 carbs because I will have a redonkulous head and 288 in a month or two and I want as much flow as I can get!


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> GREAT WALL OF CHINA! Makes me wan to paint my car white! How cloes to running is it?
> 
> I went with the R1 carbs because I will have a redonkulous head and 288 in a month or two and I want as much flow as I can get!


I will take that as a compliment.. Thank you. I need to wire up my msd and get bigger main air jets.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

Very SEXY!


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

Miami Blue said:


> Very SEXY!


Thanks brotha :thumbup:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

wantacaddybad said:


> They are off a 99 yamaha r6. Everyone thinks bigger is better, But thats not true. The model is Keihin CVRD37. Stock main jets are #152 with 36.5mm venturi's. Plenty to fuel a 2.0 16v.


Thanks for the info, car looks wicked!


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Thanks for the info, car looks wicked!


Appreciate the kind words. :thumbup:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

thats nice! im jealous of your wheels  and now i want a large duck bill again.


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> thats nice! im jealous of your wheels  and now i want a large duck bill again.


Im actually going to go with the small chin spoiler. Trying to get chrome euro bumpers. Do you happen to have a wiring diagram for your ignition that you can post for me? I seem to be having trouble with spark.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

do you have the complete large duck bill? cause if so ill trade you my small one 

here is my car from yesterday when i actually started driving it 








as you can tell the paint is shot and the core support is mangled. but there is very little rust except on the trunk door...


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

What is everyone running for fuel pressure? I got my car started for tghe first time in who knows how long... And it was spitting out black smoke like it was either really flooded or my fuel pressure is to high. I also need to sync them and mess with the idle mixture perhapse? 
Thanks guys


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

my car's fuel is running at 4 1/5 psi


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

I would recommend that you use a bike fuel pump. No regulators to worry about.


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## Jeff92 (Aug 5, 2009)

From what year should I grab the R1 carbs?


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## noopS (Jun 28, 2010)

so awesome. i'll definitely be doing this to my 16v


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Picked up my flange from the machine shop yesterday, and OMG is it beautiful! He's got the program for it saved, so I can get more made if anyone is interested. Pics to come, only on the phone and haven't mastered the phone to computer thing yet. Ordering new couplers to mount the carbs to the runners, then I can get the mani welded. Also ordered a few more tidbits for my fuel system and a micro switch for the idle circuit of the ignition. 

Getting excited and loving all the Cabby love in this thread!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Jeff92 said:


> From what year should I grab the R1 carbs?


1999 to 2001.


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## ValleyGTI (Oct 20, 2004)

Has anyone got these things dialed in all the way, for either daily or track set ups. Just curios they look sharp.:thumbup:


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

Got mine to idle steady at 1100 rpm. Any one know the size drill bit they used to drill the main jets? I tried to order #182.5 jets but parts unlimited have none at the moment. :banghead:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

wantacaddybad said:


> Got mine to idle steady at 1100 rpm. Any one know the size drill bit they used to drill the main jets? I tried to order #182.5 jets but parts unlimited have none at the moment. :banghead:


I started with 1.6mm drill... start with that...


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> I started with 1.6mm drill... start with that...


Thank you. Also, has anyone changed any air correctors or pilot jets? I want to TUNE the **** out of these things.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

wantacaddybad said:


> Thank you. Also, has anyone changed any air correctors or pilot jets? I want to TUNE the **** out of these things.



Great question, I'd like to know that too! But is it really necessary with these R1 carbs? I have read that the air pilots are BLOCKED... I could be wrong...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

wantacaddybad said:


> Thank you. Also, has anyone changed any air correctors or pilot jets? I want to TUNE the **** out of these things.





pnavarro said:


> Great question, I'd like to know that too! But is it really necessary with these R1 carbs? I have read that the air pilots are BLOCKED... I could be wrong...


Friend of mine's dad (god that makes me feel like I'm back in high school! :laugh is big into bike stuff, so I'm going to talk to him, take the carbs, have him go over some stuff with me, etc. Hopefully I can come up with some good tuning info!

New carb to mani couplers, choke cable, and final fuel system fittings have arrived! Where's a damned TIG welder when I need one? Hope to have decent weather Weds or Thurs to test fit everything and see how my carb angle is. :thumbup:


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Great question, I'd like to know that too! But is it really necessary with these R1 carbs? I have read that the air pilots are BLOCKED... I could be wrong...


I have the r6 carbs. Cv series are all similar to eachother im sure. Looks like I need to do some more research on them and see what jets do what and how to get the correct settings. Im sure that there is way more tuning to it than just changing the main jets. I want to get every ounce of power I can with these. 150-160whp shouldnt be out of the question with a good tune and the right exhaust.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

I've seen that the needle is also modified to provide more or less fueling, but that's about it... that's what I've read in articles that talk about this mod...


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

The two sets of R1 carbs I have, one has adjustable needles, the other does not. I "fine" tuned mine with the needles, to get a good A/F mix. I spoke with a tech at a local dealer, he says other then jets and moving the needles, not a lot to fine tune. He did say try larger/smaller jets and play with the needles and I might get a tad more power. I have noticed on wicked humid days it runs really lean at idle, fine under load. I dont know if you could get a perfect tune with carbs (like TBs) because weather will effect them more. 

As for fuel pressure, 3 1/2 is max from what I have been told by a few bike tuners and the tech. Im running 3psi for my carbs.

At some point I will play with the cam gear, but I want them at the max before I mess with it. I plan on doing a real exhaust too (2 1/2" cherry bomb side exit right now!) think I will get a little more power then too.

I have talked to a few people and 150-160 should be easy! I talked to a guy with head work, cams, header and R1 carbs and claims just over 180whp! I hope he is not full of bull!


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> The two sets of R1 carbs I have, one has adjustable needles, the other does not. I "fine" tuned mine with the needles, to get a good A/F mix. I spoke with a tech at a local dealer, he says other then jets and moving the needles, not a lot to fine tune. He did say try larger/smaller jets and play with the needles and I might get a tad more power. I have noticed on wicked humid days it runs really lean at idle, fine under load. I dont know if you could get a perfect tune with carbs (like TBs) because weather will effect them more.
> 
> As for fuel pressure, 3 1/2 is max from what I have been told by a few bike tuners and the tech. Im running 3psi for my carbs.
> 
> ...


 I will have to open them up and take a peak to see what i can do for adjustment. I need a wideband o2 sensor.. Any one running a narrow band 02? And as for work done to my car... Other than the carbs, I have a longer manifold than usual (hoping for more midrange grunt) all new seals and gaskets, southbend stage 2 clutch, bfi stage 2 mounts, usrt shift kit, raceland 4-2-1 headers, and a tt 2.25'' stainless exhaust single resonator to borla. No cat. I should have 150whp no problem


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

Oh. And msd ignition..


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## WolfzGangVR6 (Jan 1, 2002)

i have an old set of yamaha carbs. i think they might be too small though, like 30mm or something... not measured yet. 
at any rate.....
i have a low mileage 2.0l 16v that i'm getting ready to freshen up. i was thinking about using the bike carbs or aquiring another set like the 98-01's. currently i'm running a stock 8v in an 87 jetta coupe. it's on cis-e with the o2 and knock box. i wanted to swap in the 16v and keep my factory ignition control. is it possible to run the 16v dizzy with the 8v computer? and am i still using the ecu to control spark or is it controlled by the knock box? 
next is can i eliminate my factory ecu and wiring all together or do i need it for alt control? i was gonna try to keep a/c by making a custom manifold, but i assume i need the ecu for that too?

thanks in advance gents! alot of people wanna go standalone but i wanna go backwards!! :screwy:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Finally!! Pics of my goodies!

ABA head flange! Unfotunately it's pouring today, or I'd check my carb angle and post full mock-up pics, too.



















My machine shop guy has the program for the 8V crossflow flange saved and he can recreate them. Going to be in the $45-50 range. 

Here's a few with the carbs and runners mocked up on the flange.


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## Mr.E.Guest (May 9, 2008)

Everyone seems to be using R1 carbs. I dont know anything about bikes but I am assuming the 1 means it is a 1000 cc bike. Is it possible to use carbs off a smaller bike? I have a set off a Honda CB750 Will these be too small? Thanks


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Art.

From the pics it looks like your carbs/runners angel down a little? Mine have a tad up angel and clear the alt by about 5mm! Are you going to use the factory stud to mount the manifold? I used Allen heads and the upper inside 2 half to be shorter due to the runners being in the way.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Mr.E.Guest said:


> Everyone seems to be using R1 carbs. I dont know anything about bikes but I am assuming the 1 means it is a 1000 cc bike. Is it possible to use carbs off a smaller bike? I have a set off a Honda CB750 Will these be too small? Thanks


The "1" is for 1000cc and "R" is for Rabbit! haha 

They should work? What size are they? From what I have found/read, the R1 carbs work great because they flow great at most odd angels.


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## 01 (Sep 9, 2009)

YJSAABMAN, that looks fantastic. looks perfect. now you need to start selling them


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

If tig welders were cheap, would make manifolds cheap and sell them myself!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

OMG, that looks awesome! That will look great once finished.


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## Mr.E.Guest (May 9, 2008)

FROZEN337 said:


> The "1" is for 1000cc and "R" is for Rabbit! haha
> 
> They should work? What size are they? From what I have found/read, the R1 carbs work great because they flow great at most odd angels.


Thanks. I think they are 28mm. I thought I would just have to worry about the jets but everyone using the carbs from bigger bikes had me worried! 
I wanted to use the ones I had because they have no plastic bits so would look nice polished up.


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

28mm is way to small.


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## Mr.E.Guest (May 9, 2008)

Oh well.  Thanks.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Thanks, guys, I'm absolutely tickled with the way it's coming out. I just wish it wasn't taking so freaking long!

Yes, my runners angle down a little bit. I'm more concerned with hood clearance than alt. The ABA serp tensioner hit the unibody rail on my car for some reason, so I built a lower mount alt bracket to clear the float bowls and use a MKII style toothed adjusting arm. Should ahve pics of that floating around here, somewhere. 

As for mounting the manifold, the ABA uses allen bolts all around to mount the manifold, though the lower holes in the center may need a little clearance once the runners are welded. Sun is out and shining brightly today, so I hope to check the angle and get some in bay shots here, shortly!


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I have no issues with hood clearance with the upward angel on my ABA. The bolt hits on my car too, prolly go ABF down the road. For now Im letting it hit! I also cut 3/4" off the lower ALT bolt, it come out fine. It was to long to get out and remove the ALT, oops! If I don't go ABF, 5lbs sledge will work to get a bit more clearance for the tensioner bolt.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> I have no issues with hood clearance with the upward angel on my ABA. The bolt hits on my car too, prolly go ABF down the road. For now Im letting it hit! I also cut 3/4" off the lower ALT bolt, it come out fine. It was to long to get out and remove the ALT, oops! If I don't go ABF, 5lbs sledge will work to get a bit more clearance for the tensioner bolt.


My bay was just painted and I'm mad enough that I scratched the paint down there, but I'm not about to go after it with a BFH at this point! Lived and learned about test fitting the engine before painting the bay! Had things at the car, and I'm going to need to adjust my runner angle a bit, yet, where they mate with the flange to get the float bowl angle a little better. I'll have to page back and look at your setup again.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I would be pissed too! Only reason my bay is nasty, time. Thought I was running out and had to get the car running. I was wrong. BFH or go home, that's what the kids say, right?!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> I would be pissed too! Only reason my bay is nasty, time. Thought I was running out and had to get the car running. I was wrong. BFH or go home, that's what the kids say, right?!


Thought that was more in reference to turbo/firewall clearance? :laugh: I'm also not a kid, anymore, and have learned not to listen to most of them because, more often than not, they don't know what they're talking about!


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

Is anyone running hotter plugs than stock in there cars? If so, what brand and part number. 
-Troy


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I am running the $3 Bosch plugs.

Any input would be nice! I need new ones and some PN and legit reasons, Im buying them!

I love the "know it all" kids, ask a technical question and nothing, but they will bash your wheels for 10+ pages!!


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> I am running the $3 Bosch plugs.
> 
> Any input would be nice! I need new ones and some PN and legit reasons, Im buying them!
> 
> I love the "know it all" kids, ask a technical question and nothing, but they will bash your wheels for 10+ pages!!


 Is this referring to myself?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

wantacaddybad said:


> Is this referring to myself?


Yes.

I have asked a few people, that I trust will know the right answer, and they all have said the "basic" plugs are fine, but if I can get something better . . .


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

Hey everyone! I havent been on here in a while, im pleased to see that its still active in here! Liking the progress everyone is making too!

Ive recently had a couple people message me and ask what ignition set up im running, so i drew up some schematics.

This set up has no timing advance. The engine will not run with as much power or effeciency that it is capable of. It is very easy and cheap to run though. And if your really trying to keep your engine bay clean it has very few wires.

Id rather be running better ignition but im going to hold off till after i graduate and build a new 16v. Next engine will have standalone efi and ignition.

Here is the schematics!


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## 01 (Sep 9, 2009)

just run a early mk1 vac advance dist. good to go.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

Thats the reason that there are so many ignition questions on this forum. Alot of us are running the 9a engine, on which the dizzy is located on the head. So its either got to be electronic ignition or a vacuum advance dizzy from a different car that.. kind of works.


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## this is my new username (Apr 11, 2006)

im just looking for some silicone couplers to go from my 9a lower mani to my carbs and we're ready to put it all together! im glad to see everyone is still working on their cars and making good progress.


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

I got a question, can you share where and which couplers you got for your carb setup ? I'm bout to go crazy on my lower intake with a saw and would love some hints.

I'm pulling a old 8V 1.8 with 200K on it for a 9A w/header,cams and carbs.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

DasTeknoViking said:


> I got a question, can you share where and which couplers you got for your carb setup ? I'm bout to go crazy on my lower intake with a saw and would love some hints.
> 
> I'm pulling a old 8V 1.8 with 200K on it for a 9A w/header,cams and carbs.


 Ebay. Thats where I bought mine.


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## vwkidd8v87 (Dec 24, 2008)

what do i use for the ignition control module and idle stabilizer when going from a 1.8 8v with cis to a 2.0 16v?how do i waire up the hal sensor on the dist to these two other things and do i have to have the idle stabilizer?


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

I bought two of these couplers and cut them in half: 
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...d=608&osCsid=07978d442eaf5f9d539333b3e391b591 

I just posted the ignition info your looking for the other day, its on page 10


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

Miami Blue said:


> Thats the reason that there are so many ignition questions on this forum. Alot of us are running the 9a engine, on which the dizzy is located on the head. So its either got to be electronic ignition or a vacuum advance dizzy from a different car that.. kind of works.


 Or an msd ignition with the msd timing controll unit. :beer:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Miami Blue said:


> I bought two of these couplers and cut them in half:
> http://www.siliconeintakes.com/prod...d=608&osCsid=07978d442eaf5f9d539333b3e391b591
> 
> I just posted the ignition info your looking for the other day, its on page 10


 Still getting decent mileage out of yours? I picked up some Vibrant couplers from work, 3" long, and cut them in half, like you did. Forget if mine are 1.5" or 1.75". 

Need to play with my carb angle some more, the float angle isn't even close, right now. Time to dig back into the bin-o-runner parts.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Still getting decent mileage out of yours? I picked up some Vibrant couplers from work, 3" long, and cut them in half, like you did. Forget if mine are 1.5" or 1.75".
> 
> Need to play with my carb angle some more, the float angle isn't even close, right now. Time to dig back into the bin-o-runner parts.


 You should have a 38mm-40mm-ish coupler to mount the carbs to the manifold. 
The carbs should flow fine, as long as they are not upside down! Bogg bros mounts them all sorts of crazy ways, straight up, level, you name it! When I built my manifold, all I worried about was rad and alt clearance. They work awesome.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> You should have a 38mm-40mm-ish coupler to mount the carbs to the manifold.
> The carbs should flow fine, as long as they are not upside down! Bogg bros mounts them all sorts of crazy ways, straight up, level, you name it! When I built my manifold, all I worried about was rad and alt clearance. They work awesome.


 Werd. Just looked back through the first pages at your angle and a couple other people's angles. No float level adjustment required?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Only thing I really messed with was te jets. 

I think this is the link I used, if not I can try to email you the PDF I have 

http://www.bethman.net/r1forum/manuals.html 

I printed up the sevice manuals for 98-99 and 00-01, the microfiche is nice if you tear down the carbs to clean them. 

I know I put this link up like 3 years ago! But I used the info int it for about 90% of my set-up 

http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk/resources/totalvauxhall/TOV64.tech60697.pdf


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

It still just doesn't sit right with me to have the floats that far off angle from factory installed for proper needle and seat operation.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

FROZEN337 said:


> Only thing I really messed with was te jets.
> 
> I think this is the link I used, if not I can try to email you the PDF I have
> 
> ...


 That TOV64 article is a must read for all who want to make this conversion.

I found all the pdf manuals by searching in torrent sites, that link with all the manuals is awesome.


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

I need some help. :banghead: I have the car so upon cold start with the choke on, It starts right up. Let the engine get to running temp and it holds a solid 950 idle. For some reason it seems to be real sluggish revving up. Could this because I have no advance curve? Anyone notice a difference with the saab distributor? 
-Troy


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

wantacaddybad said:


> I need some help. :banghead: I have the car so upon cold start with the choke on, It starts right up. Let the engine get to running temp and it holds a solid 950 idle. For some reason it seems to be real sluggish revving up. Could this because I have no advance curve? Anyone notice a difference with the saab distributor?
> -Troy


 Hmmm... with a blocked distributor, the low range of the revs should be good -I think-, but the top end would be sluggish... could it be that the accelerator cable has become undone and needs readjusting?


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## Stussy NJ (Jun 28, 2008)

anyone do this conversion from a digi 1 system to start with? Also anyone thought of using GSXR carbs from earlier suzukis?


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Hmmm... with a blocked distributor, the low range of the revs should be good -I think-, but the top end would be sluggish... could it be that the accelerator cable has become undone and needs readjusting?


 Ehhh. Its pretty sluggish unless I advance the distributor then it really lets loose... I think thats my problem. Not enough advance. :sly:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

btw, how do you set up the accelerator cable for it to fully open the carbs to the max? 

I mean, I had to guesstimate by placing a cardboard box underneath the gas pedal and fix the cable as best to my ability... you guys get my explanation? Surely, there must be a better way to do this! Any help?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I have a cable adjuster off a motorcycle on the carbs. I cut my stock cable down, put the barrel end on, hooked the cable to the pedal and it's perfect. The carbs throttle wheel has a much shorter spin to wide open, but it works great.


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## vwkidd8v87 (Dec 24, 2008)

this car is going to have to pass emissions how can i make that possible? its a 16v btw with r1 carbs


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

vwkidd8v87 said:


> this car is going to have to pass emissions how can i make that possible? its a 16v btw with r1 carbs


 How do they do emissions in your state? Dyno style, just tail pipe, cavity search?! You can lean it out, run it rich, if you in California, your SOL! What year is the car? I know some states don't do emissions on older car, non OBD, 20 or 25 years old. There are lots of tricks, I can't remember them right now, ask around some old school muscle car guys! I wouldn't sweat it to much, it can be tweeked to pass.


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## vwkidd8v87 (Dec 24, 2008)

i think on my cabby they just do the tail pipe probe check for a cat and gas cap check since it doesnt have obd connectors is lean better in emission situations or should i go for the perfect mixture? ive heard of stories of people loosening their down pipe to cat so some exhaust comes out there. can i lean it out and make it pass?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Loosened bolts will create an exhaust leak which will almost definitely not pass. 

Hoping to talk to a guy about getting my manifold welded up on Sunday. Have a couple of possibilities, just need to talk to them all and figure out who's going to fit my needs and treat my project the best. Picked up the last bits for the fuel system today including the fitting for the fuel pres. gauge, choke cable, and a few plugs for the regulator. Spending tomorrow helping a buddy swap a dual Dellorto fed ABA into his Scirocco, so I'm hoping that and having the parts needed will help light a bit of a fire under my butt!

Miami, on the ignition, I found some discrepancies between your knock sensor wiring and what I came up with from the diagrams in the MKII Bentley. Going to go with what I figured from Bentley and see how mine works and will update your layout, then, if I get mine to work. :thumbup:


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Miami, on the ignition, I found some discrepancies between your knock sensor wiring and what I came up with from the diagrams in the MKII Bentley. Going to go with what I figured from Bentley and see how mine works and will update your layout, then, if I get mine to work. :thumbup:


Please let me know how it works out! I still have 2 knock boxes just sitting around and would love to put one to use!:beer:


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## WolfzGangVR6 (Jan 1, 2002)

dual Dellorto .....
i have a set i just picked up with a vac dizzy. i plan on tackling it this coming weekend. i would love to use my knock box and dizzy if yjsaabman gets his to work. 
otherwise i'm going to just wire up the IC and use the vac dizzy in the mean time. this is all going onto a cise 8v.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Don't hold your breath for me to get mine going! I still need to get my freaking manifold welded. Have a couple of guys to potentially do it, but it's choosing the best option. :banghead:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Question for the experts... 

What adjustments should I do to the carbs if I install and adjustable sprocket? 

I mean this thingy... vernier pulley? Can't remember the name, damn! 










Advise, please?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I set my carbs up with the adjustable cam gear on the car, I should mess with it and see what it does to my "seat-o-pants dyno"! It should be the same as long as you put it on without adjusting it first? 

Is your car running good now? If so, put it on, try adjusting it little by little? Then let me us know how it works out!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

FROZEN337 said:


> I set my carbs up with the adjustable cam gear on the car, I should mess with it and see what it does to my "seat-o-pants dyno"! It should be the same as long as you put it on without adjusting it first?
> 
> Is your car running good now? If so, put it on, try adjusting it little by little? Then let me us know how it works out!


 Car is running beautifully, runs strong, so I'm well happy with it. Alright then, I'll start with it a 0 degrees and try advancing it at a guess rate of 1 degree. The reason I ask is - the magazine articles mention that it might need some fiddling with the main jet needle... but the needles in my carbs only have ONE adjusting position, not several groves to lean or enrich the mixture... 

I'll try fitting it next week then... lets see what happens.


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

Cheap and easy no management easy tunning... sounds like the way to go. I just need to find me some R1 carbs for decent money now.  

1. Thing that might hold me back... Is it not at all possible to keep the A/C? I am also in AZ and it isn't an option to be without with my family. I haven't seen it done at all... I kinda played with the idea of moving the ALT to the PS location and the A/c in its current spot. Any Ideas?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

formerfreeagent said:


> Cheap and easy no management easy tunning... sounds like the way to go. I just need to find me some R1 carbs for decent money now.
> 
> 1. Thing that might hold me back... Is it not at all possible to keep the A/C? I am also in AZ and it isn't an option to be without with my family. I haven't seen it done at all... I kinda played with the idea of moving the ALT to the PS location and the A/c in its current spot. Any Ideas?


 I'd say you're on the right track for keeping the A/C. Make it happen, just move what you need to move. I'd want some kind of splash sheild for the Alt if ti was that low.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

glad to see so many people messin with bike carbs. been a few years since i did mine and its about to go back together in a drag corrado for my girl. projects look cool guys:thumbup:


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## WolfzGangVR6 (Jan 1, 2002)

formerfreeagent said:


> Cheap and easy no management easy tunning... sounds like the way to go. I just need to find me some R1 carbs for decent money now.
> 
> 1. Thing that might hold me back... Is it not at all possible to* keep the A/C*? I am also in AZ and it isn't an option to be without with my family. I haven't seen it done at all... I kinda played with the idea of moving the ALT to the PS location and the A/c in its current spot. Any Ideas?


 i'm doing a setup of dual dellorto's on a counterflow 8v and am gonna keep my a/c also. i think you should go with your idea about moving the alt to the p.s. spot, but i also agree that a splash shield is in order being that close to the ground


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

Well because I am lowering the car so it is 10000000% required. I will be trying to get one cut (a company I work with has a flowjet) out of like 1/8 inch plate for ground protection for quite a bit of stuff. Oil pan and alt and the like.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

http://mason-tech.com/skidplatesCW1.asp


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

its aluminum... I look at it once a month atleast and decide I want one, then I look at it again and decide that I would crumble it like the can it is made out of.... 

I also wonder how much clearance I would have to the ALT in the PS location.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Learn how to avoid pot holes  

Aluminum is lighter and easier to work with for bends and what not but if you have the skills to make one from SS and think it will cost less than that go ahead, I've tried :banghead: 

You should start a new thread in fabrication to see if anyone else has tried and keep this post about carbs. 



Is there any update on the r1 carb manifold?opcorn::beer::beer::beer:


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

mk1 diesel no a/c no p/s had the alternator on the bottom close to the ground originally. if i looked at my caddy in the front, you could actually see the alternator hanging lower than the rad support and only about 3" higher than the oil pan. came like that from the factory so i wouldnt sweat it. yes it was pretty low too on coilovers and axle flip in the rear


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Svedka said:


> Is there any update on the r1 carb manifold?opcorn::beer::beer::beer:


 Which one? There's 4 or 5 different varieties in this thread!  :laugh: ABA or 16V? If you need a flange, shoot em a PM, I can get one made for you. :thumbup: 

As for the low mount Alt, I was thinking more for water protection. Guess it depends on where you are and how much rain you get.


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## ValleyGTI (Oct 20, 2004)

What MSD units you guys using for spark and timing


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

ValleyGTI said:


> What MSD units you guys using for spark and timing


None! MKII knock box setup going in mine.


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## ValleyGTI (Oct 20, 2004)

IM lost now, so ignition options are what?

it sounds like

1. Saab 8v distributor and go vacuum advance(what wires to keep for the coil?)
2. MSD 6a box and some type of timing control
3. factory knock box hybrid system 
4. some type of standalone system MS mega-jolt ETC.

My goals is to ditch all the wiring I can, and keep it clean and simple and easy to make quick adjustments when Im at the track

I think option two would be the best or a combination of 1 and 2

Thanks for the help


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

another AZ'er here wanting to make the switch to carbs. I have been tossing this idea around for a while now, weighing it against running ITBs instead. After reading through this thread I have decided to go and run carbs instead because it seems easier and not as costly as finding an ITB setup to work properly on my ABA. Which takes me to my questions lol. I have noticed mostly everyone here is running the counterflow 8v or the 16v....how difficult will doing this be on a crossflow 8v aba? the motor is currently being freshened up and I am going to get some head work and cam done as well before the motor goes back in. Will running R1 carbs still suffice? Will I be able to run my stock ignition system or should I switch it? This is my first time attempting this and will unfortunately be doing most of this on my own, unless Miami wants to come help haha........looking forward to all the help and getting this setup installed in my 92 monty :thumbup::beer:


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Heidelberg2az said:


> another AZ'er here wanting to make the switch to carbs. I have been tossing this idea around for a while now, weighing it against running ITBs instead. After reading through this thread I have decided to go and run carbs instead because it seems easier and not as costly as finding an ITB setup to work properly on my ABA. Which takes me to my questions lol. I have noticed mostly everyone here is running the counterflow 8v or the 16v....how difficult will doing this be on a crossflow 8v aba? the motor is currently being freshened up and I am going to get some head work and cam done as well before the motor goes back in. Will running R1 carbs still suffice? Will I be able to run my stock ignition system or should I switch it? This is my first time attempting this and will unfortunately be doing most of this on my own, unless Miami wants to come help haha........looking forward to all the help and getting this setup installed in my 92 monty :thumbup::beer:


R1 on an ABA/crosflow/x-flow/2.0slow whatever you want to call it is easy. Hardest thing in making or getting the intake manifold made. There is a parts list in here somewhere! As for ignition, Im running a MKI with MKI ignition. I have been thinking about a MII swap with a MKI ignition set up for ease. No idea if it would work, but I dont see why it wouldnt. Yank ALL the MKII ignition and replace with MKI ignition? Head work/cam will work fine with the R1 carbs, just play with the jets and needles. I went as simple as I could get, but was told be a few that without a knock box to run 93 gas and it will be fine. 

Im starting to think there needs to be a ABA/R1 carbs thread and a 16V/ R1 carbs thread!


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

Thanks Frozen! I was thinking of using your parts list you had posted a long time ago. Is that a pretty accurate list of what you ended up needing? So yank my ignition system and replace it with a mk1 ignition system? Does it matter what yr the r1 carbs came off of? I found some good deals on some 01 R1 carbs...will those work as well? Sorry for all the questions haha. just wanna make sure I buy all the right parts the first time around. Should I use the dizzy off my 1.8l insted of the one on the 2.0l?


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I need to look over the parts list, but other then random little things, it was complete. 98-01 carbs are what you want to get. My carbs have adjustable needles, not sure if that is year specific or not, but makes tuning simple.

As for the ignition system . . . If your feeling like a lab rat, go for it! MKII with ABA on R1 carbs running MKI ignition! I dont see why it wouldnt work? Run a MKI 1.8L distrbutor and ignition control module and it should work fine. Thats the set I have, why would it matter what body car its in?!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

FROZEN337 said:


> I need to look over the parts list, but other then random little things, it was complete. 98-01 carbs are what you want to get. My carbs have adjustable needles, not sure if that is year specific or not, but makes tuning simple.
> 
> As for the ignition system . . . If your feeling like a lab rat, go for it! MKII with ABA on R1 carbs running MKI ignition! I dont see why it wouldnt work? Run a MKI 1.8L distrbutor and ignition control module and it should work fine. Thats the set I have, why would it matter what body car its in?!


I think they might be year specific, my r1 carbs are from a 2001 and the needles only have one groove...

But then again... my carbs are the 5JJ model... the ones with a TPS. (heh, you know you need a cover sheet on your tps report! :laugh


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

thanks frozen. ima go with these 01 r1 carbs I saw on ebay then for fairly cheap. ill just buy the other parts you had on your list and go from there. With the ignition system, guess ill cross that bridge when I get there. I still have to remove the head of the ABA and have it cleaned, built and so on.....till then im just gonna source all the parts I am going to need for this. So stay tuned, more questions to come in the future haha:beer:


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Not sure on the needles. I have 2 sets of carbs, one set was netted with single groove the other set was factory jets and adjustable? I would hit the local dealer for adjustable if you don't get them on your carbs.

Both had TPS too.

The list I posted was what I used, some people used other pumps or FPR without issues. Bogg Bros uses the cheap pumps with no problems, but I wanted to be safe.


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

hey frozen so I was looking over your list and had some questions about some of the things. I am going to go with the 01 r1 carbs and a manifold from extrudabody. Concerning the carter fuel pump and fpr is there a certain kind I need to go with?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I'll be running '01 R1 carbs on a custom manifold on an ABA in my '82 Rabbit 'vert with MKII knock sensor ignition. Even the MSD 6AL box still needs a stock ignition module to convert the signal from the hall effect in the distributor. 

The Carter pump to use is the P4070, and really any fpr that will get you down around 3.5 psi.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Has anyone tried using the MSD 6AL-2 ignition? One of the inputs is for Hall Effect ... it could probably work without using an icm...


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I used the holley FPR because it has 3 ports, in and two outs. I stuck my gauge on one of the out ports for ease of mounting and adjusting the fuel pressure, I love the set up. Just don't go wicked cheap on FPR or pump and you will be fine.

I'll have to ask a buddy about the msd and no icm. I think I heard him say something like that when I was trying to get my jetta running.


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

Ok I have 1 final question about this guys... How are you all passing emissions? I live in AZ and they aren't that strict but how do they handle the visual and stuff when I open the hood and they are expecting EFI and I have a set of carbs in their face?

How do the carbs do against the infamous sniffer?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

formerfreeagent said:


> Ok I have 1 final question about this guys... How are you all passing emissions? I live in AZ and they aren't that strict but how do they handle the visual and stuff when I open the hood and they are expecting EFI and I have a set of carbs in their face?
> 
> How do the carbs do against the infamous sniffer?


Visual inspection in PA is really "at the discretion of the mechanic," so I'm not worried about that. Not sure if I'll even be putting more than 5,000 mi/year after the first inspection, in which case I'd be exempt.

As for the sniffer, as long as the tune is good, meaning fueling and ignition curve, it should pass a sniffer.


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

good question former. i was wondering the same thing. ill check the soutwest thread and see if someone knows an emissions place that is not as strict.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm in NY and the age of the car gets me off the hook. Monday I will be living in PA, so once my registration is up I'll have to deal with PA inspection/emissions. Does PA exempt cars at 20+ years old for emissions?


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

I think AZ has a similar rule but I think the cars have to be 25+ yrs. So I got 7 to go:laugh: 

I was thinking of having the head built because the inside is all gunked up but I am wondering if I should just get this head cleaned and do the carb setup and buy a spare head and built it. This whole ABA swap is beginning to rack up some serious $$$ and I need to figure out where to reduce some of the costs(dont have too but its easier to get the fiance"s approval hehe) I know with the carb set up I should just buy the right stuff now, so I am thinking to just buy a spare head down the road and build it up and when its done, just swap the carbs on that head and throw it on the block.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Get a cam and clean up the head you have now. My .02!


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

Ok biting the bullet time. Carbs are on order. Found aluminum I need, looking for somebody who can TIG. Bits and pieces to modify the throttle cable and such.

FPR is the only thing I am hung up on. 125.99 for the aeromotive unit or 40 for the Holley.

What are the differences, what makes more sense? I have looked and I don't see much.

Sidenote, for cost I will be keeping the CIS pump so... allow that to influence your responses.


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

what carbs did you order taylor? I have a buddy who just moved to El Mirage who can TIG weld, I can hit him up for you and see if he feels up to it. did u ever put those springs on? anyways, let me know how your carb setup comes along. I plan on ordering all my stuff within the next few weeks. Waiting on my money to arrive


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

formerfreeagent said:


> Ok biting the bullet time. Carbs are on order. Found aluminum I need, looking for somebody who can TIG. Bits and pieces to modify the throttle cable and such.
> 
> FPR is the only thing I am hung up on. 125.99 for the aeromotive unit or 40 for the Holley.
> 
> ...



Save yourself the hassle of setting up a fuel pressure regulator and using other pumps, and use the fuel pump from an R1... no fuel return lines to mess with, no fuel pressure regulator, no gauge to see how much pressure... just a filter, the fuel pump and... you are done!


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

Alright after about 10 minutes of sayin what a stupid ass Idea.... well I am about to order and R1 pump it is cheaper then the FPR alone.  How difficult is it to convert this? Has it been done? Is an FPR really not needed?


Dustin, Call your boy and get in touch with me. I need 2 of these things welded up.

Also I need the spare back that we put on your car for my boys ride. 

Tell your friend I got 10 bucks and a 6 pack in it if he can do it.

Springs are still waiting, car is under going a motor swap now. I ordered em from a guy here on the tex.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> I'm in NY and the age of the car gets me off the hook. Monday I will be living in PA, so once my registration is up I'll have to deal with PA inspection/emissions. Does PA exempt cars at 20+ years old for emissions?


What part of PA, Frozen? Wondering if you'll be anywhere near my neck of the woods. As far as emissions, anything newer than '75 mis subject to a visual emissions inspection and a gas cap pressure test. The visual inspection consists of a no touching look over of the engine bay and the mechanic's discretion of "Does it have (X-compenent)? Does it appear to be original? Does it appear to be working?" Exemptions are issued if the vehicle has a diesel engine, or it has travelled less than 5,000 miles since it's last inspection.

Former: 

The $40 Holley regulator is most likely not a bypass style regulator which will cause your pump to burn up in short order. The Aeromotive regulator is one of the few I found (and certainly the least expensive) that is a bypass style and goes to a low enough fuel pressure.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

My bike fuel pump. Any easier would be a crime...


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I will be in Chambersburg, kinda close, sorta! I'll hit you once we unpack and what not, swing over with the deadly Jetta of death!

I am 90% sure the holley FPR I have will do a return line, I'm not using it that way, but the instructions said something about it. My only concern with using the stock R1 pump, will it supply enough fuel for a 2.0 under wot? I thought about that pump, but it looks like all the different pumps have different hog rates, just a thought.

Put new plugs in tonight, Bosch plus, I think, was in there and I put platnium plus in, it sounds better! The butt dyno thinks it pulls a wee bit better! Just a FYI


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

formerfreeagent said:


> Alright after about 10 minutes of sayin what a stupid ass Idea.... well I am about to order and R1 pump it is cheaper then the FPR alone.  How difficult is it to convert this? Has it been done? Is an FPR really not needed?
> 
> 
> Dustin, Call your boy and get in touch with me. I need 2 of these things welded up.
> ...


Yea ill get a hold of him tomorrow and see what he says. Im sure hed be down to do it but I think he is in he process of moving to El Mirage right now. 

The spare or the spares? lol.....no problem. My buddy is borrowing them right now but its no issue for me to get them back. By when do u need them by?



Man my money needs to get here so I can start ordering all my parts and build my motor!!!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Well, the PDF's mention the use of the R1 fuel pump, but never mention if there is fuel ... starvation at WOT... anyways, the articles are so broad that perhaps being very specific to a 2L 16V is not covered, but at least my 1.8 8v engine does not have any problems, at least none that I can identify at WOT.

I know, different engines with different fuel/air needs, but I think that if you chose to use the R1 fuel pump or one from a similarly sized bike should suffice, if not, well... sell it, it should sell quickly enough.


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

I am purchasing the R1 pump. If I have any issues on my 2.0 I will let you guys now.

Not that I know any of the specific specs, but I can't imagine that my car at redline of 7500 rpms is going to be sucking down enough fuel to starve a pump designed to feed a motor at 12500 RPM.

I will keep you guys posted. However for half the price of the aeromotive it is worth a shot.

Dustin I just need the donut. Will even give you another 14 to swap it with.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> I will be in Chambersburg, kinda close, sorta! I'll hit you once we unpack and what not, swing over with the deadly Jetta of death!


Chambersburg isn't around the corner, but it's not too far. Only about 1.5 hr. There's a killer scene out here, man. Harrisburg/York/Lancaster is packed with VWs! 

Still need to get my manifold welded up, just been stupid busy. :banghead: I did refinish the headlight buckets Wednesday!


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I have been in WAY upstate NY for 5 years, hour 30 is about what I drove to hang in Syracuse! I'm on the east edge of Fayettevillie. Once we get unpacked and settled, I will roll your way.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Sounds great, man. :thumbup:

Minor update, pulled another knock box wiring diagram off here, and comparing, looks very similar to the one earlier in this thread, but a touch more detail. Both diagrams I have say to pull cranking power from terminal 50 on the starter for the brown/yellow wire. I dug through the MKII Bentley when labeling my harness and had this one marked as going to the fuel pump relay, though I didn't mark it as to which terminal. Wondering if this was the problem? We'll see what I get. Will be getting a phone number tonight from a buddy to get my manifold welded up. :thumbup:


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

For raw materials what are you guys using to make the Intake Manifolds.

Plate- for flange ( I was thinking H-2-inch L-12-inch W-1/4-1/2 inch)
Pipe- for runners ( I was thinking ID-1.5-2-inch schedule 40)

Guys that have done this... is that going to be sufficient?


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

^i would also like to know about raw manifold materials.

okay since this is a awsome write up with alot of info i have to ask, what kind of numbers are you guys putting down? im going bike carbs once i save up some money. also 16v or aba? i have a jh in my rab currently so i know a decent amount of info on 8v's. once its done id like to have a ported head with intake matched, good size cam and possibly balanced bottom end. would you guys reccomend full aba or the 16v? i wanna go 16v but everything is about twice as much parts wise and a hell of alot harder to find than aba's around here. 

edit: my goal is atleast 170whp thats the main reason im thinking 16v.


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

there was a guy with a built ABA bottom end with a built JH head and carbs that was pushing 170. But this thing was pretty build. Personally I dont know yet what numbers it will put down because I am in the process of rebuilding my ABA. I was going to have the head built up with cams etc but it is going to run 2 expensive for the time being :banghead: so I am just rebuilding all the OEM stuff on the ABA and having the block rehoned and then head and block hot tanked. I will buy another ABA head at one point and have it built so when its done I can just swap out heads and bolt the carbs to the new head...Im trying to keep this build under 1600 at the moment and with a built head etc I am looking way beyond 2400....so yea.....keep you guys posted as parts start rolling in.


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## Heidelberg2az (Aug 8, 2009)

formerfreeagent said:


> For raw materials what are you guys using to make the Intake Manifolds.
> 
> Plate- for flange ( I was thinking H-2-inch L-12-inch W-1/4-1/2 inch)
> Pipe- for runners ( I was thinking ID-1.5-2-inch schedule 40)
> ...


Hey taylor I am going to be having someone weld up my manifold as well. My buddy is in the process of moving but should be done by next week. I will see if he can weld up a manifold for you and me.....when do you need that donut? I have class tonite from 710 to 950. Should be home tomorrow around 845pm


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I started with a piece of aluminum about 15" L, 4" W, and 1/2" thick. 










Pretty sure it's 6061, we'll find out shortly how it welds to cast, or rather, how the cast runners weld to it! It's going to be a long process to keep warpage to a minimum.


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## DasTeknoViking (May 25, 2008)

If there is any interest I can sell a few flanges... PM for info. I got a buddy who works on CNC machines and made me a nice flange for my R1 carb setup for my PL. I think I can get him to do some ABA flanges also. 
Mike


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

DasTeknoViking said:


> If there is any interest I can sell a few flanges... PM for info. I got a buddy who works on CNC machines and made me a nice flange for my R1 carb setup for my PL. I think I can get him to do some ABA flanges also.
> Mike


Getting ready to do a 16V flange, as well. Will post pics when first one is done. The 16V flanges should be a little more resistant to warping because they won't have the spark plug cutouts like the ABA does.


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## MKIDUB (Oct 15, 2009)

*91 2.0 16v cis-e*

Miami Blue will your same set up work on a 91 2.0 16v cis-e? anyone else know?


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## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

ok so i just read this whole thread and am clear on setting everything up but ignition.. it seems to me the best way might be to use a msd-6al-2 wired directly to the hall effect distro? anybody done this? how well would it work as far as ignition timing? i guess i should probably call up msd.. will do that tomorrow. any input would be appreciated


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

handyalbert11 said:


> ok so i just read this whole thread and am clear on setting everything up but ignition.. it seems to me the best way might be to use a msd-6al-2 wired directly to the hall effect distro? anybody done this? how well would it work as far as ignition timing? i guess i should probably call up msd.. will do that tomorrow. any input would be appreciated


If you do confirm that the 6al-2 can be driven by the hall effect sensor, that would clear many doubts. Probably combining the use of that ignition and the use of a vacuum advance distributor might be an easy way to get it running...


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

As far as ignition systems go you can do lots of different stuff just really depends on what you want to spend money and time on :beer:


8v can use vac adv dist 
ABA would need the TT adapter ring to run a early vac adv dist
16v can use saab vac adv dist 



you can do stock ICM and knock-box :thumbup: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?424779

you can do megajolt 
http://www.autosportlabs.com/

you can do MSD and a timing control box (or whatever knockoff summit is selling)
http://www.msdignition.com/info.aspx?taxid=4&taxid2=94

you can do megasquirt just spark but ready for FI in case you ever go down this road
http://www.diyautotune.com/


I think this is ordered in price but maybe megasquirt is cheaper than the MSD and timing control unit

seems like the R1 carbs have a tps built in so my guess is megajolt/megasquirt has the most tuning potential.


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## Opption (Jul 29, 2008)

> Getting ready to do a 16V flange, as well. Will post pics when first one is done. The 16V flanges should be a little more resistant to warping because they won't have the spark plug cutouts like the ABA does.


i'm lookin foreword to seein this thing finished.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

cross posting this for everyone to see

press fitted dcoe flanges


dutch_diy said:


> Ok, tiny update here:
> 
> Found an example of someone that made flanges to press-fit onto the ITB's to make them suitable for ordinary DCOE manifolds, looks like a decent solution...
> 
> ...


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Im looking at doing this to my 77 scirocco thats an aba jh hybrid sitting around 11.5:1cr and going to a 288 or 306* cam for autocross ill be posting things once i get started. Anybody make a flange for the 1.8 counter flow head? Also what PSI are most of you guys at for your fpr settings?


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## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

just talked to msd, sounds like the 6al-2 should work, although they have a programmable version that would do the ignition timing also while using the stock 16v distributor. I may go with that and will post here when i get started.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

handyalbert11 said:


> just talked to msd, sounds like the 6al-2 should work, although they have a programmable version that would do the ignition timing also while using the stock 16v distributor. I may go with that and will post here when i get started.


Argh! That's the only thing about the programmable version... I wouldn't know how to configure such piece of hardware!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Argh! That's the only thing about the programmable version... I wouldn't know how to configure such piece of hardware!


MSD's tech department is usually pretty good and I'm sure could help with base settings. :thumbup:

Sorry, Matt (opption), I've been crazy busy and working a lot of hours these last few weeks, but you finally have PM back!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

id like more info on the msd too if you go through with it, ill be looking to upgrade at some point.

here is how engine bay looks currently 









and some one pm'd me wanting to see my throttle cable set up. so ill just post it in here.
This bent piece is off of a motorcycle. it is located where the cable comes out of the throttle housing on the handle bars.








The next piece is just a cable adjuster.








here is the whole length of it.









I did not make my throttle cable my uncle did(he builds flat track bikes) so i have do not know how this was made exactly. it doesnt look to difficult. but im not sure how much he cut off the stock cable and what not. if you dont feel like doing that, best bet is take it to your local bike shop.


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

In for the I need ignition help bump.

I have everything ready, just waiting on parts and it dawned on me that if everything shows up tomorrow as it should then I will not have any idea oh how I will light this candle. I know the links above were posted, but I am looking for input from guys running this setup. I don't have any money right now, so using stock ignition is a must.

How much of a pain is it/how many/what issues are you guys having?


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

How would r1 carbs be on a counterflow jh head? i plan on getting a 16v down the road but want the awsomeness of carbs now.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

bmxguy said:


> How would r1 carbs be on a counterflow jh head? i plan on getting a 16v down the road but want the awsomeness of carbs now.


 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5007129-Bike-carbs


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Ok so its looking like im going to be jumping into my build a little sooner then expected. I just sold my intake mani a tb for my CIS and now dont have anything to get air into my car.......Hey it made it so the wife will let me do the swap so dont judge me......Anyways so wht im getting from all of your guys remarks and build is looking like go with the carter pump, aeromotive fp bypass, run at about 4 psi and looking at 2.0mm main jets. Am i wrong on any of this so far? Please correct me if I am and stear me in the right direction.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Svedka said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5007129-Bike-carbs


Hey ill be adding updates to this page as I do my build!


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Ok so its looking like im going to be jumping into my build a little sooner then expected. I just sold my intake mani a tb for my CIS and now dont have anything to get air into my car.......Hey it made it so the wife will let me do the swap so dont judge me......Anyways so wht im getting from all of your guys remarks and build is looking like go with the carter pump, aeromotive fp bypass, run at about 4 psi and looking at 2.0mm main jets. Am i wrong on any of this so far? Please correct me if I am and stear me in the right direction.


3 psi, is what I run. I have been told and read that is the most the carbs should get. 
Not sure, haven't looked at the aeromotive the, but holley works and is $40.
FP gauge and a wideband.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Is the holley a bypass regulator? Whats the pn on it? I know i need the wideband but i might just tune it rich to get it running then get that down the road.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

3 psi wasnt enough for my carbs. if i have it rev'd to 3 grand for about a half mile it starts running out of fuel in the bowls. i have it adjusted to 5.5 psi now and it only runs out of fuel if im running WOT for a extended period of time.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

86Franklin said:


> 3 psi wasnt enough for my carbs. if i have it rev'd to 3 grand for about a half mile it starts running out of fuel in the bowls. i have it adjusted to 5.5 psi now and it only runs out of fuel if im running WOT for a extended period of time.


What pump/fpr are you running? I'm set at 3psi and it runs just a touch rich at WOT. 

Holley pn is 12-804 I think, autozone, jegs, summit sell them.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Good to know thanks!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

What year of the R1 carbs has the adjustable needles?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

just a cheap pump, but it is pumping at 6 psi. and fpr is cheap also i was thinking of picking up a holley fpr to see if it made a difference. the thing is my uncle said it would probably be taking right around 5 psi and it is...idk ha


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

86Franklin said:


> just a cheap pump, but it is pumping at 6 psi. and fpr is cheap also i was thinking of picking up a holley fpr to see if it made a difference. the thing is my uncle said it would probably be taking right around 5 psi and it is...idk ha


 I had a cheap pump and FPR to start, fuel issues and I bought the Carter. Then I had pressure issues and bought the holey, no more issues. I don't know how much the GPH rate affects fueling, but may be part of the leaning out at the top end?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

hmm maybe it does have to do with gph. i looked at the current specs on my pump and its only 35 compared to the 72 of the carter 4070. i'm thinking about ordering the carter pump from summit, only because i know it'll be here in two days (maybe one). i leave for school in PA next thursday and want my car running as smoothly and reliably as possible. and all my problems are usually fuel problems.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

86Franklin said:


> hmm maybe it does have to do with gph. i looked at the current specs on my pump and its only 35 compared to the 72 of the carter 4070. i'm thinking about ordering the carter pump from summit, only because i know it'll be here in two days (maybe one). i leave for school in PA next thursday and want my car running as smoothly and reliably as possible. and all my problems are usually fuel problems.


 May be your issue. Try the pump, if not, at least you will have a proven pump. If not, holley FPR. Where in PA?


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

just got 2 racks of 2000 r1 carbs for $120 shipped on ebay :thumbup: 

i plan on switching from cis to the bike carbs, who all is using the r1 fuel pump? does this need to be located in tank or can it be mounted in stock mk1 location? looks to be an in tank to me. any other cheap alternatives? other than that already have some fuel line, an fittings, and a holley FPR with a gauge that i picked up from a friend for $50  

all else i can really think of needing is silicone connectors, some way to run the brake booster, choke and throttle cable. i know a couple 'ol boys who are into racing bikes and hot rodding old nortons so they def wanna help with this project. :thumbup:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Just ordered my rack of 42mm mikuni carbs and ill be getting the fuel pump and the rest of the parts on tuesday....So hopefully in my 2 days off next thursday and friday i can get this beast running and back on the road.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

FROZEN337 said:


> May be your issue. Try the pump, if not, at least you will have a proven pump. If not, holley FPR. Where in PA?


 Thats what i plan on doing. I'll be living in indiana, pa but going to school in blairsville at wyotech.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

bmxguy said:


> just got 2 racks of 2000 r1 carbs for $120 shipped on ebay :thumbup:
> 
> i plan on switching from cis to the bike carbs, who all is using the r1 fuel pump? does this need to be located in tank or can it be mounted in stock mk1 location? looks to be an in tank to me. any other cheap alternatives? other than that already have some fuel line, an fittings, and a holley FPR with a gauge that i picked up from a friend for $50
> 
> all else i can really think of needing is silicone connectors, some way to run the brake booster, choke and throttle cable. i know a couple 'ol boys who are into racing bikes and hot rodding old nortons so they def wanna help with this project. :thumbup:


 anyone know about vacum for boosters? would it be enough to fab up some sort of nipple off a injector cup to power it, or would it need to be ran off of all the injector cups? (jh 8v) 

edit: itd also be pretty cool if someone could measure the backside of the carbs for me. i wanna see if i can whip up a easy intake or if i have to go all custom since i dont wanna have to buy silicone reducers.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

bmxguy said:


> anyone know about vacum for boosters? would it be enough to fab up some sort of nipple off a injector cup to power it, or would it need to be ran off of all the injector cups? (jh 8v)


 you can tap the runners on the intake and put brass fittings in. i tapped one at first but i felt some pulsating in low rpms. so i did each runner and it works perfectly. just make sure you keep the one way valve between the booster and intake. ill post pics if you need.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

86Franklin said:


> you can tap the runners on the intake and put brass fittings in. i tapped one at first but i felt some pulsating in low rpms. so i did each runner and it works perfectly. just make sure you keep the one way valve between the booster and intake. ill post pics if you need.


 makes sense but i would like to see somne pics of your setup. would running it off the injector cups even work? im hoping that for my jh i can just cut down a stock mk1 manifold and have it work, the way im thinking i dont think i could tap the manifold.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I tig'd a port off the second runner, first won't clear the distributor, I don't have any vacuum issues off just one runner. Mine is on an ABA, should be the same on a 16V.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I run mine off a single port with no issues but im on ITB's counterflowed, chrisbmx i think was his ign had vac ran off the injector ports but if i remember he switched to a vacume block. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4274236-8v-itb-teaser


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

good info in that thread, thanks for posting it. :thumbup: hopefully this will go pretty smoothly, seems pretty straight forward. sure ill have more questions when i actualy start building it. opcorn:


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

since alot of people are running carter pumps thats what im leaning towards. i was wondering if anybody has used a P60430? seem like a better choice for a rabbit than a 4070. i would purchase the 60430 but the 30gph has me questioning it since the 4070 is practically double that. any input?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Hey bmxguy check this out. This one flowed about the same GPH as the one your looking at. This was a page ago so ill bring it back up to possibly answer your question.


86Franklin said:


> hmm maybe it does have to do with gph. i looked at the current specs on my pump and its only 35 compared to the 72 of the carter 4070.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I'm not an expert, but the first cheap pump I had was only 30-32gph. I looked at what a lot of the big weber set ups had for pumps and went with the 4070. The p60430 is for a pic 34 or something tiny. R1 is 4 big carbs making almost twice the power, Polly needs more fuel.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Hey bmxguy check this out. This one flowed about the same GPH as the one your looking at. This was a page ago so ill bring it back up to possibly answer your question.


 :banghead: i need to stopp reading this stuff when i need sleep. i completely forgot about reading that. thanks. :thumbup:


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## wantacaddybad (Jun 14, 2006)

I have my set up available in the for sale thread. Moving onward with a pair of 45 dcoe's.


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

Can I get some pictures of what you guys got going on? Pics for vacuum for the brakes, picks for knock box location and dizzy setup. Just inspiration and hmm this looks right pics would be great. 

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Just got my carbs today and ill be ordering the rest of the parts tomorrow. I'll be posting pics all along of my progress on a counter-flow set up.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

heres my vacuum line setup for my brake booster. 

cylinders 1&2 








cylinders 3&4 (4 comes off the side because it was the first runner i tapped but felt pulsing. so i did the rest on top.) 








From 4 to the BB valve and so on. 









and heres my new fuel pump  Finally....


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Here's a few more pics of what I have done for my setup, so far. 

Ignition control and knock box on inside of firewall, passenger side: 










Custom fabbed low-mount Alt bracket: 










So you in PA, now, Frozen? It's gonna be a party!! :laugh:


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

emailed the guy i purchased my carbs from. should expect to see them this friday :banghead: sucks because i have everything else needed minus silicone to connect the carbs to my manifold.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Ordered the rest of my parts today minus the silicone couplers. Ill be posting pics soon!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Ill get the rest of my part tomorrow and should be able to get everything minus the manifold done this weekend!!


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

OK, Ordered my carbs from a guy on here 3 weeks later they aren't here... So I turn to you guys.

*I NEED A SET OF R1 CARBS! I am willing to pay for the cost of freight to over night as I MUST have my car done by Monday.*


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

go my carbs today. going on as soon as my silicone tubing gets here :thumbup:


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## markaviles (Jan 30, 2008)

*zx9r carbs*

Im thinking on going this route also and I found some zx9r carbs in very good condition. will these work also eventhough I have read alot of treads with r1 carbs?


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

i have a few quick questions.

does anyone have that pic saved of the rack of carbs that shows what ports need plugging and what goes where? 

has anyone found out if anything besides the main jets need drilling? 

the angle of the carbs does not really matter, correct?

how are you guys mounting your throttle cable to the gas pedal?

what is the piece that runs across the rack of r1 carbs on the back with the spring? choke?

how is everyone hooking up thier chokes?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Look on page 2 for the pic.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> i have a few quick questions.
> 
> does anyone have that pic saved of the rack of carbs that shows what ports need plugging and what goes where?
> 
> ...



I posted the pic in this thread, somewhere!
Drill or buy main jets. Be sure you have adjustable needles.
Carbs work fine at the angle they will be mounted in the car.
I used my factory throttle cable and put a barrle end on it for the throttle wheel on the carbs.
Choke.
I used a VW choke cable on my set up.

R1 party in PA!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

FROZEN337 said:


> I posted the pic in this thread, somewhere!


Yeah its on page 2.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

what are you guys doing about the return on the carbs? running a line alll the way back to the fuel tank? or just plugging them?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

If you use a bike fuel pump, forget the return line.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

fuel pump is a carter 4070


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

heres the most up to date video of my car running. it was taken with my phone so dont expect spectacular quality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiOx-OA2BGE


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Got all of the CIS crap out of the bay minus the fuel lines to and from the bay. Im thinking of pulling my vacum from my former injector ports.
Before....








After...


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> what are you guys doing about the return on the carbs? running a line alll the way back to the fuel tank? or just plugging them?


I have the return capped off under the hood. You can run the holley fpr with a return, but I have my gauge in that spot.


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

is anyone able to get one of their flanges remade and sell to me. The shops around here are wanting to charge 140 for just the flange cutout. Its apparently to thick at 1/2" to be plasma cut and that was the price of getting it water cut. ill find out later today on the price of laser but damn thats high.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

FROZEN337 said:


> I have the return capped off under the hood. You can run the holley fpr with a return, but I have my gauge in that spot.


i figurd itd be fine to just cap it. thanks for the response. :thumbup:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

priddin888 said:


> LOL laser cut is 245


honestly my manifold cost me $400 if its was in aluminum it would have been around $600-700


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Well seriously if i could get access to a shop id make the manis out of aluminum for $400.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

have you seen my manifold? its not just smashed pipe to fit the elongated holes. each runner is 4 separate pieces. i mean 400 dollars for pipe is a reasonable price. in fact bogg brothers is 250 or something like that. but you also have to ship it to the states.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah i know wich intake mani is your and i could make one out of aluminum that nice given being in a nice shop. Ive been a welder for the last 10 years. When i get the time and find a shop to make my final manifold ill post pics. The only thing that suck is i have a counter flow so mine will still suck when it comes to making the flange.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Anybody oversize their pilot jets? If so what size did you go to with them?


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

if anyone is interested im meeting with a local guy who does machining and i am going to have the flange and tubes made all out of aluminum tomorrow. If anyone is interested i can get some bulk pricing and ship them out on here.


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## neverthesamecar (Dec 2, 2006)

I'm officially on the bandwagon...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

priddin888 said:


> is anyone able to get one of their flanges remade and sell to me. The shops around here are wanting to charge 140 for just the flange cutout. Its apparently to thick at 1/2" to be plasma cut and that was the price of getting it water cut. ill find out later today on the price of laser but damn thats high.


I've been trying to get some more made, and finally picked up a piece of material big enough to get several flanges out of. I've just been having a problem finding the time to get the material to my machinist to get some made. No laser or plasma, they are computer CNC machined. I've talked to a couple of people about getting them made, but I've just been stupid busy between my regular job and trying to start a business. They should only run around $65 shipped. I'll see when I can get the pattern for a 16V done and get the material down to him and just get a few knocked out. I just got back from H2Oi early this morning after helping a buddy sort some car issues on the way home, and I still have 41 hrs of work on the schedule this week. :banghead:


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> I've been trying to get some more made, and finally picked up a piece of material big enough to get several flanges out of. I've just been having a problem finding the time to get the material to my machinist to get some made. No laser or plasma, they are computer CNC machined. I've talked to a couple of people about getting them made, but I've just been stupid busy between my regular job and trying to start a business. They should only run around $65 shipped. I'll see when I can get the pattern for a 16V done and get the material down to him and just get a few knocked out. I just got back from H2Oi early this morning after helping a buddy sort some car issues on the way home, and I still have 41 hrs of work on the schedule this week. :banghead:


Well tomorrow i meet with him so i will see how much it costs to get mine done and come with a price on here but otherwise that sounds awesome for 65 shipped. My guy will also use my mani though and be able to build it complete with the tubes as well but again ill see how much the total cost is and then let everyone know. If you get with yours soon let me know as i might take you up on your offer. Its just really expensive for the first one since he has to make the pattern in the machine.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I've talked to my guy about some crazy billet stuff, but we haven't gotten much further than that. I'm thinking at least something with flanges for silicone couplers machined into them. Especially for the 16Vs vs the ABAs, due the even spacing of the 16V ports. Not going to be cheap, but would be a trick piece. Would have to calculate out ideal runner length for the taper from oval to round.


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> I've talked to my guy about some crazy billet stuff, but we haven't gotten much further than that. I'm thinking at least something with flanges for silicone couplers machined into them. Especially for the 16Vs vs the ABAs, due the even spacing of the 16V ports. Not going to be cheap, but would be a trick piece. Would have to calculate out ideal runner length for the taper from oval to round.


ya i have no idea about runner length, thinking about making roughly 5" long to keep the powerband in more of the midrange so a daily driver will feel the power more.


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

got a price from another machine shop out here. For me to get only one made and cut with materials out of 1/2 steel it is going to cost 110. So far the best price i have seen. Meeting with another machine shop in the next few hours and i will update on that price as well.


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

priddin888 said:


> got a price from another machine shop out here. For me to get only one made and cut with materials out of 1/2 steel it is going to cost 110. So far the best price i have seen. Meeting with another machine shop in the next few hours and i will update on that price as well.


the other shop is 100 per mani made out of 1/2" aluminum


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

neverthesamecar said:


> I'm officially on the bandwagon...


:laugh: You have been since I got my set, you just finally decided to keep the Bunny, again. :thumbup:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So with wiring the fuel pump is everybody just switching the pump straight out on the same wiring or are you doing new relays and what not? Ive got everything plumbed in now and just have to finish my manifold. And hook up the wiring.:thumbup:


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

i would imagine so, shouldnt need any new relays or anything. Switching the fuel pump on my rx7 didnt require anything new. Although i did end up running it to a switch so i didnt have to rely on relays.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> So with wiring the fuel pump is everybody just switching the pump straight out on the same wiring or are you doing new relays and what not? Ive got everything plumbed in now and just have to finish my manifold. And hook up the wiring.:thumbup:


I wired a new relay for piece of mind. Grabbed the wire to the fuel pump in the kick panel and power for the relay off the battery.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

i just wanted to add that kawasaki zx11 and zzr1200 both use 40mm keihin cv carbs...same size as r1

cbr900, gsxr1100 use 38mm carbs...good for mild/race 8v.

im still researching. maybe we can make a list of bikes and carb sizes so we can find a better variety on where we source carbs.:thumbup:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

hyperformancevw said:


> i just wanted to add that kawasaki zx11 and zzr1200 both use 40mm keihin cv carbs...same size as r1
> 
> cbr900, gsxr1100 use 38mm carbs...good for mild/race 8v.
> 
> im still researching. maybe we can make a list of bikes and carb sizes so we can find a better variety on where we source carbs.:thumbup:


my carbs are zx11 carbs. i seem to be the only one with them.  only problem im having with them is number 3 carb seems to over flow...? and at 4psi the bowls dont stay full if i take the engine to the redline a couple of times. 5.5psi is where i found the best fueling for wot but it likes dumping gas on the ground at idle. only thing i can think of is the bowls need adjusted. but i had my uncle go through and clean them and adjust all the bowls. for a week they didnt overflow at 5.5psi, then it was back at it.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> my carbs are zx11 carbs. i seem to be the only one with them.  only problem im having with them is number 3 carb seems to over flow...? and at 4psi the bowls dont stay full if i take the engine to the redline a couple of times. 5.5psi is where i found the best fueling for wot but it likes dumping gas on the ground at idle. only thing i can think of is the bowls need adjusted. but i had my uncle go through and clean them and adjust all the bowls. for a week they didnt overflow at 5.5psi, then it was back at it.


Have you checked the floats themselves? Sounds like you've got a cracked/split float that's filling up with fuel and not floating. :thumbup:


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

i would try to port the fuel inlets and drill the needle seat out a little for more flow @ 4.5 psi. remember these things were designed to be gravity fed so any pressure is more than it was made for to begin with


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

floats are fine. and that sounds like a decent idea, but dont have any access to a drill at this time. These carbs can handle 7 psi no problem. Also these carbs and r1 carbs weren't designed to be gravity fed, both bikes had fuel pumps on the bike. Even a 95 zx6 has a fuel pump. gravity fed and 13k rpm = fuel starvation.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

so is everyone just drilling out thier main jets? seems like there would be a problem with ovaling out the hole and not being acurate in general. has anyone purchased just main jets from anywhere offline?


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

some bikes have one and some dont. i know for a fact a 92 katana doesnt have one. and yes, you can use drill bits for jetting. they actually have drill bit sets that are numbered in jet sizes and not SAE sizes specifically for this purpose. ask a local bike or moped/scooter shop, they should have a set you could use or have them drill for you. fwiw my carbs didnt like over 5psi or it would overpower the needle and flood out like crazy


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

92 katanas gas tank sits over the carbs. most sport bikes the gas tanks sits between the riders seat and carbs. guess ill just have to turn up the pressure when i want to have fun...


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah if you have R1 carbs call up your local yamaha dealer and they can order in the jet. This is what i did. They were only $13 for the set. Im also ordering pilot jets that are 2 sizes over stock so i dont have a problem with running lean or having a tip in problem with the throttle.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Fuel pump is in and wired up new pilot and main jets installed all that left is the intake!! Should be up and running sometime in the next week!!!


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

I have been getting a lot of PMs about parts lists, so here it is again.

(This is what I used on my car, MKI w/ABA)
1999-2001 Yamaha R1 carbs
custom made intake manifold
2 40mm 3" long silocone couplers cut in half
Carter P4070 fuel pump
Holley 12-804 fuel pressure regutlator
3/4" fule line (10' or so!)
Marshall fuel pressure gauge
Factory MKI throttle cable modded with "HELP 03336 Cable Ends" to fit the carbs throttle wheel
Factory MKI choke from a diesel with the same cable end
TT block off plate kit (ABA only)
TT distributor bushing (ABA only)
TT D/P with short shift
innovate LM-1 wideband 
272 cam
adjustable cam gear
ghetto Cherry Bomb side exit
slim line ebay fan
tons of clamps
a coke and a smile.

Feel free to post or PM with questions. My motor is an ABA, so I cant help with 16V ignition stuff, but I'll try!
Peace, Love and Soul.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I figured i would throw my hat into the ring since it seems like some of you are having trouble with your setups.

1989 1.8 16v
high compression, cams, header, exhaust
CBR900rr carbs, jets drilled out to something like .178"

I am running the stock 1989 ignition. I had to advance the distributor all the way to get proper throttle response and power. If your car feels like it is putting out an extreme amount of air out of the exhaust at idle, and your headers get red hot at idle, chances are you aren't running enough ignition advance. ask me how i know.....:what:

For the fueling, I am only running the stock in tank fuel pump. It supplies more than enough fuel to keep my car running rich at 9000 rpms. the regulator is a MR. Gasket one. its adjustable without any tools. 

Carb angle is important. try to find a picture of your bike carbs installed on the bike and try to match that angle. 

If you dig up one of the old CBR900rr carb threads on here, someone in there was selling steel intake manifold flanges for 16v engines for 60 shipped. they need a little midification to work, butthats a good deal for a flange. also check out Weirtech on here or http://www.weirtech.ca/ , he makes flanges for cheap.

I run one vacuum fitting. it works for brakes and such, but i am adding fittings to cyl 1-3 and adding a vacuum gauge . 

An aba alternator setup is an easy, cheap way to drop your alternator down, and improve the reliability/function of your accessories. for 16v's, crank pulley needs to be shaved down 6mm due to the wider crank gear.

For the ABA stuff, you need to run an ABF waterneck or one of the early slim aba tensioner springs. 

If you run the abf neck, you can cut your upper hose after the 90* bend at the alternator, and then flip the larger portion and it will line right up. you can see the two clamps where i cut it. 









bike carbs take about half the throttle pull of a stock tb to go from idle to wide open throttle. I just took a bolt and stuck it in the stock throttle stop on the floor of the car, limiting pedal travel. 


im sure im forgetting stuff. I dailyed this thing in the winter until the snow got too deep. it runs sweet 


feel free to follow my car over here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5041909-build-thread-16v-cbr900-carbs-high-compression


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Ran into a minor hangup today. I broke one of the retainers for the needle while adjusting them. the new part is an all new slider and diaphragm so thats delaying me a couple of days as well as costing 50 for a new slider.  But on a lighter note got the coil re-located and have a rough idea where everythings going to sit.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

PMs replied to. Finally getting ready to get some flanges made. As if there wasn't enough **** keeping me from there and getting my manifold welded, etc, now my woman's dad passed away, so that's eaten up my days off for this week. :banghead: I have enough material to make 6 flanges, and I'm waiting until I confirm from people on what they're after to see what I have made up. Right now it looks like 2 or 3 ABA flanges, prob a 16V flange or two, and a either a VR or 1.8T flange for short runner manifolds. Price of an ABA or 16V flange should be $65 shipped.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

my next project is going to be a vr6 on cbr carbs. itll take 2 sets of carbs but it should be pretty easy to make it work. I think it would sound amazing.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> my next project is going to be a vr6 on cbr carbs. itll take 2 sets of carbs but it should be pretty easy to make it work. I think it would sound amazing.


 Can get you a VR flange in this next round I'll be getting from the machine shop. Prob be a little more than the 4 cyl ones, but not too much. :thumbup:


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

are they going to be steel or metal?


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

priddin888 said:


> are they going to be steel or metal?


 :laugh:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

priddin888 said:


> are they going to be steel or metal?


  The latter, of the Aluminum variety. :screwy:


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## priddin888 (Dec 19, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> The latter, of the Aluminum variety. :screwy:


 Well let me know when your going to be doing that. Because if its pretty soon i will for sure buy the 16v one if not i have the machine shop still drawing the plans for mine


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Ran into a minor hangup today. I broke one of the retainers for the needle while adjusting them. the new part is an all new slider and diaphragm so thats delaying me a couple of days as well as costing 50 for a new slider.  But on a lighter note got the coil re-located and have a rough idea where everythings going to sit.


have you got this running yet? any manifold pics?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

i want updates!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I should get my part for the carbs tomorrow and calling a lead on a welder and shop i can use as well.


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## EnglerMKIII (Jun 25, 2007)

*little help*

hey guys i have everything hooked up and was planning on using the in tank fuel pump when to turn the key to check the pressure runnig to my fuel pump regulator and the pump didnt run. I checked the fuse and it was good. If anyone can help i would appreciate it. Thanks


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Cehck the relay, check power at the the pump, and check the ignition switch.

Should be dropping my manifold off at the welder's on Wednesday.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

EnglerMKIII said:


> hey guys i have everything hooked up and was planning on using the in tank fuel pump when to turn the key to check the pressure runnig to my fuel pump regulator and the pump didnt run. I checked the fuse and it was good. If anyone can help i would appreciate it. Thanks


Depending on what car you are referring to removing the ecu will make the fuel pump not switch on try jumping the pump or changing the relay to a #18


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

come on guys you need to catch up


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

come to indiana, pa and well see whos catching up ..jk


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

86Franklin said:


> come to indiana, pa and well see whos catching up ..jk


last thing i read was that your car was dumping fuel out the carbs. mine was doing this when i had my first manifold that mounted the carb trumpets parallel to the ground. the carb angle was too low.



so i cut down the manifold and mounted the carbs at an angle so that the gasket between the carbs and the float bowls was parallel to the ground, putting the trumpets at a near 30* upward angle. this resolved all of my fuel overflowing issues

Im not sure if this is the year bike your carbs came off of, but they are mounted at a somewhat upward angle










however it doesn't seem to be as much as the cbr900 carb angle, which are at a near 60* angle










oh, and Ive had mine running since last summer


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

oh yeah update on mine(forgot i only pm'd frozen). no more fuel coming out of the carbs  holley reg. set at 2 psi = plently of fuel, even at WOT for a while.  pretty much the regulator i had was a pos. the first pic looks almost exactly like my carbs and mine are pretty damn close to that angle. maybe 5* off but that doesnt make that big of a difference. mine are side draft while i guess r1's and and those cbr carbs are down draft. still makes more sense that they are side drafts with the bowls on a extreme angle for the newer sportbike setup, with ram-air and the fuel cell mounted between the driver and carbs for lower center of gravity. which is why r1's and like bikes had fuel pumps. where as that zephyr the gas tank still sits above the carbs for gravity feed. i'd still like to see how my car keeps up with yours just for s**** and giggles.


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## EnglerMKIII (Jun 25, 2007)

Ok guys need a little more help again. For some reason i am not gtting any spark now. Anyone got any ideas. The cars a 88 16v rocco


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

i could never get my stock in tank fuel pump to make any "pressure" unless i held my finger over the end of the gas line, then it would build 2 psi. with the carbs hooked up, the fuel pressure gauge would never get off 0, but the car has plenty of fuel even at 8k. i have read that numerous people switch their CBR's to gravity fed and slightly bigger jetting when the fuel pumps go bad, so i suppose the CBR's dont need much fuel pressure at all.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

my in tank pump was bad...but i just turned my fpr down a tad more today to see what the lowest psi i can go is. also i dont see how that would work with the bottom of the tank sitting lower than the carbs... a lot lower... like 5 inches or so.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

EnglerMKIII said:


> Ok guys need a little more help again. For some reason i am not gtting any spark now. Anyone got any ideas. The cars a 88 16v rocco


what ignition setup are you running? 
what have you checked out so far?


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## EnglerMKIII (Jun 25, 2007)

running the stock 16v hat was on the 88 rocco i checked plugs for spark, nothing checked the cable running to the distributor, nothing there either


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

did the 18 relay fuel pump turns on but seems to stay on . carbs are overflowing carbs were very clean. . floats move freely and whatnot . car runs but is overflowing . running r1 pump r1 carbs . 1.7 on the jets .


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmpmk3T said:


> did the 18 relay fuel pump turns on but seems to stay on . carbs are overflowing carbs were very clean. . floats move freely and whatnot . car runs but is overflowing . running r1 pump r1 carbs . 1.7 on the jets .


what is your carb angle looking like?

this should be a 1999 r1 engine









a car on r1 carbs








http://www.turbosport.co.uk/showthread.php?103402-X-flow-on-Yamaha-R1-carbs


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

The bowls sit flat the carbs are at an angle just like that . I'm wondering if the floats just aren't set right .


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

fuel pressure? what regulator you using?


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

Not sure on pressure I'm using the pump from the bike and that shouldn't need a regulator as it's the pump from the bike it's meant to run the carbs. Atleast that's what I've been lead to understand . Also the r1 pump is supposed to cut out when the bowls fill .


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

bmpmk3T said:


> Not sure on pressure I'm using the pump from the bike and that shouldn't need a regulator as it's the pump from the bike it's meant to run the carbs. Atleast that's what I've been lead to understand . Also the r1 pump is supposed to cut out when the bowls fill .


Probably you need to put sealant on the gaskets that seal the bowls... that happened to me when I rebuilt the carbs... or probably the needle valve is worn and may need replacement...


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

They have o ring seals on the bowls and they were fine in the bike so I'm thinking they should be good still


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

bmpmk3T said:


> They have o ring seals on the bowls and they were fine in the bike so I'm thinking they should be good still


Well, same thing I thought about mine, until the pump pressurized and bam! Loads of gas pouring from the bowls. Give it a shot, see how it works out.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Found a solution for cheap cone air filters. I know their the priced in canadian but they end up being $3 cheaper oddly enough.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hond...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa599caa4


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

I don't see how sealing of the bowls will stop fuel from coming out of he ts on the top it's not the bowl that's leaking .


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## Jeff92 (Aug 5, 2009)

*CAD file*

Is there anyone who has a CAD/CAM of a 8v counterflow intake flange?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Found a solution for cheap cone air filters. I know their the priced in canadian but they end up being $3 cheaper oddly enough.
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hond...rcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aa599caa4



I have these currently at my house
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220413912198&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

theyre not bad, but i had to modify my carbs to get them to fit because the inside of the filter necks down a bit where the rubber seals to the filter part.


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

Got it up and running gas not leaking anymore and then I got some sort of issue it hit he fan and coated my engine bay real nice. Seemed to pull hard though. Gotta get air fuel gauge on it .


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Realized shortly before going to meet with the welder that my carb angle was not so good and neither was my bolt hole access. :banghead: Glad I realized it before welding, though! Need to trim the runners to a bit of an gle, then things should be good on dist clearance and Alt clearance with a proper float bowl angle and room for the hardware.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So the vaccums done up the coils relocated and wired in now i just need to finish my damned intake mani!!!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

why did you use a vacuum T with a vacuum cap for Cyl #1 instead of just using a longer piece of hose?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm going to be getting a 90* elbow here in the near future. Plus I didn't want it to kink the hose with it pulling off of the old injector ports.


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

All is well now runs good uped he mains a bit think they could still be bigger . Only issue now is no tach tried to go from negative coil to green white wire going to cluster like aba swap no luck it worked before I went msd . Any suggestions


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

I run my tact out of the 6AL box itself works for me. So what year R1 is best to get these from? 

I have had my 45 webers for 2 seasons now. Never really been able to get to behave well for very long sorta miss my dells for driving around and not having to touch them very often. Think I'm going to give these one more shot i have the manifold and couplers from the first attempt.


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## bmpmk3T (Jan 2, 2007)

did you just tap of one of the wires or do you have to buy some tach adapter from msd or something . as for the r1 carbs i got mine off an 01 . as for best year not really sure on that one .


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Hopefully making my manifold....FINALLY!!!!!


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

well I just bought the 01 r1 carbs, looking for a saab 8v vacuum dizzy, and the mani I will need. So can I jump on the 65 shipped for a 16v train, PLEASE. I have mucho, I will need couplers. Just trying to get ducks in a row


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

chipperdavis2305 said:


> well I just bought the 01 r1 carbs, looking for a saab 8v vacuum dizzy, and the mani I will need. So can I jump on the 65 shipped for a 16v train, PLEASE. I have mucho, I will need couplers. Just trying to get ducks in a row


 I just took my carbs and found some radiator hose that would fit snug and cut that into couplers.


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

yeayeayea said:


> I just took my carbs and found some radiator hose that would fit snug and cut that into couplers.


 Well of course you did, because that is just to logical now isnt it,,:laugh: 

PS: thanks for that...good info, now I was gonna go get Gates Fuel hose with the I.D. of say 40mm, then some worm clamps. But I like your idea cheaper. 

Anyone got a mani I can BUY before I have to make one??????


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

i found that long term the gas would deteriorate radiator hose. i ended up using fuel tank filler hose like you said. i have a saab dist too.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So I got my intake fit up now I need to get it welded and face the runners up. Before you go off on how it looks realize its not finished and I only had a portaban, file and a small spool gun. 

















Oh and i got my silicone today as well!!! Should get my airfilters tomorrow.


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

bmpmk3T said:


> did you just tap of one of the wires or do you have to buy some tach adapter from msd or something . as for the r1 carbs i got mine off an 01 . as for best year not really sure on that one .


 There is a output on the end of the 6AL box. A flat pin conector i think.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

chipperdavis2305 said:


> well I just bought the 01 r1 carbs, looking for a saab 8v vacuum dizzy, and the mani I will need. So can I jump on the 65 shipped for a 16v train, PLEASE. I have mucho, I will need couplers. Just trying to get ducks in a row


 Shoot me a pm about a flange. Still haven't made it to see the man, been working too much. 

Same goes for anyone else who has been interested in flanges, please send me a PM again, so I can get a solid count. Tell what engine and how many. :thumbup: 

**NOTE* 

Keep in mind, people, these are just 1/2" thick flanges to bolt to the cylinder head. These are not complete, ready to stick your carbs on manifolds! You will have to come up with your own runners and couplers.*


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I used 1-1/2" ID silicone couplers 3" long and cut them in half. :thumbup:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Getting everything welded up and finished on monday or tuesday next week!!!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

so i took my carbs off of my car because it started missing again while idling. took them all apart and made sure every thing was clean and the floats were set. i went and put them back on to see if carb #3 was still over flowing and... it was. took them back off all pissed and what have you. took the float off of the 3rd carb and shook it and it made a rattling noise. there is nothing visual wrong with it. it looks perfect, no cracks or anything. i set it in a bowl of water and one side sunk.... i went down the road to the nearest bike shop. 35 bucks for 1 float....1. its going to be here wednesday. i need to drive home 8hrs away thursday. awesome! its a good week


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I dynoed mine, not happy with the results. the car is a blast to drive, but i was hoping to crack 140 atleast. ended up with 138.1 whp, 120 wtq. will post up the dyno sheet when i get my printer hooked up, my normal laptop took a dump on me so im on an old one


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I dynoed mine, not happy with the results. the car is a blast to drive, but i was hoping to crack 140 atleast. ended up with 138.1 whp, 120 wtq. will post up the dyno sheet when i get my printer hooked up, my normal laptop took a dump on me so im on an old one


Any wideband readings with that? How's your timing with the stock dizzy advanced? Might be time for an ignition upgrade.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So i may have found some inspiration on a future upgrade to do before i go turbo diesel in a couple of years!! These are R1 carbs running boost!!


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

carbs arrived. 

Now on to the mani.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Any wideband readings with that? How's your timing with the stock dizzy advanced? Might be time for an ignition upgrade.


unfortunately no wideband. i hope to do som e things to the car and have it retested with wideband and see what we get. stock ignition system, advanced as far as it will go. likely going to look into a jacobs or msd unit that i can advance the ignition from inside the car.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

k&n filter and a stock vr6 muffler.









now










needs more air flow up top


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Throttle switches. mine are not hooked up. are they tied into the ignition system or the ecu? im hoping that they are tied into the ignition and that they will give me some ignition advance at WOT but if its tied into the ecu im guessing the signal is pretty much lost.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Throttle switches. mine are not hooked up. are they tied into the ignition system or the ecu? im hoping that they are tied into the ignition and that they will give me some ignition advance at WOT but if its tied into the ecu im guessing the signal is pretty much lost.


From everything I've read in regards to the throttle switches, the full throttle switch was only for full enrichment with the CIS and doesn't have an effect on the timing curve. This is what I've heard, I have never tested anything myself to confirm or deny this.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Just got off the phone with the machinist. Dropping material and gaskets off tonight. He said he should be able to get to them this weekend. :thumbup: Right now I'll be getting (3) 16V flanges and (1) ABA flange. :beer:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Just dropped the manifold off with the welder he only charging me 65 and should have it back by sunday! If only i had a tig welder thats alot of beer i could have bought!!!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Material dropped off with the machinist Thursday night. Flanges will be done early this coming week and ready to ship! :thumbup:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Its welded up now i just need to face up the runners and hook everything up!!:thumbup:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Excellent job! 

It's great to see this thread has come a LONG way. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I finally took my car out for the weekend, went to a small town 70km away from Mexico City. I was doing 5k rpm's in 5th gear... and no flat spots, plenty of power to overtake. I don't actually know how fast I was going because the car no longer has a speed meter, but the only car that overtook me was a VW Beetle Turbo...

Other news: I fabricated a couple of air filters made from foam as a base for the filter elements, which consist of aluminum wire mesh, sandwiched with layers of thin foam. All cost a mere ... $15 bucks! And they seem to work well, at least they didn't melt. Sprayed them with a bit of K&N oil.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

pnavarro said:


> Other news: I fabricated a couple of air filters made from foam as a base for the filter elements, which consist of aluminum wire mesh, sandwiched with layers of thin foam. All cost a mere ... $15 bucks! And they seem to work well, at least they didn't melt. Sprayed them with a bit of K&N oil.




be careful. I did just that, with aluminum screen, and the engine ate the #3 filter. ate a hole right in the middle of the screen.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Decided to plot both of my dyno graps on one graph to show the difference between stock and now, and while the top end looks pretty nice, i think its time for bigger cams 










also, whats the reason for you counterflow guys shifting your carb runners towards the passenger side, is it a clearance issue with the heater core lines?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> be careful. I did just that, with aluminum screen, and the engine ate the #3 filter. ate a hole right in the middle of the screen.


Now big was the screen that you cut? And how did you glue it to the foam? I used contact glue/cement to put it all together and until now, I haven't observed any destruction of the filters, but I'll definitely keep an eye on them.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I cut the stock manifold and separated the outside runners to line up to the carbs better. But when i go to make my next fully custom manifold ill run the runners straight from the flange.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

pnavarro said:


> Now big was the screen that you cut? And how did you glue it to the foam? I used contact glue/cement to put it all together and until now, I haven't observed any destruction of the filters, but I'll definitely keep an eye on them.


i didn't use glue, just hose clamped the screen/foam filter to the carbs. its slightly possible a carb backfire took it out but im not sure.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

My foam filters...










































Took them off today to see if they had been destroyed, but nope, structurally they look very sound.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

pnavarro said:


> My foam filters...
> 
> Took them off today to see if they had been destroyed, but nope, structurally they look very sound.


those are some gnarly looking filters. way to think outside the box though. is the blue material foam also?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> those are some gnarly looking filters. way to think outside the box though. is the blue material foam also?


Blue material is a sponge (foam made) to wash cars, just the right size to cover the velocity stacks. The gray material is very thin foam, and the aluminum mesh is used to line windows - mosquito deterrent. So... a trip to Walmart, a fabric store and The Home Depot... a swiss army knife, a marker, a screwdriver and some contact cement... and VOILA! Filters! :laugh:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

pnavarro said:


> Blue material is a sponge (foam made) to wash cars, just the right size to cover the velocity stacks. The gray material is very thin foam, and the aluminum mesh is used to line windows - mosquito deterrent. So... a trip to Walmart, a fabric store and The Home Depot... a swiss army knife, a marker, a screwdriver and some contact cement... and VOILA! Filters! :laugh:


post a pic of your pointer I want one so bad:thumbup:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Svedka said:


> post a pic of your pointer I want one so bad:thumbup:


Svedka - here's a vid of how the car is at the moment, turn down the volume to avoid listening to me speaking spanish LOL. btw, I had visited Gig Harbor in my younger years, beautiful place, I hope I can go back someday to the Pacific Northwest.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I had visited Gig Harbor in my younger years, beautiful place, I hope I can go back someday to the Pacific Northwest.


Bring me a pointer truck:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


Awesome vid :thumbup:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Whoa... these velocity stacks with filters look SEXY.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Got it running after dark last night and discovered im leaking fuel but couldnt figure out where it was coming from. Going to figure that out today and we should be golden!!

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

^looking good^ 

leaking fuel. is it around the carbs or what?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah im pretty sure it was coming from the bowls so i tried something as a temporary fix if that is the problem and ill order new gaskets for them today if it was them.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Fixed the leak!! Tomorrow ill get the choke and throttle cable hooked up and get video of her maiden voyage!!:laugh:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

:thumbup: good to hear. mines parked for the winter  i miss it already.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

will a stock mk3 8v alt setup clear some carbs? going full aba in my mk1 jetta and need to know if i should grab a motor with all the stock accesories.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> will a stock mk3 8v alt setup clear some carbs? going full aba in my mk1 jetta and need to know if i should grab a motor with all the stock accesories.


thats what i run :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Depends on what carbs you have. With a set of R1 carbs with the angled float bowls you'll probably clear, but with a set of flat carbs you'll prob have issues.


For those waiting for flanges, I talked to the machinist today. He got a little busy last week, but should have them done in the next day or two. :thumbup:


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

yeayeayea said:


> thats what i run :thumbup:


sweet. :thumbup:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So i have fuel coming out of the bowl vents now...Any idea on how to fix this?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

make sure none of the floats are cracked by putting them in a cup of water. if all of them float, make sure they are adjusted right.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

This will sound dumb but how to i adjust the floats?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

honestly it would be super hard to explain on here. the only thing i could do right now is tell you to look up a website that shows how too. if you cant find anything let me know cause ill get one for you. if you dont mind waiting i could make a video this weekend when i go home.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Well heres a video of whats going on for all to see.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

thats pretty similar to what mine was doing. did you check to see if the float on #1 carb floats in a glass of water? if it does, then best bet is that its adjusted wrong or the plunger to shut off the gas is worn out.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Ill check that when i have a babysitter tomorrow. I noticed fuel is also coming out of the air meter holes under the main intake will solving the floats and fuel problem get rid of that as well?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Just talked to a buddy of mine thats a yamaha tech and he said to adjust the floats that that probably my problem.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Ill check that when i have a babysitter tomorrow. I noticed fuel is also coming out of the air meter holes under the main intake will solving the floats and fuel problem get rid of that as well?


 yes. and id check to see if it has a crack first. its not very often they arent adjusted right unless somebody messed with them and has it all out of wack. but seeing as it is just one i think the float has a crack. just my opinion. plus since you have to drain the fuel and pull the carbs off to adjust them any way you might as well pull off the float and see if it floats, so you dont have to pull the carbs off again if adjusting it doesnt work.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Whoa, is it just me or is gasoline escaping not only from carb #1 but from #2 and #3 too? And also.. just before the engine is shut off, both air vents are spilling fuel... did you take them ALL apart and clean them thoroughly? My carbs leaked fuel from the air correctors too, but it all went away on its own... Strip them to pieces again, probably a float bowls, the float pins are worn? Too much fuel pressure?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah i plan on stripping it all down again tomorrow and cleaning it up again and inspecting it all. I know its not to much pressure as im only running 1.5psi till i figure this out.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

check ypur carb angle, it should try to match the carb angle on the bike,

adjust your fuel pressure all the way down. it will likely not run at the lowest setting. slowly increase it and continue to try to start it. once it starts, let it run and if it is still leaking, you will know it is not a fuel pressure problem, instead a problem internal to the carb itself.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

oops guess it is #2 not 1. also the carb angle looks fine and if its doing that at only 1.5 psi then there is something wrong with the carb. also check the spark plug on cycle #2. if the float is bad or adjusted wrong then spark plug will show that its running rich because its allowing fuel to drain into that cylinder. idk how many times you've ran this but id check the oil to see if it smells like gas. if so, change it after you figure out the problem.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Solved the problem the float was horribly off and got that fixed as well as went back to the stock pilots now shes running and not spewing fuel everywhere!! Everybody counterflows are a go!!!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

just for the record I never got my fuel pressure gauge to read above 0 psi fuel pressure, and I have more than enough fuel for 160 crank. so even 2 psi might be too much. regardless glad to hear that was not the problem and you got it all fixed up. have you driven it yet?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Solved the problem the float was horribly off and got that fixed as well as went back to the stock pilots now shes running and not spewing fuel everywhere!! Everybody counterflows are a go!!!


Congratulations! This calls for a new video!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Ill get one tomorrow. Went out and my pulls to 75 are alot more fun. Huge gain in the midrange.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

yeayeayea said:


> just for the record I never got my fuel pressure gauge to read above 0 psi fuel pressure, and I have more than enough fuel for 160 crank. so even 2 psi might be too much. regardless glad to hear that was not the problem and you got it all fixed up. have you driven it yet?


thats what ive been trying to say all along. i see people trying to run 7psi on them and overflowing everywhere. the floats are similar to that in your lawnmower, not a holley 750 double pumper:laugh:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

when my float was cracked my fuel pressure gauge didn't register any psi. now with the new float its reads 5.5, even though the holley fpr is only suppose to adjust 1-4psi. even with it at 5.5 psi there is no overflowing at all, not even a hint. yeayea i have a question for you, what fuel pump are you running?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

the only pump i run is the stock fuel pump in the fuel tank. i just put a fuel filter in place of the high pressure cis pump and away i went.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

gotcha. my transfer pump was dead so that wasnt an option. any idea on flow rate of the transfer pump?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

all i know is that it was atomizing fuel out the carbs at 7500 rpm, and the car makes 138whp which is about 160 crank, so it flows enough for probably atleast 170 crank.


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## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

Well I got my R1 carbs the other week and got it running tonight, my setup is a little different than most, I have a 1.8 16v still running stock ignition right now, i am using the stock manifold and i cut it on the upper part of the manifold right where the 4 tubes end so my carbs are towards the back up above the exhaust, probably wont keep it this way but thought it might be cool to try out. The fuel pressure regulator i got didnt end up working so i plumbed it up with a "T" fitting from the tank with one outlet going to the carbs and the other to the return, seems to be working pretty good running both stock fuel pumps that way although i did have one small fuel leak but i believe its from the float bowl gasket having a small tear not the fuel pressure. Will get some pictures up tomorrow probably.


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

"yeayeayea 
all i know is that it was atomizing fuel out the carbs at 7500 rpm, and the car makes 138whp which is about 160 crank, so it flows enough for probably atleast 170 crank." 

I think it's called fuel stand off. i ask a local shop that i get parts from. my Weber's do it and my dells did it just not that much lol. I think it has to do with engine harmonics but i may be wrong.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

handyalbert11 said:


> Well I got my R1 carbs the other week and got it running tonight, my setup is a little different than most, I have a 1.8 16v still running stock ignition right now, i am using the stock manifold and i cut it on the upper part of the manifold right where the 4 tubes end so my carbs are towards the back up above the exhaust, probably wont keep it this way but thought it might be cool to try out. The fuel pressure regulator i got didnt end up working so i plumbed it up with a "T" fitting from the tank with one outlet going to the carbs and the other to the return, seems to be working pretty good running both stock fuel pumps that way although i did have one small fuel leak but i believe its from the float bowl gasket having a small tear not the fuel pressure. Will get some pictures up tomorrow probably.



you are running both stock pumps!? yikes!


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## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

with the line straight to the return it seems to be working alright, we'll see how it goes today though


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Heres a pull as promissed. I slipped launching and im at 60 at the top of 2nd.:laugh:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

90 psi cis pump is a bad idea. why not just run the transfer pump? and ^nice video^


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Nice vid!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

am i missing something? car in video sounds obviously turbocharged.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Nope no boost yet. I might boost the carbs but if i dont i might boost the motor and carbs in their next platform....


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Is their anybody else out there doing this as a winter project? Get to posting if so!!opcorn:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Is their anybody else out there doing this as a winter project? Get to posting if so!!opcorn:


so whats with the blow off valve sound in between every shift?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I can only say that would be the intake noise. Ive had several people tell me it sounds turbo'd but watch the video of my floats overfilling you can see theres no turbo in it. Ill make another video walking around my car with the hood up and rev it up if you like. I swear theres not a turbo in it.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

i saw your other videos, you had a killer amount of fuel dumping out over top of your headers 

my car makes no sounds like that though so thats why i assumed it was a turbo.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah i just dont want people getting the wrong idea about my car thinking its turbo'd...Could give it a complex:laugh:


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## markaviles (Jan 30, 2008)

*block off plate*



YJSAABMAN said:


> Here's a few more pics of what I have done for my setup, so far.
> 
> Ignition control and knock box on inside of firewall, passenger side:
> 
> ...



Sir
where did u get your block off plate for the engine block breather (next to the oil cooler).


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I have one of those said block off plates and mine came from techtonics tuning.
http://www.techtonicstuning.com/mai...roduct_info&cPath=2_11_5_248&products_id=1258


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

markaviles said:


> Sir
> where did u get your block off plate for the engine block breather (next to the oil cooler).


ABA & 9a style 

Block off plates can be made or bought from BBM, TT, NLS, and a few others I myself like the NLS one and you can also use the factory breather by plugging the hole or using a BFI breather bung:thumbup:

http://www.nothingleavesstock.com/page13/page13.html
http://store.blackforestindustries.com/mk3bfi20caca.html


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## nwvwgli (Aug 18, 2007)

screw that silicone hose crap i found the best thing ever fuel filler neck hose way stiffer and clamps better on the carbs and every auto parts store carrys it:beer:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

nwvwgli said:


> screw that silicone hose crap :beer:


:laugh:

That is the biggest downfall of adapting bike carbs but if you have a DCOE manifold why don't you get or make adapters with no couplers? 



















Still need pics of your engine bay:wave:


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## hastethemoment (Nov 3, 2010)

can this be done on a 8v without hitting the rain tray?


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

hastethemoment said:


> can this be done on a 8v without hitting the rain tray?


Sure


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## hastethemoment (Nov 3, 2010)

thanks! anybody down to make me an intake mani for 8v....


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## nwvwgli (Aug 18, 2007)

it comes really close with a dcoe manifold



> Originally Posted by hastethemoment
> can this be done on a 8v without hitting the rain tray?





> Still need pics of your engine bay


i gotta get some soon its in my buddys garage and i usually go there after work ill get some soon though:banghead:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

hastethemoment said:


> thanks! anybody down to make me an intake mani for 8v....


Id be up for selling mine here in a month or two when i go to make a new mani for my car. But then again youd have to lose part of your rain tray to fit it.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Thanks for hooking up our friend stationed in Germany with the block off plate info, guys. :thumbup: I was in NC at my sisters and while I didn't touch a computer or the message boards, I did spend about 6 hours in her garage fighting her MK3 Jetta, though. Stupid control arm bolt!

As for doing this over the winter, this is the second winter I've been trying to get mine done. Grrr!!  Need to sell the Jeep!! I haven't done anything but push my car in and out of my garage for the last few months. :banghead:


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## jessjessvw (Sep 8, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> come to indiana, pa and well see whos catching up ..jk


i'm in blairsville right now, wyotech :wave:


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

Does anybody did with a CBR 1000 card on 16V.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

cbr 1000 didnt have carbs it was itbs/injection. if you want to use honda the cbr900rr is what you are looking for


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## Mk1 Fish (May 5, 2009)

Svedka said:


> Sure


are the cars in the videos yours? if so nice to see some local shiz like that. is your 8vtcoupe a mk1 or mk2? so is that mk3 in the vid not a crossflow head?:screwy:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Mk1 Fish said:


> are the cars in the videos yours? if so nice to see some local shiz like that. is your 8vtcoupe a mk1 or mk2? so is that mk3 in the vid not a crossflow head?:screwy:


They are not mine and the Canadian and Europe model mk3 came with a counterflow head and direct port injection.:screwy:

Just some inspiration for carbed 8v:beer::beer:


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

Won bid on R1 Carbs on Ebay. Project will start soon. 

1987 Scirocco 16V


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

86Franklin said:


> idk how many times you've ran this but id check the oil to see if it smells like gas. if so, change it after you figure out the problem.


 Stupid question but would the fuel in the oil act anything like coolent?


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

no it will just make the oil thin. the oil will have the consistency of something like parts washer solvent and not protect all of your moving parts.


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

*Fuel Pump question for bike carb*

Can I use the fuel pump inside the fuel tank, how much pressure does it have. 

The bentley doesn't say how much pressure coming out of the pump inside the tank. 

I have a 87 Scirocco 16V


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

eme411 said:


> Can I use the fuel pump inside the fuel tank, how much pressure does it have.
> 
> The bentley doesn't say how much pressure coming out of the pump inside the tank.
> 
> I have a 87 Scirocco 16V


 i do, my build is linked in my sig


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

yeayeayea said:


> i do, my build is linked in my sig


 Ok good, I need a FPR and a gauge. 

Did you use the same relay or have you rewire the fuel pump


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

stock relay :thumbup: I just eliminated the high pressure pump assembly under the car and put a carb fuel filter in its place.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Is their anybody else out there doing this as a winter project? Get to posting if so!!opcorn:


I am! nothing to report other than i have the tired 8v out of my 83 GTI and the 1.8l 16v ready to go in. i had a transmission donated to the cause and after i scraped the crud off it i realized that it's the FN Long ratio 5 speed. Yay! Hope to be ready for the road by March/April time.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

well they salted the roads today, so the gti is officially done being driven this season. now the teardown can begin. Over the winter I will be:

-Replacing the low temp thermostat with a stock temp so that my oil temps will be around 200's instead of the current 180's. I am hoping this will help keep condensation in the crankcase to a minimum. by raising the oil temp it should make it easier for the engine to steam off any moisture in the block. Also higher engine temps will help combat the cooling effect of the carbs, aiding in atomization of fuel by raising cylinder head temps
-the thermostat oring leaks, so it needs to be replaced regardless.
-waterpump replacement
-likely do the timing belt/tensioner
-new battery
-new flexpipe for the header, along with sandblasting of the header.
-Valvecover gasket replacement
-new plugs
-some sort of distributor modification to allow more advance.
-finally purchase 4x100-5x112 wheel adapters, or convert to 5x100 and use current adapters
-replacing PS lines
-reinstalling AC

Fabrication/custom work will include:
-Possible powdercoat of header assembly
-fabrication/polishing or powdercoating of new catch can assembly
-addition of breather fittings to valve cover
-adding vacuum fittings to all runners/powdercoat
-possible rebuild of carbs including sandblasting/powdercoating of bodys.


and the list goes on from there. needless to say I have my work cut out for me.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I became unemployed as of last Saturday, I think the world is against me on ever getting my car put together! :banghead:


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

YJSAABMAN said:


> I became unemployed as of last Saturday, I think the world is against me on ever getting my car put together! :banghead:


:thumbdown: its been hell for me to just find a job let alone keeping it, hope you find employment soon. :thumbup:

not going to run the bike carbs on my 8v anymore... i got a 16v caddy to put them on instead. 

what are you guys doing with all the electrical stuff with the 16v's mainly the plugs for the fuel dist. and the tube/can looking thing on the intake?


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

*Vacuum*

I got the R1 carbs for my 16V, inlet manifold should be ready in January. Were should I get the vacuum for the brake booster from, is the carb vacuum enough.


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

I know I am late to the game here, and I have been reading to the point I have gone cross-eyed. I have a set of '95 zx600 carbs and fuel pump that I am going to put on a basically stock '97 2.slow 8v. I have done so much reading that I am actually starting to get confused on what I need to do about the ignition. Do I need to keep the ECU, or can I ditch it and use just the ICU? Is there a distributor out there that I can swap in that uses vacuum advance or at least something other than the hall sensor? TIA, I am a noob to modifying vw's but not to cars or bikes and was also an aircraft electrician for 7 years in the AF, so no need to talk to me like I am stupid but I do need help becoming more familiar with this car so I can have more fun with it.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

bmxguy said:


> :thumbdown: its been hell for me to just find a job let alone keeping it, hope you find employment soon. :thumbup:
> 
> not going to run the bike carbs on my 8v anymore... i got a 16v caddy to put them on instead.
> 
> what are you guys doing with all the electrical stuff with the 16v's mainly the plugs for the fuel dist. and the tube/can looking thing on the intake?


Thanks, man. I've got a few things to help suppliment my unemployment for the next few months until everything is set to go into business for myself. :thumbup: Starting a business won't leave a lot of time to play with my toys, though. 

As for the electrical stuff, stupid MKIIs with their integrated harnesses! If you're hardcore, you weed it out. If you're not, you tuck it out of the way. :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

blupuick said:


> I know I am late to the game here, and I have been reading to the point I have gone cross-eyed. I have a set of '95 zx600 carbs and fuel pump that I am going to put on a basically stock '97 2.slow 8v. I have done so much reading that I am actually starting to get confused on what I need to do about the ignition. Do I need to keep the ECU, or can I ditch it and use just the ICU? Is there a distributor out there that I can swap in that uses vacuum advance or at least something other than the hall sensor? TIA, I am a noob to modifying vw's but not to cars or bikes and was also an aircraft electrician for 7 years in the AF, so no need to talk to me like I am stupid but I do need help becoming more familiar with this car so I can have more fun with it.


What's the bore on the carbs you have? Most of us are using carbs from 900 or 1000cc bikes to be sure we're getting enough airflow. Hoping you don't have any kind of emissions testing where you are, either. (Indiana?) These will not be acceptable in the eyes of the emissions nazis. The MKIII engine management is all integrated into one unit, as opposed to the older cars most of us are using, meaning the ICU is part of the ECU. You're better off ditching all the factory management and using a stand alone ignition system if you're going to do this.


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

YJSAABMAN said:


> What's the bore on the carbs you have? Most of us are using carbs from 900 or 1000cc bikes to be sure we're getting enough airflow. Hoping you don't have any kind of emissions testing where you are, either. (Indiana?) These will not be acceptable in the eyes of the emissions nazis. The MKIII engine management is all integrated into one unit, as opposed to the older cars most of us are using, meaning the ICU is part of the ECU. You're better off ditching all the factory management and using a stand alone ignition system if you're going to do this.


Thanks, that is the info I needed on the ignition. Here in Indy they don't even have a visual vehicle inspection, so emissions is not a problem. As for the carb sizes I measured them and the combined volume is larger than the stock TB. I am putting these on an 8v head with only a cat delete and larger exhaust with these so I am hoping I can get away with the smaller carbs. So I guess I should spring for the MSD 6AL-2 and a new coil. 

BTW I just did a better measurement with a caliper and each carb is 36mm.


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

*Synchronize r1 carb*

Does any one know how to synchronize R1 car. I canot find any vacuum were I should connect the sync tool.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

blupuick said:


> Thanks, that is the info I needed on the ignition. Here in Indy they don't even have a visual vehicle inspection, so emissions is not a problem. As for the carb sizes I measured them and the combined volume is larger than the stock TB. I am putting these on an 8v head with only a cat delete and larger exhaust with these so I am hoping I can get away with the smaller carbs. So I guess I should spring for the MSD 6AL-2 and a new coil.
> 
> BTW I just did a better measurement with a caliper and each carb is 36mm.


The cbr 900 carbs are 38mm. I run them on my 1.8 16v with decent success. That being said, Im not sure I would go through the hassle of trying to fit 36mm carbs to a 2.0. 



eme411 said:


> Does any one know how to synchronize R1 car. I canot find any vacuum were I should connect the sync tool.


probably will have to add individual vacuum sources to each intake runner.


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

yeayeayea said:


> The cbr 900 carbs are 38mm. I run them on my 1.8 16v with decent success. That being said, Im not sure I would go through the hassle of trying to fit 36mm carbs to a 2.0.


I am not trying to question your knowledge here, but am trying to understand why my carbs will be a problem. I calculated the stock TB's volume and came up with 226.19 cc's (and that is being generous) and then figured the combined carbs as 325.72 cc's. I used the same "depth" for both calculations to even the playing field even though they are very close in length anyway. Am I going to have a problem with jet sizing to provide enough fuel? I know from working on larger V8 and V6 motors that if you go too large on your intake you will lose low end torque, so this is what I am trying to counter with the smaller carbs. I can sit here and rationalize this to myself all day but do need another opinion with experience. Thanks.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

blupuick said:


> I am not trying to question your knowledge here, but am trying to understand why my carbs will be a problem. I calculated the stock TB's volume and came up with 226.19 cc's (and that is being generous) and then figured the combined carbs as 325.72 cc's. I used the same "depth" for both calculations to even the playing field even though they are very close in length anyway. Am I going to have a problem with jet sizing to provide enough fuel? I know from working on larger V8 and V6 motors that if you go too large on your intake you will lose low end torque, so this is what I am trying to counter with the smaller carbs. I can sit here and rationalize this to myself all day but do need another opinion with experience. Thanks.


Well trust me when I say that I am no expert. However I merely suggested it because the stock 16v runners are 40mm for the 1.8s and 42mm for the 2.0's, and 50mm for the european 1.8 16v KR engines. I was just thinking that it is best to shoot for a carb diameter as close to your runner diameter as possible, so that the carb does not become the bottleneck. 

It all depends on what you are building the engine for. All my power comes on at 5000 rpms and pulls till 7500. While thats not most vw owners cup of tea, I absolutely love it, and for a non winter fun car, I cant imagine anyone driving it and not loving it. So for me to lose my low end torque (my peak torque is almost at 6000 rpms!) was not a concern, and I wouldnt downsize my carbs to gain it back. Power up top is more fun than power down bottom, IMHO. And yes I dailyed it carburated (even in the winter last year until the 2ft snow storms hit)


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

yeayeayea said:


> Well trust me when I say that I am no expert. However I merely suggested it because the stock 16v runners are 40mm for the 1.8s and 42mm for the 2.0's, and 50mm for the european 1.8 16v KR engines. I was just thinking that it is best to shoot for a carb diameter as close to your runner diameter as possible, so that the carb does not become the bottleneck.
> 
> It all depends on what you are building the engine for. All my power comes on at 5000 rpms and pulls till 7500. While thats not most vw owners cup of tea, I absolutely love it, and for a non winter fun car, I cant imagine anyone driving it and not loving it. So for me to lose my low end torque (my peak torque is almost at 6000 rpms!) was not a concern, and I wouldnt downsize my carbs to gain it back. Power up top is more fun than power down bottom, IMHO. And yes I dailyed it carburated (even in the winter last year until the 2ft snow storms hit)


Thank you for your input. I am planning on driving this daily even in the winter months and am going to stick with the 8v head in this configuration. For daily use and I am not looking for much more power with this engine than stock ( I have another that I will build once done with this set-up) I would like to keep my low-end and drivability. I have owned big turbo cars with lots of lag and they suck to drive in traffic.

OK, for anyone that wants this info, the intake port size on a stock MK3 2.0L 8v head is 33mm. So in theory any carb 33mm and bigger should work for these engines.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

blupuick said:


> OK, for anyone that wants this info, the intake port size on a stock MK3 2.0L 8v head is 33mm. So in theory any carb 33mm and bigger should work for these engines.


Makes me glad I decided to ditch the 32mm carbs I was originally going to use!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

blupuick said:


> OK, for anyone that wants this info, the intake port size on a stock MK3 2.0L 8v head is 33mm. So in theory any carb 33mm and bigger should work for these engines.


is that the port size in the head or the port size of the intake manifold runner?

Remember that even at WOT the throttle plate/bar do take up a small amount of the cross sectional area of the throttle body. regardless, if theyre only 33mm on an 8v then your 36mm carbs should work out pretty decently.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

i have used 36mm on a mild 8v and it works great.


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

yeayeayea said:


> is that the port size in the head or the port size of the intake manifold runner?
> 
> Remember that even at WOT the throttle plate/bar do take up a small amount of the cross sectional area of the throttle body. regardless, if theyre only 33mm on an 8v then your 36mm carbs should work out pretty decently.


I measured 33mm on the head itself.


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

hyperformancevw said:


> i have used 36mm on a mild 8v and it works great.


Cool, thanks for the info. Just picked up my materials to start building the manifold.


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

Where can I find some main jets for R1 carbs. I look at dyno jets and they don't ship to Canada


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

eme411 said:


> Where can I find some main jets for R1 carbs. I look at dyno jets and they don't ship to Canada


jet drill bits are your friend:thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

For those that asked, and just to whore something, since I haven't been able to get anything done on my car:


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

hyperformancevw said:


> jet drill bits are your friend:thumbup:


I am not familiar with jet drill bits, what are they, just normal drill bits and you enlarge the main jests


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

so how do you guys think cutting the stock lower intake manifold (16v) would work with the carbs? thinking of cutting the manifold right before the brace going across all the runners. held the carbs up and it seems like at that point if i were to mount the carbs up the bowls will be flat.


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## handyalbert11 (Nov 22, 2007)

i started to do that, ended up using the upper manifold piece though. It looked like it would probably work though


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> For those that asked, and just to whore something, since I haven't been able to get anything done on my car:


Its insane to see the 8v ports next to the 16v ports. quite a difference indeed.



eme411 said:


> I am not familiar with jet drill bits, what are they, just normal drill bits and you enlarge the main jests


Yep, indexed by small increments so you can slowly increase your main jet size bit by bit.
A regular drill index is fine, as long as it is in small enough increments. 



bmxguy said:


> so how do you guys think cutting the stock lower intake manifold (16v) would work with the carbs? thinking of cutting the manifold right before the brace going across all the runners. held the carbs up and it seems like at that point if i were to mount the carbs up the bowls will be flat.


Is your carb spacing even close to the stock runner spacing?


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

yeayeayea said:


> Is your carb spacing even close to the stock runner spacing?


yes. the stock ports and runners are equally spaced out unlike 8v's. it seems if i were to do this with my r1 carbs on the cut manifold i could just put some couplers on and if they are a little off of eachothers measurements the couples should still be able to connect them.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> yes. the stock ports and runners are equally spaced out unlike 8v's. it seems if i were to do this with my r1 carbs on the cut manifold i could just put some couplers on and if they are a little off of eachothers measurements the couples should still be able to connect them.


I have a 16v, so I am aware that the intake runner spacing is equal across all 4 cylinders. What I meant was is the carb spacing equal to the 16v spacing? Is the carb spacing between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4 all the same? On my cbr carbs I believe the spacing between 2 and 3 was different than the spacing between 1 and 2, 3 and 4. 

I had a manifold where the #1 and #4 runners were not positioned right for the carb spacing. its true that the couplers can adapt for this, and I was able to get all four cylinders hooked up. however it was far from ideal and the sharp transitions in the couplers did bad things to my A/F ratios.


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

eme411 said:


> I am not familiar with jet drill bits, what are they, just normal drill bits and you enlarge the main jests


it is a drill bit set that is numbered in jet size, rather than SAE or metric increments


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

yeayeayea said:


> I have a 16v, so I am aware that the intake runner spacing is equal across all 4 cylinders. What I meant was is the carb spacing equal to the 16v spacing? Is the carb spacing between 1 and 2, 2 and 3, 3 and 4 all the same? On my cbr carbs I believe the spacing between 2 and 3 was different than the spacing between 1 and 2, 3 and 4.
> 
> I had a manifold where the #1 and #4 runners were not positioned right for the carb spacing. its true that the couplers can adapt for this, and I was able to get all four cylinders hooked up. however it was far from ideal and the sharp transitions in the couplers did bad things to my A/F ratios.


im running r1 carbs and they are spaced evenly. i held them up to the intake manifold and they look to be spaced the same as eachother


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

you shouldnt need to have a o2 sensor hooked up after all the cis eletrical stuff is puled right? planning on doing this within the next week or so since my caddy has hot start issues


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

bmxguy said:


> you shouldnt need to have a o2 sensor hooked up after all the cis eletrical stuff is puled right? planning on doing this within the next week or so since my caddy has hot start issues


Correct. Only O2 I'll be running is for my AEM wideband. :thumbup:


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

very good to know, they are evenly spaced ok. makes my welder asking questions happy.


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

did you account for carb angle? Or did you mount them flat? Kinda important.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

chipperdavis2305 said:


> did you account for carb angle? Or did you mount them flat? Kinda important.


You NEED to mount them at the same angle they are mounted at when installed on the bike they came from. Incorrect carb angle causes all sorts of problems and matching the oem angle is the easiest way to avoid this.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Keep in mind that the bore of a carb has almost nothing to do with it's 'usefulness'. I run 32mm chokes on my sidedrafts, and made 105whp/119tq (1.8). If I ran 30mm chokes, my throttle response got even better, but my power dropped off at top end. Right now, the 32s allow me to rev to 6500 on my little 1.8, with slight upper end loss. Throwing a set of 38s on an 8v is pretty silly IMO, unless you plan to rev to 10g's. 

Bike carbs are usually variable venturi/choke, so it's not as critical to size them properly, but bigger isn't always better. I would not hesitate to run 36s on a 2.0 16v, that's almost perfect size for great driveability and great top end.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

chipperdavis2305 said:


> did you account for carb angle? Or did you mount them flat? Kinda important.


Best way to determine this is to look at the float bowl gasket tot he carb body. You want that gasket surface to be parellel to the ground. My R1 carbs need to be at an angle to maintain proper a float level and therefore proper carb function.


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

ok, will do. Now I just need to put some runners on the darn flange I just purchased.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

chipperdavis2305 said:


> ok, will do. Now I just need to put some runners on the darn flange I just purchased.


Did it get there alright, Nick?


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

yessir, and am VERY pleased, BIG thanks to you, and your machinist, asset to The Tex, :wave:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

chipperdavis2305 said:


> yessir, and am VERY pleased, BIG thanks to you, and your machinist, asset to The Tex, :wave:


Excellent! :thumbup: :beer: All the ports line up well, and all?


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## markaviles (Jan 30, 2008)

*msd*



handyalbert11 said:


> just talked to msd, sounds like the 6al-2 should work, although they have a programmable version that would do the ignition timing also while using the stock 16v distributor. I may go with that and will post here when i get started.


did u install the MSD box? How did it work?


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## chipperdavis2305 (Mar 5, 2010)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Excellent! :thumbup: :beer: All the ports line up well, and all?


Yep, I got an extra 2.0 16v head, and it was spot on. I will be fitting the mani tubes soon.


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## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

How important is the lenght for the pipe that goes from the flange to the carb 

or doesn't matter as long it fits.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

anyone have some tips on where to start with tuning? just stock for the carbs? whats the jet size the 16vs have been liking? basically stock motor.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> anyone have some tips on where to start with tuning? just stock for the carbs? whats the jet size the 16vs have been liking? basically stock motor.


 what carbs are you using? one of those jet drill kits would be ideal so you can work your way up to thejet size you need.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

eme411 said:


> How important is the lenght for the pipe that goes from the flange to the carb
> 
> or doesn't matter as long it fits.


 Pretty much whatever keeps it all clear of the radiator, fans, and allows the hood to close.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

yeayeayea said:


> what carbs are you using? one of those jet drill kits would be ideal so you can work your way up to thejet size you need.


 r1 carbs. :beer: 

wheres a good place to order none of the drill bit kits? i was thinking of going that route just was wondering whats a good base. :thumbup:


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

Not sure if anyone is going to know this. I am going to wire the '95 ZX600 fuel pump using the factory MK3 wiring at the fuel tank but the connecter has 4 wires. Are the two larger gauge wires the power and ground and the smaller ones the gas gauge? What wire colors are what? I know I can probe the wires and figure it out but it is cold as hell in the garage right now and if anyone else knows this info I would rather take the easy route! Thanks.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

id try the mk3 forums as they are more likely to know. you will also get a faster, correct response. :thumbup:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> id try the mk3 forums as they are more likely to know. you will also get a faster, correct response. :thumbup:


 yeah for mk3 specif stuff youre right. most of the guys in this thread are working on mk2's and mk1's


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

blupuick said:


> Not sure if anyone is going to know this. I am going to wire the '95 ZX600 fuel pump using the factory MK3 wiring at the fuel tank but the connecter has 4 wires. Are the two larger gauge wires the power and ground and the smaller ones the gas gauge? What wire colors are what? I know I can probe the wires and figure it out but it is cold as hell in the garage right now and if anyone else knows this info I would rather take the easy route! Thanks.


 If you have a MK3 you shoudl have a MK3 Bentley manual for it. I have one and can check for you (bike carbs are going on a MK1, but my daily is a MK3), just don't have time right at the moment.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Sorry, forgot to check the Bentley. Was fighting a stuck door latch on the MK3 yesterday. 

OTH, I picked up a TT 276 cam and adjustable cam gear for the MK1 Thursday night! Now if only my manifold was finished.


----------



## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Sorry, forgot to check the Bentley. Was fighting a stuck door latch on the MK3 yesterday.
> 
> OTH, I picked up a TT 276 cam and adjustable cam gear for the MK1 Thursday night! Now if only my manifold was finished.


 buy a welder, and weld it. 


get to work!


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Sorry, forgot to check the Bentley. Was fighting a stuck door latch on the MK3 yesterday.
> :


 What is it with MK3's and door handle/latch problems? Both front doors I have had problems, and all four like to freeze shut in the winter. I will be trying to finish up my intake tomorrow and post up some pictures of what I have done.


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

So lets see if i read all this correctly or not. 

I have a ABF im going to carbs on. Correct me if im missing anything or and wrong 

-Carbs and mani 
-Low PSI pump and FPR 
-choke and accel cable 
-Switch out dist to a Saab 8v 
-block off plate for breather box 
-new coil 

I know with the Saab dist ill have to swap the spark wires around to match casue the rotor is 180* off. 

If there was anything else you see i need or am doing wrong please let me know.


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

OK, this is where I am at with my build. Steel manifold with stub runners which I just used 4-ply 1.5" silicone hose and forced it make the bends for me. I then built a bracket from some old crap I had to hold the carbs up so they won't touch the alt. and put the bowls at the right angle. Still have to wire in and mount the fuel pump and buy and install the choke cable along with a lot of finishing work.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

max and tiny said:


> So lets see if i read all this correctly or not.
> 
> I have a ABF im going to carbs on. Correct me if im missing anything or and wrong
> 
> ...


every thing looks good. i personally suggest switching to a different ignition setup up now or later once you get the car running and ready for a tune. i know i am the one running it but it doesnt allow for a lot of ign. timing advancement or retarding. i mean my setup up works great but if i plan on buying cams and adjustable timing gear id have to switch to something else to get it dialed in.


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## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

eme411 said:


> Where can I find some main jets for R1 carbs. I look at dyno jets and they don't ship to Canada


You can use DGAV main jets... that is what Boggs Brothers (google it!) in the UK use.



chipperdavis2305 said:


> did you account for carb angle? Or did you mount them flat? Kinda important.


If you have R1 carbs, it has been answered earlier... you should look around. They (only the R1 carbs, that I know of) can operate as either down or side draft carburetors.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Another carb you can look into as a straight side draft carb that identical to the R-1 is carbs off of a yamaha RX-1 snowmobile.


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## markaviles (Jan 30, 2008)

*block of plate*



max and tiny said:


> So lets see if i read all this correctly or not.
> 
> I have a ABF im going to carbs on. Correct me if im missing anything or and wrong
> 
> ...


 Sir
do you know af a shop that sells such block off plate for the breather.


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## revbjeff (Mar 24, 2004)

markaviles said:


> Sir
> do you know af a shop that sells such block off plate for the breather.


http://www.nothingleavesstock.com/page13/page13.html


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> buy a welder, and weld it.
> 
> 
> get to work!


If I had the scratch for a nice TIG machine, this build wouldn't be an ongoing 3 year project, at this point! :laugh:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I got my tig welder for 250, and paid another 80 for the pedal. i found it on a local classifieds site. the deals are out there, you just have to look. my welder sells for 1200 for everything that I have with it.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Damned thats a great deal!! What welder did you get for 250?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I got my tig welder for 250, and paid another 80 for the pedal. i found it on a local classifieds site. the deals are out there, you just have to look. my welder sells for 1200 for everything that I have with it.


 Just got a lot going on, right now, too. I will be getting a TIG, but it will be for the shop I'm opening, not my personal machine. That's sucking up a lot of time and resources, at the moment. Dealing with zoning, inspections, how much the equipment is going to cost, etc all while being out of work and trying to do whatever I can on the side to pay the bills until we get the shop open. And it's just too freakin' cold to be doing some of the things I need to do for this project, like paint parts! :laugh:


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

I hear ya, it's just warmed up into the 20°'s after a stint in the -30°'s. i was out in the shop scraping crud off my transmission last night but i only made it about an hour before my hands gave out.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Damned thats a great deal!! What welder did you get for 250?


 I got this sureweld, which is a repainted miller 330 a/bp 

http://weldingweb.com/showthread.php?p=419724#post419724


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Thats an ancient welder. Yeah theres alot of those older welders out there that are manufactured all the same with different badges and paint jobs on them.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

*runner length*

for those of you running R1 carbs on an ABA... when making the manifold how long are the runners? I am asking because I don't have the motor in the car yet. I understand length in relation to torque and the whole issue with radiator interference but I am looking to do most of the build before installation... any help is appreciated. Got my mani mocked up and looking to tig it tomorrow. Thanks in advance. 
MikeB


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Thats an ancient welder. Yeah theres alot of those older welders out there that are manufactured all the same with different badges and paint jobs on them.


 old yes, but it works like a dream and was a 1/4 the price of all the newer miller ac/dc tigs i could find for sale, and the guy even delivered it to my house for me.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

funpig said:


> for those of you running R1 carbs on an ABA... when making the manifold how long are the runners? I am asking because I don't have the motor in the car yet. I understand length in relation to torque and the whole issue with radiator interference but I am looking to do most of the build before installation... any help is appreciated. Got my mani mocked up and looking to tig it tomorrow. Thanks in advance.
> MikeB


 Around 3" seems to be the average. See the previous page, 3" long 4 ply silicone couplers work pretty darned well.


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## hans j (Nov 30, 2002)

funpig said:


> for those of you running R1 carbs on an ABA... when making the manifold how long are the runners? I am asking because I don't have the motor in the car yet. I understand length in relation to torque and the whole issue with radiator interference but I am looking to do most of the build before installation... any help is appreciated. Got my mani mocked up and looking to tig it tomorrow. Thanks in advance.
> MikeB


 I am running Mikuni RS flatslide carbs as throttle bodies so they are a little different but I got almost 6" out of the intake when I flipped the radiator and tucked it under the core support a little.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

ordered all the gear for the conversion to bike carbs except the pesky intake manifold. might have to get one cut locally. Need to have this thing done for Eurowerks. 


on a side note, anybody running the raceland MK1/16valve conversion header?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Heres a pull as promissed. I slipped launching and im at 60 at the top of 2nd.:laugh:


 thats cool you take your little one on the road with you. my oldest loved to ride in my 8v gti, and aba rabbit truck....:beer:opcorn:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

drove mine for the first time in a couple months. it felt good to stretch its legs a bit


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

anyone have any pics of a lower intake mani from an aeg or aba cut with couplers?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> anyone have any pics of a lower intake mani from an aeg or aba cut with couplers?


The biggest problem you run into with that is plugging the injector ports. I started out planning to use the ABA lower, but between the injector ports and the smaller size of the runners it just didn't seem practical. 

Started making a rig to hold my runners for final facing and welding, yesterday. Hope to finish it up today, and I'll get some pics up. :thumbup:


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> The biggest problem you run into with that is plugging the injector ports. I started out planning to use the ABA lower, but between the injector ports and the smaller size of the runners it just didn't seem practical.
> 
> Started making a rig to hold my runners for final facing and welding, yesterday. Hope to finish it up today, and I'll get some pics up. :thumbup:


thanks for the info


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

got another head scratcher...for those running aba, the return hose to the resv. how are we deleting/rerouting. had a thought to use a fox rad and toss the resv...?
got some first day project pics. removed rain tray, started wrinkle finishing bay...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Haven't gotten to coolant hoses on mine, yet, and my MK1 already has a rad with a fill cap and was a reservoir-less system to begin with.

Got my rack to hold the runners finished up yesterday. Need to re-do one runner, not a big deal. Just glad to be getting something done. :thumbup:


----------



## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

carbs are here...eace:
whats vac, and whats fuel? oh wait page #4...:laugh:


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

got my 16v stripped down...wrinkle finished my valve cover gasket, and top carb covers...love the way this stuff looks...


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

got my 16v stripped down...wrinkle finished my valve cover gasket, and top carb covers...love the way this stuff looks...

if anyonewants or knows someone that needs any stock 9a parts let me know...everything im not using is for sale....*CHEAP*









was completely shocked to removed the valve cover and find that the head has machined already.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Damn that looks good! I was thinking about ordering some wrinkle black powdercoat and doing the same thing, or possibly wrinkle red


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Damn that looks good! I was thinking about ordering some wrinkle black powdercoat and doing the same thing, or possibly wrinkle red


thanks, was wanting red as well but no part store around me had any....ive really fallen in love with the way that the valve cover, and carb caps came out....:heart::heart::heart:...just waiting on my mani to get done. go it all traced up, just gotta cut it out, size up the runners, weld it and its all down hill from there....good luck with the red post up some pics when you get er done...


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Getting ready to reset my needle heights, put in a new rear tranny/motor mount and tune her up for race season and a dyno test.


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## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

I saw a lot of post on this subject.(Tuning-jets,needles ect.)So maybe reference this will help....
(This is for Mikuni HSR-series carburetors.But the same principals apply for the R1 carbs)


1: Main Jet Size: How to Get it Right

Mikuni HSR-series carburetors are remarkably versatile instruments. The standard tuning seldom needs more than small adjustments to accommodate a wide range of engine set-ups. One of the more common required changes is the main jet size.

Aftermarket exhausts have a wide range of flow volumes and the best main jet size is closely associated with exhaust flow. Thus, it is often necessary to replace the standard main jet with a different size to accommodate the wide range of exhaust designs on the market. However, it is easy to get the main jet right for a particular exhaust system using one of the techniques described on this page.

The standard main jet fitted to the HSR42 is a number 160. This size is correct for stock mufflers. Typically, an HSR42 combined with aftermarket exhaust system needs a 165 main jet. The general rule is that HSR42s fitted to engines with loud exhausts usually run best with a 165 main jet.

The HSR45 has a number 175 and the HSR48 a 190. These jets are more suited to modified engines with free flowing exhaust systems.

Keep in mind that the main jet does not affect mixtures until approximately 3/4 throttle. Below that throttle setting, specifically between 1/4 and 3/4 throttle, air/fuel mixtures are controlled by the jet needle and needle jet.

It is relatively easy to get the main jet correct. Follow either of the techniques described below. Both are satisfactory but the Roll-On procedure is more accurate.

NOTE:

The following tuning techniques might result in excessive (illegal) speed and increased risk from the speed and the necessary distraction of doing the test. We recommend that the testing be done on a closed course (track) or on a dynamometer, if one is available.

ROLL-OFF:

The Roll-Off technique is the quickest and is almost as accurate as the Roll-On method. First, one gets the engine warm on the way to a safe roadway. If there is room, use fourth gear as this allows more time to assess the result.

Now, get the engine rpm high enough that it is on the cam and in its power band. This may need to be as high as 4000 rpm with some cam choices. Apply full throttle. Let the engine accelerate for a couple of seconds until it has settled in and is pulling hard. Quickly roll the throttle off to about the 7/8ths position. When you do this, the mixture richens slightly for a second or so.
If the engine gains power as you roll the throttle off, then the main jet is too small and you need to fit a larger one.
If the engine staggers slightly or has a hard hesitation, then the main jet is too large and you need to fit a smaller one.


Typically, mid-range performance is controlled by the jet needle/needle jet combination. This is because the majority of mid-rpm operation is at low throttle settings or on the highway at cruising speeds of 50 - 70 mph. The HSR42 or HSR45 can deliver enough air/fuel mixture to support these speeds with throttle openings between 1/8th & 1/4, where the straight-diameter part of the jet needle controls fuel flow.

Flat throttle response in the mid-rpm range is seldom caused by either an over-rich or overly lean condition. Flat mid-rpm performance is more likely due to the effects of the cam or exhaust design. If the needle size is incorrect, it will normally reveal itself as poor mileage (too rich), slow warm-up (too lean) or light detonation when accelerating moderately from around 2500 to 2900 rpm (again, too lean).

Note:

Confusing symptoms is one of the most common errors in diagnosing carburetor tuning inaccuracies. For instance, low power at 60 mph (2500 rpm) in top gear may have one or more of several causes: The exhaust system may not work well at that rpm, the cam design may not work well at that rpm, the ignition timing could be incorrect for that rpm, or, --- the carburetor could be set too lean or too rich at that throttle opening.

Notice that when the carburetor was mentioned above, it is the throttle opening we refer to and not the rpm. This is an important difference.

While the performance of other engine components depend, to a large extent, upon rpm, the carburetor only responds to the position of its throttle valve (slide) and the amount of air flowing through it (and sometimes the direction of that air flow).

One of the most valuable carburetor tuning aids is to change rpm (down or up shift) while holding the same road speed. An example: The engine gives poor acceleration from 60 mph (2570 rpm) in top gear. If you maintain the road speed and down shift to fourth gear, the throttle setting will remain essentially the same but the engine rpm will increase 20%. If the poor top gear acceleration is due to, say, poor exhaust system performance at that rpm, then, the problem will either go away, get better or at least change its character. If, on the other hand, the problem is carburetor tuning, the poor acceleration will remain the same because the carburetor throttle opening is the same.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Found this link in another thread for those having issues with a knock box setup. From what I've read there and elsewhere, the idle switch is something you want to run with the carbs, but the WOT switch is an enrichment circuit for the CIS-E.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?424779


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

my progress...idle and wot switch, knock box ignition already wired up, ready to drop the hammer....well, once my mani is finished...:beer:


----------



## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

Miami Blue said:


> Hey everyone! I havent been on here in a while, im pleased to see that its still active in here! Liking the progress everyone is making too!
> 
> Ive recently had a couple people message me and ask what ignition set up im running, so i drew up some schematics.
> 
> ...



hows this set up working for you? i have yet to get my r1 9a started to see how my idle and wot set up works...:beer::beer:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Hey if there anyone looking to do this with their counterflow and would be interested in the manifold adapter as well as a built head let me know im selling mine to go crossflow.
Ill make a deal for the head and manifold together just for those wanting to go to bike carbs.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5188057-Built-8v-counterflow-head


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## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

Manifold Im wokring on for a customer.crappy cell pics sorry


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

That's pretty boss. Can you tell me what size tube that is? and what you did to oval the tube on the flange side?

i bought some 1.25 sched 40 alum tube and i'm curious how that compares to what's proven working.

also what's the thickness of your flange material? I grabbed 1/2" because it was in the scrap bin


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

HiFiLongboards said:


> That's pretty boss. Can you tell me what size tube that is? and what you did to oval the tube on the flange side?
> 
> i bought some 1.25 sched 40 alum tube and i'm curious how that compares to what's proven working.
> 
> also what's the thickness of your flange material? I grabbed 1/2" because it was in the scrap bin


1.25"? I used 1.75", which is 44mm. the stock 1.8 16v intake is 40mm, and the 2.0 16v is 42mm. 1.25" is only 31.75mm. Also, I ovaled my pipe with nothing more than a bench vice and a rubber mallet, and the 1.75 pipe ovaled out to almost the exact size of the stock intake ports. made welding it very easy.


----------



## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

> yeayeayea
> Originally Posted by HiFiLongboards
> That's pretty boss. Can you tell me what size tube that is? and what you did to oval the tube on the flange side?
> 
> ...


you're right it is 1.75" it says 1.25" on it but it measures 1.75" the I.D. is just a mm or two fat of the carb openings. Cool piece.


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## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

6061 1.75" .065 wall. 3/8 flange.Worked oval with shop rag folded on edge of table with a dead blow hammer. U could use 1/2 flange and a thicker wall tube if u want.What I used worked good and kept the cost down.It would be easier and faster to make/weld with the 1/2 flange thicker tube.(if your welder supports the thickness.My welder is rated for 3/16.But I just preheated the flange.U can also use helium to gain about 30% more out of your welder.)


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## Zuproc (Jul 11, 2004)

extremsplvr6 said:


> Manifold Im wokring on for a customer.crappy cell pics sorry


Looks a lot better and person he has been helping me so ican get on the road back to MD soon, but we have had the worst luck on parts getting in on time. Pics will be poster when its finished. I am just glad the vortex exists otherwise I would never had gotten this far not go the help I needed.


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

any body actually using megasquirt to power this setup yet?

9a 16v R1 Carbs?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

formerfreeagent said:


> any body actually using megasquirt to power this setup yet?
> 
> 9a 16v R1 Carbs?


if you are talking about ignition. no one from this thread is that i am aware of. but if you were to use MS why wouldnt you just go FI with ITBs from a bike?


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

What it boils down to is, right now a lack of funds for the project I truly want. And this option provides the largest amount of possibilities for modifications in the future

Only problem right now is finding a wiring diagram I can use....


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## Zuproc (Jul 11, 2004)

I am going to use a 6al2 programable MSD will let you know when I finish hopefully tomorrow how it goes.:wave::wave:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Zuproc said:


> I am going to use a 6al2 programable MSD will let you know when I finish hopefully tomorrow how it goes.:wave::wave:


If you have the regular locked out distributor, you could probably use the Hall Effect input, could you confirm this? Please, pretty please? :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

formerfreeagent said:


> What it boils down to is, right now a lack of funds for the project I truly want. And this option provides the largest amount of possibilities for modifications in the future
> 
> Only problem right now is finding a wiring diagram I can use....


Here's the two knock sensor diagrams I've found:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?424779

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...rite-up!/page6

I checked out both and it appears the one from earlier in this thread is missing the main power feed. The yellow wires are connected to the boxes/coil, but not to a power source.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

got my mani joined up...used the factory lower 16v mani ordered something like the durafix easyweld, home depot for the mapp gas, and wala..... jus have to clean it up and cut the runners down to size....


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## Zuproc (Jul 11, 2004)

pnavarro said:


> If you have the regular locked out distributor, you could probably use the Hall Effect input, could you confirm this? Please, pretty please? :thumbup:


I ran the old 6al msd off the hall effect but the new one has an input off the hall affect the 6al2 that is programmable. Check out the color codes on msd the white and blue is for the hall effect http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/Products/Ignitions/6421.pdf?terms=6421.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)




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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

interesting approach. let us know how that holds up :thumbup:


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> interesting approach. let us know how that holds up :thumbup:


will do...gonna cut them down after work and fit some gas tank filler necks on them...


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

Zuproc said:


> I ran the old 6al msd off the hall effect but the new one has an input off the hall affect the 6al2 that is programmable. Check out the color codes on msd the white and blue is for the hall effect http://www.msdignition.com/instructions/Products/Ignitions/6421.pdf?terms=6421.


How did you run the 6al with the hall effect? Did you have to come up with some sort of amplifier? Thanks.


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## Zuproc (Jul 11, 2004)

blupuick said:


> How did you run the 6al with the hall effect? Did you have to come up with some sort of amplifier? Thanks.


a2resource.com I just pulled the wire color off of the hall sensor here and ran right off of it.


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## markaviles (Jan 30, 2008)

*wirign diagram*



yorgerg said:


> hows this set up working for you? i have yet to get my r1 9a started to see how my idle and wot set up works...:beer::beer:


sir 
did u get to run this set p for your ignition?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

markaviles said:


> sir
> did u get to run this set p for your ignition?


havent gotten my mani finished yet to start up my 9a. the mani is the the only thing holding me up from dropping the engine in. as soon as i get it in and wired up ill post pics and videos. aside from all the ignition differences ive reaad about on carb setups, i dont see this set up not working. still may have to tune but in all my research no doubt it wont work...ill keep the thread updated on my results....:beer:


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## uncle_scott (Oct 12, 2009)

Quick question. I made a trip down to Home Depot Motorsports Dept. this weekend to pick up a few copper plugs for my injector lines. While there, I pieced this vacuum system together. *Will this work for pulling vacuum to the brake booster, or are the injector ports in the wrong place? If you have any first hand knowledge, please let me know. Thanks! *

My plan is to use a few 1.5" silicone couplers from the local industrial hose and tubing center to hook my R1 carbs up to this shorty manifold. This is the ultimate budget build . haha


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Short answer is it will work, long answer is you could have pulsing and depending on the cams not enough vac to supply the booster.


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## uncle_scott (Oct 12, 2009)

^^^Thanks for the reply. If I dremel out the area between the manifold runners and the injector ports is there a chance that I will get a more consistent airflow, and therefore a more consistent vacuum?

The engine will be a stock 1.8l 16v on r1 carbs. Nothing crazy, just looking for a fun project with a motor and shell I had lying around. If I can make it run on a shoestring budget, then I will be happy with whatever results I get, haha.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

uncle_scott said:


> ^^^Thanks for the reply. If I dremel out the area between the manifold runners and the injector ports is there a chance that I will get a more consistent airflow, and therefore a more consistent vacuum?
> 
> The engine will be a stock 1.8l 16v on r1 carbs. Nothing crazy, just looking for a fun project with a motor and shell I had lying around. If I can make it run on a shoestring budget, then I will be happy with whatever results I get, haha.


I would just run it how you have it and not dremel anything.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I only have 1 vacuum port tied to the #4 cylinder and it is enough vacuum for everything. 4 will be plenty.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)




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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

looks good but wont you run into hood clearance problems?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

bmxguy said:


> looks good but wont you run into hood clearance problems?


its not the final put together...im sure i will have to cut them down again to clear the hood.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

yorgerg said:


> its not the final put together...im sure i will have to cut them down again to clear the hood.


probably will have to remove 3 inches to clear your hood


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> probably will have to remove 3 inches to clear your hood


na not that much, most of that is hose which will be cut down as well. still have to mount air filters. kn rc2240's


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

yorgerg said:


> na not that much, most of that is hose which will be cut down as well. still have to mount air filters. kn rc2240's


wanna bet? I like my odds


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

yorg. did you make the manifold so that when the engine is in the car the top valve cover will be parallel to the ground? because from the angle in the picture it looks like the engine is tilted forward but your float bowls are parallel to the ground. so when the engine is sitting proper they will be leaning way back. also the from the angle of the picture even if you cut the rubber tubing down so that the carbs touch the intake manifold and have filters on the carbs i dont think it will fit without hitting the hood.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Also Id recommend doing the mockup with as many parts installed as possible, such as the alternator, breather tubes, throttle brackets. I know some stuff you have to make as you go along, but putting a lot of effort into the intake manifold can be wasted if the carbs dont clear such and such part not installed when doing the mockup. my carbs have about 1mm space between them and the ABA alternator I am running, and it would have been a major PITA had they not cleared. 

Front coolant neck is also another headache. I run the ABF neck and a stock upper rad hose, I cut the hose directly after the 90* bend out of the radiator, and flipped the hose that connects to the water neck, which made everything line up nicely.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Also Id recommend doing the mockup with as many parts installed as possible, such as the alternator, breather tubes, throttle brackets. I know some stuff you have to make as you go along, but putting a lot of effort into the intake manifold can be wasted if the carbs dont clear such and such part not installed when doing the mockup. my carbs have about 1mm space between them and the ABA alternator I am running, and it would have been a major PITA had they not cleared.
> 
> Front coolant neck is also another headache. I run the ABF neck and a stock upper rad hose, I cut the hose directly after the 90* bend out of the radiator, and flipped the hose that connects to the water neck, which made everything line up nicely.


yes i know it will have to be cut down...this is not the final result i was testfitting because id gotten the manifold finished. i still have to mount filters and test fit into the car. im sure yes i will need to cut the runners and hoses down more. as for the angle, this durafix easy weld stuff is rock solid in the pics above, but if i need to reajust the angle due to the engine position in the car, i can reheat this stuff with the mapp gas and reposition the runners.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I agree on the hood clearance. Said something similar in the "All carb diet" thread. 

Fabbing your own bracket and having no P/S are the keys to alternator mounting goodness.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> I agree on the hood clearance. Said something similar in the "All carb diet" thread.
> 
> Fabbing your own bracket and having no P/S are the keys to alternator mounting goodness.


:beer: i agree. i ran no p/s or ac on my aba rabbit truck, only had to come up with the vr6 water pump pully. i figured this with be a bit more challenging if i want to go with the serp. belt set up.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

first test fit...more trimming and readjusting to come...


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> ABA Alternator with AC and P/S are the keys to alternator mounting goodness.



FTFY


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

86Franklin said:


> ok here is comparison shots of the 1986 saab 900 nonturbo 8v dist and vw 1.8/2.0 16v dist.
> here is a side view to get an idea of how long the vacuum adv. dist is from the saab.
> 
> 
> ...



hass anyone have a diagram to move the spark plug wires around for the Saab dizzy?


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## uncle_scott (Oct 12, 2009)

^^^Here is a follow-up question. I grabbed a Saab 16v Distributer from the junkyard yesterday. Has anyone mounted one of the long neck styled ones on a 16V VW Head?? I will try to resell it if not, but I was hoping I could just use it since I already bought it. :banghead:

Do I just need to replace it with the 8V non turbo style above?

This looks like what I have:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I think I've said this before, but it's such a shame I just sold the last of my SAAB stuff the beginning of 2010. I know I had an 8V non-turbo Saab distributor, and probably a 16V turbo one, too.


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## uncle_scott (Oct 12, 2009)

^^^ Will the 16V turbo one work? How do you mount it with such a long nose? I was thinking maybe building a spot with some tubing for it to go into. Any advise?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

uncle_scott said:


> ^^^ Will the 16V turbo one work? How do you mount it with such a long nose? I was thinking maybe building a spot with some tubing for it to go into. Any advise?


What year Saab did you grab that from? Looks kinda off, to me, but I haven't really played with anything Saab for years.


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## uncle_scott (Oct 12, 2009)

I don't even know, haha. I popped the hood, saw a 16V dizzy and grabbed it without much thought :laugh:. I think I am just going to post it on eBay and then find or buy an 8V one that I know will bolt right up. I only paid $25 for it, so I should be able to recoup that pretty easily.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

i suggest trying to find an 8v one. ive heard that an early 90s 8v non turbo saab is the same as the older one but it has the square hall sender plug instead of the oval one. i cant confirm this but its worth looking into.

edit: also to the quote of my pictures. i dont think a diagram is necessary. just recognize on the 16v dist which wire the rotor is pointing at, then put the saab dist on and take note of the rotor direction and plugin the wires accordingly.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

After the weekend I think I'm _finally_ ready to get my hands on a TIG welder!!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Hey if theres anybody out there looking for a pre-made intake adapter set up for thier counterflow set up im going to go to a crossflow to set up for turboing my set up. Im going to sell this set up. If your interested shoot me a message. will sell for a good price.

















__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

My buddy needs to get his stinkin' TIG welder so I can get my manifold finished!! :laugh: It's starting to get nice out and I want to do some top down driving this year with out getting raped to run a few beads! :beer: 

So, who's got updates? How are the cars that have been running still holding up? How do they behave with the temp changes?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> So, who's got updates? How are the cars that have been running still holding up? How do they behave with the temp changes?


 My car is running quite well, after... 7 months of semi daily driving! Best mod I've done so far!


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

little update on my build. fabing up a air box to direct cool outside air to the carbs. still gonna use cone filters on carbs, just dont want them sucking hot air from the radiator...if anyone can direct me to a good place for a vertical honda radiator...?:beer:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> My buddy needs to get his stinkin' TIG welder so I can get my manifold finished!! :laugh: It's starting to get nice out and I want to do some top down driving this year with out getting raped to run a few beads! :beer:
> 
> So, who's got updates? How are the cars that have been running still holding up? How do they behave with the temp changes?


 Ive been dailying mine this week because the mk3 needs front brakes. It is fun, but I work a dirty job so im worried about f'ing up the seats. still, i have 2 round abouts on my way to work, and they are a lot of fun


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

YJSAABMAN said:


> So, who's got updates? How are the cars that have been running still holding up? How do they behave with the temp changes?


 Its running great!! Has been since i figured out my bowl float levels


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Its running great!! Has been since i figured out my bowl float levels


 Teach me how to adjust float bowls! Or post a tutorial in youtube!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Literally i just pulled the bowls off then adjusted the tabs untill they all sat at the same height


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Heres the perfect set of carbs if your looking for more of a astraight side draft setup for you car!! 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Yama...wmobile_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e67b2dcc


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

yorgerg said:


> little update on my build. fabing up a air box to direct cool outside air to the carbs. still gonna use cone filters on carbs, just dont want them sucking hot air from the radiator...if anyone can direct me to a good place for a vertical honda radiator...?:beer:


 

that will never clear the hood. 

for realz. 

as for the honda rad i would check the junkyard


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

i have a honda vertical rad. its only a single core though, but it has never been installed or had any kind of fluid in it. also if someone reminds me ill be home next weekend and can make the video on how to adjust the floats.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> if someone reminds me ill be home next weekend and can make the video on how to adjust the floats.


 I remind you as of now: record the video! :laugh: 

@MKIGTITDI hmmm... I'll give it a try, probably it's really easy, but you know how it is... monkey see, monkey do...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Glad to see the "old heads" are still keeping tabs on this thread and have good things to say! :beer:


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

im going to run a dual core honda civic radiator. A lot of MK1 guys in england do it and say it works. You may have to angle it over the trans a bit but it works


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

I check this thread all the time. My car has been parked all winter. Going to get it back out next weekend)


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

max and tiny said:


> im going to run a dual core honda civic radiator. A lot of MK1 guys in england do it and say it works. You may have to angle it over the trans a bit but it works


 exactly what thoughts i had. but didnt know the dimensions. did find one on ebay for super cheap.:thumbup:


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> that will never clear the hood.
> 
> for realz.
> 
> as for the honda rad i would check the junkyard


 yeah i know which is why im considering the honda rad. so ill have cool outside air right to the carbs through the grill.:beer:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Hmm...might have to check these Honda radiators out at the 'yard today.


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

i got mine from Go-autoworks. i got radiator, slim fan, and shroud for 200ish.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I hated my honda rad, but i didnt put much effort into making it work nicely.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

what do you do with the temp sensor on the stock vw rads when you swap to honda rads? how would a dasher/fox rad work? they look to be about the same size as a honda one but im not sure if itd be enough to cool a 16v.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

bmxguy said:


> what do you do with the temp sensor on the stock vw rads when you swap to honda rads? how would a dasher/fox rad work? they look to be about the same size as a honda one but im not sure if itd be enough to cool a 16v.


 i was thinking of just wiring in the honda dual thermo switch into the 16v harness. dasher and foxes are good ideas as well. i do think that they are 2 core radiators...!?


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

*First time poster*

I have been working on this build to swap into my MK1 Cabby all winter with the help of my good friend Frozen337. Here is the link to the build over in the Cabby Forum and as it gets closer to go time I will be asking/answering more questions. 

Thanks for having me. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5118021-85-Mk1-Full-ABA-swap-Build-Thread


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

engine looks good, but your carbs appear to be angled down a bit too much. wont know if its a problem until you start it for the first time, but you might have fuel problems due to float angle.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> engine looks good, but your carbs appear to be angled down a bit too much. wont know if its a problem until you start it for the first time, but you might have fuel problems due to float angle.


 Yea, I will level them once they are in the car, for right now I just have it mocked up to make sure everything fits tight and there are no air leaks. 

I will keep you posted as it progresses.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Heres another video of me playing. sorry its not edited but theres a part of me pulling through 4th gear up to 120. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwWCBWBTbck 
and another one of a pull to 90 with the carbs tuned. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-gqw26sfFg


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Heres another video of me playing. sorry its not edited but theres a part of me pulling through 4th gear up to 120.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwWCBWBTbck
> and another one of a pull to 90 with the carbs tuned.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-gqw26sfFg


 Looks great!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

MKIGTITDI said:


> and another one of a pull to 90 with the carbs tuned.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-gqw26sfFg


 Gearbox sounds a little rough, there!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah my reverse is goin bad. Plan on putting a 4 speed in it before to long.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

got the injector ports plugged, sat it in the car, moked up fuel pressure regulator, ran my throttle cable and choke. still in the air about radiators fox or civic...


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

^that looks good and Im pretty sure a fox and civic Rad are really close in dimensions. Also I started my car yesterday after it sat all winter and started easily with no tinkering and it starts right up with the choke applied in low 30 degree weather. Can't wait to get it on the road as my daily here on the next couple days. Let me know of anyone needs a video of how to adjust floats.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> ^that looks good and Im pretty sure a fox and civic Rad are really close in dimensions. Also I started my car yesterday after it sat all winter and started easily with no tinkering and it starts right up with the choke applied in low 30 degree weather. Can't wait to get it on the road as my daily here on the next couple days. Let me know of anyone needs a video of how to adjust floats.


 ME!!! Please!!!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I got some new go fast parts out of my uncles basement.

44.3mm ITB's with mechanical fuel injection


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

^ do want


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Hey i still have my carb adapters for a counter flow if anybodies looking for something pre-made. Anyways so ive sold my head and have a ported aba head coming into my hands here shortly(as soon as the tech is finished assembling it) so as soon as i can get it and get a new manifold built ill be back onto the road. then my next step is going to be making a plenum to go off of the front of the carbs and reference float and slide pressure to and be buying a supercharger....it will vagely resemble this only with carbs off the front... and no shaved bay...LOL


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

I read through here guys and it seems all sort of models have been used. Didn't see anyone that tried the R1 setup with a S2 Scirocco. For those that did the R1's, what length of runners did you use? And have any issues about keeping it tucked under the hood? Its extremely tight in there on my car :S


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

Wildkard9 said:


> I read through here guys and it seems all sort of models have been used. Didn't see anyone that tried the R1 setup with a S2 Scirocco. For those that did the R1's, what length of runners did you use? And have any issues about keeping it tucked under the hood? Its extremely tight in there on my car :S


I used 2" runners on my manifold and the silicone adapters to attach it. I relocated the alternator so clearance was not an issue.


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

Easier said than done on this one. its been one snag after another.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

So I was doing final assembly on the carbs today and dropped one of the needle spacers and it was never to be seen again. Anyone possibly have on of these laying around? Not interested in dropping $33 for a new stock needle set at the dealer.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

coming together, wiring for knock box setup done, throttle cable done.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

looks like youre not too far away from starting it :thumbup:


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## jonrp (May 24, 2010)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Hey i still have my carb adapters for a counter flow if anybodies looking for something pre-made. Anyways so ive sold my head and have a ported aba head coming into my hands here shortly(as soon as the tech is finished assembling it) so as soon as i can get it and get a new manifold built ill be back onto the road. then my next step is going to be making a plenum to go off of the front of the carbs and reference float and slide pressure to and be buying a supercharger....it will vagely resemble this only with carbs off the front... and no shaved bay...LOL




That is INCREDIBLE!!! What kinds injection are you running?


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## jonrp (May 24, 2010)

yorgerg said:


> coming together, wiring for knock box setup done, throttle cable done.


Looking good greg!!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Actually i wouldnt be running any injection system or i wouldnt be posting that here in this forum. i plan on running wideband and tuning it via needle adjustments/ main jets adjustments. It will be a variation of these 2 set ups.
This is a turbo'd toyota on R1 carbs.








And heres the charger as you've seen/ Ill have to make the intake plenum either way for the set up. whether i decide to turbo it or supercharge it.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

I think those carbs are indeed Mikuni, but come from a jet-ski... hence the side draft orientation.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

jonrp said:


> Looking good greg!!


thanks jp, caint wait to see that biturbo passat variant turn tires down e.ponce...eace:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Their off of a yamaha RX-1 snowmobile. Their identical to the R1s but in a side draft orientation.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Their off of a yamaha RX-1 snowmobile. Their identical to the R1s but in a side draft orientation.


SNOWMOBILE, sorry, by bad, that's what I meant!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

its all good. i might end up using them is why i know.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

MKIGTITDI said:


> its all good. i might end up using them is why i know.


It would make some aspects a little easier!

Still waiting on my buddy to get his TIG welder. Also started back to work 2 weeks ago, but it's nice to have a steady paycheck coming in again! :thumbup:


----------



## eme411 (Aug 27, 2008)

*Throttle cable*

What did you use for the throttle cable, my manifold should be ready soon and I am using R1 carbs on a 2 ltr 16V in a Scirocco. I cannot find anything on how to attach/connect the throttle cable.:banghead:

















[/QUOTE]


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

really there are two choices. clip the tip off the old throttle cable and then use bicycle brake cable to extend it around to where you need it (keeping the solid end on that one to use as the hooking point for the trigger wheel. Or cheat like I did, cut the throttle cable off of a R1 and spliced into that


----------



## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> looks like youre not too far away from starting it :thumbup:


yup getting really close. got spark from knock bock setup, just need to figure out what to do about fuel. go with the intanke pump with a regulator, or the r1 pump, or an electric holley pump...?


----------



## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> no im not got the wiring done, got spark from knock bock setup, just need to figure out what to do about fuel. go with the intanke pump with a regulator, or the r1 pump, or an electric holley pump...?


Weber pump with holley FPR. I can give you the stock numbers if you want to go that route. Available at Auto Zone and usually in stock.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

Exton_Dubs said:


> Weber pump with holley FPR. I can give you the stock numbers if you want to go that route. Available at Auto Zone and usually in stock.


how well does trhis setup work, and last? i got a holley fpr, whats the part number for the pump?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

eme411 said:


> What did you use for the throttle cable, my manifold should be ready soon and I am using R1 carbs on a 2 ltr 16V in a Scirocco. I cannot find anything on how to attach/connect the throttle cable.:banghead:


[/QUOTE]

i used the factory cable clipped the end for the throttlebody, used the end on the factory r1 throttle cable and crimped both together with an electric butt connector. if you dont have the r1 throttle cable, then as stated bicycle brake cable works.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> how well does trhis setup work, and last? i got a holley fpr, whats the part number for the pump?


I will PM you when I get home, can't remember off the top of my head. I just know it was 80 bucks...


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

^^^ sweet, thanks.....


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Im running the carter pump and it runs perfect on my car.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

im running the stock vw lift pump in the tank and it works perfect.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So what mount are you guys using for your alternators on aba's? Going from counterflow 8v to crossflow.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Im running the carter pump and it runs perfect on my car.


Yea I was wrong, I have the carter.

I got an ABF bracket from eBay UK for 8#'s shipped...


----------



## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> So what mount are you guys using for your alternators on aba's? Going from counterflow 8v to crossflow.


the stock aba setup on my 16v :thumbup:


----------



## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> im running the stock vw lift pump in the tank and it works perfect.


ok so the stock intank pump with what kind of fpr?


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

yeayeayea said:


> im running the stock vw lift pump in the tank and it works perfect.


From what I understood the a1 and a2 transfer pumps were like a 2psi max. Just enough to keep positive pressure in the fuel system. So you havent had any hesitation or starvation issues at WOT?


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

Here is my ABF alternator set up, not sure if I posted it before and too lazy to scrol back through the other pages...


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

yorgerg said:


> ok so the stock intank pump with what kind of fpr?


Mr Gasket fpr from autozone. its got a twist knob on top, no tools required











Wildkard9 said:


> From what I understood the a1 and a2 transfer pumps were like a 2psi max. Just enough to keep positive pressure in the fuel system. So you havent had any hesitation or starvation issues at WOT?


Nope  I plugged the fuel feed line to the carbs and i think it made 3 psi. under normal operation the fuel pressure gauge never moved off 0psi. I dont have any kind of return line hooked up either. 

Fuel atomizing at 7k, certainly doesnt look like its starving but im ordering a Wideband with my tax return and will do some data logging. note that in this video I have a hole in my header flex pipe, so its a wee bit loud. Also keep in mind that i have done 0 tuning to this car. I drilled the jets before i installed the carbs, and the only adjustment i have made has been advancing the ignition timing all the way and playing with the FPR. No needle adjustments, no cam timing adjustment, just set it up initially and have been driving it ever since. I am going to redyno soon and with some tuning I hope to break 150 whp. Im going to add HD valve springs too to help with the upper rpm performance.


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

Between all the work I had done to my car prior to this I should see close to 165 or 170. The aggressive cams, enrichment module, and exhaust gave me a reading on my G Tech monitor of 151. At the dyno she hit 143 from the CIS. So being able to give it more juice and ridding myself of extras off the motor should change it up a little more.

And just for giggles heres the picture of my AC delete/Alternator move on the PL. She fits just about perfect on the AC mount. just have to adjust it on the front side lower bolt hole of the alternator (the hole isnt exactly in line).


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## vswords32 (Mar 14, 2007)

ive only skimmed this thread over the past few weeks..going 9a with r1..
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5024595-jetta-coupe-16v-carbed-build-thread

the only thing that im taking my time at is the inlet manafold.now my question is..i want to use the bottom part of the 16v manafold and cut it down ...simple so far...it just bolts on to the head..
ive checked alot over the net about this before i went and removed the old 8 valve,

can i not split the carbs and space them out accordingly to suit the manafold rather than getting one made up??

and another question?
im going to be using this









which is going to control my spark and advance...
can i totally remove my 8v ecu complete?right back to the fuse box?


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

I looked into splitting them. I came up with mixed results about doing it that way. Have to make tabs to keep them interlinked. the gap is going to be about 1/2 a inch. the tricky part was fuel. I hadnt come up with a good answer for it yet.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

vswords32 said:


> ive only skimmed this thread over the past few weeks..going 9a with r1..
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5024595-jetta-coupe-16v-carbed-build-thread
> 
> the only thing that im taking my time at is the inlet manafold.now my question is..i want to use the bottom part of the 16v manafold and cut it down ...simple so far...it just bolts on to the head..
> ...


keep everything except that plug at the very top of this pic. i wired mine using an idle and wot switch, kept the long knock sensor wire out of that harness and made it into a 2 wire plug instead of 3. im going to use a knock senor from an mk4.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

this is my set up just after running the last wire for the knock box setup...>>[video]http://s941.photobucket.com/albums/ad257/gregip/?action=view&current=r116vspark001.mp4[/video]


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

looking through your album on photobucket you should have put the carbs on your caddy!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vswords32 said:


> ive only skimmed this thread over the past few weeks..going 9a with r1..
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5024595-jetta-coupe-16v-carbed-build-thread
> 
> the only thing that im taking my time at is the inlet manafold.now my question is..i want to use the bottom part of the 16v manafold and cut it down ...simple so far...it just bolts on to the head..
> ...


Yup, that should be all you need, aside from a fuel pump and regulator. I'm working on a slightly more complete diagram than anything I've found, so far, for the knock box setup on its own. I wired mine using two different diagrams I've found on here and the Bentley. I just don't have a manifold yet to finish everything and see if it runs! :laugh: I'm using the original 3 wire knock sensor, and I extended all my wiring and will be tucking it away, though not until I'm sure it runs!


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

MKIGTITDI said:


> looking through your album on photobucket you should have put the carbs on your caddy!


yeah, but didnt have the drive for the carbs then as i do now, besides the aba paired with the 16v tranny was a hauler.......sad now though, the r116v has come to a hault. doing a vr swap in a 92 jetta...my coworker jonrp here on vortex has already got his 2.7biturbo passat 4motion already started. gotta get something together to try and keep up...:laugh:


----------



## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

Well I am officially doing my engine swap next weekend 4/22-4/24. Anyone in south central PA that wants to join in PM me for directions. Its going down in Shippensburg, PA.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Ordered a wideband and a vdo vacuum gauge, will post up results when i have em


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Whats you jet size? Im interested to see the results with the wideband across the board with the tunability of these carbs and how hord it is to get a good even ratio across the board.


----------



## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Whats you jet size? Im interested to see the results with the wideband across the board with the tunability of these carbs and how hord it is to get a good even ratio across the board.


I am running 170 jets and will dialing it all in this weekend. I also have just about anyother size main jet you could ever want if you are looking to upgrade.

Plan to hit the Dyno in May after everything is broken in...


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Damned i was running 200 jets in my rig and it was seeming pretty close to dialed. i was also running a bigger cam as well. dont know what difference that would make though.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

umm, not sure on the jets. I drilled them out. Its written in one of the old cbr900rr threads
. I take it most of the guys in this thread are running R1 carbs, so i dont know how closely related they are. The wideband arrived today though, havn't even unboxed it yet!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Exton_Dubs said:


> Well I am officially doing my engine swap next weekend 4/22-4/24. Anyone in south central PA that wants to join in PM me for directions. Its going down in Shippensburg, PA.


Sadly this weekend is beyond busy for me, man! :banghead: Good luck! :beer:


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Sadly this weekend is beyond busy for me, man! :banghead: Good luck! :beer:


I don't think I will be sleeping for the next three days. Were starting at 4:30 today and hope to have the engine out, bay and trans cleaned, poly rack bushings installed, and short shift kit in place tonight.

Tomorrow the new motor goes in, gets wired, and everything buttoned down.

Sunday will be carbs, trouble shooting, and if time allows rear disc conversion.

May the force be with us and I will update my build thread with pics when it all done... :beer:


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Exton_Dubs said:


> rear disc conversion *NEXT MONTH*.


Fixed for you!

Just think, NEXT friday, we can do the head gasket on the deadly jetta o death just hours before we drive to VOLKSFEST! 

opcorn:


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> Fixed for you!
> 
> Just think, NEXT friday, we can do the head gasket on the deadly jetta o death just hours before we drive to VOLKSFEST!
> 
> opcorn:


Why wait till Friday? My grad school career ends Tuesday at 4PM!


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Exton_Dubs said:


> Why wait till Friday? My grad school career ends Tuesday at 4PM!


In that case . . . We should just get the 190 going for the weekend! :laugh:


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> In that case . . . We should just get the 190 going for the weekend! :laugh:


I said I am done with grad school, not a miracle worker :laugh:

Now go and find those fittings and fuel line or there will be MK1 carb'd anything at Volksfest.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

*Weekend Pic's*

Before:










During:










After:










Still need to finish this, but we are close. Just need another day or two...


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Exton_Dubs said:


> I said I am done with grad school, not a miracle worker :laugh:
> 
> Now go and find those fittings and fuel line or there will be MK1 carb'd anything at Volksfest.


You just worry about your pinky delete and flash bangs, I got this! :laugh:


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## vswords32 (Mar 14, 2007)

*wideband*

is it necessary too use an wideband setup with carbs?


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

not if you can get oldschool engine readings.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

vswords32 said:


> is it necessary too use an wideband setup with carbs?


Its not necessary i suppose, but it really helps make sure you are doing things right tuning wise


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

i need to quit being broke and buy jets. since my caddy is haing cis failures its time to go carbs. 

i know i asked a while back and nobody had answers but what size jets in 16vs? im thinking like a 170? :screwy:


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

there really are no set numbers it just depends on your location and engine setup. If you are running a pretty aggressive cam, or a built up motor have to take that into account. Location makes a difference based on air density and pressure differences. Drive up to denver, tune your car there. Go to kansas where the elevation drops 4000 feet. Going to see a change in settings. But if it makes it any easier. My mains are 180's right now. Been doing some research and have the feeling that should put me fairly close. Though I do have some money invested in my motor....


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> i need to quit being broke and buy jets. since my caddy is haing cis failures its time to go carbs.
> 
> i know i asked a while back and nobody had answers but what size jets in 16vs? im thinking like a 170? :screwy:



depends on yoru other mods. what do you have done to the car?, 


edit: apparently I drilled my mains out to 1.73mm, and that is good enough for A/f's in the 14:1 range with headwork, autotech cams, eurosport header and tt exhaust


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

motor has no mods really. stock 1.8 16v has a techtonics 2.25" with dual downpipe and some ignition advance. i have a single wire a/f gauge im hooking up when i install the carbs but it sounds like i should start with a slightly smaller jet.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

bmxguy said:


> motor has no mods really. stock 1.8 16v has a techtonics 2.25" with dual downpipe and some ignition advance. i have a single wire a/f gauge im hooking up when i install the carbs but it sounds like i should start with a slightly smaller jet.


170 is a good place to start. Pick them up at your local Yamaha healer for $15 bucks. If you dont have carbs with adjustable needles order the Dynojet kit and be done with it.


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## joel.gauthier (Oct 3, 2010)

i have a question for you guys !!

im actually building my intake for my carbs and was wondering if i can take my break booster vacuum from the actual intake ?? will it suck up my fuel or air or is it reliable !? cuz i know many ppl do it !? but just wanted to be sure about it
and is it hard to get the right tuning for your carbs or you guys just tryed it as they were set when you got them ??


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I used my old injectors on my counter flow and cut the tip off of them so they had a decent port. Did that with all 4 and it worked for me.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

First pass. It has developed an oil leak somewhere in the oil cooler assembly. Need to pull it apart and check all the seals, make sure it isn't clogged.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

Got my mani all welded up. Engine is going in today...or tomorrow...or the next day.

















here's what i have for questions.

1.For those of you running the SAAB Dizzy from the 86 900 nonturbo. Do you run the VW Dizzy cap with the Saab rotor or SAAB cap with SAAB rotor .

1.25 Where did everyone end up pulling vacuum for the advance?

1.5 Was there ever a workaround decided for the hall plug not being VW?

2. I'm running the Carter 4070 with a holley regulator. i'm planning to disconnect the power from the Stock pump and run those wires to my carter so it functions on the same circuit as the stock pump

2a. Will the carter (Mounted above the pass frame horn) have any issue pulling fuel from the tank with the stock pump inline but disconnected?

2b. Should i run my return line or leave it capped. if i run it Should i have it return before or after the regulator?

thanks in advance for you help
-Martin


----------



## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

Does anyone have a final install pic for the carb vacuum lines etc?Labeled maybe?Or is anyone willing to share this?


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## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

Just hit the jack pot! After months of searching...Anyone wanting to do R1 carbs needs to look at this link and save every carb pic on it!!! http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247485 :thumbup::beer:opcorn:


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

So after the initial swap and running down some minor issues I am still having 2 problems. The first is that I have no coolant temp gauge. I tried wiring the factor sensor in 10 different ways bu none worked. Just going to buy a mechanical setup and move on with my life. The big issue is that the battery is not charging. Its a brand new alternator and I have the blue wire connected to the terminal, but the light stays on the dash and its not charging the battery. Been searching this all over the web but have not found any answers other than hook up the blue wire.

Any thoughts or ideas?


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

HiFiLongboards said:


> Got my mani all welded up. Engine is going in today...or tomorrow...or the next day.
> 
> here's what i have for questions.
> 
> ...


I cant answer all of the questions but here are the few I can.

1.25> People are tapping either the manifold flange where the injectors were or the runners for vacuum. 

1.5 if you find the correct plug in a boneyard like where some find those distributors you could wire it in, in place of the vw one.

2. that is fine. I set my carter up down where the stock pump was. took some innovation to make it clear and tuck away clean but I did it.

2a. your pump is designed to do 30 inches of lift. while it was never explained if that was pushing or pulling, I followed sage advice from some old time car modders. Anywhere there can be sparks or extreme heat sources dont put something that pumps fuel. If your line ever blew and it was in the engine bay. you wouldnt have time to react to a engine fire. first warning would probably be the paint blistering on the hood.


2b. This one seems to be the million dollar question. B4S doesnt run a return. I personally do have a bypass regulator to return the unused fuel. From the experiences of those that have gone this route a fair number have seemed to have issues with the holley regulator crapping out and they end up have 6psi going into the carbs, flooding those. But a good point was made. All the older fords and chevy's before FI became standard didnt have a fuel return line.


----------



## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I run only the stock lift pump, since my car (89 gti cis) came with 2 pumps. I run the mr gasket regulator and have the return line capped. However you could hook the carb overflow lines to the fuel return lines incase your regulator craps out and fills the bowls too much it wont spill out into your engine bay


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Or you could use a motorcycle fuel pump. No fuel pres. regulator nor a return line. :thumbup:


----------



## extremsplvr6 (Mar 26, 2003)

Does anyone have pics of there vacuum line routing?I saw a few pics on the early post but no conformation?


----------



## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

extremsplvr6 said:


> Does anyone have pics of there vacuum line routing?I saw a few pics on the early post but no conformation?


If it wasn't raining I would run out and grab you some of mine. Had a bung welded on the second runner from the right and put a copper 3/8 fitting on it. 3/8 tubing runs down to the OEM bypass valve. From the bypass I used the unblocked off small port for the vacuum advance on the distributor, and then ran 3/8 tubing back up to the brake booster from the other side of the bypass. Works like a charm


----------



## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

I found this looking for a set of drills in jet sizes. Could be helpful

(i'm pretty sure that they list the True diameter in Inches but i could be wrong)

From Planetminis.com


> I know many people that use a jet drill kit to drill out their jets. I was looking for the true hole size for a while. Here's the data:
> 
> (Width = true hole diameter)
> Width------Keihin # -- DynoJets # -- Mikuni #
> ...


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Awesome info, I don't quite understand it... but I'm quite sure it'll be handy pretty soon.

btw, any updates on the video about setting float hight? I'm gonna clean and rebuild my carbs this week... please? Still not confident enough with that little issue...


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

shoot forgot about that. but i think my pump burned up so i should be able to. (remember this is for my side draft carbs but this set up should apply to r1's as well seeing as the float designs are relatively the same.)


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> shoot forgot about that. but i think my pump burned up so i should be able to. (remember this is for my side draft carbs but this set up should apply to r1's as well seeing as the float designs are relatively the same.)


Thankyouthankyouthankyou :thumbup:


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

ok, pnavarro 

i found this pdf ( http://www.r1messagenet.com/howto/manuals/YZFR1-98.pdf ) on carb adjustment for the r1. the info is in section 6-11

this is not the way my carbs are adjusted. mine are adjust by float height when the carbs are basically turned upside down. now if youd still like i can demonstrate that procedure but im not sure if it applies to r1 carbs in the same manner. this is because the bottom of the bowls dont sit parallel to the ground like my side draft carbs do. there is a line on the side of the r1 bowls that is supposed to sit parallel to the ground and the fuel is supposed to sit a certain distance beneath that line. there is a tool noted in that pdf that you use. i honestly/ personally dont know if there is a alternative to adjust floats on your carbs, most likely but i've never had my hands on down draft bike carbs except to clean them. im sure if some one could take measurements off their r1 carbs in a similar manner of how you adjust mine it could be done like mine but i am not sure. 

let me know.

Edit: bad gas with a lot of water in it equals burned up $110 holley pump Stupid valero gas stations.

Also Exton i love your cabbys look.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> ok, pnavarro
> 
> i found this pdf ( http://www.r1messagenet.com/howto/manuals/YZFR1-98.pdf ) on carb adjustment for the r1. the info is in section 6-11
> 
> ...


Awesome dude, I'll read it as soon as I get home. Thanks! :thumbup:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

im having trouble with drawing water in through my filters in heavy rain or driving behind people on wet roads so this is my next project in store. 

i know the 3d drawing isnt hollow but everything will probably be made of 3/16" aluminum. I dont know if the design is even that good i will show one of my teachers and get their opinion on the design. the plenum opening is about 600mm^2 larger than all four throttle plates combined so i know it wont be choking down on air at all. i would like to have someone that uses solidworks maybe redraw it and have some flow simulations done on it. all in all if it isnt choking much air from the further two cylinders then ill probably use it anyway. its not like it will be under any pressure so i dont think there will be much of a problem with material. oh and it will have stacks in it. im not 100% sure if i want the back plate where it mounts to the carbs to be detachable or not. still planning it out.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

going to be putting the carbs on my truck within the next few weeks. anyone have the picture that was on page 1 i 2 about what needs to be capped off on the r1 carbs? the picture is no longer hosted in here...


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

bmxguy said:


> going to be putting the carbs on my truck within the next few weeks. anyone have the picture that was on page 1 i 2 about what needs to be capped off on the r1 carbs? the picture is no longer hosted in here...


I think that nothing should be capped, for sake of the operation of the carbs... I mean, the manuals for that bike don't show anything capped.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

hmmm wierd. i thought the picture showed quite a few things capped. are you running yours with everything open?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

bmxguy said:


> hmmm wierd. i thought the picture showed quite a few things capped. are you running yours with everything open?


I ran it with both breathers capped, but... I wanted to test if it would be the same without caps, and it was, so I left them all open.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

All of my breathers are open but thats about to change. once i get things mounted and build my intake plenum ill have to have all of them reference my manifold pressure.


----------



## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

Haven't had time to work on mine for a few months now due to moving across country for work, but I almost got my MSD 6al-2 installed today. Only thing is I don't know what wire to tap into from the hall sensor for the input to the box, anyone know?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Nice! The wire for the hall effect input is the white/blue.


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## blupuick (Feb 18, 2007)

pnavarro said:


> Nice! The wire for the hall effect input is the white/blue.


 Right, on the MSD wiring. Do you know what it is on the cars wiring from the plug on the hall effect sensor itself? I have found a bunch of diagrams online but nothing that gives me a definite answer. I believe it is the center red/black wire.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

How Did we decide to fix this problem?


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Damn! This is tiiiiight! :what:


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

Which car is that from? i NEED one, hope to have the car running for Eurowerks 5


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

I've seen them for vw's at regular vw spare part shops!


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

Well if anyone is interested in a Carb'd ABA cabby I will unfortunately be putting mine up on the market soon.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

For the record, that Dizzy cap is from a 95' Saab 900 2.3L Non-Turbo


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Any price on that dizzy cap? 

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

40 F***ing dollars. and it took 2 days to track one down... from a Stealership


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Damn. EBay here I come


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Alright, so the carbs need deep cleaning, if I were to disassemble them and boil the main bodies... really BOIL them... should I do it only with water or with some other house hold cleaning agent? I read that they could be boiled with lemon juice, for that extra cleaning power... would you or should another cleaner be used?

Please advise!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

pnavarro said:


> Alright, so the carbs need deep cleaning, if I were to disassemble them and boil the main bodies... really BOIL them... should I do it only with water or with some other house hold cleaning agent? I read that they could be boiled with lemon juice, for that extra cleaning power... would you or should another cleaner be used?
> 
> Please advise!


Ill look when I get home, but I believe ive read to use vinegar of some sort.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

I'm havin trouble getting spark. Anybody have any tips? Running R1 carbs on a PL 1.8l 16v with the Saab Dizzy in a MK1. i think i'm getting no voltage at the Hall effect plug do i need to do any custom wiring or modifications to the Dizzy plug?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

do you have the hall plug hooked up? if not thats probably the problem. but yes, you have to modify the female connector on the on the saab dizzy or if you have the right male connector for it just cut and splice the wires where needed.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

the male plug from the MK1 hooked right up, do i have to switch wires around anyway?


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

Need to do some fine tuning on the carbs, anyone with a wideband in the general south central PA area? Or someone that is willing to travel?

I have beer :beer:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> Ill look when I get home, but I believe ive read to use vinegar of some sort.


Arrived home yet? :laugh:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

pnavarro said:


> Arrived home yet? :laugh:


https://docs.google.com/fileview?id...kNi00ZDJlLWJkYzctYTYwYjlhNTM0MDEw&hl=en&pli=1

thats for a yamaha xj600, but it describes cleaning the carbs on the first page using apple cider vinegar.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> https://docs.google.com/fileview?id...kNi00ZDJlLWJkYzctYTYwYjlhNTM0MDEw&hl=en&pli=1
> 
> thats for a yamaha xj600, but it describes cleaning the carbs on the first page using apple cider vinegar.


Awesome, should hit walmart very soon then. Thanks!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

pnavarro said:


> Awesome, should hit walmart very soon then. Thanks!


no problem. it looks like it works well. i would just heed his warning about not letting the stuff dry on. I havt done it, so i cant say what would happen, but no sense in finding out.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

If it hooked right up then no.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

Hey, just wanted to thank all the regular posters in this thread. I Started my car around 2pm today for the first time and drove it to it's first car show. it was really nice to see everybody checking out the nontraditional swap. anyway. here's the pics. thanks again.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

that is a sweet rabbit. Glad you were able to get your bike carbed ride on the road


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## GLIguy85 (Jul 13, 2008)

what jets are people using?

it seems like there is quite a range of what is working for different people


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## ca180 (Jun 19, 2011)

So I've read pretty much every single post in this thread and didn't see what I'm looking for...

Does anyone know if I can use the stock mechanical fuel pump to run bike carbs? Will I still need a FPR?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Mechanical fuel pump as in? Diesel fuel pump? That's the only mechanical fuel pump I know off on VW. Idk what carb'd mk1s came with but I'm pretty sure they were all electric fuel pumps.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> Mechanical fuel pump as in? Diesel fuel pump? That's the only mechanical fuel pump I know off on VW. Idk what carb'd mk1s came with but I'm pretty sure they were all electric fuel pumps.


Well, I remember seeing a mechanical pump on a 1.6... 1.7 jetta mk1 engine, I'm quite sure of that, similar to the one the old boxer beetle engines used to have... I don't know how many psi those pumps generate, but... why not test it?


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## ca180 (Jun 19, 2011)

86Franklin said:


> Mechanical fuel pump as in? Diesel fuel pump? That's the only mechanical fuel pump I know off on VW. Idk what carb'd mk1s came with but I'm pretty sure they were all electric fuel pumps.


I have a 1.3 crossflow in a MK2... has a cam driven mechanical fuel pump.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

Specs on mechanical fuel pump may be in the bently for that model. otherwise you could look at replacements for that fuel pump. they may list the spec.


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## ca180 (Jun 19, 2011)

Yeah, I didn't see any specs on pressure... I did, however, notice that this carb/motor setup has not only a mechanical fuel pump that's obviously carb friendly, but it also has a fuel reservoir with a return line (and I would assume a carb friendly pressure regulator). So it would appear that if I were to find a way to retain the reservoir (it attaches the the 2E3) then I should be set. Not only that, but I am also at an advantage because I've already got a vacuum dizzy...

Now I just need to find some carbs. I had won a set of CBR600 carbs, but the guy refunded my money because it appeared that a former employee helped himself to them when he quit. Oh well... I believe they would have under fueled the car anyways since I'm hoping to throw a cam on there as well...

So would it be safe to assume that CBR900 carbs would suffice with a 1.3 and a mild cam? Or should I man up and get R1 carbs?


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

ca180 said:


> So would it be safe to assume that CBR900 carbs would suffice with a 1.3 and a mild cam? Or should I man up and get R1 carbs?


That question is rhetorical. Yes you should absolutely just go for the R1 carbs. 

Being said I have developed an issue with the warmer weather. I have fuel coming out of the barometric pressure tubes on the top of the carbs, and out the bottom under the intakes. I turned down the pressure but assume its most likely that the needles are going to need adjusted to lower the level of fuel in the bowls. Its not a gusher but it is occurring while idling. Refresh my memory do I need to move them up or down a notch or two to drop the level in the bowls?




GLIguy85 said:


> what jets are people using?
> 
> it seems like there is quite a range of what is working for different people


I run 170 Jets with a TT 270 cam on my ABA R1 set up. Does me well, but if you go up in cam you will need larger jets to fuel it. I just bought a crap load and kept going up in size till it ran, but it also depends on who manufactures the jets. I went with Keihn because they were cheaper than the the Mikuni's, but they have a different flow rate and spray pattern from what the dealer told me so 170 may not work the same based on manufacturer. 

Sorry no simple answer, they are bike carbs on VW's you just need to keep messing with stuff till you find the right combination. Hope that helps. :thumbup:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Exton_Dubs said:


> That question is rhetorical. Yes you should absolutely just go for the R1 carbs.


you serious? You realize he typed 1.3L, not 1.8L. I make 150 crank on the cbr 900's, I guarantee he will never see that number on a 1.3L unless it revs to 12k


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Shh didn't know you were running a 1.3l, that makes sense.


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## Exton_Dubs (Jul 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> you serious? You realize he typed 1.3L, not 1.8L. I make 150 crank on the cbr 900's, I guarantee he will never see that number on a 1.3L unless it revs to 12k


My bad, ABA swap it and then throw on R1 carbs.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Even if he used the 1.3 engine, he might not even have to drill the main jets!


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## ca180 (Jun 19, 2011)

Well, there won't be any engine swappin unless a VR6 stumbles drunkenly on my door step... then I will happily take advantage of her! 

Otherwise, the 1.3 is where it's at.

So, I was thinking that with CBR900 carbs I should be set without jetting.... but most of the CBR carbs I've found on eGay look mighty shady. Seems the trumpets are fragile? Most of them have nicks and whatnot out of them. Don't feel game for shawdy parts. But the R1 carbs are just out of my price range..

Unfortunately being here in Germany I don't have connections with welders... and I left my MIG back in the states. Soooooo.... Don't really know where I'm gonna get the adapter made from... And the 1.3 intake doesn't look chop friendly. It's possible, but it looks like a major PITA.

Anyhow, glad to see this thread is still goin


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

yeayeayea said:


> you serious? You realize he typed 1.3L, not 1.8L. I make 150 crank on the cbr 900's, I guarantee he will never see that number on a 1.3L unless it revs to 12k


 Yea but think about R1(1.0L)< 1.3L. He does have a bigger motor then what those carb come on. And what this guy VVVV said.



pnavarro said:


> Even if he used the 1.3 engine, he might not even have to drill the main jets!


----------



## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

the cbr trumpets are thin aluminum, but they can be straightened out pretty easily


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

Bump! Now that i have my carbs installed and everything is running without leaking, what's the strategy for tuning something like this? i'll leave the question open ended in case there are different ideas.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

well you can by a wideband...haha. or if you know someone with an exhaust probe you could go that route but it wont be as accurate. check the plugs after a good long and hard run is what i did. its not the best way but atleast you know you arent burning up the engine or running rich. i personally would love to get a wideband and think that is the best way but it also depends on how much cash you want to fork out.


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## chuckv8 (Aug 19, 2011)

*FZR 600 carbs*

Hi. Has anyone seen or has already built the carbs of FZR 600 (32mm) Flatslide, in the 1.8 8 valve engine? Thanks.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Update on my project had my car running on the R1 carbs on a jh/aba hybrid motor a while back in this thread loved it and it kicked ass. so i wanted more power and needed more room for my idea. so i tore the bitch apart bought a heavily ported aba head and im going to a full aba set up stock compression with a bigger cam for a little while before the next stage. Anyways i finally got off my ass the last couple days and tinkered with it. Got my alternator bracket modified so my carbs have plenty of clearence over the alternator now i just need to figure out my plumbing for my coolant system and make my manifold adapter. Plan on getting all of that done next week.


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## HiFiLongboards (May 13, 2010)

86Franklin said:


> well you can by a wideband...haha. or if you know someone with an exhaust probe you could go that route but it wont be as accurate. check the plugs after a good long and hard run is what i did. its not the best way but atleast you know you arent burning up the engine or running rich. i personally would love to get a wideband and think that is the best way but it also depends on how much cash you want to fork out.


what should i physically change to make the car run richer or leaner? is there an adjustment on the carbs or am i limited to jet tuning. it seems as though none of the jets are adjustable, just replaceable.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Your main jets are the only way to adjust your top end and your needle hieght for the mid range for the bottom end however at least on my 98 R1 carbs i have screws at the bottom endd of the carbs that are a fuel mixture adjustment.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Heres my new intake adapter...Its kind of rough... It only took me an hour to put together so its nothing fancy. its more for function than anything else....Would fit in great for the ratrodder crowd. :beer:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

chuckv8 said:


> Hi. Has anyone seen or has already built the carbs of FZR 600 (32mm) Flatslide, in the 1.8 8 valve engine? Thanks.


 i missed this post sorry. no one in this thread has done this build that i am aware of. is it possible? sure. but personal id try to stick to carbs 38mm and up. remember that 600cc's is less than half the displacement of the 1.8. not saying it wouldnt work or run well, because combined TB size is still larger than the stock single TB. but the larger carbs will offer more room to grow into with the engine.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Heres my new intake adapter...Its kind of rough... It only took me an hour to put together so its nothing fancy. its more for function than anything else....Would fit in great for the ratrodder crowd. :beer:


 looks pretty good to me. my entire car is based on functionality thats why it looks like butt but runs pretty good. 

also your timing belt is off  :laugh: and some valve cover nuts.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

86Franklin said:


> looks pretty good to me. my entire car is based on functionality thats why it looks like butt but runs pretty good.
> 
> also your timing belt is off  :laugh: and some valve cover nuts.


 You forgot to mention i have the wrong bolts in let alone enough to hold my intake adapter on...Oh and the head isnt torqued yet...LOL:laugh:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I should have the beast up and running tomorrow. i got my alternator hooked up and found a belt for it hooked up and rigged up coolant lines for everything! Now i just need to get my hose to connect the carbs to my adapter and bolt some s**t up and torque down the head!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

MKIGTITDI said:


> I should have the beast up and running tomorrow. i got my alternator hooked up and found a belt for it hooked up and rigged up coolant lines for everything! Now i just need to get my hose to connect the carbs to my adapter and bolt some s**t up and torque down the head!


Nice! Pics ensue!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

yes and vids as always well see if a crossflow ported with a smaller cam pulls harder than a counterflow with a hotter cam.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

hey MKI what size freeze plug did you use for the block breather, block off?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I can look im actually thinking of putting the breether tower back on but im still not sure.
Quik update too ive got the carbs all in but im going to have to cowl out my hood in order to make room for future plans.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Looking good! and if you could look at the size that would be great. I'm about ready to make a block off plate with some smaller fittings so I can run a catch can. I have a feeling its 35mm but I'd like to know before i take if off so i can get it done asap.


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## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

Just bough some kawasaki carbs. Not sure how well they will work. The car is currently a digi2 16V swap. I plan on building an ABF clone out of a block and head I have sitting arround. I just have a question I read allot about an 02 sensor in this thread but i couldn't find out where its being plugged into?I plan on doing a MSD 6a ignition.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Ill measure it up for you tomorrow.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

thanks. that would be awesome. the wideband 02 sensor is just plugging into a a/f gauge since there is no computer. like this http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=6UBoTo7kK-Tj0QHRiq32Cw&ved=0CFUQ8wIwAQ


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Franklin i take your reffering to the plug directly under my knock sensor. if so its actually a 40mm plug.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Yeah. And thanks for measuring that.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yup im going to add a 2" cowl to my hood off of the exsisting lines in it. It should give it that hotrod look of the 70's...LOL:beer:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

I think i can picture what you're talking about. should be pretty cool.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Then again i may just go for the subaru looking scoop on the front im very undecided right now. Whats the rest of the vortex/carb crowd think?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

i say post some ideas and the we can vote


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Lets start the voting!!!
So either make the hood kind of like this minus the center rib.








Or cut a hole out over the carbs and weld this sucker in its place over the carbs...


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

I kinda like the forward facing hood scoop.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Im going to test fit it on the hood and if i dont like it im going to cowl it out. I was thinking the car would look sick especially if you can see the carbs ect from outside the car rather than think that cars gay its got a cowled hood for no reason.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

mine has sat basically undriven since bugout 69 back in may. Time to wake the beast and get it ready for h2o


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Allrighty so an update got my car all put together only to have my fresh head have 3 intake valves that dont seat properly. so i sent it back to the machine shop and should have it back by monday and have the beast running by tuesday by the latest. Ill let you know the difference between a jh/aba hybrid on carbs compared to a full aba motor on carbs. Im guessing im the only person here thats run both set ups in the same car now...LOL


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Nice! Love the hood


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

pnavarro said:


> Nice! Love the hood


:thumbup: looking good. sucks that the head was messed up. and im jealous of you scirocco


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Thank you franklin also im thinking that if this works out well i may be going to a bigger cam....Until i boost it at least. Im also reccomending this to people that want to swap an aba into their mk1 but dont want the hassle of changing out their wiring ect.


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## formerfreeagent (Oct 9, 2007)

Guys I have a 16v R1 Carb Setup for sale. Its posted in the classifieds. 350 obo. Its a complete setup. If you are considering doing this conversion JUMP on this!!! Super cheap and its done right!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So i got ****ty news but have mad props to give as well! My head got jacked in Bend, Oregon so if you see a ported 8v aba head thats freshley built let me know. But the propsare going out to jason from bahn brenner motorsports. I bought the head from him and he was getting it back to me before it was stolen and hes stepping up to build me a brand new aba head with all the goodies and a tt 288* cam in it!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

That sucks man. Sorry to hear about that. But its pretty sweet that bbm is doing that. 

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Thats the thing its not even bbm. they werent involved with this transaction at all thats just where he worked. I think that these actions speak of his integrity and i imagine theyd be the same.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Still nice that they have stand up guys that work for them.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah so ill always reccomend bahn brenner to anybody needing parts or work done for their boosted projects!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Got the new head on tried to crank it and nothing....So i decided when i set my timing i never checked my rotor to see if my intermidiate shaft had moved....It was 180* out...so i fixed it and it literally cranked twice and fired. It sounds f-ing awesome!!!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Got the new head on tried to crank it and nothing....So i decided when i set my timing i never checked my rotor to see if my intermidiate shaft had moved....It was 180* out...so i fixed it and it literally cranked twice and fired. It sounds f-ing awesome!!!


:thumbup:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Only downside of it running with it being a brand new head the lifters are loud as hell!


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## RAB-817 (Dec 13, 2010)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Only downside of it running with it being a brand new head the lifters are loud as hell!


They do that  
I freaked out when i put new lifters in for the first time the other week!!!

I just ran it for 5 mins on idle, turned key off. Checked for any leaks ect, turned it back on a the ticking was gone 

Good effort on the new engine, Taken it for a drive yet?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

just to work and back but i need to play with my distributor a bit mor. lifters quieted down a little bit but their still noisey. Cant expect much else with it being a fresh head though.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Only downside of it running with it being a brand new head the lifters are loud as hell!


did you let em soak in oil for a few days before installing em?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I have no idea if they had soaked in oil. The head was stripped down surfaced hot tanked and assembled at a machine shop in Bend in a 3 day window.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So one of my caps blew off on a dig to somewhere past 100mph so im going to go to the K&N filters like 86franklin has in the near future. Im waiting on one of my dads old buddies to send me my new subi scoop to weld onto my hood. Then itll be done for a while till i can get a turbo manifold intercooler and turbo for a good deal one of these days...If i do it to soon my wife will literally divorce me over this car/project...LOL


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## RAB-817 (Dec 13, 2010)

yeayeayea said:


> did you let em soak in oil for a few days before installing em?


always mixed opinions on doing this, 

i reckon if you have good oil pressure they will fill up in no time  you cant do any damage to them in the time it takes to fill them, and what sorta dick would rev the snot out of a cold engine anyway :screwy:

i let mine idle for 3-4 mins, turned off and waited 3-4 mins, then started it back up, lifter noise gone.

Good work on getting it going well mate, whens the hood scoop going on??


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Im thinking i need to readjust my floats in 3 and 4 their flooding out and overflowing and flooding out my motor till its warmed up. My son is trying to help me figue it out.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm still fighting my flooding issues. I'm starting to think I shouldn't have switched from my counter-flow setup to full ABA at this point. Give me a week to sort my issues out and I'll be ok. Especially once I go to boost it.:beer:


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## Noodleboy (Mar 2, 2006)

want to do now!!!!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Well, I'm still around! :laugh:

My bike carb'd ABA still doesn't run, I still don't have my manifold welded, and it doesn't look like that will happening too terribly soon. Glad to see this thread still going and wish I had something to add to it. Wait! maybe I do? Ran across this in the Cabriolet forum and don't recall seeing it here. Here's a good link for info on wiring up the knock box ignition setup: http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/techtips/engine/knocksensor/

So, as to why mine won't be running any time reasonably soon...in the process of trying to sell my Wrangler to fund the Cabby an interesting trade was offered up. So, now my mostly complete VRT MK2 Jetta is the main focus to have some fun before selling to fund the Cabby build. Wish me luck and no boost addiction!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Can't figure out why one of my floats won't close hoping once I figure that out my car will be operational again.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

take it out and put it in a bowl of water! one of mine did the same thing. it was cracked but i couldnt tell by just looking at it. good chance its cracked. also look at the rubber seal on the shut off needle thing that the float actuates it might be in bad shape.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I'm thinking I'm going to not be a cheap ass and buy a replacement float and needle seal kit.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

cheap haha my one float cost 38 dollars just by itself... i was pissed.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

*K&N Filters...??????*

I keep reading through this thread (more like scanning at this point) and can't seem to find the post about which K&N filters to get for the R1 carbs.

Anyone help? So close to starting this bad boy up
























:beer:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

pod or dual(like weber filters)?


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

I think I would prefer dual. They look like they have a shallower profile. However a part # for both would be OK.


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

funpig said:


> However a part # for both would be OK.


the thing is for a part number i would need to know some measurements off your carbs or you can do it yourself. Here is a link to K&N's universal filters by measurement. http://www.knfilters.com/universal/universal.htm once you click on a style you like in the upper right hand corner it shows you what you need to measure.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Im still having sealing issues in one of the bowls thats not shutting all the way checked it in a bowl of both fuel and water and in both it stays afloat as well as if i try to hold it under the surface theres no bubbles coming from it. My fuel pressure is only at 3 psi and i just replaced the plunger that attatches to the float and im still not able to get the one carb to shut off. Do i just take a gun and put a bullet in it or what?
:banghead::banghead:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

check to make sure it moves freely maybe its binding or something :/ what carb is it?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

It goes to my number 4 cylinder so the far right if your looking at them. I was thinking about it and this is the same carb that was giving me problems when i was running counterflow initially and was acting up from time to time.


----------



## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

*vacuum port for vacuum advance dizzy on ABA*

The only thing I have left to hook up before the initial start is my vacuum advanced distributor. I have been told that I need to get vacuum right at the butterflys rather than lower in the stream near the head where I am getting vacuum for my brake booster. Can anyone tell me if/where on the R1 carbs there is a vacuum port that I can pull from????? 
Thanks in advance.
MikeB

:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer:


----------



## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

funpig said:


> The only thing I have left to hook up before the initial start is my vacuum advanced distributor. I have been told that I need to get vacuum right at the butterflys rather than lower in the stream near the head where I am getting vacuum for my brake booster. Can anyone tell me if/where on the R1 carbs there is a vacuum port that I can pull from?????
> Thanks in advance.
> MikeB


mine is pulling from the same source for my brake booster near the head.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

MKIGTITDI said:


> It goes to my number 4 cylinder so the far right if your looking at them. I was thinking about it and this is the same carb that was giving me problems when i was running counterflow initially and was acting up from time to time.


i know its a pain but try switching floats around to see if it moves to a different carb.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

I kind of already did i started in number 3 and i tried it in number 4 and now my number 4 isnt working right.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

hmm did you switch just the float or plunger too? also it sounds like it has to do with float components if it changed when you switched them around....also have you looked at when the plunger seats compared to a carb that doesnt have the flooding issue? (idk if you know what i mean so i try to describe it.) take off the bowls of two carbs, preferably right next to each other. start rotating the carbs backwards so the floats start going up. pay close attention to the plungers as to when they stop moving and start to depress the springy thing on the end. (haha i dont know what to call it.) anyway if the carb that is flooding takes longer to seat the plunger than the one that doesnt then adjust the metal tab on the float to have it close at the same time. 

im sure youve already looked at that, but i just thought id throw it out there cause sometimes i forget to do things that should be one of the first things checked when im trying to figure out why they dont work. 

anyway my car will be going to sleep for the winter soon and im picking up a 2.7t A6 quattro tomorrow for winter


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

Franklin... it was explained to me that unless I pull vacuum for the distributor close to the butterflys then at idle the distributor will be fine but as soon as I put on some throttle it will go full retard. On the CIS the vacuum for the dizzy is pulled right at the edge of the butterfly in the throttle body.


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## FROZEN337 (Sep 12, 2005)

Filters I used for a bit, UNI PK52, worked great. Till I messed two up!

Vacuum, I have mine close to the head for clearance and it works great. 

Pig, love the camo on your car! 

If anyone is going to the Harrisburg (PA) Toys4Tots tomorrow, I might have the Jetta there. If the wife will drive the MKIV... 

If anyone has questions, hit me up. I've had mine running for a long time and can answer most questions.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

mine seems to be fine pulling from close to the head. i honestly couldnt tell you if it jumps to full advance or not once i give it some throttle. but there is absolutely no hesitation at all from my engine through out the rev range and no knock that i can hear. i guess to me what is 1.5 inches of runner going to do when the runners total length is 3.5 inches from head to the throttle plate? (minus the inlet opening to valve opening.) on a stock 8v intake the closet runner to the TP is atleast 8 inches or longer (guesstimating) which may show a difference in the vacuum timing advance. idk though...


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

So my rack of carbs has something seriously wrong with them ive even taken them to a bike mechanic that went through them and said nothing was wrong. put them on the car and same damned problem so im going to scrap this rack and buy a new rack to see if that solves my problem. if so then ill have a great set for stealing parts from for the future.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

hmm.. but good luck with the new rack good thing bike carbs are terribly expensive


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

*The never ending journey to R1 hooning!!*


the car

(click on pic to hear it if you want)
Finally got the pig up and running. It took far too much to get started. Needs the air restricted in front of the carbs too much. Actually had to cover them with my forearm as my brother turned the thing over. But once it was up and running it seemed ok except the sporadic knock that would occur once in awhile. So... shut it all down and noticed there seemed to be a bit of fuel coming out of port #2. 









Pulled the plug. Shine flashlight into hole. WTF?!?!?!?! Now I know why the car that this motor was in went to the junkyard. Tried to dislodge it with an iron rod and hammer. No luck. Tomorrow after work I am pulling the head to see what this random piece of metal may be. This has been quite the ordeal but the end is near... gonna have it on the streets soon.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

FROZEN337 said:


> Filters I used for a bit, UNI PK52, worked great. Till I messed two up!
> 
> Vacuum, I have mine close to the head for clearance and it works great.
> 
> ...


Wish I'd have seen this sooner, I was at the Hbg T4T. Dropped my manifold off with Howie from HE Performance to have it welded up, while I was there. Enough dicking around, this has been holding me up for quite some time. I'm not going to be playing with a VRT MK2 in the snow, anyways.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Finally! It's only taken like a eyar and a half to finally get these things mounted on my engine! A huge thanks to Howie at HE Performance (www.heperformance.com) for his fantastic welding work!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Wow! That's a nice looking manifold!! Wish mine was aluminum sometimes. But right now I'm contemplating on converting to rwd or going turbo..only thing is I'll have to buy a new trans either way....


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Beautiful :thumbup:


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

That is the manifold that I dream of.:screwy: What runners did you use to get that all to fit? Looks GREAT!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

funpig said:


> That is the manifold that I dream of.:screwy: What runners did you use to get that all to fit? Looks GREAT!


Runners are pieces of Porshce 928 intake runners. 










Swapped a engine in one at the shop I worked at a few years ago and picked up the spare intake to hang on the wall in the garage, or something, and this wound up being the perfect "or something" for portions of the runners. 

Just popped on today to look back through here at the throttle cable setups you guys are running. I got my fuel line finished and my choke cable run last weekend. Going to Blowes or Home Despot later today and want to see if I need anything while I'm there. 

Here's a few more pics of what's done.


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## hazelscum666 (Jul 25, 2011)

bump


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## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

What is everybody running for ignition modules?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Ajaxpowder said:


> What is everybody running for ignition modules?


8V MK2 GTI knock sensor setup.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Hey whats everybody with aba set ups running for their jet size?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

MKIGTITDI said:


> Hey whats everybody with aba set ups running for their jet size?


Yes, please!! Cleaning and freshening of the carbs and building on a throttle cable bracket are close on the list.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

With my set up im going to try some 175 mains to see if their dialed. 200 are way to big for the aba set up from the counterflow 2l set up.


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## Colbskee (Nov 17, 2011)

Im planning on running some R1 carbs on my 1.8 8v. What size jet should i start with? 

Carbs are off an 01 i believe.


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Start around 165's if i remember. Anything done to the head? porting big cam ect?


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## Colbskee (Nov 17, 2011)

head is all stock right now. I plan to get another head and do some porting and valve grind etc. as well as a cam. I want to have it running on the carbs by summer.. :/


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## hyperformancevw (Mar 15, 2007)

start with whatever your approximate hp is. so if you feel you should be around 160 crank hp, try a 160-165 jet to get you close. The more honest you are with yourself the closer you will be also:laugh:


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Yeah I don't know about the jets to crank up. If you watch my videos of my set up when I was running my high cr ABA/JH hybrid I was running 2.00 mains.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

hyperformancevw said:


> start with whatever your approximate hp is. so if you feel you should be around 160 crank hp, try a 160-165 jet to get you close. The more honest you are with yourself the closer you will be also:laugh:


yaaa i dont know about the hp/jet size you stated.



MKIGTITDI said:


> Yeah I don't know about the jets to crank up. If you watch my videos of my set up when I was running my high cr ABA/JH hybrid I was running 2.00 mains.


not to diss your motor but to help prove my point, this aba/jh even with a high CR and a fat cam will only put out 110-120 whp and was using 2.00 main jets. hp to your jet size is irrelevant, each motor is different and will take different jets needle hieghts etc etc between motor and motor. get wideband. dont have the money? narrow band to atleast get a bseline.


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## Ajaxpowder (Oct 10, 2010)

anybody have ideas for an ignition box that would let me use a crank trigger and individual coil packs?:heart:

EDIT: will be using a MSD migit DIS system!


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

bmxguy said:


> not to diss your motor but to help prove my point, this aba/jh even with a high CR and a fat cam will only put out 110-120 whp and was using 2.00 main jets. hp to your jet size is irrelevant, each motor is different and will take different jets needle hieghts etc etc between motor and motor. get wideband. dont have the money? narrow band to atleast get a bseline.


None taken i hope to get onto a dyno with my new set up here soon once its dialed in a little bit. I was kind of using my set up to say i know i was no where close to 200 hp to the crank out of my old set up.

On a side note once i can get the funds together to put together my own custom turbo kit make a plenum ect. for my carb set up im planning on dialling it to the tune a 200whp. From what ive been told with doing that i should end up running about 1.35-1.40 main jets at that point. Look at my build thread.


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## Colbskee (Nov 17, 2011)

Well.. I bought some Carbs today. Going to start collecting parts.


















in this next pic, the choke slider is missing a screw. so far that is the only thing i can see that is missing from these.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Finally, a vid from my VW Pointer on R1 carbs.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Colbskee said:


> in this next pic, the choke slider is missing a screw. so far that is the only thing i can see that is missing from these.


Not missing anything, they just don't have a screw there. The carb bodies are all the same, they just didn't see a need for one there. My carbs don't have that screw, either, and upon closer inspection the threads don't look like they've ever had a screw in them. :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Finally, a vid from my VW Pointer on R1 carbs.


Get a windshield for that thing! :laugh:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Get a windshield for that thing! :laugh:


No!


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

Love the video... funny my interior looks almost identical minus the broken windshield. :thumbup:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

funpig said:


> Love the video... funny my interior looks almost identical minus the broken windshield. :thumbup:


 :thumbup: broken windshield gives it personality!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

So I was out in the garage looking longingly at my Cabby project the other day and just lookign around to remind myself what all needs addressed yet. While doing this an idea popped into my head, though I'm not sure if it is actually feasible or not. 

My eyes fell upon the broken off end on the purge/evap hose back to the fuel tank, and I wondered if connecting the float bowl vents to this might not be the "proper emissions happy" way to do things. Now, my dilemma here is whether or not I'm understanding the purpose of this hose properly. I'm thinking that this hose was used to purge the charcoal canister when an abundance of vapor build-up occurred, releasing it back to the fuel tank. Is this correct? If so, wouldn't it make sense to vent the float bowls back to the tank? Or would this cause a vacuum to form in the float bowl due to the level change in the fuel tank? Isn't there a tank vent in the filler neck/cap to balance that out? 

Just some rambling thoughts from a man without enough parts or money, but plenty of time to over think his project. :laugh::beer:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Well my cabby has a return gas line. And you could technically use it, but if your floats are working properly at the right fuel pressure it will never use it. Now if you are running a high pressure pump with a low pressure regulator like the Holley one. You could use one of the two outs to return it to the tank. All in all if everything is working right how its supposed to be it wouldn't be used.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

My return line is being used with an Aeromotive bypass regulator. I'm talking about the smaller, flexible vent line, the third line back to the tank. I found out it's actually to vent the excess fuel vapors from the tank into the engine to be burned when vacuum conditions, etc are right for it. I've seen some mention of guys running small charcoal canisters from Ducatis to keep them easy to hide away. I'm going to look a little more into what ports do what on the carbs and will prob end up running a small canister of some sort. I plan to do track events and the like with the car, so making sure fuel won't dump everywhere in a worst case scenario is a concern. I'll be sure to keep everyone posted as I figure out more. I haven't gone overboard on my bay shaving, so i still have plenty of original EVAP line holes in the inner fenders to hide things like the factory originally had them. :thumbup:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

I know what you're talking about I but I don't think I have one and if I do I don't see it anywhere. But I'm sure you could use it for what you are wanting to do. On most carbed motorcycles they just ran vent lines to the bottom of the bike and let it go on the ground if it did.

Edit: I am most familiar with older bikes like 70-80's but I know a 96 zx-6 is the same way.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> I know what you're talking about I but I don't think I have one and if I do I don't see it anywhere. But I'm sure you could use it for what you are wanting to do. On most carbed motorcycles they just ran vent lines to the bottom of the bike and let it go on the ground if it did.
> 
> Edit: I am most familiar with older bikes like 70-80's but I know a 96 zx-6 is the same way.


Oh, hell, my '82 Cabby had an overflow-less radiator setup in it. No expansion tank, it just dumps on the ground.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Dudes, I need advice... an acquaintance is asking for help. He has an MkII Jetta, 1.8L and I assume it's an 8 valver. He bought Mikuni BDST 32mm carbs off a Yamaha FZR600... I feel those would be too small... unless you say otherwise.

What can be told to this guy? To buy bigger carbs or to stick with them and drill the hell out of the main jets?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Any head work? If not, they would work. but if he plans on doing anything to the engine tell him to at least get 38-40mm carbs.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> Any head work? If not, they would work. but if he plans on doing anything to the engine tell him to at least get 38-40mm carbs.


I'm still trying to find out what he actually has got, so I'll keep you posted, thanks for the info!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Well, he's got 1.8L 8v engine, the guy said he'd be doing a big valve conversion, so I promptly convinced him to switch to the R1 carbs. So, welcome to the Mikuni family! :laugh:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

it still probably would've run. but he wouldnt have seen as much well anything, power and torque. lets just say this. the biggest valve tt sells for the 8v is 42mm. that is 10mm larger than the throttle plate on one carb. typically you want it to taper down.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> it still probably would've run. but he wouldnt have seen as much well anything, power and torque. lets just say this. the biggest valve tt sells for the 8v is 42mm. that is 10mm larger than the throttle plate on one carb. typically you want it to taper down.


So, what you're saying is that the 40's might have been overkill? Slight overkill? or extreme overkill?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

If he keeps original port size then they will be the same size. From what I understand you want it to taper down from the throttle plate to the valve. Honestly if he's just trying to have a sweet daily 40s will do everything he needs. But if he wants to make as much HP as he can out of this engine I'd say go bigger than 40s.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Here's a lil' video, testing the new camera. Enjoy.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

sounds great! thanks for sharing.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Ordered some individual chrome topped K&N filters for my setup, today! 3" diameter body, 2.5" filter element height, and a nice skinny 5/8" flange for the skinny little lip on the carbs. :thumbup: Should be in Monday or Tuesday, then I can test fit and post some pics!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Nice. Thinking about buying turbo stuff soon.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> Nice. Thinking about buying turbo stuff soon.


 I'm watching this!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Keyword "thinking". I'm up in the air if I want to chip my a6 or build a turbo engine for my rabbit which will obviously cost more


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzcVQ2a5WKk&feature=youtu.be


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzcVQ2a5WKk&feature=youtu.be


I had to go through and watch like 6 more bike carb videos to inspire me! Picking up my air filters later today. Here's hoping they clear the hood!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

I know what you mean haha. Now I just need to win the lottery haha


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Who was having problems with overflowing carbs? My #3 carb started spitting gas once again, so as it is time to clean and rebuild them, I unmounted them and see what was up.

I used silicone gasket maker to stop the flooding, as the original o-rings were too crushed. To make a long story short, today when I opened those float bowls, I saw that the silicone had begun to degrade... literally, I touched it and it just turned to jelly. It also had swollen, and swollen so much that it could have probably touched the floats, enough to prevent free movement, thus provoking the carb to spit gasoline.

So what's next? To buy new and original o-rings to seal the float bowls, or use less silicone (or rtv, I think it's called?)

This could be a possible solution to our overflowing carbs problem... 

Don't have pictures, except in fb, so if you want to see of what I speak, add me facebook.com/pablo.navarro


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

when my c arbs were overflowing, it was a result of too much fuel pressure, and too low of carb angle.


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## Aaron22 (May 21, 2008)

Great thread, lots of good info here... I have a couple questions though. I will eventually buy a jet kit and wideband to fine tune things, but what's a good starting point for jets for the following setup:

-2.0 16v block
-1.8 16v head
-zx6r carbs (36mm I believe)
-raceland header
-saab vacuum advance distributor

From what I've read, 160 mains is a good staring point?

I have an intake made up but haven't welded in bungs for vacuum yet. I have deleted my brake booster so I will only require vacuum for the dizzy. Should I place a bung in each intake runner? Does it matter where I position them?



















Thanks for all the info guys :thumbup::beer:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> when my c arbs were overflowing, it was a result of too much fuel pressure, and too low of carb angle.


I remember that, the video showing the carbs literally puking gas... :sly:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Nice looking project! Really no, AWESOME looking project!

160 for mains? I'd think they would be too small, unless recommended otherwise, why not start at 2mm?

As for vacuum from the runners, I think that there is no problem where you place the bungs... but I could be wrong...


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I would think 36mm is too small for a 2.0. Hell I have a sneaking suspicion that my 38mm carbs are too small for my 1.8


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## Aaron22 (May 21, 2008)

pnavarro said:


> Nice looking project! Really no, AWESOME looking project!
> 
> 160 for mains? I'd think they would be too small, unless recommended otherwise, why not start at 2mm?
> 
> As for vacuum from the runners, I think that there is no problem where you place the bungs... but I could be wrong...


Thanks:thumbup: Maybe I'll start a little bit bigger and go from there



yeayeayea said:


> I would think 36mm is too small for a 2.0. Hell I have a sneaking suspicion that my 38mm carbs are too small for my 1.8


Yeah, it's crossed my mind. 36mm should still flow better than stock though :screwy: Maybe my bro-science isn't quite accurate but if a bike motor can make ~180 hp on 42mm ish throttle bodies than shouldn't my 36mm carbs be able to flow enough for 150hp max?

edit: not disagreeing, just trying to understand this


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Aaron22 said:


> Thanks:thumbup: Maybe I'll start a little bit bigger and go from there
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Apples and oranges. 
It has more to do with the size of the thottle plates compaired to your intake valves.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

It actually has to do with both. Generally if you are making a high output NA you want the throttle plate size to taper down to the valve size. I would guess that in a 1300cc bike that both intake valves don't match or surpass the 42mm throttle plates. Where as running 36-40 mm carbs on any 16v would be tapering the opposite way I.e. valves large than throttle plate. Now for street driving this is fine but you will never see full potential from the engine.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Let me preface this by saying I am no expert.


On a liter bike, each cylinder theoretically pulls in .25L of air per intake stroke. 

This engine may make 150hp doing this 6,000 times a minute (12,000 rpm)

On a 2.0 L car, each cylinder theoretically pulls in .5L of air per intake stroke.

This engine may make 150hp doing this 3000 times a minute (6,000 rpm)

Therefore with half as many revs, and twice as much displacement per cylinder, it would seem that a car taking bigger gulps per intake would require larger throttle plates than a bike to make the same power.


All of this is open for debate, as I said before I am no expert.


Also remember that stock 1.8L 16v NA intake runners are 40mm, Stock 2.0L 16v NA intake runners are 42mm, and Eurospec 1.8L 16v KR intake runners are 50mm, with no throttle plate components robbing runner volume.. Now take a 36mm carb throat, subtract the cross sectional area of a throttle plate at WOT, plus any protruding jets or needle valves, and you can see how that fancy set of carbs may be doing more harm than good. Your mileage may vary.


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## Aaron22 (May 21, 2008)

yeayeayea said:


> Let me preface this by saying I am no expert.
> 
> 
> On a liter bike, each cylinder theoretically pulls in .25L of air per intake stroke.
> ...


Thank you, it seems I've forgotten that engine speed is important with regards to flow. I'm clearly not a powertrain guy :facepalm: I guess I'll continue with the zx6r carbs just to get the motor running then upgrade to something bigger once I get the funds/chance :beer:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

bike carbs are easy to come by an cheap, I would ditch those for something bigger before you start :thumbup:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Mother of carbs, I love this thread... :laugh:


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

so iv been sitting on all my carb stuff for too long waiting to put them on. all i need to purchase is jets and wideband (currently have narrow band for some kind of monitoring). i have r1 carbs of course  and they are going on a 1.8 16v, im thinking around 2.00 mains to start. what do you guys think? also will the carb fuel pump (carter whatever) operate fine off of cis pump wires? i dont see how they would cause problems but you never know. TIA for any input. :heart:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

bmxguy said:


> so iv been sitting on all my carb stuff for too long waiting to put them on. all i need to purchase is jets and wideband (currently have narrow band for some kind of monitoring). i have r1 carbs of course  and they are going on a 1.8 16v, im thinking around 2.00 mains to start. what do you guys think? also will the carb fuel pump (carter whatever) operate fine off of cis pump wires? i dont see how they would cause problems but you never know. TIA for any input. :heart:


I don't think you should buy additional jets... a friend has his 2.0L 16v with 2mm jets... you could start with... 1.8mm instead? and work your way up from there...


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I know on my cbr 900 carbs, I think i went with 1.73mm jets, and then played with needle heights to get it where I wanted it. Not saying that r1 and cbr carbs are apples to apples, but 2.0mm still sounds pretty hefty


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

The r1 carbs I have were previously run on a 20/20 set up and have 1.70's in them.


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

okay i think ill probably just get some 180s and start there. gunna cut up some manifold today. :thumbup:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmxguy said:


> okay i think ill probably just get some 180s and start there. gunna cut up some manifold today. :thumbup:


you can always drill larger. to go smaller, you have to solder the holes shut, then redrill. Not a permanent fix but allows you to go down a step for tuning if you overdrill.

May want to start at 160s if you have a 1.8 8v, 170 for the 16vs


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Bike carb related content just for fun  
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pOrrfBouEk&feature=youtu.be


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

i have a 1.8 16v. im not planning on drilling the jets. im going to get legit jets. also has anyone cut a stock 16v lower manifold to fit the carbs? i have one im ready to cut but it seems like it almost might not work. would like to be certain it will work.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> you can always drill larger. to go smaller, you have to solder the holes shut, then redrill. Not a permanent fix but allows you to go down a step for tuning if you overdrill.
> 
> May want to start at 160s if you have a 1.8 8v, 170 for the 16vs


I support this comment, 1.8 8v and I'm with 1.6mm...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

How about an ABA/crossflow 8V? I guess prob 160s, like the counterflow. Getting ready to go through my carbs and maybe make this beast run this year! Got my air filters and they fit great! K&N part number 62-1480.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

That looks beautiful 

160 seems about right to get started!


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## cabby85 (Feb 28, 2009)

got my 3/8" aluminum flange back today, fits like a glove im going to be using 1.75" O.D. aluminum pipe for the runners if i can find any. what thichness of tubing do you guys use for runners?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Sounds about right!


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Well 1.75" = 44.45mm. Stock bore of a 1.8 manifold is 40, and a 2.0 is 42, for 16v engines. That would only give you 1.225mm wall thickness if you wanted to maintain the 42mm ID.

also, bolt up the water neck and check it for clearance. I had to grind my intake manifold flange to clear the upper water neck


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

Does anybody have a schematic for there 16V intake manifold? I want to start cutting and building but I need some numbers first. I am getting carbs from a 98-2001 R1 (still hunting for a decent local set) 

Numbers I would like. 
Carb angle 
Engine angle (at mounting surface) 
Plenum spacing (Stock) 
Carb spacing 
Carb angle 

Also is there a choke for these carbs? :what:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

The only ones I'd be able to help you with is intake surface angle and spacing but I don't remember them of the top of my head. Also yes there's a choke.


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

86Franklin said:


> The only ones I'd be able to help you with is intake surface angle and spacing but I don't remember them of the top of my head. Also yes there's a choke.


 id love to get those numbers off you!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Dr.Steels said:


> Does anybody have a schematic for there 16V intake manifold? I want to start cutting and building but I need some numbers first. I am getting carbs from a 98-2001 R1 (still hunting for a decent local set)
> 
> Numbers I would like.
> Carb angle
> ...


Why local? I picked mine up off eBay for $117 shipped. No damage, just an apparently leaky float bowl. 

As for carb spacing, I built a jig out of muffler clamps to hold my runners for welding:



















As for choke, I used a Mr Gasket 6' choke cable and some Help! cable ends.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Great solution, I wish it were that easy for counterflow heads...


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...e01wvb26uSfmycP3g&sig2=0cF1VGsb9LcAmldtcf3dxw

Catalog part numbers for the Yamaha R1, pdf file. Good to have, in case you need to buy an specific part, for the carbs, mainly.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

just got my parts.

what are you guys doing about the dipstick? mine is in the way of the carbs:banghead:


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

*Dipstick.....*

On the ABA motor you might have to bend the tube a little forward to clear the carbs. Another thing to consider is maybe changing the dipstick tube and dipstick to an early 1.7 or 1.8 model dipstick and tube. They were much shorter than the newer motors. The setup looks good. Post more pics and vids once you have it all up and running. I have been DD mine now for a few months and it is FUN!:thumbup::thumbup:


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> just got my parts.
> 
> what are you guys doing about the dipstick? mine is in the way of the carbs:banghead:


who ended up making your manifold or did you find one already made?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> who ended up making your manifold or did you find one already made?


got it with the carbs as a package from another member on here. cleaned it up and painted it yesterday.









got my coolant hose worked out. and im waiting on a buddy to make a new alternator bracket.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> got my coolant hose worked out. and im waiting on a buddy to make a new alternator bracket.


what did you use as a hose coupler?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> what did you use as a hose coupler?


Plastic pieces from parts store that are designed for coolant hoses.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

just any local advance or napa? or like online parts store? I couldnt find anything local so I had to end up using a heavy metal drain extention from home depot that I cut and welded:facepalm:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> just any local advance or napa? or like online parts store? I couldnt find anything local so I had to end up using a heavy metal drain extention from home depot that I cut and welded:facepalm:


The only place in town that had them was o'relies. I went to NAPA, auto zone, pep boys, and a bunch of others. 









It even came with this:


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## littlesnides (Jul 20, 2002)

going to be doing cbr carbs on a 3A counterflow fox... 
Got everything digifant out... I'm guessing I'll have to do some rewiring to get power to my fuel pump and cluster. I haven't looked over the bentley for this part yet.

I have a question about the weir tech flange I plan to buy. The holes on my stock mani are just round without the cutouts for injectors in the manifold. (mine are in the head) Is it ok to use this manifold flange: 

http://www.weir-tech.com/volkswagen/volkswagen-8v-intake-head-flange-3/8-mild-steel/

Also was thinking about just jb welding some hose barbs into my old injector shrouds for my vacuum hookup. I know its cheap, but it should work these really don't see any pressure...

plan to use cis ignition and bike fuel pump.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


>


mother of god......



HERE IS A TIP FOR EVERYONE. 

Take your stock upper rad hose. Make one cut in it here:









Just above the alternator. 

Then take the end that would normally clamp to the water neck on the block, flip it, and then clamp it on. 

Connect the two halves, and viola, you have an upper rad hose, with only one splice, that will connect the ABF waterneck to the stock radiator.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> mother of god......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 couldnt get it to work like that. the fuel line on carbs was hitting it


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## littlesnides (Jul 20, 2002)

Apparently that intake manifold pictured is for crossflow, but they don't have it advertised as so from weir tech... Plan on calling tomorrow


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

littlesnides said:


> Apparently that intake manifold pictured is for crossflow, but they don't have it advertised as so from weir tech... Plan on calling tomorrow


Yes, was just about to post that. That flange is for ABA/crossflow 8V.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

where are you guys getting the fuel jets from?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

might want to check local yamaha dealers they might have some in stock, if not Motorcyclesuperstore is a great place to shop


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## vswords32 (Mar 14, 2007)

arrived yesterday:thumbup:


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

YJSAABMAN said:


> For those that asked, and just to whore something, since I haven't been able to get anything done on my car:


Couple of quick mani questions:

Is ANYBODY selling these 16v flanges?? Weir tech only has 8v one's and I've looked everywhere..

Also, it looks like the 16v runner spacing from the flange to the carb is the same, so you don't have to bend/angle the runner tubes (unlike the 8v's), correct?? That'll make fabricating the mani much easier with my limited fab skills. I'm picking up a local set of R1 carbs tomorrow and I'm ready to do this!:laugh:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

bmwquick said:


> Couple of quick mani questions:
> 
> Is ANYBODY selling these 16v flanges?? Weir tech only has 8v one's and I've looked everywhere..
> 
> Also, it looks like the 16v runner spacing from the flange to the carb is the same, so you don't have to bend/angle the runner tubes (unlike the 8v's), correct?? That'll make fabricating the mani much easier with my limited fab skills. I'm picking up a local set of R1 carbs tomorrow and I'm ready to do this!:laugh:


Sorry, but after the last round of flanges taking 6 weeks to get, I've given up on the machinist I was using. He was too far out of my way, too. 

I'd recommend talking to Howie @ HE Performance. Check out his website: www.heperformance.com I know he's done a few 16V ITB manifolds, and he welded up my R1 manifold for me. Good guy, great work, SEMA Design award winner, he should be able to hook you up. Tell him Andy with Dub N Rub sent you. :thumbup:


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

On the note of my project, I started a template for my throttle switch bracket yesterday. Upon some info I found in this thread I may pick up another micro switch and run a full throttle switch as well as the idle switch. Sorry, no pics.


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## jetta86GLI (Apr 2, 2012)

I am starting a project in my Jetta 1986 GLI, I already do a upgrade to my jetta I changed the engine for a ABA block with flat pistons, JH head stock camshaft, weber 32/36 carb, MSD 6AL ignition box, Blast 2 coil, and I am trying to change the JH Head to a 16v, with the ABA block probably I will need to change the flat pistons, and will put the yamaha R1 carbs.

I am sorry for my poor english


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Well, after much debate, ignition-wise, I will drop my idea of going for an MSD6AL2 programmable for a Megajolt Jr setup. I'll still use an MSD coil pack and MSD spark plug wires. I'll start purchasing things little by little, no rush.


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## vswords32 (Mar 14, 2007)

so heres a few more pics of where this is going now








































































trial fit to see what has to go where..


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

such a nice manifold but will it clear the hood?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Mother of gaaaawd 

Beautiful...


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

vswords32 said:


> so heres a few more pics of where this is going now
> *snip*


Mother of god... Do you have some drawing of this thing?


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## vswords32 (Mar 14, 2007)

Dr.Steels said:


> Mother of god... Do you have some drawing of this thing?


im afraid not,i had it made up especially for the spec of the car,waited about 4 weeks for it and it is a work of art!


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Everything fueling wise completed:









test fitting the carbs:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

time to do the MSD ignitions. this is what i have so far:

on the start/retard box the white wire was connected to the green on the ignition module (pin #1). what about the gray and the purple wires? they are just left there. 
on the VW ignition module, what is pin 2? ground? pin 3, 5, 6 are connected to hall sender. pin 4 seems to be the ignition power wire because 2 red power wires (one from MSD and the other from retard box) were connected to it. by the way, my engine is 9a on motronic and didnt have the VW ignition module.

is that all?

Thank you.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

cant use that diagram because our distributors have hall senders not amplifiers. first thing that turned up on search


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> cant use that diagram because our distributors have hall senders not amplifiers. first thing that turned up on search


sweet! so ill get all the wring done in the next few days and get a timing gun. my car was set to oem timing specs a few months ago. i have an adjustable timing gear so i can use that to set the timing right?
do i use the plug on the side of the MSD to get the rpm reading via the oem gauge? how do i get the rpm to stay at 900 on idle?

also, i got the fueling to work last night, but it only work with ecu plugged in, if i unplug the ecu the pump does not turn on. i have it wired into the original plug for the main fuel pump. which wire do i need to find and splice together?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> sweet! so ill get all the wring done in the next few days and get a timing gun. my car was set to oem timing specs a few months ago. i have an adjustable timing gear so i can use that to set the timing right?
> do i use the plug on the side of the MSD to get the rpm reading via the oem gauge? how do i get the rpm to stay at 900 on idle?
> 
> also, i got the fueling to work last night, but it only work with ecu plugged in, if i unplug the ecu the pump does not turn on. i have it wired into the original plug for the main fuel pump. which wire do i need to find and splice together?


need to slow down and take it one step at a time. Worry about timing later get your fueling sorted out. The reason your fuel pump isnt working is because the ecu gets fuel pump readings from the tach. Obviously with the ecu out of the question now the fuel pump isnt getting singal from the ecu. What you have to do is get the MSD Tach Adapter, hook that up to your MSD tach output and wire it to the stock tach wire, this will solve two problems. 1: the fuel pump issue 2: the tach reading. If you try and hook up the tach output wire directly to the stock tach the msd doesnt output the right signal for our cars (hence the adapter).

Timing will be a two person job, dont worry about your adjustable cam gear now that is for fine tuning only. What the msd 8980 retard box does is retard your timing 20*. So what you would want to do is set your dizzy to ~30* ADVANCE at idle (~900rpm). 30* advance will be almost locked out. So you will have roughly 10* advance at idle.


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> need to slow down and take it one step at a time. Worry about timing later get your fueling sorted out. The reason your fuel pump isnt working is because the ecu gets fuel pump readings from the tach. Obviously with the ecu out of the question now the fuel pump isnt getting singal from the ecu. What you have to do is get the MSD Tach Adapter, hook that up to your MSD tach output and wire it to the stock tach wire, this will solve two problems. 1: the fuel pump issue 2: the tach reading. If you try and hook up the tach output wire directly to the stock tach the msd doesnt output the right signal for our cars (hence the adapter).
> 
> Timing will be a two person job, dont worry about your adjustable cam gear now that is for fine tuning only. What the msd 8980 retard box does is retard your timing 20*. So what you would want to do is set your dizzy to ~30* ADVANCE at idle (~900rpm). 30* advance will be almost locked out. So you will have roughly 10* advance at idle.


so i need the 8920 Tach adapter then?


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

I have a 1984 rabbit L with a 1.7 liter. It had a factory carb that I replaced with a weber 32/36.

My questions are these:
1. what fuel pressure do these carbs need?
2. does anyone make an intake manifold for my car to run on bike carbs?
3. what carbs are reccommended for my 65 HP monster?


----------



## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

oopseyesharted said:


> I have a 1984 rabbit L with a 1.7 liter. It had a factory carb that I replaced with a weber 32/36.
> 
> My questions are these:
> 1. what fuel pressure do these carbs need?
> ...


1.the R1-carbs use no more then 3.5 PSI of fuel pressure.
2.Best thing to do Is get some Aluminum machined to a manifold flange and get a machine shope to bend and mill yoru runners, You can have them weld them in place to.
3. Being a 1.7 I would think a smaller carb like those found on honda CBR 600's may be appropriate.


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

hey everyone, thinking about going to carbs to ditch CIS and it's inconsistency...if i get my self into this, the hardest part will be making a proper manifold. does anyone still have schematics or a spare flange for an 8v sitting around? if not, what kind of place is best to get a pice of metal to fab one up?

thanks for the help!


----------



## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Sorry, but after the last round of flanges taking 6 weeks to get, I've given up on the machinist I was using. He was too far out of my way, too.
> 
> I'd recommend talking to Howie @ HE Performance. Check out his website: www.heperformance.com I know he's done a few 16V ITB manifolds, and he welded up my R1 manifold for me. Good guy, great work, SEMA Design award winner, he should be able to hook you up. Tell him Andy with Dub N Rub sent you. :thumbup:


I emailed him and he quoted me 150-250 if I provide the flange and carbs. Which isn't bad but out of my price range considering I still need a flange. Plus the shipping costs. 

i'm going to a laser cutting place tomorrow to get some quotes on cutting a flange. If anyone needs any 16v flanges let me know!! 

Also whats the best way to clean everything? Soak in degreaser?

Here's what I have


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

[/QUOTE]

awesome picture! if i were to get carbs i'd do the same thing + make sure there's no rubber inside the carb and just throw the whole thing in a clean bucket of carb cleaner. my .02

and thanks for the repost on the manifold info. must've missed that one due to only skimming the last 10ish pages cause i was tired of reading! :laugh:


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

Dr.Steels said:


> 1.the R1-carbs use no more then 3.5 PSI of fuel pressure.
> 2.Best thing to do Is get some Aluminum machined to a manifold flange and get a machine shope to bend and mill yoru runners, You can have them weld them in place to.
> 3. Being a 1.7 I would think a smaller carb like those found on honda CBR 600's may be appropriate.


Excellent thanks.
My stock fuel pump is going to be just right for these carbs then. I am off to ebay!!!!!


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> cant use that diagram because our distributors have hall senders not amplifiers. first thing that turned up on search


so i wired everything like in the diagram with purple wire hooked up to the 2 red with black (out of the ignition module) and powered straight from the battery. the car turns over and i jumped the fuel pump. i was getting almost 3psi on fuel gauge. the car turns over but wont start. i did notice that fuel was dripping from under the carbs (on the right side) a little. :banghead: WTF


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> so i wired everything like in the diagram with purple wire hooked up to the 2 red with black (out of the ignition module) and powered straight from the battery. the car turns over and i jumped the fuel pump. i was getting almost 3psi on fuel gauge. the car turns over but wont start. i did notice that fuel was dripping from under the carbs (on the right side) a little. :banghead: WTF


You need to seal those float bowls with a fine application of RTV high temp silicone over the fb o-rings... just don't overuse the silicone and let it dry and try again. That's just for the fuel leaks, as for the engine... You could try the fuel enrichment?


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

So how much should it cost to get a flange made?? I called a bunch of places and visited a laser cutting shop today and the cheapest quote I got was $100-120.:screwy: I was really hoping to not go over $200 on the manifold but I don't think that possible now..


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> You need to seal those float bowls with a fine application of RTV high temp silicone over the fb o-rings... just don't overuse the silicone and let it dry and try again. That's just for the fuel leaks, as for the engine... You could try the fuel enrichment?


it stopped leaking but the car still wont start. this is what i have tried:
grounded the gray start/retard wire, connected the #4 spot on ignition module directly to + on battery, connected the 2 heavy wired from ignition box to correct spots on the battery, orange on + and black on - ignition coil, 2 red wires (one from start/retard and the other from ignition) connected to #4 wire from ignition module. spots 6,5,3 on ignition module are connected to the distributor. i had the fuel pump relay out and jumped it. what i noticed is that when i connect the heavy - wire from the ignition box to battery, the fuel pump turns on even if i dont have the negative terminal original wire hooked up to it. the car cranks, with about 3.5-4psi of fuel but not starting.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

make sure you have spark. Take your coil-to-distributor plug out from the distributor and put it on a ground (valve cover bolt\distributor bolt ect) unplug the white wire from the 6al box that goes to the 8980 box. Turn the ignition on, and touch the white wire to a ground and you should see a big spark from the coil plug


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> make sure you have spark. Take your coil-to-distributor plug out from the distributor and put it on a ground (valve cover bolt\distributor bolt ect) unplug the white wire from the 6al box that goes to the 8980 box. Turn the ignition on, and touch the white wire to a ground and you should see a big spark from the coil plug


spark is there, and fuel is getting delivered to the carbs, but thats as far as i got.:banghead:


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

Hey Miami, is your 8v knockbox setup working right?? It seems like you had issues with getting it to run in your previous posts. I'm very interested because I have the same engine (9a) and I'm planning on going via the knockbox route.

You posted a diagram in the "Lets revisit Knock Box Retrofitting for CIS" thread. Someone mentioned it didn't work becuase you have Pin #10 wire hooked up wrong. Did you ever find the actual problem??

diagram in question...
http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae267/SkierDudeGuy/untitled.jpg

EDIT: Paid $110 today to get a laser-cut 16V flange out of 3/8" mild steel. Absolute cheapest I found in Portland.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

so i re-wired the icm module and manually grounded the negative wire that goes to the hall sender (pin 3) because on my stock wiring that wire gets a ground signal. with choke on, the car tries to start but not quiet there. i did see some smoke puff from the upper vent on the right side of the carbs (side closest to the throttle cable). 

by the way, what do i do with the gray and purple wires that are coming out of the start/retard box


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

@ bmwquick: Wow, I'm sorry I'm not doing the flanges anymore. That's not horrid, and sounds about average, though. The guy I was using just has a CNC upright mill that he uses. No expensive laser machine, or anything, so perhaps its just lower overhead? I'm out of material, too, and having him get it just seems like it would add more hassle and time to the process. I never actually talked to Howie about making flanges, but I've seen the ITB and SRI manifolds he's done, so I figured he already had something going on for flanges. 

As for cleaning of the carbs, I'm about ready to tear mine down for a rebuild and plan on separating them (need to make a new throttle cable bracket) and tossing them into my buddy's sonic cleaner while they're apart!  It's kinda small and will only fit two at a time, but for what they'll come out looking like, I'm all for it! I plan on tossing a bunch of other bits in there, too, like the oil filter housing and distributor body. 

I'm still keeping a close eye on everyones' various knock-box setups/diagrams/successes. I've still got a few wires to take care of on mine, and the carbs to rebuild, but I'm hoping to be ready to test fire before the end of the year. Yeah, I know that's not the shortest time frame, but that's because I have too many other projects! I need to get the VRT MK2 done so I can sell it to finish the Cabby on bike carbs!


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

spddemon313 said:


> hey everyone, thinking about going to carbs to ditch CIS and it's inconsistency...if i get my self into this, the hardest part will be making a proper manifold. does anyone still have schematics or a spare flange for an 8v sitting around? if not, what kind of place is best to get a pice of metal to fab one up?
> 
> thanks for the help!


 The metal that was used for the flanges I got machined was purchased off of craigslist, actually. I found a piece perfectly sized to get 6 flanges out of for around $40. 

I'd ask around at machine shops and see if you can't find something in their scrap/cast-offs pile that may not be useful to them, but would be right for you.


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

First start


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Awesome! How is your msd setup working out for you? Have you taken it for a drive?


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Awesome! How is your msd setup working out for you? Have you taken it for a drive?


 i have not. all i did is get it to run for now


----------



## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

Sounds great!! I'd love to see a dyno once you have everything setup and tuned perfectly..:thumbup:


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## littlesnides (Jul 20, 2002)

Ordered my flange from weir-tech... 17. Dolla. . You can text him from the number on his site and he replies pretty quick. I got an 8v steel flange (counterflow), but he said he also has them in aluminum. I would bet he will be getting 16v flanges soon.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

bmwquick said:


> Sounds great!! I'd love to see a dyno once you have everything setup and tuned perfectly..:thumbup:


 that would be nice, but it may take a while, need more $$$. got to sell some parts (50mm euro intake mani, and so on)


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

so its time to figure out the tach and fuel pump problems. I think/ pretty sure that i need a tach adapter from MSD, but which one? (8910 or 8920). The pump works when i simply jump it and the tach wast working when i fired her up for the first time. I am using the 6A ignition box with start/retard setup and OEM distributor. The magnetic pickup is not being used. I am also using the 89 Helios speedo (8k RPM), and i had to more the tach wire from one spot to another in the fuse box, just don't remember which one, but im sure i can figure it out, or maybe it was the coolant wire. it was something like c6 to c8. 
Thanx


----------



## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

If anyone needs a aba 8v adapter im going to be selling mine. Its not the prettiest but will work to get your car running i also have a rack of r-1 carbs id let go with them as a complete unit for 250 all together. know this isnt a sell thread but if your looking to carb an aba i have it all right here for you. Im going to tdi swap my rig is why im selling. Heres a pic.


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

So what runner length are you guys running?? I'm going to measure but I was wondered what others had.

Also picked up my flange today.. let me know if anyone wants one!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

bmwquick said:


> So what runner length are you guys running?? I'm going to measure but I was wondered what others had.


My runners are just long enough to keep everything clear of the hood! :laugh:


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> My runners are just long enough to keep everything clear of the hood! :laugh:


Same here.







rysskii3 said:


> so its time to figure out the tach and fuel pump problems. I think/ pretty sure that i need a tach adapter from MSD, but which one? (8910 or 8920). The pump works when i simply jump it and the tach wast working when i fired her up for the first time. I am using the 6A ignition box with start/retard setup and OEM distributor. The magnetic pickup is not being used. I am also using the 89 Helios speedo (8k RPM), and i had to more the tach wire from one spot to another in the fuse box, just don't remember which one, but im sure i can figure it out, or maybe it was the coolant wire. it was something like c6 to c8.
> Thanx


 Got it.


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

What's everybody doing about the throttle cable? I saw the first few people and how they did theirs, but I'm looking for a simpler, no necessarily cheaper solution, but it needs to be solid and clean since Im using the car for racing.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

I used a generic vw old beetle cable, a univesal cover (sheath?) and regular bicycle curved tubes to route the cable to the carbs. Simple, yet effective.


----------



## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> What's everybody doing about the throttle cable? I saw the first few people and how they did theirs, but I'm looking for a simpler, no necessarily cheaper solution, but it needs to be solid and clean since Im using the car for racing.


from my build thread. I used a hood release cable (stronger than bicycle brake cable, had the right end for a cbr900 carb) I then cut off the stock cables jhook, chucked it in my drill press vice, and very carefully drilled out the cable left in it. I then put the hood release cable in the stock throttle cable sheath, cut it to length, and then crimped and soldered the jhook onto the new cable. Viola, new cable that is strong, uses the stock sheath, and has the right ends.




yeayeayea said:


> So its time to make a new throttle cable, since my bicycle brake cable finally died.
> 
> I am using a honda hood release cable, as it has the right size barrel end for the cbr900 carbs
> 
> ...


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

So has anyone in here separated the rack of carbs? To clean mine the way I want to and to make a new throttle cable bracket requires me to separate them. I've heard of people having issues getting them resealed, apparently, and was wondering if anyone here has had those issues?


----------



## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> So has anyone in here separated the rack of carbs? To clean mine the way I want to and to make a new throttle cable bracket requires me to separate them. I've heard of people having issues getting them resealed, apparently, and was wondering if anyone here has had those issues?


Nah, scared to bits, so no. :laugh:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

YJSAABMAN said:


> So has anyone in here separated the rack of carbs? To clean mine the way I want to and to make a new throttle cable bracket requires me to separate them. I've heard of people having issues getting them resealed, apparently, and was wondering if anyone here has had those issues?


Like to individual carbs? If so yes, but then again I don't have r1 carbs. Resealed? Like where the fuel flows from one to the next?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> Like to individual carbs? If so yes, but then again I don't have r1 carbs. Resealed? Like where the fuel flows from one to the next?











http://www.howmotorcycleswork.com/r6/index.htm


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

rysskii3 said:


> http://www.howmotorcycleswork.com/r6/index.htm


Everything is o-ringed I don't know why it wouldn't seal.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> Everything is o-ringed I don't know why it wouldn't seal.


and if you look on ebay, there are plenty of seal kits for sale.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> from my build thread. I used a hood release cable (stronger than bicycle brake cable, had the right end for a cbr900 carb) I then cut off the stock cables jhook, chucked it in my drill press vice, and very carefully drilled out the cable left in it. I then put the hood release cable in the stock throttle cable sheath, cut it to length, and then crimped and soldered the jhook onto the new cable. Viola, new cable that is strong, uses the stock sheath, and has the right ends.


that looks good, but wouldnt it come out under heavy use?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

If you're talking about the ends. I highly doubt it unless the cable is to short.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> that looks good, but wouldnt it come out under heavy use?


I cant guarantee anything. But it is crimped and soldered on, which is more than the stock cable is (just crimped as far as i know) so far so good!


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

ok so can anyone show me where youd pull ported vacuum and the proof it makes a difference running it or not?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I cant guarantee anything. But it is crimped and soldered on, which is more than the stock cable is (just crimped as far as i know) so far so good!


 cool. how did you mount it on the carbs? after seeing your pictures, i thought of getting an older diesel vw throttle cable (heard it was longer) cutting off the end and attaching the hook for the pedal like on the stock cable so its the right length.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> cool. how did you mount it on the carbs? after seeing your pictures, i thought of getting an older diesel vw throttle cable (heard it was longer) cutting off the end and attaching the hook for the pedal like on the stock cable so its the right length.


 I made a bracket to hold the stock cable holder, and bolted it to the backside of the head. just have to make sure you make it tall enough so the cable doesnt cut into the valve cover


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I made a bracket to hold the stock cable holder, and bolted it to the backside of the head. just have to make sure you make it tall enough so the cable doesnt cut into the valve cover


 cant really see, would you mind taking a few pics of the bracket and how you have it attached to the carbs. 
thanx.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

2l 16v CE2 wiring 
Need help with getting the tach and fuel pump to work. 
i hooked up the tach adapter 8910 to white from ignition box, the same white wire that goes to yellow on start/retard. the red from tach adapter is hooked up to the red on Ignition/start retard/ pin 4 on ICM. the white wire from the adapter should also be connected to the tach directly? if so where? i have all the stock wiring removed, even the stock red/black wire that sat on negative ignition coil (tach wire). by looking at the stock wiring diagrams, the red/black wire goes from the negative ignition wire, to 6 pin gray plug at location number 2, the wire that comes out is green, and that goes to fuse box location f/9. 
























I only pulled the wires out of those 3 connectors, they are in order F, G1,G2.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> cant really see, would you mind taking a few pics of the bracket and how you have it attached to the carbs.
> thanx.


 I sure can, once i shake this hangover


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I sure can, once i shake this hangover


 take a few shots and it will help.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> Everything is o-ringed I don't know why it wouldn't seal.


 That's what I was thinking. I plan on completely rebuilding these before they get fired up on this engine, but just wanted to check with you guys to see what's up.


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## Miami Blue (Jan 12, 2009)

*DAMN!*

Have not been on here for about 14 months and cant believe how well this thread is doing  
Looking good everyone!


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

My set up is pretty close to firing up for the first time so I figured I'd share. 
1.8 16v with 82mm 11:5:1 je pistons 
Redecked head and block 
Mildly ported head with autotech cams and adjustable gear 
3 angle valve job 
Spec stg1 clutch kit 
Raceland header and tt 2.25 catback 
Running r1 carbs and a ms ecu for spark. 

Few loose ends to tie up but it's real close!


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## GLIguy85 (Jul 13, 2008)

:thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> My set up is pretty close to firing up for the first time so I figured I'd share.
> 1.8 16v with 82mm 11:5:1 je pistons
> Redecked head and block
> Mildly ported head with autotech cams and adjustable gear
> ...


 nice, but why did you mount the carter pump on the firewall? it should be mounted away from the heat. a better place would be on the fender where the stock intake box was.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

The header is getting wrapped so I'm not concerned about heat. I had it on the inner fender and I didn't like it. I have the fpr mounted on that side also and it just looked akward to me having all that mounted to one side an the drivers side being bare. I'm also not running the transfer pump in the tank so I think having it mounted a little lower will be less strenuos on it.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> The header is getting wrapped so I'm not concerned about heat. I had it on the inner fender and I didn't like it. I have the fpr mounted on that side also and it just looked akward to me having all that mounted to one side an the drivers side being bare. I'm also not running the transfer pump in the tank so I think having it mounted a little lower will be less strenuos on it.


 why dont you just mount it in the stock location of the main pump?


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> why dont you just mount it in the stock location of the main pump?


 If it becomes a problem I will, but I've seen it mounted there by a few people with no issues.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> If it becomes a problem I will, but I've seen it mounted there by a few people with no issues.


 got ya. well if you do want to move it, this is what i did:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Looks good, thanks :thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Looks good, thanks :thumbup:


 :beer:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

so, i got the rpm gauge to work, and got the choke cable on. last thing is the throttle cable. i need some ideas with this. by the way, where can i get new filters that are already on the carbs? Or is it better to get something else? :beer:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> so, i got the rpm gauge to work, and got the choke cable on. last thing is the throttle cable. i need some ideas with this. by the way, where can i get new filters that are already on the carbs? Or is it better to get something else? :beer:


 looks good:thumbup: 

question though, i ran into a problem with my alternator. The motor I have is a factory no ac no power steering setup. So all I have is a small bracket that holds the alt,and it mounts up at the top edge of the block*( right in the way of the carbs) . What are you using for a bracket?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> looks good:thumbup:
> 
> question though, i ran into a problem with my alternator. The motor I have is a factory no ac no power steering setup. So all I have is a small bracket that holds the alt,and it mounts up at the top edge of the block*( right in the way of the carbs) . What are you using for a bracket?


 I used whatever bracket that came with the car, just got a longer upper arm and a smaller belt to move the alternator down a little.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

I'd like a little advice... if you please. 

A friend has this: Mikuni BST38SS carbs, like the RS40? From a Suzuki GSX-R 750 from 1990. I read that those carbs have a "pump" or something... Being totally different from the BDSR off a Yamaha R1... how would you go about drilling the main jet? Would it be roughly the same as for the R1? 1.6mm and start from there? He has a 2L ABA engine. How many turns for the Pilot Fuel screw? 

Sorry for so many questions  









Those are the ones. 

Any help would be very appreciated.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> cant really see, would you mind taking a few pics of the bracket and how you have it attached to the carbs.
> thanx.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

^ 
Thank you! 

i decided to take my car to a dyno shop that specializes in carb tuning. i am sure i can benefit from larger jets, where are you guys getting those from and what size?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

What carbs are you running? R1's im guessing? Engine size/#of valves/mods?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> What carbs are you running? R1's im guessing? Engine size/#of valves/mods?


 r1 on 2l 16v with a set of euro cams, mild p&p, rebuilt head (Valve job, seals, surfaced, the works), 4 to 1 race header and exhaust, clutch, flywheel, and a few other things here and there. i also like to run 100 oct fuel in it at the track and shift at around 7300k


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Well I havea 1.8 16v with autotech cams, decked head, 3 angle valve job, race header, no cat, full exhaust, and I run 1.73mm mains, everything else left as honda set it. That is on cbr900rr carbs, which are 38mm. 
Perhaps that would be a good starting point for you, assuming cbr jet sizes cross reference with R1 sizes


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Well I havea 1.8 16v with autotech cams, decked head, 3 angle valve job, race header, no cat, full exhaust, and I run 1.73mm mains, everything else left as honda set it. That is on cbr900rr carbs, which are 38mm.
> Perhaps that would be a good starting point for you, assuming cbr jet sizes cross reference with R1 sizes


 the r1 are 40mm, right? where to get the jets from? i see that jegs and all sell jets, but can i use those on the bike carbs? im taking the car to a dyno shop to tune and sync the carbs, kinda expensive but it will be worth it.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I just drilled mine, I have a drill index that increases bit size in a lot smaller increments than a typical bit set, so it had odd sizes like the 1.73mm one i used


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I just drilled mine, I have a drill index that increases bit size in a lot smaller increments than a typical bit set, so it had odd sizes like the 1.73mm one i used


 got ya. i dont want to drill it. i rather get new jets. i heard some people are getting good results from 1.8 and 2.0mm


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

expecting to find bike carb jets at jegs?:laugh: try motorcyclesuperstore.com thats where I buy all my motorcycle parts from, they should have jets for any r1


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> expecting to find bike carb jets at jegs?:laugh: try motorcyclesuperstore.com thats where I buy all my motorcycle parts from, they should have jets for any r1


 most places have stage 1, which is for mostly stock bike engine, and it doesnt say what size they are.:banghead:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> most places have stage 1, which is for mostly stock bike engine, and it doesnt say what size they are.:banghead:


 A bike tuner will likely have a ton of jets for an R1, unless they dont keep stuff in stock for carbed bikes anymore.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> A bike tuner will likely have a ton of jets for an R1, unless they dont keep stuff in stock for carbed bikes anymore.


no one really has them in stock, and its a b!tch to find them online.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Any local yamaha dealer will be able to order them and likely have them in stock. They usually have boxes and boxes of jets for various carbs


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> Any local yamaha dealer will be able to order them and likely have them in stock. They usually have boxes and boxes of jets for various carbs


I tried. Nothing local, and even when i call dynojet which makes jets for r1, they only have the slightly larger set rated for stock engine with only exhaust.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

then looks like drilling is your best bet, its not hard at all just order a dozen or so small drill bits of the right size from mcmaster-carr


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> then looks like drilling is your best bet, its not hard at all just order a dozen or so small drill bits of the right size from mcmaster-carr


I'm going to take the car to a shop that specializes in carbs, so they will take care of it.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

well if it comes down to it, drilling them is super easy with a drillpress, especially one with a vice.

Hell for less than the cost of a jet kit I bought my drillpress and vice off craigslist.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

So... no help for me?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> So... no help for me?


maybe it would be better to take the car to a shop that works on carbs. i much rather do that and have them dyno tune it than messing and guessing with minimal knowledge.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> So... no help for me?


Know nothing about those other carbs, man. Hell, I don't even know much about my R1 carbs! :laugh:

When you say they have a "pump," I'm assuming an accelerator pump, like a Holley or a Weber. I think the R1 style carbs just use vacuum to increase fuel flow.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

on a side note, what size are the R1 carbs?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> maybe it would be better to take the car to a shop that works on carbs. i much rather do that and have them dyno tune it than messing and guessing with minimal knowledge.


That'd be great, if only where I live had knowledgeable carb specialists. So no, there aren't. Also, the guy with these carbs is not near me (In Mexico City, Mexico), he's in the country of Guatemala, so I'd like to be able to help him as best to my ability.

Guesswork was what I did when I installed my R1 carbs, thanks to the knowledge of some awesome dudes on here, which gave me the guts to do the mod myself, instead of handing the job to someone else. I'm not saying it's not good, it's just different.

Anyways, I'll contnue to look for answers.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Know nothing about those other carbs, man. Hell, I don't even know much about my R1 carbs! :laugh:
> 
> When you say they have a "pump," I'm assuming an accelerator pump, like a Holley or a Weber. I think the R1 style carbs just use vacuum to increase fuel flow.


Yes! That accelerator pump thingy, whatever that's called. Having a bit of idea on how to adjust it would be awesome...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Yes! That accelerator pump thingy, whatever that's called. Having a bit of idea on how to adjust it would be awesome...


I haven't played with them too much, but here's a video I found on the basics of the Holley Carb's accelerator pump. IT should at least give you a better understanding of it works than I can! 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW6YGxVTW5Y


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> I haven't played with them too much, but here's a video I found on the basics of the Holley Carb's accelerator pump. IT should at least give you a better understanding of it works than I can!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW6YGxVTW5Y


Wow, thanks! It clears out many questions! Thanks! :thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

which filters are the least restrictive for the carbs?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Screens. Then a nice paper filter such as k&n or a good foam filter for decent flow but best protection.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> Screens. Then a nice paper filter such as k&n or a good foam filter for decent flow but best protection.


that would be nice but how easy is to find it, because i can easily buy k&n cone filters, but they are $$$$$.:banghead:


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

Here is what I did for my "filter" Took half of the R1 intake and mated up with half of an aircooled fuel injected airbox and doubled up some window screen as the filters. Works great and almost looks like it could be a factory item. 

On a side note:
Are any of you monkeys going to be making it to SOWO next weekend?? It would be interesting to get as many R1 carb setups together.:thumbup:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> that would be nice but how easy is to find it, because i can easily buy k&n cone filters, but they are $$$$$.:banghead:


ebay has cheap carb filters


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> ebay has cheap carb filters


They are cheap for a reason.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> They are cheap for a reason.


The set I have seem fine. But I can respect you wanting a known brand for something like an air filter. I dont even run filters. They hit my hood


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

> > They are cheap for a reason.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Mine fit no problem with filters, I just don't buy anything on eBay unless It's a known and respected brand. EBay sells lots of crappy products, and I learned that many years ago.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

people run no filters all the time with webers, I dont see why cheaping out on ebay filters for the street is a problem. I run no filters unless its raining on my webers.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> people run no filters all the time with webers, I dont see why cheaping out on ebay filters for the street is a problem. I run no filters unless its raining on my webers.


good luck with re-building your engine. im going to be racing the car, so there will be a need for filters.


So i was checking my timing, got the car warmed up and it cycled the radiator fans 2 times. The only time I saw the timing mark was when the dial on the gun was past 60. Where should the timing be set at?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

people run open webers ALL the time up at the track. Every car ive seen at the vintage races with webers didnt have any filter on it:laugh:. Id say 80% of people on here with webers run no filters also so I guess they all will be rebuilding their engine too? just sayin, don't knock something till you actually know


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Hes made it clear he wants to run filters, so no need to attack anyone. 

I will say, running filters vs no filters makes a difference in what jets you run. My car will not run right with the filters on, the slight restriction is enough to make it pull too much fuel.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Since we're on the filter topic what does everyone think of these uni filters?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

yeayeayea said:


> Hes made it clear he wants to run filters, so no need to attack anyone.
> 
> I will say, running filters vs no filters makes a difference in what jets you run. My car will not run right with the filters on, the slight restriction is enough to make it pull too much fuel.


I'm not saying to run no filters I'm just saying that running "cheap" ebay filters on any type of road is fine. Unless your following someone costantly that's in the dirt or your track cleaners suck then it will be fine with cheap paper filters. If you feel like going overkill on everything then go ahead its not my money:facepalm:

The only reason I would go with a quality filter is if your carbs are tuned properly Nd your WOT all the time and fuel is atomizing out the front like they should the filters will break down eventually and I've seen filters do more harm than good. So id rather get a quality filter for that quality rather than believing they block out more particles


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> people run open webers ALL the time up at the track. Every car ive seen at the vintage races with webers didnt have any filter on it:laugh:. Id say 80% of people on here with webers run no filters also so I guess they all will be rebuilding their engine too? just sayin, don't knock something till you actually know


 do you understand english? i said that i wanted filters, leave it at that!


yeayeayea said:


> Hes made it clear he wants to run filters, so no need to attack anyone.
> 
> I will say, running filters vs no filters makes a difference in what jets you run. My car will not run right with the filters on, the slight restriction is enough to make it pull too much fuel.


thank you.


anyways, where should the timing be set at?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Any reusable paper style filter with k&n oil will be just as good as a k&n. Also keep in mind the dirtier a filter gets the more it filters and restricts flow. If you're tracking your car run screens if you want some kind of protection. If your carbs face the front don't run foam filters when its raining it'll suck up as much water as it wants. Paper does the same but not quite as bad. It'll also ruin the paper if soaks up enough water. I found if its raining my car only runs with the filters off. Not the best for the engine but I had to do it a couple times :/


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> Any reusable paper style filter with k&n oil will be just as good as a k&n. Also keep in mind the dirtier a filter gets the more it filters and restricts flow. If you're tracking your car run screens if you want some kind of protection. If your carbs face the front don't run foam filters when its raining it'll suck up as much water as it wants. Paper does the same but not quite as bad. It'll also ruin the paper if soaks up enough water. I found if its raining my car only runs with the filters off. Not the best for the engine but I had to do it a couple times :/


thanx. the car is not driven in the rain ( no wipers).


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> do you understand english? i said that i wanted filters, leave it at that!
> 
> 
> thank you.
> ...


No English at all. Set the timing at 60 you'll be fine:facepalm: seriously do you even read? I'm not saying run no filters I'm just saying don't bash ebay filters for street use because people run no filters all the time. Who speaks English now? I forgot why I left vortex a while ago, now I remember.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

ncbrock said:


> No English at all. Set the timing at 60 you'll be fine:facepalm: seriously do you even read? I'm not saying run no filters I'm just saying don't bash ebay filters for street use because people run no filters all the time. Who speaks English now? I forgot why I left vortex a while ago, now I remember.


Your argument is flawed. Just because you can run no filters, does not mean that you can run cheap filters just fine. What if a cheap filter falls apart, and sucks in your intake? Then it would most certainly be worse than running no filter at all. This is likely what he is trying to avoid. I have had my car eat a set of screens I was running as an intake. I dont like to think about what it did to the inside of the engine, I just pretend it went through without causing any harm.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Your argument is flawed. Just because you can run no filters, does not mean that you can run cheap filters just fine. What if a cheap filter falls apart, and sucks in your intake? Then it would most certainly be worse than running no filter at all. This is likely what he is trying to avoid. I have had my car eat a set of screens I was running as an intake. I dont like to think about what it did to the inside of the engine, I just pretend it went through without causing any harm.


almost everything on ebay is crap. i rather spend more on quality and reliability. 
just ignore ncbrock, he always talks out of his ass, half the comments he makes are completely meaningless.

now that we are dont conversating about filters, whats the timing should be at?:laugh::beer:


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> almost everything on ebay is crap. i rather spend more on quality and reliability.
> just ignore ncbrock, he always talks out of his ass, half the comments he makes are completely meaningless.
> 
> now that we are dont conversating about filters, whats the timing should be at?:laugh::beer:


yeah half my comments are meaningless:laugh: how old are you 12? I actually just love posting things to make you mad because its quite hilarious.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

attention to funpig's post....i see this setup run everyday with no issues. here's what i plan on doing...window screen secured with a ziptie. this is nylon screen but i have some metal screen im going to use instead for the sake of backfiring...:beer:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> now that we are dont conversating about filters, whats the timing should be at?:laugh::beer:


I have never put a timing light on mine, just adjust it until it feels right. Not too precise unfortunately.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

yorgerg said:


> attention to funpig's post....i see this setup run everyday with no issues. here's what i plan on doing...window screen secured with a ziptie. this is nylon screen but i have some metal screen im going to use instead for the sake of backfiring...:beer:


Are those cbr carbs?

Also nylon will not last. I burnt up aluminum screen. go stainless.


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## zhemel (Apr 23, 2005)

So as a carb Newbie, I am planning on running R1 carbs on a 86 1.8l 8v gti. I have read and searched but to no avail. The car has been sitting for 10 years and rather than spending a bunch of money on fuel injection parts i wanna run carbs. Can you list of all the parts I need to make the R1 carbs work on my lil 1.8 8v motor. I have my flame suit on.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

It'll probably cost less to fix the FI system.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

zhemel said:


> So as a carb Newbie, I am planning on running R1 carbs on a 86 1.8l 8v gti. I have read and searched but to no avail. The car has been sitting for 10 years and rather than spending a bunch of money on fuel injection parts i wanna run carbs. Can you list of all the parts I need to make the R1 carbs work on my lil 1.8 8v motor. I have my flame suit on.


I suggest you read this whole thread. And mine here
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5041909-build-thread-16v-cbr900-carbs-high-compression

Then if you still have questions feel free to ask them. You will learn a lot, and will learn what you need to make the carbs work.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

For those asking about filters, I'm using K&N Part # 62-1480 from their breather line. Chrome tops, perfect fit, just kiss my hood at the outside edges, and about half the cost of anything from the powersports filter line. They average just under $20/ea.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

^nice.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Here is a video of my timing. Before I installed the carbs, the timing was set to 8 degrees by a mechanic that really knows VW. The timing on the cam gear comes put as 8 degrees, but on the flywheel i get over 65 degrees. I do have a light weight flywheel and stage 1 spec clutch. Any ideas what's going on? Thanx.
first shot of the flywheel timing is when the timing gun was set to 8 degrees, and the second is when i turned the knob all the way to 60+.


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## zhemel (Apr 23, 2005)

yeayeayea said:


> I suggest you read this whole thread. And mine here
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5041909-build-thread-16v-cbr900-carbs-high-compression
> 
> Then if you still have questions feel free to ask them. You will learn a lot, and will learn what you need to make the carbs work.


Thanks for the Info.  It will make for some good reading tonight.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

10-12* at idle 32* total. Whatever that knob does on the msd idle or total do it to that . You should only be checking timing at the fw not the cam gear. I don't know how your getting 60* for timing it shouldn't even run with that much timing. Or is that useless info out my ass too?


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

yorgerg said:


> attention to funpig's post....i see this setup run everyday with no issues. here's what i plan on doing...window screen secured with a ziptie. this is nylon screen but i have some metal screen im going to use instead for the sake of backfiring...:beer:


YoGerg.... did you get this POS running yet?!?! Git'er did man! Time is a tickin' :wave:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> Here is a video of my timing. Before I installed the carbs, the timing was set to 8 degrees by a mechanic that really knows VW. The timing on the cam gear comes put as 8 degrees, but on the flywheel i get over 65 degrees. I do have a light weight flywheel and stage 1 spec clutch. Any ideas what's going on? Thanx.
> first shot of the flywheel timing is when the timing gun was set to 8 degrees, and the second is when i turned the knob all the way to 60+.





ncbrock said:


> 10-12* at idle 32* total. Whatever that knob does on the msd idle or total do it to that . You should only be checking timing at the fw not the cam gear. I don't know how your getting 60* for timing it shouldn't even run with that much timing. Or is that useless info out my ass too?


can anyone else confirm?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

havent made any changes to the timing, but i did get the carbs synced yesterday. i was hoping that syncing them will reduce the amount of smoke coming out of the tail pipe. the car usually doesnt smoke when cold, but when it warms up, it begins to smoke. the car also runs pretty rich, and sometimes at idle i can see 3.5 psi on the fuel pressure gauge. i have no idea if the carbs were jetted or not. so i pulled the plugs out, and this is what i got. cylinder 1 and 4 looked fine, but 2 had lots of crap and it was wet, similar thing with cylinder 3 but not as much. :banghead: whats going on here? could it be that the carbs were jetted and are dumping too much fuel or something else could be wrong?

right to left, 1234








1








2








3








4


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

what color is the smoke? three might be a light lean at the idle screw and 2 looks like its oil fouled. headgasket is my guess.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> what color is the smoke? three might be a light lean at the idle screw and 2 looks like its oil fouled. headgasket is my guess.


Head gasket is about 1-2 k old, and It's the metal gasket. It only smokes when the car is warm. Smoke is light in color, gray/white/slightly blue. The car also smells like fuel at idle and absolutely drinks fuel. About 1/4 tank is about an hour of idle.

Edit:
It smokes more when It's warmed up at idle and when i take of in first from a dead stop. I didn't notice any smoke under deceleration. Both block and valve cover are connected to a catch can and the catch can is vented.
Valve stem seals were replaced a few thousand miles ago, same time as the head gasket, with Tectonic seals. Before the carbs went in, the spark plugs were fine. It started smoking about a few weeks ago, while the carbs were not synced.
after more examination, spark plugs 2,3,4 had little bit of oil under the metal o-ring and i found some oil (a drop or 2) under cylinder 3/4 mostly 4, where the runner bolts to the head. also, i checked the oil a week ago (less than 50-70) miles and it was full, but yesterday the dipstick didnt show that it was full.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

The bible (bentley) states that new engine compression test should be no more than 189psi with max of 44psi difference between the cylinders. i performed the test 2 times on each cylinder.
Cylinder 1: 235psi & 232psi
Cylinder 2: 230psi & 230psi
Cylinder 3: 225psi & 220psi
Cylinder 4: 225psi & 225psi


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> The bible (bentley) states that new engine compression test should be no more than 189psi with max of 44psi difference between the cylinders. i performed the test 2 times on each cylinder.
> Cylinder 1: 235psi & 232psi
> Cylinder 2: 230psi & 230psi
> Cylinder 3: 225psi & 220psi
> Cylinder 4: 225psi & 225psi


Mine were over 200 when I tested it back when I bought it. I think the bentley numbers are a little low.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Mine were over 200 when I tested it back when I bought it. I think the bentley numbers are a little low.


Now that compression is all good, why would the plugs get all jacks up?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> Now that compression is all good, why would the plugs get all jacks up?


Are they wet with oil or gas? if it was gas, it could be running really rich on those cylinders and building carbon on the plugs


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

If it was fouling a plug with gas it would look clean not gunked up. Is it miss firing at all? I don't see how it couldn't be. If it has any blue color to the smoke its burning oil. 

Edit: check the torque on the head.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Are they wet with oil or gas? if it was gas, it could be running really rich on those cylinders and building carbon on the plugs


 its hard to tell, looks like oil but similar color as fuel. the car was running very rich. 


86Franklin said:


> If it was fouling a plug with gas it would look clean not gunked up. Is it miss firing at all? I don't see how it couldn't be. If it has any blue color to the smoke its burning oil.
> 
> Edit: check the torque on the head.


head torque is perfect, i have ARP bolts in it. it might be miss firing, but hard to tell. it drives fine. its hard to tell what color the smoke is, mostly white, definitely not dark, and maybe a little hint of blue, but it could be my imagination since i was expecting low compression.

i ordered 160, 165, 170, 175 main jets and 4 gauge carb sync kit yesterday, and im getting new plugs in a few minutes. im going to install the 170 jets first and see how she runs. im also thinking of getting an o2 wide band with a gauge to monitor the afr. 
im thinking maybe when the carbs were not synced and dumping lots of fuel, that caused it somehow. the gunk from spark plug 2 comes off pretty easily with just a scratch of a nail.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Not doubting you but have you rechecked the torque after you drove it the first time. My head bolts were about a 90 degree turn off after I drove mine for the first time. I'd start with syncing them first and making sure the idle mixture screws are all the same amount of turns out. Since 1 and 4 plugs look pretty much perfect I'd say the jets are pretty close.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

That plug is 100% oil fouled, gas foul would just be wet and wouldn't leave buildup. The two outside plugs are too lean that's why they are white. The middle plug that's not fouled looks good.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> Not doubting you but have you rechecked the torque after you drove it the first time. My head bolts were about a 90 degree turn off after I drove mine for the first time. I'd start with syncing them first and making sure the idle mixture screws are all the same amount of turns out. Since 1 and 4 plugs look pretty much perfect I'd say the jets are pretty close.


The carbs were just synced a few days ago, but i did put maybe about 100 miles on the car before they got synced. I checked the head bolts a few months ago and they were fine.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

installed new spark plugs today and let the car idle for about 14 minutes. the following video was started about 1 minute after the car. you can see that there is no smoke when the car is cold, but when it warms up it gets smoky during idle. for some reason its smoking much more under throttle than before. i can definitely tell the difference with new plugs, its holding rpm much steady and less hesitation. the smoke looks blue sometimes and sometimes it doesnt, so i dont know what to think. also, the car behind is dark blue. can it be that the car is burning up all the buildup with new plugs?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

thats not good at all, check your crankcase ventalation system to see if its clogged or anything.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

I was advised to change 10w-40 oil to racing VR1 50 SAE since I was dumping too much fuel into the car.
did that, put new plugs in and took it for a 30 minute drive. came home and checked the plugs, all dry and its not smoking anymore.:beer:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

If you were dumping that much fuel you may have gas washed the rings or just thinned out your oil a whole ton


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> If you were dumping that much fuel you may have gas washed the rings or just thinned out your oil a whole ton


Could be both, but the oil was definitely thinner. I used to run 10w-40 royal purple. I'm still going to pull the head eventually and replace the rings, and maybe the pistons. But next I need to change the main jets to 170 and see what happens. I maybe have 150-200 miles on the carb setup.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

I was messing with the carbs today. This is the best I sync the carbs and keeping the rpm at about 1k. Below that the vacuum gets below the normal and above 1k the gauges sit about half way into the green.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Got mine to fire up last night for the first time! Still need to do some tweaking, it starts hard and dies shortly after. 
Also I have a question about the Carter 4070, are the + and - terminals reversible? For mounting the pump as a pusher or puller. Reason I ask is I'm barley able to get 3 psi out of it. It's mounted in the bay as low as I can get it.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Got mine to fire up last night for the first time! Still need to do some tweaking, it starts hard and dies shortly after.
> Also I have a question about the Carter 4070, are the + and - terminals reversible? For mounting the pump as a pusher or puller. Reason I ask is I'm barley able to get 3 psi out of it. It's mounted in the bay as low as I can get it.


 Reversing the polarity won't change the characteristics of the pump, it will pump fuel back into the tank. The 4070 is more of a "pusher" style pump, so your location is decent, but not ideal. What year/model is it installed on and is there still an in-tank pump to prime it?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Reversing the polarity won't change the characteristics of the pump, it will pump fuel back into the tank. The 4070 is more of a "pusher" style pump, so your location is decent, but not ideal. What year/model is it installed on and is there still an in-tank pump to prime it?


 totally agree on the pusher part. it also needs to stay cool, so engine bay may not be the best location for the pump.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> totally agree on the pusher part. it also needs to stay cool, so engine bay may not be the best location for the pump.


 Also just want to make sure you aren't trying to pull through the old fuel pump, has it been removed/bypassed? All of these things can cause low pressure numbers with high pump noise and will eventually damage the pump.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

thanks guys. 
I removed the intank pump, and the main pump was also taken out, I re-routed lines for a more straght shot to the front of the car. I think most of the problem was the front end on jack stands and my battery is a tad weak. Once I dopped the car back on the floor I was getting a steady 3.5 lbs with a lot less pump noise. I think once the battery is fully charged it will be fine.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

:thumbup: Once you get it pulling it should siphon out of the tank and down to the line and feed itself pretty well, really.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

heres a few pics


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

so clean:thumbup:^


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Thanks :beer:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

looks great


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

EA content FTW! :thumbup:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

YJSAABMAN said:


> EA content FTW! :thumbup:


Best $800 I've ever spent :thumbup:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Best $800 I've ever spent :thumbup:


What is EA?


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> What is EA?


Etienne Aigner edition 
http://www.cabby-info.com/etienne.htm


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Do those bronce thingies look right for obtaining vacuum? Or will it go ka-boom?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

yep those are for vacuum! smart place to take advantage of the injector holes:thumbup: Plus thats a sexy looking setup


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Anyone have any ideas as to why I can't get my motor to pull fuel in on it's own? Running r1 carbs and a Carter 4070, I have the pump ground to the block and getting 12v I have it wired in by it self to a on/off switch. Fpr is showing a steady 4psi, but the only way I can get it running is to dump fuel into the carbs and once that burns off it quits.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Anyone have any ideas as to why I can't get my motor to pull fuel in on it's own? Running r1 carbs and a Carter 4070, I have the pump ground to the block and getting 12v I have it wired in by it self to a on/off switch. Fpr is showing a steady 4psi, but the only way I can get it running is to dump fuel into the carbs and once that burns off it quits.


Have you given the idle mixture screws the mandatory 3 and a half turns out?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

ncbrock said:


> yep those are for vacuum! smart place to take advantage of the injector holes:thumbup: Plus thats a sexy looking setup


That's from a dude in Guatemala, whom I'm helping, I had the doubt if those were good places to get vacuum from.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

pnavarro said:


> Have you given the idle mixture screws the mandatory 3 and a half turns out?


No I haven't touched them, this set of carbs was just recently used on a different car, I left them the way he had them.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> No I haven't touched them, this set of carbs was just recently used on a different car, I left them the way he had them.


have you primed the system for a while? at my first start up, it took me about 5-10 minutes to get it to start. once the fuel bowls filled up, the car had no problems. also, take the fuel line off the carbs and see how much fuel are you actually getting, dont rely on the fuel pressure regulator as of yet.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

I have had the pump running for a few min to check for leaks when I first installed it but I never really primed it. I'll give that a shot, thanks:thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I have had the pump running for a few min to check for leaks when I first installed it but I never really primed it. I'll give that a shot, thanks:thumbup:


I meant prime the carbs.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

I knew what you meant. I think I'm going to try a new battery. Watching the fuel pressure gauge out in the bay it drops to almost 0 when the motor is turning over.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I knew what you meant. I think I'm going to try a new battery. Watching the fuel pressure gauge out in the bay it drops to almost 0 when the motor is turning over.


Get a battery tender


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

Sorry to post this here again but I've got a complete set up with a carter @4070 pump and Holley fpr carbs and manifold for a 8v cross flow complete for 400. Text me at 5412232852. I'm on the road a lot so bare with me if your interested based on where I'm at in regards to me getting it shipped off. I posted a lot earlier in this forum as both a counter flow builder and cross flow.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> Get a battery tender


I have one, I let it slow charge over night before atempting to start it. Either the starter is on its way out or I need a battery with higher CCA.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I have one, I let it slow charge over night before atempting to start it. Either the starter is on its way out or I need a battery with higher CCA.


i run a motorcycle battery with 310cca, no problems.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Yeah but what's your compression? I'm running 12:1, it turns over hard.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Yeah but what's your compression? I'm running 12:1, it turns over hard.


no idea what it is. my head has been decked so i get about 225-235 psi per cylinder. it will crank over harder with carbs and it will take longer to start the car.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

whats everyone doing for crankcase venting? got my carbed aba running, but blew the rear main seal. was thinking due to crankcase being blocked off?...what would be a good way to route cankcase back into the engine. not really wanting to fab a catch can...


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

yorgerg said:


> whats everyone doing for crankcase venting? got my carbed aba running, but blew the rear main seal. was thinking due to crankcase being blocked off?...what would be a good way to route cankcase back into the engine. not really wanting to fab a catch can...


 Right now I just have a heater hose connected to mine that dumps under the car.
You dont have to fab one, you can get a fairly cheep one from summit or jegs :thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> whats everyone doing for crankcase venting? got my carbed aba running, but blew the rear main seal. was thinking due to crankcase being blocked off?...what would be a good way to route cankcase back into the engine. not really wanting to fab a catch can...


Got a catch can on mine.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

rysskii3 said:


> Got a catch can on mine.


You guys got pics? I also am running a catch can but it seems like there is a lot of crankcase pressure still.:banghead:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

funpig said:


> You guys got pics? I also am running a catch can but it seems like there is a lot of crankcase pressure still.:banghead:


check out my build thread in the sig,
i have a dual breather setup, one for the block and one for the valve cover all connected to the same catch can.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

You should try and do the old school crank vent through the exhaust. That's what I should have done in the first place


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> have you primed the system for a while? at my first start up, it took me about 5-10 minutes to get it to start. once the fuel bowls filled up, the car had no problems. also, take the fuel line off the carbs and see how much fuel are you actually getting, dont rely on the fuel pressure regulator as of yet.


 got it running, thanks for your help :beer:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> got it running, thanks for your help :beer:


 was it what i said? 
you welcome. :beer:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> was it what i said?
> you welcome. :beer:


 Yes, I had to force fuel through them a few times, now it starts with just a key turn.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Yes, I had to force fuel through them a few times, now it starts with just a key turn.


 Sweet


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

crappy point and shoot video. 
fans arent working properly so I haven't really tuned it yet


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Niiiice!


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> crappy point and shoot video.
> fans arent working properly so I haven't really tuned it yet


 :thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)




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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


>


 :thumbup: good choice! I have the same one


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> :thumbup: good choice! I have the same one


 no idea how it works, but it does look good while the car is in the garage. :laugh:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Still having troubles with cold starts, doesn't seem to want to pull fuel in, I've swapped out the starter for a high tourqe one so its cranking at a good rpm. Any ideas? If I blow into the two plastic vents on top of the carbs it starts right up, and once it's built up some heat it will start on it's own.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Still having troubles with cold starts, doesn't seem to want to pull fuel in, I've swapped out the starter for a high tourqe one so its cranking at a good rpm. Any ideas? If I blow into the two plastic vents on top of the carbs it starts right up, and once it's built up some heat it will start on it's own.


 its pretty normal for carbs to have a hard time starting up when its cold. what oil are you using?


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Right now I just have some castrol 10-30 in it that I had sitting in the garage I plan on switching to something else once it's broken in. If I don't blown into those two vents it won't even stutter like it's trying to start it just cranks.


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## junn1227 (Dec 17, 2007)

I own a 1979 MK1 Rabbit and recently got the 16v bike carb (R1) set up running. I'm experiencing issues with motor vibration and fuel pressure. The rough fuel pressure may be contributing to the vibration of the motor but it is quite insane. The motor vibrates likes its on a shaker table and it's annoying the heck out of me. Cold starts especially and gets a little better after the engine warms up, but still noticeable. What could be the culprit? The engine mounts will soon need to be replaced but I feel like it's much more than that. 

The fuel pressure is inconsistent. I sometimes get 2.5 - 3 psi but today seeing only 1 psi. I'm running a Carter fuel pump and Holley FPR with 1.75 main jets. Should I go up to 2mm jets? I did notice fuel seeping out of the carbs, could that be contributing to the loss in fuel pressure? 

Any input is much appreciated. 
:beer:


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Right now I just have some castrol 10-30 in it that I had sitting in the garage I plan on switching to something else once it's broken in. If I don't blown into those two vents it won't even stutter like it's trying to start it just cranks.


 


I haven't any problems starting on 10w30, but when i changed it to 50 weight full racing oil, I did notice that cold starts are taking a long time. I have to prime the carbs for a little and then play with the throttle to get it started. Once the car is warm, no problems.




junn1227 said:


> I own a 1979 MK1 Rabbit and recently got the 16v bike carb (R1) set up running. I'm experiencing issues with motor vibration and fuel pressure. The rough fuel pressure may be contributing to the vibration of the motor but it is quite insane. The motor vibrates likes its on a shaker table and it's annoying the heck out of me. Cold starts especially and gets a little better after the engine warms up, but still noticeable. What could be the culprit? The engine mounts will soon need to be replaced but I feel like it's much more than that.
> 
> The fuel pressure is inconsistent. I sometimes get 2.5 - 3 psi but today seeing only 1 psi. I'm running a Carter fuel pump and Holley FPR with 1.75 main jets. Should I go up to 2mm jets? I did notice fuel seeping out of the carbs, could that be contributing to the loss in fuel pressure?
> 
> ...


 Is the fuel leaking from the fuel bowl? If so, replace the gaskets. Changing fuel jets can cause more problems unless you run a wideband and know what your AFR is.


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## junn1227 (Dec 17, 2007)

rysskii3 said:


> Is the fuel leaking from the fuel bowl? If so, replace the gaskets. Changing fuel jets can cause more problems unless you run a wideband and know what your AFR is.


 Yup, fuel is leaking from the fuel bowl. I'm ordering the gaskets from a nearby Yamaha dealer tomorrow. I'll try to work with the fuel jets I have now but a wideband is something I'm considering in the near future. Can't wait for this baby to be my dd :laugh:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> I haven't any problems starting on 10w30, but when i changed it to 50 weight full racing oil, I did notice that cold starts are taking a long time. I have to prime the carbs for a little and then play with the throttle to get it started. Once the car is warm, no problems.


 I've tried letting it prime for a bit and playing with the throttle, no deal. It will crank till the battery dies before it will start if I dont manually force fuel in.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I've tried letting it prime for a bit and playing with the throttle, no deal. It will crank till the battery dies before it will start if I dont manually force fuel in.


 i dont know what to tell you there :laugh:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> i dont know what to tell you there :laugh:


 Yeah, I don't get it either. It's a simple set up. I'm going to pull them apart and clean them really good, if that doesn't work then I'm ditching them for somehing else.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Yeah, I don't get it either. It's a simple set up. I'm going to pull them apart and clean them really good, if that doesn't work then I'm ditching them for somehing else.


 I'm afraid to pull mine apart. But i am taking the car very soon to get dyno tuned.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> I'm afraid to pull mine apart. But i am taking the car very soon to get dyno tuned.


 Bike carbs are stupid simple to take apart.:sly:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

going back to filter conversation from a while back. i decided to get k&n universal cone filters RU-2320 or RU-2930. 
the 2320 is slightly (0.8cm) longer than 2930, but other than that they are both identical. does it matter which one i pick in terms of performance? 

2320 









2930


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I would get the bigger filters if you can fit them. which likely wont be the case unfortunately


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I would get the bigger filters if you can fit them. which likely wont be the case unfortunately


 The bigger filters would fit fine, the set I have now is actually 3-5mm longer.
I called the dyno shop that will be doing the tuning also recommend the larger filters. Funny thing is that larger filters are cheaper.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

With the difficult startups you guys were talking about earlier..... do you have a choke cable setup? I had problems initially but once I hooked up the choke I can start my little pig anytime regardless of the weight of the oil.

On another note.... any of you guys having problems with oil pressure blowing out your seals? I have changed both my front and rear mains twice now and that works fine for a short time but I start leaking oil like a little *bish*. Its getting terribly frustrating. I installed a catch can which I thought would help but I am still leaking and also noticed oil coming up around the bushing around the distributor even though I have changed those O-rings twice as well.
THoughts???:banghead:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

funpig said:


> With the difficult startups you guys were talking about earlier..... do you have a choke cable setup? I had problems initially but once I hooked up the choke I can start my little pig anytime regardless of the weight of the oil.
> 
> On another note.... any of you guys having problems with oil pressure blowing out your seals? I have changed both my front and rear mains twice now and that works fine for a short time but I start leaking oil like a little *bish*. Its getting terribly frustrating. I installed a catch can which I thought would help but I am still leaking and also noticed oil coming up around the bushing around the distributor even though I have changed those O-rings twice as well.
> THoughts???:banghead:


i cant even start with choke on. i havent had any seals pop but i do have a valve cover connected to a catch can.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

I don't have a choke either, but I've figured out the issue.. Combination of the carbs not staying primed and my mega squirt warmup settings being way off.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I don't have a choke either, but I've figured out the issue.. Combination of the carbs not staying primed and my mega squirt warmup settings being way off.


No, I have the choke cable. The car just doesn't like starting on it.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> No, I have the choke cable. The car just doesn't like starting on it.


i think im going to switch from valvoline vr1 sae 50 to vr1 20w-50. maybe that will help with easier start ups.


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> i think im going to switch from valvoline vr1 sae 50 to vr1 20w-50. maybe that will help with easier start ups.


Yeah that stuff is super thick!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

@ rysskii3: Just run a piece of vacuum tubing into the cabin so you can blow into the carbs from the driver's seat, problem solved! :laugh:

@ funpig: Are you running an 8V or 16V? If an 8V, what valve cover are you using and is the screen on the PCV port clean and clear?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> @ rysskii3: Just run a piece of vacuum tubing into the cabin so you can blow into the carbs from the driver's seat, problem solved! :laugh:
> 
> @ funpig: Are you running an 8V or 16V? If an 8V, what valve cover are you using and is the screen on the PCV port clean and clear?


i dont think so. :laugh:


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

SAABMAN.. I'm running an 8v with a corrado valve cover and a catch can. No leaking from the top but the bottom end leaks oil like a little MOFO. Getting tired of the spots underneath all the time. Have changed out my seals front and back twice and am looking at changing out my distributor from the 1.8/2.0 combo with TT bushing to the 2.0 with the guts/4window of the 1.8 so that I can seal up the distributor whole better.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

IIRC, none of those seals are under any pressure are they? the only oil that hits them should be oil bveing splashed around from the crankshaft or the cams for the distributor.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

So heres a pic of my bay. (i know...more whoring) 
YEAYEA... there shouldn't be that much pressure but I know on startups my oil pressure gauge hits 100psi for a few blips before it settles down as the motor and oil warm up. same as it has always been on my caddy.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Oil pressure numbers at cold start sound right, but OTH yeayeayea is also correct that none of those seals should see that kind of pressure. I'd check the inside of the valve cover to make sure the port is clear and maybe you need a larger hose to the catch can? If you think about it the ABA was designed with the block breather setup, too, and with that blocked off in this application it may need more flow out the top. The hose you have running to the catch can looks much smaller than that PITA plastic tube that runs from the block breather PCV valve on the stock ABA setup.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Oil pressure numbers at cold start sound right, but OTH yeayeayea is also correct that none of those seals should see that kind of pressure. I'd check the inside of the valve cover to make sure the port is clear and maybe you need a larger hose to the catch can? If you think about it the ABA was designed with the block breather setup, too, and with that blocked off in this application it may need more flow out the top. The hose you have running to the catch can looks much smaller than that PITA plastic tube that runs from the block breather PCV valve on the stock ABA setup.


i have read that blocking off the block breather is not a good idea. run a hose to the catch can from there.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

Thanks guys. I will go ahead and add an additional line to the catch can and probably end up moving it to a new location. let you know how it works.
:beer:
MikeB


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

yeah afaik the only pressure on the main seals should be crankcase pressure, not actual engine oil pressure. Same with the distributor if im not mistaken, although it may have an oil pressure passage to keep that lubricated, I do not know if it does or not.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

anyone know a good place to buy mixture screws for r1 carbs.. mine are non- existant....explains pretty much all of the issues I've been having :facepalm:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> anyone know a good place to buy mixture screws for r1 carbs.. mine are non- existant....explains pretty much all of the issues I've been having :facepalm:


http://www.jetsrus.com/


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> http://www.jetsrus.com/



thanks :beer:


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

ok so here's what i got for the crankcase ventilation. ran a hose from the engine block to the valve cover then t'd into the brake booster line with the little red vac. restictor from a 16v. the idea is to suck the vapors from the cankcase back into the cyinderhead to be burned. hopefully this will take the pressure that blew out my rear main seal out of the engine block....? what do you guys think?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Can you safely pull a vacuum on your crankcase without sucking your seals in? Although I am not convinced you could pull a strong vacuum through that restrictor.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> anyone know a good place to buy mixture screws for r1 carbs.. mine are non- existant....explains pretty much all of the issues I've been having :facepalm:





yeayeayea said:


> Can you safely pull a vacuum on your crankcase without sucking your seals in? Although I am not convinced you could pull a strong vacuum through that restrictor.


how about just pulling vac from cylinder 4 runner?


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> http://www.jetsrus.com/


All they have here for the 99-01 carbs is main jets. Will the pilot jets from the 95-98 work?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> All they have here for the 99-01 carbs is main jets. Will the pilot jets from the 95-98 work?


No idea. All I needed was the main jets and this is the only site I could find that had a nice selection.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Can you safely pull a vacuum on your crankcase without sucking your seals in? Although I am not convinced you could pull a strong vacuum through that restrictor.


just from starting it this morning and driving it around the building, no oil is coming out of the rear main anymore that i can see while the car is running. before after 2 minutes id start to loose a freak ton of oil thru the rear main. the crank case vent works under vacuum naturally anyway. on the mk3 2.0L the crank case as well as the cylinder head is is vented back into the intake boot to be burned back into the engine. on the mk2 16v that red restrictor comes off the vent tube from the block straight to the air box. not much is needed. check out the crankcase vent on the mk4. they too have a restrictor the same size...


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Thought this was a pretty cool find, I plan on having some made to fit my car 

http://www.pjmotorsports.com/velocity-stack-filters.html


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Thought this was a pretty cool find, I plan on having some made to fit my car
> 
> http://www.pjmotorsports.com/velocity-stack-filters.html


awesome. was trying to come up with a way to do the exact same thing...sweet post...:beer:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> awesome. was trying to come up with a way to do the exact same thing...sweet post...:beer:


I finally ordered the k&n filters. They should be here today, so I'll post pictures later.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Here you go. Perfect fit. My AFR ratio increased by about .5-1.0 with the new filters. I was getting mid 12s with the old filters. So I took them apart and noticed that the filter material was something like the fleece stuff and it was soaked in motor oil.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

yorgerg said:


> just from starting it this morning and driving it around the building, no oil is coming out of the rear main anymore that i can see while the car is running. before after 2 minutes id start to loose a freak ton of oil thru the rear main. the crank case vent works under vacuum naturally anyway. on the mk3 2.0L the crank case as well as the cylinder head is is vented back into the intake boot to be burned back into the engine. on the mk2 16v that red restrictor comes off the vent tube from the block straight to the air box. not much is needed. check out the crankcase vent on the mk4. they too have a restrictor the same size...


The difference is it is vented back in before the throttle body, where there is not any vacuum really, since the only pressure difference from atmosphere comes from the restriction of the air filter and any siphon effect of air being pulled over the opening of the crank case vent in the intake tract. Only the parts of the intake after the throttle body are in strong vacuum, which if you pulled a strong vacuum on your block you could very well suck your shaft seals in.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> The difference is it is vented back in before the throttle body, where there is not any vacuum really, since the only pressure difference from atmosphere comes from the restriction of the air filter and any siphon effect of air being pulled over the opening of the crank case vent in the intake tract. Only the parts of the intake after the throttle body are in strong vacuum, which if you pulled a strong vacuum on your block you could very well suck your shaft seals in.


granted which is why i need some vacuum, not much, but some to help vent the crankcase. i have recently done some modifications. the first attmept at this failed sooner than expected. after about 10 min of ripping the hell outta the eng. instead of rear main seal leaking, i get oil from the cylinderhead coming up thru the vac port to the brake booster. thought about it for a sec and noticed that i had nothing in between the vent tube and the free area inside the cylinderhead. so i took an early cis valve cover baffle out and grafted it into my aba. no oil coming thru at all dry as a bone. both rear main seal and vent tubes....


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> Here you go. Perfect fit. My AFR ratio increased by about .5-1.0 with the new filters. I was getting mid 12s with the old filters. So I took them apart and noticed that the filter material was something like the fleece stuff and it was soaked in motor oil.


Nice :beer:

how long are those and how close the the hood are they?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Nice :beer:
> 
> how long are those and how close the the hood are they?


Check out the k&n site for 2320 the 2930 is half an inch shorter. There are plenty of clearance under the hood. It will depend on how your carbs are mounted.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)




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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

So, who has whp numbers!! yeayeayea got 138 at the wheels with a little bit of engine work. I'd like to know what everybody else is pushing. I'd like to hit 150whp on my 2.0 16v with a ported head, exhaust, and a freshly rebuilt head and block. I think it would be awsome if I could pull vr6 numbers out of r1 carbs with some bolt ons and mild headwork. Anyone think its doable?? I say yes if I can tune them good enough.:laugh: 

yeayeayea's
http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac228/yeayeayea1/CBR 900 Carbs/vw1816vstockvsmodifieddyno.jpg


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

bmwquick said:


> So, who has whp numbers!! yeayeayea got 138 at the wheels with a little bit of engine work. I'd like to know what everybody else is pushing. I'd like to hit 150whp on my 2.0 16v with a ported head, exhaust, and a freshly rebuilt head and block. I think it would be awsome if I could pull vr6 numbers out of r1 carbs with some bolt ons and mild headwork. Anyone think its doable?? I say yes if I can tune them good enough.:laugh:
> 
> yeayeayea's
> http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac228/yeayeayea1/CBR 900 Carbs/vw1816vstockvsmodifieddyno.jpg


I think it's doable. Add a nice set of cams and a stand alone ecu so you can really tweak the ignition settings.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I hope to see something around that 138 number out of my ABA with healthy cam and some head work. If it comes down to pistons, we'll go that route.  Want to start tuning them on a 100% stock engine to see how close I can get to stock management ABA numbers. Then again, I need to get the car on the road before that can happen. :laugh:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

bmwquick said:


> So, who has whp numbers!! yeayeayea got 138 at the wheels with a little bit of engine work. I'd like to know what everybody else is pushing. I'd like to hit 150whp on my 2.0 16v with a ported head, exhaust, and a freshly rebuilt head and block. I think it would be awsome if I could pull vr6 numbers out of r1 carbs with some bolt ons and mild headwork. Anyone think its doable?? I say yes if I can tune them good enough.:laugh:
> 
> yeayeayea's
> http://i902.photobucket.com/albums/ac228/yeayeayea1/CBR 900 Carbs/vw1816vstockvsmodifieddyno.jpg


The video to go with my 137whp pull. probably had around 140k miles, 1.8 16v, decked head, 3 angle valve job, autotech cams, eurosport header, no cat, 2.25" tt with borla muffler.


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## vswords32 (Mar 14, 2007)

im still mocking up stuff..getting there though





































has anyone used those sossage filters ? still not sure what filter/filters to use?


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

Ok so what type of fitting should I use to tap the intake runners for vacuum?

Fuel fittings look like they should work but they're too big. 

These are 1/4" NPT to 3/8 barb and too large for standard vac hose.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

I used 6an fuel line and fittings for mine threaded the hole where a injector would normally go with a 1/4 npt to 6an adapter

Can't really see it here but I used a 90d swivle hose end


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

bmwquick said:


> Ok so what type of fitting should I use to tap the intake runners for vacuum?
> 
> Fuel fittings look like they should work but they're too big.
> 
> These are 1/4" NPT to 3/8 barb and too large for standard vac hose.


Look in my sign for my project build. I just tapped into the rubber coupler on each cylinder.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

you said "runners" so are you going to be running a vacuum manifold? When you drill your runners you dont need a huge hole. drill a small 3-4mm pilot hole all the way through then just drill a larger hole (not all the way through) so you can tap it. Most vacuum hose is 1\4" so get something smaller you might have to order from mcmaster as lowes doesnt usually carry small stuff like that


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I used 6an fuel line and fittings for mine threaded the hole where a injector would normally go with a 1/4 npt to 6an adapter
> 
> Can't really see it here but I used a 90d swivle hose end



Thats a good idea if your using part of the stock manifold but unfortunatly mines custom.



rysskii3 said:


> Look in my sign for my project build. I just tapped into the rubber coupler on each cylinder.


I dont think that would work, the ends of the carbs are touching the manifold runners in mine. Theres no space.



ncbrock said:


> you said "runners" so are you going to be running a vacuum manifold? When you drill your runners you dont need a huge hole. drill a small 3-4mm pilot hole all the way through then just drill a larger hole (not all the way through) so you can tap it. Most vacuum hose is 1\4" so get something smaller you might have to order from mcmaster as lowes doesnt usually carry small stuff like that


I originally wanted to tap each runner but I think one will be enough. I found one of these at summit racing. They're 1/16 NPT to 1/8" barb. 










its $15 a piece! So if I did want to tap all four it would cost $60 just for vac nipples.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

have you tried mcmaster-carr? you can probably get like 20 for $5:laugh:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Staccccks 
And yes they do clear the hood. I'm going to get some screen filters for them also. He said he can make filters to go directly on the carbs. 

Pjmotorsports.com awesome customer service. Ordered last Friday they were at my door yesterday.


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## forestgreenjett (Jan 20, 2009)

*Need some help*

I'm running r1 carbs on my aba with a vaccum advanced distributor and can't seem toget it to run right it sputters when ever I get on it and try driving it idles just back fires and pops any suggestions ?


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Sounds to me like your distributor timing is off or the wires are in the wrong order. I'd check that first.


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## forestgreenjett (Jan 20, 2009)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Sounds to me like your distributor timing is off or the wires are in the wrong order. I'd check that first.


 The distributor is turned counter clockwise to the point that the hall sensor is resting against the motor is this wronge ?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

forestgreenjett said:


> The distributor is turned counter clockwise to the point that the hall sensor is resting against the motor is this wronge ?


 what distributor are you using? do you have a picture?


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## forestgreenjett (Jan 20, 2009)

yeayeayea said:


> what distributor are you using? do you have a picture?


 I'm running a vaccum advanced distributor off a mk1 rabbit off a 1.8 
 
Sorry about the size couldn't figur out how to shrink it down


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

forestgreenjett said:


> The distributor is turned counter clockwise to the point that the hall sensor is resting against the motor is this wronge ?


 Get a timing gun and check your timing.


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Staccccks
> And yes they do clear the hood. I'm going to get some screen filters for them also. He said he can make filters to go directly on the carbs.
> 
> Pjmotorsports.com awesome customer service. Ordered last Friday they were at my door yesterday.


 
Whoa. Which kit is that??


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Pjm 45kit 
I spoke with them about also making filters to fit directly on the carbs and they can do it. You just need to call and tell them exactly what you need.


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Pjm 45kit
> I spoke with them about also making filters to fit directly on the carbs and they can do it. You just need to call and tell them exactly what you need.


 Not bad for $79.99. How are they held on?? 

I'd buy a set but then I'd also have to buy the filters at $30 a pop. Which is reasonable, but too much for me.:laugh:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

They are held on with clamps. Your going to spend close to that for any filter kit you buy. 



Edit: anyone with r1 carbs played with the needle heights to get a little more fuel? It's so close that I think drilling the jets would be too much


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## keeton (Aug 16, 2010)

Question: Can anyone with a 16v in a Mk1 give me the approximate angle of the engine (maybe angle of the top of the valve cover) sitting in the car and the angle of the carbs mounted up to the engine? I need to build my manifold, but sitting the 16v in to take measurements isn't an option as I have to drive the car every day. 

Any help would be appreciated. :thumbup:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

top of the valve cover should be level to the ground


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> They are held on with clamps. Your going to spend close to that for any filter kit you buy.
> 
> 
> 
> Edit: anyone with r1 carbs played with the needle heights to get a little more fuel? It's so close that I think drilling the jets would be too much


 Please post pics with filters when you get them!


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

Idle and WOT switches. Can someone please tell me how they affect ignition timing on the CIS-e knockbox setup? 

I've read the idle switch may be used to hold ignition timing steady so the idle doesn't hunt. Makes sense but what about the WOT switch?? Does it affect ignition timing at all?? I'd guess its for fuel enrichment but I'm only worried about timing. 

I fired up the car with with the knockbox setup but I dont have cooling hooked up yet so I couldn't test anything.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

i dont have either of the throttle switches hooked up. My car drives fine


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

After thinking about it more I would say the WOT switch most likely doesn't affect ignition. Think idle switch could though. Yeyyeayea how's you idle?? Steady? 

I really want to hook them up so I can take full advantage of the knockbox setup but there's no reason if they wont affect ignition timing. Anyone have any input??


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Mine idles fine I suppose. It may help when you shift into neutral coming to a stop, im not sure. I have never tried the idle switch.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

bmwquick said:


> Idle and WOT switches. Can someone please tell me how they affect ignition timing on the CIS-e knockbox setup?
> 
> I've read the idle switch may be used to hold ignition timing steady so the idle doesn't hunt. Makes sense but what about the WOT switch?? Does it affect ignition timing at all?? I'd guess its for fuel enrichment but I'm only worried about timing.
> 
> I fired up the car with with the knockbox setup but I dont have cooling hooked up yet so I couldn't test anything.


 From all of my digging they both have a purpose. Granted, mine _still_ isn't running, yet, but that's because I want it all right!  

The idle switch puts the ICM/knockbox into a default timing curve to help keep the idle smooth. 

Now for the full throttle switch, I've heard it does have an effect on the ignition system, not just fuel enrichment. OTH, what I've heard it does doesn't make much sense to me. I've heard the full throttle switch cuts out the knock sensor to keep it from pulling timing from valvetrain noise. This seems to me to counter the purpose of the knock sensor, so I may still opt out of the full throttle switch. I still have to think that with hydraulic cam followers there should be much less "extra" valvetrain noise then in the early solid follower engines. 

I've already picked up a NOS micro switch for my idle switch and have started the template for my bracket. I plan to include a bit of a adjustment to fine tune it's switching point.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> From all of my digging they both have a purpose. Granted, mine _still_ isn't running, yet, but that's because I want it all right!
> 
> The idle switch puts the ICM/knockbox into a default timing curve to help keep the idle smooth.
> 
> ...


 are you guys trying to run the carbs with stock ignition? 
i run MSD setup (coil, start/retard, tach adapter, spark box 6a, oem ICM). i dont use any of the switched and my car idles perfectly while its still untuned.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> are you guys trying to run the carbs with stock ignition?
> i run MSD setup (coil, start/retard, tach adapter, spark box 6a, oem ICM). i dont use any of the switched and my car idles perfectly while its still untuned.


 Same here, I have no switches. Running a ms1 board to control the coil. Idle is steady and right at 1k once it's up to temp.


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> are you guys trying to run the carbs with stock ignition?
> i run MSD setup (coil, start/retard, tach adapter, spark box 6a, oem ICM). i dont use any of the switched and my car idles perfectly while its still untuned.





oldschool eighty8 said:


> Same here, I have no switches. Running a ms1 board to control the coil. Idle is steady and right at 1k once it's up to temp.


 Well you guys are only running the ICM without the knockbox. Deleting the knockbox automatically deletes the idle/wot switches since they're wired to the knockbox. Thats probably the best way to go but MSD costs money compared to the 100% OEM knockbox setup I ripped out of picknpull for $30.:laugh: 



YJSAABMAN said:


> From all of my digging they both have a purpose. Granted, mine _still_ isn't running, yet, but that's because I want it all right!
> 
> The idle switch puts the ICM/knockbox into a default timing curve to help keep the idle smooth.
> 
> ...


 Well I pm'ed B4S here who's run the setup before and he said pretty much exactly that. 

"Yep, the idle switch locks the timing at idle. The WOT switch may be for fueling, but I have no idea. I'm fairly certain that it also disables the knock sensor above a certain RPM, to account for valvetrain noise. You can run without the WOT switch with no ill effects, and even the idle switch if you have a mild cam. A lumpy cam might idle better with the switch, IMO. I ran with them both and without them both and noticed barely any difference in the car when carbed ." 

If you get a custom cut bracket for your switches I'll gladly pay for an extra!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

bmwquick said:


> Well you guys are only running the ICM without the knockbox. Deleting the knockbox automatically deletes the idle/wot switches since they're wired to the knockbox. Thats probably the best way to go but MSD costs money compared to the 100% OEM knockbox setup I ripped out of picknpull for $30.:laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, that's who I heard it from, too. And with the compression ratio of an ABA and screwing around with timing and fuel in this manner I definitely want that knock sensor!


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

forestgreenjett said:


> I'm running a vaccum advanced distributor off a mk1 rabbit off a 1.8
> 
> Sorry about the size couldn't figur out how to shrink it down


Am I seeing this right? You've got a vacuum line coming off of cylinder #4, _then_ the check valve, _then_ your vacuum line to the distributor? With this setup the distributor will always see high vacuum, even when you are at WOT! Does this work for you?

-Alex


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## keeton (Aug 16, 2010)

20v_boost said:


> Am I seeing this right? You've got a vacuum line coming off of cylinder #4, _then_ the check valve, _then_ your vacuum line to the distributor? With this setup the distributor will always see high vacuum, even when you are at WOT! Does this work for you?
> 
> -Alex


Same here. Confuzzled.


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## aldin270 (May 13, 2011)

I've been looking over this thread for a few hours now and I haven't completely gone through it, but I'm interested in knowing do any of you guys daily drive these cars? How reliable have they been so far? Has the fuel consumption improved or gotten worse? I'm debating doing as similar set up on one of my 16v engines I have laying around, I plan on DD the car. 

Thanks.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

I daily my rabbit during the summer. Once the temps in the morning get around freezing it takes a little bit to start but it does. Also with my carbs facing the front of the car, when I rains hard or I'm in heavy traffic it likes sucking in water and stalling. I want to make a plenum for it someday. Other than that it runs wonderfully and is fun.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I daily'd mine for a month (webers) if I would have left it alone and stopped tinkering on it it would have been fine for a while. I got mine to start within 5 seconds even in the morning, every time. Fuel consumption sucked probably ~10mpg around town, but it sounded good:laugh:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

ncbrock said:


> I daily'd mine for a month (webers) if I would have left it alone and stopped tinkering on it it would have been fine for a while. I got mine to start within 5 seconds even in the morning, every time. Fuel consumption sucked probably ~10mpg around town, but it sounded good:laugh:


Running Msd I take it? Sound is all that matters anyway :beer::laugh:


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

ncbrock said:


> I daily'd mine for a month (webers) if I would have left it alone and stopped tinkering on it it would have been fine for a while. I got mine to start within 5 seconds even in the morning, every time. Fuel consumption sucked probably ~10mpg around town, but it sounded good:laugh:


Wow 10 mpg? I at least get mid to upper teens depending on how I drive. a big 5th on the highway gives me low to mid twenties.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Running Msd I take it? Sound is all that matters anyway :beer::laugh:


yeah msd programmable, made starting a breeze. Never happened to take it on the highway, but my route to school everyday was stop sign to stop sign so it was constant stop and go. So 10mpg isnt unrealistic.


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## vswords32 (Mar 14, 2007)

has anyone ever dynojetted their carbs?
ive heard of lads drilling out their jets etc...but surely the needle will have to be compsenated for this?
the reason im asking is because i also ride a zx6r,which was always going a bit rough on idle and cutting out every now and again on tick over,but on wide open throttle it seemed fine,so i got them chemically cleaned up and balanced correctly and the difference was night and day.
the lad that did the job said they were badly gunked up and the floats were way off cusing it to run on 3 cylinders also causing it to run rich on idle and up to about 3-5k rpm.
while i was chatting to him i asked him bout my r1's and he basically said not to drill out the jets as it will cause running issues,and be missmatched with the the needles etc.
any ideas?
sort of has me thinking bout getting a dynojet kit?


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

From what ive seen and herd those kits don't have big enough jets for a car motor.


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## aldin270 (May 13, 2011)

so in other words, poor fuel economy? Has everyone had the same fuel economy? or is it just once case. I want to DD my car and i need somewhat decent fuel economy, and that will depend on if i want to do this set up or not.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I dont remember what mine gets, I will check it out and report back

Last night 









1/8th mile into last night  serpentine belt.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

What do you consider poor fuel economy. The four carbs should instantly be a flag for, this will probably be worse on gas than F.I. like I said for me, mid twenties on highway depending on speed. Mid to upper teens around town if I drive it normal. Has better mpg in the city than my a6.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

86Franklin said:


> What do you consider poor fuel economy. The four carbs should instantly be a flag for, this will probably be worse on gas than F.I. like I said for me, mid twenties on highway depending on speed. Mid to upper teens around town if I drive it normal. Has better mpg in the city than my a6.


i go through 1/4 of gas in less than an hour of city driving


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Any of you guys tried shimming the stock r1 needles? I have what I think is a transitional lean going on at part throttle.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

rysskii3 said:


> i go through 1/4 of gas in less than an hour of city driving


Ive gone through 1/2 a tank this week driving around 20 miles a day. Both city and highway combined.

Edit to oldschool: I've changed the height of my needles ones and it didn't run very well. It was very boogy.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*WOT Sensor*

If memory serves me well enough, it is essentaily the same as alling about 8-10k oms resistance to the coolant sensor which advances the timing and increased differential fuel pressure in the cis-e system. So yes, finding a way to keep that WOT sensor functional on a carb setup with CIS-E knock box would be benifical. Let me know how you manage to set it up if you do. I haven't got that far yet.
It is just a switch though, you could use any switch to activate a coolant sensor resistor to the same effect and pick your level of resistance hence the level of timing advance.
I do wonder though if there are any electronics geeks out there who could intergrate this concept into the throttle position sensor that came standard on the r1 carb set up., to generate a resistance value that equates into a desireable range of timing advance through the coolant sensor directly..
I wonder???


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Fuel*

In relation to the fueling issue, I have been contemplating the effect of atmospheric pressure on the numerous vents on the carbs, on the stock setup they were vented into the air box generating negative pressure under acceleration, I've consitered a passive emmisions system in which a vented oil catch can (possably containing charcol) accumulates and vents into the intake through a port in a coupling between the air filter and carbs.
Has anyone had any issues regarding pressure diffrences in the ventaliation on the carbs??
Should I worry about this?
I've heard some say to block them which sounds foolish.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

bmwquick said:


> Idle and WOT switches. Can someone please tell me how they affect ignition timing on the CIS-e knockbox setup?
> 
> I've read the idle switch may be used to hold ignition timing steady so the idle doesn't hunt. Makes sense but what about the WOT switch?? Does it affect ignition timing at all?? I'd guess its for fuel enrichment but I'm only worried about timing.
> 
> I fired up the car with with the knockbox setup but I dont have cooling hooked up yet so I couldn't test anything.


Oh, ya WOT switch only has an effect after 4k or so RPM.
My initail post to this is a bit further down stream.
The throttle position sensor is essentaily a pointometer how can I use the stock r1 thtottle position to give my stock knock box an input that will be benifical?
As far as basic ergonomics, the throttle position seems more practical than a jerry rigged WOT switch. 
I don't know how you would mount it.
But if anyone does please send me a pic. I'm curious.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Carb vents*

Even though this looks like a very strait forward bike to car transition this is often the work of fabrocators. 
How did you vent those vent lines?
I think that this is a common misconsiteration.
Those vents are there to reduce pressues even gain negative pressure as the throttle plate rises.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

vrally said:


> In relation to the fueling issue, I have been contemplating the effect of atmospheric pressure on the numerous vents on the carbs, on the stock setup they were vented into the air box generating negative pressure under acceleration, I've consitered a passive emmisions system in which a vented oil catch can (possably containing charcol) accumulates and vents into the intake through a port in a coupling between the air filter and carbs.
> Has anyone had any issues regarding pressure diffrences in the ventaliation on the carbs??
> Should I worry about this?
> I've heard some say to block them which sounds foolish.


Vents to the bowls or where? The vent to my bowls are open to the air.


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

vrally said:


> If memory serves me well enough, it is essentaily the same as alling about 8-10k oms resistance to the coolant sensor which advances the timing and increased differential fuel pressure in the cis-e system. So yes, finding a way to keep that WOT sensor functional on a carb setup with CIS-E knock box would be benifical. Let me know how you manage to set it up if you do. I haven't got that far yet.
> It is just a switch though, you could use any switch to activate a coolant sensor resistor to the same effect and pick your level of resistance hence the level of timing advance.
> *I do wonder though if there are any electronics geeks out there who could intergrate this concept into the throttle position sensor that came standard on the r1 carb set up., to generate a resistance value that equates into a desireable range of timing advance through the coolant sensor directly..
> I wonder???*


I never thouht about that. So use the throttle position sensor on the R1 carbs to provide a varying voltage to to the knockbox instead of the on/off throttle switches? That sounds really cool if its possible but I dont see how the knockbox would react to the varying voltage instead of the stock on/off throttle switches. Instead of trying to figure that out you might as well just get the MSD programable box and be done with it. If you try it please post results!




vrally said:


> In relation to the fueling issue, I have been contemplating the effect of atmospheric pressure on the numerous vents on the carbs, on the stock setup they were vented into the air box generating negative pressure under acceleration, I've consitered a passive emmisions system in which a vented oil catch can (possably containing charcol) accumulates and vents into the intake through a port in a coupling between the air filter and carbs.
> Has anyone had any issues regarding pressure diffrences in the ventaliation on the carbs??
> Should I worry about this?
> I've heard some say to block them which sounds foolish.


The only setup I've seen that were not vented to atmo were turbo setups which have the float bowl and diaphram vents hooked to manifold pressure. That way fueling stays consistent with boost pressure. I left mine open and will probably ziptie something breahable around them. I wouldn't plug them. See here:http://www.turbo-bike.net/Pressurize carbs.htm


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## forestgreenjett (Jan 20, 2009)

20v_boost said:


> Am I seeing this right? You've got a vacuum line coming off of cylinder #4, _then_ the check valve, _then_ your vacuum line to the distributor? With this setup the distributor will always see high vacuum, even when you are at WOT! Does this work for you?
> 
> -Alex


It runs pretty good the only issue that im having right now is when i come to a stop or go to shift when i push the clutch in it revs its self pretty high not sure what todo about it any suggestions would be nice


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

What timing are you running? With it plumbed the way you have it, you'll always be running the full vacuum advance. Do your carbs have a vacuum port just before the throttle plates?

The revving when coming to a stop sounds like you're getting unwanted air into the engine. Are your throttle plates closing all the way like they should? I don't have any carb experience, I run MS.

-Alex


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Too much timing advance will do that


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## forestgreenjett (Jan 20, 2009)

I'm not sure what I'm running for timeing I set it till it ran right the carbs are off a 99 Yamaha r1 I only tapped the 4th runner and ran vacuum off of there is there a better way to run vacuum?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Speaking of timing. I'm getting my car dyno tuned in the next few weeks.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> Speaking of timing. I'm getting my car dyno tuned in the next few weeks.


Make sure you post up the results!!

Does anyone know the ideal fuel flow rate? My carter died last night I'd like to pick up a pump locally today. Probably won't find a 4070.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

does your car have an in tank pump stock? Because that is all I use (89 gti 16v) and I made 138 whp with it, and was not starved for fuel at all.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

I took it out, I have it somewhere this car was a digi2 8v I'm not sure how similar the pump is to yours. 
I picked up a Mr.gasket pump from advanced auto today. Hopefully it holds up :thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I took it out, I have it somewhere this car was a digi2 8v I'm not sure how similar the pump is to yours.
> I picked up a Mr.gasket pump from advanced auto today. Hopefully it holds up :thumbup:


 I am using the OEM 8v intank pump that delivers fuel to the Carter pump, which is located in the OEM main pump location. So far so good. No fuel return line from fpr.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> I am using the OEM 8v intank pump that delivers fuel to the Carter pump, which is located in the OEM main pump location. So far so good. No fuel return line from fpr.


 was your 8v cis or digi? because the digi in tank pumps are higher pressure than the cis in tank pumps, since the cis had a second, external hi pressure pump.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> was your 8v cis or digi? because the digi in tank pumps are higher pressure than the cis in tank pumps, since the cis had a second, external hi pressure pump.


 Pretty sure it was a digi. I bought the car with 16 already swapped but all fueling was from an 8v. It was a regular 90 golf gl


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

yeayeayea said:


> was your 8v cis or digi? because the digi in tank pumps are higher pressure than the cis in tank pumps, since the cis had a second, external hi pressure pump.


 Digi has two pumps as well. Also to the person using the mr. Gasket pump, it will run fine until you get on it under load. It will starve the bowls. I found flow charts and the Mr gasket pump flow 45 gph at 5 psi while a holley red and carter 4070 flows something like 70 gph at 5 psi.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> Make sure you post up the results!!
> 
> Does anyone know the ideal fuel flow rate? My carter died last night I'd like to pick up a pump locally today. Probably won't find a 4070.


Getting the car dyno tuned on Tuesday by a Carb specialty shop. Super excited.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> Getting the car dyno tuned on Tuesday by a Carb specialty shop. Super excited.


 Got the carbs tuned today. Before the numbers, it was 90 degrees outside the shop and even hotter inside. After many many runs all day long, the very last run was the one they gave me figures of. Main jets are set at 2.0 and timing at wot is about +30-+40 degrees. A little bit of pinging was present with 91 octane fuel, but the tune was made mainly to run 100 octane race fuel. Lastly, the dyno was dyno dynamics. It is a very conservative dyno and is a heart breaker. 
Car made 136.2 whp and 130 toque at the wheels. The torque curve is pretty much linear from 2800 to about 5800.
Temp was 89°F.


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## bmwquick (May 17, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> Got the carbs tuned today. Before the numbers, it was 90 degrees outside the shop and even hotter inside. After many many runs all day long, the very last run was the one they gave me figures of. Main jets are set at 2.0 and timing at wot is about +30-+40 degrees. A little bit of pinging was present with 91 octane fuel, but the tune was made mainly to run 100 octane race fuel. Lastly, the dyno was dyno dynamics. It is a very conservative dyno and is a heart breaker.
> Car made 136.2 who and 127 toque at the wheels. The torque curve is pretty much linear from 2800 to about 5800.


 Not bad! Could you post the graph? I'd like to see how the hp and tq curves look. Does it feel like you lost some low end torque compared to stock?? It sure feels like mine did although i'm not yet finished tuning them 100%.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

I didn't drive the car much to feel if I lost power down low, but overall the car feels great and its a little faster than before. My next step is going to be another dyno (dynojet) with race fuel.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> I didn't drive the car much to feel if I lost power down low, but overall the car feels great and its a little faster than before. My next step is going to be another dyno (dynojet) with race fuel.


 Im guessing you do not have cams? 

My peak hp was made at 6500 rpm, autotech street cams. I made 138 with my 1,8, you definitely have some more power to squeek out of your 2.0 (I know you said it was a heart breaker dyno in your thread) 










The actual dyno, but in MPH instead of rpm


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Im guessing you do not have cams?
> 
> My peak hp was made at 6500 rpm, autotech street cams. I made 138 with my 1,8, you definitely have some more power to squeek out of your 2.0 (I know you said it was a heart breaker dyno in your thread)


 I have TT euro cams with sight p&p. The temp was 89 during the dyno. I think I'll hit 150-160 with cooler temps and on a dynojet. The guy that tuned my car has been working with carbs for over 30 years and confidently told me that I can make more power with fully adjustable ignition set up. Something like MSD midget.


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

I bought a set of 02 r1 itbs, I was wondering why I "have" to run a standalone system? I was planning on splicing in the tps, injectors, and a few other wires. I was also planning on running a fuel filter and fpr in bay.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

You have to run a standalone system because stock vw management has no provisions for a MAP sensor (aside from digi1 and 1.8t and newer management). 

Vw's use MAF's, which require the volume of all of the air to be metered, not just the pressure of all the air to be metered.


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Will it even run without the standalone but like crap? And is the MSD Ignition 6201 a good one to use? Kinda on a budget and I am not trying to spend a lot of money on just a standalone.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> Will it even run without the standalone but like crap? And is the MSD Ignition 6201 a good one to use? Kinda on a budget and I am not trying to spend a lot of money on just a standalone.


 6201 will work fine. Along with that, you will need rpm adapter, and maybe a few little things.


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

I think I read in your thread you had to use the rpm adapter, do you still have the part number? And do you mind elaborating on the few little things, I can't find a thread for itbs just found carbs.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> I think I read in your thread you had to use the rpm adapter, do you still have the part number? And do you mind elaborating on the few little things, I can't find a thread for itbs just found carbs.


 i dont have part number. if you look through this thread, then you will find that i bought one and it was the wrong one, then i bought the second one that worked. the part numbers are listed here somewhere. 
a few things can be anything that will require you to finish the project. it can be spark plugs, wires, fuel lines and so on.


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Ok thanks. Ok I have all new ones of those thanks for elaborating I didn't know if I had missed some info in the thread.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> Ok thanks. Ok I have all new ones of those thanks for elaborating I didn't know if I had missed some info in the thread.


 this is the setup i have right now. ignition box, start/retard, oem ICM, and rpm adapter (not shown). 
the few other things can also include wire splicing kit, electrical tape, heat shrink and ya. well you get the point. little things add up at the end.:banghead:


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks for the pic that will help a lot. Do I have to have the start/retard one too or is that just for simplicity of tuning?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> Thanks for the pic that will help a lot. Do I have to have the start/retard one too or is that just for simplicity of tuning?


 This timing control is the direct result of MSD being at the races and listening to what racers want. With the large number of engines running locked-out timing, racers wanted a simple way to retard the timing during cranking plus have a single stage of retard available for high rpm or nitrous.The Start/Retard Control lets you choose either 10° or 25° of retard during cranking only. The timing will retard only while cranking and returns to the set mechanical timing once the engine starts and you release the key or until the engine reaches 1,300 rpm.Along with the start retard feature, this Control also has a single stage of retard. This retard can be activated when nitrous is in use to prevent detonation or at high rpm to achieve a little more top end. The amount of retard is adjustable with plug-in modules and is activated by a single wire that can be connected directly to a nitrous solenoid or a micro switch on the shifter.The Start/Retard Control is easy to install and program and is supplied with 2°, 3° and 4° modules. It must be used with an MSD 6, SCI, 7, 8 or 10 Ignition Control.


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Ok thanks I will just stick with the 6201 and the tach adapter. Thanks for the help and info.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> Ok thanks I will just stick with the 6201 and the tach adapter. Thanks for the help and info.


 thats a good start, but how are you going to manage the ignition timing? are you going to use vacuum distributor? if not, then start retard box may be essential for when you are trying to start the cold car. also, a timing control box is a VERY good idea. I need one of those ASAP.


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

I was hoping playing with the distributor and adjustable cam gear would be enough.... And I'm not worried about cold starts mine are the fuel injected (itb) not carbs. Does msd sell the timing box too?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> I was hoping playing with the distributor and adjustable cam gear would be enough.... And I'm not worried about cold starts mine are the fuel injected (itb) not carbs. Does msd sell the timing box too?


 Look on their site, they have everything.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> I was hoping playing with the distributor and adjustable cam gear would be enough.... And I'm not worried about cold starts mine are the fuel injected (itb) not carbs. Does msd sell the timing box too?


 I dont think you want to go the msd route for ITB's. Sure that sorts out your ignition, but what are you doing about fueling? Stock engine management wont fuel the ITBs properly so your going to have to go stand alone, and most stand alone computers can do fuel,spark, and everything in one system. I think you need to do some more research


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

How wouldn't it fuel them properly? And I know standalone can do all of that I would rather not have to pay a massive amount for just a standalone if msd is working for everyone else and is 1/4th the price....


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

what hes saying is msd is ignition only. You'll never get itb's to run properly on stock fuel managment. Your better off buying a stand alone that is capable of controling both fuel and spark.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

90cabriolet98gti2.0 said:


> How wouldn't it fuel them properly? And I know standalone can do all of that I would rather not have to pay a massive amount for just a standalone if msd is working for everyone else and is 1/4th the price....


 yes, everyone here is running msd fine because they are running carbs not ITB's. Carbs mechanically inject the fuel and ITB's rely on a computer. A used Megasquirt setup will be about the same price as all the msd stuff you have to get fyi:thumbup:


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Thanks for the help


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## 90cabriolet98gti2.0 (Aug 27, 2012)

Nevermind on the itbs I got 2 40mm weber-italy for cheap and couldnt pass up the chance.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Where did you find the upper crankcase breather that adapts under the oil fill cap?
And beautiful intake manifold.
I was so proud of mine that I adapted from the stock manifold untill I test fit it last week and couldn't shut the hood. I'll be cutting it down this weekend and hoping round 2 will provide more accurate alignment with the carbs... And a hood that will close.
I was realy wanting to vent the valve cover, that is a simple and elegant solution.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> Where did you find the upper crankcase breather that adapts under the oil fill cap?
> And beautiful intake manifold.
> I was so proud of mine that I adapted from the stock manifold untill I test fit it last week and couldn't shut the hood. I'll be cutting it down this weekend and hoping round 2 will provide more accurate alignment with the carbs... And a hood that will close.
> I was realy wanting to vent the valve cover, that is a simple and elegant solution.


Early 2000s bug


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ICM to timing control, to stay retard, to 6A it ignition box + rpm module.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)




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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Not bad! Any cams in yours rysskii? 

Bought a house, been busy getting the bike carb'd project's new home ready for it. It's going to be so nice to be able to set this garage up how I want it! The epoxy paint went down on the floor last weekend.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Not bad! Any cams in yours rysskii?
> 
> Bought a house, been busy getting the bike carb'd project's new home ready for it. It's going to be so nice to be able to set this garage up how I want it! The epoxy paint went down on the floor last weekend.


I have tt euro cams


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

bought carbs. i got some keihin cvk40's anybody ever use these?


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Here's where I'm at.
My 89' GTI I swaped a 2.0 16v 9a into it. 
I ran it on the 1.8 PL's CIS-e system with some sucess but the fuel distributor was always an issue as was the injectors, I had a o2 guage hooked up and it would jump arround more than a rabbit at a dog show.
I bought Mikuni 40's off a yamaha r1. Cut the lower intake manifold down to about an inch from where the molding injector cups was about an inch away from the end of the runner. Now the carbs were alligned narrower than the runners but with good 3" 5 ply sylicon 2" to 1 3/4" reducers and a little trimming I got a manifold that I have relative faith in. And was able to shut the hood with the cone air filter just tuching the hood when closed.
The old injector cups removed a 1/2" to 3/8" NPT steel hardware store variety reducer bushing was threaded into. a 3/8 thread to 1/2" barbed fitting threaded into that. From there 1/2" fuel hose and 1/2" L and T fittings were configured and compiled in series and leading to the vaccume port for the brake booster, while also alowing for access to each individual port for dynamic vaccume syncronization of the throttle plates. 
Fueling is: in-tank transfer pump to 3/8 (AN-6) fuel line to clear glass fuel filter to holly 140 GPH low pressure pump to a large canister style fuel filter (to act as a fuel pulse damper), then to a T fitting 1 leading to the low pressure regulator set at about 3 psi then to the carbs themselves, the other line to cheep high pressure regulator set at arround 8-10 psi leading to return line to the fuel tank.
Fuel vent line from the charcol is run to a vaccum port placed in the top of the cone air filter along with the catch can vent for the crankcase and the various vents for the carbs.
Ignition is to be the stock knock sensor & electronics of the cis-e system. Am I hereing this right that there is no advance on this system? I'll be consitering a vaccume advance dizzy of so.
What car can I steal one from. Volvo turbo?
Need more info on an initial tune as carbs to manifold installing is an off the car endevor with my manifold to carb alignment. I want to get pretty close to start. No cat stock 1.8 2 1/8" exhaust w/1.8 8v GTI single outlet rear muffler, Stock 9a engine, R1 carbs on a short runner. Looking for midrange / low end over peak hp for now. 
Also throttle cable help. A part # would rock. I'm about to take brake cables off BMX and try it.
Am I missing anything??
I want to pull the choke from the dash. Farm and Home tractor choke cable was my first thought.
Thoughts?


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## RVWISBD (Jan 30, 2003)

Ok guys i recently decided to go to carbs after reading this thread so i traded a ABA long block for a setup as follows:

2001 R1 carbs

foam filters

manifold

couplers and clamps

carter fuel pump

holly FPR

mr gasket fp gauge

Saab turbo dizzy w/vac advance

Wide band

I have a 9A 2L 16V block that i am going to rehone and replace upper and lower bearings and rings. I will need throttle cable and choke cable. Now my question is where do i pull the vaccum off of for the dizzy? Can i T off the carbs vac? or does it really matter where as long it is vaccum?

The plan is to get it running then strap on a Gladder charger from a Corrado that i have and schrick 268 cams plus a ported head and a 100 shot of NOS  If i go boosted i will attain dial a jet kit for each carb to make it for a easier tune

Is there anything else someone wants to add to my basic parts list that i first spoke of? Or any for that matter? Thanks guys i cant wait!!!!:thumbup:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I foresee much heartache in trying to boost through bike carbs.

Any vacuum source is fine, as long as it is true engine vacuum. 

What year/model/engine is the car stock?


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## RVWISBD (Jan 30, 2003)

yeayeayea said:


> I foresee much heartache in trying to boost through bike carbs.
> 
> Any vacuum source is fine, as long as it is true engine vacuum.
> 
> What year/model/engine is the car stock?


Thanks for the reply as for the motor i have no clue its a 2L 9A block that was given to me and has been sitting so i decided to do something with it and saw the carb post and ding ding ding lights came on.:laugh: And i am putting it in a 96 GTI shell, It shouldn't be too hard to boost that carb setup with the dial a jets and wideband. It should be wicked and a ton of fun if i did do it lol!:thumbup: I will try after i get the base together and running.


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## RVWISBD (Jan 30, 2003)

Also with the Saab dizzy do i just set the timing as normal and hook the Vac advance line up and im good to go????.....


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> Here's where I'm at.
> My 89' GTI I swaped a 2.0 16v 9a into it.
> I ran it on the 1.8 PL's CIS-e system with some sucess but the fuel distributor was always an issue as was the injectors, I had a o2 guage hooked up and it would jump arround more than a rabbit at a dog show.
> I bought Mikuni 40's off a yamaha r1. Cut the lower intake manifold down to about an inch from where the molding injector cups was about an inch away from the end of the runner. Now the carbs were alligned narrower than the runners but with good 3" 5 ply sylicon 2" to 1 3/4" reducers and a little trimming I got a manifold that I have relative faith in. And was able to shut the hood with the cone air filter just tuching the hood when closed.
> ...


The CIS-e ignition system uses electronic/mechanical advance, not a vacuum advance, but does have advance built in. And the distributor to use on a 9A comes from a 16V Saab 900 Turbo from the late '80s/early '90s.

For tuning info, just search through here. I know it's a ton of info to sort through, but there's a lot of basic jetting/idle setting info in there. Maybe we need a separate jets/needles/idle bleeds/tuning post to make that info a little easier to find? My setup isn't running, yet, and it's also on an 8V, not a 16V.

For the choke cable on my setup I used a Dorman or a Holley brand 6' choke cable. It operates at much tighter angles than I had hoped, and reaches perfectly from the stock dash location. I may go the extra step and buy a roll of heat shrink to give it a nice black outer sheathing.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks for the response, I was starting to fear that this post was starting to dry up. Ya, I think isolating the specific details would be benificial. I have read what I think was pretty well all of this post but, passively, and there is just so much info when I'm only looking for a few specifics.
Actualy, I have gotten some conflicting info on the SAAB distributor. it's actualy the 8v dizzy that fits it turns out. Sounds like what u say is a standard universal 6' choke cable will be the ticket. Looks like that's a good spot to put it. Throttle cable is next. I do wonder if a main jet needle with a diffrent profile would be worth pursuing. Also maby a diffrent idle jet, Though I would prefer a relatively lean idle, I want a fast response to boot.
Ya, I know all this info and I'm still asking questions.
I like to share with like minded folk.
Also I'm anxous and a bit nervous. I might finally go for the first start over this weekend, trying to poke holes in my theories before the moment of truth.
Good to know that there is some timing advance on the stock set-up. I figured there must be. I'm leaving all the sensors hooked up. I know it will want to hear from the temp sensor. Haven't rigged the idle switch or the full throttle yet. The idle will stabilize the timing, and there was an advance with the full throttle switch. Do able but I'm hoping for a creative way that still looks clean.


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## RVWISBD (Jan 30, 2003)

vrally said:


> Thanks for the response, I was starting to fear that this post was starting to dry up. Ya, I think isolating the specific details would be benificial. I have read what I think was pretty well all of this post but, passively, and there is just so much info when I'm only looking for a few specifics.
> Actualy, I have gotten some conflicting info on the SAAB distributor. it's actualy the 8v dizzy that fits it turns out. Sounds like what u say is a standard universal 6' choke cable will be the ticket. Looks like that's a good spot to put it. Throttle cable is next. I do wonder if a main jet needle with a diffrent profile would be worth pursuing. Also maby a diffrent idle jet, Though I would prefer a relatively lean idle, I want a fast response to boot.
> Ya, I know all this info and I'm still asking questions.
> I like to share with like minded folk.
> ...


Do you have a pic of the 8v dizzy? I bought a full kit from a guy and want to know which do i have. Thanks.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

This model (# 31-95401) appears to fit both 8 and 16V cars. 










http://www.ebay.com/itm/A1-Cardone-...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

*New Question: Jetting the Carbs*

Hey Everyone. Its been a while since I have posted. Did a R1 swap about a year and half ago and I have to say it has been a blast so far. The motor is an ABA with a 280 Cam, adjustable gear, header and 2 1/4" exhaust. I changed my main jets out to 200 and that has been fine with this setup.
Heres my question: When getting on the throttle it starts out really strong and then there is a lag about 3500-3800rpm and then it really rips again. Could the lag in the power curve be due to not changing any of the other jets when I changed the main jet? Based on the info provided what would you guys do?

I will post pics later of the 2nd ABA/R1 setup that I just put together on a buddys caddy. This setup is FUN!
:thumbup:


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

YJSAABMAN said:


> This model (# 31-95401) appears to fit both 8 and 16V cars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You can also use a VW Vanagon distributor, which also have vacuum advance features and the latest thing that I have been working at is a "DIS4" solution, possibly a with vacuum advance feature and a direct replacement for the 16V distributor. I am looking at carbs myself for a new project. That or a set of ITBs, but as of right now, it is still in planning stages.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Easiest way to switch to bike carbs, buy my car! ::laugh:










:wave:


Also, I dont know if it's ever been pointed out in here, but if you use the stock knockbox ignition such as that found on the cis-e cars, you wont have a rev limiter. At least my car does not. I believe rev limiter on our cars is done with the ECU by cutting the fuel pump relay off.

Here is what 8k sounds like without that pesky rev limiter


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Easiest way to switch to bike carbs, buy my car! ::laugh:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't have a rev limiter either. Used stock icm with MSD setup. Some MSD ignition boxes have a rev limiter adjuster.


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

Got my intake flange today.. What length runners are you boys using?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Dr.Steels said:


> Got my intake flange today.. What length runners are you boys using?


 

Whatever would clear the hood. I would say mine are probably only 3-4" long tops. 

I can measure them when I get back home later tonight.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

This is what happens when you go to 8k using a spec clutch, don't buy spec clutches:thumbdown: 










And another


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> This is what happens when you go to 8k using a spec clutch, don't buy spec clutches:thumbdown:


 damn. mine survived 70+ laps of track and a few autox. also, much beating on the street and a few 4k dumps.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

funpig said:


> Hey Everyone. Its been a while since I have posted. Did a R1 swap about a year and half ago and I have to say it has been a blast so far. The motor is an ABA with a 280 Cam, adjustable gear, header and 2 1/4" exhaust. I changed my main jets out to 200 and that has been fine with this setup.
> Heres my question: When getting on the throttle it starts out really strong and then there is a lag about 3500-3800rpm and then it really rips again. Could the lag in the power curve be due to not changing any of the other jets when I changed the main jet? Based on the info provided what would you guys do?
> 
> I will post pics later of the 2nd ABA/R1 setup that I just put together on a buddys caddy. This setup is FUN!
> :thumbup:


 I had this issue also, that point in the rpm range is the transition from the pilots to the main jets. Turn your pilots out 1/4 turn at a time til it smooths out:thumbup:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> damn. mine survived 70+ laps of track and a few autox. also, much beating on the street and a few 4k dumps.


 I was told they had a bad batch of pressure plates that went out. 
Your lucky, this clutch only had about 1k miles on it.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I was told they had a bad batch of pressure plates that went out.
> Your lucky, this clutch only had about 1k miles on it.


 how do you know which batch is good or bad? i would like to pull put my receipt and see when i purchased it.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> how do you know which batch is good or bad? i would like to pull put my receipt and see when i purchased it.


 I'm not sure if there is a way to tell, I never did anything about mine as I purchased it a year before it was installed an lost the recept. If yours was bought recently you may be ok.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I'm not sure if there is a way to tell, I never did anything about mine as I purchased it a year before it was installed an lost the recept. If yours was bought recently you may be ok.


 i bought mine late of last year, around November/December, but i dont know how long it has been sitting at the shop who i bought it from.


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

yeayeayea said:


> Whatever would clear the hood. I would say mine are probably only 3-4" long tops.
> 
> I can measure them when I get back home later tonight.


 Would love that


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I thought it was common knowledge that SPEC clutches were garbage, no matter when you bought them. I have never heard anyone praise a spec clutch. I have heard good things about south bend clutches. I have seen way too many posts about spec clutches blowing up.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> I thought it was common knowledge that SPEC clutches were garbage, no matter when you bought them. I have never heard anyone praise a spec clutch. I have heard good things about south bend clutches. I have seen way too many posts about spec clutches blowing up.


 I have heard that also, but that was some time ago. They have been pretty good the last few years. Southbend is awesome. Had one on my mkv, no problems. My buddy's mkv killed southbend stage 5 in less than a year.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

ClutchNet is the way to go:thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> ClutchNet is the way to go:thumbup:


 never heard of them. clutch master should be good.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> I had this issue also, that point in the rpm range is the transition from the pilots to the main jets. Turn your pilots out 1/4 turn at a time til it smooths out:thumbup:


 This is great info! We really should compile a tuning info sticky, or something to keep it easily at hand. 

*@ Dr.Steels:* 

Mine are 2.5" and just clear in my MK1 with rather large air cleaners on an ABA.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

*@dr steeles* I measured mine last night. 3" runners, and I think my gasket flange Is 1/2". 
So total length should be around 3.5". 
From the valve stem to the end of the intake manifold was 6". 
These lengths were chosen for fitment, not performance unfortunately. 
I may cut the manifold down as far as I can to gain some more hood clearance 
I want to make a plenum with longer trumpets. 

I'm documenting the rejetting process but it is super easy.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

A small run with my bike carbs... in a highway in Mexico, state of Hidalgo. Too much traffic to really go any further into 4th or 5th gear.


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

So my flang matches the gasket 100% if i where to use a tube to go arround the ports it would have to be 50mm ID, yet i need a 46mm OD to mate the manifold to the carbs, how did you guys go about this?


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Well the carb setup is on pause. First start reveiled what appears to be a stuck exhaust valve. 
Question is, Can I use a Stock MLS head gasket from ABA engine? 
They are about $30 as opposed to a $100+ Cometic MLS gasket. 

Carbs seemed good though. I couldn't figure out how it was idling at 4000k rpm with the throttle plates shut at first. I soon realized one of several flaws to tieing all the vaccume ports together. If isolating them doesn't cure it then cyl #4 has an open exhaust valve. 
O'boy!


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Dr.Steels said:


> So my flang matches the gasket 100% if i where to use a tube to go arround the ports it would have to be 50mm ID, yet i need a 46mm OD to mate the manifold to the carbs, how did you guys go about this?


 I wouldn't worry too much about that, your going to need couplers to secure the carbs to the runners. Reduce the diameter with those :thumbup:


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

RVWISBD said:


> Do you have a pic of the 8v dizzy? I bought a full kit from a guy and want to know which do i have. Thanks.


 I found pics on ebay listings and made a point communicate with a few of them that they were accurate pics. I haven't bought one yet I'm gona ride out the stock ignition for now. The 8v saab dizzy has 3 symetrical mounting points as opposed to vws 16v dizzy with 2. That limits the ease of adjustment but otherwise they are similar cam driven dizzys.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Dr.Steels said:


> So my flang matches the gasket 100% if i where to use a tube to go arround the ports it would have to be 50mm ID, yet i need a 46mm OD to mate the manifold to the carbs, how did you guys go about this?


 TO match my ports I used 1.75" tubing, and ovaled it myself. It matched the port holes almost perfectly.


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

yeayeayea said:


> TO match my ports I used 1.75" tubing, and ovaled it myself. It matched the port holes almost perfectly.


 OD, or ID?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I'd have to measure my stuff, but I'm ABA, not 16V, so that may change things. I'll have to see if I can find the part number for the Vibrant 4-ply silicone couplers I used to mount my carbs to the manifold.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Dr.Steels said:


> OD, or ID?


ID I think. Pretty sure I measured the port size and the circumference of the port worked out to a 1.75 diameter circle.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*High Idle*

I'm idling way too high. I got the throttle plates shut as far as I could adjust them. I leaned it out and got it down to 2k ish, but that's still 2k rpms. Any advice.

Also. Anyone know where to find s pre-fab manifold in the USA. Anyone selling one of willing to build another one after gaining their expertice of building one for themselves. Yayaya that's a pretty one you built. I say several on these posts that pretty sharp. My cut down stock 16v manifold is functional but ... Sketchy.

Otherwise I'm running pretty good with little tuning.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Syncronization*

Hows everyone getting a dynamic syncrinization without vaccume ports on each clyinder?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> Hows everyone getting a dynamic syncrinization without vaccume ports on each clyinder?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

vrally said:


> Hows everyone getting a dynamic syncrinization without vaccume ports on each clyinder?


Some carbs have a port on each carb. Which carbs are you running?


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Exactly.
I don't feel good about tapping the hose though. 
I haven't noticed more than one of them on most of these beautiful custom manifolds.
I'm going with a permenately fixed guage for each clyinder soon as I fix a good place to mount them under the hood. Easy diagnostics.
Still second guessing my manifold. I have a spare that I might cut down for a second try. I need a grove for the hose clamp to ride in.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> Exactly.
> I don't feel good about tapping the hose though.
> I haven't noticed more than one of them on most of these beautiful custom manifolds.
> I'm going with a permenately fixed guage for each clyinder soon as I fix a good place to mount them under the hood. Easy diagnostics.
> Still second guessing my manifold. I have a spare that I might cut down for a second try. I need a grove for the hose clamp to ride in.


silicone tap works fine. i have 2 sets of couplers, so one is for tuning and one doesnt have a tap. if i have the money next year, i want to get a nice manifold build in europe. i believe it in this thread somewhere. it has taps for vac lines already build in.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*WideBand*

Any advice on an air/fuel ratio guage set-ups.
Do I need 2 4-wire sensors or can I do it on one.
I have a 3-wire on a cheap guage which is acting up now and need to upgeade at least the guage. Analoge not digital. 
On a budget wideband guage vs. cheap narrow band replacement. And what about the sensors.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Still Idling too high?*


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> Any advice on an air/fuel ratio guage set-ups.
> Do I need 2 4-wire sensors or can I do it on one.
> I have a 3-wire on a cheap guage which is acting up now and need to upgeade at least the guage. Analoge not digital.
> On a budget wideband guage vs. cheap narrow band replacement. And what about the sensors.


Innovate mtxl and be done with it.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm running r1 carbs.
I know inovative is a big brand but what sensor do I need. And do I need 2.
I wish There was an american machine shop already versed in these manifolds that would produce a few good quality ones for a fair price and less shipping. I know the hard part is getting set-up for making one, but if you make one everyone after that gets easyer and cheaper. I feel like there is a demand in the market for them if the price is right.

On my ebay search there was a premium on the wide band label, but is there a diffrence in the guages.
Sure I don't want a dragon logo in the middle of my vw afr guage but I'm not sure either how well that I'll warm up to a guage that reads "Stotch" as being a term for an 'ideal' air fuel ratio.
The listings that said wide band were more expensive. 
About how much $ would I be looking at for a good one, and what if I wanted to cut corners.
What are my options there?


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

vrally said:


> Well the carb setup is on pause. First start reveiled what appears to be a stuck exhaust valve.
> Question is, Can I use a Stock MLS head gasket from ABA engine?
> They are about $30 as opposed to a $100+ Cometic MLS gasket.
> 
> ...


It now runs too good to be an open valve to get air from.
Still can't get the idle down though.
Leaned it out still at 2k. The choke takes me to 3500 rpm when warm. Could a small vac leak do this or am I not adjusting them right?
And the ABA gasket may be a hair thicker but fits fine.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Like rsskii recommended. Innovate MTX-L 3844, NOT the 3845. The 3845 is for powersports applications and has shorter wires on the O2 sensor. 3844 is for automotive applications.

http://www.nolimitmotorsport.com/Me...een=PROD&Product_Code=INN-3844&Category_Code=

Everything you need right there to have a wideband accuracy in your car. I have one, and I love it.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I do appreciate the input, but I don't like digital guages on a system that has rapid fluctuations, they are harder to read what's realy going on at a glance. I want a needle.
Would a generic 4 wire o2 sensor give me the signal that I need is what I realy want to know.
Also the price is steep.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm thinking seriously about finding a local machine shop to build a manifold now. Hoses are slipping off.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> I do appreciate the input, but I don't like digital guages on a system that has rapid fluctuations, they are harder to read what's realy going on at a glance. I want a needle.
> Would a generic 4 wire o2 sensor give me the signal that I need is what I realy want to know.
> Also the price is steep.


you have to pay to play, if you cant pay, then you shouldnt be playing!
there is no delay to this digital gauge....


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

You shouldn't be having rapid fluctuations though. 

Here is a recent vid from my car. I have upped my jet size since then, but you can see it was holding pretty steady at 14. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBDLdOKsLzQ&feature=g-crec-u


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> You shouldn't be having rapid fluctuations though.
> 
> Here is a recent vid from my car. I have upped my jet size since then, but you can see it was holding pretty steady at 14.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBDLdOKsLzQ&feature=g-crec-u


Damn, mine is way way lower. What is the size of your jets?


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> Damn, mine is way way lower. What is the size of your jets?


Uhh, I drill them myself using a drill index. My AF is in the 13's now, but I think the head is warped because I am pretty sure the head gasket is leaking again. Sourcing a replacement head now.

From what I read, mid 12's to 13:1 is ideal for power on a Naturally Aspirated motor.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> Uhh, I drill them myself using a drill index. My AF is in the 13's now, but I think the head is warped because I am pretty sure the head gasket is leaking again. Sourcing a replacement head now.
> 
> From what I read, mid 12's to 13:1 is ideal for power on a Naturally Aspirated motor.


What size did you drill them out to? Like mine are drilled out to 200


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Nice vid!!
It sounded like you were pulling realy hard at high rpms.
I still feel like analoge is better for me. 
I'm going to try a 4 wire o2 sensor and see what that looks like on my existing guage(it has the wiring for one.)
My hoses are slipping off the manifold so I'm going to try jb-welding a lip on the edge to hold the clamps on tomarrow and replacing a few of the bolts with studs so I can design some sort of brace/support to pull the carbs tward the manifold for a little extra protection....Of try again.
Must be a vaccume leak keeping my idle up.
Has anyone found a smaller idle jet? I wan thinking a smaller idle jet and a little shim on the needles would give my the MPG while maintaining speed and still plenty of go when you want to go.
I got the 15 idle jet now. I haven't found a smaller one. I know that there is a 17.5. The 15 is still REALY SHARP on a light touch.
?????


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> I'm thinking seriously about finding a local machine shop to build a manifold now. Hoses are slipping off.


You aren't under boost, I find this disturbing. What material are your couplers made from? MAybe need a support bracket? 

I think if I were doing it over I'd get a thick piece (1-1/2"-2") and have a flange with coupler flanges at the proper angle machined. Then I'd just use 4 pieces of 4" 4-ply to make the runners. Hood clearance would be the toughest. Tapered filters help with that. Availability of materials and the amount of time into mine makes me not want to do another. And mine was for an ABA, anyways. No good if you're on a 16V.


----------



## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> You aren't under boost, I find this disturbing. What material are your couplers made from? MAybe need a support bracket?
> 
> I think if I were doing it over I'd get a thick piece (1-1/2"-2") and have a flange with coupler flanges at the proper angle machined. Then I'd just use 4 pieces of 4" 4-ply to make the runners. Hood clearance would be the toughest. Tapered filters help with that. Availability of materials and the amount of time into mine makes me not want to do another. And mine was for an ABA, anyways. No good if you're on a 16V.


Disturbed I was.
The runners don't line up with the carb ports perfectly, I had to split the difference of about 3/4" to 1" between the 4 ports. I smoother the runners out to help me slip the sleves and get a smoother fit and flow. I just built up a lip arround the runners edge with jb-weld to give the clams something to hold on to. I'm using 5-ply silicone sleves. Hood clearance ment I had to cut the runners down to the bare minimum and that has something to do with it. I also coated the silicone couplers with a copper gasket spray to help keep the fuel from eating it. I got some stuff to build a bracing system that might help as well. I want to be able to abuse the crap out of this thing without worrying about those hoses slipping off, so this was unacceptable. All the $ that I've put into little fittings, nuts and bolts and stuff added up. Would have been better to build from scratch and do it right, I thought I would save some $ by taking the long way arround but looking back I think it would have been worth it have a machine shop do it right from the start.
But I;m this far in it now and I want to make it work if I can. Because I started it.
I am still wondering if I could cut the upper manifold , bolt them on backwards and still shut the hood.. It would be close.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> Disturbed I was.
> The runners don't line up with the carb ports perfectly, I had to split the difference of about 3/4" to 1" between the 4 ports. I smoother the runners out to help me slip the sleves and get a smoother fit and flow. I just built up a lip arround the runners edge with jb-weld to give the clams something to hold on to. I'm using 5-ply silicone sleves. Hood clearance ment I had to cut the runners down to the bare minimum and that has something to do with it. I also coated the silicone couplers with a copper gasket spray to help keep the fuel from eating it. I got some stuff to build a bracing system that might help as well. I want to be able to abuse the crap out of this thing without worrying about those hoses slipping off, so this was unacceptable. All the $ that I've put into little fittings, nuts and bolts and stuff added up. Would have been better to build from scratch and do it right, I thought I would save some $ by taking the long way arround but looking back I think it would have been worth it have a machine shop do it right from the start.
> But I;m this far in it now and I want to make it work if I can. Because I started it.
> I am still wondering if I could cut the upper manifold , bolt them on backwards and still shut the hood.. It would be close.


Thinking the copper spray might be part of your problem. Silicone shouldn't be effected the way older rubber is by the ethanol in the fuel. Pretty much anything made in the last 20 years for any type of automotive application has been engineered to withstand ethanol exposure.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I have heard several times from several people that fuel will desolve the silicon leaving me pron to vaccum leaks, and since they also support the carbs I was even more concerned... That said I have notices that even the high dollar builds are using silicone rather than fuel filler neck hose which I couldn't use because I needed a reducer to fit. I've been mis-lead on enough times to know that I could trust your word as much as any others. Long run I'll do the best I can and as always learn the hard way. I do feel more confident now that you've said it though. Also the copper spray doesn't bond to the silicon hoses so that didn't work out anyway. The stuff does take a while to burn off but it's o2 sensor safe and I feel better knowing I used it when I use it right. I have a copper colored manifold now, It acutualy works well an a durable paint once it cures but you need to bring it to temperature for it to realy fully cure at a practical rate.
I have tried a few things and I feel alot better about my setup now waiting for a manifold gasket to try again, I'll try to post some pics of it once I do.
It came to me in the shower the other night. Of all the times then was when it hit me. I never got a proper diagram of the carbs, so I've been kind of stumbling through realy understanding everything there is to know about these carbs. Idle air bleed screw, on the filter side (or at least I guess that's what it's called, never got a clear answer.) Well I got a 120 in it now. It looks like a main jet but smaller. If I don't get it to want to idle down to a reasonable level through any other means, with the timing advanced to where I want it and all that, then I'll trying swapping the idle air bleed screw out for a smaller one like a 100 or something. I beleave that should be effective since the car pulls so much more vaccum at idle than the bike motor did.
Any one else had to mess with the idle air bleed screw on theirs?


----------



## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Looking Back*

I've been rereading this thread and still don't feel like I'm learning anything new.
I'm feeling alot better about my manifold though. I'll proably have to take them back off again though, to re tune the idle screw. 3 turns out still seem a bit lean. It is winter but cold starts I idle at 250 rpm for the first minute or so.
I'm still having trouble keeping the idle down. I moved the timing back and this and that to close the throttle plates as much as I could and I can get the idle down but if I just nudge the throttle breifly it spins up to 3k and doesn't fall fast at all.
That is my only issue now. After I crack the throttle I can't get the revs down fast enough. It's making shifting a bit....off. I think I could use some lighter gear oil if I plan to be shifting so quickly without getting the gear box good and hot first. Still doesn't cure the underlying issue.
I'm starting to take a closer look at my timing. I wasn't unhappy with the drive after I disconnected the vaccum to the knock box,... still not reving down fast enough to have a smooth driving experience.
I'd settle for bad advice at this point.


----------



## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Any other tuning threads that I should know about.
I haven't found much


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## mAutopsy (Feb 20, 2012)

Finally got finished reading through this thread. (has taken about two weeks). I have recently purchased some Keihin's off a old (81) Honda CB650C. They are 32 mm on the engine side, which may be a little small for running them straight into the head, but i plan on having a plenum after them, so that all carbs are feeding all cylinders. Will have to fab up a manifold. (not a big deal as i work in a machine shop and I can also weld aluminun pretty darn good.) 
This is going to be a long project, I will try to keep everyone updated.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

mAutopsy said:


> Finally got finished reading through this thread. (has taken about two weeks). I have recently purchased some Keihin's off a old (81) Honda CB650C. They are 32 mm on the engine side, which may be a little small for running them straight into the head, but i plan on having a plenum after them, so that all carbs are feeding all cylinders. Will have to fab up a manifold. (not a big deal as i work in a machine shop and I can also weld aluminun pretty darn good.)
> This is going to be a long project, I will try to keep everyone updated.


Not to be a downer, but those sound too small for an automotive application, and the idea of a plenum between the carbs and the head eliminates the benefits of having ITB's, being short runner lengths and no disturbances from neighboring cylinders.


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

I just had my intake made for my R1 setup. Instead of going the traditional route of using hoses to secure the carbs to the intake my fabricator wanted to weld sleeves and use o-rings on the carbs to seal. They are bolted to the intake through the choke slide screws.I'm pretty happy with the results. It looks clean too.


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

here are a few more pics.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

captreils said:


> here are a few more pics.


 Looks good


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Very nice indeed, seems to me like you CAN still operate the chokes?


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

That's awesome!


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

pnavarro said:


> Very nice indeed, seems to me like you CAN still operate the chokes?


 yes the chokes are fully functional


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Captrelis that is one of the best manifolds I have ever seen!


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

yeayeayea said:


> Captrelis that is one of the best manifolds I have ever seen!


 Thanks. I can't take all the credit for this intake. My fabricator came up with the idea. I have to admit he really impressed me. If anyone else in my area wants one like this let me know. I could pass on his name and number. I'm hoping to have my car up and running by spring. It's been sitting for 10 years so everything needs a good going over. But it is 90% rust free.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

Captrelis... the intake you have looks tits! I wonder what the cost would be to fab something like this up? 

Anyone play around with idle jets and intermediate jets at all? I know there is mention of running the 15 idle jets for snap throttle but is there any other input out there? 

Currently on my 3rd ABA/R1 (in the 3 cars in the pics) conversion now but would like to push things a little beyond just a change of mainjets, cam and header. Indeed this is an easy setup and provides some fun:thumbup: 
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks everyone! 
MikeB


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

funpig said:


> Captrelis... the intake you have looks tits! I wonder what the cost would be to fab something like this up?
> 
> Thanks funpig. The intake was a little pricey. It cost $500. I gave him an intake gasket,the carbs,and a few dimensions and of course the money. And that's what he came up with.


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## Erthan (Sep 9, 2011)

I just contacted Weir Tech and I'm going to have them make my flange. Just letting yall know so if you want a nice cheap flange give em a ring.:beer:


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## pistol-mcgee (Sep 20, 2011)

Erthan said:


> I just contacted Weir Tech and I'm going to have them make my flange. Just letting yall know so if you want a nice cheap flange give em a ring.:beer:


How much is cheap? is it aluminum or steel?


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## Erthan (Sep 9, 2011)

pistol-mcgee said:


> How much is cheap? is it aluminum or steel?


~$25 for 3/8" steel

~$60 to $70 for 3/8" aluminum


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## 8VW (Jan 20, 2011)

hey everyone, i have a doubt with my current ITB setup and wanted to know how to make my Tach work. (maybe i missed it while reading the thread).

Heres my setup:

Megasquirt
ITB
MSD 6A Ignition with the coil as well

some people told me that i dont need the MSD Tach Adapter and now i'm a bit confused... its a 2.0 16v 1989 GLI

if someone could give me some advice i would appreciate it. I want the cluster to be at 100% and the only thing not working is the tachometer

thank you :beer:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

8VW said:


> hey everyone, i have a doubt with my current ITB setup and wanted to know how to make my Tach work. (maybe i missed it while reading the thread).
> 
> Heres my setup:
> 
> ...


 you do need an msd tach adapter. check on their site for which one you need (8910 or 8920). if you need the 8910, i have one that almost brand new


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## 8VW (Jan 20, 2011)

rysskii3 said:


> you do need an msd tach adapter. check on their site for which one you need (8910 or 8920). if you need the 8910, i have one that almost brand new


i will let you know. thanks!


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## 8VW (Jan 20, 2011)

how do i know which one i need? (tach adapter) and how does it mount? anyone has the wiring diagram instructions?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

8VW said:


> how do i know which one i need? (tach adapter) and how does it mount? anyone has the wiring diagram instructions?


check the msd website for wiring diagrams. its simple, white wire from tach adapter to 6a and to tach in the car (green wire on my 90 golf), red to power.


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## 8VW (Jan 20, 2011)

rysskii3 said:


> check the msd website for wiring diagrams. its simple, white wire from tach adapter to 6a and to tach in the car (green wire on my 90 golf), red to power.


thats the thing. mine is a 89 GLI and the cluster uses 2 plugs :/ i downloaded their diagram but still, dont know which tach adapter i should use so i can buy it.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

8VW said:


> thats the thing. mine is a 89 GLI and the cluster uses 2 plugs :/ i downloaded their diagram but still, dont know which tach adapter i should use so i can buy it.


Trial and error


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Pretty!


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

That's one fine collection funpig!!


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*2.0 16v 9a*

I'm fixing to remove the carbs in a week or 2 to do some cleaning and a final tune. Or at least re tune them. 3 turns out is still too lean for me. It's great when it warms up but it isn't worth trying it cold. Is 4 turns too much? I have the 15 pilot jets and it responds perfectly off idle. At least when its warm. I'm planning to do 2.0 main jets, I have them on order. Its's a stock 9a engine with a cat-less pl exhaust. As noisy as I want to go with the intake as it is with the r1 carbs. I've the 180 mains in it now with no real complaints except that I take wot seriously and want what I can get out of it without questioning it. I'm on the pilot mainly at highway speeds so no mpg issues to speak of. Realy I want to verify the I'm not the only one needing at least 4 turns on the idle a/f screws to get decent running conditions off throttle and cold. ??? And are the big cam guys the only ones with 2.0 mains.
Not to leave anything out the idle is still a bit high, doesn't want to idle down very quickly after I lift off the throttle after I dig into it for a bit.
Am I alone?


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*funpig*

Did I see funpigs' rabbit in eurotuner a while back?


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

useless update:

My VW Pointer (Gol) and the R1 carbs are still running quite well, not the Mitsubishi fuel pump, which died a today after trying to figure out why it wasn't working. So I'll be searching for one. Too bad I'm not in the US, getting one would be easier...


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> useless update:
> 
> My VW Pointer (Gol) and the R1 carbs are still running quite well, not the Mitsubishi fuel pump, which died a today after trying to figure out why it wasn't working. So I'll be searching for one. Too bad I'm not in the US, getting one would be easier...


Check out Carter p4070 fuel pump.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

vrally said:


> Did I see funpigs' rabbit in eurotuner a while back?


Hey VWRally...
I don't think my pig was in Eurotuner...at least if it was I have no idea. I am running 2.0 main jets in my car with a 272 cam and header and have the other 2 cars running with 2.0 jets. One has a mild cam and exhaust and the caddy only has a header. They all seem to be working great. Start ups when cold are a little tough but if you prime the pump for a moment, pull out the choke and give the throttle a pump or two it starts right up.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks Funpig.
I haven't forked up the $ for a wideband AFR set up yet but I;ve been using a narrow band on the stock o2 sensor for refrence. I feel like I'll be ok with 2.0 mains, but you never know until you do. Exhaust is moving fast enough I think. The stock pl exhaust was pretty agressive for being stock and I put a civic resonator over the old cat. 
The 15 pilot jet feels perfect on mine. More mods and I might want to see what the 17.5 feels like.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> Check out Carter p4070 fuel pump.


Thanks for the tip, I looked for one down here in Mexico City, but no luck. On the other hand, I got my hands on an R6 fuel pump!


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Thanks for the tip, I looked for one down here in Mexico City, but no luck. On the other hand, I got my hands on an R6 fuel pump!


look online, they are not very expensive


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> look online, they are not very expensive


I did! That's how I landed the R6 fuel pump! Summit racing stocks the Carter pump, it would've been a bit pricier because of the fuel pressure regulator, plus the shipping & handling... If this new one fails once again, I'll invest in a Carter. THing is... I'm just too lazy to plumb a return line to the tank...:laugh:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> I did! That's how I landed the R6 fuel pump! Summit racing stocks the Carter pump, it would've been a bit pricier because of the fuel pressure regulator, plus the shipping & handling... If this new one fails once again, I'll invest in a Carter. THing is... I'm just too lazy to plumb a return line to the tank...:laugh:


carter pump doesnt require a return line because its a low pressure pump. if you ran the fuel line straight from the intank pump to carbs, then you would need a return line. when i got the carter pump, it was set to run at about 3psi out of the box,i didnt mess with FPR at all.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> carter pump doesnt require a return line because its a low pressure pump. if you ran the fuel line straight from the intank pump to carbs, then you would need a return line. when i got the carter pump, it was set to run at about 3psi out of the box,i didnt mess with FPR at all.


I'll have to look into that, then... thanks for the info!


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Please help! 

I now have an R6 fuel pump, which I understand is the exact same as the R1. So here's the question: 

Which wire is which? There are two black wires, one of them has a blue stripe. I tend to believe that would be 12v and the other would be ground... can anyone confirm this?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Please help!
> 
> I now have an R6 fuel pump, which I understand is the exact same as the R1. So here's the question:
> 
> Which wire is which? There are two black wires, one of them has a blue stripe. I tend to believe that would be 12v and the other would be ground... can anyone confirm this?


 For this you should be asking people on the r6 forum.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Heh, thanks, sometimes the most logical thing is overlooked, will do.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Heh, thanks, sometimes the most logical thing is overlooked, will do.


 or you can ditch the r6 pump and get the carter one, which has been proven to work with bike and regular carbs


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Right! For reference... 

The fuel pump from a Yamaha R6 (similar to an R1, except for the bent tubes) 
Wires: Black - ground / Black with blue stripe - 12v. 

Tubes: Thick one - inlet / Thin one - Output. 

Fueling my R1 carbs on the cheap! :laugh:


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## johnbmxinvasion (Jan 26, 2008)

on my 1.8 16v i plan on running r1 carbs and msd 6AL box. 
few questions. what would be the best jets on my car with it running a 268 cam set? 

and i havent saw a good response on why not to use a stock pump, i know its a highhh psi but wouldnt a FPR handle it?? 

and is anyone else running msd ignition??


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

johnbmxinvasion said:


> on my 1.8 16v i plan on running r1 carbs and msd 6AL box.
> few questions. what would be the best jets on my car with it running a 268 cam set?
> 
> and i havent saw a good response on why not to use a stock pump, i know its a highhh psi but wouldnt a FPR handle it??
> ...


 Check my build thread for MSD stuff. But this thread also hadgood MSD info. Speaking of jets, that depends on many things. Get an AFR gauge and she how the car runs.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

was still a good day...cranked right up. its actually running better...:laugh:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Nice!!


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

pnavarro said:


> Nice!!


 it actually is now...acceleration is crazy. funpig and i are gonna install an 80% kit to help get the power to the ground. then some coilovers. cant wait for those to go on...:beer:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> it actually is now...acceleration is crazy. funpig and i are gonna install an 80% kit to help get the power to the ground. then some coilovers. cant wait for those to go on...:beer:


 The 80% transmission kit helps a bit.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> The 80% transmission kit helps a bit.


 awesome! although im not too sure how long this 4spd diesel tranny is gonna hold. ive been dailying it for a couple of weeks. its a completely different beast than the mk2vrjetta.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

rysskii3, any other tips thatll help?... setup is of course ABA R1, 200jets, 268cam, front and rear sway bars, cut springs for now...


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## pistol-mcgee (Sep 20, 2011)

anyone know of where to find a rebuild kit for r1 carbs? i bought a used set that need a serious rebuild and id rather not go searching for every piece one by one.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> rysskii3, any other tips thatll help?... setup is of course ABA R1, 200jets, 268cam, front and rear sway bars, cut springs for now...


 it all depends what you want to do with the car. daily, track?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

pistol-mcgee said:


> anyone know of where to find a rebuild kit for r1 carbs? i bought a used set that need a serious rebuild and id rather not go searching for every piece one by one.


 just look online, there are plenty of motorcycle shops that sell rebuilt kits


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

kind of both street and track. scca, then balling around town with the other r1ABA's


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> kind of both street and track. scca, then balling around town with the other r1ABA's


 look at my build thread. my main focus track, but with street drivability in mind.


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

pistol-mcgee said:


> anyone know of where to find a rebuild kit for r1 carbs? i bought a used set that need a serious rebuild and id rather not go searching for every piece one by one.


all the ones i saw were atleast $30 per carb, so $120 to do all 4, its a kit like this usually, I just tore mine down and cleaned everything, only ended up buying the bowl o rings which was like $30 or so for all 4 off bikebandit.com


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## Dr.Steels (Mar 20, 2012)

I have a set of CVK40's with a steel 16V intake flange if any one is interested... My carb project died :c


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

craigerk said:


> all the ones i saw were atleast $30 per carb, so $120 to do all 4, its a kit like this usually, I just tore mine down and cleaned everything, only ended up buying the bowl o rings which was like $30 or so for all 4 off bikebandit.com


I'll throw another $120 at my set, I paid a few $$ less than that for the set delivered, and I'm still at around 1/4 of the price of a set of Webers.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> The 80% transmission kit helps a bit.


This is good to hear. I picked one up for a deal ($60 shipped, never used) to try out in my daily MK3.


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## beast_iosif (Mar 27, 2013)

Does anyone know what MPG (fuel consumption) you get with bike carbs on a 16v engine?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

beast_iosif said:


> Does anyone know what MPG (fuel consumption) you get with bike carbs on a 16v engine?


Not very good


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## beast_iosif (Mar 27, 2013)

rysskii3 said:


> Not very good


what do you meen by NOT VERY GOOD 
can you give me a numbre


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

I thought way earlier in the thread someone said they were getting like 25 or so mpg. I think it was the op that said it.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

beast_iosif said:


> what do you meen by NOT VERY GOOD
> can you give me a numbre


10-15mpg


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

craigerk said:


> I thought way earlier in the thread someone said they were getting like 25 or so mpg. I think it was the op that said it.


I get 15 or so in the city and lower to mid 20's on the high way but I have a big 5th gear as well.


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## mikes86lego (Apr 30, 2012)

anyone running carbs like this with no knock box? I'm planning on doing that with and aba and vac advance dizzy. 

correct me if i'm wrong but..
-follow wiring diagram minus the stuff for knockbox
-swap gear from aba dizzy to 1.8 dizzy

yes?

also, I am aware to be careful setting timing without a knockbox. Finding a knock box assembly(box and harness) around here is kinda hard.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

mikes86lego said:


> anyone running carbs like this with no knock box? I'm planning on doing that with and aba and vac advance dizzy.
> 
> correct me if i'm wrong but..
> -follow wiring diagram minus the stuff for knockbox
> ...


What is this going in?

I'm not running a knock box but i have a 16v instead. As far as the distributor gear you may be able to do that or find a 1.8 im. Shaft. I don't 100% know if you can do that just another possibility. As for wiring for the distributor it should be plug and play for you... again different scenario for me. As for timing, get a timing light. 

Sorry for not so sure answers but I don't think much people are running a vac. Advance distributor.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

All MSD with OEM distribution and no knock box on my 16v


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## mikes86lego (Apr 30, 2012)

Goin in my mk2 Golf. Putting the O2A on it and calling it a day. 

Problem is, in an attempt to fund this swap, I sold the entire engine harness and engine to a customer. I got a harness from a buddy of mine, and I'm just working on wiring it up. I'm gonna run the 1.8 vac advance with the 2.0 gear and adapter.

After that, I think i got it covered. Craigerk sent me some images to base it off of


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Really all the wiring you need is for the ICM and the three wires from it to the distributor. Oh I spose the alternator wiring too... but seriously the simplicity in wiring is great if you are very competent with it. Good luck!


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

So got my air/fuel gauge in ad it running. But I'm WICKED lean. Would it be best to drill the jets out first or better to shim the needle? Never had to adjust any carbs other then the idle haha.


----------



## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

Oh and probably should let you guys know I have an aba in my mk2 with r1 carbs. 
Pic before I cleaned it up a bit:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

craigerk said:


> So got my air/fuel gauge in ad it running. But I'm WICKED lean. Would it be best to drill the jets out first or better to shim the needle? Never had to adjust any carbs other then the idle haha.


Drill out the jets.


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## Jetta_Coupe4Life_81 (Feb 3, 2008)

im working on a 16v in my cabby putting r1 carbs on also. im at a few snag ups, what do you do with the front coolant neck coming out of the head? it looks like it will clear but if not what do you normally do? also i think the stock radiator is a little big looks like everything is crammed in there way to tight. i was thinking about a two core civic del sol radiator from flee bay. any suggestions on what to do?


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Jetta_Coupe4Life_81 said:


> im working on a 16v in my cabby putting r1 carbs on also. im at a few snag ups, what do you do with the front coolant neck coming out of the head? it looks like it will clear but if not what do you normally do? also i think the stock radiator is a little big looks like everything is crammed in there way to tight. i was thinking about a two core civic del sol radiator from flee bay. any suggestions on what to do?


Can't comment on the 16V coolant neck clearance (I have an ABA), but for the radiator I plan on going with a custom built aluminum unit for mine. I haven't gone any further than figuring out dimensions, because until I have a few hundred $$ to spend, I don't want to know the price! :laugh:


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

Jetta_Coupe4Life_81 said:


> im working on a 16v in my cabby putting r1 carbs on also. im at a few snag ups, what do you do with the front coolant neck coming out of the head? it looks like it will clear but if not what do you normally do? also i think the stock radiator is a little big looks like everything is crammed in there way to tight. i was thinking about a two core civic del sol radiator from flee bay. any suggestions on what to do?


I think there is someone on this thread that did just what you propose, a Honda radiator. I know I saw it somewhere...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I have a Honda rad from the junkyard sitting on the shelf because I just don't like how it fits. My buddy had an aluminum Honda rad in his Scirocco and it was the same issue. Too tall to sit on the lower rad support and clear the hood and looks awkward when placed to clear the hood, IMO.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

i have no problem with passat dual fans


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Jetta_Coupe4Life_81 said:


> im working on a 16v in my cabby putting r1 carbs on also. im at a few snag ups, what do you do with the front coolant neck coming out of the head? it looks like it will clear but if not what do you normally do? also i think the stock radiator is a little big looks like everything is crammed in there way to tight. i was thinking about a two core civic del sol radiator from flee bay. any suggestions on what to do?


I ordered a abf water neck from black forest industries to get the clearance for my carb setup.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

My valve guides seals are becoming a real issue, any advice on where to find parts for a rebuild. Didn't like my ebay search results, did find a reman-head for $300 of which I am skeptical, but I have a spare pl head sitting arround waiting to be returned to service.


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> My valve guides seals are becoming a real issue, any advice on where to find parts for a rebuild. Didn't like my ebay search results, did find a reman-head for $300 of which I am skeptical, but I have a spare pl head sitting arround waiting to be returned to service.


http://www.intengineering.com/
tt tuning.
you will also need a valve compressor tool for european engines ($150). i replaced a few seals without removing the head.
The question you should be asking now is why your seals went bad? Did the valve guides get warped? If so, then you will have to pull the head and replace the valve guides.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> My valve guides seals are becoming a real issue, any advice on where to find parts for a rebuild. Didn't like my ebay search results, did find a reman-head for $300 of which I am skeptical, but I have a spare pl head sitting arround waiting to be returned to service.


Like rysskii3 said, if your guides are worn, you really need to pull the head and take it to the machine shop for a proper freshening.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

those will help with the NA carbed motors

http://gruvenparts.com/website/cart/cart.php?target=product&product_id=394&category_id=60


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks. 
The valve guides are what worry me. 
I found the tool so that I could do the seals without removing the head $65 and that would proably do alot.
Of course reworking the head would be ideal, but $ is an issue.
My 180k mile engine is more worn than the 330k mile engine that it replaced.


----------



## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

Where do you guys have your air/fuel adjustment screw at? I drilled out my jets but it didn't change my air/fuel number and I don't want to go too far, the set I borrowed isn't labeled so I had to put the bits in order, find the current size and do the next one up. I saw someone said something about 3 turns and 4 turns. Just wondering where you guys are at.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

craigerk said:


> Where do you guys have your air/fuel adjustment screw at? I drilled out my jets but it didn't change my air/fuel number and I don't want to go too far, the set I borrowed isn't labeled so I had to put the bits in order, find the current size and do the next one up. I saw someone said something about 3 turns and 4 turns. Just wondering where you guys are at.


The screws are factory sealed with brass inserts that you'll have to drill out if your running r1's. It's located on the bottom next to the bowl on the engine side. I'd say 3 to 3 1/2 turns out. mine are now at 3 3/4 with 2.0mm mains and a tad rich at Idle. With the 15 pilot jets of course.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Valve seals*

I ordered the tool to do the valve guides in car.
I'm going to try to save some pennys for a remanufactured head or to rebuild the PL from the old engine. The "remanufactured one that I found on ebay had new seals but they didn't do the guides themselves. Maby why it's so cheap. At $7 to $10 a peice and 16 valves they would add a heavy price tag even if I were to do the work myself.
I'm going to try just the seals and inspect as best that I can the condition of the guides in the process.


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> I ordered the tool to do the valve guides in car.
> I'm going to try to save some pennys for a remanufactured head or to rebuild the PL from the old engine. The "remanufactured one that I found on ebay had new seals but they didn't do the guides themselves. Maby why it's so cheap. At $7 to $10 a peice and 16 valves they would add a heavy price tag even if I were to do the work myself.
> I'm going to try just the seals and inspect as best that I can the condition of the guides in the process.


the valve guides can only be done with the head taken off because they have to be pressed in. now valve guide seals can be replaced without taken the head off, but it can be dangerous if the valve falls in. 
i replaced seals on cyl 2 a little while ago. use the overhead valve compressor tool (http://techtonicstuning.com/main/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=634&products_id=709)


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vrally said:


> The screws are factory sealed with brass inserts that you'll have to drill out if your running r1's. It's located on the bottom next to the bowl on the engine side. I'd say 3 to 3 1/2 turns out. mine are now at 3 3/4 with 2.0mm mains and a tad rich at Idle. With the 15 pilot jets of course.


ok, sounds good, new where it was just wasn't sure where people had it, if you have a a/f gauge, what number are you at at idle? Maybe wot number too? (question directed to anyone else of course)


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

craigerk said:


> ok, sounds good, new where it was just wasn't sure where people had it, if you have a a/f gauge, what number are you at at idle? Maybe wot number too? (question directed to anyone else of course)


at wot (7-7500) int 4th gear you should be at mid 12s. at idle is different, but you should be 13.5-14.5.
having the car a little rich is better than lean. also, tune the carbs when its cooler outside. 
my car for example, i hit low 10s at lower rmps at wot, but come up to mid 12s at the red line. in very cold ( 50s) the car run little lean, but in very warm (80-90s) it runs richer.


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

Ok, I'm obviously doing something wrong. I have r1 carbs on an aba motor with tci-h wiring and a vac advance dizzy off 1.8. 

It starts no problem but at idle is always at 21.9 on my wideband. I've drilled the jets out to a pretty good size(like I said before they aren't labeled so I've just been going up one each time) and I even tried going out 4 turns on the air/fuel adjustment screw. When I give it gas it richens up and goes to like 12-14 ish. So i believe it's just my idle that I need to fix but I don't know how. I'm guessing I've missed something in this thread but not seeing it

Any ideas?

Oh, and I capped off every tube but the black plastic t's between the carbs. Is this correct? The pic on page2 doesn't say what to do with the top one.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

The air fuel adjustment screw is what adjusts your mixture at idle and up to about 1/4 throttle. Secondary jets are like 1/4 to 1/2-2/3 throttle and past that is your main jets.


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> The air fuel adjustment screw is what adjusts your mixture at idle and up to about 1/4 throttle. Secondary jets are like 1/4 to 1/2-2/3 throttle and past that is your main jets.


Just before I left for work I was thinking maybe I have a leak somewhere so started spraying starter fluid around my intake and found my intake gasket leaking like crazy. Of course no one in town stocks it so a new one will be in tomorrow. Hoping that's the issue. Well see. Other then that it starts up no problem but did have a sputter so hoping that's also from the gasket.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

What's your idle at? Also start from the middle and go out when you tighten the manifold down.


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> What's your idle at? Also start from the middle and go out when you tighten the manifold down.


I haven't really been able to lock down an idle, guessing the leak might be the culprit of that, I can get it to idle around 800 or even lower sometimes, but then I start it again and it's wicked low, or sometimes higher.

I was trying to be cheap and reuse the gasket that was on it. I've learned that lesson numerous times but still try for some reason.... :-/

And I'll try tightening them that way tomorrow with the new gasket. Anything to try to help it.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Same thing that happened to me when I got my car going. I ended up using a permatex or something of that sort to get a leak free manifold. :/ But it Idles where it needs to except when letting off the throttle slowly then it Idles about 300rpm higher. Weak return spring I think:/

Edit: permatex not permitted


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

after i was done installing the carbs and the manifold, i finished the process with high temp rtv gasket maker. so far it has been doing well.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I changed my mind I'm going to buy the rebuild head.
It's dirt cheap at about $300 shipped, which is what worries me but in the long run if its good, and his feedback seems ok, than I think that it will save me time and money in the long run. So I'll be pulling the head and hopefully it will get here by next weekend.
I already have head studs, so I'll just need the head gasket which I think I'll get a MLS one off a newer 2.0 8v. 
I've always reused the exhaust gasket plates, but I'm gonna price new ones.
I'm gonna need to sell off some of my extra parts to expense all this.


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> Same thing that happened to me when I got my car going. I ended up using a permatex or something of that sort to get a leak free manifold. :/ But it Idles where it needs to except when letting off the throttle slowly then it Idles about 300rpm higher. Weak return spring I think:/
> 
> Edit: permatex not permitted


Put the new gasket on today, what a difference! Lol it actually idles wherever I want now! Still has minor leaks so gonna do the same and add some gasket sealer to it too this week. Drive it to work fine. Only problem I have is I'm still lean at idle. It's around 16 or so on the wide band. Cruising down the road I'm in the 14's. wot it goes down to low 13s I believe. As she I let off the gas it seems to slowly rev down. Not sure on that yet. Pic from the first drive today in almost two months!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Holy crap you're low haha. Glad to hear that you got it running. If the gasket sealer doesn't solve you're lean issue, how many turns out are you on your idle screws?


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

86Franklin said:


> Holy crap you're low haha. Glad to hear that you got it running. If the gasket sealer doesn't solve you're lean issue, how many turns out are you on your idle screws?


I'm out to 4, so I'm thinking gasket maker, then next size up on jets. Most people I saw and like the earlier post are like 3-3.75 I think.


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## mikes86lego (Apr 30, 2012)

does anyone happen to have a flange they'd sell me? Nobody around here in NOVA wants to mess with making one for me. Don't need anything uber pretty, but hoping to get something functional

cbr900 carbs on a 2.0 in a mk2 golf.


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

mikes86lego said:


> does anyone happen to have a flange they'd sell me? Nobody around here in NOVA wants to mess with making one for me. Don't need anything uber pretty, but hoping to get something functional
> 
> cbr900 carbs on a 2.0 in a mk2 golf.


This is where I got mine from:

http://www.weir-tech.com/volkswagen/

If you get the aba flange from him just tell him you need the spots cut out for the spark plug wires. He did it for me. Not sure why he has it solid.


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## mikes86lego (Apr 30, 2012)

wonder why the 8v crossflow one has that weird dip? any ideas? also, emailed you bout it.

danke!


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

mikes86lego said:


> wonder why the 8v crossflow one has that weird dip? any ideas? also, emailed you bout it.
> 
> danke!


I know I answered in the email but that's not for an aba. I don't know what that ones is, you want the head flange:

http://www.weir-tech.com/volkswagen/volkswagen-8v-intake-head-flange-3/8-mild-steel/

And I emailed him asking why it is solid where spark plugs go and he wouldn't answer the question but said he would cut it that way. Came out like this:


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*MLS ABA head gasket on a 9A*

I ordered a victor reinz MLS head gasket OEM for a ABA engine, for my 9A. 
It lines up ok should work fine but the water channels are just round rather than conforming to the tryangle-ish shape on the block and head. Won't flow as well but looks useable.
Question is, haw many of these layers do I realy need? Looks to me like alot of them are just for filler. Am I wrong?


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I installed the rebuilt head. 
The "euro spec" (re-ground exhaust cam) intake cam was junk. The profile didn't look right from the start but once I installed it it slammed against the lifters clattering like a dry diesel fuel pump, only louder. So I installed a stock intake cam and it purrs again. 
I checked my oil pressure to make sure the lifters were getting enough juice after I heard the ruckous, with a mechanical guage, (I was pretty sure my electronic guage didn't work becaust it was always pegged at 100psi) my oil pressure was way over spec 150 to 200 psi easy 100 at idle. I guess the relief valve on the oil pump failed, which explains alot. 
It will cut out and die seamingly out of nowhere and the starter motor can hardly even crank it until it sits for a while because the oil pump gets compression stuck. 
Too much oil pressure, I didn't see it coming. 
Next week new oil pump.... And windage baffle.....maby more..


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

What oil are you running? Are these pressures cold or warmed up?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

:beer:


craigerk said:


> Put the new gasket on today, what a difference! Lol it actually idles wherever I want now! Still has minor leaks so gonna do the same and add some gasket sealer to it too this week. Drive it to work fine. Only problem I have is I'm still lean at idle. It's around 16 or so on the wide band. Cruising down the road I'm in the 14's. wot it goes down to low 13s I believe. As she I let off the gas it seems to slowly rev down. Not sure on that yet. Pic from the first drive today in almost two months!


 thats awesome...nice job...


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## johnbmxinvasion (Jan 26, 2008)

Anyone wanna buy these??? 00 r1 carbs?? $220 shipped













Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

there is a for sale section in the carb area. and 220 seems pretty high for a set of carbs


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

max and tiny said:


> there is a for sale section in the carb area. and 220 seems pretty high for a set of carbs


 :thumbup: 
they go anywhere from 100-200


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

mikes86lego said:


> wonder why the 8v crossflow one has that weird dip? any ideas? also, emailed you bout it.
> 
> danke!


 That flange is improperly labeled, that is a counterflow (1.8L) 8V flange, not crossflow (ABA 2.0L) flange.


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## mikes86lego (Apr 30, 2012)

the clarity on said subject is appreciated. thanks Saabman!


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## 1975bmw2002 (Mar 26, 2006)

this thread has alot of great info in it! im wondering if anyone has any experience running e85 through these things?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Ethanol likes to eat raw aluminium. You could anodize the carbs and you should be OK but its probably not worth it.


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## 1975bmw2002 (Mar 26, 2006)

i wouldnt run this on a car i drive everyday, but id have a switch to shut off the fuel pump and run the carbs dry so the fuel wont just sit in the carbs. it will absolutely eat gaskets if it sits in there, but ive never heard of it eating the aluminum. i have a kart that runs on methanol and aside from the gaskets in the carb getting hard ive never noticed any sort of pits in the polished I.D. of the carb from fuel. im not saying your wrong, but ethanol and methanol are very similar and i was curious as to why methanol doesnt harm the aluminum in my cart, but ethanol would. e85 and carbs would be a pita to start up, but having the ability to run a real high compression bottom end and being able to handle some extra timing seems like it could net some healthy gains. chances are im just gonna give it a shot and see what happens. after all, all i gotta do is swap jets assuming a carter can flow enough. its not like its a big turbo car thats gonna need a ton of extra fuel. im just thinking out loud. any input is appreciated. id really like to hear from someone that has experimented with this before.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

That's just what I have heard from a instructor I had at school that races super modified's. I could be wrong though on the fuel type.


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## 1975bmw2002 (Mar 26, 2006)

im pretty sure that they run methanol, like my kart. and he could be correct. im new to the methanol stuff as my kart is the first toy ive had that doesnt use gas. and since the super mods run meth he could be right. idk im gonna give it a shot someday and see how it holds up. fortunately these bike carbs are relatively cheap so if i did need some new bodies it wont cost much. i have a feeling it will take a long time for the ethanol to eat the aluminum. not to mention alot of these old heads will find all kinds of **** to blame on the "up to 10% ethanol added" gas.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Idk but try it and if it works great one more thing to do to my car


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Innovative LC-1*

How long does it usualy take to get the the warm up calibration on a Innovative LC-1 wideband air fuel set-up?
I'm also looking to upgrade my front upper strut mounts and I'm seeing alot more options than I expected. I hear that the mk3 or the vr6 mounts work well, but I want to know better which is best before I but there seems to be more than one option, which I didn't expect, but maby there are just alot of misrepresentative pictutes on ebay listings. A part # or a make and model refrence or I guess and hope for the best.
I'm currently running vr6 corrado monro struts with b3 gli passat springs on mk2 upper mounts and it's harsh, I need softer upper mount and cut the springs a bit.


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vrally said:


> How long does it usualy take to get the the warm up calibration on a Innovative LC-1 wideband air fuel set-up?
> I'm also looking to upgrade my front upper strut mounts and I'm seeing alot more options than I expected. I hear that the mk3 or the vr6 mounts work well, but I want to know better which is best before I but there seems to be more than one option, which I didn't expect, but maby there are just alot of misrepresentative pictutes on ebay listings. A part # or a make and model refrence or I guess and hope for the best.
> I'm currently running vr6 corrado monro struts with b3 gli passat springs on mk2 upper mounts and it's harsh, I need softer upper mount and cut the springs a bit.


When I setup my lc1 it only took a couple mins total for the whole calibration start to finish. 

I have vr6(late mk3) heavy duty front strut mounts and stock mk3 rear mounts. Rides fine but I'm also on air ride. 

I've cut a few sets of springs and never liked it since some times when you jack it up or it jostles around too much the spring falls off the perch and possibly down a coil or two. 

Just my 2 cents


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> How long does it usualy take to get the the warm up calibration on a Innovative LC-1 wideband air fuel set-up?
> I'm also looking to upgrade my front upper strut mounts and I'm seeing alot more options than I expected. I hear that the mk3 or the vr6 mounts work well, but I want to know better which is best before I but there seems to be more than one option, which I didn't expect, but maby there are just alot of misrepresentative pictutes on ebay listings. A part # or a make and model refrence or I guess and hope for the best.
> I'm currently running vr6 corrado monro struts with b3 gli passat springs on mk2 upper mounts and it's harsh, I need softer upper mount and cut the springs a bit.


i run vr6 strut mounts. not idea what the part number is. 
http://store.blackforestindustries.com/mk3vr6hedust.html
http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/2406


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks guys, I found the lc-1 manual online since my computer is too old for the disk that came with it, windows xp must pre-date win 98 ( I'm not a computer guy) 9 blinks is low voltage my reverse light sensor was shorting out. I'm glad I now know. 
I'll do the mk3 lowering upper perches with the mount, I don't think they should come off if I cut the springs in line with the axis of the origional position, I'll check out the blackforest link but it sounds like it shouldn't make much diffrence if I'm hearing you right, my poly lower bushings I'm sure play a role in my current discomfort with my set up. I'll play with it and see what I like.
Thanks for the input.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

A couple from the BeMoreEuro meet this weekend :thumbup: couple hundred miles on it this weekend, was good to get it out of the driveway


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

yeayeayea said:


> A couple from the BeMoreEuro meet this weekend :thumbup: couple hundred miles on it this weekend, was good to get it out of the driveway


:thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> I'll do the mk3 lowering upper perches with the mount, I don't think they should come off if I cut the springs in line with the axis of the origional position, I'll check out the blackforest link but it sounds like it shouldn't make much diffrence if I'm hearing you right, my poly lower bushings I'm sure play a role in my current discomfort with my set up. I'll play with it and see what I like.
> Thanks for the input.


Cutting the springs will help your ride height, but not your ride quality. The shorter you make the spring the higher the rate (stiffer) the spring gets. I've cut plenty of springs over the years with no ill effects, unless you go too far. The springs on my MK3 daily get a little loose in the strut when the suspension is fully unloaded (car jacked up), but it never sees that in standard use. Almost 4 years on this suspension and I've never had a coil unseat while driving the car. Just remember, you can always take more, but you can't put it back. Use a high speed cutoff wheel, and I usually go in 1/2 wind increments. I'm also usually trimming front springs to match sagging rears for a quick/cheap improvement in appearance. 

I've got a set of MK3 Nuespeed front Sport springs kicking around the garage I don't need. $20+shipping and they're yours! :laugh:


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## ddaan82 (May 21, 2013)

hello
I plugged carburetor to the engine yamaha r1 v 1.8 kr motor turns but does not start.
anyone know why? Do you have any ideas what is wrong?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

ddaan82 said:


> hello
> I plugged carburetor to the engine yamaha r1 v 1.8 kr motor turns but does not start.
> anyone know why? Do you have any ideas what is wrong?


check for spark, and fuel. really nothing else to keep a carbed engine from running...!:beer:


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## ddaan82 (May 21, 2013)

fuel pump is given spark proof, but two days ago it was installed injection k-Jetronik and everything was ok so what it might be??


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

ddaan82 said:


> fuel pump is given spark proof, but two days ago it was installed injection k-Jetronik and everything was ok so what it might be??


read this thread!


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## ddaan82 (May 21, 2013)

hello
Pieced it together and the car began to fire off there was a problem with the drive.
If the car is not running and it is running very smoothly and nicely
However, when driving suffocating August lint has a total lack of power compared to the orgy cr
Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this behavior?
It does not help to increase or reduce the amount of fuel ....


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

ddaan82 said:


> hello
> Pieced it together and the car began to fire off there was a problem with the drive.
> If the car is not running and it is running very smoothly and nicely
> However, when driving suffocating August lint has a total lack of power compared to the orgy cr
> ...


I'm not sure what to make out of that....
Clean the carbs, get to know your carbs and jet them correctly..... That's it.., watch for vacuum leaks..


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Yea..Yea......Yea, thats pretty!*

Yea...Yea......Yea, thats pretty!


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*17.5 Pilot Jets*

As I said 17.5 Pilot jets, WOW! 
I didn't expect that.
Now I'm not sure how to discribe the throttle response.
I thought I was supposed to lose some low rpm punch w/short runners.
Cam timing's only a little early with the new head and mls gasket and belt but it will break in strait.
I like my 17.5's.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I said early on the cam timing I ment late, it's hardly retarded at all that's how the break in will correct it.
I 'm not always sure it I'm still talking about the car sometimes, I know that I am because the car is a real thing sitting in the driveway, but it wouldn't be hard for me to imagine that I'm having an internal dialog about myself it I listened to the words out of context....homage to the fleeting nature of reality, as well as the even more fleeting nature of our perception of reality... I am similar in age and ethnicity with my gti, and that's just the most obvious of our similaritys.....finish thought.......don't think of finland , finish the thought that you began with....I'll see what the vw's got to say, i don't feel like I've finished it.................. Alot of agression and noise was that it.....no.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

^ Damn dude, you got to learn how to "Reply With Quote" :laugh:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> I said early on the cam timing I ment late, it's hardly retarded at all that's how the break in will correct it.
> I 'm not always sure it I'm still talking about the car sometimes, I know that I am because the car is a real thing sitting in the driveway, but it wouldn't be hard for me to imagine that I'm having an internal dialog about myself it I listened to the words out of context....homage to the fleeting nature of reality, as well as the even more fleeting nature of our perception of reality... I am similar in age and ethnicity with my gti, and that's just the most obvious of our similaritys.....finish thought.......don't think of finland , finish the thought that you began with....I'll see what the vw's got to say, i don't feel like I've finished it.................. Alot of agression and noise was that it.....no.


Bad day or did you really hit the sauce that early?? :laugh: I hope mine doesn't make me this frustrated! I'm hoping the "simplicity" of the carbs is a welcomed change to the cluttered mess of my VRT project!


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Well installed an innovate mtx-l on Thursday and found out how not so good my car is tuned. Its idling at 22.8 AFR and 16's ish at part throttle. But at WOT its running at a near perfect 12.4 AFR. So I got some more tunning to do this next week.


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## omeletduefromage (Jan 13, 2011)

does anyone still make the 16v flanges? all i could find was ina for 190 bucks but it still have the injector hole so it would still need to be filled. 

local waterjet place wanted close to 200 to have one made...


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Bad day or did you really hit the sauce that early?? :laugh: I hope mine doesn't make me this frustrated! I'm hoping the "simplicity" of the carbs is a welcomed change to the cluttered mess of my VRT project!


 I let myself get weird sometimes. No appologies


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I got my emissions hooked up (crank case, fuel tank and lower carb vents) I feel good about it and mostly I didn't like smelling the fumes comming from under the hood. Banjo fittings into the metal caps on the air filters gave me a port. 
200 main jets are proving too large for mine, wot reads low 9's and then it starts loading up, I ordered some 175 mains and I think the engines done....for now.


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## Roccobuilder80 (Oct 17, 2011)

*Question about fueling*

Hey guys, 

First off, thanks for this thread.... I'm building my track car with carbs because of this. 


I've read through this thread a few times, if this question has already been touched on, please point me in the right direction.... 

I will be using an ATL "well-cell". I plan on mounting the pump(carter 4070) underneath the rear seats. Will this pump be sufficient in pulling fuel from the cell up to the carbs? 

Also, I'm debating on using e85 just to be different and have another talking point at the track. I believe that bigger jets will provide enough fuel to the motor, I just need to make sure it gets there. 

Last but not least, what size fuel line are you all running? 1/4" work? 

Thanks ahead of time!.... jeremy


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Roccobuilder80 said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> First off, thanks for this thread.... I'm building my track car with carbs because of this.
> 
> ...


 3/8 for the fuel line. The nipple on the Carter pump is made for a 3/8 fuel line. Carter pump is a push pump, so its good to mount it as close to the tank as possible. I decided to still use the stock intank pump to deliver fuel to the Carter pump, which is located in the same location as the stock transfer pump. Check out my signature for my build thread with pictures.


----------



## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> I got my emissions hooked up (crank case, fuel tank and lower carb vents) I feel good about it and mostly I didn't like smelling the fumes comming from under the hood. Banjo fittings into the metal caps on the air filters gave me a port.
> 200 main jets are proving too large for mine, wot reads low 9's and then it starts loading up, I ordered some 175 mains and I think the engines done....for now.


 The fuel jet size depends on the your engine mods. When I got my car professionally tuned, 200 jets were the best for my engine. With a few more mods on the way, I'm planning on going to 210-220 jets.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

vrally said:


> I got my emissions hooked up (crank case, fuel tank and lower carb vents) I feel good about it and mostly I didn't like smelling the fumes comming from under the hood. Banjo fittings into the metal caps on the air filters gave me a port.
> 200 main jets are proving too large for mine, wot reads low 9's and then it starts loading up, I ordered some 175 mains and I think the engines done....for now.


 Post up some pics and what all you have done for your setup. Would be interesting to compare what each person has done the same and differently. :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> I let myself get weird sometimes. No appologies


And you shouldn't need to! :laugh: A little bit of weird keeps the world interesting! :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

funpig said:


> Post up some pics and what all you have done for your setup. Would be interesting to compare what each person has done the same and differently. :thumbup:


I like this idea. This thread has gotten a little long in the tooth to go back through all the time and everyone has had tuning time to get their setups sorted out a little better. It will help those of us who's projects move like molasses get them setup better out of the box! :laugh:


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

86Franklin said:


> Well installed an innovate mtx-l on Thursday and found out how not so good my car is tuned. Its idling at 22.8 AFR and 16's ish at part throttle. But at WOT its running at a near perfect 12.4 AFR. So I got some more tunning to do this next week.


 Did your motor ping at all like this?



omeletduefromage said:


> *does anyone still make the 16v flanges?* all i could find was ina for 190 bucks but it still have the injector hole so it would still need to be filled.
> 
> local waterjet place wanted close to 200 to have one made...


 I'd like to know this too. 

Is there any draw back to running a steel flange and runners vs aluminum?


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

And to all the guys running the stock in-tank pump. I see some people running regulators with a return line and some without. Which one should be used to prolong the life of the pump? I was just thinking, if the pump puts out more then the regulated pressure, wouldn't that put a strain on the pump?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Turbo3 said:


> And to all the guys running the stock in-tank pump. I see some people running regulators with a return line and some without. Which one should be used to prolong the life of the pump? I was just thinking, if the pump puts out more then the regulated pressure, wouldn't that put a strain on the pump?


you will need a return line if you run a high pressure primary fuel pump. Carbs dont require high pressure fuel supply. all you need to do is get a Carter p4070 fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and some new fuel lines if you want. You can leave the intank pump as so that it delivers fuel to the carter pump, which will replace the main fuel pump that is located under the rear passenger seat of the car.


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

rysskii3 said:


> you will need a return line if you run a high pressure primary fuel pump. Carbs dont require high pressure fuel supply. all you need to do is get a Carter p4070 fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator and some new fuel lines if you want. You can leave the intank pump as so that it delivers fuel to the carter pump, which will replace the main fuel pump that is located under the rear passenger seat of the car.


I should've been a little more clear. The guys running only the in-tank pump. I'm pulling the main pump out and am going to run just the in-tank pump. I can't find any specs for the in-tank pumps pressure. So I didn't know if it's better to run a return style FPR to help keep the strain off and prolong the life of the pump.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Turbo3 said:


> I should've been a little more clear. The guys running only the in-tank pump. I'm pulling the main pump out and am going to run just the in-tank pump. I can't find any specs for the in-tank pumps pressure. So I didn't know if it's better to run a return style FPR to help keep the strain off and prolong the life of the pump.


I wouldn't suggest doing that. Just get the Carter pump and build it properly.


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

plenty of people have done it, most of them in this thread. I just don't see the point using the carter when the stocker will work just fine.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Turbo3 said:


> plenty of people have done it, most of them in this thread. I just don't see the point using the carter when the stocker will work just fine.


Then you should pm them and ask.


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

I didn't want to do that but guess I'll have to

Your car is bad ass too by the way:thumbup:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I ran the stock in tank lift pump only, with a NON-return line FPR for about 4 years. No issues at all. And thats with a 24 year old lift pump too..


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

yeayeayea said:


> I ran the stock in tank lift pump only, with a NON-return line FPR for about 4 years. No issues at all. And thats with a 24 year old lift pump too..


I was just getting ready to PM you too lol. That's exactly what I wanted to know thanks.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Turbo3 said:


> I didn't want to do that but guess I'll have to
> 
> Your car is bad ass too by the way:thumbup:


Thanks


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## Turbo3 (Sep 15, 2005)

For all the guys running msd boxs

I seen in the msd wiring instructions that they have a wire for hall sensors. But out of all the msd setups I've only seen one car using it. Is their a why you're not using it?


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

OK guys, been running y car with r1 carbs without too much issue, but recently it started pegging lean at 20 (high as my innovative motorsports wideband shows). I've tried turning the idle mixture screws out up to 6 turns with no help. I also shimmed the needle with one washer. Currently running 190 mains drilled to the next size(going to order some 200 and 210's soon), stock pilot jets, shimmed needle, and tried anywhere between 3-6 turns like I said before. Acceleration, steady speed, and WOT I'm fine. But Can't seem to fix idle. I put on new silicone boots since mine were kind of haggard, new clamps, sprayed started fluid around the flange, manifold, boots, vacuum lines, etc and not getting any rpm increase. Still semi new on carbs other then a main jet increase in my bike etc. so any help is appreciated.


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## omeletduefromage (Jan 13, 2011)

if you are running lean at idle i would check your timing if its too far advanced or i would play around with changing the pilot jets to one size bigger


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## omeletduefromage (Jan 13, 2011)

hey guys idk if anyone is looking but i spare intake manifold flange that i dont need. if anyone is looking for one just feel free to pm me


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

omeletduefromage said:


> hey guys idk if anyone is looking but i spare intake manifold flange that i dont need. if anyone is looking for one just feel free to pm me


Post it in the for sale thread...


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

omeletduefromage said:


> if you are running lean at idle i would check your timing if its too far advanced or i would play around with changing the pilot jets to one size bigger


 I ordered 17.5 pilot jets last night. Also played around some more and tried 7 turns out and it was rich! So I dialed it back to about 6.75 turns and it idled in the 14's now. But now it pops like crazy! I checked my timing and it's good. I tried going back and forth with timing some on the dizzy and it still popped pretty much any place I was at. Popping is usually too much fuel igniting in the header correct? I have a pacesetter header and can hear it around the collector area popping. 

Also I have the original tci-h dizzy for the vac advance. Something to do with it? It idled fine when it was lean with very very little popping. 


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

craigerk said:


> I ordered 17.5 pilot jets last night. Also played around some more and tried 7 turns out and it was rich! So I dialed it back to about 6.75 turns and it idled in the 14's now. But now it pops like crazy! I checked my timing and it's good. I tried going back and forth with timing some on the dizzy and it still popped pretty much any place I was at. Popping is usually too much fuel igniting in the header correct? I have a pacesetter header and can hear it around the collector area popping.
> 
> Also I have the original tci-h dizzy for the vac advance. Something to do with it? It idled fine when it was lean with very very little popping.
> 
> ...


 well, only update I have is that I disconnected the vac advance on the dizzy and it runs a crap tone better. Only popping is from deceleration like usual. What do you guys have your timing set at with no vac advance hooked up? I thought I saw someone talk about it earlier in the thread but a quick search didn't show anything so I must have missed it.


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## omeletduefromage (Jan 13, 2011)

Well that's good to know. I'm switching from an msd timing computer to the saab dizzy. The mechanical advance is good enough? 

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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

omeletduefromage said:


> Well that's good to know. I'm switching from an msd timing computer to the saab dizzy. The mechanical advance is good enough?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


 my car runs great with MSD ignition and stock distributor. I just added the MSD timing module so i can control the ignition from inside the car on the fly. 
During dyno tuning of the carbs, at WOT the timing was exactly it should be. 
Check out my build thread in the signature for pictures.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Are you guys buying larger jets? Or just drilling the old ones? If your buying them, where? 

Thanks! :thumbup:


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## omeletduefromage (Jan 13, 2011)

I bought larger jets from bike bandit. They had all the way up to 210. I bought 190 and I can drill them out a tad if I need to

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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vwscotty said:


> Are you guys buying larger jets? Or just drilling the old ones? If your buying them, where?
> 
> Thanks! :thumbup:


 I got mine from jetsrus.com I went with 190 also but ended up drilling them out to the next size. I also just ordered 17.5 pilot jets. 

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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

i also bought 190, but had them drilled out to 200


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks guys!:beer: 

Sounds like 200 is the way to go


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Thanks guys!:beer:
> 
> Sounds like 200 with is the way to go


 The size depends on the engine mods... get an afr gauge and get different size jets.


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## youpokedthebear (Oct 24, 2009)

I've gathered all the parts to R1 carb an OBD1 ABA for my 79 Rabbit except the intake, which will be made soon, and have a question:

I've read through the thread and see mention of running the Mk1 vacuum advance distributor and people questioning pulling the vacuum for the distributor from a runner. Has anyone come to a conclusion that this is a bad idea? Do you just let the vacuum advance to atmosphere?


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

You guys running the mk1 ignition with your carbs, is this all your using?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vw-Rabbit-MK1-Caddy-Jetta-OEM-Ignition-Control-Module-/320202106495

From what I read it sounds like you can run 93 octane and not worry about the knock box.

Or is there more to it than that?


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

Schpamb said:


> I've gathered all the parts to R1 carb an OBD1 ABA for my 79 Rabbit except the intake, which will be made soon, and have a question:
> 
> I've read through the thread and see mention of running the Mk1 vacuum advance distributor and people questioning pulling the vacuum for the distributor from a runner. Has anyone come to a conclusion that this is a bad idea? Do you just let the vacuum advance to atmosphere?


I tapped all 4 runners, have 3 running my brake booster and one running my vacuum advance. I originally had all of them together (the 4 runner hoses together and both vac advance and booster on the same line) but when I stopped the car would bog down sometimes because it was pulling the vacuum away from the distributor. I ran it without the vac advance hooked up and it ran fine just power dwindled over like 3k rpm or so. When I finally last week got my car running great I put the vac advance back on and it ran much better after adjusting my timing again to it. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vwscotty said:


> You guys running the mk1 ignition with your carbs, is this all your using?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vw-Rabbit-MK1-Caddy-Jetta-OEM-Ignition-Control-Module-/320202106495
> 
> ...


I am running the mk2 ignition with vacuum advance, which I'm pretty sure is the same thing, (looks like the same ignition module) no pinging and I always run 93 or the highest the gas station has. On an aba motor btw. 

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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

craigerk said:


> I am running the mk2 ignition with vacuum advance, which I'm pretty sure is the same thing, (looks like the same ignition module) no pinging and I always run 93 or the highest the gas station has. On an aba motor btw.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk 2


Sounds great! :thumbup: I'm looking to do the same thing with my aba. 

How do you like that setup? And is there anything else I need (ignition wise) other than that ignition module and vacuum advance distributor?


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vwscotty said:


> Sounds great! :thumbup: I'm looking to do the same thing with my aba.
> 
> How do you like that setup? And is there anything else I need (ignition wise) other than that ignition module and vacuum advance distributor?


Love the set up so far. Only problems I had were Me cheaping out on some parts and some bad gaskets. Do your self a favor and buy good parts and not cheap, I would have had mine running weeks sooner then I did if I had.

Ignition wise it's just the icu, distributor, and coil. I used the left side diagram when diagnosing wires....









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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks craigerk! That helped a ton!


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm glad to see that this thread is still going. 
I have a question about the saab dizzy.
I bought one without much info on it and another that will be in next week. The one I have has no harness connector and 2 prongs leading out. I was hopeing that it would be a standard hall sender, or even points I understand, but with 2 leads I'm unsure how to wire it. Maby I treat it like a aftermarket electronic points conversion and run one lead to either side of a points coil, but I'm not sure and I haven't been able to google anything very usefull. 
So, how to wire an 81 Saab 900 8v 2 prong distributor if anyone out there is so savy.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vrally said:


> I'm glad to see that this thread is still going.
> I have a question about the saab dizzy.
> I bought one without much info on it and another that will be in next week. The one I have has no harness connector and 2 prongs leading out. I was hopeing that it would be a standard hall sender, or even points I understand, but with 2 leads I'm unsure how to wire it. Maby I treat it like a aftermarket electronic points conversion and run one lead to either side of a points coil, but I'm not sure and I haven't been able to google anything very usefull.
> So, how to wire an 81 Saab 900 8v 2 prong distributor if anyone out there is so savy.


Damn, 10 years ago I had the factory service manuals to cover that, but I don't even think I have a Haynes manual around, anymore. Let me check with my one buddy, though, he's still got a pile of Saabs/Saab stuff.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Here's some "early model 900" wiring diagrams I found, though they don't say what years. Part 1 has the distributor and shows 3 wires. Part 6 has the index/key on it. 

http://j-ware.no-ip.com/saab/Saab 900 Wiring diagram (early models)/

Here's another thread that at least mentions a bit about it:

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/bb/900/index.html?bID=436526

From what else I was finding/reading (very little) that 2-wire distributor is more of a points style of setup. Not sure exactly what's inside it, though.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks. 
He called it an energy field type which is what it looks like with copper coiling arround the hub.
The diagram was for a hall sending unit, but it sounds like it has an icm so there will likely be an knock box input, which is good. I'll have to keep hunting I guess to figure out how to wire it though.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*2 prong Saab distributor*

I spent hours trying to research this distributor last night with no real progress made. I'm at a loss for how there could be no attainable information on this. The internet has truely let me down.


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## vrally (Dec 15, 2005)

*Saab Distributor*

Well, I might still be talking to myself here, but, I still haven't concored the 2 wire saab distributor wiring, though I haven't given up, I bought a 3 wire Saab distrubutor for $100 off ebay.
Now begins a new distributor wiring delima. It has a small round-ish harness connection and dispite my best efforts I can't find a Saab factory harness connector for the new dizzy.
I would very much prefer a factory connector and if anyone knows how to locate one let me know, but tomarrow I'm going to try not to make too ugly and sloppy a sight out of it when I melt some leads off it to get it going for now. I miss dirving the beast, my work truck is an air conditioned chore to drive by comparison.
WTB Oval 8v Saab distributor wire harness connector.
Also, RPMs hover when I lift off the throttle after digging in. I don't think I'm getting enough vacuum to knock ecu. I noticed that alot of people are leaving the vac line off of it (as well as vac advance distributors)
Has anyone tryed using a vacuum amplifier? I think old muscle cars with high lift cams used to use them to compensate for low idle vacuum ignition issues.
I'm thinking about trying it out. Maby plug the resiovor back in.


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Hey vrally. I'm running a vaccum Saab dizzy. As for the connector I cut the plastic away and solder a pigtail to the dizzy. Seeing as you want a cleaner route the old small liter vw engines (forward slant 1.1l etc) used the same dizzy. If you have etka you might find the part number in there. Also with the vac advance the knock box isn't needed just the ICM. I had to modify the mounts on the dizzy to allow for enough adjustment for it to idle and rev well you may have to do the same.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vrally said:


> Well, I might still be talking to myself here, but, I still haven't concored the 2 wire saab distributor wiring, though I haven't given up, I bought a 3 wire Saab distrubutor for $100 off ebay.
> Now begins a new distributor wiring delima. It has a small round-ish harness connection and dispite my best efforts I can't find a Saab factory harness connector for the new dizzy.
> I would very much prefer a factory connector and if anyone knows how to locate one let me know, but tomarrow I'm going to try not to make too ugly and sloppy a sight out of it when I melt some leads off it to get it going for now. I miss dirving the beast, my work truck is an air conditioned chore to drive by comparison.
> WTB Oval 8v Saab distributor wire harness connector.
> ...


why not just use the stock distributor. look at my build thread in my signature


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I've successfully swapped out broken connectors on VW distributors, leaving the wiring and pins attached and just changing the plastic. Can you maybe swap the connector housing on the distributor with a VW one?


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

Wish I would've done that...


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

I was looking through the ratsun forums and found this PDF of fitting R1 carbs on cars. http://www.totalvauxhall.co.uk/files/legacy/TOV64.tech60697.pdf


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## masterbee (Mar 26, 2012)

Miami Blue said:


> _Modified by Miami Blue at 12:10 PM 4-17-2010_


Trying to run this system on my mk3. Anyone know what t50 on starter is. I don't see a 50 pin connector anywhere too obvious.

Thanks!


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

Its the connection from the ICM to the starter trigger terminal.


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

*Obd2 aba mk3 icm wiring*

Okay so I love carbs but I was tired of waiting 2-3 weeks for parts for my dellorto dhla so I sold em and started putting a r1 carb set up together. I have everything I need. 
R1 carbs (I bought 17.5 pilots, 180, 190 mains )
Converted a 4 window dizzy already 
Pressure regulator 
I have a low pressure fuel pump as well just I case 
And an 7 pin icm. 

Now it's been 8months since I had my dellortos on my mk3. Maybe my brain is on overload or I'm starting to loose it with age. But I can't remember how to wire the icm into a mk3 harness. 
I won't be running a msd yet. 
So I'm looking for a icm diagram for a non knock box non msd set up for a mk3. 
I spliced into the hall sender wires last time I believe.
:banghead:
Needless to say I want to get this in this weekend so I can get it all dialed in and synced running properly so I can make 1 more track event this year.


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

b5blazing said:


> Okay so I love carbs but I was tired of waiting 2-3 weeks for parts for my dellorto dhla so I sold em and started putting a r1 carb set up together. I have everything I need.
> R1 carbs (I bought 17.5 pilots, 180, 190 mains )
> Converted a 4 window dizzy already
> Pressure regulator
> ...





craigerk said:


> Love the set up so far. Only problems I had were Me cheaping out on some parts and some bad gaskets. Do your self a favor and buy good parts and not cheap, I would have had mine running weeks sooner then I did if I had.
> 
> Ignition wise it's just the icu, distributor, and coil. I used the left side diagram when diagnosing wires....
> 
> ...


Need to know what ICM you're running, but here's a few diagrams that illustrate how to wire it in. Notice how the 16v ICM doesn't use the pins that are used in the 8V ICM. You most likely have the ICM numbered 7-1, which in that case, just wire it according to the pin number as shown in the left diagram.


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

starksan said:


> Need to know what ICM you're running, but here's a few diagrams that illustrate how to wire it in. Notice how the 16v ICM doesn't use the pins that are used in the 8V ICM. You most likely have the ICM numbered 7-1, which in that case, just wire it according to the pin number as shown in the left diagram.


 Thank you
Part # off my icm 
191 905 351b 
Icm and dizzy came off of same 8v in the junk yard

Everything but the icm is in the car ready to go. The mk3 actually will start and run without the icm but it's not drivable but I was stupid happy when it started on first try. :laugh:


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

Spent yesterday swapping in the icm following a the 84 gti diagram and wasn't getting any spark. 
So I reread diagram tried again still no spark. So I tried another diagram posted a few pages back. Still nothing. Swap the mk3 stuff back in and it starts and runs. :facepalm: Frustrated as a mother****er. 
So I'm grabbing another icm maybe it's bad maybe I'm just retarded. :wave:


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

b5blazing said:


> Spent yesterday swapping in the icm following a the 84 gti diagram and wasn't getting any spark.
> So I reread diagram tried again still no spark. So I tried another diagram posted a few pages back. Still nothing. Swap the mk3 stuff back in and it starts and runs. :facepalm: Frustrated as a mother****er.
> So I'm grabbing another icm maybe it's bad maybe I'm just retarded. :wave:


When you figure it out let us know what the problem was. Im doing this very soon and would love to avoid the no spark frustration if possible :laugh:

Good luck :thumbup:


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

:banghead:
No progress made. I'm now just leaning toward going with and ignition box. Regardless I was planning on it down the road but why trig and wire in the icm to rewire the car for an ignition box this winter.
Wether it's Msd or megajolt I'm undecided right now. :screwy:
I'm making a trip to the yard this week so I'm going to look for a 36-1 trigger wheel for a ford edis set up. If I have any luck I'll go Mallory or mega jolt. But if not I'll go Msd.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

b5blazing said:


> :banghead:
> No progress made. I'm now just leaning toward going with and ignition box. Regardless I was planning on it down the road but why trig and wire in the icm to rewire the car for an ignition box this winter.
> Wether it's Msd or megajolt I'm undecided right now. :screwy:
> I'm making a trip to the yard this week so I'm going to look for a 36-1 trigger wheel for a ford edis set up. If I have any luck I'll go Mallory or mega jolt. But if not I'll go Msd.


my msd setup has been working great


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

I'd run the MSD box and coil, because I'm a lazy schit.
MJ is a great alternative but you'd need to fab a bracket for the CPS and do some modification to the crank pulley to attach the trigger wheel; source an EDIS module and coil pack. Then you have to determine if you want to run MJ off of MAP(vacuum tubes from all runners: best ran from a vacuum manifold block), or TPS(since one is already installed on the carbs). I'm pretty sure the TPS on the mikuni's will play nice with the other components. Cost of the parts will add up. Especially the connectors. 

You might be able to pull the whole system off of an 90-93 Escort, or 95-01 Ranger from an auto salvage yard for cheap. 

If you do go this route, post some pics of how you configure the trigger wheel and CPS.


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

starksan said:


> I'd run the MSD box and coil, because I'm a lazy schit.
> MJ is a great alternative but you'd need to fab a bracket for the CPS and do some modification to the crank pulley to attach the trigger wheel; source an EDIS module and coil pack. Then you have to determine if you want to run MJ off of MAP(vacuum tubes from all runners: best ran from a vacuum manifold block), or TPS(since one is already installed on the carbs). I'm pretty sure the TPS on the mikuni's will play nice with the other components. Cost of the parts will add up. Especially the connectors.
> 
> You might be able to pull the whole system off of an 90-93 Escort, or 95-01 Ranger from an auto salvage yard for cheap.
> ...


Actually I was looking into the mega jolt and most of the connectors are cheap. http://www.autosportlabs.com/-c-32.htmlI read up on what to pull parts off and escorts are a dime a dozen at the yard by me. But yeah the tps on the r1 carbs actually looks just like the ford tps unit so swapping to the ford tps should be easy. 
But I'm going to the yard today. And I actually have some time so I don't have to rush. 
But I would problem due trigger wheel or the tps. I have a lw custom crank pulley for my aba with the ps v belt section removed so mounting the 36-1 and the sensor shouldn't be hard. And my engine bay is pretty clean (no evap , ps, ac or harnesses really car was an auto I swapped to manual) and I have a ton of room to build brackets and such. opcorn:
In my head I envision using the eom ps bracket to mount the crank trigger, but who knows how close it will be !


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

This may be a stupid question....but is this all I need to run the vacuum advanced dizzy?

This distributor: http://secarpart.com/products.php?product=Ignition-Distributor-%2d-043905205N

and this adapter: http://techtonicstuning.com/main/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_11_5_248&products_id=1370



Is it really that simple? Or am I missing something?

or is this the distributor i want? http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/A1_Cardone/Distributor/A131938.html


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

vwscotty said:


> This may be a stupid question....but is this all I need to run the vacuum advanced dizzy?
> 
> This distributor: http://secarpart.com/products.php?product=Ignition-Distributor-%2d-043905205N
> 
> ...


^^^^ this guy is the same but you can just get a dizzy from a junk yard and buy the adapter ring (just check vacuum pot) and swap spur gears. 
It's not hard takes 5 minutes to swap gears. 
As for me I had some family **** come up so I didn't get to get any parts or time on my car. 
Hey PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUCMENT wear your seat belts. Your family will be happy you make it out of the car even if your banged up


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vwscotty said:


> This may be a stupid question....but is this all I need to run the vacuum advanced dizzy?
> 
> This distributor: http://secarpart.com/products.php?product=Ignition-Distributor-%2d-043905205N
> 
> ...


You want the last one you posted. The first one you posted is for air cooled and whatnot. Plus it's points and the button doesn't have the spot for the gear. But like he said above. Just grab one from a junkyard or eBay.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk now Free


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Thanks for the help! Unfortunately I haven't been able to find any junkyards around me that have any VWs :banghead:


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

Alright guys,
After reading through and drooling in here many times, I have questions.

1. Do any of you run these on a daily driver that you use during the winter?
2. Do any of you run carbs that have a cable choke?

I really want runs bike carbs and have found almost everything I need.
I just want to be sure I will be able to run them in really cold conditions.

Thanks


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

oopseyesharted said:


> Alright guys,
> After reading through and drooling in here many times, I have questions.
> 
> 1. Do any of you run these on a daily driver that you use during the winter?
> ...


1. Somewhere in this thread (Im not sure which page) someone said they daily drove their car with bike carbs.

2. I believe most of the carbs in this thread have a cable choke. I know the R1 carbs do. Look around this thread I know this is covered a few times. Most just picked up a universal choke cable and mounted that up.

From my understanding the only issue you'll have in the winter is starting it cold. But if you let it warm up it should be fine. I dont have my carbs installed yet so I cant say first hand, so someone chime in if Im incorrect.


----------



## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Here is a useful write up I found on the R1 forum one how to completely disassemble the carbs and clean them. Great if you have a set that has been sitting around for a while.

http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3711774&postcount=7


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

I know the song says "Scotty doesnt know", but you knew some good stuff.
That song is BS.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Here is a useful write up I found on the R1 forum one how to completely disassemble the carbs and clean them. Great if you have a set that has been sitting around for a while.
> 
> http://www.r1-forum.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3711774&postcount=7


Nice find! I'll be needing this when I'm ready to start driving mine.

oopseyesharted: I used a 6' universal choke cable from the either Holley, or the Help! aisle at your local parts store. It just makes it to the factory choke location on the dash of my Cabby. Sorry for the crappy pics.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Nice find! I'll be needing this when I'm ready to start driving mine.
> 
> oopseyesharted: I used a 6' universal choke cable from the either Holley, or the Help! aisle at your local parts store. It just makes it to the factory choke location on the dash of my Cabby. Sorry for the crappy pics.


That's the same thing I did initially on my 16v. After using a few times, I found it hard to operate. So I relocated it to the pass side. Check out my build thread for pics.


----------



## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

I have finally got my car together. It's been running for about a month now. It's so fliping fun to drive. Here are a few pics of the bay.



[/URL

[URL=http://s1087.photobucket.com/user/captpete13/media/20131101_185640_zps21fb9a22.jpg.html]

Right now I have doubled up window screen for an air filter. But that will probably change soon.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

What are you guys doing with the PCV valve? Get rid of it and run a catch can?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> What are you guys doing with the PCV valve? Get rid of it and run a catch can?


That's my plan.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> What are you guys doing with the PCV valve? Get rid of it and run a catch can?


yup. actually dual catch can. venting both the block and valve cover.


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## funpig (Feb 13, 2003)

*Bike Carbs on ABA w choke and breather*



vwscotty said:


> 1. Somewhere in this thread (Im not sure which page) someone said they daily drove their car with bike carbs.
> 
> 2. I believe most of the carbs in this thread have a cable choke. I know the R1 carbs do. Look around this thread I know this is covered a few times. Most just picked up a universal choke cable and mounted that up.
> 
> From my understanding the only issue you'll have in the winter is starting it cold. But if you let it warm up it should be fine. I dont have my carbs installed yet so I cant say first hand, so someone chime in if Im incorrect.



I've been DD'ing mine now for about 2 1/2 years, although our winters aren't the worst here in the Atlanta area. I just got a universal cable from Oriellys and it works fine for the choke. Get in, start the pump, push the pedal to the floor twice, pull out the choke, start it up. Its like starting a tractor really...only a little more fun. I am also running a catch can with vents from block and valve cover. This is really an easy setup and fun. Not a lot of tinkering to do once you get through the teething of the early install. Did this same setup on 2 other cars in the local area...Fun Fun. :thumbup:


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## bmxguy (Sep 18, 2008)

captreils said:


> I have finally got my car together. It's been running for about a month now. It's so fliping fun to drive. Here are a few pics of the bay.
> 
> 
> 
> Right now I have doubled up window screen for an air filter. But that will probably change soon.


What size jet's?


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

bmxguy said:


> What size jet's?


I drilled out the mains to 170. And I went up one size on the pilot jets,15-17.5. And I think the mixture screws are around 3.5 turns out.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

bmxguy said:


> What size jet's?


mine is at 200, drilled by dyno tuning shop.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> mine is at 200, drilled by dyno tuning shop.





captreils said:


> I drilled out the mains to 170. And I went up one size on the pilot jets,15-17.5. And I think the mixture screws are around 3.5 turns out.


But what are the rest of the specs? 8V or 16V? Stock or aftermarket cam(s)? A built 2.0L 16V with big valves, port work, and big cams is going to run a different jet size than a stock 8V ABA.  :thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> But what are the rest of the specs? 8V or 16V? Stock or aftermarket cam(s)? A built 2.0L 16V with big valves, port work, and big cams is going to run a different jet size than a stock 8V ABA.  :thumbup:


All specs are in my build thread, in the signature.


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## youpokedthebear (Oct 24, 2009)

Do any of you guys running an ABA have a way of reproducing your intake to sell off?

I have an aluminum flange and R1 carbs, but finding a shop locally to fab the intake is proving to be difficult.


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

YJSAABMAN said:


> But what are the rest of the specs? 8V or 16V? Stock or aftermarket cam(s)? A built 2.0L 16V with big valves, port work, and big cams is going to run a different jet size than a stock 8V ABA.  :thumbup:


9A block,PL head. Techtonics cams,can't remember lift/duration. A/f guage is in the green at WOT and part throttle so I'm good to go


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

hey guys whats up... questions here about jets and fuel demand.

i'm running R1 cars on my new engine build. 1.8lPL 16v block mated to a OBD2 aba head. milled .05. engine is 100% rebuilt. besides cam(awaiting for a 272) ARP everything. TT adj cam gear. lightened IM shaft. TT light weight lifters. TT HD valve springs

this is a really high compression set up. estimated to be around 15:1. i'm making around 260PSI per cylinder. that only increases once the rings seat. 

i'm going to run a full MSD ignition. 

i'm seeing people go between 1.8mm and 2.0mm. i'm running 108+ octane race fuel. what jets should i start with? as my fuel demand is a little more then most of the engine i've been seeing in here. 

any info on this is great. i appreciate it. 

also where is the place to buy these jets. 

thanks
-donald


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

vw88 said:


> hey guys whats up... questions here about jets and fuel demand.
> 
> i'm running R1 cars on my new engine build. 1.8lPL 16v block mated to a OBD2 aba head. milled .05. engine is 100% rebuilt. besides cam(awaiting for a 272) ARP everything. TT adj cam gear. lightened IM shaft. TT light weight lifters. TT HD valve springs
> 
> ...


This sounds like a really nice build! I got my jets from bikebandit.com

As far as size, I'm not really sure I can give you an accurate answer. My guess is that you'd need at least a 2.0mm but again, thats just a guess.

Good luck! :beer:


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

vwscotty said:


> This sounds like a really nice build! I got my jets from bikebandit.com
> 
> As far as size, I'm not really sure I can give you an accurate answer. My guess is that you'd need at least a 2.0mm but again, thats just a guess.
> 
> Good luck! :beer:


thanks for the reply. i appreciate it! it may be up forsale soon. as i'm saving money to import a car to the US.


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## kyndig (Jul 26, 2004)

Hi guys,

I'm doing a 2L 16V swap into a rabbit. I got it to start for the first time yesterday, so that's a plus. However, I've got a question on the cooling system. What is everyone using for a coolant flange on the front of the head? Mine is angled, and also has a down line to the waterpump, which I believe is stock on all of these engines. But the problem is that it's angled so that the hose to the radiator is trying to go through the float on cylinder 2 and the fuel in line to the carbs. Are you 16Vers just cramming the hose in there and making it fit, or are you making a custom flange so it's not as bent and sneaks between #2 and #3 cylinders, or is there some type of OE option available from another engine?

Any help appreciated, thanks! :beer::beer:


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## Robear (Jun 13, 2012)

Is there anyone still making the flanges for a 16v? I have no problem getting the tubes welded up but the actual 16v flange is not that easy to get done in my area.. found a few places but the want big $$$


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Robear said:


> Is there anyone still making the flanges for a 16v? I have no problem getting the tubes welded up but the actual 16v flange is not that easy to get done in my area.. found a few places but the want big $$$


Search online, I have seen it for about $70


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

would these be the right jets to buy ?
http://www.bikebandit.com/mikuni-large-round-main-jet-kn100-604-4-pack?m=146028


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> would these be the right jets to buy ?
> http://www.bikebandit.com/mikuni-large-round-main-jet-kn100-604-4-pack?m=146028


Make sure those are specifically for your year carbs... I would search for like 1999 r1000 main fuel jets.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

rysskii3 said:


> Make sure those are specifically for your year carbs... I would search for like 1999 r1000 main fuel jets.


i have. nothing really says. yeah these are it. which did you purchase?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> i have. nothing really says. yeah these are it. which did you purchase?


http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_street/yamaha_1000_YZF-R1.htm


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

rysskii3 said:


> http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_street/yamaha_1000_YZF-R1.htm


sweet just bought some.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> sweet just bought some.


:thumbup:


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## youpokedthebear (Oct 24, 2009)

I have an MSD 6425 Digital 6AL for my setup with a TT276 in an ABA. I plan on using my early vacuum advance dizzy, but after reading all the issues with vacuum advance not working properly and having to run it unhooked, I think I might like to go the MSD timing computer route. My question is, which MSD timing computer is it that everyone is using?


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

craigerk said:


> Love the set up so far. Only problems I had were Me cheaping out on some parts and some bad gaskets. Do your self a favor and buy good parts and not cheap, I would have had mine running weeks sooner then I did if I had.
> 
> Ignition wise it's just the icu, distributor, and coil. I used the left side diagram when diagnosing wires....
> 
> ...


Ok, another dumb wiring question for you guys. If I use the icu, distributor and coil like the left side diagram above, can I then disconnect the the original ecu without any problems? Or are there additional wires that need to be run?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Ok, another dumb wiring question for you guys. If I use the icu, distributor and coil like the left side diagram above, can I then disconnect the the original ecu without any problems? Or are there additional wires that need to be run?


i use almost similar setup but i have a set of msd additoins that run everything. ecu and all original wiring is gone.
your sig says 90 vw, but you are following an 84 vw diagram?


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vwscotty said:


> Ok, another dumb wiring question for you guys. If I use the icu, distributor and coil like the left side diagram above, can I then disconnect the the original ecu without any problems? Or are there additional wires that need to be run?


You need everything in the diagram. The stock computer that was running your stock stuff will not be needed and unplugged. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

rysskii3 said:


> i use almost similar setup but i have a set of msd additoins that run everything. ecu and all original wiring is gone.
> your sig says 90 vw, but you are following an 84 vw diagram?


I think he's ditching all his stock ignition and putting in the diagram like I did. 

Well, mine had it stock. Then i took it out for an aba swap with the efi and all then decided to do carbs so had to put it all back in lol

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> i use almost similar setup but i have a set of msd additoins that run everything. ecu and all original wiring is gone.
> your sig says 90 vw, but you are following an 84 vw diagram?


Like craigerk said Im trying to ditch stock ignition. I have the icu and vacuum distributor off of a 84 rabbit that will go in with the carbs. So it will be a 1990 golf with a 1995 aba engine with 2001 r1 carbs with a 1984 ignition system...haha definitely going to be interesting putting this together :laugh:

I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something that is currently getting power from the stock ecu that wont work when when it is disconnected. Like something that would possible need to be jumped or have a new wire fed from the fusebox. Replacing that whole harness with the 6 from the '84 icu just seemed too easy... and nothing is ever easy, especially not in my driveway haha


On a side note, rysskii3 thanks for responding to my other thread, where I was asking about getting trumpets for the carbs. I took your advice and went with the same filters as you. :beer: with a quick mock up, it looks like its just going to clear the radiator


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## craigerk (Feb 4, 2009)

vwscotty said:


> Like craigerk said Im trying to ditch stock ignition. I have the icu and vacuum distributor off of a 84 rabbit that will go in with the carbs. So it will be a 1990 golf with a 1995 aba engine with 2001 r1 carbs with a 1984 ignition system...haha definitely going to be interesting putting this together :laugh:
> 
> I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something that is currently getting power from the stock ecu that wont work when when it is disconnected. Like something that would possible need to be jumped or have a new wire fed from the fusebox. Replacing that whole harness with the 6 from the '84 icu just seemed too easy... and nothing is ever easy, especially not in my driveway haha
> 
> ...



I have an 86 westy golf with a 98 aba 2001 carbs. And I took all the 86 wiring out, put in aba with the ecu wiring etc then pulled it all and put the 86 wiring back in lol its not too bad. 

I used weber 45 velocity stacks. Fit nice and tight. 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

craigerk said:


> I have an 86 westy golf with a 98 aba 2001 carbs. And I took all the 86 wiring out, put in aba with the ecu wiring etc then pulled it all and put the 86 wiring back in lol its not too bad.
> 
> I used weber 45 velocity stacks. Fit nice and tight.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk



Things would have been easier for both of us if we skipped wiring the aba the first time and went right to carbs haha


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

I was just thinking...would the stock aba ignition work too? Aba icu, coil and distributor? No reason why it wouldn't right? Obviously Id loose the vacuum advance feature but this wouldn't be a permanent setup, I just want to build in steps to narrow down any problems that may occur. So basically Id install the carbs, fuel pump, ect. Run it on stock ignition, diagnose any problems with the setup so far. Then convert the ignition over and again run it, and diagnose and problems.

What do you guys think?


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

will a 3.5 MAX PSI pump feed these carbs enough?


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

vw88 said:


> will a 3.5 MAX PSI pump feed these carbs enough?


Other people in this thread were saying they are running between 3 and 5 psi. You might be able to get away with a 3.5 max pump, but I think you might be safer with a little more


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Other people in this thread were saying they are running between 3 and 5 psi. You might be able to get away with a 3.5 max pump, but I think you might be safer with a little more


whats the max of carter pump? mine gauge shows about 3-3.5psi when idling


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> whats the max of carter pump? mine gauge shows about 3-3.5psi when idling


I'm not sure what the max of the carter pump is, I'm using the r1 fuel pump. I got the 3-5 psi range from what people were saying back earlier in the thread. (around page 10 i think.)


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## Gh0sTly (Feb 18, 2012)

I know this might have been covered already, but with as large as this thread is, its hard to search all the info. It'd be great if someone wrote up a howto on carbs with standalone ignition. 

Anyway, my questions are these:
Ive got an ABA that I am looking to run R1 carbs on. I'm not worried about jets because I can get those sorted. My worry is that I have none of the original ABA wiring, and I want to go with the least amount of wiring on this as possible. Is it possible to run this setup with a MSD ignition and nothing else? Where do I get the "knock box"? I've got a vacuum advance distributor from a early 1.8l as well. The car its going into has a CIS-E system in it that is untouched. Can that be used on the ABA for ignition and knock and not get the MSD ignition? I'm just trying to get everything figured out before I go buying stuff that I may not need.

I know this is a lot to ask, but I'm just wanting to get my ducks in a row before I go putting this ABA together. :laugh:


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Gh0sTly said:


> I know this might have been covered already, but with as large as this thread is, its hard to search all the info. It'd be great if someone wrote up a howto on carbs with standalone ignition.
> 
> Anyway, my questions are these:
> Ive got an ABA that I am looking to run R1 carbs on. I'm not worried about jets because I can get those sorted. My worry is that I have none of the original ABA wiring, and I want to go with the least amount of wiring on this as possible. Is it possible to run this setup with a MSD ignition and nothing else? Where do I get the "knock box"? I've got a vacuum advance distributor from a early 1.8l as well. The car its going into has a CIS-E system in it that is untouched. Can that be used on the ABA for ignition and knock and not get the MSD ignition? I'm just trying to get everything figured out before I go buying stuff that I may not need.
> ...


IIRC to run the MSD igntion you'll need the ICU that is for the distributor your using. The knock box is another part of the early ignition that retards the timing if knocking occurs. rysskii3 is running the MSD with knock box set up, take a look through his build thread.


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## Gh0sTly (Feb 18, 2012)

vwscotty said:


> IIRC to run the MSD igntion you'll need the ICU that is for the distributor your using. The knock box is another part of the early ignition that retards the timing if knocking occurs. rysskii3 is running the MSD with knock box set up, take a look through his build thread.


Will do. The car I've got is all CIS-E, and its a completely untouched wiring system. Is it possible to put the 1.8l dizzy into the 2l? I've considered megajolt as well, knowing the ABA has a crank sensor, but I'm not 100% sure I wanna go coilpacks. What would be the advantages other than a basic "major wiring delete" from the stock harness with using Megajolt?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> IIRC to run the MSD igntion you'll need the ICU that is for the distributor your using. The knock box is another part of the early ignition that retards the timing if knocking occurs. rysskii3 is running the MSD with knock box set up, take a look through his build thread.


no knock box on my setup. just ICM and MSD.
you guys can look at my build thread in my sig. The latest MSD setup is later in the thread, i changed the 6a to 6al ignition box, but other than that everything is the same.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

has anyone had experience hooking up the MSD 6AL2? the non PC programmable one.... i bought this for my set up. and i've also read. with this box. you can run without ICM. it directly runs off the distributor. this has built in rev limit. and built in 2-step.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> has anyone had experience hooking up the MSD 6AL2? the non PC programmable one.... i bought this for my set up. and i've also read. with this box. you can run without ICM. it directly runs off the distributor. this has built in rev limit. and built in 2-step.


read the MSD instructions for that box. There will be a description of what each wire does. One you know that, you can kind of use the diagram above to make it work.


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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

vw88 said:


> has anyone had experience hooking up the MSD 6AL2? the non PC programmable one.... i bought this for my set up. and i've also read. with this box. you can run without ICM. it directly runs off the distributor. this has built in rev limit. and built in 2-step.


I am using the 6al digital plus box no icm or anything just box hooked to coil and Hall effect on distributor. It has 2step timing retard and rev limiter built in. Works great for me.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> no knock box on my setup. just ICM and MSD.
> you guys can look at my build thread in my sig. The latest MSD setup is later in the thread, i changed the 6a to 6al ignition box, but other than that everything is the same.


sorry about that, i must have mixed up your build with someone elses


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## Gh0sTly (Feb 18, 2012)

Lowenough said:


> I am using the 6al digital plus box no icm or anything just box hooked to coil and Hall effect on distributor. It has 2step timing retard and rev limiter built in. Works great for me.


Got a wiring diagram for the 6AL Digital Plus? That'd be nice for me, considering I want to go with the least wiring possible. I do want the knock box, but I really would like to eliminate the whole stock ECU. For reference, I have a OBD2 ABA, if that makes a difference. I assume I could use the stock magnetic pickup on the ABA connected to the 6AL/6AL Digital Plus.


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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

Gh0sTly said:


> Got a wiring diagram for the 6AL Digital Plus? That'd be nice for me, considering I want to go with the least wiring possible. I do want the knock box, but I really would like to eliminate the whole stock ECU. For reference, I have a OBD2 ABA, if that makes a difference. I assume I could use the stock magnetic pickup on the ABA connected to the 6AL/6AL Digital Plus.


http://www.msdignition.com/uploadedFiles/MSDIgnitioncom/Support/WDTN_pn9615.pdf I believe page 56 the diagram at the end is the one I used. I hooked the white wire to the signal on hall sender if I remember right. And mines set on 2 for cylinder for retard setup.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

rysskii3 said:


> read the MSD instructions for that box. There will be a description of what each wire does. One you know that, you can kind of use the diagram above to make it work.


reason i really ask this. is i was told that the stock timing in this MSD box is advanced 25 degrees. and a guy told me he couldn't get his engine running good till about 10 degrees advanced. and if mine isn't programmable. what do i do. i have a great idea of getting the wires hooked up. it's pretty straight forward really. but thank you all! :thumbup:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> reason i really ask this. is i was told that the stock timing in this MSD box is advanced 25 degrees. and a guy told me he couldn't get his engine running good till about 10 degrees advanced. and if mine isn't programmable. what do i do. i have a great idea of getting the wires hooked up. it's pretty straight forward really. but thank you all! :thumbup:


That is what the start retard MSD box is for. I couldn't get my car started without it also. Once your car is running above certain RPM, the start retard box shuts off and your timing goes back to what MSD is set to. So, what I'm trying to say is that you just need the start retard box to get that car started.


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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> That is what the start retard MSD box is for. I couldn't get my car started without it also. Once your car is running above certain RPM, the start retard box shuts off and your timing goes back to what MSD is set to. So, what I'm trying to say is that you just need the start retard box to get that car started.


 what are you using for a tach? Factory? I tried to hook up a factory tach but didn't look into it too much I just had a auto meter tach I threw I. But I want to do a factory cluster soon.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Lowenough said:


> what are you using for a tach? Factory? I tried to hook up a factory tach but didn't look into it too much I just had a auto meter tach I threw I. But I want to do a factory cluster soon.


MSD tach adapter with factory gauges


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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> MSD tach adapter with factory gauges


8920? Or 8910?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Lowenough said:


> 8920? Or 8910?


dont remember. call and ask them


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

will the start retard box hook to any MSD box? is there a prt number i can get ? so i can look it up?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> will the start retard box hook to any MSD box? is there a prt number i can get ? so i can look it up?


It should, unless the ignition box already has one built in. i dont remember the part number. its the only one msd has, so you cant miss it. read the pdf file both for start/retard and the ignition box you already have to figure out if they will work together.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Got my setup started for the first time last night! Now I just need to tie up all the loose ends and take them for a spin.

What did you guys do with the gas tank return line? Can I just cap it at the tank?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Got my setup started for the first time last night! Now I just need to tie up all the loose ends and take them for a spin.
> 
> What did you guys do with the gas tank return line? Can I just cap it at the tank?


i use mine for venting excess pressure out of the tank. For some reason the vented cap wasnt doing the job.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> i use mine for venting excess pressure out of the tank. For some reason the vented cap wasnt doing the job.


So do you just vent it under the car?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> So do you just vent it under the car?


yes. look in my build thread. you will see what i did with it


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

mine is getting there. :thumb up:


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

i realized i had my distributor advanced too much. retarded it some. and fired right up. here is a video of it idling. :thumb up:
after all i don't need a start retard box.

watch it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olDjZ3gOkqs


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> i realized i had my distributor advanced too much. retarded it some. and fired right up. here is a video of it idling. :thumb up:
> after all i don't need a start retard box.
> 
> watch it.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olDjZ3gOkqs


That actually sounds very bad. It starts now because its warmer. Wait till winter hits, you will want the start/retard box. Also, you will want to use thicker oil with carbs, 20w-50.
Here is what it should sound like..


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

its open header. its got about the biggest cam. it's 15:1. and I'm running 110. its not going to sound stock....

and if I'm driving this car during the winter i have issues. haha. one gallon of gas cost me 8.25$


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

I think the 17.5 pilot jet may have been a little to big, at least for my stock aba setup. While idling i get 'backfires' out of the front of the carbs :laugh: i think its safe to say Im running a little rich. Because of this I hooked up my A/F guage and the needle just lays on 8...so either its not working or Im running really really rich.

On a side note, rysskii3, I now understand why you relocated the choke to the passengers side. I ran it from to the drivers side...borderline useless. I ended up immediately removing it and going passenger side as well.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> I think the 17.5 pilot jet may have been a little to big, at least for my stock aba setup. While idling i get 'backfires' out of the front of the carbs :laugh: i think its safe to say Im running a little rich. Because of this I hooked up my A/F guage and the needle just lays on 8...so either its not working or Im running really really rich.
> 
> On a side note, rysskii3, I now understand why you relocated the choke to the passengers side. I ran it from to the drivers side...borderline useless. I ended up immediately removing it and going passenger side as well.


Im pretty sure that carbs backfire due to lean condition. mine does this under full choke after about a minute of running the car. as soon as i slightly decrease the choke (push it in) the car goes richer and backfiring stops. Maybe you should look into a new AFR gauge or your o2 can be bad so its giving you false reading. Also, don't forget to calibrate it after it has been disconnected from the power source. 
Did you have the choke cable under the steering wheel, the little cutout for oem choke? I found that the choke didnt work right in that location due to the line being too long and one too many bends.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> its open header. its got about the biggest cam. it's 15:1. and I'm running 110. its not going to sound stock....
> 
> and if I'm driving this car during the winter i have issues. haha. one gallon of gas cost me 8.25$



I dont mean it should sound stock, but it just doesnt sound right. call who ever makes your cam and ask them if the cam will be good for carbs. 
Edit, just saw your other video in the build thread. That sounds much better, whatever you did is working. Not the exhaust part, but the engine seems to be running smoother.


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

rysskii3 said:


> I dont mean it should sound stock, but it just doesnt sound right. call who ever makes your cam and ask them if the cam will be good for carbs.
> Edit, just saw your other video in the build thread. That sounds much better, whatever you did is working. Not the exhaust part, but the engine seems to be running smoother.


hooked the pump up... changed the way it ran completely. :thumbup:


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> Im pretty sure that carbs backfire due to lean condition. mine does this under full choke after about a minute of running the car. as soon as i slightly decrease the choke (push it in) the car goes richer and backfiring stops. Maybe you should look into a new AFR gauge or your o2 can be bad so its giving you false reading. Also, don't forget to calibrate it after it has been disconnected from the power source.
> Did you have the choke cable under the steering wheel, the little cutout for oem choke? I found that the choke didnt work right in that location due to the line being too long and one too many bends.


Oh really? Maybe Im running lean then? The AFR gauge and o2 sensor are pretty much brand new so I hope i don't need a new one lol ill have to re calibrate and see. I had it hooked up and working but disconnected it while installing the carbs, so hopefully that's it.

And yea I tried the stock location and it didnt work at all. Like you said too many bends. Maybe if the choke slid the to the drives side it would work but thats no the case.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Oh really? Maybe Im running lean then? The AFR gauge and o2 sensor are pretty much brand new so I hope i don't need a new one lol ill have to re calibrate and see. I had it hooked up and working but disconnected it while installing the carbs, so hopefully that's it.
> 
> And yea I tried the stock location and it didnt work at all. Like you said too many bends. Maybe if the choke slid the to the drives side it would work but thats no the case.


http://www.badasscars.com/index.cfm...duct_id=95/category_id=13/mode=prod/prd95.htm


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## 86jettadude (May 17, 2007)

Sorry to slightly hijack the thread but, I finally got my rabbit project buttoned up and I'm looking for alittle advice. I'm running dual 45mm dhla dellortos on a built mkii (rd) 8v block with the electronics from the mkii (knock box setup). I've seen different opinions as to wether to run the vaccume line from the knock box to the manifold and also wether the idle switch should be used (saying by not using it the idle will be unstable). So what's the end all be all on this? I've already fired my car and adjusted timing and seems to idle fairly decent but I haven't drove it to see if the timing advances/retards correctly.


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## jay22 (Sep 6, 2010)

Dumb question. I recently rebuilt my bottom end(1.8 16v PL). I fixed a few other things on it while it was out. One of them was switching the stock distributor for a Saab vacuum advance distributor. It's different from the stock one with a different mount. How do you guys have it set? Pics would be appreciated


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## 86Franklin (Apr 5, 2008)

jay22 said:


> Dumb question. I recently rebuilt my bottom end(1.8 16v PL). I fixed a few other things on it while it was out. One of them was switching the stock distributor for a Saab vacuum advance distributor. It's different from the stock one with a different mount. How do you guys have it set? Pics would be appreciated


There are pictures earlier in this thread.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Alright newby here. Currently i have MK2 with 8v . I have been reading the crap out of this thread, so please bare with me.

I bought a complete ABA 2.0 8v (no ecu with motor). I plan on using the R1 carbs. So im looking into the all the parts i will need. So please correct me or tell me i'am a idiot. 
1.carbs
2.FPR (with stock in-tank fuel pump?)
3. Different jets (what size recommended?)
4. Refers back 2^, Carter fuel pump( is this used inline with stock intank pump?)
5. manifold ( not worried i'am a welder)
6. MSD 6AL. ( can this be use with stock coil? or do i need the blaster pack as well)

And most import question. Any of this crap yall have lying around not in use? i will buy lol, just pm me


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Alright newby here. Currently i have MK2 with 8v . I have been reading the crap out of this thread, so please bare with me.
> 
> I bought a complete ABA 2.0 8v (no ecu with motor). I plan on using the R1 carbs. So im looking into the all the parts i will need. So please correct me or tell me i'am a idiot.
> 1.carbs
> ...


check my build thread (link in sig) to see pictures.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> check my build thread (link in sig) to see pictures.


Thank you sir....I will have a build thread soon


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Can I use the Digital MSD 6AL? or does it have to been the earlier model?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Can I use the Digital MSD 6AL? or does it have to been the earlier model?


 It doesn't matter.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Ok, so I finally tied up the loose ends last night. Connected the brake booster and got the throttle cable attached. The carbs were way out of sync so got them pretty close which stopped the coughing. 

But of course now I have new problems. Everything idles nice, revs nice....but under load, not so nice. I tried to take it for a test drive, had no problem crawling out of my driveway, but once i tried to accelerate there was no power. I couldn't break 2k rpm, the engine was bogging down. Almost as if the engine was cold but it was warmed up. My guess is that it's a mixture problem. I'm still trying to figure out why my a/f gauge isn't working so I'm not positive if this is the problem or not. What do you guys think?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Ok, so I finally tied up the loose ends last night. Connected the brake booster and got the throttle cable attached. The carbs were way out of sync so got them pretty close which stopped the coughing.
> 
> But of course now I have new problems. Everything idles nice, revs nice....but under load, not so nice. I tried to take it for a test drive, had no problem crawling out of my driveway, but once i tried to accelerate there was no power. I couldn't break 2k rpm, the engine was bogging down. Almost as if the engine was cold but it was warmed up. My guess is that it's a mixture problem. I'm still trying to figure out why my a/f gauge isn't working so I'm not positive if this is the problem or not. What do you guys think?


How's your timing, both ignition and engine? You definitely need an afr gauge. get this one: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
so far it has been working very well for me


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

rysskii3 said:


> How's your timing, both ignition and engine? You definitely need an afr gauge. get this one: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
> so far it has been working very well for me


This. With that kind of compression and cam you do have an adjustable cam gear, right? You should talk to the cam manufacturer and get their recommendation on advance/retard of the cam timing as well as a baseline ignition timing.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> How's your timing, both ignition and engine? You definitely need an afr gauge. get this one: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php
> so far it has been working very well for me


I have the LC-2 from innovate Im just having some trouble with it. I installed it in the fall in anticipation of the carb project and it worked fine. But during the transition to carbs something must have happened because now its not working, the gauge turns on and sweeps, then just drops to 8. The LC-2 isn't snowing any error codes, so I tried re calibrating it. Still nothing. So now i think its the gauge itself, Ill go through the wiring this week and see if anything is loose or disconnected.

As far as timing, im stock. ABA engine using the stock ecu to run the ignition and the engine timing hasn't been touched since I replaced the belt a little over a year ago. I know this isnt the ideal way to run it, but im not tracking it or anything, just trying to get it driveable until i can afford something better for the ignition.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> I have the LC-2 from innovate Im just having some trouble with it. I installed it in the fall in anticipation of the carb project and it worked fine. But during the transition to carbs something must have happened because now its not working, the gauge turns on and sweeps, then just drops to 8. The LC-2 isn't snowing any error codes, so I tried re calibrating it. Still nothing. So now i think its the gauge itself, Ill go through the wiring this week and see if anything is loose or disconnected.
> 
> As far as timing, im stock. ABA engine using the stock ecu to run the ignition and the engine timing hasn't been touched since I replaced the belt a little over a year ago. I know this isnt the ideal way to run it, but im not tracking it or anything, just trying to get it driveable until i can afford something better for the ignition.


Did you say that you are still using the stock ecu?


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> Did you say that you are still using the stock ecu?


Temporarily, yes


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Temporarily, yes


 That could be one of your problems.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Is 1/4 inch to thin for the intake flange. I have some laying around but nothing thicker. Aluminum by the way


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Is 1/4 inch to thin for the intake flange. I have some laying around but nothing thicker. Aluminum by the way


There is a company that will make you a flange, I just can't remember who they are. It was around $60 last time I looked.


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## Gh0sTly (Feb 18, 2012)

I'm gonna be interested in getting that company's info as well. I've gotta get a intake made for my ABA that I'm carbing.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> There is a company that will make you a flange, I just can't remember who they are. It was around $60 last time I looked.


That would be good I may do that if anyone has that info. Probably still going to fab one up this weekend out of that 1/4" material i have just to see wear i need to mount my alt.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

how about this one?
http://danstengineering.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=59_78&product_id=165
or 
http://www.boggbros.co.uk/contact.html


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Well ball sacks. Mine is the 8v. Oh well. I'll just have to get my fab on


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Got my gauge working again and now im not sure what to think. Seems like its idling lean but gets rich at higher rpms? Should I go a size larger in pilot get and a size smaller in main jet? Or do you guys still think this is a timing issue? Here is a video i took of it, so you know what i mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22adEtpMNtE


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## vw88 (Jul 29, 2011)

vwscotty said:


> Got my gauge working again and now im not sure what to think. Seems like its idling lean but gets rich at higher rpms? Should I go a size larger in pilot get and a size smaller in main jet? Or do you guys still think this is a timing issue? Here is a video i took of it, so you know what i mean.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22adEtpMNtE


thats so weird.... when i got mine running. with fuel pump hooked up. i rev the **** out of mine. do you have your pump hooked up?


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

vw88 said:


> thats so weird.... when i got mine running. with fuel pump hooked up. i rev the **** out of mine. do you have your pump hooked up?


Yes i have the in tank pump as well as the fuel pump for the carbs. I have no problem reving it when its out of gear. In the video I was just trying to hold the rpms steady for the a/f reading


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vw88 said:


> thats so weird.... when i got mine running. with fuel pump hooked up. i rev the **** out of mine. do you have your pump hooked up?


it does seem to run lean. check the choke and let it warm up for a while. the idle should be around 14.5 and at wot in 4th your afr should be in the low 12s


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Any one have a link for new jets for the R1 carbs. Our should I drill?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Any one have a link for new jets for the R1 carbs. Our should I drill?


Google rus jets


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Well...Im an idiot :laugh: my lean idle was caused by a large vacuum leak on my brake booster line. As soon as I fixed the leak the idle sounded much better and my a/f at idle was right around 15.

When I rev and hold the engine anywhere over 2k rpm a/f gauge is showing anywhere from 9-11 which is pretty rich and might be why it still wont drive. Im going to try a smaller main jet and see if that helps at all.

Also, in my search for solutions I came across this tuning guide for cv carbs. Seems like a pretty good source of information for dialing in the carbs.

http://www.factorypro.com/tech/tech_tuning_procedures/tuning_carbtune,CV,lower_rpm_engines.html


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

vwscotty said:


> Well...Im an idiot :laugh: my lean idle was caused by a large vacuum leak on my brake booster line. As soon as I fixed the leak the idle sounded much better and my a/f at idle was right around 15.
> 
> When I rev and hold the engine anywhere over 2k rpm a/f gauge is showing anywhere from 9-11 which is pretty rich and might be why it still wont drive. Im going to try a smaller main jet and see if that helps at all.
> 
> ...


What size jets did you run? I bought 165


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Italian308 said:


> What size jets did you run? I bought 165


I have 180 in now and I just ordered 170, hopefully that will do the trick


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Carbs came in. Jets will be here Monday, aquired a MSD 6al, MSD tach adapter, MSD blaster 2. Next week i be able to buy my fuel pump and FPR and hoses. Once i get a manifold welded up and good weekend without wife and kids "White Trash" should be alive and running with fresh aba 2.0 

Has anyone ever tried running the intake up and over the valve cover and mounting the carbs pointing back to the rain tray with an ABA 2.0 8v? just going for a different approach. or would that be to long of a run for the air/ fuel mixture to travel?


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

im thinking of doing something like this with R1 carbs


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> im thinking of doing something like this with R1 carbs


So you are trying to get the hot air from exhaust into the carbs?


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Italian308 said:


> im thinking of doing something like this with R1 carbs


I don't see why it wouldn't work but from a performance standpoint I cant see why you would choose this


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> I don't see why it wouldn't work but from a performance standpoint I cant see why you would choose this


Exactly


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Well I didn't think about the heat.....just popped into my head. Figured I wouldn't have to relocate the alternator. I know the 1.8 8v have to mount that way. Is it that dramatic on performance?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Well I didn't think about the heat.....just popped into my head. Figured I wouldn't have to relocate the alternator. I know the 1.8 8v have to mount that way. Is it that dramatic on performance?


how much performance do you get out of an 8v. at that point, it shouldnt matter because you arent even making much power.
i didnt relocate my alternator. i simply got a longer upper bracket and a shorter belt, then moved the alternator as far down as i could.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Referring to the performance of the carbs pulling in hot air at the back. Does it affect the way the carbs run? I'm not building a race car. Just something to take to cars and coffee every Sat. If it is going to run like **** then I won't do it. Going to make both manifolds just to see.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Referring to the performance of the carbs pulling in hot air at the back. Does it affect the way the carbs run? I'm not building a race car. Just something to take to cars and coffee every Sat. If it is going to run like **** then I won't do it. Going to make both manifolds just to see.


it should run but not as good as if it had carbs in the front. the colder the air, the denser it is, more fuel is needed=more power. sucking air from the exhaust side will make it less dense. you can try, but its pretty pointless.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Alright that makes sense now.


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## Ea5ygti (Feb 7, 2013)

*Sorry guys off the object ... It about fuel systems*

I was planning do that project, first I need buy r1 carbs ( which one? ) , because I look at ebay try buy right one ....some have fuel injector or none if I wrong, how it works and what should I do? 
I was thinking if with fuel injector then I need use fuel rail harness 
Ofc carbs don't run ecu or mapping


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## Ea5ygti (Feb 7, 2013)

*Got it now*

Wanna share my knowledge 
Those are 2002 and up 








Those are 98 or 99 to 2001








Got those image from google :laugh:


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

I thought the ? On the photo above was the fuel in port. Now I'm confused :what:


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

The carbs needed are 99-01 Yamaha R1. 2002 and above are itbs.
The question mark is the fuel inlet. The 2 lines marked fuel are chocke breathers. Leave them open to air. I would cut the host on both sides about 3-5 inches below the t connector.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> The carbs needed are 99-01 Yamaha R1. 2002 and above are itbs.
> The question mark is the fuel inlet. The 2 lines marked fuel are chocke breathers. Leave them open to air. I would cut the host on both sides about 3-5 inches below the t connector.


x2 that picture is not correct

the choke breathers on the bike go to the air box but for our applications just vent to air


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Italian308 said:


> im thinking of doing something like this with R1 carbs


Another point not mentioned, but good luck getting a setup like that to idle well. With runners that long and with that turn in them, at idle the motor isnt flowing enough air to keep the fuel suspended well and you will likely have atomization issues. that was what I experienced when I had long runners on my carb setup. switching just the manifold to a short runner solved a lot of running issues


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

yeayeayea said:


> Another point not mentioned, but good luck getting a setup like that to idle well. With runners that long and with that turn in them, at idle the motor isnt flowing enough air to keep the fuel suspended well and you will likely have atomization issues. that was what I experienced when I had long runners on my carb setup. switching just the manifold to a short runner solved a lot of running issues


Yeah I'm going short runners. Having a flange made for me. I'll post the finished manifold here in a couple weeks. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Seems like no matter what size main jet I use my a/f gauge shows rich under any throttle. Im thinking now that its the ignition timing...should have just done that from the start :facepalm:


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Ignition time was the problem. Got everything from the 84 GTI ignition hooked up and the thing runs 10x better and now actually drives. Still some fine tuning to do, but Im just glad I figured out the problem. :beer:

Moral of the story: If your going to do something, do it right the first time.


Also, never listen to anyone that says you can run carbs on the stock ecu :laugh:


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

rysskii3 said:


> That actually sounds very bad. It starts now because its warmer. Wait till winter hits, you will want the start/retard box. Also, you will want to use thicker oil with carbs, 20w-50.


maybe this is a dumb question, but why would the carbs necessitate thicker oil?


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## captreils (Apr 23, 2002)

I'm using 10w30. Actually I just switched to Mobil 1 at my last oil change. No problems yet. Been driving my car almost every day since October.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> maybe this is a dumb question, but why would the carbs necessitate thicker oil?


Carbs are pushing more fuel into the engine, if the block is just refubrished, then the piston rings should seal well, otherwise the fuel will dilute the oil and the car will start smoking like a chimney. This happened to me when I started with the carb project. Thicker oil will require much more to be diluted than thiner. Plus, Valvoline vr1 20w-50 is pretty cheap and available at local auto parts stores.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Fuel line question. Is one of these a return?









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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Yup
One is the return. You can figure out which by unscrewing the fuel pump access plate in the trunk/hatch. If you are using a low pressure pump, then you wont need a return line.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Just a few pics of my intake manifold I made tonight.









Nothing special. But it will get new running and I will make a real nice one

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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Motor is in! Question how did everyone hook up their fuel pump? I'm thinking about running my 3/8 line directly to the tank then run it into my carter under the hood. 

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Motor is in! Question how did everyone hook up their fuel pump? I'm thinking about running my 3/8 line directly to the tank then run it into my carter under the hood.
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


Carter is a push, not pull style pump. You should mount it near the tank, then run a new 3/8 fuel line to an fpr under the hood, and then fpr to carbs. Don't forget to use a fuel filter pre Carter pump, and if you want, you can get another one right before the carbs.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Thank you. I was told they are better at pulling. I guess it's time to relocate then. 

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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

Since I am in a whoreing mood. Here's my set up

R1 carbs mains drilled to 2.0mm
Around 11:1comp via shaved head
268cams hd springs
Ported &polished
Racecraft manifold
K26 turbo with 10lbs of boost
Tial 38mm wastegate with screamer pipe
2.5 exhaust custom all the way back with a quite muffler
Custom intake and charging pipe and plenum


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Very nice lowenough.....Got a video? I would love to hear that run

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

I do but I will have to upload them from my computer later iPhone can't.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Italian308 said:


> Very nice lowenough.....Got a video? I would love to hear that run
> 
> Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk


:thumbup:


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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

Fuel pump died the other day and I haven't fixed it yet but this the only video I have. 3rd gear just crusing then foot to floor and wheel spin. It's hard to video with a phone and drive.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Zxx4kHqULcM


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Lowenough said:


> Fuel pump died the other day and I haven't fixed it yet but this the only video I have. 3rd gear just crusing then foot to floor and wheel spin. It's hard to video with a phone and drive.
> 
> http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=Zxx4kHqULcM


Wow. I'm impressed.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Before I get bashed with people telling me to research...I have...my head hurts now. I just want to do this right without frying something

I have what's seems to be the never ending wiring question. I found this diagram. Will this work with what I have: aba 2.0 8v msd 6a, msd tach adapter 8920, msd blaster 2 coil, icm from 86 jetta 8v cis. I have dizzy (pic include)with vacuum and one without (in motor now). Which one it's better?

















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## Lowenough (Dec 6, 2010)

Don't know if I told specifically what I had but I am pumped it runs this good. 81 rabbit pickup it has a 2l 9a shaved head so 11:1 compression, 268cams, hd valve springs, ported head, 2.5 exhaust,k26 turbo, tial 38mm wastegate, 15psi , msd 6al digital igniton, msd blaster coil, r1 bike carbs, jets drilled to 1.9mm. http://youtu.be/7FgJQfDZ0Qs


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Well my set up is complete. but i can get any spark and fuel pump is not coming on. Not sure whats going on.


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## youpokedthebear (Oct 24, 2009)

I know this isn't a FS thread, but I have some stuff that I was going to use and went Webers instead.

Aluminum ABA flange $75 shipped
MSD Digital 6AL $200 shipped
4x brand new K&N filters for R1 carbs. $75 shipped


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Italian308 said:


> Well my set up is complete. but i can get any spark and fuel pump is not coming on. Not sure whats going on.


time for some fun problem solving lol use a multimeter and check everything along the way


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Yeah whoever had this car before me must have liked to splice wires just for fun.........not cool. Gonna be months before this thing runs. The starter works, but no spark, radio, lights, fuel pump, and for some reason every wire I have tested is a constant 12v. I have only found one wire that will switch from 12.2v to 10.2 when ignition is turned off. 

But then again I'm not good with wires myself. I could be doing it wrong. 

I'm running Msd 6a model6200 and tach adapter 8910. Using this diagram


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Yeah whoever had this car before me must have liked to splice wires just for fun.........not cool. Gonna be months before this thing runs. The starter works, but no spark, radio, lights, fuel pump, and for some reason every wire I have tested is a constant 12v. I have only found one wire that will switch from 12.2v to 10.2 when ignition is turned off.
> 
> But then again I'm not good with wires myself. I could be doing it wrong.
> 
> I'm running Msd 6a model6200 and tach adapter 8910. Using this diagram


Thsts the one I went by also. Wiring was a bit difficult. I had lots of issues also. I ended up buying a roll of whatever original gauge wires were and made new harness myself.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Did you wire in the icu as well?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Did you wire in the icu as well?


if we are talking about ICM, then yes.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

shouldn't take you months to fix it, its probably one bad/missed/incorrect connection somewhere. Hardest part is finding it

dumb question but if you have constant 12v to everything, did you check the switched 12v?


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Well there are two wire on the back of the ignition that have been spliced into. One was the constant and the other the switched. But after testing them last night they were both constant. I'm going trace down those two wires and see if he crossed them somewhere else. 

Can you show me how yours is wired up with the icm.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

I have a running 88 jetta that I have been going by that's all original. That's how I know it's supposed to be the switched on my 86. 

When I get home I'm going to pull evening out and start over.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Well there are two wire on the back of the ignition that have been spliced into. One was the constant and the other the switched. But after testing them last night they were both constant. I'm going trace down those two wires and see if he crossed them somewhere else.
> 
> Can you show me how yours is wired up with the icm.


look in my sig for the wiring diagram.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Ok guys im having a strange problem. When Im taking off from a stop, once the clutch is fully engaged (or disengaged? My foot is no longer on the pedal lol) the car begins to lurch forward repeatedly. If I shift to second the lurching goes away. AF gauge looks good. Idles a little lean, around 16 and during acceleration it is about 12. So I figured it its not fuel its spark. Pulled the plugs, they look ok. Started playing around with the timing, turning in a few degrees and taking a test drive around the block. Some spots made it worse and some made it better, but nothing made it go away. Does anyone have a clue what this could be?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Ok guys im having a strange problem. When Im taking off from a stop, once the clutch is fully engaged (or disengaged? My foot is no longer on the pedal lol) the car begins to lurch forward repeatedly. If I shift to second the lurching goes away. AF gauge looks good. Idles a little lean, around 16 and during acceleration it is about 12. So I figured it its not fuel its spark. Pulled the plugs, they look ok. Started playing around with the timing, turning in a few degrees and taking a test drive around the block. Some spots made it worse and some made it better, but nothing made it go away. Does anyone have a clue what this could be?


Sounds more like it's clutch or transmission related. Try taking off at higher rpm in first and disengaged the clutch faster.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

youpokedthebear said:


> I know this isn't a FS thread, but I have some stuff that I was going to use and went Webers instead.
> 
> Aluminum ABA flange $75 shipped
> MSD Digital 6AL $200 shipped
> 4x brand new K&N filters for R1 carbs. $75 shipped


Speaking of (and clean out your PM in box!)....your flange was still in with my stuff when I picked it up from Howie's about 2 weeks ago. LMK where to send it so you get it back. :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Well there are two wire on the back of the ignition that have been spliced into. One was the constant and the other the switched. But after testing them last night they were both constant. I'm going trace down those two wires and see if he crossed them somewhere else.
> 
> Can you show me how yours is wired up with the icm.


For the $12 or so a new ignition switch costs and how often they go bad I would probably replace it in the process. Then it's making sure you have the cranking power signal to the ICM, which gets missed fairly often. Sucks when a PO has hacked things. A buddy has ABA mk2 that is so boogered its unreal. Amazing it didn't catch fire on the way home, it looks liek if the PO didn't know what the wire did he grounded it. :facepalm:


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Yeah I found a 12v switch wire finally. I turn the key on and smoke came from under the dash behind fuse panel. I just turned it off and disconnected the battery and walked away. Been sitting for two weeks.....not sure what to do now. I think I'm gonna buy a new panel and pay someone to fix it....either that or sell it as is. My daily 88 ifs starting to need work. I'm going to have to focus on it for awhile.....


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I'm still thinking about starting from scratch with a street rod harness from Painless for updated fuses (mine is an '82) and just new wiring all around for the dash and signals. Custom gauge console, etc. Maybe some day...


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Well I had to leave for Mobile, Al this morning. While I was waiting for my co worker to show up. I pulled the fuse panel out to look at the connections in the back and this was behind it









It was hooked up to the old cruise control module. I disconnected 10ft of cable that only had to go 2ft and found were two of the wires shorted out. Hopefully this is what my problem was. I didn't get to test though, had to get on the road for work.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

Turns out my problem was caused my my own stupidity. I didn't secure my throttle cable properly. That in combination with worn motor mounts caused my lurching problem. Another example how cutting corners bites you in the ass lol


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

vwscotty said:


> Turns out my problem was caused my my own stupidity. I didn't secure my throttle cable properly. That in combination with worn motor mounts caused my lurching problem. Another example how cutting corners bites you in the ass lol


Yep. That's why the carb swap ended up being 3 Times more than it could have been on the cheap.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Mine is taking years because I'm too anal about things and have too many projects.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

So now I have no power to the fuse panel....fml!


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## mxvw54 (Jun 10, 2009)

Ok I read through this thread and found myself overwhelmed with options and different ways of going about this. I'm putting a 2.0 16v in my rabbit. What is the simplest and most reliable way? As far as stock ignition vs Saab or others and carter pump vs bike pump. Just looking to consolidate known good info. I've got the motor and carbs already. What else are the must haves besides the manifold itself.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

mxvw54 said:


> Ok I read through this thread and found myself overwhelmed with options and different ways of going about this. I'm putting a 2.0 16v in my rabbit. What is the simplest and most reliable way? As far as stock ignition vs Saab or others and carter pump vs bike pump. Just looking to consolidate known good info. I've got the motor and carbs already. What else are the must haves besides the manifold itself.


check out my thread. i think i went the simplest way, but with great attention to details and quality parts


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## mxvw54 (Jun 10, 2009)

Is anyone still selling the intake plates to weld the runners to?


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

How did everyone wire their pumps up......did you use the original wire plug or run new wires?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

mxvw54 said:


> Is anyone still selling the intake plates to weld the runners to?


ABA or 16V?


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## mxvw54 (Jun 10, 2009)

16v

Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> How did everyone wire their pumps up......did you use the original wire plug or run new wires?


Look at the pictures in my build thread.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

rysskii3 said:


> Look at the pictures in my build thread.


From the pics. I see two wires coming from harness. Mine has 4...it was cis-e, if that matters. I have my neg grounded to frame. And red I haven't terminated until I get my fuse panel issue figures out. Ordered some parts today for my vac advance dizzy to fit my block. Plus some other goodies. 13x8 wheels and coils.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> From the pics. I see two wires coming from harness. Mine has 4...it was cis-e, if that matters. I have my neg grounded to frame. And red I haven't terminated until I get my fuse panel issue figures out. Ordered some parts today for my vac advance dizzy to fit my block. Plus some other goodies. 13x8 wheels and coils.


Mine was motronic, so there are 4 wires also. Look at the wiring diagrams to see what each wire does. There are 2 red and 2 Brown. If I recall correctly, the 2 red are power and 2 brown are grounds. I think I combined the 2 red into 1 and ran it to pump power. While the 2 brown were combined and grounded directly to the body. Then I used a separate wire to ground the pump to the body also. I can't really tell because I have a it covered by heat shrink wrap.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

10-4 I'll take a look in the morning. Thanks


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> 10-4 I'll take a look in the morning. Thanks


Just edited my previous post...


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Sweet thanks again


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

Italian308 said:


> Sweet thanks again


Np. Just use a voltmeter to check checking wires. I think I had to change the fuel pump relay also. Its the back one on the bottom. It may be a horn relay. Not sure. Its been a while since I did it.


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

Someone had any experience with this FPR? i will buy for my project

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350698324792

Thanks for your comments


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> Someone had any experience with this FPR? i will buy for my project
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/350698324792
> 
> Thanks for your comments


I wouldn't put that ebay chinese stuff anywhere near something as important as my fuel system. I'm not even a fan of the Mr. Gasket pumps and fprs some people use.


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

YJSAABMAN said:


> I wouldn't put that ebay chinese stuff anywhere near something as important as my fuel system. I'm not even a fan of the Mr. Gasket pumps and fprs some people use.


Thanks dude, whats your recommendation to replace this item?


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

zero_red9 said:


> Someone had any experience with this FPR? i will buy for my project
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/350698324792
> 
> Thanks for your comments


I bought an eBay FPR (another one) for my turbo 16V project. When it came in, it looked so crappy that I ended up tossing it and going with an Aeromotive. I went from a $20 FPR to a $150 one. The eBay FPR didn't have an o-ring (or any other seal) between the adjustment screw and the unit. Also, the diaphragm doubled as the seal between the two halves of the unit and looked to be of poor quality. Again, different unit, different time, but the risk of it leaking all over your engine bay, or varying the fuel pressure unexpectedly was just not worth it. It's probably less critical for a carb setup, but for EFI, especially at boost, a drop in fuel pressure could lean out the engine and destroy it.

That being said, you might want to try it (like I did). I have lots of ebay stuff (even home depot) in my engine bay. But I try to put my money where it matters.

-Alex


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

20v_boost said:


> I bought an eBay FPR (another one) for my turbo 16V project. When it came in, it looked so crappy that I ended up tossing it and going with an Aeromotive. I went from a $20 FPR to a $150 one. The eBay FPR didn't have an o-ring (or any other seal) between the adjustment screw and the unit. Also, the diaphragm doubled as the seal between the two halves of the unit and looked to be of poor quality. Again, different unit, different time, but the risk of it leaking all over your engine bay, or varying the fuel pressure unexpectedly was just not worth it. It's probably less critical for a carb setup, but for EFI, especially at boost, a drop in fuel pressure could lean out the engine and destroy it.
> 
> That being said, you might want to try it (like I did). I have lots of ebay stuff (even home depot) in my engine bay. But I try to put my money where it matters.
> 
> -Alex


Hi Dude,

I really appreciate your comments, i had the same idea about the critical that could be this in an carburetor set up, the fuel pump will have a pressure only of 4-6psi. maybe can works or don't 

i'll search for a holley regulator or other like that type.

Regards


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> Hi Dude,
> 
> I really appreciate your comments, i had the same idea about the critical that could be this in an carburetor set up, the fuel pump will have a pressure only of 4-6psi. maybe can works or don't
> 
> ...


Use only good stuff on your build. If you use cheap stuff now, you will pay for it later.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> Hi Dude,
> 
> I really appreciate your comments, i had the same idea about the critical that could be this in an carburetor set up, the fuel pump will have a pressure only of 4-6psi. maybe can works or don't
> 
> ...


I have a $150 Aeromotive regulator on my setup, also. There's one for sale in the mk3 classifieds right now, but I'm not sure which model and how low a pressure it will go to. worth checking out for the price, though.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...stable-Fuel-Pressure-Regulator-100-shipped-OR


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## youpokedthebear (Oct 24, 2009)

That's a high pressure model. You are better off picking up a Carter pump and Holley FPR used for around the same price.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

youpokedthebear said:


> That's a high pressure model. You are better off picking up a Carter pump and Holley FPR used for around the same price.


Exactly. Why get anything else when this combination has been tested by many. It works, so don't even bother with other stuff.


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## kyndig (Jul 26, 2004)

Here's a few pictures of my setup. I got it started last week and ran it for the first time on Wednesday. There's still some bugs to be worked out, but it's definitely moving forward!





I used a regular 16V manifold and chopped it right down to the plate, then had my own runners welded up. It also allowed me to use the stock mounting pieces for the motorcycle. I liked this way because it lets me use the stock vacuum fitting at the base of the manifold, to run my vacuum advance and my brake booster.

It's getting closer!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

My carbs and manifold...










Where they need to be...










I need to clean up my garage. Maybe once the driveway is cleaned up....


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

I had a problem, I bought the wrong main jets, how can I get the real model? I only see in the carbs 84AA1D and no more


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> I had a problem, I bought the wrong main jets, how can I get the real model? I only see in the carbs 84AA1D and no more


search the thread. there is a link to the site...


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

rysskii3 said:


> search the thread. there is a link to the site...


Thanks dude, i found the thread and now i order the correct main jets...


Now i have a big concern about the manifold exhaust,, I have my headers (clips) until catback. For the 2.0 16v i have headers (screws) and stop before the catalytic.... what can I use here? I saw a lot of post and everybody talks about the carbs,distributors etc but no one mentioned about the headers and catback.. adding im doing this in a rabbit cabriolet 84

Some one have any recommendations? 
Thanks


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

For the records and future noobs (like me), there are 3 solutions for header exhaust swap 16V Mk1.

1.- custom made (made your own headers and downpipe to joint in to your existent catback
2.-headers from siroco (very dificult to found
3.-spend 500dlls (in my case with shipping) with headers from Raceland and catback from Techtonicstuning


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> For the records and future noobs (like me), there are 3 solutions for header exhaust swap 16V Mk1.
> 
> 1.- custom made (made your own headers and downpipe to joint in to your existent catback
> 2.-headers from siroco (very dificult to found
> 3.-spend 500dlls (in my case with shipping) with headers from Raceland and catback from Techtonicstuning


or header and catback from tt. expensive but worth it


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

*Distributor CAP*

I'm trying to buy the distributor cap for my saab 900. but i have one concern.
some threats use the Fiat strada cap because the 90degrees plugs, my question is is any issue if i use the strada or the SAAB 96 2.3l ? some one use this part? i cannot see if is different in dimensions only price (diffrences of 15dlls) :banghead:

strada









Saab


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## mxvw54 (Jun 10, 2009)

What length are you guys making your runners for the intake mani.

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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

mxvw54 said:


> What length are you guys making your runners for the intake mani.
> 
> Sent from my LG-E980 using Tapatalk


I'm doing mine 2.5inches from head


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> I'm doing mine 2.5inches from head


I hope you know what is the difference between long and short runners .


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

rysskii3 said:


> I hope you know what is the difference between long and short runners .


To be honest I don't.  what is it?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> To be honest I don't.  what is it?


Shorter runners, on the other hand, usually flow better at higher engine rpm. Reducing the length of the runners may allow the engine to make more power at the top end, but the trade-off may be a loss of power and torque at lower speeds. When choosing an intake manifold, therefore, the runner length should match the engine rpm range where the engine is built to make the most power. If you are building a low rpm torque motor, you want an intake manifold with longer high velocity runners. On the other hand, if you are building a high revving motor, you will probably want a manifold with shorter runners or runners with a larger cross-sectional area to flow more air.


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

rysskii3 said:


> Shorter runners, on the other hand, usually flow better at higher engine rpm. Reducing the length of the runners may allow the engine to make more power at the top end, but the trade-off may be a loss of power and torque at lower speeds. When choosing an intake manifold, therefore, the runner length should match the engine rpm range where the engine is built to make the most power. If you are building a low rpm torque motor, you want an intake manifold with longer high velocity runners. On the other hand, if you are building a high revving motor, you will probably want a manifold with shorter runners or runners with a larger cross-sectional area to flow more air.


Mmm ok i understood. But now im confused in what length of runners i need to do.... i want to build a daily car with enough power under the hood for some fun. Normally i don't use more than 4 or 5rpms....


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## mxvw54 (Jun 10, 2009)

Yea i was hoping to hear some differences in lengths and what they did to the power.

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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

is there any issue if i put the fuel pump under the hood in place of under the car?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

zero_red9 said:


> is there any issue if i put the fuel pump under the hood in place of under the car?


Depends on the pump. Is it push or pull style? But for me, no matter what, I would not put the pump where it's so hot.


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

alright, so I bought the adapter ring from TT and installed my vac advance dizzy with the gear from the 2.0 dizzy. still no spark. I have determined that I am cursed...and i have a bad MSD box. I bought it used off CL. guess thats what i get for being cheap. If i bought the Street fire msd box will that work in place of the MSD 6a i had? Anyone running the StreetFire Box?


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## silentsee4 (Sep 4, 2008)

rysskii3 said:


> I dont mean it should sound stock, but it just doesnt sound right. call who ever makes your cam and ask them if the cam will be good for carbs.
> Edit, just saw your other video in the build thread. That sounds much better, whatever you did is working. Not the exhaust part, but the engine seems to be running smoother.


I would assume that with his ability to get a engine to a 15:1 compression ratio, he may also have the ability to select the correct cam for a na setup...

:laugh:


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## photodude13 (Oct 8, 2009)

so im converting my mk2 cis 1.8 8v to carbs. ive been reading this thread for a few days now and have almost everything i need purchased. but when i went to buy the main jets i have no idea which ones to get. the large round or small rounds. also found another site saying i should go for a keihn 6mm head mains. im lost. thanks in advanced

http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/a_jet_kits_mikuni_selection.htm


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

What carbs are you using? Any mods to the engine? Cams?


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## photodude13 (Oct 8, 2009)

the motor is all stock. just wanted to get the engine running seeing the cis was all gummed up. i'll using 1998 R1 carbs. im at a cross between these two jets.

http://jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_mikuni_N102-221_main_Small_round.htm



http://jetsrus.com/a_jet_kit_street/yamaha_1000_YZF1000R1_R1.htm


im thinking small round seeing its made by mikuni and the specs are close to those i found. but jetsrus is saying keihn jets and specs match. are the threads going to be the same? is that really the specs i need?


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## zero_red9 (May 23, 2013)

photodude13 said:


> so im converting my mk2 cis 1.8 8v to carbs. ive been reading this thread for a few days now and have almost everything i need purchased. but when i went to buy the main jets i have no idea which ones to get. the large round or small rounds. also found another site saying i should go for a keihn 6mm head mains. im lost. thanks in advanced
> 
> http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/a_jet_kits_mikuni_selection.htm


Hello, 

My recomendation is that you need to get first the carbs after this you can order the jets. i'm telling this because there are a lot of models and you don't want to waste 20dlls. 

you can consult the measures of each

http://jetsrus.com/index.html


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## photodude13 (Oct 8, 2009)

I have the carbs, the Aeromotive regulator, fuel lines, fuel pressure gauge and the choke/throttle cables already with the cable ends. I ended up just measuring them my self and it was the mikuni small rounds. Thanks a lot for the reply though


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## Italian308 (Sep 15, 2010)

Well I have up and sold my car. My vr6 needed chains and a ton of other stuff so I traded it for labor and parts.


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## chasemydub (Jan 5, 2011)

Ok I've read about 90% of this thread or a few days there is a lot of info. 

The answer to my question my be there somewhere bare with me. 

Everyone seems to be running these carbs in mk2s with cis 
I'm trying to run carbs in a mk3 2.0 8v with motrontic so my question is about ignition. 
Can I use the motrontic for ignition and still ditch the ecu? Or do I have to run the "knock box" that seems to be what everyone goes to.


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

chasemydub said:


> Ok I've read about 90% of this thread or a few days there is a lot of info.
> 
> The answer to my question my be there somewhere bare with me.
> 
> ...


Carbs require lower fuel pressure. You will have to swap your fueling to make it work. Best way is to get low pressure fuel pump. Ignition, is all up to you. I did mine from scratch using msd


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## chasemydub (Jan 5, 2011)

Where would I aquire a knock box ? Is this a system already in the car or is this like a custom junction box I muxt build ?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

chasemydub said:


> Ok I've read about 90% of this thread or a few days there is a lot of info.
> 
> The answer to my question my be there somewhere bare with me.
> 
> ...


The ABA motronic ecu controls both fuel and spark. While it is a more advanced crank trigger system, it is hard to separate from the fueling. I'm working on an ABA setup in a mk1 using the knock box setup from an 8v mk2 and a Techtonics Tuning adapter ring for the distributor. I just swapped drive gears from distributor to distributor.


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## chasemydub (Jan 5, 2011)

YJSAABMAN said:


> The ABA motronic ecu controls both fuel and spark. While it is a more advanced crank trigger system, it is hard to separate from the fueling. I'm working on an ABA setup in a mk1 using the knock box setup from an 8v mk2 and a Techtonics Tuning adapter ring for the distributor. I just swapped drive gears from distributor to distributor.


So ditch the motrontic and find a knock box out of a cis ? Could some one explain to me where the box is located ?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

chasemydub said:


> So ditch the motrontic and find a knock box out of a cis ? Could some one explain to me where the box is located ?


It is located in the raintray, like the ecu in the mk3, though on the driver's side, IIRC. It will have a larger box (the knock box) and a smaller ignition module on the bracket. You will need both the knock box and the ignition module as well as the wiring, knock sensor, and distributor.


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## chasemydub (Jan 5, 2011)

YJSAABMAN said:


> It is located in the raintray, like the ecu in the mk3, though on the driver's side, IIRC. It will have a larger box (the knock box) and a smaller ignition module on the bracket. You will need both the knock box and the ignition module as well as the wiring, knock sensor, and distributor.


Ah excellent!! So the build begins. I'm gonna pull the motrontic/ ecu harness out today.


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## photodude13 (Oct 8, 2009)

To everyone running 1.8 8v R1 bike carb setups. Any of yall have a picture of your intake manifold? My fabricator is having a hard time making mine due to the bolts being so close to the intake ports. He wants to make my runners 1.5" wide. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Or anyone selling there's. Thanks.


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## vwscotty (Jun 1, 2012)

photodude13 said:


> To everyone running 1.8 8v R1 bike carb setups. Any of yall have a picture of your intake manifold? My fabricator is having a hard time making mine due to the bolts being so close to the intake ports. He wants to make my runners 1.5" wide. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Or anyone selling there's. Thanks.


Take a look here I posted my manifold for the aba today. Not exactly what your looking for but it gives you an idea

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2761499-For-Sale-Wanted-To-Buy-Thread/page40


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

photodude13 said:


> To everyone running 1.8 8v R1 bike carb setups. Any of yall have a picture of your intake manifold? My fabricator is having a hard time making mine due to the bolts being so close to the intake ports. He wants to make my runners 1.5" wide. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Or anyone selling there's. Thanks.


Keep in mind the 8v ports on the head are only so big to begin with. If he wants/has to start at a smaller size to clear the mounting bolts, as well as better match the head, that's fine. The runners just need to then taper out to the larger size for the bike carbs for good flow. I think most people start by cutting down a stock intake and weld adapters to that for the carbs.


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## photodude13 (Oct 8, 2009)

My concern is that the ports are 1.75"'s as the R1 carbs are 2". Tapering out the runners to carbs isn't the issue anymore. Now my main concern is, is it going to effect my flow to the head? Being that small? Here's a picture I took mached up before the test fit.


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## JSantiago110 (May 20, 2015)

Would you be so kind and provide me with the list of parts you needed for this swap.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

JSantiago110 said:


> Would you be so kind and provide me with the list of parts you needed for this swap.


That's precisely why this thread was created, to provide a list of parts and share experiences. Some of us have read the entire thread, and some of us, well....


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## Roccobuilder80 (Oct 17, 2011)

I am selling my r1 carbs I posted I link in the classifieds. I will sell cheap to a veedub enthusiast. Pm me if interested. I decided to go MS for my 16v.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Currently trying to finish reading all these pages. Here's my setup and I got a few questions. 

16v swap and r1 carbs 


















So these 3 lines are gonna be just vent? Is the big hose for the return? 











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## UroTuning (Jul 18, 2012)

69vdub carb setup is looking good! Hopefully ill carb my 8v :laugh:


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## @VR6 (May 26, 2014)

hi, 

I use R1 carbs on my Matra Murena.

Now i am using a aluminium custom inlet manifold, i want to rebuild it in RVS. 
The new RVS should also have a valve on each tube to use for carburator synchronisation.

On my current setup the carbs are placed almost horizontal.

Now i am rebuilding the manifold, would it be a good idea to put the carbs more vertical ? 
This because on the bike they are also placed more vertical or would this make no difference ?

thanks


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## @VR6 (May 26, 2014)

rysskii3 said:


> I was messing with the carbs today. This is the best I sync the carbs and keeping the rpm at about 1k. Below that the vacuum gets below the normal and above 1k the gauges sit about half way into the green.



are there pictures availeble of the connection of this balancer to the carbs or manifold, and maybe a working video ?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

So is the consensus still to run a low pressure fuel pump rather than keeping a fuel injected pump in combination with a bypass regulator? I'm still not sure I'm seeing the real downsides to the second option, seems like a lot of domestic car guys do it for carb conversions. I'm doing the carb conversion on an old Volvo which technically has the same CIS mechanical fuel injection as the old rabbits/MK2, but my car only has one out-of-tank pump.


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## Zhorik (Feb 9, 2014)

Lazy to read 80 pages , what we will best jet setup on stock KR with R1 carbs (street use)?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Finished mocking up my manifold, time to TIG weld it:thumbup:


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

Zhorik said:


> Lazy to read 80 pages , what we will best jet setup on stock KR with R1 carbs (street use)?


Depends on application. 180 main jets and 50 slow jets for stock street 16v is a good start. 
If you don't up the slow jets you'll have decel and off throttle popping, and you'll have poor part throttle sustainability and tip in response. If you plan on doing any road racing you'll want to up that to 200 min, as the 180's will begin to lean out under constant high load. 

Jets R Us will have everything you need. There's also a jetting guide to help you get your tune right.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I've got everything in place, I attempted to try and start it but nothing happened immediately. Going to try and troubleshoot this weekend.
http://i.imgur.com/tE****Sh.jpg


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## 92_MK_2 (Oct 11, 2010)

Saving for later. Gonna need this thread. Thanks 

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## mxracer85b (Jul 28, 2016)

I have a 92 Mk2 Jetta and I'm putting a OBD1 aba in it with R1 carbs. I'm just wondering what to do about my wiring harness. I want to remove as much weight as possible.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

mxracer85b said:


> I have a 92 Mk2 Jetta and I'm putting a OBD1 aba in it with R1 carbs. I'm just wondering what to do about my wiring harness. I want to remove as much weight as possible.


Sit down with the Bentley manual and start removing what you don't need.


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## mxracer85b (Jul 28, 2016)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Sit down with the Bentley manual and start removing what you don't need.


I have a Haynes


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

mxracer85b said:


> I have a Haynes
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Then get a Bentley manual.


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## barnacles1992 (Oct 24, 2016)

:beer:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

barnacles1992 said:


> :beer:



Random Bump eh?

Old video of mine from 2009.


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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

Posted this in the mk1 thread...Maybe someone in here had the same problem and can help a brother out. Here is the issue I'm having:

"Soooo...I'm having some issues getting my 16v up and running. I ran through all the basics and I'm pretty sure I've narrowed it down to a fueling issue. I systematically tested my fuel system and the pump works great! It pulls the fuel out of the fuel cell, through a filter then passes it along through another filter, a FPR then out towards the carbs. I tested each section and the fuel gushed out when flipped on. However, once I hook the fuel line up to the carbs (R1 Carbs) it seems to stop pulling fuel. The filters don't fill up with anything as they do when just running the fuel into a can. It's like something is holding it back. At this point I'm thinking it's something to do with the carburetors. Is there anything I should be looking for at the carbs? Do I need to un cap anything? Anyone else have this issue? I took my carbs apart to put bigger jets in, cleaned then resealed. I don't see any leaks on any of the float bowls, and I have fuel in them. The car wants to start but it's just not getting the fuel. Any help is much appreciated! I will try to get some photos up of the carbs to see if I'm missing anything. Thanks!"

Took my manifold and the carbs off the other day to seal the runner I tapped and check the floats to see if they were sticking or stuck. Everything seemed fine so I sealed the float bowls back up, let everything dry over the weekend and tried to start it yesterday, but I'm having the same issue. Any help would be awesome as I've been banging my head on this one for a week now. :banghead:


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

see if you can blow air into the float bowls with your mouth. kinda sounds like your float needles are stuck in the closed position (though you stated you checked that). if they are, then the carbs are acting like a dead end and not letting the air escape to allow the fuel to flow through the line.


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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

yeayeayea said:


> see if you can blow air into the float bowls with your mouth. kinda sounds like your float needles are stuck in the closed position (though you stated you checked that). if they are, then the carbs are acting like a dead end and not letting the air escape to allow the fuel to flow through the line.


I literally just got the thing to start and run. I have to hold the choke open to keep it running though. Also when I tried to blip the throttle it would stutter and cough. If I let off the choke it cuts out.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

WaStateKillerBee said:


> I literally just got the thing to start and run. I have to hold the choke open to keep it running though. Also when I tried to blip the throttle it would stutter and cough. If I let off the choke it cuts out.


You have the right jets in? Are the carbs synced


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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

69vdub said:


> You have the right jets in? Are the carbs synced
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I put #180 main jets in from jetsrus.com. Carbs are synced, the butterflies are tight when closed, I can see fuel on them and it runs OK when I hold the choke open.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

WaStateKillerBee said:


> I put #180 main jets in from jetsrus.com. Carbs are synced, the butterflies are tight when closed, I can see fuel on them and it runs OK when I hold the choke open.


Run without a choke, that's what I plan on doing 


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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

69vdub said:


> Run without a choke, that's what I plan on doing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


?


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

WaStateKillerBee said:


> ?


I'm not hooking my choke cable up, I live in Hawaii and essentially won't need it cause it's always warm. 

If it stays running with the choke open you're getting to much air or not enough fuel. How are your carbs positioned? How's your idle set mixtures? Have you tried adjusting those 


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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

69vdub said:


> I'm not hooking my choke cable up, I live in Hawaii and essentially won't need it cause it's always warm.
> 
> If it stays running with the choke open you're getting to much air or not enough fuel. How are your carbs positioned? How's your idle set mixtures? Have you tried adjusting those
> 
> ...


I haven't adjusted the idle set screws at all. They still have the brass plugs covering them, so I need to remove those before I can get to the adjustment screws. 
Here's how they sit in the car:
https://flic.kr/p/UFJFBohttps://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

I wanna say it looks like they're angled to much up honestly. My filters almost line up with the core support 











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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

Here's a short video. I really think it's my ghetto intake manifold. I'll have to build one. I tried to go the cheap route and cut the old 16v intake manifold.
Rabbit-First-Starthttps://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## prasina2 (Apr 10, 2003)

^ video is "private"


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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

prasina2 said:


> ^ video is "private"


Should be fixed now.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Great Thread :thumbup: :thumbup:

I've read through most of it, so I apologize if this was mentioned already: Does anyone know how many degrees the motor tilts back (using the head to block surface as a reference point). In my case it would be an 8v and I'd like to mock up the head on a workbench when I figure out intake manifold cuts & such.


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## GURNMODE420 (Aug 1, 2005)

Hopefully have mine running soon aba 11.5:1 268 cam 190 mains to start, this thread helped me a bunch thanks guys









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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

^ Looking good ^ :thumbup::thumbup:

Any pics of your intake manifold? And what fuel pump did you go with?


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## GURNMODE420 (Aug 1, 2005)

Some pics of my manifold and I got a factory r1 pump and gonna try that out









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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

GURNMODE420 said:


> Some pics of my manifold and I got a factory r1 pump and gonna try that out
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That Porsche oil cap though 


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## GURNMODE420 (Aug 1, 2005)

It might stay it may not I have like 2 other project cars and this one actually was a customer's that ran out of money and couldn't pay for finished work so he gave me the car and now I'm finishing it in hopes for mk1 madness, so if I have to put little to no money into it that'll make me happy. I'd much rather be working on my 78 rocco but need this one needs to be out of the house garage to do that. You could always donate one that's period correct for it😀😀😀 It's definitly the one odd ball part on it but I have other places for my money.

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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

GURNMODE420 said:


> It might stay it may not I have like 2 other project cars and this one actually was a customer's that ran out of money and couldn't pay for finished work so he gave me the car and now I'm finishing it in hopes for mk1 madness, so if I have to put little to no money into it that'll make me happy. I'd much rather be working on my 78 rocco but need this one needs to be out of the house garage to do that. You could always donate one that's period correct for it It's definitly the one odd ball part on it but I have other places for my money.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I had one on my a4, thinking about getting another one for my 16v

You wouldn't happen to have any early Rocco consoles do you?











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## GURNMODE420 (Aug 1, 2005)

I did I'd have to look around 

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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

When in doubt, try to have the carb angle match what they were on the bike they came off of. But I agree the carb angle looks a little high WaStateKillerBee, im not sure a hood would even clear.


Gurnmode you plan on taking a dremel or something to shave down those brass plugs in the runner ports? That is a pretty hefty protrusion you have going on into the airflow.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

GURNMODE420 said:


> Hopefully have mine running soon aba 11.5:1 268 cam 190 mains to start, this thread helped me a bunch thanks guys


 ^ Just a thought: You would probably benefit from a larger duration cam... Years ago I had a 2.0 crossflow (stock compression) on CIS in my GTI, and I tried a TT 268, then a TT 288, and dialed it down to a TT 276. The 268 was (to me) barely milder than stock. The 288 was pretty wild up top, idled rough, and notably lower torque off the line.

I settled on the 276 when a reputable engine builder explained my stock compression and the short runner plenum manifold wasn't a good combo with the larger cam. You have the advantage of the individual runners and higher compression in your favor. :thumbup:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

I went for the parting line of the float bowls parallel to ground level on mine. It's a pretty steep angle, but the air cleaners just clear the hood. It really puts them about 45 degrees from level. Wish I could offer input on how it runs, but it's been in limbo for the last 5 or 6 years as life has taken over. 

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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

yeayeayea said:


> When in doubt, try to have the carb angle match what they were on the bike they came off of. But I agree the carb angle looks a little high WaStateKillerBee, im not sure a hood would even clear.


Thanks! Yeeeeaaah I will look into the angle. I'm going to be making a manifold from scratch here pretty soon. And they actually did clear the hood...just barely haha :screwy:


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

WaStateKillerBee said:


> Thanks! Yeeeeaaah I will look into the angle. I'm going to be making a manifold from scratch here pretty soon. And they actually did clear the hood...just barely haha :screwy:


Even though you are building a new manifold where you will probably change the angle, the angle of your carbs is actually pretty correct to how they are on R1's. They have a very steep angle as seen below. The only issue I could foresee would be the hood being a restriction to air flowing into the carbs if it's that close. Otherwise I see no issue with that angle.


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## WaStateKillerBee (Apr 1, 2010)

dougkehl said:


> Even though you are building a new manifold where you will probably change the angle, the angle of your carbs is actually pretty correct to how they are on R1's. They have a very steep angle as seen below. The only issue I could foresee would be the hood being a restriction to air flowing into the carbs if it's that close. Otherwise I see no issue with that angle.


Thanks for the picture! :thumbup: If I don't have the rubber velocity stacks on then it has a lot more room. I've also thought about turning the rubber velocity stacks 180º that way they face right towards the grill. The air flow would be pretty efficient if I had them like that. I will definitely have to play around with it. Thanks again for that picture! :beer:


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## theGo (Aug 3, 2009)

Anyone ever ran the throttle bodies off the 2002 r1? 

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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

theGo said:


> Anyone ever ran the throttle bodies off the 2002 r1?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk


Mine are off an 01 r1 


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

After much research between Megasquirt and bike carbs, I decided to go the latter. I started pulling off all the CIS stuff off my '87 Cabby last night and am not looking back! I'll post some pics once I have the carbs in-hand, and a pile of the CIS parts.


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

Jettaboy1884 said:


> After much research between Megasquirt and bike carbs, I decided to go the latter. I started pulling off all the CIS stuff off my '87 Cabby last night and am not looking back! I'll post some pics once I have the carbs in-hand, and a pile of the CIS parts.


I approve of this decision :thumbup:


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

dougkehl said:


> I approve of this decision :thumbup:


Thanks! I'll be posting up some pics soon. I picked up the carbs today. They're Mikuni 40mm's and the bowls are notably sloped compared to the carb bore. The guy I got them from was just sitting on them for years and thought they came off a Yamaha R1. A quick Google Search seems to confirm that.

I've been ripping off all the CIS parts, and I cut off the raintray ('87 Cabriolet). So much more room behind the motor without the raintray!

Can I remove ALL the CIS related wiring, including the Lambda ECU under the dash, etc? 

Is the Distributor and it's related wiring completely independent of the CIS system? I plan to run the stock vacuum advance distributor for the time-being.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Jettaboy1884 said:


> Thanks! I'll be posting up some pics soon. I picked up the carbs today. They're Mikuni 40mm's and the bowls are notably sloped compared to the carb bore. The guy I got them from was just sitting on them for years and thought they came off a Yamaha R1. A quick Google Search seems to confirm that.
> 
> I've been ripping off all the CIS parts, and I cut off the raintray ('87 Cabriolet).  So much more room behind the motor without the raintray!
> 
> ...


Yes, you can remove all of the CIS wiring and the Lambda control module. The ignition is it's own harness and system and can be retained with no issues. You may need to incorporate the open/closed throttle switches for the ignition somehow, it's been quite a few years since I started my setup. I'm also using a knock-box setup from a 16V.

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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Good point on the throttle position switch. I'll keep those parts, and will figure out a way to integrate it into the linkage. :thumbup:

I'm going to make a pile of all the CIS related parts, compared to the carbs. I think it will be a good motivating factor for others to take the plunge!


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Some pics of the carbs as promised. If anyone can confirm these are from an R1 and has any model # info for ordering parts, that would be much appreciated! So far I've been looking at a website "Bike Bandit" for Mikuni parts.

These seem pretty complete, but a previous owner filled in the vents on the front. I'm planning to do a partial disassembly to clean and further inspect them. 



















I'm curious if this is normal for there to be the gap in the bore here? It looks like it's supposed to be this way, but doesn't exactly seem friendly to airflow...


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

^ Replying to myself as I found a few answers. Hopefully people are still following this.

I found a great site with diagrams of the carbs and reasonably priced (I think) parts: https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2001-yamaha-yzf-r1-yzfr1sn/o/m145829#sch521742

I also learned that the barrels in the front are not supposed to be all hacked up as mine are. It seems the Previous Owner modified them by plugging up the vents in the front with JB Weld then cut out the barrels to return that functionality (possibly the main air idle jet under there...) 

Since the R1 carbs were a bit rough I scooped up a set of recently rebuilt carbs from a ~ 1998 Ninja 900. They're in much better shape and very similar in size at about 36.5mm bore. The R1 carbs are 40mm IIRC. The smaller bore will be fine for my relatively stock 8v.

*And on to my question:* I have a spare in-tank transfer pump from a parted '87 Cabriolet. Does anyone know if the flow rate would be good for carbs? My plan is to keep the in-tank transfer, then put an in-line filter and the second transfer pump in place of the high-pressure CIS pump. I'll run a return-style adjustable fuel pressure regulator in the bay if needed.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Jettaboy1884 said:


> I'm curious if this is normal for there to be the gap in the bore here? It looks like it's supposed to be this way, but doesn't exactly seem friendly to airflow...


That slide is vacuum actuated. Under the black cap is a diaphragm. At idle that slide closes down to keep airflow directed near the main jet to help fuel atomization. The black slide has a needle valve that controls fuel flow as well. At WOT that slide moves completely out of the airstream, and also opens the needle valve below it. If your slides are not moving freely, you may need to clean your carbs or possibly could have a damaged diaphragm.


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## Shikeira (Nov 5, 2016)

I love the inspo on here. 

I was wondering if anyone has run CBR 900RR carbs on a 16v before. I just want something to get rid of the Jetronic injection currently in my Scirocco. 

I would assume they are similar to the R1 carbs , and I've seen them much cheaper than R1 carbs on eBay ATM.

-J


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Shikeira said:


> I love the inspo on here.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has run CBR 900RR carbs on a 16v before. I just want something to get rid of the Jetronic injection currently in my Scirocco.
> 
> ...


It all comes down to bore, flow rate, and the ability of the carbs to flow enough air to support the engine. Yes, it is only a 100cc difference in the original engine, so you should be ok. It's just good to ask. 

How much cheaper? Granted, its prob been 10 years, and as they have gotten older I can't imagine they've gone up in price that much. I paid around $125 shipped for my R1 carbs. Peanuts when compared to the rest of what it takes to get them running, or especially to refurbish a CIS system. 

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## Shikiera (Jul 22, 2018)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Shikeira said:
> 
> 
> > I love the inspo on here.
> ...


I've seen most R1 carbs around the $215-$250 mark and most CBR carbs around the $150 mark. I'm still in school and flipping burgers for a extra cash ATM, so every cent counts :lol


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Deals can be had if you search around and wait for the right opportunity.

I picked up the R1 Carbs above for ~ $100 off Craigslist, and the Keihin CVK (Think they're from a Ninja) were from a friend of the family at a whopping $50.


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## Shikiera (Jul 22, 2018)

Also, I've been getting super confused on what I need to get a carb setup running. I know I (obviously) need:

-Carbs
-Jets (not sure what size)
-fuel pump (heard things from using a Carter one to a bike pump to using the OEM one with a regulator, not sure which one to use 🤔
-fuel line (specific to the carbs, but if I use the bike fuel pump, do I need to re-do my fuel lines?)
-manifold (using a template from a gasket with specific diameter tubing. Should I bend the tubing to make the intake ports?)
- air filters 
-some sort of ignition (MSD? SAAB distributor? Hotel? Trivago)
-throttle cable (modified bike brake cable I saw here)

This is all I think I need. I heard a lot about moving the alternator down and angling the radiator to make room. I appreciate any information you can provide 😀

-J


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Shikeira said:


> I love the inspo on here.
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has run CBR 900RR carbs on a 16v before. I just want something to get rid of the Jetronic injection currently in my Scirocco.
> 
> ...



Yup. 


https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5041909-build-thread-16v-cbr900-carbs-high-compression


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## Shikiera (Jul 22, 2018)

What size jets would you recommend for a bone stock 16v? I was thinking around 170.


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

1.8 or 2.0 16v?

A bone stock CBR 900 rr makes 125hp at 10000 rpms

So while these carbs will flow enough fuel to make 125+hp in stock form, our motors won't rev to 10k. Which means there will be more time between intake strokes since there will be less per minute, which is when the car actually pulls the fuel in from the carb. So to make 125hp with less rpms, each combustion must make more power to average out to 125hp since there are less of them. 

I'd start with a stage one jet, or get a drill index if you are comfortable drilling out your main jets yourself. slowly increase main jet size until you hit your desired A/F ratios.


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## Shikeira (Nov 5, 2016)

Its a 1.8 16v. I read from some other threads that around 165~170 is a good jet size for 1.8. Im still getting a parts list together and Im pretty sure I have everything minus the manifold and water neck, which i plan to order from Bogg Bros.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Probably time I post an update on my carb conversion, and I also need some help...

From pics above, I was in the middle of swapping these onto an '87 Cabriolet but ended up getting a Mk2 Golf with a gunked up CIS system (easy decision). 

Carbs are Keihin CVK, likely from a '96-'03 Ninja ZX7-R. After chasing down a couple of vacuum leaks, and hooking up the distributor advance, I am at the point where I can get them to fire up and idle. They'll only run with the choke (really a fuel enrichment circuit) engaged... I have a couple of issues I could use help with, here's what's happening:


Starting when cold takes a few attempts before sputtering to life.
As soon as I disengage the choke circuit it will die, regardless of how long it's been running.
I am using an AEM wideband O2 gauge.
I have the pilot mixture screws (fuel side) about 4-4.5 turns out, which concerns me as they loose "snugness" around 5 turns out so I know I'm pushing it.
Once warmed up with choke circuit still on and throttle 100% closed, AFR is around 12:1 - 13:1. If I blip the throttle off idle it bogs and dies.
If I crack the throttle plates using the thumb screw, it is my understanding that the plates uncover more (up to three) pilot holes. However, turning in the screw (opening plates) lowers RPM quickly and AFR progressively goes off the gauge (~ 17:1) and will die.
When warmed up, if I give an aggressive throttle pull it will bog a second then rev up. The AFR goes lean off the gauge though...

I don't have air filters yet (ordering tomorrow). I noticed if I cover a bellmouth or two with my hand, it revs up a bit easier and healthier-sounding, but still lean off the gauge.

All the above is leading me to understand I'm way too lean all around... So I removed the carbs, opened the bowls (not too bad inside) pulled the pilot mix screws and started cleaning. See pics below.

My main jets are 148, and pilot jets are 38. It's a stock low-compression 1.8L 8v, so any recommendations on either jets?

Some Pics:

Carbs with throttle linkage. Carb faces (with bellmouth) not installed yet here.










Bowls a little gunky, but otherwise decent:










For fuel I am using the stock CIS in-tank "lift" pump with new 5/16" hoses to the front and CIS stuff removed. I did try an under-car low-pressure pump but it wasn't moving any fuel, so I bypassed it.
In the bay I have a transparent filter, then another filter that has a second 1/4" outlet functioning as a return. This setup puts 3 PSI to the carbs.
I had tried using the Holley adjustable FPR (laying on strut tower) in a return arrangement, and it functioned the same as this setup...











Super-tight clearance to the firewall with carb bellmouths on:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

What does your fuel pressure do when you open the throttle? Does it hold or does it drop off? 

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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

^ Good question, I was always watching AFR, but never paying attention to the FP gauge...

It's going to be about a week before I get the carbs back on. I am cleaning them and ordering up filters which will need some trimming for fitment.

What would the fuel pressure indicate? I'd assume at idle the 3 PSI reflects closed fuel ports, and at open throttle it should drop a tick as the floats drop and let more into the bowls?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Yes, it should drop a little bit, but not a lot. If it drops too much you may want to try losing the return line and just running a dead headed system.

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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Finally some success, cleaning the carbs was the key! :laugh:

I was told they had been cleaned before I bought them so I didn't think to open them up and check... I did a light disassembly on them, pulling the pilot (idle) screws, pilot jet and main jets. It's amazing how tiny the pilot jet holes are, and easily gummed up... I sprayed nearly a can worth of carb cleaner forward and reverse (where possible) through the pilot and main circuits.

I have the pilot screws about 2-1/4 to 2-1/2 turns out which is much more appropriate. The throttle plate thumb adjuster works exactly as expected now, raising and lowering the idle speed properly. The starter circuit (choke) works much better, and I can close it off after it warms up for a couple of minutes.

Once warmed up with choke off, I've got the AFR fluctuating around 13-15 with idle RPM around 1,000. If I blip the throttle I am still getting an bit of hesitation before revving, and an occasional backfire out of #4 cylinder. It seems to get better the longer I run it though. 

Fuel pressure at idle is pretty steady, mostly at 3 PSI but randomly dipping to 2.5 PSI and back up. I added a 1-way valve after the return port, which I know is functionally pointless but helps put a little bit of resistance in the line.

For idle AFR, should I open the fuel screws a bit more and run it richer? That might help with the throttle blips off idle going lean?

And I assume my next step is trying to drive it and put some load on the engine? No real way to ascertain how the Main & Needle are functioning by just revving it without load...


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

I also had a scary incident and have to revise my throttle linkage...

I was standing in the drivers door revving it up with the pedal and the cable snagged on one of the bolt heads (two small bolts with blue locktite) and held the throttle open about 50%. It revved up to redline for what felt like an eternity (probably 5 seconds) while I fumbled around and shut it off... I'm not sure if the ignition system was cutting spark or I was floating valves...


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I know on my 89 16v, there was no rev limiter. The valve float was the only thing that limited your revving, and that happened north of 8000rpm. The Rev limiter in a CIS car is built into the fuel injection i think, not the ignition (Fuel cut)


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

I believe you are correct on that, being that CIS is so sensitive to fuel pressure. Also explains why the fuel pump relays are so particular...

This is a bone stock, low compression, small valve 8v with hydro lifters so it wouldn't surprise me if it were floating valves around 6500...


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

Jettaboy1884 said:


> I believe you are correct on that, being that CIS is so sensitive to fuel pressure. Also explains why the fuel pump relays are so particular...
> 
> This is a bone stock, low compression, small valve 8v with hydro lifters so it wouldn't surprise me if it were floating valves around 6500...


If that is a single valve spring motor then that is probably the case. I believe the 16v was dual valve spring from the factory but my memory is foggy. I had autotech cams and valve float hit right after 8k and made a funny sound.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

I finally drove the car for the first time (ever) yesterday. I've got the idle A/F ratio pretty good between 12-14. Now I need to move the AFR gauge into the dash so that I can see what's going on under load.

The car is pretty soft all-around, and the carbs definitely need some tuning, but I am so happy to finally have driven it!

I did a quick revision on the throttle linkage to eliminate the cable snag issue. I need to tweak the cable clamp setup, but this works for now.










And here's a video of it running. Hopefully I can embed this correctly:


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## vwaudipreferred (Jul 19, 2005)

Question for you carb’ed guys. 
I have a 1.8 16v corrado I recently converted to bike carbs. 
Fz1 carbs, 170 jets, bogg bros manifold, fz1 fuel pump and a 1-4 psi fpr. 
The car runs but idles at 2200rpm. 
I can’t adjust the idle at all. Even by bringing the fuel pressure down to 1psi, nothing. 
I’m at the end of my rope trying to sort this thing out. 
Any ideas?










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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Vacuum leak?

What's your AFR @ idle?

Is your throttle cable allowing the carbs to close the whole way?

Have you cleaned and baseline adjusted the carbs?

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## vwaudipreferred (Jul 19, 2005)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Vacuum leak?
> 
> What's your AFR @ idle?
> 
> ...


Not sure about vacuum leaks. The only vacuum line I know of is the one from the manifold to the brake booster. That one is fine. 

No idea of the AFR’s 

Throttle cable isn’t connected. 

Carbs have been cleaned and balanced. 


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## vwaudipreferred (Jul 19, 2005)

It was the float bowls. I adjusted the levels and all the issues remedied themselves. 

Thanks. 


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

I know this is an old post and I think I’ve read most of it. So I bought a setup of carbs, fuel pump and msd from someone who had this on their mk2. 

I’m putting it in my mk1 16v swap but holy **** this radiator and coolant neck on the head is giving me so many issues. Initially I had a civic radiator cause I saw it mention quite a bit. I didn’t like they way it looked or how we had to angle it so had got one from S&P automotive. It was a tucked radiator for carb swaps and I sent it back as I would have to run an in-line fill for it and the inlet/outlet where on the passenger side and there was no room at all. 



















So I sent that one back and got their mini tucked version and again didn’t like it. The inlet/outlet was on the drivers side and running coolant hoses was just ugly. Had to buy these metal flexible ones and there was literally no room from the bottom of the carb to the coolant neck on the head to get a hose clamp on. Plus running the lower hose down and u see the front engine mount just looked awful 



















So now I’m on radiator 4, scirocco style with and end tank and inlet/outlet on passenger side. But again the issue I’m having is with the bottom of the bike carbs and coolant neck. 

I’m assuming at this point I’m gonna have to get a new intake manifold where the carbs are angled more up or do some serious fab work to the front core support. 

This is how the carbs sit now, would it be ok to angle them more




















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## vwaudipreferred (Jul 19, 2005)

69vdub said:


> I know this is an old post and I think I’ve read most of it. So I bought a setup of carbs, fuel pump and msd from someone who had this on their mk2.
> 
> I’m putting it in my mk1 16v swap but holy **** this radiator and coolant neck on the head is giving me so many issues. Initially I had a civic radiator cause I saw it mention quite a bit. I didn’t like they way it looked or how we had to angle it so had got one from S&P automotive. It was a tucked radiator for carb swaps and I sent it back as I would have to run an in-line fill for it and the inlet/outlet where on the passenger side and there was no room at all.
> 
> ...


Are you using an aftermarket coolant neck for bike carbs? 










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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

vwaudipreferred said:


> Are you using an aftermarket coolant neck for bike carbs?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I actually found that and ordered one, wasn’t impressed with the build quality. Gonna have to take a dremel to mine and clean it up a lot .


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## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

I used a stock radiator and radiator support and ABF waterneck but that was in a mk2. I too had the civic rad and wasn't a fan of the look. I didn't run filters though, so I had a bit more clearance. Could run the trumpet screens that some people have, they are mentioned in the thread.


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## allans (Mar 24, 2019)

Hi think this is the right place to ask this. So I've got a carbed Ce2 Jetta 1.8, and Ive put a crossflow head on it and I'm running r1 carbs. I'm using an intank pump to a surge tank under the car then to a r1 bike fuel pump, and have used a fuel pump wiring harness from the fuse box to the pumps from an digifant golf. I've tried to use the digifant fuel pump relay in the relay position 12, but it does not work. I've had the car running by just using a jumper lead in place of the relay. I've tried to search online for a solution and think i need to use a fuel pump relay from a early mk2 kjet or cis. So can anyone tell me before i buy a new relay that if i get a early mk2 fuel pump relay and plug it into slot 11 will this work or am i better of wiring a relay externaly???


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

From my research position 11 in a CE2 fuse box should be the horn relay. Position 12 should be the fuel pump relay. It sounds like you are using the stock in tank pump from the Digi, then the R1 pump in place of the Digi main pump, correct? If the R1 pump is in place of the main Digi pump and using the original wiring it should run off the original realy and fuses.


Have you checked your ground and switched signals in the fuse box? Have you tested the relay to make sure it is working properly? 

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## allans (Mar 24, 2019)

yes your right it is in position 12 I've corrected my post. And yes thats how my fuel system is set up. only thing is since the car was originally carbed it had a relay for the intake heater in position12 which I've tried to put a fuel pump relay in but doesn't seem to work, but the fuel pumps do go with a jumper cable in place of the relay. I've tested my relay straight of the battery and can hear it clicking on and off.


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## cabriosnap (Apr 24, 2009)

I am hoping someone else running R1 carbs on their ABA can chime in with jet size suggestions...I have seen everything from 165-200mm suggested but all just info gathered from skimming threads.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

cabriosnap said:


> I am hoping someone else running R1 carbs on their ABA can chime in with jet size suggestions...I have seen everything from 165-200mm suggested but all just info gathered from skimming threads.


I realize this isn't really helpful, but I've also skimmed threads and it seems that 160's are good for ~ stock 1.8L 8v. So, if your ABA is relatively stock, I'm inclined to think 170 or 175 is a good starting point. Jets are cheap enough to buy a couple sizes, though changing them can be a mess. Where are you planning to buy them?


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## vwaudipreferred (Jul 19, 2005)

cabriosnap said:


> I am hoping someone else running R1 carbs on their ABA can chime in with jet size suggestions...I have seen everything from 165-200mm suggested but all just info gathered from skimming threads.


I run 175’s on my 16v. 


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## Kimdongpoonn (Mar 6, 2017)

Finally got my carbs on. I am currently running cbr900rr carbs. I put a 42 pilot jet in and a 190 main. The 190 is super rich on wot. But the stock 124 is too lean. I'll try my 180 but will probably end up with a 160 or 170.

I have the tt 254 cams, headers, and 2 1/4 exhaust. 

The issue I'm having, is that when i let off the throttle it goes lean. Around 17 or 18:1 afr. If I let it sit and idle for a few minutes it eventually raises back to 14ish:1 afr. My mixture screws are set 5 turns out at this point. 

As soon as I give it any throttle itll richen up and be fine, but clutch in and off throttle drops again. 

Any ideas? I've also cleaned them already, and synced them.









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## UberWagen23 (Apr 4, 2017)

> As soon as I give it any throttle itll richen up and be fine, but clutch in and off throttle drops again.


You may want to try using 50 pilot jets. 42 is a bit small, it may be why you're leaning out off throttle. Off throttle and idle is primarily what the pilot jets handle.

190 may be a tad much for the mains as well, I'd grab some 180's while you're on the hunt. Rule of thumb for bike carbs, if you're more than 2.5 turns out, you need to rejet.

Report back and let me know if it helped!


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## Kimdongpoonn (Mar 6, 2017)

So I put 160s in for mains. I'm around 13.5 under wot which I'm happy with. Plus I have jets all the way to 190 so I've got options. I also drilled out my pilots to .4mm. Stocks were .3mm. Idle is still a little lean but not horrible around 16 to 17:1. But cruising is around 12-13afr. Which is a bit rich for cruising imo. I'd like to be closer to 14-15. 
However, if I go smaller on the pilots my idle still wont be rich enough. 
I'm at a weird kind of stand still. 

I've also noticed that after driving my car for a bit, the idle will raise about 200rpms at idle. And it rev hangs quite bad too which makes me think it's just dumping fuel. Or maybe my fuel pressure is too high. Although it reads at 1psi. 

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## vwaudipreferred (Jul 19, 2005)

Kimdongpoonn said:


> So I put 160s in for mains. I'm around 13.5 under wot which I'm happy with. Plus I have jets all the way to 190 so I've got options. I also drilled out my pilots to .4mm. Stocks were .3mm. Idle is still a little lean but not horrible around 16 to 17:1. But cruising is around 12-13afr. Which is a bit rich for cruising imo. I'd like to be closer to 14-15.
> However, if I go smaller on the pilots my idle still wont be rich enough.
> I'm at a weird kind of stand still.
> 
> ...


My car does the same idle rise when it’s warm. Ive changed jets, played with mixtures, adjusted floats. I’ve just accepted it. 










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## Kimdongpoonn (Mar 6, 2017)

Weird. The only thing I can think is the fuel isnt getting mixed well enough with the air because it's not sucking in as much as the bike would at idle. Or maybe it is the fuel psi. I've been messing around. And I'll keep doing so because I love these carbs haha. 

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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

What are you doing for ignition timing, do you have vacuum advance? If-so, where (and how) are you pulling vacuum from? If pulling from a single runner that may not be enough.

This just covers the basics, but it's a good start: https://www.classiccarrestorationclub.com/article/carburetor-tuning-ignition-first/#

And this one (read down a bit) gets into things a bit more: http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/additional-tech/1601-everything-you-wanted-to-know-about-vacuum-advance-and-ignition-timing


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## Kimdongpoonn (Mar 6, 2017)

I'm running a 16v knock box. No vac reference, but with it hooked up it wasnt making a difference either. 

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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Got a wiring question about the ICM. Not running a knock box, using a full msd setup. All the wiring diagrams I’ve found show 4 wires but my plug has 6 wires in the 7 pin connector and three of those have been spliced into the distributor plug. 

Anyone have the wiring for the 6 wire plug? I’ve looked in the Bentley and don’t see any wiring diagram that has 6 wires for the ICM. 











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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

69vdub said:


> Got a wiring question about the ICM. Not running a knock box, using a full msd setup. All the wiring diagrams I’ve found show 4 wires but my plug has 6 wires in the 7 pin connector and three of those have been spliced into the distributor plug.
> 
> Anyone have the wiring for the 6 wire plug? I’ve looked in the Bentley and don’t see any wiring diagram that has 6 wires for the ICM.
> 
> ...


What year and model car are you working on?

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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

YJSAABMAN said:


> What year and model car are you working on?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


It’s a 79 rabbit. 16v swap with R1 carbs. MSD 6AL, tach adapter, start/retard box and adj timing control box. 


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

YJSAABMAN said:


> What year and model car are you working on?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


I found this in another thread. Should work for what I need 











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## A2J7C (Aug 11, 2013)

Hi there guys,

Just swapped my 79 Rocco with a 16v 9A bloc, ABF cams and R1 Carbs. Standard electronic ignition that i had already in the car, with a vacuum distributor.
Jets are 180mm Main, 50 Idle.

The car started right up, no problems there. But it is really smoking black. Not even exagerating, you can't stay behind the car without suffocating. And when in a Red Light, well..... a nightmare for those how are behind me :facepalm:

The head was done with new seals and valves, the bottom end is stock, nothing done to it, it has 180k kms (112k miles)


Since the carbs are putting more gas in, do i need to go with another oil than the one stock for this engine?
Now i'm running with the 10W40. Searched all of this topic for oil posts, but found nothing clear and precise, to what people have been running with a similar set up.

Should i try another oil? Do the 16v engines accept 20w50 oil?
Or i have no choice and do the bottom end, piston rings, etc?


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## dogzila22 (Apr 1, 2008)

Use 10W40 oil, if you use small radiator use maybe 10w60 it will rob power and to thick for daily driving


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

A2J7C said:


> Hi there guys,
> 
> Just swapped my 79 Rocco with a 16v 9A bloc, ABF cams and R1 Carbs. Standard electronic ignition that i had already in the car, with a vacuum distributor.
> Jets are 180mm Main, 50 Idle.
> ...


Black smoke is fuel, not oil. Oil smoke is blue. What is your fuel pressure? If you pull the dipstick does the oil smell like fuel? Float level ob the carbs? Idle bleed screw adjustment?

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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

First thing I think of with black smoke is that you're running really rich. The way you describe it makes it almost sound impossibly rich (like it wouldn't even run well) but still...

Do you have a wideband O2 gauge?

And do you have a pressure gauge on the fuel feed line to the carbs?

Do you have your choke hooked up? Perhaps it's on choke and you don't realize it?

Very nice setup by the way, that looks great. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## A2J7C (Aug 11, 2013)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Black smoke is fuel, not oil. Oil smoke is blue. What is your fuel pressure? If you pull the dipstick does the oil smell like fuel? Float level ob the carbs? Idle bleed screw adjustment?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk





Jettaboy1884 said:


> First thing I think of with black smoke is that you're running really rich. The way you describe it makes it almost sound impossibly rich (like it wouldn't even run well) but still...
> 
> Do you have a wideband O2 gauge?
> 
> ...



Thank's guys for the replys!

So to try and answer all the questions:

- The pump is a R1 pump, don't know the fuel pressure 
- I don't have a AFR/o2 sensor or gauge 
- Choke is not hooked up
- The oil doesn't smell a lot like fuel, but it doesn't smell like only oil... i think that there is a bit of fuel in it
- Float level for me is the standard, i just made sure that all 4 where the same. i didn't find an exact information about it, if you have some information about the mesurement that it should have when installed on the 16v, it would be really helpfull
- Idle screw ajustment is at 2 and 1/2 turns 


Today i made this:

- Changed the ajustment screw to 1 turn only, absolutely no change, engine starts immediatly and stays at 1k rpm.
- Looked the timing and i have +9/10° degrees of advance.
- Hooked up my gauges for the syncronization of the carburettors, they are all good
- Spark plugs are black and somewhat greassy


The car runs like crazy!! It has tons of power! so she is running right and reving with no problems. But i only made like 10 miles 

I'm waiting for 170 jets that should be arriving soon, but don't even know if that will make a difference 

Enlighten me please!!


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## Kimdongpoonn (Mar 6, 2017)

So car runs pretty damn good, but according to my afr gauge its rich io top. Close to 11 still. I've got slightly larger mains, I think 150s iirc. The pilots were changed out for two sizes larger so that itd idle and decel properly. Do i need smaller mains?? I'm really close to swapping a 1.8t in lol. 

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## mdelvalle1 (Nov 16, 2012)

A2J7C said:


> Thank's guys for the replys!
> 
> So to try and answer all the questions:
> 
> ...



Sounds logic but, are you using the R1 carb fuel pump (2261YM07501)? not the fuel injection fuel pump (2CR-13907-01-00), carbs use low pressure for work correctly 2-5 psi, injection use a high pressure fuel pump.


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## mdelvalle1 (Nov 16, 2012)

mdelvalle1 said:


> Sounds logic but, are you using the R1 carb fuel pump (2261YM07501)? not the fuel injection fuel pump (2CR-13907-01-00), carbs use low pressure for work correctly 2-5 psi, injection use a high pressure fuel pump.



Also see the height in your needles, maybe too high.
Check the fuel pump works correctly. It should run for a few seconds and stop working when carb deposits are filled with fuel, and then works again and again in a cycle.
Check the float valve in the carbs,maybe not closing when carbs are totally filled.


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## dish00 (Oct 18, 2007)

I need some education...

I bought the car with a 2.0l 16v with R1 carbs. Having some running rich issues after messing with things. I recently replace the jets and almost ready to put the carbs back on the car however the carbs had the throttle switches from the regular throttle body connected to the carbs. One of the wires has came loose from the idle throttle sensor so I was looking to replace with another set of throttle switches I had in the parts bin. I cannot get the switches to line up so the idle switch is pressed in at idle and the WOT switch press when wide open.

I don't really understand what this system does. Can anyone explain? Also is there a different/better way to do this. Ive included some photo which hopefully show my setup.

Also, I have seen reference to Air/Fuel gauges. My car does not have one installed. What would be recommended as a setup for this?

Thanks








[/url]IMG_2122-1 by Photography Dish, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]119480165_10158488053747209_3169879408630457300_o by Photography Dish, on Flickr[/IMG]








[/url]119330607_10158488052657209_6203220284465186965_o by Photography Dish, on Flickr[/IMG]


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

IIRC the idle switches and WOT are related to the ignition system and the timing advance under the conditions where they are tripped.

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## mdelvalle1 (Nov 16, 2012)

dish00 said:


> i need some education...
> 
> I bought the car with a 2.0l 16v with r1 carbs. Having some running rich issues after messing with things. I recently replace the jets and almost ready to put the carbs back on the car however the carbs had the throttle switches from the regular throttle body connected to the carbs. One of the wires has came loose from the idle throttle sensor so i was looking to replace with another set of throttle switches i had in the parts bin. I cannot get the switches to line up so the idle switch is pressed in at idle and the wot switch press when wide open.
> 
> ...




simply repair the wire in the switch, you cant line up the switches because they are different ones

the wot switch plays a role in the ignition timing, but only when you´re using the ignition control module from the r1, i think you´re not, so this is irrelevant.

What was the switch connected to?


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## allans (Mar 24, 2019)

So I’ve got yamaha r1 carbs on my 1.8l 8v running now, only issue is that my accelerator pedal has very little travel, I’ve been told you can either modify the pedal or the carb, anyone done this or have pictures of what is needed?


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

allans said:


> So I’ve got yamaha r1 carbs on my 1.8l 8v running now, only issue is that my accelerator pedal has very little travel, I’ve been told you can either modify the pedal or the carb, anyone done this or have pictures of what is needed?


Simply install an actuator lever hooked to the carb pulley to increase the travel of the pedal, i do it to mine, send you pictures later.


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)




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## [email protected] (Dec 8, 2007)

I made myself new throttle cable drum








note the eliptical shape it gives more resolution for light load and small throttle opening.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

More great info in here, thanks guys!

Today I dug my project out from under the piles of crap it has accumulated over the years. Really just to be able to move it out of the garage to work on other projects in the space. I did get to open the hood and gaze upon it for a bit, though!

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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

Hi all, here is what i did, hope it will be useful


Engine 1.8 8V, CBR 900RR carbs, stock ignition, centrifugal dizzy with vacuum advance unpluged, mechanical fuel pump with fuel restrictor to carbs.Number of testslow jet sizeidle screws turns outmain jet sizeNeedle jet heightResults1403155standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean2403165standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean3403180standardGood idle, no throttle response and super bad revving and no power at all, really bad MPG, super black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running super rich4501.5165standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich5501.5155standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich6501155standardBetter idle, better throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich7503/4150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs very with light carbon build up, running rich yet8501/2150standardgood idle, good throttle response and reving, can feel the power, nice MPG, spark plugs with very light carbon build up almost unperceptible, running almost normalAt this point i get an AFR narrow band gauge, the numbers at idle was oscilating between 14.3-14.6, at WOT oscilating between 12.3-13, maybe use a 140 mains, play with needle heights and see what happens


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

New update:


Engine 1.8 8V, CBR 900RR carbs, stock ignition, centrifugal dizzy with vacuum advance unpluged, mechanical fuel pump with fuel restrictor to carbs.Number of testslow jet sizeidle screws turns outmain jet sizeNeedle jet heightResults1403155standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean2403165standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean3403180standardGood idle, no throttle response and super bad revving and no power at all, really bad MPG, super black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running super rich4501.5165standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich5501.5155standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich6501155standardBetter idle, better throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich750 3/4150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich yet850 1/2150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, can feel the power, nice MPG, spark plugs with very light carbon build up almost unperceptible, running almost normalAt this point i get an AFR narrow band gauge, the numbers at idle was oscilating between 14.3-14.6, at WOT oscilating between 12.3-13, maybe use a 140 mains play with needle heights and see what happens950 1/2140standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, +-25 MPG, spark plugs with no carbon build up, running normal, 14.3~14.6 at idle, 13~14 at WOT


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

lonchovalle said:


> New update:
> 
> 
> Engine 1.8 8V, CBR 900RR carbs, stock ignition, centrifugal dizzy with vacuum advance unpluged, mechanical fuel pump with fuel restrictor to carbs.Number of testslow jet sizeidle screws turns outmain jet sizeNeedle jet heightResults1403155standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean2403165standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean3403180standardGood idle, no throttle response and super bad revving and no power at all, really bad MPG, super black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running super rich4501.5165standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich5501.5155standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich6501155standardBetter idle, better throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich7503/4150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich yet8501/2150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, can feel the power, nice MPG, spark plugs with very light carbon build up almost unperceptible, running almost normalAt this point i get an AFR narrow band gauge, the numbers at idle was oscilating between 14.3-14.6, at WOT oscilating between 12.3-13, maybe use a 140 mains play with needle heights and see what happens9501/2140standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, +-25 MPG, spark plugs with no carbon build up, running normal, 14.3~14.6 at idle, 13~14 at WOT


Some pics:


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

lonchovalle said:


> Some pics:
> View attachment 62265
> View attachment 62267
> View attachment 62268
> ...


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

lonchovalle said:


> New update:
> 
> 
> Engine 1.8 8V, CBR 900RR carbs, stock ignition, centrifugal dizzy with vacuum advance unpluged, mechanical fuel pump with fuel restrictor to carbs.Number of testslow jet sizeidle screws turns outmain jet sizeNeedle jet heightResults1403155standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean2403165standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean3403180standardGood idle, no throttle response and super bad revving and no power at all, really bad MPG, super black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running super rich4501.5165standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich5501.5155standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich6501155standardBetter idle, better throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich7503/4150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich yet8501/2150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, can feel the power, nice MPG, spark plugs with very light carbon build up almost unperceptible, running almost normalAt this point i get an AFR narrow band gauge, the numbers at idle was oscilating between 14.3-14.6, at WOT oscilating between 12.3-13, maybe use a 140 mains play with needle heights and see what happens9501/2140standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, +-25 MPG, spark plugs with no carbon build up, running normal, 14.3~14.6 at idle, 13~14 at WOT



New update:


Engine 1.8 8V, CBR 900RR carbs, stock ignition, centrifugal dizzy with vacuum advance unpluged, mechanical fuel pump with fuel restrictor to carbs.​Number of testslow jet sizeidle screws turns outmain jet sizeNeedle jet heightResults1403155standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean2403165standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean3403180standardGood idle, no throttle response and super bad revving and no power at all, really bad MPG, super black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running super rich4501.5165standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich5501.5155standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich6501155standardBetter idle, better throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich750 3/4150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich yet850 1/2150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, can feel the power, nice MPG, spark plugs with very light carbon build up almost unperceptible, running almost normalAt this point i get an AFR narrow band gauge, the numbers at idle was oscilating between 14.3-14.6, at WOT oscilating between 12.3-13, maybe use a 140 mains play with needle heights and see what happens950 1/2140standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, +-25 MPG, spark plugs with no carbon build up, running normal, 14.3-14.6 at idle, 13-14 at WOTAfter around 200 miles of driving the spark plugs shows very little carbon build up may be caused by the combination of slow and main jets at middle range throttle so the slow jet was replaced with a 45 size10452 1/2140standardNot yet, check pending


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

Hi all 

After driving around 100 miles take out the plugs and it seems OK no carbon build up at all, wet or oil.

I think i get the correct AFR mixture, got a decent MPG (~4.5 gal in 100 miles) so i decide use this setup permanently.

some pics of three of the plugs:


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Quick question in regards to msd wiring. According to the msd only thing going to the coil should be the two msd wires. 

Mk1 wiring had a neg wire for the starter and I believe the other went to the fuel pump relay. 

How did y’all rewire your setup. 


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

A LITTLE GUIDE ABOUT HOW I DID IT.

HOPE IT HELPS.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Man, that's a really nice quality job on the intake manifold! I like how you used the motorcycle couplers on a mounting flange. I had considered that for my old setup but went the easier route of fuel hose couplers. I'm surprised you didn't take advantage of those four small vacuum nipples. Are you drawing vacuum from somewhere else?


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

Thanks buddy, actually it works pretty good with the centrifugal advance in the dizzy and no need of the vacuum advance, you are right, the idea was to use the nipples for the vacuum advance but there is no issues at all right now, but i’ll do it in the future.


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

The last adjustments and definitive setup:



Engine 1.8 8V, CBR 900RR carbs, stock ignition, centrifugal dizzy with vacuum advance unpluged, mechanical fuel pump with fuel restrictor to carbs.​Number of testslow jet sizeidle screws turns outmain jet sizeNeedle jet heightResults1403155standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean2403165standardGood idle, no throttle response and low power with bad revving, running hot and too lean3403180standardGood idle, no throttle response and super bad revving and no power at all, really bad MPG, super black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running super rich4501.5165standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich5501.5155standardBad idle, better throttle response and better revving, feels a bit of power, bad MPG, black spark plugs with carbon fouling, running rich6501155standardBetter idle, better throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich750 3/4150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, feels more power, better MPG, spark plugs with light carbon build up, running rich yet850 1/2150standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, can feel the power, nice MPG, spark plugs with very light carbon build up almost unperceptible, running almost normalAt this point i get an AFR narrow band gauge, the numbers at idle was oscilating between 14.3-14.6, at WOT oscilating between 12.3-13, maybe use a 140 mains play with needle heights and see what happens950 1/2140standardgood idle, good throttle response and revving, ~25 MPG, spark plugs with no carbon build up, running normal, 14.3-14.6 at idle, 13-14 at WOTAfter around 200 miles of driving the spark plugs shows very little carbon build up may be caused by the combination of slow and main jets at middle range throttle so the slow jet was replaced with a 45 size10452 1/2140standardNot yet, check pendingAfter driving around 100 miles take out the plugs and it seems OK no carbon build up at all, wet or oil. I think i get the correct AFR mixture, got a decent MPG (~4.5 gal in 100 miles) so i decide use this setup permanently.​11453 1/8140standardChange the mixture in the idle jet by using the idle screw (3 1/8 turns out) after experimented little power at low RPM, issue was corrected


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

Recently take the plugs to check it and looks good for me after 750 miles


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Looks like you have a solid approach and made a lot of headway, very nice! 

A couple questions: Do you have a wideband O2 sensor/gauge to help you with the adjustments, or are you running purely on that narrowband? I have heard that narrowbands are unfortunately just not versatile enough for this kind of tuning.

Can you explain your fuel supply setup from tank to carbs? It seems a bit complicated in the bay. 

I never took my Mk2 bike carb setup as far as you've gone with yours (I sold it before dialing it in) but I learned that it was easy to over-complicate things. Going from a CIS system, I only had the in-tank "lift" pump moving fuel to the bay. It fed a normal in-line filter, and then another filter with a small second output nipple (intended to purge air) which would return excess fuel to the tank. My thought was that it would keep the in-tank pump from dead-heading when the carb float valves were closed.

With a fuel pressure gauge after that second filter, the feed line to the carbs still saw a steady 3 psi.


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

Do you have a wideband O2 sensor/gauge to help you with the adjustments, or are you running purely on that narrowband? I have heard that narrowbands are unfortunately just not versatile enough for this kind of tuning. 

As you points, initially i did try to tune the AFR with the narrowband, but it did not seems to be precise, so i decided to use the old school method trial and error by reading the spark plug at different RPMS:
At idle, 1000 rpms, 2000, 3000, 4000 and so on, taking out the spark plug to read it after revving the engine 1 minute on each range of RPMS.
Unfortunately i did not have enough budget for a wideband 😄😄 

Can you explain your fuel supply setup from tank to carbs? It seems a bit complicated in the bay.

I did also try to use a bike fuel pump, but experimented a lot of issues as i describe it in the attached file.

After a lot of issues, i finally decided to do a simple solution by use a fuel restrictor from the return line to the carbs, without the restrictor the carbs flooded really bad, when the float valves from the carbs are closed the fuel simply retuns to the tank due to the fuel restrictor. I think this configuration could works with the CIS fuel pump as well.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Tried starting mine for the first time a few days ago and couldn’t get it started. Heard a ping sound and quite trying. Noticed the adj cam gear bolts came loose and timing went full advanced. Pulled the head to see if any valves hit and noticed something weird with number 4. 

Number 4 plug was black while the other 3 looked new and the area around the valves was black. 











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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

@lonchovalle With your carbs at that angle have you or did you run into needle/fuel issues? i know a lot of bike carbs are side draft but those look to be rotated almost 90 degrees out of typical installation. Unless I am wrong. I like the way you have them setup keeping the intake for them off of the firewall!!


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

^ I can comment on that. You're correct that bike carbs are essentially a side-draft design. However, if you look at how they are installed on the motorcycle, the sport bike carbs are almost always installed steeper than a 45 degree angle, and often even more extreme at about 60-70 degrees.

Using the float bowl gasket line as a reference point for level goes out the window with a lot of these installations. Here's a couple of motorcycle installs that show the extreme angles:


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

As Jettaboy said, in most cases the carbs in the bikes are installed at about 60-70 degrees, mine are installed at 65 degrees, if reduce this angle the fuel will over filling the bowl, if increase the angle the fuel level will be not enough to feed the jets at high rpms.

As Jettaboy said, the float bowl gasket line is a good reference and must match with the ground level, but depending on the carbs you are using, this angle could be different.

I,ve seen a few configurations with bad angles, causing a lot of issues with the fuel.


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Loving the mounting angle discussion!

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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Loving the mounting angle discussion!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


Seeing them now not right up against the firewall has changed my opinion on install in 8v JH motors. I may have to try and assemble a parts list!

If a throttle cable linkage design that works with a sweeping motion, and FPR and Return lines ironed out seems like it could be a pretty easy swap without standalone needs on early 80s motors.


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

jinxd12 said:


> Seeing them now not right up against the firewall has changed my opinion on install in 8v JH motors. I may have to try and assemble a parts list!
> 
> If a throttle cable linkage design that works with a sweeping motion, and FPR and Return lines ironed out seems like it could be a pretty easy swap without standalone needs on early 80s motors.



Pretty easy in fact, once you understand how the carbs works (you must read a bit about it), even with DCOE´s or Dellorto´s, many people fear them but generally because don´t understand how it works.

Recently finished another swap on a Renault R12 of mids 70´s, but the installation is pending.

Some pics: (hope not to enrage the forum because is not a vw 😓)


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)




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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

lonchovalle said:


> View attachment 109368
> View attachment 109367
> 
> View attachment 109369
> ...


Fab skills on point with those.

Wish I had extra parts and pieces kicking around to give this a go!


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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

@lonchovalle and @Jettaboy1884 Do you guys know what year R1 carbs are the best/easiest to convert into ITBs? Or just if not R1 carbs then something I can search for to make parts lists to make/order?I see alot of 02-03 carb setups but not many 98-01 setups.

The 02-03 R1 carbs have the orange plugs at every throttle body. Can they be removed and just plugged?


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

jinxd12 said:


> @lonchovalle and @Jettaboy1884 Do you guys know what year R1 carbs are the best/easiest to convert into ITBs? Or just if not R1 carbs then something I can search for to make parts lists to make/order?I see alot of 02-03 carb setups but not many 98-01 setups.
> 
> The 02-03 R1 carbs have the orange plugs at every throttle body. Can they be removed and just plugged?


You're on two different things there. Carbs are carbs and just need a low pressure fuel setup and some jet tuning. The use atmospheric pressure and the vacuum of the engine to inject fuel. ITBs are for fuel injection and have electronic injectors in them and no float bowls or jets. They require other sensors, wiring, and a computer. The carbs are more basic, but probably not as efficient. R1s, and other sport bikes, came with both. Earlier models used the cabs while later models used ITBs and electronic injection. While the 02-03 look a lot more like carbs, the orange plugs are injectors and those models were considered to be fuel injected. Up to 2001 were carbureted and what this thread is dedicated to.

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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

@jinxd12 i’m not sure yamahas R1’s from 02-03 runs on bike carbs, but i think the Orange plugs you comments are fuel injectors so this are itb’s not carburettors.

im pretty sure all 600 to 1000cc bikes from the 90’s and some models from earlys 2000’s use carburettors, so virtually you can use what it mounts, no matter if they came from yamaha honda kawasaki or suzuki’s.

you can choose it from some of this models:

Yamaha r1-r6
Honda cbr600rr
Honda cbr900rr
Honda cbr1000
Suzuki gsxr600-gsx750
Kawasaki ninja zx1000-zx-7R

please corrects me if im wrong.


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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

YJSAABMAN said:


> You're on two different things there. Carbs are carbs and just need a low pressure fuel setup and some jet tuning. The use atmospheric pressure and the vacuum of the engine to inject fuel. ITBs are for fuel injection and have electronic injectors in them and no float bowls or jets. They require other sensors, wiring, and a computer. The carbs are more basic, but probably not as efficient. R1s, and other sport bikes, came with both. Earlier models used the cabs while later models used ITBs and electronic injection. While the 02-03 look a lot more like carbs, the orange plugs are injectors and those models were considered to be fuel injected. Up to 2001 were carbureted and what this thread is dedicated to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk


That's exactly what I was asking, but worded it wrong my bad. What years from the R1s or similar are the best to use? I think I was reading in this thread someone was using the R1s from 2001. Maybe I'm wrong.

I guess I didn't understand the reasoning for the orange plugs on the new ones, but now I do, they are for the injectors. Thanks for clearing that up!


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

@jinxd12 What years from the R1s or similar are the best to use?

you can use what you get on hands but by experience i can tell you the carbs must be imaculately clean for an easy setup and sync.
also i suggest to replace of all the gaskets and orings to avoid fuel leakeages.


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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

lonchovalle said:


> @jinxd12 What years from the R1s or similar are the best to use?
> 
> you can use what you get on hands but by experience i can tell you the carbs must be imaculately clean for an easy setup and sync.
> also i suggest to replace of all the gaskets and orings to avoid fuel leakeages.


That is a no brainer! Always new gaskets, and a full run through in the ultrasonic cleaner! Looking at carbs you have listed above now.


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

Cleaning must be an obvious thing to do but not all people do it.

People had a lot of issues to setup and sync the carbs due to a deficient cleaning and blame to other things that had nothing to do with.

hope you get the finish soon.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Glad you mentioned that. Carbs are simple in principle, but with their multiple circuits and lots of fine passageways inside, it's easy for minor contaminants to cause trouble. Doing a carb refresh isn't necessarily hard (I enjoy it) but a rack of four can add up to a couple hundred bucks in parts.

One important note: The small engine world has found that modern gas with the higher ethanol content seems to really cause problems in carbs. I'm not positive, but from what I read the ethanol draws in moisture, and that in-turn creates deposits in the bowls and even can corrode some of the fittings. As clumps move around, they can easily clog those tight passageways.

Some people seek out ethanol-free gas, but supposedly keeping the tank full (minimal air space) and running them regularly with high quality gas helps a lot.


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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

Well I'm in Phx, so inclement weather is never really an issue. Water in the gas type of stuff happens alot in new England where I'm from originally. Here not so much, maybe with winter gas up north?


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## jinxd12 (Jun 6, 2012)

Sourced some R1 carbs, and ordered a flange online! Need to read back through this whole thread to find starting point for JET sizes.

Anyone want to chime in for jet sizes 1.8 8v little head work done?!?!


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

Im running 45 slow jets-0.45mm (mixture screw 3 1/8 turns out) and 140-1.40mm main´s, but the carbs are keihin´s 38mm from a honda CBR 900RR i guess it could be a good starting point.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

My Keihin CVK's (36mm) came with 148 mains, and I replaced them with 162's from Jets R Us which helped a lot. But I never spent much time dialing those in as I traded the car shortly after installing them. This was on a low compression '85 Golf 1.8L.

Using a wideband O2 I was able to get the idle circuit running fine on whatever jets it had, with about 3.5 to 4 turns out. I remember that at about 5 turns out the screws got a little questionable.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Ok so after a long while I finally got my 16v with R1 carbs to start but only after spraying some carb cleaner in it. But the idle drops to 300-400 and then the car dies. I gotta stay on the gas to keep it running. 

I know there’s an idle adj screw and I think it’s this screw in the pic below?









If I turn the screw one way the car won’t start, if I turn it the other way it doesn’t stay running. Maybe I’m adjusting the wrong thing?


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Do those carbs have a "choke" bar that activates a plunger on each carb? On my Keihins, it wasn't actually a choke in the traditional sense, but it was more like a two step cold starting enrichment circuit. If yours does have it, what happens when you use it?


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Jettaboy1884 said:


> Do those carbs have a "choke" bar that activates a plunger on each carb? On my Keihins, it wasn't actually a choke in the traditional sense, but it was more like a two step cold starting enrichment circuit. If yours does have it, what happens when you use it?


I’m sure it does, there’s was another cable that came with this setup but I didn’t use it. 


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm not familiar with the R1 carbs, but if you can post up a few more photos, I'll do my best to try and point things out. Have you seen a diagram for them?


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

So it seems like fuel is part of my problem. The fuel out here is turning the brass green and clogging stuff. 










I’ve ordered a rebuild kit for them. I’m just wondering what size jets I might need as the kit will come with stock jets. 

Pilot jet I pulled out was a 20 and the mains have no numbers on them so other than sticking some metal in them and measuring the diameter of the metal I have no idea what size they are. 

Engine stuff
16v 2L
Port/polish head
Oversized valves
TT cams
TT 4-1 header


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Do you have a sonic cleaner? If-not, those things are amazing at cleaning up carbs and I highly recommend getting one. Just be careful what cleaner you use, as some stuff can end up being a bit too rough, or leave a weird finish. 

For the mains, if you can get a set of fine drill bits you may be able to find a sizing chart that correlates them to a bit diameter. From there, if you are feeling daring you could drill them out.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Jettaboy1884 said:


> Do you have a sonic cleaner? If-not, those things are amazing at cleaning up carbs and I highly recommend getting one. Just be careful what cleaner you use, as some stuff can end up being a bit too rough, or leave a weird finish.
> 
> For the mains, if you can get a set of fine drill bits you may be able to find a sizing chart that correlates them to a bit diameter. From there, if you are feeling daring you could drill them out.


Not really trying to drill anything out. Just trying to figure out what size jets I should be running. The car these came off of was tuned for 100 octane if I remember right. So I think a 20 pilot might be to much and I’m sure the mains will be to big as well 


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Well something new happened today. Put the carbs back on and got the car started and let it run for a bit then oil started gushing out the catch can 


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

69vdub said:


> Not really trying to drill anything out. Just trying to figure out what size jets I should be running. The car these came off of was tuned for 100 octane if I remember right. So I think a 20 pilot might be to much and I’m sure the mains will be to big as well
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


First of all, clean the carbs (deep clean, i mean DEEP clean), if the carbs was used in a car with similar displacement to yours dont change the jets, simply clean it and try also clean or replace the air filters.

Jetting depends on health of your engine so you must experiment with different jet sizes, you can get a mini drill kit (from 0.80 to 2.0 mm in stepf of 0.1 mm), fill the hole of the main jet with solder and drill it, test it, drill again to different sizes once you feels close to the right size, buy the correct jets.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

lonchovalle said:


> First of all, clean the carbs (deep clean, i mean DEEP clean), if the carbs was used in a car with similar displacement to yours dont change the jets, simply clean it and try also clean or replace the air filters.
> 
> Jetting depends on health of your engine so you must experiment with different jet sizes, you can get a mini drill kit (from 0.80 to 2.0 mm in stepf of 0.1 mm), fill the hole of the main jet with solder and drill it, test it, drill again to different sizes once you feels close to the right size, buy the correct jets.


Oh they got rebuilt. They where extremely dirty. Car runs now, just high idle and rich currently. Screws are turned out like 3 1/8th, so I’m gonna turn them in a few turns and see if that will bring the idle down and lean it out some. 


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

Ok carb gurus need some serious help, I’m at my wits end with this freaking thing. I’ve had it running a few times but it’s always a battle to get it started. The carbs where really gunked up so I took them apart and cleaned them and the car started and would idle. 

Idle was like 2200 rpm’s and was running rich. Then I got sick with Covid so now 3 weeks later I go to work on the car again. Turned the screws in fully and backed them out 2 turns vice the 3.5 they where at last time it was running in hopes of leaning the idle out and bringing the rpm’s down. 

Car wouldn’t start, just cranked. I have fuel and spark. We sprayed a little carb cleaner and the car would start but wouldn’t stay running unless you stayed on the throttle. If you got off the gas it would just die. 

Pulled the carbs off again to check the pilot jets to see if they where clogged again and they wherent. Bowls had plenty of fuel so fuel is getting to the carbs and jets 


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

2200 rpm for idle is too high, so i think it could be an issue with the choke (valve gaskets, actuator, cable, jet, or anything related with) may be the choke valves are not completely closed , you can check it by closing the throttle plates and try to blowing air throw the runners with your mouth, if the choke valves are closed there is almost imposible to blow any air.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

lonchovalle said:


> 2200 rpm for idle is too high, so i think it could be an issue with the choke (valve gaskets, actuator, cable, jet, or anything related with) may be the choke valves are not completely closed , you can check it by closing the throttle plates and try to blowing air throw the runners with your mouth, if the choke valves are closed there is almost imposible to blow any air.


I don’t have the choke cable hooked up 


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## lonchovalle (Nov 24, 2020)

lonchovalle said:


> 2200 rpm for idle is too high, so i think it could be an issue with the choke (valve gaskets, actuator, cable, jet, or anything related with) may be the choke valves are not completely closed , you can check it by closing the throttle plates and try to blowing air throw the runners with your mouth, if the choke valves are closed there is almost imposible to blow any air.





69vdub said:


> I don’t have the choke cable hooked up
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


check for


69vdub said:


> I don’t have the choke cable hooked up
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


well, cable unhooked doesnt mean you have not an issue with, if there is no air leaks in your setup (boots, manifold, etc) i think the choke is the guilty…. Good luck


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Agreed. The cable doesn't need to be connected for the mechanism on the carbs to have an issue.


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Agreed. The cable doesn't need to be connected for the mechanism on the carbs to have an issue.


Looked at the choke bracket. Slide it open and all the sliders slide open, choke closed the hole is sealed. 

None of the plungers are stuck. 

As far as capping lines not needed on the carbs? Do they need to be capped or is that just personal preference cause I’ve seen many videos on the old YouTube of cars running without any of the lines capped? 


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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Agreed. The cable doesn't need to be connected for the mechanism on the carbs to have an issue.


I’m guessing this car is just mad finicky. Went yesterday to work on it and was like I’ll
Try and start it and see what it does. Guess what started and ran no problem 










VW Mk1 16v R1 carbs







youtube.com






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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

These came in yesterday 











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## 69vdub (Apr 24, 2007)

What’s a good starting size of jets for the r1 carbs? Mine had a 20 pilot and no idea of main cause it had no numbers and looks to be drilled out. 

At idle afr is low 11.

Fuel pressure is like 5.5

Can’t remember how many turns on the screws


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

69vdub said:


> As far as capping lines not needed on the carbs? Do they need to be capped or is that just personal preference cause I’ve seen many videos on the old YouTube of cars running without any of the lines capped?


That will depend on what the lines do, but I'd be inclined to say no to capping any. There's likely bowl vents and you'll want those to breathe (ideally filtered) air.


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