# Caution for APR Stage II or higher for A3 Quattro



## bkaye434 (Feb 13, 2016)

Hey all,

About a month ago (shortly after going from Stage I to Stage II) my A3 started burning oil like crazy, and after 3 refills in a month I had the engine checked out and it turns out oil is filling 2 of the 4 cylinders :banghead:.... the engine is on its death bed. To an extent, I know I was unlucky with the car lottery, however after speaking with my local dealer, they told me I'm the 4th (Fourth!) A3 8V quattro in my city that has had engine problems with APR Stage II. I'm not here to bash on APR, because the vast majority of their products and tunes are fantastic. That said, If you have an A3, regularly inspect your engine and check the rate you are going through oil. It seems this car cannot handle APR's Stage II tune safely.


If anyone has any questions I'd be happy to answer them. The car is leaving me next week.


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## RUPERTPUPKIN (May 25, 2010)

Sounds like too much crankcase pressure blowing oil past the piston rings into the cylinders.





bkaye434 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> About a month ago (shortly after going from Stage I to Stage II) my A3 started burning oil like crazy, and after 3 refills in a month I had the engine checked out and it turns out oil is filling 2 of the 4 cylinders :banghead:.... the engine is on its death bed. To an extent, I know I was unlucky with the car lottery, however after speaking with my local dealer, they told me I'm the 4th (Fourth!) A3 8V quattro in my city that has had engine problems with APR Stage II. I'm not here to bash on APR, because the vast majority of their products and tunes are fantastic. That said, If you have an A3, regularly inspect your engine and check the rate you are going through oil. It seems this car cannot handle APR's Stage II tune safely.
> 
> ...


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## Diztek (May 27, 2004)

another APR horror story. wtf? why do people keep using them?


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

Diztek said:


> another APR horror story. wtf? why do people keep using them?


Probably because the rate of failure is still low, failure stories on the internet aren't exactly a rounded study of the safety and effectiveness of a tune. These people are modifying their cars and there's rarely a background workup of their driving habits before and after the tune, the parts they install, who installed them and all around care for a vehicle. If APR were actually seeing high failure rate they would hopefully decrease the tune or alter it for the safety of their brand, or suffer the consequences that come from excessive customer drop-off.


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## TREGGUY (May 22, 2004)

sevenVT said:


> Probably because the rate of failure is still low, failure stories on the internet aren't exactly a rounded study of the safety and effectiveness of a tune. These people are modifying their cars and there's rarely a background workup of their driving habits before and after the tune, the parts they install, who installed them and all around care for a vehicle. If APR were actually seeing high failure rate they would hopefully decrease the tune or alter it for the safety of their brand, or suffer the consequences that come from excessive customer drop-off.


Bingo. Not to mention that there is also these types of horror stories on cars that are not modded. Had a MKV GLI that has all kinds of DSG problems...never tuned or modified in any way. I would be curious to see data on how many major issues post tune vs the install base. My guess is that percentage is very very low.


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## Diztek (May 27, 2004)

TREGGUY said:


> Bingo. Not to mention that there is also these types of horror stories on cars that are not modded. Had a MKV GLI that has all kinds of DSG problems...never tuned or modified in any way. I would be curious to see data on how many major issues post tune vs the install base. My guess is that percentage is very very low.


im sure there are several factors ive not considered. im just on a lot of audi sites and facebook groups and i never see a complaint about UM or GIAC. its always unitronic or apr. maybe they just have more customers, so i see more posts in regards.


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## 27turbocars (Jun 26, 2016)

To the OP,

Sorry to hear about the issues. I personally bashed APR for other reasons various times but I ran APR Stage II on my S3 8V and APR stage I on my A3 8V quattro and their tunes are dialed in. No oil comsuption for me at all. As a matter of fact, I have been driving in the 118 degree weather for the last couple of days on 91oct and at altitude here in the Arizona desert and the cars are very solid(just like the summer before).

I wouldn't necessarily blame on APR . I drive my cars hard and I drag race and like I said, no a single issue. Car dealers are very quick to blame for any aftermarket parts so that they can justify the repairs. If you are not satisfied you can always remove the tune but any other tune out there will potentially create similar issues if that is the root. Good luck!


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## mroberte (Dec 18, 2014)

Get a catch can. My car was going through oil quicker than expected, but it just seems the car will suck up alot of oil when you push the engine hard and consistently. 

I just got back from a track day and the catch can caught a little over half a quart of oil /vapor/gas. I've had both the "africa" plate pcv replacing oem and now running the ecs version that piggybacks on the OEM. 

From my experience, catch cans are very necessary for the ea888 gen engines. I started experiencing the abnormal oil consumption even when stock, now have catted dp, exhaust, jb4, turbo inlet. I drive usually in the higher rev range (sport mode) and alot of city driving. 

What is happening is that oil just cannot drain back from the head to the crankcase fast enough and the pcv cannot filter the rush of oil when being run hard. This causes the oil to be sucked back into the intake and into the engine. 

Btw, when was your car built? I have a "launch model" 2015 2.0T Quattro which has the very early ea888 engine build. I think they have revised something as the issue is very intermittent between similar cars. 

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk


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## 27turbocars (Jun 26, 2016)

Diztek said:


> another APR horror story. wtf? why do people keep using them?


Right now you are speculating. You have one version which is what the dealer said but it is too soon to determine who is at fault. You probably don't have APR, I do, maybe you had APR and didn't like it, I have APR and I love it (no issues).
If you want to bring the "another horror" about tunes then I would say lets bring all the other "horrors" from all the other tunes, I have seen plenty of horror tunes out there from every tuner(no exceptions).

Lets give the benefit of the doubt, the vast majority of APR customers are extremely happy. I purchased 3 APR tunes for my last and current Audis they are flawless and I see that you are in AZ like me and even with the crazy heat the performance is stellar..


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## bkaye434 (Feb 13, 2016)

27turbocars said:


> Right now you are speculating. You have one version which is what the dealer said but it is too soon to determine who is at fault. You probably don't have APR, I do, maybe you had APR and didn't like it, I have APR and I love it (no issues).
> If you want to bring the "another horror" about tunes then I would say lets bring all the other "horrors" from all the other tunes, I have seen plenty of horror tunes out there from every tuner(no exceptions).
> 
> Lets give the benefit of the doubt, the vast majority of APR customers are extremely happy. I purchased 3 APR tunes for my last and current Audis they are flawless and I see that you are in AZ like me and even with the crazy heat the performance is stellar..


I agree with you, especially with the information provided. That said, remember that about the only reason this sort of problem could occur is there was too much boost for the engine to handle. Certainly could have been any tuning company, however in this case I had APR stage 2, and the boos levels it provided proved too much (albeit very very fun).


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## WhyFly (Sep 30, 2007)

Sorry to hear about the damage mate. One of the techs at Eurotech Motorsports in Mawah NJ who tuned my S3 to Apr Stage 2 owned an A3 and implicitly said that A3 engines should not be tuned beyond stage 1. S3 engines have forged internals and can handle the additional pressure whereas A3s cannot.


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## Diztek (May 27, 2004)

was just stating my observation. everyone gets so defensive with their tuning company. would love to see some negative reviews with other tuners in regards to the A3/S3 mqb platform. please share.


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## 27turbocars (Jun 26, 2016)

^^:beer: No problem with me at all.


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## Diztek (May 27, 2004)

27turbocars said:


> ^^:beer: No problem with me at all.


cheers, my friend. :beer:


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## mtbarr64 (Feb 21, 2017)

Lol! Tuning pushes stock parts to the limit. Car fails. Blame Audi not the tune....

Come on guys. At least be able to admit the stock A3's aren't having the issues. The stage IIs are and that points to the tune.

I know you want to defend your upgrade and your buddies and we form relationships with tuners, but please do not sugar coat or ignore the real risks with pushing stock components beyond their intended design.

Really VW and Audi engineers KNOW the limits with millions of miles of testing.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


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## 27turbocars (Jun 26, 2016)

^^ I dont think you are wrong at all, you have very valid points. There is a balance between performance and reliability however it is common to see modern cars endure thousands of miles on a tune with no apparent failure/downside. There is a lot left on the table power wise that the car manufacturers leaves. 

I think that a safe tune with conservative timing/fuel tables can provide extra power and still keep a safe margin or reliability..just my .2c


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

I was APR stage 1 at 300 miles in my car, stage two at around 1500, then IS38 around 17k and now am at 30k

Not a single hicuup or issue with my A3...Besides a sun roof rattle and AC compressor that took a ****. 

Then again, I am doing oil changes every 5k miles, using a good filter, good 93 octane fuel, have the right plugs in the car, etc. etc. etc.


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## mtbarr64 (Feb 21, 2017)

The 2.0 engine was designed to cover many uses with various internal component options.

I was just read Performance VW out of the UK, they explained nicely what internal parts had to be changed to take advantage of the different tunes.

I will scan and get that here as time permits.

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## Diztek (May 27, 2004)

keep in mind, audi did provide upgraded internals for the s3. they thought is was beneficial with the extra power.


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## 27turbocars (Jun 26, 2016)

^^ Indeed. It is a stronger motor with more stout internal components, better valves, better heads, bigger IC/turbo. Everything counts. Then you also have the oil coolers


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## will13k7 (Aug 30, 2015)

that sucks man. thanks for sharing. no way to really know what happened, audi and the tuners are likely not going to be straight about it, easier to point fingers at each other. I've been lucky so far with stage 2 tunes on my s3 and s4, they feel solid, but they are definitely stressing the car much more.


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