# couple new 16vt pics...



## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

got the motor in, running, and so forth..hittin the dyno sunday or monday hopefully....

pics are'nt the greatest, but gives you the idea...
























































pic of the dp before covering...








not much room for a dp when running the gt35r and atp manny..so we punched a hole throught the firewall..have a cover to cover it all up...


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Us2bA4dr)*

specail thanks to todd cason(TCASON here on the tex) of rt performance, he did all the fab work on the intake manifold, the dp/wg dump, the intake pipe and water box. does quality work and very reasonable. you can check his site in my sig..great guy to work with http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Us2bA4dr)*

Looks good. Can't wait to see what it puts down on dyno.
If you want real clean super-tight bends on that tubing, you can get those stainless 360 degree "donuts" and cut out the angle you need (instead of welding the wedged shape pieces together).
http://chassisshop.com/pdf/tubing.pdf


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## cnbrown (May 31, 2001)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Angular)*

Sick sick sick fab work!


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## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (cnbrown)*








Road legaL??
That xaust is crazeeee!
-Rich


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## JettaT (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (rocco2.0gtiLondon)*

Looks good Eddie. Todd does great work for sure.


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## wootwoot (Sep 21, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (JettaT)*

yikes!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (wootwoot)*

awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Us2bA4dr)*

sick man. very very sick. 
no street for this beast


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (turbojeta3)*

That exhaust definety RULES! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Angular)*

Thats actually a big thing in Japan.I think it looks cool as sh!t.I actually did the same thing on a front mount for a 84 300z I did recently.

_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_Looks good. Can't wait to see what it puts down on dyno.
If you want real clean super-tight bends on that tubing, you can get those stainless 360 degree "donuts" and cut out the angle you need (instead of welding the wedged shape pieces together).
http://chassisshop.com/pdf/tubing.pdf


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (KOOTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KOOTER* »_Thats actually a big thing in Japan.I think it looks cool as sh!t.I actually did the same thing on a front mount for a 84 300z I did recently.


yeah you can get some pretty crazy bends and shapes all the while keeping the same diameter http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (KOOTER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KOOTER* »_Thats actually a big thing in Japan.I think it looks cool as sh!t.I actually did the same thing on a front mount for a 84 300z I did recently.


No foolin'.







Those wacky Japanese!


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## nycvr6 (May 4, 1999)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Us2bA4dr)*

Looks real nice. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dbernhoft (Apr 15, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (nycvr6)*

i drove the thing its wicked slow...


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## 89_16v (Apr 25, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (dbernhoft)*

dooood!
i im'd you and emailed you.... i'd love to talk 16vT over the msn....
i dont think u live too far from me, i'd love to come and check your car out ... get some ideas!
im almost ready to assemble my 16vT.... engine is coming together tomorrow


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## cnbrown (May 31, 2001)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (89_16v)*

What is that on the second bend of the downpipe? Chocolate?















My only hesitation of making things from wedges is not having a pipe rotisserie to weld the whole thing up. doing it by hand would mean HOURS in one bend...


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## CTIGUY (Aug 13, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Us2bA4dr)*

Thats awsome....






















Very nice.What type of power are you expecting..?
anyway...gr8 work

cheers
CTIGUY


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## xXx TURBO (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (CTIGUY)*

Looks Fing sick, it's a shame to wrap that beautiful DP







what happened the tial wastegate?
seeing these pics almost makes me wanan finish my car







not really


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## J Dubya (Oct 26, 2001)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (xXx TURBO)*

Just what I like to see.....all business!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (J Dubya)*

looks sick, so do the tons of pieces of bends, but i would prefer to use a donut, none the less very nice setup


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## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (D Wiz)*

ummm wow!! Really nice welding and fab work!!!!!
can't wait to see some numbers out of it


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## 155VERT83 (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Us2bA4dr)*

Clean install. Looks all business. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Ghetto-8v (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (155VERT83)*

Exhuast http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TCASON (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Angular)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
No foolin'.







Those wacky Japanese!








 They have found out that this will generate better air flow, by having a broken surface on a corner, it will keep the air flowing in a more uniform stream, on a smooth corner surface, the air is pulled down on to it, more or less choking the air flow and slowing it down, if anyone knows how an air knife works you will understand the concept. the other reason I go thru all this trouble is no one else does it and I do like the way I can manipulate the pipe, and it does look INSANE when done right!


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## vwtuning (Jul 17, 2002)

Wow. That setup gives me wood







Good stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (TCASON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TCASON* »_They have found out that this will generate better air flow, by having a broken surface on a corner, it will keep the air flowing in a more uniform stream, on a smooth corner surface, the air is pulled down on to it, more or less choking the air flow and slowing it down, if anyone knows how an air knife works you will understand the concept. the other reason I go thru all this trouble is no one else does it and I do like the way I can manipulate the pipe, and it does look INSANE when done right!









Thanks for the explanation. Still a difficult concept to grasp, though, as rough surfaces tend to generate turbulence.


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## vfarren (Sep 11, 2000)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Angular)*

It does seem to contradict all the supposed stuff that gets thrown around when discussing polishing ports and headwork doesn't it









_Quote, originally posted by *Angular* »_
Thanks for the explanation. Still a difficult concept to grasp, though, as rough surfaces tend to generate turbulence.


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## TCASON (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (vfarren)*

It is hard to grasp, but when you have head work done your not looking for a completely smooth surface as much as you are looking to open up the ports to get more air\ fuel in and out, any good port job will leave swirl marks to generate turbulance for good air\fuel mixture. as for having a broken surface on a inside corner, there does not need to be a big obstruction, just enough to keep it from being a totaly smooth surface, my joints rarely have anything more then the cut on the joint it self to achieve this, it is still a realitively smooth surface, just no totatly smooth, I hope this helps explain it a little better, it does not require very much to keep the air from being pulled down on to a smooth corner surface. This was somthing I found out about after I was already doing my systems this way, just turned out to be an added benefit


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## K.I.M. (May 19, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (vfarren)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vfarren* »_It does seem to contradict all the supposed stuff that gets thrown around when discussing polishing ports and headwork doesn't it










except when you consider multi-angle valve jobs as opposed to a simple radius.


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## 1.9..16vTurbo (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (K.I.M.)*




































That's so sexy and i don't know why. I love it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TAI-VW boosted Dubs (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (1.9..16vTurbo)*

That is awesome work......especially when it is designed and built for pure function,but is still







BLING BLINGING







all over the place.........you have to get miniature plaques made with your name etched on them,and weld them to your piping as your signature!







I am a amateur welder and know that sh*t ain't easy to make.......if you guys were running 11's with a 8V I am skerred to see what will be next!!


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*

Im going to start making headers with the pie'd angle bends http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif NOT!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif This is a Vortex myth in the making


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## TCASON (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Bad Habit)*

I never stated I was doing this for headers, nor would I, I only do this on intakes, down-pipes and futher down if I choose to, I am not trying to say this is what every one should be doing, every one has there own style, or perfered method, this is mine. I don't care much for log style exhaust manis, but they do function, not that great, but they do function, and anybody can make one, my tubular exhaust manis are put together with large sections, not pie cut pc's, that would be near impossible to weld out. I also never stated where I know the added benefits are when doing this, just why.


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## JettaT (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (TCASON)*

Well Todd I like the way it looks and your work speaks for itself. TOP NOTCH!!


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Bad Habit)*

after doing a search of bad habit's old posts and so forth, i am not gonna leave a smart ass comment here...looks as if he has had an issue with todd's welding and designs for a while..
todd's work speaks for itself..it has more than impressed me as well as others who i would consider high profile...
boils down to whatever you are comfortable in doing, if you want to use mandrel donuts..so be it...if you want ot use 10 degree slices..so be it...i have used both now on my motors, and i actually prefer the slice method due to the bends and shapes you can get out of them and still maintain a true diameter all the way through...
his method works for me, seems to handle the power so far, we'll really see when we hit the dyno this saturday...and over winter time, maybe we'll pretty it up a bit to show it off a lil bit more...
other than that, there is always gonna be someone who dis-agrees with the way someone does things, just those who voice it out, seem to have something to prove..i have yet to see a person who i would consider a typical "vortex ****-talker" to actually prove themselves...seems to be all talk and no walk...
but then again, this is just my opinion in a public forum,.......


_Modified by Us2bA4dr at 10:21 PM 8-19-2004_


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Us2bA4dr)*

Im not here to bad mouth anyone and the work that has been done to the car in this thread is most excellent indeed i was just commenting on the pie'ing of tubes and how i disagree that they flow better.To be honest i dont think there is much of a gain either way you do it.I have not any allies,friends or popularity for that matter so im not out to prove anything 


_Modified by Bad Habit at 7:42 AM 8-20-2004_


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## K.I.M. (May 19, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_To be honest i dont think there is much of a gain either way you do it.

So don't rag on the dudes work.
Motor looks great, can't wait to see some #'s!


_Modified by K.I.M. at 6:48 PM 8-20-2004_


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## hotcorrado169 (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (K.I.M.)*

i am not trying to prove anyone right or wrong, but i never gave any thought about the subject until he explained it. If it means anything, has anyone ever noticed the dimples in a golf ball







? there is a reason for them. without going into an engineeres explanation, they make the ball go farther. just my .02


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## vr6ofpain (Feb 5, 2004)

on a cold winter day you could unwrap these and use them for a passenger side heater!! nice


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (K.I.M.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *K.I.M.* »_
So don't rag on the dudes work.
Motor looks great, can't wait to see some #'s!

_Modified by K.I.M. at 6:48 PM 8-20-2004_

Are you guys psycho or something?I never said one thing negative about the car


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## Angular (Mar 12, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_To be honest i dont think there is much of a gain either way you do it.

I'd be inclined to agree with that statement, that you won't see very large differences in flow either way. Of course I would certainly like to see some exhaustive analysis and testing done to show exactly what the improvement in flow is, even if it is fairly small.
Interesting point someone made about the dimples on a golf ball, also.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

wow i hope i don't have to do my downpipe that way (not ragging) 

but mine is supposed to be a street car... i've got a precision sc61 tucked up high against the firewall, compressor on the passenger side... but a bigass equal length manifold in there so hopefully there is somewhere good to put the downpipe when its all said and done. :-/


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

yeah, we had to do the downpipe that way due to the atp manifold...we have a tubilar style manny in the works that will place the turbo up higher allowing more room for a downpipe...this works for me now though as it is just a race car now...


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

>>Interesting point someone made about the dimples on a golf ball, also.<<
Until someone else comes along and says that the dimples are there to provide a better striking surface.


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

heres my setup as is... 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1517893
not sure on downpipe room yet.


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

you should have plenty of clearence witht the turbo that high, that's where the turbo will sit with my new manni http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (Us2bA4dr)*

and this should explain the golf ball theory








http://kingfish.coastal.edu/ph....html


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

good to here us2... my girlfriend wouldn't much approve for her footroom being obstructed by hot pipes. 
and i'd rather not totally hack the wirewall so i can put it back to stock one day (ya right but i'll keep telling myself that) 
Us2 the only note i have... on that mani is... The flange odvously can't be any closer to the head... turbo will hit. 
that said... the motor has to get tipped forward for the exhaust manifold studs to clear the flange. So every time you wanna take it in or out the front motor mount has to come out (possibly the subframe) 
another FIY for whatever its worth the turbo probably could be an inch higher then it is on mine. That was just simple for mock up purposes... straight out from the head flange.


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## TCASON (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

I like that design, I like the way you take the center two ports and go over the outer two, looks like a better flow coming out of the head, very nice.







and when Eddies firewall & floor board had holes cut into them, they were done in a way so we could close them back up without to many problems.










_Modified by TCASON at 3:56 AM 8-21-2004_


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## Hardcore VW (Oct 9, 2001)

*Re: (Us2bA4dr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Us2bA4dr* »_and this should explain the golf ball theory








http://kingfish.coastal.edu/ph....html

cool link,thanks


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (vfarren)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vfarren* »_It does seem to contradict all the supposed stuff that gets thrown around when discussing polishing ports and headwork doesn't it










I have no knowledge as to the effectiveness of the cut and weld radius's on the pressure and exhaust pipes, but the fabrication work is very nice. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for the facts about cylinder head airflow...Polishing is a myth, it absolutely ruins air flow when performed to the intake side of a cylinder head. It is also not ideal for the exhaust ports although it has less of a negative effect. 
Step Porting has been proven, beyond any question to offer the best form of air flow in a cylinder head port which we replicate in every head we build. Perhaps the cut & weld corners provide a similar effect to the air flow...in theory it makes sense...I may have to try this on something to see what the real world effect is...neat stuff, nice project. 
-Rich


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (eiprich)*

well,the reason a cylinder head being rough on the intake side is to atomize fuel more effectively,exhaust sides can be smooth polished.The guy that does our heads at the shop worked for Roger Penske for many years doing the heads on Rusty Wallace's car.He will actually put venturi on the intake side and put some veins in as well.He wont give up much info,but i scan as much as possible


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## eiprich (Mar 4, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_well,the reason a cylinder head being rough on the intake side is to atomize fuel more effectively

That is not correct as it applies to most modern cylinder heads. Perhaps on a carbureted short runner head, with a square 1" long port, this may be a benefit or even critical but thats not what I was referring to. 
The primary reason for using a step design, or a course lateral grain in the port tube is to form the correct air flow layers that work to greatly improve the velocity and the overall volume of air that the port is able to move.

_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_,exhaust sides can be smooth polished.The guy that does our heads at the shop worked for Roger Penske for many years doing the heads on Rusty Wallace's car.He will actually put venturi on the intake side and put some veins in as well.He wont give up much info,but i scan as much as possible

Sure you can make the exhaust side smoother but polishing is not the ideal finish for the exhaust ports either. 
It is very standard to use various shapes and funnels on the intake ports to replicate different intake manifold designs and runner lengths. Some mold forms from clay, and others use wood, I prefer aluminum whenever practical. 
-Rich


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (eiprich)*

Love the exhaust
"Well, We could just push back the fire wall a tick and see what kind of clea..."
"...Screw that, grab me the sawsall"
"...suppose that would work as well"


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## TCASON (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (Pagano)*

I wish I could have gone under the car instead of thru the firewall, but we only had three day's to get Eddie's car back to him so he could try and make it to Water Wagens, and with the bigger turbo and that mani, there was only one other opption, go thru the hood, TRACTOR PULL style! I diddn't think Eddie would have liked coming in to pick up his car with pipes sticking straight up thru the hood







when I get his tubular exhaust mani finished, I will patch up the holes, unless he wants to leave them for a passenger to do a little FLINSTONE action


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (TCASON)*

Good job Eddie and Todd, everything looks top notch, can't wait to see your dyno numbers. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

"I diddn't think Eddie would have liked coming in to pick up his car with pipes sticking straight up thru the hood " 
hey that could be cool. Put a semi truck flapper on top of there though! lol.


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## asinryan (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*

love the car man....i really like how u have the dp set up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

u have any videos of the car back with the older engine?


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (ALLMOTORtt20)*

just pu tthe 3 step modul ein...gotta love that sound!!!!
diale dit in pretty good on the dyno yesterday, used a buddies mustang dyno...great for tuning, but i could not keep the wheels on it..was smokin the tires at 14psi and the rpm's would go from bout 4k to 8k in a blink of an eye...i am gonna throw it on the dnojet this week and get some final #'s..i just wante dto make sure we had a good fuel/timing curve set-up before upping the boost....
the only video i got is this one...
http://www.epitomewerks.com/vids/spool.wmv


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (Us2bA4dr)*

Sounds nice,i imagine the 16V sounds much better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TCASON (Mar 20, 2004)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (TAI-VW boosted Dubs)*

I already have a signature series sticker on the intake mani







and and thank you for your comments on the piping, is does take awhile to weld it out, but it's something I like to do.


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: couple new 16vt pics... (TCASON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TCASON* »_ and thank you for your comments on the piping, is does take awhile to weld it out, but it's something I like to do.









and it shows http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## asinryan (Jul 3, 2003)

*Re: (Us2bA4dr)*

looks crazy without the hood







....are u still running all the glass?


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## turbojeta3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: (ALLMOTORtt20)*

you still running the 8v bottom end with the 8.5:1 compression?


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (turbojeta3)*

runnin a full 9a 16v motor...9.1 c/r
all glass is there exxcept the rear quarters, and that is'nt for weight reduction, that is for when i did the 2 door, i wanted a one piece rear, and that was the only way to do it...
next year, i will try and lighten it up a bit more, full lexan and so forth...


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: (Us2bA4dr)*

Have you got that thing on the scale?


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## Sc'd_Thumper (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: (veedub11)*

yeah he goes around 215...


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## Us2bA4dr (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (Sc'd_Thumper)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sc’d_Thumper* »_yeah he goes around 215...









whatever former fatty.....
car weighs 2250 with 4 gallons of gas....2450 with me in it, or at last i weighed it..prolly weighs like 2465 now


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

*Re: (Us2bA4dr)*

Yea, but its still sweet as hell.........What did you do w/your old motor? I need one!!!!!


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## PBWB (Sep 12, 2004)

still waitin for numbers though..........nice fab work, kinda makes me wish I was in WA.


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