# 8v 2.0L turbo help!



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

*8v 1.8L turbo help!*

Trying to build an 8v 1.8L turbo. Just have a couple of questions I need help with. First off, Im looking to get a T3/T04 Setup with internal wastegate and I wanna make about 300whp. I have that all taken care of though. What are my options and what do I need as far as fuel system and injectors?? Also, what are some suggestions for software, and the MAF?? The car is obviously CIS and I wish to eliminate that completely. Any help/constructed criticism welcome!!!

The car is a 1986 GTI with a 1.8L 8v motor for the record.

:beer:


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Uhm... 2.0 8v with CIS? Am I missing something?


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*FV-QR*

hmm 86 gti 8v, should be a 1.8L unless you swapped the 2L aba block in


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

hahahaha its 1.8L for sure, i feel like an idiot. Any suggestions???


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*FV-QR*

for proper fuel and spark you could go with Audi 10vT CIS parts (not ideal and hard to find at this point in time) Corrado G60 Digi1 with a chip (not a bad way to go) Mk3 2.0L parts with a chip (probably easier than getting a digi1 chip from SNSTuning) or some form of standalone ecu such as megasquirt


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

Not saying 300 wheel isn't unobtainable with a counter-flow, as I'm sure it's been done.
But if I were in your shoes I'd definitely ABA swap from a Mk3 and go megasquirt. :beer:


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah I was definitely thinking about going with the megasquirt 2 setup, for ignition and fuel. And the ABA swap does sound nice, im just trying to work with what I have and save as much money as possible but at the same time I wanna do it the right way and have a solid and reliable setup. Thank you guys for your input.


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

gotech mfi-x easiest sem out there


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

how reliable is the gotech system, and is it relatively simple and DIY friendly, since ive never heard of it? whats the pricing like also?


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

how reliable is the gotech system, and is it relatively simple and DIY friendly, since ive never heard of it? whats the pricing like also?


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ZWaters10 said:


> how reliable is the gotech system, and is it relatively simple and DIY friendly, since ive never heard of it? whats the pricing like also?


It's more than twice the price of a prebuilt MS2 with a harness from DIYAutotune.


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

its 500 its only a few wires the injector out signal the hall in signal the coolant temp 
the air temp is built into the unit along with the map 
I piss on ms2


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

is the system reliable for you? any kind of problems?


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

very reliable Its my daily


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks for the info man, ill look into it more. :beer:


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Angrygilmore said:


> its 500 its only a few wires the injector out signal the hall in signal the coolant temp
> the air temp is built into the unit along with the map
> I piss on ms2


That's all very well but the MFI-X has fewer features and less I/O than even an MS1 V2.2! ( about $325 with a harness )

Biggest problem I see is that it comes standard with only a 1.5bar MAP sensor. That means you are limited to ~7.5psi of boost, never gonna see 300hp there! All MS units come with a 2.5bar MAP standard (~21psi)

Nor does Go-tech's tuning software have an AutoTune feature. Tuner Studio MS ( the preferrred software for MS) has an OUTSTANDING autotune. 

Last but not least how's the customer support? The company is in New Zealand, RMAs must really suck!


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

hahahah thanks for breaking it down for me. Was probably going with MS anyways, its seem to be supported way better, and theres something i really like about building it myself/the many options you have for tuning. 7 psi isnt working out for me, i looking for more like 15-18. Id just swap a stock 1.8T at that point, probably for the same amount of money. You guys are alot of help, much appreciated.


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

It comes with a 2.5 bar map the 3.5 is optional


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

Im sorry its a 1.5+/- which is 1.5 bar = 21.7556607 pounds per square inch
Its 3 bar sensitivity I have the 1.5 bar in mine and the owner Jovan said its good to 20 psi
Also the customer support was awesome Jovan lives in Florida. You could run the gotech with a wideband in closed loop and call it auto tune too But that isnt real tuning. I run 2 step on the launch control with the mfi-x I personally hate megasquirt. You get what you pay for.


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Thanks man.


----------



## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

If you're looking to save money, you can keep the cis system. Stock will be able to get you around 200hp / 160whp. You could grab the turbo, manifold, and downpipe off a mk2 and it'd be a direct bolton.

Of course, if you're looking to get 300hp, you'll need to get creative. Folks have used a mercedes v8 cis distributor, and added injectors to the intake manifold for 2 injectors per cylinder. That'll get you the necessary fueling.

As far as ignition, I'm not sure how well the 8v knockbox will do in terms of being able to retard timing, but I believe I've read it is able to work. Otherwise, I believe there's a "purple" knockbox from audis of the era that have a less aggressive timing map for FI.

You can rig a hobbs pressure switch to trigger the WOT circuit when boost hits to pull you out of closed loop and fatten up the mixture as fit (by also manipulating cts signal).

300hp from a junkyard turbo might be a bit of a task, but you should be able to get into the mid 200's with a handful of popular junkyard turbos (saab 9000t etc). Of course, you'd also have holsets available.


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Angrygilmore said:


> Im sorry its a 1.5+/- which is 1.5 bar = 21.7556607 pounds per square inch
> Its 3 bar sensitivity I have the 1.5 bar in mine and the owner Jovan said its good to 20 psi
> Also the customer support was awesome Jovan lives in Florida. You could run the gotech with a wideband in closed loop and call it auto tune too But that isnt real tuning. I run 2 step on the launch control with the mfi-x I personally hate megasquirt. You get what you pay for.


Yes but 14.5 psi (1 bar) is used up by normal atmospheric pressure. That is how ALL MAP sensors are rated and work. 

MS can also run a wideband in closed loop but that is NOT what I mean when I say autotune. VE Analyze, which is a feature in Tuner Studio, actually corrects your fuel map ( rewrites portions of it) based on your AFR target table and your actual O2 values while driving. So to tune your fuel tables all you have to do is drive the car.

Some people do hate MS. Their business and problem. I was just trying to offer the OP a fair side by side comparison of what you get for your money. And you don't always get what you pay for.
Go buy a universal AEM standalone.... nearly 4K with a harness and the firmware is so bad the hardware (state of the art) is utterly useless. Lastly when you actually build a Megasquirt you learn a whole bunch about how your car works. I have been an ASE certified Master tech for 20 years, I have thousands of hours of training in automotive technology and MS still made me a better tech.


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ziddey said:


> If you're looking to save money, you can keep the cis system. Stock will be able to get you around 200hp / 160whp. You could grab the turbo, manifold, and downpipe off a mk2 and it'd be a direct bolton.
> 
> Of course, if you're looking to get 300hp, you'll need to get creative. Folks have used a mercedes v8 cis distributor, and added injectors to the intake manifold for 2 injectors per cylinder. That'll get you the necessary fueling.
> 
> ...


OP is looking for reliabilty, that's a bomb waiting to explode.


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Sold on the megasquirt for sure, its basically everything im looking for. On the other hand, does anybody make an aftermarket intake manifold for an 8vT setup?? I have yet to find one. If not, what kind of fabrication am I looking at with the stock one, and what are my options with throttle body? Also, Ive basically pieced together all the fuel system components i need, and my question is how do I adapt the stock CIS ports on the head to fit a fuel injector?? 

Thanks guys:beer:


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

ZWaters10 said:


> Sold on the megasquirt for sure, its basically everything im looking for. On the other hand, does anybody make an aftermarket intake manifold for an 8vT setup?? I have yet to find one. If not, what kind of fabrication am I looking at with the stock one, and what are my options with throttle body? Also, Ive basically pieced together all the fuel system components i need, and my question is how do I adapt the stock CIS ports on the head to fit a fuel injector??
> 
> Thanks guys:beer:


All you have to do for the injectors is remove the CIS bungs and install digi bungs. 

Several options for a throttle body. The easiest is probably Auto trans equipped Corrado G60 but an auto trans 16V throttle would be ok as well. I have also done N/A counterflow 8Vs on MS without a TPS and used mapdot for accel enrichment. I don't know of any aftermarket intakes for the counterflow head but you could switch to a G60 intake that was designed for boost.

BTW I have a G60 intake with auto trans throttle. $75 plus shipping would take it.


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*FV-QR*

what he said ^


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

I can get you the mfi-x for like 380 It does launch control and you can run it as a wot box too the wiring is really simple and in the 1.5 its good to 20 psi 
the 3.0 bar is no extra cost its just an option


----------



## 02vwgolf (Oct 6, 2009)

interested to see how this turns out:thumbup:


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

As soon as I get my **** squared away ill probably start up a build thread.
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP GUYS!!!:beer:


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Stuff is coming together slowly but surely, got my supertech valves, supertech springs and retainers, digibungs, valve stem seals, cylinder head is at the machine shop getting cleaned up and shaved true. the only thing is, is that im having trouble finding out what guides i need....i ordered some that claimed to be the 7mm conversion(bought valves with 7mm stems instead of 8mm), yet i measured the inner diameter with some digital calipers and found them to be 6.67mm instead of 7mm. Someone point me in the right direction with these. On the otherhand the next step is some racing cam followers and a 288 or 306 camshaft. WOOOOOOO!


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

288 is kinda up there man, there are better options. You don't wanna give away ALL your low end.
268, 270, and 276 (114 centers) are some better options.


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

ms Plus the need for a crank trigger plus having to use gm sensors and pigtails gotech is cheaper and just as good if not better


----------



## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

Why use anything with longer duration than an autotech 260 or a tt 260/268 on a turbo engine? it makes zero sense, you're going to be blowing all your potential power straight out the combustion chamber before it has a chance to make power :sly:


----------



## AJmustDIE (Dec 22, 2010)

L33t A2 said:


> Why use anything with longer duration than an autotech 260 or a tt 260/268 on a turbo engine? it makes zero sense, you're going to be blowing all your potential power straight out the combustion chamber before it has a chance to make power :sly:


Sorry, but you're wrong.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5484780-Best-CAM-for-an-ABA-turbo


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Angrygilmore said:


> ms Plus the need for a crank trigger plus having to use gm sensors and pigtails gotech is cheaper and just as good if not better


You don't NEED a crank trigger for MS, it works fine with a distributor. But it gives you the OPTION of being able to use a crank trigger so you can improve the ignition system. 

Nor does MS NEED GM sensors. I have done a dozen or more installs on a variety of different makes and models using stock sensors.


----------



## Angrygilmore (Sep 28, 2008)

Prof315 said:


> You don't NEED a crank trigger for MS, it works fine with a distributor. But it gives you the OPTION of being able to use a crank trigger so you can improve the ignition system.
> 
> Nor does MS NEED GM sensors. I have done a dozen or more installs on a variety of different makes and models using stock sensors.


well without the crank trigger it has less features than the mfi-x


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

so out of experience what do you think is all around best 268, 270, 276?


----------



## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

I run the 270 and its good but I want to go bigger.

It depends on the size of your turbo and spool characteristics, then you find a cam that will be working on the same powerband


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah i figured it would vary with different components, ill start stock and go from there, yet i still think that a 288 would be great for high rpms..everyone else apparently doesnt think so. 270 does sound pretty well balanced though.


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Build thread soon guys, keep updated on the page!


----------



## ZWaters10 (Sep 29, 2009)

Myliljettatoy said:


> I run the 270 and its good but I want to go bigger.
> 
> It depends on the size of your turbo and spool characteristics, then you find a cam that will be working on the same powerband


What size turbo you running?


----------

