# 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

As a 24v driver, I would vouch for the BDF code VR6 to be avery capable performer with an awsome driver. I have driven against 1.8ts awd/aww, mk2 jetta with 12v VR6 swap, R32 ,civic si,integra gsr,early civic hatch with built b18 and lancer EVO 8 (on freeway, very close),kept up with WRX and STI up hill battle between 2nd & 3rd gear. I have even driven some of those kind of cars and for the money, I like my VR6. I just wanabe different than all those 1.8 tunners that belive they can have the potential out of a smaller motor. The VR6 is capable of waaayyy more if taken to the extreme. Everyone should know --- there's no replacement for displacement


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ As a 24v driver, I would vouch for the BDF code VR6 to be avery capable performer with an awsome driver. I have driven against 1.8ts awd/aww, mk2 jetta with 12v VR6 swap, R32 ,civic si,integra gsr,early civic hatch with built b18 and lancer EVO 8 (on freeway, very close),kept up with WRX and STI up hill battle between 2nd & 3rd gear. I have even driven some of those kind of cars and for the money, I like my VR6. I just wanabe different than all those 1.8 tunners that belive they can have the potential out of a smaller motor. The VR6 is capable of waaayyy more if taken to the extreme. Everyone should know --- there's no replacement for displacement

I battled it out with a couple 24v VR6's at the drag strip. My lowly 12v won every time by about 0.2 seconds. Although the 12v cars have the distinct advantage of better gearing for the 1/4 mile: I only had to shift into 3rd gear while my competition had to shift into 4th.
Aside from that, the 24v has so much more torque. I love it every time I take a ride in my buddy's 03 gti. The 12v has that old school exhaust rumble though which is soooo nice. Wish you could get the sound of the 12v with the power of the 24v.
My times were all around 15.1 seconds stock while the competition was around 15.3.



_Modified by phatvw at 11:49 PM 1-30-2006_


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## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (phatvw)*

I bet my 24v wouldnt lose.







hehe


_Modified by TexasCorrado at 9:24 AM 1-31-2006_


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## uKNOwhoIiz (Jan 16, 2006)

that evo8 must have been pretty broken if it was close... i mean, i dont know what you have done to your car.. without FI, i doubt you'd be close to a stock evo 8 unless you were in some super high elevation.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (uKNOwhoIiz)*

no, hes right, i kept up with an evo 8 that runs consistent 12.8s on the highway. We started out at 60 and punched it and he never got a car on me, although he did pull in front by a little bit. We have better top end speed. But i dont have a chip


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## hiatussk8rs (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (R28buddy)*

i took my car to the track for the first time last weekend i sucked at my reaction time and at that track no one could hook up i was running 14.8 ( corrected since its a high alttitude track etc etc)all day and night. I always had to hit 4th gear which sucked.


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## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (hiatussk8rs)*

What mods do you have?


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## cosmosis (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: (VR6JettaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6JettaGLI* »_no, hes right, i kept up with an evo 8 that runs consistent 12.8s on the highway. We started out at 60 and punched it and he never got a car on me, although he did pull in front by a little bit. We have better top end speed. But i dont have a chip









Props on your et, but you're the exception to the rule. In a big way. Most of the guys in here are lucky to run a 14.9. Seriously. Congrats on that 13.9. Nice run. What was your trap and what are your mods?

-T-


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## hiatussk8rs (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (TexasCorrado)*

Giac chip, full custom cat-back, vf- motor mounts, bf goodrich g forces kdw2, kw coilovers, ditched the Intake a long time ago















cant wait to see what my times would be with my turbo


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## hiatussk8rs (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (cosmosis)*

yeah i wish i can get that time here in Cali we have some really crappppy tracks. Non r prep. correctly, and they are at high altitudes like the one in palmdale with dirt and crappp on the track





















i wish i could drag and practice at English town


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (hiatussk8rs)*

I raced a chipped new GLI Jetta and beat him by a half car from a roll (30mph) he also had DSG Trany


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (VR6JettaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ As a 24v driver, I would vouch for the BDF code VR6 to be avery capable performer with an awsome driver. I have driven against 1.8ts awd/aww, mk2 jetta with 12v VR6 swap, R32 ,civic si,integra gsr,early civic hatch with built b18 and lancer EVO 8 (on freeway, very close),kept up with WRX and STI up hill battle between 2nd & 3rd gear. I have even driven some of those kind of cars and for the money, I like my VR6. I just wanabe different than all those 1.8 tunners that belive they can have the potential out of a smaller motor. The VR6 is capable of waaayyy more if taken to the extreme. Everyone should know --- there's no replacement for displacement

Hello, my name is Chris. You must be Phul Of Crapp.

_Quote, originally posted by *VR6JettaGLI* »_no, hes right, i kept up with an evo 8 that runs consistent 12.8s on the highway. We started out at 60 and punched it and he never got a car on me, although he did pull in front by a little bit. We have better top end speed. But i dont have a chip









And you are Buhl Schitter correct?


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_Hello, my name is Chris. You must be Phul Of Crapp.
And you are Buhl Schitter correct?

Bah. Anybody can beat any car on the street under uncontrolled conditions. Its meaningless. And arguing about it is like the special olympics - even if you win, you're still a retard. prove it at the track guys!


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (phatvw)*

I dont know man, I don't really like my car at the track, but from a roll on the street, I love it, it really makes difference.


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (phatvw)*

proud of your 0.2 seconds, I bet you had to fight for it


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (phatvw)*

12v is cool until the head runs out of breath


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (uKNOwhoIiz)*

WERE YOU IN THE CAR????????????
DO'NT JUDGE $H!% JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT CAR I DRIVE. MY WRX BUDDY WAS IN THE PASSENGER SEAT. ANOTHER TIME I KEPT UP WITH HISWRX AND HIS FRIENDS STI UP HILL TO GO TO IN &OUT. BURGER. BETWEEN 60-80 MPH 2ND-3RD-2ND-3RD-4TH-3RD SHIFTING THE WEIGHT ACCORDINGLY, NOT WASTEFULLY BRAKING (WHILE THEY WERE), JUST ENOUGH EXPERIENCE DRIVING HARD.

CARS CAN BE PUSHED BEYOND THEIR CAPABILITIES


_Modified by R28buddy at 1:12 AM 2-1-2006_


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_WERE YOU IN THE CAR????????????
DO'NT JUDGE $H!% JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT CAR I DRIVE. MY WRX BUDDY WAS IN THE PASSENGER SEAT. ANOTHER TIME I KEPT UP WITH HISWRX AND HIS FRIENDS STI UP HILL TO GO TO IN &OUT. BURGER. BETWEEN 60-80 MPH 2ND-3RD-2ND-3RD-4TH-3RD SHIFTING THE WEIGHT ACCORDINGLY, NOT WASTEFULLY BRAKING (WHILE THEY WERE), JUST ENOUGH EXPERIENCE DRIVING HARD.

CARS CAN BE PUSHED BEYOND THEIR CAPABILITIES

_Modified by R28buddy at 1:12 AM 2-1-2006_

STis run low to mid 13s bone stock. That puts them roughly 10 car lengths ahead of you in a 1/4, bare minimum. Unless you've got a turbo on that car you're not telling us about, you're FOS. It doesn't matter how hard you drvie a 200HP car, it's still only got 200 HP, and the STi has 50% more, along with better handling if you were in the curves.










_Modified by jeremyc74 at 7:36 AM 2-1-2006_


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

10 car lengths???
man, i raced my friends mustang the first time i went to the track and he only beat me by maybe 4. his time was 13.6, mine was 15.1
i was all stock, and my first time at the track ever
you might be right, but 10 car lengths sounds like alot


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (VR6JettaGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6JettaGLI* »_10 car lengths???
man, i raced my friends mustang the first time i went to the track and he only beat me by maybe 4. his time was 13.6, mine was 15.1
i was all stock, and my first time at the track ever
you might be right, but 10 car lengths sounds like alot

I know it sounds like a lot, but the general rule of thumb is one car lenght for every .1 second.
If the car you are racing is trapping at 105MPH, he's covering 154 ft/sec, or 15.4 ft for every .1 second. Picture a car going by at 100MPH, and count off 2 seconds, and then another car going by. That's about the differance between an STi and a typical GTi on the strip. It's a lot. If he's a full second ahead, he's at least 10 car lengths in front of you.
I ran an 11 second EVO the other night at the track







, and 2 seconds is embarrasing no matter what you're in.









The point of all that is, as I said, unless this kid has a turbo tucked under the hood, or some juice in the trunk, he's not running with an STI that knows he's racing.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_proud of your 0.2 seconds, I bet you had to fight for it


Hell yeah! I burnt the hell out of those tires practicing trying to get that time


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (phatvw)*

Bone stock w/ 1800 miles on her i took it to the track and from what i remember (i have the slips somewhere) ....
-85F
-Idling in the line of cars for 20 minutes
-full tank of gas, full interior, bone stock didnt lower the tire pressure at all they were all about 36psi
-2.2 60' low 2.2 like a 2.22 or a 2.21 somewhere around there
-15.2
-92-94mph (i forget i think it may have been 92 or 93)
Not too shabby especially being that i never drove stick before i got this car.
Unfortunatly when i had much better tires, weight reduction, better skills by far, exhaust/intake/chip i never saw the track


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (Banditt007)*

on another note i wont even get into what kind of cars i've beaten on the track-highway







all i know is this.
from a stop until about 80mph the 24v isnt that great, it starts getting better around 65mph though.
from 80mph - 125 or so it is very impressive, stats and times on paper dont do it justice IMO many cars that should have slaughtered me i have kept right near or beat or was dead even with on 80mph roll-ons.


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (Banditt007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banditt007* »_on another note i wont even get into what kind of cars i've beaten on the track-highway







all i know is this.
from a stop until about 80mph the 24v isnt that great, it starts getting better around 65mph though.
from 80mph - 125 or so it is very impressive, stats and times on paper dont do it justice IMO many cars that should have slaughtered me i have kept right near or beat or was dead even with on 80mph roll-ons.

Thank You!


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## darrenewest (Oct 28, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (VR6JettaGLI)*

I kicked the sh*t out of a minivan the other night, I think it runs mid to low 16's. It at least had a V6 in it. lol, Sti's Evo's Maybe with a 50-75 Shot of Nitrous.







(Stock 24v







)


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## Hagphish (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (darrenewest)*

Wish I was a moderator...


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## pford (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (darrenewest)*

stock GTI's are no joke







....brother


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (pford)*

I need to learn to read.
I apologize










_Modified by MeiK at 11:33 AM 2-2-2006_


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (MeiK)*

wait, who said it would beat an evo???


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## MeiK (Mar 18, 2005)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (VR6JettaGLI)*

Edited


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

NOT UPHILL. WE DID THIS $#!% INITIAL D STYLE THEY WERE PUSHING IT BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHEN TO BRAKE. I DRIVE HARD DOWN THESE MOUNTAINS I LIVE ON EVERY DAY. PLUS I HAVE BEEN DRIVING LONGER THAN THEY HAVE. SOME CARS YOU DON'T HAVE A CHANCE ON THE STRAIGHTAWAY (ESPECIALLY WITH FRONT WHEEL DRIVE) BUT SOME CARS YOU CAN COME MIGHTY CLOSE IF THE OTHER DRIVER TOTALLY SUCKS. THATS WHY QUARTER MILE DOES NOT REQUIRE MUCH SKILL OTHER THAN LAUNCHING AND QUICK SHIFTING. TOTAL BALANCE IS THE WAY IF AN STI DUMPS A BUNCH OF MONEY ON HIS CAR SURE IT WILL GO FASTER, BUT WILL HE BE ABLE TO CONTROL IT. BESIDES I NEVER SAID I PASSED HIM, I SAID I KEPT UP WITH THEM WHEN THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD PULL AWAY FROM ME UPHILL, CAR IS ONLY HALF OF IT THE OTHER HALF IS PERSONAL CAPABILITY EVEN THEY WERE AMAZED, I WAS TOO I NEVER THOUGHT I HAD A CHANCE. BUT GIVING INTO DEFEAT BEFORE YOU TRY IS HOW YOU LOSE


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## mp3mike05 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*

Dude, can you please stop typing in all caps, I can hardly read that


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## special-ed (Jun 24, 2001)

*Re: (mp3mike05)*

useless wiener wiggling


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## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: (special-ed)*

um i know i "wasnt there" but your NA car with light mods WILL NOT hang with an EVO or an STI, simple as that, they were toying with you and its as simple as that.
and the guy that said at high altitude its "possible" your completely incorrect both EVO's and STI's are turbocharged...duh...turbo cars produce significantly more power at altitude then an equally powered NA car. turbo cars lose approx 1% of power at altitude, this is because they still make their max boost so lower air pressure at altitude doesnt affect them nearly as much...in a NA car your at air pressures mercy, and you loos 3-5% of power at altitdue *per 1000 feet* so the higher you go the worse and worse he'd get beat.
like somebody said earlier the only way your gonna keep up with an EVO/STI is if you have NOS or FI end of story, you'll never convince me that your NA 24v will keep up unless its in a MK 2


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ NOT UPHILL. WE DID THIS $#!% INITIAL D STYLE THEY WERE PUSHING IT BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHEN TO BRAKE. I DRIVE HARD DOWN THESE MOUNTAINS I LIVE ON EVERY DAY. PLUS I HAVE BEEN DRIVING LONGER THAN THEY HAVE. SOME CARS YOU DON'T HAVE A CHANCE ON THE STRAIGHTAWAY (ESPECIALLY WITH FRONT WHEEL DRIVE) BUT SOME CARS YOU CAN COME MIGHTY CLOSE IF THE OTHER DRIVER TOTALLY SUCKS. THATS WHY QUARTER MILE DOES NOT REQUIRE MUCH SKILL OTHER THAN LAUNCHING AND QUICK SHIFTING. TOTAL BALANCE IS THE WAY IF AN STI DUMPS A BUNCH OF MONEY ON HIS CAR SURE IT WILL GO FASTER, BUT WILL HE BE ABLE TO CONTROL IT. BESIDES I NEVER SAID I PASSED HIM, I SAID I KEPT UP WITH THEM WHEN THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD PULL AWAY FROM ME UPHILL, CAR IS ONLY HALF OF IT THE OTHER HALF IS PERSONAL CAPABILITY EVEN THEY WERE AMAZED, I WAS TOO I NEVER THOUGHT I HAD A CHANCE. BUT GIVING INTO DEFEAT BEFORE YOU TRY IS HOW YOU LOSE

OK, now you're really full of ****. There's no way you are hanging with an AWD rally car based monster like an EVO or an Sti in a FWD GTi on serious curves, unless the other guy has absoloutly no clue whatsoever. It ain't happening. They have better brakes, more torque, more HP, and more grip, not to mention better suspension settups.
The MKVI GTI doesn't have a chance. There's no way you can get back on the gas in the curves like an AWD car can. So you're not making up time in the curves, you're loosing your ass down the straights, all that adds up to a bull **** story from you, or the other guy simply couldn't drive. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
One more thing *TURN OFF THE DAMN CAPS LOCK*!!


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## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

GTOs are ugly.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_GTOs are ugly.









I'll bet your parents are proud.


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## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

They are, cause I donot drive a GTO.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_They are, cause I donot drive a GTO. 

Do you have anything to say about the topic at hand? Or would you just like to go on about my car? Idiot.


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## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

Hahah ok troll. Has your car broken down today? Im sure it will..real soon too


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Hahah ok troll. Has your car broken down today? Im sure it will..real soon too


Yeah those LS series engines are known for breaking down.








You're changing the subject of the thread, and you're calling me a troll? Get a ****ing clue.


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## uKNOwhoIiz (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ NOT UPHILL. WE DID THIS $#!% INITIAL D STYLE THEY WERE PUSHING IT BUT THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHEN TO BRAKE. I DRIVE HARD DOWN THESE MOUNTAINS I LIVE ON EVERY DAY. PLUS I HAVE BEEN DRIVING LONGER THAN THEY HAVE. SOME CARS YOU DON'T HAVE A CHANCE ON THE STRAIGHTAWAY (ESPECIALLY WITH FRONT WHEEL DRIVE) BUT SOME CARS YOU CAN COME MIGHTY CLOSE IF THE OTHER DRIVER TOTALLY SUCKS. THATS WHY QUARTER MILE DOES NOT REQUIRE MUCH SKILL OTHER THAN LAUNCHING AND QUICK SHIFTING. TOTAL BALANCE IS THE WAY IF AN STI DUMPS A BUNCH OF MONEY ON HIS CAR SURE IT WILL GO FASTER, BUT WILL HE BE ABLE TO CONTROL IT. BESIDES I NEVER SAID I PASSED HIM, I SAID I KEPT UP WITH THEM WHEN THEY THOUGHT THEY COULD PULL AWAY FROM ME UPHILL, CAR IS ONLY HALF OF IT THE OTHER HALF IS PERSONAL CAPABILITY EVEN THEY WERE AMAZED, I WAS TOO I NEVER THOUGHT I HAD A CHANCE. BUT GIVING INTO DEFEAT BEFORE YOU TRY IS HOW YOU LOSE

so when you say you have been driving longer than them, you are saying that you are 16 1/2, and they were 16 ?


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## special-ed (Jun 24, 2001)

*Re: (uKNOwhoIiz)*

i can piss further than anyone else here any takers


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Hahah ok troll. Has your car broken down today? Im sure it will..real soon too



How many more posts before this thread is locked down? I'm guessing about 6 thanks to ****got comments like that. Get bent dude.


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## MingChow (Dec 23, 2005)

who cares if the thread gets locked? vwvortex could closedown for all i care.
vortex is just a vw tabloid.


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## platinumedVR6 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (MingChow)*

what happened to the 24v forum having useful info? everytime i come in here is a bunch of arguing and people talkin ****. kills me.


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## mp3mike05 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (special-ed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *special-ed* »_i can piss further than anyone else here any takers

i take you on, just let me drink for a few hours and i will OWNN YO"U ON THE HILLZZZ


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## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (mp3mike05)*

I can piss farther than any-of you. I can even piss on that GTO and flite if he is in the way...hahah


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_I can piss farther than any-of you. I can even piss on that GTO and flite if he is in the way...hahah

What are you a 12 year old? Damn some of the stupidity on this forum amazes me.


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

about a year or so ago this forum was filled with good info and very respectable opinions and was a forum for gentlemen for the most part. Its getting like the MKIV forum in here.
The 24v guys are like stuck in a slum here
threads about 1/4 mile times
CAI
exhaust
stupid stuff thats been covered 1000 times... and the atitude is just retarded.....


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## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

Your just upset because Im teasing you about your 13.4 quarter mile GTO (wehooo). Relax, child. 
It seems to me all you want to do on this board is object about everyones quarter-mile times and it looks like arrogance. 13.4 isnt crap.
You talk like your the " %$^& " in town.


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## special-ed (Jun 24, 2001)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*

there is too much useless chatter in here really. this is the tech forum if you want to talk about your car being faster than sti's and whatever else go to the mkIV forum where they will be impressed. if you have something *tech* related this is the place to be. otherwise get lost


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## mp3mike05 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (special-ed)*

/thread
there isn't that much more that can possibly be said about a 24v vr6 quarter mile time, it's slow get over it







I like my car because it is fun to drive, not because it is a 1/4 mile beast


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

And people wonder why I don't post updates on my car in this forum.... this forum is 99% pissant ricers.


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## mp3mike05 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_And people wonder why I don't post updates on my car in this forum.... this forum is 99% pissant ricers.

hah good times, what ever happend to 1986 gli or whoever he is, he still asking for your videos?


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Your just upset because Im teasing you about your 13.4 quarter mile GTO (wehooo). Relax, child. 
It seems to me all you want to do on this board is object about everyones quarter-mile times and it looks like arrogance. 13.4 isnt crap.
You talk like your the " %$^& " in town.


You dumb phuck. Not once did I mention my car in this thread, and I never said it was fast. YOU are the one that brought it up. I have my car in my signature just like everyone else. I just traded a 24V GTi in, and I know exactly what they run. I still come here because the BS is amusing. More than half the people on this board are in here patting each other on the back, and trying to convince themselves they have a fast car. It's BS. People spend thousand of dollars on these damn things just to get to 200whp. I couldn't count the number of exhaust threads on this damn forum, and the few people that do have fast cars that post here are drowned out by know it all, wanna-bes like you.
I'm going to break this down for you:
Without FI on a GTI you can't run with an EVO, or an STI. About 90% of the V8 Mustangs on the road will embarass your ass, and the same goes for F-bodies. 
By the time you put FI on a GTi, you've spent more than I paid for the GTO, and you'll still be hard pressed to outrun me, and I've still got a factory warranty. On top of that, you're driving around in a warmed over FWD econo-box. 
Now move along boy, you're bothern me.










_Modified by jeremyc74 at 9:47 PM 2-3-2006_


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## platinumedVR6 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

its threads like this that push more towards wanting to sell my car, and makes me realize why noone makes things for the 24v.
ridiculous.
the 24v community blows, with the exception of a few.


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## jimix (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_
You dumb phuck. Not once did I mention my car in this thread, and I never said it was fast. YOU are the one that brought it up. I have my car in my signature just like everyone else. I just traded a 24V GTi in, and I know exactly what they run. I still come here because the BS is amusing. More than half the people on this board are in here patting each other on the back, and trying to convince themselves they have a fast car. It's BS. People spend thousand of dollars on these damn things just to get to 200whp. I couldn't count the number of exhaust threads on this damn forum, and the few people that do have fast cars that post here are drowned out by know it all, wanna-bes like you.
I'm going to break this down for you:
Without FI on a GTI you can't run with an EVO, or an STI. About 90% of the V8 Mustangs on the road will embarass your ass, and the same goes for F-bodies. 
By the time you put FI on a GTi, you've spent more than I paid for the GTO, and you'll still be hard pressed to outrun me, and I've still got a factory warranty. On top of that, you're driving around in a warmed over FWD econo-box. 
Now move along boy, you're bothern me.









_Modified by jeremyc74 at 9:47 PM 2-3-2006_
 
I don't think anyone really buys a VW if they want a 1/4 mile car. That's what cheap domestics are for (read Mustang, Camaro, GTO, etc.). 
Yes, most people here are patting each other on the back. That's what nice people with common interests do. And the GTI is a fast car compared to most. It is not a muscle car, but is in no way slow. 
There is no need for name calling. Even if you can't spell.









_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_
Now move along boy, you're bothern me.










http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jimix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimix* »_ 
I don't think anyone really buys a VW if they want a 1/4 mile car. That's what cheap domestics are for (read Mustang, Camaro, GTO, etc.). 


Then why do people buy them? It's certainly not the quality. And the handling is not great, and they aren't cheap. So why the hell do people buy a GTI? I bought mine thinking it had the potential to be a fast street car. We all know that is wrong without spending a lot of cash.


_Quote, originally posted by *jimix* »_ 
Yes, most people here are patting each other on the back. That's what nice people with common interests do. And the GTI is a fast car compared to most. It is not a muscle car, but is in no way slow. 


High 15 second 1/4 miles is slow. The car is overweight, no matter how you look at it. Encouraging people is one thing, but the stuff that is posted here in a lot of threads is an out and out lie. You are not going to run with an EVO or STI at any speed, on any road without FI. NEVER EVER! Can I be any more clear about that?


_Quote, originally posted by *jimix* »_ 
There is no need for name calling. Even if you can't spell.










I didn't realize my spelling was being graded, but that's a typical attack when you have no other arguement that is valid. For example:
"You may think my car suck, but you can't spell! Na na na!"
Give me a ****ing break.
Now, why don't you read the rest of the thread, and you'll see why I'm calling him an idiot.
The guy drags my car into this thread, for no reason other than that I called BS on one of his fellow idiots. You defending him puts you in the same class. It's a 15 second car. Period. End of story. An EVO or STi will kill your ass all day long, on any road, any day of the week. If you don't like it, trade it or dump the $6-7k on a turbo.


_Modified by jeremyc74 at 1:11 AM 2-4-2006_


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## uKNOwhoIiz (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_And people wonder why I don't post updates on my car in this forum.... this forum is 99% pissant ricers.

*nods*


----------



## MingChow (Dec 23, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

jeremyc74 i feel sorry for you.


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (MingChow)*

Listen, boy. The 24 valve vr6 I own is just ONE of my cars. I didnt buy this car for 1/4 times. I purchased it because it was fun to drive. 
My mr2 turbo, thats my " fast " car and it will smoke your GTO in the quarter (12.6). So, go hang out with your domestic buddies if you having nothing to say positive about VWs. Me, I love dubs because of the way they feel and what they can look like modded.

_Modified by TexasCorrado at 9:06 AM 2-4-2006_


_Modified by TexasCorrado at 9:08 AM 2-4-2006_


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Listen, boy. The 24 valve vr6 I own is just ONE of my cars. I didnt buy this car for 1/4 times. I purchased it because it was fun to drive. 
My mr2 turbo, thats my " fast " car and it will smoke your GTO in the quarter (12.6). So, go hang out with your domestic buddies if you having nothing to say positive about VWs. Me, I love dubs because of the way they feel *and what they can look like modded.*


12.6 is nothing to get arrogant about, especially considering that your highly modified lightweight turbo is only about a half second faster than Jeremy's bone stock, overweight, normally aspirated domestic.
And as far as the end of your comment, I guess this is why I'll never get along with most VWers.


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Actually, I just have a TD06 and a few proper mods. A heavily modded mr2 can hit 11s easy.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (MingChow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MingChow* »_jeremyc74 i feel sorry for you.










Don't. My life is good. I've got nice ride, waterfront condo in South Florida, good job and a great GF that likes racing. Not a lot more I can ask for.










_Modified by jeremyc74 at 1:51 PM 2-4-2006_


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Actually, I just have a TD06 and a few proper mods. A heavily modded mr2 can hit 11s easy.

Yeah and heavily moddified GTOs hit 10s (Actually not so heavily modified, just an STS turbo). The serious F-body guys are running 8s and 9s with street cars. What the hell does that have to do with anything?
For that matter, what the hell does a GTO have to do with anything on this thread, other than for you to make a lame ass attempt at a personal attack.
This was another thread about GTI 1/4 mile times, where a bunch of people posted a bunch of BS. If you've got a normally aspariated GTI, with no nitrous, you're not running with EVOs and STi. I can't help that you don't want to accept that, but it's the truth.
If you're not worried about your 1/4 mile time then WHY THE **** are you in here arguing with me about it?
I'm glad my GTI is gone. I've never met so many lame owners in any of my other cars. The BMW guys weren't even posuers as much as a lot of people on this board are. Even if there are some ******** over on the F-Body and GTO boards, they are at least serious about performance. Most people here just want to look like they're going fast.

_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_
So, go hang out with your domestic buddies if you having nothing to say positive about VWs. 

I'm no domestic lover. My last 5 cars have been imports. Including a BMW, 240SX, a Toyota, and a Mazda. The MKIV GTi had more issues than any car I've ever owned, but I'm not in here to bash the car, I'm here becuase you people post BS, and I enjoy shooting you down.
It's always funny to see people react when someone call them on their BS, and that's exactly what you did. I don't care if you don't like it, because there's exactly nothing that you can do about it.


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

Why dont you just go away if you donot like VWs? Sounds to me you just a got lemon for a GTI and your pissed off because of it. 
Before you wet your panties, take a look at your self in the mirror and ask " why did I buy a Pontiac? ".








Oh yeah, tell your GF " Hi ". Im sure she remembers me from last night. 


_Modified by TexasCorrado at 1:35 PM 2-4-2006_


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Why dont you just go away if you donot like VWs? Sounds to me you just a got lemon for a GTI and your pissed off because of it. 
Before you wet your panties, take a look at your self in the mirror and ask " why did I buy a Pontiac? ".








*Oh yeah, tell your GF " Hi ". Im sure she remembers me from last night. * 

_Modified by TexasCorrado at 1:35 PM 2-4-2006_

That's not cool http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Why dont you just go away if you donot like VWs? Sounds to me you just a got lemon for a GTI and your pissed off because of it. 
Before you wet your panties, take a look at your self in the mirror and ask " why did I buy a Pontiac? ".









Oh yeah, tell your GF " Hi ". Im sure she remembers me from last night. 

_Modified by TexasCorrado at 1:35 PM 2-4-2006_

Man you prove how much of a tool you are with every single post. Is that really the best you can do?!?
Hmmm...let me try....Yo MAMMA








Idiot.


----------



## quick04gti (Oct 5, 2005)

Guys, Guys, Guys enough of this arguing and ***** everyone has opinions, preferences, and likes and dislikes. Me i love all cars, well most of them anyways. As for our 24v vr6's stock ive heard them hittin 15.1 and .2 but that is just second hand info i havent been to the track. And yes it is hard to make a mk4 gti 24v vr6 fast unless u have money and when i mean fast i mean that after u spend that money your only gonna be able to run with some of the fast cars that come stock out of the factory. If those cars are modded then you are back to square one. But hey we are all car guys, i love the gto (the 6.0L), hell i love little turbo cars to that are a blast to drive (mr2). No need to blow this **** out of proportion. Me instead of going any farther with my mods im gonna buy my buddies 1990 gsx with a fp green and built head for a couple g's







(can we say 400awhp) and go from there haha and my dub will be my comfortable nice soundin rollerskate haha jk Just my 2 cents.














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by quick04gti at 2:37 PM 2-4-2006_


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (quick04gti)*

I agree, everyone has their own opinion on a car, I love my car, never had any problems, went to the track maybe 5 times...you can't compare it to the STI, and high performance cars, if you do you're








Anyway, my car is by no means slow as some of the guys like to say, I surprised a lot of car I wasn't supposed to surprise, that includes V8's and other turbo cars http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I love the way it responds and how it deliver power, very smooth, I love upper range, it pulls nice... this car sucks in 1/4 mile, but still not bad








Now I need to get a hair cutcuz Im running late


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## mp3mike05 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

ok ok ok so we don't all buy gto's and other "sports" cars but there is still a reason why I like to drive my 24v
for me my parents would never let me buy a GTO because it's too fast. Sure VW's arn't track cars or fast cars, but they seem much more practical to me than other sports cars. I get "relativly" good gas milage (im not trying to start another 10page thread i swear), insurance is significantly cheaper, my jetta has 4 doors and has plenty of room to haul stuff around in. I have coilovers and granted it doesnt handle as well as an STI, it is plenty fun to throw around the corners, and it easily goes fast enough to get me in trouble with the law.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (mp3mike05)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mp3mike05* »_ok ok ok so we don't all buy gto's and other "sports" cars but there is still a reason why I like to drive my 24v
for me my parents would never let me buy a GTO because it's too fast. Sure VW's arn't track cars or fast cars, but they seem much more practical to me than other sports cars. I get "relativly" good gas milage (im not trying to start another 10page thread i swear), insurance is significantly cheaper, my jetta has 4 doors and has plenty of room to haul stuff around in. I have coilovers and granted it doesnt handle as well as an STI, it is plenty fun to throw around the corners, and it easily goes fast enough to get me in trouble with the law.


A perfectly reasonable answer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm not in here to bash the car, even though mine had quite a few issues. They are nice driving cars, and sound a hell of a lot better than a Honda with a fart can on it, or most any other sport compact for that matter. It just kills me to see some of the BS that gets posted in here. IMO if you just let it go on and don't call them on it, the problem only gets worse.
I mean a guy who's just bought the car, takes it to the track and runs 15.5. He gets some bolt ons and is running 15.0 or whatever. He then finds this forum, where people are talking about running with EVOs and STis, which are low 13 second car, and thinks WTF








A lot of people just let it ride, because they don't want to stir the **** up, but I think that's a real part of the problem in here. If I see BS posted, and I know something about the subject, I'm goint to call it. Sometime people will back off their claims, or prove me wrong, and sometimes it turns into a pissing contest like this one, with people making totally pointless personal attacks.
One thing is for sure though...the guy that just popped into this forum doesn't think that GTis are out there hanging with EVOs and STis and that something is wrong with his car.
The only thing I would disagree with you on is the insurance. Mine actually went down about $100/year going to the GTO, but there's a lot of variables taken into account for insurance rates, so that may not hold true for everyone. It's very possible there are so few GTOs on the road (Only 10k 2005s were made) at this point that the insurance companies don't have enough data on them rasie the rates. In other words I may have a rate hike coming with my next renewall.


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## quick04gti (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (mp3mike05)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mp3mike05* »_ok ok ok so we don't all buy gto's and other "sports" cars but there is still a reason why I like to drive my 24v
for me my parents would never let me buy a GTO because it's too fast. Sure VW's arn't track cars or fast cars, but they seem much more practical to me than other sports cars. I get "relativly" good gas milage (im not trying to start another 10page thread i swear), insurance is significantly cheaper, my jetta has 4 doors and has plenty of room to haul stuff around in. I have coilovers and granted it doesnt handle as well as an STI, it is plenty fun to throw around the corners, and it easily goes fast enough to get me in trouble with the law.
You know whats funny i was think bout tradin in my gti for a new gto called my insurance company for a quote and that **** was ****ing cheaper can u believe that ****


----------



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

ONCE AGAIN YOU GIVE INTO DEFEAT WITHOUT TRYING.


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (uKNOwhoIiz)*

I'M SAYING I'M 28 AND THEY ARE IN THEIR LOW 20's LATE TEENS


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## platinumedVR6 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ONCE AGAIN YOU GIVE INTO DEFEAT WITHOUT TRYING.

http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif go away.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (platinumedVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *platinumedVR6* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif go away.

Amen


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## mp3mike05 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ I'M SAYING I'M 28 AND THEY ARE IN THEIR LOW 20's LATE TEENS

if you are talking about age, you sure as hell don't sound 28


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_
I'M SAYING I'M 28 AND THEY ARE IN THEIR LOW 20's LATE TEENS

Dude... You're REALLY stupid


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## YoungRepublic (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

"STis run low to mid 13s bone stock. That puts them roughly 10 car lengths ahead of you in a 1/4, bare minimum. Unless you've got a turbo on that car you're not telling us about, you're FOS. It doesn't matter how hard you drvie a 200HP car, it's still only got 200 HP, and the STi has 50% more, along with better handling if you were in the curves."
This succession of though is bothersome to me. Sure the STI makes 100 more HP than a 24v GTI, but crank HP doesn't guarantee victory. Sure the STI will have a better ET and MPH in the quarter mile, but people underestimate the 24v too much. A stock 24v dyno's at 175 at the wheels, and with simple bolt-ons, excluding cams, will make 190 at the wheels. An STI is not only heavier, it must deal with a higher percentage of driveline loss due to the AWD setup. If you figure the STI loses roughly 20% of crank HP to the wheels, you've got a car that makes 240 at the wheels. Just simple bolt-ons on a 24v against a stock STI cuts the wheel power difference in half from the aforementioned 50%. Another factor that helps the 24v, especially during a roll, is the fact that it revs better than the STI. Gearing is a huge factor (a la American cars) in straight-line acceleration, and the ability to stay in a lowest gear possible while accelerating is important. This is why Honda's are able to compete, despite the absence of any torque. The ability to rev to 9k in certain situations allows them more time in lower gears. Many VR owners can vouch that magazine numbers mean very little in a real-life race, and that this motor will hang with things that it shouldn't.


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (YoungRepublic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YoungRepublic* »_"people underestimate the 24v too much. 

Amen brother


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (YoungRepublic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *YoungRepublic* »_"STis run low to mid 13s bone stock. That puts them roughly 10 car lengths ahead of you in a 1/4, bare minimum. Unless you've got a turbo on that car you're not telling us about, you're FOS. It doesn't matter how hard you drvie a 200HP car, it's still only got 200 HP, and the STi has 50% more, along with better handling if you were in the curves."
This succession of though is bothersome to me. Sure the STI makes 100 more HP than a 24v GTI, but crank HP doesn't guarantee victory. Sure the STI will have a better ET and MPH in the quarter mile, but people underestimate the 24v too much. A stock 24v dyno's at 175 at the wheels, and with simple bolt-ons, excluding cams, will make 190 at the wheels. An STI is not only heavier, it must deal with a higher percentage of driveline loss due to the AWD setup. If you figure the STI loses roughly 20% of crank HP to the wheels, you've got a car that makes 240 at the wheels. Just simple bolt-ons on a 24v against a stock STI cuts the wheel power difference in half from the aforementioned 50%. Another factor that helps the 24v, especially during a roll, is the fact that it revs better than the STI. Gearing is a huge factor (a la American cars) in straight-line acceleration, and the ability to stay in a lowest gear possible while accelerating is important. This is why Honda's are able to compete, despite the absence of any torque. The ability to rev to 9k in certain situations allows them more time in lower gears. Many VR owners can vouch that magazine numbers mean very little in a real-life race, and that this motor will hang with things that it shouldn't. 

Listen, all the numbers you are quoting may be right on, but that does not change the fact that STis and EVOs run low 13 second 1/4 miles, bone stock, and a GTi even with mods won't get into the 13s. You can do all the bench racing you would like, but on the street and on the track it's all pointless. I'm there almost every week, and there isn't a single VR6 I would even consider a threat. EVOs and STis are a completely differant ballgame. They're fast stock, and when modded they are downright dangerous. You're going to get your ass handed to you EVERY SINGLE TIME, unless the other guy screws up, in which case, you outran the driver, not the car. There is no way a GTi will run with those cars without forced induction, and even then it's questionable on street tires. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

Unfortunately Beavis is correct.


----------



## jimix (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_
You can do all the bench racing you would like, but on the street and on the track it's all pointless. I'm there almost every week, and there isn't a single VR6 I would even consider a threat. ... 

what about this one??? 
http://www.europeancarweb.com/tuned/0401ec_vwgolf/
...of course you're going to say that an evo or sti with that much modding would go faster than the space shuttle. But this VR would hand your car it's ass in a basket.








IIRC Top Gear or Top Speed (whatever it's called) ran tests on the STi and R32 and the times were less than one second different on their track. That's close enough to make it a driver's race if you ask me. 
Also, if your going to talk about the fastest Subaru and fastest Mitsubishi, then you should compare them to the fastest VW (which is the R32). Fair is fair. 
That said, my VR6 is no drag racer. I consider it fast because it is faster than 95% of cars on the road and it will also haul a hell of a lot of stuff in the hatch.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jimix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimix* »_
what about this one??? 
http://www.europeancarweb.com/tuned/0401ec_vwgolf/
...of course you're going to say that an evo or sti with that much modding would go faster than the space shuttle. But this VR would hand your car it's ass in a basket.








IIRC Top Gear or Top Speed (whatever it's called) ran tests on the STi and R32 and the times were less than one second different on their track. That's close enough to make it a driver's race if you ask me. 
Also, if your going to talk about the fastest Subaru and fastest Mitsubishi, then you should compare them to the fastest VW (which is the R32). Fair is fair. 
That said, my VR6 is no drag racer. I consider it fast because it is faster than 95% of cars on the road and it will also haul a hell of a lot of stuff in the hatch. 

Try to follow along please. I didn't compare the GTi to the EVO, or STI. I responded to a poster who said he was hanging with them, which he wasn't.
That Turbo VR6 is badass, but it ****ing well better be for the money that's tied up in it.
If you seriously think being within one second on the track makes it a drivers race, you've very obviously never raced on a track. On a drag strip, that's about 10 car lengths. On a road course, after 15 laps, you aren't even in sight.


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## jimix (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_
...
If you seriously think being within one second on the track makes it a drivers race, you've very obviously never raced on a track. On a drag strip, that's about 10 car lengths. On a road course, after 15 laps, you aren't even in sight.









That was not a drag strip but a test track. I don't remember the exact lenght but it is much longer than 0.25 miles and it has turns. 
1/4 mile times don't really tell the true nature of most German cars since they are made to perform well at high speeds, not necessarily get there fast.
I believe that the guy may have hung with an STI or EVO. The driver of the other car could have been retarded for all we know, and to insist that it didn't happen is narrow-minded. 
I'm not saying the 24v is the end-all fast car. I don't think anyone here is. 


_Modified by jimix at 3:30 PM 2-9-2006_


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jimix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimix* »_

I believe that the guy may have hung with an STI or EVO. The driver of the other car could have been retarded for all we know, and to insist that it didn't happen is narrow-minded. 


And to continue to insist that it's possible, in the face of undisputable evidence is absurdly optomistic. The guy is full of ****, or the other car wasn't even trying.


_Modified by jeremyc74 at 9:51 PM 2-9-2006_


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## YoungRepublic (Jun 29, 2005)

I think the original poster is basing his ideas on racing from rolls, rather than racing from a dig. There is no question that Evo's and STI's are much faster from a stop, as are R32's. When going from a roll it's a much different story from my experience. I'm not claiming victory against these cars, because I don't race all that often and I don't go to the strip. Yet, at the same time, my little 200hp GTI keeps up with those 300hp cars more than it should. If you want to make a better comparison between the Japanese cars, the R32 is in the same ballpark, but aimed at a different audience.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_
Listen, all the numbers you are quoting may be right on, but that does not change the fact that STis and EVOs run low 13 second 1/4 miles, bone stock, and a GTi even with mods won't get into the 13s. 

You always seem to compare 1/4 mile times....here's a little comparison between 1/4 mile run and rolling run( or however you want to call it)
I personally never raced STI from a roll but I did race an R32 that had the same mods as I do, Chip, CAI, Exhaust...that R32 was running low 14's at our track, that's well into 13's at sea level....at the same track I was running 15.5's but when we raced from a roll (80mph) he was barely pulling on me, it was like inch by inch, plus I had a passenger that weights 230lb. and I weight 210lbs....he was alone in the car...so If I was alone in the car Im sure I would've pulled on him.
This is just to make my point between awd vs. fwd at the track (1/4mile) and from a roll.....so stock STI will probably run around same times as this R32...and I don't see any reason why STI would murder our cars from a roll...it will probably win but not by much


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
You always seem to compare 1/4 mile times....here's a little comparison between 1/4 mile run and rolling run( or however you want to call it)
I personally never raced STI from a roll but I did race an R32 that had the same mods as I do, Chip, CAI, Exhaust...that R32 was running low 14's at our track, that's well into 13's at sea level....at the same track I was running 15.5's but when we raced from a roll (80mph) he was barely pulling on me, it was like inch by inch, plus I had a passenger that weights 230lb. and I weight 210lbs....he was alone in the car...so If I was alone in the car Im sure I would've pulled on him.
This is just to make my point between awd vs. fwd at the track (1/4mile) and from a roll.....so stock STI will probably run around same times as this R32...and I don't see any reason why STI would murder our cars from a roll...it will probably win but not by much


First of all the title of the thread is *1/4 MILE TIME FOR A GTI*!!!!!
You don't run the 1/4 mile from a roll. 
Second, an R32 won't run with an EVO or STI. It's at least half a second off through the 1/4, which is going to translate to about 5 car lengths. If that's a close race in your opinion, then you have serious issues.







You are trapping ~92-93, they are trapping well over 100MPH.
I'll say this one more time.....from a roll, in the curves, on a straight line, or on the strip, an STi or an EVO is going to hand you your ass on a platter unless you have F/I on the car.
I've ran these cars a lot. In a 1/4 mile run right now they are a handful for my car, even though I'm trapping 107MPH. On the highway, I can walk them by about 2 cars from 85 to 130. A GTI is completely outclassed against those cars, no matter what you would like to think.
If you want to prove me wrong, go out an run one, and video it. I race them all the time, and I know exactly what they'll do. Just a little tip though, if you want to save yourself some embarassment, don't bring your girl along for the ride.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

You silly VW heads say some crazy schitt.
I've got one of the fastest 24V MKIV GTIs around, I race it in the 1/4 mile, from a roll, and through twisties. I built my car myself, in my garage, with my tools, and my two hands. I CAN'T BEAT A MILDLY MODDED STI. I can BARELY beat a stock STI. You guys can talk "driveline loss" and "better gearing" all you want but the fact is, in the real world STIs are not just faster, they are WAYYY faster than 24V GTIs. It doesn't matter if you race from a dig, from a roll, around some curves. wherever you want to race, an STI will hand you your ass. The driveline loss is bullschitt by the way. STIs lose about 20%, while we lose about 15%. Do the math, they lose 5% more power to the wheels, but make 50% more crank hp to start with. 
R32s will beat a 24V in EVERY race as well.
(Jeremy's full of crap though, I've walked more than one GTO in my outclassed 24V














)


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## quick04gti (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

I agree that sti's are faster but drive train loss in sti is huge i read a whole article about it. It was one of those cars built for a magazine it had a full turboback, front mount, and ECUteck tuned by one of their pros and it only put down 275awhp with that setup. They were explaing how tempermental it gets when it comes to basic boltons. As for R32s i raced two of them one stock while i had just my chip and i pulled two cars on him from a 60 roll. and another one that had a chip and it was neck and neck with just mine being chipped from a roll again. I dont phuck with them from a stop haha

















_Modified by quick04gti at 1:17 PM 2-11-2006_


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
R32s will beat a 24V in EVERY race as well.
(Jeremy's full of crap though, I've walked more than one GTO in my outclassed 24V














)

Guy that I raced is here on vortex and there was a tread about it in R32 forum with him confirming the race, just in case you think I talk BS, as you usually think I do


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
(Jeremy's full of crap though, I've walked more than one GTO in my outclassed 24V














)


Well, I pushed a VR6T once, so I guess it goes both ways.















I think you must have jumped on an 04 GTO...they were missing about 50HP. I'd drive over there so we could find out, but with my swiss cheesed air box, I'm afraid I'd take on water in the deeper parts


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_

Well, I pushed a VR6T once, so I guess it goes both ways.















I think you must have jumped on an 04 GTO...they were missing about 50HP. I'd drive over there so we could find out, but with my swiss cheesed air box, I'm afraid I'd take on water in the deeper parts
















I've raced (and beat) both but I wil say the '05+s are quite a bit faster than the 04s. I bet there is actually more than a 50hp difference. The 05 was quite a bit faster than the 04. That one was actually a really close race.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
I've raced (and beat) both but I wil say the '05+s are quite a bit faster than the 04s. I bet there is actually more than a 50hp difference. The 05 was quite a bit faster than the 04. That one was actually a really close race.


Yeah the '05s are proving to be about .3-.5 seconds faster through the 1/4 stock. The suspension was revised a little after the first year, so they launch a little better.
With basic bolt ons (long tube headers) and a tune the '05s are comfortably over 400whp.
There's also a company selling completely concealed NOS kits for them that fit in the stock airbox and will support up to 150HP







They are running 11s on DOTs.


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

One of the ugliest cars on the road though, you might as well be driving a Pontiac Aztec...LOL

















_Modified by TexasCorrado at 10:27 AM 2-15-2006_


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_One of the ugliest cars on the road though, you might as well be driving a Pontiac Aztec...LOL
















_Modified by TexasCorrado at 10:27 AM 2-15-2006_


Yeah, it's much uglier from the back, which is all you'll ever see of one. Idiot.


----------



## MingChow (Dec 23, 2005)

you have a fast turd. ummm good for you. it is not like we cannot go out and buy one for ourselves. your comical and your taste in cars sucks.
jeremy what kind of education do you have?


_Modified by MingChow at 10:18 AM 2-15-2006_


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (MingChow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MingChow* »_you have a fast turd. ummm good for you. it is not like we cannot go out and buy one for ourselves. your comical and your taste in cars sucks.
jeremy what kind of education do you have?

_Modified by MingChow at 10:18 AM 2-15-2006_

Plenty. I'm a 31 year old electrical engineer and I've lived in 7 countries, including Japan, Korea, Australia, and the UAE.
You drive a slow, warmed over FWD econobox, and you're calling a a 400HP RWD car a turd? Get a ****ing clue.


----------



## platinumedVR6 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

this thread needs to be locked. enough raging on this dude for driving a GTO. cars are all about personal opinion so chill out and let the dude enjoy his GTO that would own our mk4's.


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (platinumedVR6)*

I pinched out a couple of GTOs this morning. You should have seen how fast they flew around the bowl.....


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_I pinched out a couple of GTOs this morning. You should have seen how fast they flew around the bowl.....









Do you have nothing better to do?


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

Other than pinch out GTOs? No.


----------



## MingChow (Dec 23, 2005)

31 and lurking on these boards, like a child. thanks for the laugh.


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (MingChow)*

My pleasure.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (MingChow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MingChow* »_31 and lurking on these boards, like a child. thanks for the laugh.


I get paid WELL for this http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (platinumedVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *platinumedVR6* »_this thread needs to be locked. enough raging on this dude for driving a GTO. cars are all about personal opinion so chill out and let the dude enjoy his GTO


Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I disagreed with the guy and he starts bashing my car....








This forums a little slow these days as all the exhaust and intake issues have pretty much been covered, and I still enjoy seeing what's going on, but why do so many people act like ***** on this board?


----------



## jimix (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ there's no replacement for displacement

except for rpms


----------



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

THEIR DRIVERS DON'T HAVE THE BALLS IN THE TURNS THAT THEIR CARS HAVE, I KEPT UP WITH THEM BOTTOM LINE. I DROVE ONE OF THOSE AND LOVED IT BUT COULDN'T AFFORD IT. BESIDES IT ONLY TOPS OUT AT 148MPH FOR SUCH A ''MONSTER'' IT'S NOT AN ENZO OR MCLAREN IN STOCK FORM. IT'S A CONSUMER CAR LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE. THEY EVEN TAKE THE FUN OUT OF THE R32AT TOP END.


----------



## [email protected] (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

i just got dumber reading this!!!!!


----------



## Fugee (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: (TexasCorrado)*

You my friend are a tool!!















get a life E-thug!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *TexasCorrado* »_Why dont you just go away if you donot like VWs? Sounds to me you just a got lemon for a GTI and your pissed off because of it. 
Before you wet your panties, take a look at your self in the mirror and ask " why did I buy a Pontiac? ".








Oh yeah, tell your GF " Hi ". Im sure she remembers me from last night. 

_Modified by TexasCorrado at 1:35 PM 2-4-2006_


----------



## TexasCorrado (Apr 24, 2005)

*Re: (Zwei komma acht T)*


----------



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (R28buddy)*

I'm gonna lay something else on you guys. My buddy's STI which we appear to be talking about, full turbo back exhaust (4 in.) with test pipe instead of cat ( which made his MIL come on and run s****y alot) sometimes it limited how high he could rev. It sucks spending all that cash to have it run like $#!%. Anyway he and my WRX buddy went to the sacramento track to run STI's BEST time was 13.8 - WRX's BEST was 13.9 which means all of their other times like 14s or worse. now I am not saying that mine was better, I did'nt even go that time. My best was actually 14.9 with not many bolt ons. They showed me their time slips and we could'nt help laughing. How could you f*** up 13 sec. cars so bad? I'm sorry but 13.8 is hardly 13s ( especially since I've seen cars like this do better than that. 

About my freind with the EVO, he was driving on a roasted clutch at the time so he was losing to camaros and stuff that he used to be able to beat. Anouther laugh, a few weeks ago he lost a battle with telephone pole at 45-50mph and TOTALED IT!!! he owed more than $50,000 on the car that was worth only $26,000. Gap insurance is good !!


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

^^ You're incredibly stupid


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_^^ You're incredibly stupid


Exactly. How the hell can anyone owe $50k on a car that costs $35k?








R28buddy, you are possibly one of the dumbest people I've ever encountered on a forum. The sad part is, there are still people here that will step up and defend you. Simply amazing


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*

So I notice an _old thread_ has re-appeard.

_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_I'm gonna lay something else on you guys. My buddy's STI...

Ok I've had enough ...


----------



## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

It's called s****y credit with high interest. Then again I wouldn't expect anyone to consciously spend money on a pontiac either. So back at ya with that incredibly dumb horse s**T.


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*

Man seriously, are you 28 or 18???


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_
It's called s****y credit with high interest. Then again I wouldn't expect anyone to consciously spend money on a Pontiac either. So back at ya with that incredibly dumb horse s**T.

You exemplify the very reason I am embarrassed to own a VW. I really hate getting labeled into the same category of people as you.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
You exemplify the very reason I am embarrassed to own a VW. I really hate getting labeled into the same category of people as you.

You know, some of the people on this forum left a bad taste for me about VW as well, but I've realized it's the same with almost any car you own.
The BMW boards have plenty of idiots, and with the GTO, you have to worry about being associated with the mulletheads that think anything that isn't made in the US is "foriegn junk"......right up until you remind them that a GTO is built in Austrailia.








One thing is for sure though, there's a lot more useful info available on other boards, and a hell of a lot more FAST cars. On here, there are several good posters, and a couple of fast cars, but damn you have to sort through a HUGE amount of BS to get to them.


----------



## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

I would like to state, for the record, that the point of owning a VW is the feeling you get when you drive one. That being said, 24V VR6's are very fast on the freeway. I own a 6-Spd GLI and it is surprising how few cars can keep up with it on the interstate. At 60 when you punch one of these things they go like hell. Also, I actually believe that he kept up with an STi at speed, I have kept up with EVOs before. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense:
I'm using round numbers here, but they are very close...
CAR 0-60 1/4
-----------------------
STi 4.5s 13.5s
GTi 6.5s 15.0s
-----------------------
Delta 2.0s 1.5s
hmmmmm... it would appear here that the STi launches well but is at best not gaining on the VR6 at speed. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but his story is certainly plausible. Also, if the STi had to downshift, it would dump it's boost via ADV and temporarily loose power, allowing additional opportunity for the N/A VR6, which, BTW, has very high torque and power across the entire RPM range.
On the handling topic, 4WD DOES NOT help you in the corners unless it's pouring rain or snow. I would take a 2WD car any day over a 4WD car on a road course, they are more nimble. A good example of this is the Audi A4. drive a 2WD model and a Quatro with the same engine. The 4WD car feels heavy and pushes much worse out of the corners. Come on, if 4WD out-handled 2WD in most conditions every race-car would be 4WD.
Now... why can't we all just be friends and get back to sharing information and helping each other like we're supposed to be doing and drop the petty personal attacks and whining.










_Modified by kapium at 11:43 PM 3-21-2006_


----------



## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*

4wd is king
STI's pull pretty hard on stock 24v's or even bolt on ones for that matter


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_I would like to state, for the record, that the point of owning a VW is the feeling you get when you drive one. That being said, 24V VR6's are very fast on the freeway. I own a 6-Spd GLI and it is surprising how few cars can keep up with it on the interstate. At 60 when you punch one of these things they go like hell. Also, I actually believe that he kept up with an STi at speed, I have kept up with EVOs before. If you think about it, it makes perfect sense:
I'm using round numbers here, but they are very close...
CAR 0-60 1/4
-----------------------
STi 4.5s 13.5s
GTi 6.5s 15.0s
-----------------------
Delta 2.0s 1.5s
hmmmmm... it would appear here that the STi launches well but is at best not gaining on the VR6 at speed. I'm not saying he's right or wrong, but his story is certainly plausible. Also, if the STi had to downshift, it would dump it's boost via ADV and temporarily loose power, allowing additional opportunity for the N/A VR6, which, BTW, has very high torque and power across the entire RPM range.
On the handling topic, 4WD DOES NOT help you in the corners unless it's pouring rain or snow. I would take a 2WD car any day over a 4WD car on a road course, they are more nimble. A good example of this is the Audi A4. drive a 2WD model and a Quatro with the same engine. The 4WD car feels heavy and pushes much worse out of the corners. Come on, if 4WD out-handled 2WD in most conditions every race-car would be 4WD.
Now... why can't we all just be friends and get back to sharing information and helping each other like we're supposed to be doing and drop the petty personal attacks and whining.









_Modified by kapium at 11:43 PM 3-21-2006_

Your logic is screwed. You're comparing a time to a certain speed to a time to a certain distance. As far as physics go, that's apples to oranges. 
Stop trying to convince us with your fabricated physics and go race an STI. Race one from a dig, from 30mph, from 50mph, or from 100mph. You will lose. Race them 1/8th of a mile or race them 5 miles. You will lose.


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

Im really tired of this topic, it's stupid...I mean 24V has 200hp and STI 300hp







Of course STI is faster







but some of you guys need to realize that STI loses power at the higher end...so the difference between the two from a dig and from a roll is different...I can give you one good example to compare....I never raced STI on the freeway but I did race modded WRX that ran at the track mid 13's..I saw him on the freeway, it was the same WRX, same track number....so we raced from about 70mph to about 110mph and he was barely pulling on me, that's when I had only Chip and CAI.
I never saw stock STI run mid 13's at our track neither








That's all I gotta say for now, until I race, hopefully a stock STi on the freeway








Than again, how many of you guys have really raced stock STI on the the freeway to give accurate comparison

















_Modified by rajvosa71000 at 11:35 PM 3-21-2006_


----------



## platinumedVR6 (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*

i honestly just dont care. i have fun with my car, wether it does or doesnt beat certain cars on the road. 
way too much bickering.


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (platinumedVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *platinumedVR6* »_i honestly just dont care. i have fun with my car, wether it does or doesnt beat certain cars on the road. 
way too much bickering. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_Im really tired of this topic, it's stupid...I mean 24V has 200hp and STI 300hp







Of course STI is faster







but some of you guys need to realize that STI loses power at the higher end...so the difference between the two from a dig and from a roll is different...I can give you one good example to compare....I never raced STI on the freeway but I did race modded WRX that ran at the track mid 13's..I saw him on the freeway, it was the same WRX, same track number....so we raced from about 70mph to about 110mph and he was barely pulling on me, that's when I had only Chip and CAI.
I never saw stock STI run mid 13's at our track neither








That's all I gotta say for now, until I race, hopefully a stock STi on the freeway








Than again, how many of you guys have really raced stock STI on the the freeway to give accurate comparison
















_Modified by rajvosa71000 at 11:35 PM 3-21-2006_


I've raced at least 6 Sti and 4 Evo that were stock or close to it. With the GTO from a roll, it's a SLOW pull on them up to about 100, then I've got a decent edge on them. In a GTI, you aren't going to stay anywhere close to these guys unless you're FI. Their trap speed is AT LEAST 10 MPH higher then yours. Through the 1/4 mile they are going to have at least 10 car lengths on you. It's just the way it is. Stock, if they aren't pulling mid 13s at a sea level track, the driver is completely clueless.
I'll also mention that I've gotten my ass handed to me more then once by modded ones.


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_Im really tired of this topic, it's stupid...I mean 24V has 200hp and STI 300hp







Of course STI is faster







but some of you guys need to realize that STI loses power at the higher end...so the difference between the two from a dig and from a roll is different...I can give you one good example to compare....I never raced STI on the freeway but I did race modded WRX that ran at the track mid 13's..I saw him on the freeway, it was the same WRX, same track number....so we raced from about 70mph to about 110mph and he was barely pulling on me, that's when I had only Chip and CAI.
I never saw stock STI run mid 13's at our track neither








That's all I gotta say for now, until I race, hopefully a stock STi on the freeway








Than again, how many of you guys have really raced stock STI on the the freeway to give accurate comparison
















_Modified by rajvosa71000 at 11:35 PM 3-21-2006_

I've seen a 12.9 from a bone stock STI. And uhm, where do you get this "STI loses power at the higher end" crap from? No they don't. They put about 70 more hp TO THE WHEELS than we do. It doesn't matter if they're at 20mph or 120 mph. They ALWAYS put more power to the ground than a 24V GTI.
You guys are nucking futs!


----------



## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
Your logic is screwed. You're comparing a time to a certain speed to a time to a certain distance. As far as physics go, that's apples to oranges. 
Stop trying to convince us with your fabricated physics and go race an STI. Race one from a dig, from 30mph, from 50mph, or from 100mph. You will lose. Race them 1/8th of a mile or race them 5 miles. You will lose.

First let me begin by saying that you are arguing about Physics and logic with an engineer, which is generally not advisable. With respect to your statement that I'm comparing different times at different speeds, THAT'S THE POINT. I NEVER said that the GTI/GLI was a faster car. what I proposed was that they are very close, in a drag race, between 60MPH and say 110. The reason is this; in a 1/4 mile run the STi will hands down beat the VR6, and will do so by approximately 1.5 seconds. (on average, I know times vary). In a zero to 60 run the STi will demolish the VR6 by about 2.0 Seconds. BUT!... the 0-60 time is contained within the 1/4 mile time. since this is the case, during the 1/4 mile run at 60MPH the STi is about 2.0s ahead of the VR6 (I acknowledge that this is an enormous gap) by time. Unfortunately, at the end of the 1/4 mile run the STi is only about 1.5 Seconds ahead by time. This means that the STi cannot be pulling on the VR6 for the entire gap between the time it hits 60 and the time it finishes the 1/4. This is mostly due to varying power bands, gearing and aerodynamics.
Here's how the whole race goes from a stop:
The Front wheel drive VR6 (6sp) has more torque and HP off the line (low RPM) than the STi (this is true, look it up) but has crap for traction and weight transfer and takes two shift to reach 60. The STi revs up, dumps the clutch to avoid the terrible turbo hole below 2500 RPM, and launches with wheel spin all the way around. It gets great traction and is further aided by the fact that it only takes one shift (I believe) to hit 60. This will place the STi firmly in front of the VR6, But, the STi will have to shift immediately after 60, and the VR6 will have a fresh gear in an incredibly good range at it's maximum power to stick with it. While the STi shifts and rebuilds it's boost, the VR6 is closing the gap. Then the STi catches it breath and both cars are a dead heat for a period until the VR6 needs to shift again (this would happen just before the 1/4 mile mark). At this point the VR6 would loose a little ground and, on the track, the race would be over. The Sti would be the victor by about 1.5 seconds and 10MPH. 
If the two cars kept racing, however, the story would be a little different. Shortly after the VR6 shifted into 4th the STi would need to do the same because his HP & TQ advantage over the VR6 is waning at about 6000 RPM. Once the shift to 4th has occurred in the STi the VR6 gets another opportunity to regain some ground using it's low, powerful, gears while the STi re-catches it's breath. This will pit the cars at a dead heat. Normally as the speeds get well over 100MPH the car with the HP advantage will pull away, but not in this case, because the STi does not have a significant enough advantage in HP (only about 40) at high RPMs to overcome it's terrible aerodynamics and the excessive drag caused by it's helicopter blade rear wing. It will stay about the same distance ahead of the VR6 until both cars run out of gear.
From a rolling start though, the events are slightly different. If the two cars are already going 60 (i.e. the freeway race, my original example) then the STi never gets it 2 second head start. As the two cars work through their gears they will stay at a dead heat. I know this to be the case, because I have raced EVO's on the freeway before (and yes, they know they're racing because I have spoken with one of the surprised drivers after the event).
Here are the facts:
STi is faster than VR6 in both 1/4 and 0-60
STi has more peak HP and TQ than VR6
VR6 has better road-course and mid range gear-set than STi
VR6 GTI/GLI has lower coefficient of drag than STi
STi goes like hell off the line
VR6 is built for the Autobahn
VR6 drivers like VR6's
STi drivers like STi's
Now please can we just drop this argument.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_
Now please can we just drop this argument.









No, because you are DEAD WRONG. At no point in the race will the VR6 be gaining on the Sti. It will never be even from a roll, at any speed for more then a couple of seconds. You might stay even for the amount of time it takes the turbo to spool, and after that, you're going to get your ass handed to you. The car is fast off the line, but it's still pulling a 101-103MPH trap speed, which is *10MPH* over a GTi.
I've raced Stis in the GTI, and the GTO, and I know one thing for certain. I walk a GTi like it's in reverse in the GTO. The same doesn't hold true for an STi.
Oh, and BTW, I'm an engineer too, and you need to take a serious look at what you're pushing here, because you're wrong.
Let me put this another way, in engineering terms:
At 60MPH:
(1 mile/minute) = 5280/60 = 88ft/second x 2 seconds = 176ft.
The gap between the two cars is 176ft. 
100/60= 1.67 miles/minute
1.67 x 5280 = 8800ft/min / 60 = 146.6 ft/second x 1.5 seconds = 220ft gap.
So, at 60MPH you were 2 seconds behind, and 176ft behind, and at 100MPH you were only 1.5 seconds behind, but the gap has opened to 220ft. 
Even thoug the time gap narrowed, the actual distance between the cars got greater by around 4 car lengths.
You never gain on the STi. It's faster. End of story.
Or, in laymens terms, you got your ass handed to you


----------



## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

Of course the gap continues to grow, the STi is starting at a higher rate of speed than the GTI at t=6.5 seconds. The gap does not, however, grow exponentially, as it would if the STI were dramatically out accelerating it.
You're an engineer? What company do you work for, because I would like to short their stock.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_Of course the gap continues to grow, the STi is starting at a higher rate of speed than the GTI at t=6.5 seconds. The gap does not, however, grow exponentially, as it would if the STI were dramatically out accelerating it.
You're an engineer? What company do you work for, because I would like to short their stock.










Coming from someone who thinks AWD doesn't help handling, I'd like to know what company you work for, so I can short THEIR stock. My company is doing just fine.
You serously don't get this do you? Just because it isn't leaving you as fast from 60MPH as it did from 0 doesn't mean it isn't leaving you. If you see some holes in my numbers, then point them out. I was trying to avoid getting complex with the acceleration rates, because it's really a waste of time.
Now, the one more time, the gap isn't growing exponentially, but it's ALWAYS GROWING. You never stay even. I've done the work on paper, and I've done it over and over on the street.
One more time...from any speed, on any road, any time of the day, an STi will murder you or any other GTi without some serious money spent under the hood.


_Modified by jeremyc74 at 2:48 PM 3-22-2006_


----------



## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_

Coming from someone who thinks AWD doesn't help handling, I'd like to know what company you work for, so I can short THEIR stock. My company is doing just fine.
You serously don't get this do you? Just because it isn't leaving you as fast from 60MPH as it did from 0 doesn't mean it isn't leaving you. If you see some holes in my numbers, then point them out. I was trying to avoid getting complex with the acceleration rates, because it's really a waste of time.
Now, the one more time, the gap isn't growing exponentially, but it's ALWAYS GROWING. You never stay even. I've done the work on paper, and I've done it over and over on the street.
One more time...from any speed, on any road, any time of the day, an STi will murder you or any other GTi without some serious money spent under the hood.

_Modified by jeremyc74 at 2:48 PM 3-22-2006_

AWD does not help cornering. I really don't have the time or care to explain that to you. But evidence of this is simple...If it did, just about all race cars would be AWD, they are not, end of story.
If two cars are accelerating at the same rate, but one has a greater initial speed then the gap between them will continue to grow. I have said the whole time that the STi is faster, but from 60 if both cars are running side by side, with no gap or speed deficit, then the battle will be very close. If you don't believe me, fine. I'm not going to grade your work, if you want me to analyze your calculations and point out the physical flaws you'll have to pay for it like everyone else.
We're not going to agree. That's fine. I consider this discussion closed


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_
AWD does not help cornering. I really don't have the time or care to explain that to you. But evidence of this is simple...If it did, just about all race cars would be AWD, they are not, end of story.



Race cars aren't AWD in many cases because they aren't allowed to be. It isn't proof of anything, and to say it is is stupidity. You don't have time to explain it because you don't know what the hell you are talking about.
Where it helps is with grip exiting the corner, and neither FWD or RWD can come close to the exit speeds of AWD on street tire. Take your GTi out to the track and run a few laps against an R32 and watch how far ahead he is after about 5 laps. The R32s performance from a roll is very close to a GTi, so I don't see how you could say that isn't a fair race.

_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_
If two cars are accelerating at the same rate, but one has a greater initial speed then the gap between them will continue to grow. I have said the whole time that the STi is faster, but from 60 if both cars are running side by side, with no gap or speed deficit, then the battle will be very close. If you don't believe me, fine. I'm not going to grade your work, if you want me to analyze your calculations and point out the physical flaws you'll have to pay for it like everyone else.
We're not going to agree. That's fine. I consider this discussion closed


If you're getting paid for that kind of work, you are ripping people off. You can consider the discussion closed now if you like. You're still full of **** saying that you can run with an Sti.










_Modified by jeremyc74 at 3:53 PM 3-22-2006_


----------



## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_
AWD does not help cornering. I really don't have the time or care to explain that to you. But evidence of this is simple...If it did, just about all race cars would be AWD, they are not, end of story.
If two cars are accelerating at the same rate, but one has a greater initial speed then the gap between them will continue to grow. I have said the whole time that the STi is faster, but from 60 if both cars are running side by side, with no gap or speed deficit, then the battle will be very close. If you don't believe me, fine. I'm not going to grade your work, if you want me to analyze your calculations and point out the physical flaws you'll have to pay for it like everyone else.
We're not going to agree. That's fine. I consider this discussion closed

Dude, you're not really an engineer are you? Please tell me you're not, because I'm sorry but you are dead ass wrong. I don't have the time or patience to type it all out for you, but Jeremy is right on with his facts. 
A stock or near stock 24V VR6 will NOT pull on an STI at ANY speed.


----------



## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

This is my last post on this topic.
The R32 has more HP than the 2.8L and much larger brakes. All else, such as power curves, gearbox etc. are nearly identical. Of course it will continue to outperform a GTI around a track. But, by your own admission, the R32 performs roughly the same from 0-60 as the GTi. Why then does it go around the Top Gear track at nearly the same lap time as an STi? It has less HP, it should be losing by your formula. But, in fact it is slowly gaining ground on it. It should be at least 2 seconds slower after that launch, but by the time one lap is over it is only 0.3s down. One more lap and it would be ahead of your 300HP STi.
With respect to the AWD discussion... I'm not the only one who believes it's not advantageous on road courses. But, I guess you know better than Ferrari, Zonda, Mercedes, etc. If only they would use 4WD they would be faster! Who knew!?!








Check out this list of power laps around the same course with the same driver starting from a stop from Top Gear on BBC. Notice the predominance of 2WD cars... I sense a trend, but you should be able to pick up on trends too...being an engineer.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/powerlaps/ 
Good day










_Modified by kapium at 6:28 PM 3-22-2006_


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*

Do you ever even watch Top Gear? The cars listed on that page were tested on differant days, with differant drivers, and a lot of time in the ****ing rain. If you had bothered to look at page 2, you would see another R32 that was tested at 3 seconds slower. They are also tested using a rolling start, so there was no advantage to the STi on the launch. Even the fastest R32 would be around 15 car lengths back at the end of 5 laps. That's not close in my world, but maybe it is in yours. Your list is pointless.
Now, lets get back to how in the hell you think you are going to run with an STi. Ever hear of power to weight ratio? The Sti has 50% more power then a GTi, yet you claim to be even with it?! I'll give you a little additional driveline loss, but 50%?!?
The bottom line is you DIDN'T run with one. You CAN'T run with one, and you've proven you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about. You should fit right in around here.
Now, have yourself a great day


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_
With respect to the AWD discussion... I'm not the only one who believes it's not advantageous on road courses. But, I guess you know better than Ferrari, Zonda, Mercedes, etc. If only they would use 4WD they would be faster! Who knew!?!










I guess you forgot about Porsche, Bugatti, Lamborghini....yeah, what the hell do they know about AWD?!?

















_Modified by jeremyc74 at 11:18 PM 3-22-2006_


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Wasn't Audi banned from certain racing series' because their "quattro" was deemed an unfair advantage? 
On that note, I will say that AWD doesn't have much if any advantage on a race track over a properly setup RWD car. BUT! ! ! Last time I check, my GTI was powering the FRONT wheels. Both RWD and AWD have a decided advantage over FWD, and yet we have people comparing the handling of a typical FWD GTI with ancient suspension technology to an STI which is arguably the best performing most technology packed car for under $70k. And it's only about $30k!
As far as the track performance between an R32 and an STI.... well let's just say after just a few laps The R32 wouldn't be refered to as competition, it'd be more along the lines of "lapped traffic".


----------



## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_Do you ever even watch Top Gear? The cars listed on that page were tested on differant days, with differant drivers, and a lot of time in the ****ing rain. If you had bothered to look at page 2, you would see another R32 that was tested at 3 seconds slower. They are also tested using a rolling start, so there was no advantage to the STi on the launch. Even the fastest R32 would be around 15 car lengths back at the end of 5 laps. That's not close in my world, but maybe it is in yours. Your list is pointless.
Now, lets get back to how in the hell you think you are going to run with an STi. Ever hear of power to weight ratio? The Sti has 50% more power then a GTi, yet you claim to be even with it?! I'll give you a little additional driveline loss, but 50%?!?
The bottom line is you DIDN'T run with one. You CAN'T run with one, and you've proven you don't have a ****ing clue what you're talking about. You should fit right in around here.
Now, have yourself a great day









I see your counter to any argument is to simply supply erroneous information from no apparent source other than you decidedly feeble mind and quote it as proven fact. Then you state that I'm the one without a clue.
Here's the reality: I do watch Top Gear regularly. The cars are driven by the same driver (supposedly, you never actually see his face). The cars are started from a dead stop. The R32 on page 2 was the older model, and was in the rain. So, just about everything you stated denouncing that list was wrong.
With respect to the original argument about whether or not a GLI/GTI VR6 can stay with an STi on the freeway, my original assessment is exactly correct. There is no noticeable difference in acceleration at speed. As you should know, acceleration in a car is a byproduct or torque being applied to the wheels. Using published data from Subaru and Volkswagen regarding gear ratios, vehicle weight, and tire size in conjunction with actual dyno power graphs for the stock cars I have calculated the actual torque applied to the ground for each car at varying speeds. The torque values are functions of the wheel torque measured by the dyno through the RPM range and the gear ratios. The final value is normalized by applying a multiplier to the VR6 due to it's lower curb weight. The final effective values are graphed against one another. The same method was used to plot the torque delivered by your GTO. As is evidenced by the graph, the STI will out-accelerate the VR6 off the line, but their acceleration will be nearly identical from 60MPH on. The GTO thoroughly serves both of them for the entire range. This is what I have been saying the entire time. If this were from a dead stop (i.e. quarter mile) the VR6 would never catch up, and since the speed of the STI is higher when the VR6 reaches 60 the gap will continue to grow at a nearly constant rate. If, however, both cars start from 60 there will be no noticeable difference between them. This will result in the STI winning on occasion or the VR6 winning on occasion depending on which driver gets the better start. You must, at least, acknowledge that with an effective power band this close the STI will not "always" defeat a 24V VR6 GLI/GTI on the freeway.
I wasn't going to post all this, but my brother egged me on and urged me to actually calculate it just for piece of mind. This is a common method used by drag racers for determining optimal shift points, so don't question my logic, you will be wrong. Also, BTW, we have used this method to determine shift points when racing our 100HP FWD Scirocco, which, according to the 2005 SCCA SOLO 2 Nationals is faster around a tight track than the STI. But that relates back to the 4WD argument.








At any rate, here are the charts and graphs:
















































Once again...Good day.


----------



## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*

Well, now you have proven yourself an engineer, but still clueless.
First of all, where did you get the numbers to calculate the torque?
From dyno runs? We all know that dynos vary widely, especially with a car that's has an airfed intercooler mounted under a hood scoop so what did you use? 
Second of all, where did you get this "normalization factor" you used to compensate for weight? 
A normalization factor would be impossible to come up with for three differant cars using three differant drivelines without real world testing.
Third, where are the calculation involving the drag coefficiant? Did you forget that these cars are moving through real air?!?








Fourth, where's the driveline loss, and how did you know what it was for each car? How about rolling resistance for each? Tell me where you got that?

Your numbers are worthless smoke and mirrors. On top of that, you've wasted your time, and mine sorting through it.
On a real road, the GTO doesn't serve the STi it's ass from a 60MPH punch, but either one will serve the GTI it's ass from any speed.

You're an engineer alright. One that doesn't understand the differance between the real world, with infinite variable, and paper, where you pick the factors you like to produce the desired outcome.
If you want me to beleive you, go out and run an STi on the highway. Video it, and post it. I'll throw down my normal offer:
You do that, and I'll kiss your ass in the middle of town after giving you 30 minutes to draw a crowd.








It's not happening.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

typical engineer....
Do me a favor and go race an STI. I have. I have raced more than one STI when my car was stock and I was nowhere close to running with on. You can fabricate every chart you want to, but I live in the real world. In my world where I have actually raced multiple STIs, both at the track AND on the highway, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that STIs are simply faster in EVERY aspect.


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## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_Well, now you have proven yourself an engineer, but still clueless.
First of all, where did you get the numbers to calculate the torque?
From dyno runs? We all know that dynos vary widely, especially with a car that's has an airfed intercooler mounted under a hood scoop so what did you use? 
Second of all, where did you get this "normalization factor" you used to compensate for weight? 
A normalization factor would be impossible to come up with for three differant cars using three differant drivelines without real world testing.
Third, where are the calculation involving the drag coefficiant? Did you forget that these cars are moving through real air?!?








Fourth, where's the driveline loss, and how did you know what it was for each car? How about rolling resistance for each? Tell me where you got that?

Your numbers are worthless smoke and mirrors. On top of that, you've wasted your time, and mine sorting through it.
On a real road, the GTO doesn't serve the STi it's ass from a 60MPH punch, but either one will serve the GTI it's ass from any speed.

You're an engineer alright. One that doesn't understand the differance between the real world, with infinite variable, and paper, where you pick the factors you like to produce the desired outcome.
If you want me to beleive you, go out and run an STi on the highway. Video it, and post it. I'll throw down my normal offer:
You do that, and I'll kiss your ass in the middle of town after giving you 30 minutes to draw a crowd.








It's not happening. 

And you have proven for the third or so time that you can't read, or comprehend posts. Dyno results are generally within a few percent of one another, I referenced most of them from the same sources, so the dyno's would not vary. Dyno's measure wheel HP, so driveline loss is already taken into account. The normalization factor is a ratio of car weight to the STI, this is done to negate the differing vehicle weights and thus negate the power to weight ratio. With respect to the coefficient of drag, I left it out because it's affect should be negligible, however, if I had included it, it would only further my claim since the STI has the worst drag coefficient of the three mentioned cars.
If you want to debase my argument you're going to need to do better than that.
There are many videos on Google of stock GTOs destroying STIs. Check it out on google videos. If I ever see a stock STI on the freeway you'd better get ready to pucker up.
Good day


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_
And you have proven for the third or so time that you can't read, or comprehend posts. Dyno results are generally within a few percent of one another, I referenced most of them from the same sources, so the dyno's would not vary. Dyno's measure wheel HP, so driveline loss is already taken into account. The normalization factor is a ratio of car weight to the STI, this is done to negate the differing vehicle weights and thus negate the power to weight ratio. With respect to the coefficient of drag, I left it out because it's affect should be negligible, however, if I had included it, it would only further my claim since the STI has the worst drag coefficient of the three mentioned cars.
If you want to debase my argument you're going to need to do better than that.
There are many videos on Google of stock GTOs destroying STIs. Check it out on google videos. If I ever see a stock STI on the freeway you'd better get ready to pucker up.
Good day









Dynos are NEVER within a few percent of each other, unless they are done on the same day, with the same operator, in the same shop. Just look at the dynos posted on any forum and it's obvious. Also, are you denying that the intercooler on the STi isn't going to make a differance at highway speeds? Give me a break!
Your correction factor is BS. It's just not that simple. Show me a link to a video of a GTO destroying an STi stock. You are still full of shcit.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=gto+vs+sti
Here are your links...
I think you guys are all off topic at least a bit. No one is seriously arguing that a VR6 stock is going to out do an STi or EVO for an entire quarter mile. Nor is anyone arguing that a VR6 will beat an STi or EVO from 0 to 60 (though a rolling start to say 45 or so might be fun due to the turbo lag....). The point being argued is that the cars become much more comparable "at speed". This is an interesting discussion, since most of us use our cars...at speed.
I will give you a couple examples of how cars can react very differently through wide speed ranges. Take a modded Porsche 951 (944 turbo) and a GMC Syclone as two examples. The syclone was wicked fast through the quarter mile in its day, but most of that acceleration was occuring below 70 MPH. Hell, they could hardly post trap speeds higher than 100 MPH, but destroy almost anything off the line. The exact opposite is the 951. I owned one of these cars for many years (modded of course







). Mine would run the quarter mile in ~13.7 at 118 give or take. But, it could only hit 60 in about 6.8 and that was on its very best day. The car simply had too much turbo lag to do anything off the line. Seriously, a Yugo could beat me from a light if the right lane ended soon enough!
So, the simple arguement of HP is simply not relevant in all situations. Now, I beleive that, even at highway speeds (say a 60 MPH start) an STi / EVO will still beat a VR6. However, if that "race" is for say 2-4 seconds (all a typical highway "race" is), and the VR6 driver gets a small "jump" the VR6 may successfully say ahead of the STi or EVO for that short period of time. Many factors make this possible: turbo lag, reaction time, gearing, weight, weather conditions....there are just too many to list. In my experience, unless you have a 3 or more second or 20 MPH or more advantage through the quarter mile on the car you are street racing, you could in fact "lose" the race. Not because your car is not faster, it is; but rather because, given all the external factors, your car could not cover the distance required quickly enough to get ahead.
Anyway, just my $0.02 let the bickering continue! I for one find it genuinely entertaining...


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## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*

THANK YOU!! That's what I've been saying all along!
And no, I don't think that the inter-cooler is going to make much of a difference. Most dyno shops blow air past them during the run anyway with very powerful fans (which is all that happens at highway speed anyway). I looked at lots of curves and they are pretty consistent.
As amusing as this discussion may be to some







I grow weary of it. Unless someone has some earth-shattering new evidence to present, all that needs to be said has been.
Good day


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*

Thanks for the link, but the GTO in that video isn't stock. The guys screename is WRP, and he posts on the GTO forum all the time.
The car is putting down around 450RWHP without the bottle. He posts so many video kills on the forum he has his own fan club. He's got the camera on a mount. He's got about 3-4 videos of him killing STis posted in the kill section over there.
Anyway, the problem with googling videos is that you never really know what you are looking at, and if the cars are stock or not.








Now, back to the topic.
What I'm saying is that at no point in a race from any speed will a GTi hang with an STi for any longer then it takes the driver to find the right gear. The turbo lag on those cars isn't that bad. You're not sitting around waiting on it to spool up. By the time you rev match to downshift and re-enguage the clutch, the car is making boost.
Look, I've owned a GTi, and raced it plenty. I've driven The STi, and I've raced many in the GTO. The GTi stock isn't even CLOSE. It's a dream. If you race an STi that knows you are racing him, he's going to walk you. It's just that simple. It's a much more expensive car, with a lot more HP and torque, and that's just the way it goes.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kapium)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kapium* »_THANK YOU!! That's what I've been saying all along!
And no, I don't think that the inter-cooler is going to make much of a difference. Most dyno shops blow air past them during the run anyway with very powerful fans (which is all that happens at highway speed anyway). I looked at lots of curves and they are pretty consistent.
As amusing as this discussion may be to some







I grow weary of it. Unless someone has some earth-shattering new evidence to present, all that needs to be said has been.
Good day










Yeah those fans equal 60MPH on the highway, and intercoolers don't really make much differance








You want to point us to where you're getting all these perfect dyno runs, and what VR6 dyno you are using? And hell, since you went to the trouble to drag it into this, what GTO dyno did you use? I've seen them vary more then 30HP from car to car and dyno to dyno. Put up, or shut up.
You grow weary of loosing.
Your signiture should read:
I'm not saying I'm right... but I'll never admit I've been wrong.









PM me when you've got that video up.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

You know there is no way to settle this. If he posts a video, you will simply say that it was "staged". I will give you one more example of where a car like an STi will suffer badly, possibly enough to lose, or at least have a VERY close race. A 95+ degree day. Once the intercooler can not cool the air, the HP will drop badly...this is undoubtedly one of the reasons you own a GTO. Also, is it fully understood that we are talking 24v VR6 motors with the close ratio boxes? These cars are very rare, and much faster than the standard VR6 and 1.8t in stock configurations...


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*

Give me a stock STI on the freeway and I'll have a nice dinner








Seriously, Im gonna race a stock STI and let you guys know, there are tons of them here, Im not saying I'll beat him, but I'll at least hang with him


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

I was just talking with a friend, and he reminded me of one more classic example. On the way to his bachelor party, we were cruising in my Mustang at about 55 (consistent 104 MPH quarter mile car). One of our friends came by us at around 60 in a lumina Z34 and punched it as he went by. By the time I got into 3rd gear and hit it, he was a ways ahead. It took me all of 3rd gear just to get next to him! I distinctly remember because I shifted into 4th next to him and nearly kicked my tail into his door







Obviously, my car was much faster, and I did catch him, but it took me about 5 or so seconds to do so. In traffic, you may not have that much time, and he would have effectively won that race. We did get next to each other at a light and I exacted my revenge







The result was as you would expect, we left him somewhere in the previous week! It all boils down to any given day, and the 24v VR6 is just fast enough to occasionally have its day. In a "fair fight", not a chance, but in my experience most freeway fights for position are not that fair.


_Modified by jk_jet at 6:55 AM 3-24-2006_


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_You know there is no way to settle this. If he posts a video, you will simply say that it was "staged". I will give you one more example of where a car like an STi will suffer badly, possibly enough to lose, or at least have a VERY close race. A 95+ degree day. Once the intercooler can not cool the air, the HP will drop badly...this is undoubtedly one of the reasons you own a GTO. Also, is it fully understood that we are talking 24v VR6 motors with the close ratio boxes? These cars are very rare, and much faster than the standard VR6 and 1.8t in stock configurations...


Let me guess...you're his brother right? Get real guys. Go out and run an STI in a stock GTi and you are getting your ass handed to you. It's a dumbass arguement. I don't care what your numbers say, or what you say. I've been there, done that, and have the T-shirt. People like you flood this forum with BS, and it's worthless because of it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## kkwas (Apr 15, 2003)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

OK just to add some sanity to this conversation with yet another person who has actually raced an STI, let me interject. I recently sold a 96 Volvo T5R WAGON...that would be a heavy brick with a 2.5L 250ish hp engine. I say 250ish because on any given day and at any given time it seemed a little bit different. Now, one of my coworkers bought a new STI and was trying to talk me into taking my Porsche 928 to our local drag strip to race his STI. I told him he probably couldn't beat my Volvo, much less my 928. So, he took me up on it with a smile and a handshake. Well the Volvo did lose in the quarter mile, but I had a higher trap speed. Now when we went to leave we were both getting on the highway and we punched it and I actually pulled away from him. Slowly, but I did. Oh yeah did I mention the Volvo was a 4 speed auto.








STI 14.2 at 95mph, old ass brick grocery getter 14.8 at 97mph. I am sure I could have done better in the Volvo, but I only took 3 runs. Controlling wheel spin and trying to launch a 3500 pound refrigerator is not easy.
So, I also have a 12v Jetta sedan of 98 vintage. Well on one ocasion I was driving the Volvo and a friend of mine was driving my Jetta. We were doing about 30 and we both punched it, and the result was the volvo pulled away from the Jetta slowly.....a little faster than the STI......but over a 5 second period I only pulled a car length on it. Now my 12v Jetta has less HP and worse gears than the 24v Jetta so I would expect that car to put up a much better fight. In a quarter mile the STI will hand it it's ass, but punching from 40ish I bet it has a hard time pulling away from the Jetta.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kkwas)*

Your freind can't drive. He's a full SECOND off the typical tested 1/4 mile time for an STi, and almost 10MPH. If you put him in a GTi he's going to be running 16s all day long.
One other option is that the car was brand new and not broken in. I've seen the cars go 12s bone stock, and there's plenty of video and data to prove it.


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## kkwas (Apr 15, 2003)

Neither one of us were trying wreck our rides. He ran about 4 times and had some conservative launches. Unlike most people who beat the ever living tar out of their car on the track he was trying to just see what it could do and have some fun. Which we did.
Now on the way back explain how my Volvo pulled away from him. Oh wait, I know he was a bad driver, the road was wet, I had nitrous in the Volvo, the STI was too new, too old............BTW my only 310hp 928 bone stock ran a 13.7 at 107mph. Explain how with 90 less hp than your GTO it did that? I am sure if I had spent all day beating on it I could have seen low 13s.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kkwas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkwas* »_
Now on the way back explain how my Volvo pulled away from him. Oh wait, I know he was a bad driver, the road was wet, I had nitrous in the Volvo, the STI was too new, too old............


Ok, now the BS is really getting deap. We have a guy who claims to be pulling an STI with a Volvo.








The idiot driver was in the wrong gear. Look at the numbers. He obviously couldn't drive the damn thing. He's a full second off the published times for the car, and more then that from the best times seen by everyday drivers.


_Quote, originally posted by *kkwas* »_
BTW my only 310hp 928 bone stock ran a 13.7 at 107mph. Explain how with 90 less hp than your GTO it did that? I am sure if I had spent all day beating on it I could have seen low 13s


Where do you people come from? Can you be this ****ing dumb? *The GTO weighs 500LBS more then the 928!!!!*








Does this forum advertise for people who don't have a ****ing clue? I've never seen such stupidity in my entire life. It's one thing to post something that's wrong, but to then defend it to the death.....it simply amazes me.


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## kkwas (Apr 15, 2003)

Before you go spouting off crap you may want to check you numbers..... *1987 928 3550lbs......2005 GTO 3725lbs.* So engineer, simple math gives you what a difference of 175. I agree with you on the Volvo.....a gigantic brick shouldn't beat anything, but it did......









_Modified by kkwas at 7:22 AM 3-24-2006_


_Modified by kkwas at 7:22 AM 3-24-2006_


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kkwas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkwas* »_Before you go spouting off crap you may want to check you numbers..... *1987 928 3550lbs......2005 GTO 3725lbs.* So engineer, simple math gives you what a difference of 175. I agree with you on the Volvo.....a gigantic brick shouldn't beat anything, but it did......









_Modified by kkwas at 7:22 AM 3-24-2006_

_Modified by kkwas at 7:22 AM 3-24-2006_


You didn't discolose the year. I assumed you were talking about an earlier one, as in '87 they had 316HP. Also...you owned an Automatic Porsche?!?! WTF is wrong with you?
If it was the 5 speed, the weight was 3500 even. Still a 225lb differance.
Source:
http://www.928registry.org/928-History.htm
All this has exactly SQUAT to do with a GTi running with an STI, which still won't happen. 


_Modified by jeremyc74 at 8:52 AM 3-24-2006_


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## kkwas (Apr 15, 2003)

OK all this has to do with variables....different weights, gears, torque curves, drag coefficients and traction can yeild vary different results in different conditions. So to say a 200hp Jetta can't keep up with a 300hp STI under any circumstance is a stretch. The STI is a rally car built to get optimal traction on slippery surfaces and shoot to the next corner as fast as possible. The Jetta is an autobahn cruiser built to sustain 130mph over distance. Two completely different purposes. To say a Jetta can't fend off an STI at higher speed is a little nieve or you just have not driven enough European cars.....and I suspect never driven in Europe......to know why they are so different. 
Try to learn a lesson or two from your GTO. It is fast, but it is not the fastest car under all circumstances. If it is raining, I bet I can beat you accross an intersection with my TDI. Accept the fact that you can't win every race, everywhere, every time because you have more HP. There is more to it then that.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (kkwas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kkwas* »_OK all this has to do with variables....different weights, gears, torque curves, drag coefficients and traction can yeild vary different results in different conditions. So to say a 200hp Jetta can't keep up with a 300hp STI under any circumstance is a stretch. The STI is a rally car built to get optimal traction on slippery surfaces and shoot to the next corner as fast as possible. The Jetta is an autobahn cruiser built to sustain 130mph over distance. Two completely different purposes. To say a Jetta can't fend off an STI at higher speed is a little nieve or you just have not driven enough European cars.....and I suspect never driven in Europe......to know why they are so different. 
Try to learn a lesson or two from your GTO. It is fast, but it is not the fastest car under all circumstances. If it is raining, I bet I can beat you accross an intersection with my TDI. Accept the fact that you can't win every race, everywhere, every time because you have more HP. There is more to it then that.









I've lived in seven countries. I've owned about 30 cars, including a VW, an Opel GT, and a BMW. My GF is Swiss. We go there all the time.
What the hell does any of that have to do with an STi whipping a GTI on a highway roll? Nothing.
Just accept the fact that the car you own WILL NOT run with an STI. If you think the VR6 is geared to cruise at 130MPH you are off your ****ing rocker. One of the biggest reasons I got rid of the GTI was that on my bi-weekly trip across FL, it felt like I was killing the car. The 6 speed is geared VERY low, and at 110MPH sustained speed isn't comfortable for long periods of time. I'm not saying it won't do it, or that it will damage it, but it's not comfortable.
BTW, what's factory speed limiter set at in a stock Jetta? 130 I think? Yeah, VW ment for it to cruise at the limiter all day.


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## kkwas (Apr 15, 2003)

Well I am sorry for assuming your experience level. 
However I am dissapointed by your assumptions. Cheers.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

Look Jeremy....its simple. get a few more miles under your belt and you will understand. On open roads across Florida you are right, a VR6 will never beat an STi, in a controlled environment such as a drag strip, you are right, a VR6 will never beat an STi. On the tollways of Chicago with the other fighterpilots where the STi's advantage of its mind bending 4wd launch is eliminated, and the momentatry lag of having to re-pressurise its boost tubes and large intercooler exacerbated, a crafty driver in a VR6 can and occasionally will beat him out for the ipass and exit lanes. I've seen it done, I've done it, I've had it done to me. I've owned cars that can hardly get out of there own way, and cars that can turn an easy launch into 120 MPH+ trap speed, been driving on the streets of the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor for more than 16 years and logged more than 650,000 miles. Of all the daily drivers I have driven, I won the most fights for position and lost the least in my wife's Corrado SLC. I personally could give a damn what the numbers say, in the true real-world scenario, i.e. the uncrontrolled environment of the highway, anything can and does happen. Don't believe me? wait one day until a Merc E350 (or similar) forces your out on the highway one day, and you will ponder how your GTO with all its HP was bested by 260hp automatic.... (hint: it has to do with the fantastic 7 speed gears, and the running start he'll take at you). BTW, if you wanted your GTI to run below 16 and perhaps in to the 14s, you needed to short shift it, I would have thought with all those european cars you have owned and all those years of experience you would know how to use a close ratio box.
Anyway, enjoy your GTO, if it were not for the trunk being so small, the back seat inaccessable and GM's constant desire to dial in understeer, I would own one too...


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*

Ok, now I understand how you are outrunning Stis. You are taking the old ***** Flyby approach and getting a run on them from behind.
And BTW, when did I say my GTI ran 16s? I said that if you took a driver that couldn't run better then 14s in an STi and put him in a GTi it would run 16s.

I'm just sitting here shaking in my chair at the thoughts of all those E350s sneaking up behind me with their 7 speed trannys








Get a ****ing clue.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

congratualations, you stepped into a larger world and realized that freeway fights are not fair. Here is the reality of modern big city highways, they are ruled by AMG and occasional M powered BMW. VR6 cars are slow, Stis are slow, EVOs are slow, cars like your GTO are just approaching fast, but will still be owned by an E55 under almost any conditions. VR6 powered cars are very nimble, small and hard accelerating at speed, making them the near perfect highway toy for a reasonable price. And as even you have now been forced to admit, a crafty driver can fend off a car that is only slightly faster. That is what every form of driving, from highway to open road to road racing is all about, the crafty driver wins. For those that do not like those rules there is always the drag strip, where the best car will win so long as the driver is not incompetent.
BTW, word of wisdom, watch out for any merc on the road, nothing and I do mean nothing puts down power in a strait line as suddenly and consistently as a modern merc or AMG. I'm not trying to be coy, just giving you a friendly warning. Oh, and the E350 example? I sight that cause I saw it last week out of the Waukegan iPass lanes headed towards downtown, and yes the GTO hit it, because they did not stop going at it until past 100 MPH when they caught too much traffic to continue.
Later all, enjoy those 24v VR6 motors, its a shame VW/Audi decided that should be an Audi only motor, I may have owned my last new VW as a result.
Kwas? When are we going start that "old timers thread"?


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_congratualations, you stepped into a larger world and realized that freeway fights are not fair. Here is the reality of modern big city highways, they are ruled by AMG and occasional M powered BMW. VR6 cars are slow, Stis are slow, EVOs are slow, cars like your GTO are just approaching fast, but will still be owned by an E55 under almost any conditions. VR6 powered cars are very nimble, small and hard accelerating at speed, making them the near perfect highway toy for a reasonable price. And as even you have now been forced to admit, a crafty driver can fend off a car that is only slightly faster. That is what every form of driving, from highway to open road to road racing is all about, the crafty driver wins. For those that do not like those rules there is always the drag strip, where the best car will win so long as the driver is not incompetent.



Are you this dense really, or are you just trying to be a troll? The Ri-cer roll is an insult. It's not racing. It's like stabbing somone in the back when they aren't looking. To claim a victory because you snuck up behind someone while they weren't looking is one of the dumbest things I've heard you say yet. Honda owners with their hat on sideways are notrious for it, but I would have expected at least a LITTLE more from a VW owner. You might as well get a fart can and some big stickers for your car.









_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_
BTW, word of wisdom, watch out for any merc on the road, nothing and I do mean nothing puts down power in a strait line as suddenly and consistently as a modern merc or AMG. I'm not trying to be coy, just giving you a friendly warning. Oh, and the E350 example? I sight that cause I saw it last week out of the Waukegan iPass lanes headed towards downtown, and yes the GTO hit it, because they did not stop going at it until past 100 MPH when they caught too much traffic to continue.
Kwas? When are we going start that "old timers thread"?

I run Mercs every chance I get, and have yet  to loose to one. An AMG costs about 3 times what my car does, so it better be faster. Do you have a point at all, or do you just like to hear your idiotic rambling?
Old timers huh? You two are morons.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*

cool, more physical evidence, just be safe








BTW, jeremy, here are the dyno links you requested...
http://www.pdxtuning.com/image...k.gif
http://vwericvw.tripod.com/dyno24v192hpweb.jpg
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/ls1/us_gto.htm
Rremember, when modeling a cars acceleration "moment by moment" you are using torque not hp. This should be obvious, but I will state it anyway, the HP is just the rate of torque, as RPM increases, when you look at performance in an "instant" you use torque at that "instant," the calculus takes care of the rest. Now, we could spend all week on the actual modeling and get pretty precise results (ala Grand Turismo), but living in a world of probabilities, we typically do not need that level of sophisitcation to make inferences reagarding the likelyhood or probablility of an event occuring. In these cases, a simplified model will do. Referencing Kapium's chart, you can see that the STi is in fact more powerful, even after 60 MPH, however, the power advantage is not so extreme as to rule out the possibility that the VR6 may occasionaly be able to win, under the right set of circumstances. The GTO chart proves this point. It is highly unlikely that either the stock STi or VR6 would be able to beat the GTO, regardless of the circumstances (unless its in the snow, when we all bow to the STi







). In all seriousness, if you want to further debate the modeling I would be happy to do so, if everyone is willing to be civil and set aside the snide comments...



_Modified by jk_jet at 8:43 AM 3-24-2006_


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_cool, more physical evidence, just be safe








BTW, jeremy, here are the dyno links you requested...
http://www.pdxtuning.com/image...k.gif
http://vwericvw.tripod.com/dyno24v192hpweb.jpg
http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/ls1/us_gto.htm
Rremember, when modeling a cars acceleration "moment by moment" you are using torque not hp. This should be obvious, but I will state it anyway, the HP is just the rate of torque, as RPM increases, when you look at performance in an "instant" you use torque at that "instant," the calculus takes care of the rest. Now, we could spend all week on the actual modeling and get pretty precise results (ala Grand Turismo), but living in a world of probabilities, we typically do not need that level of sophisitcation to make inferences reagarding the likelyhood or probablility of an event occuring. In these cases, a simplified model will do. Referencing Kapium's chart, you can see that the STi is in fact more powerful, even after 60 MPH, however, the power advantage is not so extreme as to rule out the possibility that the VR6 may occasionaly be able to win, under the right set of circumstances. The GTO chart proves this point. It is highly unlikely that either the stock STi or VR6 would be able to beat the GTO, regardless of the circumstances (unless its in the snow, when we all bow to the STi







). In all seriousness, if you want to further debate the modeling I would be happy to do so, if everyone is willing to be civil and set aside the snide comments...

_Modified by jk_jet at 8:21 AM 3-24-2006_


You can't even begin to model it when the dyno results are all suspect. None of them mention correction factor, altitude, type of dyno....nothing. It's all pointless data.
You bring up an interesting subject though.....GT4. I'll give you that it's one of the most advanced models ever available to the general public. I don't have a working Playstation any more, but I'm sure someone does.
Take an STi, and a GTI and run them on the test track and see what happens.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*

The purpose of "correction factors" in the dyno runs is so that you can make comparisons from one to another. Hence the importance of making sure that the dyno shop is experienced. It is true that we do not know for sure that these charts are as precise as they could be, however, if you look at the numbers they produce, the power bands shown do appear to be consistent with the level of performance found in each car in its stock form.
I'll see if I can find my PS2, and run them. I have little doubt that the STi will win a race from 60-100, the question is....by how much? There is one problem with doing that though....the GT has never been very good at taking into account the losses and efficiencies with turbocharged cars. The best example of this is how slowly some of the modded turbo cars rev in neutral when off boost. But hey, in the interest of "science" we can give her a whirl...


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_ The GTO chart proves this point. It is highly unlikely that either the stock STi or VR6 would be able to beat the GTO, regardless of the circumstances 
_Modified by jk_jet at 8:43 AM 3-24-2006_

Funny, whenever I go to the track stock STIs and GTOs are pretty even, with STIs actually edging out the GTO more than half the time. GTOs trap a mph or two higher, but STIs usually win. You said regardless of the circumstances, so I have to argue your point. So, stock for stock, 400hp GTO from a roll, STI from a dig. Period
And on that note, the GTI is nowhere even close.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (Flite)*

You are more or less correct, the EVO and STi both receive huge advantages from their 4WD, and the ability to dump the clutch from near redline and actually hook up. For whatever reason, most of the truely stock Stis I have seen run log between a 100 and 102 trap, typically in the mid to high 13s, the EVOs are slightly faster, say 103ish mid to low 13s. The GTOs are typically 106 to 109, mostly mid 13s, some low 13s. I have no explanation for this difference from norm, if it is different from norm, as I have never investigated it. However it is clear that, from a standstill, the STi gets such an enourmous jump, that it is hard in only a quarter mile to drag it back in even though the GTO by all accounts _should_ be able to.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*

For Christ sake somebody please race an STI from a roll...this is nuts


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (jeremyc74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jeremyc74* »_
If you think the VR6 is geared to cruise at 130MPH you are off your ****ing rocker. One of the biggest reasons I got rid of the GTI was that on my bi-weekly trip across FL, it felt like I was killing the car. The 6 speed is geared VERY low, and at 110MPH sustained speed isn't comfortable for long periods of time. I'm not saying it won't do it, or that it will damage it, but it's not comfortable.
BTW, what's factory speed limiter set at in a stock Jetta? 130 I think? Yeah, VW ment for it to cruise at the limiter all day.









Hmmm, I'll have to disagree with this statement, my GTI feels VERY comfortable at higher speed, I've cruised at 120mph easily and it vas very comfortable...car felt like it was cruising at 80mph....honestly, how many times I've cruise at 120 and didn't even realize.
And BTW, in Europe GTI's have different ECU, at least it doesn't have the speed limiter set at 130mph.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_For Christ sake somebody please race an STI from a roll...this is nuts
















I have, more than once. That's why I don't understand why people are argueing my actual experiance with fabricated physics


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
I have, more than once. That's why I don't understand why people are argueing my actual experiance with fabricated physics

I feel exactly the same. It's ****ing ignorant arguement.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
I have, more than once. That's why I don't understand why people are argueing my actual experiance with fabricated physics

well I raced stock looking SRT-4, 3 times from a dig and beat it...did anybody believe me? I don't think so....In reality I really did race him, and beat him....than I raced him from a roll to and was able to see him in my rear view mirror


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
well I raced stock looking SRT-4, 3 times from a dig and beat it...did anybody believe me? I don't think so....In reality I really did race him, and beat him....than I raced him from a roll to and was able to see him in my rear view mirror









Now _this_ race I can help with fact. I have been in a 24v VR6 jetta with the EXACT same result. Also been in kwas's old Volvo which walked away from a Neon SRT-4 3 times before the guy finally got the hint. Last time he actually got about a 15mph or so run from behind and the volvo was still able to keep him from passing and ultimately pull away. Of course, that cant happen right? It's an automatic after all with only 240 or so hp......right up until you check the times on a V70R... Of course, like I said before, none of these cars are truely that "fast"
Anyway, its been fun, I can't for the life of me figure out how the thought police moderators around here let all this go on for so long, but hey. Jeremy in particular, seriously man, its been a long time since I've had that much fun with someone in a Forum rant....
Later guys, and I still say 8v and VR6 rule!!


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (R28buddy)*

It's ridiculous how you guys go back and forth with this '' did or didn't beat EVO/STI'' stuff When all I'm trying to find out is what other people were capable of with this car. The EVO and STI were not victories, I said that already and am not going to say it again since you are all too thick-headed to comprehend that. I'm reading all this **** and wondering is this all you people do with your time? ****talk back and fourth about statistics which can be prooven wrong in other instances. All that stuff did happen and I don't give a wet **** what you people think. Some of you actually list your accomplishments and I offer congratulations. Yet some of you piss on me whom you no nothing about and want to pass judgments on stuff you didn't even see or experience. I think it's ****ty that you can't even share your experiences without pessimists. 


To put this to rest once and for all. As far as the quarter, of course I lost to the STI. But it was way less than ten car lengths. As far as the winding uphill highway battle I totally managed to catchup to them. Sure the are ballsy cars but my buddy driving it was far from it. Seriously his steering was for ****, He loses control allot, the turbo disturbs control of the car in a corner, as soon as he approaches full boost towards a tight hairpin he had to brake heavily. His total time for max boost was limited. I could tell he was on it because a boxer 4 with 4 inch exhaust has a loud sound that doesn't lie. In a straightaway from a stop, of course he is going to pull away from you, but once you're at speed then floor it , it is easier than you think to catch up to them but not pass them unless you have the $8,000 turbo kit.


The point is that you are missing the point . Some of these battles were victories and some were not, but I could back up every one as fact. And I was not even done with the list , I just put down the ones that were really fun and interesting. It's boring to go out and beat the **** out of civics all the time so I take on some higher class cars sometimes. I don't give a **** if I lose, it's fun just competing and at least I'm not too chicken **** to go up against cars who outclass me.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_
It's ridiculous how you guys go back and forth with this '' did or didn't beat EVO/STI'' stuff When all I'm trying to find out is what other people were capable of with this car. The EVO and STI were not victories, I said that already and am not going to say it again since you are all too thick-headed to comprehend that. I'm reading all this **** and wondering is this all you people do with your time? ****talk back and fourth about statistics which can be prooven wrong in other instances. All that stuff did happen and I don't give a wet **** what you people think. Some of you actually list your accomplishments and I offer congratulations. Yet some of you piss on me whom you no nothing about and want to pass judgments on stuff you didn't even see or experience. I think it's ****ty that you can't even share your experiences without pessimists. 
To put this to rest once and for all. As far as the quarter, of course I lost to the STI. But it was way less than ten car lengths. As far as the winding uphill highway battle I totally managed to catchup to them. Sure the are ballsy cars but my buddy driving it was far from it. Seriously his steering was for ****, He loses control allot, the turbo disturbs control of the car in a corner, as soon as he approaches full boost towards a tight hairpin he had to brake heavily. His total time for max boost was limited. I could tell he was on it because a boxer 4 with 4 inch exhaust has a loud sound that doesn't lie. In a straightaway from a stop, of course he is going to pull away from you, but once you're at speed then floor it , it is easier than you think to catch up to them but not pass them unless you have the $8,000 turbo kit.
The point is that you are missing the point . Some of these battles were victories and some were not, but I could back up every one as fact. And I was not even done with the list , I just put down the ones that were really fun and interesting. It's boring to go out and beat the **** out of civics all the time so I take on some higher class cars sometimes. I don't give a **** if I lose, it's fun just competing and at least I'm not too chicken **** to go up against cars who outclass me. 



Ok dumbass, why don't you back some of this up with a video or timeslip. If you are running less then low 14s in the quarter, an STI will have every bit of 10 car length on you.
Same thing goes for you guys claiming to have killed an SRT-4.
You're full of ****.
I'm not about to back off this so everyone can feel good. The SRT is capable of low 14s bone stock. It has no AWD advantage, and it's trap speed is faster then the VR6.
Face the ****ing facts people!! The numbers at the drag strip don't lie. Not one of you idiots has produced one single peice of credible evidence to support these idiotic claims.
I guess it's just ****ing magic that the VR6 cn outrun all these faster cars.
All of you.....GET A ****ING CLUE http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## pford (Mar 17, 2004)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*

If my car rocked any SRT-4 even once, much less 3 times, I sure as hell would post about it here...but hey














...
Anyway, how the %$#@ are there 6 pages for this post, and why don't people go find out at a track.. just for laughs even...








BTW...we definitely need a 24v kill story forum for entertainment value alone... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
(I've got ENDLESS M3 encounters, and Civics)


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (pford)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pford* »_*If my car rocked any SRT-4 even once, much less 3 times, I sure as hell would post about it here...but hey














...*
Anyway, how the %$#@ are there 6 pages for this post, and why don't people go find out at a track.. just for laughs even...








BTW...we definitely need a 24v kill story forum for entertainment value alone... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
(I've got ENDLESS M3 encounters, and Civics)

I did posted that, but I didn't make a tread about it...I believe I posted it in that tread about "who is satisfied with 24V performance" but, I don't usually like to say that 24V VR6 is 100% faster than stock SRT-4 based on one race, maybe the driver didn't know how to drive(it didn't seem so anyway) but I gave him 3 chances plus we did one race from a 20-30 mph roll, and how much can you really f'uk up from a roll?
Anyway, I have another example, that might help out with "racing STI from a roll" I raced an EVO in the 1/4 mile...he killed me off the line and put about 4-5 cars on me through 1 and half 2nd...after that he was not pulling AT ALL on me, in fact it looked like I was kinda reeling on him, and I had only Chip CAI at that time.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (jeremyc74)*

Alright, put or shutup time.... and lets have some fun with it.







We can obviously not _legally_ prove the highway race scenario, so those interested, lets do it at the track. If any of you are near Great Lakes Dragaway in southern WI, lets get the required cars together and have some fun. The track opens next weekend, hell they even have a free week of racing for the first week in April.
Here is my proposal. We get together as many cars as we can (Stock EVOs, Stock STis, Stock FSI GTis, 12v VR6s, 24v VR6s, neon SRT-4s, whatever). We record 5 pieces of information: (i) 0 to quarter mile time, (ii) eighth mile time to quarter mile time, (iii)0 to quarter mile speed, (iv) MPH/sec of acceleration from 0 to the quarter, and (v) MPH/sec of acceleration from 1/8 mile to the quarter. All this can be had from the time slips. Since our primary interest will be the fifth piece, acceleration after the eighth mile, those of you who are worried about damaging your car, can rest at ease. Your acceleration from 1/8 to 1/4 should be the same regardelss of how you launch, so easy starts should be fine.
If we can get enough people interested, we can collect the data and determine how likely the claims posted are, if nothing else, it will be a heck of a lot of fun and a good oportunity to make some new friends...
Of course, all cars would be welcome to participate. If enough of you are interested, I will set up the statistical model to analyze the data, we can find a good date/time, have some fun, get some beer







and run the results .








Post back here if you are up for it; if enough people are, I'll get together a web page for the date, etc, and to ultimately post all the results.


_Modified by jk_jet at 11:11 AM 3-25-2006_


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (jk_jet)*

That be cool if we were in the same State or City, but c'mon who is gonna drive long trips for that


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (rajvosa71000)*

There have to be some people reading this thread that are in the Chicago/Milwaukee area. Or someone has friends in the area, lets just see. Worst case scenario, we just start postling slips once the tracks open, but its easy for people to cheat that way...


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_There have to be some people reading this thread that are in the Chicago/Milwaukee area. Or someone has friends in the area, lets just see. Worst case scenario, we just start postling slips once the tracks open, but its easy for people to cheat that way...

Video. I want video. Unless I see video if a GTI beating or keeping up with an STI, EVO, GTO, or SRT4 (which I won't by the way, because it won't happen) I won't believe it. 
Like this:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
Video. I want video. Unless I see video if a GTI beating or keeping up with an STI, EVO, GTO, or SRT4 (which I won't by the way, because it won't happen) I won't believe it. 

Of course you wont see drag strip video of it happening! no one has stated that it is possible, unless the Sti driver has to start by standing outside his car or something. That was not and is not the arguement. The question was, is it possible to hang with one of these cars on the highway for a limited period of time. The answer to that is decidedly yes. You two have far to little respect for how difficult a 1 second or couple MPH initial advantage is to make up at speed, and far too much respet for how much more acceleration is associated with running 1.2 seconds and 10 or so MPH faster through the quarter. If we can get enough people together to gather some numbers, it would be fairly easy to demonstrate.
Honestly, this is the exact phenomena that got me interested in engineering the first place. I simply could not figure out how my V8 mustang could not always hammer Honda's on the freeway. Until I learned calculus I could not figure it out, but it all had to do with the couple MPH inital advantage, the additional time it took me to realize I was in a race and downshift, and the relatively short period of time (5 sec or so) to conclude the race.
If someone is curious, I would be happy to dig up my old notes and rehash this. It might be fun for my students anyway...
Anyway, off to the movies...bash away guys...god knows I'm wrong...

















_Modified by jk_jet at 4:35 AM 3-26-2006_


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
Video. I want video. Unless I see video if a GTI beating or keeping up with an STI, EVO, GTO, or SRT4 (which I won't by the way, because it won't happen) I won't believe it. 
Like this:
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D

Goddamnit Flite, you're gonna make me go out there and buy a video camera so I can post a video for you non believers that I can smoke stock SRT-4....my buddy has a SRT-4 that's stock and he gave me a ride, it didn't feel as fast as my car, and when I asked him to race he was like.."nah there are too many cops around" even tho I asked him to go somewhere remote.
SRT-4 had a little punch from a dig but only short...3rd gear roll was really not that impressive...I told the guy..."dude I can smoke you"


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_
Of course you wont see drag strip video of it happening! no one has stated that it is possible, unless the Sti driver has to start by standing outside his car or something. That was not and is not the arguement. The question was, is it possible to hang with one of these cars on the highway for a limited period of time. The answer to that is decidedly yes. You two have far to little respect for how difficult a 1 second or couple MPH initial advantage is to make up at speed, and far too much respet for how much more acceleration is associated with running 1.2 seconds and 10 or so MPH faster through the quarter. If we can get enough people together to gather some numbers, it would be fairly easy to demonstrate.
Honestly, this is the exact phenomena that got me interested in engineering the first place. I simply could not figure out how my V8 mustang could not always hammer Honda's on the freeway. Until I learned calculus I could not figure it out, but it all had to do with the couple MPH inital advantage, the additional time it took me to realize I was in a race and downshift, and the relatively short period of time (5 sec or so) to conclude the race.
If someone is curious, I would be happy to dig up my old notes and rehash this. It might be fun for my students anyway...
Anyway, off to the movies...bash away guys...god knows I'm wrong...
















_Modified by jk_jet at 7:31 PM 3-25-2006_

I didn't say at the 1/4mile track. I don't care if you get video of a highway pull, a 1/4 mile run, or a road course. Get me a video of a 24V VR6 coming anywhere CLOSE to keeping up with an STI, EVO, SRT4 or GTO and I will eat my words. You won't though, because it won't happen.
You're right about one thing though, God _does_ know you're wrong.

_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
Goddamnit Flite, you're gonna make me go out there and buy a video camera so I can post a video for you non believers that I can smoke stock SRT-4....my buddy has a SRT-4 that's stock and he gave me a ride, it didn't feel as fast as my car, and when I asked him to race he was like.."nah there are too many cops around" even tho I asked him to go somewhere remote.
SRT-4 had a little punch from a dig but only short...3rd gear roll was really not that impressive...I told the guy..."dude I can smoke you"









Go buy a video camera and post the video. You WILL NOT beat an SRT4 with a near stock 24V VR6 unless something is seriously wrong with his car. Funny thing too, I cut better 60fts in my VR6 (when it was stock too) than an SRT4, but they would beat me every single time at the track. What can you conclude from that? I'll give you a hint, it'll make you eat your "3rd gear roll really not that impressive" crap.


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (Flite)*

Before I reply to this, assuming I reply to this... (it gets both technical and boring) What is your assertion? That a stock SRT-4/STi/EVO is always faster than a stock VR6 under any circumstances (an answer that requires an explanation of the adiabatic efficiency of aftercoolers in a turborcharger system), or that a stock VR6 can not with as small as a 1 second or 2-3 MPH initial advantage pull an entire car length on a stock STi/EVO/SRT-4 and hold at least that 6-7 seconds before the STi/EVO, perhaps the SRT-4 but experience says I boubt it, can pull the VR6 back in? (an answer that requires a simple "trick" of physics and calculus, but can demonstrated pretty easily).
BTW, is the video you linked to your car? and if so, whats the trap speed on that run and how much boost are you blowing in that VR6?
Also, getting video is not as simple as getting a video camera. I have both the cameras and the necessary mounts from SOLO II days, its getting the cars, the private land and decent weather that is the problem.... With the high pressure and low temperatures we have around here right now, a Stock STi would give a Ferrari a strong run...


_Modified by jk_jet at 5:02 AM 3-26-2006_


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
I cut better 60fts in my VR6 (when it was stock too) than an SRT4, but they would beat me every single time at the track. What can you conclude from that?

Easy...AT THE DRAG STRIP, he has more power than you, and therefore much less traction, so you are quicker to 60ft, he is quicker everywhere else. This "more power issue" is because he has had an opportunity to let that tiny little aftercooler and turbocharger cool down between runs, so they are both at peak efficiency, hence the impressive quarter times and speeds. Out on the road where the car has been steadily running with no cool down, the SRT-4s efficiency will be reduced resulting in his turbo "running out of boost" at high RPM and a cooresponding loss of high end power. The same power he will need to match up well with a 24v VR6 that has an impressive amount of high end power. This is why when you race a turbo car on the open road with an NA car (it does not matter what cars you choose, so long as they are comparable), the more times you race in sequence, the easier it becomes to get the best of the turbo car.


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
Goddamnit Flite, you're gonna make me go out there and buy a video camera so I can post a video for you non believers that I can smoke stock SRT-4....my buddy has a SRT-4 that's stock and he gave me a ride, it didn't feel as fast as my car, and when I asked him to race he was like.."nah there are too many cops around" even tho I asked him to go somewhere remote.
SRT-4 had a little punch from a dig but only short...3rd gear roll was really not that impressive...I told the guy..."dude I can smoke you"










You aren't living in reality. What's the best your car has even ran at the track? 15.0? Even at 14.5 , which as far as I know hasn't been done in a N/A VR6 on street tires, you're still SLOWER.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_
BTW, is the video you linked to your car? and if so, whats the trap speed on that run and how much boost are you blowing in that VR6?

106mph trap speed, ~7psi.

_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_
Easy...AT THE DRAG STRIP, he has more power than you, and therefore much less traction, so you are quicker to 60ft, he is quicker everywhere else. This "more power issue" is because he has had an opportunity to let that tiny little aftercooler and turbocharger cool down between runs, so they are both at peak efficiency, hence the impressive quarter times and speeds. Out on the road where the car has been steadily running with no cool down, the SRT-4s efficiency will be reduced resulting in his turbo "running out of boost" at high RPM and a cooresponding loss of high end power. The same power he will need to match up well with a 24v VR6 that has an impressive amount of high end power. This is why when you race a turbo car on the open road with an NA car (it does not matter what cars you choose, so long as they are comparable), the more times you race in sequence, the easier it becomes to get the best of the turbo car.


Turbo cars DO lose some efficiency, you're right. You're a little off in your assumption of how MUCH efficiency they lose though. A heat soaked SRT4, STI, or EVO will STILL beat the dog piss out of a stock 24V VR6. Keep in mind, in order to get heat soaked to that point, they'd have to be sitting in traffic where a race won't happen anyway. From a roll on the highway they have enough airflow to keep air temp almost ambient.
You're argueing a losing battle. I don't need fabricated physics, I have actually raced these cars and speak from real world experiance. I've been modifying and racing compact FWD cars (mostly Hondas) for about 10 years. I'm not new to this type of discussion. Go get some real world experiance and then report back. Until then, there is NOTHING you can say or equate that is going to change my mind. What I'm saying isn't my opinion. It's not some hypothesis I've fabricated by twisting numbers. I HAVE EXPERIANCE. That automatically negates everything you say. I'm right....sorry. 


_Modified by Flite at 10:38 AM 3-26-2006_


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (Flite)*

OK, its like this:
First, the obvious.
1. A Stock VR6 will never beat an STi, etc.. in a quarter mile
2. A Stock VR6 will at no time ever be out accelerating an STI provided they are at the same velocity.
I was digging through my office this morning getting ready to write a proposal I have been putting off, and managed to find my old acceleration models. This is nice as I can now demonstrare what is happening here. (It turns out we are all right, from certain points of view). Now, in the interest of disclosure, here are what my models predict for quarter mile times in the two cars vs. the actual times:
STI actual: 1.885 to 60', [email protected] to 1/8, [email protected] to 1/4
STI predicted: 1.980 to 60', [email protected] to 1/8, [email protected] to 1/4
24v VR6 actual: 2.197 to 60', [email protected] to 1/8, [email protected] to 1/4
24v VR6 predicted: 2.386 to 60', [email protected] to 1/8, [email protected] to 1/4
You guys let me know if you feel the models accurately represent the actuals for the cars, and if you feel the actuals may, for whatever reason, not be representative of the actual cars.
Now, lets take our our original statement. "Out on the highway a VR6 can "run with" an STi". Lets say the cars are both cruising side by side at 60MPH. The VR6 suddenly punches it, taking the STi by surprise. By the time the STi drivers realizes he is in a race, grabs his shifter, drops the gears and punches it, a second has gone by, and the VR6 has moved about 3 feet ahead in relative position. Now, both cars are floored, and will run each other for a few seconds. Because of the initial jump, the VR6 will actually continue to move ahead in relative position until the gap grows to about 30 feet. Interestingly enough, the gap wil more or less stay at ~30 feet for 6 or 7 seconds, while the STi uses its superior acceleration to match the speed of the VR6. after about 9 seconds, the STi will succeed in matching the velocity of the VR6 and begin to rapidly overtake it. However, this wont happen until 100+ MPH by which time the "race" is probably over. Don't missunderstand, at NO TIME is the VR6 actually out accelerating the STi, the STi is always faster, but it started in a hole, and is simply not ENOUGH faster to close that speed differential in that short of a time. This phenomena leads to a lot of people with technically slower cars feeling they can run with the big boys, and leads to a great deal of WTF!? moments for those with fast cars that are on the receiveing end of this.








Now, that said, what bothers me about some of you guys is your arrogance. What makes your personal experience any more or less valid than someone elses? I have always been of the mind that it is better to assume there is truth in what they say, and endeavor to understand it. On that experience note, I ripped my first FWD apart to mod it in 1989, have driven in excess of 650,000 miles, raced SOLO II for 6 seasons, built up 4 cars from scratch one of which clocked off a 123 MPH trap on its turbo motor. You may want to respect the fact that people like myself may have a bit of experience too. For example. I will tell you this. If you got next to me on a 90 degree day at 70MPH in your VR6 and I was in my 951 and you got the jump on me, do you know how much that 123 vs 107 MPH 1/4 trap speed would be good for? Absolutely nothing! You would have 50 feet on me before I could build enough boost to start closing that gap, and we would have to cover the better part of a mile or so for me to do it. In effect, you would smoke me. The difference is, I understand that, and would respect the fact that my car is not ENOUGH faster than yours. One need not fabricate physics to see this, one need only understand it.
BTW, I would be happy to modify the numbers in the models and re-run them if you wish, but don't assume they are wrong, my dynamics prof did that when I was pursueing my undergrad degree, and I eventually proved him wrong as well. The only problem with the table above is that it assumes constant acceleration across each second, which leads to distances longer than than what they would be at that speed, they are, however, proportionaly longer, and only slightly so. I just dont have the software to run a proper regression model anymore, and excel is not sophisticated enough for it.
Happy hunting to one and all, and if there are any in the MIlwaukee/Chicago area who want to hook up at the track, let me know...my cabbie and I are ready for ya...LOL









For those that viewed already...sorry I linked to the wrong table, it had a conversion factor in it that I forgot to remove


_Modified by jk_jet at 1:16 PM 3-26-2006_


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm not reading all that, but what I gather is that you're justifying it by saying the STI DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HE WAS RACING???? You said the GTI jumps the gun before the STI even realizes he's racing.
I'm willing to bet here that if you did get a legit race with an STI, He'd beat you, and you'd go flying by him citing that he shut down early so you won the race.
r-eye-cer fly by anyone??? 
Douche


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_I'm not reading all that, but what I gather is that you're justifying it by saying the STI DIDN'T EVEN KNOW HE WAS RACING???? You said the GTI jumps the gun before the STI even realizes he's racing.
I'm willing to bet here that if you did get a legit race with an STI, He'd beat you, and you'd go flying by him citing that he shut down early so you won the race.
r-eye-cer fly by anyone??? 
Douche


If a one second jump is all it takes for person to "not realize he is racing" then no street race is ever valid. One car will always have a jump, and one will always have a speed advantage. If you are too lazy to read there is nothing that can be done for you.
And for the record. I HAVE NEVER ARGUED THAT A VR6 CAN ACCELERATE HARDER THAN AN STI!!!! If you ignorant idiots want to ignore the real question, then kindly leave the thread and let the rest of us have our fun.
oh and the "r-eye-cer fly by" sounds an aweful lot like a term some insecure ass came up with to defend why his car was NOT ENOUGH FASTER to overcome what I described above. The fact that you even have a term for it suggests that you know exactly what we are talking about and are simply too stuborn or too stupid to accept it. I will assume it is the former.



_Modified by jk_jet at 3:40 PM 3-26-2006_


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## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_Some people call it street racing...In Chicago we call it the morning commute...._jk_jet's signature_

LOL, so true. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: (jk_jet)*

flite didnt make up the term r-eye-cer flyby. if you havent heard that term before your kinda secluded, and have never driven a car fast enough to know what it is.
heres what it is. its when your minding your own business and some retard in a car that is generally uncle benz'd out keeps trying to race you. you finally get sick of the moron in the car that is obviously a slow piece of crap that the owner thinks is the greatest car on the road. you race him, you blow him away, you shut down, continue driving like a normal human being then the idiot goes flying by you at WOT like 4-5 seconds later or sometimes even more.
hence the name "fly-by" its usually when the other guy gets so upset about lossing that he has to have the last word and goes flying by and insists to his friends for the next 5 years that "i beat this really fast car earlier, he was pullin on me at frist then i pulled on him at top speed"
honestly this thread is stupid, you wont hang with an STI/EVO/SRT-4. honestly like jeremy and flite have been beating you guys over the head with, you need FI to do that. Im door to door with lightly modded STI's and EVO's, i can pull lightly on stock ones. my car is nowhere near stock. my car is a solid 1-1.5 seconds faster then a NA 24v, and im "close" to those cars, last time i checked 1 second faster in the 1/4 equates to like 15 car lengths, in no way is that "close" so i dont know why all you guys with NA cars think your close to those cars....even on the highway http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
NA 24v's arent fast, they are moderatly quick but damn if your hanging, hes not racing end of story


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Whatever guys. If you don't know what the term "r-eye-cer flyby" means then you haven't been into the car scene long enough. It's a pretty common term.
As for this thread, I'm done with it. I even posted a link to this thread back on my hometown discussion board just to show 'em what kind of morons I have to deal with in the VW world. 
One day you'll grow up realize I was right all along. Until then, have fun convincing yourself your car is faster than it is.
[unsubscribe]


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## Jetta-Haup6 (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_Whatever guys. If you don't know what the term "r-eye-cer flyby" means then you haven't been into the car scene long enough. It's a pretty common term.
As for this thread, I'm done with it. I even posted a link to this thread back on my hometown discussion board just to show 'em what kind of morons I have to deal with in the VW world. 
One day you'll grow up realize I was right all along. Until then, have fun convincing yourself your car is faster than it is.
[unsubscribe]

Flite, i got to respect your argument here. I haven't posted yet in this thread because i thought it was a senseless argument. The thing i noticed is that all the FI guys will even tell you that our cars are not keeping up with STI's when we are n/a. 
Take VW's for what they are. 
my best friend drives a 2003 STI bone stock. I have never once been able to pull on him with any of my cars. 


_Modified by Jetta-Haup6 at 6:38 PM 3-26-2006_


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (2002gtibluvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2002gtibluvr6* »_flite didnt make up the term r-eye-cer flyby. if you havent heard that term before your kinda secluded, and have never driven a car fast enough to know what it is.
heres what it is. its when your minding your own business and some retard in a car that is generally uncle benz'd out keeps trying to race you. you finally get sick of the moron in the car that is obviously a slow piece of crap that the owner thinks is the greatest car on the road. you race him, you blow him away, you shut down, continue driving like a normal human being then the idiot goes flying by you at WOT like 4-5 seconds later or sometimes even more.
hence the name "fly-by"

OH, you mean like 10 years ago when guys like you would "race" my 13 second mustang. only I was at barely normal acceleration and you were at full throttle. We used to call those guys ***********. Used to bother me for some reason in the Mustang, so I upgraded to a Porsche 951 and made that car run better than 120 MPH through the quarter (but I guess that is not "fast" since I have never owned a fast car...my bad) Wake up guys, the world is NOT all about the quarter mile, in fact it has almost no relevance to anything except the quarter mile.
Here's another thing I can tell you from experience. There is such a thing as "first fast car syndrome" You would be familiar with the term if you hung around some road racers for a while. It goes like this. At some point it your life you get or build your first fast car, and think you rule the world and brag about it at nauseum. Only problem is, there is always a faster car, so one day a car that is faster or nearly as fast beats you on the street, and in order to save face you must now defend that car that beat you to the death, even if it defies all logic, and reason.
So, come on guys, when did an STi run away from you unexpectedly. I'll tell you what, that is the one car I NEVER lost a race to in my 951 stock or otherwise, even one that pulled your "***** whatever flyby". It took me till 125 to catch his dumb ass from 80 and he nearly s&*t when I realed him in, coffee can exhaust. big turbo and all aint no match for 400+ whp in a 2700lb car with gears to run...
The grand irony is that if you guys were not so full of yourselves, you would realize that guys like me AGREE WITH YOU. We are simply telling you how it is that you occastionaly lose to cars you shouldn't in what seems to be a fair race.
So have fun prooving your self worth at the track, the rest of us will be driving to work enjoying our cars every minute of the way....


_Modified by jk_jet at 4:53 PM 3-26-2006_


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## jk_jet (Jul 9, 2001)

*Re: (Jetta-Haup6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jetta-Haup6* »_my best friend drives a 2003 STI bone stock. I have never once been able to pull on him with any of my cars.

If both your cars are stock, try what I explained above once. get side by side at 60, punch your car in third, then have him wait approx 1 second, then punch his in third. See if you can get a car length or so before he reels you back in, and note what your speed is when he gets back along side you. I would try it myself, but I only have access to the Jetta, I do not know anyone that owns and STI, they are just not that popular around here.
Seriously, I'm curious how fast the STIs actually are at speed, my 951 was so much faster I never got a good feel from the few I raced. If you do it, post the results back here, or IM me.


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## mp3mike05 (Jun 28, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_Goddamnit Flite, you're gonna make me go out there and buy a video camera so I can post a video for you non believers that I can smoke stock SRT-4....my buddy has a SRT-4 that's stock and he gave me a ride, it didn't feel as fast as my car, and when I asked him to race he was like.."nah there are too many cops around" even tho I asked him to go somewhere remote.
SRT-4 had a little punch from a dig but only short...3rd gear roll was really not that impressive...I told the guy..."dude I can smoke you"









My friend has an srt-4 and there is no way that I could ever beat him, let alone "smoke" him.


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## kapium (Jun 26, 2004)

*Re: (2002gtibluvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2002gtibluvr6* »_flite didnt make up the term r-eye-cer flyby. if you havent heard that term before your kinda secluded, and have never driven a car fast enough to know what it is. 

So at what speed, exactly, does the term "r-eye-cer flyby" magically pop into your head? Just let me know so I know how fast I have to drive.


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## Jetta-Haup6 (Jan 16, 2005)

*Re: (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_
If both your cars are stock, try what I explained above once. get side by side at 60, punch your car in third, then have him wait approx 1 second, then punch his in third. See if you can get a car length or so before he reels you back in, and note what your speed is when he gets back along side you. I would try it myself, but I only have access to the Jetta, I do not know anyone that owns and STI, they are just not that popular around here.
Seriously, I'm curious how fast the STIs actually are at speed, my 951 was so much faster I never got a good feel from the few I raced. If you do it, post the results back here, or IM me.

my car is modded, but ill do it tomorrow and let you know.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (mp3mike05)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mp3mike05* »_
My friend has an srt-4 and there is no way that I could ever beat him, let alone "smoke" him. 

That's why I said I don't like to go to conclusion from one race, maybe the guy didn't really know how to drive, however I did race another SRT-4 at the track when I had chip and CAI, he barely beat me, he ran 15.2 vs mine 15.5.
Anyway, I just raced an EVO from 80mph roll, he was slightly pulling on me, I was in 4th and by the end of my 4th he had a car on me.
At the next light we talked, told him that I always wanted to race one from a roll, he was like "ok, I'll race you from 20mph roll, I was like nah it's too low, you'll smoke me bad...than he started asking about my car, he asked me how much HP my car has, I told him 200, he was like to the wheels or to the crank, I said to the crank but I dynoed 191whp...he was like I dynoed 360whp, I was like








That's when I asked him if he really punched it back there, he said yeah but he was in 5th gear...so I was in 4th and he was in 5th...now you engineers can do the math


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## jeremyc74 (Dec 30, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
That's why I said I don't like to go to conclusion from one race, maybe the guy didn't really know how to drive, however I did race another SRT-4 at the track when I had chip and CAI, he barely beat me, he ran 15.2 vs mine 15.5.
Anyway, I just raced an EVO from 80mph roll, he was slightly pulling on me, I was in 4th and by the end of my 4th he had a car on me.
At the next light we talked, told him that I always wanted to race one from a roll, he was like "ok, I'll race you from 20mph roll, I was like nah it's too low, you'll smoke me bad...than he started asking about my car, he asked me how much HP my car has, I told him 200, he was like to the wheels or to the crank, I said to the crank but I dynoed 191whp...he was like I dynoed 360whp, I was like








That's when I asked him if he really punched it back there, he said yeah but he was in 5th gear...so I was in 4th and he was in 5th...now you engineers can do the math











There's no need to do any math. He should have been in 4th at least, and maybe even 3rd. He was playing with you and still pulled you. It really doesn't matter though because the guy's claim means he's not stock. It's hard to tell what he's actually done. 
I've told people at stoplights after races I've cut the mufflers off my car, gutted the cats, or removed the airfilter, just for a laugh. 
I can't beleive this has gone this far, and all this modeling has been done, and no one has pulled out GT4 and a PS2 and ran the cars. It's better then any half ass models you guys are putting up here by light years.

I've raced the cars, and I know what the outcome is, but at least then you're going to see how HUGE the gap is.
All this "one second" jump talk is a load of BS. Only a punk would pull something like that then post that he can hang with a certain car.


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (jk_jet)*

If you would like to talk comparisons, I could describe some of the cars I've road-tested. I've been working at certain dealers for some time now. I used to be at VW, but now I landed a job at Honda/Chevy for more money. The point is that I'm a P.D.I. tech and test drive the new models. 


2006 civic SI= not that quick, no torque until after 6000
2006 accord v6= gutsy motor but slow due to over 400lbs heavier than mine
2006 S2000 = awesome!!! couldn't touch it, pulls very well
''no Honda stuff''
2004 Golf R32 = great!!! tried to buy one, payments too high
2004 350Z sick as hell !!!!!! I say the same for G35 coupe(same thing)
2004 Rx8 = cool on the freeway, 237hp out of an 80 cubic in. motor( rotary not reliable)
2003 20th anniv. GTI = 2nd choice but like the instant response of mine better 
1997 Rx7 twin turbo = !!!!!!!!!!!!! so ****ing quick (FD3S)
2006 Corvette (non Z06,bummer) still scorches the tires pretty good
2002 WRX= mucho cool
2004 STI= cool as well, both have traction imediatley
2006 Cobalt SS = totally sucked, s/c didn't help that much, tail wing is ridiculous
2002 mach 1 Mustang= pretty fun , for a Ford



Mabey you have had better times with some of these. I just happened to get a car I liked, could afford, have some fun with, bring home random girls in it, and I've just been into the VW tunning scene for over 10 years and couldn't see getting into anything else (ESPECIALLY A PONTIAC ).An answer to his question, this page is still going on because some of us have the right as american citizens to list our acomplishments of our cars without random ******** telling us we are full of ****. Of course you are free to say your bull**** but I will say my facts and repeat them if neccasary because some of you are obviously too thick headded to grasp the concept of things actually happening instead of theories based on recorded times from pro drivers in controlled 
conditions. jk_jet has a good proposal however, the conditions change,drivers change, vehicle state of tune can change= you may not get the same results. Besides, I can't belive you guys are fixated on this. My 1.8t buddy who posts on some forums here showed me forums of built 1.8t guys competing with STIs, mabey it's in the 1-8 forum I don't remember but it was like last year when e saw it. The one I thought you would question was my victory against a mk2 with VR6 swap, it was hard to belive myself.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

You're an idiot...

Somebody please make me a moderator.


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## TYPHOON 28 (Jan 29, 2006)

*Re: (Flite)*

your idiot **** doesn't change anything. 

At least I was able to accomplish some of this with very minimal tunning while you guys feel you need to spend a ****load of money(on top of payments)to get this car to drive the way you want.Seriously, I feel bad. You could have taken that money and bought an EVO/STI whatever but those things seem to have more reliability issues(especially Mitsubishi). This guy who sort of hangs out with us around here wants to get out of his EVO & into a 06' CIVIC SI because he saw one of those maintaining 5 car lengths behind some EVOs doing laps at Laguna Seca raceway out here.He said it was ridiculous, '' practcally put the EVOs to shame in the corners''.The guy is pretty dense, but seeing that just 180ed his car choice, pretty weird. My buddy's WRX went through turbo and #4 piston around 20000 miles( possibly the way he drives).My VR6 seems to be so ****ing bulletproof, I'm going on 40000mi. and no major or minor stuff like that at all( and I drive hard).I guess a persons capabilities must be better than the cars. 
anyway, you can choose to talk about your capabilities with this car built or not built I don't care, but don't try to tell my that I didn't do **** that I already did.Seriously, if you didn't think you could beat a MK2 w/ stockVR6 12v swap, you have no business telling me that I don't have the balls to take him on. I did it by a bumper length, you should have seen it, it was one of my best runs.


_Modified by R28buddy at 1:53 AM 4-23-2006_


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## 2gturboteg (Nov 3, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*

sorry wrong thread


_Modified by 2gturboteg at 8:40 PM 7-24-2006_


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## .dented vento (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (R28buddy)*

i still cant believe these cars are only mid to hight 14sec cars with bolt ons. they *feel* so much like 13sec cars


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (.dented vento)*

50 shot = 13s if you're just after that number.


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## .dented vento (Jul 14, 2006)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 ([email protected])*

you know... i bought this car to have in, not to compete. i gotta keep reminding myself of that








but really, the car pulls like a 13sec car. i guess the fwd and gearing just murder the 1/4 et's :shrugs: what can you do


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (.dented vento)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.dented vento* »_you know... i bought this car to have in, not to compete. i gotta keep reminding myself of that








but really, the car pulls like a 13sec car. i guess the fwd and gearing just murder the 1/4 et's :shrugs: what can you do

Our car is not really good for drag racing..I keep up pretty good with cars that have much better quater times on the freeway after races.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

How did this retarded thread and it's retarded thread starter get back to the top?


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*

I love it.


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

Instead of I beat/can beat this or that, could I actually get some help? What are the ideal shift points for the BDF engine at a 1/8 or 1/4 mile track? I have an 03 GLI (GIAC ECU flash, short ram, Magnaflow cat back) and went to the 1/8 mile track for the first time before coming to Iraq. I ran consistently 10.4** (with .5** reaction times, damn dbw!) but found other people with similar mods were well under 10 seconds in the 1/8 mile. I was almost redlining everytime. What is the ideal rpms to shift at from dragging for a chipped car? Or if you can point me to the link that had the info before that would help. I have searched but can't find it. Thanks all.
Additionally, is there any formula to estimate 1/4 mile times off of 1/8 mile times? Maybe a silly question, but just curious.



_Modified by looneyben6 at 11:44 PM 8-7-2006_


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

What ever your rev limit is, shift there. And don't take your foot off the gas at all.


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Flite (if you are not just talking about supercars with F/I like yours







). I thought I found a thread somewhere here before where someone metioned shifting closer to 6200-6500 as that was optimal.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (looneyben6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *looneyben6* »_Thanks Flite (if you are not just talking about supercars with F/I like yours







). I thought I found a thread somewhere here before where someone metioned shifting closer to 6200-6500 as that was optimal.

No actually, I short shift mine in the bottom two gears (first especially) but you are going to want to hang on to every possible RPM you can get. Some idiots on here are going to tell you otherwise, but they're, well.....idiots.


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Flite! We're all idiots at something at one point or another.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (looneyben6)*

Flite is right. 
1st gear limiter kicks in quicker or maybe the tach is too slow.
btw my best 24v 1/8 was [email protected] with a 2.1 60ft.


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## sh{}e (Aug 7, 2004)

*Re: (R28buddy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *R28buddy* »_ My buddy's WRX went through turbo and #4 piston around 20000 miles( possibly the way he drives).My VR6 seems to be so ****ing bulletproof, I'm going on 40000mi. and no major or minor stuff like that at all( and I 

_Modified by R28buddy at 1:53 AM 4-23-2006_

So because one guy you know had something go wrong with his car so makes all wrx/evos unreliable especially after modding? If that were true then I could say that about the 24v since I have 3 friends having major issues with their cars







.


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## betterwaystodie (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: 1/4 mile times for a 200 hp GTI VR6 (phatvw)*

have you been in a 24v with a magnaflow and cold air intake?....hmmmm screw the 12v rumble. My 24v eats my best friends 12v for lunch, even when I was bone stock.
b-


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Flite is right. 
1st gear limiter kicks in quicker or maybe the tach is too slow.
btw my best 24v 1/8 was [email protected] with a 2.1 60ft.

What mods did you have when you ran that? My first gear takes a second to kick in at launch, but I was just flooring it when the light changed, rather then having it already up at a certain rpm. As soon as I hit it, it takes like 1/2 a second before it will actually "go". I wanted to try to punch first when the light before the green light flashed, but didn't want to redlight it and ruin the run.


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: (looneyben6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *looneyben6* »_
What mods did you have when you ran that? My first gear takes a second to kick in at launch, but I was just flooring it when the light changed, rather then having it already up at a certain rpm. As soon as I hit it, it takes like 1/2 a second before it will actually "go". I wanted to try to punch first when the light before the green light flashed, but didn't want to redlight it and ruin the run.

Rev to about 2500 rpms as soon as you're both staged. As soon as the last yellow lights up, start feathering out the clutch and pressing the gas just enough to sit right on the edge of wheel spin. You should actually spin your tires just a _liiiiiiittle_ bit. From that point on, don't let off the gas AT ALL. Even when you shift keep your right foot planted. Practice practice practice and you'll run your best times.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (looneyben6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *looneyben6* »_
What mods did you have when you ran that? My first gear takes a second to kick in at launch, but I was just flooring it when the light changed, rather then having it already up at a certain rpm. As soon as I hit it, it takes like 1/2 a second before it will actually "go". I wanted to try to punch first when the light before the green light flashed, but didn't want to redlight it and ruin the run.

I reved up to about 3k rpms before launching and then feathered in the clutch. In the class I was running in, they call it sportsman and the reaction time doesn't affect the 1/4 mile. You could leave 1 second early or late and it wouldn't matter.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (Flite)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Flite* »_
Rev to about 2500 rpms as soon as you're both staged. As soon as the last yellow lights up, start feathering out the clutch and pressing the gas just enough to sit right on the edge of wheel spin. You should actually spin your tires just a _liiiiiiittle_ bit. *From that point on, don't let off the gas AT ALL. Even when you shift keep your right foot planted. Practice practice practice and you'll run your best times*.

Yeah but aren't you gonna ef up you tranny like that?


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## Flite (Jul 16, 2004)

Not if you do it right. You still depress the clutch and engage the next gear like normal, you just leave your foot planted. If you get good at it, you can slightly lift off the gas when you shift.


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks again Eric and Flite. Eric - you still didn't mention what mods you had when you ran the 9.2 in the eighth...mind sharing?


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## betterwaystodie (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: (jk_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jk_jet* »_
Now _this_ race I can help with fact. I have been in a 24v VR6 jetta with the EXACT same result. Also been in kwas's old Volvo which walked away from a Neon SRT-4 3 times before the guy finally got the hint. Last time he actually got about a 15mph or so run from behind and the volvo was still able to keep him from passing and ultimately pull away. Of course, that cant happen right? It's an automatic after all with only 240 or so hp......right up until you check the times on a V70R... Of course, like I said before, none of these cars are truely that "fast"
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i do concur you are correct...i drove an srt4 right before i bought my 24v vr6 and i would have walked all over that car with my 24v. alot of turbo lag stock was what would have made this possible.
Anyway, its been fun, I can't for the life of me figure out how the thought police moderators around here let all this go on for so long, but hey. Jeremy in particular, seriously man, its been a long time since I've had that much fun with someone in a Forum rant....
Later guys, and I still say 8v and VR6 rule!!


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (looneyben6)*

AEM CAI, GIAC chip, 2.25" Neuspeed exhaust, no cat, no back seats, no spare.
FK 60/40 Hitec suspension kit, 18" OZ Superleggeras with falken ziex 512 tires.
Car made 191hp, 191tq before I took out the cat, but that time was without the cat.


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

Thanks Eric, did removing the cat help much?


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (looneyben6)*

Removing the cat took me from high 94 second trap speeds to consistent 96 second trap speeds. Peak power is improved a lot. I also felt that taking the cat out reduced highway exhaust drone.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Removing the cat took me from high 94 second trap speeds to consistent 96 second trap speeds. Peak power is improved a lot. I also felt that taking the cat out reduced highway exhaust drone.

That sounds like it's worth doing it.
You probably lost some down low power, right?


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*

Not that I felt, but I was never able to dyno again after removing the cat. It was also essential for me to take it out because I was running a big n2o shot.


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

So in order to remove it, do you just replace it with a straight pipe welded in?


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## iTapAss (May 22, 2006)

yes.


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## looneyben6 (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (iTapAss)*

Sweet! I have another mod on the list for when I get back from deployment now.


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## 619 (Mar 29, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

eric, you ran a low 14 right? did anyone here ever get any lower than you?


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