# 2.0T FSI Rattling Noise - Bad Lifter?



## isaacallen73 (Aug 20, 2016)

Hey, new guy to the Vortex forums here.

My 2006 Audi A4 2.0T with 139k miles started making a new noise yesterday. Sounds like a faint tick or knock, almost like detonation or a lifter tick. Seems to happen when the engine is fully warmed up right when I start to get on boost in 3rd or 4th gear, going up a hill around 2500 rpm. Goes away above 3000 rpm. Its a very subtle noise from the right-ish side of the engine bay (can only be heard with radio off and windows down). And before anyone asks for a sound clip, it's too subtle for a microphone to pick it up, haha.
I tried testing the basic things, but haven't had any luck.

Ive tested the oil pressure before and it was a bit on the low side and its done some funky things towards the end of my oil change intervals. Since it was about time for an oil change anyway, I went ahead and did one with Mobil 1 0W-40. Didn't help.

Went ahead and pulled the spark plugs to check for detonation or anything unusual. They all looked fine. Cylinder 2 was slightly crustier than the rest, but not enough for any concern. So, seems like no detonation. Its also worth noting I always run 93.

I understand some of the TSI's can get a rattle from the wastegate actuator. In, TSB #2024061 the procedure to replicate the sound is exactly the same as how I can get the sound. However, the TSB is for the newer TSI's, not my FSI. I tried to feel around for the actuator arm, and didn't feel any play. It's super hard to reach, so there definitely could be some play.


So, my current guess is that one of the exhaust lifters has gone bad. The car always has lifter rattle on cold starts, which I assumed was normal, but maybe not. Is it possible that at around 2500 rpm, there is additional pressure on the exhaust valves from boost, but there is not yet enough oil pressure for the lifter to work properly? Would the very slight crustiness on my Cylinder 2 plug be from #2 exhaust valve not opening all the way? If I pull the valve cover, will it be easy to tell if I have a bad lifter? If so, could I just ignore the noise or run some thicker oil to quiet it down? Or is it possible that my wastegate is rattling? It is also worth noting that I recently had a new OEM downpipe put in, so maybe that is leaking. I understand exhaust leaks cam be the cause of some interesting noises.

Thanks for reading all of this. I'm completely open minded and appreciate any advice you have.
Isaac


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## Barn01 (Feb 26, 2011)

These engines are notorious for bad cam chain tensioners. The lower your oil pressure is the worse it will sound. The most noise is usually on startup but the ticking sound at idle sounds like a diesel. I'm not sure this is your issue but if you've never had yours replaced then I would bet it's bad. Almost all of FSI 2.0T's have tensioner failure and the dealer won't tell you. It should have been a recall if you ask me but because there's little safety concern they don't do it. I'm not even sure if they made it a TSB because then they admit there's a problem. Instead the dealer just says, "oh ya, all of them do it". It's a bugger of a job to replace and you need some special tools.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

When you say it seems to be coming on the right side do you mean right side while you're in the car driving, or right side when you're inspecting the engine bay, so drivers or passenger side? I'm assuming you meant passenger side but I don't want to assume. If so, then that doesn't exactly support the very common cam chain/tensioner issue. There is nothing in your post that overwhelmingly makes me think cam chain/tensioner if we take it all at face value. However, it is important to keep in mind that noises can be difficult to pinpoint and can sometimes sound like they are coming from somewhere they are not. Also, that rattle you mentioned at cold start could be the cam chain not lifters. In my experience the lifters and injectors on this motor tick, they don't rattle. Rattle makes me think chain for sure.

Point is, it isn't really clear one way or another about the likelihood or not that the issue is your cam chain or tensioner from what you've discussed, but if you want my opinion: you should still do the cam chain/tensioner anyway. It very well might be your issue, in which case that's great, but if it's not it doesn't matter because at that mileage and age you can be damn sure it needs to be done anyway unless you have records stating it was done before. Basically, it's one of those things you better do anyway so may as well do it sooner than later and see if it was the cause of your noise as a bonus.

What Barn01 said about oil pressure is 100% true and does make me suspect the chain/tensioner may not be in the happiest of states. They are dynamically controlled by oil pressure inside the cam chain cover which has passageways and a clever (read: over-engineered) way of controlling oil pressure within the cover. You'll see when you remove it, not worth explaining on here right now. Point being, if overall oil pressure is low this can adversely affect things inside the cam chain cover as well. You'd better get in there are replace that chain and tensioner and you should also do your best to figure out why your oil pressure is low because that is going to cost you in the long run. What was the oil pressure at idle and at operating temps with revs? If it's mediocre or worse then eventually your going to have problems. God forbid your oil pump goes south. That thing costs $1500 just for the part and install is a PITA too. To figure out your oil pressure issue I'd start by dropping the oil pan and cleaning out the pickup screen. Inspect it and see what is caught in there, may give you some hints as to what is going on. You may want to send your next oil sample to Blackstone labs for analysis too and see what they pick up in there at the microscopic level, tells you a lot about engine health.

The cam chain/tensioner replacement is really not so bad a job as long as the bolt securing the exhaust cam shaft lobe doesn't shear when you try to remove it (which unfortunately happens often, and happened to me even though I was using the right poly-drive bit for it). At that point you have to drill it out which is of course a huge pain in the ass given the location and the fact that you have to be very thorough in getting all shavings with a magnet and such as you go. Can't let any of them stay behind. Aside from that it's a pretty straightforward job, the only other annoyance is that it requires some specialty tools. You can find them on ebay for much cheaper then VW wants. You can then sell them on the forums to recoup your money; there are always people looking to buy them for the job. 

There is a good DIY for the job on the forums but I think the pics got deleted because of Photobuckets new policy so it's not as useful anymore. I could probably recite the steps and point to them in a short video for you or something if you decide to do the job yourself and need something visual. Let me know.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Addendum:

I'm not surprised M1 0W-40 didn't help with the noise. It is a good oil, best bang for your buck and best at that price point, but it's not THE best. If you have a noisy engine it isn't gonna quite anything down, if anything it'll make it louder. While it is a good oil for awhile it does tend to sheer faster than other VW 502 spec oils and it also burns off faster (in my experience) which is of particular note considering how quickly these engines burn oil compared to others. I ran it for awhile with and had plenty of good looking oil analyses from Blackstone for it but I eventually decided against it because, at the end of the day, my engine was louder on it than on some other oils and that just didn't sit well with me. General rule of thumb is that noisier engine equals more wear and while it might not be enough to show up on an oil analysis for 5k miles I'm afraid that it could add up long term. I've used half a dozen of the most popular oils for these cars and had oil analyses for all of them. My top 3 as of date are Liquimoly Leichtlauf 5W-40, Motul X-Cess 8100 5W-40, and Redline Euro 5W-40. Redline is great, just pricey. Motul is a good oil but the X-Cess is an older formula and for some well-researched reason that I can't remember I decided against the more common Motul Specific 5W-40. Can't remember why but I know I had a good reason for choosing X-Cess over Specific. I'm sure Specific is plenty fine if you're super picky for details like me. At the end of the day though I keep coming back to the Liquimoly Leichtlauf 5W-40. It tends to look the best, if only by a bit, in my samples. Engine sounds the happiest on it, and it's $35 on Amazon. You MUST make sure you get the "fully synthetic" version though. LM has a non-full synthetic version of some of there oils which aren't proper group IV oils. The one I buy is this (https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-2332-Leichtlauf-Engine/dp/B00LIC29H6)

Just thought I'd share my experience with various oils for whatever it's worth. At the end of the day though as long as you are using a good VW 502 spec oil, change it every 5-6K miles (not the preposterous 10K miles that VW recommends), and use an OEM Mann filter each time, nothing bad should happen. Oil is just something I tend to get overly obsessed about haha.


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