# S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (j338) TB wont adapt!



## sickvr666 (Oct 24, 2000)

Got another ECU and my S4 wont start. It Doesnt start with the old ECU either but im pretty sure that one is junk. 

Im getting the code:
17987 - Throttle Actuator (J338): Adaptation Not Started 
P1579 - 35-00 
Ive tried adapting the TB by going into basic settings. typing "060" etc.. In the 4th box it read "error" How do i adapt this thing?
Sound like maybe the TB is dirty? 

Thanks


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (j338) TB wont adapt! (sickvr666)*

A fault like that shouldn't prevent it from starting. Yes the TM has to be clean to adapt properly. 
Post an auto scan and a description of the symptoms and why the Ecm was replaced.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (j338) TB wont adapt! (sickvr666)*

If you have access to another S4 I would swap throttle bodies and try a throttle body adaptation.
I have had Audis that were "no starts" with defective throttle bodies. Also try yours on another S4 if possible.


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## sickvr666 (Oct 24, 2000)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (Peter Badore)*

Heres the story. Warning: as you start reading your gonna say to yourself, "wtf". Listen guys, this has definitely been a lesson learned-
I got my ASP stage 3 finished and back on the road last november. The car wouldnt boost accurate. Id get 10lbs then id get 29lbs then 14lbs then 26lbs and so on. sometimes it would go into limp mode after about 4Krpm. The guy who installed the file in my ecu was kind of a shady charactor.The car was down for 2 years and i was happy to have it back so sending the ECU back right away wasnt sounding fun. So i just figured he screwed something up and id would eventually get a custom tune. In the meantime i just installed a MBC and set my boost at 22lbs.
Well back in april i met a local guy who had a stage 3 with a couple different custom tuned ECUs. Ive got a 2000 A box. Hes got an 01' or 01.5'. Not sure, but i do know that it wasnt an A box. I was told that with new software and being stage 3 i could swap boxes....HA, i shouldnt have listened to the first person i asked.
Anyways, i wanted to try one of his tuned boxes to see if my ecu was the boost problem i was having before the MBC. With his box installed it ran like hell and sounded like it wanted to die. It blew out plenty of smoke. (a little white, a little dark) I didnt drive it but i did rev a little to see if it would adapt. It ran for about 20 seconds then i shut it down.
I put my ecu back in and started it up. It ran like it did with his ecu, like ass. I backed it out of the driveway then pulled it back into the garage. Then it ran fine. I didnt go drive it but i let it idle and revd a few times. Figured it was back to normal.
The next morning my wife calls me to say that she took my truck to work because she started the car and it was running like sh*t. I got home and it wouldnt start. I was thinking i fried the ecu. So ive been looking and waiting since april and i finally just got my new stage 3 ASP A box ecu http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. I tried fixing this earlier but no thanks to ASP for some hold up.. (thats a different story). Before i got this ecu i installed new plugs and a fpr. Now im getting these codes so i tried another TB. Thats not the problem either. So, still no start.
It has got to be something stupid







. I am not vag com savy at all. I can get codes and read instructions! 


Thanks









Thursday,12,November,2009,20:07:50:06654
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018
Rocky Mannos

Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-AZA.lbl
Control Module Part Number: 8D0 907 551 M
Component and/or Version: AutoSpeed Stage3G04_____
Software Coding: 06611
Work Shop Code: WSC 06325 
2 Faults Found:
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster 
P1650 - 35-00 - - 
17987 - Throttle Actuator (J338): Adaptation Not Started 
P1579 - 35-00 - - 

Readiness: 0110 0101

Thursday,12,November,2009,20:19:48:06654
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018
Rocky Mannos
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And when i go into basic settings-
Address 01: Engine (8D0 907 551 M)
20:19:11 Group 060: Electronic Throttle Adaptation
14.8 % Throttle Valve Sensor 1 (G187)
84.8 % Throttle Valve Sensor 2 (G188)
1 Throttle Adaptation Steps Counter
ERROR Result Throttle Valve Adp.


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## Dana @ Ross-Tech (Sep 15, 2009)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (sickvr666)*

Can you edit to include the complete auto scan. The data bus fault is a good indication that several other things are wrong besides the TM adapt error. The auto scan will clear things up a bit.
Also I'm gonna guess this is a MY 2000 or so, please correct me if I'm wrong. 
Edit:
Also check the battery condition and charging system. A faulty battery will cause a TM adapt Error. 


_Modified by Dana @ Ross-Tech at 1:44 PM 11-13-2009_


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (Dana @ Ross-Tech)*

I bet a tuning issue combined with some hardware problems that are incompatible.
I have seen quite a few cars with what you describe.
I would recommend a stock ecu for base testing. ( one that is verified )
If you want I can help you verify or even make a stock ecu for you.
8D0-907-551M I have the base file.
I would request what Dana said. What is the year?
Additionally air mass was also different between versions of this narrow production. Some cars have a Bosch and some have a Hitachi and I can tell you they are not compatible.
Nor are the files contained in the flash.
There were some kits doing a retro to the Hitachi but was more smoking mirrors and a gimmick to sell something rather then an advantage from what Ive seen. Everyone I have encountered I have removed.
The stock equipment for the proper hardware seemed to work fine for either. 
Best,
Jack
[email protected]


_Modified by vwemporium at 3:04 PM 11-13-2009_


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## sickvr666 (Oct 24, 2000)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (vwemporium)*

i do have a hitachi maf and yes the car is a 2000 6spd.
Im going to go try an auto scan right now.
Thanks a bunch so far guys. This is the most help i think ive ever gotton out of 9 years on these boards. I like this forum http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

EDIT: Here is the autoscan.

Friday,13,November,2009,15:43:14:06654
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018
Rocky Mannos
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 25 35 37 45 55 56 57 67 75 76 77

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-AZA.lbl
Part No: 8D0 907 551 M
Component: AutoSpeed Stage3G04_____ 
Coding: 06611
Shop #: WSC 06325 
3 Faults Found:
18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster 
P1650 - 35-00 - - 
17987 - Throttle Actuator (J338): Adaptation Not Started 
P1579 - 35-00 - - 
18010 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low 
P1602 - 35-00 - - 
Readiness: 0110 0100
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 111 A
Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D10 
Shop #: BB 24334 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8D0-820-043-1D.lbl
Part No: 8D0 820 043 P
Component: A4 KLIMAAUTOMAT D56 
Coding: 00160
Shop #: WSC 06325 
5 Faults Found:
00779 - Outside Air Temp Sensor (G17) 
30-00 - Open or Short to Plus
00603 - Footwell/defroster Flap Positioning Motor (V85) 
41-10 - Blocked or No Voltage - Intermittent
01272 - Positioning Motor for Central Flap (V70) 
41-10 - Blocked or No Voltage - Intermittent
00792 - A/C Pressure Switch (F129) 
31-00 - Open or Short to Ground
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time 
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8D0-959-655-AI8.lbl
Part No: 8D0 959 655 G
Component: Airbag Front+Kopf 0002 
Coding: 00304
Shop #: WSC 06325 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 8D0 920 980 D
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D09 
Coding: 02264
Shop #: WSC 00000 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8D0-862-257.lbl
Part No: 8L0 862 257 N
Component: CV-Pump D11 
Coding: 16140
Shop #: WSC 06325 
10 Faults Found:
01367 - Central Locking Pump Run Time Exceeded (Likely Leak) 
35-00 - - 
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side 
35-00 - - 
01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15 
35-00 - - 
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring 
35-00 - - 
01369 - Alarm triggered by Hood Switch 
35-00 - - 
01368 - Alarm triggered by Luggage Compartment Switch 
35-00 - - 
01365 - Lock/Unlock Switch; Interior 
29-00 - Short to Ground
00991 - Interior Lights 
28-00 - Short to Plus
00955 - Key 1 
09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed
00956 - Key 2 
09-00 - Adaptation Limit Surpassed
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
Part No: 4B0 951 173 
Component: Innenraumueberw. D03 
Coding: 00101
Shop #: WSC 06325 
3 Faults Found:
01381 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Rear Right 
35-00 - - 
01382 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Front Left 
35-00 - - 
01383 - Alarm triggered by Anti-Theft Sensor; Front Right 
35-00 - - 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Xenon Range Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.lbl
Part No: 4B0 907 357 
Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER D003 
Coding: 00012
Shop #: WSC 06325 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8D0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 8D0 035 195 A
Component: Radio D00 
Coding: 00117
Shop #: WSC 41901 
1 Fault Found:
00856 - Radio Antenna 
36-00 - Open Circuit
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


_Modified by sickvr666 at 3:57 PM 11-13-2009_


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (sickvr666)*

Well I see some stuff.
Data bus missing. 
Does it have spark? I mean a trigger.
Does it run at all?
It does crank right?
Are plugs loaded with fuel?
Pull dip stick and smell for heavy fuel vapors.
Is it getting fuel?
I see the CAT readiness byte is bypassed along with rear OXS's.
Give me some more info on basic data.
Do you have a serial port Hex-Com?
Best,
Jack


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## sickvr666 (Oct 24, 2000)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (vwemporium)*

Yes, it has spark.
It cranks like a mofo but no start!
im getting fuel. i pulled the dip stick and could definitely smell fuel. I replaced the plugs when this issue first happened so these plugs havent ran yet. They are still new so its kinda hard to see if they are getting flooded since there is no black around them. They do have fuel on them, just not sure how much. EDIT: just pulled the plugs, they are wet. Ill try again in the morning.
"I see the CAT readiness byte is bypassed along with rear OXS's."
Dont really understand that. I have DPs and exhaust. My 02's are fairly new. About 2000 miles.
EDIT:
Just got a new battery installed and got *18058 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from Instrument Cluster 
P1650 - 35-00 * taken care of
Erased DTCs and now my auto scan is :
Friday,13,November,2009,20:14:40:06654
VCDS Version: Release 908.1
Data version: 20091018
Rocky Mannos

Chassis Type: 8D - Audi A4 B5
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 25 35 37 45 55 56 57 67 75 76 77

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 078-907-551-AZA.lbl
Part No: 8D0 907 551 M
Component: AutoSpeed Stage3G04_____ 
Coding: 06611
Shop #: WSC 06325 
1 Fault Found:
17987 - Throttle Actuator (J338): Adaptation Not Started 
P1579 - 35-00 - - 
Readiness: 0110 0101
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-111-EDS.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 111 A
Component: ABS/EDS 5.3 QUATTRO D10 
Shop #: BB 24334 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8D0-820-043-1D.lbl
Part No: 8D0 820 043 P
Component: A4 KLIMAAUTOMAT D56 
Coding: 00160
Shop #: WSC 06325 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8D0-959-655-AI8.lbl
Part No: 8D0 959 655 G
Component: Airbag Front+Kopf 0002 
Coding: 00304
Shop #: WSC 06325 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
 Part No: 8D0 920 980 D
Component: B5-KOMBIINSTR. VDO D09 
Coding: 02264
Shop #: WSC 00000 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 35: Centr. Locks Labels: 8D0-862-257.lbl
Part No: 8L0 862 257 N
Component: CV-Pump D11 
Coding: 16140
Shop #: WSC 06325 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 4B0-951-173.lbl
Part No: 4B0 951 173 
Component: Innenraumueberw. D03 
Coding: 00101
Shop #: WSC 06325 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 55: Xenon Range Labels: 4B0-907-357-AUT.lbl
Part No: 4B0 907 357 
Component: LEUCHTWEITEREGLER D003 
Coding: 00012
Shop #: WSC 06325 
No fault code found.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8D0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 8D0 035 195 A
Component: Radio D00 
Coding: 00117
Shop #: WSC 41901 
No fault code found.
End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

The TB will still not adapt







= still no start









_Modified by sickvr666 at 8:31 PM 11-13-2009_


_Modified by sickvr666 at 10:40 PM 11-13-2009_


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## sickvr666 (Oct 24, 2000)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (sickvr666)*

dry plugs still nothing









"Do you have a serial port Hex-Com?"
its a KII-USB


_Modified by sickvr666 at 10:25 AM 11-14-2009_


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (sickvr666)*

Have you tried to start the S4 with the Hitachi MAF sensor disconnected? I had a 99 Audi A6
2.8l V6 30V ATQ with a no start and no codes. Somehow the Hitachi MAF caused the no start. Disconnecting the Hitachi MAF sensor allowed the car to start.


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## sickvr666 (Oct 24, 2000)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (Peter Badore)*

ive got a local guy "hans j" thats been helping me out also. ya, i unplugged the maf, TB and all injectors and it fired up. Long story short, i can get the car to start and it stays running but it wont start with the maf plugged in. It stays running if i plug the maf in after it starts..
Either way, for now atleast i got it started...now ill start messin with other things..
You guys have been a ton of help so far and i appreciate all of it. Im sure ill still have more ?s along the way but for now every peice of advice has been helpful. 
Thanks fellas http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (sickvr666)*

Have you tried to start the S4 with a new Hitachi MAF sensor plugged in?


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## vwemporium (May 27, 2002)

*Re: S4 wont start---17987 throttle actuator (sickvr666)*

Ok now we have some more data since you reset the DTC memory I see and you don't have a CAT bypass by your new byte status.
Its kind of hard to have CAT readiness if the car wasn't running first but I figured you would have at least done that already.
Ok do this. and a key cycle between each step.
01-10-00 save data ATR ( ATR= Answer to reset )
01-07-same data ATR
01-02 then 05 reset DTC ATR
01-08-060 report this data back here if in error or ADP-OK.
Take boot off at TB Y boot. Have someone go in car and step on pedal see if plate moves at all 15 on.
Clean and manipulate throttle plate by hand to exercise also spray with light lube.
Shut down fuel by unpluging at top of fuel tank to stop flood.
Drain oil and change to remove fuel.
Then run car until it dies on vapors. 
Then start over if DTC still exists. Check grounds and fuses related to EPC and verify harness wires back to ECM via WD.
It is very rare a EPC fails. Also could be a compounded issue such as harness or TB related causing damage to each ECM you install taking out a driver.
This can happen if stupid code has been written to the flash but could also just be a plain defective part.
Remember we want to fix the cause and the effect here.
Sometimes unplugging the Maf will work for some diagnosis purposes. It can also cause some issues to, depending which side of the threshold the ecu has learned to adapt to.
Also some tuners will remove map data from the maf and have attempted this to use a map sensor signal or a rpm load request signal, to circumvent, to tune easier. Its a crappy short cut.
Report back








Best,
Jack


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