# TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!!



## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

Hello all

I am currently in the information gathering stages of a future engine conversion project. I would like to put a 1.9l TDI into a early 70's VW karmann Ghia. Mating one of the nicest looking classic VW chassis with one of the best VW engine sounds like a great idea to me.
Here is the info i am in need of:
1. physical dimensions of various TDI's engines(ie 1.9, 1.8, A3, A4)
2. Weights of various TDI engines
3. cooling requirements (ei. radiator size)
As i will most likely be removing the engine from the donor car myself, i would like to know how much of the electronics i need to salvage. I know i need the ECU but do i also need accelerator petal sensor or other items behind the dash?
I would also like any advise, comments and/or warnings from anyone, especially anyone who has experience placing a TDI engine into a non-TDI car. 

Thanx in advance,
Mike


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*

I have seen a 1.8 8V in a Bug. It required modifying the engine cover. HE had a VW Polo radiator in the front. It made the rear of the car really heavy. 2 people can easily lift an AC engine to the workbench. Try that with a TDI. Think about that weight in your little old car. You would want to switch to a bus trans like the sand rail guys use. This can be done but I wouldn't bother. There are too many cheap, good aircooled solutions to bother with an oil burning frankenstein although it would get great mileage and be able to burn the tires at will.


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (art.clemens)*


_Quote, originally posted by *art.clemens* »_bother with an oil burning frankenstein although it would get great mileage and be able to burn the tires at will.


That is the whole point.
I would like to mate the best VW has. That would be the sexiest VW ever made with one of the best Diesel engines on the market (which just happens to be a VW TDI)
Yes it would be a 
_Quote, originally posted by *art.clemens* »_oil burning frankenstein
. but it would be one sexy frankenstein whith a whole lot a guts, stanima and additude.


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## vwsnaps (Jan 2, 2000)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*

I've been trying to gather some info on swapping a 1.9 tdi into my 86 gti. Search my user name and the subject tdi swap and you'll find a couple of good links.
Sean Castner


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## bengone1 (Jun 17, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (mr.vwcastner)*

i think itsa cool idea. and two people can lift a fully dressed 1.8T/1.9TDI/4cyl watercooler. you might need bigger friends. have you sourced the motor yet? if you are serious with cash in hand there are lots of places in PA to get donors


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (mr.vwcastner)*

Thanx Sean
I will need all the help and info i can get.


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (bengone1)*

I have not yet started looking for a donor. When i do i have a few requierments.
1: The engine must run well
2: i need A complete wireing harness
3: i need all cooling (air, water, ect.)
4: I may want the A/C and heating
5: maby even the tranny.








Most likely i will need to buy a complete car. That will be much ceaper than trying to get every thing from salvage yards, dealers, and ebay. If i can find one local (SoCal) than i should be able to get one thats has major rearend damage for a good price. If i find a good deal out of CA than i must be able to rive it home or find a good deal on shipping a complete car. 
The only prices i have gotten have been for engine and harness only. 3.5k on the west coast and 2.8k + shipping on the east coast.
I would like to find a complete car for 4-5k.


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## swingwing205 (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Ghia* »_I have not yet started looking for a donor. When i do i have a few requierments.
1: The engine must run well
2: i need A complete wireing harness
3: i need all cooling (air, water, ect.)
4: I may want the A/C and heating
5: maby even the tranny.








Most likely i will need to buy a complete car. That will be much ceaper than trying to get every thing from salvage yards, dealers, and ebay. If i can find one local (SoCal) than i should be able to get one thats has major rearend damage for a good price. If i find a good deal out of CA than i must be able to rive it home or find a good deal on shipping a complete car. 
The only prices i have gotten have been for engine and harness only. 3.5k on the west coast and 2.8k + shipping on the east coast.
I would like to find a complete car for 4-5k.


A TDI into an old Ghia would be sweet, ultra reliable, and give you great mileage and roast tires. Awesome idea! Good luck finding a donor, but wrecked diesels are getting a little more common. If you're looking for a MK4 wreck, be patient, but you'll find something soon, just keep looking. There are a lot more MK4's that are TDI's than MK3's, as it seems like it's the "in" motor to have. 
If you're looking for a MK3, you're going to be looking for a while, because they're close to non-existant. I was going to do a TDI swap into a Vanagon, but I wanted a MK3 wreck so I could have CEII wiring. I searched pretty hard, and finally found one, but it had way too many miles on it, and the price didn't reflect the mileage.


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (swingwing205)*

Call me stupid, but i am still a newbie. could some one please enlighten me on the use of acronyms. 
MK3, MK4, CEII, and any others you find useful.
I am sure it is something simple, but i do not make guesses.


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## swingwing205 (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*

Sure, no probs.....
MK3 & MK4: 3rd and 4th generation Golf and Jetta
CEII (or CE2): a wiring standard introduced by VW in early '90, for almost all cars produced worldround by VW. This wiring standard makes swaps into other like cars very easy. Since all VW passenger cars that were inported into the US (except the Cabriolet, or MK1 Golf conv.) since '90 (until the newest gen, the MK4, from '00 on...)used CEII wiring, motors and such are interchangeable on an almost plug and play basis. EXAMPLE: If you have a '92 Golf,, and you wish to swap in a '90 Corrado G60 motor, both of which have CEII wiring, you can basically remove the old engine and engine electronics, and put in the donor motor, and the plug in ports in the fuse box are the same. There is a slight bit more work than that, but not much. 
Hope this helps.....


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (swingwing205)*

Yes it does. 
That is basically what i thought, but it helps to have conformation.
I will try to get a 95-98 1.9l A3 TDI for my swap ( This would MK 3, no?) 
as this is going into a late 60s-early 70s VW Ghia, CEII (or CE2) will not mean squat. except that A3 (= MK3 = CEII???) wiring does not require the instrument panel, correct? Patching a TDI panel in a Ghia would be more unwanted trouble. 
I plan to have the engine wiring on its own circuit, completely separate from the car harness. Even with a separate starter switch. I would like to the entire engine, harness and all removable and bench runnable (ie run, test and tune on a bench outside of the car). If an engine can be started on a bench, it can be stuffed in any car.







(Space willing







) 
still need info on mid engine mounting on a type 1 chassis


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## MrDave (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Ghia* »_I will try to get a 95-98 1.9l A3 TDI for my swap 

Should work well for you. Good luck finding one though.

_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Ghia* »_Patching a TDI panel in a Ghia would be more unwanted trouble. 

With the A3/Mk3 engine, you won't need the cluster.
You may want to install a tach though, and you'll need some way to
run the speedo.

_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Ghia* »_I plan to have the engine wiring on its own circuit, completely separate from the car harness. 

circuits 30, 31, 15, and X. Shouldn't be too much trouble.
Don't forget that all electronic TDIs are drive by wire, so 
you'll have to mount the pedal, or rig up the stock cable to run the pedal.

_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Ghia* »_still need info on mid engine mounting on a type 1 chassis

Take a peek at what these guys are doing:
http://www.centralvwaudi.com/Beetproj.htm 
-Dave


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## veedubin6 (Mar 16, 2001)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (MrDave)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MrDave* »_
Take a peek at what these guys are doing:
http://www.centralvwaudi.com/Beetproj.htm 
-Dave

Paul at Centralvwaudi is a great guy and is full of info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## veedubin6 (Mar 16, 2001)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*

for more info and people that have put watercoolers in aircooled vw`s check out http://www.shoptalkforums.com/ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pfoof (Feb 19, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (veedubin6)*

Using a 1.6L TD engine would be alot easier bc there's only one or two wires to deal with (fuel shut-off + alternator), cheaper, more available, I saw somewhere you can buy a rebuilt TD engine for around $2000. 
Crazy, but neat http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DeaconFrost (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (pfoof)*

He could use a 1.9 TD or use a 1.9na and bolt all the stuff from a 1.6TD and call it a day. A local VW shop does this all the time. If using the TDI engine get the one from the automatic because it will sport the larger injection pump... and then swap the injectors out and chip that puppy. But I think you would be able to tune out the 1.9TD and be very pleased with the results.
In the past 15 years I have seen some wild things done with ghia's... most go with the corvair engine, but I did see one honda engine conversion and in OKC Oklahoma I looked over a ghia fiero conversion. The guy actually graph'd the transaxle/engine rear half of the fiero into the ghia. I believe he went with the 2.8 V6 engine. This was like 1993ish.


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (DeaconFrost)*

Yes, a simple TD engine would be quick and easy. But it would not be unique. Well, maybe in a Ghia but it has been done many times in buses.
Thx for the input, keep it coming.
I am still leaning towards a TDI. Now i need info on Mid engine mounting and suspensions to replace the stock torsion bar.


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## DeaconFrost (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*

TDI's have been placed in buses too. There is a custom shop here... i forget the guys name but he has a 23window deluxe.... he does a ton of custom work... last time i spoke with him (like 3 years ago) he was talking how he had placed TDI engines in VW buses. So it has been done with a TDI too.... I believe Kennedy has the adapters and clutch setups to do the conversion. You have to come up with the mounting points ofcourse... but you already know that. anything can be done with enough money and time. i think you should hit Kennedy up and see what he says. He has a website too. used to have a ton of usefull information but I havent visited his site in a while.. and last time I talked with him I was trying to get information on mating a mazda 13B in a TypeIII Notchback.


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (DeaconFrost)*

I live a few miles from the Kennedy shop. they do have the adapter to stick s TDI in a bus but it leans the engine a lot, not needed if i go with a mid engine. i have also heard that any VW engine is a direct bolt on to any VW tranny.(true or false? i do not know). but that would be sweet.


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## DeaconFrost (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*

Almost all your water cooled VW's have the same bolt pattern. So if you get an adapter to bolt a 1.6 to something that a 1.8, G60's, any of the diesels sold in north america (minus one but dont worry bout it cause its something you dont want and it wont fit), They all share the same bolt pattern. All aircooled share the same bolt pattern. Im not up on the waterboxers because I never owned one. But I think they have the same bolt pattern as the aircooled. I did look at them in the early 90's as a possible conversion motor for a notchback but it then I saw that sweet subbie conversion out of Washington State using the subbie 6 banger boxer which is something like 260hp out of the box. Guy ran the radiator up front... I think the VR6 has a different bolt pattern then the others too.


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## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (TDI_Ghia)*

Two things for you to consider:
If you really want to go mid-mount, you are talking about custom-building an entire chasis, so it wouldn't really be a Ghia at all. IF you have a LOT of fabricating experience, this can be done, but by the questions you are asking, I take it that this is not the case. Why do I say this? Because you have missed ther obvious - the TDI bolts up nicely to its own transmission and the whole thing can be mounted transverse with the parts from a single donor car (and a LOT of chasis fabbing). This is really the PhD level of transplant, not what you want as a novice.
Second, if you really want to do this, but still want it to BE a Ghia, use the watercooled Vanagon diesel trans and bolt the tdi directly to it. Then, dump the electronic crap and just go mechanical pump, using the tdi injectors and you have an all-mechanical, super-simple, throttle by pull wire, fuel solenoid, glow plug and everything else just plug in gauge connections swap (except of course the rad, but that's another story).
Pat


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## TDI_Ghia (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: TDI engine conversion in VW Ghia!!!!! (Pat Dolan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat Dolan* »_
IF you have a LOT of fabricating experience, this can be done, but by the questions you are asking, I take it that this is not the case. ....
... This is really the PhD level of transplant, not what you want as a novice.


Wow, you really are perceptive, aren't you. What tipped you off on my lack of 
experience? Was it the fist post were i asked for advice on some crazy idea







? Or was it halfway through the thread were you read this

_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Ghia* »_Call me stupid, but i am still a newbie. 

Any one that thinks they know every thing about bugs, ghias TDIs, VWs and/or engine swaps would never even consider an idea like this. i takes some dumb-ass, know-nothin', novice like me to come along and just do the impossible. Then, after its all done, the "experts" come along and do it better. who the heck came up with the idea of putting a water cooler in a air-cooled VeeDub? How about a V6, or even a V8. OOO, Wait, Putting the engine in the front of a rear engined bug!!!??? All crazy gooffs with a dream and no idea that it could not be done.
But really, Thank you. You honor me.
Now let me respond
Two things I have considered:
First: Yes, I really want to go mid-mount, no other setup will be safe to use as a daily driver. I hope to ro this with minimal chassis modification. A Ghia is a Ghia, You see a Ghia pass you on the street and what do you do? You look again. but any one that knows just a little about air-cooled VWs, knows that a Ghia is just a sexy shell hiding a VW Beetle







.(No joke) 

_Quote, originally posted by *Pat Dolan* »_Because you have missed ther obvious - the TDI bolts up nicely to its own transmission and the whole thing can be mounted transverse with the parts from a single donor car (and a LOT of chassis fabbing)

I am sorry. I must correct myself, You are not to preceptive. Why do i say this? Because you miss the not so obvious. If you actually read the post you Will come across this little statement:

_Quote, originally posted by *TDI_Ghia* »_
I have not yet started looking for a donor. When i do i have a few requirements.
1: The engine must run well
2: i need A complete wiring harness
3: i need all cooling (air, water, ect.)
4: I may want the A/C and heating
5: maby even the tranny.


One who is perceptive would have gathered that by the last statement "5:" that i have thought of using the TDIs tranny. And if one were to do a search and read my other threads on the same subject matter, one would find that this option has be brushed upon. Yes it is a difficult transplant, and yes, it is one i want, even as a novice. 
Second: I really want to do this, and yes, it will still be a Ghia. 
_Quote, originally posted by *Pat Dolan* »_still want it to BE a Ghia, use the water-cooled Vanagon diesel 
If you must say that altering the chassis would make the Ghia stop being a Ghia, Then you must also say that using a bus tranny would do the same. No i do not wish to use a TD (note the absence of the "I"),nor do i wish to 
_Quote, originally posted by *Pat Dolan* »_dump the electronic crap and just go mechanical pump
 thus losing all of the benefits of the ECU. Any direction i choose to go ( ghia tranny or jetta/golf/passat tranny) can be set up with a cable shift. A complete engine pull out of the donor, including wiring harness should be able to be dropped right in the Ghia. no "Super-Simple" anything needed. Its a done deal, 

_Quote, originally posted by *Pat Dolan* »_(except of course the rad, but that's another story).

Yes, that is another story. But a short one. It does not take a PHD to do simple plumbing. 
But really, You inspire me. I like to read post like yours. I makes me feel good knowing that i am doing something that cant be done. when this project sees the light and is finished, i well show it to the world and i hope to get an update on your previous post.
Thank you all, Now how about some advice, info, sugestions, and/or links that will move this project forward?


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## Ratmk2jetta (Dec 20, 2013)

*full TDI swap*



TDI_Ghia said:


> <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Pat Dolan</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>IF you have a LOT of fabricating experience, this can be done, but by the questions you are asking, I take it that this is not the case. ....<br>... This is really the PhD level of transplant, not what you want as a novice.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>Wow, you really are perceptive, aren't you. What tipped you off on my lack of <br>experience? Was it the fist post were i asked for advice on some crazy idea <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/zeroforum_graphics/screwy.gif" BORDER="0"> ? Or was it halfway through the thread were you read this<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TDI_Ghia</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Call me stupid, but i am still a newbie. </TD></TR></TABLE><p>Any one that thinks they know every thing about bugs, ghias TDIs, VWs and/or engine swaps would never even consider an idea like this. i takes some dumb-ass, know-nothin', novice like me to come along and just do the impossible. Then, after its all done, the "experts" come along and do it better. who the heck came up with the idea of putting a water cooler in a air-cooled VeeDub? How about a V6, or even a V8. OOO, Wait, Putting the engine in the front of a rear engined bug!!!??? All crazy gooffs with a dream and no idea that it could not be done.<p>But really, Thank you. You honor me.<p>Now let me respond<p>Two things I have considered:<p>First: Yes, I really want to go mid-mount, no other setup will be safe to use as a daily driver. I hope to ro this with minimal chassis modification. A Ghia is a Ghia, You see a Ghia pass you on the street and what do you do? You look again. but any one that knows just a little about air-cooled VWs, knows that a Ghia is just a sexy shell hiding a VW Beetle <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/eek.gif" BORDER="0"> .(No joke) <p><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Pat Dolan</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Because you have missed ther obvious - the TDI bolts up nicely to its own transmission and the whole thing can be mounted transverse with the parts from a single donor car (and a LOT of chassis fabbing)</TD></TR></TABLE><p>I am sorry. I must correct myself, You are not to preceptive. Why do i say this? Because you miss the not so obvious. If you actually read the post you Will come across this little statement:<br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>TDI_Ghia</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"><br>I have not yet started looking for a donor. When i do i have a few requirements.<br>1: The engine must run well<br>2: i need A complete wiring harness<br>3: i need all cooling (air, water, ect.)<br>4: I may want the A/C and heating<br>5: maby even the tranny.<br></TD></TR></TABLE><p>One who is perceptive would have gathered that by the last statement "5:" that i have thought of using the TDIs tranny. And if one were to do a search and read my other threads on the same subject matter, one would find that this option has be brushed upon. Yes it is a difficult transplant, and yes, it is one i want, even as a novice. <p>Second: I really want to do this, and yes, it will still be a Ghia. <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Pat Dolan</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">still want it to BE a Ghia, use the water-cooled Vanagon diesel </TD></TR></TABLE>If you must say that altering the chassis would make the Ghia stop being a Ghia, Then you must also say that using a bus tranny would do the same. No i do not wish to use a TD (note the absence of the "I"),nor do i wish to <TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Pat Dolan</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">dump the electronic crap and just go mechanical pump</TD></TR></TABLE> thus losing all of the benefits of the ECU. Any direction i choose to go ( ghia tranny or jetta/golf/passat tranny) can be set up with a cable shift. A complete engine pull out of the donor, including wiring harness should be able to be dropped right in the Ghia. no "Super-Simple" anything needed. Its a done deal, <br><TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD><i>Quote, originally posted by <b>Pat Dolan</b> »</i></TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">(except of course the rad, but that's another story).</TD></TR></TABLE><p>Yes, that is another story. But a short one. It does not take a PHD to do simple plumbing. <p>But really, You inspire me. I like to read post like yours. I makes me feel good knowing that i am doing something that cant be done. when this project sees the light and is finished, i well show it to the world and i hope to get an update on your previous post.<p>Thank you all, Now how about some advice, info, sugestions, and/or links that will move this project forward?<br>


. I have a full 1z/ahh TDI swap for sale you make me a good price and its yours if interested txt me 423 -213-4644


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## Ratmk2jetta (Dec 20, 2013)

Ratmk2jetta said:


> . I have a full 1z/ahu TDI swap for sale you make me a good price and its yours if interested txt me 423 -213-4644


 my name is Bradley just lmk


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