# MKV 2.0T FSI issue



## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

*MKV 2.0T FSI issue **SOLVED***

**Problem Solved**

Short version: It was the PRV.
Long version: I will post a breakdown of each diagnoses, each step taken, each part replaced and what lead me to each part and why. Heading home very soon and I hope a breakdown will help others possibly figure out their problem matches and what to do.


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Hey, I'm of course new, used the forums countless times for quick information but I'm not really on the computer much to join. Was apart of the GTA VDubb group on FB years ago, but kids born takes time away from the computer so apologies for only using the forums for research without saying hi or anything.

That said, i'm 2000 km from home (1200miles) and a limp car. I've had the P0087 code for years, two $300 or so diagnostics later still had a mechanic unable to find the problem. Later figured it's time I start learning more about my motor since it's my second one in this car after the last HPFP punched through the follower and was later charged by a local "mechanic" charging me $10,000 for work done and new motor. To the point, it was time to learn about my FSI engine and it's inherent issues. 

I've spent weeks researching the MANY common issues to the generic codes. I after driving down the Florida opted to try and save a few $$ on VCDS and went the OBD Eleven route (Wish I just went with VCDS but that's a whole other story)

I was getting the usual jerking around when driving as if the car was starving for fuel. Not to mention It was very tough to start the car. I already needed a few things done, so i replaced all 4 coils and plugs with OEM and also replaced with a new OEM fuel filter. 
Now the car is firing up normal but has a rough idle and has that feeling of needing more fuel. Pulled up the rear seat to peak at the LPFP fuel module to see if it was overheating or burnt out, it honestly appears new and under load only gets warm to the touch. 

Getting deeper in to diagnosing the issue now. Replaced the low pressure sensor on the HPFP with OEM updated version 06E 906 051k, I found the car less jerky when driving, felt decent boost under load (Car is REVO Stage 1) but still had intermittent loss of power and also miss firing p0300 0301 0302. Now it feels like the car is in a low pressure setting or something. So following Ross-Tech's guide as best I could with OBDEleven I could still data log and access the same groups.

I did as they suggested from second gear and third at 2000 RPM to red line. Since OBDE (great in ways but kicking myself for not going with the HEX cable) only shows the log on the phone I can post a screenshot if asked but I'll explain what I was getting.

I data logged group 231 and 230 the LPFP and HPFP.

under 60% load group 231 lift pump was calling for 6300mbar the pump delivered 6200mbar
The issue comes with the HPFP readings at the same 60% load group 230 it's expected value was 99bar and it was getting 19bar. Field 3 on VCDS on their FAQ is Value 7 group 230 on OBDEleven is the deviation between the specified and actual according the Ross-Tech. Shouldn't be more than 5bar. My reading was 80.46bar deviation. 

I'll actually post screnshot. Trust me, I know many prefer VCDS as did I since I've had friends use it for me to do some long coding for me and always wanted it, but in a pinch I was trying to save a few dollars while stuck here with possible expensive parts needed to be replaced. 

My question if you can manage to decipher my info above, is would you go with replacing the HPFP since the LPFP appears to be providing the specified readings? Appreciate any advice. 

*Something i forgot to mention* above is I already pulled the HPFP off and looked at the follower and lobe. Both are in good condition. Also have photos of that. Lobe had no damage from what I could see, no scuffs, nothing like I had with my last motor when it punched through.


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## kjr6306 (Sep 12, 2007)

What does the cam lobe look like for the HPFP? I have seen some worn down so far that it would prevent the HPFP from producing the required fuel pressure....


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

kjr6306 said:


> What does the cam lobe look like for the HPFP? I have seen some worn down so far that it would prevent the HPFP from producing the required fuel pressure....


The cam follower and the lobe are in good condition. I'm going to replace the HPFP anyway and though the follower only has about 15,000km on it right now since it was last changed, I'm going to change it again with the new pump. Lobe had no signs of damage at all. Also felt the follower and not even a small nick on it. Checking both of those were the first things I started with I also thought I was in for a bad day removing the pump and expecting something bad. Thankfully I believe the cam sh aft is the updated version since If memory serves, was originally recalled. No visible fuel leaks anywhere.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

You may want to check your fuel pressure relief valve (PRV). If it is stuck open the HPFP will have to work hard just to keep the engine idling.
Performance-Rail-Valve-what-is-it-and-why-do-you-need-one
You can test it by turning *off* the engine after it is up to temperature and watching group 230. As the fuel trapped in the HP lines is heat soaked by the engine the pressure will increase. Once the pressure gets high enough the PRV will open (takes approx. 10 minutes). Normal is 120Bar.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

quietA3guy said:


> You may want to check your fuel pressure relief valve (PRV). If it is stuck open the HPFP will have to work hard just to keep the engine idling.
> Performance-Rail-Valve-what-is-it-and-why-do-you-need-one
> You can test it by turning *off* the engine after it is up to temperature and watching group 230. As the fuel trapped in the HP lines is heat soaked by the engine the pressure will increase. Once the pressure gets high enough the PRV will open (takes approx. 10 minutes). Normal is 120Bar.


Yeah that's the one I'm afraid may be the culprit in the end. Like an idiot, I dropped my HPFP (slipped out of m hand) straight on the plunger and I don't feel great about trying to continue using it. Looks like a new HPFP is on order for me and if that doesn't fix it, I have a feeling that will be the next step.

So to confirm, shut off, reconnect to my OBD, hop on group 230 and monitor which field? Most research I've done was advice on VCDS, so I try to navigate OBDEleven as closely as I can to VCDS. I'm also going to check the link, but I'm going to assume the PRV is the valve just below the manifold. Any tricks to changing this part? It's a fairly inexpensive part to replace, just a matter of figuring out how to get at it without the removal of the manifold.

Thanks for the troubleshooting tip. The PRV was something I read a lot about getting stuck open, but never knew of a way to test that out.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

rePool said:


> *So to confirm, shut off, reconnect to my OBD, hop on group 230 and monitor which field*? Most research I've done was advice on VCDS, so I try to navigate OBDEleven as closely as I can to VCDS. I'm also going to check the link, but I'm going to assume the PRV is the valve just below the manifold. Any tricks to changing this part? It's a fairly inexpensive part to replace, just a matter of figuring out how to get at it without the removal of the manifold.
> 
> Thanks for the troubleshooting tip. The PRV was something I read a lot about getting stuck open, but never knew of a way to test that out.


Per your screen capture you will want to monitor channel 230 value 6 (current HPFP pressure) after turning engine off. Takes awhile but if you have no leaks in your system and the valve is sealing correctly the pressure should slowly but steadily increase until the valve opens at its cracking pressure. You will hear a short high pitched squeak if your head is under the hood when it releases. If the pressure quickly drops to less then 10bar after shutdown then I would think it is your PRV stuck open.

How to remove PRV with Crows Feet.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

quietA3guy said:


> Per your screen capture you will want to monitor channel 230 value 6 (current HPFP pressure) after turning engine off. Takes awhile but if you have no leaks in your system and the valve is sealing correctly the pressure should slowly but steadily increase until the valve opens at its cracking pressure. You will hear a short high pitched squeak if your head is under the hood when it releases. If the pressure quickly drops to less then 10bar after shutdown then I would think it is your PRV stuck open.
> 
> How to remove PRV with Crows Feet.


You're awesome and I'll give it a try. If that ends up being the problem I'll owe you a case of beer or something as a thank you.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

quietA3guy said:


> Per your screen capture you will want to monitor channel 230 value 6 (current HPFP pressure) after turning engine off. Takes awhile but if you have no leaks in your system and the valve is sealing correctly the pressure should slowly but steadily increase until the valve opens at its cracking pressure. You will hear a short high pitched squeak if your head is under the hood when it releases. If the pressure quickly drops to less then 10bar after shutdown then I would think it is your PRV stuck open.
> 
> How to remove PRV with Crows Feet.



I should also mention the part with VCDS diagnosing the fuel pumps, where they say the measure group 103 field 2: Fuel pump adaptation, specification: -1000.. +1000 %

I'm not quite sure what that part of the diagnoses is on VCDS, but the reading I get was way out of the spec. I was at -2000. Haven't been able to figure out what that part means though.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Hey,

Just put the old pump back on since this has been bothering me, while doing it I noticed my cam position sensor loose for some reason, tightened that, had myself convinced after firing it up and it idling nice that all was good, but it's not.

Odd part is, while driving, same issue with low pressure, group 230, was calling for 100bar at 100km\h between 4-5th gear, it was only getting 29-30bar. Weird part I mentioned was no misfires while driving, only idling.
Other than the misfires, on idle, I was at 5bar with car running, so she wasn't going higher for that test, but I wanted to see what would happen and when turning the car off, it stayed at 5 bar and went up to 6 bar, almost hit 7 and it just sits.

I don't see it reaching any kind of cracking pressure if the car isn't getting any pressure in the first place. I was also able to get a much better look in the dark with a work light of my cam lobe and it's perfect, not a single mark on it. 

In terms of your test, since it did some what build up a bar or two, I don't think it's stuck open if that's the case, what do you think?

edit: Since I'm feeling the car almost like it's on a limited setting by the ECM, I can't help but wonder about the G247 sensor. I'm looking at some documentation I have found online and one thing says "If the fuel pressure sensor G247 fails, the engine control module j220 sets the fuel pressure regulating valve n276 at a predetermined fixed pressure)

I can't help but wonder. I feel like the car is in limp mode, I don't have any power, but if I wasn't concerned over power, I'd think the car ran perfectly while driving, just low pressure but no drops while driving.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

Could still be your valve. 
If I remember correctly pressure at idle should be something like 50bar not 5bar. 
Ether the sensor is reporting the wrong pressure or the pump isn't able to make enough pressure. 
You could check injector timing. If the sensor is wrong and the pressure is good then injector timing will be normal. If the sensor is correct and pressure is bad then injector timing will be maxed out.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Did my best based on your suggestion. Group 101 and 102 for injection timing. From what I read, 5ms is normal for idle. both groups showing aprox the same at between 3.5 & 4.3ish \ms.
Though it is warm in Florida right now, the car went from i believe it's called closed loop to open loop on a cold start and fluctuated from 6bar-9\bar on idle with a decently rough idle. Misfires on 1, 2 and 4, most misfires are on 1 at 12 the other two were at around 4-5.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

Sorry doesn't look like ether of my recommendations gave you the definitive answer I was hooping for. Diagnosing a problem is often more difficult then actually fixing it. At least you have narrowed it down to the high pressure side and know all the parts involved. 
Good luck and please update the thread when fixed so that anyone else searching for the same problem will see the solution.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

quietA3guy said:


> Sorry doesn't look like ether of my recommendations gave you the definitive answer I was hooping for. Diagnosing a problem is often more difficult then actually fixing it. At least you have narrowed it down to the high pressure side and know all the parts involved.
> Good luck and please update the thread when fixed so that anyone else searching for the same problem will see the solution.




Thanks for your efforts. Though this is beyond stressful when stuck 2000km away from home, i'm lucky enough to be with family.... just trapped. Not to worry, I will be updating this thread because one thing I've noticed among so many threads on so many sites is many don't seem to update the fix and it drives me nuts.
I'll be making sure to keep this post updated for anyone else that may be having similar issues. One thing is for sure...I've been learning a lot through the whole process. Building enough confidence in doing most of my own work on my own car finally and surprisingly seems to be a very easy engine to work on to a point.

Anyhow, new HPFP arrives tomorrow, supposed to rain, so i'm hoping to get it done tomorrow or Saturday and will post an update. Thanks again.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Update:

Replaced the fuel pump and it didn't fix the issue. Still low pressure on the high pressure side. Same as the last pump. For sake of reference I'll post the photo of my follower and lobe. Follower is due for a replacement but as said above, no scuffs, no indentation, just usual wear.










Next on this not so awesome adventure is what was suggested above, the PRV. I am really not looking forward to it after feeling frustrated with this whole ordeal. There was
simply zero change on the high pressure side with the new HPFP. Before jumping in on this PRV, any tips or tricks?


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

I have a question for anyone that may just be following but not responded.

I have the new HPFP on, still same problem as i said a post above. Thing I noticed though is when releasing pressure at the schrader valve on the new pump, it seems like a lot more pressure is built up and much more fuel expelled compared to the old pump.
I also noticed with the new pump with the engine warm, pressure kept actually building with the car off and I had to continue releasing it via the schrader valve. It almost seems like I'm getting better pressure just from noticing that.

Via OBD I still see low pressure on group 230. car at 5500rpm wanted 109bar but the sensor was saying the pump was only pushing 49bar.

(I thought my schrader valve was screwed since fuel pressure tester wasn't working but tester is cheap junk)

Heck, i'm even going as far as considering a MAF sensor


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Since the thread is pretty dead, can I get some possible opinions on why people think of driving the car home as is with the new HPFP on it?

Drives smooth, no misfures just half the power. rough idle and misfures but when i said rough, it's not even remotely near stalling, just more or less you can feel the misfires.
Just wondering on thoughts on driving home on half the power - 1200 miles 2000km?

I'm positive I'll end up with a crap fuel economy just not sure how bad.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

I'm not sure if this helps but to keep the thread updated, I wanted to point out my LTFT is -14% and VE was at 30% and if i understand VE sounds low and car running rich. which is likely the cause of the misfires and rough idle.

I went from cold Canada to warm Florida. Trouble happened down here day after arriving. I tested the MAF harness and I was getting 12V and a good ground. MAF could be bad, not sure, tried a MAF cleaner with no change in result. :banghead::banghead:


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Quick update:

Noticed a screw/bolt actually missing from the PCV cover left side and it was heavily pushed out. I was seriously wondering why the top of the engine was such a mess. I didn't replace the valve gasket (should i?) just had a spare bolt and put it back in, went for a test drive and still no power and lots of misfires on idle. 

I'm going to check to listen to make sure my injectors are firing tonight and also tested voltages, ground from coil harness. All is good there. Car is still running rich since Long term fuel trim is still -14%. I've gone as far as considering valve cover gasket but I don't see it causing THIS bad of a power loss and fuel rail pressure not getting above 40. Aside from PCV cover I don't see any visible sign of it needing done.

Still trying to figure this out.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

I would expect low fuel pressure to make the engine run lean not rich. That suggests to me that the fuel pressure is actually good but the sensor is just reporting the wrong pressure. A quick search shows that when the sensor goes bad it normally displays a different error then the one your getting, but I still think I would replace it. When buying a new one make sure you get the right one for your VIN. I remember there being a TSB about two different G247's that look the same but are only compatible with certain VIN's


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

What's funny with that, is I was reading a thread somewhere about "if you had an engine swap etc"... I DID have an engine swap but that was 49k miles ago. I figured I'd have seen an issue some time after that swap in regards to it being the wrong g247. That said, going with that, where would I reference the VIN to the right G247? I know i'm asking here ahead of actually googling it as I will do that right after posting at hope to figure it out.

I'll peak around, replace it and update. Once I get it replaced, I will update the thread.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

Talk to dealer.
Your original post says you have been having fuel pressure problems for years. If you are sure that the replacement engine ran properly for a time and the sensor hasn't been replaced since, then get the newest version of what is already in there. Otherwise I would try to get the part number off of the ecu 
(Rosstech) and have the dealer confirm the g247 for it.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Hey,

Ordered a G247, had a site that sort of explains how to get in under the manifold, but anyone have experience removing that sensor? The manifold doesn't need to come off but I can't see how a wrench would have enough room between inlet 1-2 on the manifold to unscrew the sensor. Taking advice on another site, i simply can't find any wiggle room with the water hose moved to get in there.

Any suggestions, tools i'm not thinking about at the moment as my means to tools where i am are limited.


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## quietA3guy (Oct 12, 2007)

A couple of guys are dealing with similar problems on the mkv forum. One of them mentioned how difficult it was to replace the g247. http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198286

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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Yeah i debated which forum to join, don't really browse over there often. I got it done, removed the double ended screw that held the dip stick in, used a tripple square 27mm deep socket because it's all i had and it fit perfect, 5 inch extension and got it installed removing the screw (on mine not a nut) on the left of manifold holding AC return hose i believe it is.

Also disconnected the harness to the alternator for extra clearance and was able to get right in there perfectly with a little effort.

Cleared CEL, went for 15 minute drive and felt additional power, readings on the long term fuel trim are near perfect at 0.3 i think it was from a -14.0. I've heard people talk about needing to drive a decent amount until it smoothed out, not sure if true.

G247 is actually rather easy sensor to access once you figure out how. I should have possibly videoed it since there is a lackluster amount of info on doing this sensor online. Will update more soon and i'll check out over there if I am able to help anyone i'll help out.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Still at this trying to figure it out. Literally grasping at straws now, trying to avoid driving it over an hour away to a shop for a $120 an hour diagnostics.


*Parts replaced so far:*


Sparkplugs
Coils
fuel filter
HPFP with new OEM
Low pressure sensor
high pressure sensor on the rail
MAF sensor

Should have just brought it in to be diagnosed, but I didn't expect to be trapped for 2 months or have a nearly new fuel system. 

Only thing left is the PRV but I really don't have the tools to get int here.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Even though it's a dead thread, for the sake of noting each test, I did a compression test on all 4 cylinders.
I'm getting 170 PSI on 1-3 and about 175ish on 4. I believe I'm more than ok on compression from what I've read.


Next on the list of things to attempt is O2 sensor.

I can't hear or find any signs of a vacuum leak, we're misfiring on all 4 with the long term fuel trim at -14 again. Something from what I'm reading is pointing to a sensor. Just which one.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Bought a Mechanic's Stethoscope since the old screwdriver trick seemed a little tricky considering the injectors are hidden pretty well. From what I believe all 4 injectors sound fine. No irregularities. Noticed smell of gas in oil after checking dipstick. Which lead me back to something I noticed 2 months ago with my PCV valve.

For some reason one of the screws from my PCV were missing causing the pressure to blow out the left side of the PCV a little bit. I later figured out it was a cause for a lot of oil on the top of the engine. First noticed this when replacing the plugs and coils but didn't notice oil was coming from what was a missing screw in the PCV valve. From what I'm reading the smell of gas in the oil which was originally an issue with my PCV valve would cause a massive or possible vacuum leak or if the diaphragm in the PCV stuck closed since my long term fuel trim being at -16.0 now I've started looking elsewhere that wasn't fuel system related.

So, what I'm going to do now is this:

1. Buy a new PCV Valve. Mine is the P version as there are two for the 2.0T FSI
2. Buy a replacement PCV gasket

and as a precautionary measure while I'm at it, i'm going to replace the evap regulator. Though the N80 isn't popping up any codes, it's a possibility and only being $20, it's a regular maintenance thing I should do while i'm at it anyway..

I am getting a blinking engine light due to too much fuel not igniting even though 1-4 injectors are clicking at regular intervals after the car was well warmed up. 

Wouldn't it be funny if it's just the PCV all this time? I think it is, I have to since I've been "stuck" at someone elses house now for 3 months. Thankfully, it's in Florida, so it's not the worst.


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## GTI's (Nov 27, 2011)

At idle in group 106-2 what the %?


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

GTI's said:


> At idle in group 106-2 what the %?


50% on group 106-2


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

I went out and found out for you but not sure what the information tells you?


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## GTI's (Nov 27, 2011)

Sorry I missed that. I wanted to see what the lpfp was doing. Do you know if the lpfp was ever replaced and they failed to do basic settings for it in 103.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

No problem. Curiosity was getting the best of me why you wanted to know. The lpfp was never replaced but all stats I've seen from the lpfp side were preforming good. Datalogged rear pump a month or so ago with a 30 minute test drive and the rear pump never dipped below anything showing signs of anything. 

I'm guessing the gears in your head are turning... what are you thinking?


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## GTI's (Nov 27, 2011)

Did you ever check g410 for electrical issues?


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

GTI's said:


> Did you ever check g410 for electrical issues?


Yeah the low pressure fuel sensor was replaced and about a month ago after some reading, someone on another thread for their problem suggested testing the electrical. I tested all harnesses including MAF, Coil harnesses etc. Good ground and voltages all round. After testing electrical is when I went on to replace the G247 since it lead me no where.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Question for anyone reading on the 2.0t FSI engine.

Is the pre-cat oxygen sensor the heated sensor right behind the engine, lower side? I can't help but feel with everything I've read, feel and see on my car that it's running as it should except fuel mixture. I've sort of turned away from the whole PCV idea mainly because I don't hear a leak or anything. 

My understanding is the post cat simply see's if the cat is doing it's job, but the heated (I think called pre or front cat) is the one that calculates the air and sends that to the car for fuel mixture. Also a sensor prone to failure. Before I buy one or both, I wanted to confirm the one I'm seeing right behind the engine in the engine bay not under the car is the one i'm looking at being pre-cat.

I've even considered the idea of the coolant sensor. Normally overlooked but being a cheap sensor I may replacei t at the same time. If the car isn't calculating engine temp properly, from the humble mechanic videos, Charles talks about how it's failure could lead to most of the symptoms i'm seeing as well. May not be it, but at $30, it wouldn't kill me to replace it and play it safe instead of being left wondering.

All that is really left is the two O2 sensors, maybe coolant sensor. I should just buy all 3 and be done with it, but the CAD to USD exchange rate is still insane. How hard would the post cat be to replace? Never really played around with O2 sensors before.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

replaced pre-cat oxygen sensor with OEM and no change at all.... ok, so what if i took what the car was telling me at face value. Fuel pressure regulator. Replace the damn thing. 

Soon to be: Car for sale! Runs great!


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## FSIidiot (Jun 5, 2017)

I was working on a Toureg with a V6 fsi. pretty much the same system. We replace HP pump Lp pump every sensor and relief valve. Still the same issue. Ended up being the timing chain on it. so you might check it. If cams are out the fuel pulse is wrong, as per VW NorthAmerica and will cause the issue. We are in the process of replacing the chain and tensioners


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Any way in particular to know if it's the timing chain? I haven't done the PRV yet or cam position sensor yet. Never bothered with the LPFP since it's readings appeared fine. I sure as heck don't know where to start on a timing chain aside from pulling off the cam housing off.
I'm reaching my max 6 months down in Florida and may need to just take a chance and drive it home until I can find a mechanic I can trust. I've never had it stall and I don't get a blinking engine light when driving, only on a cold start. So short of running with half power and slightly rough idle.

Went for an hour and half test drive and surprisingly got decent mileage compared to what I normally would. Normally I'd hit about 150km 93miles every 1\4 a tank of gas. I made it to about 130km or 80 miles at a mixture of highway speeds doing 70mph and mixed side roads. 

I appreciate you taking the time to still respond to this. It's been one hell of a puzzling issue.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Latest update is I brought it in to a local, reputable shop. Essentially confirmed everything I've said and done so far, but latest info I received was though the lobe looks good with the pump off they want to pull the side cover off and see if it's worn down reducing travel on the HPFP? Not sure how it can wear down without showing damage through the cam follower hole? Either way, still no idea what the issue is yet. If i'm allowed to here, i'll plug them with a thumbs up and will eventually write my review once my car hopefully gets fixed.


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## Audilove88 (Sep 26, 2016)

Upper cam chain and tensioner, cam follower, pcv valve, D.C. Valve, coils 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Brian_E (Mar 29, 2015)

*Following...*

Subscribed--have exact same problem. Wizards at VW no help. Ordering a PRV next.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

According to the shop I brought it to, even though my lobe isn't showing damage or wear, it's the older (softer) version which is why VW recalled it for the revised J version i believe the camshaft is worn down enough that the pump isn't getting what travel it needs?

I was originally ripped off by a local guy in Mississauga and would love to name him to make sure people don't get scammed but that's a whole other story since I should have had the updated cam shaft in here after the engine swap. So I'm looking at a $2000 CAD repair as I don't think it's suited for an average DIY ?


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

rePool said:


> According to the shop I brought it to, even though my lobe isn't showing damage or wear, it's the older (softer) version which is why VW recalled it for the revised J version i believe the camshaft is worn down enough that the pump isn't getting what travel it needs?
> 
> I was originally ripped off by a local guy in Mississauga and would love to name him to make sure people don't get scammed but that's a whole other story since I should have had the updated cam shaft in here after the engine swap. So I'm looking at a $2000 CAD repair as I don't think it's suited for an average DIY ?


Hey, I feel bad for not jumping in on this sooner but it looked like you were, at least for awhile, getting good help and I didn't have much to add. You yourself have also done a good job with your own research and efforts to rule various things out and that should be commended. I saw that you posted on the thread again recently and figured I'd pop back in. I will admit, I didn't do a full refresher on the whole thread tonight so I hope I'm not missing anything, I just wanted to comment on the most recent developments. The impression I get from reading some of the most recent posts on this page is that you've basically exhausted all the typical and even some not so typical causes of the issue at hand. If that is the case, then I do tend to agree with the diagnosis you are now being given regarding the older revision intake cam lobe wear. First off, the tolerances here, as with all motor internals' tolerances, are extremely precise. They are precise enough that just looking through the hole with the HPFP out of the way is not going to give you a good idea of how much the surfaces has worn back. If it had scoring of course you'd see that but you won't be able to detect the wear they are looking for, the kind that affects the cam follower travel, with your naked eye from that angle. You gotta come at it from the side which is why they suggested taking off the cam chain cover. If you have the old revision A one-piece design intake cam lobe then, yeah, it's pretty likely that with enough miles on the thing is worn down enough to not be allowing proper fuel pressurization. I'm not aware of a revision J part, I am only aware of the revision B which was the two-piece replacement intake cam lobe that I thought was the most recent and pretty much issue-proof replacement for that recalled revision A part. If there is a revision J part then presumably it is newer still than the revision B so that's probably even better.

Dude if you were supposed to get the revised part during previous engine work from that guy you said ripped you off then you can and should try to do something about that in my opinion. Anyway, as far as the repair... yeah you're right it's not an average DIY. Cam chain/tensioner job, sure the average pretty mechanically inclined DIYer can handle that with fairly little issue, but a camshaft swap is a whole different animal. Not only does it involve the steps to the cam chain/tensioner job but it involves removing the camshaft itself which involves removing the camshaft cage/girdle. That involves dealing with timing for not just the cam side but the belt side as well and also includes a back breaking and tediously time-consuming exercise in carefully scraping the veeery hard sealant used to seal the cam girdle to the head so that the surface is squeaky clean for re-application. Even for a serious mechanic this is a relatively intense job and there are a lot of ways to f*** it up... as much as it will suck to pay the increased labor rates, I would only take it to a dealer or a shop with similarly good techs that are very familiar with VW/Audis, preferably where they've done this job before. You need to be sure you can trust that they will do the little things right so that you don't wind up suffering the consequences later. They must use the proper sealant for the cam girdle to head sealing, not just any type will do (VW specifies their own special sealant and it's hardcore stuff and, to nobody's big surprise, stupidly expensive!). If they don't use the right stuff it will fail (eventually) and you will have a leak down the line (probably well after you are able to pin it on them). If they don't handle the cam chain cover delicately they could mess up the pressure adjuster rings inside and not even realize it which means you'd have oil pressure issues within the cam chain cover which means improper chain tensioning since that chain tensioner is oil pressure dependent. The list goes on, point is... make sure you don't cheap out on this job or you very well may regret it. I sure hope this turns out to be the problem or else that'd be a big cost for nothing. Speaking of which, how many miles on the vehicle... I'm pretty sure VW has an extended 120k warranty for the intake cam replacement...


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Wait, wait, wait... I scanned through the thread a little more, what ever happened as far as your pressure issue after you replaced the G247. I know it straightened out your fuel trim but did it do anything for pressure? Also what about the whole PCV replacement thing... that kinda got brought up and dropped off the map as to whether you actually did it and, if so, what was the result. Or maybe I just missed something on that, it is 3AM here so I supposed that is a possibility too... 

Anyway, let's put a hold on that whole intake cam lobe thing for a minute, I feel like there is more to discuss first if it's not too late. Can you basically just give a recap of everything you've done, changes in the issue along the way, and so forth (particularly with the latest sensors/PCV stuff you mentioned), and anything that you may have not posted that you did or were thinking about doing, so I have the total picture. To confirm, you have replaced all the sensors related to the issue as per Ross-Techs entry on the P0087 right? Also, you may as well replace that PRV before you submit yourself to the intake cam swap bill. You should be able to get it yourself, you just need the right crows-foot wrench and extensions. There is a DIY on Vortex somewhere. It's a pain to get at but with the right stuff it's totally do-able without removing the manifold (otherwise I wouldn't recommend it).

If there is anything questions lingering that you haven't found answer to I can do my best with those too.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

It's a bit late here, so my reply is going to be a bit short. The shop I had diagnose it and doing the work is Tuning Dynamics in Florida. Seem very well regarded and only work on BMW/VW/Audi I believe. For sure not cheap, after USD to CAD conversion i'm paying $2000 but he highly suggested a new HPFP along with the intake cam shaft. So $1600 USD 

To answer your other questions. From back to front.

Fuel Filter changed with OEM 6.6bar
Checked LPFP module seemed like new
live data showed 6.4bar'ish off LPFP

New plugs, new OEM Bosch coils
checked compression on all 4, readings were about 10%'ish off from i believe new spec if memory serves. I think I wrote the readings above a few posts ago.

Tried a new OEM Hitachi HPFP with the new thurst sensor low pressure sensor G10 
Replaced the G247 proper one for the BPY engine.

Couldn't remove harness on cam position sensor, so we left that alone. Checked voltages and ground on all harnesses.

Changed MAF sensor for good measure.

Pulled off PCV, but didn't have a replacement since I heard it is possible to cause some sort of issues. 
Didn't get at the PRV, the one thing eluding me. I want to replace it but don't have the tools you mentioned. I should buy them and try it though.


The shop heard me out on everything i did, including my live data from test drives. At first they were convinced it was the fuel pump because after a clear codes was done, he mentioned something about the code "coming up again" i forget his words right after starting the car which was our fuel pressure regulator fault. Told him I guarantee it's not the pump, later confirmed after testing another, said they used a scope to look inside without pulling cover off but couldn't get a good enough look but he really believes it's the cam lobe worn down.

I can't begin to explain how I'll implode if I end up out 2 grand and no fix if it was a wrong move. What makes me think he's right as I've had time to consider it is when driving, i have no power as you'd expect but when we hit 4-5k RPM you feel the car WANT to go with jolts as if that pressure wants to peek and at a very high RPM i may get semi power but not for very long. Only thing I can conclude is the faster that lobe is spinning, it's taking a very high RPM to push that pump in and out to build pressure but the travel not being what it should be just can't sustain the 90 bar it'll call for on a 3rd gear pull. Like a supersoaker (bad example) but faster you pump higher pressure you get, but you have to pump harder if something is wrong or pump faster.

Just the weird way my mind has tried to make sense of it.
Was originally thinking carbon build up or bad injectors. Anyway, let me know what you think of what I also mentioned how the car feels during any drive, any day.

Also should note, cold starts is a longer crank, very rough as if pressure needs to build. Blinking light unless i rev for a few seconds, shut off car, start again. Blinking light gone, idle is rough but much, much better. Car will remain perfectly fine rest of the day until it sits for a night. I very much appreciate your very detailed helpful post. I do want to trust these guys, they seem pretty legit. Love to know if anyone has dealt with them, but the tech sounds like he knows his stuff with BMW and used to work as a tech at VW. I'm borrowing money for this repair, so I have to wait easily 2 weeks to get it.

Have a good night


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

rePool said:


> It's a bit late here, so my reply is going to be a bit short. The shop I had diagnose it and doing the work is Tuning Dynamics in Florida. Seem very well regarded and only work on BMW/VW/Audi I believe. For sure not cheap, after USD to CAD conversion i'm paying $2000 but he highly suggested a new HPFP along with the intake cam shaft. So $1600 USD


Are you past VWs 120K extended warranty for the intake camshaft revision swap?




> Pulled off PCV, but didn't have a replacement since I heard it is possible to cause some sort of issues.


Not sure what issue you're talking about from replacing an old PCV with a new PCV, if you want to discuss it please elaborate. On the other hand you could just buy a PCV block-off kit which and delete the PCV so you don't have to worry about future failure. Cheaper than the PCV itself in most cases.



> Didn't get at the PRV, the one thing eluding me. I want to replace it but don't have the tools you mentioned. I should buy them and try it though.


I think you absolutely should do this before throwing down the money on the camshaft swap. It might not be the solution but I'd want to know for sure first. If that PRV is stuck partial open then it could explain the symptoms you have stated up to and including this part which seems to imply the rail is losing pressure more rapidly than usual just from sitting: 



> Also should note, cold starts is a longer crank, very rough as if pressure needs to build. Blinking light unless i rev for a few seconds, shut off car, start again. Blinking light gone, idle is rough but much, much better. Car will remain perfectly fine rest of the day until it sits for a night.


That is very telling actually, because the fuel rail holds pressure for awhile after shut-off. If it's losing so much pressure and then runs like crap at first until you build back up to an acceptable level of pressure, then as far as I know that is not consistent with the worn cam lobe issue as that would just cause poor running conditions after start-up and driving, especially during higher demand driving. Normally if someone explained the above issue you described to me one of the first things I'd do is point them to LPFP/control module issue but if the tests and data you've performed are to be taken at face value then that wouldn't be it. I'd then look at a source of possible pressure loss after shut-off from the rail.

I don't wanna get your hopes up that it is not the worn cam lobe because, well anything is possible, and because a lot of the rest of the stuff you've covered on this thread over the months supports worn cam lobe theory but if I'm going solely on what I quoted from you above I would definitely do the PRV and go from there.

You're in a pretty similar boat as this guy: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...mance-2008-vw-jetta&p=107339114#post107339114

Different codes, possibly different sources, but generally same approach to diagnosis and resolution, similar symptoms too. And just like him you have replaced, tested, or otherwise checked pretty much everything on the list, which means just like my replies to him, I am running out of ideas too LOL. I know it's frustrating but there is only so much to do at this point. Anyway, are you sure the HPFP you tested with was a good pump?


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Are you past VWs 120K extended warranty for the intake camshaft revision swap?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I ordered a replacement PRV and a crowfoot set off amazon same night I responded to you. Something that has driven me nuts about the whole issue is that I drove from Canada to Florida perfectly fine (I've had fuel pressure regulator code for 2 years no one finding the reason after many failed diagnostics from a local shop including almost buying a new HPFP) Back to my point, car drove fine but the morning after getting to Florida, we drove the car to the store on a hot day and within 20 minutes, limp mode. Since that day car has not run fine. It's what originally lead me down the fuel to air diagnostics... humidity, temp changes etc. I'm wondering, is it possible (and i know this will sound stupid but I've run every dumb idea through my head trying to figure this out for the last 6 months) but is it possible that hot day, environment changes caused the PRV to release for the first time at that 130bar threshold and ever since that day, it has as you said been stuck open?

I for a long time attributed what went wrong with the environmental change in some way shape or form. Though I did as recommended and started from the back towards the front. I really want to believe it's possible for something that is well known to fail to be the cause of the issue. It's been on the back of our minds all this time but an absolute pain in the ass to get at. I'll have to see about finding some threads on it.

I'll keep an eye on that thread too, see how it's going for him. I do appreciate you taking the time to respond though.


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## GTI's (Nov 27, 2011)

Did you ever check the high rail pressure after you turn off car with engine temp above 80°C? Video to show what's going on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k50Z5JLfuJs


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

I'm pretty sure I did, but for the life of me I cannot remember the results. I'll do that Monday. What i'm understanding though is if it doesn't climb as it should, it's likely a leak?


Replacement PRV came in today as well. I really hope the PRV isn't that big of a pain in the ass to replace. Any advice?


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

rePool said:


> I'm pretty sure I did, but for the life of me I cannot remember the results. I'll do that Monday. What i'm understanding though is if it doesn't climb as it should, it's likely a leak?
> 
> 
> Replacement PRV came in today as well. I really hope the PRV isn't that big of a pain in the ass to replace. Any advice?



Sorry for late reply, did you get a chance to do it yet? If not, no particular advice, sorry. I replaced mine with an upgraded one that has a higher cracking pressure a little while back because I was afraid mine was cracking prematurely (they can wear out and crack early) leading to an issue I was having in the upper RPMs of 4th and 5th (and presumably 6th but never got there lol). I just followed a DIY I found on here somewhere (can't remember wear, can't seem to find it now, sorry). It was a pain but with patience and playing around with angles you will get at it eventually. I think I remember someone on some thread I read saying that he removed his alternator to get way better access from the side... I didn't need to but just food for thought. Beats removing the manifold haha.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Sorry for the late response as well. By the time tools I needed arrived, we were preparing for IRMA and just got power back today and cleanup so I'm now back at it. 
I did the heat soak, snapped a screen grab to show what I was seeing. Waited 4 minutes, and it basically went down a bar back to 6 but never went up. Wondering if that's simply because there was basically no pressure at all?


Anyhow, we have the crowfoot we need and the OEM PRV, just wondering an opinion on the low pressure heat soak. 

Thanks again as always, it's appreciated.


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## GTI's (Nov 27, 2011)

rePool said:


> Sorry for the late response as well. By the time tools I needed arrived, we were preparing for IRMA and just got power back today and cleanup so I'm now back at it.
> I did the heat soak, snapped a screen grab to show what I was seeing. Waited 4 minutes, and it basically went down a bar back to 6 but never went up. Wondering if that's simply because there was basically no pressure at all?
> 
> 
> ...



Hopefully Irma did not cause you any serious issues.

Was that screenshot with engine above 80°C and engine off? If is was you have got a leak somewhere, Prv or injectors. I reread this post and I noticed that you said you smelled fuel in your oil still have this issue.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

GTI's said:


> Hopefully Irma did not cause you any serious issues.
> 
> Was that screenshot with engine above 80°C and engine off? If is was you have got a leak somewhere, Prv or injectors. I reread this post and I noticed that you said you smelled fuel in your oil still have this issue.



Truthfully I pulled it half in the garage, whole garage smelled like gas, so i couldn't honestly say. I got the 14mm nut off pulling the HPFP off and moving the fuel lines out of the way as well as removing the PCV but no matter what I couldn't get the right angle on the damn PRV, been at it since 9:30 this morning and before any more tools go flying I called it a day. Tools went flying when I lost the damn 17mm somewhere as it fell, put it all back together and I'm sure it's my imagination at work but with banging at the PRV for hours trying to remove it, i swear the jolting happens at a lower rpm now. Before i'd have to go above 5k easy and then some, now it's doing it between 3-4k. Again i'm likely delusional after a frustrating morning.

Bringing it to a shop to have the guy replace it. $200 max he said with charging manifold labor and using my part.

I'm also no expert but that damn lobe looked fantastic. I didn't see any wear on it. I'm trying not to get my hopes up but I want to believe it's the PRV. As for injectors, still cheaper than cam shaft if someone at a shop can figure it out easy enough. I'd really rather not pay for something that isn't going to fix it.

As for IRMA, some bumps and bruises on the cars, 2 uprooted trees, loss of power for a few days. Mild flooding, we had it lucky compared to many unfortunate folks.


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

*PRV was the issue!*

I lied to a friend that came with me, I said it wasn't fixed, did a 3rd gear pull to get in to traffic, she gave me a good whack because this thing has frustrated us to no end. I appreciate all the advice, especially basically saying "woah one sec" check the PRV first. I worked from the back to the front, PRV was next, injectors after maybe and camshaft last after thinking about it from last weeks $2000 estimate. I paid $176 to have him replace it, had a chat with the guy and he knows the 2.0T FSI well and said he absolutely loves working on it most for whatever reason. Either way, he mentioned how surprised he was he didn't hear the rocker arms, said how well it ran. 

He did chuckle a bit at the other shop suggesting the intake cam. He said what was seen "nuh uh no way" his exact words and we talked shop a little while longer.



Going from a car that a Vespa could pull on with how poorly it was driving, back to what feels new again with a smooth idle (I thought i stalled) I feel like a kid again. Thanks to all who tried helping. I promised to update the thread as I see so many never updated with results. If it helps anyone else, if it's suggested, I'll break down every thing in the OP if it lets me edit later on with all the symptoms we felt, noticed, diagnostics we seen, parts replaced.

I owe you all a case of beer! Saved me $2000 



Edit:

Deleted the post because I wrote it on my phone and I hate doing that.


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

Awesome! Yes, I bet it feels fantastic to drive again and to be rid of such a frustration. I know that frustration all too well; in fact, just the other day I found something that I thought 100% HAD to be the cause of something I've been diagnosing lately, it seemed impossible that it couldn't be the fix, and, well, it wasn't. :banghead: Unfortunately, part of the territory.

Anyway I jumped in late so I cannot take much credit but I am glad that, collectively, we could help you out. You should also be commended for making such a thorough thread that documents everything you went through, from start to finish, so that others could learn and benefit later. That is rare and there will undoubtedly be people who appreciate it down the road. Well done, sir.

Now get HOME and enjoy that car on the way!!


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## rePool (Mar 25, 2017)

Thy_Harrowing said:


> Awesome! Yes, I bet it feels fantastic to drive again and to be rid of such a frustration. I know that frustration all too well; in fact, just the other day I found something that I thought 100% HAD to be the cause of something I've been diagnosing lately, it seemed impossible that it couldn't be the fix, and, well, it wasn't. :banghead: Unfortunately, part of the territory.
> 
> Anyway I jumped in late so I cannot take much credit but I am glad that, collectively, we could help you out. You should also be commended for making such a thorough thread that documents everything you went through, from start to finish, so that others could learn and benefit later. That is rare and there will undoubtedly be people who appreciate it down the road. Well done, sir.
> 
> Now get HOME and enjoy that car on the way!!



I appreciate that. One thing I figured out during this whole process is how I'd have liked to see others update their threads. As soon as many fix their car, they may say "Fixed!" but never explain what, how, or why. I'll update the OP with a breakdown once I get back home. 
One thing I was curious about though, is this other shop that I've still left nameless and their $1600 estimate and how ABSOLUTELY sure they were. In his words (Even talking on our internal network that shops have access to talk with other mechanics. Everyone suggested the cam shaft). 

Now that it's fixed, and I'm very happy. I can't help but sit back and question if this shop was gearing up to rip me off? They had my car for 5 days "diagnosing" it. That simple heat soak was pretty telling since not even a single increase of 1 bar which should even slightly point you to a leak. Something I personally thought I did awhile back and just can't remember if I did or not. Why wouldn't this internal message board of mechanics suggest PRV or heatsoak to determine a pressure leak. It's eating me up a little bit that they may have known it was a $60 part and 2 hour job, try and charge me for a major repair but lie and fix the PRV while making a killing for little to no work.

I know I shouldn't dwell on it, but Harrow, I was figuratively minutes away from handing 2 grand over. 

What this has taught me, is this message board, with all you here can end up being so much more helpful, insightful and generous and I believe that's the positive I take out of it. Just having a hard time moving forward on a possible attempt at ripping me off. I again am unsure of the rules about warning others of this shop even though it has supposedly good reviews. I think any mechanic worth their salt would have immediately or eventually lead to the PRV before jumping to the camshaft. I've had quite a few people I know here asking me who the shop was and I don't want to hurt someones business, so I'm unsure what to do about that.

Those that helped me on this thread. I would absolutely buy each of you a case of beer or whatever it is you drink. You don't need to help anyone, you're not paid to, but you do and you all are awesome for it.

Cheers!


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

> I appreciate that. One thing I figured out during this whole process is how I'd have liked to see others update their threads. As soon as many fix their car, they may say "Fixed!" but never explain what, how, or why.


I know what you mean, kinda a pet peeve of mine too but there is really nothing you can do sadly; not everyone is invested enough in the idea of helping people to bother updating stuff when they fix it (those kind of people are just on here to benefit themselves only), some people just aren't detail oriented enough to remember to come back and update, and still more might be too busy or don't feel their finding was important enough to update. I'm not making excuses for those people, I wish they'd update their stuff too. I'm just saying ya never know, I try to post updates to my threads all the time but I've slipped up every once in awhile too.



> One thing I was curious about though, is this other shop that I've still left nameless and their $1600 estimate and how ABSOLUTELY sure they were. In his words (Even talking on our internal network that shops have access to talk with other mechanics. Everyone suggested the cam shaft).
> 
> Now that it's fixed, and I'm very happy. I can't help but sit back and question if this shop was gearing up to rip me off? They had my car for 5 days "diagnosing" it. That simple heat soak was pretty telling since not even a single increase of 1 bar which should even slightly point you to a leak. Something I personally thought I did awhile back and just can't remember if I did or not. Why wouldn't this internal message board of mechanics suggest PRV or heatsoak to determine a pressure leak. It's eating me up a little bit that they may have known it was a $60 part and 2 hour job, try and charge me for a major repair but lie and fix the PRV while making a killing for little to no work.
> 
> I know I shouldn't dwell on it, but Harrow, I was figuratively minutes away from handing 2 grand over.


Well I could kinda see where they were going with their diagnosis at first but, yeah, once I got more info from you and particularly after that one message/finding shortly thereafter it was pretty clear to me that their diagnosis was very unlikely. And I get what you're saying about how it seems that they should have known that and that they were trying to rip you off. It's very possible that's the case, but it's hard to say either way. Here's the thing: mechanics, even dealership or german specialty shop mechanics are not know-it-alls. Some of them are damn near know-it-alls but most aren't. I've talked to some respectable german shop mechanics that could wrench circles around me because they have daily back-to-back experience doing it and I only have a project to wrench on every few weeks BUT I know more than them, particularly on the very specific fine details sorta stuff, because I read and absorb information voraciously. I'm not nearly the mechanic they are but from a theoretical standpoint when it comes to diagnosis I might have an edge. I'm saying all this with certainty or to brag, the point I'm getting at is a lot of enthusiast on here do actually know more than mechanics do, especially when it comes do stuff specific to their type of vehicle naturally. That being said, it is possible that this mechanic/shop genuinely did think their diagnosis was accurate because they don't actually know and, for some reason or another, were not aware of or discounted the PRV possibility. If that were the case though then I highly doubt they were being honest when they said 'they used their internal network to talk to a bunch of other mechanics about it'. That sounds like bull to me honestly, but if they did then I have very little doubt that someone in that network would have brought up the PRV. Someone in that network would have called it. And if that were the case, if they did talk to their network for real, and still came back and gave you that diagnosis then they were trying to rip you off. That's what I think; they either didn't talk to the network and thought they knew what they were talking about already, or they did talk to their network but decided to bull**** you. Or I suppose they could have bull****ted you about the network and the diagnosis too.

Who knows man. It would bug me too but at the end of the day you'll never know. If you really feel that they were going to rip you off and if it is gonna eat you up then I suppose you could confront them about it, more for peace of mind than any kind of result. They won't have anything to say. I mean you're not gonna be going back there anymore anyway. I wouldn't do that, I'd try to just let it go but then again I didn't just get trapped hour and hours from home for 6 months throwing money at a huge checklist of parts to try to fix an obscure problem that wound up being quite cheap... so I can't really put myself in your shoes lol. 



> What this has taught me, is this message board, with all you here can end up being so much more helpful, insightful and generous and I believe that's the positive I take out of it. Just having a hard time moving forward on a possible attempt at ripping me off. I again am unsure of the rules about warning others of this shop even though it has supposedly good reviews. I think any mechanic worth their salt would have immediately or eventually lead to the PRV before jumping to the camshaft. I've had quite a few people I know here asking me who the shop was and I don't want to hurt someones business, so I'm unsure what to do about that.
> 
> Those that helped me on this thread. I would absolutely buy each of you a case of beer or whatever it is you drink. You don't need to help anyone, you're not paid to, but you do and you all are awesome for it.


There aren't any rules. If a shop rips you off you damn well are free to tell people about it however you want, that's part of business. But I personally wouldn't unless I knew for sure. Wouldn't feel right about it otherwise, personally. I've never been ripped off because I avoid taking my car to any shop like the plague, pretty much just what I can't do myself like tire mounting and alignment, but if I did get ripped off by a shop I'm not sure I'd go spreading it around like wildfire because I try not to be vindictive, but on the other hand if they are ripping people off they deserve it and I would also want to potentially save people from that experience too. The latter reason is the main reason I would spread the word if I chose to, more for to save others from being a victim than to get back at the shop. All that being said, I tend to also think they would have suspected PRV first as we did, even if they didn't talk to the network they mentioned, so I'm more inclined to think they were probably trying to rip you off. What you choose to do with that is your call.

There are guys that were on this thread helping you out a lot more, earlier who deserve that drink before me but I'm glad I could help out in whatever ways I did, no payment necessary (unless you happen to have a spare MAP sensor laying around that you'd part with for cheap lol). My philosophy is that if I know something about something I should use it to help people out instead of hogging it lol.

Enjoy the ride man, PM if you ever need anything. 

Cheers!


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## Brian_E (Mar 29, 2015)

*Great thread! It was my PRV too....*

Posting for anyone else who may have a similar problem in the future as well and to give mad support to ya'll.

Started very much with the same symptoms: low fuel rail pressure that cause fuel when accelerating and rough idle.

Replaced the following parts in order:
Torsion sensor (low pressure sensor on HPFP)
High pressure fuel rail sensor
HPFP (1st time)*
Low pressure fuel pump
Low pressure fuel pump control module
Went to VW service--test and more
HPFP (2nd time)*
Went to VW service--more tests and reloaded stock tune
HPFP (3rd time)*
Replaced PRV!!!

Runs awesome due to PRV and essentially a new fuel system.....


I'm ashamed to admit that I brought the car to VW twice. The 1st time I had an aftermarket Hitachi HPFP from Amazon on the car. They said it was a known problem and that I needed a VW FP. Yup--I feel for it but found a great deal on an APR HPFP. Installed that and the fuel cuts went away but it still idled like crap due to low fuel rail pressure. The next time I bought it to VW they said I needed a tune to run the APR HPFP and that was the problem or I needed a stock VW HPFP which they would install for $700. SO I bought another fuel pump. Needless to say the stock pump isn't as stout as the APR pump and the rough idling persisted and fuel cuts came back. Finally spent $50 on a new PRV from DAP and now she runs like the beast she really is.

I've read many threads on low fuel rail pressure and they all point to the cam, HPFP plunger or the cam follower. This is teh only thread that really talks about the PRV. Much appreciated and well done. Thank you all!


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## Thy_Harrowing (Dec 7, 2014)

^ 

Look at that OP, you're thread and good update practices are already helping people out!


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## cszy67 (Oct 10, 2015)

Dude, I am so happy for you - seems like this has gone on forever. And thanks so much for taking the time to document the steps taken, the lessons learned, and most importantly - the solution!


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