# anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V?



## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

Anything to watch out for when buying a 1991 200 20V?
Mike


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

There are a lot of talk about electrical gremlins on these cars. And if it was here in Norway, I'd say watch out for the insurance. It's insane on these cars


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## TabulaRasa (Aug 4, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (PerL)*

Check these sites out:
http://members.aol.com/c1j1miller/
http://www.sjmautotechnik.com/


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Your checkbook! Ha! Seriously, make sure you have an ample budget for repairs. This car is part of the line that is jokingly called the type$$ because of all the money needed to keep them in good working order. It takes about the same budget as keeping a UrQ from what I've seen on the q-list...


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (duandcc)*

really, these cars require that much maintence? that is hard to believe, since most of the ones I see are 150k miles+, it is odd to see a high milage high maintence car







is this going to be a car that is going to leave me on the side of the road every other week? as far as insurance, still on the rents policy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif otherwise I would be in an old beetle http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif please someone tell me somthing good about this car, I am starting to think about an eclipse http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif again and I know I will not be happy outside of the VAG crowd, the best people in the world drive VWs








Mike 
edit: how does milage affect these cars? would it be worth my time to find one under 100k miles? is this the wrong car for me to drive hard?


[Modified by vedubya, 1:09 AM 7-12-2002]


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

The drivetrain is indestructable and VERY moddable, but it's the accessories that are weak. Mostly hydrolic problems (power steering racks that leak, bombs that go (brake accumulators) electrical issues (switches that go bad). If you are the type that does their onw work, it wouldn't be too bad, but if you have to take it somewhere for service...look elsewhere. These cars will go at least 300,000 without a rebuild on the engine or tranie if given decent car but they do reqiure help to get there...


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

quote:[HR][/HR]please someone tell me somthing good about this car[HR][/HR]​0-60 in 6.5 secs. That is good! Top speed is 150 mph. Also good. Rock steady at that speed. That's good. quattro is very good.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (duandcc)*

Ah yes now I feel much better, next to just find a car that is near the east coast and in good shape. I do all my work myself, I have NEVER had a good experience with a mechanic, so about 2 years ago I just started turnig wrenches and now I feel confident that I can do anything to a car. this sounds like a car that I can have some fun with. I have no problem with working on a car, as long as it does not leave me on the side of the road.
Mike


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Just as an FYI, there is a nice 200 Quattro Avant on e-bay now. No relation to seller.


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (duandcc)*

Guess it would help to provide a link to the car, wouldn't it? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1843717291


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (duandcc)*

Thanks for the link, but it has to be a 1991 quattro, it has a 20v engine instead of a 10v. It ends up making one heck of a difference as far as power. I have never seen a 1991 200 avant for sale, but I have seen pics of them with US plates so I know they are out there. but at the same time I think beating people in an old audi is going to be humiliating enough, it does not need to be an avant. oh yes, it is going to be damn funny as I beat my friend in his corvette.
Mike


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## TabulaRasa (Aug 4, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Oh, totally forgot a very big, serious thing.
UFO Brakes! If the car hasn't already been converted to conventional disc brakes, you have a fairly expensive conversion ahead of you.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (TabulaRasa)*

quote:[HR][/HR]UFO Brakes! If the car hasn't already been converted to conventional disc brakes, you have a fairly expensive conversion ahead of you.[HR][/HR]​what are UFO brakes?
Mike


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## TabulaRasa (Aug 4, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

It's a brake where the caliper completely surrounds the disc like a sandwitch. There are air holes along the edge of the caliper that make the brakes look like one of those stereotypical 1950s B movie UFO's. The UFO's gave you better braking than standard discs but for whatever reason, they didn't catch on and replacement parts are non-existent.


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## 3audis (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (TabulaRasa)*

My 2 pfennigs on the UFOs 9aka internal caliper brakes), since I own TWO cars that have them...
1.) UFOs provide the greatest swept braking area available for the stock forged BBS 15 inch rims. Period.
The "regular" G60 replacement (aka Brake DOWNGRADE) that was done by audi to address complaints about brake and steering wheel shimmy don't even come close.
2) UFOs are sensitive to worn lower control arm bushings - you should be able to replace the entire arm, complete with new bushings, for under $90 per side. ( Bentley Manual goes through this UFO troubleshooting)
3.) Cooling is important to prevent warping - the 200 20vs came with "chin ducts" that directed air to the wheel hub. Unfortunately, since these attached under the bumper, they tend to either get clogged with stuff or ripped off. The other thing is that the cooling vanes in the rotor can get clogged with rust if the car is not driven for a long period (same as a regular rotor)
easy fix is to remove rotor (remove wheel, pad retaining spring, and the rotor mounting bolt, pry the pad and the rotor comes off) and scrape the vanes with a screw driver and shake out the rust
4.)Replacement UFO rotors are about $220 each (dealer cost). Which is cheaper than about $1k for custom caliper brackets, porsche or wilwood calipers and new rotors, PLUS the cost of 16 or 17 inch rims and tires.
2Bennet makes acustom setup, Bira has one for UFOs, too http://www.bira.org/info_main.html...
Otherwise you need to replace the UFO struts and tierods and replace them with the G60-spec struts and tie rods -$$$
Unless you are ready to plunk down serious $$ to switch brakes and buy tires, make sure what you have works. There are a number of 200 owners who occasionally track their cars and still run the UFOs, without warping issues.
There is an 200 20v specific email list at: http://www.audifans.com/mailman/listinfo/200q20v
more UFO stuff at:http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/1001/ufos.html


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (3audis)*

well, that explains the huge number of brake upgrades. it is a drawback, but I will not let it stop me from getting a 200, not that anybody cares, but I am no longer thinking about an eclipse. 
so let me get this straight, you have 2 1991 200 avants, I have never even seen one for sale, any idea how many are in the US? I know that they are more balanced, is it aparent in driving?
Mike


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## 3audis (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

The number most often mentioned is about 150 1991 200 20v wagons imported...
Which makes them relatively rare- but then having one get's you in touch with others that have them - especially through the 200q20v email list- I can count 4 friends that currently drive them - NY, NJ , and NH.
Considering that they were around $46,000 USD in 1991 - you will mainly see them where the $$ is - New York/ New England and Colorado.
BTW, both wagons are chipped to around 270 hp ( one TAP, the other Lehman through Hoppen) and each have over 170kmiles on them ( with original turbos)
Chris Semple at force 5 auto http://www.force5auto.com/pages/rebuilders/91200tqa.htm has a repaired one for sale.


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Another on on e-bay*

Did you notice the 1991 200TQ sedan on e-bay? Looks pretty nice! And only 135000 Miles .
















http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1845340080


[Modified by duandcc, 11:22 PM 7-21-2002]


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## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

quote:[HR][/HR] Anything to watch out for when buying a 1991 200 20V?
Mike[HR][/HR]​Yea, stay clear of those UrS4s








Seriously though, the powerplant shouldn't be of much concern, but the drivetrain should.


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (SuperGroove)*

quote:[HR][/HR] Seriously though, the powerplant shouldn't be of much concern, but the drivetrain should. [HR][/HR]​














Drivetrain? The powrplant is part of the drivetrain. The drivetrain is known for being indestructible on virtually all I-5 Audis. To what are you refuring when you say drivetrain?


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (SuperGroove)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Yea, stay clear of those UrS4s








[HR][/HR]​funny you should mention that, my parents stumbeled upon one that was for sale and they both loved it, I have also shown them 200s and they kind of looked at me like are you nuts







hey, mabey I can get them to flip the bill
Mike B


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## audiphile (Aug 18, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

speeding tickets


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Lots- go through Scott Mockry's and Chris Miller's websites for thorough information about these cars.
One thing to keep in mind- these cars can be very expensive to fix, so make sure you get one that's well maintained or you'll regret it. Also make sure you can afford to fix it if it breaks. Some parts are unique to 1991 that make it more expensive- like the engine- only 1991s had the 3B, UrS cars used an AAN, some parts therefore are quite expensive and are special-order.
The upside is that, even mildly modified, these cars are very powerful and very nice, can't complain about that.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Lots- go through Scott Mockry's and Chris Miller's websites for thorough information about these cars.[HR][/HR]​those names sound fermiliar, do you have any links? these cars are reliable to some degree, right? I know it depends on the car, driver... but in general. how do these cars handel? anybody have a stock skidpad number? I think I will go look at a couple as soon as my Jetta http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif is up and running.
Mike


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## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (duandcc)*

mean driveline. Sorry








edit: I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess it is only a problem with UrS4s


[Modified by SuperGroove, 11:15 PM 7-26-2002]


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## JoeJetta91 (Mar 21, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (SuperGroove)*

quote:[HR][/HR]mean driveline. Sorry








edit: I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess it is only a problem with UrS4s

[Modified by SuperGroove, 11:15 PM 7-26-2002][HR][/HR]​
explain that







i've heard the same god damn good things about the urs4's/s6's... fast as fuc, easily modified to be faster than fuc, and relatively indestructable


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## matt007 (May 15, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (3audis)*

There's an easy UFO fix
Its called go out on the highway, drive 120mph, then stop as hard as possible (preferably stop at an offramp)
Return to the speed limit, and don't touch the brakes much for a few minutes (let them cool down)
They should be clear of any shaking or shimmying now


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## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (JoeJetta91)*

quote:[HR][/HR]mean driveline. Sorry








edit: I don't know what I'm talking about. I guess it is only a problem with UrS4s

[Modified by SuperGroove, 11:15 PM 7-26-2002]

explain that







i've heard the same god damn good things about the urs4's/s6's... fast as fuc, easily modified to be faster than fuc, and relatively indestructable[HR][/HR]​Reading the UrS4's buyer's guide, an UrS4 should not be purchased if you hear a whine other than the turbo. This is a sign of a driveline going bad. A $5K-8K repair as stated in the UrS4 buyer's guide.
My car has 137,000 and all the receipts point to some costly repairs. $1300+ every time it went into the shop. 
Still the car is fine right now. Stupid IR keyless entry doesn't work. Don't know if it's the keyfob or the actual sensors. It isn't the engine you have to worry about, it's all the useless gadgets


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## TabulaRasa (Aug 4, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (SuperGroove)*

Hey, my IR keyless is a little flakey too. It will work from extreme angles, but not directly head on.... Go figure!


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (SuperGroove)*

well, I do ALL my own work, so that right there cuts the bill in half. I am starting to think of getting a 200 over the urs4, it weighs like 600 lbs less and I would not have the heart to take a urs4 and cut it up, gut the interior and do other things to save a few hundred pounds. and of corse I will do lots of enging upgrades too. This is going to be my first turbo tuning project and have a question, if I bolt on a T3/K26 turbo will I have to upgrade the fuel injectors? what elnse will I have to do to make this turbo work? (I am just trying to get some info here)
Mike


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## matt007 (May 15, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

quote:[HR][/HR]if I bolt on a T3/K26 turbo will I have to upgrade the fuel injectors?[HR][/HR]​Yes and no. After the car is chipped, it (CIS) won't give the correct fueling for the boost it reads. Its not going to be 100% safe unless its running full rich on WOT and full boost, in which case its fine...Otherwise it might roast $$ parts. I have big injectors on mine, it compensates just fine for the added boost, I checked with an A/F gauge.


[Modified by matt007, 11:35 PM 7-28-2002]


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (matt007)*

well, after I did my first budget project (87 Jetta) I told myself that I would never go cheap again. guess I should stay true to my lessons learned. what is another few hundred for the proper injectors. any idea how the rs2 turbo sizes up to the t3? of corse I am getting way ahead of myself, I have not even gotten the car, letalone any performance parts.
Mike


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

I sure hope you don't gut a nice '91 200q20v- they're not race cars, they're quick luxury sport sedans.
Before you go about doing all this stuff, do your homework- read the sites I mentioned earlier to get a baseline first. You need a properly running car as a baseline before modification otherwise you'll never know how much you've made the car better/worse.
Weight difference is more like 200 lbs., not 600- 3650 vs. approx. 3820 (IIRC). The weights on Audiworld are wrong for the '89+ 200- they use the same weight as the 5ktq, that's wrong.
How much power do you want? If you want serious power, better look into a stroker crankshaft, custom rods and pistons, port the head, match head to block, lighten valvetrain, SQ EM, AAN IM, direct ignition conversion w/ AAN ECU, SQ MAF, custom airbox, front snub mount, suspension upgrades, brake upgrade, custom IC and radiator, larger oil cooler, think about a vented hood, custom software to run the ECU, turbo-back exhaust, the list goes on- budget at least 20k on the engine work.


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## matt007 (May 15, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

1986-88 Audi 5000TQ - 3350lbs
1989-90 Audi 200TQ - ~3400lbs
1991 Audi 200TQ 20V - 3635lbs
According to SJM


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

no, I don't want that much power. My goal is to have a 12 sec car How much HP will that take?. I want to beat S2000s and long term new M3s and of corse my friends C4 Vette (low 14s). I don't think it will take but a few thousand in enging upgrades to take M3s (<$4000). Why do you think I will buy a car that needs work? and that is not running well to begin with. I will of corse drive it for a little while before modding it, but after a month or so. chip, intake, brakepads (if I don't like the brakes as well as SS lines), lowering springs/shocks. After that...I have my eye on a complete exhaust with rs2 exhaust manifold and t3 turbo w/injectors. but that is about a year away. I will be looking around for a car in about another month, and I can't wait







. I would look sooner, but I am moving and can't get another car right now







so until then I will just keep on dreaming and reading. 







front snub mount









edit: me gutting a car is just stripping it and putting the removed stuff in the corner of my garage, not destroying it


[Modified by vedubya, 2:16 AM 8-2-2002]


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## matt007 (May 15, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Get the S6 headgasket, aftermarket connecting rods, low-comp pistons, RS2 EM, hybrid garrett, injectors, clutch, simple headwork, 3" exhaust, and maybe a better IC
You're going to need an aftermarket fuel controller because CIS isn't up the job of very high boost
Direct-port N20 is also an option to further humiliate your competition
Keep in mind there are only a handful of 20Vs this side of the shore running similar setups


[Modified by matt007, 1:35 AM 8-2-2002]


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (matt007)*

I've never heard of a 12 second Audi 200. Not sure it's ever going to happen. A 12 second UrQ would be MUCH easier...


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## Numbersix (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (matt007)*

If we're talking about a 20v, why are you mentioning CIS? 20v's don't run CIS?








A couple things to watch for--
First, mileage isn't as crucial on these cars as meticulous routine preventative maintanence. A car with 150k that has a full service history, inlcuding regular 25-30k hydraulic fluid changes, will in many cases give less trouble than a 100k car with spotty or non-existent service history that may denote lots of deferred maintanence. These cars can run for extraordinary amounts of miles--but suffer greatly when not maintained.
Everything mentioned is valid; electrical problems, such as instrument cluster/climate control/power accessories (frequently due to bad/dirty switches or broken wires in doorjambs) aren't uncommon. These are fully loaded, fairly complex cars that are now 11-12 years old, so some of that is to be expected. Other issues I know of are the transmission and/or differential carrier bearing. I looked at a '91 20v sedan with 107k that had a notable driveline whine which was diagnosed as a carrier bearing; I was quoted $2400 for replacement. 
If you plan on upgrading it with a larger turbo, the RS2 exhaust manifold is almost required as I understand it. The factory manifold design flows very poorly.
I agree with the sentiment that these cars aren't racecars; if you want to build a fairly lightweight M3 killer, I might reccomend you consider buying a 4kq and installing a built 10vt motor. You're starting with a much smaller, lighter car to begin with, not to mention I'd feel much less uncomfortable stripping out a 4kq than a 200 20v to achieve an ideal power/weight ratio. 
These cars can be found in good condition, with FSH, for reasonable prices. There was a 1991 pearl white 20v avant FS here in the Seattle area for over a year, ~115k, 3 owners, full service history, minor paintwork after vandalism, euro H4's, g60 brake downgrade, high end stereo, sport seats--last advertised for $11,500







In Seattle, where car values are extremely high compared to many other areas in the US, that was a screaming deal. My mechanic did a PPI on a black '91 20v avant with 65,000 1 owner miles that was purchased for $13,500.
You might keep an eye on http://www.**********.com ...I can't vouch for their cars or their business practices, but they seem to come by many very nice older Audis.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (SeattleGLI)*

well, I am starting to think of mabey getting another car, or mabey just unloading my bank account into my Jetta







(1.8t (hey another 20V), syncro) I do also like the 4k idea and I love the look of those cars. I guess somewhere I got the idea that the 20V is the only way to go, which I now know is not true. and as far as making a a luxury car handle like I want it to, I would be better to look elnsewhere. 
thanks for all your help
Mike


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Mike-
If you want a 12s 1/4 mi. car, you need to budget over $20k for the engine and related stuff.
380hp will allow you to run with E39 M5s, but you wanted a 12s car, not a 13s car. Like I said in my previous post, you'll need the stuff I mentioned.
RS2 EM and a T3 are not going to cut it. You're smoking crack if you think $4k will allow the car to go 12s w/o nitrous and risking meltdown.
SQ EM- over $1k in and of itself
AAN head- over $1k
Direct Ignition conversion- well over $2k incl. ECU
That's over $4k without even talking about turbo, custom airbox, intercooler, radiator, oil cooler, plumbing for all of that stuff, exhaust, injectors, custom software, etc.
If you want a car that can run 12s, you better start with something a lot lighter- 4kq or 80/90/CQ.
Sorry if I sound harsh, but that's the reality- no way you're getting over 400hp w/o nitrous w/o spending over $4k, try $20k. Ned's car might be capable of running 12s, you might want to ask him how much it would cost to replicate his power build- intendedacceleration.com- ask him about the yellow beast.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

the 12 sec thing is LONG TERM, all I relly want to do is take new M3s by 1 inch in the quarter, that is it. I just had a really fun night tearing up windy roads in my A2 Jetta (with about 15 other dubs) and I think I will just take the money for the Audi http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and put it into that. I really love taking corners and I know that the 200 will never be able to handle like an a2 Jetta. let me tell you about the turning moment, some lexus 400 somthing or other was messing with all of us on the highway for a few miles. Then came the off ramp, I just happened to be behind him, I moved to the outside lane and flew by him as his jaw dropped he almost lost it (and damn near took me out too) when the off ramp was done he had been passed by 1 other car and had slowed down a great deal. what do you have against nitrus? I find more and more people that use it and say that its reputation is not fitting.
Mike
edit: I never said that those mods would get me into the 12s, just that they would let me take M3s (14.0-BMW) and I have never seen anyone get a good launch on the street


[Modified by vedubya, 3:27 AM 8-4-2002]


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

I guess I'm not making my points clear- you say long term, but the fact of the matter is, you need to get a certain level of components in order to get to that 12s goal and if you go halfway w/ some RS2 components, you'll be removing them and putting the other stuff on down the road, at a much greater cost in the end.
It's actually cheaper to just get the final stuff now, you're not really going to hurt anything by doing this- a SQ EM isn't going to kill your low-end or anything like that, even w/ a K24.
As for handling, there's not a whole lot you can do (there are some things one can do that will vastly improve handling), but IMHO, your standard is too low if you're going for an A2 Jetta. The 200 sucks for stuff like autox, but it's not that bad on the track. Lexus is basically a Japanese Buick, that's not a fair comparison either (unless it's an IS300). Quattro helps a lot in allowing you to power out of corners.
I have a lot against nitrous- without proper tuning, it can easily melt down your engine; it can be really dangerous (remember the guy's Maxima whose bottle heater malfunctioned, burned his car down and nearly burned his house down?); it's not SCCA-legal, so you can't run it in most autox courses or some track events; you don't have to worry about whether your bottle is full or not if you've got a solid 400 under the hood w/o nitrous. If you want to use it, fine, but the hassles of running it in a turbo car, IMHO, outweigh the gains. The fueling gets really tricky and I'm not going to let someone experiment on settings on my engine.
E46 M3s are well into the 13s, they're not 14s cars.
I'm leaning toward not going for any more power upgrades on my own car and looking at something like a turbo Miata or a 951S (if I can afford the maintenance) down the road for a track/fast street car.
You want a solid 12s car, go find a clean late '60s/early '70s 911, drop in a Carrera 3.2 engine- that setup will get you high 12s and you have to remember that 911s suck at drag racing. With the right suspension setup, though, you'll keep up w/ the M3 on the track (if you're driving skills are up to par- these cars can get tricky) and you'll have enough power to match them down the straights. That's probably cheaper than a 450hp 200/S4- I think the two guys I know w/ that setup have about $25k into their cars, incl. purchase price.


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## turboquattro (Mar 3, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have a lot against nitrous- without proper tuning, it can easily melt down your engine; it can be really dangerous (remember the guy's Maxima whose bottle heater malfunctioned, burned his car down and nearly burned his house down?); 
[HR][/HR]​Was there fire with that? I thought it was just the bottle exploding from the crazy pressure of the overheated nitrous.


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (turboquattro)*

Yeah, the guy's car completely burned up and his garage was pretty much toast as well. Fortunately, the firefighters got it under control before his whole house burned down.
In terms of power add-ons for turbo quattros, the only "temporary" add-on I'm thinking of is water injection, Ken.








TM


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

quote:[HR][/HR]your standard is too low if you're going for an A2 Jetta[HR][/HR]​







how so? those cars are bad as poop, very light, handel very well very very fun to drive and it would be fun building a car that I know and love. the money I was going to spend on the audi will go a long way into my Jetta. that car is so fun to drive I don't even care if it is that fast.
Mike


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Not saying your Jetta is bad, no offense intended.
Just that if you're shooting for good handling, I'd shoot for trying to equal something that handles significantly better, like a Miata, E36 M3, 951S, etc. That's all I'm saying.
If you love your Jetta and don't care if it's fast, I don't understand why you're talking about a 12s 200?








I'd love to have an A2 GTI w/ TT225q engine in it and a 6-speed, but for the cost, I could have a turbo Miata that would run rings around the GTI.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

There is just somthing about driving my Jetta, my dad has owned it since I was 3, we got it in Wolfsburg it has been registered in Germany, Ontario X3, Texas, and Virginia I have done countless trips in her and she has never left me on the side of the road at 403k km. I have no intention of EVER letting it go. If I wanted to get cheap power I would go out and get an eclipse, but then I would lose the VW brotherhood somthing I have become attached to. My goal all along was to turn my Jetta into a stock showcar, but now my ideas are changing (daily). I tried to call Momentum all day and finally found out that today is a holiday in Canada. I will be moving to BC in a few months, so why not give them the keys and my audi 200 money and tell them I will be back in a couple months. As far as being slow believe it or not you get used to it and you learn how to have fun in other places on the road with no street racing tickets http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but that is all gonna change. I am just 19 have some money and I am not really sure what I want to do with it, but I know it is going into a car. believe it or not an A2 Jetta would pull .88 on a skidpad stock, sure there are better cars such as the Miata that you mentioned, but Just driving an A2 feeling the road hearing the engine that is why I want to keep it. Most people that get into my car say that it is just fun. as with most who ride in an A2, they are great they are more solid then an A1, but alot lighter then an A3. Just to let you know I don't really have the intention of doing SCCA races or staying in a specific class of racing.
Mike


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

Mike- I know what you're talking about- I had a '85 GLI myself.
Considering that you're 19, I seriously think the money you have saved up would be best spent on driving schools- not the really expensive kind like Skip Barber, but schools held by BMWCCA, PCA and the like. With good instruction, you will learn a lot about how to drive your car better.
Absolute best bang for the buck- sign up for a bunch of driver's ed track events in your area, go autox your car (really helps the learning curve of track events to autox, because your car is always at the limit in autox or very close to being so).
That money can go toward a dedicated set of track wheels and a few sets of tires, tweaked suspension setup, maintenance (track events can be pretty hard on components, you'll find the weak points of your car quickly), incidentals (lodging, food, tolls, gas money) and maybe even a better pair of seats, possibly a rollbar/cage and harnesses if you get really serious.
Had I known what I know now, I would have spent my money on stuff quite differently than how it is now for me. I also would never have gotten my POS money pit 5ktq that cost $7500 in maintenance over 18 months.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

quote:[HR][/HR]driving schools I also would never have gotten my POS money pit 5ktq that cost $7500 in maintenance over 18 months.







[HR][/HR]​ good point, I have ruled out a syncro conversion so I am now thinking of an audi 4000 with turbo (mabey the 20v conversion) or a quantium syncro 1.8t. really $7500 in to your 5k damn that is alot of repair work. That is kind of why I decided to back off from the 200 as well the fact that it is just too big, and I have really grown attached to my small, light Jetta http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but I now know I can't hold on to her, but my parents can! 
Mike


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## t44tq (Feb 21, 2002)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

A 4ktq wouldn't be too expensive of a job but a 1.8T QSW would be- you'd need to change the front subframe to mount a 4-cylinder and the base engine is rather expensive. I'd rather get a 20v engine in the 4ktq than put a 1.8T in either.


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## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (t44tq)*

someone should tell vedubya, that a car with an engine swap should not be a primary driver. I've been told this, and I couldn't be happier. My car will start. Everyday. Any audi mechanic can work on it.
I'm 19 too. I spent $8000 on my 93 S4, and could only be happier if I had a Porsche 944 Turbo.


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## vedubya (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (SuperGroove)*

quote:[HR][/HR]someone should tell vedubya, that a car with an engine swap should not be a primary driver. I've been told this, and I couldn't be happier. My car will start. Everyday. Any audi mechanic can work on it.
I'm 19 too. I spent $8000 on my 93 S4, and could only be happier if I had a Porsche 944 Turbo.[HR][/HR]​
ya, I am getting the reliability thing alot. I guess I am comparing ALL engine swaps my my friends A2 vr6s (very reliable) I am starting to think about a urs4 again, but I would really prefer some car I could not worry about getting scratched, dented... this is going to be my car while I am at collage, but won't be my only form of transportation.
Mike


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## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: anything to watch out for when buying a 200 20V? (vedubya)*

It's not like an S4 will appreciate in value. They're rare, but they have pretty poor resale values.
My freshman year, I didn't have a car. What's weird is that, I was ANAL about keeping my 1995 Mazda Protege LX in good shape. Now that I've bought my S4, which needs a few cosmetic things to be worthy of being taken care of exterior-wise, I really don't care about what happens to it as long as it doesn't rust.
The S4 is the perfect college car for me(well actually a UrS6 avant would have been). It's surefooted in the dry, it's surefooted in the snow...and whoa...it has heated leather seats, awesome climate control, a moonroof, comfy ass seats(except for me..I hate leather), decent sound system. Something about it having a turbo and that fun to drive aspect that makes me think I'll have a lot more fun this year at school. Highway 72 here I come!
Only thing I don't like about the S4 is that it's HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE. My volvo 264 is easier to park than the Audi







Oh I dislike the fact that my clutch only engages at the end of travel, but I have to push it all the way in to downshift.


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