# What does the future hold for the New Beetle?



## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

There seems to be a lot of talk about the Mk V Golf and Jetta but I haven't heard much of anything about the New Beetle. According to Phil Teves over at the ScottVW forums the Audi A3 and the New Beetle will also be moving over to the mk V platform. What does this mean for the future of the New Beetle? Has anyone heard what changes they will be making to the New Beetle at that time? Will the body be modifyied in any way? Will we get 4Motion? Anything interesting planned?


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*

So far, there is NO plans on moving the New Beetle to the MKV platform. Last information I read that came from VW said the New Beetle would get a "minor" facelift and a new interior for 2004, however, VW said it would still remain on the MKIV platform.
So, I wouldn't be holding my breath for a completely redesigned NB on the MKV platform. Unfortunately, that may never happen.
But, to answer your question, looks like a minor facelift and a new interior are about the biggest things coming down the road for the NB in the next couple of years.


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## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (pdoel)*

There will be a facelift on the existing platform for model year 2005. Slightly more angular lines to it probably in some ill attempt to make it a little more masculine looking.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (vwvortex1)*

Any idea as to what interior changes are planned? Have there been any photos leaked (real or otherwise) showing what the revised body stylings will look like? I wonder why he said it would be moving to the mk V platform though? He seems to have good info otherwise.


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*

Don't get me wrong. Phil is a decent guy, who does work hard to get new info out. Unfortunately, he tends to jump the gun and make assumptions. More often than not, I've found his information never comes to be.
So you have to be very careful with what info he leaks out.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (pdoel)*

It's been a while. Is there any new information on the New Beetle for 2005 and beyond?


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## trbobeetle (Nov 1, 2003)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*

(Just what I've heard don't beat me down if I'm wrong







) I've heard that 2004 is the last year for the beetles because there really isn't any modifications they can make to change it, otherwise, it wouldn't be a beetle. If I find that information, I'll put a link to it.


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (trbobeetle)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trbobeetle* »_(Just what I've heard don't beat me down if I'm wrong







) I've heard that 2004 is the last year for the beetles because there really isn't any modifications they can make to change it, otherwise, it wouldn't be a beetle. If I find that information, I'll put a link to it.

Not true. They wouldn't have put all the work into releasing the New Beetle Convertable, then cancel it the next year.
It'll be around probably at least 4 more years or so. VW has already confirmed it will be here at least until the 2008 (I think?) model year.
It is supposed to get a minor facelift for 2005 and a new interior. So no, this is not it's last year.


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## prettygood (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (trbobeetle)*

They didn't just introduce the convertible to have it disappear in two model years. I know that no official word has come down from VW about the transfer to the MKV platform, but look at it from a financial standpoint. The Jetta and Golf are both moving to the new platform, and the Beetle is the same car mechanically, so all they would have to do is to redesign the shell for the car to make the conversion. So does it make more sense to keep two platforms in production or use the same and make a new shell for the Beetle? While official word is not here, the likelyhood that the Beetle will make the same move is good, they will not keep around all the old product line for a vehicle that is not the major product. The new engines and frame will be in the new new beetle.
prettygood


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (prettygood)*

The MkV is a fairly large platform... not sure a Beetle would still be a Beetle.
Besides, all Beetles are made in a single dedicated plant. They can have that plant continue to make MkIV platformed NBs till the cows come home.
As far as I know, the NB remains on the MkIV, and is guaranteed to MY 2009. After that, it will probably be discontinued if sales are abysmal.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (paultakeda)*

From these pics, the MkV isn't dramatically larger than the Mk4...
Front angle...








Side angle...








Rear angle...








...so I don't see why VW can't use the Mk5 and call it a "New Super Beetle". Sustaining demand is the problem.


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## 2nd_BugMan (Nov 9, 2003)

From what I've read, both the New Beetle and the Jetta Wagon are staying on the old platform.


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## CK98Beeetle (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: (2nd_BugMan)*

I'm glad i have the first year New Beetle. Shows i have a lot of patience.







I think the newer style will be neat to see. I really can't picture what it will look like. But i think it ran a good course. All those younger college girls see them as "Dream" cars as I for one, see a 911 GT2 or a Ferrari 250 GTO a dream car. So the first NB's were deffinately worth it! I can't wait to see the newer model till the end of the road. A road with an end for sure.


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (Cadenza_7o)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cadenza_7o* »_...so I don't see why VW can't use the Mk5 and call it a "New Super Beetle". Sustaining demand is the problem.


Because it would require complete redesign of the chassis and body panels; retooling the plant...basically a bunch of costs that are already paid for. There also has been not serious slide off in sales below 50K a year (there orginal target here, IIRC, and with the NBC they have actually gone up for the year.) Why that is important is that we're talking now about 7 model years so far. Most 2-doors go stagnant after a few years on the market...then sales fall of a cliff.
Not to mention they haven't even sold NBC's for a year yet. It would be redicluous to build A4 NBC's alongside A5 Saloon's in the same plant. Even more so to be forced to redesign it on to another platform.


_Modified by 13minutes at 9:52 AM 11-19-2003_


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

Yes, I read that the New Beetle and Jetta Wagon will remain on the MkIV platforms for "a while" and the 2005 model will get sheet metal changes and a new center dash design. I would like to see it compete more with the Mini though. You can even get a satellite navigation system on the Mini. Most of all, above all else, I would love to see the New Beetle get 4Motion. I know its possible. Unfortunately they haven't gotten that on the New Beetle over in Europe either and they get stuff way ahead of the states. They have had 4Motion on the Bora (Jetta) for years and HID lights on the New Beetle for years as well.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (13minutes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *13minutes* »_ Because it would require complete redesign of the chassis and body panels; retooling the plant...basically a bunch of costs that are already paid for. There also has been not serious slide off in sales below 50K a year (there orginal target here, IIRC, and with the NBC they have actually gone up for the year.) Why that is important is that we're talking now about 7 model years so far. Most 2-doors go stagnant after a few years on the market...then sales fall of a cliff. Not to mention they haven't even sold NBC's for a year yet. It would be redicluous to build A4 NBC's alongside A5 Saloon's in the same plant. Even more so to be forced to redesign it on to another platform. 

Redesigning & retooling is a must, every manufacturer does it. That is NOT the question. The question is whether there'll be public demand for the NB 3-4 years from now... or is it just a passing fad?
If VAG actually decided to continue the NB production on the Mk5 platform, the transfer won't be 2004 or 2005 but at the earliest 2006 or 2007. At which time both NB variants would be so behind the rest of the world. 
Again, I can only see VAG doing this if the NB, in its current form, can sustain interest & demand... or VAG doing something to excite interest.


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## onebadbug (Dec 21, 2002)

I hope the NB never goes MKV. The longer they make it as is the better it will get. Who knows they may even get it near perfect eventually.
About dropping the NB/NBC and the dual platform thoughts. I bet the coupe will go first and the convertable will live on for several years as a MK4, even if we are into MK6s by then. Look how long the "Rabbit" convertable lasted.


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (prettygood)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prettygood* »_While official word is not here, the likelyhood that the Beetle will make the same move is good, they will not keep around all the old product line for a vehicle that is not the major product.

They most definitely would. The Cabrio remained on the MKIII Platform for the remainder of its life, while the rest of the line-up moved to the MKV.


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (onebadbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *onebadbug* »_I hope the NB never goes MKV. The longer they make it as is the better it will get. Who knows they may even get it near perfect eventually.

The only problem with this idea is, who cares if it's perfect, if no one is buying it. These aren't the days of the Old Beetle. People like change. Obviously, with the New Beetle, they would never change the whole shape of the car. It would always look like a Beetle. They managed to make SIGNIFICANT changes from the original Beetle, but we all still know it and love it as a Beetle.
People like change. Already the MKV platform is showing it's age. That's the first thing mentioned in any magazine comparison using an MKV. The engines are running WAY behind the competition. 
So many people say they want the Beetle to stay forever as it is. No changes. But guess what brings these same people running to the dealerships. New colors, and new options. The second there's a change, they can't wait to see it. 
My guess is that the NB will continue along in the timeframe decided by VW. It will never move to the MKV, and will eventually be dropped from the lineup.
At this point, the MKVs are starting to sell in Europe, they will be in the US in about a year. If VW "starts" to look at moving the Beetle to the MKV at that point, by the time they have it moved over, the Golf/Jetta will be ready to move to the MKVI platform.


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## ASurroca (Sep 3, 2001)

*Re: (pdoel)*

I think the Beetle is in an alright groove for the next few years. Sales are chugging along alright (not lower than expected, but not higher either), and they're still managing to attract customers.
I think it might be fitting to convert the Beetle to the MkVI _Polo_ platform whenever it hits market (probably something like 2009, since the MkV Polo just hit market like a year ago). By 2009, all of Volkswagen's new product line (Golf/Jetta V, B6 Passat, Sfero, Marrakesh cute-ute, Microbus, Brisa vert, Concept R roadster, etc.) will be completely rolled out, and VWoA especially will be utterly lacking a legit small car (I believe we will _never_ see the Polo V in the US because it will cannibalize Golf/Jetta sales). And by then the Puebla plant will sorely need retooling and updating anyhow. And 2009 happens to be as far as VAG plans to keep the MkIV Beetle. It would be a great opportunity to base the Beetle on a slightly smaller platform than the Golf's, it would benefit from the latest technology (instead of remaining behind by being based off the then-ageing MkV Golf platform), and its price point would be able to be low enough to become a true economy/entry-level car.


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## 4string (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*

From what I have heard through reliable sources is the NB will be discontinued in 2005 except the NB Convertible will still be made.


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (4string)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4string* »_From what I have heard through reliable sources is the NB will be discontinued in 2005 except the NB Convertible will still be made.

Well they are incorrect. It's already been mentioned several times that there will be a design refreshening in '05 (most likely to correspond with the release of the MkV Golf/GTI/Jetta), and plans that may keep it into production on it's current platform until the end of the decade. It's fate beyond 2009 is unknown.


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## vwheimlich2001 (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: (pdoel)*

People might like change but familiarity is not lost to the public either. VW was on the verge of leaving the US market before the New Beetle came along. The New Beetle saved VW in the USA because to many people Volkswagen was, is, and always should be the "Beetle Company". Things were pretty bleak for the company in the years with no Bug. I hope that Volkswagen will keep that in mind if they ever decide to "axe" the New Beetle.


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## 4string (Sep 26, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (13minutes)*

ok...we'll see.


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (4string)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4string* »_ok...we'll see.

Oh come now, even if you hate the car you have to admit it's best rolling advertisement for a company short of the Oscar Meyer Weinermobile.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (4string)*

Yes, we will see as VW has stated the New Beetle will continue at least through 2008...


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## Bugs (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*

man you guys are impatient ;-)
The old design lastest from what, early 50s to this year with minute changes? slightly different fenders or lights....







NB has only been around for a few years, and already wanting a change. Its a beetle.. keep in the spirit of what this car is based on.


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## vwheimlich2001 (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (Bugs)*

Yes, you are correct. Volkswagen will eventually "upgrade" the New Beetle to the MkV platform. (Hopefully) Be patient.


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (Bugs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bugs* »_man you guys are impatient ;-)
The old design lastest from what, early 50s to this year with minute changes? slightly different fenders or lights....







NB has only been around for a few years, and already wanting a change. Its a beetle.. keep in the spirit of what this car is based on.


#1. This isn't the 50's.
#2. The Beetle is currently in it's 7th model year. That's not a few years. 
Unfortunately, cars cannot live on forever with the same design anymore. 7 years is a long time to go with barely any changes. People like change. And slumping sales are showing that.


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (pdoel)*

I'm in agreement with Pdoel...
Personally, I think the Mk5 has much to offer... FULLY independent suspension ('bout time!)... with a much improved rear multi-link set-up that actually has a "subframe" for the first time!!! If you think your Mk4 NBs with aftermarket springs, dampers and swaybars are fun now, wait till you drive the Mk5. The *longer* wheelbase and suspension subframe allow you to increase handling significantly w/o killing the ride comfort, which is hard to do with the current Mk4 trailing-arm design with no subframe. Safety is kicked up a notch. We'll also get a series of newer engines... heck, it's time VW kick the bucket on the 2.0.










_Modified by Cadenza_7o at 10:54 AM 12-2-2003_


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (Cadenza_7o)*

I have no problem with the NB moving to MkV, though that's a pretty big platform for this car.
All of this is moot for me, as I already have my car and have no plans for another NB until I win the lottery.
That probably means never.


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## vwheimlich2001 (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (paultakeda)*

My New Beetle will probably live it's entire life with me also. I do have my eyes on the Golf MkV when it comes to the USA. And with all the advancements that were posted here, it sounds awesome. But I will not trade in my New Beetle to get another car. I'll just own two cars. After all, one can't have too many VWs!


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (vwheimlich2001)*

My next car will be a hybrid or some other alternate powerplant.
Wave of the future.
More than likely, VW will introduce either a hydrogen powerplant (remember that crazy bullet shaped prototype?) or create a hybrid using an electric motor and the new FSI engine.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (paultakeda)*

check out the sales for last month: http://www.vwvortex.com/artman...shtml
The New Beetle (not including NBC) outsold the GTI, Golf, and Jetta Wagon COMBINED


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## paultakeda (May 18, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (gt2437)*

55% increase.
What the hell happened?


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (paultakeda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paultakeda* »_55% increase.
What the hell happened?

VW dealers have been pushing free coffee in their show rooms. I heard the coffee has some "mind altering" feel-good ingredients... the magical stuff that made the 60s & 70s so famous!










_Modified by Cadenza_7o at 5:15 PM 12-4-2003_


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (paultakeda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *paultakeda* »_55% increase.
What the hell happened?

God knows..and noting they counted the NBC seperately, that makes it ever so much more phenomenal.


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## vwheimlich2001 (Aug 1, 2003)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (paultakeda)*

If I do decide to get a second VW (to go with my New Beetle), I am considering one with the new TDI engines until the Zero emissions vehicles become a reality. Diesel engines are the rage in Europe. Somewhere between 30 and 40% of all cars over there are diesel. I watch the atomotive program Auto Motor Und Sport on Deutsche Welle. It's a very interesting show.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

So, any updates as to the changes for the 2005 models? They should be out in just 4 or 5 months yet I have heard virtually nothing about them.


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## ElecMoHwk (Jun 6, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*

I saw a spy photo, which I can't find now... but it showed a beetle with a audi-esque lower front end, driving around in AZ with a pack of VW test vehicles.
I don't think that VW can ever get rid of the beetle totally without killing a BIG portion of their market share. Wether that's anyone's favorite car or not, it is a BIG portion of their notariety.


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (ElecMoHwk)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ElecMoHwk* »_I don't think that VW can ever get rid of the beetle totally without killing a BIG portion of their market share. Wether that's anyone's favorite car or not, it is a BIG portion of their notariety.

And a fair protion of market dshare. Even with sales down,it still outsells the Golf/GTI. (Just barely last month, but you can bet the R32 had something to do with the Golf sales increase.)


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## BruinToo (Jun 17, 2000)

And the New Beetle Convertible is VW of A's third largest selling vehicle for April 04.


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (13minutes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *13minutes* »_And a fair protion of market dshare. Even with sales down,it still outsells the Golf/GTI. (Just barely last month, but you can bet the R32 had something to do with the Golf sales increase.)

Actually, that's not a true statement. They sell more Beetles in the US, than they sell Golfs in the US. But worldwide, the Golf is VW's NUMBER ONE seller. The Beetle sells very few cars outside of the US.
So, worldwide, the Beetle sells horribly.
It's not really an issue for VW, that the Golf sells poorly here. Since it's sales across the world, are incredible. On the other hand, the Beetle doesn't really sell well anywhere, so they could drop it easily.


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## VWVixens.com (Feb 3, 2004)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*








_*only Volkswagen knows*_


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (VWVixens.com)*

Does VAG offer the NB in China? Each family should have one... imagine that!


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## 20VConvBug (Jan 16, 2004)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (TWinbrook46636)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TWinbrook46636* »_There seems to be a lot of talk about the Mk V Golf and Jetta but I haven't heard much of anything about the New Beetle. According to Phil Teves over at the ScottVW forums the Audi A3 and the New Beetle will also be moving over to the mk V platform. What does this mean for the future of the New Beetle? Has anyone heard what changes they will be making to the New Beetle at that time? Will the body be modifyied in any way? Will we get 4Motion? Anything interesting planned?

To bad Phil is no longer at Scott VW or I'd ask him. I love Scott VW! That's where both of my VWs and my father's are from. You know, they've been in the business since 1957!


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## 13minutes (Sep 8, 2002)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (pdoel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pdoel* »_
So, worldwide, the Beetle sells horribly.
It's not really an issue for VW, that the Golf sells poorly here. Since it's sales across the world, are incredible. On the other hand, the Beetle doesn't really sell well anywhere, so they could drop it easily.



It would still hurt in this market to just dump the car. And don't act as if the New Beetle is the only small seller for VW. Things liek the Lupo, , the Caddy and the Eurovan aren't exactly massive worldwide sellers like the Golf is either. 
But really, who cares. The aftermarket would long survive tha car's cancelation, and not even counting attrition goign to salvage, or the parts aftermarket, there is still a massive market of parts to be had, and there's pelnty of cars to be bought. Hell, if you didn't have one already would we be having this conversation?


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: What does the future hold for the New Beetle? (13minutes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *13minutes* »_But really, who cares. The aftermarket would long survive tha car's cancelation, and not even counting attrition goign to salvage, or the parts aftermarket, there is still a massive market of parts to be had, and there's pelnty of cars to be bought. Hell, if you didn't have one already would we be having this conversation?

I think the point of the original question, was what DOES the future hold for the New Beetle. As in new releases. Not for existing Beetles, and the after market world.
So, the points about sales for the New Beetle, and whether or not VW really holds the Beetle as a car it will continue to develop, is most definitely valid.
As for aftermarket. Yes, I do believe the aftermarket will be around for awhile. However, quite a few places are starting to cut back on the products they offer. Been hearing from quite a few people lately who have been trouble getting their hands on certain products, because it's just not worth it for companies to stock some of this stuff anymore.








Not happy about that. Just stating some info of what's been happening as of late.


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## DirtBug (May 6, 2004)

I thought they came out with a more rugged model of the beetle, its more of an off road, i thought maybe it was a concept car, but maybe thatll be their next move


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## Inky (Dec 10, 2003)

Not that it matters to the original intent of the thread, but VW has already announced that the Jetta Wagon is discontinued.


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## pdoel (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (Inky)*

Really? I just read a week ago that VW said the Jetta wagon would continue on, staying on the MKIV platform.


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## TWinbrook46636 (Apr 18, 2003)

Yes, I started the thread to talk about the 2005 model year changes as it is expected the New Beetle will stay in production at least though 2007. VW is doing a lot of boneheaded things lately though so who knows. I've only heard the 2005 models this fall will satellite radio as an option, have an all new interior and new bumpers and fenders for the exterior. Any more info? Spy pics?










_Modified by TWinbrook46636 at 5:03 AM 5-19-2004_


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