# Helpful tips for the MSS adjustable springs...



## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

I have the fully adjustable Sport kit. I've been monkeying around with it so I could be proficient at quick adjustments if needed while at the track. My pain is your gain! Make accurate measurements before you begin and decide on your final desired height. Convert the difference into "turns". As a rule of thumb, 1 turn equals about 3mm of height adjustment. 

First I'll address the rears. No need to remove the tires. The supplied tool works great BTW. 









I raised the rear and put it on stands. One side was simple and poised no issues. The other side rotated as a complete unit when I tried to adjust it. I was trying to figure out how to hold the collar in place while rotating the adjuster. I came upon a very simple solution:









I raised the tire slightly with my jack to put a little pressure on the spring...just enough to hold it in place but not too much to make the adjustment difficult. Easy and worked like a champ! Here is a shot after the adjustment was made:









Onto the fronts. Again, I raised the car and put it on stands. I removed the tires to begin with but later determined that my method works just as well with the tires in place. That is a big plus! I found the supplied tools difficult to work with. I'm sure if I gave myself more time I could master the seating of them but it drove me nuts, so I pursued another method. You can easily get your hands in there and grab the adjuster but I found it very difficult to rotate. I do a fair amount of small DIY woodworking projects around the house...








...ok, maybe not so small! The point is, I have small hand clamps and thought they might be handy to remove some of the load on the spring so I could turn the adjuster easier. BAM! Works like a charm with wheel on or off!

















There is plenty of room for your hands to make the adjustments quite easily now. There isn't nearly enough strength in these hand clamps to truly compress the springs or deform the perch but there is enough strength to remove enough load to make rotating the adjuster very easy. I rattled off 3 full turn in the matter of a minute or so.









The other thing I tested was lifting one wheel at a time. The ARB's will impart load in these situations but the clamp method still proved effective. This lets you make quick adjustments on the fly, if needed. I suspect most of us will set it and forget it, but it's nice to know it can be adjusted quickly and easily, if desired.

Here are the before and after shots. I never thought I'd be going from my track setup to snow tires! #polarvortex


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## tttastic (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks very much for posting this! I plan on ordering a street kit soon.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

tttastic said:


> Thanks very much for posting this! I plan on ordering a street kit soon.


Come on you know I luv Roadsters, pls post a pix of the car - 2014 glacier white _TT_ roadster - s line comp | vmr 710 | rs grill - never seen a White Roadster on my travels and that specs got to be seen.


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## tttastic (Nov 2, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Come on you know I luv Roadsters, pls post a pix of the car - 2014 glacier white _TT_ roadster - s line comp | vmr 710 | rs grill - never seen a White Roadster on my travels and that specs got to be seen.


Will do, Will!  We are moving this week but will take some pics for the weekend! I also plan on pulling the trigger on the MSS kit this weekend once we are in and have our wireless back up.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

tttastic said:


> Will do, Will!  We are moving this week but will take some pics for the weekend! I also plan on pulling the trigger on the MSS kit this weekend once we are in and have our wireless back up.


Hold on the order until after 24th Nov 00:05 (UK time)...can't say anymore than that...goosh, marketing will kill me for this :facepalm:


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## tttastic (Nov 2, 2014)

[email protected] said:


> Come on you know I luv Roadsters, pls post a pix of the car - 2014 glacier white _TT_ roadster - s line comp | vmr 710 | rs grill - never seen a White Roadster on my travels and that specs got to be seen.


First pic of the car in its new home! We just took possession of our new house today.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

tttastic said:


> First pic of the car in its new home! We just took possession of our new house today.


Dammmmmmmn...!

Roadsters honestly, on this platform, looks better than Coupes...surprisingly the first white Roadster pix I have seen.

Thanks for sharing.


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## sandjunkie (Sep 28, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Dammmmmmmn...!
> 
> Roadsters honestly, on this platform, looks better than Coupes...surprisingly the first white Roadster pix I have seen.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.


I'll agree that it looks good William but not better than a coupe, c'mon.:screwy::laugh:










Great Ride TTTastic!!


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

haha, thought it won't be long before a Coupe owner turned up - and how could I argue about this Coupe...

...wait to see what car is feautured on our FB page in the morning, Aaron...and that plate still gives me giggles...


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## tttastic (Nov 2, 2014)

sandjunkie said:


> I'll agree that it looks good William but not better than a coupe, c'mon.:screwy::laugh:
> 
> Great Ride TTTastic!!


LOL! I like them both! And really, your pics and reviews are what MADE me have to pull the trigger on a mss kit and rs grill.


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## sandjunkie (Sep 28, 2012)

tttastic said:


> LOL! I like them both! And really, your pics and reviews are what MADE me have to pull the trigger on a mss kit and rs grill.


Post some pics when its done and for god sakes, drop the top :thumbup:


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Had my tracking done the other day,that was fun trying to get the recommended settings.In the end they were pretty close though.
The car drives very well,but Audi's steering is still a bit dull compared to a few other cars.


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## pal (Aug 16, 2000)

Thanks for the excellent tips Mike. I will be switching out the rear springs in the coming days with some test race springs that William has sent me. And following test completion, I will tackle the fronts with the adjustable kit that is sitting in the garage as well.


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## tttastic (Nov 2, 2014)

Thanks again for posting this...the clamp method for the fronts is a winner. I can't believe how fast I just adjusted the height on all four corners!


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

LOL, I'm glad this proved useful! It really does make adjustments a snap!


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Thanks for the tips BB. I got some clamps and did this in the paddock with just the Audi trunk jack.

While the clamps help, it was still exhausting trying to rotate the thing with the load the sway bar was applying. I found by clamping the spring as much as I could, then pushing down on the tire to extend the suspension, it then became very easy to spin it with 1 finger. Just a foot on the rim lip or a good push on the tire is enough to overcome the sway bar. If you use the Audi jack, put something under the frame rail, you could loose both hands if it lets go!


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

Not all quick clamps are equal! Always looking for a deal, I have acquired several Harbor Freight quick clamps. While at the track last week, I broke every one of them. :banghead: I will invest in better quality quick clamps for future suspension adjustment...


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

as350 said:


> Not all quick clamps are equal! Always looking for a deal, I have acquired several Harbor Freight quick clamps. While at the track last week, I broke every one of them. :banghead: I will invest in better quality quick clamps for future suspension adjustment...


haha, yea. I broke the 2 I bought also trying to get more force on them (crappy store brand). I'm going to leave some heavy zip ties in my bag next time. Just put them on the spring when it is partially compressed, then lift the car off the ground. The front spring rate is about 210lbs/inch, so it would only take a couple zip ties to hold it compressed less than a 1/2inch.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

The zip tie idea is a good one too! I may have to try that if I ever adjust these again. The car is spot on at all four corners right now. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

What front height are you running BB? I was down around 330 - 340mm with the IE camber plates and collars threaded flush and it drove OK on track, but it was crashing on modest bumps. I wound it up 16mm and it feels much better. Not sure if it is the geometry or just the damper out of it's efficient range or both.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

CarbonRS said:


> What front height are you running BB? I was down around 330 - 340mm with the IE camber plates and collars threaded flush and it drove OK on track, but it was crashing on modest bumps. I wound it up 16mm and it feels much better. Not sure if it is the geometry or just the damper out of it's efficient range or both.


I couldn't get the crashing to stop regardless of height so I went back to fixed height springs in the front, so much better now. It was pretty obvious looking at the coils that they were bottoming out.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Yea, there is maybe an inch of travel when the suspension is loaded, I was surprised also. I keep meaning to write a post about all the suspension faults I've had with IE camber plates and MSS springs, maybe I'll get to it this weekend. This solves the fault code problem, but it really is brutal when it bottoms out, it doesn't hit the bump stops in the strut. There is no way the suspension was designed to take these sharp impacts.


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

So I'm not the only one. The adj springs and camber plates don't seem to mix well. Works well at the autox and during most driving but you definitely bottom out at a certain point. It seems very non linear... A small bump is nothing, a medium bump is a small reaction, and slightly larger bump is a huge crash. 

So is the solution to keep the camber plates and go back to non-adj springs or keep the adjustable springs and go stock strut tops? I have the parts to go either way....


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

I had problems with the adjustable springs and stock mounts. I imagine the camber plates make the impact even worse but they don't have any effect on the lack of suspension travel with the short springs.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

CarbonRS said:


> What front height are you running BB? I was down around 330 - 340mm with the IE camber plates and collars threaded flush and it drove OK on track, but it was crashing on modest bumps. I wound it up 16mm and it feels much better. Not sure if it is the geometry or just the damper out of it's efficient range or both.


Just measured...340 front, 345 rear. Center of hub to fender method. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## GaBoYnFla (Oct 2, 2005)

So the MSS system bottoms out in the front? And only has an inch travel when loaded? Why do the camber plates make any difference on this? Bottoming out on such a nice, refined car as the TT isn't acceptable IMO.


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

I think JohnLZ7W had it right. The camber plates don't cause the issue but since they have less compliance in their all metal joint versus the part rubber stock top hats, they cause a stronger jolt when they do bottom out. 

I know when I'm driving and come up on a pot hole or frost heaved concrete joint, if I put into sport mode on the mag shocks I often do not bottom out. The higher resistance of the higher setting makes a difference. I don't run that way all the time because I don't like the ride quality. So I hit the button before the pot hole and again after. Mind you, I try to avoid all together but sometimes it crosses the whole road.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

JohnLZ7W said:


> I couldn't get the crashing to stop regardless of height so I went back to fixed height springs in the front, so much better now. It was pretty obvious looking at the coils that they were bottoming out.


Wow, that is surprising. I'll have a look at mine and see if there is evidence of bottoming out. I have a loud clunk when hitting abrupt joints too. I was attributing it to worn out upper strut bushings or the engine mount bottoming out but perhaps you're right. Maybe William can weigh in here.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

There isn't much to say really, you are probably not getting the full impact with the stock rubber upper mounts, it doesn't hit the bump stops and the spring just bottoms out with a terrific crash.

From what I've seen, the IE camber plates tend to lower the car a bit over the OEM part, but all the same problems apply. It will be interesting to find what breaks first in the suspension after a few good hits. I've spent so much money on screwing around with this I could have had a nice set of coilovers and mint stock suspension as a backup. William has been helpful though, and I'm sticking with it for the season at least.


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

Reading this thread and offline discussions with John make me wonder if our cars went through various suspensions versions from the factory. Some of us report significant NVH on the adjustable springs including physical evidence of metal to metal contact of the spring windings, while others have no issues at all. It's either different factory versions or the production delta spring tensile strength is too large which would allow certain "weaker" springs to be installed on the heavy TTRS and end up bottoming out. 

My car has the adjustable front Sport kit and I haven't had any problems to date. The ride seems to be almost identical to the non-adjustable springs, maybe a little more compliant. Last week I've changed the ride height several times as I was preparing for track season and in all configurations I never experienced any harsh behavior. I had the front suspension very low at 331mm hub center to fender before I increased the ride height a bit for the track, but at no time did I ever have any odd suspension behavior. Even at the very low setting, the spring windings never made any contact.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

At the lowest ride height setting, the compressed height of the spring+adjuster is smallest, allowing for a greater chance of hitting the bump stop before the spring bottoms out. Hitting the bump stop and having the OEM rubber upper mounts would make for a much more pleasant ride. The other variable is how much weight is in the vehicle. These springs are borderline too soft, which is great on track dialing out understeer, but it can go from fine with just the driver to crashing on bumps with two people and some luggage. Since I've raised mine and started using sport mode, I haven't had issues on my daily drive. Although, I'm a lot more careful now.


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

So I'm running 330 to 335mm depending on how accurate I'm measuring. But, I'm also in a theoretically lighter 2.0T TTS. I'm not running sport mode because it is way too harsh. I guess I could try 10-15mm height up to see if it makes a difference.

Curious what others measure hub to rear fender in the back .... I seem to have quite a bit rake if you look at the jack points on the sill as a reference. The hub to the fender is 345-355mm in the rears.


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

Finally had a chance to adjust the front springs. Moved from 330 up to 345 and kept the rears at 350. Also, the aftermarket end links were swapped out for the stock units. I did leave the IE camber plates in mainly because I did not want remove the struts. I also had the whole thing realigned. 

I drives much much better. It is still a firm ride but overall much smoother than before. I sought out the worst pavement joints and they give a nice hard thump but not a crash or anything that felt like the bottoming out from before.

I put about 250 miles on it today and I think I am going to leave well enough alone. I have an autocross on Aug 23rd and want to evaluate the current setup there before I make any more changes.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

365mm front and 355mm rear was stock height, I think. Maintaining that difference seems to help. I've found over 350 in the front works best with the adjustable springs and IE camber plates, the struts feel like they are more effective and provide the most front end grip. The rears are around 245mm right now, and that is working OK. If you go too high in the back it doesn't help the dynamics of the car, it just wants to understeer more. Anyway, I'd suggest raising the front more and lowering the back. Getting the car to rotate for autox is one of the hardest things to do.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear about issues with the front adjustable MSS spring setup.

When I recently asked MSS for a product recommendation for a street/track day setup, they suggested that I keep my H&R lowering springs in the front and only install the MSS adjustable rear springs (Track version, if memory serves). They didn't mention problems with their front adjustable product, but rather that the H&R springs work and set a reasonable ride height, so why spend money for no/little gain(?). I appreciated the up front response that didn't include pushing their products over an existing, viable (paid for) setup. 

With the H&R springs, I am currently at 330mm front/335mm rear (US spec TT-RS). Does anyone have experience with utilizing the H&R springs in the front with the MSS adjustable rear setup? I would want the rear to be in the 335mm-345mm range, to match the front height from a wheel gap/visual perspective.

The ideal of retaining the OEM Magneride system, improving ride quality when in "normal" mode, and improving track capabilities/handling when in Sport mode is tempting. However, if it makes more sense to go with a traditional coil over setup front + new coils and high quality matching shocks rear, then I would rather not waste the time/money on an overly compromised solution using the OEM struts/shocks. 

If no one can comment on the H&R front/MSS Track rear combination specifically, any information on just the rear MSS Track setup would be appreciated. Will the springs work without bottoming out when set to a static ride height of 335mm-345mm? How do the Track rear spring rates compare to the OEM springs?

If my understanding of coil springs is correct, the MSS setup should have two rates... One which is a function of the combined rates of the two coils and another, higher rate, once the lower rate coil binds. Is the MSS rear setup deigned for the lower rate coil to bind under hard cornering/track conditions? 

Regarding IE camber plates... The IE website actually states that their camber plates don't work with Magneride front struts. Is that a typo? Or is some modification required to enable them to work with Magneride HW? 

Thank you


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

CarbonRS said:


> If you go too high in the back it doesn't help the dynamics of the car, it just wants to understeer more. Anyway, I'd suggest raising the front more and lowering the back. Getting the car to rotate for autox is one of the hardest things to do.


normally you want to raise the rear to induce oversteer. puts more weight on the nose and takes it off the tail.

here's a pretty good list from kraus racing. http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2012/massive-list-of-solutions-to-understeeroversteer/

btw brandon kraus does all my alignments, is a great source for tires, and just an all around nice guy.

and no i'm not getting paid for saying that


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

smack_ttrs said:


> normally you want to raise the rear to induce oversteer. puts more weight on the nose and takes it off the tail.
> 
> here's a pretty good list from kraus racing. http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2012/massive-list-of-solutions-to-understeeroversteer/
> 
> ...


Here's how mine sits with rears at half and fronts as high as the go.

Had the occasional bump ,but nothing too harsh.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> normally you want to raise the rear to induce oversteer. puts more weight on the nose and takes it off the tail.
> 
> here's a pretty good list from kraus racing. http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2012/massive-list-of-solutions-to-understeeroversteer/
> 
> ...


I should have given some context. The dampers (and geometry) become noticeably less compliant the lower you go. Keeping the front higher with the adjustable springs seems to allow the dampers to be more effective, giving front end grip. Lowering the back to 10mm less than the front just reduced a bit of body roll combined with stiff springs and a stiff bar. It isn't a huge difference, it just felt more predictable. So it doesn't really have much to do with weight transfer, just using the rear end to control body roll and keeping the front soft and compliant for turn in and grip.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

jaybyme said:


> Here's how mine sits with rears at half and fronts as high as the go.
> 
> Had the occasional bump ,but nothing too harsh.


What are your center of wheel/hub to bottom of fender measurements?

BTW... Looks like you have the Euro 20" forged wheel option? Very nice! I wish Audi had a 19" equivalent forged option (here in the US).


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

so, Fronts 33 cm (13 inches ) Rear 34.5 cm (13.6 inches)

Kept the rear higher due to the wheel/tyre combo and 8mm spacers,plus the car has done a lot of launches over the last couple of months.


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## IPSA (Dec 25, 2011)

I may have been the first to try the IE camber plates after a bad experience with Ground Control. IE has been a pleasure to work with by the way.

Once the plates were in the car, it kept throwing esc fault lights/codes . Struts and magride ecu replaced , no joy.

After a lot of time diagnosing problem, it seems the IE plates, which are well made by the way, are too tall and compress the strut too much . As such magride and esc sense a problem and throw code. esc will not work other than in default always on mode:banghead:with these codes in place.

IE is considering a mod or other solution but magride guys are camber challenged on TT RS's for the moment.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

IPSA said:


> I may have been the first to try the IE camber plates after a bad experience with Ground Control. IE has been a pleasure to work with by the way.
> 
> Once the plates were in the car, it kept throwing esc fault lights/codes . Struts and magride ecu replaced , no joy.
> 
> ...


During your troubleshooting, did you try the Magneride calibration procedure? 

There is a process for the Magneride system to relearn. The Factory Service Manual (FSM) states that the procedure must be done when/if one of the Magneride struts or shocks is replaced.

I don't have a copy of the FSM handy to look up the specifics, but I remember wondering if it could be done with VAGCOM cable/software or does the recalibration procedure require the Audi service/diagnostic computer system. 

Thanks for the information on the IE camber plates in any case. Sounds like it would be less trouble for now to go with 034 Motorsports upgraded, OEM style top hats and new OEM strut bushings, if one is going to retain the Magneride system, but would like to tighten up the front suspension. The mounts from 034 won't help with trying to add more camber, but are should help control strut deflection under cornering loads. 

Thank you


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## IPSA (Dec 25, 2011)

I can assure you the car was with "experts" for over a month. While I don't know everything they did , they had magride engineers involved.

I have the 034 strut tops and bearings and they do help. Camber at neg 1.5 is ok but we need more, I have asked 034 and IE to look at plates and what I call " the foot ", the bottom end of the strut that has adjustment that simply needs a bit more adjustability.

034 rear sway bar makes a huge difference but when first trying out be a bit careful as oversteer becomes possible if you drive it like a AWD or FWD which you need to do stock.Max rear camber to neg 2.0 plus and the car now goes into a 4 wheel drift at the limit which is the correct limit reaction in my view.This all assumes factory ride height . Lowering the car gives more neg camber but also is a challenge to magride at some point.

Thx to 034 and IE for putting in the time and effort into this low production high fun factor car.

Now if we could only get a TT RS Cup series in the US...


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