# My eight-valved obsession.



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

So I figure most of the serious motor-heads are in here, and some may even appreciate what I'll be doing. That's my reasoning for starting this thread in this particular forum....really...the ITB's had nothing to do with it...








Call it a 'build thread' or a thread to antagonize the eight-valve haters of the VW community. This car/motor was all built by myself, starting from back when I was one of those 'noobs' and knew next to nothing about cars, other than I loved working on them. (It's now my profession!) This wasn't built with a credit card or mommy and daddy's money. I've worked VERY hard for many years to get this to where it is now. Mistakes and all. Expensive learning procedure, but I wouldn't trade it for the world. It started back in 2004 when I bought the car, and has progressed to what follows and will continue until....well....who am I kidding, I'm not stopping!
As it stands now:
*Block-*
OBDII ABA
1/4" steel plate reinforced stock oil pan (for piece of mind if nothing else)
Stock windage tray w/ factory "small baffle" around the oil pickup
SCCH machined intermediate shaft
ARP undercut headstuds
Autotech lightweight intermediate gear
Digifant mk2 distributor w/ TT adapter and ABA drive gear
PeterTong breather blockoff plate
Factory non-a/c, non p/s alternator setup, original to this car w/ hiemsjoint SS tensioner
Mocal 9-row 85* thermostatic oil cooler
Eurospec lightweight flywheel
*Head/Intake-*
Original to this car, Digifant counterflow head
"street ported" by a reputable local shop (not flowbenched







)
TT 1mm oversized 7mm stemmed intake valves, undercut, and nitrided
TT 1mm oversized 7mm stemmed exhaust valves, nitrided
TT tapered bronze guides w/ 'stubby' valve seals on intake and exhaust valves
TT 7mm, Ti retainers
Autotech HD dual valvesprings
Unknown weight "lightweight lifters"
TT 276 camshaft set @ 6* retarded
Autotech adjustable camgear
Scientific rabbit "stage 3" ported intake manifold
4.6L 3" mustang throttle body w/ adapter plate made originally by Wraith04
3" ebay-special-no-name 2000 honda accord "cold air intake"
3" K&N filter
*Exhaust-*
TT race header for 1.8L, modified to fit the ABA tallblock (I hate this thing)
TT 2.25" SS header to axle
21" case Borla muffler originally intended for a 2003 HEMI (lol!)
*Fueling/Management*
V2.2PCB Megasquirt I running MS-Extra HighRes 10G code w/ Easytherm, Beta Blitzrennsport relay-board
Megasquirt triggered, factory external ignition control module w/ Blaster 2 MSD coil
Innovate motorsport LC-1 w/ analog wideband gauge
Walbro 255 fuel pump
BBM mk4 style FPR adapter w/ 4 bar regulator
Bluetop 24# injectors
Now, the only dyno sheet i have of this current set-up is from 2 weeks after i got it running, with a VERY rough tune, with the mustang on/off....er.. throttle body:
*105whp 115wtq*








I've been tuning it all summer, and think i have a fairly decent street-tune. No professional tune, as i have yet to find a tuner i trust with Megasquirt in the area.
I will be going this Tuesday to have it re-dynoed before I tear into it again. I'll post results from that when I have them.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My current plans for the "new" motor are:
Build my spare OBDI ABA block w/ the intermediate shaft from the OBDII motor
.020 pistons with either 10.5 or 11:1 CR.
Bildon Rev-lite or Scat rods
Have the crank knife edged
Have the bottom end balanced
Have the block decked, to ensure flat HG surface (this motor had a rough life prior)
ARP hardware throughout
Disassemble the head, have it checked, CC'd and port match it to the Weber carb manifold, possible touch-up of portwork. Clearance lifter bores for 288 or larger camshaft
Get new lightweight lifters (i weighed 4 different sets at work and found a set that's over a full ounce lighter than stock mk2 lifters!
Metal headgasket
Install 40mm TWM ITB's w/ 40mm long trumpets (raintray will be shaved to ensure good airflow and clearance.
Wrapping or ceramic coating header, with some sort of Aluminum heatshied to minimize ITB heatsoak.
Weber or Aeromotive FPR
Upgrading to V3MS-Extra II highres, integrated ignition control
Possibly distributorless ignition a-la trigger wheel and 034 coilpack or Ford EDIS
Going to add provisions to the megasquirt to run direct port nitrous
Adding launch control/flatshift
Relocating battery to trunk (fullsize one, not the Deka ETX14 i'm running now)
I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting but 3 Jack and coke down, i'm a little forgetful...
Comments and Criticism welcome and encouraged!
Thanks for reading.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

Oh and some fun-bits!
Video of the only dyno-run so far:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQCnxXHh8nU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU_4SdbQ8DI
















Soon to be with:
















And lastly, what setting the hard-cut rev limiter to 5K @ -10 timing does







Please disregard the silly southerners







:



_Modified by secondgen at 11:33 PM 11-22-2008_


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

You might want to consider ITB's larger than 40mm though - that's awful small. Possible 42mm or 44's, especially with a 288 and 2.0L of displacement which will open up your top end.


_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:27 AM 11-23-2008_


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (WolfGTI)*

I've been thinking the same thing since I received these, but at the moment, I think I'm just going to build it with the 40's, see where it gets me and then go bigger. Which I don't doubt I'll need to do.


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

You will be fine with 40's. the restriction in carburetors is the choke, not the throttle size. With TB's, their is no choke. I put down 150 with 36mm chokes, so your 40mm TB's will be fine.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

Nice build make me miss my mkII Digi 8v


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## Hollagraphik (Nov 9, 2005)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (newcreation)*

Nice build. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_You will be fine with 40's. the restriction in carburetors is the choke, not the throttle size. With TB's, their is no choke. I put down 150 with 36mm chokes, so your 40mm TB's will be fine.

Good to know. Thank you.


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## elveloz69 (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*



secondgen said:


> My current plans for the "new" motor are:
> Build my spare OBDI ABA block w/ the intermediate shaft from the OBDII motor
> .020 pistons with either 10.5 or 11:1 CR.
> 
> ...


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (elveloz69)*

Oh I'd love to, but my goal is to keep this car streetable on pump gas. Which means 92 or 93 octane....there's also the possibility of boost in the future, so trying not to take too much away from the cylinder bores...


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

FYI...
My head has 40thou knocked off it, which brings me up to a tad over 10.7:1 cr. 
Im currently running my stock chip, stock cam and 87 octane with zero knocking or pulled timing issues.
11:1 on 93 pump is nothing.....especially if you are going to run a 288* (or bigger).
BTW, .460" lift is the absolute max before you need to touch the lifter buckets. Here is a TT288* in an OBDI head:


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_FYI...
My head has 40thou knocked off it, which brings me up to a tad over 10.7:1 cr. 
Im currently running my stock chip, stock cam and 87 octane with zero knocking or pulled timing issues.
11:1 on 93 pump is nothing.....especially if you are going to run a 288* (or bigger).
BTW, .460" lift is the absolute max before you need to touch the lifter buckets. Here is a TT288* in an OBDI head:










Any idea how much timing advance you run in the upper RPM's at WOT? Or what your AFR is at WOT?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

My ignition was showing about 32*-34* advance at 7000+rpms, and my A/F was a comfy 12.9-13.2.


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## elveloz69 (Aug 26, 2006)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

Like I've learned here (vortex) and from my standalone tuner..." It's all in the TUNE"







you can fix the knock http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.......


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_My ignition was showing about 32*-34* advance at 7000+rpms, and my A/F was a comfy 12.9-13.2.

Really!? My fuel is in the same area but i can't seem to add anymore to it without it knocking (27* @ 7000 RPM, and with 92 or 93 Octane) Maybe my CR is already higher than I think it is...


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

Well I got my answer as to why I couldn't add anymore timing....and that my wideband is a liar. Right on the edge of being dangerously lean. With the gauge and MT showing numbers not indicative of running like it was.







Also, Alpha-N is so much better than this speed density crap.








No knocking, but lean worse down low, and improving slightly as the RPM's increase. I'll have the graph uploaded as soon as I get the email.
Car made *116whp/128wtq* with that max torque coming in at just 2500RPMs (







) John at New England Dyno is fairly certain that if I can get the A/f sorted out to the 't' it should make at the least, 130ft/lbs across the board. We'll never know what this setup is capable of though as I'll be tearing into it this week.
Huge thanks to John and the crew at NEDyno, for staying so late with us.
OT, my roomate's 2liter ITB 16V on Alpha-N that I tuned made 144whp/131wtq. Very pleased with those results!


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

slow


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

im sorry not slow


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## KransDubber (Apr 13, 2008)

If it were me I would've started out with an mk3 2.0 8V. They already start with 115hp and you can go from there....My opinion I guess..Atleast your testing ground while I sit here and watch


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## Daylight Bombings (Oct 23, 2008)

*Re: (KransDubber)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KransDubber* »_If it were me I would've started out with an mk3 2.0 8V. They already start with 115hp and you can go from there....My opinion I guess..Atleast your testing ground while I sit here and watch








 this is the reason why i think you should have to pass a test before you can post anything in the technical forums


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

my friend's brother had a nasty 8-valve back in the day....his name is stapleface.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (Dave926)*

I had a pretty lengthy conversation with Colin at TT when I was going about the first part of this build. Especially pertaining to the head. He was adamant about counterflow heads flowing more due to the port design. Granted the cooler air on the front side of the motor and ease of intercooler plumbing/turbo room on the back is a selling point. 
It was a few years ago, so all the details are a little foggy.
As for an update:
I've acquired a 16V 9A motor, and think I'll be using it as the base. For a few reasons:
-This block is in MUCH better condition than my OBD1 ABA block.
-It already has the means to get rid of the distributor, although it means I need to have this 16V intermediate shaft turned down.
-The crank has no trigger wheel on it.
-Has very low mileage.
Still waiting on final CR, I want to CC the head once this motor's apart. And do some more port work. As such, pistons and rods are still undecided. Also looking for someone in the area to knife edge the crank, if i don't find something soon, I'll just run a crank scraper.


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## Hollagraphik (Nov 9, 2005)

*Re: (Daylight Bombings)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daylight Bombings* »_ this is the reason why i think you should have to pass a test before you can post anything in the technical forums









I think he meant 115hp @ the motor, not the wheels.
I've seen some bolt on 2.0 ABA's make 115whp.


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## tehmonkay (May 5, 2006)

Have you tried using autotune?


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## vwnut18t (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (Hollagraphik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hollagraphik* »_
I think he meant 115hp @ the motor, not the wheels.
I've seen some bolt on 2.0 ABA's make 115whp.

I had a mildly tuned aba that put out pretty good numbers. Mods were obd2 stock bottom with 113k on it, obd1 head with mild P&P with a 268 cam and Ti retainers. Also had dual stock springs. L/W autotech cam gear and IM shaft. L/W flywheel. mk4 intake manifold and exhaust manifold with custom DP and a eurosport 2.25" exhaust. The TB was mildly ported and it had a custom CAI. It had a custom chip from colin at TT Tuning. Oh and it had the msd coil pac mod. 123 HP and 132 TQ at the wheels with the best dyno in AZ.
Here is the dyno sheat...It shows all three runs. It was the most consisten dyno run for that day (vw group dyno day)








And the engine bay of said car...









_Modified by vwnut18t at 7:37 PM 12-27-2008_


_Modified by vwnut18t at 7:39 PM 12-27-2008_


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_I had a pretty lengthy conversation with Colin at TT when I was going about the first part of this build. Especially pertaining to the head. _He was adamant about counterflow heads flowing more due to the port design_. Granted the cooler air on the front side of the motor and ease of intercooler plumbing/turbo room on the back is a selling point. 


Very interesting. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
After doing a lot of reading about cylinder head design, I came up with the same conclusion as well.
From a naturally aspirated standpoint; counterflow intake ports have a few good design features over the crossflow:
A slightly higher angle of approach,
a slightly taller throat,
and a less abrupt short side radius.
The bowl is much deeper, and already has a slight airflow bias around one side of the valve guide boss. (crossflow bowls are very shallow, and have no visible bias).
By swapping to the 7mm valvetrain, the counterflow head flows within a few CFM as a crossflow, and also after porting, a counterflow will typically flow more.


_Modified by Jettaboy1884 at 2:18 AM 12-30-2008_


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## 21tuningolf (Dec 29, 2007)

if your looking to go all motor 16v check out my friend redgtinj, he put down 160whp on cis its a killer!


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## NeonGreenbangbang (Dec 20, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_Also, Alpha-N is so much better than this speed density crap.









Ahhh yes, another convert.  I've been pushing alpha-n for a long time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Also, secondgen - tdogg's head probably has some decent work done in the chamber that helps eliminate pre-ignition issues. That's likely why you can't add the same amount of timing as he does.


_Modified by NeonGreenbangbang at 12:54 PM 12-30-2008_


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (NeonGreenbangbang)*

Update:
Motor is out, head is off, cleaned and de-valved. I cannot express how disappointed I am with the machining and portwork I paid to have done to this head. I won't even get into it. I'll get pics up ASAP and you'll see for yourself. I'll be trying to clean up as best I can.
Debating on staying 276 or going 288 still....








Also trying to decide on two major cost factors with the building of the bottom end:
Rods:
SCAT
IE
Bildon revlites
Crank:
Knife edge it (SCCH would be doing the work) 
or
Balance only and run a crank scraper (much cheaper but unsure on the benefits)
ITB's have been mocked up, and are nowhere near where I thought they were going to sit with relation to the firewall/raintray. Regardless, I've shaved the raintray, and will be seamwelding the strut towers as well as shaving most of the unused holes in the firewall.
Found that with some tweaking I WILL in fact, be able to run the stock fuel rail in the head and not have to have the injectors out on the throttle bodies themselves. This i feel will make tuning much easier. Also just feel better having the fuel spray closer to the valves.
Ordered a cyl head cc kit from http://www.steigerperformance.com/ so I can pinpoint or get very close to what my actual CR is.








Updates more tomorrow if i find my battery charger!
Input/Suggestions always welcome!


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

8 hours worth of porting today.....it's been a long day.
Port matched the manifold to the head, traced a stock gasket onto gasket paper, and modified the copy to fit the larger intake ports.
























Pressed the valve guides out, and ported the exhaust ports, knocked the gussets out completely, have to do 120 and 240 grit sand wheels tomorrow.
Waiting on the CC tool before i do any chamber work, and going to look at a head tomorrow to use as a reference for what/when I do the intake ports. Leave the guide gussets or take them out? Longevity is not something I'm concerned with....
More polishing stuff ordered from summit and ruffstuff.com, including some new longer mandrels and coarse and fine cross-buffs.
Exhaust port opening's will be finalized when the oversized gasket shows up from TT. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

6 more hours spent on the the exhaust ports, done aside from being cross-buffed. mostly bowl and throat work. pretty happy so far.
































Nice smooth shot down the ITB through the manifold, you can see the valve seat!








Can't wait to be done, this thing is going to make some wretched noises!


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## vwnut18t (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_6 more hours spent on the the exhaust ports, done aside from being cross-buffed. mostly bowl and throat work. pretty happy so far.
































Nice smooth shot down the ITB through the manifold, you can see the valve seat!








Can't wait to be done, this thing is going to make some wretched noises!










The word "Beafy" comes to mind in a deep low voice. As far as the wretched noises go.... well wretched would not be how I described a build P&Ped ITB'ed 8valve







It would be more like .... "Pure Sex" http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Nice work


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## fuchsgti (Jul 2, 2008)

what type of engine management are u gonna run w/ the itb's?


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (fuchsgti)*

ms2......... alph-n


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (fuchsgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fuchsgti* »_what type of engine management are u gonna run w/ the itb's?

Megasquirt 2, V3 board, with coolant fan and launch control programmed outputs, with the possibility of adding nitrous control as well later on...
This motor ran on my other Mesasquirt board, which is what the dyno's on the previous page are from.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Making me jealous cant wait to start my project


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

3.5 more hours tonight, smoothing out the combustion chambers, de-shrouding the valves as best i could within the head gasket marking. Started on the # 4 intake port, de-gusseting and smoothing out the bowl and throat in an attempt to fix the shoddy job the machine shop did when they "port & polished".
No pics tonight, forgot the camera at home, and still can't find my charger.








Weighed stock aba valves and compared them to the +1 supertech ones i got from TT.
Stock:
Intake: 2.3oz
Exhaust: 2.2oz
Supertech +1's:
Intake: 2.2oz
Exhaust: 1.9oz
Combined, that's over a full oz out of the valvetrain. Then the TDI lifters weighed in at 1.8oz. Didn't have a stock set around to weigh.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Got the SA Deluxe Porting kit, 2 boxes of extra cross buffs, the CC kit, and a couple mandrel's in yesterday afternoon. Only about an hour's worth of work though. I'll do more tonight. 
Got the manifold polished up with the coarse 1" cross buffs and cyl. 1 combustion chamber cleaned up a little more.
Finishing up the other 3 intake ports, and putting the final polish on the exhausts. CCing the chambers tonight, then i'll try to balance them out and finally polish them.


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

oops im spending money again..... i will still be faster


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

4.5 more hours tonight, couple little areas to touch up, cross buffs really bring out the spots that still need work!
#1-4 exhaust ports manifold view:
































#1-4 exhaust ports combustion chamber view:
































Combustion chambers 1 and 2:








3 and 4:








Chambers 1-4:
































And put a finer polish on the intake manifold with some coarse 1" crossbuffs:








Intake ports are done up to 120 grit, and that's the way they'll stay.
Exhaust ports are polished as fine as i could get them with 0W20 lubed very fine crossbuffs.
Whew, and like I said, still some touching up to do....


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

Cupcakes! Keep your 16V trash-talking outa' my thread you punk!


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

that looks like an awesome job! so how much to pp my spare crossflow head







??


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_that looks like an awesome job! so how much to pp my spare crossflow head







??

I don't even want to think about it.








Finished it up last night, another 4 hours in, so I'm somewhere around 32 hours into this head....not really something I'd do again, unless there was a significant amount of loot involved.








I'll take more pics when I get valve stems ordered and get the head back together.


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

i got ti retainers and a cam gear to day..... got my tax return its taking all my will power not to buy pistons


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

mod just took my pic of cupcakes away


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_
I don't even want to think about it.








Finished it up last night, another 4 hours in, so I'm somewhere around 32 hours into this head....not really something I'd do again, unless there was a significant amount of loot involved.








I'll take more pics when I get valve stems ordered and get the head back together.

haha I was joking I figured you would rather die than do it all again. I ported an intake manifold and throttle body before and it took me 20 times longer than I expected


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

wow, those pics are porn.....


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (wantacad)*

you must be talking about the cupcakes there gone now


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

ah roo
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...80557


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

you had better update. i know you took pics the other day, i was standing there.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

Pics tomorrow.
Cleaned up the collector on the TT header, enlarged the mounting holes and modified the head flange to fit with the Weber manifold. Will be sandblasted, painted and then wrapped, to try to keep the temps down on the backside of the motor.
Cleaned, descaled and did some minor sandblasting on the block, pretty ready to go to the machine shop once I decide on pistons. Could send it up early and have the shop get a jump on it....the distributor hold down threads need to be heli-coiled, as half of them pulled out of the block, when it was in my DD 2 years ago.
Sent the crankshaft off to Jarod at SCCH in California, weighed 31lbs without the internal trigger wheel when I sent it off, should weight somewhere closer to 25-26 when I get it back in a couple weeks.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









Still waiting on an email from USRT about the guides they have listed on their site, if i don't hear from them tomorrow I'm just going to buy them from TT, I'm tired of waiting. Then the head goes off to the machine shop to be tanked, new guides put in, 3-angle valve job, and rebuilt. Then I can CC the chambers and if need be, do some minor tweaking to even them out.
Need to stop stalling and just buy the rods, I'm going with IE ones, because I never got a response back from any SCAT carriers on how much they weigh. 
Then it's between JE and Wiseco pistons.







Oh so many decisions.


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


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## scirocco8v1984 (Oct 18, 2006)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

Scat H Beam Rods........Standard Length=1lbs.4.6oz.....Tall Block Length=1lbs.5.2oz.......Hope this Helps Out...... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## scirocco8v1984 (Oct 18, 2006)

*Re: (scirocco8v1984)*

Oh..Yeah And Those Weights Are With ARP Rod Bolts!! My Bad


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (scirocco8v1984)*

Thank you!


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

My buddy is using scat rods in his aba/16vT project.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (wantacad)*

Motor gone over with an air-needler to descale as much rust as i could get, then hit with some fairly aggressive sand with a blaster. Pretty much ready to send out pending the internals.








And in other news, engine bay work:
































Email placed to TJMotorsport inquiring about a brake bias box. Also waiting for the Guides and seals to arrive from TT. Then at least the head can be sent out to be finished.
Will be going with IE rods and 0.040 overbore 10.5:1 Wiseco pistons.


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## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

how'd the shaving go?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (ironmule)*

Looks good Jeremy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*

lookin good man









I love the shot,straight down the itb in to the valve, effin awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








cant wait to here it


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## VR-Madness (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

silly crazy eight valves http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (VR-Madness)*

Valve guides and seals came in from TT finally. Be a few weeks before I can get anything else though. Work's so slooowwwww.


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## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (secondgen)*

when do you do most of the work on the car ?


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## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

sooooooooo








you gonna have this thing runnin by the 1st week of june???


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

A box full of fun-bits arrived from the UK! Pictures up tonight when I get home and get my camera, who wants to guess what's in it!?


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

can i guess?
19in brake rotors


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

















Straight from the UK. The expensive way to get rid of vacuum assisted brakes. I was also blowing out 22mm master cylinders, so this was a logical decision. Pictures with it mocked up to the stock pedal assembly.
Not "direct fit" per say, the linkage to the pedal took some fabrication. Did however bolt directly to the 3 holes that the brake booster would have bolted to. Overall size in comparison to the stock setup is about 1-2" shorter (closer to the firewall). I already have a brake proportioning valve from my old setup. I just need to relocate the prop valve to somewhere more convenient (next to the handbrake), and run a new line from the master to it, then back to the "t" near the rear beam. Front's will all have to be re-made and i need a nicer "t" fitting as it will be seen in the engine bay. Adjustment knob will likely be mounted on the right of the steering wheel, left of the center vents in the dash, or where the cold start lever would be to the left of the steering wheel.
Both master cylinders are Girling, and were provided with the bias box.
5/8" Front Master
0.70" Rear Master
Balance bar and 1m cable w/ external adjustment knob.
Master cylinder sizes advised by Tim @ TJMotorsport.com (also where I purchased it from). I also opted for the built-in reservoirs, as I don't have somewhere neat to externally mount the bracket to hold such a set-up. Integrated reservoirs were cheaper too.










_Modified by secondgen at 4:57 PM 3-13-2009_


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

you engine bay is going to be lonely looking http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I am jealous you keep 1 upping me lol
every time i read this thread I regret not taking pics of my progress when I am at home.


----------



## 0320AEgti (Jul 1, 2006)

this is awesome man. I have read this thread prob about 10 times in the past week and have been watching it closely
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (0320AEgti)*

Thanks to all those watching and for the encouragement. I know it's not more sexy pictures of motor bits, but work's been slow, and the paychecks aren't weighing in as heavy as I'd like, so this is what I've been up to.
































Can't have a nice new motor in a crummy looking engine bay....
Will be painted single-stage, in white. So much work, remind me to never do this again if I think of it. Very much have to thank my roommate and his patient girlfriend for putting up with us. He's got the bodywork experience, so most of the credit goes to him for this. I know someone at some point will argue that this is going in a "showcar" direction, but trust me, I drive the crap out of this car(and don't plan on stopping), and the way the engine bay looked before really bothered me.
The little motor-news I have is that my crankshaft is (or should now be) on it's way back from Jarod at SCCH in California. Knife-edged, polished and balanced. I'll get the weight when it shows up here. I shipped it out weighing 31# without the internal trigger wheel.








Also, for when I do bring it to shows, mocked up the new "nice" wheels to get an idea of what tire and size spacers i need to get.








The wheels that are more toward the motor sport style I'm going for are oldschool '80s vintage Wedsport welded 2 piece wheels. No pics of these..yet, they need to be refurbished.


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (secondgen)*

looking good what are the wheel specs and which wheels are gonna be your daily's ? When are ou thinking this will be back on the road ?


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

I have no idea when it's going to be back on the road, work needs to pick up so I can buy the rest of the motor bits I need. 
RH's are 7.5x16 in the front et38 9x16 in the rear et on the wheels is 50 but I'll be running 27-28mm spacers in the back and 205-40 Kumho's all around.


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

good work jeremy! snap pics of the weds anyway i haven't seen them yet.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ironmule)*

Received the crank back from SCCH today, weighs in at 27lbs now. So compared to stock with the internal trigger wheel, that's a whole 5 pounds lighter! I'll have pictures up of it tonight when I get home. 
Bay is almost done, some spots to touch up, but I'm very happy with the end result.










































_Modified by secondgen at 8:43 AM 3-23-2009_


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

the engine bay looks great!


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

leaving the bay white jer ? Solid build http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

Thanks! VWJunkie42 did all the bodywork, and most of the hole welding, as well as the right side replacement panel fabrication. I was very skeptical, but it came out better than everything else. lol.
Yes the bay's staying white, may give it another coat or two.


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

so who's car will be done first yours or Niks?


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ironmule)*

his.


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

yay I'm gunna win something


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

hot steamy fudge


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

potato pancakes


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (BSD)*

saw car 1st hand today new parts are very yummy . http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

did you see the sweet head light harness i made


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

lookin good jeremy!!














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
whip that polish slave a few times for me








see ya in june


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

Back on track, kinda, after some major delays with someone I work with sabotaging our hard work, the bay is finally white, dry, and being put back together, all little of it.
















Firewall primed and painted. Steering column, boot, pedal cluster, and HVAC box installed. Fuse box in, and shaved of everything unnecessary. 








Headlight relay harness made, and run through the appropriate frame rails. Turns, low, high and horn all in the same harness. Internal relays, utilizing factory add-on relay pods. Plug and play into CE2 fuse box.
















Crankshaft fresh back from Jarod @ SCCH. Weighed 32# with trigger wheel before, now weighs in at 27# without the triggerwheel. This sucker's going to spin so nicely.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## relmonte (Dec 7, 2005)

Very nice.


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (relmonte)*

man i glanced at this thread a time or 2 but never thought it would go this deep









gotta give you the http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
oh and thanks now I want to build another 8v























but I may just cheat and do it old school and el cheapo........16v block 8v head and squirt it with race gas










_Modified by not SoQuick at 8:37 AM 3-29-2009_


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

Thanks! 
Waiting on the tax return to have the block worked over.
Someday I'll do a 16V bottom ended 8V, gotta love high CR's.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

did you choose your rods yet?? I know you where debating a few options.I figured I'd toss one more in the mix if you havent pulled the trigger just yet








Boostfactory has some nice new rods hitting the market with pin oiling,made and machined in the USA







Might be a bit heavier then the others but the oiled pin helps to keep the piston assembly a little cooler at high revs.
Not sure if the benefits would outweigh the weight penalty in a NA motor but imo its worth looking into








I know with my aba 16vt when I switched to drilled pauters (had a problem with other rods in the pin area)after long term abuse......uh driving







I saw less timing being pulled after extended running/tuning.
granted its no real evidence as I was pushing the envelope a lot more after my rebuild...........it made me a firm believer in getting oil to the pins


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (not SoQuick)*

I may stop by to phuc yo $hit up,after you go to sleep


----------



## Curt_pnw (Nov 27, 2005)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

sweet build! The bay looks awesome too. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Subscribed!


----------



## ramdmc (Jul 25, 2005)

*Re: My eight-valved obsession. (secondgen)*

Watched


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

you need to do more stuff. finish this crap so we can race.


----------



## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

wat would be the results compression wise if u combine 9a pistons with aba rods in a aba block with a cross flow 8v head?


----------



## frrtbkr (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Been following this for a while http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_Headlight relay harness made, and run through the appropriate frame rails. Turns, low, high and horn all in the same harness. Internal relays, utilizing factory add-on relay pods. Plug and play into CE2 fuse box.


















Can you post some more detailed shots / info?


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Your compression would be over 9000!!!


----------



## Diggatron (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*



secondgen said:


> > Nice sticker, sir! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Props to all the good work. For someone how has done a portion of the amount of work your doing and know the level of detail and issues that come up along the way sure it will look great when its finished. And really go like crazy!


----------



## Fusor2 (Mar 16, 2009)

BALLS DEEP!


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Fusor2)*

Tax return filed finally.


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (secondgen)*

last minute I see . Waiting on fed return so I can fix all the cars and sell them .


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

12:3:1 should be doable on pump gas right?















Have a couple things coming, pics when/if they show up. trying to find someone to make me a set of 11:1 pistons, JE and Wiseco are both only 10.5 and I really don't want to mill my head again.....


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

with direct injection,yes


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

secondgen - send your pistons here http://www.aftracingheads.com/contact_us.html Tell him its for a VW, Mark will take care of you.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_secondgen - send your pistons here http://www.aftracingheads.com/contact_us.html Tell him its for a VW, Mark will take care of you.


You saying buy the 12.3:1's and have them mill them to the CR I need? I need to get the head built and CC'd before I make any further decisions on pistons. Waiting on the tapered intake guides from TT, then the head will go off to the machine shop.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Yup - if in question email or call mark and ask what can be done.


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

by the way i hate you


----------



## Aurora_GL (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

what head gasket do you use?


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Aurora_GL)*

I'm going to be using a 2L 16V laminated metal gasket.


----------



## Aurora_GL (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

thanks i was double checking , i am just about to drop on my lightly ported counter flow to my stock ABA for the summer, then teardown for winter and dropping a few grand into the motor work...ect.
Great build, gives me some inspiration to keep going.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Aurora_GL)*

update:
Head's back from the machine shop!
-Seats ground to fit the oversized valves the way they should have been done the _first_ time I had them put in
-Three angle valve job
-TT tapered intake & exhaust guides installed
-Decked .005"
-Assembled
Was kinda nervous about what the machinist I brought it to was going to think about my headwork....but as it turns out he was really very impressed with it. Made my day to hear from someone who sees professionally done heads on a daily basis say he was "very impressed". Guess he used bore gauges and checked each port for consistency, all of them were within .25 mm of each other! Yay!
Lots of motor parts for the bottom end have been ordered, but are either on backorder, out of stock, or in the middle of a production run (in the case of the pistons i ordered..







...)
More as parts arrive, still looking for an affordable non-ac ABA serp setup!


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

silky smooth http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*FV-QR*

yawn


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (vwjunkie42)*

nick is a *****!








lookin good man

what cam is goin in there? 288


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (2.slowduo)*

Built injector stub harnesses while roomate (VWJunkie42) made the DB37 MS harness able to plug right into the back of the fusebox.
And....


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I continue to hate you!
going home this weekend to work on my project!


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

hey cupcake where you gunna put the oil


----------



## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_Built injector stub harnesses while roomate (VWJunkie42) made the DB37 MS harness able to plug right into the back of the fusebox.
And....

















looks good


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwjunkie42* »_hey cupcake where you gunna put the oil

Minor details.....


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

bad news i cant have cat cams


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

CC'd the head today, 32cc's +/- .1cc 
Pistons arrived fresh from No Limit/Wiseco I'll snap the pics tonight of them. They're beautiful.








Now to figure what I have to have taken off of the block height to get to the 11:1CR that I want to be at.


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

ill bring that block to ducher tomorrow, if you called tt for me


----------



## mk3vento20 (May 3, 2009)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Oh so clean... I'm jealous.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (mk3vento20)*

how you gonna get oil in that thing jer?









sweet cover none the less http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## not SoQuick (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.slowduo* »_how you gonna get oil in that thing jer?









sweet cover none the less http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










I used to pull the valve cover on my 16v for oil changes and used a small funnel in the dipstick tube for topping up.........really not as big a pita as it sounds








To the OP looking good


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I would tap one of those larger top mounting holes fot a npt, or AN plug and just fill it with a funel that way. Or I would install an AN fitting for valvecover breather, and just take that off to fill the oil


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_I would tap one of those larger top mounting holes fot a npt, or AN plug and just fill it with a funel that way. Or I would install an AN fitting for valvecover breather, and just take that off to fill the oil

blasphemy! valve cover will be untouched. will likely fill through the crankcase breather/block off plate.

block goes to machinist as soon as i get the rods from fourseasons.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*








GANGSTER







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Who makes that,I've never heard of them,what else do they make?


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

burn down the brown


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.slowduo* »_







GANGSTER







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Who makes that,I've never heard of them,what else do they make?









Bertils Race Engines it's a valve cover for the USF3 race car series. BRE wit the help/permission of VW made all the motors for the cars. They are similar to Formula Atlantic cars. Look it up.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

now you need that 301* cam







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








de tuned to 199hp








thats pretty sick


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Sweet action, looking good.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

Been playing phone tag with my machinist for the last couple weeks. My original math wasn't far off, with the pistons dropped in, and no other work, I'd be sitting about 10.1:1 CR.
So to get the extra full point higher, the plan as it sits now, is to knock .045" off the top of the block, bringing the outer "crown" of the piston up out of the top of the block by .020", now if you've ever seen some ABA pistons, they have 2 raise sections across from each other. The "squish pads". The concern now, is that they may be too close, or touching the corresponding areas in my combustion chambers, so they'll be machined off, leaving one uniform smooth "crown"around the outside of each piston.
Then I'll have to assemble, set the cam timing, with clay on the top of a piston, turn the motor over a couple times, take it all back apart, and measure how thick the clay is. Making sure that the valves don't hit the (now protruding) piston crown.
Updates and pictures when I have something worthwhile to take pictures of.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (secondgen)*

That's what my motor is, only with .035" deck height. Milled the quench pad off and block decked.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

Updates! Kinda...
Got the motor back on Saturday, went back to my shop with it to do the mock up, and get the piston to valve clearance figured out (.100"). Took some pictures along the way then got too distracted and didn't get any of the full tall block mocked up. 
Machinist made a small error in some calculations, hence the need for this mock-build. Assumed the piston dish was -13cc's, it's actually -15cc's so we're still a 1/2 CR point off. Block is now back at the machine shop correcting that little issue. But on with some shine bits!
















































At TDC....(out of the block .020")








Got this oil pan from a friend, baffles were somehow broken out of it at one point or another, and very sloppily brazed back in. So took it all apart, cleaned all the old ghetto brazing out and MIG'd the baffles back in (and straight this time...). On the fence about running this pan with a windage tray, as I've never had one not leak.
























Should have the block back this weekend, for the final assembly.








Also ditched the 2L 16V HG and went with stock metal ABA gasket, the ABA headgasket locates on the pins correctly, which as seen in the above pictures, is crucial, now that the pistons come up out of the block.


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

I tried the factory style wind-age tray with a similar if not the same pan, didn't fit.(One I bought back in the mid 80's from tt I think.) GL


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ps2375)*

Got all the final machining done, got everything back and went to assemble, and the wrist pins weren't fitting in the rods like I thought they should. Sent them back to have the bushings re-honed. Turns out they weren't honed consistently from IE. All fixed now.
Bought an ABA MLS gasket and compared it to the 9A MLS one I have been using with this block/head combo. I'll take some pictures of the differences, but the consensus is that the 9A is the one to use. On the front right of the gasket, where the smaller oil drain is (on the 9A gasket) the raised section that seals against the head and the block is oval shaped. On the ABA gasket, this area is in a larger triangular shape due to the casting in the block and [ABA] head. When you set a counterflow head on the ABA gasket, said triangular area isn't completely covered with head casting. I didn't use the ABA gasket for this reason. Though small, i think there's a possibility that it could leak in this area. In order to use the 9A gasket, and have it located on the block perfectly, I had to turn the smaller right rear line-up dowel upside-down (to fit the larger hole in the 9A gasket). The left rear pin-hole in the gasket had to be drilled to the larger diameter pin size. HG located perfectly now, with no interference with the pistons when they poke up out of the block.
The Wiseco's have had the tops of them machined down to put the piston dish at 13cc's.
The block was [IIRC] decked .040"
Piston to valve clearance with the TT276 cam @ full retard (9*) is exactly .100". Plenty of room to play with cam timing, or even a bigger, or longer duration cams. I intend on staying with the 276 for the break-in.
Bought some high temp paint today, a new waterpump, and a 80* thermostat.
Have a bunch of parts I need to have media-blasted, then painted. But it should come together quickly now.








No pics of the final build from last night, as it was 3am and I forgot to bring my camera.


----------



## Eoin16V (Jul 23, 2006)

cool deal jeremy! i will be home on the night of the 25th or the day of the 26th so i look forward to checkin it all out!


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Eoin16V)*

Looks pretty boring. Assembly luge and the ARP moly grease everywhere, but...








PS2375, you were right, you can't run the factory windage tray or the plastic oil pick-up baffle with this oil pan. I don't think it'll be a problem though.
New oil pump, and rubber gasket. Should have painted the oil pan, but whatever.


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

You should be good with that pan. On our 16V, I think I removed the windage tray on the pan in order to run the factory windage tray. Either way should work fine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ps2375)*

So to anyone that ever plans on doing this, SOAK the entire roll of wrap in water prior and while wrapping. Arms are still very itchy. Thank god I was at least wearing gloves...
















Mocked up:








Trying to sort out what to do about the throttle cable and maybe add some additional heat-shielding somehow.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

i have a roll of wrap sitting in my room, think it will be worth it, I have been putting it off for a while now?


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

No idea to be honest, never used it before. But for the amount of time and itching I've done, i friggin' hope it's worth it.








Anything to lower the intake temps on the back of this motor I look at as positive. The header is a P.O.S. it's been chopped, welded and botched so many times already I don't care if it cracks. The car is only driven in nice summer/fall days, so rain and rust aren't a huge concern either.


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Get it ceramic coated. The DP on our 8V was coated, and we once had to work on the shift linkage at an auto-x and that was right after the run and within 5 minutes or so we were able to do so and not get burnt by the exhaust. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (Coat it inside and out.)


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ps2375)*

If this header weren't so botched, I would've had it coated, but given it's condition, I felt it to costly to have it done. I got the header wrap for nothing. Used a full 50ft roll.
When/if this header breaks beyond repair or I take this motor out I'll either have a nice SS one made and coated, or buy a Eurosport one. I'll never in this lifetime pay full price for a TT header.


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

header wrap does work, i used it on my homebrew downpipe (hides ugly welds too:laugh: ) not only in the engine bay, but also on the firewall/floorboards. i was at the bike store today, brake cables are only $4.00, good for throttle cables/test fits too


_Modified by ironmule at 10:50 PM 6-24-2009_


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (ironmule)*

Yes, it does work, but with some serious acceleration to the deteriation of the header pipe. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif But , if the pipe is coated then wrapped, the pipe is protected and you get even more heat insulation. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I was actually amazed at the rate at which the pipes on that car cooled to a temp where we could work on or near the exhaust system.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

looks awsome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

finish it


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_No idea to be honest, never used it before. But for the amount of time and itching I've done, i friggin' hope it's worth it.








Anything to lower the intake temps on the back of this motor I look at as positive. The header is a P.O.S. it's been chopped, welded and botched so many times already I don't care if it cracks. The car is only driven in nice summer/fall days, so rain and rust aren't a huge concern either.

didn't we have a discussion about intake temps before? but yes it will make a huge difference, my dp is wrapped and you can touch it after driving it for any amount of time. yes it is warm/hot to the touch but nothing compared to a bare exhaust pipe. 
^x2 finish it


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (Mylch)*

so is it running yet ?


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

yeah no sh!t
its not like you have anything else to do


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

For no other reason than I thought it was cool.








In other news, I think the motor's going back to the machinist. Put the lifters and cam in it this past weekend to get the cam degreed and get more parts put on it. After the cam was in as I was turning the motor over (by hand), it stopped turning. I first suspected Cyl #3, so turned the motor back, and gently tried again. Same thing. Just a dead stop feeling. uh oh. let it sit for a while thinking maybe something would change, and what-do-you-know? about an hour later it turned over fine-ish, with the plugs in the head and tight, there's some heavy resistance (from the compression) then it gets easy.....left it alone after that.
Cleared my mind and went back to check it again today, this time, with a leak-down tester. Turning the motor over while getting it to TDC, I hear hissing out the vac, fitting on the throttle body.....sh*i*t...
Tester installed, 70+% leakage, out the intake valve.







Same thing on #3, exhaust valve this time though.















Going to make a phone call to my machinist in the AM, to see where he thinks we should go from here....








Not good, not good at all.


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (secondgen)*

sorry jer I trust you'll get it sorted , didn't mean to stir the pot


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

pull the head apart and lap the valves.


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

kaboom


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

Back to the machine shop on Tuesday.


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

I suppose that you paid him to do it correctly, he might as well do it correctly.







Is this a decent shop? I took some CroMoly pipe in to a "reputable" shop locally to have some threads put on it on a lathe, and I've seen better work out of 9th graders in their first year of machine shop class, let alone a "professional" machine shop.







I don't think I'll be taking anything back there again.


----------



## Aurora_GL (Aug 10, 2004)

*FV-QR*

i have just drove my aba counterflow the first 75 miles. used parts so no real break in, just steady and check everything 3 times. timming seems off still. but smooth, tourqey. perfect for nearly stock. i cant imagine your engine with that much time into it. good luck. i am looking forward to seeing yours complete.


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Aurora_GL)*

Get it done


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vwjunkie42)*

Progress. White was just not happening. Sooo...
Before:








After:
















All so that I could do this:
























Master cyls re-installed, all brake lines plumbed, will bleed tomorrow.
Head back from machine shop, nothing wrong with it, likely just dirt or something on the seat holding the valve open. Head is back on the motor and re-torqued.
Found all my old ABA serpentine mounting hardware, so the water pump is mounted. 
Motor should be mocked up in the car tomorrow if all goes according to plan. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Hope to have it running by the end of the month.


_Modified by secondgen at 10:20 PM 7-18-2009_


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

I agree, the white didn't look good bare. Did you have a chance to see any white bays w/ motors in them? I think a brighter color would keep the "Black hole "effect to a minimum. Just my opinion.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (ps2375)*

I would do another leak down test (I'm sure you planned on it). If he was lazy and installed new guides without cutting the seats, you could end up breaking a valve head off and trashing that nice motor. If all's good, then all's good.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_I agree, the white didn't look good bare. Did you have a chance to see any white bays w/ motors in them? I think a brighter color would keep the "Black hole "effect to a minimum. Just my opinion.









Yea I saved pictures of quite a few and saw a couple in person at the last few shows, it really just didn't flow with this car for me. And it was going to be a bitch to keep clean, and this isn't a pure show car, I intend on driving the crap out or it.









_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_I would do another leak down test (I'm sure you planned on it). If he was lazy and installed new guides without cutting the seats, you could end up breaking a valve head off and trashing that nice motor. If all's good, then all's good.

The seats were cut. The head sat open, uncovered for a couple weeks in my shop at work, while I was waiting for the lower end to be finished. It's very likely it was just crap that had gotten in there. Another leakdown test I will be doing though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_
Yea I saved pictures of quite a few and saw a couple in person at the last few shows, it really just didn't flow with this car for me. And it was going to be a bitch to keep clean, and this isn't a pure show car, I intend on driving the crap out or it.









I wouldn't think it would be too hard to keep clean, I doubt you'll be having any fluid leaks, and if you do, I don't foresee them lasting very long. You don't strike me as that kind of person.







And if it's a gloss finish, the oil should just wipe or wash right off. But the white didn't seem to "flow" with the red outside.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ps2375)*

Brakes bled, and no leaks! Pedal feels is really nice, not much different than stock.
Front rad. support/crossmember cleaned, painted and installed.
Cleaned up Autotech strut bar and painted it...you guessed it....black.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

lookin good!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_Brakes bled, and no leaks! Pedal feels is really nice, not much different than stock.

The real diff will be in how much leg it'll take to stop it. Shouldn't be outrageous, just more than w/ the booster. It'll look good in the bay, though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ps2375)*

It's in, not final, but in. Need to mock a bunch of stuff up. Turns out I have much more room than I thought I was going to have between the throttles and the firewall.
























Motor sits super crooked to the transmission side for some reason. Going to have to get creative to space the tans mount up so that it sits flat. Ideas?


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

Well, the black does make the bright bits standout. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Eoin16V (Jul 23, 2006)

looking sweet jeremy. 
I hear those clear caps break a lot.


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_
Motor sits super crooked to the transmission side for some reason. Going to have to get creative to space the tans mount up so that it sits flat. Ideas?

shim it in between trans mount and bracket. then just get longer bolt


----------



## fuchsgti (Jul 2, 2008)

awesome build


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (fuchsgti)*

Swapped the coilovers back over to the car from the daily. Daily needed to be back at a feasable height anyways.
Got the mono-wiper tweaked to fit. Will need to drill a different hole for the wiring, as the hole i planned on using....just isn't going to work...
More this week I hope. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_
Got the mono-wiper tweaked to fit. 
. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


wait who


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vwjunkie42)*

I specified no name. Shut it you punk.


----------



## bubba_vw (Dec 3, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_For no other reason than I thought it was cool.








In other news, I think the motor's going back to the machinist. Put the lifters and cam in it this past weekend to get the cam degreed and get more parts put on it. After the cam was in as I was turning the motor over (by hand), it stopped turning. I first suspected Cyl #3, so turned the motor back, and gently tried again. Same thing. Just a dead stop feeling. uh oh. let it sit for a while thinking maybe something would change, and what-do-you-know? about an hour later it turned over fine-ish, with the plugs in the head and tight, there's some heavy resistance (from the compression) then it gets easy.....left it alone after that.
Cleared my mind and went back to check it again today, this time, with a leak-down tester. Turning the motor over while getting it to TDC, I hear hissing out the vac, fitting on the throttle body.....sh*i*t...
Tester installed, 70+% leakage, out the intake valve.







Same thing on #3, exhaust valve this time though.















Going to make a phone call to my machinist in the AM, to see where he thinks we should go from here....








Not good, not good at all.

where did u get the clear red distributor cap from?? that looks cool!!


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (bubba_vw)*

E bay
I am gonna wait and see how it holds up with jeremy,before I get one
does look pretty cool tho


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2.slowduo* »_E bay
I am gonna wait and see how it holds up with jeremy,before I get one
does look pretty cool tho









Why? They're $4! Yes, bought off ebay.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

well then I will take 4, and just leave a couple in the trunk just in case


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

Motor is bolted in. Heater pipe installed w/ both heater core hoses. using an early PL 16V feed hose as it follows the pipe closer and looks cleaner than the 8V version. Shift linkage attached. Serpentine bracket installed. Water pump and crank pulleys installed. Need to order an Alternator tomorrow, as i found out that mine decided to seize itself over the winter.








Removed the dash and HVAC unit again and dyno-mat-equivalent-ed the firewall and the underside of the rain tray. Drilled and ran the wiring for the wiper motor, nice and hidden with a grommet through the back of the rain tray. Painted and installed wiper motor and linkage. Sorted through all the under dash wiring, cleaning it up nice and tidy-like.







Most of it is installed and plugged into the fuse box.
Ordered a Taylor battery box. Still looking at Mil-spec connectors for the MS and motor harness.
Catch can and fuel line will be ordered later this week. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: (secondgen)*

non-ac box?


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Mylch)*

Yup. Came factory without it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Getting there....








Fiberglass porch screening over the front of the radiator to try and help catch road/air debris and maybe extend the life of the radiator some. Had a lot of bugs and rocks and such stuck in it.







Cleaned and flat painted the aluminum shied on the right, helps direct air through the radiator instead of around it. Bonus, keeps road grime off the rest of the motor.








70A Bosch Alternator belt installed and power cables run to starter, and from starter, through frame rail to trunk and into the new Taylor battery box. Battery box bolted through floor, meets NHRA specs, and is vented out the floor. 4ga battery cable (+) and the (-) off the battery is 2ga, grounded at the mounting bolt hole for the rear seat-belts. Black carpet trunk side covers installed too.
































AN -10 90* bulkhead fitting out of valve cover to STEF'S oil catch can. Need like 8" of -10 hose....but have t buy a 3' section. Ugh.
















Close-up of brake lines/Master cyl. Took the old hardware out and replaced w/ stainless allen heads, because all the other SS everywhere made the "normal" bolts bother me.







Let's not talk about it though, hurts my wallet to think about it.
















Spent the day today doing the batt. box and sorting out wiring/making harnesses, etc. no pics because it's laborious, boring and isn't cool looking until it's done. More tomorrow....


_Modified by secondgen at 10:08 PM 8-1-2009_


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Looking good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
When you ran your brake lines what end did you start at? Caliper end or master cylinder?


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

yeah its looking good cupcake http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif now can you fix my pos 8v?


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

edit










_Modified by ps2375 at 9:38 AM 8-2-2009_


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*









This is a Jetta? Why the washer bottle in the trunk?
It all looks great. I couldn't take this long, I'd *HAVE* to be driving this car *NOW* .







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by ps2375 at 9:40 AM 8-2-2009_


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (ps2375)*



ps2375 said:


> This is a Jetta? Why the washer bottle in the trunk?[/QUOTE=ps2375]
> 
> to clean up the enginebay
> looks good jeremy!


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

That's for the front windshield? OK.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Mylch)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mylch* »_Looking good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
When you ran your brake lines what end did you start at? Caliper end or master cylinder?

Start at master cylinders.
Washer bottle is from a MK1 GTI, mounted in the trunk, extended power wires, and hard plastic line from bottle to engine bay. Still not sure I'm going to route it up there now though..


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_That's for the front windshield? OK.
 no, for his brakelights.








yes its his washer reservoir for the front wipers, weight reduction/weight displacement(although i'm sure the whole 1 lb of it won't amount to much)










_Modified by ironmule at 4:28 PM 8-3-2009_


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (ironmule)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ironmule* »_ weight reduction/weight displacement(although i'm sure the whole 1 lb of it won't amount to much)

I doubt he moved it for either of those reasons, more likely to shave the looks of the bay, after all, the dull plastic will not look too well w/ all the shiny stuff up front.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ps2375)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ps2375* »_
I doubt he moved it for either of those reasons, more likely to shave the looks of the bay, after all, the dull plastic will not look too well w/ all the shiny stuff up front.

True that.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


----------



## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Wow, looking good Jeremy. Got to swing down and check it out some time this week http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ironmule (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_
True that.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









 nope weight balancement


----------



## VR-Madness (Jan 28, 2007)

*Re: (ironmule)*

nice build......... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (VR-Madness)*

update or die


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

I know you guys are workin on it and I know nick just got a camera
so lets see it!!


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

oh cup cake


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

sold the car.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

say it aint so







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
for a dsm? http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif








after all that work? WTF!!


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

You don't seriously think I'd sell this car do you.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*

cakes don't have brains, so you never know








I need to hear this thing,make a vid with nick's super camera


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

no vids with the new camera 
but i have a pic


----------



## Mylch (Nov 19, 2006)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

that Triumph is sick http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Mylch)*

Whats directly in front of the ITB trumpets? the firewall or the rain tray?
Just wondering at what angle they are at.
Nice setup. BTW


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Whats directly in front of the ITB trumpets? the firewall or the rain tray?
Just wondering at what angle they are at.
Nice setup. BTW

Firewall, I'll get some more pics soon.
IT'S ALIVE!


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*


Derek, ~3.5" +/- .5" end of trumpet to firewall.


























_Modified by secondgen at 10:01 PM 8-26-2009_


----------



## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Very nice sounds on the vid. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (ps2375)*

meh sounds ok i guess


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif















yay it lives,now throw it at the rollers!!
when you guys going to tune it?


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

its not quite drivable yet.
and cake you need to bleed the brakes or im not driving it wile you tune
and wire the headlights .


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Thats nice clearance - trumpet to firewall. Soulds good too, glad to see it running again.
That would be fun to do some plenum development for it.
The plenum would change the sound a bit but could also help build more power. A plenum with a large trumpet where the throttle body is with about 3 liter plenum. Think could make a plenum out of CF. Could the trumpets be bolted in from the head side? Just thinking ..here.
Hey send me a PM sometime if your interested in testing out a plenum for those ITBs.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

im jealous of your running car and firewall clearance lol


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


----------



## Eoin16V (Jul 23, 2006)

ewww rounds? i just threw up in my mouth a little bit...

sounds good jeremy! how did the tuning go last night?


----------



## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: (secondgen)*


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (vwjunkie42)*

Swapped the Ignition over to Alpha-N last night did some highway cruise tuning, works so much better. Power is smoother, cruise isn't as studdery, AFR smoother. Had to re-tune much of the fuel map, as the changed ignition timing sent a bunch of it all out of whack.
Took it to Lebanon Valley Dragway last night, to do some WOT datalogs. Ran a *14.8 @ 94MPH* last run of the night. Not bad for the first time out with the new motor, bad alignment, and 14" over-inflated snow tires.








Car is randomly lean-spiking and dying, and not letting me restart now though. Got it running after an hour last night, and thought it was a fluke, but did it again on the way into work this AM, wouldn't restart, had to have it towed.















Pipercross 40mm filters ordered through  True Choice 
Now through 2 oil changes, motor running strong, very little blow-by getting into the catch can. 
Need to figure something out to get the IAT's down, logging shows nothing lower than 98*F on 40-50* ambient temp nights.


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (secondgen)*















really? 14.8 on snow tires holy crap!!
now I am really unimpressed with nics time\driving
good work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

on my counterflow the IAT's have always been much higher than that unless cruising on the highway those seem pretty decent to me. My ish should be running in the next week we can compare


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: (secondgen)*

FWIW...I ran 14.3X at 93.5 on an ITB'd ABA counterflow head. My point being - there's a bunch more in that scoot with some tires and seat time. 
I always enjoyed hardware more than seat time but the seat time is a much better value.....
Interesting info on the Alpha N. I ran my ITBs and a Delta Cams 308 on speed density and it was definitely twitchy. Now that the set up is long, long gone, I wonder what could have been......


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (Andrew Stauffer)*

You had the Puma ITB's correct? I think I have pics saved of your old setup. Good to know.
When I first got this motor going I immediately pulled a bunch of timing out of it too, so there's more hp in it as well. Need to figure out why it died on my this morning, and now won't restart before I can do much more of anything useful.


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_
Need to figure something out to get the IAT's down, logging shows nothing lower than 98*F on 40-50* ambient temp nights.

How about phenolic spacer for the intake, and a shield between the headers and the intake?
Where is the IAT measurement taken? It could be an average temp - where during overlap your getting cylinder temp pushed out the intake.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

IAT is mounted 1/2" outside the trumpet mouth on the #4 throttle body:
(look just above the #3)








Due to the way the throttle cable actuates, I think it would be difficult to get an effective heat sheild under the throttle bodies/manifold, there would have to be 2 separate shields one under each ITB assembly.
Most effective would be to build a plenum around the trumpets and feed them cold air from a remote location. But i've got very tight constraints on how much room there is back there. I think a solution might be to curve the trumpets upward, thus creating more room and also lengthening the overall length, which could help low-end performance. Not that I think this motor needs anything more down low.


----------



## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_
How about phenolic spacer for the intake, and a shield between the headers and the intake?
Where is the IAT measurement taken? It could be an average temp - where during overlap your getting cylinder temp pushed out the intake.

Yep, mine were the Puma's. They went Mendra's way (of 20/20 fame)and then I don't what became of them.
There is something to what ny_fam says.....the IAT as close to the air filter as possible is good for a stock intake set up....on ITBs, I might even just put it in front of the rad. MSnSe doesn't do a whole lot based on IAT unless you ask it to and I always found it easier not to deal with. Then again, I left alot on the table. How much of it was IAT related, dunno.....


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I will be using a teflon spacer on my setup








but I don't think it will help at all the bottom of the manifold is actually touching the header in a spot or two.

I use IAT/CLT avg to do warmup enrich/settings, and to add fuel if the motor gets really hot other than that it doesn't do much. I mounted my sensor in a hole in the rain tray slightly above the velocity stacks 
after I get my car inspected I will probably tear out the heaterbox and do something like this.








MKIIRoc's car 


_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 10:22 PM 9-10-2009_


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Andrew Stauffer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Andrew Stauffer* »_
Yep, mine were the Puma's. They went Mendra's way (of 20/20 fame)and then I don't what became of them.


Lol 20/20 fame - whatever. 
The Pumas are alive and breathing in a MK2 16v owned by Ryan Rupp. I forget his vortex name.


----------



## fuchsgti (Jul 2, 2008)

both 8v so clean.i like how everything is blacked out except the engine looking good guys.


----------



## blackkaa (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (fuchsgti)*

I have to tell you driving next to you to Broke Down listening to the sound of this car is amazing . We need a back road Cruise when it's all dialed in


----------



## 2.slowduo (Sep 17, 2008)

*Re: (blackkaa)*

heres a plenum for ya








I know its on the wrong side and shizle
Details....







minor details


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (2.slowduo)*

Down and back from H20i, 26-28 MPG average, dyno tuning session here soon in the next couple weeks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Running and driving well.
Pipercross filters on, looking for some new trumpets, to get the filters from the linkage, as occasionally the cable binds in the foam and causes the throttles to go WOT.....sometimes not so fun.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

in case you were still wondering I was pulling ambient temps at anything over 25mph. At lights and stuff it would go up to 94f or so then drop right back down when i would move. The engine temperature actually dropped quite a bit from what it used to be without the itb's


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_in case you were still wondering I was pulling ambient temps at anything over 25mph. At lights and stuff it would go up to 94f or so then drop right back down when i would move. The engine temperature actually dropped quite a bit from what it used to be without the itb's 

I never even opened MT on the drive down, back or while I was there.
I did however notice the engine temps plummeted with the ITB's as well.


----------



## RustyMKII (Feb 4, 2004)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Just want to congratulate you on getting it all together and working.
Great job! ive been following this build since the beginning, very inspiring.
Well actually I believe I used your MSQ posted on the MS success stories board to help set up my Jetta. Back when you were sans ITB. 
Your VE table was almost perfect for me, very slight changes. Makes sense as my set-up is almost identical to your old setup. 
Ive been waiting to build my own ITB setup since following CDNDUB's build thread. Finally have all the parts just need to make a manifold. Seeing another counterflow 8v ITB done is just the inspiration I needed! I better get to work.
Thanks again!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm wondering if there are any updates?
I'm trying to live vicariously through your car







.


----------



## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

no updates.








Haven't had the patience or interest in playing with it. Still haven't even had it dynoed.
Was having a ton of issues with the car leaving me stranded. Would drive somewhere, sometimes far, sometimes 5 min down the road, and upon trying to return, the car wouldn't start. No ECU power. Replaced the main relay multiple times, with no effect. Got real tired of wondering if i was going to get stuck somewhere.
Still having communications issues as well, and the last time I went out and tried tuning, the ecu-laptop communication, stopped altogether. I've tried 3 different cables, pined out connectors, everything. No idea why it does this. 
Right now i'm taking a break from the car, and working on a Audi 4kq. I may end up pulling the V3MS2 board out of the car, and putting the old v2.2ms1 back in. I NEVER had any issues with it. Granted the maps will be smaller, but the peace of mind might be worth it.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









Trying to sell the RH's, and get something a little more themed toward the motorsport flavor of the car. The selling market for the wheels is dead, and noone interested, so I'm kinda stuck at a standstill.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Doh. Sorry to hear







.


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## 1989Jetta (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

So atleast update us with the lastest Audi fab work lol. Sick build man, can't wait til you get back to work on it and post pics.


_Modified by 1989Jetta at 4:38 PM 11-21-2009_


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (1989Jetta)*

Out of the archives, and storage it comes.
Drove it for about 20 minutes after taking it out of storage and remembered all over again why I wanted to murder this car last year. Drive-ability BLOWS.
As a last resort and on a wing and a prayer, I decided to try and move the injectors from the head, in the OE location, to the mounting spots on the bodies themselves.
Took some finagle-ing, but got it hooked up and working well enough to test on the road. Immediate reaction: it idles!!!!!!!! And smoothly, cold, hot, whenever!!!!!!! Throttle response is still incredible, around-town drive-ability, is 100X better. Spiking a little on the rich side AFR-wise on lift throttle conditions, but that I think I may be able to get around with some more tuning. Still runs around 12:1 AFR @ WOT, so definably some tuning needed in there....
But WOW. I dare say its faster than it was. But that could just be because I've been driving a slow Audi for months.
Pics soon, have to extend/reroute/clean up the injector harnesses now, as they are both too short.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

MY FAVORITE THREAD IS BACK!








Sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

New horns ordered. Straight from TWM, which, come to find out are no longer spun/stamped aluminum, but BILLET now......which *barely* justifies what I paid for them.







They'll be produced late this week and shipped out (i hope) the week of the 12th.
Still working on a better throttle linkage/ cable setup.....


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Strange that moving the injectors made that much a difference. Were you only running 1squirt/simult before?


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Strange that moving the injectors made that much a difference. Were you only running 1squirt/simult before?

To be honest Paul, its been so long since i had MT open, I don't even know what my settings are anymore. I was having major communications issues last year. So I'm hoping that the new ECU will fix that.... the ECU in the car now has been molested to hell and back.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

I hear ya, molested doesn't even cover what's up with mine anymore!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_
To be honest Paul, its been so long since i had MT open, I don't even know what my settings are anymore. I was having major communications issues last year. So I'm hoping that the new ECU will fix that.... the ECU in the car now has been molested to hell and back.

Editing my post to keep the thread on track http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.



_Modified by B4S at 12:26 PM 4-9-2010_


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Updates!
Used some bits and pieces from the linkage on a Porsche 924 throttle body to make a second return spring on the right throttle body housing. Made returning to a consistent idle much better. Only slightly stiffer pedal feel.








Oh yes. Billet deliciousness. 








I'm sure the car will be happy to have some air filtration....a least until the first intake backfire burns a filter off.....again....
In other news, I'm going to have to throw out my spherical rear beam pivots, as the one's Bildon sells haven't even held up for even a year. I'm really unimpressed with the build quality and longevity of these. One could argue they weren't meant for a road car....but I don't drive this nearly as hard as any race car. And i know some racetracks aren't nearly as nice as some of the roads i drive on... Doesn't help that the "replacement" bearings they sent me last year weren't even close to what came with the set initially. And they wouldn't let me return them. I may have a machinist friend of mine help reverse engineer a better design/set..... sometime down the line.... 
For now, unless someone has a better solution, stock ones are going back in.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (secondgen)*

New 55mm vs. Old (no longer even produced stamped/rolled) 35mm:








With pipercross filters attached:








Crappy picture of them all installed:








Also addressing/relocating the catch-can. Likes to come loose and spill all over my frame rail....


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## newbluevw (Sep 17, 2003)

hey man i did this setup and im running into hella problems. if u can please contact me and maybe u can awnser some questions. my number is 2013287378. text me call me whatever im never really online and i need awnsers pretty bad thanks man


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

Knock knock! Anyone still there? 

This has come back [again!] out of storage and has been getting some new stuff. Stay tuned for transmission swap Quaife'd 02a/J, new Billet ITB's, header, some fancy shmancy injectors and hopefully some new dyno numbers!


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## newbluevw (Sep 17, 2003)

So I figured it out ..... All I had to do was get a cruise control piece off of a 1989 vw gti and then solder a wire into the middle pin. Then connect it to the ecu vss output. Really it is that simple I didn't believe it

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

newbluevw said:


> So I figured it out ..... All I had to do was get a cruise control piece off of a 1989 vw gti and then solder a wire into the middle pin. Then connect it to the ecu vss output. Really it is that simple I didn't believe it


lol, I'm glad you're still following this, but I have no idea what you're talking about!? :laugh:


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## newbluevw (Sep 17, 2003)

secondgen said:


> lol, I'm glad you're still following this, but I have no idea what you're talking about!?


Holy crap I just realized the list I made was 3 years ago hahaha different car whole other set of issues. Damn I'm excited so you wound up going itb?

Sent from my Z970 using Tapatalk


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

Was ITB before, just sold the TWM's and went to a new set to try to remedy some of the issues I had with them. Has a whole
Different set of little problems to overcome, but this setup should be much better than the old setup. I've ceramic coated basically everything to cut as much heat as possible. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

One of my biggest problems with the old setup was the propensity to single-tire-fire from stoplights especially if the light was on an incline. The motor just rev'd and made torque so damn fast it was hard not to. So the first thing to go was the 020. I bartered a whole bunch of work in exchange for a Kraftwerks built 02A/J with a Quaife installed. It came with an ACT clutch that was installed on a 1.8T in a mk2 for a very short while. Going to a cable shift transmission was going to involve more fabrication work than a typical swap into a mk2. Mostly because of the bias box for the brakes that I'm running. I sourced an ABS equipped 02A booster bracket from a Corrado to chop up rather than a non-ABS one as they're getting harder to come by. I only needed the slave attachment portion of it, so the fact that the boost part was "wrong" was a non-issue. Welded that up to the bias box after marking the holes in the firewall to cut with non-ABS bracket as my template. Sent the modified bracket out for powdercoat. Installed a diaphragm type firewall seal on the bracket to try and keep the breeze out. Modified the tunnel to fit a modified mk4 shift box assembly. I removed the cable to adjust the bias box from in the car as I found I never used it. One less thing in the bay.

Out with the old(complete 5 spd swap is available!)









In with the new

























Tapped the rear brake reservoir for clutch fluid feed, this is experimental, I have no idea if it will work yet.

























Bought a "tallblock" TT race header and lopped off the pipe after the collector, welded on a v-band and cleaned up the HORRENDOUS metal work inside the collector.  This is being ceramic coated inside and out as we speak. The shown 02 bung will not be used as the location is awful.

















Parts from powdercoat









I'll be running a phenolic spacer between the head and intake manifold, and between the ITB's and manifold. The intake has been ceramic coated inside and out. Trying to keep as much heat away from the ITB's as possible. A CF airbox is likely going to be installed in the future to draw cold air from the front of the car.










ITB's are larger than the TWM's, went up to 45mm's from 40's. I realize it's larger than this motor needs currently, but for future plans and many other reasons, 45's were my choice. RHD's from Australia.










The trumpets are 45's, sourced via eBay, from Hungary. Cast aluminum and very, very light.


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## UroTuning (Jul 18, 2012)

More updates!!!!! This is what i want to do to my motor! Why am i soo poor.


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## HaydenVR6 (Jul 21, 2011)

This is awesome


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## root beer (Jun 22, 2004)

Nice stuff!


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## starksan (Mar 30, 2013)

Those ITB's are sweet, cheap too.
Have you dyno'd your current setup yet?


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

starksan said:


> Those ITB's are sweet, cheap too.
> Have you dyno'd your current setup yet?


Negative, still working over header fitment "issues" and trying to hunt down a Corrado VR6 front and rear sub frame to convert to mk3 style motor mounts. Need to sort out the motor mounts before getting into the header resolution. Then I'm thinking I'll probably be re-wiring the Megasquirt and some other things because I really dislike now how I had done them originally.

Also because these ITB's don't have the ability to self balance via a bypass screw like my old TWM's I'll need to purchase a new carb balancer and just balance the two "banks". These don't have vacuum ports either, so I may end up loosing my MAP sensor to megasquirt as well. Car was tuned alpha-N so the MAP was more for reference more than anything.


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## bvillelounge (Jan 28, 2003)

I tapped each manifold runner on mine. I have a Vr6 Corrado front cross member, if that helps. Looks good:thumbup:


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## rodperformance (Oct 9, 2010)

*hi*

Subscribed!! Long time development like this is what keeps me motivated to finish mine!


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

Hey Jeramy how about an update. I know you been working on it I was there. #coupethursdays


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Nice, you will love the hookup with a real diff.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

MkIIRoc said:


> Nice, you will love the hookup with a real diff.


I hope so! The lack of traction, especially when starting on hills was one of my biggest complaints.


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm gunna post this because I have the pics. Ok
Jeramy has started to love the pass though seat in the back of his mk3 jetta. So we decided to to a golf folding rear seat in the back of the coupe. 

First off we had to remove the panel behind the stock jetta seat. Drilled out all the spot welds. 








After test fitting the seat I found we needed a little more room so I rolled the edge of the top panel over. This added about a half inch more and a little support for the luggage shelf. 








We then went to a junkyard and got latches from a golf there. A bit of testing and measuring and welled them in. 
















Installed the golf trim covers for the wheel well. 
















It was all pretty simple to do and I can't figure out why the wouldn't just do this from the factory. 








































It all looks factory and fits real nice. 


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

Interior stripped, holes fixed, prepped and primed and coated in 2gal. of Lizard Skin Sound Control. Makes a HUGE difference.



















Also built a header to fit my application, since the TT off-the-shelf ones don't fit...:banghead: Thanks Colin @ TT for hooking me up with the parts kit. Was a PITA to build, but it's a done deal.




























Progress!


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## vwjunkie42 (Jan 17, 2003)

You stole my pictures. Lol. I have more if you want me to send them to you. 


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

I did! 

Cleaned up the horrendous stock TT collector, didn't take an as-arrived picture, but here's some progress and final. This will all be ceramic dipped when final. Working out optimum collector outlet diameter. 

























Grind out the cut flash, weld, grind, repeat until it was even with a clean point. Glad I only have to do that once. Whew.


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## wolfcastle (Jul 28, 2006)

Nice car dude!


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

Made the support brace for the rear shelf and welded it in. Then mocked up 60/40 folders. Both the 60/40 and the single folder seat latches were occasionally catching on the back tray sheet metal that we had to fold over. So cut that area of the shelf back to make room for the latch travel. Then welded it into the support bar for better support and to clean the area up neatly. Came out pretty good, looks like garbage with raw weld and undercoating everywhere but whatever. All of it will be covered in the end anyways. 

































Also, don't let water under your lizard skin, let it freeze and then bring it inside. It'll come up. This may also be my fault for not touching up the paint enough for proper adherence. It'll be easy enough to touch up, so I'm not worried about it. But full disclosure of how the product is working out. Now you know.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

Parts!
Euro fenders, cowl panel, gas door surround repair panel, and fuel tank upper neck support repair panel, door and trunk seals.


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