# Vortech charger. Having a lack of boost issue.



## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

Just installed a Vortech V9 on my 12v obd1 vr6 corrado. Everything went together smooth. The car runs and drives smooth and pulls great. Only thing is ..it has an 8 psi pulley on it. And I am making a very strong and consistent 6psi. 

I've tried the boost gauge in different spots. 
Tried the vacuum off the dv in deff spots. Even tried a diff spring and reversing the dv. 
-something i do notice is the dv has not made a peep... like its not opening. i have opened it up, made sure the spring is right, cleaned and re greased with mobil1 high temp syn grease..
I've checked all connection and hose clamps. 
Re-routed the intake to a more air sufficient spot.

To no avail. 6psi strong to red line in every gear.. No matter what i do. 
And i know it is an 8psi pulley. I measured it.

Any info from experience with these things?


_edit: current other mods to the car-_

2.9 mani and throttle body
autotech 262 cams
2 1/4 straight pipe from cat back
a/c and p/s delete
using c2 stge 1 most current version.


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## 91gtiturbo (Apr 1, 2003)

are you running a dual idler? possible belt slip?


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

def not belt slip. i heard that when i first installed the new belt. tightened and havent heard it since.

i got this from a veteran texr on here....

I think that your "issue" is likely caused by the cams. My car had cams as well, and I think they were about the same duration as yours. In a way, boost is a measurement of resistance to flow. The more air that the engine can gobble up the less air will be in the intake tract. The less air in the intake the less psi the boost gauge will read. What is a more accurate gauge of air flow would be cfm of the MAF, because that just measures the mass/amount of air that is passing by. With a turbo, you could just turn the boost up to compensate, but things are more difficult with a supercharger. The one issue could be if the duration is long enough to allow boost to come into the combustion chamber and shoot right past the exhaust valve, wasting the compressed air. I don't think you have a radical enough cam and/or enough boost to allow that to happen.
So to summarize, you likely don't have a problem and are probably making slightly more power than another engine with the same pulley without the cams (depending on where the supercharger is in it's efficiency island). If you can somehow log the MAF g/s and compare with a similar car you can tell for sure, or you could dyno it and see if your whp is where it should be.


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## burnite2 (Jan 14, 2009)

check the boost side piping for pin holes and the DV if its closing all the way. i have the same cam setup as you but running VF/GIAC software and see 8psi at redline.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

everything seems tight.

-all the hose clamps and good. 
-i checked all the rubber piping from the dv. 
-replaced 1 dv hose that had cracks/swelling(hose coming off the charge pipe into the bottom of the dv)
-i bought over 5 feet of brand new vw vacuum line and replaced every line there was. 
-every connection big enough has a hose clamp. 
-i deleted the isv damper cuz it was cracked

after all this AND a 10 psi pulley i see 7 to 8 psi.

i'm replacing the t/b and upper to lower mani gaskets next. and buying a can of carb cleaner to check for any leaks.

it really seems to struggle to make more boost after 6. there's gotta be something letting go after that amount of pressure.
the only nice thing about the car now is that i make 6psi a lot earlier haha


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## Autoboost-tech (Dec 27, 2009)

pulley psi sizing is based on mustang 5.0 crank pulley only! which is a different size than yours, you could measure your crank pulley and use a psi calculator to get what boost your looking for, or just drop to the next smaller pulley and see where it gets you 

pulley speed and boost calculator link

http://www.928motorsports.com/services/selectingpulley.html


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

The kit came with the supplied stage 2 8psi pulley as a full kit for this exact car. Which made 8psi on the previous owners same kind of car. With correct measuring searchng and specs the pulley installed now...at a quarter inch smaller makes 10psi on a v9 on a vr6.

Anyone have a better idea for checking for leaks? The Carb cleaner should give me a response if sucked in by the vacuum at idle.


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## CorrieG60 (Jan 18, 2004)

You do realize that you have different cams installed?? Which causes a drop in measured pressure due to the upgraded flow into the cilinders....
Just like flowing the cilinde head, with the same setup you'll measure a drop in psi, but an increase in Hp!


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

What brand is your boost gauge?
I have seen some read incorrectly as far as 3 psi.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

I have cams!?!?! Lol..yes I know. That was mentioned before in the previous quoted post in here. I understand that. And it makes sense. Now explain the zero increase in psi going to a smaller pulley that should produce ten and I still got 6 until I redid all the vacuum lines and deleted the isv damper. Gaining me 1 psi. Rarely 2.


I have used two boost gauges. First was a crappy auto zone. I now have a vdo gauge. Always tapped in right into the fpr. Also tried going off two other vacuum lines as well.


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

The VDO's tend to be off ~ 2psi. Autometers are the only ones we use. 

Are you running the stock crank pulley?
What size pulley do you have on the charger?

I will be more than glad to calculate out your boost.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

Really? I would have thought a vdo gauge would be the closest to accurate as you can get. O well. 

Anyway.. I have a stock crank pulley. It's a V9 charger with a 2.5" pulley. I'm hitting 6psi a lot earlier than the 2.75" pullley which is nice. But it only makes it to 7psi sometimes a hair into 8psi at redline on the vdo gauge. O..and with a 19-20vacuum at idle if that helps at all.

I would thought jumping to a smaller pulley which is supposed to make 2 more psi i would at least see a 2 psi increase to a steady 8psi.

I'm trying to get onto a dyno on sept 19th. So that will have a story to tell. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

With the 2.5 your beyond the max speed for the charger. But that should make ~11.8psi

With the 2.75 you would be @ 10psi.

Still sounds like your belt is slipping. Your vac readings are good.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

wtf. Now i'm really getting confused. I'm getting different info from everywhere. 

The pulley i got was supposedly an 8psi pulley..and he made 8psi on it..with the same car as me minus the difference in mods.

The pulley i got was supposedly a 10psi pulley for this charger on my car..now it's an 11psi pulley and still making 7psi. haha. this is getting interesting. 

Also..the vacuum reading also says i really dont have any leaks.. correct?



edit... i take a passenger with me every time i've driven this car since the install. we both hear when it slips. it hasnt since the first two runs on the new pulley/belt. and even on the first pulley we eliminated slip. unless it's some really ninja belt slip..that's not it. that belt is tight.


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## [email protected] (May 14, 2009)

The 8psi pulley is a 3.12" dia from VF. As for the vacuum readings, you could have a clamp that is only leaking under boost. The VF clamps some times are not that tough and require some replacements. Another issue that tends to happen is that the charge piping going from the charger to the throttle body tends to hit the shock tower causing the tension on the belt to slacken. This can be solved by clocking the charger slightly.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

3.12"...I'll measure the pulley the guy gave me with the kit claiming its an 8psi pulley. 

I've bought a ton of new/better clamps. i think the only original ones left are pre charger

i have bfi stage one mounts all around the engine doesn't move much but I'll take that into consideration because the charge pipe does sit pretty close to the tower.

I've seen dyno's and other claims of people using a 2.25" inch pulley on their v9.. maybe people and possibly myself included are measuring them wrong..if you can even do so...

..thanks for chiming in noah.. maybe we'll get somewhere. :thumbup:


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

try another boost gauge.


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## BoostedTinCan (May 22, 2005)

this kit was on my 92 dizzy corrado, it made 8 psi for a second at most towards the end of redline, i had stock exhaust ,stock cams,mk4 head gasket, and lighten autotech flywheel, can't think of anything else then maybe cam difference, kinda makes sense. I used autometer gauge. I did read complaints that people were not seeing 8psi on some setups in the 12v supercharged thread, not sure why.... hmm


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## littlenr (Jan 23, 2002)

6vdubbin9 said:


> 3.12"...I'll measure the pulley the guy gave me with the kit claiming its an 8psi pulley.
> 
> ..thanks for chiming in noah.. maybe we'll get somewhere. :thumbup:


Measure the pulley on top of the lands. Thats the top peak of the ribs. Is the belt walking around at all? 

What DV are you using? The oem valve from a 1.8t? If so toss it and get a better valve!! I had to do this and gained a ton from it. 

If you are using worm clamps on boost pipes you will loose boost. Only use t-bolt clamps. I've never had any luck with anything but t-bolt clamps. 

You could rig up a boost leak tester. Take a PVC cap the size of the intake to the charger. Put a air gauge, ball valve, and a hose bib on the PVC. Attach the cap to the intake of the charger with a rubber coupler. Put 10-15psi into the system with the car off. Get a soapy water mix and spray every joint/ coupler down. Look for bubbles.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

for a vf kit, v9 blower, the stage 2 pulley is 2.7" and should get you to about 8psi at redline.

with a 2.5" pulley, again on a v9, you should see almost 12psi, like Noah said.

I have a 2.5" pulley that I cut grooves in for increased traction, and have tightened my belt all the way (the bracket is maxed out), and I see just barely 11psi if I run it all the way to 7k rpm. I do have an intercooler and all 3" piping, which probably accounts for the small drop in pressure. I also have a VDO gauge. You could try an autometer gauge if you really want to get anal about it.

How does the car drive? If it's pulling well, and you like it, don't worry about it. Take it to the dyno, like you said, and if the numbers look good, you're golden. Who cares what the gauge reads?


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

At what RPM are you reading you r peak boost? most are rated for 7000rpm it seems.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

littlenr:

i'll remeasure just to be sure. the belt does not move. it stays steady.

i'm using a forge 007 with the green spring (5-12?psi) i've tried the one vf supplies and the spring vf supplies. no difference.

i'll change from screw clamps to t-bolt clamps soon. but those suckers are tight as well.

obdone:

if 2.5 produces 11-12psi i should really see more than 7-8psi. i'll re-tighten the belt again tonight just to do it.. how did you put groves in yours? small file?

car drives good. pulls hard. but not 10psi with cams hard. i'm gunna have to hit the dyno for peace of mind on this. 

all possible problems aside..say everything is working.. with what i have. what would i be looking at for dyno numbers? it really feels like 240ishwhp car...to me..i feel like i should be seeing more power than that.. but like i've been told..the linear power of a charger can be very deceiving to the butt dyno..


corradomagic:

i see 6psi by 4500..ish. and tops off 7 around 6500..i try to not go past that. i once did and i tipped into 8psi.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

6vdubbin9 said:


> littlenr:
> obdone:
> 
> if 2.5 produces 11-12psi i should really see more than 7-8psi. i'll re-tighten the belt again tonight just to do it.. how did you put groves in yours? small file?
> ...


my belt is as tight as the bracket will allow. it's really tight. I wouldn't recommend doing that with a car that's daily driven. You're going to destroy your water pump pulley and also the charger bearings.

I had a buddy that works in a machine shop cut my pulley:











Noah has started cutting them as well after we talked about them at length. There's also a company that will coat your pulley with something they call carbonite:

www.carbiniteracing.com


my car pulls very hard. probably harder than some making more power than me, but I'm on standalone and my tune has just really been tweaked quite well. That being said, I started out at 208whp with this setup, then shot up to around 260, now I'm at 275.

you are using C2 software, right? I honestly wouldn't expect more than 250whp out of it, and really quite sub-par driveability. It's the reason why I went standalone.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

obdONE said:


> my belt is as tight as the bracket will allow. it's really tight. I wouldn't recommend doing that with a car that's daily driven. You're going to destroy your water pump pulley and also the charger bearings.
> 
> I had a buddy that works in a machine shop cut my pulley:
> 
> ...


i have a custom sized out belt lol.. no p/s or a/c. so i took some guesses and then worked my way to a belt where its as tight as i can pull it but i still have about about a cm+ of room for if it stretches anymore at this point. the cars gets maybe 20 miles on it a weekend..not daily driven. most it does is take a drive to shows..and weekend afternoon cruises around town.

yes to the c2 software. newest version. 

250? sounds about right for what it feels like. but with the cams and larger mani/throttle body. coolant reroutes&newsouthperformance lower mani gasket...giving me colder air and almost no heat soak..i'd think more. this is all gunna come down to the dyno on the 19th i think..


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## mk4vrjtta (Feb 3, 2007)

6vdubbin9 said:


> littlenr:
> 
> 
> i see 6psi by 4500..ish. and tops off 7 around 6500..i try to not go past that. i once did and i tipped into 8psi.


that sounds exatly like belt slip. and btw, just because you dont hear the belt slipping doesnt mean it isnt slipping :thumbup:


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

mk4vrjtta said:


> that sounds exatly like belt slip. and btw, just because you dont hear the belt slipping doesnt mean it isnt slipping :thumbup:


perhaps a better belt is in order. the duralast cheapo isnt cutting it. a local parts store here carries gates..are they worth the money? i can also see if my local autozone/advanced carries gatorbacks.

any preference on these?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

I shred gatorbacks. I won't run them now. I have a valuecraft on right now that has lasted longer than previous gatorbacks.

I would buy one of these, personally:
http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/gatk060455hd.html

Gates FleetRunner HD belts are the toughest belts on the planet. The one I linked is for a 6 rib 45.5" belt, which is what you said you are running.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

obdONE said:


> I shred gatorbacks. I won't run them now. I have a valuecraft on right now that has lasted longer than previous gatorbacks.
> 
> I would buy one of these, personally:
> http://www.discountfleetsupply.com/gatk060455hd.html
> ...




i'll def try a gates belt. 

has anyone tried the crc belt dressing? i dont wanna make a mess..but around some of the camaro and stang blower forums they say it works well just to use it in moderation.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

alright guys. bought a gates green stripe today. not to bad with the "o you work in parts too" discount lol. 25 bucks. and i got a back up belt now sittin in the trunk:thumbup:

i'll check back in after a few miles and a re-tighten over the weekend. :beer:


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

Ok.. so I got the gates belt. I've put about 150 miles on it. I saw 8psi for most of it until my trip to albany,ny.. about an hour ride each way. About half way there I got in it and only saw 6psi due to the belt finally really warming up and stretching out some. 

Up until then i saw 8 psi consistently. 

8 is fun and all but it bothers me that i should be seeing more and i'm not.. 

I've retentioned the belt since i been home but have yet to take it out again..i'm assuming i'll be back at 8psi. 

The only thing i noticed after only seeing 6psi was the belt(going from the alt to the crank) has a wobble to it. And it got me thinking if maybe i need to really wrench down on this charger. The belt has a long shot going straight from the alt to the crank..but a very short distance from the alt to the charger and the charger to the w/p isnt as far either.. i might be fooling myself here. But I'm gunna get a towel and 3ft pry bar and really crank down it..hopefully not popping a water pump pulley haha. 

Again...any more ideas would be great. Otherwise I'll check in with any new results. 

Why are cogged setups so expensive..would make this so much easier to rule out... Where do i find a dual idler?


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## BoostedTinCan (May 22, 2005)

glad to hear its somewhat working out for you, i would be afraid to tighen the belt really hard, you will wear evrything that's run on that bealt much faster, i wonder if those idler pulleys help much


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

breakin stretching



6vdubbin9 said:


> has anyone tried the crc belt dressing? i dont wanna make a mess..but around some of the camaro and stang blower forums they say it works well just to use it in moderation.


 the belt dressing def helps, spray on 20 hp


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

3ft pry bar and a towel to avoid scratching got another 2 or 3 mm further in adjustment. 

went out and up saw 8 psi..thought i saw 9 on the first pull but the gauge was shaky..only on the first pull. then it was solid up to 8 again every time.

got the belt nice and warm took it home and tightened it again while warm with the bar and cloth. bought some belt dressing. i'll check in again. so far still hitting a wall at 8psi.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

So I got the rado out today. Going to and from work. First pull was strange. got boost early as usual. held 6 up till the end and it jumped up to 9 real quick. ...This belt has got to be slipping. I've got more tension on it then ever. But i think because of the way it is routed (no a/c p/s pulleys I'm not getting the amount of tension i need). ...And strangely i feel like the autozone one slipped less.. It just stretched more.

I've lightly chiseled into the pulley creating similar "teeth" across the pulley every 1/2 inch. 
I've put belt dressing on it. Belt dressing seems to help for a day. I get no jumping but I still stop building boost at 8psi. 

Starting to wish I didn't love supercharged vrs so much and went turbo.:thumbdown:


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

6vdubbin9 said:


> Starting to wish I didn't love supercharged vrs so much and went turbo.:thumbdown:


you won't love them anymore after long... :banghead:


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

i was thinking a boost leak could cause the same problems
& increased load on the belt if it's a very big leak


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

EL DRIFTO said:


> i was thinking a boost leak could cause the same problems
> & increased load on the belt if it's a very big leak



say what?

edit..just re-read that in a better state of mind haha. i get what you mean. i'm pretty positive there are no boost leaks. everything is solid and tight. i got rid of the hose with the cracks in it. seems all good. and my vacuum is great. hangs at 19-20 at idle.


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

nevermind physics whether or not the sc has more load on it when the hose is disconnected since it's moving more mass, ever driven one with the hoses dis & can't get half the rpms b4 slip


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

EL DRIFTO said:


> nevermind physics whether or not the sc has more load on it when the hose is disconnected since it's moving more mass, ever driven one with the hoses dis & can't get half the rpms b4 slip


what hoses we talkin about here?


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

K.. well. the belt is drying. I re applied the belt dressing the right way (not on the vehicle haha) and took a little more time with the pulley teeth to make them a bit more bitey. I'm leaning towards belt slip and not boost leaks at this point.


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

So in recent discovery I found the coupler going from the hard intake to the intake on the charger(this is all pre charge) had a crack on the inside of it about a third of the way around it. Also it wasnt getting a good grip on things and the clamps kept slowly sliding off. 

It came off on me at a light the other day..I studdered into a parking lot. Wrenched the thing on there uber tight and slightly different than it had been before. ran fine. and in my haste to get home(about 3/4 of a mile) I got on it. Hit 10 psi a few hundred rpms before redline. 

So by putting it on slightly different i might have clamped over the crack & made a better connection? 

But this all being pre charge... can it still be considered a place for a boost leak? 

As of now it's all back apart and a new coupler is on its way. Took all the other ones off and double checked them. They are all ok.


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## BoostedTinCan (May 22, 2005)

Sup buddy, hows everything


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

BoostedTinCan said:


> Sup buddy, hows everything


Things are good. I replaced almost all the silicone couplers. No more leaks. Slips are to a minimal. Getting an idler pulley and that should cure it completely. I get 9-10psi *almost* every time. pulls like a beast in this cold weather too. :thumbup:


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## BoostedTinCan (May 22, 2005)

Sounds good. I wonder the hp levels hmm heh


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## 6vdubbin9 (Apr 18, 2004)

BoostedTinCan said:


> Sounds good. I wonder the hp levels hmm heh


I would loooove to get on a dyno at this point.


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