# My 16vt MS Maps (Opinions Welcome)!



## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

I finally got the car running the way i wanted and am currently waiting for my act 4 puck sprung kit to go in before i can tune properly over 100kpa. I have been using tunerstudio and its ve analyser to tune all things under 100kpa. I think i have my afr's tuned to perfection and my ignition map i think needs some work. I think i might have to turn down the sensitivity on my knock sensor as it goes off (blinks) and even stays lit when acceling hard over 100kpa- does not make sense as the map is conservative from what i have seen. It does it less but still comes (blinks) on even if i lower allow rows above 3000rpm by 3-4. 

The engine is decked and slighter higher compression then stock, running .6 bar so roughly 8.7psi. Should reach fullboost at around 160kpa max. 

Tips? Reccomendations? 

As of now the knock sensor is turned off but still blinks if detected- does not enguage. 

take a look...im going for a safe and conservative set up.

Car:
Specs:
• 1993 Cabriolet Classic
• 2.0 16v 9a (rebuilt 30,000km ago)- Full engine rebuild, incl new pistons, rebuilt cylinder head 3 angle valve job, block re-bored 1 size up (11:1)
• Precision 6031 60trim .63Ar
• Rebuilt 020 w/80% Shim Kit & Bolted Diff- TDI 5th Gearing
• 034 Motorsports 16v Turbo Header
• Lightened Flywheel w/ Stage 2 ACT
• HKS SSQV Bov
• RMR Fuel Rail
• Autotech sport cams. I+E
• Megasquirt V1-2.2. Spark and fuel. LC1 Wideband o2 sensor, for precise AFR integrated with Megasquirt.
• Aeromotive Adjustable FPR
• Precision FMIC
• Tial Wastegate (8.7psi)- Open Dump
• Neuspeed 8mm Ignition Wires
• Jegster Rad Fan+ Shroud
• CIS Fuel Pump
• Custom SS 2.5” Exhaust and DP- exit out passenger side (incomplete)
• 62lb Siemens Injectors (EVI)
• 42DraftDesign Vacuum Log Manifold


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Since the engine is higher comp should I run more retard over 100kpa.maybe drop into teens right after 100kpa?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

The biggest thing that I see is you wait till quite late in the RPM band to bring in full advance (5000 rpm). I try to bring in full advance by 3000-3500 rpm. Also if 160 kpa is your max boost having 200kpa bins is a waste. 180kpa should be plenty. Last but not least, I'm assuming you are running a distributor. How much timing drift do you have?


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

made some changes..










not tried it yet. The n/a map that was very successful on this car maxed at 20 at 100kpa across the board. this should be better with regards to knock. Timing drift? Car is set at 6btdc


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

The map above seems a bit to retarded above 80kpa, if the knock sensor goes off with that then it's def drivetrain noise or something (exhaust) is rubbing and causing false readings. I figure I'm loosing some big power with the map above..thoughts?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Stangy said:


> The map above seems a bit to retarded above 80kpa, if the knock sensor goes off with that then it's def drivetrain noise or something (exhaust) is rubbing and causing false readings. I figure I'm loosing some big power with the map above..thoughts?


Yeah almost certainly you are losing at least some power,

Concerning timing drift, take a timing light and compare actual timing (what you read on the timing light) vs commanded timing (what MS/TunerStudio says the timing is). Any difference between the two is timing drift. Or your base timing isn't set correctly.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Actual is 6btdc and Ms is set at 10btdc. Does the map looks better?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Stangy said:


> Actual is 6btdc and Ms is set at 10btdc. Does the map looks better?


Maps look ok. BUT turn on fixed timing in ignition settings, it defaults to 10*BTC, then YOU MUST ADJUST THE TIMING WITH A TIMING LIGHT SO ACTUAL TIMING (what you read on the flywheel with a timing light) MATCHES THE 10*BTC. If you don't your timing will NEVER be accurate. When done setting things turn off the fixed timing and you'll be all set.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Prof315 said:


> Maps look ok. BUT turn on fixed timing in ignition settings, it defaults to 10*BTC, then YOU MUST ADJUST THE TIMING WITH A TIMING LIGHT SO ACTUAL TIMING (what you read on the flywheel with a timing light) MATCHES THE 10*BTC. If you don't your timing will NEVER be accurate. When done setting things turn off the fixed timing and you'll be all set.



This has been done. What I did is..

Changed -10 to 6, burn. Verify with timing light that it is set to 6. Change back from 6 to -10 (use table), burn

Was done a while ago


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Stangy said:


> This has been done. What I did is..
> 
> Changed -10 to 6, burn. Verify with timing light that it is set to 6. Change back from 6 to -10 (use table), burn
> 
> Was done a while ago


Ok good. Then the only other thing I would do is check for drift. Rev to 2000rpm in neutral and check actual vs commanded. then do the same at 3000 4000 and 5000 rpm. Any differences between the two are drift. If there is none or say less than a degree...... cool you're good, if there is more than a degree check timing belt tension and the condition of the distributor.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Prof315 said:


> Ok good. Then the only other thing I would do is check for drift. Rev to 2000rpm in neutral and check actual vs commanded. then do the same at 3000 4000 and 5000 rpm. Any differences between the two are drift. If there is none or say less than a degree...... cool you're good, if there is more than a degree check timing belt tension and the condition of the distributor.


This has also been done. All is well! Just need to get this clutch in and fine tune over 100kpa. If I see knock I will retard the rows 2deg at a time until she id happy.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Stangy said:


> This has also been done. All is well! Just need to get this clutch in and fine tune over 100kpa. If I see knock I will retard the rows 2deg at a time until she id happy.


:thumbup:


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

I tried the knock sence and found it to be a waste of money and time. it is not tuned to our specific engine. it picks up other noise and goes off.....
Your ignition map is way conservitive. 
All in by 3000rpm so figure at 0rpm timing is- 8btdc and 1000rpm -12btdc 2000rpm -26btdc 3000rpm -32btdc.
I had mine set to -36btdc and found on the dyno it was to much. you will need to find this out for yourself on a dyno.
100kpa is 0 PSI. 180kpa is 12psi at that boost level i have -22btdc at 20psi -16btdc and 25psi -14btdc.
this is on pump 92octane. so you can see you are way convervitive.
Make sure your A/F is 12.2:1 above 15psi.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Repo, did you see that he is at 11:1 CR? Timing on this motor will be more critical than on other boosted motors due to this fact.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

REPOMAN said:


> I tried the knock sence and found it to be a waste of money and time. it is not tuned to our specific engine. it picks up other noise and goes off.....
> Your ignition map is way conservitive.
> All in by 3000rpm so figure at 0rpm timing is- 8btdc and 1000rpm -12btdc 2000rpm -26btdc 3000rpm -32btdc.
> I had mine set to -36btdc and found on the dyno it was to much. you will need to find this out for yourself on a dyno.
> ...


It is conservative yes. When I tune tomoro I will simple retard if knock and advance till knock. I will post my maps.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Just an fyi the n/a map made serious power under 100kpa and it only pulled 20deg across the board at 100kpa


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Alternatively...if i was smart i would simply use the n/a map under 100kpa . Which is what i will also try tommorow. :laugh:


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

Yes at 11.1:1 it will be less but only a 1-2 degrees on the base timing and under 100kpa you 
don't need to pull any timing. only in positive psi above 105kpa do you pull timing.
I have Ryan's 9A16vt pulling it down from -32 to -15 at 20psi at 12.0:1 comp ratio so he should be in that area. as for the knock sense turn the knob all the way out to the lowest sensitivty then adjust the timing while data logging then get to a dyno and 
fine tune it for MBT and watch your EGT.


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

REPOMAN said:


> Yes at 11.1:1 it will be less but only a 1-2 degrees on the base timing and under 100kpa you
> don't need to pull any timing. only in positive psi above 105kpa do you pull timing.
> I have Ryan's 9A16vt pulling it down from -32 to -15 at 20psi at 12.0:1 comp ratio so he should be in that area. as for the knock sense turn the knob all the way out to the lowest sensitivty then adjust the timing while data logging then get to a dyno and
> fine tune it for MBT and watch your EGT.


Turning down sensitivity is on the list of things to do. I am going to see how things go tommroow. First off i will load the n/a map-it hits 30deg at 90kpa then tapers to 20 at 100..from thier i will just go 17 (120)-16 (140)-15 (160)- 13 (180).


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## Stangy (Mar 16, 2007)

Made a nice safe tested map. Pull 1.5deg for ever psi to be safe. Will kept it this way until dyno! What u think?


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