# mk3 vrt guys, need to know your MPH/RPM in 5th gear



## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

Well i got my VRT running good now...However my ****in 5th gear is WACK....Tranny will go through gears fine .

02a trany/ CCM
Peloquin diff

5th gear cruising on the free way at 60 mph and 3200 rpm. 70 mph at 3500 rpms....

Bought the tranny from Bahnstormer here on vortex, he doesnt like to respond to my PM's apparently

I HATE the way this thing is driving, motor should NOT be working this hard at 60mph.


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

my 97 glx VRT all stock trans @ 60 mph is about 2800 rpms. Pretty much in 5th gear wherever the rpm needle is at the speedometer needle is roughly in the same position


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

soooo why am i so high


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## brian500 (Mar 24, 2008)

Looks like the final drive is different


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

It is most likely a .838 5th. Use a gear calculator. Put in your tire size. See if it is a 3.38 3.64 3.68 3.94 etc.


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## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

What sized tires/wheels are you running?
My old GLX was similar and I was using Corrado final drive (3.647) with a slightly undersized wheel setup (205/40/16).


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

16" on 205/40


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

1st through 4th gear


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## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

Grab a GPS and find out what rpm you are at in 5th @ 70mph.
I'm willing to bet your speedo is off and you've got a 3.647 or 3.94 final drive.

*3.38 ->* 70 @ 2975 [Golf/Jetta/Passat VR6]
*3.64/8 ->* 70 @ 3200 [Corrado G60/VR6]
*3.94 ->* 70 @ 3460 [Passat 16V/Syncro/TDI]
*4.24 ->* 70 @ 3700 [8v Corrado/Passat iirc]

Those are the potential measurements based off of your tire setup and stock transmission gearing.
If it's none of those, then your 5th has been changed out for something else.

Chances are your running a stock trans with a shorter final drive.
It's very uncommon to put in a _shorter _5th gear, whereas very common to put in a 3.64/94 final drive to give better acceleration.

Looks to me like you've got a 3.94.
If you don't like how high it is in 5th, you can easily swap out that gear for a longer one (ie: tdi 5th).


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

how would a gps tell me what rpm im at? All i got is my phone lol and the torq application.

Im thinking TDI 5th is coming up soon.

I compared it to my buddies 02a, same gears and im shorter in all gears. same tire setup


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## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

The speedo is reading wrong because your wheels are undersized.
GPS will tell you your ACTUAL speed, and you match that to your RPM.

70mph on GPS combined with your tach -> compare that to what I wrote in the above post.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

Alright used DIGIHUD on my phone app GPS. at 60 even mph car was reading 3100 RPM....on DIGI hud it was 55 mph.

at 77mph on my speedo the car was at 3900-4000rpm and at 71 mph on DIGIHUD.

So if GPS mph was right at 70mph im at 39-4k rpm in 5th gear.

Still dont sound right


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## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

Probably a 4.24 final drive.
That'd be 3700rpm @ 70, so I'd chalk up the difference to GPS inaccuracy.

Unless the guy had some stuff made, there is no other gearing for the 02A transmission that will rev that high in 5th.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

"IF" the gps is right. My wheels arent undersized if anything theyre over 70mph on my tach could be another final drive...If 4.24 is it, then this tranny is junk to me.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

found this:

here are some figures based on 3.39 (standard), 3.68, 3.94 and 4.24 crown wheels. Tyre circumference and rev limit are 17" Eagle F1s (1872mm) and 6500rpm respectively.

Bear in mind if youre into 1/4 miles, you won't pull 60 in second with the 3.68 and lower diffs without raising the rev limiter to 7000rpm.

3.39
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 24.509 MPH/1000 RPM

70MPH=2856RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 35.402 MPH
Top Speed in 2 gear = 63.123 MPH
Top Speed in 3 gear = 91.658 MPH
Top Speed in 4 gear = 129.923 MPH
Top Speed in 5 gear = 159.310 MPH

3.68
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 22.578 MPH/1000 RPM

70MPH=3100RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 32.612 MPH
Top Speed in 2 gear = 58.148 MPH
Top Speed in 3 gear = 84.435 MPH
Top Speed in 4 gear = 119.684 MPH
Top Speed in 5 gear = 146.756 MPH

3.94
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 21.088 MPH/1000 RPM

70MPH=3319RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 30.460 MPH
Top Speed in 2 gear = 54.311 MPH
Top Speed in 3 gear = 78.863 MPH
Top Speed in 4 gear = 111.786 MPH
Top Speed in 5 gear = 137.071 MPH

4.24
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Top Gear gives 19.596 MPH/1000 RPM

70MPH=3572RPM

Top Speed in 1 gear = 28.305 MPH
Top Speed in 2 gear = 50.468 MPH
Top Speed in 3 gear = 73.283 MPH
Top Speed in 4 gear = 103.877 MPH
Top Speed in 5 gear = 127.373 MPH


Also accord to VWtranxaxles, the 4th and 5th gear in a 4.24 are even shorter than the CCM transmission. So Those gears would have to be swapped with the New Final drive ect right?


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

Alright well...lets weight my options i guess:....

1. Buy another CCM trans with lsd
SEll this trans to a NA guyu
* Invest my labor and 800 bucks till i recoup funds*

2. Buy my old 02a CCM from my old motor i sold
Bring to a shop and have the lsd swapped over to my old trans, vice versa.
*Have to pay for my old trans, and then pay labor to swap lsd' over*

3. Have them tear down trans and change 4th and 5th gear with rack and pinion.
*Have to buy two gears + R & P and labor costs*

any other options im not seeing.

I DO HAVE MY OLD 02J EGF transmission laying on the floor. But i dont think i can swap these gears over...any one know?


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## 'dubber (Jun 15, 2004)

Your tires are slightly under-sized compared to 205-5O-15.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/tirecalc.php?tires=205-40r16-205-50r15


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

http://www.techtonicstuning.com/TransRatios.html
EGF has shorter gears.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

same Final drive though.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

*VERDICT: 4.24 -> 70 @ 3700 [8v Corrado/Passat iirc]

took my jeep out and the gps was spot on with my jeeps speedo, 70mp is at 3900 rpm...just gonna sell the damn thing to a NA user*


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

but for those interested. 0-70 is DEFINETELY FUN lol


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## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

bonesaw said:


> http://www.techtonicstuning.com/TransRatios.html
> EGF has shorter gears.


EGF is an 02J transmission, not an 02A.
I don't think they are compatable.



meximan said:


> *VERDICT: 4.24 -> 70 @ 3700 [8v Corrado/Passat iirc]
> took my jeep out and the gps was spot on with my jeeps speedo, 70mp is at 3900 rpm...just gonna sell the damn thing to a NA user*


Why? I doubt the 5th gear is shorter, because there aren't anything shorter than the stock VR ones.
Changing the final drive (often referred to as ring & pinion) isn't overly complicated, and it'd be far cheaper/easier to find any stock VR transmission (ideally golf/jetta) to take the parts from.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

look at CCM and CRU and the last 2 gears , im sure its not much difference but basically...

all comes down to labor costs. 

Tranny-200-300
Labor 500-600 
around 1000 in parts and labor.

or 

buy an already built 3.3 for less money than above, sell this tranny and hopefully break even.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)




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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

02a and 02j are fundamentally the same. Many parts are interchangeable. .838 is one of the shortest 5ths. Can change with a TDI 5th. You need to use the gear calc to determine your end results.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

prometheus_ said:


> The speedo is reading wrong because your wheels are undersized.
> GPS will tell you your ACTUAL speed, and you match that to your RPM.
> 
> 70mph on GPS combined with your tach -> compare that to what I wrote in the above post.



I'm not sure that actual speed is what you need to use to determine this. The vehicle speed sensor is on the tranny itself. If you were trying to decide what gears you wanted to use, then yeah tire size would certainly be a factor, but when trying to decide what you already have you should just go by the gauges themselves. If you use actual speed via gps to determine what gears you have, then by switching to a larger tire, you would have a faster speed, but the same speed on the gauges still. The problem with this method is that changing tires using this equation means you have also changed gears, which is not the case.


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## prometheus_ (Oct 6, 2009)

We were trying to determine what gearset his transmission had.

A GPS provides an accurate 3rd party speed measurement that, when combined with the engine RPM, can be compared to the calculated estimates for any transmission/wheel setup.

Tire size _is _a factor, but for this particular comparison the difference is ~3% (undersized).
The particular speed isn't relevant. I just chose 70mph because that's common highway cruising speed (where short gearing is the most annoying).


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Why does tire size need to be a factor here? Just seems like a way to make it more complicated than it needs to be. The vss is spun by the ring gear on the diff, and it was designed to keep the speedo accurate with properly sized tires on the car. So can't we just say that the speed is accurate, even if that's not the case due to tire size, for the purpose of determining what gears are in the tranny? With properly sized tires, when the speedo says 70, you are going 70, right? You can pull the tires off the car and run it on jack stands until the speedo reads 70mph, you should be at the same rpm as you would be on tires that are 3% smaller, the correct size, or 26" slicks, so long as the speedo is still reading 70 regardless of how fast you're actually going.


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## DougVRT (May 16, 2014)

My GTI VRT is about the same MPH to RPM, but I know my tires are a bit too small on my factory 15in Speedlines


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

So what are you runnin^ corrado im assumin by the speedlines?


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## 12V_VR (Aug 11, 2010)

meximan said:


> So what are you runnin^ corrado im assumin by the speedlines?


He has to be running the factory gearing that come in mk3 vr6 golf/jetta. Mine does the same thing in 5th gear mph and rpm needles are verbatim at all speeds. My vrt got over 30 mpg during my 750 mile trip to h20.


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## meximan (Jan 25, 2011)

oh you know what when i read that i was thinking he meant the same mph and RPMS as me, not the needle position haha


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