# Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced?



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

Why is an average MoTeC setup that much more expensive relative to other SEM packages? What makes these systems so much better than the competition, so that they command such premium pricing.
I guess if they all perform the same function, control fueling and ignition, what are the incremental differences that separates one system from another?
Local tuners swear by this stuff, and I wanted to make sure I am ready to shell out the big bucks when it comes time, for the right reasons. I am probably looking at their M600+ setup, so roughly at least $7k worth of stuff. 
Thanks in advance!


_Modified by pOrKcHoP bOy at 8:50 AM 1-5-2009_


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## [email protected] (Sep 8, 2008)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

For the right price, Motec will build you an ECU to control, well, just about anything. They do use a more powerful 32 bit processor than most of the competition. Some of the optional features are not the sort of thing most hobbiests will need. For example, some of the track mapping data log features, or the ability to broadcast engine data to the pit crew while the car is on the race track.
However, if you need a system to control continuously variable valve timing and a drive by wire throttle, you're going to need one of the high dollar ECUs. There are a couple others besides Motec that can control these, like the Link G4, but such features are not common.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? ([email protected])*

Thank you, do you know how the DTA S80 would stack up against a M600 or is it a hard comparison to make? 
You do make a good point, I am an enthusiast-level user, so some of the features offered won't really be necessary for me.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

The local tuner being.. Tony Palo? 
For me and SEM there are two options in my mind: go full hog and get something like Motec (installed and tuned) or completely cheap out and learn to do everything yourself with something like Megasquirt or VEMS. 
Being the cheapass, I always go with the second. However if I had a 50k motor I would probably spring for the Motec.


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## epjetta (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

i use and like the EMS stuff. its very nice and pricing is reasonable. http://www.enginemanagementsystem.com/ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (epjetta)*

id see what options you need/want. and go with what your tuner recommends.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (bonesaw)*

Tony could tune Motec in his sleep. One of the best builders/tuners in the US.
The reason Motec is so expensive is because you get alot out of Motec, and it works, very well, and has the ability to do just about anything you could ever want.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_The local tuner being.. Tony Palo? 
For me and SEM there are two options in my mind: go full hog and get something like Motec (installed and tuned) or completely cheap out and learn to do everything yourself with something like Megasquirt or VEMS. 
Being the cheapass, I always go with the second. However if I had a 50k motor I would probably spring for the Motec.

Good point Paul, didn't know your expertise lurks in here as well








And yes, either Tony Paolo or his pupil [email protected] will tune my car when that day comes arrives and I shell out the $$$ 
I have spoken with both of them about this already.








For the sake of my pockets, I wish someone would tune DTA down here in the lone star state










_Modified by pOrKcHoP bOy at 9:18 PM 1-5-2009_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

It lurks many places








If you have a tuner that you know and trust, go with their recommendations. If you're doing it yourself and starting from scratch, it's a whole other story. 
Why are you looking into DTA? That and Tec would not be on my short list. I'm pretty sure Tony doesn't like Autronic either. Doesn't leave a whole ton of options!


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (need_a_VR6)*

DTA is proven on a VRT and Bill Schimmel highly recommends the system, plus $1900 is not bad for a complete setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Why is MoTeC so much more "aggressively" priced? (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

I generally do the exact opposite of what he recommends and it's worked out for me.
If you are interested in DTA Chris killacoupe has it on his 24v, he can give you his impressions of it. Some versions can control the cam timing, some can't.
I know that the one car that I worked on that had it (Mk3 2L turbo, Schimmel built) it drove me nuts how it did the mapping with an alpha-n (tps) main map but with a pressure map 'on top of it.'


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## [email protected] (Sep 8, 2008)

I'm not all that familiar with DTA, unfortunately.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I'm not all that familiar with DTA, luckily.

I fixed it for you.


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## XXX008XXX (Mar 26, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

i have a MoTeC M600 in my R32 mk3. did i need it? no. am i glad i have it? yes. works with any sensor. no high impedence boxes or different ignitors and all that stuff. it does whatever you want. tony uses just about every option in that thing and thats probably why he has the fastest SFWD car out there today. all that data logging does the trick. air temp sensors etc. more input/outputs then any engine managment on the market period, and there tech support is second to none. if motec cant do something ( IE: DBW for your car ) then send them what they need and they write you the program. not to mention its the MOST user friendly GUI interface i have delt with. download the softare and play around with it.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Here is a slight motec gui preview
The gui by itself has alot of time into it.
http://www.germanmods.com/foru...&t=20


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_Here is a slight motec gui preview
The gui by itself has alot of time into it.
http://www.germanmods.com/foru...&t=20

Very cool, thanks for sharing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lugnuts (Jul 26, 2001)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

The high-end ecus like Motec cost what they do for several reasons:
1) Because the companies spend a great deal of money on R+D to make sure they stay the best. Manufacturing, design and support staff, marketing etc. All are necessary to be at the forefront of new products for the newest applications, etc.
2) They want people to think they are the best. If you underprice your product then it gives some the impression that your product is not as good as XXX brand's product. 

There are crappy systems, good systems, and great systems.
You have to ask yourself, what that money actually accomplishes on your project. And at what point to draw the line and not go overkill. 
Stand-alone isn't cheap, no matter which brand you go with.
You'll end up spending a lot initially, or you'll spend too little - then realize later you might have been better off with a different system.

There are many systems that have been used with VW's. Each has its own advantages and disadvantages. 
Some systems require custom trigger wheels and coil packs to work on your car. So even though the system was cheap, you then have to spend money on getting those things fabricated/purchased. 
Some systems are a pain to deal with, have crappy software that dumps all the time. Or has a hand controller that you spend 2X the time (or pay someone to) to tune all of the setpoints.
Some systems have limited functionality and capabilities. Then you have a car that does not drive like you want it to. And you might spend 3x the money and/or time trying to get it there.

Keep doing what you are doing. Ask questions of people/companies and see what kind of vibe you get from the people when you bring up comparisons to XXX product. Ask people that have experience with more than one system, often they will have insight that others do not. 
Also, what about "keeping it in the family" and having BillyT tune it?
Good luck, 
kevin


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## realpower (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (lugnuts)*

I just inherited a motec M4 system. It does look fairly easy to tune, and their is support for EVERYTHING.
Even has lambda wideband built in.


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (XXX008XXX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *XXX008XXX* »_i have a MoTeC M600 in my R32 mk3. did i need it? no. am i glad i have it? yes.

same here. did I need it, no, but I am so glad I have it. I will never out grow this standalone. it does everything. 
if you end up getting one and need some help tuning it, hit me up, I travel to Dallas every now that then.


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