# super crazy g60 tuning fun!



## Random_Task (Oct 29, 2006)

well if i knew how to upload the msq i would. anyway, setting up my g-60 hybrid machine (rv code 10:1 engine and g60 supercharger) and currently having the issue of it hitting about 2100 rpm and the revs take off with the car under no load and the map reading goes down. tuning has been difficult as my wideband (aem 30-4100) will not seem to pick up afr's unless the throttle is blipped and let off. loading up timing and ve tables to see if anybody sees something sticking out like a sore thumb. 



















aaand a pic of the car for good measure









thanks

-T


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Your timing table could use a lot of work but I don't see anything that really sticks out.

Your problem sounds more like a mechanical issue. Vacuum leak maybe?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

You have vacuum to the right source? Has to be post throttle body.


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## NightCat (Oct 1, 2011)

Hey guys, this is the guy who's been tuning this car.

Here's kinda the issue Im having, I'll have Random post up the log and maybe it'll help.

But it seems as though Im not throwing enough timing at the car, Ive reviewed several other maps for comparison just to see and a lot of other people are showing a lot higher timing.

I understand that the timing map doesnt look too great right now but all we've really done is got it to Idle under different weather conditions (hot/cold) Living in Colorado at about 6200ft elevation that was fun to get right with Warm-up Enrichment and the temperature being a nice 70* during the day and down to maybe 40* during the night and its not even winter yet.

What I was trying to do with it was try and get it ready for some street time, so I was throttling the car up and down slowly with my foot to try and at least break into those cells so we're not flying completely blind when we go and do some street pulls.

A major issue I'm having is with the AEM 31-4100...I believe that its "lying" to me without any load on the engine. Upon cold start up and idle the WBO2 will display values from 14.7-15.5 which Is perfectly acceptable for Idle under no load even on only 91 octane. The charger isnt making boost at idle and I dont see any risk to the engine happening.

I've seen a few VW guys do it, but I use the trick on Evo's alot and that's to raise the idle timing to help smooth out idle and this thing really needed it..

My concern with the WBO2 is that the vehicle is definitely smelling and running rich upon idle and I'm worried about fuel dilution of the Oil. The WBO2 is obviously only capable of reading burnt hydrocarbons and this will read full lean when it's Pig Rich.

Now if I try to get a nice healthy idle around 14-7-15.* when the engine is warm the AEM just pegs out full Lean. Now understand the vehicle has NOT moved from the garage yet...We're just trying to get it to where it wont fall on it's face on the street.

Plan on just slowly increasing RPM's and tune the driveability of the car then start going out for power.


If you just look at the map from 30kpa/700rpm over to 90kpa to about 3000rpm, Can you guys tell me how that looks? from all the examples i've looked at Im seeing much higher timing values, but this is also my First VW, and first time using TunerStudio, Ive tuned a lot of other Cars, but mostly Japanese; Honda's, Evo's, STI's, etc.

Also my fueling for the similar section doesnt even give me any WBO2 readings either, but understand that is in NOT IN GEAR with me just raising the throttle mechanically through the pedal..Im under the impression that I'm just not going to see a reading without load on the Motor but we're hopefully going to take it out to today and see if thats the case


I know it's been a novel, but if you guys do read this, I'd really appreciate some feedback.

and for example...here's a timing map from one of my Evo 8 Tunes...
(has the OE map on top for comparison. and btw Realize!! the RPM/Load Values are different..top left is low load low rpm...not like Tunerstudio)


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## NightCat (Oct 1, 2011)

Hey Everyone, after using a combination of some VW tables Ive seen and past experience Ive made a beta timing table to start with and see how it works...gonna go RPM by RPM and take it out on the street and see what Its giving us on the WBO2 and see how it responds to timing..

here's the values Im gonna try on first, Let me know how this looks,

Understand I havent touched VE Tables yet, Im waiting on WBO2 results and VE Analyze to tell me where I should go. But here's the Tables;

VE Table:









Timing Table:










AFR for VE Table 1 Target Table:









Custom AFR Target Table:









And here's the Timing Table in 3D for those who want to see the Timing Shape


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## NightCat (Oct 1, 2011)

Well....its hard to tell whats going on at this point, I added Some Accel Enrichment and it ran pretty good but then it felt like it was hitting a brick wall at 3k...and Ive felt that before when the Spark plug was getting blown out...Im not thinking its my timing values because changing them had very little effect on where the wall is hitting.


Changing the fuel made a slight difference plus or minus 400 rpm but Im not thinking it would make the car buck or feel like it was hitting a brick wall...Itll just detonate if the tune is that far off...


gonna wait for it to cool a bit and bring the spark gap in from 0.028" to 0.024" and give it another run.


warm up and idle are all fine and it feels smooth up until that point...gonna check plugs as well when we have them out and see whats going on. WBO2 is still having some issues but it does read, just its spotty...Ill get back with updates..



any advice I can get would be great.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I would get the WB situation straight before too much tuning is done. If you can't trust it to give good info, the time spend tuning is wasted time and the tune will be suspect. And I would recheck all your connections, especially at the injectors to make sure all is good.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Smells rich but wbo2 reading lean reeks of misfires. Double check gap, spark settings, etc.


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## NightCat (Oct 1, 2011)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Smells rich but wbo2 reading lean reeks of misfires. Double check gap, spark settings, etc.



Agreed...double checked gap and brought in to 0.024".

What other spark settings need to be checked? I'll post new figures off the map....


Also, car feels like its hitting a brick wall at 3K, only ever seen that before with spark blow out....ill get tables and logs up as soon as I can..

Once I get the gremlins and small things out should be smooth sailing. 


Started to get WBO2 to show at idle most times now....its strange...

Richened it up on the map and it read fine....checked the plugs and it showed lean indication but also still smells rich...


I think the cylinders are getting an uneven fuel spray, 3 of 4 plugs looked white ish....one looked normal..browning from a black when we were first firing it..


Ill get logs though and maybe one of you more VW familiar guys can point be the right way.


Anyone got any similar setups on ms?


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## NightCat (Oct 1, 2011)

Btw, anyone see something wrong with those tables posted prior to street tune?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Ve table looks wonky, top end values are really big. I dont think I have ever ended up with a map with ve over 120. Also 45 all down low is odd but tuning should fix that. 

A "brick wall" could be loss of the input signal, ms power loss, output loss etc. not just tuning. Post up an msq and a log.


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## Smokestack (Mar 24, 2007)

What's the REQ fuel look like? The fueling table looks really weird (like in way rich, especially above 3k). If you want I can swing by after work this week or this Saturday and help you guys get it sorted. Just have Theron get in touch with me.


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## NightCat (Oct 1, 2011)

Thanks Chris, I've changed quite a bit since those Maps, Ill get the MSQ up here though as soon as I get back to his place.


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