# Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine?



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

I've been reading up on these lately and I really started to wonder if it would improve the response and performance of the 24V much. Anyone installed one?
http://vividracing.securesites...d=402
I've heard really good things about this mod on various other forums (various other cars) and I started wondering whether this would improve the throttle responsiveness of the 24V.
Anyone have an opinion? HPA? Eurosport? Care to chime in and/or do some tests?


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## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

This is from before the VF:








Here's the thread with a bunch of info. Our local experience is, it doesn't work on the 1.8t but provides some benes to the VR - find out for yourself.


_Modified by RHADZ71 at 10:54 PM 2-23-2004_


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

bakersfield, this one's for you dude. An inexpensive mod that seems to have small but definite gains. 
I'm still wondering about whether it'll improve responsiveness. From all the stuff I've read, this is what people jizz over the most. Sounds compelling for the 24V
(I know, I don't even belong in this forum any more but I can't pull myself away







)


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## VDUBNDizzy (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1054918


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

this is intriguing, just finished reading the whole 13 page thread over in the 1.8T forum. Anybody try this out yet and have pics for the 24V grounding points?


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (RHADZ71)*

i was just gonna say, screw buying it, just make it yourself.
i already have been talkin to a buddy who makes custom ones for hondas, he got a few hp out of it for his rsx. doogie knows im a poor bastard but need goodies.








rhad, can you put up a picture of yours so i can see where you put the manifold and central point at?



_Modified by bakersfield_gti at 2:36 AM 1-26-2004_


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (RHADZ71)*

I thought the pics were for a 1.8T engine? yeah i knew that the dyno was done on a 24V, I just didn't want to go around strapping ground wires everywhere without having those points certain. Basically I was hoping for pics of each point to ground to, like they had for the 1.8T engine.


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_doogie knows im a poor bastard but need goodies.









Actually I meant more that you're a handy bastard who likes to mess with stuff that ain't broke, but whatever explanation works for you








I just knew you'd be on this like white on rice. (and when I say rice I don't mean your buddy's RSX)


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

i know your talking ish, but it dosent bother me for some reason.
wow, what a nice day it is.








just cuz its something to do, dont mean im always the one to do it.
i still havnt done the green temp sensor thing!
This topic was something i had been thinkin about for a while since one of my friends who makes these kits checked out my car and said i should try it to see if i got any gains like the honda fools do. If im not lazy like i always am, ill probably do it this weekend while i install my strut tower bar.


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## dc_dnb (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

perceived gains are to be had, but I haven't seen a dyno sheet to indicate anything yet and my car _still_ isn't finished (the damn money tree won't be productive again for about a month)
If you're going to try this, don't waste money on a kit. Streetwires makes some nice 0/1AWG wiring and corresponding hex screw connectors that work out well. Most people use 4 or 8 AWG. I just had a pile of 0/1 to use.
Anyways, I'd do it for the "supposed" MPG gain.... spend at MAX $40.00 on this one.


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## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (dc_dnb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dc_dnb* »_perceived gains are to be had, but I haven't seen a dyno sheet to indicate anything yet 


Did you miss the second post in this thread? Not much gain, but there is proven gain on the 24v VR6 right there.


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## dc_dnb (Jun 26, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (RHADZ71)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RHADZ71* »_Did you miss the second post in this thread? Not much gain, but there is proven gain on the 24v VR6 right there.

yeah, I can read but since I don't know the dyno, the car, the place, or the weather I wouldn't bet anything on it, which is why I said that I hadn't seen a dyno sheet to indicate that. scanned sheets don't count unless I know the above variables.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (dc_dnb)*

I read all 13 pages of that topic and i know exactly what to do now
haha took me forever to read that ish!

_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_i was just gonna say, screw buying it, just make it yourself.



_Quote, originally posted by *dc_dnb* »_
If you're going to try this, don't waste money on a kit. Streetwires makes some nice 0/1AWG wiring and corresponding hex screw connectors that work out well. Most people use 4 or 8 AWG. I just had a pile of 0/1 to use.


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## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (dc_dnb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dc_dnb* »_
yeah, I can read but since I don't know the dyno, the car, the place, or the weather I wouldn't bet anything on it, which is why I said that I hadn't seen a dyno sheet to indicate that. scanned sheets don't count unless I know the above variables.

Are you serious? ~5 WHP and ~5 TQ is what it is regardless of specifics but, whatever, here are your specifics:
DynoJet
03.5 GLI
Mesa AZ (approx 2000 ft above sea level)
100 GD degrees in the shade
91 Octane fuel
run 1 is EVO CAI and Milltek Exhaust
run 2 is with Hyper ground kit
and run 3 is in 4th gear. 
So there you go, sh!tty gas, sh!tty weather (for dyno runs) and it still shows obvious gains for a bunch of wires daisy-chained across your engine bay - not too damn bad. Anything else?


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (RHADZ71)*

dude, post a picture of your ground setup, please


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## scooter4N (Dec 15, 2003)

can someone post actual pics of VR6 24V grounding job? I was working on my and got little lost








Thanks


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## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

Here you go (5 wires 6 points of contact across the engine bay):
#1 point chassis (under the battery basically) to #2 battery neg post
#2 point battery neg post to #3 block (central point)








#3 central point to #4 standard neg ground (you'll see it down there when you look








#3 central point to #5 throttle body (that's right, three lines off the central point - make it happen)
#5 throttle body to #6 chassis (fender worked too, just test out different points if you can)








Ultimately:



















_Modified by RHADZ71 at 4:36 AM 1-27-2004_


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_i know your talking ish, but it dosent bother me for some reason.
wow, what a nice day it is.








just cuz its something to do, dont mean im always the one to do it.
i still havnt done the green temp sensor thing!

Haha you know I love ya dog








I just miss my baby a little so I'm gonna start modding vicariously through you







You seem like you have the cojones (sp?) to do just about anything.


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## scooter4N (Dec 15, 2003)

thanks


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

its all good. I give you props for not getting a lemming car like a evo or a neon.
i was checkin out the g35's at the LA auto show, it would be hard for me to miss my GTI with one of them cars.
i have the juevos but not the feds. If i had the cash id probably already have a turbo kit on the beyach. Basicaly im willing to try anything that will help performance. I have very few cosmetic mods.







<terance & philip>CHEERS!</terance & philip>
THANKS FOR THE PICS RHAD


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (RHADZ71)*

awesome, thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fojettabowit (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (salsanacho)*

I love that last pic were the supercharger is circled. I need one of those babies badly!!


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## OptimusGlen (Feb 14, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (fojettabowit)*

anyone know if this will do anything for the 12v VR6?


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (VolksportGTi)*

dosent hurt to try. just give it a go and see if it helps.
if you read, its not always a for sure thing.
you have to try it to see if it will work.


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

So bakersfield... you do it yet? Anyone?


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

i have to wait till next weekend, i didnt get paid this week.


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## awwsheeet (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

we developed a grounding kit custom measured for a vr6. in 1.8t it provides less surging and 20-30 miles per tank extra. we have the kit ready but havent brought it to the dyno yet. the 24valve mk4 kits give 5 hp and 7 tq thats at stock.....maybe more with more mods! not bad for a 100 mod.
if anyone is interested well send you a custom kit measured out for whatever car and engine you have. no universal kits and if your in LI nyc area your welcome to get a free ride in kitted cars (wrx, 1.8t and 24vavles) and if you go with a kit free installation.
hit me up if yoru interested.
kit is 100% copper oxy free automotive grade 4 gauge wire (thicker than all other brand name kits), custom measured so it looks stock. 24k connectors and 100% guarenteed to satisfy.
--eric
[email protected]


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## gef73 (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (awwsheeet)*

how much for a 24v vr6 kit?


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (gef73)*

i think he said 100 bucks.


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## awwsheeet (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

yeah its 100 shipped even if you paypal


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (awwsheeet)*

how about $30 shipped?


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## awwsheeet (May 17, 2001)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

im sorry currently the kit is for sale at 100$ its 4 guage and has 24k gold connectors. you homemade kit would be less money if you go that route but thats up to you


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## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (awwsheeet)*

Hmm well lets see some Dyno plots and someone go get a ride in that hog!!


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## oddy (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (awwsheeet)*

I'll take you up on that ride.. I live in PA but may be able to come up one day
anyone else that lives around me wanna join for the road trip?


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## gef73 (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (oddy)*

any pics of the kit?


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (awwsheeet)*

How many ground points does this $100 kit provide? 6? 12? 
$100 is a LOT of money unless you're getting like a 12 point grounding kit comprised of some NICE-ASS cables and connectors.


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## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

i bought all the stuff to do my grounding stuff. 12 feet of wire was like 32$ *i got extrea just incase id hate to have too little ya know* and all the car places were trying to sell me the connectors for like 4-5$ a piece and i was like F that, so i went to home depot and bought connectors there for 1$ a piece, ill probably do mine on saturday night or sunday whenever i decide to do it and when it warms up some...hopefully this 5hp and 7tq to the wheels thing is true that would be really sweet, and hopefully it increases gas milage also thats always a plus and the mod would pay for itself really soon. 
if anything im just expecting cleaner radio sounds and less flickeryness of the headlights and other lights, the performance and gas mileage would just be a bonus, ill let you guys know


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## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (2002gtibluvr6)*

Yeah I look forward to hearing what you get!!!


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (Strider)*

Well, I just installed the ground wires on my car. For the #1 point I just tapped off that screw in the bottom right of pic #1 because I wasn't sure what other point rhadz was referring to. Seemed ok to me, let me know if I should change it. Everything else was the same as rhads, point 4 was a PITA to get to though. After taking it for a spin, the car did feel peppier to me, I don't know if that's just because I was looking for an hp and torque gain though. I did notice the DBW lag to be reduced though, first to second was a much easier transition to make. anyways, thanks again rhadz for the instructions and to doogie for bringing this topic to my attention with his post.


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (salsanacho)*

woot!
bakersfield, come on dude, the grass is green and we're ready to play ball.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (gef73)*

made mine. took me a while cuz im lame, but its done.
im gonna go roll around right now, see how the car feels.
i made mine just like the guy that posted his 24v home made kit.
i added one from the head to the passenger side fender.
i think i need to find a better point on the head though
pics to come.
homie discount on materials.








oh, if anyone wants to know what happens when you accidently touch one of them neg wires on the posative terminal, ill be happy to let u know. its a miricle my cars running, only good thing is that i had a twitch in my left eye brow, i think the shock got rid of it. i fryed myself for a bit.
please tell me how stupid i am so i learn my lesson.








yes this post confirms that i am as stupid as u guys have been thinking.











_Modified by bakersfield_gti at 11:31 PM 2-7-2004_


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_oh, if anyone wants to know what happens when you accidently touch one of them neg wires on the posative terminal, ill be happy to let u know. its a miricle my cars running, only good thing is that i had a twitch in my left eye brow, i think the shock got rid of it. i fryed myself for a bit.
please tell me how stupid i am so i learn my lesson.








yes this post confirms that i am as stupid as u guys have been thinking.










haha, yeah someone zapped their ECU doing that. For anyone else doing this, be sure to buy some electrical tape and really cover up your + terminal, that saved me a bunch of times.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (salsanacho)*

the car felt a little more peppy but i think thats cuz i undid the battery.
ehh ill know for sure this week if its helping.


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## usfgtivr6 (Jul 29, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

Car seems to have more pep to it, and the DBW lag is decreased slightly. Another thing I noticed was that my lights don't dim nearly as much now, with a JL 500/1 in the trunk it used to dim real bad.


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (usfgtivr6)*

bakersfield
Any updates? Car feel good? Feeling any more power? 
Keep us posted


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## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

i put my kit together about a week ago, at 1st i wasnt noticing anything, and actually my lights dimmed worse then before and my gas mileage was doing bad things, and i had suspision that the screws in the fender werent a good place cause of the cosmoline and paint, that waxy crap cant be good for electric current, so i took those points off and moved then to different screws i scratched the paint off around the screw and made sure the connection was extra clean, 
turned on the car no mas dimming of the lights, my stereo sounds nicer now, feels a little peppier, but the main thing i noticed and am excited about is ive been averaging 26mpg overal, after the change ive been averaging 29.5, if thats not a reason to do this mod i dont know what is!!!


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## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (2002gtibluvr6)*

Holy poop, Hmm I belive that I will have to hit that up here..


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

yah dude, it feels more peppy, didint get to test the resistances.
i took my car outa town yesterday and it did realy good on gas milage.
had 29mpg average over hills @ 65mph. when i take off hard it feels like it did when i had my chip in. car seems to run smoother. Its pretty simple to do, and i think it helps a little.


_Quote, originally posted by *^Doogie* »_bakersfield
Any updates? Car feel good? Feeling any more power? 
Keep us posted


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

how is this increased gas milage explained, does it some how lean out the fuel or is it just b/c of more complete combustion? b/c w/ the pinging i get lord knows i dont need a leaner mixture.


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## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (Banditt007)*

the power thing is hard to tell with me, being at almost 6000 feet 5 wp at sealevel is like 1 or 2 up here so you never really feel nice jumps in power, although after driving a totally stock GTI then getting into mine there is a huge difference and i can definatly feel the difference then. but the car does accelerate smoother it used to have jumpy spots like when the DSI turned over it woudl lurch, and a few other places also, now it just kinda pulls nice and hard. lights definatly dont dim anymore im pretty convinced the 1st connection i had was a bad one on the fender itws pretty sweet now. 
i drove even extra hard today being a lil road rageous and i still averaged 29.2mpg today, and that was with another person in the car *so more weight* im definatly satisfied with what i have done
how this is achieved is kinda simple. basically in any electrical system *which a car is* there is interferences, think about the antena on a TV i know you have to think a ways back for that. but its very sensitive to other electrical imputs which can either make things better or really worse. well in a car there is so much electrical activity that there will enevitably be radiation *not that kind* given off and it will cause disturbances in the way everything works, obviously cars still work cause they have ways of coping with disturbances and well they arent like really bad disturbances but they are still there.
they include radio interference causeing not so crisp sounds, dimming of lights cause current is being drawn elsewhere, and it causes spark plugs to do funny things or causes loss of current to spark plugs slightly.
so when you ground the power it doesnt go funny places you dont want it to go, you basically are taking that excess energy that is causing interfernces and taking it away from the engine and other electrical components so they work the way they should. spark plugs get a STRONG charge not a muted one, and there is no real electrical interference so it causes the burn to be more complete/more effiecent. when you are using the gas more efficently you get more power per drop of gas i guess you can say cause its burning more completely, and also when your car is working more effiecently per drop of gas your computer tells it not to send as much, which in turn makes you use less gas, its not leaning out your fuel mixture, the computer doesnt like that, its just using the gas better.
ok sorry that was long


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (2002gtibluvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2002gtibluvr6* »_i bought all the stuff to do my grounding stuff. 12 feet of wire was like 32$ *i got extrea just incase id hate to have too little ya know* and all the car places were trying to sell me the connectors for like 4-5$ a piece and i was like F that, so i went to home depot and bought connectors there for 1$ a piece
 
So 12 feet will be enough then? Does anyone have wire lengths by any chance? This sounds like a great thing to do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 2002gtibluvr6 (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (askibum02)*

12 feet was more then enough, i had about 1 1/2-2 feet left over when i was done but oh well.
as for wire lengths i didnt measure mine, and actually your gonna get a different answer from everybody, it just depends on how much slack you want in the wires and the route your taking the wires, just figure out where you want them to go and around what *trust me its tight in there* and then measure them by hand, its really simple


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (2002gtibluvr6)*

I ordered mine today! Spent $30 on 12 ft. of 4ga. and 8 ring terminals. I'll let you all know whay i come up with. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by askibum02 at 10:16 AM 2-21-2004_


_Modified by askibum02 at 10:17 AM 2-21-2004_


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## DubGeek (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (askibum02)*

I'm gonna pick up my supplies tonight. Any specific place I should get the 4 guage wire?


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## usfgtivr6 (Jul 29, 2002)

I only used 8gauge on mine since I had it sitting around, and it seemed to do the trick


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (DubGeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubGeek* »_I'm gonna pick up my supplies tonight. Any specific place I should get the 4 guage wire? 

Any Stereo Shop will work. I paid $30 with shipping for my wire and connectors.


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## Vee-aR-6ix (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (askibum02)*

If anyone is interested, I work at an electronics store and can get 40% off of Monster cables and connectors. 
So most people went with 12' and 6 connections?


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (Vee-aR-6ix)*

I'm so jealous of you guys... I guess I just need to do this in my G now instead... 
I was gonna add that I think it would be REALLY beneficial also to run a GOOD ground all the way to the back of the car where the stereo amp is grounded too, while you're in there messing with stuff. It might clean up the stereo sound some, and also it'll give you a much better ground later on if/when you're installing that aftermarket system back there.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (gef73)*

edit


_Modified by bakersfield_gti at 12:18 PM 2-25-2004_


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## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

Hey guys,
been following this thread lately. I was very interested in the package at first. But now I see you get the same at a stereo shop?
I would need 12' of 4 gauge and 6 ring connectors right?
At the risk of sounding retarded, how do you attach the connectors to the wires? You need a special tool for that too?
Xander


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## Vee-aR-6ix (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (MD-82)*

For example, we carry Monster connectors and wires. With ours, you basically crimp the connector on and they also come with a sleeve that you put over it and heat up so that it will shrink down over the connection making it clean and pretty.








So, the more grounding points the better? Or is there a method to where the grounding points are being placed? Just trying to get a better understanding of what's going on.


_Modified by Vee-aR-6ix at 11:39 AM 2-25-2004_


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (Vee-aR-6ix)*

there is a method, but more dosent always mean better. the best way is to get a meter and test points, also the pics on the 1st page are a excelent layout.


_Modified by bakersfield_gti at 12:18 PM 2-25-2004_


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (MD-82)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MD-82* »_At the risk of sounding retarded, how do you attach the connectors to the wires? You need a special tool for that too?
Xander

nah, what I did is take an appropriately sized set of pliars and squeeze the hell out of each side of the crimping end, one side at a time. It'll basically bend and clamp down on the exposed wire. Just be sure to test it afterwards by tugging on it, i bought 16 connectors (enough for 8 sets of wires) just so I could mess up a few and not worry about running out.


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## DubGeek (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (salsanacho)*

Where's a good online shop for this stuff?


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## MyFast_1220 (Sep 5, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

Anyone else been to the dyno after this mod?


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (DubGeek)*

partsexpress.com
100-174 8 GA BLACK POWER WIRE 1' $0.53 
095-659 GOLD RING 8 GA. 3/8" 2 PAIR $1.35


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (salsanacho)*

I got mine here. I ordered on Saturday, got it today, UT to MD. Paid $30 for 12' of wire and connectors. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by askibum02 at 12:03 PM 3-11-2004_


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## AlecGTI (Aug 22, 2003)

I just used part of an 8 ga scoche stereo wiring kit from Walmart. Worked just fine and I have half the kit left. $30. I may have gained a little power, but I do notice all my electricals run better.


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## Vee-aR-6ix (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: (AlecGTI)*

I paid $24.26 on 12' 4ga Monster power cable with 5 sets of Monster connectors (good stuff.







) Putting it in as soon as I can.


_Modified by Vee-aR-6ix at 2:56 AM 3-1-2004_


----------



## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (Vee-aR-6ix)*

Ok, here's my take on this whole thing!
I bought:
10ft. of 8 gauge Monster Cable $8.00
12 Gold plated 1/4 inch connectors $6.00
8 gauge shrink tubing $1.00
The points I used were:
1. Ground under battery box
2. Ground post on battery
3. Central ground point on the block as shown in the above photos
4. Standard ground on transmission
5. Throttle body
6. Fuel rail bolt to power steering resevoir bolt.
(in the pic below, the fuel rail bolt is located on the lower right hand side of the circled SC, hidden almost completely under the intake manifold, and the power steering resevoir bolt is located just on the left hand side of the blask resevoir with the green cap.)








I drove the car about 10 miles after doing the mod, and think it's $15 well spent. The drive-by-wire lag is reduced, not as much as I was expecting, but it's still better, and the gas mileage seems to have gone up, at least according to the MFA. It's really hard to say yet if the real-time readout gains are strictly an electrical benefit, or if I will really get better mileage, so we'll have to see. The power also seems to come on much smoother and the car pulls a little harder esspecially in the higher RPMs.
All-in-All, great mod! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (Jazzy GTI)*

Crap, the pics are down!








Anyway, does anyone else have any feedback?


----------



## mahmgb (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: (Jazzy GTI)*

I want to see the pics too. Somebody please help.


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (mahmgb)*

what pics? all the pics in this topic work..


----------



## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*

They were down yesterday evening!







Glad they're back up though!


----------



## DubGeek (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (Jazzy GTI)*

I put mine in and while I didn't really notice any added pep I noticed my MFD and interior lights don't flicker when I'm at idle and my gas mileage is definitely better. I will add some more ground points when I get a chance. We'll see if it works any better.


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (DubGeek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubGeek* »_I put mine in and while I didn't really notice any added pep I noticed my MFD and interior lights don't flicker when I'm at idle and my gas mileage is definitely better. I will add some more ground points when I get a chance. We'll see if it works any better. 


This is a very interesting thread. I asked around here about this solution. The electrical engineers here are super intelligent. Their response as it's a gimmick. Adding the grounding straps won't do a thing. Of course, there are some people here who are experiencing improved drivability. I'd be truly interested in knowing if this is actually what's happening or if it's something we're just feeling. Anyone dyno the cars yet to see if it makes a difference?
Personally I somehow doubt the engineers designing the cars would not think of this. And the grounding straps used stock should do a more than adequate job. Needless to say, if it indeed does make an improvement, I'd like to give it a shot too.


----------



## muffinman (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: (Integrale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Integrale* »_
This is a very interesting thread. I asked around here about this solution. The electrical engineers here are super intelligent. Their response as it's a gimmick. Adding the grounding straps won't do a thing. Of course, there are some people here who are experiencing improved drivability. I'd be truly interested in knowing if this is actually what's happening or if it's something we're just feeling. Anyone dyno the cars yet to see if it makes a difference?
Personally I somehow doubt the engineers designing the cars would not think of this. And the grounding straps used stock should do a more than adequate job. Needless to say, if it indeed does make an improvement, I'd like to give it a shot too.

The idea is logical but I was wondering the same thing. With the lowsy gas numbers that larger cars and SUV's get (relax, Im not going there again) it is surprising that GM has not used this to squeeze an extra mile or so from its lineup. If they could just get 1 more MPG from the automatic GTO there would be no guzzler tax.


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Integrale)*

yah the first guy who did this to his 24v dynoed it and got gains, its on the first page bro... 
I think one main key is to make good grounds on the chasis, cuz there is paint and if you dont clean your points they wont conduct good and nothing is really accomplished. just an idea.


_Quote, originally posted by *Integrale* »_
Anyone dyno the cars yet to see if it makes a difference?




_Modified by bakersfield_gti at 1:46 PM 3-4-2004_


----------



## BadassVW (Oct 16, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

I can't believe this turd is still floating








Only in the PEP boyz Technical Forum http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Vee-aR-6ix (Nov 17, 2002)

*Re: (muffinman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *muffinman* »_
The idea is logical but I was wondering the same thing. With the lowsy gas numbers that larger cars and SUV's get (relax, Im not going there again) it is surprising that GM has not used this to squeeze an extra mile or so from its lineup. If they could just get 1 more MPG from the automatic GTO there would be no guzzler tax. 

I'm more inclined to think that car companies will cut any corner they can. If they can save $10/car with using lesser cables for 100000 cars, that's 
$1million saved. I'm sure there's places all over this car that is done the same. For example, in my Talon I ran a 4ga cable from my battery to my alternator. What a difference that made! Driveability and gas mileage were increased and I found feel much smoother power. Why didn't Mitsubishi do this in the first place? Because cheaper cables are, well, cheaper...


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_yah the first guy who did this to his 24v dynoed it and got gains, its on the first page bro... 


Oh yeah...I missed it. I'd like to see another independent test for repeatability.

_Quote »_
I think one main key is to make good grounds on the chasis, cuz there is paint and if you dont clean your points they wont conduct good and nothing is really accomplished. just an idea.


That's for sure. Any resistance will defeat the purpose.


----------



## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (Integrale)*

When I picked my points, I didn't use any points that were painted. It's unneccessary with all of the other exposed metal in our engine bays.
Instead of using a point on the passenger fender, like many of you are doing, connect that cable to the 10mm bolt on the left hand side of and holding down the power steering fluid resevoir. It has a black plastic piece on top of it currently holding some wiring in place. That little plastic clip just screws off, and you can then access the 10mm bolt.
The reason I picked this point is because it connects straight to the motor mount, which is bolted right to the frame-rail of the car. There was no need to remove any paint and risk causing a rusting issue in the future, and it's super easy to access.
From that point, I also tried one more thing.
I made one more small cable and connected it from that point next to the resevior to the #5 Allen bolt on the fuel-rail just below the left hand side of the intake manifold. As I stated on page 2, that bolt is just below the 2 black hoses/wires in the right section of the circle around the supercharger.
And the bolt for the power steering resevior is just on the left hand side of the black resevior with the green cap.








I honestly believe it helped in a few areas on my car.
It greatly reduced the DBW lag.
The gas mileage has increased by about 3 MPG.
And the two "flat spots" in my RPM band have pretty much disappeared!
Can't buy a better $15 mod for a NA car.


_Modified by Jazzy GTI at 4:09 AM 3-5-2004_


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## muffinman (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: (Jazzy GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jazzy GTI* »_I honestly believe it helped in a few areas on my car.
It greatly reduced the DBW lag.
The gas mileage has increased by about 3 MPG.
And the to "flat spots" in my RPM band have pretty much disappeared!
.

In other words this mod could end half the 24v posts on the vortex ?


----------



## wuznme (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (muffinman)*



muffinman said:


> In other words this mod could end half the 24v posts on the vortex ?/QUOTE]
> why is everyone down on this post/mod? it appears to have helped the VR6.


----------



## muffinman (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: (wuznme)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wuznme* »_


muffinman
In other words this mod could end half the 24v posts on the vortex ?/QUOTE said:


> why is everyone down on this post/mod? it appears to have helped the VR6.






muffinman
In other words this mod could end half the 24v posts on the vortex ?/QUOTE said:


> Although I am often guilty as charged when it come to filing wise a$$ charges, I am not being a wise a$$ here.


----------



## awwsheeet (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (Jazzy GTI)*

we just sent out like 15 vr6 grounding kits. everyone sbeen gettign good results with our electa flow kits.
ask me if you you have any questions about buying one or general grounding questions


----------



## Schwagger (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: (awwsheeet)*

I just put mine on the car today. I opted to pay the extra 20 bucks to get the best one. Makes a big difference. I noticed a smother idle and a crispier throttle response.


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Integrale)*

look Integrale, I was there for Ryans test. I watched him do his run, and then hook them up. 
Mike, you just stuck yours on, maybe you should do a dyno too? 
Anyway, like I said, manufacturers cut corners when they can. If something is OK, then they'll leave it OK. Just like the plastic window regulators, coilpacks, maf sensors, armrests, plastic water pumps, etc. 
Grounding systems have been used in cars for yeeeeeeeeeears. But believe what you will. There is plenty of proof that it works.










_Modified by Seanathan at 3:24 AM 3-7-2004_


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (Seanathan)*

Also, about the pictures. My imagestation account is gone, as my pictures







I'll be redoing the whole mode (this time my car will be the car in the pics) next week. Along with a new host.


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## awwsheeet (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (Seanathan)*

heres our 1.8t kit. we also have a 12valve and 24 valve kit. the pic is dark and the wires are hidden but it adds to the stock look. please note that the wires are now black not smoked (smoked was our limited edition first 50 run which is since sold out)
our kit is dyno tested (butt dyno) and was developed by 2 electrical engineers. our kit dare i say gives the most power and looks the most stock out of all the kits our there. we use 4 guage automotive wire (not audio, not home wire) and carries a life time wareentee. it can be purchased threw me or the website
http://www.mydubmedia.com/~awwsheeet/kit.html










_Modified by awwsheeet at 12:04 PM 3-7-2004_


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## wuznme (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (awwsheeet)*

aren't points 1 & 5 where the headlight mount goes? why would you ground with a point that has plastic invoved?


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (wuznme)*

1&5 are bolts on top of the fender about 2 inches behind the headlight mounts. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
AWWSHEET-I'm curious as to why you didn't use the point on the transmission


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## wuznme (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (askibum02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *askibum02* »_1&5 are bolts on top of the fender about 2 inches behind the headlight mounts. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
AWWSHEET-I'm curious as to why you didn't use the point on the transmission 

they are 2 inches behind the headlights, but the hard plastic housing that houses the headlight mounts to the same bolt, hence my question.


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## awwsheeet (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (askibum02)*

i drive a manual and we wanted to ground point in which there was a electrical system. theres no electrical components on the tranny and we tested using butt dynos and the coil pack gave more gains than the tranny position


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## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_oh, if anyone wants to know what happens when you accidently touch one of them neg wires on the posative terminal, ill be happy to let u know. 

i seem to remember a story about a guy who was tightening the neg terminal or something and his ring hit the pos terminal (and had contact with the wrench on the other side)... it basically melted the ring to his finger... 
i was wondering.. what size connectors did you guys use?? refering to the size of the hole where it would be bolted down...


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (2003vr6gti)*

went on a cruz down the 5 and through castaic lake to lancaster and past tehachapi to bakersfield, was about 200 mile trip in the mountains, used a little over 1/4 of a tank.
on mine i used standard amp kit terminals.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

Please excuse the dirty engine bay, we been having lots of rain here.
Also i plan on sanding down the chasis points then bolting it down and then spraying some engine paint over it to keep from rusting.
i want to find a better point for #6 on the head, its in a ghetto spot right now.
i put in my s3 bar that day too.
*point 1, neg to drivers side fender.*








*points 1 & 2 on the neg terminal*








*pint 2 to central point, point 3 to tranny neg point, point 4 to throttle body*








*point 4 to throttle body, point 5 to firewall*








*point 5 to firewall*








*point 6, head to passenger side fender.*


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## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (bakersfield_gti)*

Hey Bakersfield,
could you send me a set of those pictures to my email address but could you outline the numbers on the drawings also? I'm a little confused as to where the second and third points are on the pics..
What gauge wires and type of end terminals did you use?
Email: [email protected]


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (wuznme)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wuznme* »_
they are 2 inches behind the headlights, but the hard plastic housing that houses the headlight mounts to the same bolt, hence my question.

These are the bolts I was talking about.......


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## wuznme (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (askibum02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *askibum02* »_
These are the bolts I was talking about.......









I know,,,if you look closely, there is plastic there....Also the other spot where there are 2 bolts on the firewall have plastic involved.









No grounding points should have a plastic involved.....



_Modified by wuznme at 11:00 AM 3-8-2004_


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## MeenVR6 (Feb 24, 2004)

A better point for #6 is the fuel rail bolt to the larger power steering braket bolt. Seemed to work well for me.
-Matt


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (MeenVR6)*

makes sense, im not set on those points, i just did it for the hell of it.
ill mess with it some more when i have time.


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## Seanathan (May 1, 2002)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*

You know what I noticed today. My girlfriend 2004 Civic comes with groundwires stock.... lol. go check one out at the dealership. Very interesting.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Seanathan)*

maybe since the civic has to be very fuel efficient, they probably did it for those reasons.
my friend did a kit on one of them new evos, and it actualy picked up a 1lb of boost, and ran a hell of a lot better. so he says..


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## DubGeek (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: (wuznme)*

I still got decent connections running it to those bolts. Even with the plastic it still served as a ground point.


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (DubGeek)*

Really, the only reason I didn't use that point on the firewall is because mine are painted, and I didn't want to start stripping the paint and risk rusting later on.


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## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (MeenVR6)*

i am making one of these kits.. somewhere i read where a wire was connected to the ecu chassis...
can anyone tell me where this is located...?


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## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (2003vr6gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2003vr6gti* »_i am making one of these kits.. somewhere i read where a wire was connected to the ecu chassis...
can anyone tell me where this is located...?

Behind the plastic cowl where your wipers are located, it's underneath the wiper connection point for the passneger side wiper...Seems like a hard connection to make??? I don't know, maybe not...


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## wuznme (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (RHADZ71)*

shouldn't be too hard to make, could router the same path the harness takes thru the tunnel..
wonder if it would make any difference..


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (wuznme)*

last fillup, i got 320 miles.
did some mountain drivin on that tank of gas, drove pretty hard too.


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*

Finally put my kit in yesterday. My initial impression is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . The engine runs smoother, DBW lag is reduced, and my lights don't dim when I stop at lights. Not sure of any real gain hp wise, just feels a whole lot smmother. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mitsui-g (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_last fillup, i got 320 miles.
did some mountain drivin on that tank of gas, drove pretty hard too.


I'm looking forward to installing my kit, can't wait to see if gas mileage will improve. As of now I'm getting between 575-600km/tank( appr.350-370miles) and my average speed on highways and back roads approx. 80-90miles/hr. Hopefully this mod will turn my 24V into a TDI in terms of gas mileage














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usfgtivr6 (Jul 29, 2002)

FYI my dealer was giving me a hard time about my grounding kit when I took my car in. It might be a good idea to remove it if you take your car in for warranty work to aviod a sea of bullsh*t.


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## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (usfgtivr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *usfgtivr6* »_FYI my dealer was giving me a hard time about my grounding kit when I took my car in. It might be a good idea to remove it if you take your car in for warranty work to aviod a sea of bullsh*t.

I was thinking about that issue...that's why if I were to do it, I'd use the quick release style eye hooks and captive screws where possible.


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## muffinman (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: (mitsui-g)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mitsui-g* »_
I'm looking forward to installing my kit, can't wait to see if gas mileage will improve. As of now I'm getting between 575-600km/tank( appr.350-370miles) and my average speed on highways and back roads approx. 80-90miles/hr. Hopefully this mod will turn my 24V into a TDI in terms of gas mileage















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

How the hell do you guys get this many miles out of a tank? All Mark IV tanks are the same size right? The only time i ever got close to 350-370 was straight highway drivin' in June doing 65 MPH. Are you running bicycle tires on your car and turning the engine off on down hill and stop signs? Are you shifting into 6th from 1 st gear? I really do not understand. My average combined highway and city is always 285 MPH per tank, and thats almost running on fumes. I have even changed my coolant sensor, got rid of the some dead spots but mileage did not change. 
So again, how do you get 350-370 miles per tank and see speeds of 80-90 MPH?


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## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (muffinman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *muffinman* »_
How the hell do you guys get this many miles out of a tank? All Mark IV tanks are the same size right? The only time i ever got close to 350-370 was straight highway drivin' in June doing 65 MPH. Are you running bicycle tires on your car and turning the engine off on down hill and stop signs? Are you shifting into 6th from 1 st gear? I really do not understand. My average combined highway and city is always 285 MPH per tank, and thats almost running on fumes. I have even changed my coolant sensor, got rid of the some dead spots but mileage did not change. 
So again, how do you get 350-370 miles per tank and see speeds of 80-90 MPH? 

The new ground wires produce fuel at a rate of 5 gallons/hour. The fuel is returned through engine block via osmosis and feeds directly into the injectors but is monitored to flow at 3 gallons/hour. This way, you always have a +2 gallon/hour surplus of fuel flow. And because the gearbox is now grounded better as well, the oil particles are charged and flow more easily thus causing less friction. The efficiency increase to about 95% percent...only a 5% loss in tranmission power transfer...
Amazing stuff.


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## muffinman (Feb 24, 2003)

*Re: (Integrale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Integrale* »_
The new ground wires produce fuel at a rate of 5 gallons/hour. The fuel is returned through engine block via osmosis and feeds directly into the injectors but is monitored to flow at 3 gallons/hour. This way, you always have a +2 gallon/hour surplus of fuel flow. And because the gearbox is now grounded better as well, the oil particles are charged and flow more easily thus causing less friction. The efficiency increase to about 95% percent...only a 5% loss in transmission power transfer...
Amazing stuff.

...and the 375 miles a tank is before the new grounding wires, after they are installed at a conservative 2 extra miles per gallon that would be 400 miles per tank on a vr6 with combined city and hwy. That is almost 33% better gas mileage then my average tank. Maybe the problem is the conversion. Are we talking imperial gallons or US gallons?


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## My My GTI (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: (muffinman)*

Well, I'm trying this on my barely month old GTI (home built kit). Hopefully it will fix what you guys mentioned, like the headlight dimming and DBW lag. Would love the extra MPG since I do live in California. Couple n00b questions. I'm doing basically what bakersfield_gti did (And I guess kinda like how RHAD did it too I guess) cept point #6 since he said he didn't like that point (and it looked like RHAD didn't do that either). Should I make a point from the firewall (point #5) to anything else? Or should that be my stopping point?
Btw, I can't seem to find the point #1 you guy's mentioned on the fender. Maybe i'm blind or something. I'm just going to attach it to the point on the driver's side fender (like Bakerfield's point #6 from head to passenger side fender). That's alright right? And again, sorry for the ultra-n00b questions


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## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (My My GTI)*

points i used.. daisy chained in this order (7 points, 6 wires)
1. passenger fender
2. power steering reservoir bracket (this may be a little redundant.. i wated to connect it to the head somehow, but i couldnt find a place)
3. throttle body
4. engine block (b/w throttle body and standard ground)
5. standard ground
6. neg battery terminal
7. driver side fender
i used 4AWG wire w/ gold plated connectors.. 
i had originally bought like 13' of wire and i had about 1-1/2' left over


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## My My GTI (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: (2003vr6gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2003vr6gti* »_points i used.. daisy chained in this order (7 points, 6 wires)
1. passenger fender
2. power steering reservoir bracket (this may be a little redundant.. i wated to connect it to the head somehow, but i couldnt find a place)
3. throttle body
4. engine block (b/w throttle body and standard ground)
5. standard ground
6. neg battery terminal
7. driver side fender
i used 4AWG wire w/ gold plated connectors.. 
i had originally bought like 13' of wire and i had about 1-1/2' left over
If I did firewall to Powersteering reservoir bracket ( gotta find out where that is but I got a pretty good idea) should I make another point to that to Passenger side fender? Or is that what you were referring to when you said redundant


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## My My GTI (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: (My My GTI)*

I just finished the grounding up- Fender to Neg, Neg to Central Point, Central to tranny neg point and throttle body, throttle body to Firewall (I may add another to Power steering bracket like someone mentioned). Took it for a quick spin around the block (may open it up in the back roads today) and HOLY CRAP. I don't know if this is just the power of suggestion but DAMN my GTI has just got funner to drive. I thought it was just me babying it since its new, not putting enough umph on the gas to make it go (from standstill). Oh baby does it feel peppy (to quote others).
I hope this gets a sticky cause this mod kicks ass!
Now let's hope my MPG improves








P.S. I'm a complete car mechnical n00b and this was soooo easy.


_Modified by My My GTI at 1:28 AM 3-14-2004_


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## mitsui-g (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: (muffinman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *muffinman* »_
and the 375 miles a tank is before the new grounding wires, after they are installed at a conservative 2 extra miles per gallon that would be 400 miles per tank on a vr6 with combined city and hwy. That is almost 33% better gas mileage then my average tank. Maybe the problem is the conversion. Are we talking imperial gallons or US gallons?

I've always got between 500-550km on a full tank of gas. Last week went to the dealer and they changed my MAF, since then I've been getting around 600km/tank. Just put in an ITG drop-in filter, the grounding kit should be done by this weekend and I will be changing from Platinum spark plugs to copper plugs. All these new changes I hope will help increase gas mileage even more!


----------



## wuznme (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (mitsui-g)*

The #1 spot is under the battery tray, you will need to remove the battery and tray to reach it.


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## My My GTI (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: (wuznme)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wuznme* »_The #1 spot is under the battery tray, you will need to remove the battery and tray to reach it.
Ah, damn. Any chance the fender position (like Bakerfield's #6 point but on driver's side) is good enough. Probably end up removing it anyways since I'm uber-paranoid.


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## wuznme (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (My My GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *My My GTI* »_Ah, damn. Any chance the fender position (like Bakerfield's #6 point but on driver's side) is good enough. Probably end up removing it anyways since I'm uber-paranoid.

I don't like any of the fender grounds...read a page or so back and you will see why


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## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (My My GTI)*

If you scrape the paint off the right under the terminal, you will be fine as far as grounding. If you are worried about rust, you can spray a little primer and touch up paint over it.


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## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (My My GTI)*

when i said it was redundant, i meant that it grounds to the body right there... then it goes to the fender, which is another ground to the body...
i dont know if its necessary, but i had some extra wire and extra terminals.. i figure what the hell..


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## GLIguy (Nov 3, 1999)

*Re: (2003vr6gti)*

I know an electrical engineer and a VW friend that have developed a kit for the 24v and 1.8T. The kit they are putting together for the 24V includes 4 gauge wires with gold terminals and all necessary hardware for the install. It is a five wire kit that will have 3 engine grounds, a throttle-body ground, and an extra body ground, from what I understand. They are going to use my car as the test mule







I know he installed a kit on a 1.8T already with good results. I watched him install it and it was easy and took about 10 minutes. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slammedvwgolf (Feb 16, 2004)

*i have a problem...*

i relocated my battery and dont know what to do now...
what would u guys suggest i do since i relocated my battery...i relocated it to the trunk and ran 1 gauge wire to the fron and connected it to the alternator...then i drilled a hole in my trunk and grounded the battery...i then grounded the other things to one of the bolts holding the battery tray up front...(i sanded the paint good connections) but now i dont know how im gonna make a ground kit the way u guys suggest...nothin will be directly to the battery...it will be directly to the chassis to which the battery is grounded...will this make a difference...nobody in the whole thread brought this up...i wanna do this mod but i wanna make sure it will be as efficent as the other guys here with the battery under the hood....what do u guys think i should do for grounding? is i worth it...??
i am talking about new ground wires to ground my engine, tranny, etc. prob will use 4 gauge wire just wanna know how im going to go about doing this since my battery is now in my trunk..
plz help a dubber out...


----------



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

Man it sounds like this mod is a real hit... I OWN!


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (^Doogie)*

I moved the ground from the fire wall to up through the wire harnes and under the rain shield and to the ground by the ecu, and i cleaned up the grounds on the fenders and it made a diffrence.


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re:*

Is there any particular reason as to why there should be so many wires going to so many different points? Why not have two or three #2 gauge wires coming from the negative terminal to a couple of points on the engine block or transmission itself? 
Just curious as I'm not an electrical engineer.


----------



## siuson2 (Feb 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Integrale)*

gotta be watching this post.


----------



## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Integrale)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Integrale* »_Is there any particular reason as to why there should be so many wires going to so many different points? Why not have two or three #2 gauge wires coming from the negative terminal to a couple of points on the engine block or transmission itself? 
Just curious as I'm not an electrical engineer.

Don't have to be an EE; the "daisy chain" of links just lets you run the circuit, essentially, all the way across the engine bay to clean up as much of the ground as possible. Just running a couple of wires from the neg terminal to the block doesn't buy you any new points of contact for your circuit - there's already a ground from the neg post to the block (look at some of the pics posted in here and you'll see the neg ground near the bottom of the block...) and as you can see from the thread, there is improvement to be had over that.


----------



## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

To Vee-aR-6ix,
you see I don't live in the states, but I'm a pilot, so the times I do get a layover, I need to know exactly where I'm going. That's why I'm asking you if you can tell me where you bought those Monster cables and connectors. I've searched their website and all I see are kits, and wires with specific plugs already attached. No basic 4 gauge wires. Over to Best Buy I went and they also only carry kits or specific wires. Can you help me out otherwise with the Monster part numbers if you have any?



_Modified by MD-82 at 5:10 AM 3-31-2004_


----------



## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (MD-82)*

Alright,
did what I should have done. Keep looking around. For now I think I'll order from parts express. Now this question has not been answered yet. Which is better, 4 gauge or 8 gauge?
Or if no one know which one is better in this situation, what is the 4 made for and what is the 8 made for. My feeling is that 8 gauge is better because this is only grounding current we are talking about, no high current. So I beleive the 8 gauge is better because it has less internal resistance due to it being thinner








And that the 4 gauge is a little overkill for the grounding and the extra resistance will cancel some of the benefits.
Feel free to contradict my thoery, cuz I sure am no electrician.
Xander


----------



## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (MD-82)*

Not on topic but MD-82, I hit your town on a cruise in 2002, and I loved it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Back to your regularly scheduled programming...


----------



## the kevin (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (MD-82)*

thinner wire = more resistance
imagine the wire like an electron "pipe".. it's easier to push an equal amount of water through a thicker pipe, hence, less resistance..
i got my wire (4AWG) from circuit city in the car audio dept. i also bought the terminals from there and best buy (neither place seemed to have 6 pairs)... the dude just looked at me funny when i asked for 3 sets of 4 gauge terminals...
for more info on wires check this out:
http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/wire.htm


_Modified by 2003vr6gti at 1:28 AM 3-31-2004_


----------



## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (MD-82)*

8 gauge is fine, these wires won't be running anywhere near the current needed to see any difference between 4 and 8 gauge. you're basically providing a nice smooth ground plane for the digital systems, nothing more. 4 gauge is actually thicker than 8 gauge, hence its higher cost. it would be better for high power applications, but for this use it's overkill. just buy the 8 gauge high temp wire from parts express and you'll be fine.


----------



## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

*Re: (salsanacho..........and RHAD)*

RHAD, glad you liked it.
It's the one of the busiest and biggest ports in the world. It goes in nearly half the island. I think only Rotterdam's port and 1 or 2 other ones are larger. 
Salsanacho,
I think I'll be going 8 gauge then. You see, I'm no electrician. I thought, that because 4 gauge has more metal that it would also have more internal resistance. So the grounding current is small enough so as not to be restricted by 8 gauge. Good enough for me.
Thanks!


----------



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: (MD-82)*

Guys,
After just having done this on my G. I can tell you I found great cable at Ultimate Electronics. They sell this stuff (I bought 4awg, they also sell 8 and 0/1) by the foot. I think I bought like 15 feet, cost me around $40. Then I bought the o-terminals and the shrink piping to tidy up the ends at Home Depot. Home Depot doesn't have anything bigger than 4AWG for connectors. At least, they didn't at mine.
Other places locally you might want to get this stuff is like cartoys or tweeter. Radio shack doesn't have this type of stuff.
For the connectors, you can get 24k gold ones for like $4 for 4 or do what I did and buy good, solid copper ones from Home Depot for $0.99 each. I also bought some uber-crimpers from Home Depot for around $13. Overall, for 6 wires using 12 connectors, shrink tubing, and 15 feet of 4AWG cable, including crimpers that I'll inevitably use again, I paid a total of right at $70 including tax.
Money well spent. Although--- i'm not noticing immediate MPG improvements like my G peers or you guys have. I think I may need to relocate one of the cables. 
Incidentally, was anyone else surprised just how assy the whole car is grounded? My G in particular had a single 8-guage copper wire coming from the negative terminal to a painted point on the body. And that was all. GROSS.
Good luck all!



_Modified by ^Doogie at 1:15 PM 4-1-2004_


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (^Doogie)*

went on a trip this past weekend to the beach, for a while there the miles per tank was reading 405 miles on a full tank


----------



## siuson2 (Feb 7, 2003)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*

does any of you have a full DIY somewhere that i can look at?
email addy is [email protected]
would love to do this,
please help me out. greatly appreciated!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_went on a trip this past weekend to the beach, for a while there the miles per tank was reading 405 miles on a full tank

Bakersfield, 
I usually get about 405-410 miles everytime I fill up. The best I ever got was 440 miles...I was already doing 32mpg on the freeway and whe I filled up it was registering 440. I'm hoping after I do the mod, it'll be even better.


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Integrale)*

wow thats a lot, but i have never topped off my car, so maybe i could get more gas in there. When i hit 405, i was drafting behind a few big cars.


----------



## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*

You guys must be doing a lot of cruise-control freeway driving, or I have to call BS. There's no other way you're getting 400 miles from a tank in a VR, let alone a 24V VR.


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_wow thats a lot, but i have never topped off my car, so maybe i could get more gas in there. When i hit 405, i was drafting behind a few big cars.

Yeah I was rather surprised too....but this engine is very efficient when used in it's proper envelope. It can sipp fuel if you drive right...except in the city...it's just too damned heavy to be efficient around town.
I tell ya...if this car weight around 2700 lbs, it'd not only be a rocket, it'd be a miser on fuel too.


----------



## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (Integrale)*

What speeds are you cruising at on the highways? LA is the land of crowded freeways so I'm surprised you see enough empty road to get 400 miles per tank. I just put synthetic oil in and am now getting around 300 per tank. before i was getting 270.


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (salsanacho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *salsanacho* »_What speeds are you cruising at on the highways? LA is the land of crowded freeways so I'm surprised you see enough empty road to get 400 miles per tank. I just put synthetic oil in and am now getting around 300 per tank. before i was getting 270.

I don't get 410+ miles regularly...only when I get highway time when, for example, going to the central coast or the to Camarillo or something like that. In general however, I get around 370-380 miles per tank...
I like to cruise between 70-75 mph. I am rather light on the pedal in town however, so that could be helpful. I don't use synthetic...I use multiblend.


----------



## omeezy (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: (Integrale)*

woow I wish I could get that gas mpg.


----------



## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (omeezy)*

damn you guys are getting some sick Milage. I average 280....


----------



## awwsheeet (May 17, 2001)

*Re: (Strider)*

the wiring kit i sell gives you 30-40 extra miles pertank


----------



## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (Strider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Strider* »_damn you guys are getting some sick Milage. I average 280....

Ahh, someone telling the truth - sweet. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Integrale (Aug 1, 1999)

*Re: (RHADZ71)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RHADZ71* »_
Ahh, someone telling the truth - sweet. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Uhh...sorry that you don't get the mileage I get.


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Integrale)*

all my high numbers are long highway or freeway drives.
around town it goes fast. but i mash it in town so ohh well.
i have noticed good mileage on highway since i did the ground wires.


----------



## 1st v-dub (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: (RHADZ71)*

average about 300 during all city driving. On a recent trip from Pittsburgh to DC, 480 miles round trip, I made 360 actual miles and some of those were starting in city rush hour. I have seen it climb to 405 on the display while cruising at 75 - 80 mph.
chris


----------



## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (1st v-dub)*

I gotta say thtat my mileage has increased somewhat since I did the grounding kit, but no where near some of you guys. I average about 260 miles in city driving with a heavy foot. On a recent trip from DC to Harrisburg, I made it there and back on one tank of gas. It was a total of about 350 miles. My speeds are a little higher even on the highway though. I ususally set my cruise around 85 or so. I do need to try get a little better ground on two of my points and we'll see what happens. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (askibum02)*

the ground by the ecu is a good one to try.


----------



## GLIguy (Nov 3, 1999)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*

I am getting a kit that a fellow Vortexer, JettaManDan, designed installed on my GLI tomorrow at a GTG in Annapolis MD. JettaManDan's kit has already been installed on another guys GLI and the guy says it makes a big difference in throttle response and feels a bit more power. Anyway, after I get the kit installed this weekend I'll convey my impressions.
The cool thing is that this kit I am getting requires no drilling and is only $45. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (GLIguy)*

Where in Annapolis? I might come up if that's alright. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GLIguy (Nov 3, 1999)

*Re: (askibum02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *askibum02* »_Where in Annapolis? I might come up if that's alright. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

It is going to be at Sandy Point State Park. Here is the thread organizing the gtg:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1252611


----------



## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (GLIguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLIguy* »_I am getting a kit that a fellow Vortexer, JettaManDan, designed installed on my GLI tomorrow at a GTG in Annapolis MD. JettaManDan's kit has already been installed on another guys GLI and the guy says it makes a big difference in throttle response and feels a bit more power. Anyway, after I get the kit installed this weekend I'll convey my impressions.
The cool thing is that this kit I am getting requires no drilling and is only $45. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

what points does this kit use? same ones everyone else is using?


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (salsanacho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *salsanacho* »_
what points does this kit use? same ones everyone else is using?

figure i will speak up now that GLIguy has talked about me







yes and no....i have a friend who is an electrical engineer who consulted with me on the kit I designed for my friends car - and we came up with the fact that there are no uses for ground wires to the passenger side of the engine..and no clean way to ground the ECU...so i came up wth a very simple setup for the 24V - an extra point to the body - 2 extra points on the head/valve cover - and one to the throttle body..that is it...all extra wires beyond that make the install look messy and are pretty much useless....the install takes all of 5-10 minutes..and the stock engine cover and battery cover still fit....so it's a very stealth install as well - he reported an immediate difference in how the car felt....smoother - starting better - and possible gas mileage - GLIguy is a friend of mine as well with a 24V -and after hearing the reports from my 1st installation..wanted me to make one for him....so i did - plus an extra with the supplies i had....i made one for my 1.8T plus another friends 1.8T with similar results - (more wires though) better mileage - smoother startup and running - and maybe even more power...having access to the proper tools to make these has been terrific....all are 4 gauge heat resistant wires and gold terminals...
Dan


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

i havnt drilled anything and the wires dont get in the way of anything.


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_i havnt drilled anything and the wires dont get in the way of anything.


not saying anyone has too - just got that question a few times....if drilling was required....my spare 24v kit i made is up on ebay if anyone is interested - the link is in my Sig...


----------



## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

yah, some people are making this a little more complicated than it should be. Its fairly simple.

_Quote, originally posted by *JettaManDan* »_
not saying anyone has too - just got that question a few times....if drilling was required....my spare 24v kit i made is up on ebay if anyone is interested - the link is in my Sig...


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_yah, some people are making this a little more complicated than it should be. Its fairly simple.


yep - very...and i just patterned a 12v kit today - 3 wires are all that is nesessary for that....


----------



## GLIguy (Nov 3, 1999)

*Re: (GLIguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLIguy* »_Anyway, after I get the kit installed this weekend I'll convey my impressions.

Ok, I got JettaManDan's kit installed on Saturday. I could definitly tell a difference. Everthing was just smoother, the throttle response is better and even down shifting was nicer, no more stumbling. Accelerating was smoother and felt a bit more power. Here are some pics of the kit. (The wires are kind of hard to see, but they are the lighter black, almost a bit brown.)
























It is a great kit, and it is hard to tell that it is even there. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by GLIguy at 8:39 AM 4-5-2004_


----------



## ChinaTownCBC (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (GLIguy)*

Do you guys think this mod will void the warranty? Very tempting to do this as a summer project.


----------



## omeezy (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: (ChinaTownCBC)*

doubt it, what harm could the dealer say it does??


----------



## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (omeezy)*

My dealer asked me what all those wires were for, I explained what changes people here have been seeing. His wife just got a GLI so he seemed interested in doing the same on hers.


----------



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: (salsanacho)*

Shoulda said "Those are for carrying the 1.21 gigawatts to the flux capacitor"


----------



## VeeDubLuv (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (GLIguy)*

that's a nice looking install http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i ordered my wires last week and (hopefully) will be doing this myself sometime this week.
i have a question: where does the wire that is tucked into the engine cover run to? the transmission?
it looks great...and sssstealth...which is the only way to go!


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (VeeDubLuv)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VeeDubLuv* »_that's a nice looking install http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i ordered my wires last week and (hopefully) will be doing this myself sometime this week.
i have a question: where does the wire that is tucked into the engine cover run to? the transmission?
it looks great...and sssstealth...which is the only way to go!


it's a secret! nope - no tranny ground - there is a large ground on the tranny... stock... that is hard to see - no point in that....just look around and you will see good grounds....or get a kit from me!








Dan


----------



## VeeDubLuv (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

*sigh*
alright...i guess i'll have to figure it out for myself. i already spent the money for the DIY approach...dont want to spend another 45 bucks for your kit. sorry man.
but no worries, you need to protect your product so you can make a buck or two right? i respect that.


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## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (VeeDubLuv)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VeeDubLuv* »_*sigh*
alright...i guess i'll have to figure it out for myself. i already spent the money for the DIY approach...dont want to spend another 45 bucks for your kit. sorry man.
but no worries, you need to protect your product so you can make a buck or two right? i respect that.









Go back and look at the pics I posted in this thread. There is dyno proof that configuration works. None of these other guys have dyno proof yet, so go with what's proven (not saying it won't, or that it won't be better, but they're doing butt dynos that don't mean anything). When someone comes back with better results from their config, we'll all change







Everyone has their theories, you may just have to go at it on your own and see what works for your car.


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (VeeDubLuv)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VeeDubLuv* »_*sigh*
alright...i guess i'll have to figure it out for myself. i already spent the money for the DIY approach...dont want to spend another 45 bucks for your kit. sorry man.
but no worries, you need to protect your product so you can make a buck or two right? i respect that.









IM is on the way.....


----------



## '97Trek2.0 (Jun 21, 2001)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

I just read this whole post for the first time and damn that took forever. I think I am a true believer now and will be buying the materials soon.


----------



## VeeDubLuv (Sep 13, 2002)

*Re: (RHADZ71)*

when i get it installed on my car i will, for sure, add my comments. 
it should be today!!








cant wait!


----------



## GrayGli (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: (VeeDubLuv)*

How's it going guys, i have an 03 gli with a GIAC chip, and a neuspeed P-Flo, does anyone else have these mods or similar and have done the ground kit, and what did you notice. Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks


----------



## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (GrayGli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GrayGli* »_How's it going guys, i have an 03 gli with a GIAC chip, and a neuspeed P-Flo, does anyone else have these mods or similar and have done the ground kit, and what did you notice. Any input would be appreciated.
Thanks

'Sup man?! Most of us have similar mods (plus others potentially) so you'll see plenty of examples of people with Chip, CAI, and exhaust usually and their results. For your ride, you'll just have to see on your own http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GrayGli (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: (RHADZ71)*

Hey thanks man, yea i guess i'll just have to see, and i don't want to step on anyone's toes yet, but has anyone proven that the 4 wires from jettaman is better than the 6 wires that rhad uses?? Thanks again


----------



## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (GrayGli)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GrayGli* »_Hey thanks man, yea i guess i'll just have to see, and i don't want to step on anyone's toes yet, but has anyone proven that the 4 wires from jettaman is better than the 6 wires that rhad uses?? Thanks again

You're not stepping on anyone's toes. Until other dynos get posted up, mine is the only set-up with proof. Still waiting for others to post up. 
Not saying mine's the best (since I bought it anyway - I don't have any vested interest in it's success) but there is no other proof yet on the wires or the various configurations. People are making educated guesses on results but have yet to get it on paper.


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (RHADZ71)*

i never have or ever will claim dyno #'s....i'm not in competition with anyone...just offered a simple clean effective kit to some peeps that know who i am and know i don't talk trash....and made out of good materials....with an electrical engineer buddy of mine approving of my points....if you take a very good look at the engine - you will see that more than 4 or 5 points is worthless pretty much....i have several very satisfied friends and a few custom kit peeps, who have all felt a difference - if one of them wants to go to a dyno - they are welcome too - i have not asked.....and don't really care....i claim no hard # improvements..i just know the cars run smoother..and seem to start easier....my own car included.....
Dan


----------



## mahmgb (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

I have one of JettaManDan's kits. I can feel a noticeable difference. Shifting through the gears felt smoother and it actually felt like I had a little bit more usable low-end torque. Like previously stated, startup seems easier and, all around, the engine generally just feels smoother.
Afterall, the throttle body is mounted to plastic, so the only ground it gets from the factory is the small gauge wire in it's connector.
I am more than satisified with this kit. As for the dyno plots, you guys probably won't see any from me either. My VF supercharger is soon to be installed and dynos after that wouldn't be fair.








Mike


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## RHADZ71 (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaManDan* »_...if you take a very good look at the engine - you will see that more than 4 or 5 points is worthless pretty much....

I'm going to make one more comment and then let it go.
I'm not in competition with anyone either. However, you CAN'T say it's useless to have more than 4 or 5 points until you prove it. I had more than four points and you've seen my numbers. Until someone (doesn't have to be Dan - ANYONE) comes back and shows distinct proof that you only need 4 points and that different configurations work just as well as the ones I used you are only guessing.
So for the sake of dubbers everywhere, someone else PLEASE run a dyno. Otherwise, we'll never know if one set of wires is better than another or one configuration better than another - OR - if they're all equal.
Thanks all!


----------



## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (mahmgb)*

The shifter felt smoother? How is that possible?


----------



## askibum02 (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (Strider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Strider* »_The shifter felt smoother? How is that possible?

I believe he was refering to the _shifting_. The grounding kit reduces some of the DBW lag, making the transition from one gear to the next more smooth. 1-2 has the most notable change.


----------



## mahmgb (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: (askibum02)*


_Quote, originally posted by *askibum02* »_
I believe he was refering to the _shifting_. The grounding kit reduces some of the DBW lag, making the transition from one gear to the next more smooth. 1-2 has the most notable change.


Yes, I was referring to the shifting, hence why I said shifting instead of "the shifter felt smoother". Thank you for the elaboration on my statement. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (mahmgb)*

Ok thats what I thought just wanted to clearify! Cool!! Did you get some more milage???


----------



## mahmgb (Feb 4, 2003)

*Re: (Strider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Strider* »_Ok thats what I thought just wanted to clearify! Cool!! Did you get some more milage???

I'm pretty sure a grounding kit would help you get better gas mileage, but I don't put enough mileage on my car to know for sure.


----------



## GLIguy (Nov 3, 1999)

*Re: (mahmgb)*

I totally agree with mahmgb. As I said earlier, I have JettaManDan's kit on my GLI as well, and I have found the same improvements that Mike (mahmgb) described. It is so worth the little money it costs and the ease inwhich to install it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## FigureFive (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Made my own this weekend*

I used 8 gauge Monster cable and gold plated connectors.
I followed the same pattern as the RHAD except that instead of going to the firewall I went to a bolt you can see under the wiper fluid reservoir. Seemed to provide better metal contact there without having to scrape any paint.
I've got little electricl/mechanical experience, so maybe this isn't a good spot. Chime in if you know better.
In the first few days of running this I can say it did seem to help the 1st-2nd shift lag. I'll follow up at the end of the week after I've run through a full tank of gas. I've never gotten better than 22 mpg and it's usually around 19 'cause of my lead foot.
The rest of the engine is bone stock.
*EDIT* I measured out all the wires myself, and ended up using only about 8-9 ft. Is there a need to specifically measure out the wires to provide the right amount of electrical flow or anything like that? I basically made the connections as direct as possible utlising stock tubes and wires to tie down to for neatness.


_Modified by FigureFive at 11:57 AM 4-12-2004_


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (FigureFive)*


_Quote, originally posted by *FigureFive* »_I used 8 gauge Monster cable and gold plated connectors.
I followed the same pattern as the RHAD except that instead of going to the firewall I went to a bolt you can see under the wiper fluid reservoir. Seemed to provide better metal contact there without having to scrape any paint.
I've got little electricl/mechanical experience, so maybe this isn't a good spot. Chime in if you know better.
In the first few days of running this I can say it did seem to help the 1st-2nd shift lag. I'll follow up at the end of the week after I've run through a full tank of gas. I've never gotten better than 22 mpg and it's usually around 19 'cause of my lead foot.
The rest of the engine is bone stock.
*EDIT* I measured out all the wires myself, and ended up using only about 8-9 ft. Is there a need to specifically measure out the wires to provide the right amount of electrical flow or anything like that? I basically made the connections as direct as possible utlising stock tubes and wires to tie down to for neatness.

_Modified by FigureFive at 11:57 AM 4-12-2004_

8-9 feet?!







woah!..that is way over kill! any metal spot is good..the length of the wire doesn't matter much becasue you are not carrying current...just creating a stable gound field....


----------



## FigureFive (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (JettaManDan)*

That's just a guess. I had read the earlier posts from people saying they bought 12' of cable and had 1 or 2 left over. I bought 15' or cable and used about half of it. Other people seemed to have used more than I did, so it made me wonder.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (FigureFive)*

6 or 8 gauge is not a good idea for safety reasons.
If it melts, it is not a thin link such as 10gauge. When 10gauge shorts it melts and dissappears, 6 & 8 gauge stays hot for a while and burns longer, creating a fire hazard instead of a few melted wires.
As far as current, aside from the large ground from the - battery terminal, to the gearbox/frame, 10 gauge is way fine to create low resistance better than factory ground paths.
I just did this with oil & gas resistant 21 cent per foot wire from home depot to a 96 cabrio automatic. It solved the crazy shifting problems, and poor idle/drivability issues the car had. 
Even after cleaning the factory grounds, the resistance between ground points and - terminal dropped from .8 with clean factory grounds to .1-.2 everywhere I could touch, and that was with 4 wires.
VW uses lots of component grounds, such as alternator bracket to block, etc.
As the car ages and things corrode between gaskets, etc. it loses it's ability to ground.
My old 2000 1.8T 4 door golf had problems grounding and dimming lights with the windows being used after 10 thousand miles and 2 months of age here in rainy wet and moist maryland.
YMMV, but this mod should be done to EVERY car that uses component grounds, and is not a hand built roadster.


----------



## oldspice (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (gdoggmoney)*

what are the chances of my wires shorting and starting a fire cuz thats not cool


----------



## mitsui-g (Jul 23, 2003)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (oldspice)*

Installed my home made kit this past weekend. Shortly afterward I went down to Montreal for Easter weekend. On my way back I decided to test how much gas mileage had improved. I was able to get 500km of hwy driving at minimum 140km/hr and many, many long stretches at 160km(I would say half the trip was done at that speed). Then I was still able to get an additional 100km of city driving for a grand total of 600km out of a full tank















Throttle response is great, even if there isn't any HP increase, I'm more than happy with the additional gas mileage







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I wonder how much more mileage I could get out of full tank if I was to drive the speed limit or 120km/hr


----------



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (gdoggmoney)*

gdogg you just walked into the thread and took a big smelly turd in the middle of the floor dude.
8 guage wire is a great idea. 4-gauge is even better. Wires melting! Pffft! If you've got that much current going through a 10-guage wire to melt it, chances are you don't want to be hitting 88mph because you just might wind up in 1955 while the doc's busy getting blasted by the Libyans.
...There's always one.


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (^Doogie)*









As jettamandan said: "8-9 feet?! woah!..that is way over kill! any metal spot is good..the length of the wire doesn't matter much becasue you are not carrying current...just creating a stable gound field...."
"you are not carrying current...just creating a stable gound field...."
Length of wire matters some, it has more resistance, electrons only flow far enough to bump their neighbors along. Too long of wires daisy chained creates more impedance and resistance.
That is what we are doing. Lowering resistance..... and in some cases, grounding things that you would not considere grounded really because of the high impedance.
Can you please explain to me why 8 gauge and 4 gauge are even better than 10 gauge?
I'd like to hear why.
What we are trying to do is eliminate tiny amounts of resistance and voltage drop....etc. the slightest amount of voltage drop or resistance can cause havoc on very precise sensors, O2, knock, etc. etc. Ever driven a car with really bad grounds? Such as an 88 or so 16v VW? The car seems great but never runs to it's full potential, i've seen motors wrecked from bad knock that went undetected due to knock sensor resistance.
Component grounded items generally have more resistance because corrosion due to heat cycling and weather/water/etc. gets inbetween component grounded parts quick since they are not sealed with any type of sealant. Anyone with a 1996 2.0l aba OBDII car that has not cleaned the ground plate on the front of the block behind the alternator will know what I mean. Every car I have seen needs this ground point cleaned well, and even then it still has too much resistance between battery - and itself. 
ECU's calculate things based on signals in the form of voltage etc.
And yes, you can call pfft to wires melting, but until it happens to you, you probably won't understand. In case you did not read my post, 10 gauge being thinner will melt and disappear quicker than 4 or 8 gauge which being thicker and holding more heat, will burn longer and wind up causing a major engine fire as the heat transfers and then things start to catch. You don't think your ground wires would skin and a nice hot wire somewhere would skin creating a short, but it happens, can happen, and it is probabilities.
I got 20$ toward a dyno run on the original car in this thread with 10 gauge grounding wires.
I also have 5$ that says the results will be the same.








We are not powering speaker amplifiers or carrying mucho current to a starter motor here....... understand yet?
There is always one, check yo self fool


----------



## MeenVR6 (Feb 24, 2004)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (gdoggmoney)*

everyone is an expert


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (MeenVR6)*

becasue this is not carrying current - there really is no need for huge gauge wire....mine are 4 gauge becuuse i got a deal on a huge amount of it, and that is what the market seems to demand..and it looks cool....8 gauge is sufficient...if you do this correctly - none of the wires should be carrying current..that is not the function of this....the pure idea is to let all the censors in the car have a clean signal...with a good signal they can all react faster - and allow the engine to run better and adapt to different conditions....the wire i use is heat resistant...chemical resistant..and is multi-strand oxygen free....i have had a kit on my 1.8T for a few weeks now - sitting right on top of the valve cover - and as anyone who owns one or sees one - 1.8T gets brutally hot...so far the wire has not melted....or anything...so if it can stand up to that..then it can work well on a 24v







if the points are done right - there is no possibility of a fire or anything like that.....i picked my points carefully, and with the help of an electrical engineer...so i have never worried that there would ever be problems...
Dan


----------



## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (JettaManDan)*

been reading the thread. very interesting mod. i'm not an electrical engineer, but i deal with some electrical code (mostly dealing with streetlighting.) the grounding kit sounds very much like bonding in our industry. we create a low impedence path for the current to return to the source in case of a ground fault (instead of it finding some other path like through your body if you touch something metal.) also, bonding all the metal makes the system electrically neutral (no voltage potential.)
as far as #4, #8, #10 goes, i don't think it matters much for the short distances you're running. for what it's worth, the #10 is rated for 60amps. we only upsize it if we experience voltage drop due to line loss because of distance and load. sounds like whatever you do (#4-#10) to add to the stock grounding system will be far superior.
but i do know that with audio systems, the minimal rating and the preferred are two different things when you step into the 'monster system' arena. i'm not sure i detected a whole lot of difference running #10 to my amps versus running #4 (we're only talking 200w of power here.) but it made me feel better since that's what all the 'audiophiles' say to do. i don't know how sensitive our cars are to that sort of thing, but if it helps you sleep better at nights, spring for the #4 (they look cooler.) but for pure functionality, i can't see any reason why the #10 won't work just as well. i think it's more important to make good metal-to-metal contact at each connection point than the actual conductor size.


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: Made my own this weekend (JettaManDan)*

I'm not saying your kit is bad at all, I'm sure it's fine








What i'm saying is that 10 gauge is adequate, can be had cheap, and if it shorts and catches it will go up quicker and be out quicker than 4 or 8.
Look at the size of the majority of your sensor wires.
More of a tip for the people who want to spend a couple hours with a multimeter and some wires, I prefer to do everything to my car myself when I can, except machine work, opening up the motor for extended periods, and body/paint since that requires clean areas.
That combined with the goal, of simply creating clean ground paths for each sensor etc, I think the 10 gauge approach is adequate and a little safer, but i'm always open to better ideas. Sensors and other things use ground, DBW systems apparently component ground at the throttle body, which is why people are seeing gains in throttle response from a good ground path.
Go over your current flow diagrams and you can see this stuff.
The reason that your starter and amps need massive wire is because they are basically huge power trunks that carry a lot of current. 
To all the haters making comments








There is nothing wrong with doing something cheaper, and achieving the same results, with a little more margin of safety.

I think everyone here really needs to chill and drink a















/* Edit */ Doh, double typed a thought!
_Modified by gdoggmoney at 10:12 PM 4-14-2004_


_Modified by gdoggmoney at 10:22 PM 4-14-2004_


----------



## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (RHADZ71)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RHADZ71* »_
I'm going to make one more comment and then let it go.
I'm not in competition with anyone either. However, you CAN'T say it's useless to have more than 4 or 5 points until you prove it. I had more than four points and you've seen my numbers. Until someone (doesn't have to be Dan - ANYONE) comes back and shows distinct proof that you only need 4 points and that different configurations work just as well as the ones I used you are only guessing.
So for the sake of dubbers everywhere, someone else PLEASE run a dyno. Otherwise, we'll never know if one set of wires is better than another or one configuration better than another - OR - if they're all equal.
Thanks all!









I think each car is going to be different, I drive a MK3 12v 1st year GLX, so it's got screwy wiring to begin with, it also has 230k miles, and the few connectors/terminals i've touched have been blue with corrosion. Some cars have the O2 ground on the rear motor mount if I remember right.
In my case, I can almost write off most of the component grounds as having too much impedance.
I am going to do this to my jetta tonight, when I fix the secondary air injection short.
With the crazy amount of electronics the MKIV has, i'm sure there is some merit to more points, especially if resistance between the battery - terminal and certain points where ground is supposed to flow drops.
In my case, I can almost write off most of the component grounds as having too much impedance.

Results to come, and resistance values to come.


----------



## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*

GDOGG, 4 and 8 are good because they look PIMP.
....My point was... nothing from this engine is gonna melt #10 wire. If it does, then you may as well close your eyes and start praying because chances are your engine bay is about to explode.
yes #10 will do JUST fine. but the original post I was referring to was just a bunch of scare... nothing's gonna catch fire here and you just needn't have said anything.
The bigger the wire, the lower the resistance per foot across it, that's all there is to it. If you don't want big, don't go big. the difference for this application between 10AWG and 4AWG I'm sure is negligible, but YES there is a difference.
...And NO, nothing is going to catch fire.







THAT's the part I had a problem with.


_Modified by ^Doogie at 4:51 PM 4-14-2004_


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (^Doogie)*

yes - 10 gauge - 8 gauge - whatever is totally sufficient - but the shorter the run and the larger tha gauge there is a difference....and as stated above..4 gauge is what people like....and *gdoggmoney* one of the best kits i have done is a 12v kit....the person had nothing to say but good things about how his car ran after installing my ground kit..MK3'S do need help








Dan


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

*Re: (^Doogie)*

Sure, things won't catch fire when a nice significant short happens......

Anyways, looking pimp is cool








But I live as form following function


----------



## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (gdoggmoney)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gdoggmoney* »_Sure, things won't catch fire when a nice significant short happens......

Anyways, looking pimp is cool








But I live as form following function

















i make sure a short won't happen by not only including nice boots over the ends of the wire - but i hardcore heatshrink the ends under the boots..so no stray wire starand can touch anything


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## 2ndTimesACharm (May 28, 2002)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

I just installed JettaManDan's 24v kit yesterday. I can tell you, I love it. The throttle response is amazingly smoother, the car feels smoother in general. The butt dyno doens't feel all that much, but it is hard to explain the engine just feels like it is running better. it feels silky smooth through the pull and I did a test 0-60 with my friends watch b4 and after, and with our crude timing I got a .15 fast according to him. All in all, for 45 bucks, it really changes the feel of the engine for the better. Thanks jettamandan!


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (2ndTimesACharm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2ndTimesACharm* »_I just installed JettaManDan's 24v kit yesterday. I can tell you, I love it. The throttle response is amazingly smoother, the car feels smoother in general. The butt dyno doens't feel all that much, but it is hard to explain the engine just feels like it is running better. it feels silky smooth through the pull and I did a test 0-60 with my friends watch b4 and after, and with our crude timing I got a .15 fast according to him. All in all, for 45 bucks, it really changes the feel of the engine for the better. Thanks jettamandan!

glad you like it..i make *NO* claims....but everyone has said their cars run better..


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## My My GTI (Feb 28, 2004)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaManDan* »_glad you like it..i make *NO* claims....but everyone has said their cars run better..








Damn man, why couldn't you have released yours awhile ago! Might've bought it








Anyways, since some people have had this on for awhile anyone try different points and get better results?


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (My My GTI)*

sorry bro


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## FigureFive (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: Follow Up*

So...I've been running my DIY kit for about 2 weeks. The throttle seems much more responsive, seems to want to rev up quicker than before. The DBW lag is greatly reduced. I got 22MPG on my first tank, all city driving with mostly conservative acceleration and shift points. Now I'm driving more agressively with my second tank of gas to see if there's any difference from stock there







.


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## Nessal (Nov 24, 2002)

Does it matter if you use gold plated ends or not?


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## siuson2 (Feb 7, 2003)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaManDan* »_sorry bro









Dan, thanks for the fast shipment! 
Got kit, installed, havent driven yet.
Will report here once i have done so.


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (siuson2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *siuson2* »_
Dan, thanks for the fast shipment! 
Got kit, installed, havent driven yet.
Will report here once i have done so.









my pleasure...


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## MD-82 (Aug 22, 2002)

Hey Dan,
I may have a US adress after all. When I know for sure I'll drop you another PM.
Xander


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## Astralplane (Mar 14, 2003)

*Re: (MD-82)*

Did anyone notice that hyperground cables are a factory option on the new Lancer Evolution?
Thay offer several other nice options as well.
They seem like they are trying to head off the aftermarket biz at the path.


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## siuson2 (Feb 7, 2003)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

driven the car for a lilo bit today, car pulls "slightly" harder, or so it seemed that way... (maybe its cuz of me jus washed my car real good







) anyhow, throttle response a quicker that i would say for sure. dont know about gas mileage yet, jus driven for 10 miles.















Dan's grounding kit would be a good buy, the quality and material used are top notch, with colored pictures instructions.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Astralplane)*

my friend did that to an evo here way before they added that option.
The car picked up 1lb of boost and ran wayy better.

_Quote, originally posted by *Astralplane* »_Did anyone notice that hyperground cables are a factory option on the new Lancer Evolution?
Thay offer several other nice options as well.
They seem like they are trying to head off the aftermarket biz at the path.


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## PSUice944 (Dec 8, 2003)

Just did a little grounding kit on mine the other day. My $.02 says that it's worth the measly $20 to do it. No need for the huge cables as this ins't carrying any realy current, and I bet the very best "gound" to help is all on the throttle body.
I made sure I soldered my connections for some longevity and I believe I used 8 or 10 guage.
Throttle response is good, less lag, even noticable when at speed the moter "steps up" a bit quicker.
We shall see on the gas mileage here in a week or so! I'd be elated if my normal driving can take me a bit beyond 300 mi/tank now!


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## PSUice944 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: (PSUice944)*

And apologies for my crappy spelling! WTF!


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (siuson2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *siuson2* »_driven the car for a lilo bit today, car pulls "slightly" harder, or so it seemed that way... (maybe its cuz of me jus washed my car real good







) anyhow, throttle response a quicker that i would say for sure. dont know about gas mileage yet, jus driven for 10 miles.















Dan's grounding kit would be a good buy, the quality and material used are top notch, with colored pictures instructions.









thanks.....i try hard to make it easy to install..glad you like it....


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## eustts (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

I am an electrical engineer too, and I agree that by grounding that we are trying to create a equal ground plane for all the electrical components in the car. Ground connections can corrode and or become weak electrically over time.
Experiened in building cabling in several applications, I would consider that 4,8, or 10 AWG would be sufficient.
As for the proper points to ground, testing to find the best ones would be rather easy.


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (eustts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eustts* »_I am an electrical engineer too, and I agree that by grounding that we are trying to create a equal ground plane for all the electrical components in the car. Ground connections can corrode and or become weak electrically over time.
As for the proper points to ground, testing to find the best ones would be rather easy.










already done


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## Dicardo (Dec 14, 2003)

*Re: (JettaManDan)*

I know this post is old, but I thought I'd throw a question in anyways. I understand the concept of the grounding kit, and I understand wire choice (pimp factor), but I'm not clear on what is being grounded. I understand that specifically the throttle body is being targeted...what else? There must be 1/2 dozen or more pumps, motors, generators, etc. in the engine bay, but only some are being added to.
Is the concept to assist the existing system at large or are there several targeted components (other than the DBW throttle body)?
Thanks in advance for the feedback...if there is any.


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## Pocket Empty (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: (Dicardo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dicardo* »_
Thanks in advance for the feedback...if there is any.









I don't think you really need to go crazy on it and start adding wires all over the place. The major key points are grounded. I think at least.


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (Pocket Empty)*

with my setup - I hit the T-Body..a body point - and 2 other points on the head..the idea is to create a stable ground field for the sensors....do you need to have 20 wires? no....but everything else electrical on the negine adds signals that can casue the sensors to not get a clean signal and adjust the car to run right...the 24v peeps i have made kits for have said they have felt a immediate difference...the ground kit just cleans up the signals to the whole motor....


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## SilverV6inMD (Jun 22, 2002)

Ordered my kit last week, installed it monday and I must agree with everyone else! DBW seems a lot more responsive as does the car, in general. definitely no more flickering/pulsing headlights. The car just feels "better"... IMHO, the best add-on under $50 ive done! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (SilverV6inMD)*

went on a trip to vegas this past weekend.
average was 27mpg @ 80-100mph
went 330 miles on the trip meter before i had to fill up, and i wasnt driving like a granny.


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## Strider (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bakersfield_gti* »_
average was 27mpg @ 80-100mph






























I'll take it!!!!


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (Strider)*

take what? 
the mpg?
i made my own kit. FYI


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## traffic (Sep 23, 2003)

*Re: (bakersfield_gti)*

hm, 80mph = 25.5mpg for me. i think it's just the gearing.


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## bakersfield_gti (Jul 13, 2002)

*Re: (traffic)*

we should have the same tranny..










_Quote, originally posted by *traffic* »_hm, 80mph = 25.5mpg for me. i think it's just the gearing.


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## CortezTheKiller (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (2002gtibluvr6)*

On any electrical system the term "ground" refers to the lowest voltage level in the system. There is no absolute zero electrical voltage, and a cars electrical system ground might actually be at some positive voltage as compared to the actual (dirt) ground.
Also, all the ground points in the car are not at the same electrical potential. Some might be higher than the battery terminal negative post, which is the reference in your car system.
Any ground point that is higher ( inelectrical potential, not in altitude)than the battery terminal negative post potential will wield a lower-than-12-VDC electrical signal, which will underpower anything coming off it.
All a grounding kit does it to create more of a normalized ground level for all the electrical points on the car, and get them all close as possible to the battery negative post level.
This maximizes the electrical "power" off all your electrical load items like lights and radios and things, and gives them their best opportunity to work at their rated horsepower.
Installing a grounding kit MIGHT yield some power increases if there were a variation among components or ground points in the cars ground status before installation, and if the installer gets it right, AND if some power-related component gets something closer to its optimum 12 VDC source power as a result of kit installation. 3 big "ifs".


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## VWanimal (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (CortezTheKiller)*

i have a 4grounding.com kit on my 1.8T and it works great..told my buddy to get one for his 24v..and he got one..and he was really surprised at the difference....we even disconnected it to see..and sure enough the throttle response was a bit more choppy without it on.....he thinks it is worth it.....plus we looked and the intake mani is plastic..and the t-body isn't grounded well.....not an issue anymore......
Ed


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## banggooooo (Jun 13, 2003)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (VWanimal)*

This thread should be in the DIY section somewhere.


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## CheapSk8 (Jun 15, 2004)

Quick question regarding wire. At BestBuy we sell(I work at BB) a Rockford Fosgate amp wiring kit. Looking at 8 guage, depending on cost if my employee cost is lower than or close to that of HomeDepot wire, would the wire work? It is a 17' pack of 4 guage wrapped copper wire and if it is cheap enough I was thinking about using it but if there is better for the cost (will know cost Sunday) I will go with the other. 
Just curious.


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## salsanacho (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (CheapSk8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CheapSk8* »_Quick question regarding wire. At BestBuy we sell(I work at BB) a Rockford Fosgate amp wiring kit. Looking at 8 guage, depending on cost if my employee cost is lower than or close to that of HomeDepot wire, would the wire work? It is a 17' pack of 4 guage wrapped copper wire and if it is cheap enough I was thinking about using it but if there is better for the cost (will know cost Sunday) I will go with the other. 
Just curious.

That should work just fine, heck even 8 gauge is overkill for this application. I wouldn't go higher than 8 though just for mechanical robustness. the only thing I'd be concerned about is its heat tolerance, but if it's for a car wiring kit it usually has high tolerance, you'd have to check though. For this application, don't worry so much about the type of wire that you use, just make sure you crimp the connectors well and that it's secure enough to withstand the all the vibrations.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (salsanacho)*

This is where I got mine from http://www.4grounding.com/ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
It's kinda hard to say if you gained anything with grounding kit....kinda same as with Intake







but it looks cool


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## CheapSk8 (Jun 15, 2004)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*

Bringing this thread back to life.
Any ideas on some 12v points? Nice ones for the 24v and I may try using some of those like the power steering bracket instead of the pass. fender. I made my kit and only used 4 wires right now but I have enough left over wire to make a couple more if need be. 
I couldn't seem to find any points on the 12v people could agree on like you do with the 24v. I have a bat. neg. to the driver fender but wanted to relocate that too if I could to a better place. If you have any good ideas for points that I should check or try please post for me, pics involved. If you need pics of what I have right now I can provide them.
TY
_Edit: Oh yah, thanks for the feedback on my wire question. 17' of red 8guage wire plus an extra 3 feet of brown 8guage wire, spare terminals in the pack = $13 + packs of gold connector pairs, each pair $1 = $17 total for my own kit. _


_Modified by CheapSk8 at 5:44 PM 11-23-2004_


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## ^Doogie (Sep 12, 2002)

*Re: (CheapSk8)*

I still rock.


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## CheapSk8 (Jun 15, 2004)

One last bump before I give up on this thread. /\


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## siuson2 (Feb 7, 2003)

*Re: (CheapSk8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CheapSk8* »_One last bump before I give up on this thread. /\

man, took me a while to dig up this thread.
Keep this alive, cuz i think i have a lose ground somewhere


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## engine101 (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: (siuson2)*

I appreciate all the data gathered from those super sensitive butt-o-meters out there measuring acceleration rates, gas mileage, and TB response, but i spent several years going to this place generally referred to as "SCHOOL" where we learned the "Scientific Method". This thread reads like the ad on the side of a bottle of Snake-Oil Elixir Tonic from the 1800's.







--- "Just $.25 and you can cure everything from the common cold to old age!"
I'm no EE, but i'm just going to throw some things out there. Couldn't someone use a voltmeter to measure the positive voltage(leaking voltage?) of say the TB before installing a ground system, and then measure the same point after install to give some solid numbers to this theory. Or couldnt' someone use the all-mighty VAG to take some reading during a run before and after installs? If grounding is supposed to improve sensor readings, wouldn't VAG show this?
I'm obviously not the only one here who would like more hard facts. I want this to work as much as everyone else.


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## vr6PhiL (Jan 9, 2005)

i have a 12v vr6, and ill try this. and get back atcha


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

I've known about this mod for a very long time thanks to caraudio.com
If you go to caraudio.com and start talking about caps you will quickly be told about upgrading the BIG THREE lol.
Anyway, this will fix a lot of problems with aftermarket stereo systems making your lights dim and things of that nature. FAR better than a cap will.
So, in short, I believe it works for all electrical systems in the vehicle. From lights to engine components.


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## reflex24v (Dec 24, 2004)

*Re: (kungfoojesus)*

I made my own kit and installed it tonight. Cost me $20. I can honestly say that second gear acceleration improved and throttle feels alot smoother then before. Biggest thing I noticed is that I can now get 93.1. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







So weather it "works" or not i noticed those two things.


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## FastFoward (Dec 2, 2003)

*Re: (reflex24v)*

i have on my car and i havent really noticed anything really.


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## dubdubberson (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (FastFoward)*

gonna try this this weekend


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## vwaddicct07 (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: (dubdubberson)*

Nice job bringing 2004 back http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## WingsR4Planes (Jan 8, 2008)

*Re: (vwaddicct07)*

well... since somebody brought it back from the dead, i might as well comment that i installed one on my car a few weeks back and have noticed a bit better throttle response and whether bc of the kit or not, my mpg has increased as well.


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## 24ValveGLI (Mar 20, 2005)

do you have any pictures of your installed kit Wingsr4planes?


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## dubdubberson (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (vwaddicct07)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwaddicct07* »_Nice job bringing 2004 back http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









nice job being a Doche http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VReihen6 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: (24ValveGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *24ValveGLI* »_do you have any pictures of your installed kit Wingsr4planes?

here is my kit installed...


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## WingsR4Planes (Jan 8, 2008)

*Re: (24ValveGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *24ValveGLI* »_do you have any pictures of your installed kit Wingsr4planes?

Not yet but I'll go take some tomorrow and post them up tomorrow night. I had meant to take pics when i was putting it on...


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## dubdubberson (May 31, 2004)

*Re: (VReihen6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VReihen6* »_
here is my kit installed...









almost the same car as me... is that a GLI? why did you relocate the factory battery to the trunk?


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## IceColdJones (Jul 17, 2007)

I have a copy of the instructions from 4grounding.com for the 24V VR6 if anyone wants them to create their own kit!! Same thing for the R32 as far as I know...


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## a8wpg (Oct 17, 2004)

*Re: (IceColdJones)*

Yeah, please could you email them to me. Pm'd ya my email addy!!


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## DuB_MaNG (Apr 26, 2007)

*FV-QR*

oooh yes! can i see the diagram? i have a about 15feet of 8gauge cable and a buncha taps that i was gonna make a kit with except i dont know what lenths to cut lol....


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## swaVR6 (Nov 3, 2008)

*grounding kit fixed my hard throttle hesitation*

Well, I found this OLD thread while searching for a fix for the slight hesitation I was having between 2500 and 3500 rpms under heavy throttle. I decided to go ahead and give the grounding fix a try since I already had the 8 gauge wire.
I ran six wires based on the earlier posts in this thread and have since put about 200 city and highway miles on the car. I'll admit I was somewhat skeptical of prior results but I was shocked with my actual results:
- the slight hesitation during hard acceleration is completely gone
- the off idle DBW lag is gone (also have GIAC programming which also helps a lot)
- throttle is very smooth and responsive
- idle is very smooth
- engaging the clutch from a dead stop is much smoother due to better throttle response
- the jury is still out on the mileage improvements since I've had my foot on the pedal a lot to check for the hesitation problem I was having.
For a $20 investment in wire & connectors, this simple upgrade is a must. Thanks to all who have provided input to this thread!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: grounding kit fixed my hard throttle hesitation (swaVR6)*

Can somebody post up some new pics of their grounding set up. Id like to do this and i have a ton of 4ga wire lying around but i need a better idea of what it looks like and all the old pics are down.


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## umop 3p!sdn (Apr 2, 2009)

*Re: grounding kit fixed my hard throttle hesitation (limastock)*

x2
is it much different for a 2000 12v VR6?


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## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: grounding kit fixed my hard throttle hesitation (umop 3p!sdn)*

im also interested in doing this to my 2004 24v, but as read in the early pages of this thread alot of guys were saying that the DBW lag was reduced. but i do not have a DBW set up so how will the results differ in my set up??


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: grounding kit fixed my hard throttle hesitation (GTI 20th AE #1421)*

All 24V are DBW unless you specifically set it up as otherwise (requires major retuning if not a standalone engine management setup).


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## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: grounding kit fixed my hard throttle hesitation (apstguy)*

hmm then i must be confused as to what DBW mean i always thought of it as an actual throttle cable hooked up to the throttle body. guess i was mistaken.


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

DBW=Drive By Wire aka electronic throttle control
DBC=Drive By Cable aka cable controlled throttle valve
____ By Wire means electronically controlled. Mercedes Benz had drive by wire brakes on some of their last gen cars which I find a bit scary. They were apparently very hard to modulate and a bit like and on off switch.


_Modified by apstguy at 3:00 PM 4-15-2009_


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## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: (apstguy)*

interesting, thanks for the clarification. now as many have asked before where are the grounding points. the early pages dont show the grounding points. any help??


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

These are the most common:
Main ground under battery
Throttle Body
ECU
Coilpack ground (I'm not sure where it is)
Block
Passenger side frame rail


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## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: (apstguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *apstguy* »_These are the most common:
Main ground under battery
Throttle Body
ECU
Coilpack ground (I'm not sure where it is)
Block
Passenger side frame rail

are there any pic on how to do it? there must be someone with a how to on here.


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (GTI 20th AE #1421)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI 20th AE #1421* »_are there any pic on how to do it? there must be someone with a how to on here.

x2


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

I haven't ever seen a diagram or pictures of anything but a ground wire for the 24V VR6. Whenever I get around to doing mine I'll get pics, but it will probably be this before I get to it.


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## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: (apstguy)*

Golf, Jetta, R32, 24V VR6 Wire Kit Install Instructions
Tools Needed
10 mm Socket and Ratchet (Deep socket recommended)
5 mm Allen key
1. Remove Battery Box – There is a circular tab on each side of the battery box you press in with your fingers – you then pull the box straight up and set aside.
2. Remove Engine Cover – Grab it on the left and right side and pull straight up..It should pop off – set aside.
3. Locate the 2nd shortest wire in the kit – it should be about 1 foot long….
4. On the Driver side fender – closest to the front of the car is a 10mm/Torx bolt…..remove with a 10mm socket. It is recommended to clean the area around the bolt after you remove it because this area seems to accumulate dirt easily.
5. Take the 2nd shortest wire – put the bolt through one terminal end and install back onto the car. Make sure the wire is extended towards the battery.
6. Look at the battery – the Negative terminal of the battery should have an extra unused post on it (the negative terminal is on the right side of the battery) Take the other end of the wire you just connected to the fender and slide the other end over the extra battery post. 
7. Locate the Longest wire in the kit. Take one end of the wire..and put that over the same battery post as the fender wire.
8. Using the nut and washer supplied in the kit and a 10mm socket…tighten the nut down till snug..but DO NOT over tighten…the wires need to be loose enough to move around. – See the picture below for how this should look when both wires are connected to the battery….









9. Run the long wire you just connected around the back of the battery – between the battery box and the Air box….and run it across to the engine.
10. At the top right of the Valve cover you will see a bolt and nut. There is a bracket that runs next to the engine that is secured with 5mm Allen bolts. Locate the Allen bolt closest to the top right of the engine and loosen a bit..DO NOT REMOVE. This will allow you better access to the bolt at the top right of the engine. See picture for approximate location…










12. Place the other end of the longest wire on that bolt that is now exposed. See Picture for location….(All Terminal Ends on this bolt are the larger ones)










13. Locate the 2nd longest wire in the kit….place one terminal end of that on top of the one you just put on from the battery.
14. Then follow the valve cover till you see the nut on the bottom right of the valve cover.
15. Remove that Nut...and place the other end of the 2nd longest wire over that – re-install the nut and tighten….see picture for location..









16. Find the shortest wire in the kit..and add it to that bolt at the top right of the engine as well....the large terminal end goes on that bolt. When you have all 3 on that bolt – re-install the nut and tighten till snug…but leave loose to adjust the wires. 
17.Locate the Throttle body. It is higher than the engine cover. There is a 5mm Allen bolt that sticks out of the throttle body on the top front of it. This bolt goes in from right to left into the intake manifold. Using your 5mm Allen key remove this bolt. 
18. Take the other end of the shortest wire…put the bolt through it and than back into the Throttle body. When you put this bolt back in be very careful NOT to over tighten…it goes into plastic and you can strip the threads easily. See Picture for location…









19. Once that is tight…and the wires are run how you want them..go back and re-tighten the 2 valve cover bolts….the battery terminal connection, the Allen bolt you loosened to get access to the valve cover bolt…and the fender connection. 
20. With the Wires run correctly..you should be able to re-install the Engine cover and the battery cover with little trouble. 

<DO AT YOUR OWN RISK I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY MISHAPS>


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (GTI 20th AE #1421)*

Awesome, thanks man. 
Is that your engine or someone elses pics?
Gonna do mine next weekend, will take pics and record results. I get about 25 mpg mixed driving so will see if there's any improvements.


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## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: (limastock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *limastock* »_Awesome, thanks man. 
Is that your engine or someone elses pics?
Gonna do mine next weekend, will take pics and record results. I get about 25 mpg mixed driving so will see if there's any improvements.

yeah , dont mention it. no this isnt my engine i got the instructions from IceColdJones here on Vortex. i did the same setup except i made mine at home and used Black wire looms wrapped around the outside of the 4ga. wire to protect it from engine heat. i cant really say if my acceleration got any better , i did notice it revs a tiny bit slower but it revs stronger now. idk, i guess i was expecting to see Holy Sheit type of power but thats not the case. i will have to calculate my fuel mileage though to see what kind of gains i got now.
glad i could help


_Modified by GTI 20th AE #1421 at 11:44 AM 4-22-2009_


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (GTI 20th AE #1421)*

Did mine today. Something came up soon after I finished and I ended up not driving it right away, so when I did I had actually forgotten i put it in. 
It wasnt until I noticed the increased throttle response that i remembered I had done the wiring earlier. It definetly feels more responsive and shifting feels smoother as well. Havent driven enough to calculate gas mileage so will report on that later but initial findings seem positive http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

















Please note the blue wire on the POSITIVE is my AUDIO!


_Modified by limastock at 4:32 PM 4-25-2009_


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## GTI 20th AE #1421 (Dec 7, 2006)

*Re: (limastock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *limastock* »_Did mine today. Something came up soon after I finished and I ended up not driving it right away, so when I did I had actually forgotten i put it in. 
It wasnt until I noticed the increased throttle response that i remembered I had done the wiring earlier. It definetly feels more responsive and shifting feels smoother as well. Havent driven enough to calculate gas mileage so will report on that later but initial findings seem positive http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

















Please note the blue wire on the POSITIVE is my AUDIO!

_Modified by limastock at 4:32 PM 4-25-2009_

Hey LIMASTOCK did you use gold plated terminals and did you hook it up the same as my write up?


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (GTI 20th AE #1421)*

No gold plated contacts but i hoooked it up the same


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## wagen6 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: (limastock)*

This is all very use full stuff. the only problem that i have is that i dunno where i get the damn wires. Everyone is talking about a kit, This thread is so ancient that if the links either don't work, or if they do the product no longer exists. So my request for a favor from you fellas is can some one get a copy of how to make the wire, or where to get it.. thanx http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (wagen6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wagen6* »_This is all very use full stuff. the only problem that i have is that i dunno where i get the damn wires. Everyone is talking about a kit, This thread is so ancient that if the links either don't work, or if they do the product no longer exists. So my request for a favor from you fellas is can some one get a copy of how to make the wire, or where to get it.. thanx http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

The kits are a rip off. They cost upwards of $100 and you can make your own for like $40 or less.
Go to your local audio install place/best buy and buy some wire. I used 4ga because thats what i had left over from old audio installs, im sure 8ga would be sufficient as well. Once youve got your wire you need to buy some connectors. Should be in the same place you get the wire from. If not go to lowes and hit up the electrical department.

/edit
Im just estimating but I believe I used about 2 1/2 feet of wire, so get like 3 feet to be safe. And youll need 8 connectors.


_Modified by limastock at 11:33 AM 5-1-2009_


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## wagen6 (Jun 5, 2008)

*Re: (limastock)*

Ok so from what it looks like we need 4 wires, do we have the meashurements for each?


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (wagen6)*

My gti is 450 miles away right now so I don't, however you don't need the measurements for each wire. just buy a long wire and cut it as you go, measuring by hand. That's what I did anyway.


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## DorkyJoao (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: (wagen6)*

no one makes 24v kits anymore?
24v's got it bad with the aftermarket support, huh? ahah


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## sx5_roy (Oct 15, 2008)

*Re: (DorkyJoao)*

like someone already tried inquiring, similarity with the 12v ? having issues might be due to grounding ? thanks ... and if anyone think they can help out it would be greatly appreciated : http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...82531
Thanks


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

i have all the materials to make groundkits for our cars...
PM me if u want me to make a quick kit.
its only 4 cables (8guage)
the only thing i gained was i was able to pick up a local radio station literally 5miles from my house that i was never able to pick up unless i was outside the city


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

Well I seem to be getting 27-28 mpg now at a 70/30 mix of highway/city driving so that's an increase of 2-3 mpgs so im happy.


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## semipimpedauto (Jun 7, 2007)

4grounding.com


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## apstguy (Apr 3, 2006)

*Re: (semipimpedauto)*

I found this pic in the Bentley when I was looking in it the other day. Gives you a good idea of where the major grounds are in the engine bay.


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## stascom (Sep 12, 2009)

My $20 eBay kit gave me 1mpg increase in city. 2 on highway. I think it will have paid for itself in a couple of weeks


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## VR6_powered (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: (stascom)*

bump for an old, but useful post! Just did this about a week ago and i was impressed at the results, more mpgs, smoother running car and more responsive throttle for sure http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif can't go wrong for $15


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## hockey57 (Feb 7, 2009)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (^Doogie)*

Why is this a new post? the pictures are not loading. I need the pictures. Sounds like it would be worth a try.


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## VR6_powered (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (hockey57)*

http://vid21.photobucket.com/a...0.flv
heres a short clip showing the kit i made. Note that the cable that runs under the battery is connected to the screw that holds down the platform where the battery sits. When you are making the kit, make sure you scrape off any paint or gunk around the screws that you connect to. Hope this helps http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Ld7w_VR (Apr 21, 2006)

*Re: Anyone used a grounding kit on their 24V engine? (VR6_powered)*

I really need to do this. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Lots of good stuff in here.


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## turbonium89 (Aug 1, 2008)

1-20-2011
after reading reviews and doing a little research i finally got myself to do this little add on. the grounding kit seemed like it could help quite a bit. well i had handy 8 guage wire around so i went and got some copper connectors. found all mounting points for each ground and went at it. i was sure to sand down any painted, dirty, uneven surfaces and clean them thoroughly. and sized and cut each wire accordingly. crimped the connectors on and bolted each one accordingly. 

took her for a spin and instantly you can tell a difference. my lights were brighter, no lag between gear changes, throttle response is instant and crisp. my headlights and interior lights are noticeably brighter and i never have seen them flicker or dim so i'm wondering if thats just people who have upgraded sound systems. waiting to document fuel mileage. but theres power there for sure where there wasnt before.

one thing that is different negatively is that my radio used to pick up local radio stations pretty damn good despite me not having an antenna anymore. and after the grounding kit there a bit more static. i disconnected the grounding kit i homemade and the static for the most point is gone. do i have to get a new antenna? or just switch to cd's and ipod. haha

anyways, great find and awesome little project to do yourself. i spent $2 on connectors and basically feels like a good 4-6hp, like adding a cold air intake, for $2 you cant regret it. i can chirp 3rd gear now. with sticky tires. "just do it" as nike says


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## vrisk (Jan 1, 2005)

turbonium89 said:


> 1-20-2011
> after reading reviews and doing a little research i finally got myself to do this little add on. the grounding kit seemed like it could help quite a bit. well i had handy 8 guage wire around so i went and got some copper connectors. found all mounting points for each ground and went at it. i was sure to sand down any painted, dirty, uneven surfaces and clean them thoroughly. and sized and cut each wire accordingly. crimped the connectors on and bolted each one accordingly.
> 
> took her for a spin and instantly you can tell a difference. my lights were brighter, no lag between gear changes, throttle response is instant and crisp. my headlights and interior lights are noticeably brighter and i never have seen them flicker or dim so i'm wondering if thats just people who have upgraded sound systems. waiting to document fuel mileage. but theres power there for sure where there wasnt before.
> ...


 You have any pics of where you mounted the grounds?


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## turbonium89 (Aug 1, 2008)

i will take pics in a couple weeks when i do my clutch diy project, 

i copied the guys pics from page 7 or 8


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## 03gleye (May 8, 2010)

anyone selling a kit?


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## MachtSchnell (Oct 31, 2010)

03gleye said:


> anyone selling a kit?


Go to Home Depot or equivalent and construct your own kit, maybe go to Radio Shack and get some quality ring ended cable ends. 6-8awg wire should suffice, I have no problems with my set-up with 8awg. 

Far cheaper to go this route rather than paying for a kit.


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

for those of you who have installed a grounding kit- are you running stock management / software? I mean for ~$45 to increase throttle response & MPG (maybe?) a bit on a stock ecu.... cool..... but for someone who is chipped / runs standalone I don't see the point. Running UM software I get pretty much instant throttle response.

also, I wonder if some of these "feelings" (aka feel like I'm going faster) are psychosematic? how much WHP gain can you get from a grounding kit? Can you really say you feel 3-4 HP? (or whatever it is). Also I drove my 24v stock for 2 years before I messed with it, not once did I feel stumbling on a downshift / or flickering lights / etc..... and my VR was bought salvaged after sitting in an outdoor wrecking yard for a year in PA..... so this whole thread just seems odd to me. If these issues occurred I'd probably first sand down / grind my grounding points to make sure everything is making clean contact - instead of _adding_ more wires to fix what may be a somewhat crappy ground.

and I'm not bashing anybody by any means - I'm just trying to make sense of it all. This just seems like a ~$45 witch hunt for results that people "feel" but can't measure.


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## MachtSchnell (Oct 31, 2010)

24vGTiVR6 said:


> for those of you who have installed a grounding kit- are you running stock management / software? I mean for ~$45 to increase throttle response & MPG (maybe?) a bit on a stock ecu.... cool..... but for someone who is chipped / runs standalone I don't see the point. Running UM software I get pretty much instant throttle response.
> 
> also, I wonder if some of these "feelings" (aka feel like I'm going faster) are psychosematic? how much WHP gain can you get from a grounding kit? Can you really say you feel 3-4 HP? (or whatever it is). Also I drove my 24v stock for 2 years before I messed with it, not once did I feel stumbling on a downshift / or flickering lights / etc..... and my VR was bought salvaged after sitting in an outdoor wrecking yard for a year in PA..... so this whole thread just seems odd to me. If these issues occurred I'd probably first sand down / grind my grounding points to make sure everything is making clean contact - instead of _adding_ more wires to fix what may be a somewhat crappy ground.
> 
> and I'm not bashing anybody by any means - I'm just trying to make sense of it all. This just seems like a ~$45 witch hunt for results that people "feel" but can't measure.


Yea I have not come up with a definitive answer if these "kits" are beneficial. Ive taken mine off and reinstalled a few times and honestly cannot tell a difference and also no noticeable change in fuel mileage. 

But I did poke around to various grounds to check resistance with a multimeter, and the only one with high(er) resistance was from the throttle body; and again I did not notice any change in throttle response with a ground strap attached.


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