# Help needed, death rattle ?, sounds like "oil-less" on starting, Mobil One



## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

.VR6 24v, 2002 AXK
I need input please.... This loud , metalic , rattle only presents on start-up after a half days non use... It then only lasts about 30 seconds, this EuroVan then runs quiet. ...Any starts, after the first, are then quiet. ...I bought this 2002 MV four months ago, from the first owner @ 118 K, now, 121 k. The first owner says he only used Mobil One. I am going to do the first engine oil & filter change this week.....he had it changed the week before I drove it back to Wisconsin from his farm in Mass. I am looking for any ideas on this death rattle. I plan on having a sample of the oil tested after I do the change. I have run straight syn. oils in all my heavy machines for 30 years......should I try something else in this case ? It sounds like an older engine with solid lifters , low on oil, or an anti-drain back valve that's not doing it's job any more. I have changed the trans oil & filter as per the many posts here.........If someone around Milwaukee can put a well trained ear to this ....I would pay for real skill here, thanks for help....Tom
I need input please.... This loud , metalic , rattle only presents on start-up after a half days non use... It then only lasts about 30 seconds, this EuroVan then runs quiet. ...Any starts, after the first, are then quiet. ...I bought this 2002 MV four months ago, from the first owner @ 118 K, now, 121 k. The first owner says he only used Mobil One. I am going to do the first engine oil & filter change this week.....he had it changed the week before I drove it back to Wisconsin from his farm in Mass. I am looking for any ideas on this death rattle. I plan on having a sample of the oil tested after I do the change. I have run straight syn. oils in all my heavy machines for 30 years......should I try something else in this case ? It sounds like an older engine with solid lifters , low on oil, or an anti-drain back valve that's not doing it's job any more. I have changed the trans oil & filter as per the many posts here.........If someone around Milwaukee can put a well trained ear to this ....I would pay for real skill here, thanks for help....Tom


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## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

*Willing to pay for real skill on oilless first starts VR6 24v 121k Mobil One*



Operating Engineer O/O said:


> .VR6 24v, 2002 AXK
> I need input please.... This loud , metalic , rattle only presents on start-up after a half days non use... It then only lasts about 30 seconds, this EuroVan then runs quiet. ...Any starts, after the first, are then quiet. ...I bought this 2002 MV four months ago, from the first owner @ 118 K, now, 121 k. The first owner says he only used Mobil One. I am going to do the first engine oil & filter change this week.....he had it changed the week before I drove it back to Wisconsin from his farm in Mass. I am looking for any ideas on this death rattle. I plan on having a sample of the oil tested after I do the change. I have run straight syn. oils in all my heavy machines for 30 years......should I try something else in this case ? It sounds like an older engine with solid lifters , low on oil, or an anti-drain back valve that's not doing it's job any more. I have changed the trans oil & filter as per the many posts here.........If someone around Milwaukee can put a well trained ear to this ....I would pay for real skill here, thanks for help....Tom
> I need input please.... This loud , metalic , rattle only presents on start-up after a half days non use... It then only lasts about 30 seconds, this EuroVan then runs quiet. ...Your Ideas please ????


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## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

*Willing to pay for real skill on oilless first starts VR6 24v 121k Mobil One*



Operating Engineer O/O said:


> Operating Engineer O/O said:
> 
> 
> > .VR6 24v, 2002 AXK
> ...


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## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

.VR6 24v, 2002 AXK I will pay for help on this......
I need input please.... This loud , metalic , rattle only presents on start-up after a half days non use... It then only lasts about 30 seconds, this EuroVan then runs quiet. ...Any starts, after the first, are then quiet. ...I bought this 2002 MV six months ago, from the first owner @ 118 K, now, 121 k. The first owner says he only used Mobil One. I am going to do the first engine oil & filter change this week.....he had it changed the week before I drove it back to Wisconsin from his farm in Mass. I am looking for any ideas on this death rattle. I plan on having a sample of the oil tested after I do the change. I have run straight syn. oils in all my heavy machines for 30 years......should I try something else in this case ? It sounds like an older engine with solid lifters , low on oil, or an anti-drain back valve that's not doing it's job any more. I have changed the trans oil & filter as per the many posts here.........If someone around Milwaukee can put a well trained ear to this ....I would pay for real skill here, thanks for help....Tom, Your Ideas please ??

Bump to Top 11 Jan 2013


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## Dennis M (Jan 26, 2012)

Did you change the oil yet? Which Mobil1 was the previous owner running?
You could try M1 0W-40 if that's not what was used. M1 TDT 5W-40 or Rotella T6 5W-40 may help quieten things a bit, although they may be took thick for WI winters (M1 TDT is thicker in all temps than RT6). Mobil1 High Mileage may work as well.

Although, I'm not sure if your problem is rated to the oil brand, the viscosity, or a mechanical problem.


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## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

Dennis M said:


> Did you change the oil yet? Which Mobil1 was the previous owner running?
> You could try M1 0W-40 if that's not what was used. M1 TDT 5W-40 or Rotella T6 5W-40 may help quieten things a bit, although they may be took thick for WI winters (M1 TDT is thicker in all temps than RT6). Mobil1 High Mileage may work as well.
> 
> Although, I'm not sure if your problem is rated to the oil brand, the viscosity, or a mechanical problem.


 Thanks Dennis....I have not changed oil yet...have been hoping for any input first. The Mobil 1 from previous owner is an unknown grade per his comment. That oil now has 3,100 miles on it. It has been below freezing for weeks here. Next week (maybe ) in mid 30's , so I will change it then. I don't blame the noise on oil......but I must try something soon, these starts sound bad....thanks again, Tom


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

Tom,

Sounds like a hydraulic lifter that won't stay pumped up due to internal wear. Very common with VW/Audi engines at some point (I've owned six of them). You could also check oil pressure and see if it meets Spec - from memory think the measurement is done with an oil temp of 75C/167F @ 2000 rpms. Pressure should be > 2 bars, ie 30 psi.

If this engine has a canister type oil filter you can also remove the filter and examine the pleats for debris. This is common practice for piston engine aircraft.

Good luck!

Ted


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## Nosmo (May 26, 2002)

It could be a worn lifter but it also might be a sticking lifter. The best I have found for a sticky , varnished and generally gummed up is a can of Rislone oil additive. Try that. Remove some engine oil, a quart via the dipstick hole if you have a pump. Or wait till you are down a bit. If it works, get it out of there and do a fresh oil change.
As a mechanic this has worked for me many times. It will only fix sticky or gummed up rings and lifters. Good luck.


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## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

*Sounds "oil-less " on starting, will pay for guidance...*

Thanks to Nosmo , Ted, & others....I have now done my first oil change on this AXK VR 6, the oil filter was not seated right in the canister by the last person to change this filter..the pleats were somewhat crinkeled... I was hoping that might have been the problem.....but that would have been toooo easy ! It still makes the same harsh rattle for 15- 30 seconds on start up....depending on how long since last started ....& then all is quiet....I added a full quart of additive (Lucas) along with all '' full '' syn oil...the level is proper on the dipstick , just as it was before this change. This VR 6 has used no oil in the 4,000 miles since I bought it. If there is anyone around south east Wisconsin with skills on this issue, I will pay for guidance here ! Tom


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

Have you checked or replace the timing tensioner bolt? :sly:


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## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

*Sounds "oil-less " on starting, Mobil One, will pay for help here in Milwaukee !*

If someone is around Milwaukee, I will travel to your place or I have Vag- com, lift & lots of tools...this rattle is worse since it is not so cold outdoors... 
I need input please.... This loud , metalic , rattle only presents on start-up after a half days non use... It then only lasts about 30 seconds, this EuroVan then runs quiet. ...Any starts, after the first, are then quiet. ...I bought this 2002 MV six months ago, from the first owner @ 118 K, now, 121 k. The first owner says he only used Mobil One. I am going to do the first engine oil & filter change this week.....he had it changed the week before I drove it back to Wisconsin from his farm in Mass. I am looking for any ideas on this death rattle. I plan on having a sample of the oil tested after I do the change. I have run straight syn. oils in all my heavy machines for 30 years......should I try something else in this case ? It sounds like an older engine with solid lifters , low on oil, or an anti-drain back valve that's not doing it's job any more. I have changed the trans oil & filter as per the many posts here.........If someone around Milwaukee can put a well trained ear to this ....I would pay for real skill here, thanks for help....Tom, Your Ideas please ?? 

I have since put 1,000 miles on new full syn....the P.owner had the filter not seated right & had the pleats a little crushed, however this rattle is still the same. How do I check or replace the timing tensioner bolt?


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## brownchicken/browncow (Dec 20, 2011)

Operating Engineer O/O said:


> How do I check or replace the timing tensioner bolt?


 Back of engine on driver's side, 24mm, unthread, if you can push the piston in easily the seal is probably bad or the feed hole maybe clogged up.......I'd just get a new one to be safe.


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## Operating Engineer O/O (Aug 5, 2012)

*Thank you for input, you were correct, rattle gone.*



brownchicken/browncow said:


> Back of engine on driver's side, 24mm, unthread, if you can push the piston in easily the seal is probably bad or the feed hole maybe clogged up.......I'd just get a new one to be safe.


Thank you to brownchicken/browncow, & many others for input.....I replaced the upper tensioner bolt today......death rattle on start-up.....GONE, thanks.... T.


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## Tjamesj (Oct 7, 2014)

Operating Engineer O/O said:


> Thank you to brownchicken/browncow, & many others for input.....I replaced the upper tensioner bolt today......death rattle on start-up.....GONE, thanks.... T.


I have this same noise on startup. Glad to hear this might fix it. Have you had any issues since replacing the bolt? I'm just wondering if the need for the bolt replacement is a symptom of a larger problem with the entire timing chain.

Thanks!


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