# C2 Stage 2 Real Horsepower Numbers



## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

SAE corrected numbers from a Mustang Dyno.
Horsepower 226whp
Torque 277wtq
Quarter mile run 14.49
Definitely not 250whp from non SAE corrected numbers.


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## Lower it!! (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: C2 Stage 2 Real Horsepower Numbers (burntbunny)*

Damn 14.4 that sucks. Erik04GTI ran a 15.1 with his rabbit with boltons.


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

*Re: C2 Stage 2 Real Horsepower Numbers (Lower it!!)*

Yeah, but the car sounds really sick.


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## Lower it!! (Aug 1, 2007)

*Re: C2 Stage 2 Real Horsepower Numbers (burntbunny)*

4500 dollars of cool sound is right.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: C2 Stage 2 Real Horsepower Numbers (burntbunny)*

can you post the graph please?


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

*Re: C2 Stage 2 Real Horsepower Numbers (Audi4u)*

I will as soon as I get my scanner to start working again.


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## Tbugsy (Nov 11, 2007)

damn...that's disappointing. 
This is your own car right?


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## Erik04gti (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: (Tbugsy)*

whats the mph... withot knowing that, 14.4 could mean a driver mod is needed (no offense)
how about this for the next mod:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (Erik04gti)*

the mph is 100.6506


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## filippob1 (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: (burntbunny)*

man C2 is getting some real bad pr. My srt-4 did a 14.01 @100 stock!
Damn I miss that car


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2008)

*Re: (burntbunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burntbunny* »_the mph is 100.6506

Thats good for a high 13, not too shabby for a stock clutch! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

gonna have mine pull the rollers this weekend with a spec stg 2 thats just barely broken in and a high flow cat. Not sure if I'm gonna be doing the strip yet or not. I've never drag raced before so I'm doubting I'll get good numbers unless I let one of the BVA guys do the run for me



_Modified by BlackRabbit2point5 at 8:22 PM 7-30-2008_


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

man I was drunk last night, didn't realize I posted the exact same thing in your other thread


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## Erik04gti (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: (burntbunny)*

100 mph trap as said is good for a high 13.... my chipped 1.8t went 14.08 at 99 with just software
also, alot of thing can factor into your time, i see your in florida, so im sure it was hot and most likly humid when you ran, your elavation also could be taken into consideration (but again, your in florida, so im sure its nothing bad), and the track prep, one of the biggest things, the track i run at is one of the best around in terms of prep and elavation
so seeing as you trapped 100 on a stock clutch and i trapped 91, i'd say that C2 kit isn't to shabby


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (Erik04gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Erik04gti* »_
also, alot of thing can factor into your time, i see your in florida, so im sure it was hot and most likly humid when you ran, your elavation also could be taken into consideration (but again, your in florida, so im sure its nothing bad), and the track prep, one of the biggest things, the track i run at is one of the best around in terms of prep and elavation
so seeing as you trapped 100 on a stock clutch and i trapped 91, i'd say that C2 kit isn't to shabby

Thanks for interjecting a dose of reason.
OP's dyno results were taken from a Mustang dyno. WHP is low but torque is well beyond what C2 quotes for Stage 2. Without a baseline "before" dyno session, IMO it is totally unreasonable to use these numbers and claim that C2 did not deliver as promised.
As stated above, OP is in FL and our summertime heat and extreme (and I mean extreme) humidity levels absolutely guarantee lower dyno numbers and slower 1/4-mile times.


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## turbomonkeyexpress (Nov 26, 2004)

besides the fact that the Butt dyno probably feels quite a good amount of power


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

227whp is ASS . i was under the impression stage 2 was at least 250 whp and stage 1 was 220whp. something must be wrong


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## _V-Dubber_ (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*

Dude, 220 something is still 80whp more than stock.


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## esp (Jun 11, 2007)

could be a problem with your installation...we have seen this before...


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sl33pyb* »_227whp is ASS . i was under the impression stage 2 was at least 250 whp and stage 1 was 220whp. something must be wrong

Folks, surely you realize that numbers from different cars using different types of dynos operated under different conditions simply cannot be compared apples-to-apples?
Don't you?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

4500 bucks sucks ass for only picking up 9mph over other rabbits...i have picked up 8mph before by just changing gas in my car from 93oct to 100oct


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Right. And the OP and the car you're comparing him to ran at the same track on the same day.
Damn, JC, I'd have figured you'd be the last one to post up that kind of crap. 
Now, if the OP has somewhere posted that he himself ran 9-mph slower before the C2 install, then I apologize. But his posting history doesn't show it...


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Here we go AGAIN
IBTL


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

i don't even have an answer for that, this turbo kit speaks for itself


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

brad.... 227 is still ass HP for a turbo car at 8 psi. its nothing. at 8 psi i would expect 250whp at least from our 2.5


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_Here we go AGAIN
IBTL

For real. JC's obviously stirring it up with his post about $4500 to add 9-mph. Maybe some dumbass believes that stuff, but JC knows as well as I do that no stock 2.5 runs the 1/4 mile in 15.1 @ 91. Most stock 2.5s are in the mid 16's and mid 80's. But pointing that out doesn't make the C2 kit look so bad, does it?
Is that your and JC's strategy? To troll every C2 thread you can find? Isn't that kind of sad? 
Guys I really don't get why you're so threatened by C2. You guys are firmly in the hardcore end of the 2.5 performance spectrum and C2 doesn't seem like they have any interest in making anything to compete with Andre's car. So if you're not just out to hurt C2 in the wallet, or even on a personal level, WTF?


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

2 days till I can post up a 2nd set of results for the kit. Hoping to do better


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

My car originally ran with a different custom exhaust and better tires before the turbo a 16.65 at 82 mph so it is still a big improvement over stock. 
I am not ripping on C2 in any way, I just wanted people to know the SAE corrected horsepower numbers on a mustang dyno so others didn't have to wonder anymore. Dynojet dyno pulls are normally highly in favor of the creator of kits that they make and that is why I dynoed it to begin with. It would have been $25 cheaper for me to do a pull on the Dynojet that was sitting in the next room over. I'd rather know it has less horsepower than think it has more.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (nascent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nascent* »_
For real. JC's obviously stirring it up with his post about $4500 to add 9-mph. Maybe some dumbass believes that stuff, but JC knows as well as I do that no stock 2.5 runs the 1/4 mile in 15.1 @ 91. Most stock 2.5s are in the mid 16's and mid 80's. But pointing that out doesn't make the C2 kit look so bad, does it?
Is that your and JC's strategy? To troll every C2 thread you can find? Isn't that kind of sad? 
Guys I really don't get why you're so threatened by C2. You guys are firmly in the hardcore end of the 2.5 performance spectrum and C2 doesn't seem like they have any interest in making anything to compete with Andre's car. So if you're not just out to hurt C2 in the wallet, or even on a personal level, WTF?



No one is threatened by c2. The last time I checked my cars make more power than the most powerful kit they sell.
the point is this








I know its not the same say, time. season, hemisphere, whatever.
FSI guys are making more power with bolt ons.
I am taking this personal, the 2.5 is a great motor and to see the dyno numbers depresses me.
This is just how I feel. This motor is capable of more, I hate for new comers to see this motor as the new 2.slow ---f that I will not allow it.
I mean DAMN, VAG made more power with a much smaller turbo.
If the car is going to be less than 250whp then why not just buy a chipped FSI and keep your warranty.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

can you honestly blame me for bashing a 5 cylinder turbo kit that produces less horsepower than most 4cyl vag turbo kits and less hp that a stage 1 Naturally aspirated R32







i mean come on give me a break


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (esp)*

1552v2 installed my kit while they had C2's car at their shop. So there is no way with their experience and the car being there to check for any variations that the kit was installed incorrectly. That is why I chose their shop for my install. They have the experience and have a great shop.


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## turbomonkeyexpress (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Folks, surely you realize that numbers from different cars using different types of dynos operated under different conditions simply cannot be compared apples-to-apples?
Don't you?


Obviously not. Common sense isnt always common.


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## [email protected] (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (sl33pyb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sl33pyb* »_brad.... 227 is still ass HP for a turbo car at 8 psi. its nothing. at 8 psi i would expect 250whp at least from our 2.5

Let me put it this way; if the OP's car had dynoed 137 to the wheels in stock form on that very same Mustang dyno and then put up 227-whp after the turbo install, would you still say that 227-whp is ass? If so, then I'd suggest you're not fully educated on how to interpret dyno results. 
When using a dyno for "before and after" results, what you're looking for are not peak numbers, but rather a percentage of gain between the two runs. My example above shows about a 66% gain in whp from stock to C2 turbo.
And FTR, when I was GM for VF-Engineering in 2006, we were in development with GIAC for chip tuning the 2.5 with our prototype intake. GIAC has a Mustang dyno. We tested several different 2.5s and most of them dynoed in the 135 to 140-whp range. The same cars dynoed 10 to 15-whp higher on VF's Dynojet 248c.
Using a Dynojet, most stock 2.5s I've seen dyno around 145 to 150-whp. C2 claims 250-whp from Stage 2 on a Dynojet. Please note that is also approximately 66% gain.
Without some before numbers for the OP's car using that same Mustang dyno, his 227 result is simply not comparable to any other results, especially those that come from using a Dynojet.


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## sagerabbit (Aug 14, 2007)

OP, your car is running, no CELs, and you must be happy with the butt dyno. Glad to see another turbo rabbit on the road!


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
No one is threatened by c2. The last time I checked my cars make more power than the most powerful kit they sell.

Didn't I say that? 
C2 is selling a volume kit at specific price point that pretty much anyone can install and drive. Instead of huge power numbers, they're going for consistent numbers using pretty standard parts. 
You're building a "kit" that uses standalone and other more exotic hardware, costs a lot more to build, achieves way more impressive power, and to the best of my knowledge you don't seem too concerned about selling a hundred similar kits to the general public.
Since what you and C2 are doing and the way you're doing it are not at all comparable, I really don't get why you feel the need to comment in every C2 2.5 thread that pops up? 
When you're actually selling a fully developed bolt-on 2.5T kit that makes more power and costs less than the C2 kits, I guess then I won't find your constant jabs so annoying.


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_can you honestly blame me for bashing a 5 cylinder turbo kit that produces less horsepower than most 4cyl vag turbo kits and less hp that a stage 1 Naturally aspirated R32







i mean come on give me a break

Yeah, I guess I can. Besides the fact I think it's juvenile and anti-enthusiast in general, you're going out of your way to make things look worse than they are (like only adding 9-mph over stock). I sure ain't your dad or anything, so go on doing what you think is right. I just think it's pretty uncool and a PITA for people like me who are watching these threads to see if we want to purchase a C2 kit.


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: (nascent)*

I don't know if this helps or not but I thought that I would share my dyno sheet. This dyno was run on my stock rabbit with a GIAC flash and my AWE catback exhaust. Since this time, I have installed the C2 turbo kit. Once I get it back up and running, I would be happy to do another Dyno run to compare apples-to-apples....


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (nascent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nascent* »_
Yeah, I guess I can. Besides the fact I think it's juvenile and anti-enthusiast in general, you're going out of your way to make things look worse than they are (like only adding 9-mph over stock). I sure ain't your dad or anything, so go on doing what you think is right. I just think it's pretty uncool and a PITA for people like me who are watching these threads to see if we want to purchase a C2 kit.

well since you said something about it in your reply to andre i guess i will spill the beans that their *will* in deed be a turbo kit coming out in the future based around andres turbo kit that is going to make c2's power look like a joke and is going to be based around the same price http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and all we are trying to do is open peoples eyes to realize that the kit is not worth it because bottom line is when you roll up to a traffic light in your stage 2 c2 kit and their is a reflashed GTI next to your gonna get smoked which is pretty lame


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Well, I'm being serious when I say that's good news and I look forward to seeing the results.
But the key word there is results. No offense, but can't you see how lame it is to talk that kind of smack before you've even come close to doing what you say you're going to do? Once your kit is here ready for me to buy, and it's fully tuned and ready to roll, and it's making more power than the C2 Stage 2 kit, and it doesn't cost more than their kit, and you have several customers posting up their experiences with your kit, then it's time to say the kinds of things you're already saying now.
Keep crapping on your admitted competitor's product and you run the risk of appearing unethical and motivated by sales and money rather than your previously claimed dedication to the 2.5 engine and the enthusiasts who own one.
As a potential future customer of yours, do you see where I'm coming from?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (nascent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nascent* »_
Keep crapping on your admitted competitor's product and you run the risk of appearing unethical and motivated by sales and money rather than your previously claimed dedication to the 2.5 engine and the enthusiasts who own one.
As a potential future customer of yours, do you see where I'm coming from? 

Listen the only reason i am "talking crap" is because the kit is truely not worth the money, why are they scared to make power on this motor? they are not affraid to make a bunch of power with any of their VR software....they don't want to take it past the 250whp mark because you start running into more and more issues with the stock ecu and its sensors, with that said we have already made 400whp with the stock ecu having full control and a fuel controller their are many many bridges to cross that takes some serious time and brain power to figure out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif im not bashing for the sake of bashing a company i like everything they do other than the 2.5 kit, seems like if they worked a little harder and did some more research they would have atleast made a kit worthy of making low to mid 300whp range and if they say the stock motor is not capable of handeling that power daily they would be lieing to you







you 2.5 guys deserve better


_Modified by [email protected] at 11:04 AM 8-1-2008_


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (nascent)*

nascent, I thought you owned a R32. What 2.5 model vw do you own?


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

I do have an R32. My girl's got a 2007 Rabbit. Why?


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (nascent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nascent* »_I do have an R32. My girl's got a 2007 Rabbit. Why? 

I did a search on your recent post bodies.


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*

What does that mean? 
If there's something you want to know, how about just asking me?
I guess you feel I'm being a d!ck here but that's not what I'm trying to do. Ever since the bad wastegate thread I guess I'm just a little extra critical as to what you guys are saying. Add to that I like to argue and I guess I can see where you might be getting a little pissed. If so, please don't take any of this personally.


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

I got the video of the quarter mile pulls on youtube now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypaRt5eeWJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IWTGCx_AXA
power pulls arent up yet

_Modified by burntbunny at 12:46 PM 8-1-2008_


_Modified by burntbunny at 12:47 PM 8-1-2008_


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## Erik04gti (Sep 28, 2004)

*Re: (burntbunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burntbunny* »_{b}My car originally ran with a different custom exhaust and better tires before the turbo a 16.65 at 82 mph so it is still a big improvement over stock..


im not trying to be offensive in any way, but your not the best driver in the world, maybe learn to drive the car first, then complain about the power and et's
no offense
just watched your, "1/4 mile pull".... next time, go to a track and get numbers, not on a dyno


_Modified by Erik04gti at 2:54 PM 8-1-2008_


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (nascent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nascent* »_What does that mean? 
If there's something you want to know, how about just asking me?
I guess you feel I'm being a d!ck here but that's not what I'm trying to do. Ever since the bad wastegate thread I guess I'm just a little extra critical as to what you guys are saying. Add to that I like to argue and I guess I can see where you might be getting a little pissed. If so, please don't take any of this personally.



You got it all wrong. I'm not pissed at all, just wanted to know who I was dealing with. Looking at someones previous posts is an easy way to see their interests and character. 
The only threads you have ever posted in the 2.5 forum has to do with the c2 threads, and ONLY after Jeff or I have posted.
The other thing I noticed is that %95 of what you post is an indifference to someone's opinion and even proven theories. So yes as you said you do like to argue. 
I'm not taking anything you say personal, but now that I know from your previous posts you have to have the last word, You can have it.
When you're ready to talk technical, I'll be more then happy to have a conversation with you.
Andre'


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (burntbunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burntbunny* »_I got the video of the quarter mile pulls on youtube now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypaRt5eeWJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IWTGCx_AXA
power pulls arent up yet

_Modified by burntbunny at 12:46 PM 8-1-2008_

_Modified by burntbunny at 12:47 PM 8-1-2008_

I didn't know the pulls where on the dyno? you need to label your 1/4 mile time as an estimated number then.


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## chikubi (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_now that I know from your previous posts you have to have the last word, You can have it.

Thanks.









Jokes aside, I guess the 6 years I've been on this forum have left me pretty cynical and ready to argue. My low post count reflects the fact that I only post when I feel I have something to say and if that's to counter something someone else has said, well, it is what it is.
I've been watching the 2.5 tech forum for a while since we've been talking about modding my girl's rabbit and also because the 2.5 is a new engine that intrigues me. I used to own an ur-Quattro and always wanted to do a 20v swap... I think you already know why I've made the comments I have because I'm pretty sure I've been clear about the issues I've had with not just some of the things you and JC said, but also the way you've said them. If it seems like I need to have the last word it's only because I feel like I have good points and just need to work a little harder to get people to see them.
We have talked tech in the past and I've enjoyed our exchanges. I did feel that you were sometimes only looking at data that supported your assumptions, but no doubt you think I've done the same.
Glad there are no hard feelings and I do look forward to seeing what you have to offer the 2.5 enthusiast.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (nascent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nascent* »_
Thanks.









Jokes aside, I guess the 6 years I've been on this forum have left me pretty cynical and ready to argue. My low post count reflects the fact that I only post when I feel I have something to say and if that's to counter something someone else has said, well, it is what it is.
I've been watching the 2.5 tech forum for a while since we've been talking about modding my girl's rabbit and also because the 2.5 is a new engine that intrigues me. I used to own an ur-Quattro and always wanted to do a 20v swap... I think you already know why I've made the comments I have because I'm pretty sure I've been clear about the issues I've had with not just some of the things you and JC said, but also the way you've said them. If it seems like I need to have the last word it's only because I feel like I have good points and just need to work a little harder to get people to see them.
We have talked tech in the past and I've enjoyed our exchanges. I did feel that you were sometimes only looking at data that supported your assumptions, but no doubt you think I've done the same.
Glad there are no hard feelings and I do look forward to seeing what you have to offer the 2.5 enthusiast.









I respect that. 
Lets try this a different way.
Said product is advertised as "250whp"
None on the cars running the setup actually made the advertised power(even after some users have changed parts to get close to the advertised power)
Do you thing that instead of tuning the car to exactly 250whp it should have been a little more to compensate for different climates, dynos, air densities etc
Is this just a case of false advertising?
What are you feelings?


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## rod_bender (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_
I respect that. 
Lets try this a different way.
Said product is advertised as "250whp"
None on the cars running the setup actually made the advertised power(even after some users have changed parts to get close to the advertised power)
Do you thing that instead of tuning the car to exactly 250whp it should have been a little more to compensate for different climates, dynos, air densities etc
Is this just a case of false advertising?


From the C2 Website:
https://www.c2motorsports.net/....aspx
Dyno chart shows 220whp/237lbft.
Stage 2: 250whp EST 
I assume EST means estimated.
'False' advertising is stretch.
RE: the dyno chart you posted
That chart shows 224whp which is less than the OP's car.
Your chart does not illustrate: "my cars make more power than the most powerful kit they sell."
Feel free to promote yourself. 
Its a (nearly) free market in the US. 
Bring your kit to market, please, perhaps drive C2's 2.5L direction some.
If your kit doesn't deliver more and/or cost less like you have said it will, you can expect a severe/total loss of credibility.
You will still sell kits to the C2 haters... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## filippob1 (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
well since you said something about it in your reply to andre i guess i will spill the beans that their *will* in deed be a turbo kit coming out in the future based around andres turbo kit that is going to make c2's power look like a joke and is going to be based around the same price http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and all we are trying to do is open peoples eyes to realize that the kit is not worth it because bottom line is when you roll up to a traffic light in your stage 2 c2 kit and their is a reflashed GTI next to your gonna get smoked which is pretty lame










JC and Andre you just made my day, I cant wait for your turbo kit to come out!!








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

_Modified by burntbunny at 10:53 PM 8-1-2008_


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## absoluteczech (Sep 13, 2006)

*Re: (burntbunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burntbunny* »_I got the video of the quarter mile pulls on youtube now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypaRt5eeWJ0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IWTGCx_AXA
power pulls arent up yet


engine mounts asap


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (absoluteczech)*

exactly, they are my next mods along with the tranny mount


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## THE KILLER RABBIT (Jun 2, 2003)

here is my video of the runs more specifically the 4th gear pull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx1kGqdvP28


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (THE KILLER RABBIT)*

the last 30sec of the video is great. got to love the 2.5 sound.


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: (burntbunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burntbunny* »_exactly, they are my next mods along with the tranny mount

Ok, that being said... where can you find them. I have a dog bone on mine already. I tried to purchase tranny and engine mounts from VF and they were listed as for the 2.5 rabbit. But when we received them, they were actually for the GTI and did not fit. Does anyone know of a company out there that actually makes them for the MKV rabbit? I re-checked with VF's president at Waterfest and he said that there still was not enough demand for them yet?????


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: (THE KILLER RABBIT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *THE KILLER RABBIT* »_here is my video of the runs more specifically the 4th gear pull.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rx1kGqdvP28

Very nice! By the way, I want your R front end!!!


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

I did some pulls on my c2 stg 2 today but the dyno was way off and seemed to not be consistant at all. A 6PSI 12v VRT pulled like 174 on it, a revo stg 2 gti with front mount with adjusted programming and full mounts pulled 234 and I pulled 197hp with 226 torque. I have another pull next week at waterwerks should be more reliable if not I'm gonna dyno at a shop. Gonna try to pull a number of dynos to get an average. 6 months and updated software and flashload capability will hit this kit


_Modified by BlackRabbit2point5 at 12:43 AM 8-3-2008_


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## NaKoRuRu (Jun 5, 2005)

*Re: (happy vw bunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *happy vw bunny* »_I tried to purchase tranny and engine mounts from VF and they were listed as for the 2.5 rabbit. But when we received them, they were actually for the GTI and did not fit. 

Hope you got your money back.


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: (NaKoRuRu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NaKoRuRu* »_
Hope you got your money back.









Oh yeah sure. VF is an awesome supplier. The president is a very nice guy. He is very helpful and professional. No problems there.


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## NaKoRuRu (Jun 5, 2005)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (NaKoRuRu)*

a custom one off kit can make more power but will cost more. A LOT more...andre knows that.your build would be a $15K total installed and tuned... that won't sell. a $4K kit that has a 60% increase will sell. and thats the point here. if C2 wanted to make killer one off hp kits, they could..but they are a production performace company, not a single person with one car to beat the world.
isn't it funny that people rip on C2 and thier kit but yet no one else has made a kit that has worked(other then a one off thing)?! i give them props for that
also i personlly know the kit is quick, fun, sounds great, good ideas, runs smooth becasue i have one now an within the last 2 weeks drove it 1100 miles...rain, hail, chighways, beach area, hot cold, manhatten down town, traffic jams on the LIExpressway etc...not hicups or gliches... proven to me
and i'm sure at some point C2 will be looking into a stg3 setup for the 2.5L to pull more power and be safe doing it...

_Modified by nothing-leaves-stock at 1:10 PM 8-4-2008_


_Modified by nothing-leaves-stock at 5:11 PM 8-4-2008_


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_
isn't it funny that people rip on C2 and thier kit but yet no one else has made a kit that has worked(other then a one off thing)?! i give them props for that
also i personlly know the kit is quick, fun, sounds great, good ideas, runs smooth becasue i have one now an within the last 2 weeks drove it 1100 miles...rain, hail, chighways, beach area, hot cold, manhatten down town, traffic jams on the LIExpressway etc...not hicups or gliches... proven to me
and i'm sure at some point C2 will be looking into a stg3 setup for the 2.5L to pull more power and be safe doing it...



Yeah Josh...I know you've seen this C2 Kit before....You INSTALLED IT!!

Take a good look at the cracks in the welds. How long did it take for the welds it FAIL???????? Less than a month.
No "hicups or gliches"??? My check engine light is on 24/7. I VAG COM it, turn it off, drive the car, and the CEL comes right back.
Does not seem to be reliable to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And when is C2 going to fix this problem for me?????????????


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## elitist (Apr 18, 2006)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*

The more bold, the more !!!!!! and ???? and !!1!!11!!!!1111 the more mature you sound. Its the Vortex way.


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_
your problem IS being dealt with as we type and you know that.
C2 is fixing that design as we type. 
also..yes i installed kits, but i also have been driving one for a over 1100 miles now as a personal car. that one does not have a manifold crack as yours does. and it has no CEL and no problem. nor do many others...thus i state facts- no hicups or gliches while i have the car.
jay, you must relax, not invade all threads and solve your problems off the boards, out of people threads as they are being dealt with right now by C2. you know this... yet you must still must state your case.



No, I don't know what's being done on this issue. Chris has not give me an answer and there has been No resolution to my issues. I'm still waiting on Chris.
You should explain it to me why I should take it off the boards?? I personally believe that if a person has good or bad things to say about a company, all should be said. Why is it, that companies only want to see the "good" posted about them????
Why should the consumers ONLY hear of the "good" and Not the "BAD"???



_Modified by Mein_GTI at 6:02 PM 8-4-2008_


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*

my honest opinion is not that they should have went as crazy as andre, but they could have made a much much better choice in turbo, power (reliability will still be their way into the 300's), injector size, etc...i have no problem with them building a 4k kit that will sell but i think they could make more power for the same price http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I have no issues with the power of the kit. The issues that I'm having is with the reliability of the kit and the customer service.


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

By the way, if c2 is watching this thread, a FMIC with 2.5" piping measuring18x8x3 fixes the CEL problems completely. Just thought everyone might like to know that.
I had the CEL problem since May and once I installed the FMIC and deleted the codes, they have not yet come back. With the side mount, I could delete the CELs all day long and they would come back a couple hours later. But not any more.


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (burntbunny)*

What CEL's is your car throwing?


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*

Throttle Body Signal low, MAF signal low, etc.


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

but none anymore


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (burntbunny)*

sounds like their was a leak somewhere, c2 kit or not c2 kit related and the intercooler fixed whatever leak their was


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (burntbunny)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burntbunny* »_Throttle Body Signal low, MAF signal low, etc. 


We had some of the same codes as you but more of them. Jeff from C2 was able to "fix" some of those problems by raising the idle. However, there are still more software issues to be addressed.


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## xanadu (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mein_GTI* »_
Does not seem to be reliable to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And when is C2 going to fix this problem for me?????????????

Well, when you overboost your car and blow up all 5 cylinders







it won't be all that reliable.









_Quote, originally posted by *Mein_GTI* »_I have no issues with the power of the kit. The issues that I'm having is with the reliability of the kit and the customer service.

The customer service will never get better for you IMO. Word travels fast and from what I hear you are belligerent and like to belittle your wife in front of others. Doesn't make people want to help you even a little bit. 
Good things happen to good people and....
Well, you get the picture.


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## burntbunny (May 16, 2008)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*

Yeah, there were 12 error codes in all, but I have none now. And I didn't have to raise the idle. Car runs and idles better with FMIC as well. I may have lost horsepower with it, but 277tq on 8lbs of boost instead of 8.5-9lbs means that I wont overboost my motor.


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mein_GTI* »_

Yeah Josh...I know you've seen this C2 Kit before....You INSTALLED IT!!

Take a good look at the cracks in the welds. How long did it take for the welds it FAIL???????? Less than a month.
No "hicups or gliches"??? My check engine light is on 24/7. I VAG COM it, turn it off, drive the car, and the CEL comes right back.
Does not seem to be reliable to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And when is C2 going to fix this problem for me?????????????


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (xanadu)*

Word may travel fast, but it's very wrong. To set the record straight, I am belligerent. I beat the wife. Belittle the kids. Kick the Dog, and don't care what you think. What Red Neck doesn't?


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## foolclear (Jun 27, 2008)

take it easy


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mein_GTI* »_

Yeah Josh...I know you've seen this C2 Kit before....You INSTALLED IT!!

Take a good look at the cracks in the welds. How long did it take for the welds it FAIL???????? Less than a month.
No "hicups or gliches"??? My check engine light is on 24/7. I VAG COM it, turn it off, drive the car, and the CEL comes right back.
Does not seem to be reliable to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And when is C2 going to fix this problem for me?????????????



















They are testing a revised exhaust manifold on mine so yest they are addressing this issue. Only problem I've really had is rough idle and a CEL resulting from the rough idle, I've put 700 miles on my car in the past 3 days and it was 95 and humid here today. The rough idle and errant misfire CEL is getting worked out in the next software revision and c2 is about to have flashload capability making the update make more sense. I am extremely satisfied with my kit and BVA motorsports install job. Once we get that little idle quirk worked through which might happen when I get new plugs since I was driving around on a plugged cat prior to the install I'd say its perfect. Well I guess I do need to add a little heat shielding around my ABS unit but thats really about it


_Modified by BlackRabbit2point5 at 10:10 PM 8-5-2008_


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## Stroked1.8t (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (nascent)*

so how is driveability with this kit? Does it drive like stock off boost?


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## esp (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*

Seriously Mein_GTI, stop trolling in every C2 thread that exists. You come in complaining about your issues...well, WE are aware of your problems because you bring them up so much







. Stop acting like you're 12 years old and grabbing the attention of every thread you're in, give it a rest and take it up over the phone or in person. Stop making it a forum issue.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (esp)*

he can "troll" every thread, if he had a good experience posting it in every thread c2 would be praising him but since it does them no good it's the complete opposite feeling, everyone has a right to here what he has to say


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## esp (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I don't see anyone in C2 criticizing him in this thread?







What are you talking about...


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (esp)*

you told him to stop trolling every thread, he has a right to be in here along with his pictures of his garbage turbo kit, look at that thing, must be quality


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i'll say one thing and thats all...
EVERY car manufacter makes a car, advertises it, builts it and then sells it, then it has MULTIPLE bulletins, campaigns or recalls to fix, update, change or provide a better design shortly after the release of the produce......yet people still buy new cars and don't complain as much. 

C2 knows the issue and is taking care of it.


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_i'll say one thing and thats all...
EVERY car manufacter makes a car, advertises it, builts it and then sells it, then it has MULTIPLE bulletins, campaigns or recalls to fix, update, change or provide a better design shortly after the release of the produce......yet people still buy new cars and don't complain as much. 

C2 knows the issue and is taking care of it. 

You guys are seriously testing my self control.


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: (Stroked1.8t)*

yeah it drives like stock off boost. its way easier to drive then GIAC 92 OCT and if you have a really aggressive exhaust like me the turbo shuts it up good. I've got the c2 dp going into a techtonics high flow cat to a single magnaflow muffler out a resonated tip and its no drone but sounds amazing when you put your foot into it but it never really gets loud


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_he can "troll" every thread, if he had a good experience posting it in every thread c2 would be praising him but since it does them no good it's the complete opposite feeling, everyone has a right to here what he has to say

from what I've heard just about every issue that isn't software related with this kit has been installer error. I've also heard happy bunny's issue one issue was due to the engine being pushed around after a wreck. Anyways the exhaust manifold was presorted on my car and you guys should be getting updated ones 


_Modified by BlackRabbit2point5 at 2:02 PM 8-6-2008_


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (BlackRabbit2point5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlackRabbit2point5* »_
from what I've heard just about every issue that isn't software related with this kit has been installer error. I've also heard happy bunny's issue one issue was due to the engine being pushed around after a wreck. Anyways the exhaust manifold was presorted on my car and you guys should be getting updated ones 




Happy bunny's issue Was NOT due to the engine being pushed around after a wreck. First, the VW body shop ensured the car WAS in factory specs. I have the print outs. Anyway, should 1/8-1/4 inch different in engine placement (right to left, not up or down) have made a difference? 
If that really was the case, then the installer, Nothing Leaves Stock, A "Proud to be a Authorized C2Motorsports Installer/dealer", should have made adjustments for that.


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (nothing-leaves-stock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nothing-leaves-stock* »_i'll say one thing and thats all...
EVERY car manufacter makes a car, advertises it, builts it and then sells it, then it has MULTIPLE bulletins, campaigns or recalls to fix, update, change or provide a better design shortly after the release of the produce......yet people still buy new cars and don't complain as much. 

C2 knows the issue and is taking care of it. 

So Josh, as an Authorized C2Motorsports Installer/dealer, what you're telling me is that I should expect a recall notice from C2 dealing with the exhaust manifold issues/cracks?
You are correct that people don't complain as much. With a factory recall, All parts and labor are warranteed / covered by the manufacturer. So far, in my case with the exhaust manifold only, C2 is working outside the norm of their warranty procedures. 



_Modified by Mein_GTI at 6:09 PM 8-6-2008_


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## xanadu (Jun 12, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Mein, 
Is your profile correct? Because I just can't believe that a 45 year old would bitch and complain as much as you.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (xanadu)*


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (xanadu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xanadu* »_Mein, 
Is your profile correct? Because I just can't believe that a 45 year old would bitch and complain as much as you. 

Xanadu??? Wasn't that a gay movie back in the 80's with Olivia Newton John???
What the **** do you care? Do you have a personal stake in this situation? Otherwise, I don't see why it would bother you what he wrote. If you are tired of hearing about it, dont read it! According to your profile, you are 74. Why would a gay 74 year old care about what somebody posts on a vortex thread???


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (happy vw bunny)*

<------- just hit the ground laughing at happy vw bunny


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_<------- just hit the ground laughing at happy vw bunny









I found it, here it is!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m1UWSD-FaA


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (xanadu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xanadu* »_Mein, 
Is your profile correct? Because I just can't believe that a 45 year old would bitch and complain as much as you. 


So, what part of.... "I don't care what you think".....did you NOT understand the first time? It's not a hard concept to understand. But then again, you’re not a Drag Coefficient expert…..oh, sorry, that’s Jet Propulsion Engineer to you. And people say ******** ain’t the sharpest tools in the shed.


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## VR6DPLMT. (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Mein_GTI)*

On a bit of a different yet related subject how many 12v and 24v VR6T's don't run a CEL? How many 12v and 24v VR6T's have issues after they are installed? Even after a more than 6-8yrs of decent turbo kits being sold for the VR6(not including EIP as well it speaks for itself)what company has proven to be the most reliable programming and kit? C2 Does the software for Kinetics turbo kits and they also sell their own turbo kits for the 12v and 24v VR6. Yes some of the times when these kits are installed they do have some kinks to work out but compared to EIP's kits and a few others the kinds of kinks that C2 has are nothing compared to previous mentioned kits. 
The 2.5L engine is a relatively new engine am I correct? 3-4yrs old I believe. C2 Is the only company to get one working and yes there are still some issues but alas cars aren't blowing up nor are tranny's being shredded. So Mein has some issues with his GTI ok well that will get fixed however the car still runs well and yes your complaints will be addressed. Complain all you want about C2 Motor Sports but they have been very good to the VW community these last 5-6yrs and will continue being good and putting out great kits. 
Techtonics had a bad run of valve springs a few years ago. Techtonics is still a very reputable name. I will continue to buy their products as well as most of you on this board. Why? TT has been in business for 25yrs making great more reliable than OEM products for VW's but even they make mistakes. C2 Will continue to be in business that long and you know what they are going to make mistakes too b/c being perfect is just so painfully boring. Mistakes are going to be made the difference is in correcting those mistakes. C2 is in this business for the long haul and will continue to improve their products as will other reliable VW aftermarket companies.


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## Mein_GTI (Sep 25, 2007)

*Re: (xanadu)*

So you must love the movie Brokeback Mountain?


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## skyrolla89 (Nov 16, 2007)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*

I don't think the number gains are that bad. Its the price that really makes the kit look bad. If it was like $3000, i dont think people would be complaining.


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## esp (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (Mein_GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mein_GTI* »_So you must love the movie Brokeback Mountain?

you really need to calm down


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## sl33pyb (Jan 15, 2007)

hey that was a good movie... gay shmay...were talking about how the c2 kit and its weak stage 2 numbers.


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## happy vw bunny (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: (xanadu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xanadu* »_ Now get over your little Rabbit turbo car - please.











I think that your response is perfect. It speaks volumes. I have nothing more to say regarding any of your bashings or rantings as the source has just been revealed....
Thanks!


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## BlackRabbit2point5 (Sep 6, 2007)

so after 1,600mi and 2 weeks of adaptation no more CEL and everything is running strong, just added some extra heat shielding to my ABS unit as well, about to do some header wrap on the manifold and DP next weekend. Heat shielding the crap out of your A/C lines, and ABS unit is something I'd highly recommend with the C2 kit


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: C2 Stage 2 Real Horsepower Numbers (burntbunny)*

Lots of bashing in this thread....
I think it's time to put this to an end. http://****************.com/default/zero2/lock5.gif


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