# N/A 2.0l aba



## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

how can i get a aba up to 130hp without turbocharging it


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Tie 130 thoroughbred mares to it.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Jay-Bee)*

Yes. 130 crank HP is no problem. 130WHP is doable as well. Just keep in mind, you will have to increase the engines potential to breath in the upper RPM's, and some of that will potentially become a trade off for low end performance.
Short Runner Intake
270 Cam or better
Ported OBD1 head
Header
Test Pipe
2.25-2.5" catback
Prom to account for all of this.
I would also suggest a Lightweight or Underdrive pulley, and a light weight flywheel. Do a stage 2 clutch while you are in there.
It should put you in the ballpark of 115-120 ft/lbs wheel torque, and 120-135 wheel horsepower.
See the naturally aspirated forums for dyno's. That's where I'm gathering this information from.


_Modified by godoveryou at 12:22 PM 12-4-2008_


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (krazykolour)*


_Quote, originally posted by *krazykolour* »_how can i get a aba up to 130hp without turbocharging it









Money. Lots of money.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Money. Lots of money.

Trust Tdogg on that, He would know






















I've spent $700 in November on parts alone chasing about the same goal of 130WHP Pre-FI. The fact is, performance costs money.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
Money. Lots of money.

Air flow. Quality head work is key....and that costs







.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (tdogg74)*

Isn't that the truth. Head work is where power is made or lost. Typically lost by over ambitious port work killing velocity, or not enough in the important areas limiting flow. I'm pretty confident in my own work, but I'm sure your head flows much better due to the experience of the porter with specific VW heads.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

























and one of these


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## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

wow this is certainly soon great info, guest i need to start writing a list.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (krazykolour)*

Looking at your intake ports, it looks like they were polished by the laborer. It also looks like the guides were removed during the port work....
(I'm taking notes







)
Didn't happen to get a CC measurement on the ports, or measure to port opening did you?


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## MkIIIJetta94 (Aug 4, 2007)

*Re: (godoveryou)*

NAPA's machine shops do good P&P, decking, Valve jobs. If you can find one that is. It cost me $400 to have the head hot tanked, P&P, decked .004" and to have a 3 angle valve job done. 
I have a 268 cam with chip ($230 I believe), Adj. cam gear ($70), ODBI head ($65), TT valve springs ($120), MKIV intake ($100 but can be found way cheaper), MKIV header ($80) and 2.5" exhaust ($350).

All together that's $1415. Most of those are new prices so they can be found cheaper. I still need to do trans work and a bigger cam, but right now it hauls rump.
Money son, money.


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## reynolds9000 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (MkIIIJetta94)*

You can try to find a head that has already been ported and save a little money that way. They occassionally pop up in the classifieds.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

I know where you can get a complete solid lifter VW Formula head for $600. 
Those ****ers are good for 200hp with the right bottom end.


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## reynolds9000 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

Damn that's a good deal.. You can run a SERIOUS cam with solid lifters.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (reynolds9000)*

15.1 CR and C16


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (wantacad)*

I have yet to run a solid lifters in any of my builds, domestic V8's included. They are phenomenal but I just don't like building engines that need servicing like that on a regular basis. Since there are no rocker arms, etc associated with pushrod designed valve trains maybe they aren't as maintenance intensive for OHC engines but i honestly don't know.
Any way to convert that head to Hydro? I'm more interested in the ports than anything.


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## MkIIIJetta94 (Aug 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (godoveryou)*

What are the benefits of solid lifters? I know a lot of drag vw's use them but never really knew why.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (MkIIIJetta94)*

When a lobe lifts aggressively, it can deflate a hydro lifter not providing the true lift of the cam. Secondly, solid lifters can be machined to provide additional clearance in tight spaces if required. At high sustained RPM's, Hydro lifters can separate and basically grenade in your valve train. Any way you slice it, when all out performance is on the line, the solid lifter is the way to go. 
However, I know in OHV applications, you need to do lash adjustments to the rocker arms often. The cam lobes typically have shorter lives, and the valve springs need to be of unquestionable quality. I'm a little new to the block with OHC solid lifters, so I'm not the guy to ask. My Honda build used hydro lifters and those are the only OHC engines I have serious performance experience with. I'm getting my feet wet in VW land with the ABA build I'm currently in the middle of.


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## MkIIIJetta94 (Aug 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (godoveryou)*


_Quote, originally posted by *godoveryou* »_When a lobe lifts aggressively, it can deflate a hydro lifter not providing the true lift of the cam. Secondly, solid lifters can be machined to provide additional clearance in tight spaces if required. At high sustained RPM's, Hydro lifters can separate and basically grenade in your valve train. Any way you slice it, when all out performance is on the line, the solid lifter is the way to go. 
However, I know in OHV applications, you need to do lash adjustments to the rocker arms often. The cam lobes typically have shorter lives, and the valve springs need to be of unquestionable quality. I'm a little new to the block with OHC solid lifters, so I'm not the guy to ask. My Honda build used hydro lifters and those are the only OHC engines I have serious performance experience with. I'm getting my feet wet in VW land with the ABA build I'm currently in the middle of.

Same here with the build. I need to get up on my solid lifter lingo, haha. That makes sense though that the hydro would deflate. Thanks.


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## ghoastoflyle (Jan 21, 2003)

Who's porting these days?
porttuning still mia?
I guess TM tuning still is, but same missing info's
been on their site for at least a year now. Curious about the stages... Shipping the Germany's gotta be pretty steep too.
Anyone else?
(edit) just called porttuning, spoke w/ Jose. 
Still doing porting on the side. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
my head's already been hot tanked
got a $400 quote


_Modified by ghoastoflyle at 10:29 AM 12-6-2008_


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## Mr.Pickles (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (ghoastoflyle)*

you dont need a short runner intake, get your OEM manifold ported slightly and you will keep low end torque, an sri is not worth it for the minimal amount of power you gain from it.
tdogg what is the reason for not going undercut on your valve guides??


_Modified by Mr.Pickles at 8:27 PM 12-5-2008_


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (Mr.Pickles)*

Ummmmm not sure if I agree with that. The manifold is horribly long and positioned to be maybe the most perfect heat sink I've seen in a long time. There is a post float around in which the USRT manifold found something like 21 horsepower over stock. 
I think that needs to be re-thought Mr. Pickles.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (godoveryou)*

Short runner....








But you are correct, it total kills the low end....








Guess that's not true either. The runner's of the stock intake aren't long enough to create a low rpm valve timing event. I've spent years with tuned intakes.... this intake was designed for packaging not power, trust me.


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (krazykolour)*

The aba 2.0L is already rated 115hp.
To get to 130, you can probably make it with a chip, exhaust, and a camshaft.


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (germancarnut51)*


_Quote, originally posted by *germancarnut51* »_The aba 2.0L is already rated 115hp.
To get to 130, you can probably make it with a chip, exhaust, and a camshaft.

Yes, if you are talking crank HP, you'd be hard pressed to be putting down 105whp with those 3 mods.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (germancarnut51)*


_Quote, originally posted by *germancarnut51* »_The aba 2.0L is already rated 115hp.
To get to 130, you can probably make it with a chip, exhaust, and a camshaft.

Nobody thought of that until you just said it...


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (Mr.Pickles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Pickles* »_you dont need a short runner intake, get your OEM manifold ported slightly and you will keep low end torque, an *sri is not worth it for the minimal amount of power you gain from it.*
tdogg what is the reason for not going undercut on your valve guides??

Minimal gain? Show me one N/A mod that nets over 15WHP ANYWHERE on the rpm band other than an SRI. You will never get the top end gain porting the stock manifold. It's runner length is tuned for low end torque, not top end horsepower. It's all about when the harmonic wave hits the intake valve.....


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Jay-Bee)*

The OP Never specified Wheel or Crankshaft HP. He simply asked about getting to 130hp. 
Seems like a lot of people are ASSUMING WHP.
I agree with the thought that getting to 130 WHP (about 165 HP at the crankshaft) will take much more drastic steps than simple bolt-ons can supply.
BUT if the OP was referring to 130 HP at the crank, his goal can be met by bolt-ons, and I was trying to point that out. 


_Modified by germancarnut51 at 10:42 AM 12-6-2008_


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## Mr.Pickles (May 2, 2006)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (germancarnut51)*

its not 15whp stock, i know the original dyno graph from usrt clearly stated that the dyno run was a combination of cam and cam gear put to -4 degrees, $500 for an sri where you loose low end torque and isnt being used on a "race" engine is not worth it, tdogg you talked about loosing low end torque with a ported throttle body, what about the loss with an sri. 
the oem manifold was made for torque, if ported out or even just smoothed runners it will gain power in the top end with minimal loss of torque down low. 
almost positive that 130hp in his car not going to be a "race" engine so he doesnt need it to get there.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

MY USRT dyno was done at 0*, NOT -4*. The gains are legit...even on a stock ABA. And my set-up was a non-ported OBDII head, TT cookie-cutter chip, ESS 262* cam and a TT cat-back. And the dyno showed 1wtq loss with the SRI over the stock manifold, BUT...and this is a huge but....when I dyno'd, the ECU had NO time to properly adjust to the SRI's tested. I can garentee the SRI's yielded more hp than tested due to not being able to adjust.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*

N/M my reply is out of character..... let's just say.... the SRI is the only PROVEN way to go. I'll write an article on intake resonance and valve timing events to better address how wrong the idea is that you can just port the OEM intake and change much of anything besides total airflow at a given RPM up to the point of whats known as wave collapse in between points of resonance. Almost all intakes have 3 resonant engine speeds... oh **** it, I can't type it all out right now.... 


_Modified by godoveryou at 6:00 PM 12-6-2008_


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## Mr.Pickles (May 2, 2006)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (godoveryou)*

your dyno is done in response to supporting mods, reading as much as i have in relation to runner length and low end torque i dont not believe a 1hp loss. that is why you tdogg are now running an sri with considerably longer intake runners than the usrt sri. why would you do that? multiple threads on itbs say flat out there is a low end torque loss because of short runner length. the OEM manifold can be extrude honed and perform just as well as an sri. the only reason an sri performs well at high rpms is because it doesnt have rough runners. the usrt can barley be considered for harmonic tuning. wrap some heat resistant tape on it get it smoothed out and it will be less than the sri.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Pickles* »_your dyno is done in response to supporting mods, reading as much as i have in relation to runner length and low end torque i dont not believe a 1hp loss. that is why you tdogg are now running an sri with considerably longer intake runners than the usrt sri. w

WTF are you talking about dude?? ALL the USRT manifolds made were designed and fabricated by Greg Haley. The manfold Im running NOW has the same runner length as the one I tested back on 2005. 
And as for a STOCK set-up, the hp gains, while not as robust as with a modded motor, and still there. 
Here is THE dyno model that Scott used to post on his site. 








Know wtf you are talking about before posting sh*t, alright?


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Pickles* »_. the OEM manifold can be extrude honed and perform just as well as an sri. 

Please, stop. I'm asking nicely.


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## Mr.Pickles (May 2, 2006)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (godoveryou)*

yea im done tdizzle is getting mad and wouldnt know about a ported oem manifold because he has never tried it.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*

Post your dyno. 
Read my last post here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4151172 
You know nothing about how intakes work. It's obvious to everyone but yourself apparently. If you want to learn, shut your mouth and ask. You can't learn anything if you keep talking....
"It's better to be thought of as a fool than to......."
I'm not mad at you. I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but I've asked you once to stop and you refuse. If you want to talk about fluid dynamics and harmonic resonance I'm very willing to teach you some basic principles. If you just continue to talk talk talk.... well then apparently you know better than I.... or science.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Pickles* »_yea im done tdizzle is getting mad and wouldnt know about a ported oem manifold because he has never tried it.

you got it all wrong..I just dont waste my time with stock manifolds.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*









_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Pickles* »_ the OEM manifold can be extrude honed and perform just as well as an sri. the only reason an sri performs well at high rpms is because it doesnt have rough runners. the usrt can barley be considered for harmonic tuning. wrap some heat resistant tape on it get it smoothed out and it will be less than the sri.

Ok, I can throw this entire quote out he window based on the fact that the stock manifolds are tuned to hit at a lower rpm than a short runner manifold. And wtf is that bullsh*t about rough runners? 
Do me a favor and Google "wave harmonic tuning" and " Laminar air flow".


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## Mr.Pickles (May 2, 2006)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (tdogg74)*

i understand the jist of wave harmonic tuning. tuning a intake to hit a "supercharger"(not an actual supercharger but an increased volumetric efficiency) affect between specific rpm range. rough runners are meant by not a smooth ruuner, on the inside of the intake manifold, like it was cast or something crazy from a factory that mass produces something.
harmonic tuning is most commonly used on racing engines...not your daily driven car.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr.Pickles* »_
harmonic tuning is most commonly used on racing engines...not your daily driven car.

[edit] yelling yelling yelling, you are worthless, yelling yelling.








_Modified by godoveryou at 9:45 PM 12-6-2008_


_Modified by godoveryou at 8:59 AM 12-7-2008_


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (godoveryou)*

.....okay your right, I just need a hug


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (godoveryou)*

[edit] More anger.


_Modified by godoveryou at 8:59 AM 12-7-2008_


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## Mr.Pickles (May 2, 2006)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (godoveryou)*

settle down hombre this isnt worth a stress attack, its just the internet, in a forum... so i didnt know something, your saying it like its common knowledge, i didnt say i knew everything, just the basic jist of harmonc tuning, im farely certain not every engine uses harmonic tuning, yes the higher performing ones due but not all. sorry i made an assumption that it would cost a fair amount to do that.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: N/A 2.0l aba (Mr.Pickles)*

My post was more of a joke. It's amazing that it took that for you to admit you didn't know what you were talking about.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

lmfao.


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## mostoftheABA (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_lmfao.



^ this dick pulls those tricks too..


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (mostoftheABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mostoftheABA* »_^ this dick pulls those tricks too..

That "Dick" happened to be absolutely correct in what he was saying. Please don't place blame for my post on Tdogg. The fact of the matter is that the guy kept running his mouth with no information to back it up before completely shoving his foot and entire leg in his mouth. I missed where Tdogg was a "Dick." I saw where I was a "Dick." I did it on purpose to break up his continuation of misinformation. 2 years from now, had I not, a newbie might find this thread in a search and actually trust what Pickles was saying. Now there is no question, Pickles was wrong.
I was a "Dick" for the good of the board. Maybe Tdogg does similar things? I don't see them here though, so if you are going to point a finger, I'm right here and willing to here your complaint.


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## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (godoveryou)*


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## mostoftheABA (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (wantacad)*

haha i got some bs started...
the way one conducts him/herself makes who the are so either way we know who is a dick...


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (mostoftheABA)*

"who the are?"


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (mostoftheABA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mostoftheABA* »_

^ this dick pulls those tricks too..

sorry...I missed this...why am I a dick?


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## bulldogger72 (Mar 16, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (godoveryou)*

130 whp na? been there done that some 6+ years ago
sri
TT 288 cam and custom software from colin
4-2-1 header to 2.25 exhaust ( no cat, 2 glasspacks)

i think some in this forum need to read more, type less.
there are many who have gone before them, and know what works-and what does not. learn from others hard work, and think outside the box.


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## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (bulldogger72)*

i love the 288 in my rabbit,i dont think it will be to friendly in my turbo 2.0 with ac,but will see what happens


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*

The idea of daily driving a cam that large in an engine that small just seems.... creepy and really not so much fun


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Its not much fun at all.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_Its not much fun at all. 


liar lol


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

It's been out of my motor since September. It _sucks_ to daily. What's the use of power after 4000rpms in bumper to bumper traffic?


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

I was joking. I kinda figured that DD a 288 would be a nightmere. I'm concerned with the 276, and honestly between that and FI - I went with the 270 just for those very concerns. Once I got full bore FI, I will probably do so with a new OBD1 core and a hyper-aggressive port job (AKA, **** velocity) and a 270 cam. But as an "Inbetween step" I'm using a very cleaned up OBD1 casting with special attention on the short side radius and a 270. The more I see the short side radius, the more I don't like it. 
I've been in a Neon with a NA 420A and a set of crane 16's I think, and it was no fun at all unless we were on the highway. Idling is one area where some extra displacement is always oh, so nice.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

The 270 wont do you wrong. If you werent going FI, you should have gone 276. BEST N/A cam for the ABA all around. But the 270 is fine for either.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (tdogg74)*

Yeah, like I said in that PM a few days ago, overlap was the ultimate factor for me.


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## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

dam this is some great info i obtained from u guys. thnx to y'all i put together a list of things i pplan to get. stage 2 clutch, 8 pound flywheel, lightened pulley kit, 276 cam an adjustable cam gear,port n polish job, an toyota itbs and a 4-2-1 header with 2.25" exhaust. tell me if i'm on the right track or if i missed any thing. have anyone put itbs on an aba before, an if so any pics available?


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (krazykolour)*


_Quote, originally posted by *krazykolour* »_ toyota itbs 

That's pretty ambitious. Going carb, or are you going to build a plenum for them so you can possibly still use them for EFI?


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## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

o sorry i forgot to add by the time i put on the itbs i'll be using megasquirt2


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (krazykolour)*

Are you doing it to be unique? If not, you might find that a de-tuned SRI works just as well for your needs and makes the engine management easier to sort out.


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## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

were on the web can i find a sri?


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (krazykolour)*

USRT carries them, or soon will be re-releasing them.
Tdogg bought his off a member here and it looks GREAT!!!
I'm building my own, for the win


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (godoveryou)*

I sent Tdogg a PM for you. Hopefully he will swing by and get you the name of the guy that made his. It really does look outstanding.


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## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

do u have a pic so i can see wat it looks like ?


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (krazykolour)*

I'll have to search Tdogg's post to try to find one....


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## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

ok thnx


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (krazykolour)*

Pic in this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3997159
He has much better pictures posted elsewhere.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (krazykolour)*


_Quote, originally posted by *krazykolour* »_were on the web can i find a sri?


send bulldogger72 a private message. he will fab you whatever you need.


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## godoveryou (Apr 1, 2007)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

At some point I'll remember that name....


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## krazykolour (May 15, 2008)

dam that setup looks wicked. l like it


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