# MAP sensor upgrade?



## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

I have a stage 2 file on my 2005 GLI and would like to get rid of the 22 psi boost limit. Does anyone know what MAP sensor I can use in place of my stock one to do this? 

Cheers :beer:


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

Keeping in mind that i don't know that tune, 

The big turbo files ( that use the Stock MAP ) go well over 22PSI with no issues. 

What limit are you talking about? Limp?


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

You can crank the wastegate, but that may set off limp mode. You can run a diode/MBC and set the boost to whatever you'd like. You're basically putting out lava at those levels anyway.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

The Euro TDI MAP goes higher, I've asked Arnold about them but no one has written a tune with/for one. You have to wonder if there is a difference...


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## screwball (Dec 11, 2001)

OP, If you want more power get a W/M setup so you can add more timing.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Hey guys, thanks for the input. I'll elaborate a bit on my setup... 

I was told by Unitronic that 22psi is the max that my particular ECU (05'GLI) will accept. This does explain why when I program in higher boost the comp knocks it down to 22... the original stage 2 file was written at 20psi. I don't go into limp mode at all thankfully :thumbup: 

I've also got a VAST meth kit with a #4 nozzle placed about 6" before the TB and that helped the power and temps quite a bit once I added more fuel and timing. I do plan to add another smaller nozzle soon but not quite yet  

Cranking the wastgate a bit is ok with me but I do want to avoid the diode and manual boost control valve as a lot of people can't get it to work properly, or at all, on my car and I also don't want to sacrifice part-throttle boost. 

Agreed about the Euro TDI MAP's - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=298404 

I believe the sensor for the Mk4 1.8T's are 2.5 bar and from what I've read, sensors aren't that accurate when they're operating at their limit. 

So to operate and perform better I'll like to source a local 3bar MAP if anyone knows where to find one or knows the part# at a VW or Audi dealership?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Its really interesting with the TDI MAP sensors going up to 4BAR. 

I am surprised most of the tuners don't have you switch to one of these. How different can the MAP sensors output to the ECM be? Its gotta be pretty similar. 

I wonder what would happen with the MAPS on the ECU if suddenly it saw of 22psi ? 

Interesting thought.


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## AmIdYfReAk (Nov 8, 2006)

interesting, though, i don't think its needed. 

At least on a wind band car, Same as running megasquirt on a boosted car with a 1.5bar map once you go over the boost level it Looks at the fuel table and confirms with the o/2. 

That would be why guys are hitting 30+ Psi with stock ECU/map.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

i think this would be very beneficial to BT guys running a mafless tune. Since the ECU is only looking at the manifold boost pressure, and the exhaust gases. i think it it would give means for a better tune. 

also, honda guys are always switching to 3 or 4 bar maps, jus sayin


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

IMO, it's got to do with the way ME7x uses the MAP sensor. It's part of the fueling equation, but not all of it. To swap MAP sensor would involve a LOT of very tedious remapping and rescaling.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

I havent personally looked or ripped the maps off my ecu but do they just end at the 22psi mark and then default to WOT?


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

malone has a 3bar for 80 bucks./ 

diode it. swap a diode with a blown "glows when it blows" fuse from advance auto, it will clamp the map at 1420 max mbar. 5 bucks and 5 minuets, done,


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

hodfolly said:


> malone has a 3bar for 80 bucks./
> 
> diode it. swap a diode with a blown "glows when it blows" fuse from advance auto, it will clamp the map at 1420 max mbar. 5 bucks and 5 minuets, done,


 
What are we going to gain from doing this ? 1420mbar is only 21psi.


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

no, 1420 measured, is only 420 mbar above atmospheric pressure.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

true true, but what does the ecu do with it anyways.


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

clamping the map from 1000 mbar to 1420 mbar will alow you to run a real good boost level. the ecu will want to add boost because its only seeing 5 psi. so you adapt the engine up the longer you drive it, and you won't hit limp mode because of a boost limit. 
tie that with rerouting your n75 pressure line from the charge pipe to T ing it off the DV vacc line. 

zoom, zoom. easy 300wtq on a k03 with just a 93 tune.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm not 100% familiar with the ME7x torque model, but I would assume that once the MAP is maxed out, it uses that value in combination with the airflow map from the MAF, the RPM, throttle position, and pedal position to achieve the proper fuel value. It's a fairly safe redundant-style system, if one thing fails, the rest take up the slack. Clamping the MAP isn't a great way of doing it, but it does work, from what I see.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

All_Euro said:


> I have a stage 2 file on my 2005 GLI and would like to get rid of the 22 psi boost limit. Does anyone know what MAP sensor I can use in place of my stock one to do this?
> 
> Cheers :beer:


 There is no point. You are SO FAR out of the effciency range its not funny. Even with your WMI its not going to make a difference. Its a torque spike anyway, your not going to hold that to redline its still going to taper way off, the turbo isn't cabable of breathing that much at high RPM. Tinker away if all your looking for is more wheel spin when the turbo spools.


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

thats correct. and don't forget, when your in wot, the ecu only uses the map to adjust throttle angle and limit boost and torque curve. by tricking the ecu, you increase throttle responce 120%. and rerouting your n75 will add alot more boost and throttle responce with a factory n75 feel and saftey. its realy that easy. and if you need more, you can now adjust your wastegate up to your torque monitor 2 limit.


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

i should also mention i can power spin my wheels in 4th gear at 65mph when it rains with asr off. its all about tq,


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

> [hodfolly;69293922]malone has a 3bar for 80 bucks.


 Thanks, I've sent them an email to see if they have one that will fit my car :thumbup: 



> There is no point. You are SO FAR out of the effciency range its not funny. Even with your WMI its not going to make a difference. Its a torque spike anyway, your not going to hold that to redline its still going to taper way off, the turbo isn't cabable of breathing that much at high RPM. Tinker away if all your looking for is more wheel spin when the turbo spools.


 Agreed on being out of the efficiency range but I do have a plan for that once I'm able to overcome this 22psi limit... and if this tubo blows I'll upgrade to one that will handle 24+psi so it will come in handy then too. Speaking of wheel spin, that was a problem already when I was on the dyno... will try again with better tires next summer/fall


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

""turbo isn't cabable of breathing that much at high RPM"" 

wanna bet. the k03 has been used on alot of engines, and which some are flowing over 240 g/s. look at the audi/vw newer tech for examples. and look at what tuners like apr are doing with the 2.0t fsi 
k03/k04.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

hodfolly said:


> malone has a 3bar for 80 bucks.


 Got a reply from Malone already... " _*I sell them for $59 shipped to US or Canada. The part # is 038906051C*_ "  So now I just want to be sure it'll fit since these Mk4's have 2 different sizes.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

the limit is the turbo plenty of us (maf and not maf) run over 22psi, the stock turbo just doesnt flow that much... 

upgrade to a bigger turbo and turn up the boost and roll out. if you dont want an ebc nor mbc when you go big turbo keep the N75, unitronics request like 10lbs over wastegate iirc so just adjust wg spring to what you want adding 10lbs for what itll request. 

stop trying to reinvent the wheel


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Pass18t said:


> Fueling runs off boost sensor signal only if MAF is out or unplugged. I changed to a Bosch 3 bar sensor to eliminate throttle cut from high boost. Same idea as a diode, but it works. Scaling difference means an understated signal at all boost levels but it's not enough of a difference from what the MAF is seeing to throw a deviation code. Won't get throttle cut until somewhere between 28 and 29 psi.





bobqzzi said:


> As I will be approaching those pressures, I would like have a MAP that reads BAR so it will be working more toward the middle of its range, as electronic sensors are always more accurate when used there.


 Unfortunately I don't have a wad of cash burning a hole in my pocket so turbo upgrades will have to wait. Any additional insight or help on how to adjust my tune with a 3.0 bar MAF will be appreciated :thumbup:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

does anyone have any more info on the TDI MAP sensor?


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Just this at the moment... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4252163-TDI-MAP-sensor-part&highlight=1.9+TDI+MAP+SENSOR


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

hodfolly said:


> ""turbo isn't cabable of breathing that much at high RPM""
> 
> wanna bet. the k03 has been used on alot of engines, and which some are flowing over 240 g/s. look at the audi/vw newer tech for examples. and look at what tuners like apr are doing with the 2.0t fsi
> k03/k04.


 
LOL okay, you show me a VAG OEM equipped k03 1.8t flowing anywhere remotely close to that. :screwy:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

240 g/*second* = 4 g/*minute* 

so you are saying that a ko3 (non s) flows 4 g/minute 

where as: 


a GTX30r flows just under 9 g/minute 

and a GT28 flows just over 5 g/m 

c'mon get foreal


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## Yosh_Cupra (Jun 28, 2008)

No chance K03 or K03S will flow 240g/s


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

hodfolly said:


> ""turbo isn't cabable of breathing that much at high RPM""
> 
> wanna bet. the k03 has been used on alot of engines, and which some are flowing over 240 g/s. look at the audi/vw newer tech for examples. and look at what tuners like apr are doing with the 2.0t fsi
> k03/k04.


 no the turbo will not flow that much uptop, i had EVERY bolt on possible for a ko3 car, + more fuel, more timing, cranked down to the bottom wastegate and a diode and still would not hold 22+ psi to readline. 



theswoleguy said:


> the limit is the turbo plenty of us (maf and not maf) run over 22psi, *the stock turbo just doesnt flow that much...*
> 
> upgrade to a bigger turbo and turn up the boost and roll out. if you dont want an ebc nor mbc when you go big turbo keep the N75, unitronics request like 10lbs over wastegate iirc so just adjust wg spring to what you want adding 10lbs for what itll request.
> 
> stop trying to reinvent the wheel





TooLFan46n2 said:


> LOL okay, you show me a VAG OEM equipped k03 1.8t flowing anywhere remotely close to that. :screwy:


 wont happen doesnt exist lol, the most i ever hit was a 28lb spike that quickly bled down to around 19-20 at most, the turbo would get so hot it literally would glow cherry red on hard runs. I dont mean like normal glow i mean that bitch would roast marshmellows from 5 feet away 



derekb727 said:


> 240 g/*second* = 4 g/*minute*
> 
> so you are saying that a ko3 (non s) flows 4 g/minute
> 
> ...


 x2 



Yosh_Cupra said:


> No chance K03 or K03S will flow 240g/s


 x3 

The only thing i could do to force more exhaust into the turbo would've been to weld the WG shut, my rod was already bottomed out. We wont even discuss the magma type air that would come out of that thing, i was on a HUGE intercooler, E85 and occasionally WM, the E85 and big intercooler was enough to cool it off though. I cant remember where but someone ran the numbers and had it plotted into a efficiency chart and my efficiency was like 4 inches to the right completely off the chart


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## Dan[FN]5857 (Oct 12, 2010)

this thread makes my brain hurt. why so janky?


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## hodfolly (Jun 15, 2010)

240 g/s is what me7 wants to see when ait temp is -40 to make 300whp at 12 psi on stocker. its all about the programing. 

here is a example of a k04 with ett on a 2.0t. over 300hp/tq. the turbo itself can flow that much, 
http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans_20_tsi_k04.html


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

hodfolly said:


> 240 g/s is what me7 wants to see when ait temp is -40 to make 300whp at 12 psi on stocker. its all about the programing.
> 
> here is a example of a k04 with ett on a 2.0t. over 300hp/tq. the turbo itself can flow that much,
> http://www.goapr.com/products/turbo_trans_20_tsi_k04.html


 different turbos.


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## laur_gti (Oct 27, 2007)

i use a tdi map,from 1.9tdi engine code ARL


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

laur_gti said:


> i use a tdi map,from 1.9tdi engine code ARL


 Is this a 3.0 bar MAP? How did it workout / what tuning adjustments were needed? 

Cheers


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Excellent service and turnaround time from Malone Tuning, esp for such a small order. Finally got around to installing the 3 bar MAP sensor today. Roads were pretty slick so the run I logged was brief... plus the alternator belt popped off on the hwy :facepalm:

Got another belt on just in time for the evening to set in so I'll log some runs tomorrow. Def need to add some fuel as quite a bit of timing was being pulled. Let me know if you've got any other advice or experience with this :beer:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

All_Euro said:


> Excellent service and turnaround time from Malone Tuning, esp for such a small order. Finally got around to installing the 3 bar MAP sensor today. Roads were pretty slick so the run I logged was brief... plus the alternator belt popped off on the hwy :facepalm:
> 
> Got another belt on just in time for the evening to set in so I'll log some runs tomorrow. Def need to add some fuel as quite a bit of timing was being pulled. Let me know if you've got any other advice or experience with this :beer:




you are running over 22psi correct?


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

derekb727 said:


> you are running over 22psi correct?


I've been running 22 psi for a couple months now and do plan on upping boost to 24psi. I haven't adjusted boost yet as I haven't logged enough info to really see what the affects are from upping the MAP from 2.5 bar to 3.0 bar. I plan to do some runs and tweak settings this afternoon.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

The new higher-comp DI 2.0 engines are a different animal compared to our port-injection 1.8, and the turbos are also different/improved over the normal 03s/001/02x K-series turbos (better design, integrated manifold and turbine housing). That is a complete apples-to-oranges, you're talking about a difference of 10+ years in tech terms and the 2.0 is better in stock/bolt-on form, whereas the 1.8 is better for BT projects (no the APR k04 is not a BT) since the fueling is never an issue. Maybe in a few years you'll see FSI mk4 swaps as the tech improves, but I doubt it. 

I've run my 02x at 24psi with full bolt-ons and tend to see timing pull, so I keep it at 20psi regularly; at this point it doesn't matter, the real issue (flow restriction) can be felt as soon as I hit 5500rpm, so more hot air isn't going to help. I blame the scrawny exhaust manifold, the 02x's is actually crappier than the k03 design, and the turbine is undersized as well :facepalm:

FYI if 22psi is the stock limit, that means the MAP is a 1.5bar unit, whereas the 3bar TDI is good for 43psi  Someone in the know really needs to chime in. Its sad id=27 had so many douchebags chase the knowledgable guys off, a few years ago this issue would have already been solved...


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

l88m22vette said:


> The new higher-comp DI 2.0 engines are a different animal compared to our port-injection 1.8, and the turbos are also different/improved over the normal 03s/001/02x K-series turbos (better design, integrated manifold and turbine housing). That is a complete apples-to-oranges, you're talking about a difference of 10+ years in tech terms and the 2.0 is better in stock/bolt-on form, whereas the 1.8 is better for BT projects (no the APR k04 is not a BT) since the fueling is never an issue. Maybe in a few years you'll see FSI mk4 swaps as the tech improves, but I doubt it.
> 
> I've run my 02x at 24psi with full bolt-ons and tend to see timing pull, so I keep it at 20psi regularly; at this point it doesn't matter, the real issue (flow restriction) can be felt as soon as I hit 5500rpm, so more hot air isn't going to help. I blame the scrawny exhaust manifold, the 02x's is actually crappier than the k03 design, and the turbine is undersized as well :facepalm:
> 
> FYI if 22psi is the stock limit, that means the MAP is a 1.5bar unit, whereas the 3bar TDI is good for 43psi  Someone in the know really needs to chime in. Its sad id=27 had so many douchebags chase the knowledgable guys off, a few years ago this issue would have already been solved...




so how would it work with a bt seutup where you would be running over 30psi?


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Theoretically it'd give you a better boost reading since at ~30psi you're running 2bar, or 66% duty on the sensor range, rather than having the OEM sensor maxed out and made essentially useless. Having another sensor reading can only help (if properly calibrated) since it refines the tune that much more. Even if its worth 10hp it might be an improvement across the board, and that's what the hobby is all about. 

Between this, VVT, and the number of strokers recently the 058/06A is far from a dead platform, let the naysayers buy other cars eace:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

i thought about this back when i first heard about the oem MAP being only 1.5bar. it seems to me that we have needed a upgraded map sensor. i think i need to email eurodyne and see what they have to say about this. see if there would be any support for it. or someone else can since i can't really do anything except ask questions. 

and even if it doesnt increase horsepower would be ok with me but if it increased reliability of the tune then to me that would be a bigger advantage. because running over 30psi is scary stuff.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback guys. Keep in mind that the MAP measures in absolute pressure so a 2.5 bar sensor will read about 22 psi + atmospheric pressure. The 3.0 bar MAP will read, depending on elevation, about 29-30 psi.

The challenge for me right now is to know how to compensate for the extra boost properly... since my ECU thinks I'm actually underboosting a bit. I noticed at idle that the actual boost is reading exactly 120 mbar under requested... have to see if this 3.0 bar MAP will be reading a difference based on a ratio or just XY bar below what's shown. Once I know that I'll know how much less boost to request so that I don't go above 24 psi.

I did see a Eurodyne topic about boosting above the MAP limit but I'm not sure if they write files for different MAP's or not... http://www.eurodyne.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=717



> l88m22vette
> 
> Between this, VVT, and the number of strokers recently the 058/06A is far from a dead platform, let the naysayers buy other cars eace:


Cheers to that :beer: Got my eye on the VVT thread also :thumbup: 

Just waiting for the battery in my laptop to recharge and I can log some runs.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Did your actual boost ever reach/maintain requested? Or stayed 120mbar negative offset?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Cheers to that :beer: Got my eye on the *VVT thread* also :thumbup: 

Just waiting for the battery in my laptop to recharge and I can log some runs.[/QUOTE]

link?


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

What is your actual goal?

1. To be able to run over ~22psi boost is easy on the stock MAP sensor.
Simply request more and the ecu will 'never' get there and thus drive the 
solenoid (to full duty) attempting to get there.
Turn off/push the over or under boost checks further out to never get boost control error, and the car will
drive fine.


2. To be able to 'control' more than 2550mb you need BIG code changes.
Control = full closed loop boost control

Change MAP sensor = easy. (you need to mod the MAP scale an offset)
One of the OEM data maps that limits boost is an 8bit map. 8bit max is 255 (dec), 0xFF
(Default on 1.8T 20v for this map is flat 0xFF already)
Map value = data *10, Thus max boost 'request' will always be limited to 2550mb.
To get around this requires some fairly major code mods, not simple data map mods.
THIS is why no 'big' map sensor tunes exist.

-Jeffrey Atwood
United Motorsport


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Jefnes3 said:


> What is your actual goal?
> 
> 1. To be able to run over ~22psi boost is easy on the stock MAP sensor.
> Simply request more and the ecu will 'never' get there and thus drive the
> ...


well that kinda killed the idea's steaming from this thread. Bummer!


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

derekb727 said:


> well that kinda killed the idea's steaming from this thread. Bummer!


The only one that did the Bigger MAP sensor back in the day was APR they used it on there Stage 1.8T 3+ TT 225 kit it ran 26+ PSI . I just looked and APR quietly took that kit off the market I know they had a few problems with stock rods and holes in the block LOL Bob.G


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

> elRey
> Did your actual boost ever reach/maintain requested? Or stayed 120mbar negative offset?


Actual boost stayed 100-500 mbar under requested for the most part... went a little over a few times too.



Jefnes3 said:


> What is your actual goal?
> 
> 1. To be able to run over ~22psi boost is easy on the stock MAP sensor.
> Simply request more and the ecu will 'never' get there and thus drive the
> ...


My actual goal is to run 24 psi on my Stage 2 file without using a manual boost controller.

1) If I requested more than 22 psi my ECU would reset boost to 22... every time without fail. How do you turn off overboost checks?

2) What tweaks will be useful with the 3 bar MAP?



> Originally Posted by derekb727
> well that kinda killed the idea's steaming from this thread. Bummer!


Haha, ya parts of it. I did hope to be able to simply request higher boost from the ECU and get it.

For whatever reason, it seems that the 1.8T GLI's have poor reactions to the diode mod that people are using to on other 1.8T's to up their boost. So the bigger MAP gets around that... but I still don't know how to set things up properly yet...


*Background Info:*

What I did, originally, to up the Stage 2 file's boost from 20 psi to 22 is read my ECU with Unisettings and then save that file to my comp. Then I opened that file in a Hex-Editor so that I could adjust the hidden boost channel. I upped that value and got an extra 2 psi. That's the limit though. When I request more, the ECU resets back to 22 psi.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Did some reading, basically everything has to be scaled back to make the ECU use of the 3bar sensor's potential. This has been discussed from what I gather, at this point its not been done because of the effort needed and "arguably" isn't needed. Not sure I agree with that, though the major hitch is that the actual MAP reading file is only 8-bit and isn't big enough to add in more pressure data; a larger file would have to be constructed. That's the layman's version...


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

l88m22vette said:


> So what way could APR do it? Would they have gone as far as modding the programming as mentioned,


Im dont know the tech part but it seems APR did re scale it the way Jeff said . Bob.G


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

can someone share a link to this VVT thread? thanks


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5116947-Who-is-using-VVT-to-make-power

Enjoy :thumbup:


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

So I finally made some time to play with timing/fuel this weekend to see if I can get this 3 bar MAP dialed in. Things aren't quite right yet but they're close and basically I've just pulled a little timing, added a little primary fuel and adjusted the wastegate.

Results so far... car pulls better off idle, smoother and stronger through the revs


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Any updates?


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Hey, sorry I kind of dropped the ball on an update! 

I've changed everything back to stock form and have been waiting on Lavi @ Unitronic as he's offered to help me with a couple lingering ignition timing and fuelling issues. These issues were present long before changing to 22psi or upgrading the MAP but I switched back to stock so we can establish a base line. 

Before changing back to the 2.5bar, my car was pulling smoother and stronger than it ever has... off idle to redline. Having to go back to the original Stage 2 setup has been painful. 

*Previously though...* 

I grabbed a calculator and realized the 3.0bar MAP reads 20% more boost so I simply multiplied whatever boost I was reading by 1.2 so see what I was actually making. If I was over or under 24psi I just adjusted the wastegate to suit. 

Logging block 032 let me know how fuel trims were and I just added _primary fuel_ to keep under 10% 

Logging block 031 helped me out with the TIP in fuel ratios and that combined with my butt dyno let me know how whether to add _fuel on increasing load_ or not. 

Once the fuelling and airflow had been set I then just tweaked the timing to be sure I was maximizing power without going over safe limits. 

Water/Meth was keeping IAT's down... car was pulling hard and smooth  

Once Lavi and I work through a few details I'll be switching back to the 3.0bar MAP and retuning :thumbup:


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

You won't gain ANYTHING with 3 bar MAP sensor. MAP is there merely to keep things safe, for ECU to go into limp mode when overboosting and it is ECU that decides if you are overboosting or not, so if you program ECU to not send you to limp mode at 22 PSI you can pretty much boost to the moon and it won't do ****. This is why you can never overboost and end up in limp mode when on big turbo files (eurodyne, unitronic etc.). 

Unitronic pretty much lied to you if they told you that they can not make you boost over 22 psi because of stock MAP sensor. They just wanted to get you off their back because the truth is that your stock turbo can't do it (well it can for a split second but it will do nothing but hurt your power). 

APR used 3 bar MAP in their Audi TT kit because they wanted to do it OEM style, monitor pressure the whole way and implement all safety features that stock car has. There is a huge difference in tuning approach between Unitronic and APR especially when it comes to big turbo files.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

mescaline said:


> You won't gain ANYTHING with 3 bar MAP sensor. MAP is there merely to keep things safe, for ECU to go into limp mode when overboosting and it is ECU that decides if you are overboosting or not, so if you program ECU to not send you to limp mode at 22 PSI you can pretty much boost to the moon and it won't do ****. This is why you can never overboost and end up in limp mode when on big turbo files (eurodyne, unitronic etc.).


 Agreed that the ECU is the controlling factor for command boost and from what I understand the ECU relies on the MAP sensor to let it know when the limit has been reached... so with the bigger MAP sensor you never reach that limit and never go into limp mode. 



mescaline said:


> Unitronic pretty much lied to you if they told you that they can not make you boost over 22 psi because of stock MAP sensor. They just wanted to get you off their back because the truth is that your stock turbo can't do it (well it can for a split second but it will do nothing but hurt your power).


 When I called Unitronic to ask about customizing a 24psi file for me they told me that the ECU's in the 05' GLI's won't accept that much boost... 22psi is the limit. I had a different tuner tell me that I could get around that with a bigger MAP sensor. 



mescaline said:


> APR used 3 bar MAP in their Audi TT kit because they wanted to do it OEM style, monitor pressure the whole way and implement all safety features that stock car has. There is a huge difference in tuning approach between Unitronic and APR especially when it comes to big turbo files.


 Ideally, this is exactly what I'd like to have... a file written for a larger MAP and be able to adjust boost as necessary. 

Without question, however, my car was running far better with the bigger MAP and related tuning tweaks; and I can't wait to change it back. Maybe there are some factors, other than the MAP, that explain the difference but I'm just not aware of them. This has been an experiment for me and I'm learning as I go eace:


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Yes it will run more boost on stock MAP, ask them how they made bigger turbo software run more boost then. 

You will gain nothing by running more than 22 psi of boost on stock turbo man, you won't be physically possible to go over 22 psi in higher rpm, over 5000rpm your boost will tapper down to like 12-15 psi ...even more. You are just wasting your time and money. If your car runs better with parts that software wasn't designed for, it just means that software wasn't good in the first place.


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## EugeneDubbin (Aug 31, 2008)

mescaline said:


> Yes it will run more boost on stock MAP, ask them how they made bigger turbo software run more boost then.
> 
> You will gain nothing by running more than 22 psi of boost on stock turbo man, you won't be physically possible to go over 22 psi in higher rpm, over 5000rpm your boost will tapper down to like 12-15 psi ...even more. You are just wasting your time and money. If your car runs better with parts that software wasn't designed for, it just means that software wasn't good in the first place.


 
This. 

This thread has a bunch of good tech in it though, but its an absolutely horrible idea to clamp the map sensor with a diode. That's old, bad information and should not be implemented. The same effect can be achieved properly through other avenues. 

Everyone's telling you you're wasting your time because...well, its a K03s. It just burns up your turbo faster.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Ya, good point about BT software. 

Funny enough, the reason I ended up here is to avoid the diode mod. Other people have had success with this turbo going a little above 22psi but I agree it's efficiency goes out the window by then... plus the heat factor. I do have a plan for the heat/efficiency but there are a couple pesky hardware or software issues to take care of first  

I don't mind experimenting with this turbo though. I'd rather not wreck it but if I toast it, no biggie. I'm actually going to port it out a bit this summer too  

I know, I know... a new turbo and tune would be better and I agree but this will have to do for now :beer:


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## A4_effrt (May 31, 2010)

i like this thread


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