# The final note - "The pursuit for a Passat/CC 4Motion performance exhaust"



## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

In the past 25 years that I have been in the VW scene, I have owned my share of Sciroccos [8V & 16V], Golfs [Wolfsburg, GTI and R32], Corrado SLC, Jettas [GL. GLI 16VI, GLX], Passats [16V & VR6] and a mix of other mild to wild VAG builds that have had a distinct signature for each one that made them identifiable without even seeing the car. You know that exact sense, the sense of sound, from a distance you can hear it coming down the road, winding through the gears, from the stop signs to rolling past your home or car show, that sound that makes a VW 16V, 1.8T or VR6 a distinctive sound of its own. If you have ever owned a VR6, you know how great they sound with a well tuned performance exhaust. As a Passat/CC 3.6 4Motion owner, you know that you are limited to either eliminating your suit case as the cheap option for finding that sound that you have been missing or selling your first born child to import a system from Europe that though nice, still is considered the rare case to find. There needs to be an in-between solution that is an affordable bolt on and available here in the US for those seeking that distinctive sound for their Passat/CC.

Since I own a CC 3.6 4Motion myself, I have contacted several of you and have gotten replies expressing interest and concerns on this matter. This thread is to help gauge the interest in a system for the Passat/CC 4Motion cars so that a select tuner can gauge the marketability of a said system to fill the void. So, if you are a Passat/CC 3.6 4Motion owner, or know someone that is, let them know about this thread and reply. As a group, this will help bring that void to a reality. So make this happen.


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## 3.6awdwagon (Aug 27, 2010)

Hope you have better luck than I did. I've been trying for a while to do bring attention to aftermarket exhaust companies with no luck. If the price is right, and there are noticeable gains, I'm in.:thumbup:


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## sg207ptg (Jul 6, 2000)

I am still interested. :thumbup:


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

I have already been in discussion with my contact and so far, out of 16 people that I have contacted about this thread and my attempt at getting this to reality, five have responded and I expect more. This will also work too if you also know people that may not post on here daily or are out of the loop, are made known of this thread and its purpose. As far as price, that has yet to be determined as it will come down to the manufacturer.


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

So far, I have contacted everyone listed below that at one time or another, expressed interest in this [those with a :thumbup: and a [P] for Passat or [C] for CC, and have replied to my message in support of the effort] for an exhaust system for the 3.6 4motion.

1. 3.6awdwagon [P] :thumbup:
2. thekmish [P]
3. sg207ptg [P] :thumbup:
4. fvbean [P] :thumbup:
5. MDAce15 [P] :thumbup:
6. VR [P]
7. jettamkIVvr6 [P]
8. filipinodawg [P] 
9. volks76 [C]
10. greek bandit [C] :thumbup:
11. dj_cronic_metal [C]
12. CCNoob [C]
13. baddceo [C]
14. CC 3.6 4MO [C]
15. dmartine [C]
16. shep37 [C]
17. Rheinland Technik [C] :thumbup:

To keep this interesting and moving....


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

Problem is, too many variables. Sedan vs wagon...4mo vs FWD. Setups are not just one design. While I'd like to see this happen the unfortunate reality is that a manufacturer will need to see a significant market for it. You CC guys will probably have better luck as its a sedan with no wagon option. Passat dudes, not so much. Unfortunate but true.
Honestly, even if one were made available for my car I'd probably pass on it. Suitcase delete satisfies my craving for the vr6 sound. :laugh:

Hopefully one of our paying advertisers will chime in with their opinion on it though!!!


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## salvadorsantana (Jul 16, 2011)

Rheinland Technik said:


> In the past 25 years that I have been in the VW scene, I have owned my share of Sciroccos [8V & 16V], Golfs [Wolfsburg, GTI and R32], Corrado SLC, Jettas [GL. GLI 16VI, GLX], Passats [16V & VR6] and a mix of other mild to wild VAG builds that have had a distinct signature for each one that made them identifiable without even seeing the car. You know that exact sense, the sense of sound, from a distance you can hear it coming down the road, winding through the gears, from the stop signs to rolling past your home or car show, that sound that makes a VW 16V, 1.8T or VR6 a distinctive sound of its own. If you have ever owned a VR6, you know how great they sound with a well tuned performance exhaust. As a Passat/CC 3.6 4Motion owner, you know that you are limited to either eliminating your suit case as the cheap option for finding that sound that you have been missing or selling your first born child to import a system from Europe that though nice, still is considered the rare case to find. There needs to be an in-between solution that is an affordable bolt on and available here in the US for those seeking that distinctive sound for their Passat/CC.
> 
> Since I own a CC 3.6 4Motion myself, I have contacted several of you and have gotten replies expressing interest and concerns on this matter. This thread is to help gauge the interest in a system for the Passat/CC 4Motion cars so that a select tuner can gauge the marketability of a said system to fill the void. So, if you are a Passat/CC 3.6 4Motion owner, or know someone that is, let them know about this thread and reply. As a group, this will help bring that void to a reality. So make this happen.


Watch this

http://youtu.be/y7YSsW4g1jU


I'm UNIQUE!


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Since the main purpose of this thread is to address 4Motion cars only, this will simplify things more. Also, since there are exhaust manufacturers that currently market exhaust for the 4Motion cars [Supersprint, Bastuck and a couple other from Europe and Japan], many of them list two systems which cover both sedan, wagon and coupe, so the variables are minimal. There are soome that offer dual tip designs, but since the US only uses single tip designs, the main difference being of concern are the rear mufflers and that is a minor and easily resolved issue. I have even located two Passat 3.6 4M wagons close to me that I even was able to take a few pics of to compare visually with the system on the CC. I spent part of the morning putting together a list of posters that have either a 3.6 / 3.6 4M Passat or CC [mostly CC's as I have not went through the Passat forum yet] and came up with 25- 30 names that have Passat or CC 4M cars in addition to the 18 that I have already contacted to survey possible interest in a system. Needless to say, even if the market isn't there, it will not prevent me from going out on my own and working with a local shop that I have used in the past and building a one off system for my own CC. The purpose of this thread is to gauge interest and provide feedback to help provide a market sample to help build a case for offering a system to fit both the Passat and CC 4Motion cars.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I'm all for it. All I was saying is the market needs to be bigger than it currently is to make a (cost effective) setup. Not raining on the parade or anything... I actually think it sucks that there is hardly anything available for our cars. :banghead:


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## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

I'm sill in, cost would be a big decision maker for me

Sent from my Razr Maxx on Tapatalk 2


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Considering the current offerings for exhaust for the 4Motion cars are $2400 [1800 Euro] not including shipping from Europe or Japan and comparing it to similar exhaust systems [found on cars sharing a similar layout that is found on the Passat & CC], a dual exhaust would be in the $1150-$1600 range, based on what I have been looking at. Most single exit exhaust range between $650-$900, though some systems can be had for less, but you also get less cosmetic appeal [polished versus natural, tips versus standard pipe exits, bend rod hangers versus OEM style with mount retention point and so on]. Also you have to look at the materials that will be used such as 300 series stainless versus 400 series, MIG welded versus TIG welded, clamp types and other general hardware.

Just a few that come to mind that offer other VW and Audi exhaust fitments to compare the quality and fitment are listed below and even with these, you can see the differences in materials, workmanship and price.

Borla, Magnaflow, Dynomax, MBS, Billy Boat, Techtonics, AWE, Autotech, Neuspeed, APR, Eurosport, Supersprint, Bastuck…

I don't expect an exhaust to be on the high end in cost like those from Europe, nor do I expect to see a system that is on the semi-low end with magnetic 409 series pipe and mufflers to satisfy most 4Motion owners. If we can convince them to offer a mid range solution, I think most people would be happy and consider this over the high or low end of the range. Face it, you get what you pay for, but you always want quality and with quality, you look for the best at the price you can afford. If you want the top quality, you will pay the price and if you don't want to pay the price, then the lower quality is what you end up getting. Comparatively, I didn’t opt to install $2650+ air-ride suspension on my CC, but I also didn’t decide to go with a set of $300 Raceland Coilovers on a car that cost nearly $50K. I looked at what gave me the lowering range that I wanted [nothing too drastic that would not allow me to be close to stock] like a 55-85 mm drop kit versus a 25-35 mm drop, which I ended up with a 45-65 mm drop system that was adjustable and I shopped around for the best price I could find and went with a name that I trusted [Bilstein PSS10 for $1650 and I feel that I got a good deal and a great product]. Don’t get me wrong, as I would love to have a full header back Supersprint system on my CC and a Stoptech front brake upgrade, but I have priorities [wife and kids…].

So, voice your thoughts on what you are willing or expecting to pay and what you prefer in sound quality and appearance. I personally, want a moderately mellow sound, not a boy racer sound that you get with some exhaust [there are plenty of videos online that sound like someone trying to skin a cat with a dull bush ax in a empty coffee can].


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## Kvn22 (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm in!


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## browncc (Oct 16, 2012)

bump for great sounding exhaust


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## CC3.6R-LINE (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm all for it. IT ABOUT TIME


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## greek bandit (Sep 29, 2004)

Bump

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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

I will be messaging the list of other users that I came up with the other day when I get home and sending them the link to this thread as well as the message that I sent to the earlier groups that were sent messages.


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## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

$1,000 would be my high max, but for that it would have to be stainless or a really quality system.

$600-800 for aluminum with mufflers and maybe not tips i think is reasonable if we are talking about only a cat-back bolt together

I understand the higher cost for a dual system vs. single but I have bought super nice single systems before for under $400 so I would expect the dual to be priced close. Maybe an option for using you own mufflers to keep the cost down? or resonated and non-res systems?

just putting ideas out there, obviously this is all discussion atm:beer:


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Yes, you can get systems for less, but again quality in different peoples eyes will vary. You have to compare materials [as mentioned in my previous post] 308 or 409 stainless, wall thickness 0.048" or 0.063", mufflers [sound deadening materials used, welded versus rolled seam construction]. The list can go on and on. Finding a company to build an aluminized system for the Passat/CC just won't happen, even Techtonics only offers stainless systems for the Mk6 chassis cars [ranging from $630-$765] or for an Audi A6 is around $1350. I have owned cheap systems [not eBay cheap, make in who knows where] and you get what you pay for and I personally don't want the boy racer sound, I want the deep throaty sound that makes you turn your head to see what is coming down the road, not turn your head to see what "POS" is making racket. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind getting a stainless system for $700-$900, I just don't think it will happen. Even if I bought mandrel bent pipes, mufflers, clamps and hangers to build my own system, I would have $850-$1000 in material alone [Borla mufflers, Burns piping and Vibrant hangers and etc.].

I can say that the company that I have been discussing this with, will not offer aluminized, nor do I expect they would offer piping only. If this does move forward, I would expect that there would be a system with and without a resonator center pipe.


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## greek bandit (Sep 29, 2004)

VR said:


> $1,000 would be my high max, but for that it would have to be stainless or a really quality system.
> 
> $600-800 for aluminum with mufflers and maybe not tips i think is reasonable if we are talking about only a cat-back bolt together
> 
> ...


 i got the cat-back for my 03 24v gli for 380 and that was a magnaflow. i will agree you get what you pay for but at the same time its a single exhaust from the cat till after the axel i cant see what would cost more than a grand for that car. either way i support and want a system just hope its not way way up there in price or it may take me a little extra time to get it


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

I had a Magnaflow system for my old Mk4 R32. Remember, Magnaflow also uses 409 series stainless steel, which is cheaper and will tarnish much quicker and they also have roll seamed mufflers. Keep all of your thought coming.


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## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

Rheinland Technik said:


> Yes, you can get systems for less, but again quality in different peoples eyes will vary. You have to compare materials [as mentioned in my previous post] 308 or 409 stainless, wall thickness 0.048" or 0.063", mufflers [sound deadening materials used, welded versus rolled seam construction]. The list can go on and on. Finding a company to build an aluminized system for the Passat/CC just won't happen, even Techtonics only offers stainless systems for the Mk6 chassis cars [ranging from $630-$765] or for an Audi A6 is around $1350. I have owned cheap systems [not eBay cheap, make in who knows where] and you get what you pay for and I personally don't want the boy racer sound, I want the deep throaty sound that makes you turn your head to see what is coming down the road, not turn your head to see what "POS" is making racket. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind getting a stainless system for $700-$900, I just don't think it will happen. Even if I bought mandrel bent pipes, mufflers, clamps and hangers to build my own system, I would have $850-$1000 in material alone [Borla mufflers, Burns piping and Vibrant hangers and etc.].
> 
> I can say that the company that I have been discussing this with, will not offer aluminized, nor do I expect they would offer piping only. If this does move forward, I would expect that there would be a system with and without a resonator center pipe.


obviously stainless is the way to go, just thought aluminized would be a way to keep the cost down. I have had aluminized systems before that were very nice quality. Anything in the market of well over 1000 or more I will go the custom route. I am pretty sure I can have a system made for me (yes aluminized) for under 500/600 easy. I would much prefer to have an exhaust manufacturer audi/vw specific make one though umpkin:

it does go back to you get what you pay for though, well said

1,000 for a stainless true dual system with all the hardware, mufflers, res or no res ect....is well worth it to say the least. I think that should be the target price but I again have no experience or numbers with that amount of material and such. I have seen ppl pay well over $1,000 for a turbo back stainless which at the time I thought was crazy but its also a lot of pipe and then you also have the flex joints in it and flanges ect. so.....yeah - im anxious to keep watching


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## Kvn22 (Apr 1, 2009)

opcorn:


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

If the interest in this is that dead, I would say that nothing has changed since the last time anyone worked on this subject. So if no one is interested is voicing interest, I will kill this thread and build my own system.


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## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

Honestly I'm not sure I'm going to have my car that much longer. Prob looking into a tdi wagon within the next few months.

Sent from my Razr Maxx on Tapatalk 2


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## ShadowWabbit (Aug 16, 2006)

Add me to the list. I'll have my car by next week.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

if you want to be to cost effective, it will only have 1 muffler, the rear muffler sections would only be straight pipes.

Similiar to what [email protected] did for the MK6 GTI


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## mmacedon26 (Nov 12, 2012)

Add me to the list as well.
Thanks,


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

BsickPassat said:


> if you want to be to cost effective, it will only have 1 muffler, the rear muffler sections would only be straight pipes.
> 
> Similiar to what [email protected] did for the MK6 GTI


It would decrease cost, but sound would be sacrificed. At minimum, there would have to be at least two mufflers in order to keep from killing the sound quality as there is no room for a large single muffler under the car. A center muffler alone would not do the job.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Rheinland Technik said:


> It would decrease cost, but sound would be sacrificed. At minimum, there would have to be at least two mufflers in order to keep from killing the sound quality as there is no room for a large single muffler under the car. A center muffler alone would not do the job.


maybe.... there's Magnaflow XL and Dynomax VT mufflers to consider as options also.

http://www.magnaflow.com/02product/universalsatinxl.asp

http://dynomax.com/mufflers.php?muffler=vt

also, If you're willing to drop around $40,000 for a car... why cheap out on aluminized steel?


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

If this goes forward, sound testing is mandatory. Hence why many manufacturers of exhaust systems for VR6 cars use two mufflers and sometimes a third [resonator] to keep the tone smooth and the noise level down. Personally, I will run nothing less than 300 series stainless on my CC when it comes down to buying or building a system. Is it needed for where I live, no, but the finish will last much longer and the sound will stay more consistent over time versus aluminized systems as they begin to rust.


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Word from my contact yesterday is there is a manager meeting today and the CC exhaust will be brought up today. Hopefully more news will come soon enough if they feel the market is there.


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## seppo777 (Sep 2, 2012)

Rheinland Technik said:


> Word from my contact yesterday is there is a manager meeting today and the CC exhaust will be brought up today. Hopefully more news will come soon enough if they feel the market is there.


 Thanks. Manager meeting of what entity?


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## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

Wagon??

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## greek bandit (Sep 29, 2004)

Crossing my fingers

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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

seppo777 said:


> Thanks. Manager meeting of what entity?


 That I cannot say until they give the word. 

Wagon will be possible, thought right now it is up to the company to decide first if it is something they want to offer.


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## Bill6211789 (Dec 11, 2009)

VR said:


> Wagon??
> 
> Sent from my Razr Maxx on Tapatalk 2


 There shouldnt be a difference in the wagon 4motion vs the sedan 4motion

On the 2.0t passats the wagon and sedan use the same catback 

Sent from my Galaxy SIII


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## Kvn22 (Apr 1, 2009)

Rheinland Technik said:


> Word from my contact yesterday is there is a manager meeting today and the CC exhaust will be brought up today. Hopefully more news will come soon enough if they feel the market is there.


So, what's the word?

opcorn:


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

No word, as I am not in daily contact with them. I will see if I can get feedback from them this week.


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## volks76 (Dec 8, 2004)

so whats the word on the exhaust???

i've been looking at getting a full supersprint exhaust system in the new yr so let me know what happens 
thks andrew


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

I should have more feedback on Thursday.


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## browncc (Oct 16, 2012)

bump for exhaust update.


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Dimensions were taken from my CC and they are still discussing it internally and it will be a matter of them deciding.


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## browncc (Oct 16, 2012)

i want sound tell them to do a batch sale...


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## volks76 (Dec 8, 2004)

whats up its the new year and i will be buying a new exhaust this year


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## SWES2006 (Jul 26, 2006)

what good with this thread... 2013 4motion cc owner looking for a exhaust with this TAX money im about to get..


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

Curious to see if this goes somewhere (id like to see it). As a wagon owner though, im just going to slowly build my own. I have access to my own welder and will most likely end up replacing the exhaust piece by piece as I see fit. 

The OEM piping from the manifolds to the rear split is actually good quality (and fairly thick). I will most likely buy some pre mandrel bent piping, and rebuild the system using those, and some mufflers. My passat thread will be documenting the process of my exhaust overhaul. _Link is in my signature if you're curious_

Regardless, Id love to see an exhaust similar to the ones overseas that RHineland mentioned for us over here. The 3.6 4mo lux cc is an expensive car, you DO get what you pay for when it comes to exhaust kits. If a company puts time into making a GOOD kit, I would buy it knowing a good company, made a good kit for a good car. 

IF you owned a b7 rs4, it wouldn't make sense to buy a 400$ it that "gets the job done". To me, cars that are executed as well as these are, deserve the best. If you just want a cheap solution and aren't happy about a 1200$+ price tag, then don't buy it... and just hack off stock stuff until you get the sound you want. What annoys me is people say they want an exhaust made, then a good guy like Technik goes ahead and sets it up, then people say whoa whoa 1200?!?! or 1600?! or whatever. and back out, because they bought an exhaust for an entirely different car years ago for less. Market is different, specs are different, materials change, so many variables. The 3.6 4mo is a rare car, and people who want to mod it are even more rare. Insert higher prices. If you want to pay less for mods, then you have to have a car that more people own. 

The oem system is designed well. It is equal length when the piping is independent, and the components do flow well. Is there added muffling? - yes. Is there room for flow improvement? - yes. But minimal. What this comes down to, is who is really going to pay good $$ for sound and maybe a little bit of power. Prob only those who truly appreciate what this car is and can be, and who have the means necessary to do so. This limited market is what it is, so the provider of this system knows that, and is going to adjust its prices accordingly to make it worthwhile. 

In for progress :thumbup: Nice work Technik


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

I haven't posted in a while, mainly due to the fact that my CC has been away on loan at APR and I just got it back the other day. Well, now you know two things... So to add fuel to the fire, I will ask everyone to contact Arin @ APR either by PM here or directly and express your interest in an exhaust for our 4Motion CCs.


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## VR (Jul 2, 2001)

What happened to this being for 4mo wagons also?

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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Wagon is possible, just contact Arin to express interest. The more calls they get the more they will have to consider making it happen.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

will you be running their 3.6 software as well Technik?


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

My car was used as the test bed.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

Rheinland Technik said:


> My car was used as the test bed.


you have the med17/ newer ecu then correct?


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## Rheinland Technik (Apr 2, 2010)

Negative, mine is an older unit.


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## DBVeeDB (Aug 3, 2007)

Rheinland Technik said:


> Negative, mine is an older unit.


oh goody, I have been waiting to see their officla results from their med9 ecu file. i anxiously await.


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## puggs_dub (Apr 15, 2005)

Contacting Arin today!


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## browncc (Oct 16, 2012)

any luck


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## mo4mo (Apr 10, 2013)

Bump. I just emailed them as well.


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## talja10 (Jan 4, 2010)

Looking dor the same here.i have a 2.0t which im looking to make it with 2x2 tips i already got the diffuser.otherwise ill go with custom.


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