# Choosing and installing replacement tires



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Tire installation*

I am thinking about replacing my tires with Goodyears, and, if I do, I want to be able to supervise. There was a lot of info on this subject a while back, but I can't find it.
Specifically- after placing the car in 'jack up' mode and removing old tire, I seem to recall something about a special wax to use when re-installing the wheel. Also wheel bolt torque.
Any help will be appreciated.


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

As always, Michael has posted a very useful guide to wheel protection here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2230397


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tire installation (Jack Orr)*

Hello Jack:
Torque values are listed here in this thread: How to change a flat tire on a Phaeton, along with quite a few pictures that provide useful information about tire changing.
A couple of tips, if you plan to change a tire yourself:
*1)* When installing the replacement tire, just snug up the bolts while the car is on the jack (semi-tight, but not with enough force to risk disturbing the car resting on the jack), then do the final torquing once you have lowered the car and the wheel is resting on the ground. You are probably already aware of the tip about getting the original wheel off: Crack the 5 bolts loose before you jack the car up, to avoid the risk of knocking the vehicle off the jack once it has been lifted up.
*2)* No matter how careful you are about putting the car into "jacking-up-mode", it will still probably throw a tantrum like a 5 year old when you first start it up after changing the tire - with all sorts of messages like "Car too Low!", "Suspension Fault - Workshop!", and one of the four wheels (not necessarily the one you changed) appearing to be very, very low. Don't worry about this. After you start the car and read all the complaints, just push the "ride height" button, twist the dial to lift the car to the highest setting, and confirm this. Let the car lift up, this takes about 20 seconds. Now push the ride height button again, twist the dial in the opposite direction (back to normal ride height), confirm it, land et the car go back to normal. After you do this little exercise, all will be well again.
Michael


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Tire installation (PanEuropean)*

As is usual with this group- and, particularly Michael, thanks a million!!!!!!!!!
I guess the lithium grease would be easiest to come by.


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (Jack Orr)*

Hi Jack,
Good luck with the new Goodyears. Which ones are you putting on? Be sure to let us know how they work out. It's always fun to put on new shoes.







I'll be looking into this next year. I still run the M/S OEMs in the winter. I know I should get snow tires but we just don't get that much snow anymore here in Kansas City. If we do get snow, that's what the T-reg for.








Regards,
Brent


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tire installation (W126C)*

I have just purchased a set of 5 Yokohama Advan Sport tires (255/45 ZR18, 103Y load rating). I am very happy with these tires, they are extremely quiet on the road, and very grippy. The treadwear rating is a bit lower than most tires (180), but I don't drive aggressively so I am not too worried about this.
These tires are standard fitment on the Bentley Continental GT sold in Europe - so, they are more than suitable for the Phaeton. I got them from Tire Rack.
Michael


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: Tire installation (PanEuropean)*

I'm thrilled with my purchase of Nexen N3000's 11000 miles ago. So far, no detectable tire wear, quieter than the Michelin's, and they are cheap!


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (sethdallob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sethdallob* »_I'm thrilled with my purchase of Nexen N3000's 11000 miles ago. So far, no detectable tire wear, quieter than the Michelin's, and they are cheap!

Seth,
Where did you get them? eBay?


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Tire installation (W126C)*

Brent, I 'm gonna use the Goodyear F1-GS-D3. They test extremely well, seem to be quiet, and have excellent grip. Haven't been happy at all with the Michelin that came with the car, except they are quiet. All other parameters are average at best.


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (Jack Orr)*

Jack,
I had the Fi-GS- D3's. They were great for about 15K, then they got very noisy and grip fell off as well. They do have great spec's, but I went back to the Michelins last month.


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Tire installation (pirateat50)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pirateat50* »_I went back to the Michelins last month.

One of my OEM Michelins failed... it developed a hump and within a few hours the car became undrivable due to shake. So I have a ruined wheel in the trunk. 
I am not sure I am ready to buy five new tires, b/c the Michelins are still holding very well, so I thought I would buy just one. But the Michelin website does not have a Y103; it only has a 103H which I would not install. An the Tire Rack does not have the OEM Michelins anymore either.








Any suggestions as to how to get one? Thanks!


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: Tire installation (noahas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *noahas* »_Seth,
Where did you get them? eBay?

Yes, but the seller happened to be local. The reviews on other enthusiast boards were very good, too.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: Tire installation (Itzmann)*

Last I knew, Park Cities VW, in Dallas, still has the original equipment Michelins in stock.


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## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (Itzmann)*

Hi Francisco,
I would not worry about using H rated tires on the Phaeton. Unless you have removed the speed limiter and drive over 130 mph, H rated are fine. The OEM tires on NAR Phaetons are H rated from the factory. The load rating of 103 is the important bit.


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (Itzmann)*

I originally had the "H" rated tire and that is what I put back on. I rarely exceed 100 mph, let alone 130 mph, so I don't worry about it.


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## ADAM A (Jan 6, 2006)

*Re: Tire installation (Jack Orr)*

anyone have a good option for a all season tire. my michellins are about done


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## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Tire installation (Gobuster)*

Thanks! I went down and checked, you guys are absolutely right, the OEMs are H-rated. I don't know where I got the idea that it was otherwise. I'll order a 103 H from Michelin tomorrow.
Cheers,


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Tire installation (Itzmann)*

I just had 4 new PZeros put on two weeks ago. 275 40 ZR19 from ebay with no miles on them - still little knubs on the tread surface. Nice safe tires and fine ride with 41 pounds front and rear. Also available in the 255 45ZR 18 size.








[edit] Rides even better on 39 pounds front/rear.



_Modified by Paldi at 2:10 PM 5-24-2007_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tire installation (ADAM A)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ADAM A* »_...anyone have a good option for a all season tire.

Hi Adam:
From the bottom of my heart - don't buy all season tires, buy one set of summer tires and one set of winter tires. If you plan to keep the car for more than 40,000 miles of driving, the cost to you for rubber will be the same.
Here's how the math works: A set of all season tires will last about 40K miles on average. This means that once you hit 40K on your (proposed) new set of all seasons, you will have to buy another set of all seasons. Far better that you should buy a set of summer tires now, then get a set of winter tires in the fall. Those two sets (combined) will last you 80K miles. You might not plan to drive 80K miles, but if you plan to drive over 40K on your present car, it's the same price as two sets of all seasons.
The first year I had my Phaeton, I drove through the winter on the all seasons. I never had any concerns about getting stuck (heck, the car has 4 wheel drive), but I really didn't feel good about the cornering and stopping performance in the winter, because I knew from past experience that dedicated winter tires performed better. So, the following winter, I bought a set of dedicated winter tires (not "snow" tires, but winter tires), and wow, what a huge improvement in confidence, cornering, and stopping. It was like night and day.
This spring, I bought a set of 4 dedicated summer tires. They are far quieter than the OEM Michelin all-seasons, or anyone else's all-seasons for that matter.
The only extra expense you will encounter is the cost of a set of 4 rims for your car. This tends to average between $500 to $1,000 for a set of 4, depending on what you choose. But, honest, it's worth it, it really is.
Michael


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## aupieddecochon (May 10, 2003)

*Re: Tire installation (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael et al:
I tried to post a pic of the tire in question but I can't upload the pic onto the web so my reference is this eBay Motors listing number http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...i%3D1 see picture # 28.
Since we're talking tires, I was looking at the BBS tires that are featured on the 2006 W12 eBay listing. If you read the description in the listing, it says the tires were installed at the factory. Of course, I had to ask a stupid question to the dealer: "are these high performance tires...?" 
Well duh, yeah, but the sales guy was very polite and said nothing like that and simply said yes, these are 19 inch high performance tires.
A few questions, hopefully less stupid:
1. Do these make the ride noisier?
2. Do these make the ride rougher or harder?
3. If they are high performance, should I assume these will only last half as long as your Yoko's?
4. What if by some stretch I acquired this vehicle, what would be involved in changing the tires to a regular model...(thinking now about the "factory installation?"
5. Are these tires alone worth like $5k - $10k?


_Modified by chrisj428 at 12:43 PM 5-24-2007_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Tire installation (aupieddecochon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *aupieddecochon* »_
Since we're talking tires, I was looking at the BBS tires that are featured on the 2006 W12 eBay listing.
A few questions, hopefully less stupid:
1. Do these make the ride noisier?
2. Do these make the ride rougher or harder?
3. If they are high performance, should I assume these will only last half as long as your Yoko's?
4. What if by some stretch I acquired this vehicle, what would be involved in changing the tires to a regular model...(thinking now about the "factory installation?"
5. Are these tires alone worth like $5k - $10k?










The tires are Pirelli PZoros Rossos, the wheels are BBS.
The tire size is 255 40 19 (or maybe they are 20's?) so are likely to ride harder than stock. I don't know about noise. Tire life is pretty good on mine - expecting 30k miles no problem but mine are a little bigger - 275 40 19 also PZeros but not Rossos. Mine have a taller sidewall for a better ride - I just love 'em. I still look for reasons to go for a ride!








Changing tires on a BBS wheels shouldn't be unusually difficult. It might be difficult to find four stock Challenge wheels used if you want to make it stock. I see there is one in the trunk fitted with a stock Michelin tire. The wheels are expensive but I don't expect they are worth $10,000 used.
That's a great car. Buy it!

















_Modified by Paldi at 2:40 PM 5-24-2007_


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## ItsabigVW (Jan 3, 2007)

The 255 40 19 Pirelli P Zero is a VW factory fitment on the 19" Helios alloys that are fitted to my car and a large number of "light" none W12 Phaetons in the UK. They do thump into pot holes and they are slightly noisier on rough surfaces than the smaller wheels with bigger side walls but it's all relative and compared to the road roar that I got on my last BMW with these size tyres and sports suspension, it's like a library in my car now. They can be remarkably quiet on a newly surfaced road though. 
As for wear, I have done 8000 miles in 5 months and I would guess they are good for about 25k on my car. 
In the UK these tyres are £750 a set ($1500).
Peter


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## ItsabigVW (Jan 3, 2007)

PS As for the speed rating, I think they are good for 186mph. (If you plan to to over that, put a couple of extra PSI in them and get some brown coloured pants). 
Peter


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

*tyred*

ran the car into a curb. no damage to the car itself, but blew the a tire. so now i'm operating without a spare. i don't need a full set, and noted that the "tire rack" does not carry the tires on the car, which makes me wonder because. as it's a w12 and the tread is still so good on the tires with 50 thousand miles if the corredt tires are on the car. i have micheline (sic) pilots. do these have the correct load rating?








on a related note, i see tire rack now carries a fairly reasonably priced tire for the w12 phaeton, an avon tech M550. anyone have any opinions on that tire?


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## jimay (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: tyred (calmone)*

The same pilot HX MXM4 comes in two load ratings. Your tires should say 103 or 103H somewhere on the side wall if they are exact replacements.
Costco has the cheapest price I've seen on the Pilot HX MXM4's. If you are at 50,000 and have lots of tread on your tires, you may have had them replaced.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: tyred (calmone)*

Consider a used tire for your spare and to replace the blown tire, That way all your tires will have approx. the same tread depth. Or just get one and throw the spare back in the trunk. (I assume your spare was never used before the blowout and that your other tires are about half used up.)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem


















_Modified by Paldi at 9:32 AM 6-6-2007_


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## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: tyred (calmone)*

Hi, i recently replaced all 4 tires on my W12 at 22k miles. Because of the load rating the options are very limited if you want all season tires. I searched and searched for something better than the OEM tires, and the avons were the only other choice- apparently however they wear fast and get loud. I really wanted a better handling tire than the Michelins, but there are no options unless i opted for a summer only tire. I did not want to make it a double expense and on top of 2 sets of tires, pay the 200$ to the dealer everytime they needed to be switched unless I also bought wheels as well which would have been probably another $1k. So I went with the Michelins again...








Ed.


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## jimay (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: tyred (Paldi)*

Read the fine print on those eBay listings. They cheerfully tell you the tires may have plugs or patches in them. 
They won't look at them before shipping them. Your only recourse if you get a plugged or patched tire is to ship it back to them.
I did a buy it now last year to get a single spare like Paldi suggests here. When I asked the seller to check it for patches or plugs they refunded my money instead.


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: tyred (viscount)*

i am confused on the load issue, not being familiar with that spec. what is required and where is that grade in relatin to others in the rating system? (ie. are sl rated tires sufficisent?)
also, i find a site, "mavistire.com", which appears to offer a number of tires suitable for the w12. any thoughts?


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: tyred (calmone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *calmone* »_i am confused on the load issue, not being familiar with that spec. what is required and where is that grade in relatin to others in the rating system? (ie. are sl rated tires sufficisent?)

The OEM tires on the NAR Phaetons are listed as 255/45R18 103V, if I remember correctly. 
This breaks down as such:
*255*/45R18 103H
255 refers to the measurement across the width of the tread in millimeters.
255/*45*R18 103H
45 refers to the height of the sidewall. It is expressed as a percentage of the tread width. In this case, the height of the sidewall is 45% of 255 mm or 114.75 mm
255/45*R*18 103H
The R tells us the tire is a radial tire (as opposed to a bias-ply tire).
255/45R*18* 103H
18 refers to the diameter of the rim on which the tire will fit, in inches.
255/45R18 *103*H
_This is the load rating._ The 103 doesn't refer to an exact amount -- it's dependent on the section width. It states the maximum weight the tire is safely able to carry.
255/45R18 103*H*
H refers to the speed rating on the tire and refers to the maximum speed the tire is able to maintain. In this case -- sustained speeds up to 130 mph.


_Modified by chrisj428 at 8:31 AM 6-7-2007_


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

One of the best brand of tires I've ever tried (low noise levels, excellent grip, price and overall quality) is the Kuhmo tires and since I first tried it out 6 years ago on my Acura 3.5RL it had become the chosen one to use whenever it is time to change any of my cars' sets of tires from the original OEMs.
I am looking at this one now for my Phaeton even though I still have ample thread on it. Check it out and share your thoughts (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...ce=10)



_Modified by maverixz at 12:20 PM 6-7-2007_


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: (maverixz)*

are these tires fit for a w12? it's at tire rack but they recommend an xl load rated tire and the kuhmo is an sl rated tire, and not on the recommended list when one goes to tire rack as asks for tires that will fit a w12 phaeton.


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (calmone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *calmone* »_*are these tires fit for a w1*2? it's at tire rack but they recommend an xl load rated tire and the kuhmo is an sl rated tire, and not on the recommended list when one goes to tire rack as asks for tires that will fit a w12 phaeton.

That is exactly what I was hoping the more knowledgeable lady & gents would share with us.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (calmone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *calmone* »_are these tires fit for a w12? it's at tire rack but they recommend an xl load rated tire and *the kuhmo is an sl rated tire, and not on the recommended list* when one goes to tire rack as asks for tires that will fit a w12 phaeton.

William,
I believe you have answered your own question. If they are not XL rated (103 in a 45 series tire), they are not fit for use on a W12 Phaeton (or any Phaeton in the NAR, technically).


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

Thanks Chris for the clarifications.
I guess we are limited to either buying the Avon Tech M550 A/S or the OEMs whenever we want to change the tires.


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (maverixz)*

A quick search on Tire Rack's website found (in addition to the two tires you mentioned) five other tires which meet spec, four summer and one all-season.
ContiSport Contact 2
Dunlop SP Sport 9000
Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3
Yokohama ADVAN Sport
Bridgestone Turanza Serenity


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

I bought the Nexen N3000's, which are also 103 H rated, for significantly less than the options above. I've put almost 20k miles on them so far, they are quieter than the Michelins, and wearing very well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

I just received delivery of the ContiSport Contact 2 three season (not winter) tires and hope to put them on tomorrow. Consumer Reports tested them as substantially quieter than the others tested and having very good grip and ride quality. I'll report on them when I've used them for a while. They are expensive so I hope they last a fairly long time.


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

I was all set to get the Nexxen's to replace the OEM tires, having read good reports on them from Seth and others all over the internet. For the price they seem impossible to beat.
Then Fred posted that damn picture of the lowered care with the customized front with the 22" rims and I was forced to upgrade to 20" rims (22 was pushing it), so I just bought 4 fake BBS rims (the ones that look like they have a V or Y in them for the spokes) as well as 4 20" Falken 452 summer tires (Falken makes great tires as well). Total including install, rims, tires, tire warranty, etc. all in is $1950


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (noahas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *noahas* »_I was all set to get the Nexxen's ... Then Fred posted that damn picture of the lowered car with the customized front with the 22" rims and I was forced to upgrade to 20" rims (22 was pushing it), so I just bought 4 fake BBS rims... 


Wanton praise is unnecessary... I only ask for a few photos!











_Modified by Paldi at 8:18 PM 7-31-2007_


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Wanton praise is unnecessary... I only ask for a few photos!









To be installed late next week, pics by the weekend.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: tyred (calmone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *calmone* »_...on a related note, i see tire rack now carries a fairly reasonably priced tire for the w12 phaeton, an avon tech M550. anyone have any opinions on that tire?

Hi William:
I recently purchased a set of 5 "Yokohama Advan" tires from The Tire Rack to use as summer tires on my W12 Phaeton. I have about 1,000 miles on them now and I am very, very happy with these tires. They are very quiet and have amazing grip. The treadwear rating is a bit lower than the highest rated tires (it is 180), but personally, I think the luxury of the quiet ride and awesome grip justifies the somewhat reduced treadwear rating.
The Phaeton tech at my VW dealership recommended these tires to me. They were developed by Yokohama to be the standard factory installed tire on the Bentley Continental GT (the two door one), which is pretty close to a Phaeton so far as weight, etc. goes. These tires have a 103 weight rating, which is just fine for the Phaeton. They are the same size (diameter, width, etc.) as the OEM Michelin Phaeton tires.
Regards,
Michael


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*For the wheel/tire experts out there (Fred ...)*

Ok, sadly, it appears that I know more about tires than the guy at the local Discount Tires (which is quite a statement since I readily admit I know close to nothing about tires). So I ordered some fake BBS rims called Privat Netz in 20" (which look quite nice) which they were all set to bolt on with the Falken 452's they mounted .... except they had a weight rating of 99. So when I pointed that out, he then started looking for another tire that would fit.
He then recommended a Yokohama Parada Spec-x which he said would support the weight rating. I told him that I would research it and decide if I wanted to go with that one. Well, when I get home, I notice that the particular Yokohama tire he recommended is an all season SUV (so I would hope it would support the W12 weight) tire!!!
So I did more research, and Falken does indeed have a tire that will fit my car. In fact Discount Tire's own website shows it! It is a 275/35-20XL with a 102Y rating. Although when I look at Falken's website, they also show a 255/45-20XL with a 105Y rating. I assume the differences between the tires in handling will be minimal, and the 45 height will actually give me a cushier ride (right?), but the appeal of that 45 tire to me would be that it would fill up the wheel well more and provide a better look. How do I know if the 45 will actually fit as opposed the the 35 height? Any ideas of pro's or cons of 1 vs. the other?
Thanks in advance.
Noah
P.S. I forgot to add, I was going to remove the TPMS sensors from my OEM wheels and put them on these summer tires. The guy at Discount Tire recommended to put them on the winters instead if I was only going to just use one set of TPMS sensors. The rational was that in winter, tires are more likely to loose air or something like that. Any recommendations other than to get another set of sensors?


_Modified by noahas at 10:49 PM 6-13-2007_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (noahas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *noahas* »_ Falken 275/35-20XL with a 102Y rating...
Falken's website, also shows a 255/45-20XL with a 105Y rating. 
I assume the differences between the tires in handling will be minimal, and the 45 height will actually give me a cushier ride (right?), but the appeal of that 45 tire to me would be that it would fill up the wheel well more and provide a better look. How do I know if the 45 will actually fit as opposed the the 35 height? Any ideas of pro's or cons of 1 vs. the other?


Get out your tire calculator! The 275 35 20 tire compared to the 255 45 20 shows... a few things! First off, the 255 45 20 is 29.03 inches tall (2 inches taller than stock). It's tall and if you try it, it might rub on the tie rod in front. So be careful if you try experimenting with that tire. The ride should be great - it has 4.5 inch tall sidewalls, same as your stock 18 inch Michelins.
The 275 35 20 will likely fit - Riccone had them on his before he sold it. The diameter and width of that tire is same as mine - 27.6 diameter, 11 inches wide at the tread. Sidewall height is only 3.8 inches with the 275 35 20's so ride might be firm. Riccone liked it. My sidewalls are 4.3 inches tall and the ride is great with 39 pounds in them.
Do they make a 255 40 20? That would have a 28 inch diameter and a 4 inch tall side wall and 10 inches wide at the tread. Should fit except the spare tire.


_Modified by Paldi at 12:10 AM 6-14-2007_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

It will cost you up to $200 to swap TPMS sensors from summer to winter and back again - so that's $400 a year. Four sensors will cost under $600.


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Fred,
Thanks as always for the great info. I think I will see if they can do the 255/45-20 since that will give the better ride with the understanding that they need to verify that it fits the wheel well roperly before I drive off, since that will fill out the wheel wheel like in that picture I liked that you posted:








Since you said the 275/35-20's are the same diameter as yours, would you mind posting another pic ( I know you have certainly posted it in the past, of what yours looks like, again, I want to see how much it fills the well as compared to the above pic). Also, is yours lowered the 10mm via VAG-COM?
Oh, on the TPMS, your right, I agree about the cost, but my thought was that since I just got a flat the other day, and I could hear/feel the loss of air in the tire on my drive home, yet the TPMS system didn't indicate there was a problem until later that evening when I went to leave, and the tire was actually dead flat. I am questioning the value of the system as anything other than "gimmicky". That's why I was thinking to just use the VAG-COM to turn off the sensor system in the summer, and on in the winter (provided that the sensors from my OEM's are installed in the winter tires.
"Do they make a 255 40 20? That would have a 28 inch diameter and a 4 inch tall side wall and 10 inches wide at the tread. Should fit except the spare tire."
Nom unfortunately, the two models I listed are the only 20's they make with a high enough weight rating.
Thanks again,
Noah
_Modified by noahas at 9:29 PM 6-13-2007_


_Modified by noahas at 9:30 PM 6-13-2007_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (noahas)*

Mine was lowered only 5mm, not 10mm. I could go lower but the roads here are crap. An electronic lowering module would give you the ability to change it at will, say for display at a show.











_Modified by Paldi at 8:17 PM 7-31-2007_


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Perfect. I think I have it now. The electronic lowering is more than I want to spend for a "look", but yours looks great if I get the 275/35-20 size with the car lowered, and if the 255/45-20's fit, then I won't need to lower.
Pics to follow once installed.
Thanks again for all the help Fred.


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (noahas)*

Here is a pic that a friend just sent. Note sure what the source is since the car has Autobarn tags, but gives me perspective on what mine should look like when done.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (noahas)*

Nice wheels, what size are they? Fender gap looks like they are 27 inch tall tires, certainly not 28 or 29...


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Nice wheels, what size are they? Fender gap looks like they are 27 inch tall tires, certainly not 28 or 29...

I agree, I'm not sure on the size. I left him a msg and am waiting to hear back.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (noahas)*

Are you sure the wheels you ordered are able to handle the weight and torque of the W12? Many are not.
BTW, if you don't put the TPMS sensors in one set of wheels, you will face the warning and have the icon displayed whenever you drive the car using the other set. I tried it; it gets old fast.
My TPMS has warned me when a tire was as little as 2 - 3 lb. low. It is anything but a gimmicky system. The real danger, as many on this forum have found, is ignoring a warning because a tire "didn't look flat".


----------



## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_Are you sure the wheels you ordered are able to handle the weight and torque of the W12? Many are not.
BTW, if you don't put the TPMS sensors in one set of wheels, you will face the warning and have the icon displayed whenever you drive the car using the other set. I tried it; it gets old fast.
My TPMS has warned me when a tire was as little as 2 - 3 lb. low. It is anything but a gimmicky system. The real danger, as many on this forum have found, is ignoring a warning because a tire "didn't look flat".

Ok, maybe I should just spend the $600 on TPMS sensors and be done with it.
I thought in previous threads there was a conclusion after some debate, that usually any wheel should be ok and able to support the weight, no?


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (noahas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *noahas* »_Ok, maybe I should just spend the $600 on TPMS sensors and be done with it.
I thought in previous threads there was a conclusion after some debate, that usually any wheel should be ok and able to support the weight, no?

Try TireRack for the sensors. I believe they're considerbly cheaper there. Make sure you get both the valve stems and sensors.
I believe Michael has commented that not all wheels can handle the weight and torque particularly of the W12. I'm sure he'll correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_I believe Michael has commented that not all wheels can handle the weight and torque particularly of the W12.

This is true -- one must be very careful to ensure the wheels they're putting on a W12 or a V10 (the "heavies") are rated to handle the weight of the vehicle.


----------



## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (chrisj428)*

Here's the source of that pic:
http://www.cars.com/go/search/...=true


----------



## henna gaijin (Jun 30, 2005)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
This is true -- one must be very careful to ensure the wheels they're putting on a W12 or a V10 (the "heavies") are rated to handle the weight of the vehicle.

And not all aftermarket wheels are capable of accepting the TPMS sensors.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (noahas)*

Very nice!








Lots of spokes to hold things up. I believe I've seen them on W12's but you say yours are BBS replicas? I don't know about that...
Anyway, to avoid all that, I just selected a Bentley wheel because I know dang well they can handle the weight and torque. Suggest you shop aftermarket wheels for a Bentley and see if the replica BBS wheel is listed for it. Good luck!


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (noahas)*

If I was in the mood for 20's...
















A really great photo of a Spur.
I'd probably have to chrome those side mirror housings, just because I'm me.








I would love to see those wheels on a Phaeton too.



_Modified by Paldi at 12:12 AM 6-15-2007_


----------



## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: For the wheel/tire experts out there (Paldi)*

Well, after a phone conversation with Chris, and a measurement of my current gap between tire and wheel well, I feel better about it working.
I also ordered the TPMS sensors from 1stvwparts.com for $497 (for 4) delivered, which was $150-160 cheaper than I could get them at the local VW dealer for. 1stVWparts.com is actually Auburn VW that is located I beleive in Washington state, so they are legit.
Looking forward to late next week, hope to have some nice pics to share.


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_I just received delivery of the ContiSport Contact 2 three season (not winter) tires and hope to put them on tomorrow. Consumer Reports tested them as substantially quieter than the others tested and having very good grip and ride quality. I'll report on them when I've used them for a while. They are expensive so I hope they last a fairly long time.

I've driven several hundred miles on the the new Contis (255/45R18 103Y) max performance summer tires and am very pleased. They are MUCH quieter compared to my worn OEM Michelins or my Dunlop D3 snows (235/55R17). They are also much more compliant when dealing with sharp impacts such as expansion strips or small potholes. I would say they improve the ride by about 1.5 to 2 settings on the suspension control, i.e., the Contis at sport setting 1 = the Michelins (albeit worn) or the snows at the Comfort setting.
I just hope they last awhile as they are being discontinued and I am now told there are no current plans to produce this same size in the ContiSport Contact 3s.


----------



## ke0kie (Jul 14, 2007)

*Re: (sethdallob)*

I've had Nexens on another car and was very pleased as well.
Does the Nexen N3000 in fact carry 103 load rating? I contacted a seller on ebay selling the 3000's and waiting for detals.
My intent is to at least order a new 3000 for my spare.

--Scott


----------



## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (ke0kie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ke0kie* »_I've had Nexens on another car and was very pleased as well.
Does the Nexen N3000 in fact carry 103 load rating? I contacted a seller on ebay selling the 3000's and waiting for detals.
My intent is to at least order a new 3000 for my spare.

--Scott

When I was looking previously, I believe I remember the Nexen N3000 did have the 103 load rating for the 18" size. Once I decided to get 20's, I had to look elsewhere. The Falkens were very inexpensive (relatively) and highly rated as well, they also came with the 103 rating. I bought them at discounttiredirect.com (or discount tire store if you had one nearby).


----------



## Viergang Fuchs (May 31, 2006)

Re: the Nexxen tires.
I hate to be negative - oh, who am I kidding? - but I'd think long and hard before putting no-name Chinese tires under a 5100-pound, 155mph car. 
It's bad enough to buy Kumhos - they haven't figured out yet how to make a round tire - but at least you know that the tires have been tested way beyond anything you might do, usually by some Tilley-hat-wearing SCCA dork. The super-cheap tires like Nexxen are almost certainly not safe under heavy load, whether that load is cornering load, heat load, or five people in the car at 90mph. 
If you have to cheap out on tires, buy the Avon. Avon was the supplier for the original Bentley Turbo R and had an excellent record under that heavy, powerful car. You can get a whole set for $600. Any cheaper than that and you're risking your neck.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Viergang Fuchs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Viergang Fuchs* »_I hate to be negative - oh, who am I kidding?

Et tu, Brutus?









_Quote, originally posted by *Viergang Fuchs* »_If you have to cheap out on tires, buy the Avon. Avon was the supplier for the original Bentley Turbo R and had an excellent record under that heavy, powerful car.

Weren't Avons the ones that Rob (GoBuster) had such a hard time getting balanced a few years ago and ended up returning?


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Letting the pendulum swing to the other side of tire fitment, what is the tallest section height passenger car tire that can be used safely on the stock 18" Phaeton wheels? I'm more interested in ride comfort and noise reduction than zipping through pylons. At the speeds I can actually drive in lower Fairfield County turn in and tire squirm are seldom an issue my Phaeton has to deal with. 
RB


----------



## maz60 (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Hi Chris,
I replaced the original all season Michelins with the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity 255/45R18 tires about two months ago. I had about 30000 miles on the originals.
I have taken one long trip on the Bridgestones.
They are quiet and seem to handle the dry and the rain just fine. I paid $265 per tire at a local shop.
Maz


----------



## CA_W12 (Mar 22, 2007)

*Re: Tire installation (PanEuropean)*

Hello Michael - my Phaeton is soon ready for new shoes, your choice is on top of my list, hence I am curious whether you are still as enthusiastic about your Advan's as you originally were? since I use the Phaeton mostly for my commute, my main concerns are the comfort and noise level of these tires compared to the OEM Michelins.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tire installation (CA_W12)*

Hi Lorenz:
I am 110% satisfied with the Advans. I now have about 5,000 miles on them, they are absolutely perfectly silent, they grip the road like glue, and I have had no problems at all with them. When they wear out, I'll buy the very same tire all over again. 
They are called "Yokohama Advan Sport" tires, and my VW dealer purchased them for me through The Tire Rack.
Michael


----------



## GA Phaeton (Feb 15, 2006)

Has anyone put 275/45/18's on their Phaeton? I was wondering how they fit? I have been looking at the Michelin Pilot Primacy.
Regards
HB


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GA Phaeton)*

Hi Harry:
I'm not sure what weight ratings the Michelin tires come in - one of the problems I encountered when shopping for Phaeton tires was the limited number of choices available in the "103" weight rating that the Phaeton requires.
Michael


----------



## GA Phaeton (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

That has been the challenge, but the Pilot Primacy is available in the 103 weight. The 275/45/18 adds just a little to fill the wheel well. 
The 255/45/18 is:
Sidewall 4.5
Radius 13.5
Diameter 27.0
Circum. 84.9
Revs per mile 746.0
The 275/45/18 is
Sidewall 4.9
Radius 13.9
Diameter 27.7
Circum. 87.2
Revs per mile 727.0
The values are from the Miata Tire calculator.
Ideally I would like to find some Bentley rims as many have done. However I have not found a set for what I am willing to pay for them as yet. The fact remains, the baby needs tires. I was wondering if anyone has fit these ties and their experience.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (GA Phaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GA Phaeton* »_That has been the challenge, but the Pilot Primacy is available in the 103 weight.

I cannot recommend the Pilot Primacy -- I have them on my vehicle and they are very noisy.


----------



## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I'm just before ordering the Bridgestone Serenity. All I hear is good, and they exceed the weight requirement. Tire Rack will drop ship to my VW dealer, and they will install.
Ain't life grand? 
I'm just back from Angel Fire, NM. I rented a car- a brand new Mercury Milan, and got 27 mpg on regular. Regular in NM is as high as 93 octane in Dallas.
The Milan is a rather nice vehicle- not too many flies- but in no way comparable to my son's Azera. I tried out a new Ford 500- which has had a name change to Taurus. It was terrible. Rear view mirrors the size of a quarter. Very timid engine- maybe the same v-6 as in the Milan (221HP) in a much heavier car. 
It wasn't an economy measure. I just didn't want the miles on the Phaeton.


----------



## Woollman99 (Jan 27, 2007)

*Re: (Jack Orr)*

I just put on a new set of the Bridgestone Turanza's with Serenity. I've put on approx 4,000 miles on them and rate them very high. Very, very quiet tires and grippy. Much better tire than the OEM Michelins (and less expensive). Since they are all-season, the tread design looks like it should tackle the MN winter drives/commutes just fine.
Woollman


----------



## GA Phaeton (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Tire installation (Jack Orr)*

Jack,
Did you get the Goodyears? How do you like them?
Regards
Harry


----------



## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Can I use tires wider than 235/55 R 17 on 17'' wheel?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Kuwaity)*

I think the primary concern about using tires larger than what is specified in the owner manual is that the tire may rub on parts of the car when it is at the fully turned position *and *the suspension is fully extended or fully compressed. This may not be apparent if the tire is "test fitted" to the car while it is lifted up on a hoist, or when it is sitting still with no cornering forces applied to it.
I don't know the answer to your question, but I suggest you be very, very cautious if you elect to use a wider tire than the owner manual or maintenance manual specifies. 
Michael


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

While I certainly agree with your cautious approach, I would be surprised if you couldn't fit 245 or 255 tires on the 17" rims (assuming they will fit on the rims) as that tread width doesn't cause any problems on the 18" wheels.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*

The tire manufacturer's website will give you a range of rim widths on which a certain sized tire will fit. Also try something like Tire Rack -- they have that information available as well.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (car_guy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *car_guy* »_I would be surprised if you couldn't fit 245 or 255 tires on the 17" rims (assuming they will fit on the rims) as that tread width doesn't cause any problems on the 18" wheels.

Uh, I'm not so sure. I don't know a lot about tire sizing, but I think that as the tire diameter gets larger, the "height" of the tire gets smaller. Based on this assumption, I think that the smaller diameter tires might run the risk of bulging out at the sides more than the larger diameter tires.
Just a guess, not something I know to be true.
Michael


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Just a guess, not something I know to be true.

And, let's do not forget to take chine into account. (I know I'm going to regret bringing this up...







)


----------



## cwerfel (Sep 5, 2005)

*Re: (Woollman99)*

Woolman,
I just (yesterday) put the Bridgestone Serenity 255/45R18 XL 103W on my 2004 V8. They are VERY quiet and nice looking tires. It seems to me that the ride charactersitic of the car has changed significantly with these new treads. The Michelin 18 inch MXM4s I replaced *seemed* to give me a much more plush feeling ride. The Serenity gives the car a more nimble, tighter feel. Did you experience this? I am trying to determine if there really is that much of a difference or if this is all in my head.
Chris


----------



## Woollman99 (Jan 27, 2007)

*Re: (cwerfel)*

Chris, in all fairness, it's hard for me to accurately compare my new Bridgestones to the previous set of Michelins, as they were wore down and at the end of their usefulness when I purchased the Phaeton. My ride on the Michelins was rough and very noisy (as expected). I was able to milk out another 6,000 miles on the original set (36,000 total miles) while making up my mind on the replacement brand/set.
As far as the "plush ride", make sure your ride selector is set at the extreme comfort setting (versus sport). I've put over 6,500 miles on the Bridgestones (same size as yours) and absolutely love them. I can say that it's night and day difference.....sharp looking, very quiet tires, responsive and grippy, and provides a whole new feel to the car. I really like the ride and feel of these new tires. Plus they provide a 45,000 tire warranty
It would be safe to say it's not in your head. Enjoy the new skins....I am.


----------



## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Is there any one changed his 235/55/17 tires?
I have Bridgestone Toranza (OEM) on my car but they are almost 4 year old and done only 16300 km. any other tire recommendations?


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Tire installation (PanEuropean)*

Thanks to all of you, I was very well prepared when I went to inspect the car that I ultimately bought, and with which I am now obsessed.








One of the things I noticed, was that although the tires were almost new, they had a 99 load rating. I politely informed the dealer that it was my understanding that they were not safe for the car, and that a minimum of 103 (XL) was required. They verified this and without hesitation discounted the price of the car by $1,100, so that I could replace the tires.
I cannot say enough good things about this dealer, VW/Audi of Naples, Florida. They really impressed me with their approach to customer satisfaction. The internet sales manager, Dionys Brunner, was extremely professional and friendly, and was very patient and responsive to my MANY questions







Also, the used car manager and even the owner of the dealership introduced themselves and offered to help in any way they could.
So, now I am shopping for tires, and have it narrowed down to the Yokohama that Pan European has recommended, and the Bridgestone Serenity that some others of you have praised. 
Understand that this car will never see ice or snow, so long as we both shall live, unless there is another ice age that manages to cover Florida. So, it would seem the Yokohamas would be the obvious choice. However, on Tire Rack, the Serenity has such incredible survey ratings in every category, including road noise, that it's got me wondering.
Pan European wrote:
"This spring, I bought a set of 4 dedicated summer tires. They are far quieter than the OEM Michelin all-seasons, or anyone else's all-seasons for that matter."
Road noise is of critical importance to me, but good tread wear would be nice too, and there is a dramatic difference in their treadwear ratings. Must I conclude that the Yokohama is going to be even quieter than the Serenity, because it is a Summer tire, and not an all Season tire?
I look forward to your replies.
P.S. - The tires that are on the car now, and which have about 8/32" left, are Michelin HX MXM4 255/45/HR18 (99 Load Rating). Is there a market for them? I will have no place to store them, so when they come off the car I'm going to have to give them to the installer, unless there is someone who wants to buy them.


_Modified by remrem at 9:04 PM 2-21-2008_


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (remrem)*

I am actually going to go with the Kumho Ecstas when the time comes -- they're speed & load rated, a summer-only performance tire, have performed very highly in every comparison test and have almost twice the treadwear rating of the Yokohamas.


----------



## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (remrem)*

I have been Running the Mich 99 load rated fir about 16 months with no problem. If you look back at this thread explored the 99 vs the 103 load rating and had a Michelin Tire engineer check and verify it was ok. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2619062
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Tire Load ratings main diff between 103W & 99W (PanEuropean) » « » 8:15 AM 5-22-2006 

Michael. I understand that big difference in moving from the 103 to the 99. Found a guy selling some new 99W Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 tires for about less then half of the price of the 103W. (Michelin dealer going out of business-has 20 in inventory) I am very concerned about safety and asked my Michelin Truck tire guy his opinion and he felt there was minimal risk if any. 
The Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 is the same tire currently on my car and has worn well. I am only looking at changing as one of my tires currently has a sidewall cut. 
So I would be replacing all four tires . Two of them have 33,000 miles on them and the other two have 11,000 miles. 
This is the breakdown between the two tires.
Load Rating..............
Currently: 
103W 
1929 lbs per position = 7716 lbs total.
99W 
1709 lbs per position= 6836 lbs Total 
Total difference 880 lbs or 220 per tire position.
Just trying to decide if the price is worth the risk. 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_Thanks to all of you, I was very well prepared when I went to inspect the car that I ultimately bought, and with which I am now obsessed.








One of the things I noticed, was that although the tires were almost new, they had a 99 load rating. I politely informed the dealer that it was my understanding that they were not safe for the car, and that a minimum of 103 (XL) was required. They verified this and without hesitation discounted the price of the car by $1,100, so that I could replace the tires.
I cannot say enough good things about this dealer, VW/Audi of Naples, Florida. They really impressed me with their approach to customer satisfaction. The internet sales manager, Dionys Brunner, was extremely professional and friendly, and was very patient and responsive to my MANY questions







Also, the used car manager and even the owner of the dealership introduced themselves and offered to help in any way they could.
So, now I am shopping for tires, and have it narrowed down to the Yokohama that Pan European has recommended, and the Bridgestone Serenity that some others of you have praised. 
Understand that this car will never see ice or snow, so long as we both shall live, unless there is another ice age that manages to cover Florida. So, it would seem the Yokohamas would be the obvious choice. However, on Tire Rack, the Serenity has such incredible survey ratings in every category, including road noise, that it's got me wondering.
Pan European wrote:
"This spring, I bought a set of 4 dedicated summer tires. They are far quieter than the OEM Michelin all-seasons, or anyone else's all-seasons for that matter."
Road noise is of critical importance to me, but good tread wear would be nice too, and there is a dramatic difference in their treadwear ratings. Must I conclude that the Yokohama is going to be even quieter than the Serenity, because it is a Summer tire, and not an all Season tire?
I look forward to your replies.
P.S. - The tires that are on the car now, and which have about 8/32" left, are Michelin HX MXM4 255/45/HR18 (99 Load Rating). Is there a market for them? I will have no place to store them, so when they come off the car I'm going to have to give them to the installer, unless there is someone who wants to buy them.

_Modified by remrem at 9:04 PM 2-21-2008_


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_Total difference 880 lbs or 220 per tire position.
Just trying to decide if the price is worth the risk. 

I tell my customers the two things you don't mess with are brakes and tires. Where the rubber hits the road, so to speak.
The load rating difference between 99 and 103 is actually quite large. The German engineers are very serious about this sort of thing and I don't believe they would have set a requirement of 103 if 99 would have met all potential circumstances, emergency and otherwise. Sure, you got by with the 99 load rated tires, but are you willing to bet your life on never needing the higher rated tires? 
The risk of an individual not wearing his/her seatbelt is also statistically very low. But do you wear yours? Of course you do, because you understand the risk/gain equation in that case. It's just a bit harder to understand it in the case of the tires.
You are driving what is likely to be one of the safest cars made. Why do anything that might jeopardize that to save a few dollars?
Steven


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Tire installation (chrisj428)*

Hi Chris,
Thanks for the Kumho idea. I just went to their website, but I can't find any model there that has the 255/45/18 dimensions with an XL/ 103+ load rating. Which model are you planning to get?


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Tire installation (remrem)*

I probably should have mentioned that I'm going to a 275/40/19.








You might find the Sumitomo HTR Z III did very well in Tire Rack's tests -- first place (ahead of the Yokohama ADVAN Sports). The price is right and the customer reviews all seem very positive.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Tire installation (chrisj428)*

Thank you Chris.
Do you happen to know of anyone with a Phaeton who has tried these Sumitomos yet? The more I research, the more indecisive I've become. Now it's down to a choice of 3 tires - the Yokohama Advan Sport, Bridgestone Serenity, or the Sumitomo HTR Z III.
As we know, Pan European has the Yokohamas and is happy. Jack Orr has the Bridgestones and he sounds happy. Anyone out there tried the Sumitomos?


----------



## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: Tire installation (remrem)*

i have rum sumos, but on a subaru and was satisfied with them.


----------



## PHAETON8 (Feb 12, 2006)

*Tires?*

Looking for new tires. What brand and size are used on a new LWB phaeton.
Thanks, Steve


----------



## JulianBenjamin (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Tires? (PHAETON8)*

Mine came with Michelin Pilot MXM4 All-season, 255-45-R18 (18 inch wheels).
There's another thread either on the first or second page about tires (winter, all-season, summer) and what members recommended.
You just have to make sure any tire you get has a load rating (101+ I believe) that's suitable for the Phaeton's weight.


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Tires? (JulianBenjamin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JulianBenjamin* »_Mine came with Michelin Pilot MXM4 All-season, 255-45-R18 (18 inch wheels).
There's another thread either on the first or second page about tires (winter, all-season, summer) and what members recommended.
You just have to make sure any tire you get has a load rating (101+ I believe) that's suitable for the Phaeton's weight.

You can do better than the all-season Pilots that came on the car. First, if you don't drive in the snow, you should consider a summer tire.
You should find the other tire thread(s) for a lot more information
The LWB Phaeton requires a minimum load/speed rating of 103Y.
Steven


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Tires? (car_guy)*

Anybody happen to know what tires they now put on the new Phaetons in Europe; specifically the W12 and V8 LWB? 
Since it seems that the Michelin OEM's that came on all of our NAR cars are out of production (or so I'm told), I wonder what the wizards of Dresden are now installing?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tires? (remrem)*

Whatever they are installing (I don't know the details), they won't be all-season tires, which is what was supplied on all the North American Phaetons. In the rest of the world, the car comes with either summer tires or winter tires, depending on what time of year you take delivery of it.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

At the moment, the OEM tyre for the W12 is the Bridgestone Potenza RE050 Asymmetric.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Tires? (PanEuropean)*

When I was purchasing my W12 in February from an Audi/VW dealer who had taken the car in trade, I noticed that the previous owner had recently replaced the factory Michelins with brand new tires. At first glance, it appeared that the replacements were the same Michelin OEM's (the Pilot HX MXM4 model). However, thanks to having read through this forum, I looked at the load rating label, and it said 99. I pointed this out to the dealer, and said that although it was great that the tires were practically new, they were under-rated and potentially unsafe for the car. To their credit, they reduced the purchase price by $1,100 so that I could replace them. While I pondered what replacement tires to choose, I continued to drive (very carefully) on the under-rated Michelins.
After researching this forum, Tirerack, and any other sources I could Google, I decided to go with the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity. My most important criterion was NOISE! Yes, handling, wet and dry traction, comfort, and tread life are also important, but if the tire is noisy, then forget it.
Since my car will never see snow so long as we both shall live, I was inclined to go with a Summer tire, but other than Pan European all other information sources insisted that a good all season touring tire like the Serenity will always be quieter than a Summer performance tire. Everything I read about the Serenity, including posts from fellow forum members had me expecting a very quiet tire. 
Well, maybe my ears are more sensitive than others, but I hated these tires. Of course, on new and smooth surfaces, they were very quiet, as almost any tire is. But on most other surfaces, not only did I find them a bit noisy, but I found the particular _frequencies_ they emitted very annoying. The most egregious effect of this was that it intruded and spoiled my enjoyment of the fantastic stereo system we are so lucky to have. 
I also found the Serenity less comfortable than the Michelins that had just been on the car. After about 500 miles or so I returned them, thanks to the 30 day trial that Bridgestone offers, and thanks to the return process that was very easy thanks to Tirerack. Yes, I had to pay shipping and dismounting charges, but I didn't care. I just wanted those things off of my baby!
I then ordered the Yokohama Advan Sport that Pan European likes so much. What a difference! Are they _always_ silent? No. Perhaps because I am so attuned to noise, I will always be listening for it. However, these tires are generally super quiet, and when they do emit noise the character of the sounds are muted and not annoying. Furthermore, they are supremely comfortable and handle beautifully, even in the wet. All the experts tell me that I should withhold my enthusiasm, as they predict that these tires will wear out very quickly and will soon become noisy. Well, only time will tell. I only have about 600 miles on them so far. I will report back to all of you as I put more miles on them.
By the way, I've noticed a lot of posts mentioning that it's hard, if not impossible to buy the original Michelins OEM's. Some have posted that they think they have been discontinued. In my research, I have determined that the Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 in the XL 103 load rating is still very much alive and well. In fact, although Tirerack does not show them as an option for our cars when you search on their site, if you call them they will happily get them for you.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Tires? (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_I then ordered the Yokohama Advan Sport that Pan European likes so much. What a difference! Are they _always_ silent? 















Generally speaking, yes.

_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_All the experts tell me that I should withhold my enthusiasm, as they predict that these tires will wear out very quickly...

That was what I was told also. But, no-one seems to have told the tires themselves of that expectation. I'm a pretty relaxed driver, I don't push the car hard at all, I have 10,000 miles on them now (including one cross-continent trip) and the tires have accumulated 1 mm of tread wear... which suggests I should get 50K miles out of them if this rate continues.
I'm very happy.
Michael


----------



## mattsimis (Sep 19, 2005)

I have the Falken 452s in 275-35-20. Im finding them fairly quiet, good handling and nice bump absorbtion compared to the Pirelli PNeros that were on it.
However Im noticing a slight judder through the steering wheel at 52-55mph. Not at any other speed and only on good roads with suspension set to 3/4 or 4/4 (full sport). Imagination or balancing issue?


----------



## Debart (May 26, 2008)

*Re: (mattsimis)*

Hi,
I have Dunlop 255 40 R19 now. I've found very nice tires "Vredestein Ultrac Sessanta 275/35R20 102 Y". What is the maximum size of tire/rim for phaeton? Is it possible to "wear" 315 30 R21? I see at the forum there is no problem with 275 35 R20. Which size is max for NA not lowered phaeton?


_Modified by Debart at 4:13 PM 7-6-2008_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Debart)*

Hello Debart:
The largest approved wheel and tire combination is 19 inch wheels. Beyond that, you are on your own.
My personal experience is that the most comfortable ride is on the 17 or 18 inch wheels. As soon as you move up to 19 inch, the ride quality degrades and you feel all the bumps on the road.
Michael


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi everyone,
I think I saw somewhere that on 4-motion cars, it was important to get 4 tyres that were evenly used. Right now, I have P9000 Dunlop tyres on the car that I purchased that are 8mm deep on the front, and only 5mm deep on the rear.
Any problem to expect from this 3mm difference ?
Thanks for your answers,
Z.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Zaphh)*

Hi Zaph:
I doubt very much if that tiny difference in treadwear will even be noticed by the car. The requirement for fitting four tires of the same size on four wheel drive cars speaks to the *published* size of the tire, not to treadwear that may have taken place.
Michael


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Zaph:
I doubt very much if that tiny difference in treadwear will even be noticed by the car. The requirement for fitting four tires of the same size on four wheel drive cars speaks to the *published* size of the tire, not to treadwear that may have taken place.
Michael

Not according to TireRack. See http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...id=18
"Here are recommendations from some of the manufactures that the Tire Rack currently serves for matching the tires used on their four-wheel drive and all-wheel drive vehicles. Additional recommendations from other Original Equipment Vehicle Manufacturers is pending.

Audi	As published in their vehicle owner's manual, "rolling radius of all 4 tires must remain the same" or within 4/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth.

Porsche	Cayenne within 30% of the other tire on the same axle's remaining treadwear.

Subaru	Within 1/4-inch of tire circumference or about 2/32-inch of each other in remaining tread depth."
TireRack has a tire tread shaving service so you can buy one new tire to replace a damaged tire on an AWD or 4WD car.
Please note I am in no way associated with TireRack other than occasionally buying tires from them. I have not verified any of this information, either.
Steven


----------



## Pink Panther (Jul 17, 2006)

*Re: (car_guy)*

I run Toyo Proxes ST 255/50-18 and siped them. I even changed my spare, it fit perfectly with no modifications needed. I get a smoother ride, sometimes too smooth for rain, so i increase suspension firmness, resulting in perfect feel of road.
Before making the change i compared the 19inch tire on the audi a8. there was so little tiny room between the suspension joint and tire, that i felt if Audi put it on their car as a standard wheel and called it safe, then the 255/50-18 would be Safe too which actually has slightly more room between tire and joint than the audi's 19".
Gas mileage is hard to figure since speed and mileage are not accurate, but the shift points are better. With standard size, i felt the car lagged right when i needed to get going, especially when making left turns, the shift point left me in the center median with no 'get out of the way' power. All resolved with the 255/50 size.
Hope this helps you'all! http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...80547#
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...80547#


----------



## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Steven,
I can confirm your data, at least for Acura: our RL was recently involved in a minor fender bender that resulted in a nick on the side wall of the front passenger tire. I checked with Acura and was told that both tires on each axle have to be within 4/32 of each other. Since ours are down to approx. 30%, I had to buy two new tires (I was not aware of the tirerack shaving service). Perhaps predictably, the insurance refused to pay for the second tire, and pro-rated the cost of the first.
Stefano


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## Hamersly (Feb 28, 2007)

*Yokohama Advan Sports and Load Rating Tale*

I replaced my Continental Pro Contacs with a set of the Yokohama Advan Sports on Friday, and can vouch for Pan European's assessment: these tires are extremely grippy and just dead quiet on any pavement that is even passably smooth. Much quieter than I would have thought a Z rated tire could be. If they turn out to be as blissfully unaware of their wear rating as Pan European's have been, I'll be a happy camper indeed.
I also have a cautionary tale on the load rating issue, which concerns the reason I had to buy new tires. When I bought my used W12 a year and a half ago, it had the new Continentals on it. I had driven the car for several months before I read on the forum that their 99 load rating was nearly adequate but not recommended for the car. Last weekend, I made my first extended trip of over 8 hours at highway speeds. The combined weight of people and stuff in the car was about 400 pounds. When I got near home and my speed dropped below 50, I noticed the car didn't feel right. I took it to my local Discount Tire, and sure enough the belts in one if the rear tires had separated slightly, creating a hump. They put the spare on that wheel and ordered the Yokohamas for me. I can't swear the tire failed because of it's load rating, but I can tell you I'll never put tires on the car with a load rating under 103.


----------



## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: Yokohama Advan Sports and Load Rating Tale (Hamersly)*

For those that have the Advan Sport, do you live in an area where you encounter winter weather. Coverning the state of Tennessee for work, I see a variety of conditions in the winter and wonder if this summer tire will be sufficient given the all wheel drive of the Phaeton.
The other tire I am considering is the Bidgestone Turanza Serenity which is an all season tire.
Thanks,
George


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Yokohama Advan Sports and Load Rating Tale (oldham4)*

The Advan Sport is definitely ONLY a Summer tire, and should never be used in snow or ice. Living in Florida, this is a not a concern for me. However, if you read Pan European's comments in the aforementioned thread, you will see that he and others keep 2 sets of tires (and wheels) and change them out during the year. Of course, an all-season tire might be suitable for your area of the country.


----------



## maseratiman (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: Yokohama Advan Sports and Load Rating Tale (remrem)*

for those considering upgrading to 19" tire/wheel, I highly recommend the Pirelli PZero Rosso tire. Although not recommended for winter driving, these are great non-winter tires and I have been extremely happy with them. Very quiet, great handling, and wear has been surprisingly good.


----------



## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

*Wider tires,and N3000 please.*

Please sethdallob update the status and your opinion on the N3000 as I am considering new tires for Florida.
Has anybody put wider tires on the original 18" wheels that will fit the Phaeton V8. The original Michelins are coming to an end with 23K.
This is the most troublefree car I've ever had. Superb.


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Wider tires,and N3000 please. (carlosMIA)*

I put Avon Tech 550s on my 18s. I've had them on for a couple thousand miles. They are great, quiet, nice ride, and great value.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: Wider tires,and N3000 please. (Stinky999)*

I have bad memories from the 4 Avon tyres that were on the Jag I bought back in '91. All of them lost their shape quite badly before being worn out (tread-wise) and had to replace them. The Dunlop SP Sport that replaced them were like night and day, and never deformed on the very same car, so the problem did not come from the car. Maybe things have changed since then, but I won't be buying Avon tyres again.


----------



## VWVictoria (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: Tire installation (Jack Orr)*

I think that one of the best deals out there right now are the Bentley take offs from the Flying Spurs ant the GTs the first set I bought had 250 miles on them and the second set had 50. I bought them on eBay, for $1035 for the 1st set and $1225 for the second set. I am just going to put the second set in the shed till I wear the first ones out.
I used the TPMS sensors from my VW wheels as the Bentley ones are not compatible with the Phaeton. For the center caps I did a bit of work with a dremel tool to the ones off my old caps and the fit right in.
Jeff








Ida perched in the front yard.









Closeup of her new shoes.

















Notice the detail around the emblem?


----------



## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Wider tires,and N3000 please. (Zaphh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Zaphh* »_I have bad memories from the 4 Avon tyres that were on the Jag I bought back in '91.

Avon was purchased by Cooper in '97. Modern Avons sold in the US are made in the US, presumably alongside the Coopers. I'm guessing that Cooper may have had the same effect on Avon as Ford did on Jag, i.e., the new ones are probably a little better. 


_Modified by chrisj428 at 5:20 PM 8-25-2008_


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Wider tires,and N3000 please. (Stinky999)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stinky999* »_I'm guessing that Cooper may have had the same effect on Avon as Ford did on Jag, i.e., the new ones are probably a little better.

I believe GoBuster attempted a set of Avons on his Phaeton and ended up not being able to get them balanced properly...might want to check with him first (not that a balancing issue is going to be endemic to all their tires, but worth an IM).


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: Wider tires,and N3000 please. (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
I believe GoBuster attempted a set of Avons on his Phaeton and ended up not being able to get them balanced properly...might want to check with him first (not that a balancing issue is going to be endemic to all their tires, but worth an IM).

I didn't have any problems, but I use a good installer, KO in Elk Grove Village. They have probably done 8 sets of tires for me over the last few years, off road tires for the Rover to DOT race rubber for the 911. No issues ever.


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## VWVictoria (Oct 1, 2007)

*Re: Tire installation (VWVictoria)*

The guy I bought these from just called me and let me know that he has a set in chrome. If anyone is interested let me know and I can give you his phone number.
Jeff


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## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: (sethdallob)*

What exact model do you have as Nexen N3000 has a few. Are you still happy with them, how are they in the rain, noise and brake, any problems with balancing. Thanks for your prompt answer as i have to buy them now.


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

WARNING on the Avon Tech Tires. I have them & hate them. They are exceptionally noisy & tend to quite a little after long driving. This indicates to me that they deform & return to round with wear. I am replacing ASAP once I determine if I need new TPMS sensors.
TireRack has customer ratings that echo the same sentiment.


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## calmone (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: (carlosMIA)*

perhaps i'm not overly aware of the differences between tires, but i've been happy with the nexen3000 that i've had for about 6 months. i think they compare favorably with the pilots which came with the car (04 w12). no problem balancing them. they are directional, but obviously the installer will be aware of that from looking at them.


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

I just put on the Bridgestone Turanza Serenity yesterday & they are amazing compared to the Avon Tech M550 tires. From my perspective, if you can afford the Phaeton and the accoutrements associated with it (ie gas for V8 or W12), then step up for better tires than Avon Tech.


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## JulianBenjamin (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re:*

I just bought a set of Cooper Zeon Sport A/S (http://www.coopertire.com/html/products/tires_uhp.aspx?page=zeon_sport_as). They have a 45-day trial, and it's getting installed next Friday. Anyone have any experience with them? I figure if they don't work well, I'll exchange them for the Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Re: (JulianBenjamin)*

I'm not familiar with these tires, and am not aware of any Phaeton owners having ever posted about them. I went to the Cooper Tire website that you referenced and they look promising, and was glad to see that they are XL rated, as they should be. Since it doesn't seem to be a brand that Tire Rack carries, have you found anyplace on the internet that reviews this tire?
What tires are you replacing- the OEM Michelins? Have you considered the two sets of tires approach as PanEuropean does (see his posts earier in this thread)? An all-season tire is often a compromise, and the 2 set approach isn't as expensive as it sounds. 
Very anxious to hear about your experience with the Coopers. Please keep us informed. Thank you.


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## SVESSA (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: (cwerfel)*

I had the Bridgestone Serenitys installed on my car about 600 miles ago. So far, I couldn't be happier with them. Very quiet, and respond very well. Looks great on the car too!
Scott


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## JulianBenjamin (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Re: (remrem)*

I don't remember the site I saw the reviews on. Might be Mavis (where I bought the tires as well).
I did consider the two sets approach, but in Long Island we hardly get any snow, and if we do, it's gone within a couple of days or so. I am replacing the stock Michelins; they've lasted about 36k miles, but found they aren't the greatest in even light snow (skid out last year).
I noticed Tire Rack didn't carry them; wonder why. I'll be getting them installed this Friday, but probably won't have the car back until the week after as it's going in for a couple of replacements (drivers cup holder button broke, passenger memory functions don't work) for which they'll have to order parts. I'll keep you all posted on the new tires.


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## JulianBenjamin (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: Cooper Tires*

Well, I got the car back on Wednesday with the new tires; today I took it out for about an hour and a half drive. Tires felt fine; not any louder or softer than I remembered the Michelins to be. I'm waiting for a rain day to see how it handles in it, but since I don't really push the car, I doubt I'd notice any difference. I'll update this thread at 5k miles or so.
edit. picture of the car with the new tires. I think the car looks good; tires look beefier, possibly because of the rim guard. 
http://www.spartangroupllc.com...1.JPG
http://www.spartangroupllc.com...2.JPG
http://www.spartangroupllc.com...3.JPG
http://www.spartangroupllc.com...4.JPG


_Modified by JulianBenjamin at 10:34 PM 11-28-2008_


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## Kenzdriving (Dec 4, 2007)

*Re: Tire installation (VWVictoria)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWVictoria* »_. For the center caps I did a bit of work with a dremel tool to the ones off my old caps and the fit right in.
Jeff








Ida perched in the front yard.









Closeup of her new shoes. <IMG NAME="icon" SRC="http://www.vwvortex.com/vwbb/cool.gif" BORDER="0"> 









Notice the detail around the emblem?









Jeff,
Can you expand on what you did to fit the VW emblems on the Bentley center caps? My car came with 19" Bentley wheels, the OEM wheels and caps are long gone. Could I take a set fo the VW stickers the dealer sells and apply them? Whatever you did seems more involved than that, so I'd appreciate a better understanding of what that was.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (car_guy)*

I have an important question, but first some background:
A sheet metal screw punctured one of my Yokohama Advan Sports the other day. My dealer says the puncture is too close to the sidewall to be patched, so I have to buy a new tire. I purchased these tires last June and only have about 7,000 miles on them. I measured their tread and there is between 5/32" and 6/32" remaining, which shows that they are wearing much faster than I had hoped. I know that PanEuropean is getting much less wear on his, but I suspect the roads here in south Florida are probably much harsher and much hotter than those in Vancouver. not to mention that my driving style is often "spirited". Nevertheless, despite the disappointing wear rate, I love the tires for all the reasons stated earlier in this thread and still highly recommend them for summer tires.

Now, my question is - should I have Tire Rack first shave the new tire, or should I just put a brand new one on the car? I don't want to stress the all wheel drive components, but it seems I'm just on the edge of the criteria for acceptable tread depth difference (see posts at top of this page), and shaving tires is something that I don't know much about and wonder if there are potential downsides to having it done. Your opinions and comments please


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_Now, my question is - should I have Tire Rack first shave the new tire, or should I just put a brand new one on the car? I don't want to stress the all wheel drive components, but it seems I'm just on the edge of the criteria for acceptable tread depth difference (see posts at top of this page), and shaving tires is something that I don't know much about and wonder if there are potential downsides to having it done. Your opinions and comments please

The new tire tread depth is probably 10/32". You can confirm this at TireRack under specifications. I think putting this on with some tires at 5/32" may not be a good idea. I would shave it. Why not? If you don't, when the other three wear out this will be worn and you probably won't put three new tires on with it. 
Remember that you don't want to wear your tires down much past 4/32" as wet braking is severely compromised. TireRack has an interesting report and video on wet braking comparing tires with 2/32" (the _legal_ U.S. limit) and 4/32". 
Steven


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Thanks Steven,
Good logic and good advice. Much appreciated.


----------



## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (remrem)*

What's on your spare? If it's new and matches, buy one and use spare. If it doesn't match buy two, and put the good used on in as spare.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (Auzivision)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Auzivision* »_What's on your spare? If it's new and matches, buy one and use spare. If it doesn't match buy two, and put the good used on in as spare. 

Thanks very much. That's also good advice and logic. My spare is one of the original OEM Michelins. This is my first time ever using it since I bought the car last year, and it too coincidentally has about 6/32" remaining. However, rather than purchase 2 new tires at this time, I've decided to go ahead and get the one shaved tire from Tire Rack. I know it seems like a waste of rubber, but I'd really like all 4 tires to have about the same wear and thus circumference. I realize that it is more important for tires on the same axle to have approximately the same wear, but from what I've read here and on the Tire Rack site, it is ideal for our all wheel drive vehicles to be matched on all four "corners". Not to mention the fact that I'd rather not shell out $600 at the moment, and all because of a 10 cent sheet metal screw!








SIDE NOTE: I mentioned in previous posts in this thread that one of the main reasons I originally went with the Yokohamas is that they are very quiet. I think it's worth mentioning that there is a lot of noise coming from my spare tire (OEM Michelin), while the other 3 tires are still relatively silent.








ANOTHER SIDE NOTE: When speaking with Tire Rack about all of this, I mentioned my disappointment in how fast the Yokohamas had been wearing. They said they were not terribly surprised, but that I should expect the remaining tread to wear a bit slower since it becomes a harder compound as the tire wears down. Does this sound right? Assuming it is, I will still probably only get a total of 15,000 miles out of them










_Modified by remrem at 11:13 AM 2-17-2009_


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (remrem)*

Got my Yokohama installed today. It cost an extra $25 from Tire Rack to have it shaved down to 7/32". The car is once again quiet, handles beautifully and feels happy, which makes me happy








In some ways this was a positive experience, because it has confirmed how great these tires are. For the past week I have lived with that OEM Michelin spare and the noise from that tire was miserable. I don't care if I only end up getting half the tread life of the Michelin, it will be worth it. So, contrary to popular and expert opinion I do firmly believe that a summer tire (or at least this summer tire) can be quieter than an all season.


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: Tires? (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_Anybody happen to know what tires they now put on the new Phaetons in Europe; specifically the W12 and V8 LWB? 

I lifted this from the 2008 UK brochure which is posted at: https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/a...e.pdf

01 ‘Inspiration’ 71⁄2J x 17" with 235/55 R17 tyres
Standard on 3.0 V6 TDI DPF 4MOTION and
4.2 V8 4MOTION LWB
02 ‘Innovation’ 81⁄2J x 18" with 255/45 R18 tyres
Standard on 6.0 W12 4MOTION LWB
Optional on 3.0 V6 TDI DPF 4MOTION LWB and
4.2 V8 4MOTION LWB
03 ‘Imagine’ 71⁄2J x 17" with 235/55 R17 tyres
Optional on 3.0 V6 TDI DPF 4MOTION/LWB and
4.2 V8 4MOTION LWB
04 ‘Spirit’ 81⁄2J x 18" with 235/50 R18 tyres
Optional on 3.0 V6 TDI DPF 4MOTION
05 ‘Challenge’ 81⁄2J x 18" with 255/45 R18 tyres
Optional on 3.0 V6 TDI DPF 4MOTION/LWB and
4.2 V8 4MOTION LWB
06 ‘Performance’ 81⁄2J x 18" with 255/45 R18 tyres
Optional on all models
07 ‘Aristoteles’ 81⁄2J x 18" with 255/45 R18 tyres
Optional on all models
08 ‘Helios’ 81⁄2J x 19" with 255/40 R19 tyres
Optional on 3.0 V6 TDI DPF 4MOTION/LWB and
4.2 V8 4MOTION LWB
09 ‘Omanyt’ 9J x 19" with 255/40 R19 tyres
Optional on 3.0 V6 TDI DPF 4MOTION/LWB and
4.2 V8 4MOTION LWB
The tyre fitted on each wheel meets the highest load specification for which that wheel is recommended. Thus, although my vehicle is a 3 litre tdi it came with 'Aristoteles' wheels which had factory-fitted tyres with a 103Y load rating even though VW specifies a 99Y load rating for the 3-litre model.
I'd be interested to know whether using an over-rated tyre load specification has an adverse effect on ride comfort.


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

Thanks Maseratiman, 8-15-08
"for those considering upgrading to 19" tire/wheel, I highly recommend the Pirelli PZero Rosso tire. Although not recommended for winter driving, these are great non-winter tires and I have been extremely happy with them. Very quiet, great handling, and wear has been surprisingly good."
What pressures are you running these at? The Goodyyear dealer that I trust, set them at 31psi cold. They look a little low on my W12. 
And maybe someone could explain to a moron like me why pressures are different with different wheel sizes.
They run wonderfully at these pressures, great grip and comfort, but I think I may have twice as much rubber on the road that I should have.
Thanks, 
Mike


----------



## brezle (Feb 22, 2007)

*Soliciting Insights on 3 Tires*

Gentlemen,
I need 4 replacement tires for my 2004 NAR V8 = 255/45R18 103(??)
Here's what I've narrowed it down to:
a) Continental ContiSportContact 3 ($257/each on tirerack.com)
b) Yokohama ADVAN Sport ($257/each on tirerack.com)
c) Bridgestone Turanza Serenity ($285/each on tirerack.com)
I know all of these are fine tires (all expensive as hell, of course), so I know either way I'm getting a great set. I know the grip and handling on the contisports and yokos is excellent, but the tread life on them isn't as good as the Turanzas, with the yokos having the worst of the 3 (most people say you get about a year out of the Yokos or ~15k miles?)
I've read everyone's comments and opinions on this thread, thank you for all this good info. Now, a few questions:
1) Does anyone have personal knowledge of how these tires performed or compare to each other through use on a car as heavy as the Phaeton?
2) Any idea how much better the tread life is on the ContiSports v. Advan? In terms of miles?
3) Is there a significant noise reduction / ride smoothness change between these? (I'm guessing the Turanzas have the smoothest, quietest ride?)
4) If I like a performance driving feel, will I be losing much by going with the Turanzas over the Contis/Advans?
5) Anyone know if there is an all-season tire from Continental/Yoko/Bridgestone that gives similar performance to the ContiSport's Advan's *that will fit the Phaeton*? 








Thanks in advance for any advice/anecdotes you can give.
-mike


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## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season(Ultra High Performance All-Season)*

Has anyone used these tires recently? and is the noise problem as bad as the reviewers make it out to be in Tire Rack?
I thought I read about someone in this thread thinking about installing this tire, but I did not see a follow-up evaluation. 
Thank you,
cai


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Soliciting Insights on 3 Tires (brezle)*

Hello Mike,
All very good questions. It's nice to see someone else agonizing over this issue the way I did last year








I will say that I think if you carefully re-read this entire thread, that you will actually find that some of your questions have already been answered, although admittedly much of this is based on opinion and varied perspectives.
With regard to your question #3: 
_"Is there a significant noise reduction / ride smoothness change between these? (I'm guessing the Turanzas have the smoothest, quietest ride?"..._
You will read in one of my earlier posts that I actually purchased the Turanzas, tried them out, returned them and got the Yokohamas. You will also read that I concluded from that experience that contrary to popular and expert opinion alike, it is possible for a "summer" tire (the Yokohama) to be quieter than an all season touring tire (the Turanza Serenities). At least that was my perception, and I doubt anyone else here has conducted the same real world back-to-back test that I did on these two tires.
You will also read that Pan European is having excellent tread life experience with his Yokohamas. Me, not so much, perhaps because of the heat and lousy road surfaces we have here in south Florida and/or because of my "spirited" driving style. Nevertheless, I don't care, I would rather have to replace quiet tires more frequently than put up with noisy tires - period!
This all having been said, I don't think there is a "perfect" tire out there and there are plenty of Phaeton owners here who are thrilled with their Turanza Serenities and find them to be very quiet - so who knows








So, good luck with whatever choice you make. If you want to go through all the trouble (and a bit of the extra expense) that I did, you might want to see which tires have the 30 day return policy and put them on your car first and give them a try.
Any questions or comments, please don't hesitate.
Regards,
Ron



_Modified by remrem at 7:15 PM 4-22-2009_


----------



## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season(Ultra High Performance All-Season) (cai)*

I have the Nexen N3000 and have been very happy with them. They are quiet and very reasonably priced.


----------



## ZOG (Apr 5, 2008)

Just installed Sumitomo HTZ III's on my w12. Absolutely fantastic price ($162 @ tirerack)...noticebly quieter, stickier and stiffer sidewalls than the oem michelins. Comparison made after break in making the same 350 mile trips within 2 weeks of each set! Couldn't be happier. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by ZOG at 6:51 PM 6-2-2009_


----------



## ZOG (Apr 5, 2008)

Just installed Sumitomo HTZ III's on my w12. Absolutely fantastic price ($162 @ tirerack)...noticebly quieter, stickier and stiffer sidewalls than the oem michelins. Comparison made after break in making the same 350 trips within 2 weeks of each set!


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Chris and all:
I have followed the tire thread and understand what tire specification is designed and should be on my Phaeton(2004 V8). My car was a CPO and has been maintained exclusively by VW since delivery and that includes replacement tires. I have been dealing with quite a bit more road noise than would be normal for a car of this quality. I wondered about wheel bearings or tires but my VW dealer confirmed that wheel bearings were OK but tires were slightly cupping. As a courtesy, he rotated the tires for free to help "even" out the tires and hopefully reduce the road noise. I do think it helped as well as the fact that the noise seemed to move from back to front. 
The car has Michelin Pilots all around and I initially assumed that they were OEM replacements. However, in examining the tires more closely I see that they are all load rating 99 rather than the 103 that is "required." Keep in mind that these tires were installed at VW dealership for the original owner. 
So my dilemma is, should I replace the tires immediately or continue to drive being mindful about loading the car with people and cargo? To help with your input, one tire has about 19k miles, two are at about 12k miles, and the last has only 7k miles(info gleaned from VW service records). So I also have some concern for differing rolling circumferences of the tires on the AWD Phaeton. The load rating on a 103 tire is 1929 lbs per tire. That on a 99 load rated tire is 1709 lbs per tire. In addition, I can afford new tires if I decide, after your input, that this is the best decision. But it will hurt throwing away those expensive Michelin tires that still have decent treadlife.
I've been wavering back and forth but my wife has not. After explaining the situation to her, the decision was simple. Her logic goes like this - if it says 103 is the correct load rating and you are running 99s, BUY NEW TIRES. She's the rule follower in the household.
I value any and all input received from The Forum.


----------



## carlosMIA (Apr 30, 2006)

*Re: Goodyear Eagle F1 All Season(Ultra High Performance All-Season) (ruddyone)*

I have Nexen 3000 and I am very happy with them, noise wise, braking and big rain.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (Jxander)*

Jim,
If you already read through this thread, then you are aware that I experienced the exact same dilemma that you now face. When I purchased my pre-owned Phaeton (from a VW dealer) it had practically brand new Michelins, but when I looked closely I too saw the 99 load rating. While I was deciding (agonizing actually) what tires to choose as replacements, I drove on them for about 3 months. I was very careful not to put excessive stresses and loads on them, because their inadequacy was *always* in the back of my mind. Bottom line is - listen to your wife! In my opinion, and the opinion of some of the other forum members, tires and brakes are the two things with which you never want to take any shortcuts.
As for which replacement tires to get, well that's more debatable and subjective, but if you re-read this thread, I think you will find many interesting points of view on the subject.
P.S. - Any chance you could get the dealer who sold you the car to compensate you for the tires? When I brought this issue to the attention of the VW dealer who was selling me the car and showed him in the owner's manual the specified load rating and explained that what he was selling me was potentially unsafe, he seemed embarrassed and concerned and immediately discounted the price to compensate me for the cost of the replacements.
Best of luck,
Ron


_Modified by remrem at 9:55 PM 6-15-2009_


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (remrem)*

Ron:
Thanks for your advice. I actually called Phaeton Customer Care today and asked them about the tires and the load rating dilemma. They essentially said they should be replaced with the 103 rating or be careful with loading. I had hoped they would go a little further and suggest that VW(CPOed) or the dealer help a bit since they should be embarrassed just as your dealer was. I'll give my dealer a try since they have serviced the car since new and were responsible for installing the wrong tires. I don't mind the dealer covering their tire & labor costs on this, I just would like them to not profit on this one.


----------



## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (remrem)*

Ron and all:
I did replace all four under-load rated Michelins with Bridgestone Turanza Serenities which are properly sized and load rated at 103. The dealer did price-match Tirerack and they then did the install. Tire noise is gone and my Phaeton is quiet like a good luxury car should be. In addition to eliminating excess road noise the new tires seem much more "stable" when turning corners at speed. I assume the sidewall is a little stronger due to the higher load rating.
My wife is much relieved to have tires with the proper load rating and we are both looking forward to a road trip to Atlanta in July. Life is good again.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (Jxander)*

Congratulations Jim,
Now you can enjoy your Phaeton the way it was meant to be, knowing that the tires can safely deliver whatever you ask of them. Of course, I'm sure the best part of your decision is listening to your wife saying she told ya so








Best regards,
Ron


----------



## MadMacStew (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_Congratulations Jim,
Now you can enjoy your Phaeton the way it was meant to be, knowing that the tires can safely deliver whatever you ask of them. Of course, I'm sure the best part of your decision is listening to your wife saying she told ya so








Best regards,
Ron

Not to suggest that anyone's wife could *ever* be wrong







, but it does rather depend which Phaeton you have. They no longer sell the V8 in the UK, but the 3.0 TDI diesel engine is very close to the same weight as the petrol V8 (if not a little heavier), and the car is supplied as standard on 235/55/17 Y99 tyres - also specified in the owner's manual. The mighty (and mighty heavy) W12 is a different matter, of course!


_Modified by MadMacStew at 6:33 AM 6-24-2009_


----------



## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (Jxander)*

Jim,
On my recently purchased 2006 Phaeton that was a CPO car it had 99 tires on it and they were brand new. The dealer indicated that the car had come from a VW auction in CA and it had the tires put on there. Since they were new tires and my 2004 had 99 tires on it I decided not to make a big deal of it. I'm in the trucking business and back in 2006 had my Michelin guy verify there were not any safety issues with running 99 tires. 
Here is the info that was posted in a link back in 2006.
I personally wouldn't run them if I thought they were unsafe. Now if you have 5 passengers and are only running highway miles perhaps you should run the 103 tires. 
If you had a 12 Cyl you should run the 103 tires because of the weight being so much greater then the 8 Cyl. 
This is the breakdown between the two tires.
Load Rating..............
Currently: 
103W 
1929 lbs per position = 7716 lbs total.
99W 
1709 lbs per position= 6836 lbs Total 
Total difference 880 lbs or 220 per tire position.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (MadMacStew)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MadMacStew* »_
Not to suggest that anyone's wife could *ever* be wrong







, but it does rather depend which Phaeton you have. They no longer sell the V8 in the UK, but the 3.0 TDI diesel engine is very close to the same weight as the petrol V8 (if not a little heavier), and the car is supplied as standard on 235/55/17 Y99 tyres - also specified in the owner's manual. The mighty (and mighty heavy) W12 is a different matter, of course!

_Modified by MadMacStew at 6:33 AM 6-24-2009_

Curious- are you referring to the LWB or the SWB model with the TDI, as there is signifcant weight difference (about 225 kg) between the 2 models?


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_Jim,
On my recently purchased 2006 Phaeton that was a CPO car it had 99 tires on it and they were brand new. The dealer indicated that the car had come from a VW auction in CA and it had the tires put on there. Since they were new tires and my 2004 had 99 tires on it I decided not to make a big deal of it. I'm in the trucking business and back in 2006 had my Michelin guy verify there were not any safety issues with running 99 tires. 
Here is the info that was posted in a link back in 2006.
I personally wouldn't run them if I thought they were unsafe. Now if you have 5 passengers and are only running highway miles perhaps you should run the 103 tires. 
If you had a 12 Cyl you should run the 103 tires because of the weight being so much greater then the 8 Cyl. 
This is the breakdown between the two tires.
Load Rating..............
Currently: 
103W 
1929 lbs per position = 7716 lbs total.
99W 
1709 lbs per position= 6836 lbs Total 
Total difference 880 lbs or 220 per tire position.


Hi Larry,
I know this issue has been debated here for years, and that you are far more knowledgable on the subject than I, but wouldn't it be best just to follow the recommendations in the manufacturer's owners manual and thus eliminate all doubt? After all, the VW engineers must have had some reason for determining the 103 load rating specifications for all North American Phaetons







Or, do you think perhaps it was one of those legal "C.Y.A." decisions rather than an engineering based one?
Best regards,
Ron


_Modified by remrem at 10:54 PM 7-3-2009_


----------



## MadMacStew (Apr 20, 2009)

*Re: (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_
Curious- are you referring to the LWB or the SWB model with the TDI, as there is signifcant weight difference (about 225 kg) between the 2 models?

Mine is the SWB version, agreed there is a significant weight difference between it and the W12, which is only available as LWB. In fact, those are currently the only two engine options available in the UK, as opposed to the 7 (!) available for the Audi A8.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_...
This is the breakdown between the two tires.
Load Rating..............
Currently: 
103W 
1929 lbs per position = 7716 lbs total.
99W 
1709 lbs per position= 6836 lbs Total 
Total difference 880 lbs or 220 per tire position.


The load that the tyre can take is not the only variable in the equation. There is also the aspect ratio.
Larger inside diameter tyres (18", 19", 20") will need increasing load ratings to go on the same car (even though the weight of the car does not change). This is because on a thick tyre (like a 17" on our cars), when you drive into a pothole, there's a lot of air to protect your rims. On the opposite, thinner tyres must have a much stiffer wall in order to survive the same pothole. Therefore, if you look at tyre load rating, load rating for the same car will increase with the inverse of wall thickness.
I think 99 is fine on 17", while 103 must be used on 18". I don't know what value must be used for 19" or 20" tyres.
P.


----------



## brenaud (Apr 24, 2005)

*Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton?*

I just bought an '06 Phaeton with 18" wheels/AWD. It needs tires. I live in Michigan in an area with lots of hilly dirt roads and fairly tough winters. I also have a Passat manual trans that I switch the wheels and tires out with snows each winter season. I don't want to buy snows/wheels and new all season tires for the Phaeton if I can avoid that.
Anyone have an opinion on the best, all around, grippy 4 season tire out there for the Phaeton? Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Aren Jay (Jun 9, 2009)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (brenaud)*

I've always been interested in these:
http://www.nokiantires.com/tyr...an+WR
I've never driven on them though.
I have used the Bridgestone LM series before and they were great, a little noisy in summer but with lower speeds they were great.



_Modified by Aren Jay at 8:26 AM 7-3-2009_


----------



## finklejag (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (brenaud)*

If you are running 255/45/18's. Then you only have a few to choose from. You are in luck though. Continental just came out with the ExtremeContact DWS. 

















Continental Tire Introduces ExtremeContact DWS Ultra-High Performance All-Season Tire 
FONTANA, CA – (March 10, 2009) – Continental Tire is taking ultra-high performance all-season tire technology to a whole new level with the ExtremeContact DWS. Part of an all-new family of tires that includes the ExtremeContact DW and the ExtremeWinterContact, the ExtremeContact DWS is fine-tuned to deliver extreme grip in Dry, Wet and Snow conditions.

“The ExtremeContact DWS (tuned for Dry, Wet & Snow) is slated to outperform when it comes to dry and wet conditions in both handling and braking; tread life, snow traction, noise, ride comfort and fuel efficiency,” said Joe Maher, product manager for performance tires, Continental Tire North America. “This tire is uniquely engineered to revolutionize the tire market with its outstanding all-season capabilities.”

The ExtremeContact DWS delivers improved performance thanks to Continental’s new technologies: 

• Chamfered Edges and a Solid Outer Shoulder improve dry performance 

• Dynamic Temperature Distribution reduces distortion for enhanced energy delivery, lower rolling resistance and improved tread-life 

• Traction Grooves and Increased Pattern Edges improve performance on snow-covered roads 

• High Void to Tread Ratio with Enhanced Groove Curvature improves water evacuation for outstanding wet handling 

In addition, the ExtremeContact DWS also features Tuned Performance Indicators. These are consumer-friendly, visible letters built into the second rib of the tread, and are designed to alert drivers of the tire’s optimal performance levels. “D” indicates the tire is at optimum tread depth for dry conditions. “W” indicates the tire is at optimum tread depth for wet conditions. “S” indicates the tire is at optimum tread depth for snow conditions. When the indicators disappear, the tire is no longer tuned for optimum performance in that particular road condition. 

Continental is so confident in the performance of the ExtremeContact DWS, it is backing it with our strongest UHP warranty ever: A 50,000-mile limited treadwear warranty; a 60-day Customer Satisfaction ride guarantee, a 72-month Manufacturer’s Workmanship Limited warranty – with free replacement up to 12 months, and Road Hazard Coverage for 12 months.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (brenaud)*

Everyone:

Please, please, please do not forget to make sure that whatever tires you purchase for your Phaeton are of a sufficiently high load rating to suit this very heavy automobile.

The required load rating varies depending on the exact size of the tire and also what engine is fitted to the Phaeton (basically, there are 'heavy' Phaetons, which have the W12 or V10, and 'light' Phaetons, which have the V8 or V6).

I have posted a chart below that shows the required load rating for tire sizes that were available from the factory. This same information can be found on the tire inflation sticker that is inside the gas cap flap (ROW vehicles) or on the driver door B pillar post (NAR vehicles).

Very few tire manufacturers offer all of their product lines in load ratings that are suitable for the Phaeton. If you fit a tire that has an inadequate load rating, the tire will wear very quickly and may overheat and blow out when driving.

Best regards,
Michael

*Approved Summer Tires for North American Phaetons*
(click on image to view full size)


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

Below is a tire specification sticker from a W12 Phaeton (ROW car, sticker is inside gas flap door). Note the load ratings - 101 for the 235/50 size, and 103 for the 255/40 size.

Michael

*Double-click to view full size image*


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

V10 diesel tire specifications...


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

19 inch tire specifications (see the vertical sticker on the right side). Note that if you fit 19 inch tires, you need a *105 *load rating. This sticker is from a W12 car.

There seems to be a correlation between increasing tire diameter and increasing load rating. I am not entirely sure what the engineering rationale is behind this.
Michael

(click on image to view full size)


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

W12 tire specifications from a North American W12 (my car). This is the 'American' sticker that gets put on the driver door B pillar, to comply with the TREAD act (American legislation).

*Double-click to view full size image*


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## barrier12 (Feb 1, 2009)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (brenaud)*

Guys around here were discussing price for used Phaeton rims and it sounds reasonable. Do not know your situation, but it may be wise to buy two sets(summer and winter) of tires. Yes, it is more expensive, but may save you(your family) and good car.
Just keep in mind, even good tires can not fix bad driving, so, slow down. I was driving to work one morning, winter tires and still my speed was a little bit too fast, road was too slicky(water/ice/snow mix). I did not hit anything, but nose(front) did not turn as I expected, even though my speed was just 5-10 MPH. 
Added: Oh, yeah, and congratulations on your purchase, hope you'll enjoy it.










_Modified by barrier12 at 2:55 PM 7-3-2009_


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (brenaud)*

Hello Brian,
In addition to all the important and interesting information already provided above, I suggest you click this link and read through the entire (lengthy) thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3219881
Please let us all know what you decide and what your experiences are with whatever tire(s) you choose. Thanks and good luck. Congratulations on your new ride








Ron


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## Aren Jay (Jun 9, 2009)

Just remember if it gets cold where you live, unless a tire is made for winter driving, it will not work in the cold. All Season tires do not grip when it gets much below 0C. 4 season tires or Performance snow tires do.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (finklejag)*

Slightly off topic, but yesterday I just installed the 'Summer' version of the new Continental tire, the ExtremeContact DW. Both the all-season and the summer tire meet the load requirements (103Y) of North American Phaetons. The tire size I use is 255/45-18.
So far, very quiet. 
I took off other appropriate Continental summer tires (I think they were SportContact 2s) which were nice to drive on, although they got noisier as they aged. However, I don't think I got 10k miles out of them, and I don't drive aggressively except for the odd highway entrance ramp. I don't know the exact mileage I got since I had a set of snows on for the winter. These new Continentals have a moderately higher treadlife rating (340 vs 280) so I am hopeful that I do better.
BTW, the DWS version has a MUCH higher 540 treadlife rating, so those using it should find it has a much longer life.
Steven


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (car_guy)*

Hello Steven,
I noticed these new Continentals on Tire Rack and am very curious about them. I'm sure those here who have the OEM Michelins, and the Turanza Serenity will be interested in how these new Continentals compare. Please let us know how you like them as time (and rubber) wears on. Thanks.
Regards,
Ron


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
Do you think perhaps this thread is suitable for merging with the "Choosing and installing replacement tires" thread?
Regards,
Ron


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*

Hi Ron:
Excellent idea, I have done exactly that. Thanks for the suggestion.
Michael


----------



## Jim Morris (Nov 8, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Just out of curiosity, why are the recommended tire pressures on my sticker much higher than the ones on the sticker you posted for the V10?
*Sticker posted by you*








*The sticker in the gas flap on my V10*


----------



## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (Aren Jay)*

I was looking on tirerack for a set of replacement tires when I came across Bridgestone Blizzaks on clearance for $148.00. Just forwarding this information on a great deal, I pass on snow tires in KS!
Size: 255/45R18
Sidewall Style: Blackwall
Serv. Desc: *103VLoad Index 103 *= 1929lbs (875kg) per tire
Speed Rating "V" = 149mph (240kph)
Load Range: XL
UTQG: Not required for
this tire.None


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (Jim Morris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jim Morris* »_Just out of curiosity, why are the recommended tire pressures on my sticker much higher than the ones on the sticker you posted for the V10?

Might be a long wheelbase vs. short wheelbase issue, although I am not sure. Might also be that the tire sizes are different - I can't read the tire sizes on the photo you posted, it is too fuzzy.
The only definitive way to answer the question would be to ask your VW parts specialist to look up the part numbers for the two stickers (in the bottom right of the sticker) and see what vehicle specification the stickers apply to.


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## itsallbeendonebefore (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_Hello Steven,
I noticed these new Continentals on Tire Rack and am very curious about them. Please let us know how you like them as time (and rubber) wears on. Thanks.
Regards,
Ron

Just got the Continental DWS's from tirerack put on last weekend. I must say they are a thousand times better than the Hankook tires i had before this. Very quiet, smoother on bumps, has a 50,000 mile warranty or something (sounds good atleast), ofcourse badass grip in the rain and did i mention quiet, smooth ride?. on tarmac, its absolutely quiet, on concrete (in texas), quiet enough for me. overall i am completely satisfied with the 1000 miles i have on it now. 
i bought 4 of these off tirerack at $189/tire without installation charges. its the 255/45R18's that i have. Never had continentals or bridgestones or Michelins so i cannot comment about them. i will update my experience after another 5000 miles. i highly recommend it.


----------



## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Tires*

Has anyone installed the new Continental High Performance DWS tires? What is your impression?
Thank you.
cai


----------



## jablum (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: Tires (cai)*

Look into Bridgestone Turenza Serenity. Put on 4 in My and have driven 2,500 since then. Absolutely wonderful.


----------



## SVESSA (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: Tires (cai)*

I have put 12,000 miles on my Bridgestones and am still very impressed by them. I would definately recommend them.
Scott


----------



## itsallbeendonebefore (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Tires (cai)*

i installed them about 2 months ago and i have nothing but good things to say about it. i will post some pics once i get my car back from repair but the ride is quiet like it should be and amazingly grippy in wet conditions. i got mine from tirerack and its got some sort of guarantee/warranty for 50000 miles. no experience with yokohama advans so i cant comment on that. 
anything else you would like to know?
Slajan


----------



## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: Tires (cai)*

I put a set of Continental ContiSportContact 3 (Max Performance Summer) on my W12 about three months ago. I have been very pleased with handling, ride, and noise level of the tire, but I am not much of a "max performance" driver.


----------



## sachverhalte (Sep 16, 2007)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

Do we have a thread on snow tires? i'm considering a set of Blizzaks. Does anyone have an opinion about swapping tires on the same rims, vs buying a separate set of rims? My vehicle has 75k miles. It seems late for the 80k mile calculation that one normally does with snow tires vs. all-seasons.
Thanks...Bob


----------



## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Another happy owner who installed Bridgestone Turenza Serenity tires on our 2004 V8 Phaeton.
The original Michelins were junk, with 2 of the four tires becoming out-of-round due to belt failures!
The Bridgestones are quieter, ride better, and handle better than the Michelins. Highly recommended.
- Dave


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

A question for those running Pirelli P-Zero tires on their Bentley wheels: What mileage are you seeing out of these tires? I will be going back to my Bentley wheels come spring and am looking for replacement tires. With the P-Zero's having a treadwear of only *220* I was thinking of maybe going with the Bridgestone Turanza with *400* or Continental ExtremeConcact with *540*. 
I have always liked the P-Zeros as far as noise/traction/comfort, but would like to see at least 40k. Has anyone had any luck achieving good mileage out of them?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (sachverhalte)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sachverhalte* »_Do we have a thread on snow tires? 

Hi Bob:
Yes, we do, it is here: Snow tires and wheels - Consolidated Discussions.
Michael


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (PanEuropean)*

*I am taking the liberty of pasting here a few interesting posts from another thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1, which began as a brake shudder discussion, but began to morph a bit into a tire discussion:*
Quote, originally posted by invisiblewave » 
I'll also be due for new tyres shortly. I put Nitto NT555 tyres on it at 51k, so they've done 15k and are wearing badly on the outside edges. The wear seems to occur when they're on the front. I'd be surprised if I get another 5k out of them. I put those on because they were the only ones Discount Tire had in stock when the Pirellis started chunking (I've never liked Pirelli, although they were good enough to refund 50% of the cost). The performance of the Nittos has been very good in all conditions, including snow, but they're noisy as hell. I wanted Goodyears at the time, based on user reviews, and that's probably what I'll put on next.
How much do the Yokohama's cost? The last set of Yokohamas I had performed very well, but the rears only lasted 6000 miles (on a Carrera 2, which I often drove sideways). The Nittos were $196 each.

Hi Martin,
I'm installing the new Continental DWS (Dry, Wet, Snow) tires on my car today. I loved my Yokohama Advan Sports (Summer tires), but they've worn out. I would have ordered them again, but I want a tire with longer tread wear. There is another new Continental called the DW (Dry, Wet), but even though I don't need a winter tire, everything I've read so far about the DWS is very positive, so I'm going to give them a try. 
Once I have some experience with them, I will be posting my impressions in this thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3219881 , where you can also read about other members experiences with the Goodyears, Yokohamas, Continentals, etc. 
By the way, if you can't find the tires you want locally, I've been very happy ordering through TireRack.com and having the tires shipped to my dealership for installation.
Regards,
Ron M.
******************************************************
Martin,
I priced the Yokohama Advan Sport tires in 255/45/18 today. My local tire dealer, who always has excellent prices, quoted me $301 per tire installed. 
I am purchasing them on the recommendation of a number of forum members. I realize that they will wear fast, but I'm really looking for a very quiet tire. I have an extra set of wheels with dedicated snow tires, so I will buy a set of "summer" tires to avoid the noise that all season tires tend to add to the equation.
Bill

*************************************************
Hi Bill,
As you've probably read, I've had the Yokohama Advan Sports on my W12 for the past year and a half, and my primary reason for choosing them was their low noise level. Yesterday, after approximately 18,000 miles with virtually no tread left on them, I replaced them with the new Continental DWS. I haven't picked-up my car yet, so I am an anxious to see if they are noisier than the Yokohamas. 
All the tire experts I've spoken with have maintained that an all season tire will always be quieter than a summer tire, but my subjective experience with the Yokohamas was just the opposite. However, from everything I've read about the Continental DWS (on this forum, as well as Tirerack.com survey results and testing results) I am expecting a very quiet tire, that has one of the highest treadwear ratings and warranty (50,000 miles) of any tire available. It also has a 1 year road hazard warranty, a 1 year or 2/32" replacement warranty, and a 30 day trial period (with caveats). They are $179 on TireRack.com.
As you probably know, TireRack is selling the Yokohamas for $255 (plus shipping), so it sounds like your local dealer is being competitive since his price includes installation. 
Anyway, I'm not trying to advise you, but just wanted to share some data. Once I've picked up my car I will be reporting my initial impressions of the new tires on the aforementioned tire replacement discussion thread.
Regards,
Ron
***************************************************
Ron,
Did the Yokohama tires stay quiet for their entire tread life?
I will be very interested to know how you like the Continentals.
It has been my experience with both my Phaetons that they generally eat tires. Between the two cars, I've had three different sets of tires on them and in each instance they have become noisier with time and wear.
My first Phaeton had Pirelli PZero tires on it, and they only had a weight rating of 99. They were not what I would call a quiet tire, but they became noticeably more noisy over the 7,000 miles I drove on them. 
Next I traded that phaeton for the one I have now. It had Khumo Exta tires on it which are also a weight rating of 99. Same story, they started out to not be too noisy, and became progressively more and more noisy.
Currently, my Phaeton has Nokian snow tires on it which I purchased from another forum member who drove his Phaeton on them for one season, which he estimates to be 5,000 miles. They were remarkably quiet when I put them on my car in november. They have become very noisy over about 5,000 miles of driving, but the tread appears to be unchanged.
I had the car aligned by the VW dealer at the 50,000 mile service just before I installed the Nokian tires. I will have it re-checked by someone else prior to installing new tires on it.
Bill
**********************************************************

Bill, have you read Mark Long's posts about his problems with tyres wearing on the outside edges? He's had a lot of work done (including a complete suspension replacement) without solving the issue. The wear on my tyres is definitely on the high side, and on the front they wear significantly more on the outside edges. I've pretty much resigned myself to it being a feature if the weight of the car, the 4WD, and the toe angle at the front. It looks as if I'll get about 20k out of this set, which isn't too bad, imo. It probably helps to do regular front-back swaps.

*************************************************
Bill - 
I've been very happy with my Nexen 3000. They are rated at 103Y and in the last 13k miles have only lost about 3/32 tread. I find them very quite. Obviously, I haven't run through them yet so I can't comment on their degree of quietness at the end of life. But, on a good note, you can get them for less than $140 per tire plus install.
Anyway, there is always a trade-off. Let us know how it goes.
Nate




_Modified by remrem at 12:35 PM 2-26-2010_


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*

_[Quote, originally posted by invisiblewave » 
... Ron, Did the Yokohama tires stay quiet for their entire tread life?
I will be very interested to know how you like the Continentals.
It has been my experience with both my Phaetons that they generally eat tires. Between the two cars, I've had three different sets of tires on them and in each instance they have become noisier with time and wear.
My first Phaeton had Pirelli PZero tires on it, and they only had a weight rating of 99. They were not what I would call a quiet tire, but they became noticeably more noisy over the 7,000 miles I drove on them. 
Next I traded that phaeton for the one I have now. It had Khumo Exta tires on it which are also a weight rating of 99. Same story, they started out to not be too noisy, and became progressively more and more noisy.
Currently, my Phaeton has Nokian snow tires on it which I purchased from another forum member who drove his Phaeton on them for one season, which he estimates to be 5,000 miles. They were remarkably quiet when I put them on my car in november. They have become very noisy over about 5,000 miles of driving, but the tread appears to be unchanged.
I had the car aligned by the VW dealer at the 50,000 mile service just before I installed the Nokian tires. I will have it re-checked by someone else prior to installing new tires on it...[/QUOTE]_

*Hi Bill,
The Yokohamas started out very quiet. Then, after about 5k miles they did become a little noisier, but still very acceptable. Strangely, in the last 3 or 4,000 miles, as they reached the end of their life, they became eerily silent







Hell, if it weren't for the wearbars starting to poke through I would love to have kept them and enjoyed the silence!








Anyway, when I pick up my car later today, I am hoping for a pleasant experience with the new Continentals, but I admit I am bracing for possible disappointment.
Best regards,
Ron*

_Modified by remrem at 12:27 PM 2-26-2010_


_Modified by remrem at 12:28 PM 2-26-2010_


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*

*FYI - If you click the link below, it should take you to all (a grand total of 11!) Phaeton V8 customer reviews of tires on Tire Rack.*
http://www.tirerack.com/survey...dex=0
*And here for all 3 (!) Phaeton W12 customer reviews:*
http://www.tirerack.com/survey...tus=P

_Modified by remrem at 1:19 PM 2-26-2010_

_Modified by remrem at 1:21 PM 2-26-2010_


_Modified by remrem at 1:22 PM 2-26-2010_


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## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*

Ron,
I did drop my summer wheels off at the tire dealer this afternoon. I told him to go ahead and order the Yokohama tires. The wheels are OEM Performance wheels which all have at least a little bit of curb rash on them. Two of them are what you could call bad.
Apparently there is a shop here in town that may be able to repair them. The tire dealer is going to find out if that is possible. 
I am excited to get them everything back and get them installed onto the car.
On another note, the Khumo tires were badly warn on the outside edges and badly chunked on the inside edges. They had no more than 12,000 miles on them and had become very noisy.
So far my relationship with the Phaeton parallels that of a beautiful woman: So long as I give her whatever she wants we're both happy...... I don't know how long the relationship will last, but I am quite confident the memories will last a lifetime.
Bill


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## feared (Aug 13, 2009)

Has anyone tried Pirelli PZero Rossos?


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (357Sig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *357Sig* »_Ron,
I did drop my summer wheels off at the tire dealer this afternoon. I told him to go ahead and order the Yokohama tires. The wheels are OEM Performance wheels which all have at least a little bit of curb rash on them. Two of them are what you could call bad.
Apparently there is a shop here in town that may be able to repair them. The tire dealer is going to find out if that is possible. 
I am excited to get them everything back and get them installed onto the car.
On another note, the Khumo tires were badly warn on the outside edges and badly chunked on the inside edges. They had no more than 12,000 miles on them and had become very noisy.
So far my relationship with the Phaeton parallels that of a beautiful woman: So long as I give her whatever she wants we're both happy...... I don't know how long the relationship will last, but I am quite confident the memories will last a lifetime.
Bill

Hi Bill,
Good luck with the Yokohama Advan Sports. As you know, yesterday I removed mine after about 18 months and 18,000 miles. Overall they were great sumer tires in every respect, except (obviously) treadlife. I guess the Florida heat, our lousy road surfaces, and maybe my driving style conspired to shorten their life. As I mentioned, when new they were very quiet. As they wore down they did develop some noise, but not enough to bother me much (and I'm a NUT about noise), and in the past few months as they neared the end of their life they became silent! After lots of experimenting with various tire pressures, I ended up running them at about 42 psi all around, and they wore very evenly with no chunking or feathering, albeit the ride was a bit stiff. You may find that different pressures work best for you. Remember to take into account the difference in recommended tire pressures between a V8 and a W12, as well as how many people and how much stuff in your trunk you tend to carry around.
Because of the excellent reviews of the new Continental DWS, I decided to take a chance and had them installed yesterday. I now have a grand total of 12 miles on them, so it's way too early to review, but I must say I'm already very impressed - silent, smooth and comfortable. I suspect I will miss the precision performance of the Yokohamas, but hopefully there will be the trade off of longer life, without any others sacrfices. I will write an update as I put some miles on them.
As for your curb rash, if your local shop can't help, perhaps this thread will offer some alternatives: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1760560
As for your beautiful woman analogy, from my experience the Phaeton is a relative bargain, not to mention a whole lot quieter.










_Modified by remrem at 1:00 PM 3-1-2010_


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## itsallbeendonebefore (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*

remrem, 
Could you be kind enough to tell me what psi you are running on the Conti DWS's? 
Happy to have another conti DWS user on board. hope you enjoy the ride and the ultimate road grip on wet and snow








slajan


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (itsallbeendonebefore)*

Hi Slajan,
I had the installer put 46 in the front and 44 in the rear, as a starting point. I may be adjusting the pressures as I experiment to find the perfect setting. What psi are you using? Are you a V8 or a W12?
I've only had them for a few days and about 25 miles, but so far I am very impressed. Absolutely the quietest and most comfortable ride I've experienced with my Phaeton yet. As for snow, well the only way my Phaeton will ever see snow is if I die and my wife sells my car to someone up north, or if we get a blizzard here in Fort Lauderdale








Best regards,
Ron
P.S. - By the way, part of my decison to buy these tires was due to your review of them in this thread. Thanks very much for your input.










_Modified by remrem at 11:07 AM 3-1-2010_


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*

Thanks to you both I have a feeling there's a set of Conti DWS in my not-to-distant future!


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## itsallbeendonebefore (May 13, 2007)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *remrem* »_ I had the installer put 46 in the front and 44 in the rear, as a starting point. I may be adjusting the pressures as I experiment to find the perfect setting. What psi are you using? Are you a V8 or a W12? 

Ron, 
.the last i had my pressure was at 42 for all four when i had it installed and that was back in sept of last year. I have about 7000 miles put in and the tire noise has been the same as it was when installed.
after having driven thru snow, black ice and rain, i can tell you i have never felt more confident driving my car while everyone else kept fish tailing and all that...the 4-motion does a good job too. i believe these are gonna last me a good 50000 miles with my kind of driving (no spirited driving here). enjoy them
btw, mines a v8. 
Slajan


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## Bulbook (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (itsallbeendonebefore)*

Ron,
I have a suggestion, I have just replaced the original Michelins on my Phaeton with a set of sleepers: General Tire Exclaim 255/45/18 UHP XL 99, V rated tires, all four including balancing etc. and wheel alignment and 8% tax cost me $891.48. These are tires I have used on another car and I love them. They are quiet, comfortable and are a high performance tire that also works in snow. 
You may want to check out the Tire Rack test of this tire.
I have figured out that Michelin and other manufacturers must sell at a loss or at least a minimal margin to VW or other car manufacturers and then make it up by charging huge markups on replacement tires. I really only needed two tires but when I was quoted for the Michelins I did some research and decided that four new Generals cost not much more than two Michelins. Regardless of price I prefer the feel of the Generals and am really impressed with them so far. 

I would be pleased to hear if anyone has used them in the past.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (Bulbook)*

That's an insufficient load rating for the Phaeton. Mine had Pirellis with a load rating of 99 on it when I bought it, and within a couple of months the tread started chunking off. That may be a Pirelli problem of course, but it'd probably be wise to keep a close eye on them. I switched to a tyre with a 103 load rating, which is apparently the necessary spec for a Phaeton, and they've worn pretty quickly but haven't "chunked".


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (Bulbook)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bulbook* »_Ron,
I have a suggestion, I have just replaced the original Michelins on my Phaeton with a set of sleepers: General Tire Exclaim 255/45/18 UHP XL 99, V rated tires, all four including balancing etc. and wheel alignment and 8% tax cost me $891.48. These are tires I have used on another car and I love them. They are quiet, comfortable and are a high performance tire that also works in snow. 
You may want to check out the Tire Rack test of this tire.
I have figured out that Michelin and other manufacturers must sell at a loss or at least a minimal margin to VW or other car manufacturers and then make it up by charging huge markups on replacement tires. I really only needed two tires but when I was quoted for the Michelins I did some research and decided that four new Generals cost not much more than two Michelins. Regardless of price I prefer the feel of the Generals and am really impressed with them so far. 

I would be pleased to hear if anyone has used them in the past. 


Hello Anthony,
Thanks for your comments. That sounds very interesting, but as you may know a 99 load rated tire is below what VW recommends for our cars. If you go back and read this entire thread, you will come across the debate on this very subject that took place a couple of years ago. You will read that a few members with an engineering background calculated and argued that a 99 load rating would be sufficient. Others countered that it didn't leave enough of a safety margin. In fact, you will read that when I purchased my car 2 years ago from a VW dealership, it had almost brand new Michelins on it. However, thanks to this forum, I noticed they had 99 load ratings, and when I pointed this out to the dealership they gave me a credit so that I could replace them because they aknowledged they were not within VW requirements. Personally, my feeling on the subject is that even if the VW engineers miscalculated, the last thing I ever want to worry about are my tires or brakes.
By the way, although I believe these higher load rating requirements apply to the LWB (Long Wheel Base) V8 and W12, I think that some of the lighter models that are sold in the rest of the world (ROW) may have lower load rating requirements.
Anyway, I don't mean to throw water on your suggestion, but it's an important issue to consider. Thanks again.
Regards,
Ron


_Modified by remrem at 9:50 PM 3-1-2010_


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

I've had the Conti DWS for a few thousand miles now. Love 'em! (and the 50,000 miles I'm supposed to get out of them)


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## Bulbook (Feb 7, 2007)

Thanks Ron,
Yes, I looked at the 99 V 103 issue, but with advice from my tire distributor, and bearing in mind that the Jersey Turnpike is a far cry from the Auotobahn I decided that the 99 rating is sufficient. I will keep a close eye on pressures and temperatures.


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## racefaith (Mar 18, 2009)

*Helios and Yokohama's*

Hi folks. Going from winter 17" Inspirations to 19" Helios. I know the larger wheel is going to create a firmer ride but oh well. I am looking at tires on Tirerack and found Yokohama's "S.drive" @ $200 and their "Advan A.4" @$239.
Tire size is 255/40/19 difference being ZR or R
I've bought enough $375+++ Pirelli's and see no need to on this car.
Does anyone have an opinion on either of these 2 tires relative to noise?
What's been a commonly recommended "quieter" tire in this size?
thanks!


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Bulbook)*

The problem may not lie in whether the car can use these tyres or not but with insurance companies.
In France, if I have an accident totally unrelated with the tyres, but the insurance founds out that I am using anything that is not within the specs, they can (and will) say that they are not covering the car anymore...
So I don't know whether US insurance companies would do the same or not, but before going out of specs deliberately, it may be worth checking with your insurance company that they will not dismiss your case based on this sole factor.


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## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: Helios and Yokohama's (racefaith)*

Chris,
Here is a link to detailed (and very lengthy) discussion of that very issue.
Bill
Choosing and installing replacement tires


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## Bulbook (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: (Zaphh)*

You raise a point that I had not considered. However if such a case evolved I am pretty sure that the tire dealer/distributor would also become involved as they advised that this tire was suitable and knowingly installed the 99W tires. 
I wonder what is the French tire requirement for a V8 Phaeton? 
Having raced both sports a formula cars for more than 30 years I am very sensitive to tire pressure and temperatures and will be using my pyrometer to check temperatures after the first high speed run that presents itself. I will publish the results as I do believe that the ultra high performance tire I have chosen is quite capable of keeping me and my passengers safe when driven at speeds that will not exceed 110-115 mph and that only on rare and joyous occasions for VERY brief periods. My driving is normally sedate and unlikely to attract the attention of the State Troopers or local police who appear to finance their departments by collecting fines for exceeding the ridiculously low speed limits that we have in NE USA.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Tony


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

*Re: (Bulbook)*

Load requirements apparently vary depending on the thickness of the tyre wall. Typically, beefy tyres (17") require less, and slender tyres (19") require more.
The correct loads appear in the tank flap. I don't remember them by heart, but think that 99 (or is it 101 ?) is allowed for 17" tyres, while 103 is required for 18".
I think the idea is that slender tyres cannot deform as much as beefy tyres when hitting a pothole, so for a same car, they need to be tougher than their plumpy friends...
P.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: (Zaphh)*

Hi Pierre,
Thanks for making that very important point, which I had failed to mention in my post. As you say, the load rating requirements are different (lower) when using 17" tires. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Best regards,
Ron


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## ruddyone (Feb 9, 2009)

*Re: (remrem)*

Just as an FYI..... Notice the load ratings in the attached.








Best Regards,
Nate


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## Bulbook (Feb 7, 2007)

*Re: (ruddyone)*

Thanks for taking the time to post the chart.


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## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: Best 4 season tires for '06 Phaeton? (remrem)*

Ron,
I just picked up my wheels and tires from the tire store this afternoon and installed them on my car this evening. I have not had an opportunity to drive the car with them on it yet. I can't wait until tomorrow morning to see how they preform on the highway.
Bill


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

I have had the Continental DWS (not to be confused with the Continental DW) for about 2 months and about 1,500 miles. I am very happy with them, but have a few important comments. 

*THE GREAT*: Extremely quiet, smooth, and good in the wet. Handles bumps and potholes very calmly and softly. Extremely good warranty including 60 day test drive, and 1 year road hazard protection. Very long tread life expectancy. 
*THE GOOD*: Cornering and responsiveness. Price ($179 each on Tire Rack) 
*THE OK:* Wish they were a bit more precise. They don't wander, but perhaps a little bit numb on center. Of course, because I've just changed from a perfomance tire (Yokohama Advan Sport), I know I was a bit spoiled in this regard. 
*THE BAD:* There's a bit of a vibration. After having them static balanced twice, I then had them Road Force Balanced last week and found that 2 of the 4 tires are out of round. 

Tire Rack customer service is great, and is sending replacements this week. Once I swap them out, I expect the vibration to be gone. Assuming that is the case, I will then wholeheartedly recommend these tires well above the OEM Michelins, as well as the Turanza Serenity, for those of you who are looking for extreme quiet and comfort, long tread life, and very respectable performance for a grand touring tire. However, if you want superb performance and don't care about treadlife, then the Yokohama Advan Sport is a winner. I will update my comments once I have the 2 replacements mounted, and as I put more miles on the tires.


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## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

I wanted to post I too have installed the Conti DWS tires. I love them. I bought the car with Pirelli P Zero Nero's on them The had a load rating of 99 which I found was not the correct rated tire for the Phaeton. I really liked the Pirelli's, but I love the DWS tires. I have no issues at all with them but they have less than 1,000 miles on them. They are rated tops for winter in the testing grounds in Switzerland I believe by tire rack. I recommend them for an all season tire.


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## TKK-1 (Apr 15, 2010)

The Vredestein Wintrac Xtreme is fantastic on my other car, a Murano, which is joined next week by a Phaeton 3.0TDI to replace my year-old CC GT 170TDI. As I drive to ski in Switzerland, I researched ahead to have a set and found the Vredestein does not have it in 255/40R19 but Nokian WR G2, ContiWinterContact TS810S and Blizzak do. 

The Vredestein is used with no problem in summer too, and I was told the Nokian should be likewise. Continentals are rather more expensive, and I'm uncertain about its use in summer, as is the Blizzak. I would be getting the Nokian. 

Incidentally, I agonised over choosing between the current shape (which I really love) and the new one (which is too 'edgy') due to arrive in early Autumn. However, the current shape is the original styling as approved by Ferdinand Piech/Walter de'Silva and the offer on my trade-in is very good. 

Cheers!


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

*Nexen Tires*

Just took a set of Chinese crap unidirectional tires off and replaced them with a set of Nexen unidirectionals with nearly identical tread pattern. Car drives like an entirely different machine. Much smoother and insanely quiet (at least in comparison). The older tires were fairly new, only 20k miles on them, but hardly any wear. I was so surprised by the difference in just using name brand vs knock offs. So I will be looking for more Nexen's as these wear down.


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## DynomiteTT (Jan 10, 2007)

Im running Hankook Ventus V12 evo K110 255/40/19. I put them on my forged a8 w12 wheels. Good load rating and very very quiet. I recommend them if you don't need all seasons. Rated just as good as the expensive brands.

255/40/19 has a load rating of 100 or 1,764lbs per tire = 7,056lbs

the 18s have an even better load rating well within factory specs

oh and $177 a tire, cant beat that!


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

remrem said:


> I have had the Continental DWS (not to be confused with the Continental DW) for about 2 months and about 1,500 miles. I am very happy with them, but have a few important comments.
> 
> *THE GREAT*: Extremely quiet, smooth, and good in the wet. Handles bumps and potholes very calmly and softly. Extremely good warranty including 60 day test drive, and 1 year road hazard protection. Very long tread life expectancy.
> *THE GOOD*: Cornering and responsiveness. Price ($179 each on Tire Rack)
> ...



This is the update I promised. I must have just gotten unlucky and gotten my tires from a bad batch. It turns out that 3 (not 2) of the 4 tires were out of round. Tire Rack and Continental took care of the problem and I finally have 4 perfectly balanced tires. Although it was a frustrating experience, I can now say that it was worth it. These tires are incredibly quiet (my most important criterion), very smooth and forgiving, and excellent grip in the wet an dry. However, as I previously stated: "I wish they were a bit more precise. They don't wander, but are perhaps a little bit numb on center. Of course, because I've just changed from a perfomance tire (Yokohama Advan Sport), I know I was a bit spoiled in this regard". 

I will be experimenting with various tire pressures to find the optimal ride, and will report my findings in the future. In the meantime, if noise, comfort, and long tread life are what you seek then these may be the tires for you. If perfomance and precision is your goal, and you are willing to sacrifice tread life, then the Yokohama Advan Sport was an excellent choice.

P.S. - Because of the out of round problem I experienced, I strongly suggest you have the tires Road Force Balanced. If you order from Tire Rack, see if you can get them to agree to do this before they ship them to you.


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## AudianerA6 (Sep 19, 2007)

I'm a little confused about load index and which tires to choose.

My car weighs empty, according to papers, 2356kg and maximum allowed weight is 2810kg.
Front axes can carry a maximum of 1450kg, rear 1390kg

Now, I would like to equippe my car with Omanyt ET40 19. The first generation of Omanyt with ET 35 are no longer available in Europe, nor allowed dou to some safety regulations. But these ET 35 Omanyts were able to use 275 tires with a loadindex of 101 and even beyond.
For an ET 40 Omanyt, I can only find 255/40 R19 with maximum load index of 100XL.
Is it still enough, to be able to not over stress the tires when carrying capacity at full load???
And I guess that tires with more then 255 for ET40 Omanyt are not allowed, well, not in Germany.

A side note: Since VW abandoned the ET35 Omanyts, they are selling officially 255/40 tires for both Helios and Omanyt rims for V8 and W12 cars. For example, this link:

http://www.volkswagen-zubehoer.de/sh...r--rechts.html


I made some calculation and a loadindex of 100 still surpasses the 2810 range with more then 300kg, theoretically, of course. But does this calculation also work with 255/40 tires?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I can't give a definitive answer to your question, but I can offer some anecdotal experience. My car had Pirellis on it when I bought it which started "chunking" within a couple of thousand miles. When I took it in, I discovered they had a load index of (I think, from memory) 98. I've never had to pay attention to load index before, but given the performance of those tyres it's not too much of a stretch to imagine a catastrophic failure on a tyre that isn't rated for the weight of the car. The only three things that ever really concern me from a safety perspective are brakes, steering and tyres, in that order.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

AudianerA6 said:


> I'm a little confused about load index and which tires to choose.
> 
> My car weighs empty, according to papers, 2356kg and maximum allowed weight is 2810kg.
> Front axes can carry a maximum of 1450kg, rear 1390kg
> ...


Hi,

How could you make the calculation ? Because obviously, mass that the tyre can carry is not the only parameter in load index requirement. One parameter is missing somewhere... and unless you know what it is, it is impossible to calculate load requirement for your car.

If the load index only represented the mass a tyre could take, in pounds or kilos, the requested load rating would be identical independently of the aspect ratio. However, this is not the case.
Note that for the same car (a V8), specified load rate is:
- 99 for a 235/55/17,
- 101 for a 235/50/18,
- 103 for a 255/45/18.

If it is the same car that weighs the same weight, why would the load rate change ?

So there is a parameter missing there, in the calculation of the load index. Unless anyone can give a concrete explanation on why VW would recommend different load indices for the same car, I would go by what those in the know have come up with, which seems to set a relation between not only car weight and load index, but also with aspect ratio, as you can see for the 2 235 tyres.

Aspect ratio is a precise number, that gives (to the millimeter) the relation between the thickness of the tyre and its width. Therefore, a 235/50 tyre means that the thickness of the tyre will be 235*0.5=117.5mm, while a 235/55 means that the thickness will be 235*0.55 = 129.25mm. The difference between 117.5 and 129.25 will more or less exactly match the difference in diameter between a 17" and a 18" rim, so that the external circumference of the two tyres are roughly the same.

The fact that aspect ratio is the only difference between these two otherwise identical tyres (235/55/17 and 235/50/18) and the fact that the recommended load index is 99 for the first and 101 for the second is the indication to me that there is a correlation between load index and aspect ratio. (I say that there is only one difference between those 2 tyres even though two numbers change in their specification because the two numbers that change (55/17 and 50/18) are directly related as shown above).

Apparently, a thinner tyre will need a higher load index to be used no the same car. Until I have better information on this, my interpretation is that a thinner tyre must be tougher to offer a similar protection to the rim, so even though load rate may represent a load in pounds, this may be under certain parameters that we don't know, for instance, the load may be related to mass for a particular aspect ratio such as 70 (the old standard) or this load could be fine for static measurement, but the dynamics of the car could have an influence on this, when it is driven over possibly uneven roads. The dynamics of the car could be a reason why you have different specified loads for the same car, depending on tyre thickness.

Anyway, there is a parameter missing there. Until I have a clear explanation on what this parameter is, my interpretation is that it is safer to rely on the information passed on to their customers by the manufacturer of the car.

If anyone is in the know, I'm interesting to hear a scientific explanation on how the load index is computed (from the car manufacturer side, of course).

P.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hello Audianer A6,

To clairify, please tell us what version of the Phaeton you own? Short or long wheelbase? Which engine? Thanks.

Regards,
Ron M.


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## AudianerA6 (Sep 19, 2007)

It's a LWB, V8, 4 seater. Currently equipped with 7,5x18 ET40 - 235/50 Champion rims. Factory tires are 101li Bridgestone Potenza.
I wonna change to Omanyt 9x19 ET40 - 255/40

The calculations was made by taking the highest wheel axes carrying cappacity, divided by two and then comparing it to the list of IL numbers. In my case, the front axes, 1450kg : 2 = 725. So a tire with IL 100, which is 800kg should be just fine. That's what I assume. So all four tires with 800, this makes 3200kg. Theoretically?? 
The car weighs empty about 2356kg and can carry a maximum of 2810kg.

Now I had a look at this tires: 255/45/18
You can only buy 255/45/18 in either 103 OR 99il, and 99 is not enough. I don't know why they only produce them as 99 and 103 but not something in between.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*In a related thread, unlimitedpaydays wrote today:*

_I just recently purchased four new tires for my Phaeton. I found that Costco and Discount tire both want $300 apiece for the oem MichelinI looked at the continental dws, but, there was a 4-6 month backlog for the 18's.I looke at the bridgestone turanza. I finall bought the new Yokohama Advan envigor rated 103w which is rated for 168mph,I now have a warranty in writing for 60,000 miles flat repair,road hazard, lifetime balance and rotation all included for $1007.00 These tires just went on sale on may 2010, they have the new silica tire technology, I have about 550 miles on them in a little over two months. I highly recommend them to the phaeton forum. Check out the manufacturer add www.yokohama.com then look up the Advan envigor. I hope this helps some of you looking for tires. Dennis _

*I replied:* _That's very interesting. I was wondering about those new Yokohamas. I suspect they are meant to compete directly with the Continental DWS and we will be very interested to hear how they compare._


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## capcomm (Nov 26, 2007)

*What is best tire for 2004 Phaeton 8 cyl*

Just looking for recommendations for 4 tires. I have Mich Pilot Hx MxM4's ($325 each to replace) on it now but looking at Conti Sport ($300 ea) or Toyo's ($200 ea).

Any ideas?


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

I have ContiSport Contact3's on my W12 and am very pleased with them.
www.tirerack.com
currently has them on closeout @ $260 each.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Best is hard to define. 

Handling, traction, wear, noise, cost are some of the factors to consider. No one tire will be the best in every category and there has been a ton of discussion around here.

Following is a good place to start:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3219881

Following are a few choices:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireS...rue&minSpeedRating=H&minLoadRating=XL&tab=All


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

I don't use my Phaeton as a daily driver so my decision on tire choice was not terribly complicated. My 2 1/2 year old grandson calls the Phaeton grandpa's "dress up car". I went to a Town Fair Tire outlet and purchased four Nexen N7000 tires (Nexen I beleive is made by Michelin for Town Fair Tire?). They are 255/45R18V unidirectional summer/winter compound with the 103 load rating specified for my Phaeton. I've found these tires quiet, smooth riding, they have good turn in and offer excellent braking performance wet or dry. I recently drove an 80 mile trip with these new tires in a heavy rain. Never did the car feel disconnected or less than under full control despite the depth of the many puddles I encountered. Other drivers looked like they were water skiing . My driving style would be considered "brisk" by most. Anyway, the tires listed for $206.00 each. They were on sale and cost me $556.00 for all four . I've got years of track time in my background and have a good grip on what is safe and at the same time what offers the best driving dynamics. Would I recommend this tire to another Phaeton owner? Sure would :thumbup:
Ron


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## capcomm (Nov 26, 2007)

Thanks so much Ron! Nice posting. I go to Town Fair for all my tire needs so I'll give them a call and ask about that brand.

Safe driving!


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## TX170754 (Jun 5, 2010)

You can also try the new Conti DWS, Tire Rack has them


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

I had the Nexen N7000's and now have the Conti DWS.

The Nexen's were a great tire, really quiet and handled well, but I only got about 25k out of them. I would buy them again.

The DWS's are great too, but don't handle like the Nexen's did. But the trade off is they should get 50k miles and handle great in rain and snow.

Either tire is worthy, just depends on what you are looking for.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hello all,

At the risk of sounding like a hall monitor (actually a broken record of a hall monitor) may I suggest we continue this discussion where it belongs, as an appendage to the already excellent thread, to which Auzivision referred above and as found in the Table of Contents (TOC) page, entitled: *Choosing and Installing Replacement Tires*:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3219881

This way our fellow forum members, as well as future members, will easily be able to follow this topic without having to search through a bunch of fragmented threads. Thank you all! :beer:


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## jablum (Feb 22, 2007)

*Bridgestone*

After 25,000 on the OEMs, I did the research and purchased 4 Bridgestone Turenza Serenity tyres and love them. They are more responsive and quieter than the originals. I live in Boston and needed tyres which would perform adequately in Winter. Check them out & good luck.


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

I replaced my cheap warped chinese knock-offs (on the car when bought from VW as a CPO) with a set of Nexen N3000's. Much quieter. I don't drive the car aggressively, and haven't had them on very long, so I can't attest to durability or handling characteristics, but they are smooth and quiet.


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## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

Ron,

Those sound like a good tire at a good price. You may remember there was a thread sometime back and I had told you I was purchasing a set of Yokahoma Advan Sport 255/45 x 18 for my 05 Pheton. I also had my wheels cleaned up from some curb rash at the time.

One of the primary reasons that I replaced the tires was that I thought the Kuhmo Exta AST tires that were on the car were noisy. Some of the noise actually turned out to be the left rear wheel bearing. I asked the dealer to check the wheel bearings at the 50,000 mile service and they did not find anything wrong at that time.

After the dealer had reported that none of the wheel bearings were worn, I had simply blamed the Kuhmo tires for all noise I was hearing. I replaced them and some, but not all, of the noise went away. So I took the Phaeton to an independent shop and told them to start replacing the wheel bearings until they found the one that was bad. The mechanic drove the car for about 5 minutes and said the left rear bearing was noisy. He replaced it and all is well again.

I am 90% - 95% satisfied with the tires. They are strictly a summer tires and they make the Phaeton handle like it is on rails. The Yokahomas are very sticky and are unaffected by wet pavement. But since they are basically slicks with deep grooves in them, it is necessary to change to winter tires when the seasons change. (I live in Iowa and we generally have nasty winter weather).

I continue to hear good things about the Nexgen (a couple different choices) and Continental DSW tires for Phaetons. Hopefully my winter tires (Nokian Hakapalittas) will wear at about the same rate that my Yokahomas do and I will look at one of these other brands in an all-season tread.

Bill


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## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

Bill,
While tread pattern, sidewall stiffness and other specs play a significant role in how a tire responds to driver input outside temperature is often ignored. Summer tires (performance compounds) don't like temperatures below around forty degrees ambient. Performance/summer tires get hard and loose grip very quickly in the cold. I had P Zeros on my Volvo S60R. When the outside temperature dropped to around forty degrees they became simply scary - regardless of road conditions. In the heat they were exceptional. When it snows here where I live (CT) the Phaeton rests peacefully in the garage next to the roadster and the 4X4 pickup steps up to the plate if I need to venture out. Ah, the joys of an early retirement. I don't need to go anywhere . I'm also too lazy to do the summer winter tire dance each year. When I added all the compromises up in choosing tires for the Phaeton the N7000's got the nod with price being the tipping point. By the way, did you have all the wheel bearings replaced or just the one that was becoming noisy and what were you charged? It's warm today so get out there and make your Phaeton start dancing. Happy Forth!
Ron


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Moderators, could we *please* merge this informative thread with the existing TOC thread "Choosing and Installing Replacement Tires"? Thanks!


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Personally, I don't agree that any threads should ever be merged. Hyperlinks from one thread to another are more that adequate. In fact, one of my biggest frustrations with this site is caused by all the merging. 

I can’t tell you how many threads in the table of contents (especially the really lengthy ones) contain links to themselves. So one is reading along, notes that someone mentions another thread and links to it., thinks it might be interested only to later find out it links them back to the beginning of exact same thread they are reading.

No other place where I blog does this and they have no problems existing and information is readily available and easy to find. I’d rather see this practice stopped to emulate what the rest of the web does so new visitors don’t get confused, frustrated and leave. 

The TOC is a big enough mess as it is… let’s not compound it any further. Massive fragmented disjointed threads make for difficult reading and difficult retrieval. 

I say leave well enough alone. That’s my two cents… for what it’s worth. Sorry for the rant.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Auzivision,

I never thought of it that way. You make a very good point, and because I don't regularly visit any other forums or blogs, the Phaeton forum has been my only real frame of reference. However, my observation and experience has been quite the opposite of yours. Please correct me if I am wrong, but what I would respectfully suggest is that you may be overlooking the fact that your skills and abilities to search and find information within the forum may be much more sophisitcated and advanced than that of the typical visitor or member of this forum. 

*Let's take the replacement tire discussion as an example:*

If I was for the first time thinking about replacing my tires, I would like to be able to read all about it in one thread, and hopefully that thread would be listed in the Table of Contents. Even if that thread contained links that looped back on themselves because of prior thread merging, I would still be glad for all the information on that particular topic to be found in one place.

Now, let's take this thread in which we are currently. After a while this thread may become dormant and fade away into the dusty archives as so many of them do, yet it contains information that is of great value to the topic of replacement tires. Given the fact that the search functions of the forum are cumbersome and inefficient, and considering that many visitors to the forum may not be particulary skilled in the ways of Google searches (nor might it even occur to them to search any further than the Table of Contents), this vital information may very well *never* be found by the typical visitor. Therefore, that visitor will potentially and unknowingly come away from this forum with dated and incomplete information on the subject.

Sorry for my rant and for my 2 cents  :beer:

With great respect and best regards,
Ron M.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

I agree with your intentions, just not with the method. To me it’s best to link various conversations, not merge them. I think it really comes down to how you define ‘all in one place’. Some may say ‘all in one thread’ or ‘all in one forum’ or ‘all in a collection of links’. 

To me a link (or archival note) in ‘master thread’ or TOC as they are commonly referred to around here is the proper way to tie these together without loosing anything. Trying to cram multiple conversations into one thread is a disservice to both threads.

The old thread now has a similar but disconnected conversation appended which won’t have a natural flow. The new thread is lost so that the original posters (aka OP) won’t be able view his (or her) thread because it’s gone. 

Seeing how the OP hasn’t posted to this thread in about a week… imagine how he would feel if he came back in say a month later to review his thread and it’s gone. Wouldn’t that be frustrating? 

That said a link in the TOC thread to this thread would achieve your objective of keep this from fading away into eternity yet retain the story line and flow of both threads. 

Best Reagrds,

Kurt


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi again Kurt,

I see your points, and agree that what you suggest would be ideal. However, as you said...



> That said a link in the TOC thread to this thread would achieve your objective of keep this from fading away into eternity yet retain the story line and flow of both threads.


So then, the big question is how can we ensure that a link, to this discussion for instance, is inserted into the relevant TOC thread?

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Archival note... link to another thread of interest:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4938128-What-is-best-tire-for-2004-Phaeton-8-cyl


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

The beauty of it is anynoe can do this... you, me, the moderator andyone seeing or feeling the need. 

Just for fun, I took care of it in this case.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Thanks Kurt,

I appreciate you doing that, but it illustrates the one flaw in your suggested method, in that one must be diligent and remember to go the TOC thread and manually enter the relevant link each time a new one is created. In my opinion, it is unrealistic to expect that many members are going to do this. 

Of course, my preferred method of asking the moderators to merge threads is also flawed, as you have noted. I think the bottom line here is that there is no perfect solution to this problem, and we should agree to disagree on which is the better _imperfect_ method. :beer:

Thanks again for the interesting discussion and exchange of ideas.

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

remrem said:


> I have had the Continental DWS (not to be confused with the Continental DW) for about 2 months and about 1,500 miles. I am very happy with them, but have a few important comments.
> 
> THE GREAT: Extremely quiet, smooth, and good in the wet. Handles bumps and potholes very calmly and softly. Extremely good warranty including 60 day test drive, and 1 year road hazard protection. Very long tread life expectancy.
> THE GOOD: Cornering and responsiveness. Price ($179 each on Tire Rack)
> ...


 
Just another update: Now that I have had the Continental DWS for several thousand miles and have experimented with various pressures, what I've found is that as the tires have broken-in they have become MORE precise. They no longer have that numb on center feel and that sense of control that I so loved about the Yokohamas is no longer missing. For me, the optimal tire pressures are 42 psi in front and 44 psi in the rear, though keep in mind this is for the LWB W12, so that might not translate to some of the lighter Phaetons. Still incredibly quiet and more forgiving when encountering potholes or harsh pavement. I now highly recommend these tires, but with the caveat of making sure to ROAD FORCE balance them when mounting, and rejecting them if they are out of round!


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

It seems this 'ol country boy that you sure went to a lot of trouble to get some tires that worked. Out of round? Several of them? 

I think I'll stick with the Serenities for now.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Jack, 

This ol' city boy thinks you make a good point! I tend to get a bit obsessive about things, and once I start I can't stop until it's right. Drives my wife crazy, but then that's what makes it fun. 

Best regards and thanks for starting this great thread so many moons ago. :beer: 

Ron M.


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## TampaAPB (Jul 18, 2009)

*Great Experience - Tirerack and Continental Extreme Contract DW w/ TPMS Replacement*

Original equipment tires on my '04 V8 Phaeton recently started to get flat spots, etc after 39K miles. TPMS Monitors long ago stopped working, it was time to get all done at once.

I really do not know much about tires, but used this thread and advice on Tirerack to choose the Continental Extreme Contact DW. Since I live in Florida, an all-season radial is not required. I also added the TPMS monitors and had everything shipped to a local installer. Actual order is below:

4	255/45ZR -18 Continental Ext In Stock	$199.00	$796.00
1	Continental Warranty Packet In Stock	N/C	N/C
1	Tire registration card -retail In Stock	N/C	N/C
5	433MHz Tire Pressure Sensor In Stock	$88.00	$440.00
5	Required Valve In Stock	$8.00	$40.00

Note that I got 5 TPMS sensors but only 4 tires - the trunk spare had never been used but its TPMS sensor stopped working some time ago. Add 60 dollars for shipping and about $120 for install, the total for everything came to ~$1500. 

Results: TPMS sensors took the usual 10 min or so on the highway to obtain a new reading, now work perfectly. After 100mi, the continental tires are super quiet and handling is great in the florida summer downpours as well as normal driving. Only hitch was tire rack would not ship without speaking to me personally to verify there was no fraud - and the shipment was delayed 1-day as a result. Saved more than $1000 than what was asked at VW dealer for identical configuration. I'll post again as the miles add-up and advise folks on how the tires are coming along.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

Congratulations on your purchase of the Continental ContiExtremeContact DW summer tires. I've been using them for 5 or 6K miles and have found them to be terrific in all respects.

I want to pass on some information that I have gotten from my tire supplier and have confirmed directly with Continental. These tires can and should be rotated in an 'X' pattern on your car. You can do this because these tires are not unidirectional. The idea that this will result in tire belts breaking or shifting is no longer a concern.

Rotating them in this way will reduce feathering and mitigate the usual increase in noise that many tires develop as they wear. I have done this once about 1K miles ago and have not had any issues as a result.

BTW, I still think this is the best tire I've ever put on any vehicle I've ever owned. Quiet, terrific impact compliance, and VERY grippy. It's fun to turn the shocks up to super sport and do up the entrance ramps and exits. It's impossible to make them squeal. It's amazing what my 5200 lb. beast will do with these tires. The original Michelins were garbage. Overrated and overpriced in my opinion.

Oh, and one other thing. These tires are a bargain compared to other name brand high-performance competitors. The only question is how long they'll last.

On another subject, my understanding is that tread-wear ratings on tires are not set to an absolute standard. Although testing is performed, Wikipedia states, "The assigning of UTQG grades is done solely by the tire manufacturer. In many cases, this has resulted in the UTQG grading system to be more of a marketing tool than was originally intended." Unfortunately, we don't have much else to go by.

Steven


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

I don't think I've heard of anyone putting Toyo Proxes on theirs? They're not bad.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Need a good installer in Raleigh*

Hey guys, anyone you recommend for mounting and balancing tires in the Raleigh area? I was thinking about McNair Performance on Westgate, but I didn't know if there's someone else that might be better?


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

Getting ready to install some new tires and TPMS Sensors. Just wanted to add to this link.

Ordered new sensors from TireRack. They were ordered on Tuesday afternoon and received on Thursday morning. Now that is great service. 

Took a couple of photo's of the sensors and packaging. I will have them installed in the new tires on Friday. Looks like I am going with *255/45ZR18 Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 *as I already had two new ones that I had purchased but never installed on my 2004 Phaeton and so I am buying two more. The tires are expensive. $318.00 each. 

I will have them mounted and balanced and then do an all wheel alignment. So hopefully I will be happy with the ride. 

the date code on the new Beru sensors are 20/08/10 or I am assuming August 20, 2010. 
I did not buy a sensor for the spare so I will have to have the spare removed from the TPMS system at my 60K service. I didn't see spending the money on the spare.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

New tires and sensors installed but now getting a defective wheel symbol. I suspect that its the spare in the trunk that has the old sensor as the new sensors and positions show 39 front and 44 rear for the air pressure and the spare which has the same amount of air shows in the diagram as a O or Donut. 

I guess that I will have to have it checked out and turned off by the dealer at my next service which is at 60K. I know have about 58,000 miles so I can wait to do this at the time of service.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

_"New tires and sensors installed but now getting a defective wheel symbol. I suspect that its the spare in the trunk that has the old sensor as the new sensors and positions show 39 front and 44 rear for the air pressure and the spare which has the same amount of air shows in the diagram as a O or Donut"_

Hi KC mover,

You've probably already thought of this, but just in case, I remembered some advice PanEuropean gave a long time ago to a forum memeber in the TPMS thread:

_"First, lift up the floor in the trunk and rotate the spare tire so that the valve stem for the spare is at the forward-most position (the 12 o'clock position as you view the spare when standing behind the car). This improves the odds that the antennas in the rear wheel well will pick up the signal from the spare."_ 

Perhaps if your sensor battery in the spare is weak, this could make a difference (?). 

Also, your comment about _"'shows in the diagram as a O or Donut."_ I think is not a problem. I'm not in my car now, but I believe that is how the spare is always properly displayed - as a big donut without any pressure number. Again, if I remember correctly, although the system reads the pressure in the spare, it merely compares its relative value to the two rear tires and makes sure it is within parameters, but only reports it as an "O" (maybe a symbol for Ok  ?). Anyway, if you haven't already, I think if you reread this thread you might be able to solve your problem, without having to take it back to the dealership:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Design-Function-Operation-and-Troubleshooting

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

Ron,

Thanks for the reply. Your tips were helpful and I was going to try them but guess what! I didn't have to do that. Seems my old sensors were left in the trunk and were causing false readings. Pitched them out today at the car wash and within 15 mins the TPMS were registering correcting. Didn't have to turn off the spare in the trunk or reset it. 

Drive to St. Louis today no issues or faults. Love the TPMS when they are working right. 

This is still the worlds great forum. Thanks to all who make it a great place of information. Especially Michael. 

Larry


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Larry:

Thanks very much for posting the pictures of the Beru sensors from The Tire Rack and the associated invoice.

I'm going to have to replace all 9 sensors (4 summer tires, 4 winter tires, 1 spare) within the next few months, and your pictures and report about the replacement have put my mind totally at ease concerning ordering from The Tire Rack.

Michael

*PS:* Slightly off-topic - I have not had a reason to visit Olathe in the last 18 months, but hope to be able to come up with a suitable reason during Q2 of 2010 - will look forward to seeing you and the Kansas gang then - it's been a long time...


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## unlimitedpaydays (May 24, 2008)

*update on Yokohama advan envigor tires*



remrem said:


> *In a related thread, unlimitedpaydays wrote today:*
> 
> _I just recently purchased four new tires for my Phaeton. I found that Costco and Discount tire both want $300 apiece for the oem MichelinI looked at the continental dws, but, there was a 4-6 month backlog for the 18's.I looke at the bridgestone turanza. I finall bought the new Yokohama Advan envigor rated 103w which is rated for 168mph,I now have a warranty in writing for 60,000 miles flat repair,road hazard, lifetime balance and rotation all included for $1007.00 These tires just went on sale on may 2010, they have the new silica tire technology, I have about 550 miles on them in a little over two months. I highly recommend them to the phaeton forum. Check out the manufacturer add www.yokohama.com then look up the Advan envigor. I hope this helps some of you looking for tires. Dennis _
> 
> *I replied:* _That's very interesting. I was wondering about those new Yokohamas. I suspect they are meant to compete directly with the Continental DWS and we will be very interested to hear how they compare._


:grinsanta: Hi everyone, I just had my yokohama advan envigor tires rotated this past week at discount tire. After about 4,500 miles I am very happy to report that I like these tires very much. They have a firmer ride than the stock Michelins, and when the weather is cool and the tires not warmed up, the tires are firmer until they warm. Traction is much superior to the stock Michelins. As I stated upon purchase,these were about $730 the set and with install and certifcates for 60,000 warranty on W rated tires came out to $1007.00 . I would certainly buy these again. Dennis


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Tires*

I just purchased new tires for my Genesis and, so far, they are outstanding. I mention this because they might work well on the Phaeton as well. They are top rated by Tire Rack in the high performance all season category. They are the Continental Extreme Contact DWS. (The DWS stands for: dry; wet; and snow). Cute. 

Anyhoo, they are far superior to the original equipment tires. 

Which poses a question: "Why do manufacturers (for the most part) put crappy tires on new cars?" 

I know the answer is costs. But, it seems to me that they could 'show off' their cars much better with a decent tire from day one.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hello Jack: 

Great to hear from you again! Thanks for the tire recommendation - those tires are offered as OEM on some VW products sold in Europe. 

How are you enjoying the Genesis? 

Michael


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

I have these on a V10 and they work VERY well!!!! Having covered about 8k miles I would estimate that there is still well over half the tread depth left. I am prone to higher speed runs as well as very demanding local minor roads. 
I have yet to encounter snow though! 

Stu 

PS they are NOT easy to get hold of in the UK or generally in the EU!!!! Strange for a German tyre.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi Jack! 

It's great to hear your comments about these tires. Especially since, if you look back at this thread that you yourself started over 4 years ago you will see that several of us have put the DWS on our Phaetons, and we all seem to be very happy so far. In fact, if you want a laugh, take a look at posts 223, 224, and 225! 

Anyway, as you will remember, I had a rough start, because 3 of the 4 tires from the factory were so out of round, that they could not be properly balanced. It was a real pain, but once that was corrected (Tire Rack was great to deal with) I have remained extremely pleased and I now have about 14,000 miles on the set. 

Please continue to let us know how you like them on the Genesis. 

Best regards, 
Ron M.


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

Hi to Michael. I just put another 1500 miles on the Genesis to NM and back. We hit Amarillo for a night's stop at 112 degrees and a Westerly wind at 40 mph. This was a real shock after the cool of the mountains. 

The Genesis averaged about 26 mpg at an avg speed of 72 on the trip. Hard to beat that in most any high performance machine (under $50K). 

The Phaeton is doing well, altho not driven much. I'm still trying to decide whether to part with it or not. Tough decision. It is such a magnificent car.


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## V10Mike (Jan 24, 2007)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> PS they are NOT easy to get hold of in the UK or generally in the EU!!!! Strange for a German tyre.


 Where did you manage to buy these in the UK? I would like to give them a go, next tire change.


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

V10Mike said:


> Where did you manage to buy these in the UK? I would like to give them a go, next tire change.


 Mike, 

I bought mine from eBay.com (USA)! I looked long and hard in the UK and even Germany. I found a couple of dealers wiling to obtain them at very unreasonable prices. When they are due for replacement I will be returning to Sport Contacts. I tried Pirelli P Zeros but was not impressed, and cannot justify the cost of the Michelin equivalents. 

Stu


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

My 2006 Phaeton had them and they were installed by the dealer who had certified the car. The Conti's didn't last as long as the Michelin I had on the 2004. I think the Conti's had 38,000 miles on them when I replaced them. The were the DWS.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

The DWS have a 6 year / 50,000 mile warranty, so you should have been entitled to a bit of a pro-rated adjustment. That having been said, I'll be thrilled if I get 38,000 miles out of them (or any tire for that matter)! 

Treadlife issue aside, how did you like the DWS? Did they remain quiet as they aged? Overall were you happy with them? 

Ron M.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

These Conti's Extreme Contact tires are very good. I put the DW's (summer tires only) on my Phaeton and they have performed exceptionally. Very sticky, and you can't get them to squeal. BTW, Conti. says you can cross them in an X pattern when rotating which will help minimize noise buildup as they age. Seems to be working for me. 

I have recommended and sold many sets of the DWS's at my shop. I also put them on my wife's 1999 Audi A6. No complaints yet from anyone. 

An interesting note: DWS as text is imbedded in the tread. As the tire wears, the 'S' will disappear to show that it is no longer suitable for snow. Then the 'W' will disappear when it is no longer suitable for wet conditions. Pretty clever, huh?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I finally put the DW on mine last October, I've done 8k on them so far. They're definitely a lot quieter than the previous tyres, but not as quiet as the Pirellis that were on it when I bought it (those had a load rating of 99 and the tread came off in chunks). They're wearing pretty quickly, I'd be surprised if they make it to 20k, and there's some cupping. I've rotated them once so far and as soon as the outside temperature drops to a more manageable 95 or so, I'll be rotating them again. I've been running them with 46lbs on both axles and so far there's no real sign of any edge wear (as there was on the last set), but that might be because I shelled out $300 for an alignment before fitting them. As for handling, the only difference I noticed was a sharper turn-in, but that might just have been because they were new. I've never reached the grip limits of my Phaeton tyres, so I can't comment about any slip-angle differences, the biggest improvement in cornering ability is achieved by using manual mode and cornering with some control from the right foot, that's when it feels as if you're on rails.

As a side note, the DWS tyre was unavailable here, except as a special order.


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## PeterMills (Sep 1, 2006)

"As a side note, the DWS tyre was unavailable here, except as a special order"

But where is here?

Might it be worth putting in your details ....................

PETER M


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

PeterMills said:


> But where is here?
> 
> Might it be worth putting in your details ....................
> 
> PETER M


Good point Peter. So many of our details were wiped out when Vortex changed hosts, that some of us have not yet re-entered our information. Also, many of our newer members seem not to be aware of these data fields, and how helpful just a few details can be to them and to us in communicating effectively. To this very point, I have just "bumped" a thread I started back in January entitled _A request to all phaeton forum members_:

*http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...phaeton-forum-members&p=72638543#post72638543*

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Here is some feedback on Nokian ZG2 tyres with which I just drove 300 miles on both little windy roads and motorway at 100mph.

My previous summer tyres were Dunlop SP9000 (255/45/18) that I kept for around 30kmiles. I did not change them because they were worn out, but because they had become quite loud due to cupping on the sides...

What was pretty annoying with these tyres was that not only were they not symmetrical, but they were also directional, meaning that the only swapping I could do was from back to front (and reverse) but on the same side of the car.

As a result, it was not possible to minimise cupping as could be done with tyres that I could have rotated in an X pattern...

Sometimes, when driving at speeds around 50mph, the car sounded like a truck.

So I went on shopping for new tyres, but was not particularly keen on DWS, knowing that they are apparently not distributed in France (couldn't find them anywhere on internet). My mind was rather set on Yokohama Advan Sport, but while shopping around, I came across Nokian Z G2 that were the second generation of Nokian Z tyres.

Because I have been thoroughly impressed by Nokian WR G2 (my winter tyres) that are so quiet and comfortable (their only problem is that their maximum speed is 230km/h and I often drive up to 250km/h), I decided to go for Nokian Z G2, hoping for the same comfort, but with summer tyres that I could drive at these high speeds.

Two days ago, I had my Dunlop removed and new tyres on.

My immediate feeling was that the tyres were much stiffer than my old Dunlop, that I already considered stiff compared to my WR G2 winter tyres (suprisingly enough, the handling of the WR G2 was better than the summer Dunlop).

With the Z2, I felt a slightly better handling than the Dunlop, but above all, because the tyres are much stiffer, you can feel the road much more, and unless the road is billiard smooth, they are noisy.

On average roads, the noise is quite high pitch and you can feel the surface of the road. I should try to inflate them less than the pressure I used with my Dunlops (2.5 bars front, 2.7 bars rear, when driving on the motoway with a loaded car).

At 100mph, the noise level is such that it is much higher than the cupped Dunlops (!) but different (it is not a truck sound anymore, but a global noise that fills the interior of the car). Conversation is difficult, and I had to pump up the volume of the sound system much more to be able to listen correctly to the music, which was a real disappointment.

After driving at 100mph on the motorway for 200 miles, it seemed that the noise had abated somewhat, so either the tyres started running in, or I may have gotten used to it... I will see on the way back...

However, on a perfectly flat billiard-smooth road, the tyres are nearly totally silent, which is great. Unfortunately, all roads are not perfect.

Anyway, I'm married to those tyres for 30kmiles now... :-(

Should have tried the Yokos, that were more expensive, and said to wear fast, but extremely silent which is what I was primarily looking for...

Will be longing for the winter season to come, now, to enjoy my WR G2 (albeit at a lesser speed).

P.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Threads merged.


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## mlong1 (Dec 6, 2007)

Hello Jack,

What a coincidence, I had the Conti DWS put on my Phaeton last friday.

Glad to hear that you are enjoying the tire. So far, they are significantly quieter than the Yokohamas it replaced.

Marcos


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## Curtsr (Oct 26, 2010)

I have run the DWS on my CTTS for several years. And my 540I Sport before that. I have great summer performance with the DWS and on an AWD vehicle these for me have cut through snow like a hot knife through butter. They are also a quiet tire which we appreciate on our Phaetons. I have these on order for my Phaeton presently for mounting before winter here in Cincinnati.

As car_guy (funny, that's my user name on a baseball forum) indicated, the D,W,S imprints disappear as the tire wears and is no longer suited for that type of enviroment. 

Almost idiot proof and highly recommended!


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## Eyecare (Apr 20, 2006)

Tires in the sizes and load range that the Phaetons need aren't all that common. My original tires were Michelins on 18" rims but eventually they developed humps and were not able to be balanced so I had to replace them. I went with Pirelli P-Zero Rossos on 19" Bentley rims and they worked well for many years as well but now have to be replaced for similar reasons. Both of these tires worked well in their prime and this included many miles of "high speed" (over 130mph) driving in Europe on good roads. 

Unfortunately any tire manufacture can make a bad tire from time to time so having a decent replacement policy can be helpful. It tends to be hit or miss sometimes whether the tires you get will last as expected. Most of the time driving in the US is limited to very (relatively) slow speeds so speed rating probably isn't as important as load range, tire wear, noise and handling characteristics. 

I should add that in Germany (I lived there for 7 years before moving back to Hawaii) it's typical for drivers of most types of cars to have 2 complete sets of tires; one for summer and one for winter. All season tires are seldom used there as they tend to be "a jack of all trades but a master of none". When winter tires are on they'll drive at the slower, recommended speeds for their tires. 

I just ordered a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWs for my 18" rims from Tire Rack and had them shipped to my VW dealer for installation. The weather's always decent in Hawaii and we can't drive that fast here so these should do. These were a less expensive option that replacing the tires on teh 19" Bentley rims. We'll see how they do.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

A relatively easy way to find tires suitable for a Phaeton is to look up tires that are suitable for a Bentley Continental GT or Bentley Continental Flying Spur. These two vehicles are essentially the same as the (heavier weight V10 and W12) Phaetons.

Michael


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## Panther427 (May 20, 2012)

EDIT:
The following is in respect to NAR region cars LWB cars that were equipped from the factor with 255/45/18 103 load rating as factory tire and wheel combos.

I wanna point something that I did not see anyone mention in the eight pages of this thread concerning the load ratings of the tires. A 99 rating would be safe on a heavy phaeton IF and only IF you run the tires at there max rated air pressure . If you look closely at the tires it say max wieght at set pressure. Example. 1678 pounds at 51 psi. And it seems a lot of people were running 99 tires under inflated compared to door/gas cap sticker. This cause the side wall and tread to squirm and flex under use. This and the heat build up from being under inflated cause the chunking, and uneven wear of tires. 

This leads me to the question of why the engineers would choose the 103 rated tires. First there is the extra load capacity gives you a safety margin if someone over loaded the car past GVRW. Next this allows them to run lower tire pressure for ride comfort and still provide the weight carrying capacity need for the car.

Even with what I stated its best to run factory load ratings or higher. But I wanted to point that out for anyone who buys a car like I did with incorrect tires. First thing I did was set correct pressure on my 99 till I find my next set of tires. As the ones on the car are almost done anyways

Cori


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Cori,
I have been using 235/55R17 winter tires with 99 load index in the past two winter seasons without any problem whatsoever with 2.9bar at the front and 2.7bar at the rear.
For you info my 3.0TDI Phaeton weighs 1280kg at the front and 910kg at the rear with 3/4 full tank. 
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

Well here it goes again. I've gone through two sets of Continentals in 30k. Both sets got noisy with inside wear within 8k. After three inspections of suspension components, two "to spec" alignments, religious rotations every 4k, and slightly raised psi, I'm going to try the stock Michelin HX MXM4 with an alignment that takes the rears out 1/4 degree camber. This is getting costly, but i'm determined to get a relatively noise free ride through at least 30k before I need new tires. I've called Michelin, VW North America, and posted a few times on this forum to find other possible causes for my premature tire wear. I hope camber is the fix I've been looking for.


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm having issues with what I believe to be noisy tires as well. I have Pilot Primacy 275/40/19 on Bentley wheels. I've had the car aligned and the wheels balanced, it didn't help. The tires have about 10,000 miles and have been rotated properly.


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## unlimitedpaydays (May 24, 2008)

*choosing and replacing tires*

:laugh: Hello all,wanted to give an update on my yokohama advan envigor tires . Two years and three months now on this set 8,900 miles 245/55/18 103w. I just came back from a two week vacation in Utah. The tires still almost no worn tread . Tech at discount tire says still almost new. $1007.64 out the door with balance and rotation package and 60,000 mileage warranty. I like them a lot. Any of the rest of you tried these yet? Dennis.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

How is the road noise? All my tyres look as if they've suffered hardly any wear up until about 12-15k, then all of a sudden one of the edges will catch my eye, look a bit sketchy, then I find they're all worn about 80% around the edges.


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

Was your alignment to spec or have you modified camber in favor of more even wear?


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## unlimitedpaydays (May 24, 2008)

*correction to yokohama tire review post*

:banghead: Sorry I thought I posted 255/45/18 oops!!!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Here's my two cents on the 18" Continental DWS tyres I put on last week: Very impressed with how quiet they are, it's always difficult to compare with old, bald, noisy tyres, but I don't recall either the Nitto's or the Conti DWs being this quiet when I first installed them. The steering is noticeably lighter, also probably due to the lack of tread on the old tyres. Currently having sway bar links, control arms, etc, done under warranty (woot!), which I assume will include an alignment, so hopefully I can use that as evidence when I make the claim against the 50k warranty on the tyres after they inevitably wear out at around 15k.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

What's the Conti tyre size/spec (in case they are available in Europe - some aren't), and what were the relatively noisy ones before?

I was thinking of changing the Goodyear Eagle F1s if I could find a quieter tyre, but maybe the Contis are about the same quality. The Goodyears are not noisy, but we all seek even more perfection.

Chris


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Continental ExtremeContact DWS 255/45ZR18 103Y XL B
I previously had the DW version on it. The new ones are asymmetrical. The DW was ok, not as quiet, didn't last long, and given your climate the DWS is probably a better choice anyway!
I don't know about over there, but here the Eagle F1s are expensive.

I'm itching to get it back with the new suspension parts on!


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Paximus said:


> What's the Conti tyre size/spec (in case they are available in Europe - some aren't), and what were the relatively noisy ones before?
> 
> I was thinking of changing the Goodyear Eagle F1s if I could find a quieter tyre, but maybe the Contis are about the same quality. The Goodyears are not noisy, but we all seek even more perfection.
> 
> Chris


Chris,

the DWS is not available in the EU, I improted some but prefer the ContiSport Contact 3/5. Quiet good mileage and excellent in the wet.

Stu


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You might try comparing the tread patterns, it wouldn't surprise me if they sell the same tyre but under a different name. They have a slightly strange way of marketing tyres over here, along the lines of the usual American need to pigeon-hole things. Winter/Summer/Sport are the usual classifications, and many of them come with mileage guarantees, which I don't recall seeing in the UK (although it's been a while since I bought tyres there!).


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks! I have 3.5mm to go yet, so I'll do the homework you suggest nearer the time!

Chris


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## planeadam (Nov 26, 2011)

*Continental ExtremeContact DWS*

FYI - I just replaced my 99 load rating Goodyears with a set of 4 ExtremeContact DWS tires from Tire Rack. Amazing improvement and I experienced a little bit of drift for the first 50-100 miles...now tracking straight as an arrow. 

One of the tires purchased was nearly 40 lb out of balance when rotated at hwy speed. Tire Rack had a new one in the mail to me later that day and within 2 days the problem was completely fixed. Great (properly-sized) tires and great service from Tire Rack


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Thanks! I have 3.5mm to go yet, so I'll do the homework you suggest nearer the time!
> Chris


Well, that time has come. Not because I reached the minimum legal tread, but because I hit a deep pothole a couple of hours ago and took out both offside tyres, and possibly the Aristoteles alloys too, although it's too dark to see tonight. 

The car is temporarily abandoned on a wild single-track lane adjacent to a wood currently being logged, which is no doubt the cause of the pothole. Let's hope the poor thing survives without being hit by an articulated tractor!

Apart from sympathy, I'm posting this to ask if anyone had to fix up suspension components after a severe pothole hit. What should I look for? 

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Paximus said:


> because I hit a deep pothole a couple of hours ago and took out both offside tyres, and possibly the Aristoteles alloys too


Ah Chris - now I understand your sudden pothole fixation. Sorry I can't really help with your question about suspension. 

I've become a bit of a Goodyear enthusiast recently - but mainly because the GP0 doesn't seem to eat them as fast as the Bridgestones that it used to be fitted with. But at this time of the year it has to be Sottozeros!

My other advice (probably to be completely discarded as unreliable and hubristic) is to fit 17" wheels so you've more tyre to protect the rim!

Regards

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

These Goodyear F1 Eagle (asymmetric type 1) tyres have done well and seem to be adequately tough - except for cross-country!

I am not a fan of low-profile tyres so perhaps I'll get a set of 17". Most of the mileage on this car is motorway and I never corner hard or fast, too many slow or stopped drivers of tiny local cars round the bend...

Because there are no 18" F1 Eagles withing 70 miles I put on a £35 245/40/ZR18 to get me home and clear of the risk on the road, but that involved visiting 6 tyre shops. I was rudely refused help at two on liability 'jobsworth' grounds (empty shops), had polite service but a two hour delay at two others (full busy shops), one shop closed in the afternoons and finally found one helpful place that sold me the tyre and happily did what was needed.

Meanwhile the roadside assistance guy patiently waited at the car. The RAC were very helpful. 

The Phaeton looks very odd with a small tyre on one wheel and a reversed directional one on another. It drove the same as usual though!

Now for a new set of tyres, an underbody wash and inspection/repair where it de-turfed the verge dragging itself off and some alloy-straightening. :thumbdown:

Chris



*Not very impressive, but bad enough at 40mph*










*Rear*










*Front*










*The suspension refused to go into Jack mode*










*Hmmm - these guys who appeared last month next to the pothole use heavy trucks*


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Probabliy worth pursuing the council.. even if only for the entertainment value.

Refusal to go into jack mode - was this immediately post the problem.. or more likely 24 hours+ later? If the latter this would be quite usual for my GP1... it only goes into jack mode gracefully if the engine has recently been running. Gettting it into jack mode after 24 hours standing is a 50:50 chance. But run the engine for 5 mins and it works every time. Actually - it might just need 5 mins with the ignition on... maybe to sort air reservoir pressures out etc... never did get to the bottom of it.

Another benefit if having winter tyres is that there's alway five spare ones the right size sitting at home... no having to trawl around tyre factors... most of the majors do seem to employ morons... and finding independents at short notice isn't easy... You could even, I dare say without any worry mix different wheels sizes to get you home. The rolling diameters are all about the same within a percent or two.

and insult to injury, that US Goodyear looks like it had lots and lots of tread left...

Let us know when you're fully sorted an mobile again!

Good luck.

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*UK Tyres*

I am in the process of putting on a set of tyres. I thought the other UK folks might be interested in my incomplete list of the options easily available for a V10 load rating.

Prices are simply the first ones that popped up on-line.

The ratings are the new EU labelling requirements where
-- noise is external to the car and not inside it
-- grip relates to wet stopping distance in typical non-frozen temperatures
-- fuel eco rating relates to some measurement that I don't completely understand in kg/tonne, which seems to be a weight-per-weight. Perhaps someone can explain it to me! :screwy:

I think the new labelling puts pressure on manufacturers to get high ratings at the expense of tyre life, since soft tyres are probably quieter.

Cheers,
Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

My 10 V10 wheels/tyres are all 235/50 R18... I guess that's the difference between Champions and Aristoteles....

Regards

M


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Mike,

I suppose the wall height must be the same, more or less?

Chris


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Chris,

You can compare differences in tires including width, radius, and wall height *here*.

Victor


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Thanks, Victor...

The car runs 0.8% faster for a given speedo reading on the 235s compared to the 255s, and the sidewall is 3.2mm taller.

The 255s are £193 and the 235s are £190. What more could I need to know? 

Cheers,
Chris


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

The 235's also appear significantly narrower than the 255's when you look at the "end" view.

Victor


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

It is curious how different tyres look on a car. They usually appear immense in the shop, especially if you have to lift them, and wider tyres always give a better stance.

However, I wonder if the 20mm width difference makes any discernable difference in normal life. I suspect not.

I commonly use a particular specialist tyre shop for the 6 lawn and mini-tractors we run which are forever getting punctures, and last time the shop had some 6ft tall tyres being delivered. After that, I don't care about the width - just feel the height! 

Chris


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Mike,

Thank you for the remarks about the jack mode, they are helpful.

Chris


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

There's a whole thread about it somewhere....


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

tynee said:


> Just took a set of Chinese crap unidirectional tires off and replaced them with a set of Nexen unidirectionals with nearly identical tread pattern. Car drives like an entirely different machine. Much smoother and insanely quiet (at least in comparison). The older tires were fairly new, only 20k miles on them, but hardly any wear. I was so surprised by the difference in just using name brand vs knock offs. So I will be looking for more Nexen's as these wear down.


Eating my words. Looking for a new set now that my third Nexen tire has had a belt separation. 3 tires with separated belts, and I'm never buying Nexen again...

Nexe N3000 for those who want to avoid them.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

tynee said:


> Eating my words. Looking for a new set now




These are fantastic- 255/45R18 | Toyo Versado LX II 

Best price when I bought mine was from here- http://tirecrawler.com/shop/detail_tire.php?product_id=10865


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

tynee said:


> Eating my words. Looking for a new set now that my third Nexen tire has had a belt separation. 3 tires with separated belts, and I'm never buying Nexen again...
> 
> Nexe N3000 for those who want to avoid them.


You made the above post in May 10... just wondering 3 years on how many miles you'd done on them. I'm still wondering whose tyres I trust. I've inherited some Nexens - brand new... but don't really want to use them. I'm not convinced about Bridgestone. Goodyear Eagles seem good to me so far... Interested in Josh's support for Toyo... not made much of an impression over here I don't think - but clearly they are not a budget offering.

For the winter, I've been delighted with Pirelli Sotto Zero. See no reason to move from this brand.

Regards

M


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

n968412L said:


> You made the above post in May 10... just wondering 3 years on how many miles you'd done on them. I'm still wondering whose tyres I trust. I've inherited some Nexens - brand new... but don't really want to use them. I'm not convinced about Bridgestone. Goodyear Eagles seem good to me so far... Interested in Josh's support for Toyo... not made much of an impression over here I don't think - but clearly they are not a budget offering.
> 
> For the winter, I've been delighted with Pirelli Sotto Zero. See no reason to move from this brand.
> 
> ...


Thanks Josh, I'll take a look.

M, I havent put many miles on them at all. Bought another set of rims with Advan sports and burned through those. These Nexens have failed on me once every six months. They are 103 weight rated and inflated properly. The most recent tire was brand new in December, so it only lasted two months before the belts went. The aligbment has always veen done and checked. The mechanics have been surprised I havent had a full blowout yet and had a wreck. I wouldnt put those tires on your car for safety reasons at a minimum.


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

*Toyo*

I put a set of the toyos on my W12 and with 4k now on those tires I'm quite satisfied. I have all tires I buy "trued and balanced" as I'm one of those people that can feel any tire that's not balanced perfectly, even the slightest amount. I even have trailer tires balanced as I'll feel them if there not balanced.
With all that said I'm not 100% happy with the ride, 95% would get it I'd say. My tire dealer, whom I'm very satisfied with felt the lack of perfection arose from the aftermarket wheels that the tires are mounted on not being completely truly round. He felt OEM wheels would solve this issue. He did tell me he was surprised at how true these tires were, having to minimally do any truing to these tires. For those of you unsure what truing is, this is where the tires mounted on the wheel are installed on a machine,spun up to speed and then the high side of the tire(if any) is shaved off giving you a tire that is truly round.

Cantrell


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## acoop (Jan 2, 2012)

*bridgestone turanza serenity for phaeton*

never again. these turanza serenity tires by bridgestone got such great reviews. I bought them. best handling tire best comfort and ride quality ever. Much smoother ride than oem michelins. But my god are they noisy. its really terrible at 40-55 mph as other consumers have noted. I should have paid attention. For the phaeton...wow. Its louder than a snow tire


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

Wow, good to note, I was almost sold on those as being a viable replacement. Thanks!


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## 53 0val (Feb 23, 2010)

PowerDubs said:


> These are fantastic- 255/45R18 | Toyo Versado LX II
> 
> Best price when I bought mine was from here- http://tirecrawler.com/shop/detail_tire.php?product_id=10865



I absolutely LOVE these tires. Josh turned me on to them awhile back, but I did not expect them to be as good as they have turned out to be I will never put anything else on a performance sedan again. These things are dialed in for our cars.

Bob


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

53 0val said:


> I absolutely LOVE these tires. .....These things are dialed in for our cars.
> 
> Bob


Good to know too!

M


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## VloJoh (Jan 2, 2012)

*Factory advice*

Struggling with finding the best tire I asked the factory what they would advise

Dear Mr. V...,
*
there is a difference between German and British names of the rim. In Germany it is called “Challenge”.
This has to be used with tires 255/45R18 103Y.
*
A quite tyre with this size that we would advise is Dunlop SP Sport 01. Our customers have good experiences with GoodYear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2.
*
If you any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind regards from Dresden.
*
Martin Kade
Vertrieb / Sales
Marktbetreuung Deutschland*/ Market Support International
DIE GLÄSERNE MANUFAKTUR
*
Telefon +49 (0) 351 420 - 4441
Telefax +49 (0) 351 420 - 4422
*
www.glaesernemanufaktur.de
www.volkswagen.de
*

I got the Goodyears and have driven them now for about 1000km.

Like the stability at speed and low noise (used to have the Dunlops last summer which were even more quiet)
Still have a bit of an issue with balancing, will return to the shop with that.
Fuel economy is better! I now can get 10.2l/100km driving on the highway when I take it real easy.

Not much experience in the wet up to now.

John


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## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

I went with a set of 5 DWS's, because the wear rating was nice and high, good reviews, and tirerack had a preferred local place listed that has the new Hunter Road Force Balance Touch machine. Figured if I stick with one group of tire people, I could get the best chance at getting the tires balanced near perfect.

I may opt for the toyo's on my other set of rims, once I get those straightened out and refinished.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I have DWS on one of my other cars. The tires I posted are better for the Phaeton.


But since you've already purchased them, it just gives you an excuse to keep the car longer and drive it more. 

:thumbup:


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## mikelaca (Aug 23, 2012)

I'll be getting new tires in a couple weeks. 

just checking to see if those that have put on the above referenced Toyo Tires are still happy and if there are any new thoughts before I grab myself a set of 4.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

If it means anything, I like them enough to have a new set sitting in my basement waiting to be installed on the project GTI I am working on below..:thumbup:


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Hi all,

3 years and halfway through my second set of Continental DWS, and I still love them. See my previous posts in this thread on the subject. Very quiet throughout their lifespan, which has turned out disappointingly to be only about 22,000 miles in Florida conditions. Also, be sure to read my posts from 3 years ago about the road force balancing issue (which has been further commented on by others since then). Remember, I have the extremely heavy NAR W12, which I drive in a "spirited" manner on both highway and surface streets. However, our roads here are flat and at right angles, and never does it snow, so they might not be right for everyone. For me however, being quiet throughout their entire life (not just the first few thousand miles) is most important to me. The extremely good (not perfect) handling is an added benefit. In the rain they are incredible. Also, be aware they come (or at least they used to) with a manufacturer's 1 year or 2/32" road hazard replacement warranty, which is a nice benefit. Also, since they wear out much sooner than their 50,000 mile tread warranty, so long as you take good care of them and can prove proper maintenance such as rotation and alignment, you should get a pro-rated discount on the next set. Anyway, that's just my 2 cents worth. As you will have read, I did try the Serenity, and the Advan Sport, and I was not as happy. Can't speak for any of the others mentioned above, but Tire Rack's customer survey ratings have been fairly helpful when I've had to choose. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Best,
Ron M.


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

mikelaca said:


> I'll be getting new tires in a couple weeks.
> 
> just checking to see if those that have put on the above referenced Toyo Tires are still happy and if there are any new thoughts before I grab myself a set of 4.


 

I've also got the Toyos mentioned above on My W12 and I'm 100% satisfied with them. I'm almost at 20k on these tires and I'm sure they have worn some but it's hard to tell by looking at them. Having my own vehicle lift I've rotated at 5-7k on the tires. At the present rate of appeared wear I should easily reach 40k miles on this set and I'd not be surprised at 45k. 
A lot of my miles are highway miles for what that's worth. I'll be installing a set of these on the Wife's V8 P in the next 2-3 months. Her V8 presently has Hankook V12 tires on it and while they are at the end of their lifespan they are MUCH louder than the Toyo tires. 

Cantrell


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## mikelaca (Aug 23, 2012)

Just got the Toyos put on. I was coming from a set of OEM Michelins

In regards to quiet (tire road noise), they are a perfect 10, it's like I'm driving without tires.

However in regards to smoothness over rough surfaces, or said another way, absorbing bumps, pot holes, and poor condition roads, I don't think they are as good as the OEM Michelin. Is that possible?

Are my pressures too high? What are the Toyo users here running in their tires for pressure?

Could it be these tires trade some sportiness for smoothness?

The best way to describe the rough ride is if I was at Comfort setting 2 of 4 (the highest comfort settings) for the suspension in the Michelins, it feels like I'm on 3 of 4 (the lowest sport setting) with the Toyos, even though the suspension is still 2 of 4.

What do you guys think is going on?


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

I'm running my Toyos at 40psi. 
When I bought my car last year it had some Bridgestone tires that I do not recall only remembering that they were a 99 load rating instead of a 103 load rating. I actually liked how the Bridgestone tires tracked on the interstate a bit better than the Toyos but once I was in the hills and valleys the Toyos really stood head and shoulders above the Bridgestone tires.
I will say that anytime I've put a different tire on any vehicle I've owned for any length of time there's always a period of time needed to get comfortable with the different characteristics of the new tires. At first I wasn't 100% satisfied with the Toyos but once I compared all the characteristics between the 2 tires its quite safe to say that the Toyos will be on the Wife's car this fall and I am 100% happy with the Toyos now.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Check your pressures. It is not uncommon to get new tires and have the pressures be higher than they need to be. This is typically due to the tire shop having to use high pressure to seat the beads and not adjusting afterward.

Tires do have a bit of a break in period. They will 'soften' a bit after driving some, flexing and heat cycling and such.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Noise and ride quality aren't necessarily related, either. Most of the noise comes from the tread, but absorption of bumps by the tyre will depend on the stiffness of the sidewall (for a given pressure).


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## Fraza44 (Dec 13, 2012)

Hi All,


Just wanted to put my vote in for the 255/45R18 | Toyo Versado LX II which I purchased from Tirecrawler.com. I purchased my 2005 V8 Phaeton at the beginning of 2013 and the tires still had tread but they were noisy and making the Womp Womp sound which drove me crazy. 

After reading this post I decided to give the recommended Toyo Versado a try and I couldn't be happier. The tires are quiet, handle very well, and me and the wife are enjoying a totally new riding experience from our Phaeton. I've had the tires about two week now and no problems to report.

I couldn't believe how these tires made such a difference on the handling of the car even though I don't drive to aggressive, the car just seems to go where you point it with easy. Once you get up to the higher highway speeds the tires and engine are so quiet, it's just harmony in cruising:laugh:. 

Best price when I bought mine was from here- http://tirecrawler.com/shop/detail_t...oduct_id=10865


Andre


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Glad you like them. They are a great tire. I love them on my V8 Phaeton, just put a set of them on the GTI I rebuilt in my sig and will buy a set for my W12 when the time comes.


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## GeigerVW (Aug 15, 2012)

Fraza44 said:


> Hi All,
> 
> After reading this post I decided to give the recommended Toyo Versado a try and I couldn't be happier. The tires are quiet, handle very well, and me and the wife are enjoying a totally new riding experience from our Phaeton. I've had the tires about two week now and no problems to report.
> 
> Best price when I bought mine was from here- http://tirecrawler.com/shop/detail_t...oduct_id=10865


I really wanted to get a set of these due to the lower price, but the reviews here scared me off with so many mentioning tread separation and blowouts. I was worried that a heavy Phaeton would be even more prone. I am glad to hear that all is well with several of you that bought them. Maybe that is the next set.

G


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## Ed LeBlanc (Nov 7, 2012)

*Tire weight Phaeton V8*

I am a bit confused. I have just made a very good buy on 3 NEW Michelin 255 45 ZR18 Hx MXM4 tires (looking for a 4th). Here is my problem. These are rated at 99 weight which is 1,709 lbs per tire...which is 6,836 lbs....the phaetons weight is about 5,300 lbs. I am told by Michelin (they were very rude) that I cannot use these tires on my car. why would you rate a tire at 1,709 lbs and not allow it to be used on a car that is lighter. They told me that VW makes the demand for a 103 rateing.
I do not carry people with me. My weight 170 lbs and rarely I do carry a passenger and very rare for me to carry 3 or 4 people. 
So why can I not use the 99 tires? (I would think in a court of law...that Michelin would loose that debate )
The 2nd question...I read where many things are considered when buying a tire. I do not care about taking corners at high speeds....I have a sports car for that sort of driving. I need a tire that is QUITE, comfortable, ease of rolling and long wearing. Does anyone agree with me and do U have an answer. I read where the Toyo Versado LX2 is highly rated for what I seek...then I read it is a very bad tire...then I read that the Michelin Primacy MXV4 is the best for our car (rate very high on Tire Rack list). 
This is a place where we should sahre this info. Tires are something, if U make a mistake, it is costly. Oh...I do not drive in snow EVER (I am in south Texas)
So I am tempted to sell the 3 ZR tires I purchased and buy the Michelin Primacy MXV4 (michelin makes too many differant tires for us old guys)


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*What is best tire for 2004 Phaeton 8 cyl*

The weight of the car is not always dispersed evenly across all 4 tires. 

I've never read a bad thing about the Versado LXII. Please link to your source?


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## saxtonram (May 30, 2013)

Perhaps living in Montana focused me on what dedicated snow tires were being recommended in this thread. The AWD on the Phaeton is great, but I am struggling to find a set of winter tires that keep a smooth ride. I seem to be getting a slight rumble around 60 mph with my snow tires that is NOT there when I have my summer tires on. Could it be the softer rubber on the winter tires? I already tried Yokohama iceGUARDS and am now trying Michelin X-ice. Unfortunately, there are no Nokian distributors in my area. I used to have those on my BMW X5 and worshiped them.


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

Ed LeBlanc said:


> I am a bit confused. I have just made a very good buy on 3 NEW Michelin 255 45 ZR18 Hx MXM4 tires (looking for a 4th). Here is my problem. These are rated at 99 weight which is 1,709 lbs per tire...which is 6,836 lbs....the phaetons weight is about 5,300 lbs. I am told by Michelin (they were very rude) that I cannot use these tires on my car. why would you rate a tire at 1,709 lbs and not allow it to be used on a car that is lighter. They told me that VW makes the demand for a 103 rateing.
> I do not carry people with me. My weight 170 lbs and rarely I do carry a passenger and very rare for me to carry 3 or 4 people.
> So why can I not use the 99 tires? (I would think in a court of law...that Michelin would loose that debate )
> The 2nd question...I read where many things are considered when buying a tire. I do not care about taking corners at high speeds....I have a sports car for that sort of driving. I need a tire that is QUITE, comfortable, ease of rolling and long wearing. Does anyone agree with me and do U have an answer. I read where the Toyo Versado LX2 is highly rated for what I seek...then I read it is a very bad tire...then I read that the Michelin Primacy MXV4 is the best for our car (rate very high on Tire Rack list).
> ...


IIRC the weight distribution is 60% front/40% back so I've read. If this is correct you'd have 1600 lbs per front tire approx. So you'd need to run near max inflation for the 99 rated tires to be able to carry that weight. If you were to ever be in a traffic accident that was tire related the opposing Lawyer would be most proud of the 99 rated tires on a car rated to have 103 rated tires.

With that said, when I bought my W12 it had 99 rated Bridgestones on it ad I ran them until worn out not knowing about the tire rating differential until I began looking for replacements.

If I were you and wanted that 4th Michelin tire then order it,pay for it, and then carry it to a Mom & Pop tire shop. I'm certain they will install it for you.

Now for the Toyo Versado LX II tires. Josh turned me on to these tires and I'm 100% certain they will fit your needs 100%. I driver pretty much as you've described your driving and couldn't be more satisfied. I've already surpassed 26k miles on these tires and I'm sure 40k is easily attainable and most likely 45k before they're worn out.

Go to a truck stop or a grain elevator and weigh your car- total weight, front weight and rear weight, 3 separate times on the scales and see what you find. This should help you finalize a decision on your Michelins.

Cantrell


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

PowerDubs said:


> The weight of the car is not always dispersed evenly across all 4 tires.


Hi Ed:

I think that Josh nailed the reason for the 103 weight rating requirement in his comment above. The only thing I can add to what Cantrell wrote below Josh's comment is that when you apply heavy braking to the car, there is a considerable weight shift onto the front two wheels. 

My own take on your situation is this: Provided you keep the tires properly inflated, and provided you are not pushing the car hard (i.e. 85 MPH on 100 degree summer days), the 99 weight rating tires will probably suffice. Lord only knows how many folks have made a similar mistake (buying tires under the recommended weight rating) in the past. That's not to say that I would recommend deliberately purchasing underweight tires - it's more along the lines of 'you can probably get away with it this time'.

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm not sure the load rating applies solely to the strength of the sidewalls. When I got my car it was fitted with Pirellis with a 99 load rating, and shortly after I bought it the tread started coming off in chunks. The extra weight demand also appears to affect tread design. Personally, I'd replace the tyres. The two things I don't like to mess around with are brakes & tyres.

One other consideration, since the law was mentioned, in the case of failure that causes an accident, you might find the claim denied by the insurance company if they check the load rating on the tyres.


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

AFAIK - It's more of a load-speed rating and is a failure grading test done in a lab.

The test for speed rating is performed in a 25°C room on a machine with a 200cm wheel, where the tyre is loaded at the rated load of the tyre and inflated e.g.:
2.6 bar (38 psi) for S rated tyres
2.8 bar (41 psi) for T, U and H rated tyres
3.0 bar (44 psi) for V and higher rated tyres 

The tyre is started at 40 kph below the speed rating being tested. The tyre runs 10 minutes and then the speed is increased 10 kph and another 10 minutes.
And so on until the target speed is reached.
The tyire is unloaded and unmounted and examined for any failures. if none, then the tyre passes the grading.
The same tyre could be tested with a lower speed rating but higher load rating and pass and be marked as such.
http://www.etrto.org/page.asp?id=1696&langue=EN


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## Fraza44 (Dec 13, 2012)

PowerDubs said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> 
> Glad you like them. They are a great tire. I love them on my V8 Phaeton, just put a set of them on the GTI I rebuilt in my sig and will buy a set for my W12 when the time comes.


PowerDubs, can you tell me what tire pressure you are running on your 255/45R18 | Toyo Versado LX II for half load. Just me and the wife cruising around with nothing in the trunk and I live in Pensacola Florida were the winter are very mild.

Thanks

Andre


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Honestly I am not that picky.

I'll air them up before a road trip or if I know I am going to be hauling ass.

If I am just putting around town here and there, I just check em every couple months.


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## macaddiict (Feb 26, 2003)

Just to add my 2¢, I recently purchased a set of Continental Extreme Contact DWS for my NAR V8 w/ 18" factory rims. I do not like them compared to the original Michelin Radial XSE Pilot HX MXM4 255/45R18 103H M&S 

Compared to the Michelins, I found the Extreme DWS to be:
- rougher riding (bumps/humps in the road more noticeable)
- louder at highway speed (now I hear tire slap at 50mph and up)
- not solid on center (likes to wander)
- very hard to balance (went in multiple times to two shops and I'm still having vibrations at certain speeds)

The Michelins had their downsides:
- rubbery sidewalls that you could feel when cornering quickly
- odd road noise over some surfaces
- not great in rain and snow later in their life

If I were to do it again, I wouldn't buy the Extreme Contact DWS. I'm the type who drives on Comfort all the time and bought the Phaeton, among other reasons, for a silent and smooth ride. If you're similar, I wouldn't recommend the DWS series for you.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

How did the Continentals compare on price to the Michelins?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Stephen:

Thanks for posting your review of the Conti Extreme Contact DWS (Dry, Wet, Snow) tires.

My beloved Yokohama Advans (purchased in 2006!) finally wore out - they still had 5/32 of tread, but the sides of the tires were starting to check and perish, so, I ordered 4 new Conti Extreme Contact DW (Dry, Wet) tires. I have a dedicated set of winter snow tires, hence I didn't order the all-season DWS as you did. Yokohama no longer offers the Advans in the size and weight rating I need for the W12 Phaeton.

I'm hoping that the Conti DWs will be a quiet tire, because a smooth and quiet ride is one of the most important criteria I have when choosing summer tires. Once I get them installed (scheduled for May 13), I'll come back and post a report.

The one pleasant surprise so far is that the price of tires seems to have gone down. I recall paying a bit over USD $300 a tire for the Yokohamas, and the whole set of 4 Conti Extreme Contact DW tires only cost $684. I note that these tires have received reasonably good reviews at The Tire Rack, so, I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Be aware that the recommended tire pressures in North America - the tire pressures shown on the driver door post sticker - are higher than the recommended tire pressures for the rest of the world. The USA passed legislation called 'The TREAD Act' (cute, eh?) many years ago following the problem with Ford Explorer vehicles rolling over, and one of the elements of this legislation was that the car companies had to post the MAXIMUM full-load inflation pressures on the door stickers - they were no longer allowed to post half-load (i.e. driver only, or driver and one passenger) pressures. Back in 2004 to 2006, we had a lot of discussion here in the forum about operating our North American Phaetons using the European specification (in other words, Volkswagen engineering recommended) tire pressures. The main take-away of those discussions was that the car rode better and rode quieter when the tires were inflated according to what Volkswagen engineers recommended, rather than what the US Congress recommended.

Here's the link to that post: Why are the recommended tire pressures so high on North American Phaetons? Give it a read, you might want to try using the VW Engineering recommended pressures if you normally operate at half-loads (driver and 1 passenger only). I found that it made a huge difference to ride comfort both when I had the OEM Michelin all-seasons on, and later when I put the Yokohama dedicated summer tires on.

Michael


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Michael, 


Just curious, are the Toyo's not available in Canada? If they are, why didn't you consider them?

Also, what are your thoughts (and anyone elses) for tires/wheel suggestions that will fit both the load rating and extremely high speed intentions of my W12 as I am in the process of buying new wheels and tires for it.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I guess you will be in 19" ZR(Y) rating territory (the brackets mean something specific)... Above 186mph the suppliers and the official speed rating designations go all coy.

I'll throw in Michelin Pilot Sport to the discussion, to start the ball rolling. It's officially recommended for Phaeton W12, which must help with insurance. Oddly, they suggest a 100 load rating.

(Ignorance is bliss, on my part!)

Chris











image via Michelin.co.uk


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## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

I bought new tires for both W12's last spring. I put them on the 19" Bentley rims for summer driving, so this may not be directly comparable to 18" stock wheels. But, my 2 cents...

I replaced the Pirelli P Zero's on my wife's car. 275/40 R19, load rating 105. They ran nicely, as they did before. Quiet, and with an incredible grip feel. About 1300$.

1300$ hurts, so I tried Hankook Ventus V12 Evo2, same size and load rating, on my car. I actually much preferred these to the Pirelli's! They were about 800$.

I just swapped out the Summer/ Winter sets and was astounded by the difference in wear. The Pirelli's were half worn at her 12,000 miles. The Hankook's have almost twice as much tread left at my 15,000 miles. And there is no doubt my driving is slightly more aggressive than hers...:facepalm:

I did a quick search at TireRack and found the Hankook V12's for the 18" wheels are only about 700$. 

I would gladly replace with the Hankook's on both cars in the future..... Probably as early as next year for my Bride's chariot.

For what it's worth....


Mike


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

PowerDubs said:


> Just curious, are the Toyo's not available in Canada? If they are, why didn't you consider them?


Hi Josh:

I'm not familiar with that tire manufacturer, so, I did not look at them further.



PowerDubs said:


> Also, what are your thoughts (and anyone elses) for tires/wheel suggestions that will fit both the load rating and extremely high speed intentions of my W12 as I am in the process of buying new wheels and tires for it.


I think you should be more than safe with any tire that has a W (270 km/h) or Y (300 km/h) speed rating.  I doubt that you will be travelling for sustained periods of time at speeds above 250 km/h (unless you plan on operating the car on a track that is a continuous loop). So, if you exceed either of those speed ratings for a very short period of time (less than a minute), I don't think you will get into any trouble. As I understand it, the speed ratings guarantee continuous operation at the specified speed.

My guess is that you will probably have other more important considerations for the tire purchase, such as adhesion for braking and accelerating. So, as long as you meet the load rating requirements (103, or what is now called XL) and either the 270 or 300 km/h speed requirement (W or Y, respectively), you should be OK.

An easy way to start might be to take a peek at what the automated tire selection systems (Tire Rack, etc.) suggest for the Bentley Continental GT and Flying Spur. That is where I found the recommendation for the Yokohama Advans that I bought for my W12 back in 2006. They were the OEM spec tires for the Continental GT. Sadly, they are no longer available in the exact correct size (width and aspect ratio) specified for the Phaeton. They, or some other equally good tire, might well be available in a 'suitable' aspect ratio and size that might not be OEM spec but would be close enough to satisfy your needs. I tend to be very conservative, hence, because they were not available in exactly the right size, I chose the Conti DWs that were available in exactly the right size.

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

PowerDubs said:


> Also, what are your thoughts (and anyone elses) for tires/wheel suggestions that will fit both the load rating and extremely high speed intentions of my W12 as I am in the process of buying new wheels and tires for it.


I wouldn't do it on anything other than a fairly new Z-rated (or better) tyre.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Z rating, like Y, is still only <186 mph. 

For use above 186mph/300kph the rating must have the label ZR and a (Y) in brackets. No brackets = below 186mph, brackets = above 186mph (unspecified).

They are fairly widely available for lighter cars, but get rarer for heavier axle weights. That is why I was surprised that Michelin rated the W12 as a 100ZR(Y) load. The V10 would have to be 103ZR(Y), but I doubt that's available.

ZR(Y) tyres are available for Panamera and Phaeton (like the Michelin spec I linked above) but most of the Bentley CGT recommendations are for 20" or 22" alloys.

Chris


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

I took Josh's advice last year and bought Toyo tires in both 18" & 19" sizes and I couldn't be happier with them. If any of you haven't given them due consideration then your leaving a lot on the table.

As I've posted before 40k miles shouldn't be a problem at all to achieve. They are quiet and handle well. If pricing is close at all then the Toyo's should not be overlooked.

Cantrell


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

macaddiict said:


> Just to add my 2¢, I recently purchased a set of Continental Extreme Contact DWS for my NAR V8 w/ 18" factory rims. I do not like them compared to the original Michelin Radial XSE Pilot HX MXM4 255/45R18 103H M&S
> 
> Compared to the Michelins, I found the Extreme DWS to be:
> - rougher riding (bumps/humps in the road more noticeable)
> ...



Hi Macaddict,

I am very sorry and surprised to hear about your displeasure with the Continental DWS, which is exactly the opposite of my experience. When I first bought mine they came with a 30 day customer satisfaction return policy, so maybe that is still an option for you? However, even if it is, just a couple of comments: To confirm, you are referring to the DWS and not the DW, correct, and I assume you purchased the 103 load rating version? Also, did you read my post #215 in this thread? In case you didn’t, and just in case it has any relation to your experience, you will read that the key to my ultimate satisfaction was making sure that Tire Rack road force balanced the tires prior to shipping, since I found out the hard way that they tend (tended?) to have out-of-round issues that could not be solved with balancing, so you must make sure you get good ones in the first place. However, once I got past that obstacle, I have continued to be thrilled with these tires for almost 4 years now (I now have about 18,000 miles on my 2nd set as you see above in my post #316). They are now down to about 4/32 and remain quiet and responsive. I run them at about 43 psi all around, and usually leave my suspension comfort setting on the default 2nd setting. I also wonder is it possible that these tires behave differently on your V8, because it is a little bit lighter and has a slightly different load distribution than a W12.

Of course, the Yokohoma Advan Sports that Michael used to have, and which sadly are no longer available, were spectacular and more of a performance tire, but they just wore out too quickly for me. Of course, many contributors to this thread have had excellent experiences with various other brands and models, and so I hope you find satisfaction. Also, I’m sure weather and road conditions where one lives can make a difference as well, not to mention that much of our tire experiences are subjective.

Best regards,
Ron M.




PanEuropean said:


> Hi Stephen:
> 
> Thanks for posting your review of the Conti Extreme Contact DWS (Dry, Wet, Snow) tires.
> 
> ...


Hi Michael,

Hope all is well with you. Thanks to you I am now back on the forum and able to use my old posting name, and I have a lot of catching up to do, but I’ve just been so busy there’s been no time, but I promise some interesting posts soon to come! Anyway, I certainly hope that your experience with the DWS are more in keeping with my experience than with Macaddicts above! My guess is though that after the Advan Sports, nothing will ever quite compare! I’m very curious to see how this all turns out. I really hope I didn’t steer anyone wrong here, but as you can see I remain an enthusiastic fan of the DWS, so long as the caveats I’ve mentioned previously are avoided.

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I agree with Ron about the DWS. They're completely different from the DW, and even now mine are getting somewhat long in the tooth, they're still pretty quiet. My only issue with them is that because they don't have a directional tread, the rotation pattern tends to be somewhat haphazard, leading to uneven wear and an off-centre steering wheel (it doesn't help that the dealer seems to be incapable of getting it straight during an alignment).


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

invisiblewave said:


> I agree with Ron about the DWS. They're completely different from the DW, and even now mine are getting somewhat long in the tooth, they're still pretty quiet. My only issue with them is that because they don't have a directional tread, the rotation pattern tends to be somewhat haphazard, leading to uneven wear and an off-centre steering wheel (it doesn't help that the dealer seems to be incapable of getting it straight during an alignment).


Hi Invisiblewave,

Your comment about the DWS being a non-directional tire, reminded me that I should tell this story: On my first set of DWS, when they only had about 3,000 miles and were PERFECT, but it was time to rotate, I made the mistake of having them cross-rotated. Of course, with non-directional tread tires this is a perfectly acceptable and encouraged rotation method, which supposedly maximizes tread life and wear. WRONG! They became noisy and wanted to wander all over the place, and it took a couple of thousand miles for them to readjust and “settle in”. Since then, I’ve always treated them as if they were directional tread tires and only rotate front to back, keeping the tires on the same side of the car. Ever since, I’ve never had a problem and they wear evenly, so my personal suggestion is never cross rotate these, even though you can. Also, contrary to some opinions, I keep my spare tire out of the rotation sequence and just leave it in my trunk.

Over the past few years, I have had most of the front end suspension replaced (drop links, upper control arms, lower control arms, and then 6 huge bushings (I forget what they’re called) at the very top of the whole front suspension assembly. This was done for one reason – I am a nut. The car rode ok. However, the slightest squeak, groan, bump, creak makes me crazy. Also, if the car doesn’t feel tight and if there’s any play or pull in the steering or looseness in the ride I obsess about it. These parts were worn, but my guess is that there are plenty of Phaetons out there with these worn parts, and nobody even notices. The point of this admission, is that alignment is now much easier to achieve and maintain, and the tires wear very evenly. Was it worth all the time and money? That’s subjective. The car handles beautifully and is perfectly tight, but now I obsess about the little rattle over my head in the plastic sunshade grille instead!

So, I’m not suggesting anyone goes crazy like I did, but I can attest that by replacing the relatively inexpensive drop links (I think they are also called anti-sway bars) maybe it could make a difference (and there’s a great thread about the subject here in the forum). Though, my guess is that worn control arms are more likely to be the culprit in alignment problems. On this subject, I’m sure many have heard that you can order and just replace and press in bushings and save a lot of money. However, because the metal ball joints (I think that’s what they’re called) at the ends can also wear, I decided to replace the entire parts, since I was going to have the same amount (significant) of labor anyway. Nevertheless, that may have been overkill and bushing replacement may be the more economically intelligent approach, especially if the ball joint ends don’t look worn.

Anyway, the whole point of this post is that evenness of tire tread wear and ride may sometimes have little to do with the actual choice of tire, and more to do with worn suspension related parts.

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

That's exactly what I experienced with the DWS. It drives me crazy when the dealer rotates my tyres, they have no idea what rotation sequence I use, or when it was last done, and they just do it routinely without asking. It wasn't until I came to rotate them myself that I noticed they'd done it again because when I did the front-rear rotation it caused the alignment to move, and on closer inspection of the wear it was evident that they'd cross-rotated them. Those tyres have never been the same since. The only good reason I can see for cross-rotating is if you're having a big cupping problem.

For the rattling sunroof, you can stuff something soft under the plastic and it'll stop it. Looks like ass though. I've had the same problem since my roof was painted, they removed the sunroof and put it back with the rattle. They were also unable to refit the interior roof panel properly where the airbag is over the passenger seat.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

invisiblewave said:


> ... For the rattling sunroof, you can stuff something soft under the plastic and it'll stop it. Looks like ass though. I've had the same problem since my roof was painted, they removed the sunroof and put it back with the rattle. They were also unable to refit the interior roof panel properly where the airbag is over the passenger seat.


Thanks, I think it is the plastic louvers themselves that are sympathetically resonating, and I've tried inserting little rubber pads in between them, but with only limited success. I suspect we aren't the only ones experiencing this, so perhaps others here have come up with an elegant and effective solution?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> I agree with Ron about the DWS. They're completely different from the DW, and even now mine are getting somewhat long in the tooth, they're still pretty quiet. My only issue with them is that because they don't have a directional tread, the rotation pattern tends to be somewhat haphazard, leading to uneven wear and an off-centre steering wheel (it doesn't help that the dealer seems to be incapable of getting it straight during an alignment).


Hi Martin:

I mentioned your comment above to the shop manager at my VW dealer today. This particular VW dealer services about 25 different Phaetons in any given year, and the shop manager had his own Phaeton during the period 2004 to 2008 (it was the 'customer loaner Phaeton' that the dealership kept available to give to Phaeton owners when their car was in for service, except that whenever Phaeton owners brought their car in for service, we all wanted something different to drive, like a Golf, or Eos, or Touareg, hence no-one ever borrowed the loaner Phaeton).

Anyway, he told me that the Continental DWS will develop 'cupping' (uneven tread wear) if they are over-inflated, or if they are inflated to the full load specification (the spec given on the North American door-post) when the car is only operated with a half-load or less. He stated that if these tires are inflated to the European half-load specification when our cars are operated at half-load (two occupants or less), they will wear normally.

Hope that information helps.

Michael

*PS: *I drove a friend's Phaeton today, it was equipped with the Continental DWS, properly inflated to half-load specs. The tires were surprisingly quiet considering that they are all-season tires.


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## Daytonabridge (Jan 19, 2014)

There is a lot of tyre ' snobbery ' around and everyone has a different opinion .
Mr. A likes Michelin
Mr. B rates Goodyear
Mr. C recommends Continental
Mr. D only uses Pirelli
Mr. E chooses Dunlop
My take on this is that all European manufactured tyres are made to a certain standard and are fine , you pay a premium for a ' Premium Tyre ' and this gives a nice warm glow as you have faith in self preservation after spending a small fortune .
Budget tyres have had a mixed reception over the years , some would never use them and some would ONLY use them , probably due to cost .
Most budget tyres are fine , Falken are part of Dunlop and Barum are part of Continental , so quality and developement are very good , it hasn't done Seat and Skoda any harm being part of the VW / Audi Group .
As well as all Premium brands I would be happy to fit good European budget tyres but not any tyre made in China , they are deathtraps especially on our cars . Apart from Cooper I know nothing about US made tyres so I can't comment but I would imagine some serious rubber comes out of the US .


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Daytonabridge said:


> There is a lot of tyre ' snobbery ' around ...I would be happy to fit good European budget tyres but not any tyre made in China


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

I had a set of 4 Continental Extreme Contact 'DW' (Dry and Wet) tires installed yesterday, replacing my beloved Yokohama Advans. Yokohama no longer manufactures the Advans in the size needed by the Phaeton.

So far, I'm pretty pleased with the Contis. They are very quiet. I note that they have a tread wear rating of 340, which is higher than the Advans, which were 300. That's not a very big concern for me, I still had 5/32 of tread on the Advans when I replaced them... they were 8 years old and the sidewalls were starting to crack.

These Continental tires have a clever treadwear measuring system. In addition to the (federally mandated) treadwear bars at 3/32 of an inch, they have the letters D and W cut into the tire (you can see this in the upper right corner of the picture). The letter W is not cut as deeply as the D. When you can no longer see the W, it means that the tire does not have enough tread depth remaining to provide optimum traction on wet surfaces.

Be aware that there are two very different, but similarly named types of tires made by Continental - the 'DW' series, which are summer tires, and the 'DWS' (Dry, Wet, & Snow) which are all-season tires.

Michael

*The new tires
*


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## Daytonabridge (Jan 19, 2014)

Hi Michael , nice tyres and a great touch to have a wear marker cut into them with a dry and wet setting it's something I haven't seen before . I have always been impressed with Continental tyres but Jeeeez they're expensive . A guy local to me bought a BMW 5 series with 2 new Barum 'Bravuris 2' on the rear , he had never heard of the manufacturer so went straight to a tyre shop and had them replaced with Pirellis , same as on the front . I have known about Barum tyres since the 1960's and they are now part of Continental so when this guy put the pair of (10 miles from new) 255/45/18 Barum tyres on e-bay I bid on them , getting them for £25 !!!!!!! They retail for £170 each and the lowest price online was £111 each , result . They are quite a soft compound for a 103 weight and very quiet on a smooth surface with both good dry and wet grip . 


Graham.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

PanEuropean said:


> Hi Martin:
> 
> I mentioned your comment above to the shop manager at my VW dealer today. This particular VW dealer services about 25 different Phaetons in any given year, and the shop manager had his own Phaeton during the period 2004 to 2008 (it was the 'customer loaner Phaeton' that the dealership kept available to give to Phaeton owners when their car was in for service, except that whenever Phaeton owners brought their car in for service, we all wanted something different to drive, like a Golf, or Eos, or Touareg, hence no-one ever borrowed the loaner Phaeton).
> 
> ...


Hi Michael,

I realized I had misread your earlier post, and mistakenly thought you were purchasing the DWS not the DW. Being in Florida, and swearing never to see snow again so long as I live, I was very tempted to buy the DW, but chose the DWS, not because of its all season capabilities, but because back when I was researching the tires, the Tire-Rack customer surveys had given it higher ratings in my most important of categories, the "noise" category, not to mention some other categories as well. However, I have not checked those surveys for quite a while, so perhaps the data has shifted since then. Anyway, I am very curious how you find the DW's, since another tire change is looming on the horizon, and I might consider changing if your experience remains positive. As for cupping, I've had no problem with that. As I've mentioned, I run with 43 psi all around, and usually am driving only by myself or with just 1 other person in the car, and maybe about 75 pounds of stuff in my trunk on average. Looking forward to hearing how they do as you put some miles on them (which I know for you can take a long time!)

Best regards,
Ron M.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Ron:

So far (not much more than 60 miles of city driving, with a wee bit of freeway in there) I am really happy with the Continental Extreme Contact DW tires. They are very quiet. But, 60 miles is not really enough experience to allow for a thorough evaluation.

I drove another W12 (a 2005, with the same mileage as mine, equally well maintained) last weekend, it was fitted with the DWS tires, and I am pretty confident that the DW (summer only) tires are quieter than the DWS (the all-season ones).

Michael


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

QUOTE=PanEuropean;85577183]Hi Ron:

So far (not much more than 60 miles of city driving, with a wee bit of freeway in there) I am really happy with the Continental Extreme Contact DW tires. They are very quiet. But, 60 miles is not really enough experience to allow for a thorough evaluation.

I drove another W12 (a 2005, with the same mileage as mine, equally well maintained) last weekend, it was fitted with the DWS tires, and I am pretty confident that the DW (summer only) tires are quieter than the DWS (the all-season ones).

Michael[/QUOTE]


Hi Michael,

That's very interesting - it's hard to imagine any tire quieter than the DWS, since I find them to be practically silent. Anyway, I just went back and took a look at the Tire Rack survey results pages for both the DW and the DWS, which I hadn't done for about a year or so, and lo and behold it now looks like the DW is just edging out the DWS in the "noise" and "comfort" categories, In which case, I may just consider making a change. Though I'm probably going to have to decide in the next month or two, so do you think you could put a few more miles on them than you usually do and report back 

FYI: Here are the links to the aforementioned survey pages:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=ExtremeContact+DW 

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=ExtremeContact+DWS 


Best,
Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I wonder if they've altered the DW tyre since I had them? My DWS have been significantly quieter, I wasn't very happy at all with the DW.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Another good reason for buying the DWS: they come with a 50k warranty, which the DW don't (at least here). My DWS were almost down to the wear indicators after 13k, I could have squeezed another couple of thousand out of them, but went back to Discount Tire this morning and got a $474 credit against a new set. 4 new DWS, balanced, with TPMS kit + tax for $550. The new ones are near-silent. I can tell how quiet they are because I can hear the intake whine again which I thought had disappeared. The set of DW that I had lasted 15k, but no refund!


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Excellent point, I had forgotten all about the difference in tread warranty. That brings me back squarely into the DWS camp. Of course for certain moderators who tend to drive only a few thousand miles per year, I don't think it will make a difference!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Cantrellc123 said:


> Now for the Toyo Versado LX II tires. Josh turned me on to these tires and I'm 100% certain they will fit your needs 100%. I driver pretty much as you've described your driving and couldn't be more satisfied. I've already surpassed 26k miles on these tires and I'm sure 40k is easily attainable and most likely 45k before they're worn out.
> 
> Cantrell





Now that a few more months have gone by, how are the tires doing? Miles? Issues? 


:beer:


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

PowerDubs said:


> Now that a few more months have gone by, how are the tires doing? Miles? Issues?
> 
> 
> :beer:


I'm now up to 35k on these tires and the wear is good inside and outside with no uneven wear noticed. I'd venture to say 50k will be obtained before they are worn out. These tires are on my Wife's V8 and have been the last 11k miles. 

I'm now running 19" Toyo Proxes on my W12 and I'm equally satisfied with these tires after 10k of drive time.

I've not found any issues with either set so far. Noise levels remain as quiet as they were when new. Of course I think regular rotation helps tremendously with any tire.

Cantrell


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I looked for the Toyos yesterday and couldn't find them at either Tire Rack or Discount Tire. In the end I would have gone for the DWS anyway because of the 50% discount.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Just a follow-up report on my experience with the Continental Extreme Contact 'DW' (Dry & Wet, these are the summer only tires, not to be confused with the 'DWS', which are the Dry, Wet & Snow all-season tires): I am very happy with these tires. I have put 500 miles on them now. They provide a comfortable ride and are very quiet. I recommend them to others.

Michael


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

I think its safe to say there are at least 2 good tire choices for our cars, probably a few more. I think it'd be interesting to take a ride in another Phaeton with the Continental tires on it, get out of one and into the other for a direct comparison. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any forum members nearby or other Phaeton owners for that matter.

He is happy who wants what he has,
Cantrell


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

Cantrellc123 said:


> I think its safe to say there are at least 2 good tire choices for our cars, probably a few more. I think it'd be interesting to take a ride in another Phaeton with the Continental tires on it, get out of one and into the other for a direct comparison. Unfortunately I'm not aware of any forum members nearby or other Phaeton owners for that matter.
> 
> He is happy who wants what he has,
> Cantrell



Agreed! Seems like 4 or 5 really good options now, but I notice no one seems to be singing the praises of the OEM Michelens anymore (which I never liked much). Do they still even make them?

Ron M.


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

I am happy to report that the OEM Michelin MXM4 on my 4.2l have performed much better than my two sets of Continental DWS. 

I rotate my wheels every 4-5k miles and both sets of Continentals were noisy and cupping (I think) after the second rotation. Load rating, alignment, inflation, etc were all correct. I was frustrated. Discount Tire agreed with the poor tire wear and credited me for the purchase.

I purchased the Michelins and have never regretted it. I live in MN and use dedicated snow tires I the winter, so I can't speak to their performance in the cold/snow.


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## conmoto (Jul 8, 2009)

...I have almost 35k miles on the Michelins.


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## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

conmoto said:


> I am happy to report that the OEM Michelin MXM4 on my 4.2l have performed much better than my two sets of Continental DWS.
> 
> I rotate my wheels every 4-5k miles and both sets of Continentals were noisy and cupping (I think) after the second rotation. Load rating, alignment, inflation, etc were all correct. I was frustrated. Discount Tire agreed with the poor tire wear and credited me for the purchase.
> 
> I purchased the Michelins and have never regretted it. I live in MN and use dedicated snow tires I the winter, so I can't speak to their performance in the cold/snow.





conmoto said:


> ...I have almost 35k miles on the Michelins.


Hi conmoto,


Very interesting. Didn't know the tire was still available. I know others here (much earlier in this thread) used to debate the Michelens all the time, but then it seemed to peter out, which is why I was wondering if it was still produced. Even more interesting is that you didn't have a good experience with your DWS. I guess everyone's different, but I also wonder if V8 vs. W12, climate conditions, local road materials, road forced balanced or not, preferred tire pressures, history of suspension work, low vs. high miles, etc., not to mention of course natural subjective perceptions are responsible for such varying experiences. As for tread wear, no question the DWS for me has not impressed, but their warranty compensates well for that, as invisible wave above has mentioned. In any case, it's good to know you can still get the tire that the Phaeton engineers obviously thought was the right choice! Thanks for the update!


Best,
Ron M.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

At Discount Tire last week, the guy mentioned that there had been manufacturing problems with some DWS tires. He didn't elaborate, but was suggesting that might have something to do with the wear rate. I'm not sure I buy that, the DWS lasted a couple of thousand miles less than the DW, which is fine by me if they keep charging me half price, but they're significantly quieter than the DW.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*A cautionary tale...*

Two years ago I picked up a set of 4 Bilzzak snow tires. They are 255 49 19. load rating of 100V with a max load of 1,764 pounds. According to the Bridgestone website they are recommended for the V8 Phaeton.

So I bought them and mounted them on my 19" Bentley wheels.

I once had 6 of these wheels. Now I have 4. Two cracked and were discarded by my local service station. Then I discovered cracked rims can be repaired by welding. In December and February two more cracked and were "remanufactured" to repair their cracked rims. One cracked while mounted on the front driver's side and the other and the other on the rear driver's side. 

So that's 4 cracked rims in about a year and a half!

I'm assuming the tires were not inflated to the proper level as ambient temps dropped this winter or the 1,764 max load rating is too low for the weight of the Phaeton, in which case the recommendation on Bridgestone's website was wrong. I suspect both issues may have played a part. I run 40 pounds air pressure in all four tires. I might up that to 42 pounds. Another possibility is that my 10 year old Bentley wheels are starting to become fragile with age?

A cracked Bentley 19" wheel: This leaked about 10 pounds every 24 hours.


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

*Versace LXII*

The Toyo Versado LX II tires on my Wife's V8 are due replacement. I think we were right at 45k on them. I ordered another set today only to find out they've been discontinued. My dealer found 3 but was unable to secure a 4th. I'm starting an updated search. 
What tires are the rest of you now running?

Cantrell


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## wobegong (Dec 30, 2014)

Dunlop SP Sport 01 on my 3.2 v6 (FWD not 4Motion) fitted approx 10k miles / 22 months ago.

Purchased mainly due to (at the time) them having the lowest dB rating of all the tyres my preferred fitter stocked that fitted the car (plus reasonable reviews of course).
No problems so far, good grip and quiet - wear is even and low so far, they still look new actually.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

The V10 is still running on Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2, which I too chose as being allegedly very quiet. They seemed to be more or less what the factory put on.

The front ones have lasted 20k so far, although the previous set of Asymmetric '1' exposed the sidewall carcase on the near-side front after only 14k miles, running at 41psi. I run at 44psi now, although I still don't like the look of the scrubbed sidewall edge. The tread depth is still OK.

I think Goodyear now sell version 3, but whether that's a specification change or just a switch of factory I don't know.

The main dealer just suggested fitting Falkens, which are a bit cheaper, but I will still go for the quietest I can find.

Chris


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

I just got a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWS06 for one on my W12's. Dealer's recommendation as the Toyo's were no longer made. 

I am happy with them. I drove Continental DWS tires before the Toyo's but switched when those wore out because of concerns in quality control at Continental. They appear to have corrected this.

It is hard to find tires that can handle the weight of the Phaeton, especially the W12. These are 103 rated.

Victor


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## zoltan99 (Jul 22, 2013)

My findings with Phaeton tires are that the Challenge wheels (18x8.5, so any of the 18x8.5 wheels should be the same) will fit 275mm wide tires, and they will work well for up to around 30k miles (maybe 35) driven hard every day (if you get Michelins.)
If you fit Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires you get insane grip, to the point where I could drive to my limits as a driver in weather so wet the road was doubling as a mirror on a windy backroad which had a sign at the beginning reading "Travel not advised in wet weather." Yeah, the rain didn't matter to the car at all, it just gripped and gripped and gripped. These are "Ultra High Performance All-Season" tires, and they really work. They are very quiet for the first 15k, very slightly less quiet for the last 15-20k, and have a 45k mile warranty. Michelin will half the price of your next set if you do not make it to the mileage they warranty. (They no longer make the right size of A/S 3, my old standby, either in stock 255 or enhanced 275mm width, you'd have to get the A/S 3+ in 275/40ZR18, which they do make, for $309/ea)

Right now I have Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires on the car, 255 size, and they are a bummer. They scrub so easily, the car understeers if you even look at it wrong. I am eagerly waiting for these tires to be completely gone so I can enjoy the car for what it is again, on 275 section Michelins.

10 hours later and I want to add that the 275 section Michelin upgrade provides such a difference in handling, even from a highly regarded configuration like 255 Conti DWS's, it's like getting a whole new car. I highly recommend it.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

zoltan99 said:


> My findings with Phaeton tires are that the Challenge wheels (18x8.5, so any of the 18x8.5 wheels should be the same) will fit 275mm wide tires, and they will work well for up to around 30k miles (maybe 35) driven hard every day (if you get Michelins.)
> If you fit Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+ tires you get insane grip, to the point where I could drive to my limits as a driver in weather so wet the road was doubling as a mirror on a windy backroad which had a sign at the beginning reading "Travel not advised in wet weather." Yeah, the rain didn't matter to the car at all, it just gripped and gripped and gripped. These are "Ultra High Performance All-Season" tires, and they really work. They are very quiet for the first 15k, very slightly less quiet for the last 15-20k, and have a 45k mile warranty. Michelin will half the price of your next set if you do not make it to the mileage they warranty. (They no longer make the right size of A/S 3, my old standby, either in stock 255 or enhanced 275mm width, you'd have to get the A/S 3+ in 275/40ZR18, which they do make, for $309/ea)
> 
> Right now I have Continental ExtremeContact DWS tires on the car, 255 size, and they are a bummer. They scrub so easily, the car understeers if you even look at it wrong. I am eagerly waiting for these tires to be completely gone so I can enjoy the car for what it is again, on 275 section Michelins.
> ...



I tried to look them up on TireRack.com by my car and they weren't showing. I found them by searching for all tires in that size and choosing Michelin. Tire Rack shows all of the Michelin 275/40R18 tires they sell are 99Y. 

I thought we had to have 103 load rating? When I got snow tires for Winter 2014, nobody even had 103 load rating in stock locally.

I am running Michelin X-Ice X13 245/45R18 103H XL tires on my 2nd Phaeton. I don't know how well they handle, but they are quiet and grip great in snow. They were Consumer Report's top pick for winter tires when I bought them. 

My Phaetons are both W12s.

-Eric

Edit: Other than the load rating (which may or may not bother you), those Pilot Sports sound great.


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## AJL44 (Mar 23, 2015)

I'm going to change the fronts on my V8 soon. Well, next year when it goes back on the road after the winter.

It currently has Hankooks on the front and Barums? on the rear.

I have 19" Helios wheels and believe that the car would originally have been fitted with Pirelli P-Zero's at the factory. I'd like to replace them with the original type Pirellis unless anyone can suggest something better. I'm not bothered about which is the quietest and not too bothered about wear rates as the car only does about 3k miles a year. I tend to drive it "enthusiastically" so I'm most concerned with finding something which grips the road well and gives the best control on bends, etc.

On a related note; I've been playing about with tyre pressures lately. I've found that running the car with the maximum pressure (44 front, 49 rear) produces a noticeable difference in handling. The car is more controllable and more direct-able through corners on fast roads when set up with those pressures. I also think that it gives a little better fuel economy.


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## sjc123456789 (Apr 2, 2012)

I'm unlucky at the moment, I’ve got damage on my 18 inch winter tyres - meaning i need at least 1 new one, but they're all looking worn and only have 4mm left - i replace tyres at 4mm, so these are going. I'll probably replace these with 18 summer tyres on these wheels (swapping over with 17 inch wheels to winters).

The 17 inch wheels i have are fitted with Pirelli summer tyres, one of them has got a broken metal band /bead and the wheel is now egg shaped. The tyre is .......... and i didn’t notice while it was on the car. The other tyres have around 4mm again, so looks like they're going. I will take this opportunity to change and put winters on the 17’s. 
I’m not 100 % sure what to put on at the moment, I look at price, then think, I want the car to drive and stop – remembering that the 1st foot of the car from the bumper back is a lot more expensive than any possible difference in tyre prices.
I like Michelin, Dunlop and Continental – so will see what’s available and the deals out there. Usually tyres and a-c / a-c and arounf 70db.

Just to make sure I’m keeping the tyre industry busy, the winters on the wife’s golf are to 4mm, it’s a 4 wheel drive too, so looking for a set for that, good news is they’re a lot smaller at 205/55/16 so a lot cheaper.


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

Just used two sets on Hankook evo 275/40/19 on Bentley wheels after the original Pirellis was done. Now I am switching to a set Kumho KU39 ( same size) with chrome Bentley wheels.. I also replaced my 18s with sumitomo tires..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

rrussell said:


> Just used two sets on Hankook evo 275/40/19 on Bentley wheels after the original Pirellis was done. Now I am switching to a set Kumho KU39 ( same size) with chrome Bentley wheels.. I also replaced my 18s with sumitomo tires..
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


I also replaced the TPMS with Autel MX sensors for 25 dollars







each and reprogrammed them.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

I ended up staying with Toyo. They have a Proxy line of tires and all seems great so far.

Cantrell


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

My Kumho tires with new chromed Bentley wheels.










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Wonder if you are still happy with the Contis DWS?*

Hi Victor,
Just wondering if you are still happy with the Contis? Its' time to replace the Bridgestone Serenity Plus tires on my V8, and I was thinking of the Contis: I;m quite happy with the Bridgestones after 39kmiles, but the price differential is significant in favor of the Contis.
Stefano


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi Stefano,

Nice to hear from you.

Yes, I am pleased with the Continental ExtremeContact DWS06's, but I have had them less than a month. I literally just got them before I posted my note. I also had Continental DWS tires in the past and was very happy with them. I switched to the Toyo's when the Continentals wore out due to the high recommendations on the Toyo's from many forum members and because of stories about quality control issues with the DWS's - tires being out of round. Personally, I did not experience any problems with my DWS's, and in reading about the DWS06's, I have not seen this. I thus had no qualms about them when the dealer recommended them. Anecdatally, the DWS's lasted longer than the Toyo's - 55K miles vs. 45K...

Victor


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Costco has Michelins for the 19" Bentley wheels. 
My wife only got 23000 miles but they have a 40000 guarantee.
They happily refunded the difference when I put on a new set. I'll probably keep doing that. 

I've got all sorts of tires on 18 and 19 inch rims currently. I should pay more attention to ride.

So you are getting great mileage Victor. You're not using the W12 to full effect.


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi Steve,



> You're not using the W12 to full effect.


I don't know about that...

I alternate the two as my daily driver, but most of my driving these days is highway miles. The cocou grey one just passed 170,000 miles and is going strong. The black 4-seater is still a baby at 61,000 miles. 

Both love to lope on the highway and I most definitely use the full W12 capabilities. I don't do burnout starting/stopping though; maybe that is the difference. 

The way I see it, if tires are rated for a certain number of miles, that should be a minimum expectation...

Victor


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I've yet to get more than 15k from a set on my V8. However, I think I may now have the camber correctly set for the first time, so it'll be interesting to see how long this set of Continental Control Contacts lasts. So far, they compare very favourably with the DWS, if anything I'd say there's slightly less road noise.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

The weight of this car simply destroys rubber- be it a tire or bushing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

PowerDubs said:


> The weight of this car simply destroys rubber- be it a tire or bushing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How do you explain Victor's lasting ~50k?


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

Interesting...

Do any others here also only get about 1/2 of the rated miles on their tires?

Victor


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think other than you, pretty much everyone only gets about half. So long as you buy tyres with a mileage warranty, it doesn't really matter because they discount the next set by 50%. I haven't paid full price for a set of tyres in years.


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

I don't buy the thought that it is the weight of the car. If one buys tires that are appropriately weight (and speed) rated for a car, there is no reason I can think of (besides driving style) that would make tires not last for the rated miles. Why else would manufacturers rate them for miles and independent testing confirm or at least not challenge this?

Victor


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Victor R said:


> If one buys tires that are appropriately weight (and speed) rated for a car, there is no reason I can think of (besides driving style) that would make tires not last for the rated miles.
> Victor


I can think of four: Bad alignment, over / underinflation, road hazards and vandalism. 


I killed a tire about a month ago by not checking my tires before getting in my old Ford to go to a doctor's appointment. I heard a horrendous noise and I pulled over to check if I had a flat. One of my rear tires was flat. I drove it back home because I was just around the corner and I took the Phaeton to my doctor's appointment. 

The lugs on my Ford were frozen and I couldn't budge them even by standing on the lug wrench. I had to soak the lugs overnight. I couldn't see any holes in the tire so I pumped it up and it not only inflated but stayed inflated overnight. I came to the conclusion that someone had let the air out of it. I changed it and took it down to a tire store to get it checked out. 

Unfortunately I drove too far on it and ruined it. Insurance won't cover it because it wasn't slashed. The tire had plenty of tread left and the car had just passed safety and emissions inspection. I retained it to show the adjuster that the tire still had lots of tread left but the claims person told me over the phone that it wasn't covered. If it had been slashed, it would have been covered by my comprehensive insurance. 

-Eric


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I rotated my wife's tires often enough. Good inflation. Aligned at the dealer. She's at least as genteel a driver as Victor.

So that would leave roads. And during the winters, Philly is the pothole Capitol of North America. Why?. Because Victor doesn't pay enough taxes. But nothing obviously bad happened to any tire.

But Victor doesn't live all that far from me.

The mystery continues unabated. I suspect his tires were better than my Michelins.

I do think the Costco deal is good for long term Phaeton owners, however, even if they don't sell his better tires.

I had Continental DWS on 20" rims and my brother had blowouts on two of them in 24 hours when he returned here from Africa. Potholes. I got rid of the 20 inch rims.


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## Victor R (Jan 7, 2010)

I agree with the potholes around here and have posted previously on that. I my case, the problem has been rims, not tires.

I drive 18" Challenge wheels on both of my W12's. I have had to repair rims repeatedly - at least six times between the two cars, and I had to ultimately replace three that were no longer repairable. Fortunately, I found a set of 4 on eBay that I was able to get refinished for a lot less than four new ones would have set me back, and I now have a spare.

Maybe fate lets me drive tires longer than some to make up for all the $$ I have spent on wheels...

Victor.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I also don't believe it's weight, although that no doubt doesn't help, and contributes in particular to wear on the bushings. I suspect it's a combination of 4WD, suspension rubber, and alignment. My recent alignment/strut experience makes me think that the camber on my car has been off for a long time, leading to the inner edge wear on the front tyres. Worn bushings, a condition most of us probably have to a greater or lesser degree, likely also leads to some excess movement, making things get slightly out of alignment. And, of course, unlike on a 2WD car, even when you rotate regularly, all four tyres are always on driven wheels.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I agree that weight is a factor but definitely not the only factor.

I bought a new Scirocco 16V in 1988 and its Continental Sport Contact tires were bald within 25K miles. All 4 were worn out. Back then they recommended rotating front to back when the front tires got worn if you had FWD. I think I did that but they all needed replacing by 25K miles.

I do remember fishtailing in it pulling out on the road which is almost impossible to do with a FWD car. I turned left onto a main road and gunned it and the rear end slid sideways like I was in a Mustang or Camaro. It was awesome, but I realized it was time to call Tire Rack. 

-Eric


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