# Q5



## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

In my garage...
Traded Tiguan SE 4motion in and it's was time to go back to Audi...


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## tytek (May 14, 2005)

*Re: Q5 (kleinbus)*

no pictures?!


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Q5 (tytek)*

Sorry not yet as I took it to tinting...
It's silver Premium plus with black interior.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Q5 (kleinbus)*




























_Modified by kleinbus at 9:14 PM 3-27-2009_


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## NewAMan (Mar 20, 2009)

Looks great. Did you tint the roof?


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: (NewAMan)*

Yep...
Windshield stripe: 5%
Front doors: 38%
Rear doors and trunk: 5%
Roof: 20%
(on ex Tiguan I had roof also 5% which blocked heat so well that I barely used shade)


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## bayridgeguy (Mar 1, 2009)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

I thought the back and the trunk come factory tinted?


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: (bayridgeguy)*

Yep roof / rear doors and trunk haves light smoke factory tint inside the glass.
I'm not saying it is not enough as most of people finds it fine and I guess I'm weirdo as I have always had everything behind the front doors been tinted as dark as possible. (as in most of EU countries film tint on front doors is no go. Factory light tint can be inside the glass though)
Here in States both of our cars have even front doors tinted with light film.


_Modified by kleinbus at 9:58 PM 3/25/2009_


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## RedBull_MkV (Feb 5, 2007)

*Re: Q5 (kleinbus)*

did you outright purchase and paid off your tiguan? or did you manage to pay a chunk where your equity didn't = your trade? I'm considering a Q5 that's why too.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

for entertainment the shot from rear lights...











_Modified by kleinbus at 3:53 AM 5-8-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Latest tricks:
- RPM and Speedo needle sweep (when key inserted but not started).
- Front LED's stay bright on sidemarker (parking lights) position.


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## veedubmac (Sep 24, 2007)

Are those tricks things done via vagcom?


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## Ru_VR6 (Jan 13, 2001)

*Re: (kleinbus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kleinbus* »_Latest tricks:
- RPM and Speedo needle sweep (when key inserted but not started).
- Front LED's stay bright on sidemarker (parking lights) position.


can you post codes?


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: (Ru_VR6)*

Yep VAG-COM...
I will get you instructions shortly (in few days)


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Zeros and A,B,C are just to pinpoint digit itself, zero does not mean you have zero or 1 (different country different settings) anyways change A,B,C to 1
You have to manually overwrite byte as only sweep is shown when I log on.

Bright front LED for lightswitch parking lights position >< (normal park position LED's are half from DRL brightness): 
Central Elect -> Byte 3: 00000A00 

Needle sweep (B) and laptimer (C):
Instruments -> Byte 1: 0000C00B
Works for A5 and Q5, rest of models I don't know...



_Modified by kleinbus at 9:09 PM 5-6-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Greetings from Moab...


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

And near by where I stayed overnight


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Picture doesn't show true steepness as it was above 80%
Dry day first test and almost flew up, second day after halfday rain another test to see how Quattro works with mud and seems to work well as I stopped on middle of the hill and then pressed gas pedal halfway to see does it get stuck. All 4 wheels spinned a bit and mud flew around (even panorama got share) but it climbed up...


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## TigerinColorado (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I knew quattro drivetrain is best full-time but with street tires I had my doubt....
Moab is something I wanna go back, well all I need do is go and buy MB Unimog for real offroading


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## mapleleafs32 (May 14, 2009)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

As canadians, we get screwed because a lot of the standard equipement that come with the prestige package in the US, is not available in Canada. The options have to be separately added. I got quotes from both the US and Canadian Audi websites and the exact same vehicle is cheaper in the US even with the exchange.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Auto lights*












_Modified by kleinbus at 4:23 PM 5-31-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

In few weeks, another trip to Utah, this time going to stop by at sand dunes and hopefully I can find some river crossings too....








Trip update 06/13, schedule went down to toilet and new date is late July or early August so it takes a while to get some new pictures










_Modified by kleinbus at 4:36 PM 6-13-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

While waiting August and Utah sand dunes trip, finally my dealer got me front filler panel as Kansas does not have front plate.
As I wanted the one without crome strips (S-line) I had to use my magic touch to make it fit...








Yes S-line grill haves bigger holes than mine...








Not the first time when I'm playing Russian rulette, 50/50 chance it either works or not
















German car needs German tools
















Car looks nice but I was covered with plastic crap


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

ready for snow..... (what a timing, it's freakin 103F here)









Now waiting hitch and while waiting seriously debating should I upgrade front fogs to Phillips HID 



_Modified by kleinbus at 4:48 PM 6-24-2009_


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## Shabbis (Jul 13, 1999)

*Re: Q5 (kleinbus)*

Can you please post a Tiguan versus Q5 comparison?
I currently have a Touareg and looking at both the Q5 and Tig!


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: Q5 (Shabbis)*

If you like the Touareg size then get new Touareg TDI and you will get better off-roading, towing and still similar mileage.
I can't compare to our ex Dodge Ram 2500 4x4 Mega Cab Cummins Diesel (best for towing) and Jeep Commander 4x4 Limited (what a gas gussler) as those are different animals, all I can say is that Commander was waste of money...








We got 09 Tiguan SE 4motion on Jul 08 and clocked about 20k miles before trading in to Q5 premium + on Mar 09.
We drove Tig around as it is pleasure to drive, good example is a road trip Kansas City-Denver-Vegas-LA (1600 miles in 26 hours and only pulling over for gas) and 2 weeks later came back same route a bit relaxed pace with sleep over in Colorado.
If you have driven VW's then Tig follows the classic VW interrior that I feel functional and it fills my needs.
It's AWD works great and with Blizzak winter tires we had blast going through Rockies and up to Big Bear in bad snow blizzard.








An hour drive through the blizzard from Crested Butte in CO, with good tires Tig was enjoyable even in few inch deep powder snow that came down 4am when we started.
I checked other CUV's and Tig was one for us. (while I grew up in Europe I got used to drive Audi, BMW cars and bikes, MB cars and 18 wheelers, VW cars and vans so my word might be a bit favourable to German cars)
No complains about the car and I would by another one if I would have use for it, though I would make sure it comes with HID as we drive day and night....

Audi, well we already got 10k miles in 3 months so it is as enjoyable as Tiguan.
A bit bigger and roomier than Tig (downside is that Tig fitted in our garage like a glove but with Q5 I need to pay attention)
More electric gadgets (computer is better, seats, trunk blah blah and haves HID)
Already drove it Kansas City-Denver-Utah-Moab and week later back.
No complains about the car.

If you have specific questions then I will try to answer...











_Modified by kleinbus at 1:06 PM 7-5-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Preface of latest tweak...
While on road, sometimes I play music whole trip and car eats the miles like nothing.
Sometimes radio is off and I enjoy the humming sound of tires and time after time I heard some kind creek/click sound coming from somewhere, either door or roof and appeared at slight unevenness but not at real “off-road” rougher level change.
Some point I got pissed off by this sound and wanted to find out what the heck was going on. I didn’t even think to talk to my dealer as those service writes are arrogant assO and quickly would tell me to go see doctor and check my head as they seem to have spirit “unless the wheel falls off the car is fine”
So as ex European mechanic with metric tools I checked how front panorama sits with roof (even or what edge is lower than other), then I opened the roof to its first position (first counterclockwise click from control wheel). 
Took off the small plastic stripes covering the lift system frame.








Released all 6 Torx screws, when I did that I saw passenger side lift rail moving when tension was released so I knew it wasn’t properly tightened. 








I tightened the screws again in proper sequence and closed the roof to see had it change its alignment compared to roof.
Then I adjusted the door lock strikers on front doors slightly higher and vou lá last 2 days radio have been off and no creaking sounds.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Hahaaa, I got the HID's for fog lights, still missing adapter cable but I had to go and test is it bright as driving lights and does the beam pattern shatter or is it like normal bulb. I threw the bulb in and used jumpers to take power directly from battery.
Man all I can say is “be illuminated” after stupid cheapskate me spent 80 bucks to pathetic PIAA X-Treme white crap and didn’t buy HID at the first place.
Now I’m really looking forward to our night drive to Utah....


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## veedubmac (Sep 24, 2007)

Take some pics when you are done. Will you be using the fog as DRLs in addition to the LED headlamp strips? Or just the LEDs???


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: (veedubmac)*

DRL's will stay as LED
Back home in land of weird laws blah blah we got even tickets if we used fogs at day time and as you know weird old habbits stick hard so I use fogs only at dark / night time when I need more light... 
I had two options available, either buy HID Hella 4000 Compact fog and highbeams and create quick release mounting so I could put them on for long +1000 miles trips OR try HID fogs. 
Decade ago on ex Passat Variat TDI I had pencil beams and fogs above bumper and nights became day














but I would like to have Q5 front to be what it is and not like a christmas tree....
I will add photos once I get the adapter and can complete the installation.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The HID's
Quality vs $$ meaning I wanted Phillips ballast which I used on my BMW bike but those are 600 bucks each (though everything is in the ballast, ignitor etc) and as I didn't know will this work or not I took cheaper route and bought 200 bucks kit. This cheaper kit haves ballast and ignitor separate but there is plenty of room so what the heck.
I also had to add canbus unit to fix the flikering as car computer sends pulses to halogen bulb to see is it burnt or working and causes HID flicker when it's draw drops down and makes computer feel bulb is burnt and then it tries again and again and again.
Anyways, got email from HID company that canbus unit (flickering fix) is soldout and they are waiting new shipment... 
I was looking my screen "man sh#¤ happens"








Well I have Utah trip next weekend and it means 10 hours drive and half night time so I want more light...
Plan B, to find 2200uF 50V capacitors that have been used decades to fix this darn flicking issue. So I drove around the forgotten dead city I happen to live to find out no one haves it in stock, back home and did online order and got stuff in no time.








running out of shrink tube so this is just temp and I will go and have tube covering whole adapter.









Easiest way is to take off the front bottom cover as through the fog covers are real PITA.


















The color difference, photos taken different time from different angle. Upper pattern is driving light and lower is fog.
Piaa X-treme white crap..








HID...











_Modified by kleinbus at 3:44 PM 8-1-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Shrink tube makes difference....


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

First day in Utah and took her to swim lesson




























_Modified by kleinbus at 7:05 PM 8-12-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The day at the sand box...


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Get call from my dealer parts saying hitch is waiting me so once I get back from Utah I have little rear bumper related excersice at my garage...


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Finally got the original adapter from HID shop...










looks almost same as mine


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I got the hitch Monday and sure enough I couldn't wait till weekend








First of all, I AM SICK AND TIRED of these imcompetent service writers that behave like they know everything and still I get more information via these forums. 
First time when I took up the topic of software update required by hitch installation, one moron said there is no such update and end of conversation, I'm sorry I'm busy, bye bye.
Another day another guy, me with my humble "almost on my knees" approach the way "I bought this from you guys and I heard around the corner that somekind software update is required, could you check if this is true" and as usual, the service writer first said there is no such update but he will double check it. Guy came back in few minutes and said there is indeed update required and it will cost me 100 bucks (one hour labour fee)....
With all taxes etc the whole show have costed me 1100 bucks (including hitch and update)
Then on top of all, one dealer says current bumper skin is used, other day and other dealer says they have to order new skin and it would cost arms and legs.
Well hellllooooo AUDI, be consistent and stick with same story and don't play that two face game








All it needed is peel the skin off, cut the darn hole and throw it back..

Ok back to the topic and installation work, I almost broke few plastic clips so don't use brutal force or prepare to stop by at Audi dealer and buy new parts (who knows do they have those in stock or not, seems common part so they should)

The tools I used,

- 10mm extended socket (normal too short so you need at least 1" long to be able to remove bumper nuts), extension and ratchet.

- 10mm open head wrench

- Few different size torx's (if you take rear wheels off, you can use screwdriver with torx head, if wheels on then you need 1/4 torx sockets and ratchet as there is not much room)

- 16mm socket, extension and ratchet (I actually didn't look the socket size, I just took one from 1/2 drive box the way, loose, loose, fits and off it comes )

- Small thin flat head screwdriver (to be able to remove plastic locking washers from fenders).

- Long nose pliers

- Angle grinder with steel cutting disc to make the hole to bumper skin for hitch.
The removal exercise and the car itself, clean the trunk, take off the folding floor, remove the plastic tray if you still have it there, if not then remove other stuff like I had warning triangle, first aid kit and blah blah. Tire can stay there...

You know where is the pump in the trunk? Take the door off. Same to right side and unplug the power socket.

Back to the pump. Pump off you go...

Then with long nose pliers unscrew the 2 silver washers (unclockwise) and pump platform comes off.










While in trunk, remove the tie-down loops and the panel. Use torx and unscrew each and lift off the chrome tie down from both sides. Then fold down the back seat (don't need to lock but at least flip the rear seat folding handle in trunk so they fall down). Look where trunk ends and back seat begins, there is panel going across just behind the back seat. It haves two stage removal.










Lift it up to first pop and then pull it little bit toward you and it comes off. Remember this procedure when you install it back after everything is done. 

Now the floor side panels where tie-down loops were. Stay near the back seats and wiggle up back seat end first and then turn the panel towards the center of the car and then trunk door end comes off. 
The bumper nuts...

Remove the lock cover, lift it from one corner just enough to be able to put your fingers under and pull it little bit, once it pops off, same thing on other side. Don't use screwdriver too much as it is thin stainless steel sheet. Unplug the lock sensor and put the cover away.

then the 4 nuts that may make you nuts if you don't have right tools










Photo below is just to show corner bolts are a bit lower than on middle. Don't try to pull bumper off yet...










The fenders and tricky plastic locking washers 
There is a steel stubs sticking out from fender to hold the inner fender and to be able to bend inner fender a bit out to have access to bumper skin, torx and these palstic washers needs to be taken off.


















With that small screwdriver you gently need to lift up the retainer, though not too much or you hop hop to dealer parts for first visit 










Approx locations of torx's and plastic washers. Unscrew the torx and wiggle the plastic washers off from driver and passenger sides...









Once both sides cleared from washers and screws...

Time to fiddle off the upper bumper corners. Pull inner fender towards the wheel to get your hand between the plastic fender and the car fender.


















Once you do this part, you better remember how you did it as this is the most annoying to do, taking off and put it back 

Then the bottom corner where the wheel arch ends. Get your hand back between the inner and car fender, look all the way down where the arch ends you will see black plastic bumper frame notch holding the skin edge.

Grap the upper edge you just peeled off from plastic frame and as it stick out a bit from car side, pull it down and with with little wiggle with other hand the skin pops off from notch. 

After both sides, there is 2 plastic clips more on each side and then bumper comes off and is held by bumper lights and you need to cut off one ziptie to get a bit more cable.










Unscrewed and removed the alu bar and installed the trailer wiring and also the control box bracket that went behind the right side trunk panel.
Then it was time of the steel hitch...









Then back tracked all screws and bolts back to own location and threw bumper skin back on.

It was midnight so I have no photo from finished installation but maybe tomorrow I will take a shot and add it here. It looks same as photo on IAMAUDI's post (just silver car)
Then I connected the cables to control box and VAG-COMed it to activate the trailer. Works but I also got ESP warning so I unplugged control box and will wait till Friday to get the darn update.
At the end, was this sweat and hours spend worth of all work? I saved about 400 bucks and still have to go to dealer to get the update.
If hitch was available when I got the car then sure I had ordered it with the hitch to avoid whole mess. 
Today if I had been in rush then sure I had paid dealer to do it but on the other hand, this was good excersice to see how it is build at the first place.


















_Modified by kleinbus at 11:48 AM 4/10/2010_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

At the end my dealer is not as bad as I thougth.
I got pissed off by the additional cost service was dumping on me from software update and so I wrote polite email to customer service manager and it seems they appresiated my business so they dropped off the update cost.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Took the car to dealer for tomorrows service and got nice loaner...
(after little spin wife want's to trade Jetta to red A4 3.2L Quattro







)










Service writer babbled about recall for my car and I reminded him about the hitch activation and sofware update.
Now I'm going to go and hunt down the 7 to 4 adapter for trailers with led lights as normal 7 to 4 does not have resistors and will cause bulb warning.



_Modified by kleinbus at 7:48 PM 8-20-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Man that A4 3.2 quattro is nice.... (I wonder would I get rid of Jetta...)








Anyways, got Q5 back and update wiped off all my setting, needle sweep - bright leds - non winking - blah blah, so first thing when I arrived home was plugging laptop in and putting them on again


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Daylight shots above,









Eye level,









Hitch level,


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## DavidSG (Aug 11, 2006)

Any idea if when they do a port install they replace the lower bumper with one with that is precut for the hitch install? I know you can't really see it, but just isn't as clean a look that I would want.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: (DavidSG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DavidSG* »_Any idea if when they do a port install they replace the lower bumper with one with that is precut for the hitch install? I know you can't really see it, but just isn't as clean a look that I would want. 


If Audi haves bumper skin with hitch opening that was on manufacturing mold where bumper skin was made then you will see nice smooth corners and probably edges folded in. If handmade then it is what it is no matter if they have jig or any other type platform to do it. 
German brands are not designed for American hitch with its square receiver tube sticking out as in Europe there is no such structure. In Europe, they have only 2" ball and generally speaking they have 3 different type structures. 
Permanent U type arm that does not require bumper skin modification (design as old as I remember, with U-type I refer structure where tow bar from receiver goes down and passes lower bumper and then comes up where ball is) 









Removable tow bar but its coupler is cone so there is no play between receiver and tow bar once its locked in its location.









Relatively new (have been available some years) flip in for storage – flip out for use type hitch that is similar with U but with link system 
These photos are not mine as I found them after little snoop around. That flip in -flip out is available in Europe and in some other countries (not in NA as it does not have DOT stamp but is CE Europe approved)


























































NOTE: lower bumper cover used on that white car does not work with NA hitch as NA hitch receiver tube sticks out...

From structural standpoint, main problem is relic piece of sh#¤ cheap design of American hitch structure.
American hitch is pretty much worst exchangable hitch structure I have seen on my life as it have way too much play in the structure.
Even on my ex 2500 4x4 Dodge Ram Mega Cab with Cummins Diesel engine which I used to tow heavy 2 and 3 axle trailers, the play between square receiver tube and square tow bar got me annoyed.
Few weeks ago we had 2 atv’s on trailer and towed with my brother-in-law’s new Chrysler mini van and man that klonk klonk klonk and kicking back and forth and side to side reminded me from Ram times and pissed me off.
If the EU flip in – flip out had DOT stamp, I had order it right away as it was on same price range as NA Audi hitch. I almost did it but then when towing and something goes wrong and insurance inspector or police would see non DOT hitch they would pretty quickly say “no DOT hitch no coverage” and I don’t want to play with that…
Too bad there is truly nice hitch with cover available, just not for Americans

























_Modified by kleinbus at 5:10 PM 8-22-2009_


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## DavidSG (Aug 11, 2006)

Quite a wealth of information! Appreciate it. I would probably only use the hitch for hauling a couple of bikes - might just stick with the roof option. Decisions...


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: (DavidSG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DavidSG* »_.......might just stick with the roof option. Decisions...


I had same issue with ex VW Tiguan, how to mount bike rack and I preferred hitch mounting. 
First I got 2" receiver tube (no OEM as its small 1") as it was just about 150 bucks. Sure later brother-in-law saw the hitch and said "good you have hitch you town this..." and I was







in my mind "fu#¤ me being cheapscake" and replied I can't tow because I have no lights. Anyways after that trip I got the trailer control box too.

With that flip-out hitch you could use ball mounted EU racks...
http://www.thule.com/Thule/Pro....aspx

http://www.thule.com/Thule/Pro....aspx

But all that shipping and warranties etc, roof sounds a way to go.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The 15k service screwed up my cruise control and now, on highway speeds and on smooth road I can feel power surge and actually see speedo needle going up and down a bit.
On bumpy highway from dealer I felt cruise was weird but wasn't sure as uneven road and bumps make the feeling kinda "blurry"































we have another several thousand mile trip coming in two weeks and now I have to wait and see can dealer fix this or do I need loaner.

Update 8/24 at 11pm
I found out other Q5 owners having same power surge issue after software update...


















































NA Audi you you you you you
























_Modified by kleinbus at 9:09 PM 8-24-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I got the car back from service day after I dropped it there and they could not find surge problem no matter sales manager and service guy drove it (on bumpy 435 highway).
I drove home and felt it again once I got on smooth highway near by home.
Well, I will have plenty of miles ahead to test as we are going to drive up to Mount Rushmore on Labor Day weekend...

Anyways,
here is few shots more,
the trailer control box and its bracket,










and with 4" drop tow bar,










_Modified by kleinbus at 9:25 PM 8-29-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

What's next







? 
Should I spend 2k for head rest dvd system that no one would use as we don't have kids (yet) or should I go and buy trailer that I could use excuse to buy 2-up ATV for myself and someday small one









Out of the box thougth about the surge issue, I'm not sure it is cruise that did change, instead gas pedal sensitivity on first inch of travel seem to add more gas.
For example, before service when I took off on highway ramp, I had to press pedal at least 3/4 of whole travel to get car moving but now, it seems to get more kick with just pressing 2/5 of travel.
So maybe cruise is same and just fine, it is just more sensitive accelerator control.... ( just a thought







)



_Modified by kleinbus at 1:01 PM 8-30-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I had a little spin with 1 axle utility trailer and only complain is the crappy relic American hitch receiver structure








The square tube structure have too much play in it so there is some klonk sounds and back and forth kicking when empty.
Loaded so far so good.
I just wish European folded hitch would have DOT stamp and I would be happy to pay arms and legs to get real thing











_Modified by kleinbus at 10:43 PM 9-21-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Got mine back from recall service and as usual, all vag-com settings defaulted so plug in and do it again.
Cruise control speed fluctuation is something I have to check once I get to smooth highway as my neck in to woods is bumpy as roller coaster and makes me wonder do they get special training to do that crappy roads. 
I just don't get it, Kansas does not have perma frost nor ground freezing issues that moves the upper layers like they have in Northern Norway, Sweden and Finland. Still Scandinavians can make their roads way better than here so is it just incompetence or what








Car is just 8 months old and odometer rolled over 20k










_Modified by kleinbus at 4:22 AM 11-6-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Next project....
Find a cure for that darn NA klonking hitch to eliminate the sound source, the play between draw bar and square receiver tube....


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## RCM09 (Nov 8, 2009)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

I know what you mean about the hitch banging from the loose fit. It drove me nuts pulling my snowmobile trailer. My solution was to cut pieces of sheet metal and make a small lip on the end. Slide them in with the hitch. Side ones need to be notched so you can put your lock threw. Made a tight fit and no more banging on every little bump.You get the concept so I'm sure there may be a better way.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Re: (RCM09)*

Good to hear you got annoyed as I thought I'm either nuts (common compliment when I went off-roading with my 600lbs bmw gs adventure bike) or rest of the owners here are like those 3 monkeys, no see - no hear - no speak









Anyways, shim's probably allows best tight fitting on all 4 sides but right now I need to find something that stops the up and down play as it seems to be worst on my empty trailer. Loaded it's fine.
I already did one experimental adjuster but I need to throw the draw bar in and pull the trailer couple hours too see does it work and most of all, does it get loose...



_Modified by kleinbus at 2:13 PM 11-8-2009_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Once get this hitch thingie done, next task will be fitting the traction cables (not chains) to all 4 wheels. I know manual says rear wheels only.
I will get one pair to test those on front wheels, if works then I will buy another set to have all 4 wheels and if not then I have something for rear if I ever need (I really doubt as with real winter tires I have never needed chains even at Arctic Circle levels)
First of all, the winter set is same size as org all seasons, 235/60R18, but lucky me, my winter rims ET is few mm smaller than org bringing the rims out a bit more and combined winter tire thread is narrower and the shoulder is sharper. 









With org rims and Dunlops the space between tire and upper suspension knuckle is way too small to be safe. Ultra slim cables I found about 100 bucks a pair might fit and rotate but there is not much room for expansion (or what ever is the term when centrifugal force throws the chain away from tire on radius direction). With my winter set there is plenty of room for slim cable but chain is no go.
Well, first I need to get that hitch adapter test drive done....


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Finally had moment to take trailer for little spin to test my hitch tow bar modification...
No more clonking








Mostly the draw bar is off and when I use it, all I need to do is put the bar locking pin first and then with allen key tighten the bolt.









and the trailer...



















long enough for 2 ATV's


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

It's snowing so time to put winter wheels on...










Will need those when we cross Rockies and go to Utah for X-mas vacation.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Premium plus button under the stick*

Fellow Q5 premium plus owners no matter where you live....
If anyone knows part number for button located here









please post it as I'm looking org button that hopefully would be on-off


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Experiment goes on...



















who knows where I end up with this


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Am I bitchy customer or do I belong to "bad breath and beyond" category when my own dealer didn't find or didn't bother to look around to find this switch set.
I contacted another dealer couple 100 miles away and they found it right away no matter I was missing 3 last digits from part code.
Now I have to wait... ooo christmas tree ooo christmas tree











_Modified by kleinbus at 4:35 AM 12-15-2009_


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## stillspoolin (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

Hey man, just wanna give you some props for a very informative thread! Keep the modifications coming. 
I was just wondering how the Q5 performed in the sand and did you air down the tires? Also looking forward to your Snow Review
I may be looking to buy one next year and since I live right near the beach, will need to tow my jetski, and often travel to NH in the winter, your honest opinion will be much appreciated. Thanks and good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*The sand dunes drive...*

I grew up around Arctic Circle and used to go around the back roads during summer when it was hard, fall when it was soft-muddy-washed out and during winter when unmaintained roads had snow deeper than my hips (I’m tiny 5’9)
Anyways, on other forum I had flamy words “exchange” with fellow who said was 4x4 professional and swore in the name power, wheel spinning and how paddle tires rules.
Sure might work for fellows who tows their toys back and forth and stay relatively hard surface.
During my stupid experimental years I learnt “few” things about driving on soft surfaces and I also learnt shoveling is fun for few minutes but when it becomes sweaty 2 hours exercise, it is something I rather skip if possible. 
Anyways, once we take our normal cars and go snoop around the unbeaten path, paddle tires are not most comfortable on hard surfaces nor I would mount those to my cars anyways, so it needs a bit wisdom to keep going on or otherwise you end up like me and spend few hours shoveling the car out from where you just sunk it. Sure there are winches like I had on my real 4x4 but how many of us would attach those things to their CUV’s?
Few winters ago back in Finland when I had one of the few real 4x4 cars, stock Mercedes G diesel stick with all 3 mechanical differential locks (front-middle-rear). One weekend I went to play around with it on no-winter-maintenance forest road that I knew had surface at summer time but at winter, snow was on my hips as I went there walking and sunk. 
Car had brand new Bf G all terrain 31-11.5-R16 tires so I engaged low range and the 1st gear, locked all 3 locks and gave some gas to climb over the bank from main road. First few car lengths went fine but then wheels started digging and sinking the car, I lifted my feet off from gas and engine on idle kept me going on walking speed and it climbed up again. Few car lengths later I gently pressed gas to try to go faster and same spinning - digging happened again, this time so bad that I got stuck as wheels dug holes for themselves and car sat on snow from its own body / undercarriage. I spend about 2 hours shoveling snow off from under the car and then making track out and back to surface where I were. 
Sand is a bit opposite, you need momentum to keep going and then you have to find flat – level or a bit downhill surface to stop and be able to continue again as if car is on uphill facing upwards, there is greater chance to spin the wheels and get stuck than have smooth start.
I had my doubts with stock tires and how the thread works on soft sand at dunes but for my surprise it worked fine as long as I had flat spot to stop, start and had momentum to keep going. I didn't air down the tires as I was willing to give up the whole experiment if I felt it wasn't worth of effort.
I intentionally got stuck on one uphill as I wanted to see what happens and it was also test to see the relation between soft hill versus required speed versus slightly uphill starting point. I chose uphill to be the spot to get stuck because I knew reversing down will get me off. 
Also start and stop needs to be smooth so you don’t want to let tires dig in, accelerate gently and slow down gently. A while ago I saw wife driving CUV on beach and husband taking photos, when wife stopped, she slammed the brakes and car slid to stop, nothing harsh as it is soft sand but the point is, tires dug in and when husband tried to move the car, it moved slowly and spun the wheels while trying to climb up to sand surface.
I had non such issues when I made sure I accelerated and decelerated smoothly, once car was moving fast enough, I did use manual to keep rpm higher and allowed wheels to spin to get up the hill. 
Towing jetski trailer on beach is not issue and if you need to reverse, prepare the reverse operation the way you go around and align the car the way you can reverse straight path. If you try to do 90 degree corner with trailer on soft sand, you better have backup plan, either shovel or another car to tow you forward and out if needed. 
The loading/unloading ramp or point is another place to pay attention. Concrete is safe for sure but sand easily becomes a nightmare as while it feels hard when it is wet, the returning water (little waves going up and down the shore) eats the sand from front and then under the tire and I have seen bulldozer (landscaping the shore) having hard time getting back to dry land when returning wave and water dug sand off from under its tracks and sunk it a bit deeper.

I have few words about Q5 traction control but I will get back to that topic another day...











_Modified by kleinbus at 12:04 AM 12-18-2009_


----------



## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The Traction control..
With VW Tiguan 4mot I had fun last winter as I enjoyed 4 wheel slides around the corners on few side streets in middle of nowhere with good visibility so I didn't need to gamble would I hit someone oncoming or not. 
Anyways, I miss ice tracks as I grew up north and not so far from ice track. Back home driving license age is 18 and I begun ice track 4 wheel drifting when I was 12 years...
Most fun I got with crappy All-Seasons as those were so slippery on snow and later after I swapped Blizzaks I tried few times but real winter tires grip is so much better that I didn't want to wear them out too early as sometimes the road wasn't completely covered with snow and part of the slide went through bare pavement...
Here comes the "thing", Tiguan with EPS off allowed me to make slow speed drifting up to 25 mph and then once the computer sensed I was going faster, it activated EPS and that killed my drift.
Tiguan is also different as it's off-road capability (program) comes only on Track & Field package that is not sold in NA, so if NA model is driven to cross hunging (on angle over the ditch, the way front left and rear right is on hard land and opposite is hunging on air) it is stuck as it doesn't have Track & Field program that would use ABS sensors to detect spinning wheels and then brake those individual spinning wheels to give powe to wheels on hard land.
Q5 haves this off-road individual wheel braking feature (I tested it already and it works very well) and before anyone flames about off-road and its real meaning and that Q5 nor Tiguan is not for real off-roading, let me clear up that I have build few 4x4 and ever since when I learned what is it through my own hands, I knew if I need to do real off-roading with stock vehicle, I would not buy crappy Jeep nor Hummer (the very first military hummer with all 3 locks got my attention though), no I would get the Mercedes G or Unimog and both as stock vehicle comes with all 3 locks.
Ok that was little bit off the topic so back to Q5.
Depending type of off-roading, driver eaither need to leave ESP on or off.
ON: It brakes each individual wheel and also stability control is on so it doesn't allow drifting.
OFF: Individual wheel braking is off.
Stability control does not seem to go off as a while ago when we got first snow here, I was trying to see how well it manages the 4 wheel drift and I got nice start but the drift was killed by ABS grunching sound so I guess stability control took over. I have to test that again once we get snow and who knows if I go and pull off either ABS or ESP fuses (or both) as I want my drift








Individual braking is more for going over the ditch with slow speed as when it brakes it means you are not accelerating wheels like you would with vehicle with differential locks.
For example, at sand dunes when I was moving already I turned it off to allow wheel spin as ESP ON with individual wheel braking it killed my speed and got me stuck. Big deal as I reversed back to flat and another shot








Another thing to know about ESP OFF...
As car seems to monitor drivers actions and road conditions, it takes a while to understand what the heck you are doing.
Months ago I did my first ditch test with ESP ON, took the 45 deg angle (if would I go straight I would get stuck from middle) to approach the ditch, 
took manual 1st gear, 
pressed gas anough to go about 4-7 mph and pressed my sole against the middle console so my foot wouldn't move and jerk the pedal, 
slowly approached the ditch and drivers side front dropped to ditch and as engine is in front, the car tilted and rear right wheel was on air,
as front is heavier it kept going till it was on cross hunging,
For a split of second I was stuck and I kept my foot against the console to keep wheels spinning and waitied what would happen,
after another split of second computer started the individual wheel braking and up the ditch I went.
Another shot uphill from passenger side and as repeated this time the computer reaction seemed to be a bit faster.
The point is that you need to have some speed (wheels have to rotate) as ABS sensors and computer requires X revolutions per min to understand and activate what ever program needed.
So don't press gas not take your feet off !
Now about the computer monitoring driver and learning, months later after cruising on highways I went back to ditch and repeated it, this time I felt it was a bit more than split of second in a way car/computer was thinking "what the heck dude, we were on pavement and now you want to make me dirty"
I also might lost my sense of time as I held my feet where I placed it and up the ditch we went again..


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Button experiment...
Still waiting for Q5 but I got one for our Jetta where I'm going to do same power button thing for navi.










Lucky me I have my “treasury” box where I have stored (dumped) pile of wrong parts and wrong size or wrong function switch’s.








Found one zip-lock bag with perfect size switches and started to tear down the VW switch I got.








Lid off, bottom off and some grinding and cutting to switch internals…
First test was to see does the button body travel match switch travel, e.g. when I press the button does it activate the switch or not. It did not, actually it did first cycle from OFF to ON but another press didn’t turn ON to OFF.
With pliers I cracked the aftermarket switch off from glue I used to attach it to VW switch body and then shaved off the little notch on each corner to increase the button travel.








Pressed the VW button body slider down to its lowest point to have right position for aftermarket switch and glued it there. Later I threw button lid on and 2nd test, with multimeter connected, click and click and it works…


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

*Hands on about traction*

So we got some snow...
Almost got stuck when high-centered...








I guess growing up at Arctic Circle taught few things about snow so little wheels spin is not that dangerous when car already moves but this time I wanted to make sure I would not spin the wheels and polish the surface under so I would not need to ask folks to come and push me off.
I was only one that got out from cul-de-sac and I happen to live end of it.
- All FWD passenger cars with summers got stuck
- All AWD SUV's with summers got stuck
- 4x4 Ford full-size pick-up with summers and open differentials got out but couldn't turn so we had to push him off so he could go back home.









Went to take little spin and had fun, on the side I also pulled out 2 passenger cars and one Chevy Trailblazer...
Finally came home and it was time to clear rims... 








Hammer is a modern multitool


















This was almost like normal winter day in Finland...

Several hours later after garage dried I went to check everything was fine with car and found out engine bottom cover was bent in after I high-centered it and ploughed through the snow.
Took the Torx tools, unscrewed the front open and as it is plastic, with long crowbar popped it back to its shape and screwed it back on.
I need to invent button that turns Q5 to Mercedes Unimog 5000 series for such snow storms











_Modified by kleinbus at 3:21 PM 2-9-2010_


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## pgoutsos (Dec 1, 2001)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

I'm still waiting for my Q5 to get to me (its on order), but while I'm waiting, trying to see if I could add the rear-heated seats the rest of the world is getting, onto my US Q5. 
Kleinbus, any interest in taking a look to see if the wiring is there already to easily do this retrofit? If the wiring is there, I can't see it being too difficult to just add the switches, and plug it in!


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I was after heated rear seats too and I have part list for roller switch that goes middle console where power socket, wiring is another task as there is no harness but the PITA would be the installation of heating elements to back seat.
Actually middle does not warm up, only the "real" portitions (sides).



_Modified by kleinbus at 12:06 PM 1-8-2010_


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## pgoutsos (Dec 1, 2001)

Sounds like it could be some work. Forgot about having to insert the elements into the seats themselves. I think I'll start watching the Canadian salvage yards for Q5's - will probably be some time before they start rolling in.

Thanks for for the info. 


_Modified by pgoutsos at 4:30 PM 1-8-2010_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The shifter panel and button project is moving slow so for the giggles I plugged in vag-com and snoop around the settings









Now I have:
- car battery charge level bar shown on my car settings


















- higher speed limit that allows access to car menu (normally it have to stand still) 
- higher phone mic sensitivity
- lower radio start volume
- lower phone ringing volume
The phone related is unsure how the new setting affects as I haven't tested with my phone.

Not the most useful feature and I wish I could find the trailer alarm setting as my ex VW Tiguan had trailer alarm the way that if car alarm was on and trailer plug pulled off, alarm went on.
I tried this on mine and nothing happened so I guess it either does not have such function or it is not activated. Trailer comtrol box looks pretty same what I installed to Tiguan but who knows what is inside....
Experiment continues....











_Modified by kleinbus at 9:56 PM 1-15-2010_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Finally the button set arrived and yes with little fiddle here and there I popped the bottom off



























Now I need to wait to get the new shifter panel with two slots....


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## loadedGOLF R (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

how did you do the battery and mic. settings. what are the codes? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## soniouze (Feb 12, 2010)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

awsome info!!! thanks for sharing!!


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I found couple new codes and I will update the list in few days...
- Control for footwell fights
- Disable the windshield "drop wipe"
- Disable automatic rearwindow wipe during reverse if windshield wipers active (while living at arctic circle I broke few rear wipers when car stood outside and rear wiper was frozen)


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## soniouze (Feb 12, 2010)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

sweet!!


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Updated list
I don't know who deserves credit for the newest as those are from A4 and A5 forums and I have not seen these applied to Q5 yet.
Tested on mine and I wish it came that way from factory


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## loadedGOLF R (Jan 16, 2010)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

what's a "drop wipe"?


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

It is the wipe front wipers does after driver uses the front wiper stalk to wipe windshield momentary and does not leave wipers on, a moment later (approx 5 s) it will make single wipe to wipe off the splash what ever drops was left over from main wipe...

For example, driver uses windshield washers and wipers come on, after few wipes there is 5-10 second pause and then one single wipe that is "drop wipe" to remove possible little splashes or drops.


_Modified by kleinbus at 1:17 PM 3-2-2010_


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## ed j (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: (kleinbus)*

I try the "drop wipe" on my Q5 and I get an error message.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I'm using beta 912 if it makes any difference.
Edit 10/March/2010: Drop wipe requires latest on date or Beta 912 (or better in the future)
I went and logged on to see what I get...
and I get error too with message "no coding information available for this ECU" and that is not really system error, it is just notification there is no text and explanations for coding.
Click OK and it goes to normal coding window.










--->










--->










--->











_Modified by kleinbus at 5:38 PM 3-22-2010_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I just booked 25000 miles service and they said it's going to cost me 280 bucks.
WTF I got impression my 740 bucks Audi care would cover everything


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Just called Audi Customer Service and they said they will contact dealer.
This is the reason why I hate local Audi dealer as I have to double check everything they say.
In my books they are bunch of low life despicable creatures on bottom of food chain








The thank you goes to the Audi Customer service as I got call from same fellow with whom I spoke with and they said no charge what so ever. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Last Monday after work dropped off for the 25k service and got S3 loaner and I have to say it is one pocket rocket








Day later dropped off the loaner and picked up mine and learned they didn't have clips that was needed for recall job








Do I need to go and hold the guy from his hand and babysit through the procedures how to go through service schedule, check TSB's and required items by VIN number?
Though on previous services my vag-com settings were defaulted and this time they were active that makes me wonder did service guy forget to default or did he intentionally leave them as was












_Modified by kleinbus at 10:40 AM 3-20-2010_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Last 3 weekends I have been working with ATV to get it streetlegal shape so I can register it when we stop by at Arizona on our way to Utah. Almost done and while waiting few parts I finally had time to work with Q...
Fisrt the darn trunkdoor and dripping water. We used Sikaflex urethane to bond bus windows and actually it is used on most of cars to bond windshield and other "glued" windows so it should be strong enough to fill the gap between the plastic and doorframe.









Then the navigator and hiding the powercord, well things doesn't always go as planned as I had fancy plans to use the "dummy" empty button place and I even got button for it.








The issue is that it is not single button and all 3 is on same circuitboard that I did not want to cut to make room from microswitch I got for this project.
So to screw up the circuitboard or use toggle switch or use push button switch?
Later, first I had to tore off the dash and couple panels...
























to be able to convey the powercord somewhere somehow








I also popped off the middle top mesh from dash, took off the tiny speaker and found the path for powercord. 
Back to the button and one push button seemed to fit like a glove so some soldering and fiddling...
Non of us smokes so the ashtray was feasible place to have power and hide the button
























Now I need to order new mesh cover as last time when I took it off it behave the way I had my fears it either breaks or pops off, first time it popped off and this time few locking latches broke. Well I prepared and awhile ago spoke with parts and it is going to cost me 40 bucks... Well **** happens and rather 40 than 100 bucks










_Modified by kleinbus at 12:47 PM 4-4-2010_


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Finally have time to lay my hands to mesh cover...












Now it I need to start packing as out Utah trip starts coming Wednesday and I will have 2300 mile trip to test Q5 trailering characters :screwy:


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Long distance trailering test ongoinging... 

I had stuff and one ATV on trailer to Utah and then two 2-up ATV's from Salt Lake to Moab and back to Salt Lake. 












Average mileage by computer is around 14 to 16 mpg while hauling 70 -75 mph on highway. I will calculate the real mileage from fuel book once I get home. 

Q5 works fine but my trailer tires are junk biasply and cupped so I have to replace them when I get home.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Back home from trip, stuff still laying around and I have to clean up once I catch my breath... 


One day we went to very same sand dunes where I took Q5 shots and had good time with 2-up atv's. 

Installed the flags... 











Brother-in-law got stuck when he didn't have enough speed... 
































Ready to load to return to Salt Lake.. 











Car performed well and only complain I have is the darn panorama and it verifies what I learned with ex VW Tiguan panorama and it is bluntly saying junk toy for city boys who polish their cars and stay home to keep it shiny. Folks like me who really use the car and haul arse from sunrise to sunset on 3 digit grill from above soon learns that solid roof is the real roof and only way to go. 

We had 5% tint on Tiguan panorama and it made roof bearable but can't see through because it is so dark and if it is so dark then what is the point of whole thing? 

To Q5 we got 20% and thought it would be fine and at least we would see through :screwy: yeah right and this 1200 miles oneway trip was good lesson how solid roof is only car I will buy from now on, "bandage fix" for this heat problem with current is to take it back to tinting company and make them to take off the 20% and install 5% film. 

Rolling miles and soon I need 35k service and already eyeballing 2011 VW Touareg TDI or stay with Q5 and get one with solid roof.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Here is the summary of the trip,


Kansas City - Utah SLC - Moab - Utah SLC - Crested Butte CO - Kansas City.


Towing trailer all the time (trailer with traveling stuff on waterpfoor bags and one 2-up ATV)


Moab trip with two 2-up ATV's


Highway speed 75 mph in KS and CO, 75 and 80 mph in UT. Crossing Rockies on manual to keep RPM's high to stay on best torque range so I know I burned some fuel with heavy foot.

When trip begun from Kansas, we had heavy head wind on our way to CO and I had to keep it on 4th and 5th to keep up on 75 mph, normally without wind runs on 6th just fine. 



By my fuel book,



Trip miles 3488 mi.



Total fuel 214 gallons.



Total fuel cost about $ 630.00



Average consumption 16.2 mpg.



Moab and Utah mountains were so great that I need to go back  (this flat Kansas / Missouri is driving me nuts)


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Some owners may have windshield "bounching" during up or down stroke of wiper arm, bouncing happens (I have encountered it on few other cars) when the tip where wiper attaches is not 90 degrees to windshield.


On some cars you can't maintain perpendicular position from beginning (all the way down) to end (all the way up) as window itself is parabolic so like mine, I used the service position to get wipers up a bit, then with my hand moved to middle way, lift up, place adjustable wrench to all the way up like can be seen from this blurry shot...














and with your other hand hold below the wrench to support the arm itself while you "twist" it and make sure you turn wrench on axis of wiper arm to change the degree it haves when against the window. 


The arm is flexible steel so you you have to turn a bit more than what you want, I have done it little step by step just a turn a bit to see how it aligns and do it again.


After I have given this treatment to any of my cars, no "bounching" issues.


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## vwtoys (Mar 31, 1999)

Lots of great info! Keep it up!:thumbup:


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Ok finally had moment to focus to Q5 again as I just sold my 2009 5x14 steel utility trailer that barely had room to carry two 2-up atv's and got spanking new all aluminum trailer that is able to carry four 2-up atv's, now I need to install the reverse lights etc tool boxes to make it "mine". 


I needed something else to distract me so layed my hands to Q5 again... 

I got the car back from 35000 miles service and no matter I have had ups and downs with my dealer, I got nice S6 as loaner and I have to say I would love to have DSG tranny on Q5 as I really like how it shifts, little bit kick to feel the shifting but not as clear feeling as on real manual I used to drive. 

This is second service when dealer did not reset my settings :thumbup: 

With 37000 on odo, my Dunlop GranTrek all-sesason junks are shot and I have been having hard time to find unidirectional replacement on sizes 235/60 R18. 

No more All-Seasons so I'm after real summer tires and so far Yokohama Advan or Pirelli Scorpion Zero Asymmetrico. Well who knows where I end up with this.... 

The windshield wiper and its rain sensor have been irritating me from day one, that time I didn't have enough experience with vag-com so I just lived with it. The issue was that to me (each of their own ) the little control wheel on right stalk adjusts the "ratio" of rain sensors wiping requirement and was never right to me, mostly it was fine on little drizzle but few drops more and it begun to wipe like the fastest speed ever even before it got to the point of pouring the crap out of the sky. 

I found setting that turns off the rain sensor and now the little control wheel haves 3 different speeds regardless the rain that made me happy camper. I will post the coding shortly...


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## hede (Sep 12, 2010)

Seems I have few things in common with Kleinbus. Driving a Q5:









Wife absolutely loved our old red A4 3.2:









And the final detail can be spotted from the rear 2/3 view here


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I likey the red A4 under the Florida sun :thumbup:

Is there Finnish flag on Q5 rear window? Härmästäkö ollaan?

I'm in Utah while typing this and ATV got sand dunes time at Little Sahara and some mountain time at Eagle Mountains.

Sadly time flies and I have to head back to flat Kansas :thumbdown:

Once I get back Kansas and clean up the mess, I will work out the rain sensor coding


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

2400 miles roundtrip from Kansas City to Utah and back, whole trip was towing all aluminum trailer.











From the Eagle Mountain













Climbing up to Rockies I had it on manual and 3rd 4th gears to keep it on best torque range and it fly up, coming down barely touched brakes as I kept it again on 3rd, 4th and 5th gears to utilize the engine braking and worked well to keep speed within 50-65 mph limit.

On flat highway it was going fine on 6th and 80 mph but when it got little bit hilly, I used manual and 5th and few times even 4th to keep the speed and I know "keeping the speed" kills the mileage. 

I will add the mileage once I do the math from the fuel book.


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## halfduplex (Oct 5, 2010)

What is the actual ground clearance on your Q5? Audi specs list it as 7.8", whereas Consumer Reports says it's only 6.5".

I'm trying to determine whether the Q5 has enough ground clearance for my environment. I live in northern Michigan and spend a lot of time on two-track roads, where high centers and snow require plenty of clearance.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I need to go and measure it from lowest point so I will edit this post once I get it measured...

Anyways, with winter tires snow is fine, powder snow you can go as deep as you want, hard pack I almost got high centered so you have about bottom of the doors.

With one year old all-seasons I had hard time on same places where with winter tires it went like nothing.

On gravel and with passengers, don't bother as it will run out of the ground clearance, on angle, 45 degrees (or so) cross hunging (for example, left front - right rear) I have been able to go over ditches and hill tips that I would be stuck on middle if approched perpendicular.

I went to play on muddy hill that I thought it would get stuck traction vise but it went up like nothing so the traction is not the problem, I have even towed my atv trailer through muddy spots so bad that I would go there only with my atv and even with trailer it went through, sure spun the wheels and mud blimps flew around but didn't get stuck...

I love my Q5 but if you seriously need ground clearance then look something else with higher clearance.

We got bad snow blizzard last winter and mine with winter tires was only one that got out from our cul-de-sac and there is video clip on one of my earlier posts.


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## halfduplex (Oct 5, 2010)

Thanks, Kleinbus. Your posts are always enjoyable and informative.

I'm looking forward to hearing the results of your ground clearance measurement. I would appreciate any details that you can include, such as where the lowest point was, and what kind of load you had in the Q5 when you took the measurement (none, probably).


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Conditions: 

- Tank full. 
- No people in the car. 
- Flat level garage floor. 












Camera (my phone) is lower than eye view to bottom so the measurement is 7.5 inches. 

Bottom is flat and when my tank was full, the car stood level so bottom was pretty much 7.5 everywhere. 

Undercarriage is almost completely covered and there comes the German discipline and price of these things as you look under it looks like made, not like Japanese where you can see mufflers and everything and one hangs lower than other... 

Still this is not off-roader (no matter I have taken mine to places where normal folks dare not)


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The jack points.... 

My jack is low style so who ever is going to work with their own, be sure you don't get jack that doesn't fit under. 


Front, 

I use the lower arm pivot bolt. The arm is not normal A-arm so I don't lift from the arm itself. 











On rear, 

I lift from the platform where spring attaches. Once you look under you will see it. 


When I rotate, I do just 2 tires at the time no matter I have enough stands to hold 2 cars up at the same time. On front I place the stand under the arm that holds the balljoint and on rear there is another arm to use. I also make sure the stand is as close to tire as possible so it wouldn't slide when I lift the other side. 

I have been looking other places to use jacks but I just can't find any, I looked the arm pivots where I usually lift other cars but with Q5 those are so skinny and not full rubber so I dare not lift from it.


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## halfduplex (Oct 5, 2010)

Thanks, Kleinbus. 

You're right about Japanese cars ... the underside looks like an afterthought, with stuff sticking down everywhere. 

On my 2007 Acura MDX, the muffler and exhaust pipes are the lowest points, at 8" with no load. That has proven to be enough for my lifestyle. I suspect the Q5 would be okay, but I wish Audi offered air suspension with variable ride height as an option, a la Touareg and Cayenne.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

halfduplex said:


> ....but I wish Audi offered air suspension with variable ride height as an option, a la Touareg and Cayenne.


 If you want Audi with AIR then you need to look A6 AllRoad or Q7. 

AND if you happen to live in States then all you have is Q7 as AllRoads are not imported. 

I have been going back and forth with same issue, I was looking 2010 VW Touareg TDI with air but I really don't need the HI/LO transfercase as I'm more after mileage and little bit "rough" road capabilites (not off-road). 

I had Mercedes G when I lived in Finland so I know what real machines can do but I really don't need that anymore. 

I had 2007 Ram Megacab 4x4 2500 Cummins diesel and that served us well even on long trips from California to Colorado and back with 5 passengers. I towed dump and car trailers and with all that torque it felt there was no trailer at all. Still at the end, the towing was just tiny part from all miles we drove so truck with bed doesn't really give us what we are looking for and it was one gas guzzler. I rather get Touareg type vehicle that can tow my trailer when we go play with toys no matter is it just 40 miles away or 1200 miles away (like what I have been doing with Q5). 

2011 Q7 TDI with air would be nice :laugh: 

2011 Touareg TDI with air is not imported to States so steel springs it would be... 

Roughly 10k difference.... 

:banghead:


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## halfduplex (Oct 5, 2010)

I would be delighted if I could get a 2011 Touareg with air suspension. Unfortunately, it appears that VW isn't going to offer air on the 2011 Touareg. 

I've searched about half the US VW dealer web sites for 2010 Touaregs with air suspension, and haven't found any. I don't really need the low gears (and wouldn't enjoy the mileage), but a 2010 'Reg with air could definitely handle our rough roads and snow. 

The Q7 is just too big and too ugly, IMO. 

I might end up with a Cayenne. I've found a nearby Porsche dealer that still has a new 2010 V6 with air, at a list price of $66K. If I can get it for about $55, I might do it, despite the gas mileage. 

Otherwise, I may order a 2011 Cayenne V6 with air at a sticker of $67K. The only problem then would be working up the nerve to drive off-road. Or I may get a Q5. The Q5 is a great value, and I would love driving it on pavement. I'd just have to drive more conservatively off-road.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

So original Dunlop Grandtrek All-Season (junk) 235/60 R18 are pretty bald after 42000 miles.

It seems 18" tire size sucks as I'm having hard time to find pure summer tires that are uni directional.

There is Yokohama prada spec-x but it is directional :thumbdown:

There is bunch of junk all-seasons and I truly despise those and hopefully I can find real summers so I don't need to waste my money to "all-junks" :screwy:

Hhhhmmmmm.......


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

No local Yokohama dealers and prada is back order... :thumbdown:

I was looking Advan S.T. too as it is pure summer and uni-directional but some of the reviews complained the noise. I know there is all kind of people among us and some even whining about the rainy day so I really can't count on those reviews.

I ordered set of Yokohama Advan S.T. 235/60R18 from Tiretrack and should have them next week :thumbup:


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I got the Advan's and in few days have to take them to shop to get them on. 

I also got the ultra slim tire cables as I cross the Rockies every year and if they enforce the chains/cables then I have to put them on no matter I would not need them as I have dedicated winter tires. Last year I had real chains from another car and I just carried them in case I was pulled over and had to show I have chains. Later I heard that once in the blue moon they actually make owner to put them on no matter of dedicated winter tires and awd. 

Cables are from SCC-Chain, model Super-Z6, size code SZ429 for 235/60R18 tires. 

As manual says, do not install to front wheels as the upper knuckle clearance is not sufficient. This applies to original rims as the offset brings the tire closer to knuckle. Anyways, I tried and sure it doesn't work, actually it goes there but rubs so the chain would eat the aluminum knuckle and we don't want that.... 


My winter rims are with different offset so I have to test the cables on those when I change to winter wheels and I will update this post once I test it.


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## Uncle Wiggley (Jan 25, 2007)

I am curious if your Q5 has had issues with the hatch partition rattle? and if so how did you fix this? I am working on the sunroof fix you did. Any insight on this hatch issue would be appreciated, thank you.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The portition is first thing I take off from new car :screwy: because the rattling and well, at the moment wife and baby sits on back seat so she haves access to baby stuff in trunk. 

Go HomeDepot and buy roll of Industrial black Velcro and take the fabric side from it. 

Look at the track on each side trunk walls where portition rests and add the fabric side from Velcro the way it covers the bottom and side of the track. 

Black Velcro blends in to black plastics and that is how the front seat safetybelt housing haves protector for rubbing and rattling against the center console. 


How you like your 2T? 

I'm debating do I get another 3.2L or would I get 2T and get it chipped by MTM. 

My roof rattle is gone and once a while all I hear is faint "click" and I can't be sure is it roof or interior panels moving. 

Next Q5 (or Touareg TDI) for sure is without panorama!


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## Uncle Wiggley (Jan 25, 2007)

Hey Thanks for the reply. So after a little more investigating I found that it is the bend joints of the partition, which are hard plastic and squeak along with rattle. This started after we removed it to load up the hatch and then put it back in. 

2.0T, we love it, well my wife drives it more, but when I get to drive it I really enjoy how well the Q5 handles. It is a nice off-road vehicle, not just a pretty cuv/suv, kind of deceptive. 

 We went back and fourth on either the 3.2 & 2.0T, towing. But we are really happy with what the 2.0 can do. Yes the software upgrade is coming soon, I think we are going to give Stasis a try, I will update when we try it. 

The New T-reg is nice, but we fell in love with the Q5 looks, even when dirty. But I think both are nice. 

http://www.stasisengineering.com/sigSeries_Q5.php


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

It was time for 55,000 miles service so paid a visit to dealer....

After little chat I got the printout from service 











and literally  and headed to parts section to get the filters etc and do it myself :facepalm:

Pictures are blurry thanks to my phone camera :laugh:

So first the spark plugs and it is the most time consuming task. Took off the airfilter lid and then removed the air filter housing to give some room to pull out the spark plug coils.

Between the fender and air filter is somekind vent line to housing and by squeezing from serrated parts and pulling down it comes off










Removed the old air filter from lid and almost forgot to take the old O-ring from filter neck 











Passenger side prepared...











Then the drivers side, as I didn't want to play with coolant, I just moved the coolant expansion tank a bit to make room. Unscrewed the two nuts and disconnected the little plastic tube by pulling the wire lock up and pulling the connector off. The tube is plastic and not rubber so be gentle and do not bend it too much so it doesn't collaps and leave a mark on it.










Then removed the 2 screws from each side that secures the spark "rail".

Then the rail / coil connector, DO NOT use force nor tools to pry it open. Push the rail towards to coil head to take play and then with finger tip press the locking latch and move the connection enough so it stays open and repeat same to each and finally move the rail a tad down so there is enough room to pull the coils out.











The red coil heads have gasket and needs to be pulled out perpendicular to valve cover and it haves grooves on it so don't turn or twist










I had to "help" with large screw driver to get my fingers under the coil head and then I just pulled it out.

Spark plug socket and short extension in, then attached ratchet and loosened each. Ratchet off (as there is not enough room to pull out whole thing) and removed one and replaced it right away to eliminate the possibility to drop anything in.

Same operation to other side and then torqued the spark plugs to 22 ft-lbs.

With paper towel cleaned the coil heads and pressed each back to own place where I took it, connected the rack and screwed the securing screws back. 

Then moved the coolant expansion tank back to its place yadda yadda...

Washed the air filter housing, dried it and attached the vent line. The lid haves guiding tabs so while putting it back, it needs attention and goes back to its grooves like it was. If it doesn't line up then one of the tabs at the bottom is not correctly (yes happened to me....)

Oil change is like RS4 wrote...

Briefly saying, 

Use jacks, bottom cover off, oil plug off, oil filter housing nut is 36mm, open it and watch the locking tab!! and filter off. Change both O-rings from oil filter housing, new filter in, cover torqued to 18.5 ft-lbs. Clean the oil fill recess and cap, pour in new oil yadda yadda. Use Vag-Com to reset the service calculator. 

Removed the passenger side foorwell bottom cover and replaced the cab interior pollen filter...


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## HaveBulldogWillTravel (Feb 1, 2011)

kleinbus said:


> It was time for 55,000 miles service so paid a visit to dealer....
> 
> After little chat I got the printout from service
> 
> ...


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I actually had to go to A4 and Q7 sites to snoop around the spark plug procedure as I haven't seen any DYI for Q5 and as usual, procedure was same.

I have been busy with other stuff and I have to update this blog and the VAG codes as I found a way to convert the drop sensing front vipers to normal where speed is controlled by the little knob on right stalk. The rain sensing was driving me nuts as with few drops and adjusting from that little knob, it worked fine but then half drop more and it started wiping with full speed and I had to roll the knob back and forth to make it work "sensible" speed and then minute later it jumped to full speed again.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Front headrest removal (I thought I post this already as I took these shots 2009 when posted on the other forum)


Both sides, front driver and front passenger works same way.

Tilt the back little bit backwards so the headrest can be pulled off.

Follow the headrests left post down on the seats back about an inch and use your thumb. There is no click sound but you should be able to feel the click. Use other hand to push the headrest up and off.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

The long distance towing test going again...

1100 miles from Kansas to Utah with one atv and gears. 

Local trip in Utah with two 800 lbs atv's



















800 + 800 + 750 (trailer) is enough that I had to pay more attention to manual shifting than I had to do when driving up the Rockies with one machine and gears.

With this experience I would not bother to try to tow the rated limit, 4400 lbs and if I would need to tow such loads then I would go and get Dodge Ram with Cummins diesel and be done with it.


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## hede (Sep 12, 2010)

kleinbus said:


> I'm debating do I get another 3.2L or would I get 2T and get it chipped by MTM.


I did drive both 2.0T and 3.2, but decided to go for the 2.0T due to new 8sp transmission and I also preferred the better low end torque.

I just chipped my Q5 2.0T last week. I picked APR since those guys have increased the low end torque even further, not just the high end power. In the daily drive the difference is not that big, but when I did some simple comparison, it seems APR tuned will go to 60mph 1sec and to 100mph 2sec faster. Here's a video comparison, speedo is in km/h but shouldn't be a problem for kleinbus 






I seem to have given stock run a very small advantage when editing


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Hede,

Thanks for the feedback.

I had my 2.0T moment with VW Tiguan 4Mot and somehow I got feeling I had to have heavy foot with it and now I get same mileage with Q5's 3.2L V6, which doesn't really make sense as Q5 is heavier and haves more driveline drag.

I would really love to have 500 miles test drive with both 2.0T with 8 speed and 3.2L with 6 speed to compare actual calculated mileage while towing.

I'm pretty much screwed as I would like to go back to Ram 4x4 3500 with Cummins as it would be best for towing but on the other hand the Touareg TDI would give better mileage and be better all around and still have enough punch for towing.


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## chwang0129 (May 13, 2005)

kleinbus said:


> Not the first time when I'm playing Russian rulette, 50/50 chance it either works or not
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what is that tool and the attachment you're using to notch the holes? Thanks.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Angle grinder and cutting disc


From topic to another, in case someone (not in North America) is looking part number for that flip-in flip-out hitch that is available in Europe, here is the part number. Just remember it's E (EU) approved so if someone imports it to another country and gets into the accident and local cops find out the hitch caused the accident and it's not approved by local road law authority then things get bad in hurry


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

Ok it was fun while it lasted....

Our silver 2009 Audi Q5 3.2L with panorama and 70k on odo is gone :wave: :wave:

replaced by 2012 VW Touareg TDI black on black with NO panorama.











Wife is sooooooooo happy not to have the freaking panorama as she sits on back seat with our baby (kiddo on her car seat).


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## backdoc (Aug 14, 2004)

Sorry to see you go. You are a great source of info and loved your write ups! Good luck with the VW 
:thumbup:


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

I went to test the few possible tow rigs...

- 2012 4x4 Dodge Ram 3500 Magacab with Cummins 6.7L and auto tranny. 2007 I had Megacab with Cummins 5.9L and auto so I knew this would be nice for bigger trailers and 2012 was even better. Yeah don't talk about mileage as it's pretty much 12-17 empty or loaded, though enough torque to tow a house.

- 2012 Touareg TDI..

- plan B was 2012 Q5 with 3.2L

I used to drive TDI's only back in Europe and lots of kilometers with diesel MB's, Audi's and VW's so I pretty well know the diesel side of German cars. I bought my first gasser when I moved to States and ever since I have been looking TDI to get back to torque powahhhh :laugh: :laugh:


Someone needs to start their own Q5 DIY or keep updating this to keep the wvortex up to the speed...


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