# OEM crank swap 1.8 -> 2.0 EA888.. possible?



## dlusion (Mar 17, 2010)

Please correct me if I'm wrong - the only difference between the GTI and Golf 1.8 TSI motors (besides the turbo & tune) is the crankshaft, which accounts for the throw length thus the difference in displacement. So the question is, who's going to be the first to swap a 2.0 EA888 crank into a Golf TSI? Seems like a replacement 2.0 crank could be an "oem" stroker kit for the 1.8, and I assume turbo upgrades & accompanying tunes will become available down the line for the 2.0, so this might be the cheapest path to serious power for the Golf platform... and the lightest weight platform to boot. 

Is this feasible or just ridiculous? I'm pretty sure someone will figure it out in the coming years, till then I'll just enjoy my warranty...


----------



## KGB7 (Aug 21, 2014)

Its more then just a crank that makes a displacement.

Good luck...


----------



## dlusion (Mar 17, 2010)

Well, the bore diameter is the same so what do we have left? Piston shape, con rod length? I'd love to see a breakdown of differences between the two engines. Like I said, purely hypothetical & I'm not going to modify my TSI anytime soon. It'd make more sense to swap vehicles entirely, but I'm curious about the technical differences since the two engines are said to share 90% of components (http://articles.sae.org/11737/).


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

Bore diameter is larger on the 2.0 (82.5mm) versus the 1.8 (81.0mm) which makes the pistons completely different (with the added stroke of the 2.0 crankshaft, the compression height is different). There are also other differences.


----------



## toledospeed (Feb 15, 2015)

rhussjr said:


> Bore diameter is larger on the 2.0 (82.5mm) versus the 1.8 (81.0mm) which makes the pistons completely different (with the added stroke of the 2.0 crankshaft, the compression height is different). There are also other differences.


If you look at the specs here, both GTI 2.0 TSI and Golf 1.8 TSI have the same bore @82.5mm, the 81.0mm is for the TDI.

GTI:
http://media.vw.com/doc/948/2015_vo...ti_specifications-15012859415370d15b81c21.pdf

Golf TSI (left) and TDI (right):
http://media.vw.com/doc/951/2015_vo...lf_specifications-10901339965370d48750f0c.pdf


----------



## 20V1.8T (Jan 30, 2006)

I am interested in this as well, 

As i have looked over the internals specs, and I see that the blocks are identical. Even the crank mains are the same diameter.

So...

- Bore is the same.. Are the pistons domed or dished differently?
- Blocks are the same... Crank and con rods make up for the 0.186L difference? (Literally 1798cc vs 1984cc)
- Are there clearance issues? changes in oil pan depth? oil squirters? head gasket? head?

It would be interested for it to be nothing more then crank and rod swap to bring it up. But.. is that 0.186L worth the parts and effort?


----------



## Brett.M (Mar 17, 2018)

20V1.8T said:


> I am interested in this as well,
> 
> As i have looked over the internals specs, and I see that the blocks are identical. Even the crank mains are the same diameter.
> 
> ...


I thought I saw somebody say something about the 1.8 engine not having the variable valve timing that the 2.0 has. I don't know if that's true or not but maybe something to look into.


----------



## Carl- (Mar 2, 2016)

Brett.M said:


> I thought I saw somebody say something about the 1.8 engine not having the variable valve timing that the 2.0 has. I don't know if that's true or not but maybe something to look into.


Non-MQB does not

MQB does


----------



## 20V1.8T (Jan 30, 2006)

I have been doing some in depth comparisons. VVT was not an issue, It was comparable between the two engines.


----------



## FLcruising (Jan 15, 2018)

Brett.M said:


> I thought I saw somebody say something about the 1.8 engine not having the variable valve timing that the 2.0 has. I don't know if that's true or not but maybe something to look into.





Carl- said:


> Non-MQB does not
> 
> MQB does


Variable Intake Valve Timing.
https://www.vwwebsource.com/modules...rformance/tsi-engine/data/1.8L-TSI-Engine.pdf


----------



## Carl- (Mar 2, 2016)

FLcruising said:


> Variable Intake Valve Timing.
> https://www.vwwebsource.com/modules...rformance/tsi-engine/data/1.8L-TSI-Engine.pdf


I have seen this too, but according to it the 2.0TSI in the GLI does not have exhaust timing. Page 4 has a good compassion. 



http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f...kcdn.com/PDF_6229_VW_FSI_vs_TSI_Revisions.pdf


----------



## MK7_JSW (Jun 10, 2015)

Since stroke and bore is different, does that mean the short block can be swapped? Kinda of like Honda guys do with the B series engines? Sooner or later ill need to do a rebuild at some point as im racking up mileage super fast.


----------



## 20V1.8T (Jan 30, 2006)

This is what I have comparing the two blocks :

*1.8L*
GJL 250 grey cast iron; 33 kg (73 lb), die-forged steel crankshaft with five 58 mm (2.28 in) diameter main bearings, two toothed chain-driven counter-rotating balance shafts suppressing second degree free inertial forces and oil pump, horizontal-baffled oil sump
*Bore* : 82.5mm
*Stroke* : 84.1mm
*CR* : 9.6:1
*Mains*: 58mm

*2.0l*
GJL 250 grey cast iron; 33 kg (73 lb), die-forged steel crankshaft with five 58 mm (2.28 in) diameter main bearings, two chain-driven counter-rotating balance shafts suppressing second degree free inertial forces and oil pump, horizontal-baffled oil sump. 
*Bore *: 82.5mm
*Stroke* : 92.8mm
*CR*: 9.6:1
*Mains*: 58mm

THAT being said... I can't imagine a Crank and Rod swap being a HUGE issue. Since it seems that all other parts are the same. Its a matter of stroke that makes the increase.


----------



## Furrner (Sep 2, 2017)

20V1.8T said:


> This is what I have comparing the two blocks :
> 
> *1.8L*
> GJL 250 grey cast iron; 33 kg (73 lb), die-forged steel crankshaft with five 58 mm (2.28 in) diameter main bearings, two toothed chain-driven counter-rotating balance shafts suppressing second degree free inertial forces and oil pump, horizontal-baffled oil sump
> ...


Are the rods shorter on the long stroke crank? The extra stroke will have to be accounted for either with a 4.3mm taller block deck height, shorter rods or shorter pistons to avoid interference with the head.


----------



## 20V1.8T (Jan 30, 2006)

Furrner said:


> Are the rods shorter on the long stroke crank? The extra stroke will have to be accounted for either with a 4.3mm taller block deck height, shorter rods or shorter pistons to avoid interference with the head.


Shorter rods. Crank has longer swing. This makes up for a longer stroke. It's the rods and crank that are different. 

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


----------



## drader (Apr 3, 2000)

"...die-forged steel crankshaft with five 58 mm..."

This means the 1.8 DOES have a forged crank? And large bearings?


----------



## drader (Apr 3, 2000)

Everything I've read says the 1.8 has 48mm bearings "to reduce friction", so I think your specs above are wrong.


----------



## Bert3734 (Jan 30, 2016)

Any more on this. I’m definitely interested in building a motor for my Alltrack. I’ve heard the headaches folks are going through with swapping the whole 2.0 motor. I’d rather just swap the bottom end.


----------



## staysleepy (Sep 20, 2018)

did anyone ever do this? seems like it would be pretty MQB to make the only difference between the two displacements a few parts.


----------



## 20V1.8T (Jan 30, 2006)

My goal is to bump everything up to 2.0L, 

the 1.8T main bearing Part # is : 06K 105 561 Upper
06K 105 591 Lower

the 2.0T main bearing Part # is : 06H 105 561 K Upper
06H 105 591 K Lower

The thrust washers Part # : WHT 000 033 H 1.8T
WHT 000 033 F 2.0T

Both share the same dimensions : 57.5 X 70.5 X 1.975

I am going to order myself a pair of both and measure the inner, and outer diameters of the bearings, along with thickness and flange height


----------



## DbilasTDI (Nov 5, 2017)

Just get a complete 2.0 swap


----------



## staysleepy (Sep 20, 2018)

20V1.8T said:


> My goal is to bump everything up to 2.0L,
> 
> the 1.8T main bearing Part # is : 06K 105 561 Upper
> 06K 105 591 Lower
> ...


stoked!!! ill be following. would love to do this if its remotely feasible for a 1 or 2 day project.


----------



## Carl- (Mar 2, 2016)

20V1.8T said:


> My goal is to bump everything up to 2.0L,
> 
> the 1.8T main bearing Part # is : 06K 105 561 Upper
> 06K 105 591 Lower
> ...


How is it going? This sounds interesting.


----------



## trep13 (Nov 8, 2012)

thats good news for sure! 
Someone in europe told me they swap the 2.0T CCH block (gti..) and run the same 1.8T ECU... and bigger turbo is38, gtx.. a engine tune.. and 450hp.. 
if so, we will see soon some 2.0T swap in 1.8T to have R specs engine... boom, R wagon clone on stage 2 and im good to go  
If someone did it , please share . 
I am happy to hear this honestly.

* But 2.5T is "THE ULTIMATE" swap you want to my eyes... if one need to be done.. but at what price!? thats the thing.. futur will tell.. if some fit our 2.5 n/a built with turbo into mqb.. gonna be amazing.


----------



## TillyNJA4 (Feb 13, 2007)

subbed for more news


----------



## NinjaMK6 (May 5, 2018)

Interested, want to see more on this :thumbup:


----------



## dogmangler (Jan 20, 2018)

Any news on this front? I’m in full-on chassis update mode because I can’t seem to settle on a path for engine upgrades. Stage 3 is38 just doesn’t seem worth it for a little over 300 peak hp/tq when the 2.0 makes like 350 tq. With just a tune and downpipe...


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

It's possible.

You'd have to get custom pistons made with a higher pin location to compensate for the longer stroke. Should be doable, but I'd just swing for the 2.0 block as it has strong forged internals, just needs a heavy dutyrod for big HP, and valvetrain work if you're going for high HP.

This was a very common thing for the 06A engines. A 2.0 crank, 144mm rods, and custom pistons in a 1.8 block. Just needs the right parts and some boring to happen.


----------



## Nunya_Binnez (Dec 19, 2012)

16plus4v said:


> It's possible.
> 
> You'd have to get custom pistons made with a higher pin location to compensate for the longer stroke. Should be doable, but I'd just swing for the 2.0 block as it has strong forged internals, just needs a heavy dutyrod for big HP, and valvetrain work if you're going for high HP.
> 
> This was a very common thing for the 06A engines. A 2.0 crank, 144mm rods, and custom pistons in a 1.8 block. Just needs the right parts and some boring to happen.


I did a little sleuthing on the interwebs and it appears to me that the 1.8 and 2.0 blocks are interchangeable. This is based almost entirely on part numbers. There are quite a few different ones but I stopped looking when I found a match, specifically:

06K 100 033

Take that with a grain of salt with the understanding that I know two things about the EA888.3, Jack and $hit, and Jack left town.


NDB

"Sheep ave two speeds. Graze and stampeed." - LTC Dave Grossman


----------



## Nunya_Binnez (Dec 19, 2012)

20V1.8T said:


> My goal is to bump everything up to 2.0L,
> 
> the 1.8T main bearing Part # is : 06K 105 561 Upper
> 06K 105 591 Lower
> ...


Subbed. I'm curious to know the result.


NDB

"Sheep ave two speeds. Graze and stampeed." - LTC Dave Grossman


----------



## Zxoboe (Feb 24, 2021)

dlusion said:


> Please correct me if I'm wrong - the only difference between the GTI and Golf 1.8 TSI motors (besides the turbo & tune) is the crankshaft, which accounts for the throw length thus the difference in displacement. So the question is, who's going to be the first to swap a 2.0 EA888 crank into a Golf TSI? Seems like a replacement 2.0 crank could be an "oem" stroker kit for the 1.8, and I assume turbo upgrades & accompanying tunes will become available down the line for the 2.0, so this might be the cheapest path to serious power for the Golf platform... and the lightest weight platform to boot.
> 
> Is this feasible or just ridiculous? I'm pretty sure someone will figure it out in the coming years, till then I'll just enjoy my warranty...


 I just done the works for my engine. I don’t know how much cost swap a 2.0.but for me at China, I prefer make 1.8 to 2.0 and same time use some good racing parts 1,u need s3/7r crank shaft,bearing is 48mm,then u don’t need change block,2,144mm Rods I use forged from maxracing,.3 oem 2.0 pistons but I use forged piston,depending how high boost u want later 4,oem 2.0 injectors 5,hitachi hi press fuel pump.thats the all parts can make ur engine just strong like s3 or even better


----------



## Zxoboe (Feb 24, 2021)

Zxoboe said:


> I just done the works for my engine. I don’t know how much cost swap a 2.0.but for me at China, I prefer make 1.8 to 2.0 and same time use some good racing parts 1,u need s3/7r crank shaft,bearing is 48mm,then u don’t need change block,2,144mm Rods I use forged from maxracing,.3 oem 2.0 pistons but I use forged piston,depending how high boost u want later 4,oem 2.0 injectors 5,hitachi hi press fuel pump.thats the all parts can make ur engine just strong like s3 or even better
> View attachment 71545
> View attachment 71546
> View attachment 71547
> ...


By the way,this engine is ea888 gen1 bzb.for ea888 gen3 cjs,the block just 100% same


----------



## FLcruising (Jan 15, 2018)

Zxoboe said:


> By the way,this engine is ea888 gen1 bzb.for ea888 gen3 cjs,the block just 100% same


Amazing. Can you run stock ECU?
When this is back together, please follow-up with info.


----------



## Zxoboe (Feb 24, 2021)

FLcruising said:


> Amazing. Can you run stock ECU?
> When this is back together, please follow-up with info.


Of course stock ecu with remapping will work perfectly,but here is the tip.check ur high fuel pressure,if it’s made by Bosch,u need change 2.0 injectors,fuel pressure regulator made by Hitachi.depend what gen ea888 u have,gen1/gen2 u should change and better change 2.0 ECU,gen3 just running the stock one


----------



## Maxsdv (7 mo ago)

Zxoboe said:


> Of course stock ecu with remapping will work perfectly,but here is the tip.check ur high fuel pressure,if it’s made by Bosch,u need change 2.0 injectors,fuel pressure regulator made by Hitachi.depend what gen ea888 u have,gen1/gen2 u should change and better change 2.0 ECU,gen3 just running the stock one


Sorry, i'm a little confused. Could you please let me know what upgrades are required to convert a 1.8tsi ea888 gen3 mqb to a 2.0tsi ?


----------



## Trilogy1 (5 mo ago)

20V1.8T said:


> This is what I have comparing the two blocks : *1.8L* GJL 250 grey cast iron; 33 kg (73 lb), die-forged steel crankshaft with five 58 mm (2.28 in) diameter main bearings, two toothed chain-driven counter-rotating balance shafts suppressing second degree free inertial forces and oil pump, horizontal-baffled oil sump *Bore* : 82.5mm *Stroke* : 84.1mm *CR* : 9.6:1 *Mains*: 58mm *2.0l* GJL 250 grey cast iron; 33 kg (73 lb), die-forged steel crankshaft with five 58 mm (2.28 in) diameter main bearings, two chain-driven counter-rotating balance shafts suppressing second degree free inertial forces and oil pump, horizontal-baffled oil sump. *Bore *: 82.5mm *Stroke* : 92.8mm *CR*: 9.6:1 *Mains*: 58mm THAT being said... I can't imagine a Crank and Rod swap being a HUGE issue. Since it seems that all other parts are the same. Its a matter of stroke that makes the increase.


 Would a mk6 gti crankshaft fit in a mk6 gli?


----------

