# 16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake) P0011 - 35-00 - Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

Just got the car running after doing the timing chains and replacing the broken intermediate outer timing gear. However, I'm getting this code. It fails the cam adjuster test via vagcom for the intake cam. Says "sys/not ok" the exhaust one tests out ok. Is it the solenoid or the actual adjuster? Something to note, when I did the 12v test to the intake solenoid I couldn't hear any clicking and I even put my ear right on the valve cover you figure you would heard at least something. I have a parts motor which I today, pulled the VVT control unit and hook the 12v to that solenoid and that was clicking. I know either way I have to pull the upper timing cover off to get at everything but I was wondering if anyone else had this issue.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

I was just trying this not long ago. Mine clicked. I think I recall the power source is actually 5 volts. A short hot to 12 wont hurt, but continuous 12 might. I did it while running, so i could hear the idle change, attempting to verify actual advance was taking place. I also read a couple of hots to 12v might free a sticky solenoid. If you have a DVM, you should be able to measure some reasonable resistance (of the solenoid coil itself) across the terminals


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

I did a resistance test and the book calls for 10.0 18.00 Resistance and I was only getting .74 and almost the same for the parts VVT unit I have from another motor. I find it hard to believe both would be bad. I couldn't hear anything when doing the 12v to the solenoid to the one in the car. The ross-tech wiki on this issue points to the N205 valve so maybe I should throw this working one in there and see what happens. The car runs so I don't think the timing is off I was dead on when i timed the cams the arrows on the adj. lined up perfectly on the VVT unit marks.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

My valve cover and vvt cover is off, the trans hit my driveway last night.
I tried to pull the solenoid out of the housing, it turns but doesn't pull out. I suppose I have to remove the control housing? I really need to clean the vvt stuff well. If ya want I can measure the ohms when I get home. Is your DVM on the right range? When solenoids can fail they usually burn open although if they get too hot, the insulation of the coil melts, and it just turns into a big short.

Normally the solenoid metal slug returns by spring, and the coil makes it go the other way. If the slug is stuck in the bore, you will hear nothing, even though the coil is good.


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

During the chain replacement process, I pulled the VVT control unit and put it through a sonic cleaner I also pulled out both plastic pistons in the VVT for lack of better technical term and oiled them up when I put them back in the chambers. The exhaust one works fine in testing via vagcom. I also did have the same code when I first bought the car but it cleared after I scanned it and never came back before I pulled the whole motor and found the bad sprocket. so i'm wondering if the n205 valve was on the fritz to begin with. Let me know what you get for values. The solenoid took some effort to remove from the unit.


----------



## 2003gtivr62.8liter (Sep 1, 2009)

I had the same problem with mine except it was on the exhaust cam. I checked timing and everything was within spec. Only thing I could figure was cam positioning sensor exhaust. Bought new one and been driving her aggressive and after 700 miles no cel. :laugh:


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

I replaced both cam sensors before I went the route of doing the chains. I'll make sure my cam sensors are snugged on good.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

Intake: 8.5-12.5 ohm
Exhaust: 14.3-16.75
Maybe your reading 7.8, what does the meter read with leads shorted?
I was also thinking, why not just hook up the parts vvt solenoid, and leave it hang. Clear the code, if the code changes to a correlation error you know the solenoid is no good...?

My code was on the intake correlation.
Replaced that cam sensor prior to getting into the chains. I read somewhere about a screen that can become plugged. I have yet to see the screen. I was hoping to leave the cam gears on while I do the chains, id rather not keep buying so many new bolts....

Can the solenoid come out without removing the vvt control unit? Is that where the screen is? I suspected the vvt was the culprit for my correlation error. I don't see anything visibly wrong with chains/guides now that its all apart. My motor is a bit crusty, oil varnish wise.

Can you let me know what bolts you actually HAVE to change for this whole timing project?
I was planning on new flywheel bolts and reusing everything else. If I take off any timing gears I guess they would need to be new too?


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

The screen is on the back side of the VVT unit its shaped like the Number "0" when you pull it from the head, be careful cause its easy to lose. Sometimes its stuck to the head when you pull the unit. The correlation error was also on intake for me before I did the chains but that they say is the result of chain stretch and I also had that broken gear. I like your idea of hooking up the parts VVT to the engine and seeing if does the same thing. I was kind of scared to run the car without leaving the solenoids plugged in for fear of the timing going out of wack and causing the piston and valves to meet. I did replace all my sensors except the solenoids before I tore the engine apart. I get what you're saying about not wanting to keep replacing the bolts. You can still have chain stretch even without a broken timing gear like I did. The gears should be fine on the intermediate shaft unless they have teeth missing. I would replace that outer gear though, just for sanity sake since there is an updated version of it. 

Here's the following bolts I replaced and you should always when removed.

- New bolt for the intermediate shaft timing gear.
- Both bolts for the Cam Adjusters to Cams
- Tensioner bolt for the upper timing chain
- I didn't replace the bolts for the timing chain guides I just used Loctite on those and torque to spec. Did the same for my corrado VR6 and they are still holding on 8 years later.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

Did you replace the flywheel bolts? Pressure plate bolts? or any suspension related bolts removed for access?

I think you will be OK with the solenoids unplugged. Didn't hurt me, and I was even actuating them while running with direct voltage.


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

I'll give that a try with the solenoids. As for the fly wheel bolts and crank bolts you should replace them. I did the single mass flywheel conversion kit with new clutch. I have a set of new flywheel bolts I didn't end up using cause they were for the dual mass flywheel kit if you want them let me know they are useless to me.


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

you should probably replace the suspension bolts i'm assuming they are torque to yield as well.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

So it might not click everytime...
See that little nub sticking out:

Apparently oil pressure holds it in (flush), and when activated, it extends. The photo is fully extended.

I am a little worried, I pulled mine out, and i can see it was 'staked' in 3 spots to the control housing. Judging from the way it seems to operate, I *think* it won't matter as the torx screws will hold it. Is this the way yours looked when you disassembled?


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

Yes pretty much I opened mine from the other side of the unit I didn't check position I just lubed them up and put them back in. I'll post some pictures later on I gotta upload them.


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

Ok both adjusters appear to pass the "system ok" check but now my car seems to be misfiring now I don't know what i did but it seems to be running worse now.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

I saw this picture:







[/QUOTE]
In this thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5890626-Good-DIY-write-up-on-24v-timing-chain

See how the long brass assembly is connected to the electrical solenoid?

When I took my solenoid off, only the black electrical piece came off:


It looks like it was "staked" to the long brass piece I had to pry it lightly to remove it.
I read the the valving uses a solenoid restrictor, the little black nub i assume. It pushes out with force when electrified.
So now I am worried i need to check that screen, or that I have ruined the intake solenoid.
I have not removed the control housing cover.

I need to know:
Have I destroyed the control valve?
Can the long brass piece be removed from the front?
Should it have came out along with the black coil part when I pulled out the solenoid?


History:http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6947591-2003-GTI-quot-BDF-quot-MIL-P1340-Cam-Crank-Correlation


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

You're fine I did the same thing when I sonic cleaned the control unit what my problem was that screen part of it was pushed too far in not allow the little piston inside to be pushed by the solenoid cause it was too far in thanks to me prying with the screwdriver I pushed it back the other way and that's how I got the "sys ok" in vagcom.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

So then I tried to get the exhaust solenoid out, it cam apart in 2 pieces. While investigating, I pushed the small button, left inside the housing, and noticed it sprang right back. When I tried this on the intake side, the button got stuck in!
I popped out the valve, disassembled and cleaned it. The inside of the tube was varnished with burned oil. After reassembly, the button pushes in smooth and pops out easily. I staked the solenoid back on, and bench tested with +5 volts and heard a satisfying click each time. I could also see the inside part of the valve slide each time.

I think this was the cause of my initial problem and that's why the vag com actuator test "cured" the initial poor running condition. I figure most people who do the +12 volt trick are in the same boat.

When I compared the new chain to the old, the old one was a couple mm longer.
Everything seems tight and good, waiting for the new IM gear t bolt so I can button up.


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

That's good to hear. Both my solenoids separated at the solenoids themselves. you're fine just as long as those screen chambers don't push so far forward into the VVT unit that they don't make contact via the solenoids. I will report that I drove the car today after taking a step back from it and it seemed to be running better today no heavy sputtering like my last test drive with it and the surging feeling that I was getting when driving it before. It feels like it has power again before I pulled the whole engine to do this project so now i'm less thinking my timing is a half tooth off. I think i'm going to change out the fuel filter for good measure seeing how I assume its the original and it did sit for over a year not running it was sputtering like a car I had before that had gas mixed with water in it same kind of symptoms. I also sprayed starting ether on the intake runners to check for leaks on the new intake manifold gasket with no effect so I can dismiss the intake having any leaks in it. If it still have issues i'll do fuel pressure check since I have an extra fuel line set from my parts 24v i'll make a T fitting to measure pressure and see what i'm getting.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

eurotrashmax said:


> That's good to hear. Both my solenoids separated at the solenoids themselves. you're fine just as long as those screen chambers don't push so far forward into the VVT unit that they don't make contact via the solenoids.


Well I didn't see any sort of backstop for the intake one i fully removed. I re-crimped it as best I could. The exhaust screen chamber was stuck hard, I never removed it, its button seemed free, so I figure good to go. The solenoid travel is quite small. My fingers are crossed.


OT:
My thermostat housing, and crack pipe look fine. Is this a must replace item you think?


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

I replaced mine with a metal crack pipe. I would suggest replacing it since you have the motor out i did have one fail on my corrado and it was a pain to replace. I would just replace the gaskets on the t-stat housing unless the area around the gasket is warped or crack which is typical of the plastic housing to block and the gasket inside the upper timing chain cover too.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

eurotrashmax said:


> I would suggest replacing it since you have the motor out...


Motor is not out, water pump and crack end are opposite end I am working on.



eurotrashmax said:


> so now i'm less thinking my timing is a half tooth off....


How does this happen?
I can lock the cam bar at both 12 and 6 O-clock on the IM gear pointer. I Don't undertstand why some people say it makes a difference. If I were to take that gear off and rotate 180 I will still be able to put the bar in, it will take 2 or 4 crank turns, for 6 or 12 O-clock just like it does now????? Also Bently says either is fine...???


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

my apologies thought you had it out.


----------



## Tiros (Apr 4, 2014)

eurotrashmax said:


> my apologies thought you had it out.


No worries I just wondered if you still thought it was worth doing. I mean all the original parts look good, but if failure is surely gonna happen....

I really don't want to be off half tooth myself, I want to get the bottom of this before I put the tranny back in.

Ahh Post#4:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1264409


----------



## eurotrashmax (May 9, 2006)

My approach is always preventative maintenance. I'm sure you don't want to rack up the costs but after 100k that plastic stuff can start to fail. Do you have the manual for doing the 24v? cause its a little different than that 12v guide you posted If you need the section for doing the chains I can PDF it to you.


----------

