# ARP Flywheel bolt Torque spec



## Aronc (Jan 30, 2006)

Changing the clutch this weekend to a FX400. Purchased ARP's for the flywheel anyone know the torque spec for the bolts. i know the oem spec is 44lb/ft +90* but i dont know if i should follow the same spec.

Also any preference on the thread locking solution i should use on the bolts. I was going to use Red loctite. 

Thanks in advance :thumbup:


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

I believe it's 65 ft/lbs. use red locktite also for peace of mind


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

Everytime I've had my clutch out (persisting issue), I was always told 60 for the flywheel 40 for the pressure plate. I use loctite every time and have never had an issue. In fact, my clutch is out right now and I'm ordering ARP flywheel bolts for when I put it back in.


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## Yosh_Cupra (Jun 28, 2008)

And check the length of the ARPs as they longer than OEM...Trim them down and you wont have the crap that I did...


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

Yosh_Cupra said:


> And check the length of the ARPs as they longer than OEM...Trim them down and you wont have the crap that I did...


 Explain? 

Also, can you provide a link to where you bought yours. I was going to get them from Summit but I don't know the thread pitch and length really.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

There are two different ones depends on supplier. The ones I got from Arnold are shorter and the ones integrated sells are longer. The specs from integrated are 65 for flywheel


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## Aronc (Jan 30, 2006)

i got mine from Integrated. I really hope i dont have to trim them down that would be a waste and potentially ruin the threads.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

ascgti89 said:


> i got mine from Integrated. I really hope i dont have to trim them down that would be a waste and potentially ruin the threads.


 I have the FX400 also using Integrateds flywheel bolts, Haven't ran my car since I put them on (waiting on billet fork to get back) but they seem fine:thumbup:

Let us know if you had to shave them:thumbup:


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## Aronc (Jan 30, 2006)

Updates: Clutch that was in the car was fine, wear wise, but it had a very small amount of some sort of fluid on it. on the pressure plate side. Thinking the input shaft seal on the trans was bad. smelled like gear oil. The back of the flywheel was bone dry as were the bolts when i pulled them out. Rear main looked perfect nice and dry so i ruled it out as being bad. 

Put in the other trans i just recently purchased from a friend of mine with a Quaife LSD and Vap motorsports pinion shaft brace. 

Install went good, The ARP's threaded in perfectly no need to shave them down. Found the paper IE included in the bolt package, and it specified the torque to be 75 ft/lbs with red loctite so i followed that. buttoned it all up and took it for a spin. Clutch is a little grabby but thats to be expected from a 6 puck. Cant complain otherwise no odd noises or anything.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

ascgti89 said:


> Found the paper IE included in the bolt package, and it specified the torque to be 75 ft/lbs with red loctite so i followed that.


 What the **** They keep changing torque specs on there bolts... My sheet said 65 ft/lbs I'm almost positive... Also the bolt that comes with there manual tensioner setup said on there sheet to torque to xx Ft/lbs and now you watch there video and its 10 ft/lbs less:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

One-Eight GTI said:


> What the **** They keep changing torque specs on there bolts... My sheet said 65 ft/lbs I'm almost positive... Also the bolt that comes with there manual tensioner setup said on there sheet to torque to xx Ft/lbs and now you watch there video and its 10 ft/lbs less:banghead::banghead::banghead:


 I was on FFE looking at something and came across the ARP flywheel bolts on there, their torque spec says red loctite, 60ft/lbs, then to 80ft/lbs. 

Seems to be a lot of numbers out there, I've always used 60ft/lbs and not had a problem on non-arp bolts. I figure so long as the torque is 60ft/lbs or above with red loctite they should be fine. Seems to be a pattern.


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

nobody special here. 

a couple yrs ago a couple guys (Andy and BobQ) did a bolt stretch study on the ARP Pro FW bolts we use. and they found that it stretched IIRC .0015 @ just about 101.5 ft lb. i could be wrong on the EXACT length and torque, but i know that was their findings that just over 100 ft/lb is where they started to stretch past the allowed limit/length. and i dont choose to waste my time finding where it was, either. look back 4-5 yrs, hypothetical is Andys SN here. 

that said, i torque mine to 95 ft/lb with red and they will still come loose. have yet to check this 11 bolt FW setup i am doing now. 

cheers, have a nice Sunday. :beer:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Last time I went up to ~70 ft lbs with red loctite. No problems thus far. 

Also check out the Ekagrip friction disk that IE sells. I can't say whether it has helped the bolts from vibrating loose but again no problems yet.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

aww, i keep meaning to get some of these......... what did you think of them?


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

speeding-g6O said:


> nobody special here.
> 
> a couple yrs ago a couple guys (Andy and BobQ) did a bolt stretch study on the ARP Pro FW bolts we use. and they found that it stretched IIRC .0015 @ just about 101.5 ft lb. i could be wrong on the EXACT length and torque, but i know that was their findings that just over 100 ft/lb is where they started to stretch past the allowed limit/length. and i dont choose to waste my time finding where it was, either. look back 4-5 yrs, hypothetical is Andys SN here.
> 
> ...


 Thanks Aaron for your input and its fine that you torque your bolts higher than specified as you put your setup through alot more abuse than I ever will... But it still makes no since to me why they keep changing there damn Torque Specs... Luckily I don't have the engine back in car so I can address the "NEW" Torque spec they want now... I just am not chancing anything again as I blew through 1600 bucks for nothing last summer and only drove 100 miles due to my problem:banghead:


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Last time I went up to ~70 ft lbs with red loctite. No problems thus far.
> 
> Also check out the Ekagrip friction disk that IE sells. I can't say whether it has helped the bolts from vibrating loose but again no problems yet.


 Isn't that supposed to help with keeping the torque in check so the flywheel doesn't move on the crank? Just curious to see what someone else thinks of it or if it's worth it, I was just thinking about them today and whether I should grab one before I put my clutch back in.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

zrau17 said:


> Isn't that supposed to help with keeping the torque in check so the flywheel doesn't move on the crank? Just curious to see what someone else thinks of it or if it's worth it, I was just thinking about them today and whether I should grab one before I put my clutch back in.


 Yes that is what it is supposed to do. I can't say whether it helps keep the bolts from vibrating loose. 

The problem is the holes in the flywheel are slightly bigger than the bolt threads so there is room for the flywheel to move back and forth if the clamping force from the bolts isn't enough to keep it still. 

An extra $60 is enough to keep me from having to pull the trans again.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

my piece of paper stated 67 ft/lbs from ARP.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Just talked to Arnold and he always torques them down to *80 FT/LBS *of torque:thumbup: So mine are coming off and getting retorqued with Red locktite again... Glad I don't have engine in car yet


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

there are different bolts people. and also, another issue could be that aftermarket FWs often times do not follow the same guidelines of the "master bolt" theory, as well. 

one bolt out of 6 is supposed to have a tiny bit larger shoulder on it. these are the Eurospec bolts. 




























me from a different forum on this very subject years ago said:


> the 4cyl ARP on Pagparts have no shoulder. notice the strong shoulder for the VR6. and the VR6 locater bolt looks to me to be the right hand second one down, notice it is a smaller shoulder than the rest.
> 
> here is what i just received. 5 have a strong shoulder, one is smaller shoulder, they say that it is the master bolt. they also DO NOT say ARP on them.
> 
> ...





me again from another site (that is really slow traffic wise but VERY comfortable) said:


> the regular bolts from ARP and the Eurospec and the 034 are 170,000 PSI, while the ARP Pro bolts are 190,000 PSI.
> 
> i already gave shoulder girth dimensions for the ones i got. when i get more i will let you guys know what they are. .





me again of course said:


> so ok, i gotta add the latest in this saga.
> 
> went to put my FX-700 FW on, (Audi B5 A4 longitudinal style with aluminum FW option) and whatdya know, those ****ING 034/Eurospec bolts dont fit. seems my FW is not oversized for the 5 bolts, but the master bolt fit fine in all holes.
> 
> ...


 and they still went someplace, but i rev 9500 and sometimes accidentally 11,495 and 12,011 rpm respectively! 

so, my hope for a solution is this. i had two cranks done the same so i can have both my race motors modded to accept my modded FW. so far it has held. and of course since some people wont understand it, i will just explain it. i tighten and torque the 6 original FW bolts (ARP Pro ones) and after they are done i do the other bolts. i cant tighten 11 of the ARP bolts as a socket will not fit on them, they are too close together. 

FWIW. :snowcool:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

^ Wow!...Gangster:thumbup:


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanks Aaron... My setup is slightly different this tije around as I went with kinda what Eurospec did with there bolts... 

Here is a pic of my 2 Setbolts I got from Arnold and the 4 ARP bolts from Integrated Engineering










Same deal, the 2 setbolts from Arnold are dang near same diameter as the flywheel holes, there only getting torqued to 65 ft lbs, than the other 4 ARP bolts from IE are getting torqued to 80 ft/lbs.... I don't think my setup needs as many bolts as yours does though Aaron:laugh:


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## Aronc (Jan 30, 2006)

Lots of good info in there now. Wish i would have gotten some set bolts, and seen the proper torque spec before i got everything installed. 

Ive got 75 miles on the new clutch and trans and everything working good so far. Really liking the fx400 easier then i expected it to be driving it daily. Hopefully my setup will stay good and tight (knocks on wood). too many people talking about flywheels coming loose has me worried. My setup is very mild compared to the majority of you guys tho so i think i'll be ok at 75 ft/lbs with the arp's.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

ascgti89 said:


> Lots of good info in there now. Wish i would have gotten some set bolts, and seen the proper torque spec before i got everything installed.
> 
> Ive got 75 miles on the new clutch and trans and everything working good so far. Really liking the fx400 easier then i expected it to be driving it daily. Hopefully my setup will stay good and tight (knocks on wood). too many people talking about flywheels coming loose has me worried. My setup is very mild compared to the majority of you guys tho so i think i'll be ok at 75 ft/lbs with the arp's.


 You will be fine at 75:thumbup: Enjoy the fx400 its a damn nice clutch


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## Njegos18t (Jul 31, 2007)

IE bolts $72 pagparts bolts $36 witch do you guy prefer


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## Njegos18t (Jul 31, 2007)

IE bolts $72 pagparts bolts $36 witch do you guys prefer


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

Njegos18t said:


> IE bolts $72 pagparts bolts $36 witch do you guys prefer


 ARP have higher torque capacity


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

One-Eight GTI said:


> Thanks Aaron... My setup is slightly different this tije around as I went with kinda what Eurospec did with there bolts...
> 
> Here is a pic of my 2 Setbolts I got from Arnold and the 4 ARP bolts from Integrated Engineering
> 
> ...


I just got my bolts in from PAG, but my flywheel doesn't have two larger holes for the set bolts...what do I do? Did I just waste my money, I was trying to put this clutch in like 5 minutes ago.

Edit: I just measured them, it's a .15-.20mm difference in width. I was debating just getting it on the drill press and trying to drill two of the holes out slightly, but I have on idea which holes are the ones that should be bigger  Can I use the four ARP's that fit and then two others I have that fit or should I not use two different bolts?

Gah


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

If people have such a problem with the bolts coming loose what would stop someone from drilling a little spot on each bolt and stringing a little safety wire from bolt to bolt? Maybe there's a problem with that because of the high RPM's.

Regardless, this thread is going in my FAQ: Torque Sheet


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

zrau17 said:


> I just got my bolts in from PAG, but my flywheel doesn't have two larger holes for the set bolts...what do I do? Did I just waste my money, I was trying to put this clutch in like 5 minutes ago.
> 
> Edit: I just measured them, it's a .15-.20mm difference in width. I was debating just getting it on the drill press and trying to drill two of the holes out slightly, but I have on idea which holes are the ones that should be bigger  Can I use the four ARP's that fit and then two others I have that fit or should I not use two different bolts?
> 
> Gah



Not sure it matters which two are larger, just make them opposite each other like the picture above. The thing that would bother me, if you remove some weight from the FW will it throw it out of balance a tad bit. That's also assuming you had your rotating assembly balanced.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

18T_BT said:


> Not sure it matters which two are larger, just make them opposite each other like the picture above. The thing that would bother me, if you remove some weight from the FW will it throw it out of balance a tad bit. That's also assuming you had your rotating assembly balanced.


I agree doesn't matter which holes to go through as long as there opposite eachother.... 18T_BT if he removes a little from the flywheel to get the setbolts in there what little material he removes is pretty much regained by the setbolt shank so its probably a wash....

I never had to drill anything out as my clutchmasters flywheel had already big enough holes, in fact even my setbolts have ever so slight movement in the holes


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

groggory said:


> If people have such a problem with the bolts coming loose what would stop someone from drilling a little spot on each bolt and stringing a little safety wire from bolt to bolt? Maybe there's a problem with that because of the high RPM's.
> 
> Regardless, this thread is going in my FAQ: Torque Sheet


The bolts come loose because the flywheel is slipping on the back of the crank, causing fretting fatigue and wear... The loose bolts are just a symptom- if you safety wire them, they will still be in place, albeit loose, right up until your flywheel tears the hell out of the back of your crank and starts making enough noise that you pull it down and check it.


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> The bolts come loose because the flywheel is slipping on the back of the crank, causing fretting fatigue and wear... The loose bolts are just a symptom- if you safety wire them, they will still be in place, albeit loose, right up until your flywheel tears the hell out of the back of your crank and starts making enough noise that you pull it down and check it.


Is the ekagrip friction disc supposed to prevent this from happening?


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

formerly silveratljetta said:


> Is the ekagrip friction disc supposed to prevent this from happening?


It definitely help. But High RPMs, Big HP, AWD and 6,000 rpm Drag launches on slicks will eventually work just about any flywheel loose..... as Aaron can attest to.

This doesn't help with a regular FW change, but if you are making some serious HP and Drag Racing, I would personally take the Crank and FW to a Machine shop and drill them to accept two or three high strength, close interference fit, solid locating dowels. That does away with all the Master bolt nonsense ( which do not have enough engagement length for competition ) and should help reduce fretting. 

But when you're making close to 900HP like Aaron, checking flywheel bolt torque becomes a regular maintenance item. The shock loads and engine harmonics are what causes the bolt loosening, and it's a tough nut to crack. Just my .02c :beer:


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Just a thought...but I wonder what TF Dragster engines have for locating Flywheels. I'm, thinking that they must have some sort of Dog spline engagement system machined into the Crank and FW to prevent FW movement. There is no way that they could do it only with bolt pressure. 

Might be worth looking into for a serious effort like Aaron's.


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## Njegos18t (Jul 31, 2007)

i found this on some german website,looks like this guy had enough with his 16v flywheel falling off:laugh::laugh:


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## speeding-g6O (Nov 22, 2011)

yep that is my next step. TIG tacks on the bolt/FW after torque if it happens again. so i can still remove them.


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

What about find some bolts that have a hex head and doing something like a stage 8 bolt? You could slide the little triangle locking thing over the bolt, and tack weld the end of the tab to the flywheel. I guess that way you're not ruining bolts every time and upon removal you're not grinding into the surface of the flywheel so close to the bolt holes.

Just a thought.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Chickenman35 said:


> Just a thought...but I wonder what TF Dragster engines have for locating Flywheels. I'm, thinking that they must have some sort of Dog spline engagement system machined into the Crank and FW to prevent FW movement. There is no way that they could do it only with bolt pressure.
> 
> Might be worth looking into for a serious effort like Aaron's.


 What about dowel pin + heavy duty bolts. 

Basically like Aaron's 11 bolt setup, but instead of more bolts, some high strength dowel pins instead.


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

groggory said:


> What about dowel pin + heavy duty bolts.
> 
> Basically like Aaron's 11 bolt setup, but instead of more bolts, some high strength dowel pins instead.


 
Like mine


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

That's hawt


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

Damn! :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

The dowels are made of tool steel and are 10mm thick 

I also did the ARP's to 60 then to 80ft/lbs


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> The dowels are made of tool steel and are 10mm thick
> 
> I also did the ARP's to 60 then to 80ft/lbs


 Yep.. that's the way to do it :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> Yep.. that's the way to do it :thumbup:


 Simple if you have the crank & flywheel out of the engine. 

Any machine shop will be able to do it for a small price


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

Anyone done the same modification as me ??


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

I am considering the dowel pin setup as well, I don't spouse you have run the setup enough to give an opinion on how well it held up? :thumbup:


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## formerly silveratljetta (Feb 6, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Like mine


That is awesome:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

Done it to other engines but this is my first 20v so i have yet to see how it holds up


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## Audi2ptzero (May 28, 2003)

Been running ARP bolts in my 10 second drag B5 A4 for a few years, torqued to 45, 65 and then 85 ft lbs using loctite. Haven't had any problems with it since and that is with the ARP bolts that don't have a shoulder. We started doing it to 85 ft lbs on the ARP and the 10.9 bolts because at 65-75 lbs they were coming loose.


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## scirocconaut (Oct 7, 2011)

Good info here, how are those machine tool dowels holding up?


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## David_Tedder (Oct 24, 2005)

I wish I had read this before installing my arp bolts, go to crank the engine over and just a big clunk, 3 hours later trannys back out and realizing the bolts were too long  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

scirocconaut said:


> Good info here, how are those machine tool dowels holding up?


No issues at all


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

FAQ'd under 'flywheel' and added to the torque spec thread.


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## scirocconaut (Oct 7, 2011)

How did you install those dowels? Drill straight in
Then drill from sides to slide a pin into the dowels? 
I'm going to upgrade my clutch later 
So this will be done when I do that.

Dowels are actually a awesome idea 
Makes putting the flywheel back on easy


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## [email protected] (Dec 18, 2009)

As you said but the dowels in the crank were a press fit with some bearing fix loctight on them and just a normal fit to flywheel. 

Engine builders have been doing this for years.


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## Njegos18t (Jul 31, 2007)

Bumping this old thread back. I recently bought some arp flywheel bolts ARP 254-2901 I found a thread where issam abed replied that this is the right part # for the Vw 4cy motors. I got my flywheel yesturday and went to put it in but I noticed something is not adding up, the arp bolts are almost 2mm shorter than the stock bolt. Here are some pictures.


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## Njegos18t (Jul 31, 2007)

The flywheel is a spec 16.5 lbs steel from fourseasontuning.com


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## Audi2ptzero (May 28, 2003)

Njegos18t said:


> Bumping this old thread back. I recently bought some arp flywheel bolts ARP 254-2901 I found a thread where issam abed replied that this is the right part # for the Vw 4cy motors. I got my flywheel yesturday and went to put it in but I noticed something is not adding up, the arp bolts are almost 2mm shorter than the stock bolt. Here are some pictures.


You can use the ARP 254-2901 but they are only 20.32mm under the head, I have used those for years and still have them in my car without any issues. If you want an ARP bolt that is slightly longer then you want 254-2801 which is 25.40mm length under the head and have a shoulder just under head, this has the same 16mm 12 point head. Another choose is 156-2801 which is 24.8mm length, it also has a shoulder but has a 19mm 12 point head. All of these will work on the 1.8t/2.0t cars using an aftermarket single mass flywheel. The 10.9 flywheel bolt that we tend to use for aftermarket flywheels is 25mm in length, so as you can see both of the other ARP bolts I listed above will work.












In order left to right, 10.9 25mm bolt, ARP 254-2801 and ARP 156-2801.


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## Njegos18t (Jul 31, 2007)

Thx for all the info


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