# HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

PLEASE NOTE THE DATE ON THIS POST...THE PROBLEM HAS BEEN SOLVED

'95 Golf III 8v 123000 Miles
To date the following has been done:
Clean TB
Clean MAF
Clean High Pressure Oil Switch
Clean Low Pressure Oil Switch
Clean IAC
Replaced Ignition Coil Ground
Cleaned Injectors
Fuel Filter
Wires (14K)
Cap
Rotor
O2 Sensor
Throttle Position Sensor
Fuel Pump
Injector O-Rings
OEM Bosch Silver Plugs
Cleaned EGR and EGR Probe Sensor
Ran a MAF from a perfectly running car, and problems still persist
ECU Power Relay
FPR Vac Line
EGR Vac Line
FPR
Fuel Pump Relay
Load Reduction Relay
Ignition Switch
Suggestions:
Ignition Coil
ECU
Engine Speed Sensor
Cam Position Sensor
ICM
[Modified by Pagano, 10:52 PM 8-29-2002]


_Modified by Pagano at 3:42 PM 4-7-2004_


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## VadGTI (Feb 24, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I have the same bucking problem and the rough idle. My bucking starts after sitting in rush-hour traffic. Also, sometimes my RPM's climb up to 2000 and sit there until I put it into gear. This may be somehow related... TTT


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## sbiggi (Jan 15, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (VadGTI)*

have you checked the timing? when my timing was off, if you floored it under 2000 rpm it looked/felt like someone was learning stickshift...


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (sbiggi)*

Timing was last done about 35K ago


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (sbiggi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]have you checked the timing? when my timing was off, if you floored it under 2000 rpm it looked/felt like someone was learning stickshift...[HR][/HR]​thats EXACTLY what it feels like


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well...I can now only think of TWO things this will relate two...and hopefully I can rule out one of these tonight, or tomorrow morning...
FPR 
ECU
How can I properly diagnose my ECU?? And how much should I expect to pay for a new one?
As for the FPR, a buddy of mine has a spare so I'm hoping to borrow it and run with it a few days to see if any difference is to be found.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Welp....I got ahold of another FPR off my buddy's Jetta....
It's not the FPR








Now, the only thing I can think it to be would be the ECU. I hope to be able to scan this on monday, but dont know if I'll be able to do that. 
I'm going to disconnect and take it apart and try to just see if I can eyeball any problems (condensation, burnt areas or anything). 
ANY input is greatly appreciated.....


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Thats a tough one. Gremlins maybe? Are the plugs gapped right? (I know you probably checked but its the easy stuff sometimes) Have you run a bottle of injector cleaner through it? Might not hurt, maybe the injectors aren't squirting properly at low RPM? Are the connectors on well? Other than that, check and see if its throwing any codes. Good luck. I'm out of ideas. 
-edit- The only other thing it might be is (I dread to say it) is a slight crack in the block. My buddies 99 Dodge Dakota was doing the exact same thing and just for kicks, he pulled the manifold and there was a line of white stuff (coolant) leaking through the block. That thing promptly went in!


[Modified by Clean97GTi, 10:52 PM 4-19-2002]


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Clean97GTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Thats a tough one. Gremlins maybe? Are the plugs gapped right? (I know you probably checked but its the easy stuff sometimes) Have you run a bottle of injector cleaner through it? Might not hurt, maybe the injectors aren't squirting properly at low RPM? Are the connectors on well? Other than that, check and see if its throwing any codes. Good luck. I'm out of ideas. 
-edit- The only other thing it might be is (I dread to say it) is a slight crack in the block. My buddies 99 Dodge Dakota was doing the exact same thing and just for kicks, he pulled the manifold and there was a line of white stuff (coolant) leaking through the block. That thing promptly went in!

[Modified by Clean97GTi, 10:52 PM 4-19-2002][HR][/HR]​Nahhh....my coolant level hasn't budged....phew...
Bosche +4 - Pregapped based on the car
I'll run a bottle of injector cleaner through the system...right now it's 93 Sunoco straight up. Tomorrow, the ECU comes out and gets inspected and cleaned and some voodoo worshiping hoping it will work. 
edit- car has 114500 miles on it...last time I ran a 'cleaner' was at 103100 and that was the STP Silver Bottle (Complete Fuel System Cleaner)


[Modified by Pagano, 12:55 AM 4-20-2002]


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Check your idle control valve. Theres a 90% that is your problem. If you plug it into a VAG com, it will say idle adaptation set at limit...which means the valve is bad. I had this happen to me a year ago.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

ICV from my understanding will cause the idle to flex greatly, my idle is near perfect


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Popped out the ECU today, and it looked brand new inside...not a single mark on it, no moisture, anything....
Set it all back up, and it ran the exact same...bucking in first few gears below 2000, AND....the entire night, it didn't happen once...but as soon as I got home, idle dropped below 800 again, which frankly, it hasn't done since the new Fuel Pump was put in nearly a week ago.


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

What kinda shape is the clutch in? Maybe its not lined up perfectly. Check the mounts for motor and tranny. Maybe the flywheel needs to be resurfaced. Oh, you're running Bosch plugs. Thats your problem, Bosch plugs are the devil. They will make your blinker fluid low and wreak havoc on you muffler bearings. They really are hard on the piston return springs.







Seriously, I had a problem with Bosch plugs but it was at high RPMs. My NGK's have been great ever since.


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

It dosen't always happen. When it happened to me...it happened erratically. The best way to find out is to plug it into a VAG com. It will eliminate alot of the guessing.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

quote:[HR][/HR]It dosen't always happen. When it happened to me...it happened erratically. The best way to find out is to plug it into a VAG com. It will eliminate alot of the guessing. [HR][/HR]​YEP! it doesn't always do that bucking, and I cannot reproduce it on demand...it just happens...I hope to scan very soon


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I posted an identical problem a week or so ago, then again yesterday in the G/J III forum...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=319986 
Read that, Pagano, and see if you can get any useful ideas from my experience.
I'm shopping right now for plugs and wires, hoping some fresh wires or some plugs that AREN'T Bosch Platinums will work for me.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

thats the EXACT problem
Cant Reproduce It Consistantly to say, "This is how you do it"
Does it a lot once car is warmed up (drive on highway for 25-30 mins, get off...come to a stop and when you start going it does it)
And it's just a bad feeling like:
Learning to Drive Stick
Stumbling
Engine Having a Convulsion
Studdering
AND No CEL!

Let me know if plugs are your problem...I'm going to call German Auto Parts tomorrow and order a set of OEM plugs for the ABA
I have +4 now with like 14K on them


[Modified by Pagano, 10:37 PM 4-21-2002]


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## GtiGyver (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

I would check the IAC, as was said earlier since it is the only component which directly affects you idle. To clean it, remove it from your intake completely and spray an entire can of TB cleaner inside and then shake it, empty it and let it dry. Also, you might consider that your MAF sensor is not dirty but rather defective thus giving the ECU incorrect engine load data.


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

And, actually, i'd love more than anything to see a definitive answer to this problem. It seems to be affecting more than a few of us, so i know i'm not crazy.
It's the same thing for me, as well. It's very random when it decides to do it. It's always during accelleration from low rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear, but that's the only common thread. It doesn't always happen during these conditions, and it doesn't even happen when i let off and get back on. I can't make it happen for the life of me, especially when another person is around.
But mine won't throw a fault code. I scan my ECU all the time, and new codes at all. I'm gonna call TT and see if they have heard about this problem with their chips.
I hope we get this fixed...


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (gti_8v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I would check the IAC, as was said earlier since it is the only component which directly affects you idle. To clean it, remove it from your intake completely and spray an entire can of TB cleaner inside and then shake it, empty it and let it dry. Also, you might consider that your MAF sensor is not dirty but rather defective thus giving the ECU incorrect engine load data.[HR][/HR]​I have half a can....I'll do this tomorrow and let you guys know whats up....
So far...I have the following to check now:
IAC
Plugs
MAF
ECU
And I'm banking on them in that order...the MAF I may be able to borrow someone elses for a few days and run with it to see if there is a difference to diagnose that....
edit- Firestarter....it definatly sounds like the same problem....1-3rd gear, most noticable in 2nd...below 2K, COMPLETELY random...I've tried a bunch of things to reproduce it but can't do it at all...and my idle is ishy....it cant be your TT chip cause I got a P-Chip


[Modified by Pagano, 10:48 PM 4-21-2002]


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I dont' think it's anything about Idle Control...my idle is rock solid, and it appears that Pagano's is too. This is, for me at least, above 2000 rpm, so well out of idle territory.
And to the poster above who suggested checking the timing....are you suggesting ignition timing or valve timing?


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I dont' think it's anything about Idle Control...my idle is rock solid, and it appears that Pagano's is too. This is, for me at least, above 2000 rpm, so well out of idle territory.
And to the poster above who suggested checking the timing....are you suggesting ignition timing or valve timing?
[HR][/HR]​my idle started crapping out on me again though, dropping below the 800 mark from its normal 950ish just last night, and feeling all rough again


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## GtiGyver (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

check also for leaks in your intake boot or for vaccum leaks.


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## sporter (Feb 5, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (gti_8v)*

i have this exact problem. However if I disconnect the MAF the car runs better.
mines a turbo running atp chip and 27# injectors so we are kinda comparing apples to oranges but here's what I found:
didn't change with the new ECU
didnt change with new MAF
didnt change with new reference sensor
all other components on the car are brand new, except for the TB. We did switch out the TB at one point, but it was during the diagnosis of a different problem so I don't recall if it affected to "bogging" problem.
we still havent found a reason. However my major problem is that the car looses complete power at approx. 5k RPMs. No one can figure it out. not like it dogs out cause it's leaning, just all of a sudden it instantaneously feels like its going back to idle. and this ONLY happens with WOT. partial throttle and the problem goes away. 
has anyone ever had symptoms like this? we've tried everything.


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## 2L/NGIN (Jul 10, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I've had a similar problem in the 2000 - 3300 range, I can't chase it down because the ECU is not giving any codes. I've got 186,000 kms on a '99 A3 its been doing it since it was fresh off the lot, not as noticable being new though. I do wring it out a lot, but I've put my fare share into it. I have changed the distributeer, the wires, plugs are usually +4's changed regulally, the bit of performance cat-back, intake. I've posted before about this but no one has any insight so far. I'm beginning to think its the vacuum lines from behind the throttle body going to the regulator for the charcoal canister and the leak detection pump, or the coil ("final stage voltage deal"; quote from being drunk with Bentley).


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (2L/NGIN)*

There was a guy with the same problem who posted this awhile back. His problem was the same, bucking at a certain speed. His solution was simple and seemed to cure the problem:
He replaced the fuel injector O-Rings and the problem never came back. I went and bought the parts, apparently it's a total 'do it yourself' kind of fix, very easy, but I have yet to try it.
All you would need is the injector O-rings (they come with a bunch of other ones that you won't need) and a gasket for the manifold if you want to do it right, pretty cheap.
Heck, you've tried everything else, give this a shot.
One more thing...my car used to do this all the time then it died and I had the engine speed sensor replaced. Now it doesn't do it ever, so maybe it related. The engine speed sensor is down near the front of the car, just to the right of the front lower engine mount. There are two wires there, one of which is the speed sensor. It's a PITA to get at though cause you need to remove the front mount. I didn't do it myself, but spitpilot did, you can ask him if you want more info on that part. The cable is $128.00 CDN, not sure what it is U.S., maybe about $80 U.S. or so.
Hope this helps!


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

Check your plugs that might be the Problem I had a Simular problem about a year ago. Found out one of the Spark Plugs (Plat +4's) the thread was a little too small on one of the plugs?? My Car was bucking like a horse.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

Guys, thanks for all the input!!! I'm going to take these one at a time and see what happens...
I'm still shady on the plugs....14K...and they ran great untill reciently? plus I heard that the +4's are the best for ABA








IAC
Plugs
MAF (swap with a 'working one' for a few days)
Fuel Injector O-Rings
ECU

edit - once I pull the injectors, what can I clean them with???


[Modified by Pagano, 11:43 AM 4-22-2002]


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Guys, thanks for all the input!!! I'm going to take these one at a time and see what happens...
I'm still shady on the plugs....14K...and they ran great untill reciently? plus I heard that the +4's are the best for ABA








IAC
Plugs
MAF (swap with a 'working one' for a few days)
Fuel Injector O-Rings
ECU

edit - once I pull the injectors, what can I clean them with???

[Modified by Pagano, 11:43 AM 4-22-2002][HR][/HR]​Has it been raining or Damp in your area lately that's what set mine off 
I swear I had trhe exact symptoms
I bet its the Plugs Check to see if they are in tightly.


[Modified by PrupleGTI, 5:39 PM 4-22-2002]


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

I doubt it's the plugs if they were installed correctly. I've got Plat +4's and have had NO issues whatsoever.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I doubt it's the plugs if they were installed correctly. I've got Plat +4's and have had NO issues whatsoever.[HR][/HR]​Thats what I'm saying....I checked the plugs like 2 days after the idle issue started a month or so back, and they looked clean (1 & 4). As I've heard, +4 rock in 2.0 but NGK in the VR6.
I'm leaning heavy on a f'ed up MAF right now, simply for one reason....when I cleaned my TB, some TB cleaner went down my intake tube, and was dripping from my filter element. Thats when I cleaned the MAF with electronics cleaner.
Other then that...the IAC gets cleaned tonight, MAF test hopefully tomorrow, and then next is O-Rings on Injectors + Injector cleaning....
What is the best way to clean them outside the engine?


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I dont' think it's anything about Idle Control...my idle is rock solid, and it appears that Pagano's is too. This is, for me at least, above 2000 rpm, so well out of idle territory.
And to the poster above who suggested checking the timing....are you suggesting ignition timing or valve timing?
[HR][/HR]​
You don't have an idle air control. Its only on 95 and older.


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## chillysalsa (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I was suffering from the same problem last summer, but it went away all winter. It has to be over 20ºC for mine to act up. It started doing it again last week (there was a 'heat wave' for us here) and I discovered 2 of my plug wires were bad. 
I'm really hoping that was it, but I won't be sure till the weather warms up.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

Ok Gang: 
Cleaned the IAC tonight with Throttle Body Cleaner...filled it 5 times swirling it around
first two times black goo poured out
3rd time a ball of ish came out
4th time more grayish colored liquid
5th time...clear liquid 
Hooked it all back up, and took it for 15 mile test drive of mountain/highway/city driving...
MUCH smoother, but it did it once like 2 times in 1st gear. For 15 miles...thats not bad :thumbsup:
Downside? 
It still did it
Idle is still ishy


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

My car would buck only when the engine was nice and warmed up. The car would idle erratically between 1500 and 2000...then it would go away for a bit then come back. My car would idle fine...but when the bucking occurs it would idle high then low. My moneys on the IAC.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

quote:[HR][/HR]My car would buck only when the engine was nice and warmed up. The car would idle erratically between 1500 and 2000...then it would go away for a bit then come back. My car would idle fine...but when the bucking occurs it would idle high then low. My moneys on the IAC. [HR][/HR]​Yeah...high idle flex is IAC...mine is just bogging...it never gets above 1000, normal is 950...it has dropped into the 7's at one point
Never stalls on me...and I got that bucking crap goin for me
Next is MAF swap and see if the problem changes hands....then plugs


[Modified by Pagano, 9:43 PM 4-22-2002]


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Let us know what happens!


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

I probally will not be able to swap MAF for a few days http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
I'm going to pick up another can of TB cleaner tonight, further clean out the IAC, and do the TB again. I also want to take off that "Silencer" between the IAC and intake manifold and just run a tube straight from the manifold to the IAC.
I'll run that tonight, and tomorrow...see if any difference is found...the IAC DOES make it feel much smoother....so I'm hopeing just a more thorough cleaning is the problem...if not, I should have the MAF swap ready, then I pick up some OEM plugs...then injector cleaning + O-Rings...


[Modified by Pagano, 11:25 AM 4-23-2002]


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

...saga continues....
seeing that this is an unpredictable problem I was completely wrong...it's still bucking, though it is smoother when accelerating and it's not bucking!! hehehe...
Idle still very ishy
Bucking still ishy
Tonight I clean the TB completely out, along with the IAC again. THEN...the latest idea...EGR....looked mighty funky when I pulled my intake manifold to get at my Valve Cover Gasket. 
Quick question...how in the hell do you remove the EGR?! I undid the 19mm nut holding it to the copper tubing the other day, tugged, and it didn't budge...is there something I'm missing here?


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## jettaboy2001 (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

i am having the same thing with my jetta. i got it scaned on monday i was told it was my throttle position sensor and o2 sensor heater circuit malfunction


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (jettaboy2001)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i am having the same thing with my jetta. i got it scaned on monday i was told it was my throttle position sensor and o2 sensor heater circuit malfunction







[HR][/HR]​Read my first post...I already replaced the O2 sensor and TPS








moving right along....
New TB Gasket went in today as well as a thorough cleaning of the TB, not a single spec of black/brown left inside of it, all nice and shiny...
Flushed the IAC again today
Removed the 'black box' resonator between Manifold and IAC.
survey says? 
Idle is ishy
Bucking continues
I sat there in REL mode watching the digi tach (#7) the idle did not ONCE even out, it sat there and moved from like 970 - 925 and anywhere in between...then every once in a while...WHOMP...drops to like 820...stutters, then goes back to the 970-925 swing of things....
The NEW list reads:
EGR Cleaning (HOW DO I REMOVE THIS?!)
Ground Wire Going to Rear of Valve Cover
Ignition Coil
ICM
Plugs
MAF
Fuel Injector O-Rings
ECU
Keepin ya'll posted...and believe me, when I DO find the problem...I will post it ASAP...
I feel excited, yet upset...a problem that no one can solve, yet it's a problem with my car
















[Modified by Pagano, 9:53 PM 4-23-2002]


[Modified by Pagano, 11:07 PM 4-23-2002]


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

OOOOOOOOOOOOO
Whilst flippin through the bentley....
I found out that my car can display DTC codes w/o a VAG tool!!! This gets done first thing when I get home tomorrow night!


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

You mentioned ground wire...
That's actually a good idea. While conversing about it with my dad, he said the first diagnostic step in anything like this is to disconnect, clean, and reconnect all the engine compartment ground points. Steel wool is supposed to be the material of choice.
I'm gonna do this soon...just to see what happens. From the sounds of our problems, it almost has to be electrical, based on its intermittence. Anything else, air or fuel, would be more predictable and persistent, i would think.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

quote:[HR][/HR]You mentioned ground wire...
That's actually a good idea. While conversing about it with my dad, he said the first diagnostic step in anything like this is to disconnect, clean, and reconnect all the engine compartment ground points. Steel wool is supposed to be the material of choice.
I'm gonna do this soon...just to see what happens. From the sounds of our problems, it almost has to be electrical, based on its intermittence. Anything else, air or fuel, would be more predictable and persistent, i would think.
[HR][/HR]​must-get-sleep-last-vortex-post
Yep, I ran out there tonight in the dark and sprayed down the engine compartment with a mist of water...not a single arc, or spark...so I'm going to clean that connection at lunchtime with steel wool...then see if it's any better throughout my day.
Aside from that, I will be testing the ignition coil tomorrow night...and MAF Voltage/resistance, seeing as how I cant swap MAF till later this week...
Keepin ya'll posted http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
edit- I think I'm leaning towards electrical...as we had a HUGE storm a few days back where at times I was treading through 6" or more of moving water...and throughout all that, the car seemed to run the ishyist....
water + electronics = Please for the love of jesus dont be the ECU


[Modified by Pagano, 11:09 PM 4-23-2002]


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
water + electronics = Please for the love of jesus dont be the ECU[HR][/HR]​Yeah man...i'm thinking the same thing...i'm about to sacrifice a goat to the VW gods, so that my ECU and other bazillion-dollar parts will be spared.


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## mobiless2 (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

had same problem about a year ago replaced o-rings on injectors problem solved cost me about $8.00 in parts from vw. good luck!..


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (mobiless2)*

Called German auto today to place an order consisting of:
OEM Plugs (Silver Bosch)
Injector Kit with 2 - Rings per injector, (Rail/Manifold)
Gasket set for spacer leading to EGR
I cleaned up the ground wire going from the ignition coil to the block. 
Still idle's like crap
Still bucks like a mofo....
Tonight:
Voltage check on MAF and Ignition Coil...


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Daily Update:
Checked Voltage going to MAF:
11.93V
Voltage to Ignition Coil:
11.72V
Resistance to Injector 1 & 4 (2 & 3 are a bastard as you know)
both: 16.2
...GAP Said I should recieve my parts on Friday as I'm in NJ and they ship from NY. Friday I will be pulling my EGR and cleaning that sucker out... But once again I ask..
How in the hell do I remove the EGR? I tugged on it after removing the 19mm nut, and the (2) 5mm hex bolts and it wouldn't budge!
The reason I want to clean my EGR is because of the amount of carbon build-up in the little spacer pleneum between the intake manifold and EGR.


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## sporter (Feb 5, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

bump


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (sporter)*

quote:[HR][/HR]bump[HR][/HR]​








OK...tomorrow: Clean EGR, pray UPS Does an early drop off so I can replace O-Rings, and Plugs....
Lemme ask ya this:
My car is a '95...it has 115K on it.....It is running on the original OEM VW Battery. My car, the past 2 or 3 days now, has needed some extra time in turning the engine over...and tonight I turned it over after cranking for a lot longer then normal...and it stalled after about 3 seconds of idle...turned it again and it fired up....
Whats the chances that my battery is causing all this trouble? I plan on testing the voltage tomorrow.


----------



## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

You've got your factory battery 7 years down the road? What are you thinkin, I wouldn't trust one past 4 winters for sure. You need to have that puppy load checked, just volts don't tell the story, its what does it put out under load! I don't think it would cause the bucking prob, but could die at any moment since its well out the bell curve in battery life!


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (spitpilot)*

I've always figured it's cranked the car with ease so far, has yet to cause any problems, and in addition to it's regular task, has no problem carrying a current to a 350watt amp via 4AWG....
damn load tests... I assume I can't do this with a regular voltmeter? or can I?
edit - it also shows no signs of corrosian (sp), leaking, or otherwise...about 2 months ago I cleaned the terminals and connections with steel wool just for good measure.


[Modified by Pagano, 10:38 PM 4-25-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I just got back from Sears, and got a load test done.
486 CCA
~12.5V


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Just cleaned out the EGR (might I add an amazing amount of ish came out of it). Popped it in, fired it up and the idle was a hair smoother, but it still dropped to 851 at it's lowest point (keep in mind my normal is ~950).
Have yet to put it on the road, I figure as erratic as the bucking is, it is due to happen when I go out tonight. So I'll post a note late tonight, or tomorrow letting you know whats up. 


[Modified by Pagano, 6:21 PM 4-26-2002]


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## 2008cc (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I have a 86 GTI that I plunked a complete 95 2.0 Crossflow into....55k on it. I have had a problem with the car running very rich at startup, idleing very erratic, and sputtering at various rpms. I replaced, the ECU (AA), MAF, FPR, Plugs, Wires, TB, ISV, Coil , Dist, Cap, Rotor, Temp sensors, and brand new oxegen sensor all with no avail. The funny thing was that when the oxy sensor was unpluged, the car idled rough but didnt have a hesitation upon acceleration. With the oxy sensor connected, it idled smooth but had a wicked hesitation and sputtered.
The car was running so poorly that I quit driving it all together, and started gathering everything for a VR6 conversion. 
The other day I decided to try another MAF sensor while i was at the local vw yard...............problem completely gone. Runs like it is brand new. Cranks on the first try. No smoke on startup. No Codes. No hesitations.
I cant say it will fix your problem, but I finally fixed mine. BTW....still doing the vr6......


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (2008cc)*

MAF is still on my list even though the Voltage is correct.
I have a bigger problem though...I hit a bump tonight that completely f'ed up my gauge cluster...
No Speed
Milage Doesn't Move
No Gas Reading
No Lights
The only working things are:
Clock
Temp
Tach


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

OK...Gauge fixed..connection in the back came loose...all is well
I THINK the bucking stopped...at least it has yet to do it lately








Idle has definatly calmed down....
I'm thinking I need a new battery (486CCA as I recall on the battery), I also want to get a load test on my alternater


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

OK
I think my bucking problem has been located to the EGR Valve....so I'm goin to clean that again, and pop it back in....the bucking has nearly stopped...very rare now
the idle is still a hair ishy...it only drops like once...like what seems every 5 minutes...
the starting thing (car wont turn over, or it turns over, immediatly dies...wait a sec, turn it again fires right up) - I think thats the battery...486CCA...the guy at sears said it's not horribly low...but I should replace it soon...so I'm looking into an Optima red Top


----------



## vento93 (Sep 6, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

k I have the same problem with my 93 jetta, the problem came after the install of the cam. so obviously i assume its just the cam and it will go away after i install a chip. well it did go away for awhile after the chip then it cam back after a couple thous miles. so i figured its either with the fuel, intake or plugs. had brand new plugs and wires in there so i new that was not it. put new fuel filter in and during the port and polish cleaned and tested the fuel rail..still idealed off. so then i cleaned my air filter and just my some weird chance blew a little air into the intake without the filter on..........my engine almost completly died in idle. so i figure it's the MAF sensor i havent replaced it yet but someday will i just clean it now and then and the rough idle goes away for a little bit then comes back. I truly think that thats your problem. 
oh yeh the original vw battery is the shheeeattt almost ten years old and i still havent replaced it... car starts up every time no problem


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vento93)*

OK Gang:
I'm convinced the problem is my EGR Valve...the car has yet to have that bucking problem occur since I cleaned it out, i have felt little tremours through the gas pedal...but the passangers have felt nothing..
The idle is way smoother and is now more of a slight rare lump then a bogging.
Battery will be getting replaced shortly with an Optima RedTop as the car is having some issues starting in the morning.


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Can you summarize what you've done so far?
Also, where is the EGR valve? Don't have my Bentley here at work, LOL.
I should probably clean mine out, since it's never been done...


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Can you summarize what you've done so far?
Also, where is the EGR valve? Don't have my Bentley here at work, LOL.
I should probably clean mine out, since it's never been done...[HR][/HR]​I've been updating my first post to reflect everything I have done so far. The EGR (Not shown true location in Benley anyway), is found behind/under the intake manifold. It connects via two 5mm hex nuts to the intake manifold, and a 19mm nipple to a copper tube which leads to the downpipe. This is OBD1 only. 
I will be cleaning it a second time (replacing possibly), putting in the new injector O-Rings, and new plugs


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

:fist in the air:








Tonight:
Removed EGR Sensor and cleaned that
Cleaned the EGR valve...again
OEM Bosch Silver Plugs
New Injector O-Rings

Hooked it all back up, and fired it....
The idle did not flex more then ~30RPM!!!!!!!!!!! This was for about 5 minutes!!! I'm feeling real good right now, I will have it on the road tomorrow morning and let you guys know whats up!!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

after one day of travel....I'd like to report the following:
The car appears to of stopped bucking (has yet to do it so far) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
After driving around for about 20 minutes, I pulled into my driveway...and the idle dipped again!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
List: 
Ignition Coil (28a-4)
ICM
MAF
ECU
Also, the car is having trouble starting, like you crank it, and as soon as it starts, it dies...and twice (3 times?) I sat there cranking and it didn't turn over...like cranking for over 5 seconds...gave up, wait like a second, turn the key again and it fires right up.
Optima Orange Top should be in the car by next week.


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

If it's stopped bucking, but still has an erratic idle, you may have two problems that you're trying to solve simultaneously. Seems like you may have the bucking solved, and now it's down to the idle.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

quote:[HR][/HR]If it's stopped bucking, but still has an erratic idle, you may have two problems that you're trying to solve simultaneously. Seems like you may have the bucking solved, and now it's down to the idle.[HR][/HR]​Yep....at least I'd like to hope so as I really...really dont want that bucking to come back....
As for the idle:
It seems to only drop once the car has been driven for a while (warmed up).
It also seems to do it less or almost stop if the car HAS been driven for a while, but it sitting at a standstill with the hood open for quite some time. 
This is leading me to believe that the MAF is faulty. I need to acquire a second one and test it out.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Alas!! My worst fear has returned.....the bucking.
I was in denial for two days on this, but I'm convinced it's back! 
However, the good news is that I can control it. It seems that I can do it in 4th gear at almost exactly 4200RPM, very slight gas, and it does it, let off, then do it again, and it does it again. It's not engine movement, but the bucking (hence the denial).
Friday (yet another "Tweak Pagano's Car Day"):
Rear Poly Strut Bushings
Front Poly A-Arm bushings
Poly Steering Rack Bushing
VR6 Front Strut Bushing/Bearing
Clean Ignition Coil
Replace some vac lines


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Got a scan done tonight....NOT A SINGLE FAULT CODE!!!!








I was hoping a scan would point me in the right direction.


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## 2008cc (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

All I can tell you is my car had the same problems as yours and never pulled one code. I changed the MAF sensor and the car runs perfectly. And it wasnt the first MAF that i replaced.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (2008cc)*

MAF swap tomorrow I believe


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I can't believe this is still going on! That must be frustrating as a mofo! Here is another thing to check on. Do you have your plug wires routed through the VW wire loom? My suggestion is this: Try insulating them from each other and also, disconnect your amp. Yes, it shouldn't make a bit of difference, but if you are fighting electrical gremlins... You can get a few pieces of small rubber hose (hardware/auto parts store) to put around the wires. Maybe they are interfering with each other. Can't think of the correct term, but I have seen it happen before. It usually happens when wires get too close or touch. Even through all the jacketing, one causes another to fire late or not strong enough or too early. Charge jumps from one to the other (capacitance?) Try it and see if that helps. I've gotten really skeptical of VW's designs under the hood. Kind of a "what were they thinking?"
Just another guess, hope this works for you.







Also, I read that these motors can develop slight cracks between the valve seats. You might want to think about a leak down or compression test. The latter would be better at determining the cracking valve seat or possible head gasket failure.


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## vw94 (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Could be a bit of a long shot, but check this link out: http://mach.mach-nine.com/gti/vwtechcontent/pdf/tqus.pdf 
My car was having a similar problem so I did some research on the net. I called VW Canada last month (you'll have to call VW America, phone # is on the above document) and gave them my vehicle's serial number. They confirmed this particular recall was never done on my car. It consists of rerouting the ignition cable in such a way so as to avoid any misfiring / spark jumping. My car hasn't done it in over a month and looks like my problem is gone. This particular recall is good for the life of the car and they didn't charge me a thing....hope this helps.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vw94)*

I'm going to check the VIN now...
MAF Swap WILL be done today.
3 pages...wow...


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Yep...outta the VIN range Thanks Anyway!








next...MAF!!!! <-- Should have an answer on the MAF tonight/tomorrow morning


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Welp...I prolly wont see that MAF till Mon or Tuesday....no biggy...I've delt with this way longer...
Anywho, as per another post (and maybe this one), I said I had trouble starting the car, that I would start it, and die as soon as it cranked, and before it reached idle levels, and most the time it starts and struggles to reach idle then is fine.
Well, I pulled the plug on the MAF and tried to crank it and it did nearly the EXACT same thing....so I'm feelin the MAF right now is the problem
Also, prior to cleaning the EGR, the bucking was completely random....since I cleaned it the bucking stopped, but now returned, ONLY, I can reproduce it now quite frequently it seems. If I shift into a gear, and then let up on the gas...say to slow down gradually, then tap it, it will do that bucking thing. 
So now....I'm thinking I had problems, on top of problems, on top of problems, as someone previously pointed out.
As I posted before, VAG Scan produced not a single fault code (except for the one saying, "Hey, turn the car on"). Since it can connect to the ECU...my ECU isn't fried...yay...So that rules out my ECU.
Now, as per the MAF, as one person on here pointed out, as well as my VW Mechanic....the MAF doesn't always throw a code, sometimes it just craps out or works crappy incognito 'till you replace it.
As I said, mon/tues I hope to have a "Test MAF" from another car to run for a few days.....otherwise...tomorrow, I will be cleaning the MAF, and fiddling with some other completely unrelated crap I need to fix.


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## vento III (May 2, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I am experiencing almost the same problem;But it doesn't do it all the time,just once in a wjile when I'm slowly cruising and then I stomp on it.The cost of a new computer is about $1200!!!and there is no aftermarket one's available.One of my oter problems is between shifts the idle hangs up for a split second,the IAC is not working and I don't know why?


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vento III)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I am experiencing almost the same problem;But it doesn't do it all the time,just once in a wjile when I'm slowly cruising and then I stomp on it.The cost of a new computer is about $1200!!!and there is no aftermarket one's available.One of my oter problems is between shifts the idle hangs up for a split second,the IAC is not working and I don't know why?[HR][/HR]​1200...you're gettin screwed...
Luckly, it's not my ECU.
Thats exactly when my car does that, like if your crusing, let your foot off the gas, come down to around 2200RPM, then hit it, it does it....and also when shifting (seems like lower gear shifting) it kinda hangs. 
Definatly feelin MAF right now...
edit - some nifty facts and figures:
This problem started around 3/9/02 @ 111500 miles
Today is: 5/11/02 @ 116000 miles
~ 4500 in 2 months
= ~27000/12 months....
....wow...


[Modified by Pagano, 11:41 PM 5-11-2002]


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## vento III (May 2, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (sporter)*

Check your intake gasket.Mine is still bucking once in while.But recently when I was cleaning the engine I noticed the gasket looked funny.So I started the car and sprayed carb cleaner on it while it was running and sure enough it sucked it right up.After I replaced it the car pulls strong to 6grand and has a lot more low end snap.Before it would fall on it's face like you said at 5 grand and wot.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vento III)*

I replace that sucker everytime the manifold comes off. It's brand new...
Seriously gang - I'm feeling MAF is the root of the problems, with the other problems I've come across just surrounding the MAF....


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## vento III (May 2, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Soon as you find out let me know,It might help steer me in the right direction?


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vento III)*

figured a lil updated wouldn't hurt...so what the hell...
Today it rained like a mofo on my way home...so...my car shuttered like a mofo...
I'm seriously feeling MAF right now, too bad I may not see it till mid week/late week now...dammit...
Rain does in fact make the problem worse, yet, if I spray water into my engine bay at night, not a single spark is shown...
Could I/Should I, attempt to mist the MAF and see what happens at idle?
edit- car started that dual start crap too again recently
turn the key...crank...crank..crank...fire...die before idle...turn key...crank...crank..fire like nothing ever happened and runs all happy
Also...aside from that...I have the following symptoms:
Dual Start Required after car sits for long period (AM?)
Shuttering (I can reproduce it fairly often once it starts, but it has to start first)
Idle Bogging (whenever it damn well pleases)
Hesitation after gear shifting (sometimes)

[Modified by Pagano, 10:55 PM 5-13-2002]


[Modified by Pagano, 10:56 PM 5-13-2002]


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## redcult (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I had this problem dude, turned out my secondary air vacuum line came loose. I don't know if anyone posted that in here yet but whatever.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (redcult)*

where is this located?


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Dude, have you got a wrecker nearby that you can go to and pick up a MAF? I bought one used off the 'tex but I still have my old one. Only thing is that I carved out the screen in front of it. Didn't seem to make any difference to the car though.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Dude, have you got a wrecker nearby that you can go to and pick up a MAF? I bought one used off the 'tex but I still have my old one. Only thing is that I carved out the screen in front of it. Didn't seem to make any difference to the car though.[HR][/HR]​Thats the kind I'm getting, buddy of mine is the god of junk yard shopping, so he can get me parts, but tends to leave them in other peoples cars and houses, etc and so on...so I SHOULD have it today


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

This definately sounds like it could be the MAF. Sometimes when they go bad, they don't put out the right signal, but it's not enough out of spec for the ECU to throw a fault code.


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## redcult (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]where is this located?[HR][/HR]​Haha, good question, I will let you know as soon as I know.


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## max asst (Mar 19, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I feel your pain and your bucking. Really. I "updated" the front motor mount and I feel the stumbling/bucking. My 96GTI8V (build date 11/95) has had it from the first day I got the car (April 15, 1996) but only to a mild degree. It is observed after driving for at least 45 minutes and stopping the car, the idle bounces and may stutter temporarily. I took the car to the dealership and nothing was found. 
This topic you started should be archived forever because it seems to be common, difficult to assess, and approached by many in the same way. The positives and negatives of your experience with this problem would be appreciated by many. Please, when you update your posting, would you be so kind to list the changes you made/the degree of impact of the changes/cost of changes. I forsee many using the Pagano List as a template in approaching the problem.
Thank you. Good luck! We're rooting for you.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (max asst)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I feel your pain and your bucking. Really. I "updated" the front motor mount and I feel the stumbling/bucking. My 96GTI8V (build date 11/95) has had it from the first day I got the car (April 15, 1996) but only to a mild degree. It is observed after driving for at least 45 minutes and stopping the car, the idle bounces and may stutter temporarily. I took the car to the dealership and nothing was found. 
This topic you started should be archived forever because it seems to be common, difficult to assess, and approached by many in the same way. The positives and negatives of your experience with this problem would be appreciated by many. Please, when you update your posting, would you be so kind to list the changes you made/the degree of impact of the changes/cost of changes. I forsee many using the Pagano List as a template in approaching the problem.
Thank you. Good luck! We're rooting for you.[HR][/HR]​I've been updating everything I've done so far to the car, its reaction and so forth. the only thing I'm lacking in is price as I have sourced many parts for below the cheepest inet prices (j-yard, etc). Otherwise, I'd like to plug germanautoparts.com, I purchaced every part i couldn't locate from them and they've been a huge help!
As I've said on the first page, nearly every part I replaced so far is a somewhat 'maintance' item for high milage (116K) cars. So I'm not throwing money out the window. Also, every part I've thrown in has fixed the problem for a day...two...or even a week before it happened again. So far, the only parts left to look at are the MAF, Ignition Coil, and ICM.
Hopefully, the MAF gets swapped today and we can end this post.


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (max asst)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I feel your pain and your bucking. Really. I "updated" the front motor mount and I feel the stumbling/bucking. My 96GTI8V (build date 11/95) has had it from the first day I got the car (April 15, 1996) but only to a mild degree. It is observed after driving for at least 45 minutes and stopping the car, the idle bounces and may stutter temporarily. I took the car to the dealership and nothing was found. 
[HR][/HR]​I have the same commong problem as you after stopping. myself I clean my TB every Fall and Spring it seems to help this I find a large amount of GUNK that makes my TB stick. Pagano I'm sorry to hear you are still having so many problems with you car Its really unfortunate that youhave to go through this I wish I could help


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (max asst)*

Interesting you should mention that...my car used to do the WEIRDEST thing if I let it idle for awhile after having driven it and it was fully warmed up. If I let the car sit and idle for a few minutes (like if I was "talking" to my GF at the time before she would get out of the car







) the car would stutter so badly the entire car rocked (and not from what was happening inside, I assure you!)
Asked the dealer about it and they said that often the idle stabilizer can sometimes 'stick' either causing low rpms momentarily or high, depending.
What's even stranger is that when I replaced the stock air filter with a K&N drop in and removed a bunch of stuff (like the snorkel in the top half of the airbox, and the screen in the fender as well as the ATC flap), it went away, never to be found again.
Also, this is a really really LONG shot but my car did the stumbling thing for quite a long time before it finally died and it turned out to be the Engine Speed Sensor, which is just a cable at the front of the car, near the front mount. Tricky thing to diagnose but now my engine bucking problem which DRIVING is also gone. Spitpilot had the same symptoms as I did but it was his ECU.
Let us know what happens.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

Well...if it was my ECU then I wouldn't be able to connect to it via a VAG-COM. However, I can connect, so the ECU is fine...I think








I should have the MAF in my hands tonight.


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## vw94 (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Had the same problem too. Mine would seem as though it wanted to cut out momentarily (regardless of speed) and then get going again. Problem is, mine would do it 3-4 times in a 20 minute span and then not do it again for 7-8 months (happened 3 times in 2 years).....ECU showed nothing. Changed the fuel filter, cleaned the TB, MAF.....hasn't done it for 2 months now but who knows.
Has anyone ever got more mileage out of a post? Buddy, looks you should be publishing a Pagano's Repair Guide.....Bentley move over.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vw94)*

Well, sorry to keep ya in suspense, but I dont think I'll see the MAF untill tomorrow around noon the earliest (doubt it)....but 'eh...oh well...
I wonder if I can convince the Vortex to pay me royalties everytime this link is clicked...hmmmm
Almost 100 posts...over 1000 view...and the days continue...
C'mon MAF!!!
Red Baron - Would the engine speed sensor effect the idle, if so, in what way? Also, how much did that part $$?


[Modified by Pagano, 9:34 PM 5-15-2002]


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## max asst (Mar 19, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Pagano,
when you finally replace the offending part that has troubled your car, do the VW community a favor. Don't mangle or distort it. I'm sure you'll want to test it's structural integrity with a sledge hammer, but if you keep it, have some official garage test it and find a fundamental flaw, it could lead to the "Pagano Recall". Seriously. My hunch is that it would cost so much to rectify the entire problem, be it from an engineering standpoint or logistics standpoint, so the "code" for the problem does not register on the scans. Like when this carpenter installed doors in our house and they stuck. He told me that he didn't find anything wrong with the doors (car stumbles) and that's the way they're supposed to be (VAG-no code). Oh, I see. I must be stoopid. Thank you for billing me only $65.00 for your time to come out. 
Good luck. Thousands await your results!


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (max asst)*

I seriously have no clue when I will see this other MAF....I'm getting it from a friend, who left it at a friends house, so now it's in the hands of a friend of a friend (still is), and..well, you get the picture....
Who would I take tha MAF to for testing assuming that IS the problem? I work for a HVAC/Electriacl/Plumbing/Mechanical engineering firm, I'm wondering if one of the tech's could test it in their spare time....


----------



## Juricimo (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

oh wow...my 94 jetta is having a similar problem i think...well actually only the rpm's drop to 0 from 3000 sometime when i drive (extreme case) then pick back up again in less than a sec...car stalls too, and rpms are around 8000 and sometime drop to 7500 when i idle, as the ending is bouncing and trembling....hmm....i dunno....i posted about this in this section...maybe someone replies cos it seems to be different problem than yours...i'm thinking fuel pump/ filter....
good luck to you on this..i'll keep checking back here..i hope we both get our VW problem sorted out








>JM<
PS...looks like you replied to my thread as well....thanx for the advice. 


[Modified by Juricimo, 7:45 PM 5-16-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Juricimo)*

hehe, just responded to your post with a note asking if you have visited my post








Also, I think you have one too many 0's in your RPM readings...








edit--------
For everyone who has said they had similar problems, are you OBD1 or OBD2? Just curious


[Modified by Pagano, 10:51 PM 5-16-2002]


----------



## vw_4ever (Oct 21, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well I have the same problem with the RPMs and the bucking, never have been able to figure it out,








that’s why I visit this post day after day I love all the updates. 
I’ve taken it to the dealer when I fist got the car, but they said there was nothing wrong with it, go figure. 
I also drive a 95 Golf Sport III 2.0 8v OBD1, I’ve heard others complain about this before that drove 95 golf’s. But I’d sure like to fix it, so keep up the trouble shooting and good luck. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Yes, the engine speed sensor COULD affect the idle speed...by making the car stall out. If the car doesn't totally stall, it's probably because it's still okay. 
Again, spitpilot knows more about this part since he actually replaced it, I didn't do mine myself, had my mechanic do it. Basically, it's just a wire with a harness on one end and some type of magnetic coil or something on the other end. Pretty simple thing, but cost me $130 Cdn








After I replaced that and the Cam Position sensor (on the distributor, which means you have to replace the ENTIRE distributor







), no more bucking at any speed, rock solid idle.


----------



## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

Congrat's Pagano Over 100 Posts!!!!!
We're all pulling for you







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

I updated the first post to reflect the cam position sensor and engine speed sensor. time to make the phone ring on the MAF....


----------



## GtiGyver (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Haven't been checking this thread in a while.
I have some good news, as a fellow OBD1 guy, I can tell you that we do not need the EGR at all. I bypassed mine and everything works ok. You also can also bypass a good 80% of all those vaccum lines.
This will free up your engine bay and reduce the number of potential problems you may have.
Keep me posted on your MAF transplant.


[Modified by gti_8v, 11:27 AM 5-18-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (gti_8v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Haven't been checking this thread in a while.
I have some good news, as a fellow OBD1 guy, I can tell you that we do not need the EGR at all. I bypassed mine and everything works ok. You also can also bypass a good 80% of all those vaccum lines.
This will free up your engine bay and reduce the number of potential problems you may have.
Keep me posted on your MAF transplant.

[Modified by gti_8v, 11:27 AM 5-18-2002][HR][/HR]​whoa....how do you go about bypassing the EGR? Did you have any problems passing inspection? What VAC lines are you bypassing?


----------



## filthy2.0 (May 20, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

yeah, newbie here. i have heard no mention of a timing belt slipping. possible?
the reason i ask is that i just replaced mine (today promptly at 61k miles... so it's been on my mind a lot)
and immediately got a cel.
bentley and chilton's both say you should be able to twist the belt no more than 90 degrees,
but this leaves a lot of deflection. when it's tighter i get that wandering idle/growling noise.
i slacked it off, but i don't want to get too slack. any tips for getting the tension right with an
older fixed pulley?

the perts (boring but true)
filthy black 97 golf GL 2.0 (ABA)
no mods except for some seattle mold


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (filthy2.0)*

quote:[HR][/HR]yeah, newbie here. i have heard no mention of a timing belt slipping. possible?
[HR][/HR]​It may be possible..but not for me..
When I replaced my valve cover (114K?) I took a peak at it and it looks to be perfect (replaced around 82K...and I'm at 116K (117 by mid week this week).....
edit - ...FOUR PAGES!!! 


[Modified by Pagano, 8:38 PM 5-19-2002]


----------



## Halo8 (May 15, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Hey everyone...my GF's 86 Golf is doing the same thing and my 85 Cabbie used to do it too (sold it). I'm getting ready to change out the injector o-rings, fuel distributor, fuel accumulator, fuel filter, and clean out the fuel lines. Everytime this happens, the car does stall and you can hear a "buzzing" noise...any clue as to what this could be?


----------



## jettaboy2001 (Oct 22, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Halo8)*

man i am feeling your pain bro. i have problem like that. i put in a newer motor and the same damn thing happen. change the fuel filter , fuel injector , tb, the whole ignition system, prayed to the VW gods. and what gets me pissed the most is the dealer can't find the f-ing problem.







$3,000 later and having the same damn problem


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Halo8)*

depending on the location, that 'buzzing' is most likely your fuel pump still running when the car stalled...


----------



## Halo8 (May 15, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

now you see, that's what i was thinking, the last time this happened i was too mad to even think about looking for it. but does the buzzing mean the pump is trying to push air through the system? could my in-tank be clogged?


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Halo8)*

I dunno what would be the cause on an 86 system....if it's anything like the A3...it's mearly the pump running...
For the late OBD1 crowd (94,95,96) if you lift your rear bench you will see this little harness back there on the passanger side, it's held in with a zip tie. This is your DTC tool, you can use it to retrieve DTC codes. 
But, if you plug it into the scan port, turn the key to ON, turn it to OFF, then back ON again (I think thats the order)....the fuel pump will start running, and you can hear the buzzing sound.


----------



## Juricimo (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

never could find that little scan tool







maybe i didnt look hard enough...i've been checking with a wire spliced on both sides....primitive but works....too bad my car isnt spitting out codes, when there INDEED is something wrong with the car. By the way, my friend has the same problem as mine (as i have described earlier) he changed out most of the parts and problem getting worse (rpm's falling/fluctuating when drving) he thinks a bad fuel pump...i'm starting to regret buying my VW even though i love these cars, and this is my 2nd VW (may #1 RIP) 
>JM<


[Modified by Juricimo, 12:01 AM 5-21-2002]


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Juricimo)*

Have any of you guys thought of replacing or cleaning out the idle stabilizer? I don't even know where it is on a Mk3 but I did it to my friends Mk2 and it helped a lot.
sorry, just thought of this now. Mind you this wouldn't explain the bucking while driving...but the engine speed sensor WOULD explain that aspect of it.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

OKAY!! I got the MAF installed....I will pull the (-) term on the battery today once I get to work...and connect it when I leave so it can reset itself....it seems like the bucking and hesitation has stopped....I will hopefully see whats up in a few days with this....the idle seemed to still drop a bit...but the ECU may just need a reset...so I'll keep you posted















Red Baron - Idle Stabalizer...same as Idle Air Control??? If so I cleaned that already


[Modified by Pagano, 11:54 AM 5-21-2002]


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Umm...I don't know, it might be. Let us know what happens!


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

well...I just got to work....
the idle is still dipping
the bucking seems to of continued as well...
As of right now, my car is sitting with the batt unplugged untill I go home tonight, at which point I will see how it rides on the way home...along with tomorrow.
Plus, I'm curious to see how it starts tomorrow morning, as it's been requiring 2 starts every morning for the past week now.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Welp...got home a few hours ago...
The idle did smooth out a hair...and the bucking has been reduced...but all in all..
still bucking http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
still dippin http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
I'm curious to see how it starts up tomorrow AM for me....
Ignition coil gets a cleanin one of these comming days...as well as a vac check on all my lines...and cleaning of all electrical connections...
edit-
hehe...as one of my friends has pointed out...I've done a slew of work on this car...and it runs amazingly smooth when it isn't bucking...way better then before: On a positive note...once this problem is fixed...I have a feeling the car will feel brand new again








edit edit- 
To everyone who is OBD1...I'd highly suggest you guys clean out your IAC, EGR, and Throttle Body http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
[Modified by Pagano, 9:18 PM 5-21-2002]


[Modified by Pagano, 9:19 PM 5-21-2002]


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

That sucks dude. But cleaning out your ignition coil isn't going to do anything except maybe make it easier to start, won't affect the idle at all.
You must have a cracked or loose vacuum line somewhere (poor idle) and the engine speed sensor (bucking) and / or cam position sensor (idle and bucking) is / are toasted or on their way out. 
Have you checked the wiring going to the engine and the wires on the distributor? Trying spraying them with a bit of WD40 and see if that helps. As for the starting problem...it could be your relay 109 is somewhat faulty as that is what gives the power to the ecu and stuff. take it out, if it's black plastic, you have an older one. Go to the dealer and ask for a replacement, which will be gray plastic, that's the newer version. Couldn't hurt anything and you've done a lot the car already.
While you're there, might as well get the engine speed sensor. You may need to order it and it will be difficult to replace. Ask spitpilot for instructions on how to do it, he did it and I think it's somewhat involved.
I'm willing to put money on the cam sensor and the engine speed sensor as your problems. The MAF was probably fine, and even if it was dead, you would just run a bit richer I think.
Also, try asking vwtechnician, he might be able to help you as he is a real VW tech. Oh yeah, so is 10 bar turbo, nice guy, he might be able to help you out. They both helped me.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

OK...MAF did jack....
Car still requires two starts in the AM
Car still dips
Car still bucks
edit-
Just got off the phone with Mark at germanautoparrts... and odered the ECM relay. So hopefully I will see that on Friday. as for the engine speed sensor...does anyone have a part number for this?



[Modified by Pagano, 1:15 PM 5-22-2002]


----------



## vwtechnician (Apr 30, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I will try ro help. In regards to your Instant message. Double check all of the work that has been done. Check to see that everything was connected properly and in there correct places. The problem sounds like a vacuum problem. Not being in front of your car makes it difficult to be sure. Check all of your vacuum lines. Especially the on to the fuel press regulator. If it was a problem with your coil or cam postition sensor. You would most definately be getting a check engine light. you can check your coil and plu wires by geting a spay bottle of water and spraying a fine mist of water on them and see if they arc. I doubt that this is your problem but try it. also after changing the TPS did you set your throttle angle? If not use the VAG and go into engine electronics 01. Basic settings 04. And go into channel 098 and let it set your throttle angle.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwtechnician)*

I'm going to be replacing all of my VAC lines and use some hose clamps on them to secure. 
As for the throttle angle...no, I did not reset that...but I will have access to a VAG-COM (two actually) tomorrow, so I'll make a note to do that.
While I have the VAG-COM available...what diagnostic things should I go into that would aid in locating the problem>?


----------



## vwtechnician (Apr 30, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

If your throttle angle is not set. I believe that when you do set it you will see a vast improvement.


----------



## GtiGyver (Mar 22, 2002)

This situation is quite funny in a way, everyone here has their own idea on what is wrong with your car and everyone suspects a different part.
This one of the few cases where too much help can be a problem.
Good luck though.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (gti_8v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]This situation is quite funny in a way, everyone here has their own idea on what is wrong with your car and everyone suspects a different part.
This one of the few cases where too much help can be a problem.
Good luck though.
[HR][/HR]​Yea huh? The damn thing didn't throw a single code at me...so naturally theres like 50-gazillion things that will cause idle to dip, car to bog, and car to not start every time on the first go....
So sure enough...people have had problems...and they've fixed them...I think I've rached the holy grail of problems though. I have uncovered the beast...and it must be stopped!! AHHHHHHHHH 
lol...anywho....
VW Tech - What in the hell would cause all three of these symptoms? idle dippin, car bogging, car requiring two starts in the AM?


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Get that throttle angle set!!!


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Get that throttle angle set!!![HR][/HR]​Gets done tonight....


----------



## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwtechnician)*

quote:[HR][/HR]If it was a problem with your coil or cam postition sensor. You would most definately be getting a check engine light. [HR][/HR]​I've got a problem with mine...probably related to a timing belt change. It creates a DTC any time my car gets above idle, but never throws a CE light. So i don't think a problem with the CPS necessarily makes the light go on.
Still don't know if my stumbling problem has anything to do with the CPS, but it's the only thing on my car that throws a code. Pagano isn't even getting that much.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

Well..
Hooked up....1-4-098 
No feature found under that code...
Tried an OBD2 MK3...same result...no such code.
Can you double check on the throttle angle reset?


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Mine's doing it too (bucking). It threw the "Bank 1 lean" code. I'm guessing it's the MAF being a little "off," but not completely busted.


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## Juricimo (Oct 25, 2001)

*GET THIS...*

Well, Pagano, remember how i memtioned about my problem not too long ago (rpm's fluctuating and stuff, bad idle + rpm's fluctuating down when idle) well the car is in the shop right now, and they pulled an "engine speed sensor" code..... i did the diagnostic test myself, and came up with nothing several times....not sure how much that will cost to replace, but i pretty much have no time, and expertise to troubleshoot the damm thing myself.....
as long as they fix it though....wish me luck...got my fingers crossed for you.
>JM<


[Modified by Juricimo, 2:54 PM 5-24-2002]


----------



## A3Infidel (Nov 29, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I haven't read the whole post but have you ruled out fueling issues? It all sounds related to fuel to me. Could be injectors shorting out, fuel pump, if the MAF is fine could something else be affecting the A/F?


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (A3Infidel)*

ALAS!!!
Ok...every good thing tends to have a story...so I shall tell...
I began today, by replacing the ECM Control Module. Disconnected the battery, bla bla bla...plugged it in. Also today, I picked up some Vac hoses to redo some connections. Did the one goin to the FPR, and did the one below the FPR connection on the intake manifold.
I'm about ready to do the one on the EGR...lookin...lookin...the damn thing isn't connected!!!! I find it swinging in the breeze back there all shredded at one end. Pull it out, attempt to injure the inannimate object...failed...so I threw it against the pavement. I cut a new section and put it in place and stopped there. Hooked everything back up...
Car started instantly...not only did it start instantly, but the idle went to 950, and stopped dead...didn't even rise above the 950 mark...and it sat solid... I let it idle for about 10 minutes, and it did not move more then 20 rpms....
I think I have sourced it!!!! The mo-fo EGR vac line. So far...I have 'wasted' money on one part....ECM module...which ran me a whopping $15 after shipping. So if this IS the problem...it's safe to say my car will be running like a champ!
I'm going out tonight, so I'll let you know whats up!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
edit- 
I'll know for a fact tomorrow AM when I start it... I'm thinking condensation may of gotten into the EGR on the VAC end causing it not to start... 


[Modified by Pagano, 7:20 PM 5-24-2002]


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Mine's doing it too (bucking). It threw the "Bank 1 lean" code. I'm guessing it's the MAF being a little "off," but not completely busted.[HR][/HR]​Well, after getting my codes cleared yesterday, the CEL came back on again today! I'll check my connections and hoses, then order a MAF...


----------



## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

That's awesome man...makes me want to go check out my vacuum hoses.
Glad to see that you fixed it!!!


----------



## Juricimo (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

looks like 2 fixes in one day. except mine cost me a bundle (264 US$). The "Vehicle Speed Sensor" generated a "code" at the dealership. I got no codes when i checked the mug myself....whatever...the rpm's dont act all crazy anymore....but still stalls. Needs a "Ignition Switch" cos when i move my key in the ignition when the car is running, it just stalls.....that's not too good.
well i'm glad we got our major car problems fixed!









later
>JM< 


[Modified by Juricimo, 9:23 PM 5-24-2002]


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Juricimo)*

well...got to put about 20 miles on the car...and heres what I have to report
Idle...perfect so far....
Hesitation...seemed to of disappeared
Bucking...continues
2 Starting Business...will know tomorrow AM
I'm pretty happy that the idle is all normal now








However...car still bucks http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
Edit - it also SEEMS that the bucking got worse since I replaced/reconnected the vac line going to the EGR....
Edit Edit - I'm thinking it isn't the EGR valve...but rather the lil "gizmo" it connects to...the vac runs from the EGR...to a gizmo...then to the intake manifold on the port just below the FPR vac port....What is this gizmo...theres like a power connection going to it?
[Modified by Pagano, 1:20 AM 5-25-2002]


[Modified by Pagano, 1:22 AM 5-25-2002]


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Edit Edit - I'm thinking it isn't the EGR valve...but rather the lil "gizmo" it connects to...the vac runs from the EGR...to a gizmo...then to the intake manifold on the port just below the FPR vac port....What is this gizmo...theres like a power connection going to it?[HR][/HR]​Well, there's a temperature sender in the EGR valve, and then there's an EGR solenoid. They both connect to the ECU.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well, there's a temperature sender in the EGR valve, and then there's an EGR solenoid. They both connect to the ECU.
[HR][/HR]​I believe the unit I am talking about is the EGR solenoid then?? It's located by the airbox and mounts to a bracket on the wheel well. 
Also, I replaced a few more vac lines today...noteably, the one that goes into the firewall between the two coolant hoses. That thing was barely held on...I meerly gave it a slight pull and it fell off.
edit - at this point...I feel it is safe to say my idle is normal http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


[Modified by Pagano, 3:24 PM 5-25-2002]


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I believe the unit I am talking about is the EGR solenoid then?? It's located by the airbox and mounts to a bracket on the wheel well. [HR][/HR]​That sounds like it.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

yea...time to source one of those and return that MAF seeing as how it did nothing....
Also, the car started like normal today...though it was around 12:30 when I cranked it....I wont be satisfied with that result untill I crank it over at 7:00AM and have it fire right up...
But it seems very hopeful right now


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]yea...time to source one of those and return that MAF seeing as how it did nothing....
Also, the car started like normal today...though it was around 12:30 when I cranked it....I wont be satisfied with that result untill I crank it over at 7:00AM and have it fire right up...
But it seems very hopeful right now[HR][/HR]​I don't know if the EGR solenoid is what's causing your problem, but that's what the unknown thingy was.








EDIT: 5 pages! BTW, if you want, I've got a spare Bentley for the Mk3's you can borrow.


[Modified by vwgtirob, 4:15 PM 5-25-2002]


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]EDIT: 5 pages! BTW, if you want, I've got a spare Bentley for the Mk3's you can borrow. [HR][/HR]​...time to modify sig








Thanks for the offer, but I have a Bentley hangin out in my back seat....
The reason I'm thinking EGR is because I cleaned out the EGR valve...and the car ran GREAT...the bucking stopped for a few days...then came back slowly...and now I'm back to the original state....Low and behold...the vac line popped off the EGR, so I put on a new one...idle is perfect again...but the bucking continued. I honestly do not think it is the EGR, if anything, I feel it would be that EGR solenoid, or the probe going into the EGR.

[Modified by Pagano, 4:21 PM 5-25-2002]
edit - hell, while I'm at it...if I can acquire the EGR solenoid...I may as well try to acquire an entire EGR unit, probe and all....


[Modified by Pagano, 4:23 PM 5-25-2002]


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Things to check would be:
Bad EGR valve
Bad EGR temp sensor
Dirty or bad EGR solenoid
Bad EGR solenoid or temp sensor wiring
Since it only bucks sometimes, I'm inclined to believe it's the temp sensor.


----------



## silvervdubs99 (Oct 7, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

stop getting gas at the idian mobil on 10, go to the sunoco on 46 across from hackettstown tire, fill up on 94.
or u could throw your car away


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (silvervdubs99)*

quote:[HR][/HR]stop getting gas at the idian mobil on 10, go to the sunoco on 46 across from hackettstown tire, fill up on 94.
or u could throw your car away
[HR][/HR]​lol...I usually always run sunoco 93 as there is the one in Ledgewood, and the other where I work. If not...mobile/exxon/shell is my next pic.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Since it only bucks sometimes, I'm inclined to believe it's the temp sensor.[HR][/HR]​aaaaaah....I had to read this post a few times then another bit of info clicked in my head...
I think I had mentioned this before, but the bucking seems to only happen once the car has warmed up......
Aside from the temp sensor...what else could you recommend?
Edit-
To date...
3/9/02 @ 111500miles idle problem started
5/25/02 @ 117200miles idle problem stopped...bucking still exists...



[Modified by Pagano, 5:44 PM 5-25-2002]


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]aaaaaah....I had to read this post a few times then another bit of info clicked in my head...
I think I had mentioned this before, but the bucking seems to only happen once the car has warmed up......
Aside from the temp sensor...what else could you recommend?[HR][/HR]​I can't think of anything at the moment; I just reread the whole thread, and being that you've already done the O2 sensors, I doubt that's it.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I just reread the whole thread[HR][/HR]​That prolly took a good portion of your day








I am going to talk to my buddy and see if he can hook me up with an EGR with the temp sensor attatched...that or I may go J-yard shopping


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I just reread the whole thread
That prolly took a good portion of your day








[HR][/HR]​I read quickly!








quote:[HR][/HR]I am going to talk to my buddy and see if he can hook me up with an EGR with the temp sensor attatched...that or I may go J-yard shopping







[HR][/HR]​I'm -SO- happy the AEG engines (Mk4 2.0) don't have EGR! I just ordered me a brand-new MAF, and it was way cheap! Hopefully, that'll fix MY problem


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

ehhh....slight problem here guys (gals?)
I started it up to go out tonight...drove about 1/4 mile came to a stop sign...and the car idled like it had a big ass cam in it (whump whump whump whump whump)....solid idle level...up around 950ish, but a continual whumping that you could feel
did that twice...once at that stop sign...again at a light another 1/4 mile away. Pulled over, popped the hood, checked all my vac lines and all was well...car didn't do it again at all tonight after those two times...it actually stopped as soon as I pulled over to inspect.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I wonder if you can completely bypass the EGR on those cars. That way you can narrow it down to definately being EGR, and not something more sinister.


----------



## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

Pagano

I think you should have your own forum now 5 pages MY GOD MAN http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to you for putting up with your car!! many of us would have pitched their ride in the river by now


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

lol....yeah...I'm beginning to get a lil more upset with it as the days roll on....heres what I got for everyone:
2 Starts - Still required in AM
Bucking - Continues
Idle - Normal (except for the two times it was a lumpy idle (whump-whump-whump))
Hesitation - 'eh I dunno
All and all....I think the only thing that went away was the crap idle....which I give a 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
However, the title of this topic remains.... "HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating"


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Hey man, have you gotten the relay 109 yet? I know that's probably NOT the problem but it's not going to hurt to replace it anyways and it's a fairly inexpensive part.
What about the speed sensor? I've got money on that part...it's gotta be that part


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Hey man, have you gotten the relay 109 yet? I know that's probably NOT the problem but it's not going to hurt to replace it anyways and it's a fairly inexpensive part.
[HR][/HR]​Got 109 and installed it on Friday....nadda damn thing....
quote:[HR][/HR]What about the speed sensor? I've got money on that part...it's gotta be that part







[HR][/HR]​Didn't someone say the exact same thing only replace speed sensor with spark plugs...or injector o-rings...or MAF...or...








List:
EGR Valve
EGR Temp Sensor
EGR Solenoid
Engine Speed Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Just reread my first post...must say...I have replaced a helluva lot of parts...talk about engine maintance...sheesh

also....I think hesitation/bucking can go into the same catagory...the only oddball at that point is 2 starts....what would cause both bucking, and 2 starts in AM?


[Modified by Pagano, 2:37 PM 5-27-2002]


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Yeah, that was me...I know, I'm definitely no mechanic but I have lots of advice








Also, did you take vwtech's advice and get the throttle angle set?


----------



## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

I reset my throttle angle last night with my VAG-COM. Did it again today, so i'm giving that fix two http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

I followed his instructions, but they led to an invalid channel on the VAG-COM unit


----------



## sukzilla (May 19, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I am new to the list and VW, but I have been an AUDI tech now for a year and a half. I have read all of your posts. I am going to try and give you a little advice.
To test your EGR Valve, disconnect the vacuum hose to the EGR valve at the solenoid end. install a vacuum pump, let the car warm and idle. while the engine is idling apply about 15" - 20" of mercury to the valve to open it. Your idle should turn to poop. This signifies that the valve is working properly. Now the solenoid is what regulates the amount of EGR opening. Car off, Remove the solenoid and try blowing through it, you shouldn't be able too. In the first test, if your idle does not turn to poop, you either have a bad EGR valve or the port that connects the EGR to the intake manifold is clogged, use a coat hanger and some carb cleaner to free this hole.
You cannot clean a MAF sensor. You will only contaminate it. Is it a hot wire type or a hot film type???
Audis have some MAF problems also. MAF are only supposed to get 5volts not batt voltage. Almost all sensors are supposed to get 5 volts from the ECM.
However 02 sensors, and Knock sensors create their own voltage signal.
I hope you are using o2 sensor safe carb cleaner and not Brake Klean.
With your vag-com. Go to read measuring value block, 08 then 001 or 002 or 003, what ever throttle position sensor is. watch this block, key on engine off, as you push down on the accelerator slowly, the voltage or percentage reading should climb gradually and consistantly and shouldn' t jump around.
I don't know what kind of EVAP system the OBD-1's have but consider getting that checked. 
Or, to save you more money, bring it to a VW Dealer and buy an hour of Diagnosis.
What Motornic Version is your ECM. What version, 5.9??? MMS 410., CIS???
Let me know dude, GOOD LUCK


----------



## sukzilla (May 19, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (sukzilla)*

Forgot some other things, just because you can talk to your ECM doesn't mean it's not bad. I have replaced ECMs because I have found nothing wrong in any other system, sometimes because i have not been able to pull faults.
A possibility is a fuel pressure regulator, however you have done FI cleanings and it hassn't helped, I don' t think it should be a problem.
I just purchased a 1998 jetta III 2.0L and it had a stumble off of idle, replaced the cap and rotor, fixed instantly.
Wish I had some older VW experience to help you out, but all I can offer you is Generic VW-AUDI experience.


----------



## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Here is another stupid guess. Have you changed any accessories recently? Swapped an alternator or A/C compressor? do you think maybe one of your belt driven accessories could be dragging the whole thing down? I had it happen to me on an older car. The damn alternator bearings seized and the motor idled like poop...until the belt snapped







That was an interesting ride home!


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Clean97GTi)*

The only major part I changed was the waterpump...but that was like a month before these problems came about...
As for the MAF...I acquried one from another '95 Jetta 2.0 and it still did the bucking crap and the car it came from ran perfectly...so I'm feeling I can rule out MAF.


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

So...have you tried the idle control valve?


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So...have you tried the idle control valve?







[HR][/HR]​Clean as a whistle








Todays input gets a - http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Ok gang....another lil update
Idle is still solid....tad rough...but not dipping like before...just feels kinda rough...eh I dunno...maybe paranoia....anywho...
This morning, I disconnected the electrical connector to the EGR valve....CEL kicked on immediatly, but I drove it anyway. Car continued to buck, so about 10 miles later...I pulled the electrical connection on the EGR Solenoid also....
Drove about 80 miles or so today, with both disconnected....and honestly...it feels MUCH MUCH MUCH better....It's hard to distinguish what I'm feeling, if it's the shot motor mounts...or my engine bucking. I'm thinking the Mechanical/Vac aspect of the EGR is still working so it may be causing very slight tremours...but no where NEAR what I was expecting before.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well, by pulling the EGR solenoid's connection, you effectively bypassed the entire EGR system. That pretty much narrows it down as being EGR-related. 
Maybe a bad EGR temp sensor is causing the ECU to dump more exhaust gas into the intake mixture than necessary.
If you can live with the CEL on, then that's fine for now.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well, by pulling the EGR solenoid's connection, you effectively bypassed the entire EGR system. That pretty much narrows it down as being EGR-related. 
Maybe a bad EGR temp sensor is causing the ECU to dump more exhaust gas into the intake mixture than necessary.
If you can live with the CEL on, then that's fine for now.







[HR][/HR]​My ONLY problem with the CEL is that I may be goin too rich and will foul my O2 sensor faster...and possibly f up my cat
I'm thinking that tomorrow...I will take some scrap vac hose that I have left over..cut a 1" piece and melt the end shut and cut off the vac supply to both the solenoid and egr valve...see what that does for me
...while at it, I may also shim a thin piece of metal between the EGR spacer leading to the intake manifold (that lil extension thing...
This way the EGR is basically sealed from the intake system, and the vac is gone....completely by-passed at that point
edit - also, wouldnt it be a bad solenoid rather then temp sensor...I pulled the EGR connection...no difference, when I pulled the solenoid connection I felt the difference


[Modified by Pagano, 9:38 PM 5-28-2002]


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]My ONLY problem with the CEL is that I may be goin too rich and will foul my O2 sensor faster...and possibly f up my cat
I'm thinking that tomorrow...I will take some scrap vac hose that I have left over..cut a 1" piece and melt the end shut and cut off the vac supply to both the solenoid and egr valve...see what that does for me
...while at it, I may also shim a thin piece of metal between the EGR spacer leading to the intake manifold (that lil extension thing...
This way the EGR is basically sealed from the intake system, and the vac is gone....completely by-passed at that point
edit - also, wouldnt it be a bad solenoid rather then temp sensor...I pulled the EGR connection...no difference, when I pulled the solenoid connection I felt the difference
[HR][/HR]​The solenoid is what actually controls the whole EGR system. When it's not activated, the valve is closed, not letting any vacuum to the rest of the system. When it opens up, it lets the vacuum pass, and that activates the EGR valves.
The solenoid or the EGR valve may be sticking open, too; that would cause bucking.
Disconnecting the vacuum hose (as opposed to the intake or exhaust hoses) to the EGR valve should have the same effect as disconnecting the wires to the EGR solenoid.
Pick up a vacuum gauge and go through the procedure on page 26-7 in the Bentley under "To test EGR system"










[Modified by vwgtirob, 10:05 PM 5-28-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

IC...suppose I should acquire a guage/pump


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]IC...suppose I should acquire a guage/pump[HR][/HR]​They're cheap, and save headaches.








You probably shouldn't have to worry about your system running rich as the EGR isn't really necessary to run, and if the ECU isn't getting the temp sensor input, it knows the EGR is inactive.
You could check your blink codes...


[Modified by vwgtirob, 10:13 PM 5-28-2002]


----------



## sukzilla (May 19, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

If you electrically disconect the EGR solenoid valve, it feels better???
or when you disconnect vacuum from solenoid valve to EGR.
If it feels better when you disconnect vacuum it is most likely the solenoid.
If it feels better when you disconnect electrical connections to the solenoid it sounds like it could be an ECM or a short in the electrical wiring.
I believe the Germans used a Ground side control on the majority of their sensors and injectors/solenoid valves, so it might be worthwhile to trace the wiring from the EGR solenoid valve back to the ecm and look for a fray or short to ground.
just an AUDI techs 2cents worth.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (sukzilla)*

electrical disconnect Im going to try and get a solenoid and EGR from another car and swap them in


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Mine's doing it too (bucking). It threw the "Bank 1 lean" code. I'm guessing it's the MAF being a little "off," but not completely busted.
...
Well, after getting my codes cleared yesterday, the CEL came back on again today! I'll check my connections and hoses, then order a MAF...[HR][/HR]​I got my MAF just now and replaced it (took me longer to install my new sunglasses holder than the MAF), and my (different) bucking problem is completely gone, the car runs noticably better, and it starts up better, even when warm.








And soon your car will be all well, too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

welp...about another 60 on it today...
the bucking is still there...any chance that removing the vac line will also effect the EGR, even though the electrical connection is already pulled?


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]welp...about another 60 on it today...
the bucking is still there...any chance that removing the vac line will also effect the EGR, even though the electrical connection is already pulled?[HR][/HR]​Might be the ECU doing funky things thinking that the EGR is still there. Don't know. Or maybe the ECU is bad (has a bad input line or two).


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

...brb....goin to go sacrafice a goat to the VW god....


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

If all the vacuum lines are intact, but the connection to the solenoid and EGR temperature sender are pulled, then it's possible that the solenoid is bad (opening spontaneously) or the EGR is bad (opening spontaneously).
That is only if it's the EGR actually causing the bucking.


----------



## sukzilla (May 19, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Just buy a new EGR valve, and clean the carbon out of the intake port. 
This will fix your problem. 
Just buy the damn valve.
None of this swapping nonsense.
Buy a new valve and if it don't fix it through a new EGR solenoid at it.
Nothing quite like dartboard diagnostics.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (sukzilla)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Just buy a new EGR valve, and clean the carbon out of the intake port. 
This will fix your problem. 
Just buy the damn valve.
None of this swapping nonsense.
Buy a new valve and if it don't fix it through a new EGR solenoid at it.
Nothing quite like dartboard diagnostics.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​lol...I think the reason I don't do that is summed up in your last statement....
I'd rather pull the part from a working car with no problems, then throw money out the window on something if it isn't needed....
On to later and greater things
6th page







time to update sig....again
Well, after three matches, I came to the conclusion that the vac line is hella durable stuff as it didn't even melt or catch fire.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
So I cut a 2" piece, cut a drywall screw in half and scrwed it into one end of the vac hose. Pulled the EGR solenoid vac line from the intake manifold and put this plug in its place....expect a heads up tomorrow.
edit - 
sukzilla - IIRC - EGR valve + solenoid is over $350USD new....cost to test from working car...free...cost to acquire one from working car....next to free...








oh...and Mozilla rules...so I dunno what zilla is sukin









edit edit-
I cleaned the current EGR with throttle body cleaner (one can), I also cleaned the EGR temp sensor with TB cleaner (part of that one can). When I reinstalled, I cleaned out the extension piece between the EGR valve and intake manifold, as well as replacing both gaskets...but I don't think I cleaned the port on the intake manifold








edit edit edit-
Rob - I think it is EGR related...as nearly everytime I've touched the EGR...the car ran great for a period afterwords then went back to normal.
Cleaned it - Ran great for a few days (actually longest period of time before bucking started again)
Did other ish
Disconnected Electrical - Ran great for about 80 miles
Disconnected VAC and plugged intake line - Will know tomorrow



[Modified by Pagano, 9:17 PM 5-29-2002]


----------



## toenail (May 11, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Wow.
My girlfriends car has been doing this since shortly after she bought it a few years ago. We brought it to the dealership (I know) and they replaced the timing belt and said that was definitely the problem, that it was worn and had slipped. It seemed to really make the car come alive, for a little while. Then the problem returned.
It is most noticeable on the interstate when going through tolls. Stop to pay the toll. Go to accelerate away from the toll and the car feels like it is momentarily starved for air, fuel or spark. It is sudden enough that both of us lurch forward in our seats as if the brakes were hit slightly, then, like an on switch, we're off to the races. Comes and goes at will, only after warmed up, only after coming to a stop and then accelerating again.
We have not had the starting problem, but the idle does randomly search and dip for no reason. Sometimes it won't happen for a week, other times it happens 5 days straight. The idle condition reminds me of a bad vacuum line I had on an old Civic. I've yet to try to replace these.
I wish you luck in finding the source of your problems. I'm just starting to look into ours seriously and will start with the vacuum lines. I'll be checking this thread to let you know of any progress and see what you've found.
Toenail


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (toenail)*

yay....another person with the same problem....ehhh...dunno if thats something to celebrate...but it makes me feel a lil better...
Thats the exact feeling I'm getting...same thing for like going through traffic lights...stop signs...yields...and whatever else is similar to those...
I actually felt the EXACT same feeling as a passanger in a 2.0 beetle...CEL was lit and she said it was scanned...pulled up bad plug and coil pack
edit - what year is this car?


[Modified by Pagano, 11:05 PM 5-29-2002]


----------



## redcult (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

6 Pages!


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (redcult)*

ok gang!
no clue why I used the exclemation point...
Today - http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
As I said in my previous post, I created a plug for the EGR vac line system. Car still bucks...car still requires two starts...BUT! the idle is fine!
Will the Engine Speed Sensor, Cam position Sensor...or BOTH cause a bucking/require starting the car twice?


----------



## silvervdubs99 (Oct 7, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

tell you what, i'll swing by, give you 500, and u can buy yourself a fancy PUCH motor scooter that will give you no such problems, if the deal sounds good, e-mail me


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR] As I said in my previous post, I created a plug for the EGR vac line system. Car still bucks...car still requires two starts...BUT! the idle is fine![HR][/HR]​Hmm...
quote:[HR][/HR]Will the Engine Speed Sensor, Cam position Sensor...or BOTH cause a bucking/require starting the car twice?[HR][/HR]​Probably not. They're easy to test though. Hook an oscilloscope up to the input to the coil pack and each sensor, and monitor the waveforms.
If they weren't working, they'd not work all the time, not just to cause bucking. And you'd see codes.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (silvervdubs99)*

quote:[HR][/HR]tell you what, i'll swing by, give you 500, and u can buy yourself a fancy PUCH motor scooter that will give you no such problems, if the deal sounds good, e-mail me
[HR][/HR]​So I get $500?? Hell yea...








well....now what?


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]well....now what?[HR][/HR]​Instrumentation! Fuel pressure, vacuum pressure, etc. You should be able to see an abnormality when it bucks.
Anyone know if you can you get parameter logging from VAG-COM on an OBD I? I know you can't get it from a normal OBD I scan tool.


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

To test the engine speed sensor and the cam position sensor, the Bentley tells you the procedure I believe and the acceptable range.
It also tells you how to test the coil pack.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Anyone know if you can you get parameter logging from VAG-COM on an OBD I? I know you can't get it from a normal OBD I scan tool.
[HR][/HR]​TTT - VAG COM access again this thursday!


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Anyone know if you can you get parameter logging from VAG-COM on an OBD I? I know you can't get it from a normal OBD I scan tool.
TTT - VAG COM access again this thursday![HR][/HR]​I'd love to see what this is. My curiosity is piqued now!


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

...wonder if Erich or Jason would lemme just play with their VAG tool for a while


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...wonder if Erich or Jason would lemme just play with their VAG tool for a while







[HR][/HR]​Scandalous!


----------



## acorn (May 9, 2002)

*alternator problem?*

i only read page 1 & 6, but have you guys checked the alternator?
you guys mention it only happens when the engine is hot, maybe it has something to do w/ the 2 fans or maybe even the ac unit.
anyways, just my 2 cents
99 vw mkiv 2.0


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (acorn)*

Actually yes...the alternator went through my mind as well as Steve's (TREK'In).
Can someone elaborate on how the alternator would cause the bucking?


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

If it was creating an undue strain on your motor. You'd probably notice any alternator problems because your battery wouldn't be charged properly and/or your lights would dim. Also, you'd most likely hear the alternator belt slipping if it was straining your motor.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

The saga continues....
So I've been rolling around for about 200 miles or so with the EGR electrical connection plugged in, and the vac line sealed off comming from the intake manifold.
Disconnect EGR Valve Elec Connection - CEL
Disconnect EGR Solenoid & Valve Elec Connection - CEL
Connect both electrical connections and seal vac line - NO CEL
So I have been driving around w/o the CEL and figured I would reconnect the vac line tonight as this test proved nothing...
Low and behold...I'm driving home tonight on Rt 80...doin 80... CEL comes on steady after about 15 miles...I pull over...figure "what-the-hey" and reconnect the VAC line going to the EGR Solenoid and remove the block I had in place.
Start the car again....CEL stayed on for about half a mile, then turned off...


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The saga continues....
So I've been rolling around for about 200 miles or so with the EGR electrical connection plugged in, and the vac line sealed off comming from the intake manifold.
Disconnect EGR Valve Elec Connection - CEL
Disconnect EGR Solenoid & Valve Elec Connection - CEL
Connect both electrical connections and seal vac line - NO CEL
So I have been driving around w/o the CEL and figured I would reconnect the vac line tonight as this test proved nothing...
Low and behold...I'm driving home tonight on Rt 80...doin 80... CEL comes on steady after about 15 miles...I pull over...figure "what-the-hey" and reconnect the VAC line going to the EGR Solenoid and remove the block I had in place.
Start the car again....CEL stayed on for about half a mile, then turned off...







[HR][/HR]​You probably just threw a whole bunch of EGR-related codes. There might be a productive clue buried in there somewhere. We can only hope


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

but what would of caused it to kick on...
200 miles of nothing changing...no CEL...then it turns on one day for giggles at highway speeds?


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

Hey you come to think of it Mine does that everyonce in a while I have no Idea why Hasn't happened in a month though 
Pagano I see your Off to Page 7 pretty soon 
we're rooti'n for ya though!!


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]but what would of caused it to kick on...
200 miles of nothing changing...no CEL...then it turns on one day for giggles at highway speeds?[HR][/HR]​Did you change out the MAF before or after you had the idle thing fixed?


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

MAF was switched before I fixed the idle (EGR Vac Line). 
Damn...if I reach 7...I'll have to change my sig...AGAIN...


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]MAF was switched before I fixed the idle (EGR Vac Line). 
Damn...if I reach 7...I'll have to change my sig...AGAIN...[HR][/HR]​Maybe it's time to swap the MAF again


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

Are there any competent VW mechanics (non-dealership related) in your area? Like maybe a good tuner or something?
Surely SOMEONE in your area can help you.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Are there any competent VW mechanics (non-dealership related) in your area? Like maybe a good tuner or something?
Surely SOMEONE in your area can help you.[HR][/HR]​He's too cheap for that.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

Yeah there are...the one I go to however has NO clue what it is and he is leaning towards ECU...but like most people...it's simply dart board diagnostics...
w/o the CEL...its hard to tell for sure as a bucking can be created by many a things....
I dunno... if I could afford my 16v swap I'd just do that and say screw this engine...but I'm no where in that $$ ballpark...so this things gotta get fixed one way or another
Rob - This is also true


----------



## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

Have you Tried changing the Spark plugs???
Silly Question I know. but you are running +4's are you not? try going with OEM Plugs


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (PrupleGTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Have you Tried changing the Spark plugs???
Silly Question I know. but you are running +4's are you not? try going with OEM Plugs[HR][/HR]​OEM Bosch Single Sliver Electrode set to OEM spec gap http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I tossed the +4 about 6000K ago


----------



## vwtoby (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

and another one to the list







...wtf causes this..


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwtoby)*

quote:[HR][/HR]and another one to the list







...wtf causes this..[HR][/HR]​It's usually IAC (OBD I) or MAF, and sometimes EGR (also OBD I only).


[Modified by vwgtirob, 1:52 PM 6-9-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

Key word in Rob's post: "Usually"
Moving right along...
Hooked into a VAG-COM today and I have the following bits of info for yas:
2 DTC's found (someone PLEASE tell me in english what they mean):
01265
00586 
Throttle Body Angle @ Idle: 14.6*
Injection On Time @ Idle: 4.10ms
Ignition timing @ Idle: -8.3 --> -11.0
-------
Yes...A VAG-COM can log.
--------
Tested the Engine Speed Sensor Resistance:
.599 K Ohms = 599 Ohms? = Perfect (Valid = 500-700 Ohms)


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]2 DTC's found (someone PLEASE tell me in english what they mean):
01265
00586[HR][/HR]​Can't find those codes anywhere. Anyone else?


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

Try emailing this dude...he might be able to help you:
[email protected]
His Vortex name is 10 bar turbo, real name is Brad. Cool guy, he helped me with my car and he is a real VW tech.


[Modified by Red Baron Golf, 9:17 AM 6-10-2002]


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

Guess what! Time to change your sig again








Have a


----------



## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

Hey...i don't remember if you tried this, but what about disconnecting and cleaning all ground point in the engine compartment? And just generally checking for any corroded or broken or cracked wires?
If you haven't tried his already, you should. My dad, a vw tech, said it's one of the first diagnostic steps for a weird intermittent problem like this.


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: alternator problem? (Firestarter)*

Yes, I was told to do that too...VW's are known for having bad wires, that LOOK okay but are arcing or whatever. There are 2 main bundles to check. The one that is just above the tranny / bellhousing area (and the one that's attached to the distributor is a good candidate too), and the one underneath the fan cover shroud thingy. Might want to pop the rainguard and check the wiring to the ECU as well, couldn't hurt but those ones are most likely okay.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Red Baron Golf)*

I'm pretty sure he went over the grounds in an earlier page of this thread








Also, he can reliably reproduce the problem, so I doubt it could be an electrical problem other than a sensor or the ECU.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (vwgtirob)*

Ok...lets see here..
Red Baron - Email has been sent - Thanks for the lead on him...
Sig has been updated....








Steve (TREK'In) pointed out three ground wires on the block that were corodded a few days ago, so I'm going to shine up those connections soon, and maybe replace the wires.
umm...
So yea, Engine Speed Sensor...time to start a post on this...


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

Ok...email address is bad...
moving right along... Steve (TREK'In) mentioned to me the other day that my clutch could be warped, out of shape...or somethin along those lines...
Could this be a possible cause (118K mi)


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Ok...email address is bad...
moving right along... Steve (TREK'In) mentioned to me the other day that my clutch could be warped, out of shape...or somethin along those lines...
Could this be a possible cause (118K mi)[HR][/HR]​That's could be true. Would also explain the only at low speeds... but not the problem starting. But it could be a compound problem, like with the IAC.


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: alternator problem? (Pagano)*

Hmm...you could try sending 10 bar turbo an IM on Vortex. I suspect his email addy isn't working because he hasn't checked it in awhile.
Other guys to try for advice:
vwtechnician (who I think already replied)
Dr Don Mad Bug's Dad or something like that...
These guys are all VW techs. I'm sure there are more lurking out there.


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: alternator problem? (Red Baron Golf)*

I just thought of something reading another thread... could it be your Fuel Pressure Regulator has gone south? I think that would explain everything. Maybe it's just clogged or something. Or maybe you just need a new one. 
I doubt it would be very much money...


----------



## Biggie (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

________________________________________________________________
Car started instantly...not only did it start instantly, but the idle went to 950, and stopped dead...didn't even rise above the 950 mark...and it sat solid... I let it idle for about 10 minutes, and it did not move more then 20 rpms....
_______________________________________________________________
Re-reading the thread...
I was reading my bentley the other day and it mentioned that Idle should be 800 to 880 RPM, which is non-adjustible. I'm wondering why your idle is now 950?


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I just thought of something reading another thread... could it be your Fuel Pressure Regulator has gone south? I think that would explain everything. Maybe it's just clogged or something. Or maybe you just need a new one. 
I doubt it would be very much money...[HR][/HR]​I think he checked and/or swapped it out in an earlier installment.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Biggie)*

quote:[HR][/HR]________________________________________________________________
Car started instantly...not only did it start instantly, but the idle went to 950, and stopped dead...didn't even rise above the 950 mark...and it sat solid... I let it idle for about 10 minutes, and it did not move more then 20 rpms....
_______________________________________________________________
Re-reading the thread...
I was reading my bentley the other day and it mentioned that Idle should be 800 to 880 RPM, which is non-adjustible. I'm wondering why your idle is now 950?[HR][/HR]​He may be misreading the tach...


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

swapped out FPR's with TREK'In, and still did the same thing. 
My Idle is right at 920-960 according to the read out on the MFA (Neuspeed P-Chip), and VAG-COM.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]swapped out FPR's with TREK'In, and still did the same thing. 
My Idle is right at 920-960 according to the read out on the MFA (Neuspeed P-Chip), and VAG-COM.[HR][/HR]​That's fine considering you've got an OBD I.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

As per another post:
---------------
01265 4312
EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid Valve -N18
Possible cause: N18 (two-way valve) for EGR valve malfunctioning, open circuit and/or wiring has short to Ground (GND)
00586
EGR system control
Possible cause: EGR valve sticks and/or malfunctioning...
---------------
Rob - are these the two you said were expected?



[Modified by Pagano, 11:01 PM 6-12-2002]


----------



## Youngdubber6 (Jan 27, 2002)

*Re: alternator problem? (Red Baron Golf)*

If this helps..I know what the magic bucking is from..you see the intake tube(obd1) see it goes from the filter to the throttlebody..and then there is a tube that molds into the intake tube from the head..this shots oil back down the intake tube...it drips onto your MAF and causes the bucking..you can clean out and change the MAF and it will stop..then start again...only way to fix this is go to VW and buy their special kit for this problem(yes they know about it) or make one yourself. It's really just a oil catch can set-up..trust me..this is the cure for all your problems..


----------



## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: alternator problem? (Youngdubber6)*

Just for chits and giggles, have you put the stock chip back in? Could it be a problem with the Neuspeed? Have you checked all the pulleys and belts? If any of them is dragging, that would cause symptoms like you're seeing. Sounds like you got the problem narrowed down fairly well.
Good luck, and if all else fails, get a TDI. Then you know the thing is supposed to shake a little.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]01265 4312
EGR Vacuum Regulator Solenoid Valve -N18
Possible cause: N18 (two-way valve) for EGR valve malfunctioning, open circuit and/or wiring has short to Ground (GND)
00586
EGR system control
Possible cause: EGR valve sticks and/or malfunctioning...
---------------
Rob - are these the two you said were expected?[HR][/HR]​Yep.







No new info.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

youngdubber6 - good guess...but thats not it, my PCV valve isn't spraying oil all too much, not enough to get to the MAF that is...I cleaned my current MAF about 8K ago...and it's still clean as a whistle...I swapped MAF's off a buddies working car, and the problem still existed...since then, I have rulled out MAF...
also...no point in buying that kit from VW unless you want the clean look...you can simply route it to a silicone coolant hose, that would point downward and have it drip out under the car, or into some sort of catch. ..total cost...about $2 for the hose...
clean97gti - I've checked everything belt wise, and those are fine....I have lost...(read: misplaced) my OEM chip








Rob - Dammit...








edit - better idea for PCV fix
Route a coolant hose off of the PCV valve, and have it go about 4" out and down, at the bottom, put a plug, and when it first comes out, on top, port a 1/4" hole, and put a hose off of that to relieve pressure, then once per oil change...roughly, remove the plug from the hose at the bottom, drain any oil out...replace plug...and continue on your way...
OR buy the part from VW...but I'm a bigger fan (as a few of you know) of fancying stuff to make it work


[Modified by Pagano, 11:33 AM 6-13-2002]


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]WTB - Goat to sacrafice to VW Gods[HR][/HR]​Bwahahahaha!


----------



## bugged (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

Similar problems. AEG 2.0 Beetle. PO and worthless stealer failed to do any Service Bulletins. So grounds are all crappy.
I have perfect idle. No codes. I replace the defective vacuum line to the pot on the left side of the motor (under the cover), and I get occasional stumbles with the AC on. Just when the car goes from idle to driving forward.
Change the plugs (B. Silvers). Idle is fine, stumble is horrible at takeoff, perticularly with the AC on. Throws codes. Replaced the plugs with Denso of the right heat range. Then changed coolant.
Stumble is now worse. Stumbles up to 3000 rpm in several gears.
It goes to the stealer on wed to fix the 4 TSB's they forgot to fix for the past 5 years. I'll see if I can get the codes checked then.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (bugged)*

Sounds like you've got a marginal MAF. They're cheap now; I got mine for $45, brand new.


----------



## GTI RB (Aug 25, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

I didn't even bother to read the entire 7 pages. But i am 90% sure your bucking is being caused by a faulty ground to the ECU or one of its components. My car had the same problems as yours, and it is a 2000 2.0 ODB2. My idle problems were caused by a coolant temp sensor. My bucking problems were caused by my ECU shorting out, i had a socketed chip which sat kind of high so i placed a electrical tape above it on the inside of the ECU. I also found a lot of black gunk on the outside of my ECU, i don't know if the ECU grounds out through its casing of what, but i cleaned it just incase anyways. Ever since i did thoose two things i have had zero problems. Except a couple of months ago i blew my #3 piston, but that had othing to do with any of this.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Rob - Dammit...







[HR][/HR]​Time to drum up a VAG-COM, and drive around a nice empty parking lot with the car bucking (that's BUCKING with a _B_) and logging info.
Fun for the whole family.








I might be able to con someone into buying me a VAG-COM for my b'day next month. Hehehe.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Rob - Dammit...








Time to drum up a VAG-COM, and drive around a nice empty parking lot with the car bucking (that's BUCKING with a _B_) and logging info.
Fun for the whole family.








I might be able to con someone into buying me a VAG-COM for my b'day next month. Hehehe.[HR][/HR]​hmmm...maybe at the next gtg...


----------



## chillysalsa (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I've got to say you have all my sympathies. 
Now that the Canadian climate has given me some warm weather, I'm certain I've fixed my own bucking problem. It only occured in warm, humid weather - and I narrowed it down to a couple bad plug wires, but I spent some time playing with MAF and knock sensors before I found that though... 
I wish your problem was as simple...


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (chillysalsa)*

I wish it was that simple








hehe...I just realized I reached the point (7 pages) when you cannot see the "1" to go to page one...you have to first click on "2" ...then click on "1"....


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Ok...let me take a new approach on this question
What, single part, on a 95 (OBD1) will cause the car to NOT start on the first try in the morning...every morning (moisture in the air Im assuming) but fire right up on the second try...and cause a bucking which SEEMS to be more aparant in heavy rains


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Sorry just saw the distributor cap on page one








My dad the same problem. His was the cap. Wouldnt ever start right away, sometimes wouldnt start after it rained, drove like crap when it was wet out.


[Modified by TooLFan46n2, 10:59 PM 6-18-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (TooLFan46n2)*

...yea that was listed somewhere on page 1


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Ok...let me take a new approach on this question
What, single part, on a 95 (OBD1) will cause the car to NOT start on the first try in the morning...every morning (moisture in the air Im assuming) but fire right up on the second try...and cause a bucking which SEEMS to be more aparant in heavy rains[HR][/HR]​I know the starting problem on Mk4s occurs when the driver's side door switch goes bad; when you open the driver's side door, the fuel pump activates for a second or two in order to pressurize the fuel system prior to startup (so there's fuel available while cranking). Weird symptom of a bad door switch, eh?








I'll study the Bentley a little tonight and see if I get any insights. I'm still a little baked, so it should be fun


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

yea that is rather f'ed up...
Thanks for the help so far guys....but this is truely getting to me...
Sucks to turn the car over every morning for twice as long as normal...only to have it die before it reaches its idle...then turn it again...like within a second or two of it dieing...and having it fire right on up...
...THEN...the bucking...the mo-fo bucking...


----------



## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Ok...let me take a new approach on this question
What, single part, on a 95 (OBD1) will cause the car to NOT start on the first try in the morning...every morning (moisture in the air Im assuming) but fire right up on the second try...and cause a bucking which SEEMS to be more aparant in heavy rains[HR][/HR]​I know you have probably checked the coil, but here is an idea. Move the coil to another location. On mine (OBD2) the coil is right underneath the rain gutter. My car always died out in heavy rain and I found the problem to be water dripping out of the rain gutter at just the perfect spot to get onto the wire from coil to distributor. Move the coil somewhere else or make some type of plastic shield. Maybe add a few non-metal spacers between the coil and where it mounts. Maybe its grounding out there somehow. Do you think its electrical in nature or mechanical? I hate guessing about these damn things...very frustrating








I have a great fix for all the problems. 
1. Call insurance agent and put full coverage on the car.
2. Have someone steal car and torch it.
3. You get a new car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BJMRGTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Not that this post willl help you out any, but my 97 VR6 (OBD2) stutters and dies out at low RPM's. though not in conjunction.
Some days, when I try and start my car, it sounds as if it starts then cuts out right away. it will do this until I keep the gas pedal down (i know this is bad for fuel injected cars, but that's the only way to get it going) Then I'll be driving around and if I come to a stop and the RPM's continue dropping (as if I'm revving my engine) then it'll die/stall, unless I keep a foot on the gas.
On other occasions, such as this morning, my car stutters like I can't drive a stick shift---I mean really throwing me back--then it'll run hard and strong for a while then when I get to 40-50 MPH, it'll feel like I lifted my foot off the gas then normal, then no gas/normal, etc.
the bad thing is, they don't seem to happen together, it is one or the other. Someone said it is probably my Throttle body that went bad. Not sure if anyone here can offer a suggestion or not since mine is VR6, but thought I'd share my experience with you. 
Whew! this has become quite a long Post!


----------



## ZUMJETTA3 (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (BJMRGTIVR6)*

Well, I'm in the same situation here. My '95 Jetta is doing the studdering thing. My dub has been in and out of garages and I have replaced almost as much as you guys. So this time, my car is going into the shop while I'm on vacation next week and I'm prepared. I printed this whole string out (73 pages) and I'm handing it to my mechanic, personally, at his house, tonight. My big concern is that since it is not a constant thing, I keep thinking we fixed it.







I'll update with the results. I wonder if there is a differance between if it was Hecho en Mexico or Gemacht im Deutchland?


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (ZUMJETTA3)*

...this is 73 pages when printed?!?!?! WOW!!!
...time to update sig again...
Let me know what your mechanic says...I'm interested...my mechanic has hit a roadblock...so I'm on my own at this end...


----------



## CorradoMarkio (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

my car sometimes takes a minute of cranking, waiting, cranking, waiting, cranking, waiting... before it finally starts up and sputters and even then sometimes dies after 10 seconds. during these times, the first 2 minutes are touch and go. under 2k rpm, the idle is really sketchy and pushing on the gas basically doesn't do anything. roller coaster idle, and it almost sounds like it's about to stall. lights dim and the little LED for battery comes on during the idle 'slumps' 
this may be a different problem, but i just thought i'd mention it. i'm still trying to figure out where to start, and will probably try some of the things in the last 8 pages.


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (CorradoMarkio)*

I think you guys have cursed my car!! I'm just starting to notice that the car doesn't completely willingly start in the mornings....and I notice the oil pressure light stays on for a bit. 
Could you problem be the oil pump?? Apparently mine could be on it's way out. I'm not going to wait around for it to die either!


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

Oil pump crossed my mind a few times....though, I figured that if the pump is causing the bucking then maybe I would see the light flicker...but nothing..
How would this effect cold starts? not enough pressure?
I got the garage last night...started the car in the AM...fired up on the first try (lil longer then normal...but started on the first time)
So morning humidity (outside) is definatly effecting my cars starting ability. as EVERY morning it takes two starts


----------



## Biggie (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Try putting a dehumidifier in the garage and see what happens. A humidity meter would be usefull to. You may be on to something here...


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I strongly, strongly doubt it's oil pressure. But with that said...
You said it might be humidity-related... I still have a feeling that the cold-start problem and the bucking are unrelated... maybe your cold-start problem is actually a spark problem... cracked coil, bad plug wire covers, something like that...


----------



## vento III (May 2, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (ZUMJETTA3)*

I have had the same problem with bucking at low rpm.One problem I fixed was the intake gasket waas sucking,since I have replaced it no more bucking.I still have a problem with the idlewhen you hit the gas it hangs for a split second then rests at normal.Another thing I am going to do is replace the clamps on the thing tat is directly behind tha IAC (it is black plastic with 2 rubber molded hoses going into it).My buddies 94 2.o was stalling for no reason we were looking under the hood while it was running and you can move that around and hear air leaking.So replaced all four of the factory clamps with hose clamps and so far it hasn't stalled.Hope this might help someone.And if you find anything out would appreciate the extra info.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vento III)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have had the same problem with bucking at low rpm.One problem I fixed was the intake gasket waas sucking,since I have replaced it no more bucking.I still have a problem with the idlewhen you hit the gas it hangs for a split second then rests at normal.Another thing I am going to do is replace the clamps on the thing tat is directly behind tha IAC (it is black plastic with 2 rubber molded hoses going into it).My buddies 94 2.o was stalling for no reason we were looking under the hood while it was running and you can move that around and hear air leaking.So replaced all four of the factory clamps with hose clamps and so far it hasn't stalled.Hope this might help someone.And if you find anything out would appreciate the extra info.[HR][/HR]​I've replaced that gasket....my idle does that too when I'm at idle...tap it...then let it go back it has that little hang...I thought that is normal








As for that thing in the back....dont bother...take it off, and place a piece of coolant hose to connect the IAC and intake manifold...all it is is a muffler....I took mine off, noticed not one bit of difference.


----------



## ZUMJETTA3 (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I took the muffler off too, no differant but I did put it back on once I figured that it did nothing. 
Oh by the way, when I handed my mechanic the print out (yes it really was 73 pages and is probably more now) he just stared at it and asked if he is going to like the ending. I just hope I like the ending but if it comes down to it, I'll just get another dub and just keep this one as a pet project to end this issue once and for all.


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Is your MAF the hot-wire or film type? At least I think those were the two types. IIRC, they switched somewhere around 94-95 due to vibration issues.


----------



## mattwebster77 (Apr 9, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Is your A/C on? 
I had an issue with my 99 jetta, the A/C pressure switch went bad and it was cycleing my A/C compressor causing power loss. 
just a guess.....


----------



## 95jetta2.0 (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

well you posted in my topic of this type , so im posting in yours...
add another car to the list.. im thinking i will sell this thing and buy a vr6.


----------



## krummenp (Jun 21, 2002)

probably not related, but had a really bad idle problem with my '94 ABA I replaced a bunch of crap, including the distributor. turns out it was a split in the hose that runs from the air box to the throttle body. 
Dealer wanted $75+ for the hose and they'd have to ship it in, got an ABD Big Bore intake for $95 (used my SCCA discount) instead and installed it that day. I had to replace the breather mushroom thing on top of the valve cover as I managed crack it off the nipple that goes into the cover. I managed to drop the nipple down inside the valve cover!








Looking at the hose I never saw the crack, it was only once I pulled the hose and really squeezed on it and looked at each of the pleats that I was able to find the 2"+ split in it. It was causing it vaccum leak and the compute couldn't compute for it since it was downstream of the Air Mass Meter. Once I'd give the car some gas it would idle, but without gassing it, it would stumble and almost die.
I pulled the intake and associated bits, found out that my EGR valve was only held on by one bolt!! Instead of 2 like it's supposed to be. My EGR passages were all crapped up to I scraped them clean and cleaned them good with carb cleaner.
have you tried using an unlit propane jet to see if you have a leak in your intake system somewhere? get a propane jet from Home Depot, hook it up and turn the gas on but DON"T LIGHT IT! then bring the nozzle near the intake hoses and walk your way through the system. You'll know if you find a vacuum leak because the car will start to run better/faster because it's pulling in the propane and burning it. You can use this to find many/most vacuum leaks in your intake system.
Hope this is helpful, remember DON"T LIGHT THE PROPANE JET and don' t have it cranked on high, just be careful and go slowly.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (krummenp)*

yep, I never use the AC except in humid conditions when the car is fogging up on the inside...then I turn it on long enough to rid the humidity.
lemme see.... EGR..cleaned that sucker out (only thing I dont recall cleaning was the port going to the EGR in the intake manifold...I'll get at that soon enough)
That propane thing doesn't sound like a bad idea...nor does it sound like a great idea...somethin about pumpin propane gas into my engine bay...plus propane is a heavy gas, so it will fall right down to my nice hot down pipe.


----------



## ZUMJETTA3 (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Okay, so today was very hot out and my dub got the fitz again. But this time when I got where I needed to go, se just died on me. I started it up and out it went. I had to open the hood and let her cool down awhile until she drove again. Then it was all studders. Well, I'm going on vacation so I hope my mechanic read this whole string after I printed it and gave it to him. Needless to say the car is going to the shop while I'm away. I have a feeling that one day, someone will read this string and say, "here is the answer to all the headaches" and hopefully that day comes before WaterFest.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (ZUMJETTA3)*

in the back of my head....I keep thinking it's probally a $10 part...and a 5 minute job...
uhmmm updates...updates..updates
lets see..
-Cleaned the engine block ground connections (all shiny now)
-Replaced the ground going to the hood (yep...opened hood too far...tore wire in half)








-Now I'm questioning the integrity of the ignition coil ground wire as it's the same as that hood one...hmm...
-Cleaned the K&N today
-Lil more spring cleanin in the engine bay
-Relocated the horn to behind fogs/dummy covers (ram intake in development)
-Removed a few plastic thingys here and there from the airbox that were left on
-Cleaned Low press and high press oil switches using TB cleaner...no clue if that did anything (though I think the oil light stopped blinking with the key in the 'ON' position, car not running...)
...think thats it since my last check-in...
Got a new set of bosch wires on order with GAP...should have those either wednesday or thursday...
I took off of work this week (WOO-HOO)...so I plan on making my engine bay immaculate...and replacing parts here and there as needed, cleaning parts...etc so forth...basically what I've BEEN doing...only now I'll have full days to work on my car.
Plus I'll have time to rig a PCV fix, and build this ram air setup....
annnnnnnd...it still bucks...


----------



## dsamj (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well I suppose I might as well join in the fun as well--my new (to me) '94 GTI does exactly what you describe as far as bucking, but is quite selective about it. When I bought the car, it bucked _always_, but not severely, and I just accepted it as "one of those volkswagen things." A few days after I bought it, a couple of friends and I were changing my oil, plugs, cap and rotor...just a basic tune-up, and one of my friends spotted a frayed vaccuum line running from a small circular metal piece just to the right of the air-box (while facing the engine from the front) to the side of the intake manifold (there are two vaccuum ports where it connects to, this particular line connected to the top port, I believe the other port was used by a line controlling the hot air intake valve in the air-box). Anyway, my friend thought it would be a fantastic idea to cut the frayed section off of this line, of course, before measuring to make sure there was enough left to reconnect it. Needless to say, the line would not reach both ports, and attempts to start the car without the line connected resulted in SEVERE bucking. I made a quick trip to a local parts shop and picked up a small piece of vaccuum line and made a clean connection between that silver part and the intake manifold, and the bucking completely dissapeared. In fact, the entire car ran a lot more smoothely. Does anyone know what that silver part is that I'm talking about? Anyway, last weekend I made a little road trip (approx 250km each way) and after getting off the highway while driving for at least 30 minutes, my car would buck pretty badly in all gears, and worse at lower RPM, and my idle would jump around quite a bit. If I shut the car off for a couple of minutes and turned it back on, the bucking would be gone and the idle was fine. Last night I had a few minutes to spare so I cleaned out the throttle body and did a few other minor things I've been meaning to do (removed the snorkle from my airbox, disconnected the hot air intake valve, cleaned up the MAF sensor a bit) and after it was all put back together I started the car to find my idle hovering around 1100-1200, and I noticed the car was quite a bit louder. ????? What's going on? On a possibly unrelated note, but maybe there's a connection somewhere, my car sputters a little bit when reving down, especially in low RPM's, it almost sounds like backfire, but it's definitely not full blown backfire. Any ideas? Anyway, thought I'd offer up my scenario as well.
Cheers,
Sam


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (dsamj)*

From your description it sounds like what you replaced was one of the EGR vacuum lines, which would also certainly explain bucking.
You should try cleaning out your IAC. It should smooth out your idle.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (dsamj)*

well...it seems like you have my mystery problem's cousin on your hands
As for the silver thing...thast your FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator). It determines how much pressure is being pushed into the fuel rail (black piece that goes from one end of the manifold to the other end (injectors plug into this).
W/O vacuum going to it...your car will run like poop


----------



## dsamj (Jun 18, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

What and where is the "IAC". Sorry if that's a really dumb question.
Also, is carb cleaner adequate for cleaning it?
Sam


----------



## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well, I don't know if misery really loves company, but...it sounds like my 95 Golf has the same problem.
My car also has developed an odd hesitating problem. We were using it every day until a few months ago, and it had been running fine. It would hesitate sometimes at start when it was really wet or rainy, but it would go away a few minutes after start up. Now, when starting cold, it runs fine for a minute or two, and then begins to buck and hesitate. Until warmed up a bit it will even stall. Once warmed it goes normally under hard acceleration, with no sign of a miss of hesitation, but when cruising at a steady speed, it hesitates again. The best way I can describe it is that it feels like I am lugging in too low a gear, but I am not.
Unlike you, who I have read has changed a ton of stuff, I have only changed spark plugs, cap and rotor, changed air filter, all which were overdue, with no change. 
To make things even stranger, after taking the car for a test drive after changing some bits, it still bucked, until I made a hard, fast left turn...the hesitation was gone. It remained fine for about ½ and hour, when I made another quick turn and it returned. On another occasion, I noticed that the round plastic thing on top of the valve cover (opposite end from fill cap) was loose. The gasket had torn, so I replaced it. After doing this, the car ran fine for about 1 hour, and then, as I made a hard right turn, it started hesitating again.
I have pulled off and cleaned every electrical contact and connector I can find to no avail. 
I also, on the advice of someone, pulled off the oxygen sensor wires. It did not change anything, except the check engine light came on. 
I wimped out today and took it to the dealer. They said so many codes were in history, they reset it. The one that kept re-lighting was something to do with the idle speed mechanism (???)
The dealer told me that there is so much wrong with it that they don't feel it is worth fixing!
I can't believe this. While this hestitating/bucking makes it difficult to drive, in the periods when this problem mysteriously vanishes, the damn thing runs great. It idles smoothly and quietly. The car is in good shape other wise...it doesn't seem ready for the scrap heap.
I don't know where to go from here. Anyone want to buy a cheap fixer-upper?
I'll keep reading to see if I can figure this out. I wish you luck!
Tony


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

Sounds like "Idle Adaptation At Limit," which is caused by a few easy-to-fix things.


----------



## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

Although you may have stated these "easy to fix things" in a prior post, could you restate them or tell me where to look? I am sitting here in disbelief that the dealer says the car is not worth fixing.








I can't let it go with out trying a few things.
Thanks in advance...Tony


----------



## flyingphil1 (Jun 3, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

My jetta 2.0 started givin' me trouble around 115k. I chipped it and the bucking stopped. For the cold start problem, well, I haven't got a clue. New plugs, wires, cap @ rotor, cleaned everything you guy's said to... I'm stumped! Hope to get the problem fixed before I get my cam next week. Got new pics of my booted golf. Will post soon. (Wife got in a crash, had a GTI front end put in and had the euro lip primed, sanded and painted to match the car. wow.)


----------



## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

As I said in my last post regarding a problem similar to the one posted here, I wimped out and brought my car to the dealer. I picked it up today, as they said it wasn't worth fixing. Here is what the paperwork said:
verified condition, performed necessary checks tests and inspections, performed fault code retreival, multiple fault codes recorded, necessary to purge memory, run vehicle, checked fault codes that reoccurred. (00533-Idle Speeed Regulation) Performed additional diagnostic testing on items related to recorded fault coee, all testing indicates ECM is at fault (Elect Erratic), Control module requires replacement, in addition, engine harness grounds are corroded, once those items are replaced or repaired additional testing and repairs may be required, in our opinion, repairs may well exceed value of vehicle.
So that is the sad story. Maybe some of the others with similar problems can learn something from this info.
I am still shocked that this car, which runs perfect between these bouts of hesitating, is terminal! 
I have no reason to doubt what the dealer says, but I am wondering if there is anything I could try before throwing in the towel on this. It is understandable that the dealer cannot or will not perform compromise type fixes, but I am wondering if there is something I could try to see if aI can get a few more months out of this thing.
Any ideas??








Tony


----------



## Biggie (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

Well, you can clean the ground contacts yourself. A dremel with a brass or steel wheel tool may help. 
Perhaps you should remove your ECU and have a look at the contacts and inside the module for any problems. Try looking for a used ECU at a local junk yard.


----------



## dailydriver (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Biggie)*

Just to point out that this seems to be a pretty common problem, and to let you know that I'm following this thread hoping for a happy ending - I too have had this exact problem. Once. 95 Golf 2.0, 116k. Stuck in Chicago traffic on a hot stormy day (read: very high humidity) mine started doing the exact same bucking. I haven't owned this car for long so I had no idea where to even begin looking. Pulled into a gas station and started checking for anything obvious - loose vacuum lines, arcing of plug wires, etc. Didn't find anything. Shut the car off and restarted and it was fine for the rest of the trip and has not occured again, but I now have no doubt that it will, after reading this thread. Since I'm not currently experiencing any problems, I can't help with the hunt, but I'll certainly be interested to finally find out what the problem is. Definitely seems to be humidity/ moisture related though. Best of luck. All of us "buckers" are rooting for you!








Just did a quick search and found some info that is related to A2 16V cars, but some of the tips seem like they would transfer over to this issue:
"The legendary idle/bucking problems: If your motronic car starts to idle funny, first thing you should do is go to the dealership, and make sure all the recalls have been fixed. Some cars did have recalls on computer wiring harnesses. Next, It seems that corrosion at the electrical connectors around the engine are to blame for the majority of these idling problems. Go to a good electronics store/warehouse, and get a can of Deoxit contact enhancer spray. It's about $14. Spray the inside of every electrical connector under the hood. The most important ones are the ones around the fuel distributor, one next to the firewall (potentiometer), one on the engine side (differential pressure regulator), and two under the intake boot (emmissions related). Other things that cause erratic idling are: 
the A/C hoses that run along the passenger side fender, next to the fuel distributor. There is an electrical connector on the side of the fuel distributor and the A/C hoses usually end up resting on it. This is not good. Get zip ties and zip tie the hoses so they do not rest on this connector. 
Check for a small tear underneath the intake boot. Remove it completely to inspect it. This is a very common occurence. Any sort of vacuum leak can cause idling problems. 
A failing fuel pre-pump. They're $60 bucks and take 20 minutes to replace. 
A bad idle switch. The idle switch is located on the throttle body, and will cause idling problems if it doesn't engage and/or if it fails"
-T. (fingers crossed)


[Modified by dailydriver, 5:46 PM 6-26-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (dailydriver)*

I got good news...I got bad news...
Good news:
aebad: The dealership you go to consists of a bunch of fools... There is no way...in HELL that an ECU/ECM/Cars' PC would be worth more then the value of the car....hell you an put in a stand alone system for under 3grand. Go to a few local Euro car specialists and ask if they can get ECM's. I know personally, I can get one for under $300...
Bad News:
I think my problem IS the ECM... (DAMMIT).... why do I figure this???
Well, as I have said...the car runs a helluva lot worse in the rain...moist conditions...all that fun stuff....so I'm looking under the hood the other day, to find that the rain tray gasket/seal where it meets the windshield has a 6" tare where it is essentially WIDE open for water to pour on in...








I just ordered a few parts from the local dealership...called back the next day and ordered both the left and right side of this. 
However...at last inspection, the ECU was in perfect condition (sure...the outside case was a hair oxydized)....other then that, the innerds were immaculate...
Further news:
Just to confirm...I got a new set of plug wires in....didn't change much


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## Biggie (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Pagano:
Doesn't the ECU have a rubber gasket around the lid? I don't see how water on the ECU case would affect it internally unless it's a bad seal and is leaking. You might want to try some silicone grease.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Biggie)*

hummm...true true...
OK...how about the dialectic grease...is that safe to use on a harness where there are many pins...or is this stuff conductive..and will it bridge many pins???


----------



## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

No, dielectric grease isn't conductive. It is safe to use around electricity. You are supposed to use it when installing spark plug wires. Dielectric grease keeps water and corrosion out.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Clean97GTi)*

I've only used it on spark plugs before never a harness...
Knowing this...it IS safe to just schmeer it all over the harness for the ECU to get a more positive connection and keep out humidity
not for nothing...I'm almost positive it's an electrical problem SOMEWHERE along the lines....
Today started as a perfect summer day...then it became very humid...and started to rain..
When I started the car (11:30AM) it fired right up, and ran decent...light bucking, kinda rare....humidity set in...rain came...drove home around 1:00 car was bucking harder, and more often.
Also... yesterday, the ground for my radio antenna (flat black wire that connects to the hood on the drivers side)...(at least thats what I think it is)...yeah...that snapped in half...so I replaced that with 16AWG wire. The wire that snapped is the SAME wire used to ground the ignition coil to the head. Now...not for nothing...but isn't the head a fairly crappy ground considering it's aluminum??? Furthermore, I'd imagine that wire is nearing the end of it's life..
I should have the new rain trays in hands tomorrow, so I plan on replacing that ground wire while I'm in there, and possibly relocating it to someplace else.


----------



## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I should have the new rain trays in hands tomorrow, so I plan on replacing that ground wire while I'm in there, and possibly relocating it to someplace else.[HR][/HR]​Curious, how much were the rain trays? I put a 4 inch crack on the left side of mine, all this talk of corroding connectors makes me want to replace it.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Aluminum is a good conductor, especially when the conductor is as thick as your engine's head. And what do you think works as the other connection to the plug, anyway.


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

Aluminum is a decent conductor, but there are other things that are better...like iron, copper, gold, people...etc. Have you done a compression test on the motor? My thinking is that if the muffler bearings are getting a little burnt, that would cause your piston return springs to over-extend and possibly cause the stuttering and hard starts that you've got.







Seriously though, have you done a compression test?


----------



## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Clean97GTi)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Aluminum is a decent conductor, but there are other things that are better...like iron, copper, gold, people...etc. Have you done a compression test on the motor?[HR][/HR]​Iron and people are not better conductors than Al. In fact, Al is used for overhead high-tension power lines.
Conductivity in order: Silver, Copper, Gold, Aluminum, Magnesium
Anything not in that list is less conductive than those.


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## GameDay (Sep 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

Tired of your A3's? Looking for a cheap, high mileage A3 5 speed...straight, sunroof, power windows.







Email me at [email protected] please.
*But*, before you guys sell your great cars to me, someone please replace their EGR valve. It's a reach, and I'm no mechanice, but a gut feel tells me it _might_ be time to replace your EGR valve.
Had some intermittent problems with a 94 Camry where the car would die. My brother-in-law who is a mechanic could never duplicate the problem when testing, and of course, neither could I. Took it to Toyota 2 times and they couldn't find the problem...almost traded in a great car...then on a hunch, had them replace the EGR valve (thank you internet!)...and whammo...perfectly great Camry...with no more problems/stalling.
I, of course, want a cheap A3, but if this can solve your problem, and still get me a clean, high mile A3, I'd still be happy!








Good Luck and keep me posted








GameDay
PS - to me, cleaning and replacing the EGR valve are 2 totally different things...


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## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
Iron and people are not better conductors than Al. In fact, Al is used for overhead high-tension power lines.
Conductivity in order: Silver, Copper, Gold, Aluminum, Magnesium
[HR][/HR]​Well, I got a couple right. Besides, when a person gets a hold of some decent current, do you really think they notice that they're being shocked by Al or Cu wires? I don't








Time to update your sig. again.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (GameDay)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Tired of your A3's? Looking for a cheap, high mileage A3 5 speed...straight, sunroof, power windows.







Email me at [email protected] please.
*But*, before you guys sell your great cars to me, someone please replace their EGR valve. It's a reach, and I'm no mechanice, but a gut feel tells me it _might_ be time to replace your EGR valve.
Had some intermittent problems with a 94 Camry where the car would die. My brother-in-law who is a mechanic could never duplicate the problem when testing, and of course, neither could I. Took it to Toyota 2 times and they couldn't find the problem...almost traded in a great car...then on a hunch, had them replace the EGR valve (thank you internet!)...and whammo...perfectly great Camry...with no more problems/stalling.
I, of course, want a cheap A3, but if this can solve your problem, and still get me a clean, high mile A3, I'd still be happy!








Good Luck and keep me posted








GameDay
PS - to me, cleaning and replacing the EGR valve are 2 totally different things...[HR][/HR]​You haven't read the thread very well. I give you a C- for reading comprehension.


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

I read my Haynes manual last night and it suggests that it's a fueling problem, but I think he's already addressed that...


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (GameDay)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Tired of your A3's?[HR][/HR]​...not even close...
I may have to look into that comp test....and I may have to update my sig again...


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## ZUMJETTA3 (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I for one don't think it has to do with the humidity. I was runing into the problem when it was just dry heat. Now that I think of it, I also had the bucking several times right out of my parking lot at 6:00am. The Poconos aint that hot at 6:00am except for lately. Needless to say, I'm back from vacation. Bad news is that my dub is still in the shop. The mechanic was able to duplicate the problem ona road test but he will need more time to figure it out. He was the one that took care of my previous fixes (new distributer, wires, plugs, ect ect). I hope to hear from him after the holiday.


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## GtiGyver (Mar 22, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (ZUMJETTA3)*

maybe your ECU is faulty, seems like the only thing that hasn't been tested or replaced.


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (gti_8v)*

Pagano I think you're going to have to do a recap to show what you've checked and the results. this thread is so bloody long its hard to keep track of what you've done !!

Welcome to Page 9 by the way !!!


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## GameDay (Sep 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

I second the motion by PurpleGTI!
GTIRob, I give myself a C- as well !







ok, I admit it, I skimmed the posts after the 3rd page (shh...actually skipped 4-7, and jumped to 8-9). 
I'm actually getting an A3, and I'm sure I'll run across this esp. on a high mileage one, so let's try to solve this!








Thanks!
GameDay
PS - Anyone wanna trade their Jetta's for a 91 Corrado G60 straight up? (5 sp)


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (GameDay)*

hehe...so should I list what I HAVE done...or HAVENT? lol
Heres the current list to the best of my ability (and a copy from my first post on page 1)
Clean TB
Battery
MAF
Clean IAC
Replace Ground Wire Connection on Ignition Coil
Fuel Filter
Wires
Cap
Rotor
O2 Sensor
Throttle Position Sensor
Fuel Pump
Injector O-Rings
Plugs
Cleaned EGR and EGR Probe Sensor
ECU Power Relay
FPR Vac Line
EGR Vac Line + many others (about 4 feet worth of vac line is new)
I cannot think of anything else off the top of my head
I've priced out a few used ECU's for really inexpensive price. So I'm going to be running my stock chip for a few days...then see if it changes any...if so...I'll just trash my P-Chip and score a GIAC. If nothing changes...I'm going to try and swap ECU's with a buddy for a few days see if anything changes...if so...I'll be buying a new ECU.
Still need to look into a comp test...
Oh...btw...it's hot as hell in Jersey right now...85+ the past week. It has bucked every day, I am unsure of the humidity levels...but my car has been lounging in the garage this week as well, and has started every morning...though I'm sure if it was outside it wouldn't start.


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

TOO CRAZY!
I just read the entire thread... for the love of god! It took me well over an hour. I don't know all these acronyms you've been using, and I too (surprised?) had this same problem with my '95 2.0 OBD I , except its gone away for a while now. My mechanic told me it was that damn thing that connects all the wires from the engine stuff to the ecu (i'm no mechanic, obviously - but i CAN learn fast!!







) its a black one... someone mentioned that there's a black one and a newer grey one, the grey one being better... is this the piece he/she was talking about? Anyway I had sprayed some silicon spray over it when it was dry and that seems to have helped. I haven't had the problem since, and i've driven the car in *inches* of water on several occasions, purposely even, just to see what would happen. However this thread interests me greatly because I have a tiring engine (nearly 186k km's - probably about as much in miles as yours pagano) and I need to clean it up because I love my A3, and i don't wanna get rid of it... yet.
Thanks for your dedication and your continuing stream of info/feedback/results/updates/etc... Now I have to reread this thread because I forgot what went on in the first 3-4 pages! My biggest fear is popping in a cam, chip at this mileage and the worst possible outcome becoming a reality...
You mentioned somewhere, god knows where at this point, something about a possible forced air induction setup scooping air from the bumper, where the fog lights are... Fill us (me) in on your thoughts as I'm looking into the same. I just don't see the point of putting in a P-flo (or the like) and having it suck in hot air... or that added noise... I don't like noise just for the sake of noise.
To all that have contributed to this post...














's to you if ever I bump into you guys, this thread is one definite piece of reference for anyone with this engine. It appears that invariably, it will occur to all 2.0's
I'm inspired, Gone to canadian tire to buy a bentley manual


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

The thing you are referring to is RELAY 109. The black ones are no good, the newer ones are gray, and if you take your black one into the dealer, the part number on it has been superseded by the new one.
This is one of the items to check if you car is turning over, but not starting. Unfortunately, this isn't the case with Pagano's car.
As for the ECU, if you've ever looked at the connection, it's actually quite a good beefy connector, and the seal seems to be quite good on it (assuming that you put it back properly after chipping it). But hey, stranger things have happened. spitpilot had his just die, for no reason.


----------



## 94jettaGL (Jun 13, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Hi,
Seems like just about every A3 2.0 owner had the bucking at low rpms problem.
Here is my experience with it:
I had the bucking problem when accelerating at low rpms (1500-2200) on my
'94 jetta GL with and without the A/C on. The problem was occuring after the
car had reached operating temp. The car then had about 170 Kmiles. My mechanic found the problem to be the noise damper attached to the Idle Air Control (IAC) valve and the intake manifold. He also cleaned the IAC when he had it out...The problem did not occur for almost a year, until last Monday at 187 Kmiles!! I'm going to clean the IAC over the weekend and see what happens! If it reoccurs I'll take it in and have it checked. I'll keep you guys posted...


----------



## Biggie (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (94jettaGL)*

I'm gonna clean my IAC sometime soon too. What are you using to clean it with?


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Biggie)*

Use throttle body cleaner to clean the IAC. For the muffler, I simply removed mine, and put a silicone coolant hose in it's place.
edit -
oh yea...an update








I pulled the ECU and swapped back in my oem chip...results? It still bucked (booooo!). So now I need to acquire an OBD1 ECU to swap with for a day or so...I think I can score one on Monday from a guy I work with. So I'll see how that goes.
ECU swaps are just that...right? I can just pop mine out, and trade with him, as long as we're both OBD1


[Modified by Pagano, 6:55 PM 7-5-2002]


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Yep, but you should try to find one with the same ECU code, although I read here that a guy swapped in a chip that wasn't designed for his car and it worked fine, so who knows.


----------



## chillysalsa (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well, I posted a couple pages back regarding the bucking problem on my '93 Jetta. I changed the plugs/wires/cap (which were found to be in bad shape) at 185,000km. The bucking problem went away for about 4,000km, and then, 3 nights ago, it was a warm 30ºC outside, and I was stuck in traffic in Toronto's Chinatown. The temp gauge indicated 100ºC, and the A/C was on. The bucking started again! I knew the problem couldn't be that simple...
I tried turning the A/C off, and it seemed to subside, but the traffic also started clearing up, so the airflow cooled off the engine back to the usual 80-90ºC. 
I've swapped the MAF sensor the day after with the one from my dad's '99 A3, but I don't expect much to change. The knock sensor has also been swapped, with no affect. My dad is a mechanic with a lot of experience with VWs, but he can't figure out what's going on. We have a strong feeling that heat is affecting electrical / computer system, causing some component somewhere to fail. 
Well, we will keep trying to solve this by swapping parts from his trouble-free car until we nail this down. There aren't many options though, because his is OBDII... I think we'll take a look at the IAC next, as mentioned above. Will keep you posted if we make ANY progress. 
Maybe with enough people working on this, we'll stumble upon something... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## bugged (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (chillysalsa)*

Bucking. Worst with Bosch copper plugs, warm engine, light lugging/low rpm. Cleaned MAF, changed plugs to denso, cleaned TB. Smoothed it out a bit still bad stumble. 
2.0 AEG Plug wire was bad, and the coil pack had a crack on the terminal. Replaced wires, fixed.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Yep, but you should try to find one with the same ECU code, although I read here that a guy swapped in a chip that wasn't designed for his car and it worked fine, so who knows.[HR][/HR]​But he's going to be swapping the whole bloody ECU, so it's a plug-n-chug affair.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

ahhhh another week....I'll try and get a hold of that ECU tomorrow kinda forgot today...oh well


----------



## ZUMJETTA3 (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I can't wait to hear the results of the ECU swap. My mechanic called and asked if he can have the car for 3 more days because it is still doing the same thing. Grrrrr


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## turboG60 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I'm a little late reading this port I think. My 97 8v gti does this. I don't think it does it in first, but any other gear just driving like normal betweek 1500-2000ish it bucks. If I floor it it never happens. I was thinking cat. But now I don't know. Another guy told me it could be my temp sensor????????? what the [email protected]#$. My car has 127K on it and has never needed any thing. I have a chip, exhaust, cam you know all the bolt ons. I was goig to replace the fuel filter as well but you've been there done that. I guess I will just floor it everywhere I go. Also this just started when the weater got hot. Did yours do this in the winter as well?


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## chillysalsa (Jan 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (turboG60)*

quote:[HR][/HR]... My 97 8v gti does this. I don't think it does it in first, but any other gear just driving like normal betweek 1500-2000ish it bucks. If I floor it it never happens. ... this just started when the weater got hot.[HR][/HR]​That seems to be another commonality, at least in my case: flooring it will smooth it out, it never happened in the winter, and it never does it in first gear.


----------



## Clean97GTi (Nov 28, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (chillysalsa)*

Pagano, did you get a chance to do a compression test yet? The reason I ask is that I did a little reading about a problem with 3rd gen. Toyota Supras. They were notorious for having head gasket problems. The head wouldn't be torqued down right and it would not let the gasket seat correctly. Symptoms match yours fairly well; Hard starting, hesitation on acceleration, Stalling. At any rate I was just curious as to whether or not you'd given it any thought.


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## turboG60 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (chillysalsa)*

time for a recall


----------



## Bill95GL (Sep 5, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (bugged)*

This may be a dumb question but what's an AEG Plug wire?


----------



## turbotrixie (Jun 22, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Bill95GL)*

Try cleaning the TB again, or even replacing it...workied for me, I had the same probalem in my mk4 2.0... bucking, weird idle, almost felt like it was out of gas a few times...just a suggestion...I don't know if anyone else said it yet, but it's not on your list (replacing it that is)...
I got mine done at 37k...if you've never had it replaced, may be a great next attempt at making your car run right again!!!
good luck...hope everything works out for you!


----------



## BlackJettaGTMk3 (Jul 11, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (turbotrixie)*

I've been reading this thread for some time now, as my Jettas been having the same issues! Hesitation, bucking and some rough starts. I took it into the dealer (I am a n00b), Sunday, and they told me that it wasnt anything more than a worn timing belt that had slipped, and some ignition component problems. In all, they replaced the timing belt, drive belt, tensioner, distributor cap, ignition rotor and the plugs. Total cost. . . . $600. I am at. . .67k miles now, I thought the timing belt was supposed to last at least 100k. .


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## ZUMJETTA3 (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (BlackJettaGTMk3)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I've been reading this thread for some time now, as my Jettas been having the same issues! Hesitation, bucking and some rough starts. I took it into the dealer (I am a n00b), Sunday, and they told me that it wasnt anything more than a worn timing belt that had slipped, and some ignition component problems. In all, they replaced the timing belt, drive belt, tensioner, distributor cap, ignition rotor and the plugs. Total cost. . . . $600. I am at. . .67k miles now, I thought the timing belt was supposed to last at least 100k. . [HR][/HR]​I've had all that done already (timing belt, drive belt, tensioner, distributor cap, ignition rotor and the plugs). The timing belt for me held fine for 134k and could have gone longer. Guess what....still have the bucking. I think Pagano is onto something with the ECU. I'm starting to think if it isn't that, I don't know what is left to check. At least the weather cooled down in PA/NJ. Oh, and the mechanic STILL has my car. At least he is being thorough and not giving it back to me to see if he fixed the problem or not. 
Printable version of this string is now 92 pages long


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## VW Hacker (Apr 11, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Hey Pagano,
I noticed in your list that you haven't swapped out the injectors. Can you find a set from a non-bucking A3 to try out for a few days? I would bet that injectors that have uneven flows (relative to one-another) could cause this problem. What does the long-term fuel trim on each of the cylinders say? (VAG-COM).
Mine has been really bad the last few dry days here in CT...


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## turboG60 (Sep 27, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

THe weather turned colder and my problem went away. This almost sounds like a vapor locking problem from the old days.





























I'll just drive really hard durring the hot days


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Okay, I just looked over your list, and noticed that you haven't done anything with the Fuel Pressure Regulator or the Fuel Pressure Regulator O ring.
This is an easy swap and should be inexpensive too. The fact that your car runs fine OTHER than when you are low speed accelerating, *should* mean that the ECU is okay.
Sorry if all my suggestions haven't gotten you anywhere...yet! This is something you can try though. It just to the left front of the intake manifold.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Okay, I just looked over your list, and noticed that you haven't done anything with the Fuel Pressure Regulator or the Fuel Pressure Regulator O ring.
This is an easy swap and should be inexpensive too. The fact that your car runs fine OTHER than when you are low speed accelerating, *should* mean that the ECU is okay.
Sorry if all my suggestions haven't gotten you anywhere...yet! This is something you can try though. It just to the left front of the intake manifold.[HR][/HR]​I'm pretty sure he tried swapping out the FPR already.


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## bugged (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

AEG is the engine, shorter block. The MkIV uses multiple coils. 
BTW. The reason why I bring this up is because all of the old wires tested fine!!! But there was an intermittant short that caused exactly the same symptoms as yours.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (bugged)*

Sorry for not responding earlier guys...insanely busy at work lately, as well as when I get home...
lemme break this down as best I can:
Old Wires had about 17K on them... new ones have less then 1K
---
I dont believe replacing the TB will do any good as the TB in OBD1 is more mechanical then that of the OBD2 and the only electrical component is the TPS...which...I've replaced
---
I never swapped the injectors...but I did remove them, clean them thoroughly and replace the O-Rings on them...I'll look into a VAG-COM test
---
Doesn't matter what the temp ...I believe it's humidity related
---
I never 'replaced' the FPR. I borrowed one from TREK'In (his old one - working condition, he uses an adjustable FPR now for the Turbo setup)....that did nothing for me, though, I've yet to replace the gasket on it...however, there is no fuel leaking...so..
---
...Page 10


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## wolf99_2.0l (Jan 18, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Pagano, I’ve been following closely you trials with the stuttering. I appreciate all your efforts. I got the same problem.
The fact that your car had a few miles on it before it started doing it gives me hope that it can be fixed.
I have a 99 2.0l Wolfsburg Jetta. Bought car with 26K at auction didn’t notice the stuttering till I got home.
Now have 56K but it still does it. Not really any change.
Here is a description of the stuttering:
Lumpy idle
Not in 1st gear
In 2nd between 2100 rpm and 2600rpm
In 3rd between 1900 rpm and 2300rpm and a bit above and below 37mph
In 4th gear below 1900 rpm very slight
Not in 5th gear
Here is what I have done over the last 18 month to track this down, all to no avail
Wires, Plugs, cap rotor, air filter
Replaced engine mounts Front, Back and transmission with new
Also used Turn 2 in lower front for a while but it caused a annoying buzz at 62mph, but helped a little
Replace TB with used
VAG-COM – never any codes – logged all sorts of parameters during the stuttering – can’t find any fluctuations – sample rate may be too low
Temp sensors seem to indicate fine
O2 sensor seems fluctuates fine
Get 33 mpg consistently 
BK44 Injector cleaner a couple of different times
Octane 91 or 87 – no real affect on stuttering
Chipped with Autothority – does it with or without
Replace MAF with used, no change to numbers from VAG_COM
Replaced O rings for injectors, also checked Fuel pressure w and w/o vac line attached, Both right on spec
Replaced the intake manifold gasket both sides (block and crossflow)
Replaced coil with used
Checked voltages and signals all over per Bentley with my brother’s oscilloscope
Checked Fuel pump flow and injector output and spray – all normal
Replaced timing belt, thermo tensioner and pulley
All of the above had zero affect on the problem








Although the engine pulls perfectly above about 2500 rpm, especially with Chip
Possible things still to go:
Cam position sensor
Distributor
Knock sensor
O2 sensor
Intake air temp and coolant temp sensors
ECU
Replace fuel rail with one populated with FPR and different injectors
Get real brave and start twiddling with “basic settings” in the ECU -- Won’t do this without a second ECU on hand
Try different tires – really reaching here – currently have Yokohama’s
Look for leaks in fuel vent system – should through a code if bad
I’ll replace everything eventually
Things that seem to affect the severity of the stuttering:
Amount of weight in car - more weight give more bucking
Going up small grade
Can’t find real correlation between temp and humidity
Possibly less in winter because rubber mounts are stiffer
Can feather thru the stutter with fine touch on the gas pedal – not too much load
Other theories:
Drive line slop /snatch in CV joints
Slop in transmission 
Slop in A arm bushings of strut bearings – can’t see any
Too weak or too strong springs in clutch plate
Dealer is completely no help as usual. Wants big bucks just to investigate
After all this time, my gut feel is that there is a harmonic in this car that feeds on itself. Somewhere something is out of spec a little bit to get it started. And then there is a reaction by the ECU systems and the mechanical systems working against each other. ???????
Sorry for the long post.
I like a good challenge but this is getting ridiculous. I’m running out if ideas and energy to chase this one.
As I do more stuff I’ll keep you posted


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## ZUMJETTA3 (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (wolf99_2.0l)*

Finally I got my car back from the mechanic. He didn't have time to tell me what he was able to do over the 3 weeks he had it but I will go over what he did on Monday. Hopefully it is going to start warming up around here again so I can put her through the test to see if the bucking is taken care of (fingers crossed). I do know that it was throwing codes, he reprogrammed the computer, and he replaced a hose here/there but that is all I know so far since he was inside a corrado engine when I showed up. As long as she gets me to http://www.waterfest.net/ I'm happy.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (wolf99_2.0l)*

wolf99_2.0l - You hit my problem EXACTLY 
Though...I think my idle is getting a bit ishy again...still need to check that out in REL mode and see wtf is going on with that...it felt a hair lumpy last night








Edit-
'95 Golf III 8v 120000 Miles
To date the following has been done:
Clean TB
Clean MAF
Clean IAC
Clean High Pressure Oil Switch
Clean Low Pressure Oil Switch
Replaced Ignition Coil Ground
Cleaned Injectors
Fuel Filter
Wires (14K)
Cap
Rotor
O2 Sensor
Throttle Position Sensor
Fuel Pump
Injector O-Rings
OEM Bosch Silver Plugs
Cleaned EGR and EGR Probe Sensor
Ran a MAF from a perfectly running car, and problems still persist
ECU Power Relay
FPR Vac Line
EGR Vac Line
FPR
Suggestions:
Ignition Coil
ECU
Engine Speed Sensor
Cam Position Sensor
EGR Valve
EGR Temp Sensor
EGR Solenoid
ICM

[Modified by Pagano, 12:26 PM 7-13-2002]


[Modified by Pagano, 12:29 PM 7-13-2002]


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

Well, I finally got around to trying a few of the fixes that were suggested for my very own little bucking issue. Cleaned throttle body, which really smoothed out idle, cleaned out PCV, checked and cleaned grounds, pulled and checked and cleaned contacts on ECU.
When I was done, took it out for a ride...and all was well...for about 2 minutes...then the same crap all over again.
Thinking back to the other day, when I made a quick stop for something and shut the car off, I recalled it did not buck when I started it again after just a minute. I thought I'd try something...
As I drove down the street, bucking away, I left it in gear, but turned off key for just a second or two...when I turned key back to run position the biucking had vansihed. I then drove about 20 miles with no problems at all.
Just an hour ago I took the car on another errand...again, within 2 minutes of start it was bucking badly, again, I quickly turned key off, then on, and bucking had stopped. I drove for about 20 miles again with no problem, then, just as I was etting home, it started to buck as I made a sharp right turn. Once again, the key off and on stopped it.
While this trick helps for a while, I am not writing about it as a solution, just as a possible clue someone might be able to understand as meaning something. 
I can't figure out how or why this helps, but it does....I am going to look over the thread and see if there is anything that helps this make sense.
If anyone can tell me why this helps or where to go from here...please let me know. Thanks









[Modified by aebad, 8:30 PM 7-14-2002]

[Modified by aebad, 8:31 PM 7-14-2002]


[Modified by aebad, 8:32 PM 7-14-2002]


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

Hmm...let's think about this for a minute.
A la Microsoft, by shutting the car on and off, would you be somehow 'clearing' the problem from the ECU, or doing some kind of reset?
Let's assume the problem is ECU *related* but not the ECU itself. What if it's just the WIRING from the ECU into the engine bay area? Reason I say this is that the big spindle of wires that is near the middle of the engine, just above the tranny bell housing, can and will deteriorate over time with heat and *humidity* and some of these wires also go to the cam position sensor and all the other various sensors.
Since the ECU controls all of this stuff and NEEDS the input from this wiring harness AND the harness under the rad shroud, would it be logical to conclude that the wiring is perhaps just faulty?? With the mileage on Paganos car that would seem to support this theory but it doesn't explain some of the newer cars problems.
Unfortunately, the ONLY way that I know of to test the wiring harness is to use a meter and test light...and trying to decipher the Bentley's wiring diagrams, ugh.
All I know for sure is that I used to have the bucking problem, but it never really caused a problem except to annoy me! Since I've replaced my engine speed sensor and cam position sensor, all is well. Plus, on the advice of a vw tech (10 bar turbo), I sprayed all the wiring harnesses with WD 40, then I covered them with black cloth tape (hockey stick tape) so they will be more protected.
Just another one of my theories....


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

I wish it was just something that irriated me...but it has gotten to the point that when the bucking starts, the car is barely drivable. Not fun.


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## Biggie (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

WD-40 is a water displacer, which would make sence to do if the problem is water/humidity related. That sounds like a good thing for all of us to do to help keep the wiring harness in good condition.
One would hope that VW would not use such cheap wire that it would degrade within a few years and cause problems...


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

quote:[HR][/HR] ... then I covered them with black cloth tape (hockey stick tape) so they will be more protected.
Just another one of my theories....








[HR][/HR]​Now that's a good resourceful canadian! We're gonna start using hockey tape like everyone else uses duct tape















All joking aside, I did the exact same thing except the hockey tape, which is an excellent idea, and my problems were solved as well. I had approx 110k miles on the car at the time... i have about 115k miles now.


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*









I don't think that the VW wiring is 'cheap' per se, but it is awfully exposed. Most other cars I've ever seen have the wires wrapped up nice and tightly with a flexible plastic sheath on it and some cloth tape holding it together. There are PARTS of my car that are like that, such as the wiring underneath the fan shroud, but others, like the main connector above the tranny bellhousing, that aren't. So I covered up my Cam Position sensor wiring, the main connector, and the MAF wires, and I think the coolant temp wires and that's it I think. If you do it right, it actually cleans up the look of the engine bay somewhat I think.


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

Hey RBG - I just came in from doing that to the car's wiring, and I was going to say exactly that. It just "looks" more solid... i dunno. BTW, I went to pick up the hockey tape at Canadian tire, and i found out that you can get stuff for vw's there too, from neuspeed crap to shrick cams! It beats having to scour the earth looking for a shop that has that sorta stuff
Canadian tire > *
So far it hasn't actually rained much, but if it does, and that bucking "suddenly" reappears (I say this because its been nearly 2 months without it doing so now) I'm going to get the new harness which is grey that someone mentioned. I'm convinced however that for *me* and probably many with lots of mileage, its where the problem is. BTW, everyone has their own threshold for what's "annoying" and what renders a car "undriveable." I don't know if we had the same level of engine bucking, but... I found it a little worse than just annoying. at 90-95 km/h in 5th, I could hardly accellerate, I needed to pop it in 4th... normally, unless I want to pass someone, I can get accelleration out of 5th as low as 70 km/h (torque rules eh)


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

Yep, Cdn Tire carries a lot of stuff now, through Key Stone Distributors. You can go the parts counter and ask to see the catalog or go to http://www.driverfx.com to see what they can get. Lots of good stuff, but mostly stuff for Honda boys though.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

humm...suppose I'll take a look at that connection....
How do you undo it...just turn it? it's a beefy mofo


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

If memory serves me right, you have to pull it (hard) off.. its a plug of sorts, i can't see how you would be able to turn it without messing up the prongs and stuff... which reminds me, you should also take the time to clean those contacts out real well... wether or not your car is bucking, and wether or not it solves Pagano's problems, Its a great thing to do imho.
Good luck Pagano... although I'm pessimistic myself, I do hope this miraculously ends all your problems!


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

quote:[HR][/HR]although I'm pessimistic myself, I do hope this miraculously ends all your problems![HR][/HR]​You're not alone on that one....
Thanks for all the support guys, I find it pretty amazed that I am NOT the only one with this problem.


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

To undo it, you just unscrew it. It should be the same as the one underneath the rad / fan shroud. I doubt that the connectors themselves are to blame as once you disconnect it, you should see that it's nice and clean and dry in there. What I would suspect is that given the mileage on Pagano's car, that there are possibly some frayed wire insulation and the electricity is arcing or something.
Before you go and take it out, spray it with a little WD 40 and see what happens. Do the cam position sensor wiring too, it couldn't hurt.


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

Actually when I removed mine, they were slightly corroded... I couldn't believe it when I saw it. My mechanic actually pointed it out to me the first time... and that was after the stealership cleaned it out for me when I was having similar problems shortly after a scheduled maintenance (while still under warranty). I'm guessing its kind of delicate (in my case) and that soon as you move it a little, or maybe as soon as the incompetent stealership mechanics don't screw it back in *properly* humidity sets in... and the 2.0 pays the price for it








But seriously, the connectors on mine have been cleaned twice now... I'm thinking the next time I'll just go get a new harness for it... So to make a long story short, maybe Pagano's connectors have corroded as well? We both have almost identical mileage on our cars and I'm assuming we have similar driving habits


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

a little *bump* because this is by far the best thread here... everyone should be reading this! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Keep up the good work Pagano
ttt!


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## vw94 (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Ok, I sold my 2L MK3 about a month and a half ago...before that I used to visit this site religiously. I always had this post in the back of my mind because I had the same problem. I owned that Jetta for 2+ years and no matter what I replaced under the hood, the problem always persisted, and never threw a CEL.
So once I decided to get rid of the car (I traded it in actually), and that's when the problem became more persistent and starting giving CEL's. (It's almost like it was telling me, "don't get rid of me just yet, here's the problem") I bring it in to Volks and they hook it up to the scanner it read as follows:
1 DTC recognized
00515 029
Camshaft Position Sensor-G40
Short circuit to ground
sporadic DTC
The dealer replaces the distributor....$425 CAD later, I was actually enjoying driving the car PROBLEM FREE for the 1st time in 2+years I owned it. Unfortunately, yours isn't throwing any DTC's and you obviously don't want to replace the cam position sensor needlessly, but definitely worth considering in light of all the money you've already put under the hood.....just my 2 cents.


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vw94)*

The cam position sensor definitely could be responsible...for the poor starting as well (ask me how I know). One thing, it can be ordered as a separate part from vwparts.com (I think). But I've go no idea how it would attach to your current distributor. I bought the whole thing, cost me about $300 CAD installed.
Put it this way...since I've replaced my Cam position sensor and engine speed sensor, I've got no more engine bucking at all.


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## vwtoby (Sep 8, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

add me to the list...
but it only hesitates/bucks when the outside temp is 25C+...go figure. anyone experience this at hot temps?
the car seems to be running at the same temp though?


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwtoby)*

Pagano... no updates in a little while... is this GOOD news? or have you given up? I'm rooting for you


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

I don't know about Pagano, but I have tried a few other things, with no solution. My quick fix, turning key on and off while driving, which someone referred to as "rebooting"







, has continued to work.
I'd really like to swap out the ECU, but have yet to find a loaner that I can use. The fact the car runs perfect for anywhere from 20 minutes to 2 hours after the "reboot" makes me think that there isn't too much wrong with the engine itself, and that a bum ECU may be the problem. Someone suggested grounds or the ECU harness, but if that were the problem, I am not sure if the "reboot" would work??? But then again...I have been dicking around with this for a few months, so I have no clue what I know anymore






















Anyway...good luck to the others here.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

sorry!!! My PC has been down for the past week and I know I haven't checked in...
The problem is still there, believe me I'll let you guys know when it's fixed!!! 
I'm a bit stuck on taking off that main harness in the engine bay. What exactly needs to be done to remove it???


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## Bill95GL (Sep 5, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I'm a bit stuck on taking off that main harness in the engine bay. What exactly needs to be done to remove it???[/QUOTE]
Are you referring to the 28 pin connector next to the distributor? If so, here's how you do it. Note that the right (as you face the engine) side of the connector is much larger and that the right side consists of a one inch part and then a 1/4 inch "rim" on the extreme right. The one inch and 1/4 inch parts are both covered with ribs. OK, to disconnect, turn the one inch part counterclockwise about 90 degrees. Don't touch the 1/4 inch part. It remains stationary. The one inch part is just a thin shell and actually turns easier than you would think (before I figured this out, I was trying to turn the 1/4 inch part with waterpump pliers!) As you turn the one inch part, the connector will "back out." When reconnecting, make sure you turn the one inch part fully clockwise. Note that the lower part of the one inch part has no ribs and that a little plastic projection sticks out next to the last rib to mark the "fully closed" position. 
Have you done the voltage and resistance checks from the ECM plug listed in that big table in Bentley? Some fellow on ramvww found some high reisistace circuits and ended up removing the relay panel and cleaning up the connections. It fixed the problem (would start cold but not run or restart when hot).


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Bill95GL)*

AN UPDATE!
Well...somewhat...
Ok, so I unscrwed the car's umbilica cord to find that the metal connections were clean and shiny looking (dammit...hoping to see a lotta corrosion..I really was)
However, the like inside case (not where the connection is, like ugh...picture if you take the connection, turn it so it is facing the sky, from the side it would look like to 'U' shapes, one larger then the other, the inside U housing all the connectors, the outside one is like 
a shell, well, that outside one had a lot of dust and debris in it.
Moving right along, I saturated both connections with WD40, hooked it up, started the car, let it idle for a minute, turned it off. 
I'll give a more in depth report tomorrow when I get it on the road.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I'm NOT about to skim or read 10 pages worth of posts. I read your first post (good idea on keeping that updated, makes it easier) and your last above post. Have you swapped out the MAF for a known good one? Who cares what the VAG says, do it anyway to make sure.
I would guess it's a sensor somewhere, probably with a broken wire or poor ground. Clean, shiney grounds are very important with fuel injected engines because the sensors/ECU monitor through varying voltage OR amperage and any additional resistance can mess things up.
Damn, this sucks! Hope ya can figure it out


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Air_Cooled_Nut)*

AN UPDATE!
Ok, so I drove the car a good 60 miles today...that WD40 in the umbilica cord did nothing.
Car still bucks
Car still needed two starts in the AM
I know for a fact the MAF I swapped came from a 'good' car. 
I've cleaned all my grounds on the engine block, including the block itself so it was a shiny connection.
I've tested a good amount of voltages and resistances, however someone mentioned above to test the ECU ground resistance....have yet to do that.
What two points am I contacting? And what should the resistance read?


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## mrbones (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well, I just spent the last couple of hours going over this thread. I think you're on the right track now that you're checking the wiring. That main bundle going by the block is really exposed and in a really hot place. I have to add my name to the list of people having this problem. I don't think mine is exactly the same as yours since I have no problem with starting. But it's similar enough that over the last 2 years I've leaned a lot about every component in that car and I was curious why you never tried a new Fuel pump relay. 
Something that happened to me recently, the car surged to 2000 rpm and wouldn't come down. I pulled over, popped the hood and for no particular reason, lightly put one finger on the TPS wiring harness and the idle immediatly returned to normal. I'm sitting here waiting for the wife to get home just so I can do more testing on the wiring. I'll let you know if I ever solve my problem and I'm waiting with baited breath to see if you ever come up with a fix for your problem. Cheers
Tim


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## BadassLilGolf (Mar 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (mrbones)*

Add me to the list. I just put a complete crossflow in my 85 golf to get away from problems like this and mine is bucking. I have read over most of your post trying to find ideas. My buddy that helped me with my swap is a VW technician at a local dealer. We will try to figure out the problem with mine and I will post. I hope there is a solution to this because it bugs me to have this hesitation on an engine I just installed.


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## VolksInstructor (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Has anyone checked fuel pressure lately? Don't forget to do a fuel flow test while your at it. Just because you have pressure doesn't mean there is enough fuel volume. Also check ground and B+ at ECM. Ground should have 0 volts when checked with DVOM, if there is something other then 0 volts then there is high resistance on the ground circuit. Harness flexing under engine load, intermittently opening circuit. Look at coil, is it cracked or is there carbon tracks. Could be breaking down when under load ie: heavy acceleration. If there are no DTC in Diagnostic memory, then it's not fuel system related. Lean condition o2 sensor for example.


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## Air_Cooled_Nut (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Okay, here's the fix:
1. Limp out here to Hillsboro
2. Give car to Dean Futrell
3. Stay at my place, lounge in the sun and drink beer
4. Two weeks later pick up car from Dean
5. Drive car home with a 20V engine swap








And it'll feel like home because we can't pump our own gas either!








Sorry dude, hope it gets fixed. Sounds like you've done a pretty thorough job and have some more experienced people helping ya. Good luck


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Air_Cooled_Nut)*

Here's a crazy Idea Stick the Car on a dyno and try to recreate the problem


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

Holy cow... this will be ELEVEN PAGES soon... anyway
I was hoping what fixed my problem would fix yours, apparently such is not the case... from what you told me of the prongs, they were in **MUCH** better condition than mine







Anyway, Eventually, once you've checked everything possible, undoubtedly you'll stumble upon it, you have to hehe. 
Regarding the starting twice business, I have an idea!
Once upon a time, the ground literally tore off the car (the one from the radio) and I had the radio and such out trying stuff, until I figured out the ground was shyte. In the meantime, I uhm... well...







forgot to be "careful" with bare wires, and since then my ignition has been shaky, to say the least. I'm going to have to get that changed soon or one day I'll have to push start the car. Guess what mine's been doing since then? In the morning, when I'm guessing its most difficult to turn the engine over, I have to start it twice. In general, its become difficult to start because the contacts in the ignition are like messed up due to an "accidental" short







. When you DO start your car during the day, does the crank turn but then it dips almost to zero rpm before the idle sets in? That's what mine does, and that's why I'm hoping its what's happening to your car. Hopefully I'm not way off on this... just giving you something to think about if nothing else








Best of luck


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## mrbones (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

Well I for one have positive news. What is it with working on cars? I've done all the easy poop a year ago trying to get rid of this problem. I read this thread the other day, got re-inspired to go at it again, today (Sat morn) I have it fixed in one hour. I thought I did all this thouroughly before, but I sprayed electronics cleaner on the MAF (a whole can) pulled the intake boot off, checked it close and sure enough, a big crack! I called the dealer and they wanted $85 for a new boot. So I cleaned it up real well with a whole can of gumout, sanded the offending spot and covered it with 5 minute epoxy. After it dried I wrapped it real tight with duct tape (ahhh duct tape) you know you're doin it right when the roll of duct tape comes out. Long story short, I have my car back! Even with the air on! Later everyone, I'm going for a drive............
Tim


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (mrbones)*

...congrats! 
Though I'm still in a slump....
I know for a fact - the car does NOT buck above 2100 RPMs, so for a band-aid fix, I'm holding the car one gear lower then normal around town to keep my revs up so the car isn't bucking all over.
I'm feeling engine speed sensor right now by the way it cranks in the morning....
<cough> 11 pages <cough>


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Pagano...
I don't know if you read my temporary solution, where I turn key quickly off and on, and then the problem vansihes for the rest of the trip. I'd like to see if this works for anyone else, which in my head, may mean we really do have the same problem.
If you try...let me know how it works.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

I dont see how that would help me any as it will buck as soon as I pull out of my driveway.
And when I go to stores for a few minutes, the car is still hot, so when I turn it over maybe 5 minutes later lets say, it still bucks. 
...one helluva tempermental problem IMO


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## golf strom (Jan 14, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Pagano:
This may be a silly comment but have you tried to contact the VW Tech support people at VWoA.(Also, make sure it is the ACTUAL tech group and not one of the customer service operators, be persistant) You might want to try it. Just a suggestion, please ignore this if you have already tried. I did this once by phone and was able to solve a problem with my Rabbit GTI that had been going on for years. 


[Modified by golf strom, 7:50 PM 8-4-2002]


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Okay, maybe your problem is worse than mine... but mine also bucks within 100 feet of leaving the house, but if I do the on and off thing with the key, it will be fine for a while. If, however, I stop at a store, it will be bucking again as soon as I pull away...then the off/on thing works for a while. Sometimes even if I stop for a light where engine idles for a minute or two, the bucking issue will come up...off/on..gone for a while...sometimes as much as an hour.
Not sure why, not sure what it means, but it makes it driveable for a while...and until I get this figured out...that is better than nothing.


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## shydawg (May 26, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

My car is doing this too!! It totally freaks me out. But mine only does it if it's been sitting overnight, and when i go to start it in the morning its totally insane, then after I drive it for about 5-10 minutes and get it warmed up, it stops! HELP ME! I feel like such a retard when i'm driving and my car is like insanely lurching all over the place


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## mrbones (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...congrats! 
Though I'm still in a slump....
I know for a fact - the car does NOT buck above 2100 RPMs, so for a band-aid fix, I'm holding the car one gear lower then normal around town to keep my revs up so the car isn't bucking all over.
I'm feeling engine speed sensor right now by the way it cranks in the morning....
[END QUOTE]
Well, I still don't think it's the speed sensor. It's a cheap part though and reletively easy to change (once you get at it). But if that part was bad I'm 99.9999999997% sure that the car wouldn't start. Have you tried the fuel pump relay? I think just driving with it jumpered will let you know. And have you swapped out your coil pack yet?

Tim
<cough> 11 pages <cough>[HR][/HR]​

[Modified by mrbones, 4:11 PM 8-5-2002]


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## alpaca2500 (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (mrbones)*

ok...
i just bought a '95 Jetta III GL, automatic transmission, 88,250 miles. right off the bat, i noticed a problem. the hesitating, i.e. after coming to a stop, it hesitates before it will go normally. i will push down on the gas, and it will go up to about 10mph, and then stay there for 5-10 seconds, and then it will kick in. this sounds very similar to some poeple problems mentioned in this post... also the bucking, when i am driving about 40-50mhp (no idea on the RPM, i havent bothered to really look at those), the car will kind of shake... a lot of people have pointed to the fuel injector (the o-rings)... pagano has talked a lot about the EGR (will somebody please tell me what an EGR is? is there a page that has all of these abbreviations listed?)
i have a few other problems too: sometimes, when i'm just driving along, at around 30-40 mph, the car will seem to downshift for no reason whatsoever (remember it's automatic), like it will go from around 2k to 3k rpms (that's the only time i paid attention to rpm). does anyone have any idea what could cause this? it doesnt seem like normal behavior...
also completely unrelated (but i want to vent about it) i took my car to get it inspected... it failed the emissions test. the mechanic said there was a problem with the exhaust system. the guy i got it from (used car dealer i kind of know) says he cant look at it, sends me to another place. it turns out i have to get the muffler and the mid-section of the exhaust replaced. the guy told me this is a common problem.
also, the radio. what is the point of putting a readio that needs a code in every car you make? now i have to go to a vw dealer to get the code. i minor annoyance compared to the other things, but having a radio is very important to me (i'll get it replaced eventually, but for now, i'm stuck with nothing)
so anyways... anyone have any coments suggestions for me? thanks.


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## westcoastjay (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

This sounds like the problem that I am having and it is the Catalytic Converter that is plugged, I have to put back in my supersprint cat pipe and it will be smooth again.


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## mrbones (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (alpaca2500)*

quote:[HR][/HR]ok...
i just bought a '95 Jetta III GL, automatic transmission, 88,250 miles. right off the bat, i noticed a problem. the hesitating, i.e. after coming to a stop, it hesitates before it will go normally. .[HR][/HR]​
Since you just bought it, have you checked the trans fluid yet? Also, if you've read this ridiculously long but very informitive thread, have you tried some of the easier suggestions laid out throughout the thread?

Tim


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## mrbones (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (shydawg)*

quote:[HR][/HR]My car is doing this too!! It totally freaks me out. But mine only does it if it's been sitting overnight, and when i go to start it in the morning its totally insane, then after I drive it for about 5-10 minutes and get it warmed up, it stops! HELP ME! I feel like such a retard when i'm driving and my car is like insanely lurching all over the place







[HR][/HR]​
Have you checked your cap, coil and wires yet?
Tim


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## manyMILES (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (mrbones)*

Pagano, I feel sorry for you and I hope you find the answer to your problem.
After reading through the whole thread, I was preparing for an all out battle with my jetta I just bought that was displaying simular symptoms. What I had was reduced power on acceleration, that seemed to start on a rainy day, but after that first time, would happen all the time. Included with this behavior, the CEL would iluminate simultaneously. Rough idle too.
I took what I think is the IAC off an sprayed about half a can of carb cleaner into it and shook it around. I also sprayed carb cleaner into the throttle body to clean it. Result: idle problem fixed, but still had the CEL on during acceleration. Took a second look at my air intake hose, and discovered a crack on the elbow. Dealer replacement $85, junk yard replacement $10, smooth strong CEL free acceleration: priceless. All done in less than an hour, that's why I feel for you Pagano 
To celebrate fixing my problem I decided to take the car out on the road for a hi speed test. Well all was well until I hit 110 mph and the car seemed to suddenly lose power for a second. I back off immediately down to sane speeds and have not had a problem since. Are these cars speed governed, or did I just create a new problem for myself.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

AN UPDATE!!
(and the peasents rejoyced!)
Well, no 'good news' but I called up my friends at germanautoparts and placed an order
Fuel Pump Relay
Load Reduction Relay
Buddy of mine is a VWOA tech, and he said that when people come in complaining about this problem, they replace those two relays and it 'usually' solves the problem. So - what the hell...for 20 bucks its worth a shot, right?


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

PUUUUHleeeezzee let us know how this works out. I am so sick of thinking about this and replacing crap. If this works there will be much rejoicing indeed!
Keep us up do date....Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

quote:[HR][/HR]PUUUUHleeeezzee let us know how this works out. I am so sick of thinking about this and replacing crap. If this works there will be much rejoicing indeed!
Keep us up do date....Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







[HR][/HR]​I cleaned the fuse panal on Saturday. Removed all the fuses, and relays, and basically drenched the thing with electronics cleaner (with batt unplugged of course). I hooked it all back up, and it is still requiring two starts in the AM. But I haven't really notiecd bucking, I dont want to say that for sure as I've simply been ignoring it (after 5 months you learn to). I'll take note of it again tomorrow if it does it.
I'm thinking the two starts in the AM is the load reduction relay, as I've also noticed my radio no longer turns off. I used to recall listening to the radio, turning the key, and then having to watch "A-L-P-I-N-E" spin around on the display a second time. 
My package from Germanautoparts should be arriving tomorrow afternoon.
I'll have another status check Wednesday night.
Just to recap, the parts I ordered are:
Fuel Pump Relay
Load Reduction Relay
hehehe, on a side note, I find it amusing that people read this post like it's a story, and are waiting for the next chapter















FYI - it DEFINATLY does NOT buck above 2100


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## RGRistroph (Aug 8, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I'm about to try spraying "anti-jump" snake oil potion (what ever looks good from the offerings at the local autozone) all over my whole engine compartment as well as the fuze box below the dash on the driver's side. I have a similar problem to yours; occasionally at any time, but mostly while trying to accelerate, it will act as if you very breifly turned the key to off, and then turned it back to run and let it push start itself. The water temp warning light and the seat belt liight both come on for a few seconds, just as if you had just started the car.
I have a 1988 Jetta, 4 cylinder gasoline, no AC, 128k miles.
I have replaced the alternator, the distributor, the plugs and wires, and the coil. I replaced the plugs, wires, and coil over 6 moths ago, and at that time I thought it had gone away. I should also mention that a few months ago I replaced the starter three times, I kept getting bad re-builds I guess. I have also done the timing (following the special digifant way). I added another ground wire between the battery and valve cover. It feels as if someone briefly shorted out the whole system accross the battery terminals and the alternator. 
I'm about to replace the oxygen sensor, since when I disconnect the car seems to run slightly smoother (although the bucking/shorting out of the engine electrical system still happens.) I have to figure out if I can order a generic $30 one and solder my own connection to it instead of paying over $100 for the special one for my car.
I have never made it happen while the car was not moving. This makes it hard to diagnose in the driveway. I though of trying to put a video camera in the engine comptment while I drive so I can see if there is a visible spark somewhere. While it's idling with the hood up, I poke prod and jiggle all the wires I can find, with a stick. I can't make it happen.
Actually, it may have happened while parked twice; it wouldn't start, and when I turned the key to the start position all electrical power would fade out, even the digital clock below the speedometer. In both instances, I had a hunch and I put it in gear and shoved it forward hard with the clutch out to rock the engine and it started fine. I figured at the time it was yet another starter going out on me (although usually they go out by the solenoid failing, so you turn the key and the starter start whining away full blast, and the only way to stop it is to take the battery cable off.)
I noticed it seemed to happen less after I sprayed a lot of WD-40 around the engine compartment trying to see if it was a vacuum leak (even though I'm sure it's electrical, I was trying everything). That's why I decided to basically hose of the whole thing with some kind of anti-jump potion. I squeezed and pulled the rubber air intake and all that.
I have also tried jiggling and kicking the fuse box while it was running in the driveway and while driving, in an attempt to make it happen so I could isolate it. No luck.
Just one more thing though -- occasionally, make 4 or 5 times total, it has bucked and cut out like that when I turned on the head lights. I think that the fact that it can be induced by that sudden load means it has got to be a short or faulty ground somewhere. It is also more frequent and the cut-out last longer (sometime almost a second) when it rains.
How can I check the ground and power to the engine computer ?


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Let us know what happens! Can you tell us where these relays are located?


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I've noticed the bucking problem on my car a few weeks ago. It only happens with the AC on in 100+ weather. The car will buck at low RPM's. I shut the AC off the car runs fine. My A/F gauge reads lean when this is happening. Now also my car bogs on startup. The RPM's will drop the car will sputter then the revs will climb to normal idle. Sometimes I have to crank twice for the car to start. My friend says it may be the ignition switch in the steering column. Does the fuel pump relay actually go bad?
By you solving your problem, you will also be solving the problems of half the people in this forum. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Good luck! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

ok, so it was mind over matter. car still bucks and requires two starts after cleaning fuse/relay panal.
(relays are located above fuses)
I put in the two new relays a few hours ago and will give a status check either tonight or tomorrow night.
quote:[HR][/HR]My friend says it may be the ignition switch in the steering column.[HR][/HR]​That is actually on my list as well, I once pulled the key from the ignition, and it felt pretty damn hot. I'm going to see what these relays do for me.
My friend who is a VW Tech said that the resistance throughout the system changes as RPM's go up, therefore if a relay is faulty, (fuel pump) it will not send it the right signal and pump too little, or too much fuel, and 2000 rpm's is roughly where this occurs.
Who knows though...Hopefully I will in 24 hours.
If not, then ignition switch may be next.


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Also, my accessory wire that goes to the radio was getting no power...so my radio would not turn on. My friend said that was a characterisic of the ignition switch going bad. Do you have problems turning the key? I have to jiggle the key from time to time to turn the ignition.


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## DoublFeliX (Jul 27, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

Everyone who's used electronics cleaner for the MAF, where did you get it from. I got some from radio shack, but it just sprays a stream of liquid rather than a mist, which I'm assuming probably won't help me out that much. Is there anywhere else that I can get this stuff?


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (DoublFeliX)*

Pagano did you change the relays yet!!! what is the verdict???


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (DoublFeliX)*

The stuff I used is called Neosolv. It came tfrom the dealer.


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## 95jetta2.0 (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

My prob, like yours, goes away after turning off and then back on the car. soooo damn annoying. im in rush hour to day, and the dame thig is buckling so bad, im afraid im going to crash.


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (95jetta2.0)*

Ok, so the relays - did nothing.
If I move my shift point up 500PMS to like 3K, the bucking is completely gone as each upshift lands me at 2200, which at that point, it doesn't buck.
Next is ignition switch when I get around to it...


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## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Ok, so the relays - did nothing.
If I move my shift point up 500PMS to like 3K, the bucking is completely gone as each upshift lands me at 2200, which at that point, it doesn't buck.
Next is ignition switch when I get around to it...[HR][/HR]​DO you have a Chip?? Could it be the Rev limiter?? if you can eliminate the problem by changing your Shift Points Maybe Just Maybe the Rev limiter part of your ECU is faulty ??
Just a silly though


----------



## zuren (Sep 26, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I waded through as much of this post as I could, then went back to the updated lists. I'm sure you checked or someone else suggested it, please disregard this if you have, but, did you check the intake hose between the airbox and the TB? And I mean REALLY check it! If you haven't, I would scour it with a flashlight and magnifying glass, maybe even remove it, bend it and twist it some to see if any cracks/holes are present. 
Reason I say this is I had a 1990 Ford Probe that behaved nearly the same way but at the opposite end of the RPM range, ran perfectly under 65-70 MPH (<2500 rpm). I would get to highway speed (70-75 MPH, >3000 rpm) and the thing would buck, stutter, jump; like it was going to seize and explode. My trusted shop was baffled and suggested a new clutch. No change. It ended up being a hairline fracture in that plastic hose that would open just enough to allow too much air in when the engine rocked at high load. I'm wondering that if this is the case, maybe your engine rocks in such a way (and ever so small) that it could be opening and closing such a fracture at low speed and RPMs.
Like I said, maybe you checked and its a long shot but it's a problem I dealt with before that produced the same symptoms.


----------



## RGRistroph (Aug 8, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

I may have found my problem (I have thought I had it fixed for as long as a week before though) through this method, which you may want to try: I put a jack under the transmission and jacked it up just a bit, till it was rocked back like I was accelerating. Then it would do it sitting in the driveway. (If you run the car on the jack put a piece of wood or chunk of motor mount rubber there, or else it will beat up and down and sounded like it might to damage.)
I discovered that my engine went back further than it should, because the front motor mount was partly broken. I think the actual problem was the smaller of the wires leading from the positive battery terminal was partly broken close to the connector at the end, and would sometimes loose the connection when the engine went back. I am replacing the whole battery clamp, cable, and that wire's connector. (Just got done with the motor mount, which was a bear of a job, had to replace the bracket too because I couldn't get the old mount off the bracket.)
Anyway, that probably isn't your problem, but you may want to try the jack under the engine thing. A bunch of old mouse pads between the jack and the engine might be one way to avoid beating up the bottom of your transmission case.


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## Tuborg (Aug 18, 2002)

*Phrase du jour: Hard Load Change*

I wish I would have found this forum 2 weeks ago! I have a 1995 Golf III GL that had 118,000 miles on it at the time of the "incident", only 2000 of which were mine!
The check engine light would come on intermitently while driving and the car would buck lightly. This usually happend when the car was under heavier load (ie, going up a hill on the highway). I didn't have time to look into it.
My friends and I went on a 300 mile road trip. On the way back, about 30 miles from home the bucking became much worse. Like a switch was thrown, the car became undriveable under 3000rpm. I'm not paying for a tow truck and the rest of the way is highway, so 4000rpm in 4th gear... 75mph all the way home!
I was finally able to drive the car today, two weeks later!
The car was throwing codes 513, 515 and 518. I never activated my version of Vag COM as I have to replace the hard drive on my PC soon (now I have time to fix that!)... so I only knew that 515 was camshaft position sensor. Later I find out that the codes are in the book for my dad's Passat. Just look under the 1995, 2.0 litre section. No book to buy for me!
So we go to the local dealer and try to order a camshaft position sensor. I'm not so sure the sensor disconnects from the distributor like it does on this bigger engines, but they ordered me a part anyways. It definitely was too big to fit into the distirbutor so back with ye. Their fault, they take it back. While at the dealer, we decide the only way to replace the sensor is to replace the whole distirbutor. Close to $300, ouch!
Of course this doesn't fix the problem. And I've already wasted close to a week waiting for the original camshaft position sensor. So we get the dealer to give us our old distributor back.
By this time I realized all the codes are in the Passat book. So we decoded the other two to be engine speed sensor and throttle position sensor. Look at throttle position sensor in the tech manual and what is a symptom? Hard Load Change. Yah! This describes my problem (quite hilariously if you ask me).
So we hook it up to the computer again and watch the output. TPS Angle is stuck at 106. The tech doc suggest replacement of the sensor only if it doesn't move uniformly (meaning the pot is bad). If it's stuck at 0 or 106 degrees, it claims there's a wiring problem. We ignore the wisdom of the tech doc (on the advice from my dad that a worn out pot is probably more likely) and I waste ~$100 on a new TPS.
Replace it.. no go! Boo! Can't take that one back! No we go back to the tech doc and check continuity like it suggests and sure enough, wire #2 to the sensor is open. We begin to look for where when we realize it was sheared off right at the plug that attaches to the sensor (those plugs are used everywhere!). The dealer REFUSES to sell me a plug claiming that you need a special tool to attach it! Forget them!
After having another wire break off while attempting to replair, I cut the thing off entirely and hacksaw it open. I then attach new wires and add some RTV compound to remove some of the stress from the soldering joints.
Two weeks of waiting for parts and RTFM all for one stupid wire!
To summarize: If you have this problem, maybe it's your TPS and not the camshaft position sensor. That or wiring to a sensor. Like others have pointed out, the wiring isn't necessarily shoddy... just a little 'exposed'. And be warned of those plugs! Shearing a wire off there is annoying!
Questions:
1. Why did that one wire throw codes for the TPS, the engine speed sensor AND the camshaft position sensor? Seeing how these are all related, I venture to say they're connected in the computer somewhere... either by wires physically or in code.
2. Where can I buy a new plug to attach to a sensor?!
Well that was a nice first post. Hopefully my screws up help someone else with this problem!


----------



## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (manyMILES)*

Alpaca 2500,you need somebody with a VW scan tool to reset your transmissions "basic settings".


----------



## SILVERADO (May 16, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SILVERADO)*

This post is so long that I never bothered reading it,but now that I have I would have said IAC valve or throttle position sensor.


----------



## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SILVERADO)*

Pagano, I'm telling you its your ignition switch, as far as your double start in the morning is concerned.... hell, I have the same car (a 4dr golf GL) the same radio!!!( alpine) and it's exactly the fact that my radio wasn't turning itself on anymore on starts that was telling me I had an ignition problem. Same happened on my brother's GTI before mine, so that's two concrete examples where this was the problem... Its not a DIY job though







The piece cost my mechanic something like 30something bucks (CAD) but with labour it came up to over 100$ (CAD, again). Basically, either A: the copper connects around the ignition are worn out, or B: a short, probably while installing or tinkering with the radio will cause the plastic casing (so I was told guys, sorry if the description is all wrong) to melt, and so the copper contacts have trouble making.. contact. If you pull out your radio, there's a small brown wire, it is somehow connected with the ignition, probably so that when a key's in, on the stock radio, the power's on even when the car's off. It's got a very small voltage, but if its not covered its prone to causing shorts. My brother had a buddy of his (honda owner eh, go figure) put in his radio, and aside from using the accessory light wire to power the radio, he left that ignition wire bare, and.... poof. It was so bad the car wouldn't start anymore, nevermind on the second try. As for me, I was mad at my radio because, as it turned out, the FRIGGIN ground come off, near the exh. manifold (of all places to put one). I accidentally left the fuse for the radio in, and when it came into contact with that ignition wire, sparks flew, literally. Since then I've had to start the car twice after its been sitting for a while. When it does start, it seems to "struggle" to reach idle, unlike it used to, which is more like the engine "shoots" up to about 1.5k then comes down to idle. I'll bet you a case of two-four that yours does that too








Let us all know, so I can reply with a "i told you so"








Good luck


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

mine does a buncha things when it starts
in the AM...it requires two starts..
the first start gets it to about 400RPM...then it dies
second fires RIGHT up....1500 and then drops to about 920 (I'm chipped)
If it does not need the second start, then sometimes it either does the shoot to 1500, or it will go RIGHT to 920 and stop dead.
I know the part itself is pretty cheep, but I heard replacement is a snap...just a matter of pulling all the splines from the steering column. ...so when I do that, I'll take the time to clean up all the splines, bushings, and bearings in the wheel....
...now, when I get around to this...is another story
...and please people, before you msg me, email me, IM me or whatever, please read the first post saying what I have done already. I've had at least 15 people send me messages one way or another, and every msg says they know the problem, then tell me something listed on the very first post that I did way back when this problem first started...just a tiny rant...


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Pagano, I'm telling you its your ignition switch, as far as your double start in the morning is concerned.... hell, I have the same car (a 4dr golf GL) the same radio!!!( alpine) and it's exactly the fact that my radio wasn't turning itself on anymore on starts that was telling me I had an ignition problem. Same happened on my brother's GTI before mine, so that's two concrete examples where this was the problem... Its not a DIY job though







The piece cost my mechanic something like 30something bucks (CAD) but with labour it came up to over 100$ (CAD, again). Basically, either A: the copper connects around the ignition are worn out, or B: a short, probably while installing or tinkering with the radio will cause the plastic casing (so I was told guys, sorry if the description is all wrong) to melt, and so the copper contacts have trouble making.. contact. If you pull out your radio, there's a small brown wire, it is somehow connected with the ignition, probably so that when a key's in, on the stock radio, the power's on even when the car's off. It's got a very small voltage, but if its not covered its prone to causing shorts. My brother had a buddy of his (honda owner eh, go figure) put in his radio, and aside from using the accessory light wire to power the radio, he left that ignition wire bare, and.... poof. It was so bad the car wouldn't start anymore, nevermind on the second try. As for me, I was mad at my radio because, as it turned out, the FRIGGIN ground come off, near the exh. manifold (of all places to put one). I accidentally left the fuse for the radio in, and when it came into contact with that ignition wire, sparks flew, literally. Since then I've had to start the car twice after its been sitting for a while. When it does start, it seems to "struggle" to reach idle, unlike it used to, which is more like the engine "shoots" up to about 1.5k then comes down to idle. I'll bet you a case of two-four that yours does that too








Let us all know, so I can reply with a "i told you so"








Good luck[HR][/HR]​I did not know you can short out the switch...it started happening to me right after we tried to install my new headunit. The RPM's would dip, then go to normal idle. This has been bugging the crap out of me for two weeks. Now I know for sure its the switch. Thanks... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

"When I get around to it" - aka...2 days later - I ordered the switch today from my good friends at germanautoparts.com ...wonder if I can just apply for an account and have them bill me monthly...hmmm








It should be in my hands by wednesday...installed by this weekend sometime. So I suppose I'll update then. 
When talking to Dave, he said it also sounds like the ignition switch, especially when I mentioned the key was a bit hot one day....
...we'll see... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

I WISH my car would throw codes...even if it just said, "Beats the hell outta me!" at least so I know my car can talk to me...dammit!
....12...


[Modified by Pagano, 9:19 PM 8-19-2002]


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

12 pages... I'm just inserting this here to point out that anyone that reads through all 12 pages will undoubtedly forget the first 5 by the time he/she gets here. Furthermore, you'll get irritated by the fact I'm probably right, and in the heat of it, you'll forget another 5. In the end, you'll have lost about an hour of your life, if not more... all depending on how fast you read















On a marginally more serious note...
Why do you need those damn codes? everyone knows it works like an 8-ball right?







There's like a "bank" of 5-6 possible answers, and it picks one at random... probably








"8-ball, will I win the lottery?" ... "Beats the hell outta me!?!"


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Pagano, given any thought to that motor mount post just a few up from here?
It seems logical, since low-rpm stomping on the gas pust the most torque on the engine, and would cause the greatest shift relative to the engine mounts. If a bad wire is affected by this motion, it could have definite, and intermittent effects that are exacerbated by heat, humidity, or pure chance.
There's your mix of electrical and mechanical, proving that it might be neither one nor the other, but both.
Just an idea...
By the way, mine did it really bad the other day, for an extended period of time. I stomped on it after a civic cut me off at the bottom of a hill and i wanted to tail him. When i got on it, it bucked, and i decided not ot let off like my instincts demanded. it kept doing it all the way up the hill, and after about 10 seconds of constant hard bucking (which i hoped would throw a CEL, but didn't) i let off and got right back on. Ran beautifully. I could see from this experience how that motor mount thing may have something to do with it.
I'll test it out soon...i've been wanting to get Turn2 mounts anyway.


[Modified by Firestarter, 6:45 PM 8-21-2002]


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

nah...it's linear acceleration...well linear in terms of pedal pressure, not 'romping' on the gas or hitting the gas...you can just be chillin at like 1800/1900 ish holding that RPM with slight gas and the car will be bucking all over. 
I can feel the difference between my motor mounts and the bucking...
Just a side note, the only one replaced so far is the front lower - KCD http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
When I have the loot available...front upper, and rear upper get replaced...
edit - now that I thought of it...linear acceleration would be the nuts....










[Modified by Pagano, 6:47 PM 8-21-2002]


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## GameDay (Sep 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Ok...good luck to you guys! I'm hoping to get an A3 someday, but not until this bucking problem is resolved. Have you checked for hairline fractures in the intake...that would be a touch one to diagnose.
Good Luck!
GameDay


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (GameDay)*

I actually devised somewhat of a plan to check for holes or small fractures in the intake tube, cause I've inspected it at least 10 times now, and every time it's perfect.
I am going to take it off, and cover each end, and the two holes in it (PCV, IAC line) with duct tape so it is sealed shut
Then if you were to squeeze it, it should just bend and flex, but if air comes out, then there is a leak somewhere.
That or put a small hole in one end of the duct tape, and hook an air compresser up and slowly spray air into it and see if any hissing is aparant


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## Chrismilli (Jan 25, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I pick up that everyone with this problem has an OBD 1 car, me too, I don't buck but my acceleration is rough up too 3000rpm.


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## Firestarter (Jan 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Chrismilli)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I pick up that everyone with this problem has an OBD 1 car, me too, I don't buck but my acceleration is rough up too 3000rpm. [HR][/HR]​Nope, mine's a 97 (OBD II) and more than a few other on this thread are too.


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## eyetronic (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Firestarter)*

I had this problem and the stealership said that whoever had done my timing had done a faulty job with it -- anyway -- the code that came up was cam position sensor they told me. They replaced that and did the timing and it has been two weeks with no problem at all. and better acceleration now too.
Maybe check this out -- Hope you guys figure out your problems
I feel for you Pagano


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (eyetronic)*

I made an attempt at replacing that switch last night - failed...couldn't get off the damn spline.
I went to a repair shop that works on VW's today and asked how much...
He said $145!!!!
Now, being the ass I am, I asked, "Well, you wouldn't know of any place to get a spline puller would you, that's where I am having trouble"
His responce? "Why, spline pops right off, the hardest part is the airbag"
I shoulda walked away right thiere...
He kept saying that taking off the spline was cake, and it just slid right off..
So lemme get this straight then....
$145 to replace igniton switch,....
Frankly, if I can remove the entire assembly DOWN to that spline in 10 minutes, then how in the hell are they charging $145 if the rest of it is cake!? That works out to ROUGHLY $217 Hr labor rate!!!
10 to disassemble to spline
~10 to do the rest as it's "nothing"
20 to reassemble the whole shabam
My ASS!!!!


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I'm replacing mine tonight.


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

My ignition switch got replaced tonight...that was the problem. The car fired right up with no hesitation or bogging. You do need a puller to get the spline off. My friend did it in about 15-20 mins. The part was like 20 bucks. It was some kind of strange looking tool, made specifically to remove that spline. If you have never done it, it could possibly take a while.


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## 276ways (Feb 11, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (VadGTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have the same bucking problem and the rough idle. My bucking starts after sitting in rush-hour traffic. Also, sometimes my RPM's climb up to 2000 and sit there until I put it into gear. This may be somehow related... TTT[HR][/HR]​you have a leak after the throttle body or on the throttle body


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (276ways)*

The RPM thingy for two posts above me - clean your TB, and IAC
Welp, after 3 tries, I FINALLY got the switch in.
I tried to hardcore pull the spline off - failed
Thought it might of been a key channel thingy, so I tried to push in and turn - failed
Got a gear puller from a buddy of mine, modified it a bit with the help of a bench grinder, and went at it today, after numerous bruses on my legs - SUCCESS
Spline popped off, yadda yadda yadda - new ignition switch - IS IN
I'll give you guys an update tomorrow night on how it starts for me tomorrow....It's misty/foggy outside right now - so I'd imagine, typically my car would most definatly require two starts tomorrow AM, so we'll see how this goes...
Wish me luck!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

good luck bro!!!














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DasoGTI (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vento 95 GL)*

Wow... am I glad I checked out this thread. here's a little something I posted on another forum (montrealracing.com) out there and it sounds so similar to my problem... I never thought about the ignition switch though, my key gets exeptionally hot on certain days, especially when the bucking is present. A new twist to my story!! thanks guys!!








I'm impatient to find out wether or not the switch will do anything.
Post from other forum:
Golf 4, 2.0L 8v engine, 5 speed manual, regular oil changes, 64 500 km. GIAC chip, neuspeed exhaust, K&N drop in filter. Stock spark plugs (about 2000 km on them), original wires.
Here's the thing. My car has been having intermittent idle problems for quite some time now, and I'm getting sick of it. Last wednesday I went to the dealer to get something checked out (unlrelated) and asked the mecanic to check out my problem at the same time.
Here's are the symptoms: on certain days, doesn't seem to be related to wet weather it's kinda random, the car idle's extremly bumpy. when coming up to a stop sign I clutch in and the engine RPM drops rapidly and goes down to 500 - 250 RPM and stays down there and jumps from 250 - 500 - 850... it's really bumpy. Sometimes it actually stalls. This is not constant though and happens intermittently. Kinda like I had an aggressive cam in there, while my cam is still stock.
At the dealership, we started up the car and as a check the mecanic revved the car up to about 3000 - 3500 RPM to check for miss firing/pinging and all that. Well, the engine was kinda rough. Instead of the usual brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr you're supposed to get, it was going brrrrrrrrrrrrrrbrrrrrrrbrrrrrrbrrrrrrrrrr (kinda hard to decribe a sound in words, hopefully you guys understand). We kinda guessed it was misfiring. It wasn't constant either, no pattern in the stumble could be found. It's not incredibly noticable, but it's still there and it's bothering me.
We then proceded to plug the car to the VAG-COM to check it out. Started to diagnose it, he asked me if I was chipped, I said I was, not bothering to lie as I know the guy for a while now. He told me he couldn't really help me out for my warrenty work as he would not be allowed to work on it cause of the chip. anyhow, he wouldn't even give me an idea as to what it was. I'm thinking of getting ride of my chip for the time so I can get this sorted out, as this problem was there before I chipped the car.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (DasoGTI)*

Well lemme see here...
First off - Ignition switch did jack...good thing it only cost me $15 and I installed it myself - or I'd be quite pissed...
Now, I was talking to someone at work who got me thinking, he said to check the negative side of the fuel pump return.
Meaning, there may be a crack in the negative fuel line, so it is losing vacuum, and at certain RPM's it cannot sustain the needed amount of fuel. He also tried to explain that if the car sits for a prolonged period of time, then the fuel would suck itself out from the rail, and back into the tank due to the lack of vacuum...hence the two starts...one start burns that little bit of fuel, and the second one is already primed, so it fires right up...
Sounds good on paper...untill I realized this...the car can sit all weekend, and if it's hot and dry outside, it'll fire right up for me, so therefore, this has nothing to do with the two starts...ugh...con-fus-ed
[Busts out a drawing pad] - welp...who's next with an idea?


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## RGRistroph (Aug 8, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I think I fixed my bucking problem. I posted earlier that I had discovered that my engine moved too much because of a broken motor mount, and that the movement of the engine messed up the connection of the smaller of the two wires leading to the positive battery terminal. Well, that was it, it has run fine ever since. Of course I feel like an idiot for it being something that simple. I replaced an alternator, distributor, and a couple of other things not so expensive before I figured it out.


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## mrbones (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Well lemme see here...
Now, I was talking to someone at work who got me thinking, he said to check the negative side of the fuel pump return.
[HR][/HR]​Pagano, you could easily check your friend's theory by doing some fule pressure tests. Do it and you can confidently rule the fuel pressure out.
Tim


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## liquidonline (Jun 24, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (mrbones)*

Pagano, sorry about the ignition theory. It honestly sounded JUST like it was that! I'm beginning to think your car is cursed (in case you haven't already been convinced of that yourself...)
I admire your persistance


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

Maybe its the driver


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Have you done any VAG-COM logging while it was bucking? You should.


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## T04VR6 (Aug 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

so it's a motor mount?


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (T04VR6)*

quote:[HR][/HR]so it's a motor mount?[HR][/HR]​uh ...no - feel free to read the post
---
Sorry guys, but at this point, I think I'm going to put this whole thing on the back burner for a while, Way too much other crap going on in my life. Ugh...


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## GameDay (Sep 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Pagano,
Sorry that this problem has not been solved for you yet. If anyone has the patience, please list everything that has been tried, and if the results were successful for some of the vortexers on here.
I can't believe with all the vortex knowledge that your problem hasn't been solved yet.








Sorry man.
GameDay


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## 94Golfer (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (GameDay)*

well im back with the bucking problem with Pag and the rest of yall. I thought I had it fixed after a good cleaning but
its back. After cleaning it ran sweet then the next day it went to pot. My problem seems to worsen after warmed up and also with 
the A/C on. Ive replaced the following: wires cap rotor distr plugs, fuel filter.


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## 94Rabbit (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (94Golfer)*

pagano ive had the same problem as you ever since fire damage in the wiring harness in my car, the exact same bucking problem, I took the ignition switch apart and rewired it along with new fuel pump relay, this has fixed my problem


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (94Rabbit)*

Also, just a side note, everything I have done is listed on Page one first post on this topic.


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## redcult (Mar 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Dam, 12 pages... Good luck again even though I said that about 6 pages ago...


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## rnall (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

If it is rainy and damp, you will probably need to replace the ignition coil and plugs/wires. Chances are that they are arching somewhere when they get wet.
Zach


----------



## GREENING (Apr 19, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

mine does the same thing if i let it idle with ac on for a while


----------



## psychojerm (Dec 13, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (GREENING)*

my beetle 2.0T use to do the same thing. It did it bad. I had a piping leak though and when i found that it fixed it.


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]'95 Golf III 8v 123000 Miles
To date the following has been done:
Clean TB
Clean MAF
Clean High Pressure Oil Switch
Clean Low Pressure Oil Switch
Clean IAC
Replaced Ignition Coil Ground
Cleaned Injectors
Fuel Filter
Wires (14K)
Cap
Rotor
O2 Sensor
Throttle Position Sensor
Fuel Pump
Injector O-Rings
OEM Bosch Silver Plugs
Cleaned EGR and EGR Probe Sensor
Ran a MAF from a perfectly running car, and problems still persist
ECU Power Relay
FPR Vac Line
EGR Vac Line
FPR
Fuel Pump Relay
Load Reduction Relay
Ignition Switch
Suggestions:
Ignition Coil
ECU
Engine Speed Sensor
Cam Position Sensor
ICM[HR][/HR]​Just thought I'd post a list of what has been done already from page 1. Hope you get this licked soon!


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## kenrinc (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Red Baron Golf)*

Wow what a long post!! I just solved a similar problem that was driving me nuts on my 81 pickup with 84' GTI motor. Same description of problem although mine feels similar to bad spark. The motor runs as if only on 3 cylinders, no power, hesitation and low idle. Many times the car would be running fine, 65mph on the freeway then all of sudden start stumbling. Then it would come back. Eventually it just ran bad all the time. I realize my car is standard CIS with lambda so I take that into account (I believe your at least CIS-E if not more modern) but after doing some electrical troubleshooting I noticed that my fuel pump would quit during the times when the car would hesitate. After the car started running bad all the time (I had to reset the idle in order for the car to idle at all) I noticed that I could not hear the frequency valve. I unplugged it and of course the car runs the same without it, which is wrong. Also unplugging the oxy sensor did nothing (normaly the car is effected by this when it's warm). This all turned out to be the lambda electronics or faux "ecu". It's not actually an ECU but for my purposes it is just because it fullfils that purpose however small. I plugged in another ECU from a similar car and the problem dissapeared. Completely gone. Upon opening my ECU it looked brand new; no water spots or leaks to be seen and no blown parts.
Ken-
[email protected]


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (kenrinc)*

Pagano, when you swapped out the ECU from the other car, was it the same ECU code?


[Modified by Red Baron Golf, 3:03 PM 9-17-2002]


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

bump? suppose I may as well keep this post alive...
guys, I hate to say this, but I've honestly decided to just live with this problem, I'll have to worry about it later on...
SIDE NOTE: car starts up every morning now







though it is hesitant to start, it starts on the first try
I'm working on something right now to keep my mind off of it


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## mrbones (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

quote:[HR][/HR]guys, I hate to say this, but I've honestly decided to just live with this problem, I'll have to worry about it later on...
I'm working on something right now to keep my mind off of it







[HR][/HR]​Totally understandable. But you'll be back. You live with it for a while and a year or so down the line you get a wild hair up your ass and dig right back into this problem. 
If you recall, I said I fixed my problem a month or so ago, but I mearly solved A problem and lessened the symptoms. I think I'm down to the last little issue with this car that's keeping it from driving like new. And I've noticed a symptom that I want to test out with other ABA engines and I'd like to make a call out to all of you to do a test on your cars to see if mine is acting like all of yours. Here's the test:
Sitting in the driveway at idle, the rpm's are rock solid. (mine is at 900, but I know others differ slightly, just so it's rock solid) Now, bring the rpm's up to any mark and try to hold it steady, let's say.....2100. What mine does is, as I keep steady pressure on the pedal, the rpm's move up or down every second or so by about 25-50 rpm's.
My thought is that this is not normal and the thing that's causing this fluctuation is my problem. OK? OK! Get out in those driveways please and burn some hydrocarbons boys!!!
And I'm going to cut and paste this message into a new topic to bring more people into this test, maybe people whithout this problem.

On the edge of my seat awaiting replys.
Tim



[Modified by mrbones, 2:28 PM 9-23-2002]


----------



## PlainJetta (Aug 26, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I think I just solved my similar problem. The ground strap between the ignition coil and the valve cover had broken off. Replace it and the engine is much smoother, and the bad hesitation that occured around 2500RPM seems to be gone. If you're experiencing this problem, check that ground strap.


----------



## 94Golfer (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PlainJetta)*

just thought to add a note hear. I was having the same prob then I thought it was fixed by cleaning the intake system. It helped for a little while and then returned. Today I found the problem....Bad wires. This is the second time that this has happened. I have been careful with pulling the wires when installing plugs. What had happened is that I could hear a 
ticking sound and what I thought was the injectors was really both the 
injectors and the wire arching against the head. 
I previously posted that I had changed out the wires and also have done
ohm tests on the wires plus I have done the spray mister at night to see
any arching, but somehow it only decided to show today. 
My quick fix is a piece of rubber between the wire head, and all is well.
Prolly will work until new wires come in. Now its time to move onto the 
mods!!!


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well, I finally got hold of a matching ECU and swapped it. I took a drive of about 25 miles, all speeds...no bucking. I am hoping this solves it, but I remain unconvinced. I'll let you all know what happens over the next week or so.
I have thought I had this solved before, only to be disappointed. I will be keeping my fingers crosssed.


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## VDUBDRIVER (May 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

I think I mentioned it before...I had a bucking problem only in the midrange when I missed on tooth when replacding the timing belt...the car idle fine and once passt 2500 RPM or so it was fine...wide open throttle was not a problem and it felt like it had plenty of power. Only thing was the check engine light came on...it went out after the belt was aligned corretly...
I don't know how to check the timing however...some one have any idea? Can you check the timing with a timing gun? What do you disconnect? I just realigned everything and all was fine...since the ECU adjusts the timing (I think) you could be slightly off and it should not be a problem...if you you are a lot off I guess it can only correct so much...


----------



## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

bump?
damn this post was started mid-april!!!
Anywho
LIL update here:
My car no longer requires two starts in the AM...hasn't for the past month...no idea why, I haven't changed anything or cleaned anything...it just stopped pull that crap on me.
Wish I had more of an educational bump.....buuuuuuuuut I dont.








And yes...it still bucks like whoa


----------



## turbotrixie (Jun 22, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

yea...this is definitly the never ending thread...


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (turbotrixie)*

quote:[HR][/HR]yea...this is definitly the never ending thread...[HR][/HR]​welp...its ended
Found the problem...spark plug...note...just one plug
Originally I think my plugs were gummed up...as we know I replaced them with bosch silver
Well, low and behold, I find out today...like 5 months later?...that I overtorqued #4...
Via engine vibrations it has worked its way loose, and I looked today and it was held in by like 1/4 of the threads. take it out to find that the f'in hole is stripped....forced it in to get home as I was an hour away....no CEL, no codes...but a noticable mis-fire...where? ~2000RPM


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Awesome! I'm glad you finally found out the problem, even though it took such a long time. In the end its usually the simple things that are overlooked







Congrats, now go have a


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## vwman099 (Sep 27, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Wow, I am amazed! Glad to hear you got it taken care of!!!!


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## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I had posted here months ago with a similar problem, and just learned from the new owner (I got sick of trying to figure it out







) that they fixed the problem. I thought someone searching the archives may benefit from their findings.
The new owner said he replaced the "idle stabilizer" filter (new one on me!) which cost about $20 and it runs fiine now.


----------



## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Funney I posted that on the First Page


----------



## aebad (Dec 28, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (PrupleGTI)*

Did you post about the "idle stabilization filter"? I missed that. I saw your post about plugs, and replaced them, but it didn't help me.


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## 2k1gteye (Jun 25, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (aebad)*

Wow! this thread has been extremely informative...thanks to all who have documented so much work.
My 95 2.slow has recently started acting similarly to the symptoms mentioned throughout. Mine threw the codes for MAF and o2 sensor. I replaced both of these and the PVC valve. Little has changed except that now I'm not getting a CEL. (BTW the dealer quoted me 1,000 bucks for parts and labor....did it myself for a couple hundred in about 2 hours including beer drinking and cleaning up).
It really idles rough especially from a cold start and seems like it is misfiring. I get hesitation and bucking in early rpms in every gear but 5th. Idle is unstable until the car get's warmed up and then it stays at about 800. I am definetely going to try some of the suggestions made here.
Two things that haven't been mentioned, unless I overlooked them, that mine is doing is when I first start it up I get a lot of white smoke out of the exhaust for a short period of time, and also somtimes I can smell something that smells hot or like burning oil almost...smell is prominent around the air box. 
Also would anyone be kind enough to tell me what and where are the IAC and EGR are...I'm sure some cleaning is definetely in order!!!
Any help or suggestions about what to check first (Since there are so many things) would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!


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## 948v (Jun 30, 2003)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

the saga continues....keep us updated,ive had the same problem fr months now


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## jimi1 (Aug 12, 2003)

My car is doing pretty much the same thing
new wires
rotor
cap
plugs (bosch as per bosch charts)
Collant Temp Sensor
Enginer Temp Sensor
cleaned MAF
new PCV and cleaned breather hose
Where is the IAC? I want to clean it afetr reading this thread.


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## vwgtirob (Aug 16, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pagano* »_welp...its ended
Found the problem...spark plug...note...just one plug

Holy ish. I think I'm going to cry!


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwgtirob)*

bump for giggles...
I think this post, in one way or another, covers EVERYTHING that can be replaced or cleaned on the 2.0L engine


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Excellent thread for any newbie!


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well, I am newbie. I've been lurking here for the past few weeks since I've started having this bucking problem. I'm so happy that this story has a happy ending...this thread was one of the best books I've ever read. My '97 Jetta is going in tomorrow for what I thought was an undefinable throttle problem at best, ECU problem at worst.
Looks like the first thing I'll be getting are some new spark plugs.


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

YOU'RE supposed to do it! You now have the knowledge!


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*THE BATTERY DID IT!!!*

Also posted this in the 1.8L forum, as there is a nearly identical thread over there:
POSSIBLE SOLUTION:
I had a technician I know look at my car last week and he was stumped. He said that all indications were that I was having a problem with my throttle position sensor, but that there no codes stored confitming that.
He just called me at 8:00 this morning and told me that he went to a seminar this weekend, and one of the topics was this "bucking, hesitation" problem, specifically with 1996-1999 2.0 Jettas w/OBD2. Apparently, this problem may be caused by the BATTERY BEING DISCONNECTED for any period of time. In my case, the battery was disconnected 3 weeks ago when my starter motor was replaced. When the battery is disconnected, some stored memory in the ECU is erased so that the throttle sensor does not correctly guage whether it is closed or wide open.
Apperently if you have a scanner with up-to-date software, there is is a fairly simple way to reset the ECU to "Basic Settings" (he showed me a bulletin that he received at this seminar, and it looked like there were 4-5 steps). This will supposedly cure the bucking/hesitation problems and perhaps other driveability issues. 
I'm sorry if I haven't explained this very accurately (I'm a musician, not a technician). I'll let you know later on if this works. It could be much easier than replacing every component under the hood.


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

I'll be damned! A couple of years ago my car ran like crap after a timing belt change by an independent (cheap!) shop. I took it to the dealer who readjusted the timing belt and cleared the camshaft position sensor code. However, he said there was one code he could not clear. It was the code for the throttle position sensor, and he said that it was like the sensor was saying the throttle was constantly wide open (I can't remember the voltage he quoted me). Well, the car drove fine after that, with a CEL, until my coil went bad last summer. But when the codes were read for that problem, no code for the TPS came up. I don't know what my point is other than the car ran fine with the TPS code.


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## dubitfast (Mar 10, 2004)

*congradulations sir*

sir, I solute you in your conquest to figuring out your problem. You are well on your way to being a fine dub driving fool. Been one for a while my self. To make you feel better i have been battling a Nissan altima for my parents for a long time now. And the thing has the worst miss ever. I just cracks me up how a machine can just get a bug in its ass and not work. Well i have replaced every thing like you and nothing. Runs worse than ever. Dies constantly at every stop. well congradulations to your finding and good luck with your dub. 
Keep on dubbing it.


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: congradulations sir (dubitfast)*

Well, I got my car back yesterday and it drives great (or should I say: "It drives exactly like it did before the battery was disconnected".) I'm not sure exactly what the process was for restoring "basic settings", but if you have a scanner with the lastest software then this is definitely worth a try...ESPECIALLY if you know that your battery has been disconnected recently. If anyone is in the North Jersey/NYC area and doesn't own a scanner, I'll be happy to give you the name and address of the tech. who figured this out for me.
Next step: Return to the dealership and raise a stink over the $200 they charged me to "diagnose" this problem with no success. If an independent tech. can figure this out by going to a weekend seminar, then why can't the "certified VW mechanics" figure it out???


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## powaking (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: congradulations sir (Nazareth33)*

I bought my car used in 98. Its a 97 Jetta. Been doing the bucking in the 2000-3000rpm range in any gear since then. Have tried numerous things (MAF swap, replacing O2 sensors [CEL keeps coming on for 2nd O2 sensor even though I replaced it with a new one] 2 full tuneups, etc....)
Car now has 93,000 miles (had 2000 when I bought it). Have pretty much learned to learn with it.
Anyone know of any good VW mechanics in southeastern mass?


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## A3dOUde (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: congradulations sir (powaking)*

a friend of mine's jetta 2.0 and my modified 2.0 do a similar problem... Difference, cars starts well on first try. And it does this "beginner in stickshifting" trouble when starting the car at a stop and from around 1500-2500rpm...
since it does it once in a while... I've also decide to live with it


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: congradulations sir (A3dOUde)*

I'm tellin you guys, it's most likely because the battery was disconnected. I know it may sound stupid, but that's what causes the Throttle Position Sensor to act crazy. Once "Basic Settings" are restored the car will drive like new.
As for mechanics in Mass. if you feel like taking a ride to Westboro, Colonial Volkswagen on Rt. 9 is very good. I bought my car from them and have been very pleased with their service department.


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## powaking (Feb 26, 2003)

Westboro is about 50-60 minutes away. I'm in the Fall River area.


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## sharkytm (Jul 6, 2003)

STICKY THIS! 
I know personally of a dozen or so folks with the problem. I've had it, still do. Make this a permanent fixture on the 2.0 Forums. If not, i'm gonna download the entire thing, and mirror it.


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## Nazareth33 (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (sharkytm)*

There's also a similar thread in the 1.8 Forum. This problem is not exclusive to 2.0 engines. It's very likely a common problem, not only with Volkswagens, but with all European post-1996 OBD2's.


----------



## sharkytm (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: (Nazareth33)*

i managed to fix my irregular misfire by reverting back to factory plugs, and would suggest that as a first thing to do.


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## Pagano (Sep 24, 2001)

*Re: congradulations sir (dubitfast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubitfast* »_sir, I solute you in your conquest to figuring out your problem. You are well on your way to being a fine dub driving fool.Keep on dubbing it.

That was 2 years ago...so what am I now?


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## rainfairy (Mar 31, 2004)

A survivor! You could publish this ... hmmm, how many of us have printed it up and bound it into a handy manual for the ages? "Pagano's Purgatory"


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## 8vbunny (Oct 2, 2002)

*Re: (rainfairy)*

damn i read the whole thing odd stuff i must say, i am using a 2.0 ob1 head on my pg block along with a turbo, my car does the same thing over 2500, it sputters and seems like it misfiring and it basically dies off.i am running the digi 1 ecu and harness. it may be the cam timing since i am using the g60 valve cover and i am kinda winging it, but the odd thing is that at idle and at 0 dizzy timing i get 17 hg of vaccum, where i would have gotten 8 hg. odd. plugs are new, along with the wires, i dont get AF gauge cycle as well so that is kinda troubling.


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## sharkytm (Jul 6, 2003)

ToTheTop


----------



## sumo (Nov 9, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I have learned this lesson in software/Web development. If you struggle with a problem that you are convinced is probably something simple, walk away from it and do something else. It's amazing how the mind (and luck) works. A little while of not stressing over it and the answer is always revealed!
Good job, btw. I am going to be checking my plugs soon. I replaced them, oh, 2 years ago, and it was the first time I ever did it myself. I might want to check those again...









_Quote, originally posted by *Pagano* »_<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>yea...this is definitly the never ending thread...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
welp...its ended
Found the problem...spark plug...note...just one plug
Originally I think my plugs were gummed up...as we know I replaced them with bosch silver
Well, low and behold, I find out today...like 5 months later?...that I overtorqued #4...
Via engine vibrations it has worked its way loose, and I looked today and it was held in by like 1/4 of the threads. take it out to find that the f'in hole is stripped....forced it in to get home as I was an hour away....no CEL, no codes...but a noticable mis-fire...where? ~2000RPM


----------



## Bill95GL (Sep 5, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

Well, just one more possibility for bucking...my 95 Golf with 95000 miles on it has always had a cold weather startup miss (I bought it in 1999). If I don't let it idle for 45 seconds after I start it below 50 F it will miss and blow smoke out the exhaust (going to full rich). In the last couple years, it started intermittently doing the same thing on warmer days. Last September, it had an episode of bucking after making a tight turn with less than 1/4 tank. Then in the past couple months, that got worse. I replaced the fuel pump and the tight turn problem is gone. And the startup miss also seems to be gone although I'll have to wait for cold weather to be sure. The pump cost $187 at germanautoparts.com and included a new fuel level sensor which was also broken on my car. 
Last summer and the summer before - on a single (extremely hot) day, the car displayed severe bucking when accelerating away from traffic lights. I ran two tanks of Techron through it each time and the problem was gone. The first time I also did the usual "everthing" (new plugs, wires, rotor, cap, oxygen sensor, cleaned throttle body, ICV, EGR valve, etc.) After the second epidose, I assumed it was dirty (cooked from heat) injectors and have been intending to send the injectors to cleaninjectors.com for cleaning but have procrastinated. Now I'm wondering if the fuel pump was behind the bucking or contributed to it.
For those of you who haven't seen an A3 2.0 fuel pump, the actual pump is about as big as a small orange juice can but is surrounded by a large cubical ribbed plastic housing. The pump is suspended in the center of the assembly by a rubber membrane top and bottom. What killed my pump was that the rubber membrace split on both ends. Apparently it keeps a steady supply of fuel around the pump.
So, time will tell. Interestingly, on the rare occasions that I have seen discussions about bad fuel pumps, they have involved 95s. I wonder if there was a bad run of pumps that year?
By the way, if you ever replace the pump, it might be worth knowing that Bentley leaves out a critical step in the manual. They neglect to mention that you have to rotate the pump about 30 degrees CCW and unlock it from the tank before you "lift it out."


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## veedublvr (Feb 2, 2001)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Bill95GL)*

I just did the pump swap myself . Fixed all of my symptoms. It seems that they just dont die, they seem to just kinda work, till you get angry and pull it out... 
PS i found out about the rotation of the pump from the chilton's manual, since the bentley didnt help either...


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (abt cup)*

After reading this entire thread one afternoon at work, I've decided to bring it back to life.
I have the exact same symptoms as Pagano, BUT, I took my car to a vw dealership, put it on the vag, and NO codes were pulled. They just looked at me like, "what, there are no codes, it runs fine..." Anyway, I left and went back home (3hr drive) and had my local vw mechanic replace my exhaust manifold, which cracked caused from back pressure of my cat not being able to pass the hoards of gasoline flowing through my exhaust system, from the car running too rich.
I then took it to my local mechanic who also has a vag, and he pulled code "16486, DTC - Sporadic low voltage to mass air flow sensor"
I was like eh.... I just replaced the MAF so that can't be it. So I've been trying to figure out the problem. I know it's electrical. At this point it's a relay, ( I have a ECM Power relay on order from techtonics ) or it's the ECM (techtonics chipped, problem existed before aftermarket chip) or it's a wiring problem somewhere, that I haven't been able to find.
I've ripped the tape off of ALL the electrical in my engine bay, from MAF, to the ECM, to throttle body, to distributor cap etc etc etc, to no avail.
My problem is exactly like Pagano's, except that I know my spark plugs are fine, and were just replaced recently by Quality Bosch. The last NGK's I had, were completely yellow tipped from the lean/rich behavior of my car (sporadic low voltage to maf, which causes sporadic rich/lean tendencies)
ANyway, I actually have a DTC 16486 code pulled, but no CEL light.
Someone please give me some suggestions, I've posted about 20 times all across the vortex.
TIA, 
Casey


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## sharkytm (Jul 6, 2003)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

i'll look your post over at work, I can probably help.


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## DonL (Feb 28, 1999)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpeedRacer20* »_... I then took it to my local mechanic who also has a vag, and he pulled code "16486, DTC - Sporadic low voltage to mass air flow sensor"
I was like eh.... I just replaced the MAF so that can't be it. 
TIA, 
Casey 

The code was low voltage _to_ the MAF. If you send a sporadic low voltage signal to a brand new MAF, you'll still have that problem.
The challenge is going to be finding out where the voltage signals _come from_ (or how they're processed) and then why they're low.
Problems like this are a major PITA, I know. I chased a similar problem in the past on my `91 2.0L 16V, only to eventually find that the "brand new" distributor cap was bad. It was _brand new_, that couldn't be the problem, could it..?


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (DonL)*

Here's a link to a thread I started a few days ago, lists what I've replaced, and the lastest things I've done to try and fix this.
I also have a ECM Power relay on order from techtonicstuning, it'll be here Friday and I'll post once it's done
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1573294
I'm on all day Mon-Fri so I reply quickly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by SpeedRacer20 at 6:33 PM 9-9-2004_


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

By the way, as it has been going, my cap and rotor have some serious (carbon?) buildup on the points inside. I've replaced 3 Made in Mexico cap/rotor, and have recently put on Bosch.
I have also been going through plugs like there's no tomorrow, they end up looking burnt/yellowish on the tips. I'm running new Bosch Silvers right now, and I'm sure the same crap will happen with them.
Again, I think this is a byproduct of my car running too lean/rich?..


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

May I also add, that when I bought the car the CEL was on, (was my first car and had no clue on mechanics) took the car home, and immediately installed my stereo.
To make this short I think my stereo "could" be causing this intermittent low voltage problem. The stereo is directly wired to the battery, so the ignition does not need to be on for the cdplayer, stock speakers, and amp/subwoofer to turn on.
I notice, completely randomly, that the sub and amp will turn on IMMEDIATELY with the rest of the system, but 95% of the time the sub and amp wait like 5 seconds to turn on.
I also notice as of late (could have been happening the whole time) that the sub will crackle when being pushed hard, and it is very quality speaker/sub (cerwin-vega 12'' 800watt and Alpine V12 400watt amp)
It never seemed to do that...
The sub has also over the years lost significant oomph, I've been turning up and up and up it's boost on the amp over time. The sub/amp will also intermittently gain/lose umph (power) and I don't know exactly what causes this either...
I know for a fact the amp/sub has been losing it's "power" over the past year since I've owned the car, so I disconnected the CD players power wire to the battery, disconnected the ground connection on the amp (grounds out on the trunk latch, which I thoroughly scratched the paint off of to ensure good ground.) and disconnected the amp's power to the battery, and drove the car to see if this fixed the ground/short... Didn't fix it..
Amp still gains/loses power, car still bucks, still get sporadic low voltage to MAF.
I'm starting to think somehow maybe there is a short/ground problem within my stereo job I did... So I checked all the wires from the stock radio harness to my cd player, and re-seated them, but the problem is still there, perhaps I didn't nail it last time I was in there.
I've traced the entire electrical system, from harness to harness, connector to connector, maf wire to ECM to throttle body, etc etc, and can find no problems. The ECM "looks" good, as I work at a computer board/card refurbishing company, and the technician said it visually has no problems. I cleaned the points on all electrical points/harnesses, on the ECM as well.
Have found every ground connection in the engine bay, and cleaned and reseated everyone as well.
Still have Stereo problem, car still bucks and runs rich/lean.
But if anyone thinks I'm on the right path here, let me know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by SpeedRacer20 at 10:34 PM 9-9-2004_


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

Replaced ECM Power relay (#109, a previous 109 power relay was not installed in the car) and there was absolutely no change.
Car still bucks while trying to maintain a constant speed in all gears especially 1st - 3rd, and also bucks when letting off of the throttle then gassing it again.
Still has an intermittent tink tink tink coming from inside the intake manifold, sometimes it's very loud, sometimes goes away (hydraulic lifter? misfires?)
Car has very bad sulphur smell exiting the tailpipe
Always starts right up, never dies
Randomly revs to 1100rpm's after coming to a stop, tach jumps up and down, then settles to 900-950.
By the way, my mechanic (who doesn't have a VAG) told me that he was pulling low voltage readings from #1 and #3 points on the mass air fuel sensor connector.
I then took it to the stealership and told him what my mechanic said, and he put the VAG on it and pulled absolutely no stored codes, no problems at all.
Took it straight home to another mechanic with a VAG, and he pulled 3 times "Sporadic low voltage to mass air flow sensor; DTC 16486"
Suggestions?










_Modified by SpeedRacer20 at 5:03 PM 9-20-2004_


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## vwfan43338 (Sep 20, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I am new to this forum because I am too cheap/stubborn to go back to the dealer








I am having these issues too, problem is that I do not know what a MAF, IAC, ECU, FPR, or EGR is or where to find them on my '96 Jetta 2.0l 8v. Any help would be appriciated!!! Thanks!!!


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## Sam Ontario (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwfan43338)*

You need to buy a Bentley Service Manual to identify all those parts. You can learn a lot from this book on how to check these parts if they are defective.


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vwfan43338)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwfan43338* »_I am new to this forum because I am too cheap/stubborn to go back to the dealer








I am having these issues too, problem is that I do not know what a MAF, IAC, ECU, FPR, or EGR is or where to find them on my '96 Jetta 2.0l 8v. Any help would be appriciated!!! Thanks!!!

 Well I don't believe we have an EGR on our cars, those were for cars up to '95. Those are called OBD-1, and '96 and above are OBD-2 (what we have)
The problem with these cars is that when they buck/hesitate/lose power/ idle incorrectly etc, it can be caused by 1 of 100 things.
Anywhere from a faulty ECM (or computer), bad ground, intake leak, MAF (mass air flow) Sensor, FPR, (fuel pressure regulator) TB (throttle body) or a bad connection between wiring harnesses.
What you need to do is get a do it yourself list that you don't have to spend any money doing.
The worst thing you could do is start slinging money around buying a bunch of new parts, just to continue having the problem.
Use the search feature on this website on how to check each of the parts on your car. You want to make sure that it's nothing a little basic maintenance wont fix e.g. spark plugs, distributor cap, rotor, fuel filter, air filter etc. If you end up not finding anything wrong, I'd put the car on a VAG to see if it pulls any codes.
If it does, then you will no which way to go as far as replacing expensive parts. You'll get a bunch of people saying a bunch of things to replace, but often it's as easy as reseating a ground connection in the engine bay, or using some electrical point cleaner on a wiring harness.


_Modified by SpeedRacer20 at 9:41 PM 9-20-2004_


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## Sam Ontario (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Sam Ontario)*

My problem solved. See the thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...96702


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Sam Ontario)*

I replaced my plug wires about 5k miles ago, and didn't seem to change anything.
I will admit that I put them on myself, and it was my first time doing plug wires, and a couple times I had to bend them a bit getting them to slide in under the manifold, but could I have damaged them?
Seems strange I replaced OEM with Blue Ignitors and still have the exact problem.
I will try exchanging for known good plug wires and see if that helps.
Keep the info coming http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Sam Ontario (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

Just start the engine at night time, open the hood and look carefully if you get arcing around coil, plugs and wires.


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Sam Ontario)*

Yea, I sprayed the shiz out of the distributor cap and also sprayed the coilpack to see if it made the idle change, but not a damn difference...
I wonder if I should spray the spark plug boots as well... if the plug wires were bad I don't know if shooting them with a water bottle would make the car idle differently so I knew that was the problem.


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

Bump.
And could a leak in the downpipe (if it was large enough) cause this sort of behavior, by throwing off the o2 sensor?


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

Could a leak in the downpipe underneath that sleeve cause the computer to take incorrect readings sporadically?

Bump.


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## vasillalov (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (liquidonline)*

I don't know much about the ABA and the earlier 2.0 engines. However I would like to point some things out:
1. WD-40 is a good water dispersant BUT it is designed for releazing stuck parts like stuck calipers and coroded bolts. WD-40 IS KNOWN to eat up rubber and plastic and polycarbonates. So I don't think it is a good idea to spray your wiring harneses!
2. The problem seems to be electrical. Some early VW's and some MK3s are know for having bad ground connections. I would replace all grounds in the engine bay with good some thick copper stranded wires. A custom wiring kit will definitely help. Not to mention that you can build one for under $20 USD from Lowes or Home Depot.
3. My final comment would be to simply check your throtle cable. It has a metal sleeve around it and the actual cable needs to move freely inside the sleeve guide. So it would be a good idea to remove it, clean it and lubricate it. I have seen cars with rusted out throtle cables that will get stuck and the rpms will stick too. 

Again, those are just suggestions from someone who had bad experiences with all of them.


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (vasillalov)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vasillalov* »_I don't know much about the ABA and the earlier 2.0 engines. However I would like to point some things out:
1. WD-40 is a good water dispersant BUT it is designed for releazing stuck parts like stuck calipers and coroded bolts. WD-40 IS KNOWN to eat up rubber and plastic and polycarbonates. So I don't think it is a good idea to spray your wiring harneses!

2. The problem seems to be electrical. Some early VW's and some MK3s are know for having bad ground connections. I would replace all grounds in the engine bay with good some thick copper stranded wires. A custom wiring kit will definitely help. Not to mention that you can build one for under $20 USD from Lowes or Home Depot.
3. My final comment would be to simply check your throtle cable. It has a metal sleeve around it and the actual cable needs to move freely inside the sleeve guide. So it would be a good idea to remove it, clean it and lubricate it. I have seen cars with rusted out throtle cables that will get stuck and the rpms will stick too. 

Again, those are just suggestions from someone who had bad experiences with all of them.


I didn't use WD-40 for the wiring harness, I used electrical point cleaner...
I've already gone over every single ground connection, checked them out, cleaned them very well, and reseated them.


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

Looking for responses

ttt.


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## Sam Ontario (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

Did you check arcing at *night* with the motor running and hood open! If you have already done that, pls ignore this message. If not, this is the very 1st thing you should do!


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Sam Ontario)*

I've checked for arcing at nite 2 times, but I guess I will try it again. I suppose when doing it, I watch the coilpack, cap/rotor and such?


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## Sam Ontario (Aug 12, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (SpeedRacer20)*

Most important is look around wires near the plug.


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## camarolover (Apr 9, 2002)

bump to keep this story alive, I have my own... i have 3 codes, 1 for MAF, one for IAC, and 1 for cam position sensor... the car seems to slip/lose it's idle (all the time) and sound like it's running on 3 cylinders. also backfires and runs rich as hell (when it's cold)
i'm staring at bosch plugs, wires, cap, rotor, and MAF's on its way.
i've cleaned the MAF, IAC, TB, intake manifold, and have no EGR....


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: (camarolover)*

This is the latest story on my situation, which is pretty much the same as it has been.
You might be interested in some info here.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1624903
Casey


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## SpeedRacer20 (Jan 7, 2004)

*Re: (8vbunny)*

I'm getting good feedback at the 2.0 forum, and the main discussion is going on there. The thread is going to be updated every day on my progress until it is *solved.*
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...24903
If your car bucks/hesitates/stinks/ or if the idle jumps up and down, join in. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## officerhuge14 (Sep 22, 2005)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (toenail)*

Wow.
My girlfriends car has been doing this since shortly after she bought it a few years ago. We brought it to the dealership (I know) and they replaced the timing belt and said that was definitely the problem, that it was worn and had slipped. It seemed to really make the car come alive, for a little while. Then the problem returned.
It is most noticeable on the interstate when going through tolls. Stop to pay the toll. Go to accelerate away from the toll and the car feels like it is momentarily starved for air, fuel or spark. It is sudden enough that both of us lurch forward in our seats as if the brakes were hit slightly, then, like an on switch, we're off to the races. Comes and goes at will, only after warmed up, only after coming to a stop and then accelerating again.
We have not had the starting problem, but the idle does randomly search and dip for no reason. Sometimes it won't happen for a week, other times it happens 5 days straight. The idle condition reminds me of a bad vacuum line I had on an old Civic. I've yet to try to replace these.
I wish you luck in finding the source of your problems. I'm just starting to look into ours seriously and will start with the vacuum lines. I'll be checking this thread to let you know of any progress and see what you've found.
Toenail

Hey My friend had this problem in her car she took it to the dealer and they told her it was a fuel injection problem, and that the injectors where having "hikups" there was some sort of like material lodged in the injector tube ,,..... after about a week it went away .... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VW97Jetta (Sep 5, 2002)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (officerhuge14)*

Hahahahahaha


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## ToiletMint (Aug 1, 2004)

holy smokes batman, I have the same problem, but I dont have a VAG in my area. Im going to replace my TB (TPS) to see if thats the problem. If not Im going to ohm out my injectors 14-21ohm's for obd2 injectors.


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## efcskatertrav (Sep 19, 2005)

My friend had the same problem. I think it was the throtle contorl sensor. Just wondering how it was fixed. I think what we did was disconnect the battery for about 20 mins. Then put the key in for 3 minutes BUT do NOT start it. Then turn it on and let it idle for about 3 mins.
Glad to see it is fixed though.


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## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (Pagano)*

I had a similar problem at idle in traffic.
Car would plunk idle way way way way down like it was gasping for life....
Then after about 2 MONTHS of this happening (broke college kid at the time) it finally threw a CEL. Did the good old OBDI blink code through the cluter trick and alas:
EGR System malfunction.
Brought it to VW, turns out I had a sticky EGR Valve as well as a vacum leak in one of the air tubs within the system. The Valve would not close during idle and the engine would choke.
I know you said you did all sorts of stuff to your EGR, but just go and replace it. I think the bill was 75 dollars parts+labor. Cheaper than a MAF wouldn't u say?


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## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (crashnburn987)*

any results? i have the same thing..


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (VW1990CORRADO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW1990CORRADO* »_any results? i have the same thing..
i mean...did you at least try to read the last few pages














look at the date on this post


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## VW1990CORRADO (Sep 30, 2000)

*Re: HELP!!! Car is bucking when low RPM Accelerating (the_q_jet)*

umm like ya....







i see the date....problems dont disapear with dates on all these vehicles......
he tightened a plug.
alot of others have the same problem READ 1995 OBD1 ABA
and thats one fix, not all of the others with it.
so unless you can help beat it


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