# Kessy Help.



## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Hello everyone. Another Kessy has been drowned due to clogged moon-roof drain. Last night, big storm lead to noticing my alarm going off. Went outside looking for a burglar and after I smelled burning electrical I decided it must be my car flipping out on its own. I grabbed my keys and tried unlocking it to no avail. Manually opened the door with the key in door method, and tried to start the car. Well the immobilizer message came on telling me to stop and it locked the key in the ignition. I grabbed my other keys and tried disabling the alarm to no avail. I still smelled a strong ionizing smell from the car so I popped the hood and could hear something buzzing or actuating. I couldn't really pinpoint where it was coming from as every few seconds my ear drums burst from the alarm going off. I believe I smelled it most from the driver side area between the fender and engine. Is that where the V8 starter is located? I never heard the car trying to start but I wouldn't be surprised if it was already burned out before I got out there. I manually opened the trunk with my other key and disconnected the LHS Battery, then started on the RHS Battery, it was extremely hot - which leads me even more to think it was trying to start the car. But isn't the problem when the Kessy tells the LHS battery to start the car as it never uses the timer and just continues to actuate the starter? Finally had both batteries disconnected and the alarm continued to go off for another 2-3 minutes. I'm guessing it has some third siren battery. I removed several undercarriage plugs and what a surprise, a bunch of water came flowing out. Well today I went out and pulled up the carpet and removed the Kessy. I took the PCB out and the black box it sits in was filled with a milky water. I stuffed some socks with rice and put them under the carpet to help dry the foam and other components around there. Then brought the Kessy inside. After some examination, It doesn't look too bad, there is definitely some corrosion and mineral deposits. I don't think I have the keyless entry, and I know I don't have push start. Might be that the proximity sensors have been ruined for a while. But wouldn't I have the buttons on the door handles if I had keyless? Also my PCB looks completely different than the one fixed by member WillemBal from the Netherlands. Now the biggest problem is that my car is parked in a way that towing would be impossible. So I'm left with repairing the Kessy unit. Unless I can order a new one somewhere and re-install it, I read that you can replace just one of the security system components without needing to connect to VW Internet at the dealership. Is this true? If so, do I still need to do some VCDS coding to the new PCB or is it a direct swap? I do not have a VCDS so I cannot scan and get anymore info. Next step I will be taking is to use electrical cleaner to remove as much salt residue as possible and try reusing it. 

Model of my Kessy







[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
My board, notice all the missing components of the one repaired, I dont even see any MOSFET to replace.







[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
This is the back side up close, you can see some of the residue around the points.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Any info is greatly appreciated guys. 


Jordan


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Jordan,

Congratulations on reacting so positively. I admire your determination and logical process.

If the KESSY was only dipped in water while powered up for an hour or two it might be physically intact, by which I mean that the thinner tracks should not have been dissolved by electrolysis. The photo shows it surprisingly intact. There was a risk of chip damage through overcurrent.

I quote Willem here: _"One more thing... When you are curious to see what's inside, please be aware that this is an electro-statically sensitive device (ESD). This means that touching the components without ESD protection (i.e. earthed wrist-strap) can destroy components. So please handle the board carefully, i.e. by holding the connector only (which is attached to the PCB). And don't touch the components without this ESD wrist strap."_

In general, drying a wet PCB is straightforward, just leave it on a conductive sheet in a warm place with low humidity for at least three days, or as many days as you can contain your curiosity, and adhere to Willem's advice when touching it.

It is well worth trying it after thorough drying, perhaps first resoldering any of the larger terminal points if they look suspicious. Replacement is probably helped if the old KESSY is capable of responding to a scan first.

That part number 3D0 909 135K was dropped and not replaced, which I take to mean that some kind of central programming of the new KESSY against a VIN which was included in the part number was dropped, rather than the later version of the virgin PCB is not available. The new number appears to be 7L0 909 137 CX 01P which lists around $500, but that info needs double-checking, I'm no expert.

If it comes to replacement, it is said that a new virgin KESSY can only be programmed once to a car's VIN. In other words, a previously-used one is more difficult or even impossible to fit.

Ross-Tech list one of the procedures here, but I do not know if it applies to the P.

The security system used in the power train CAN-bus allegedly allows replacement of one (only) component without re-establishing the CAN-bus keys. This does not refer to the programming of the car keys, just to the comms protocol.

At this point I am floundering and hope that someone with experience will chip in. I believe PowerDubs has done a KESSY swap.

There is currently another live question here on replacing a KESSY, from Steven: Phaeton new Start Access (Kessy) module coding. It is being replied to by a forum sponsor, see this web site: www.europeanpartsemporium.com

It may also be useful to talk with one of the security specialists listed on this web page who, according to some advertising, possibly have the capability to reverse engineer the coding on a used KESSY and transfer it to a new one.

Chris


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## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

Hi Jordan,
Sorry to hear another tale of KESSY woe. My question in the VCDS forum is specifically about the interaction of the soft/firmware and the antennas that poll for the presence of a an authorized key to allow access into the vehicle. 

Judging from the pictures you posted, I would hazard to guess that your car does not have the keyless access system where you can touch the door handle and the car unlocks. As such, my specific question doesn't pertain to your situation exactly, but I'll be happy to share what I've learned from doing research.

The security code for the KESSY module is absolutely necessary when doing a replacement and you're either at the mercy of the dealer or a high tech locksmith to gain access to the area of the controller where keys are authorized to the car. If you choose to replace the controller, you're looking at close to $1000. These controllers are ordered specific to the VIN of the car and leave the warehouse programmed. There is a sticker on the case indicating the preprogrammed VIN. To the best of my knowledge, a used controller won't work unless you know both the security code for your car and for the car from which the used controller came. Getting just one security code seems to be extremely difficult...I couldn't imagine trying to get two codes. 

It appears as though you don't have the keyless access. The MOSFETs that power the antennas would be located on the two silver ground planes at the lower left corner of the picture of the PCB. These are the components that could be easily repaired to restore keyless access but they don't affect the ability to unlock the car via the buttons on the remote nor do they prevent the car from starting with the key in the ignition switch. 

It may be less costly to replace this type of controller if the programming time doesn't take as long. I would be hesitant to reuse a water damaged KESSY. Willem could give you more insight regarding the tendency of electronics to fail after being water damaged. If it were me and my luck, I'd be on a trip hundreds of miles from home and one of the little surface mount guys on the PCB would decide to give up the ghost leaving me with a bricked car.

I'm happy to try to answer any other questions.

Best,
Steven


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## WillemBal (Nov 20, 2010)

EurodriverMK3 said:


> Is that where the V8 starter is located? I never heard the car trying to start but I wouldn't be surprised if it was already burned out before I got out there. I manually opened the trunk with my other key and disconnected the LHS Battery, then started on the RHS Battery, it was extremely hot - which leads me even more to think it was trying to start the car.


Hi Jordan,
The Kessy was probably trying to start the car as you suspected or at least energized the starter relay, causing a very high current. This could have led to a fire, so you are indeed very lucky that you did the right thing to prevent a disaster.



> Also my PCB looks completely different than the one fixed by member WillemBal from the Netherlands.


I fixed one that looks different and tried to on another one that looked the same. That one had much more corrosion deposits on it, which are actually caused by either drying it with the water that originally drained it or by leaving it installed for a too long time.
What I can recommend to do is to buy some distilled water and water wiper fluid with high IPA content (ISO-propyl alcohol) and then to remove the remaining corrosion products using a tooth brush. You can apply the same amount of force on the brush as you would when you brush your teeth, but keep the board immersed in the distilled water. Then refresh the water and repeat it. Take special care about hard to reach conductors, such as the connector pins. Final step is to immerse the board in the IPA and again brush with the (clean) tooth brush.
The biggest problem is that some electronics are contained in the metal housing, marked "11U".
It is a practically impossible task to remove the metal casing because there are a lot of soldering which all need to be de-soldered very carefully.

After the last cleaning step, leave it in a dry place overnight and avoid touching any metal components with your bare hands.
If this does not work, then the board was permanently damaged. The only way to solve the problem then is to buy a new Kessy and have it programmed by the VW dealer, preferably a Phaeton authorized one. Then make sure that you bring all your keys, as they they need to be matched to the Kessy, immobilizer and ECU by the dealer.

There is a thread about how to put the shift lever in the park in the neutral position. Tow people don´t know this little trick or don´t dare to do it, so they may damage things when they try to pull the car on a flatbed with blocked wheels.
I hope you can solve the problem by cleaning the PCB as described. It doesn´t look as bad as the one I´ve tried to repair.

Willlem


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Ok! Thanks for the input everyone! 

Here is the update. Dried out the PCB, washed it with a toothbrush and Isopropyl (before i read your detailed explanation, i kept my body grounded the best i could but I'm still worried I may have damaged it) however it came out very nice and new looking. I didn't notice any solder breaks so I left it in a tupperware filled with rice overnight and went out just now to test. 

I plugged it back in, went to the trunk and connected both batteries back. No alarm so that was a good thing. Went to the drivers door and pressed unlock on my key. Success! It unlocked and allowed me into the car. I was happy thus far. I sat down in the car and let it settle, listening for any buzzing noise or smelling anything burning. Nothing, except the dash still said stop ignition lock. I put the key in and turned it. The car started its usual routine with my seat and steering wheel, air vents opened up and radio turned on. No engine start though. 

Dash was beeping and telling me stop ignition lock still. So I flicked the key twice in hopes of trying to trick the car and using the accessory battery to start, thinking maybe the starter battery was just dead. Still nothing, accept the dash now said - Please start engine. So I tried again and nothing. I got out and locked the car up to try from step one. Unlocked, sat down, turned key. Nothing still. I could hear things going on in the engine bay and I could smell that electrical smell again just not as strong. 

Where is the starter located on the V8 model?? It sounded like some actuating going on near the center by the fire wall just below the throttle body. The smell seemed to also be coming from there. I checked my fuses and the starter fuse is fine. Only fuse that seemed blown was my secondary rear window heater. Interesting. 

Anyway, I find it funny that the car says stop ignition lock and please start engine at the same time. While allowing me to start all the accessories. I'm thinking there may be one or two small things wrong with the PCB, just enough to keep that last jolt of info to the ECU. It knows its me, and it allows me into the car and to listen to the radio but wont start.....but it wants to.... lol any thoughts? Ideas? Comments? 

Oh and I can turn the steering wheel too, and shift into any gear (when in D or S it says its in 3rd gear, strange to me). Thanks guys so far. Hoping this isn't going to be a big thing, my insurance sure isn't going to be happy....



Jordan


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Jordan,

"Please start engine" is Phaeton-speak for "the batteries are critically low".

"Stop ignition lock" is the instruction for the driver to Stop! because the car thinks that there is a problem with the ignition lock system that could cause the steering wheel or transmission lever to be mechanically disabled, with potentially disastrous results.

The ignition lock system includes the 110kHz key chip inductive loops, which are driven by the KESSY.

With low batteries there will be many DTCs recorded all over the car, and although the Stop! one is likely to be a genuine symptom of the KESSY problem it is also possible that it may clear, or be able to be cleared with a VCDS/VAG-COM, after the batteries are charged.

I would be wary of too many start trials if you can still smell that burned-up starter motor because the system is clearly still trying to activate it. There is still a fire risk.

Regarding KESSY replacement there are two folks who have reported their experiences with dealers and VW specialist non-dealers in this thread: Car won't unlock, recognize key, release key from ignition or start (wet controllers)

Posts #49 and 50 are also relevant, in relation to the fact that the programming a replacement KESSY can only be done by an authorised VW shop if the CAN-bus security keys need to be handled : here. There is also a report that water ingress through the firewall, as opposed to that through the floor pan, could also wet the onboard supply control unit.

Do you have access to a VCDS cable and a laptop, and an AGM-rated battery charger?

Chris


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Thank you for that info  I do not have a VCDS, my 4th VW and still don't have one. I don't know what I'm thinking lol. I called my insurance for a tow to the dealership here.

What do you mean disastrous results with the shift lever and steering lock? The car will allow me to change all gears and use tiptronic even (without actually changing numbers). The steering wheel will unlock when I turn the key to the Run position. Nothing happens when I turn to Start though. 

I don't smell too much of a strong electrical smell so I think its just residual lingering under the tarp I have over the car. I tried jump starting the car with my Golf to no avail. 

Because everything other than the Stop Ignition Lock and the car not starting, seems to be in working order. I am starting to think that maybe just a clearing of the codes and a good charge of the batteries might do the trick. 

The water is all dried up and I don't smell any mildew. As long as the starter isn't toast, the dealer should have her up and running in no time. Here's hoping lol. 

Hopefully they don't charge me to clear and charge. My deductible is 1000 so insurance wont do anything about that :/ Wish me an Iron Cross 


Jordan


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> What do you mean disastrous results with the shift lever and steering lock?


Hi Jordan,

I was not referring to your specific case, only the thoughts of dangerous conditions that might be discussed during the software specification meetings at the factory. A fault condition somewhere in the steering lock/transmission lock mechanisms that might conceivably lock the steering wheel while driving would be a critical failure.

I hope the garage comes up with a quick fix, and that it's the starter relay that has burned out rather than the starter motor!

Do keep us posted. Good luck,

Chris


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

ahhh I understand, well thank you. Your very correct, that would be a terrible outcome. The tow truck came today....... of course it wasn't a flatbed. I had to send him packing and am currently waiting on the correct equipment. I will take pictures of the process as its going to be quite the show. I will also fill everyone in on what the dealer says. I'm thankful I live near a Phaeton authorized dealer - just last week I was driving by and saw a beautiful Phaeton getting serviced.  High hopes for an easy outcome.



Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Well I have an update. Thanks to cowboy_ for coming down and helping me out, we successfully got the car started. It took a while but we were able to clear all the codes and get the car to start. 

There is still a short to ground code coming from the Kessy and a very very strong electrical odor coming from the engine bay. It isn't going away or getting any worse, its just constant. Not really a burning smell, more of a "overworked electrical motor" smell. 

At least I can drive it to my local shop and have him give it a once over. cowboy_ has the full scan results and once I get them, I'll post them on here and in the code section so the gurus can pick them apart and fill me in.  

Thanks again to coyboy_ for helping me out. My wallet and my Phaeton thank you!  I couldn't be happier.

I will keep you guys posted on any findings.


Jordan


coyboy_ and his black W12 and my V8.

 Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Oooooh - even my eyes were torn away from the unusual sight of the two lovely cars, to admire the sunshine and the trees!

Much of Northern Europe has not had a great start to the year. It is still unpleasantly cool and has been mostly cloudy for several months in UK. That photo makes me long to jump on a plane with the VCDS cable in the luggage!

Glad that you can get the car into the shop without a truck.

Chris


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks  your welcome to come whenever buddy  got an extra room for over the pond phaeton owners 



Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

something interesting. i now have the stop ignition message again. only it still starts and drives. the message never goes away but it start without issue and drives just fine. although when i stop and shut off the car, it won't release the key and sometimes says place shifter to park......even though it is in park. so i have to click the key to acc on and shift back to S and the back to P and then it will give me the key back. very interesting lol. I wonder if this is due to the short to ground fault the kessy keeps throwing, and maybe some of the low juice in the batteries. 


Jordan.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Just a thought- lift the center console panel that goes around the shifter and look underneath with a flashlight.

I've seen Phaeton's where this area is filled with water that finds it's way into the car. 

:beer:


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Ah, would make some sense. I will check that out. Thanks 



Jordan


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Hey Jordan,

It was nice meeting you. Sorry I didn't left the scan right there but I though in sending it to you over here, sadly I run this program and cable on a really old laptop (as you saw ) and the battery is pretty much useless. After you started the car we got excited about it and I forgot to shutdown the computer properly and lost the notepad I had with your scan. I don't know why I have the habit of Copy the Results of each scan and the paste it on notepad. But as I told you, if you want to scan the car again just stop by my house and we can scan it again.

By the way, I have to admit that I enjoyed a lot the color combination you have! I've seen others but the one you have is really really nice and you have the car in really nice shape.

Juan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Thank you kindly for the nice words Juan  I really like my color combo too, and other than the few issues I was telling you about, I love the condition she is in. No worries about the scan log, I didn't realize I could just buy a connector and use a lite version of VCDS, I'll get a rig soon enough. I appreciate you giving life back to the beast lol.

Now onto business. I checked the shift console and didn't find anything that looked like moisture so that is good. However I did see some issues with what I believe to be my tiptronic assembly. Check the pictures below. I would think I need to replace that magnetic bar as I'm sure that slides along the pcb under the cover and completes several circuits. There was plenty of dust all around to keep me believing no water has ever (recently) flooded there.

I also wanted to know what the extra connector that goes nowhere is to, see the picture. Im holding it between my fingers, its attached to the wire of the connector for my side mirrors I believe. Along with what the large black component at the underside/front of the cover, I am missing this. What option or component does this come with? Again, refer to the picture. 

I also took some pictures of the bits of the PCB, what do you all think of the condition? It looks a bit "used" to me but I am also used to million dollar circuit boards on intelligence spy planes that need to be spotless to work. 

At the end of the keyless start thread, the disclaimer (that should be at the beginning lol) claims its impossible to reattach the shifter without breaking something.  what is he talking about? I looked everything over and while it looks tricky to get the button back into the eyelet, I don't see where the damage comes from. Does anyone know this trick? I understand he says it can't be told, but I would atleast like to know what the trick is. I don't have a problem bringing it to the dealer but I'm not exactly sure what I'm not supposed to do lol. 

Pertaining to the magnetic assembly, anyone have a price for this piece? Do I have to buy the whole car from the dealer like some other components or is this a simple replacement? 

Now, Its raining today. I went out and popped the hood. Grabbed my trusty "Phaeton stop kill stick" and poked the driver side drain plug. NO water so I was happy. Went to the North American passenger side (facing the car- left side) and poked that drain plug. I hadn't checked this side before so I wanted to make sure I did today, well water DID come out. Not nearly the firehose force of the driver side when this all started, but enough to concern me. I think I should check the rear drains as-well. Is the driver side (kessy side) the largest problem causer??? 

Lastly, what is this speaker looking thing between the ashtrays? I took a picture of mine as its very very dirty looking. If its to do with the onstar than who cares but if its still used I would like to clean it up. Thanks.


Thank you everyone so far for the help here. I really don't want to loose this car from a few small but costly issues. The tranny is already having the 1st-2nd shutter issue (no idea how long it can go like that) and there are just a few other small things. After I get a full scan done, Ill start a new thread with all the points of my car. See what everyone thinks  Well, have a great day fellas. 


Jordan

What is this connector to? It was just tucked away.


Here is the magnetic strip, you see how the plating is separating. 


Here is the sliding piece for the tiptronic magnet. Can this be purchased separately? 


Here is the PCB, am I just paranoid or is this unusual looking?


Here is the opposite side of the PCB. Just dirty or fine?


Here is obviously the underside to the center console shift plate. See the missing rather large brick? Its on the thread for installing the keyless entry. Not sure if its an antenna or what.


Here is the speaker looking thing between the ashtrays.


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## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

Jordan,
Just a quick reply to answer two of your questions:

1. Regarding the "missing brick thing;" it is one of the keyless access/start antennas.

2. Regarding the "speaker looking thing;" it is the cabin temperature sensor. There's a little fan that helps to circulate air from the cabin across the sensor. While you've got it exposed, use some electronics or computer duster to clean the debris off of it.

Best,
Steven


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

StevenFT said:


> Jordan,
> Just a quick reply to answer two of your questions:
> 
> 1. Regarding the "missing brick thing;" it is one of the keyless access/start antennas.
> ...


Thanks! I really appreciate the info Steven :beer:

Jordan


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Jordan,

Thank you for that very helpful photo post. I agree, that PCB looks very poor in one region. Do you think it's heat damage or from some long-gone liquid?

As far as I know the mechanism can only be ordered complete, with versions depending on gearbox type. It's around $750. Of course there's the Polish spares connection, here or here where we can take pot luck for $150.

Chris


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Hmmm It might be, there is a decent amount of evidence of spilt coffee and what not from the previous owner. I am worried it might be close to toast. 

I would like to know if there is a way to test the PCB from resistance and voltage checks but I'm concerned that any poking will cause more damage and I have no idea what the values are. I'm going to take a few q-tips and ISO alcohol and clean it up a bit along with the surrounding areas. 

I'm still wondering how detrimental it is that the magnet be in perfect condition or if I can just possible coat it with something that will harden and keep it from crumbling to pieces in the future. 

I may just go ahead and see if it would be included in the insurance claim as the water damage could have sent it over the edge with a few surges. We will see. I am worried they may try and total the car but I don't know how they will value the car. If they use something like KBB that leaves me with between 6-8,000 dollars worth of damage. I was told the Kessy alone is a 3,000 unit. A call to my dealer may help make a decision. Thanks guys, keep the help coming on the rest.


Jordan


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Hey Jordan,

You have two cables on your hand, one is for the Kessy antenna, that one allows you to find the keys when you try to start the car and the other one (two holes in it) is to light your ash trays. 


Missing Ashtray Lights in Phaeton?











The speaker-looking "thing" is a sensor (called G56). You can remove it by just pulling out but DO NOT grab it from the sensor itself, use long pliers and gently pull back, you'll be able to remove it and clean that section. Behind that sensor there's a small fan (pretty clever, by the way) so air moves through the sensor to measure temperature.



















In regards to the plate to be in "perfect" condition I have my own opinion: This uses hall effect to detect the changes so it doesn't have to be COMPLETELY perfect to work (for theorist we can discuss this ) but just enough. Of course, if you have moving parts then you have problems. As long as you can have those parts in the right position you can "glue" them back (don't use glue, use something else until you are 100% sure that the position is the right one) and try and see if you still have problems. From the pictures I think you can re-use that plate without spending $700 on a new one.


I'm not sure if it is because of the photo but this two show some heavy corrosion:



















They could be dirty(you mentioned coffee) and if this is it, just by cleaning the surfaces you may solve your problem.


Juan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

*Update:*

UPDATE: Just received the quote on the complete repair. I was told the batteries and starter are fine. That starter is a monster :thumbup: However, the Kessy is a def (we knew that) and the shifter PCB needs replacing. Well I guess its the whole assembly. Here are the part numbers and the price list. See what you guys think.

Control Unit # 3D0-909-123-GX-01C Price - $739.50

(anyone know why its different than my original part # 3D0-909-135-K ? )

Shifter Part # 3D0-713-633-A Price - $295.80 

Labor to install & code - $603.32 

Thats after I paid $115.68 for diagnostic. 


So a total of $ 1754.30 


I had to pick the car up and bring it home because it still drives fine, just keeps telling me not to lol. It beeps and rings and flashes the security key on the dash and says things like ignition lock..... even though it accepts my key and starts just fine. I'm currently charging the batteries fully to see what that does. I do have the tranny issue from 1st to 2nd so I do need the shifter fixed as well so I can start in 2nd gear from a stop using the tiptronic. Until I can afford to replace the tranny as well. I can handle the shifter not working but I cant run the risk of being locked out at a gas station due to the kessy finally crapping out on me. Let me know what you guys think. Comments, concerns, or recommendations are appreciated. Thanks everyone.


Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Just ordered this:

http://www.dhgate.com/2013-newest-v...-ff8080813e4fa897013e8836bcb64ba9.html#s1-3-1

I don't see why it wont work with Ross-Tech software. I will upload a full scan later this month when it arrives.


Jordan


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

EurodriverMK3 said:


> Control Unit # 3D0-909-123-GX-01C Price - $739.50
> 
> (anyone know why its different than my original part # 3D0-909-135-K ? )
> 
> ...





I'll limit what I say, because the powers that be in the forum want us to keep a friendly attitude towards the dealers.

Lets just say, they are still charging rates based upon- if they can afford a Phaeton, they can afford to pay us.

Example #1- the shifter part # you listed is available online for $200 from Parts.com

Example #2- $600 labor to swap the parts and code? Even at $100 an hour, that would be a 6 hour job.. and this doesn't take anywhere near 6 hours to complete. 3 hours would be generous.

Good luck. :thumbup::beer:


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Interesting, thanks for your input. I thought the same thing on labor. Hell I already did all the work. The interior is completely dismantled for them. The tech even said, the shifter just pops right in. So I guess I'll do the install and then tow it to them for the coding. He also told me to get a VAG-COM because all my keys and everything would need to be recoded and everything else in the car too. I asked if that was included and they said no it would cost extra. Unfortunately thats the life of a Phaeton owner and the dealerships. They repeatedly said, its a phaeton its a specialty car blah blah lol. 


Jordan


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

The keys are coded at the time of Kessy install.


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

PowerDubs said:


> The keys are coded at the time of Kessy install.



So your telling me this tech really has no business working on my Phaeton?


Jordan


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Well, I didn't say that. I'm sure he'll figure it out eventually. 


Was he a tech when the cars were still sold new?


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Hey Jordan,

If you need to get the transmission replaced now if a perfect time to do it. A new transmission for a V8 costs $899 (just the transmission) I was about to buy one to have it as a spare part as the price is amazingly low (it normally costs $4700) but I just hang up with the dealership and they told me that the transmission is for a V8, just a heads up. 

AUTOM TRAN	01L-300-043-KX	$899


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

PowerDubs said:


> Well, I didn't say that. I'm sure he'll figure it out eventually.
> 
> 
> Was he a tech when the cars were still sold new?


Well considering he looked barely 20 I would say no way.

Jordan


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

cowboy_ said:


> Hey Jordan,
> 
> If you need to get the transmission replaced now if a perfect time to do it. A new transmission for a V8 costs $899 (just the transmission) I was about to buy one to have it as a spare part as the price is amazingly low (it normally costs $4700) but I just hang up with the dealership and they told me that the transmission is for a V8, just a heads up.
> 
> AUTOM TRAN	01L-300-043-KX	$899


Double check again... Online VW dealer site says $5600. But heck, if you can get it for $899... buy it immediately.


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

cowboy_ said:


> Hey Jordan,
> 
> If you need to get the transmission replaced now if a perfect time to do it. A new transmission for a V8 costs $899 (just the transmission) I was about to buy one to have it as a spare part as the price is amazingly low (it normally costs $4700) but I just hang up with the dealership and they told me that the transmission is for a V8, just a heads up.
> 
> AUTOM TRAN	01L-300-043-KX	$899


Thanks for the info, that just seems too good to be true. Are you sure thats not just a part of the tranny? Could it be that the new gen phaeton will be produced soon and they just want the space for new parts so they are pretty much just giving old parts away? I absolutely need to buy one if thats the case. I cant afford to buy it on top of the 1500 for repairs. We are moving out to Colorado after the summer and need almost $10,000 for that alone. But wow thats too good of a price to pass up. My tranny will need replacing within a year.... 


Jordan.


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Tiger0002 said:


> Double check again... Online VW dealer site says $5600. But heck, if you can get it for $899... buy it immediately.


http://www.oemparts4cars.com/proddetail.php?prod=01L-300-043-KX#.UZzqSLXVCSp


Is this truly the entire tranny?


Jordan.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

01L 300 043 KX is listed as "Phaeton 2003-2013" "5-speed automatic gearbox with interaxle differential - Model GXX" list $4k + Taxes

Chris


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

EurodriverMK3 said:


> http://www.oemparts4cars.com/proddetail.php?prod=01L-300-043-KX#.UZzqSLXVCSp
> 
> 
> Is this truly the entire tranny?
> ...



That is a whole transmission but not for Phaeton... this is a 5 speed auto tranny.... not sure which Audi it is used in or what year. That price is everyone selling at those prices... plus core charge of $1500.


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

So I am still SOL on a 900$ tranny? The 6spd still costs a small fortune lol. Thanks.



Jordan


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Mmm... I would call dealer to find out which car that is for. There is only one available at that price according to VW.


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Thanks for the input. I think I'm going to purchase the shifter PCB online and the Kessy from the Dealer. Install everything myself and then negotiate the price for coding the Kessy and Keys with them. I can easily do all the memory and limits of everything else to save more cash. Any ideas on this? Thanks.



Jordan.


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

EurodriverMK3 said:


> So I am still SOL on a 900$ tranny? The 6spd still costs a small fortune lol. Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan


I stopped by the dealer... that tranny was sold. It was a 5 speed tranny that will fit the W12 but he final gear ratio is wrong for the car.

The parts manager said that the outlet parts are great deals but doe some common parts may be hard to get as dealers do stock up on some of those parts that they think they can sell during the course of business.

I ordered a bunch of parts but didn't go crazy...


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

W12Canada said:


> It just spontaneously tried starting the car. The smoke wasn't thick at all though. My (very terrible) analogy would be that it was equal to a puff from a cigarette? I panicked because it wouldn't release my key so I had to run back inside, search the forums on how to remove the key and removed the key, manually opened the trunk and tried disconnecting the battery but by then, it just shut off.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Where on earth did you find a new Kessy for only $50? The dealer quoted me almost $800 for one. Is this a W12 price or something? Please tell me I'm not about to spend that much if not necessary? Thanks and good luck with the car. BTW my starter ran until it stopped just like yours. I had the strong electrical smell for days after. It has finally cleared up and my car starts just find. No smells after starting or funny noises. I would replace the Kessy and wait a while as long as you don't make any million dollar appointments unless you have 2nd transportation 



Jordan.


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## W12Canada (Nov 4, 2012)

EurodriverMK3 said:


> Where on earth did you find a new Kessy for only $50? The dealer quoted me almost $800 for one. Is this a W12 price or something? Please tell me I'm not about to spend that much if not necessary? Thanks and good luck with the car. BTW my starter ran until it stopped just like yours. I had the strong electrical smell for days after. It has finally cleared up and my car starts just find. No smells after starting or funny noises. I would replace the Kessy and wait a while as long as you don't make any million dollar appointments unless you have 2nd transportation
> 
> 
> 
> Jordan.


I have 2 other cars or 3 if you count the Bentley if I fly over to Vancouver and grab my grand fathers.

I believe we share the same system as a Touareg and the Touareg's is the same as the Cayenne. I bid on the item at the last minute for $50.00 

Here's the link:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/161038803671?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

It literally said 15 minutes left when I came across it so I thought it was worth a shot for $50.00.

W12 Kessy, I was quoted $1000.00 and the part ships from Vancouver even though mine's a U.S. Model.

Quick update:
Calgary just flooded and I may have sustained more electrical damage (hopefully not because I disconnected the battery).

Insurance is going to cover it. My deductible is $100.00.
Hopefully they'll be okay with replacing the windshield as well because I wanted to do that for a while (I'm paying for glass coverage so might as well get it all done while the car's in the shop.
An adjuster will get back to me within 24-48 hours.


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

I see, ok great. Michael can you confirm this? Touareg is the same and the Touareg is the same as the Cayenne Kessy? 

Also to the OP unless your windshield is very beyond ok, I would recommend against a replacement unless VW does the job themselves and does not outsource the job. I have read that usually you receive much more damage to other components during the removal and new install of the windshield. I have a small chip in the far right center that I'm just living with due to this worry.



Jordan.


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

> Control Unit # 3D0-909-123-GX-01C Price - $739.50
> 
> (anyone know why its different than my original part # 3D0-909-135-K ? )



Does anyone have any input on this? I cant even find this new part number anywhere on the net on what car it goes to. Why would the dealer not just reorder the same P/N? 

I found this online 

4E0 909 131 A Component: Kessy FBS AUDID3 H04 0140 (2004> A8) 
3D0 909 131 J Component: Kessy 5550 (Phaeton -German) 
3D0 909 135 M Component: Kessy 6400 (2004> Phaeton W12 Canada) 
3D0 909 135 N Component: Kessy 6610 (Phaeton) 
3D0 909 135 K Component: Kessy 6400 (2004 Touareg) (Phaeton) 
3D0 909 135 L Component: Kessy 6400 (Bentley Continental GT - Phaeton US) 
3D0 909 135 R Component: Kessy 6610 (Bentley Continental GT - Canada) 
3D0 909 135 R Component: Kessy 6610 (2005 Touareg) 
3D0 909 135 R Component: Kessy 6610 (2005> Phaeton V8 - Canada) 
7L0 909 135 Component: Kessy 6700 (2006 Touareg) 
8K0 907 289 G Component: Kessy BCM2.01 H38 0251 (2008> S5) 
1K6 920 973 A Component: Kessy VDD 1610 (2007 Jetta V) 
3C0 905 861 G Component: Kessy ELV 027 0380 (2008 Passat 4 Motion) 
1K0 920 953 H Component: Kessy VDD 1610 (2007 Rabbit


I assume the different part numbers are for different features and options that each car posseses. Such as keyless entry. Well I have found several nicely priced Kessy units online but none match up exactly with my original part number. Can anyone shed some light on this? I do not have keyless so thats not a feature I'll loose for changing part numbers to say this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE...850&pid=100011&prg=1005&rk=1&sd=330894601316&

Will this Kessy work in my car? I also found this one which is identical but its a used part so from my understanding, its useless. 

http://www.usedautopartsyouneed.com...cayenne-keyless-entry-3d0-909-135-k-1545.html

Is that actually correct? Or can you use a used Kessy? If so, would I need the old PIN and is that easy to find without having the Porsche dealer having it on file with the original service records or something? Thanks everyone, just trying to keep from letting the dealer accidentally install the wrong part and also trying to keep from spending almost a grand on one part. I will definitely be sending the new Kessy here: http://www.liquipel.com/ and additionally water proofing the Kessy box myself to prevent this nonsense from ever reoccurring again. Thanks.



Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

This is out of my last post on my Kessy thread. Sorry if this is illegal by posting it twice, I just figured more eyes would help, and it still actually pertains to the above conversation.. Thanks everyone. 





> Control Unit # 3D0-909-123-GX-01C Price - $739.50
> 
> (anyone know why its different than my original part # 3D0-909-135-K ? )
> 
> ...




Jordan


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## W12Canada (Nov 4, 2012)

EurodriverMK3 said:


> This is out of my last post on my Kessy thread. Sorry if this is illegal by posting it twice, I just figured more eyes would help, and it still actually pertains to the above conversation.. Thanks everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I didn't know that forum members knew about liquipel!
I was just in Edmonton recently and got my phone done up in half an hour at their first North American store in West Edmonton Mall


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

EurodriverMK3 said:


> I assume the different part numbers are for different features and options that each car possesses. Such as keyless entry...


Hi Jordan:

That hypothesis is not quite accurate. It is probable that certain of the part numbers are simply supersessions of earlier software versions. It is also probable that different controller part numbers support different radio frequencies, or different immobilizer generations.

By way of example, my MY 2004 W12 Phaeton (a North American car, with keyless entry) was originally fitted with a KESSY with part number 3D0 909 135 M. This had software version 6400 in it. It was later replaced by part number 3D0 909 137 A, which had software version 6700 in it. The only operational difference between the two was that the later software version required that the brake pedal be depressed before the engine could be started.

Minor variations in the equipment fitted to the car, and the build nature of the car (for example, left or right hand drive, keyless access or not, engine type, transmission type) are handled by coding the module appropriately.

But, having said all that, I can't help you further by telling you which one of the various part numbers you have mentioned above would work in your car.

I believe (with fairly high confidence, although I would not want to bet the rent money on it) that as long as you have a compatible part number, you can fit a used KESSY controller to your car. But, be aware that the Engine Controller (controller 01), the Access and Start Controller (the KESSY, controller 07), the Instrument Cluster (controller 17) and the Immobilizer (a virtual controller, controller 25) all work together to authorize entry and starting. If any one of these controllers is replaced, the new controller needs to be re-adapted to the vehicle by a VW dealer, who hooks the car up to VW's head office by internet. You must have all the vehicle keys present at the time this is done - any keys not present will be disqualified from future use.

Michael


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Hmm, ok. Thank you for the response and the info. 

Now having taken all of that into consideration. If it were you PanEuropean. Would you try your luck and reprogram the used one that is the exact same model from the Porsche. The brand new Kessy but different model from the Porsche. The brand new one from VW even though its a completely different number. $199 gamble - $300 gamble - $750 route. Keep in mine, my "Phaeton" tech is barely old enough to drive, so I doubt he was around when they were sold and he has already shown me that he doesn't seem to know exactly what he is doing. 

This is purely what would you do Michael, in no way will my choice fall back negatively on you. I'm looking for a confidence vs chance vs cost opinion. Thanks for all the knowledge on this forum!



Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Myself personally, am thinking on trying out the used number matching one in hopes the tech can overwrite the existing coding and make it work for mine (even though I don't think it will work 100%) and if that doesn't work, just biting the bullet and buying what the dealer says to purchase. That is saying however that my tech isn't going to try and charge me 3 times labor for this relatively short coding process.



Jordan.


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## W12Canada (Nov 4, 2012)

If you can afford to, I would suggest getting it done correctly the first time.
I tried to change the air filter on my Phaeton and broke a a piece from my coolant.
$600 repair from VW after discounts.

I was quoted $1000.00 for the Kessy and a coding time of anywhere from 1-6 hours.
I would get the module, get it coated with liquipel then put it in the car.

Here's a picture of my Phaeton displayed on my iPhone which I've submerged in water after it has been treated by liquipel.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

W12Canada said:


> ...and a coding time of anywhere from 1-6 hours.


The coding (adaptation, actually) process is pretty simple, and normally takes about an hour. There are two steps to it when a controller that is involved in the security system is replaced:

1) *Code *the controller to match the vehicle type (i.e. vehicle configuration and options). This is quick, about 5 minutes using a VW scan tool. This *coding *process just sets the controller up so that it knows what other equipment on the car it needs to deal with, for example, type of engine, type of transmission, options fitted to the vehicle, stuff like that. The scan tools at the VW dealership have a 'guided functions' process that steps the technician through this.

2) *Adapt *the new controller to the vehicle security system. This *adaptation* process requires that the dealer connect their VW diagnostic scan tool to the vehicle, and also to the VW intranet via VPN. From this point on, the process is more or less the same as adapting a new key to a vehicle. In fact, if you need to get an additional key for your Phaeton, order it so that it can be adapted at the same time, this will save you having to pay an additional hour of labour to go through the whole process again to authorize the new key.

As I have mentioned before, when a new controller that is involved in the vehicle security system is installed (for example, an engine controller, access and start controller, instrument cluster, etc.), you have to bring all the vehicle keys with you. Any keys that are not present (and re-authorized) at the time the new controller is adapted will be disqualified from future use and will not work.

I am going to guess that the "up to 6 hours" that the VW dealer quote Kevin included the time required to physically install the KESSY, as well as to adapt it. As we all know, the KESSY is under the driver footwell, and quite a bit of disassembly is needed to get access to it. The thread Retrofitting Keyless Start to Phaetons that are equipped with Keyless Entry illustrates the process of getting access to the Kessy. It's about a half-day job the first time someone does it. Once you have done it a few times, you can get it done in 2 hours, assuming you have all the necessary parts on hand and don't encounter any problems. But, there are probably very few VW techs out there who have done this job in the recent past, so, about 4 hours just to re and re the controller sounds pretty reasonable to me.

Michael


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

PanEuropean said:


> The coding (adaptation, actually) process is pretty simple, and normally takes about an hour. There are two steps to it when a controller that is involved in the security system is replaced:
> 
> 1) *Code *the controller to match the vehicle type (i.e. vehicle configuration and options). This is quick, about 5 minutes using a VW scan tool. This *coding *process just sets the controller up so that it knows what other equipment on the car it needs to deal with, for example, type of engine, type of transmission, options fitted to the vehicle, stuff like that. The scan tools at the VW dealership have a 'guided functions' process that steps the technician through this.
> 
> ...



Great info! Thanks, although i do have to say, I removed my Kessy in roughly 15 minutes my first time and thats only because the carpet was so thick, I was convinced I was missing some sort of latch or screw. Now that I know, it would be around 5 minutes for me to do. I fully plan on doing the install myself and then just having the tech hook it up and code it. (maybe I'll post a DIY video of removing it)




Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

So anyone want to take a guess at why I was just given yet another part number for a kessy for my car from a completely different dealer? 3d0-909-137-gx-01c price - 744.94 vs the first dealer kessy part # - 3D0-909-123-GX-01C Price - $739.50

original part # 3D0-909-135-K


Am I doomed lol? The car drives just fine, but its throwing codes and makes a very intimidating notion that it doesnt want me to drive her lol like I'm trying to steal her. 

At least this time I wasn't quoted over 600$ for the job. They still cant get an exact shop repair time for the coding. They keep finding different times ranging from 1 hour to 2 hours coding time. I am doing the install of the new Kessy. They are fine with that. Thanks again fellas.


Jordan


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

W12Canada said:


> Here's a picture of my Phaeton displayed on my iPhone which I've submerged in water after it has been treated by Liquipel.


Hi Kevin:

Looking back at your unfortunate experience with the flooding in Calgary and having your Phaeton written off due to water damage, it might have been better if you had had the Phaeton coated in the Liquipel, and just left the iPhone (untreated) in your pocket.

Michael


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Michael, do you have any input on the multiple part numbers? Is this just a trim issue and they are just picking on that kinda works? They won't warranty the job anyway since I'm doing the install and it wasn't this particular dealer that did the diagnostic. So why don't I just buy a used Porsche Kessy for less than half the price? Thanks.


Jordan


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## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Does anyone have any input on the multiple part numbers?


Jordan.


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