# Reinventing the Wheel



## flowmastergfunk (May 31, 2007)

Hey CIS wizards! Short story long, I built a JH/ABA setup for an 89 cabriolet, ended up swapping everything over to a 79 rabbit diesel shell and integrated a knockbox setup out of an 86 GTI.

When I first got my cabby, it had a STUPID high idle. My solution? Delete all of the idle control crap in the engine bay:laugh: It worked, but then I had extra wires just dangling about

Time passes, cabby gets wrecked, everything gets swapped over to my new racecar project. In naive efforts to simplify the system, I started cutting out everything associated with the climate control, idle control and figured I would splice the cold start enrichment back in at another time. The problem was, I realized how many of these items splice off and run through eachother, not to mention how many devices used the same color wires:banghead:. What started as a simplification process QUICKLY turned into a nightmare!

So here we are! This is my current situation...

My car is delivering fuel, sparking and the static timing is set, respectively. My car attempted to start at first, but became flooded with fuel before running successfully. I gather this to be due to overfueling more so than weak spark.

As for details, the cold start valve is not hooked up to anything except the fuel line. As far as I know, this is not the problem because the cold start valve stays closed unless given power. Correct?

I am missing my oxs thermo switch and thermo time switch and I have not yet harvested new ones. I temporarily have the ports in the coolant flange just plugged to hold pressure I think these are more so related directly to the use of the CSV (cold start enrichment relay, hot pulse relay), than the function of the o2 or CPR....but I have been wrong plenty of times before. The hot pulse and CSV crap has been completely removed for the time being. 

The main items I suspect are causing my over fueling are fairly obvious, but due to inability to decipher the diagrams properly I am not exactly sure how to wire up my o2, WUR and aux air regulator. I am moderately ashamed due to my electronic diagnostic experience and certification.  The only thing hooked up to the oxs control unit with certainty is the frequency valve. I have yet to hook up the rest because I want to wire it up right the first time. I don't want to redo work if I don't have to

So here is a copy of the schematic I am working with right now(NOTE: This is not yet edited to include my integration of the knockbox. Also, my setup only has one main fuel pump and no transfer pump.)


















My main question lies between the right portion of page two, as well as the right portion of page 3.

Looking to the right of page 3, we can note that power travels from fuse 5, connection e14, via a red wire with a white stripe to the CPR, where it grounds at the point labeled 46. The aux air regulator shares that same power source (or so it appears). The transfer pump is of no interest for this application 

This is where I am lost...

If you follow the R/W power wire north from the aux air regulator, you see the number 27 in a white box. 
On page 2, you see that the o2 grounds at a point labeled 27. The power source for the R/W wire going to the o2 starts from a white box labled 46, which is the same as the ground point for the aforementioned devices.
Are these units all wired in parallel from the same red and white wire? It is very confusing to me the way these are labled. It almost looks like the brown wire coming FROM the o2 grounds out location "27", yet the white box with "27" on page 3 makes me wonder if it is suggesting that it be run in series. 

I tried not to make a confusing explanation, but that pretty much explains EXACTLY why I am confused in the first place. 

Any advice or direction for this snag would be greatly appreciated!

For the record, I do have a innovate lc-1 setup on the way as well as a good fuel pressure test kit. I do intend to reincorporate the CSV using a similar fuel enrichment module as shown in this sector of the forum. I am not concerned about legalities for smog approved setups. This is to be my little racecar  I want a clean and simple (HAHA!) setup, not a bunch of extra hoses and wires.

I am working on an edited version of this diagram to show how my knockbox is spliced in and to show exactly what has been removed!

I have a link to my build thread in my sig if you need any background info.

Thank you for your time and expertise!


----------



## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

ok some details for CIS
since you have a JH head you are using the CIS setup.

the thermo time switch on the flange only activates the CSV
since yours isnt connected yet it wont do anything which is fine...

the lamda time switch only increases fuel when the engine is cold
not being connected again is fine and usually results in no change anyways..

not having an o2 signal at all can be bad, im not sure how bad
it should run in closed loop "limp mode" attempting to suggest a 50/50 mix


your AAR needs to close after the engine has warmed up
either the heat from the intake manifold or the coil power will (should) close it
otherwise it will run lean


your biggest concern will be the CPR/WUR
it at first runs a high pressure mix at cold start up then later runs a lower/moderate pressure when the engine has warmed up
as far as i know the coil remains active all the time that they key is in the ON position
same with the AAR, both are continuously powered when the car is running

unlike the TTS & CSV which only receive power when the Starter is kicked because thats the terminal for 12V for those systems



now if you think about it:
the CPR has increased the fuel pressure at a cold start up
the TTS & Oxygen Thermo Switch are running, the AAR is open to let more air
this system has MORE FUEL.
if the CPR is not changing and LOWERING THE PRESSURE you are going to run into a rich running car until the CPR coil heats up and lowers the pressure!
*
WIRE THE CPR/WUR...*


on another note
if you switch the fuel distributor over to CIS-E
that completely eliminates the CPR/WUR.
it might be more simple to approach than the CIS-lambda


----------



## flowmastergfunk (May 31, 2007)

Good lookin out hops!

You did bring to my attention the correlation between the o2 thermo switch and full throttle switch to the grey wire of the o2 control unit. As of now, the grey wire is not connected to anything. While previously, the WOT switch sent that signal to ground, my current audi coupe TB has 2 switches and 3 wires. Violet from the WOT to the knock box, Blue/White from the idle switch to the knock box and yellow from the "+" of the coil to the knock box. Makes me wonder if that wire wants anything to do with the "unused" gray/blue wire on the KB, but that is another chapter 

I was really wondering about the "switch" for the AAR and wondered how it turned on and off. After doing a hint more research (thanks to your advice), I realized that I skipped right past the answer when reading the bentley earlier. 

"*ELECTRIC CURRENT* warms the heating element and causes the bimetallic strip to deflect gradually, closing the rotary valve and cutting off the additional air"

:banghead:

I knew the WUR adapted as it warmed up, but I thought it did so strictly by soaking the heat through the block. Now, knowing that it operates in the same manor as the AAR, my symptoms seem even more obvious. I guess I should have dissected one of my extra WUR's by now! There wouldn't have been a question in my mind!

I did learn today that the o2 is generally ignored at startup anyways, so it truly appears that the WUR was the #1 problem that caused my flooding.

:beer::beer::beer::beer::beer::beer: I owe you a 6 pack for your help:thumbup:

I also figured out my own issue with reading the diagrams! The boxed numbers represent a column number, not necessarily a grounding point. Simply the fact that the r/w wire was going straight up, away from the AAR threw me off. Looking at the similar continuation through boxed numbers between the cold start enrichment relay and the idle boost control unit, I began to understand the methods that were used. I guess there wasn't enough coffee in the world to help me today hahaha

Just to confirm, this is the simplified circuit, as it should and shall be. Certainly a bit easier to read this way!









Hopefully this will aid me into getting this beast to start right up tomorrow! I don't suppose this will be the end of the thread though! I will post more details when I add my wideband setup and fuel enrichment. Hopefully my foolishness will help explain this system/process to another young dubber down the line:screwy:

I will go ahead and toss up another diagram when I photochop the KB into the schematic:thumbup:


----------



## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

well yeah there are several methods and symbols on the diagram which sometimes get lost

glad to help you think about how an AAR & CPR work
i have dismantled both and inspected them both as well as almost all the electronics on an early golf and late westy golf
lucky me!
also i have replaced...both! ha

so yeah the coil windings on the bimetalic strip are always powered and bend the metal to cause a difference
always powered when the key is ON.

which is a GOOD REASON why i made a switch to my radio
so now my radio is SWITCHED ON when they key is entirely removed.
switch the radio off, and its dead like it should be
because really....i got tired of sitting there with red lights on the dash and knowing so many engine parts were live with the key in and key on just to listen to the radio for an hour.....
radio operates in normal mode, or switched mode now w/ diode.


ah but how it is interesting that the CPR gets a power source from C and the fuel pump gets it from A
what is C? on the top of the diagram

i have gone over this once with my 78 checking all the connectors at various points
the CPR and AAR are getting 12v when the key is ON reguardless if the car is running


----------



## flowmastergfunk (May 31, 2007)

rabbitnothopper said:


> ah but how it is interesting that the CPR gets a power source from C and the fuel pump gets it from A
> what is C? on the top of the diagram
> 
> i have gone over this once with my 78 checking all the connectors at various points
> the CPR and AAR are getting 12v when the key is ON reguardless if the car is running


I am still not precisely sure ATM, but I think it has to do with the harness terminals in the fuse box. Although the wires are coming out in harness E pin 14, fuse 5 may be pulling its power from terminal c, inside the fuse box. This particular example is a little confusing because of the fuel pump relay being up in the shaded area as well.

But the key to the CPR and AAR having the same power source as the fuel pump, all 3 of them get power from source C, yet the CPR and AAR get power before the fuel pump starts to run? Ground side switching  the fuel pump has a separate ground that runs all the way back to the front. That is still strange that the two get full power before the car is running though! Seems like they would get warmed up extra fast if you were to sit in the car with the key on for a minute before cranking the starter. CIS version of glow plugs lol

I must say though, the Bentley isn't NEARLY as helpful as it should have been for this process. Granted, I couldn't have gotten this far without a Bentley, I still couldn't have gotten this far with JUST a Bentley! Without the fuse box panel pin out PDF from www.cabby-info.com, I would have been so painfully lost, that I would have just thrown my multimeter and moved on. It SHOWS the back of the fuse box, with all of the different harness terminals, has ALL of the pins numbered, and shows a description of each wire as well as listing the wire color. I don't know how Bentley could leave out such a tasty morsel of information! Maybe they don't expect a-holes like me to chop up a whole wiring harness and reinvent the wheel:laugh:
I definitely printed it out to keep in the back of my manual. It saved my a$$:thumbup:


----------



## rabbitnothopper (Oct 19, 2009)

youre using the cabriolet box you had instead of the rabbit diesel fusebox?

well you didnt mention that...although the wiring diagram did look strange


----------

