# Big Brake Update



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

Well I've been busting machinist butt (as much as I can for such nice guys) and got the hats all finished off. 
Here's a few pics to wet your whistle! (This means you Panzerwagen)
































































And hopefully the first set of brackets will be done tomorrow and the next set shortly thereafter


----------



## 01blacks4 (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: are those porshe rotors? im looking for new rotors (to add to existing hats)*

where did you get those?
thanks


----------



## NW4KQ driver (Nov 30, 2001)

*Re: are those porshe rotors? im looking for new rotors (01blacks4)*

Designed by billzcat1, Built by billzcat!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: are those porshe rotors? im looking for new rotors (NW4KQ driver)*

what he said


----------



## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: are those porshe rotors? im looking for new rotors (billzcat1)*

Billzcat1 tested, germanrox approved.®


----------



## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Those look awesome Richard http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## audipanzerwagen (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Get me a damn towel!!







I'm soaked from the drool!! HA! HA! HA! Billz, you IS the MAN!!
BTW some fool on the AW Forum heard you were gonna charge $1100 for the set! Is that true?
Gotta keep those speculators at bay Billz!








Looking forward for new developments!! Good Job, Man!


----------



## Group B (Apr 5, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*

Those look awesome. One question. I can't tell for sure in the pics, but are the rotor mounting holes ovalized to make them more of a "floating" type, to allow for expansion? Keep up the good work.








-Jared


----------



## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audipanzerwagen* »_Get me a damn towel!!







I'm soaked from the drool!! 

Drool? Sure.....


----------



## 02GTI1.8t (Aug 4, 2001)

wow, those are hot. i know what im buying when the time comes


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (duandcc)*

Thats my Kit Richard!








You know most parts/Aftermarket suppliers can provide anything but its the Attitude that wins my buisness.If i have to email you 3 and 5 times for a product and you have the attitude that i need you the seller and you dont need me the buyer than your going to have to bugger off.Fortunately for Richard he replied to my email at 2.07am after emailing him at 2am








The Attitude?Its there...perfect for buisness.Hope to be sporting a Billzcat Brake Upgrade soon.
Keep up the good work Richard.








p.s. Look out for 5 Hub ECONOMIC Conversion Kits!


----------



## audipanzerwagen (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (duandcc)*

Sorry to offend you. Didn't think complimenting Richard was frowned on here.











_Modified by duandcc at 3:11 PM 6-16-2004_


----------



## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*

Umm...cheap 5-lug conversion kits?! That would be major hot...make mine 4x108 to 5x112 please...


----------



## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *audipanzerwagen* »_Sorry to offend you. Didn't think complimenting Richard was frowned on here.








_Modified by duandcc at 3:11 PM 6-16-2004_

Sorry about that, rather than replying, I accidently hit the button to edit your reply.







Anyway, why do you think someone was offended? Complimementing Richard is a good thing... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (Group B)*

Indeed - I don't like to toot my own horn, but the machine work I have here is of much greater quality than all the big brake companies at Dubwars. It's silly too, because the only real difference is a finish cut, which takes less than a minute, and less than $1 in machine time. The hats from Brembo, AP, Alcon, Stoptech all look like turds.








To address questions: yes, the rotor mounting holes are ovalized to make it a full floating rotor. They will remain full floating up to 1000 degrees, at which point the hat would actually melt (7075 alu melts between 990 and 1175 *F) Hat temperatures will never even come close, but its good to be prepared.
And yes this is the first run, more will come in 4x108 fitment as well. 
Panzer - I think Duandcc was implying that your weren't wiping up *drool* per se


----------



## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_
Panzer - I think Duandcc was implying that your weren't wiping up *drool* per se









Exactly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Oh and pricing...not yet determined. $1100 is below my cost, but I might be able to whip something smaller up (to fit under a 16" wheel perhaps) that is closer to that price. 
Of course, price also depends on what people want to buy on their own! For instance, I could sell just the hat and bracket and let people buy the rest, but it's just so much easier for me and you to provide the whole kit.
One thing I like about the Porsche components is that they will always be available and you can even order pads, rotors, and rebuild kits from your Friendly Local Auto Parts Store.


----------



## 01blacks4 (Jun 16, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

yes they are awesome but what i was asking is about the rotors, not the hats, I know that you made those but i do not beleive that you would be casting your own rotors, which is what i was asking, are those porshe and if so what size.
thanks
they do look nice BTW


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (01blacks4)*

LOL I'm sorry I totally misread your post! As they say - if communication CAN break down, it will.
The rotors are from a Porsche 993 twin turbo. They are 322mm diameter, 32mm width, and weigh 17lbs 2 oz with no hat. With hat they weigh 18lbs 10 oz. With the original Porsche hat they weighed 21 lbs 10 oz (I think).


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_LOL I'm sorry I totally misread your post! As they say - if communication CAN break down, it will.
The rotors are from a Porsche 993 twin turbo. They are 322mm diameter, 32mm width, and weigh 17lbs 2 oz with no hat. With hat they weigh 18lbs 10 oz. With the original Porsche hat they weighed 21 lbs 10 oz (I think).









and what do stock Audi components weigh?
I heard that big brake kits make you loose over 30 Whp just because of the extra weight.


----------



## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_Indeed - I don't like to toot my own horn, but the machine work I have here is of much greater quality than all the big brake companies at Dubwars. It's silly too, because the only real difference is a finish cut, which takes less than a minute, and less than $1 in machine time. The hats from Brembo, AP, Alcon, Stoptech all look like turds.









The ECS Stage 3 brakes on my S4 has the poopiest looking hats, no where in bling quality like yours ;-) good thing I'll be trading up to your kit soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (Wizard-of-OD)*

To answer the almighty Wizza








Here are the weights of stock Coupe quattro components which I have in hand:
Slightly used rotor, 8,000 miles, no noticable wear: 15 lbs 4 oz
Dusty Girling G60 calipers, no pad: 13 lb 9 oz
Total per corner - 28lbs 13 oz
My kit
New rotor with hat and hardware: 18 lbs 10 oz
996 carrera caliper, no pad: 6 lbs 6 oz
or
996 twin turbo caliper, no pad: 6 lbs 10 oz
Bracket (weighing a bira bracket since mine aren't ready yet): 1 lb 4 oz
So we are looking at 26lb 4 oz to 26 lbs 8 oz depending on caliper choice.
The rotor increased in mass by 3 lbs 5 ounces, but overall unsprung weight is considerably less. Granted we haven't accounted for pad weight (I have no G60 pads to weigh) and of course however much fluid is held in the calipers.
Does changing to a 3 lb heavier wheel make you lose 30 wheel horsepower?







Heck even changing tires can make you gain or lose 3 lbs!


----------



## anthracitecgt (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Hey Billzcat, are you going to be at the Burien meet this year?


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (anthracitecgt)*

I most certainly am! Just look for the Audi that is 10 years older than anything else there







Then find the short guy who is talking to people and doesn't have a chance to ever check out the show


----------



## audipanzerwagen (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Billzcat, total numbnuts question. I have a set of 4 month old Drilled Zimmermans on my CQ. Will your caliper & bracket set work with the Zimmermans? Another goof question..the hats on your setup what zsize are they & will they fit behind 16" BBS RN's? Or will I need a spacer(ugh, no space)? I'm trying to get an image and understanding of what you will be coming out with.


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*

A)Highly unlikely. If it fit, it would be entirely coincidental








B)Defining exactly what wheels these will fit is rather difficult. It is entirely trial and error. However, my main reason for making these brakes in the first place was for my own problems with fitment. I have some dishy 17x8 et30 wheels and there is not much room behind the spokes. I had a BIRA System 2 that did not clear and I was much opposed to using a spacer since I already need fender rolling.
I moved the rotor centerline in a ways from the B5 S4 rotor and now it clears my wheels with no problem with the carrera calipers. With the twin turbo calipers, it is very very close, but still fits.
I would say these fit any 17" wheel because they have been moved so far away from the wheel face. The limiting factor on a 16" wheel is simply the inside diameter.


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Tomorrow I'm taking the whole hub assembly, my selection of calipers and blue prints and we are definetly busting out some caliper brackets. Woo!







Should only be about 90 degrees maybe I should take some more


----------



## audipanzerwagen (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Beer yes but coooolllldddd! Get a big plastic trash can, put a liner in it, fill it with ice put it on a 2 wheeler, fill the trash can with beer & wheel it to the machinist. He'll give you a big kiss!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*

bump














(cold of course)


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (Wizard-of-OD)*

Looooong day. Lots of setbacks because the CNC machines are all backed up and to top it off, all the lathes got moved to the bay next door yesterday. So the first set of brackets isn't perfect and came off the manual mill. Plus it was 90 degrees and we're in a steel-walled building!! 
OI anyway, the first brackets are done for 996 carrera calipers, and I have to make a few minor design revisions to it before production. 
Here's the pics!!








Notice I had to turn the strut-hub housing bolts around and point them forward? Yeah there was a clearance issue there...
































Yeah...they are yummy and I'm exhausted


----------



## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

outstanding Richard http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gidrew (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (MFZERO)*

sweet man....so you need 17's or bigger to run that kit?


----------



## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: Big Brake Update (gidrew)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gidrew* »_sweet man....so you need 17's or bigger to run that kit?

not necessarily.


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (SuperGroove)*

There are very few 16s that fit. Luckily enough, Paul's stock S4 wheels (16x8 ET40) do fit over both incarnations of the kit. General rule - if it fits a B5 S4, it fits these kits, but it should fit significantly more 17" wheels than a B5 S4 can use because I moved the rotor and caliper back quite a ways from where a stock S4 brake sits. Much more clearance.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Nice work man. Beautiful.


----------



## audipanzerwagen (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Beautiful, absolutely beautiful! But Gidrew's concern is also mine about the type of 16" wheel this kit will fit.
Is there a minimum offset that is needed? Should we with 16' wheels check the offset set into the wheel before we go forward with purchasing your kit Billzcat?








Don't want to waste your time or ours with buying your kit & then finding out it won't fit? Better to find out NOW before anything else, don't you agree?


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*

I am not going to claim any 16" wheels fit besides the 16x8 ET40 Ur-S4 wheels. There are simply too many wheels out there and there is no way for me to test them all! 
I gave these brakes as much clearance as I could behind the spokes, but some 16s will undoubtably be too small to clear the brakes radially. I recommend 17" wheels.


----------



## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billzcat1* »_I recommend 17" wheels. 
Check http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## audipanzerwagen (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Uh oh! I don't think I have that offset. I may have to double check. Going 17" is out of the question for me. One reason is that these BBS rims cost me a nut and a half to bring over from Germany BBS.
Second is living in the Midwest and it's bull**** roads especially in the winter precludes using anything bigger than 17's for comfort or for the integrity of the wheels. I'v already bent one rim. Thank God I bought 5 wheels just for this reason.


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Looks awesome...have you developed the stainless steel brake lines for those 996C2 puppies yet?


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (NoNonsense)*

Yeah, I have come up with a solution on the SS lines that should work on the front of the late B3 and all B4 cars. The biggest problem is mounting the lines to the strut! Since the forementioned cars have the hard line terminate ahead of the strut and the brake mounts behind it (and you have that 2-hose set on each corner) I came up with a way to replace the whole shebang, use the factory bracket, some small bushings, and two rubber grommets per hose. I just need to make the bushings still. Rendyx is going to be my test fitter for the standard kit, and I have another customer in NY (I swear that's where most of the cool Audi guys live) who is fitting the 996tt calipers with the single-hose replacement.


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (audipanzerwagen)*

Panzer -
I understand your trouble with poor roads and expensive wheels. Often, wheel requirements are the deciding factor in big brake upgrades.
Something with a more OEM approach you might want to look into.
RS2 brackets, 996 carrera calipers, and a Euro A8 rotor (314x30mm) is a direct bolt up on 5-luggers. For 4 luggers, you'd want to redrill the rotor. Also, it is recommended to machine 1mm off the caliper's pad support posts for adequate rotor clearance.


----------



## gidrew (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

damn right rich, you know all the audi guys are from NY







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

You better believe that the cool guys live in NY! haha Well, if you need my car for anything while you are here, just let me know because I am game to provide it. Just depends where in NY you will be. I'm in Manhattan and I'll only travel so far! hehe
I'm going the route with the RS2 bracket and Euro A8 rotor until I get some extra cash for the billzcat1 kit


----------



## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (gidrew)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gidrew* »_damn right rich, you know all the audi guys are from NY







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Second that!
Also, Joe, we should show Richard what NYC is all about when he comes around


----------



## gidrew (Mar 28, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (yumyjagermiester)*

Dude, where is Malden??? anyways depending on when rich comes out and where he flys into, the 4 of us should hit up NYC







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (gidrew)*

There, I changed it to the actual town I live in, Malden is a hamlet of Saugerties, exit 20 of the I87








Woodstock '94, remember


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (gidrew)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gidrew* »_Dude, where is Malden??? anyways depending on when rich comes out and where he flys into, the 4 of us should hit up NYC







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I am game...I live, work, eat and sleep everyday in NYC. Lets have a GTG! I'd invite you guys over my apartment, but it's the size of a glove compartment and feels overly crowded with more than me in it!








But we should definitely still gtg for a







or

















_Modified by NoNonsense at 7:47 AM 6-23-2004_


----------



## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (NoNonsense)*

Bump cause I think that is a good idea, and we are almost to 50. Anyone want to be a good little post whore and make the thread hit the big 5-O





















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: Big Brake Update (gidrew)*

I may have to come down for this







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (MFZERO)*

It's less than 4 hours Mike...Make the trip!!!


----------



## anthracitecgt (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: Big Brake Update (NoNonsense)*

Hey Richard, not that I could ever afford it, but would your kit work with PCCB rotors?


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (anthracitecgt)*

Thats a good question. Were PCCBs ever offered on 993s? I will admit I don't know a lot about PCCB brakes but if they are a 2 piece rotor of approximately the same size, I would be interested in getting ahold of one to play with


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

Hmm upon doing some looking around, the rotors are several thousand dollars. Which means I won't be touching them! However, they are 350x34 and weigh approximately 9 lbs


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Big Brake Update (billzcat1)*

9 lbs...that's fooking amazing at 350x34!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## billzcat1 (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: Big Brake Update (NoNonsense)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoNonsense* »_9 lbs...that's fooking amazing at 350x34!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Agreed! If any hi-roller Audi owners want one man they are going to have to buy them first! Then I'll make a brake kit because oddly enough I just don't have the extra 10k+ to sink into rotors for a kit I may never sell a single one of







But the good news is that I found the calipers on sale at Crescent Porsche - normal retail $978 each, now $550 each


----------

