# Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil?



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

I have a 2.0 jetta with an 020 trans in it.
and it has a slight grind when shifting into 2nd. 
(grinds when shifting 1st to 2nd but not when shifting 3rd to 2nd)???








Once it warms up a few miles down the road, the grind stops... 
so what im asking is: could a different gear oil fix this grind? (by possibly warming up faster??)


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil? (Michael Cahill)*

Does the car select reverse with no problems and zero noise during selection?


----------



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil? (Broke)*

Yes it selects reverse fine,
the 1st gear syncro is totally gone, and grind unless you stop. 
but 2nd only has a SLIGHT grind, and only when its cold.
1st isnt much of a problem because i can always stop, and then shift. (such as at a light) but 2nd is a problem because i dont really have the option of stopping ha ha








so im just hoping that i can get a different gear oil, that could provide the same lubricating properties, but can warm up much faster.
(i belive i have talked to you once before about this Broke)

_Modified by Michael Cahill at 10:08 PM 5-11-2008_


_Modified by Michael Cahill at 10:09 PM 5-11-2008_


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil? (Michael Cahill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Michael Cahill* »_Yes it selects reverse fine

Good, the clutch is fully disengaging, and the forward syncs aren't trying to fight the clutch http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Michael Cahill* »_so im just hoping that i can get a different gear oil, that could provide the same lubricating properties, but can warm up much faster.

A different oil won't hurt to try at all. Stay with GL4 rated oil, and in the 75-90 weight range, but experiment with various oils, to see what might work best in your trans, as each trans seems to be a little different. 
It might be that there is simply too much worn material missing for any oil to bring back 2nd gear fully for you, and the box would need opened and parts replaced to get it to shift properly again, but it doesn't hurt to try other oil, and you might get a few more miles out of 2nd gear.
Grinding is bad, and is wearing the actual gear, which would be more expensive to replace than just a worn 2nd gear sync ring, so if 2nd grinds too often, there will be damage to the actual gear, which is something to keep in mind.









_Quote, originally posted by *Michael Cahill* »_(i belive i have talked to you once before about this Broke)

Very possibly, my memory is shot








I get user names and real people names mixed up, although in your case, they appear to be the same, but yeah, my memory is gone


----------



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil? (Broke)*

ok ill try a differnt oil first then








now ive heard a lot about GM syncromesh... is that worth the try, or is any oil just as good as the next?








I would'nt so much call it a grind into 2nd, as much as i would call it a rough shift... you can slightly feel it in the shifter, and you can hear is slightly.
(obviously the sync is starting to ware out... but is there something else that could be causing this as well??)








now once it warms up... and the "grinding" goes away... is it still doing it even tho all the audiable signs have gone away?








ps. i have been skipping 2nd and going stright to 3rd whenever i can in the first few miles! It works pretty well because i live a ways out of the city... so i dont have to stop much!








Thanks for the answers!!








Michael


_Modified by Michael Cahill at 4:41 PM 5-12-2008_


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil? (Michael Cahill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Michael Cahill* »_now ive heard a lot about GM syncromesh... is that worth the try, or is any oil just as good as then next?









It is worth a try, lots of people have good luck with it.

_Quote, originally posted by *Michael Cahill* »_now once it warms up... and the "grinding" goes away... is it still doing it even tho all the audiable signs have gone away?









Once everything warms up, the friction coefficient changes and it usually shifts better.


----------



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil? (Broke)*

ok well i'll go give er a try then http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Michael


----------



## turbodrabbit (May 20, 2008)

I am having the same problem on my 2001, it has a nice grind from first to second. I guess I will try the gm synromesh.


----------



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (turbodrabbit)*

I just put in redline 75-90 wt...
(i went to the dealer to get the syncromesh, but they were closed, and another shop down the steet had this stuff for 9 bucks a QT, so i thought what the heck...
it did'nt do a thing! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif its the same as it was before... 
It may work for your tranny (ive heard it worked for some people)
but im gunna go pick up some syncromesh!








which ive heard, has done wonders for a bunch of people!
so i'll let ya know how it goes!


_Modified by Michael Cahill at 9:23 PM 5-19-2008_


----------



## GmrTpuffI (Mar 6, 2008)

i just put a new clutch in my 04 GTI and now i have grinding in 2nd gear when taking off hard could that be an adjustment to the linkage


----------



## Jetta2K76 (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: (GmrTpuffI)*

I've had this problem since day one of my car... I know years ago it was a common topic and just dismissed as a quirk of the car. My 2000 VR6 has 225,000 miles on the original clutch and it's had the 1st to 2nd gear "grind" ever since I drove the car off the lot brand new. It only happens on rare occasions, mainly during a speed shift or high-rpm shifting. Like you said, it's more of a rough shift than a true "grinding" of gears, but it doesn't sound pleasant either way.
I say as long as it doesn't do it every shift and only maybe once out of every 50 to 100 1st to 2nd gear shifts, I wouldn't worry about it. 
Like I said, 225,000 miles on mine and the tranny is just fine. (as is the rest of the car... great considering how much I beat it).


----------



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (Jetta2K76)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jetta2K76* »_My 2000 VR6 has 225,000 miles on the original clutch

DAMN







thats good man!

well an update on the syncromesh:
I filled up my tranny with it.. and from the literatly the FIRST SHIFT on, it only grinds if i speed shift. its almost compleatly better! (with the exception of a day when it was like 30 deg outside)








and first gear, which i thought the sycro was compleatly gone, is much better. it still grinds if im going faster than 15 mph however.
but hey... it would grind if i was even moving before!















to Syncromesh!!


_Modified by Michael Cahill at 4:38 PM 7-17-2008_


----------



## uNk1nd.8t (Mar 2, 2007)

*Re: (Michael Cahill)*

I had some issues in 3rd gear. I couldn't rev past 3k with out getting a nasty grind. I Bought some royal purple which meets gl4 and gl5 75-90 and I have 125,000k miles on the 20th. It took away 99% of the grind. If I beat it really hard liike probably 7K redline I might get a slight grind which is super rare. Other then that I am happy with royal purple







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


_Modified by uNk1nd.8t at 10:19 PM 7-17-2008_


----------



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (uNk1nd.8t)*

just beware, make sure whatever you get is a GL 4 or below.
because apparently GL 5 and higher has some sort of additive that actually eats away your sync rings...








just do a search on it and you'l find a ton of info on the whole topic. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vee wee 16vee (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (Michael Cahill)*

i have the same grind when i shift in to second. i found that if i hold the clutch in a second longer and shift fairly slow i have no grind. 
i am going to try the Syncromesh first thing tomorrow. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Michael Cahill (Mar 28, 2008)

*Re: (vee wee 16vee)*

the thing i noticed works well is:
If you shift slow, spend as much time in nutrual as possible.
ex: shifting from 2nd to 3rd... as soon as you hit the clutch, put it in nutrual, hang for a sec.. and put it in gear. 
and if that doesn't fix your grinding, try doubble clutching.
just do a search, and you can find info.


----------



## pretzelogic (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: (Michael Cahill)*

I have the same problem (grinding into 2nd when shifter faster) in my vr6. First i'll try gm's syncromesh


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (Michael Cahill)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Michael Cahill* »_the thing i noticed works well is:
If you shift slow, spend as much time in nutrual as possible.
ex: shifting from 2nd to 3rd... as soon as you hit the clutch, put it in nutrual, hang for a sec.. and put it in gear. 

To make it select a little faster, do the same thing you describe above, but during that pause time in between gears, hold the shifter so you are slightly pulling it into the next gear.
In your example, you'd pull it out of 2nd to go to 3rd, and while waiting between gears with your foot depressing the clutch pedal, instead of letting the shifter in the car just sit there without being touched, push and hold the shifter slightly up towards 3rd gear, without actually selecting it.
This will cause the sliding sleeve in the trans for 3rd gear to begin pressing against the brass sync ring and shoving it into the gear, and the friction process will start. 
Friction is what is missing out of everyone's trans that has shifting issues... a lack of friction results in needing more time to allow the shafts to spin up or slow down in order to match speeds so the shift can occur.
Changing the oil is changing the friction, and changing the shift. What might be wonderful for some (Redline) might not work in this box (Syncromesh) and this other trans may do best with a 3rd type of oil (Royal Purple), but it is the friction that changes, which changes how the shift happens.
Anyway, holding the shifter towards the next gear you want will push the brass ring against the gear, and friction will start and the gear will either speed up or slow down until it is going the same speed as the brass sync ring. Once the gear has changed speeds due to the friction of the ring, you can select it without any noise.
This is why a nice slow shift at low RPMs won't grind... the low RPM shift point means the "work" needed doing by the brass sync ring is less. It doesn't have to speed up or slow down the next gear as much as when you try to grab that gear at 6500 RPM or something








The slow selection by the driver gives the clutch more time to disengage the input shaft (so it can be sped up or slowed down as needed - thus why a bad clutch will make for poor shifting) and it gives the brass sync ring more time to generate the needed friction to change the speed of the input shaft, which is free to move because of the clutch operating properly.
I need to link this thread from my Oil Change page to show how various brands of oil can work differently in each trans based on how the trans is worn, how much it is worn, how the driver shifts it, where it is geographically as temps affect the oil, etc... oil can help with a grind, and if one oil doesn't, another might.
In the end though, no oil will replace missing metal, and if the sync ring is worn away and no longer causing the friction we need, then oil can help put a band-aid on the problem for a period of time, but nothing replaces worn metal other than a new part. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: (Broke)*

I changed the trans fluid on my R32 to redline MT90 and it made it shift substantially better. I am going to try it in my '97 Golf 2.slow and see what it does.
It has the 2nd gear grind if not shifting slow...but I guess that is to be expected after 165k. I've got to drop the trans anyway to do a clutch job so..


----------



## pretzelogic (Nov 14, 2009)

*Re: (PowerDubs)*

Called the local GM dealer they want $25 per quart







I heard Pennzoil syncromesh is almost identical; anyone have any info on this? Hows the red line stuff?


----------



## ogvr6 (Nov 4, 2004)

PowerDubs said:


> I changed the trans fluid on my R32 to redline MT90 and it made it shift substantially better. I am going to try it in my '97 Golf 2.slow and see what it does.
> It has the 2nd gear grind if not shifting slow...but I guess that is to be expected after 165k. I've got to drop the trans anyway to do a clutch job so..


 question did you do the clutch on your 97 and change fluid....any change in grinding into 2nd gear


----------



## daniell (Nov 27, 2009)

i have the same problem to my mk4 tdi 6 speed gearbox but it only makes noise in the morning when the car is still cold, it makes the noise when i put it to the second gear after 5 minutes driving the second gear is normal ,i changed the gearbox oil i replaced it with fuchs 75W90 but it still has the same noise when i put it to the second gear, my mechanic told me to change SYNCROS or the whole gearbox, i found a used gearbox for 500 euros i dont know if its better to replace the SYNCROS or to buy the used gearbox.


----------



## skibi (Feb 18, 2007)

My 03 mk.4 Golf 2.0L started to grinding noise when doing fast upshift from 1st to 2nd.
Now it has 232000 miles - noise is still there. 
Just slow down your gear changes.....save money for something else..


----------



## daniell (Nov 27, 2009)

skibi said:


> My 03 mk.4 Golf 2.0L started to grinding noise when doing fast upshift from 1st to 2nd.
> Now it has 232000 miles - noise is still there.
> Just slow down your gear changes.....save money for something else..



ok but can you brake the syncros driving like that, my car does it only when its cold, and does anyone how much are the new syncros for the second gear


----------



## skibi (Feb 18, 2007)

Well, I have no idea how much synchros will cost. I'm sure if you'll buy them from a dealer - it won't be cheap. I've never done transmission work myself and would rather opt for a swap....
But that's just me...
As I said before, I first noticed that at about 50k miles. After putting another 150k+ and teaching my daughter how to drive stick (it is her car now ) grinding is still present when trying to quick shift from 1st to 2nd. Car has original clutch thou with 233000 miles - maybe new one will help....but I doubt it.


----------



## bugsinmyteeth (Feb 8, 2006)

This is a great thread. Our 93 VR6 Corrado has had the crunch when shifting fast from 1-2 with the revs up since it was new. With 165 k miles it is still the same. We have run different synthetic fluids with no change. The pause as you move the shifter into 2nd that Broke suggests is the thing that helps when shifting fast at high RPM. I am currently using Redline MT90 as all other shifting feels smoother. 

I have switched a number of cars over to synthetics and sometimes had similar issues, I believe due to the syncros and gears not slowing down quickly enough. In some cases I have mixed half normal GL4 and half synthetic with some improvement to the crunch. Normal GL4 is a little hard to find and NAPA is the most consistent place I have found it.


----------



## disruptdesign (Jun 22, 2010)

I have an mk4 grinding when i speed shift into third. I'm not even releasing the clutch. wanted to know if others experienced the grind before actually releasing the clutch?


----------



## Robert Roberts (Jan 30, 2009)

Yes.


----------



## disruptdesign (Jun 22, 2010)

changing the oil didn't work for me.... wasn't really looking to replace the tran yet


----------



## gtx4tec (Oct 20, 2009)

I just changed my (manual transmission) gear oil to ACDelco Syncromesh - part #89021808. Same stuff as GM Synchromesh friction modified.

It has completely transformed the transmission and how the car drives and feels. 

I previously had Lubromoly 75W90 put in by a VW shop that highly recommended it.  

Anyhow, I started getting 1st - 2nd grinds about 6 months in.

I started reading around, and realized Lubromoly is a full synthetic GL5 not a GL4 (face palm). Anyhow, it's too slippery apparently, and doesn't allow enough friction for the synchros to grab.

Not a hard DIY job at all, and you can undo the plugs with a spare (17mm) lug nut rather than buying anything other than this beautiful dark golden miracle fluid.


----------



## disruptdesign (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm going to have to try it, the oil that i had put in two weeks ago made no improvement. I'm having the vw dealership scan the car. a hundred bucks for the full scan. I'll post what they say and what they would charge to fix it.


----------



## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

Scan the car as in fault code? ..

The syncrho is worn, if it's only grinding on fast engagements, advice is don't change gear fast.

Funny thing is that we all, buy old cars expecting them to perform like new, and yet we moan when they don't :banghead:

It is annoying when you get gearbox problems because they arnt cheap things to repair, and it gets expensive when you can't take the box out yourself and you have to pay a garage to do it, labour + parts + vat (tax) = expensive headache 

Flaming vat is 17.5% here in the uk and will be 20% from 1st of jan 2011:banghead:

Extra 2.5 pence per pound you spend


----------



## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

yeah but you guys have top gear...that makes up for it all!


----------



## gtx4tec (Oct 20, 2009)

Update on the Synchromesh.... This stuff is effing incredible. The shifting doesn't get any smoother, it's like liquid butter, and zero gear grinding even if I wail on it in first and slam it in to second. 

Unbelievable changing the fluid could make such a dramatic difference.

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## jforte5650 (Jan 23, 2002)

*buying synchromesh*

So where is everyone getting their synchromesh? Will Autozone or Advanced carry it? VW dealer? Special order?


----------



## gtx4tec (Oct 20, 2009)

jforte5650 said:


> So where is everyone getting their synchromesh? Will Autozone or Advanced carry it? VW dealer? Special order?


It's a GM product. So GM/Chevy/Cadillac dealer.


----------



## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

pennzoil makes it as well.


----------



## MSFerrariF1 (Nov 14, 2008)

gtx4tec said:


> Update on the Synchromesh.... This stuff is effing incredible. The shifting doesn't get any smoother, it's like liquid butter, and zero gear grinding even if I wail on it in first and slam it in to second.
> 
> Unbelievable changing the fluid could make such a dramatic difference.
> 
> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Of course it will as long as your synchros are not worn.


----------



## MSFerrariF1 (Nov 14, 2008)

gtx4tec said:


> I just changed my (manual transmission) gear oil to ACDelco Syncromesh - part #89021808. Same stuff as GM Synchromesh friction modified.
> 
> It has completely transformed the transmission and how the car drives and feels.
> 
> ...


GL5 will do that.....GL4 will always work for mk4 trannies....I tried the GL5 on my tranny for a few minutes and started grinding right of the bat. Drained it and put OEM fluid....problem solved.


----------



## TommyG. (Jul 3, 2009)

gtx4tec said:


> It's a GM product. So GM/Chevy/Cadillac dealer.


 sorry for the late bump but how much does this usually run for?


----------



## Chiefkyle (Jul 6, 2010)

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com 

Pennzoil Synchromesh 

Found that at their store. Anyone know if there is a difference between the Pennzoil and one you get from GM.....if there is a difference. 

@gtx4tec - Where did you get your Synchromesh?


----------



## Chiefkyle (Jul 6, 2010)

On my way to work a little bit ago, I did what Broke suggested. Going from first to second (around 4-5,000RPM) , I held the stick closer to second and it pulls itself in without grinding. Not really any different feeling then when I disengage first, leave it in neutral for 1 second then go to second gear (also no grind). 

I will do the Synchromesh Friday.


----------



## mikemikemike (Dec 14, 2009)

EDIT:Just noticed. Chiefkyle way to necro post. This is 2 months old. 

Not sure if it was said before, but 2nd gear, especially in VW are first to go. Syncro dies there first, mine did too. Either double clutch or granny shift when you go into second.


----------



## Chiefkyle (Jul 6, 2010)

Double clutch? Explain please. Never understood what that means. 

And I search and post (as per forum rules) vs posting something already posted but to lazy to search. :laugh:


----------



## madbeachjetta (Apr 5, 2009)

Double-clutch is just letting out the clutch with the transmission in NEUTRAL. So the input shaft and clutch can bet set to whatever RPM you know gives a smooth shift for the current speed and desired gear. Then clutch back in and shift.


----------



## Chiefkyle (Jul 6, 2010)

:thumbup: Got it.


----------



## 04ultrasportb6 (May 25, 2010)

I came across your post. Same issue. Just replaced my clutch. now have 1/2 grind. replaced syncro also. Still there. Did you figure this out?


----------



## Chiefkyle (Jul 6, 2010)

One more thing to note. I was also being late on pulling my foot off the gas pedal, so basically, I was spinning the engine/clutch causing the clutch as well.

Now I rev high, hold clutch in shift, the drop the clutch. Sounds better, more torque, and no grind.


----------



## mrjoshm (Jul 24, 2003)

i was under the impression that synchomesh was too thin of an oil for these 75w-90 gl-4 rated gearboxes.. 

here is a helpful link from bobistheoilguy.com

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1231182


----------



## mrjoshm (Jul 24, 2003)

at least according to this chart that was posted in that thread:

Current MTL GL4 viscosities are:

1. ATF viscosity Series; 6.5 to 8.5 cSt (Equivalent ATF viscosity; Note: ATF additive package is weak compared to most GL4's)

2. Synchromesh viscosity Series; 9.3 - 9.6 cSt (such as Amsoils MTF, Texaco's MTL, Pennzoil's Synchromesh, GM and Chrysler's Synchromesh)

3. 75W85 viscosity Series; 9.8 to 11.5 cSt ( Redline's MTL, RP's Synchromax LT, Nissan's MTL, Honda MTL, Castrol Syntorq LT)

4. 75W90 viscosity Series; 12.8 to 14.5 cSt (Amsoil's MTG, Redline's MT-90).



I thought that our transaxles were in group 4


----------



## Sherbet Lime (Oct 23, 2010)

animaniac said:


> Flaming vat is 17.5% here in the uk and will be 20% from 1st of jan 2011:banghead:
> 
> Extra 2.5 pence per pound you spend


 Holy ****.


----------



## donminato (Aug 16, 2006)

*GM Synchro Fluid*

Thanks for posting the info about the GM fluid. I changed mine today and the GM fluid makes a noticeable difference in shifting smoothness. I am still suffering from the reverse gear clacking as well as a relatively new noise, best described as a clattering noise noticeable at low speeds (under 40 km/h) when the transmission is not loaded and is coasting, either in gear or in neutral. Has anyone else had this issue? Maybe time to get a new car???

Thanks!


----------



## Chiefkyle (Jul 6, 2010)

I got rid of mine. Was a money pit. *shrug*


----------



## skid89 (Mar 2, 2007)

*syncomesh*

Just a question regarding the GM syncromesh. I went to the dealer today and realized they have the regular acdelco syncromech, and they have acdelco syncromesh - friction modified. Just wondering which type people have had the success with. Thanks


----------



## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

gtx4tec said:


> I just changed my (manual transmission) gear oil to ACDelco Syncromesh - part #89021808. Same stuff as GM Synchromesh friction modified.
> 
> It has completely transformed the transmission and how the car drives and feels.
> 
> ...


 

thanks for the advice i have a friend that recommended 1L of the ACDelco stuff you used above and 1L of MOTYLGEAR 75W90 - Technosynthese - API GL-4 / GL-5 

anyone tried this? 

i found an article on google that said 

MOTYLGEAR 
75W-90 
Gearbox and differential lubricant 
Technosynthese 
TYPE OF USE 
Specially recommended for gearboxes hard to shift and/or noisy gearboxes. 
All mechanical transmission, synchronised or not synchronised gearboxes, gearbox/differential, transfer 
gearbox and hypoïd differentials without limited slip system operating under shocks, heavy loads and 
low revolution speed or moderate loads and high revolution speed. 
PERFORMANCES 
STANDARDS API GL4 and GL5 / MIL-L-2105D 
Extreme pressure lubricant for an efficient anti wear protection reinforced with synthetic base stocks for 
a better resistance at high temperature and longer life time. 
Stays in 90 grade after KRL 20 hours shear test as requested by SAE J306 Standard, July 1998 update 
Very high lubricating power which decreases friction and wear. 
90 grade at hot temperature to provide outstanding oil film resistance at hot temperature and/or to 
reduce transmission noise. 
Fluid at low temperature to allow easier gear shifting when the gearbox is cold. 
Less effort required on the gear lever to shift the gears. 
Suitable for any type of seal and yellow material used in gearboxes design. 
Anti-corrosion, Anti-foam. 
RECOMMENDATIONS 
Oil change: According to manufacturers' requirements and adjust according to your own use. 
PROPERTIES 
Viscosity grade SAE J306 75W-90 
Density at 15°C (59°F) ASTM D1298 0.868 
Viscosity at 40°C (104°F) ASTM D445 107.8 mm²/s 
Viscosity at 100°C (212°F) ASTM D445 16.7 mm²/s 
Viscosity index VIE ASTM D2270 171 
Flash point ASTM D92 200°C / 392°F 
Pour point ASTM D97 -45°C / -49°F 


any advice is welcomed


----------



## 35i 2000 (Jan 27, 2005)

so i went out and purchased some ROYAL PURPLE 75x 90 Max Gear synthetic oil

when i got home i did some research and found this:

http://www.synthetic-oil-tech.com/Gear Lube White Paper.pdf

in the article they talk about how royal purple was the only gear lube to fail both the initial viscosity requirements and the shear stability requirements

meaning its too thick at first and too thin at 20h of work they have a nice chart on pg 6

they say that AMSOIL is the best, but then again AMSOIL did the research :banghead:


----------



## harmankardon35 (Sep 16, 2009)

royal purple = :thumbdown:


----------



## sooperman23 (Mar 9, 2011)

I realize this thread hasn't been talked about recently, however I feel the need to add my input. I would not recomend anyone with a properly operating tranny to use synchromesh in the gearbox. While synchromesh offers superior traction for the synchros, it is much too thin to offer long term protection from heat and friction. Use 75w90 gear oil. If you want use synthetic go ahead spend some extra dough on the good stuff. I would only tell someone to try synchromesh if OE doesn't work. It is mearly a bandaid for a failing VW synchro.


----------



## TerryFrost (Jul 22, 2008)

A transmission mechanic told me once...if everyone just changed their fluid once a year, he would be out of a job. 

I imagine a couple quarts of fluid is cheaper than a couple of grand for a rebuild


----------



## BLKTDTDI (Feb 11, 2015)

skid89 said:


> Just a question regarding the GM syncromesh. I went to the dealer today and realized they have the regular acdelco syncromech, and they have acdelco syncromesh - friction modified. Just wondering which type people have had the success with. Thanks



Bump this..

I'd like to know the same thing. Which is better for a worn/tired synchro, the regular or friction modified?


----------



## Miigotu (Feb 23, 2015)

skid89 said:


> Just a question regarding the GM syncromesh. I went to the dealer today and realized they have the regular acdelco syncromech, and they have acdelco syncromesh - friction modified. Just wondering which type people have had the success with. Thanks





BLKTDTDI said:


> I'd like to know the same thing. Which is better for a worn/tired synchro, the regular or friction modified?


From the bobistheoilguy.com thread linked earlier in this thread, 



> GL5 differential lubes use friction modifiers to reduce mechanical and fluid friction and add some anti-shudder friction modifier for limited slip, both very different chemical compounds.


One could assume that the regular synchromesh is GL4 rated, and friction modified synchromesh would be GL5 rated, and as GL5 is bad for the synchros in our transmissions I would probably go for the regular synchromesh.


----------



## hf35 (Aug 6, 2014)

TerryFrost said:


> A transmission mechanic told me once...if everyone just changed their fluid once a year, he would be out of a job.
> 
> I imagine a couple quarts of fluid is cheaper than a couple of grand for a rebuild


l do not know if that is good advice. VW claims, that it is lifetime. l never purposely abused my 91 jetta, drove it 429,000 kms in 23 years, never changed the fluid or clutch. Maybe l was lucky or maybe VW is right. l would be happy to hear some well informed advice.


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

Thread from the dead:laugh:



hf35 said:


> l do not know if that is good advice. VW claims, that it is lifetime. l never purposely abused my 91 jetta, drove it 429,000 kms in 23 years, never changed the fluid or clutch. Maybe l was lucky or maybe VW is right. l would be happy to hear some well informed advice.


It is lifetime fluid, but you were also lucky.... 266K miles on a stock 020 is pretty good. Often the diff rivets will fail, an oil leak will cause 5th to burn up from low oil, the small output shaft taper bearing starts failing, etc... so 266K is pretty good.

I think they consider it lifetime because it isn't exposed to the same heat and pressure engine oil is exposed to, and there are no combustion by-products in the trans fluid, so it doesn't break down the same way.

That being said... a trans with regular fluid changes looks beautiful inside, and your trans would be absolutely coated inside in a pitch black film. Only the bearing rollers and gear teeth where they contact each other don't have the film on them... anything that isn't touched by something else will be coated.

The gears, bearings, sync rings, plastic thrust piece, thrust washers, etc. will all shed material during normal use, so the oil gets more and more contaminated the older it gets.

While it isn't required to change the oil regularly, doing so ensures it keeps the contamination down, and it makes for cleaner parts inside the trans.:thumbup:

Brian


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

The definition of Lifetime is the real question. 

Once the fluid is worn out the transmission is destroyed. Then you know the lifetime of the transmission. If you replace the fluid regularly, the life of the transmission will extend much further. So, what is lifetime? It's a stupid standard.

Mileage driven is not really a great way of determining the wear and tear of a vehicle, it's just an agreed standard. If you lived in down town SF or Seattle, your clutch would not last that long. I know a MINI owner that only got 45k out of their clutch because of the where they drove [never on the freeway]. I also have a client that drives +30k miles a year, other than oil services, he only replaces the engine air filters.


----------



## A3REDT (Mar 22, 2014)

As I read through and I see people discussing the issues, everybody is referring to going into gear. I don't have a grinding noise like yours, but what is happening is it sticks in first unless I let the transmission completely unload (clutch in a long time) and then I have to force it into 2nd- it's the same from 2nd to 3rd. It only happens when it is cold outside, like below 20F cold, and as soon as it warms up it shifts smooth as can be. Is this what you're fixing with the trans fluid or something else entirely?


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

A3REDT said:


> As I read through and I see people discussing the issues, everybody is referring to going into gear. I don't have a grinding noise like yours, but what is happening is it sticks in first unless I let the transmission completely unload (clutch in a long time) and then I have to force it into 2nd- it's the same from 2nd to 3rd. It only happens when it is cold outside, like below 20F cold, and as soon as it warms up it shifts smooth as can be. Is this what you're fixing with the trans fluid or something else entirely?


Do you ever get a grinding noise while selecting reverse gear?


----------



## A3REDT (Mar 22, 2014)

Never, although it does occasionally take a good shove and then it'll clunk in- that's only when I've been moving and am shifting to reverse. Also, am at 110k miles if that adds any context.


----------



## Broke (Aug 13, 2001)

A3REDT said:


> Never, although it does occasionally take a good shove and then it'll clunk in- that's only when I've been moving and am shifting to reverse. Also, am at 110k miles if that adds any context.


Never select reverse when the car is in motion at all, at least with the 020, and 02A/J trans types. I'm not sure on the others.

There is no sync ring on reverse, and it is not a synchromesh gear so it is the only gear in the trans that you are physically moving into place to mesh with 2 other gears.
All the forward gears are constantly meshed together (syncromesh) and are simply locked and unlocked to the shafts to select them.
Reverse is an actual small gear slid into place to mesh with the 2 other gears.

If the clutch is dragging or hanging up, the input shaft will continue to spin with the engine. 
If the car is in motion at all then the output shaft will be spinning.
The reverse idler is slipped in between the input and output shafts to form a 3rd shaft and reverse the direction of the output shaft.
If either shaft is spinning, reverse will grind on selection.

If your reverse never grinds, then we can safely assume the clutch is releasing as it should be.

The fact you get a change when it warms up would suggest an oil issue. Try a different weight, or try synthetic, but it sounds like the oil may be too thick when cold and is affecting the shifting.

Brian


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I know that this thread has been active for a long time. Many moons ago, I rebuilt a 020 trans, installed a Quaife, and changed up the gear ratio a bit. Never ever did 2nd gear go in without grinding. Normal shifts, it was fine, fast shifting always was a grind. I took it apart a second time to replace the 2nd gear syncro without any improvement.

So that car got totaled [it was parked and some beeotch thought it was more important to look for her phone than to watch where she was going] and after many years, I decided that I would install this transmission into a Rabbit pickup [along with a Callaway turbo set up]. Before I installed this transmission, I used the GM Syncromesh fluid. I can say, it no longer grinds in 2nd. 

I'm too lazy to look to see who recommended the fluid, but a big Thank You for the person who did.


----------



## Z45 (Mar 10, 2021)

Broke said:


> *Re: Grinding 2nd.. Change gear oil? (Michael Cahill)*
> 
> Does the car select reverse with no problems and zero noise during selection?


what is the capacity of the oil for 020 manual transmission


----------



## Z45 (Mar 10, 2021)

Broke said:


> Never select reverse when the car is in motion at all, at least with the 020, and 02A/J trans types. I'm not sure on the others.
> 
> There is no sync ring on reverse, and it is not a synchromesh gear so it is the only gear in the trans that you are physically moving into place to mesh with 2 other gears.
> All the forward gears are constantly meshed together (syncromesh) and are simply locked and unlocked to the shafts to select them.
> ...


what is the capacity of the oil for 020 manual transmission


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I believe it's about 2L. Just fill it up till it pours out the fill port. I usually fill it using the speedo cable hole. It's a bit easier to fill. Just do not drop your speedo gear into the transmission.


----------



## Z45 (Mar 10, 2021)

Butcher said:


> I believe it's about 2L. Just fill it up till it pours out the fill port. I usually fill it using the speedo cable hole. It's a bit easier to fill. Just do not drop your speedo gear into the transmission.












can you please tell me which circle the oil puts from it and which one it pours from thanks in advanced


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Fill at the yellow or red but the red plug must be removed.

FYI, this transmission has been out since the mid 70's. Every question you have asked has been asked thousands of times. The information is out there. It's faster to search than to post the same question and waiting for a response. Just saying. Sorry if you get offended.


----------

