# DC Auto Show



## higgledy (Jul 24, 2011)

There was no Routan on display at the DC Auto Show. That is not a good sign.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

higgledy said:


> There was no Routan on display at the DC Auto Show. That is not a good sign.


 I'll let you know if they have one at Philly, going on Sunday


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## trbochrg (Dec 1, 2004)

They had an SEL at the Auto Show in Boston in January....no "R" though...


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Philly has a Silver SEL Premium on display.


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## gwernerjr (Dec 12, 2011)

58kafer said:


> Philly has a Silver SEL Premium on display.



The T&C is being redesigned based off the concept that just debuted; Chrysler's plan is to drop the caravan and keep only the T&C. The Routan will be dropped for sure. It was a way to enter the van market in the US without having to alter the touran/sharan and replaced the long winded eurovan. Sales have not proven to be successful however and this is something VW is just waiting out. I give it one more year then routan no more. Mark my words.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

gwernerjr said:


> The T&C is being redesigned based off the concept that just debuted; Chrysler's plan is to drop the caravan and keep only the T&C. The Routan will be dropped for sure. It was a way to enter the van market in the US without having to alter the touran/sharan and replaced the long winded eurovan. Sales have not proven to be successful however and this is something VW is just waiting out. I give it one more year then routan no more. Mark my words.


Yea, VW has contract with Chyrsler through 2013 so you are correct. This was a test to see if VW had a market for vans and they realized they did. When I worked at VW dealership we could not keep them in stock. LOL


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## gwernerjr (Dec 12, 2011)

Boosted2003! said:


> Yea, VW has contract with Chyrsler through 2013 so you are correct. This was a test to see if VW had a market for vans and they realized they did. When I worked at VW dealership we could not keep them in stock. LOL



Maybe in 2008 you couldn't keep them on the lots, but I just visited my dealer yesterday and they told me they couldn't pay people to want this van as of last year. STALE. They are turning them into courtesy cars, parts transport vans, and shuttles. 

Having said that it was a cool concept to put the sportier suspension and slight modifications to make it a VW, but they really did not do enough to change it from the Chrysler/Dodge. It had the chrysler mygig system called joybox and it had chrysler keys so many people had to go to chrysler dealers to even get replacement keys. Just a failed concept all around.

Also, they never had the stow and go or the swivel and go seats and it was undermarketed!

VW of America had projected for the Routan to gain at least five percent of the US minivan market, or 45,000 units of the 700,000 minivans sold currently. In January 2009, VW of America asked Chrysler Canada to stop production of the Routan for the month of February after 29,000 Routans had been shipped to US dealerships. 11,677 units had sold by July 2009. You don't stop production if they are selling like hot cakes. Truth is people didn't buy into it. It was only the immediate new car hype and it died out extremely quick.

This does not exactly correspond with your dealer which couldn't keep them on the lots. Remember one dealer is not able to be generalized to all the dealers.


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## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

Might not be a bad thing after all -- maybe we will see some lighter vans on the market with diesel engines after VW will sever the partnership with Chrysler. Maybe...

And then there is the chicken tax and the question of vehicle classification that might kill our hopes for a full sized euro van...

Well, for what it was, I love my Routan despite some of the shortcomings and I will not cry if I don't see it continue past 2013 - that's called "life". I suppose the resale value might suck even more (it's not too hot now to begin with) but then again it might actually help it. Time will tell.

I am curious though when (not if, but when) discontinued, how will the service arrangements work out? Will VW continue to service them indefinitely or will they send customers over to the Chrysler dealers (my thinking is that VW will continue to absorb the cost and be the middle man in the process servicing their cars).


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## gwernerjr (Dec 12, 2011)

paf said:


> Might not be a bad thing after all -- maybe we will see some lighter vans on the market with diesel engines after VW will sever the partnership with Chrysler. Maybe...
> 
> And then there is the chicken tax and the question of vehicle classification that might kill our hopes for a full sized euro van...
> 
> ...




Assume they will have to be maintained at chrysler dealers as it is a chrysler engine. 

Don't assume any other vans coming to the US. VW tried this to gain market share figuring that US people love minivans but it was a flop regardless of what people believe and say

You will never see a routan with a TDI because it is a chrysler and they don't speak diesel in the US

Expect resale value to be HORRID! American cars are among the worst when it comes to resale and believe it or not this car is 98% American. Suspension tuning does not blind people from the 3.6 US engine of Canada, or the mygig (joybox) entertainment system. The car is American and will be treated as such when it come to resale

A similar situation occurred with the mazda tribute. Mazdas have fairly well resale value because they are Japanese and reliable. The tribute which is an escape has always had horrid resale value because people know it is an American car.

Badges don't change things, underpinnings do. If the routan had a 3.6 VR6 engine it would be another story, but you can't fool the market unfortunately.

The only worse part about this is the car is being discontinued and is already in low demand.

When a car is discontinued and in high demand you get a high resale value. Good examples of this are limited edition cars like the Golf R or even say the BMW Z8. They hold value very well in the demand curve and then ultimately drop after a certain period.

The routan however is a car that had hype and is now not wanted. A discontinued car that is not wanted (and I don't mean because 200 people on a forum say they'd buy another its wanted i mean because demographic marketing studies have shown the car is not selling and that people would not buy it in a mass view) always loses its value quick. 

So I would say trade out before it is gone, but that is just my opinion. There is nothing to wait and see, the car will not suddenly jump in price or even hold its value because they don't make it anymore.

It is a chrysler at the end of the day, and come the new 800 which will replace the T&C/caravan, people will certainly be after that, not a routan.

However do not think i am a negative nancy, I thought the routan was a cool concept it just didn't quite hit what they expected. VW is on its way to controlling the US market anyway in sales figures so dropping the routan could not have come at a better time. 1000 on average a month is unacceptable next to say 2000 a month on the passat. (and that is generous as they have been selling upwards of 3-4000 a month they had to increase production output by hiring more workers in Chattanooga)

Sell your routan now if you're worried about the value, otherwise enjoy it

and if you have an SEL premium with xenons and remote start then you're cool in my book


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## taxman100 (Apr 30, 2011)

*Service*

Volkswagen will service it as long as it in warranty. After that, since it was built by Chrysler, you will have the option of servicing most of the vehicle there. 

As far as the engine/transmission, chassis, most electronics and hardware, I wouldn't worry. Chrysler has already sold 1 million 3.6 penstastar engines in North America, and the transmission is common as rain, so parts will be relatively inexpensive when the car gets old. There will also be plenty of places to fix it, just like any other Chrysler designed van. In a perfect world, finding a Chrysler (or Dodge)/Volkswagen combined dealership would be perfect, but do any of those cobrandings exist? 

The only issues I would see in the future could be VW specific parts - interior and exterior trim, etc. The "guts" of the car will be no problem. 

I ignored the badge on the van when I bought it - my purchase was based upon how much larger the discounts were on the Routan than the Town & Country, the free maintenance, the leatherrette interior, and the better dealership service.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

VW will still have to service them, unless the sign over all the VINs to Chrysler. You can't as of right now take your Routan to a Chrysler/Dodge dealer and have them enable any options or anything that will need to be serviced from the Dealerconnect/Starscan system. To Chrysler/Dodge, our VINs don't exist in their world---YET. As far as if you wanted to go to one to have repair work done, hell yeah, you can do that now if you wanted. Mechanical bones are just that, ANYONE can work on them. If you look close enough at your van you will see MOPAR part numbers all over it. Saying that it will have to be serviced at a Chrysler dealer because of the engine is crazy, the Plymouth Horizon and Dodge Omni were powered by a VW 1.7L from the Rabbit. It's got VW and Audi casting symbols all over it. Trust me, no one took their Plymouth or Dodge to the VW dealer in the 80's. :beer:


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## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

> 1000 on average a month is unacceptable next to say 2000 a month on the passat.


While I agree with a lot of your points, that one is off target.

If you put it into perspective, given the numbers that are posted somewhere below, Routan is selling better than: EOS and Touareg, R Series Golf and at times matches the sales of the GTI -- so I'd say it's holding its own in terms of popularity. Keep in mind that not everyone has a need for a car this size and while economy is on everyone's mind, cars like Jetta excel in sales (both from MPG and price perspective).

I wouldn't call Routan a failed experiment -- an experiment, but not necessarily a failure.


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## gwernerjr (Dec 12, 2011)

paf said:


> While I agree with a lot of your points, that one is off target.
> 
> If you put it into perspective, given the numbers that are posted somewhere below, Routan is selling better than: EOS and Touareg, R Series Golf and at times matches the sales of the GTI -- so I'd say it's holding its own in terms of popularity. Keep in mind that not everyone has a need for a car this size and while economy is on everyone's mind, cars like Jetta excel in sales (both from MPG and price perspective).
> 
> I wouldn't call Routan a failed experiment -- an experiment, but not necessarily a failure.



Perhaps failed is extreme, but on par with what was projected, absolutely not. Having said that it will be gone after 2013 anyway so there is not much more to say on the subject. And a Touareg is a low volume US car which they know off the bat, and the R series golf is a limited production vehicle (although not numbered) so this is expected to be low in sales volume as well. As for the Eos, it is just overpriced and stale as well. A refresh of headlights and taillights does not blind people from the fact it looks nearly the same as the original, especially given the competition (since the sunroof deal is not really causing people to choose it over the G, IS, 3 etc..)

All in all, the Routan is dead regardless of sales figures. But it was cool in 2008..


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## vwbugstuff (Mar 27, 2004)

There is a Routan at the Chicago Auto Show.

And a Golf "R"...:thumbup::thumbup:


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

*Did you check the list price though ... ?*

At the Chicago Show they had a SEL Premium (wood grain, leather now on arm rests, etc.) but list was over $45K !! 

The one that took my breath away though was the Toureg Hybrid; list was over $63K for a VW !! sounds like another Phaeton, wonder how many of these they actually sell? 

The new Beetle TDI version was their debut model, very nice interior, like the new popup full length looking skylight, didn't ask if it was just a popup (like on the CC) or if it rolled back as we weren't interested but needless to say nice execution. As we owned the earlier "New Beetle" (a '98 TDI) this one has a better interior (like the retro dash panels that look like the earliest Beetle's) and the room in back is a bit better. These have gotten much more expensive but I guess all cars have.

Also like the minor restyle to the Touran as we're looking at the next car after the Routan as its warranty is up this coming August. Since getting a 'no start' issue requiring a tow fixed (related to the radio head unit of all things) our '09 Routan has done OK but we worry post warranty and of course fast depreciation as others have already seen. We kept our DGC's for a number of years (7 for the first; 12 for the second) but with all of the electronics (ignition, radio head unit, folding seats, doors, remote start, etc.) perhaps it's too much to ask that these things last quite that long; we can live with the tranny issues, but this other stuff can be even more expensive to fix. VW's booth space was quite big but not all that many cars on display. Of course if '13 is the final years for Routan's by Chrysler them perhaps it's a good time to avoid the 'orphan' status as well; it makes for a good deal for someone buying one and not so good for selling or trading one in.


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## gwernerjr (Dec 12, 2011)

early74B said:


> At the Chicago Show they had a SEL Premium (wood grain, leather now on arm rests, etc.) but list was over $45K !!
> 
> The one that took my breath away though was the Toureg Hybrid; list was over $63K for a VW !! sounds like another Phaeton, wonder how many of these they actually sell?
> 
> ...



Yeah the SEL premium is unfortunately not a big seller due to the price; It has blind spot monitors too which is cool.

The Touareg Hybrid is a very low volume vehicle. Can barely find them for sale on cars.com let alone at dealers. They have no options except the trailer hitch. A comparable TDI or V6 Executive are not far behind in price. And it is the world's first supercharged hybrid. It is also the only Touareg with LED taillights (kind of cool exclusive feature)

The sunroof on the beetle is panoramic and actually slides back unlike the CC which only tilts. The sunroofs are not being supplied however so many new beetles that are loaded are shipping without them. Same thing goes for the gauge pods on the center dash. Good old suppliers..


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