# Lifting a Phaeton



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi, 

While getting his car serviced, a garage reports failed suspension. I suppose they must have hurt the air line while lifting the car, but can't find the thread again (looks like the search feature of this new forum is worst than the previous one !! couldn't think this was possible !!!) 

Has anyone bookmarked the link to the page I'm referring to (the one that shows the photos of the air line running under the car, and where it can be damaged) ? 

Thanks, 

P.


----------



## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

When I lifted my car to rotate my tires (while in jack mode) I got a similar message when I was done. It cleared itself up after a little drive. I suspect you may not have a real problem, just a glitch. If it was serious, the suspension would be dropped to the ground and it would be unable to lift itself to ride height. If you brought it in for service and there was a serious fault, I suppose it would be obvious if they caused the damage from imporpoer lifting but you must have it inspected. 

Damon


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I also get suspension message, usually "workshop", after lifting but they go away on their own. From memory, the suspension lines in question were just inboard of the lifting pads. My one complaint about Discount Tire is that they use long pads to lift the vehicle which run right along the the side of the car between the lifting pads.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Sorry if I didn't make myself understood. The failure is real. the car lies flat on its belly in the garage...


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Just because it is on it's belly when lowered does NOT mean anything has failed.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

PowerDubs said:


> Just because it is on it's belly when lowered does NOT mean anything has failed.


Could you be more explicit ?

Thx,

P.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Zaphh said:


> Could you be more explicit ?




Normal cars have metal coil springs that support the car.. the shocks are just there as a damping measure to control the movement.

On the Phaeton, the shocks do not have springs.. the car is supported by air pressurized shocks. The car controls ride height by putting air into the shocks or letting it out. 

When you lift the car, it 'thinks' the ride height is too high so it lets air out. When you lower the car it is common for it to sit on the ground until the engine is started.

I have a lift in my garage and have had this happen several times when working on the Phaeton.

Give me a couple minutes and I will upload the Phaeton suspension self study guide.

Thanks- Josh


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Here you go- https://acrobat.com/#d=Cwaq*nn4QE2yuPPYk5*qvg


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

One of the advantages of air suspension: "reduced tyre wear". As if!


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I think 2,500lbs and all wheel drive do their best to counter it!

Harry


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi,

I couldn't download the file... (adobe flash player is apparently missing from my browser, and I couldn't install it...)

Anyway. How can I convey that the suspension is broken ? The car won't lift itself back to its normal height even when started. It lays flat on its belly.

I'm trying to find the page that showed the picture of the air line that was running under the Phaeton.

Can anyone find it in the new forum ?

Thanks,

P.


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

The broken air line in the post you are refering to was at the rear, at the front of the rear arch, underneath, if you going inwards to the centre of the car, by 8" there is a small coloured pipe, green or red I think about 6mm in diameter, right near a flat area some garages use to lift the car, check here first.

I woud say if i pipe is broken you should be able to hear the air escaping and the fracture point.

Can you hear the compessor running just under the spare wheel?

Have the set car to the high level?


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

It's not my car but the car of a French forum participant, whose garage has just changed the alternator, after which the suspension is not working anymore. They don't want to touch the car anymore and want to give it back to him in this state.

It's a V10. I don't know about V10s, but on W12, I know that in order to change the alternator, you need to remove the engine from the car, so my hypothesis is that they are a stock VW garage who thought Hey, we aint any more stupid than others, so let's change this alternator, and must have discovered in the process that a Phaeton is no standard VW. They have spent days to do the thing, and once they (hopefully) succeeded, the car is now lying on its belly, so they don't want to touch it anymore...

So one of MY hypotheses is that if they lifted the car not knowing that the small tube was there, they could have pinched it or broken it. And if, when seeing that the car did not raise itself when started, they lifted it back up while putting the arm at the same position, they may not see what the problem is...

I would have liked to find the photo so that I could pass the link to the French forumer, so that he could show them and ask them to check out the integrity of the pipe, but the thread seems to be lost...

Many links in the TOC are not working, btw. I hope the moderators will be able to retrieve the precious information that was there.

I can't believe that the new forum has such a poor search function. You can't even specify which forum you want to search for info !!! I can't believe it could be worse than the previous one !!!

Why wouldn't VWvortex use a standard PHPBB forum is beyond me...

Anyway, thanks for your answers. I'll give the hint that if the pipe is broken, hissing air should be heard (unless the car is lifted with an arm under the pipe, which is why it would have been great to have the photo)...

P.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

> They don't want to touch the car anymore and want to give it back to him in this state.


Are they a franchised VW garage or an independent? Either way, that's outrageous behaviour...



> Many links in the TOC are not working, btw. I hope the moderators will be able to retrieve the precious information that was there.


I think we're still waiting for the achived information from the old forum to be ported over.

Harry


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

They are a VW dealer !!! Can you imagine that !!!

The owner has a phone appointment with VW customer over the phone on Monday.


----------



## iberkoko (Oct 27, 2009)

I changed two tires last week and when I put it into Jack Mode it immediately gave the following error: Level Error: Workshop. 

We drive it around a few times and then went back. It did it again. In the end we just got on with it and lifted it and it was fine. It was fine when dropped as well. So maybe it just doesn't like going into Jack Mode or it's aware that Jack mode is a little strange level wise. 

Iain


----------



## gibber_2k (Jul 16, 2002)

The v10 tdi does not have an alternator, it is a dynamo, and it is in the centre on the engine. The engine does not have to be removed to replace it, but the inlet manifolds and everything attached to them needs to be removed.

The garage should have access to VAGCOM (VCDS) or equivalent, and should easily be able to diagnose a problem on the supension, with the software you can test each part of the air suspension on its own, and also take readings (heights or pressures) from all over the system, so it would be very easy to find the fault/leak.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Just found the picture in my folder of "Interesting Phaeton Pictures":










Hope that helps!

Harry


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

iberkoko said:


> I changed two tires last week and when I put it into Jack Mode it immediately gave the following error: Level Error: Workshop.
> 
> We drive it around a few times and then went back. It did it again. In the end we just got on with it and lifted it and it was fine. It was fine when dropped as well. So maybe it just doesn't like going into Jack Mode or it's aware that Jack mode is a little strange level wise.
> 
> Iain



Mine does that every time. So far it's always cleared itself afterwards.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

gibber_2k said:


> The v10 tdi does not have an alternator, it is a dynamo, and it is in the centre on the engine. The engine does not have to be removed to replace it, but the inlet manifolds and everything attached to them needs to be removed.


A dynamo ??? Thought these were not used any more in cars since the 1960's !

And thanks for the photo, Harry.

The arrows show the lifting points. I guess the air tube is the red one on top of the image, not the blue one at the bottom... am I right ?

P.


----------



## Roger Moore (Feb 20, 2000)

Pierre, It's a blue air line, insulated in black protective foam rubber, near the rear lift-point on the driver's side (you cannot see it in the photo), it's easily pinched by garage lifts/ floor jack. I think it's a 5mm Outside Diameter line. It happened to me last year, I purchased an inline air coupler to repair.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

You wouldn't have a photo of it by chance ?

Or better, since you know exactly where it is, would you mind taking a photo of the exact spot now that yours is repaired ?

Thanks,

P.


----------



## Roger Moore (Feb 20, 2000)

* Correction; it's the Red line on the Driver's side, "Not the Blue on the Passenger side". The line is also a 4mm nylon line. *

If you look carefully at the photo above you can see the red line with a rubber insulator near the lift point, that was my problem, my floor jack cup pinched the line, after I lowered my car and my jack pulled away from the line, all the air rushed out, very audible and clearly my cause. See my photos.










Here is what I used to repair it, the website http://www.coastpneumatics.com/, has great on-line help, I purchased two, just in case, but all I needed was the one.




















I hope this helps!


----------



## dstalling (Feb 19, 2009)

*Same exact problem with jack and lift point on Driver side*

I thank all who contribute to this forum! While changing my rear rotors and pads on my 04 Phaeton, the jack apparently bit the air tube and when I let the jack down, I could hear the air leaking down. I had just completed the 2nd of the read brakes and quickly got the car into the garage and put the jack back under the lift point, this time feeling where that the air tube was outside of the jack's lift cup. I found an equivalent coupling fitting for the 4mm coupling on http://www.master.com (Push-to-Connect Tube Fittings) and should have the part in two days. The rear rotor and pads are readily changed out and the post showing the brake change out pictures on this site was very helpful in getting the tools needed. Again thanks to all!
daves


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi everyone,

Thanks Roger and Harry for your great images.

I'm putting together a French html page (http://vwphaeton.free.fr) on the Phaeton and would like to use your images.

Roger. I understand you took the images yourself. Can I put them on my page ?

Harry : I wonder whether you actually took the pain of lifting your car in this position just to show the lifting points, so do you have the copyright for this image or not ? If so, can I use it (you will see that I already used part of it in my page). If not, I'll crawl under my car to take a photo of the red air line.

Thanks,

P.


----------



## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Hi Pierre,

You'll have to check with Michael about using the picture since he was the one who originally posted it (I must have saved it before they all had oempl.us watermarks on them.

Harry


----------



## Roger Moore (Feb 20, 2000)

Pierre, no objections here, I can send you a few via email, without the markups.


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

Hi Roger, and thanks for the snow screens 

Will wait until november to try them out.

Concerning the photos, I don't care about OEMpl.us watermarks. They don't own the photo, nor rights on the photo, unless Michael expressly gave them the rights to exploit it, which I very much doubt.

So I put the photos on vwphaeton.free.fr.

Thanks,

P.


----------



## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

*Now I Am Thoroughly Confused*

This subject of lifting a Phaeton seems to be very delicate. There are several lifting looking points underneath the car, enough to confuse anyone. I had printed, and keep a copy of it in the car, the original thread on lifting the car and upon reading it again, this is what Michael says:

"Uh, well, it's mot a matter of the 'locations that *I* specify', it's the locations that *VW* specifies. There are some excellent illustrations in the Owner Manual that show exactly where the jack should be placed - they even have measurements and dimensions. In fact, I think the illustrations in the Owner Manual are better than the illustrations in the service manual."

1- Do these Owner Manual illustrations point to the same places that are shown in this thread?

2- Why is there still confusion as to where to locate the jacks and lifts?

3- Will the Owner Manual locations have the potential of damaging the car?

4- Are these air lines in plain sight so that they can be pushed aside and avoid damaging them?

I think that the next time I go to the dealer I will have them show me where it is that they place the lift points

cai


----------



## HR~Dusk (Jun 17, 2010)

Hello 

I'm the unlucky Phaeton owner with the problem to the suspension system. 
Zaphh had talk about my problem some weeks ago :smile:

So, the problem is located at the front of the car, the rear is at normal height.
Except the sound of the engine, there is a new sound, little, a pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff :sly:

I've lost 4" of height, and the buttons doesn't works because the light was turned on for a week :bah:
I've seen that when i was gone to picking up my car after the problem of the "Dynamo" ( 1250$ of course )
Anyway, i have need of some informations, where can I find technicals pics from the Suspension system?

Thanks to all, and sorry for my bad English


----------



## Rowayton (May 29, 2004)

My Phaeton hasn't spend much time on a lift but to avoid explaining to any facility (even VW can get it wrong) that needs to lift my car where the lift points are I bought some day glow red spray paint, made a round cardboard template and spray painted the lift points. I also laminated a copy of how to put a Phaeton into 'jacking mode'. If the car will need to go on a lift I put that direction card on the steering wheel center with tape. Peace of mind is good .
Ron


----------



## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

how do you put in jacking mode? i done this before and i forgot. i though it was in the maintanance section but i didnt see it.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

From memory, I think you hold down the two suspension-related buttons aft of the shifter for 3 secs.


----------



## tynee (Dec 19, 2007)

yep, that's how, just did it two weeks ago while switching tires.


----------



## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

thanks i remember now, i tried but must have not hold for long enough.


----------

