# Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

For starters i dont want this thread to be fulled with useless stuff so keep ur nonsense out of it 
Second i have a 1.8t o6a
i would like to know what kind of internals i should use and what compression would be best to run with a gt30 series turbo (some say use other turbo) which would be best for around 400whp

i want to keep a stock head and crank would that be possible


_Modified by E30 all day at 1:29 AM 1-26-2009_


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (E30 all day)*

2LTurbo (12:36 AM 1-26-2009): one word... holset ... look it up on the DSM forums and checkout mainstayinc dyno charts he did for me, the conclusion was the hx-35 had more up top then the gt35 AND spooled up only 100 rpms slower! honda and dsm guys have pushed it to over 500 whp, its also a diesel turbo so its built to handle continuous high boost levels
2LTurbo (12:37 AM 1-26-2009): did i mention they can be had for 100-250 and rebuilt for just as much. so under 500 and you have a turbo better then a gt30 not many vw guys use them as like you can see it requires alot of motor work to run and the ones that usually DO have the money are elitist ***** anyways and onlt buy borg warner or garret
E30 all day (12:52 AM 1-26-2009): y not i want a garret
E30 all day (12:52 AM 1-26-2009): and i disagree with that u get waht u pay for
2LTurbo (1:13 AM 1-26-2009): ive run 10 different turbos.... 5 garrets ranging from lil t25s to nice gt40s costing several thousand, for the price, ive liked EVERYONE of my non garrets better, my mitsubishi turbos were making more then guys with the gt28 and they are only 600 BRAND new. the Holset also has better turbine technology then garret, garret has damn decent compressors but they are lackin in the turbine area, case in point, putting ball bearing center housings instead of making their turbines more efficient, hell and doing would make them hands down the greatest. Holsets are solid turbos and are JUST as good if not better quality then garrets, hell they com standard with ported shrouds


----------



## broke_rado (Nov 5, 2008)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (E30 all day)*

Integrated rods, stock pistons, Supertech springs and retainers, Borg Warner s256. Easily make 400whp with right fueling and tune.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

funny he said the borg warner as t is based of a simmilar design to the holsets, he is spot on bout internals though, although i always reccommend overboring it as you might as well with the engine apart


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_funny he said the borg warner as t is based of a simmilar design to the holsets, he is spot on bout internals though, although i always reccommend overboring it as you might as well with the engine apart

except then you're integrating the cost of pistons and a new fancy 83mm headgasket.... which doubles your engine build cost right there.
And without stroking it, it's really not worth it anyways.


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
except then you're integrating the cost of pistons and a new fancy 83mm headgasket.... which doubles your engine build cost right there.
And without stroking it, it's really not worth it anyways.

please lets not get cheap now. get a nice set of JE pistons and over bore it. what is another 1000 bucks really?


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

at 500 for new pistons i never said he had to overbore to 83... but damn if the engine is apart might as well got 81.5


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_
please lets not get cheap now. get a nice set of JE pistons and over bore it. what is another 1000 bucks really?

Its cost vs benefit. There's nothing cheap about keeping stock pistons that work.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_
please lets not get cheap now. get a nice set of JE pistons and over bore it. what is another 1000 bucks really?
 haha ive missed ya buddy, boy are you gonna like my newest build http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (haenszel)*

Precision Turbos are affordable, and make as much power as Garrett turbos.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
Its cost vs benefit. There's nothing cheap about keeping stock pistons that work. 

any REAL engine builder will ALWAYs replace parts, including pistons for every build, the stock pistons get the crap beat out of them and i would NEVER trust a new engine build pushing over 20 psi on old stock pistons, now is he got NEW stock pistons that would be another story


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_
any REAL engine builder will ALWAYs replace parts, including pistons for every build, the stock pistons get the crap beat out of them and i would NEVER trust a new engine build pushing over 20 psi on old stock pistons, now is he got NEW stock pistons that would be another story

That's fine. But when he comes cryin saying he can only spend $4k, don't be surprised when he buys an ebay turbo








When there's a budget there are things you can forgo. He's not looking to set records.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

well i do agree with you sir, but if hes looking to save money he needs to look for a better turbo, im sorry but for the coin, the gt30 is not necessarily the best option to reach 400, and even on a budget i will NEVER forgo internals.. rather buy an ebay turbo and have to replace oil seals every two months the throw a rod through the head


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

im not planning on setting any numbers i just want a fun reliable car that i can drive where ever i want. i will not buy an ebay turbo that's just retarded. i want to bore it to a 81.5 and run around 400whp im having most trouble finding which rods and pistons im gonna use
i don't have a budget right now all i wanna do is build a strong bottom end for the amount og hp i want. another dilemma that comes along is what compression i should run which leads to what kid of turbo i should be getting


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_
i don't have a budget right now all i wanna do is build a strong bottom end for the amount og hp i want. 

Better start saving, my bottom-end ran me around $4k, and I consider that to be very affordable


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

what did you use?! gold plated titanium rods!? seriously IE rods for 350 custom JE pistons for 500-600 bam under 1K for a stout bottom end...


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pOrKcHoP bOy* »_
Better start saving, my bottom-end ran me around $4k, and I consider that to be very affordable









dam screw that








i meant that i dont have a spending limit right now im only doing my bottom end for right now 


_Modified by E30 all day at 12:19 PM 1-26-2009_


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

You are forgetting the most important part, unless you are gonna do it yourself, the labor will be a huge chunk of it. And even if you did it yourself, the tools required to do it right are not cheap either


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

i haven't decided yet but im in an automotive school i work at a shop and i could have have been done with this build if i stayed away from snap-on


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

i hear about snap on.... went the automotive path.. spent WY too much on tools, realized iwouldnt make allot of money, went back to college lol. anyways labor is not a terribly big deal. bring the block .5 wont be mutch at a machine shop, and if your hving the shop put your WHOLE motor together what are you even doing on this bord. YOUR not building hte motor so what would any of this matter to you ? that was not directed at any one person just in general to people who come on here comment out their asses and dont even build theri OWN motors


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

Well, since you know everything, please create a build thread and show us how its done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

y would i be having trouble deciding on internals if im not building it 
also either way i need to know what i want before i go to the machinist 


_Modified by E30 all day at 8:58 PM 1-26-2009_


----------



## BlakVRBeast (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_ and if your hving the shop put your WHOLE motor together what are you even doing on this bord. YOUR not building hte motor so what would any of this matter to you ? that was not directed at any one person just in general to people who come on here comment out their asses and dont even build theri OWN motors

what is that supposed to mean ? if you're not building your own motor then you shouldn't be on this forum ? are u serious guy ? there is many people that can build a motor with no problems but rather have a reputable shop do it or just buy a ready to go motor (ex. Shimmell blocks ) .... even if he is not building the motor he can ask for suggestions on what internals to use . just b/c someone else is building the motor that means the customer has no say in it ?


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

my comment is towards the people that have never put a motor together or dont know how, and are slinging advice they get from whoever... i hate being questioned like im some retard by a 16 year old kid because he has a bolt on turbo kit and a shop told him something







not hating on pre made motors or people looking to save time, im deffinantly all for that one !


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (pOrKcHoP bOy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pOrKcHoP bOy* »_
Better start saving, my bottom-end ran me around $4k, and I consider that to be very affordable



yea i spend like 2 grand and i didnt even buy a new crank. yea the tools a are not cheap and you have to know a little of what you are doing but for the most part if you can take it apart then you can usually put it back together.
im assuming that your talking bout the 20v 1.8t. not sure what an o6a is but im just guessing by your list of cars (2003). why not start with APRs Stage 3+ will get you to about 350 and is probably in your budget. that is where i would start. uses a 28rs but it is all just bolt on for you


_Modified by vdubbugman53 at 10:26 AM 1-26-2009_


----------



## BlakVRBeast (Dec 17, 2006)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_i hate being questioned like im some retard by a 16 year old kid because he has a bolt on turbo kit and a shop told him something







not hating on pre made motors or people looking to save time, im deffinantly all for that one !

are u directing this to me ?


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

no my buddy vdubman, my point is the tex is full of snotty lil know it alls and they drive me to witts end... vdub 06A refers to the style of block.. ie internal water pump no intermidiate shaft, as opposed to the older 058 and 9A blocks


----------



## BlakVRBeast (Dec 17, 2006)

ist not only vortex that flooded with nonsense and very unusefull info .... dont get me wrong there are plenty of people on the forums and everywhere else that have tons of great info, ideas and experience .... u have to filter out the good info and the bad info ... too many people think they know something b/c they heard it from someone else but have never had any experience with it first hand or any at all


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (BlakVRBeast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlakVRBeast* »_ist not only vortex that flooded with nonsense and very unusefull info .... dont get me wrong there are plenty of people on the forums and everywhere else that have tons of great info, ideas and experience .... u have to filter out the good info and the bad info ... too many people think they know something b/c they heard it from someone else but have never had any experience with it first hand or any at all 

in that respect skip internals and build the tranny first because that will be the first to go ....in my experience


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_
any REAL engine builder will ALWAYs replace parts, including pistons for every build, the stock pistons get the crap beat out of them and i would NEVER trust a new engine build pushing over 20 psi on old stock pistons, now is he got NEW stock pistons that would be another story

My stock pistons and IE rods are fine, makes PLENTY of power at 25psi on a 50 Trim.
There are different ways to approach everything, if his goals are only 400whp why is there all this talk about boring out the block, JE pistons, ect. 400whp is easily attainable on a stock AWP head, "stock" bottom end (RODS ARE A MUST), and a good turbo.
Most people on here don't have 4K to sink into a bottom end, and for what reason if they are looking for under 500whp. I know of a few cars on stock pistons, IE rods and beefed up valvetrain making well over 500whp, possibly over 600whp on race gas.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (Rogue Status)*

My stock pistons held 40psi fine, and a few 8hr track days at 35psi.
Drove the car to work today actually.


_Modified by haenszel at 3:02 PM 1-26-2009_


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

hear say and conjecture.. this is why i lose faith in the vortex and am constantly turning towards the DSM sceen where from as far as i can tell most people build motors RIGHT the first time


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_hear say and conjecture.. this is why i lose faith in the vortex and am constantly turning towards the DSM sceen where from as far as i can tell most people build motors RIGHT the first time

Conjecture? I'd say it's more proven capability to handle it through personal experience. Havn't seen any holes or melted stock pistons around vortex that weren't the tune's fault, or other mechanical failure.


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

Hear say? What have you put together?
Doesn't matter what scene to go to, COST EFFECTIVE is the same everywhere. If things work, they work. No sense in replacing perfectly good pistons if they can do the job.
To the OP, why don't you give ForceFed a call, they are close to you, and I am sure they can help you put together a setup to reach your goals and take care of the install as well, if you need that done as well.


_Modified by Rogue Status at 4:06 PM 1-26-2009_


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

MK4 2L turbo.. 16V 2L Trubo... 2.1L stroker turbo, and now building another 2.1L stoker, do you want my non vw projects as well? haha sorry you guys cant afford new pistons but that dosent change the fact that re using pistons from a car that probably is pushing 100K and using them in a high performence boosted engine is really the poor mans way of doing it . i dont think ive ever seen the audi race team reuse pistons because "hey they worked good and theres nothing wrong with them now" like i said, if he bought new stock pistons or his car has low mileage or wasnt boosted more then a ko3s go for it, if not id reccommend buying at least new stock pistons or measureing the old ones for tolerence and spec


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_ i dont think ive ever seen the audi race team reuse pistons because "hey they worked good and theres nothing wrong with them now"

Good thing I am not the Audi race team.








99% of the cars on here are STREET CARS, they are not built in sealed laboratories, and are not "required" to meet specs to 1/10,000in. They get driven to work, in traffic, on the weekend, ect. They might see WOT for 10% of their life.
There is doing things the cost effective way and then spending WAY too much money to have the same amount of fun. My cost effective car will see 11's in the 1/4 this year and Haenszel's will see 10's, both on stock re-used pistons.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_or measureing the old ones for tolerence and spec


I like how this was thrown in there...... thus completely negating your argument.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

my argument was their is the correct way, and their is the cheap way... now the cheap way splits into two more, the super cheap WRONG way, and the cheap RIGHT way... im all for re using parts because i understand we arent race teams, but to tell people "oh just reuse your old pistons theres no problem with that" well its a false statement and EVERY time you reuse a part you should have it checked out


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_my argument was their is the correct way, and their is the *cheap* way... now the *cheap* way splits into two more, the super *cheap* WRONG way, and the *cheap* RIGHT way... im all for re using parts because i understand we arent race teams, but to tell people "oh just reuse your old pistons theres no problem with that" well its a false statement and *EVERY time you reuse a part you should have it checked out*

There is cheap and there is COST EFFECTIVE. Cheap is what you get at the dollar store, cost effective is a less expensive solution that produces the same desired result.
BTW, I didn't even think to look at my pistons when I pulled the engine apart, put *new* rings on them and put them back in the block.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (Rogue Status)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rogue Status* »_

BTW, I didn't even think to look at my pistons when I pulled the engine apart, put *new* rings on them and put them back in the block.









that right there is why i cant take you seriously, and that officially ends my involvement in this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_
that right there is why i cant take you seriously, and that officially ends my involvement in this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Good. Now go back and re-read all those books you been reading. You didn't get enough out of them the first time.


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_
that right there is why i cant take you seriously, and that officially ends my involvement in this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

You have GOT to be kidding me, EVERYTHING was checked out when the engine was apart.
You have already contradicted yourself.
OP sorry for the thread rape, back on topic.
You should be ABSOLUTELY fine with IE rods, bearings, rings and all the needed gaskets to replace the rings if you feel comfortable doing the work yourself and have the proper tools. From there you have plenty of options. I would recommend a Kinetic kit, as there manifold and "o2 housing" will mate up to your existing exhaust if you already have one. From there you can opt for a different turbo as the 50 Trim that typically comes with the kit will get you close but not to 400whp on pump. I would look into the Borg Warner S200 series turbos, as well as the GT3076. There are plenty of other options out there but the GT series has been proven to produce the results you seek. The BW turbos are still fairly new to the VW scene but have made excellent numbers on the few cars they have been on.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

i was quick on the trigger and didnt realize that he was being sarcastic. where have i contridicted my self? and yeah maybe i will go back and read one of my engineering textbooks from my undergrad?


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (Rogue Status)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rogue Status* »_
. I would look into the Borg Warner S200 series turbos, as well as the GT3076. There are plenty of other options out there but the GT series has been proven to produce the results you seek. The BW turbos are still fairly new to the VW scene but have made excellent numbers on the few cars they have been on.

you contradicted yourself there.. skimp out on the pistons but spend several thousand on a turbo... guess its all about compromise


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_
you contradicted yourself there.. skimp out on the pistons but spend several thousand on a turbo... guess its all about compromise 

How is that a contradiction? People have made over 500whp on STOCK pistons. The OP's goal is in the 400whp range, I don't see the need to swap them out of a perfectly good engine if they are still in good condition and within VW specs.
BTW, don't know where you shop for turbos, but Garrett GT series and BW turbos are all around $1300, not "several thousand".
Again, this formula has worked for a TON of people, there is no need to overbuild a street car that isn't going to be WOT for the majority of it's life. It is just plain silly to build a bottom end when the stock components aside from the rods have been proven to work time and time again, with excellent results. If you don't consider 600whp excellent, I don't know what is.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

you show me a car with 600 wheel hp and over 50k miles on the setup i would be inclined to agree with you


----------



## slammed86golf (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_MK4 2L turbo.. 16V 2L Trubo... 2.1L stroker turbo, and now building another 2.1L stoker, do you want my non vw projects as well? haha sorry you guys cant afford new pistons but that dosent change the fact that re using pistons from a car that probably is pushing 100K and using them in a high performence boosted engine is really the poor mans way of doing it . i dont think ive ever seen the audi race team reuse pistons because "hey they worked good and theres nothing wrong with them now" like i said, if he bought new stock pistons or his car has low mileage or wasnt boosted more then a ko3s go for it, if not id reccommend buying at least new stock pistons or measureing the old ones for tolerence and spec


you sir make a good point i was going to use my stock ones untill i read this thread and your post realy its not going to cost anymore to put them in because they have to pull the old ones out to put new rings on them anyways. if i am building a motor i want to be able to beat the **** out of it anytime i want and not have to worry about breaking stuff.


_Modified by slammed86golf at 3:55 PM 1-26-2009_


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

my point is ALWAYS check the pistons out... if you dont have the cabbage and your pistons check out ok and your goals are not crazy, go for it! but if you plan on beating on a 600whp car with stock pistons, yeah you might save some money, yeah it might be fine forever. BUT!! that one percent chance of something going wrong is going to cost more then new pistons would have, my only point


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_you show me a car with 600 wheel hp and over 50k miles on the setup i would be inclined to agree with you

Haenszel's car should be over 600whp with the new turbo. Was making well over 500 based on ET and trap speed. To my knowledge the bottom end was used with 30-40K on it and most likely has another 10K of BT abuse on it. Best ET to date was an 11.3.
My car made 350whp on pump gas with a 50 Trim, engine has almost 90K on it, ~4K after the rebuild, ran a 12.8 @ 113 on 215/40R18 street tires, should be a low 12 sec car with slicks.
satisfied?


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (Rogue Status)*

wow all this argueing took a while to catch up on i have thought about this alot sincve my first post and i would like to add that i want to bore the o6a to a 81.5 and have a machine shop put it all together for me. all these arguements got no where on my original question of what kind of compression should i run for a daily abused driven car. 
I WILL USE A STOCK CRANK AND STOCK HEAD FOR THE TIME BEING 
i have no totaly decided on what turbo to buy yet but im pretty sure its gonna be a gt30 series turbo.
i am aiming for 400whp (mentioning this over again) meaning 400 with potential of more (IF AND WHEN I DO HEAD WORK)
i still do not know exactly what compression to run but i want to keep it under 9.5:1 for reliabilty 
I still need help chooseing wht rods and pistons to use








PLEASE NO MORE TALK ABOUT STOCK PISTONS IM NOT USEING THEM








I AM BUYING A SHORT BLOCK SELLING THE INTERNAL EXCEPT THE CRANK AND KEEPING MY BLOCK IN MY CAR STOCK JUST INCASE I BLOW


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (E30 all day)*









Go do some research in the 1.8T forums, if you want to spend the money go ahead. 400whp can be done with MUCH less money and effort than you are proposing.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (Rogue Status)*

no i wanna see a car that had 50k on the pistons then put on a kit that makes 600hp then come back and report after another 50k i dont build cars to last a year then deem them successful. it can be done cheaper or "cost effective"







, and these guys are right. hell screw the IE rods the forged 16v rods are good to 450 with the stock pistons and crank


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

i want to build a bottom end either way my mind is set on that
i plan on useing that bottom end with my stock turbo for the break in then doing suspension work then the turbo and some fueling along with some pipeing and software


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

well apparently im dumb because i put the standards of my build to the highest qualites and standards that race teams strive for. sorry?


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_well apparently im dumb because i put the standards of my build to the highest qualites and standards that race teams strive for. sorry? 

WHOA! Now you want to play that game? Have fun spending money, our economy could actually use the boost.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

hmm im sensing some jealousy, is it my fault i can afford nice things? is it stupid to reccommened the best? i dont think he asked "how cheaply can i slam a 400hp car together"?.. well maybe with the new press he can spread my wealth around to the jealous less well off people such as your self? (not a shot at obama so obaminites calm down, just poking fun)


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_hmm im sensing some jealousy, is it my fault i can afford nice things? is it stupid to reccommened the best? i dont think he asked "how cheaply can i slam a 400hp car together"?.. well maybe with the new press he can spread my wealth around to the jealous less well off people such as your self? (not a shot at obama so obaminites calm down, just poking fun)

Jealousy? I have to see what you are driving now, I really do, I want to know what I am jealous of.
Here I will share first, my POS, I just threw this together, didn't really have a clue what I was doing.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

that really is sexy, but why do you get so but hurt that i reccommend 500 dollar pistons? honestly the price is nothing compared to a new engine, i can understand making comprimiss and not every engine needs JEs but if you can tell me a reason why not? and com back in 5 years and tell me how that set up iis fareing


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

**** rouge i got some questions for YOU now







but i see youve opted for pretty outside as opposed to pretty inside


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

can u guys stop argueing, no one answered my questions like WTF


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (E30 all day)*

wow that set up is sick im not into show at all but OMG














, might make that my backround


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_wow that set up is sick im not into show at all but OMG














, might make that my backround

It is more about function, every part serves a purpose.
I answered it back on page one.
If you want to build a block then go ahead build it. I was trying to help you spend your money more wisely.


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

stock crank will be fine....if your up for it might have everything balanced while it is out. i run 8.5: in my 2.0 8v and i daily that thing and it runs great


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_no i wanna see a car that had 50k on the pistons then put on a kit that makes 600hp then come back and report after another 50k i dont build cars to last a year then deem them successful. it can be done cheaper or "cost effective"







, and these guys are right. hell screw the IE rods the forged 16v rods are good to 450 with the stock pistons and crank









OMFG i cant read anymore. you are being dumb and childish. stop pushing your opinion everyone here has read them enough times you dont like using stock pistons, we get it. this thread isnt about you and your stock piston hating thoughts.








OP i cant tell you want pistons are best cuz i dont have any experience using them. when i put my motor together shawn van neer personally told me JE's are loud and wisecos nice but not needed. i didnt ask about supertech like i should have. IMO if companies like 034 sell them and build motors with them then they MUST be good enough for a 400whp project. as far as rods go there are serveral good options. pauter is probably one of the more popular expensive rods but seriously why pay the money when IE's and scat's are here at only 450 with bearings. im not sure of reading anyone who has broken one yet so they are holding plenty of power. in fact shawns personal car is running a set of IE rods with factory pistons and his car was pushing 550 whp. nuff said there








as far as compression goes i feel that higher is better for a street car. there are lots of people running 10/1 these day and that added compression will not only help daily driving off boost, it will help with getting into boost faster. on my next engine build i will be moving up at least a 2.1 if not a 2.2 and at least 10/1 if not 10.5/1 compression along with either a 30r or 35r. 

good luck with your build E30.











_Modified by velocity196 at 8:45 PM 1-26-2009_


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

whatever everyone can **** off. ill take my 2.1L turbo and go play in the corner !


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (broke_rado)*

Jesus this was a cluster ****....

_Quote, originally posted by *broke_rado* »_Integrated rods, stock pistons, Supertech springs and retainers, Borg Warner s256. Easily make 400whp with right fueling and tune.

going to reuse connecting rod bearings & valve seals? 
Forget OEM exhaust valves lasting beyond 400hp.

_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_i would like to know what kind of internals i should use and what compression would be best to run with a gt30 series turbo (some say use other turbo) which would be best for around 400whp

Assuming your desired power output I am going to assume GT3071R.I get asked this question alot when it comes to engine internals and this is the list I always recommend.Do not go about it half assed regardless of the posts in this thread.
AEB/AWD pistons are cheap enough these days that you can upgrade to a larger wrist pin.

_Quote »_
* SCAT/Brute 144/20mm rods
* USED AEB pistons w/20mm wrist pins
* Reuse your piston rings (if you have the skill)
* OEM connecting rod bearings
* Crankshaft seal (front & rear)
* Cylinder head rebuild kit
* Supertech exhaust valves
* Supertech valve springs
* Supertech Ti retainers (not needed but good to get as a matching package)


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

*FV-QR*

That's funny, i have dozens upon dozens of cars making 400whp on our 19mm drop in setup with no issue, for years now. I disagree 100%, and see NO need to go scavenging junkyards for questionable used AEB pistons. 
Measure the cylinders up and down for cylindricity, if they are in good shape, use stock pistons, if not overbore it and go with one of our 144 x 20mm + pistons setups. Don't be shy to ask us about our price matching as well








Pete


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

http://www.034motorsport.com/p...18643 i came across this while looking at o34 website
would be nice if i wanted to bore it out alot then again i dont really want to set records i just want a reliable daily driver with some balls


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: (E30 all day)*

Yup... stroker kit is also a good choice. We also have one available featuring IE 144x20's: Stroker Kit


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

i think im pretty set 
gt3076r .63 A/R
kinetics top mount manifold uni 630file
630 injectors
walbaro 255
around $4,000
block and internals about $1500 not includeing machine work
81.5 wiesco pistons 
and IE rods 
stock crank
i need a intercooler and some coilover and a clutch now 

_Modified by E30 all day at 11:57 AM 1-27-2009_


_Modified by E30 all day at 12:01 PM 1-27-2009_


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_whatever everyone can **** off. ill take my 2.1L turbo and go play in the corner !









BOO HOO


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_i think im pretty set 
gt3067r .63 A/R
kinetics top mount manifold uni 630file
630 injectors
walbaro 255
around $4,000
block and internals about $1500 not includeing machine work
81.5 wiesco pistons 
and IE rods 
stock crank
i need a intercooler and some coilover and a clutch now 

_Modified by E30 all day at 2:59 AM 1-27-2009_

I heard weiscos were noisey, but don't have experience with them... I would research a bit more about pistons if I were you. If you wanna throw money at it look at Ross Pistons. I've always heard good things about them. Personally I have JE's (stock bore per machinist's recommendation) and Eurospec HD rods in my motor since about 02... That's about all that was available back then.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (Rogue Status)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rogue Status* »_
BOO HOO

now that i have the back story o you , well. im not too concerned what YOU of ll people think of me lol


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_That's funny, i have dozens upon dozens of cars making 400whp on our 19mm drop in setup with no issue, for years now. I disagree 100%, and see NO need to go scavenging junkyards for questionable used AEB pistons. 
Measure the cylinders up and down for cylindricity, if they are in good shape, use stock pistons, if not overbore it and go with one of our 144 x 20mm + pistons setups. Don't be shy to ask us about our price matching as well








Pete

 his point was more about the exhaust valves not taking it over 400, still a 20mm wrist pin is better then 19, and you dont HAVE to use aeb pistons as there are several other newer engine codes that feature the 20mm pin http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_and you dont HAVE to use aeb pistons as there are several other newer engine codes that feature the 20mm pin http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

AWD/APH are about the only ones.... and they were still year 2000.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

better then a 98 passat


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

AEB, AGU, AJQ, APP, APX, BAM, AMU, AUL, APX, AWD and APH engine codes have 20mm wrist pins... sorry sir but i just had to


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

and which ones of those are you going to find in the US?


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_and which ones of those are you going to find in the US?









It doesn't matter OP wants to bore to 81.5. Waisting time here .
OP call pete from IE and ask him bout supertech pistons.


----------



## Rogue Status (Aug 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_
now that i have the back story o you , well. im not too concerned what YOU of ll people think of me lol









Just let it die, or if you want to keep going be a man, and unblock PM.


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

can u guys shut up about original pistons like come on i want a 81.5mm I AM NOT RUNNING ORIGINAL PISTON SIZE


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (Turbo_Pumpkin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turbo_Pumpkin* »_
I heard weiscos were noisey, but don't have experience with them... I would research a bit more about pistons if I were you. If you wanna throw money at it look at Ross Pistons. I've always heard good things about them. Personally I have JE's (stock bore per machinist's recommendation) and Eurospec HD rods in my motor since about 02... That's about all that was available back then.








this is like the first guy that has helped me with my questions


----------



## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

I rock JE's and i love them as well.


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*

some say they are kinda noise with the clacking is that true, what type of oil do u run


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_some say they are kinda noise with the clacking is that true, what type of oil do u run

My JE's don;t make a sound. I run Pentosynth 5w40 OEM oil.... I have heard that when cold, the weiscos are noisey, but once tehy warm up they quiet down, but I have never run them. My buddy did and the rings blew apart. Not sure that was due to pistons, tune or machine work...


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (Turbo_Pumpkin)*

ok thanks for that info im gonna look into a few different pistons. what else could be thrown out into my ball park with pistons dont really care about price right now
what about mayle


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_ok thanks for that info im gonna look into a few different pistons. what else could be thrown out into my ball park with pistons dont really care about price right now
what about mayle 

As I understood it Mayle is an OE manufacturer. Theirs are no better then stock pistons. I could be wrong though.


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (Turbo_Pumpkin)*

i wonder what mayles run i gotta look at them 
what other brand comes into mind


----------



## 20thGTI1873 (Apr 6, 2006)

*Re: (E30 all day)*

Listen man this is what i am doing, it's one of the best setups, will handle 500hp daily driver.... Pauter rods, stock pistons.... the stock pistons in the O2M will handle up to 600, if you replace them for something try and get your compression ratio down, which will give you more OFF boost power, but besides that don't change what you don't have to... besides pauter rods and stock pistons, i'm doing and aeb head, supertech exhaust valves, springs and retainers, stock cams... Kinetics top mount tial 38mm wastegate, and tial Q50mm BOV, 750 injectors, Unitronic software, precision 750 core with custom 2.5 in and 3 in out piping done by ED at Force Fed, which is by far the best shop in LI for VW/AUDI, and a garrett 3582R







, also the Labonte water meth injection from swift motorsports... i am going to run a safe 450- 475whp daily and track with slicks i'll push it to 550 and then drive it home... if you are looking for this much power you must do a clutch, Southbend stage 5 with a 9lb flywheel will be more than enough to plant that power, and raxle axles will make sure you can go home


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (20thGTI1873)*

dam that set up looks pretty serious, pauter rods are pricey and might be considered over building for me, im going to 81.5 to be safe bc the short block i am buying has about 100k on it so i want to be safe


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_That's funny, i have dozens upon dozens of cars making 400whp on our 19mm drop in setup with no issue, for years now. I disagree 100%, and see NO need to go scavenging junkyards for questionable used AEB pistons.
 
"our" 
Ok Pete. We are not going to turn this into a Rod debate....
20mm > 19mm end of story.
Paul's BRUTE connecting rods which come with either a 3/8" or a 7/16" ARP 2000 bolt are the best on the market for the buck right now.Isnt that the reason you are now offering uprated ARP bolts?
Where was your input 2 pages ago when he asked? Instead of whoring out your products @ cut throat prices how about contributing for once?

_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_
block and internals about $1500 not includeing machine work
81.5 wiesco pistons 
and IE rods 
stock crank

That makes no sense.If you are going to bore/hone a block then you might as well go with an 83mm bore piston.
JE's have a by far better piston than Wiseco.Between myself & my partner Rodney,we have been supplying to VW/Audi community with JE pistons for over 5 years with not 1 single reported issue.The only reason most people sell Wiseco now is 1 key word..."PRICE"









_Quote »_
*2008CC KIT*








The most popular kit of the lot for the 06A block,a full "2.0" kit using a Forged OEM crankshaft from the 2.0FSI motor along with OEM quality Forged Supertech Pistons.
*Kit includes:*
*(1)* - 92.8mm Forged 2.0 FSI Forged Crankshaft with correct Oil Pump gear to utilise the stock 1.8T oil pump
*(4)* - SCAT 144mm/20mm Forged Connecting Rods
*(4)* - 83mm Supertech Forged Pistons w/ 8.9:1 nominal Compression Ratio (82.5mm bore available upon request)
*WAS $1799.99 + Shipping*

*FEBRUARY SPECIAL = 1699.99US + SHIPPING for a 2.0L STROKER KIT*
(dont like the price....ask us about replacing the FSI forged crank with an AZG cast crankshaft)


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

agree 100percent with issaan, hanzsal (or however you spell it







) the AMU is the 1.8t in the audi tt225 so there are some of those availible in the US just need to know the AUDI conterparts, hope that helps. i also think you should stroke it, if your going through the trouble of NEW pistons might as well put in a tdi crank, pitguy is selling a BRM forged tdi crank for 250!!!! there you go, a bottom end worthy of 600+ hp


----------



## velocity196 (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (20thGTI1873)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20thGTI1873* »_ if you replace them for something try and get your compression ratio down, which will give you more OFF boost power

Nope, other way around. Higher compression builds more power with less boost.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (velocity196)*


_Quote, originally posted by *velocity196* »_
Nope, other way around. Higher compression builds more power with less boost. 


x2 dont remember last time i saw a N/A car with low comp pistons lol


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_ 
Paul's BRUTE connecting rods which come with either a 3/8" or a 7/16" ARP 2000 bolt are the best on the market for the buck right now.

Gotta love making statements you have absolutely NO way to back up.








Our offering ARP Custom Age has NOTHING to do with other people's using 7/16" bolts, and I stand by my guns about a 7/16" bolt being nothing but dead weight in this application. We simply have access to them easily and choose to pass that option along to the consumer. 
Isn't it funny how one can pick up a Carrillo or pauter catalog, and not find a single 7/16" bolt in import applications... Even those revving higher then us, with heavier pistons and rods. Amazing how if you performed a fatigue life calculation with even the lowly ARP2000 bolt, you would find infinite cycle life even at the highest rpms most 1.8t's will ever see. In fact, the only reason to use the Custom Age 625+ is to cover your butt for any manufacturing or install inconsistencies at extremely high RPM. What a coincidence that none of the biggest names in rods even offer a 7/16" for imports. 
But, it's MUCH easier just to put the biggest thing in there that will fit, and claim that "bigger is better" even when it provides no measurable advantage, and has several measurable disadvantages (more big end distortion, increases big end weight as well as bolt weight, bulky). As I said before, if you are going to make a heavy rod, at least put the material where it counts for this application. 
That is why we are called "Integrated Engineering", not "Integrated Guesswork". 
PS: Wiseco's are good, quiet pistons with excellent machine work. They can be difficult to work with with custom pistons, but the OP wants what happens to be a shelf Wiseco, so that works out extremely well. ANY piston can be loud with incorrect or extremely loose piston to wall clearances. 


_Modified by [email protected] at 1:32 PM 1-27-2009_


----------



## BlakVRBeast (Dec 17, 2006)

dont both of you guys sell the same rods ? lol


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

basically lol


----------



## BlakVRBeast (Dec 17, 2006)

haha thats priceless


----------



## Black Ice (Apr 27, 2006)

rogue and brian are hilarious...hahaha


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Gotta love making statements you have absolutely NO way to back up.









What is there to back up?Brute Rods are:
* Thicker 
* Have a larger ARP bolt
* Machined to a tighter tolerance.
* Made in North America
Do you have a similar product to offer?

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
But, it's MUCH easier just to put the biggest thing in there that will fit, and claim that "bigger is better" even when it provides no measurable advantage, and has several measurable disadvantages (more big end distortion, increases big end weight as well as bolt weight, bulky). As I said before, if you are going to make a heavy rod, at least put the material where it counts for this application. 
That is why we are called "Integrated Engineering", not "Integrated Guesswork". 

Pete I have always loved your ability to talk up a storm.You are acting as thought 7/16" bolts weigh 39878 g's MORE than a 5/16 or 3/8" bolt.Pull it a micrometer and figure out if you can see the diameter difference.
It is a better rod full stop.
Lets not forget that I actually hold an Engineering degree....do not lecture me about "guess work".

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
but the OP wants what happens to be a shelf Wiseco, so that works out extremely well.

Which is also a JE shelf piston.


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

No point to sit here and babysit people all day but i deal with both JE and Wiseco, not the sales people but the actual engineers.
THEY'RE THE SAME COMPANY, marketed in different ways in order to get more people, one's out of Cali, other Ohio.
Wiseco's tend to be a little less noisey though. I use them both (Wiseco and JE) in daily drivers, take it for what it worth.
Brute rods don't need to be whored out, if people don't want to pay for quality then they can buy cheper stuff like the people who keep trying to get a hold of the largest SCAT distributor yet (BF!)
http://www.made-in-china.com spams American business everyday, places like Perfomance Engine Parts in Chengdu, Sichuan, are all about volume.
http://www.made-in-china.com/c....html
They actually don't look that bad








Gentlemen, if that's what you want to put in your motor then congrats, save yourself $50 and you've found your product 
BRUTES are NOT made in China, the rest is up to these 20 year old tunah with cars that don't run to argue.
Enjoy your day
Edit reason: to add that I used both Wiseco and Je's on daily drivers


_Modified by killa at 7:49 PM 1-27-2009_


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (killa)*

http://www.made-in-china.com/s....html
These are my personal favourites....last 2 miles and throw a code


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

whats up with brute vs scat?


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_whats up with brute vs scat?

That's a non issue, made in different locations, Scat is finished in the US though, but you'd have to look at other rods to compare to Scats, Brutes have a better finishing and def not made in China.


----------



## Sparknock (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_funny he said the borg warner as t is based of a simmilar design to the holsets, he is spot on bout internals though, although i always reccommend overboring it as you might as well with the engine apart

thats because B/W is holset and vise versa. oh as for the pistons part. i have 22 year old pistons in a pl block (FULLY STOCK) + one head gasket on 22 psi and i beat the living snot out of it. it has been running like this for hmm i dont know how many mile, but the motor had 100k on it when i started. IT"S ALL IN THE TUNE 
you can have a 15k dollar motor and if your fueling and timing are not correct bye bye motor.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_
What is there to back up?Brute Rods are:
* Thicker 
* Have a larger ARP bolt
* Machined to a tighter tolerance.
* Made in North America


Ha, so you have that it's thicker in what dimension? It uses a larger ARP bolt, which I do not believe, based off my experiance, calculations, and the fact that NO reputable company offers a 7/16" bolt import rod, is a GOOD thing. It is supposedly machined to a tighter tolerance, which is an awfully tough thing for either of us to say about the opposites rods considering neither has measured any considerable quantity of the opposites rods. 
Like I said, Thicker / Bigger / Heavier is EASY. It takes 2 seconds to modify a blueprint to add thicker dimensions here and there. I simply refuse to do that when there is no advantage, and I definitely refuse to market it as if there is!

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









In the end, if thicker / bigger / heavier is the ultimate in one-upsmanship, I should just skip the process and have 30mm wide x 24mm thick solid beams made with 1/2" bolts and declare myself the victor. As I have said before, and you have not refuted in any sort of meaningful manner, there is no LOGICAL REASON to do that, short of pure marketing. As you already show above, you brag about having the 7/16" rod bolts, which are definitely unnecessary. If you think otherwise, feel free to call up Carrillo, Arrow, Pauter, or even R&R, and inform them they are building their import rods wrong. 
Yep, sure seems like you are making claims based on supposed advantages which are either debatable or you just plain don't know about in the first place.







To top it off, you claim "best bang for buck", when you can't provide any evidence that you have any more "bang", and we definitely have less bucks. I would argue that the bang for buck factor still sways in our direction at present. 
Since I know this debate could go on forever, I'm going to bow out of this thread or it will just end up in the black hole. I'll be waiting to see what you put since I KNOW you must have the last word, always.







. 


_Modified by [email protected] at 5:31 PM 1-27-2009_


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_No point to sit here and babysit people all day but i deal with both JE and Wiseco, not the sales people but the actual engineers.
THEY'RE THE SAME COMPANY, marketed in different ways in order to get more people, one's out of Cali, other Ohio.
Wiseco's tend to be a little less noisey though. I use them both (Wiseco and JE) in daily drivers, take it for what it worth.
Brute rods don't need to be whored out, if people don't want to pay for quality then they can buy cheper stuff like the people who keep trying to get a hold of the largest SCAT distributor yet (BF!)
http://www.made-in-china.com spams American business everyday, places like Perfomance Engine Parts in Chengdu, Sichuan, are all about volume.
http://www.made-in-china.com/c....html
They actually don't look that bad








Gentlemen, if that's what you want to put in your motor then congrats, save yourself $50 and you've found your product 
BRUTES are NOT made in China, the rest is up to these 20 year old tunah with cars that don't run to argue.
Enjoy your day
Edit reason: to add that I used both Wiseco and Je's on daily drivers



*so are you saying that "tunahs" on vortex get their rods from China too ??*


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_

*so are you saying that "tunahs" on vortex get their rods from China too ??*



Yes, Vortex "Tunahs" import from China, 100%
You get what you pay for


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (Sparknock)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sparknock* »_
thats because B/W is holset and vise versa. oh as for the pistons part. i have 22 year old pistons in a pl block (FULLY STOCK) + one head gasket on 22 psi and i beat the living snot out of it. it has been running like this for hmm i dont know how many mile, but the motor had 100k on it when i started. IT"S ALL IN THE TUNE 
you can have a 15k dollar motor and if your fueling and timing are not correct bye bye motor. 


no B/W is NOT holset and vice versa http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

where can i see the brutes at? how do they compare to scat...IE? im surprised ive not heard of them


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_agree 100percent with issaan, hanzsal (or however you spell it







) the AMU is the 1.8t in the audi tt225 so there are some of those availible in the US just need to know the AUDI conterparts, hope that helps. i also think you should stroke it, if your going through the trouble of NEW pistons might as well put in a tdi crank, pitguy is selling a BRM forged tdi crank for 250!!!! there you go, a bottom end worthy of 600+ hp








 every time someone ask about a build the first question is what amount of power are u looking for. why over build a block if im not gonna use it.














i want 400 450 i dont want to be a dyno queen i want to put down the power i have














stop posting in my thread dude


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

all this argueing still leaves me in the same postistion what pistons and rods to use
i am boring it .5 and i dont care what people say maybe i wanna rip out the motor and bore it again in a few years
i am not planning on setting records i plan on have a daily drive with some balls


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

wtf do you want from us, you have your answers now **** and quit whining do you want us to build the damn engine too?
"i think im pretty set
gt3076r .63 A/R
kinetics top mount manifold uni 630file
630 injectors
walbaro 255
around $4,000
block and internals about $1500 not includeing machine work
81.5 wiesco pistons
and IE rods
stock crank
i need a intercooler and some coilover and a clutch now"

Modified by E30 all day at 11:57 AM 1-27-2009


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

all u did was make this thread yell from page one with rogue then argueing with everyone else on all the other pages. i wouldn't let u walk my dog never mind build my block














http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif to a bad vortexxer


----------



## Sparknock (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_

no B/W is NOT holset and vice versa http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

my bad thats kkk that got bought out. why you got to be all thumbs down about that?


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (Sparknock)*

dont even ask him please


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

because i liked kkk alot more before they got bought out, holset is the only euro turbomaker left, and even then they are owned by cummings


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

*Re: (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_all u did was make this thread yell from page one with rogue then argueing with everyone else on all the other pages. i wouldn't let u walk my dog never mind build my block














http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif to a bad vortexxer


rogue is a ****ing retard hell tell you he built numerous blocks but word on the street is he didnt even build his own engine though hell claim he did


----------



## Sparknock (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Ha, so you have that it's thicker in what dimension? It uses a larger ARP bolt, which I do not believe, based off my experiance, calculations, and the fact that NO reputable company offers a 7/16" bolt import rod, is a GOOD thing. It is supposedly machined to a tighter tolerance, which is an awfully tough thing for either of us to say about the opposites rods considering neither has measured any considerable quantity of the opposites rods. 
Like I said, Thicker / Bigger / Heavier is EASY. It takes 2 seconds to modify a blueprint to add thicker dimensions here and there. I simply refuse to do that when there is no advantage, and I definitely refuse to market it as if there is!

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









In the end, if thicker / bigger / heavier is the ultimate in one-upsmanship, I should just skip the process and have 30mm wide x 24mm thick solid beams made with 1/2" bolts and declare myself the victor. As I have said before, and you have not refuted in any sort of meaningful manner, there is no LOGICAL REASON to do that, short of pure marketing. As you already show above, you brag about having the 7/16" rod bolts, which are definitely unnecessary. If you think otherwise, feel free to call up Carrillo, Arrow, Pauter, or even R&R, and inform them they are building their import rods wrong. 
Yep, sure seems like you are making claims based on supposed advantages which are either debatable or you just plain don't know about in the first place.







To top it off, you claim "best bang for buck", when you can't provide any evidence that you have any more "bang", and we definitely have less bucks. I would argue that the bang for buck factor still sways in our direction at present. 
Since I know this debate could go on forever, I'm going to bow out of this thread or it will just end up in the black hole. I'll be waiting to see what you put since I KNOW you must have the last word, always.







. 

_Modified by [email protected] at 5:31 PM 1-27-2009_

How are your rods "engineered" 
Are they made in china?




_Modified by Sparknock at 10:04 PM 1-27-2009_


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I'm going to bow out of this thread or it will just end up in the black hole. I'll be waiting to see what you put since I KNOW you must have the last word, always.

PM Sent with full answer to your questions.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

seriously pete put up or shut up... you too issam, pros and cons of heavy(er) rods (with factual data to back up both) go!


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

hopefully this completely useless thread gets LOCKED or blackholed where no one can see it


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

haha not totally useless... it was pretty funny to see to parts makers bicker ;P


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Yep, sure seems like you are making claims based on supposed advantages which are either debatable or you just plain don't know about in the first place.







To top it off, you claim "best bang for buck", when you can't provide any evidence that you have any more "bang", and we definitely have less bucks. I would argue that the bang for buck factor still sways in our direction at present. 

Pete I understand the need/desire to protect your investment but I allready provided the evidence you needed above.
Not much more to it.....

_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_whats up with brute vs scat?

Paul & I started the whole SCAT craze years ago....unfortunately SCAT has been increasing prices on us for years so it came down to a make your own vs buy from us ordeal.
In the end what you got was BRUTE which is a similar construction connecting rod just refined to meet the specs of a growing VW/Audi community.Alot of tiny details are in the rod that you wont find in the competition.


----------



## ftwelder (Feb 27, 2008)

the china question again.. Well?


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (ftwelder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ftwelder* »_the china question again.. Well? 

Brutes are not made in China.
I've already answered the question about the competition on top, 100% made in China.


----------



## vr6_Love (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_pros and cons of heavy(er) rods (with factual data to back up both) go!









i wouldnt mind seeing that either http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif just cuz im curious.


----------



## MauiWowie (Jan 18, 2008)

*Re: Help with build ONLY PEOPLE THAT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT (E30 all day)*

usa babyy








pmd


----------



## dvst8rcbr (May 24, 2005)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_because i liked kkk alot more before they got bought out, holset is the only euro turbomaker left, and even then they are owned by cummings









Cummins there is no g in it.
Shortly you will no longer see Holset on the turbo's but Cummins instead.
To the OP:
I have been out of vw's for a long time, but iirc Billy T, took a 100% stock 1.8t aeb to 490ish WHP. Now that was the raged edge, but was 100% confident that the stock setup was good for 400whp. What most of the people in here don't seem to understand is it comes down to your tune. I would rather spend $2k on a good standalone and some good tunning from a reputable tuner, then on parts that you don't really need.
_edit: I also recall lugnuts tuning a 100% stock 1.8t aeb to 550ish whp _
I could be wrong though, maybe 1.8t's have gotten weaker since the last time I was around. 


_Modified by dvst8rcbr at 5:53 PM 1-31-2009_


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (dvst8rcbr)*

To answer your stock block questions:
Billy T 495-497whp, stock AEB
Me: 507whp, stock block ABA with 2L 16v pistons to drop compression to 9:1, lugnuts tuned this one
Joel Brown: 550xx whp, stock, lugnuts tuned as well.
The stock rod doesn't like going over 300wtq, it will hold more than that 300wtq but it's really a matter of time before it lets go, it can last you 3 years at 300wtq and a couple of months at 350wtq, this is all assuming that the tune's good.
My original goal was just to break the stock block record, but i knew that the motor wouldn't last forever so I built one that could take the abuse.
Torque is a better unit to reference, this way we can include diesels too.
Buddy of mine popped 2 rods at 30-32 psi after about 6 months of abuse, motor was an ALH (tdi) and the torque was 375 wheel. HP was only 175 since the motor doesn't rev much.

Hope this helps.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

wow tow more post missing the point... he wants to over bore .5mm, what good willl stock pistons do


----------



## SlowVRT (Jan 3, 2009)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

vr6 > 1.8t


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

VRT > 1.8t > vr6 

i fixed it for ya


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_wow tow more post missing the point... he wants to over bore .5mm, what good willl stock pistons do 

I use Wiseco and Je's, Wiseco's tend to be a bit quiter.
Recomend both


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

i have never had a noise problem with my JEs, id like someone to go into further detail of the reasons why the JEs are louder


----------



## Vortexpert (Apr 17, 2008)

*Re: (E30 all day)*

E30 all day:
talk to slowgolf, hes got a nice build 
talk to gtiguy12, hes got a nice build
both have the internalls and engine work.. 
just a little food for thought


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

slowgolfs build is in limbo...


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

This thread is still going? Man.....


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

haha


----------



## SlowGolf1 (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_slowgolfs build is in limbo... 


Oh really. I drive it daily you should come by to see it sitting in limbo


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

My Je's aren't really loud either, piston to wall clearance is 50 thousands due to a bit higher silicon content, my wiseco's are 30 thousands.
Just a matter of they're made.
OP, you might want to look at a project build, very simple way to turn a 1.8t into a 2liter T.
http://www.audizine.com/forum/...05602
I did that to help people, car's a daily driver and works flawlessly.


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (Vortexpert)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Vortexpert* »_E30 all day:
talk to slowgolf, hes got a nice build 
talk to gtiguy12, hes got a nice build
both have the internalls and engine work.. 
just a little food for thought
thanks, might be putting the build on hold i want to get together some more money and i might be buying a 20th for a few grand to part out

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_This thread is still going? Man..... 
 i know








_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_My Je's aren't really loud either, piston to wall clearance is 50 thousands due to a bit higher silicon content, my wiseco's are 30 thousands.
Just a matter of they're made.
OP, you might want to look at a project build, very simple way to turn a 1.8t into a 2liter T.

idk if i wanna do all that boreing is pretty dam exspensive and as a billion people told me im dumb and i should only use stock pistons even though i stated a million times i want to go 81.5 just so i know i dont have to worry about cylinder warpage bc im evenually gonna buy a short block 
thanks for the help though


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

people that stay stock bore are dumb.... over bore to .5mm is about 25 a piston.. 100 bucks is not terrible for more power. you will make more power on a 81.5 then a 81 with the same setup EVERYTIME, most people dont do it because they dont have an engine out of their car to send off to get bored, hell if you mechanically inclined a .5 m over bore is not hard to do yourself (note that you MUST get the correct tools or its really crappy







)


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_people that stay stock bore are dumb.... over bore to .5mm is about 25 a piston.. 100 bucks is not terrible for more power. you will make more power on a 81.5 then a 81 with the same setup EVERYTIME, most people dont do it because they dont have an engine out of their car to send off to get bored, hell if you mechanically inclined a .5 m over bore is not hard to do yourself (note that you MUST get the correct tools or its really crappy







)

My car is stock bore. Thanks for calling me dumb though. It's been fine for the last 5 years and makes plenty of power considering the turbo choices I have made.


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (E30 all day)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E30 all day* »_thanks, might be putting the build on hold i want to get together some more money and i might be buying a 20th for a few grand to part out
i know







idk if i wanna do all that boreing is pretty dam exspensive and as a billion people told me im dumb and i should only use stock pistons even though i stated a million times i want to go 81.5 just so i know i dont have to worry about cylinder warpage bc im evenually gonna buy a short block 
thanks for the help though

No problem man, all i can do is give real world advice, it may or may not work for you.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

well you would make more power with a bigger bore.. stock bore is fine, but to say its dumb to over bore by .5mm while the block is out of the car and disassemble is ignorant


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_well you would make more power with a bigger bore.. stock bore is fine, but to say its dumb to over bore by .5mm while the block is out of the car and disassemble is ignorant 

Now I'm ignorant. my whole block was built in a machine shop by a machinist. WOW. I'm such a RETARD!







Too bad I didn't know you 6 years ago when I was doing this.... My car could be soooo much better.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_well you would make more power with a bigger bore..

This is not definitive by any means.


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
This is not definitive by any means.

Possibly faster spool, but I've never seen anything about more power... More power at a certain boost level maybe? But who cares about boost level, turn up the boost more. Boost is the replacement for displacement! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Good to know that I'm both dumb and ignorant though... way to make friends around here... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

the comment boost is the replacement for displacement is the reason i cannot stand to make friends in this forum.... also why there are so many blown ko3 and ko3s out there. yet another brilliant comment


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_people that stay stock bore are dumb.... over bore to .5mm is about 25 a piston.. 100 bucks is not terrible for more power. you will make more power on a 81.5 then a 81 with the same setup EVERYTIME, most people dont do it because they dont have an engine out of their car to send off to get bored, hell if you mechanically inclined a .5 m over bore is not hard to do yourself (note that you MUST get the correct tools or its really crappy







)

DO you even own a running car?
You love to run your yap all over the place.......but where is your great car?
and to tell sombody they can do a .5 over bore themselves at home is by far the dumbest thing to come out of your mouth so far......
I think the sun in AZ has melted your tiny brain.....
build your own junk and stop giving advice for things you do not know about.


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

salsa **** off OBC sucks and so do all you **** in it, hope you had fun getting taken for a BS ride from jeff


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

and a .5mm overbore is NOTHING, with the right tools


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

E30,
Sorry to jack your thread. There are tons of people that have commented in this thread who have build and continue to build nice BT cars. I'm sure you can weed through all of this mess to see what's important and what is not. As I saw in someone's signature on here, there is a big difference between "I am am doing, and I have done" and I'm sure you can see it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Good luck with your build.


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (dvst8rcbr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dvst8rcbr* »_
Cummins there is no g in it.
Shortly you will no longer see Holset on the turbo's but Cummins instead.
To the OP:
*I have been out of vw's for a long time, but iirc Billy T, took a 100% stock 1.8t aeb to 490ish WHP. Now that was the raged edge, but was 100% *confident that the stock setup was good for 400whp. What most of the people in here don't seem to understand is it comes down to your tune. I would rather spend $2k on a good standalone and some good tunning from a reputable tuner, then on parts that you don't really need.
_edit: I also recall lugnuts tuning a 100% stock 1.8t aeb to 550ish whp _
I could be wrong though, maybe 1.8t's have gotten weaker since the last time I was around. 

_Modified by dvst8rcbr at 5:53 PM 1-31-2009_

You left out the part where Billy T entered in one of the first 1.8t challenges in European car MAg...and did realy well against tuner shops and profesional drivers....
your right...what the heck does he know....
and Kevin Black...He knows nothing I supose....he only manufactures plug and play stand alone and has some orange drag VW...and can tune a VW blindfolded....so he knows nothing either....
I guess all the VW knolage is in AZ


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

^its about time someone agrees with me on 2lturbo 
he told me im dumb and i should not even bore it bc there is no power difference and that i wont even feel the difference i trying to explain any block i get is going to have unknown millage but i guess he has never heard of cylinder warpage

i hate people that are hypocrites and argue with everyone 
2lturbo i have told u many times please leave my forum ur useless knowledge should be saved to yourself. please leave my thread from page one all u have done is argue with person after person





















fail to you http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_salsa **** off OBC sucks and so do all you **** in it, hope you had fun getting taken for a BS ride from jeff

Umm yea...
I'm running 034efi stage 1C on my car 
so go bum a welder and some other parts and try to make a manifold for your junk ass clown


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
Umm yea...
I'm running 034efi stage 1C on my car 
so go bum a welder and some other parts and try to make a manifold for your junk ass clown









sure OBC sucks
OWNER 
BUILT 
CARS
yea they suck.....
JACK ASS


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

hahaha 
OWNER BUILT CARS
2lturbo how dumb are u
o but yeah u have an engineers license, bc my mom wouldn't be able to get one too if she wanted to


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

We're doing it wrong.
Shucks.


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (haenszel)*

i made this thread to ask about how to decide on rods and pistons to use for a 81.5 build and right away that idiot came in here arguing about stock pistons how its a better idea to use a stock bore


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

i know what OBC means, you guys are all asses man case in point


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

I NEVER SAID USE A STOCK BORE YOU **** HEAD!


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_i know what OBC means, you guys are all asses man case in point

OnlineBootyCall?
http://www.google.com/search?q...fox-a


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_I NEVER SAID USE A STOCK BORE YOU **** HEAD!

sloth angry.


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (haenszel)*

2LTurbo (1:35 PM 2-3-2009): you are a ****ing d bag, roast me all you will on you thread, but you hve no idea who i am or who im friends with in the industry, i pity you
how do u block pms from people u dont even know
and i dont care who u know my whole family has been in the field for countless numbers of years but im gonna listen to u
and i dont care if u pity me bc oviosly many poeple on this forum pity u http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

later when i have more time im gonna look through my pms with u that i wasted my time talking to u in
go start editing u hypocrite


_Modified by E30 all day at 9:33 PM 2-3-2009_


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (E30 all day)*

aagh. I'm out of this argument. He knows people in the industry. I can't compete with that.


----------



## turboit (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
OnlineBootyCall?
http://www.google.com/search?q...fox-a

LMMFAO!!


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_aagh. I'm out of this argument. He knows people in the industry. I can't compete with that.

Oh no, people "in the industry".... I'm out too... This is too hardcore for me...


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

haha thread ruined... my work here is done


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)

and i will edit nothing, it was my intention to BS and jerk you around from the start, this thread was stupid from the beginning, all the questions you asked have been answered 100 times over im glad this thread is garbage now, hopefully it will serve as a lesson to people that maybe the search button will get you better results.. that way irate users such as myself dont have to wade through thread after thread of crap topics to find interesting build or pertinent information... thus ends my involvement in destroying this thread ....\


----------



## Turbo_Pumpkin (Feb 22, 2002)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_and i will edit nothing, it was my intention to BS and jerk you around from the start, 

God I love vortex... D-bag.


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
OnlineBootyCall?
http://www.google.com/search?q...fox-a


Damn my secret is out








2LTurbo.....
you should stick to boring engines with a ridge reamer...and do lest posting on the internets.
Back on topic....
I would get wisco pistons and brute rods from Paul and be done with it....
Oh and i forgot Paul with his Holley Commander Stand alone 16v ABA turbo with 468 whp...because that is just not possible without a ridge reamer and forged everything...including rocker sills and floor matz......


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2LTurbo* »_and i will edit nothing, it was my intention to BS and jerk you around from the start, this thread was stupid from the beginning, all the questions you asked have been answered 100 times over im glad this thread is garbage now, hopefully it will serve as a lesson to people that maybe the search button will get you better results.. that way irate users such as myself dont have to wade through thread after thread of crap topics to find interesting build or pertinent information... thus ends my involvement in destroying this thread ....\
i love how u say this but ur the own who ruined the thread from the beginning i hate people like u who think they know everything 
and for u to say that u did it purposely ....hahaha thats said man waht a loser go get laided u f***ing idiot 
"oh i wanted this thread to go bad meanwhile im on every page of it"


----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (E30 all day)*

best part is people PM me and tell me not to listen to u from day own of the thread. worst vortexxer i have ever encounted


----------



## 2LTurbo (Aug 26, 2008)




----------



## E30 all day (Oct 18, 2007)

*Re: (2LTurbo)*

^28 years old 
im laughing


----------

