# Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions



## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

Just looking for a little advice regarding tire choice. I'm looking to replace the Bridgestone Potenza G009's on my 2003 Jetta 1.8T (225/45-17 tire size). I just wanted to check and see what all season tire does the best in snowy conditions. 
I checked tirerack.com and it seems that the Dunlop SP Sport Signature gets pretty good ratings for snow traction. I have been fairly dissapointed with the traction that the Bridgestones offer in light snow so am looking for some improvement over them. I don't get quite enough snow where I live to justify purchasing some dedicated snow tires - but just want the best all season tire for winter conditions.
Thanks a ton!


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## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (abekauf)*

I'll follow up my first question with another one...
Are there any good winter tires that can serve as decent all-season tires as well?
Thanks again!


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (abekauf)*

safest choice... the NOKIAN WR or WR G2 all-weather plus, year rounders that qualify for severe service emblem. the g2 has low rolling resistance. you can see about a 6% savings in fuel w/ this guy.
check http://www.nokiantires.com hakkapeliitta!! join the attack!
other winter tires







that compare to nokians all-weathers







would be dunlop winter sports, michelin pilot alpins, blizzak lm-22s, basicly any other manufacturer's winter tire that is h or v rated.
_Modified by teutoned at 4:07 PM 12-22-2008_


_Modified by teutoned at 4:07 PM 12-22-2008_


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (teutoned)*

cant beat the tire he mentioned ^^^, try michelin pilot exalto a/s, ive had great luck with them, often times passing subarus on hills


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## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (orionz06)*

Thanks for the replies... yeah - after I posted I found lots of great reviews on the Nokian WR tire - very tempting. Certainly a little on the pricey side though. Would that tire perform well in the 90 degree heat we receive here in VA from late May through September? I'm not one to push my car really hard to I'm not looking for a super high-performance tire, just something that will last a while.
Regarding the Michelin Pilot Exalto A/S - that tire is very highly rated on TireRack.com for winter performance. The Dunlop SP Sport Signature also gets good ratings in that category as well - anyone have experience with that tire?


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (abekauf)*

each time the rubber on a tire "heat cycles", gets hot and gets cold it gets a little bit harder. each choice is a compromise. you give something up in one category to gain something in another. your michelin or dunlop MIGHT last a bit longer than the wr but blow in the winter. the nokian wr or wr g2 all-weather plus may compromise your pocket book but will not compromise your family and friends safety!!


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## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (teutoned)*

Hm... those Nokian WR tires are really really tempting. I could get a set of 4 from mktire.com for $734 including shipping.
Does that sound like a reasonable price for these tires?


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (abekauf)*

might want to look at the potenza 960 or the new goodyear eagle...both all-season...have had the 960 before and it's great...and I hear good things about the eagle too (plus it's less expensive)
when is tirerack going to do a track test on 960 vs new goodyear eagle? this is the time of year to test an all-season tire so people who don't want a winter tire can look at other all-season options


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2008)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (pturner67)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pturner67* »_might want to look at the potenza 960 or the new goodyear eagle...both all-season...have had the 960 before and it's great...and I hear good things about the eagle too (plus it's less expensive)
when is tirerack going to do a track test on 960 vs new goodyear eagle? this is the time of year to test an all-season tire so people who don't want a winter tire can look at other all-season options

Sorry, wasn't able to squeeze that test in this year !


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## Bob Weaver (Jun 14, 2006)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (teutoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teutoned* »_safest choice... the nokian wr or wr g2 all-weather plus, year rounders that qualify for severe service emblem. the g2 has low rolling resistance. you can see about a 6% savings in fuel w/ this guy.
check http://www.nokiantires.com hakkapeliitta!! join the attack!
other winter tires








that compare to nokians all-weathers







would be dunlop winter sports, michelin pilot alpins, blizzak lm-22s, basicly any other manufacturer's winter tire that is h or v rated.


What he said.


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## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

I still have lots of tread left on my Bridgestone Potenza G009's on the rear of my car (around 8/32" remaining). Would it be ok to install two Nokian WR G2's on the front of my car? I've always heard you're not supposed to mix and match different types of tires...


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## enim (Jan 3, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Don't mix those tires. You'll have great traction up front, not as great in the back, and you'll be more dangerous that way. Get four of the Nokian's and you'll never regret it.
Another (hard to find) option would be Vredestein Wintrac Extremes or Quatrac.


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## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (enim)*

Yeah... that's what I figured. I guess I just have to man up and shell out the $800+ for a set of four of those tires.


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (abekauf)*

if your vehicle has ESP or some type of traction control sytem, you should have 4 matching tires of size,tread design, and tread depth!!! any mismatch increases the probabilty your system won't function correctly. a nokian all-weather tire's "adhesion" factor is MUCH greater than other manufacturers' all-seasons in slippery condtions. never pair them up.


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## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

Would there be any benefit in purchasing a 215/50-17 tire over a 225/45-17 for winter traction? I've read in a few places that a taller and narrower tire will do better in snow then a shorter wider tire.
Would the handling characteristics change much with the different tire size?


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (abekauf)*

check out the Goodyear Eagle GT's. $500 a set. 225/45/17 Best new w rated all season tire out there now. Plus there half the price of many others in its category. i love mine. Read the reviews and what other ppl have to say about them and how they compare them to Yoko S4's and Bridgestone 960's wich are about $1000 a set 225/45/17.


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (kylem)*

w-rated in the snow????????










_Modified by teutoned at 9:51 AM 12-20-2008_


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (teutoned)*

ya w rated you get the superior handling in dry summer conditions and it also handles and bites extremly well in the snow. It also cuts right threw water with its shutes in the tread design. You should really check this tire out. I couldnt be any more plz with thise tire on my car. I always hated goodyear but they really did make extremly good w rated a/s tire this time.


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: (teutoned)*

It's not for 150mph in the snow, it's for 150mph when it's not snowy.








Also, does anyone have first hand experience with the Nokians in summer weather. I would really like to get a set and don't want to have a dedicated winter set-up.


_Modified by thetwodubheads at 11:17 AM 12-20-2008_


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## abekauf (Sep 4, 2007)

I would also be very interested to see how the Nokians hold up in the summer weather. I seem to have read in a few places where people commented that their tread life really wears down quickly when this tire is used year round.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_check out the Goodyear Eagle GT's. $500 a set. 225/45/17 Best new w rated all season tire out there now. Plus there half the price of many others in its category. i love mine. Read the reviews and what other ppl have to say about them and how they compare them to Yoko S4's and Bridgestone 960's wich are about $1000 a set 225/45/17. 

as of 12/21/2008 on tirerack....goodyear eagle's are $428 and potenza 960's are $624 for a set of 4...isn't $1000 a slight exaggeration? and calling the GT the best w-rated out there is subjective...there are no tests as of today that compare these tires


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (pturner67)*

i went directly to Bridgestone for the 960's The price for set a 4 tires mount balance and warranty came to $1000. ok so you buy your tires from tirerack.com. Pay for shipping then pay for mount and balance, then pay for the warranty. Trust me you at $1000
The tire is already 4 yrs old. New technology has surpassed the mushy unresponsive with lower m/p/g (direct from tire rack custormers) 
you must have not seen the video review tested in a R32. Google it. Tire rack has already tested the Eagle GT's 
But more importantly read the customer reviews compared to the same car that you have.
Dont just read good reviews.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (kylem)*

ptuner why do you follow me and keep going to every post that i go to. Listen man just because you had a crappy pair of Good years in the past doesnt mean that all there tires are bad. I had a terrible pair of tires (viva's) from Goodyear and i told myself i would never buy Goodyears again untill i put 3 different sets of tires on my car and returned them and then when i tried the eagle Gt's and they out performed any that i tried.
stop following me you are a stalker and are scarring me. 
GG dude.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (kylem)*

i paid $440 for my Eagle GT's tire/ mount and balance/ warranty/ and i had a $80 mail in rebate from a Good year employee. Free alignment check to. Thats $360! i also get free rotation and ballance lifetime of the tire. i saved $500 store is called Conrads. Look it up and dry your eyes. and the tire is w rated. and handles better in the rain and snow. i would never buy tires off of tire rack. what are you going to do when you pick up a nail? or how about when you have uneven wear or other problems? You have to pay someone to rotate and ballance you tires every 3k miles. 
GG dude


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_i paid $440 for my Eagle GT's tire/ mount and balance/ warranty/ and i had a $80 mail in rebate from a Good year employee. Free alignment check to. Thats $360! i also get free rotation and ballance lifetime of the tire. i saved $500 store is called Conrads. Look it up and dry your eyes. and the tire is w rated. and handles better in the rain and snow. i would never buy tires off of tire rack. what are you going to do when you pick up a nail? or how about when you have uneven wear or other problems? You have to pay someone to rotate and ballance you tires every 3k miles. 
GG dude

with tirerack and repairs its pretty simple, read on their site how it works... 

and the w-rating doesnt make it awesome in the snow, the use of a good compound and a tread pattern that will evacuate water and shed snow will make it good... 
uneven wear is also not a fault of the tire, thus not tireracks issue, it is the problem of the driver who neglected the tire to begin with...


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_i went directly to Bridgestone for the 960's The price for set a 4 tires mount balance and warranty came to $1000. ok so you buy your tires from tirerack.com. Pay for shipping then pay for mount and balance, then pay for the warranty. Trust me you at $1000
The tire is already 4 yrs old. New technology has surpassed the mushy unresponsive with lower m/p/g (direct from tire rack custormers) 
you must have not seen the video review tested in a R32. Google it. Tire rack has already tested the Eagle GT's 
But more importantly read the customer reviews compared to the same car that you have.
Dont just read good reviews.

first off, it's scaring, not scarring...








second, I happen to be in the tire forums and manage to read the posts you place here...a logical response doesn't mean that I am stalking you...sorry if the truth in my posts offends you...but that's just the way of the world...others have disagreed with me before but that doesn't mean I went crying to my mommy...so stop getting your panties in a bunch
as for price on the 960, there are places out there (like tiresplus, ntb, just tires, etc) that match tirerack prices...install is 10-25 per tire depending on if you want the lifetime road hazard and lifetime wheel balancing....so...maybe about $700-750 max out the door for the 960...still considerably short of $1000
as for the test tirerack did, that did not compare the GT versus the 960 (Continental ContiExtremeContact, Goodyear Eagle GT, Kumho Ecsta ASX and Yokohama AVID W4s were tested)...but let's compare some numbers....in the test with the 960 versus the Conti, the 960 got a 7.31 and the Conti got a 6.56...in the test with the new Eagle GT versus the Conti, the Eagle GT got a 6.78 and the Conti got a 6.57....now, the Conti scores were almost identical which means tirerack is pretty darn accurate with their tests....so, logic would tell us that the test between the 960 and the new Eagle GT would get the same scores (960 with 7.31 versus GT with 6.78)...by the way, I am not saying the 960 is better...I don't know 100% if it is...I am just saying that you are making blanket statements about ranking that are not proven/verified yet...if you think I am stalking you, then you have obviously read all of my other posts and have noticed that I said very plainly that the new Eagle GT is getting good feedback so far
merry christmas everyone










_Modified by pturner67 at 8:37 AM 12-22-2008_


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (thetwodubheads)*

i typically see anywhere from 20,000-30,000 miles out of wr in the performance oriented 16",17" sizes but do have customers that see close to 50. too many factors play a role in how a tire last. most of our vehicles are not set up with their tire straight up and down (camber) or dead ahead straight (toe) inherently they will wear a tire unevenly. next what type of road surfaces is it being driven on? colorado has crushed granite roads. sharp pointy rocks don't do much for a tire. nokian states that the new wr g2 is an improvement in dry weather drivabilty of the older wr. we'll wait and see...


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## bdodge (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (abekauf)*

I bought some Advan S4's which were supposedly really good in the snow/ice and let me tell you I WISH i had my Pirelli P6's back. They were GREAT in ANY snow/ice condition. I was flying thru Vail last winter over the mountains passing everyone with not a worry in the world. These Advans SUCK in the snow/ice. My ABS locks up everytime I hit the brakes.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (bdodge)*

interesting that you say the S4's do not hangle good in snow. Most ppl gave good review about them, but Yoko is noted that all of there tires handle bad in the snow. The pirelli P6 was only good for 10 miles then they get real noisy and rough. But if it get good traction then its worth it. I remeber seeing the p6's on sale to. 
we keep getting more and more snow in midwest and i am loving the Eagle gt's. it is so much better then the stock pilot mxm4. i had a very small budget for tires and i went with a good a/s tire that still handles like a w rate tire and save $ while i did it. There were alot of other tires i wanted to get but they were all to expensive. 
im happy i have new rubber.
But my origina quote goes to someone that wants a good all season tire that handles great in the winter and summer and yet save $. They match really good on a 225/45/17 
Good year tested them on a R32's you can google it. They also used a BMW and some other car with 2 other types of tires.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: Best All-Season Tire for Winter Conditions (kylem)*

Yes chamfer is often over looked. My mechanic told me that foreign car usally have a slight offset in chamfer? Is that true? 


_Modified by kylem at 8:49 PM 12-23-2008_


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (orionz06)*

i know that w rated a/s doesnt mean its awesome in the snow. W rated means that is a w rated tire and it is also a a/s tire. But the tread design has a special a/s section on the tire. My car was almost impossible to drive in the light snow and slush. Now i have better grip and traction and when its dry this w rated tire performs great. There was a significant differance in ride quality and handling when i switched from H rated to w rated. I noticed sharper faster corning. Ultra smooth no wobble at speeds over 80mph. It is really good for high way driving. It is also 5pounds heavier then the stock stock seems to absorb bumps and imperfections with a softer feel.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (kylem)*

ptuner i dont care about tire rack or any other statements that one tire is better then the other.
I recomending to the person that made this post from someone that has a tire and it has prooved to me that it does exactly what it says.
Most ppl take in consideration the price of something before they buy it just like me. Im happy with my w rated a/s tire. I also saved $500 
When someone ask wich is a good a/s tire i gave my personal opinion. I dont need you to contradict me and go on and on about how some other tire is better and $500 more expensive. There are many bad review for all of the w rated a/s tires from tire rack and discount tire direct. i havent seen any bad reviews from the Eagle GT's expect from someone that used them on a German racing speedway but still gave the tire a good over all review. 
NTB will not price match online competitors and they are noted for telling ppl that they need brakes when they actually dont. That came directly from a former employee from NTB that now work at Sears. 
You should stay out of other ppls conversations since you are not giving advice or helping them. gg stalker.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_ptuner i dont care about tire rack or any other statements that one tire is better then the other.

then don't refer people to the reviews on tirerack

_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_I dont need you to contradict me and go on and on about how some other tire is better and $500 more expensive. There are many bad review for all of the w rated a/s tires from tire rack and discount tire direct. i havent seen any bad reviews from the Eagle GT's expect from someone that used them on a German racing speedway but still gave the tire a good over all review.

there you go again with the tirerack reviews...as for contradicting you, I can and will give my opinion regardless of whether it agrees with you or contradicts you...again, that's life...it'll happen from time to time...get used to it


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_NTB will not price match online competitors and they are noted for telling ppl that they need brakes when they actually dont. That came directly from a former employee from NTB that now work at Sears.

untrue...NTB will price match...as for recommending unnecessary services, I am unaware...but you are also not forced to purchase the recommended services


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_You should stay out of other ppls conversations since you are not giving advice or helping them.

the "conversation" is in an open forum and was directed to anyone who could offer advice...my advice is sound and backed by 25 years experience
Merry Christmas everyone...I hope Santa was good to you guys and gals


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (pturner67)*

yes the former employee quit because the manager of NTB was shady. Wich tell me bad managers and D.M.'s and R.M.'s 
im not here to tell you about the reviews from tire rack. im here to reply to the person that wrote this post that i have the tire that i talk about and it does every thing as stated from the manufacture. 
You just have a problem with Goodyears and you insist that there w- rated a/s tire Eagle GT is crap. I think you are now jelous now that you researched the tire and found out that it is superior to you h rated Michelins.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
You just have a problem with Goodyears and you insist that there w- rated a/s tire Eagle GT is crap. I think you are now jelous now that you researched the tire and found out that it is superior to you h rated Michelins. 

kylem, you need to read more carefully...I don't run Michelins and have never run Michelins...I currently run the new Potenza 760 w-rated summer tire...and I have stated more than once that the new Goodyear Eagle GT is getting good reviews...I even recommended the new Eagle GT to one of my friends because it is in his price range
now...I have said that previous Goodyear tires have had issues with premature treadwear...but that doesn't mean I think all Goodyears are trash
it's very clear you love the new Eagle GT...time will tell (ie treadwear) whether you continue to love the tire


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (pturner67)*

I dont think i will reach or get to the 50k mile warranty that they have. If i get more the 30k miles i will be happy since i only got to 30k miles on a set of very expensive Michelins that i just took off.
The Eagle do have a few things i dont like about them. For example the rim protector. It has this oversized lip that protect the rim. However it sticks out so far that it makes it look like the tire is to big and the rim protector has a lip that collects water/salt, and dirt. 
However the rim protector and sidewall has alot of thick rubber to prevent sidewall damage and nails,curves.
i also had to keep the psi at exactly 35psi in the front and 42 psi in the back (just like my old one) but the slightest under inflate causes the a mushy laggy ride.


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (kylem)*

i was thinking about going up to Costco or somewhere and getting my tires filled with Nitrogen. 
I keep my car outside in the cold so i think that nitrogen would hold the psi a bit better. 
I *dont* think that nitrogen will give me better gas milage or improve the ride.
It was tested that nitrogen will help extend the life of the tire and help with even treadwear.

I might just try it for sheetz and giggles since its free at Costco if you have a member ship.
Whats your opinion about the whole nitrogen thing?


_Modified by kylem at 8:19 PM 12-26-2008_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
Whats your opinion about the whole nitrogen thing?
_Modified by kylem at 8:19 PM 12-26-2008_

some people swear it helps (lowering moisture in tire and regulating psi within a few pounds by not heating up as much as normal air)...but from anyone I have spoken to, it's snake oil...no noticeable benefit beyond placebo effect
if it's free, go for it...but I wouldn't pay money to have it done...proper inflation within a pound or two, rotating/balancing tires every 5k miles or so, and proper alignment are more important


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (pturner67)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pturner67* »_
some people swear it helps (lowering moisture in tire and regulating psi within a few pounds by not heating up as much as normal air)...but from anyone I have spoken to, it's snake oil...no noticeable benefit beyond placebo effect
if it's free, go for it...but I wouldn't pay money to have it done...proper inflation within a pound or two, rotating/balancing tires every 5k miles or so, and proper alignment are more important


snake oil...
the air that is compressed into your tires now is ~78% nitrogen...
nitrogen will expand/condense at the same rate as air, in fact for any engineering calculation i have done from college to employment, the factor for air and nitrogen is the same... that means if i were to determine the loss of pressure of air or nitrogen in tires, the pressure drop would be the same...

there is some arguement over permation through the rubber, but at the shop i worked at we did an experiment... two tires the same size (they were balancer calibration tires) and brand on the same wheel... using a steel valve stem and some hoses, we hooked up a gauge to a tire filled with air (we used an airline dryer btw) and one with nitrogen... over the course of a few months, the tires lost no pressure, and the guages were stuck at the same spot (not stuck, but didnt move)

long story short, anyone who attempts to justify nitrogen vs air (assuming airline dryers are used) is a fool and should be stripped of their right to an opinion...
the best thing i have ever heard was this... the biggest benefit can be obtained by removing the air from all tires. Proceed to inflate with a hand pump. The weight reduction of the driver after inflation will be more noticeable than the use of nitrogen...

there are some extreme circumstances where nitrogen becomes useful, but even then, not much benefit over air... in racing, the use of nitrogen is more so because there is a certain guarentee of little to no moisture... 

now, the kicker, when approached by several companies to purchase a nitrogen generator, they most pure we could get was 95-97% nitrogen... so there will still be plain old air in the tire then...


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
It was tested that nitrogen will help extend the life of the tire and help with even treadwear.
_Modified by kylem at 8:19 PM 12-26-2008_


this one deserves its own post...

nitrogen can increase the life of the tire... the comparison is based on extreme amounts of moisture in the tire, and then the carcass rotting from heat cycles... this is next to impossible to see happen with the tires we use today. i have never once seen a tire that was subject to that type of damage, even on rvs and a few rigs.
and nitrogen cannot produce more even treadwear than air or any other gas in the tire. the result is the same pressure acting on the same area, resulting in the same footprint and the same squash and the same flex, and therefore the same treadwear...

do you have any links to the sites that suggested this insane idea?


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (orionz06)*

hey orionz...you and I agree...like I said before, I think it's snake oil
but here's a few of many links claiming nitrogen will save us all:
http://getnitrogen.org 
http://nitrogenman.com/faq_03_2007.htm 
http://purigen98.com 
http://www.belletire.com/nitronize/


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (pturner67)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pturner67* »_hey orionz...you and I agree...like I said before, I think it's snake oil
but here's a few of many links claiming nitrogen will save us all:
http://getnitrogen.org 
http://nitrogenman.com/faq_03_2007.htm 
http://purigen98.com 
http://www.belletire.com/nitronize/ 


they are all correct, to a point and they use the gray area to whore nitrogen and inturn sell the machines...
every reputable garage should have an air line dryer, which will reduce the moisture in the tires...
i have yet to see tires leak any great deal (still lose air) with air... the molecule may be larger, but remember, the difference is 22% of the volume being able to escape more easily through the plies... 

when they talk about more even treadwear, they assume with air you run them flat... if you have TPMS, this arguement is void, because you know when to add air and that is that...
i wont argue if my tires get inflated with nirogen, hell that have some now lol, but to pay for it is insane... just another ploy, especially get nitrogen.org....

they basically assume if you run nitrogen you have TPMS and check the air everyday, and if you dont use nitrogen, you run old tires at half pressure, dress it up a bit and you have a good site to sell... these must be the same people that put together the obama campaign...


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (orionz06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionz06* »_
these must be the same people that put together the obama campaign...









oh...you mean CHANGE to nitrogen for a better planet by saving gas...LOL


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (pturner67)*

yup.... because their fuel savings numbers assume you drove with flat tires before...

all of this is irrelevant, my car tells me the pressure...


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (orionz06)*

ok so you did your test. Did you take in consideration the air temps. Like when its -0 out side and you run over pot holes and flaws in the payvent. What about when the temperture is -0 and 2 days later its 60 Degree F. I always have to add air to my tires when its freezing cold out side each and every time it gets colder and colder.
I would rather use nitrogen to hold the presure even when it gets cold.
I would never pay pay for nitrogen in my tires but since it was free at Costco i took it any way.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (kylem)*

the tires filled with air or with nitrogen will lose pressure if it gets cold at the same rate...
and yes, you need to add air when it gets cold with either gas in the tire...


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (orionz06)*

only advantage i see w/ n2 is any vehicle w/ TPMS!! it will reduce the amount of false readings. not worth it if you have to pay for it in my opinion. i pretty much give to any one for free at my shop. w/ or w/o n2 consumer still must check psi on regular basis, rotate every 5-7k, and alignement every 15k-30k.


_Modified by teutoned at 7:40 AM 12-29-2008_


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (teutoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *teutoned* »_only advantage i see w/ n2 is any vehicle w/ TPMS!! it will reduce the amount of false readings. not worth it if you have to pay for it in my opinion. i pretty much give to any one for free at my shop. w/ or w/o n2 consumer still must check psi on regular basis, rotate every 5-7k, and alignement every 15k-30k.

_Modified by teutoned at 7:40 AM 12-29-2008_


shouldnt effect TPMS for the sensors i have seen...
and alignments should be done way more often than that... 6-8k...


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (orionz06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionz06* »_the tires filled with air or with nitrogen will lose pressure if it gets cold at the same rate...
and yes, you need to add air when it gets cold with either gas in the tire...

not with nitrogen... the psi doesnt drop when it gets cold out.


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## .je (Feb 8, 2003)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_not with nitrogen... the psi doesnt drop when it gets cold out.


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (kylem)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kylem* »_
not with nitrogen... the psi doesnt drop when it gets cold out.


yes it does... in fact, the pressure drop should be exactly the same, as they have an almost identical coefficient of thermal expansion...


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (orionz06)*

any other thoughts?


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## kylem (Sep 3, 2007)

*Re: (orionz06)*

You dont need an alignment every 6-8k miles. 
alot ppl dont even change there oil within that time.



_Modified by kylem at 7:22 PM 12-31-2008_


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## teutoned (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: (orionz06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orionz06* »_any other thoughts?

some of my customers claim they can feel the difference!!


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## orionz06 (Jun 15, 2005)

*Re: (teutoned)*

you have got to be kidding me...


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