# lpg phaeton



## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Does anybody else in the UK or Europe (cant imagine this appealing to the Americans) run there Phaeton on LPG ( propane)
I have converted my 3.2 Phaeton to duel fuel operation, with the flick of a switch i can run on either very expensive massively overtaxed petrol or nice cheap clean burning good for the environment LPG.
LPG in the uk is approx 45% of the cost of petrol, sure puts a smile on my face driving at 1980's prices
extra plumbing for the sequential gas injectors, the factory cover still goes back on to keep it all neat and tidy.








90ltr tank for the LPG mounted in the boot.








Standard practice is to mount the filler point for the LPG in the bodywork or bumper, i couldnt bring myself to go cutting wholes in the side of this beauty so i have hinged the rear license plate and mounted the filler underneath.


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## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Love the color.








That's very interesting. Can you give the cost per KM for each fuel? I understand the cost difference per liter (at least i think that's what you posted), but I'd like to know how that translates into miles. Also, any idea on HP for each fuel? For instance, the rotary engine in an RX-8 can run both gas and hydrogen, but the HP drops in half.
Any additinal info apprecaited. Thanks for sharing.


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## quailallstar (Dec 2, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*

Wow thats very nice. I have seen this in cars here in the US, but not nice cars like this. More like on GM fleet products (blahh). This would be an interesting alternative for my 1.8t. Hmmm but would this effect the turbo in a negative way?


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## jmdpjd1 (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: lpg phaeton (8secondquarters)*

I know this is slightly off topic. Are your wheels VW issue? Or what brand and style. 
I do like the idea of lpg. Also brilliant mod of the license plate for the filler.


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## JamesBondage (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: lpg phaeton (jmdpjd1)*

They are Audi RS6 wheels.


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## iluvmcr (Jan 14, 2005)

*Re: lpg phaeton (8secondquarters)*

How far does your Phaeton go on the 90 liter tank before refuel?
How do you add the lpg system?


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## jtl60047 (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: lpg phaeton (8secondquarters)*

Hey all - I'm a Passat owner and Phaeton lurker.....
lpg- very cool.
I read that Honda has an experimental program in California using Natural Gas. For about $800 USD the will set up an at home fill station that is hooked into the house natural gas supply.
Could be an interesting item......
Just a thought.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lpg phaeton (8secondquarters)*

Hi Steve:
Again, thanks for a great post - most interesting, and I am sure a world 'first'.
LPG fuel is popular in Canada because the government does not tax it as heavily as petroleum spirits. I think this is really the nub of the issue worldwide - when compared to conventional gasoline on a calorific value basis (BTU to BTU), I think LPG is about the same price as gasoline, *pre-tax*. So, the first question in the decision making process becomes "how does my government tax this stuff?" If they don't put road taxes on it - as is the case in Canada - then it becomes very attractive. There is, I think, a slight degradation in engine power output when running on LPG, but all of the Phaeton engines are more than large enough for the vehicle - hence, the slight drop in power output should not be an issue.
I'll ask at the factory in Dresden if there are any special issues to consider when using LPG. In North America, we are only offered two engines - the V8 and W12, both benzine.
Again, thanks for the great post.
Michael


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## stock60 (Jan 16, 2002)

*Re: lpg phaeton (PanEuropean)*

so the filler is behind the license plate? isn't that a little low? i mean wouldn't cause problems with filling?


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

*Re: lpg phaeton (stock60)*

Hi all
The lack of taxation on the LPG here in the Uk was my main motivation for the conversion, I have had the car running on it now for 5 weeks/6000mls with no problems.
savings so far
[email protected] on lpg =297gallons/1350ltrs of lpg
average cost of lpg per ltr 0.39 pounds x 1350ltrs = £526.50 
[email protected] on petrol =267 gallons/1213ltrs of petrol
average cost of petrol per ltr 0.86 pounds x 1213ltrs = £1043.18
a substantial saving i am sure you will agree.
the parts for the conversion came to a total of £917.64
I drive around 70000mls a year so its not going to take long at all to recoup the investment 
I used an Italian StarGas Kit for the conversion http://www.star-gas.it/english/engfrmset.htm obviously no fuel mapping existed for the phaeton so it took a good few hours of driving around with a laptop on the passenger seat to set it up, not that it threw up any major problems.
Micheal i would be very interested to hear VW's response to the LPG question as this is a market they have neglcted in Europe( Both GM and Volvo sell Duel Fuel cars from the factory over here)
Factory Volvo LPG thats all the safety questions answered!
Steve


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## forresteldon (Oct 3, 2005)

*Re: lpg phaeton (8secondquarters)*

Hi,
Its been some time since you installed LPG in your Phaeton. How are you getting on with it? Has it given the savings that you thought it would? Have you had any particular problems? Given the cost of petrol (Gasoline to you colonials!), I guess that it will be a conversion that will gain in popularity. I am certainly considering it.
Anyone else out there who has tried it?


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: lpg phaeton (forresteldon)*

When at Bendix I invented a LIQUID propane fuel injection system for an Audi.
It used a "heat pipe" to keep the lpg from vaporizing until injected at the entrance of each cylinder at an appropriate sequential time. The injectors were modified to work with "both" Gasoline and the Propane, Spark timing was automatically changed and the supercharger pressure was Knock detected so optimum compression was achieved for gas and LPG.
The vaporization of the LPG essentially acted to provide a sort of thermodynamic supercharging by increasing the density of the incoming air charge. 
A flip switch let you change over while DRIVING under power. I drove the car from Detroit to Miami and Back as part of a demonstration for the yearly EC.
The patents were purchased, if I remember correctly, by both CAV Lucas and Bosch. I think it got buried as this was back in mid 70's & Gas prices were cheap. Emissions were great as was performance.


_Modified by GripperDon at 3:30 PM 10-23-2005_


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## fhq547 (Oct 12, 2005)

*Re: lpg phaeton (8secondquarters)*

hi there everyone. I'm new to your community and I've thoroughly loved all the input here. I am planning on buying a Phaeton soon. 
lpg, I am in the UK also. I love the rims you've got on your phaeton. What size are they? Are they VW rims? Where did you get them from?
Could you please post more photos of your car from other angles? I love the chunkiness of the rims. They complement perfectly the bold design features of the rest of the exterior. 
Thanks.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lpg phaeton (fhq547)*

Hi, and welcome to the forum! When I read your post, I noticed that you are from Birmingham, and my first thought was "Hey, that's great, we're having a Phaeton owner get-together in Birmingham this weekend, we'll invite you and you can meet all of us." Then I looked a bit closer and found that you are in the 'original' Birmingham, in England, and we're having our GTG in Birmingham _Alabama_...







... I guess that means we'll have to send you photos instead.
I was in the UK about 8 weeks ago, and visited a really first-class Phaeton dealer in Cambridge. The name of the company is 'Vindis', and they have what is probably the nicest dealership I have seen anywhere in the world - they even have a new building dedicated to Phaetons, with 4 Phaetons in stock at the time I visited, and a few in the Phaeton service bays at the back of the building.
Although most of the forum members are from North America, we have a fair number of participants from the UK here too - you'll probably get a few welcomes from them over the next week. The biggest differences you will see between North American and UK Phaetons is engine size. We can only purchase the V8 and W12 petrol engines in North America - the diesels and the 3.2 petrol are not offered here. We also have very little choice in option configuration - North American VWs come with about 80% of the European 'optional' equipment as standard fit, and as for the other 20%, we can't get those options. That's why you'll see so many odd-looking posts about retrofitting warning triangles, paddle shifters, start buttons, and other things that are commonplace in Europe.
We have a directory of information that is useful for folks who are considering purchasing a Phaeton. It is at this URL, in the first of the 4 posts there: Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents'. You'll find photos - taken by owners - of all the different exterior and interior colours, different wheels, option configurations, stuff like that.
Again, welcome to the forum. The car itself is a delight, all of us who own one are pretty happy with it. If you have any questions of any kind, don't hesitate to post them.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: lpg phaeton (fhq547)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fhq547* »_I love the rims you've got on your phaeton. What size are they? Are they VW rims? Where did you get them from?
Could you please post more photos of your car from other angles? I love the chunkiness of the rims. They complement perfectly the bold design features of the rest of the exterior. 

You can find more photos of that same car here: Aftermarket Wheels. The owner (Steve) wrote: _"....these are the 19 inch option Audi RS6 rims, although these are replicas (not that you can tell) sizes 8.5 X 19 40 mm et. Tyres are Pirrelli 255 45 19 p-zero Rosso's. They go straight on without any adapters or spacers. The VW center caps are from a Golf and available at any VW dealer."_
Hope this helps,
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*8SECONDQUARTERS*
How is the LPG system doing?


_Modified by GripperDon at 3:33 PM 10-23-2005_


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## 98741 (Oct 14, 2006)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

I'm sorry for bringing up such an old thread.
Any updates on how this is working?
I have a factory made Honda Civic GX that runs on compressed natural gas, and I have a compressor at my home for fueling (Phill). If you were able to convert your Phaeton over to LPG without triggering a million fault codes, it's quite possible to convert it to natural gas, too...


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## Jack Orr (Mar 15, 2000)

*Re: lpg phaeton (jtl60047)*

Er, ah the fill station hooks to home gas supply? Does the home travel well on vacation?


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## dhatwood (Nov 26, 2007)

*lpg*

has anyone found out any new info on the lpg conversion or any other conversion that can be adapted to this o'so great vehicle? because as we've all seen gas is going through the roof and our beloved cars run best on only the best premium. what is the cost of lpg here and how would i fill if my house doesn't use lpg? and what is the cost of conversion here in the states and more importantly can it be done here without any hiches from the government (dmv)? any way hope to here feed back on this because this could a great asset to us all.


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## Solipsism12 (Feb 18, 2008)

LPG does provide less power than gasoline. It is also cleaner to burn. In the US, there are specific legal issues re. using fuels that do not have a road tax built into the cost in any private vehicle (e.g. you can get your a## busted and the general aviation airport in very hot water if you are caught putting av gas in your car cause you want higher octane, like some of us tried to get away with back in the early '70's when we were having issues with our high-compression euro cars). The last thing I saw about home filling stations connecting to a piped-in gas line for LPG-like systems were ideas using multi-stage compressors. Other than that, I think you'd need an LPG tank - not hard to come by in itself, but you'd still have the highway tax issue to deal with. I also am not sure that we, here in the US, even with gas prices climbing as they have been recently, would find it cost effective to use LPG or liquified or compressed natural gas as a replacement for gasoline - our gas is still cheap compared to what folks in the UK and EU are paying. Again, it would be cleaner though.


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## unpimpedride (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: (Solipsism12)*

There is a mess of information regarding LPG conversions. I am getting ready to do an LPG conversion on my 2000 VW Jetta 2.0l. The key with fuel price is government tax credits. If you keep receipts and voluntarily pay the road tax on your LPG (about 18 cents/gallon in the US) you are eligible to claim 50 cents per gallon in credits from the Federal Govn't. So in all you're looking at a 32 cent per gallon savings. So I've done the math very closely and determined solid savings with petroleum costing $3.50 a gallon and rising. I live in Chicago and lpg is available everywhere. Within 5 miles of my home in the suburbs I've found it for 1.99 a gallon. LPG contains about 83,500 btu/gal where as Petroleum is at around 115,500 btu/gal. Simply stated: 1.38 gal of LPG = 1 gallon petroleum. All LPG inefficiencies aside, it is still saving a great deal on petroleum. LPG is readily avaliable, as RV's have massive tanks that they refill at any campground all rural gas stations have LPG fills as well. In the suburbs where I live, gas companies have locations to fill up (AmeriGas, Nicor etc. etc.). I will be installing a bi-fuel LPG setup very similar to that phaeton. I have priced everything out at around 1800 dollars. I will be starting this project very soon, so any questions please send me some mail. 
I have researched this and CNG very well. I wanted to go with CNG originally because of the simple transition to H2/CNG combo with the high pressure tanks, but the setups are simply too expensive. Plus the in home "PHILL" for CNG is about 4500 dollars and fills at .5 Gal cng per hour. We only have ONE fast fill station in Chicago near O'hare airport and they charge 2.39 a gallon (GGE). Salt lake city and LA have abundant CNG fillups. So it really is a local option in certain cities. Running a bi-fuel CNG setup is possible for driving all over the US, but a dedicated CNG car would be tough to manage fillups on a road trip. 
Any way to create separation with OPEC is a great option. Ask me questions about either alternative fuel and I'd be happy to discuss. I am trying to get VW vortex to cover my conversion in a project section or something, but i'm sure my little LPG conversion project wont fly with them. We'll see.


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## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: (unpimpedride)*

Just thought I would mention but Steve's Phaeton was written off, not sure if he recouped his investment in time.
Don't know if it was caused by the LPG system








Dave


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## unpimpedride (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: (FootSore)*

I'm in contact with a very reputable company out of Canada who has provided these conversions to many stateside conversion companies doing fleet vehicles etc. I have confidence that the LPG system will be very solid. It is going to take a decent amount of time to make sure the install goes just right. I would like to know details on why he scrapped the project though.


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## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

*Re: (unpimpedride)*

Not the LPG Project -the whole car was written off by the insurance company.
Probably a problem with repairing an over expensive cupholder. Or the back of the car being driven over by a truck.
Dave


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## [email protected] (Feb 27, 2020)

*Phaeton 3.2 v6 on lpg*

Prins lpg did it for me in holland 
grtz 
Danny


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

8secondquarters said:


> Does anybody else in the UK or Europe (cant imagine this appealing to the Americans) run there Phaeton on LPG ( propane)
> I have converted my 3.2 Phaeton to duel fuel operation, with the flick of a switch i can run on either very expensive massively overtaxed petrol or nice cheap clean burning good for the environment LPG.
> LPG in the uk is approx 45% of the cost of petrol, sure puts a smile on my face driving at 1980's prices
> extra plumbing for the sequential gas injectors, the factory cover still goes back on to keep it all neat and tidy.
> ...


An absolute beautiful color. 

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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Cool. Well done. 
Can you give a rough cost of the conversion ?


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## BazyG (Aug 15, 2018)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Cool. Well done.
> Can you give a rough cost of the conversion ?


In EU , Czech is abouth 1100-2000EU , it depends on the manufacturer, number of cylinders , configuration and size of the tank . I have two car on LPG , Dodge Grand Caravan and Cadillac STS Seville , I didn't buy Phaeton to save money :laugh:

3,2 V6 from STAG is 1600EU , from ZAVOLI 1800EU , from BRC 1200EU +/- ..and W12 is *2 :laugh:


That do in poland https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Gbg6kMdKsc


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## kgdavis (Sep 10, 2018)

8secondquarters said:


> Does anybody else in the UK or Europe (cant imagine this appealing to the Americans) run there Phaeton on LPG ( propane)
> I have converted my 3.2 Phaeton to duel fuel operation, with the flick of a switch i can run on either very expensive massively overtaxed petrol or nice cheap clean burning good for the environment LPG.
> LPG in the uk is approx 45% of the cost of petrol, sure puts a smile on my face driving at 1980's prices
> extra plumbing for the sequential gas injectors, the factory cover still goes back on to keep it all neat and tidy.
> ...


Hello,
I need your support to install the LPG in my 3.6V6 Petrol Phaeton. Can you connect with me on whatsapp +91 9902777799.


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## gwiken65 (Jul 8, 2016)

I absolutely love that color. 
The gas thing is cool too.
Wiken

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