# need help with jet size 2l 16v



## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

Hi, i am building a stock bottom end 2l 6v with a stock head, TT 276 cams, springs and retainer and a locked distributor ignition system at about 30 of advance, this is what i have in mind , what you guys think ?

twin 45G DCOE
36 chokes
145 mains
165 airs
55F6 idles
F16 emulsion
45 pumps


not sure if i should try 50 pump and 55f8 idles or smaller air like 155 or even 150 main .. any tought ? thanks


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## antichristonwheels (Jun 14, 2001)

That's a pretty much vanilla from the factory jetting.

It should start and run. You will need to see how it runs but I would say you want to go up a little on idle and main jets

F9 60 would probably be a good start

Other guys on here probably know better.

I don't think your ignition with no advance is a good idea. It probably won't start at 30 degrees advance. It will knock.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sounds like someone used to be into aircooleds. Locked ignition timing is the WORST thing you could possibly do.


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

antichristonwheels said:


> That's a pretty much vanilla from the factory jetting.
> 
> It should start and run. You will need to see how it runs but I would say you want to go up a little on idle and main jets
> 
> ...


it do start not that bad (even if i needed to tap the gaz pedal 2 time and hold it to start ) and runs good at that advance, my previous setup was running perfect with a 1000rpm idle , i was running supreme gaz with a little bit of octane booster.

this is the locked distributor setup









in this one i had 55f8 idle 150 main , but i felt that the transition from idle to main and the cruising speed was really lean, any clue why ? For the next setup i plan to buy 45G weber with more progression holes wich is better for a 16v engine im hoping this will help me resolve that problem.


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

B4S said:


> Sounds like someone used to be into aircooleds. Locked ignition timing is the WORST thing you could possibly do.


why that ? intending that my car isnt a daily its mostly used at WOT , maybe its harder to start but otherwize why its that bad ? i did run a 16v like that without issues


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

You know what, go for it. None of my business I guess. Not my car, not my setup.

:beer:


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

why so mad ? im asking you why its that bad, i just tell you that i did it and it worked but maybe i could learn things from you ..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I didn't mean to come off as mad, I was more angry with myself. I had typed a bitchy post, and as I was finishing up, I realized I was being a jerk and deleted it.

If it's a race car, locked timing is fine. A street car that's driven semi-regularily would benefit from having adjustable timing, for longevity and driveability.

Again, sorry, didn't mean to come off as I did .


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

i would say that as far as the jets, a 145 is likely too lean. the idle jet # ( 55 ) is probably ok, but the air bleed ( f6 ), is richest that you can have.. i would probably go with a 150 main and an 55f9 to start. this is based on dcoes that have 3 progression holes, not 4.
like B4S said, and i mentioned in a previous reply to one of your questions, i would change your setup so that you can run about 12 of initial advance, with about 30 overall at 3000.
remember that when you first get this running, you dont need to fiddle with the main or air corrector jets right away. even the idle jet you can leave to see how it runs at first. 
fire it up, get it to idle, balance the carbs and check for air leaks around the intake with starter fluid. ( i forgot. before all of this, turn your mixture screws out 21/2 turns to start. this is for the spanish made webers ). then, find your lean best idle by adjusting your mixture screws. you turn in the first screw a 1/4 turn at a time until the rpms falloff. then back it out about a 1/4 turn and do the next one until they are all done. rebalance your carbs and get the idle where you want it. if you are under 13/4 or over 31/4 turns on the mixture screws, then you should get the next size idle jet- either leaner or richer. do not change the air bleed at this point but change the #, like from a 55 to a 60, but with the same air bleed. then, once that is done, work on the air bleed portion of the idle circuit by seeing how well it acellerates. during this part do not jam the gas pedal down but accelerate smoothly from idle to about 3000. if you jam the pedal, your accelerator pumpjets will richen the mixture and you wont be able to accurately tell how the progression of the air bleed truly is. if it stumbles or hesitates you need a richer air bleed. remember, dont at this point change the # ( fuel component ) of the idle jet, just the air bleed.
after all this, you can then go to the main jet, basically after about 3000 and work on that. then the air corrector. last, i would work on the accelerator pump jets. when driving along at about 1500, jam the pedal down and accelerate. if there was a flat spot you are lean and if it bogs down and slowly accelerates, you are rich. chang your accelerator jets accordingly.
i would also leave your bypass idle screws turned in all the way to start with before all of this.
if you follow the above and in the sequence above, you should get that running just fine


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

candm said:


> i would say that as far as the jets, a 145 is likely too lean. the idle jet # ( 55 ) is probably ok, but the air bleed ( f6 ), is richest that you can have.. i would probably go with a 150 main and an 55f9 to start. this is based on dcoes that have 3 progression holes, not 4.
> like B4S said, and i mentioned in a previous reply to one of your questions, i would change your setup so that you can run about 12 of initial advance, with about 30 overall at 3000.
> remember that when you first get this running, you dont need to fiddle with the main or air corrector jets right away. even the idle jet you can leave to see how it runs at first.
> fire it up, get it to idle, balance the carbs and check for air leaks around the intake with starter fluid. ( i forgot. before all of this, turn your mixture screws out 21/2 turns to start. this is for the spanish made webers ). then, find your lean best idle by adjusting your mixture screws. you turn in the first screw a 1/4 turn at a time until the rpms falloff. then back it out about a 1/4 turn and do the next one until they are all done. rebalance your carbs and get the idle where you want it. if you are under 13/4 or over 31/4 turns on the mixture screws, then you should get the next size idle jet- either leaner or richer. do not change the air bleed at this point but change the #, like from a 55 to a 60, but with the same air bleed. then, once that is done, work on the air bleed portion of the idle circuit by seeing how well it acellerates. during this part do not jam the gas pedal down but accelerate smoothly from idle to about 3000. if you jam the pedal, your accelerator pumpjets will richen the mixture and you wont be able to accurately tell how the progression of the air bleed truly is. if it stumbles or hesitates you need a richer air bleed. remember, dont at this point change the # ( fuel component ) of the idle jet, just the air bleed.
> ...


I will have the 45G weber with 4 progression holes does it change something ?? 150 main, 55f9 and 50 pump is what i was running in my previous setup(with 3 progression holes) , i think id go with the f6 since my transition and cruising speed was lean(already tried the f8) i think it should do the trick, to B4S no problem dude !

thanks guys


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

an f12 is richer than an f9. i would go the next 1 up- not jump up 2 sizes richer.im not sure on the progression holes, whether richer or leaner. im thinking that with 4 its going to be richer but again im not sure. www.dellorto.co.uk carries the 4g models and could tell you


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

candm said:


> an f12 is richer than an f9. i would go the next 1 up- not jump up 2 sizes richer.im not sure on the progression holes, whether richer or leaner. im thinking that with 4 its going to be richer but again im not sure. www.dellorto.co.uk carries the 4g models and could tell you


not sure about that, i wrote to the guy at dellorto thats him who told me to go with the 4progression holes instead that it would have a better transition and that its better for the 16v engine, he also told me that f6 is richer than f8


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

hantonyc said:


> not sure about that, i wrote to the guy at dellorto thats him who told me to go with the 4progression holes instead that it would have a better transition and that its better for the 16v engine, he also told me that f6 is richer than f8


if they told you that it would have a better transition,then, i would say that having 4 progression holes instead of 3 is richer. but, there is no way you need another carb to make this run right. also, an f6 is richer than an f8. MUCH RICHER. there isnt a richer weber idle jet air bleed than a f6. you really should get a weber book so you arent guessing and get your ignition figured out first. you need it to be able start with about 12 and end up with about 30, to be running somewhat right. i remember trying to help you awhile ago with some of this info, so i hope you listen this time. i dont know everything about webers, but i know quite a bit based on different 16v engines, running diifferent cams and compression, and many different combinations of chokes, emulsion tubes, etc. anyway, good luck


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

candm said:


> if they told you that it would have a better transition,then, i would say that having 4 progression holes instead of 3 is richer. but, there is no way you need another carb to make this run right. also, an f6 is richer than an f8. MUCH RICHER. there isnt a richer weber idle jet air bleed than a f6. you really should get a weber book so you arent guessing and get your ignition figured out first. you need it to be able start with about 12 and end up with about 30, to be running somewhat right. i remember trying to help you awhile ago with some of this info, so i hope you listen this time. i dont know everything about webers, but i know quite a bit based on different 16v engines, running diifferent cams and compression, and many different combinations of chokes, emulsion tubes, etc. anyway, good luck


well i do listen, because with the help of vortex and some folks here my last setup minus some little details ran pretty good even with my locked distributor, the only thing is i wanted some more opinions, its also the dellorto guy who told me that a 55f6 would be a good start for my setup, id still buy 55f8 and 55f9 jets just in case, my car is moslty a race car so i dont wanna spend $$ on MSD controlers and ingnition box when i use my car 80% at wot, cant wait to try the 4 progression holes VS the 3 holes to see the difference.


i think id start with
36chokes
150 mains
165 airs
55F8 idles
F16 emulsion
50 pump

should be a good start


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

the progression holes at the top of the carb are for just that. progression- the transition when accelerating from idle to just off idle. when you accelerate and the butterflies open, there would be a flat spot in the transition from idle without having the progression holes which are exposed when the butterflies open. since you say that you are running basically a race car at wide open throttle, there will be no difference between 3 or 4 progression holes. thats only for your idle to just off idle


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ignition plays a large role in the way transition feels as well. A car that runs a constant 30* is going to be very jumpy when going from idle to part throttle.

It's important to understand that everything has to work together, for it all to work well. Locked timing is ok for the track, but if you're concerned about something like idle-to-part throttle transition, then it's more than just a track car and needs a proper ignition setup, IMO.


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

I do drive the car to go to the events, thats why im somewhat concern by that otherwize it dosent see street, ill start it locked with the jet size i wrote , maybe after ill switch to msd if I do more street or longer distance for the events.


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