# whats the best 8v head from the factory?



## EURO-PN (Oct 17, 2001)

as the topic states.the best performance wise.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (EURO-PN)*

For solid lifters it is the 84' GTI head with the port above the intakes for the air shrouding around the injectors. Good ones are hard to find. For hydraulic heads they're all the same, and only have three cam bearings vs. five for the solid lifter heads.
Another possibility could be the G60 head since it is much tougher heat treated alloy compared to any non G60 head but I don't know what other differences there are.
James.


[Modified by A1Rocco, 12:28 AM 10-19-2001]


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (A1Rocco)*

quote:[HR][/HR]For hydraulic heads they're all the same, and only have three cam bearings vs. five for the solid lifter heads.
Another possibility could be the G60 head since it is much tougher heat treated alloy compared to any non G60 head but I don't know what other differences there are.[HR][/HR]​They have four cam bearings, they are not all the same, You have large intake valve(AA suffix) or small intake; digi vs. CIS(E). The rado head is similar to the digi AA head with heat treating and sodium filled exhaust valves. Oh the best head from the factory is the Group N head.


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## EURO-PN (Oct 17, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (vwpat)*

which vws got the group n head?will this head fit on a 16v block?


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (EURO-PN)*

Sorry, four, I was thinking after I posted that that I was wrong, thnx for the correction. 
Pat what are the two different intake valve sizes, I've never had a hydro head, I thought they all had 40mm intake, 33 exhuast. Oh I have heard of Mexican heads with 38mm intakes, is that what you mean?
"Which VW's got the group N heads?" Why, the race ones ofcourse. Good luck finding one of those.
What's the concensis on the Eurospec head? I heard someone mention them a while back. Are they still available or did they dissappear?
James.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (A1Rocco)*

Heads were made in Mexico, Germany, Brazil, etc. I have seen Mex. heads with 38 or 40 intakes. I cannot recall German heads with 38s so MAYBE they all got 40s. Supposedly the german heads have better workmanship, which I do not doubt. You can identify the 40s by the AA suffix on the casting/part number. All US solid follower heads had 40mm intakes. US gas A2s 85+ got hyraulic followers, diesels and cabbys got them later. Only rocco, cabby, GTI/GLIs got the 40s 85-87, 88+ had them, Foxes had 38s and supposedly the 88-89 cabby got 38s. I like the Eurospec head, they are still available. They are only available in solid, which I do not mind. Group N heads are not easy to obtain but there are a few floating around.


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (vwpat)*

Pat, does the Eurospec head use VW lifters or do they have something proprietary?
James.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (A1Rocco)*

I believe the "stock" one uses VW but larger ones (such as Alfa units) are available for high lift cams.


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## G60Jetta2dr (Feb 11, 2000)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (A1Rocco)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Pat, does the Eurospec head use VW lifters or do they have something proprietary?
James.[HR][/HR]​Stock Vw dude. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JeffB (Nov 28, 1999)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (vwpat)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I cannot recall German heads with 38s so MAYBE they all got 40s.[HR][/HR]​Nope, you have the same problem here, gotta hunt for what you want.
quote:[HR][/HR] You can identify the 40s by the AA suffix on the casting/part number.[HR][/HR]​Just a note of caution:
The AA suffix can fool you. Yes, there are some 40mm valve heads which carry the AA suffix, but it is not always true if you don't check the entire part#. There is a diesel head with an AA suffix that has 38mm intakes. There are many heads with part numbers that do not have the AA suffix but have 40mm intakes.
You need to check the whole part number or measure the valves to be sure. Don't assume that the head you found does or does not fit your needs by the suffex alone.
jeff


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## A1Rocco (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (G60Jetta2dr)*

So if the VW solid lifters are NLA, where does Europspec get them? I think I asked this question before but I'll try again, where do you guys get good solid lifters when you're doing rebuilds?
James.


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## Spinyfrog (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (EURO-PN)*

So if what happens if you have one of the mexican heads with 38mm intake valves, can you swap them out for 40mm valves by grinding out the seats or do the valve seats actually need to be changed?? (apparenlty its like a $250 job by a machinist)


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## Lomax2ooo (Aug 12, 2003)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (A1Rocco)*

All hydro heads have the same exhaust valves.
There are two differen't sizes of intakes.
On GLI and GTI heads they have 40mm Intakes and all the rest are 38mm.
It is really not that big of a difference. Usually the 40mm is high comp. engines and the 38mm are the low comp. engines.


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## Spinyfrog (Jan 29, 2003)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Lomax2ooo)*

yeah, but Do i have to change the Valve seats to install 40mm intake valves in the JN hydro head? originally came with 38mm.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (A1Rocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A1Rocco* »_So if the VW solid lifters are NLA, where does Europspec get them? James.

Are VW solid lifters NLA? I was sure I'd seen them somewhere. Anyway, on alot of Eurospec's heads they use shim under bucket style lifters, these would be aftermarket, made by someone like  Arrow Precision  in the U.K. they can be ordered in any diameter and to match any valve stem length. A friend of mine hollows out VW hydrualic lifters on a lathe and uses them along with lash caps and overlength valves in his racing heads


_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 6:40 AM 9-13-2003_


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Spinyfrog)*

The intake seats must be changed in order to install 40mm valves [if you have 38's]. IMHO don't waste your money on new seats. Find a head [you can get one for under $50.00].


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Butcher)*

Best 8V head you ask?Why that would be the crossflow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_Best 8V head you ask?Why that would be the crossflow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I just wish the crossflow had solid lifters so that ther would be a broader selection of cams available for it.


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (ABA Scirocco)*

I hear ya, although the last time I looked, the selection wasn't bad. From the practically useless 260 to the TT266, TT 268, Crane has a bunchin the 270 range, Nuespeed does a 276 and finally the TT 288. Not bad. Although an 8v without that solid lifter clatter just isn't right


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Andrew Stauffer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Andrew Stauffer* »_I hear ya, although the last time I looked, the selection wasn't bad. 


Yeah, but the selection of solid lifter cams by comparison is huge, there are literally hundreds to choose from. If you want something a bit more radical them the norm, you pretty much need to go solid.


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## Try'nBanME (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (ABA Scirocco)*

You also have to make room for that big cam by grinding some metal from the head .from what I read.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Try'nBanME)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Try'nBanME* »_ You also have to make room for that big cam by grinding some metal from the head .from what I read.

You're right, I don't know about the hydro heads but on a solid lifter head, anything significantly larger than a G-grind requires the lifter bores to be clearanced.


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## Try'nBanME (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (ABA Scirocco)*

That's more money for the machine shop. 
Could you imagine the rage of people that order a nice big cam finding out that they have to shave some metal off to put it in... 

Do you have a Solid head? How much did it cost you to grind, or is it an easy "At home" thing?


_Modified by Try'nBanME at 5:36 AM 9-18-2003_


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## MYTHOS (Dec 4, 2001)

I had to bore out my hydro head to fit a Crane 272.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Try'nBanME)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Try'nBanME* »_ That's more money for the machine shop. 

It been said before but speed costs money. So, how fast do you want to go?

_Quote, originally posted by *Try'nBanME* »_ Do you have a Solid head? How much did it cost you to grind, or is it an easy "At home" thing?


I've got a solid lifter head. I clearanced the bores myself. It's a pretty easy at home thing but the head needs to be off the car and the valve train completely disassembed after that it's just a few minutes per bore with a dremel or die grinder.


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## MikeBlaze (Aug 9, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (ABA Scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABA Scirocco* »_. If you want something a bit more radical them the norm, you pretty much need to go solid.

Would the Crane cams made for the smaller hydro engines work in the crossflow head? They have something a bit more radical if it'll fit; 252* @.050 with .480 lift.


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## stock77 (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (MikeBlaze)*

Interesting thread going here. I am trying to remember all of the things I had responses for...
My Eurospec head came with what appeared to be stock 35mm VW solid lifters. I now have 37mm (Arrow precision Engineering) shim under style lifters, which have been great so far. Although customs and shipping from England was not real quick. There are some other companies that make lifters and could probably make VW lifters, like Shubeck. 
A Cross-flow head could be converted over to solid lifters as with 16V heads. 
Cam choices are more with a solid lifter head, but there are more hydro cams out there than at first glance. People have already broguht up Crane and some other companies not normally associated with VW's. I know of one guy that makes relatively custom Hydro cams with a good bit of lift.


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## E&N (May 16, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (stock77)*

Here are the specs on my 1.7 'EN' head...........
1. Manley 40mm intake/ 33mm exhaust valves
2. Alfa Romeo shim-under solid lifters
3. Lifter buckets clearenced for high lift cam
4. Port and Polished
5. Double valve springs
6. BIG cam
7. Decked
8. 3 angle valve grind 
They (my VW friends) told me the 'EN' was no good so I got this Bought this 1.7 head. It should have around the same power as a RD, while also having higher RPM range. 
I would not have built it, because it cost more than a JH/RD for the machine work and all. But I got it NEW with cam and all for $100 from the one that did, so I thought I'd put it together for the novelty.
I may, also for the novelty, hook up my SDS, and T3. The goal: The most powerfull 1.7 in NA. As a novelty of course.
E&N


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## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E&N* »_I may, also for the novelty, hook up my SDS, and T3. The goal: The most powerfull 1.7 in NA. As a novelty of course.
E&N

If you want the most powerful 1.7 you'll have to break AT LEAST 235 HP. That was measured at the crank back in 1983 (just before the 1.8 started being built). 
I think it'd be COOL to build one with more, but it'll take some $$.


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## aventari (Jul 25, 2000)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (VolksRacer2)*

The mexican head ARE crappier casting in my experience. I've ported like 3 German solid heads and the ports are always smooth and fairly decent form the factory.
I got a mexican digi 38/33 hydraulic head for free. I ported it out to put on my 83 GTI and it had horrible casting flash IN THE PORTS. The was a lot on the short side radius and around the bowl where the valve guide is. I couldn't believe this shoddy workmanship was from VW. 
It cleaned it up pretty nice and now the JH will wind up to 6000+ rpm easily and still make power. That's impressive considering the only mods are dual downpipe and port and polish job AND smaller intake valves..


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## E&N (May 16, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (VolksRacer2)*

I think I can beat 235 chp. 
Doing 235 chp with an 'EN' in 83' is very impressive! I'm going for the 'current' most powerfull 1.7 'EN' ,... not the all-time most powerfull 'EN',.......But anyways,.... I'm sure I can do it with my SDS Em4-4F and T3 turbo. It shouldn't cost too much since I already have the stuff. I'll post up my results once it's all built.
E&N


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## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*

I'll be very interested to see how you do. I've been kinda knocking around the idea of building the EN I have in the back yard, but I can still get 1.8 motors for next to nothing. Maybe I'll try putting the turbo on the EN and running it in my 'Rocco next year. At least that way I eouldn't be too bummed out if the engine melted down for some reason.


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## E&N (May 16, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (VolksRacer2)*

<<<<At least that way I eouldn't be too bummed out if the engine melted down for some reason.>>>>

Well, that's why I'm using it! Till I get the hang of my SDS! I'm going to use an ABA as my final motor. I just thought I'd build this since I got that 1.7 'EN' head that's built to the teeth.
It's not economical for you to build a turbo 'EN' while 'JH' motors are so cheap though. I would never have built my 'EN' as opposed to a 'JH' It costs $200- $300 just to get the 1.7 head up to the stock 'big valve' head specs.

I bought my 1.7 head for $100, completely done. Just the valves, or machine work cost more than that! So that's why I'm doing it.
I'm going to install a complete motor gasket kit, rings, oil pump, and new (stock) head bolts. I'll leave the main, and rod bearings if they are in spec. I think they'll be good as it's only 72k.

E&N


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## aventari (Jul 25, 2000)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*

^^ I know people are going to hate me for saying this, but you don't need new head bolts IME.
Nowhere in the Bentley does it say to replace them every time like it does rod bolts. I've ran used head bolts for 3 head rebuilds so far (2 of them in my turbo one in a regular digi head+jh block) and never had a head gasket problem.


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## E&N (May 16, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (aventari)*

I won't hate you at all! That's a good idea, leave the head bolts the same, and replace the rod bolts instead! Good point. I forget sometimes theese 8v headbolts are not the stretch-bolts and are re-useable http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
E&N


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E&N* »_I won't hate you at all! That's a good idea, leave the head bolts the same, and replace the rod bolts instead! Good point. I forget sometimes theese 8v headbolts are not the stretch-bolts and are re-useable http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
E&N

WHAT?!?! All 8V head bolts, hydo included?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (EURO-PN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EURO-PN* »_as the topic states.the best performance wise.

Easy,
The 1.6L GTI "Huron" head
41mm intake
34mm exhaust


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (gearhead455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gearhead455* »_
Easy,
The 1.6L GTI "Huron" head
41mm intake
34mm exhaust









BOOYA, three thumbs up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (gearhead455)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gearhead455* »_
Easy,
The 1.6L GTI "Huron" head
41mm intake
34mm exhaust









That's definately in the running but the problem with those is you can't run a really radical cam with them, the valve lift at TDC needs to be less than .070" or it'll hit the piston. 


_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 1:43 PM 9-26-2003_


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (dohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dohc* »_
WHAT?!?! All 8V head bolts, hydo included?

No one can answer this? You'z were talking stock right?
You can have big valve lift with the Heron head, only you have to have custom pistons made for sure.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (dohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dohc* »_You can have big valve lift with the Heron head, only you have to have custom pistons made for sure.

Unless you can find the original 1.6L GTI pistons, you need custom pistons anyways. But even with special pistons, you're restricted to the size of cam you can put in many really big racing cams have lifts at TDC well in excess of .200" given how close the valve is to the cylinder wall, it's very doubtful you'd be able to cut valve reliefs into a piston big enough to accomodate this.


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## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*

The best head I have seen, is a STOCK g60 head, that had bigger ports and intake and was ported and polished STOCK. My friend has one, and showed it to me. it is rare. it was designed to be "Stock" and put out as much as possible. It was made by VW for racing purposes. I have not seen a head yet. "STOCK" that will outperform this thing. (In person that is) Todd


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (fast84gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast84gti* »_The best head I have seen....... I have not seen a head yet.

































_Modified by gearhead455 at 12:51 AM 9-27-2003_


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## E&N (May 16, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (fast84gti)*

Of the common cylinder heads we'll see here in the states I would choose either the ABA crossflow head, or the G-60 head.
For you dohc: Here you can see that both types of bolts are avalible. Although 8v do not originaly come with stretch bolts and 16v do. If my memory is correct. Check this link.
http://www.qualityvwparts.com/hrdwr.html
E&N


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## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*

I replace my head bolts every time, but then again, I also get 'em for $1 each.


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## VolksRacer2 (Aug 6, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E&N* »_It's not economical for you to build a turbo 'EN' while 'JH' motors are so cheap though. I would never have built my 'EN' as opposed to a 'JH' It costs $200- $300 just to get the 1.7 head up to the stock 'big valve' head specs.

Who said anything about using a 1.7 head??








I can modify one of my solid lifter 1.8 heads for about $20 and use that. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (E&N)*


_Quote, originally posted by *E&N* »_Of the common cylinder heads we'll see here in the states I would choose either the ABA crossflow head, or the G-60 head.
For you dohc: Here you can see that both types of bolts are avalible. Although 8v do not originaly come with stretch bolts and 16v do. If my memory is correct. Check this link.
http://www.qualityvwparts.com/hrdwr.html
E&N

I checked out those head bolts. It's only $22 a set for the none stretch type, but what I didn't like about them is the 6-point head, they slip pretty easily in my opinion, but I'd love to here of othe experiences with allen head 'head' bolts.


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## E&N (May 16, 2002)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (VolksRacer2)*

Good point. Modding a 'JH' head to fit the 1.7 'EN' is ALSO more economical than building a 'EN'! 
Of course your motor will be a hybrid motor, as opposed to a true 'EN'







, and as such, disqualified from my most powerfull 'EN' in NA competition








Your 'junkyard' racer caddy defiantly beats mine though! Mine is a 80' diesel I bought for $150. It's a 'real beater'
dohc: Glad you reminded me about the rod bolts! I just bought a set from those guys! Also the flywheel bolts. I think the allen head bolts are just fine. The driver lasts longer as well. I have both, use both, there both equally effective. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

E&N


_Modified by E&N at 10:20 PM 9-27-2003_


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## CorradoAbaTurbo (Aug 30, 2003)

This is easy
1)Crossflow design beats counterflow(let's not kid ourselves guys), 7mm stems
2)Eurospec head
3)Huron head, decent size valves
4)G60 head, heat treated, sodium exhaust valves


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## Bad Habit (Nov 27, 2002)

*Re: (CorradoAbaTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoAbaTurbo* »_This is easy
1)Crossflow design beats counterflow(let's not kid ourselves guys), 7mm stems
2)Eurospec head
3)Huron head, decent size valves
4)G60 head, heat treated, sodium exhaust valves

Lets not kid ourselves,the crossflow is the best handsdown.


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_
Lets not kid ourselves,the crossflow is the best handsdown.

Especially when you put in big valves and a solid lifter conversion. Which is what I want to do with my brothers rabbit. Now all I gotta do is convince him to spend the money


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## seans85vw (Aug 19, 2003)

how do i know what this head is then?
i have a head that was suppose to be from a gti, but i wanna make sure. Here are the numbers off my head:
026103373G
3 ME
Can anyone make some sense of these for me?


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## gearhead455 (Oct 30, 2001)

*Re: (seans85vw)*

IIRC that number is for the big valve hydro non x-flow.


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## username (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (gearhead455)*

what about a drake big valve head, there was one on ebay about a week ago


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## dohc (Sep 28, 2001)

*Re: (username)*


_Quote, originally posted by *username* »_what about a drake big valve head, there was one on ebay about a week ago

And you didn't buy it???








They were ment to fit on a 1.6 I believe, but made sick power.


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## GTIOU (Mar 28, 2003)

*Re: (dohc)*

I do believe this will never end.....








It's informative as hell though...... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## username (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (dohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dohc* »_
And you didn't buy it???








They were ment to fit on a 1.6 I believe, but made sick power.

i had no bones ($$$) to spare


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (Bad Habit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bad Habit* »_
Lets not kid ourselves,the crossflow is the best handsdown.

Even with the 7mm stems the cross flow doesn't flow as much as the Eurospec with 8mm at the top end of lift. I'm not sure about low lift conditions - perhaps you might post some flow bench data that you have?


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## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

Does anyone know the max lift that cam be used on the 84 JH head without clearancing the bores?


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (84_GLI_coupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84_GLI_coupe* »_Does anyone know the max lift that cam be used on the 84 JH head without clearancing the bores?









I'm not sure if it varies from one casting to another, it's somewhere around .435"-.440"


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## Vinzwagen (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (84_GLI_coupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84_GLI_coupe* »_Does anyone know the max lift that cam be used on the 84 JH head without clearancing the bores?









Just clearance the bores. It's easy to do. Dissasemble the head first. 
All you are doing is taking some metal off the edge of the bores so that the high points of a high lift cam can swing by the bores without hitting these edges. You could even use a rat-tail file for this.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (Vinzwagen)*

Here's mine clearanced.


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

ABA: How'd you clearance those lifter bores?
Just realized we were talking factory heads....so that puts a Eurospec out of the question...


_Modified by secondgen at 6:16 PM 8-27-2007_


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## Bora_Individual (May 8, 2007)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (EURO-PN)*

where can I get a new 8v head just ready to mount it on my 87 gti?


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Bora_Individual)*

This thread started 7 years ago AND WILL NOT DIE!!! Hehe.
Techtonics Tuning still sells new heads, I believe. Or check ebay for rebuilt ones. I bought one, forget the user name though, and it was very nice. Got it for about $150 too!


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (Bora_Individual)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bora_Individual* »_where can I get a new 8v head just ready to mount it on my 87 gti?


ebay.de


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## Mk1Racer (Apr 16, 1999)

*Re: (84_GLI_coupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84_GLI_coupe* »_Does anyone know the max lift that cam be used on the 84 JH head without clearancing the bores?









I had no problem at all running a Schrick 280 asym. w/o doing any clearence work. IIRC, max lift is .453


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## chois (May 12, 2000)

I replaced the head bolts once - with ARP head studs.
For stock A2 hydro stuff, as noted, the German heads on average flow better, but occasionally you run across a MEX one that flows as well.


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## kmavantir2 (Dec 21, 2008)

*Re:*

is it possible to put a 1.8 jh head on a 1.6 / 1.7 motor ? if so what mod might I have to do? will the valves clear the cylinder walls / pistons? any info is appriciated..


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## GTI itself (Jan 17, 2009)

*Re: Re: (kmavantir2)*

I'll throw this in the seven year old mix...Will a G-60 head mount direct to an 84 GTI jh....just curious...


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Re: (GTI itself)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI itself* »_I'll throw this in the seven year old mix...Will a G-60 head mount direct to an 84 GTI jh....just curious...









Yeah it sure will. IMO the G-60 head is the best non-crossflow factory head out there. Since I have roughly 40 or so non- xflow heads in the back room and have beercanned probably 100 or more in the last 5 years (all mexican or brazilian) I'm pretty sure I know what I'm talking about. Non factory heads, Drake or Eurospec then Heron then Super-V (got 2 of them). BTW drake made a big valve 1.8 head as well as a big valve 1.6 head. Alpha buckets and underfollower lash caps or overlength grind to clearance valves are the best way to go on a solid lifter head or conversion IMO.


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## vr2jetta (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Re: (Prof315)*

The best head has to be the crossflow. I mean, think about it, why would you want the exhaust manifold bolted that close to the intake manifold heating it up?! I dont know what vw was thinking there. What I want to know is combustion chamber cc's in the various heads. I am trying to put together a good platform for a turbo setup and have been looking for a couple years and have not found this information. 
Edit: One more thing, the highest lift you can go without clearancing the head on a non crossflow is .449"


_Modified by vr2jetta at 12:23 AM 6-20-2009_


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Re: (vr2jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr2jetta* »_The best head has to be the crossflow. I mean, think about it, why would you want the exhaust manifold bolted that close to the intake manifold heating it up?! I dont know what vw was thinking there. What I want to know is combustion chamber cc's in the various heads. I am trying to put together a good platform for a turbo setup and have been looking for a couple years and have not found this information. 
Edit: One more thing, the highest lift you can go without clearancing the head on a non crossflow is .449"

_Modified by vr2jetta at 12:23 AM 6-20-2009_

A stock 8v cylinder head has a 30cc combustion chamber. ANY 8v. There is a bit of variance I'm sure but I have cc'd 1.5,1.6,1.7,1.8 solid heads - 30cc. 1.8,2.0 hydro heads - 30cc.


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## vr2jetta (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Re: (Prof315)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prof315* »_
A stock 8v cylinder head has a 30cc combustion chamber. ANY 8v. There is a bit of variance I'm sure but I have cc'd 1.5,1.6,1.7,1.8 solid heads - 30cc. 1.8,2.0 hydro heads - 30cc. 

Ummmm, I doubt that this head has a 30 cc combustion chamber.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4435326


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: Re: (vr2jetta)*

I'm surprised the debate of crossflow/counterflow hasn't been cleared up yet.
My knowledge from endless discussions on the topic:

*Counterflow:*
Pros:
Higher angle of approach in the intake port, lends to a better flowing intake charge, with a less drastic short turn to the throat. The throat is taller, which is good for directing flow around the valve head.
By swapping in 7mm valves, the flow is essentially the same as the crossflow head. Once you start modifying, the counterflow has superior port design, and will ultimately outflow the crossflow with proper porting.

Cons:
The intake is above the hot exhaust manifold. This caused the intake manifold to heat soak. People have discussed the real-world implications of this, and the concensus is that unless your coming right off idle, or sitting in the pit lanes, the air flowing through the manifold has very little time to absorb the heat soak. Even-so, a heat shield and phenolic spacer can be used to make this a moot point.
The counterflow is tougher to run a turbo setup on. It's tight on space back there, and is already a PITA to unbolt the intake manifold as-is.

*Crossflow:*
Pros:
7mm valve stems from the factory. 
No crossflow heads came with the smaller valves, like some counterflows did.
Intake ports on the front are not sharing real-estate with the exhaust ports, so they'll be somewhat cooler. The intake manifold isn't sitting above the hot exhaust side.
Plenty of room for a turbocharger in the back.
Still very easy to find in junkyards.

Cons:
No solid lifters offered from the factory.
Intake port angles are quite bad, from a performance perspective. The port approaches the valve at a shallow angle, and has a very sharp short turn radius. There is virtually no throat for air to swirl around the valve. It's a poor design for naturally aspirated airflow.
Later OBD 2 heads have different intake port castings with a "ramp" or "wedge" that is more restrictive to max flow, but helps induce swirl (more for emissions purposes).

There's a reason that Techtonics prefers the counterflow heads when building a performance motor. Although nobody can get Collin to be specific, it does have to do with the counterflows superior intake port design.

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: Re: (vr2jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr2jetta* »_
Ummmm, I doubt that this head has a 30 cc combustion chamber.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4435326

That's a diesel head


_Modified by Prof315 at 7:12 PM 6-21-2009_


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## vr2jetta (Dec 16, 2007)

*Re: Re: (Prof315)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Prof315* »_
That's a deisel head

That would explain a lot.


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## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: Re: (vr2jetta)*

just out of curiosity, what would it take to put a crossflow head on a counterflow block? anything special?


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: Re: (lilgreydentwagen)*

appropriate intake manifold and anything else / fabrication to get hoses and wires to clear everything. on the fox, the 2.0 intake would make it too tall to clear the hood.


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## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: Re: (lilgreydentwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lilgreydentwagen* »_just out of curiosity, what would it take to put a crossflow head on a counterflow block? anything special?

Fox stylez?
Read => http://www.lunaticfringe.org/vwfox/ff/002.html


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Re: (snowfox)*

The best head from the factory is the little Mexican i got under the hood.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







hydro 40x33 soon to be 42x35


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## Road Boss (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_The best head from the factory is the little Mexican i got under the hood.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Best I've seen, and I've only seen two of them is the 3 bearing solid lifter brazillian head. I have pictures somewhere of the ports on one of them and they are much nicer than any other counterflow


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

Please find those.








Steve-


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Well, I thought I had some down the port photos. I'll take the manifold off if we get to it on saturday and snap some photos. I built this head for my friends mini stock. She makes some power to say the least, and with no porting.


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## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_Best I've seen, and I've only seen two of them is the 3 bearing solid lifter brazillian head. I have pictures somewhere of the ports on one of them and they are much nicer than any other counterflow

i have heard that these heads were from fork truck motors. any truth to this?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Shrttrackr)*

fork lifts, auxilary power units and various other industrial applications.


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## ibblkman (Nov 9, 2009)

*Re: whats the best 8v head from the factory? (vwpat)*

can anybody tell me what this head is? from what i know it's a 1.8 ported & polished with a G60 cam in it. i just bought it for a 2.0 motor swap i want to do. can't seem to get the pics on here so this is what is stamped on it.
93 WWO H
026103373G GERMANY
i know that its a hydro head.
any other info would be great thanks


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## MacGruber (Aug 20, 2010)

*Re: (ibblkman)*

I pulled a 93 026103737G WWO H head off of a 1984 Audi 4000S 1.8L with a JH in-line block. Head assembly $32 on sale. Sticker on the hood shows that is a hydraulic non-adjustable head.

My project is to refurbish the used head and stick it on a JH block in a 1987 Scirocco.

Can anyone explain the reason for 4 journals on it vs. the 5 journals on current 58 026103373H WWO H solid lifter head: was my 5 journal head over designed?


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## Magic__Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

I have a head that im trying to find some info on, ive search and havent found crap.

numbers are.... 026103373H with a big 39 above those numbers. and WWO next to that.
then Germany on the other side of the head and a H under it.

thanks for any help.


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## Fat Rabbit (Nov 18, 2001)

A1 Solid Lifter FR


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## Magic__Mike (Feb 23, 2011)

thank you!


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