# My 2009 Routan SEL Premium is in for its 3rd Engine Tear Down in 7 Months....



## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

My Routan was scheduled for its routine oil change last Wednesday. But when I got done with work early that morning, I left the engine idling while I unloaded a few things; and once again there was that metal on metal ticking sound that last spring resulted in an almost 2 month long repair.

That time, the oil pump failed, and damaged quite a few of the engine's internal parts. I was informed Friday that the engine had to be torn down again, and today, I was informed that the rocker arms (?) need to be replaced as well as some other parts. I am waiting for the service manager to call me with the complete details.

I called VWOA on Friday and started a case on the car; I was polite and explained my problem....and I told them I want a new car. I consider this situation to be covered by New York's Lemon Law, but I told them I would hold off following through in that direction until after I had tried to work something out with them.

I was told I would hear from a Regional Manager today....but haven't heard anything yet.

What a mess, and what a shame. I still believe the Routan is the nicest van out there at present, but I haven't fared quite so well with mine.


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

Wow. I hope they come through for you. Are you still within the Lemon Law statute of limitations? There are lemon law lawyers here who advertise on the morning news everyday. Good luck with this. Keep us posted.


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## AutoUnion32 (Oct 4, 2008)

It's a lemon man. Get a lawyer ASAP :beer:


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Update*

The dealer called me back yesterday and told me the Rocker Arms and Lifters all have to be replaced, and they believe this problem was caused by the original oil pump failure last February.

From what I have read of the NY Lemon Law, I am still within the Statue of Limitations, but I am hoping to avoid all of that completely by working this out with VWOA.

VWOA also called briefly late yesterday afternoon and told my wife they were still investigating my complaint, and that I would hear back from them today.

I will keep you posted


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

I'm surprised they even tore into the engine, I would have assumed that they would have just put in a whole new engine. That's what I'd push for if you can't get a whole new van. Ford put a whole new engine (free) in our companies windstar when it had 100k on it, all they recommened we do was to put on a new serpentine belt and new plugs. I wish you the best of luck.


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

Come on, man! We want to know what happened! Is VWoA taking the Routan back or not?


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

I received a call every day this week from VWOA saying they were still investigating my claim and I would hear back from them the next business day. As of now, I am supposed to hear from them again on Monday.

In the meantime, the new lifters and rocker arms were installed and the metallic tapping sound is still occuring, so the service department is further looking into what is creating this sound. Monday will be the van's 12th day at the dealer getting this situation repaired.

Will keep you posted.


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## Optical TDI (Dec 18, 2001)

Go through the process for a new van via lemon law. In Ohio, I believe if it's out of service more than 30 days and in for the same problem 3x in one year the lemon law can be enacted. Not sure of the hassle of it though.


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

I hope they work this out with you and just do the right thing (at the least a new engine, but I'd prefer a new van if nothing for all the aggravation). With all that top end damage and metallic fragment floating about, it makes you wonder what the main bearings and crankshaft look like now and what the impact on longevity would be.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

hey man, i think your the most patient New Yorker i have even known...

i would insist in a new ENGINE... i doubt the local grease monkey that has a hard time changing tires is going to be a competent engine builder.

and file for NY Lemon Law also!

That Metal tapping sound id bet is a spun main bearing !


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Get the Verdict Today*

I first received a phone call from the dealer yesterday. Car was fixed. They found it was not the rocker arms or lifters causing the tapping sound. The tapping sound came from the Intake Manifold. That was replaced and the tapping sound was gone. (So they say. Have not picked up the van yet)

I then later received a call from VWOA, and the regional rep asked me if an extended warranty would suffice. I said that would be ok as a last resort, but I really wanted another car after all of the issues this one has had.

She was very pleasant, and told me that my case would be moved to the next level, and I would hear back some time today what they would do.

But, in truth, in diligently reading the NY Lemon Law, it clearly states that the car has to be in for repair over a cumulative 30 days time,_ *and*_ the _problem still exists when the repair is completed._ That is not the case with this van. 

The initial problems associated with the oil pump failing were corrected last spring, even though it took them over two months to accomplish the repair. The van has traveled over 10,000 miles since that repair. And the problem this time wasn't inside the engine.

So in reality, as I see it, I don't have much of a leg to stand on legally. But as I stated earlier, I will see what they are willing to do later today.

Will keep you posted.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

well... goodluck brotha, seems to me that your going to have a fun time ahead


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

This is kind of fascinating. First they tell you it's the rocker arms and some other parts. Making a statement like that implies some sort of diagnostic work to draw such a specific conclusion. 

Today they tell you that the tapping sound is from the intake manifold. On the surface, this sounds like good news. Presumably this is considerably easier to repair and has no connection to the previous oil pump failure. 

Now, I haven't heard the sound (don't know the volume, the pitch or the frequency) and neither has anyone here other than the OP, but I would want a serious explanation of exactly how an intake manifold is making a tapping sound _that confused a dealership technician to this degree._ Good grief, this doesn't bode well for having the dealer do a thing on this engine in the future, especially when it's on your dime, after the warranty expires. 

Squeeze 'em for whatever you can get, but I think redzone98 is right (I hope he's wrong) - for one reason or another, I think you're in for a fun future either with this engine or with your dealer's service department.

-EDIT- 
I just re-read your thread title - you said that the engine was in for it's third teardown and you described one event with the oil pump in the original post. What was reason for the other teardown, or did I miss it in this thread??


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## 71sbeetle (Apr 12, 2002)

intake manifold making a tapping sound ? huh ?

:bs:


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

71sbeetle said:


> intake manifold making a tapping sound ? huh ?
> 
> :bs:


Well, that's a simpler way to express my point....


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

The engine was taken apart several times last spring as the dealership's service department struggled with the repairs to the engine. At one point they thought they had it fixed, but when I took it home after the first month's stay I noticed there was oil leaking out from the bottom of the engine, as well as the oil engine light would flash intermittently. I returned the car the very next day, which resulted in the second engine tear down and another month's stay at the dealership.

I also found it to be a long stretch that the intake manifold was the cause of the tapping. I have not picked up the car yet, so I don't know if the problem is completely corrected.

The tapping sound was a very light metal to metal sound, similar to the sound marbles make when they gently roll into each other. The velocity of the tapping sound would increase or decrease depending upon the engine's rpm.

The VWOA rep called late yesterday afternoon and informed me that the regional rep whom the case was forwarded to did not get back to them. So I am still waiting to find out what they are willing to do.


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

So, out of curiosity, what did they do when the van was in the shop for those two months? Give you a loaner? Waive the two months' loan payment (assuming you are carrying a loan)? 

Please keep us posted on how this turns out!

-EDIT-
I'm guessing that you plan to let the van come up to temp and listen really really hard before accepting the vehicle back. I hope this all works out well for you.


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

Unfortunately for us, we paid cash for this van...something I will never do again. I feel if we had a loan on this car, we could have said "here, it's yours". So we need to get this worked out and I am very apprehensive as to how VWOA is going to handle this with us. I truly feel we're on the losing end here.

But the local dealer did get us a Hertz loaner (granted it was a Toyota econobox...about as enjoyable as eating my mom's cold oatmeal:sly for the duration of the repairs; very boring, but it sufficed.

I am not sure whether I'll be able to pick up the van today or tomorrow. But you're right, I will first ask the service manager to go over the car with me, and if possible have the tech who worked on it join us; then let it warm up and take it for a nice local drive before I sign off on it.

But I have to say, the service manager and the techs I have met already have been really decent people and have always treated us well. I respect the challenges they have faced in dealing with a new, unfamiliar vehicle. In spite of the challanges this van has provided us with, I still have no complaints at all with the service department of this dealership.


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

I hope your pick up went well. Did they give you a satisfactory answer to all of your questions?


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

Picked up the car Thursday evening; let it warm up while I talked with the service manager. He reviewed with me the pages of tech notes that covered this repair, and I have to say, they did an extensive amount of work. There is some kind of motor in the intake manifold that was faulty and causing the ticking noise I heard. 

Evidently, VWOA has quality control experts that visit the dealerships to go over the more difficult repair cases, and the manager told me this fellow arrived the day they were putting the engine back together. He said this person literally spent the rest of the day at the dealership as the engine was put back together.

Earlier on the day I picked up the car, the regional rep. from VWOA had visited the dealership and reviewed my case. While talking with the service manager he told me about the meeting and said that I should expect to hear from him some time nest week.

I was with the service manager for about 20-25 minutes going over everything, and as I said earlier, during this time the car was running. Before I got into the car, I bent down close to the grille of the car and listened to the engine idle for a moment. It sounded really smooth. I then took the car out for a drive and, quite frankly, was suprised at -not to overuse the term- but... how smooth the engine ran.

My home is almost 30 minutes from the dealer, and I had to admit, as I drove home the engine felt better than it had since I purchased the vehicle.

But I am still going to go ahead with my request for a replacement. This is my wife's car, and she is still adamant that the reliability of this vehicle is suspect. And until she's satisfied, my life won't be. So I'll see what VWOA has to offer next week. Will let you know.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

Ondaora20 said:


> This is my wife's car, and she is still adamant that the reliability of this vehicle is suspect. And until she's satisfied, my life won't be.



aint that the truth in every matter 

BTW, reading your post, there is a motor in the intake manifold that causes a tapping... do you have the 4.0L because quite frankly the intake manifold on the 3.8L is a big plastic block.


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

Yes...4.0. My van is an SEL Premium. All the more reason I am not happy about this, and my wife is furious. In our opinion, it is a beautiful vehicle inside and out.


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## 09Routan (Oct 2, 2009)

I've had both the 3.8 and the 4.0 in the Routan... I prefer the 4.0 

Sorry about all the bad luck. You did the right thing contacting VWOA. All I can say it to 'stay persistent'. I do know that they will take care of you.


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

*Good News*

I heard back from VWOA's regional rep.late this afternoon. They are going to replace the van with a new one. More details next week.

Happy Thanksgiving!!


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## Sawdust (May 28, 2002)

Ondaora20 said:


> I heard back from VWOA's regional rep.late this afternoon. They are going to replace the van with a new one. More details next week.
> 
> Happy Thanksgiving!!


Fantastic news. :thumbup:


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

Nice! Christmas came early for you, dude.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

woooooooow 

Seriously Amazing !


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## Altair 4 (Jan 14, 2002)

I can't wait to hear the deatils on how the rep approached the topic.


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## OkieRoutan (Nov 5, 2010)

So.... this has made for very interesting reading. How do I contact the VWOA? I was out of town and my oil pressure light came on (the little genie lamp)... it wasn't granting any wishes. The manual says quit driving and get to mechanic ASAP or sooner. On a Sunday morning, in rural Oklahoma, the only mechanics on duty was at Wal-Mart. They had me sign a release waiver, so when it had a catastrophic failure, it wasn't their fault. It had no oil, and no apparent signs of leaks, damage or burning. 5 qts of earl, just evaporated! I had them go ahead, fill it up, service the rest, and home I went. I don't think it lost any oil on the 150 mile trip home, as this morning it was still full. However, I dropped it off with my dealership, before work. Their options are to have it found and fixed, found and give me a loaner, or replace it... today around 3:30 or 4 is when I'm going back in, and they'll need to satisfy me, or it's to the lawyer I go! I have to have a vehicle... **pity party time** I'm a disabled Vet and have medical appointments I have to get to. **pity party over** In addition I have work related trips I have to make, and this is a very busy week. So far I've been thrilled with my Routan. I had some of the brake issues, but that was fixed during a normal service day, and at their expense. I've put 37K on it, in just this first year... that may be a lot for some, and not a lot for others of you... but even at 137K, it shouldn't have 5 qts of oil evaporating into thin air!! If it caused the cylinders, pistons, and rings to screw up, that engine will never be right!


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## OkieRoutan (Nov 5, 2010)

Ondaora20 said:


> I heard back from VWOA's regional rep.late this afternoon. They are going to replace the van with a new one. More details next week.


 Do you have the 30Gb hard-drive, with the stereo? If so, how did you (if you did) get your music off of that one, and into the new one? I have a lot of music, on mine, that isn't reproduceable. Does anyone know of a method to extract the files?


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## Ondaora20 (Apr 19, 2010)

Sorry to hear about your van. We didn't lose our oil, we had an oil pump failure that resulted in the problems we experienced. Our car was down for the count for almost two months last spring; and another two weeks this fall. 

I contacted VW's Customer Care Center at the number below, and calmly and politely explained my situation with the car, and asked for a replacement vehicle. No threats, no nonsense. 

It would be best for you to wait and see what happened to the car, and how long it is out of service. The dealer has provided you with a loaner, I presume? IMO, the only thing you can do at this point is grin and bear it. Let VW take care of the van; and after you get it back -depending upon how long the vehicle is out of action, and whether it comes under any of your state's lemon laws (read them carefully)- you may be in a position to ask for a replacement vehicle. 

The fact that I had purchased 2 Audi's and 8 VW's over the last 10 years may have helped our case...I don't really know. But what I do know is that we have been treated very well by the folks at VW and our Routan is being replaced. It is a decent vehicle, and my wife loves it, so case closed. 

Good luck with yours, and be patient. 




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