# APR Stage 1 causing clutch slip? 39k miles on car!?



## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

I went APR Stage 1 a few days ago. I immediately noticed clutch slip at WOT between 2800-4000 RPM. It makes sense because that's where all the torque is. Almost feels/sounds like the tires are letting go but that isn't the case. Funny thing is, my car only has 39k very carefully driven miles. Yes, I know how to drive stick, I learned on one 15 years ago. I've tried to do as much research on clutches as possible. I've heard bad news from just about every company out there, almost makes me just want to get another OEM one. Please share with me your experience and what ever clutch you went with. I don't mind a stiffer clutch feel but chatter or loud noises would probably drive me nuts. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

EDIT: Someone also mentioned the possibility of fuel cut. But, wouldn't that feel much harsher? When my problem happens the RPMs climb briefly and then "grab" again.


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## simple_man (Jun 18, 2006)

Get vaggcom. Manual or DSG?
If manual, bled the system for a start. Check to make sure it does not hold pressure applied all the time (seen that before). Check boost pressure during slip, check with APR if it's with in ball park figure.
From there, it's going to 'specialist' to check. APR tune of stock hardware is not that much of the increase. My 100K+ clutch took APR tune with no issues (AUDI).

If DSG, do clutch adaptation via vagcom channel. See if it will help. Then it goes from specialist from there onwards.

Good luck.:thumbup:


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Man oh man. I had a feeling this tune would open up a can of worms. I'm manual, no VAG-COM unfortunately. There is an excellent specialist about an hour from me that did the tune. I might just take it to them to get a diagnosis. It's still hard to believe that Stage 1 would cause this at such low miles. I guess I could always try the 91 octane program or stock to see if it still happens. This is far out there, but is there ANY possible chance they could have accidentally installed a Stage II program? This has occupied my head for the better part of the week lol. I was really looking forward to enjoying the tune for more than 30 minutes without a problem.


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## sfdxsm (Feb 18, 2012)

For what it's worth, when I got my stage 1 tune, it took a few weeks for the tune to straighten out which is common. When I would dump the gas in that same power band at lower gears I got the same sensation. What was really happening was just the ECU relearning everything. It cleared out eventually.

Are you certain it's clutch slip? You would see your tachometer essentially blast up in RPMs when you hit the gas then come back down if the clutch is fairly bad (while your speed isn't increasing with it as fast or at all).


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

sfdxsm said:


> For what it's worth, when I got my stage 1 tune, it took a few weeks for the tune to straighten out which is common. When I would dump the gas in that same power band at lower gears I got the same sensation. What was really happening was just the ECU relearning everything. It cleared out eventually.
> 
> Are you certain it's clutch slip? You would see your tachometer essentially blast up in RPMs when you hit the gas then come back down if the clutch is fairly bad (while your speed isn't increasing with it as fast or at all).


Could you give me more details about the situation you had? I thought the ECU didn't need to learn anything and it was good to go right after the flash? I'm pretty sure it's clutch slip. But, I have nothing to compare it to since this has never happened to me. I've pretty much had zero issues with the car for 5 years. Like I said gears 4,5,6 WOT around 3000 rpm and this happens. Not always, but it's there.


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

in for details


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Did a few highway pulls tonight after about 30 minutes of driving, zero "slip" and now noticing better MPG too. Hopefully it lasts lol.


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

derekjl said:


> Did a few highway pulls tonight after about 30 minutes of driving, zero "slip" and now noticing better MPG too. Hopefully it lasts lol.


What was the fix ? Lol


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

The car sat for a couple days but other than that I did nothing. Like someone else mentioned maybe the ECU just needs to learn everything. I'll report back if there are any more slips. Something tells me I might have been overboosting or something.


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## sfdxsm (Feb 18, 2012)

When I was flashed (at Redline Speedworx here in NJ, reputable and well known shop), they mentioned the car may boost weird or feel odd when pulling for a few days. The ECU needs to adjust (I don't know the technical workings of what but my guess is it's just figuring out the new boost/fuel/air mappings that were programmed in against how the car is being driven) to the new mapping.

For about a week I would get into 2nd and 3rd gear and do pulls on a ramp where the car would pull, then the boost gauge would cut off as if there was a boost leak, then come back to life. Sometimes the car would even hesitate a bit.

I ran a few logs with Vag-com and spoke briefly with APR and they didn't see any issues with my mappings and also said the car is likely still learning the new mapping. Give or take 3 weeks later my car was running awesome. A side problem though was that my ECU Relay fried (apparently common with benched flashes) which sometimes would make the ECU go wacky. Problem was fixed and car has been fine ever since.

With that all said, you wouldn't be the first person I've seen complain about a bad clutch just on stage 1 but it's likely due to a) driving style b) previous wear. Not to say you're driving wrong, maybe your just a little heavier on clutch work than others. If it's driving now I would chalk it up to ECU relearning the map. If you have problems again, might be the clutch. You can always run some diagnosis if you have a ross-tech cable or know someone who does to see if anything else is going on. It sounds like your highway pulls cleared everything out though. The reflash just gives it new parameters to work with - it still needs to learn your driving style, incoming fuel, air, temp, etc.


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

Driving style or defective clutch period! TSIs are known to have their weak clutch go on stage 1...I don't know anyone with an FSI under 110k miles stage 1 or 2 have one slip or wear out. Definitely not "normal" and hopefully its not the clutch slipping.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

02GTI-VR6-same1 said:


> I don't know anyone with an FSI under 110k miles stage 1 or 2 have one slip or wear out. Definitely not "normal" and hopefully its not the clutch slipping.


Well then I will be the first. It started slipping again tonight. It doesn't happen all the time. Obviously VW won't cover this as I'm well out of warranty and chipped, plus it's a wear and tear part. I guess I'll have to set aside the $1500+ for an aftermarket clutch. Oh well, pay to play isn't it? I thought my mileage was going up but now it seems like it's going down. I used to be able to manage 30+mpg around town but now I'm lucky if I squeeze 27. The slightest urge to blast on the throttle and it goes down very quickly. If I was really aggressive it would probably be something like 22-23mpg. Maybe this tune wasn't worth it after all.


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## sfdxsm (Feb 18, 2012)

Sounds weird - where did you get tuned at? My mileage was not impacted at all; only when I drive aggressively.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

sfdxsm said:


> Sounds weird - where did you get tuned at? My mileage was not impacted at all; only when I drive aggressively.


I got it tuned at one of the first APR dealers in New York State. They started working with APR back in the early 2000s when they were first coming up with software for the MK4. I managed 30.5mpg on the highway last night, but that was really trying. Stock I could probably manage 33-34. The second I want to drive even the slightest bit spirited, boom mileage goes out the window and fast.


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## blue98jettavr6 (Mar 19, 2001)

just to add a little input, 2 weeks ago I got APR stage2 and Apr 3"downpipe. I have 70k on the motor. If i just let out the clutch (no revving to get moving) then mash the accel, I get a strong pull with tire churping. I'm on Koni coils and my tires are 225/35 19. ultra high performance all season tires.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

blue98jettavr6 said:


> just to add a little input, 2 weeks ago I got APR stage2 and Apr 3"downpipe. I have 70k on the motor. If i just let out the clutch (no revving to get moving) then mash the accel, I get a strong pull with tire churping. I'm on Koni coils and my tires are 225/35 19. ultra high performance all season tires.


Thanks for your input. However, this is only happening in the higher gears and not from a stop. If I baby the clutch and drive conservatively nothing happens. But if I floor it in say 5th gear around 2800rpm, then all hell breaks loose. It's definitely not the tires.


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## fsiguy (Dec 2, 2011)

This seems crazy... I have an 06 with 162,000kms, I've been stage 2 for atleast 30,000kms with zero clutch slip...(knock on wood) It must be a defective clutch or something because too have slipping with just stage 1 at such low mileage seems nuts...


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

fsiguy said:


> This seems crazy... I have an 06 with 162,000kms, I've been stage 2 for atleast 30,000kms with zero clutch slip...(knock on wood) It must be a defective clutch or something because too have slipping with just stage 1 at such low mileage seems nuts...


I completely agree with you. I really don't know what else it could be. I was also thinking that a belt was slipping or something, hence the rapid rise of the RPM. But if that were the case I think it would be much more apparent and a much bigger problem. The thing that worries me the most is that the clutch might have been on it's way out a long time ago, the tune just made it more noticeable. I'm thinking of just putting the money on the table for a Clutch Masters FX300 and be done with it.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

*Update:* So the clutch doesn't seem to be slipping as much, but now it feels like something is "skipping" under heavy load. It usually occurs only the first few times and then goes away. I can best describe the feeling as being similar to driving over those wires they put on the road to measure traffic flow or whatever. It doesn't feel like fuel cut but I'm not sure if it's the clutch either? Maybe now the flywheel?


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

derekjl said:


> *Update:* So the clutch doesn't seem to be slipping as much, but now it feels like something is "skipping" under heavy load. It usually occurs only the first few times and then goes away. I can best describe the feeling as being similar to driving over those wires they put on the road to measure traffic flow or whatever. It doesn't feel like fuel cut but I'm not sure if it's the clutch either? Maybe now the flywheel?


I'm not convinced your clutch has ever been slipping. A clutch that is going out doesn't ever get better until it's replaced. Put it in 4th and drive as slow as you can without bogging it on an open road with no traffic. Then floor it and pay close attention to how fast the RPMs increase relative to the increase in your speed. By comparing the tachometer and speedometer, it will be immediately obvious if the clutch slips because you will feel a loss of torque while the engine RPMS suddenly rise much faster than the speed of the car. If the RPM rise relative to speed remains the same until redline, regardless if the performance falls off or not, then you don't have a clutch slippage issue. 

This "skipping" you describe sounds like a bad coil. FWIW I've had APR Stage I since new on my 08 Passat 2.0 T 6MT FSI and never a clutch issue. 73K miles on her now. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

Sandman333 said:


> I'm not convinced your clutch has ever been slipping. A clutch that is going out doesn't ever get better until it's replaced. Put it in 4th and drive as slow as you can without bogging it on an open road with no traffic. Then floor it and pay close attention to how fast the RPMs increase relative to the increase in your speed. By comparing the tachometer and speedometer, it will be immediately obvious if the clutch slips because you will feel a loss of torque while the engine RPMS suddenly rise much faster than the speed of the car. If the RPM rise relative to speed remains the same until redline, regardless if the performance falls off or not, then you don't have a clutch slippage issue.
> 
> This "skipping" you describe sounds like a bad coil. FWIW I've had APR Stage I since new on my 08 Passat 2.0 T 6MT FSI since new and never a clutch issue. 73K miles on her now.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Very good post. 
How do u explain the clutch pedal sticking to the floor and not coming back up? Thanx


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Sandman333 said:


> I'm not convinced your clutch has ever been slipping. A clutch that is going out doesn't ever get better until it's replaced. Put it in 4th and drive as slow as you can without bogging it on an open road with no traffic. Then floor it and pay close attention to how fast the RPMs increase relative to the increase in your speed. By comparing the tachometer and speedometer, it will be immediately obvious if the clutch slips because you will feel a loss of torque while the engine RPMS suddenly rise much faster than the speed of the car. If the RPM rise relative to speed remains the same until redline, regardless if the performance falls off or not, then you don't have a clutch slippage issue.
> 
> This "skipping" you describe sounds like a bad coil. FWIW I've had APR Stage I since new on my 08 Passat 2.0 T 6MT FSI since new and never a clutch issue. 73K miles on her now.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Thanks for your help. I've done this test many times and yes the RPMs climb faster than the speed, definitely a loss of torque. It doesn't happen every time, just when I really get on it. I was thinking the same thing about the bad coil. I already had them replaced once under warranty. Could it be the plugs? I haven't seen any CEL light up and I have no DTCs either.


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

arismkv said:


> Very good post.
> How do u explain the clutch pedal sticking to the floor and not coming back up? Thanx


Depending on the car, a snapped clutch cable or bad master or slave cylinder for a hydraulic clutch. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

derekjl said:


> Thanks for your help. I've done this test many times and yes the RPMs climb faster than the speed, definitely a loss of torque. It doesn't happen every time, just when I really get on it. I was thinking the same thing about the bad coil. I already had them replaced once under warranty. Could it be the plugs? I haven't seen any CEL light up and I have no DTCs either.


So, once the engine gets in the torque band, the RPMs suddenly shot up without a corresponding speed increase? That's definitely clutch slippage. 

The other could be plugs or coils. If you keep your foot in it and the car is jerking, a misfire will be indicated by a flashing CEL. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Sandman333 said:


> So, once the engine gets in the torque band, the RPMs suddenly shot up without a corresponding speed increase? That's definitely clutch slippage.
> 
> The other could be plugs or coils. If you keep your foot in it and the car is jerking, a misfire will be indicated by a flashing CEL.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


That's what I thought. Like I said the funny thing is it doesn't happen every single time. Is that to be expected? I've found it happens most in 4th gear, from about 2800-3500rpm with the gas to the floor. I wonder if it isn't happening every time due to a slight power loss from the bad coil or plugs? I have noticed lately that my mileage isn't what it was right when I got the tune, let alone stock. I average about 28.5mpg and that's babying the car. I used to be able to hit 31+.


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

derekjl said:


> That's what I thought. Like I said the funny thing is it doesn't happen every single time. Is that to be expected? I've found it happens most in 4th gear, from about 2800-3500rpm with the gas to the floor. I wonder if it isn't happening every time due to a slight power loss from the bad coil or plugs? I have noticed lately that my mileage isn't what it was right when I got the tune, let alone stock. I average about 28.5mpg and that's babying the car. I used to be able to hit 31+.


You will only notice it initially when the engine is in the torque band in the higher gears (maybe 3rd) 4th, 5th and 6th and you are at WOT. Daily driving it won't be apparent at first. As the clutch gets worse (usually very quickly) you will start to notice it all the time. Eventually you won't even be able to move the car at city speed if you let it go long enough. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Sandman333 said:


> You will only notice it initially when the engine is in the torque band in the higher gears (maybe 3rd) 4th, 5th and 6th and you are at WOT. Daily driving it won't be apparent at first. As the clutch gets worse (usually very quickly) you will start to notice it all the time. Eventually you won't even be able to move the car at city speed if you let it go long enough.
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


I'm guessing the tune is just making the clutch issue more obvious? I never noticed a slip when I was stock. I'm guessing sooner or later it would have gone anyway? Any recommendations for aftermarket clutches that can take the extra power? I was thinking of going with a Clutch Masters FX300.


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## Sandman333 (Oct 28, 2002)

derekjl said:


> I'm guessing the tune is just making the clutch issue more obvious? I never noticed a slip when I was stock. I'm guessing sooner or later it would have gone anyway? Any recommendations for aftermarket clutches that can take the extra power? I was thinking of going with a Clutch Masters FX300.


That would be my guess. The Stage I tune adds 50 HP with a corresponding increase in torque. So, yes, it was probably on the way out anyway. At that low mileage, it's either your driving style or a defective factory clutch or some combination. Sorry, I haven't done any research on aftermarket to make a recommendation. 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

derekjl said:


> I'm guessing the tune is just making the clutch issue more obvious? I never noticed a slip when I was stock. I'm guessing sooner or later it would have gone anyway? Any recommendations for aftermarket clutches that can take the extra power? I was thinking of going with a Clutch Masters FX300.


A number of us with modified Golf R's have been happy with this setup:
http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...;-09/2006/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::85.html

It's designed to work with the stock dual mass flywheel though. So, if you're interested in a lightened flywheel this isn't the clutch kit for you. But, the plus is it'll be quieter at idle and such.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

iThread said:


> A number of us with modified Golf R's have been happy with this setup:
> http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...;-09/2006/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::85.html
> 
> It's designed to work with the stock dual mass flywheel though. So, if you're interested in a lightened flywheel this isn't the clutch kit for you. But, the plus is it'll be quieter at idle and such.


I wish I could afford a complete Sachs clutch/flywheel setup, but last I checked they were about $1800 for the "performance" one. I'm guessing most Golf Rs only have a few thousand miles on them and replacing just the clutch would be acceptable. But, from what I've heard, once the system has my kind of mileage on it (40k miles) and there is slippage, the flywheel is just about shot as well. So, I'd be looking to replace both at the same time.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

iThread said:


> A number of us with modified Golf R's have been happy with this setup:
> http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...;-09/2006/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::85.html
> 
> It's designed to work with the stock dual mass flywheel though. So, if you're interested in a lightened flywheel this isn't the clutch kit for you. But, the plus is it'll be quieter at idle and such.



http://www.autotech.com/category/clutch-kit-components.html?fromcat=golf-gti-rabbit-mkv-gti-2t

Though, 145k miles on the original clutch, 134k of it on APR Stage 1.... and recently Stage 2 (91 aki)...and my stock clutch holds fine


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

BsickPassat said:


> http://www.autotech.com/category/clutch-kit-components.html?fromcat=golf-gti-rabbit-mkv-gti-2t
> 
> Though, 145k miles on the original clutch, 134k of it on APR Stage 1.... and recently Stage 2 (91 aki)...and my stock clutch holds fine


I only wish they sold the matching flywheel to go with that clutch. I trust Sachs 200%.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

derekjl said:


> I only wish they sold the matching flywheel to go with that clutch. I trust Sachs 200%.


I believe they are for the dual mass flywheel....

I'm hoping for Autotech to announce a christmas sale....

I'm overdue for a new clutch.

Would love to squeeze in a Wavetrac LSD also... but finances puts it at a low priority


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

BsickPassat said:


> I believe they are for the dual mass flywheel....
> 
> I'm hoping for Autotech to announce a christmas sale....
> 
> ...


Over the past few months the clutch sometimes holds great for weeks and then starts slipping again. Sooner or later I'll definitely have to replace it and it looks like eBay UK is the place to look for quality parts. I'd much rather have a Sachs high performance unit than spend a couple hundred dollars less and risk having to replace it all over again. I want this to be a one time deal...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGE...rts_SM&fits=Plat_Gen:MK+V&hash=item3a72ea6485 Price is pretty much the same as any other aftermarket setup ($1050 roughly).

That's the crown jewel right there.


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## Dan_Rosa (Jan 15, 2011)

derekjl said:


> Over the past few months the clutch sometimes holds great for weeks and then starts slipping again. Sooner or later I'll definitely have to replace it and it looks like eBay UK is the place to look for quality parts. I'd much rather have a Sachs high performance unit than spend a couple hundred dollars less and risk having to replace it all over again. I want this to be a one time deal...
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VOLKSWAGE...rts_SM&fits=Plat_Gen:MK+V&hash=item3a72ea6485 Price is pretty much the same as any other aftermarket setup ($1050 roughly).
> 
> That's the crown jewel right there.


Do you have a boost gauge? And I would just stick with an oem clutch if you don't want to spend to much. I was stage 2 for 20,000 miles no issues. It's not that much more power that the oem can't handle. But I would check your diverter valve too. You should be boosting around 18-23psi.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Dan_Rosa said:


> Do you have a boost gauge? And I would just stick with an oem clutch if you don't want to spend to much. I was stage 2 for 20,000 miles no issues. It's not that much more power that the oem can't handle. But I would check your diverter valve too. You should be boosting around 18-23psi.


I don't have a boost gauge but I am getting VAG-COM. The one time I did log boost with it I was spiking around 20psi and holding 15. I highly doubt the car is overboosting and I have the latest DV valve. I'm probably just going to run this clutch into the ground and replace both the clutch assembly and flywheel at once. To me personally, that $1000 SACHS unit is worth the money and is much more reputable than say DXD or another aftermarket company.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I have the same issue. Been driving stick for 15 years. I've had clutches last 200k miles. I'm stage 1 APR with 55k miles and clutch slips in same rpm range you're talking about. Going to put it in stock mode and put a new clutch and plate in, in the spring.


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## GrizzlyImpact (Apr 11, 2012)

Same issue here... feels like the clutch is slipping, but in a very smooth way... not jerky. Only at speed (let's call it 3rd gear+) @ ~3k+ RPM when I apply heavy but consistent acceleration. After a few seconds the RPMs drop then it appears to resynch and accelerate. No clutch burning smell, which is weird.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

GrizzlyImpact said:


> Same issue here... feels like the clutch is slipping, but in a very smooth way... not jerky. Only at speed (let's call it 3rd gear+) @ ~3k+ RPM when I apply heavy but consistent acceleration. After a few seconds the RPMs drop then it appears to resynch and accelerate. No clutch burning smell, which is weird.



My symptoms to the T.

Revs increase past the speed the car is actually going. You are NOT losing traction, and then engine speed decreases and clutch grabs smoothly and engine speed and vehicle speed reconnect.

Slipping clutch for sure IMO.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

GrizzlyImpact said:


> Same issue here... feels like the clutch is slipping, but in a very smooth way... not jerky. Only at speed (let's call it 3rd gear+) @ ~3k+ RPM when I apply heavy but consistent acceleration. After a few seconds the RPMs drop then it appears to resynch and accelerate. No clutch burning smell, which is weird.


I will also add that I have no clutch smell. Maybe they are eco-friendly or something? lol


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## arismkv (Jun 17, 2008)

xtravbx said:


> My symptoms to the T.
> 
> Revs increase past the speed the car is actually going. You are NOT losing traction, and then engine speed decreases and clutch grabs smoothly and engine speed and vehicle speed reconnect.
> 
> Slipping clutch for sure IMO.


I have same exact issue.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> I have the same issue. Been driving stick for 15 years. I've had clutches last 200k miles. I'm stage 1 APR with 55k miles and clutch slips in same rpm range you're talking about. Going to put it in stock mode and put a new clutch and plate in, in the spring.


Might want to also think about replacing the flywheel...?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derekjl said:


> Might want to also think about replacing the flywheel...?


When I do my clutch I will do flywheel for sure.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> When I do my clutch I will do flywheel for sure.


Are you going aftermarket? Could you make any suggestions? I'm thinking of going with a Clutch Masters setup with a single mass steel flywheel.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

I was going to run a single mass and probably a Spec clutch. I have heard good things on the CM quiet/silent series though too. The original CM single mass clanked around at idle.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

iirc, I saw on ECs tuning a spec stage 2 kit with a 20 pound steel flywheel


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## GrizzlyImpact (Apr 11, 2012)

If anyone with this issue does replace the clutch and it resolves please post up so we can collectively identify and correct.

:beer::beer::beer::beer:



xtravbx said:


> My symptoms to the T.
> 
> Revs increase past the speed the car is actually going. You are NOT losing traction, and then engine speed decreases and clutch grabs smoothly and engine speed and vehicle speed reconnect.
> 
> Slipping clutch for sure IMO.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

GrizzlyImpact said:


> If anyone with this issue does replace the clutch and it resolves please post up so we can collectively identify and correct.
> 
> :beer::beer::beer::beer:


I'm replacing mine in the spring. Just saving some $$$ for it. I'm certain that is what is causing this. :beer:


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## GrizzlyImpact (Apr 11, 2012)

BUMP for any udpdate?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Not really much to update. The stock plate and disc cant clamp during max boost and you get slippage. Sucks but its the reality. 

Pricey upgrade. Especially if you want to go single mass flywheel - you should really get a fluidampr to keep it quiet at idle. 2000 can be easily spent on this whole thing.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Not really much to update. The stock plate and disc cant clamp during max boost and you get slippage. Sucks but its the reality.
> 
> Pricey upgrade. Especially if you want to go single mass flywheel - you should really get a fluidampr to keep it quiet at idle. 2000 can be easily spent on this whole thing.


Believe it or not I priced out a Clutch Master's FX300 including a single mass steel flywheel at just under $900. Check Autoplicity.com. Labor will be $500 or so depending on the shop. I've also heard that every stretch bolt that is removed in this process should be replaced with a new one. ECS Tuning has a "kit" with everything you need.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

xtravbx said:


> Not really much to update. The stock plate and disc cant clamp during max boost and you get slippage. Sucks but its the reality.
> 
> Pricey upgrade. Especially if you want to go single mass flywheel - you should really get a fluidampr to keep it quiet at idle. 2000 can be easily spent on this whole thing.


....155k miles with APR Stage 1 and downpipe.... and still no slip.

.......with Stage 2... yeah it slips


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derekjl said:


> Believe it or not I priced out a Clutch Master's FX300 including a single mass steel flywheel at just under $900. Check Autoplicity.com. Labor will be $500 or so depending on the shop. I've also heard that every stretch bolt that is removed in this process should be replaced with a new one. ECS Tuning has a "kit" with everything you need.



Well then you are at 1400 + tax on the 500 for install. Or not. But still say 1400. Then you get the fluidampr for $400 because you went single mass and now you are at 1800. Close to my 2000 estimate, which lets face it could easily hit that 2000 mark if anything comes up. 

I'm just saying, the clutch upgrade/replacement in our car is not cheap =/


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

BsickPassat said:


> ....155k miles with APR Stage 1 and downpipe.... and still no slip.
> 
> .......with Stage 2... yeah it slips



All sorts of different reasons on that - but good to hear your clutch is still holding. I got my car used at 29k CPO. APR Stg 1 93 oct from about 35k miles onward. Immediately slipping here and there at max boost. It doesn't slip TERRIBLE all the time, but you can tell it's having problems clamping that power.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Well then you are at 1400 + tax on the 500 for install. Or not. But still say 1400. Then you get the fluidampr for $400 because you went single mass and now you are at 1800. Close to my 2000 estimate, which lets face it could easily hit that 2000 mark if anything comes up.
> 
> I'm just saying, the clutch upgrade/replacement in our car is not cheap =/


 What is a fluidampr exactly? I've never heard of one of these having to be used when going single mass.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derekjl said:


> What is a fluidampr exactly? I've never heard of one of these having to be used when going single mass.


 
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/media/php/catalog.php?pid=2639 

USP sells them for cheaper. 

The dual mass fly wheel helps as a harmonic balancer in a way. When you remove that, you will have clatter at idle. You will hear your gearbox chatter at idle when sitting in neutral. I've also heard you'll hear it at certain RPM's. 

The fluidampr crank pulley helps to reduce that. Plus it frees up a few HP.


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## frankmabo (Oct 16, 2012)

I had the exact same problem after a reflash, but I had 10k on the car instead of 39k. 
I put a bleeder valve from ecs and voila, never had that problem again. 

also, at least in my case, 
1.the clutch started to gain grip as I kept using it, slipping less and less but after the clutch valve. that was that. 
2.I have the exact same clutch part no and everything that you have. but my car is a k04 from factory and is putting down 308whp and 325wtq so my advice is: 

keep using the clutch, buy the valve and keep using it. if it slips then wait a few minutes before hitting it hard again. i´ve drag a few times and after the valve thing I haven't had a single slip.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

frankmabo said:


> I had the exact same problem after a reflash, but I had 10k on the car instead of 39k.
> I put a bleeder valve from ecs and voila, never had that problem again.
> 
> also, at least in my case,
> ...


 One of the most useful posts in this thread yet, thank you! So, you mean to tell me that a $60 part saved you from replacing your clutch? Almost seems too go to be true. How can you be certain that the block helped and it wasn't just your clutch that stopped slipping by itself? It looks like installation would take about 10 minutes. What car do you have? I'm guessing Golf R?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

frankmabo said:


> I had the exact same problem after a reflash, but I had 10k on the car instead of 39k.
> I put a bleeder valve from ecs and voila, never had that problem again.
> 
> also, at least in my case,
> ...


 
Thank you. Ordered this part.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Thank you. Ordered this part.


 Please do me a huge favor and report back with your results. Thanks. :beer:


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Not a problem. I live in OH and should have the part in a day or 2 from ECS (usually). 

I have an appointment for a clutch install on Friday. Let's hope I can avoid that expense..


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Not a problem. I live in OH and should have the part in a day or 2 from ECS (usually).
> 
> I have an appointment for a clutch install on Friday. Let's hope I can avoid that expense..


 Yeah. If a $60 part can at least temporarily fix a $1500+ repair, I'd be very happy. I have no idea how I overlooked this part. I'm on ECS Tuning's website all the time. I heard it came out a couple years ago and people were having problems with the seals leaking. They revised it and seems to be working well now.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Checked the tracking number. I'll be installing this tomorrow after work, and test it out in the evening when traffic dies down. Don't want to be doing WOT in 4th gear during the day.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Checked the tracking number. I'll be installing this tomorrow after work, and test it out in the evening when traffic dies down. Don't want to be doing WOT in 4th gear during the day.


 Looking forward to the review. :thumbup:


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

xtravbx said:


> Checked the tracking number. I'll be installing this tomorrow after work, and test it out in the evening when traffic dies down. Don't want to be doing WOT in 4th gear during the day.


 I'd wait to do that kind of pull until after the break in period is over.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

iThread said:


> I'd wait to do that kind of pull until after the break in period is over.


 Break in period on the valve/clutch bleed? 

I'm not going new clutch til Friday, if this fails. On the new clutch I will definitely break in properly.


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

xtravbx said:


> Break in period on the valve/clutch bleed?
> 
> I'm not going new clutch til Friday, if this fails. On the new clutch I will definitely break in properly.


 Oh, my bad, I thought you were talking about a new clutch. Carry on.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Part will be here tomorrow. Darn you USPS.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Installed the ecs bleeder block valve. Bled it 10000x. Never held pressure. Drove me insane. Took it out cleaned it up put it back in, bled it again a ton. Still no pressure. Must have a slight leak or something. Piece of junk, is my opinion. Put the stock valve back on and it's fine. Now I need to have my brother help me bleed the stock valve - tho it feels fine. There has to be a little air in their now and it's not a speed bleeder on the stock part. 

Anyways I may contact ecs but so far it's a failed attempt. 

Bummer.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Installed the ecs bleeder block valve. Bled it 10000x. Never held pressure. Drove me insane. Took it out cleaned it up put it back in, bled it again a ton. Still no pressure. Must have a slight leak or something. Piece of junk, is my opinion. Put the stock valve back on and it's fine. Now I need to have my brother help me bleed the stock valve - tho it feels fine. There has to be a little air in their now and it's not a speed bleeder on the stock part.
> 
> Anyways I may contact ecs but so far it's a failed attempt.
> 
> Bummer.


 Darn, that's too bad. On to the clutch replacement?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derekjl said:


> Darn, that's too bad. On to the clutch replacement?


 
Yep! Gonna have some good guys at HS TUNING take care of it Friday. 

Fluidampr, stage 2 southbend, change the rear main seal and new transmission fluid. 

Goodbye $2000. 

I'm going to see if they feel installing the ECS block at the time of the clutch install is worth it, or want to check it - but I think it's defective. Stinks! 

At least I will be ready for the F23T this summer. Just need to save up another 2000 bucks to throw at my car for when thats released. Soon I won't want to DD this car... Might get a TDI eventually so I can not destroy this.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Well quick update. The valve does leak like a civ. POS. Double checked by HS tuning. 

And even if it didn't, wouldn't have fixed my clutch. My dual mass was coming apart into 2 pieces. Garbage. 

New setup is excellent. Now I'm ready for BT. Couldn't be happier. Well minus the bill of course.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

xtravbx said:


> Well quick update. The valve does leak like a civ. POS. Double checked by HS tuning.
> 
> And even if it didn't, wouldn't have fixed my clutch. My dual mass was coming apart into 2 pieces. Garbage.
> 
> New setup is excellent. Now I'm ready for BT. Couldn't be happier. Well minus the bill of course.


 My DMF is most likely doing the same thing. Did the rear main seal need to be replaced, or was it one of those "good idea to do at the same time" type things? I'm guessing the car feels like it's putting down a lot more usable power now that there is none lost through the clutch? How is a new clutch supposed to be broken in?


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

New clutch needs about 400-500 miles of standard driving - just no harsh engagements. 

Car feels a lot better. Idles nice and tight, clutch engages real tight. 

Rear main got replaced because it's already all apart and it's preventative maintenance yes. And the old version was plastic. New version is aluminum or some metal. It should never leak now. It wasn't before but cheap maintenance. If it did start leaking ever - the labor is that of a clutch replacement again. 

But yeah single mass with the fluidampr and fresh transmission fluid feels great. 

Looking forward to opening it up after break in period.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Probably be ordering this soon:

http://www.sachsperformance.com/Sac...;-09/2006/SRE-Performance-Clutch-Kit::85.html

The Golf R folks seem to like it on their cars


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

The speed shop I went to recommended the Southbend. Maybe they have higher margin, or maybe it's a better part and therefore they will have a happier customer.

I asked them about Sachs, they said they'd prefer not to use it, as they have had a few issues with it.

It's all hearsay I know - just tossing that out there though.


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Happy to report that my clutch has not slipped in over 6 weeks. I'm convinced that it had something to do with the winter weather. It seems to hold totally fine in above-freezing weather.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

derekjl said:


> Happy to report that my clutch has not slipped in over 6 weeks. I'm convinced that it had something to do with the winter weather. It seems to hold totally fine in above-freezing weather.


 Nice! 

I'm happy w/ my stage 2 and fluidampr setup. Not happy w/ a $2000 bill though. But whatever. It will be needed when my F23T shows up.


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## psuvr6 (Mar 31, 2002)

Did it slip again after it got cold again? I would assume it did as the turbos like breathing colder air. Colder air = more power in turbos


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## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

psuvr6 said:


> Did it slip again after it got cold again? I would assume it did as the turbos like breathing colder air. Colder air = more power in turbos


I left it in Stage I mode all winter and believe it or not it slipped ONCE...and that was in 10 degree weather. Somehow it seems to have magically cured itself, at least for now.


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## Kwezzy (Apr 9, 2014)

derekjl said:


> I left it in Stage I mode all winter and believe it or not it slipped ONCE...and that was in 10 degree weather. Somehow it seems to have magically cured itself, at least for now.


damn I just read this whole thread and scared to get my car tuned on friday  sucks I already paid for it.


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## xtravbx (May 21, 2005)

Kwezzy said:


> damn I just read this whole thread and scared to get my car tuned on friday  sucks I already paid for it.



You will need a new clutch eventually. Gotta pay to play.

When you do? Go with the RSR from HS Tuning. It has held my 350hp for the last 40,000 miles without even THINKING of slipping. Do it right the first time.


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