# Driving a 2012 Routan SE while my 09 SEL Prem. is getting worked on.....not that impressed



## Vr6en (May 22, 2001)

I was thinking that the new van with the 3.6 engine was going to be the cat's meow and made me think about changing it up...if they all act like the loaner I currently have, I am not interested. The engine may be great, but the transmission sucks balls. Car has less than 4k miles on it and it is clunky and hunts for gears way too much......much to the same reason I got rid of my 06 civic along time ago when they added a new trans to it. I know a 6spd helps with highway mpg, but I am not doing highway, only regular suburban city driving. The amount of times this thing changes gear or quickly upshifts only to downshift again is down right annoying. The clunk/thud that happens when shifting from park to reverse, makes me think something just hit the car. It is that bad. Hopefully other owners are not dealing with this...

I will say that the suspension is much tighter than mine, could be just the miles. I like taking turns in it.....3.6 does have a nice sound in the upper rpm range too.


In case you are wondering, 09 sel prem is in for:
1.warped rotors (in less than 15mi since last time it was done)
2.transmission clunk from 2nd to 3rd - sometimes.
3.transmission clunk from reverse to drive - sometimes.
3.erratic forward motion when constant speed between 30-40. feels like the computer is constantly pressing and releasing throttle.
4.clicking when turning wheels both ways.....first was just reverse, now forward too...cv probably
5.3rd row power seat back would lock sometimes, now will work but stow doesn't.....

I do like my 09 Routan, having it still under factory warranty is nice, bought it used after it was sold as a cpo at no extra cost, which is even nicer....covered for another 2 years. Only issue is gas mpg. My 05 4.2 v8 all wheel drive allroad gets better mpg than the routan. The allroad is just about or a little over 4200lbs.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

I think they switched transmissions from Chrysler in-house to a third party vendor. The '09 and '10have a Chrysler "62TE" transmission - a six speed. Not sure which model year, probably '11 when they introduced the new engine, but I thought they switched to an 8-speed to eek out an extra MPG or 2, I believe manufactured by ZF. ZF transmissions are on many high-end car lines, including BMW, Audi and others. The B5.5 Passats have ZF automatic trannies. At least the one on the B5.5 Passat sucks. It's the worst automatic I've ever driven in terms of drivability, always revving up and searching for the correct 'gear' and it has a terrible lag-time. That's all mostly software issues, but they're starting to see a number of torque converter failures as these things are now hitting 7 or 8 years old with 125k+ miles.

Let us know what they say about the transmission clunk from 2nd to 3rd. Our '09 SEL does it when it's cold (first drive of the day) and when it shifts 2nd to 3rd under a very light load. It will cause your teeth to rattle when it does it. Had it at the dealership for an unrelated repair and had them add the transmission to the list, but got back the "unable to duplicate problem" response. At 60k mile service now, and will have them do ATF exchange. ATF exchange at 60k mile interval is only on maintenance schedule for fleet vehicles and heavy/frequent towing, but no way I trust any automatic transmission to go 120k miles between ATF exchanges which is the regular scheduled interval.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

08-12 is still the 62Te, in 11 they added the ECON mode with dash button--turn that crap off if you have a heavy foot and you'll have the "same" trans as your 09. Did either of you guys get the trans flash software yet? That should stop the slam, either that or it could be a compounder issue. The 8 speed ZF is in the Charger that I know of right now and the next gen vans are getting a 9 speed, I think? Our 62Te has been spot on since day one. I'm glad we don't have the ECON button, I don't shop for fuel economy, that's last on my list, top of the list is moving bodies, and not the dead ones. And it has to fit in the wife's garage.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

58kafer said:


> 08-12 is still the 62Te, in 11 they added the ECON mode with dash button--turn that crap off if you have a heavy foot and you'll have the "same" trans as your 09. Did either of you guys get the trans flash software yet? That should stop the slam, either that or it could be a compounder issue. The 8 speed ZF is in the Charger that I know of right now and the next gen vans are getting a 9 speed, I think? Our 62Te has been spot on since day one. I'm glad we don't have the ECON button, I don't shop for fuel economy, that's last on my list, top of the list is moving bodies, and not the dead ones. And it has to fit in the wife's garage.


I don't think mine has been re-flashed. I don't trust my local VW dealerships though, and I don't think Chrysler/Dodge dealerships can flash the VW TCUs. When I had it in the shop I specifically asked about it, and he simply read his computer screen after entering my VIN and said "all recalls have been performed". It was like talking to a parrot. He said if it's not a recall, they have to diagnose a problem before they can re-flash the TCU. At least I have a record on the invoice of complaining of the problem. I will try a different VW dealership next time.

I agree, other than that clunk I really like the way this transmission drives. That was one thing I was pleasantly surprised about with the Routan. Always heard that automatic transmissions are a weak spot for Chrysler, and they have historically only used in-house trannies in their vehicles.


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## Vr6en (May 22, 2001)

The mpg difference is quite noticeable. Since getting it, a little suburban city driving and then some highway, then some chicago city driving. got home, 23mpg. I'd be lucky if I got 16-17 with my 09. 

I did not buy the routan or my allroad for gas efficiency. I bought it for safety and ability to haul people and things. 

If it is the same transmission, then no idea why it is so herky-jerky and always up or downshifting. new programing? Haven't used the econ button as it is only a loaner and no reason to. I am surprised that this loaner with less than 4k miles on it clunks harder than mine ever did. There is even a few hard/rough shifts mixed in. 

I never had any issues with my routan's tranny, other than the clunk/hard shifts mentioned. My van only has 35k miles on it. 

I will say that my 4.0l '09 feels like it is working so hard when you are accelerating from a stop. If you have ever driven a sienna or a odyssey, you know how effortless and smooth the acceleration is. The pentastar feels a lot better in that regard, personal opinion. 

Considering I am spoiled with having every available option on my routan, I could not justify spending more than double on what I did for my 09. $44k for a premium version when I spent $20k. I'd rather have someone else pay the depreciation.....

I do not know if my 09 has had a the software update, hopefully if not they will do that. I will keep you updated on what was fixed...


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## Vr6en (May 22, 2001)

Vr6en said:


> In case you are wondering, 09 sel prem is in for:
> 1.warped rotors (in less than 15mi since last time it was done)
> 2.transmission clunk from 2nd to 3rd - sometimes.
> 3.transmission clunk from reverse to drive - sometimes.
> ...


This is what they did....

1. Replaced all 4 discs and all pads - same feel, which is good.
2. They could not replicate - stated meets current spec
3. They could not replicate - stated meets current spec
4. They replaced the hub/bearings on front drivers side (not sure this solved it though)
5. Replaced the steering wheel clockspring - wasn't the cv's. but since this is an interior part, not sure how it relates to the clicking from outside the vehicle....
6. They updated the software - seems to be working fine.

So we shall see about the clunking, if it comes back. No idea if they updated software or not for it, as it was not stated in the work order...


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Thanks for posting back. Perhaps other vehicle mfr's do the same thing, but seems to be VW's M.O. to only do the computer updates if required for recall or if they can diagnose a problem. One dealership said something similar awhile back about our Passat, and then the recent dealership experience where they said "could not duplicate problem" and refused to update the TCU.

I was going to try a different nearby dealership and see if they'd do it if I just asked them straight-up that I wanted the software update, and also have them do an ATF exchange. Response was "ATF exchange is not recommended for your vehicle". Odd, b/c it's in the Bentley as scheduled maintenance at 120k or 60k if operated under extremes (towing, fleet, etc.). There are a couple more dealerships I can try, but starting to to be a bit of a haul to get there.

Also called the nearby Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep dealership that seems to be very highly regarded, but they said they won't touch a Routan even though it's the same vehicle. Noted the VW computer is different too. Understandable, I guess.


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## Vr6en (May 22, 2001)

Made another appointment as my rear seat back is stuck again (was never thinking their software update would fix that), clicking noise is back, they changed the clockspring inside at the steering wheel. Looked at cv's, they look fine, so not sure what is up with that. The constant speed fluttering is still there as well as the gear clunking. Asked to update software for trans. We shall see what happens. 

The rotors they put on looked like the new style, or ones from the new routans. So far so good.


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## Vr6en (May 22, 2001)

Vr6en said:


> Made another appointment as my rear seat back is stuck again (was never thinking their software update would fix that), clicking noise is back, they changed the clockspring inside at the steering wheel. Looked at cv's, they look fine, so not sure what is up with that. The constant speed fluttering is still there as well as the gear clunking. Asked to update software for trans. We shall see what happens.
> 
> The rotors they put on looked like the new style, or ones from the new routans. So far so good.



I was told that there are no software updates for the routan's tranny. They could not recreate the clunking or the constant speed fluttering. They said everything was within spec.

They replaced the other hub/bearing, so I now have 2 new front hub/wheel bearings. Clicking could not be replicated.

They replaced the seat control and the seat seems to be working just fine.


I got the same '12 loaner routan again and noticed that it clunks hard from 1-2 every time that the 'eco' button is engaged. Once I turned it off, no more clunking. Still hunts for gears, but it was a lot better this time. Still much better mpg than my 4.0.

Having the CPO on this thing came in handy as this time I went it was at 36050 miles. Not sure if they would have charged me as everything done was related to work they did a few weeks ago under warranty. 

Anyway, will just have to deal with the fluttering at speed....not sure it is hurting anything.


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## Zambee500 (Jun 23, 2011)

Vr6en said:


> I was told that there are no software updates for the routan's tranny.


I think that is simply untrue. 

58kafer - did you get yours flashed? Was there a "part" number listed on your invoice for the reflash? Anyone have a TSB# for it? 

With the Passat TDI (a relatively rare car in N. America) you sometimes have to spoon-feed everything to the dealerships. Give them TSB# and part#'s. They will often either argue with you until you give them that, or they give you a deer-in-headlight look. If that happens with a "true" VW, then it wouldn't surprise me at all that it might also happen with the VW Chrysler van.


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

Nope, I never had the issue--Our van has been spot on since day one. It's over on chryslerminivan.net, I'll see if I can dig it up and post later.


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