# DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (in 4 easy steps)



## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

First off, I want to thank theswoleguy, 20aeman, gre9del and all of the helpful VWvortex vendors mentioned below. A lot of the ideas and instructions below are borrowed, and I wanted to give credit where it's due. Theswole guy has a great post with general information about E85, a 1.8T-specific FAQ, and details of his experiences using E85, which can be found here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3866545. 
Below are detailed instructions for the 4 steps needed for E85 conversion: installing a Walbro 255lph inline fuel pump, swapping out the stock MAF for a 3" VR6/TT225 MAF, replacing the stock fuel injectors with 630cc ones, and tuning the whole thing. You will need all of parts listed below, most of the tools mentioned, and some mechanical aptitude. I assume no responsibility for you performing this procedure or the negative impact it may have on you or your car. *Proceed at your own risk!!
*Parts Needed:* (and recommended places to get them)
-Walbro 255lph inline fuel pump with basic install kit ([email protected] has a great deal going on now, $320 shipped for 4 630s and the Walbro pump, http://www.ctsturbo.com/produc....html)
-Walbro/MK4 relay wiring harness (optional, if you would rather save money and assemble this yourself, I recommend just paying the $65 here: http://www.usrallyteam.com/ind...d=412)
-Siemens/Deka 630cc fuel injectors (recommend purchasing from CTS along with Walbro pump above)
-Fuel rail spacers and extended bolts for aftermarket injectors (CTSturbom, USRT, ECS and others carry this)
-VR6 or TT225 MAF housing
-VR6 or TT225 airbox, or an intake that can attach to the 3" MAF housing
-3" silicon coupler
-3/8" fuel line hose clamps (2 or 4, depending on..)
-3/8" fuel injection hose (optional, but makes installation easier)

*Tools Needed:*
-computer with an OBD2 cable and VAG-COM installed
-multi-meter or volt-meter
-Torx and Torx Plus/TS security bits ( http://www.amazon.com/Silverhi...r=1-5 )
-long reach allen keys
-assorted sockets and drivers
-assorted screwdrivers
-crimp tool
-Exacto knife
-telescoping magnet (optional, but helpful)
-pick/hook set (optional, but helpful)
-coat hanger
-electrical tape
*STEP 1: Walbro Inline Pump Install* 








1) Make sure you have all the parts you ordered, and all the tools you’ll need, especially if you don’t have a backup vehicle to make a parts run. Pay close attention to the little nuts and washers that came with the pump, o-rings on the injectors, etc.








2) Inside the car, remove the 3 torx head screws securing the lower kick panel on the driver’s side. Two of these screw positions are shown in the picture above; the third is off to the left.








3) Remove the kick panel by pulling downwards on the front edge, and then pulling the whole panel towards the rear of the car and out of the white sandwich clips near the pedals.








4) On the right side of the relay panel, locate relay position “87F/Diesel,” this is where we will be tapping to switch the new inline pump relay on.








5) Using a multimeter or volt meter, confirm that when the key is switched to the on position, this relay goes hot (12V) for several seconds before returning to 0V. This can be tricky if you are working by yourself, but can be done.
6) Start the car up, and then pull fuse #28 from the panel on the end of the dash. Doing this will disable the stock fuel pump, causing the motor to stall and relieving the injection lines of most of their pressure.








7) Remove the key from the ignition, and disconnect the battery.
















8) Locate a suitable place to mount the new pump relay. My car had an unused stud near the factory airbox.








9) Locate a nut and washer to be used on the stud from your collection. You’ll need a M6x1.0 nut and M6 washer if you use this location.
















10) To make installing the relay easier (and since it will be coming out later anyways), remove the factory airbox. This is done by disconnecting the plug going to the MAF sensor, undoing the hose clamp on the MAF, disconnecting the SAI line going to the airbox, and removing the two allen head cap screws or bolts securing the airbox to the car.








11) With the airbox out of the way, you can now use a ratchet and deep socket to install the relay, washer and nut to the stud coming off the fender.








12) Remove the four Philips head screws holding the headlight covers in place, and remove both halves of the cover.








13) Begin routing the wiring harness over to the passenger side of the vehicle. Learn from my mistake and route the harness UNDER the hood release cable. Replace the inner headlight cover, and you will notice a conveniently located notch that allows the harness to pass through and holds it in place.








14) While routing the harness across to the passenger sides, use zip-ties to keep everything pinned up above the radiator and away from hot and moving parts.








15) Once over near the passenger side headlight, I dropped the harness down to where the motor mount is, and then routed it up between the power steering and coolant overflow reservoirs to the fuel lines where the pump will be located.








16) Going back inside the car, use an Exacto knife to make a small slit in one of the grommets running through the firewall. If you already have a vacuum line for a boost gauge running through like I did, this step isn’t necessary. Using a straightened out coat hanger, poke through the opened grommet and into the engine bay. Working under the hood, route the yellow wire from the new relay harness beneath the airbox, hoses, and other wires in the engine bay, and attach it to the end of the hanger with some electrical tape. Back inside the car, slowly pull the hanger back through the grommet, hopefully with the yellow wire still attached.








17) Pull enough of the wire through so that it can be cleanly routed away from the pedal assembly. Attach a crimp-on ring connector to the end of the wire large enough to fit on the relay terminal stud. Remove the nut, and reinstall along with the yellow wire.
















18) Back under the hood, remove the 10mm nuts on both the positive and negative battery cables, and attach the one red wire in the new harness to the positive terminal, and the two black wires to the negative terminal.
































19) The inline fuse holder included with the new harness can be mounted to the top lid of the battery fuse box. Position the holder and mark where it will attach with a scratch awl or similar. Find a very short self tapping screw and a washer or two. With the screw installed, you want to make sure that it just barely goes through the lid and doesn’t come in contact with any of the fuses.









20) Begin preparing the Walbro inline pump for installation by installing the sound deadening sleeve onto the pump, and removing the red plastic caps on the inlet and outlet. 








21) Install the included hose barbs onto the pump. The barbs themselves are 5/8”, and the pump is between ½” and 9/16”, which I didn’t have so I used an adjustable crescent wrench.
















22a) *Option 1: if your fuel lines are newer and in good shape, you can try installing the pump onto your existing lines. Use an Exacto knife to cut the FEED line (this is the one with the black right angle connector, shown above, going to the fuel rail pipe with the stamped forward arrow). Your want to make your two cuts slight after each bend in the hose, allowing enough room for the length of the pump. Some fuel will come out when you make your first cut, so you’ll want to have a cup or rag beneath to catch.
















22b) *Option 2: if your fuel lines have seen better days, or refuse to stretch over the new pump’s hose barbs, you’ll prefer this route. Remove the feed line completely from the car. At the rear end, remove the quick connect elbow by pressing in the little button and pulling upwards. To avoid breaking this extremely hard to find and very expensive connector like I did, I recommend removing the metal clamp with a pair of needle nose locking pliers, and then gently make a cut lengthwise in the hose so that it can be easily pulled up. The hose seems to bind over time to the connector, and twisting and pulling is NOT the way to go. At the fuel rail end, move the easier to work with spring clamp, and remove the hose from the pipe, using some curved jaw pliers to assist in twisting the hose free if needed.








23) You will want to replace the fuel line with 3/8” ID “Fuel Injection Hose.” The injection part is crucial, as regular fuel hose or vacuum hose is not reinforced and is not rated to the 100+ PSI working pressure needed. Goodyear and other reputable companies produce this hose in rolls, or sold on the shelves in 18” pre-cut lengths. You may need to go to a specialty auto parts store, as this is not always carried at Pep Boys and the like.
































24) Using the 3/8” fuel line hose clamps, secure two lengths of the fuel hose to the barbs on the pump. Position the pump in the car, with the electric terminals facing the front of the car, and install the lines onto the fuel rail and the quick connect elbow using fuel line clamps.
























25) Looking at the case of the pump, you will see a “+” and “-“ stamped in marking each terminal. Place the wire’s ring connectors onto the appropriate terminal, and using masterful manual dexterity, install the included star washers and 8mm nuts. 








26) At this point, finish up the installation by re-installing the headlight cover, dash kick panel, and making sure all your new wiring is secure. If you plan on continuing the conversion later and would like to use your car in the meantime, install the stock airbox and the connectors and hoses going to it. Otherwise leave the airbox out. Reinstall fuse #28 and reconnect the battery. Use a combination of door openings and key switching to the on position to prime the fuel pumps several times. Check underhood for the smell of fuel, and look closely at all the hose/barb junctions for leaks.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (4ceFed4)*

*STEP 2: Siemens/Deka 630cc Injector Swap* 
**Gre9del has already done an excellent write-up on swapping the injectors here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3386087. I have added some of my own insight to the process and took my own pictures, hopefully it helps.
27) Prepare for this installation by removing both factory engine covers, if you have them. If you have run your car since upgrading the fuel pump, start your car, then remove the new inline fuse attached to the battery cover, and then fuse #28 from the dash end fuse panel. Disconnect the battery.








28) Remove the connecter going to the IAT sensor on the intake manifold. Squeeze both sides of the metal clip and pull out to release.








29) Remove the vacuum line going to the FPR by removing whatever hose clamp is on the line, and then pulling the hose straight off.








30) Remove the feed and return line hoses going to the fuel rail. These lines were “stuck” to the fuel rail tubes pretty good on my car, giving them a gentle twist with some curved jaw pliers first worked great.








31) Remove the four electrical connectors going to the fuel injectors by squeezing the metal portion of the clip and pulling the connectors off in pairs.








32) Separate the plastic tunnel housing the fuel injector wiring from the fuel rail. Using both hands, gently pry the plastic arms latching around the top and bottom of the fuel rail outwards, and pull the tunnel off and out of the way of the fuel rail. This is a little tricky and takes some maneuvering, so just take your time.








33) Remove the two 8mm allen head cap bolts holding the fuel rail down by using a long reach 8mm allen key or equivalent. Use the telescoping magnet to remove the two bolts and washers.
34) Now you can pull the fuel rail attached injectors out of the intake manifold. Using two hands, pull the assembly straight out using even force. You can try gently rocking the rail back and forth to help loosen the injector seats.








35) Flipping the fuel rail over, you will see the four injectors. I removed and replaced each one by one by first carefully removing the metal retaining clip with a small screwdriver (be careful not to drop these into the engine bay!), and then twisting and pulling the old injector out.








36) For two out of my four injectors, the o-ring did not come off with the injector, and I used a small hook tool to retrieve these from the fuel rail. Check each injector when you remove it to make sure it has 2 o-rings, one on each end. Once you know all o-rings are accounted for, put a little motor oil on the o-rings of the new injector and push it into the fuel rail until the last notch is just above the lip. Replace the securing metal clip.
















37) You will see while installing the new injectors that they are noticeably taller than the stock units. This is corrected for by using the fuel rail spacer kit you thoughtfully purchased. You can see the newer bolts and spacers to the left, and original bolt and washer to the right in the lower pic.








38) Being very careful not to drop any parts into the depths of the engine bay, place the new fuel rail spacers between the fuel rail and the manifold, and then using a magnetized long reach allen key or telescoping magnet, install the hold down bolt for the fuel rail. Tighten the bolts down to 7 ft-lbs.








39) Clip the wiring tunnel back onto the fuel rail. Reinstall the vacuum line onto the FPR, the IAT connector, the feed and return lines onto the fuel rail. Reinstall the fuel pump fuses, and reconnect the battery. Be sure to check everything you touched for leaks once completing your preliminary tune below and starting the car for the first time. I recommend priming the fuel pumps several times before starting, both the pressurize the lines for an initial leak check, and to assist in that first start.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (4ceFed4)*

*STEP 3: VR6/TT225 MAF Housing Install * 
























40) For this step of the conversion, you will be using the mass airflow sensor housing out of an Audi TT 225 or a 12V or 24V (non-R32) VR6. You will be re-using your stock sensor in the new housing, which may require one or both of the specialty bits shown above. As the 5-point tamper-proof (TS) bits are hard to find, as an alternative you can use a pair of needle nose locking pliers or similar to grab the outer edges of these screws and twist them out. The newer 6 point screws are “T20” size, and the older 5 point screws found in many 12V VR6 MAFs are “TS25” size. If you are having trouble removing the 5-point screws, PM me and I will loan you the correct bit for a refundable deposit plus postage.
















41) You have four options for the intake you will use after the new 3” OD MAF housing. Shown from left to right above, you have the TT225 airbox, 12V VR6 airbox, and stock airbox. Additionally, you can use any aftermarket intake designed for a VR6 car. Using the stock airbox will require significant Dremeling to the MAF opening to enlarge it a ¼”, and I imagine you will have to re-drill holes for the mounting screws. The VR6 airbox is nice in that it’s easier to locate used, the lightest weight of the bunch, has the fewest airflow obstructions, and usually your cheapest option. However, if you can find one, the ideal choice is the stock airbox out of the TT225, for the simple reason that it drops straight in and works. You will notice on the VR airbox that the inlet for the SAI hose is located on the far corner of the air box, and while the hose can be re-routed and stretched, it’s a tricky fit. Also absent on the VR airbox is the air horn that helps to laminate air flow going into the MAF. The TT225 airbox has all of these parts right, and has a nice finished cover veneer to help insulate and pretty up your engine bay.








42) Also note that the same size air filter is used in all three housings, so if you have a nice K&N or ITG drop-in from your stock airbox, simply move it over to the new one. Similarly, any airbox top will fit any airbox bottom, which led me to go with the combination of a VR6 12V bottom, and a TT225 top, netting the best qualities of both boxes.








**Shameless plug: while your airbox is out is the perfect time to upgrade those shift cable bushings if you haven’t already. While the price of 42DD bushings keeps going up, Speed Source has a beautiful solid brass application for our cars that works great, all for $28 shipped. I just installed mine and they work AMAZING. 
http://www.speed-source.net/ **








43) While there are several possible ways to attach the new larger MAF housing to your stock or aftermarket turbo inlet hose, here is an effective way I figured out that is also very easy. Clean up the TIH and a 3” silicon coupler with some soap and water and dry well. Install the coupler nearly as far as it will go onto the TIH. Next, install the new airbox into position, and slide the coupler off the TIH as needed so that it mates up squarely with the MAF. Tighten two large hose clamps here on both ends of the coupler to secure it. Reattach the SAI hose, MAF sensor plug, and reinstall the two allen head or hex bolts securing the airbox to the car.








44) Tada!! You have now finished all the hardware changes needed to support running E85!


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (4ceFed4)*

*STEP 4: Software Tuning * 
Lemmiwinks: http://www.ecodetuning.com/revo/Lemmiwinks.exe
UNI-settings: http://www.unitronic.ca/UNISetting.php
You have two excellent choices for adjusting your fuel trims, timing, and other parameters to adjust for E85, but my preference is UNI-settings for two reasons. First, UNI-settings works with “dumb” USB to OBD2 cables WITHOUT pulling fuse #11, and second, UNI allows you to save settings profiles, which makes it easy to switch back and forth from E85 to 93/91.
45) So assuming that you either need to drive to the gas station to fill up with E85, or would like to ability to run on normal pump gas, I am first going to detail the changes needed to run on 93 or 91 octane gas. While I haven’t yet run VAG-COM logs except to check for knock, you are amazingly able to make your car run the same as before you completed the 3 steps above by making some simple changes.








Idle: I recommend bumping this up 90-100 RPM, especially if you have poly motor mounts. The engine will idle like you have a mild cam installed otherwise.
Fueling on decreasing load: dropping this 10-15% will reduce the “throttle hang” that occurs when using the VR6 MAF housing.
Fuel enrichment on startup and warmup: these two definitely take some tinkering, but try starting off with a 20-25% decrease and see how the car feels. My car ran a little rough for the first 60 seconds then adapted fine to the new setup.
Ignition timing: because the VR MAF adds the equivalent of 4-5 degrees of timing advance over stock, you’ll want to compensate by running -3.0 of timing retard. If you only have 91 octane fuel available by you, change the setting to -4.5.
Primary fuel enrichment: you will want to decrease this value the maximum amount possible, which is a little less than -25%. Between this change and the ECU’s ability to adapt, you will be able to correct for the larger 630cc injectors, but just barely.
46) With these changes made, select “Write to ECU,” and cycle the ECU by turning the ignition off and then back on to save the changes. You can save this profile locally to your computer so that you can easily revert once you make changes for E85 by clicking “Save to disk.” Go into VAG-COM, module 01, Fault Codes, and select clear all codes to reset the ECU. Now is also a good time to do a throttle body adaptation by selecting 08-Measuring Blocks, entering group 060, switching to Basic Settings, and waiting 30 seconds before closing.
47) At this point you are good to start your car. Don’t forget to check for fuel leaks. Drive the car around and see how it feels, and run some VAG-COM logs (which I’ll be getting into during a later post) and see how the fuel trims are adapting.








48) When you’re ready for your first fill up with E85, you’ll want to make a new settings profile following the above as rough guidelines. Basically you want to reset the primary fuel trim back to zero, increase timing, and tinker with the warmup and startup values until the car feels right. You can lower the idle a little bit if you like, but continue playing with the decelerating load fueling until throttle hang is minimal. The settings above are a baseline and I will continually post updates as I experiment and log, but on my car at least this configuration makes the E85 feel pretty darn nice.








49) *Updated 3/10/10*
The above screen shot shows the latest settings I've been using with E85. You'll notice that I trimmed 5% off the primary fuel tweak, in an effort to get the running value in measuring block 032 within the +/- 10% guideline. Current readings are -0.4% and -4.5%. The fuel enrichment at startup value is also crucial to avoid storing multiple cylinder misfire DTCs from rough starts. It seems as though adding an extra 5% helps out quite a bit. A 3% increase avoided codes but was a little rough, and 0% was pretty rough for that first 60 seconds of "start up." I might try adding a few more % and seeing if things get better or worse. The warm up value doesn't seem as critical, but I added some extra fuel in there and the car seems to have responded well. My idle is still a little bit shakier than stock, but not bad by any means. Once I get everything else set where I like it, I will go after this last. I'm still not exactly sure what the idle additive torque does, but changing it back to 0 from +2 (in combination with the installation of hard boost pipes) gave me an extra couple mmHG of vacuum at idle. 

***Well that is pretty much it. Check back as I update the software tuning part of the conversion, and please share your findings as well so that we can collectively iron out all the wrinkles. I am very happy that I did this conversion, and would recommend it to anyone who has convenient access to E85 fueling stations. The low and mid range power gains are VERY noticeable, as is the complete lack of top end as a result of maxxing out the stock turbo. I hope this guide helps the community, and good luck!
_Modified by 4ceFed4 at 5:53 PM 3-4-2010_


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## 20aeman (Jun 8, 2006)

very nice. 
I think I'm going to have to go back to the corn juice. Just need to find some 870 injectors.
wanna sell me that vr airbox?










_Modified by 20aeman at 9:12 AM 2-28-2010_


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## Nightrider (May 10, 2002)

*Re: (20aeman)*

This is an EXCELLENT write-up!


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (Nightrider)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nightrider* »_This is an EXCELLENT write-up!























Thanks, I appreciate the feedback


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## saps (Jul 10, 2009)

amazing job on the writeup, i will definitely be using this as a guide when i do my conversion .


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Should be in the FAQ awesome work.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (ejg3855)*

Thanks


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## saps (Jul 10, 2009)

a couple things:
1. bump
2. FAQ material


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (saps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *saps* »_a couple things:
1. bump
2. FAQ material

Thanks! Looks like it got added to the FAQ








I started looking at some fuel logs today from my initial set up. At idle my car is at 0% adaptation, and -17.1% running. Idle has lost a little of its smoothness. With a requested idle of 820 RPM, it bounces around between 800-820. The engine load at idle is 13.7%, which is a little below the 15% minimum of the range. Everything else looks good. If anyone has any suggestions where to go from here, I'd love to hear. Otherwise I'm going to start experimenting and see what happens


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

Log timing and tweak ?


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (4ceFed4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_*STEP 4: Software Tuning * 

48) When you’re ready for your first fill up with E85, you’ll want to make a new settings profile following the above as rough guidelines. Basically you leave the primary fuel trim alone, increase timing, and tinker with the warmup and startup values until the car feels right. You can lower the idle a little bit if you like, but continue playing with the decelerating load fueling until throttle hang is minimal. The settings above are a baseline and I will continually post updates as I experiment and log, but on my car at least this configuration makes the E85 feel pretty darn nice.



When you say leave the primary alone you mean to set it back to 0% instead of the -25% correct?


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## DH Photography (Sep 9, 2009)

And the point of this is????


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## engineerd18t (Dec 12, 2007)

*Re: (DH Photography)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DH Photography* »_And the point of this is????

To run E85 and enjoy its benefits. 
Nice write up. I've run E85 by simply filling my tank with it with larger injectors to match up the AFRs then added timing. It's a bit easier but this looks more professional.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_Log timing and tweak ?


I'm really not looking to max out timing, but I can tell you that with a VR6 MAF (+4-5 degrees) and +7.5 degrees added in UNI-settings, I had 0 timing pull when logging the 4 cylinders for several 2nd and 3rd gear runs. The torque from these settings, especially part throttle in 2nd and 3rd gear, is almost scary. Mind you I put down 291 ft-lbs to the wheels running 93 and xylene, so I'm not a torque noob. The car feels like it's well into the 3s, and I'm not allowed to replace rods in my SCCA class, so I'll probably be backing things off a bit for the long run.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (ejg3855)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ejg3855* »_
When you say leave the primary alone you mean to set it back to 0% instead of the -25% correct?

That's correct. I may adjust the primary down a little bit if I can't get the correction shown in Block 032 down by adjusting some other things.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (DH Photography)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DH Photography* »_And the point of this is????

Just as Engineerd said. Why wouldn't you want to allow your car to run a cheaper fuel that also produces significant power gains??


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (4ceFed4)*

Excellent write up.
1 suggestion. Send an email to VMG and ask them to hose the text and images so that the links wont be broken in months to come as this thread gets passed around the internet. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Excellent write up.
1 suggestion. Send an email to VMG and ask them to hose the text and images so that the links wont be broken in months to come as this thread gets passed around the internet. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Thanks for the advice. I just email [email protected], I'll see what they say. I have the images hosted on private ISP web space, so they should be pretty reliable for the long term, and I have no plans on deleting them.


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## bjtgtr (Dec 13, 2006)

*Re: (4ceFed4)*

Great write up







very well thought out and informative.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (4ceFed4)*

Power gains from advaning timing and/or up'ing boost - yes
cheaper gas - no

You use ~30% more. So, it need to be ~30% less to break even. Not to mention you have to fill up more often.
Don't get wrong. I run E85 daily.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Power gains from advaning timing and/or up'ing boost - yes
cheaper gas - no

You use ~30% more. So, it need to be ~30% less to break even. Not to mention you have to fill up more often.
Don't get wrong. I run E85 daily. 

Not sure about gas and E85 prices across the country, but here's what I have observed locally on Long Island, NY. There are currently several stations offering E85 at $2.27 a gallon. A gallon of 93 runs around $3.09-3.17, depending where you go. So looking at MPGs, is it cheaper than 93? No, it is just barely more expensive. My cheaper comment was meant as a comparison to race fuel, which in all honesty E85 is more similar to. With E85, you get all the benefits of race fuel, at about the price of 93, and a fraction of the cost of actual race fuel.


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## IDP FTW (Jul 25, 2006)

*FV-QR*

bookmarked. Great write-up
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## joe'sGTI (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (4ceFed4)*

<3 u


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (joe'sGTI)*

Why can't every DIY be this good?


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## dtcaward (May 10, 2009)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run ... (schwartzmagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *schwartzmagic* »_Why can't every DIY be this good?









i know right, great wight up, two http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DH Photography (Sep 9, 2009)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Power gains from advaning timing and/or up'ing boost - yes
cheaper gas - no

You use ~30% more. So, it need to be ~30% less to break even. Not to mention you have to fill up more often.
Don't get wrong. I run E85 daily. 

Yep. One one E85 station around and its an hour away.


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (4ceFed4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_
I started looking at some fuel logs today from my initial set up. At idle my car is at 0% adaptation, and -17.1% running

FWIW that's almost exactly what mine are as well.
Setup:
Ko3s, 3" MAF, 630s on stock fuel pump







, APR 93 and 100 files.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (bzflag)*

Thanks for all the kind words everyone








I'm going to do a TDI 5th gear swap DIY in the coming weeks, keep an eye out.

_Quote, originally posted by *bzflag* »_
FWIW that's almost exactly what mine are as well.
Setup:
Ko3s, 3" MAF, 630s on stock fuel pump







, APR 93 and 100 files.
 
That's good to know. I think I'm still going to fudge with things and try to get the running adaptation inside of +/- 10%.


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (4ceFed4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_
That's good to know. I think I'm still going to fudge with things and try to get the running adaptation inside of +/- 10%.

I just pulled the ~16% out of my primary...


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (bzflag)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bzflag* »_
I just pulled the ~16% out of my primary...

Yea, that's what I meant I am going to try to do.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (4ceFed4)*

I played with a few more start up and warm up related settings over the weekend. Changing the start up and warm up values back to the default 100% caused the car to misfire a lot in that first 60 seconds after you start her up in the morning, so it definitely seems that increasing fueling during these stages is the way to go. On a positive note, a further decrease in the decel load down to 85% further improved the throttle hang issue, I may try another 5% off here and see where it takes me. Still playing around with primary and secondary tweaks, I will update the E86 settings jpg in "Step 4" above once I come up with settings I am completely happy with, until then what I have posted up there is a good start.


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## bzflag (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (4ceFed4)*

IM sent


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

*FV-QR*

neat info


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: (bzflag)*

Step 4 updated with new Uni-Settings.


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## MdvWGolf8901 (Jul 19, 2008)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (4ceFed4)*

wouldnt e85 be bad for ur car because it does burn a whole lot quicker which can cause more detonation


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (MdvWGolf8901)*

no... and i have a VR6 airbox if someone wants to make an offer for me to get off my ass and put it in the mail box.


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (theswoleguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_The newer 6 point screws are “T20” size, and the older 5 point screws found in many 12V VR6 MAFs are “TS25” size. If you are having trouble removing the 5-point screws, PM me and I will loan you the correct bit for a refundable deposit plus postage.

The 5 pointed bits are called "Torx Plus". Amazon sells the Torx Plus security/tamper bit set. 
http://www.amazon.com/Silverhi...r=1-5


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (TheBossQ)*

Good find, I'll add that info to my thread, thanks


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (TheBossQ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheBossQ* »_
The 5 pointed bits are called "Torx Plus". Amazon sells the Torx Plus security/tamper bit set. 
http://www.amazon.com/Silverhi...r=1-5



I recently installed a ModShack MOFO and used channel locks to grab the edge of the screw and loosen it. Once it begins to loosen, it comes out pretty easily.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: DIY: a complete guide to convert your chipped 1.8T to run on E85 FlexFuel ethanol (JettaRed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaRed* »_
I recently installed a ModShack MOFO and used channel locks to grab the edge of the screw and loosen it. Once it begins to loosen, it comes out pretty easily.

I tried that approach first. It seems like the factory uses the equivalent of loctite blue when assembling some MAFs, and that makes it pretty tricky to get those screws out with just channel locks. I had a good grip on mine with some Vise-Grips, and they weren't budging.


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

channel locks for me but none the less not the right tool for the job, but got the job done.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

lol looks like old links and quotes are a bunch of fail. 

Best bet is to cut them off and replace.


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## AudiTToR (Nov 27, 2008)

Great thread for anyone going BT.... 

only bumped so i could find this later tonight haha


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

whats really sad is since the merger over to this forum the link with all my information is dead and i cant find my write up anywhere...


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

I think you can find the thread and info if you do a google search and use the cache feature.... also, there are websites that record/save webpage history so all your post/info is recorded somewhere. Do a google search for this kind of stuff. I'd post a link but I'm at work right now and they block everything, except this thank god.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

The Internet Archive Way Back Machine -http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

But to an e85 question.

I have all the requirements but I have an APR stg3 in tank fuel pump. Is that going to push enough pressure/ volume to work?

Other supporting mods:
870cc injectors
Unitronic 870 tune MAFless
70mm TB
W/M Injection
3" Intake Tubing
2.5" Charge Pipe w/ APR FMIC


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

schwartzmagic said:


> I think you can find the thread and info if you do a google search and use the cache feature.... also, there are websites that record/save webpage history so all your post/info is recorded somewhere. Do a google search for this kind of stuff. I'd post a link but I'm at work right now and they block everything, except this thank god.


ya i have tried this, cached works but its a real pita to get to the other pages.


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## A267MM (Nov 9, 2009)

just did this but i have a aeb head on it with rods,i did the same thing as the last picture of the unisetting










should i crank the wastegate for more boost?


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## schwartzmagic (Apr 29, 2007)

:laugh:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

itll be real nice when the unitune suite is avail and can have two files


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

theswoleguy said:


> itll be real nice when the unitune suite is avail and can have two files


you mean if....


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

explain...?

btw srry about taking a week to ship caught me right at finals and such.


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## mihnea71 (Nov 23, 2008)

Very useful information. I want to do and converting it to my car. Unfortunately I can not see the photos attached. They have been removed?


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## Marcio (Sep 4, 2009)

hi guys.
im running for about 3 days on 100% pure ethanol.
im using 630cc siemens + apr stage 3 intank pump and eurodyne maestro.
after a period of tuning, the car runs as smooth as it was on gasoline.
im using the base file for stock injectors, but ive enriched the mixture on eurodyne flash, there is this little ap where you can easely increase it.

lambda on WOT is .80 and on idle and half thrittle is about 1.00.

how much of ignition advance do you recomend for me???

thank you very much.

Marcio.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

Hi guys,

Sorry the pics are all down. I recently moved and switched to FIOS, which hardly gives you any webhosting space. I will be rehosting these pics soon and will update the thread with the updated links. Sorry for the inconveiience!


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## GTI_Quest (Nov 2, 2001)

Hey were you able to host the pics up? Great write up. I can do this but what can I say I like pictures.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

GTI_Quest said:


> Hey were you able to host the pics up? Great write up. I can do this but what can I say I like pictures.


I just signed up for a photobucket account, so I'll have these images back up this weekend hopefully. Thanks for the feedback :beer:


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

Pics are back up!! Let me know if anyone has any problems viewing the thread. :thumbup:


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## GTI_Quest (Nov 2, 2001)

Works, Much appreciated :beer:


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## mihnea71 (Nov 23, 2008)

Now, all is good! Thank you, 4ceFed4 !


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Why do you need to upgrade to 3" maf housing?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Marcio said:


> hi guys.
> im running for about 3 days on 100% pure ethanol.
> im using 630cc siemens + apr stage 3 intank pump and eurodyne maestro.
> after a period of tuning, the car runs as smooth as it was on gasoline.
> ...


 How are your o2 corrections doing? I might try your route because i rescaled the injectors in actual tune, and added fuel and did all of that. Can you do a 3rd gear pull from 3k- redline and post up a log?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

some people say it burns quicker and slower, its really trippy but it burns alot cooler then gasoline so it is better for boost applications.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

we don't get E85..it'd be $5 a gallon here anyway..bastards...


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Vegeta Gti said:


> we don't get E85..it'd be $5 a gallon here anyway..bastards...


Damn we've recently got it in our town maybe year now. 3.39$ a gallon here. Sucks compared to what it was before 2.25$


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

codergfx said:


> Why do you need to upgrade to 3" maf housing?


It's all part of the equation in tricking a tuned k03s file to run well on the stuff, without it I could not get the car to idle right or pull steady at partial throttle. Upgrading the MAF causes an additional ignition timing advance, besides obviously being able to flow better.

E-85 on Long Island, NY is currently around $3.30 a gallon near me, which is over a dollar cheaper than 93 

My car is still running extremely solid, been over a year since converting and I am still basically running on the parameters listed in my DIY.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm still running a stock maf housing and got the idle and startup nearly perfect, but I will upgrade to 3" proly will solve rest of my problems. I mean the a/f is good .82 @ boost all way to redline bumped up timing by 5 degrees 5k + under full load when boost starts tapering off to make a lil bit more top end. Raised boost and iats are lower and no more timing pulls I think I like it!


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

Hey Jeff,
Here is a few crappy cell pics of my settings that I was suppose to send you a while ago. I am posting it on your thread instead of your inbox so everyone could have access to it :beer:. 

I am autocrossing with the NYR SCCA at the Coliseum this weekend, maybe you can come and play ?



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

madmax199 said:


> Hey Jeff,
> Here is a few crappy cell pics of my settings that I was suppose to send you a while ago. I am posting it on your thread instead of your inbox so everyone could have access to it :beer:.
> 
> I am autocrossing with the NYR SCCA at the Coliseum this weekend, maybe you can come and play ?


You have some interesting fuel tweaks going on there. I'm going to have to play around a little bit and see what happens. Something went bad with my car today, misfiring on all 4 cylinders under load, and lots of hesitation. Ugh


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

4ceFed4 said:


> You have some interesting fuel tweaks going on there. I'm going to have to play around a little bit and see what happens. Something went bad with my car today, misfiring on all 4 cylinders under load, and lots of hesitation. Ugh


Maybe failing coilpack? I recently had to change all 4 to cure a misfire under load (the same one I was suffering at WF) What plugs are you running?


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

madmax199 said:


> Maybe failing coilpack? I recently had to change all 4 to cure a misfire under load (the same one I was suffering at WF) What plugs are you running?


I'm running BKR7Es. Already tried replacing the coil packs and no dice. Might bring the car to ForceFed some time this week.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

4ceFed4 said:


> I'm running BKR7Es. Already tried replacing the coil packs and no dice. Might bring the car to ForceFed some time this week.


You should move to iridium 8 heat range. I have been running them since I switched to E85 and never had a problem (I even got Doug into them with his BT car since he was having trouble with the 7s also). With the copper 7Es, I would have to gap them really tight (.020) to stop the misfire under load, or gap them wider to cure the idling misfire and not been able to go WOT without the hesitation.

I have a used set at home (still good) that you can try, and see if it makes a difference or cure the problem. PM me and we can meet up to slap them on, before you go see Ed.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I'm running 7s Gapped at .026 and they are fine


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

Make sure you did not get a bad tank of E85. It happens, when ti is water contaminated you will get misfires bad.

I had a bad tank and drove 1/2 of it off under extra light vacuum then went 93 for a bit until they refilled.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> Make sure you did not get a bad tank of E85. It happens, when ti is water contaminated you will get misfires bad.
> 
> I had a bad tank and drove 1/2 of it off under extra light vacuum then went 93 for a bit until they refilled.


Very good point :thumbup:
I usually test the few pumps that I use regularly, maybe you need to start checking the pump you use if it turns out to be the problem. We can take a sample of what's in your fuel tank and test it, if you decide to come by and try the iridium plugs.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

If you're around tomorrow maybe I can swing by late afternoon. PM me your cell # and I'll give you a ring. Thanks for offering your help.

I've been running 7Es gapped to .028 for a year and a half no with no problems what-so-ever until now. I just filled up the tank recently, so the bad gas theory may be a possibility. The weird part is that the exhaust note sounds normal during accel/decel, just feel a bad vibration under load.


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## abacorrado (Apr 5, 2005)

How do you test the e85?


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

4ceFed4 said:


> If you're around tomorrow maybe I can swing by late afternoon. PM me your cell # and I'll give you a ring. Thanks for offering your help.
> 
> I've been running 7Es gapped to .028 for a year and a half no with no problems what-so-ever until now. I just filled up the tank recently, so the bad gas theory may be a possibility. The weird part is that the exhaust note sounds normal during accel/decel, just feel a bad vibration under load.


I'll be around this afternoon, I'm going to send you a PM right now with the address and my cell number so you could text me the time you plan on coming.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

abacorrado said:


> How do you test the e85?


Simple, a graduated cylinder with a preset volume that you fill with water. The rest of the cylinder is then marked 0-100% after the water line, based on it's volume. You then add Ethanol to another volume line and shake it. The water and ethanol will mix together and the gas portion will separate and sit at the top. Since you already know the amount of water that was mixed in the ethanol, you can accurately find the ethanol content in percentage.

They sell these ethanol content graduated cylinders with the lines already marked but I like to play mad scientist in my garage and made my own. I used a bigger clear can that makes pouring, mixing, and reading the content easier and more accurate.

*This is what the one they sell online look like*

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## tedgram (Jul 2, 2005)

Max, do you have any charts from when you were running gas? See you are only setting fuel to 15% on increasing load and 5% on primary fuel but 125% on secondary. I though 100% was base setting. I was trying to add the extra fuel to the 100%.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

tedgram said:


> Max, do you have any charts from when you were running gas? See you are only setting fuel to 15% on increasing load and 5% on primary fuel but 125% on secondary. I though 100% was base setting. I was trying to add the extra fuel to the 100%.


I don't have any setting save from when I ran on conventional gas but I will explain the setting. The primary fuel channel is additive and add fuel to the entire fuel map at the same rate or percentage. Say you want to increase fuel everywhere on the AFR curve, that is what you use.

The fuel enrichment under load is multiplicative and add more fuel as the load increases. For example, I had a nasty taper (2 full AFR points from midrange to redline) with the preset 100% value. Dropping it to 15% stabilized my fuel curve consistantly, now I get 12.5 tapering to 12.0 all day long.

The secondary channel is the tricky one, if you are running OEM injectors, I suggest leaving this channel alone. If you run bigger than stock injectors, you may need to increase this channel to improve their response.
The 15% increase from the OEM default of 100% works well for the 630 cc injectors I run.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

Max, I could just never get my car running right trying to emulate your settings. I need to get some more dyno time with a wideband A/F and see what's really going on.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

4ceFed4 said:


> Max, I could just never get my car running right trying to emulate your settings. I need to get some more dyno time with a wideband A/F and see what's really going on.


Yeah, you need to have a good wideband to really figure out what's going on with your fueling and fully take advantage of the settings wherever applicable.

OT: (I'm thinking about heading out to NNJR autocross at the meadowlands this weekend, text me if you're down).


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

madmax199 said:


> Yeah, you need to have a good wideband to really figure out what's going on with your fueling and fully take advantage of the settings wherever applicable.
> 
> OT: (I'm thinking about heading out to NNJR autocross at the meadowlands this weekend, text me if you're down).


I lost your number, the phone I had when we met completely died. I am all registered for this Saturday, let me know if you want to cruise over there together bright and early


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## tedgram (Jul 2, 2005)

Thanks Max, I'm running 550CC injectors. My AFR starts at 13.75 and is 15.09 at 6500rpm. Fuel pressure increases don't seem to change it.


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## madmax199 (Oct 28, 2009)

tedgram said:


> Thanks Max, I'm running 550CC injectors. My AFR starts at 13.75 and is 15.09 at 6500rpm. Fuel pressure increases don't seem to change it.


Wow, provided you are not getting these readings from a narrowband sensor, that is super lean even for ethanol. I am going to give you a few setting changes to get you started but you will have to do some logging/tweaking to make it perfect. 

-Add 10-15% to the primary fuel channel (additive)

-Remove a good 75% off the enrichment under load (multiplicative) to get rid of the taper in the AFR curve.

Your new setting should be 115% on the primary and 25% on the enrichment under load. If you still have adaptation, drive around a little bit before you make your next round of tweaking.


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## tedgram (Jul 2, 2005)

I am getting those readings from a narrow band sensor through my ECU with a Liquid. Played around a little this week end trying to get the 550cc injectors to work with my K04. Drivablilty was fine with no settings on the 200 mile drive to the track but I was getting -24.1 fuel in vag-com field 032 and acceleration was slow and I was getting a cell for too rich. Turned channel 02 to 50% & 6 advance and acceleration was better but not good 032 was -18% and cell for too rich. I tried 35% then 37.5% and got missfire above 5.5k but 032 showed -6% and I got a cell for too lean. I gave up put my 386cc injectors back in increased fuel pressure from 3 to 4 bar set Limmiwinks to only 3 advance ran 148 mph 032 showed -6% after 3 runs and no cell even after the 200 mile trip home. 
Thanks will try those settings when I have time.

PS: Just took 032 reading 0.2 & 0.0 after 200 mile drive home!


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## rains (May 30, 2008)

great DIY :thumbup:

Too bad I can't find e85 anywhere near me. At All


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Added to the FAQ


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

groggory said:


> Added to the FAQ


Thanks! I think another moderator put it in the FAQ right after I posted it up though


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

4ceFed4 said:


> Thanks! I think another moderator put it in the FAQ right after I posted it up though


I've been building up a seperate FAQ that is organized very differently than the old FAQ. Much more BT friendly.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Great to see this great thread back from the dead!

Jeff, where you ever able to optimize your timing to fully take advantage of E85?


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> Great to see this great thread back from the dead!
> 
> Jeff, where you ever able to optimize your timing to fully take advantage of E85?


I think I have everything nailed down pretty good now. I am in the process of installing a wide band and an EGT gauge, curious to see how everything performs with some further optimization


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Hey man nice write up! Good to see outside the box thinking


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## bl33su (Jun 15, 2010)

just to clarify... once setup with the settings and hardware.. can you still fill up with 98/95/93? say you were running low on petrol and needed abit to get to nearest E85 pump?

or is there a way to run 2 maps with a switch? lol


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

bl33su said:


> just to clarify... once setup with the settings and hardware.. can you still fill up with 98/95/93? say you were running low on petrol and needed abit to get to nearest E85 pump?
> 
> or is there a way to run 2 maps with a switch? lol


You can easily switch back and forth between E85 and petrol, but it requires hooking up a laptop at the fueling station and changing from one Unisettings profile to another. It would be nice to have a true FlexFuel vehicle, where the car "senses" and changes maps automatically, or even have a handheld switch controller like GIAC and REVO offer.


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

4ceFed4 said:


> You can easily switch back and forth between E85 and petrol, but it requires hooking up a laptop at the fueling station and changing from one Unisettings profile to another. It would be nice to have a true FlexFuel vehicle, where the car "senses" and changes maps automatically, or even have a handheld switch controller like GIAC and REVO offer.


That'd be cool if someone took a little box and built it using raspberry Pi. Then got something like Unitune running on it to push the updates (under linux) with a little 3 or 4 button interface.

Eh, too much work for me. lol.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

groggory said:


> That'd be cool if someone took a little box and built it using raspberry Pi. Then got something like Unitune running on it to push the updates (under linux) with a little 3 or 4 button interface.
> 
> Eh, too much work for me. lol.


I don't see a real practical point to this to warrant all the trouble. It literally takes 30 seconds to flash a different Unisetting profile and cycle the ignition. If switching profiles on the fly was needed, I could see the point but switching fuel requires for you to make a stop anyway.


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## bl33su (Jun 15, 2010)

switching maps would be easy if you had a small laptop you can leave in the car and mini tablet which can run Unisettings or lemmiwinks... 

would the car run fine with the bigger injectors on a chipped 1.8t?


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## groggory (Apr 21, 2003)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I don't see a real practical point to this to warrant all the trouble. It literally takes 30 seconds to flash a different Unisetting profile and cycle the ignition. If switching profiles on the fly was needed, I could see the point but switching fuel requires for you to make a stop anyway.


I agree, I just thought it'd be neat/funny/whatever.

Pull out the laptop and reprogram while you're filling up. :thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

groggory said:


> I agree, I just thought it'd be neat/funny/whatever.
> 
> Pull out the laptop and reprogram while you're filling up. :thumbup:


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## dubinprogress (Apr 9, 2006)

Great thread. :thumbup:

Do any of you guys who cannot get E85 locally have a buddy that makes Moonshine?? Serious making Ethanol is actually easy if you have access to a still. I have a friend who has a Big Block Chevy and I have helped him make fuel for his car. He runs stand alone and runs either E100, E85, or pump gas if need be. I know this sounds pretty crazy but if you have access to the raw materials you can have fuel for about $1.45 a gallon. An ATF Fuel Distiller's Permit is not hard to obtain in most places. If I had more space to distill on a large scale I would convert all of my vehicles over right away. But I can only speak for my access to equipment and materials as it would be much more expensive for some people..


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

dubinprogress said:


> Great thread. :thumbup:
> 
> Do any of you guys who cannot get E85 locally have a buddy that makes Moonshine?? Serious making Ethanol is actually easy if you have access to a still. I have a friend who has a Big Block Chevy and I have helped him make fuel for his car. He runs stand alone and runs either E100, E85, or pump gas if need be. I know this sounds pretty crazy but if you have access to the raw materials you can have fuel for about $1.45 a gallon. An ATF Fuel Distiller's Permit is not hard to obtain in most places. If I had more space to distill on a large scale I would convert all of my vehicles over right away. But I can only speak for my access to equipment and materials as it would be much more expensive for some people..


Our friend and pioneer in the EVO world David Bushur makes his own ethanol. This thread has answers to all your questions.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/altern...charging-misc-projects-finally-under-way.html


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## VWunion Chad (Dec 13, 2010)

im curious how much different the settings would be with a gt2871R


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## VWunion Chad (Dec 13, 2010)

Anyone done this on a big turbo?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

VWunion Chad said:


> im curious how much different the settings would be with a gt2871R


I don't think they'd be any different. Maybe it would call for a bit more boldness than Steve's setting, in terms of timing advance since it wouldn't be spitting hot air like the stock turbos do.

The 630 cc injectors would not cut it though on a gt2871 running E85.


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## VWunion Chad (Dec 13, 2010)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I don't think they'd be any different. Maybe it would call for a bit more boldness than Steve's setting, in terms of timing advance since it wouldn't be spitting hot air like the stock turbos do.
> 
> The 630 cc injectors would not cut it though on a gt2871 running E85.


i have some 1260cc injectors ready to go


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> I don't think they'd be any different. Maybe it would call for a bit more boldness than Steve's setting, in terms of timing advance since it wouldn't be spitting hot air like the stock turbos do.
> 
> The 630 cc injectors would not cut it though on a gt2871 running E85.


yea no way... i was at like 85% IDC on stock turbo and 630s w/ E85


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

theswoleguy said:


> yea no way... i was at like 85% IDC on stock turbo and 630s w/ E85


I ran 22 psi at 96% Idc on my 50 trim


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## gdoggmoney (Feb 21, 2004)

theswoleguy said:


> yea no way... i was at like 85% IDC on stock turbo and 630s w/ E85


630's on a 50trim or 3071/76 is enough for about 2gals of E85 in your full tank to cool things down a bit.


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## VWunion Chad (Dec 13, 2010)

I'm not worried about injector size I have 1260s I'm curious if the unisettings are the same


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

gdoggmoney said:


> 630's on a 50trim or 3071/76 is enough for about 2gals of E85 in your full tank to cool things down a bit.


I've ran my 840s without fuel cuts to 25 psi on my 50 trim now 18-25psi on my gr3076 but gonna upgrade to 1550s 11.8 afr all te way thru too


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

codergfx said:


> I've ran my 840s without fuel cuts to 25 psi on my 50 trim now 18-25psi on my gr3076 but gonna upgrade to 1550s 11.8 afr all te way thru too


Hopefully 11.8 AFR is on a gasoline converted scale, otherwise you're in trouble :sly:

I'm in the process of wiring up my innovate mtx-l. You can adjust it to read e85, lpg, methanol, you name it. You can even import custom scales and warnings. Should be fun to start running logs and getting things more dialed in.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

4ceFed4 said:


> Hopefully 11.8 AFR is on a gasoline converted scale, otherwise you're in trouble :sly:
> 
> I'm in the process of wiring up my innovate mtx-l. You can adjust it to read e85, lpg, methanol, you name it. You can even import custom scales and warnings. Should be fun to start running logs and getting things more dialed in.


Of course gasoline scale no reason to go e85 scale since factory o2 reads gasoline anyways


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

codergfx said:


> no reason to go e85 scale since factory o2 reads gasoline anyways


 I thought it read lambda?


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Here is a seasonal State by State breakdown ethanol blends. I may only show minimum requirements but gives a good picture of what you get as a worst case scenario. I would not use this as a reason to stop regular alcohol content testing but it's a good baseline. I thought it would be a good contribution to this thread! :beer:

Summer Blend: Class 1 (min 79% ethanol) 
Spring/Fall Blend: Class 2 (min 74% ethanol) 
Winter Blend: Class 3 (min 70% ethanol) 
State Fuel Region Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec 


Alabama 2 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
Alaska Southern Region 3 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 3 
Alaska South Mainland 3 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 3 
Arizona North of 34 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Arizona South of 34 latitude 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
Arkansas 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
California North Coast 2 2 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
California South Coast 2 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
California Southeast 3 3/2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
California Interior 2 2 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
Colorado East of 105 longitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Colorado West of 105 longitude 3 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1/2 2/3 3 3 3 
Connecticut 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Delaware 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
DC 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Florida North of 29 latitude 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
Florida South of 29 latitude 2 2 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 
Georgia 3 3 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 
Hawaii 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 
Idaho 3 3 3 3/2 2 2 2/1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Illinois North of 40 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Illinois South of 40 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Indiana 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Iowa 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Kansas 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Kentucky 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Louisiana 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
Maine 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Maryland 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Massachusetts 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Michigan Lower Peninsula 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Michigan Upper Peninsula 3 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Minnesota 3 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Mississippi 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
Missouri 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Montana 3 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1/2 2/3 3 3 3 
Nebraska 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Nevada North of 38 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2 2/1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Nevada South of 38 latitude 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
New Hampshire 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
New Jersey 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
New Mexico North of 34 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
New Mexico South of 34 latitude 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 
New York North of 42 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
New York South of 42 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
North Carolina 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
North Dakota 3 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Ohio 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Oklahoma 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Oregon East of 122 longitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2 2/1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Oregon West of 122 longitude 3 3/2 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2 2 2/3 
Pennsylvania North of 41 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Pennsylvania South of 41 latitude 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Rhode Island 3 3 3 3/2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
South Carolina 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
South Dakota 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Tennessee 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Texas North of 31 latitude 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Texas South of 31 latitude 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2 
Utah 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Vermont 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Virginia 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 
Washington East of 122 longitude 3 3 3/2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2/3 3 3 
Washington West of 122 longitude 3 3/2 2 2 2 2/1 1 1 1/2 2 2 2/3 
West Virginia 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Wisconsin 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3 
Wyoming 3 3 3 3 3/2 2 2/1 1/2 2 2/3 3 3


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

so all i read is blah blah blah E75 and should be approached as such.... 

 except here in GA that is like E80 all year around. Good find, now to actually do ethanol test on the fuel at a station you will frequent to confirm its good fuel and not trash...

:beer:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

theswoleguy said:


> so all i read is blah blah blah E75 and should be approached as such....
> 
> except here in GA that is like E80 all year around. Good find, now to actually do ethanol test on the fuel at a station you will frequent to confirm its good fuel and not trash...
> 
> :beer:


As I purposely mentioned, it's not meant to replace routine content testing at the pump. This just gives you an idea of the State issued minimum requirements. If say you tune for your state minimum, you've got yourself a decent baseline instead of doing things blindly. I religiously test my fuel at the pump and I know which local pump gives me what. But for the guy starting on ethanol without a mean to test regularly, this could be very helpful. :beer:


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## theswoleguy (Jan 25, 2006)

Marcus_Aurelius said:


> As I purposely mentioned, it's not meant to replace routine content testing at the pump. This just gives you an idea of the State issued minimum requirements. If say you tune for your state minimum, you've got yourself a decent baseline instead of doing things blindly. I religiously test my fuel at the pump and I know which local pump gives me what. But for the guy starting on ethanol without a mean to test regularly, this could be very helpful. :beer:


oh hell yea no doubt, thats with any station i try to only buy fuel at a local BP that I consistantly visit. Same iwth the diesel, i found a place with the cleanest fuel and least water.


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