# TDI 5th Gear Swap



## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

I searched, so I don't want to hear about searching








Has anyone on here swapped a TDI 5th-gear into their 2.0 tranny? I'm thinking of doing it for an increase in fuel mileage. What kind of mileage are you guys getting?
Thanks!
SMG


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## reynolds9000 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (SomeMacGuy)*

Unless you're running a close ratio transmission, such as a 2Y, 9A, 4K, AGB, etc, it's not really going to make that much of a difference. 
Not really cost effective, imo.


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (reynolds9000)*

I hear you can cruise at 80mph at 2200 RPMs on a 1.8T.
I run about 3200rpm's around there. Sounds like it would make a difference.


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## reynolds9000 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (SomeMacGuy)*

ahhhh you've got an AEG 2.0. 
I can't help you.


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## reynolds9000 (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (reynolds9000)*

FYI, i have a .75 5th gear in my 2Y. It's the OEM 5th gear for Mk3 transmission, the 2Y is a 16 close ratio tranny.
The tall 5th is great for highway cruising but around town driving it can become a PITA. In order to even shift into 5th, i have to be at at least 3k in 4th. If i'm in a 50mph zone, with traffic, i'm constantly shifting between 4th and 5th, whereas with my stock mk3 tranny, i could stay in 5th the whole time...


_Modified by reynolds9000 at 6:06 AM 4-9-2006_


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## Geoffrey69 (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (SomeMacGuy)*

I just did this swap yesterday. The ride is much more comfortable. I'm now running about 3450RPM @ 80mph, as opposed to 3800. I already get ~420 miles on 13.4 gallons, but I'm driving 80 miles each way on the highway. I'll report later on the mileage improvement, but the TDI guys say they see about 1/2 the improvement (so 10% RPM drop roughly equates to 5% mpg increase).
One glitch I'm trying to find information for, is that when in 5th Gear, when I let off the gas, the shifter toggles (just a tiny bit). And when I give the car gas, it toggles in the other direction (just a tiny bit). I'm wondering if anyone else that has made this swap experience this? Is it just part of the swap, or could it be the selector? Is it going to be bad news over time?


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## JBraga (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (SomeMacGuy)*

im also looking into doing this. 5th gear simply sucks..its pretty much the same as 4th gear. driving on the highway at 120km at around 4000rpm. 
btw..how much did the swap cost you?


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (Geoffrey69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoffrey69* »_One glitch I'm trying to find information for, is that when in 5th Gear, when I let off the gas, the shifter toggles (just a tiny bit). And when I give the car gas, it toggles in the other direction (just a tiny bit). I'm wondering if anyone else that has made this swap experience this? Is it just part of the swap, or could it be the selector? Is it going to be bad news over time?

Basically known as more mechanical advantage... the taller 5th means that there is more leverage against the engine mounts... Shouldn't be much to worry about, except I would think about replacing the OEM mounts with newer *slightly* stiffer mounts.


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## Geoffrey69 (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (JBraga)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBraga* »_im also looking into doing this. 5th gear simply sucks..its pretty much the same as 4th gear. driving on the highway at 120km at around 4000rpm. 
btw..how much did the swap cost you?

The gears cost me $125 (they had more mileage than others for sale @ $150). I had to buy some Torx Bits & 12-point Bits (about $10). I also bought a new Transmission Seal (which really wasn't needed, but I replaced anyway) and the C-Clips - which was another $30. You shouldn't need to buy the pulleys - just get from Autozone.


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## bajan01 (Nov 26, 2001)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (SomeMacGuy)*

Feel free to use the spreadsheet below to calc your RPMs for different gears. The "RPM Range" on the right lists 2 numbers. The second number is your upper RPM limit as set in cell A10 and the first number is the RPM at which you will be at after shifting at your RPM limit in the earlier gear. Simply edit the red cells to match your car's specs and go from there. The first sheet is for a CHE tranny (OBD1 Mk3s) and the second is for a close ratio 9A tranny








http://216.74.64.184/jeremy/downloads/mph.xls


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## wishihada18t (Apr 24, 2004)

*Re: TDI 5th Gear Swap (JBraga)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBraga* »_im also looking into doing this. 5th gear simply sucks..its pretty much the same as 4th gear. driving on the highway at 120km at around 4000rpm. 
btw..how much did the swap cost you?

in my 99.5 aeg 140 kmh is 4100 rpm and 120 kmh is about 35-3600 rpm. is there differently geared tranny's that came with the 2.0l ?


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## MetroBrian (Jun 7, 2005)

Im fairly new to this, but on the highway im typically cruzing at about 80-90. Thats like 3500-4000. What 5th can I buy to place in my MK3 020 trans.
Brian


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## vasillalov (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: (MetroBrian)*

Fellas, I think you are missing the point of the 2.0 5th gear. The rpms are high as to keep the engine breathing well and be always in passing rpms. I would not even consider a TDI 5th gear because the rpms will be too low for me. 
My comfort speed on the highway is between 80 and 90 mph. At those speeds I don't have to downshift to get maximum acceleration. At 3800 rpms, all I have to tap on the gas pedal and the b!tch takes off! No hessitation, instant response! If my rpms were lower, I would have to down-shift.
Now, just so you know, my ex GF has a 2003 TDI. I've driven it many times and its gearing is perfect. But those rpms will not work well for the AEG in my opinion.
As fat as the fuel economy goes, @ 80 mph I am getting easy 32-34 mpg. 5% fuel increase on 32mpg will be 1.6 miles/per/gallon. For me, I'd rather sacrifice 1.6 mpg than having to downshift each time I want to get max acceleration at 80mph...


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## Geoffrey69 (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: (vasillalov)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vasillalov* »_Fellas, I think you are missing the point of the 2.0 5th gear. The rpms are high as to keep the engine breathing well and be always in passing rpms. I would not even consider a TDI 5th gear because the rpms will be too low for me. 
My comfort speed on the highway is between 80 and 90 mph. At those speeds I don't have to downshift to get maximum acceleration. At 3800 rpms, all I have to tap on the gas pedal and the b!tch takes off! No hessitation, instant response! If my rpms were lower, I would have to down-shift.
Now, just so you know, my ex GF has a 2003 TDI. I've driven it many times and its gearing is perfect. But those rpms will not work well for the AEG in my opinion.
As fat as the fuel economy goes, @ 80 mph I am getting easy 32-34 mpg. 5% fuel increase on 32mpg will be 1.6 miles/per/gallon. For me, I'd rather sacrifice 1.6 mpg than having to downshift each time I want to get max acceleration at 80mph...

I drive 80mph on the highway, as well. Even @ 3450 RPM, I still have plenty of "get up and go". I don't need to downshift. The car is still well within it's powerband. I was getting 31+ mpg prior to this change. If you're getting 32-34, I'd be curious to know about your driving habits (so I can incorporate some).


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## vasillalov (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: (Geoffrey69)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Geoffrey69* »_I drive 80mph on the highway, as well. Even @ 3450 RPM, I still have plenty of "get up and go". I don't need to downshift. The car is still well within it's powerband. I was getting 31+ mpg prior to this change. If you're getting 32-34, I'd be curious to know about your driving habits (so I can incorporate some).

Some people would laugh, but I've picked up extra 2-3 mpg by switching from Mobil 1 0W-40 SuperSynth to Valvoline Synpower 5W-40. I keep my air filter always clean and I run 89 octane. In the city I shift between 3000-4700 rpms and on the highway I drive between 80-90 mph. That's it...


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## Geoffrey69 (Jan 30, 2006)

*Re: (vasillalov)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vasillalov* »_
Some people would laugh, but I've picked up extra 2-3 mpg by switching from Mobil 10W-40 SuperSynth to Valvoline Synpower 5W-40. I keep my air filter always clean and I run 89 octane. In the city I shift between 3000-4700 rpms and on the highway I drive between 80-90 mph. That's it...

I also run 89 octane, and shift about the same as you. I just switched to a Synth/Oil combination about 2000 miles ago. I did notice when I put my K&N filter in, that bumped me about 1 mpg (from 30 to 31).
Anyone else got any suggestions as to my shifter concern?


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: (Geoffrey69)*

Bump for an old post!
2 years later with the increased cost of fuel.. What do you guys think about this mod?


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Personally, I wouldn't bother with it even thought I have thought about it a while ago.
I drive highway all the time, 80km round trip 5x a week for work, I always cruise at 120kmh or so, and notice that from what other people say my 2000 AEG runs lower in the RPMs at given speeds. I will check next time I go out but I think 100km/h=~3100 rpm.
And I still manage on average 33-35mpgs








vasillilov makes a good point up there with the torque range of that gear.


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

So I checked my RPMs at a few speeds in 5th gear on my way to work today.
From what I could tell when I had access to VESIS and the Bentley there are quite a few different 5th gear ratios for 02J transmissions on VR6/1.8T/2.0/TDI, and it's possible they may be mixed and matched anywhere through the mk4 models. I think I got one of the lower ones.
100kmh/~60mph Just a hair under 3000rpm
112kmh/70mph 3100 rpm
120Kmh/75mph 3500 rpm
140kmh/87mph ~4150


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## SMG8vT (Oct 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Jay-Bee)*

My car is ~3200RPM's at 120km/h.


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## chicago_audi (Nov 11, 2004)

I'd like to know what transmission you have. On my pre-swap 2000 Jetta 5 spd AEG 70 mph was right around 3500 rpm. I did the swap w/a tdi 5th gear and it brought it down to around 3K rpm.

3 or 4 years ago my boss and I drove 180 miles to do some work at a remove office. The next week I did the swap. Two weeks later we made the trip again on the same highway.
But this time as we were driving I started hearing this weird roaring noise. Looked at my dash expecting to see some idiot light lit, maybe I did not tighten the transmission gasket correctly ..????

What it turned out to be was that the highway had rain grooves in it and the first trip my engine was making so much noise we could not hear them.
On the second trip we could.

I am getting ready to do the swap on a 2004 Jetta wagon I bought last week and I expect I will enjoy it just as much.

Take photos ... take photos ... take photos ... 




Jay-Bee said:


> So I checked my RPMs at a few speeds in 5th gear on my way to work today.
> From what I could tell when I had access to VESIS and the Bentley there are quite a few different 5th gear ratios for 02J transmissions on VR6/1.8T/2.0/TDI, and it's possible they may be mixed and matched anywhere through the mk4 models. I think I got one of the lower ones.
> 100kmh/~60mph Just a hair under 3000rpm
> 112kmh/70mph 3100 rpm
> ...


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## xxremy (Apr 28, 2011)

i was interested on swaping a newer model mk4 trans w 6spd in my 2000 jetta. is this swap possible?
my trans has the car at 3000rpms at 60 mph. hate even driving on the thruways bc of this.


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

chicago_audi said:


> Take photos ... take photos ... take photos ...


Sorry chicago, posted that years ago when I had ETKA and VESIS running.

xxremy the 6 speed out of the 2004.5 Jetta GLI 1.8T will bolt on to a 2.0, but last I knew they still ran about a grand each, plus you would need to swap quite a bit more than just the trans.

Get the TDI 5th, a 6th gear won't fix you, it will actually make it worse and take you way out of the 2.0 powerband.


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