# S3 - Stock vs Stage 1 vs Stage 2 vs Golf R vs Tesla P85d



## WhyFly (Sep 30, 2007)

For 16 months and 10,200 miles I drove the S3 in stock mode, and each mile was as relished as the next. The refinement, poise, power and the growl from the engine as all mechanical components worked in harmony was superlative, addictive. I have written a detailed overview on the stock S3 during my European Delivery from Ingolstadt and the subsequent drives in US. 

The stock stats are impressive as 292 bhp and a 0-62 time of 4.8 seconds is nothing at which to scoff yet the reviews from tuned GTIs, Golf Rs and S3s repeatedly beckoned me into the twilight zone. These VWVortex, Audizine and Fortitude forums were littered with the APR, Unitronic, UM, GIAC and Revo tune experiences, disasters and questions, and I went through all of them. Unbelievable power increase – you will never come home, followed by a plethora of OMGs, holy shi*s and endless expletives. And then there were the videos of rolling starts and drag races with claims of 3.2 – 3.4 seconds on 0-60 and 11 something quarter miles. What did a sub 4 second car feel like? I just had to know. 

Know this, I was and still am petrified of the dreaded TD1 flag. So I researched some more and called every tune shop and dealer in a 50 mile radius. I didn’t need to know bhp increments or performance for the tune websites and individual dyno runs gave a more than detailed account of that.

No, I wanted to know how many blown turbos, check engine lights, electric gremlins, and slipped clutches were caused by various stages of the tune. Furthermore, what were the challenges of a warranty repair of a tuned car? Are there any friendly dealerships for Audi? I know that VW has an endless list but even if the dealership is mod friendly, what guarantee would their promise hold in the event VW Corporate detected the tune and declined the coverage? 

The final answer is NO guarantee. 

Lastly, what was the best combination if I were to choose Stage 1? Every tune shop and dealership said Stage 1 was the safest and not a single car was returned due to a tune fault. But then again, they would say that to make the sale – wouldn’t they?

August 20th 2016 – APR Stage 1 + CAI
$460.00 – CAI
$799.00 Stage 1
$50 Labor
1100 miles

Based on feedback this was the safest and mildest tune option. An 80bhp increase they call mild. I paid the necessary monies upfront and had the CAI delivered and then showed up for the work to be done at Eurotech Motorsports in Mawah NJ. Now, this is no ordinary tune shop as my eyes settled on work in progress on an R10, Godzilla, 360 Modena, 911 GT3, Cayman GTS, a Bentley something and a Golf R to name a few. 

Stage 2 is really where you want to be everyone whispered. No thanks, I replied – I will not risk it. Rather I will stay at the safest level. 
The tech at Eurotech Motorsports did mention that it will take a drive of about 8 hours for the ECU to learn the new tune and the engine to belt out its best. So I hunkered down and took off into the Harriman State Park twisties with the intention to cut loose. Yet, I was so petrified that the tune would break something that my first launch control was halfhearted at best yet still produced more thrust than stock. 

Nonetheless within the first hour, there was noticeable urge but it wasn’t until the end of the second tank of petrol did I really realize how fast a scalded cat can bolt into the horizon. The launch control finally held menace in that I became apprehensive every time I took off for fear that I would break the car, run over a rabbit, a deer or even a human simply because of the brutal acceleration this car can muster. 

Drive below 3000 rpm and this could be an A3 for you all you know. So what then is the fuss all about? Spin the engine to 3000 revs and you will see the light – the light that seemed far far away at the end of the tunnel that suddenly smacks you in the face and before you know it, the DSG has upshifted and the relentless push in the seat continues well past any speed limit the US has. Anything above 3000 revs and this car reeled in the horizons at a menacing pace and the previous benchmark of 50-70 which took 4 seconds now took 2.5. That is immense.

I repeatedly visited Harriman State Park for endless 2nd and 3rd gear acceleration runs only to return with serious headaches caused by the sheer g-forces this car put me through on perfect spaghetti roads. My wife never sympathized because she said I was a lightweight who couldn’t handle my own concoction. Stick to a Ford Pinto she said. 

And after months of search at long last, I finally swapped seats with a driver of a stock 2016 Manual Golf R. So there it was, the mighty R – the car no dealer would allow me to drive. The feel was electric and I took off, my own S3 belted past me and stayed ahead. The R did drive just that little bit better and the steering was certainly more talkative but after a Stage 1 S3, it did feel significantly sterile. I also felt, to my disappointment, that that I had outgrown the R because the interior and exterior of the S3 is unfussed, more mature and charismatic. Also, without the options of my S3, the R seemed a rather base model and as good as the manual was, I missed both hands on the wheel with lightening up and down DSG shifts. Nonetheless the R was a great drive and I came out with smiles. A Stage 1 R would have been an equal challenge but to find one is a big ask. 

The R’s driver delayed the handover of my S3 keys and chose the long route home because he also wanted to soak in the Stage 1 and couldn’t understand how a simple tune could make such a difference.

The only Stage 1 downside was slightly more pronounced turbo lag which for me was rather noticeable. Even though the subsequent boost more than made up for it, I found that lag was to my annoyance and I searched for ways to eliminate it. 
And if Stage 1 was this badass, just how much more would be Stage 2? I had to know. 

September 3rd 2016 Tesla P85d
50 moving parts in total – said the salesman with a puffed out chest. No engine, gears or exhaust. Just get in and go. The test drive was very eerie in the sense that I was in an overpriced and extremely powerful golf cart. And then there is the autonomous drive which is a truly a stunner. The car drove itself for 2-3 miles without any hands on the steering wheel but I very soon realized this is not for me except perhaps in a traffic jam or as a second car. Despite my desire for a 911, TTRS or an RS4 I will still be a Golf GTI diehard at heart because of how light, nimble and fun to drive the car is. The Tesla is 700lb heavier than a GTI and if you want to visualize that weight, go to the gym and stack 15 45lb plates on the floor. This extra weight makes the Tesla is very heavy and very boring which results in an anesthetized and blunt driving experience. It is also very big, perhaps unnecessarily so but I suppose it needs that size for the battery capacity. 

The integrated technology it has ushered is a watershed moment for people that do not wish to drive and 15-20 years from now or perhaps even sooner, the Model 3 will pick up and drop off your kids to school, drop you and the Mrs of to work, bring the groceries home and then charge itself. For $35,000 and 215 mile range? No wonder almost half a million people have deposited $1500 for the car due next year. The technology is amazing but I can get that in my iPad, Macbook Pro and iPhone and smart tv. I do not want it in my car because unlike other drivers, I still want to drive and pull all the levers myself. 

The Tesla’s acceleration is simply jaw dropping as if was set off via a massive slingshot. It just grips and goes with no roar, no exhaust note and no gear change. But it is ultimately boring. I want to drive myself and feel every mechanical component interconnect with each other before the world decides that only ZEVs can be sold. And the sound – I will miss the sound. But the truth is, the internal combustion engine will be dead in our lifetime so enjoy these moments while you can. 

October 14th 2016 APR Stage 2 + Downpipe
$899 Downpipe
$50 Stage 2 labor
800 miles

Now then, I was told the exhaust note would deepen and occasionally I would have to endure the smell of unburnt petrol at idle. But there was the positives of an extra 30 bhp and 40lbs torque and less turbo lag. 

So there it was. My own S3 which I have to come to know so well and yet, didn’t know at all after the most recent cosmetic and intestinal surgery. I turned on the ignition and immediately noticed the menaced growl that emerged from the exhaust not dissimilar to the one from the Ghost and the Darkness. This was delicious and with eager anticipation I proceeded to Harriman State Park again to check out its credentials against Stage 1. With the drive set in dynamic mode the S3 constantly tugged at its leash like a Doberman in a desperate attempt to cut loose and hunt down prey. This I was going to enjoy immensely and I know I would push the S3’s stock mag-ride suspension to its limits at the – BANG – holy dynamite explosion Batman what was that? 

Turns out, I ran over an exposed manhole cover in a construction zone and blew out the front right tire and only just spared my rim. 
No no no not now. This was intolerable cruelty and the irony of the timing didn’t escape me because I now had to take my newly minted Stage 2 S3 to a dealership and get the tire replaced. I wouldn’t be done until nightfall and reality soon set in that Harriman and an open road Stage 2 experience would have to wait for another day. Finally after a weekends wait, 387bhp and 410lbs ft of torque kicked the door down and stared me in the eye. 

And here is the warning about stage 2. Floor the pedal at anything above 2500 at low speeds and you will receive Bruce Lee quality a kick to the stomach as this car erupts like nothing you have ever experienced. It will hit redline in under a second and then do it all over again with relentless pace. Whereas Stage 1 was a tidal wave of power, Stage 2 is an instant blast with minimal lag that will make sure anything that is not tied down will smash into the floor or fly into the rear seat. If your windows and mouth are open, you will swallow a fly or bug straight down the gullet. Your passengers will stop midsentence and if you pay attention you will see the saucer whites of their eyes and hear their whisper of their last prayer as they scramble to hold on to anything they can find. 

As the DSG slams home gear after gear, the scenery starts to blur and you focus on the single goal to keep this missile on the road. If there is time to analyze a gap then there is time to use it and you will be in and out whilst the stunned on-comer flashes an empty stretch of tarmac. All at the same time you are accompanied by the glorious roar of the engine/intake/exhaust and the barp of the tranny upshifts. Good grief this is one crazy car! 911 Turbos less than 6 years ago were barely faster off the mark than this? How is it that I drove for 10k miles and not do this earlier? 

Oh yes, the dreaded TD1 flag and the cost to get to Stage 2. 

In traffic I always restrain myself for fear I will ram into the rear bumper of some unsuspecting victim who pulls out in front of me. Thing is, whereas you may eventually get used to this level of power, other road users will never anticipate just how quick this S3 is. I almost took out a pedestrian at night dressed in black who thought he had ample time and distance to cross the street only to see me close the gap at time warp speeds and subsequently stood there frozen in terror. The same applies to all other drivers as well so be very, very careful. 

Someone best said that this car is similar to a gorilla at peace but when provoked it will truly show you how powerful this creature is so get ready to take down many an unsuspecting M3, STi, muscle car and even the run of the mill 911. 

So, can the engine and transmission handle the extra power? Well the technician at Eurotech MotorSports said he owned an A3 and he would never go past Stage 1 because it does not have the forged internals as the S3 which also has a transmission designed for 400bhp. I was also steered away from a DSG tune because I do not intend to autocross, track or drive in an perpetually aggressive manner. This is a weekend car and with occasional fun, I can enjoy it in occasional but concentrated doses. 

For 1000 miles the S2 S3 has run flawlessly but I feel deep down that this extra wear and tear will show its effect over time and I suppose it’s a price I am willing to pay. There have been no unusual warning lights and nothing has broken or fallen off so my confidence has grown each day. 

At a total cost of $2300 which includes tax from stock to stage 2, was this a smart move? Yes. I love every minute behind the wheel and I feel that this is the car that Audi should have sold me in the first place. 

Should I have done this earlier? No. I am glad I enjoyed stock mode. It gave me time to save up enough money and get the confidence that APR has produced quality software which is properly street tested by early adopters before I risk it on my $55k car. 

Will I go back to stock or buy the RS3? Never. 

RS4 is the next step up for me if it ever becomes available. Till then I will wallop my S3s engine to the max and chase down one s-bend after another. And you will never catch me.


----------



## 2slojetta0L (Dec 15, 2001)

Awesome review! I promised myself that I'd not mod this car as I did my MKV but I'm already itching to do so. I only have 1400 miles and will try to enjoy it as stock but deep down I know I'll at least go stage 1.


----------



## 27turbocars (Jun 26, 2016)

To the OP,

I went from APR stage I to Stage II less than 2 weeks ago and I am still in oh **** mode!! The surge that you get on torque is very noticeable. As long as the car is on boost it feels fast as hell. Acceleration from a roll is phenomenal and I can finally say that the resonator delete is nor really needed because the downpipe provides the extra raspy noise.

I definitely think that the $1000 is well justified. I am 100% convinced that the S3 with stage II is as fast or marginally faster/quicker that the new upcoming RS3 so I agree with you that I am not looking to buy a RS3 anytime soon.


----------



## LilJonny16 (Jan 13, 2009)

Awesome review!!!


----------



## hassenrennen (Jan 5, 2004)

If I were you I would definitely get the DSG tune Stage 1 or 2. You will notice crisper shifting and will compliment the stage 2 tune.


----------



## thehoodz315 (Aug 18, 2014)

Get the DSG tune. I have it on stage 1. The stage 2 tune can slip the DSG transmission and that's going to be a lot more brutal than a TD1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## d1ez3 (Jun 21, 2017)

awesome read!


----------



## The Wiry Irishman (Apr 14, 2016)

I went APR stage 1 on my mk6 GTI at 30,000 miles. Stage 2 at 40,000. At 80,000 I added a k04 turbo with APR software, pushing the horsepower close to double what it was stock. The car is now pushing 180,000 miles. It's been about 95,000 miles since I last had an issue with the car not related to wear parts.

I think you're worrying too much.


----------



## CharlieJr22 (Jan 31, 2012)

Awesome review! My A3 is going to have a similar life as your S3. Most likely I'll be going stage 1 but with Unitronic at H2Oi this year


----------



## eXcelon53 (Jan 7, 2009)

Ummmm, you should 100% be a writer if you are not already! I am thoroughly impressed with this review on so many levels. This was a great read that truly hit home for me. I'm an avid Audi fanatic having owned a fully tuned Stage 2+ 2006 A3 Sportback with just about every bolt on possible (K04, DP, Intake, Runnerflap Delete, RS4 fuel return, APR pump, United Motosport ECU/TCU custom tune, R8 coils, SPM Intercooler etc) to now as of October 2016 owning a 2017 S3. I came into buying the S3 after fighting a losing fight attempting to secure a Tesla Model S. My last loan was in 2007 for $22k and apparently the banks don't care if your credit is good if you've never borrowed $80k before then it's a no. Being very passionate about climate change is tough for performance car fan. I follow Elon Musks every move and have every single intention to own a Tesla car, solar roof, and home battery but at the same time I can't help but finding myself agreeing with you and "enjoying it while it lasts." I LOVE my Audi S3 and I love the sounds it makes, the synchronicity of it's parts working in perfect unison and the way it seems to know what you want when you want it. I'm currently a United Motorsport with the TCU tune and you have convinced me to get the downpipe and forego the RS3. I can't justify spending another $15k on a car that is essentially identical and in stock form slower than what my S3 will be with a downpipe while drinking even more gas. 
I digress, you should be a writer my friend 

:thumbup::thumbup: for the Audi S3


----------



## maizer89 (May 2, 2017)

Man I think my wallet just creeped closer to the computer screen as I was reading this... I'm stage 1 right now with UM and hesitating to get the down pipe and go stage 2 cause my car came with the resonator delete and ive heard cars with downpipe and res delete and it's just too loud. Neighbors and wife would kill me every morning, I used to have a catless e92 m3 and it was promptly sold when I got married


----------



## pinski (Aug 2, 2017)

Great write-up! I appreciate your perspective on the modifications as I think many of us fight that same mental battle and worry about TD1 status. I think you may have encouraged me to pull the trigger sooner rather than later .



maizer89 said:


> Man I think my wallet just creeped closer to the computer screen as I was reading this... I'm stage 1 right now with UM and hesitating to get the down pipe and go stage 2 cause my car came with the resonator delete and ive heard cars with downpipe and res delete and it's just too loud. Neighbors and wife would kill me every morning, I used to have a catless e92 m3 and it was promptly sold when I got married


Hah - likewise. Thinking about the downpipe, does the APR downpipe remove the stock suitcase resonator? On their website, it looks to include a midpipe from the pictures. I'm just not certain if that replaces the resonator or just leads into it. Also not sure if it's included, as it's listed separately further on down, but maybe that's just for folks who have a different downpipe.


----------



## Kretrop (Aug 6, 2014)

d1ez3 said:


> awesome read!


You, sir, are a necromancer.

Not trying to take anything away from the initial post, but you guys realize you're replying to a nearly year-old thread from an author who has a grand total of 2 posts in all of 2017, right? Just making sure that's out there, especially for those of you trying to give this guy advice/feedback


----------



## ExtremePowerhouse - Mike (Dec 16, 2016)

Nice write up, good job:thumbup:


----------



## WhyFly (Sep 30, 2007)

I am grateful for the compliments and feedback and should have expressed my gratitude a lot earlier. I took off to an extended vacation shortly after the post and 3 weeks later upon my return didn't want to bring it to the top with my own comments. So this is an opportune moment as any. 

My wife also comments that I should write professionally but I feel I lack the true depth of knowledge in cars so treat it as a creative hobby. My write-ups can be an exhaustive read especially in this day and age of twitter, sound bites and video so may not be for everyone. And for those that enjoyed it, you have my many thanks for the reply posts and acclamations. 

To follow up almost 10 months later, I am still without a DSG and have driven 4k miles with Stage 2 and nothing has broken or fallen off and I still get apprehensive before I drop the hammer. I relish every minute behind the wheel and push the dynamic mode hard only on the open roads north of New York city for safety reasons. Then again, I am not overtly brutal with the car and drive it occasionally hence am probably not the best subject for S3 S2 reliability tests. I am relieved to have a hook up at my Audi dealership who put the car through the periodic service and state inspection without quibbles. 

I have followed the posts here regularly but haven't blogged simply because I haven't had much to say. Its a delight to observe reactions from new A3/S3 members along with first time tuners. As for the RS3 owners, well I do occasionally envy them as there is definitely something to be said for a 400bhp inline 5 turbo. I shudder to think what Unitronic or APR will extract from that engine. 

We are indeed lucky to own stellar cars. Drive safe.

P.S. My European Delivery Blog with pics. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7161954-S3-European-Delivery-Experience


----------

