# Leaky Injector Seals fixed!! Reason revealed



## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

Just finished replacing my lower fuel injector O-rings. Here is the history up to this point... http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum27/HTML/004335.html. 
I had theorized that the injector O-ring groove was undersized, resulting in loose fit with standard sized O-ring. Measuring the replacement seals VW Part# 06A-906-149, they seamed to me to be oversized in the thickness as compared to the National Standards. The cross section of the new seals measures .110~.112" the NS O-ring should be .101~.105" . Only problem with the theory was I had not changed the O-rings so, couldn't measure the old ones. It is confirmed now, the old leaky ones are built to the National Standards .103" cross section. When I checked them side by side installed on the injectors, the new ones measured .590" outside dia. vs .570" of the original. .020" difference is a hell of a lot on an O-ring this size, it's no supprise they were leaking.
Bottom line is that VW is doing a silent recall of sorts. The dealers are oblivious to it, as well as the general public. If you can get the dealer to replace them under warranty go for it! If not do it yourself, but first check the thickness of the replacements with a Micrometer, they are rubber so it takes some skill, basicly set the mics. to the .112" gap then pass the O-ring thru feel for slight drag. Do the same with the .103" gap, the new ones must measure at least .110" or don't buy them, As I'm sure that the NS standard ones are still floating around in stock. Mine were made in Italy if that helps, and that is the correct Part#!! don't listen to the dealer parts guys opinion. 
Good luck to all, I will keep an eye on mine to make sure they hold up. FYI this is on a AWD engine code with a 06/2000 build date comming out of Brazil.


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## Sheep (Dec 21, 2000)

Alec,
I had "my" mechanic (superb guy especially on VW's and other German cars) replace all my lowers on Friday. I know you posted something one time before about the cross section. We did not check this but the new O-rings did come out of Italy I believe. I haven't gone out to check it yet. Drove 550mi back from Jersey (75+mph on average with couple bursts up to 110) on the new ones so I'll take a peek later today.
He wasn't absolutely positive it was leaky seal the way the area was coated with old fuel but there wasn't a leak from any other place on rail, etc. My #4 was very bad, but the others even showed a small trace of fuel around that black insert in manifold. He was wondering if VW didn't have a problem with that thing...he didn't have the right tool to remove those things so we just went ahead and did the seals.
Mine is AWD also with build of 9/2000. Had emailed you a couple weeks back.


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

Couple of hints for you shade tree mechanics out there, who are going to do the seal change themselves.
1. Wear safety glasses for the dissasembly and cleaning, splashing fuel & cleaner is involed.
2. Tall guys drive your car up on ramps, for a better working hieght.
3. Spread out a clean towel on top of the valve cover, to put O-rings, injectors, bolts and spring clips on. If you drop one into the engine, this 1 hour event could get longer quickly.
4. Unclip the wiring harness from the fuel rail, and all related plugs you can get at. Then you get a clear shot at the 2 bolts that hold on the fuel rail.
5. First unscrew your gas cap, then disconnect the FPR.
6. Pull out the fuelrail with all injectors attached. Be carefull to pull strait out, one corner at a time is easier. You only need to pull it out 1/2", and it's not very tight fit as we allready know.
7. Leave the connectors on the injectors, leave the injectors on the fuel rail. If you have enough slack in the wiring harness, you can pull out the fuel rail far enough to lay it on your towel, atop the valve cover.
8. Clean all the fuel off the injectors, drying off the O-rings and you fingers. Then pinch the O-ring on the injector between you thumb and finger, trying to make a hoop of slack O-ring (use the meditating guru hand position with you palm up) then roll off the hoop with you finger nail. *** Never use any kind of sharp metal objects to try and pick off an O-ring. If you must use a pick try a plasic fork at most.*** Remember the injector is plasic as well.
9. I used some small corks to plug off the injector ports, as I cleaned the surrounding area with RC car electric motor cleaner(plastic safe flavor), carb cleaner would be good for this. Air gun was used to dry up and blow out all debris. Have a rag stuck up under the intake manifold helps to catch fuel and cleaner. Don't get crazy with the cleaner, you don't want that stuff all over your engine bay.
10. Put small oil/grease film in the injector seats and on the new O-ring before installing the injectors again.
Here is another thread with my theory on injector #4 tendency for leaking. http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum27/HTML/004313.html 
No question on where the residue was comming from on my motor. Also fairly positive I won't be having any more leaking for a long time.







It feels like I gained a pound or two of peak boost, and the peace of mind that my motor won't burst into flames.


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## mbuxton (Jan 15, 2001)

So VW Part# 06A-906-149 is what I need to order to fix my seals on my 01 Jetta 1.8T? I have the AWD engine model as well.

Matt


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

Yep, 4pcs only @ $2~$3 ea.


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

TTT
You guys with AWD engines need to take care of this problem, it's dangerous and robs you of your precious boost!
$10 for 2psi is a good deal.


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## slugman (Aug 9, 2000)

*AWW too*

I've noticed a bit of a leak in my AWW too, gotta rememebr to bring it up with the dealer.
-slug


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## Larue (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: AWW too (slugman)*

how can you tell if my fuel injectors are leaking I have an appointment for an oil change and I made up a b.s. excuse to get them to give me a free inspection so I can get a clean bill of health be for I get a chip. still under warrinty


[Modified by Larue, 11:12 AM 8-3-2001]


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## slugman (Aug 9, 2000)

*Re: AWW too (Larue)*

those links aren't quite working but there was a good picture up before, pretty much if you take off your big engine cover and look at the injectors if you see a bunch of gunk around the base then you've got a leak, My leak is on the two to the passenger side.
-sllug


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## Sheep (Dec 21, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

No leaking anymore!!! Quick easy fix. http://****************.com/smile/emsmile.gif


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## GreenVW1.8T (Oct 7, 2000)

I popped open the hood yesterday to find a mouse decided that my engine cover was a nice place to make a nest. While I had the cover off to clean all the garbage my new tennant had left I took a look at my injectors. Yup, number 4 is a winner. I think I'll see if the dealer is going to do the job under warranty first. Anyway thanks Wolks Wagon for all the info.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (GreenVW1.8T)*

After 3 months the quick fix needed to be fixed. The T-tape on the injectors gave way and were leaking on all 4. One thing I did notice is that I had no boost loss, the turbo was compensating by working harder. The turbo whine was getting louder and higher pitched.
After replacing the seal the car gained torque, boost builds up quicker, and the turbo sounds like its working less, producing the same boost. 
Just something to think about, leaks after TB (manifold) if not taken care off may cause the turbo to overspin (premature failure)


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## drm916 (Dec 6, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

I had my injector seals replaced yesterday under warranty....I will be watching them to see if the problem is fixed....Hopefully everything will go good....thanks for the part numbers guys.....


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## GTIski (Mar 27, 2001)

*Leaks*

I have had mine replaced last week.....so far so good ....when I went to my dealer for the first time with this problem the mechanic has told me that it was....get this._> factory wax>http://****************.com/smile/emsmile.gif..
I am scared to take my car for sevice there......When I bought my car they tried to tell me that there is no such part as "DV valve" on the GTI 1.8 T>..
I went to the local VW show last week and checked out 5-6 cars (GTI, Jetta) both chipped-non chipped and they all had the leaking problem.....
Some worse than others...


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## GreenVW1.8T (Oct 7, 2000)

*Re: Leaks (GTIski)*

When I talked to the service advisor about the problem he let me bring in my car without an appointment and I had my car back two days later with new lower and upper O-rings. This was the first time I had gone to this dealer, and they really surprised me with their great service.


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## dhk (Dec 2, 1999)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Great info for all us maintenance-oriented guys. Hard to believe VW installed o-rings .020" undersize. Thanks for the investigation and fix directions!
Dan 00nbglx


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## Golfn'it (Jul 15, 2001)

*Re: (dhk)*

I have a 1.8t with engine code AWW. What performance problems were you experiencing that led you to believe there was an engine problem. Could this be why my car occasionally stalls in the cold weather after starting?


[Modified by Golfn'it, 10:08 PM 8-21-2001]


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## drm916 (Dec 6, 2000)

*Re: (Golfn'it)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have a 1.8t with engine code AWW. What performance problems were you experiencing that led you to believe there was an engine problem. Could this be why my car occasionally stalls in the cold weather after starting?

[Modified by Golfn'it, 10:08 PM 8-21-2001][HR][/HR]​I dought it. I had no noticeable performance issues. Just Yukky stuff around the injectors. However.....I think I might have gotten some boost back after the new seals were installed ( about 1/2 to 1 lb of boost according to the boost gauge)...


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (dhk)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Great info for all us maintenance-oriented guys. Hard to believe VW installed o-rings .020" undersize. Thanks for the investigation and fix directions!
Dan 00nbglx[HR][/HR]​The injectors are undersize, not the O-rings, the O-rings are now special to fit the injectors, and only available through VW/Audi. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Special is bad. 
This easy fix does give gains, and safety(think fireball). http://****************.com/smile/emsmileo.gif


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

If I can get 2 measurments from people with thier Injectors out I can get some good aftermarket injectors that will hold up to 400hp. I need the ouside diameter of the seals, both of them on the injector, and the distance from center of one oring to the center of the next. RC engineering has agreed to help me find injectors for our cars, but I need these measurements. From the first post I assume the outside diameter of the Orings is .590" and a thickness of .110"~.112" Can someone get this last measurement for me? Thanks


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

well, i replaced my lower injector seals today ... definitely can tell it's more snug ... took more effort to snap in the fuel rail. also, visual inspection reveals that the original seals are thinner than the new one.
at least i have some peace of mind ...


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## JettaTypeN (Mar 6, 2001)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

All right, I hate to bring this up again, but I had been looking at all of the posts about leaky injector seals, so I brought my car in today. I had looked around the injectors beforehand and found that there was a reddish stain around each injector. It did not appear wet, just stained. I took the car in today and just got it back. They said there was no leak. "If there was a leak, even very small, you would be able to smell gas," quoteth I of the VW service advisor. Is this the case? Should I be concerned. They cleaned the engine bay up, so I figured I would drive it for a while and then take it back if the stain reappeared. Any comments?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (JettaTypeN)*

What a crock! That dealer has his pants on fire. There is a TSB on the subject. Just keep an eye on it, I can guarantee that in a couple of weeks the stains will be back getting worse. Why? because theyare leaking. You can do one of two things, insist that dealer changes them or spend $13 and do it yourself.


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## 16vracer (Jul 12, 1999)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

I just did mine myself this weekend. The hardest part is getting the 2 bolts back in after you've done everything. After I dropped both of them down by the a/c stuff and couldn't reach them(lucky I had a bunch of extra bolts that matched perfectly). 
Cost me $12.xx and a can of carb cleaner


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

Yea, yea, there pants are on fire, there pants are on fire. It's a crock there just not used to customers comming in and telling THEM what is wrong with the car.


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## reflexiv (Jul 2, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Yea, yea, there pants are on fire, there pants are on fire. It's a crock there just not used to customers comming in and telling THEM what is wrong with the car.







[HR][/HR]​Ain't THAT the truth. My service writer was stumped about how to write down the complaint. I said "The injector seals are leaking." He said "I'm not allowed to write the complaint like that for warranty work." What, like the customer isn't supposed to tell you what the problem is? So he wrote "Gunk around injector seals."


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## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

*Re: (JettaTypeN)*

quote:[HR][/HR]...It did not appear wet, just stained. I took the car in today and just got it back. They said there was no leak. "If there was a leak, even very small, you would be able to smell gas," quoteth I of the VW service advisor. Is this the case?[HR][/HR]​Dirty Little Secret: All gasolines contain a very small amount of semi-volatile asphaltine material (i.e. heavy gunk) that remains behind AFTER the light materials (i.e. benzenes, xylenes, toluene, naphthalenes, etc) have evaporated away.
Your injector seals are LEAKING and need replacing if they have brown stains around them.
Print this out and show it to your uninformed service advisor. People will always take the easy way out if given the opportunity.


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Electron Man)*

I'm getting my seals tomarrow and putting them on.


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## TurboJetta2000 (Jul 15, 2001)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What a crock! That dealer has his pants on fire. There is a TSB on the subject. Just keep an eye on it, I can guarantee that in a couple of weeks the stains will be back getting worse. Why? because theyare leaking. You can do one of two things, insist that dealer changes them or spend $13 and do it yourself.[HR][/HR]​
CAn you show me where the TSb is, so i canp print it out and take it to my dealer tomorow?


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## 01wolfs1.8T (Aug 6, 2001)

*Re: (TurboJetta2000)*

Ok sorry for the ignorgance but I have only owned a vw for 6 months. where could this seal be leaking and where can i look for it if it is leaking?


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (TurboJetta2000)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
CAn you show me where the TSb is, so i canp print it out and take it to my dealer tomorow?[HR][/HR]​Ya...anyone have a copy of the TSB so that I can take it to my dealer???
Stu


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## VWParts (Sep 22, 2000)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

Yeah that would be good ... I have an apointment scheduled for tuesday morning so I can ask them to check it for me.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: (Senna 1.8T)*

bump -- need tsb....


[Modified by Boostin20v, 1:48 PM 9-13-2001]


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## CBR600F4 (Aug 23, 2001)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

Okay, so I checked my injectors and I see this brown stain around the base where the injectors are sitting. Is this the injector leak you guys are talking about? And also, is this robbing me of performance? I do feel that the car isn't at full potential every now and then.
My car is going in for service next Wednesday for a broken transmission mount so I guess I should have them check the injectors out, too?


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (CBR600F4)*

Picked mine up today. Dealers charging $3 each for them. Said some matrix has them for $6 each. What a ripoff


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Picked mine up today. Dealers charging $3 each for them. Said some matrix has them for $6 each. What a ripoff[HR][/HR]​







some matrix?


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## santa's 1.8T (May 27, 2001)

*Re: (Boostin20v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]
CAn you show me where the TSb is, so i canp print it out and take it to my dealer tomorow?
Ya...anyone have a copy of the TSB so that I can take it to my dealer???
Stu[HR][/HR]​TTT


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## terribleone (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

glad i read the post...my injectors are leaking also! #4 looks the worst. 2000 gti gls awd 4/00.
thanks for the heads-up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## CBR600F4 (Aug 23, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

quote:[HR][/HR]TTT
You guys with AWD engines need to take care of this problem, it's dangerous and robs you of your precious boost!
$10 for 2psi is a good deal.[HR][/HR]​Is this a problem for AWW motors, too? Will I loose alot of performance???


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (CBR600F4)*

quote:[HR][/HR]TTT
Is this a problem for AWW motors, too? Will I loose alot of performance???[HR][/HR]​Not sure if or when the problem was fixed or not. AWD engines all seem to leak. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Levish (Dec 1, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

I've checked mine...they don't seem to be leaking ... could be a early AWD problem


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## ANT THE KNEE (Aug 25, 2000)

*Re:*

my fater's 1.8t has leaky seals and he is a automatic AWW jetta


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg_de)*


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## Levish (Dec 1, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

would anyone care to tell me if these seem like they are leaky...I am trying to diagnose my car's somewhat underpoweredness
i have tried searching for the pics of the leaky injector seals and haven't found them...thanks all...































http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Levish (Dec 1, 2000)

*Re: (Levish)*

thanks again
and high res pics at http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1589549&a=13781460&f=0 


[Modified by Levish, 3:34 PM 9-21-2001]


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg_de)*

I agree, they look great compared to mine, before replacing


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## Levish (Dec 1, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

thanks for the replies guys







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif the flash brightened up the pics a bit
I guess i should keep on looking


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## Malakas (Aug 1, 2001)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

Thanks for the pics!










[Modified by Malakas, 1:55 PM 9-21-2001]


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## jeffgingras (Dec 18, 2000)

*Re: (CBR600F4)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Is this a problem for AWW motors, too? Will I loose alot of performance???[HR][/HR]​Well, judging from what I just saw on my AWW 5 minutes ago, yes. The two nearest the passenger side don't look too bad, but the two nearest the driver's side have leaked about 1.5 inches up the intake runners. Bummer, but my 10,000 mile service is only 2-3 months away, so I will have them take a look at it then. That and all the dash rattles. And the squeaky clutch pedal. And how the moonroof vibrates when it closes. I can see the look on the service advisor's face now


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## 2is1 (May 8, 2001)

*Re: (jeffgingras)*

I love this site!!! Going to check mine today. Thanks for sharing this information.


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg_de)*

just checked this again http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

carb cleaner is cool ... got some in my eye ... ouch


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

Guess you did not read the DIY instructions, says plainly use safety glasses.







[jk]


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## Kafka (Feb 18, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Where can I locate the Injector please?
I am trying to show the dealer today....


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*


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## spaceman_spiff (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (Kafka)*

kafka, when you open your hood, there is a big silver ...umm...."bar" there above the dipstick. that's the intake manifold. pop off the engine cover and you'll see that it splits 4 ways, and on the top of each tube (which is going into the engine) you will see 4 injectors. look at the pics below, and go from there.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








YOU CAN DO IT!!!!










































[Modified by spaceman_spiff, 6:45 PM 9-26-2001]


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (whizbang18T)*

;-) <---- Luis


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## VWParts (Sep 22, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

Well dealer replaced my #4 injector ...








I even printed this out, but for some reason they ordered a new injector. This sucks ... what's the part number for the seals???


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## VWParts (Sep 22, 2000)

*Re: (Senna 1.8T)*

Bug,
Do you have a part number for the seals??? 
The part number that somone posted here was used by the dealer and they actually told me that that number was for a injector ... damn Im confused ... im going to do this myself ....


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

LOL! i just saw that!
quote:[HR][/HR];-) <---- Luis[HR][/HR]​


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## whizbang18T (Nov 17, 2000)

*Re: (Senna 1.8T)*

dude, it's somwhere in this thread ... 
06A-906-149


[Modified by whizbang18T, 12:43 AM 10-4-2001]


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (Senna 1.8T)*

It's not an injector part number I took mine down to the dealer and got it. They will try and tell you it's for a golf or jetta, just tell them to give you the 0-ring and stuff it. Really my parts guy is pretty good, but if he's not there, I end up scouring EKTA behind the desk in the parts department because the other guys don't know how to find the parts.
Luis I thought you'd like that


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Measuring the replacement seals VW Part# 06A-906-149, they seamed to me to be oversized in the thickness as compared to the National Standards. 
Mine were made in Italy if that helps, and that is the correct Part#!! don't listen to the dealer parts guys opinion. [HR][/HR]​From the opening thread, guys like they say...."If all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS",


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

On 8/21 I installed new injector seal. Today I noticed they are leaking AGAIN. THIS BITES, POS! I'm going to do the Manifold Inserts + new seals also this time. If they leak again I'm torching it.







Burn baby Burn


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## AxeAngel (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

im thiking this could be the reason i got the DTC cylinder 4 fuel injection circuit open circuit?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (AxeAngel)*

I really don't think this could be cause. More likely an electrical malfunction, corrosion on the connector?


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*








You sure?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

quote:[HR][/HR]







You sure?[HR][/HR]​I don't think a leak will register a injector open circuit DTC.
Yes, I got a leak on #2 and #3, I cleaned the area, gonna check how long it takes to get dirty again, I'm mad. Going to order the inserts when I get back.


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## saab340 (May 17, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

Hey guys, I just got my car back from the dealer and they replaced all 4 injectors due to them leaking! I showed them my problem and figured they would just replace the O-rings but they went ahead and replaced all 4 injectors!! The dealer service was great with no problems concerning this!


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## Knife_Fighting_Monkey (Jan 3, 2001)

Guys, has anyone got a copy of the TSB, or at least its number? I can find people asking for it in the thread, but no responses.


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## drm916 (Dec 6, 2000)

*Re: (Knife_Fighting_Monkey)*

there is no TSB.....That is a rumor....


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## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Today I noticed they are leaking AGAIN.[HR][/HR]​Go back and read the first post in this thread very carefully...I assume the shop monkey who installed your "new" o-rings didn't bother to check your o-rings (to ensure they were correct). Since the "new" versions leaked, they were probably the same size as the old o-rings.
If I had this problem, I'd go buy my own micrometer and check the o-rings when I bought them from the parts dept.
Good Luck


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## spaceman_spiff (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: (Electron Man)*

"i don't like the term 'shop monkey'..... you ever know a monkey that could take apart a carbuerator?"
-Richard Puddy


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## ArM4ND (Jul 7, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

I just got off the phone with my VW service dept rep on an unrelated issue. I mentioned this problem to him and he hasn't seen a TSB on this. He also mentions that if it were leaking that it would probably prompt a "Check Engine" light. I sent him the URL and hopefully he will review it. Maybe we can start getting our service dept's to start coming here more often. It will give them a better insight into how we, the customer, thinks and maybe help them to provide us with better service.


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## jeffgingras (Dec 18, 2000)

*Re: (ArM4ND)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Maybe we can start getting our service dept's to start coming here more often.[HR][/HR]​No! No! Then we won't be able to list our mods in our signatures! They wouldn't give us better service (that comes from the top), they would just have easier ways to detect our "problem causing" mods.


[Modified by jeffgingras, 9:25 PM 10-15-2001]


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (saab340)*

I took my car into the dealer today (only VW dealer within 120 miles) to have them look at the injector leakage and brown stuff around them. I just got a call back from them saying that there is no leakage found in the injectors and that nothing was wrong. I asked them what the brown stuff around the injectors was then. They said they didn't know, but everything was ok. 
Can anybody help me out with a way to get them to do something about it? I told them that many others have had the same problem, and even gave him the part # for the seals. Should I insist they replace the o-rings or just do it myself? 
Also, I have sepege around my crank case. Not dripping, but just oil around the case. They said this was normal too. Is it?
Thanks.


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## VooWee (Sep 25, 2000)

*Re: (keegan)*

I had the same response recently and the dealership told me that the fuel stain would be pink--which is true. They are not sure what it was either and suggested that it might be the sealant used on the injector boots on the intake manifold.
They cleaned the stains and asked me to keep an eye on them while making a note for them to check at next service interval.
I have never smelled any fuel, so I guess I have to agree with them at this point.


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## cronus (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (VooWee)*

Well after my 10k service i heard the turbo spooling louder than usual but didn't notice a power increase, i looked just this morning and i saw orange stains around the injector seals. Where can I buy European Injectors and seals?


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## cronus (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg_de)*

its late in the poll .. where can i pick up new o-rings?


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## cronus (Jul 14, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg_de)*

great, thanks


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## hoser125 (Mar 29, 2001)

*Re: (cronus)*

OMG, cronus just ICQ'd me about his orings, I have been noticeing a power loss in my car in the last few days, I thought it was my DV, so I went to check my injectors and what do you know fuel all over my intake runner all 4 of them


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## TurboZen (Oct 15, 2000)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Couple of hints for you shade tree mechanics out there, who are going to do the seal change themselves.
1. Wear safety glasses for the dissasembly and cleaning, splashing fuel & cleaner is involed.
2. Tall guys drive your car up on ramps, for a better working hieght.
3. Spread out a clean towel on top of the valve cover, to put O-rings, injectors, bolts and spring clips on. If you drop one into the engine, this 1 hour event could get longer quickly.
4. Unclip the wiring harness from the fuel rail, and all related plugs you can get at. Then you get a clear shot at the 2 bolts that hold on the fuel rail.
5. First unscrew your gas cap, then disconnect the FPR.
6. Pull out the fuelrail with all injectors attached. Be carefull to pull strait out, one corner at a time is easier. You only need to pull it out 1/2", and it's not very tight fit as we allready know.
7. Leave the connectors on the injectors, leave the injectors on the fuel rail. If you have enough slack in the wiring harness, you can pull out the fuel rail far enough to lay it on your towel, atop the valve cover.
8. Clean all the fuel off the injectors, drying off the O-rings and you fingers. Then pinch the O-ring on the injector between you thumb and finger, trying to make a hoop of slack O-ring (use the meditating guru hand position with you palm up) then roll off the hoop with you finger nail. *** Never use any kind of sharp metal objects to try and pick off an O-ring. If you must use a pick try a plasic fork at most.*** Remember the injector is plasic as well.
9. I used some small corks to plug off the injector ports, as I cleaned the surrounding area with RC car electric motor cleaner(plastic safe flavor), carb cleaner would be good for this. Air gun was used to dry up and blow out all debris. Have a rag stuck up under the intake manifold helps to catch fuel and cleaner. Don't get crazy with the cleaner, you don't want that stuff all over your engine bay.
10. Put small oil/grease film in the injector seats and on the new O-ring before installing the injectors again.
Here is another thread with my theory on injector #4 tendency for leaking. http://forums.vwvortex.com/vwbb/Forum27/HTML/004313.html 
No question on where the residue was comming from on my motor. Also fairly positive I won't be having any more leaking for a long time.







It feels like I gained a pound or two of peak boost, and the peace of mind that my motor won't burst into flames.[HR][/HR]​How do you disconnect the FPR?


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (TurboZen)*

There is a spring clip that holds the FPR into it's base, use a screwdriver to back it out, then pull up on the FPR it pops right out along with a small spray of Gas.


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## SilverFlash (Jun 20, 1999)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Would leaky seals be covered under the 10 year/100,000 powertrain warranty?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Electron Man)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Today I noticed they are leaking AGAIN.
Go back and read the first post in this thread very carefully...I assume the shop monkey who installed your "new" o-rings didn't bother to check your o-rings (to ensure they were correct). Since the "new" versions leaked, they were probably the same size as the old o-rings.
If I had this problem, I'd go buy my own micrometer and check the o-rings when I bought them from the parts dept.
Good Luck[HR][/HR]​The shop monkey that installed the o-ring was me. The person who found out about the new o-rings and started all this leaky injector thing was me. And Wolk got the info from me. 
What I'm telling you is that the new o-ring will not solve the problem. So quit being a jerk Electron Man.


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## Knife_Fighting_Monkey (Jan 3, 2001)

Just had my engine cover off today while I was installing my new short shift kit. Low and behold, number four has a stain around it (that wasn't there in the last time i checked).
Now, I'm a motor moron, and I also noticed that the gasket of the large piece of the motor (of which the oil fill hole is a part of) also looks like it is leaking from its gasket.
Now, I can tell there is some oil residue around the fill hole that could be spillage, but I can't tell if that spread out and encirled that piece and left a stain around the whole gasket. Any other ideas? Hopefully not too pricey ideas...
For people who've had there injectors/o-rings fixed, has it been done outside of anyone's warranty? I'm at 35 K, and if they're going to charge, I'll probably let it go for a while and then do it myself.


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## BORA_WE (May 9, 2001)

*Re: (Knife_Fighting_Monkey)*

I had my intake manifold off recently to polish it (didn't finish and had to put it back on 1/2 done) and noticed that the injector closests to the driver side was really bad and the one next to it had some stains around the rim too. This is a 2001 Jetta WE, AWW, build date of 3/01 so they haven't fixed it up to that point.


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

You damn Shop Monkey, I checked mine yesterday, and they are leaking again as well.







I guess the the cheap fix doesn't last to long, 3mo to the day.


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## mbuxton (Jan 15, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Dammit!







So now what do we do? Mine's looking as well (even after I switched the seals).

Matt


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (mbuxton)*

We need to find the shop monkey! 12 bucks cheap T-tape was cheaper and lasted the same. We need to check into the Manifold inserts, what bugs me is the tool for the shop monkey to use!







Maybe the guy that made the blow off valve adapters can make somthing up. Anybody knows him?


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## Knife_Fighting_Monkey (Jan 3, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

r u saying that the cheap fix - bigger O-rings - doesn't last? Or are you referring to something else?


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Knife_Fighting_Monkey)*

The bigger ones did not fix. Need bigger ones still


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## Electron Man (Sep 21, 1999)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

Start the search for some 0.115-0.118" cross section o-rings. Those ought to hold one bar plus of boost better.
Try a 13mm 1/2" drive allen key on the injector inserts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a 14y.o. "shop monkey", I disassembled a Holley 4BBL carburetor to rebuild it once. After the rebuild, there were a few spare parts left, but the car still ran fine.















Good Luck in your search for the tightest o-ring http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Raring 2 Go (May 22, 2000)

*Re: (Electron Man)*

Doh! My dealer is putting the bigger (but not big enough apparently) rings on today


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## Wolk's Wagon (Sep 27, 2000)

*Re: (Electron Man)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Start the search for some 0.115-0.118" cross section o-rings. Those ought to hold one bar plus of boost better.
Good Luck in your search for the tightest o-ring http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​There is no such thing as a fatter O-ring, unless you want to build a mold to have someone make some.
I'll figure it though and let Ya'll know when I do







. Most likely we are fighting a thermal expansion issue. Like they leak when the intake is cold but not when hot or vice a versa. I still have a couple of tricks left in the bag that could fix this problem.


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## hoser125 (Mar 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

I am puting my o-rings on now and when I get the new O-ring on it spins freely on the injector???







Is this supposed to happen?


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (hoser125)*

Damn guys I swapped out plugs for a buddy of mine today and the intake runner on his car were soooooooo bad. The leak was halfway up the runners and the injectors were totally soaked. So bad that he actually had a film of fuel/dirt on the engine. We went for a "spirited" drive and came back and number 4 was wet. I think someone needs to contact NTSA about the possible fire hazard on these and have them recalled. I haven't checked my Orings since putting the larger ones on, but I've been pushing stock boost. I think the OEM's are just not good enough to hold 1bar or so.
*edit*
BTW I think that it is the inserts because I did have a small leak when I installed my 580cc injectors with the Stadard size Orings. FWIW that would mean the injectors are not undersize, but the bungs are.


[Modified by Bug_Power, 6:22 PM 10-23-2001]


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## jeffgingras (Dec 18, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I think someone needs to contact NTSA about the possible fire hazard on these and have them recalled.[HR][/HR]​Below is the link to NHTSA's online questionnaire, which allows you to report safety defects. They seem to think people will only fill out the questionnaire _after_ an accident or fire occurs. I filled it out and submitted it anyway. It allows you to get very specific about the problem, so it could be worth a shot. My gut says they won't consider it a mojor safety risk, however. And they can't make Volkswagen recall a part that only fails on cars with reprogrammed ECU's.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/ivoq/default.htm


[Modified by jeffgingras, 8:45 PM 10-23-2001]


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## marvd00d (Oct 24, 2001)

*this problem apply to 02 1.8t?*

i accidently made a new topic instead of a reply... sorry newbie mistake heh.... i plan on getting the 02 gti and was wondering if they have the same problem? thanks!


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## ACKTung (Aug 28, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg_de)*

Did mine....the driver's side injector leaked all the way down the runner and had a pool of liquid.
All 4 of mine were leaking bad. The car definitely pulls harder now......they FPR was a bitch though to put back.....not sure if i was doing something wrong....


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (wolfsburg_de)*

I'm going to venture into the bung ( inserts) purchase. Then myself and Wolk will try play shop monkeys again.


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

So, should we not replace them? I have the new ones in my hand, but if the are going to leak anyway, why not let them leak bad enough to get the dealership to do something. I mean, why should we mess with something that is going to just happen again. Obviously the o-ring isn't the problem or isn't working, so they need to figure out what it is, right? This is unacceptable and dangerous in my book. VW must correct this problem. My only worry is, if this only happens on modded cars they are not going to do anything. Someone with stock car should start another topic just like this but only people with stock rides should comment on the leaking injector. Maybe then we can get some help from VW. Anybody a moderator here maybe, you can help out by starting one and leaving it at the top. Just my $.02


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (keegan)*

keegan, I'm only pushing stock boost and have the problem. It's not horrible, but it is apparent.
Jorge you should buy the new 2002 bungs to see if they might have been fixed.


[Modified by Bug_Power, 5:17 AM 10-25-2001]


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## 9VW23yrs (Jun 22, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

Yeah, that,s a good idea, Rodney I will do it!


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## Bug_Power (Nov 27, 2000)

*Re: (9VW23yrs)*

I'm swapping some seals tomarrow for a friend. His were leaking so bad that they were halfway up the intake runners and had sprayed fuel all over the engine.......the #4 injector was pretty soaked after even a small run.


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## VWParts (Sep 22, 2000)

*Re: (Bug_Power)*

I think that it is time to contact VWOA ... 
Fax this to them or something ... ???????????


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (Senna 1.8T)*

Like I said, I think someone without any engine mods that is having this problem should start back up another post and then we can do something to show VWoA what the problem is. If we send this, they will dismiss it do to our mods. Anyone else have any ideas of recourse or retribution?


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## JettaManDan (Feb 7, 2001)

*Re: (keegan)*

Is there any more news of people getting this fixed by the dealer? - just looked today and think my #4 is leaking a little - just a hint of a stain around the injector housing.....


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## CanadianGTI (Oct 25, 2001)

*Re: (Wolk's Wagon)*

I know this is the 1.8T forum...so here goes....
Is this problem with the seals only apparent in the 1.8T???
I have a 2001 1.9TDI, has anyone seen the same problem in the TDI engines???


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## keegan (Sep 20, 2001)

*Re: (CanadianGTI)*

They should if your dealer is knowledgable. Mine is the only one within 130 miles and they are di**s, so they blew me off.


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## AxeAngel (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: (keegan)*

my dealer said he fixed mine, but i still see those nasty marks around the seals, maybe he didnt clean them?
gonna do that tommorrow and then talk to the technician myself.
on a side not anyone know if i can buy the hose to the fpr, i mangled mine and need to install a new one.


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