# My CC Catch can install (avoid valve build up)



## CC U L8TR (Aug 3, 2010)

So after reading all the FSI valve build up, I decided to get a catch can especially since I have a stage 3 on the car. Ordered it two weeks ago, and got it installed today. Thanks to EuroCode for a swift install, even though there were no instructions included for the TSI with my kit.  

Here is what it would look like if you do not install a can. 










I decided to post pics, incase anyone receives theirs without instructions, so you can get a better idea of how it mounts, enjoy!


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## praneetloke (Aug 1, 2010)

wow that looks ugly (the build up)..would you recommend getting a Catch Can even with a mostly stock CC (only mod is a Carbonio Stage I CAI)?


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## CC U L8TR (Aug 3, 2010)

Yes, i would recommend getting one, even if you have a stock car. This will prevent the valves from getting gunked up. Preventing any future carbon buildup. If you have a a FSI or TSI, i say get one. :thumbup:


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## halitzor (Dec 26, 2007)

As vw's get newer, the engine bays get more and more ugly.


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## praneetloke (Aug 1, 2010)

I am surprised that the dealers don't utter a word when we take it in for "service", as far as I know the only thing they do during one of the free services is change the oil filters and flush the oil..do they even check these kind of things in the engine bay, like carbon build up etc etc?


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## mercurial (Nov 11, 2010)

Forgive my ignorance - but this is the first I heard of this issue/concern. 

I thought our 2.0T is pretty solid compared to the 1.8T. 

Am I mistaken? 

mike.


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## j. Kush (Apr 3, 2002)

praneetloke said:


> as far as I know the only thing they do during one of the free services is change the oil filters and flush the oil..


 Not to be rude, but perhaps you ought to expand your knowledge then by consulting your owners manual and/or asking your advisor what each maintenance visit entails. 



praneetloke said:


> do they even check these kind of things in the engine bay, like carbon build up etc etc?


 No, the technician does not pull your manifold to inspect for carbon buildup. Why? Because it would be an expensive, timely, and unnecessary procedure. An extremely small fraction (less than 1%) of 2.0T's that go through the shop have buildup severe enough to cause driveability issues. What you're seeing circulated on the internet is generally worst case scenario and is not even close to an accurate reflection of what is going on inside the average owners engine. And think about it, if that money was coming out of your pocket, would you be willing to pay a couple hundred bucks in labor every oil change just to check something you saw on the web but aren't even having a problem with? Probably not.


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## raptor1 (Sep 16, 2010)

As a retired VW, Porsche technician, 
I'd like to know what the deal really is with the 2.0 TSI engine as far a carbon build up. 
I own a new 2010 CC Sport and don't want to buy something that isn't really required. 
I would think that the German engineers have fixed these issues by now, and 
unless we neglect performing proper maintainence, these engines should be very 
reliable and clean running.


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## ryanchance (Dec 15, 2010)

*carbon buildup*

I totally agree with you (raptor 1).As long as you perform the required maintenance,and have not modified your engine,and use the proper fuel, you should not have any major carbon buildup on the valves. I personally would not waste the money. Thats my opinion! I was a Ford master tech for twenty years before leaving the field(back problems),and ford frowned on aftermarket engine and powertrain addons...........I do not think VW would approve of such addons either. I certainly would check with them first to avoid any warranty issues!


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

raptor1 said:


> As a retired VW, Porsche technician,
> I'd like to know what the deal really is with the 2.0 TSI engine as far a carbon build up.
> I own a new 2010 CC Sport and don't want to buy something that isn't really required.
> I would think that the German engineers have fixed these issues by now, and
> ...


The Germans haven't fixed the issue yet.

the Japanese, in particular, Toyota, have in certain engines.


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## dtm337 (Jun 11, 2004)

first off who cares about warrentee's after havin a stage 3 installed ... i have one too . the issues is since there are some master tech's chiming in on this ..im one too but a vw tech.

there is no fuel going through the intake manifold just air and recirced gunk from crappy gas ,short rides junk oil ,blow by ect ...fuel is what keeps the intake clean by flushing it out from the get go .

no flushing = carbon and crap on valves 

get a catch can u need one my cc looked like crap at 10k when it was stock after checking the mani

and i use really good oil , and gas


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## praneetloke (Aug 1, 2010)

@j. Kush: that wasn't rude.. I certainly will ask them next time.. I guess by just saying I am a n00b at car mechanics would be ignorant on my part if I don't take interest in it.. As someone said elsewhere in this forum my knowledge lies elsewhere but I would love to learn these kinda things about my car..

Anyway steering back to the topic of this thread I now see that some of you feel the catch can install is not really required if one makes sure that regular maintenance is done? Does changing the oil and the filter (say 5k mi) help? I have 20k miles in just over a year


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

ryanchance said:


> I totally agree with you (raptor 1).As long as you perform the required maintenance,and have not modified your engine,and use the proper fuel, you should not have any major carbon buildup on the valves. I personally would not waste the money. Thats my opinion! I was a Ford master tech for twenty years before leaving the field(back problems),and ford frowned on aftermarket engine and powertrain addons...........I do not think VW would approve of such addons either. I certainly would check with them first to avoid any warranty issues!


Unfortunately, even with all the required maintenance, the buildup will inevitably happen. Even Ford recognizes the issue. Supposedly the Ecoboost engine has a replaceable PCV filter, supposedly to mitigate the issue.

As I said, certain Toyotas, actually Lexus engines (everything but the ES350 & RX350) with direct injection has D4-S, which combines port injection with direct injection


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## tracyface1999 (Jan 17, 2013)

*2010 VW CC - Carbon Build up*

Hi -
I went to the dealership today and was told my 2010 CC with 44K miles was running rough due to carbon build up. What?? I only use Premium gas and 80% get gas from the same Shell station.
I was suprised to hear that carbon had built up so fast and bad enough to cause my car to run rough. The dealership did a fuel injection flush cleaning and hopefully this will take care of it. However, they informed me that if this didnt take care of it they would have to do a major cleaning and it would cost $600 USD!! the advisor said they are seeing more and more cars with the same issue... none of this is unde warranty. 
I dont feel this should be happening as my car doesnt have that much mileage. I was wondering if anyone else has had this issue or heard of this in cars lately?

Thanks!


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## S WORD (Jul 21, 2011)

This happens because of the direct injection to cylinder. Unlike other cars that pass the gas over the valves which keeps them clean and sparkly.

What is considered running rough? Idle? RPM jumps?
Could be many things and they are going to take $1200 from you before they even get to whats really wrong.

See if you can find a user with VAGCOM in your area to check for codes in your car. This should save your pocket. The flush will likely not do anything. Valve cleaning might be good but I would make sure this is the cause before shelling out the doh!


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## xterrain (Jun 1, 2012)

Does anyone know what the purpose of the 2nd PCV line to the back of the engine was for? Every installation manual I've read only includes 2 lines, 1 in the front and 1 in the back...however, this catch-can install includes 3 hoses, with 2 in the back and 1 in the front. That, and the catch-can was designed to function this way? What's the purpose?

I've been looking at the Forge and the 42 Draft catch-can designs for my car, but I want to make the best decision possible for reliability.


Edit: This is the BSH Competition Catch-Can system. Okay okay okay...I think I'll be going with this kit as it's the most economical.

HOWEVER, what's the purpose of the 'Africa' plate from 034 Motorsports or Forge? What benefit is there to getting ride of the PCV selector valve setup?


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

xterrain said:


> Does anyone know what the purpose of the 2nd PCV line to the back of the engine was for? Every installation manual I've read only includes 2 lines, 1 in the front and 1 in the back...however, this catch-can install includes 3 hoses, with 2 in the back and 1 in the front. That, and the catch-can was designed to function this way? What's the purpose?
> 
> I've been looking at the Forge and the 42 Draft catch-can designs for my car, but I want to make the best decision possible for reliability.
> 
> ...


The purpose of the Africa plate is that a vendor makes more money. There is no performance benefit to replace the factory PCV valve/oil separator/checkvalve/vacuum regulator unit on the TSI engine.


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## talja10 (Jan 4, 2010)

Preventing this:








This:








And this







from getting into your intake manifold and turbo


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## xterrain (Jun 1, 2012)

CC'ed said:


> The purpose of the Africa plate is that a vendor makes more money. There is no performance benefit to replace the factory PCV valve/oil separator/checkvalve/vacuum regulator unit on the TSI engine.


That's what I was thinking. I'll definitely be getting a catch-can, but i didn't see the purpose of bypassing so much extra stuff that's functional.



talja10 said:


> Preventing this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I know this, but dang thanks for sharing in volume. How many miles were driven between each of these flushes? I'm getting worried because my 2012 has 41k on it already. I really don't want my engine to start running shady and cost me an arm and a leg to clean the head.


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## cngreeno (Jul 11, 2012)

*free services*

Hey Kush: Care to share what dealers do then as PART OF FREE SERVICES. I read the manual and they do not due crap except oil changes tire rotation and maybe cabin filter @20k. Oh they inspect brakes etc. but your comment was rude.


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## piperpilot964 (Aug 25, 2009)

Nice DIY photos...faulty title...should say (delay valve build up)


Furthermore, carbon buildup can and will affect running operation. 

At some point carbon on the valve stems can prevent the valve from naturally rotating which further fouls the stems and possibly the seats. Both can prevent proper seating which will manifest itself as cold start misfires....been there done that. 

At 70K, Had an intake replacement at the dealer due to intake flapper failure, again  . When the car was in they offered to clean the valves for a charge of course. I declined. I started having cold misfires a few days after and brought the car back. The advisor tried to sell me on getting the valves done which of course was more expensive now. I told them to look at the fuel delivery since, since I saw codes. I got them to replace all injectors since they were seeing codes on one. That cost me a few bucks out of pocket. When that didn't fix the misfires, had a long talk with the svc manager and after checking his info with a few other sources, I swapped plugs (it was due anyways) and coil packs. No change, I then did the cleaning myself. Not hard, but time consuming. Problem solved and the car ran smooth as silk and better all around with NO cold start misfires.

Catch cans are cool looking, but they will only delay the inevitable, and IMHO, a waste of money, regardless of stage level. 

I did tons of research and could find nothing but anecdotal evidence, mostly from vendors and modders, that a catch can does anything really useful. Until I see a side by side comparison, with pictures of valves on a car with and without a can after similar miles, there is no proof it eliminates anything but money in my wallet. In fact, the more folks I talk to that rip these motors apart all the time, the more evidence I hear that CC's are of no appreciable use. Better to save the $300 or more for the can and put it towards a cleaning every 20-30k or so.


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## xterrain (Jun 1, 2012)

piperpilot964 said:


> Nice DIY photos...faulty title...should say (*delay valve build up*)
> 
> 
> Furthermore, carbon buildup can and will affect running operation.
> ...


Catch-Cans (while used by billion dollar racing programs, emission systems engineers, and developed by dozens of companies) are gimmicks? I've done the research too and I find your logic flawed in how you came to a conclusion that supports your suggestions that catch-can's are unnecessary and that people should, instead of spending $300 once, should spend $300 every 20k miles on a valve cleaning? That's not preventative maintenance (which is a category that a catch-can falls under); It's reactive maintenance and I doubt it's as effective or economical.

Tom-A-toes, Tom-O-toes.


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## piperpilot964 (Aug 25, 2009)

Sir, I find your reading skills flawed. 

I never said unnecessary, I said they have no appreciable effect and only delay the inevitable.

It is not Tom-A-toes, Tom-O-toes thing. It is like Bigfoot, or Lochness. I want proof, you choose to believe based on the logic that race teams use it and so many people like to say they work with very little info behind the claim. All over forums people (and vendors) trumpet the virtues of this and that with NO PROOF, but their word or some info on the VENDOR's site. This CC debate is simply another case.

I don't care if they are on the space shuttle. Billion dollar race teams, so what. Does that make our car that much better because team Umptee Squat uses a catch can? 


So here is some info after talking with several experienced techs and going through VW engine operation docs. Lets explore why race teams use them...

On the 2.0t, the oil vapor laden air is being vented directly into the intake and the over the intake valves(non-boost state or vacuum), or to the turbo intake side via a tap just down stream of the mass air meter(boost state). Our engines spend the majority of their lives NOT in a boost state, vacuum state or near (cruising or at constant speed, if you will) so most of time the PCV blow by is being vented to the intake ports and over the valves. ONLY in a boosted state is the blow by directed towards the turbo its couplers, the inter cooler....because that is how the oil separation system check valves operate. Exactly why our intake valves get very dirty long before we grenade a turbo. 

Race teams run their cars HARD. The engines are far more often in a boosted state, of course they want to keep oil out of things like the inter cooler and turbo clean, which are expensive and working HARD. Those parts are working orders of magnitude harder than our parts in our cars even when we play stop light racer boi. In one race they punish a car and it's systems by what would compare to many more actual miles in our normal driving. That is why your "billion dollar" teams all use them. But it does not mean we all should mount them.


Catch cans are right up there with cold air intakes, for our market segment. Look neat in the engine compartment, but barely support the claims of the sellers and those who plunk down money for them (and of course want to believe they spent their money well).

Everywhere, pictures of buildup with no CC, but NOWHERE pictures of valves after XXXXX miles with a CC to prove they really do much FOR US in OUR DAILY DRIVING LIVES. Trust me, I want to believe since valve cleanings are tedious and take time, but not till I see some proof.

Due to the way I just described the PCV operation on the 2.0t, yes your CC will produce goo and pull oil from the vapor, but it will only delay the inevitable, not eliminate since MOST of the time blow by is hitting the intake side and the valves DOWNSTREAM of the turbo. Frankly no one can tell you how long it will allow you to avoid cleaning and no one has ever shown any proof of the effect of a CC, just lots of talk of eliminating the need to clean.

Show me the proof, make be a believer. Pictures of valves after 20 or 40k when a catch can has been in stalled and the valves NEVER needed cleaning or are so much cleaner, and I will then believe they actually prevent or avoid anything, rather than delay the need to do the cleaning until some later date. That is what I am stating and there is the summary of info supporting it.


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## tambat (Jun 20, 2010)

i would like to add to this discussion since i have done a fair amount of research on this subject. are catch cans usefel? of course. anyone who has pulled any charge piping post-pcv valve and has seen the amount of oil that accumulates in there will see the value in a catch can. is it worth spending $300+ for one of the pre-made kits on the market? well that is debatable and more relevant to your income. i totally see value in having a catch can and have ran one on the last two cars i've owned. 

now.. do catch cans stop carbon buildup on these motors? nope. it sucks, but it is the truth. many people thought that oil vapor in the intake was what was causing the carbon buildup, and logically, a properly baffled catch can should solve this problem. well.. it didn't. this is a problem with a lot of direct injection motors too, not just our 2.0tsi. i have seen many examples in the gti forums of people showing buildup even with a good catch can set up. 

but there is a solution to this problem.. water/methanol injection. it has been proven to prevent buildup and keep the valves looking fresh. i guess the only real way to keep the valves clean is by having something wash over them (something toyota figured out, since they have an injector in the intake manifold and direct injection)

also, a good catch can set up can take care of issues with a weak pcv system.


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## xterrain (Jun 1, 2012)

piperpilot964 said:


> Sir, I find your reading skills flawed....
> 
> ...It is not Tom-A-toes, Tom-O-toes thing. It is like Bigfoot, or Lochness. I want proof...


:facepalm: Wound a little tight up there in Connecticut?



tambat said:


> i would like to add to this discussion since i have done a fair amount of research on this subject. are catch cans usefel? of course. anyone who has pulled any charge piping post-pcv valve and has seen the amount of oil that accumulates in there will see the value in a catch can. is it worth spending $300+ for one of the pre-made kits on the market? well that is debatable and more relevant to your income. i totally see value in having a catch can and have ran one on the last two cars i've owned.
> 
> now.. do catch cans stop carbon buildup on these motors? nope. it sucks, but it is the truth. many people thought that oil vapor in the intake was what was causing the carbon buildup, and logically, a properly baffled catch can should solve this problem. well.. it didn't. this is a problem with a lot of direct injection motors too, not just our 2.0tsi. i have seen many examples in the gti forums of people showing buildup even with a good catch can set up.
> 
> ...


Agreed. They're obviously useful and in the very least they reinforce an inherently weak PCV system and reduce the amount of condensed vapor/oil that enters the engines intake side. That being said, a catch can + methanol injection seems like a winning combination to me. What do I know though, I only have a mechanical engineering degree.


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## piperpilot964 (Aug 25, 2009)

xterrain said:


> :facepalm: Wound a little tight up there in Connecticut?


Nah, not at all sir....just spirited debate. Lotta sea lawyers on here and info is often summarized and myths perpetuated, which makes the boards less helpful. So much is stated here with NO proof at all. Just wanted to make sure all communications and understanding was clear. I tend to endeavor to help educate and also learn with info and facts rather than follow the herd. I am always open to learning, just gotta have facts. Now you know what that second line to the back of the engine is for, turbo/boost side PCV venting. :thumbup: We all have something to learn here, regardless of our degrees/education.

No one was doubting any of yours or any one's possible knowledge, just the simple explanation/arguments made. Its all good.

Cheers :beer:


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## xterrain (Jun 1, 2012)

piperpilot964 said:


> Cheers :beer:


Haha, nice reference to sea lawyers. LOL. I'll second that! You're right, we all always have something else to learn and now I know. That being said, I'm still unaware as to why some kits (034 Motorsports) include a block-off plug for the rear PCV line, and others (BSH-Comp) include a 3rd line to route to a 3-hose CC? I understand the purpose of each, I just don't see why one company decided to go one route, while the other went elsewhere with their design.

Cheers. :beer:


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

raptor1 said:


> As a retired VW, Porsche technician,
> I'd like to know what the deal really is with the 2.0 TSI engine as far a carbon build up.
> I own a new 2010 CC Sport and don't want to buy something that isn't really required.
> I would think that the German engineers have fixed these issues by now, and
> ...


Lmao


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2005)

I stumbled across this thread, and I see some good points being made, but I wanted to put in my $.02 as someone who has spent more time on this issue than most, and as someone who has the experience of designing a catch can system.

First, will any catch can stop all carbon build up? No, absolutely not, its going to happen eventually no matter what. If you switched to a VTA system that would change that answer greatly, but there are obvious downsides to a VTA can setup.

Will it help reduce the amount of buildup in the system - ABSOLUTELY. I have run our catch can on my FSI for almost 4 years now, and my valves have less buildup than the previous 3 years without a can.

The notion of creating a side-by-side comparison is prohibitively expensive, and would take quite a while to implement. And if it came from anywhere but a 3rd party source, the results would be debated and argued as biased. So what then really is the point? 

The race teams run catch cans (like APR motorsport runs ours) for different reasons than longevity and ease of cleaning valves. The TSI engine has a bad habit of puking oil in large quantities out of the PCV system under lateral and negative g load. The catch can is a necessity for those who plan to put alot of track time in.

Our catch cans are expensive, yes, but they work the way they were designed 100% of the time, and they are easy to install and add to the look of the engine bay (we think). And at the end of your ownership, you have something that you can take off of the car and re-sell to the next customer. 

Just wanted to share


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## rebornd1994 (Sep 12, 2016)

CC U L8TR said:


> So after reading all the FSI valve build up, I decided to get a catch can especially since I have a stage 3 on the car. Ordered it two weeks ago, and got it installed today. Thanks to EuroCode for a swift install, even though there were no instructions included for the TSI with my kit.
> 
> Here is what it would look like if you do not install a can.
> 
> ...


Hope you don't mind I have a stock 2012 CC sport, where did you buy the catch can? and also where did you get that air intake at? and also how much did it cost you to have a stage 3 installed? how did you have the computer of the car adjusted and would you be willing to make a video showing how to install the catch can or walk me through it? Thanks buddy.


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## WILLCCU (Oct 26, 2015)

Local shop I use...owner tells me industry news is valve cleaning on DI engines will be the BIG INCOME PRODUCER of the next decade. Not a typical DIY job and when it needs to be fixed...it needs to be fixed! I’m eventually putting a catch can on my CC.
As I have almost 19,000 miles now, probably sooner than later. Have not made a determination on what the best product is.


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## RayRod (Jul 24, 2015)

I will provide mileage and pictures when its time to remove carbon buildup as this mod (CC and MWI) was done partially to help in that area. I have never done a carbon cleaning of the valves and the engine still purrs when first started and cold.


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