# Smoking out exhaust after 30 mile highway trip



## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

About a year and a half ago this started. Drove about 30 miles, stopped off some place, got back in the car and white smoke started pouring out the exhaust. Smelled rich. Ended up having it towed to a dealer to check, only thing they came back with was possibly a bad coil pack, nothing else was showing no codes, error lights nothing. I swapped out the coil packs, and no change. A week later the problem just disappeared. Monday (two days ago) it started back up. Drove to work, 30 miles highway, get off the exit hit a stop light and as soon as I start to go plumes of white smoke. Did this Monday, nothing Tuesday and again today. No error lights, ran the torque app and no codes showing. Any thoughts? The video attached shows a little of the smoke, that is no where near the amount that happens after exiting a long highway drive.

https://youtu.be/s9PJw5kCm2I

Is there a way to post the youtube clip directly here so you don't have to click the link?


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## afawal2014 (Jul 13, 2016)

Hello Kona0915,

The video clip you posted showed some white smoke, but it's tough to tell from the video what's going on, so you need to check a few things:

1- What is your oil level?
2- What is your coolant level?
3- Check your dipstick and oil fill cap. Is there ANY foam?

A bad coil pack would cause misfires and smoke would be more on the black side - not white - and you would more than likely have misfire codes too.
The same goes for over fueling due to a failed injector - you'll get misfires, a code, and black smoke. You would also be able to see that with your Torque app by looking at the fuel trim levels.

If you're car is burning oil, it is an indication of worn piston rings.
If you're losing coolant, then you're looking at a head gasket.

These are rare failures for these engines.

Check those things and we can go from there.

Good luck.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Oil level is on the money. Coolant level good. No foam on the oil cap or dipstick. When it started smoking the fuel trim was all over the place. Dipped to -18 once then positive 8. Went down to -10 on time briefly. It literally is like 30 miles is the magic number. Got.stuck in traffic coming home, never smoked once. Get off the highway sit at a light and bam smoke all over the place. Here's a better video showing the smoke plume tonight . I did put a tank of 93 octane in it the other day hoping it would help and no such luck. Only gas I put in it is Shell. Had an oil change last week also

https://youtu.be/kO3bI5ZgWGE

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## afawal2014 (Jul 13, 2016)

That to me definitely looks like oil is burning somewhere.

My next suggestion would be to check your valve cover - make sure there are no oil leaks from there.
Also check your plugs, are they all tight? Is there any sign of oil getting on them?


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

afawal2014 said:


> That to me definitely looks like oil is burning somewhere.
> 
> My next suggestion would be to check your valve cover - make sure there are no oil leaks from there.
> Also check your plugs, are they all tight? Is there any sign of oil getting on them?


Thank you, I'll check all that tonight.

Would an oil issue cause my fuel trims to go crazy like that?

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## NJMKIV (Mar 18, 2012)

Kona0915 said:


> Thank you, I'll check all that tonight.
> 
> Would an oil issue cause my fuel trims to go crazy like that?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


If a dealer said bad coil pack did they change it or them?

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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

NJMKIV said:


> If a dealer said bad coil pack did they change it or them?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I replaced all 5

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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

What about STFT and LTFT? Looks like an injector..


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ronny Bensys said:


> What about STFT and LTFT? Looks like an injector..



Someone, we won't say who, went stupid last night on my drive home and forgot to hit the "log" or record button on the torque app. When I was able to look at it when the smoking started after I had stopped it jumped to -18 then back to -4, then +3 then zero to -2. Next time it hit -13 from a stop and started smoking. Both times you could feel the engine running rough then it smoothed out. The odd thing is, this doesn't happen while driving on the highway and it literally is a 30 mile mark that it begins to happen which is really odd. Last night sitting in stop and go traffic on the highway for probably 20-25 minutes no smoke, opens back up to 70mph for about 5 miles which puts me at 30, get off the highway and my car looks like a dragon blowing smoke LOL


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

So the engine bay looks good and clean no signs of leaks. The plugs are numbered if standing in front of the car facing the engine 1 on the left 5 on the right. Plug 5 is fouled really bad as you can see in the. Plugs are the recommended NGK platinum plugs
pics









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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Here's the torque reading from yesterday with the short term and long term fuel trims. I had it setup to automatically log, forgot I had to email it to myself:banghead:


https://www.dropbox.com/s/kil7s9rvwo16w22/trackLog-2018-Apr-26_17-10-10 final.xlsx?dl=0


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> Someone, we won't say who, went stupid last night on my drive home and forgot to hit the "log" or record button on the torque app. When I was able to look at it when the smoking started after I had stopped it jumped to -18 then back to -4, then +3 then zero to -2. Next time it hit -13 from a stop and started smoking. Both times you could feel the engine running rough then it smoothed out. The odd thing is, this doesn't happen while driving on the highway and it literally is a 30 mile mark that it begins to happen which is really odd. Last night sitting in stop and go traffic on the highway for probably 20-25 minutes no smoke, opens back up to 70mph for about 5 miles which puts me at 30, get off the highway and my car looks like a dragon blowing smoke LOL


You have a leaking injector. Not all leaking injectors misfire by the way. I have a similar issue but my LTFT is stable -5... -7 at idle.

The reason you don't have smoke on the highway is the excess fuel corresponding to a smaller fraction of total injected fuel at high RPMs. So that causes LTFT to shift to a positive range. When the car is idling, the excess fuel makes a higher ratio hence the white smoke and negative LTFT at idle.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> So the engine bay looks good and clean no signs of leaks. The plugs are numbered if standing in front of the car facing the engine 1 on the left 5 on the right. Plug 5 is fouled really bad as you can see in the. Plugs are the recommended NGK platinum plugs


4th and 5th are leaking. 5th is worse than 4th. Did you notice the engine vibrating at idle?


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ronny Bensys said:


> 4th and 5th are leaking. 5th is worse than 4th. Did you notice the engine vibrating at idle?


Didn't really notice anything odd at idle, it's when accellerating from a stop I can feel it


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Have you seen any good write ups on how to replace the injectors? Been on google and youtube for an hour and can't find one for the 2.5


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> Didn't really notice anything odd at idle, it's when accellerating from a stop I can feel it


I want to make sure. Just place your hand on engine cover. Do you feel a slight vibration?


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ronny Bensys said:


> I want to make sure. Just place your hand on engine cover. Do you feel a slight vibration?


What type of vibration are you looking for? Something odd like rough?


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## Ichabod0525 (Feb 11, 2018)

Oil in the throttle body and intake? My pure guess is that your PCV valve has failed and you are sucking oil into the intake. Sorta corresponds with the location of your fowled plug, the intermittent nature of the smoke and the rough running at times. Errant oil being drawn into combustion will affect your trim. Have a look see. There's a :beer: riding on it.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

There is a slight vibration. My wife has an 09 Mk5 and I compared the vibration to hers (which has no issues) and they feel identical. I also placed a heavy leatherman tool on the cover and it was the same as far as movement goes.

I also read on Deutsche Autoparts that a PCV failure you would not be able to remove the oil cap while the engine is running. I tested this and the oil cap could be removed with no issues.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> What type of vibration are you looking for? Something odd like rough?


Like a light shake. It is a stable vibration not like rough. If you don't place your hand on engine cover you won't feel. It doesn't influence engine performance though and disappears as soon as you give a little gas.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Ichabod0525 said:


> Oil in the throttle body and intake? My pure guess is that your PCV valve has failed and you are sucking oil into the intake. Sorta corresponds with the location of your fowled plug, the intermittent nature of the smoke and the rough running at times. Errant oil being drawn into combustion will affect your trim. Have a look see. There's a :beer: riding on it.


Worth checking. Though it'll cause oil loss in long term.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ronny Bensys said:


> Like a light shake. It is a stable vibration not like rough. If you don't place your hand on engine cover you won't feel. It doesn't influence engine performance though and disappears as soon as you give a little gas.


Yes light shake not rough at all, just a normal idle shake. Same as the my wife's '09 Mk5 which is having no issues.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ichabod0525 said:


> Oil in the throttle body and intake? My pure guess is that your PCV valve has failed and you are sucking oil into the intake. Sorta corresponds with the location of your fowled plug, the intermittent nature of the smoke and the rough running at times. Errant oil being drawn into combustion will affect your trim. Have a look see. There's a :beer: riding on it.





Ronny Bensys said:


> Worth checking. Though it'll cause oil loss in long term.


How do I test or inspect for that? Pull the valve cover? Pull the diaphragm on the PCV valve?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> How do I test or inspect for that? Pull the valve cover? Pull the diaphragm on the PCV valve?


Carefully pull PCV diaphragm cover and check the diaphragm. Keep attention not to break the cover. Oil vapors partially condensate and deposit inside the intake manifold. You'll notice the oil residue inside if you remove throttle body.


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## Ichabod0525 (Feb 11, 2018)

There are a few YouTube videos showing how to check the PCV. THIS is one of them


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ichabod0525 said:


> There are a few YouTube videos showing how to check the PCV. THIS is one of them


I couldn't get the diaphragm off, tried but felt like it was getting to the "cracking" point. So I pulled the throttle body. Looks like oil pooled up in there, should it be like that in there?









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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> I couldn't get the diaphragm off, tried but felt like it was getting to the "cracking" point. So I pulled the throttle body. Looks like oil pooled up in there, should it be like that in there?


No, it shouldn't. Try cleaning up the intake. At this point you should pull the PCV cover too to check the diaphragm. Use a wide flathead screwdriver to loosen the cover tips.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

How do you recommend cleaning up the intake? Take it off or do you have a fun little secret to clean it with it on?

If I crack those tabs the diaphragm will he screwed so need to make sure I have a spare on hand huh?

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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

I used long dry towel. Just wrap it to a long wrench.

I wouldn't risk taking the intake off. There are few hard to reach screws under it. You'll have to find a way from beneath without seeing them.

Yes, better buy a spare like Dorman PCV repair kit because if you find the diaphragm ruptured, you'll need a replacement which you don't have at the moment.
Dorman kit includes cover, spring and diaphragm.


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## afawal2014 (Jul 13, 2016)

Before you clean anything, you have to resolve the issue as to why the oil is in the throttle body to begin with - otherwise it's just going to get oily all over again. Your PCV system is likely the culprit. From what I have read, the PCV repair kits are not robust and can fail within a year or so. I would go with a new valve cover - it comes with the PCV, bolts, and new valve cover gasket as well. After you resolve the oil issue, I would then recommend that you use a throttle body cleaner. You're not going to be able to pick up the oil in all the areas where it deposits or sits.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

afawal2014 said:


> Before you clean anything, you have to resolve the issue as to why the oil is in the throttle body to begin with - otherwise it's just going to get oily all over again. Your PCV system is likely the culprit. From what I have read, the PCV repair kits are not robust and can fail within a year or so. I would go with a new valve cover - it comes with the PCV, bolts, and new valve cover gasket as well. After you resolve the oil issue, I would then recommend that you use a throttle body cleaner. You're not going to be able to pick up the oil in all the areas where it deposits or sits.


Only getting the repair kit in case I crack the diaphragm housing getting it off so I can see if it's torn or bad. That way if it does crack I have a quick fix and can still drive it . If it's torn I'll order a new valve cover then clean everything out best as possible 

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## Newparts.com (Jul 12, 2017)

You can check the crankcase vacuum by inserting a vacuum gauge into the dipstick tube with the engine running at idle. There should be a very slight vacuum on the crankcase, the needle should move about .25 in/Hg. If there is excessive vacuum then the diaphragm is ruptured. You can also stick your finger over the little fresh air port on the bottom of the diaphragm cover. There should be no vacuum present.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Newparts.com said:


> There should be a very slight vacuum on the crankcase, the needle should move about .25 in/Hg.


Thank you for the information. Can you please clarify 0.25 in/Hg?

Is it absolute pressure measured with the gauge or the difference btw. crankcase and the athmospheric pressure?

If it is absolute pressure, then the crankcase vacuum turns out to be very strong.


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

Ronny Bensys said:


> 4th and 5th are leaking. 5th is worse than 4th. Did you notice the engine vibrating at idle?


Did you checked the injectors? I did not read anything about this.
I.m.o. you should first check one thing and go further with the second one when you know the part you have checked is O.K..

I should change the cylinder 5 and cylinder 1 injectors first. 
Put also a clean plug, from cylinder 2 in cylinder 5.
Check the spark plugs after a longer distance ride.
When the injector is the culprit, the cylinder 5 plug should look "normal" after the ride while the cylinder 1 plug should look dirty.
This costs you nothing more than a little time by changing the parts!


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## Newparts.com (Jul 12, 2017)

Ronny Bensys said:


> Thank you for the information. Can you please clarify 0.25 in/Hg?
> 
> Is it absolute pressure measured with the gauge or the difference btw. crankcase and the athmospheric pressure?
> 
> If it is absolute pressure, then the crankcase vacuum turns out to be very strong.



It is gauge pressure, so if the gauge is not connected to anything and it is reading atmospheric pressure it will show 0. When you put it into the dipstick tube the needle should only drop a slightly, about 1/4 in/Hg. In comparison, if you measured intake manifold vacuum at idle the needle should drop to somewhere around 17-22 in/Hg.


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## afawal2014 (Jul 13, 2016)

Another way to quickly test the PCV system is this:

While the car is running, try to remove the engine oil filler cap. It should come off easily, but you should also feel some suction as well. If it takes a bit of effort or more, then you have an issue with your PCV. Also, if you feel air blowing out, then that's an issue as well.

With the cap removed, the idle can become a little erratic.

Keep us posted.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

stef 4x4 said:


> When the injector is the culprit, the cylinder 5 plug should look "normal" after the ride while the cylinder 1 plug should look dirty.


Hi. Can you please explain the theory behind?


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Newparts.com said:


> It is gauge pressure, so if the gauge is not connected to anything and it is reading atmospheric pressure it will show 0. When you put it into the dipstick tube the needle should only drop a slightly, about 1/4 in/Hg. In comparison, if you measured intake manifold vacuum at idle the needle should drop to somewhere around 17-22 in/Hg.


Thanks. The drop is so small that I cannot measure it with a European gauge. It is equal to 0.0084 atm which is not anything near a SI gauge can show unless I use a digital one.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Pulled the diaphragm tonight and of course cracked it so glad I had a new one. There is a small tear in the diaphragm itself. I don't think it happened from taking it off. Going to see what happens tomorrow with the new diaphragm on. Either way might as well order the valve cover as I know the doorman replacement doesn't last long

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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Keep attention to your oil level. Oil in the intake is a clear sign of overfill.


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

Ronny Bensys said:


> Hi. Can you please explain the theory behind?


It was you who supposed there was an injector leaking (your reply 04-28-2018).
you concluded this from the spark plug pictures.
Putting the supposed leaking injector at another place in the fuelrail must give another plug image if the injector is leaking.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

stef 4x4 said:


> It was you who supposed there was an injector leaking (your reply 04-28-2018).
> you concluded this from the spark plug pictures.
> Putting the supposed leaking injector at another place in the fuelrail must give another plug image if the injector is leaking.


Thanks. I get the idea. So we can test the suspect injector at an other cylinder. If the plug gets fouled then we can conclude that the injector is bad.


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

Ronny Bensys said:


> Thanks. I get the idea. So we can test the suspect injector at an other cylinder. If the plug gets fouled then we can conclude that the injector is bad.


That is right.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Well 30 mile trip today and smoke. Now I haven't cleaned out the intake yet so possibility the oil that's resting in there is burning off? When it starts smoking acceleration is rough. Once up to speed the smoking stops and it smooths out until of course you slow down or stop



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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Anyone have or seen a write up they can link on how to swap the injectors? 

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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Kona0915 said:


> Well 30 mile trip today and smoke. Now I haven't cleaned out the intake yet so possibility the oil that's resting in there is burning off? When it starts smoking acceleration is rough
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk




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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> Anyone have or seen a write up they can link on how to swap the injectors?


I haven't seen a DIY for removal/installation of injectors. Basicly you need to remove the fuel rail and replace the injectors and sealings. Before that you have to remove fuel pump circuit fuse to prevent it from priming.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

So a bit of good news. Car ride home and no smoke. Actually trip home was longer than going in so based on recent history it should have been bellowing smoke and not one puff I saw. Will test more this weekend and update 

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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

You'll notice less smoke as the weather is getting warmer there.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Yeah so much for improvement. Drove to work and smoked like a chimney when I got off the highway. New valve cover should be in the next day or two see what happens after I do that clean the throttle body in the air intake

What amazes me in all this is my MPG hasn't suffered a bit

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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Kona0915 said:


> What amazes me in all this is my MPG hasn't suffered a bit


The MPG will not suffer as I said it will mainly affect fuel consumption at lower speeds and at idle. At higher speeds, the fraction of excess fuel is small compared to total consumed fuel.

Still, the unburnt fuel is harmful to catalytic converter in long run.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Got the new valve cover in, cleaned the throttle body, took a clean rag and cleaned out the intake the best I could. I did however break the hose coming off the PCV valve that goes down to the intake :banghead: I thought it was more flexible than it was and missed the clamp half way down, pulled it of the PCV and "snap"! Yeah wasn't pissed at all about that. Called VW they want $100 for it and don't have it in stock, so going to do a quick search for it. So once I get the hose then I'll see what happens. Probably not a bad idea to change that hose anyway, had quite a bit of oil in it. Put a new air filter in, swapped out the fouled plug as well.


Edit: Found a hose with 2 day shipping from Europaautorats. Hope to have it Friday. Until then the car sits.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

vwpartsvortex have them for $63. p/n 07K-103-211-B


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Update. Pcv breather hose came in today. Put everything back together and took a test drive tonight. Took my normal route to work as that's been a guarantee route that the smoking happens. Got off the highway and no smoke. Drove another 10 miles down the road after getting off the highway and nothing. Round trip about 80 miles tonight and so far so good. 

To sum up what I did on this
New pcv diaphragm, took old one off and the diaphragm was torn. 
New valve cover
New pcv breather hose (that was my fault broke the old one taking it off. Though it did have a lot of oil residue in it so probably needed replacing anyway)
New spark plug for cylinder 5 that was heavily fouled
New air filter
Cleaned throttle body with appropriate cleaner
Cleaned as much oil out of the air intake as I could

Will continue to monitor and update on the status.

Truly appreciate all the help you all have given!!!

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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Do have to say acceleration feels markedly better. More responsive, guessing that has to do with cleaning the throttle body

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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Good news so far, the smoking has not returned, have made 4 trips of 30 miles or more and no smoking, fingers crossed this continues!!

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## afawal2014 (Jul 13, 2016)

Have you checked your oil level recently. With the amount of smoking you were getting, you are sure to have lost some oil.


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

afawal2014 said:


> Have you checked your oil level recently. With the amount of smoking you were getting, you are sure to have lost some oil.


I checked it when putting everything back together and you are right I did lose some. Still 3/4 full. I didn't want to add anymore until I confirmed the smoking had stopped, figures I address one issue at a time. Going to.give it another day or two then top off

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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Well I'm a week in after putting the new valve cover on and clean g the throttle body and intake and all seems to be going well. Haven't had a single smoke issue since!

Really appreciate all the help fellas!! You guys saved me a ton of money not having to take it to a shop!!

Thanks,
Brian 

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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Thought I'd give and update. Been 5 months and 8ts still working perfectly, no more smoke or rough idles. Thanks again for the help guys!

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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

J.R.Freeman said:


> Well done, I'm glad you got it sorted out! :thumbup:


Thanks, feels good to know it's solved! Repair was easier then I thought it would have been


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

:thumbup: Have you checked spark plugs since the new valve cover yet? Especially 4th and 5th?


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## Kona0915 (Jan 22, 2010)

Ronny Bensys said:


> :thumbup: Have you checked spark plugs since the new valve cover yet? Especially 4th and 5th?


Honestly I have not. Not a bad idea though. Been buried with work, pretty much work, eat, sleep, repeat the past 4 months


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## I_Hate_Volkswagens (Jun 8, 2021)

I am having the same issue. Did you ever figure out what was causing this?


Kona0915 said:


> About a year and a half ago this started. Drove about 30 miles, stopped off some place, got back in the car and white smoke started pouring out the exhaust. Smelled rich. Ended up having it towed to a dealer to check, only thing they came back with was possibly a bad coil pack, nothing else was showing no codes, error lights nothing. I swapped out the coil packs, and no change. A week later the problem just disappeared. Monday (two days ago) it started back up. Drove to work, 30 miles highway, get off the exit hit a stop light and as soon as I start to go plumes of white smoke. Did this Monday, nothing Tuesday and again today. No error lights, ran the torque app and no codes showing. Any thoughts? The video attached shows a little of the smoke, that is no where near the amount that happens after exiting a long highway drive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am having the same issue. Did you ever figure out what was causing this?


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