# Say Hello to the APR TT RS



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I still can't get over how beautiful the TT RS is in real life. Everything about it screams amazing. The engine is no slouch either. Stock, it throws you back in your seat. With only our ECU upgrade, it brutally rips you back into your seat. Still, the pursuit for more power never ends and the 2.5 TFSI is the perfect platform for more. This vehicle has quickly moved to the top of my favorites list and when we're finished, everyone will want this engine. 

Click the image for a full 1920x1200 desktop wallpaper. 




[email protected] said:


> We took possession of the car on Saturday the 10th. The car was ordered in Suzuka Grey with all available options.
> 
> We began product work on the 2.5T last year and released software for the Rest of World (ROW) markets in October. We have already began to verify the software for US launch and expect this to happen soon.
> 
> ...


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

how much will the chip get on the american engine?? over 420 on 93 octane i hope!!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> how much will the chip get on the american engine?? over 420 on 93 octane i hope!!!


We are finalizing all that now.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> I still can't get over how beautiful the TT RS is in real life. Everything about it screams amazing. The engine is no slouch either. Stock, it throws you back in your seat. With only our ECU upgrade, it brutally rips you back into your seat. Still, the pursuit for more power never ends and the 2.5 TFSI is the perfect platform for more. This vehicle has quickly moved to the top of my favorites list and when we're finished, everyone will want this engine.


Nice! Thanks for the update. Can you confirm if there are actually any engine differences in the US-spec CEPB engines that result in more power potential over the original European CEPA models, and what those physical differences are?


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

opcorn: :thumbup:


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## Axel1 (Apr 3, 2005)

Looking forward to the results


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## SKNKWRX (Sep 27, 1999)

Hello!


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

Sweet! :thumbup:

Can't wait - you've got my ECU code.


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## RhoneRanger (Aug 8, 2011)

When can we expect the next update?


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## unclubbedvdub (Jul 19, 2002)

I am very much looking forward to your stage 1 ECU upgrade! I will be first on the list of buyers I can promise you that. So please please please hurry lol


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Aside from the encryption, I wonder if the RS ECU has the same memory limitation as the TTS.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> Aside from the encryption, I wonder if the RS ECU has the same memory limitation as the TTS.


Do tell. I'm new to the TT scene.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

gt2437 said:


> Do tell. I'm new to the TT scene.


The TTS ECU only has enough memory for one program on it. In other words, you can't switch between stock and other programs.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

/thread jack+

Honestly, I would much rather say "Hello!" to the APR TT stage 1 tune for 2011 and newer TT 2.0TFSI's. 

Come on APR. What fraction of TT buyers are TT RS buyers again? I know you're working on it, and I suspect you did the TTRS for the publicity bump, but get the lead out. Bring that stage 1 on the 2.0TFSI already!

/thread jack-


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

MoreGooderTT said:


> /thread jack+
> 
> Honestly, I would much rather say "Hello!" to the APR TT stage 1 tune for 2011 and newer TT 2.0TFSI's.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the input. Next time I'll ask Audi to not deliver our new vehicle till software is ready for all other vehicles. If that's not possible, I'll make sure not to share any photos, even if the vehicle happens to be older (in the ROW) than the new encrypted ECU's in the US.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

MoreGooderTT said:


> /thread jack+
> 
> Honestly, I would much rather say "Hello!" to the APR TT stage 1 tune for 2011 and newer TT 2.0TFSI's.
> 
> ...


dammit you took my post 
x2 to this, again mainly cause i want more power, i know these things take time, and i know VW and Audi have completely F'd up the ECU's to be able to tune them.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

ProjectA3 said:


> dammit you took my post
> x2 to this, again mainly cause i want more power, i know these things take time, and i know VW and Audi have completely F'd up the ECU's to be able to tune them.


Does anyone honestly believe we are not working on it?


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

DrDomm said:


> The TTS ECU only has enough memory for one program on it. In other words, you can't switch between stock and other programs.


Ouch. Thanks for the info. :beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

DrDomm said:


> The TTS ECU only has enough memory for one program on it. In other words, you can't switch between stock and other programs.


We ran into this issue on the MED17 TSI ECU's as well but we were able to rewrite the compression and programming routines to make it work. We are investigating this same technique on the ME9 ECU's.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Does anyone honestly believe we are not working on it?


i know you are working on it, i hope so, you have my ECU file scanned from Goodspeed Performance.


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## MoreGooderTT (Aug 20, 2011)

I, too, know that you're working on it.
Is the issue the new ECU, and the encription that it has to prevent tuning? At least tell us how far along you are, as in "The new ECU encription has been successfully cracked and now we're working on the actual tuning itself". That's what I want to hear, thruth be told. After all, isn't this the same ECU as is used on the 2011 GTI?

I'm very enthusiastic about what you folks do, but I'm also a very impatient person when it comes to things I'm enthusiastic about. At least you know you have me as a customer when it does become available, right?

GO APR! :thumbup::thumbup:


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## RhoneRanger (Aug 8, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Thank you for the input. Next time I'll ask Audi to not deliver our new vehicle till software is ready for all other vehicles. If that's not possible, I'll make sure not to share any photos, even if the vehicle happens to be older (in the ROW) than the new encrypted ECU's in the US.


Evidently, no good deed goes unpunished 

Keep the updates coming :thumbup:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Stage III 600+ hp with flat torque line would be nice to see.

* new bigger Manifold turbo housing.
* bigger K24 instead of K16.
* 4" downpipe into 2x2.5" follow-up.
* Dual 100 cell race cat's.


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## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We ran into this issue on the MED17 TSI ECU's as well but we were able to rewrite the compression and programming routines to make it work. We are investigating this same technique on the ME9 ECU's.



Good to know Arin, thanks! When can we expect to hear the announcement regarding the North American TT RS programming? Two weeks?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Marty said:


> Nice! Thanks for the update. Can you confirm if there are actually any engine differences in the US-spec CEPB engines that result in more power potential over the original European CEPA models, and what those physical differences are?


Bueller?


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

APR won't know this...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Nice! Thanks for the update. Can you confirm if there are actually any engine differences in the US-spec CEPB engines that result in more power potential over the original European CEPA models, and what those physical differences are?


Engine Codes
CEPA = ROW TT RS
CEPB = NA TT RS

CEP = Mechanical version of the engine

A & B = Power Difference via ECU only. 

It's the same engine. The US version just has higher load request. 

-Arin


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Engine Codes
> CEPA = ROW TT RS
> CEPB = NA TT RS
> 
> ...


Thanks for the confirmation. Supposedly there are some mechanical changes listed for the CEPB in the ETKA, such as different crankshaft and flywheel part numbers. Maybe these just minor revs and aren't related to major changes.


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## Jet jockey (Sep 20, 2011)

I'd expect close to 450hp and 650nm of tq


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Ar[email protected] said:


> Engine Codes
> CEPA = ROW TT RS
> CEPB = NA TT RS
> 
> ...


You have CEPA, CEPA V2 and you have CEPB.
A lot of changes where made with the CEPA V2 engine.

*Changes in German.*

Motor CEPA oder CEPA V2?
Hallo, um herauszufinden ab wann der neuere CEPA V2 Motor im TTRS verbaut wurde mache ich folgenden Thread auf.

In einen anderen Forum sind folgende Fakten gepostet worden:


Änderung der Werks-Verbrauchsangaben:


CEPA, 6-Gang (ab Frühjahr 2009 bis Herbst 2010)

Kraftstoffverbrauch kombiniert: 9,2 l

CO2-Emission kombiniert: 214 g/km (EU5)



CEPA V2, 6-Gang (ab Herbst 2010)

Kraftstoffverbrauch kombiniert: 9,0 l

CO2-Emission kombiniert: 209 g/km (EU5)



Ich konnte in Erfahrung bringen, dass der CEPA V2 ab dem 23.08.2010 im Werk verbaut wurde, natürlich dauert es dann noch Wochen bis zur Erstzulassung. 

Bei folgenden Komponenten wurden die Teilenummern geändert: 


- Kurbelgehäuse

- Injektor Kolbenkühlung

- Zylinderkopf

- Kurbelwelle

- Kolben

- Ölpumpe + Regelventil

- Ölmessstab

- Kraftstoffleiste mit Einspritzventilen

- Abgas Temperaturfühler im Turbo


Desweiteren folgende teilenummern die von aussen ablesbar sind:

CEPA 

Zylinderkopf: 07K103063K

Ölmessstab: 07K115611K



CEPA V2 

Zylinderkopf: 07K103063L

Ölmessstab: 07K115611L


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

That doesn't follow Audi's engine code naming convention so I would not be surprised if the parts have no major differences.


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## vw_fiend (Jul 28, 2000)

Thanks for the wallpaper! Can't wait to see where you go with this project. Loooove this engine!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We are finalizing all that now.


Any updates 2 weeks later?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Any updates 2 weeks later?


If you visit Petit le Mans, I'll let you "hear" one.


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## unclubbedvdub (Jul 19, 2002)

Big thanks to Arin and the crew at APR. I was down for my 8th year in a row at H2Oi and this time I had the new beast out down there. 

Arin met me on Friday and offered to let me park the beast at the APR tent which = Awesome. Lots of looks and compliments plus 1st place in my class (the one and only in my class lol)

Let me say after a few chats with the crew the things they have planned are going to be phenomenal no doubt about it. I know it will be well worth the wait to see some of the outstanding products coming from these guys in the near future.


Stage 1 ECU with my name on it!!!! I can not wait..


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## Carl_TTRS (Sep 12, 2011)

I was at H2Oi and saw your car. Looked sharp! :thumbup:


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## unclubbedvdub (Jul 19, 2002)

Thanks man!

Did you have your car there too?


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## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

unclubbedvdub said:


> Big thanks to Arin and the crew at APR. I was down for my 8th year in a row at H2Oi and this time I had the new beast out down there.
> 
> Arin met me on Friday and offered to let me park the beast at the APR tent which = Awesome. Lots of looks and compliments plus 1st place in my class (the one and only in my class lol)
> 
> ...


I should've entered my car...would've given you a run for your money 

Congrats on the win! I saw you driving by our condo a few times and tried yelling to you, but most of the time you were going too fast


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## Carl_TTRS (Sep 12, 2011)

Yep, I brought my car down as well. It was a lot of fun just cruising Intercoastal Hwy. Received a lot of neck snaps, stares, and thumbs up. I saw a couple of folks taking pictures of my car, but I didn't see any get posted on the vortex site. I didn't enter my car in the show, so on Sunday, I parked out in BFE in the far corner of the school parking lot. No way I was parking in the "mud pit". Lots of horror stories about that. All in all, I had a blast hanging out with existing friends and new friends who all have a passion for cars.

Edit: Looking through some of the posted pictures, looks like someone brought down a Suzuka Gray w/Titanium Package. Couldn't quite make it out, but looked like MA tags. And now looking at above post, looks like it was bsmack!


Had I known APR was divulging state secrets, I would've spent more time at their tent!

I'm also anxiously awaiting the ECU upgrade and will be in line right in line behind you. Heck, I'm anxiously awaiting the full Stage 3 kit. It might be worth a road trip to Road Atlanta to "hear" what's in store.


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## SKNKWRX (Sep 27, 1999)

Jelly wish I could have come out I dont meet any TT enthusiasts around here. Kickass cars!


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## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

Carl_TTRS said:


> Yep, I brought my car down as well. It was a lot of fun just cruising Intercoastal Hwy. Received a lot of neck snaps, stares, and thumbs up. I saw a couple of folks taking pictures of my car, but I didn't see any get posted on the vortex site. I didn't enter my car in the show, so on Sunday, I parked out in BFE in the far corner of the school parking lot. No way I was parking in the "mud pit". Lots of horror stories about that. All in all, I had a blast hanging out with existing friends and new friends who all have a passion for cars.
> 
> Edit: Looking through some of the posted pictures, looks like someone brought down a Suzuka Gray w/Titanium Package. Couldn't quite make it out, but looked like MA tags. And now looking at above post, looks like it was bsmack!
> 
> ...


Can you post the pics you've found of my car? I've been digging through the forum and have only found a couple.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

unclubbedvdub said:


> Big thanks to Arin and the crew at APR. I was down for my 8th year in a row at H2Oi and this time I had the new beast out down there.
> 
> Arin met me on Friday and offered to let me park the beast at the APR tent which = Awesome. Lots of looks and compliments plus 1st place in my class (the one and only in my class lol)
> 
> ...


Thank you again for letting us show of your TT RS in our booth. We were hoping to have ours put back together by the event but it just was not possible!


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## bluestang50 (Aug 19, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> If you visit Petit le Mans, I'll let you "hear" one.


Will this update be available to "hear" on Friday and Saturday?


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## Carl_TTRS (Sep 12, 2011)

bsmack said:


> Can you post the pics you've found of my car? I've been digging through the forum and have only found a couple.


Here's a thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5444788-My-2011-H2oi-photos-heavy-roller-content

Here's the specific FB pic (note the commentary  http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....405103.665420271&type=1&l=49231d6d9d&theater

Here's another thread (Post #9): http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5445492-My-H20-pictures....


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

bluestang50 said:


> Will this update be available to "hear" on Friday and Saturday?


Yup


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## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

Carl_TTRS said:


> Here's a thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5444788-My-2011-H2oi-photos-heavy-roller-content
> 
> Here's the specific FB pic (note the commentary  http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f....405103.665420271&type=1&l=49231d6d9d&theater
> 
> Here's another thread (Post #9): http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5445492-My-H20-pictures....


Thanks Carl! Next year we need to plan a TTRS meet/cruise.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

C'mon APR, have any more teaser info for us??


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> If you visit Petit le Mans, I'll let you "hear" one.


 Okay. Petit le Mans has come and gone. Where's the YouTube video?  

- Jeremy -


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## bluestang50 (Aug 19, 2011)

I saw it both Friday and Saturday... Unfortunately they didn't have the key around Friday when I stopped by and Saturday they were swamped. The guy i talked to on Friday said it had an exhaust and the ECU tuned. He told me the power figures, but I am not too sure I believe his quoted awhp and tq numbers. If he wasn't kidding me then the RS owners are in for a serious treat.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

lol was it so hard to type out the numbers cause you know people like me are gonna ask you anyway...


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## Jet jockey (Sep 20, 2011)

bluestang50 said:


> I saw it both Friday and Saturday... Unfortunately they didn't have the key around Friday when I stopped by and Saturday they were swamped. The guy i talked to on Friday said it had an exhaust and the ECU tuned. He told me the power figures, but I am not too sure I believe his quoted awhp and tq numbers. If he wasn't kidding me then the RS owners are in for a serious treat.
> 
> So what were the figures quoted then?
> 
> ...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

bluestang50 said:


> I saw it both Friday and Saturday... Unfortunately they didn't have the key around Friday when I stopped by and Saturday they were swamped. The guy i talked to on Friday said it had an exhaust and the ECU tuned. He told me the power figures, but I am not too sure I believe his quoted awhp and tq numbers. If he wasn't kidding me then the RS owners are in for a serious treat.


 If you spoke to me I probably only gave you peak torque figures, and those figures were at the front wheels, not all 4. The dyno pods are not mechanically linked. Typically we don't run haldex cars in quattro mode because there's a chance you can damage the system since they can turn at different rates. 




- Jeremy - said:


> Okay. Petit le Mans has come and gone. Where's the YouTube video?
> 
> - Jeremy -


 I planned to make a nice video but maybe I can grab a 'teaser'. Trust me, I'm swamped. I've been on the road for 3 weeks now, had a billion PM's and emails (even though I tried to answer them all while on the road) and I'm not getting ready for the BBQ this weekend while trying to launch several products. :laugh: :laugh: 



tdi-bart said:


> lol was it so hard to type out the numbers cause you know people like me are gonna ask you anyway...


 The figures are not final yet and we still have more tuning work to complete. But here is a 'tease' of the front wheel torque. (feel free to beat me up for this one, lol). :laugh:


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

So you're basically saying that flywheel torque is around 500ftlbs? Seriously?

And what about the encryption/security built into this ECU? Cracked?


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

ok and now more importantly is hp over 420?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Details are all in the works now guys! I'll update as soon as I have solid information.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

ok i suppose we can settle for later this afternoon


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Details are all in the works now guys! I'll update as soon as I have solid information.


 Sounds good. Could you talk to the guy who makes the power plots for your website and ask him to plot the power on a graph where the Y axis actually starts at *zero*, and has sensical ticks? 

Check out this as an example: 










The Y axis starts at 160 hp, and the vertical ticks are every 72 hp. :screwy:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Sounds good. Could you talk to the guy who makes the power plots for your website and ask him to plot the power on a graph where the Y axis actually starts at *zero*, and has sensical ticks?
> 
> The Y axis starts at 160 hp, and the vertical ticks are every 72 hp. :screwy:


 All graphs are based on a 5x5 grid.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Marty said:


> Sounds good. Could you talk to the guy who makes the power plots for your website and ask him to plot the power on a graph where the Y axis actually starts at *zero*, and has sensical ticks?
> 
> Check out this as an example:
> 
> ...


 I was almost ready to throw APR under the bus and get Revo because of the graph layout. I finally just imported the data into Excel so I could have a sensible format and it's so much better. I don't know why they stick with this 5x5 layout.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> All graphs are based on a 5x5 grid.


 If you guys love 5x5 at the expense of clear technical data presentation to your customers, that's up to you obviously: but perhaps consider making the vertical axis 0-500 hp in 100 hp increments, and picking a nice RPM starting and ending point to make it evenly divided by 5.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Here's a teaser of our upcoming RSC Catback Exhaust system. 

Reflective Sound Cancellation allows for maximum exhaust gas flow while completely eliminating in cabin sound resonance (drone). RSC™ incorporates innovative technologies developed in conjunction with NASA. With limited use of packing materials and no baffles, RSC™ allows for a completely straight and free flowing exhaust path through the RSC™ mufflers. Reflective Sound Cancellation bounces the undesirable sound waves into each other to attenuate the wave and completely eliminate the low frequency tones that create drone. Each RSC™ muffler is tuned to eliminate specific, undesirable sound frequencies allowing only the engine's desirable exhaust notes to be heard and improving performance. 

RSC works so well, we were able to reduce interior drone by as much as 10dB less than stock. 

For our European friends, you'll be pleased to know we've tested sound levels to be in compliance to the latest European standards. 

The TT RS also features very attractive silver and diamond black exhaust tips from the factory. The APR RSC Exhaust system will allow you to keep these in place if you choose. 

We are currently wrapping up development of a full turboback system and the final system with retain use of the factory Sport button, so stay tuned for new updates! 

Enjoy!


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## SKNKWRX (Sep 27, 1999)

Sounds fantastic!


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

What size piping is used from front to end. ? 
Or is this another 76mm system.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

:thumbup:


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Here's a teaser of our upcoming RSC Catback Exhaust system.
> 
> Reflective Sound Cancellation allows for maximum exhaust gas flow while completely eliminating in cabin sound resonance (drone). RSC™ incorporates innovative technologies developed in conjunction with NASA. With limited use of packing materials and no baffles, RSC™ allows for a completely straight and free flowing exhaust path through the RSC™ mufflers. Reflective Sound Cancellation bounces the undesirable sound waves into each other to attenuate the wave and completely eliminate the low frequency tones that create drone. Each RSC™ muffler is tuned to eliminate specific, undesirable sound frequencies allowing only the engine's desirable exhaust notes to be heard and improving performance.
> 
> ...


 Not bad. Do you know how much louder it is than stock or stock sport? In measured DB values. 

- Jeremy -


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

- Jeremy - said:


> Not bad. Do you know how much louder it is than stock or stock sport? In measured DB values.
> 
> - Jeremy -


 Once we have the bypass valve installed, I'll be able to get you full on sport mode vs non sport mode sound levels. 

I do know, wide open, interior drone is 10dB less than stock.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Once we have the bypass valve installed, I'll be able to get you full on sport mode vs non sport mode sound levels.
> 
> I do know, wide open, interior drone is 10dB less than stock.


 Great technology, but it's not for me. I want 10dB louder. Inside and out.  

Just gimme some straight pipes  

- Jeremy -


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I do know, wide open, interior drone is 10dB less than stock.


 I was under the impression that the RSC tech was intended to reduce drone at cruising throttle openings. Does anyone really care about drone at WOT?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

- Jeremy - said:


> Great technology, but it's not for me. I want 10dB louder. Inside and out.
> 
> Just gimme some straight pipes
> 
> - Jeremy -


 The exhaust IS louder than stock and IS a straight pipe. The only sound that's quieter than stock are the unwanted frequencies known as drone. RSC technology cancels out those frequencies. 

I'm not aware of anyone who want's drone!


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not aware of anyone who want's drone!


 :wave:


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## neonova6 (Aug 26, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not aware of anyone who want's drone!


 Are these not the drones we're looking for? ... These aren't the drones we're looking for! 

Ok, I'll let myself out. . .


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> The exhaust IS louder than stock and IS a straight pipe. The only sound that's quieter than stock are the unwanted frequencies known as drone. RSC technology cancels out those frequencies.
> 
> I'm not aware of anyone who want's drone!


 I totally get what you're trying to do and think it's great. Loud when you mash the loud pedal, quiet when you're cruising along at highway speeds. 
Here in Texas, I'm always baffled when I pass by a pickup truck at 70mph that's WAY loud to me even with the windows up. I can only imagine what it sounds like inside the vehicle. 
I'll be a player if the price is right. Maybe I'm naive but when I saw the almost $2K prices for Milltek's, I said no way. I understand the economy of scale, i.e. more common cars that sell more parts get them cheaper, but I'm still not willing to pay $2k for an exhaust on my $60K car.


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## neonova6 (Aug 26, 2011)

mtbscoTT said:


> I understand the economy of scale, i.e. more common cars that sell more parts get them cheaper, but I'm still not willing to pay $2k for an exhaust on my $60K car.


 :thumbup::thumbup: Couldn't agree more. 

I should add though, this decision is harder to make when one can't experience the difference it makes in person before committing.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Any chip updates?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Any chip updates?


I'll be sure to update everyone as soon as I have more information!


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i suggest the chip disables the lazy throttle response and leaves the sharper sport mode throttle on even when sport mode is disabled... kinda annoying driving in both modes once you turn sport off


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## RhoneRanger (Aug 8, 2011)

tdi-bart said:


> i suggest the chip disables the lazy throttle response and leaves the sharper sport mode throttle on even when sport mode is disabled... kinda annoying driving in both modes once you turn sport off


I find it nearly impossible to drive smoothly in sport mode because of the binary throttle characteristics introduced by the sport button. Longer throttle travel for the same throttle input = more throttle control. I say drop it completely and we would all be better drivers on track!


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

RhoneRanger said:


> I find it nearly impossible to drive smoothly in sport mode because of the binary throttle characteristics introduced by the sport button. Longer throttle travel for the same throttle input = more throttle control. I say drop it completely and we would all be better drivers on track!


I think that's exactly what a few of the chips in Europe do (MRC, Revo, maybe even APR)


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

I agree that the throttle response in S mode makes it difficult to navigate parking lots smoothly, but if I get an ECU flash (which I will) I don't want one that makes the car feel sluggish from a stop.


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

I like sport mode for the extra exhaust noise, and I like the extra suspension firmness for a twisty road section. I DO NOT like the super quick throttle response, I think it detracts from the car's driveability. I also do not like the "hobby horse" feel of the suspension for normal driving on my city's streets in sport mode, the regular suspension is more than adequate for day to day driving, I'll leave sport mode to spirited country roads, track days, and autocross.
This "artificial" throttle response thing with sport buttons is not new, and it's not universal across the board. My E46 M3 had it and it was about the same as the RS's, it made driving the car jumpy, not smoother. My Z4M Coupe with the same engine felt much better in sport mode, quicker reflexes but not as abrupt. Weirdly, my MINI stumbles from a standing start, but feels great in sport mode, so it's the only car I've ever had that I keep it on all the time.
In my perfect world, the sport button would firm up the suspension only, the exhaust would have its own "loud" button, and the throttle response would stay in base mode all the time. Maybe a chip tune can cure at least one of those issues, I plan on trying one of the manual exhaust methods to see if I can live with it louder all the time.

PS: I think that most of the complaints about Hill Assist center around its use in conjunction with sport mode throttle. I have never stalled my car in regular mode, with or without Hill Assist working, but I have stalled my car pulling away in sport mode, even on level ground.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

This is all good input guys! Keep it coming!


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

I'm another one who would prefer separate 'sport' and 'suspension' buttons. Sort of like Porsche does with the 'sport', 'sport plus', and 'PASM' controls. For me, the perfect solution would be sport exhaust always on, sport steering response always on, sport throttle response always on. The suspension would be the only user-selectable variable. Normal mode is perfect for all but the smoothest roads. Sport mode is great for track use.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Dr. Bill said:


> I'm another one who would prefer separate 'sport' and 'suspension' buttons. Sort of like Porsche does with the 'sport', 'sport plus', and 'PASM' controls. For me, the perfect solution would be sport exhaust always on, sport steering response always on, sport throttle response always on. The suspension would be the only user-selectable variable. Normal mode is perfect for all but the smoothest roads. Sport mode is great for track use.


I agree with this combo.


----------



## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

Hmmmm


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Someone's enjoying a their TTRS a little more right now. ;-)


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## orlanderlv (Sep 7, 2011)

There's this problem I have that maybe the guys at APR can help me out with.

See, I have this money in my pocket and it's burning a big hole in my jeans, just waiting for this tune. Can you guys help out? I'm in Vegas and it's hot enough here without having to worry about this money.


----------



## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

orlanderlv said:


> There's this problem I have that maybe the guys at APR can help me out with.
> 
> See, I have this money in my pocket and it's burning a big hole in my jeans, just waiting for this tune. Can you guys help out? I'm in Vegas and it's hot enough here without having to worry about this money.


I think there are plenty of folks in Vegas who will be happy to relieve you of your excess cash! :laugh:


----------



## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

Dr. Bill said:


> I'm another one who would prefer separate 'sport' and 'suspension' buttons. Sort of like Porsche does with the 'sport', 'sport plus', and 'PASM' controls. For me, the perfect solution would be sport exhaust always on, sport steering response always on, sport throttle response always on. The suspension would be the only user-selectable variable. Normal mode is perfect for all but the smoothest roads. Sport mode is great for track use.


Maybe in the next generation - because you can do that with MMI on other Audi's like the S4. Without the integrated electronics available on the A platform cars - it just isn't going to happen.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

vw decided to put the sports mode together with the mag ride, normally there used to be a separate mag ride button in the older TTs (before sport button)

also please remove the 280km/h limiter we get 

as for the throttle, i have gotten used to the sport mode throttle as i drive with sports mode on all the time except when the roads really get crappy, but i suppose i can get used to it in the normal setting too if you were to pick one setting for both sports and non-sport mode. however plz leave the rest of the adjustments alone (exhaust, magride, steering)


----------



## TT--AUDI--S4 (May 11, 2004)

*Toggle Feature for Sport mode button?*



RhoneRanger said:


> I find it nearly impossible to drive smoothly in sport mode because of the binary throttle characteristics introduced by the sport button. Longer throttle travel for the same throttle input = more throttle control. I say drop it completely and we would all be better drivers on track!


Agreed.

The sport button is entertaining but I'd like to see a feature that makes the Sport button a multi-state toggle control for the 3 related systems (throttle, suspension, and exhaust).

For instance...

Push Sport button once you get the standard sport mode with
-sharpened throttle response 
-shocks firm up
-exhaust gets louder

Push the Sport button again and then you get
-standard throttle response back (removes sharpened throttle response)
-shocks stay firm (no change)
-exhaust stays loud(no change)

Push the Sport button again and then you get
-standard throttle response back (no change)
-shocks go back to non-sport mode operation (removes firm shock state)
-exhaust stays loud (no change)

Push the Sport button one more time and you get back to non-sport mode for all three.

What do you say Arin?


----------



## TT--AUDI--S4 (May 11, 2004)

Dr. Bill said:


> I'm another one who would prefer separate 'sport' and 'suspension' buttons. Sort of like Porsche does with the 'sport', 'sport plus', and 'PASM' controls. For me, the perfect solution would be sport exhaust always on, sport steering response always on, sport throttle response always on. The suspension would be the only user-selectable variable. Normal mode is perfect for all but the smoothest roads. Sport mode is great for track use.


Yes, this another take of what I was referring to.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

TT--AUDI--S4 said:


> Agreed.
> 
> The sport button is entertaining but I'd like to see a feature that makes the Sport button a multi-state toggle control for the 3 related systems (throttle, suspension, and exhaust).
> 
> ...


interesting idea, i believe heavier steering is also present with sports button

i am used to the sharper throttle already, but ya pushing sport button would be nice with it bringing up a list of options active in the cluster display

for me i would be fine with sports button only turning on/off magride, and the rest options staying in sport all the time...


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Last year I emailed APR about creating software that would allow for these "custom" settings. I thought there would be many people who would be interested. Maybe this thread will highlight that.


----------



## TT--AUDI--S4 (May 11, 2004)

DrDomm said:


> Last year I emailed APR about creating software that would allow for these "custom" settings. I thought there would be many people who would be interested. Maybe this thread will highlight that.


I was a bit behind on this thread when I posted above and then pleasantly surprised to see others posting the same thing.

This ability to turn off the magnetic ride shocks would be my first priority to enjoy the Sport mode around town. That sport setting for the shocks is just too damn firm for most roads around here.

The ability to change the throttle sensitivity would also be useful, but not nearly as much as the shock stiffness.

Scale of 1 - 10, where 10 is most important and 1 is not important at all, here are my weighted priorities for adjusment capability...

Shocks: 10!


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

updates apr??

ALSO plz make a vid of apr b8 s4 vs apr ttrs!!!!!!!! opcorn:


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

helllloooooo

i heard dec 2011 is when your new flash tool becomes available, so we can expect ttrs software at a local dealer then?

also will a carbonio be made for the ttrs?

thx


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> helllloooooo
> 
> i heard dec 2011 is when your new flash tool becomes available, so we can expect ttrs software at a local dealer then?


That's the plan so I'll update as we get closer. 



> also will a carbonio be made for the ttrs?
> 
> thx


Yes! We have one in development now.


----------



## bluestang50 (Aug 19, 2011)

APR's dyno numbers and chart for the TT-RS

http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_25tfsi_ttrs.html

403 hp 462 tq


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## Dr. Bill (May 15, 2011)

bluestang50 said:


> APR's dyno numbers and chart for the TT-RS
> 
> http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_25tfsi_ttrs.html
> 
> 403 hp 462 tq


That's the Euro-version data that's been out for a while. The NA version is still pending. . .


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

ok i got used to driving around in non-sport mode, so like most others requested, have the chip disable sharper throttle when going to sport mode if you are planning on doing so


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

hello apr, updatessssssss

also vid of tuned ttrs vs tuned s4 PLZ


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> hello apr, updatessssssss
> 
> also vid of tuned ttrs vs tuned s4 PLZ


We are still in the middle of several TTRS development projects. I cannot release any updates yet.


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> We are still in the middle of several TTRS development projects. I cannot release any updates yet.


Well, aren't you the party pooper!!!  Sure you can release updates, come on, you can do it.

I don't have a TTRS yet and I'm already stuck doing the APR-two-step....


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

as350 said:


> Well, aren't you the party pooper!!!  Sure you can release updates, come on, you can do it.
> 
> I don't have a TTRS yet and I'm already stuck doing the APR-two-step....


Update: Our TTRS is on a lift with test parts on it. Hardware for flashing the ECU is not ready yet but we expect something around Christmas.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

better thx, now plz make that vid :laugh:


----------



## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Update: Our TTRS is on a lift with test parts on it. Hardware for flashing the ECU is not ready yet but we expect something around Christmas.


LOL, thanks for the update


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

as350 said:


> Well, aren't you the party pooper!!!  Sure you can release updates, come on, you can do it.
> 
> I don't have a TTRS yet and I'm already stuck doing the APR-two-step....


Ja Ja Where is the "Like" button.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

ok its been almost a week, new update time!

also wondering will it be a hybrid turbo you are making for the ttrs, just like the s3/r and recent 1.8 tfsi conversion? i hope for a nice PnP solution... not like the old generic turbo kits where there was all that hardware you had to replace...

below is a ready to go turbo good for 500hp just needs someone to make a file :laugh:

http://www.loba-motorsport.com/prod...t-fsi-250-kw-340-ps-quattro/lo500p-turbolader


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

New up-dates. 

http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?5482529-The-APR-SLA....


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

tdi-bart said:


> ok its been almost a week, new update time!
> 
> also wondering will it be a hybrid turbo you are making for the ttrs, just like the s3/r and recent 1.8 tfsi conversion? i hope for a nice PnP solution... not like the old generic turbo kits where there was all that hardware you had to replace...
> 
> ...


A hybrid is a waste of money IMHO.
To much cost for to little power gain over a OEM turbo totally tuned to the maxx.
440-460 hp could be achieved if you optimised everything, like software, airbox, cat's, exhaust, cams, fuel system, intercooler and so on.
Spending another 4000,- for a hybrid turbo and getting up to 500 is not worth it IMHO.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

well then make a hybrid that gets 600  then its worth it


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

No way on the hybrid! This will be a proper stage 3 turbocharger system.










:laugh:


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so ready next month with chip?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> so ready next month with chip?


I think so. That was the plan!


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

I'm sorry, is this what we are waiting on? Is this vehicle also "chipped" or is this strictly the result of the APR altered exhaust system? If the later, then hurry the hell up. The free flow and sharper acceleration is clearly obvious in the video. Man is my wife going to want to kill me in a few months.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i think we are waiting on new hardware to port flash our cars? otherwise ask apr if you can ship them your ecu...

i think software is done, but apr hasn't posted a graph yet


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> No way on the hybrid! This will be a proper stage 3 turbocharger system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can you show more manifold pictures. ?


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

tdi-bart said:


> well then make a hybrid that gets 600  then its worth it


You can put on a bigger compressor and get 580 hp out of it, but you add turbo lag as well.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The biggest issue with the hybrid turbos in my opinion is related reliability. The hot side is designed for very quick spool and as such the turbo spools up quickly and power peeks early, then drops off. Pushing the turbo harder and harder though such a small and thin point creates excessive EGT's. I know of some people who've destroyed TTRS engines by pushing these turbos well beyond their manufactured limits. That's against our corporate philosophy, so we are doing thing's the right way.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Hybrid's played out @ 6000 rpm.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

hello arin, updates, chip this month soon??


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> hello arin, updates, chip this month soon??


I'm in Europe right now but I'll be able to get more updates when I return.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so are we back yet


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> so are we back yet


I'm back, but I'm not ready to post anything yet.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Are there any exhaust picture that can be showed. ???


----------



## systemz (Mar 15, 2009)

You have to get this package out! I'm picking up my TTRS Today! need an APR reflash ASAP!


----------



## nj_v-dub (Aug 27, 2008)

ECU?


----------



## nj_v-dub (Aug 27, 2008)

It's waiting, or CH-R's


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Another business week has come and gone. One more week until Christmas.

Any progress? I know what the answer is I suppose or you, Arin, would have said something.

But, we established the expectation. We know someone is running some nice performance enhancements and some of us are more than anxious to see the goods.

Quando, quando, when?

Can you throw us a bone?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

I heard APR is having technical difficulties with the USDM TTRS reflashes, so the release is delayed.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We are not having difficulties with flashing the ECU in house, we are simply finishing up the tools our dealers will need to flash the ECU. We expected a December launch, but January is looking more realistic.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Arin:

Is it possible then to give a look at the post flash, 93 octane, "B" spec US version torque/HP curve? Please.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I don't have this information available yet.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Well then,

will you pull for Alabama or LSU? 

Check mate.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm not answering that question, hahaha! :laugh:


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> We are not having difficulties with flashing the ECU in house, we are simply finishing up the tools our dealers will need to flash the ECU. We expected a December launch, but January is looking more realistic.


excellent, soon i will be beating cts-v's more badly 

will this same hardware allow for flashing of the new s4's?


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> I'm not answering that question, hahaha! :laugh:


:thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> excellent, soon i will be beating cts-v's more badly
> 
> will this same hardware allow for flashing of the new s4's?


yes


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so when can we see power graphs for the TTRS, or will they be exactly the same as the australian ones posted on your site?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

It will have to be after the new year and power will not be the same.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

yesssss more power?? :thumbup:


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

tdi-bart said:


> so when can we see power graphs for the TTRS, or will they be exactly the same as the australian ones posted on your site?


I'm expecting LESS power for us 91ACN folks...


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> I'm expecting LESS power for us 91ACN folks...


No less than 95


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> No less than 95


95 RON I assume? 98 RON makes 403hp (projected crank hp I assume) on the APR site for the ROW TT-RS. Then 91 octane in the US (95 RON) must be in the high 300's, which can't much more than stock

I hope you guys aren't putting in a spike-y torque curve to compensate. :/


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Marty said:


> 95 RON I assume? 98 RON makes 403hp (projected crank hp I assume) on the APR site for the ROW TT-RS. Then 91 octane in the US (95 RON) must be in the high 300's, which can't much more than stock
> 
> I hope you guys aren't putting in a spike-y torque curve to compensate. :/


Except the rest of the world gets the CEPA engine and we've got the CEPB and no one is really sure how much of a difference that makes with our rated 360hp vs the Euro 340hp.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Except the rest of the world gets the CEPA engine and we've got the CEPB and no one is really sure how much of a difference that makes with our rated 360hp vs the Euro 340hp.


If you have two engine codes, CEP*A* and CEP*B* then the engines are mechanically identical. The first three letters *CEP* are the engine codes. The last letter *A* or *B* is the power rating.

VW and Audi does this all the time. It's just a small software change, such as raising or limiting engine load.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

If so, I would expect that the post-flash HP/TQ curve will be identical to the A motor, since Audi's programing twicks all ready account for some of the gains APR has accomplished with programming revisions, no?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LongviewTx said:


> If so, I would expect that the post-flash HP/TQ curve will be identical to the A motor, since Audi's programing twicks all ready account for some of the gains APR has accomplished with programming revisions, no?


Since the other graphs were posted we've spent more time on other ROW TTRS and RS3's as well as our own internal US TTRS. The calibration will be different.


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Marvelous, that sounds encouraging.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> If you have two engine codes, CEP*A* and CEP*B* then the engines are mechanically identical. The first three letters *CEP* are the engine codes. The last letter *A* or *B* is the power rating.
> 
> VW and Audi does this all the time. It's just a small software change, such as raising or limiting engine load.


Did not know that, thanks for the info...


You know we're all just poking around this as much as possible to try to get you to spill the beans early


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Since the other graphs were posted we've spent more time on other ROW TTRS and RS3's as well as our own internal US TTRS. The calibration will be different.


i'm still hoping for something with max power being made around redline, i hate power drop off feeling, but we are getting closer!


----------



## kozani (Dec 28, 2006)

Will this program have a standard mode? How many other modes will there be? I don't know if I would purchase it yet if there isn't a standard mode. I don't want to ruin my warranty just yet.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

kozani said:


> Will this program have a standard mode? How many other modes will there be? I don't know if I would purchase it yet if there isn't a standard mode. I don't want to ruin my warranty just yet.


Stage 1 and 2 will be based on the factory turbo, stage 3 is this new bigger turbo.


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

bump for any updates? :beer:


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

hey arin can you clarify if this new hardware will be port flashing first time around or does the ecu need to removed for the first flash? i read different reports

thx


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

My wife told me today that the car is way fast enough as it is. "Why would anybody need it to go any faster?" 

Silly girls, some just don't understand.


----------



## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

LongviewTx said:


> My wife told me today that the car is way fast enough as it is. "Why would anybody need it to go any faster?"
> 
> Silly girls, some just don't understand.


LOL. My wife at the time would make similar statements. She'd even argue about the merits of all the go-fast parts. Now, she is my ex....


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

as350 said:


> LOL. My wife at the time would make similar statements. She'd even argue about the merits of all the go-fast parts. Now, she is my ex....


Hah!

- Jeremy -


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

as350 said:


> Now, she is my ex....


Condolences


----------



## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

LMAO, classic! I cured my wife of any misgivings with all the mods I did to the mkI. When I told her about wanting the HRE wheels, she said..."you should get them, they look cool!" WINNING!:laugh:


----------



## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

as350 said:


> LOL. My wife at the time would make similar statements. She'd even argue about the merits of all the go-fast parts. Now, she is my ex....


My wife is the complete opposite - always wanting to go faster. We hit 70mph on our tandem bicycle and she said - only 70....

She thinks my Stage III+ B5 S4 track car needs more power :screwy:


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Hey guys, I don't have all the answers on flashing quite yet but I do know we are shooting to have everything ready this month (january). I'll have more information when I get back to the office but I will not be in for a full week of office work till the 9th. I'll be on the road testing this:


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> I'll be on the road testing this:


Damn, Dude what a Happy New Year 'till be for you. Be careful and enjoy. But, don't forget us as soon as you get back .


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Hey guys, I don't have all the answers on flashing quite yet but I do know we are shooting to have everything ready this month (january). I'll have more information when I get back to the office but I will not be in for a full week of office work till the 9th. I'll be on the road testing this:


Don't look road legal to me.


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

If the US Spec TT RS is electronically limited at 174MPH for a top speed, what is it realistically capable of (drag limited) with a chip?


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

gt2437 said:


> If the US Spec TT RS is electronically limited at 174MPH for a top speed, what is it realistically capable of (drag limited) with a chip?


I think 174 is without the limiter, that's drag limited with stock horsepower. In the UK folks have seen over 180mph at the Bruntingthorpe V-Max events with Stage 2 tuning (~420hp). I believe the car is gear limited to about 194mph.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

here it is going 192mph


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

Thanks guys! I came across the Road and Track TT RS technical spread (saved this PDF for the collection), as it stated 174MPH at 6400RPM, which was electronically limited. Got me wondering. :beer:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/var/ezf...lication/d4d23236fe88b90965af85cad75962a8.pdf


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

ok apr its 2012, time for some teaser graphs!!!!


----------



## gt2437 (Jul 29, 2000)

tdi-bart said:


> ok apr its 2012, time for some teaser graphs!!!!


:thumbup:

If the Frontier Ace ever comes back on the GPS tracking, it would confirm that I'm on schedule to have my RS next week! I need intake and chip soon!!


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

tdi-bart said:


> here it is going 192mph


192! That's some serious speed. Even if it is a little optimistic.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Full Gallery*
_Click To Enlarge_


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Parathyroid.com???


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Norman's Sponsor.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> *Full Gallery*
> _Click To Enlarge_


btw, some kind of stripping planned for the road TT RS, or will it stay white. ?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> btw, some kind of stripping planned for the road TT RS, or will it stay white. ?


We have something small planned for the TTRS.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> We have something small planned for the TTRS.


Looking forward to it.


----------



## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Norman's Sponsor.


Yeah, it's his medical practice...hope he's careful with the IRS. It's very touchy to write off your racing hobby as an expense to promote your medical practice. Most of us don't take the risk, and just put the decals on for the hell of it.

Beautiful car, though.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so apr how about some new graphs while you package the new hardware for dealers :wave:


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

tdi-bart said:


> so apr how about some new graphs while you package the new hardware for dealers :wave:


And please get a new technical guy to generate the plots! Maybe one that will use sensible axis ticks like 500 RPM / 50hp increments, with the vertical axis starting at *zero*. 

I know, everyone's a critic...


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Indeed on yjr first comment


----------



## TT--AUDI--S4 (May 11, 2004)

After six pages and several months of anticipation and waiting, I'm sorry but I just couldn't help myself.

:laugh:


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

TT--AUDI--S4 said:


> After six pages and several months of anticipation and waiting, I'm sorry but I just couldn't help myself.
> 
> :laugh:


Amen!


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

If anyone is interested in a company just looking to weld a few pipes together and call it a turbo kit, with no software support might I add, then look else where. 

If anyone wants a real engineering company to spend hundreds of hours on a turbo kit for a small market, choose APR.


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

Right on Arin. It takes time and lots of testing to get things right. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Man... this thing is pretty big. It took quite a bit of engineering to make it fit into such as small spot! 


__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## QuattroFever (Sep 5, 2011)

APR....I'm honestly speechless!!! Us enthusiasts don't need a lot of details with pictures likes these. Looks like the wait will pay off big time once complete!!! Keep up the outstanding work!!!


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

QuattroFever said:


> APR....I'm honestly speechless!!! Us enthusiasts don't need a lot of details with pictures likes these.


But us engineers need more detailed pictures  More! 

- Jeremy -


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Man... this thing is pretty big. It took quite a bit of engineering to make it fit into such as small spot!


and I hear there's almost more clearance than with the stock setup


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

- Jeremy - said:


> But us engineers need more detailed pictures  More!
> 
> - Jeremy -


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## QuattroFever (Sep 5, 2011)

- Jeremy - said:


> But us engineers need more detailed pictures  More!
> 
> - Jeremy -



Lol!!! what I meant was that [email protected] was doing a great job with his photo updates. 

I'm an engineer too :thumbup::thumbup:

But ur absolutely right... more detail enhances our anxiousness!!!


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm not an engineer. I just want an ECU flash.

But no rush...I'll prolly wait til spring, anyway.


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

DrDomm said:


> I'm not an engineer. I just want an ECU flash.
> 
> But no rush...I'll prolly wait til spring, anyway.


Yeah, I'm not sure how I'm going to get the flash anyway. Not many APR dealers in Europe and, if there are, they charge approximately 3,213 times the U.S. price. Tuning in Europe is a total scam. I'd ship my ECU, but I'm so in love with the car that I don't want to risk it.

- Jeremy -


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> If anyone is interested in a company just looking to weld a few pipes together and call it a turbo kit, with no software support might I add, then look else where.
> 
> If anyone wants a real engineering company to spend hundreds of hours on a turbo kit for a small market, choose APR.


Arin,

How many miles does your RS have on it? Have you guys pulled the intake manifold? I'm curious if you're seeing any signs of carbon deposits yet.

- Jeremy -


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

- Jeremy - said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure how I'm going to get the flash anyway. Not many APR dealers in Europe and, if there are, they charge approximately 3,213 times the U.S. price. Tuning in Europe is a total scam. I'd ship my ECU, but I'm so in love with the car that I don't want to risk it.
> 
> - Jeremy -


We have established a new facility in the UK which will ultimately drive down costs in all of europe.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We have established a new facility in the UK which will ultimately drive down costs in all of europe.


:heart::heart::heart:

Does that mean I can drive up there, get chipped at the HQ and then take it to Silverstone? 

- Jeremy -


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## conneem-tt (Feb 17, 2008)

- Jeremy - said:


> Arin,
> 
> How many miles does your RS have on it? Have you guys pulled the intake manifold? I'm curious if you're seeing any signs of carbon deposits yet.
> 
> - Jeremy -


Doesn't seem to be as bad as the 2.0T. (Although the 2.0T suffers from build-up I've not seen many suffering performance degradation like the N/A 4.2 does).

Here is a pic from MRC in the UK, minimal deposits but then I'm pretty sure this car was mainly a track toy so driven hard which reduces the chance of deposits.


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

DrDomm said:


> I just want an ECU flash.


Same here. 



[email protected] said:


> With only our ECU upgrade, it brutally rips you back into your seat.


Just to clarify, I am "eagar" for the flash. I somehow had thought that the flash would be available regardless of the market readiness of the above significant hardware modifications.

My appologies to Arin. I will wait patiently from now on.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Busy schedule here at APR! We are working on it all right now.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Loving the machining and CAD shots! Keep 'em coming.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

conneem-tt said:


> Here is a pic from MRC in the UK, minimal deposits but then I'm pretty sure this car was mainly a track toy so driven hard which reduces the chance of deposits.


Still going to suffer from Carbon build up in the long run. Reality is until the next generation TTRS or 2.0 TSI motor comes around , carbon build up will be a way of life


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Does the system have a EGT sensor mounting hole?


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## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

I wasn't planning on extensive mods, but this video from Germany has me rethinking my position. 

I'm guessing that this APR mod is going to be full of win 

APR Stage 1 Nurburgring Testing Audi TTRS 2.5T ...
9 min
APR TT RS RSC Performance Catback Exhaust Systemby:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&q=ht...ND5hNg&usg=AFQjCNGrHrLErfeSZwLzwKZarihU6YYSgw


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

stage 1 reflash as a stand alone "mod" is not really "extensive". Surely ever one will ultimately perform this upgrade, when it becomes available!


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

AppleChilli said:


> I wasn't planning on extensive mods, but this video from Germany has me rethinking my position.
> 
> I'm guessing that this APR mod is going to be full of win
> 
> ...


Woah. Good find! That driver is pretty ham fisted and he doesn't know the track very well. It was also a very heavy traffic day so he couldn't follow the proper lines. 

It's obviously hard to tell from a YouTube video, but the exhaust sounds the same as my Sport exhaust. But I'm sure it sounds a lot better in person. The acceleration also seems deceiving. In the car, you seem to accelerate much faster than on a crappy YouTube video 

I'm sure the APR tune and exhaust are very impressive in person. APR is the only tuner I trust. :beer:

- Jeremy -


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

- Jeremy - said:


> Woah. Good find! That driver is pretty ham fisted and he doesn't know the track very well. It was also a very heavy traffic day so he couldn't follow the proper lines.
> 
> It's obviously hard to tell from a YouTube video, but the exhaust sounds the same as my Sport exhaust. But I'm sure it sounds a lot better in person. The acceleration also seems deceiving. In the car, you seem to accelerate much faster than on a crappy YouTube video
> 
> ...


My sense was also that it is a DSG car. Also noticed that he was shortshifting, and that redline was about 6400. He ate some 911 Turbo's up, though.


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## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

DrDomm said:


> My sense was also that it is a DSG car. Also noticed that he was shortshifting, and that redline was about 6400. He ate some 911 Turbo's up, though.


Oh, it's definitely DSG. And it sounded like he was just driving in Sport mode rather than manual. :screwy:

- Jeremy -


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## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

LongviewTx said:


> stage 1 reflash as a stand alone "mod" is not really "extensive". Surely ever one will ultimately perform this upgrade, when it becomes available!


Unfortunely for me it will be. 



- Jeremy - said:


> Woah. Good find! That driver is pretty ham fisted and he doesn't know the track very well. It was also a very heavy traffic day so he couldn't follow the proper lines.
> 
> It's obviously hard to tell from a YouTube video, but the exhaust sounds the same as my Sport exhaust. But I'm sure it sounds a lot better in person. The acceleration also seems deceiving. In the car, you seem to accelerate much faster than on a crappy YouTube video
> 
> ...


YW - Small contribution to the many. 



DrDomm said:


> My sense was also that it is a DSG car. Also noticed that he was shortshifting, and that redline was about 6400. He ate some 911 Turbo's up, though.


You guys are the experts, I couldn't tell much about the specifics on this. Can't speak German either - maybe we have someone that can help with some interpretations? There seemed to be an occasion or two where they commented on the acceleration... Maybe they will let on to the mods other mods or perhaps show the vehicle a bit more.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Does the system have a EGT sensor mounting hole?


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## TT--AUDI--S4 (May 11, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> Busy schedule here at APR! We are working on it all right now.












It looks like you guys have your hands full. I can appreciate multiple projects going on at once. That's how the company I work for rolls, too. eace:



[email protected] said:


> We are not having difficulties with flashing the ECU in house, we are simply finishing up the tools our dealers will need to flash the ECU. We expected a December launch, but January is looking more realistic.


For the record, I was specifically referring to the uncertainty of the ETA for the APR Stage I flash. And I was mildly poking fun, no harm was meant in the post. 

We all know that you guys rock.

Look fwd to the next APR flash update. :thumbup: 
(no more funny stuff  )


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Any updates on even just the simple Stage 1 chip?


----------



## - Jeremy - (Feb 23, 2006)

AppleChilli said:


> Unfortunely for me it will be.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I speak German, but the guys in the car were speaking Finnish, I think.

- Jeremy -


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

Marty said:


> Any updates on even just the simple Stage 1 chip?


 i 2nd...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Any updates on even just the simple Stage 1 chip?


Yes. The engineers had their hands on it all week again. We had to take a minor break from the car to focus on another one and during this break the shop tore it down again for stage 3 development. The car will be back to stage 1 by next week and hopefully we'll be able to finish up the other octanes by then. 

Here is the shop yesterday. It's controlled chaos right now with 6 race car's being built / finalized for a race next weekend. The TTRS is in the corner getting some fitment love.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> It's controlled chaos right now with 6 race car's being built / finalized for a race next weekend.


"A" race? Daytona? That is not just "a" race.


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## peace (May 5, 1999)

Nice picture! All that VAG hardware makes me tingle! 

I'll be rooting for you guys next week! :heart: Give those guys at Kinetic/KIA Racing hell!! :thumbup:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

So when will the first dyno's take place for the new TT RS Stage 3 turbo. ?


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Man, you guys need to make that camera a live streaming feed to your website.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> So when will the first dyno's take place for the new TT RS Stage 3 turbo. ?


I don't know quite yet. 



LongviewTx said:


> Man, you guys need to make that camera a live streaming feed to your website.


Too many secret projects to do that! Had to cover one up for the photos. :laugh:


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

updatesssssssssssss


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> updatesssssssssssss


 I will when I'm ready. Sorry! Just busy with several projects. TTRS is one of them.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

i snuck in made a vid haha


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

tdi-bart said:


> i snuck in made a vid haha


 Now that can't be good for the Haldex, even with the fuse pulled...  

Are you seriously local to APR? Snoop around and get some inside scoops!


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

nah i found it on youtube 

ya i read somewhere with gen4 haldex the clutches are still going somehow with the fuse pulled, haldex is haldex, but under the hood it says "permanent" awd, exempt from 2wd rolling roads for any kind of federal testing...


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## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

APR sure got that golf r chip out fast! Where's the love bros? :heart:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

bsmack said:


> APR sure got that golf r chip out fast! Where's the love bros? :heart:


 We worked on golf r for years technically as its based off a 2006 S3. 

We also beta tested new code calibrated in person in the UK, Australia, China, Finland and Singspore if I'm not mistaken. I even drove around the Ring in Germany with that code. Us code was installed in the US, verified and flashing was no issues for our guys. 

We are typically fast, but obviously with a $60,000+ car we want everything seamless!


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> ... we want everything seamless!


 Seamless is always good!


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

ok its a new week, time for new updates!!!!!!!!!!! :banghead:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Don't expect anything anytime soon.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

still waiting for 2012 TT software, wheres the development thread for this. 

and im now to the point of sarcasm and sadness because the low volume RS is taking up so much of the fun from the "normal" TT owners.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

ProjectA3 said:


> still waiting for 2012 TT software, wheres the development thread for this.
> 
> and im now to the point of sarcasm and sadness because the low volume RS is taking up so much of the fun from the "normal" TT owners.


 How exactly is the RS taking away fun from the other TT owners? Were you worried that B8 S4 development was taking away from your fun? Or the R8 they campaigned at Daytona this weekend?


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## eptx (Mar 17, 2011)

*hey Arin ever hear of a 2.0 TT*

I have spent a couple of grand with APR over the last two years on my 2009 TT 2.0, I am sure this money has helped finance your developement of your preferred projects. Are you doing anything for us lowly regular TT owners?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

R5T said:


> Don't expect anything anytime soon.


 What makes you say that? Other than the fact that APR must be having tuning issues with the US TT-RS given how long it's been taking...


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

It would seem silly to develop for the RS considering how little payback they would get from it unless Audi expanded their sales of the platform. The 2.0T is where all the cash is... 3.2 as well, but more development costs considering it's not FI to start with. 


QUOTE=JohnLZ7W;75651443]How exactly is the RS taking away fun from the other TT owners? Were you worried that B8 S4 development was taking away from your fun? Or the R8 they campaigned at Daytona this weekend?[/QUOTE]


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> What makes you say that? Other than the fact that APR must be having tuning issues with the US TT-RS given how long it's been taking...


 No tuning issues. Just working on several things at once. Making this available to our dealers will require finishing something up on our end. 




sentari said:


> It would seem silly to develop for the RS considering how little payback they would get from it unless Audi expanded their sales of the platform. The 2.0T is where all the cash is... 3.2 as well, but more development costs considering it's not FI to start with.


 Point taken. 

We'll cancel the project tomorrow. I'll call a meeting and demand it ASAP. 


(Or maybe know stuff other's don't know.  )


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## fjork_duf (Jul 13, 2001)

[email protected] said:


> No tuning issues. Just working on several things at once. Making this available to our dealers will require finishing something up on our end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I think it's already been stated in the news that the next-gen RS3 (or perhaps S3) will be utilizing the same engine. Not to mention the quattro concept. 

I'm guessing the engine COULD end up in a future Golf R also.. So I'm sure the dev dollars won't be wasted


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Next Gen S3 will "NOT" get a 2.5TFSI, just a 2.0TFSI. 
The only interesting rumour is that it could be a bi-charged engine. 
What that does mean i don't know, could be a "Twincharger" or a bi-turbo with a smal and bigger turbo.


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## sentari (Dec 4, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> No tuning issues. Just working on several things at once. Making this available to our dealers will require finishing something up on our end.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I do know! I know that the VR6-T community will have fun with the RS's for quite a while!  I do admit to having a APR tune and a hi-flow cat on our A4 Cab. The 93 program is really nice.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey APR, any updates on the +20 HP / +100 ft-lbs stage 1 tune? (just guessing for 91ACN)


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

Marty said:


> Hey APR, any updates on the +20 HP / +100 ft-lbs stage 1 tune? (just guessing for 91ACN)


i hope its more than 20, at least 40hp..., and closer to 60 with 93


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

It start to look like that APR will take all the time in the world to bring something on the market.
By the time they put it on the market your car is already up for a trade-in. 
I lost all interest.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Sorry. Not bringing it to market unless everything is finished.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry. Not bringing it to market unless everything is finished.


Some of us do appreciate the engineering effort you put into your products :thumbup:


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## J662 (Dec 8, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry. Not bringing it to market unless everything is finished.


I would have to say that I'll look at APR that much closer when i buy exhaust/stage 1 tune. I'd rather a company do it right then put out something half-assed. 👍

Hey Arin, do you know if The APR exhaust and stage 1 tune, for example, would void the Audi warranty? Is Stasis the only company where their products don't void the Audi warranty?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

J662 said:


> I'd rather a company do it right then put out something half-assed.


Agreed. And they do have the experience with the latter (TTS).


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry. Not bringing it to market unless everything is finished.


At risk of getting a heavy handed reply....what exactly isn't finished? Performance parameters for tune not set yet? Delivery method for dealers not finalized? Not releasing basic tune until you also have Stage II and III products? 
Nothing personal intended, but you (APR) have been "teasing" about this for months, and what was set to come out in "by Christmas" still isn't available? That's what's frustrating to people who want to spend their money. 
Since ROW tunes have been out for over a year now, maybe if you elaborated on how/why the US ECU is so different would explain things better.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Part of the delay is centered around our new programming device, which will be used for every type of ECU out there. It's a necessary update which has taken many resources to develop as it's for all ECU's and not just one. This was a critical business decision to make, which ultimately delayed a few product release but it was absolutely necessary. We are launching those tools very shortly and the ECU will follow.

The other delays are simply centered around further product testing and development. We are testing Stage 2 around the world right now which will be available for the US Market as well. 

Stage 3 development is also underway in the states and the ROW. Cars will be running this month.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

J662 said:


> I would have to say that I'll look at APR that much closer when i buy exhaust/stage 1 tune. I'd rather a company do it right then put out something half-assed. 👍
> 
> Hey Arin, do you know if The APR exhaust and stage 1 tune, for example, would void the Audi warranty? Is Stasis the only company where their products don't void the Audi warranty?
> 
> ...


Any of these reflashes can void your warranty for damage that could reasonably be attributed to the higher power output or the changes to the engine control. This is the same for the Stasis chip as well. In the Stasis case, they supposedly offer a supplemental warranty that covers damage related to the chip tuning.

I have a feeling, however, that Stasis would fight tooth and nail against the liability for such a repair (similar to the dealer)... so personally, I wouldn't buy based on that "warranty."


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

tdi-bart said:


> i hope its more than 20, at least 40hp..., and closer to 60 with 93


Well, on 93 octane the APR ROW chip adds 51 hp (on a ROW TT-RS that starts at an Audi-quoted 340 hp). Since we already have 20 more of this hp stock (the US cars are quoted at 360 hp), then this is only a ~31 hp estimated gain on 93 octane.

On 91 octane, I would expect this to drop significantly. So 31 hp drop to 20 hp seemed like a reasonable estimate for a 93 to 91 octane difference.

There's no way you're seeing 60 hp on 93 octane. 

To be fair, the torque gain is huge (as long as you're willing to trade a flat torque curve for a spikey one in exchange for the peak gain).


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## J662 (Dec 8, 2011)

Marty said:


> Any of these reflashes can void your warranty for damage that could reasonably be attributed to the higher power output or the changes to the engine control. This is the same for the Stasis chip as well. In the Stasis case, they supposedly offer a supplemental warranty that covers damage related to the chip tuning.
> 
> I have a feeling, however, that Stasis would fight tooth and nail against the liability for such a repair (similar to the dealer)... so personally, I wouldn't buy based on that "warranty."


Are you sure about that with Stasis? I have been told by multiple dealers that whatever they offer through the dealer is covered under the original Audi warranty. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

J662 said:


> Are you sure about that with Stasis? I have been told by multiple dealers that whatever they offer through the dealer is covered under the original Audi warranty.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just give Audi of America a call and have a chat with them about warranty coverage in this situation.


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## J662 (Dec 8, 2011)

Marty said:


> Just give Audi of America a call and have a chat with them about warranty coverage in this situation.


Good call


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

J662 said:


> Good call
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Be warned that the folks trying to sell you a chip at a privately owned Audi dealer are different than the folks asked to front the bill in the event that warranty coverage is needed (Audi corporate)...


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## J662 (Dec 8, 2011)

Marty said:


> Be warned that the folks trying to sell you a chip at a privately owned Audi dealer are different than the folks asked to front the bill in the event that warranty coverage is needed (Audi corporate)...


From what I've been told by multiple dealers is that Stasis is the only Audi "approved" tuner...I'll be calling Audi America to confirm this. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

In Europe Abt Sportsline is the only Audi "approved" tuner...
You go to your Audi dealer, they remove the ECU, then it get a Abt remap and get placed back in.
You keep full Audi warranty.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

wrong people

stasis is not affiliated with audi usa in any way, if a dealer is offering a stasis chip it is only that particular dealer having an agreement with stasis

audi warranty DOES NOT cover stasis products

if your car explodes, what is supposed to happen is stasis pays to get it fixed, but i read on another forum stasis is not doing so hot financially so...

Q:

_Mr de Nysschen,

Would like to know your thoughts on the relationship between STASIS engeneering and Audi. We have never heard an offical announcement from Audi regarding this relationship pertaining specificaly to Dealerhip sales and manufacturer warranty. Is is safe to say that my new supercharged S4 would be safe from warranty void due to the aftermarket Stasis software? Also that my ownership experence with my facing dealer will remain unchanged due to them not being a Stasis dealer ._

A:

_I personally admire the enthusiasm and ingenuity of the Stasis team. To be clear, there is no connection between Audi and Stasis. Modified powertrain and suspension components void the Audi warranty. It is my understanding that Stasis offer a warranty of their own on such modified components. Those components which are not affected by the modification will continue to be covered by the Audi warranty. Stasis is not an authorized tuner of Audi vehicles. quattro GmbH, a wholly owned subsidiary of Audi AG, is the only producer of modified Audi vehicles which enjoy full factory warranty._


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

Bingo on Stasis. Even if you read their website, you can get a sense of this.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

some feedback on someone running new apr map in europe, basically saying its faster than revo...

http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showpost.php?p=141001&postcount=24


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

tdi-bart said:


> some feedback on someone running new apr map in europe, basically saying its faster than revo...
> 
> http://www.vagoc.co.uk/vb/showpost.php?p=141001&postcount=24


Saying it's faster is the key. Need to wait for their 30-130 day for any objective results.


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Saying it's faster is the key. Need to wait for their 30-130 day for any objective results.


Those guys have been in a pissing match for a few years now. They've done a ton of testing with the RS, and I think Pov's subjective opinion is a good sign.


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

DrDomm said:


> Those guys have been in a pissing match for a few years now. They've done a ton of testing with the RS, and I think Pov's subjective opinion is a good sign.


Yeah except they've been in a pissing match for years with constant one-upsmanship and talk of mods but never any proof to back it up. There are a few folks over there that document what they're doing but then a lot of talkers too. I don't follow everyone over there (mostly 996cab, jonnyc and jamiekip's builds) so I don't remember what Pov's previous experience was.

Having a passenger shriek because you're accelerating towards a bend isn't really a great comparison between tunes


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Good things are coming to the US! I'm glad our UK and European friends are able to share some of the details.


----------



## ThatVdub (May 28, 2010)

DrDomm said:


> Bingo on Stasis. Even if you read their website, you can get a sense of this.


My understanding is that there is no Audi "approved" stasis anything, just that stasis will warranty
any damage their product does to your audi, if it is their fault...iirc... New stasis suspension and 
an immediate busted oil pan = no coverage.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Good things are coming to the US! I'm glad our UK and European friends are able to share some of the details.


How about some more teaser pics from the stage 3 development?


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

or stage 1 updates... maybe finally power numbers?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

tdi-bart said:


> or stage 1 updates... maybe finally power numbers?


I already told you the power numbers!  +20hp and +100ft-lbs peak on 91 ACN fuel.


----------



## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

any idea where the torque peak hits?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

YYC Dubber said:


> any idea where the torque peak hits?


Probably just shy of the peak on the 93-octane ROW tune, so I'd guess ~4000 RPM.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

YYC Dubber said:


> any idea where the torque peak hits?


Just glancing at a few beta numbers, it was around 3600, but from about 2500-4700 RPM's the largest delta is only about 5%.


----------



## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

beta post, beta post, beta post


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

I thought I'd be waiting a while from introduction before I got this flash in the spring, but I might be getting it as soon as it's available (at this rate).


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Saying it's faster is the key. Need to wait for their 30-130 day for any objective results.


already done that myself. New map is quicker.

Regards

Pov


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Yeah except they've been in a pissing match for years with constant one-upsmanship and talk of mods but never any proof to back it up. There are a few folks over there that document what they're doing but then a lot of talkers too. I don't follow everyone over there (mostly 996cab, jonnyc and jamiekip's builds) so I don't remember what Pov's previous experience was.
> 
> *Having a passenger shriek because you're accelerating towards a bend isn't really a great comparison between tunes *


Nothing to do with the tunes you are right, I just mentioned it for entertainment value as alot of the vagoc members know myself and chris personally, and the thought of this big guy screaming is hilarious 

Bit of background on myself for our american friends. Ran a revo stage 2+ 2.0TFSI k04 for 18 months, sold that got the TTRS. Ran AMD stage 1 for a month or so, then ran revo stage 2 for over a year. Now swapped that for APR.

First time tonight I went out for a hard drive in the car in reasonable conditions. Dry roads so I could push on in the bends, trying out some heel and toe now that APR have allowed the brake and accelerator to work together in harmony. Before any application of brake would render the throttle useless. I need more practice with this feature though!


The car is fast, the power delivery is so sweet. Patience is a virtue, it will be worth the wait trust me. Not sure what else I can say without incriminating myself 

Just like to add that last time my friend was in the car with me he commented on how it felt quicker than usual. I never told him that I got a new map


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

Poverty said:


> ....trying out some heel and toe now that APR have allowed the brake and accelerator to work together in harmony. Before any application of brake would render the throttle useless. I need more practice with this feature though!


This is an interesting bit of information. If APR's tune will allow for both throttle and brake to be applied simultaneously, boost can be built up while still braking.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Yeah it will help around the track for sure!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We add Left Foot Braking to many different applications, and the TTRS will be one of them. 

Our B8 S4 customers just got it too.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so when can we finally enjoy this? in a week? two?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> so when can we finally enjoy this? in a week? two?


March


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## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> March


...will there be other components, i.e., exhaust, etc. rolled out as well?


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> March


So, here's the deal. I have my second track event scheduled for March 24, 25. I have to drive ~ 2.5 hours to get there. There is an APR dealer in Grapevine, somewaht nearby. So,...

If you guys would have the dealers able to perform the flashes via OBD II by Friday, March 23, I could flash the evening before the event and use this new power for greatly elevating my weekend experience.

Please, when you say March, say *early-March! *


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

AppleChilli said:


> ...will there be other components, i.e., exhaust, etc. rolled out as well?


Yes


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

LongviewTx said:


> So, here's the deal. I have my second track event scheduled for March 24, 25. I have to drive ~ 2.5 hours to get there. There is an APR dealer in Grapevine, somewaht nearby. So,...
> 
> If you guys would have the dealers able to perform the flashes via OBD II by Friday, March 23, I could flash the evening before the event and use this new power for greatly elevating my weekend experience.
> 
> Please, when you say March, say *early-March! *


Good luck on the "via OBD II" part. I have a feeling that you're going to have to crack the ECU open (voiding your warranty) for the first reflash on these cars.


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

Marty said:


> Good luck on the "via OBD II" part. I have a feeling that you're going to have to crack the ECU open (voiding your warranty) for the first reflash on these cars.


u r right I am sure. I just learned this evening that an other ecu flasher needs the ecu removed and sent in in order to accomplish the flash as 4 pins are required, plus maybe a ground too, not sure exactly but either way, the OBD II route is not going to accomodate the normal data transmission.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

So with the stock fueling, stock internals, stock intercooler, stock intake, stock clutch and a beta APR Stage III Turbocharger System (Turbo Manifold, Turbocharger, Turbo Cold Side Inlet, Turbo Hot Side Outlet, Oil/coolant lines) with APR RSC Turboback Exhaust System our TTRS is making more power and torque than any other in the world. 

Torque is absolutely insane to the wheels. 

More to come later.... :laugh:


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## LongviewTx (Dec 26, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> More to come later.... :laugh:


more salt into that there open wound, damn it.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> So with the stock fueling, stock internals, stock intercooler, stock intake, stock clutch and a beta APR Stage III Turbocharger System (Turbo Manifold, Turbocharger, Turbo Cold Side Inlet, Turbo Hot Side Outlet, Oil/coolant lines) with APR RSC Turboback Exhaust System our TTRS is making more power and torque than any other in the world.
> 
> Torque is absolutely insane to the wheels.
> 
> More to come later.... :laugh:


Awesome! The turbo downturn for stage 3 looks gorgeous.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> So with the stock fueling, stock internals, stock intercooler, stock intake, stock clutch and a beta APR Stage III Turbocharger System (Turbo Manifold, Turbocharger, Turbo Cold Side Inlet, Turbo Hot Side Outlet, Oil/coolant lines) with APR RSC Turboback Exhaust System our TTRS is making more power and torque than any other in the world.
> 
> Torque is absolutely insane to the wheels.
> 
> More to come later.... :laugh:


:banghead:

This is the equivalent of waterboarding...


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

517whp Stage III TTRS is coming soon.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

So we've given a little preview of our development progress thus far. We have a lot of power left on the table, and as more of our production hardware and software becomes ready, we'll keep bumping up the power and torque. 

On our TTRS beta car, we're running a beta APR stage 3 turbocharger system. Essentially at this stage we have the cast turbo inlet, turbocharger, inconel turbo manifold, turbo hotside down turn, turbo compressor outlet hose, beta coolant and oil lines, a beta downpipe which will be heavily modified for efficiency in the future, and no production heat shields. 

We used the stock intake, stock intercooler, stock internals, stock clutch, stock head, stock cams, stock fuel pump and stock injectors. We were able to crank out 517 whp and 500 wtq (ft-lbs) on this setup, and it's spooling very quickly already. To give an idea of spool, we're past 300 wtq by 3000 rpm's and 400 wtq by 3200 RPM's. Torque just keeps climbing and we've already pushed 550 wtq out of the setup but did not have time to gather all of the data before the conference. Essentially, with all of these stock restrictive and limiting components, the system is spooling quickly and making gobs of power already with more room to go once more parts are installed. 

The great Audi engines are back and we're loving every moment of it!


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

I see thats on at the front wheels, but anyway, its still a lot! :thumbup::beer:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jmh2002 said:


> I see thats on at the front wheels, but anyway, its still a lot! :thumbup::beer:


Yes, the dyno pods are not mechanically linked, so it doesn't play well on a haldex system in AWD mode.


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## mik34 (Feb 25, 2012)

*DAMN!!*



[email protected] said:


> We used the stock intake, stock intercooler, stock internals, stock clutch, stock head, stock cams, stock fuel pump and stock injectors. We were able to crank out 517 whp and 500 wtq (ft-lbs) on this setup, and it's spooling very quickly already. To give an idea of spool, we're past 300 wtq by 3000 rpm's and 400 wtq by 3200 RPM's. Torque just keeps climbing and we've already pushed 550 wtq out of the setup but did not have time to gather all of the data before the conference.


Must...buy...this...car... I think you just cost me some money. This is awesome.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


>


I like the classic "Audi Sport" decal.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> So we've given a little preview of our development progress thus far. We have a lot of power left on the table, and as more of our production hardware and software becomes ready, we'll keep bumping up the power and torque.
> 
> On our TTRS beta car, we're running a beta APR stage 3 turbocharger system. Essentially at this stage we have the cast turbo inlet, turbocharger, inconel turbo manifold, turbo hotside down turn, turbo compressor outlet hose, beta coolant and oil lines, a beta downpipe which will be heavily modified for efficiency in the future, and no production heat shields.
> 
> ...


Awesome, but on what fuel did you make these power numbers?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

This is 100 octane. Stock fueling is limited especially without the other upgraded bits to keep everything cool (or heat shields and intercooler). We'll continue tuning with pump fuels and race fuels over the next few months, especially once our other hardware components are finished.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

So without 100 octane (or water meth) you're pretty much limited by fueling just like the existing hybrid turbo setups?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

JohnLZ7W said:


> So without 100 octane (or water meth) you're pretty much limited by fueling just like the existing hybrid turbo setups?


No, not exactly. 

The Hybrid turbos are using the factory manifold with tiny runners in order to spool the turbo extremely quickly. What this creates is very excessive EGT's, and raising boost, or leaning AFR's only makes the situation worse. They also suffer from very low timing advance, and as such, EGT's are even higher. So, in order to prevent components from melting, you must use a lot of fuel. We've even taxed out the fueling system on stage 2+ cars in testing due to the need for fuel to cool EGT's. If no one believes me, ask the guys in the UK who destroyed their engines on the Autobahn. :laugh: 

Stage 3 uses a very large Manifold with a T3 flange and large A/R on the turbo. The turbine wheel is much larger and the system as a whole is much more efficient. Because of this, EGT's are much lower, and as such, we are able to run leaner air fuel ratios, without the need for excessive amounts of fuel to keep everything cool. 

So, with an APR Stage 3 turbocharger system, we are not limited in the same way as the hybrid turbo guys. None of that matters anyways because we're APR and we'll have fueling solutions exclusive to our customers. :laugh:


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

and stage 1 is when?? what are the power numbers for that


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> and stage 1 is when?? what are the power numbers for that


Very soon as in the dealers are taking how the first piece of the puzzle now. I'll release the graphs shortly.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

yesss 93 graphs plz tonight


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> No, not exactly.
> 
> The Hybrid turbos are using the factory manifold,



Sure, I understand the substantial hardware differences but it seems like everyone hits a wall at about 500hp on pump gas with standard fueling on these cars. Certainly the APR setup will have much more potential with custom hardware once additional fueling is added.

I am a big fan of running these cars more efficiently with less boost and lower EGTs. I was really happy to hear that the newest APR software in Europe is making lots of power but running less peak boost than other tuners.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We also have difficulty comparing numbers here in the US to some in the ROW since typically the EU and UK markets use dynos that report power at the crank. We typically estimate crank power here in the US, but the numbers I've mentioned were at the wheels or hubs as they are connect to dynapacks.

Getting figures in the UK at the crank should be no problem as APR UK will have a nice new MAHA dyno. Those spit out low WHP numbers and use a coast down test to report estimated BHP figures the market overseas is use to seeing. 



JohnLZ7W said:


> I was really happy to hear that the newest APR software in Europe is making lots of power but running less peak boost than other tuners.


It's good to see the market knows there's much more to tuning besides turning all the knobs to 11. :laugh:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> No, not exactly.
> 
> The Hybrid turbos are using the factory manifold, which tapers to a very tiny A/R in order to spool the turbo extremely quickly. What this creates is very excessive EGT's, and raising boost, or leaning AFR's only makes the situation worse. They also suffer from very low timing advance, and as such, EGT's are even higher. So, in order to prevent components from melting, you must use a lot of fuel. We've even taxed out the fueling system on stage 2+ cars in testing due to the need for fuel to cool EGT's. If no one believes me, ask the guys in the UK who destroyed their engines on the Autobahn. :laugh:
> 
> ...


The downside of the APR stage 3 solution is, of course, increased turbo lag. It's hard to quantify the change in dynamic "feel" of the car with this from a simple full throttle dyno.

I'm very interested to heat about the different stages, and of you can upgrade in stages at a discount (e.g. Stage 2 is discounted if you've already purchased a stage 1).


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> The downside of the APR stage 3 solution is, of course, increased turbo lag. It's hard to quantify the change in dynamic "feel" of the car with this from a simple full throttle dyno.


Turbo lag is even less than our 2.0 TSI stage 3 kits, which are not laggy at all. I'm sure you'll not be disappointed. 



> I'm very interested to heat about the different stages, and of you can upgrade in stages at a discount (e.g. Stage 2 is discounted if you've already purchased a stage 1).


I'm not sure I understand the questions fully, but to answer the last part, we don't charge for stage 2 or 2+ software. It's free if you're already an APR Stage 1 customer


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so i understand we need to take out ecu for initial flash? why cant we just ship you the ecu then like with the S4 to speed things up? and how can we find out when our local dealers will get the new hardware?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Turbo lag is even less than our 2.0 TSI stage 3 kits, which are not laggy at all. I'm sure you'll not be disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not sure I understand the questions fully, but to answer the last part, we don't charge for stage 2 or 2+ software. It's free if you're already an APR Stage 1 customer


Sounds good. I hope you guys release hardware to let folks upgrade programs on their own at home like Cobb.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> so i understand we need to take out ecu for initial flash? why cant we just ship you the ecu then like with the S4 to speed things up? and how can we find out when our local dealers will get the new hardware?


Since we are so close to offering software, we don't want to cut out our dealer network from any local sales.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Sounds good. I hope you guys release hardware to let folks upgrade programs on their own at home like Cobb.


 Do you mean flashing at home? This will not happen, sorry.


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## kozani (Dec 28, 2006)

Will we be able to change back to stock using the cruise control switch?

Is this a simple plug and play software upgrade or do you have to take something off of the car to program it?


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

So let me get this straight...for a "simple" flash...

1. The ECU has to be removed...is it opened and modified?
2. This has to be done by an APR dealer...my closest dealer is 2.5 hours away.
3. After all that we won't be able to change between programs?

Hmm, not the solution I was hoping for after such a lengthy development phase.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

kozani said:


> Will we be able to change back to stock using the cruise control switch?


I'll speak with engineering next week to get an update on program switching. 



> Is this a simple plug and play software upgrade or do you have to take something off of the car to program it?





DrDomm said:


> So let me get this straight...for a "simple" flash...
> 
> 1. The ECU has to be removed...is it opened and modified?
> 2. This has to be done by an APR dealer...my closest dealer is 2.5 hours away.
> ...


This depends on the ECU. Basically some have tuning protection and some don't. If they do, the ECU must be removed to be flashed as it's 1024 bit encryption. It's just a flash. There are no wires, soldering, chips or anything like that. This is how the market's changing and everything will be this way in the near future (most already is).


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Do you mean flashing at home? This will not happen, sorry.


I guess I was spoiled with my Subaru STi. I got used to Cobb posting continuous little updates / feature improvements, and I'd just download it from their website and go update it in the garage.

APR could require ECU removal for the first flash, but once the "hacked" software was put on the car, they could just develop a little USB to OBD port dongle to do incremental APR-approved updates.

Oh well, wishful thinking... but you guys should consider it, because customers would like it!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)




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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


>


Where's the stage 3 acceleration on 91ACN fuel video??


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Where's the stage 3 acceleration on 91ACN fuel video??


We can't buy any of that crap round these parts.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We can't buy any of that crap round these parts.


Lucky you guys! So how do you guys make tunes for California / Arizona / Nevada?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Lucky you guys! So how do you guys make tunes for California / Arizona / Nevada?


We can import the gas for final verification. It's usually not that different an only requires a tiny bit of fine tuning.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Since we are so close to offering software, we don't want to cut out our dealer network from any local sales.


so did you suspend s4 tuning over mail in? some dealers have posted another couple months before they get the new tools, wtf i dont want to wait, and what if there are no dealers in my city? why am i waiting?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> so did you suspend s4 tuning over mail in? some dealers have posted another couple months before they get the new tools, wtf i dont want to wait, and what if there are no dealers in my city? why am i waiting?


You are waiting because the production tools are not ready. Everything we do in house is manual, and time consuming at that. The tools will be ready soon and when they are, software will be released.


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## DaveTT (Mar 22, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> You are waiting because the production tools are not ready. Everything we do in house is manual, and time consuming at that. The tools will be ready soon and when they are, software will be released.


 Really looking forward to seeing the stage 1 thru 3 breakdown for 93 octane. My car should be in my garage and a few thousand miles on the clock by then


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## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> No, not exactly.
> 
> The Hybrid turbos are using the factory manifold with tiny runners in order to spool the turbo extremely quickly. What this creates is very excessive EGT's, and raising boost, or leaning AFR's only makes the situation worse. They also suffer from very low timing advance, and as such, EGT's are even higher. So, in order to prevent components from melting, you must use a lot of fuel. We've even taxed out the fueling system on stage 2+ cars in testing due to the need for fuel to cool EGT's. If no one believes me, ask the guys in the UK who destroyed their engines on the Autobahn. :laugh:
> 
> ...


Hi Arin, 

Best solution for stock turbo is to run maximum boost at between 1.4-1.45 bar and cap fuelling at 0.82 lambda. Any more boost requires an AFR dump which is counter productive, fuelling limits are reached and is pretty much where revo are going wrong in the UK. You may recognise my username from over in the UK, I run nothing but a full sysytem decat (OEM exhaust) and a S2 tune from MRC who are big Audi S/RS tuners over here in the UK.

The car is absolutely flying with 425hp (crank) 365hp (wheels)

A video of a 0-174mph run below...0-60mph in 3.29, 0-100mph in 7.38






I am also current 1/4m record holder with a time of [email protected] Stock tyres (Michelin PS2) stock intake, stock intercooler, stock exhaust (full decat) running normal pump gas






When I compare my video against your own, my car is accelerating quicker, just compare 50-150 for example and my car with 365whp is beating your car with 517whp??

Okay, I have the DSG car which is saving me a lot of time but still, it doesn't look like 517whp to me. In the UK that would equate to over 600bhp at crank.

I do realise it is still early days and this is half finished with a lot more to come but the video left me feeling a little underwhelmed, it seems to be accelerating the same as any other (manual) TTRS with 430hp crank. (Perhaps its performace just now is all top end, 150mph+, I dont know)

Anyway, not a dig, I'm sure once done with all the hardware in place, it will be a stupidly quick car so a big thumbs up on what you are doing, I just hope we have a mid 10sec car at the end of it (If so, i'll be fitting the turbo to my DSG RS:thumbup


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Have you put the interior back in your car yet mate lol.

You need to get your car to a proper event with other TTRS to see of your car is special, or at the very least attend a proper drag strip such as Santa pod and not the make shift crail with the iffy data recording system.

30-130 and inters was your chance but you keep backing out, was looking forward to running mine and ash's s-tronic against yours.

Oh well theres another mrc TTRS s-tronic attending that day, let's see if he can do your figures


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## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

Poverty said:


> Have you put the interior back in your car yet mate lol.
> 
> You need to get your car to a proper event with other TTRS to see of your car is special, or at the very least attend a proper drag strip such as Santa pod and not the make shift crail with the iffy data recording system.
> 
> ...


Haha, are you having a lagh Pov? Crail raceway is 1 of 4 MSA approved dragstrips in the UK, there are no others. The last time I seen your car on a dragstrip, it recorded a piss poor 12.8 at an unnaproved drag racing event (namely GTI) As to dodgy timing equipment :laugh: It matches within a couple of hundredths of a second my vbox times (Seriously its getting a little desperate now when you mention iffy equipment and removal of a front seat:laugh

My vbox is wrong? My timeslips are wrong, my videos are wrong? Pov, unlike you, I back everything up, I also walk the walk, not just talk the talk. Look at the evidence you lunatic, you like arguing black is white though:screwy: No one else posts as much data and as much evidence as I do.

You know you're car is piss poor and hence why you now no longer visit the drag strips. Your 30-130 time last year was also rubbish. Shall I dig the threads out where you publically slated APR, called them all wankers and said that revo were the best in the business What map are you running now Pov? Yep, APR, talk of Pot, Kettle and black there mate

I live 500m away fron Santa pod and Marham, thats a 1000m trip to attend an event. Erm, no. Tell you what, you make the 1000m journey upto Crail?

As to weight savings, again, are you having a laugh? My car is completely stock, no lightweight seats, exhausts, wheels, or any body parts. I removed passenger seat, 30kg.

My car is 1500kg with 1/3 fuel, add myself to that 76kg, minus 30kg front seat and 5kg toolkit gives me a driving weight of 1540kg

Your car, well 1475kg with 1/3 fuel, add yourself to that 60kg, minus 25kg exhaust weight, minus 40kg seat weight, minus 10kg wheel weight, minus 10kg brake weight gives you a weight of around 1450kg.

So my car with 425bhp, weighing in at 1540kg posts an 11.37 1/4m and your car with 440bhp, weighing in at 1450kg posts a 12.88 1/4m

Video here...




You're hilarious mate, when Jonny held the record with an 11.61 run from an unnaproved source, you never mentioned it, now when I run an 11.37 at an approved source, your toys come out the pram.

As to Santapod, I will run there in the near future. Crail's failings are its launch surface, Pods advantages are its launch surface. 1/10 saved on 60ft yields 2/10 at the finish line. I am managing 1.74 60fts from Crails poor surface, I wonder what it will do with Pods sticky surface Everybody I have spoken to who have run at both, run quicker times at Santapod due to the stickier launchpad, simple as that.

Seeing as all you guys live near santapod, why are you not all there testing your cars? Why havent you and Ash been there yet? Why isnt TTS car and Robs car there testing out the hybrids? Why didnt Jonny run there after GTI?

There is so much nonsense that comes out of your mouth mate. 

11.37 @ 122.3 is there to be beaten, go on, do it (I doubt you would even break 12:laugh

As to the MRC S-Tronic running at 30-130, what has that got to do with me? Not my car, no 2 cars are the same

Grow up mate and come back when you can give me evidence of a quicker car, until then STFU :wave:

I'll be at Santapod in the next couple of months, meet me and lets put this to bed. I'll run side by side to you and get someone to video it. I reckon there will be about 15-20 car lengths in it by the finish line. Come on mate, I'll put my money where my mouth is, meet me and put this drivel to bed:thumbup:


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

I can't be bothered to read all that crap, no need to spam the APR thread with your look at how great I am nonsense.

1. I've done a 12.6 stock with a passenger.
2. That GTI inters run at 12.8 I missed a gear.
3. My APR TTRS has recorded better vbox times than when on Revo.
4. I don't bother with drag strips anymore because Ive snapped a propshaft before and quite frankly straight line 1/4 mile runs are boring to me. All that time spent linin up for the fun to finish in 11-12 secs, just to abuse the car? I'll pass and stick to having fun around corners, bends and crests.


I just didn't see the point of you coming on here spouting your my car is so great crap. What has it got to do with the APR thread? Do you want them to give you a job or something?


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## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

Poverty said:


> I can't be bothered to read all that crap, no need to spam the APR thread with your look at how great I am nonsense.
> 
> 1. I've done a 12.6 stock with a passenger.
> 2. That GTI inters run at 12.8 I missed a gear.
> ...


Nope, im telling them what they need to beat. With a BT kit they should smash through 11.37 time no problems. The reason for me coming over here was to ask about why the 517whp acceleration video is slower than my 365whp video? Perhaps its American dynos? Perhaps 517whp actually means 517bhp as that would make much more sense? DSG is always going to be quicker than manual and in my opinion its worth 75-100hp over manual. (Certainly sub 150mph anyway) Just compare my car to TTS and Robs 500hp hybrids for that.

As to 11-12secs of fun on a 1/4m, 30-130 is exactly the same but actually more boring as there is no launch involved. You're attending that 1 no probs ;-)

APR are already tuning the stock turbo the best way, less boost, less temps, more power, you know the score already Pov. I had been harping on about it for the best part of a year before you took any notice. 

APR are no doubts doing a great job with this new kit and I too am looking forward to the end product. If they can offer me a 500bhp+ solution bolt on, bolt off, I too will make that next step for more.

You stirred the pot with your post, not the other way around mate. I was only showing the guys over this side of the pond what the current best is. 

Back on topic and thread back to APR:thumbup:


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

That's why you should have come to the 30-130. It's a level playing field. Everyone who you have mentioned for not hitting the drag strip at the pod will be there. Me, ash, Chris, robj, jonny david and some other TTRS drivers. It's going to be pretty much a definitive test to see what works and what doesn't. The vmax aspect of the 30-130 is what makes it fun for me, deffo one of my fav events of the year, and will be good to see how my car has progressed a year on, albeit you can't really compare results from year to year.

I know that my APR will be a strong stock manual car and so will be Chris with his additional bolt ons.

Will be interesting to see how everyone stacks up to one another!


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## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

Poverty said:


> That's why you should have come to the 30-130. It's a level playing field. Everyone who you have mentioned for not hitting the drag strip at the pod will be there. Me, ash, Chris, robj, jonny david and some other TTRS drivers. It's going to be pretty much a definitive test to see what works and what doesn't. The vmax aspect of the 30-130 is what makes it fun for me, deffo one of my fav events of the year, and will be good to see how my car has progressed a year on, albeit you can't really compare results from year to year.
> 
> I know that my APR will be a strong stock manual car and so will be Chris with his additional bolt ons.
> 
> Will be interesting to see how everyone stacks up to one another!


I agree with you Pov, sure, in an ideal world everyone on the same day running the same surface with the same weather conditions is the best but unfortunately I do live in another country to you guys, 1000m road trip is mega for an afternoon of fun. I was prepared to do it, but March is a messy month for me with far too much going on.

I seen your 100-200 times and sure, they look great, you should run a good 30-130 event this year, no doubts about it. If Jonny is up and running he is expected to run single digits, that's not what I'll be looking out for, my eyes are on your car and Robs car to see how much difference that hybrid makes. Davids car will be interesting too, I guess all you guys will be trying to outdo each other with race fuels or octane boosters but for sure it will be an interesting day. My eyes are on Rob as thats the path I very nearly took myself before deciding to give up on the manual and head over to the DSG car. Vmax, well if I were there, I would probably concede that 1 to you guys straight away, generally the cars with the most of power wins that battle, or in this case, the guy that has the biggest bollocks and brakes latest. You guys are all running BBK so I wouldnt stand a chance on the vmax aspect, you would outpower and outbrake.

Good luck to you all, I shall be watching the live times online


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

David does love a bit of octane booster, but that didn't stop him from me beating him last time we duelled.

Last year I did a 14 sec run and 170mph, pretty much on par with a stock GTR that day, like you say with the new bits, improved map etc I'm hoping for a higher vmax and a 13 sec run conditions permitting. Results very much depend on wind direction on the day.


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## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

Poverty said:


> David does love a bit of octane booster, but that didn't stop him from me beating him last time we duelled.
> 
> Last year I did a 14 sec run and 170mph, pretty much on par with a stock GTR that day, like you say with the new bits, improved map etc I'm hoping for a higher vmax and a 13 sec run conditions permitting. Results very much depend on wind direction on the day.


I hope you run a low to mid 13 and take a second off your revo times. You'll not manage on road bests and I think David will be in for a shock with that 1. Queuing around will heat you guys up, cross winds and slight upwards gradient will put a second onto on road bests I think. Hopefully there are some stock GTR's there, even some S1 480 GTR's the DSG/hybrid cars should cope with.

David says you all run octane boosters? Not sure if it will do anyone non revo any favours though as no way of advancing the timing. That's my next move i think, a tank of race juice and a chat with the guys at MRC to see if there's a way of running twin maps.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Both times I ran against him he had octane booster and I didn't. Shame I can't post the vids tbh


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

...And I was bummed because I kept have issues logging in to the UK TT forum? The pissing match has come to the US! Love it!


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

DrDomm said:


> ...And I was bummed because I kept have issues logging in to the UK TT forum? The pissing match has come to the US! Love it!


LOL, I can't log on anymore either. Good to see you boy's still jousting! This is a much better version than the old "ten steps, turn and fire" duels of the past!:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

MitchyRS said:


> When I compare my video against your own, my car is accelerating quicker, just compare 50-150 for example and my car with 365whp is beating your car with 517whp??


It's beta, has a stock intercooler, and was pretty beat up before I got in the car to shoot a video. I'm not worried if others feel they've accelerated just as fast or faster because I have no data to say if the car was still producing 500+ WHP by the time I got in it, and I honestly don't care, nor am I worried, because it's beta and only had 1 days worth of calibration time. 

When it's finished, has an intercooler, has an intake, has heatshields around all the important bits, and even has more fueling, it will be insane considering it already felt fast. I'll post updates along the way.

Now that said, it seems sharing information has just cause me extra work. It's not even pleasurable work.... it's just explanation after explanation after explanation for all the people complaining. _(Please, if you've asked questions, and were not complaining, I'm not lumping you into this category)_. People are upset about the video. People are upset about the dyno type. People are arguing over this and that. Sheashe! Do I need to stop sharing updates so I can get my other work done? It's seriously zapping all the fun out of this project!


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> So we've given a little preview of our development progress thus far. We have a lot of power left on the table, and as more of our production hardware and software becomes ready, we'll keep bumping up the power and torque.
> 
> On our TTRS beta car, we're running a beta APR stage 3 turbocharger system. Essentially at this stage we have the cast turbo inlet, turbocharger, inconel turbo manifold, turbo hotside down turn, turbo compressor outlet hose, beta coolant and oil lines, a beta downpipe which will be heavily modified for efficiency in the future, and no production heat shields.
> 
> ...


Sounds fabulous! 

One question, how is that clutch coping with that huge torque (that is 700+ Nm!). I have a manual TTRS which showed 606Nm on the dyno last summer (28C ambient) and in negative Celcius temperatures in winter I have clutch slip in 6th gear accelerating half-vigorously from 60mph...


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Start to look like a very expensive stage 3 kit.
Besides that you need new internals to let it last for at leased 50.000, a completely new clutch assembly and most importend full new front brakes.
Looks like a 30.000,- + investment to me, not worth it with all your factory quarantee's gone.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Those are pretty expensive brakes and clutch to get you up to $30k


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

Gold fuzZy dice aren't cheap.


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## dogdrive (Oct 19, 2005)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Those are pretty expensive brakes and clutch to get you up to $30k


Better be ceramic brakes


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

R5T said:


> Start to look like a very expensive stage 3 kit.
> Besides that you need new internals to let it last for at leased 50.000, a completely new clutch assembly and most importend full new front brakes.
> Looks like a 30.000,- + investment to me, not worth it with all your factory quarantee's gone.


So negative hans! To get the engine to a reliable 650hp won't cost that much at all, just look at the 2.0tfsi running big turbo kits!


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

Poverty said:


> So negative hans! To get the engine to a reliable 650hp won't cost that much at all, just look at the 2.0tfsi running big turbo kits!


Getting the engine to 650hp maybe wont cost much at all (10 grand or so), getting the OTHER internals and OTHER parts of transmission to run RELIABLY for a respectable number of kilometers - that is totally another issue. 

Of course, if your car cycle buy-tune-sell is short then no worries. If you keep the car for a number of years and in tuned form, then you might start to worry. 

650hp that is twice the original power, maybe the engine block will hold fine but the rest of the components will be under much higher stress. 

Brakes and clutch is the minimum you'd have to change to utilize this extra power, R5T is right. 30K is due to internal changes. Personally I question the longevity of gearbox and differential with that kind of power.

Stage III is no walk in the park, it is amazing feat, but it entails high risks of being stuck with much larger bill.


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

Poverty said:


> So negative hans! To get the engine to a reliable 650hp won't cost that much at all, just look at the 2.0tfsi running big turbo kits!


Also, there is a bias, you don't usually hear the really bad stories, like destroyed gearboxes/engines/whatever else, people do not like to share this disasters, and definitely not the tuning houses who've done the conversions! 

What you usually hear are happy customers and people with some sort of vested interest saying everything is fabulous and great. That is not a representative universe.

I hope Arin does not take this personally in some sense, I believe it is really great that APR does these kits, and they should do these kits, they have incredible amount of know-how involved in this, the products are world-known for that. But in the end they do not run the risks (they state it explicitly) of your car blowing up or eating its gearbox for lunch.


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

While I think it is a blast to read about all the drag strip rivalries and clutch endurance debates, this thread is about the APR TT RS software and hardware. Yep. I just checked the thread title again, and it still says the same. 

There is much validity to discuss these other (related) issues - may I suggest a new thread gets started so that this one doesn't end up going off the cliff with personal opinions and rivalries?!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

NoPasaran said:


> Sounds fabulous!
> 
> One question, how is that clutch coping with that huge torque (that is 700+ Nm!). I have a manual TTRS which showed 606Nm on the dyno last summer (28C ambient) and in negative Celcius temperatures in winter I have clutch slip in 6th gear accelerating half-vigorously from 60mph...


After the acceleration tests the other day it started to slip. 



R5T said:


> Start to look like a very expensive stage 3 kit.
> Besides that you need new internals to let it last for at leased 50.000, a completely new clutch assembly and most importend full new front brakes.
> Looks like a 30.000,- + investment to me, not worth it with all your factory quarantee's gone.


I'd say you're jumping the estimation gun a little but let's discuss what I would change if I owned a TTRS. 



Stage 3 Turbocharger System
Intake (Stage 3 is compatible with anything that fits the stock turbo).
Intercooler (Stage 3 is compatible with anything that fits the stock turbo).
Exhaust (Stage 3 is compatible with anything that fits the stock exhaust after the downpipe [we include a downpipe])
Clutch if I was a 6MT
Connecting rods for reliability especially on race fuel


So, essentially you're looking at a stage 3 kit with the normal bolt ons, obviously a clutch, and then looking at internals for reliability. 

Now I know you want a lot of power. We've discussed that before. Are you telling me you want a lot of power but you don't want to even think about changing the clutch? I'm a bit confused!


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> I'd say you're jumping the estimation gun a little but let's discuss what I would change if I owned a TTRS.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I would not go stage 3 on stock internals, or with a Manual gearbox. 
This kit would work much better on a DSG S-Tronic car. ( but can a DSG handle 700+ Nm of torque)
And everything under 600 hp is not worth moving to Stage 3 IMHO.


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## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

Poverty said:


> Have you put the interior back in your car yet mate lol.
> 
> You need to get your car to a proper event with other TTRS to see of your car is special, or at the very least attend a proper drag strip such as Santa pod and not the make shift crail with the iffy data recording system.
> 
> ...


For those Euro TTRS owners who are going for max power acceleration gains, are you still using the stock shifter or have you gone to an aftermarket shorter throw shifter for faster shifts?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

R5T said:


> I would not go stage 3 on stock internals, or with a Manual gearbox.
> This kit would work much better on a DSG S-Tronic car. ( but can a DSG handle 700+ Nm of torque)
> And everything under 600 hp is not worth moving to Stage 3 IMHO.


I would think the opposite... that is, I would be more inclined to put a "stage 3" on a manual gearbox (where it's easy to replace a clutch if you break something) over a DSG. Why do you think these kits would work better on DSGs? A DSG just seems like another variable where you could break something.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Stage 3 Turbocharger System
> Intake (Stage 3 is compatible with anything that fits the stock turbo).
> Intercooler (Stage 3 is compatible with anything that fits the stock turbo).
> Exhaust (Stage 3 is compatible with anything that fits the stock exhaust after the downpipe [we include a downpipe])
> ...


I think it's awesome that you guys have designed a kit that integrates as closely with stock components as possible (including intake pipe and exhaust locations). :thumbup:


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## bsmack (Oct 16, 2008)

Forget Stage 3 and even Stage 2 for now! Just give us Stage 1 reflash! Just got my yearly bonus and am deciding whether to invest/save it or spend it on something I don't need. Urge to be fiscally responsible...RISING


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

It's moving along as fast as possible. I know, delays delays, this wasn't the plan but it was necessary and part of a bigger picture move.


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> After the acceleration tests the other day it started to slip.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am just curious, as I have never had this kind of work done, but speaking generally, how much do the connecting rods and their isntallation cost?


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

labor is probably more than rods as you have to tear down most of the motor, but some say stock motor is good for 700hp...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

That's not a TTRS engine. It's a 2.5L Golf engine. Look at the valve cover and PCV setup at 37 seconds into the video. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63k8Hh1Etrw&feature=related

And here's a VW 2.5 naturally aspirated engine w/o the cover. 

http://media.photobucket.com/image/recent/bwperformance/DSC00433.jpg


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

tdi-bart said:


> labor is probably more than rods as you have to tear down most of the motor, but some say stock motor is good for 700hp...


 That is not a stock motor.
It has H-beam forged connecting rods and a whole heep of internal parts. Also that is a 2.5 Rabbit motor that has been turbo charged , not a true TTRS unit.


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## neonova6 (Aug 26, 2011)

Holy hell, that was painful to watch. Reminds me of my youth, when I used to connect duel 9v's to a standard 3v motor, and run the thing until the bearings ceased, the wiring started to melt and finally met it's inevitable demise. Leaving this world with puff of smoke; the tiny spirt of it's existence sacrificed to my unyielding curiosity of electronics. I digress. 

I can't imagine they were actually anticipating putting that monstrously modified engine into a chassis without upgrading, basically everything else, and expect it preform 

Edit: I was wrong, they put it into a dune buggy kit. They're madder than I though. 



tdi-bart said:


> labor is probably more than rods as you have to tear down most of the motor, but some say stock motor is good for 700hp...


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

well then if thats a rabbit motor then ttrs can do even better :laugh:


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> well then if thats a rabbit motor then ttrs can do even better :laugh:


I thought the TTRS engine based on the engine block from American VW Rabbit.


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

I've been thinking about Stage III.

Since it requires special APR downpipe, which is decat, the car will probably not pass emissions test.
Now, I do not know how it is in US, but where I am at (Switzerland) the car has to go through governmental check (MOT, I guess) when it is 5 years old and then every two years. If it does not pass the check then you cannot drive it. That means then that in order to pass the check with SIII kit one would need to remove the whole kit (turbo, downpipe) and install the OEM parts and after the test the vice versa. That will not be cheap. :sly:


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## DrDomm (Feb 16, 2003)

There's some info on the new APR flashing stuff in the "TT-RS Order Guide" thread.


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## Axel1 (Apr 3, 2005)

DrDomm said:


> There's some info on the new APR flashing stuff in the "TT-RS Order Guide" thread.


moved here...

per http://www.rpiequipped.com/ site February 29, 2012 

"We just got back from our trip to Opelika, Alabama for the 2012 APR Distributor Conference. To start things off, APR announced the Stage 3 kit for Audi TTRS. Power numbers were at a modest 517whp when it was shown to us. However, that was only with a day of tuning on factory fueling. APR Expects this kit to come to market at the 600WHP mark."










Another big thing to be announced was the release of the highly anticipated UPD flashing station. Now, APR dealers will be able to flash ALL Siemens and Bosch ECU’s in house. Happy now, B8 S4 and TTRS Owners?


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## Axel1 (Apr 3, 2005)




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## Axel1 (Apr 3, 2005)




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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

so do dealers already have the new hardware?? and if thats the case where are the stage 1 graphs


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Ive dynoed my car.

Results are good, the car has never had this much power before 

Id better update my signature! :laugh:


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## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

Poverty said:


> Ive dynoed my car.
> 
> Results are good, the car has never had this much power before
> 
> Id better update my signature! :laugh:


What a tease...Spit it out already!?


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

haha,

Last time I was on this same dyno I made 400hp and 380lbft on revo stage 2

Big improvement now :heart:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

NoPasaran said:


> I've been thinking about Stage III.
> 
> Since it requires special APR downpipe, which is decat, the car will probably not pass emissions test.


There's physically no room for a catalytic converter in the primary stock location. 

There IS room for dual catalytic converter in the same location as the secondary cats. We will be exploring options to make emissions friendly solutions, especially for countries like Switzerland where our importer will seek DTC.


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## mik34 (Feb 25, 2012)

Poverty said:


> haha,
> 
> Last time I was on this same dyno I made 400hp and 380lbft on revo stage 2
> 
> Big improvement now :heart:


Tease.:what:


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Ok, you guys have suffered enough.

On the development file its made......

430hp 450lbft!


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

Poverty said:


> 430hp 450lbft!


 :thumbup:

What type of Dyno is this on? All 4 wheels? Crank or Wheel HP? Street Fuel, etc?


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

jmh2002 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> What type of Dyno is this on? All 4 wheels? Crank or Wheel HP? Street Fuel, etc?


All 4 wheels, crank HP, street fuel.

APR stage 2
Forge intercooler
Scorpion/forge Titanium turbo back exhaust


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

Poverty said:


> Ok, you guys have suffered enough.
> 
> On the development file its made......
> 
> 430hp 450lbft!


ok 93/98 fuel? mr arin how about some graphs finally


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Poverty said:


> Ok, you guys have suffered enough.
> 
> On the development file its made......
> 
> 430hp 450lbft!


Must be nice! : )


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> There's physically no room for a catalytic converter in the primary stock location.
> 
> There IS room for dual catalytic converter in the same location as the secondary cats. We will be exploring options to make emissions friendly solutions, especially for countries like Switzerland where our importer will seek DTC.


Thanks, Arin!
That is good news, not only for Switzerland, but for UK, Germany, and US as well, as I believe the emissions limits in US are just as hard as in Europe (maybe I am wrong).


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

A TT RS on my side of the pont and then Stage 3 with all the other necessary adjustment's means i would spend Nissan GT-R money. :screwy:


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## jamiekip (Nov 5, 2008)

Poverty said:


> Ok, you guys have suffered enough.
> 
> On the development file its made......
> 
> 430hp 450lbft!


Can you share WHP mate?


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

R5T said:


> A TT RS on my side of the pont and then Stage 3 with all the other necessary adjustment's means i would spend Nissan GT-R money. :screwy:


Looks like you bought the wrong car then.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Must be nice! : )


Its very nice


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

jamiekip said:


> Can you share WHP mate?


I dont think I have those figures, I;ll have to check the graph!


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

how about you just post the graph


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Poverty said:


> Its very nice


Oem air box too? Nice!


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Looks like you bought the wrong car then.


It is not the wrong car, John, it is just that SIII is street illegal in most of Europe, I can't see how it can be street legal in US as the car will most likely not pass emissions with decat DP and original 400 CPI cats. Unfortunately. 

I do not know how they do it in US, but I've heard in UK they will also do visual inspection of underneath at MOT, so if it does not look stock (which means that it will not pass emissions with that decat APR downpipe) then the car is illegal to drive.

The GTI I had before was bought by a guy here in Switzerland and now he did not pass MFK (Swiss MOT) because I had aftermarket exhaust with decat DP, motorsport cat and small silencer replacement pipes, and that car did pass emissions when I had it. I assume therefore visual inspection is done here as well.


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

tdi-bart said:


> how about you just post the graph


Ahahaha, British guys NEVER post graphs, trust me on this!  They only talk about how incredibly fast everything is. 

I have Sportec tune Stage 2, 419PS (=413bhp) and 607Nm (=447lbft) on 9402km old engine at ambient temperature of 28C. This is on the crank.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

NoPasaran said:


> Ahahaha, British guys NEVER post graphs, trust me on this!  They only talk about how incredibly fast everything is.
> 
> I have Sportec tune Stage 2, 419PS (=413bhp) and 607Nm (=447lbft) on 9402km old engine at ambient temperature of 28C. This is on the crank.


Have you seen the vbox times for the Sportec maps? Auto motor und sport tested it, I'd suggest a APR map if you want to unlock your cars true potential


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

Poverty said:


> Have you seen the vbox times for the Sportec maps? Auto motor und sport tested it, I'd suggest a APR map if you want to unlock your cars true potential


I just want to see what the plots look like, where the peaks are, how the numbers tail off etc. I just want to compare how different companies achieve their numbers, but I want to see it on customer cars not the smoothed and styled plots on the webpages of the tuners.

Who tested, how, at which temperatures etc makes a lot of difference, and you know that and that was 2 years ago anyway and those cars have the cats on including preCAT, do you? And again here is interesting to compare the plots and how the curves develop, to understand why performance differs.

Why it is such a BIG SECRET to share the plot I do not understand.


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

Yep, post it up, area under the curve says a lot...


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Its a development map, wait for the final version.

Over 415 hp from 5000rpm all the way to 7000rpm. Peak is at 6000rpm

peak torque from 3750rpm to 4750rpm


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

Poverty said:


> Its a development map, wait for the final version.
> 
> Over 415 hp from 5000rpm all the way to 7000rpm. Peak is at 6000rpm
> 
> peak torque from 3750rpm to 4750rpm


That free-flowing exhaust is surely helping. I still have the main 400 CPI cats on. I have peak power at 5980rpm and then it starts to decrease slowly. Torque is max at 2770, and I like it when torque is high low down, between 3400 and 5100 I have stable 550-570nm then it starts to decrease linearly, at 6400 I have 460nm.


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

Post up some plots guys. Development or not, its all good to see the progress.

Old skool here, VR6-T, time for you guys to catch up...


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## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

Arin, 

Do you have costings for any of this kit? Will it be an off the shelf item that can be bought and then tuned by any tuner or is it strictly APR?

What stage is the kit at now and what are we waiting on before it's complete? Can I buy the turbo off of you now and mate it to my existing hardware? what price range are we looking at for the turbo? $2-3k or more? Im across in the US in June, might bring back 1 of these in my suitcase


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

OBviously you did not read about bespoke intake manifold and bespoke downpipe....

Why don't you buy a turbine yourself and just mate it? APR will probably use one of Garrett turbines...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The turbocharger system will be sold as an entire kit including everything down to software, coolant and oil. I don't have an ETA yet.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> The turbocharger system will be sold as an entire kit including everything down to software, coolant and oil. I don't have an ETA yet.


With other word's very expensive.


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## NoPasaran (Feb 29, 2012)

R5T said:


> With other word's very expensive.


Probably - yes, but noone forces you to buy it.


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## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> The turbocharger system will be sold as an entire kit including everything down to software, coolant and oil. I don't have an ETA yet.


Not the answer I was hoping for but I do understand you guys need to recoup your cost of this R&D and keep it as an APR exclusive but its the old argument of low volume high value sales (Full APR kit) vs high volume low value (off the shelf, individual units, open to masses)

I dont want the full kit, I only want a turbo unit to bolt into place so that my standard intake and my standard downpipe mate upto it. Isn't this the stage your car is at now? Why cant you offer this?

Not everyone wants 600whp+ and the added stress on reliability. 450-500whp would do me just fine.

Keep up the good work though:thumbup:


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Mate, you can't just take the turbo and manifold and expect it to mate on to the rest of your OE system, you need to other hardware bits that APR are developing which will utilise the stock exhaust and intake anyway, and you will be needing the APR fuelling upgrade also as a BT kit will be pretty much limp wristed without it.

There is no cheap way of going BT, especially not of you want it to last, which this kit will.

Also on the reliability side of things that people keep talking about, I've got friends who are pushing 450-750hp from 1.8t's and 2.0t daily with no issue. Those cars get a kicking nearly every weekend, and they are fine. We will be using better hardware than my mates, plus we have more capacity and a extra cylinder. Reliability isn't a concern for me at all.

Just need someone to make a uprated clutch now...


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Hey guys, guess what we just released! 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...nts-North-American-TT-RS-2.5-TFSI-ECU-Upgrade!

North American TT RS software has finally landed!!!


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## AppleChilli (Jan 10, 2012)

^^^Great news; any word on when the exhaust will be available?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

AppleChilli said:


> ^^^Great news; any word on when the exhaust will be available?


It's looking like it will be available right around the same time the dealer tools come out.


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## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

I would get it if was like any other APR tune for 599 $. what makes TTRS so special that have to be 899$


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

michalborz said:


> I would get it if was like any other APR tune for 599 $. what makes TTRS so special that have to be 899$


A significant investment on our end into creating new ECU flashing tools and processess to access and crack into the ECU.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Man... this thing is pretty big. It took quite a bit of engineering to make it fit into such as small spot!


Thank you for sharing these! Love the prototype and CAD shots. Any updates on this setup?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

michalborz said:


> I would get it if was like any other APR tune for 599 $. what makes TTRS so special that have to be 899$



What makes the TT-RS so special, they charge 60K+?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Thank you for sharing these! Love the prototype and CAD shots. Any updates on this setup?


We have it on the car running already. The motors coming out for more modeling.... I'll grap some pix if I can.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

It's look like that if we are lucky we can order a kit for Christmas.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

R5T said:


> It's look like that if we are lucky we can order a kit for Christmas.


I thought you were going to trade your RS for a GTR anyway.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

JohnLZ7W said:


> I thought you were going to trade your RS for a GTR anyway.


Yep, being sarcastic .


----------



## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

joneze93tsi said:


> What makes the TT-RS so special, they charge 60K+?


Well TT-S with Prestige package and nav Is not far off 60K


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

joneze93tsi said:


> What makes the TT-RS so special, they charge 60K+?


The 2.5TFSI 5 cylinder engine.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Here are more development prototype pieces which are being sent out to another one of our development vehicles. We'll have test vehicles on several different continents all at once to ensure this kit and software is ready for left/right hand drive vehicles, high/low altitude, hot/cold weather, humid/dry weather, and the abuse of a few of the more crazy drivers out there. : ) 

APR T3 Investment Cast Inconel Exhaust Manifold. 

The runner lengths were adjusted properly so each incoming pulse arrives at the turbocharger collector without colliding into each other. This promotes turbocharger spool just like people see with weaker and louder tubular manifolds. 




























APR Cast Turbo Inlet Pipe. This cast piece will bolt up to the OEM intake location allowing any intake on the market to connect at the same location. It also reuses all the OEM connection points for PCV evap and vacuum. The piece bolted to the turbo and uses a gasket for a clean and easy leak free install. 




























APR Investment Cast Turbo Downturn with divorced wastegate routing, internal exhaust gas scavenging promoters and v-band downpipe connection flange. 




























Garrett GTX Ball Bearing T3 Turbocharger with integrated divorced wastegate housing, billet compressor wheel and anti surge compressor housing. We are in the process of testing small to large GTX T3 frame turbochargers. This particular unit is a GTX3071 and we have GTX3076 and GTX35 turbos as well. 





































APR Prototype Turbocharger System. Shown here are ONLY a few of the cast parts. Our turbocharger systems include all software, fueling, gaskets, oil/coolant lines, heat shields, nuts, bolts, oil and coolant you need to install the kit and go. 










We'll give more updates as we have them!


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

WOW!!! Im HGP Turbo on my VR6 so I can appreciate the investment that is going into all these proprietary APR parts (and I note some similarities in concept  ) 

Well done :thumbup: 

This will be not for the budget conscious, but for the quality conscious what an option to have available :beer:


----------



## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

Can I be the lucky one to test this on my RS  this looks preatty!!!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> We'll give more updates as we have them!


 Amazing work! Kudos to you guys for investing in the engineering of these high-quality parts. 

What are the plans for fueling? New injectors needed? New pump needed?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> What are the plans for fueling? New injectors needed? New pump needed?


 Injectors and pump. Already in development. :laugh:


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Injectors and pump. Already in development. :laugh:


 Sweet. How about the intercooler? Please tell me that stock is just fine for stage 3.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Sweet. How about the intercooler? Please tell me that stock is just fine for stage 3.


 We're working on one.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Here are more development prototype pieces which are being sent out to another one of our development vehicles. We'll have test vehicles on several different continents all at once to ensure this kit and software is ready for left/right hand drive vehicles, high/low altitude, hot/cold weather, humid/dry weather, and the abuse of a few of the more crazy drivers out there. : )
> 
> APR T3 Investment Cast Inconel Exhaust Manifold.
> 
> ...


 The parts really look like state of the art.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Thank you! I'm sure our designers are happy to see comments like these.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Thank you! I'm sure our designers are happy to see comments like these.


 btw, what power rage will those 3 turbo's have. 
Or will it more in the line of different power and torque @ different rpm's. ??? 
So less power more torque ratio, even torque and power ratio and high power less torque ratio.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> btw, what power rage will those 3 turbo's have.
> Or will it more in the line of different power and torque @ different rpm's. ???
> So less power more torque ratio, even torque and power ratio and high power less torque ratio.


 Well, I'm really not sure quite yet because we haven't tried everything. 

Here's things to consider: 

1. We want it to spool quickly. 
2. We want good top end power. 
3. We want an excellent driving experience. 
4. We want it to be safe (fuel/knock/EGT). 

A smaller turbo will spool quickly but may be out of steam towards redline. 

A bigger turbo will spool slower but will have more steam towards redline. 

We may run into a fueling limitation thus limiting the turbo size to something smaller. 

We may run into a knock limitation thus limiting the turbo size to something smaller. 

We may run into an EGT limitation thus limiting the turbo size or power output to something smaller or lower than what's theoretically possible to produce. 

So it will come down to playing with each setup to find the best answer. We have our engineering tools which tell us what it should be, but experimentation will help with the "driving experience" aspect.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

So at the end there will be one (the best) solution that will go on the market.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> So at the end there will be one (the best) solution that will go on the market.


 That's the plan right now!


----------



## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Here's things to consider:...


 :thumbup: for honesty and realism


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Will the kit produce a blow-off sound, or will it be quiet.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> Will the kit produce a blow-off sound, or will it be quiet.


We have not altered the factory diverter valve in any way. If you have an open element filter, you should be able to hear it based on how other cars sound. If you have the factory air box, I'm pretty sure it will be faint. I don't recall hearing it much back in February, but the car had a completely stock airbox.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey Arin, any Stage 3 updates / pics?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin, any Stage 3 updates / pics?


 We don't have any updates yet worth sharing other than the install photos from other cars around the world. 

Here's our latest one in south africa:


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> we don't have any updates yet worth sharing other than the install photos from other cars around the world.
> 
> Here's our latest one in south africa:


 

boring. :d


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey Arin, any Stage 3 updates? You guys had posted pics of so many of the parts a while ago! What are you guys doing over there??


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin, any Stage 3 updates? You guys had posted pics of so many of the parts a while ago! What are you guys doing over there??


Taking all the time in the world to put something on the market.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin, any Stage 3 updates? You guys had posted pics of so many of the parts a while ago! What are you guys doing over there??


 Bump for some eye candy! Pics pics!


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin, any Stage 3 updates? You guys had posted pics of so many of the parts a while ago! What are you guys doing over there??


 Making fueling components and redesigning other parts.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

New Turbo Inlet to address clearance on LHD vehicles. 









New Turbo Manifold for more clearance for heat shields. 









Oil Return Line (couldn't find the other lines) and everyones at lunch. 









Turbo Wastegate Bracket. I have an SLA Piece but this is the finished part.


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

How come no pics of the kit installed yet?


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Making fueling components and redesigning other parts.


 Looking good! Nice to see you guys going through multiple design iterations to perfect things.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

JohnLZ7W said:


> How come no pics of the kit installed yet?


 You really can't see anything from the top. From the bottom, it's very difficult as well. 

Right now our engine is out of the car for more development.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

what is status about dealer flashing tools? do dealers have them now?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> what is status about dealer flashing tools? do dealers have them now?


Not yet and I don't know. Sorry.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

where is the ecu on the ttrs, drivers side in front of instrument cluster? anyone have removal instructions they can post?


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> where is the ecu on the ttrs, drivers side in front of instrument cluster? anyone have removal instructions they can post?


 This is 99% correct: 

http://www.goapr.com/support/ecu_removal/gti_mk5.html 

Remove Wipers 
Peel seal of plenum chamber. 
Pull plenum chamber off. 

You'll see the ECU clearly towards the passenger side. 

Where the TT-RS is different is the ECU is held in with just a plastic clip of sorts. 
Push on it and the ecu will release and slide out into your hands. Then you can clearly see the chastity belt preventing you you from unplugging the ECU. Cut slots in the bolts and remove using a flat head. (be sure to use blankets to cover up the windshield and anything else you don't want glowing metal filings attacking.  

I do recall one set had some loctite on them and were a bitch to get out. Ended up going back over them with the dremel for a second pass which seemed to help heat it up and break them free.


----------



## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

more info about this chastity belt?? so it will be easily known the ecu has been removed?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

tdi-bart said:


> more info about this chastity belt?? so it will be easily known the ecu has been removed?


 Not if you put it back together with the same shear bolts. 
That being said, if you take it in, they'll scan and see it's been flashed. 

There is no program switching available at the moment.... 

Hoping APR has the shear bolts around nowadays.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

maybe apr supplies new shear bolts?? 

people with apr ttrs chip, how are things going so far?  is that extra power still working good? :laugh:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey Arin, 

Any dealer flashing / stage 3 updates?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin,
> 
> Any dealer flashing / stage 3 updates?


 Aaaaaariiinnnnnnn...


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

no updates yet.


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## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

tdi-bart said:


> maybe apr supplies new shear bolts??
> 
> people with apr ttrs chip, how are things going so far?  is that extra power still working good? :laugh:


 love it every day but after 2 moths of owning stage 1 i thing I'm ready for more power  and second question how hard would be convert TTRS us model to DSG how much would it cost ?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

michalborz said:


> love it every day but after 2 moths of owning stage 1 i thing I'm ready for more power


 +1 

Got some exhaust stuff on order from 034..:laugh: 

Drove the B5 S4 for a week, got back into TT-RS and it felt all tame and slow again. 
NEED MOAR POWAS.


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## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

joneze93tsi said:


> +1
> 
> Drove the B5 S4 for a week, got back into TT-RS and it felt all tame and slow again.
> NEED MOAR POWAS.


 same here I have Tial 605 s4 b5 with Penske suspension and after driving it last weekend on bear mountains and go back to TTRS felt really slow


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Here's a sneak peak of the Stage III Turbocharger System!






We just want to thank The Smoking Tire for their true Journalistic Professionalism as it's something often missed in magazines and other media outlets today. They were completely unbiased in their review and we were not even asked to cover their expenses. They were a class act operation and if anyone has the chance to work with them in the future, I say go for it.


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## YYC Dubber (Jun 23, 2011)

michalborz said:


> love it every day but after 2 moths of owning stage 1 i thing I'm ready for more power  and second question how hard would be convert TTRS us model to DSG how much would it cost ?


depends on the depth of your pockets

the 7 speed DSG is probably around 7,000-$10,000

I dont wanna guess at labour...

but I can't wait for the first APR Stage 2 & 3 DSG mules to do telemetry runs....
think smoking tire said 0-60 in 2.8... if that s the MANUAL tranny than god help the Veyron Buggatti trying to race you to 60....


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

APR Exhaust and Stage 2 released! 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...I-RSC-Exhaust-System-amp-Stage-II-ECU-Upgrade!


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## RisR32 (Aug 31, 2005)

I need stg III in my life now! The suspense is killing me! :sly:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

I would like to see a Stage 3 Dyno sheet.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

R5T said:


> I would like to see a Stage 3 Dyno sheet.


Yes please!


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## Ari[email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

We will show dynos when it's finished. 

One of our 6MT cars just crossed the quarter mile line with a trap speed of 127 MPH though. He even had a boost leak / faulty sensor, so he thinks there is more in it.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Whenever I open the forum and see a recent post by Aaron, my heart skips a beat, and I rush in for new info on STG3..

127mph is ****ing moving...
I'm sure with everything at 100% he'll touch 129/130 on a good day.

You are taking deposits when? :laugh:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Movies of that can be found on Youtube, it took place on Santa Pod.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)




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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

BTW that's on stock fueling with the stock clutch.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> btw that's on stock fueling with the stock clutch.


good golly miss molley


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

joneze93tsi said:


> good golly miss molley


Ohhh, yes!


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## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> One of our 6MT cars just crossed the quarter mile line with a trap speed of 127 MPH though.


Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?


----------



## srq89 (Nov 6, 2011)

Holy **** the rear end squats on that launch. Its like free air bags.

11.37 is definitely fast. But do you guys think 10s are possible? Any idea what the 60' looks like?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jmh2002 said:


> Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?


The driver thinks he'll get into the 10's this weekend if the weather cooperates. He said the car wasn't running right, and when he got back to the shop he found a fault boost sensor and a small boost leak. I guess we'll see. That said, I'm sure many variables come into play, and he's not even running on the finished product. He's also running street tires and a full interior. 

When it comes to drag racing, and manual shifting, I wouldn't say any time is "easy". Aren't those Tial 770 B5 S4 guys just getting into the 11's with 700 HP?


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

jmh2002 said:


> Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?



Go drive a turbo street car with 600-700hp on the stock clutch to 10's and let us know how it goes.
Getting a turbo AWD car off the line properly without any driver aids is not as easy as most make it out to be. If this was a DSG car, I have no doubts it would be high 10's EASILY.

For reference a 997 Turbo S PDK can hit 10.7-10.8 @ 127-130.
NOT gonna happen with the 6mt I don't care if john force on PCP is driving it.

PS: The RS is a few hundred punds lighter as well. GO TEAM


----------



## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

For what its worth, my friends hybrid turbo 650hp manual 911 turbo does the 1/4 mile in mid 11's at this same track


----------



## jmh2002 (Jun 28, 2007)

Poverty said:


> For what its worth, my friends hybrid turbo 650hp manual 911 turbo does the 1/4 mile in mid 11's at this same track


:thumbup: Seems like everything is about right then


----------



## MitchyRS (Sep 14, 2011)

jmh2002 said:


> Ok, so I see its a 6MT, not a DSG, and 127mph is getting quick, so Im not trying to hate, but as an honest question, shouldnt a 600hp car easily run sub 11 seconds?


Yes, it should with Jonny at the wheel, perhaps not with a mediocre driver.

DSG car with 420hp so 200bhp less than this manual transmission car has done the 1/4m marginally quicker. (11.371 (DSG) vs 11.372 (6MT) ) The APR Stage 3 car is trapping 127.68mph vs Stage 2 DSG car trapping 122.3mph so the horsepower advantage is definitely there, just needs a few tweeks and Im sure the 6MT car will eventually hit the 10's. I suspect a 10.8 @ 132mph is on the cards when its finished and Jonny is on the ball, as Arin says, looks like he was having issues with a boost leak/sensor so expect a better time next time around


----------



## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

My TT RS following the APR Stage 2 + RSC mods.











First-
Kudos to Doug, Keith, Grant, and the whole team at APR who did the R&D, mule/prototyping, and delivery of my TT RS. While I was galivanting about Spain and China, they not only completed the project to better-than-OEM quality, but took care of the car, detailed it, and delivered to me at a time and place of my convenience. I am VERY impressed.

Dr. Jekyll:
- Quiet idle (more about that later)
- Linear, tractable driving about town, over hill and dale, and in difficult stop-and-go traffic.
- Amazing fuel performance: I can usually hit 29 mpg avg to work, and about 24 going home (higher traffic density) on surface streets and artery roads. That makes for 26.5 mpg on the commute- not bad, in fact incredible.
- No drive-line jerkiness or clutch difficulties, including some serious time spent while hammering along during TT-E and HelenBack. The car behaves perhaps even better than OEM: I attribute this to the increased sampling and subsequent better EMS/fuel performance of the package.

- About that quiet idle: 

Mr. Hyde:
- He reveals a small bit of himself when starting from cold iron- the precat has to hit a pretty good temperature before it stops barking, so on early AM starts for my commute I strap it all on, connect my ICE, start, listen for the sounds of good oil pressure, and drive away from my bedroom community. By the time I am at the main highway (300 yards or so, past 5 houses asleeping!), we are warm and running silent and deep, like an SSN-21 Seawolf.
- The throttle is linear, and I have not experienced any turbo lag as a result of the change in the performance graphs (see earlier thread discussions below). The car is SWEET JESUS quick. I haven't timed it, but my 60 y/o butt dyno wants to say 3.2 for 0-60 (0-100 for my Canadian friends), give or take. And there just is no need for winding it up to 3500-4000 and dumping the clutch. In fact, I consider that a recipe for disaster.
- The boost and torque come on RIGHT NOW. If the TT RS was a cruise missile before, it is now a hypersonic sub-orbital WMD, capable of obliterating modified Ms and Zs and Cs at will. PERIOD. The RS was already capable, even with quattro-induced understeer: you just point and play. Now the exit from an apex is monstrous, and straight line work is like reeling in small fish.
- I haven't probed top-end speed, and may not be able to, even at AMP. I had already hit 130mph (209kph) at AMP up on top of Eau Rouge after T16. That alone is significant. The braking and tires are limiting factors now, and I need to get Carbotechs and fluid as a minimum before the October HPDE at AMP.

Again- the quality of the work, the informativeness of the personnel, and the customer service for this R&D project are hallmarks of what lurks beneath the skin. 

While you're at it, ask Chris Conners for his impressions. I think he drove it Wednesday night, but my 60 y/o brain is suffering from the time-warp introduced by hard pulls in the TT RS!

Git ya some, as we say down South!


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey Arin, could we get a Stage 3 update??


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin, could we get a Stage 3 update??


Currently testing a few design changes. Less weight. Better design. More control. I'll have an update sometime in the near future once I have data.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

For those who've worked hard for the things they own, you deserve it.


----------



## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

^^^^^
LIKE!


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> For those who've worked hard for the things they own, you deserve it.


The Manual gearbox does this turbo kit no good at all. :facepalm:
The standing starts are awful at the least. 
This turbo kit would really bloom with a S-Tronic.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> The Manual gearbox does this turbo kit no good at all. :facepalm:
> The standing starts are awful at the least.
> This turbo kit would really bloom with a S-Tronic.


Ugh.....

This is a 6MT. Stock clutch.


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Ugh.....
> 
> This is a 6MT. Stock clutch.


Yep, still awful IMHO.

The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
> S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).


Where do people come up with this stuff


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

R5T said:


> Yep, still awful IMHO.
> 
> The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
> S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).



DAFUQ? :screwy:


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Where do people come up with this stuff


That's what Hans does all day, you should see some of the rumors and photoshops he comes up with.


----------



## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

R5T said:


> Yep, still awful IMHO.
> 
> The APR kit is apparently still under 445 ft-lbs (600 Nm) of Torque.
> S-Tronic can handle up to 480 ft-lbs (650 Nm).


You should consult the stars, the augurs, the bones, or the charts-

The APR Stg 2 + RSC is 464 lbs-ft TQ. Whether or not Audi imports that with a DSG is likely a marketing, not a technical, decision.


----------



## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> Currently testing a few design changes. Less weight. Better design. More control. I'll have an update sometime in the near future once I have data.


----------



## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

R5T said:


> The Manual gearbox does this turbo kit no good at all. :facepalm:
> The standing starts are awful at the least.
> This turbo kit would really bloom with a S-Tronic.


Comeon Hans everything you say these days is negative!

Wheres the old you gone, and the love of audi power?


----------



## sicgolfrowner (Apr 9, 2012)

Marty said:


>


 I need to start visiting this side of the forums more often :laugh:


----------



## PainIs4ThaWeak (Sep 6, 2012)

As a foreword, I didn't come to troll, or flame on APR, or VW/Audi in general, or any one of you, but after a good amount of reading on this chassis and powertrain, theres a few things that haven't been discussed in this thread that I think need to be said... 

The TT-RS and APR's offering of a GTX30 / GTX35 based upgrade is definitely cool - but for ~$8k, people are seeing 500-600whp from internally unmodified, GT35 powered, 2 liters, reliably - while still trapping 11sec 1/4mi times in the 120-130mph range (Think Honda K20). 
I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k. They'd really have my attention if it was in the $10k - $15k range (though I highly doubt it), which even then, considering performance vs. total cost (including vehicle), it'd probably be pretty close to the 0-60 times of a GT-R, though it'd also cost roughly as much as well. A 2009 GT-R can be found in the upper $50k range, about the same as the 2012 TTRS. It seems common assumption, however, that an aftermarket uprated clutch would be needed for any kind of longevity with a GTX30 / 35 on the TT-RS. Arin also mentioned connecting rods, specifically, to make the power reliably (which actually surprises me somewhat). 
Assuming the above, why not just start with an equivalent platform from another manufacturer? :\ (namely, the GT-R) 

The other thing that really annoys me - and I'm not sure if this is due to APR withholding knowledge to assure their place in the business, or if its due to Audi/VW's ECU logic and encryption algorithims (REALLY? We're encrypting ECU's now? WTH for??) - is that with the TT-RS and a "flash" based tune (or what I would call a "base map"), there is no solution to alter/implement things like launch control RPM or two step; Boost-by-gear mappings; DATALOG! (thats a big one); adjust stability control/traction control (by means other than the pre-determined configurations stored on the console/dash buttons); force diagnostic sensors on/off (eg. - if you're using a speed density tune, then you have no need for a mass airflow sensor - I'd bet the TT-RS will throw a CEL if you were to remove the MAF on a speed density tune (which is probably what APR reflashes are based on) or if you were to remove a secondary oxygen sensor, in the case of no cat. converter, effectively making it impossible to pass inspection legally in many states.); add and map new sensors to the ECU, to be controlled and/or monitored by the ECU logic and installed mapping; or even just VIEW diagnostic trouble codes. 
Dare I say, that this makes Hondata and Cobb solutions superior to what APR is offering. But again, I don't know if its due to the extent of barricades that Audi/VW has put in place on their ECUs, and the effort involved with flashing them, or if its APR not wanting to share "secrets", and monopolize. 

No two 'like" cars are going to be exactly the same. Nor are two "like" powertrains going to be exactly the same, and I'm not convinced that the quality control exercised on the powertrain of the TT-RS is stringent enough (or even could be stringent enough) that a blanket reflash is going to be accurate for _every_ TT-RS to extract all potential power (or in the case of a slightly less capable powertrain: reduce power, by means of timing and fueling - Of course, this is dependent on how aggressive APR is with their re-flashes - though I'm sure it'll be fine for a very high margin of customers - which is my case and point...) 

Having said that - I'd really like to see a full-on tuning solution (eg. Hondata / Cobb / etc) that utilizes the OEM ECU, and retains the OEM ECU logic (vs. a "piggy-back" or replacement ECU system [eg. AEM EMS]) - At that point, anyone with tuning knowledge, or a third party tuner, would have the ability to apply accurate ignition timing and fueling for open and closed loop operation, while targeting desired AFRs without knock - all the while being able to pass state mandated safety/emissions inspections (assuming no visual inspection is done, in the case no cat is present.) 

[flamesuiton]


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> As a foreword, I didn't come to troll, or flame on APR, or VW/Audi in general, or any one of you, but after a good amount of reading on this chassis and powertrain, theres a few things that haven't been discussed in this thread that I think need to be said...
> 
> The TT-RS and APR's offering of a GTX30 / GTX35 based upgrade is definitely cool - but for ~$8k, people are seeing 500-600whp from internally unmodified, GT35 powered, 2 liters, reliably - while still trapping 11sec 1/4mi times in the 120-130mph range (Think Honda K20).
> I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k. They'd really have my attention if it was in the $10k - $15k range (though I highly doubt it), which even then, considering performance vs. total cost (including vehicle), it'd probably be pretty close to the 0-60 times of a GT-R, though it'd also cost roughly as much as well. A 2009 GT-R can be found in the upper $50k range, about the same as the 2012 TTRS. It seems common assumption, however, that an aftermarket uprated clutch would be needed for any kind of longevity with a GTX30 / 35 on the TT-RS. Arin also mentioned connecting rods, specifically, to make the power reliably (which actually surprises me somewhat).
> ...


 This is your first post, on a subject you are ill informed on. 
Of course you are a troll, so please go elsewhere.


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## mtbscoTT (Jan 14, 2003)

I'm kind of at a loss too. Guy joins the forum just to say he really doesn't know much about VAG technology, but that he thinks APR sucks or is "withholding" information. 
And then wonders why they don't just tune Nissans instead?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

mtbscoTT said:


> I'm kind of at a loss too. Guy joins the forum just to say he really doesn't know much about VAG technology, but that he thinks APR sucks or is "withholding" information.
> And then wonders why they don't just tune Nissans instead?


 Exactly, he has no purpose other than to troll, then says, "I'm not here to troll". 

DAFUQ? :what:


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## PainIs4ThaWeak (Sep 6, 2012)

Just stated facts. Point out errors if you find any. 

Otherwise, thanks for your valuable input :thumbup:


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> Assuming the above, why not just start with an equivalent platform from another manufacturer? :\ (namely, the GT-R)[flamesuiton]


 why don't you go to nagtroc and post over there? dun feed the troll. :screwy:


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k.


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## PainIs4ThaWeak (Sep 6, 2012)

Thanks for the warm welcome, ass hat. 

So - Why am I here? 
A. Evaluating whether or not the TT-RS is a platform I want to have in my garage or not. 


Regarding VAG - Got it now, after reading -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VAG-COM 

Still doesn't allow manipulation of fuel, ignition, and several other aspects I mentioned in #484. That doesn't help users much when they add/remove power-adders.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> Thanks for the warm welcome, ass hat.
> 
> So - Why am I here?
> A. Evaluating whether or not the TT-RS is a platform I want to have in my garage or not.
> ...


 
You don't want one. 
Go buy a GT-R or build a K20T in a bubble and have fun. 
This platform sucks and you don't want any part of it.


----------



## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

probably a new account created by "ThatVDub"...


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> Still doesn't allow manipulation of fuel, ignition, and several other aspects I mentioned in #484. That doesn't help users much when they add/remove power-adders.


 VAG ECUs work a bit differently than what you're used to. With something like a Subaru once you have Stage 1 with an access port you go off and add an intake, or change the exhaust you need to get back to the dyno or at least tweak the tune for the change. 
With the VAG ECUs you can just toss an exhaust or intake on and the ECU will adapt to take advantage of increased flow without a retune. 

There are some places where you need a bit more than that such as the stage 2 tune where the downpipe is swapped out. At that point an update is needed to make the most of the change but the ECU doesn't care if it's an 034 or APR downpipe, it'll adapt. 

I'm sure you could make more power with a custom tune but it's a lot more money to do it and the APR/GIAC/REVOs of the world get you 90%.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

JohnLZ7W said:


> VAG ECUs work a bit differently than what you're used to. With something like a Subaru once you have Stage 1 with an access port you go off and add an intake, or change the exhaust you need to get back to the dyno or at least tweak the tune for the change.
> With the VAG ECUs you can just toss an exhaust or intake on and the ECU will adapt to take advantage of increased flow without a retune.
> 
> There are some places where you need a bit more than that such as the stage 2 tune where the downpipe is swapped out. At that point an update is needed to make the most of the change but the ECU doesn't care if it's an 034 or APR downpipe, it'll adapt.
> ...


 
Had to explain this to a Subaru friend of mine. They can't change an intake without the ECU going bat**** crazy. He didn't understand the concept of the Motronic's adaptability to things like airflow and octane. You can swing 20-50hp depending on fuel/air/ ect. without any changes.


----------



## PainIs4ThaWeak (Sep 6, 2012)

See, now thats the kind of information I was expecting. Thanks for that. 

I wasn't aware that the ECU runs in full-time closed loop.


----------



## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> See, now thats the kind of information I was expecting. Thanks for that.
> 
> I wasn't aware that the ECU runs in full-time closed loop.


 And yes the VAG ECU encryption gets trickier for tuners to work around all the time, VAG doesn't really like people messing with the cars. Do a search for the TD1 code to see how far this has gone.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> See, now thats the kind of information I was expecting. Thanks for that.
> 
> I wasn't aware that the ECU runs in full-time closed loop.


 There are tuners out there that can custom tune Motronic systems though - although not sure about the latest offerings like that on the TTRS. I have a full custom tuned Motronic ECU on my B5 S4 but it's far less complicated of an ECU than the current systems.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> The TT-RS and APR's offering of a GTX30 / GTX35 based upgrade is definitely cool - but for ~$8k, people are seeing 500-600whp from internally unmodified, GT35 powered, 2 liters, reliably - while still trapping 11sec 1/4mi times in the 120-130mph range (Think Honda K20).
> I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k. They'd really have my attention if it was in the $10k - $15k range (though I highly doubt it), which even then, considering performance vs. total cost (including vehicle),


 The price will be affordable, and will be lower than you think, especially if you're guessing $30k. 



> The other thing that really annoys me - and I'm not sure if this is due to APR withholding knowledge to assure their place in the business, or if its due to Audi/VW's ECU logic and encryption algorithims (REALLY? We're encrypting ECU's now? WTH for??)


 ECU's are encrypted for many reasons. Think how much easier it is for audi to diagnose an issue if they know the ECU is not tinkered by the end user. 



> - is that with the TT-RS and a "flash" based tune (or what I would call a "base map"), there is no solution to alter/implement things like launch control RPM or two step; Boost-by-gear mappings;


 Some of this can be added into the tune by APR. 



> DATALOG! (thats a big one);


 You can do this with vag-com. APR's ECUX datalogging is extremely fast and not everyone knows how to do it, so we don't sell it as it would be great in the hands of our competitors. 



> adjust stability control/traction control (by means other than the pre-determined configurations stored on the console/dash buttons);


 Not all ECU controlled. 



> force diagnostic sensors on/off


 We can do that, although most you wouldn't want to turn off. 



> (eg. - if you're using a speed density tune, then you have no need for a mass airflow sensor - I'd bet the TT-RS will throw a CEL if you were to remove the MAF on a speed density tune (which is probably what APR reflashes are based on) or if you were to remove a secondary oxygen sensor, in the case of no cat. converter, effectively making it impossible to pass inspection legally in many states.);


 The TTRS doesn't have a MAF. 

We wouldn't turn it off if it did. 



> add and map new sensors to the ECU, to be controlled and/or monitored by the ECU logic and installed mapping; or even just VIEW diagnostic trouble codes.


 M E G A difficult. Bosch MED9 is too complex for this to be easy. 



> Dare I say, that this makes Hondata and Cobb solutions superior to what APR is offering. But again, I don't know if its due to the extent of barricades that Audi/VW has put in place on their ECUs, and the effort involved with flashing them, or if its APR not wanting to share "secrets", and monopolize.


 We are offering a turn key solution, not something end tuners need to mess with. The ECU in a TTRS is lightyears more advanced and complex compared to the honda or subi. 



> No two 'like" cars are going to be exactly the same. Nor are two "like" powertrains going to be exactly the same, and I'm not convinced that the quality control exercised on the powertrain of the TT-RS is stringent enough (or even could be stringent enough) that a blanket reflash is going to be accurate for _every_ TT-RS to extract all potential power (or in the case of a slightly less capable powertrain: reduce power, by means of timing and fueling - Of course, this is dependent on how aggressive APR is with their re-flashes - though I'm sure it'll be fine for a very high margin of customers - which is my case and point...)


 TTRS ecu is very smart, so it doesn't need to be custom for every vehicle.


----------



## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Like batman, Arin quickly flies in to the rescue and just as quickly is gone again. 

Someone must have turned on the bat, I mean Arin light.


----------



## PainIs4ThaWeak (Sep 6, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> The price will be affordable, and will be lower than you think, especially if you're guessing $30k.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Qwells a good majority of my concerns. Thanks as well, Arin.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey Arin, any tasty Stage 3 updates? Maybe some teaser pics of the new intercooler? C'mon!!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hey Arin, you guys snoozin' over there or what?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Hey Arin, you guys snoozin' over there or what?


0 snoozing here. We changed everything.


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## dubbinitmk6 (Oct 26, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> 0 snoozing here. We changed everything.


Can't wait for some news releases!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> 0 snoozing here. We changed everything.


Can't share any tidbits?


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Does that mean you turned the turbo the right way around.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> Does that mean you turned the turbo the right way around.


Turning it the other way around would be a total disaster.

1. Theres no room
2. All of the plumbing would need to be remade
3. plumbing to the intercooler and into the throttle body would be a backwards nightmare. 
4. The intake system would be a nightmare.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> Can't share any tidbits?


New manifold
New turbo hotside
New turbo
New downpipe
New turbo inlet
New wastegate
New oil lines
New coolant lines
New turbo discharge pipe
New turbo discharge hose
New intercooler
New fueling

: )


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## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> New manifold
> 
> *New downpipe*
> 
> ...


hmmm that means the downpipe I just purchased for stage 2 wont work with stage 3 ?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

michalborz said:


> hmmm that means the downpipe I just purchased for stage 2 wont work with stage 3 ?


 It's only the part connected to the turbo. It connects to rest of the APR downpipe, which is required for this system.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Damn,

Even the forum I usually watch for updates on this overseas has been dead for a few weeks.

Guessing he's switching over to the new stuff.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> New manifold
> New turbo hotside
> New turbo
> New downpipe
> ...


New compared to the last hardware beta?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

I'll show everyone soon. Just hold tight for a couple weeks. Lots going on right now.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> New manifold
> New turbo hotside
> New turbo
> New downpipe
> ...


Does this also mean less lag for the new layout. ???


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

R5T said:


> Does this also mean less lag for the new layout. ???


what lag? Have you driven one


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Poverty said:


> what lag? Have you driven one


Has he even driven any TTRS?


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Has he even driven any TTRS?


Zing!


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Poverty said:


> what lag? Have you driven one


If i may believe Matt Farrah the APR TT RS has lag up to 3500 rpm at leased.
btw, not that many APR stage 3 test drive cars around.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

I guess if they wanted to reduce lag to 0% they could remove the turbo.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

lpriley32 said:


> I guess if they wanted to reduce lag to 0% they could remove the turbo.


Or made it a "Twincharger" with a compressor for the low ref range.
Remove the airco pump and you have a nice space for installing a Rotrex Compressor.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

R5T said:


> Or made it a "Twincharger" with a compressor for the low ref range.
> Remove the airco pump and you have a nice space for installing a Rotrex Compressor.


yeah, i was just being a smartass and all that is jibberish to me. Why are you not working with someone to develope these parts or install them on an RS if you already know how to reduce the lag? Just curious.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

R5T said:


> If i may believe Matt Farrah the APR TT RS has lag up to 3500 rpm at leased.
> btw, not that many APR stage 3 test drive cars around.


I've seen some reviews complain about lag with stock programming but I've never really noticed it, have you? Some people are used to driving NA engines and so any small amount of lag is noticeable. Other people are used to turbocharged engines and a little lag isn't anywhere near as troubling.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

JohnLZ7W said:


> I've seen some reviews complain about lag with stock programming but I've never really noticed it, have you? Some people are used to driving NA engines and so any small amount of lag is noticeable. Other people are used to turbocharged engines and a little lag isn't anywhere near as troubling.


this.

No more lag than a stock turbo.

I have been in the stage 3 car


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Everyone watch out, the LAG POLICE are back.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

*h2o International.*


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Apparently APR binned everything and started all over from scratch, with this as a result.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

R5T said:


> Apparently APR binned everything and started all over from scratch, with this as a result.


Will be fun to run that wastegate straight out the side of the car


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

R5T said:


> Apparently APR binned everything and started all over from scratch, with this as a result.


Now we're talking! Glad they ditched that old 4-bolt flange design.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Marty said:


> Now we're talking! Glad they ditched that old 4-bolt flange design.


yep, but it is still upside down IMHO.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> yep, but it is still upside down IMHO.


----------



## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


>


R5T thinks theres enough room to turn the turbo around so that the air intake pipe doesnt pass over a hot turbo


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


>


C'mon Arin, you going to let R5T show you up with juicy pictures of your own turbo kit?


----------



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Marty said:


> C'mon Arin, you going to let R5T show you up with juicy pictures of your own turbo kit?


I'm not the one putting the picture on internet in the first place, i only put up the picture link that is already on there.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Marty said:


> C'mon Arin, you going to let R5T show you up with juicy pictures of your own turbo kit?


That's from a while back and it's posted on facebook. 

I'll post the real piece later this week if I have time.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, here's an update I'm finally getting around to posting.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

shes a beauty


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Poverty said:


> shes a beauty


When I have time later this week, I'll post up the entire thing put together with all the new bits.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> When I have time later this week, I'll post up the entire thing put together with all the new bits.


I will keep reminding you!


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

[email protected] said:


> When I have time later this week, I'll post up the entire thing put together with all the new bits.


YES!


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## Black BeauTTy (Jun 11, 2011)

Ooooh, very Medusa-like!:thumbup:


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## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Well, here's an update I'm finally getting around to posting.


Nice indeed...3 questions if I may.

*Question1*: I read an Audi article indicating that the manual gearbox can handle a MAX of 600Nm of torque so are the various development TT-RS running S3 on stock clutch and gearbox? *If * answer is a no, would that mean an upgraded clutch and gearbox needs to be factored in to the cost for those who want a S3 kit?

*Question2*: Can you confirm at this early stage what the BHP and Torque figures would be on offer...I would assume that there is a baseline figure being aimed for by APR. 

*Question3*: Can you confirm if the stock exhaust can be used...I think I have read that it can however if you can refresh my memory that would be good.

Am grateful to APR, am sure others would hopefully agree, that we get info to keep us up to speed on development...it helps shape views as APR get the product through the various test phases prior to launch. Also offcourse means less marketing budget is required at time of launch...one hopes...!!! 


*Some thoughts for those contemplating Stage3 kit - as I am and been waiting since 2010*
In my experience as an owner of the TT-RS from new at launch, thus since 2009, I have noted the following experience going through the various engine mods...;

- Stock car is for the buyer/owner of a TT-RS who just wants to sample that glorious 5-pot engine note hence the car would be left in stock trim barring a few 'go faster ' stickers...(I jest offcourse on the stickers...!!!). *The car would never see action on track.* I was in this camp until I tracked the car once then all the mods followed to fix various issues not apparent whilst using the car on streets only...!

- *Stage1 (S1) *is for the buyer/owner of a TT-RS who tracks the car a few times a year and wants increased performance - in balance the car is perhaps used 75% on streets and 25% on track. In my case I found compared to the Stock car, S1 with the increased torque meant I no longer needed to shift down 2 gears in to slow corners thus at worst just shift down 1 gear approaching a slow corner and still exit at a higher speed compared to a Stock car. 

- *Stage2 (S2) *is for the buyer/owner of a TT-RS who tracks the car on regular basis and seeks improved exhaust note (assuming de-CAT of primary or secondary CATS or uprated exhaust) with marginal increased in performance. In my case S2 also meant that for track use I could use 4th gear for a variety of slow corners where as S1 would require 3rd gear and stock would definitely have required 2nd gear. S2 also marginally offered improved throttle response over S1. I use my S2 car 75% for track and 25% for streets just for fun and improving on my driving skills - many of my friends who have been in my cars to date would argue that improving on my driving skills may not be a bad idea....

- *Stage3 (S3)* I would assume then that this is for the buyer/owner of a TT-RS who aims use the car mostly for track events ranging from drag racing to time trial events or just fun on track to improve their driving skills further? 

I could not possibly imagine how much quicker/faster a S3 car would feel like on track given the 650BHP/750Nm+ being claimed to be on offer in such a small weight car...especially a short track where power is not necessary...handling; driving skills and good brakes are what would be important based on my experience.

Anyway, I think those contemplating a S3 kit - am firmly in that camp and have been since 2010 - should consider the following NOW, ahead of S3 being released...;
- uprated brakes all round...thus fluid; pads; discs; brake cooling - the most important aspect!

- uprated chassis (_These changes helps make use of all that power be put to the tarmac else it is wasted energy_!)...thus;
...ARBs (rear only); 
...bushes (fronts only); 
...lower engine mount (stops 'to & fro' rocking); 
...suspension (if you have MagneRide then it just needs better matched springs. If you have non-MagneRide then am afraid a C/O kit is best option). 

- improved driving skills...I promise you, a S1/S2 car is a bullet and those who have uprated can testify to that. Your reaction time would also need to be uprated to keep up with S3...assuming you will be doing more than just drag racing!

Just some thoughts...


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

With V-band connections you have so much more possibilities, turbo and waste-gate wise.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

996cab said:


> *Question1*: I read an Audi article indicating that the manual gearbox can handle a MAX of 600Nm of torque so are the various development TT-RS running S3 on stock clutch and gearbox? *If * answer is a no, would that mean an upgraded clutch and gearbox needs to be factored in to the cost for those who want a S3 kit?


Typically stage 3 has always required an upgraded clutch. However, we are surprised to see the OEM clutch taking massive abuse without issue. We'll continue to see how it holds up, but one should budget an upgraded clutch if considering stage 3. 



> *Question2*: Can you confirm at this early stage what the BHP and Torque figures would be on offer...I would assume that there is a baseline figure being aimed for by APR.


I can't say yet. We've changed quite a few items. 



> *Question3*: Can you confirm if the stock exhaust can be used...I think I have read that it can however if you can refresh my memory that would be good.


The system will require our downpipe at a bare minimum. 



> Am grateful to APR, am sure others would hopefully agree, that we get info to keep us up to speed on development...it helps shape views as APR get the product through the various test phases prior to launch. Also offcourse means less marketing budget is required at time of launch...one hopes...!!!
> 
> Thank you. We took a different approach to our development on this one and chose to share most of it along the way. I believe some think the process is simple. You design a manifold, and it's done. We'll as you can now see, we've designed a manifold (The one we showed before was not the only design) long term tested it, and eventually scrapped the design for another. It's not cheap on our end, but it does help to make a better product for you.
> 
> ...


----------



## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Typically stage 3 has always required an upgraded clutch. However, we are surprised to see the OEM clutch taking massive abuse without issue. We'll continue to see how it holds up, but one should budget an upgraded clutch if considering stage 3.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thx Arin for taking the time - knowing the demands on your time from the various forums alone, Lord only knows how you manage to make the time to respond...much appreciated. :thumbup:

On the clutch, am surprised though I was aware that the UK S3 test TT-RS has had no clutch change from new having gone through various testing by a current Pro Racer...Audi got the clutch & gearbox right though not the brakes and handling...shame!...:thumbdown:

On the power...provided S3 makes 510WHP (_thus 600BHP assuming a 15% drivetrain lose_) with 650Nm torque then that would be something very special to keep in the fleet forever and an age...I always knew I had be keeping this little sleeper when I ordered it back in 2009...super!.

Last question, and I was one of the few that thought S3 will not hit in 2012...
*...Q: are we likely to see S3 before Spring 2013? 
*
Would be good to fit in time to play from Q2 2013 as I prefer not to tamper during the 'fun' season thus Autumn or towards end of Winter are best time for mods & upgrades imo.


----------



## 996cab (Aug 13, 2011)

PainIs4ThaWeak said:


> As a foreword, I didn't come to troll, or flame on APR, or VW/Audi in general, or any one of you, but after a good amount of reading on this chassis and powertrain, theres a few things that haven't been discussed in this thread that I think need to be said...
> 
> The TT-RS and APR's offering of a GTX30 / GTX35 based upgrade is definitely cool - but for ~$8k, people are seeing 500-600whp from internally unmodified, GT35 powered, 2 liters, reliably - while still trapping 11sec 1/4mi times in the 120-130mph range (Think Honda K20).
> I'll say its a great buy if their kit doesn't end up costing $30k. They'd really have my attention if it was in the $10k - $15k range (though I highly doubt it), which even then, considering performance vs. total cost (including vehicle), it'd probably be pretty close to the 0-60 times of a GT-R, though it'd also cost roughly as much as well. A 2009 GT-R can be found in the upper $50k range, about the same as the 2012 TTRS. It seems common assumption, however, that an aftermarket uprated clutch would be needed for any kind of longevity with a GTX30 / 35 on the TT-RS. Arin also mentioned connecting rods, specifically, to make the power reliably (which actually surprises me somewhat).
> ...


Welcome to the forum and thx for raising the queries though apologise for the reception received.


I have read the various helpful responses given by Arin and John thus you should be better informed as to the operation of the ECU on a VAG platform or specifically the TT-RS. 

The plus point as I see it is that you can now expand the knowledge of your peers so that they are also better informed as oppose to making assumptions...it is a win / win for all.

Finally, congrats for hanging around long enough to be better informed...as I say to my kids...knowledge is power and one *SHOULD NEVER STOP ASKING QUESTIONS* regardless of how dumb the questions may sound to those better informed...!


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

I wonder if this stage 3 kit will fit in the future MQB based TT RS or need a re-development for that.
Not plan to fit it in a end of his life circle car.
Next year the TT Mk3 will be show to the public, a year later the TT-S and a year after that the TT RS.


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## rastta (Feb 22, 1999)

R5T said:


> I wonder if this stage 3 kit will fit in the future MQB based TT RS or need a re-development for that.
> Not plan to fit it in a end of his life circle car.
> Next year the TT Mk3 will be show to the public, a year later the TT-S and a year after that the TT RS.


Actually I was wondering if it would fit in the MK4 TTRS...........:screwy:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)




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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

How about some intercooler pics??


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

modern sexy toy


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## michalborz (May 14, 2004)

Look what show up on my doorstep today


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## systemz (Mar 15, 2009)

Whats the current wait time for the stage2 exhaust? it seems like im approaching 2 months~


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

So, what about turbo and waste-gate pictures. ?


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

R5T said:


> So, what about turbo and waste-gate pictures. ?


You've seen those already haven't you?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Copied..





jonnyc said:


> Hey..
> 
> Just wanted to bring this thread up to date with the latest developments too..
> 
> ...


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

joneze93tsi said:


>


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

and where will the waste gate pipe go. ???


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

JohnLZ7W said:


> You've seen those already haven't you?


???


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

R5T said:


> and where will the waste gate pipe go. ???


I can only assume that there is a port on the back of the downpipe piece that we can't see in the picture.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Would that part in the left upper conner of the picture be it. (waste-gate pipe)


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

R5T said:


> Would that part in the left upper conner of the picture be it. (waste-gate pipe)


Could be, though the Tial acts as a right-angle, so I'm not quite sure how that other right angle prototype piece on the upper left corner could connect to the Tial and into the downpipe unless the downpipe has a cast flange that comes out a bit on the other side.

That yellow prototype piece definitely looks like it uses two V-band clamps that are the same size as the wastegate bands, so good eyes!


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Arin - I guess asking for an ETA for releasing the kit at this point is pretty much a meaningless exercise? 

On a more practical note, is the new setup going to require a completely different downpipe than your current design? I can see the straight sections of pipe, including the cat still fitting up of course. Knowing whether going Stage 2 now is going to offset some of the costs of going Stage 3 later would be good information to have and could help me justify Stage 2 as a way to 'build up' towards Stage 3 in the future. 

Thanks


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

hightechrdn said:


> Arin - I guess asking for an ETA for releasing the kit at this point is pretty much a meaningless exercise?
> 
> On a more practical note, is the new setup going to require a completely different downpipe than your current design? I can see the straight sections of pipe, including the cat still fitting up of course. Knowing whether going Stage 2 now is going to offset some of the costs of going Stage 3 later would be good information to have and could help me justify Stage 2 as a way to 'build up' towards Stage 3 in the future.
> 
> Thanks


Just like our other stage 3 kits, the downpipe will be compatible. The front section is discarded as a new part is included with the kit. The rest of the downpipe then attaches to the stage 3 kit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> and where will the waste gate pipe go. ???


It will go into the downpipe section.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> It will go into the downpipe section.


Into the downpipe section not shown in the picture, because that part shown in the picture is probably called downpipe elbow, right


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

It will go into a part not shown. We have not forgotten about this crucial part.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

I wonder why APR did not go the V-band route from the start, this manifold really looks state of the art with all the V-band connections.

Second, will the compressor used in the V-band configuration have the same size as it did in the T3 configuration. ?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> I wonder why APR did not go the V-band route from the start, this manifold really looks state of the art with all the V-band connections.


Our goal was to keep the turbo internally gated, however after testing found that would not be a route we can tak for production. 



> Second, will the compressor used in the V-band configuration have the same size as it did in the T3 configuration. ?


Right now, yes.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Do we get to see any time soon APR turbo pictures. (not the UK one)

And will it have TIAL housing or a APR developed V-band housing.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Any updates Arin?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Still plugging away at it!


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Still plugging away at it!


 What about some pre Christmas part pictures. ?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> What about some pre Christmas part pictures. ?


 I can eventually, but I have several other projects in the way right now.


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## Cersey (Jan 1, 2013)

Hey Arin! 

Was wondering how the Stage 3 will be on the Stronic TT RS since the MT ones will have an upgrade clutch and when I look around there is no upgrade yet for the Stronic but I might be wrong, will it handle the power well? And did you guys test it on Stronic TT RS?

And how about some updates to kick off the new year - happy new year guys!eace:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

German HGP-Turbo use the RS3 (TT RS) S-Tronic in this car with a 8 disc clutch upgrade, it can now handle 925 Nm of torque without a problem. 

http://www.hgp-turbo.de/golf-vi-sonderumbau.html


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## Cersey (Jan 1, 2013)

R5T said:


> German HGP-Turbo use the RS3 (TT RS) S-Tronic in this car with a 8 disc clutch upgrade, it can now handle 925 Nm of torque without a problem.
> 
> http://www.hgp-turbo.de/golf-vi-sonderumbau.html


That's a relief


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Still plugging away at it!


Any progress as of late.


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## RisR32 (Aug 31, 2005)

R5T said:


> Any progress as of late.


x2


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Looks like the TT RS stage 3 is in hibernation.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

When i look around in turbo land, the APR stage 3 turbo kit make more and more sense.
There is nothing more interesting out there that is worth the money if you change the turbo.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> Looks like the TT RS stage 3 is in hibernation.


It's not. We're casting new parts right now as we hit a few airflow limits! :laugh:


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> It's not. We're casting new parts right now as we hit a few airflow limits! :laugh:


You mean again new parts, after the first V-band one.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

R5T said:


> You mean again new parts, after the first V-band one.


Correct


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I think you need a nice TT RS Stronic testing stage 3 in Germany 
As I'm hopefully in MK next week getting an updated map,it would be a good time to get the kit fitted,ready to test on the Autobahns once the spring comes ??


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Correct


 So what about some teasers of the new parts.


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## Cersey (Jan 1, 2013)

R5T said:


> So what about some teasers of the new parts.


 :thumbup:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

R5T said:


> So what about some teasers of the new parts.


 We get no APR love around here.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

CFD rules.


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## Cersey (Jan 1, 2013)

Any updates Arin??


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Cersey said:


> Any updates Arin??


Final castings are being made now. 

The intercooler is in development now, and it's the largest one on the market. :thumbup:


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## 311-in-337 (Feb 19, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> Final castings are being made now.
> 
> The intercooler is in development now, and it's the largest one on the market. :thumbup:



Arin, 

Is the intercooler targeted toward the stage 3 kit, or will it be suitable for the stage 1 and 2 as well?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

311-in-337 said:


> Arin,
> 
> Is the intercooler targeted toward the stage 3 kit, or will it be suitable for the stage 1 and 2 as well?


It's targeted for stock to stage 3 and beyond.


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## burtomr (Jun 17, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> It's targeted for stock to stage 3 and beyond.


The best part: *"......and beyond."*


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

burtomr said:


> The best part: *"......and beyond."*


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

big is not always better,lol
real on the road performance is whats important.
With my small Forge IC intakes stay below 25c ambient,even after miles at full power on the autobahns.
Rollin roads will give completely different figures


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## [email protected] (Dec 27, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> big is not always better,lol
> real on the road performance is whats important.
> With my small Forge IC intakes stay below 25c ambient,even after miles at full power on the autobahns.
> Rollin roads will give completely different figures


An air/air intercooler at 100% efficiency is having charge air exiting the intercooler at ambient temperature. No air/air intercooler can cool charge temps to 25* C below ambient.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> An air/air intercooler at 100% efficiency is having charge air exiting the intercooler at ambient temperature. No air/air intercooler can cool charge temps to 25* C below ambient.


Glad someone said it.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> An air/air intercooler at 100% efficiency is having charge air exiting the intercooler at ambient temperature. No air/air intercooler can cool charge temps to 25* C below ambient.


But that's not what he said is it? He said the peak IC out temps are 25^C


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

JohnLZ7W said:


> But that's not what he said is it? He said the peak IC out temps are 25^C



That can't be a steady figure....
the Post intercooler temps can't be any lower than ambient, so on a 30c day, it's certainly not going ot stay below 25c


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jaybyme said:


> big is not always better,lol


Correct.

However given tiny options currently available, size will matter.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I meant to say that the max intake temperature I have seen is +25c over ambient,no matter how hard the car is pushed with full power over many miles on the Autobahn.
Cruise at 140 mph and intakes can be as low as +7c
Cruise at 85 mph and intakes are slightly higher.
When you give full gas, initially intakes drop,but then slowly rise.
The car really suffers if it's been standing.
If you start off with intakes reading 70c,they never really come down below +10c.
The sensors must be influenced by engine bay temps.
I can take the car out of the garage in the morning with ambients at -12c,and ithe intakes are still reading +16c for the first few miles,which obviously can't be right.
In my other car,(Renault R26) intakes will actually read lower than ambients for the first few miles,then rise to +3c under normal driving,maxing at +18c
I can see that a bigger cooler could be more efficient,but I find it hard to believe that there are gains of 40 + Hp like Forge claim on the open road ?
Also, if I want to stay legal here in Germany,the number plate will be blocking the air flow of the larger cooler.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

Spent time at AMP yesterday wearing in the new Michelin PSS tires and the 034 RSB. A fine day with great weather and lots of fun. 

My software is flawless. Extended runs in 3rd up to and holding near redline (between T6-T9) are uneventful, even hauling my heavyweight son-in-law as a pax. He gave out after he reported he was feeling uncomfortable coming up T15-T16 real hard in 5th! The software was consistent, had a linear feel without any peaks/valleys, and not a single hiccup or CEL. Kudos to Arin, Doug, and the whole team at APR. The TTRS Stage 2+RSC gets envious looks when I pit in or out, and admiring stares when I cruise the paddock. 

The 034 RSB is a godsend. In soft, the car points easily, scrubs MUCH less, and turns-in so well, even with a bit of trail braking. Absolutely incredible. Don't know if I'll use the hard setting (400+% OEM stiffness) or not. I'll wait for the Advan AD008 before I get stickier and MIGHT need more RSB roll stiffness. 

A great day. GO APR!


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

*Is this project dead and buried * 

Where are all the new developed part pictures. ???


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2004)

R5T said:


> *Is this project dead and buried *
> 
> Where are all the new developed part pictures. ???


working on it right now. :wave:


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## [email protected] (Sep 28, 2004)

jaybyme said:


> The sensors must be influenced by engine bay temps.


You are most certainly right. The IAT sensor is mounted in the intake manifold (aluminum) which becomes heat soaked and then influences the sensor's reading. What does this mean?? IATs should be taken with a small grain if salt. Also means we should move the IAT sensor to get more accurate numbers for IAT compensation.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

RTErnie said:


> working on it right now. :wave:


With something B I G :laugh:


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

RTErnie said:


> You are most certainly right. The IAT sensor is mounted in the intake manifold (aluminum) which becomes heat soaked and then influences the sensor's reading. What does this mean?? IATs should be taken with a small grain if salt. Also means we should move the IAT sensor to get more accurate numbers for IAT compensation.


audi brings up that exact issue in their docs. sounds like the ecu is already looking at the temp sensor outside the mani...

check page 39...
http://www.jlosee.com/images/TTRS/PDF/TT RS w 2500cc 5 cylinder TFSI.pdf


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> With something B I G :laugh:


How about a dyno comparison of stage 2 original and stage 2 LO?


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## canuckttrs (Feb 5, 2012)

LynxFX said:


> How about a dyno comparison of stage 2 original and stage 2 LO?


opcorn:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LynxFX said:


> How about a dyno comparison of stage 2 original and stage 2 LO?


We're in the process of getting a vehicle in house to look over everything. The last vehicle we had in house was unable to reproduce the misfires while logging, so it left with the normal file and he's only reported good things. That's not to say some others aren't, you included. I've listened to the feedback and I'm not pleased we have several unhappy customers, at all, and we're committed to making each of you happy.

Our new lead calibrator will be working on the TTRS stage 1 and 2+ files once a vehicle is in house to verify the calibration, make any necessary changes, add features, and search for more power. We also have several hardware items on the way which will be applied to our stage 3 kit which can also go towards a higher output "Stage 2+" fully bolted on stock turbo calibration if all things go as expected. I anticipate we'll begin working on the existing software this month.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

LynxFX said:


> How about a dyno comparison of stage 2 original and stage 2 LO?


Any APR dealer with a dyno on-site could do this back-to-back very easily. No need to push APR to do it...


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> We're in the process of getting a vehicle in house to look over everything. The last vehicle we had in house was unable to reproduce the misfires while logging, so it left with the normal file and he's only reported good things. That's not to say some others aren't, you included. I've listened to the feedback and I'm not pleased we have several unhappy customers, at all, and we're committed to making each of you happy.


That is good to hear. You guys have been pretty quiet lately and as you have probably noticed the lack of information has caused a bit of a stir around here. I haven't had any problems with the stage 2 LO file, but other than the great noise from the downpipe, it doesn't feel like I got any performance improvement from stage 1. So an in house comparison of the three tunes on the same dyno, same car, same day would answer a lot of questions. 



Marty said:


> Any APR dealer with a dyno on-site could do this back-to-back very easily. No need to push APR to do it...


Or APR can provide the most basic of information on their own product which we have paid money for. :banghead:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LynxFX said:


> Or APR can provide the most basic of information on their own product which we have paid money for. :banghead:


Sorry about that. We just haven't had another TTRS by the shop recently to test and we ran into scheduling conflicts with getting the previous car on the dyno for final numbers.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

if apr first came out with the LO file as standard and later added the more aggressive "misfiring" file as HI would there be any whiners... probably not


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

no, but people may have chosen a different stage 2 tune if the original stage 2 "LO" doesnt compare to what others are offering as stage 2.


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## tdi-bart (Feb 10, 2011)

for now others' stage2 powers is just hearsay...


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

there are multiple other tuners out there with stage 2 tunes that people can choose from. their dyno #s are no more or less accurate or trust worthy than APR's.


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## LynxFX (May 17, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry about that. We just haven't had another TTRS by the shop recently to test and we ran into scheduling conflicts with getting the previous car on the dyno for final numbers.


Thanks, hopefully you get one in soon. I don't want to change anything until we know what is what. There's been a lot of here-say thrown about from every direction so just want to cut through the bull****.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

lpriley32 said:


> no, but people may have chosen a different stage 2 tune if the original stage 2 "LO" doesnt compare to what others are offering as stage 2.


Honestly, that's yet to be seen.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

LynxFX said:


> Thanks, hopefully you get one in soon. I don't want to change anything until we know what is what. There's been a lot of here-say thrown about from every direction so just want to cut through the bull****.


I hear you on that and we do too.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Honestly, that's yet to be seen.


correct...and we are all patiently waiting.


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