# WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project



## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

I'm going to start here a list of the data needed, and I'll update it as I get info and need others:
*If you don't have a clue about what this is read the project description at the bottom*








24. Catalyst, Muffler(s) properties and dimensions, pipe in between
23. Exhaust manifold, treat each bent section separately, EXAMPLE: 1st-30mm diameter, 45deg bend, 300length; 2nd-30mm dia, 90deg, 500length; juction of 1 and 4 at 15deg; 3rd-50mm dia, 0deg bend, 400lenght, etc...
22. Intake and exhaust Cam profile (lift against cam or crank angle)
>21. Exhaust - 38mm round, area 11.34cm sq
Widens immediately to 2 valve tracts
Valve seat - 23.0mm
Turns 90deg from manifold face to valve seat
Manifold face to center of valve - 58.1mm
Distance between valve centers 36mm
Valve diameter 28 - Stem diameter 7
>20. Inlet - 30x50mm oval, area 13.07cm sq
Straight for ~50mm before splitting to 2 tracts
Valve seat - 26.5mm
Turns ~45deg from manifold face to valve seat
Manifold face to centre of valve - 91.5mm
Distance between valve centers 36mm
Valve diameter 32 - Stem diameter 7
>19. Runners' length 160mm straight, and bends before head 150 degree bend 240mm long,
>18. Runners' diameter 40/42/50, spacing 88 and distance from one end - zero from edge (or runner radius to centerline)
>17. Plenum chamber dimensions, 66 x 70 x 300 (mm) = 1.386L
>16. Intake manifold entrance diameter and length - same as diameter as butterfly and 15mm in
>15. Butterfly 2 diameter - 52mm, spindle 7.5mm, begins to open @ ~50% of throttle travel
>14. Butterfly 1 diameter - 35mm, spindle 9.8mm distance between butterfly centers 46mm
>13. Throttle body boot, left 62, right same as tb entrance, 90 degree bend, minimum outside length
>12. Zip tube, left 80, right 62, length 200
>11. Airflow meter opens from 80mm to 108mm, turns 90 deg to zip tube
>10. Position and internal Diameter of the air box exit (mm) 80 diameter, 80 from the sides, length 40 from the filter end, opens to the airflow meter (the meter plat is in on the 80mm section)
9. Pressure drop due to air filter (ex: pressure drop of 1.25kPa at a mass flow of 280kg/h)
>8. Average position of the filter in relation to one of the air box walls 4L under, 1,5L over
>7. Air box Volume (liters) (5.5L)
>6. Filter Area 280x160, work out air box depth(s) by volume
>5. Air box inlet (at center of face) left 41, right 58, length 180
>4. Firing order 1-3-4-2
>3. Con-rod lenght (in mm) 144
>2. Stroke (in mm) 86.4
>1. Bore (in millimeters) 81
How to deal with any duct ("pipe"):
A duct is always defined by a left and right diameters, and length. When a chance in diameter occurs a new duct has to be created. When a duct is bent we must have the bend angle and the duct length is always the largest length on the duct, ie. length of the outside of the duct.
Project Discription:
As a final project for my mechanical engineering degree I'm doing a model of a KR in Ricardo WAVE. Its a very nice software for modeling internal combustion engines. I find this project very attractive because I'm a proud golf mk1 owner







and the plan on my car is to get a KR in it and turbo charge it, as many have done before. I thought I could combine the two work and leisure in this project so... 
The idea is to take all the measurements from the standard KR engine and make a WAVE model of it, so the model represents truthfully the engine. This kind of program only deals with the air tract of the engine, aka from the air box to the exhaust pipe, and all in between. After the model is done we calibrate it to get the right figures and then change the model to accommodate a turbo. As you surely know many components will change, since the intake manifold to the exhaust etc etc, and with the model we can make so many variables change such as turbo specifications, inlet and exhaust manifolds' design, etc etc, to see which one is more advantageous for the costumer (us :smile need.
So for this first stage of the model building I need help from whoever has a KR, or access to it, and is keen to use a spanner and a vernier caliper to take some measurements. This list of things that are currently needed is above and I'll surely answer any question people ask me about the project and other stuff and I think in the end the whole community will benefit from it.
Thanks a lot guys

_Modified by Bandarra at 11:58 AM 11-4-2007_


_Modified by Bandarra at 5:56 AM 11-5-2007_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

good idea http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

curious to see the results of this


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Sounds like an interesting project







I have one KR in bits and two running so I can measure whatever you need http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Here's some bits for starters:
Valve stems - 7mm
Inlet valve - 32mm
Exhaust valve - 28mm
Firing order 1-3-4-2
Mikki x


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

Thank you VERY much Mikki, you have no idea of how precious this information is for me.
keep them comming if you can


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Right then! Some more stuff I can measure








Throttle body:
Butterfly 1 diameter - 35mm, spindle 9.8mm
Butterfly 2 diameter - 52mm, spindle 7.5mm
Butterfly 2 begins to open @ ~50% of throttle travel
Plenum: (these are approximate since I can't measure inside so inferred wall thickness)
Cross section - 66h x 70d
Width - 300
Volume - 1386cc
Runners: 
Diameter - 40, 42, 50mm depending on manifold version
Spacing - 88mm
Length - tricky since it's curved







I'll try this at the weekend.
Head ports:
Exhaust - 38mm round, area 11.34cm sq
Widens immediately to 2 valve tracts
Valve seat - 23.0mm
Turns 90deg from manifold face to valve seat
Manifold face to centre of valve - 58.1mm
Inlet - 30x50mm oval, area 13.07cm sq
Straight for ~50mm before splitting to 2 tracts
Valve seat - 26.5mm
Turns ~45deg from manifold face to valve seat
Manifold face to centre of valve - 91.5mm
What is #14 zip tube?
What is #16 inlet manifold diameter? The throttle body bolts straight to the manifold.
Is this program shareware or hideously expensive? If it's free / cheap I might have a go at this in parallel with you








*Edit* I just found the web site. It looks to be of the hideously expensive sort








I might play with a measuring jug and the airbox at the weekend








Mikki x


_Modified by MikkiJayne at 9:53 PM 10-24-2007_


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

Mikki, you have no idea how much you are helping me!




























many thanks!!!
About the program yes, it is very expensive really, we are thinking of moving to a lotus one that is very similar but not as expensive.
Thanks for all the details measuring and explaining and interest!








so lets see the critical areas:
- any curved pipe is defined like I said on the How to deal with ducts part, below the measurements list, should be difficult to measure it with a flexible measuring tape
-the zip tube is the tube that goes from the air box to the throttle body
-yes, the tb bolts straight on to the intake manif but it doesnt not have an oppening of the butterfly's diameter so there should be some lenght, at least the flange thickness that has the butterfly's diameter before entering the intake manifold
-I'm going to do some research and try to model the two butterflies as one equivalent. 
Once again, I'm very grateful and excited by your cooperation and the path this project is taking








Ps. i updated the list above and underlined little things that need checking, thanks










_Modified by Bandarra at 10:31 AM 10-25-2007_


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

No worries! it sounds like a great project and I'd love to see the outcome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
14 - The throttle body exit is a pair of tubes the same size as the butterfly openings. The distance from the spindle to mounting surface is 15mm.
Opening in the manifold is ovoid made of both butterfly diameters joined at the circumferences. Area is 50.9 sq cm. Length is only the gasket thickness - 1mm, then it is a smooth flow in to the plenum from the mounting surface.
19 & 18 - Inlet & Exhaust valve centres are both 36mm.
16 - Manifold runners are equally spaced with 0 distance from the ends of the plenum.
12 - Distance between butterfly centres is 46mm

_Quote, originally posted by *Bandarra* »_How to deal with any duct ("pipe"):
*A duct is always defined by a left and right diameters*, and length. When a chance in diameter occurs a new duct has to be created. When a duct is bent we must have the bend angle and the duct length is always the largest length on the duct, ie. length of the outside of the duct.


Most of this makes sense but I don't really understand the bold bit








Any ideas on how to measure the cam? Got a pair in the kitchen but I have no idea what to do with them











_Modified by MikkiJayne at 8:50 PM 10-25-2007_


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

What i mean by left and right diameter is as the program shows inlet and outlet diameters, ie the diameters at both ends of the duct. In a cylindric duct for instance, both diameters are the same, in a tapered duct they are different. Example: if you want to model a venturi in a tube you have to break down the venturi into four ducts: 1st both diameters are the same and some arbitrary length; 2nd (inlet cone) left diameter big, right small, some length; 3rd (outlet cone) left small, right big, some length; 4th same as 1st.
this should be something like it, just to show what info you need and how you break it down in this program...








about cam, i was thinking of it, and i think is pretty much unmeasurable lol, in an accurate way, I was hopping that some one would have it... but now that i think about it, if we know values like degrees at which it open and closes and max lift, if we then take that and take a good picture of the cam lobe and then do some photoshopping we could get a decent table of values







- this solution just occurred to me..
many thanks once again Mikki


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Ok makes sense now







Most of the 'ducts' are pretty much the same diameter all along so they should be pretty easy to measure.
I just realised you're in Sheffield lol! My good friend and master fabricator Andy, aka PoloV8, isn't far from there, I'm originally a Donny lass, and my office is in Leeds








We should definitely meet up next time I'm 'oop North'. It would be cool to see your model when its finished http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Good suggestions on the cam. I think I can figure the basics out with a protractor and vernier by putting it back in the head. Busy tomorrow but I should have some time at the weekend.
Mikki x


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

Where about are you now then? The meet would be really nice








I think due to Ricardo being gits we are swapping to a software that is pretty much the same but by lotus, i downloaded a freeware version of it (limited to single cylinder modeling) but very nice, you can too if you want







http://www.lesoft.co.uk/
I'm going to update the list now and start familiarizing myself with my new toy: LES, lol
Lotus Engine Simulator
cheers mikki
ps: just remembered, is the tb entrance aligned with the plenum chamber or at an angle?


_Modified by Bandarra at 4:26 PM 10-25-2007_


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Cool I'll have a play with that software at the weekend http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm in Exeter now having escaped from South Yorkshire 4 years ago (and not a moment too soon!). I go up to the office in Leeds every now and then tho so I'll pm you next time









The TB is at an angle on the manifold. I'd guess at 30 degrees from the inlet runners, so 60 degrees to the crank. That angle does make the plenum volume rather hard to measure exactly so I just worked out the rectangular volume instead.
Surprised no one else wants to play in this thread


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

Yeah, its true, the easy measurements to take are already in so its hard to stand up and measure bends on a exhaust manifold i guess...
Already did 4 models in the freeware version of the software, only single cylinder but i made a atmospheric 2v, 4v, turbo 2v and 4v, quite nice interface and results


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

^^ up for a nice project... lol








get those verniers out ppl, pleaseeeeee


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

where have you been Mikki


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Sorry busy with other stuff and the weather has been horrid! Plus I got a new TDI engine to play with








I do have a big pile of 16V bits in the shed though, so I'll get measuring tomorrow


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

Ok done some more measuring today








The intake runners are 400mm from the plenum, and turn through about 150 degrees as they go over the engine and in to the head. The length measurement is on the _outside_ of the runners. ID is 40mm.
The air filter area is 280mm x 160mm. 
The airbox volume is 4.0L for the lower part, and 1.5L for the upper, with the filter in between.
The airbox inlet is a tube 41mm dia opening to 58mm, length 180mm, with the opening in the centre of the airbox.
The airbox outlet (in to the airflow meter) is 80mm diameter 40mm from the end of the air filter, 80mm from the sides.
The airflow meter opens out to 108mm, turns through 90 degrees through a rubber boot in to the 'zip tube'
The zip tube starts as an oval, which is too hard to measure so I measured the equivalent circle instead which is 80mm. Its 200mm long, ending at 62mm. 
This goes in to the throttle body boot, which turns 90 degrees. Start is 62mm, end is the same area as the throttle body gasket.
I think thats about all I can do now. I know we're still missing the cam timing but that must be available somewhere. Have you looked in the 16V forum?
Oh, and the air filter pressure drop. I don't know of any way to measure that. Perhaps an air filter manufacturer could give you that?
Mikki x


_Modified by MikkiJayne at 6:26 PM 11-4-2007_


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

Once again... Mikki to the rescue!!!
THANKS A MILLION!!!











































Very good information this, I updated the head post and the things I quite didn't understand are now *bold*.
About cam timing, yes I think that probably its best to get that info from somewhere, probably some cam makers when they compare it with the stock ones. Don't bother trying to measure that








As far as I can see there is only left the bits after the head and then lets get building!
again, thank you very much!


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

19: straight length 160mm
13: throttle body boot - 0 length, just the radius of the turn
9: useful data here: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/...2.htm
22: cam specs here: http://membres.lycos.fr/philip...t.php
I'll have a look at the exhaust later next week. It's complicated and messy so might take a while to figure out.


_Modified by MikkiJayne at 9:55 PM 11-4-2007_


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

does that mean that the curved length is 400-160=240?
Thanks for the links, a lot of info in there


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Yes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

Do you want an engine to rebuild?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3527674








I have some spare pistons


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

why not?








just read you engine topic... terrible that


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

I talked to my project supervisor and he said it was ok








I mean, if you are selling it it would be difficult but if you don't find any other use to it you can donate it to the University of Sheffield







I would be happy to have a engine to work on and inspect closer and it sure would be good for new students as well coming over the years (we only have crappy ford, rover and vauxhall engines... oh yeah and that maseratti v8 bi-turbo)
Any way, only to said that it would be very good for this project and other in the future certainly.
About the software, its settled, we are going lotus...


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

I meant for your mk1 16V turbo build, not for the university! But hey if thats helpful then you're welcome to it








The dead engine is pretty worn, and would need a rebore to be reused, but I do have another complete engine, and a spare block.
Also the complete k-jet system and wiring.
Only problem is getting them to you, as its tricky to fit engines in the Corrado


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

I also have a spare bottom end here in England, but I don't know if I mentioned but my car is in Portugal







so it would be hard to get the engine there... lol
Also I already have one KR there, but I'm waiting for funds which will lead to parts and that in it's turn will lead to an engine rebuild and fitting to the car







(still deciding which kind of pistons to fit to the engine)
At the moment all the money is being sucked by the body shop guy as it is there for a full rust removal and painting.
As for the engine, yes I think it would be useful for the project and for other students but I don't want to be taking anything away from you, only if you're ok with it...








I'm going for megasquirt and of course all the k-jet will be gone, but I'm not so sure about the wiring... and maybe it would be useful for me to take some ideas and notions for my own project and for other students in the future if they want to rig the engine to one of the test cells in the workshop...
I'd quite like to do that myself just for the fun of it, but as my tutor said, that is enough material for a whole new project just on it's own...


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Almost forgot, I need to start searching/collecting validating data from the engine, ie. power/torque curves, from a rolling road or test bench (not probable to be lying around) and any other engine running data that I can use to calibrate/validate my model with (exhaust temperatures etc...)
Please have in mind that this is for as much as possible a fully stock 1.8 16v KR engine
Cheers lads


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Need, some input ppl! mainly in the exhaust manifold area plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Sorry been busy putting my TDI in
















Test drive tomorrow hopefully








Then I can measure the manifold for you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Mikki x


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (MikkiJayne)*

OMG!






















I didn't know you had tackled it so fast! its DONE!?! lol, way to go!


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

Yesterday I made a big part of the general KR model. Basically all the model was done and the bit that is missing (exhaust side) was made up. Just invented a 4-2-1 manifold with some typical dimensions...
Was good enough to run the model and see that it is not very far off. I'm getting [email protected] and I should be getting exactly 100kW(136hp)@6300. I still need all the exhaust modeled propperly and some other general tweeking, but as a first approximation first attempt is looks really good.
Thanks to everyone that has helped and I hope I can get all the exhaust data soon.
Andre


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

C'mon guys, its not that hard to get the measuring tape out and check a kr's exhaust is it?








I just need this final bit to complete my final general model and to calibrate it... plz help...


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: WAVE model of a 1.8 KR engine - Final year Project (Bandarra)*

HELP... anyone















mikkiiiiiii


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## leeG (Dec 15, 2001)

I can help. PM sent
Lee


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (leeG)*

still waiting for a helpful soul...


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (Bandarra)*

C'mon guys, its not that hard... I just need some simple measurements of the exhaust side to complete my model :S


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: (Bandarra)*

Hi I'm back!







Since I was out on the drive today I pulled a manifold and got some measurements:
Exhaust ports - 38mm diameter
Downpipe ports - 2 x 43mm
Cylinders matched - 1 & 4, 2 & 3
Downpipe is ~80 deg from the head
Cylinder 1: 45mm straight, 45 deg bend, 150mm straight, 60 deg bend
Cylinder 2: 35mm straight, 60 deg bend, 110mm straight, 75 deg bend
Cylinder 3: 30deg bend, 150mm straight, 50 deg bend 
Cylinder 4: 45mm straight, 45 deg bend, 90mm straight, 45 deg bend
Bear in mind that most of the ports rotate in the bends to meet the downpipe flange, which is in line with cyl 3.
Here's a pic for reference.








Its obviously upside down, so cyl 1 is on the right.
Mikki x


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (MikkiJayne)*

again saving the day mikki!!!!
one step closer!








the rest of the exhaust system should be pretty straight forward now right?


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*Re: (Bandarra)*

How much of the rest of the exhaust do you need? I can measure a downpipe tomorrow, but thats all I have...


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (MikkiJayne)*

the more info i have till the very tip of the exhaust pipe at the back of the car the better the model will be... but since we cant have everything ill use what i can get


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (Bandarra)*

up for the downpipes!


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (Bandarra)*

i still need some info on the cat or if thats too difficult, at least the overall lenght and diameter of the exhaust after the manifold and the silencer box.
come on guys (girl)


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (Bandarra)*









this is (more or less definitely) the final general model, which represents a KR
















and the power/torque curves. A few dyno tests of people who have a standard KR would be much appreciated to check these results.


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## Bandarra (Oct 23, 2007)

*Re: (Bandarra)*

Well, this one is done! lets see what kind of grade I get out of it








to people interested that said it was an interesting project here's the pdf


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## fourmotioneer (May 15, 2009)

*Wave model of JH engine*

Anybody have dimensions for a JH??


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