# Just bought my phaeton



## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Hello all. Just bought a W12 2004 phaeton. I am excited but somewhat scared after reading posts for three weeks.it is black with sonnen beige interior. Will pick it up in three weeks. I hope it as great as I hope. It has issues- TPMS monitors all need replaced and controller needs replaced, back shade not raising, hydraulic trunk hinges need replaced and right passenger suspension level needs replaced. At least according to used car inspection that was performed. I will keep reading and see what work I can do myself. Thanks to everyone who has posted and shared information.


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Congratulations!
I also have a black one with Sonnen Beige interior. Is yours a 4-seater?
I had a dickens of a time with my TPMS. I had all of the sensors replaced, and still no luck. What it was is the grey controller in the trunk above the LH battery. It was fault, so I got a new one. It has worked fine since. I hope that this was helpful to you.
Congrats!

-John


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Thanks for the info. Are the Phaetons as finicky as they sound?


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

On the surface, they seem like a pain. But they are actually not. I don't mind mine at all. As long as you don't take off your seat belt while driving (this causes an airbag fault), or other silly things, you're fine.
Just make sure that you read the manual completely. You'll be surprised.
May I ask what is wrong with the trunk hinges?

-John


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Mine is a 5 sweater. The mechanic who did the used car inspection said the pneumatic hinges were no longer working because the trunk lid won't stay open.


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Seater.


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Oh, okay. That's a bummer that they are needed to be replaced. How many miles are on the Phaeton? 
Be sure to post pics of the Phaeton! (I use Photobucket) I'm not sure why they won't work, maybe a lack of fluid? Does the lid open fine, but not stay open, or do you have to manually open it?

-John


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Barbara27 said:


> Thanks for the info. Are the Phaetons as finicky as they sound?


I guess, yes and no. Basic reliability is pretty good as far as I can tell... but a lot of the convenience electronics were moderately advanced in 2004... and are now 11 years old.. so some gremlins are not unexpected. Ironically my 10 year old V10 seems to becoming more reliable... 

Certainly there is much wisdom on this forum.

good luck and happy motoring.

Regards

M


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## jac1d (Oct 18, 2014)

Overall the cars are known to be reliable and certainly enjoyable.

TPMS seems to be a constant issue.

It is possible with a laptop and the VCDS cable and software to code the TPMS off. I've never had TPMS in prior vehicles and decided to code it off instead of spendfing $500 and risking it happening again. The forum has lots of examples of people who get it working only to have it go out again, I'm afraid.

Steve asked me to post my coding checklist of the things we did to my car when I got it a few months ago. Been super busy at work but will post it up. Turning off some of the buzzer annoyances greatly improved my satisfaction with the car and it only took seconds.

Welcome to the club.

-Jeff


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

TPMS is only really an issue because it's difficult to know for sure if the sensor batteries are low (which is almost always the problem) or the controller is bad (the original controllers tend to fail early, the later ones seem fine). My TPMS has worked perfectly since I had a new controller installed about 4 years ago.


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

Congratulations Barbara, you're in the right place for any question or advice. I would invest in a VCSD for regular scans at home. I'm sure you're going to enjoy your car like all of us do.

Regards,

Salah


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

Good Choice, Barbara27!

I can agree with all said here and add that the performance drop with the years is remarkably low. After driving a 2004 years model for more than a year and 50 000 km with 150 000 km on the clock it matches VWs claims, and that is with the LWB with extra weight! Spot on 6 s to 100 km/h!









I cannot resist posting travelling above speed limiter speed
My apologies for the music, but thats only to make Richard Hammond happy





/Lennart


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

*scared newb..*

Hi , just bought an 04 phaeton 5 days ago..1000 miles ago..car runs n drives brilliantly..windows just started having issues..like almost at the same time..hear like a crunching and i have to assist them up..front psngr is the only one not doing it..and i have been searching n googling n some finds are scaring me..lol..has the 4.2 , 110k miles looks new in n out..just went on a 600 mile round trip on highway and freeways..only issue b4 the windows was a level systen fault workshop warning..guess i cant adjust ride height..i can live with that..adjustable suspension modes still work..i was told i should do timing chain/belt if not already..it was a 1 owner and has service records for some things and it shows at 100k he was told it should be done..dealership says they think he had it done but not at their place..anyway..it seems smooth as silk..quick..fun..need to study it more..i dont like the traction control..deep snow and traction control are not friends..anyways..i paid 5800 and it looks n runs great..should i be afraid of this?..taking ito mardi gras in 2 weeks from northern michigan..just got an oil change today..80 bux..went to a vw dealership because car is "different"..last week my pride n joy was taken off the road forever by a faulty new bosch alternator..is a subaru SVX..bad internal regulator caused an over charge that destroyed the fuse block..harness, ecu, etc etc..so yeah , i like "different" cars..lol...i just hope this lasts a couple yrs..its a lot of car for 5800 out the door , having a blast driving it


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

http://www.jackssalesandservice.com/mobile/mImagesAll.aspx?cmb=0|250985243|328707 .. pics of my car from the place i bought it..a friend owns the lot..cant figure out how to add my personal pics..i only have a phone for internet right now..lol


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If you search for window regulator, you'll get chapter and verse on repairing your window problem. Getting it done at a dealer is expensive, I think around $900 per side. The repair involves removing the interior door panel, removing the aluminium panel underneath, then either replacing the small plastic wheel that breaks, or replacing the whole regulator mechanism.

Level fault workshop might be one of the level sensors. Again, a forum search will turn up instructions. They do sometimes need lubrication. Be aware, though, that there's also the possibility that it's an air leak in a strut (expensive).

Timing belt is due at 80k or between 5 and 8 years, depending on who you believe. It's an interference engine, so if the belt fails your engine is toast. Getting it replaced runs around $2000 at a dealer.

You might also want to check those aftermarket wheels. Chances are they don't have sufficient load rating for the car (check the tyres, too, they should have a load rating of 103).


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## Sir Brian Middleton (Aug 20, 2011)

*Boot hinges*

Hi, Unlikely they have failed mechanically. Too well engineered. I had boot closure issues in my 06 V10. Then replaced both batteries (in the right procedure). Got a complete VAG scan and fault clearance. Boot works perfectly - even if some heathen visitor tries to close it manually, you just reopen fully on the key or vw symbol then close via the button. Do you have other electronic glitches? This car is too clever and it will try and deal with two duff batteries by switching power etc for months. Get them tested, replace with the Varta originals and all will be comfort and joy all over the car. These cars are living beings, the batteries are the heart!


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

Hi..thanx for all the info on my spaceship..i had the oil change done at a VW dealership..service tech for the quick change was an attractive gal ..it came to like 116 but she gave it to me for 90 n she also gave me a free coupon for car wash n vacuum ..Very friendly..the actual service guy seemed clueless on the other side of the garage where people come for repairs..today i drove to a shop in town that had VW/AUDI on their sign ..smaller shop..seemed enthused about my rare bird..didnt give me that you are an idiot for buying this car type of vibe..lol..had good things to say about it and said my 4.2 is probably the best motor made in his opinion..i basically just introduced myself n the car..didnt make an appt , told him id call...
I believe there may be truth to the volts system..weird things happen n fix themselves when i restart..like abs did once n traction has a couple times..volt gauge stays at 14 even at idle in gear with lights,radio heater n defrost..hasnt been above 20f degrees out since i bought it a wk ago today..half these days have been single digits to below zeroF.1300 miles already..runs,drives brilliantly..n with the susp turned to full sport it feels like a nimble sports car..i have been nice to it..use cruise at 5 over everywhere..windows are being weird n i only use the front psngr window now.. , system level fault n "tyre"system fault chime in at start up..things i can live with..ride height adjust would be nice if it was a cheap fix..had a land rover for 8 yrs ..a couple cars ago..and the ride height never worked on it n was refitted with coils..i lived with it..lol..was a great truck..in 11 days we are off for 20 hr drive to new orleans for my first mardi gras.
Im hoping its mechanicals wont fail me..doesnt make a noise or do anything alarming while driving..i assume it still drives as it did 80k dollars ago..lol..i live modest and this car cost more than my home new..im worried i got myself into something i may struggle to afford to maintain..as long as its mechanically reliable i can fix lil things along the way..i appreciate your guidance along my new automotive chapter


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The level fault probably isn't something you want to ignore.....


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

*2004 W12 finally home*

Finally brought my 2004 W12 Phaeton home. Not perfect, but still happy with performance. First off... The trunk hinge has a broken piece that will definitely need to be replaced. Yes, TPMS is not functioning correctly, but I will check through everthing that has been discussed here before the purchase of 5 new sensors. There is a shudder when accelerating at certain speeds, not sure if it is a engine problem or needs balancing. Hopefully the closest VW dealer will be a help. When I get it cleaned up from its 750 mile road trip I will post a picture. Thanks for the input, Barbara27


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*Shudder*

Barbara27,

Does the car hard shift on downshifts? Tach "Hunt" under low load above 3rd gear?
You have a different transmission than I do, but the transmission fluid does go bad and can cause a shudder. Can also cause hard shifts at 1 and 2 on the way down. 

The cars are also heavy and remarkably sensitive to alignment and wheel balance. That can cause a shudder. Is there any uneven tire wear?

Engine speed or vehicle speed for the shudder?

Enjoy the car. They are awesome. 

-BD


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Seems to shudder at higher speeds. Smoother roads seem to help. I am not a gear head but am willing to get there. Hopefully, will be able to get her into a dealer who can help restore her ride. I would like to have the VAG/COM run to diagnose all issues and understand what they are.


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

I made an error and assumed the dealer had checked the tire pressure. When I measured the pressure tonight after I got home, the pressure varied from 48 to 41.5. The max pressure on the tire was 44 psi. In the morning I will check the spare pressure.


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Barbara27,

Be sure to check the tire pressures on the door frame, and get them exact! The car won't like it when there is a 1.5 PSI pressure difference on one axle.

-John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The absolute pressures don't matter, but side-to-side differential does. I run mine at 36/34 without any TPMS problems.


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## PolluxTroy (Feb 11, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> The absolute pressures don't matter, but side-to-side differential does. I run mine at 36/34 without any TPMS problems.


36 front 34 rear?


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

invisiblewave said:


> The absolute pressures don't matter, but side-to-side differential does. I run mine at 36/34 without any TPMS problems.


Yeah, that's what I meant. I follow the sticker, just 4 PSI lower, because what the sticker says for cold PSI is the tire's max pressure cold as well. When I had my TPMS Fault, it was the controller in the batter compartment (whitish in colour)

-John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

PolluxTroy said:


> 36 front 34 rear?


Yes, the correct pressures for an unloaded vehicle. The sticker on the NA cars shows the maximum pressure, for legal reasons. I'm getting a much lower, more even wear rate at the lower pressures, as well as a better ride.


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## PolluxTroy (Feb 11, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> Yes, the correct pressures for an unloaded vehicle. The sticker on the NA cars shows the maximum pressure, for legal reasons. I'm getting a much lower, more even wear rate at the lower pressures, as well as a better ride.


Sweet, good to know.. Just scooped an 04 V8, but it has aftermarket wheels and low profile tires, would you still recommend similar given that setup?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Depends on the rims & profile. First thing I'd do would be to check the load rating on both the rims & the tyres. For 255/40 R19, the factory specification for a lightly-loaded V8 is 39/36 with a tyre load rating of 100Y.


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## entwisi (Feb 19, 2013)

Barbara, there weere some hinges on the polish equivilant of ebay a couple of weeks ago if you are struggling to find any locally, http://allegro.pl if you use chrome with translate turned on I find it OK to browse. Most Polish also speak a little English so when you need to contact them they shoudl be able to understand your Questions etc

e.g. http://allegro.pl/zawias-klapy-pt-vw-phaeton-i5030496025.html 


Ian


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I looked at it and it is the right hinge. Unfortunately I need the left hinge. I think I will call salvage yards and look there. I had not thought about that till I saw that hinge.


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

*so far so good *

Just returned from a 3000 mile round trip to new orleans for mardi gras. What a brilliant car for such a journey. During the trip i realized my leveling thing DOES work..i was just impatient ..lol..also found a few more options n functions , like the retractable rear sunshade ..lol..when we started the trip the pasngr wiper was in-op, when i returned they are now both in-op..dont know the issue there..hopefully a fuse ?..windows are still an issue..they all need help up except the psngr front n sunroof..so they got used a lot..lol..all in all a good drive , car returned running the same as it left..oil level unchanged from a fresh change prior to the trip


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The wiper motors are prone to failure due to corrosion build-up inside the motor mechanism. It's possible to dismantle them and clean them up, but requires the removal of the panel along the bottom part of the windshield, which carries a risk of breaking the glass. There's a thread on it with pictures somewhere. For the windows, you'd probably be well-advised to try not to use them until you've fixed the mechanism. Eventually it'll fail completely and you might not be able to get the glass back up. That's also fixable.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

invisiblewave said:


> The wiper motors are prone to failure due to corrosion build-up inside the motor mechanism.




Right sentiment, wrong facts- the motors do not fail or corrode, it is the linkage that the motors move that seize and cause the motor to draw amperage and pop the fuse. The linkage can be freed up and lubed - or replaced. The motors will be fine.





invisiblewave said:


> For the windows, you'd probably be well-advised to try not to use them until you've fixed the mechanism. Eventually it'll fail completely and you might not be able to get the glass back up. That's also fixable.





This one you are 100% spot on. The plastic pulley wheels break and you don't want to be stuck with a window that won't rise. Part is about $200 new, + labor from a dealer or fix it yourself for a couple dollars if you are handy. It is just a simple plastic roller... not hard to do, but falls under the category of 'if you have to ask'...


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

Just reading through and i see a mention of a shudder and a slightly fluctuating tach at certain speeds..shudder goes away under harder driving..seems to be there mostly at 60mph..been sortve afraid to mention it because its slight but worrisome ..as i drive n daydream i have been thinking a good synthetic ATF in the trans n diffs would smooth things out..i DID go as far as to look at a couple trannies on ebay..about a grand or so..no clue what labor would be..but it seems solid , just a few things once in a while that make me go "oh **** why did it do that?" ..lol..what trans fluid n diff fluids? ..fluids are a thing i dont cut corners on..my subaru SVX has amsoil ATF and royal purple in the diffs n royal purple motor oil in the engine..my 1st oil change with the phaeton i went to an audi /vw dealership..i used castrol synthetic because they told me thats what it calls for..not usually my first choice..whats the best for these 4.2's? .modul or..?.i like royal purple..use it in my atv's and subie n boat..but im a VW virgin and need some reeducation of sorts..ty


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

You need to read the various transmission threads. There's a _very_ specific fluid specification for your trransmission. Labor at a dealer for a tranny swap is about $2k. A remanufactured VW transmission costs about $4500 plus fitting. There's a decent chance, though, that a new valve body and fluid will solve your problem.


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## 29_MALE_SOCAL_SPICY (Jun 16, 2008)

PowerDubs said:


> Right sentiment, wrong facts- the motors do not fail or corrode, it is the linkage that the motors move that seize and cause the motor to draw amperage and pop the fuse. The linkage can be freed up and lubed - or replaced. The motors will be fine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Josh,
You can a p/n or pics of this window roller? I need to replace mine.


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Castrol synthetic meeting VW spec and nothing else!*

This engine, like all modern VW engines, requires Castrol Synthetic: keep in mind that the actual marketing name has changed over the past two years, it's now Castrol Edge if I remember correctly. Also, there are two version, with slightly different grade range, only one of which meets VW spec (401 if I remember correctly), so check the back of the bottle and choose appropriately. It's a little pricey but well worth it and specifically required by VW. I have used it from new on my Phaeton with no detectable wear after 9 1/2 years and 75kmiles according to the chemical analysis from Blackstone Labs. You can find it at Autozone and other parts chains.
Stefano


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

Cool..thanx for the info..yeah i have been reading through many threads on trannies here..some cars the more ya find out the more worried you get..im finding things about the car that are easing my paranoia..lol..seeing many convos about the lifegaurd and a flash that fixes my slight trans imperfections almost every time and is very common.most the time the flash isnt needed.i see this can be way more expensive than i thought with a flash..seems silly for plugging something in n hitting a few keys..should be free with a flush n fill.. i used castrol last engine oil change as it was at a dealership and thats what it called for..so i guess i will do it again..i just changed my oil a month ago and my 5k miles is almost up already..under 100 miles left..lol...so i shouldnt bother with aftermarket engine oils , like amsoil or royal purple..mobile1 ..?? ..how much should i expect to pay for a trans flush n filter n fill from an honest shop?..without a "flash"


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If you put the newer transmission fluid in, you _have_ to flash too. I had two quotes from dealers, one for $400, one for $800. As regards engine oil, it doesn't have to be Castrol. Blauparts sell a kit with the filter & 10 litres of synthetic Ravenol oil which meets the VW spec for about $80.


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Invisiblewave,

How often do you recommend doing a tranny oil change? AND, how often for the brake fluid?

-John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't have any personal recommendations, but from the forum posts I know ZF recommend around 80k (miles) for transmission fluid. For brakes, mine wasn't changed until about 80k, but I think the usual recommendation is every other year.


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

phaetonjohn said:


> Invisiblewave,
> 
> How often do you recommend doing a tranny oil change? AND, how often for the brake fluid?
> 
> -John


With synthetics i do my engine every 5000 miles


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Okay, thanks. I'll have to change my tranny oil then.

-John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

hoam skooled said:


> With synthetics i do my engine every 5000 miles


I don't recall a single forum post reporting problems due to engine wear. The recommended 10k oil change is sufficient, imo. I know the top half of my engine still looked brand new at 80k when the chain tensioner was changed.


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## AdW14 (Jan 24, 2014)

Ours had a shimmy between 55 and 60. It was after the wheel came off and it was repaired. We took it back to them twice and they said it was tire balance. They rebalanced them to no avail. I talked our insurance into paying for vw to check it. They did a balance test on their machine that simulates road fonce and determined one tire somehow failed inside and said they were not able to balance them. We will be getting new tires this fall...so we just live with it. Luckily it smooths out a little above 60.
good luck with your new p. They are awesome cars.


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

My little shudder n hunting tach go away if i am above 60 mph or not driving economically ..lol..it's barely noticeable but i think new fluid n a flash should ease my mind..it really is a wonderful car..im just shocked all the options n gadgets still work..seems like a new car..not without quirks..windows bind n have a mind of their own..cept psngr window n moon roof work fine..and wipers stopped working..psngr 1st then drivers side during freezing rain n they were stuck to the window..rain x works for now..lol..hasnt used a drop of fluids between oil changes , including a 3k mile drive from northern michigan to new orleans..great bang for the buck..feel bad for the person that paid the sticker , but its nice to have that guys leftovers ..lol..im not proud


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## AdW14 (Jan 24, 2014)

I hear ya. We got oursrelatively cheap and its still like new. We have had to fix a few things. One being the wipers. We got replacements off ebay. It was the inkage froze up. Anther time it ran like crap and would die...come to find out the mass air flow sensors just needed cleaned...so keep that in mind if yours acts up all of a sudden. It was like 6 bucks for a big can of maf cleaner at napa. Oh yeah i almost forgot. Be careful with replacing the wiper linkages. The guy we got ours from broke the windshield when he tried. It was over 800 bucks for replacement. Its good to see another girl in here.


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## 4tune8tdi (Jan 25, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> I don't have any personal recommendations, but from the forum posts I know ZF recommend around 80k (miles) for transmission fluid. For brakes, mine wasn't changed until about 80k, but I think the usual recommendation is every other year.


Since you are new here (I am old inactive but recently returning member, so now classified as NooB!), may I give advice and PLEASE do topic searches to get CORRECT information RATHER THAN POST AND GET OPINIONS. The Phaeton in general and W12 engine/ZF transmission are HIGHLY ADVANCED entities. Wrong advice taken can be devastating! 

Any discussions of "engine oil" get crazy, quick, on ALL vehicle forums, but here goes anyway! For the record, any BRAND of the PROPER OIL can be used, most US dealers used 505.01 specification Castrol because it was easily obtained. Many Canadian dealers and Europeans prefer (myself included) "Motul Specific(that's the actual name) 505.01". The 505.01 spec was probably updated later, but bottom line if it says 505.01, you are good to go. BTW, they are not synthetics, they are Semi-synthetics (and that is NOT the same as "synthetic blend", like you will find in an auto parts store). Gets kind of complicated, doesn't it? Other brands you may find would be Total, Repsol, etc. Someone will probably chime in "I used Mobil 1" or "I only use Amsoil in all my cars, they are best." My answer to that is "NOPEY"! You can get the right stuff by mailorder, I think Performanceoil(s) dot com or something like that or elsewhere, takes 12.5 quarts on the W12 cars.

Regarding INCORRECT tranny service cycle information posted above, the ORIGINAL 2004 manual said "lifetime fluid, no service required". Later VW sent letters to all owners telling them to PUT CORRECTED INFORMATION IN THEIR OWNER'S MANUALS, SERVICE EVERY 20k MILES (much more frequently than you were wrongly advised above). Big change from "lifetime" to "every 20k", right?!? That's right, we W12 owners properly maintaining our cars change the fluid every 20k (expensive at dealer, less so DIY). 

Regarding brake PADS, front and rear pads have wear indicators and will indicate (usually) on instrument cluster when they need to be replaced. Proper service recommends changing brake FLUID every 2 years, also expensive, DIY possible but not easy to do correctly because of ABS. Also not cheap from dealer. Bottom line, these cars are beautiful, wonderful and "all that", and if PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE is performed, will live long and be happy. But drive the wheels off of it like a Toyota and only fix something when it breaks....oh mercy me, have pity on my soul! 

OK, free advice this go round, but search read search read search read ..... THEN ask specific Q's to clarify what you read, or beware the "answers" .... Welcome aboard! Bruce


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

4tune8tdi said:


> Regarding INCORRECT tranny service cycle information posted above, the ORIGINAL 2004 manual said "lifetime fluid, no service required". Later VW sent letters to all owners telling them to PUT CORRECTED INFORMATION IN THEIR OWNER'S MANUALS, SERVICE EVERY 20k MILES (much more frequently than you were wrongly advised above). Big change from "lifetime" to "every 20k", right?!? That's right, we W12 owners properly maintaining our cars change the fluid every 20k (expensive at dealer, less so DIY).
> 
> Regarding brake PADS, front ones have wear indicators and will indicate (usually) on instrument cluster when they need to be replaced. Rear brakes no sensors, check at wheel rotations or service, and/or listen for noises. Proper service recommends changing brake FLUID every 2 years, also expensive, DIY possible but not easy to do correctly because of ABS. Also not cheap from dealer. Bottom line, these cars are beautiful, wonderful and "all that", and if PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE is performed, will live long and be happy. But drive the wheels off of it like a Toyota and only fix something when it breaks....oh mercy me, have pity on my soul!


Speaking of incorrect advice.... The 20k fluid change applies only to the W12, the person I was replying to has the V8 with the 6 speed 'box. Your information on the rear brakes is also incorrect, rears also have wear indicators.


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

I read the 'noobs' response, smelled the air of it, and thought- must be another engineer. Scrolled down and saw the name Bruce and chuckled to myself.


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## 4tune8tdi (Jan 25, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> Speaking of incorrect advice.... The 20k fluid change applies only to the W12, the person I was replying to has the V8 with the 6 speed 'box. Your information on the rear brakes is also incorrect, rears also have wear indicators.


To use the vernacular of young punks from about 10 years ago, "my bad" regarding the rear brakes. They DO INDEED have wear SENSORS (not indicators), very sorry. Post has been edited and corrected.

I will stand by the tranny advice, as the person who STARTED this post, Barbara27, owns a W12 like me and was asking about proper transmission maintenance on HER newly acquired car, not someone else's V8 car (although personally I would change those about every 30k or so, any ZF unit really, I was one of the first to discover, because I had put miles on the car very quickly, a similar maintenance schedule flaw in the '04-'05 PD Tdi's where hundreds of owners later developed TC problems, tranny problems, and tons of not reimbursed high-dollar maintenance expenses). 

Regarding my motor oil advice, I'm sure someone will point out a nuanced error or two. But the main advise is spot on. Surprised an Amsoil guy hasn't piped up yet!

If any wording in my response was deemed offensive in any way, my humble apology. Thanks for the correction about the brakes, respectfully, Bruce


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## 4tune8tdi (Jan 25, 2015)

PowerDubs said:


> I read the 'noobs' response, smelled the air of it, and thought- must be another engineer. Scrolled down and saw the name Bruce and chuckled to myself.


Nope, different Bruce! 

Play nice, or I'll take Michael's car to the drag-strip instead of the VW shows! :laugh:

I explained my non-noobiness on another thread you had replied to, but get your digs in early and often if you must! If your sniffer is working good, you will have smelled the foul advice earlier in this thread, which most certainly was ill advised. The brake issue was a minor side note to Barbara27's main questions.

Be cool and give me a reason to hang around!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Amsoil might as well be called snake oil. Especially with their pyramid marketing scheme.

If you want a premium oil- purchase Redline.

The rear brakes on a U.S. Market car do NOT need vagcom or otherwise to change. They are old fashioned mechanical brakes. No electric parking brake.

Wrong info indeed Bruce!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

4tune8tdi said:


> Nope, different Bruce!
> 
> Play nice, or I'll take Michael's car to the drag-strip instead of the VW shows! :laugh:



I 100% would prefer you take Michaels car to a drag strip VS it sitting in a garage unused.

My W12 has been to a dragstrip, and an airstrip. It is currently at my buddies shop getting tuned, and he just bought a dyno so hopefully documented results.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

4tune8tdi said:


> To use the vernacular of young punks from about 10 years ago, "my bad" regarding the rear brakes. They DO INDEED have wear SENSORS (not indicators), very sorry. Also to the original poster/new owner of a Phaeton Barbara27, if you ever need to replace the rear brakes, take to dealer or an independent shop with Vagcom or VAS equipment, as the emergency brakes have to be disabled with the proper equipment to change the pads. The local quickie brake shop will pull out their hair and perhaps even cause damage trying to make the repair, just food for thought.
> 
> I will stand by the tranny advice, as the person who STARTED this post, Barbara27, owns a W12 like me and was asking about proper transmission maintenance on HER newly acquired car, not someone else's V8 car (although personally I would change those about every 30k or so, any ZF unit really, I was one of the first to discover, because I had put miles on the car very quickly, a similar maintenance schedule flaw in the '04-'05 PD Tdi's where hundreds of owners later developed TC problems, tranny problems, and tons of not reimbursed high-dollar maintenance expenses).
> 
> ...


Barbara hasn't posted on this thread for about a month. My answer was to a direct question about a V8 transmission. _You_ might choose to spend between $400 & $800 on a fluid change every 30k, but it's an unnecessary expense.

And you're wrong again about the rear brakes, time to stop digging! All the brakes are pretty simple to change, no VCDS required. The parking brake is automatic, the only minor complication related to it is the requirement to rotate the pistons on the rear brakes as you retract them, which is done with a simple mechanical tool that costs about $25 on Ebay.


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## 4tune8tdi (Jan 25, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> Barbara hasn't posted on this thread for about a month. My answer was to a direct question about a V8 transmission. _You_ might choose to spend between $400 & $800 on a fluid change every 30k, but it's an unnecessary expense.
> 
> And you're wrong again about the rear brakes, time to stop digging! All the brakes are pretty simple to change, no VCDS required. The parking brake is automatic, the only minor complication related to it is the requirement to rotate the pistons on the rear brakes as you retract them, which is done with a simple mechanical tool that costs about $25 on Ebay.


Absolutely correct you are, oh humble leader! I have edited and corrected my posts. I was thinking about the brakes on my buddies Audi A8 by mistake, one thousand pardons, I bow repeatedly as I back out the door (mostly to avoid the daggers!). About ZF fluid changes, been there, done that, and to each their own....I'll do mine for about $150 and call it insurance. Automobile insurance is also an absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary expense...until you need it! I will now go out in the garage, sit in the Phaeton, turn on the projector and look for your you-tube Phaeton drag-strip videos, and watch them "drive-in theater" style! Just for conversation, I would mention more Phaeton trivial statistics about how many speakers and how many watts for the amp, but would probably get that wrong too. Early dementia is a terrible thing to waste, hence my "sharing" with you!!! :heart:

Until next time, adios, au revoir, Auf Wiedersehen!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Ok, well let us know where you get the ATF for that price!


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

4tune8tdi said:


> I will now go out in the garage, sit in the Phaeton, turn on the projector and look for your you-tube Phaeton drag-strip videos, .......trivial statistics about how many speakers and how many watts for the amp, but would probably get that wrong too.




Here you go on both-


Stereo info- http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5914739-Standard-VS-Premium-stereo-info



and for fun-


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## 4tune8tdi (Jan 25, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> Ok, well let us know where you get the ATF for that price!


5-liter jug delivered to the door for $56 times 2 equals $112, and $20-30 for complete filter kit, sourcing is no big secret! Looks like I slightly overestimated the cost, I was just guessing when I posted the helpful comment. I use the ATF cooler flush technique, and changing 10 liters per 20k miles is plenty good enough for me, you don't have to flush every drop if you are doing this proper preventive maintenance procedure. This "insurance" surely is much better than the transmission replacement costs mentioned by a knowledgeable forum member  earlier in this thread! Good and smart insurance indeed, says the not a noob or semi-noob, semi-noob! Glad to help newer VW group and specifically Phaeton owners. Words to live by .... read, research, think, LIVE!!!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Do you have a link to it? For that price I might do mine every 20k.


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## 4tune8tdi (Jan 25, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> Do you have a link to it? For that price I might do mine every 20k.


Sure, no problem, glad to help. Just search "vw w12 transmission" on eBay for your options. It is Pentosin ATF1. My research and local VW specialist say it is fully compatible, but full and complete flush required first time (no mixing of fluids) along with adaptation, see forum if necessary, but you probably already know the procedure. If you feel that something is goofy about this, I would appreciate the feedback, Thanks!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Unless it's recommended by ZF, I personally wouldn't use it, but I wish you good luck!


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## 4tune8tdi (Jan 25, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> Unless it's recommended by ZF, I personally wouldn't use it, but I wish you good luck!


Yeah, I did tons of research a decade ago when I "discovered" (because I used the car in Rural Mail service in the mountains @ 40k miles/year) the '04-'05 PD Tdi Passat TC issue and the particular ZF 4 speed that was used in those cars had, at that time, more stringent fluid specs. Not so much for the 5H24(A) units used in tons of Euro cars. ZF says any Dexron III meeting standard Esso LT71141 is ok, but then there is an additional "standard" with fluids meeting 11A being for light service, and 11B being for heavy service. Many fluids (even some red colored ones at the autopartsstore) meet LT71141, but I myself would never use any bearing the LT71141 spec alone. Many other brands meet either 11A or 11B on top of LT71141, and those are the ones we want to use. Pentosin ATF1 meets 11B severe service, and I believe but will not state as fact here that Pentosin manufactures the VW and Audi branded fluids (although it may be Castrol or someone else, but not really important here). Other companies make fluids meeting 11B, including Redline, Royal Purple, Ravenol and many others. If you dig real deep in research, you find that there are only 2 base stock sources (tanker full quantities!), "Burmah" from the middle east (mentioned on ZF website), and "Esso". Interesting, the actual ZF website "recommended" fluids doesn't even mention their own Lifeguard Brands! I believe (but again not 100% certain) that the Lifeguard 5 meets the lesser 11A standard and the Lifeguard 6 meets the 11B heavy use standard. I believe there is forum information showing Life6 being used instead of the factory filled Life5, but requires full flush and adaptation if changing over from 5 to 6. I think we all now know the story of the Life5/11A standard factory fill being billed as lifetime fluid in the 2004 W12, and what happened subsequently! So high-quality LT71141/11B fluids only for me personally. I think one of the most important points here though, for transmission longevity sake, is to NOT MIX VARIOUS BRANDS OF FLUIDS. The first time you change the fluid using non-factory brand fluid, you should do complete flush and then stick with your new brand every other time after that, and if for some reason you want to change again, do full flush again. I'm not going to post a bunch of links to back all this up, too much work, anyone interested can dig for hours themselves. But I will provide one link below from a Euro car parts seller which gives some pretty convincing reasons why "lifetime" is pure bunk, and service intervals should be dependent on driving style. 
So heed my words, draggin' boys, or I'll wave at you as I pass by your car at Aamco or Mr. Transmission!!! And no, boys, I'm not an engineer like your other "buddy" who shares my name, but "I got lotsa book larnin', an' I's got plan-ty of time to read them thar' books and internet thang-a-ma-doodles!!!"eace::heart:

http://lr-club.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=19976


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## akhiles (Mar 16, 2015)

*laptop*

hi,plz visit in site http://www.laptopinfoses.tk


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

invisiblewave said:


> The absolute pressures don't matter, but side-to-side differential does. I run mine (_insterted:_*tires*) at 36/34 without any TPMS problems.


Hello again!

I was looking at the sticker for the tire pressures on my P, and it says that the front pressures should be lower than the rear. Or am I just mistaken?

-John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I don't think you're mistaken, but I think the sticker is! My sticker says the same thing. Those values cause extreme wear on my front tyres as well as delivering a harsher ride and less responsive steering, at least with an unloaded car (which mine usually is).


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Oh, okay! Well, at least I now know that I'm not wrong... And, I just saved you some tyre wear! 

-John


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I've been running mine at the lower Euro-spec pressures for a while and it's definitely giving me more even wear.


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

What are the Euro-spec pressures?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's a post somewhere with the sticker the ROW cars get. Unloaded, with 18 inch rims, I think it's 35 front, 34 rear. Mine are currently showing 36/34.


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Here it is... http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1691819 , post #14. Mine are at 32/35 I believe right now. When spring arrives, I'll bump them up.


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## akhiles (Mar 16, 2015)

*Laptopinfoses.tk*

Euro-spec pressures is Fuel Pressure Regulator.


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## akhiles (Mar 16, 2015)

There's a post somewhere with the sticker the ROW cars get. Unloaded, with 18 inch rims, I think it's 35 front, 34 rear. Mine are currently showing 36/34.


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

*Update on 'just bought my phaeton'*

Hello all. Sorry for the long absence, but here is a update on my W12. The shudder/vibration was caused by the drive shafts being dried out. The shop is replacing them and installing a new headlight. Not sure if TPMS sensors are going to be replaced at this time. LOVE my phaeton! Yes, it will take some care, but everything takes some maintenance. When it's clean and running like it should, I will post photos.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Barbara,

Thanks for posting that info. I don't recall hearing of a driveshaft issue before, so that's very useful.

Looking forward to the photos!

Chris


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Yes, me as well! Can't wait for the pics. Can you describe the shudder?

-John


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Got my Phaeton back today! OH MY GOSH--- it drives like a dream. The shudder is gone and it accelerates smoothly. I did not get the TPMS fixed. I was lucky in the fact the closest dealership (125 miles) actually has a trained Phaeton tech from way back when. They replaced one headlight, now they match. Really happy.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'll be driving mine halfway across Tejas in the morning.


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## Barbara27 (Jan 9, 2015)

Hope you have a safe journey.


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## plastech (May 3, 2006)

*Motgp*



invisiblewave said:


> I'll be driving mine halfway across Tejas in the morning.


Managed to watch Moto GP from Austin .Then drove my normal run,Austin ,Dallas ,Shreveport,Houston.










Rgds Tony


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## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

*Texas*

From what I'm hearing up here in Canada, eh, is that there is some tornados going around in your state.

-John


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## [email protected] (Apr 6, 2012)

Barbara27 said:


> Hello all. Sorry for the long absence, but here is a update on my W12. The shudder/vibration was caused by the drive shafts being dried out. The shop is replacing them and installing a new headlight. Not sure if TPMS sensors are going to be replaced at this time. LOVE my phaeton! Yes, it will take some care, but everything takes some maintenance. When it's clean and running like it should, I will post photos.


Would it be possible to have more precise information on which parts were replaced (centre driveshaft? half-shafts front/rear?) and what the symptoms were like before the repair; specifically were you getting a shudder on acceleration only; a shudder when slowing down?
Many thanks for any information that you would care to share with the Forum.
Regards,
Sacha


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## MilwaukeeDoug (Apr 22, 2014)

*Trunk Hinge*

Barbara,

I broke my trunk hinge awhile back, and my local mechanic welded it. Cost about $100. If you have an older Phaeton it will save you a lot of money to find a local shop with the skills to work on it. Going to the dealer will cost a fortune. The hinge repair would have been $1,000 plus. By the way, the hinge broke because the airsprings for the trunk got stiff. That was fixed with a squirt of lube in each one.

Doug


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## hoam skooled (Feb 4, 2015)

Barbara27 said:


> Got my Phaeton back today! OH MY GOSH--- it drives like a dream. The shudder is gone and it accelerates smoothly. I did not get the TPMS fixed. I was lucky in the fact the closest dealership (125 miles) actually has a trained Phaeton tech from way back when. They replaced one headlight, now they match. Really happy.


I have the 4.2 and my 6spd auto had a shudder and a hunting tach.. i was all set to do the tech bulletin from the day for the 4.2 requiring upgrade to lifegaurd 8 and a trans flash.. i had been driving it with the shudder since i bought it in february 2015 with 102k miles on it ..now (8/1/15) it has 130k on it ..wasnt horrible and only noticeable when driving really mellow but very annoying all the same..3 days ago i had the trans flushed n filled with the blue/green fluid (lifeguard8 ) FINALLY!!..and the trans is smooth as silk..shudder totally gone , tach no longer bobs up n down i didnt even do the flash ,was going to have that done at a dealer in a week when they could get me in.. but i can cancel that appt .. the flush totally fixed it by itself ..cost me 591 bux for fluid. filter and 3 hrs labor. i had it done at a shop that specializes in vw/porsche/audi/bmw and benz ..

hopefully car lasts a lifetime now..lol.. new blue gates racing timing belt , new t-stat , water pump , pulley's ect done 1500 miles ago ....new stoptech drilled slotted rotors ..freshly painted ready to install tomorrow along with power stop evolution carbon fiber/ceramic pads on front (stoptech ceramic on back) ..new billet aluminum intake linkage arms (both mine were broke and i didnt know it) ..nice power increase once fixed..lol ..i already thought it was kinda fast ..ngk iridium ix plugs being installed tomorrow ...two big cats under the floor deleted ..flowmaster x-pipe and two Borla mufflers in the rear done 1500 miles ago ..still quiet in town but a little less humble when i get on it and it has a very noticeable power increase ..only thing left at the moment is an ecu tune by APR ,i'm planning on doing this fall/winter..closest place APR dealer is a 3 hr drive ..after 30k miles i still get the same joy driving to the store as i did my first time driving it down the highway , really is one of the best kept secrets of the used auto market ..has never broken down or required a fix since i've had it..just routine things ..oh actually .. my windows got funky and a broken regulator caused my driver window to crack .. i purchased 2 new window regulator repair kits from ebay for 40 bux and a mint looking window with same tint (yay) for 120.00..need to get those put in ...between amazon and ebay i have saved a ton on all the parts i bought recently ..

oh..and i'm not privileged with a lot of money to throw around.. couple saturdays ago i matched 5 of 6 numbers in the michigan lotto for 2500 bux ..so i was finally able to click "proceed to check out" on my parts carts in amazon and ebay filed under someday ..lol ..all quality parts/brands and some crazy cheap deals


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