# HID flickering on both headlights



## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

Can I just replace the bulb to fix the flickering problem with the HID headlights? Before it was once in a while but not it's more then I would like. I think the problem might be the bulbs vs the auto leveling (I don't see it moving in a park position).


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## Fighterguy (Aug 23, 2006)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (rrussell)*

Probably worth a try. 
In my case, one headlight would depress under hard braking. It would revert to the initial dipped position you see when the headlights are first turned on. The one you see before they raise to the correct, while driving, position. I was sure it would be an auto leveling controller malfunction. After being able to discount that problem (under warranty), the dealer fixed it by simply replacing the bulb. When I asked how a bad bulb could cause what looked to be an aiming problem, the dealer said that bad HID bulbs seemed to cause strange problems.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

My car is at the dealer for the same problem. They say it's the bulbs, which they're quoting me $840 to replace. I'm going to save myself $700 by buying the bulbs myself and following the instructions here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3656681 . 
It's funny, the HID's in my RX-8 were covered under factory warranty. It's surprising that a high-end car like the Phaeton would be backed by such a weak warranty.


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zenmoused* »_It's surprising that a high-end car like the Phaeton would be backed by such a weak warranty.

HID bulbs are covered under the factory warranty


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (KCPhaetonTech)*

The two dealers I spoke to think otherwise.. Anyone have a good dealer in NJ they recommend?


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## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (rrussell)*

Hi Randy,
Look at the link: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3656681
See Michael's post about half way down.
It's not that hard to do, if you are out of warranty.
Regards,
Brent


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## trekguy (Aug 16, 2004)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Would anyone know if the HID bulbs are covered under the VW Real Driver Platinum warranty?


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (trekguy)*

Sounds like the bulbs. I just had my replaced. My dealer wanted $700 to do just 2 headlights. I found that the bulbs were standard (HID) bulbs nothing that warranted $700. Paid a shop to replace them both plus make foglights HID to match. $200 for headlights and install $200 for fog lights and install. There's a great DIY here see TOC and im mad i actually paid anyone to do it. Since it was pretty straight forward.
There also seems to be some discrepancy as to whether bulbs are covered under warranty. My factory warranty is over im now on the factory certified pre owned warranty portion and was told balasts would be covered but not the HID bulb. 
The first thing i did when i got my car was ask dealer to disable daytime running lights. Unnecessary wear and tear in my opinion. That wear and tear is probably why these lighrs went up much sooner than any other car i have owned with HID


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## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (rrussell)*

Is the bulbs covered on the Extended warranty from VW (underwritten by another company)? I have it.


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (rrussell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rrussell* »_Is the bulbs covered on the Extended warranty from VW (underwritten by another company)? I have it. 

Unfortunately no, but For mine I bought 2 bulbs shipped for $92.00. I put them in last night and they look great.


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## jeffvh (Feb 13, 2008)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (KCPhaetonTech)*

you replaced both, is there a benefit other than convenience to do them at the same time?


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (jeffvh)*

the benefit is replacing one and not the other could potentially cause a mismatch situation where one is brighter or the color is off. Not to mention the effort put into changing one (i.e. removing the air filter etc) so you might as well do both.


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (KCPhaetonTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KCPhaetonTech* »_
Unfortunately no, but For mine I bought 2 bulbs shipped for $92.00. I put them in last night and they look great. 

Are you referring to the HID low beams? For both? Where did you find them at that price? It appears they are over $200 each at VW. Is there an equivalent aftermarket source?
Steven


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## KCPhaetonTech (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (car_guy)*

Yes both low HID bulbs I got from MetroDirect. I had an ebay coupon for the month of November on top off free shipping from the supplier. D1S are the Phaeton bulbs and OEM parts are Osram if you want those also. There are a lot of options available, as it took we a while to narrow them down. Just be carefull, as some aftermarket bulbs will set the check lights symbol in the dash.


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (rrussell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rrussell* »_Can I just replace the bulb to fix the flickering problem with the HID headlights? Before it was once in a while but not it's more then I would like. I think the problem might be the bulbs vs the auto leveling (I don't see it moving in a park position).

Randy!! I had the same thing happen to me, I want to say around 52,200 miles.. The passenger bulb was flickering when the car was started. It would continue while I was driving too. Sometimes the Xenon light would intermittently go out. Day after day, it started to get worse and fast.. The car was in for some other repair (I want to say sunroof dial), the Service Advisor told me what was up. 
The bulbs were a pretty penny, around 320 a piece (without install), very expensive. Rather the VW Dealer change one, change them both. One side may be "brighter" or display a different color. I dunno, I did not want to tech to do the work twice basically. 
I have them in and they look pretty nice, been running them for about a month now. DRL's are turned off, so I have to enable the cars "tunnel vision" on for the lights to kick on. It's nice, I want to save the life of these bulbs as long as I can.. 
Good luck with this.. From what I read, this can be done yourself with some patience and a Saturday Afternoon. I need to review the TOC's again (do'h). 
- Adrian


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (KCPhaetonTech)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KCPhaetonTech* »_Yes both low HID bulbs I got from MetroDirect. 

I tried metrodirect.com but I don't think it's the right site. Can you provide a link? Thanks.
Steven


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (car_guy)*

they were covered or you paid 350$ each adrian? thats a lot


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (derrickonline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derrickonline* »_the benefit is replacing one and not the other could potentially cause a mismatch situation where one is brighter or the color is off. Not to mention the effort put into changing one (i.e. removing the air filter etc) so you might as well do both.

I had to replace one after a minor accident. There was a three year difference between the original and the VW replacement. No detectable difference in color or brightness between the replacement and the original on the other side..
Steven


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (Reflect)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Reflect* »_they were covered or you paid 350$ each adrian? thats a lot









Hey Ricky!
They were NOT covered, this was an out of pocket expense.. It was around 700 bucks total for two bulbs and labor..








Never again, I'll do it myself next time...


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

Here's a link to the ones I bought yesterday. They look like legit Osram bulbs, and they're less than a third of the price that VW quoted me at ($240/bulb ha). 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...witem=


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## Samhain35 (Oct 15, 2008)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (VWGlf00GL)*

So from what I can glean here, the HID lights are NOT covered under the VW Extended Warranty, but are they covered under the VW original warranty?


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## pirateat50 (Dec 10, 2005)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Please let us know how the install goes---the seller has 30 sets of bulbs advertised and many of us could use them if they work well.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (pirateat50)*

Will do. Just waiting for them to be delivered. I think I'll do a proper writeup on how to change out the light bulbs so we can stick it in the DIY section. It's a crime how much VW is charging to do this at the dealership.


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Here's the finished product, HID headlamps replaced and HID fog lights upgrade.








Forgive the crappy quality picture my Canon eats through batteries so I had to use the iPhone's crap camera.


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## Reflect (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (derrickonline)*

wow derrick thats BRIGHT. i wonder how the look in real life, bluish? whiter?
looks great, anyways. also you hae write up for the fogs? you rock!


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (Reflect)*

The pic doesn't do tt justice it's a little bluer than the factory HID headlamps and much brighter (but it could seem brighter because those HID fog lights make a HUGE difference). And both the HID headlamps and fogs match perfectly.
I can't remember if they 6000K (I think they are).

There isn't really a write up for me to do since it's been done before me.

Here they go....
Headlamp replacement:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3656681
Foglamp replacement:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2059841

Headlamps needed: HID-D1S
Foglamps needed: H11-55W 
Color: 6000K
I believe the foglamp part has 55W for 55 Watts? You want the equivelant HID 6000K lights.
They will come with the fog light and a little box (balast I believe) which will needed to be mounted as well.



_Modified by derrickonline at 6:44 AM 12-8-2008_


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Zen,
How did the lights from Ebay work out?
Thx,
George


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (oldham4)*

George, I did it last night around midnight. Went very well, though I forgot to take pictures. I'll do a write-up later today when I get back from this meeting- there are a few useful tidbits that I wish I had known going into it.
p.s.- In case you are thinking about buying those bulbs, they are in fact the exact bulbs that come with our cars. Same markings and everything. So yes, buy them from that ebay store. They're a steal.
Brian


_Modified by zenmoused at 8:08 AM 12-9-2008_


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

*How to Replace HID Headlamps* 
My headlights were flickering pretty badly, and so I went to the dealer. They quoted me $740 to replace the two headlights, including 2 D1S HID bulbs (at $240 each) and a few hours of work to remove the front bumper. After coming across Michael's helpful post in which he stated that you do not have to remove the bumper, I decided to tackle this project myself. 
Before we start, let it be known that these instructions are for a V8 engine. I'm sure it's similar across different engines, but not exactly the same.
*Preparation*
Step 1: Buy headlights. I decided to not try my chances with off-brands, and found a good price on the stock Osram D1S bulbs on eBay. Here's the link to what I found: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...0wt_0
Step 2: Collect your tools. You will need a long Philips screwdriver, a set of pliers, a hex-key set, and a star-bit set. I don't know the exact size of the bits you'll need, but they're fairly standard.
*Under the Hood*
Step 3: Locate your airboxes and remove the covers. First undo the two buttons that hold the heat shield on the airbox, just like a fireman's jacket. Each airbox has 4 Philips head screws holding it together.Once these are loosened all the way (they don't come out) you will see the air filters. Remove them and set them aside.
Step 4: Remove the snow screens. In your airbox will be a trapezoidal screen held in place by one Philips screw. Remove the screw and slide the screen out. While you have these out you should run them under some water to clean them. If they're particularly dirty, this will yield noticeable performance gains.
Step 5: Remove the air ducts from the front of the engine bay. These are each held in place with three star screws. They're really easy to remove.
Step 6: Move the airbox lids out of your way. First look for the compression ring that attaches each air hose to the plenum. Use your pliers to move these rings and remove the air hose from the plenum. This will allow you to move the lid of the airbox aside. (Note- be very careful not to get anything into the plenum while it's open). 
Step 7: Move the airboxes out of the way. Now that the tops of the airboxes are moved, you can move the airboxes themselves so you can get to the headlights. The airboxes are held in place by a hex screw, which is located at the top of the airbox and connects to the fender. Remove these. The airbox will still be held down. This is because it has two plastic pegs that fit into rubber grommets below them. With two hands, pull directly up with some force, and the airbox should come free. At this point you can either move them aside within the engine bay, or take them out. I did this both ways- both were just about as easy.
Step 8: Remove the headlight. There will be two stiff metal wires holding the plastic cover to the back of the headlight housing. These pivot, so move them aside, and the plastic cover should come loose. Take the cover completely out and you will see the back of the headlight. Its connector is facing downwards- pull it off straight down. then you can remove the bulb by pulling straight back.
Step 9: Install your headlight. Don't touch the glass on your bulb. This is like a game of Operation, only way more rewarding when you win. Maneuver that baby into the socket and you should feel it click into place- make sure that the connector is facing downward. Connect the plug and put everything back together in reverse order. 
Step 10: Get a beer. Yuengling if you have any. Congrats- you're done!




_Modified by zenmoused at 12:51 PM 12-9-2008_


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

You forgot 1 step, and possibly made an error on step 10.

Step 1. See a voodoo doctor to shrink your hand small enough to fit into the tight work areas.
Step 10. You could try drinking a beer while doing it.


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## zenmoused (Nov 6, 2008)

I should have worded step 10 "get yourself another beer since you should be done with the one in your hand."


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

Brian,
Thanks for the write up. I completed the installation of two new HID bulbs (from the ebay store you recommended) in a little over two hours last night. WOW, what a difference! For others planning on completeing this project, I found that there was one small step that was left out. Before you can pull the HID bulb out, there is a wire retainer clip that must be disengaged. Not a big step, but after trying for a few minutes to just pull the bulb straight out, I felt around & identified the clip.
On another note, were you able to remove the airbox? I do not know how the air boxes can be removed. I tried rotating them in every direction possible & could not get them out. Instead, I had to shift their position enough to get my hand & arm in there to change the bulbs.
This was an eye opening experience for me with respect to the air filters & the snow screens. They were FILTHY & I definitely need to replace the air filters. I am up for the 80,000 mile service, so I am sure that they are part of it. I look forward to seeing improved performance with improved airflow.
Thanks again for your summary of the process.
George


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (oldham4)*

Are you prepared for the big one? The 80k service on a V8 Phaeton does require air filter replacement. However, it also requires a timing belt replacement. With the normal recommendation of related parts replacement, the bill can get above $2k at the dealers. It appears that the delearships routinely ignore cleaning the snow screens since it's not on their to-do list for routine maintenance and thus, if done, is a freebie for the owner. If it takes a VW mechanic 15 minutes to clean the snow screens, that's about $30 of charity labor. I have taken the cleaning of the snow screens as my responsibility. I feel clean snow screens are as, if not more important than replacing the filter element. The snow screen is your first line of defense in filtering incoming air and will catch all of the "bigger" debris. 
Good luck and report back on how your 80k service worked out.


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## oldham4 (Apr 27, 2008)

*Re: (Jxander)*

Yep, I know that it won't be cheap. To help reduce costs, I plan on ordering parts from Capitol VW in California where Adrian has built a good relationship. Then, I will have a specialty shop car in town where I bought the car do the work for less than the VW dealer will do. They sell a lot of and do a lot of work on the A8, so they should be fine with the engine work on the Phaeton. I'll report back after everything is done.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

*Re: (oldham4)*

Great idea. No question about it, any good mechanic that is familiar with the 4.2 V8 should be able to do the job and hopefully save you some dough. It looks like buying the parts from Capitol VW will save you a good 25% or so on parts.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (zenmoused)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zenmoused* »_ *How to Replace HID Headlamps* 

There are some photos that might help you visualize the parts that Brian has referred to in his excellent post (on page 1) at these links:
Retrofitting Dual Xenon Headlamps 
Cleaning the Snow Screens in the Phaeton Air Intake
In both cases, the photos show a Phaeton with a W12 engine, but the concepts should be the same for a V8.
Here is a post that contains more discussion about headlight bulb replacement:
Headlight bulb replacement - how to get access to the bulb.
Michael


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: (zenmoused) Osram HID D1S available on eBay*

Just a note for posterity long after the eBay link expires.
The HID-D1S are A.K.A. Osram 66043 bulbs and the going rate was $67/each w/$10 shipping.
Other relevant information from eBay posting:
Direct replacement for Philips D1S bulb
Factory original in many US and European cars
3200 Lumens output
4250 Kelvin color temperature (Factory standard color temperature) 
DOT approved
It is recommended that bulbs be purchased in pairs, so that both headlights will have matching color. 
Bulbs with significantly different hours of use will have different colors. 
As 4250K HID bulbs age the color becomes whiter moving up close to 5000 Kelvin(K). 
Typically it takes about 100 hours of use for this to become noticeable.
Pictures show Osram #66042, actual part number is as listed #66043. 
These two part numbers are actually identical and interchangeable.


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: Osram HID D1S*

While researching D1S bulbs today, I learned a few things. The biggest difference between the various D1S bulbs is the color rating. AFAIK, they come in about 5 different flavors based on the Kelvin scale:
3000 K Golden Yellow
4300 K Crystal White
6000 K Diamond Blue
8000 K Deep Blue
12000K Violet Purple
From what I've gathered, the OEM rating for the Phaeton is in the 4250-4300 range and hence the Osram part number 66043. 
While I believe there are other part numbers that are compatible with our vehicles, the color of light emitted might be different. Other Osram numbers I've scene are 66141, 66142, and 66144 and they appear to be in a similar Kelvin range. Does anyone know or understand the Osram numbering scheme? 
Also, there are a number of other suppliers such as Philips, PIAA and Hella. 
Following is a link to a site that describes the Osram line:
http://www.osram.com/_global/p...C.pdf
Below is just about everything else you might want to know about high-intensity discharge headlights­.
HID stands for high-intensity discharge, a technical term for the electric arc that produces the light. The high intensity of the arc comes from metallic salts that are vaporized within the arc chamber. These lamps are formally known as gas-discharge burners, and produce more light for a given level of power consumption than ordinary tungsten and tungsten-halogen bulbs. Because of the increased amounts of light available from HID burners relative to halogen bulbs, HID headlamps producing a given beam pattern can be made smaller than halogen headlamps producing a comparable beam pattern. Alternatively, the larger size can be retained, in which case the xenon headlamp can produce a more robust beam pattern.
Automotive HID lamps are commonly called 'xenon headlamps', though they are actually metal halide lamps that contain xenon gas. The xenon gas allows the lamps to produce minimally adequate light immediately upon power up, and accelerates the lamps' run-up time. If argon were used instead, as is commonly done in street lights and other stationary metal halide lamp applications, it would take several minutes for the lamps to reach their full output. The light from HID headlamps has a distinct bluish tint when compared with tungsten-filament headlamps.
History:
Xenon headlamps were introduced in 1991 as an option on the BMW 7-series. This first system used an unshielded, non-replaceable burner designated D1 ¡ª a designation that would be recycled years later for a wholly different type of burner. The AC ballast was about the size of a building brick. The first American-made effort at HID headlamps was on the 1996-98 Lincoln Mark VIII, which used reflector headlamps with an unmasked, integral-igniter burner made by Sylvania and designated Type 9500. This was the only system to operate on DC; reliability proved inferior to the AC systems. The Type 9500 system was not used on any other models, and was discontinued after Osram's takeover of Sylvania. All HID headlamps worldwide presently use the standardized AC-operated bulbs and ballasts.
Burner and ballast operation:
HID headlamp bulbs do not run on low-voltage DC current, so they require a ballast with either an internal or external igniter. The igniter is integrated into the bulb in D1 and D3 systems, and is either a separate unit or integral with the electronic ballast in D2 and D4 systems. The ballast controls the current to the bulb. The ignition and ballast operation proceeds in three stages:
1.	Ignition: a high voltage pulse is used to produce a spark ¡ª in a manner similar to a spark plug ¨C which ionizes the Xenon gas, creating a conducting tunnel between the tungsten electrodes. In this tunnel, the electrical resistance is reduced and current flows between the electrodes. 
2.	Initial phase: the bulb is driven with controlled overload. Because the arc is operated at high power, the temperature in the capsule rises quickly. The metallic salts vaporize, and the arc is intensified and made spectrally more complete. The resistance between the electrodes also falls; the electronic ballast control gear registers this and automatically switches to continuous operation. 
3.	Continuous operation: all metal salts are in the vapor phase, the arc has attained its stable shape, and the luminous efficacy has attained its nominal value. The ballast now supplies stable electrical power so the arc will not flicker. 
Stable operating voltage is 85 volts AC in D1 and D2 systems, 42 volts AC in D3 and D4 systems. The frequency of the square-wave alternating current is typically 400 hertz or higher.
Burner types:
HID headlamp burners produce between 2,800 and 3,500 lumens from between 35 and 38 watts of electrical power, while halogen filament headlamp bulbs produce between 700 and 2,100 lumens from between 40 and 72 watts at 12.8 V 
Current-production burner categories are D1S, D1R, D2S, D2R, D3S, D3R, D4S, and D4R. The D stands for discharge, and the number is the type designator. The final letter describes the outer shield. The arc within an HID headlamp bulb generates considerable short-wave ultraviolet (UV) light, but none of it escapes the bulb, for a UV-absorbing hard glass shield is incorporated around the bulb's arc tube. This is important to prevent degradation of UV-sensitive components and materials in headlamps, such as polycarbonate lenses and reflector hardcoats. "S" burners ¡ª D1S, D2S, D3S, and D4S ¡ª have a plain glass shield and are primarily used in projector-type optics. "R" burners ¡ª D1R, D2R, D3R, and D4R ¡ª are designed for use in reflector-type headlamp optics. They have an opaque mask covering specific portions of the shield, which facilitates the optical creation of the light/dark boundary (cutoff) near the top of a low-beam light distribution. Automotive HID burners do emit considerable near-UV light, despite the shield.
Color:
The correlated color temperature of HID headlamp bulbs, at between 4100 K and 4400 K, is often described in marketing literature as being closer to the 6500 K of sunlight compared with tungsten-halogen bulbs at 3000 K to 3550 K. Nevertheless, HID headlamps' light output is not similar to daylight. The spectral power distribution (SPD) of an automotive HID headlamp is discontinuous, while the SPD of a filament lamp, like that of the sun, is a continuous curve. Moreover, the color rendering index (CRI) of tungsten-halogen headlamps (¡Ý0.98) is much closer than that of HID headlamps (~0.75) to standardized sunlight (1.00). Studies have shown no significant safety effect of this degree of CRI variation in head lighting.
Advantages:
Increased safety
The HID headlamp light sources (bulbs) offer substantially greater luminance and luminous flux than halogen bulbs ¡ª about 3000 lumens and 90 mcd/m2 versus 1400 lumens and 30 mcd/m2. If the higher-output HID light source is used in a well-engineered headlamp optic, the driver gets more usable light. Studies have demonstrated drivers react faster and more accurately to roadway obstacles with good HID headlamps rather than halogen ones. Hence, good HID headlamps contribute to driving safety.
Efficacy and output
HID burners produce more light from less power than halogen bulbs. The highest-intensity halogen headlamp bulbs, H9 and HIR1, produce 2100 to 2530 lumens from approximately 70 watts at 13.2 volts. A D2S HID burner produces 3200 lumens from approximately 42 watts during stable operation. The reduced power consumption means less fuel consumption, with resultant less CO2 emission per vehicle fitted with HID lighting (1.3 g/km assuming that 30% of engine running time is with the lights on).
Longevity
The average service life of an HID lamp is 2000 hours, compared to between 450 and 1000 hours for a halogen lamp.
Disadvantages:
Glare
Vehicles equipped with HID headlamps are required by ECE regulation 48 also to be equipped with headlamp lens cleaning systems and automatic beam leveling control. Both of these measures are intended to reduce the tendency for high-output headlamps to cause high levels of glare to other road users. In North America, ECE R48 does not apply and while lens cleaners and beam levelers are permitted, they are not required; HID headlamps are markedly less prevalent in the US, where they have produced significant glare complaints. Scientific study of headlamp glare has shown that for any given intensity level, the light from HID headlamps is 40% more glaring than the light from tungsten-halogen headlamps.
Mercury content
HID headlamp bulb types D1R, D1S, D2R, D2S and 9500 contain the toxic heavy metal mercury. The disposal of mercury-containing vehicle parts is increasingly regulated throughout the world, for example under US EPA regulations. Newer HID bulb designs D3R, D3S, D4R, and D4S which are in production since 2004 contain no mercury, but are not electrically or physically compatible with headlamps designed for previous bulb types.
Lack of backward-compatibility
The arc light source in an HID headlamp is fundamentally different in size, shape, orientation, and luminosity distribution compared to the filament light source used in tungsten-halogen headlamps. For that reason, HID-specific optics are used to collect and distribute the light. HID burners cannot effectively or safely be installed in optics designed to take filament bulbs; doing so results in improperly-focused beam patterns and excessive glare, and is therefore illegal in almost all countries.
Cost
HID headlamps are significantly more costly to produce, install, purchase, and repair. The extra cost of the HID lights may exceed the fuel cost savings through their reduced power consumption, though some of this cost disadvantage is offset by the longer lifespan of the HID burner relative to halogen bulbs.

_Modified by Auzivision at 2:49 PM 12-29-2008_


_Modified by Auzivision at 2:50 PM 12-29-2008_


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (Paldi)*

Hi Fred
Do you remember the warning you were getting in the cluster?
I've noticed in the last couple of weeks that almost every time I drive the car I get a warning in the first couple of minutes stating to "Please check lights". I also notice that it appears the right headlight goes out briefly and then comes back on. Is this what others are experiencing?
Art


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: (oldham4)*

Just did this operation today - biggest challenge was finding the magic rotation of the airbox to remove it. It seemed that if you tilt the top to the engine and then pull from the bottom making sure the bottom airbox lip cleared the coil pack wires it would come out. Bottom line is that it does come out and when done properly there is almost no rubbing or resistance.


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## ArtWarshaw (Feb 15, 2006)

*Re: (ArtWarshaw)*

By the way, anyone know where I can pick up a snow screen? When I went to clean the passenger side screen I discovered it wasn't there. 
VW parts locally said I had to buy the entire airbox for $300.


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

I had the passenger side low beam flcikering as well, with a very infrequent message about check lights.
I bought a pair of the lights on ebay for $99 delivered and installed them the other day. I ordered the 6000k versus the 4300k and am much happier with the output. I would also add (and this may be just with the W12) that you should install the drivers side first.
I was trying to do the passenger side first, and unable to get a visual on the low beam. Although after doing the drivers side, and being able to see the layout, I was then able to do the passenger side by feel (either that or get a dental mirror to be able to see it).
Thanks for the step by step instructions posted here and other places on the forum.
Noah


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (noahas)*

Guys, just for the benefit of those of you buying lights off of eBay, be aware that there was a bad batch of Osram xenon lights produced several years ago, and VW instructed all of its dealers to pull the bad lights from stock. It is not uncommon for stock from 'questionalble origins' to show up on eBay from time to time.
I have attached a technical note from VW that describes the production code numbers for the affected bad batch of lights. Perhaps the next person who buys lights from eBay could check the code numbers on those lights and let us all know if they are OK or not.
The document is in German, sorry about that, but the numbers are in English.







The gist of the document is if the lights were produced after week 31 in 2005, they should be problem-free.
Michael


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## scottmm (Mar 11, 2009)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

On a couple other forums I'm active on we've had excellent luck with http://www.ralleylights.com. I see they have a Hella D1S for $86.37, looks like the correct color of 4300K.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (ArtWarshaw)*

Yes, that is what was happening to me. It began to happen on both lights, left and right. The left one also flickers a little bit and has always done that.
After my deer accident, the lights and ballasts were replaced. Now all is well, no flickering and no warnings. They also stay on...


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thanks for the heads up. I ordered the lights from an eBay seller this morning. I will check the production codes after the lights arrive and report back to the forum.
Jim


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I received the headlamps. The lights do not say "OSRAM" but it appears there is a space to do so. Perhaps these are made in an Osram-branded factory (on the night shift?).
There is printing on the back that matches the photos in the PDF:
XENARC electronic
D1S 35W 66043
GERMANY
DOT q3f4 06J
If we assume it is an Osram bulb, the "q3f4" production code should be: 
q=Berlin; 
3=2003; 
f=week 6 and 
4=4th day of the work week.
Based on the German PDF, it looks like these are the bulbs rejected by VW. I will contact the EBay seller and return the bulbs.
_UPDATE April 3, 2009: The EBay seller called me today. He advised he did not know what level of failure VW considered unacceptable, but during the last year, he has sold over 14,000 of these lights (through commercial accounts as well as retail) and has had only 2 returned for a warranty claim. He offered to exchange the bulbs for a later D1S production run, and I accepted. He further advised he has never had a customer look at this level of detail before, and was interested in what caused me to do so for a $65 part. This led to a discussion of the level of detail that is common to the VWVortex Phaeton Forum members. 
Hats off to Michael (again)!_Jim

_Modified by Jim_CT at 6:20 AM 4-3-2009_


_Modified by Jim_CT at 11:05 PM 4-3-2009_


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## Roger Moore (Feb 20, 2000)

*Re: (Jim_CT)*

This thread was a great read. I may be in the market soon for new bulbs, as I have some of the symptoms of old bulbs, Thanks to all for documenting your experiences and your valuable information.
BTW: I am writing this from Dresden, Germany, @ the Hotel Dorint, just a block down from the factory.


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: (Roger Moore)*

Roger,
start a new thread with pictures from your trip.
Robert


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (zenmoused)*

All,
I replaced my bulbs yesterday and it was about a four hour job, but next time it should be two hours. I used the replacement Phillips bulbs obtained from an e-Bay seller ($78 each plus shipping). Here are a few suggestions regarding Brian's excellent "How To" guide. 
A. Start with the driver's side. It was relatively easy to remove the airbox on the driver's side, and with the airbox out of the way, relatively easy to get to the headlight cover and the HID bulb. The retaining clips are visible. This turns out to be a good warm-up for the passenger's side bulb replacement.
B. Passenger's side airbox was considerably more restricted. After trying for a while to remove the airbox, I eventually rotated the box in place until there was enough room to access the headlight cover retaining clips. 
C. On my car, the passenger's side headlight cover outboard clip was not connected at its bottom support. This added considerable time in first discovering the problem and then trying to fix it. As access is tight, I found the correct attachment point by feel.
Jim


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## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: (Jim_CT)*

My right headlight has began to turn pink about 30 seconds after being turned on, then after a minute or two and then flashes on and off at about ten second intervals until finally it simply goes out.
Once the car has set for awhile, it will exhibit the same behavior, except on a shorter timeline.
I am going to attempt to clean the contacts, as the light has never flickered, or shown any other signs of odd behavior. The VAG-COM shows it as an open circuit or a short to positive.
Unfortunately, I have attempted to remove the right light and am basically stumped as to how to proceed in such a restricted area. I will wait until I have a bit more time next weekend and attempt to remove the left bulb (so I can get some idea as to the scope of the work) and then reinstall it and then do whatver I need to to the right one.
Bill


_Modified by 357Sig at 1:25 PM 8-30-2009_


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## HunterST (Dec 11, 2008)

*Re: (357Sig)*

Exactly what mine was doing. I took it to the dealer on Friday and he replaced the bulb.


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## derrickonline (Feb 9, 2008)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (rrussell)*

PS: I suggest HIDGUY.NET I've ordered several high quality bulbs D1S for $105. You can get a HID conversion kit for your fog lights for $120.
They have a lifetime warranty on bulb + ballast!
Once I had one blow out, I wish I knew there was a lifetime warranty! Now I know!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: HID flickering on both headlights (derrickonline)*

*Archival Note:* See also this discussion - Lumenez D1S replacement bulbs. _Caveat Emptor_ if you are not buying replacement bulbs from the VW dealer.
Michael


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## aimhii (Oct 5, 2009)

Careful on E bay with a seller from Seattle area.
Wouldn't answer my questions honestly and when I indicated that I wasn't interested for the lights as they were used, he began sending harrasssing emails.
heads up


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