# Please Show Me PROOF!!!



## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

Please show me proof that the CAI setup for an 2008 will not give CEL's
Many of the people on here have 07 engines and claim they don't have CEL's if the CAI is installed properly. What about the 08 engine?








Ive been following up for 2 weeks and all i have come up with is CEL's and intakes that still have the non tested status for the 08 engine. Are there any intakes that work problem free and if so what are gains...any charts?
I dont want to waste my money on something thats not problem free.


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

there is none, it will at some point


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## pdi192 (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*

I've had my carbonio on for 5k miles now and I have yet to have a cel caused from it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## filippob1 (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: (pdi192)*

yeah, but the carbonio's do almost nothing in terms of power...


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## kaner05jetta (Dec 16, 2006)

Feels like mine did...


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## KampfGTI (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: (filippob1)*

and where do u get this information?


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## digitaltim (Apr 17, 2007)

*Re: (filippob1)*


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (filippob1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *filippob1* »_yeah, but the carbonio's do almost nothing in terms of power...

I dont know.....they say it has the same amount of gain as any other CAI


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (Cherb32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Of the 100 + Evolution kits we've sold, we've had four (4) calls and/or emails regarding a check engine light. Only one (1) of those was an 08' owner IIRC. We've sold a little over a dozen kits for the 08' cars. Only one (1) phone call and/or email about it to date. Of course, folks might be calling Evolution Tuning rather than us, though. 











_Modified by Cherb32 at 6:23 AM 2-21-2008_


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## mobitsfa (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: (Cherb32)*

Every cai will get a cel sooner or later. Just depends on your car. I've seen someone have 10k on a carbonio and got a cel, running lean.
The only way to get no cel's is to install your cai correctly and get flashed.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (mobitsfa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mobitsfa* »_Every cai will get a cel sooner or later. Just depends on your car. I've seen someone have 10k on a carbonio and got a cel, running lean.
The only way to get no cel's is to install your cai correctly and get flashed.

And once you get flashed...there goes your warranty


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## vw93to85 (May 10, 2007)

*Re: (Cherb32)*

Yes


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (vw93to85)*

Therefore we are back at square 1


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## Evil Mastermind (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (Cherb32)*

I'm watching this thread and also waiting for solid evidence of a working cai for the 08s. With dynos.


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## rangerbrown (Jul 12, 2007)

what else do you need you have to get flashed its that simple.
get a flash loader and unflash it before taking it in, 
hell i have to get vag com so the error code for engine warrnty doesnt show


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (rangerbrown)*

well most of us dont have a vag com let alone not experienced enough to use it or even the cash to blow on buying one when doing a simple mod. I just want to bolt on and go...its that simple. I dont want to monkey around and flash/unflash my ecu just because I want to hide my CAI...my point was to have a CAI that works without CEL's.....without flashing my ecu. Most people who have the 07 engines didnt have to flash their ecu...why should I? I just want a product that works http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Cherb32 at 9:48 PM 2-21-2008_


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (filippob1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *filippob1* »_yeah, but the carbonio's do almost nothing in terms of power...


I ran a guy with nothing but a Carbonio Intake, and in second gear, the car pretty much pulled away from me.... and I jumped off of the line.


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## vr_vento95 (Nov 26, 2004)

*Re: (filippob1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *filippob1* »_yeah, but the carbonio's do almost nothing in terms of power...


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## esp (Jun 11, 2007)

*Re: (vr_vento95)*

Relax guys, he's probably thinking of the 2.0T Carbonio intake


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## Garone (Sep 23, 2006)

*Re: (esp)*

getting your car flashed will not completely void your warranty. For a warranty claim to be denied because of an aftermarket part it has to be shown that the part failed in direct relation to the non OEM part. Now every dealership is different, some are mod friendly some are not
Back onto the CAI setup, I am holding off on getting one till everything is sorted out with the CEL issues. I ordered a K&N drop in filter in the meantime and I pick it up tomorrow.


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## Evil Mastermind (May 16, 2001)

*Re: (Garone)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Garone* »_I ordered a K&N drop in filter in the meantime and I pick it up tomorrow.

Please be sure to post a review


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (Evil Mastermind)*

This Friday I should receive my Neuspeed short ram. I'm gonna go ahead and make a custom restrictor plate like what the Carbonio intakes have, and report some results. Hopefully I'm lucky and pull no CEL's


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

The CEL comes from the engine fuel trim being too lean.
I got it jst by running the car without the stock air box and no aftermarket intake.
no matter what you do you may end up spending more than the intake cost to get rid of it.


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## rabbitransit (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

you should just be happy you have an 08, it does not need an intake.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (rabbitransit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitransit* »_you should just be happy you have an 08, it does not need an intake.


huh??


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (rabbitransit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitransit* »_you should just be happy you have an 08, it does not need an intake.

I hope youre joking


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## rabbitransit (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

I would elaborate, but not after a







reply


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (rabbitransit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitransit* »_I would elaborate, but not after a







reply 

awww im sorry







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
care to elaborate on what youre talking about?


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## vw93to85 (May 10, 2007)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (rabbitransit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitransit* »_you should just be happy you have an 08, it does not need an intake.

Ummmm, may I ask why?


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## rabbitransit (Feb 18, 2007)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (vw93to85)*

My car was in the shop last week, they gave me an 08 Jetta as a loaner.
I noticed a significant improvement in power delivery. It was the same off idle, but above 2K much smoother and stronger than my 07. It appears VW put some effort into tuning the 2.5 for 08. Given the CEL issues, and his concern over warranty coverage, I think that CAI or SRI is a step in the wrong direction.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (rabbitransit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rabbitransit* »_
My car was in the shop last week, they gave me an 08 Jetta as a loaner.
I noticed a significant improvement in power delivery. It was the same off idle, but above 2K much smoother and stronger than my 07. It appears VW put some effort into tuning the 2.5 for 08. Given the CEL issues, and his concern over warranty coverage, I think that CAI or SRI is a step in the wrong direction. 





I have an 08 rabbit and i originally wanted to see a CAI's test results for the 2.5 for 08 engines. How are CAI's a step in the wrong direction? I understand that you experienced more power from an 08 compared to an 07 (from the remapping of the ecu for the 08's) but why not want more power? Its kind of saying not only CAI's are a step in the wrong direction, but exhaust, performance chips, cams, everything else that will give you more torque and hp is wrong. 

My issue with CAI's is not solely on voiding my warranty because my dealer is mod friendly. My issue is the fact that CAI's give CEL's. I want proof that CAI's work and I want proof of the power gains before i do the mistake that many people on vortex has done and fork over 300 bucks for an intake system and being forced to either sell it or return the product because it gave CEL's


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## mobitsfa (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

Why not just keep your stock intake? You're acting like a cia is going to add 60 hp and 100 tq. Having a cai is going to give you barely any gains. 
What is it the looks? Just get a piece of tube and a filter and block it until you have the same air flow as the stock intake.
There is no proof and there never will be. Your ecu is going to adjust it's air/fuel ratio to match the cfms of an intake, any cai WILL give you a lean cel becuase it's going to add more fuel to the added air. Unless you find or make a cai that has the same air flow as the stock intake, which would be pointless.
Or get flashed to control your air fuel mixes.
This goes for pretty much any car. Even 07 or less mkv's get them not just the 08.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (mobitsfa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mobitsfa* »_Why not just keep your stock intake? You're acting like a cia is going to add 60 hp and 100 tq. Having a cai is going to give you barely any gains. 
What is it the looks? Just get a piece of tube and a filter and block it until you have the same air flow as the stock intake.
There is no proof and there never will be. Your ecu is going to adjust it's air/fuel ratio to match the cfms of an intake, any cai WILL give you a lean cel becuase it's going to add more fuel to the added air. Unless you find or make a cai that has the same air flow as the stock intake, which would be pointless.
Or get flashed to control your air fuel mixes.
This goes for pretty much any car. Even 07 or less mkv's get them not just the 08.

Well if you ask anyone, the reason why people buy things is either because of performance and/or looks. if you want to keep your car stock, thats a choice that is entirely up to you. And when did anyone on this forum (not just me) ever say a CAI is gonna add that much power. Dont over exaggerate what people post. I simply wanted tests of gains...wether it be 5hp or 10hp. Im not an idiot nor will i ever hope to see 60hp gains from a simple tube. There are manufacuturers and sellers on this forum that are basically selling a faulty product. i want someone to show me PROOF of an intake that freakin works. Its not that much to ask for rather than just creating a product and throwing it out on the market without legitimate testing over a period of time. Everyone wants tests of power gains because of the fact they are spending 300 bucks on a product they have been told works flawlessly "when installed correctly". And that is definitely not the case. Do a search and see what people are saying/asking. I have plans for my car in the future (turbo possibly) and Im sure the way im going a simple stock air box is not adequate hence the reason why i want proof. 
And I do have friends with vws that have intakes....without cel's. And not just vw but hondas and fords. 
If my friend can slap on a CAI and have it for more than 5k miles without getting a CEL.........then I believe it works....hell even after 2500 miles Id believe it. My point is there needs to me a little more research int he product. maybe you need something extra with the intake to bypass a sensor or something.
Even if theres a way to bypass a sensor or such would be better than being forced to spend even more money at the same time to flash your ecu. Im sure they will figure out a way to get that done since these products are being returned. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









With a little more research and less profit on the mind of the manufacturers, do you think it possible or is it a shot in the dark?



_Modified by Cherb32 at 12:46 PM 3-7-2008_


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## conejoZING! (Nov 25, 2007)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

I have a Carb intake and it works perfect. Don't expect some kind of OMG POWER GAINZZZZ!!! from a N/A intake. More than anything, the engine revs a little stronger. to get crazy huge power you will need a turbo setup and/or software. 
My 2.5 engine is quite the sparky pepster now with GIAC, Carb intake and Techtonics exhaust. It's a fun, zippy little ride.


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## mclothier (Jun 10, 2007)

well let me tell you from firsthand experience. i own a 07 jetta and i also have the evoair CAI on it. when the CEL is not on (ie no codes thrown) the car is night and day from stock. 
so for those smarty pants who think they re witty and knowledgeable bc they claim that CAI dont give you an gains...WTF 
cold hard fact of physics... you had more air to the combustion you're going to get more of a reaction therefore more power/ force will be exerted from that reaction. SO whether it be a gain of 5hp or 10hp its still a gain from stock so i see no reason for ppl to downtalk CAIs. 
another cold hard fact...: you will eventually get a CEL due to the running lean code its inevitable. but flashing will solve that problem (C2 is only 250.00-- look into that one)
also VW engines like any other higher end european car manufacturer, have very sensitive ECUs due to the fact that they are highly and specifically tuned to perform at a given level. this is the case with BMW, Audi, VW, etc. remapping the ECU is the only way around it.
and how dare you compare our beloved VW with a honda or Ford! those are cheaper cars designed for the average person and are much less complex mechanically than higher end euro companies. 
also VW doesnt like to use common sense so that might play a role in this whole 2.5L chaos...









_Modified by mclothier at 1:27 PM 3-7-2008_


_Modified by mclothier at 1:29 PM 3-7-2008_


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (mclothier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mclothier* »_
and how dare you compare our beloved VW with a honda or Ford! those are cheaper cars designed for the average person and are much less complex mechanically than higher end euro companies. 


Are you slow or retarded?







read the previous posts. He (as in mobitsfa) said you will get CEL's with any car when installing CAI's. I have friends who have fords and hondas with CAI's that dont give cels.....
I have a friend with an Audi TT with an intake and doesnt get CEL's (happy now?) 
Who cares if the ecu was mapped more "complex". Im just making the point that there needs to be more research done regardless of the fact these intakes give CEL's In which (i will say again) doesnt involve chipping/flashing the ecu. If theres a will theres a way.
And is comparing cars something new to you? Comparing cars is the reason you bought a VW....remember that.


_Modified by Cherb32 at 8:49 PM 3-7-2008_


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (Cherb32)*

Totally gay...




























100 miles and a CEL!!!!









Can I just drive the damn thing until I get chipped? The CEL shouldn't **** up the motor... right?


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## conejoZING! (Nov 25, 2007)

*Re: (Cherb32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cherb32* »_
you will get CEL's with any car when installing CAI's. 

Yep, you actually have to correctly install something... no matter what brand of car you drive.


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## kaptinkangaru (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (conejoZING!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *conejoZING!* »_
Yep, you actually have to correctly install something... no matter what brand of car you drive.









i had over 10,000 CEL-free miles with my VF intake, and suddenly, since december, the damn CEL won't stay off for more than a day or two after i clear it.(50-100 miles)
since the CEL's have arrived, i've reinstalled the stock airbox,VIOLA, no CEL.
i've reinstalled my VF intake. 3 times. i'm certainly mechanically inclined enough to install an intake correctly. 
there is a problem here. hardware or software, i don' know, but i don't want to pay to fix it (chip tuning) http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (kaptinkangaru)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kaptinkangaru* »_
i had over 10,000 CEL-free miles with my VF intake, and suddenly, since december, the damn CEL won't stay off for more than a day or two after i clear it.(50-100 miles)
since the CEL's have arrived, i've reinstalled the stock airbox,VIOLA, no CEL.
i've reinstalled my VF intake. 3 times. i'm certainly mechanically inclined enough to install an intake correctly. 
there is a problem here. hardware or software, i don' know, but i don't want to pay to fix it (chip tuning) http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Finally someone that agrees with what im saying!!


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## mclothier (Jun 10, 2007)

*Re: (Cherb32)*

yo cherb32, calm down man. my little comparison comment was a joke. obviously i had to compare cars before i ended up with my jetta.
and typically yes, european cars (which are usually on the higher end side of the spectrum in terms of performance and build) have pickier engines/ ecu's--how many asian and american made cars require 91+ octane( not saying that that is the sole justification but it is true)? and if you're so damn sure there's a way to solve the CEL w/o flashing, then do it. quit talking and more think hmm?
and how old are we sir? since when do we intellectually and soundly refute each other's claims by using RETARD or some other degrading name to prove a point? o wait on the vortex...









_Modified by mclothier at 1:30 AM 3-9-2008_


_Modified by mclothier at 1:30 AM 3-9-2008_


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (mclothier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mclothier* »_yo cherb32, calm down man. my little comparison comment was a joke. obviously i had to compare cars before i ended up with my jetta.
and typically yes, european cars (which are usually on the higher end side of the spectrum in terms of performance and build) have pickier engines/ ecu's--how many asian and american made cars require 91+ octane( not saying that that is the sole justification but it is true)? and if you're so damn sure there's a way to solve the CEL w/o flashing, then do it. quit talking and more think hmm?
and how old are we sir? since when do we intellectually and soundly refute each other's claims by using RETARD or some other degrading name to prove a point? o wait on the vortex...










My bad man, didnt know it was a joke. 80% of people on here have been *******s to either me or other people that need information. i think the vortex is getting to me...cant get mad at a fellow san franciscian, sorry.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Either way ive contacted a few companies and they couldnt come up with anything which just leads me to believe that they were quick to just make the product and put it out there. They should just say flashing the ecu will be recommended or required when selling their CAI's 
I have not come up with a way to solve the CEL problem because i honestly dont want to waste 300 bucks. I think its the manufacturers fault therefore it should be their problem in solving this issue...or they will see a big decrease in sales. 
By the way where are u from in SF? Im there all the time 


_Modified by Cherb32 at 11:47 AM 3-9-2008_


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (Cherb32)*

update!!!

I took the CAI off and put some oil on the o-rings for the 2 air tubes that connect to the CAI. and so far... 350miles CEL free!























I figure I'm gonna just go find some slightly larger o-rings, and see if those will do the trick.

I really think that all the CAI companies need to do is make better fittings for the air tubes, for a better seal. I'll post results after I test out my o-ring theory. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Crubb3d Rymz (Dec 25, 2006)

*Re: (TeamZleep)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TeamZleep* »_
I really think that all the CAI companies need to do is make better fittings for the air tubes, for a better seal. I'll post results after I test out my o-ring theory. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i figured this out the second i saw how the fittings were on my neuspeed pflo...
...but i got mine for a really nice price with the filter still wrapped, and ive had 0 CELs







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mclothier (Jun 10, 2007)

well i dno bout the rest of the CAI, but the Evoair has no o-rings so that theory is out the door. unfortunately CEL are inevitable with CAI despite our best efforts. as of right now the ony way around this is to flash your ecu for better timing and performance... there goes another 250.00


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (mclothier)*

Yep...so at least 500 big ones for not even 20hp.....I smell weak sauce http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif
My engine is stayin stock


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## Uberbunni (Jun 5, 2007)

Well, In my situation my Neuspeed P-Flow Intake was installed by a VW/Audi garage near my job. First few days, no CEL, then afterwards it threw CELs. At first it threw 3 codes, rechecked all fittings. Afterwards there was a point in which the CEL was gone for over 2 weeks. SO to make a long story short, mine has been intermittent at best. Just today In the morning I threw a CEL, it was around 29F when the temp reached 47F today, I turned the car on and CEL=Gone. Mind you that I do have the GIAC 93 software installed. 
With that withstanding I just want to say that, there really can be no "solid" proof that "any" mod (maybe with the exception of chips) done to "any" car will produce "0" cels etc the basic semantics of "modding" a car dictates that we are altering the vehicle from its factory delivered state which inherits the risks of causing the vehicle to attempt to achieve homeostasis after the modifications are complete (In this case an INTAKE) the failure for the car to attempt it's regular condition=CEL and all sorts of problems.
As far as the 08s are concerned, yes the 08 2.5l is different from the 07 (I brought that up in another post by comparing dynos.) Tuning companies have had the previous 2.5l model to tinker with much longer that the 08s, that is a given. More time is needed for these companies develop better products for the 08 and 07. However, even with time, and as these products become better and better, there is still NO guarantee that EVERY application of a CAI/SRI will produce 0 CELS or other problems, its not possible. Moreover,it is not possible to have a EVERY stock car to perform over time CEL free (factors include/ manufacturing/lemons/wear and tear etc) Of course companies will advertise and guarantee that their SRI/CAIs "when installed correctly" will produce 0 cels, SO do car manufacturers that guarantee its consumers that they will buy a sound mechanically reliable quality vehicle.
Sorry to ramble, I'm in that mood. But yeah, I honestly think one cannot get a "guarantee" or irrefutable proof of a "CEL"-less mod. It is one of the many risks to modifying any car.
As far as performance Cherb, take it from me, it MAKES a difference. I don't know much about cars, but I do love driving them to their limits. The intake and chip setup makes a excellent difference, especially in terms of available torque across the bands. take it from me, a fellow 2.5 'dubber.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*Re: (mclothier)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mclothier* »_well i dno bout the rest of the CAI, but the Evoair has no o-rings so that theory is out the door. unfortunately CEL are inevitable with CAI despite our best efforts. as of right now the ony way around this is to flash your ecu for better timing and performance... there goes another 250.00


The o-rings are on the 2 stock air tubes... It's the manufacturers fittings that are slightly too large for the VW tubes... 
So just try to put some oil on the o-rings, its been working for me for the last 500miles









I just need a day off to go buy larger rings...haha!

Oh, and I got my Neuspeed for $226 shipped, it was on that North American Motorsports sale that was a few weeks back!










_Modified by TeamZleep at 9:01 PM 3-10-2008_


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## subwoffers (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (TeamZleep)*

Well I'm back to stock now for many many reasons and I'll just share what I did. 
I started with the VWpartsmtl CAI back in the day. The part where the 2 rubber tubes connect was very small and it was difficult to push the O-rings in all the way, it threw a Cel every 500km. 
I took off the CAI part and made it into a short-ram in the summer, it threw a CEL every 1000km.

Like I said before, since the holes for the 2 rubber tubes to connect were so small It chewed up the O-rings pretty bad but I ran 1800+km with no Cel 
Around X-mas I decided to get the O-rings to sit all the way in the intake pipe. I grinded down the pipe walls and got them to fit all the way in. Threw cel every 68km. It's got to be the beat up Rings
Forum suggested trying Oil, same thing.
Reinstalled stock intake with chewed up O-rings, Cel every 200km
Just got new O-rings today....
All of the above were installed correctly, the damn rings where in so tight its not even funny. I'm going to go out on the limb here and say that the 2.5 ecu just does not like the extra airflow from the intake. I cannot understand why the CAI will throw a code every 500km while converting the setup to Short-ram without ever thouching the rubber tube connects gets me 1800km in the summer. Oh well.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (subwoffers)*

From what i have researched, you can install the CAI correctly and still throw CEL's. But try disconnecting, wait a few minutes and reconnect the battery so the ECU can adjust to the extra intake of airflow....Try this out and see what happens


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (Cherb32)*

anyone get any permanent positive results??


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

bump, anyone get any solutions? If I get flashed with Revo with a custom tune so it uses more fuel would that get rid of the CEL ? Has anyone tried that yet?


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: (rental_metard)*

I heard that a flash would get rid of the CEL but you sacrifice fuel consumption for that. Im just want an intake that has been proven to work...not after 100, 500 or 1000 miles...its gotta be at least 4-5k before I start listening.


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: (Cherb32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cherb32* »_not after 100, 500 or 1000 miles...its gotta be at least 4-5k before I start listening. 

How about 16K? if so, Carbonio FTW.
I also just made a bit of an assumption. Maybe all these good people on the Vortex are so happy about their new intakes that they go out right after they install it to see how it is, instead of following the directions (well my directions had it anyway) to let the car sit and idle with the intake for 15 minutes to let the ECU adjust. And that causes their ECU to go crazy and throw CEL at them.


_Modified by blackhawk 76 at 3:09 PM 6-15-2008_


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## rental_metard (Jul 17, 2006)

I tried that recently, it didn't make a difference.


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

who cares if you get a cel? if your dealer is mod friendly then they wont care if you throw a code. it doesn't do anything... if you throw a cel or not you still have the same air, fuel, and power as if you didn't throw one as long as you installed it correctly. only difference is that you have a light pop up on the dash, doesn't bother me any, it just adds to the TPMS and Headlight sensors. it adds some light variation on the dash http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








oh and btw, no one makes a perfect intake, try LNT in a few weeks, they say they have the fix and it should be CEL free for 2008s, but still there is no 100% guarantee


_Modified by MKVJET08 at 8:37 PM 6-15-2008_


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (MKVJET08)*

yeah a light doesnt bother you, but it sure as hell bothers me. I bought this car off the lot with 10 miles on it and if Im gonna throw an upgrade on it, I dont want it sending me negative signals because the manufacturer of the product didnt feel like properly testing the product for an extended period of time.....funny how none of these companies that sell it state that their product will not throw a CEL. (keep in mind that 06 and 07's tend to have far less problems than the 08's...and I have an 08)
Im picky on this not because of the fact that it throws a light which stays on...its the fact that its letting me know that there is a problem with what I have installed and its F***ing up the motor. Mod friendly or not, having an intake thats not working properly leans out your engine if the problem is not corrected. So, will a dealership reflash your ecu at no charge? Will they clear the codes for you at no charge? See my thing is, I want to buy something and not be forced to buy extra stuff in order to make one product work.
Most people dont have any problems while others are having problems. Probably depends on if it was installed correctly vs. year of the car since the ECU was tweaked for the 08's
Riding with a CEL was common for MKI-MK3 so it was easily ignored. I can see that being a problem...especially for my 91 passat. I had my CEL on all day, but for a new car? Hell no.
I care about my car and if anyone who wants to ride around with CEL's on a new car...be my guest, I cant be a part of that. I need proof.



_Modified by Cherb32 at 10:58 PM 6-15-2008_


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

i bought my 08 with 12 miles on it. 
unless you upgrade your fuel intake in one way or another (software, fuel rail, w/e) your engine is going to be leaner, thats what intakes do.
if the CEL bothers you so much i suggest not buying an intake until that miracle intake is produced.


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## blackhawk 76 (Jan 19, 2007)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_
if the CEL bothers you so much i suggest not buying an intake until that miracle intake is produced.

x2 
and the CEL doesn't necessarily mean its messing up your motor. Most CEL lights on new cars have to deal with emmisions of some sort, it's the flashing CEL that you want to avoid. With an Intake, like MKVJET08 said, will give you the same gains whether or not the CEL is on. So if you get a CEL, or you don't with the same intake, You are seeing the same A/F ratio, it's not going to mess up your engine.


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## anubis83201 (Jun 16, 2008)

I have the VF cai, NGP pully kit and GIAC chip, and I have never experienced a cel. I just got my 20K inspection and still going strong....


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_i bought my 08 with 12 miles on it. 
unless you upgrade your fuel intake in one way or another (software, fuel rail, w/e) your engine is going to be leaner, thats what intakes do.
if the CEL bothers you so much i suggest not buying an intake until that miracle intake is produced.

I agree....but, people with 06's and 07's are not having this problem as much. its the 08's that have the problem. Ive visited plenty of threads of companies that are throwing these products out just to make money without the proper testing (this was a few months back). 
Now i hear responces of people with the 06/07 engine not having problems and thats without chipping the ECU....but, there are still problems with the 08's. They will throw out dyno charts left and right with an 06/07 engine but none with an 08 with a stock ECU, dyno, and feedback that it works.
Yeah, I guess Ill have to wait for a miracle intake.
So, I found something new...has anyone tried installing the intake, unplugging the battery, leave the battery unplugged for 15 min. hook everything back up and then start the car. ive read this is a way to get around the CEL problem since the ECU would somewhat be reset and will adjust to the extra intake of air once the car is idling.
Has anyone tried this?


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cherb32* »_
So, I found something new...has anyone tried installing the intake, unplugging the battery, leave the battery unplugged for 15 min. hook everything back up and then start the car. ive read this is a way to get around the CEL problem since the ECU would somewhat be reset and will adjust to the extra intake of air once the car is idling.
Has anyone tried this?


i haven't heard about doing this for our cars but i have on others. for example, when i installed a K&N SRI on my dad's 06 Dodge Ram 1500, the directions specifically say to "unplug the battery before starting install and leave it unplugged until the install is complete, this allows the ECU to reset air/fuel ratios upon the next start-up". i typed that directly off the instructions. so you may have something here. 
we need someone who is about to install an intake to test this for us http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Wborolb88 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (MKVJET08)*

I'll be installing my carbonio CAI this weekend, so I'll give it a shot. I'm not very mechanically inclined though, so I might end up with a cel either way


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Wborolb88)*

cool...keep us updated on the install


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## mobitsfa (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (MKVJET08)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MKVJET08* »_
i haven't heard about doing this for our cars but i have on others. for example, when i installed a K&N SRI on my dad's 06 Dodge Ram 1500, the directions specifically say to "unplug the battery before starting install and leave it unplugged until the install is complete, this allows the ECU to reset air/fuel ratios upon the next start-up". i typed that directly off the instructions. so you may have something here. 
we need someone who is about to install an intake to test this for us http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Maybe Cherb32 is right. I basically installed mine that way. The first time I installed it I put the maf backwards, so I immediately got a cel. So, I disconnected the battery and re installed the intake. Then connected the battery and started the car. I havn't had a cel for 7k+ miles on my 08 jetta, but that's really nothing to confirm anything.


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## mk4chris (Mar 4, 2008)

i also did this on my 08 rabbit and so far i have 1k+ miles with no cell.


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## VWJettaMKV (Jun 1, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

i've been reading this thread but since im a noob i was wondering what flashing the ecu meant.








also it seems as though there isn't a perfect cai that works properly.
so would it be damaging the car if one was to keep driving the car with a cai installed and ignoring the cel?


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## pdi192 (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (VWJettaMKV)*

Had a carbonio on the car since 2k miles and now just passed 14k, and still no cel http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (VWJettaMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWJettaMKV* »_i've been reading this thread but since im a noob i was wondering what flashing the ecu meant.








also it seems as though there isn't a perfect cai that works properly.
so would it be damaging the car if one was to keep driving the car with a cai installed and ignoring the cel?









welcome noob








there really isn't a perfect cai and i doubt there will ever be. the trick is to get a CAI first THEN get flashed. 
getting flashed means getting a chip installed onto your ecu board. the company that installs the chip fiddles with the electronics of your engine, adding fuel and air intake and im sure some other little things here and there. doing this gives your car more horsepower and torque and sometimes better mileage although with most chips you use 91/93 octane gas. some companies who offer this is GIAC, REVO, Unitronic, C2 Motorsports, and Neuspeed. 
once you get flashed it almost guarantees that with a CAI you will not get a CEL. getting a CAI is actually recommended with most flash programs.
and afaik, having a CAI will not mess up your car, w/ or w/o a CEL.


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## VWJettaMKV (Jun 1, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (MKVJET08)*

oh haha thanks.
well then since there isn't a perfect cai, which cai would u recommend?


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (pdi192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pdi192* »_Had a carbonio on the car since 2k miles and now just passed 14k, and still no cel http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

wow 14k!!?? and no CEL? Sounds like a winner in my book. What did you have to do? did you flash your ECU also or is it stock? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pdi192 (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cherb32* »_
wow 14k!!?? and no CEL? Sounds like a winner in my book. What did you have to do? did you flash your ECU also or is it stock? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I installed the restrictor ring that it comes with, i think that's a big part of it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (VWJettaMKV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWJettaMKV* »_oh haha thanks.
well then since there isn't a perfect cai, which cai would u recommend?

i love my LNT CAI. by far the best power and torque gain i have ever seen/felt by just an intake. i highly recommend it.


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## Cherb32 (Jun 18, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (pdi192)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pdi192* »_
I installed the restrictor ring that it comes with, i think that's a big part of it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

and thats with a stock ecu or chipped ecu?


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## crawl (Sep 24, 2006)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*

Got my Carbonio and Unitronic flash last year @ H2O. I think it was about 18K on the clock. Now I have little over 35K (drove to school 50 miles one way 5 days a week). I have 07 model. 
The only time I had CEL was when CAI sucked water, but it disappeared after 3 days.


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## pdi192 (Jul 14, 2004)

*Re: Please Show Me PROOF!!! (Cherb32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cherb32* »_
and thats with a stock ecu or chipped ecu?

intake installed at 2k miles, flashed at 10k with c2 software so I had an 8k mile run with it on stock software with no cel http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## caj1 (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (filippob1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *filippob1* »_yeah, but the carbonio's do almost nothing in terms of power...

Which is no different from any other hot air intake.


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## Wborolb88 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (caj1)*

The mk5 intake should have a bulge in the carbon fiber right? I picked up mine from an APR dealer yesterday, I opened the box and the instructions said mk4, he said it was a universal instruction sheet that they put with the mk5's and he assured me my intake was for an mk5, but I really don't think it's the right piece... There's no bulge, the instructions obviously don't make sense, and it doesn't even look like it'd fit anywhere


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

*Re: (Wborolb88)*

yeah its not correct


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## mobitsfa (Jan 4, 2008)

*Re: (Wborolb88)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wborolb88* »_The mk5 intake should have a bulge in the carbon fiber right? I picked up mine from an APR dealer yesterday, I opened the box and the instructions said mk4, he said it was a universal instruction sheet that they put with the mk5's and he assured me my intake was for an mk5, but I really don't think it's the right piece... There's no bulge, the instructions obviously don't make sense, and it doesn't even look like it'd fit anywhere

here's the mkv cai http://goapr.com/VW/products/i....html
mkIV cai:
http://goapr.com/VW/products/i....html



_Modified by mobitsfa at 9:37 AM 7-1-2008_


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## Wborolb88 (Jun 17, 2008)

*Re: (mobitsfa)*

Alrite that's what i thought, just wanted to make sure, thanks,


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