# Carbon cleaning basics - Do it before the inevitable problem? How much?



## PaulQ (Sep 10, 2007)

I've become aware of carbon build-up and carbon cleaning in my research on whether or not to keep my car. I searched here and read quite a few threads on carbon and I've learned about symptoms people experienced. Can you help with these...

From what I gather, there are two types of cleaning: automatic and manual. You would do automatic first, right? (assuming you have to have a mechanic do it)
Can you give me any numbers on what an automatic cleaning might cost?
The last thread I read discussed doing it before you actually have a serious problem. I'm at 57K with no obvious issues. I don't think I've had this done. Should I do it? Can I just ask for an inspection?
People mentioned walnut and seafoam cleaning. I'm not sure if they were serious.

Thanks, as always.


----------



## OEMplusCC (Jan 27, 2013)

There are lot of wrong information on forum "he said, she said type of stuff", "I did this and nothing happened so it must be good" "bla bla bla". Ironically what I'm about to say might just fall into the same bucket 

Seafoam, "water flush", "Italian tune up" and similar cleaning is just wishful thinking. Sure it might help slow down the carbon deposit but it will not eliminate it. Catch can is a good investment but it also just helps slow down the carbon build up.

The only way to clean carbon build up is to remove intake manifold and clean it manually. Either 
1. Manually scrapping carbon with carbon cleaner and tools
2. Walnut blasting.

That's it! No other magic in a spray bottle

I would wait until you start experiencing carbon deposit symptoms. Misfires etc. I would do it as soon as 40k but no later than 80k miles. Cost depends on the shop and the technique they use. I have seen shops charge as low as $350 to $900 for the cleaning job.

PS: never heard of automatic cleaning. Probably some another forum myth ?


----------



## suspicionofignorance (Jun 13, 2017)

Automatic cleaning is for cars with Auto tranny...and manual cleaning is for stick shift cars...Right? LOL


----------



## PaulQ (Sep 10, 2007)

suspicionofignorance said:


> Automatic cleaning is for cars with Auto tranny...and manual cleaning is for stick shift cars...Right? LOL


Clever.

I heard back from one mechanic. He said carbon cleaning costs around $650.


----------



## suspicionofignorance (Jun 13, 2017)

The job is all labor..and is a bit time consuming....I'd get it dome...and [as others have said]...be sure to ask for "before and after pictures "...


----------



## jaso028 (Aug 12, 2007)

I plan on doing mine next weekend. I am at 86k now but this is a need to be done, starting with cold start misses on cylinder 4 and some rough cold driving. 
I will he walnut blasting them! I’ve done the soak and scrape method on the Tiguan, just time consuming.. 

The cost of $650 isn’t bad if you think about it. Shop rate of $100+ an hour, when it takes by the book 3.8 hrs to R&I an intake, plus maybe another hr or 2 of walnut blasting.. 

I will post pictures when done! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## md5mike (Sep 6, 2010)

I did mine at 65,000k. I would advise to do it every 65k-80k 

I would only advise the manual cleaning, The performance return is amazing.
I hope the images will help illustrate why manual cleaning is the only way to go.
GL.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/f9BJKYNwY3FGD9pLA


----------



## TSI-DRIVER (Jan 18, 2015)

I call BS, I've used CRC GDI on my car at 90k miles and immediately noticed a difference in low end torque return along with better throttle response. I bought this used at 71k so it's never been completely new to me. I follow the recommendation and I do it ever oil change and it really maintains the engine performance, initial treatment had alot of sputtering and misfires . The second treatment was less noticeable and so on. I skipped a CRC GDI clean and I feel it now. It's 2020 of course there is a product that can be preventative and affordable. I'd recommend using the sensor port of the throttle pipe and not the sensor on the intake manifold, I about took my fingers off when the fluid ignited. When it says warm up your car with a 15 minute drive it is serious. My car was driven for 3 hours so it was very hot and that's the only time I've had it do that on me. Give it a try before tearing it apart, it's CRC gdi cleaner


----------



## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

Took my car with over 125K in for some recalls and the dealer said my intake manifold needs to be replaced ($900), and that this would be the ideal opportunity to do a carbon deposit cleaning ($300) as I have some misfires in two cylinders. I think $900 is a ripoff for the manifold, but last time I brought up the carbon cleaning to my mechanic, he said he can't do the walnut blast cleaning. So do I bite the bullet and get it all done at the dealer (and get ripped off) or do I have my mechanic do it along with a solvent based cleaning?


----------



## jaso028 (Aug 12, 2007)

TSI-DRIVER said:


> I call BS, I've used CRC GDI on my car at 90k miles and immediately noticed a difference in low end torque return along with better throttle response. I bought this used at 71k so it's never been completely new to me. I follow the recommendation and I do it ever oil change and it really maintains the engine performance, initial treatment had alot of sputtering and misfires . The second treatment was less noticeable and so on. I skipped a CRC GDI clean and I feel it now. It's 2020 of course there is a product that can be preventative and affordable. I'd recommend using the sensor port of the throttle pipe and not the sensor on the intake manifold, I about took my fingers off when the fluid ignited. When it says warm up your car with a 15 minute drive it is serious. My car was driven for 3 hours so it was very hot and that's the only time I've had it do that on me. Give it a try before tearing it apart, it's CRC gdi cleaner


The Only way to truly clean the carbon is manually. 
Those chemicals work as a buffer, they will slow it down and if the carbon isn’t bad bad then that’s helpful... if you did the chemicals as routine services you might prolong the intake from coming off a few thousand miles longer.. 
eventually you will have to pull the intake and soak and scrape or walnut blast.. 

BG Makes a kit that you can attach thru the TB and pressurize it thru the system, again a small maintenance procedure but not effective.. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## jaso028 (Aug 12, 2007)

Here is the finished product from last Saturday’s fun! 
Walnut blasted all the intake valves and some soaking.. car runs way better, way more responsive and gets a bit better mpg... 

This is 86.5k.. I just recently bought rbis car after it’s amazing service history, knowing I’d be cleaning the valves.. 
cylinder 4 was my constant miss.. as you can see they were all a mess 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Jicafold (Mar 21, 2016)

jaso028 said:


> Here is the finished product from last Saturday’s fun!
> Walnut blasted all the intake valves and some soaking.. car runs way better, way more responsive and gets a bit better mpg...
> 
> This is 86.5k.. I just recently bought rbis car after it’s amazing service history, knowing I’d be cleaning the valves..
> cylinder 4 was my constant miss.. as you can see they were all a mess Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's amazing! Excellent photos. So...did you have your own walnut blaster? How much improvement would you say there is with the walnut process vs soaking and manual scrubbing with a wire brush?


----------



## OEMplusCC (Jan 27, 2013)

jaso028 said:


> Walnut blasted all the intake valves and some soaking..Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Info on the walnut blaster machine/setup would be nice. 034 motorsports sells port cleaning adapter but as expected little overpriced 
https://store.034motorsport.com/audi-and-volkswagen-direct-injection-head-port-cleaning-tool.html


----------



## jaso028 (Aug 12, 2007)

Jicafold said:


> That's amazing! Excellent photos. So...did you have your own walnut blaster? How much improvement would you say there is with the walnut process vs soaking and manual scrubbing with a wire brush?


Yessir, info below.. I felt the time to walnut blast was a lot less then soaking.. 




OEMplusCC said:


> Info on the walnut blaster machine/setup would be nice. 034 motorsports sells port cleaning adapter but as expected little overpriced
> https://store.034motorsport.com/audi-and-volkswagen-direct-injection-head-port-cleaning-tool.html


I will post up what I used this evening... I used something similar to that and honestly wish I grabbed the 3D printed vacuum attachment ones.. 

I used this one, with some modifications to make the holes a tad bigger.. it’s just hard to hold this and blast and cycle the blasting on and off with only 2 hands.. 

RKX Carbon Cleaning Walnut... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07T81SGT7?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I used this gun and made a few extended tips off some DIY’s that did not work for me lol 

Sand Blaster, Sand Blaster Gun... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B075SXPC2H?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share

I would have preferred this attachment 

https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_I...jXcbJsx1e4YgNXLbHn3iWfeH6rqB9KARoCGmAQAvD_BwE

Obviously not this one, but one made for VW. Which they are all over eBay.. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TSI-DRIVER (Jan 18, 2015)

Heys guys I replaced my downpipe this past weekend and the cat on the turbo was clean as could be! The CRC didn't clog it at all, I have also been guilty of putting steam into the manifold So that may have also helped as well. Next time I do a CRC cleaning I will take pictures of the valves and post some real results other than how it feels. I'm very in tune with my car so it if is running better I would definitely feel it. I encourage everyone to try the CRC and see the results for yourself, maybe you won't have to waste 500$ if it feels adequate after.


----------



## jaso028 (Aug 12, 2007)

TSI-DRIVER said:


> Heys guys I replaced my downpipe this past weekend and the cat on the turbo was clean as could be! The CRC didn't clog it at all, I have also been guilty of putting steam into the manifold So that may have also helped as well. Next time I do a CRC cleaning I will take pictures of the valves and post some real results other than how it feels. I'm very in tune with my car so it if is running better I would definitely feel it. I encourage everyone to try the CRC and see the results for yourself, maybe you won't have to waste 500$ if it feels adequate after.


In all my years of doing this I have not had success with a single chemical.. BG came out with a system that you can run thru the TB, it’s more for preventive maintenance imo, if you did it every other OC, maybe you can stretch out a carbon blasting...
Tried that product as a demo with BG on our Tiguan, failed miserably, needed to pull intake and blast the valves..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## selkec (Aug 19, 2014)

If you truly want to keep the carbon buildup out all you need is to run water/meth injection. You will never have to have carbon cleaning done because there will be zero buildup. 

I’ve ran a two nozzle setup from snow performance with the boost controller. One nozzle down on the pipe right after the inter cooler and the second in a throttle body spacer. 

All the misinformation on this site is kind of ridiculous. Water/meth should be everyone’s first mod that wants a clean good running engine that will never need carbon cleaned.
On top of that when it’s spraying your IAT will drop 40-60 degrees. Egt also drop.
And since it raises the octane you can run higher octane tunes. I have ran the apr stage two 104 octane tune for 30000 miles now with not a single CEL or code. We scoped my engine two months ago and it was practically spotless!!! 

I wish people were more informed on these forums. There wouldn’t be much talk of catch cans and carbon buildup if they were .


----------



## jaso028 (Aug 12, 2007)

selkec said:


> If you truly want to keep the carbon buildup out all you need is to run water/meth injection. You will never have to have carbon cleaning done because there will be zero buildup.
> 
> I’ve ran a two nozzle setup from snow performance with the boost controller. One nozzle down on the pipe right after the inter cooler and the second in a throttle body spacer.
> 
> ...




100% truth right there! 

How was it when you scoped?? Clean or little build up? I hear some have minor build up... 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## DbilasTDI (Nov 5, 2017)

on the 3.6, EGR is "induced" with the variable cam timing. so the smegma hits the intakes in the chamber of the head. Cant this be turned out?

How do you trigger water/meth on a non boosted engine?


----------



## midijunkie (Sep 8, 2020)

Where do you spray the crc? Sorry. I don't know much about cars.


----------



## russaroll (Jun 15, 2021)

selkec said:


> If you truly want to keep the carbon buildup out all you need is to run water/meth injection. You will never have to have carbon cleaning done because there will be zero buildup.
> 
> I’ve ran a two nozzle setup from snow performance with the boost controller. One nozzle down on the pipe right after the inter cooler and the second in a throttle body spacer.
> 
> ...


So, could i run a water/meth kit w/o a tune? If it raises the octane i could just use lower grade gas.


----------



## Willy Pickton (Jun 1, 2021)

TSI-DRIVER said:


> CRC gdi cleaner


Just spray in the intake as below?


----------



## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

That's not gonna clean them....they have to manually be scrubbed or blasted


----------



## gibbonsstephen1 (Dec 3, 2021)

Done a carbon clean on my vw scirocco 2.0 tsi but I'm now now getting EPC and check engine light amd car is running like its misfiring after reinstalling everything. Anyone have any idea where to start


----------



## OEMplusCC (Jan 27, 2013)

gibbonsstephen1 said:


> Done a carbon clean on my vw scirocco 2.0 tsi but I'm now now getting EPC and check engine light amd car is running like its misfiring after reinstalling everything. Anyone have any idea where to start


Have you refreshed fuel injector seals?
Make sure that intake manifold is properly seated and torqued down. I believe torque for intake manifold is 9NM. It is also recommended to install a new instake manifold gasket when removing intake manifold.


----------



## gibbonsstephen1 (Dec 3, 2021)

OEMplusCC said:


> Have you refreshed fuel injector seals?
> Make sure that intake manifold is properly seated and torqued down. I believe torque for intake manifold is 9NM. It is also recommended to install a new instake manifold gasket when removing intake manifold.


Q
. ...?


OEMplusCC said:


> Have you refreshed fuel injector seals?
> Make sure that intake manifold is properly seated and torqued down. I believe torque for intake manifold is 9NM. It is also recommended to install a new instake manifold gasket when removing intake manifold.


I done the Teflon seals as all 4 injector came out with the manifold. Manifold is seated fully down. New manifold gasket was installed. 
I didn't have the vw tool for installing the Teflon seals I used cable ties to help press them down. The manifold was a bit of a push to get it seated. I came across different spacers in the injector ports that were not the same as the ones I got from the dealer.


----------



## OEMplusCC (Jan 27, 2013)

gibbonsstephen1 said:


> Q
> . ...?
> 
> 
> ...


Hmmm. I guess other things to check is, iginition coils and spark plugs. Also make sure that all the hoses to PVC are properly connected (no leaks)


----------



## gibbonsstephen1 (Dec 3, 2021)

OEMplusCC said:


> Hmmm. I guess other things to check is, iginition coils and spark plugs. Also make sure that all the hoses to PVC are properly connected (no leaks)


I got a diagnostic on the car and it says injector 4 has a fault on so its back to pulling back off the manifold.


----------



## Groundcoat (Aug 4, 2021)

I recently did a carbon cleaning of my 2012 2.0t CC and did so by blasting with walnut shells. I first tried the CRC chemical but wasn't convinced of its effectiveness. I bought the cheapest setup they had at HF and it worked beautifully. It took me a while to remove the intake manifold but I was taking my time so as not to make any mistakes or lose any parts. The entire blasting process only took a few short minutes in order to achieve spotlessly clean valves. I cleaned the diverter plates and the injector tips with the CRC chemical using a small nylon brush. The key to success with the blasting process is in using an adapter designed to connect to both your vacuum and your blast gun. I had absolutely no mess and like I said, the whole process went surprisingly fast. The valve chambers looked beautiful when I was done. I installed new seals on all of the injectors and a new gasket on the manifold and put everything back together. When I do this again, I will install new injectors and take a harder look at the water pump. Once you see how good the blasting method works, you won't even consider chemical cleaning.


----------

