# INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

**** OFFICIAL VWVORTEX ROTREX SUPERCHARGER THREAD ****
*INA Engineering is looking for forum regulars to "test" our PG kits along side our 1.8T kits.If you are interested in upgrading from a G60 to a Rotrex unit and you are looking for an introductory deal then please do not hesitate to EMAIL US with details of your project.*




In stock form the G60 motor has been fun but being a former G60 MKII owner I am sure I speak for the forum when I say we all know how finicky these little babies can be.I have campaigned for years for Hybrid G60's (See Thread 1 & Thread 2) just so users could get more power out of there engines but sadly one major fact still remains.The G60 supercharger is an inefficient 20+ year old design.We have seen companies develop products for the G60 charger in more ways than one and to that I give a huge http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to many of them as they have inspired me to do what I am doing today.
INA Engineering was founded on the principle of "outside the box" thinking by bringing new ideas to old platforms.This latest project we have been working on since late 2007.We were supposed to debut it @ WF08 but sadly it did not happen.Enough about the history lesson....onto the main show. (grab your popcorn)
*INTRODUCING* *Rotrex Supercharger* kits for Volkswagen/Audi.The first available complete kit in North America for the PG G60 & other various VW/Audi engines.

_Quote, originally posted by * INA Engineering - Rotrex G60 replacement kit* »_
*Kit includes:*
Rotrex C30-XX supercharger with Hub Assembly torqued to supercharger.

Rotrex Supercharger pulley with the following choices in diameter



70,75,80,85,90,95,100,105 & 110mm

Rotrex self contained oiling system which includes:



(1) Oil canister

(1) Magnetic Oil filter

(1) SX100 Oil

(10) feet of rubber line

(10) clamps for line + various other hardware components

INA Engineering CNC machined bracket for supercharger & oil canister

OEM accessory bracket to replace stock G60 bracket

*PRICE = $2559 US + Shipping*
Add the following & pay only an extra *$240 US*
Brand new 90A Isaka ABA alternator

T6061 CNC machined pulley for H20 pump & Alternator pulley

_(images of the kit will be posted shortly)_


Vortex members can download the data direct from Rotrex's website or you can click the following links below.Feel free to browse the website and obtain whatever information you need.The short take on the product: (taken direct from Rotrex's website because it is that good







)

_Quote, originally posted by *Short Take* »_
Rotrex is the leading manufacturer of high speed traction drives. The patented planetary drive allows speeds up to 250,000rpm offering high efficiency, compactness, reliability and silent operation. 
Supercharger Set up & Maintenance
Rotrex standard product range consists of the C15, C30 and C38 families. The unique small size of the C15 makes it the most compact supercharger on the market. The C30 and C38 cover the market for larger displacement engines.
*C15-XX Up to 2Lt Engine Capacity*
Less than 50hp to 200hp Engine Output
201,500 rpm Maximum Impeller Speed
*1 : 12.67 Gear Ratio*
Rotrex C15-XX Technical Data Sheet
*C30-XX 1Lt to 4.5Lt Engine Capacity*
100hp to 400hp Engine Output
120,000 rpm Maximum Impeller Speed
*1 : 9.49 Gear Ratio*
Rotrex C30-XX Technical Data Sheet
*C38-XX 3Lt to 6Lt Engine Capacity*
300hp to 630hp Engine Output
90,000 rpm Maximum Impeller Speed
*1 : 7.5 Gear Ratio*
Rotrex C38-XX Technical Data Sheet


From time to time we see questions come up along the lines of how is "X" supercharger better than "Y" supercharger.I am not here to address every single supercharger out there,just the ones that concern me.

_Quote, originally posted by *PROS VS CONS* »_
*PROS of Rotrex vs G60*
VERY Low Maintenance

Availability - unless Rotrex goes bankrupt,these units will be available for years to come

New technology which surpasses the efficiency of the 20+ year old G60 units.

More compact design.Allows for larger model superchargers to fit in engine bay.

Wide range of Supercharger pulley diameter

Quiet - yes the Rotrex makes no noise so there is no need to silence this bad boy.

INDEPENDENT Oiling System - very crucial.We have seen many G60's fail because they use the same engine oil that runs through the motor.Failed rod bearing = failed supercharger

1 Support bracket - Because the unit is lightweight & compact there is no need for a rear support bracket leaving users the option of freeing up the crankcase breather port for a catch can.

1 PRICE POLICY - The difference in prices between the C15 & C38 series is minimal at $200US.

High reputation worldwide

*CONS of Rotrex kit vs G60*
PRICE - essentially this is the only con of the Rotrex kit.However once the initial investment is made there will be no need to pay for rebuilds every couple 50,000 km's.Perfect for your piece of mind

Clockwise rotation only - users who want to mount there charger in the stock G60 air box region (we have had requests for this) wont be able to do it with a Rotrex

Offset - The centre of the drive belt must be no more than 23mm away from the face of the unit.Failure to do this in the design will void the warranty.This meant that we were not able to make an adapter from the Rotrex to the stock G60 bracket.



*NOTE :* We can build a rotrex kit for practically any 4 or 5 cylinder Volkswagen & Audi.We have the engines on stands,the drawings in hand & the frames to test them.If you are interested in being part of a special INA Engineering project then simply do not hesitate to ask








Here is a sample of our 1.8T kit in testing right now.








Thank you so much for the awesome feedback and support over the years guys


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## deth_core (Jul 12, 2002)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Z-Raddo G60 (Nov 8, 2007)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ (INA)*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ (Z-Raddo G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Z-Raddo G60* »_







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


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## slammed86golf (Aug 2, 2006)

setup look good any idea on the power it could put out on a 20v?


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## G60 CAB (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: (slammed86golf)*

This has Mike's name all over it. The Harley needs this.


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## Snowhere (Jul 27, 2007)

*Re: (G60 CAB)*

Yea, what type of power are we talking for the stock PG motor? What level of boost with what pulley and how does the power delivery look like? Or, for 15 to 20 psi, what would the setup be and what would the dyno curve look like?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (slammed86golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slammed86golf* »_setup look good any idea on the power it could put out on a 20v?

Hoping for around 300whp on the 20V.Will keep you guys posted with the results.
I am not going to guess on the power output of the PG G60.I am talking via PM's/emails with some guys right now who want to be test platforms for this project.If you are interested simply send me a PM.


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## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i've been waiting for you to announce this for 6 months so i can talk about it!!!!
this is super-exciting!!! these little babies can be force-fed by a turbo as well, with no ill-effects















i kinda wish they did make a little noise though


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## slammed86golf (Aug 2, 2006)

dam i wish i didnt start buy my parts for my BT setup or i would be all over this.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

do you have a kit or are you just advertising the raw centrifugal rotrex unit. 
if you have a real kit please post the hardware and data.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_do you have a kit or are you just advertising the raw centrifugal rotrex unit. 
if you have a real kit please post the hardware and data.

We have a complete kit for a PG G60 8V motor.Hardware images will be posted shortly.


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *INA* »_
We have a complete kit for a PG G60 8V motor.Hardware images will be posted shortly.









rotrex set ups for the pg g60 have been around for many many years now. are you doing up a new set up or reviving an older one? ive had a couple customers with this blower set bring their cars to our shop for tuning and repairs. looking forward to seeing your data and pics of this set up.


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## nextproject (Nov 18, 2007)

*Re:*

This is great news. Is the kit being developed with the outlet matching up to current boost pipes? or will a custom intercooler inlet pipe need to be made?
I can't wait to see how these perform, although i really gotta wonder who's going to be the first to take the plunge, i'd do it in a heartbeat. But unfortunately i dont have 2600 bucks to use to spend on something to replace something thats working fine right now.
I wish you would have spoke more with me via email, i hadnt received a reply from the response i sent you over a month ago.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
rotrex set ups for the pg g60 have been around for many many years now. are you doing up a new set up or reviving an older one? ive had a couple customers with this blower set bring their cars to our shop for tuning and repairs. looking forward to seeing your data and pics of this set up.

With the new generation rotrex set ups?Have not seen one as yet.As far as I know this is the first G60 replacement kit available with the Rotrex supercharger brand.There are companies in Europe that claim to have kits but I have not heard of anyone using them or testing them.

_Quote, originally posted by *nextproject* »_I wish you would have spoke more with me via email, i hadnt received a reply from the response i sent you over a month ago. 

Thats wierd.I reply to all my emails within 8 hours ....you sure?
send me the email again and I will reply to it.


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## nextproject (Nov 18, 2007)

i think they person i was talking to was ina on the forum, i didnt mean to come off as mad. i know emails get lost and sent to spam folders, i was just sayin, i did send several, got some replies, then it all stopped, i didnt pursue it because i thought you guys were pretty slammed (im sure you are though)
I will send another email later tonight.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (nextproject)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nextproject* »_i think they person i was talking to was ina on the forum, i didnt mean to come off as mad. i know emails get lost and sent to spam folders, i was just sayin, i did send several, got some replies, then it all stopped, i didnt pursue it because i thought you guys were pretty slammed (im sure you are though)
I will send another email later tonight. 

INA = wizard-of-od = me
I have 2 staff members but I am usually the one that replies to the emails.This is really wierd and I am sorry about that.Send me one tonight.


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## the_mad_rabbit (Aug 10, 2003)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ (INA)*

That looks EXTREMELY tempting








Too bad both of my chargers are in good condition








-AJ


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
As far as I know this is the first G60 replacement kit available with the Rotrex supercharger brand.There are companies in Europe that claim to have kits but I have not heard of anyone using them or testing them.


Like I've said, had at least two Corrado G60 Rotrex supercharged cars in my shop. Have you ever ran a Rotrex centrifugal supercharger on the G60 PG 8v engine or driven a car with one on it?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ (INA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_Like I've said, had at least two Corrado G60 Rotrex supercharged cars in my shop. Have you ever ran a Rotrex centrifugal supercharger on the G60 PG 8v engine or driven a car with one on it? 

John not exactly sure what you are getting at.
I understand your need to protect your Lysohlm market but this product is completely different to what you offer. 
Have I ever ran a Rotrex unit on a G60? NO...
Why did I develop a G60 replacement kit? Because I wanted to,I saw a gap in the industry and I focused on it.An OEM+ replacement for the G60 with no silencer needed.We are in the process of getting people on board for testing.If you are interested in something then send me a PM mate


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## JBETZ (Feb 17, 2000)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thr ... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
John not exactly sure what you are getting at.
I understand your need to protect your Lysohlm market but this product is completely different to what you offer.

What am I getting at, I'm getting at exactly what my questions have stated. You posted that you have a complete kit for the PG G60 market. Most people would think that you have already built this product and ran it on an actual car. When are you going to post the pics? I have asked you simple, polite and non threatening questions here. What have I stated that is defensive of our Lysholm market? Or is it that I am just in here simply asking you these questions and you are defensive







I am not at all concerned about a Rotrex kit for the PG G60 as they have been available for over a decade now, or for that matter any four cylinder engine running a centrifugal charger. It will be interesting to see the data when compared to the g-lader and or a turbo replacement on this engine.

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Have I ever ran a Rotrex unit on a G60? NO...
Why did I develop a G60 replacement kit? Because I wanted to,I saw a gap in the industry and I focused on it.An OEM+ replacement for the G60 with no silencer needed.We are in the process of getting people on board for testing.If you are interested in something then send me a PM mate










Have you mounted one on a PG G60 engine, or are you just planning this? This is great, wish you the very best http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If you have built the actual hardware please post the pics. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
peace


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thr ... (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_This is great, wish you the very best http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If you have built the actual hardware please post the pics. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
peace










Will do
Thanks for the support







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thr ... (Wizard-of-OD)*

It's always a thrill for me to see a new toy to add to the old Corrado's list of power adders. It's even more fun when I get to tweak and tune on one first hand. 
We have toyed with almost all of the options out there and even merged a couple of them together for the fun of it. We have experience with everything from g-laders to eatons to lysholms to turbos and even twin charged setups, but this will be our first taste of the rotrex experience. I know that this is not the first attempt at a rotrex conversion, but I have the feeling it will be the most successful.
We at SNS are anxiously awaiting the arrival of one of the INA kits to boost up one of our own







. The plan is to offer an SNS tune with the kits. We are talking about stock replacement to stage 4 for right now, but I'm sure the pulleys will get smaller and injectors will get larger before too long







. If it all works out well enough, maybe I'll have to throw one on my fox mustang, too







.


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## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thr ... (jwatts)*

Now thats going to be a sweet combo... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I'd give it a go myself on the twin screw Cabby but i've got enough on my plate...


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thr ... (jwatts)*

Looking forward to working with SNS to come up with an affordable solution for the community.


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## GLImax (Nov 22, 2004)

pics?


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## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (GLImax)*

There'll be plenty of pics when the kit shows up in the ATL


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ (INA)*

What kind of boost pressure and heat will we see from these chargers?
if we have a OEM crank pully of 5 3/4" = 146mm
and the smallest Rotrex charger pully is 70mm
then that makes it a 2.0:1 engine rpm to charger rpm ratio
that means on a PG engine i would see 6500rpm = 13000
on a built engine i could see 8000rpm = 16000
that would mean the charger input shaft will be spinning 
13000rpm or 16000rpm
at 1:7.5 impeller ratio on your largest charger
that equals 97500rpm or 112000rpm
on the C38-61 the flow chart shows a 3.6 - 4.6 pressure ratio
1 psi = 0.7031 grams/square millimetre
at the maxime Charger RPM at 0.40 kg/S 
x 3.6 = 1.44 kg 0r 1.4 bar =20psi
x 4.6 = 1.84 kg or 1.8 bar =26psi
the C38-71 shows at max rpm a 0.45 kg/s
x 4.6 = 2.07kg or 2.0 bar = 29psi
this looks good*BUT* the flow chart shows 115000 rpm 
were the ad says 90,000 rpm Maximum Impeller Speed
*NOTE 90,000 RPM limit*
so in relality 0.40 kg/s
x 2.8 = 1.12 kg or 1.0 bar = 15.9 psi
This is the largest Rotrex charger on the charts provided
after doing the math on all that data provided i still don't know what 
the thermal dynamics are? how hot is the charged air?


















_Modified by REPOMAN at 8:57 PM 2-1-2009_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_
this looks good*BUT* the flow chart shows 115000 rpm 
were the ad says 90,000 rpm Maximum Impeller Speed
*NOTE 90,000 RPM limit*

Assuming the use of a 70mm unit.Most Rotrex chargers leave Rotrex with either a 90mm or 100mm pulley


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thr ... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Assuming the use of a 70mm unit.Most Rotrex chargers leave Rotrex with either a 90mm or 100mm pulley

ok so a stock PG 144mm crank pully at 6500 rpm
90mm = 1.6:1 ratio = 10400 x 7.5 = 78000 charger impeller RPM
100mm= 1.4:1 ratio = 9100 x 7.5 = 68250 charger impeller RPM
on the 3.0l-6.0l charger flow chart 
90mm 78000 = 2.4 at 0.30 = .72kg/s = 10 psi
100mm 68250 =2.0 at 0.25= 5.0kg/s = 7psi












_Modified by REPOMAN at 8:50 PM 2-1-2009_


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## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thr ... (REPOMAN)*

the boost is going to depend on how much air the engine can suck down ass well as the rpm the blower is going to be turning.
The rotrex maps should read just like a turbo compressor map, but you have to have an idea of how much power you are going to make. In the case of a pg, we'll assume 200 crank hp. Convert estimated HP to airflow and it'll give you a better idea of the pressure ratio and rpm that the unit will have to run.


_Modified by jwatts at 9:04 AM 2-2-2009_


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## Flying Squirrell (Oct 18, 2009)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger Thread - KITS , TECH & FAQ (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_What kind of boost pressure and heat will we see from these chargers?
if we have a OEM crank pully of 5 3/4" = 146mm
and the smallest Rotrex charger pully is 70mm
then that makes it a 2.0:1 engine rpm to charger rpm ratio
that means on a PG engine i would see 6500rpm = 13000
on a built engine i could see 8000rpm = 16000
that would mean the charger input shaft will be spinning 
13000rpm or 16000rpm
at 1:7.5 impeller ratio on your largest charger
that equals 97500rpm or 112000rpm
on the C38-61 the flow chart shows a 3.6 - 4.6 pressure ratio

1 psi = 0.7031 grams/square millimetre
at the maxime Charger RPM at 0.40 kg/S 
x 3.6 = 1.44 kg 0r 1.4 bar =20psi
x 4.6 = 1.84 kg or 1.8 bar =26psi
the C38-71 shows at max rpm a 0.45 kg/s
x 4.6 = 2.07kg or 2.0 bar = 29psi
this looks good*BUT* the flow chart shows 115000 rpm 
were the ad says 90,000 rpm Maximum Impeller Speed
*NOTE 90,000 RPM limit*
so in relality 0.40 kg/s
x 2.8 = 1.12 kg or 1.0 bar = 15.9 psi
This is the largest Rotrex charger on the charts provided
after doing the math on all that data provided i still don't know what 
the thermal dynamics are? how hot is the charged air?








ok so a stock PG 144mm crank pully at 6500 rpm
90mm = 1.6:1 ratio = 10400 x 7.5 = 78000 charger impeller RPM
100mm= 1.4:1 ratio = 9100 x 7.5 = 68250 charger impeller RPM
on the 3.0l-6.0l charger flow chart 
90mm 78000 = 2.4 at 0.30 = .72kg/s = 10 psi
100mm 68250 =2.0 at 0.25= 5.0kg/s = 7psi









Repoman I respect and trust your word because of the great things you have done.
I have been trying to figure out how much boost the Rotrex put out and was confused by your very valid sounding math, when I came across a mistake you made in the conversion of Kg/s (kilograms per second) and confusing it with “1 psi = 0.7031 grams/square millimeter”
Here in the spec sheet is the conversion, 1 Kg/s x 1731.8 = CFM link
.40kg/s = 691 cfm! And .72kg/s = 1247 CFM!!








Looking at the middle housing with the biggest compressor, C30-94 with a max impeller rpm of 10k and drive ratio of 1:9.49 Using a 100mm pulley 7000 rpm gets an impeller speed of 95659 (100K)
75% line crosses 100k rpm @ .28kg/s and 2.7 pressure ratio








Using this data and this Calculator I get this.
















I might have made a wrong assumption somewhere, so please correct me. 
If I did the math correct 25 psi and 330 hp! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









edit: oops i used a 2 liter


_Modified by Flying Squirrell at 5:01 PM 10-25-2009_


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## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Flying Squirrell)*

Keeping an eye on this... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (G'D60)*

I emailed you guys about your setup (1.9l corrado), I was wondering where are you guys located at?


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Flying Squirrell)*

Wow it has been awhile since i wrapped my mind around this. I am sure i was as 
thorough with my numbers as i could be.
I believe i got the Conversion table from a Collage website.
if these will produce 25psi thats great. i can't wait to see some Dyno # on a 
1.8 8v or a 2.0l 8v or a 1.8 16v 2.0l 16v 1.8 20v. anything in the VW stable
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
1 kilogram/square millimetre = 1422.32 psi : 1 psi = 0.7031 grams/square millimetre



_Modified by REPOMAN at 7:29 PM 10-28-2009_


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## Flying Squirrell (Oct 18, 2009)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_ i can't wait to see some Dyno # on a 
1.8 8v or a 2.0l 8v or a 1.8 16v 2.0l 16v 1.8 20v. anything in the VW stable
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

ME TOO! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_1 kilogram/square millimetre = 1422.32 psi : 1 psi = 0.7031 grams/square millimetre 

Yes but rotrex specifications dont use kilograms/square mm (measure of pressure)
they use Kg/s = kilograms per second (measure of mass flow rate)


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## Nine2cg60 (May 5, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Flying Squirrell)*

Subscribed... and waiting for results


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Nine2cg60)*

Holy crap that's expensive. I wish companies would realize it's less attractive now that the cost of such an upgrade costs 3x what I paid for my G60 to begin with.
Cool deal I guess, I just wish it was 10 years earlier. I'd seen a few other Rotrex G60's over the years. They were about the same power wise as any of the other retrofit kits out there. In the end, no matter what form of boost, you're still stuck with the same CFM potential as any SOHC 8V. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I still think if someone posted up the specs for brackets to mount the M90, that's the best value out there. The blower alone is $250 all day long, and it would cost well under $1000 to get everything dialed in. Trouble is, anytime someone makes brackets, they either horde all the info and keep it secret, or they try to get rich off of it and sell 2 little chunks of aluminum for $900. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (L8 APEKS)*

Well I kind of agree with ya L8, I paid 2k for my rado an this charger setup is going to cost me more than my car







. But given this thing replaces a bracket and is included in the kit, the s/c, and everything else for the swap and is "only" 2600, that doesn't seem to bad given other charger setups *cough*lysholm*cough* cost ~400 more and net the same power as this kit SHOULD but only include a charger, pulley and a belt. Plus the rotrex charger is quite which is great IMHO cause it makes able to net the power we want but be quite for a daily drive.
Price is kind of







for the car it goes on (cause the cars are obviously getting older and getting cheaper to boot), but compared to any other setup (minus the turbo application, and who honestly wants to replace the s/c for a turbo anyways







) this is prolly the best solution for price to replace the G60 which will eventually catch up in price of this kit.
I honestly can't wait to see the numbers and would love to test one on my car *hint hint*







cause I hate replacing a charger ever 10-20k miles cause it gets exspensive QUICK. But that's my


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## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (drkreign)*

To bad the USA is a very long swim otherwise my engine would they ultimate 8V 1825cc testcase.


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (drkreign)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drkreign* »_ other charger setups *cough*lysholm*cough* cost ~400 more

Yeah, I'm not sure why BBM raised their prices. It used to cost 2600 for the kit. Though, used Lysholm kits usually go for 1500 or so, which is nearly $1000 less than the Rotrex setup, and more efficient (albeit louder).
Do a search for dynos, there's been Rotrex Corrados that have dyno'd before. They've been around longer than the lysholms have. Numbers are about the same as everything else from what I remember.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (L8 APEKS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L8 APEKS* »_
I still think if someone posted up the specs for brackets to mount the M90, that's the best value out there. The blower alone is $250 all day long, and it would cost well under $1000 to get everything dialed in. Trouble is, anytime someone makes brackets, they either horde all the info and keep it secret, or they try to get rich off of it and sell 2 little chunks of aluminum for $900. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Sorry but your logic is flawed a little bit...especially with respect to Rotrex knowledge of the past and current.
You really think an Eaton (Heaton as it is more commonly known in the supercharger world) is the best value out there? I disagree nicely....unless you sit down infront of ebay for an entire year and pick up everyone single M90 unit (or similar) then you WILL be forking over $2000+ for a new OEM unit.
If you want to be an enthusiast and share information then by all means go right ahead as I am sure many people would LOVE to have that information from you.You let me know what your time is worth....
I have posted this before and I will post this again,for many advertisers on here this IS our bread and butter so we have to look @ every hour that goes by in the day as a means of collecting $X/hour.
Lets say I would like to be paid $20 USD/hour to develop a supercharger kit and it takes me lets say 60 hours to develop it.That is 1200 USD of development costs that have to be incorporated into the sale of the kits.Lets say I develop 10 kits,that means each person will pay the following:
* Cost of supercharger
* Cost of materials needed to mount it
* $120 development cost
* Mark up to cover overheads.
Very few people actually understand the aftermarket performance business model.
There are many people out there that will pay for quality and infact I have been doing my best to grow the rotrex application library.So far we have:
* ABA 16V
* 9A 16V
* ABA 8V
* AEB 20V
* 06A 20V
Now if you are wondering why the PG G60 kit is not done is due to the simple reason that I UNDERSTAND that most G60 owners do not want to spend $3000+ on a charger kit so I have been revising the kit as many times as possible to get the cheapest configuration done IF we did move to production.That has been one of the major hold ups...
If you want me to spend $250USD of your money, send me the charger you would like and I will develop a kit for you. You will own all the drawings and development material.Lets see if you want to make it happen.


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Issam Abed)*

I have searched and haven't found any real data on the WHP numbers on a Rotrex setup for any VW4cyl.
after searching the web the only thing i found was on the 
ORZ website stating 195WHP @ 16psi. I believe this is highly suspect 
due to the other inflated numbers they show on the web site on other
known setups.
Seems like alot of effort for a Obsolete engine plateform.
in the day of VVTI, MIVEC, and other modern engine technoligy where
little bolt on mods are producing 350+whp it seems an excersize in 
engineering over common sence.
A modern engine swap seems the most cost effective way to get 
the most performance.

















_Modified by REPOMAN at 4:34 PM 11-1-2009_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (REPOMAN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *REPOMAN* »_
Seems like alot of effort for a Obsolete engine plateform.

As much as I agree with you, you have to remember we represent a very small % of VAG owners across the globe.
The G60 engine ie STILL very much alive in Europe with parts being developed everyday.Unfortuantely I have come to realise that developing parts to sell 2-5 at a time is no way to grow a company.


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Issam Abed)*

Plus doing a complete motor swap (unless you hold all the parts you've gathered for years) costs the same or more depending on how much you do. This kit shouldn't take very long to install and for the most part just about anyone can install it (with a lil know how of course).
@ 16 PSI *IF* it's creating ~195 Whp that isn't to bad for this motor. Figure it this way, the lysholm full stage 4 creates ~225 whp according to their site. But most people have placed much lower on that setup, most I have read they end up creating ~195-200 hp. So for this kit you get just as much HP as the lysholm or a VR6 (stock) but don't have the whine of the lysholm OR the price/headache of doing a complete motor swap. To me, that seems like a good combination.
Sam, you NEED to bring this kit out, there are alot of people that want this








__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view


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## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (drkreign)*

Doing 256whp with the old Gchager, I hope a Rotrex can beat this number?


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (GTI1-G60)*

Not likly to beat 256whp. i only made 236whp on the 8v w/ digi and
i don't think it is going to beat that either.
that being said it is still another option then not having one. 
the Gladders are fewer and fewer and the Lysholm 2087 is no longer.
I believe there is going to be a new option for bolt on replacement for
the G60 in the near future from an old trusted tuner.


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (drkreign)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drkreign* »_
@ 16 PSI *IF* it's creating ~195 Whp that isn't to bad for this motor. Figure it this way, the lysholm full stage 4 creates ~225 whp according to their site. But most people have placed much lower on that setup, most I have read they end up creating ~195-200 hp. 

Stage 4 Lysholm doesn't make anywhere NEAR 225whp. 225 CRANK HP is more like it. I drove mine in that state for years and dyno'd more than once...at sea level, in cool weather.
If the same margin of error can be expected between advertised and actual power on the rotrex, then...I'm keeping my G-Lader, thanks.








The only similar comparison I can find displacement-wise is the Lotus Exige S...it's a 1.8L with a rotrex supercharger @ 7.25psi. However, it also has variable valve timing and lift (Toyota 2ZZ engine). It makes 218 crank HP on that far more advanced 1.8L @ 7.25psi. On our dinosaurs, I would expect significantly less gain...the 2ZZ engine has a compression ratio of 11.5 to 1, compared to the G60's 8 to 1.
As for the Eaton...it's value is contingent on the owner's goals. If you're looking for a more reliable replacement than the G-Lader, then yes - it's the best value, period.
If you're looking to shatter WHP records, then obviously no, it isn't.
REPOMAN said it best I think. A lot of effort, in a very poor economy, to a group known for being cheap to begin with, on an antiquated powerplant! I applaud your effort and your enthusiasm, but you gotta put it in reach of the common G60 owner, most of which are no older than 24 years old!
(I'm older, but no more better off financially than most teenagers unfortunately.)








Make the M90 kit, and price it under $1200 for everything EXCEPT the charger itself. I would bet you even money that you'll sell FAR MORE of those kits than you will the rotrex.
As a matter of fact, price it under $1000 and I would personally buy one. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by L8 APEKS at 9:19 AM 11-2-2009_


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (L8 APEKS)*

Just checked BBM and they say 225+ hp on a stage 4 lysholm (doesn't say wheel or crank) I just assumed whp, but if the dyno's you were on show far below this then that is crank hp that BBM has posted and at 225 (calculating a 15% drop in power for crank to the wheels) means the lysholm makes ~192whp. Which if that is the case and these kits will produce the same numbers as the lysholm it seems like a no brainer to me (personally).
Rotrex:
No loud noises
makes same power as lysholm
doesn't need rebuilt like gladder does (least not as frequent)
just as efficient as a gladder
What more could you ask for? I mean the price is still high on the kit listed for most of the people on this forum, but, as Sam mentioned the cost to design the setup, plus everything he's selling you, it really seems like the price is very competitive.


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (drkreign)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drkreign* »_
Rotrex:
No loud noises
*makes same power as lysholm*
doesn't need rebuilt like gladder does (least not as frequent)
*just as efficient as a gladder*

 
The lysholm twin screw is the most efficient supercharger on the market - over 80% volumetric and adiabatic efficiency. The G60 doesn't come close to that (60% range IIRC?). So there's a big gap in the middle!
Although the Rotrex is just as efficient as the Lysholm (both blow the G60 out of the water), I'm not sure how to compare them, because the Rotrex essentially a belt-driven turbocharger, with impeller speeds of over 200,000 RPM. It's centrifugal, which means it will not provide the low-RPM boost of the (positive displacement) Lysholm. It should build boost more akin to a turbocharger (more dependent on RPM's).








The Rotrex seems like a very cool unit...but it's just so far out of range for 99% of the G60 enthusiasts here. If someone has the means, pick one up...I have a feeling it will work very well if you've got deep enough pockets!
According to the compressor maps on the Rotrex, it should support enough flow to make over 200whp, depending on which family of charger you're using (C15 is the smallest I think...and up from there). The limiting factor usually isn't the form of forced induction though...I think people fail to break the 200whp mark because of lack of overall airflow (need headwork with the G60 setups because it's not as efficient).
OP...I hope you get some video of a G60 on the dyno with this thing! Please be honest and up front with the modifications on the test car so we have an idea of real world numbers! Let's see some video!
PS...the old Rotrex videos that I used to be able to find maybe 8 years ago are no more...but IIRC, they were using the C15 unit, NOT the C30 unit. If that's the case, this kit (using the C30) should surpass 200whp without a problem.











_Modified by L8 APEKS at 11:12 AM 11-2-2009_


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## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (L8 APEKS)*

The photo is an old style Rotrex.
They have improved check there site for the new internal setup.
There is a company developing a new Gchager unit.
http://www.ausleidenschaft.de/
It's in german and a crappy flash demo. But worth the waiting.

Still interested in what the new Rotrex could do on my engine.
Problem I face is the lack of details how to compare a G60 vs Rotex unit.
In my case G60 with 60mm wheel max 8200rpm VS Rotrex.


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## The Green (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (GTI1-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI1-G60* »_Doing 256whp with the old Gchager, I hope a Rotrex can beat this number?


Whats wrong with shipping?
I ship and receive quite a lot from/to the US and is simple as hel.
Issam is a very cool guy to deal with.
My drysump, alternator setup, turbo collector, oil canister with integrated catch tank,... comes from INA
If power is not what is expected with the future setup then I will most likely order a rotrex too


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## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (The Green)*

Shipping is not a problem, 80% if my engine internals are from the USA.
But making a right choice is.


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (The Green)*

The problem will always be that the gladder inefficient compared to the other chargers and the fact they shred themselves in a short amount of time when you pull power from them. So unless this new setup up's the efficiency of the charger AND makes it last longer (or forever







) the other chargers are still a better choice, which sucks cause I personally like the Gladder, quite and a powerful setup for what it is. But are there any release dates on the new gladder?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (L8 APEKS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L8 APEKS* »_ I'm not sure how to compare them, because the Rotrex essentially a belt-driven turbocharger, with impeller speeds of over 200,000 RPM. It's centrifugal, which means it will not provide the low-RPM boost of the (positive displacement) Lysholm. It should build boost more akin to a turbocharger (more dependent on RPM's).









If you are not sure how to compare them then why are you still posting about a supercharger you have no clue about? The image you posted is a rotrex unit from the late 90's...
welcome to 2010. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Issam Abed)*

I have purchased items from INA Engineering and have had great service.
I am not looking to go Rotrex SC but i would like more information about it like many others.
Morbid curiosity


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_








If you are not sure how to compare them then why are you still posting about a supercharger you have no clue about? The image you posted is a rotrex unit from the late 90's...
welcome to 2010. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Sounds like you misunderstood me. It's comparing apples to butt plugs...they have similar efficiency but operate in completely different ways. One is a supercharger with positive displacement, the other is a belt-driven centrifugal turbocharger.
Oh, PS...the SOHC engine you're tuning is from the 70's. Welcome to 2010. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (L8 APEKS)*

Both of you are wrong.....welcome to 09, don't speed up time any faster than it is goin already








My thing is that this charger gives our platform a different option. I know for ALOT of guys on here they didn't run the lysholm cause it has a whine that's annoying for long hauls (which people still do in their rados). This eliminates that issue and still nets power.
Plus, besides a custom turbo setup, the only direct bolt on setup was the lysholm, which, gives BBM the right to charge a higher rate cause unless you want to rebuild a Gladder all the time that is the only other choice. Which, as we learned in economics, one reason for higher prices is a Monopoly which BBM has on performance chargers. Competition may start to help prices drop.
Now with all that said WHEN IS THIS BIATCH GUNNA BE OUT?!?!?! And more importanly, when can I get one on MY car?!?!?!


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: INA Engineering : Official VWVortex Rotrex Supercharger ... (drkreign)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drkreign* »_
Now with all that said WHEN IS THIS BIATCH GUNNA BE OUT?!?!?! And more importanly, when can I get one on MY car?!?!?!

I'm eagerly awaiting dynos!


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## vw leben (May 17, 2008)

10 Months later, Where are the installed (Test) pics?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (vw leben)*









this?


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_








this?

No...I think we were hoping for an install and a dyno test on a G60 (PG) engine, since this is the G60 forum and not the 1.8/2.0 16V forum...


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

thats mine, want to donate $ for dyno time?


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## REPOMAN (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (Rocco R16V)*

Thats a pretty clean looking setup. nicely done.
Can you answer a few questions?
What Engine magament?
What size Injectors? 
How many RPMs
Which Rotrex chargeris that?
and
How much boost are you getting?


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: (Rocco R16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocco R16V* »_thats mine, want to donate $ for dyno time?









You don't spend $6,000+ on an engine, and then not have a couple hundred left to actually tune it on a dyno.


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: (REPOMAN)*

Thanks repoman
that is a test fit and sort plumbing pic its not finished.
Its an ABA 16V 9:1 comp
034EFI IC
42 LBS
8000 RPM
C30-94
I havent run it yet








Im waiting on a trans and time to work on it, working out of state makes it hard to find time. 
when its done and ive had some time to tune it, the car will go on the dyno.


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: (L8 APEKS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L8 APEKS* »_You don't spend $6,000+ on an engine, and then not have a couple hundred left to actually tune it on a dyno.









Well I do have a budget so after spending so much money on the charger there’s no more left for the car (this year). Plus any time on the dyno is time I have to take off work which makes it more than a couple hundred. 
I was just saying if you want answers now, put up some cash.








I really didn’t choose this form of boost to be the first or a test bed, I just thought it would be perfect for what I want out of my car.


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: (Rocco R16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocco R16V* »_
I was just saying if you want answers now, put up some cash.









We, as the customers, don't have to put up any cash at all. The burden of proof is on the vendor, not on the customer.








I'm saying...if the OP wants our business[/] now, put up some test results on the actual platform you're advertising the part for! THEN advertise them for that platform!
You'll get more interest that way...


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (L8 APEKS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L8 APEKS* »_
You'll get more interest that way...









I really am not looking for interest currently.I am actually considering locking this thread as it is a year old and I do not have all the data I would like to release.


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I really am not looking for interest currently.I am actually considering locking this thread as it is a year old and I do not have all the data I would like to release.

My corrado jus leaked oil on the ground, now either it jus took a pee, or it's crying. and given it didn't do that til you left that message I'm gunna say it's the latter. Do you reeeeeeeally wanna break the ol' girls heart?







< to you sir if you do.


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: (drkreign)*

She's just marking her spot.


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## vw leben (May 17, 2008)

*Re: (L8 APEKS)*








ok...


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## g-LOWDER (May 21, 2003)

*Re: (JBETZ)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JBETZ* »_
rotrex set ups for the pg g60 have been around for many many years now. are you doing up a new set up or reviving an older one? ive had a couple customers with this blower set bring their cars to our shop for tuning and repairs. looking forward to seeing your data and pics of this set up.

Sorry for jumping in late and don't mean to beat dead horses from the 90's but:
*TEC* used this in their featured AWD Leguna-Seca-Blue Corrado and called it a *turmat*.(_showing my age_)
*EIP* had one installed in Gunner's car and their featured silver bug (_personally looked at engine bay_).
So, what, if any are the differences in design from then to now


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## g-LOWDER (May 21, 2003)

*Re: (g-LOWDER)*

Yeah, Yeah, i'm old(_I go all the way back to European Car magazine_) but,
I want to know more about this, you know, good stuff like.............
does it spool up quicker, more efficient/cfms, how it's better than the 90's version................


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: (g-LOWDER)*

Idk the specs or anything on it but the original poster/company doesn't really do much with this post for some reason. Honestly I don't expect them to release it, and if they do it will not be any time soon. I emailed them about 2 weeks ago and they said kits would be ready in ~6 weeks but on here they said "I really am not looking for interest currently.I am actually considering locking this thread as it is a year old and I do not have all the data I would like to release.".
I really wish we could get more info, specially since the company created the post in the beginning, you shooooooould follow through, or say entirely "this isn't going to happen, sorry". I honestly hope this comes together, would rather have this than the lysholm for many reasons, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## The Green (Oct 5, 2002)

*Re: (drkreign)*

It will, just be patient


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: (drkreign)*


_Quote, originally posted by *drkreign* »_Idk the specs or anything on it but the original poster/company doesn't really do much with this post for some reason. Honestly I don't expect them to release it, and if they do it will not be any time soon. I emailed them about 2 weeks ago and they said kits would be ready in ~6 weeks but on here they said "I really am not looking for interest currently.I am actually considering locking this thread as it is a year old and I do not have all the data I would like to release.".
I really wish we could get more info, specially since the company created the post in the beginning, you shooooooould follow through, or say entirely "this isn't going to happen, sorry". I honestly hope this comes together, would rather have this than the lysholm for many reasons, but I'm not holding my breath.










Why the negativity? INA in the original post wasn’t releasing anything, he was asking for creative people with the time, car and money to help him develop his Rotrex charger kits, the bigger companies who have cars to test on and employees to spend hours doing the necessary research and fitment work can do this in house, but INA decided to utilize the knowledge and experience from the do-it –yourself types.
It is unfortunate that more people wouldn’t try something new and help Sam get these kits to market faster. The reality is people who have a car, the money, time, and the courage to try something new have other things in their lives that prevent them from having all these things at once. There will be results and eventually a kit will be released. Be patient or put up the things necessary to get results faster.
As for dyno results its really just a number it doesn’t tell you everything about haw a motor/car combo works on the track/street. I don’t need a dyno to tune and would only put my car on one after I am satisfied I have a good tune already. I like to take my time and make sure everything is right so when I do go spend money on dyno time it’s not wasted.
The Rotrex will be worth the wait.
Thanks Issam http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for creating these kits (even it does take longer than anyone expected)


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## drkreign (Sep 2, 2005)

*Re: (Rocco R16V)*

I think your confusing negativity for disappointment. Cause while I understand and appreciate what Ina is doing with using regular folks cars to develope the setup It is disappointing to see that a year after posting the message there is no real updates from the company. Almost everything is speculation from Tex members. Which to me it would seem like if you're creating a product and post up a message recruiting members to test a product them you should of already had a "generic" setup in developement ready to go. Now I'm no idiot so I know the original has been tweaked since it started which takes time to have changed and all that. But what gets me is there's no updates from the company.
Please don't think this message is ment as a bash, I truly want this setup on my car (I even sent a email to use my car but got no response......). I just think there should be a company update, maybe not a dyno, but a "hey, this is what's happening". So as I've stated in MANY posts on here I hope an pray this kit comes out and would LOVE to have my car used to test this setup cause I'm real close to buying a lysholm this month, but would rather have the rotrex. Either way I hope we hear some good news.


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: (drkreign)*

:wave:


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## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)




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## efritsch (Aug 21, 2002)

Really? You bumped a 2.5 year old thread for a smiley face?


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## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

efritsch said:


> Really? You bumped a 2.5 year old thread for a smiley face?


yes.


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