# Front Lower Ball Joints won’t separate



## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

So I started working on replacing the front upper & lower control arm bushings earlier this week. Everything went fine so far, all the CA mounting bolts came loose fine, even the infamous pinchbolt at the upper CAs came out without a problem (probably because this Phaeton has been in California since new). However, the ball joints of the lower CAs won’t separate and are holding me up.

My original plan was to not remove the brake rotor/caliper/driveshaft and use ball joint separators and pullers to get the ball joints off. First I planned on using either a fork-style separator or a tool similar to the T40010 Ball joint puller mentioned in the Bentley manual. Turns out the forks on the fork-style separator are too long and I can’t get it in there good enough. Then I tried the T40010 style separator but it’s not an exact fit for this ball joint and even though I tightened it down pretty hard I wasn’t able to get the ball joint to pop. Now I’ve been soaking the ball joints with PBlaster to and using a hammer on the rearward CA ball joint (that one will be replaced with a new one) but still no success.

Member twgin has already given me some good advice but he removed the wheel bearing housing from the car so he had a lot better access to the top of the ball joint. Can somebody who did this with the wheel bearing housing, brake parts and axle in place, give me some advice, special tricks or procedures? I don’t really want to heat up the wheel bearing housing (I believe it’s aluminum) but I’m thinking of using one of those freeze sprays on the threaded part of the ball joint to see if it contracts enough to pop out. I’d also like to hear if it would be easier to drop the CA out of the subframe mounting bracket, maybe a little less tension on the ball joint that way?!

At this point I’m even considering buying the special T40010 tool if somebody can confirm that it fits onto the Phaeton ball joints. I looked it up and it’s actually a Snap-on tool but it’s out of stock on their  website. Anybody know another source for this?

Btw, here’s the T40010 tool as shown in the repair manual:


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## trogdor1138 (Apr 13, 2015)

I haven't done this exact job, but having recently tried to replace the upper control arms, when I next need to do anything control arm-related I'm planning on removing the entire housing from the car.

That being said, the factory procedure for doing so indicates releasing the ball joint before the pivot bolt at the other end. Additionally, to remove the bolt the subframe has to be lowered I believe, and since that's the only camber adjustment I would definitely consider an alignment afterward if you weren't already. There may be well-known tricks to avoid these issues, but that's what VW says.

As a suggestion, would a bearing puller set possibly fit in there? Something from Harbor Freight for instance? The silver halves would go between the housing and control arm, while the press bolt would drive down on the ball joint pin from above.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

I have something like the tool shown above; haven't used it on a Phaeton but on other vehicles. A tight ball joint will still take a lot of torque on the tool to pop it loose, so much so that there is fear the tool might break first. What may help is using the tool to put pressure on the ball joint. Then strike the knuckle with a hammer or drift to deform the conical seat and it should pop loose with ease. I refrain from using heat. Good luck.

Damon


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

trogdor1138 said:


> That being said, the factory procedure for doing so indicates releasing the ball joint before the pivot bolt at the other end. Additionally, to remove the bolt the subframe has to be lowered I believe, and since that's the only camber adjustment I would definitely consider an alignment afterward if you weren't already. There may be well-known tricks to avoid these issues, but that's what VW says.


I still got the pivot bolt in holding the CA in place. It's actually the pivot bolt for the lower forward CA that doesn't come out, however it's easy to cut with a saws-all and then install a new bolt form the other side. Alignment will definitely be done once I got this job finished.



trogdor1138 said:


> As a suggestion, would a bearing puller set possibly fit in there? Something from Harbor Freight for instance? The silver halves would go between the housing and control arm, while the press bolt would drive down on the ball joint pin from above.


Not enough access from above to get to the pin from above. Here's how this setup looks like with the ball joint separator I'm currently using:


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

dlouie said:


> I have something like the tool shown above; haven't used it on a Phaeton but on other vehicles. A tight ball joint will still take a lot of torque on the tool to pop it loose, so much so that there is fear the tool might break first. What may help is using the tool to put pressure on the ball joint. Then strike the knuckle with a hammer or drift to deform the conical seat and it should pop loose with ease. I refrain from using heat. Good luck.


I'm using the Harbor Freight version of this tool (the only similar tool I could find locally) but the opening height is not large enough for the fork to be level between the wheel bearing housing. Therefore the tool doesn't push exactly straight down on the ball joint pin and I'm afraid I might bent the top of the pin. I already put a lot of torque on it and keep it on overnight while soaking with PBlaster. Also tried the hammer method to strike the housing and the control arm with the separator pushing down on it but still no go. Will keep trying for another day or so before I'll look into removing the whole assembly. I'm really trying to avoid that though.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

I think that the tool is not installed in all the way; not seated correctly at the base. Make sure it is inserted all the way and that the threads and pivots of the tool are greased. That tool should get it off. Don't be afraid to torque it. Wear gloves and glasses. When it lets go, there'll be a big pop!

Damon


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

You're right Damon. I took a closer look this morning and the opening in the fork is not wide enough to slide the fork all the way in. I ended up enlarging the opening by grinding away some material, got the fork all the way in and sure enough the ball joint finally let go. One done, three more to go. I'll do the other ones later today and will report back.


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## twgin (Apr 25, 2012)

I'll bet that was a very nice pop ! when that let go ! Good job !


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Got the other three to pop this afternoon, glad to be done with that. If someone attempts this in the future they will either have to buy the T40010 tool per the manual or go to Harbor Freight and buy the Pittsburgh Automotive 3/4" forged ball joint separator #99849 for about $20. However, the opening needs to be enlarged to approximately 22.5 mm to fit the lower rearward control arm ball joint stud and 25.2 mm for the lower forward control arm ball joint. This permits the fork to seat correctly and the ball joint will pop with relative ease but a lot of bang 

Here's how the tool looks like after I modified it:



















Here's how I used it on the forward CA ball joint (first loosen the rubber seal as not to damage it when sliding the fork in!):


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

How good does that feel now they're out???


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Felt great to finally have those out! Fortunately this is not my daily driver so I'm not under pressure to get this project finished by a certain time. Now it's on to figuring out how to support the wheel bearing housing while I take the upper CA arms off and how to get to that third upper air strut bracket bolt on the RH side that sits right below the heavy duty battery cables.


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Put a floor jack underneath it.

Damon


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Did that already to support the weight of the assembly but once I take the upper CAs off I'll need to prevent the whole wheelbearing housing assembly with the rotors/calipers still attached from tipping forward/outward. Working on rigging up some straps to tie it to the frame.


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## peter_3259 (Nov 8, 2021)

Phaetonlvr said:


> I still got the pivot bolt in holding the CA in place. It's actually the pivot bolt for the lower forward CA that doesn't come out, however it's easy to cut with a saws-all and then install a new bolt form the other side. Alignment will definitely be done once I got this job finished.
> 
> 
> 
> Not enough access from above to get to the pin from above. Here's how this setup looks like with the ball joint separator I'm currently using:


 THANK YOU PHAETONLVR. I just changed my lower control arms and your Harbor Freight 'tool' worked perfectly.

The other PERFECT TRICK was to have the Sawzall ready to cut the inner bolt off so it can with withdrawn. Then replace it with a fresh one.

The final thing I noticed was that my replacement needed the roll bar link bolt hole drilled out to match the larger bolt on a Phaeton. CHECK THIS before installing!

I didnt need to touch the upper strut or upper control arms as you can withdraw the lower control arm as follows:

1. Set Phaeton to "Jack Mode" and jack. Turn wheel full lock towards side of car being worked on.
2. Undo air spring nipple at air spring to release air.
3. Remove outer control arm ball joint nut (21mm and long bar). Crack open ball join using modified Harbor Freight tool as above.
4. On the lower control arm remove Air Strut bolt (18mm), roll bar link bolt (18mm), ride height arm (10mm).
5. Loosen inner control arm bolt (18mm) and drive bolt out until it hits subframe. Cutoff bolt head with Sawzall. Then remove remains of bolt.
6. Slide air strut fork inwards then use lever on upper control arms to force suspension downwards. You should be able to remove entire lower control arm.
7. Replace with new arm and refit bolts including new inner control arm bolt. Check bolt diameter of roll bar link fits your control arm.

Total job time is about 1 hour once you get the hang of it. Initially I removed the brake, brake carrier and disk however turned out not to be necessary. Ride is noticeably better with no "clunking" now on corrugated roads.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

peter_3259 said:


> THANK YOU PHAETONLVR. I just changed my lower control arms and your Harbor Freight 'tool' worked perfectly.


You are welcome! I wrote that in 2015 when I was new to Phaetons and have done a total of 5 complete front suspension rebuilds since then and the tool comes in handy every single time.


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## peter_3259 (Nov 8, 2021)

Phaetonlvr said:


> You are welcome! I wrote that in 2015 when I was new to Phaetons and have done a total of 5 complete front suspension rebuilds since then and the tool comes in handy every single time.


 I didnt yet replace the rear lower control arms, only the front lowers. Do the inner bolts on the rear lowers need the Sawzall treatment as well?


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

peter_3259 said:


> I didnt yet replace the rear lower control arms, only the front lowers. Do the inner bolts on the rear lowers need the Sawzall treatment as well?


Are you talking about the lower rear CA on the front suspension or the rear suspension? I've never done a rear suspension rebuild but on the front, the bolt for the lower rear CA comes out without cutting but access is a little limited especially on the RH side due to the fuel lines running right by it.


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## peter_3259 (Nov 8, 2021)

OK yes, was talking about front suspension. Good to know I won't need new bolts. Thanks for your help again. 

If you're ever interested, my Phaeton is a 2005 Coucou grey V8 with the 4 seat interior.


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## Phaetonlvr (Feb 26, 2013)

Very nice! My first Phaeton was also a 2005 Coucou Grey V8 but with the 5-seat interior. My current V8 is an '05 triple black with the 4-seater interior.


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