# Forge FMIC or APR FMIC???



## 96AAAjetta (Jul 7, 2008)

So i've done some research and cant find anything helpful as far as our cars are concerned. Which is better Forge or APR? I'm not really worried about trimming the bumper, or deleting the aliens which I was planning on doing anyway, or the price. I'm just interested in which one actually works better. Which one has seen lowest IAT's (which is obvi. relative to ambient air temp), and which allows good air flow-through to keep the radiator happy? Who here has seen one of the two work really good or really bad? I'm assuming that either will be a good buy but bang for the buck is key. Anybody got any good helpful input? As always it's greatly appreciated.


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## Vdub 2.0 (Jan 8, 2008)

neither... cts http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/products/CTS_MKI_TT225Q_1_8T_FMIC_Kit-254-0.html 

or just go custom and buy cincy pipes and a good core :thumbup: good luck with whatever you end up doing


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## 96AAAjetta (Jul 7, 2008)

Actually CTS is my fallback. If i cant come up with a convincing argument to persuade myself to drop coin on an APR or Forge piece then ill save the $$$ and get a CTS unit.


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## Vdub 2.0 (Jan 8, 2008)

I had looked into getting a forged one before i purchased mine, and I was told by a few people it wouldnt be able to handle a big turbo so i would assume the apr is better. but what do i know I still think the cts one would be the best option. :thumbup: I'm sure youll get some more info once a few more people chim in


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## chaldowhiteboy (Jun 14, 2010)

honestly, as long as you don't go with an ebay one, you will be getting your money's worth. cts, forge, or apr, it doesn't matter. they're all really good. at that point i would go with the cheapest from the three.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2005)

Iv'e personally run 400 to the wheel using our tt cooler.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/ . For the money, I have yet to see anything thats any better. I spent just over $500 on mine.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Eric(Warranty), which treadstone int are you using? TR6? Also, how did you do your piping? 

I've been toying the idea of buying TStone and putting my own kit together... maintaining the aliens and utilizing as many of the stock pipes as possible for now. Something similar to the CTS kit would be trick


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I got the tr8. Good for use up to 475hp, less than 2psi pressure drop, noticeably better flowing than the stock side mounts, for $250. Seems like a no brainer to me. 

http://www.treadstoneperformance.com/product.phtml?p=29&cat_key=63&prodname=TR8+Intercooler 

I got the pipes from Cincytt. They were his last pair.


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## Krissrock (Sep 10, 2005)

i've got the one from CTS...fit isn't perfect, but its in there...friggin huge


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Nice:beer: 

Yea the TS's seem like the way to go. I just wasn't sure if the TR8 would be too big. 

When they say 2psi pressure drop, what does that really mean(other than the obvious lol). Is that a 2psi loss in power??? 

Also, how much of a feelable difference does the front mount really make? Faster spool time? Cooler temps? What are the real benefits for those of us that arent running BTs??? 

Lastly... In my never ending effort to save costs on tuning the TT, I'm thinking about doing a limited run of custom piping for a FMIC on the 225 If I can pull it off, they will be 100% fit and will be able to hookup to any IC of your choice. I pretty much just want to design and build a way to fit the IC while retaining everything possible. And of course, it needs to be at a no-brainer price Would that be something of interest to you guys???


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## 96AAAjetta (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks guys. Guess im gonna save a little coin and go with a CTS like i planned from the start.



Krissrock said:


> i've got the one from CTS...fit isn't perfect, but its in there...friggin huge


When you say "fit isn't perfect" what exactly does that mean? What about it doesn't fit right?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

The only thing stopping people from upgrading to a nice FMIC on a budget is the pipes. Those that make pipes won't sell them to you unless you buy their core. Pretty lame. The treadstone tr6 & tr8 are better cores than the kinetic. You just need to find/make pipes. The prices of these kits are pretty inflated.


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## chaldowhiteboy (Jun 14, 2010)

warranty225cpe said:


> The only thing stopping people from upgrading to a nice FMIC on a budget is the pipes. Those that make pipes won't sell them to you unless you buy their core. Pretty lame. The treadstone tr6 & tr8 are better cores than the kinetic. You just need to find/make pipes. The prices of these kits are pretty inflated.


i think it should be pretty easy to find someone that makes pipes and just give them the dimensions. orrrrr you can get me the dimensions of the pipes you have installed to me and i can make a mock up of them on solidworks and get someone to make them


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I've got a guy to make them. I'm just not very excited about taking my pipes out to have my boy mock up sets. Would be pretty easy though.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

VroomTT said:


> Eric(Warranty), which treadstone int are you using? TR6? Also, how did you do your piping?
> 
> I've been toying the idea of buying TStone and putting my own kit together... maintaining the aliens and utilizing as many of the stock pipes as possible for now. Something similar to the CTS kit would be trick


You cant keep the aliens. And I think someone had a setup that just removed the smics and crossover pipe ways before "cts" but I can't remember who...


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> I've got a guy to make them. I'm just not very excited about taking my pipes out to have my boy mock up sets. Would be pretty easy though.


dont think cincy would be to happy about some one else taking his pipes and makeing reps! i know he was not happy when i did mine but i also did mine on my own... they are not the same but damn close!


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

20psi now said:


> dont think cincy would be to happy about some one else taking his pipes and makeing reps! i know he was not happy when i did mine but i also did mine on my own... they are not the same but damn close!


I really don't think he cares. If he did, he would probably still be making them. If he's not making them anymore, it's not like I would be competing with his product.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

I've been busy with cars and work. I did all the hard stuff, it takes no effort to reverse engineer something. Just look at OBX. I just don't like making them without having like 3 or 4 solid people willing to buy. If there is stil a demand, I can get on it.


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## 96AAAjetta (Jul 7, 2008)

cincyTT said:


> I've been busy with cars and work. I did all the hard stuff, it takes no effort to reverse engineer something. Just look at OBX. I just don't like making them without having like 3 or 4 solid people willing to buy. If there is stil a demand, I can get on it.


How much are we talking for a set. I might be very interested.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Why would keeping the aliens not be an option? Couldn't you just route the pipes where the sidemounts used to be? 

I believe the CTS kit said you could retain them... I could be wrong tho


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## cphillips (Dec 2, 2010)

96AAAjetta said:


> How much are we talking for a set. I might be very interested.


Second that.


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## M-Power M3 (Oct 15, 2007)

cphillips said:


> Second that.


third


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

VroomTT said:


> Why would keeping the aliens not be an option? Couldn't you just route the pipes where the sidemounts used to be?
> 
> I believe the CTS kit said you could retain them... I could be wrong tho


you do good sir but the aliens run down right where the pipes need to be if the intercooler has the in/out lets in the center of the tanks, i dont think you run in to a problem when you get a core that has the in/out let's on the bottom..


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I have a hard time justifying keeping the aliens. I used them once to make sure they worked. Then I ripped them out and sold them. Absolutley worthless IMO. But then again, I dont rally my car or live where there is mud or snow.


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## Nihuel (Mar 31, 2010)

Hey guys, check this out. As many other TTers out there, I'm planning on keeping my stock K04 because of obvious $ reasons as well as the super fast spool time and reliability. So, i'd like to do everything I can, on a budget, to make my semi-stock setup be as effective as possible. I'm thinking I wanna b just under 350HP to the crank. 125 over stock is plenty for me. Anyway, http://www.tyrolsport.com/index.php?p=product&id=239&parent=67 . Read the dyno testing write-up, its pretty cool. 

Yes, they are expensive BUT they may be a good option for those of us keeping our K04's and are interested in driving 'sleepers' as opposed to having an obvious front mount on display. 

The gains are substantial and theres no heat soak as per their testing. If I had the $ I think I'd prefer this over a front mount.

If only I could find upgraded sidemounts for less $.....


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## 96AAAjetta (Jul 7, 2008)

I plan on shooting my FMIC and tubing with a couple coats of flat black rattle can and calling it a day. A black intercooler hides nicely down there.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

96AAAjetta said:


> I plan on shooting my FMIC and tubing with a couple coats of flat black rattle can and calling it a day. A black intercooler hides nicely down there.


I would say no more than 1 THIN coat of radiator paint. Anything more, and I would be afraid to over do it.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

what are u guys talking about when u say aliens?


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

So the aliens can be retained as long as the in/outlets on the fmic are on the bottom... interesting:sly:

I also stumbled across this http://www.treadstoneperformance.co...+Intercooler+and+Pipe+Kit,+Turbonetics+*SALE*

It looks like this kit is based on the TR6(good to 400hp) and includes some piping. What I find useful here(aside from the $200 sale price) is that the piping this comes with has some similar bends, and with a bit of cutting and rewelding, could be a relatively cheap way to fab something together. Plus the in/outlets are low... Im thinking about it...


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

VroomTT said:


> So the aliens can be retained as long as the in/outlets on the fmic are on the bottom... interesting:sly:
> 
> I also stumbled across this http://www.treadstoneperformance.co...+Intercooler+and+Pipe+Kit,+Turbonetics+*SALE*
> 
> It looks like this kit is based on the TR6(good to 400hp) and includes some piping. What I find useful here(aside from the $200 sale price) is that the piping this comes with has some similar bends, and with a bit of cutting and rewelding, could be a relatively cheap way to fab something together. Plus the in/outlets are low... Im thinking about it...




Don't hold me to that, lol but I think so.. Also when you make the pipe you need to get it to sit as far down in to the bumper as you can, ill post picks later but you'll see with I mean, you can kinda see it in the side grill's on warranty's but ill post come close ups..


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Whoops... scratch that last idea... just realized the price for piping and core is way more...:facepalm:

Still interested in a kit i can use with a TR8 and maintain the aliens and a stock fitment...

btw the aliens are the headlight washers that pop out of the bumpers:thumbup:


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

Only way you have a slight chance of keeping the aliens is with 2" piping and that still may not work. I have mine setup so that the bottom of the core is even with the rad support. So it can really go any lower. Plus the aliens or headlight squirters block the path to the fmic along with the bumper.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Hmmm... i see that it's going to be complicated, but considering the space occupied by the side-mounts, there should be more than enough room to run the piping in that space:sly:

Think almost as if you were just going to plug a fmic between the two smic's(which would be nuts if it coud fit btw:laugh... just replace the sidemouts with piping. The space should be there. 

I'll try to dig up some specs...


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

Not sure what your not getting, but the fmic isn't the issue, it's the piping. To get the piping to the front, you have one path to get there and that is partially blocked by the aliens. You want a fmic, you lose them, simple enough.


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## 96AAAjetta (Jul 7, 2008)

Personally i don't really see any redeeming value to keep the aliens. If you do a good weekly or bi-monthly wash the headlights shouldn't ever get that dirty, and on road trips, if they are especially ridden with bug guts, just clean them off when you stop for gas. On the plus side, however, if you take them out, thats, say, 1.5-2 pounds weight savings minimum, and you can shave the doors on the front bumper, which i think looks super clean when done. But that's just my $.02.


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

96AAAjetta said:


> Personally i don't really see any redeeming value to keep the aliens. If you do a good weekly or bi-monthly wash the headlights shouldn't ever get that dirty, and on road trips, if they are especially ridden with bug guts, just clean them off when you stop for gas. On the plus side, however, if you take them out, thats, say, 1.5-2 pounds weight savings minimum, and you can shave the doors on the front bumper, which i think looks super clean when done. But that's just my $.02.


X2


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

i dont have pics of them when there on the car but the pipe runs damn near right where the oem intercoolers are! and all you need is a u/j bend and you can make one side so 100 bucks in pipe and you can make them on your own and powder coat them cheap!










this is the left side and above is the right side..



























now this is where you want to get them as low as you can so A. you dont see them in the side grills and B. like cincy sad you would have to do smaller pipe to try and keep the head light washers.. and there not clear but trying to show where the pipe sits in the bumper..



















any way you look at it them washers do nothen but get the headlights wet and just move dirt around, take them out and sell them or dich them....
i also think my intercooler sit a tuch high vs warrantys and cincys....:beer:


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

If I was planning on shaving the bumper than sure, no prob. Id pop em out n have an easier time with the fmic... but I like the aliens. 

IMO their pretty dope... one of those little awesome bits of German engineering you get with a car like the TT... but thats just my $0.02.

That's why I'm looking to do a fmic setup that lets me keep em.

Cincy,

I get what makes the setup complicated, but I'm looking at the setup like this...








... and it looks like we should be able to run the pipes exactly where the smic's sit. The aliens and side mounts obviously arent occupying the same space, so if the pipes were routed in their exact footprint, then it shouldn't be a problem other than same tricky bends.

I also see that the right side is pushed back some(as the middle tube is bent) and that really is my only cause for concern with this concept. Still looks feasible though. Is that what your referring to?


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Nice 20psi!:beer:

Thats very similar to what I had in mind(though i hadnt thought to paint em)

So with your current setup, could you retain the aliens(if you wanted to:laugh?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

The pipe shown connecting the two smics is BEHIND the rad. You have to run them in the FRONT of the rad for a fmic to work. This space is where the aliens are. YOU ARE NOT GOING TO KEEP THEM UNLESS YOU RUN **MAYBE** 2" PIPING. it's not going to happen. I know because his setup is a copy of mine. I already run them as low as possible.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Okay, so I just realized the oem pipe runs behind the radiator... that puts a big dent in my concept:screwy:

I hadn't realized it before... my bad.

Would anyone have an x-ray type shot of where the aliens sit?


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

beat me to it...


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

They sit behind the squares on the bumper and drop down about 4" and are about 1.5" in diameter. The are attached to the backside of the bumper so you cant really get a good pick of the room or lack there of. If you pull the center grill out you can see them clearly and know there is no room.


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Damn I guess CTS saying their kit can retain the Aliens threw me off. Gotta call em out on that one...

Thanks for the info Cincy:beer:

I'll admit though, without the aliens a fmic is a no deal for me(unless i go TB, which wont be for a while)...


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

if you really want the head light washer things why not just go out and have some one make you a custom intercooler's? you can buy just the core and buy endtanks that match up and have some one weld them up... i know this is not the cheap way to go but it might be the only (sleeper way) of doing what you wanna do.. worth a shot right?


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## SteveCJr (Aug 3, 2008)

VroomTT said:


> Also, how much of a feelable difference does the front mount really make? Faster spool time? Cooler temps? What are the real benefits for those of us that arent running BTs???


From what I have read... Nothing


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## 20psi now (Feb 26, 2009)

SteveCJr said:


> From what I have read... Nothing


i hold the same intake temp for a lot longer on a hot day, almost 4-5 good hard runs, you hit the interstate and it cools off a lot faster then the side mounts ever did... i lost a little spool my self but i no longer spike in boost... on a 98* day i can start around 130ish* cruiseing and but the end of a 3-4 gear pull to 6k im right around 105*ish.. it helps more then you know, and im also still on the k04-023 even with the side mounts i could feel power loss after one long pull down the high way or after driving normal for more then an hour..:beer:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Sorry Phil, but it looks like a lost/pointless cause. Regardless how cute or nifty they are, they are WORTHLESS. Unless you like spraying wiper fluid all over the front of your car.


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## 96AAAjetta (Jul 7, 2008)

warranty225cpe said:


> ...Regardless how cute or nifty they are, they are WORTHLESS. Unless you like spraying wiper fluid all over the front of your car.


:thumbup:


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## VroomTT (Jan 17, 2011)

Hahaha yea I guess so Eric. Im not trying to pull the trigger on it right away anyway. Coilovers will def be coming before the fmic. 

Just getting a feeler for the available options.


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## corradojohnt (Sep 16, 2007)

cincyTT said:


> I've been busy with cars and work. I did all the hard stuff, it takes no effort to reverse engineer something. Just look at OBX. I just don't like making them without having like 3 or 4 solid people willing to buy. If there is stil a demand, I can get on it.



^I am in the market for a set, add me to the waiting list :thumbup:


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

I decided to paint my crash bar while I fad the bumper off.


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