# TTS for road and TRACK use.



## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

I have come to loath looking for information on what "others" have done to improve the performance of their mbq mk3 TTS. So much fluff and garbage out on the webs. I suppose its due in part to the low volume these cars represent. Taking that into account, what we are left with is the bulk of posters talking about things they have no experience with and that they only use the car on the road as daily driver. I hope to use this as means to communicate real settings and changes that make the car handle supremely. 
I am on the track a fair bit, I coach for 5 different groups, so get to see how this mbq TTS compares to a lot of others cars, and as my car sits now it holds up really well. It is all subjective as I can't account for the other drivers as to their skills and its only track days after all. That said, here is what I have done so far and the results:

Camber plates: -2.2 degrees neg camber front, that is the max with Ground Control Camber plates (the only no cut option for camber plates that I know of, the others require you to cut the strut towers some) I will post up the exact settings when I get back to my office and find the spec sheet from the alignment.
Rears are set to: IIRC -1.7

StopTech ST-60 355MM Trophy kit brake kit: I killed the stock 4 piston setup with 660 fluid after 2 sessions, got about a 25% brake loss, it was sudden too, figure it was overheating and I baked the pads. No problems what so ever with the new setup. Running the ST performance street pads front and some junk I could find for the rears ST doesn't make rear pads yet, unfortunately there is still little to be had for the rear pads. Carbotech will "make" me a set if I ship them a donor plate from the ATE rear brakes> I have a spent set and intend to do just that. Will most likely go with XP8's all around for track use.

Changed out my 20" wheels for some light weight 18x9 Neuspeed wheels and 255\40\18 Bridgestone RE71r, this was a huge improvement in both acceleration, stopping and corner forces. I just installed a set of 265\35\18 Pirelli Trofeo R's and have only done one Very Wet track day on them, so far I am impressed as long as the temps stay above 45 degree's. The 20's will go back on for winter till I can source decent set of 18" wheels with winter tires> Tricky bit about this car is the wheel offsets. ET50 is the stock 20" the Neuspeed are ET40 IIRC.

I have had to figure out what fits by gambling a bit, I bought a Forge Motorsports Cold air intake for a Golf R, it fits with very minor mods, this looked to me to be the best intake in terms of unobstructed air flow into the airbox. I am pretty happy with it, though not fully into the foam filter.

APR Stage 1 (inc DSG) was a good bit of power: had the car on a dyno and it put down 292whp and 365wt. Not the HP numbers I was lead to believe I would get based on APR's charts. I figured out that APR uses a really low drive train loss factor. The torque was outstanding based on the that particular dyno, this was a dynojet with unlinked rollers if that makes a difference.

APR Stage 2 (inc DSG) with AWE downpipe and High Flow cat. MORE power, the car is just a little bit faster and it sounds FANTASTIC. If you like the sound a turbo 4 makes, its is a bit menacing, you really hear the shifts now with the windows down. I was bouncing off the rev limiter before, as the car was too quite with stock exhaust. Now mind you this is still the stock exhaust from the Downpipe HFC back. 

I want: To install lowering springs but havent' got the MRC thing sorted yet, last night I installed an HR rear sway bar to see if I can get even less corner exit understeer. I would welcome some off throttle oversteer to help tighten up the line when needed. I also have the usual suspects of subframe inserts from 034 to help tighten things up.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

How is the can handling now, are you just looking for more exit oversteer, on throttle, or in general? What are you doing for toe settings. With regards to the springs, you really ought to consider if not go for the GC sleeve overs. Getting the front to rear balance dialed will really get the rear to come out more under throttle. What do your tire temps look like, -2.2 likely is not enough to keep the tire "happy." What are you doing for tire pressure? Reducing the rear camber should help bring the rear around some more.

I've heard unlinked rollers can lead to the Haldex swapping power front to back, could be responsible for lower numbers, not sure how much truth there is to it though. I thought APR conducted their dynos in FWD mode?

What do the 4 piston brakes look like, any thoughts about selling the caliper and lines? Do you happen to know if they would clear the 19" S3 forged wheels without spacers?


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> How is the can handling now, are you just looking for more exit oversteer, on throttle, or in general? What are you doing for toe settings. With regards to the springs, you really ought to consider if not go for the GC sleeve overs. Getting the front to rear balance dialed will really get the rear to come out more under throttle. What do your tire temps look like, -2.2 likely is not enough to keep the tire "happy." What are you doing for tire pressure? Reducing the rear camber should help bring the rear around some more.
> 
> I've heard unlinked rollers can lead to the Haldex swapping power front to back, could be responsible for lower numbers, not sure how much truth there is to it though. I thought APR conducted their dynos in FWD mode?
> 
> What do the 4 piston brakes look like, any thoughts about selling the caliper and lines? Do you happen to know if they would clear the 19" S3 forged wheels without spacers?


Super Awesome reply!

with current setup I get exit understeer on throttle, mostly. Depends on conditions, wet = OS, dry = US. While trail braking its great, transition to neutral throttle is ok then on acceleration its starts to push to have to work the pedal.

-2.2 is max with camber plates and cars limits, need to change out more stuff to get more but a dearth of parts is holding me back. The rears are -1.75 with .06 toe in. Getting lowering springs will help this a lot.

I just installed a stiffer rear bar (H&R), this may be too much bar, I will see this weekend.

No data on the tire temps but wear pattern looks pretty good on the RE71s, the Trofeo R's have on seen wet.
Called GC to ask about GC Sleeve overs.

Yes have the stock 4 pots, 750 miles, and yes they should fit.

I had them listed on Panjo (ke) for a while.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> Super Awesome reply!
> 
> with current setup I get exit understeer on throttle, mostly. Depends on conditions, wet = OS, dry = US. While trail braking its great, transition to neutral throttle is ok then on acceleration its starts to push to have to work the pedal.
> 
> ...


Are the front control arms slotted for camber/caster adjust? I know the R and S3 arms are not, but I thought the TT-S did come with more adjustments. If so, have you pulled out on them yet? Do you recall how much camber the car had from the factory? What are you doing for hot pressures, you may be able to re-balance the car by playing with tire pressures to maximize a dry setup for the wet. Not having enough inflation reduces the ability of the tire to resist hydroplaning. Higher pressures than expected are usually required.

Tire wear helps with data, but you really need a tire temp gauge, specifically one that pokes into the tire core, to get a more accurate representation of what's going on. Given the current setup, I would advise decreasing rear camber. By standing up the tire more during cornering you allow it to deflect and fold over more quickly, thus allowing for better corner exit. When you have camber, the tire ends up falling into its sweet spot and putting a sure foot down, thus adding to exit understeer.

Are you looking at basic H&R sport lowering springs? The off the shelf stuff tends to have a pretty soft rate which coupled with too much lowering ends up hurting more than it helps. A not so fantastic front end geometry promotes wonderful understeer in these cars when lowered too much. I'd suggest the sleeve over for two reasons, you know the rate and can swap rates, and you'll be able to corner balance. Do you have the magnetic shocks, do you have plans to keep them?

Keep an eye on the outer front tire after you install the larger sway, I've found that when the front does not have enough roll resistance to begin with and a poor camber curve, a larger rear sway just adds more load to the front outer wheel and pushes the car into understeer sooner, masked by greater entry speed and lift throttle oversteer.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> Are the front control arms slotted for camber/caster adjust? I know the R and S3 arms are not, but I thought the TT-S did come with more adjustments. If so, have you pulled out on them yet? Do you recall how much camber the car had from the factory? What are you doing for hot pressures, you may be able to re-balance the car by playing with tire pressures to maximize a dry setup for the wet. Not having enough inflation reduces the ability of the tire to resist hydroplaning. Higher pressures than expected are usually required.
> 
> Tire wear helps with data, but you really need a tire temp gauge, specifically one that pokes into the tire core, to get a more accurate representation of what's going on. Given the current setup, I would advise decreasing rear camber. By standing up the tire more during cornering you allow it to deflect and fold over more quickly, thus allowing for better corner exit. When you have camber, the tire ends up falling into its sweet spot and putting a sure foot down, thus adding to exit understeer.
> 
> ...




I just ordered the GC sleeve over, should get here next week. Good point on the rear sway bar pressing more on the front, I plan on bring the stock bar and some tools. I need be I put the stock back if the performance is suboptimal. I will be running higher pressure on the tires if its a rain fest, thanks for pointing that out. The show room stock camber was -.6 and -.85, I took it from the dealer to local shop and had them max it out at -.94 and -.98. That was all room the stock set up offers. GC is sending 475lbs front and 650 rear.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> I just ordered the GC sleeve over, should get here next week. Good point on the rear sway bar pressing more on the front, I plan on bring the stock bar and some tools. I need be I put the stock back if the performance is suboptimal. I will be running higher pressure on the tires if its a rain fest, thanks for pointing that out. The show room stock camber was -.6 and -.85, I took it from the dealer to local shop and had them max it out at -.94 and -.98. That was all room the stock set up offers. GC is sending 475lbs front and 650 rear.


Sounds good. Interested to hear how they do with mag ride as well. Don't forget to take pics and share.


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## callmecue (May 18, 2007)

*Thank you for starting this thread!*

I'm an Audi driver and fan. I plan on purchasing a MK 3 TTS for the exact reason you stated: Road and TRACK! I vacillated between a B8.5 S5 and a MK 2 TTS for quite some time, but after seeing S5s on tracks and autocross courses and on twisty mountain roads, I could tell that that was not what would give me satisfaction. They are so heavy and wear street tires down to slicks all too quickly. After watching a YouTube video of a modded Golf R, I now know exactly what I'd like to buy in a year or so. I hope more track junkies come into this thread.

Question: Are there any merits to *corner balancing*? And what type of shop has this capability?


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

callmecue said:


> I'm an Audi driver and fan. I plan on purchasing a MK 3 TTS for the exact reason you stated: Road and TRACK! I vacillated between a B8.5 S5 and a MK 2 TTS for quite some time, but after seeing S5s on tracks and autocross courses and on twisty mountain roads, I could tell that that was not what would give me satisfaction. They are so heavy and wear street tires down to slicks all too quickly. After watching a YouTube video of a modded Golf R, I now know exactly what I'd like to buy in a year or so. I hope more track junkies come into this thread.
> 
> Question: Are there any merits to *corner balancing*? And what type of shop has this capability?


Absolutely correct, the A5 is heavy, the S5 I think is heavier. Unless you strip out the interior and such it will never be that light. I have an A4 Avant, with 170 lbs in drivers seat on the corner balance scales tipped the scales at 4042 lbs!!!

. Once I got that through my head, I stopped trying to make the Avant faster and started looking at lighter cars, the TTS is supposed to be around 3200 lbs, it feels like it...

The TTS is light to start with but to be honest have not had it on the scales yet, but Corner balancing is important to consistent handling. The stock car with MRC can't be balance very easily, its not adjustable, you could use shims I suppose. I just ordered a set of Ground Control lower springs that can be adjusted for height, therefore you can corner balance.

Right now my car turns better to the left that the right, when I have passengers on the track the car is better balanced, you really can tell the difference.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

callmecue said:


> I'm an Audi driver and fan. I plan on purchasing a MK 3 TTS for the exact reason you stated: Road and TRACK! I vacillated between a B8.5 S5 and a MK 2 TTS for quite some time, but after seeing S5s on tracks and autocross courses and on twisty mountain roads, I could tell that that was not what would give me satisfaction. They are so heavy and wear street tires down to slicks all too quickly. After watching a YouTube video of a modded Golf R, I now know exactly what I'd like to buy in a year or so. I hope more track junkies come into this thread.
> 
> Question: Are there any merits to *corner balancing*? And what type of shop has this capability?


Where the B8 chassis shines is the multilink front suspension. Excellent camber curve, endless camber and just non stop grip. The McPherson strut design on the MQB chassis is simply not as good when it comes to grip creation. It does shine in its simplicity and packaging though, which is exactly what it was designed for.

Depending on how in tune you are with the car, corner balancing can be just something you say you did, or the difference between a sloppy car and a very precise, exacting tool. If you can feel the difference of changing tire pressures a few pounds, or how weight shifts around from tire to tire, you'll likely be able to tell more than just a difference when you corner balance. Not only does it grant equalized left/right handling, but the car will just take a set better. For me, I can even tell a difference in straight line driving, the car just feels different. 

There are plenty of race shops that have this capability, however it really comes down to how much time the shop is willing to spend with you, or how much you are willing to spend. Some shops will say a 49/51 balance is good enough, others will strive for a perfect 50/50. Does the shop simply get your weight and throw bags in the car, or do they have you come and sit in your preferred seating position, with your racing gear on, ie helmet etc? Did they specify how much fuel to have in the car, or did you spec out where you want the fuel level to be before balancing. Beyond this, does the shop spend time trying to get all 4 corner heights relatively even, or do they just make one solid huge adjustment to get the balance right. Then what do they do about front to rear balance, do they try to make any adjustments or leave as is? There's a lot of questions that come into play when finding a shop that properly balances a car. Its not a cheap process, but it does make a very large impact. IMO it is completely worth it. On a factory car, its not really worth the effort it takes to balance the car.

Don't forget to disconnect the sway bars while balancing and then reset the bar preload to be neutral after the car has been balanced, that can have a significant impact on not only how the car engages as you corner, but also in straight line driving as well.


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## callmecue (May 18, 2007)

Thanks for the reply and details Rex! I live to learn; especially in regards to my hobbies/passions. I'm not at full "track boy" level yet but I plan to be there. I currently drive an A3 "sportback" and I've gone as far with it as I'd like while still using it as my daily. I use it for autocross and track days but would like so much more in the power/handling department. I regret getting a car with a panoramic roof because it literally feels heavy in performance driving. While adjusting my aftermarket sway bar, I noticed that the right side of the bar where it attaches to the end-link is warped causing me to adjust my end link severely. Now I have obnoxious noises coming from the right rear end-link. Wondering if this is due to the car being heavy, FWD, and out of balance.

I look forward to my next Audi purchase which (hopefully) will be a MK 3 TT/TTS. I may keep my A3 and revert it to stock suspension for comfort and then push the limits of the TT/TTS.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

callmecue said:


> Thanks for the reply and details Rex! I live to learn; especially in regards to my hobbies/passions. I'm not at full "track boy" level yet but I plan to be there. I currently drive an A3 "sportback" and I've gone as far with it as I'd like while still using it as my daily. I use it for autocross and track days but would like so much more in the power/handling department. I regret getting a car with a panoramic roof because it literally feels heavy in performance driving. While adjusting my aftermarket sway bar, I noticed that the right side of the bar where it attaches to the end-link is warped causing me to adjust my end link severely. Now I have obnoxious noises coming from the right rear end-link. Wondering if this is due to the car being heavy, FWD, and out of balance.
> 
> I look forward to my next Audi purchase which (hopefully) will be a MK 3 TT/TTS. I may keep my A3 and revert it to stock suspension for comfort and then push the limits of the TT/TTS.


What sway bar do you have, the bar should not be able to warp? It would be more likely for the endlink to bend or break.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

My report on H&R sway bar: the track is super wet, so in about every corner I am sliding something: understeer yes, oversteer yes. The car is way out of balance. The Trofeo R's were much better in the rain with the stock sway bars. I brought the stock one, to swap out the H&R, but its way to wet, honestly I don't want to lay in a river to do this job. I can suffer. 

I tried adding air (37psi), removing air (31psi), R8 forum suggests that 28-29 cold, with target of 34, another poster says 38 is good hot temp, nothing gives me grip. When I get back, H&R is coming out, Trofeo's coming off, would have been better on my UHP summers on the 20's (P zero). Should be getting my Ground Control sleeve overs next week. Will see how that feels with the stock sways. Might talk to another mfg about there "designed for just rear" sway: 034? Neuspeed? forgot right now who make it but they say it is designed for use with stock front.

Progress.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

mossback said:


> My report on H&R sway bar: Saturday the track is super wet, so in about every corner I am sliding something: understeer yes, oversteer yes. The car is way out of balance. The Trofeo R's were much better in the rain with the stock sway bars. I brought the stock one, to swap out the H&R, but its way too wet, honestly I don't want to lay in a river to do this job. I can suffer.
> 
> I tried adding air (37psi), removing air (31psi), R8 forum suggests that 28-29 cold, with target of 34, another poster says 38 is good hot temp, nothing gives me grip. When I get back the H&R is coming out, Trofeo's coming off for the winter, I would have been better on my UHP summers on the 20's (P zero).
> 
> ...


So the next day Sunday: 

Yesterday we had a dry track and now I must say that the car was nearly perfect! What a change a dry track makes. I am going to calm my assesment down a bit and suggest that the total lack of grip the Trofeo R had in the rain simply highlighted the imbalance the bigger sway bar is presenting. I will still put the stock bar back and test linear rate lowering springs, on the road first, and then hopefully on a test and tune track day soon.

So while Saturday I was tip toeing around the track pointing just about everyone by, I had the opposite with me lapping the back markers on the field in a 15 min session. Car was on rail, felt fantastic, the trofeo is great tire in dry conditions.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> So the next day Sunday:
> 
> Yesterday we had a dry track and now I must say that the car was nearly perfect! What a change a dry track makes. I am going to calm my assesment down a bit and suggest that the total lack of grip the Trofeo R had in the rain simply highlighted the imbalance the bigger sway bar is presenting. I will still put the stock bar back and test linear rate lowering springs, on the road first, and then hopefully on a test and tune track day soon.
> 
> So while Saturday I was tip toeing around the track pointing just about everyone by, I had the opposite with me lapping the back markers on the field in a 15 min session. Car was on rail, felt fantastic, the trofeo is great tire in dry conditions.


Glad to hear the car is performing better. My first assessment would have been that the Trofeos do not fare well in the cold and wet. Full track tires really do need a lot of heat to get any grip. Coupled with stiff bars the car will just not roll enough to generate enough friction.

034 makes a bar that was designed with the factory front bar in mind. For wet conditions you could remove one endlink all together to disable the swaybar. This may be more applicable when you have the stiffer springs in the car. You'll need to verify however that you don't end up crunching the bar if other arms, etc run into it during compression/extension.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> Glad to hear the car is performing better. My first assessment would have been that the Trofeos do not fare well in the cold and wet. Full track tires really do need a lot of heat to get any grip. Coupled with stiff bars the car will just not roll enough to generate enough friction.
> 
> 034 makes a bar that was designed with the factory front bar in mind. For wet conditions you could remove one endlink all together to disable the swaybar. This may be more applicable when you have the stiffer springs in the car. You'll need to verify however that you don't end up crunching the bar if other arms, etc run into it during compression/extension.


That is good advice, won't take long to remove the end-link bolt.

It was about 63 so above the min temp (45) for the trofeo. It was odd, that the next day damp track, I was feeling good, while others said it was still slick and slippery. So the tire is very sensitive to real water but don't mind damp, it was nothing like the dry traction but it was more than double the previous days grip. This was at 35 psi cold all around.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> That is good advice, won't take long to remove the end-link bolt.
> 
> It was about 63 so above the min temp (45) for the trofeo. It was odd, that the next day damp track, I was feeling good, while others said it was still slick and slippery. So the tire is very sensitive to real water but don't mind damp, it was nothing like the dry traction but it was more than double the previous days grip. This was at 35 psi cold all around.


After looking at the tread pattern of the Trofeo R, its very clear why it did not perform in the wet. It has very minimal standing water clearing ability. There are no real channels, let alone directional veins to pull water away. I would attribute many of your handling oddities to that alone. Going to a wider tire only exacerbates the issue as now the force is spread out over a larger area, further reducing the ability to cut through standing water. The stock swaybar allowed for more weight transfer to load up the tire and generate grip. The stiffer bar prevented that from occurring when it really needed it.

Generally speaking, a decent R comp will do pretty well in damp conditions as long as the tire can get up to temp. Your day 2 findings in damp conditions further confirms this. When you get a decent layer of rain/water you really do you need channels to clear the water.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> After looking at the tread pattern of the Trofeo R, its very clear why it did not perform in the wet. It has very minimal standing water clearing ability. There are no real channels, let alone directional veins to pull water away. I would attribute many of your handling oddities to that alone. Going to a wider tire only exacerbates the issue as now the force is spread out over a larger area, further reducing the ability to cut through standing water. The stock swaybar allowed for more weight transfer to load up the tire and generate grip. The stiffer bar prevented that from occurring when it really needed it.
> 
> Generally speaking, a decent R comp will do pretty well in damp conditions as long as the tire can get up to temp. Your day 2 findings in damp conditions further confirms this. When you get a decent layer of rain/water you really do you need channels to clear the water.


I believe you are absolutely correct, that even the smallest amount of water beyond damp (puddles in between the grains of sand, aggregate) floats this tire. Interesting is that it does have deep grooves on the inside tire so straight line stability is good, get over on the corners is not. Now this track is slick from use, at another newer track this water effect was not as pronounced and I felt the car got around the track decently in real rain, could have been deeper gaps in the crushed rock that makes up the aggregate of asphalt.

Springs are going to be interesting, as the spring weights are much higher than the stock: it was what was suggested from GC: Stock front spring as tested: 280- progressive (according to my shop), GC spring 475- linear.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> I believe you are absolutely correct, that even the smallest amount of water beyond damp (puddles in between the grains of sand, aggregate) floats this tire. Interesting is that it does have deep grooves on the inside tire so straight line stability is good, get over on the corners is not. Now this track is slick from use, at another newer track this water effect was not as pronounced and I felt the car got around the track decently in real rain, could have been deeper gaps in the crushed rock that makes up the aggregate of asphalt.
> 
> Springs are going to be interesting, as the spring weights are much higher than the stock: it was what was suggested from GC: Stock front spring as tested: 280- progressive (according to my shop), GC spring 475- linear.


Given its a newer track, they may have used a different method that draws water off the surface more efficiently. There's always going to be some differences.

I would highly suggest getting your springs re-tested, or even sending them off to GC for testing. Factory spring rates on the Golf R are near 425/550, understand that the TT is lighter, but to go nearly 100lbs lighter on the fronts alone seems quite strange.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> Given its a newer track, they may have used a different method that draws water off the surface more efficiently. There's always going to be some differences.
> 
> I would highly suggest getting your springs re-tested, or even sending them off to GC for testing. Factory spring rates on the Golf R are near 425/550, understand that the TT is lighter, but to go nearly 100lbs lighter on the fronts alone seems quite strange.


I have been reading and reading, am thinking my shop is incorrect on the numbers as you are suggesting. I was getting buyers remorse as the new springs arrived yesterday. Threads regarding the 225 TT are all using higher springs rates.

Worst case is I end up swapping out the springs to a lighter value. I don't expect to get it perfect the first time anyway.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> I have been reading and reading, am thinking my shop is incorrect on the numbers as you are suggesting. I was getting buyers remorse as the new springs arrived yesterday. Threads regarding the 225 TT are all using higher springs rates.
> 
> Worst case is I end up swapping out the springs to a lighter value. I don't expect to get it perfect the first time anyway.


I wouldn't get so remorseful quite so fast. The MQB platform is better setup than the MK1 TT 225. That chassis is based on the MKIV chassis and required a ~600lb front spring because the geometry on the car is far from ideal. The MK3 chassis not only has better geometry, but the car is wider and makes better use of the Haldex system. 475 is likely going to be a bit firmer than stock while offering good ride quality for daily driving. However the key is the natural frequency. The rear rates are firmer relative to the stock front to back balance, which should get the car to rotate more naturally. Given the fact that you likely are not going to be changing swaybars, spring rates, or shock dampening based on wet/dry conditions, this could be a good compromise. You may do better by going with a stiffer adjustable front bar to get additional roll control for dry conditions. Besides it never hurts to have a small collection to do some experimentation with.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

*Springs install: Ground Control Sleeve over.*

I received them on Wednesday and took part of yesterday off to make the change over> after taking the drivers side assembly out I found the kit is not a perfect fit. I had to remove rubber\plastic boot off of the shock body to get the new adjustable spring perch on, this also removes an integral seal, that keeps dirt and gunk out of the 3/16" deep recess cup around the center stanchion (piston) talking to GC they say to leave it off and its not been an issue. My background with motorcycles (on the track) and mountain bikes (downhill) that if the stanchion gets damaged the shock is toast, the inner seals will leak. I could only imagine sand and such rubbing up and down on the stanchion till the surface was scratched up enough that it will leak. At 650.00 (just the damper) each this would be an expensive fail.

I had a thought about greasing up the stanchion, then filling the recess with a 100% silicone to prevent large stuff from collecting in the "cup". There are indents that hold the main seal in place, so the silicone will have something to bite on and the grease will help form a tight but not too tight around the stanchion. 

I think ultimately the boot needs to stay the spring perch needs to be larger diameter to fit Over the boot.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> I received them on Wednesday and took part of yesterday off to make the change over> after taking the drivers side assembly out I found the kit is not a perfect fit. I had to remove rubber\plastic boot off of the shock body to get the new adjustable spring perch on, this also removes an integral seal, that keeps dirt and gunk out of the 3/16" deep recess cup around the center stanchion (piston) talking to GC they say to leave it off and its not been an issue. My background with motorcycles (on the track) and mountain bikes (downhill) that if the stanchion gets damaged the shock is toast, the inner seals will leak. I could only imagine sand and such rubbing up and down on the stanchion till the surface was scratched up enough that it will leak. At 650.00 (just the damper) each this would be an expensive fail.
> 
> I had a thought about greasing up the stanchion, then filling the recess with a 100% silicone to prevent large stuff from collecting in the "cup". There are indents that hold the main seal in place, so the silicone will have something to bite on and the grease will help form a tight but not too tight around the stanchion.
> 
> I think ultimately the boot needs to stay the spring perch needs to be larger diameter to fit Over the boot.


I assume the dust boot is an additional outer seal and there is another main seal on shock. Being that the strut is inverted I'd be less worried about it. I have run bootless before and do on a few of the other track/daily cars. On one of the cars I did fashion a boot using tie rod end boots. The exposed portion of the shock really only needs coverage at the top as the shock will compress and most gets pushed into the shock body, to protect from major impacts from rocks flying about, though it is unlikely for something to come up. Another option would be to use a set of bags/covers. These bags are common in the offroad industry and cover the entire coil. This should provide maximum protection. I've seen some made for cars as well. Keep in mind that with whatever you pick it needs to be able to deal with rotational forces since its a McPherson strut. IE if you have a zipper style, or its too long, will it scrap up the spring, or will it sag over and catch on the tire etc.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> I assume the dust boot is an additional outer seal and there is another main seal on shock. Being that the strut is inverted I'd be less worried about it.


The strut is not inverted, the aluminum looking bit sticking up in the bottom of half of the spring picture (right photo) is a "moat" for want of a better term, yes there is a seal in the bottom of the moat, but at 3/16" deep it will fill with sand and such.

The offroad "sock" sounds like a good thing to look into, might not be pretty but short of finding and making my own collet and nut to fit over the gray plastic dust boot\seal (left photo) as i think this is how a "engineered for these struts" would be.

Filling the moat with silicone also sounds like it might work. There is a plastic inner guard on the OEM setup that I was able to stuff in side the GC spring, this will keep the stanchion from being pelted with projectiles over time pitting it.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

mossback said:


> The strut is not inverted, the aluminum looking bit sticking up in the bottom of half of the spring picture (right photo) is a "moat" for want of a better term, yes there is a seal in the bottom of the moat, but at 3/16" deep it will fill with sand and such.
> 
> The offroad "sock" sounds like a good thing to look into, might not be pretty but short of finding and making my own collet and nut to fit over the gray plastic dust boot\seal (left photo) as i think this is how a "engineered for these struts" would be.
> 
> Filling the moat with silicone also sounds like it might work. There is a plastic inner guard on the OEM setup that I was able to stuff in side the GC spring, this will keep the stanchion from being pelted with projectiles over time pitting it.


Unless piston up is called inverted, on motorcycles especially sport bikes, have the piston down, and we call those inverted.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> Unless piston up is called inverted, on motorcycles especially sport bikes, have the piston down, and we call those inverted.


Audi datasheets indicate the front struts are inverted. I guess it must be opposite for autos. In any case, I like the sock idea as it blocks debris from knicking the shock. I have typically found that to be more of an issue than liquid collection. I worry that filling the area with grease could pull it past the seals and eventually pull dirt down along with it. Just a thought from the opposite side of things.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> Audi datasheets indicate the front struts are inverted. I guess it must be opposite for autos. In any case, I like the sock idea as it blocks debris from knicking the shock. I have typically found that to be more of an issue than liquid collection. I worry that filling the area with grease could pull it past the seals and eventually pull dirt down along with it. Just a thought from the opposite side of things.


I've just ordered a set of "socks" for the shocks. 

I will do a mock install to see what I think.


http://www.outerwearsracing.com/search2.asp?pShockCirc=15+3%2F4&pShockLength=16&shape=Shock+Cover&posted=1


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

So have you driven the car yet, or is it awaiting socks before you test drive. Interested in hearing your driving feedback with the upgraded rates.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> So have you driven the car yet, or is it awaiting socks before you test drive. Interested in hearing your driving feedback with the upgraded rates.


NO I totally bailed on the install till I am happy with protecting the front struts.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

*Long time coming*

I installed Bilstein Clubsports yesterday, removing the whole mag shock system. The car was "bouncy", I describe as digital feeling.


I had some good dry days on the track and was finding the limits of the stock bits, made the decision to go with Biltsteins Clubsports, they are double adjustable and so far the transition is stellar. The car feels connected to the tarmac, bumps are rounder, less square feeling. I have picked up some NVH, but that doesn't bother me that much, its good trade off for the feedback the suspenders are communicating to me. I have only done a few short street drives but I am happy.

I have them set about halfway up the threaded body for ride height, and 2 clicks on both rebound and compression, max is 10.

Will be getting the alignment and camber set tomorrow. Had to cut the tops off of the strut towers to get full access to the camber plates built in Biltstein solution.

I will post up some pictures later on. They are a quality kit, linear springs in the front with tender springs, the rears are a progressive style or so they appear (football shaped) The front strut assembly are 7lbs a corner lighter than the stock, the rears are about a wash, the rear spring is heavier than stock by about a 1lbs. over all reducing front end weight is a good thing.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

mossback said:


> I installed Bilstein Clubsports yesterday, removing the whole mag shock system. The car was "bouncy", I describe as digital feeling.
> 
> 
> I had some good dry days on the track and was finding the limits of the stock bits, made the decision to go with Biltsteins Clubsports, they are double adjustable and so far the transition is stellar. The car feels connected to the tarmac, bumps are rounder, less square feeling. I have picked up some NVH, but that doesn't bother me that much, its good trade off for the feedback the suspenders are communicating to me. I have only done a few short street drives but I am happy.
> ...


Which MR defeats did you end up purchasing to keep the ECU happy? Or did you find a way to do this with VCDS tricks?


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

rex_racer said:


> Which MR defeats did you end up purchasing to keep the ECU happy? Or did you find a way to do this with VCDS tricks?



Nothing yet, isweep or KW and or VCDS tweak, I haven't had the chance to hook up laptop to car to try VCDS. Hopefully today.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

mossback said:


> Nothing yet, isweep or KW and or VCDS tweak, I haven't had the chance to hook up laptop to car to try VCDS. Hopefully today.


The VDCS method is grayed out, looks like might need security access to get at those check boxes. Also, maybe you have do this before you remove the shocks??

I measured 1.5 ohms on the shock body, not sure if the ohm load increase as the shock compresses, its kind of hard to get at the terminals. I might just try a few resistors to see if the dash lights go off.


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## oscartung26 (Sep 19, 2016)

Hi im looking to get to stage 2 for my track use as well, right now i have 595RSRR tire, HR lower spring, 034 rear sway and endlink, APR stage 1. im looking a downpipe for a long time, just wonder is the Golf R will direct fit on TT without any mod or any kind of mod i will needed. thanks!


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

> im looking a downpipe for a long time, just wonder is the Golf R will direct fit on TT without any mod or any kind of mod i will needed. thanks!


Unfortunately no. The tt is shorter than the golf r/A3 by about 5 inches so modification to the down pipe would be necessary to meake it fit.


Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## oscartung26 (Sep 19, 2016)

anti suv said:


> Unfortunately no. The tt is shorter than the golf r/A3 by about 5 inches so modification to the down pipe would be necessary to meake it fit.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


So if i get a CTS DP, where should i cut that 5 inch out? the midpipe?

Or have anyone cut on other brand? where you cut?


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## anti suv (Sep 26, 2013)

oscartung26 said:


> So if i get a CTS DP, where should i cut that 5 inch out? the midpipe?
> 
> Or have anyone cut on other brand? where you cut?


Not sure as i have not done it myself. I had read a post a while ago that mentioned that down pipe could be used from other mqb vehicles with a little modification.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

oscartung26 said:


> Hi im looking to get to stage 2 for my track use as well, right now i have 595RSRR tire, HR lower spring, 034 rear sway and endlink, APR stage 1. im looking a downpipe for a long time, just wonder is the Golf R will direct fit on TT without any mod or any kind of mod i will needed. thanks!



I have STG2, with DP, I don't recall whose DP I have at the moment, I will check with my shop but think its not the APR version, but thought it was Golf R spec and didn't require any cutting. Hold that thought, I will get back with the definitive answer.


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## mossback (Jul 26, 2016)

mossback said:


> I have STG2, with DP, I don't recall whose DP I have at the moment, I will check with my shop but think its not the APR version, but thought it was Golf R spec and didn't require any cutting. Hold that thought, I will get back with the definitive answer.





AWE non resonated HFC DP and it is for the MK7R\S3, it fits just fine on the TTS.



Sounds super too, I think.


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## oscartung26 (Sep 19, 2016)

Anyone thinking get oil catch can for track? R those for gti and golf R fit our car? Thanks!


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## NCoastGTi (Oct 11, 2002)

Did anyone ever answer the question about slotted lower control arms? I'm not holding my breath, but that would be wonderful!


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