# New to Phaeton W12 world - gearbox problem and more



## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi all,

I am Martin, from South Spain, and just bought a 2003 W12 Phaeton with 55.000 kms on the clock and a few problems that were knocked off the price.

The car is absolutely fantastic, so much better than my previous 4.2 A8, although I bought with a gearbox problem that dropped the price down to USD 8.000.

The gearbox issue is that it jumps from 1st to 2nd gear with a 'clonck' and much harder when the other way around (2nd to 1st). Sometimes so hard that it automatically engages the "safe mode" with the yellow PRNDS sign on the screen. Once on 2nd gear and up, it runs smoothly.

My plan is to take the gearbox off the car and bring it to an expert mechanic on ZF gearboxes, as the VW dealer quotes USD 9.000 for a new gearbox (!!!).

Re the other issues, I have plugged in the VCDS after changing both batteries (a standard 90 Ah on the right, a VARTA G14 95 Ah on the left) which shows many faults that I can't really identify. The problem I have noticed is that one button on the steering (the OK push button on the right) does not work and when it is pushed, the cruise is deactivated (?). Looks like this module will need to be replaced (VCDS says 'control module defective').

The other issue I have noticed is that the TPMS system doesn't work. On the screen it shows clocks on each wheel... and nothing happens. I guess its the batteries of the sensors, so I am thinking on replacing them. Would this solve the problem?

I just realised that I did my last VAG COM check before clearing previous DTCs, so I will do that now and come back to post it.

Cheers and thanks for your help!


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Martin,
Is it a silver with blue leather interior the phaeton you bought?

Gabriel


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Before you drop your trans (which most likely means dropping the engine as well) I would *highly* advise starting with at least a fluid flush. 

If that doesn't resolve the issue, I would replace or rebuild the valve body.

On Dennis's old V8, he had a clunk on decel from 2-1. We replaced his valve body in my garage and no more clunk.

Had I known there was a rebuild kit available, we probably would have done that instead of buying a new valve body.



http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5215315-DIY-transmission-valve-body-replacement-completed


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi Martin,
> Is it a silver with blue leather interior the phaeton you bought?
> 
> Gabriel


Yes. Do you know the car?


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

No, unfortunately I do not know the car. I just saw it advertised and looked very nice. I really liked the colour combination.
With regards to the transmission, as suggested, I would also recommed to do a fluid flush and filter change first.
Keep us updated on how are you getting on with it, and welcome to the forum!

Gabriel


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

PowerDubs said:


> Before you drop your trans (which most likely means dropping the engine as well) I would *highly* advise starting with at least a fluid flush.
> 
> If that doesn't resolve the issue, I would replace or rebuild the valve body.
> 
> ...



Thanks  That's very interesting. although this car had the ATF fluid changed just a couple of months ago at the Volkswagen dealer. Does this mean a flush? I guess...

I see in the forums that the W12 has a different gearbox (5 sp) than the 4,2 engine (6 sp). And it is quite common that gearboxes in W12's are replaced. Am I wrong?

I will discuss this with my mechanic tomorrow, as it seems replacing the valve body would be much easier and cheaper too. 

Thanks,


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> No, unfortunately I do not know the car. I just saw it advertised and looked very nice. I really liked the colour combination.
> With regards to the transmission, as suggested, I would also recommed to do a fluid flush and filter change first.
> Keep us updated on how are you getting on with it, and welcome to the forum!
> 
> Gabriel


Thanks!

I am also considering converting the car to LPG (I had my previous BMW 330i converted and it worked very well, plus the enormous difference in fuel costs here in Spain!).


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

There are some fellow members who have had their W12 converted to LPG too. Perhaps they could give you some support and recommendations.
Fuel consumption is the price for owning a W12! I have to resign myself and run a modest V6 3.0TDI... 
By the way, was your A8 petrol or diesel powered? My brother wants to sell his A6 and purchase a 4.2 petrol A8. If yours was a petrol one perhaps you could give us some advise.
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> There are some fellow members who have had their W12 converted to LPG too. Perhaps they could give you some support and recommendations.
> Fuel consumption is the price for owning a W12! I have to resign myself and run a modest V6 3.0TDI...
> By the way, was your A8 petrol or diesel powered? My brother wants to sell his A6 and purchase a 4.2 petrol A8. If yours was a petrol one perhaps you could give us some advise.
> Cheers.
> ...


Yes, you are right! A W12 is what it is...
I had a petrol 4.2 A8 2003. Lovely car, but I like the Phaeton better.


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

This is my VAG-COM after clearing DTC and not moving the car:

Sunday,12,January,2014,18:56:25:10074
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.4 (x64)
Data version: 20110418



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3D - VW Phaeton D1
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWZZZ3DZ48007794 Mileage: 55540km/34510miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP1.lbl
Part No SW: 07C 906 018 B HW: 
Component: D1-6.0L-AT A ª5112 
Coding: 0000173
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2443E8A39E4B

1 Fault Found:
17977 - Cruise Control Switch (E45): Implausible Signal 
P1569 - 008 - Implausible Signal
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 3D0-927-156.lbl
Part No: 3D0 927 156 C
Component: AG5 01L 6.0 W12 RdW 0911 
Coding: 0000101
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 285BFC93E263

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 3D0 614 517 R
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0043 
Coding: 0008697
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 316D11F7D1B9

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 L HW: 5WK 470 22
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0213228
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2E570A8BC087

Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 759 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1501 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 356525E725D1

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 007 L
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0223 
Coding: 0500335
Shop #: WSC 79341 150 80570
VCID: 224FEEBB845F

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 F
Component: Climatronic D1 1145 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 79341 150 80570
VCID: 214DE1B78159

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049.lbl
Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 00498 572 94787
VCID: 2E570A8BC087

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 11: Engine II Labels: 07C-906-018-BAP2.lbl
Part No SW: 07C 906 018 B HW: 
Component: D1-6.0L-AT A ª5112 
Coding: 0000173
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2443E8A39E4B

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 13: Auto Dist. Reg Labels: None
Part No: 3D0 907 567 E
Component: AC101 W12 5HP244 10 0334 
Coding: 0001201
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2E570A8BC087

1 Fault Found:
00472 - Control Module for Brake Boost (J539) 
013 - Check DTC Memory

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 D
Component: 0C Airbag 8.4E+ H07 0935 
Coding: 0012355
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2443E8A39E4B

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 3D0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 3D0 953 549 C
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 3301 
Coding: 0000222
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2D550D87CD81

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 881 E
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0321 
Coding: 0007111
Shop #: WSC 79341 150 80570
VCID: 285BFC93E263

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway K<>CAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 79341 150 80570
VCID: F0EB54F39A33

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 23: Brake Booster Labels: 3D0-907-563.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 563 B
Component: BREMSBOOSTER 4010 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2759FFAFEF7D

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 28: HVAC, Rear Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 158 F
Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E570A8BC087

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E6C732ABA8F7

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0015500
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2647F2ABE877

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 760 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1501 
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2D550D87CD81

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 B
Component: NAVIGATION 0168 
Coding: 0500735
Shop #: WSC 72893 146 57787
VCID: 33611BFF2BA5

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 B
Component: Dachmodul 0605 
Coding: 0000023
Shop #: WSC 20309 150 05882
VCID: 224FEEBB845F

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 158 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E7D93FAFAFFD

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 E
Component: 1B HSG 3211 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 326F1EFBD4BF

Part No: 3D1 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104

Part No: 3D1 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 703 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104

Part No: 3D0 959 704 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104

Part No: 3D0 909 610 B
Component: 3I HDSG 2320

Part No: 7L0 907 719 
Component: Neigungssensor 0020

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 466 
Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0115 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: DFC9274F77AD

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 57: TV Tuner Labels: 3D0-919-146.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 146 
Component: TV Tuner H07 1205 
Coding: 0000010
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E5C535A755F1

1 Fault Found:
02239 - Audio / Video Output 1 
011 - Open Circuit

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: 3D0-907-273.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 273 C
Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0021 
Coding: 0011244
Shop #: WSC 00494 572 93516
VCID: 2647F2ABE877

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 66: Seat, Rear Labels: 3D0-959-860.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 860 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 H 1504 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E570A8BC087

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: None
Part No: 3D1 955 119 
Component: Front Wiper 2005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: E6C732ABA8F7

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
Part No: 3D0 915 181 B
Component: Batteriemanagement 2600 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 224FEEBB845F

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: 3D0-919-283.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 283 C
Component: 01 Einparkhilfe 0807 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2A5F069BFC6F

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 77: Telephone Labels: 3D0-035-704.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 704 D
Component: Telefon 8110 
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 1E37DA4BB027

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)




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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Yeap Martin, that's the car I spotted!
The only thing is that the two black covers on both sides of the lower centre grill, AFAIK, are meant to be silver too. Anyway they give a distinctive personality 

Gabriel


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Yeap Martin, that's the car I spotted!
> The only thing is that the two black covers on both sides of the lower centre grill, AFAIK, are meant to be silver too. Anyway they give a distinctive personality
> 
> Gabriel


That is where the radar for the adaptative cruise control is. It is a fabulous function in this car.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Upps, I thought the radar was behid the VW logo atached to a inverted V shape frame in front of the main radiator. It might be in other models then.


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

PowerDubs said:


> Before you drop your trans (which most likely means dropping the engine as well) I would *highly* advise starting with at least a fluid flush.
> 
> If that doesn't resolve the issue, I would replace or rebuild the valve body.
> 
> ...


Hi again
I forgot to mention that the vagcom showed fault code 17114. 
Is this compatible with a valve body issue?
I left the car with my mechanic and told them about this option and they will be working on that today. 
Best


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Hi Martin,

You have done the first part of the process, now you need to drive the car for a while (a couple of Km's will be ideal) to force all the 
error codes to popup and then do a new scan, this way you cleared all the "old" errors (probably a lot if you changed the battery).

Even if the dealer did an ATF change I'll go with another one (but you have to be sure t follow the procedure PERFECTLY) I did the same
thing, I spent almost 6K on a dealership and one of the things they did was to change the ATF ....my God, what a horrible experience 
that was.

I ended up doing the procedure again and never going back to that dealership again.

Juan


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Oh, I forgot to mention that you have a really nice color combination on the car. Also I wanted to point out what Gabriel was saying about the color of those two inserts on the front of the car.


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

cowboy_ said:


> Oh, I forgot to mention that you have a really nice color combination on the car. Also I wanted to point out what Gabriel was saying about the color of those two inserts on the front of the car.


Oh! I see... Those are chrome (must be an effect on the picture)


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Ok, here we go again with the transmission problems...

The mechanic basically says that we can take the risk of changing the valve body at a cost (parts only) of around USD 1.500 (including the atf fluid change) or change the whole gearbox (USD 7.000 parts only).

BUT when driving the car with the mechanic on board, we tried manually changing gears (tiptronic) and it seems to work fine this way. 

Dows this make any sense to anyone?


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

It makes a lot of sense to me. I have dealt with a lot of transmission issues. What you described is that the internal transmission is fine... no slipping at all. Only rough shifting... shifting is controlled by the valve body and also affected by the torque converter. The torque converter issue is mainly on the V8 engine... but not really heard of on W12.

I suspect the valve body is the issue. Since you are in Spain, you could consult with the ZF factory service center in Germany about this... It is posted on this forum somewhere. You could take a drive over there.


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

also you could be running low on ATF...it is worth checking


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

cowboy_ said:


> also you could be running low on ATF...it is worth checking


I concur on this one too... top it up per factory instruction.


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Thanks. Is there a way I can check the level?

I have tried the car more this afternoon to conclude that when driving it manually (with the tiptronic) its not as bad as when fully automatic, although you can still tell its not working as it should. 

The main problem happens when lowering from 2nd to 1st gear. It is as if the gearbox took too much time to engage 1st gear when lowering from 2nd gear. During that time the gearbox stays neutral and the engine revs up trying to move the car. Suddenly the 1st gear engages and the clonck happens. Something similar as if someone had hit the car on the back. 

Whilst I write this I am performing a new vag com auto test that I will copy and paste later. 

I also noted that when the gearbox went into lock mode (PRNDS in yellow) then the problem dissapears, although the car looses a lot of power. It just calls my attention that it seems to change gears normally. After restarting the car, the yellow sign goes and the gearbox comes back to normal mode.


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Here is the VAG COM reading of the gearbox

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 3D0-927-156.lbl
Part No: 3D0 927 156 C
Component: AG5 01L 6.0 W12 RdW 0911 
Coding: 0000101
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 285BFC93E263

1 Fault Found:
17114 - Gear Ratio Monitoring: Incorrect Gear Ratio 
P0730 - 003 - Mechanical Failure - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 1472 /min
RPM: 1440 /min
RPM: 192 /min
(no units): 0.0
Torque: -36.0 Nm
Temperature: 59.0°C
T.B. Angle: 0.0°
(no units): 1.0

Does this mean anything to anyone?

Thanks in advance for your enormous help, by the way!!!


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Martin,
According to ZF this type of fault is *"caused by slipping clutches or by the mechanical failure of actuators"*. In simple words I would say that a solenoid is faulty or a set of clutches is gone.
I am quite sure that your ZF mechanic should be able to determine what is wrong though.

Gabriel


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## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Actuator / solenoid being part of the valve body. 

I'd get a rebuild kit and have at it. Shouldn't be a difficult repair.


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi Martin,
> According to ZF this type of fault is *"caused by slipping clutches or by the mechanical failure of actuators"*. In simple words I would say that a solenoid is faulty or a set of clutches is gone.
> I am quite sure that your ZF mechanic should be able to determine what is wrong though.
> 
> Gabriel


Wow, thank you. 
Where did you get this from?
I am now dealing with the ZF representative in Seville and would loke to provide him with this info.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

You are welcome Martin.
I took it from a document that explains the operation and troubleshooting of the 5HP and 6HP speed automatic transmissions. It is not a VW or ZF document, it is a Jaguar training document that explains all the fault codes and what they relate to but the automatic transmissions are essentialy the same.

Gabriel


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## cowboy_ (May 16, 2011)

Call me stubborn but..... I'll check ATF level first. If you don't have enough ATF oil it will behave in the same way (not having enough pressure to engage the right valves, but eventually will, what you described it is happening).

It is something you can check rather quickly and if everything is ok, move on to the more complicated stuff.

To check the right fluid amount is on the transmission follow this LINK


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

cowboy_ said:


> Call me stubborn but..... I'll check ATF level first. If you don't have enough ATF oil it will behave in the same way (not having enough pressure to engage the right valves, but eventually will, what you described it is happening).
> 
> It is something you can check rather quickly and if everything is ok, move on to the more complicated stuff.
> 
> To check the right fluid amount is on the transmission follow this LINK


Yes, of course, but how do I check the level?

I cant see it on the link you mentioned.

By the way, just twomonths ago the fluid was changed because the problem was already there... and I have to assume that the dealer would have checked the level. Nothing changed then.

Thanks!


Enviado desde mi iPad con Tapatalk


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

By the way, I spoke today with the ZF representative in my area. Described the problem and the fault code (17114) and he is pretty sure that all we need -as suggested on this thread- is the kit for reassembly of the valve body. I will take the car in on Friday and in the meantime try to sort out the other issues in the car...


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## Tiger0002 (Apr 23, 2013)

Waflar said:


> By the way, I spoke today with the ZF representative in my area. Described the problem and the fault code (17114) and he is pretty sure that all we need -as suggested on this thread- is the kit for reassembly of the valve body. I will take the car in on Friday and in the meantime try to sort out the other issues in the car...


Cool! Keep us posted.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Yes, of course, but how do I check the level?


Hi Martin,

The ATF level on these ZF boxes can't be checked except by topping it up.

You add fluid, wait until the diagnostics record the appropriate ATF temperature, then see if the fluid is just spilling out or not. If it just spills over, it's at the correct level.

Chris


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Paximus said:


> Hi Martin,
> 
> The ATF level on these ZF boxes can't be checked except by topping it up.
> 
> ...


ok thanks. that is what I thought.
going to ZF dealer tomorrow, we´ll see.
I have driven 2.000 kilometers in the last two days (in Spanish roads). This car is really awesome! After having owned a an Audi A8 4.2 2003 I am really shocked by the Phaeton.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Waflar said:


> Y...how do I check the [automatic transmission fluid] level?


Martin:

It is a very complex process to check the fluid level in the transmission. The car needs to be cold (in other words, not operated for the previous 12 hours), lifted up on a hoist, and you need a diagnostic scan tool as well. To see exactly how the process is done, have a look at this discussion, which specifically addresses the 5 speed transmission used in the W12 Phaeton:

....Changing Transmission Fluid, Checking Transmission Fluid Level (illustrated how-to guide)

But, I highly doubt that "low quantity of transmission fluid" is the cause of your shifting difficulties. Unless you can see some evidence of a leak of fluid from the transmission, there is no valid reason to suspect that the fluid level is low.

I do agree that the best thing to do is to take the car to a ZF service facility, and have it looked at there. There is a ZF facility in Dortmund, Germany that many Phaeton owners have praised very highly. I note that you are going to a 'ZF dealer' - you might want to first check and see if that facility is an independent shop, or a ZF operated shop. I don't know if ZF has company-operated facilities in Spain, but if they do, I would encourage you to go to a ZF operated facility, rather than an independent shop.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Here's a link to the discussion about the ZF Service Facility in Dortmund, Germany. All of the Phaeton owners who have taken their vehicles there for transmission service appear to be very happy with the quality of service provided.

ZF Gearbox Service DORTMUND! 

Michael


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi folks,

Finally brought my W12 to the ZF service.
First thing they did was to replace the valve body with a ZF kit (which updates some parts on it). Unfortunately it didn't work and the problem between 1st and 2nd gears was still there.
So... the problem is inside the gearbox  I went to see the car yesterday and it was lifted and two guys were working on it.
I guess I will have some news on monday. Hopefully, apart from the immense number of hours of labour involved, the repair will not be that expensive... we'll see.
I will keep you updated!

In the meantime I had a window regulator problem (strong noise as if something metallic had drop off inside the drivers door) which I will have to address after the gearbox issue is over.

Best,


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## Waflar (Jan 12, 2014)

Hi all,
Finally, the gearbox needed some internal work on it. I dont know in detail what has been done but I promise I will share all the information from the garage later this week, when I pick up the car. 
The good news is that it has been repaired but the car is now being serviced for oil change, filters, etc
Thanks to all for your help with this issue.


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

I am glad to hear that everything is in working order now.
PLease let us know the details of the repair once your Phaeton is fully serviced. I am sure that most W12 owners will be interested about it.

Gabriel


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## aswede (Apr 15, 2009)

Waflar said:


> Hi all,
> Finally, the gearbox needed some internal work on it. I dont know in detail what has been done but I promise I will share all the information from the garage later this week, when I pick up the car.
> The good news is that it has been repaired but the car is now being serviced for oil change, filters, etc
> Thanks to all for your help with this issue.


Hi there

Seems I have the same problem on My 2004 W12 clonk 1-2 and 2-3.
What was the problem? What parts needed to be changed? My workshop just said We try to change the transmission oil first. Price 800€ in sweden but Could not guarantee that It Would resolve the problem so I am curious what they did to your car.
Thanks in advance Jan


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

800€ is a lot for a fluid change, the fluid itself only costs a few hundred dollars (Swedish taxes on oil notwithstanding!) and it shouldn't take more than an hour. You can probably diagnose it further using VCDS, and when I had a problem the ZF email helpline were pretty good, although ultimately incorrect in their diagnosis (they said it was either the solenoids or the main shaft seal). My issue was on the 6 speed, and it was downshifts from 4-3 that were a problem. I removed the valve body (pretty easy for a transmission shop to do) and rotated the solenoids to see if the problem moved (it didn't), and I also removed some of the fluid because it was overfilled. After doing that, over time my problem has resolved to the point where it's not really happening now, I believe there's still a slight mis-timing on the downshift, but it's so slight it doesn't cause any noticeable symptoms.


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## aswede (Apr 15, 2009)

Thanks! 
I am Checking with zf on monday they have a branch here in Stockholm. Or I just live with the clonk.... it is old 2004 but I love the ride. Have another car that Can be used in the city. The Phaeton can stay at the summerhouse and I just use it for 4 hour trips on the highway to My 93 yo mom....


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

If you have a ZF place locally, I would take it there. In Dortmund, they do a complete overhaul for about the price you've been quoted for the fluid change.


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## aswede (Apr 15, 2009)

Fault codes
17114
17118
17125
All sporadic mechanical faults


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