# 50K miles carbon cleaning... shocking



## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

so last week, I got the P2050 CEL, took it to the dealer, they will replace the intake manifold under warranty as I was at 50K miles. Since they were already there, I asked about them doing carbon cleaning and how they do it (manually scraping vs just using seafoam or something) and liked what I heard, so I asked them to clean it as well. price for that was 200 for labor, 80 for shop supplies and some sort of solution and then 40 for tax. 

i was pretty confident of my engine would be clean, since for the past 20K miles, I have been using only shell 93, in hopes that it would help. I asked my service rep for pictures of how the engine was before the clean up. I got the photos before I picked up the car, and WOW. maybe clean gas isn't the answer. 





































just look at that! after only 50K miles. I just can't believe theres chunks of that deposit in there. 

im guessing at 100K miles, i will have to clean these myself, so i'll try something, to see how much it would help. i'll be using a catch can, along with mobil 1 synthetic, and seafoam before every oil change. 

another thing, i did notice my exhaust tips getting darker and darker more recently, so im curious if they are tied in some sort of way. i'll clean them this weekend, and see how fast they get really dark.


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## PhaupaBear (Jun 3, 2013)

Just had to do the same on my '09 sport at 55k


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## kcvento97 (Mar 7, 2004)

That's crazy. That looks worse than my '06 A3 when I pulled it apart at 164k miles... And that was a first gen tfsi motor running stage 2 revo for the last 130k miles. no catch can either. :facepalm:


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## Schippersss (Feb 21, 2013)

I cleaned. cylinder at 50.000km reiningins with fluid through the inlet, it is now clean. which in turn is a known issue with the TSI engines. because of the direct injection.


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## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

Schippersss said:


> I cleaned. cylinder at 50.000km reiningins with fluid through the inlet, it is now clean. which in turn is a known issue with the TSI engines. because of the direct injection.


oh i knew its an issue.... i just dont have the set up that you do. i was ready to get it done, just wasnt ready for how bad it was.


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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

Is the TSI in our cars direct injection only or is it a combination of direct and port injection? I thought I read something somewhere about it using direct injection at higher fuel use but port injection at lower levels of fuel use.


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## Schippersss (Feb 21, 2013)

Lucian1988 said:


> oh i knew its an issue.... i just dont have the set up that you do. i was ready to get it done, just wasnt ready for how bad it was.


perhaps for the next time. it is advised to do it the 50,000 km that remains clean. the cleaning fluid comes out of your country and imported by my garage.
This is cheaper than a lot to catch up the head off. this costs 200 euros and head revision in 1000?


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## S4BiT (Mar 11, 2014)

Interested also is it tied with that problem somehow that the exhaust tips are getting dark? If its so, it would be great way to expect the "full of junk" engine. Ive noticed that my exhaust tips are also covered with some dark thing, but i have the VR6 engine. I understand that this engine dont have the same problem so often but still.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

Lucian1988 said:


> so last week, I got the P2050 CEL, took it to the dealer, they will replace the intake manifold under warranty as I was at 50K miles. Since they were already there, I asked about them doing carbon cleaning and how they do it (manually scraping vs just using seafoam or something) and liked what I heard, so I asked them to clean it as well. price for that was 200 for labor, 80 for shop supplies and some sort of solution and then 40 for tax.
> 
> i was pretty confident of my engine would be clean, since for the past 20K miles, I have been using only shell 93, in hopes that it would help. I asked my service rep for pictures of how the engine was before the clean up. I got the photos before I picked up the car, and WOW. maybe clean gas isn't the answer.
> 
> ...


Damn, that's a lot of carbon. Do you rev your engine often pass 5k rpm? 

The reason I asked is because I read that direct injected engines needs to be blown out every now and then by using some high rpm sprints.

Most of the time my engine never sees pass 4k rpm unless I put it manual mode and hold the gears, which I will do more often after looking at what could happen if the carbon build-up is left unchecked.


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## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

Carguy10 said:


> Damn, that's a lot of carbon. Do you rev your engine often pass 5k rpm?
> 
> The reason I asked is because I read that direct injected engines needs to be blown out every now and then by using some high rpm sprints.
> 
> Most of the time my engine never sees pass 4k rpm unless I put it manual mode and hold the gears, which I will do more often after looking at what could happen if the carbon build-up is left unchecked.


not too often, id say once a week/ 2 weeks. i guess from now on, i will have to do it more often. if not, use some seafoam... see how that works.


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## S4BiT (Mar 11, 2014)

About the seafoam, some horror stories included.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6391599#post6391599


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## DavidPaul (Nov 28, 2009)

Carguy10 said:


> Damn, that's a lot of carbon. Do you rev your engine often pass 5k rpm?
> 
> The reason I asked is because I read that direct injected engines needs to be blown out every now and then by using some high rpm sprints.
> 
> Most of the time my engine never sees pass 4k rpm unless I put it manual mode and hold the gears, which I will do more often after looking at what could happen if the carbon build-up is left unchecked.


Carbon cleaning a direct injected engine using high RPMs does absolutely nothing.

What I have heard that works quite well in keeping these engines clean is using water injection.

Here is a little blurb about it.

http://www.torquecars.com/tuning/water-injection.php


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## S4BiT (Mar 11, 2014)

As the fuel injection is no more thru the intake and is straight, the water-meth injection have to help to clean the intake. But if its already full of shi* you have to still clean it first, i dont think that the w/m can clean it up. But for holding it clean, i think it works for shure.


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## OEMplusCC (Jan 27, 2013)

Lucian1988 said:


> so last week, I got the P2050 CEL, took it to the dealer, they will replace the intake manifold under warranty as I was at 50K miles. Since they were already there, I asked about them doing carbon cleaning and how they do it (manually scraping vs just using seafoam or something) and liked what I heard, so I asked them to clean it as well. price for that was 200 for labor, 80 for shop supplies and some sort of solution and then 40 for tax.


Did you notice any telltale sings of carbon build up or intake manifold? Or did the code show up of the blue ?

Since my car is at 41k i am kind of expecting this to happen 

Thanks


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

DavidPaul said:


> Carbon cleaning a direct injected engine using high RPMs does absolutely nothing.
> 
> What I have heard that works quite well in keeping these engines clean is using water injection.
> 
> ...


I would rather tried blowing out the engine using high rpm burst as a preventive solution as opposed to direct injecting water in the cylinders, your idea may work on regular fuel injected engines but I would be reluctant to try it on my direct injected engine, especially when I read about rust being a potential problem of the process in the article you posted.

However , the best method is to have it removed like the OP have done.


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## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

OEMplusCC said:


> Did you notice any telltale sings of carbon build up or intake manifold? Or did the code show up of the blue ?
> 
> Since my car is at 41k i am kind of expecting this to happen
> 
> Thanks


well, now that Im reminded how the engine is when clean, I can tell i had carbon build up. im going to clean my exhaust tips, and monitor oil usage and the type of oil I use. wonder if mobil 1 is more prone to carbon build up than castrol. I have a vag com cable, and i randomly like to scan my car for codes, at every 10K intervals, and this time I had a soft code. code was registered, but didnt show a CEL. i researched it and all. 2 days later, CEL came on, took it to the dealer and confirmed it.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

Lucian1988 said:


> well, now that Im reminded how the engine is when clean, I can tell i had carbon build up. im going to clean my exhaust tips, and monitor oil usage and the type of oil I use. wonder if mobil 1 is more prone to carbon build up than castrol. I have a vag com cable, and i randomly like to scan my car for codes, at every 10K intervals, and this time I had a soft code. code was registered, but didnt show a CEL. i researched it and all. 2 days later, CEL came on, took it to the dealer and confirmed it.


What oil did you use before?


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## DavidPaul (Nov 28, 2009)

Carguy10 said:


> I would rather tried blowing out the engine using high rpm burst as a preventive solution as opposed to direct injecting water in the cylinders, your idea may work on regular fuel injected engines but I would be reluctant to try it on my direct injected engine, especially when I read about rust being a potential problem of the process in the article you posted.
> 
> However , the best method is to have it removed like the OP have done.


You are welcome to use the high RPM, "blow it out" method until you are blue in the face. IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK!!

Apparently you have no clue what Direct Injection is.

However, good luck with your future endeavor. 

Yes, removing the head is the only to clean it after the fact but the valves will definitely carbon up again unless proven maintenance methods are used. No, it still is not high RPM driving


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## DavidPaul (Nov 28, 2009)

Lucian1988 said:


> well, now that Im reminded how the engine is when clean, I can tell i had carbon build up. im going to clean my exhaust tips, and monitor oil usage and the type of oil I use. wonder if mobil 1 is more prone to carbon build up than castrol. I have a vag com cable, and i randomly like to scan my car for codes, at every 10K intervals, and this time I had a soft code. code was registered, but didnt show a CEL. i researched it and all. 2 days later, CEL came on, took it to the dealer and confirmed it.


The brand of engine oil you use has nothing to do with valve carbon. It is strictly a result of direct injection which involves gasoline, not oil. Unless, of course, your engine is shot to hell and is burning oil at an excessive rate.

Your black exhaust tips have to do with the richness of the fuel, air mixture.

My CC and my Eos both have nice, really cute little chrome exhaust tips. And no matter how much I clean them until they look like jewels, after a short time, they are black again. It has to do with the richness of the fuel/air ratio. 

My 13 CC has 16,000 miles on the odometer. My 09 Eos has 13,000 miles on the odometer. Neither one of these vehicles have any noticeable oil loss between 6,000 mile changes. Both of these vehicles have black exhaust tips after about 1,200 miles.


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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

Actually I read that the type of oil you use could be part of the problem. Some people say that the additives in the oil can cause carbon build up. That the oil could be an issue is easy to see: the carbon could only be coming from the blow by gasses that get vented back into the intake (unless you drive through coal mines). The carbon doesn't come (directly) from the fuel because it gets injected below the valves (though unburned fuel could make it into the crankcase).


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## Schippersss (Feb 21, 2013)

jbg7474 said:


> Actually I read that the type of oil you use could be part of the problem. Some people say that the additives in the oil can cause carbon build up. That the oil could be an issue is easy to see: the carbon could only be coming from the blow by gasses that get vented back into the intake (unless you drive through coal mines). The carbon doesn't come (directly) from the fuel because it gets injected below the valves (though unburned fuel could make it into the crankcase).



that's good. but if there had been indirect injection had been no problem, hence the direct injection is the problem. with indirect injection is injected for the valves and so the valves cleaned. the new tsi have dual injectors, direct and indirect, and thus solved the problem.


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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

Schippersss said:


> that's good. but if there had been indirect injection had been no problem, hence the direct injection is the problem. with indirect injection is injected for the valves and so the valves cleaned. the new tsi have dual injectors, direct and indirect, and thus solved the problem.


I agree, except that the source of the carbon is the same whether it is direct injection or not. I did read something somewhere (that I can no longer find) that said there is a TSI or TFSI engine that uses both direct injection as well as indirect injection. Do you have a source for that? And is that version of TSI in any CCs or VWs at all?


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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

Never mind. I found some info on it. It looks like the EA888 Gen 3 includes this scheme (MPFI + DI). From what I understand, the CC 2.0TSI is the EA888 Gen 1, even in the most recent model years. But I don't know how to determine that for sure.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/muupublic/share/18TFSI.pdf


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## Schippersss (Feb 21, 2013)

only in dutch. is on the 2nd phase of the injection 2.0TSI.

http://www.seatbakker.nl/seat-leon-cupra-280-.html


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## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

Carguy10 said:


> What oil did you use before?


i had the dealer use Castrol OEM oil. at 40K I Switched to Mobil 1 full synthetic, which is a 0W 40 compared to castrol, which is 5W 30.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

DavidPaul said:


> You are welcome to use the high RPM, "blow it out" method until you are blue in the face. IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK!!
> 
> Apparently you have no clue what Direct Injection is.
> 
> ...


Yes, i know how direct injection works thank you very much. I use high rpm sprints to hopefully loosen the carbon deposits and blow them out before they build up,key word being hopefully.

Do you know for a fact that high rpm bursts will not help in preventing excessive carbon build-up? No, so keep you ignorant comments to yourself until you can bring proof to the table.

Good luck with your water injection cleaning method. I am sure some WD-40 will loosen your rusty parts after you do the method on your CC


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## MikeinNJ (May 9, 2007)

The italian tune up method is actually mentioned in a VW patent for these engines:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1316794#post1316794


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

MikeinNJ said:


> The italian tune up method is actually mentioned in a VW patent for these engines:
> 
> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1316794#post1316794


Great link!! I read the part about how high rpms is supposed to prevent car buildup on the pistons in the patent link. Nissan also recommend high rpm sprints for the VQ V6 and the VK V8 engines to prevent carbon buildup,which is pretty common in those engines as well.


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

DavidPaul said:


> The brand of engine oil you use has nothing to do with valve carbon. It is strictly a result of direct injection which involves gasoline, not oil. Unless, of course, your engine is shot to hell and is burning oil at an excessive rate.
> 
> Your black exhaust tips have to do with the richness of the fuel, air mixture.
> 
> ...


Oil gets in to the intake track and burned with the fuel, adding to the carbon issue. So oil a factor too. Here's mine from yesterday at only 17k miles! I did a lot if idling this winter for warmup.


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## spaceman_spiff (Sep 7, 2001)

*rubs eyes*

Ok, after two read-throughs, am I correct in understanding this is just how it is and there's nothing you can do about it? I'm always using Top Tier 93 fuel in my car (Shell mostly), and have historically always used Mobil 1 0-40. Sooooooo... I just wait and watch?

As for the "Italian tune up", it's always been explained to me that this cleans out the combustion and exhaust areas of the engine, not the intake, so I'm in the crowd of not thinking that's the official answer here, but what do I know?


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## dakkar (Oct 19, 2013)

wouldnt bg44k work?


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

spaceman_spiff said:


> *rubs eyes*
> 
> Ok, after two read-throughs, am I correct in understanding this is just how it is and there's nothing you can do about it? I'm always using Top Tier 93 fuel in my car (Shell mostly), and have historically always used Mobil 1 0-40. Sooooooo... I just wait and watch?
> 
> As for the "Italian tune up", it's always been explained to me that this cleans out the combustion and exhaust areas of the engine, not the intake, so I'm in the crowd of not thinking that's the official answer here, but what do I know?


A catch can MAY help some. Lots of people run them. My issue is that it freezes here in MN so the can is somewhat if a liability in the winter. 

Fwiw that carbon I had on mine had no impact on performance. I log my car a lot and didn't see anything bad going on and my 3000-6500 rpm times in third hear on my logging road have not gone down (this is a poor man's dyno measuring this 3-6.5k time time by logging).


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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

spaceman_spiff said:


> *rubs eyes*
> 
> Ok, after two read-throughs, am I correct in understanding this is just how it is and there's nothing you can do about it? I'm always using Top Tier 93 fuel in my car (Shell mostly), and have historically always used Mobil 1 0-40. Sooooooo... I just wait and watch?
> 
> As for the "Italian tune up", it's always been explained to me that this cleans out the combustion and exhaust areas of the engine, not the intake, so I'm in the crowd of not thinking that's the official answer here, but what do I know?


From what I've read, I think there's not much to be done about it. However, I have read some comments that say the people who have the worst problem with this are the ones who do not use VW spec oil. It is quite possible that the baffles and whatnot that are part of the design to keep oil out of the vented blow by gasses would be less effective with different weights. It is also possible that different additives in the oil might gunk up differently. I think a properly implemented catch can would also have to help, but the anecdotal evidence on this seems to be inconclusive.

I haven't read the patent on the higher rpm / load run, but there are two reasons why it might work (at least on the valves): substantial airflow could keep some gunk from forming in the first place and the higher heat could cook off some of it as well.


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## usaf-lt-g (May 16, 2012)

Does this issue typically only apply to those folks running the 2.0T engine? Or would this also apply to the VR6 engine?

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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

usaf-lt-g said:


> Does this issue typically only apply to those folks running the 2.0T engine? Or would this also apply to the VR6 engine?
> 
> Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk


That's an excellent question. It is also direct injection, no? But maybe the VR6 has fewer blow by gasses since it isn't forced induction.


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## TDI Driver (Jan 17, 2006)

jbg7474 said:


> That's an excellent question. It is also direct injection, no? But maybe the VR6 has fewer blow by gasses since it isn't forced induction.


We have had several 3.6 VR6 vehicles come in for carbon cleaning. Unfortunately it's common on most VW/Audi direct injection engines. However you are correct that it does have significantly less oil vapor build up than with the 2.0T.

Unfortunately no fuel additives will alleviate the issue, though some such as BG 44k do help keep the surface of the valve (the bottom side) cleaner.

However we have found that people that take their cars to the track and drive them very hard on a regular basis have significantly less carbon build-up on their valves.


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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

TDI Driver said:


> We have had several 3.6 VR6 vehicles come in for carbon cleaning. Unfortunately it's common on most VW/Audi direct injection engines. However you are correct that it does have significantly less oil vapor build up than with the 2.0T.
> 
> Unfortunately no fuel additives will alleviate the issue, though some such as BG 44k do help keep the surface of the valve (the bottom side) cleaner.
> 
> However we have found that people that take their cars to the track and drive them very hard on a regular basis have significantly less carbon build-up on their valves.


Welp, I guess I'm gonna have to start driving like a maniac!


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

jbg7474 said:


> Welp, I guess I'm gonna have to start driving like a maniac!


LOL. I just put my shifter in manual mode and hold the gears to redline every now and then so that the engine rev past 5k. 

Of course I do drive pretty fast on the highway sometimes to help blow some of the carbon out the heads also:thumbup:


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## Dubunderpar (Jul 27, 2013)

Mine at 42k


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## German Car Driver (Apr 27, 2014)

*Carbon*



Dubunderpar said:


> Mine at 42k


O.K. guys. I'm new to this forum and just sold my 02 1.8T GTI and bought a 2006 A3. I have spent the last few hours researching this carbon build up problem and watched a few videos on facetube. It seems the most popular solution is to run seafoam through the intake air sensor port with a piece of hose and a ball pump needle. 
There's even a guy using a weed sprayer with mineral spirits. I'm not sure if that would damage the O2 sensor or CAT though.
If I'm not mistaken, the "Italian tune up" method of driving for 20 minutes above 3,000 rpm was actually recommended by VW/Audi, so there must be something there. 
I did find a new product which looks promising. Its called Intake Valve Cleaner by CRC and you basically sneak the straw in behind the Mas Air Flow Sensor and spray away with the engine running. Let it sit for an hour to soak into the carbon, then take it for a hard drive to burn it off. 
Unlike Seafoam, this product is specifically designed for carbon build up on intake valves and CRC does make some pretty good stuff so I'm optimistic. It even has a 2.0 FSI engine on the instruction example.
I'm going to try it out in the morning.

Here's their website. crcintakevalve.com


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

German Car Driver said:


> O.K. guys. I'm new to this forum and just sold my 02 1.8T GTI and bought a 2006 A3. I have spent the last few hours researching this carbon build up problem and watched a few videos on facetube. It seems the most popular solution is to run seafoam through the intake air sensor port with a piece of hose and a ball pump needle.
> There's even a guy using a weed sprayer with mineral spirits. I'm not sure if that would damage the O2 sensor or CAT though.
> If I'm not mistaken, the "Italian tune up" method of driving for 20 minutes above 3,000 rpm was actually recommended by VW/Audi, so there must be something there.
> I did find a new product which looks promising. Its called Intake Valve Cleaner by CRC and you basically sneak the straw in behind the Mas Air Flow Sensor and spray away with the engine running. Let it sit for an hour to soak into the carbon, then take it for a hard drive to burn it off.
> ...


Someone with a bore camera needs to try a few of these methods and show before and after photos. I'm tempted to get one of those cameras for a number of reasons anyway. Hmmm.


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## German Car Driver (Apr 27, 2014)

Spinozaman said:


> Someone with a bore camera needs to try a few of these methods and show before and after photos. I'm tempted to get one of those cameras for a number of reasons anyway. Hmmm.


I couldn't agree more. I just sprayed this stuff into the air intake downwind of the MAF. The engine stuttered a bit and it took about 2 - 3 minutes to unload the whole can in there. Now I have to wait an hour, then take it for a drive. One thing I did notice is there was no white smoke like you see with the seafoam treatment. Maybe this stuff just loosens the carbon or maybe it burns off when you take it for the drive after its soaked in. 

Does anyone know if the seafoam smoke is crud burning off or just the seafoam itself burning? Would be interesting to see if you still get the same smoke on a brand new, clean engine.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Id be very interested in the outcome of this CRC product.

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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

Turb02 said:


> Id be very interested in the outcome of this CRC product.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


+1000


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

Well mine are cleaned now since I had the gunk manually removed. Someone needs to solve this ... Any takers?? 

All you need is a bore camera, building inspection camera or one of many other camera options to snake in the intake tract. They are available on amazon for like $40 last time I looked. This really wouldn't take that long at all.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Spinozaman said:


> Well mine are cleaned now since I had the gunk manually removed. Someone needs to solve this ... Any takers??
> 
> All you need is a bore camera, building inspection camera or one of many other camera options to snake in the intake tract. They are available on amazon for like $40 last time I looked. This really wouldn't take that long at all.


Im sure they are, since they were manually cleaned. If there's a less invasive way to clean them, that would appeal to many.

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## S4BiT (Mar 11, 2014)

Spinozaman said:


> Someone with a bore camera needs to try a few of these methods and show before and after photos. I'm tempted to get one of those cameras for a number of reasons anyway. Hmmm.


This! It can be the only proof of this product really. Im interested also about it if its going to clean the valves, even half-way.


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

here ya go... a $20 camera should get it done...

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Endoscope-Borescope-Inspection-Camera/dp/B00AF1UMJ8/ref=pd_cp_p_3


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## German Car Driver (Apr 27, 2014)

Turb02 said:


> Id be very interested in the outcome of this CRC product.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


Well, I waited the hour then took the car out and gave it a good hiding. Still no white smoke, but I did notice some soot on the bottom of the rear bumper above the exhaust pipes, which wasn't there before started. I can't really tell if it improved idling or performance because mine was fine to begin with. I just ran it as more of a preventative maintenance measure. 
I do know this stuff is quite thick and oily and doesn't evaporate. Maybe it soaks into the carbon and loosens it over time rather than burning it off.


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## jigubhai2001 (Oct 23, 2012)

I do have a Bore-cam on a flex extension. I have had plans to do a before/after pictures with seafoam for a while now, but have not had a chance to do it. This CRC cleaner option looks promising enough to give it a shot. I am busy for a next couple of weeks, but definitely will be looking to do this as soon as I have some free time.


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

jigubhai2001 said:


> I do have a Bore-cam on a flex extension. I have had plans to do a before/after pictures with seafoam for a while now, but have not had a chance to do it. This CRC cleaner option looks promising enough to give it a shot. I am busy for a next couple of weeks, but definitely will be looking to do this as soon as I have some free time.


Very much looking forward to the results!!


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

Spinozaman said:


> here ya go... a $20 camera should get it done...
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-Endoscope-Borescope-Inspection-Camera/dp/B00AF1UMJ8/ref=pd_cp_p_3


I bought one of the cheap ones and didnt get very good results. You might need to drop a little bit more dough to see it good.


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## German Car Driver (Apr 27, 2014)

Well, after the CRC intake valve cleaner yesterday I took my 150 mile weekly drive from work. I usually get 30 mpg and today I got 32 and it did seem to perform a little better. As mentioned I guess the only way to tell for sure is have a look inside, but for the price and the few minutes it takes to spray I think its worth looking at. To be fair, I did also add a bottle of Techron fuel injector cleaner too so Its not a completely fair test. 
I just feel better using a product that is actually designed for this one purpose. I'm sure the guys that developed this stuff did their homework before they put it on the shelves. 

I would be interested to see what results, if any, everyone else gets, and the first guy to show before and after pics deserves a case of beer! (German of course.)


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

German Car Driver said:


> Well, after the CRC intake valve cleaner yesterday I took my 150 mile weekly drive from work. I usually get 30 mpg and today I got 32 and it did seem to perform a little better. As mentioned I guess the only way to tell for sure is have a look inside, but for the price and the few minutes it takes to spray I think its worth looking at. To be fair, I did also add a bottle of Techron fuel injector cleaner too so Its not a completely fair test.
> I just feel better using a product that is actually designed for this one purpose. I'm sure the guys that developed this stuff did their homework before they put it on the shelves.
> 
> I would be interested to see what results, if any, everyone else gets, and the first guy to show before and after pics deserves a case of beer! (German of course.)


Well, I won't win that free case of beer unless someone around here wants to lend me a boroscope. But I did the CRC treatment about 45 minutes ago and am about to go for my ten minute test drive. I had my head group changed out at 50K miles (including intake valves) and am at 66K miles now. So I'm hoping this method will help me keep ahead of any carbon intake valve issues. I'll probably do it once per year, and we'll see if I ever have any issues from carbon build up.

/edit. Well, the test drive was a bit more eventful than I had hoped. I drove about five minutes before I was in a spot where I could stretch the car's legs a bit. As soon as I got on the throttle, my check engine light started blinking and the EPC light came on. I slowed down and turned for home just as the check engine light went off. EPC remained. Got home, plugged in Vag-Com and found Cyl 3 misfire. Walked to the trunk, grabbed a coil pack, swapped it out, cleared the code and continued the test drive. All went well. And now, we wait.


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## spaceman_spiff (Sep 7, 2001)

Ok guys, time to pony up and get on the borescope/inspecion camera wagon. I bought a cheapo Harbor Freight model for $250-something about 2 years ago and it's stupid-handy. And it ain't just for looking into your engine... check inside brake pads? Noodle around in your interior? Drop a screw? Where's that leak coming from? How am I going to fish this wire through that tiny little hole way up in there?

Seriously, I use it about 100x more than my VCDS, and I'd never run without that.


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## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

they had a spring sale a few weeks ago, and had it for sale for $80... i should have bought it... now i'll wait till next time!


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

I think I saw a boroscope camera at Walmart, in the automotive dept, for $64. "Whistler" brand color inspection camera.


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## DunKeL GraU (Jul 12, 2008)

So I just had this issue, CEL popped on at 33K. Brought it to the dealer and they said it was misfire codes and attributed it to the carbon build up and that it wasn't covered under warranty. I obviously flipped out. 

The dealer told me to call VWOA which I did and was told someone would get back to me at the latest the end of NEXT business day. So now I'm out of a car for possibly two days. 

I had the dealer clear the code since it was not misfiring and I declined the carbon cleaning service for 178 plus tax. 

I picked the car up today and service advisor told me that as a goodwill offer they will perform a carbon service with a new chemical
That VW is using (I'm assuming this is the TSB service I've read about on the forums but the service advisor wasn't familiar). So I'm kinda happy with that. 

Then VWOA regional calls me and gives me the same rhetoric about bad gas and outside influences causing the carbon problem. What a joke VW. I asked them what I am doing to cause this problem since I have to pay for it to be fixed and she tells me bad gas. I said I use only premium and she tells me then it's outside influences. 

So I guess I will wait and see how this new chemical works and if it happens again during my warranty period I will fight VWOA. I love the car but this may be my last VW. They
just don't stand behind the product and basically want me to believe the BS of bad gas and outside influences. 

Oh and BTw she also told me that this is a maintenance issue to which I respond, OK where is it documented in my manual at what time or
Mileage that I need to have this maintenance issue performed to which of course she states it's not in the manual. WTF?!?! VW, just man up and take care of the obvious flaw in the product!!


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

DunKeL GraU said:


> I had the dealer clear the code since it was not misfiring and I declined the carbon cleaning service for 178 plus tax.


What was included with the $178 plus tax? Was it a chemical treatment or a physical removal of the carbon?


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## Javelina (Mar 18, 2014)

DunKeL GraU said:


> So I just had this issue, CEL popped on at 33K. Brought it to the dealer and they said it was misfire codes and attributed it to the carbon build up and that it wasn't covered under warranty. I obviously flipped out.
> 
> The dealer told me to call VWOA which I did and was told someone would get back to me at the latest the end of NEXT business day. So now I'm out of a car for possibly two days.
> 
> ...


Did they happen to give the name of the chemical mix they were using or any detail of how the treatment was applied?


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## SavageJedi (Nov 29, 2013)

Havent been on here in a while but I find the thread interesting because I logged on to find about carbon cleaning. smh Ive got a used 2010 sport at 60k and when it popped the misfire cell, i thought, to easy. Now, after coil packs and spark plugs i hear about carbon build up. Im planning a trip to either the or an auto shop.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Where can this mythical product be bought? I cant find it at Advanced, O'Reilly, Wal-Mart...anywhere!

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## Javelina (Mar 18, 2014)

SavageJedi said:


> Havent been on here in a while but I find the thread interesting because I logged on to find about carbon cleaning. smh Ive got a used 2010 sport at 60k and when it popped the misfire cell, i thought, to easy. Now, after coil packs and spark plugs i hear about carbon build up. Im planning a trip to either the or an auto shop.


I'm in a similar boat with a 2012. I'm thinking about doing the clean up myself, but if there's a simpler way, I'd like to know more.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

Turb02 said:


> Where can this mythical product be bought? I cant find it at Advanced, O'Reilly, Wal-Mart...anywhere!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


I found it at Autozone.


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## DunKeL GraU (Jul 12, 2008)

I have an update. My local dealer decided that they would do a one time carbon clean service and that they would goodwill it. I said fine and they will call me when the parts (I'm guessing some kind of cleaning substance) come in. 

Then after I left the dealer VWOA called me and explained what the dealer had already told me. I asked that if I had the problem again after this cleaning but during the warranty period if service would be covered and they once again said no. I was given the bad gas and outside influence rhetoric from the rep.i also got into it about them
Calling it a maintenance issue to which she had no valid argument back to me except that she understands my frustration. I told them I was very unhappy and they seem to care less. So I will see how this goodwill service works out and if the issue arises again I will raise hell again. Not very reassuring about the product.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

dcbc said:


> I found it at Autozone.


The one chain I never go to...thanks.



DunKeL GraU said:


> I have an update. My local dealer decided that they would do a one time carbon clean service and that they would goodwill it. I said fine and they will call me when the parts (I'm guessing some kind of cleaning substance) come in.
> 
> Then after I left the dealer VWOA called me and explained what the dealer had already told me. I asked that if I had the problem again after this cleaning but during the warranty period if service would be covered and they once again said no. I was given the bad gas and outside influence rhetoric from the rep.i also got into it about them
> Calling it a maintenance issue to which she had no valid argument back to me except that she understands my frustration. I told them I was very unhappy and they seem to care less. So I will see how this goodwill service works out and if the issue arises again I will raise hell again. Not very reassuring about the product.


I'm guessing their "good will" cleaning isn't physically scraping the valves? It's just the substance cleaning, right? I'd ask them to scope the valves before and after so you can see what the VW valve cleaner actually does. That cleaning is around 180 @ my local dealer.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

dcbc said:


> I found it at Autozone.


The one chain I never go to...thanks.



DunKeL GraU said:


> I have an update. My local dealer decided that they would do a one time carbon clean service and that they would goodwill it. I said fine and they will call me when the parts (I'm guessing some kind of cleaning substance) come in.
> 
> Then after I left the dealer VWOA called me and explained what the dealer had already told me. I asked that if I had the problem again after this cleaning but during the warranty period if service would be covered and they once again said no. I was given the bad gas and outside influence rhetoric from the rep.i also got into it about them
> Calling it a maintenance issue to which she had no valid argument back to me except that she understands my frustration. I told them I was very unhappy and they seem to care less. So I will see how this goodwill service works out and if the issue arises again I will raise hell again. Not very reassuring about the product.


I'm guessing their "good will" cleaning isn't physically scraping the valves? It's just the substance cleaning, right? I'd ask them to scope the valves before and after so you can see what the VW valve cleaner actually does. That cleaning is around 180 @ my local dealer.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## German Car Driver (Apr 27, 2014)

Turb02 said:


> Where can this mythical product be bought? I cant find it at Advanced, O'Reilly, Wal-Mart...anywhere!
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


I bought mine at Autozone too but I think NAPA also stocks it.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

German Car Driver said:


> I bought mine at Autozone too but I think NAPA also stocks it.


Yep, I stopped by AutoZone on my way to work this evening. 

One question though; Why shoot it behind the MAF, when the valves are so far downstream from that location? Wouldnt you think more product would get on the valves if you did it at/behind the throttle body? I watched a "sales" video that was taken at a booth of some car show or somewhere, and they also mentioned doing it behind the throttle body...30 second bursts until the can was empty, then shut the car off for 1 hour, then go drive it.


Dont you think a lot of the product would settle in the intercooler if done behind the MAF?


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

Turb02 said:


> Yep, I stopped by AutoZone on my way to work this evening.
> 
> One question though; Why shoot it behind the MAF, when the valves are so far downstream from that location? Wouldnt you think more product would get on the valves if you did it at/behind the throttle body? I watched a "sales" video that was taken at a booth of some car show or somewhere, and they also mentioned doing it behind the throttle body...30 second bursts until the can was empty, then shut the car off for 1 hour, then go drive it.
> 
> ...


I was worried about the product in the intercooler too.


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## JustinCSVT (Oct 3, 2004)

It's a German DI engine. There's nothing you can really do to prevent it.

GM said the only thing to help stop carbon buildup is better management of oil by the PCV system and camshaft timing. And their DI engines rearely have any problems with it.

I haven't seen any bad news on BMW's N55 engines but the N54's are notorious for carbon buildup. Had it done on my 335 and have no doubt the CC will need it eventually. Just part of the game.

I wonder if VW dealers are using media blasting like BMW because that seemed to be the only true method of eliminating the carbon. From my research on the BMW forums, the chemical treatments did absolutely nothing.


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Well now I wait an hour

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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

Er-ma-ferken-gerd. So far, with a "warm start" the difference is night and day...in my case. I'll report back tomorrow with a "cold start" report. 

Hopefully this clears up my stumble under soft load in high gear. So far so good though.

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## German Car Driver (Apr 27, 2014)

Turb02 said:


> Er-ma-ferken-gerd. So far, with a "warm start" the difference is night and day...in my case. I'll report back tomorrow with a "cold start" report.
> 
> Hopefully this clears up my stumble under soft load in high gear. So far so good though.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


Did you spray it just down wind of the MAF as suggested?


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

German Car Driver said:


> Did you spray it just down wind of the MAF as suggested?


For the most part, only because I was by myself and couldn't keep it idling when trying the throttle body area. I did also spray directly into the intake manifold where the PCV connects.

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## DunKeL GraU (Jul 12, 2008)

JustinCSVT said:


> It's a German DI engine. There's nothing you can really do to prevent it.
> 
> GM said the only thing to help stop carbon buildup is better management of oil by the PCV system and camshaft timing. And their DI engines rearely have any problems with it.
> 
> ...


The dealer originally said that they would media blast with the walnut substance and that it would cost me around 180. I think the process that they are going to try through goodwill is not that process. I think it is a spray type procedure.


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## DunKeL GraU (Jul 12, 2008)

Turb02 said:


> The one chain I never go to...thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure you are right about the scraping. And yes that is what my dealer quoted also.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

I couldn't keep mine from stalling even when spraying just past the MAF sensor. I had to get my wife to give it a little throttle the whole time. Even then, it would stall if she didn't stay on it.



Turb02 said:


> For the most part, only because I was by myself and couldn't keep it idling when trying the throttle body area. I did also spray directly into the intake manifold where the PCV connects.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


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## Turb02 (Jul 15, 2010)

I had to improvise a foot. So I used a block of 2x6's I use to drive on so I can get a jack under my car...

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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

Turb02 said:


> I had to improvise a foot. So I used a block of 2x6's I use to drive on so I can get a jack under my car...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk


Looked around and thought about using a couple of blocks I had chocking my boat trailer tires, but they weren't heavy enough.


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## milan187 (Mar 15, 2009)

Dealer took a look at my car today for rough idle and guess what. They stayed Engine is FULL OF CARBON. I'm at 72,000km. That's less then 50k miles. They want 530 plus tax to do cleaning. I will hold off for now. 

They did say if carbon caused a misfire or check engine light they would cover cleaning under warranty.


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## DunKeL GraU (Jul 12, 2008)

milan187 said:


> Dealer took a look at my car today for rough idle and guess what. They stayed Engine is FULL OF CARBON. I'm at 72,000km. That's less then 50k miles. They want 530 plus tax to do cleaning. I will hold off for now.
> 
> They did say if carbon caused a misfire or check engine light they would cover cleaning under warranty.



That for sure is good that the dealer has agreed to do a cleaning under warranty. Maybe VW is acknowledging that this is an issue and they will start doing the right thing.


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## German Car Driver (Apr 27, 2014)

I decided to use Liqui Moly valve cleaner instead of SeaFoam and apply directly to the intake manifold, then use the CRC intake valve cleaner every 10,000 miles just before I change the oil. The Castrol Syntec is recommended by VW/Audi and has good deposit fighting characteristics. In the mean time, I'm staying away from Valero gas and only using top tier fuel from now on. Every now and again I will give the engine a good thrashing and keep it in 5th for 10 minutes on the highway to keep the engine above 3,000 rpm. 

I did notice a slight difference, but I've come to the conclusion that the above is good preventative maintenance only. Once you're choked up with carbon, anything other than a pro cleaning isn't likely to do much.


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## ExNorth (May 18, 2014)

Maybe if we keep the Carbon in long enough we'll get diamonds!

:laugh:


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## nolesfan (Mar 9, 2011)

I've got a 2013 GLI with the gen 3 EA888, which is MAFless. I have just under 13k miles on it now, and am interested in finding a way to if not prevent, at least slow down or lessen the carbon deposit issue. My understanding is that not even catch cans are doing much for this and that there really isn't much that can be done. FYI, the gen 3 ea333 still is direct injected, not partial direct as some have thought. That MAY be on the gen 3 equipped GTI, but I don't think it will be on the one for the North American market.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

The only thing that might slow down carbon deposits is a good catch-can for the PCV system, or a VTA PCV set-up (messy). The carbon deposits are caused by fuel and oil compounds being "baked" onto the intake valves due to the EGR system used in these engines (large valve timing overlap to flow some exhaust gas backwards thru the intake valve, into the intake manifold, so that it then gets sucked back into the cylinder during the intake stroke).


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

A water meth injection system should lessen the carbon buildup. Think of it as an injection in the intake piping that washes the valves on the way to the engine. Of course a water meth system has it's own negatives like needing to be filled on a regular basis. 

There are no good solutions I've heard of.


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## milan187 (Mar 15, 2009)

Most amazing thing just happened.

Dealer will clean my intake ports for free under warranty. No other issue, no CEL, no intake manifold replacement, nothing.
I asked them about it last time (they checked with boroscope) and they gave me a quote of $500+ to do it and I said I'll wait.
This morning they call me back and tell me that its been approved to done under warranty.
This made my day for sure.


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## jbg7474 (Apr 16, 2014)

milan187 said:


> Most amazing thing just happened.
> 
> Dealer will clean my intake ports for free under warranty. No other issue, no CEL, no intake manifold replacement, nothing.
> I asked them about it last time (they checked with boroscope) and they gave me a quote of $500+ to do it and I said I'll wait.
> ...


That is an awesome precedent. So the only symptom you presented to them was rough idle? Did you go there specifically for that, or did you just mention it at a regular service?


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## milan187 (Mar 15, 2009)

jbg7474 said:


> That is an awesome precedent. So the only symptom you presented to them was rough idle? Did you go there specifically for that, or did you just mention it at a regular service?


I was in for a regular service and mentioned the rough idle if they could take a look at it. The rough idle is only there on cold start.


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## TexasSkunk (Jul 3, 2014)

milan187 said:


> Most amazing thing just happened.
> 
> Dealer will clean my intake ports for free under warranty. No other issue, no CEL, no intake manifold replacement, nothing.
> I asked them about it last time (they checked with boroscope) and they gave me a quote of $500+ to do it and I said I'll wait.
> ...


I'm almost at 70k miles, and im nervous to see what my engine looks like!

you said, "they gave me a quote of $500+...". 
why so much if everyone else can get this done for ~$200??

is the $200 quote for the chemical cleaning, and the $500 quote for the manual removal?


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## Lucian1988 (Mar 25, 2009)

TexasSkunk said:


> I'm almost at 70k miles, and im nervous to see what my engine looks like!
> 
> you said, "they gave me a quote of $500+...".
> why so much if everyone else can get this done for ~$200??
> ...


i can imgagine 200 is for the chemical cleaning. I dont see how a tech can clean and manually scrape for 200.


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

This is caused by the crankcase ventilation system. Oil is a contributor and so is gas. Driving the car more aggressively will help but not solve the issue. Changing your oil at 5k instead of 10k will help too. Integrated engineering has a fix for this. It's like 200 bucks. My thing is that a manufacturer is going to have issues with a mass produced motor... All of them have them. It's up to you as a owner to take care of the car and fix anything that is a flaw or Broken. Direct injection is a wonderful thing. Beside the carbon issues I love my 2.0t but I have the IE fix and now issues. Had it from 53000 to 108k and clean as a whistle. Plus changing my oil at 5k using castrol syntec 5w40


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

92vrcorrado said:


> This is caused by the crankcase ventilation system. Oil is a contributor and so is gas. Driving the car more aggressively will help but not solve the issue. Changing your oil at 5k instead of 10k will help too. Integrated engineering has a fix for this. It's like 200 bucks. My thing is that a manufacturer is going to have issues with a mass produced motor... All of them have them. It's up to you as a owner to take care of the car and fix anything that is a flaw or Broken. Direct injection is a wonderful thing. Beside the carbon issues I love my 2.0t but I have the IE fix and now issues. Had it from 53000 to 108k and clean as a whistle. Plus changing my oil at 5k using castrol syntec 5w40


Do you have a link to what you're using?

/edit. I assume it's this? How was the install?

http://www.performancebyie.com/inte...r-breather-adapter-plate-for-2-0t-tsi-engines


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## 92vrcorrado (Feb 12, 2007)

That's it! Strait forward install! Easy easy easy


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

Maybe a dumb question, but this requires a catch can, correct?


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## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

92vrcorrado said:


> This is caused by the crankcase ventilation system. Oil is a contributor and so is gas. Driving the car more aggressively will help but not solve the issue. Changing your oil at 5k instead of 10k will help too. Integrated engineering has a fix for this. It's like 200 bucks. My thing is that a manufacturer is going to have issues with a mass produced motor... All of them have them. It's up to you as a owner to take care of the car and fix anything that is a flaw or Broken. Direct injection is a wonderful thing. Beside the carbon issues I love my 2.0t but I have the IE fix and now issues. Had it from 53000 to 108k and clean as a whistle. Plus changing my oil at 5k using castrol syntec 5w40





dcbc said:


> Do you have a link to what you're using?
> 
> /edit. I assume it's this? How was the install?
> 
> http://www.performancebyie.com/inte...r-breather-adapter-plate-for-2-0t-tsi-engines


Can someone help me out and tell me what parts i'll need to use that with an oil catch can from integrated engineering? Thanks.


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## Utwarreng (Jun 29, 2014)

0-60Motorsports said:


> Can someone help me out and tell me what parts i'll need to use that with an oil catch can from integrated engineering? Thanks.


I just stumbled across this old thread where one was installed on a 2013 CC. Hopefully this helps. When you consider how expensive it is to do the cleanings, the cost of installing this stuff seems fairly cheap.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5909037-Oil-Catch-Can-installed-2013-VW-CC-Sport


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## 0-60Motorsports (Dec 27, 2009)

Utwarreng said:


> I just stumbled across this old thread where one was installed on a 2013 CC. Hopefully this helps. When you consider how expensive it is to do the cleanings, the cost of installing this stuff seems fairly cheap.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5909037-Oil-Catch-Can-installed-2013-VW-CC-Sport


Looks good. Thanks.


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## GreenWagen (Mar 4, 2008)

Ill add my experience. I started with hesitation when cold around 52k miles, but would go away when the car warmed up. A few weeks later the check engine light came on and showed misfire on cylinder two. I tried plugs and coil, but the cel came back a couple days later. I then took it into the dealer and they claimed carbon build up. My advisor stated that it was not covered but to call VWOA. 

I opened a ticket and they gave the whole spiel about how its a maintenance issue and its not covered, but they would see what they can do. Their solution was to use the cleaner. The cleaner seemed to help for about 800 miles, but the same issue came back.

VWOA offered to cover 75% and said my cost would be $88. I was hoping they would cover it all, but 88 bucks was reasonable just to get it fixed and mitigate any more downtime. I ended up paying $100 and change for manual removal. Car drives like new. Smooth as can be now. 

Before and after pictures 










http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/07/18/y****6am.jpg


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## Sevarg (Sep 28, 2009)

JustinCSVT said:


> It's a German DI engine. There's nothing you can really do to prevent it.
> 
> GM said the only thing to help stop carbon buildup is better management of oil by the PCV system and camshaft timing. And their DI engines rearely have any problems with it.
> 
> ...



I gave a call to New German Performance up the street from me in Lorton, VA to inquire about this. They said they use a machine to soda-blast and charge about $700 for the service.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

GreenWagen said:


> my cost would be $88


Only $88 for something that some/most people are paying $500-600 to have done.....I wouldn't complain :laugh:


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

Catch cans are not a clear-cut solution to this. There are lots of competing theories on what helps and what the cause is. Search....


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

Here is some information about DI and carbon build I found.

http://www.edmunds.com/autoobserver-archive/2011/06/direct-injection-fouls-some-early-adopters.html

After reading the article I believe that installing a catch can,good oil, and high rpm bursts in the only way to slow the carbon build-up on the valve stems. 

However ,valve cleaning is probably a necessary routine that will have to be performed in Direct Injected engine after so many miles depending on the engine manufacturer.

VW/Audi engines seem to be more prone to carbon build-up compared to the GM DI engines due to the PCV ventilation design VW uses, which could be remedied by installing a catch can to minimize the oil residue that helps form the carbon on the valves stems.

I will probably just have my valves cleaned every 100K miles on my 3.6 engine if I keep the car that long, because I tend to drive my 3.6 pretty hard and use 5w-40 Castrol Edge oil which I change every 5k miles to prevent using oil that is breaking down compared to if I wait until 10k miles to change it, because I believe that older oil loses it cleaning ability after so long when it start to break down after extended use and gas dilution. 

I will also start using Lucas gas treatment in my CC about twice a year to help with loosening carbon deposits that form on the valves. 

Time will tell if my method works to prevent excessive carbon build-up in my engine.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Carguy10 said:


> I will probably just have my valves cleaned every 100K miles on my 3.6 engine


~50k seems to be the magic number (on the 2.0T), but it's your car


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## burnout8488 (Jul 22, 2008)

Carguy10 said:


> I will also start using Lucas gas treatment in my CC about twice a year to help with loosening carbon deposits that form on the valves.
> 
> Time will tell if my method works to prevent excessive carbon build-up in my engine.


The fuel is injected into the combustion chamber and never sees the intake ports nor the valve stems.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

burnout8488 said:


> The fuel is injected into the combustion chamber and never sees the intake ports nor the valve stems.


Well, Mr. Wizard. Do tell how carbon deposits finds it way to coat the valves stems in Direct Injected(DI) engines. Why are DI engines more prone to carbon build-up than port injection engines if the unburnt fuel particles(soot) does not reach the valves during combustion?opcorn:


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## Spinozaman (Dec 23, 2012)

Carguy10 said:


> Well, Mr. Wizard. Do tell how carbon deposits finds it way to coat the valves stems in Direct Injected(DI) engines. Why are DI engines more prone to carbon build-up than port injection engines if the unburnt fuel particles(soot) does not reach the valves during combustion?opcorn:


It's oil vapor in the intake track. There is no fuel 'washing' off the valves in a DI engine.


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## burnout8488 (Jul 22, 2008)

Carguy10 said:


> Well, Mr. Wizard. Do tell how carbon deposits finds it way to coat the valves stems in Direct Injected(DI) engines. Why are DI engines more prone to carbon build-up than port injection engines if the unburnt fuel particles(soot) does not reach the valves during combustion?opcorn:





Spinozaman said:


> It's oil vapor in the intake track. There is no fuel 'washing' off the valves in a DI engine.


This ^^. Wasn't trying to sound cocky, apologize if it came off that way, but a lot of people blame fuel when it really isn't that big of a contributing factor.


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## Carguy10 (Nov 9, 2013)

burnout8488 said:


> This ^^. Wasn't trying to sound cocky, apologize if it came off that way, but a lot of people blame fuel when it really isn't that big of a contributing factor.


No problem man. It is just that so many forums members are quick to say that something will not work without trying it. 

Yes, I believe that a fuel treatment will have a minimal effect on existing carbon build-up, but at the same time believe that the cleaner may help prevent additional carbon formation and maybe loosen up some deposits over time.

If anyone take the time to read about the cause of the carbon on the DI engine valve stems, they would notice that most articles name unburnt fuel particles and oil as the the carbon deposit make up. So, yes fuel particles does find a way unto the valve stems.

I understand that the fuel will not wash over the valves like in port injection engines, but anything is better than nothing so I will at least try the fuel cleaner while my engine only has 24K miles on it.

I bought the car with only 17k mile on it and it still runs strong, therefore I will continue to rev the engine to red line to burn off/ shake off carbon due to heat and valve flutter,use the 5w-40 Castrol oil with an 5k oil change, and use the Lucas fuel injector cleaner about twice a year to keep the injectors clean and hopefully the injectors will spray some detergent in the combustion chamber and on the valves to keep the carbon build-up to a minimum until I have the carbon professionally removed at 100k miles.

Are these methods going to work, who knows until I try. What is the best preventive method to reduce carbon build in the DI engine if not these besides adding a oil catch can which I can not find for the 3.6?

Here what VW has to say about the problem and some solutions including full load driving that causing the engine to run pass 3K rpms to burn off and prevent carbon build on the intake valves. Which make sense since my engine do not rev pass 3k during my normal driving around town until I put in manual mode and hold the gears or floor the gas pedal at the stop light(brings unwanted attention to your self), which I assume goes for everyone else that owns a CC.

These engines need to be driven hard to last

http://www.google.com/patents/US6866031?dq=valve+coating+carbon+VW#PPA1,M1


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## Jscharff (Dec 14, 2014)

*DIY just soaking and scraping?*

I have been wading through the forums trying to find a DIY for doing this carbon cleaning by hand. I know i have to take the intake manifold off etc, but i am more looking for a list of appropriate tools and degreaser suggestions. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Jscharff said:


> I have been wading through the forums trying to find a DIY for doing this carbon cleaning by hand. I know i have to take the intake manifold off etc, but i am more looking for a list of appropriate tools and degreaser suggestions. Any help would be greatly appreciated!


Google works very well:
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62797


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