# Problems getting rid of Malfunction Indicator Lamp - three times at the dealer with no luck. :(



## gr8899 (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm having problems getting rid of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp on my 05 A4 2.0TFSI quattro with 6 spd tiptronic. I've had it at the dealers three times, and it's starting to cost me a fortune. The lamp comes back on 2-3 days later every time I get it reset.
Here's the readout from two different diagnosis systems:
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Some laptop system:
P0507 Idle Control System RPM higher Than Expected
P0441 Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge flow
P310B Low Pressure Fuel regulation: Fuel Pressure Outside Specification
P2187 System Too Lean at Idle, Bank 1
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Autoboss V30:
Fault code Description Status
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08583 --- Bank 1; System too Lean at Idle --------------------------------------------- 004 No Signal/Communication
08825 --- Leak in Air Intake System ----------------------------------------------------- 002 Lower Limit Exceeded
12555 --- Low Pressure Fuel regulation: Fuel Pressure Outside Specification -- 008 Implausible Signal
01287 --- Idle Control System RPM: Higher than Expected. ------------------------- 001 Upper Limit Exceeded 
I'm not sure if one should put too much into the status on the last one here.
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Anyone got any ideas?


_Modified by gr8899 at 3:24 AM 11-6-2009_


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## Uber-A3 (Feb 23, 2002)

*Re: Problems getting rid of Malfunction Indicator Lamp - three times at the dealer ... (gr8899)*

You should really do a codescan with a Vagcom, these look like generic OBD2 codes. You obviously have an intake leak somewhere, this explains the codes. Just resetting the code isn't going to fix the problem and it will reappear if not fixed.
I would start by checking all the clamps and fittings on the intake pipes and turbo. Could be something very simple as a loose clamp.


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## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

*Re: Problems getting rid of Malfunction Indicator Lamp - three times at the dealer ... (gr8899)*

What did the dealer perform 3 times, maybe ask them to check the TSB's that apply to your Pcodes.


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## gr8899 (Nov 6, 2009)

*Re: Problems getting rid of Malfunction Indicator Lamp - three times at the dealer ... (Uber-A3)*

Uber-A3, They've gone over the engine for leaks three times... measuring the lambda sensor while spraying some ethanol-smelling thingie that changes the values on the lambda - no changes. They've checked clamps and fittings with no luck.
I was at the dealer again today and we did some research, we're suspecting an internal air leak now... in the valve on top of the engine...
JC, What they did.. well, first time they did a read out and deleted error codes, second time they had the car for a day, first doing longlife service then trying to repair the MIL problem. They did leak tests, changed air filter (it was completely clogged up, they measured major improvement in air flow). Then the third time (last wednesday) they used a whole day and couldn't find the problem. Test driving, reading errors, going over the engine and fuel system, looking for TSBs.. there's just a few on this engine. The one I mentioned above is actually one of them.


_Modified by gr8899 at 2:39 PM 11-6-2009_


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## gr8899 (Nov 6, 2009)

I changed the pressure regulator valve with no luck.
The dealer wants my car for a week or so and have the Audi tech drive the car as his "private" car to and from work and other daily stuff, while logging data as he goes, and then involve the official norwegian VAG importer and VAG in Germany. They would probably be able to solve the problem together, and in a week, but it sounds like a very expensive solution to me. They weren't willing to do another "off record" readout either, to see if the fault codes had changed, so I took the car to a friend with Autoboss V30, he's read out codes before, but for some reason it didn't work this time. I was tired of asking around and got my hands on VAG-COM instead. I need to get the problem solved to get my beauty sleep again!
Sitting in the car as we speak. I'm (so far) actually very impressed with VAG-COM, especially compared to low cost solutions for BMW (Carsoft).
There's five faults this time, it's been four all the time before (at least as far as I know).
Here they are:
5 Faults Found:
008583 - Bank 1; System too Lean at Idle
P2187 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - MIL ON
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 11100100
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 5
Mileage: 171621 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 781 /min
Load: 22.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 76.0°C
Temperature: 7.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V
008825 - Leak in Air Intake System
P2279 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 171622 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 764 /min
Load: 14.1 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 79.0°C
Temperature: 9.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V
012555 - Low Pressure Fuel regulation: Fuel Pressure Outside Specification
P310B - 008 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101000
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 171626 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 5424 /min
Load: 100.0 %
Speed: 116.0 km/h
Temperature: 81.0°C
Temperature: 12.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.097 V
001287 - Idle Control System RPM: Higher than Expected.
P0507 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100001
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 3
Mileage: 171641 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 877 /min
Load: 14.1 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 82.0°C
Temperature: 29.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 980.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.970 V
001089 - EVAP Emission Control Sys: Incorrect Flow
P0441 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100010
Fault Priority: 0
Fault Frequency: 2
Mileage: 171680 km
Time Indication: 0
Freeze Frame:
RPM: 775 /min
Load: 22.0 %
Speed: 0.0 km/h
Temperature: 79.0°C
Temperature: 8.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 14.224 V
The first fault also notes "MIL ON" (I've never seen that from the other diagnosis systems?), but I'm guessing it could still be a consequence of another fault?
Any suggestions?


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## gr8899 (Nov 6, 2009)

I'd also like to mention:
Lately I've noticed a slight rpm drop at idle every now and then after driving.
I haven't had a four cyl. petrol car in quite some time (several years), and my other daily driver are a straight six which you can't feel in the car at idle. I know they can't be compared vibration wise, but I still believe the Audi is a bit more rough at idle than it should be. I can feel quite a lot of vibration in the car, but the rpm is stable, other than the noticeable drop which happens once in a while.


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## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: (gr8899)*

Alrighty........
P310B code........Low Fuel Pressure Sensor(G410) on HPFP. The one on the pass. side of the pump. Latest version ends in either "J" or "K". 
P2187, P2279, P0507 codes........There is a leak into the intake system between throttle cody and head or in PCV system. My guess is the Press. Reg. valve, but you said you replaced it?







Did you get the correct revision? There are 2 different styles.........
P0441 code.......various issues can cause this. Usually either from overfilling fuel tank and getting gas into canister and N80 valve. There are TSBs applying to this as well. Need to start with N80 valve and blowing out line from canister to EVAP port under hood.
The dealer should know all of these things...they were VERY common issues back in late 2006 and early 2007!!








-J. Hines


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## gr8899 (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks!
However.. I wouldn't think the engine had all of these faults at the same time? The chance of one of them triggering all these faults must be good?
How do I figure out which one triggers the others? Where do I start?
Also.. the first fault:
008583 - Bank 1; System too Lean at Idle
P2187 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - MIL ON
What does "No Signal/Communication" mean in this case? Is it the lambda/o2 sensor that gives this error?


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## vliou (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: (gr8899)*

Guess Occam's Razor doesn't apply here lol


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: (gr8899)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gr8899* »_Thanks!
However.. I wouldn't think the engine had all of these faults at the same time? The chance of one of them triggering all these faults must be good?
How do I figure out which one triggers the others? Where do I start?
Also.. the first fault:
008583 - Bank 1; System too Lean at Idle
P2187 - 004 - No Signal/Communication - MIL ON
What does "No Signal/Communication" mean in this case? Is it the lambda/o2 sensor that gives this error?
The no signal/communication means that the car isn't seeing a sensor. The car can monitor voltage supply wiring, but not signal lines. In the case of the O2 sensors, if it were completely disconnected you would get an "open or short to ground" fault for the O2 sensor's heating element. 
Without the O2 sensor's heating element throwing an "open/short to ground" code, there's nothing to say for absolutely certain that it is the O2, but a couple of the codes do point to the O2 sensor. The upstream O2 probably went bad but the heating element still works. 
I'd replace the O2 and check the tube that connects the airbox to the turbo, there may be a leak in there.



_Modified by blackvento36 at 3:59 PM 11-29-2009_


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