# 1991 Etienne Aigner Rescue - Graduation Gift



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey all. 

Derek here coming from the Rabbit world, and into the Cabby world. My girlfriend always wanted a cabriolet, I figured a college graduation would
be an awesome opportunity to get her one. A little background on myself, im a 28 year old architect, mechanic (self proclaimed) by night. I've got a good eye for design
and cant stand trashy upgrades on vehicles. 

I've got an 84 Rabbit 1.6D myself that i picked up last year from the original owner. Brought that one back to life and it is now my DD. 
Prior to that, and my current weekend warrior is a 97 Jeep with endless modifications and upgrades. Shes a beast, but also gets about 8 mpg. 

SO. i stumbled on this 91 on craigslist. turns out it is a *blue etienne aigner*, with an automatic ( BOOOO) and an 8V 1.8. Its completely stock. 
It has AC, cruise control, power windows yada yada yada. The car is in complete disaray. Its had a TON of owners, none that made any worthy contributions to the life of the car.
I will most likely be picking the car up the end of this week and be getting started on it immediately. 

Here's the low-down from what ive seen looking it over 3x. 

*Exterior:*

- The top is completely SHOT. 
-Badges missing off of trunk lid ( but do come with the car ).
-Entire car was plastidipped at one point. Current owner took all of that crap off however the front bumper and hood have been painted flat black. I will be repainting these. 
-Driver side has some fairly annoying to look at white scratches all over the rear of the fender and the door. 
-All of the waistline chrome trim is missing. 
-Currently sitting on the stock wheels. They are in terrible shape and will be stripped and polished by me. 
-2 of the 4 tires are shot. 
-Car needs to be overall buffed out and waxed. 

*Interior:*

-From the top leaking, the entire interior needs to be dryed out. 
-Emblems are missing off of the front seats. 
-Driver side outter bolster is crushed. Seats are in otherwise great condition.
-Carpet needs to be replaced. 
-Door panel fabric is loose from the door panel and hanging in some spots.
-Ash tray is missing and the glove box door has stickers and sticker goo all over it. 
-Headliner has rips and tears and needs to be replaced. 
-Various interior lights / gauge lights are out and need to be replaced. 
-Shift knob doesnt stay on the shift lever. 

*Mechanical:*

-Engine has roughly 240k on it, or atleast so says the cluster. 
-Engine is mostly dry, doesnt seem to be any big leaks anywhere. 
-Battery is shot.
-AC compressor hoses are disconnected.
-Water pump is VERY weak at an idle, judging by the stream returning to the overflow tank.
-Timing belt looks O.K., but will be replaced anyway. 
-Has exhaust leak somewhere around the manifold area.
-Car runs on 3 cyl. currently. I believe it simply needs a tuneup, but we will see. 
-Brakes seem really crappy with a really low pedal. 
-Headlights do not work. This is probably just a fuse.

My plan for this car is to keep it in a friends garage, and before the middle of May when my girlfriend graduates, get MOST of this stuff fixed, get the car
safe and reliable, and presentable. Slap a big bow on the hood, and drive it to her graduation on her graduation day. Suprise! I know, im out of my mind. :screwy:

Heres a couple photos' of the car. ALOT More to follow once i pick it up as i will be documenting this thing top - bottom and inside and out. 










Going to need a boat load of help with this thing, which parts are best to buy as far as plugs and wires and water pump and timing belt yada yada yada yada.


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## sehaare (Aug 4, 2003)

Start Here first

http://www.cabby-info.com/


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

sehaare said:


> Start Here first
> 
> http://www.cabby-info.com/


Then 
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/
Then in FAQ's above, page 3 section 75..... 

Those will cover a plethora of things for you.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Nice to finally see it. 



Derekxj said:


> -Currently sitting on the stock wheels. They are in terrible shape and will be stripped and polished by me.


Excellent choice. The _Le Castellet_ wheels look much better polished. :thumbup:



Derekxj said:


> -Shift knob doesnt stay on the shift lever.


The mini Allen screw may be missing, or if it's there, needs tightening up (3mm, IIRC).



Derekxj said:


> -Water pump is VERY weak at an idle, judging by the stream returning to the overflow tank.


Could also be a clogged radiator and/or weak t-stat. Do a complete flush.*


*This car has obviously been neglected and needs some TLC. If it were my car, I'd replace all fluids and filters; do a _complete_ tune-up; replace the radiator, t-stat, fan switch, and pump.



Derekxj said:


> before the middle of May when my girlfriend graduates, get MOST of this stuff fixed, get the car
> safe and reliable, and presentable. Slap a big bow on the hood, and drive it to her graduation on her graduation day. Suprise!


Better get to work!


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> ...
> Could also be a clogged radiator and/or weak t-stat. Do a complete flush.*
> 
> 
> ...


X2!!!

It's really easy. 
Coolant flush has a how too in the FAQ's.
Oil is a gimme.
Brakes has something in the Neo+ Bentley
Also throw on a new fuel filter.

Cabbys are fun, I hope you find enjoyment in it. Don't kill it too much in the salt


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

As I said page 3 of the faq,s thread 75. will answer your questions, and keep ya busy for a bit.....
See the big bolded one first, that is pretty major...

*Get Thee a Bentley*





*Convertible Top*

How I install convertible tops.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32262-Cabriolet-Convertible-Top-Installation

Installing your top padding kit.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32182-Cabriolet-Top-Pad-Installation

Installing your head liner.
http://www.toplessrabbit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=3013

"A" pillar gap repair.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32474-Cabriolet-quot-A-quot-pillar-repair-the-Gap.

How to clean your "A" pillar seal.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...let-How-to-clean-your-quot-A-quot-pillar-Seal

Improve and make your own side tension cables.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32180-Cabriolet-DIY-side-tension-cables

Where are some of my top leaks coming from.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32175-Where-is-my-convertible-top-leaking


*Electrical*

Definitive Radiator fan operation explained:
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/54346-Radiator-Fan-operation-explained-)
*
Improving your grounds 93 digi.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...Improving-your-Cluster-Connections-and-ground.*

Relaying your headlights.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32215-Relaying-your-Head-Lights

1990-1993 Testing your Water temp gauge
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32195-Testing-Digifant-Water-Gauge

*Engine/cooling:*

How I hate plastic parts:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-thanks-Tolusina&highlight=hate+plastic+parts

How I converted from r12 with r134a:
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/10057-How-I-converted-my-a-c-to-r134a

How to flush your radiator:
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/21399-How-to-flush-your-radiator

How to replace your Valve cover gasket 1990-1993
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...-Replace-your-Valve-Cover-Gasket.-90-93-Cabby.

How to change your water pump 1990-1993 Cabriolet
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/21830-How-I-change-out-my-Water-Pump

How to tighten a squealing a/c belt.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32219-Cabriolet-Tighten-Squeeling-a-c-Belt

Triming your Radiator Shroud easy on/off.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32213-Triming-your-Radiator-Shroud

*Body*

Saggy door fix.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32222-Saggy-Door-Fix

How to remove and regrease your door latches.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...How-to-remove-and-re-grease-your-Door-Latches

*Interior:*

Cold hand whistleing vents.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/9898-Cold-Hands\-Whistleing-Vents

Rear seat back pull replacement.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32227-Seat-Back-Release-Pull-Replacement.

How to remove a door card and adjust the window and stop.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...ow-to-remove-door-card-and-adjust-window-stop

How to repair broken trunk card board.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32225-Cabriolet-Repair-Trunk-Cardboard.

Where is my trunk leaking:
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32207-Cabriolet-mk1-Where-is-my-Trunk-Leaking

2-door/Cabriolet seat back release cable repair.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32205-2-Door\Cabriolet-Seat-Back-Cable-Replacement

Floppy vent fix.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32203-How-to-repair-floppy-vents

Replace your chewed roll bar foam
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...olet-How-to-Replace-your-Chewed-Roll-Bar-Foam

Seat rocks and is hard to slide.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...Cabriolet-Rabbit-Seat-rocks-and-hard-to-slide

How to safely remove your center and side vents.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32184-Cabriolet-Caddy-Center-Vent-Removal

How to replace your slow seat belt retractors.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32178-Replacing-Slow-Seat-Belts-in-Cabriolet

*Suspension:*

How to replace your rear struts:
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32174-How-to-replace-your-Rear-Struts

How to replace bushings with no press.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...Press-in-Control-Arm-Bushings-without-a-Press.

How to replace your front struts, and mounts.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32171-Replacing-Front-Struts-and-Mounts

How to keep the rear lower shock bolt from seizing.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...ow-to-Keep-Rear-Lower-Strut-Bolt-from-Seizing.

How to remove a power steering pump.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32173-How-to-remove-a-Mk1-Power-Steering-Pump


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Then
> http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/
> Then in FAQ's above, page 3 section 75.....
> 
> Those will cover a plethora of things for you.


Thanks alot for the link! This reflections page is pretty awesome never seen that before. 




kamzcab86 said:


> Nice to finally see it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think the stock wheels are going to look AWESOME polished. I dont think it will take to much work to bring them to life either!!! 

As for the coolant flow issue. There is also the blinking red light in the dash until the car warms up. once it warms up a little it goes away and shortly after that the gauge stops working, almost every time. This is probably related. How Could a weak T-stat cause a flow issue like this? i've never heard of this.... I will however surely complete the flush though!!! 

Thanks for the info on the shifter. That will really bother me!  



flying_oliver said:


> X2!!!
> 
> It's really easy.
> Coolant flush has a how too in the FAQ's.
> ...


Yeah these are all quick painless jobs for me that i could easily do all of in a couple hours. 

*A few additional questions........... 

1. What is the best oil to run in these engines? 

2. Any prefered coolant? Can it be your standard green antifreeze? 

3. I've found a couple top manufacturer sites that actually offer up a DVD showing a full removal / installation. Worth it? 
I found a gentleman here that has a dark blue top for sale for a couple bucks less than new. It is not canvas though. Is it cheaper to purchase the 3 part kit? 
Will the car be more valuable with the stayfast canvas? Im at a standstill on this at the moment. 

4. What are the best spark plugs to run on these things for best performance? *

Cant wait to get this thing all cozy and ready for a new life!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> As for the coolant flow issue. There is also the blinking red light in the dash until the car warms up. once it warms up a little it goes away and shortly after that the gauge stops working, almost every time. This is probably related. How Could a weak T-stat cause a flow issue like this? i've never heard of this.... I will however surely complete the flush though!!!


Possible gauge sender(s) issue.

Weak t-stat is one that doesn't fully open, thereby reducing the amount of coolant flow. Less common that stuck t-stats, but is does happen. Given the age of the car, and its neglect, I'd replace the t-stat regardless.



> 1. What is the best oil to run in these engines?


http://www.cabby-info.com/engine.htm#Filters



> 2. Any prefered coolant? Can it be your standard green antifreeze?


http://www.cabby-info.com/cooling.htm#Coolant



> 3. Will the car be more valuable with the stayfast canvas?


Yes. If this car is going to be 100% restored and perhaps sold some day, stick with canvas. If you're merely tidying it up enough to look decent and be road-worthy, vinyl is fine.

You'll want to inspect the headliner and, especially, the insulation; if either are showing any issues, replace them with the external layer.



> 4. What are the best spark plugs to run on these things for best performance?


http://www.cabby-info.com/ignition.htm#Plugs


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Possible gauge sender(s) issue.
> 
> Weak t-stat is one that doesn't fully open, thereby reducing the amount of coolant flow. Less common that stuck t-stats, but is does happen. Given the age of the car, and its neglect, I'd replace the t-stat regardless.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for the links!! I really want to buy the canvas....i just dont know if i have the canvas kind of money : / The car is going to need all 3 layers. 
The headliner has several big rips / holes visible from the interior , and the top is so ripped in the back in parts i can see the " insulation " , or what is left of it and it seems that its more or less completely missing in some spots. Perhaps best to buy one of those package deals? i dont know, i havent decided yet.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks so much for the links!! I really want to buy the canvas....i just dont know if i have the canvas kind of money : / The car is going to need all 3 layers.
> The headliner has several big rips / holes visible from the interior , and the top is so ripped in the back in parts i can see the " insulation " , or what is left of it and it seems that its more or less completely missing in some spots. Perhaps best to buy one of those package deals? i dont know, i havent decided yet.


The FAQ.s have you covered as far as installing them goes.... HINT in Headliners it Measure the distance between the seams in the middle, and hang the corners first.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The FAQ.s have you covered as far as installing them goes.... HINT in Headliners it Measure the distance between the seams in the middle, and hang the corners first.


Okay cool i will try and remember that!!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey everyone so been thinking that id REALLY absolutely love to lower this car, a little bit......and obviously get some new tires for it. 
I dont really want to spend even 400 bucks on racelands......are there any halfway decent ( and cheap ) springs i could buy for a static drop ? 

What size tires would you recommend for the Castelles? Little bit lower profile and maybe even a little bit of a stretch if possible?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

My advice don't do it. Some alignment shops charge extra for a lowered car, as some shops won't do it at all. Front end geometry changes, ride stiffens, CV axles may rub, scrape, on frame, and axles are not at the optimum angle for longevity.

Getting a smaller profile wheel only adds to the distance between the wheel arch and the tire exacerbating the gap appearance IMHO.

Lowering a car correctly is not Cheap, you have to have good parts. Cheap only costs 3 times as much in the log run.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> My advice don't do it. Some alignment shops charge extra for a lowered car, as some shops won't do it at all. Front end geometry changes, ride stiffens, CV axles may rub, scrape, on frame, and axles are not at the optimum angle for longevity.
> 
> Getting a smaller profile wheel only adds to the distance between the wheel arch and the tire exacerbating the gap appearance IMHO.
> 
> Lowering a car correctly is not Cheap, you have to have good parts. Cheap only costs 3 times as much in the log run.


I dont want to lower it to make it a race car. I want to lower it because i mainly prefer the look of a lowered car better. it looks less like a rollerskate. handles a little bit better and 
is a more enjoyable ride IMHO. 

The reason i want a little bit of a lower profile tire just a little, is to complement the looks of the above mentioned drop. Sure doing it " properly " would cost WELL over a thousand bucks.....however i know for a fact that for about 400 bucks you can set a car up to look and perform halfway decent. Especially for a car that will not be driven on a daily basis....just on your occasional really nice days and in the summer.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I dont want to lower it to make it a race car. I want to lower it because i mainly prefer the look of a lowered car better. it looks less like a rollerskate. handles a little bit better and
> is a more enjoyable ride IMHO.
> 
> The reason i want a little bit of a lower profile tire just a little, is to complement the looks of the above mentioned drop. Sure doing it " properly " would cost WELL over a thousand bucks.....however i know for a fact that for about 400 bucks you can set a car up to look and perform halfway decent. Especially for a car that will not be driven on a daily basis....just on your occasional really nice days and in the summer.


You get out of it what you put in to it.
A good set of anti-sway bars, K, X, or strut will doo more for your handling than lowering your car will.
As you live in NY, where it can snow significantly Lowering it can make driving in snow covered streets a exercise in snow plowing.
As you lower it, you gain Curb Appeal, that is you can get your Oil Pan "holed" Oil intake bent if you run over a Curb, or Parking lot stop, or bottoming out going from the street to a driveway.
So you also have to think about armor plating your Pan, or make a skid plate. Bending your pan in the wrong place can push the tin to where the oil pump intake gets partially plugged, broken
so you loose oil pressure and oil starve your engine spinning or burning out rod, crank, intermediate shaft and cam bearings. Holing it at 3:30 in the morning you will see about 4 quarts of motor oil infront of the car. 


Now I am not a doomsayer, and to each his own, but you have to realize all the negative things that can happen when lowering your car, as well as trying to get a floor jack under it.
Just this past Christmas Morning, my Daughter called, the cabbies rear tire was flat.... I took my floor jack over and actually had to lift the car to get the jack under it. Now we had a nice dry Christmas, and a cement drive way... Imagine that on a pot holed street in the middle of a cold rainey night.


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## Mrpapageorgio (Mar 16, 2014)

briano1234 said:


> Now I am not a doomsayer, and to each his own, but you have to realize all the negative things that can happen when lowering your car




YES You are!!! There are 1000's of lowered Rabbit's/Golf's on the roads all over the world ... That get driven every day without incident.... Thats hundreds of 1000 miles every day


Lower Your car smart, be aware of rd conditions and You will be fine


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Mrpapageorgio said:


> YES You are!!! There are 1000's of lowered Rabbit's/Golf's on the roads all over the world ... That get driven every day without incident.... Thats hundreds of 1000 miles every day
> 
> 
> Lower Your car smart, be aware of rd conditions and You will be fine


Sire, why do you think I am being a doom sayer? Unlike some on the forum I believe in letting a person have all the information that I can think of. If he wants to lower it then fine. He needs to be aware of all that goes wrong. Since this isn't a Sports Car or a Sporty Car, does it matter? no not at all.
Now can you remember folks how have lowered their car posting the damage that curbing, hitting a pot hole or what not did? I was just making a new owner of a Semi-rare Cabriolet what he might encounter, if he hadn't thought it through. 

If it is done correctly it can lower the wheel gap and still look nice (See Kammy's). 
If it isn't done correctly then all kinds of crap can happen. Lowering a car and expecting better handling with out adding strut bars is an oxymoron statement. Like Jumbo Shrimp, Military Intelligence, and your remarks about what constitutes a "Sports, to Sporty" car. 

Sorry that I have poked you in the eye.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Alright alright. no need to battle! 

I come from , and still am very much a part of jeep world. Like lifting a vehicle, i have every bit of knowledge that i need to do things " right ". Theres a difference between
doing something incorrectly, and doing something on a budget. 

Just like installing a lift on a truck using 8" worth of blocks between the leaf springs and the spring perch.........or installing a 6 inch body lift......when it comes to lowering 
a car, no i am not going to cut the stock springs or torch them to lower the car. 

Will i install a cheap pair of coilovers to get the car looking a little bit better and give it a little bit more handling ability.......i absolutely will. 
Will the wheels be curbed, absolutely not. Will i think it is a rally car just because i spent 300 bucks on a cheapo coilovers? absolutely not. 

I would LOVE to get a set of coilovers or lowering springs on the car prior to gifting it to the girlfriend, and if that is in the budget i can be sure that strut bars and a lower
K bar will not be in the budget. Will they EVENTUALLY be installed to further the cars performance? Absolutely. For now, this is an open discussion in which im simply 
looking for some knowledge. I know lowering springs can be a bit cheaper than coilovers ....SO. if i went that route. Which are good? which are to stay away from? 

Which tires would be a good match for a small drop with the 14" wheels? This is all im asking. Without knowing which knowledge i posses and which i do not, i do however appreciate
your words of advice on what damage can come about from doing things the " wrong way " .


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> I know lowering springs can be a bit cheaper than coilovers ....SO. if i went that route. Which are good?


I've got a set of H&R Sport Springs, matched with Bilstein Sport shocks (popular choice in the VW world)... in a box. I removed them from my car (not even close to 5,000 miles on them... car isn't driven much)*. They dropped the car about 1.5". You're welcome to the set for a small fee + shipping.


*Why? Car handled fantastic :thumbup: , but it couldn't handle these utterly crappy Arizona roadways. If our roads were better here, I'd have kept the sport suspension on it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> I've got a set of H&R Sport Springs, matched with Bilstein Sport shocks (popular choice in the VW world)... in a box. I removed them from my car (not even close to 5,000 miles on them... car isn't driven much)*. They dropped the car about 1.5". You're welcome to the set for a small fee + shipping.
> 
> 
> *Why? Car handled fantastic :thumbup: , but it couldn't handle these utterly crappy Arizona roadways. If our roads were better here, I'd have kept the sport suspension on it.


Any photo's of the said setup on the car ?


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## tinker6468 (Feb 2, 2006)

I bought the Racelands (or equivalent brand, can't remember now) put them on in the garage and couldn't wait to sell them. For me, way too low. I plan to purchase for my current project, 1993, a set of lowering springs and shocks, lowering the car about 1-1.5 inches and use 15 inch wheels. Should be about right for my driving habits without a harsh ride. 

When it comes to suspension, you surely get what you pay for. I know Autotech has sales now and again, Christmas for sure, they have a nice sport club kit and at 30% off not a bad deal.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

tinker6468 said:


> I bought the Racelands (or equivalent brand, can't remember now) put them on in the garage and couldn't wait to sell them. For me, way too low. I plan to purchase for my current project, 1993, a set of lowering springs and shocks, lowering the car about 1-1.5 inches and use 15 inch wheels. Should be about right for my driving habits without a harsh ride.
> 
> When it comes to suspension, you surely get what you pay for. I know Autotech has sales now and again, Christmas for sure, they have a nice sport club kit and at 30% off not a bad deal.


Thanks for the update. I dont mind a harsh ride myself....as ive been driving my 84 diesel rabbit for a year now with the original mcphearson's from 84 AND original strut mounts. Rattling and smashing my lower spine. My jeep's ride is enough to rattle teeth loose, especially here on these garbage NY roads that they can never seem to keep repaired for longer than a month. Anyhow.....I would be fine with lowering springs and shocks on this cabby, I will be running the stock 14" wheels once i strip and polish them up :thumbup::beer: 

btw, was actually just reading through YOUR build thread. Very nice progress so far! Car should be sweet once your done! 
Any plans to replace the top?


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## tinker6468 (Feb 2, 2006)

I did the top on project mellow yellow myself and it turned out great. I went with canvas in black. Didn't like the look of vinyl and I didn't want white. For my current project I will do canvas again but thiking blue this time thinking then white/blue combo will look good and mix it up

I purchased the black top off ebay I think I have the seller listed in the mellow yellow thread. Price was fair compared to others. I didn't need new horse hair or the inside piece either.

As for suspension en en on then highest setting for lowest drop I thought it looked to low to me. I didn't want a ride where I would have to go side ways over speed bumps or a crawl on ramped exits


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

tinker6468 said:


> I did the top on project mellow yellow myself and it turned out great. I went with canvas in black. Didn't like the look of vinyl and I didn't want white. For my current project I will do canvas again but thiking blue this time thinking then white/blue combo will look good and mix it up
> 
> I purchased the black top off ebay I think I have the seller listed in the mellow yellow thread. Price was fair compared to others. I didn't need new horse hair or the inside piece either.
> 
> As for suspension en en on then highest setting for lowest drop I thought it looked to low to me. I didn't want a ride where I would have to go side ways over speed bumps or a crawl on ramped exits


Very interesting. So was that your first ever convertible top install? how long did it take you? 
Im thinking about the stayfast canvas only because topsonline has it REALLY cheap in the dark blue which was what was stock on my car. And when i say really cheap im talking 
289 for the EZ-ON brand which is allegidly stayfast Haartz cloth. Compared to other sites which are almost 500 for that same top. I dont understand why its so much cheaper,
maybe someone else can chime in but it is. I have an opportunity to get a vinyl top for 160 shipped to me ( just the top ), and it was from MT allegidly but i dont know if i really want the vinyl. Im a little tossed up on the subject right now ....ive been consuming myself with information on it and its gotten me really confused between all the options and yada yada yada.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Just for reference....burgundy vinyl I got from topsonline. Many didn't have the color...theirs was good price. 
This car is Etienne #2. You can see the green 92 and Etienne #1 in the background. 

















I've done tops on 4 cabbies.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Just for reference....burgundy vinyl I got from topsonline. Many didn't have the color...theirs was good price.
> This car is Etienne #2. You can see the green 92 and Etienne #1 in the background.
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the photo and info!! How do you like the quality of the vinyl? It is significantly cheaper.....
I know i need all three layers, which is very unfortunitate for me finacially! lol. I was hoping that some site would offer
a nice cheap package deal but that seems to be not so realistic. 

How did you find doing the job yourself? that photo the top doesnt appear to be so flat, looks like it has alot of hills and valleys and so forth
that i havent really seen before. Is this because of installation issues?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> How did you find doing the job yourself? that photo the top doesnt appear to be so flat, looks like it has alot of hills and valleys and so forth
> that i havent really seen before. Is this because of installation issues?


They can with the best of intentions...
Here is a car with a top that I replaced.




Yes that is a 1/2 inch gap at the front seal being latched into place.

Here is all 3 layers replaced, only thing left was to cut the window out.




But I have done probably more than most on the forum....
This was Foam padding kit from Topsonline.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Wow nicely done. I was curious about the foam padding kit vs. the horsehair. foam is much cheaper, i'll probably be going with that. Now if i could only find a really inexpensive headliner!


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The two half moons over the rear window area was because I didn't staple down the foam under padding. When the top was put down, the foam doubled over resulting in the lumps. After this photo, I unfolded the padding and stapled it. 

Between Brian's how to and a pdf I found on a uk website, there is plenty info how to do this. Its scary but just not that hard. 
Everything else...well I'm not a professional top installer but it's good enough for me.

The top material was well made and pretty substantial. Have not regretted buying it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> The two half moons over the rear window area was because I didn't staple down the foam under padding. When the top was put down, the foam doubled over resulting in the lumps. After this photo, I unfolded the padding and stapled it.
> 
> Between Brian's how to and a pdf I found on a uk website, there is plenty info how to do this. Its scary but just not that hard.
> Everything else...well I'm not a professional top installer but it's good enough for me.
> ...


Cool thanks for the info! so what exactly does the foam padding get stapled to?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Theres a cross bar right where the window area turns into the top area. It creates the angle between the two. It has a dense cloth padding strip built into it. The staples go thru the foam into the padding strip. You can see it in the second photo as a while line above the rear window frame. 

The top stripped. 










Factory headliner before removal.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

AHH i understand now. Thanks for the photo's! Looks complicated under that vinyl! lol.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Naw, A kid with an erector set coulda built as good of a frame as well.

Here are the cliff notes.

Remove Outer cover.
Remove Pad.
Remove Headliner.
Replace Headliner
Replace Pad
Replace Outer cover
Adjust frame, seals, and doors.

The Red Neck Version.
Get about 45 Rolls of Duct Tape, your Choice of colors, Cammo works good and a case of Dixie.
Now don't be getting any of that Lite Beer, this is after all a MAN's JOB no skimping calories here.

Martha Stewart Version.
You will need about 45 Rolls of Duct Tape Choose the Color where your Car is going to be seen, I prefer soft Pastels, and two Magnums of Chardonnay.
Please remember that you can use your Rotary Cutter and the Printed Duct Tape to Accent and Highlight your Tops Best Qualities.

Typical Irishman.
Tink about it, have a Guinness or 4, tink some more have another Guinness or three then get your roll of duct tape, drive yourself to the local pub and tape yer arse to the feckin stool me boyo, drink Guinness till you don't care aboot it no more.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Naw, A kid with an erector set coulda built as good of a frame as well.
> 
> Here are the cliff notes.
> 
> ...


Im German / Italian. How would i go about it? 

......awesome post by the way LMAO. One of the best i've seen yet. :beer::beer::beer:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Im German / Italian. How would i go about it?
> 
> ......awesome post by the way LMAO. One of the best i've seen yet. :beer::beer::beer:


I don't make fun of the Germans, nor of the Eyetalians, as my Relative would jump outta the grave and Smite me. My Aunt would probably be able to order a hit.
I watched my Uncle make an Eyetallian Joke once.. I don't know if he ever saw what hit him, she was small wiry and Fast, and yes she wore Combat Boots, She was a Nurse at a M*A*S*H* in Sicily and Anzio.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So picking up the car this weekend, weather depending obviously. Want to order a bunch of stuff now and get it coming my way so I can FULLY tune this car up. 
It was running with a slight miss when i heard it run. Either way,It will now be in my posession and i will want to do things and take care of things the way i do with all of my vehicles. Here's what i got on the shopping list so far. This is a high mileage engine folks........anything else you all recommend changing right away? ( timing belt kit, water pump, and V belt will be changed all at once as a seperate order ).


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Once you get the car, crawl under it(weather permitting) and inspect the shift linkage. 
Often times the bushings have fallen apart making it difficult to get into 1st and 3rd gears.

ONLY if its a manual. Didn't you say it was an automatic?

check the big intake air tube to make sure it has no cracks.
Also check the rubber grommet that goes into the valve cover, that directs air from the valve cover into the big tube. 
Any air leaks makes this engine run very bad. 
Same for the air adjustment screw in the back side of the throttle body.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Once you get the car, crawl under it(weather permitting) and inspect the shift linkage.
> Often times the bushings have fallen apart making it difficult to get into 1st and 3rd gears.
> 
> ONLY if its a manual. Didn't you say it was an automatic?
> ...


Cool thanks man. Its an auto  Hopefully not for long. yeah yeah i know..........Auto is even MORE rare. 

Anyhow. So no shift linkage to worry about. The rubber grommet that goes into the valve cover, is it a PCV valve? I'll keep an eye out for air leaks. i know the air box itself isnt bolted down and is kinda just hanging out there.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The grommet allows crankcase fumes to recycle into the intake. Theres no valve in it..just open hole.
Often times the grommet cracks due to age and lets air in causing a major vacuum leak. 
As long as the rubber is intact, you're good to go.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> The grommet allows crankcase fumes to recycle into the intake. Theres no valve in it..just open hole.
> Often times the grommet cracks due to age and lets air in causing a major vacuum leak.
> As long as the rubber is intact, you're good to go.


Okay cool i will definitely look for this! Thanks alot for the info!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

CajunSpike said:


> The grommet allows crankcase fumes to recycle into the intake. Theres no valve in it..just open hole.
> Often times the grommet cracks due to age and lets air in causing a major vacuum leak.
> As long as the rubber is intact, you're good to go.





Derekxj said:


> Okay cool i will definitely look for this! Thanks alot for the info!


Napa sells those for about 3 dollars.


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## sehaare (Aug 4, 2003)

well you listed an oil filter so I'm sure you going to change the oil. I changed the coolant as well when I got my last one. Eventually I'd pull the injectors and replace the seals. Hoses and belts (keep the old ones in the trunk as a spare if a new one ever breaks in the middle of no where)including the heater hose which can be a pita but I was able to do it. 

Timing belt is easier to do before it breaks and your timing is all screwed up.

I'd also flush the brake lines. I have a 98 ford which was when anti-lock brakes were first coming out and I mistakenly thought that I couldn't flush them myself (lot of mis-information back then). When my daughter started driving it last year I had ford do it finally for the first time and one of the brake lines was so rotted out that it burst. If you spend the bucks for a one of the pump up pressure bleeders it is pretty easy. Unless you twist of a bleeder screw then it's only about $20 for a wheel cylinder, but the front calipers might be a little pricey.


Mine also needed motor mounts but that is probably down on the list.
Steve


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

sehaare said:


> Mine also needed motor mounts but that is probably down on the list.
> Steve


Well even though they are a PITA to install, ok the one is. I detect the aroma of a hen house on a hot July afternoon.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

alright folks. Big update here!! This thread, starting tomorrow once i get a WHOLE lot of before pictures taken this evening, is about to get extremely picture heavy. 

Picked up the Cabby yesterday!! Called in some favors, thanks to some good friends got it into its resting place in a friends garage where it will hide, and be revived, until the big
reveal to the girlfriend on her graduation day. 

Also placed another order to rock auto for some belts. Have a single round grill coming. 

Say Hello to Miss Aigner. :wave: :wave: 












And here is the order that I placed for a slew of gates belts.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So its time to document right here and now everything in an updated list that I will be doing to the car, and the major things that i can tell it needs. 
For the most part from my knowledge of being around cars my whole life and being halfway intelligent ( i think ), This is what i can tell. 

Obviously, this list will more than likely grow. 

*Engine/Mechanical: *

1. Has a rough idle. Alot of hesitation when i drove it up and down the block. fuel pumps are working. I think this may have to do with just needing
a tuneup very badly. Cap rotor plugs wires filters and oil change, and fuel filter...... i HOPE will straighten this out. 

2. There are several of the monitoring wires disconnected or wired poorly such as the oil pressure sender ontop of the filter housing. No connection 
there. Need to locate the wires. 

3. I noticed a VERY weak stream of coolant coming into the washer bottle. Im going to rack this up to a bad water pump. It will be replaced along 
with the timing belt. 

4. All belts and hoses must be replaced. 

5. New Battery will be installed, New terminals and grounds will be installed as well. 

6. Random things like the airbox are not bolted or secured down and are just floating. AC lines are disconnected from the compressor and also
just hanging. I will re-attach, with plans to repair whatever is wrong with the AC system at a later date. 

7. Transmission shifts fine. Not sure yet if i should NOT change the fluid and service it, or if i should....some input needed here. 

8. The brakes are terrible, Low pedal, and there is NO ebrake. Pull the handle it fly's up. Cables probably snapped? 

9. Seems that there is no power steering. Res. is full. Need to see if the pump has quit on me. 

*Interior: ( needs alot of love ). *

1. All Door panel fabric is starting to peel up from moisture. Need to re-do / re-secure this stuff. 

2. Drivers side outside bolster is crushed. I doubt i'll have the money's in the budget to get this done by the " deadline " , but we'll see. 

3. Ashtray and the whole assembly has already been replaced and fixed. 

4. Carpet is shot, and pulled out of the trim pieces on the floor so its popping up in the footwells exposing steel underneath. May either replace
the entire carpet if i can afford to, or remove this one, powerwash it and make it work. 

5. My friend who is holding the car for me where we are doing the work is a 12V wiz kid who does immaculate wiring. Very sophisticated stuff. 
He's told me that as a price of storing the car there, I dont have a say in the audio. :thumbup: He goes above and beyond everytime and i know will
do a job that is nothing short of impressive. Shaves one thing off the list!!! 

6. Glove box door top vinyl cover portion is gone. Need a replacement glovebox door. anybody have one? 

7. Interior gauges, most of the lighting is not working or working very poorly. Will be buying replacement lamps once i get everything torn down 
and figure out which ones i need all around. 

8. Seat frames seem to be all Tweaked and effed up. Seat release is ALWAYS active. can just flop seat back forward an back without touching release.
the front seats rock a little bit, will have to figure this out once i get them out of the car. 

9. The headliner is shot, to be replaced with the top. 

10. Need to figure out what size set screw goes into the shift knob, so that i can re-install that as the set screw is missing! 

*Exterior (Needs the most love) *

1. Body has a ton of scuffs, scratches, and chips. Doubt i'll be able to do anything about this beyond giving it a good compound and wax. 

2. Waistline trim is missing....working on getting a chrome set to put on. 

3. Wheels are in bad shape. will be stripped and high polished, along with new rubber. 

4. Hood is flat black, along with the front and rear bumpers. Calling in a favor to have atleast the hood resprayed, and maybe the front bumper.

5. Rear Pass. side tailight is cracked. 

6. Dr. side door handle pulls out of door when you pull on it, so you have to push and squeeze the handle at the same time to open door. 

7. Top is SHOT. nothing to be said about it other than that its got to go in the garbage! 

8. Rear tailgate has a bit of a ding. i should be able to pop it out with any luck at all. 

9. Windshield is cracked. Lower frame looks like its hurting. Im scared to having windshield replaced, as i know i dont have the time ( or the even close 
to the money, to repairing the rust or minimal rot in the lower winshield frame ). Its been gooked with silicone and may stay that way for quite some 
time. Will have to call in another favor to get it passed inspection with the cracked windshield. 



Pfew. My fingers hurt, and now my brain hurts!! Good god what have I gotten myself into? I hope after all of this, and with the photo's of months of documentation of me braking my back and wallet, along with this thread she'll appreciate the gift! :thumbup: 
Tonight I will be starting to tear down the interior in prep for wiring and that schtuff, installing a new battery, and drinking alot of beer. :beer:


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

I'll take a stab at some of the issues you listed. 
Looks nice btw. Also, that early westy rabbit is way too clean to daily in NY!! 



Derekxj said:


> So its time to document right here and now everything in an updated list that I will be doing to the car, and the major things that i can tell it needs.
> For the most part from my knowledge of being around cars my whole life and being halfway intelligent ( i think ), This is what i can tell.
> 
> Obviously, this list will more than likely grow.
> ...



I'd totally help you tear it down and fix it if I were in NY. Did that to my brothers blue EA over the summer and it was tons of fun.



























For the interior lights, purchase some LED's from superbrightleds.com. 
Here is how I converted mine to LED.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...all-into-gauges-and-switches-How-to-(kind-of)

I went with blue for my brothers car. They look pretty nice.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> I'll take a stab at some of the issues you listed.
> Looks nice btw. Also, that early westy rabbit is way too clean to daily in NY!!
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks alot for all of your info on the items that i've got to look into. First is deff the tune up and all that jazz. Then i'll see how she runs after that. 

As for the coolant temp sensor you said replace it with a " new blue one " . is this the one ontop of the coolant res. right? Ive read about people having issues with the aftermarket versions of 
these and that only the one from VW is good to get. if theres a specific one i need to buy please do let me know! 

For the interior lights, unless there are plug and play's for the switches as well as the cluster i probably wont go that route. Id love to see a picture of the cluster and switches lit up in blue!!!! I was actually thinking this
as i switched everything in my jeep over to red switch lights included and it looks awesome. 

Thanks for posting up the photo's of that BEAUTIFUL EA !!!!!!! , and completely putting mine to shame lol. After starting to take some things apart on the car last night i realized how good of shape it ISNT in and how neglected the special interior really was and unfortunately......these interior's are one-off and not so repairable when it comes to this fabric it seems. Kind of depressed me a bit last night actually. Yes, i take this stuff to heart. The pattern is literally worn off the seats in some spots, water was allowed to get into the interior ruining the panels. the car was molested with stickers. The paint was let go to $hit by someone. Its really quite unfortunate. I know i could have gotten a much better deal on a MUCH nicer car for like another.......500 bucks but i wanted this EA because im all about having things that most people DONT have. I like the rare birds you know? As for that Westy, it belongs to the girl i bought the car from....its in REALLY nice shape and it isnt her daily. Lipstick red interior as well. She takes care of her vehicles which is why im upset that she lost interest in the cabby and never really dug into it or it may have been saved a bit more than it can be now. 

Okay well.......This post is about to get extremely picture heavy.....i documented the HECK out of the car last night. All in Favor?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

One more pic for inspiration.. Good luck.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> One more pic for inspiration.. Good luck.


Ah cmon now im just jealous!!!! lol! Beautiful car Cajun! Both of them for that matter are in excellent shape so it seems..........one day i hope. Its just burning me a bit that even if i decide one day to COMPLETELY restore it body, a new heart. everything.......the seats simply " are what they are ".


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Alright ladies and Gents. Here she is in (not) so much glory! lol, in the resting place in a friends garage while i get it all road ready and hopefully looking pretty again. Here you can see the remnence of the crappy plasti-dip on the existing paint. the hood is going out for paint ( calling in a favor).


I want to have the front bumper sprayed with the hood. but i think its busted.it looks to be anyhow. 




Dent and scratches i need to work on popping out and buffing the scratches out. never done anything like this but shouldnt be bad. 


Big dent in the trunk lid. Should be able to pop this one out. no creases.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :facepalm: 








Missing Emblems.




Need to find a matching SEM paint to recoat these armrests. 


Rear Dr. Side panel in rough shape.






Busted door handle. This should be cake to replace. I really want the chrome ones, I think they would be a nice touch with the polished wheels.


Carpet pulling up. No clue how this would be Re-secured. 


Drivers door panel. Has been removed and panel is warped a bit. I can rebuild the panel, but im not comfortable enough in my abilities
to re-attach an old skin to a new panel. Especially this fabric....




Bolster is wasted. 


For allegidly 235 on the clock....its fairly clean. 






Then i revealed an abortion behind the dash. Two wires, forget which ones ( one of each out of each connctor going to back of cluster) were broken, well almost looked like they had been cut. I have no clue why....


Cmon guys. Help me tear this car to pieces! Beat it up verbally, physically....i dont care. It's going to help me get it done!


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

I used 3m spray headliner adhesive to get the cloth to stick to the door panels.
Pull the panel off.
lift up the cloth.
spray several shots along the edge of material and edge of door card.
let dry for a minute
press material down..maybe even using clothes pins.
let dry..
move on to next section.


I only sprayed the edges..not the center of the fabric.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> I used 3m spray headliner adhesive to get the cloth to stick to the door panels.
> Pull the panel off.
> lift up the cloth.
> spray several shots along the edge
> ...


I was thinking about this but in the past ive had problems with that stuff coming through the fabric at times and even changing the color of the fabric a bit. It was originally stapled to the backing board. I wonder what an upholstery shop would charge to re-do a couple panels with the existing fabric if i brought them the pieces already cut out....... The panels are a little bit warped toward the bottom.


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## Twebber10 (Feb 16, 2013)

Keep it going! It will be sweet in the end! I bought an 89 recently and did cap and rotor wires and plugs. And the thing runs amazing!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks for the vote of confidence man! I really do hope it does turn out sweet. I only have until may to get this thing as nice as possible and at LEAST 
110% roadworthy, so i need to make sure im laying down the coin where it counts as im broke myself. Im putting my jeep, and my own Rabbit and my boat project on hold until this cars ready just so i can make it all happen. 

Does anybody know where i can acquire some sort of pin out for the two connectors that plug into the back of the cluster? 
I havent yet acquired a bentley for this car and want to find out why the two wires that are cut, are cut. or if their broken make sure
i know what they do before i reconnect.


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## Mrpapageorgio (Mar 16, 2014)

Cluster and gauges lit up with blue LED's


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Here are the clips you need to secure your carpet.









Pull up the trim piece. It is held down by some metal clips. Then on the same metal pinch weld where those clips secured the trim piece, you will also see additional clips looking just like the ones in the picture. The carpet hooks into them and then sit underneath the trim piece.
Up towards the front of the car closest to the door (once you start going up towards kneebar/dash) the carpet always pulls out...You can tack it down with some glue but I wouldn't use too much.

The coolant temp sensor is the blue one in the coming out of the block on the front. That flange also has a black sensor. The black one powers your gauge indicator.

Go to cabby-info.com and read through every page. Read through the links in the left hand side of the page (margin). It contains tutorials in PDF form, links to threads, and other good info. 

Here's a good one: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/DashRemoval.pdf

:beer:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey thanks for the pictures. it looks pretty good. how even is the lighting on the instrument panel? Do you think it looks almost like the OEM lighting looks except blue? 

I know the direction of these LED's make a big difference, they also sell the ones with multi-directional LED's.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> Here are the clips you need to secure your carpet.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks alot man! Have you had any other successful way's of keeping the carpet down? Im going to be removing the entire carpet to degrease and power wash it yada yada yada and am really not sure how its going to dry, meaning if its going to want to pop up even MORE in certain area's after i do that....I've never done this with a carpet before. 

Thanks for the info! So I'll order a coolant temp sensor than. Any particular brands i should stay away from, or rather that i should be ordering with that sensor?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey again all. Was working on the cabby again last night.....Slapped on the new dist. cap and rotor. By tonight the new BP6ET plugs, and new wires should be coming in as well. 
I'll be changing the oil, installing all of that stuff. hopefully installing a new fuel filter ( if i can find where the old one is! ) ....new battery. Oh.....and crying over the under-hood wiring thanks to whatever Butcher had his fat fingers into this car before me. Wires are chewed up, cut, insulation so brittle wires break when i touched them. nothing is taped, connections are crimped and exposed ( and rotting )...Oh and the reason the battery was dead was probably because the exciter circuit wire that goes back to the alternator was completely broken out of its connector. :banghead: 

Being as im a bit special.....I cant for the life of me figure out how to read the bently wiring schematics. all i want to know is why the two wires behind my cluster were cut. Or look like they were cut anyway. one is red. one is red on the smaller connector. the other is red / black off the larger connector. I dont want to reconnect without knowing what i am fixing. 

I crawled under the car ( which was probably a mistake) , and realized that the PS pump pulley was gone, and no longer functional. This is insane. why have PS on a car and not be able to use it?!!! Who knows. Found the horn issue was an improper ground and improper location. 

There are connectors ALL OVER under the hood, unconnected and i cant figure out where many of them belong. Ladies and Gentleman......This thing is a giant abortion as far as wiring goes. Tonight i will be going there with my micro-torch, solder. dielectric grease and heat shrink.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Carpet wise, it should be fine. Just be careful power washing it; easy does it. 

Wiring diagram: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ElectricalSystem.pdf Page 15 explains it.. They take some time. One year ago I used to not be able to read them worth a dang and now I'm descent 

So you want to know what wires are cut to the instrument cluster. Flip open (open the pdf..) to the wiring diagram page that says "Cabriolet from 1991." Lets find something that may be in the instrument cluster..airbag warning light, tachometer, etc. These all have the current tracks listed around the 70's. Current tracks are listed from left to right, each increasing by one if that makes sense. So now lets scroll to the track labeled 69 "airbag control light."

That big box on page 5 of 10 with all of the lines and stuff in it is the instrument cluster in schematic form. Look for a wire that is your color (main color first, then stripe color) and you should be able to locate what wire goes to where :thumbup:





Derekxj said:


> Hey again all. Was working on the cabby again last night.....Slapped on the new dist. cap and rotor. By tonight the new BP6ET plugs, and new wires should be coming in as well.
> I'll be changing the oil, installing all of that stuff. hopefully installing a new fuel filter ( if i can find where the old one is! ) ....new battery. Oh.....and crying over the under-hood wiring thanks to whatever Butcher had his fat fingers into this car before me. Wires are chewed up, cut, insulation so brittle wires break when i touched them. nothing is taped, connections are crimped and exposed ( and rotting )...Oh and the reason the battery was dead was probably because the exciter circuit wire that goes back to the alternator was completely broken out of its connector. :banghead:
> 
> Being as im a bit special.....I cant for the life of me figure out how to read the bently wiring schematics. all i want to know is why the two wires behind my cluster were cut. Or look like they were cut anyway. one is red. one is red on the smaller connector. the other is red / black off the larger connector. I dont want to reconnect without knowing what i am fixing.
> ...



You're officially knee deep into cabby world


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks oliver for all the detailed info!!! Big big help. The alternator exciter wire was the FIRST thing i noticed once i started tracing wires to find breaks........so stupid lol. 

As for the Power steering, i probably WILL leave this for last. Picking up a coil after work and then the ENTIRE tune-up will be complete, and everything installed tonight along with an
oil change. Im starting to dread after poking around that the head gasket MIGHT be leaking. engine really needs to be degreased before i can be sure of any sort of leak at this point. 

As for the broken wires....sheesh i was getting REALLY pissed off last night looking around. There were wires that were literally patched, with a 3" section of BARE stranded wire....twisted between the two broken parts. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: WHO DOES THAT?! 

Anyhow, as to the ones behind the dash. I reconnected them, but im still concerned as to what they are and have been trying to decipher the code in the bentley almost all mornign long. Can someone help? One is red on the smaller plug, and the other is black with red stripe on the larger connector. If i was able to see the connector itself in the schematic with all of its wires connected to it i could deff. trace it easier. 

Additionally, i found this connector right next to the head. 3 wires coming out of it ( on the short end ), are grounded to the valve cover. Is this supposed to be this way? Either way i REALLY need to locate somehow an entire new connector, with the wires. Just to short side that pushes in towards the back of the car. you can KIND of see it in this picture. Every wire coming out of it was dry rotted, cracked, broken....etc etc etc. 



And yes. EVERY single connection i fix, is soldered. Dielectric grease. marine grade heat shrink, and then taped. All connectors are sheathed over with marine grade shrink. 
One repair. Done once. Done right.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks oliver for all the detailed info!!! Big big help. The alternator exciter wire was the FIRST thing i noticed once i started tracing wires to find breaks........so stupid lol.
> 
> As for the Power steering, i probably WILL leave this for last. Picking up a coil after work and then the ENTIRE tune-up will be complete, and everything installed tonight along with an
> oil change. Im starting to dread after poking around that the head gasket MIGHT be leaking. engine really needs to be degreased before i can be sure of any sort of leak at this point.
> ...


I'm going to go through this post in reverse order.

Good, glad you know how to solder correctly :thumbup:

If you look in Brian's grounds thread it explains what that ground is. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5284503-Ground-effects-and-the-repair-of-your-car
I believe that connector goes to the o2 sensor.

Flip to the page "5 of 10" again in the Bentley. On the left side you will see BK/R labeled "too airbag control unit, j234" with a T6/5 written above it. The wire most powered an airbag light in the cluster which are most likely going to be on. 

It would suck to do a head gasket, but in all honesty you can do it in a day. But, if you take the head to a machine shop for around $200 he can most likely replace the seals, valve guides, and machine it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> I'm going to go through this post in reverse order.
> 
> Good, glad you know how to solder correctly :thumbup:
> 
> ...


thanks for clarifying....and for picking apart my posts. Big help! 
now....are you implying that the P.O. may have cut the wires cuz of an idiot light? Wonderful......as long as im not going to be at risk of an airbag punching me in the face because I reconnected them, then I can always track down the problem lol. Im going to find some nice 2 gauge tinned cable for all new grounds this evening and will be crimping bronze lugs onto them. Bye bye crappy grounds! 

As for the head....ill just keep telling myself that its not leaking, so I can sleep at night until I can prove that it is!


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> thanks for clarifying....and for picking apart my posts. Big help!
> now....are you implying that the P.O. may have cut the wires cuz of an idiot light? Wonderful......as long as im not going to be at risk of an airbag punching me in the face because I reconnected them, then I can always track down the problem lol. Im going to find some nice 2 gauge tinned cable for all new grounds this evening and will be crimping bronze lugs onto them. Bye bye crappy grounds!
> 
> As for the head....ill just keep telling myself that its not leaking, so I can sleep at night until I can prove that it is!


I'm glad I could help. I enjoy these cars and picking apart a post is a nice break from homework...

Scroll down to group 6, body externals (in the link below). Ron lists multiple things on disabling the air bags.. Basically you crimp the two black wires together...it's stupid simple. Sadly it looks like some of the images have been messed up due to some forum upgrade or something. But you can always copy and paste the links.
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/

Sounds like a good plan. As you know, sand down the connections lightly and also clean the bolt. Then you should be good to go!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> I'm glad I could help. I enjoy these cars and picking apart a post is a nice break from homework...
> 
> Scroll down to group 6, body externals (in the link below). Ron lists multiple things on disabling the air bags.. Basically you crimp the two black wires together...it's stupid simple. Sadly it looks like some of the images have been messed up due to some forum upgrade or something. But you can always copy and paste the links.
> http://reflectionsandshadows.com/a1-tech/
> ...


Thanks for that link!! never seen that site before its pretty awesome. alot of the stuff has broken links but alot of them still work as well.
really good stuff in here! 


Quick little update. Last night I finished the tune-up. Old wires had splits in them in spots.....the rotor contact was split, 
and i found not one...........not two...........but *THREE* different types of spark plugs in the engine. 
2- NGKBP6EV
1- AUTOLITE ( ford stamped on the plug )
1-Bosch 

again i must ask. WHO DOES THIS? All of the plugs were completely fouled and the contact tips all were down to the nub. 
Im waiting on a new coil to come and the tune-up will be 110% complete. 

Then I took the tinned marine grade 4 gauge cable, and custom crimped ends on them to rebuild the ground from Tranny to frame, and then frame to battery. Again. Dieelectric in the connector. crimped. then dielectric all over and then marine heat shrink. I will be coating all contact posts where the lugs connect in the Copper Anti-seize. They will never corrode again. While i was at it i started neatening up the mess of the headlight harness. I also disconnected various plugs like fan sensor, fan plug, all sorts of conenctors. wire brushing the terminals and then dielectric grease inside the connector to avoid future corrosion. 

I will be ordering a 4-relay block, as well as a 4-fuse block so that i can neatly and intelligently relay the headlights and high-beams ( even though i might be using the single-round grill ). this is to yet be decided but i'll be planning on having the 4 light grill anyhow wiring wise. 

Tonight i'll hopefully be continuing to repair connector ends, some other small ground straps etc etc. 
Once i get it started and hear it firing on all cylinders and so forth..........I will be turning my attention to all of the leaks as well
as the power steering system ( and hope that the rack isnt bad ). 

This thing should Purrrrrr like a kitten. ( hopefully ).


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## JsImber (Oct 6, 2003)

I read that you wanted to lower the car a bit, I currently have the neuspeed lowering springs on my cabriolet. I am going back to stock height and 13" wheels, so I can sell you the springs cheap if you would like and shipping to location. They do ride rough, every imperfection in the road can be felt. But I can take them off the car and send them your way if you are interested. They have been on the car over 12 years so they have thier fair share of ohio wear and tear, but still function perfectly fine.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

JsImber said:


> I read that you wanted to lower the car a bit, I currently have the neuspeed lowering springs on my cabriolet. I am going back to stock height and 13" wheels, so I can sell you the springs cheap if you would like and shipping to location. They do ride rough, every imperfection in the road can be felt. But I can take them off the car and send them your way if you are interested. They have been on the car over 12 years so they have thier fair share of ohio wear and tear, but still function perfectly fine.


I appreciate the notice! However, 12 years is a long time of driving for me to really be interested in putting on the car. Id like it to ride SOMEWHAT decent. I do like the way my gf looks, and would like her teeth not to fall out driving the thing! :laugh: 

haha. Thanks though man!


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## sehaare (Aug 4, 2003)

Sorry didn't read through the entire post so if you already have this info please disregard. 

From what I did read it looks like you had a wire cut to make the airbag lights go out. There was some really high level detective work done on here about a year or so ago where they were able to almost completely figure out the system including the code and how to clear them. I was able to clear the codes and make the light go out with the info. Kammy did a good job summing it all up on her site. 

http://www.cabby-info.com/airbag.htm

When you get to the point that you want to try and get the lights to clear this link should get you going in the right direction.

Steve


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey all! So did a bunch of work on the EA over the weekend in the comfort of a nice heated garage while temperature outside creeped down WELL into the negatives. 
Ugh. Anyhow....I discovered the following *new things*. 
Additionally. I finally got the new coil in , and replaced the coil brack to cowl ground while i was at it with a nice fresh piece of 8 gauge wire. 

1. While inspecting coolant hoses and tracing each i realized 

A. Some genious bypassed the heater core completely. Im concerned this, combined with poor dribbling coolant return to tank, combined with my 
worries of the head-gasket leaking MIGHT mean someone dumped some stop leak in and it clogged the heater core, and took out the water pump. 

B. I cannot, at all turn the power steering pump by hand. Seems to be 110% seized. Also noticed two bolts are missing out of the mounting for it, in conjunction 
with the tensioner missing. What did someone start to uninstall it and give up ? Jackasses! :banghead: 

C. Changed the fuel filter.......the STOCK looking OEM fuel filter that is with 200+ on it. again....what was going on with this car? Lol. Are there 
any other fuel filters hidden anywhere that i should replace? 

E. I fond out why the horn doesnt work. The OEM connector has one horizontal, and one vertical plug. the horn that looked OEM and that was jammed and bolted to the
lower valence has two horizontal connectors and was not connected obviously. now i need to find a stock horn. 

D. Noticed the dust shield on the bellhousing / engine is missing entirely. Someone just had to have their fingers in every part of this car didnt they..... 
In addition to this, the tranny pan is surely leaking. Ive been strongly advised to deal with that one, and not drop that fluid or i'll be swapping the tranny out 
sooner than i expected 

F. What the heck is this part? I keep noticing it, and keep getting pissed that its so random and serving no purpose. If i look REALLY close on the right side of it
it almost looks like there was a wire coming out of it that was cut completely flush with the face of it. Sensor of some sort? i have not a single clue.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The arrow is pointing to a air temp sensor. It makes the fan kick on if the engine compartment is too hot. Theres a description of it in another thread.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7121405-radiator-fan-not-turning-on


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> The arrow is pointing to a air temp sensor. It makes the fan kick on if the engine compartment is too hot. Theres a description of it in another thread.
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7121405-radiator-fan-not-turning-on


Okay thanks alot!! 

I just read through that and also found the possible replacements on GAP. 
Im going to check the sensor later tonight and then hopefully order a replacement. 
I wonder if the black wire with connector thats just hanging in my engine bay goes to that sensor.

I also like how some idiot put it on the front of the valve cover rather than on the back where it's supposed to be!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> I also like how some idiot put it on the front of the valve cover rather than on the back where it's supposed to be!


Well, considering what the rest of that car has endured, ^that should come as no surprise. :laugh:

As for that sensor (after-run thermoswitch), there are two; be sure to get the correct one for your car: http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Sensors .


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Well, considering what the rest of that car has endured, ^that should come as no surprise. :laugh:
> 
> As for that sensor (after-run thermoswitch), there are two; be sure to get the correct one for your car: http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Sensors .


You're certainly correct about this. 

While i have you guru's here answering these silly questions.........

How do all of you feel about making two small incisions on the side of the heater box to avoid taking the entire dash apart and off to remove the heater core? 
How Trouble free really IS this little trick ??? I can surely plastic weld the flap back thats not the problem. I just dont want to cut into the heater box only to come
into other issues. Other than this, 
http://www.driversfound.com/scirocco/techtips/body/heatercore/

Havent found any accounts really of guy's doing it this way which concerns me.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> ....
> C. Changed the fuel filter.......the STOCK looking OEM fuel filter that is with 200+ on it. again....what was going on with this car? Lol. Are there
> any other fuel filters hidden anywhere that i should replace?
> ....
> ...


C. Nope

D. What do you mean about changing the fluid?


Heater box wise, people have done it that way. I believe Brian actually has done it like that before.
I personally just pulled out the whole box but that was kind of a pain as I had to disconnect the ac lines and all. If you plan on pulling the dash, just wait to replace the core and do it the "correct" way.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Removing the Heater core correctly is a PITA. You have to take off the following.
Heater motor out of the engine compartment including the fresh air vent. Remove the upper dash radio, controls and switches Remove the kneebar.
Get all of the controls out of your way, a/c equipped you have to remove the thermo switch tube from the box.

Then you have to disconnect the a/c lines, remove the vent directors at the top, and that rubber band they hold it on with is finger caught in the rear. To top that off you have to then separate the 2 halves of the heater box. Did I mention that you have to remove the center console too.

Then you remove the 2 heater hoses and if you don't pinch them at the firewall they pee all the a/f on the floor.

Reassembling it is another pain in the arse as you can't see the fingers on the rubber band to hook them too.. I can remember one time that I said the hell with it and used Tin duct tape... Then reconnecting the a/c lines, run a vac to suck the lines down fill with r134A..... Pains me to think about it....

Skipping ahead to Drivers Found....
Easy Use pinch Disconnect the hoses on the engine side of the fire wall and using a turkey baster Remove all the fluid from the core, you can pinch the hoses off to further reduce the a/f loss.
Remove 4 phillips screws that cover the hoses.
Remove the hose clamps but leave the hoses attached.
Now the side of the heater box has a dimple in the plastic where the core is sitting. Using a dremel or hack saw blade saw down from where the hoses are to the bottom on both sides.
Pry that thing down. and remove the core by wiggeling pushing and grunting, that is the worst part.
Once the Core is out remove the hoses and use a pan to catch the a/f. 
Clean out the bottom of the a/c box to clean crud and debris that may be waiting to plug the drain.
Replace the foam on the new core and slide it in, you have to get it fully seated. Bend the cut back up, and here is the neat part that I did.
Cut a Piece of black plastic the side of the cut out to the heater core hose cover and file whittle or sand it at the top. Cut it Bigger than the hole I thin I did about a 1/2 inch over lap. I used the bottom out of a tool box tray I had laying about. 
I put silicone on the edges of the bend down flap, closed it up over laid my plastic cover and fastened it with 3 grommeted black short trim screws. You cant see the cut, and it looks semi factory.
You can also use black gaffers tape but I didn't think it would be as durable as the plastic.

Replace the cover plate over the hoses, hoses clamps then connect the hose clamps to the core, tighten, replace cover get three of the 4 screws back in, One is hidden and a pain..so I left it off. I remember having to use a stubby to get the upper one.


I have done it both ways..... Drivers found gets a thumbs up, but the cover makes it look more better IMHO. No matter how you repair the cut it will still look less than perfect. The Cover has the OEM feel.





I don't do everything to OEM spec... all the time, but it looks that way when I am done.

On the Automatic transmission there is no lower cover plate that you find on a manual, why you ask? Because there is nothing in there that can get contaminated... Ie dirt or rock in the clutch mechanism.

Besides there are big as the sky holes in the housing anyway.



There is the tin piece that is between the engine and the upper bell housing but nothing lower.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> C. Nope
> 
> D. What do you mean about changing the fluid?
> 
> ...


Regarding changing the fluid. I mean that i know in some vehicles, after so many miles on the same fluid or on the original fluid they say you REALLY shouldnt change it, as its holding metal particles in it that are essentially keeping the gears functioning. Ive plenty of times had friends change their filter and fluid on automatic transmissions after getting a car, almost always 4 cyl. smaller cars and not even a week later.......Boom. See you later transmission!! I had the same thing happen on a jeep i had bought years ago. Did a drop / add on the rear differential fluid. It came out like MUD and as soon as I saw that i knew i was in trouble. I put the new fluid in and literally not even 15 miles later....i grenaded the pinion and it took out the whole rear. This is all i meant. That perhaps i shouldnt drop the pan to replace the gasket and do a filter and fluid change with this knowledge.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Removing the Heater core correctly is a PITA. You have to take off the following.
> Heater motor out of the engine compartment including the fresh air vent. Remove the upper dash radio, controls and switches Remove the kneebar.
> Get all of the controls out of your way, a/c equipped you have to remove the thermo switch tube from the box.
> 
> ...



Wow Brian thumbs up on this awesome. Looks like i've found the " Cabby Messiah " here with you. Theres always one in every forum. Thanks for being it here! 

Anyhow. Your info and photo's are awesome and helpful. To be honest. I dont really even mind the cover you made i think as you said it looks fairly factory. 
I yanked the dash in my 84 rabbit to do the heater core but mainly because mice had inhabited the heater box ENTIRELY after the car sat for almost 15 years.......
WHAT a PITA. I am sure that......once you remove a dash, things will NEVER go back exactly how they came out for some reason. Thats how it was in my 84. It just simply didnt fit back nicely, and it was a huge ordeal. The cabby dash i can tell has never been out. Do i have the ability and tools to get it out? Absolutely. But in your opinion, 
is it REALLY a road that is worth going down? I honestly at this point dont think i have any OTHER reasons for pullign the dash so it cant be a " kill 2 birds with one stone" kind of ordeal. How long would it take me to pull the dash? The cluster, bezel switches and radio are already out. 

Why does everyone complain so much about removing the center console? I need to replace the bulbs in those gauges so im going to need to get behind it and replace those as well as the holders. Going to order a heater core tomorrow so im just trying to find a plan of attack that will save me time and aggravation.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Here she is after about 3 weeks of work. 



Shes just about ready to fire up!!!

I know, doesnt look like much but I work a full time job, and then do sidework after work. So I dont typically start working on the car until about 9 at night, and work until 12. Sometimes i try to squeeze in a few hours here and there on the weekends in between spending time with the GF. I cant exactly just say " going to work on the car I plan to suprise you with 2 months from now! " 

Anyway, Getting ready to place a big order from GAP, as well as order the spectre heater core replacement from amazon ( its cheapest there and on prime ). 
PLEASE let me know if you see anything missing.....OR if it looks like i could save money ordering somewhere else, or if a brand of something that im buying is garbage.
Im going to try and tackle the power steering pump as well being as it has to come off to get to the water pump anyhow. 
I will be probably getting a re manufactured one from my friend who has an account with a parts store. While im in there behind the timing belt and water pump, i would like to change whatever i can, even if its just preventative maintenance. Please Advise  I will be needing plenty of.... :beer::beer::beer:


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Just for the record, I did the 'slice the air box open on the side' to replace the heater core, successfully. 

its all dark down there anyway...you'd have to really look to tell anything has been done.

Good work so far.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Just for the record, I did the 'slice the air box open on the side' to replace the heater core, successfully.
> 
> its all dark down there anyway...you'd have to really look to tell anything has been done.
> 
> Good work so far.


Thanks man!!! Im giving it my best go. In the meantime my MK1 and jeep are suffering hard so im trying to push this as hard and fast as i can.

How hard of a time did you have with it? Ive seen it can STILL be difficult to get it out kind of. were you able to plastic weld it back ?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

There actually is a faint line molded into the plastic that just so happens to match the size/shape of the heater core.
If you look close you can see it.

I used a dremel to slice open along that existing line up/down.
Peeled it back a little till I could see the core. That gave me how far up to cut. Once the up was cut, then opening it 
a little more gave you how far to go to cut the other side up/down line. I made a upside down U cut(square corners).
Pulled the flap downward. After removing the hoses by the pedals, the core pulled out the drivers side with no issues.

Once the new core was installed, I just bent the flap up again and covered the gaps with black silicon sealant. 
Brian has a great idea for coverage...I didn't go that far.

Its just air that goes thru there...so as long as there were no air leaks, its all good.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> There actually is a faint line molded into the plastic that just so happens to match the size/shape of the heater core.
> If you look close you can see it.
> 
> I used a dremel to slice open along that existing line up/down.
> ...


Okay. thanks for the details. This is certainly how im going to go about it. I dont think i have the mental capacity at this point to yank the dash out. Plus theres really no need to if i cant accomplish the task this way. Not to mention, while the car IS in a garage that has a propane heater.....its REALLY cold here. most nights have been around 0 and things will break very easily.

Anybody know where i can get the black plastic cap that goes ontop of the heater controls to kind of hold everything down? It's completely missing on mine. 
OR if anybody knows where i can score a used cheap control setup.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

As much time as it took, I removed the drivers seat to have enough room.
Wasn't going to hang upside down for a long time.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> As much time as it took, I removed the drivers seat to have enough room.
> Wasn't going to hang upside down for a long time.


Ah brings me to my next question because im looking to get the seats out of the car ASAP. 
These EA seats arent in the most pristine shape and everytime i sit on them to do work and i feel my fat leg on the bolster i cringe. They need to be stored and 
cleaned up / repaired while i continue the work. Plus i want to take the carpet out.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

On the seat track nearest the center hump of the car...theres a plastic cover held on by a screw.
Remove the screw.
Remove the plastic cover.

On the center/bottom of the seat itself, theres a metal plate with a bunch of holes in it to allow positioning.
On the end of the metal plate is a 10mm nut/bolt.
Remove the 10mm nut/bolt.

Lift the seat slider arm...slide the whole seat to the rear until it slides off the tracks completely.

Done.

I bought my seats to an upholstery shop. had them take the lower seat cover off and repair the foam. it was ripped exposing the metal support bars.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> On the seat track nearest the center hump of the car...theres a plastic cover held on by a screw.
> Remove the screw.
> Remove the plastic cover.
> 
> ...


Thanks alot going to get this done before i attempt the core.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Forgot to mention to unplug the seat belt sensor wire..

whatever it is called, watch for wiring to be unplugged when you pull the seat.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Forgot to mention to unplug the seat belt sensor wire..
> 
> whatever it is called, watch for wiring to be unplugged when you pull the seat.


10/4 . Thanks. Any tips for back-seat removal? I assume the bottom and top will come out of the car together, is this accurate?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Bottom back seat:

two plastic covers(may be missing) over metal plate, front edge of bottom seat, each with a phillips in it.

each plate is about centered in the seating position, one left side one right side.

Pull the screws.
Bottom seat just pulls out after that. 

rear top seat held in by bolt acting as pivot point.
open trunk
pull seat unlock in trunk area
pull seat release, drivers side upper corner of seat
tilt forward.

remove pivot bolt bottom(17mm?)...only need to pull one side.
other side is a pin the seat frame pivot just fits over(if i remember right).
top of seat comes out at this point.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> 10/4 . Thanks. Any tips for back-seat removal? I assume the bottom and top will come out of the car together, is this accurate?


Negative on the back seats. Bottom comes out with two Philips screws. Very secure.... Just leave the back on the car. No reason to take it out.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks for the heads up. I may just leave the back of the back seat in as you mentioned. I just wanted the interior completely bare so that i can get the carpet out and REALLY clean this thing out and make it like new. The seats on the other hand.........will never look brand new : / 

I found a little hook in Deutschland however for possibly some EA parts including door arm rests, a new seat bottom for the driver side. 
2 headrests......and a blue EA Cover for the top ( if i feel like shelling out about 500 bucks for it :thumbdown::thumbdown , which i can almost guarantee i wont. Oh well.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks for the heads up. I may just leave the back of the back seat in as you mentioned. I just wanted the interior completely bare so that i can get the carpet out and REALLY clean this thing out and make it like new. The seats on the other hand.........will never look brand new : /
> 
> I found a little hook in Deutschland however for possibly some EA parts including door arm rests, a new seat bottom for the driver side.
> 2 headrests......and a blue EA Cover for the top ( if i feel like shelling out about 500 bucks for it :thumbdown::thumbdown , which i can almost guarantee i wont. Oh well.


Removal of the front seats are in this thread.

*My seat rocks and is hard to slide*

For the how to remove your rear seat:
Remove the 2 Phillips screws that are holding the Bottom of the seat and the plastic covers.


Lift up on the front of the seat, then pull the rear tab out of the lock by pulling the seat bottom towards you.

For the Back seat, you will open the trunk.
Pull the latch lock at the upper left of the trunk.
Pull the seat back release on the drivers side of the seat back to allow the seat back to pivot.
On the bottom 2 corners of the seat Left side and Right side pull the pointy part up, and there are either a Phillips shoulderd screw or a Torx, I have seen both that hold the seat back. Remove those screws if the seat locks just unlock it again.. and pull the seat back out. If you are cleaning it, removing the seat is prevents you from wetting the seat back cardboard cover.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Awesome thanks alot for the pictures they help. Hopefully i will be getting back into the garage this weekend to start it up for the first time since rolling it in there, 
and starting the next phase. 

Brian what do you think about my most recent parts list. anything I am missing?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

For removing the pan on the Automatic Tranny there are 4 10mm bolts. But you have to take the skid cover off and that is 4 17 or 19mm bolts to remove to on the drivers side and 2 in the front.

You have to drop the Skid plate before you can really get to the pan. 

Now what I have seen over the years, is that One of the POS (Previous Owners Shops ie: jiffy lube) has drilled a hole in the pan and inserted a rubber plug. That Rubber plug disintegrates as rubber will and starts to drip...... You have to use a screw to push up the plug to remove it. Here is the fun part, trying to find a replacement. Luckily I had a spare pan to replace it with.
My pans have had the original seals on them from day one, once the pan bolts are tightened they shouldn't leak at all.
(If some one has over tightened them and stripped, you will probably have to helicoil the bolt hole.) 

The filter you can remove with one phillips screw, (warning Paper Gasket under it) and flush that out with brake clean... GENTLY.....
Replace the pan, and top of with 2 1/2 quarts of DextronIII atf fluid.

To totally exchange the ATF fluid here is what I recommend.

Build a 1 Quart Vacuum Jar.


You will need about 5 feet of vinyl tubing, a 1 quart mason jar, or Pasta sauce jar (glass). Your vinyl tubing is about 5/16 id I think IIRC, but the od has to fit down the ATF dip stick hole. You drill 2 holes in the Pasta Jar lid, and insert one end of the tubing almost to the bottom. The other end you want to be about 2 inches below the inside of the top.



Seal it with Jb-Weld that is you want the tube sealed good with glue to get it vacuum tight.

Now on the short side of the tube you will cut that about 18 inches. The long side you have goes in to the Dip-Stick hole to the bottom of the tranny pan.

You either use a Mighty-Vac or a turkey baster to suck in Quarts as much fluid out of the pan as you can.
Once you know the amount that you have sucked out, (you are measuring it in quarts) you fill the Tranny back up with Fresh fluid. Replace the Dip-stick, and drive the car about 1 mile, then you suck out as much as you can and replace with fresh.
Drive 1 mile and re-peat. You will need roughly 9 to 12 quarts of fluid, as you are replacing old with new, The Torque Converter hold about 3.5 quarts. The Pan about 3... So dropping your pan only gets half the fluid out, as there is still plenty left int he convertor. 

This method that I use dilutes the old and replaces it to further dilute it, then more and more. It doesn't necessarily cleans all the crap out, but the fluids Suspended Crap will be removed. You have to drive the car about a mile so the Convertor and fluid gets exchanged. 

Changing the Fluid this way is less messier, and will extend the life of the tranny.
VW used these Trannys from about the Late 60's up to 95-96.... They are damn near bullet proof. 

VW used 2 different fluids in the Tranny ATF and 90 weight in the differential.
In my Thread on R&R a torque convertor seal (FAQ's) I show you how to change it.

Now on a Down side, the 010 tranny has a Kryptonite seal. This Seal prevents the intermix of the ATF to the Differentials 90 weight. One of the Tell-Tell signs is that the Tranny Fluid starts to smell like 90weight, and that the tranny starts to leak from the air expansion ports. I have seen that the inermix is usually ATF in to the differential as the ATF under more pressure bleeds to the Diff. The Diff over fills and the fluids start to come out the air expansion port. 

Now the Good news, is that you can Frankenstien the thing, that is remove the transmission and Pull the Bell Housing off, and exchange the differentials with a JunkYard Spare, or Replace the seal.

Trans Star Transmission parts have the Seal, or they used to. 

Exchanging the Fluid is a good thing on a new to you Tranny.
There are reports on the interweb of the 010 in a Vanagon going over 400K before rebuild with regular maintenance.
VW used this tranny in the older VW aircooleds with a different differential of course..

Now the question I pose to you is which type of fluid is this, 90 wt or ATF, as if it is 90wt, then look at your axle cups as that is where that normally comes from as the Axle cup seals are worn.

You can change those on the car, and I have a DIY in the FAQs on that.

Parts Kit looks ok. Read my DIY or FAQ, or search the forum for I still hate plastic parts, as there are a few more that you can replace..... Getting rid of the front and Side Water outlet flanges with metal ones from a older RABBIT Diesel, and a Cabriolet or fox Makes the car less likely to leak as well as the 50 dollar heater valve (all metal) and the heater hose plastic barbed fitting add to the reliability of these little critters.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Wow, this thread is barely a month old and already so long.. I forgot most of the comments I was going to make LOL...

Regarding suspension, Kamz mentioned the H&R sports. I did those combined with Koni Yellows on the cabriolet in my sig file. It originally had Racelands, and the koni/h&r's ride GREAT. I will be doing the exact same setup on my Cabriolet, and probably on my 79 build.

Have you fired it since installing the new tune up parts? One thing I was noticing in your earlier pictures is the intake tube wasnt fully connected to the air meter. THAT will cause it to run like hell. Go over that tube and other vacuum lines with a fine toothed comb. The intake boots get hard from the underhood heat and they crack(and then leak). When they leak, the engines run rough as heck. Thats why ones that are still soft and airtight fetch an easy 40 to 50 bucks on the classifieds, and why you see so many of these cars with duct taped boots.

What are you going to do about the rust in the windsheild frame. You mention ways of repairing alot of the other damage with minimal bodywork, that a pillar rust is going to take some time and needs to be done right. Those rust holes are usually acommpanied by another hole on the backside of the windshield(behind the dash), and the water leaks in then drips down the inside of the passenger compartment all over the wiring harness and fuse box connections.

Many people just mud them up with Bondo.. some will do it "right" and hit it with a wire wheel and fiberglass it and then bondo it.. Unfortunately both of these methods just make for a bigger mess to repair down the road because it will likely continue to spread and leak.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> For removing the pan on the Automatic Tranny there are 4 10mm bolts. But you have to take the skid cover off and that is 4 17 or 19mm bolts to remove to on the drivers side and 2 in the front.
> 
> You have to drop the Skid plate before you can really get to the pan.
> 
> ...


This is great thanks so much!!! 

So are you telling me i should clean the existing filter and not purchase this parts kit for 13 bucks? 

http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/13366

Also, I guess now im confused. My 84 Rabbit has a transmission, which has the gears in it and the output for the axles. from what i gather from what you're telling me. 
My 91 cabby ( dont criticize too much havent really spent any time under it yet. ).....has the automatic transmission with a SEPARATE differential box behind it, which has the axle outputs comign out of it. THAT diff is filled with 90 weight. So, is it advisable to replace that fluid as well? is that gearbox easy to remove to replace that output seal?

So....on THIS particular transmission. the 010 automatic. I don't have to worry about the replacement of fluid leading to a dead / slipping transmission? 
If so, thats awesome news. I like maintenance. and i like preventative maintenance even more. Where in the line does the turkey baster go?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Wow, this thread is barely a month old and already so long.. I forgot most of the comments I was going to make LOL...
> 
> Regarding suspension, Kamz mentioned the H&R sports. I did those combined with Koni Yellows on the cabriolet in my sig file. It originally had Racelands, and the koni/h&r's ride GREAT. I will be doing the exact same setup on my Cabriolet, and probably on my 79 build.
> 
> ...


Hey, yeah im getting alot of feedback over here in cabby world which is fantastic. Im slowly learning about these little 8V's / rotboxes! 

Anyhow. As for the suspension. I dont think im going to have the funds before everything is said and done to get to installing any real WORTHY suspension. Racelands if im lucky. 
Since i've installed everything, i have not infact fired her up yet. that will most likely be this weekend. In the earlier photo's i had already started to take things apart and off so thats most likely what you were seeing. right now everything is pretty dang tight. I HAVE noticed however that i am missing a vaccuum line or atleast i think i am. on the side of the airbox there are two little tiny ports. i only have a vaccuum hose going to ONE of them. No other loose lines hanging around so not sure what the other is for. 

As for the windshield frame.....Unfortunately i can almost be certain i am not going to be able to get to this, or do anything about this. My BIG question i guess, 
is will i even be able to have safelite or someone come in and change the windshield for me with it being this way? I hate to gift away a car with a cracked windshield....
but like i said i cant take on that rust issue right now and if thats going to stop me from having the windshield replaced then i wont be able to.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

One option would to be to not go back to the glue in style windsheild. The early cars had the windsheild held in with a rubber seal. The advantage of this is that when you go to make a repair to that area you cut the seal with a knife and safely remove the windsheild yourself. The seal is about $40. 
Then after the repair, you can either try reinstalling the windsheild, or have a professional come out and do it. But the good thing is you dont have to pay for a pro to come out and remove the glass and then come out again later.

Just tell the glass company for this go round that you want a windsheild for an 86 or so with the rubber gasket. The glass is slightly smaller for the gasket style glass to accommodate the thickness of the seal. But once you have that, you are good. If you want to survey the damage, and possibly attempt a repair of the area, theres really nothing lost by removing the windsheild yourself. Harbor Junk has a windsheild removal kit which is some wire and some handles. You and your partner use the wire to cut the bonding glue and once its cut you remove the glass. You have a 75% chance of breaking the glass, but its already broke so big deal.

Klokkerholm sells a replacement section for the area, and its only about 20$. If you have a connection that does body work(you mentioned someone is shooting the hood), and you remove the glass and take him the car and the Klokkerholm patch, if he is remotely friends with you I would bet he would only charge 100-200 bucks to remove the rot and weld in the repair section and do the skim coat of filler. With the glass out and the patch there, its about a 2 hour job). You are already paying him to shoot the hood, so shooting this area as well should be a minimal extra expense, but go a long way to the longetivity of the car. 

Regarding windsheilds, do not use Safelite! Their glass sucks. There are many reports of it being thinner.. My problem was when I was building my parents car I went to put the windsheild back in, and it was the hardest windsheild I ever fought with, and it finally shattered. I had a glass company come out, thinking I was just losing my touch or something to fit a window to the old hole. They had the PPG brand windshield installed in 15 minutes. When I explained what I did, they said it should have worked but asked if it was a Safelite windsheild.. I said I don't know, but they said their dimensional precision is not that good, and that while a professional can work them in an amatuer likely wont be successful. So we went out behind the shop where the broken glass was, and it had Safelite's marking on it.. That was enough for me.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

You suck on the hose that is the short one the one barely out of the top....The one that goes to near the bottom of the jar is what you suck from. 

The Trannys are a little strange, if it is slipping, then a refresh isn't going to help.
If the Tranny is Hard to shift, that is a different issue.
If the tranny is hard to shift when it is cold and shifts better as it warms, that is normal for the winter.
If the tranny is over full it is as bad as being low.

That is why you measure what you suck out to replace it the same on the last exchange, you will drive it about a mile and refill it to the full mark.... a little at a time, because the full to less full is only about 6 ounces different.

I would also like to at the final fill Add one can of SeaFoam ATF conditioner.... It is good for the Tranny as well as the power steering...


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

briano1234 said:


> You suck on the hose that is the short one the one barely out of the top....The one that goes to near the bottom of the jar is what you suck from.
> 
> The Trannys are a little strange, if it is slipping, then a refresh isn't going to help.
> If the Tranny is Hard to shift, that is a different issue.
> ...


You don't really need the filter......


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> One option would to be to not go back to the glue in style windsheild. The early cars had the windsheild held in with a rubber seal. The advantage of this is that when you go to make a repair to that area you cut the seal with a knife and safely remove the windsheild yourself. The seal is about $40.
> Then after the repair, you can either try reinstalling the windsheild, or have a professional come out and do it. But the good thing is you dont have to pay for a pro to come out and remove the glass and then come out again later.
> 
> Just tell the glass company for this go round that you want a windsheild for an 86 or so with the rubber gasket. The glass is slightly smaller for the gasket style glass to accommodate the thickness of the seal. But once you have that, you are good. If you want to survey the damage, and possibly attempt a repair of the area, theres really nothing lost by removing the windsheild yourself. Harbor Junk has a windsheild removal kit which is some wire and some handles. You and your partner use the wire to cut the bonding glue and once its cut you remove the glass. You have a 75% chance of breaking the glass, but its already broke so big deal.
> ...


Hm. Interesting for sure. Now a question. If i was to lets say pull the windshield out myself. Obviously im going to find bad spots in that seam / channel. Be it as it may.......Lets THEN say that i cannot afford the time or money to deal with it, for a while atleast. If i call a company will they refuse to install the new windshield with that rot in there? This is my big question.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Does Anybody know where i can purchase the metal coolant pipe for this car? 

I cant seem to locate one anywhere......and while im redoing basically the entire cooling system except for the radiator.........
I dont want to leave this pipe. It looks rusted pretty dang bad. I lost the pipe to a burst on my 84 diesel rabbit and had to make up
a phoney version out of a bunch of random hose and connectors. I dont want to have to do that on this car and would like to purchase a replacement if possible.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Napa has one listed, I think that there is a port that you have to plug off with a rubber cap, which you can get there too or at the home center nearest you.

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...Heater-Hose-Pipe/_/R-ATM027121065D_0257250574


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Napa has one listed, I think that there is a port that you have to plug off with a rubber cap, which you can get there too or at the home center nearest you.
> 
> http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...Heater-Hose-Pipe/_/R-ATM027121065D_0257250574


Awesome thanks!!! 

Im going to give them a call when i get home. How you found that i have no idea as i just spent about 15 minutes searching with limited results!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> So are you telling me i should clean the existing filter and not purchase this parts kit for 13 bucks?
> 
> http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/13366


I'm not an A/T Cabriolet owner, but coming from the A/T Vanagon perspective, you want to get the kit. :thumbup:



Derekxj said:


> Also, I guess now im confused. My 84 Rabbit has a transmission, which has the gears in it and the output for the axles. from what i gather from what you're telling me.
> My 91 cabby ( dont criticize too much havent really spent any time under it yet. ).....has the automatic transmission with a SEPARATE differential box behind it, which has the axle outputs comign out of it. THAT diff is filled with 90 weight. So, is it advisable to replace that fluid as well? is that gearbox easy to remove to replace that output seal?


The automatic _transaxle_ is comprised of the transmission and differential. The transmission requires ATF, the differential requires gear oil. The two fluids can mix if the seal between the two fails. Given the neglect your car has endured, I'd be replacing all fluids in the car.
http://www.cabby-info.com/transmission.htm#Fluid




BoostedOne said:


> One option would to be to not go back to the glue in style windsheild.


That is the only option: The glue-in windshield assembly for the '90-'93 USA (i.e. airbag) cars is NLA.
http://www.cabby-info.com/body.htm#Windshield



Derekxj said:


> Hm. Interesting for sure. Now a question. If i was to lets say pull the windshield out myself. Obviously im going to find bad spots in that seam / channel. Be it as it may.......Lets THEN say that i cannot afford the time or money to deal with it, for a while atleast. If i call a company will they refuse to install the new windshield with that rot in there? This is my big question.


The best course of action is to repair that damage while the glass is out. Once this car leaves that nice garage, you don't want that rust getting any worse by sitting out in the rain/snow... not to mention water leaking into the interior and damaging the electrics (relay panel, specifically).

You'll want to contact a glass company (and ditto on not using Safelite; use a local who can source PPG glass) and ask about the rotted frame issue.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

kamzcab86 said:


> You'll want to contact a glass company (and ditto on not using Safelite; use a local who can source PPG glass) and ask about the rotted frame issue.


My dealing with them is they will replace it, but not warranty it against leaking.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

briano1234 said:


> My dealing with them is they will replace it, but not warranty it against leaking.


You beat me to it. 

seriously though look around. Typically glass guys aren't body guys and body guys aren't glass guys. So if you get the glass out of the way a body guy could do the patch pretty easy. If not then they gotta estimate on what they can't see yet, pay a glass guy etc. You also might want to reach out to some of the guys who build cars in the Mk1 forum. A lot of guys do their own work. Prom king and 69clark are both in new York somewhere and have some impressive cars.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks gents. I guess what I will do, that is if i even decide to put money and energy into this before gifting the car away ( obviously i'll still be the one maintaining it etc etc ), 
I will try and get intouch with a GOOD glass guy, and just have some discussions with them regarding the issue, and the glass and seal yada yada yada. 

In other news. All of the parts were just ordered!! Now im REALLY in for it! ugh. Probably going to fire her up tomorrow morning. Cant drive it at all because there is a boat, utility trailer and 3 other vehicles blocking it in the garage its in, but that okay. I just want to hear it run, and run smoothly and i know it will drive okay. Before it went into the garage i took it up and down the block and the transmission seemed to shift just fine. Car had VERY little power and was running like crap, but i believe these are all issues that i have fixed in doing just the work that i have done so far. 

about 180 bucks worth of parts are on their way!! That should keep me busy for atleast the next couple weeks. Im sure as usual there will be a TON of photo's to follow. 

Its starting to become difficult explaining to the girlfriend why im practically living at my buddies house lol. I cant exactly come out with it as i want the cabby to be a complete suprise, 
So for now its just " we've been doing alot of work on his house!! " She'll understand when she becomes a cabby owner in a couple months! :thumbup:


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Nobody ever said this was exactly easy..but when you get in and feel the wind in your hair...the work just doesn't seem to be as hard. 
Good job.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Nobody ever said this was exactly easy..but when you get in and feel the wind in your hair...the work just doesn't seem to be as hard.
> Good job.


Yeah you are right. It never is easy you're right about that but i enjoy it none the less. Im an architect by trade....im sitting at a desk all day which simply is not in my blood. by the time i get home every night at 730, im practically convulsing because i need to do SOME version of real physical work. Side work, swinging hammers or turning wrenches. Its all i really want to do lol. 

As for the wind in my hair. Yeah, this may be true. I have a well built TJ Wrangler myself that was my DD for years and years until i got my rabbit.
I come from a world where i can not only have the wind in my hair ( salt water breeze ), but also hang my leg out of the door while driving on the beach. :beer: 

Doorless-mod the cabby so i can feel more at home? lol. nawwwww. The car isnt for me anyway. I need to keep reminding myself of that!


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

By the way, the glue in glass for the 90-93 is no longer being sold. If you pull the glass you'll have to go back with the rubber gasket glass.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

ok guys. Fired her up. Ran much better. Couple issues but will get into that later with photos as right now something s really bugging me alot and I cant figure it out. Starter was dragging a little bit but thats no big deal. I started car. Ran 15 minutes maybe shut it down. Restarted with no issues. Shut down. Restarted also no issue. Shut down. At this point I went under dash and started checking fuses just because. found #17 was more or less bad so replaced with another 10 amp. Went to start it, and NOTHING. All I hear when I turn key to crank is the fuel pump. The car will not turn over at all. Checked all connections and they are mint. Read about heat soak so waited 20 minutes tried again and nothing still. Removed fuse #17, and still nothing. What could have happened? I didnt touch anything Other than checking continuity across the fuses. 

This is really bothering me right now maybe more than it should, but it is.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Probably totally unrelated. Jiggle the shifter? I think the auto has a nuetral safety switch that can get funky.

On a 91 according to the Bentley fuse 17 powers the coil of ecu power relay and the airbag module. If its priming the pump then fuse 17 is doing its job.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Fuse 17 is switched power for the Digifant system. Are you sure the replacement fuse is 100% good? That fuse is part of the circuit that runs through relay 1 (position 1, not #1). You also have an automatic, which brings the park/neutral safety switch and its related relays into play (you can bypass the switch by jumping the two big red wires -- do this for testing purposes only; you can also bypass the relays: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/BypassingInterlock.pdf ). Also, since this is the switched circuit we're looking at, the ignition switch itself could be faulty (test it; see last page of http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/IgnitionSwitch.pdf ).


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

kamzcab86 said:


> Fuse 17 is switched power for the Digifant system. Are you sure the replacement fuse is 100% good? That fuse is part of the circuit that runs through relay 1 (position 1, not #1). You also have an automatic, which brings the park/neutral safety switch and its related relays into play (you can bypass the switch by jumping the two big red wires -- do this for testing purposes only; you can also bypass the relays: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/BypassingInterlock.pdf ). Also, since this is the switched circuit we're looking at, the ignition switch itself could be faulty (test it; see last page of http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/IgnitionSwitch.pdf ).


Don't forget the last little bugger, the bristles from the shifter cover can fall on to the shifter as you move it. Drive and the Lows don't seem to care, but as you push the lever forward to park you pile the bristles under the park Switch, which gives you a dickens of a time trying to start it...as the switch is being insulated by the bristles....


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Agree. Here's a crappy pic of the mechanism. You have a copper piece on the shift lever and there's certain exposed stationary contacts it touches. The bristles can get in there and keep the copper piece on the shifter from making the contacts


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Fuse 17 is switched power for the Digifant system. Are you sure the replacement fuse is 100% good? That fuse is part of the circuit that runs through relay 1 (position 1, not #1). You also have an automatic, which brings the park/neutral safety switch and its related relays into play (you can bypass the switch by jumping the two big red wires -- do this for testing purposes only; you can also bypass the relays: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/BypassingInterlock.pdf ). Also, since this is the switched circuit we're looking at, the ignition switch itself could be faulty (test it; see last page of http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/IgnitionSwitch.pdf ).


So fuse 17 replacement that i installed is infact 110% good. I checked it with my continuity meter. I went back to the car last night. I didnt have much time 
but i had enough time to double check the fuse, and to try to restart. Nothing. The neutral safety switch also seemed cleared of bristles. Im probably going to try to attempt to bypass the relays i guess before i go about removing the kneebar and steering wheel and airbag and all of that bologne. Im just really frustrated right now because like i said, it started and then shut down and restarted SEVERAL times. 

Coincidence that i stuck my head under the dash to check fuses RIGHT before it mysteriously stopped starting? Im not sure. I hope its a coincidence! Damn Cabby :banghead:


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

How about just pulling each fuse one at a time, and check them when you get a chance? Certainly can't hurt.
The other option would be to try and 'hot wire' the starter to see if it spins with direct power. Like...connect the starter solenoid power line to a positive(only for a couple of seconds) and see if the starter goes. Maybe the starter just went out.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Putting this annoying no-crank issue aside.........I started the car up saturday morning. Here are some of my observations. The car runs a hundred times smoother. Still idles a LITTLE bit rough, but i think that can be contributed to vacuum nonsense. 

1. Alternator is not charging. Main grounds have been replaced and the exciter circuit seems intact. I measured voltage at the blue wires connector on back of alternator. Wouldnt go above 12v at any RPM. 

2. Starter was really dragging. This was with the battery brand new, first start fully charged, so i know its the starter not just a weak battery. 

3. Theres certainly a valve tick. Whats weird is sometimes I didnt notice it until the car warmed up, othertimes it only made it when it was cold. Who knows......

4. WP has got to be weak. Stream into overflow still very weak. The replacement came so im not too worried about this. Its getting done. 

5. Timing belt seems to be tracking on the outside edge of the cam sprocket. Its surely not OFF the sprocket but its really " right there ", and I would like it to be centered. When i change the belt, how would i adjust the tracking? It was a nightmare on my 1.6 diesel to do this. 

6. At first, I checked the oil pressure in the console while car was fairly warm and it was reading very low. 1.5 bar maybe? not sure what that equates to. When i reved it naturally it jumped up a little. Then i did some reading, so i decided to shut the car down. I switched the two connectors on the sensor on the side of the head. waiting a little bit. restarted the car and now it was sitting at 3.5 bar maybe? Are the connectors specific to the gauge light / console pressure? or can i put either one on either connector on that sender? 

7. While the temp gauge worked when i originally went to look at the car, but the light was flashing. Now the light is NOT flashing, but the gauge in dash is dead. 
I guess my fat fingers messed something up here. lol......Im not really sure. 

8. While i pulled the shift cover off the center console to inspect the neutral safety switch contacts, I found some MORE wires that had been cut. What the heck was the PO doing to this damn car?!!! Have an issue............WHY NOT JUST CUT THE WIRES INSTEAD OF SOLVING THE PROBLEM?!!! Quick thinking Einstein....
I noticed these wires are going to this small little black thing. The black thing has a " cap " that i can pop off or leave on. Whats this things purpose? there are only two wires going to it, but the other side of the cut wires there are maybe 5-6 there. where were the rest going? 

9. Also popped up the back seat. Found that I had some company. Sheesh. my 84 rabbit was literally INFESTED when i got it. Cant i catch a break with these damn things???? 

10. I was fiddling with the idle adjustment screw. While it seemed to affect the idle A LITTLE differently, it didn't affect the idle much one way or another. id like to change that O-ring. Where is it? 

11. Noticed that the water pump pulley and crank pulley are dangerously close, and ALMOST overlapping each other. Why is this like this? I can only imagine this misalignment is going to cause belt shredding.

12. Oil temp gauge in the console is not working at all in any way. Doesnt even budge ? 

13. the Tach seems to be getting " hung up ". It gets stuck around 2k. If i rev it really hard it seems to dislodge itself and move up, then is very " bouncy" coming back down and seems to fall at reast near 2k. this only happened after i started it the second time. The first time i started it it was fine, and idling at about 850-1k

14. Theres a very metallic noise maybe a pulley while idling. If i go to " blip " the throttle quickly, it seems to hesitate alot. See the video. 

















I assume this ^ Is why the oil temp in the console is not working. Which sensor here is which? I have looked high and low, i CANNOT locate the loose wire anywhere for that upper sensor on the oil filter housing. I've looked under the car, in the harness. I dont know where it could have went!! What color is the wire?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> How about just pulling each fuse one at a time, and check them when you get a chance? Certainly can't hurt.
> The other option would be to try and 'hot wire' the starter to see if it spins with direct power. Like...connect the starter solenoid power line to a positive(only for a couple of seconds) and see if the starter goes. Maybe the starter just went out.


Yeah you are right i could try this approach and probably will. I just ruled the starter out as anytime ive ever had a starter go bad ive had SOMETHIGN happen upon turning the key to " start" whether it be a click, Clank, slight start but fail...something. This is literally nothing. All quiet on the western front.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*1. Alternator is not charging. Main grounds have been replaced and the exciter circuit seems intact. I measured voltage at the blue wires connector on back of alternator. Wouldnt go above 12v at any RPM. 
*
The blue exciter wire is not connected at the dash, or possibly the alternator. The wire runs off the little stud on the alternator, to the dash light.
*
2. Starter was really dragging. This was with the battery brand new, first start fully charged, so i know its the starter not just a weak battery. *

Clean the connections on the Starter, then in stall Molijnar's heat soak relay, www.cabby-info.com has a PDF
*
3. Theres certainly a valve tick. Whats weird is sometimes I didnt notice it until the car warmed up, othertimes it only made it when it was cold. Who knows......*

Put some SeaFoam or Marvel Mystery Oil in the oil and give it a chance to work about 200 miles prior to an oil change.
*
4. WP has got to be weak. Stream into overflow still very weak. The replacement came so im not too worried about this. Its getting done. *

FaQ's page 3 post 75 has a how do I change the water pump. I would also suggest a new T-stat Cover o-ring and T-Stat as well as a flush and back flush
*
5. Timing belt seems to be tracking on the outside edge of the cam sprocket. Its surely not OFF the sprocket but its really " right there ", and I would like it to be centered. When i change the belt, how would i adjust the tracking? It was a nightmare on my 1.6 diesel to do this. *

That is a Alignment of the Tensioner and the stud that it is bolted by. I would also suggest doing this and the passenger side mount as well at the same time you are doing the water pump.

*6. At first, I checked the oil pressure in the console while car was fairly warm and it was reading very low. 1.5 bar maybe? not sure what that equates to. When i reved it naturally it jumped up a little. Then i did some reading, so i decided to shut the car down. I switched the two connectors on the sensor on the side of the head. waiting a little bit. restarted the car and now it was sitting at 3.5 bar maybe? Are the connectors specific to the gauge light / console pressure? or can i put either one on either connector on that sender? * 

In your Picture that is a oil pressure switch, usually the low I thing, or could be high… The Pressure gauge is the can on the side of the head that controls the center console.


*
7. While the temp gauge worked when i originally went to look at the car, but the light was flashing. Now the light is NOT flashing, but the gauge in dash is dead. 
I guess my fat fingers messed something up here. lol......Im not really sure. * 

The water temp gauge is flaky, so I would also ask is the fuel gauge working. If both are out then it is the 10V stabilizer on the back of the instrument console. If it is just the water gauge see the FAQ's page 3 thread 75
*
8. While i pulled the shift cover off the center console to inspect the neutral safety switch contacts, I found some MORE wires that had been cut. What the heck was the PO doing to this damn car?!!! Have an issue............WHY NOT JUST CUT THE WIRES INSTEAD OF SOLVING THE PROBLEM?!!! Quick thinking Einstein....
I noticed these wires are going to this small little black thing. The black thing has a " cap " that i can pop off or leave on. Whats this things purpose? there are only two wires going to it, but the other side of the cut wires there are maybe 5-6 there. where were the rest going? *

That is probably the Shifter light to let you know which position the handle is in. You can go to a parts store and get a Strip LED light in any color and Get a 6 led strip, Cut it at the marks then tape it over the thing if your light is out.. You then have to mask the other 2 leds off by taping over them and use a small shield over the main led to limit the glow out side of your selection. You will position the middle LED in the center of the lamp holder (take the cap off and break the bulb. Then Tape over the other two (silver Foil Tape works good. I use a small piece of that same tape and poked a hole in it as the mask of the centered LED. Wire it to the Lamp, the Brown wire is ground.
*
9. Also popped up the back seat. Found that I had some company. Sheesh. my 84 rabbit was literally INFESTED when i got it. Cant i catch a break with these damn things????* 

No that is the price of Ownership, and is a Badge of Pride when it is running well.

*10. I was fiddling with the idle adjustment screw. While it seemed to affect the idle A LITTLE differently, it didn't affect the idle much one way or another. id like to change that O-ring. Where is it? *

OPPS you don't fiddle with the bypass screw, it is a 7mm brass bolt at the back of the throttle body. You count the number of turns to remove it, and take it to a home store and get a replacement o-ring it is on the screw itself.

*11. Noticed that the water pump pulley and crank pulley are dangerously close, and ALMOST overlapping each other. Why is this like this? I can only imagine this misalignment is going to cause belt shredding. *

That isn't the crank pulley that is the intermediate shaft, that drives the Distributor and the Oil pump. Or are you looking at the Power Steering pump to Water pump as it is a might close, but separate V belt driven.

*12. Oil temp gauge in the console is not working at all in any way. Doesnt even budge ? 
*
Bad Gauge on the side of the head see the Circled picture above, or the wires are on backwards.


*13. the Tach seems to be getting " hung up ". It gets stuck around 2k. If i rev it really hard it seems to dislodge itself and move up, then is very " bouncy" coming back down and seems to fall at reast near 2k. this only happened after i started it the second time. The first time i started it it was fine, and idling at about 850-1k*

Bad power, bad ground or bad tach flaky 10V stabilizer. The power for the tach is pin 14 of the large white connector, ground is pin2 In the Flaky water gauge fix FAQ's Page 3 thread 75 it tells you how to add ground, and plump the connector.

*14. Theres a very metallic noise maybe a pulley while idling. If i go to " blip " the throttle quickly, it seems to hesitate alot. See the video. *

Vacuum Leak, replace all the vacuum hoses, bad Valve cover Gasket…. and Pulley noise is usually a overly tight belt, bad tensioner on the timing belt or flat worn out belt.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks for the tips Brian! Im going to look into all of this hopefully tonight when i get done doing an axle and wheel bearing on my own little bunny. 

Anyhow. 

I believe the exciter wire is fine. I tested with the multimeter power at the blue wire terminal ON the alternator while car was running and saw only 12V i believe. If thats the output from the alternator wouldnt that right there mean its not charging and alt. is bad? 

Deff will be using an old for Relay as described. Makes all the sense in the world. Wont do this until i change the starter most likely.

Got a new Tstat cover and all required O-rings. 

As for the timing belt tracking. Are you telling me its adjusted by something having to do with the tensioner / stud? 


The pulley that is missaligned is the water pump and crank, i believe, it's not the power steering pump pulley as that pulley is missing from the car! I could be wrong, but isnt the intermediate pulley that runs the oil pump run by the timing belt??


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Picture of the throttlebody. top circle is the screw you never touch. It prevents the butterfly from getting 'stuck'. 
Bottom circle is the brass screw used for idle up/down and has o-rings on it that shrink causing air leak. 










In your last picture above of the oil flange..where you say you can't find the wire.
Look at the plastic bell shaped object with a dark green(?) wire in it, right behind the flange. Thats what plugs into the vacant wire plug on the oil flange.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Picture of the throttlebody. top circle is the screw you never touch. It prevents the butterfly from getting 'stuck'.
> Bottom circle is the brass screw used for idle up/down and has o-rings on it that shrink causing air leak.


Yep, thats the one i touched alright..... ( The idle adjustment that is ). Now, i can surely count turns to un-wind it but when i put it back in. being as i just hadddd to fiddle with it, how will i know when its in the right place? 

Also, Is the O-Ring going to need to be picked out of the throttle body? or should it be ON the screw once the screw comes out all the way? I have a metric O-ring kit thanks to HF so i can probably tackle this tonight.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The o-ring will come out with the brass screw.
As for how much to turn...when the car idle is where you want it..its in the right spot. 
Screw in = less air = slower idle.
Screw out = more air = faster idle.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> The o-ring will come out with the brass screw.
> As for how much to turn...when the car idle is where you want it..its in the right spot.
> Screw in = less air = slower idle.
> Screw out = more air = faster idle.


Easy Peasy. Thanks alot.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

theres a few words below the picture in post #123 about your oil flange missing wire...in case you didn't see it.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*I believe the exciter wire is fine. I tested with the multimeter power at the blue wire terminal ON the alternator while car was running and saw only 12V i believe. If thats the output from the alternator wouldnt that right there mean its not charging and alt. is bad? * 

At engine Start that has 12V on it from the battery, and it uses the Dash light. If you are seeing 12V there and your dash light doesn't extinguish at 1100 rpm, take your alternator off and have it tested.

That is actually an input signal to the Alternator to tell it to TURN ON.


*As for the timing belt tracking. Are you telling me its adjusted by something having to do with the tensioner / stud? *

If you have a bad motor mount it isn't unusual for tensioner stud to get bent screwing up the tracking a wee bit.
So check it for Square, if you have to jack the engine to the right to get the tensioner off, you have a bad mount.



*The pulley that is missaligned is the water pump and crank, i believe, it's not the power steering pump pulley as that pulley is missing from the car! I could be wrong, but isnt the intermediate pulley that runs the oil pump run by the timing belt??[/QUOTE]*
Yes the clearance is close I had to relook at it....  If the pulley is misaligned then is it possibly on wrong as you can put it on 180 out and the clearance becomes an issue.

Ground breaking a WP pulley off, and it is correctly mounted.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

briano1234 said:


> *12. Oil temp gauge in the console is not working at all in any way. Doesnt even budge ?
> *
> Bad Gauge on the side of the head see the Circled picture above, or the wires are on backwards.


That's not the temp gauge sender.

http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Sensors




























As for the missing connector for that 1.8 pressure sensor, what is that black connector sitting sort of behind it?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *I believe the exciter wire is fine. I tested with the multimeter power at the blue wire terminal ON the alternator while car was running and saw only 12V i believe. If thats the output from the alternator wouldnt that right there mean its not charging and alt. is bad? *
> 
> At engine Start that has 12V on it from the battery, and it uses the Dash light. If you are seeing 12V there and your dash light doesn't extinguish at 1100 rpm, take your alternator off and have it tested.
> 
> ...



Yes the clearance is close I had to relook at it....  If the pulley is misaligned then is it possibly on wrong as you can put it on 180 out and the clearance becomes an issue.

Ground breaking a WP pulley off, and it is correctly mounted.
[/QUOTE]

Okay you're telling me the water pump pulley can be installed backwards? or rotated incorrectly before bolted down? 

I'll have to look into this alternator issue deeper. Thanks brian.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> That's not the temp gauge sender.
> 
> http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Sensors
> 
> ...


Good breakdown on those sensors / senders. I'll probably just replace all of them. 

As for the connector thats sitting kind of behind it. If you are referring to the blue wire, with the big black boot........
that connector is connected to UNDERNEATH the distributor right there. Im a bit confused because if the one with the missing wire is the oil pressure sender, how am i getting a pressure reading of any sort?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

One pressure sensor is for the lower triple gauges. The other is to sound a warning if the oil pressure gets two low. The sound comes from behind the instrument cluster when that happens.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> One pressure sensor is for the lower triple gauges. The other is to sound a warning if the oil pressure gets two low. The sound comes from behind the instrument cluster when that happens.


Okay sounds over complicated for a simple system but hey, thats VW right! lol. 

Anyhow. I guess at this point i really just need to figure out the colors on the wire thats sapposed to go to that rear oil pressure switch so that i can try and track down the wire ( wherever it may be ) !


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay sounds over complicated for a simple system but hey, thats VW right! lol.
> 
> Anyhow. I guess at this point i really just need to figure out the colors on the wire thats sapposed to go to that rear oil pressure switch so that i can try and track down the wire ( wherever it may be ) !


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> [/B]
> 
> Okay you're telling me the water pump pulley can be installed backwards? or rotated incorrectly before bolted down?
> 
> I'll have to look into this alternator issue deeper. Thanks brian.


Yes you can put the pulley on backwards.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> As for the connector thats sitting kind of behind it. If you are referring to the blue wire, with the big black boot........
> that connector is connected to UNDERNEATH the distributor right there. Im a bit confused because if the one with the missing wire is the oil pressure sender, how am i getting a pressure reading of any sort?


It's _attached_ to the distributor?? :sly: I don't have a Digi Cabriolet, so ^that's confusing me too. 

As listed at http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Sensors and in the images above:
Oil temp sender is for the temp gauge in console.
1.8 oil pressure sender: Warns, with flashing light and buzzer, when oil pressure falls too low at higher (2000+) rpm
0.3 oil pressure sender: Warns, with a flashing light, when oil pressure falls to near zero *and* sends pressure reading to center console bar gauge

The 1.8 pressure sender should have a blue/black wire.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


>


Brian this is actually exactly what i was looking for the other night!!! I will put your little diagram to use for sure. However im referring to the " upper " sensor thats ontop of the filter flanges, the one closest to the engine. The wire that is supposed to go to it is literally AWOL on my car. I cant find it, dont know where it comes from, what color it is. blah blah blah .


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> It's _attached_ to the distributor?? :sly: I don't have a Digi Cabriolet, so ^that's confusing me too.
> 
> As listed at http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Sensors and in the images above:
> Oil temp sender is for the temp gauge in console.
> ...



Yeah it connects to a spade terminal on bottom of distributor lol. 

Still digging on the web for this one, Blue / black on your CIS car? I just found THIS picture on google and the wire going to that sensor 
appears to be yellow ? http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/corrado91/oilplugs.jpg

Anyone with a 91 can confirm perhaps?


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Still digging on the web for this one, Blue / black on your CIS car? I just found THIS picture on google and the wire going to that sensor
> appears to be yellow ? http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa284/corrado91/oilplugs.jpg
> 
> Anyone with a 91 can confirm perhaps?


That's a Corrado; different animal altogether. 

The wiring diagrams show a blue/black wire on all Cabriolets.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> That's a Corrado; different animal altogether.
> 
> The wiring diagrams show a blue/black wire on all Cabriolets.


Wait a second..............its a blue with BLACK striped wire. Now this has got me thinking.......what the heck IS that wire (blue and black with boot ) going under my distributor? the 3 spade connector for the distributor is on the opposite side. I swear i've pulled that spade connector off, and then plugged it back in. can someone confirm there is such a connector that exists under the dist. like that? im looking at pictures of new distributors and dont see it.


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## vangelis (Jan 25, 2015)

Derekxj said:


> So picking up the car this weekend, weather depending obviously. Want to order a bunch of stuff now and get it coming my way so I can FULLY tune this car up.
> It was running with a slight miss when i heard it run. Either way,It will now be in my posession and i will want to do things and take care of things the way i do with all of my vehicles. Here's what i got on the shopping list so far. This is a high mileage engine folks........anything else you all recommend changing right away? ( timing belt kit, water pump, and V belt will be changed all at once as a seperate order ).


Can you please share which store is that? what is the recommended top store you usually use?


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Wait a second..............its a blue with BLACK striped wire. Now this has got me thinking.......what the heck IS that wire (blue and black with boot ) going under my distributor? the 3 spade connector for the distributor is on the opposite side. I swear i've pulled that spade connector off, and then plugged it back in. can someone confirm there is such a connector that exists under the dist. like that? im looking at pictures of new distributors and dont see it.


And that's just it. Some distributors do have a spade connector, but it's for a ground connection (my Digi Vanagon has one that isn't used). So, if that is in fact a blue/black wire (hard to tell in the photo), pull it off the distributor and connect it to the oil pressure sender. :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

vangelis said:


> Can you please share which store is that? what is the recommended top store you usually use?


I use a variety of sites. Always compare prices with shipping between them all. 

Of my top choices are rockauto.com and germanautoparts.com

I'll then compare prices from those two with each other, and then take the part numbers and plug them into Amazon, and ebay. 

Sometimes its cheaper to use my friends account at the parts stores to get the cheapest price locally......but most times things are cheaper online.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> And that's just it. Some distributors do have a spade connector, but it's for a ground connection (my Digi Vanagon has one that isn't used). So, if that is in fact a blue/black wire (hard to tell in the photo), pull it off the distributor and connect it to the oil pressure sender. :thumbup:


Sheesh why in hecks name was this poor car SO bastardized ? lol. What did IT ever do wrong? ( im sure lots of things haha ) , but still! It drives me nuts!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Sheesh why in hecks name was this poor car SO bastardized ? lol. What did IT ever do wrong? ( im sure lots of things haha ) , but still! It drives me nuts!


It's not the car, it's the owners. It's lucky its now in good hands. :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> It's not the car, it's the owners. It's lucky its now in good hands. :thumbup:


Yeah you are right about that.............I hope!!!! Im sure the owner before the girl i got it from, who mangled everything about this car, 
is the same one who stuck stickers all over the dashboard that said " hooligans" ( probably some Lame-o long island teen car club ), painted the ebrake 
cover neon green, and installed the head unit so that it fell ontop of the AC controls. Removed the pulley on the seized PS pump, disconnected the AC lines from 
the compressor..........oh and plastidipped over a paint job that was still in fairly good condition.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

I'll take a pic of my 91 oil flange shortly but I agree there's a spare ground lug under the distributor. The way you can tell that wire goes to the oil filter flange is the shape of the plastic bell fits perfectly onto the top of the oil pressure sensor.
The purpose of that bell is to keep oil from flowing into that connection, should a leak happen somewhere. There is no reason for a cover if it actually did go to the bottom of the distributor.

I've had that sensor leak on one of my cars...and the way you know the sensor is bad is that 'bell' becomes full of oil. 

Here's a pic of my oil flange. Pic was taken from the passenger side facing to the drivers side. Notice slightly to the left of the dip stick..where the rubber boot is. 









Oh...and I have a used power steering pump I don't need...


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

That round steel wrap cover over the dizzy is to prevent RADIO buz and I suspect Water spray to prevent Carbon tracking... I never liked it and removed it.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

So many posts so not sure if you got your alternator sorted out but with the engine off and key on if you ground the blue exciter wire the light should go on. Take the ground away and the light goes out. If the light is not coming on when grounded you have a exciter wire break or cluster problem especially if your light is out when running and voltage is still below 12. If the light is on with the key on, engine off whether the wire is connected or not your exciter wire is finding ground.

If the light is staying on with the engine running(and it DOES go out when disconnected) I would double check the connections between the battery and alternator post. If they are good remove the regulator from the alternator(black and white plastic thing with two flathead screws) and look at the brushes(spring loaded carbon things that ride on the shaft). They wear down and when they do the alternator quits charging. Back in the day when these and mk2s were common on the street and in the junkyard, if a yard had 10 of these cars with the alternator in it chances are the regulator was gone from all of them.

If all that looks fine then have the alternator load tested at an electric shop preferably


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> I'll take a pic of my 91 oil flange shortly but I agree there's a spare ground lug under the distributor. The way you can tell that wire goes to the oil filter flange is the shape of the plastic bell fits perfectly onto the top of the oil pressure sensor.
> The purpose of that bell is to keep oil from flowing into that connection, should a leak happen somewhere. There is no reason for a cover if it actually did go to the bottom of the distributor.
> 
> I've had that sensor leak on one of my cars...and the way you know the sensor is bad is that 'bell' becomes full of oil.
> ...


Thanks EXACTLY what i was looking for! Awesome information about the " bell " also. It was a dead ringer! ( get it get it ? ) :thumbdown: lol. 

Thats the plug for sure!!!! I love how someone would disconnect it from the temp sender and connect it to the side of the distributor.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That round steel wrap cover over the dizzy is to prevent RADIO buz and I suspect Water spray to prevent Carbon tracking... I never liked it and removed it.


Would there be a benefit in removing it?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> So many posts so not sure if you got your alternator sorted out but with the engine off and key on if you ground the blue exciter wire the light should go on. Take the ground away and the light goes out. If the light is not coming on when grounded you have a exciter wire break or cluster problem especially if your light is out when running and voltage is still below 12. If the light is on with the key on, engine off whether the wire is connected or not your exciter wire is finding ground.
> 
> If the light is staying on with the engine running(and it DOES go out when disconnected) I would double check the connections between the battery and alternator post. If they are good remove the regulator from the alternator(black and white plastic thing with two flathead screws) and look at the brushes(spring loaded carbon things that ride on the shaft). They wear down and when they do the alternator quits charging. Back in the day when these and mk2s were common on the street and in the junkyard, if a yard had 10 of these cars with the alternator in it chances are the regulator was gone from all of them.
> 
> If all that looks fine then have the alternator load tested at an electric shop preferably



I must thank you for posting such thorough and clear detailed info!! Last night i went to work on the car, but found myself really discouraged about the entire non start issue and working on the car in general being as my own Rabbit is having issues at the moment with a bad wheel bearing, or axle or Something and being 0 degrees or below out......its too cold to work on it....It kind of put a damper on me really wanting to diagnose the no start issue which im actually losing sleep over. 

Does anybody know of a way ( other than cutting into factory wires ), that i can bypass that big interlock relay? \
Can the car not starting be related to the airbag lights being on? Perhaps thats why the PO cut those two wires behind my cluster?? 

What i did do last night was crawl under the car and realize A. the starter is REALLY buried. and B. the girl I bought it off of wasnt lying, the starter has been replaced and was in fact brand new. Could the bad battery it had have killed the solenoid on it and this is why its not starting? 

After pacing back and forth infront of the car like a maniac a few times, i decided to go back to that issue another night and regroup. I then followed your procedure to sort out the exciter circuit. I disconnected the blue wire from alt. Grounded it, turned key. Light in dash was on solid. Disconnected from ground, light went off. I suppose this proves that circuit to be functional. Then i proceeded to pull off the regulator. Not really sure how long these brushes are MEANT to be, so i cant really speak to how worn they are. Perhaps someone elses trained eyes can? 

I also noticed that theres a seperate white connector on the back of this alternator. Is it in anyway possible that on this obviously not OEM alternator.....the exciter must connect in THAT spot, not the one where it currently was?


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Those brushes look good.. The white terminal is not used on your car. That alternator case is used in several applications, and that white terminal is used on deisels for a tach lead. Its referred to as the "W" connection.

Your test of the exciter circuit has me satisfied that the problem isnt in the exciter wiring. The brushes look good. If your lead from the battery to the alternator is good, if the alternator was good it would be charging.
Disconnect the main power lead from the alternator and check the resistance from the ring terminal there to the positive battery post.. It should be really low(like less than an ohm IIRC)..

If that is good, pop off the alternator and take it to get load checked.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

The exciter wire (little blue one) is attached to the little stud to the right of the power lead to the battery. You have a nut on yours.

Hear is a photo of the Alternator with the big lead and little blue lead removed for replacement of a deceased alternator.
The little blue wire can be seen poking out from below.



So was your exciter wire properly connected to the alternator?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The exciter wire (little blue one) is attached to the little stud to the right of the power lead to the battery. You have a nut on yours.
> 
> Hear is a photo of the Alternator with the big lead and little blue lead removed for replacement of a deceased alternator.
> The little blue wire can be seen poking out from below.
> ...


Yes it was. Not when i originally picked the car up. The connector was ON the alternator and the wire was snapped out of the connector. I repaired all that and re-attached it as it should be before even starting the car again. Thats probably what killed the battery and alternator., and im thinking the bad battery then killed the starter or solenoid? Im not sure. This no start is driving me nuts. 

Can the airbag fault codes be preventing the starter from engaging?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

No start how? No crank, or no run... Different issues.....

No Run could be that you have zapped the Fuel pump relay, do you hear the pumps prime for 4 seconds at start? This will eliminate that.

Have you statically timed it? Per Ron's Tutorial 
Not only does this work, but checks out your Hall Circuitry to a point.
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/cabby/static-digi.html


No Crank Hot or Cold see this:
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32204-90-93-Automatic-No-Crank-Hot-or-Cold

And you may want to install the heat soak relay from Cabby-info.com.....


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Can the airbag fault codes be preventing the starter from engaging?


Yes, but Ron has a by-pass, for that issue:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2026650

You will have to cut and paste the pic's in a new window.
Basically you Tie 2 wires together to eliminate the Air Bag controller and turn off the lights.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> No start how? No crank, or no run... Different issues..... *no crank, car cranked and ran fine moments before it stopped. now days later, hasnt since.*
> No Run could be that you have zapped the Fuel pump relay, do you hear the pumps prime for 4 seconds at start? This will eliminate that.
> 
> Have you statically timed it? Per Ron's Tutorial
> ...


Plan on installing the heat soak relay as well!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

briano1234 said:


> Yes, but Ron has a by-pass, for that issue:
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2026650
> 
> You will have to cut and paste the pic's in a new window.
> Basically you Tie 2 wires together to eliminate the Air Bag controller and turn off the lights.


Or you can just go here http://www.cabby-info.com/airbag.htm#Disabling and/or here http://reflectionsandshadows.com/air-bags/ . :wave:

However, lots of Cabriolets are running around the USA with airbag lights on and have no problem starting, so I would tend to think that's not the problem... but with this particular car, anything's possible.

This may have been asked/answered: Have you tried jumping the starter?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Or you can just go here http://www.cabby-info.com/airbag.htm#Disabling and/or here http://reflectionsandshadows.com/air-bags/ . :wave:
> 
> However, lots of Cabriolets are running around the USA with airbag lights on and have no problem starting, so I would tend to think that's not the problem... but with this particular car, anything's possible.
> 
> This may have been asked/answered: Have you tried jumping the starter?


Lol " with this car anythings possible " ........You said it!!! 

Anyhow. I have not tried jumping the starter just yet. I started to get under there last night before realizing that oh wait.....i dont have jack stands. and didnt exactly want an imprint of the bellhousing / oil pan in my chest so i said to heck with it. I may try that out tonight......

I did get under there enough to realize the starter is just about brand new. doesnt mean its good but its new for what its worth. I couldnt even see
the connections on it to be honest, i'll have to get the car up higher......and get it on stands so i can have a good look and try to jump out the solenoid......and hopefully not arc weld anything together hitting the wrong wires.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

kamzcab86 said:


> Or you can just go here http://www.cabby-info.com/airbag.htm#Disabling and/or here http://reflectionsandshadows.com/air-bags/ . :wave:
> 
> However, lots of Cabriolets are running around the USA with airbag lights on and have no problem starting, so I would tend to think that's not the problem... but with this particular car, anything's possible.
> 
> This may have been asked/answered: Have you tried jumping the starter?


The year suggests that the possible issue is the relay for the no-crank hot or cold but yes throwing it in Neutral and jumpering the starter solenoid via the wire would tell in a minute




And if you need it....
*How to remove your Automatic Transmission Starter..*

But if the starter don't spin.... If it does then look for those two previous threads on No Crank hot or cold, and the air bag bypass.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks Brian. As usual, you're onto something! lol. 

So last night I was with a friend whos a great mechanic, doing a quick sidejob and in explaining to him the issue he said to me. " Are you sure the engine didnt seize up?.....It's happened to me in a similar fashion, and stranger things have happend " THANKS A-Hole now i need to go put a socket to the crank so i can sleep tonight! lmao! :thumbup: 

With that. I drove my rabbit which i shouldnt be driving because the wheel bearing is WIPED......to the cabby. and did the following. 

1. Spun the crank. Shes not locked up. :thumbup::beer: 

2. Open beer.

3. Crawled wayyyyyy under there to see the starter. then stuck my face way in the engine to see the solenoid. Couldnt tell what wire was which so i pulled off the one
that brian has called the " starter solenoid wire. " It has that crappy yellow plastic sheathing on it at some points, and as far as i can tell eventually terminates at the batt.

4. Took the powerprobe, and hit that terminal with 12 volts. Sure enough........ *The starter cranked*

Once i realized the starter was functioning.........I performed the following tests with my meter before finishing the beer and calling it a night. Will underline the results of each. all the while doing these tests, positive terminals disconnected. Left the ground disconnected.

1. Pulled that connector up into the underhood where i could reach it. Positive into the connector, and ground to the battery. 
Measured .02v while turning the key to the crank position

2. checked continuity between the lug for the positive terminal which i think included the one this wire ended with, and the connector. I had 1.3 ohms.

3. This one is weird to me, unless theres a relay in line that switches negative maybe? I checked continuity ( with the buzzer) between the connector and the negative
batt terminal. Nothing. Then did the same between the connector and the *positive* battery terminal, which had nothing connected to it. and got continuity.
how the heck would this happen??????


I hope my findings last night lead me a little bit closer to pin pointing the problem!


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

With the car in this no start state...do the dashboard lights come on, with key on?
Do you hear the fuel pump spin for a few seconds then quit?
When you turn key to start position...do any of the dash lights dim even slightly?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> With the car in this no start state...do the dashboard lights come on, with key on?
> Do you hear the fuel pump spin for a few seconds then quit?
> When you turn key to start position...do any of the dash lights dim even slightly?


Not sure about the dimming. With the key on yes dash lights come on. Well...the airbag lights. Batt. light for a second....and i forget what else. 
The fuel pump spins for a few seconds then quits with key into on position. and when i try and crank i hear it spin again for a second. 

As for the dimming, im not positive but i dont seem to recall that being the case.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Have you tried putting the shifter into neutral...and cranking it?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Have you tried putting the shifter into neutral...and cranking it?


Yeah, this led me to the same result as trying in park. 
Do those tests that I did lead me to any clues as to the problem?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Ok, so the starter spins.

Then you are left with 4 possibles.

1. Ignition switch is bad.
2. The starter interlock is gone.
3. The air bag controller is wacked.
4. You knocked the relay off the back of the knee bar.

1. Do Ron's air bag delete.
If that doesn't fix it.
2. Do the By-pass that I mentioned. 

Both 1. and 2. require minimum effort and 2 in-line splices.

If those don't get power to your Starter then you probably have a bad ignition switch.

The Starter wire comes from the relay on the Back side of the Knee bar. See my thread on no start hot or cold.
Ron's Bypass is the same thing as if the air bag connector that is held in place on the fuse box is loose disconnected, then the starter won't engage either.

Ron's powers the Relay that you bypass with my fix.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Ok, so the starter spins.
> 
> Then you are left with 4 possibles.
> 
> ...


I know the relays are in place because i looked up there and wiggled them / felt them to make sure they were seated. 

Now this " solenoid " wire, looks like junk. I hate the connector, theres some yellow sheathing all over the wire. theres a random piece that looks like a 
" connector" about halfway up to the battery. Whats that about? Its stock i assume as i've seen it on other cars. Can i take this entire wire out and re-do 
it like i have some of the others thus far ?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

briano1234 said:


> Ok, so the starter spins.
> 
> Then you are left with 4 possibles.
> 
> ...


----------



## WhtRabbit85 (Jan 29, 2015)

briano1234 said:


> Ok, so the starter spins.
> 
> Ignition switch is bad.


Yeah, same issue was up with my car. Two differences exist in this situation: 1) you have the automatic version, whereas mine is a manual, and both the starter and ignition switch were easy to replace, of course, I just replaced the whole steering lock column (which, in my case, came with a newer ignition switch module from a '92 already installed into the column for $20); and, 2) you have a 1991 with the driver airbag, AFAIK, it should be a piece of cake to disable the airbag module and take the airbag portion of the steering wheel off (bolts are on the backside of the steering wheel) to get to the 24mm bolt holding the steering wheel and stalks to the steering column, after that, it's a matter of disassembling the steering column cover (four screws on bottom side) and getting to that pesky (I used metric hex keys) 5mm hex bolt holding all that crap together. Oh, yeah, don't forget to unscrew the stalks off the steering column (three flathead bolts) and disconnect the stalks and ignition switch terminals, the hard part is actually getting the steering lock column off the column itself, to do this, simply place the key in the ignition, and turn it to the "Run" or "On" position, and the steering lock should disable, allowing you to make the removal of the lock column easier. Once you get the column off, just pop off the old switch and put the new one in, grab a :beer: and you should be good to go after the reinstall. :thumbup:


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Had a strange thought...would this help any?

I have one of those remote start wire/clip/switch devices. You use it when you want to crank the engine over without sitting in the car seat.

So if the remote start switch was hooked to the starter, ignition turned on, and hit the remote start switch...and the car starts.

Does that help diagnose anything?


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## WhtRabbit85 (Jan 29, 2015)

briano1234 said:


> No start how? No crank, or no run... Different issues.....
> 
> No Run could be that you have zapped the Fuel pump relay, do you hear the pumps prime for 4 seconds at start? This will eliminate that.


I know for a fact mine is shot, mine only primes after you turn the starter once. Then (the way my ignition switch is set up) I have to turn the key back to the "Lock" position and then try it again. When it did run, it started smoking near that area, so yeah, it's about that time.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> The fuel pump spins for a few seconds then quits with key into on position. and when i try and crank i hear it spin again for a second.


lines are pressutizing


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

WhtRabbit85 said:


> Yeah, same issue was up with my car. Two differences exist in this situation: 1) you have the automatic version, whereas mine is a manual, and both the starter and ignition switch were easy to replace, of course, I just replaced the whole steering lock column (which, in my case, came with a newer ignition switch module from a '92 already installed into the column for $20); and, 2) you have a 1991 with the driver airbag, AFAIK, it should be a piece of cake to disable the airbag module and take the airbag portion of the steering wheel off (bolts are on the backside of the steering wheel) to get to the 24mm bolt holding the steering wheel and stalks to the steering column, after that, it's a matter of disassembling the steering column cover (four screws on bottom side) and getting to that pesky (I used metric hex keys) 5mm hex bolt holding all that crap together. Oh, yeah, don't forget to unscrew the stalks off the steering column (three flathead bolts) and disconnect the stalks and ignition switch terminals, the hard part is actually getting the steering lock column off the column itself, to do this, simply place the key in the ignition, and turn it to the "Run" or "On" position, and the steering lock should disable, allowing you to make the removal of the lock column easier. Once you get the column off, just pop off the old switch and put the new one in, grab a :beer: and you should be good to go after the reinstall. :thumbup:


Thanks for the detailed info. Doesnt seem too too bad. Im going to resort to the ignition switch last, as thats last in electrical lineup. 
You did get one thing wrong though..............by the time i've done all of that ive already grabbed atleast one or two :beer:. :laugh:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> lines are pressutizing


Right i figured this. and this is normal correct? Sheesh how i dislike the german way of schematic's, and my lack of patience to read them. 
I really need to get into the Bentley and teach myself to read them properly like a pro.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Right i figured this. and this is normal correct? Sheesh how i dislike the german way of schematic's, and my lack of patience to read them.
> I really need to get into the Bentley and teach myself to read them properly like a pro.


Trust me, I think I am a pro reading schematics, but occasionally I get buggered......

See the FAQ link, there is a Electrical Primer there.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> I really need to get into the Bentley and teach myself to read them properly like a pro.


Pages 15-16: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ElectricalSystem.pdf


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks for the links Gents!! Going to hit the books hopefully one day soon in my downtime.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

briano1234 said:


> Trust me, I think I am a pro reading schematics, but occasionally I get buggered......
> 
> See the FAQ link, there is a Electrical Primer there.





kamzcab86 said:


> Pages 15-16: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ElectricalSystem.pdf






Derekxj said:


> Thanks for the links Gents!! Going to hit the books hopefully one day soon in my downtime.


That is only applicable to one of us being thanked...... You better re-phrase that thank you....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That is only applicable to one of us being thanked...... You better re-phrase that thank you....


Sorry Kamz! Thank you laddddieesssss anddd genttlleeeemannn :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

The results are in. 

Last night i dropped the knee-bar. Once i un-cramped my fingers and hands from reaching in those corners with tools to get to the nuts and bolts. I wish i could completely take the kneebar out for now, but its attached by the window switch wiring and another semi-thick wrapped harness that goes probably to the ashtray if i had to guess. The funny part is now i need it out because i found probably about a 1/4 pound of that JB weld putty caked on all over one of the AC fittings at the end of a pipe. not sure what or where it goes.....need to investigate further but this is probably why the compressor was disconnected, or part of the reason. I want to fix it. It will also be alot easier to do the heater core with it out. 

ANYWAY. 

Completed the bypass test.....initially using a set of " stab through the wire" jumpers. that didnt work. i was ABOUT to start taking the steering wheel off when i thought. wait. Maybe theres other stuff between the two portions and i need to physically cut it......So i did 
and BAM. Car cranked over. So, the relay is bad!! Anybody know the cheapest place to find a replacement? I dont want anyone to have the accidental possibility of starting this car in drive or anything like that. especially my GF.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> The results are in.
> 
> Last night i dropped the knee-bar. Once i un-cramped my fingers and hands from reaching in those corners with tools to get to the nuts and bolts. I wish i could completely take the kneebar out for now, but its attached by the window switch wiring and another semi-thick wrapped harness that goes probably to the ashtray if i had to guess. The funny part is now i need it out because i found probably about a 1/4 pound of that JB weld putty caked on all over one of the AC fittings at the end of a pipe. not sure what or where it goes.....need to investigate further but this is probably why the compressor was disconnected, or part of the reason. I want to fix it. It will also be alot easier to do the heater core with it out.
> 
> ...


The Relay was still available a the dealers about 58-72 dollars depending on the dealership, but I see it is NLA now.

The by-pass works and I have applied it to my Green one years ago, when my daughter was using it as a daily Driver (yep she was about 19, Blond), now my older Daughter drives it as she wrecked her car (She is blond also).. They haven't had any issues as I drilled it into there heads that it only starts in PARK, and to place the parking brake on.

So you can teach them.... Blonds that is. Oh wait, my baby daughter dyed her hair brunette, her husband called it "Artificial Intelligence.".... 


Now that putty wrapped on the expansion valve is normal. It is probably hardened over the years. 


Is what both of mine look like, I think it was to prevent Icing...and frost drip.

You are right on the Knee bar. You have to remove the Window switches and Ash Tray. You have to gently pry them out and push the wires back out of the holes.

The Ash Tray pry's out from the sides, using a flat blade screw driver. You have to use all 4 edges some


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

While I proceed to weed out these aweful electrical problems before continuing onto the next stage of mechanical work on the engine, I would like to replace as many of the vacuum lines as possible as the car, quite honestly has 0 pickup, and a severe hesitation when i blip the throttle. My little 1.6 diesel in my rabbit has 3x the amount of pickup when revving. I hope this Old 1.8 isnt too far gone / worn out to use as a driver. I'd be really upset if i had to swing an engine after all of this. Not to mention, I want it original and inexpensive as possible, and this 1.8 digifant engine seems hard to find.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The Relay was still available a the dealers about 58-72 dollars depending on the dealership, but I see it is NLA now.
> 
> The by-pass works and I have applied it to my Green one years ago, when my daughter was using it as a daily Driver (yep she was about 19, Blond), now my older Daughter drives it as she wrecked her car (She is blond also).. They haven't had any issues as I drilled it into there heads that it only starts in PARK, and to place the parking brake on.
> 
> ...


This is good news, i was afraid the putty was another half-A$$ed fix by the PO. So, i guess with that said i'll just bypass it. At the end of the day though, its " only " a relay. My friend was trying to help me diagnose it last night and when he looked at it said oh, this is a double pole double throw. thats why it has the extra 4 smaller pins on the outside. Shouldnt another relay, of the same breed do the job? THats funny that you specifically made it a point to say they are blonde lol.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> This is good news, i was afraid the putty was another half-A$$ed fix by the PO. So, i guess with that said i'll just bypass it. At the end of the day though, its " only " a relay. My friend was trying to help me diagnose it last night and when he looked at it said oh, this is a double pole double throw. thats why it has the extra 4 smaller pins on the outside. Shouldnt another relay, of the same breed do the job? THats funny that you specifically made it a point to say they are blonde lol.


Hey, I married a Blond, have 3 Blond Children, and one Brunette. I don't know where she got the Brunette from as I have Flaming Ginger/White hair and The wife is blond........ But I do think she has blond genes....

No, It is a partial Solid State relay that uses the back up light power to validate that the car is in Park,,,,,,, 
IT is a "Special" relay.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Hey, I married a Blond, have 3 Blond Children, and one Brunette. I don't know where she got the Brunette from as I have Flaming Ginger/White hair and The wife is blond........ But I do think she has blond genes....
> 
> No, It is a partial Solid State relay that uses the back up light power to validate that the car is in Park,,,,,,,
> IT is a "Special" relay.


Okay to heck with that then! lol. thats really funny by the way. The mailman. Its always the mailman


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Alright gents. Long time no post....not really, but this thread's been getting me a massive amount of support, and this week I had to take a break from the car all together due to my own Rabbit being down, being broke, yada yada yada. Enough of the B*tching. 

The last things i did on the car were the following. 

1. Yanked out the dr. side seat. 
2. Hooked up temperature sensor wire that WAS hooked to the distributor to the sensor it was sapposed to be on! 
3. Took the dremel to the heater box in the ghetto-fab shortcut / " god please dont make me rip this dashboard out " heater core replacement effort

I cut right along the two lines, as i was told and shown from the interwebs. I noticed there was some weird double piece of plastic in there along 
sides of the core. Had to make a little bit of a mess out of it. Prying with a flathead and the brutal cold, resulted in just blasting broken pieces
right off of the side of the heater box in a not so nice fashion. Looks like i will be using brian's method with a cover of sorts..... 
My problem now is that, the core is ALL the way in and i mean, i've pushed and pushed hard. ( also probably crushed all of the top and bottom fins in the process due to the size of the hole i was working with. It seems the cap is sticking out just a TINY TINY bit. enough that i think when i fit a cover over it it might unfortunately bow a little bit. Not sure why this is happening. 


Additionally, in hanging out in the back of the engine by the starter, i noticed that theres alot of oil on the back of the engine. I also notice after i filled the coolant tank, the level keeps going down. coolants leaking somewhere. and something else is leaking oil. i doubt the valve cover would be leaking down THAT far. Im begging to really ask myself. I need to do the timing belt and water pump anyway............
*Should i just replace the damn headgasket?????* 

Its a job i REALLY dont want to do, because i know it will open a huge can of worms and a couple hundred bucks to deck mill the head isnt really in my budget persay, but again.............I do NOT want to say to my girlfriend. " surprise!!! hunni! heres an unreliable car that leaks everywhere! Enjoy!! " What do you guys think i should do? I really think it may be the head leaking externally....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

In addition the coolant temp gauge in the dash isnt working at all. I read somewhere about brian saying to put a 9V battery to it. 
.....difficult to do by myself but i think i did that successfully and dont think the gauge moved. onto cabby info i go!


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

On the front of the motor, theres a plastic water outlet. It has a blue sensor and a black sensor on it. Make sure the wires are attached to both sensors. It also is a big source of coolant leak as it deforms under heat and does not seal. The blue is a coolant sensor for the computer. the black one is for the dash display. Head gasket? Find where the water is going first for sure. Drain the oil and check the color. Black/brown = no water in oil. Milky=replace head gasket. There also is a rubber glove test you can use to verify head gasket failure. Search, you'll find it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> On the front of the motor, theres a plastic water outlet. It has a blue sensor and a black sensor on it. Make sure the wires are attached to both sensors. It also is a big source of coolant leak as it deforms under heat and does not seal. The blue is a coolant sensor for the computer. the black one is for the dash display. Head gasket? Find where the water is going first for sure. Drain the oil and check the color. Black/brown = no water in oil. Milky=replace head gasket. There also is a rubber glove test you can use to verify head gasket failure. Search, you'll find it.


Thanks for the info on the sensors. Im about to order and replace the both of them along with new o-rings. 

There isnt a coolant leak there. the coolant leak is somewhere on the rear of the engine. I currently cant degrease it to further track leaks. 
Did the oil change. if oil was milky i would have had the head off the car already. I know what the milky oil can do to piston rings.....and its not good! My Rabbit diesel needed a headgasket as it was leaking BADLY externally only. No water in oil and no oil in the water. The gasket was shot. System did not over pressurize either. Perhaps the cabby's cooling system is a bit different. I'll try the rubber glove test as soon as i can start it again.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> In addition the coolant temp gauge in the dash isnt working at all. I read somewhere about brian saying to put a 9V battery to it.
> .....difficult to do by myself but i think i did that successfully and dont think the gauge moved. onto cabby info i go!


If you place the 9v DC battery on the black sensor and the gauge doesn't move, then bad gauge.
Page 3 of the FAQ's thread 75 has the answers that you seek Patawon.

For the Coolant leak at the Rear of the engine. Only a few things that I can thing of.

Driver side rear of the strut tower on the ground.
Bad Plastic water outlet head.
Bad hose to the heater valve, or bad heater valve.
Bad Coolant Res, Bad Hose going to it.
Bad Plastic Barbed Hose connection Joining the lower Heater core hose, and the steel hose.

Passenger side middle of the Front floor boards, Bad Heater core.

Passenger side front of the strut tower, bad water pump.

Middle of the engine front.
Bad Radiator hoses, including the res return.
Bad T-stat cover, sure wish they would re-make the metal ones for you.
Bad Water outlet flange (blue and black sensors are there.
Bad Water Pump hose to steel pipe.
Bad Radiator.

If you are using the old 50/50 green coolant, then if you can buy a UV penlight, (they sell them in the a/c sections). At Dusk, shine it on every water connection,, If it is leaking it should shine and glow.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> If you place the 9v DC battery on the black sensor and the gauge doesn't move, then bad gauge.
> Page 3 of the FAQ's thread 75 has the answers that you seek Patawon.
> 
> For the Coolant leak at the Rear of the engine. Only a few things that I can thing of.
> ...


Good info. Going to check all of these with a UV light this weekend. Never thought of that! Can just shut the lights in the garage and go to town with the light. 

As for the gauge however. If the gauge IS bad.........should i replace the entire cluster? I had that issue with the tach seeming to get " caught" at certain RPMS and needing a hard hit of the throttle to move it.
Almost seemed like the needle was catching something. Not sure if this issue is electrical, or mechanical to the gauge itself. Its making me want to just replace the entire cluster.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Good info. Going to check all of these with a UV light this weekend. Never thought of that! Can just shut the lights in the garage and go to town with the light.
> 
> As for the gauge however. If the gauge IS bad.........should i replace the entire cluster? I had that issue with the tach seeming to get " caught" at certain RPMS and needing a hard hit of the throttle to move it.
> Almost seemed like the needle was catching something. Not sure if this issue is electrical, or mechanical to the gauge itself. Its making me want to just replace the entire cluster.


See the faq's Jack. Under the electrical section is a link to repairing your flaky water gauge and fixing your main connector. I know I've had this issue.

Don't need a cluster just fix the one you've got


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> See the faq's Jack. Under the electrical section is a link to repairing your flaky water gauge and fixing your main connector. I know I've had this issue.
> 
> Don't need a cluster just fix the one you've got



Will do i've been reading them alot actually. Excellent writeup on the water temp gauge. You've got alot of knowledge in that dome! 
Have you ever seen the issue with the sporadic tach?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Will do i've been reading them alot actually. Excellent writeup on the water temp gauge. You've got alot of knowledge in that dome!
> Have you ever seen the issue with the sporadic tach?


Bad 10V stabilizer, iffy connections on the Tach back, bad connections on the cluster, bad grounds and bad tach.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Bad 10V stabilizer, iffy connections on the Tach back, bad connections on the cluster, bad grounds and bad tach.


Awesome. It seems like the 10V stabilizer goes bad often or goes on the fritz. tomorrow morning maybe tonight if i finish my rabbit im going to go over to the garage and use your directional i found to test that stabilizer.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Awesome. It seems like the 10V stabilizer goes bad often or goes on the fritz. tomorrow morning maybe tonight if i finish my rabbit im going to go over to the garage and use your directional i found to test that stabilizer.


It doesn't go bad that often, but I have seen it cause the Tach to read low, and intermittent. It is best to measure it in the car with Key on, as that is about all you can do to test it.
They are cheaper at Mouser.com so if you are going to order them order 5 or so as the shipping will be the same. I just saved you a Ton of monies if you order it from anywhere else.

If it is dead then your Fuel Gauge and Water Gauge won't work.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> It doesn't go bad that often, but I have seen it cause the Tach to read low, and intermittent. It is best to measure it in the car with Key on, as that is about all you can do to test it.
> They are cheaper at Mouser.com so if you are going to order them order 5 or so as the shipping will be the same. I just saved you a Ton of monies if you order it from anywhere else.
> 
> If it is dead then your Fuel Gauge and Water Gauge won't work.


Whats weird is............the tach works....but really goofy. water gauge doesnt work.so im ALMOST at a bad part....but wait.
the fuel gauge works. oh welll. lol. I will test it anyway! Thankyou


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Just a little update. 

Pulled cluster out. Applied 9v to the temp gauge. Nothing. 
removed gauge from cluster following brians specific directions :thumbup: 
At a certain step he says " test gauge, does it move" .or something liek this, but then it jumps into further taking it apart.
What happens IF at that point it moves????? This is what happen to me. Then i put it back in the cluster. Test it again. NOTHING. 

Take it out again. Test it........it works, but now its working a little bit less ( yes i still had over 8v coming from battery) . Sooo I just popped the rivets 
and will be doing the soldering fix he describes and hopefully i dont mess it up! Also ordered a new 10V stabilizer......

Oh, and also crawled under the car, and noticed that coolant seems to be dripping off of the bottom, edge of the bellhousing on the transmission. ugh! 


Oh, and spent most of the weekend working on MY car for once. :beer::beer: I miss working on the diesel! 
Was fixing ........ THIS ! 



...The hub was literally frozen / seized into the inside of the brake rotor. Had to press it out. Axle joint was completely wasted. Took me most of the day saturday. :banghead:


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Just a little update.
> 
> Pulled cluster out. Applied 9v to the temp gauge. Nothing.
> removed gauge from cluster following brians specific directions :thumbup:
> ...


If the Meter works out side of the cluster, and stay correct when you leave the battery on it for a few minutes, then the Gauge is good. 

If you put it back in and try to test it and the battery can't power the meter, are you hitting the connectors on the end and not the middle? 

The 10V stabilizer can be the issue.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*Oh, and also crawled under the car, and noticed that coolant seems to be dripping off of the bottom, edge of the bellhousing on the transmission. ugh! *

that could be one of the following.

Driver side rear of the strut tower on the ground.
Bad Plastic water outlet head.
Bad hose to the heater valve, or bad heater valve.
Bad Coolant Res, Bad Hose going to it.
Bad Plastic Barbed Hose connection Joining the lower Heater core hose, and the steel hose.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *Oh, and also crawled under the car, and noticed that coolant seems to be dripping off of the bottom, edge of the bellhousing on the transmission. ugh! *
> 
> that could be one of the following.
> 
> ...


Good info. Im going to have to check all of these connections with the UV, the coolant pipe looks really rusted im going to have to track down a replacement.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

With regards to the gauge working when you tested it after you took it out, mine did the same thing as when I tested it a small amount of pressure was applied to the leads. This caused the cold solder joint to just barely make contact and work.. Then I attempted to fix it by just heating up the solder and not cleaning the wire like Brian mentioned, but that did not work..


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Good info. Im going to have to check all of these connections with the UV, the coolant pipe looks really rusted im going to have to track down a replacement.


That you can get from NAPA for less than 20 bucks.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...Heater-Hose-Pipe/_/R-ATM027121065D_0257250574

You may have to plug off a fitting...


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey all. Hoping Kamz or perhaps you brian will see this, but im currently trying to wire in the hot start relay. Im following the directions here. 

http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/InstallingHot-startRelay.pdf

I cant figure out what to do with the existing wires going to the starter, and i also am not sure even after rereading the directions.....which wire to cut from the ignition wire cluster at the column.

The schematics make sense to me. i just am not sure which one is the " starter to solenoid wire " to reroute through the relay. Additionally, 
Is grounding the relay to the firewall or inner fender enough? or do i need to send a ground strap from the relay bracked to the negative batt. terminal ? 

Thanks!


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Hey all. Hoping Kamz or perhaps you brian will see this, but im currently trying to wire in the hot start relay...


From the original topic http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2593146 :



briano1234 said:


> There is the wire you spice in to. Take the starter side to a big lug on the relay. Take the switch side to one of the other smaller lugs.
> Take the other big lug to the Positive battery and remove the ground. (It grounds itself via the frame mounting point... if you placed a ground on the other little lug I am thinking it wont work if I remember the first time I connected mine up.).


I defer to Brian for any remaining details as I don't have an A/T Cabriolet and my A/T Vanagon, which is getting a hot-start relay (but not for hot starts, ironically), is a different animal. I've been meaning to redo Oran's diagram, and make his instructions a bit clearer.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey all. So im attempting to remove the timing belt. I've got the both timing marks on the cam gear lined up. This also lines up with the "0" mark on the flywheel. Where im confused is the dist. Rotor is pointing almost opposite of the little line on the distributor housing. Why would this be? The car was idling halfway decent a few weeks ago....


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Hey all. So im attempting to remove the timing belt. I've got the both timing marks on the cam gear lined up. This also lines up with the "0" mark on the flywheel. Where im confused is the dist. Rotor is pointing almost opposite of the little line on the distributor housing. Why would this be? The car was idling halfway decent a few weeks ago....


Because you don't have two marks on the cam. 

Put the Tranny at 0tdc.
Put the CAM at 0tdc.
Rotate the intermediate shaft till the Dizzy is pointing at #1 Cylinder. So you can slip the belt so you can turn the intermediate to get the dizzy @ 12-1 o'clock, or remove the Dizzy and spin it and put it back in.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

This is the procedure I followed. All my reading online here told me that yes theres the OT mark on the car! Which in fact was lined up at the same time as the tranny. Also on the back of the can gear theres a dot that winds up in line with the surface of the top of the head. ALL of this checks out, so why isn't the distributor where its supposed to be? Could the timing really be almost 180 out and the car idles and runs halfway decent.....or so I thought? It did seem like it was lacking a lot of punch but I dont know. I dont want to pull this belt until it makes sense to me why the distributpr rotor isn't lined up with the little mark on the top of the distributor which would also !make it point at the last cyl. On the right. Its basically pointing toward the vw emblem on the grill now. Something is surely out of wack I guess?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> This is the procedure I followed. All my reading online here told me that yes theres the OT mark on the car! Which in fact was lined up at the same time as the tranny. Also on the back of the can gear theres a dot that winds up in line with the surface of the top of the head. ALL of this checks out, so why isn't the distributor where its supposed to be? Could the timing really be almost 180 out and the car idles and runs halfway decent.....or so I thought? It did seem like it was lacking a lot of punch but I dont know. I dont want to pull this belt until it makes sense to me why the distributpr rotor isn't lined up with the little mark on the top of the distributor which would also !make it point at the last cyl. On the right. Its basically pointing toward the vw emblem on the grill now. Something is surely out of wack I guess?


If some one didn't place the wires on the Cap correctly then they move the Dizzy to be correct.... Machts nicht. 
Place the tranny at 0.
Place the dot on the back side of the cam to be even with the valve cover tin.
Rotate the Intermediate shaft so the Rotor Finger is in the middle of the hash marks.

Enjoy the Previous Owners screw up, that you caught it. Place it where the how to from Cabby-info.com shows and you will be alright.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> If some one didn't place the wires on the Cap correctly then they move the Dizzy to be correct.... Machts nicht.
> Place the tranny at 0.
> Place the dot on the back side of the cam to be even with the valve cover tin.
> Rotate the Intermediate shaft so the Rotor Finger is in the middle of the hash marks.
> ...


Ughhh. It figures! so your saying to pull the belt then rotate the Intermediate shaft independently to correctly place the dizzy. There is only but one hash mark on my dizzy housing top. I was looking in cabby info for this couldnt locate anyrhing ill have to look harder! 
Thankyou for the info as always. Once I get the belt off I think im going to just do the head gasket being as im almost down to it anyhow.


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> I was looking in cabby info for this couldnt locate anyrhing ill have to look harder!


Ignition page: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/AdjustingTheTiming.pdf .


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Ughhh. It figures! so your saying to pull the belt then rotate the Intermediate shaft independently to correctly place the dizzy. There is only but one hash mark on my dizzy housing top. I was looking in cabby info for this couldnt locate anyrhing ill have to look harder!
> Thankyou for the info as always. Once I get the belt off I think im going to just do the head gasket being as im almost down to it anyhow.


Take the Cap off the dizzy. Take the rotor off. Remove the plastic shield, and stamped in to the edge of the Distributor Housing Edge is the Hash MARK.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Take the Cap off the dizzy. Take the rotor off. Remove the plastic shield, and stamped in to the edge of the Distributor Housing Edge is the Hash MARK.


I've got exactly this. 

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/shaunmck/Images/Distributor.jpg

So looks like i'll have pop the belt off and rotate the intermediate shaft as you directed to lineup the rotor with this mark, and then have to figure out WHY someone did what they did and confirm the wire order once i put it all back together with the book / cabby-info.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Perfect alignment...


Thats not mine, just posted the pic to show what my hash mark looks like. 
my rotor is pointed opposite this hash mark literally when the cam and flywheel are lined up perfectly.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thats not mine, just posted the pic to show what my hash mark looks like.
> my rotor is pointed opposite this hash mark literally when the cam and flywheel are lined up perfectly.


Well if that is the case and I have it all lined up, I would think about just moving the Dizzy.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Well if that is the case and I have it all lined up, I would think about just moving the Dizzy.


Yeah i may do this as well, though i think it may be just as easy to take the belt off and rotate the intermediate sprocket. 
I'll probably deal with this tonight. shouldnt be that big of a deal. i just need to remember to re-order the wires afterwards. 
Thankyou!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Just a brief little update. Last night got a little bit of wrench time in. Got the lower timing cover off. Lined up mark on flywheel ‘0’ , and the timing mark on the cam gear, 
Though it being WAY off at the dizzy mark, I popped the belt off, and removed the tensioner. Then I rotated the intermediate gear until the distributor was where it needed to be. 

Looks like im going to be doing the head gasket after-all. I think all I need to do at this point is undo the clips on the bottom of the exhaust manifold…….undo a few hoses and wiring connections and pull the head. 
Im so close to it now, theres almost no reason not to do the head gasket, especially with the amount of mileage on this car. 

See photos below. 



Distributor where it should be. 


Everything apart! 





Well needed beer while admiring, or cringing at the current state of the engine! 


Pile of history


The red line shows where the distributor WAS. I hope to god there wasn’t an issue with how the car ran, and someone severely effed with the timing to get it to idle good just to sell it……I always see the glass
As half empty when it comes to Previous owners and their terrible ideas / lack of care….


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Additionally i just realized the " head gasket set " i want to purchase comes with valve stem seals and valve guides and a whole bunch of other capolla. 

Now, i've never ripped apart a head myself....The various tolerances and i know that surely go into a fresh engine build have me concerned in this respect. 
How doable is it to change these seals myself? putting the head back with confidence that i wont be loosing oil into the cylinders by way of the valve stem seals would be a really 
nice comfort to have. I've been looking for DIY's with no luck.


----------



## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

It helps if you have a valve spring compressor tool to do the seals. 

Just squish the valve springs with the spring compressor tool, remove the keeper.
The cap and spring come off when you release pressure on the tool. 
Slide the old stems off..put the new ones on with the installation tool that shields them from being cut.
Put spring and cap back on, put keeper back...go to next spring.

Bout 10 minutes per spring?

Valve guides are a whole nother matter. I'll leave that explanation to others.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks Cajun im going to look into one of those! 

So, I was neglectful and accidently put something ontop of the water temp gauge while it was on the front seat of my rabbit, and the needle came off, i think something broke i dont even know.
I found this replacement on Ebay. Mine isnt VDO it says something else on it i forget, but will this water temp gauge work in my cluster? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Cabriole...Parts_Accessories&hash=item541b7b6ff2&vxp=mtr


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks Cajun im going to look into one of those!
> 
> So, I was neglectful and accidently put something ontop of the water temp gauge while it was on the front seat of my rabbit, and the needle came off, i think something broke i dont even know.
> I found this replacement on Ebay. Mine isnt VDO it says something else on it i forget, but will this water temp gauge work in my cluster?
> ...


The needle is able to come off.... See my how do I do that. The water gauge was outside of the cluster?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The needle is able to come off.... See my how do I do that. The water gauge was outside of the cluster?


yes while i was transporting it home from where the car is to re-solder those joints VIA your how-to


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Yes that one should work. I have a water temp gauge laying around though that I'd sell you for less. 
Let me see if I can find it tomorrow and I'll PM you about it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> Yes that one should work. I have a water temp gauge laying around though that I'd sell you for less.
> Let me see if I can find it tomorrow and I'll PM you about it.


This is awesome man thanks alot!!! If you can find it i'll gladly buy it off you.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Last night i just about finished getting everything all of the BS unbolted from the head, wires, connectors, sensors. etc etc so that i can pull the head this weekend. 

The only thing i couldnt get last night was the exhaust. My car, for some reason does NOT have those special C clips holding the downpipe to the manifold, but rather its got what appear to be
4 bolts / nuts that have been heat rotted on their since 1991. I dont know why, but i have a feeling im going to be cutting the exhaust and not dealing with this while its in the car. 

So anyhow, i plan on making the order tonight / tomorrow for some parts to keep me going......

Im going to order the following Items. PLEASE recommend any other parts you may think i may be missing atleast for this stage in the game

1. The " headgasket kit" from german auto parts. Includes the Head gasket, Both manifold gaskets. and what looks like a bunch of other seals and stuff for the head. 

http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/9243

2. All new head bolts. 



Should i get new o-rings or seals or whatever for the injectors while im at it? 

Is there a good DIY somewhere on removing the cam to change the seals in the head without screwing things up?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

I believe the 90-93's use 4 17mm nuts over studs to hold the exhaust together. Theres a 'donut gasket' that seals up that exhaust joint. Usually you have to lube the bolts liberally to get the 17mm nuts off. Also if the donut gasket falls apart, you may need another one. 

I may try changing the valve stem seals without removing the head, myself. Just ordered a tool to remove the valve keepers where the head stays on. 

As for the cam, just time it correctly when you put it back together. Check your bentley for the correct cam stud tightness.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> I believe the 90-93's use 4 17mm nuts over studs to hold the exhaust together. Theres a 'donut gasket' that seals up that exhaust joint. Usually you have to lube the bolts liberally to get the 17mm nuts off. Also if the donut gasket falls apart, you may need another one.
> 
> I may try changing the valve stem seals without removing the head, myself. Just ordered a tool to remove the valve keepers where the head stays on.
> 
> As for the cam, just time it correctly when you put it back together. Check your bentley for the correct cam stud tightness.


Okay great will do. The head is coming off either way for the valve stem seals. I just have no clue how to change them properly and cant really find anything on doing them either which 
is frustrating a bit, but regardless. I'll have to take a look at the bentley manual. 

thanks!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Should i get new o-rings or seals or whatever for the injectors while im at it?


Absolutely. :thumbup:

http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/InjectorTypes.pdf


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Derekxj said:


> Okay great will do. The head is coming off either way for the valve stem seals. I just have no clue how to change them properly and cant really find anything on doing them either which
> is frustrating a bit, but regardless. I'll have to take a look at the bentley manual.
> 
> thanks!


Just for you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMbFA8cy-E


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Spray the bolts with PB-Blaster, or CRC Freeze-off,,,, let it work, then Spray it again and let it work....
I would suspect that if you use a AIR Impact you can get them off with out damaging them or the studs.
When going back use NEVER-Seize, which will become your friend.

Soaked over night, and then air impacted off......


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Just for you.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMbFA8cy-E


I dont need that valve spring compressor tool though do i? 

should i just be able to pull the cam off and then those caps that are under the cam.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Awesome info Kamz, 

and thankyou for the photo Brian, going to keep soaking them and soaking them even though i hit myself in the eyeballs with the PB blaster last night when i did this :banghead: 

Unfortunately the car is not at my house and i dont have access to air where its currently " in-hiding " so i'll have to resort to brute force stregnth and leverage.......if i snap em, well then i'll just have to deal with it.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The caps are hidden under the valve springs. Thats why the springs have to be removed before you can get to them. 

Sequence is:
1)loosen timing belt, remove from cam gear. maybe can mark alignment of belt to gear before removal. 
2)remove nuts and caps holding cam in place.
3)remove cam
4)pull head and associated mess.
5)use some sort of spring compressor to squeeze the valve springs.
6)remove keeper, remove spring, remove old valve seal.
7)put new seal, put spring, keeper back.
8)go on to next valve.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Made some really good progress this weekend. 

First i got under the car and tried to get the 4 exhaust bolts free. Snapped 3 of the 4. Fine by me. Easier to deal with these
while the manifold is out of the car. May try to find a cheap header anyhow. 

I then unbolted the head, went in the same order as the torquing sequence. Hope that isn't a problem. 

Pulled the head, with both manifolds out of the car. Was easily able to do it myself. 
Upon getting the head off to the side with both manifolds i found the answer to several problems. 

I will highlight them in the photo's below. 

I noticed that it looks like theres a good amount of carbon / burnt oil buildup / whatever on the tops of the pistons. 
Is this a sign that i should DEFINITELY change the valve seals? I think it may be.....Should i clean that stuff off? 
Ive heard some people tell me to NEVER clean carbon and stuff like that out of a high mileage engine, so im not sure.

The piston walls looked nice and shiney smooth. did not see any scoring at all. Oh look. THERES the starter! 









Snapped stud that someone broke, and then didnt fix. Looks like I just found the source of the nasty exhaust leak i've heard since i got the car!! 


Nice job installing the intake gasket Ace! I swear, some people have no business working on cars. If this happens, obviously you notice it because the gasket is sticking out above the manifold like it was. How in gods name can you just say " eh. looks OK! " and not fix it?!!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: 



So. Once the head was off i got the intake seperated form the head along with the injector rail AND the injectors ( it came out together ). 

Then i soaked the rest of the exhaust studs twice over the weekend, and i proceeded to last night heat each one with the torch for about 2 minutes cherry red. Got all of them out without breaking. :thumbup: 
I think im going to let the machine shop deal with the stud thats busted below the level of the head. Im not in the mood to be drilling and tapping aluminium lol. 

So where to go from here? waiting on my head gasket parts kit to arrive.....Currently getting prices from a couple friends that are mechanics with their machine shops. I may let the machine shop pull the cam for me and do the valve seals as well. 
In the meantime i'll most likely be installing the heat soak relay.....pulling the starter to replace it, closing up the heater box hole i created....yada yada yada.


----------



## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Good job up to this point. Once you've done it, pulling the head isn't that scary. Looks like cyl3 and 4 were leaking into each other via the head gasket. See the oil stain on the wall between the cylinders?

If you do reuse the exhaust manifold, check it carefully for cracks. I was able to get cracks brazed up by a machine shop friend of mine.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Good job up to this point. Once you've done it, pulling the head isn't that scary. Looks like cyl3 and 4 were leaking into each other via the head gasket. See the oil stain on the wall between the cylinders?
> 
> If you do reuse the exhaust manifold, check it carefully for cracks. I was able to get cracks brazed up by a machine shop friend of mine.


Thanks! I pulled the head on my diesel in about an hour. Again, thats another ballgame. Theres really no wires or vacuum lines to speak of. I need this car running ASAP as i need to get it on the road, and start driving ti to work out kinks, problems, leaks whatever while i go about the brakes and suspension, and cosmetic crap before i can gift it to the wifey. 

I just got a lead on a NIB raceland header for a 1.8 for like 120 bucks. I might jump on it.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

With regards to the intake manifold gasket, the one in the set you ordered (assuming it's the Victor Reinz set) will also have that additional loop that goes to the top. When I did a head gasket last summer (and what I will do this time around also) is just leave the loop as it doesn't interfere with anything. I debated about cutting it off but that would make it harder to center the gasket.

While it's all torn down, get new hoses and a water pump. You will thank yourself later.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Cut the loop off after you get it on... 

The Raceland header is a Cat Delete thing, if you have emissions testing then you will have to modify it.

Left hand drill bits on the bottom of the broken stud or regular drill bits on the top use a size that is about 1/2 the size of the stud, center it good, and use pb-blaster on it... the hammer drills with left hand bit in reverse work wonders.


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Looking good!

I wouldn't have reservations about cleaning off the carbon from the piston tops.

Good call on taking it in and getting the valve job done as well as letting them deal with the broken stud.

Regarding the header, may want to double check if it clears the automatic, or if it is a bolt on. Most of them require mods to mate to the rest of the system, and if you are in a time crunch that's the last thing you need. There will be time for messing with that kind of thing after the debut.


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## Kräüt2 (Feb 24, 2015)

Valve seals are a must, with that mileage guides too. As for the waterpump, buy a complete one. It's a pain to pull the pump bit out of it's housing as the bolts will snap.
Once you have the intake manifold out you better check a few things, like the idle valve. Clean it out with thinners or similar, then set it right (fiddle with that little allen screw on the air side untill you have as little as possible air going through when it's unplugged) Also, make sure the idle switch works as it should.
Once everything is slapped together ye want to set the idle right again, and th CO. 
All easy to do but makes a hell of a difference.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Kräüt said:


> Valve seals are a must, with that mileage guides too. As for the waterpump, buy a complete one. It's a pain to pull the pump bit out of it's housing as the bolts will snap.
> Once you have the intake manifold out you better check a few things, like the idle valve. Clean it out with thinners or similar, then set it right (fiddle with that little allen screw on the air side untill you have as little as possible air going through when it's unplugged) Also, make sure the idle switch works as it should.
> Once everything is slapped together ye want to set the idle right again, and th CO.
> All easy to do but makes a hell of a difference.



Taking out the water pump with the 4 bolts, that are holding it to the block is easier, and I have done it both ways.
The Trick is that once the whole assembly is out to soak the bolts with PB-blaster, then use a Cordless impact and 10mm 6pt socket.
The pump bolts come out really easy...because the whole thing is out and you can get on the bolts squarely.

Going back you clean everything with a wire brush, then coat the bolts with Never-seize to stop the dissimilar metals corrosion that will occur then on the back side of the bolts spray a anti-corrosion spray I use a Battery Terminal protector, as that keeps road spray and salts off the bolts. Lastly use a in/lbs torque wrench to tighten the housing bolts, to the proper torque, you won't snap them.
Get a Pump with a metal impeller....

If you have a parts yard look for a older rabbit or Golf that has the old barrel nut adjuster bracket for the a/c compressor. It makes tightening the belts a whole lot easier. In the diy's page 3 of the faq's, post 75 there is a how do I do a water pump, there is also a thread on how to tighten a squealing alternator belt with pictures about the brackets that I mention.

See my I hate plastic parts thread, as you can get rid of the BS plastic parts that cause painful memories... Since I changed out the outlets from plastic to metal I haven't had midnight phone calls..... The t-stat cover isn't avail in metal any more, I thing I caused them to sell out....but you will want to get a new one.

No matter what type of Header you go with, Raceland (Cat delete) Pacesetter, or the Expensive 4-2 manifold and dual down pipe, you will need a heat shield around it to protect your power steering rack as well as your CV axles.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> With regards to the intake manifold gasket, the one in the set you ordered (assuming it's the Victor Reinz set) will also have that additional loop that goes to the top. When I did a head gasket last summer (and what I will do this time around also) is just leave the loop as it doesn't interfere with anything. I debated about cutting it off but that would make it harder to center the gasket.
> 
> While it's all torn down, get new hoses and a water pump. You will thank yourself later.


Wow i literally just realized that this intake isnt shaped like my intake on my 1.6 diesel, and that all intake openings are in-line un-like the gasket. I dont like the idea of using this
gasket anyway, it leaves a break in the sealing surface which in my mind can lead to a vacuum leak. No Bueno. It appears as though the only gasket that i can find 
that is ACTUALLY for this car is a fel-pro gasket.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C2CIOM/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I've already pro-cured a new water pump WITH the housing, hoses i need to work on getting ordered the problem is theres SO many of them, I need to really do some 
investigating on the parts sites and find the cheapest deals. I will cross-reference part numbers between rock-auto, amazon, GAP, ebay, Autozone, and several others 
until i find myself saving some coin.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Cut the loop off after you get it on...
> 
> The Raceland header is a Cat Delete thing, if you have emissions testing then you will have to modify it.
> 
> Left hand drill bits on the bottom of the broken stud or regular drill bits on the top use a size that is about 1/2 the size of the stud, center it good, and use pb-blaster on it... the hammer drills with left hand bit in reverse work wonders.


I think im going to forget about doing a header. Your suggesting to drill it through and use an EZ-out? Seems like these studs hadnt been free of their home since 1991. 
Im thinking i'll probably have to drill it and re-tap it. 

Does anybody know where i can buy replacement studs that go INTO the head for the exhaust manifold? I've been looking.....with little luck.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Looking good!
> 
> I wouldn't have reservations about cleaning off the carbon from the piston tops.
> 
> ...


So your saying to clean them off nicey nice then huh? Shouldnt be difficult to do with some brake kleen and emery cloth.

Im going to drop the idea of getting a header. A little extra power would be nice, but at this point i just need the car driveable as you mentioned. Its not worth dealing with right now.
I'll work with what i've got. Paint the manifold in some nice high-heat black paint and call it a day. 



Kräüt said:


> Valve seals are a must, with that mileage guides too. As for the waterpump, buy a complete one. It's a pain to pull the pump bit out of it's housing as the bolts will snap.
> Once you have the intake manifold out you better check a few things, like the idle valve. Clean it out with thinners or similar, then set it right (fiddle with that little allen screw on the air side untill you have as little as possible air going through when it's unplugged) Also, make sure the idle switch works as it should.
> Once everything is slapped together ye want to set the idle right again, and th CO.
> All easy to do but makes a hell of a difference.


Wait a second. Valve seals, are what are coming in my head gasket kit correct? Now Valve guides.....AND valve guide seals. I guess i'll let the machine shop slap all of that in for me. I cant really see them charging much to do that it will probably take them minutes to do compared to the hours it would take me! 
As for the idle valve, i just saw that its probably more expensive to replace than for me to replace the whole engine at this point !! What the heck!! Is there a process shown 
somewhere as far as cleaning the idle valve? What about setting the allen screw and how can i know if theres air coming through or not while its out of the car? blow through it? 
I'll have to search for this. Where / what is the " idle switch "? and how can i make sure its working as it should.



briano1234 said:


> Taking out the water pump with the 4 bolts, that are holding it to the block is easier, and I have done it both ways.
> The Trick is that once the whole assembly is out to soak the bolts with PB-blaster, then use a Cordless impact and 10mm 6pt socket.
> The pump bolts come out really easy...because the whole thing is out and you can get on the bolts squarely.
> 
> ...


As i mentioned I've gotten a brand new water pump & housing from GAP. It came pre-assembled. DO i trust that they bolted these together with the proper amount of torque? 
What is the torque spec on those bolts, i always just run them down until i feel they are nice and tight. I will surely be coating them with never-seize and the battery terminal protector is a trick i've learned to use on my jeep bolts in sensitive areas like this as well. :thumbup::thumbup: Works awesome. I just dont have an in/lbs torque wrench. Excuse to buy a new tool!?!! WOOHOO!! 

Id love to find metal water outlets, it just seems really difficult at this point and im lacking the energy amongst everything else going on! lol. I have new replacements in plastic for them, Wonder how long they will last :facepalm:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I think im going to forget about doing a header. Your suggesting to drill it through and use an EZ-out? Seems like these studs hadnt been free of their home since 1991.
> Im thinking i'll probably have to drill it and re-tap it.
> 
> Does anybody know where i can buy replacement studs that go INTO the head for the exhaust manifold? I've been looking.....with little luck.


If you us a smaller than the stud bit from the top the (a hammer drill works great) you will drill a bit, then the bit will bind, and spin that bolt right out as fast as the drill is spinning.

If you use Left-handed bits from the bottom side of the manifold, with the drill in reverse they will spin right out. Scares the bejeezers outta ya the first time.

And you won't have to re-tap at all. Getting it centered and holding the drill straight is the hardest part... But spray them with PB-Blaster first.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> If you us a smaller than the stud bit from the top the (a hammer drill works great) you will drill a bit, then the bit will bind, and spin that bolt right out as fast as the drill is spinning.
> 
> If you use Left-handed bits from the bottom side of the manifold, with the drill in reverse they will spin right out. Scares the bejeezers outta ya the first time.
> 
> And you won't have to re-tap at all. Getting it centered and holding the drill straight is the hardest part... But spray them with PB-Blaster first.


Okay awesome i dont own any left hand drill bits. Never really gave them a thought i'll surely be trying this out though.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

google or you tube there is probably a video on using a left handed drill bit (key is using a Reversible Drill....)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYvaPbX1sT4


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## Kräüt2 (Feb 24, 2015)

As for the idle valve: just blow through it, whilst doing so adjust that little allen screw to minimal airflow (easier to blow through the side sans screw as it is rather tricky to adjust it with yer tounge). With the engine running, the solenoid should read 400-600mA right after dropping from 3000rpm to set idle. Under 400 bad, over 600 means you have lights or similar switched on. Bear in mind you don't actually need it if you won't be running AC, it only adjusts the idle to aux stuff used like lights etc. It's more important to have the idle itself and CO set right. 
The switch: its just a switch. Take the multimeter and see if it still works, like on/off. If not, dirt cheap to buy, here in Europe a € tenner at VW's.
Read up how to set idle on a Digifant, I remember it's summink like unplugging the blue temperature sensor, let it rev to 3500rpms three times, plug the sensor in again and repeat the same. 

This is vital **** on that setup, makes it run and start smooth, secures a good gas mileage etc etc.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Kräüt said:


> As for the idle valve: just blow through it, whilst doing so adjust that little allen screw to minimal airflow (easier to blow through the side sans screw as it is rather tricky to adjust it with yer tounge). With the engine running, the solenoid should read 400-600mA right after dropping from 3000rpm to set idle. Under 400 bad, over 600 means you have lights or similar switched on. Bear in mind you don't actually need it if you won't be running AC, it only adjusts the idle to aux stuff used like lights etc. It's more important to have the idle itself and CO set right.
> The switch: its just a switch. Take the multimeter and see if it still works, like on/off. If not, dirt cheap to buy, here in Europe a € tenner at VW's.
> Read up how to set idle on a Digifant, I remember it's summink like unplugging the blue temperature sensor, let it rev to 3500rpms three times, plug the sensor in again and repeat the same.
> 
> This is vital **** on that setup, makes it run and start smooth, secures a good gas mileage etc etc.


Okay I think we are 10-4 on the Idle Valve now. The next few you've got me confused on. 
1. Which solenoid? Where is it? 
2. What do you mean by "CO" ? 
3. This Idle Switch you refer to, where is it and whats it do?


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## Kräüt2 (Feb 24, 2015)

1. On the valve. It makes it move around.
2. It's basically air/fuel mixture. Nevermind unless you have the kit to measure. CO is carbon monoxide, the part in your exhaust fumes that comes in handy for suicide. Too much fuel in the mixture and those levels go up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide
3. It's a black microswitch on the backside of the throttle body.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Good luck on the drilling efforts. You may have decent luck with the left hand bits on the busted stud at the head, but i wouldnt hold my breath on the ones on the manifold outlet. And be sure to buy a good handful of bits if you try it. High speed steel bolts wont last all that long drilling on the hardened studs.. If you go with a cobalt bit, they stay sharp alot longer, but they are super brittle so sometimes the "grabbing" action that spins the bolt out snaps the bit off down in the bolt.. When that happens with a cobalt bit, you are typically in a world of crap because the cobalt is a harder material than anything you will work at it with, and then you have to resort to other means to get it out that i wont bother getting into at this point..

**IF it was mine** depending on how much is left of the bolt sticking out of the head I would try gripping it with vice grips. On the manifold bolts, I would grind whatever remaining of the stud that is sticking out of the flange, grind it smooth to the flange, center punch it, and just come up in 3 or 4 steps until its drilled out, then drill and tap it for helicoils. Yes, if you want to make a project out of it, you can extract the bolts, but unless you have a decent amount of experience with it you just end up with broken extractors, a bunch of lost time, and still a broken off bolt. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a helicoil'd hole. They are actually better than a simple tapped hole in most cases, which is why in some applications holes come with them. However manufacturers dont put them in every hole because of cost.

Yes the machine shop will have to do your guides. Basically what you are looking for is a valve job where they will remove the cam/lifters/valve train, and stem seals as a base. They will clean all of the parts, and check the head for flatness. They will then "cut" the valves and seats so they seal properly, and reassemble everything including your new valve stem seals. This service usually runs about 150-200$. However what is extra is guides. The guides are the brass piece that the valve slides in. Prior to performing the valve job the shop will check all the guides for excessive radial play. Any guides that are worn you will be asked and recommended to replace. Replacement guides are usually about 8 bucks each and shops usually get 5-10 bucks each to install them. 

When you get above the 100K mark, guide wear gets common. And you do not want to simply put new seals on top of worn guides. Because the valve is flopping around radially in the guide, it wears out the new seals very quickly and you are right back at square one.

**If it was mine #2** Remove everything that bolts to the head(water outlets, fuel rail, intake, etc). Call around and ask the price of a valve job on a 80s VW 4 cylinder, and what they charge to replace each worn guide. Anyone wanting over 200 for the base valve job or more than 10 labor to do each guide is screwing you. Then throw the head, and the exhaust manifold in the car, and take them to the machine shop. Tell them to remove the broken hardware, and let you know how many guides need replaced. Say OK, and pick up ready to install parts a week or so later. Use the time while the engine is out to go through the brakes and suspension and what not.

Regarding the intake gasket, don't freak out.. You are talking about the loop between the #1 and #2 or #3 and #4 port right? Thats not a break in the sealing surface. The sealing surface is only like a 1/4" region around the port. The 'loop' is to clear the air shrouded injector hose, so even the factory gasket atleast on a post 84 or 85 CIS car has the loop, and since both the head surface and intake surface on the pre-airshroud injector and post air shroud injector is the same, they seal the same.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Kräüt said:


> 1. On the valve. It makes it move around.
> 2. It's basically air/fuel mixture. Nevermind unless you have the kit to measure. CO is carbon monoxide, the part in your exhaust fumes that comes in handy for suicide. Too much fuel in the mixture and those levels go up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide
> 3. It's a black microswitch on the backside of the throttle body.


Got it! Not sure how to test the microswitch but i'll do a search for this. As far as measuring the Carbon monoxide i do not have a kit to measure it, so i'll probably have to just get the car running as best as i can for now without fiddling with that too much. 



BoostedOne said:


> Good luck on the drilling efforts. You may have decent luck with the left hand bits on the busted stud at the head, but i wouldnt hold my breath on the ones on the manifold outlet. And be sure to buy a good handful of bits if you try it. High speed steel bolts wont last all that long drilling on the hardened studs.. If you go with a cobalt bit, they stay sharp alot longer, but they are super brittle so sometimes the "grabbing" action that spins the bolt out snaps the bit off down in the bolt.. When that happens with a cobalt bit, you are typically in a world of crap because the cobalt is a harder material than anything you will work at it with, and then you have to resort to other means to get it out that i wont bother getting into at this point..
> 
> **IF it was mine** depending on how much is left of the bolt sticking out of the head I would try gripping it with vice grips. On the manifold bolts, I would grind whatever remaining of the stud that is sticking out of the flange, grind it smooth to the flange, center punch it, and just come up in 3 or 4 steps until its drilled out, then drill and tap it for helicoils. Yes, if you want to make a project out of it, you can extract the bolts, but unless you have a decent amount of experience with it you just end up with broken extractors, a bunch of lost time, and still a broken off bolt. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a helicoil'd hole. They are actually better than a simple tapped hole in most cases, which is why in some applications holes come with them. However manufacturers dont put them in every hole because of cost.
> 
> ...


I dont plan on touching the busted stud in the head. This one is below the surface of the head. in the photo I added previously it looks like its well above the level, but that was a cobweb or something. it's snapped off in the head and the machine shop can deal with that one for sure. The 3 bolts that are snapped in the lower flange of the manifold I was thinking of doing exactly as you said except hadnt thought about using a helicoil. I'll probably go this route! I will also need to source these studs. They are also not on GAP, perhaps techtonics will have them i need to look. Also, when i split the exhaust from the manifold at that flange i didnt see the " donut " seal that im getting a replacement of in my kit. Where's that lead seal at ? Thanks alot for the detailed info on the machine shop procedure. Cleared up my head a whole bunch on the process!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Just called a machine shop referred to me by a good friend who's a mechanic. 

Gave me a price of 325, ( cash price ) 
That includes a full valve job - pressure check - Milling the head - Valve guides and seals and removing the busted exhaust Stud in the head.

Thoughts? Mind you, im in the wonderful state of New York......


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

If he is doing all 8 guides then go for it. Thats even if you aren't in the land of the 10 dollar big Mac.

But I would skip milling the head unless there is a surface condition issue


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> If he is doing all 8 guides then go for it. Thats even if you aren't in the land of the 10 dollar big Mac.
> 
> But I would skip milling the head unless there is a surface condition issue


Okay good, but DO have him do the pressure check etc etc correct? 
And yes, his price was for the full valve job pressing in the valves or whatever. with the new parts that i would bring him.


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## Kräüt2 (Feb 24, 2015)

Talking about prices Derek, I paid for the EXACT same thing 105€ down here, only my stud was out...wait...bolt...nevermind. I didn't have heli coils that size left.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

I paid 125 to weld up the really corroded sealing surface in a few places, resurface, replace the seals, and grind the valves and seats. He would've charged me more but he kind of put it off for a little so he stayed with 125. I never was expecting it to need welding so I was really great full that he did a great job with it.

Also, I at least attempted to send you a PM with respect to a water temp gauge.

:beer:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> I paid 125 to weld up the really corroded sealing surface in a few places, resurface, replace the seals, and grind the valves and seats. He would've charged me more but he kind of put it off for a little so he stayed with 125. I never was expecting it to need welding so I was really great full that he did a great job with it.
> 
> Also, I at least attempted to send you a PM with respect to a water temp gauge.
> 
> :beer:


125 is a good price for all of that!!! Ah sorry!! I'll check it now. I saw the notification and kept forgetting to look at it yesterday between doing work work. 

Thanks!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey all .....Waiting for cash to order the valve guides and send the head to the machine shop so im kind of on hold at the moment. in the meantime i'll be 
media blasting and painting every pulley, bracket and manifold that i removed to give the engine bay a bit more curb appeal.

http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/InjectorTypes.pdf

Anyhow i was looking at the injectors and the fuel rail. Pulled a few out. I had ordered 1 O-ring PER injector. 
Looking at the injectors, as well as the hole in the head ( :laugh::laugh: ), I noticed that to do his right, i believe that i should need THREE O-rings PER injector. 
Theres one in the head above that plastic piece ( which i dont think i need to replace ), and two on the injectors. Im thinking of soaking the injectors in some 
techron or seafoam while i have them out as well. 

Any thoughts on all of this?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Hey all .....Waiting for cash to order the valve guides and send the head to the machine shop so im kind of on hold at the moment. in the meantime i'll be
> media blasting and painting every pulley, bracket and manifold that i removed to give the engine bay a bit more curb appeal.
> 
> http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/InjectorTypes.pdf
> ...


Well these are electronic injectors, and you need but 2 0-rings per injector. 
vhttp://www.pepboys.com/product/details/8806743/00383/parts/fuel_emission_systems/o_rings_clips_gaskets

As far as soaking, don't waist your time. The easiest way is to get a injector connector out of the yard, and connect that to a 9v Battery.
Connect the connector to your injector, and that will "pick it" Once it is Picked then you can spray injector cleaner through it. Soaking an Electronic Injector isn't a good idea as you can "ruin" the injector by shorting out the "Electrics". Spray the cleaner until you get a good pattern out of it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Well these are electronic injectors, and you need but 2 0-rings per injector.
> vhttp://www.pepboys.com/product/details/8806743/00383/parts/fuel_emission_systems/o_rings_clips_gaskets
> 
> As far as soaking, don't waist your time. The easiest way is to get a injector connector out of the yard, and connect that to a 9v Battery.
> Connect the connector to your injector, and that will "pick it" Once it is Picked then you can spray injector cleaner through it. Soaking an Electronic Injector isn't a good idea as you can "ruin" the injector by shorting out the "Electrics". Spray the cleaner until you get a good pattern out of it.


Thanks brian. What about the 3rd O-ring that is inside the head where each injector goes? 

So your saying get an injector connector that fits, plug it into each injector one by one.....Tie 9 volts to it to pulse the injectors. What do you mean by ( pick it ) ? 
Then take the injector cleaner fill the injector through the top and let it spray out the cleaner...


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

pick = cause injector to open...so perhaps you can run some cleaner thru it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> pick = cause injector to open...so perhaps you can run some cleaner thru it.


Okay thats what i was thinking but wasnt 100% sure. thanks for the clarification. 

Is there any reason to replace those insert " injector holders " that are in the head?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

If you have the injectors removed, there is no fuel pressure to force anything thru it. So by causing it to open, you can dribble some cleaning fluid thru it. 
I know they say to change the injector seals..not sure about the other part.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So while i wait on the fund's to get the head milled been working around the car in little drips and drabs. Nothing too serious. 

Had a brand new in the box master cyl. laying around that i've been tripping over so I decided to install that. Been soaking the fluid res. in brake cleaner because it was so
gunked up i couldnt even read the fluid level ( and a new one is 100 bucks, no thanks!). 

Hit a bunch of the pulley's and brackets with a sandblaster that i recently acquired. Been using glass bead and working out nicely. Started to give those a fresh coat of black rustoleum. 

Picked up a new metal coolant pipe, havent reinstalled yet as im itching to paint the front of the block with some high-temp black paint, just because its rusty and nasty and i want to 
see any future leaks ( hopefully none) , very easily if they happen. 

Installed the heat soak starter relay finally. This worked out nicely. Im debating changing the starter even though it looks really new just because its literally RIGHT THERE at the moment
and i can access it from the top. A friend of mine said the starter sounding like it was dragging and bad could have been because the timing was so far off. Dont really want to spend
another 100 dollars but on the same token, why-not? 

Got back into the interior of the car. Going to finish the hack job patch job on the heater box probably tonight, and yank out the pass. side seat so i can pull out the carpet for powerwashing.

Also pulled out the radiator well because, there were two bolts holding it in, and i want to sandblast and paint the shroud to look all nicey nice. The top of the radiator is quite beat up from having 
no upper card, and I suspect the radiator may be partially clogged. When i pulled the radiator, aside from the hoses i had already pulled from the front does this mean that someone installed a Non-AC rad into the car? Even if i decide to abandon the AC idea, i would honestly like to know that if i decide to repair the system....all of the parts are in place as they need to be. What other connections would there have been on an radiator for an AC car? going to the condensor maybe? i dont know. Should i just replace the radiator rather than deal with the headache of flushing it while out of the car and straightening all of the upper fins? 


Going to need to place another big order for parts next week and get the head milled. D-day is coming closer and closer and i keep getting into this car deeper and deeper. Ahh!!! :banghead:


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> When i pulled the radiator, aside from the hoses i had already pulled from the front does this mean that someone installed a Non-AC rad into the car? Even if i decide to abandon the AC idea, i would honestly like to know that if i decide to repair the system....all of the parts are in place as they need to be. What other connections would there have been on an radiator for an AC car? going to the condensor maybe?


The radiators are the same from 1988 to 1993, regardless of A/C.
http://www.cabby-info.com/cooling.htm#Radiator

The A/C condenser has nothing to do with the radiator; separate system and components.



Derekxj said:


> Should i just replace the radiator rather than deal with the headache of flushing it while out of the car and straightening all of the upper fins?


If it were me, I would. And make/buy a new top baffle while at it (see link above).

:beer:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> The radiators are the same from 1988 to 1993, regardless of A/C.
> http://www.cabby-info.com/cooling.htm#Radiator
> 
> The A/C condenser has nothing to do with the radiator; separate system and components.
> ...


Yes this is where it gets weird though. How can this be. 

On Rock-auto. They list several radiators, but two specifically that are nissens. One, is only about 40 bucks, and clearly states ( W/O AC )-525x320x32mm,
the other ( which is the part # you list for a 91 ), is ( W/ AC) 525 X 310 X 34 mm and about 170 dollars. 40, VS 170. Biggggg difference money wise!

It appears as though the radiator for an AC car is 10mm thinner ? There must be some sort of difference i would assume only because
even sites' like german auto parts, advanced, autozone, ebay, partsauthority ( a local supplier here), all list different model #'s and options for a car WITH or WITHOUT AC and the cost differences are quite drastic.

EDIT: 

I believe your site may need to be revised in this portion. There is infact a difference, its just that you grouped the 1993 WITHOUT AC up at the very top,
Where-as you did not distinguish what the bottom Portion is for ( it should be marked WITH AC).

1979-1993
Engines: EJ/EW/EX/HN without air conditioning
Size: 430mm
Part number: 191121253K

1980-1983
Engines: EN (all); EJ with air conditioning
Size: 525mm
Part number: 171121253AM

1984-1987
Engines: JH (all); EX/EW/HN/RE with air conditioning
Size: 525mm x 320mm x 32mm
Part number: 321121253AL
Replacements: Valeo #883727 (OEM); Spectra #CU837; Nissens #651511

1988-1993 *WITH Air Conditioning*
Engines: JH (all); 2H (all)
Size: 525mm x 310mm x 34mm
Part number: 191121253N
Replacements: Nissens #65192


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Yes this is where it gets weird though. How can this be.
> 
> On Rock-auto. They list several radiators, but two specifically that are nissens. One, is only about 40 bucks, and clearly states ( W/O AC )-525x320x32mm,
> the other ( which is the part # you list for a 91 ), is ( W/ AC) 525 X 310 X 34 mm and about 170 dollars. 40, VS 170. Biggggg difference money wise!
> ...


Okay, yeah; I suck. :facepalm: I took another look at the parts catalog. You are correct. This is how the list should read (I've made a note to correct it):

1984-1987
Engines: All DX, KT, JH; 2H without air conditioning; EX/EW/HN/RE with air conditioning
Size: 525mm x 320mm x 32mm
Part number: 321121253AL
Replacements: Valeo #883727 (OEM); Spectra #CU837; Nissens #651511

1988-1993 
Engines: JH & 2H with air conditioning
Size: 525mm x 310mm x 34mm
Part number: 191121253N
Replacements: Nissens #65192 

Why the difference, I don't know. They are both the same length; it's the height and thickness that are different (A/C version is shorter and thicker).

Side note: GAP shows a 570mm radiator for the '85-'87 cars with A/C. My '86 with factory-equipped A/C has had a 525mm radiator since day 1, and no 570mm radiator is listed in the parts catalog. :sly:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Okay, yeah; I suck. :facepalm: I took another look at the parts catalog. You are correct. This is how the list should read (I've made a note to correct it):
> 
> 1984-1987
> Engines: All DX, KT, JH; 2H without air conditioning; EX/EW/HN/RE with air conditioning
> ...


Ahh Cmon you dont suck. Do you realize how many THOUSANDS of peep's you have provided the information with to successfully fix their cars????!!!
Your website is a literal Gold mine for anyone owning a cabby and for that we're all in debt! lol. The least I can do is point out some new information when i find it!!!! 

But anyhow back to the story. This is where it gets REALLY weird. My 91 ( which the rad was more than obviously replaced on ), i looked last night at the side of it and it a Nissens #651511. So, I think the conclusion we've both come to here is that it may not matter one single bit which radiator you put in the dang car which is certainly going to push me to buy the 40 dollar rad, over the 120 dollar rad that every site lists as the one for my car because its a couple MM bigger? eeehhh F- It !


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey Ya'll :wave: 

So I've got a problem...........I think. I had a bunch of milk-crates in the garage last night. One of which had the fuel rail, without the injectors in it right on the top as i was changing the O-Rings on the injectors on the bench. As i was doing this my friend ( whos garage it was ) , was drilling through the rafters to run a 220 line. Well......Low and behold i realized ( that he didnt realize) , he was right over the crates and a couple decent sized chips of wood made their way INTO the injector holes and into the fuel rail. While trying to get the one out..........yes yes...it pushed in further. I tried removing the big silver cap hoping that would give me full access to the inside, but have found no way to get it off. The regulator thing on the other side pulled out, but gives no more access or view than the injector holes.

What the heck do i do??? Just buy a whole new fuel rail? :banghead:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Hey Ya'll :wave:
> 
> So I've got a problem...........I think. I had a bunch of milk-crates in the garage last night. One of which had the fuel rail, without the injectors in it right on the top as i was changing the O-Rings on the injectors on the bench. As i was doing this my friend ( whos garage it was ) , was drilling through the rafters to run a 220 line. Well......Low and behold i realized ( that he didnt realize) , he was right over the crates and a couple decent sized chips of wood made their way INTO the injector holes and into the fuel rail. While trying to get the one out..........yes yes...it pushed in further. I tried removing the big silver cap hoping that would give me full access to the inside, but have found no way to get it off. The regulator thing on the other side pulled out, but gives no more access or view than the injector holes.
> 
> What the heck do i do??? Just buy a whole new fuel rail? :banghead:


Well I would try using a wire inside of the injector hole upstream of the block. With the FPR off you may be able to push it out towards that end.
You can remove the 7mm bolt on the silver end, (this is where you test for vacuum and you can see through the fuel rail if the FPR is out) and that will allow you to push a wire up to get the chip into the fpr and then push it out.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Well I would try using a wire inside of the injector hole upstream of the block. With the FPR off you may be able to push it out towards that end.
> You can remove the 7mm bolt on the silver end, (this is where you test for vacuum and you can see through the fuel rail if the FPR is out) and that will allow you to push a wire up to get the chip into the fpr and then push it out.


I did spin that little 7mm bolt out......but that leaves nothing but a tiny little hole. Can i take out the entire silver end-cap here to make for a bigger opening? 

What the heck is an FPR? lol. I've got the diaphragm looking piece, if that's the FPR OFF of the rail already......and its also a very small hole. The fuel rail is off of the intake as well.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I did spin that little 7mm bolt out......but that leaves nothing but a tiny little hole. Can i take out the entire silver end-cap here to make for a bigger opening?
> 
> What the heck is an FPR? lol. I've got the diaphragm looking piece, if that's the FPR OFF of the rail already......and its also a very small hole. The fuel rail is off of the intake as well.


The FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) is the piece on the Passenger side that has a Vacuum hose to the Throttlebody.
I don't know what else to tell you but get thee to a wrecking yard. They used the Same Injector manifold on Golfs, Jetta's, Passat's and Fox's.

It is a wood chip, and if you add water it could swell, even some parts cleaners could do that. Have you tried to use a vacuum to suck it out? or blowing compressed air in that little hole.

If you take that end cap out, I am sure that you won't get it sealed correctly and will have a leak there.

037133317L Fuel Distributor.

There are a few on ebay.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

If you didn't hash up the end too much trying to get it off, if you have the regulator out(fpr, diaphragm thingy) I would just blow on the inlet to the rail with compressed air with all the injector connections plugged off with tape. Blow out what you can.. what doesn't come out will likely not be a problem..


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The FPR (Fuel Pressure Regulator) is the piece on the Passenger side that has a Vacuum hose to the Throttlebody.
> I don't know what else to tell you but get thee to a wrecking yard. They used the Same Injector manifold on Golfs, Jetta's, Passat's and Fox's.
> 
> It is a wood chip, and if you add water it could swell, even some parts cleaners could do that. Have you tried to use a vacuum to suck it out? or blowing compressed air in that little hole.
> ...


Thanks Brian, going to have a look on ebay see how cheap i can get one for. If cheap enough, i wont even bother dealing with this so i can move onto bigger and better things...........Like getting the head to the machine shop this weekend! 



BoostedOne said:


> If you didn't hash up the end too much trying to get it off, if you have the regulator out(fpr, diaphragm thingy) I would just blow on the inlet to the rail with compressed air with all the injector connections plugged off with tape. Blow out what you can.. what doesn't come out will likely not be a problem..


I was actually thinking about this last night. I'm going to give it a go this weekend. Im worried whatever doesnt come out......could be a large chunk lodged in there.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So im in the process of ordering new hoses for the car. Already have the two new heater hoses in, 
I dont even know how many hoses they are but i know their all out of the car right now and their going to be a pain to replace 
because i didnt take THAT many photos'. Anyway. I know theres one short section that goes from the new metal coolant pipe i just bought,
over to the water pump.

Its short, fat on one end, small on the other and has a slight bend. I dont see this is on ANY of the parts sites???? 
Can one of you guys help me out maybe I just have a case of the fridays.....i dont know. :facepalm:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> So im in the process of ordering new hoses for the car. Already have the two new heater hoses in,
> I dont even know how many hoses they are but i know their all out of the car right now and their going to be a pain to replace
> because i didnt take THAT many photos'. Anyway. I know theres one short section that goes from the new metal coolant pipe i just bought,
> over to the water pump.
> ...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Ordered it! thanks alot!


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

STAY AWAY FROM HANSAUTOPARTS. 

They have a bad reputation for being very poorly made. Apparently his timing belts have been known to rip within a few thousand miles...killing lots of diesels. Of course he won't refund money, only send you new parts. Not like anyone wants to kill a SECOND engine after the first...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Alright ladies and gents................time for a weekly update. The clock is ticking, VERY quickly might I add. I NEED the car to be running AND driving by the end of this month. I need to be able to register it and put it on the road and start beating her up around town and working out whatever bugs there may be. I just wanted to post some photo's, and information, along with some questions for you 1.8 veterans! 

At this time, the Head is at the machine shop. Theyre doing whatever needs to be done, but most likely a full valve job, pressure check. Removing a couple studs that are busted off in the head ( not by me ), etc etc etc. Hopefully they dont kill my wallet. 

1. IN the meantime, i've been bouncing all over the place. Tried steam cleaning the engine bay....that was a fail it did nothing for all the crud
thats everywhere. What the heck can i get this stuff off with???? its baked on pretty good. Gum off loosened it only a little. 

2. I wanted to try my luck with some paint stripper on the wheels........to my suprise theyre AMAZING under all that yellowed nasty clearcoat!!!
aside from the lips which are all effed up, it doesnt look like i'll have to do TOO much polishing!!!! 

3. Tried out a new steam cleaner a friend bought on the seats......it helped alot, but i also wasnt using any cleaners or anything like that.
Just straight steam. 

4. I installed the heat soak relay mod. Removed the starter, removed the heat shield, removed the oil filter flange as well as the distributor
to prep the block for some nice ceramic paint so next time there are leaks god forbid....i'll find them and trace them QUICK. Plus...the 
engine was just nasty from years of abuse and never being cared for.

5. Got ALL 3 sides of the block painted. She looks real nice now!!!!! I've started sandblasting all of the brackets, pulleys, fan shroud, etc etc
etc etc and repainting everything nice satin black so they will be ready to bolt back on, if i ever remember the order of operations it will
be a serious miracle. 

*Questions*

1. I removed the distributor........cleaned it all up nicey nice. Noticed that the O ring around it has seen better days. Im sure it will work, but i
want to replace it. I tried to match it up as best i could with my metric O ring kit and the new O ring im just not 100% positive its perfect. 
id rather spend the 15 cents and know im getting the one that belongs there but cannot find it for sale anywhere. Anyone ? 
Related to the distributor i found rockauto sells a " gasket " for it? Didnt seem to notice one when i removed the distributor...Im confused.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=2653496&cc=1280393&jnid=431&jpid=0

The distributor, also has some play ( Up and down ). If i grab the gear on the bottom i can push it up and down easily maybe about a 1/4 
inch max. Obviously it wont go up and down like this once its locked in but is this a cause for any type of concern? 

2. I will be replacing the steering wheel on the car with a nardi or something of the sort. Do i really have to replace the entire steering shaft 
down to the knuckle? Is there a way / adapter to get around this? 

3. my power steering rack looks " gunked up " it seems like YEARS of grease and grime. The old pump was completely and totally seized. 
I couldnt even turn it with pliers. Im praying that the pump didnt seize due to lack of fluid running through it due to a leak i dont know 
about. It hasnt been hooked up in a while so obviously nothing is wet currently. Anyway to really test this out while the rack is free and 
open in the clear? 

4. Anybody see anything else that if you were me, you'd be doing / replacing while everything is open and exposed? 

Here are some pics........enjoy.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*1. I removed the distributor........cleaned it all up nicey nice. Noticed that the O ring around it has seen better days. Im sure it will work, but i want to replace it. I tried to match it up as best i could with my metric O ring kit and the new O ring im just not 100% positive its perfect. id rather spend the 15 cents and know im getting the one that belongs there but cannot find it for sale anywhere. Anyone ?
Related to the distributor i found rockauto sells a " gasket " for it? Didnt seem to notice one when i removed the distributor...Im confused.
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...nid=431&jpid=0*

There is no gasket, Just a o-ring. 056905261 when you replace it, slather it a bit with Never-Seize.....

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/C...utor-Shaft-O-Ring/_/R-ATM056905261_0257250799

*The distributor, also has some play ( Up and down ). If i grab the gear on the bottom i can push it up and down easily maybe about a 1/4inch max. Obviously it wont go up and down like this once its locked in but is this a cause for any type of concern?
*

That is about right for one out of the car, Normal.

*2. I will be replacing the steering wheel on the car with a nardi or something of the sort. Do i really have to replace the entire steering shaftdown to the knuckle? Is there a way / adapter to get around this?*

As yours is a Airbag model, the shaft that holds the wheel is 2 parts, if you take off the "air-bag" spline you will be left with a 1989 "normal" mk1 shaft.

*3. my power steering rack looks " gunked up " it seems like YEARS of grease and grime. The old pump was completely and totally seized.
I couldnt even turn it with pliers. Im praying that the pump didnt seize due to lack of fluid running through it due to a leak i dont know
about. It hasnt been hooked up in a while so obviously nothing is wet currently. Anyway to really test this out while the rack is free and
open in the clear? * 

If the wheels turn rack to rack manually then you could be ok. If you want to loose the P/S then Squirt Grease in the Hose ports on the Rack and plug them up.

Otherwise you won't know until you apply pump pressures.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *1. I removed the distributor........cleaned it all up nicey nice. Noticed that the O ring around it has seen better days. Im sure it will work, but i want to replace it. I tried to match it up as best i could with my metric O ring kit and the new O ring im just not 100% positive its perfect. id rather spend the 15 cents and know im getting the one that belongs there but cannot find it for sale anywhere. Anyone ?
> Related to the distributor i found rockauto sells a " gasket " for it? Didnt seem to notice one when i removed the distributor...Im confused.
> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...nid=431&jpid=0*
> 
> ...


Thankyou brian. I think we may both be a bit confused on the O-Ring vs Gasket Debockel. I just found this thread while searching the part number you gave me. You said its an O-ring but that part number AND napa link are for a gasket. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5616004-distributor-o-ring-why-i-never-knew

As for the steering wheel. I assume i will need a puller of sorts to remove this " Air-Bag Spline " ? I can assume its an adapter of sorts for the airbag wheel to the old style column. Hopefully thats the case! I think Kamz site says i need a new steering shaft, and wiper / washer stalks. 

As for the rack......It turns lock to lock fine, but the steering is VERY hard as obviously the pump was seized and someone even re-routed the belts, removed the tensioner and pulley. the pump was just literally hanging there. I will be buying a new pump, and hopefully hooking everything back up leak free i just thought maybe there was a way to prove the rack of leaks prior to putting the head back.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thankyou brian. I think we may both be a bit confused on the O-Ring vs Gasket Debockel. I just found this thread while searching the part number you gave me. You said its an O-ring but that part number AND napa link are for a gasket.
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5616004-distributor-o-ring-why-i-never-knew
> 
> ...


Turning a rack that is Manual is tough if the car isn't moving, it is the same with power steering if the pump fails.
If you are moving it is a nice feel and easy to turn. 

Besides if Kammy can steer her Cabriolet (manual) You should be able to...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Turning a rack that is Manual is tough if the car isn't moving, it is the same with power steering if the pump fails.
> If you are moving it is a nice feel and easy to turn.
> 
> Besides if Kammy can steer her Cabriolet (manual) You should be able to...


Absolutely!!! I have a manual steering 84 diesel rabbit, and MUCH prefer the feeling of manual steering. I grew up learning to drive on a 65' Pontiac tempest ( manual steering and 4 wheel drum and a TANK), as well as a 66 mustang....same. 

This cabriolet however came with power steering, so for now thats how i would prefer to keep it. Its less work to fix the system than to replace it with a manual rack etc etc etc. 

Any thoughts on my update about this O-ring / gasket debockle? I cant find a source for replacement O-Ring! lol. 
Maybe i'll just use both.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Seal, Gasket, o-ring probably all the same name for the o-ring, just have Napa order you one. then go look. Me I have the 2000 piece O-Ring assortment (metric and SAE) from Harbor Freight.... I can usually git-r-done with those.

For some reason I am low on the T-Stat Cover O-rings, as well as the Water Outlets ones....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Seal, Gasket, o-ring probably all the same name for the o-ring, just have Napa order you one. then go look. Me I have the 2000 piece O-Ring assortment (metric and SAE) from Harbor Freight.... I can usually git-r-done with those.
> 
> For some reason I am low on the T-Stat Cover O-rings, as well as the Water Outlets ones....


LOL thats funny last night i went RIGHT into my (blue) harbor freight 2000 piece o ring kit as well......(metric),
I found one thats REALLY close im just worried the O-Ring isnt *Thick* enough and will not seal properly. 

Ah to hell with it. I'll try it. If im leaking oill everywhere out of the distributor i'll deal with it. Im sure it'll be fine.....i hope.

Briano you've been around the ol' block a few times. what woudl you use to get this nasty crap off my firewall and inner fenders and make the bay look new again???


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> LOL thats funny last night i went RIGHT into my (blue) harbor freight 2000 piece o ring kit as well......(metric),
> I found one thats REALLY close im just worried the O-Ring isnt *Thick* enough and will not seal properly.
> 
> Ah to hell with it. I'll try it. If im leaking oill everywhere out of the distributor i'll deal with it. Im sure it'll be fine.....i hope.
> ...


Scrub brush and Totally Awesome. See my how I clean my car thread on page 3 of the faq's


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Scrub brush and Totally Awesome. See my how I clean my car thread on page 3 of the faq's


this is ................" totally awesome" :banghead: Cant believe i just found myself typing that. 
Looks like the " dollar tree" stocks the full lineup from this company. Score!!! 

http://bulk.dollartree.com/search#w=totally%20awesome


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Back when I was young and stupid, I used Simple Green and a toothbrush, followed by Wax Shop cleaner (RIP) and a rag.










For 20+ years of filth: Getting the engine bay warm will aid in removing the grime, regardless of the products used.



briano1234 said:


> Besides if Kammy can steer her Cabriolet (manual) You should be able to...


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

kamzcab86 said:


>


What you thumping your feet at.... I know how tiny you is.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

If you have access to a good pressure washer, now would be a good time to put it to use. It will do wonders. Note I did say good though, not one of those electric ones. 
If not soak it in copious amounts of soapy type stuff(grease cutters that are water based and sud up) as opposed to spirits based stuff that makes oil disappear but dries too fast. 

On the rack, I say just fix the power steering. For aggressive driving the ratio in the power rack is better than a manual. 
My first mk2 GTI was a 16v on tokico struts, Neuspeed springs, had sway bar upgrades, 13" ATS classics and 175-50 Yokohamas. It had a power rack and no pump connected. It was a BLAST to rip thru the twisties. My favorite was a right hand turn at my college that was a 15mph turn and 4 lanes. I would hit it at 60 on the right lane, whip the wheel 1/4 turn, and fly around that bend exiting in the left lane because the car would gradually slide to the next lane in the turn. 
For some reason I switched to a manual rack. It was easier to turn, but that was the end of flying around that bend. I had to crank the steering wheel too far to make the turn at that speed anymore. 

But this car is for your woman not you. She probably doesn't care about the half a horsepower that the car will gain without power steering. And if she will ride it hard, as mentioned I prefer the power rack ratio.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

briano1234 said:


> What you thumping your feet at.... I know how tiny you is.


I'm 5'9" and muscularly slender... my grandma is the *tiny* one in the family, not me. 

As for replacing the steering wheel, helpful reading:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4471617
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4444294

:beer:


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Back when I was young and stupid, I used Simple Green and a toothbrush, followed by Wax Shop cleaner (RIP) and a rag.
> ....


I use gasoline and a toothbrush, and some engine decreaser. MMMMmmm solvent high...JK. But make sure you don't get a solvent high because that's not good for your brain..


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

flying_oliver said:


> I use gasoline and a toothbrush, and some engine decreaser. MMMMmmm solvent high...JK. But make sure you don't get a solvent high because that's not good for your brain..


Or have any kind of spark in the extended area lol. Gasoline is effective but I haven't used it as a parts cleaner in 20 years because of how explosive the fumes are


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks for all the little tips friends! 

Last night i went to the " dollar tree" and bought one bottle for ONE DOLLAR!!!! it was 6 on amazon!!!..............needless to say
within an hour i was back there, buying an entire case. This stuff is freaking amazing. Within 2 minutes or less............it basically melted every bit of grease and grime off of the firewall. whatever was left, i hit lightly with a scrubby pad and that came right off also. Yes, my eyes also almost melted out of their sockets and my lungs felt like they were filled with concrete for a few hours but S O WHAT. the engine bay's coming clean!!!!! 

Before


After 


Little to no effort went into this. Mind you, i was merely wiping the stuff off. I dont have a hose hookup yet outside and wasnt going to push it out in the rain..
I think if i really soaked this stuff in, scrubbed it around.......and then actually powerwashed the engine bay it would look BRAND new!!!!!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks for all the little tips friends!
> 
> Last night i went to the " dollar tree" and bought one bottle for ONE DOLLAR!!!! it was 6 on amazon!!!..............needless to say
> within an hour i was back there, buying an entire case. This stuff is freaking amazing. Within 2 minutes or less............it basically melted every bit of grease and grime off of the firewall. whatever was left, i hit lightly with a scrubby pad and that came right off also. Yes, my eyes also almost melted out of their sockets and my lungs felt like they were filled with concrete for a few hours but S O WHAT. the engine bay's coming clean!!!!!
> ...


Told you this was the cheapest bestest stuff I ever used. And at Family Dollar or Dollar General, it's 3 dollars for a half a gallon.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Told you this was the cheapest bestest stuff I ever used. And at Family Dollar or Dollar General, it's 3 dollars for a half a gallon.


Thats surely a good deal!! Im probably just going to buy a case of it for 12 bucks and keep it in the garage now. :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So started messing with the wiring last night. the O2 sensor harness on the car side is REALLY bad the wires are so hard they will not bend in the slightest and when you try, it simply snaps........this obviously has happened several times and now the wiring is a mess, right up to the connector. with this said i really need a new connector ( car side ) , are these available at all? i've had no luck searching!! 

Put in the distributor last night. How normal is this?? I dont like it one bit .....


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> So started messing with the wiring last night. the O2 sensor harness on the car side is REALLY bad the wires are so hard they will not bend in the slightest and when you try, it simply snaps........this obviously has happened several times and now the wiring is a mess, right up to the connector. with this said i really need a new connector ( car side ) , are these available at all? i've had no luck searching!!
> 
> Put in the distributor last night. How normal is this?? I dont like it one bit .....


That still looks normal.
I just checked a brandy new dizzy that I have in a box, and there is about the same amount of travel in the thing... I can see that from the Gear on the Diz, that it will move about 1/8 of an inch, or the distance between the GEAR and the Case.

Look at yours, it will move the distance or gap that is between the GEAR and the CASE. This is normal.

So do you need the connector for the o2 on the engine side or the manifold side that the o2 sensor is on. The Issue is that with age, oil, and stuff the Shielding (vinyl) gets brittle, and doesn't take well to handling. 

The wire themselves are the same that they loose flexibility that new wire have.

If it is the outer vinyl sheathing then you can cut that loose and use Rubberized (friction) tape to replace it. If you are talking about the wires /connector itself I think you will need to go to a wrecking yard to recover, reclaim, re-purpose, a used one.

Even though it is a 4 pin connector, you only need the Black Wire. The ground is for noise, the two white wires are for the o2 sensor heating coil.

The single wire o2, or the generic 4 wire can be replaced for about 1/3 or less the cost of an original Bosch 02.

And with that knowledge, you can use a Single Spad connector Insulated types that are crimped and soldered with heat shrink to replace a broken wire.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That still looks normal.
> I just checked a brandy new dizzy that I have in a box, and there is about the same amount of travel in the thing... I can see that from the Gear on the Diz, that it will move about 1/8 of an inch, or the distance between the GEAR and the Case.
> 
> So do you need the connector for the o2 on the engine side or the manifold side that the o2 sensor is on. The Issue is that with age, oil, and stuff the Shielding (vinyl) gets brittle, and doesn't take well to handling.
> ...



Thanks alot for checking your distributor brian. Thats good news. I really dont need any additional unexpected costs right now! lol 

As for the O2 sensor wiring yes its the engine side that is all messed up on mine. So the one grounds for noise as you said, and 2 are for the coil. This makes sense. I guess i'll just say hell with it then, fix it up / tape up the wires the best i can to cover the cracked / exposed copper portions and just call it done for now. 


In other news, i've ALSO now decided to drop the pan, replace the oil pump and oil pan gasket. Have another 110 bucks in my cart with GAP for the high volume 36mm pump and upgraded pan gasket along with the two oil filter flange sensors that i just simply havent pulled the trigger on yet. I need a starter soon, 

and then i need to really start trying to extract the bolts on the bottom of the exhaust manifold. Wish i could find a really cheap header somewhere so i dont have to deal with it :banghead: 

My head will be back from the machine shop today. wound up paying 280. full valve job, guides seals , everything....the wholeeeee 9. Yes, I had a hookup. 

Thanks again for all the help to you brian and to everybody. This car is coming along MUCH more smoothly with all of you and your experienced wisdom :thumbup::thumbup:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

The Cheapest Manifold that I found was a 4-2 from a Golf in a Wrecking yard.
I mated that up to a home built 2-1 down pipe that I cobbled together from the end that was attacked to my 4-2 manifold.

In the FAQ's there are links. But I had a really bad cracked Manifold on all 3 of my Cabbies (90ish).
On the White one I went with a Pacesetter header, that had to be modified (really cheap less than 90 bucks 10 years ago).
For the Green one I went with the 4-2 and dual down from tt tuning, about 400.
For the Blue I cobbled one together and it is about the same zoom increase as the Green one.

I do have a Raceland Stainless header that is going to go on the Blue one as soon as I clear the Emissions when the car is 25 years old.
The Racelands are a CAT delete Item, and I don't relish the cobble fit that I would have to do which is why it is Gathering Dust....

http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32179-Create-your-own-dual-down-pipe-1.8

Severely cracked manifold




Now If your Manifold is out.... then Looking at the Manifold above you can use left-handed bits, in a reversible drill to remove them from the Exhaust pipe side.
Or from the Engine side you will use regular bits, and a drill not in reverse.

Pb-Blaster prior for a day, then apply a little heat from a torch, and spray pb-blaster prior to drilling... You choose a bit that is smaller than the bolt like 1/2 the diameter and drill..... Center Punch the bolt.... It will cut for a while slightly bind, then spin the bolt right out...

Google Left-hand-ed drill bits and bolt removal you will see quite a few you-tubes on it. I have been doing this for years..... A machine shop guy clued me and my brother in on this years ago.. When the Bits were like 10-15 dollars each....

Now for 14 you can get a whole set from Harbor Freight.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

You had mentioned the left handed bits to me once before. I havent had the time to actually pick a set up yet.....I will surely be getting them though! It makes 
all of the sense in the world. I've been PB-ing them for 2 days already.....Going to keep at it and then yes torch till cherry red and hopefully they will pop for me nice and easy with those drill bits. 

Im really looking for a CHEAP alternative. I dont want to have to get into a whole bunch of exhaust work if i really dont have to. I know i've read 
some people have issues with these aftermarket headers with the automatic transmissions on these cars etc etc etc so, im not really 110% sure on 
where im going to go with this yet.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Ugh here I go again with my bright ideas. .....This says it will work for a 91. Doesnt mention if it will work for an automatic though.
It is however, dirt cheap......... Comments / concerns? 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-RACING-HEADER-MANIFOLD-EXHAUST-FOR-SCIROCCO-CABRIOLET-JETTA-RABBIT-GTI-/191292023906?fits=Make%3AVolkswagen&hash=item2c89e4a462&vxp=mtr


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Ugh here I go again with my bright ideas. .....This says it will work for a 91. Doesnt mention if it will work for an automatic though.
> It is however, dirt cheap......... Comments / concerns?
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/STAINLESS-RACING-HEADER-MANIFOLD-EXHAUST-FOR-SCIROCCO-CABRIOLET-JETTA-RABBIT-GTI-/191292023906?fits=Make%3AVolkswagen&hash=item2c89e4a462&vxp=mtr


That too is a Cat Delete.....
It will need to be modified.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That too is a Cat Delete.....
> It will need to be modified.


I was planning on deleting the CAT anyways.....thats just a matter of a slip pipe and a couple fittings and about 15 minutes with the welder....not
TERRIBLE i dont think anyway. will it work with the auto though ? will it clear the sway bar? i dont even know. the mod would be nice, but i guess i'll
just stick to the stocker for now. Boooo me.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes it will work for the Auto, otherwise I wouldn't have one of them waiting in the wings


----------



## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Looks almost identical to a raceland one. https://www.google.com/search?q=rac...ead.php%3F5204024-raceland-mk1-header;504;504

Just get a flex pipe welded on at the end of it as it would allow for a little better movement extending the life of the header.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> Looks almost identical to a raceland one. https://www.google.com/search?q=rac...ead.php%3F5204024-raceland-mk1-header;504;504
> 
> Just get a flex pipe welded on at the end of it as it would allow for a little better movement extending the life of the header.


Cool thanks folks. I'll probably screw around with trying to get the studs out of my stock manifold first and hopefully come up with some extra bucks and order 
this. Should i install it (exhaust manifold) on the head and then drop the entire assembly back on the engine the same way i took it all off? 

Seems like it would be a nightmare to install the manifold after the head is on.

ALSO To whomever said they had a good functioning PS pump laying around, as well as a fuel rail....Please get back intouch!!


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Cool thanks folks. I'll probably screw around with trying to get the studs out of my stock manifold first and hopefully come up with some extra bucks and order
> this. Should i install it (exhaust manifold) on the head and then drop the entire assembly back on the engine the same way i took it all off?
> 
> Seems like it would be a nightmare to install the manifold after the head is on.
> ...


I find that I can get the manifold on either way, and have done both. Since you are replacing the bolts it would behoove you to cut the heads off of 4 bolts, and dremel or grind a srewdriver slot in them Partially screw them in at the corners and when you place the head on the car they act as a guide to hold the gasket, and head together and aligned. 

To hang the manifold after you catch the corners of the mani. Then bolt the others on USE NEVER-SEIZE.....
You will get more clearance in removing the starter on the auto.... But it is painless. The other way you can ding the gasket and it is awkward and weighs more.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> I find that I can get the manifold on either way, and have done both. Since you are replacing the bolts it would behoove you to cut the heads off of 4 bolts, and dremel or grind a srewdriver slot in them Partially screw them in at the corners and when you place the head on the car they act as a guide to hold the gasket, and head together and aligned.
> 
> To hang the manifold after you catch the corners of the mani. Then bolt the others on USE NEVER-SEIZE.....
> You will get more clearance in removing the starter on the auto.... But it is painless. The other way you can ding the gasket and it is awkward and weighs more.


Okay so i dont know what you mean by cut the heads off the bolts, but do understand what you mean by cutting a flat head slot into them to screw them in.

I've used the double nut locked onto each other with good results in the past. Wouldnt it just be easier to put all of the exhaust manifold studs in before i put the head on at that point? It just seems like it would be a complete nightmare to get my arms up in there to get the nuts on and tighten them all down. I know just trying to get to the starter alone around the axles and exhaust and everything else was a complete pain when i tried before i took the head and manifolds off. 

I guess it all depends if i get the header or not. Time and Funds will tell!! ALWAYS never-seize on exhaust. I learned that early on in life. lol.


----------



## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Derekxj said:


> ALSO To whomever said they had a good functioning PS pump laying around, as well as a fuel rail....Please get back intouch!!


Was me...I'll go find those parts when I get home tonite.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay so i dont know what you mean by cut the heads off the bolts, but do understand what you mean by cutting a flat head slot into them to screw them in.
> 
> I've used the double nut locked onto each other with good results in the past. Wouldnt it just be easier to put all of the exhaust manifold studs in before i put the head on at that point? It just seems like it would be a complete nightmare to get my arms up in there to get the nuts on and tighten them all down. I know just trying to get to the starter alone around the axles and exhaust and everything else was a complete pain when i tried before i took the head and manifolds off.
> 
> I guess it all depends if i get the header or not. Time and Funds will tell!! ALWAYS never-seize on exhaust. I learned that early on in life. lol.


1. As you have to use new bolts, the old one are stretch and can't be re-used. But you can cut the heads off the old ones and then grind a notch in them to 
Screw them in and use as a guilde.

2. For the exhaust studs get the to a napa and get replacement studs off of a Saturn. The exhaust studs have a hex head to drive them in they are far superior
to the VW style, and come in Stainless.



Use never-seize and the copper nuts.


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Lol. Per yalls recommendation. Even if it barely works, amazing value. For a dollar tree item I was expecting tiny bottles like 5hr energy drink!


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Lol. Per yalls recommendation. Even if it barely works, amazing value. For a dollar tree item I was expecting tiny bottles like 5hr energy drink!


 hahahahahaahah you will NOT regret it!!!!! However i just discovered they sell a " refill bottle " that is actually bigger than the little spray bottles.
( Also 1 dollar ). So i recently picked up 3 of those, and a little empty spray bottle. I cant wait to use this stuff on my OWN car...or even better yet my jeep. Will it melt all of the frame rot off of my poor truck??? ........a guy can dream cant he? :screwy:


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Lol yeah. I got 2 spray bottles and 8 refills. Total cost like 10.63 lol

This thing isn't clean, but it was downright nasty 3 quarts of awesome and half a case of brake cleaner ago











At 6$ a bottle I wouldn't be real impressed but I would say it still works as expected. At $1 a bottle, I'm in love!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Lol yeah. I got 2 spray bottles and 8 refills. Total cost like 10.63 lol
> 
> This thing isn't clean, but it was downright nasty 3 quarts of awesome and half a case of brake cleaner ago
> 
> ...


Huh? Cleaner? What?? 

Sorry ive got AAZ on the brain!!!!!!! :thumbup::laugh:


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> Huh? Cleaner? What??
> 
> Sorry ive got AAZ on the brain!!!!!!! :thumbup::laugh:


Close, its AHU


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

BoostedOne said:


> Close, its AHU


gesundheit


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Danke!


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

:thumbup::laugh:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Folks I need help, and there may be more where this comes from because IM the schmuck that doesnt take enough pictures. I took about 50 in and of the bay of all sorts of things trying to avoid this problem.......Some my fault, some the PO because things were not installed correctly or half apart and I had no idea of how they go back. 

This giant AC / through the water pump bracket........surely my fault!!!!! 

I need help identifying some bolts, and what they hold. 

First question. The upper and lower heater hose. Perhaps it doesnt matter, but i'd like it to go back the way it was meant to be. Especially being as the PO bypassed the entire heater core and had some crazy U shaped pipe to do so. Does the water pipe connect to the top and the heater valve to the bottom as i show it , or is it vice versa? 
****FYI brian worth Mentioning..............the heater pipe you gave me the # for from NAPA, thhere are a couple items. 

1. The one outlet really low on the pipe needed to be capped. Not a big deal at all.
2. The pipe is missing the lower bracket that holds the pipe tight to the block, but it DOES have the one that holds it to the head. Im sure this will be OK, or i hope!
3. the pipe itself, is a larger diameter than the existing pipe. I had a bit of a time squeezing me new OE replacement hoses over the low outlet onto the water pump,
and the high one as you can see is going to be a tight squeeze over the heater hose. 



Im having a nightmare of a time racking my brain trying to remember what goes on here with this bracket. Theres these two bolt holes on the side of the block. Are there just two bolts that go in there, and thats that? or does something ELSE slip in between / over first? 
My next question would be, are they allen bolts? I hope to god i didnt lose these as well!!!!!!!! Although almost everything bolting to the block seems to me M8x1.25, which i've got plenty of hardware for. 



Now, What goes here? Also just a bolt through the bracket and into the block? This seems to be the case, but once i tighten this stuff down, i really........really do not want to have to continuously unbolt things and remove parts because I forgot stuff. 




Thanks for bearing with my stupidity! Should have taken REAL detailed photo's of this stuff, and should have bagged and marked EVERY bolt i removed. This is what i ALWAYS do when stripping things down like this. I dont know why in earth i didnt on this car. Now im really doing one of these because of it. :banghead: :banghead:
I'll be able to figure it out for the most part, but some of this is tricky!


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

The heater valve connects to the hard pipe via a 2 to 3 inch hose on the hard pipe end.
The lower hose connects to the water outlet flange hose with a (fecking plastic) Barbed hose connect, but get a new brass one from Home Depot one last plastic part that will break. 










There are 2 Allens that are missing from your passenger side mount (yep they are Allen headed)

The last thing is the bolt for the a/c bracket I think that is what you are pointing at are 10mm headed short bolt about 3/4 of an inch IIRC.


The Bolt that is Sticking out of your block to the right is for the knock sensor. The round thing in my picture.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Exactly what i needed!!!!!!! Thankyou!!!! 

So the upper hose is what connects the heater valve to the metal pipe. I think im going to need to trim the heater hose coming out of the firewall down to make that happen mainly because 
the pipe is just a littttttle bit different ( and thicker ) than the stock one. This doesnt allow me to snuggle it into the same exact spot close to the block where it was. In-fact, im even concerned with clearance of the pipe behind the oil filter once i get that back on. I guess time will tell. 

Those two allen bolts, they must be very short i assume. I'll have to start hunting and searching my parts pile for them hopefully they are in there somewhere!! 

Thanks Brian. 

This weekend i'll most likely be dropping the oil pan and pump, to replace it with the high volume upgrade pump from GAP. Cleaning up the bottom of the engine etc etc etc. 

Installing the new starter, and hopefully, ordering up the header so that i can bolt the head back on and really put this project into high gear. 

The clocks ticking!!!!


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

You might want to look for the lower timing belt over as I am thinking that is missing, as that is held on by one of those missing bolts.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> You might want to look for the lower timing belt over as I am thinking that is missing, as that is held on by one of those missing bolts.


Okay i'll take a look for it later tonight and clean it up / see how it bolts up. I know the ONE bolt that holds it on is the stupid one that goes through the water pump.....
That i have in the water pump waiting so i know it wont get lost. 

One more quick question, does the heater cable wire get routed above or below the brake master? it just seems like it's a little bit stiff and not bent properly when
i held the heater valve up to the core hose. This valve was dangling when i got the car, thats why im not sure.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay i'll take a look for it later tonight and clean it up / see how it bolts up. I know the ONE bolt that holds it on is the stupid one that goes through the water pump.....
> That i have in the water pump waiting so i know it wont get lost.
> 
> One more quick question, does the heater cable wire get routed above or below the brake master? it just seems like it's a little bit stiff and not bent properly when
> i held the heater valve up to the core hose. This valve was dangling when i got the car, thats why im not sure.


Either way so that it isn't bent, but curves towards the valve.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Either way so that it isn't bent, but curves towards the valve.


I have only seen them over, but I'm sure both would work fine.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Alright gents going to be spending some money..........Again. Ugh. To try and keep this project rolling.

Have a new auto-shift knob coming from a member. 
Have a power steering pump and fuel rail to replace mine that has wood chips in it coming from Cajun soon. 
Have a glove box door coming from ANOTHER member......And just ordered a new overhead dome light off ebay ( hella ofcourse ).
This weeking im hoping to take both pieces of carpeting to the self wash and powerwash the bajesus out of them, and HOPEFULLY get my dang head back!!!

About to order the high volume oil pump, and upgraded oil pan gasket as well as some more coolant hoses and this......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/191292023906?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2650&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

I'll have no issues welding in a bung for the O2....not a big deal. I'll have to get UNDER the car and cut back the exhaust sytem to wherever the header goes to......Also not a big deal. My question is. IF i was to use this stuff......

http://www.amazon.com/010129-Titanium-Exhaust-Header-Wrap/dp/B002R4U7G4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429281539&sr=8-1&keywords=Exhaust+header+wrap

Do i still have to fabricate some sort of heat shield for the power steering rack?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

There is a 50/50 thing with wrapping header.

Some folks have used this, and auto makers as well, to reduce the heat.

The problem that I see is that the header will tend to get hotter. Insulation is a 2-way street. While it reduces the heat externally it also keeps the heat in.
Over time this may weaken the Steel.

There are a lot of ways to make a heat shield, the cheapest is to take license plates off of cars and cut and bend. 
It will divert heat off the sensitive areas and allow the metals to cool after shutdown.

I suppose that I am used to bending things instead of wrapping them. 

Which route you go, not heat shielding the pipes can lead to premature failure of CV joints as well as Power Steering Racks.

Do I think it will work? Yes it will work. But it will take a few layers to achieve results I am thinking.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> There is a 50/50 thing with wrapping header.
> 
> Some folks have used this, and auto makers as well, to reduce the heat.
> 
> ...


Okay Got it. I kind of want to wrap the header anyway just to keep some heat from soaking right into the intake. I know all about the game of keeping intake temps cool............But you're point makes quite a good amount of sense as well. Lincense plate it is. I actually have a bunch of sheet aluminum i could probably use as well. Let me ask you though how did you actually affix the heat shield to your manifold?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay Got it. I kind of want to wrap the header anyway just to keep some heat from soaking right into the intake. I know all about the game of keeping intake temps cool............But you're point makes quite a good amount of sense as well. Lincense plate it is. I actually have a bunch of sheet aluminum i could probably use as well. Let me ask you though how did you actually affix the heat shield to your manifold?


First time I used two separate pieces of aluminum front to back and that allowed me to Curve it to the Pipes. From the Manifold down and around the 
Steering rack. I used 2 Stainless Steel machine screws with 4 fender washers to attach it I used 2 Self-locking (not nylon) Stared nuts. 





Is Basically what I did. I also beat a License Plate to the "Tunnel" and used some screws and wire tiles to hold it tight.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> First time I used two separate pieces of aluminum front to back and that allowed me to Curve it to the Pipes. From the Manifold down and around the
> Steering rack. I used 2 Stainless Steel machine screws with 4 fender washers to attach it I used 2 Self-locking (not nylon) Stared nuts.
> 
> 
> ...


Awesome picture........Very very clear. Thanks alot for that!!!!!!!!!! I guess before the head goes in ( hopefully ) i'll have the exhaust manifold and can kind of hold it in place to mock up a shield.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey everyone. Been taking a short remission on this project while waiting for money, and time. 
I've still been working on the car, but REALLY small little here and there type things. the money is starting to become a real problem! 

None the less, got a bunch of stuff this week being as i got paid last week lol. 

1. Fresh glove box door. 
2. used oil pump ( should i order the 13 dollar seal / rebuild kit and install it? Couldnt find any writeups on this ). 
3. water pump to front of head hose.
4. oil pump ( 36mm upgrade )
5. oil pan gasket. 
6. a Pre-Repaired water temperature gauge so i can put my cluster back. 

Question about the oil pump. The old one i took out, feels more or less smooth. The new one out of the box......well........feels like complete $hit. 
Is this just simply because it hasnt had oil ran through it? Should i put it to a drill and run some oil through it prior to install so its not a dry pump on first start? 
Additionally............The pump looks literally identical to the one i removed. Is it only the internals that are different and not the body of the oil pump? 

I also noticed that on german auto parts where i ordered this stuff from......theres a " baffle " listed that " clips to the oil pump pickup" . Well, there WAS no baffle 
on mine when i dropped the oil pan at all. Did 91's have this baffle? I just want to get to the bottom of this before i install the new pump. 

Is there sapposed to be a gasket between the oil pump and the bottom of block? 

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Cabriolet/Engine/151/2





Found just a litttttttttttleee bit of milk on the very bottom of the pan. I guess the head gasket was surely leaking! 


And some ( not so much ) progress photos. 




Back wheel clearcoat all removed. I dont even think i need to polish them really!!! 


Carpets all out now so i can powerwash them......., but interior still in complete disarray.


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> I actually have a bunch of sheet aluminum i could probably use as well.


If you want the benefit of wrapping without actually wrapping, simply stick some heat shield matting onto your new metal shield. Drawback: The stuff isn't inexpensive. 



Derekxj said:


> The new one out of the box......well........feels like complete $hit.
> Is this just simply because it hasnt had oil ran through it? Should i put it to a drill and run some oil through it prior to install so its not a dry pump on first start?


Yes, you should manually prime the pump before installation: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ReplacingTheOilPump.pdf .

If the mounting bolts are 90mm, the car possibly already had a 36mm pump installed. The 36mm pump body is slightly taller, IIRC, than the 30mm, hence the need for longer mounting bolts.



Derekxj said:


> I also noticed that on german auto parts where i ordered this stuff from......theres a " baffle " listed that " clips to the oil pump pickup" . Well, there WAS no baffle
> on mine when i dropped the oil pan at all.


They all came with baffles. If replacing the factory original pump, it is recommended to buy a new baffle because, odds are, the old baffle will break during removal from the pump. It's possible that's what happened with your car: The pump was replaced, baffle broke, PO said "to hell with it" and installed the replacement without the baffle.



Derekxj said:


> Is there sapposed to be a gasket between the oil pump and the bottom of block?


No.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> If you want the benefit of wrapping without actually wrapping, simply stick some heat shield matting onto your new metal shield. Drawback: The stuff isn't inexpensive.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Kamz!! 

What is the danger in not actually having one of these " baffles " installed? 
Thanks for the link to your site.......this time i forgot to look there before asking questions! Doh!


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks Kamz!!
> 
> What is the danger in not actually having one of these " baffles " installed?
> Thanks for the link to your site.......this time i forgot to look there before asking questions! Doh!


For the oil pan Oil starvation on cornering.
If you bought the pan gasket with the tray, then you don't need it.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> For the oil pan Oil starvation on cornering.
> If you bought the pan gasket with the tray, then you don't need it.



Which tray are you speaking of? I didnt see one available with a gasket when i bought the new style rubber gasket.


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Which tray are you speaking of? I didnt see one available with a gasket when i bought the new style rubber gasket.


It's a windage tray: http://www.mk1autohaus.com/Oil-Pan-Windage-Tray-w-Gasket_p_7968.html .


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> It's a windage tray: http://www.mk1autohaus.com/Oil-Pan-Windage-Tray-w-Gasket_p_7968.html .


Okay so the windage tray is actually 40 bucks on GAP, the baffle is only 20. 

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Cabriolet/Engine/484/1

Im going to find a baffle even cheaper if possible somehow. Is the windage tray any better than the baffle that i should spend the extra money ( and time waiting for it )?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay so the windage tray is actually 40 bucks on GAP, the baffle is only 20.
> 
> http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Cabriolet/Engine/484/1
> 
> Im going to find a baffle even cheaper if possible somehow. Is the windage tray any better than the baffle that i should spend the extra money ( and time waiting for it )?


50/50..... I bought a new baffle as I already had the gasket.  
Be sure to hand start the screws by the bell housing and get the proper torque it is like 15 ft/lbs.

baffle 051103623


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> 50/50..... I bought a new baffle as I already had the gasket.
> Be sure to hand start the screws by the bell housing and get the proper torque it is like 15 ft/lbs.
> 
> baffle 051103623


You're referring to the bolts that hold the oil pan up? Yeah, i had a blast last night scraping the old dried rock solid cork off of the bottom of 
the RUBBER rear main seal........:banghead: 

This is the first time ive ever changed an oil pan gasket or even dropped one without doing the rear main. 

Thanks for the part #. Found in a few locations real cheap. So the Plastic baffle will do the job just fine, as originally designed. 
Just trying to keep this thread informative and with as much info as possible! Naturally with all of your help! 

http://www.hansautoparts.com/051103623OilPanBaffle.aspx

http://www.hansautoparts.com/051103623OilPanBaffle.aspx

Seems to be two different types. This one. 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-2-0L-8V-ABA-B4-Passat-MK3-Jetta-Oil-Pump-w-Pick-up-Tube-and-Baffle-027115105B-/291382764848?hash=item43d7c42530&vxp=mtr

and this one.
http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/68814

Im trying currently to find one at a local parts supplier. not having too much luck!


----------



## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

I personally would try to stay away from hansautoparts...as his stuff has been reported as rather low quality (timing belts shredding within 2k miles..). That being said, it is a baffle, so does quality matter?

Search prothe if you are curious. 

With regards to the two different types, the one from germanautoparts is the one that was on my car.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

flying_oliver said:


> I personally would try to stay away from hansautoparts...as his stuff has been reported as rather low quality (timing belts shredding within 2k miles..). That being said, it is a baffle, so does quality matter?
> 
> Search prothe if you are curious.
> 
> With regards to the two different types, the one from germanautoparts is the one that was on my car.


Ordered a new Distributor for my cabby, got a g-60... said it was my fault... Just saying..


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

flying_oliver said:


> I personally would try to stay away from hansautoparts...as his stuff has been reported as rather low quality (timing belts shredding within 2k miles..). That being said, it is a baffle, so does quality matter?
> 
> Search prothe if you are curious.


Run, don't walk, from HansAutoParts, aka Peter Rothenbacher. 

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=320500


----------



## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

kamzcab86 said:


> Run, don't walk, from HansAutoParts,




After all I heard of him I don't know I would get anything. If its not a critical part there's the chance that the role ranching/stamping/molds are lousy and the part just won't fit...


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thank-you all!! Point well received and advice taken! Will be ordering a new baffle at the end of this week most likely.
Death in the family this weekend slowed down all progress on the car. I will be picking back up starting tonight. Head came back 
from the machine shop yesterday, and boyyyyyyy is it pretty. Sandblasted and painted, all cleaned up looks brand spanking new! 

Exhaust header also came in. Need to weld a bung in for the O2 sensor. Any input on where on the header it should be welded? 
If i put it on one of the pipes coming from a cylinder and not below at the collector is it a problem?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thank-you all!! Point well received and advice taken! Will be ordering a new baffle at the end of this week most likely.
> Death in the family this weekend slowed down all progress on the car. I will be picking back up starting tonight. Head came back
> from the machine shop yesterday, and boyyyyyyy is it pretty. Sandblasted and painted, all cleaned up looks brand spanking new!
> 
> ...


More clearance on passenger side down pipe, but you will need to extend the o2 wiring. Hard to see the clearance if not under car and it is a ton easier to get to than behind the manifold.

Here is the mock up on my home made dual down.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> More clearance on passenger side down pipe, but you will need to extend the o2 wiring. Hard to see the clearance if not under car and it is a ton easier to get to than behind the manifold.
> 
> Here is the mock up on my home made dual down.


Thanks Brian. So you're saying to put it on the portion of the header that is ONE pipe, not one of the individual's coming from the cylinders. Maybe i'll just burn in the bung after the header is bolted up we'll see i guess. 

But holy cow........that weld!!!!!!!


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks Brian. So you're saying to put it on the portion of the header that is ONE pipe, not one of the individual's coming from the cylinders. Maybe i'll just burn in the bung after the header is bolted up we'll see i guess.
> 
> But holy cow........that weld!!!!!!!


That was the mock up... The finished welds look better....
The Transmission mount gets in the way on the other side....
Just showing you the Clearance Clarance.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That was the mock up... The finished welds look better....
> The Transmission mount gets in the way on the other side....
> Just showing you the Clearance Clarance.


Clearance clarance!!!!!  HAHAHAHA. 
I KNOW YOU! YOU'RE KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR! 

ANyhow. that does give me a much better idea though thankyou. shouldnt be a problem to extend that wiring at all,
but boy am i not looking to bolting the manifold up AFTER the head is on :banghead: I know its going to be a terrible
experience! lol


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Okay ladies and gents. Bit of an update. Not much, but its something!!! 

Got the stock exhaust system cut back......Thought i was going to have a CAT to bring to the junk yard and recoup a little bit of money? NOPE! looks like someone already completely hollowed it out! 

Last night i was messing around with the power steering pump, removing the old.....cleaning up the new. When i disconnected the old lines there was nasty, light brown milky crap coming out of the lines.
Is this really bad? I have no idea why it would be like that. I also Added in the extra ground on the cluster on the inside of the car to the firewall, and installed my new to me working temp gauge i received! 
Cluster is back together, just needs to be re-installed. Dropped the new exhaust manifold in just for the heck of it, need to make sure all the clearances under the car ( specifically under the sway bar ), are okay with this new manifold. I was having trouble pulling it up to where it will need to sit on the head. 

Head came back from the machine shop and looks absolutely amazing. Its literally like a brand new head!! They removed the little black threaded pieces ( i think where the injectors go ), and the little seals / o-rings 
in them appear to be wiped out. Where can i source some new ones? Pictures below. 











I need to place an order this weekend will look like this. 

1. Oil pump baffle
2. Lower Radiator Hose
3. plastic inserts for head
4. frontal sensor for top of oil flange
5. Oil pressure large sender for side of head.
6. radiator
7. alternator

( My wallet is crying just having typed this out ). After this...... ( I HOPE) the only big purchases left will be the top ( all 3 layers ), the brakes and the tires.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Napa sell the inserts, you can order them from autohausaz as well as GAP or ECS.
GAP probably has the highest shipping on lots under 100.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Napa sell the inserts, you can order them from autohausaz as well as GAP or ECS.
> GAP probably has the highest shipping on lots under 100.


GAP is WAY lower than rock-auto, which is unfortunate because rock-auto is the cheapest on parts. 

Cant find them on the napa site. They are called " fuel injector holders" are they not?

EDIT*** Napa online, " fuel injector insert " . 
1.50 more, but unfortunately im placing a big GAP order anyhow so I guess i have to deal with the shipping. theres no add in shipping for the inserts.

For anybody that needs these and ASAP / local......

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx/Fuel-Injector-Insert/_/R-ATM037133555_0257245005

Thanks brian.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hello All. Little bit of an update. 

*18 DAYS AND COUNTING TO GET THIS CAR RUNNING, DRIVING AND SOLID AS A ROCK!*

Im pretty sure its going to be like an episode of overhaulin' the last few days. i'll have some of the most skilled guy's i know
over there helping me wrap it all up im sure. 

Hit a minor bump in the rode financially.................Found a set of practically new coil-overs for 200 bucks. That put a little dent in me and 
stopped me from being able to order yesterday the oil pump baffle, oil temp sensor, starter. radiator, etc etc etc. 

It sucks in a way but last night when i stepped into the car and heard a loud clunk and creak from one of the struts i knew i made a good decision, plus, right now the rear looks slammed on air-ride while the front looks like it has a lift !!! ANYWAY.....

Last night without the parts i needed to continue on the engine, i moved to the interior. 
Cleaned it all out of tools, parts, dead mice.....and got to wiring all 4 corners for speakers. I twisted the wires together with the appropriate color for each corner, and ran them the same as factory up to the dash for a clean look. Yes, i removed the ACTIV wiring from the rear, left the harnesses in the door though. 
I also ran an 8g red and black to the trunk while the carpets out for a future amp, and a blue for the remote turn on ( future ). 

Here now i have a few questions. 

1. The reason my HVAC controls were completely busted was because the way the PO installed the head unit, it 
fell onto the controlls and i sapose then while moving the controls....it busted due to this. I sappose i COULD
attempt to use some sort of back strap on the deck screwed into some part of the inner dash to support it up?
How did ya'll handle this issue? 

2. I would like to while the dash is open locate an ignition source wire in the existing stereo harness to tap into
the yellow wire on my new head unit. Does anyone know off hand which wire that may be? 

3. While i dont HAVE to, i would " like to " keep the factory tweeters functional. Without buying a crossover, is 
there any way to use the existing U-Shaped crossover thingy from teh activ system to power the tweeters as 
well without having them all plugged into that huge harness?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*1. The reason my HVAC controls were completely busted was because the way the PO installed the head unit, it
fell onto the controlls and i sapose then while moving the controls....it busted due to this. I sappose i COULD
attempt to use some sort of back strap on the deck screwed into some part of the inner dash to support it up?
How did ya'll handle this issue?*

See my how to fix the broken heater control mount in the FAQ's its there.

*2. I would like to while the dash is open locate an ignition source wire in the existing stereo harness to tap into
the yellow wire on my new head unit. Does anyone know off hand which wire that may be?*

For switched power use a wire to the defroster switch... it is easier as I don't have the exact pairs that you need but I have a wiring charts for all the units in the FAQ's 

*3. While i dont HAVE to, i would " like to " keep the factory tweeters functional. Without buying a crossover, is
there any way to use the existing U-Shaped crossover thingy from teh activ system to power the tweeters as
well without having them all plugged into that huge harness? * 

Yes, but you would need a short small self powered crossover takeoff. Radio shack used to sell them... you powered them off the main speaker pair... usually a inductor and a Capacitor....


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *1. The reason my HVAC controls were completely busted was because the way the PO installed the head unit, it
> fell onto the controlls and i sapose then while moving the controls....it busted due to this. I sappose i COULD
> attempt to use some sort of back strap on the deck screwed into some part of the inner dash to support it up?
> How did ya'll handle this issue?*
> ...



Thanks Brian! I read through the FAQ, missed the one about tapping off the defroster switch though. As for the mounting of the stereo. Im not asking how to repair the HVAC controls, this i have already replaced. Im looking for a good way to mount the stereo so that the back of it will not fall ontop of the HVAC controls going forth. 
I see the back of the stock head unit had something on the back that sat into a little mount at the back of the dash, which supported the unit and kept it straight. 
Obviously an aftermarket stereo cage attached to the plastic bezel isnt enough to support the entire weight of the head unit, so im not sure how to do this.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks Brian! I read through the FAQ, missed the one about tapping off the defroster switch though. As for the mounting of the stereo. Im not asking how to repair the HVAC controls, this i have already replaced. Im looking for a good way to mount the stereo so that the back of it will not fall ontop of the HVAC controls going forth.
> I see the back of the stock head unit had something on the back that sat into a little mount at the back of the dash, which supported the unit and kept it straight.
> Obviously an aftermarket stereo cage attached to the plastic bezel isnt enough to support the entire weight of the head unit, so im not sure how to do this.


Oh, on one of my previous cabbies I ha to knock the mount bracket off then bore a hole that allowed me to attach a bolt to the new head unit to
go in to the rear of the dash and keep it propped up. I used a smaller bolt with paint on the end and propped the unit up to level so I inserted the unit to mark the back where it would need to bolt through.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Oh, on one of my previous cabbies I ha to knock the mount bracket off then bore a hole that allowed me to attach a bolt to the new head unit to
> go in to the rear of the dash and keep it propped up. I used a smaller bolt with paint on the end and propped the unit up to level so I inserted the unit to mark the back where it would need to bolt through.


Okay wow interesting. Thankyou!! This is easier than trying to wrestle a strap of some sort in the tiny little space! Thanks. :thumbup:


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Ladies and gents, 

Just because im a bit slow, and my brain is currently a bit cloudy even after reading through the responses the first time i asked im not 110% sure on where to locate
the O2 sensor bung on my new header. My concern is that if i put it on one of the individual cylinder tubes ( IE #1) , the O2 may not monitor properly and will cause some 
sort of running issues? If i can put it there, i will not need to extend the O2 sensor wiring, which wouldnt be a problem but none the less it would be one less thing to do. 

Where should i put it . #1, #2, or #3 ? Somewhere in-between?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

#2 but on the passenger side, sideways.. you will have more room, and it is easier to replace in the future.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> #2 but on the passenger side, sideways.. you will have more room, and it is easier to replace in the future.


Awesome thanks Brian. Time to start gettin' a move on' !!!


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Just want to put a bit of valuable information in here for all you cabriolet Folk. 

Was hunting for tires, as cheap as possible since im on an EXTREME budget and dont have much time left to finish this car. 

Was kicking around the idea of putting on the 155/55 Federal formoza's since my coilovers just came last night, but i was looking at 
JKERRS 91 EA build 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5601310-91-VW-Cabriolet-Etienne-Aigner-BUILD-Thread/page2
and realized i honestly just liked the way the stock 185/60 tire size looked. After much shopping around 

I Discovered http://simpletire.com and got a set of Fuzion Touring tires for about 27 dollars a piece. Yes they are new.
wound up paying about 175 dollars shipped to my door and they will be here today or tomorrow. I HIGHLY recommend these guys!! 

:thumbup:


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Also while im dropping shameless plug's for companies and people. 

Here's JKerr's profile, He did a phenominal job re-creating me a set of EA decals in blue matched SUPER close to what the original blue 
decal's looked like. Real quality work at an awesome price, if his car already didnt give that away. Id recommend him for any Vinyl work  you may have / desire.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/member.php?529464-JKerrDesign


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey folks. This weekend all of my coilovers finally arrived. REALLY pumped to get them in!!!

Tires should be here tomorrow. I need to get the convertible top ( all 3 layers ordered and start to cut the old one off ). 

I've got so much to do in so little time my head is spinning! 

I got the front of the car up in the air nice and high, and pulled the old struts and springs out.
The front strut mount bearings are SHOT. i can wiggle them around in the housings side to side with my fingers.

I ASSUME the rears wont be much better, so im ordering them all at once. 
Does anyone else see something that im missing on these orders for Rockauto, german auto parts and amazon? 





more sandblasted parts getting painted. 


Coils.


2 weeks and counting down. :banghead:


----------



## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Don't forget the tube of window weld to fill the strut bearings! Even the german made ones started to separate at the top within a few weeks....

http://www.amazon.com/3M-08609-Window-Weld-Urethane-Cartridge/dp/B000FW61EW


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> Don't forget the tube of window weld to fill the strut bearings! Even the german made ones started to separate at the top within a few weeks....
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/3M-08609-Window-Weld-Urethane-Cartridge/dp/B000FW61EW


What am i to fill? Is there a spot to fill from? im lost lol.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> What am i to fill? Is there a spot to fill from? im lost lol.


see: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7133629-I-hate-my-strut-bearings!-Ideas-for-HD-replacement the second page has pretty pictures.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> see: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7133629-I-hate-my-strut-bearings!-Ideas-for-HD-replacement the second page has pretty pictures.


Perfect. Ugh another 24 hours i'll have to wait once i receive the strut mount bearings to actually install the coilovers! Doh!


----------



## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> Perfect. Ugh another 24 hours i'll have to wait once i receive the strut mount bearings to actually install the coilovers! Doh!


You can install them just fine after the window weld hardens for about an hour or two (it's sticky as heck..wear gloves). Just don't take the cabby off of the jack stands for a few days (the longer you leave it dry, the better).


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Okay thanks alot!!! Im still not 100% understanding the principal but i take what you cabby veterans say to heart and if this is a good thing to do........i'll be doing it whether i understand or not! lol. 

Here are some more photos. I know everybody likes pictures! 



If you look REALLY close, ( or zoom ) at the BACK end of the FRONT most control arm mount, theres a REALLY NASTY $hitty weld in there. Im not sure
WHAT could have happened there!!!!! Perhaps it was seized and they cut the entire mount out? i have no idea, but the weld splatter everywhere is concerning. 

these were SHOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 
Hey, wasnt there a recent thread about someone wanting quick-struts? HERE THEY ARE! 

5 minutes with some mothers mag polish. cant WAIT to see what sandpaper and a real wheel with real polish does!!!!!


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

derekxj;87666575
...cant wait to see what sandpaper and a real wheel with real polish does!!!!!
[/quote said:


> *
> Can you say mirror?*


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *
> Can you say mirror?*


I sure can! and thats exactly how i want them, however the lips as you can probably see are going to be a nightmare, and are surely going to require some grinding 
and stuff. Why cant people just learn how to park a car and NOT slam the curb??????? :banghead:


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Okay thanks alot!!! Im still not 100% understanding the principal but i take what you cabby veterans say to heart and if this is a good thing to do........i'll be doing it whether i understand or not! lol.


I've never had a problem with the front strut mounts failing like shown in that linked thread, but there again my car isn't a daily driver.



Derekxj said:


> I sure can! and thats exactly how i want them, however the lips as you can probably see are going to be a nightmare, and are surely going to require some grinding
> and stuff. Why cant people just learn how to park a car and NOT slam the curb??????? :banghead:


You can do it!










^Inspiration.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> I've never had a problem with the front strut mounts failing like shown in that linked thread, but there again my car isn't a daily driver.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats the Gent' that made my EA Decals custom for me!!!!!!!! Great guy, and obviously does QUALITY work. I look at his build thread on that
car atleast twice a week. The wheels came out ABSOLUTELY gorgeous!!!!!!!!! I however, in the time i have are not going to be able to get them
to quite that point. I just want them to be high-polished and looking halfway respectable for the big reveal. I can always go back to them 
at a later date..........I've got 2 weeks before the girlfriend will be seeing the car ( hopefully driving ), as well as this thread as proof to all the 
work and love i dumped into this thing!


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Little bit more of an update. 

Last night I mediablasted the intake manifold, and cleaned all of the gunked up oil out of it as best as i could. 
took it over to where i have the car, and painted it with silver ceramic based engine paint. Also disassembled the Throttle body and did the same thing to IT. 
They came out fantastic. 

Tires also showed up yesterday so that means i REALLY need to get working on these rims. 
Additionally, The front strut mounts, rear wheel bearings, and a few other little odds and ends showed up from German Auto Parts. 

I also bought a 16 dollar can of 3M super 77 and started RE-adhearing the door panel fabric TO the door panels so they wont fly around in the wind. 
I removed the rear speaker grilles from the rear door cards, and painted them nice satin black with krylon fusion, along with the plastic E-Brake cover which the 
PO had painted green. As usual.............the pictures.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

About to pull the trigger on a top. REALLY trying to save some money.........some how some way. 

Could you guys jsut tell me if these seems legitimate, and if it is......is that blue the actual right color for what belongs on my car? it almost looks too light. i know the car originally had cloth, but i dont think i can afford it at this time. Please advice asap! 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Volkswagen-Rabbit-Cabrio-Wolfs-1980-1993-Convertible-Soft-Top-Blue-Vinyl-/151413575911?hash=item2340f3d0e7&vxp=mtr


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> ...is that blue the actual right color for what belongs on my car? it almost looks too light.


The blue EAs came with dark blue canvas. If wanting to stick with OEM color-wise, you want dark blue vinyl, "cabrio grain" vinyl being preferred over "pinpoint" vinyl.
http://www.topsonline.com/model/Con..._Volkswagen_Cabriolet,_Rabbit_And_Golf_1.html
http://www.mtmfg.com/vw/165/Volkswagen-Rabbit-Cabriolet-Convertible-Tops-1979-94

But, if funds are an issue, you sometimes have to go with what's available to you. I.E. the choice is ultimately yours.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> The blue EAs came with dark blue canvas. If wanting to stick with OEM color-wise, you want dark blue vinyl, "cabrio grain" vinyl being preferred over "pinpoint" vinyl.
> http://www.topsonline.com/model/Con..._Volkswagen_Cabriolet,_Rabbit_And_Golf_1.html
> http://www.mtmfg.com/vw/165/Volkswagen-Rabbit-Cabriolet-Convertible-Tops-1979-94
> 
> But, if funds are an issue, you sometimes have to go with what's available to you. I.E. the choice is ultimately yours.


I absolutely understand. 

I was asking if the blue thats in the picture on the ebay link looks like the " dark blue " to you folks only because 
it doesnt seem that Robbins manufactures multiple blues.......but just the ONE blue. However the color samples ive seen on topsonline and mtfg the robbins blue looks a bit darker?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I absolutely understand.
> 
> I was asking if the blue thats in the picture on the ebay link looks like the " dark blue " to you folks only because
> it doesnt seem that Robbins manufactures multiple blues.......but just the ONE blue. However the color samples ive seen on topsonline and mtfg the robbins blue looks a bit darker?


Friends Don't let Friends buy Robbins.

The topsonline is really close to the color of the top... When I get home I can cross check it to some that I cut off last week from a install.... 
It was a EZ-On top.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I absolutely understand.
> 
> I was asking if the blue thats in the picture on the ebay link looks like the " dark blue " to you folks only because
> it doesnt seem that Robbins manufactures multiple blues.......but just the ONE blue. However the color samples ive seen on topsonline and mtfg the robbins blue looks a bit darker?


Friends Don't let Friends buy Robbins.

The topsonline is really close to the color of the top... When I get home I can cross check it to some that I cut off last week from a install.... 
It was a EZ-On top.

As a matter of helpfullness I can take a photo, of both a swatch from a top together against the Pic on-line.


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> I absolutely understand.
> 
> I was asking if the blue thats in the picture on the ebay link looks like the " dark blue " to you folks only because
> it doesnt seem that Robbins manufactures multiple blues.......but just the ONE blue. However the color samples ive seen on topsonline and mtfg the robbins blue looks a bit darker?


At CabrioWorld, there are two blues shown: dark blue and midnight blue. Midnight blue is the shade for your EA. 

https://www.cabrioworld.com/secure/detail.asp?pID=213&modelID=685

Pinpoint vinyl is usually a bit lighter in shade than grain vinyl.

The eBay top won't look bad (although, I'm not a fan of pinpoint vinyl), but it simply won't be the original color combo.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Friends Don't let Friends buy Robbins.
> 
> The topsonline is really close to the color of the top... When I get home I can cross check it to some that I cut off last week from a install....
> It was a EZ-On top.
> ...


Okay thanks, but i need to move QUICK!!! This guy can give to his brother tonight, and tonight only who lives 20 mintues from me. 
He told me he will sell me that top i linked, PLUS a brand new headliner ( in black, i didnt really want black) for 150. 
Both are Brand new in the boxes. 

What is so bad about robbins? topsonline sells robbins and its alot more $$ than the EZ-on.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1986-1993-Volks-WAGEN-WOLF-CABRIO-CONVERTIBLE-TOP-HEADLINER-FREE-SHIPPING-/151436291405?hash=item23424e6d4d&vxp=mtr


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay thanks, but i need to move QUICK!!! This guy can give to his brother tonight, and tonight only who lives 20 mintues from me.
> He told me he will sell me that top i linked, PLUS a brand new headliner ( in black, i didnt really want black) for 150.
> Both are Brand new in the boxes.
> 
> ...


For that price It may be good. Robbins has been having quality issues lately.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

As Promised


Ez-0n hartz cloth dk blue



topspnline


Looks pretty close to me....


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

briano1234 said:


> As Promised
> 
> 
> Ez-0n hartz cloth dk blue
> ...


A hint for you because I occasionally am a nice guy.
Don't use any type of petroleum Lubricant on a Cloth top or cable, leave that for the vinyl tops... It will most likely stain... even KY-jelly.

Here is the HINT.........
instead use Palmolive or any type of Dish soap, and it comes in colors to match your top ..... blue for blue green for green clear for tan and red for red.
Pour some in a cup add a smidgen of water and Paint the stuff with a Brush in to the Cable tray, and on the cable. If it gets dry, spray with water to make it slick again..... When it dries it will not show, and it totally cleans up with water... Matter of fact I suppose when it rains you may get bubbles out of the tray area  :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


----------



## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

briano1234 said:


> As Promised
> 
> 
> Ez-0n hartz cloth dk blue
> ...


Except ^that's canvas; the OP was asking about the *pinpoint vinyl* top being sold on eBay.

I posted blue EA's on the previous page with various color tops. While not an EA, here are some Cabriolets with "dark blue" vinyl tops, like the one on eBay:




















briano1234 said:


> A hint for you because I occasionally am a nice guy.
> Don't use any type of petroleum Lubricant on a Cloth top or cable, leave that for the vinyl tops...


Again, OP is getting a vinyl top, not canvas due to the cost.

And a forum hint (etiquette): It's better to edit your posts to add subsequent info than to quote yourself, especially if your post has photos.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Brian, 

Thanks alot for the photo's of the blue cloth and showing me the beauty of the top that i cannot afford  lol. 
I really do LOVE the cloth. i love how its not shiney, and really classes up the car i feel but EVERYTHING, the cables, and all layers that route would 
be about if not more than 700 dollars shipped. I only paid that for the whole car! The vinyl is going to run me about 550. If i only buy the padding cables and
other BS and get the top and headliner from the ebay guy, id be saving a few hundred easy. 

which brings me to kamz thankyou! lol. Thanks for posting photo's of that actual tops color I want to just go get it so badly because its SO cheap 
and would save me alot of money i just dont know if its REALLY worth running the risk of having the top look not quite right on the car. 

last night i bolted up the throttle body. Was going to put the intake onto the head, but i dont have a fuel rail yet ( i THINK that goes on first), and i still have to pickup the
exhaust studs tonight as they'll be easier to get in while the intake manifold is off. 

I then prepped for the front brakes that will be arriving tomorrow. Pulled the old pads off, calipers and caliper brackets. 

that black, NASTY window weld crap showed up so i filled in the new strut mounts as suggested. 

Remounted the rear speaker covers and speakers in the door cards. Ran a new power wire for the stereo. Reinstalled the cluster. Jumped out the airbag wire under the fuse block. Then i started fussing with the wheel that i had off of the car some more, with some 3M scotch brite pad and polish and more paint stripper it got a little better but not great. 


ALSO. the top is messed up, Its been down this entire time so last night i tried to pull it up to start working on it and it seems to STOP abruptly as you start lifting it .
I thought those two little push buttons on the sides of the rear seat had to be pushed inorder to get it up so i tried that but no. It seems to me and my lack of knowledge that where the strut on the driverside ( the front most portion ) attaches to a piece of metal.........it seems that THAT piece of metal is bent out, and hitting another arm as the top tries to lift up ( or down ) causing it to jam. not sure how to fix this. I think it may be bent ?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Inside the trunk, or behind the rear frame of the top are the Struts that lift it.
Unclip the "c" clip remove the washer and pop that sucker off. That is probably what is binding you.

The struts are half price at McMasters.





You may have to remove the Cardboard cover: 


Now with the struts loose, you may have to release the lock on one side and lift the front lip and hold it up while you walk to the other side and pop the latch there as well. The top will be heavier to lift....

Where is the link to the cheaper struts.... Why page 3 of the Faq's post 75 vert top section.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Inside the trunk, or behind the rear frame of the top are the Struts that lift it.
> Unclip the "c" clip remove the washer and pop that sucker off. That is probably what is binding you.
> 
> The struts are half price at McMasters.
> ...


Thanks for those photo's. that helps alot. I placed the order with mcmaster yesterday for the struts and eyelets per your post on page 3. MUCH cheaper! Even with overnight fedex shipping to me, i saved just about 60 bucks plus some shipping expense. Awesome! 

Im pretty sure it IS something bent on the driver side frame where the strut attaches on the ram portion that is bent and hitting another part of the frame causing it to lock up when i try to lift. I'll have to get more photo's of this tonight. Does lowering and raising the top always require both of those releases to be pulled? That seems like it can be a pain in the arse without two people.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Why cant this dang video be longer??? 

Im considering spending an extra 30 bucks from M&T for the installation DVD. I have a full home theatre / dvd and TV setup in teh garage where the car is.........
may make my life a bit easier! 

Brian, how is it that you havent made a DVD to sell at a discounted price to fellow VORTEX members yet? You seem to be the one all end all go to head ed when it comes to these dang cars and their silly tops! Secondly. WHY cant vw design their tops like the top on my wrangler is? 4 bolted connections, and some zippers.....DONE!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Why cant this dang video be longer???


Look for the Genuine VW ones in French there are 2 parts...

Well I would have to have some one film it, then there is the editing.... and who wants to see an old fart put on a top.
Now If I could get a Model to do it, then I could probably make a half a bazillion dollars on it....
Especially when she tells you to lube the Channel.... Yall are a bunch of PIGS.....

Every top is a Custom Fit. No two fit the same....
Cloth has different considerations than vinyl both are very similar....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kdZDCnd9Oc


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Look for the Genuine VW ones in French there are 2 parts...
> 
> Well I would have to have some one film it, then there is the editing.... and who wants to see an old fart put on a top.
> Now If I could get a Model to do it, then I could probably make a half a bazillion dollars on it....
> ...


WOW that video looks like its from the 70s. Brian is that you??????????? 

Who knows maybe theres some freaks here that wouldnt mind seeing you in some stilettos installing a top. I hear you only wear such attire on sundays though. 
Oh well! Seriously, i mean hey, if you would like to come to BEAUTIFUL long island for a day, and install a brand new top on my not so brand new car
id be MORE than willing to film the entireeeeeee process, Heck. I'll even make the DVD's for you ( mass produced ), along with the DVD cases and covers AND i'll
handle advertising it on here and shipping it out to people on MY dime............ofcourse using your paypal address. I would want nothing out of it. Extra income for you! 

Who could turn down a deal like this! :thumbup: Oh and i'll have a keg of Guinness waiting for you.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> which brings me to kamz thankyou! lol. Thanks for posting photo's of that actual tops color I want to just go get it so badly because its SO cheap
> and would save me alot of money i just dont know if its REALLY worth running the risk of having the top look not quite right on the car.


Quick Photoshops:










It's not going to look bad, it just won't be OEM. If funds are a real issue, buy the vinyl top now and live with it; then in a few years, if your lovely lady wishes to have dark blue canvas, make a "Convertible Top Fund" and save up for one.



Derekxj said:


> ALSO. the top is messed up, Its been down this entire time so last night i tried to pull it up to start working on it and it seems to STOP abruptly as you start lifting it .
> I thought those two little push buttons on the sides of the rear seat had to be pushed inorder to get it up so i tried that but no.


It's possible that the locks aren't fully releasing; this happens when my '86's top is left down for a really long time. Push down on one release, while pulling up on the top frame (don't force anything; if it's stuck, it's stuck... proceed with Brian's suggestion); repeat on the other side:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Quick Photoshops:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the photoshops.......you're right. now im kicking myself a little. It wouldnt have looked too too bad. However......................



They were ALOT cheaper than topsonline was going to be, plus theyre much closer. the best tops online could do for shipping was an estimated delivery of next thursday. thats the big day.............
These guys actually dug around and found ONE dark blue vinyl in their inventory and said i could have it most likely by monday!! plus i was very satisfied with talking to the guy on the phone. Sounded like an installer and insured me with all of the other
work i've been doing on this car it would be a piece of cake for me. HAH! I bet i'll prove him wrong! 

None the less, thats that.........the biggest single purchase i've had to make is now over with. Tonight i'll be working on sanding and polishing all of the wheels and getting the coilovers installed all around. 
Id LOVE to mount up the power steering pump, however the bracketry down there to me at this stage is like trying to read Japanese. I lay under the car almost every night. stare at it........with the pump in my hand twisting and turning it different directions
before i say Ah heck with it and go do something different.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks for the photoshops.......you're right. now im kicking myself a little. It wouldnt have looked too too bad. However......................


Eh, it's just money.




Wheels are looking good. :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

yeah just money! lol. something i can never seem to hold onto! ( And i work 7 days a week! ). 
Now to explain some reason to the girlfriend that I cant hangout with her all weekend. :banghead:

Thankyou! Im going to kick the crap out of those wheels tonight with any luck. Going to be sanding and buffing / polishing all night long.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Now to explain some reason to the girlfriend that I cant hangout with her all weekend. :banghead:


cough  sniffle, cough


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> cough  sniffle, cough


Lol she know's me alot better than that........ and she knows im up to something.
You have no idea how hard its been keeping the heat off of myself for the past 3 months with this damn thing! lol.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Last night, as soon as i got home i went to the store and blew like 100 bucks on a real variable speed buffer, wheels, compounds ( brown and white ), etc etc. and went to the car planning to attack all of the wheels and make them mirrors. 
.......Well that didnt happen. I did as i read in SO many places. Sanded with a DA......went from 80-120-180-220. 
Then i started with the brown compound. well...........an hour later with the brown compound and it was starting to get shiny but i could STILL see all the scratches and swirls. This turned into a real nightmare. 

Then i gave up, moved onto the front coilovers. Got them in no problem, just need to find a tool of some sort to finish tightening down the top nuts, ( i think i need a ratchet with a hole in the middle, im not sure . i dont want to spend 30 dollars on that tool from GAP ). Also, on the driver side that eccentric bolt was missing and someone replaced it with a regular bolt. is this a problem?

After I did this, I went to slide the exhaust gaskets over the studs i had just installed. Now the gasket it shiney metal on one side, and almost like gasket material on the other. The way that they are shaped, two of them have to be flipped in the opposite dirrection. is THIS a problem? 

Sorry about all of the questions, its just been a long long time since I dug into a car this deep, and for so long!


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

For the nut on the top of the strut mount, go to harbor freight and purchase a set of metric offset wrenches http://t.harborfreight.com/8-piece-...-4GwDw&usg=AFQjCNHMurh-O-znTqhkRwmwJKxKZokhKg 

On the exhaust manifold I also had to flip 2 of those gaskets also. I personally don't think it will be a problem and haven't had a problem with mine. If you don't flip them it blocks off part of the exhaust (as you already know). 

Since you are getting close to reassembly, make sure to torque the headbolts in the correct sequence (see Bentley and the headgasket thread that should be posted a few pages back). Also don't scoot the head around on the new gasket as it will ruin it. If you have a helper or two, it makes head install go very smoothly. 

One last thing, fill the coolant system first with just water for the first start. Then if it leaks anywhere it won't make a mess and it also will help clean out any crud that entered the cooling system while it was apart. Flush the heatercore with water separately before reassembly.

Btw..it looks great :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> For the nut on the top of the strut mount, go to harbor freight and purchase a set of metric offset wrenches http://t.harborfreight.com/8-piece-...-4GwDw&usg=AFQjCNHMurh-O-znTqhkRwmwJKxKZokhKg
> 
> On the exhaust manifold I also had to flip 2 of those gaskets also. I personally don't think it will be a problem and haven't had a problem with mine. If you don't flip them it blocks off part of the exhaust (as you already know).
> 
> ...


Hey thanks alot man! Going to go to HF (but more likely sears, or my friend with a snap-on route) right after work and pick those up being as i just got paid lol. Never thought of offset wrenches!! So just sock them down until i cant crank them anymore right? 

The headbolts i will SURELY be torquing properly. I just hate that stupid quarter turn - to stretch BS with these cars! Its more of an annoyance than anything. I know i know im about to get yelled at by brian but i never actually bought a bentley for this car. I have one for my rabbit but thats a diesel. The torquing pattern i can find, but can anyone tell me the sequence, including the stretch method afterwards out of the bentley? 

Great idea with the water, never really thought to do that but i never liked using straight water because i know it can cause flash rusting inside the block and veins and so forth. Why do i need to flush the heatercore prior to assembling all the hoses and everything? 

Thanks for the tips and compliments appreciate it all!


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> Hey thanks alot man! Going to go to HF (but more likely sears, or my friend with a snap-on route) right after work and pick those up being as i just got paid lol. Never thought of offset wrenches!! So just sock them down until i cant crank them anymore right?
> 
> The headbolts i will SURELY be torquing properly. I just hate that stupid quarter turn - to stretch BS with these cars! Its more of an annoyance than anything. I know i know im about to get yelled at by brian but i never actually bought a bentley for this car. I have one for my rabbit but thats a diesel. The torquing pattern i can find, but can anyone tell me the sequence, including the stretch method afterwards out of the bentley?
> 
> ...



Post 64 and 76 http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6992942-Replacing-Head-Gasket

You are filling the car with expensive new coolant but the heater core is still filled with who knows what (I'm assuming it wasnt replaced). Therefore flush it with water and get the water out with careful use of shop air.
Btw, orileys sells pentosine coolant that is specified for vw's. Cabby info lists how much is needed. 

Oh and the strut bearings, there is a torque spec (probably listed in this link http://www.cabby-info.com/images/Specs/TorqueSpecs.pdf) but I just tightened them down and then a little more. Haven't come loose since.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey all. 

So, the thursday deadline is seeming more and more un-reachable for me. :thumbdown: working sat. and sunday has been kicking the heck out of my body to the point where
i physcally just cannot work on the car by the time i get back from working at about 6-7 pm. With that said, this weekend was quite unfortunately extremely un-productive. 

Friday night, was fairly productive though. Got a good amount done, started cutting the old top off. I tried following the frenchmen's directions on youtube while they worked.......but they lost me with the crap resolution when they started un-screwing all sorts of crap............so from that point I went to Brians' thread.......and followed is yank and pull method and god it all off. I didnt yet pull the headliner as it seems complicated with lots of straps and rivets yada yada yada so im going to remove that directly before I install the new one. 
Im HOPING the DVD these people are sending me is of good quality and highly detailed!! 

I also got the front brakes put together, except the pass. side caliper because its completely shot so now i need to track down one of those tonight after work so i can call the front brakes complete and move onto the back. 









SO.....it turns out, that the pass. side bracketry and such look great. 
The driver side is where the issue is. There is a bracket with a pivot point in the middle which the eyelet of the strut goes over. 
On the driver side that bracket is COMPLETELY bent almost right at the joint quite badly. So much that when youd try to lift it was slipping ontop of another bracket and preventing 
you from lifting top. Im going to really really do my best to get it in a vice and straighten it out as best as possible. 




The rear window frame has a good amount of rust / little bit of rot even perhaps. i guess im going to wirewheel it down spray it with rust converter and then topcoat with a good black rustoleum. Seems as though i guess now i ALSO should be changing the rear window gasket as a now or never type deal? Or is this easy to do after a new top is on if i needed to. 

This car is killing me slowly......lol


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Hey all.
> 
> So, the thursday deadline is seeming more and more un-reachable for me. :thumbdown: working sat. and sunday has been kicking the heck out of my body to the point where
> i physcally just cannot work on the car by the time i get back from working at about 6-7 pm. With that said, this weekend was quite unfortunately extremely un-productive.
> ...


That looks to be the Strut mount,, but the strut is on upside down, the thin piston rod goes down.

Rear window? Get the Gasket do it once and forget it.

Oil every pivot and work it in when the frame is Nude......

Other wise don't cut any headliner snap you will need it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Cool thanks! the strut was actually mounted correctly. it was just the way i took the photo that showed it that way. But anyhow, 
I will most deff oil the HECK out of the frame and then probably use some good white lithium grease in all of the pivot points. 

Im not sure what you mean about headliner snap.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Cool thanks! the strut was actually mounted correctly. it was just the way i took the photo that showed it that way. But anyhow,
> I will most deff oil the HECK out of the frame and then probably use some good white lithium grease in all of the pivot points.
> 
> Im not sure what you mean about headliner snap.


Snap Strap,,,, typoed..............


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

You box arrived on time?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> You box arrived on time?


Yes i got it !!!!!!! Thanks so much man. I put it all on the head yesterday and hopefully i'll be dropping the head on tonight!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

All - 

I found this post by Tolu from a few months back. 

_" Torque in steps, several, er, many steps, follow the pattern shown in Bentley page 3-20, Fig. 4-18. Bottom of the range on most 1/2” wrenches is 20 ft. lbs., use that for a first step.
Use 35 ft. lbs. for the second step, then to 43 ft. lbs.
Take a 10 minute or more break after the 43 ft. lb. step, repeat the pulls to 43 ft. lb. Then add the 1/2 or (2) 1/4 turns.
I see that Bentley specifies only two torque steps, 30 and 43, no rest and repeat 43, well, whatever, you choose. I may well be being more AR and fastidious than necessary, when torquing I'm happy to do so.

About the torquing pattern, the pattern shown by the numbers, the numbers shown are not at all critical, the pattern is crucial. In fact it might be beneficial to vary the numbers between steps, I doubt it can hurt.
HUH? What is tolu on about now?
Here are alternate possible patterns, all follow the same zig zag pattern, they are just inverted and/or mirrored.
1, 2, 5, 6, 3, 4, 9, 10, 7, 8.
2, 1, 4, 3, 6, 5, 8, 7, 10, 9.
Or, Bentley pattern shows starting in the center, we will always do that, 1 is near side, pattern diagonals right from 2 to 3, zig zag follows.
We can and maybe should start the next sequence center far side, diagonal left, then zig zag." _

Im a bit lost, as this is the torque pattern i find all of the internet.........

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a349/phantasma4405/torqueorder.jpg

Which makes sense to me, as its zig zag- from the inside out. Why would i want to work my way across the top, and then the bottom from right to left?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> All -
> 
> I found this post by Tolu from a few months back.
> 
> ...


Explained to me as a Tadpole, Zig zag places the head as tight from the middle out as that assists in getting a possible warpage out.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So last night prior to starting work took a real artistic shot. :screwy:



Once i was doing being a weirdo I got to wrenching. Received my new radiator. Got the new coolant sensor in it. 
FINALLY located my missing magnetic tray from when i took everything off of the head. Got the new fuel rail ( Thanks Cajunspike!) , 
injectors, injector harness rail and all that junk bolted back onto the head. Got the intake manifold torqued to proper spec. 
Installed the exhaust manifold studs and called for a second set of hands to drop the head on the block. 

SHEESH do i hate stretch bolts. That last 1/2 turn is a nervewracking feeling. 



Andddd the heads on. Started degreasing the screen in the valve cover with totally awesome. Thats been soaking since last night so it should come nice
and clean when i come back to it tonight. 




Tonight when i get home im going to 

1.pick up the new front caliper and line for the pass. side ( old caliper was shot ). 
2.Going to finish cleaning, and get a nice coat of wrinkle black on the valve cover. 
3.Start installing the timing belt , new tensioner, etc etc. Hopefully this goes fairly quick. 

My concerns of now are that, i need to drop the sway bar and get this exhaust manifold bolted up so that i can call the back of the engine a done deal............but its making me nervous. I dont know HOW the heck im going to get the manifold up in from the bottom being as its so big. What will the car
need to be like 6' off the ground in front??? Im a moron for not dropping it in and letting it hang before putting the head back but i am NOT taking the head back off the car so im going to need to get this done some other way. 

Im expecting the convertible top to arrive today, so i guess i'll start watching the " movie " that i ordered with it and see how detailed they are in their directions.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

It isn't that had when you have the car in the air. 
I have installed and removed 3 cracked manifolds,

Now for the exhaust I left the bottom studs off, hung the mani on the top bolts and held on with a loose nut.
Then I installed the top studs...

But I used the "Saturn Studs" that had a hex headed driver end.


So much easier to install and get tight.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> It isn't that had when you have the car in the air.
> I have installed and removed 3 cracked manifolds,
> 
> Now for the exhaust I left the bottom studs off, hung the mani on the top bolts and held on with a loose nut.
> ...


I wasnt able to get a hold of these unfortunately before putting the head on. A friend of mine was storing a monstrous amount of hardware from his friends exhaust shop so I had standard studs available to me, and free so i used an ample amount of never-seize and put them in. I could see the stocker manifolds being a Piece of cake to install compared to this monstrosity of a header! obviously with the car on the lift it would be probably not that complicated, but im working in a garage on my back. getting it up higher than a few feet may not be all too possible i'll have to do the best i can, while attempting to be somewhat safe! 

I know dropping the sway bar completely will make it easier i need to figure out how to do that tonight.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

I think they were but 5 dollars at NAPA..... Napa is beginning to be my local go to source...


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Swaybar removal is easy. Just a few screws on each side. Installation is a bit of a b**** but if you can get a second set of hand to hold it, you will be fine. 

Just tilt the header on its side, slide it under, bolt it up, bolt up the swaybar and you're done. Shouldn't be too bad..hopefully!

You mentioned needing a few parts when I PM'ed you last. A cabby just arrived in a junkyard close by that is in descent shape. Do you still need any parts? Sidemarkers are all cracked though


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> Swaybar removal is easy. Just a few screws on each side. Installation is a bit of a b**** but if you can get a second set of hand to hold it, you will be fine.
> 
> Just tilt the header on its side, slide it under, bolt it up, bolt up the swaybar and you're done. Shouldn't be too bad..hopefully!
> 
> You mentioned needing a few parts when I PM'ed you last. A cabby just arrived in a junkyard close by that is in descent shape. Do you still need any parts? Sidemarkers are all cracked though


Brian, napa is deff. awesome. Unfortunately around my parts There are two napa's. .Neither of which are close to me AT all, and half the time what i need they need to order........so I may as well order it online for cheaper. Its unfortunate lol. 

I got the sway bar down last night. as for the header........its one of the CAT delete headers similar to a raceland. See photo's on the previous page.....its REALLY long and will not go in 
1. in its natural position straight up
2. sideways

It seems the back ( outlet side ) of it needs to be almost perfectly vertical, with the block side flange facing the sky to go in which means the car is going to need to get REALLY high up.........which i really didnt want to do given the fact that im using a jack but it is what it is. 

Didnt take any photo's last night, but got a decent amount done i guess. 

1. Painted valve cover with wrinkle paint .
2. picked up alternator and front caliper. installed said caliper. 
3. Installed timing belt. 
4. Crawled under the car with the intention of doing the PS pump.......stared at it and its bracketry for 10 minutes...and 
laughed to myself before moving onto the back of the car because i have NO CLUE how this thing bolts back up! lol.
5. popped wheel and drum off of the driver side rear.........started attacking the lower shock bolt and thereeeeeeee
it is. 

** THE FAMOUS SEIZED IN LOWER SHOCK BOLT ** . I had next to no swing at the back side of it, but heated it to high hell and gave it some turns from the front and smacks from the rear.... no luck. I was officially defeated last night. Normally when i come into this type of situation on other cars i use a GOOD air chisel from the rear with some good heat and drive it right out. I dont have that convenience here. 

How have you guy's gone about this? I know im not the only one to replace rear struts after they've been on the car and in use for about 225k miles.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Additionally! When i put the timing belt on, i tensioned it i can almost twist it half way with my fingers......i CAN if i really try hard. Too tight? 

Regardless, once i was done i spun the engine through 3 times by hand before re-checking everything. 
The VERY edge of the timing belt is sitting pretty much dead flush with the OUTSIDE face of the sprockets ( all 3 ). 

Can anyone tell me why this is happening? Is there a way to adjust the timing belt tracking on these cars?


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*Crawled under the car with the intention of doing the PS pump.......stared at it and its bracketry for 10 minutes...and 
laughed to myself before moving onto the back of the car because i have NO CLUE how this thing bolts back up! lol.
*

The Power steering Pump is held on by 3 brackets.
The main Bracket has 2 hidden bolts, and 3 others.... one is long and nutted (think Pivot) and the belt tensioner.
With the Rear *Everybody... In the FAQ's page 3 post 75 I have a pictures of how to remove your power steering pump.
*
The front bracket is 2 piece which is held on by the long pivot bolt, then the Tensioner followed by 2 13mm bolts on the engine bracket.
You can remove the Rear Bracket to do the t-stat cover or flush, and the Pump will be held in place under tension by the front mount.....
So if you are removing the p/s pump, nows the time to replace the t-stat and flush and back flush the cooling system...
Yep, there is a how do I do that on page 3 of the FAQ's post 75 as well. 


*
5. popped wheel and drum off of the driver side rear.........started attacking the lower shock bolt and thereeeeeeee
it is. 

** THE FAMOUS SEIZED IN LOWER SHOCK BOLT ** . I had next to no swing at the back side of it, but heated it to high hell and gave it some turns from the front and smacks from the rear.... no luck. I was officially defeated last night. Normally when i come into this type of situation on other cars i use a GOOD air chisel from the rear with some good heat and drive it right out. I dont have that convenience here. 
How have you guy's gone about this? I know im not the only one to replace rear struts after they've been on the car and in use for about 225k miles.*


Yes it is a Pain in the ARSE.

You have a few options.
Cut the lower shock off then that will separate the shock from the mount so you can attack it.
Cut the nut and head of the bolt off at the bracket (flush) Then using a Crescent Wrench Bend the bracket edges off the bolt.
Saw the screw out between the Mount frame and the Rubber Bushing. (try this by hand holding the hacksaw blade by hand....tough work).
Having a Sawzall helps and I have had to do that to my last 3 Cabby's, I have torched it as well to separate the shock body from the mount...
Then I had plenty of room for the sawzall.

Again, EVERYBODY, on page 3 of the FAQ's post 75 I have a helpful hint on rear shock bolts as well as a how do I replace the rear shocks with pictures.
The Key is to MUMMIFY that bolt when you go back, Wrap it from head to threads with Teflon Tape, then slather Never-Seize on it prior to replacing. 
This prevents the bolt from Seizing in the mount for the next time you have to play with it......

On the Mummify Bolts thread I show you the after.... that is the second time I replaced the rear shocks and the bolt was a real pleasure to remove.

Remember to do a FAQ with pics, it takes 2-to-3 times as long for me to do the job, why so newb's and old'ens can see it prior.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Additionally! When i put the timing belt on, i tensioned it i can almost twist it half way with my fingers......i CAN if i really try hard. Too tight?
> 
> Regardless, once i was done i spun the engine through 3 times by hand before re-checking everything.
> The VERY edge of the timing belt is sitting pretty much dead flush with the OUTSIDE face of the sprockets ( all 3 ).
> ...


Well that is possibly a couple of things but really sounds normal.

Tensioner bolt is bent and cocking the tensioner to cause it.
Sounds a wee bit too tight, as I usually can go 1/2 but not 3/4 of a twist.
If you hear it "Singing" too tight. (that is after you start the car.. and it may not start "singing" for a couple of weeks.


----------



## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *Crawled under the car with the intention of doing the PS pump.......stared at it and its bracketry for 10 minutes...and
> laughed to myself before moving onto the back of the car because i have NO CLUE how this thing bolts back up! lol.
> *
> 
> ...


Thanks!!! All of these options were actually going through my head. I Thought of a sawsall, but honestly i dont have a " small" sawsall, i have a real deal milwaulkee and dont really have the room for it, or a real sawsall blade to get in there! 
Was also considering the torch option, but I hate the though of accidently messing up the stock mount on both sides and having to break out the welder to fix it. 
I think i MAY wind up cutting the bottom of the body of the " eye " of the lower shock and prying it up and out. Either way, the bolt will not defeat me! 

As for the power steering pump, your pictures are the best help i've received!!!! My problem is, is that i think im just missing a bunch of bolts. when i got the car it was only Half installed really, as the old pump seized so the PO disconnected the belt and kind of left it only half bolted in. It was also the first thing i removed from the car, so my memory is well faded on that pump at this point. im going to go through all of your pics in that thread again and try to get it figured out. 



briano1234 said:


> Well that is possibly a couple of things but really sounds normal.
> 
> Tensioner bolt is bent and cocking the tensioner to cause it.
> Sounds a wee bit too tight, as I usually can go 1/2 but not 3/4 of a twist.
> If you hear it "Singing" too tight. (that is after you start the car.. and it may not start "singing" for a couple of weeks.


Never thought of the tensioner bolt. Im going to have to get the old one out as i didnt both installing the new one when I put the head back on. the old one looked good. Is there sapposed to be a washer BEHIND the tensioner? or the back of the tensioner ( inner portion ), goes tight against the head? I know all about the belt singing, i overtightened on my 1.6D the first time i did it and had to deal with that annoyance! lol. I always think " well, its going to stretch then be fine" .....until it doesnt.


----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> T
> 
> Never thought of the tensioner bolt. Im going to have to get the old one out as i didnt both installing the new one when I put the head back on. the old one looked good. Is there sapposed to be a washer BEHIND the tensioner? or the back of the tensioner ( inner portion ), goes tight against the head? I know all about the belt singing, i overtightened on my 1.6D the first time i did it and had to deal with that annoyance! lol. I always think " well, its going to stretch then be fine" .....until it doesnt.


I have seen the Passenger side mount go, and on one of the loud bags of the engine free-falling it bent the stud as it is actually a studly, and not a bolty....

The only way to be sure is to place a square around it.
Now with it in place you can place a square to the Tensioner and see if it is square, or attach a plumb line to it from the top center of the tensioner to see if it is running square as well.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> I have seen the Passenger side mount go, and on one of the loud bags of the engine free-falling it bent the stud as it is actually a studly, and not a bolty....
> 
> The only way to be sure is to place a square around it.
> Now with it in place you can place a square to the Tensioner and see if it is square, or attach a plumb line to it from the top center of the tensioner to see if it is running square as well.


Absolutely can see this happening. I think rather than messing with the figuring out if its square im just going to double nut the old stud and pull it out and replace it. Will probably take less time to do it this way being as i want to de-tension the belt just a smidge anyway. :thumbup: 

Brian, any tips on wiggling the exhaust header in? I know you've done this.....Did you do it on the ground? Obviously on a lift would be ALOT easier / a cake-walk but i dont have that luxery right now. How high do you figure the car will need to come up? 3-4 feet????


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

> ** THE FAMOUS SEIZED IN LOWER SHOCK BOLT ** . I had next to no swing at the back side of it, but heated it to high hell and gave it some turns from the front and smacks from the rear.... no luck. I was officially defeated last night. Normally when i come into this type of situation on other cars i use a GOOD air chisel from the rear with some good heat and drive it right out. I dont have that convenience here.
> How have you guy's gone about this? I know im not the only one to replace rear struts after they've been on the car and in use for about 225k miles.


While mine weren't stuck after 138,000 miles, I still needed to drive them out using a small dead-blow hammer and punch with a jack underneath providing slight compression.



briano1234 said:


> Again, EVERYBODY, on page 3 of the FAQ's post 75 I have a helpful hint on rear shock bolts as well as a how do I replace the rear shocks with.


This is my method: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ReplacingRearShocks.pdf , which removes the whole assembly before complete dismantling (which I found to be easier) and includes installation of new bushings.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> While mine weren't stuck after 138,000 miles, I still needed to drive them out using a small dead-blow hammer and punch with a jack underneath providing slight compression.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my method: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ReplacingRearShocks.pdf , which removes the whole assembly before complete dismantling (which I found to be easier) and includes installation of new bushings.


Thanks for that wonderful DIY Kamz. :thumbup: I actually while googling on my phone last night went and studied it for a bit. Extremely thorough. :thumbup::thumbup: Unfortunately. The beast within is going to need to come out for this job...........and im going to need to put all of my backyard 
mechanic skills to work. 

Girlfriend graduates tomorrow, and tonight is a wash. Work will proceed on friday night MAYBE tomorrow night. 

*The deadline has officially been missed* but i was OH SO CLOSE!!!!!! its okay.........itll be a late delivery. Hopefully it wont take me any longer than 2 weeks to finish this dang thing already and get it registered and insured and in the safe hands of its new owner.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Absolutely can see this happening. I think rather than messing with the figuring out if its square im just going to double nut the old stud and pull it out and replace it. Will probably take less time to do it this way being as i want to de-tension the belt just a smidge anyway. :thumbup:
> 
> Brian, any tips on wiggling the exhaust header in? I know you've done this.....Did you do it on the ground? Obviously on a lift would be ALOT easier / a cake-walk but i dont have that luxery right now. How high do you figure the car will need to come up? 3-4 feet????





kamzcab86 said:


> While mine weren't stuck after 138,000 miles, I still needed to drive them out using a small dead-blow hammer and punch with a jack underneath providing slight compression.
> 
> 
> 
> This is my method: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ReplacingRearShocks.pdf , which removes the whole assembly before complete dismantling (which I found to be easier) and includes installation of new bushings.




When I replaced my cracked Manifold I broke 2 studs, so to the machine shop.
While I was waiting for the head I replaced the power steering rack.. 
I had the Car Jacked up at least 28 inches as I had my Jack stands at about 24 inches then I placed the jack stands on a 2 foot section of 2 4X4's that were screwed and glued together as a base for my stands….

Picking up the head the shop guy clued me in to the Saturn Style Drivable Studs as replacement, as he was a Rabbit Aware person, he said that when he placed a header on his diesel, he removed all the studs and only replaced the top ones fully seating them.

Going up with the header, he hung the gasket on the studs, then the header and from there he drove in the bottom studs then tightened….
That worked for me as it was a Pacesetter header that went nicely between the Sway and the hole. The Pace Setter was 2 piece so that it was a painless install that I only had to run to the muffler guy to heat the pipes up so we could bend the 
header away from the sway bar….. and a little to the right to center it.

90 Cab Manual…


*Now for Kammy's how-to, which is fine, there is a step or 3 missing.
When trying to smack out the bolt, place the Nut back on by 3 threads so you don't "mushroom" the bolt as if that happens Saw or Cut you Must.*

In Kammy's case her's wasn't subjected to the Road conditions that My Cabbies had one was from New Hampshire, the other Washington, and Penn. So they were really Rust bound and no amount of Punching worked… I could see the rubber mount compress and expand back with each blow. My 81 Diesel had 5 years in Illinois Salt and winters prior to me installing a new set of shocks. This is the one I had to cut out the bolts with a hacksaw blade taped on one side by and as my hack saw frame wasn't small enough and my single blade handle was too short..

Now I got my Grinder out on one and used it to grind the lower part of the shock off.
This allowed me to separate the Shock out of the way so that I could get my Sawzall with a short blade more swing room…

I had my muffler guy torch the nut and the head off of one of my Cabbies.
that worked well as I could bend the mount lip, get one side of the bolt free, the using a hack saw I cut the rubber out of the way.. ( I had loaned my Sawzall out….)
Then I could pull the bolt out of the brake side of the mount.

If you look at the new one you will see that the bushing has a split in it that allows water to migrate in, over the years I remember my Dad saying Turn the bushing so the split is at the bottom… But I have found that Mummfying the thing was the better way to go. I have been cussing and fussing with them since about 1985.....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

I think this may be one of brain's but i have never seen it in all of the searching ive done on TOP installs so i figured i'd leave it here
for you folks. 

http://www.atomicalex.com/extra_content/VW Conv Tops2.pdf


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I think this may be one of brain's but i have never seen it in all of the searching ive done on TOP installs so i figured i'd leave it here
> for you folks.
> 
> http://www.atomicalex.com/extra_content/VW Conv Tops2.pdf


It was the first full top install ever, Headliner, pad, and Top skin and yes it was "one of *Brain's*" Co-effort.

I am sure it is linked in Cabby-info.com

The ones linked in the FAQ's are revisions of the original, and include additional information that I never put in the first draft.
Shoot I keep adding things all the time.

My Make your own cables include the mk1 early frames now.
There is the make your own padding and cover thread.
There is installing your headliner where I show you the improvements to make yours last and not come unglued.
Just to name a few.

While it is good, it isn't full of the updates. If you want a treat, install your top using Forrest Kings word doc, I think Ron has a link... 
Yep he do, *Section 6 subsection 61 *
If you want the tips that I have found,  need I say more.

Briano


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> It was the first full top install ever, Headliner, pad, and Top skin and yes it was "one of *Brain's*" Co-effort.
> 
> I am sure it is linked in Cabby-info.com
> 
> ...


'Where is forrest kings word doc. ? 
I dont like that reflections site most of the links have been broken. There are plenty of links there to your pages though!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

briano1234 said:


> I am sure it is linked in Cabby-info.com


The frame removal section is.



Derekxj said:


> 'Where is forrest kings word doc. ?
> I dont like that reflections site most of the links have been broken. There are plenty of links there to your pages though!


Direct link: http://www.geek-out.com/cheerleadermobile/cabtop.doc .

Forrest King was the first (IIRC) to have written up a how-to guide for replacing the top... ages ago, at that.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

kamzcab86 said:


> The frame removal section is.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am thinking this is about right. After Consuming Beeers (yep a lot of them) then the weather.... fighting the rear cable,,then pounding the cable in with clothes pins.... Got me thinking.
So the Next one was easier a wee bit, then the next, followed by about 12 others I think and 5 of them are mine.....

I will get around to updating, I have well over 300 may be closer to 600 with the top and headliner photos....
So The first few tops was take a pic, take apart, take another pic, take apart...repeat often.... then after 3 days, I had to finish....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> I am thinking this is about right. After Consuming Beeers (yep a lot of them) then the weather.... fighting the rear cable,,then pounding the cable in with clothes pins.... Got me thinking.
> So the Next one was easier a wee bit, then the next, followed by about 12 others I think and 5 of them are mine.....
> 
> I will get around to updating, I have well over 300 may be closer to 600 with the top and headliner photos....
> So The first few tops was take a pic, take apart, take another pic, take apart...repeat often.... then after 3 days, I had to finish....


Barely got anything done this weekend. Work killed me and by the time i got home each night i could barely move....let alone handle the mental anguish of dealing with the rear brakes which i started friday night. WHICH brings me to friday night, and several questions..........

FIRST thing i did was cut the eyelet on the bottom of the shock. got the old shock and strut out. I then turned to my new out of the box rear strut mount kit. 

Came with a whole bunch of crap! lol. 

the rear coilovers, as they shipped ( used) , only one of them had a white bumpstop which appeared to be cut somewhat.......i opted to just take this off completely.....did i screw up? Bad idea running no bumpstop? 

I then attempted to somehow figure out the assembly of the under-side, and top side strut mount assembly. What a catastrophe. 

I googled and googled checked here, cabby info, etc etc. It seemed that using the coilover and the new parts, it differed somewhat from how the original went together. i DID get it together, wether its 110% correct or not i do not know. I guess i'll wait to drive it and listen for clunks? 

Also.............heres a real ignorant question but i cant figure it out. Im used to lifting up trucks not lowering cars lol. 
If i crank the threaded portion on A coilover UP ( which is putting more tension on the spring obviously. does this lower, or raise the car? 
It would be my guess that it would RAISE the car but the rear's are SUCH a pain in the arse to adjust and get that goofy wrench in there that i didnt want to waste my time. 

I then moved onto these TINY little rear brakes, i've done drum brakes so many times........and these caused several tools to get thrown friday night. 
I replaced the wheel cyl, and everytime i got the top big spring on that lays ontop of that bar.........it shot the opposite end of the wheel cylinder right out. Spring and everything. I tried about 10x before i just went home and called it quits. I dont know if i have the order of installation incorrect, or what but its just not seeming to work. 

Any and all help appreciated!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Barely got anything done this weekend. Work killed me and by the time i got home each night i could barely move....let alone handle the mental anguish of dealing with the rear brakes which i started friday night. WHICH brings me to friday night, and several questions..........
> 
> FIRST thing i did was cut the eyelet on the bottom of the shock. got the old shock and strut out. I then turned to my new out of the box rear strut mount kit.
> 
> ...


For the Rear Brakes I have 2 things that assist me. I Place the Shoes on with the Keeper to hold it to the Cylinder. I attach the upper springs first.

I have also been known to use a Piece of Wire Looped on the Notch of the Wheel Cylinders together as I am putting the Rear Spring. 

Three Helpful Diagrams.





Don't make this Mistake.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Very helpful brian. Thanks alot for that. Going to try and get the rear brakes together tonight with the help of these diagrams. 
Hopefully the cursing and tool throwing ends here lol. 

Do you have any such helpful diagrams for the rear upper strut mounting? 

Anybody with coilovers can answer my dummy- coilover related Questions? :facepalm:


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Do you have any such helpful diagrams for the rear upper strut mounting?


I've got an exploded illustration of all rear suspension components here: http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ReplacingRearShocks.pdf , page 2. Upper strut mount installation using new KYB bushings is on page 5.



Derekxj said:


> the rear coilovers, as they shipped ( used) , only one of them had a white bumpstop which appeared to be cut somewhat.......i opted to just take this off completely.....did i screw up? Bad idea running no bumpstop?


I don't know anything about coilovers, but I would think they would need a bump stop like any other strut assembly, and I would think each brand has their own bump stop style.



Derekxj said:


> Also.............heres a real ignorant question but i cant figure it out. Im used to lifting up trucks not lowering cars lol.
> If i crank the threaded portion on A coilover UP ( which is putting more tension on the spring obviously. does this lower, or raise the car?
> It would be my guess that it would RAISE the car but the rear's are SUCH a pain in the arse to adjust and get that goofy wrench in there that i didnt want to waste my time.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks Kamz. Wonderful DIY by the way. Brian, that little bit of info helped tremendously. I was able to wrap up the brakes on both sides last night. 

Now im wondering if I should put the new wheel bearings back onto the old spindles. :/ 

Anyhow, started on with the rear coils again. Now i got the principal behind them atleast. screw them up ( pun not intended ) , and it compresses the spring, and raises the car. 
screw them down towards the ground and the spring decompresses , or is under LESS tension, and the car is lowered. 

NOW with that in mind..............I didnt " pre-adjust " the coilovers because A. i have no clue what to pre-adjust them to, and B. I didnt think about it really. 

Now my issue is, the threaded " nuts" are all the way down and it took me about a half hour to bring them up maybe 4 threads. There is NO room in there for the stupid spanner wrench.............the silly springs are also compressed quite nicely without even having the weight of the car on them that with gloves and rags i cant spin them up by hand either. 

How do i proceed with all of this?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks Kamz. Wonderful DIY by the way. Brian, that little bit of info helped tremendously. I was able to wrap up the brakes on both sides last night.
> 
> Now im wondering if I should put the new wheel bearings back onto the old spindles. :/
> 
> ...


Take the pressure off the shock, let if fall... that loosens the spring tension. Once the tension is off the nuts should be easier. One other thought is to take the bottom bolt out of the shock. This will force the spring to release its grip. But then again clearance may be an issue....

If you do the rear brakes on a new to you car, then doing the bearings (about 25 bucks per side) will mean that when you button it up you are done for a few years. Isn't that worth the effort now. Oh and make sure that you tap the drum off the car with a hammer to hear it RING, if it thunks then it is Cracked. 

I had one crack at the bolt holes... Didn't see it, but I heard it...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Take the pressure off the shock, let if fall... that loosens the spring tension. Once the tension is off the nuts should be easier. One other thought is to take the bottom bolt out of the shock. This will force the spring to release its grip. But then again clearance may be an issue....
> 
> If you do the rear brakes on a new to you car, then doing the bearings (about 25 bucks per side) will mean that when you button it up you are done for a few years. Isn't that worth the effort now. Oh and make sure that you tap the drum off the car with a hammer to hear it RING, if it thunks then it is Cracked.
> 
> I had one crack at the bolt holes... Didn't see it, but I heard it...


Yeah i actually just last night got the passenger side stock strut CUT out, so now that coilover is ready to go in as well. Im going to try adjusting them to a somewhat desirable height while JUST the bottoms are bolted in as you suggested. This is, if some experienced coil-over connoisseur could aid me in some height setting tips! 

Last night i finished that rear strut removal. came onto the front, bolted in the power steering pump. 

( I cant find the really long bolt that goes through that entire AC bracket. Can anyone help me out with the size of this thing if you have one laying around or something? 
I need to pick it up so i can finish the PS pump install. 

I put all the PS hoses and lines back in. 

Placed the oil deflector back ontop of the cam.......released some tension on the timing belt as it was way too tight. Have it set perfectly now, but the tracking issue is still bugging me. I will post pictures tomorrow probably of this. 

Lastly, I went to go bolt on the two pulleys to the crank sprocket, with those 4 allens. tightened two of them just fine..........went to tighten the third and wouldnt you know..........spin spin spin spin....no tighten. GREAT! Looks like a stripped these holes on the crank sprocket. The 4th didnt feel that good either but didnt spin AS freely as the 2nd. Can someone tell me if that sprocket is threaded all the way through? If so im just giong to use a LITTLE bit of a longer bolt. If not i may drench those two 
in some red locktite.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*I cant find the really long bolt that goes through that entire AC bracket. Can anyone help me out with the size of this thing if you have one laying around or something?
I need to pick it up so i can finish the PS pump install.

*

Are you Talking about the long Pivot bolt? or the Bolt that holds the AC bracket through the water pump into the block.

The Pivot bolt is M8X140 N 10011301 Plus Washer and Lock nut.


The Crank gear is Threaded all the way through...IIRC. The issue is that too long of a bolt will scrape and bind on the Front Oil Seal Housing/Oil Pan lip if you exceed the length of the pulley.
I would just get a new Gear... You don't want that pulley to possibly wobble.... 049105263C


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *I cant find the really long bolt that goes through that entire AC bracket. Can anyone help me out with the size of this thing if you have one laying around or something?
> I need to pick it up so i can finish the PS pump install.
> 
> *
> ...


It was infact the pivot bolt that i needed the size for...........Did you seriously have that size off of the top of your head?????

you *really are* a walking cabby-bible. Screw the bentley manual......why not write your own Briano Manual? lol


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> It was infact the pivot bolt that i needed the size for...........Did you seriously have that size off of the top of your head?????
> 
> you *really are* a walking cabby-bible. Screw the bentley manual......why not write your own Briano Manual? lol


No I had to look it up..

That gear is about 20 bucks at GAP, and I found a FEBI at ECS for 10. Junk-Yard is going to be cheaper.. if not FREE?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> No I had to look it up..
> 
> That gear is about 20 bucks at GAP, and I found a FEBI at ECS for 10. Junk-Yard is going to be cheaper.. if not FREE?


As much as i would love to change that sprocket with a new one just to resolve the stripped bolt hole issue..... ( and change the front main seal that i didnt touch ), 
Doesnt it then need a new bolt as well? I would then have to get the timing belt BACK off ( not that its that difficult just a pain ), and retime it all. 

How difficult of a job is it removing the sprocket, changing the seal and retorquing the new one? How do you hold the engine while achieving the proper torque setting?

Additionally.......Where did you look it up? I'd love to have a resource for bolt sizes and such.....as i hvae so many missing at this point!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*As much as i would love to change that sprocket with a new one just to resolve the stripped bolt hole issue..... ( and change the front main seal that i didnt touch ),
Doesnt it then need a new bolt as well? I would then have to get the timing belt BACK off ( not that its that difficult just a pain ), and retime it all.

How difficult of a job is it removing the sprocket, changing the seal and retorquing the new one? How do you hold the engine while achieving the proper torque setting?*

Well the Crank bolt un-torques easily with a breaker bar...and retorques the same. At least on a correctly operating machine.
Replacing the Gear is Easy as it Just Place it in TIME Loosen the Belt, and "pop" it off. 

Replacing the Front Seal is a nice touch, if yours isn't leaking ok, either way... better safe than sorry. But use a dollop of RTV at the corners of the Oil Pan and block.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *As much as i would love to change that sprocket with a new one just to resolve the stripped bolt hole issue..... ( and change the front main seal that i didnt touch ),
> Doesnt it then need a new bolt as well? I would then have to get the timing belt BACK off ( not that its that difficult just a pain ), and retime it all.
> 
> How difficult of a job is it removing the sprocket, changing the seal and retorquing the new one? How do you hold the engine while achieving the proper torque setting?*
> ...


111 Ft Lbs on that bolt according to cabby info. How would one hold the engine back from that much force while torquing??? 
Screwdriver through the peep hole in the bellhousing and into the tooth of the flywheel????? That is a LOT of torque, especially for a stretch bolt.....


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> 111 Ft Lbs on that bolt according to cabby info. How would one hold the engine back from that much force while torquing???
> Screwdriver through the peep hole in the bellhousing and into the tooth of the flywheel????? That is a LOT of torque, especially for a stretch bolt.....


That is the Same mistake my cars previous owner made.
There are 2 separate torques for 2 different style of bolts.

The 6 sided with washer (HEX) bolt takes 111 ft/lbs.
The 12 Pointed Socket washerless requires 66 ft/lbs.

If you do the 6torque on the 12pt , see my Farging Won't Start Thread.
Be careful, be very very careful.....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That is the Same mistake my cars previous owner made.
> There are 2 separate torques for 2 different style of bolts.
> 
> The 6 sided with washer (HEX) bolt takes 111 ft/lbs.
> ...


GOT IT!!!!! I mis-read Kammy's site. Thanks for straightening me out!! 


So last night, with the help of your wonderful writeup brian i removed my headliner. Went fairly smoothly. 
Just need to unbend those little prongs in the back. I hope the installation goes equally as smooth! 

I also just took some quick inventory on some bolts / parts i need to order. Im about to order the front sprocket / seal and new 12 point bolt. Im confused as to why they are showing a " cover " for the " front crank seal ". I didnt even notice a cover on the engine? i thought the seal was pressed into the block. Can someone straighten me out? 



While im at it i figured i may as well change the ONLY other seal on this side of the engine that i didnt touch............the intermediate shaft seal. How big of a problem is this one to do? do i need a puller, because i know on my 1.6 D i couldnt get a puller in there and had to actually pry bar / tap with hammer it for a good long while to slowly wiggle it back and forth and off the shaft. complete PITA it was. The frame rail horn was in the way on my rabbit. Writeup's / techniques for this one? 

Anyway, here's some pictures..... Going to get on the phone with raceland ina few hours here and discuss with them the rear coilovers and adjusting them and so forth so i can hopefully finish up that job and get the rear end back together this weekend. 






(not sure what this little strap here goes to.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

The Front and Rear Seals are in "Carriers" made of aluminum. The Bolt to the block, and to the Oil pan. This is why they can cross thread, and strip. Hand Tight and Torque correctly.


One Last trick I started to use a few years back is PVC Pipe connectors to Seat Seals, They are round, You can get them in a Variety of sizes and usually don't distort the seal face.



If I look at your headliner pic, that cut off strap in the middle of the FRAME both passenger side and driver side are the Straps that come off the top Through the Pad cover and pad, and Rivet there. This strap pulls the top in as you close it to prevent "pillowing" out the back when folded.







Using a Zip-tie to secure it when "pop" rivet tool broke.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks brian. Going to get the cover seal then as well and just remove the entire cover, WITH the seal intact and swap the seal on the bench. That should be easier anyhow. 

So that strap, will be on my NEW top correct?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> So that strap, will be on my NEW top correct?


Yes... You will have to CUT a hole in your padding cover for it to pass through.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Yes... You will have to CUT a hole in your padding cover for it to pass through.


Excellent thanks alot for the information and your' awesome writeup on the headliner. It was missing a few little bits and pieces regarding removal but there was more than enough there to make my way through it. Im hoping by the close of the weekend to atleast have the new headliner in.......at a minimum! :thumbup: 

Going to post a seperate thread here in the MK1 forum i think asking about the rear coilover issues im having.....i want this dang thing on the ground i think it may get more noticed like that from the coilover familiar peeps.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

if any of you EA guys are interested........

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Volkswagen-G...76?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=item4aeadc2524


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

hey everyone. had a long intermission this week. 

I figured out that my timing belt tracking issue was a BAD tensioner BRAND NEW right out of the box. replaced that......and gotter done. 

when i pulled the sprocket, i was surprised to find out why the timing was off!! SOMEONE was in here. helicoiled the threaded holes in the sprocket that i thought was my fault for stripping, 
and then i also realized the seal behind the crank seal cover was replaced to. but wait!!!!!! If your going to do a job half - assed said some not so able mechanic, WHYNOT leave 2 of the 5 bolts holding 
the cover on???? I couldnt believe it. 

Well, thats all buttoned up, timing belt is back on and taken care of and now im absolutely killing myself with these rear brakes. Had my friend come by, whos the best mechanic i know. He said that he 
thought the reason i couldnt get the new drums on was because the shoes looked incorrect compared to the originals. SO, i went out today, got new shoes and new wheel cylinders. The new wheel cylinders from the parts store were deff shorter than the OTHER new ones i got, thought between that and the correct shoes i would be in business? NOPE. 

can ANYBODY help me here? this is really starting to become a problem because i cant get the back of the car finished without this obviously. 

does everything here look right? 

FYI, I cant get the OLD drums on either, so i assume the new drums i purchased are correct. Ive never in my life had this much of an issue doing BRAKES!!!!! :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:
Im basically about an 1/8 of an inch too proud of being able to put the drums on. They hangup on ONLY the wear portion of the shoe ( front or back , not both ). 




BRAKE CATASTROPHE!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

OHHHH sheared crank gear.

The issue is that your adjuster is all the way down. Push it up, and your shoes will suck in and the drum will fit.

The part in the yellow circle needs to be pushed up, and the shoes pushed in


Make sure that your shoes are correctly aligned to the wheel cylinder.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

And I thought only AAZ diesels suffered from the stripped crank nose syndrome...I guess a drugged up mechanic can do the same. 

Keep your head above the water, this thing is getting close :thumbup:


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Brian pointed out why the brakes are giving you hell. Push the wedge adjuster up and the shoes will come together. The purpose of the wedge is to gradually come lower as the shoes wear and take up slack.

On the crank gear, that's some crazy stuff. But many times the damage is from not having it lined up in the first place then rattling it down with an impact. I don't think these suffer from the same problems as a whole as the early 1.9D.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Brian...........GENIUS!!!!!! 

Cant thank you enough for posting up that response and photo's........It worked like a freaking charm. 
Everythings back together ( on one side anyway ), the nut on the outside ( bearing ) is BARELY tight enough to turn it off by my fingers and everything is still pretty dang tight spinning the drums. Im sure it'll all wear in but idk how much force is sapposed to be on that nut!! 

ANYHOW. 

As for all your comments on the crank nose....................

The ACTUAL nose of the CRANKSHAFT..............was perfectly fine. It was the little nub ON THE SPROCKET itself that sheared. 
Thats the weird part. I inspected the crank nose very closely and made sure it wasnt damaged.....which it wasnt. The new sprocket fit on perfectly and torqued nicely to the required 66 ft lbs ( using the new bolt ofcourse. ). Oh, and yes................ontop of forgetting 2-3 bolts on the existing cover plate, shearing the nub on the sprocket.............they also used helicoils in the old sprocket on the holes that i thought I personally stripped. 

New sprocket it on and torqued new seals.....timing belt is back on and all happy happy.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Brian...........GENIUS!!!!!!
> 
> Cant thank you enough for posting up that response and photo's........It worked like a freaking charm.
> Everythings back together ( on one side anyway ), the nut on the outside ( bearing ) is BARELY tight enough to turn it off by my fingers and everything is still pretty dang tight spinning the drums. Im sure it'll all wear in but idk how much force is sapposed to be on that nut!!


Glad it worked for you.

On the Axle nut, it should be tight enough to allow a free-spin, but tight enough that there is no wobble to the ring left right up or down.
It is all by feel. I think a lot of places say one complete rotation with applied force.
The Nut should be fully tightened to seat the Bearings then backed enough off to allow rotation without drag. Then Cotter pin it and your done.

Glad The Crank was but the sprocket. It is a Bitch when they place 111ft/lbs on a 66 ft/lb bolt....


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

flying_oliver said:


> And I thought only AAZ diesels suffered from the stripped crank nose syndrome...I guess a drugged up mechanic can do the same.


Or Putting 111 ft/lbs on a 66/ft/lbs bolt... Causing the Bolt to bottom out on the Crank, Bend the bolt on the end and strip the crank on removal.
See "Fagin Won't Start."



Not all PO's Suck, Just some have larger negative air displacement ratio's than others.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Or Putting 111 ft/lbs on a 66/ft/lbs bolt... Causing the Bolt to bottom out on the Crank, Bend the bolt on the end and strip the crank on removal.
> See "Fagin Won't Start."
> 
> 
> ...



Well ( and politely) said brian........I however am not so polite and have no problem saying...................

That some PO's should have all of their fingers broken for some of the extremely lazy, ignorant and flat out moronic shortcut's they take... :laugh:

Mistakes are one thing.............But when you take the crank seal housing cover OFF to replace the seal behind it............and then leave out 3 of the 5 bolts....
Im sorry, but its finger-breaking time! lol


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks again all, and to you Brian, for the thousandth time! Everything went together smoothly on the driver side brake wise. There is a good amount of drag, i think the nut is just tight enough to where
it needs to be.....no play at all, new bearings feel good etc etc. Now the pass. side will go together like a dream. So with all that said i then moved my attention to these dumb coilovers. 

Why cant this just be as simple as lifting a truck? Something ive done a million times in my mechanical life..............But noooooooo There has to be strut mounts and bushings and double nuts washers bolts 
funky shaped rubber mounts adjustments that dont make sense in my head......etc etc etc lol. None the less, I spoke with a good friend last night who's been in the VW scene for a real long time and he does ALOT 
of suspension work to all of his cars. 

He advised me, when he installs coilovers he typically flips them around. Finds the point where the spring has a tiny bit of tension on it.....IE: springs not flapping around anymore.....and then go about a 1/4" past that and that should be a decent initial setup. Now i dont know if im installing something wrong here, or what the deal is but by the time i installed the stupid spacer thing and the FIRST nut on the coilover ( on the bench), to hold everything together for install......even with the nuts wound all the way down to the very very bottom there was so much tension on the springs already i couldnt even turn the nuts by hand. 

I finally got so fed up........i set them so that theres about 2.75" of threads left below the nut, ( AKA to go lower ), and called it a night. It ALMOST seems that even at this point, the car might sit wayyy too low in the back, however the helper spring is SO COMPRESSED that it just doesnt seem right. 

Looking for some input from the pro's here, as usual! lol. :thumbup: :wave:

Didnt think i needed this little silver cap piece above the black top portion of the coilover, ( under the spacer) , so i removed it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Once again. Passenger side this time. WHY wont this drum fit on? Brian, i banged up the adjuter. All parts are identical to driver side, and to original. I measured drums. Everything. I just CANT get the drums on!!!!! Im ready to just pay someone to come finish this dumb brake job lol.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> Once again. Passenger side this time. WHY wont this drum fit on? Brian, i banged up the adjuter. All parts are identical to driver side, and to original. I measured drums. Everything. I just CANT get the drums on!!!!! Im ready to just pay someone to come finish this dumb brake job lol.


Just want to bump this, so hopefully it can actually be seen amongst the MASSIVE amounts of spamming this forum fell victim to. :thumbdown:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

AHHH my thread is back!!!!!!! 

Anyway so i REALLY need help with this brake issue. its been 2 weeks now almost since i made ANY decent progress on this car, 
and my friend's house where im keeping it.........well, he's starting to get antsy about it taking up garage space. Time to put this 
project into overdrive. 


Additionally. yet MORE timing belt issues! WOOOOHOOO. So. after realizing the tensioner from GAP had a wobble i directly attributed the belt riding on the edge of the sprocket to this. I purchased a NEW tensioner from local parts store. This one had no wobble at all. Belt on, tensioned. Mint right? 

NOPE! 

Rotated teh engine 4 times by hand and what do you know, now the belt is riding OFF of the sprocket on the outside!!!!!!!!! Im not sure if the part that sticks out of this NEW tensioner now sticks out TOO far, or if i have bigger problems of some sort. Bolt has been replaced im just really at a loss here. 





at this point ive now ordered the OEM style from GAP, which should be here tomorrow. I'll be able to time this car with my eyes closed by the time this is fixed. Tbelt on and off 4 times already! ugh


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Are you sure you don't have a washer behind the tensioner? And is the tensioner on the correct way? There are two smaller holes that are used for the tensioning tool that should be facing away from the block.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Yes no washer behind, and it can only really go one way because if its the other way the face of the tensioner will be right against the head / block and wont even spin. The proper side sticks out just a wee bit. I think that last one i had installed there stuck out just a wee bit more than it was saposed to. Idk? Got the "oem" one from GAP arriving tomorrow will probably try it again sunday. 

When i saw a new post i thought you were chiming in on the brakes. Lol im losing sleep over this damn thing!


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> Once again. Passenger side this time. WHY wont this drum fit on? Brian, i banged up the adjuter. All parts are identical to driver side, and to original. I measured drums. Everything. I just CANT get the drums on!!!!! Im ready to just pay someone to come finish this dumb brake job lol.



1) It looks like the wheel cylinder might be extended out, pushing on the shoes. Try manually compressing them by squeezing the shoes inwards by hand. You might find that pushing one side makes the other pop out, so push evenly.

2) Make sure the vertical adjuster pin is really up, as someone has suggested.

3) Sometimes it can be a nuisance to get the drums on. I'll sometimes have to hook it onto one shoe and then snug it over the other side with some gentle taps. Don't hammer it or anything crazy, and once you do get it on make sure it's not dragging. 

4) Once you get to passed that point make sure you're following the correct procedures for the spindle nut and cotter pin etc.


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## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

He advised me, when he installs coilovers he typically flips them around. Finds the point where the spring has a tiny bit of tension on it.....IE: springs not flapping around anymore.....and then go about a 1/4" past that and that should be a decent initial setup. Now i dont know if im installing something wrong here, or what the deal is but by the time i installed the stupid spacer thing and the FIRST nut on the coilover ( on the bench), to hold everything together for install......even with the nuts wound all the way down to the very very bottom there was so much tension on the springs already i couldnt even turn the nuts by hand. 

I finally got so fed up........i set them so that theres about 2.75" of threads left below the nut, ( AKA to go lower ), and called it a night. It ALMOST seems that even at this point, the car might sit wayyy too low in the back, however the helper spring is SO COMPRESSED that it just doesnt seem right. 

Looking for some input from the pro's here, as usual! lol. :thumbup: :wave:

Didnt think i needed this little silver cap piece above the black top portion of the coilover, ( under the spacer) , so i removed it. 


[/QUOTE]


YOU'RE CORRECT, THAT 'LITTLE SILVER CAP PIECE' IS TOTALLY WRONG!!

Here's the correct way:










Don't worry, along of VW people still get this all wrong, and usually it just means there is more banging around from the suspension. 

The part you had in the wrong place is most likely #16.

#8 and #15 you've already got. #13 is the big rubber bushing piece - NOTE THAT THE RIBBED PIECES ALWAYS FACE THE BODY, NOT THE HARDWARE. This is true for #13 and #14. I see so many cars with this done incorrectly. #16 sitting on top of the upper bushing, which stops the nut that goes above it from eating into the rubber.

You do appear to be missing a plastic piece that goes between the helper spring and the main spring. It's only there to keep them aligned, but it could in theory be important or at least stop them from banging around mainly after you've lifted the car on jacks or a lift. You should find that the springs are under tension when assembled - that's what the helper spring is for - and it takes a decent amount of weight to compress the helper fully i.e. 1/4 of the weight of the car.

Post up with more photos if you still need help on it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

the brit said:


> 1) It looks like the wheel cylinder might be extended out, pushing on the shoes. Try manually compressing them by squeezing the shoes inwards by hand. You might find that pushing one side makes the other pop out, so push evenly.
> 
> 2) Make sure the vertical adjuster pin is really up, as someone has suggested.
> 
> ...


Thanks for all this!!!! So what i did last night, was i REALLY slammed that adjuster, all the way up. its pretty much the small little nub where the spring goes in thats still remaining sticking down. It really sucked the shoes in, and i WAS able to get the original drum on........but i was NOT ABLE TO GET THE NEW DRUM ON! 
I have a replacement drum coming tonight just incase the new one i had gotten was somehow warped. My only concern with where that adjuster is now, is that it is actuall up so far that it is BEHIND the wheel cylinder portion that comes in and out.....the metal part that is. Im worried its going to cause issues like this? i dont know. I dont remember it being up that high on the other side before i was able to get the new drum on. 




In addition. Last night i put on my THIRD BRAND NEW tensioner, and this one seemed to do the trick. while the timing belt is still just about at the face of the 
cam sprocket, it doesnt appear to be riding OFF of the edge. I guess this is good news and im going to stop worrying about it / screwing with it at this point. I'll call this done now. I replaced the lower timing belt cover, as well as the upper cover. I then bolted up the crank pulleys, so now those are on, as well as the PS pulley however the allen bolts i had were way too long and upon the last few turns, caused it all to bind against the pump housing so i need to pickup some real short bolts tonight. The original , ( not sure if its working ) AC compressor got wire wheeled down and painted with ceramic black engine paint. This is just mainly to make it look nice. I WILL hook it up, and attempt to find the wires to connect them also but this is not a main concern. Not many photos recently, i'll try and get a whole bunch tonight of what i've done.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Should only be two wires going to a/c compressor...one to the hot plug..other to ground. Pretty simple. 
And since it grounds thru the motor..maybe only the single clutch hot wire.

Sometimes if the drum won't go on, open the brake cylinder bleeder valve.
This lets any air/fluid out..and perhaps would let you compress the cylinder just enough to get the drum on.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Should only be two wires going to a/c compressor...one to the hot plug..other to ground. Pretty simple.
> And since it grounds thru the motor..maybe only the single clutch hot wire.
> 
> Sometimes if the drum won't go on, open the brake cylinder bleeder valve.
> This lets any air/fluid out..and perhaps would let you compress the cylinder just enough to get the drum on.


I've tried ratchet strapping around the shoes, there is no fluid in the system as of now, or VERY little, and the bleeder is out completely not just cracked open. 
Ive tried pressing them in by hand, thats a lost cause. I feel like they may be as in together as they can possibly be because of the long plate that goes between them up top.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

I'm sure you did, but the 'feet' on the brake cylinder are cut to an angle..they aren't straight up and down.
Are the top of the brake shoes matching the angle of the brake cylinder 'feet' so it all fits?

fit like this \/ would be bad.
fit like this // would be good, top of shoe to brake cylinder metal pushers.

I could be way off on this though.....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> I'm sure you did, but the 'feet' on the brake cylinder are cut to an angle..they aren't straight up and down.
> Are the top of the brake shoes matching the angle of the brake cylinder 'feet' so it all fits?
> 
> fit like this \/ would be bad.
> ...



I think i know what your saying, but yeah The feet of the wheel cylinder, and they ARE straight up and down, with the foot to the rear ( closest to the backing plate), 
just as brians illustration showed.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I think i know what your saying, but yeah The feet of the wheel cylinder, and they ARE straight up and down, with the foot to the rear ( closest to the backing plate),
> just as brians illustration showed.


You mean this?


Look at the Adjustment wedge, make sure it is up all the way.

But from your Picture, the Brake cable is pulling the shoes out.


If you look at my cable the spring is relaxed and the arm is back.
Yours is so scared, that it is trying to pull itself in.



For Grins, Make sure your handle is all the way down.
If it is then remove the tension off the cable as in take it off so the cable doesn't have tension.
If the cable won't release it's grip, it is probably broken internally.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Brian you really nailed it. Your ebrake gold metal bar is way back behind the shoe. In his picture, most of his ebrake gold metal bar is exposed..like its being pulled.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm now THIS is interesting. Now, when i pull my ebrake, up......put it down, it feels as though its attached to nothing at all, while i know for a fact the cables are attached
to the E-brake handle itself. Its an automatic, so i wasnt really overly concerned with dealing with this. I guess now i need to go buy E-brake cables? Holy crap, cant i just finish this brake job. :banghead:

So brian, If my adjuster is ALL the way up to the point where the top portion of it is actually BEHIND the wheel cyl. piston......is that up WAY too far?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm now THIS is interesting. Now, when i pull my ebrake, up......put it down, it feels as though its attached to nothing at all, while i know for a fact the cables are attached
> to the E-brake handle itself. Its an automatic, so i wasnt really overly concerned with dealing with this. I guess now i need to go buy E-brake cables? Holy crap, cant i just finish this brake job. :banghead:
> 
> So brian, If my adjuster is ALL the way up to the point where the top portion of it is actually BEHIND the wheel cyl. piston......is that up WAY too far?


No, as when you get the Cables replaced I would do BOTH  when re-assembled, Just push on the Pedal, and they will adjust, also when you pull up on the e-brake they will adjust. 

Don't feel too bad, I am glad I caught it for you.... Took me a while to post as I had a BIG MAC ATTACK..... My Mac Fried...
Now I have to source a new MOBO. I think I will Upgrade it to a mid 2007 or early 2008 So I can run Yosemite.... But in Computer years it was a late 2006, that had been abused a wee bit.....

Be sure to get Rabbit Cables, as the air cooled ones look and are the same to mount, but the SCREW end that goes through the feed tube is too long.
I got Stranded Once, Got the wrong cable from store at Closing time, and ended up having to cut the screw down to install. Terrible being 380 miles from home and the wheel locks because the Cable broke when you parked it.... Love them Parking lot fixes. So see it could be worse.... 380 miles from home on a Sunday afternoon, the store closed at 6 finally got home about 3:30am Monday, with a sore arm and 3 stitches in my Thumbs knuckle...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> No, as when you get the Cables replaced I would do BOTH  when re-assembled, Just push on the Pedal, and they will adjust, also when you pull up on the e-brake they will adjust.
> 
> Don't feel too bad, I am glad I caught it for you.... Took me a while to post as I had a BIG MAC ATTACK..... My Mac Fried...
> Now I have to source a new MOBO. I think I will Upgrade it to a mid 2007 or early 2008 So I can run Yosemite.... But in Computer years it was a late 2006, that had been abused a wee bit.....
> ...


Thanks for this info!!!!!! I guess i'll be replacing the cables and PRAY that that does the trick!!!!!! 

For now, could i simply put a vice grip to the pad side of shoe, and the bar that holds the cable and try and squeeze it in........to see if it sucks the shoe in enough to get the drum on ( to PROVE that this is actually the issue? ) 

Also..........NEW PROBLEMS!!!!!! 

Last night, as the back cant be dropped on the ground yet and im at a standstill back there......i proceeded in installing some of the pulleys onto the engine, got the newly painted ( old ) AC compressor back installed ( not tensioned yet ), etc etc etc. Now. 

The car never had a PS pump pulley on it when i got it nor was it hooked up. Now with the replacement pump IN and installed ( properly verified by photo's here ), i installed the PS pump pulley last, 
and upon doing so...........the inside of the PS pump pulley literally rides against the water pump pulley. Yes WP pulley is installed correctly. 

Can someone tell me why this is happening, or how to fix it ? Once i get this resolved i can begin installing the belts and be THAT much closer to completion!!! 



Yeah i know the PS pulley has a little bend in that back edge, but its rubbing all around and i mean rubbing the WP pulley ALOT, id have to space it with like 4 washers to stop this and that tells me somethigns not right. 



Here's just some pics of what else i was up to last night.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*I guess i'll be replacing the cables and PRAY that that does the trick!!!!!! 

For now, could i simply put a vice grip to the pad side of shoe, and the bar that holds the cable and try and squeeze it in........to see if it sucks the shoe in enough to get the drum on ( to PROVE that this is actually the issue? ) *

Never Pry on the Shoe Pad... You are gonna be looking for new shoes. To Validate you can just remove the Brake cable off the parking arm that is attached to the shoe and let it flop....(until replaced) IF you can pull the handle up or down and not feel resistance or see the arm move on the brake, then your cables are broke.


Last night, as the back cant be dropped on the ground yet and im at a standstill back there......i proceeded in installing some of the pulleys onto the engine, got the newly painted ( old ) AC compressor back installed ( not tensioned yet ), etc etc etc. Now. 

The car never had a PS pump pulley on it when i got it nor was it hooked up. Now with the replacement pump IN and installed ( properly verified by photo's here ), i installed the PS pump pulley last, 
and upon doing so...........the inside of the PS pump pulley literally rides against the water pump pulley. Yes WP pulley is installed correctly. 

*Can someone tell me why this is happening, or how to fix it ? Once i get this resolved i can begin installing the belts and be THAT much closer to completion!!! 



Yeah i know the PS pulley has a little bend in that back edge, but its rubbing all around and i mean rubbing the WP pulley ALOT, id have to space it with like 4 washers to stop this and that tells me somethigns not right. 

*

Yes they can rub, there is minimal clearance Clarence to them dam things.
I had a floppy belt rub the pulley:


I would do a couple of things, one, get the ding out.
2 there were 2 styles of pw/pump pulleys, you may have the wrong pulley, I think the one did rub... I ran in to this once but I can't remember the rub.
3 If you need but a small play, then I would think of using washers between the Pulley and the pump as shims. Looking at your pulley the shaft of the pump doesn't look right. I suspect that you got it from a GOLF and not a Cabriolet? So shimming it may be your only choice.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> I would do a couple of things, one, get the ding out.
> 2 there were 2 styles of pw/pump pulleys, you may have the wrong pulley, I think the one did rub... I ran in to this once but I can't remember the rub.
> 3 If you need but a small play, then I would think of using washers between the Pulley and the pump as shims. Looking at your pulley the shaft of the pump doesn't look right. I suspect that you got it from a GOLF and not a Cabriolet? So shimming it may be your only choice.


So okay. I can ding the little dents out no problem. The water pump pulley, was on the original pump ( naturally tha tdoesnt mean its right i guess) . 

So your saying the shaft of the power steering pump doesnt look right? I just compared side by side to the picture you posted of yours, and the shaft / pulley looks exactly the same. What do you mean by this? I got the pump, and pulley used from a member here who claimed it was off of a cabriolet, so im not sure!!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> So okay. I can ding the little dents out no problem. The water pump pulley, was on the original pump ( naturally tha tdoesnt mean its right i guess) .
> 
> So your saying the shaft of the power steering pump doesnt look right? I just compared side by side to the picture you posted of yours, and the shaft / pulley looks exactly the same. What do you mean by this? I got the pump, and pulley used from a member here who claimed it was off of a cabriolet, so im not sure!!


Look at the pump shaft. center of the pulley. mine are round Yours is fluted.... could be wrong...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Look at the pump shaft. center of the pulley. mine are round Yours is fluted.... could be wrong...


NOW i see what you mean..........great.......now psycho me will wind up buying a new replacement PS pump also just to be sure :banghead: lol


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey Yall, Little bit of an update. 

I wound up spacing out the power steering pump pulley. ( 2 washers behind each bolt ), and this did the trick. No more pulley chafing!!! I even slapped some baby powder up there for good measure. 

THEN. being as the e-brake plate behind the brake shoe wouldnt budge, ( I assumed it was seized )........i just cut the damn thing out completely. 
all of a sudden what do you know............the drum fits right on and over the shoes with no problem at all. THANKS SO MUCH BRIAN!!!!! 
You saved me from having to start thinking of clever ways to end it all. For now, i left the Ebrake cable out of the equation completely. The drums are on. the wheels are on, and the back of the car is sitting firmly on the ground. 

THEN i started putting the belts on. How annoying is THAT! First the compressor and alternator. THEN the compressor, crank, waterpump.......could only do this with the water pump pulley off because of the tightness between WP and PS pump pulleys. THEN the PS pump to crank. I couldnt finish teh job, because two of these belts were wrong that i ordered off rock auto. the model number of the gates belt i have under rock's description says ( water pump / power steerring pump ) however......theres no belt that connects those two!!!! Oh well. 

Once i did this i crawled back underneath the front of the car, Header in my hands. I realized, If i simply removed the passenger side axle, 
im almost positive that the header will literally go straight ( and flat ) up and in, without having to jack up the front of the car another 5 feet! Any input anyone done it this way before?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

When I placed my header on my 90, and the Dual downs on my 92, and 93 I was only about 36 inches off the ground with the frame. 
I never removed the axles. But to each his own. Glad the shims on the pulley worked for you.

And just so you know I have forgotten to place the Alternator belt in position and have to take the crank-wp-ac belt off again....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> When I placed my header on my 90, and the Dual downs on my 92, and 93 I was only about 36 inches off the ground with the frame.
> I never removed the axles. But to each his own. Glad the shims on the pulley worked for you.
> 
> And just so you know I have forgotten to place the Alternator belt in position and have to take the crank-wp-ac belt off again....


I'll give it a try tomorrow when i get back to the car. The car's pretty high off the ground right now in front and it wasnt even remotely close to going in ( at-least i dont think ). The header is so long, and it seems i have to have the inlets to the header pointing STRAIGHT UP to the sky to get between the steering rack and axle, and then rotate as i push up and in, being as the header is about 4' long about, it may be tough....but i will try!!!!!! 

Oh, i wasnt goign to mention it, but this is exactly what i did the first time around. lol. 
Why cant it be like my diesel bunny and just have ONE belt. WP, and alternator. thats IT ! Niceeeee and simple. :thumbup:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I'll give it a try tomorrow when i get back to the car. The car's pretty high off the ground right now in front and it wasnt even remotely close to going in ( at-least i dont think ). The header is so long, and it seems i have to have the inlets to the header pointing STRAIGHT UP to the sky to get between the steering rack and axle, and then rotate as i push up and in, being as the header is about 4' long about, it may be tough....but i will try!!!!!!
> 
> Oh, i wasnt goign to mention it, but this is exactly what i did the first time around. lol.
> Why cant it be like my diesel bunny and just have ONE belt. WP, and alternator. thats IT ! Niceeeee and simple. :thumbup:


Try this... 

Feed the header upside down over the axle so that you get the clearance, then will it flip, other wise remove the axle and tie it up out of your way.
it is after all only 6 8mm Triple square bolts... be sure to fully seat the tool with a couple of taps of your hammer.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Try this...
> 
> Feed the header upside down over the axle so that you get the clearance, then will it flip, other wise remove the axle and tie it up out of your way.
> it is after all only 6 8mm Triple square bolts... be sure to fully seat the tool with a couple of taps of your hammer.


Oh yeah absolutely. When you say upsidedown........you mean totally upsidedown? I dont know if theres enough room between
the fire-wall and the block / head to fully rotate the header so that all 4 exhaust ports are going front to back at one point, not side to side. 

I've changed the axles way too many times on my rabbit, so im fairly familiar with their removal and replacement.it does however upset me that i dont have the $$ to replace both of them along with ball joints. The ball joints look to be almost stock.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Oh yeah absolutely. When you say upsidedown........you mean totally upsidedown? I dont know if theres enough room between
> the fire-wall and the block / head to fully rotate the header so that all 4 exhaust ports are going front to back at one point, not side to side.
> 
> I've changed the axles way too many times on my rabbit, so im fairly familiar with their removal and replacement.it does however upset me that i dont have the $$ to replace both of them along with ball joints. The ball joints look to be almost stock.


Raceland headers are a tad long, I had a PaceSetter and it was short.
Racelands are really for Cat deletes....

E-brake Cables are about 15-20 bucks at NAPA. It is better to install new ones and be totally done with the rears.
E-Brakes come in handy if you have a Brake Failure.... Better to have a e-brake than play bumper cars.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Raceland headers are a tad long, I had a PaceSetter and it was short.
> Racelands are really for Cat deletes....
> 
> E-brake Cables are about 15-20 bucks at NAPA.  It is better to install new ones and be totally done with the rears.
> E-Brakes come in handy if you have a Brake Failure.... Better to have a e-brake than play bumper cars.


Oh absolutely!!!!! i have NO intention of the car being driven or even moved from its current location without ebrakes. im just broke NOW, aka until the next flow of money comes through my way.........and c ould not proceed on the car any longer without the back wheels on the ground and suspension done.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

SO. Little bit of a photo-less update. 

Last night, I dropped the passenger side axle...........grease........everywhere. I hate these things. Im much better around truck differentials lol. 

The " seal " that i found between the hub on the tranny and the CV was also split in two, so i guess i'll be replacing that. Theres grease and oil all over the transmission so i cant tell whats coming from where. Im fairly sure its all transmission leakage. 

None the less.....................

********PLEASE NOTE******** 

DROPPING THE PASSENGER SIDE AXLE ALLOWS VERY VERY EASY ACCESS TO INSTALL A HEADER / EXHAUST MANIFOLD!!!!!!! 


Granted, still took me about an hour to get 8 stupid nuts on, but thanks to an air ratchet and some grease on my forearms i was able to maneuver around enough up under the intake with a swivel socket to get them all on and socked down nice and tight. 

NOW to get a little flex adapter........reconnect the exhaust system to the new header.......finish the Belts and start this thing !!!!!!! ( That may be about a week away. The belt issue is really bugging me. Im going to go to the parts store, and just order all of them ( AGAIN) in person and hopefully i get the right ones..........

Then i just need to attempt to figure out how to tension the AC compressor and the PS pump to tighten everythiung up once the belts are on


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

*Graduation*

I don't want to read back through 20 pages, but I have to ask. Has Graduation come an gone?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

77kafer said:


> I don't want to read back through 20 pages, but I have to ask. Has Graduation come an gone?


Oh it sure has. the 22nd of last month. lol. 

Are you surprised??? :banghead:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So last night, after much...and i mean MUCH kicking and cursing i finally got the head unit in, and dash fascia back on. Yes i epoxied washers in........worked out pretty good. Just dont understand why theres no screws that hold it all together on the top. It seems all the screws that i found ( 4 ) go on the bottom, allowing the top to flop around a little in and out. Oh well. 

Head unit is in, looks pretty good. MIC for phone is mounted high up on A-pillar out of sight. 

I then put my brand new mcguires buffing wheel on my polisher and with some polishing compound, tried out a spot on the rear driver side..........Clear coat is coming back out nicely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its all the chips, and gouges and little rust spots that are there to stay, for a while. whatever! At least i know i'll be able to get it looking presentable right? 

I then turned my attention to hooking up more miscellaneous BS under the hood. I connected some harnesses, hoses, O2 sensor etc etc etc. 

When i got to the oil pressure switch on the side of the head, i remembered that hooking them up ONE way, had neither temp or pressure working inside the car. 
Can anyone here assist me in figuring out which wire, goes to which connector so i can get it right the first time here? 

Also......I've got a bunch of cracked hoses......and i mean really cracked that i need to replace. problem is, they are vaccuum hoses the Elbows and stuff that sit over the valve cover.

Can someone tell me where i might be able to find these pieces??????? Thanks!!!!! Pics pics pics. finally.


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Oh it sure has. the 22nd of last month. lol.
> 
> Are you surprised??? :banghead:




Well, I remember it was hidden at friends house and it was supposed to be presented at Graduation with a bow on it and everything, so did she see it yet?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

77kafer said:


> Well, I remember it was hidden at friends house and it was supposed to be presented at Graduation with a bow on it and everything, so did she see it yet?


Nope......its still a secret. Shes starting to really get suspiscious yet. I think the fact that im wrenching on SOMETHING of mine every day typically and always buying upgrades / parts......and HAVENT touched my stuff aside from maintenance is starting to make her wonder lol. Car is still hidden, and will be until its road-ready and problem free and on her feet again, which now that the header is on, is coming quickly!!! :thumbup: 

Bump bump bump for the questions i posted with the pictures?


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Nope......its still a secret.


:thumbup::thumbup:


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> So last night, after much...and i mean MUCH kicking and cursing i finally got the head unit in, and dash fascia back on. Yes i epoxied washers in........worked out pretty good. Just dont understand why theres no screws that hold it all together on the top. It seems all the screws that i found ( 4 ) go on the bottom, allowing the top to flop around a little in and out. Oh well. *There are. Two over the instrument cluster, and one right over the head unit. Same type as the other 3. There should be 3 going to the bottom of that fascia..*
> 
> Head unit is in, looks pretty good. MIC for phone is mounted high up on A-pillar out of sight.
> 
> ...


She's coming along well!


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> Nope......its still a secret. Shes starting to really get suspiscious yet. I think the fact that im wrenching on SOMETHING of mine every day typically and always buying upgrades / parts......and HAVENT touched my stuff aside from maintenance is starting to make her wonder lol. Car is still hidden, and will be until its road-ready and problem free and on her feet again, which now that the header is on, is coming quickly!!!
> 
> Bump bump bump for the questions i posted with the pictures?


Lol... hopefully she doesn't suspect you of cheating on her and leave you before you finish it  lol 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)




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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Lol... hopefully she doesn't suspect you of cheating on her and leave you before you finish it  lol
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Lol this isnt even something to joke about. haha. 

Shes beginning to dispise my friend who's house its at because im literally there EVERY SINGLE NIGHT right after work at like 7, until about 12 - 12:30 working on it. 
She thinks im just there hanging out and avoiding spending time with her! Ohhhhhh she'll see. lmao. It better be soon though, Im lucky i've pulled this off this long!! 

Thanks for all the compliments fellas' :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


>


Thanks for the clarification on the oil pressure switch brian. 

What were the photo's of your engine bay showing?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks for the clarification on the oil pressure switch brian.
> 
> What were the photo's of your engine bay showing?


The inter connect hoses that you showed as splitting. 
So that you could see how they are connected.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The inter connect hoses that you showed as splitting.
> So that you could see how they are connected.


Oh okay thanks alot!!!! 

I however am MAINLY wondering right now................where the heck can i find replacements for the elbows and short hoses that are there?????

thats what i mostly need right now so i can put it all back together and didnt see ANYTHING for them on GAP. The clamps wont be an issue because 
my friend owns an inground sprinkler company that i work for every sat. and sunday.........and we use the same stainless steel crimp clamps for the poly pipe we use.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Oh okay thanks alot!!!!
> 
> I however am MAINLY wondering right now................where the heck can i find replacements for the elbows and short hoses that are there?????
> 
> ...


Most Auto Parts places have those in the "Help" sections, the poly elbows have never been an issue that I know if, and the Crimps have never been an issue for me.

I suppose a PVC elbow and a barbed fitting would work, as well as they make Brass elbows with barbed fittings as well.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Most Auto Parts places have those in the "Help" sections, the poly elbows have never been an issue that I know if, and the Crimps have never been an issue for me.
> 
> I suppose a PVC elbow and a barbed fitting would work, as well as they make Brass elbows with barbed fittings as well.


Okay great thanks. 

I just need the replacement rubber elbows and straights. They are completely cracked and dry-rotted. This could be a definite source of vacuum leakage! 

Hopefully this weekend i can get to the parts store and get a bunch of the stuff that i need. Im surprised by this point GAP isnt selling a complete " Vacuum system overhaul kit " including EVERYTHING to replace all of the lines, checks, elbows, clamps, etc etc. It could be a good money maker from them if it was somewhat affordable!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay great thanks.
> 
> I just need the replacement rubber elbows and straights. They are completely cracked and dry-rotted. This could be a definite source of vacuum leakage!
> 
> Hopefully this weekend i can get to the parts store and get a bunch of the stuff that i need. Im surprised by this point GAP isnt selling a complete " Vacuum system overhaul kit " including EVERYTHING to replace all of the lines, checks, elbows, clamps, etc etc. It could be a good money maker from them if it was somewhat affordable!


The elbow hose is 049133783 and 38 bucks each at busdepot. and it takes 3 of them.... ouchies...

I would see if a parts store would let you browse the hoses for one with the same id and a 90 degree bend or 2 and buy it, then cut it down.
Straights are easy, just get a straight hose.

Wrecking yards are another place to find those......


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The elbow hose is 049133783 and 38 bucks each at busdepot. and it takes 3 of them.... ouchies...
> 
> I would see if a parts store would let you browse the hoses for one with the same id and a 90 degree bend or 2 and buy it, then cut it down.
> Straights are easy, just get a straight hose.
> ...


38 EACH ?!!! Well........They can take all of those elbows.......and stick them, well.......yeah......Up there! lol. 

I can always get crazy with little brass elbows with barbs and small straight pieces as an interconnect. I'll figure something out im sure. 

Going to the parts store to browse is exactly what i plan on doing and hopefully find something. IF i do, i'll be sure to post part #'s for replacements 
for all of the folks here. Thanks!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Brian. Trying to hook up that oil pressure switch. Your diagram locates the wires by where that bump is on the side. My replacement switch doesnt have that and i threw out the old. Can i locate them via the voltages that are called out next to the prongs? If so, which is which?


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Brian. Trying to hook up that oil pressure switch. Your diagram locates the wires by where that bump is on the side. My replacement switch doesnt have that and i threw out the old. Can i locate them via the voltages that are called out next to the prongs? If so, which is which?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


>


You're the best thankyou!!!!!!! Should deff add this to the cabby-info bible :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BIG moves today!!!






At first. Car wouldnt start wortha nothing. Moved all the wires on the dist. Cap one spot clockwise and she ran. I guess the firing order was off? It doesnt really match up to KAMZ on cabby info. But i dont know!!! The other issue was even though fuel pump was working initially, all of a sudden it wouldnt and car wouldnt run. Kept popping the fuse. I found the O2 sensor ties in with fuel pump wiring. Disconnected the sensor replaced fuse and shes alive. It was running clike crap in video cuz of no O2 sensor i think. 

Another issue is that my replacement temp gauge ( confirmed to work before putting in cluster wjth 9v battery) doesnt budge. Even as i left the car running. Not sure what the issue is here. 

Another issue ( maybe) is that oil level looked good before i started the car. Yes, i filled with 4 quarts of 2050. Now after running the level looks very low and im not sure why. Oil pressure gauge looked OK while it ran, so i know theres no blockages. Plus, i installed the new style high volume pump so she should be all good. Not sure if i should add another quart maybe? Im not sure. If its 4 PLUS the filter then this would explain it. 

Also i need to now get a replacement rubber portion that goes from TB to filter box as one of those little outlet pieces is completely cracked like ive seen so many photos of on here. Oh well....she runs. Im nit pushing my luck any more today!! HAPPY 4th!!!!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Should deff add this to the cabby-info bible :thumbup:


Will do. :thumbup:



Derekxj said:


> I guess the firing order was off? It doesnt really match up to KAMZ on cabby info. But i dont know!!!


In the video, the wires are correct: 1-3-4-2. 



Derekxj said:


> Another issue ( maybe) is that oil level looked good before i started the car. Yes, i filled with 4 quarts of 2050. Now after running the level looks very low and im not sure why. Oil pressure gauge looked OK while it ran, so i know theres no blockages. Plus, i installed the new style high volume pump so she should be all good. Not sure if i should add another quart maybe? Im not sure. If its 4 PLUS the filter then this would explain it.


It's actually 4 *liters*, which translates to 4.23 quarts. 










Add oil in small increments until it reaches the proper area on the dipstick.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> BIG moves today!!!
> 
> At first. Car wouldnt start wortha nothing. Moved all the wires on the dist. Cap one spot clockwise and she ran. I guess the firing order was off? It doesnt really match up to KAMZ on cabby info. But i dont know!!! The other issue was even though fuel pump was working initially, all of a sudden it wouldnt and car wouldnt run. Kept popping the fuse. I found the O2 sensor ties in with fuel pump wiring. Disconnected the sensor replaced fuse and shes alive. It was running clike crap in video cuz of no O2 sensor i think.
> 
> ...


It looks weird in her picture on cabby-info. Caused my blue ea also not to start for some time and I went around diagnosing things that didn't need diagnosed. HOWEVER, if you look closely at the picture, you can reference the distributor clamp and that then will allow you to align the wires correctly.

Are you sure you plugged the correct plug into the correct coolant temp sensor? Blue plug goes to blue sensor on the flange coming out of the front of the head.Test the coolant temp gauge with a 9v battery from the plug by the sensor. If it doesn't move, then the wiring may be a screwed. Then pull the cluster and test the wires and also the gauge again. If the gauge is messed up for some reason, pm me..It shouldn't be though.

Do you need the whole rubber hose thing that connects airbox to throttle body?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*
At first. Car wouldnt start wortha nothing. Moved all the wires on the dist. Cap one spot clockwise and she ran. I guess the firing order was off? It doesnt really match up to KAMZ on cabby info. But i dont know!!! *

This is why when you time it, you don't use the Pulley dots for the intermediate shaft.
Chances are that you replaced the wires in the same order that it was, but in fact it was originally off.
The Number one wire is alway at 0 time on the cap to the rotor, all the others rotate from there.

*Another issue is that my replacement temp gauge ( confirmed to work before putting in cluster wjth 9v battery) doesnt budge. Even as i left the car running. Not sure what the issue is here. *

Be sure that your 10v Stabilizer is good, if the fuel gauge is working then the stabilizer may be good, but the input to the gauge is bad.
You may want to check the sender.

*Another issue ( maybe) is that oil level looked good before i started the car. Yes, i filled with 4 quarts of 2050. Now after running the level looks very low and im not sure why. Oil pressure gauge looked OK while it ran, so i know theres no blockages. Plus, i installed the new style high volume pump so she should be all good. Not sure if i should add another quart maybe? Im not sure. If its 4 PLUS the filter then this would explain it. *

It is a little bit shy of 5 qts on a filter change, you also have an amount in the filter, and the Oil Cooler that if you didn't prefill the filter then you are off after you start the car and charge (fill the filter and oil cooler).

*Also i need to now get a replacement rubber portion that goes from TB to filter box as one of those little outlet pieces is completely cracked like ive seen so many photos of on here. Oh well....she runs. Im nit pushing my luck any more today!! HAPPY 4th!!!!*

Those are more available than the Throttle Body to Maf on a 90ish and cheaper as well.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Will do. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Kamz!! So you can actually tell, from the VIDEO that the wires are correct????? lol. I was trying to watch the video to confirm and couldnt even tell!

This picture however.......Makes it more clear how i currently have it and how it will seem to run OK. 




flying_oliver said:


> It looks weird in her picture on cabby-info. Caused my blue ea also not to start for some time and I went around diagnosing things that didn't need diagnosed. HOWEVER, if you look closely at the picture, you can reference the distributor clamp and that then will allow you to align the wires correctly.
> 
> Are you sure you plugged the correct plug into the correct coolant temp sensor? Blue plug goes to blue sensor on the flange coming out of the front of the head.Test the coolant temp gauge with a 9v battery from the plug by the sensor. If it doesn't move, then the wiring may be a screwed. Then pull the cluster and test the wires and also the gauge again. If the gauge is messed up for some reason, pm me..It shouldn't be though.
> 
> Do you need the whole rubber hose thing that connects airbox to throttle body?


So putting the wiring of the spark plug wires aside......the coolant temp sensor connector IS infact correct. Isnt the BLUE sensor the one that goes to the ECU and can sometimes cause running issues.......and the BLACK one is the one that sends signal to the gauge? iM going to have to go look on cabby info now and confirm the operations of both just to be sure. Im fairly sure i replaced BOTH of them, i KNOW i replaced the blue one...........i may have re-used the old black one. I know the gauge worked, as i double checked it 3 times with a 9 volt before i put it in! 

Good idea checking with 9 volt at the connector as that will prove the wiring / sensor out as well. 



briano1234 said:


> *
> At first. Car wouldnt start wortha nothing. Moved all the wires on the dist. Cap one spot clockwise and she ran. I guess the firing order was off? It doesnt really match up to KAMZ on cabby info. But i dont know!!! *
> 
> This is why when you time it, you don't use the Pulley dots for the intermediate shaft.
> ...


Thanks for the info brian. When i timed it, i followed your exact methodology and didnt use the pulley dots on the intermediate, i followed the approach of putting the distributor exactly where it was sapposed to be aligned with the hash mark on the housing. 

The 10V stabilizer i replaced with a brand new one......... and my fuel gauge is working well. Going to have to continue with the diagnosis tonight. 

As for the oil..........I guess im going to add a quart, assuming that I forgot to fill the filter before installing ( i cant recall what i did or didnt do ), and see where that puts me. Also going to have to look for that rubber piece on ebay now and hopefully can find one fairly cheap!!! 


Last night, i went back to the car again hooked up the battery and just wanted to see if it would have a hard time starting like originally. 

NOPE. cranked not even once and she started and ran solid. i guess this means the timing is right, and wiring is right, and i need to replace the O2 sensor which is still unplugged. 

Also..............I ordered ANOTHER replacement " Power Steering Pump Belt " , and it is STILL WAY WAY WAY too long even when the pump is in its furthest out most spot..........Can someone help me out here and show me what the pulley on a 91 is sapposed to look like? perhaps the pulley i got from somewhere here with the replacement pump is way too small? Im not sure, this is the only belt I have left to get on. Compressor, alt. everything else is golden! 

Oh yeah............This also came in the mail!! She saw it, and thinks its for my car :laugh:
It actually might be, if i dont feel like dealing with the steering column BS for this one! 





Give it some nice thick clearcoat with some wetsanding between and shes going to look pretty!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)




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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Additionally...........I was just thinking. 

If i accidentally mis-connected the two WHITE wires on the O2 sensor when i extended the wiring.....could this be why it was popping the fuse for the fuel pump AKA shorting it out somehow? Or, Does it not matter which of those two white wires goes to which?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

I always read it doesn't matter the polarity of the white wires...just so long as they go into the plug in the right place.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> I always read it doesn't matter the polarity of the white wires...just so long as they go into the plug in the right place.


Well then wouldnt this mean ( if they need to go into the plug in the right place ), that the polarity DOES matter? one should be for the signal and the other should be for the heated circuit from what i understand. 

last night, I got under there, and realized that one o fthe white wires had touched the manifold and burnt, and most likely shorted that way which was probably why i was popping the fuel pump fuse. OK no problem. maybe the wires ARENT flipped. 

Fixed it, tried to start.........anddddd NOTHING. slowly chugging to start while cranking. OK.
Flip flopped the two white wires. Same. Now i figure heck whatever. unplugged the O2 sensor as i was gettting it running nicely previously.........and now NOTHING both plugged, and unplugged. Let it sit for 15 minutes. came back, ( O2 still unplugged ), fired right the heck up and ran. ( Will upload videos soon of both conditions ). Whats going on here?????


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

The reason the polarity does not matter is the white wires are just the heater coil. The current can flow either way the coil doesn't care.
However if there is a short in either side of the circuit that needs to be rectified.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> The reason the polarity does not matter is the white wires are just the heater coil. The current can flow either way the coil doesn't care.
> However if there is a short in either side of the circuit that needs to be rectified.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Thanks for clarification. Im going to just replace the O2 sensor at this point i guess. I fear that when it burnt through the insulation on one of the white wires on the manifold while it was running it may have damaged the O2 sensor.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

I doubt it.. one of the white wires is 12v.. one is ground.. I don't have my Bentley near by to look at the current path to determine how it is wired and where the power comes from.. but if the burned wire is an ecu controlled wire it could possibly damage the ecu. If it was a simple 12v power feed it would probably just blow the fuse. If it was a ground side wire on the way back to ground you just shortened the path a bit..

Even if it did burn out the coil in the O2 sensor (it didnt), it's not really going to change things that much.. the old cars had 1 wire o2. Once they warmed up (minute or two) they generated a positive voltage depending on the air fuel ratio. The ground for that signal was through the body of the sensor to the exhaust and finally the block...
In the mid 80s a pair of wires was added, for the heater. All this did was to heat the sensor up almost immediately. It basically just decreases emissions for the first minute of operation. If you put a single wire 02 in place of a 3 wire, you won't notice a difference after the first minute, if you noticed a difference at all. 
Finally in the 90s they added a 4th wire, black, which runs the ground signal for the sensor itself directly back to the ecu.

The funny thing is for all the different o2 sensors sold, they are virtually the same. If you had to, you could cut the wires off the post cat o2 from a mk4 and splice it right in.. it doesn't even need to be a vag product.. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> I doubt it.. one of the white wires is 12v.. one is ground.. I don't have my Bentley near by to look at the current path to determine how it is wired and where the power comes from.. but if the burned wire is an ecu controlled wire it could possibly damage the ecu. If it was a simple 12v power feed it would probably just blow the fuse. If it was a ground side wire on the way back to ground you just shortened the path a bit..
> 
> Even if it did burn out the coil in the O2 sensor (it didnt), it's not really going to change things that much.. the old cars had 1 wire o2. Once they warmed up (minute or two) they generated a positive voltage depending on the air fuel ratio. The ground for that signal was through the body of the sensor to the exhaust and finally the block...
> In the mid 80s a pair of wires was added, for the heater. All this did was to heat the sensor up almost immediately. It basically just decreases emissions for the first minute of operation. If you put a single wire 02 in place of a 3 wire, you won't notice a difference after the first minute, if you noticed a difference at all.
> ...


This is definitelly really really odd then. Could my unplugging and plugging the O2 back in be lining up with a PURE coincidence with the engine starting, then not starting??????????? 

Im somewhat drawing a blank here on what this could also be a symptom of. Perhaps an intermittent fuel pump that doesnt pump while cranking consistently?


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The way to verify the fuel question is to put a fuel pressure gauge on the barb end, of the fuel rail.
Should be about 45psi key on not running...dropping to 38/40 while running.

Any other method is just guessing. This verifies operation of the pump, lines, and fuel pressure regulator.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Okay so you're saying just pull that little tiny bolt out of the end, and push on the hose for the gauge? 

How about while cranking? what should the fuel pressure read while cranking?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

VIDEO OF CAR STARTING WITH O2 SENSOR PLUGGED IN



VIDEO OF CAR STARTING WITH O2 SENSOR *UNPLUGGED *



Now mind you, earlier in the night, it was starting like it was in the first video, with it plugged in, OR unplugged. Im praying its related to that stupid O2 but after boosted's clarification im doubting that it is and thinking it may just be coincidence, im not sure. Also when it DID finally start in the first video i could smell, it was running EXTREMELY rich.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> VIDEO OF CAR STARTING WITH O2 SENSOR PLUGGED IN
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuel Pressure regulators can cause a wide variety of start/no start issues... I have seen it go both ways, when cold and when warm.
Check your Fuel pressures and to the FPR tests in the Bentley... They nailed it both times.

The Blue CTS sensor is another flakey ITEM... I have seen it cause a no-start when warm, and a enriched when warm issue.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Fuel Pressure regulators can cause a wide variety of start/no start issues... I have seen it go both ways, when cold and when warm.
> Check your Fuel pressures and to the FPR tests in the Bentley... They nailed it both times.
> 
> The Blue CTS sensor is another flakey ITEM... I have seen it cause a no-start when warm, and a enriched when warm issue.


Okay i can easily check the fuel pressure thats not an issue. As for the Regulator tests i'll have to checkout the bentley and see how they say to test it. 

the blue CTS i replaced..............i know i know i know, bad new ones occur all the time lol. I'll keep that on the back burner for now while i check the other items here. 

Also.................. I was just doing some reading, and i found a bunch of posts talking about the ignition switch causing similar sorts of problems.
Every hear of this?


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> As for the Regulator tests i'll have to checkout the bentley and see how they say to test it.


The Bentley tests are for fuel pressure, which, in turn test the function of the FPR. However, one easy test it does not list: 










*Also:* Have you tested the O2 sensor circuit?
http://vnc.thewpp.ca/stuff/bentley/ep0niks.ctech.ca/vw/eva2/GE03/ch5.3.1.html


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> The Bentley tests are for fuel pressure, which, in turn test the function of the FPR. However, one easy test it does not list:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input kamz. I'll try my best to get these tests completed tonight, they seem pretty straightforward except for measuring the CO levels. I'll probably skip that part and go onto the PINOUT at the computer connector in the rain-tray. Im honestly PRAYING its something like the ignition switch,
and not any electrical gremlins....ive had it with those things! Any other thoughts on this?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks for the input kamz. I'll try my best to get these tests completed tonight, they seem pretty straightforward except for measuring the CO levels. I'll probably skip that part and go onto the PINOUT at the computer connector in the rain-tray. Im honestly PRAYING its something like the ignition switch,
> and not any electrical gremlins....ive had it with those things! Any other thoughts on this?


So last night for the brief period of time i was able to look at the car..........I did the test at the Digifant computer connector as displayed above........and it passed the test. 

I ASSUME this tells me that there is no fault in the wiring between the connector where i plug in the sensor, and the harness at the computer. Check. 

THEN i performed the check AT the O2 sensor connector ( harness side, not sensor side). the test description was a bit un-clear. It stated that i should check for continuity between the green connector, and the ground. Now i wasnt sure if it meant *A* Ground, or *THE* ground on that same connector. When i checked continuity between the green wire lead in the connector, to a ground........it passed. naturally, because that wire coming out of the harness side of the connector grounds to the valve cover and is only about 3 inches long. 

When i checked continuity between the BROWN wire on the connector, which is the stand-alone and the green wire..........no continuity. 

This confused me because, the BROWN wire coming from the O2 side ALSO gets grounded to the valve cover. Can i still keep telling myself its the ignition switch not the O2 / wiring?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Does anybody have any vast experience with the PS pump pulley's, mounting, and belt adjustment and can help me figure out why every PS belt i've ordered ( 3) and correct length confirmed off cabby info.........is too long by several inches?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Does anybody have any vast experience with the PS pump pulley's, mounting, and belt adjustment and can help me figure out why every PS belt i've ordered ( 3) and correct length confirmed off cabby info.........is too long by several inches?


It should run from the Crank to the power steering pump. But if your Crank pulley doesn't have 2 pulleys, then they relocated it to the water pump, and that is why the belt could be too long. 

VW and PO's did a wide variety of funny things......over the years.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> It should run from the Crank to the power steering pump. But if your Crank pulley doesn't have 2 pulleys, then they relocated it to the water pump, and that is why the belt could be too long.
> 
> VW and PO's did a wide variety of funny things......over the years.


Yes it does infact go from the crank pulley to the power steering pump. All of my other belts are on, and tensioned properly car ran and charged fine. 
everything is good. This is the last piece of the puzzle.



Car did not have a power steering pump pulley, or belt on when i got it, so im trying to figure out if perhaps my 91 was meant to have a larger pulley than the one that i acquired perhaps? Im not sure. Very, very strange. Id hate to " rig it " and go to the parts store and just start taking stabs at a shorter belt size i'd rather know why the proper one isnt working first!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

No clue about the O2 sensor since my Cabriolet is a one-wire, and my Digi Vanagon hasn't had O2 sensor issues (yet).



Derekxj said:


> Does anybody have any vast experience with the PS pump pulley's, mounting, and belt adjustment and can help me figure out why every PS belt i've ordered ( 3) and correct length confirmed off cabby info.........is too long by several inches?


Which one have you bought? The 1991 model year is (allegedly) a split year as far as the belts go:
Power steering pump to water pump: 9.5x730mm (#026145271; up to chassis M-009000)
Power steering pump to crankshaft: 9.5x630mm (#027903137; from chassis M-009001)*

The 730mm belt goes around the P/S pump and water pump; the 630mm belt ignores the water pump.



*Mislabeled that one in the PDF description. :facepalm:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> No clue about the O2 sensor since my Cabriolet is a one-wire, and my Digi Vanagon hasn't had O2 sensor issues (yet).
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hmmm now this is especially odd. 

Does GAP have it mis-labeled as well? They call it the power steering belt for cars with AC and power steering, but then in description they
say it drives the alternator? 

They list nothing of a " 630mm" belt for the PS, ONLY the 730mm Belt. Where does these spec's you've provided come from originally? 


http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Cabriolet/Engine/15/1


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

All my 90's cabs had the Power Steering belt running on it's own pulley that is bolted to the main crank pulley which was two pulleys one bolted to the other.
Then to the power steering pump only.



Yes I was taking it off.

The Crank also has a belt from the crank-water-pump-ac compressor.

The ps ld be about 730mm 

The other one is a tad longer 950 or so..

The alternator is about 630.

One of the old jobbers of parts stores had the same belt listed for the Alternator and the power steering pump....


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Where does these spec's you've provided come from originally?


VW parts catalog. Brian informed me that the illustration was off for the '91.5+ cars, so I had to modify it and the way I did it (in order not to go to a third page) might be confusing. So, I'll scrap that idea and just make a separate illustration for the '91.5 cars.

It's not only GAP, AutohausAZ and Rock Auto also do not list that as being for power steering either. :screwy: However, the P/S belt for '91.5+ cars is the same, size-wise, as the alternator belt (same part number too), so just get another alternator belt. And I'll make a note of this in the guide.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> All my 90's cabs had the Power Steering belt running on it's own pulley that is bolted to the main crank pulley which was two pulleys one bolted to the other.
> Then to the power steering pump only.
> 
> 
> ...


All of this is exactly the way i see things, and have things. 

So is there no possibility that for SOME reason my car would require a 630 belt, not the 730? Im at such a loss for words and ideas right now lol. 

I guess i'll just go to the parts store grab like 4 belts smaller than the 730 i have and try to find one that fits OK.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> All of this is exactly the way i see things, and have things.
> 
> So is there no possibility that for SOME reason my car would require a 630 belt, not the 730? Im at such a loss for words and ideas right now lol.
> 
> I guess i'll just go to the parts store grab like 4 belts smaller than the 730 i have and try to find one that fits OK.


I think I did that one time as well. I had a thought... Take a piece of string and wrap it around the pulleys, semi-tight. Mark it so you can take it off and measure it. You will be close... may be a half an inch short.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Did you get the o2 figured out? 
The heater circuit is fed by a red/white wire on the harness side. The ground is blue. 
That red/white wire is fed by fuse 5. That fuse also powers the fuel pumps. It is triggered by the fuel pump relay. 



















Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

The belt on my 91 for the ps...is a 3 pulley belt. Crank, water pump, and wp.
The belt on my 92 cabby...was a s2 pulley belt. Crank straight to wp. 
Lots of variations it seems.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> The belt on my 91 for the ps...is a 3 pulley belt. Crank, water pump, and wp.
> The belt on my 92 cabby...was a s2 pulley belt. Crank straight to wp.
> Lots of variations it seems.


Wow and your 91 is an EA also right??? Do you have a photo of the setup you could send me??? Now im thinking that maybe i have my WP pulley on backwards or something idk. is your waterpump a double pulley?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Did you get the o2 figured out?
> The heater circuit is fed by a red/white wire on the harness side. The ground is blue.
> That red/white wire is fed by fuse 5. That fuse also powers the fuel pumps. It is triggered by the fuel pump relay.
> 
> ...


I know this is coming from the bentley, and thanks ALOT for those pics!! im slowly getting better at reading these damn things.

HOWEVER, i have none, of those colors you've mentioned at my O2 sensor connector ( harness side ). I know for SURE i've got green and brown, i forget the other two colors but the red / white i do not believe is there.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I know this is coming from the bentley, and thanks ALOT for those pics!! im slowly getting better at reading these damn things.
> 
> HOWEVER, i have none, of those colors you've mentioned at my O2 sensor connector ( harness side ). I know for SURE i've got green and brown, i forget the other two colors but the red / white i do not believe is there.


If you are replacing the 4 pin Bosch with the cheaper Mustang o2 then you have to splice the wires. 
On the o2 there are 4 wires. 2 white (heater element non-polarity aware) a black (signal o2 sense) and a brown or green (ground seen it both ways)

You mate the Whites with white (it doesn't matter) the Black is the o2 signal wire to black, and the Ground (green or brown) to ground to the plug wires off the 
o2 plug on your cabriolet. 

Now you can get the really generic 1 wire (no heater elements) and connect that single black wire to the black wire, and don't worry about the other 3 wires.
You will need to cut them and insulate the ends. No heater means that until the o2 sensor gets up to temp about 3-4 miles your car will be running enriched...

Now for cost... 4 pin Bosch runs between 120 and 160.
4 pin generic runs about 27-45 bucks.
1 pin Generic runs about 20.

Solder and heat shrink all connections.

You choice, they all function correctly and will pass Georgia's smog check, the only thing is that for the single pin you need to put about 25 miles on it prior to the smog check..... ya gotta get it hot....  hope this helps you a bit.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> If you are replacing the 4 pin Bosch with the cheaper Mustang o2 then you have to splice the wires.
> On the o2 there are 4 wires. 2 white (heater element non-polarity aware) a black (signal o2 sense) and a brown or green (ground seen it both ways)
> 
> You mate the Whites with white (it doesn't matter) the Black is the o2 signal wire to black, and the Ground (green or brown) to ground to the plug wires off the
> ...


This DOES help me much more than a bit lol this is really awesome information, and now has me really curious as to why my existing O2 sensor thats on the car, that came on the car when i got it is THREE wire. 
two whites, and one black. Then.......at the top for SOME reason i have a BROWN coming out at the back of the sensor side connector, so OK that makes 4. but the brown is on a ring connector and goes right to ground at the valve cover. 

THEN on the opposite side connector ( the harness side ), i have all of the 4 you said, but GREEN is now the one cut short, and on a ring connector and grounded to the valve cover.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

i THINK im going stir crazy now with this car. Did i install the sway bar upside down????? 
I had it the other way first and the bent portions on the ends were hitting the control arms and wouldnt bolt up.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Happy weekend everyone!!!! 

So, i just replaced the ignition switch. Once again. I left the O2 sensor connected. Mind you car has been sitting unstarted for about a week.

First shot. She fired right up, ran and idled. How well? Idk. Hard to tell with an open header and everything so loud. 

Disconnected the O2 connecter. 
Sameeeeee oldddd chugging while cranking until it finally started and ran. 

NOW. Back connected. Wont start except the chugging and trying and alot of cranking.....back disconnected.....same thing. Im wondering if me plugging in and unplugging the O2 is simply a coincidence not related to some other issue that i have and connot figure out


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> i THINK im going stir crazy now with this car. Did i install the sway bar upside down?????
> I had it the other way first and the bent portions on the ends were hitting the control arms and wouldnt bolt up.


Yes the sway arms bolt to the top of the control arms, and you can affifx one side, along with the 2 rear brackets, then you need a long pry to attach the other 
side..

You need to flip it end for end, then the arms bolt to the top.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Yes the sway arms bolt to the top of the control arms, and you can affifx one side, along with the 2 rear brackets, then you need a long pry to attach the other
> side..
> 
> You need to flip it end for end, then the arms bolt to the top.


Thanks for the information Brian i knew i screwed something up here! :facepalm: Happens to all of us once in a while right. anyway.......


Got some big stuff done this weekend. 

took the tires to get mounted on the wheels. 
Installed said tires and wheels and for the first time in 3 months put her on her feet. I LOVE the look! Shes starting to look like a car again.
( And i think my friend is happy that it looks like tis coming closer to being removed from his garage lol ). 
STARTEd to follow Brians tutorial STEP by STEP to install the headliner. Got hung up because i didnt have rivets with me. It seems like im going to REALLY REALLY need to stretch this headliner to get the pieces to wrap around the center bars where they need to. w'ell see. 
Will continue with that this week.

Ripped the steering wheel and guts off. replaced ignition switch andddd yep, still wont start so. Now i guess tonight im going to check for spark at all cylinders one at a time. Then i guess im going to check fuel pressure while cranking if i can get a hold of a gauge from a friend. As soon as this no-starting problem is fixed i can basically drive this car and see what else i need to work on to get it driveable and can FINALLY give it to the girlfriend!. 

Also going to just make a hard connection from factory exhaust to header for now, i can get a flex section in there later i think it will be fine for now. 










So, NOW it can be seen clearly...........Plug and Dist. wiring appear to be correct?


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

It does appear to be correct. However, I would need to see one of the two clips that hold down the dizzy cover to confirm. 

When you check spark, you can also see if you are getting seemingly adequate fuel by smelling what shoots out of the spark plug hole.

Get a flex connector. You don't want that header cracking on you yet, it will soon enough (at least I imagine so..).


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> So, NOW it can be seen clearly...........Plug and Dist. wiring appear to be correct?


Yes, provided the distributor and rotor are lined up too.


The labels are wrong though. 

As for the no-start issue, since this is an automatic, there could be electrical issues going on: airbag system, interlock system, park/neutral switch, fuel pump relay, etc. Fuel pressure, vacuum leaks, grounds, etc. could also be playing a role.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Yes, provided the distributor and rotor are lined up too.
> 
> 
> The labels are wrong though.
> ...



Okay so, if you look REALLY close, you can kind of see the clips on the distributor, i'll take a better photo tonight but its weird, becasue those NGK wires CAME like that and quite honestly, had me really screwed up for a good while on which was the right order lol :laugh:

SO 

the NO start issue. I did clean up all of the contacts on the neutral safety switch shiny new. No dice. 


I've bypassed the airbag system as you and brian and many others have described by doing the work to the connector under the fuse panel. 

Ive ALSO bypassed the crappy interlock system as described in cabby-info.

Im going to be swapping the horn relay over to check and see if maybe the fuel pump relay is intermitting tonight. 

NOW. According to the beloved cabby-info...........my vacuum lines are ALL out of wack. To the point where a complete re-do may be in order. Two i never reconnected to the back of the Throttle body. one i never reconnected at the air box.........however.
Vacuum lines being disconnected, atleast as far as i know cannot cause a problem like THIS to occur. Sure, a car may run like COMPLETE crap. but cranking endlessly and not starting but really really trying to start as i showed in the video?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

If it cranks it isn't the interlock relays.
The Interlock on the Automatic prevents the starter from engaging.
The airbag can stop the starter from engaging as well, so that isn't it either.
The by-pass for the No-start isn't it as that interrupts the starter as well.

So lets get back to basics.
Timing, set your timing per Ron's Static timing method (just humor me).
http://reflectionsandshadows.com/cabby/static-digi.html
Is there spark out of the coil?

Then when you turn on the ignition switch (run not start) do you hear the fuel pumps engage for 4 seconds?
If not then check the fuses.
By-pass the fuel pump relay with the horn relay. Do your pumps now run? if so replace the fuel pump relay.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> If it cranks it isn't the interlock relays.
> The Interlock on the Automatic prevents the starter from engaging.
> The airbag can stop the starter from engaging as well, so that isn't it either.
> The by-pass for the No-start isn't it as that interrupts the starter as well.
> ...


Thanks for the clarification on the interlocks brian, so thats all good news then. I've verified my timing VIA all marks is dead on. I will complete this static method tonight hopefully!! 

Will also use my spark tester to check for spark out of the coil. 

Everyone asks. are both fuel pumps on? How can i hear two, at one time from the same are????? 
I hear the " vvmmmmmmmmmmm" :facepalm: for the 4 seconds prior to startup yes but for all i know, that could be one pump, the other pump, or a combination of both. Maybe my ear just isnt that much VW Trained yet lol


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

You would only hear the one pump.
Have you tested the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and the fuel pressures?

Fuel, Air, and Spark all in the proper time.....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> You would only hear the one pump.
> Have you tested the Fuel Pressure Regulator, and the fuel pressures?
> 
> Fuel, Air, and Spark all in the proper time.....


tested the fuel pressure regulator by pulling the vacuum hose off the top after it ran for a minute or two and it seemed dry. 

Testing ALL of this is what im hoping to get to tonight. Last night i got caught up with other stuff. 

Im willing to bet that now i havent started the car in 2 days............It will fire right up. This seems to be an issue that, if i let it sit, it starts. ( O2 sensor aside ). I WILL get to the bottom of this as its bothering me more and more by the day! lol.

Let me ask though, Being as some PO routed the vacuum lines completely wrong, they were connected in the wrong places and currently are un-connected in some cases.......would this cause the starting issues im having? I couldnt see vacuum causing this but then again......its a VW and the sky is the limit.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Any Vacuum leak on the Cabriolet is a bad thing. It is better to plug them off, than to leave them open.
If the car sits and is hard to start or won't start then that is usually a Fuel Pressure issue. 
Pulling the hose off the FPR is the first step.

The second is to validate the Fuel pressures, one of them is the bleed down from the FPR back to the tank.
I had this issue once.
The second issue is that one of the cars would start and run fine for about 20 minutes. After that the FPR would re-route all fuel back to the tank and not to the fuel rain.
After about an hour or 2 the car would start and run fine for about 20 minutes.....sometimes as long as a couple of hours... then act the ass.
The FPR test nailed both of those times I had a FPR issue.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Any Vacuum leak on the Cabriolet is a bad thing. It is better to plug them off, than to leave them open.
> If the car sits and is hard to start or won't start then that is usually a Fuel Pressure issue.
> Pulling the hose off the FPR is the first step.
> 
> ...


Wow you've seriously HAD, AND FIXED just about every single issue possible on these cars havent you! :thumbup:

So, other than pulling the vacuum hose off of the top of it which i've done after it ran for about 2 minutes,
what other FPR test could be done? These things arent THAT cheap where i would just buy another one for the sake of buying another one. I need to go pickup a fuel pressure test kit tonight.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Wow you've seriously HAD, AND FIXED just about every single issue possible on these cars havent you! :thumbup:


I have been driving/owning the MK1 series since 1980 then from 2000 to 2004 was my Dry period but resumed 2004.5 with Cabriolets.
Having 2 of them being driven Daily for a few years by Daughters.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Okay peeps! 

Just did several things. First, after 2 days no trying....
Unplugged O2. Car fired rite up. 

Plugged O2 in. Nothing. 
Disconnected O2. Nothing. Coincidence?

Next i did rons static timing. I THINK i got it right. 
Set timing manually. Ensured all marks were aligned, they were, except when at TDC rotor was slightly off. OK. So i went with rons meyhod at this point. Set dist. At the spike point, rotor was slightly off i mean maybe an 1/8 of an inch after this as well. Tried starting. Same chugging till it eventually started. 

Confirmed spark while cranking from coil. Check.

Disconnected blue CTS. Still no start. Fiddled with O2 connector in and then out. Still no start. Verified 40-42 psi with key on from end little screw on fuel rail. CHECK. 

What next??? Im really lost and friend i think is starting to get anxious about me getting this car out of the garage. Not sure what to do. I neeeeed this specific help from all you pros!!!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay peeps!
> 
> Just did several things. First, after 2 days no trying....
> Unplugged O2. Car fired rite up.
> ...



Do the whole Bentley tests that is you need to pinch the hose and check for residual pressures... 
if the hose was disconnected to the FPR then 40-42 is about average.


Click on the pic, then magnify it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Do the whole Bentley tests that is you need to pinch the hose and check for residual pressures...
> if the hose was disconnected to the FPR then 40-42 is about average.
> 
> 
> Click on the pic, then magnify it.


No hoses were disconnected. Let me see if i can try this test. Thanks!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Wait a darn second......................In looking for a relacement fuel pump relay on rock-auto i found something................

These things have fuel pump inertia switches???????????? I've had a similar issue years ago with a late 90's Mercury, faulty inertia switch causing the fuel pump to cut out right as it was about to start.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

In my frustration and aggravation last night i forgot to mention a few other additional results. 

So, while doing rons test at the hall sender..................I had about .3v +/-, upon the window opening, hit hit 10.85. 
This seemed to be about every 1/4 rotation of the crank more or less i think. WHILE i was doing this....when it spiked and hit that 10.85, I heard two things 

1. The fuel pumps kicked on and ran like i had JUST turned the ignition switch to on. 
2. The coil threw a lightning bolt through the spark tester i had connected through the end of it. 

Is this correct? When the hall sender window opens THATS when fuel pumps run and the coil sends spark? 

I found this thread in searching, and its making me curious if this could be my problem? im not sure

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4471725-Hall-Sender-Testing

More to come, as i search the heck out of these forums today


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> In my frustration and aggravation last night i forgot to mention a few other additional results.
> 
> So, while doing rons test at the hall sender..................I had about .3v +/-, upon the window opening, hit hit 10.85.
> This seemed to be about every 1/4 rotation of the crank more or less i think. WHILE i was doing this....when it spiked and hit that 10.85, I heard two things
> ...


That is correct. Every time the Cylinder fires the fuel pump cycles... The fuel pumps fire with the Spark plug, they don't run continuous, but at cylinder fire time.
The voltage is a little low, I would suspect grounds as it should be 11.0v


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That is correct. Every time the Cylinder fires the fuel pump cycles... The fuel pumps fire with the Spark plug, they don't run continuous, but at cylinder fire time.
> The voltage is a little low, I would suspect grounds as it should be 11.0v


okay so then thats fairly good news that they were cycling properly and such. Does that mean my relay and fuel pumps check out 100% then? 

on Ron's breakdown of the entire process he says that it should be " around 10v"


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> okay so then thats fairly good news that they were cycling properly and such. Does that mean my relay and fuel pumps check out 100% then?
> 
> on Ron's breakdown of the entire process he says that it should be " around 10v"


I just did it last week, and I was at 11. 10 should be good... you are going from low to high.
If you do the fuel pressure tests that is one way to say yes or no to the fuel pumps.

You could also do Ron's single pump conversion on your 90ish.
Then go to the FAQ's and see my additions... Cheaper pump, and filter trick.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> I just did it last week, and I was at 11. 10 should be good... you are going from low to high.
> If you do the fuel pressure tests that is one way to say yes or no to the fuel pumps.
> 
> You could also do Ron's single pump conversion on your 90ish.
> Then go to the FAQ's and see my additions... Cheaper pump, and filter trick.


hmm. Okay thankyou!!!!!! 

IS there an adequate way that you know of to TEST this " input to the coil " ? i've tried searching with few to no results at all. 
Allegedly this will prove the ECU to be good or bad as well?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> hmm. Okay thankyou!!!!!!
> 
> IS there an adequate way that you know of to TEST this " input to the coil " ? i've tried searching with few to no results at all.
> Allegedly this will prove the ECU to be good or bad as well?


The coil is really a very large step up transfomer/Taser.
A transformer is a big amount of on the inside then wrapped in a outer coat of wire, the inside is the secondary, and the outer is the primary.
To totally test it you need an impedance meter. You can use a VOM (Digital) for a go no/go test as outlined in the Bentley.
The Bentley has a test for the ICM or what controls the coil from the ECU, as well as a pin out check on the ECU. A Noid light is going to help you on the ecu side.

The Coil will read very low resistance on the primary leads and a low resistance between the Secondary side, there should be a really higher value between the 2 sides.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

So.......Quick question.

If i use spring bolts like this, can i get away without having to use a flex piece for the exhaust? I think advanced auto by me sells these types of spring bolts.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

As long as there is a ball and socket joint there, no you don't need a flex. Granted it will probably still crack sooner or later but a flex won't help in that location. 

Regarding your starting issue.. you say it starts fine with the o2 unplugged.. how long will it run unplugged? Does it putter out or keep running?

If it is content to run with the o2 unplugged with some success, I'd be interested to check a few things.. first, I assume your o2 plug looks like this...










If so, connect your vom to the terminals shown and measure the resistance(black to brown).. see if you have a dead short...










If the car is content to run continually with the O2 unplugged, I can see it not wanting to run if for some reason the 02 is going straight to ground for some reason..

Also if it will run for at least 5 minutes with the O2 unplugged check the voltage across those two terminals.. it should be outputting somewhere between .1 and 1v. 

If you want, the O2 sensor I took pictures of is available. I have no idea how much life is left in it, but I can say the car started up and ran with it connected lol. Make it worth my while to fight with it to remove it and send it to to you and it's yours. Like $25 shipped to your door via priority mail? At least you could just slap it in and connect the plug and see if the car runs without spending 100$ on a new one or re-wiring a universal. Or if you want to swing by my place with some tools you can have it for free.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Cant be the O2. Tonight, aka just now for giggles i started my test with O2 CONNECTED. 

Again. Hasnt ran in about 2 days. 

Fired RIGHT up. Ran for a minute or two seemed okay. Smells really rich byt that could just be because im running an open header. 

Waited a minute. Tried to restart......nada.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Calling brian!!!


So i followed your installing headliner thread....word for word. Got to thw point of installing front corners with rivets.......yeah didnt work so good. Well....the rivets were great. However. The next step you said to put the top up. So i did....slowly. and this happened. Ripped the headliner right off both rivets. Now i fear my brand new headliner is shot because of these corners  

What went wrong????


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Calling brian!!!
> 
> 
> So i followed your installing headliner thread....word for word. Got to thw point of installing front corners with rivets.......yeah didnt work so good. Well....the rivets were great. However. The next step you said to put the top up. So i did....slowly. and this happened. Ripped the headliner right off both rivets. Now i fear my brand new headliner is shot because of these corners
> ...


You didn't have the chromed trim washer.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> You didn't have the chromed trim washer.


Good god that was a screwup huh!!! What can i do now with the front ripped through?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Good god that was a screwup huh!!! What can i do now with the front ripped through?


You can use a Trim ring with a little larger washer under it to increase the width of the trim cup. Also you could try getting a small washer behind the material so you are sandwiching it between steel.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> You can use a Trim ring with a little larger washer under it to increase the width of the trim cup. Also you could try getting a small washer behind the material so you are sandwiching it between steel.


Got it done. thanks brian.....Didnt use the trim ring, i just wound up using a nice large flat washer that actually grabbed the thicker seam as well as the ripped up material. The using a small washer behind to sandwich is a great idea im going to have to remember this!!!!! 



*Going to bump my post from last night for exposure on this new page. *

Cant be the O2. Tonight, aka just now for giggles i started my test with O2 CONNECTED. 

Again. Hasnt ran in about 2 days. 

Fired RIGHT up. Ran for a minute or two seemed okay. Smells really rich byt that could just be because im running an open header. 

Waited a minute. Tried to restart......nada. Could not perform the pressure tests from the bently because my phone was acting up and couldnt zoom on the picture without it getting blurry. 

SO at this point.........im going to say that the timing and O2 are both OK, atleast OK enough to allow it to start that once.... and out of the equation for now. I Think im honestly just going to buy a new FPR and see if that takes care of it.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Got it done. thanks brian.....Didnt use the trim ring, i just wound up using a nice large flat washer that actually grabbed the thicker seam as well as the ripped up material. The using a small washer behind to sandwich is a great idea im going to have to remember this!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ya Need to Buy a Bentley....
You have Replaced the CTS sensor, and have the MAF connected?
Oh and You have replaced the Vacuum hoses?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Ya Need to Buy a Bentley....


well see i have one, its just not a printed copy !!!!!! I know i need a hardcopy version ....either when i know im doing a job I print it out before i go home or i read it off my laptop. this car needs to remain as on- a- budget as possible............done a bad job with that so far!


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> well see i have one, its just not a printed copy !!!!!! I know i need a hardcopy version ....either when i know im doing a job I print it out before i go home or i read it off my laptop. this car needs to remain as on- a- budget as possible............done a bad job with that so far!


Come on man.. You can buy Bentley's off ebay for 30 bucks. Actually I have bought several for 10-20 shipped. I seriously buy a Bentley within a few weeks of buying the car(or donor if its an engine swap) if I dont have one already.. I have like 4 variations of Mk1, early and late Cabby, the Mk2, Mk3, Mk4, New Beetle, and the electronic version of the Audi TT(hate that one, wish I paid a few bucks more for the hard copy but I needed it ASAP)... Bite the bullet, get it, and you have it for life. I had my Mk2 Bentley since 1997, they dont go bad..




Derekxj said:


> *Going to bump my post from last night for exposure on this new page. *
> 
> Cant be the O2. Tonight, aka just now for giggles i started my test with O2 CONNECTED.
> 
> ...


Sorry, I planned to respond this morning once I got to work when I saw your post on my phone this morning.

I would hold off on the FPR, unless I missed a post where you said you check the FP and something wasnt right. Although Brian has seen different failure modes with them, I have only experienced one kind of FPR failure in my years, and its when the diaphragm goes bad. In that case, the car runs nasty rich not only because the FPR does not decrease the fuel pressure for vacuum, it sucks fuel up the vacuum line right into the intake. Typically if I suspect a FPR issue I just disconnect the vacuum hose from the intake and suck on it with my mouth.. If I get a taste of gas, the FPR is definitely bad.. If not, if it seems to hold my vacuum I assume its working. From there, you either have high FP which would indicate a blockage in the return line, low FP, which would indicate a supply issue(fuel pump going out, filter, etc). One other thing that's possible is the intake screen on the FPR is covered in crap... That will give you high rail pressure. 


BUT, aside from the fact that the garage stinks like hell after you run it for the few minutes, how is it running? I mean, does it fire up great then start sputtering or shuddering after a bit? Or is it just sitting there content to run as long as you will let it until you turn it off(then it wont start after that). Does it rev up smoothly when it will start or does it bog/spit/cough(both immediately after starting and after its been running a few minutes). Are you in a position to try to run it down the road even for a few seconds to see if it will power itself under load?

Another thing I would be interested to know is after its running fine and you shut it down, then you try to restart and it does not, are you still getting spark to the plugs?

What I am trying to narrow down is the difference between cold start/normal running logic in the ECU vs common ignition failure modes. At cold start, the ECU gives more fueling, all but ignores the O2(unless something is really screwy), etc. Because the ECU is programmed to provide more than enough fueling during a cold start, certain senor issues may not show up until the ECU gets out of its cold start scenario. When ignition modules start to go out, when they quit working is a function of heat. On a cold start they are fine. But after they get some heat in them from working, they quit working.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Come on man.. You can buy Bentley's off ebay for 30 bucks. Actually I have bought several for 10-20 shipped. I seriously buy a Bentley within a few weeks of buying the car(or donor if its an engine swap) if I dont have one already.. I have like 4 variations of Mk1, early and late Cabby, the Mk2, Mk3, Mk4, New Beetle, and the electronic version of the Audi TT(hate that one, wish I paid a few bucks more for the hard copy but I needed it ASAP)... Bite the bullet, get it, and you have it for life. I had my Mk2 Bentley since 1997, they dont go bad..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey folks, and thanks alot for this boosted!!!!!! Im glad you responded with all of this knowledge, mainly because A. it helps me but B. its going to be a nice little pletheror of information you've added to my thread going forward for other people that search and have a similar problem 

so........ *UPDATE*: this is going to be VERY picture heavy!

On friday after work, I found pretty much the ONLY Fuel pressure regulator in-stock at a Pep Boys which was actually local. There was an online coupon for 20%, so i got it for 34 bucks. Not a bad deal at all!!!!!!!!! prior to changing it. O2 plugged in now mind you. 

Started the car. Started right up. Waited two minutes. Tried again. crank crank crank crank crank. spit sputter caugh kick crank sputter caugh......
You get the idea. :facepalm:

Changed the FPR. After two cycles of cranking ( maybe fuel system needed to re-prime? ), it fired up. shut it down. walked away for 3-5 minutes.
came back........and BAM........She fired up again. let it run for 2-5 minutes roughly, and YES she seemed content to sit there and idle as long as i wanted to, albeit it LOUD as all hell with the open header and stinky. stuck my finger in the coolant overflow and it was starting to get on the high side of warm nearing hot, looked at my temp gauge and it hadnt really moved. perhaps it would if i let it run longer, but i dont know .
Shut it down again. waited 30 seconds. tried to start, and she didnt IMMEDIETLY start this time, but started. 

Now since the FPR change, other that that last time there that has been the only time it didnt really start right up.......... I think weve found / repaired the problem ladies and gents. I HOPE atleast. 

Saturday AM I metup with a local Vortex member to pickup my old style steering shaft, and rear parcel tray, Saturday afternoon I pushed it out of the garage to work on it in the nice weather......finished the headliner which turned into a crap show of mistakes on my end, but i also thing the headliner i received was not PERFECT fit for the car. I felt like it wasnt completely long enough, and also felt as though 
the rear portions with the loops that get the strap fed through weren't correct. Anyhow, Pictures are always good right??? 







Even with the new washers. 

I think im going to use that big fat phillips screw thats there seemingly doing nothing, and put THAT through the headliner as well on each side up front with a big washer under it. I think that should help. 





ALSO finished- refinishing the Nardi     . The GF thinks its for my car :laugh::laugh:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Prior to just Starting the CAR you need to place the Key in the ignition to the RUN (not start) wait for 4-5 seconds for the fuel pumps to prime and pressurize the lines, then START the car.
If you think that they can go key in then start, your wrong.... Allow the system to pressurize. 

The headliners are specific for 19Inch or 17Inch between the seams. If you had 19 and got 17 there is a difference. You don't have to Stretch anything.
It should be a loose fit, Hang corners front and rear then hang the rails.

Looks good tho.

ps. That big fat Phillips is holding the Latch in place.









Not saying you can't use it, just that it has a place in the food chain.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Glad it seems to be working!

Good luck on the top. Thats the part of my car that scares the hell out of me.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Prior to just Starting the CAR you need to place the Key in the ignition to the RUN (not start) wait for 4-5 seconds for the fuel pumps to prime and pressurize the lines, then START the car.
> If you think that they can go key in then start, your wrong.... Allow the system to pressurize.
> 
> The headliners are specific for 19Inch or 17Inch between the seams. If you had 19 and got 17 there is a difference. You don't have to Stretch anything.
> ...


Well honestly, Now im a bit concerned about removing it, to send it through for an additional hold on the headliner because i dont want the handle to fall off or become misaligned lol. 

The top is REALLY tight. that 17" to 19" number is a difference between seems front to back, or side to side? if its front to back, im willing to bet that this is my issue and i WILL be requesting a refund on the headliner from M&T. Its on now, and im not re-doing it...........but for it coming out somewhat like crap because of this im quite pissed. 

ANYhow, i was waiting the 4-6 seconds prior to starting...I wasnt cutting the fuel pump short of its pressurizing the system at all.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

A new problem i would like some assistance with here..............

Prior to me messing with this car in any way-shape-form, This problem did not exist. Even a few weeks ago......it didnt seem to exist. Nothing related to this has changed that i can tell, unless i inadvertently screwed something up. 

Last night when i rolled the car out of the garage, i rolled it back out completely, by myself. Went to go put it back in the garage......went to go put it back into neutral to roll it and realized. Wait a second..........................I never put it in neutral to roll it out. The cars been in park, the entire time. what the heck is going on here? 

I was able to roll it about 10-15 feet , back, and then forward IN PARK. Could the cable have randomly stretched way the heck out on me?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> A new problem i would like some assistance with here..............
> 
> Prior to me messing with this car in any way-shape-form, This problem did not exist. Even a few weeks ago......it didnt seem to exist. Nothing related to this has changed that i can tell, unless i inadvertently screwed something up.
> 
> ...


Unless the parking ratchet is engaged fully then the Transmission can move about all day long.
The Parking function of the Transmission knocks a dog lever to move the parking brake Lever in place to engage a large toothed Gear at the front of the transmission prior to the Differential.

The lever can get between the gear cogs. When this happens there is no POSITIVE engagement of the parking ring to stop the movement of the transmission, that is why when you Stop the car engage the parking brake prior to putting in to park this can happen. Ever parked on a hill, then threw the car in park with no parking brake and it rolled a wee bit? Same thing here..... In other worlds spiff happens and it should be considered normal.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Well honestly, Now im a bit concerned about removing it, to send it through for an additional hold on the headliner because i dont want the handle to fall off or become misaligned lol.
> 
> The top is REALLY tight. that 17" to 19" number is a difference between seems front to back, or side to side? if its front to back, im willing to bet that this is my issue and i WILL be requesting a refund on the headliner from M&T. Its on now, and im not re-doing it...........but for it coming out somewhat like crap because of this im quite pissed.
> 
> ANYhow, i was waiting the 4-6 seconds prior to starting...I wasnt cutting the fuel pump short of its pressurizing the system at all.


You can use it, I was just saying that the screw serves a purpose. The handle uses 3 screws to hold it in place...two at the rear, and the front one holds at the front where all the torque is.

17-19 inches are measured between the Seems front to back on your old headliner. That is the difference between the early older higher frames and the newer lower frames.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Unless the parking ratchet is engaged fully then the Transmission can move about all day long.
> The Parking function of the Transmission knocks a dog lever to move the parking brake Lever in place to engage a large toothed Gear at the front of the transmission prior to the Differential.
> 
> The lever can get between the gear cogs. When this happens there is no POSITIVE engagement of the parking ring to stop the movement of the transmission, that is why when you Stop the car engage the parking brake prior to putting in to park this can happen. Ever parked on a hill, then threw the car in park with no parking brake and it rolled a wee bit? Same thing here..... In other worlds spiff happens and it should be considered normal.


Yes i understand this methodology, but were not talking about a little bit of roll here. Im saying i rolled this car, literally as if it were in neutral, and probably could have continued rolling it...........both back and forth! What could have changed suddenly to cause this related to my work? Is there a way i can get it to positively engage the said gear cogs again?? Its simply as if there is NO park gear at all right now. This is a big problem in my eyes.



briano1234 said:


> You can use it, I was just saying that the screw serves a purpose. The handle uses 3 screws to hold it in place...two at the rear, and the front one holds at the front where all the torque is.
> 
> 17-19 inches are measured between the Seems front to back on your old headliner. That is the difference between the early older higher frames and the newer lower frames.


OK so M&T must have sent me the wrong one......They knew the year of my car, for professional Top people, manufacturing high quality products this shouldnt have been overlooked and i will be trying to get some of my money back, Ofcourse I will measure prior to opening my mouth. Thanks for the detailed info!


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> The top is REALLY tight. that 17" to 19" number is a difference between seems front to back, or side to side?.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Paging briano again!!!

I notice you mention in your headliner install DIY that you use a hose to hold that little wing down to a piece of plastic. On my car.....i cant figure out what youre referring to.where do i put this piece here in the pic??


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Paging briano again!!!
> 
> I notice you mention in your headliner install DIY that you use a hose to hold that little wing down to a piece of plastic. On my car.....i cant figure out what youre referring to.where do i put this piece here in the pic??


That is because you haven't replaced the hinge covers or hard plastic quarter covers.... Once you do you will see where the wing thing goes. You can also use those Spring paper clips which are just a good.

It is clipped to the back of the hinge cover.
Which you haven't installed yet.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Paging briano again!!!
> 
> I notice you mention in your headliner install DIY that you use a hose to hold that little wing down to a piece of plastic. On my car.....i cant figure out what youre referring to.where do i put this piece here in the pic??


Didn't you see the post above yours?
Your rear quarter panel hard plastic isn't covering your Hinge. Once you reinstall that and place your lock knob on it, you will have the extension that you need so that you can clip that wing on.

If your rear seat was installed along with the Parcel Shelf, then you would have the covers over your hinge frame installed. Once those are on, you will see that the purpose of the wing is to prevent foreign objects from rolling in to the Hinge area.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Didn't you see the post above yours?
> Your rear quarter panel hard plastic isn't covering your Hinge. Once you reinstall that and place your lock knob on it, you will have the extension that you need so that you can clip that wing on.
> 
> If your rear seat was installed along with the Parcel Shelf, then you would have the covers over your hinge frame installed. Once those are on, you will see that the purpose of the wing is to prevent foreign objects from rolling in to the Hinge area.


Sorry about that duplicate post and thanks for your response and clarification on that!!! The reason i havent replaced that stuff yet is because, on the driver side........on the bottom of the shock im missing that stupid little rubber piece along with the C -Clip for the bottom end of that top-strut and i havent been able to find a replacement of any sort yet.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> Yes i understand this methodology, but were not talking about a little bit of roll here. Im saying i rolled this car, literally as if it were in neutral, and probably could have continued rolling it...........both back and forth! What could have changed suddenly to cause this related to my work? Is there a way i can get it to positively engage the said gear cogs again?? Its simply as if there is NO park gear at all right now. This is a big problem in my eyes.!


THat is absolutely bizzare...

I am going to ask a really dumb question since I can't remember all you done to the car:

1) You have driven the car at some point and the transmission does work, right?

2) Did you remove either CV shaft from the car, and possibly forget to put it back on?

I understand what Brian was talking about, but also agree 10-15 feet is way too far... 


Assuming it is in park, roll it back and forth and see what the CV joints are doing at the transmission.. If they BOTH are rolling in the same direction and the same amount of rotation as the tires, its something in the gear box, even if that means the gear box is simply not in park...

However, if the gearbox/linkage is functioning fine and the park pawl is engaged, the only way I see this happening is something being up with the CV joints where one output flange of the trans is not in mechanical contact with the tire.. In that case, one of your trans flanges will be spinning one way and the other another way...

Sadly it is possible to bust the park pawl. I had it happen when I broke at the dragstrip.. I threw the car in park at the end of the track, and the track's rescue truck came down to pull me off. The guy put the strap on, and threw the truck in gear before I could get the car out of park and BANG..


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> THat is absolutely bizzare...
> 
> I am going to ask a really dumb question since I can't remember all you done to the car:
> 
> ...


Okay so YES it is bizarre!!! Let me answer your questions. Dont understand how any of this im about to mention could affect this problem directly......but ya'll know alot more about these devil reject mobiles than i do!!! 

So. 

1. YES i drove the car. transmission seemed to shift fine. it leaks like a siv, but it shifted fine. went through the gears. including park. and held.

2. I DID remove the pass. side CV axle completely. bolted it back in. Wheels tires obviously back on but yesterday when i was by car i looked on the bench and said. well ****! look at that..........that
sure looks like an axle washer and nut!!!!!!!!!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: In my excitement to get the wheels on and see how it looked on the ground i forgot to put the axle nut back on that side.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay so YES it is bizarre!!! Let me answer your questions. Dont understand how any of this im about to mention could affect this problem directly......but ya'll know alot more about these devil reject mobiles than i do!!!
> 
> So.
> 
> ...


Well then I hate to tell you this, but chances are very good that you have ruined the wheel bearing on that side.
With the Axle nut off the Pre-load on the bearing can be changed, and the inner race can separate a bit, but what will happen is that you may not see it now, but in less than 2000 miles you might.


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## xxStuartxx (Apr 13, 2015)

Apologies for going off topic, I'm sure normal service will be resumed, but does the Wife/Girlfriend still not know about this vehicle?
Just asking.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Well then I hate to tell you this, but chances are very good that you have ruined the wheel bearing on that side.
> With the Axle nut off the Pre-load on the bearing can be changed, and the inner race can separate a bit, but what will happen is that you may not see it now, but in less than 2000 miles you might.


A really silly mistake i know. Havent made one this dumb in a while. If the bearing goes.....it goes and i'll tackle it at that point. I just need to keep pressing forward for now. Hopefully it hangs in there for a little bit!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

xxStuartxx said:


> Apologies for going off topic, I'm sure normal service will be resumed, but does the Wife/Girlfriend still not know about this vehicle?
> Just asking.


Ah yes the million dollar question. The answer is no....she doesnt. Im hoping to be finishing it very very soon and get it on the road so i can give it to her while theres still some top-down weather to be enjoyed! :thumbup:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

What happens is that the axle nut maintains the preload on the inner race of the front wheel bearing.

What the hell is this preload?


There is no gap between the inner races of the bearing
Pre-load gone.



Here is the bearing as it usually is when you remove it.



When you press the Bearing in to the spindle you are pressing the outer housing in to the hub till is stops at the Spring Clip.


When you press the HUB in to the Spindle and Bearing, you have to support the inner race to maintain the GAP between the inner bearings, as you have the "Spring Clip" in the inside of the spindle the outer bearing race cant move, but the inner can. As you press the hub into the inner bearing you have to press against the inner race, as you tighten the press you will see the hub assembly spin as you tighten it.



Just so you understand the term Pre-Load and what it really means.. As little as a double width of a gap can ruing the bearing in as little as 30 miles.
Rolling it as little as 3 feet with out the Axle nut can destroy the preload and ruin the bearing.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> What happens is that the axle nut maintains the preload on the inner race of the front wheel bearing.
> 
> What the hell is this preload?
> 
> ...


Thankyou brian for all of this information and posting it here!!! While , coming from Jeep Land and gearing rear's and so forth i'm very familiar with the notion of pre-load and thanks to my rabbit, i'm very familiar with bearing failure as well!!! 
I have a 20 ton press just for these jobs, did the driver side on my rabbit a couple months ago it wasn't a bad job AT ALL...took me awhile being my first time doing this on a VW but it wasnt bad overall. if i had to do it on the cabby i would say i could probably get it done in a few hours ( only because the press is home, and the car is not). I will wind up replacing both axles, as well as both wheel bearings, ball joints, etc etc just not immedietly i need to be 100% sure the car will run and drive first!


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

You may or may not have damaged the wheel bearing. On a positive note, its not like you have been driving the car so there's a chance its still fine, but just sitting with the vehicle weight on it without the nut on is bad.. Unfortunately that nut not being there has nothing to do with the car rolling in park. 

I was hoping you were going to say you found you left the 6 bolts out from where the CV bolts to the trans... did you replace one of the axles or just take it out and reinstall? 

So like I say, I would roll it back and forth in park, and see if the drive flanges on the transmission are rolling in the same direction and the same amount of rotations as the wheels. If something screwy is going on with one of the joints, if the trans is in park, as you roll the car backwards the side with the good axle will be rolling backwards, and the other side flange will be rolling forwards. 

If both flanges on the trans are moving the same direction and same amount of rotations of the wheels, I would just start the car and put it in reverse and forward and see if it moves, or if you hear something you don't want to hear..

If the car moves back and forward just fine, hopefully the shifter/cable is not getting the trans all the way into park and hopefully just needs some adjustment. If its adjustable, brian can probably tell you how to do it off the top of his head.

Brian, do these cables ever fail? I might have one around here.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> You may or may not have damaged the wheel bearing. On a positive note, its not like you have been driving the car so there's a chance its still fine, but just sitting with the vehicle weight on it without the nut on is bad.. Unfortunately that nut not being there has nothing to do with the car rolling in park.
> 
> I was hoping you were going to say you found you left the 6 bolts out from where the CV bolts to the trans... did you replace one of the axles or just take it out and reinstall?
> 
> ...


Okay thanks alot for this info. Something else probably worth noting regaurding the axles..........I was planning on changing the dr. side axle because while it was in the air it seemed that when i spun the wheels ( in neutral), the dr. side axle boot was just twisting, and the boot is also blown out right by the clamp. Now if the boot is twisting......does that mean something could be going on with the outter joint at that wheel? is the driver side wheel the drive wheel? Im surely sure that these things arent Posi! lol. 

Perhaps this could all be related, im not sure. I havent touched or removed that axle on that side at all. 

Additionally, would it be alright to perform that same rolling test with the car in the air? being as its on coilovers now, it would be vertially impossible to see ANYthing underneath this car while i roll it.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> Okay thanks alot for this info. Something else probably worth noting regaurding the axles..........I was planning on changing the dr. side axle because while it was in the air it seemed that when i spun the wheels ( in neutral), the dr. side axle boot was just twisting, and the boot is also blown out right by the clamp. Now if the boot is twisting......does that mean something could be going on with the outter joint at that wheel? is the driver side wheel the drive wheel? Im surely sure that these things arent Posi! lol.
> 
> Perhaps this could all be related, im not sure. I havent touched or removed that axle on that side at all.
> 
> Additionally, would it be alright to perform that same rolling test with the car in the air? being as its on coilovers now, it would be vertially impossible to see ANYthing underneath this car while i roll it.


Theres your problem!

If the wheel was turning, and the joint was turning, but the shaft is not, theres a problem inside of the joint. It may have just become disengaged from the shaft(they slide on and then a spring clip locks them in place)..

There is no "drive wheel".. the last stage of the transmission is the differential.. It supplies power to both wheels if they have even traction.. Or(ironically) to the wheel with the least amount of traction.. Put one wheel in wet grass and one on wet pavement and stomp the gas, and flip the car around and do it again with the opposite tire on the grass.. The tire on the wet grass will always be the one to spin...

Thats why I was saying to roll it and look at the drive flanges... Now that we know its your outer joint on the drivers side, I garuntee if you roll the car backwards in park, but watch your drivers side axle shaft, it will be spinning FORWARD even though the wheel is going backwards..

On a car with an open diff(non posi), if it is jacked up and in gear or park, if you spin one tire one way the other tire spins the opposite direction.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Theres your problem!
> 
> If the wheel was turning, and the joint was turning, but the shaft is not, theres a problem inside of the joint. It may have just become disengaged from the shaft(they slide on and then a spring clip locks them in place)..
> 
> ...



Yes this is correct as far as the directional go that much i DO know lol. So you're saying that CV being messed up could cause this??? To be honest, 

It seems like that joint was actually binding or something internally causing the boot to turn but not the joint?? i dont know. 

ANYHOW something 2 nights ago happened that was VERRRYYYY weird. 

went to go try starting the car again.................Turned the ignition switch to the " on " position and i heard a " Boof" . ALMOST sounded like some compression was being released from the header. This had happened 3 nights prior to, and i THOUGHT thats what it was, but then two nights ago when it happened again well im almost positive that thats what it was. What the heck could cause this??? Its not like the starter moved or anything..........i heard it IMMEDIETLY as soon as the key hit that position.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

BoostedOne said:


> If the car moves back and forward just fine, hopefully the shifter/cable is not getting the trans all the way into park and hopefully just needs some adjustment. If its adjustable, brian can probably tell you how to do it off the top of his head.
> 
> Brian, do these cables ever fail? I might have one around here.


Yes they do fail, usually because of rough handling. ie: Bending Twisting the cable, or Dropping the Transmission and forgetting to undo the cables.
They are pretty tough though you just don't want to "kink" one and be gentle as hell with them if you have to move them about.

To adjust

Jack the car up on the driver side.
The cable is the closest one in it has a Solid Rod that is connected via a 10mm Keeper and a Barrel nut combination.
Place the Selector in park and loosen the keeper, then pull the lever arm the rod is sticking through towards you till it can't go no further...
If it already is in park move it one click from you then Pull it back to the click.... Tighten the keeper, and then verify that for each position that you move the handle it solidly clicks the lever in to place. 

If One of the CV joints is blown then that can be a part of your movement issue as if the Car is Jacked in the air one one side and in Park, you still can spin the wheels....

I usually get a helper to verify the movement of the shifter as I watch the arm.

It is really a flaky way to mount the PRNDL12 Cable, but it works... Cable on one side of the Arm, Nut on the other..


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey quick question. 

On my driver side, for the convertible top STRUT, 

On the bottom theres sapposed to be a little rubber cap piece, along with a weird C clip that holds it on. Im missing BOTH of those items on the driver side. 

Can someone tell me where i might be able to get those or something that will adequately replace it this weekend? a parts store maybe ? IDK! 

Its the only thing ( once i get the padding completely set) that will stop me from installing the outer top this weekend. 

BTW Brian.......EXCELLENT job on the DIY's!! Their just about perfect.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Hey quick question.
> 
> On my driver side, for the convertible top STRUT,
> 
> ...


Both are still available through your local Volkswagen dealer.
N90095603
171827625
http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/TopStruts.pdf

Barring that, you can use an E- or C-clip, and 2 spacers/washers of equal thickness of the cap from your local Ace or True Value.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Both are still available through your local Volkswagen dealer.
> N90095603
> 171827625
> http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/TopStruts.pdf
> ...


Thanks Kammy. ordered them!! 


SO EVERYONE. another photo-heavy update. 

Been wrenching away, slowly but surely. Got the axle nut put back on. Duhhh. Lol.

Spent a good amount of time, finishing the headliner install and then installing the padding kit ( THANKS BRIAN!!!! ). 
Also got the pastic bushing i needed for the steering column to finish getting the wheel on. SO thats all done. 

I installed the new JL audio tweeter on one side, wired in the giant alpine type X cross-over under the dashboard.....sounds fantastic. Loud and crisp. Just need to replace the 5.25's in the door as they seem like they are partially blown. No biggie. 

I also ordered a driver side axle, so hopefully i'll be able to get that in soon. Picked up a real little small 6" flex section for the exhaust. I also am going to try and get the exhaust buttoned up quite soon. Need to bleed the brakes and I SHOULD be able to try and drive this damn thing. 

Im still baffled on the whole power steering pump belt issue, and scared at the same time that the rack is no good or leaks like a siv. I know the boot is ripped on the dr. side of the rack, but idk. Its not a job im really going to try and tackle changing that rack. We'll see what happens. 

We're getting their folks. 










Not sure what these things are for, but didnt see anythign at all in brians headliner / padding threads on touching them so i assume their for the new top i see similar straps on the top. No clue how to remove the old ones at this point though now that everything is on............



Picked up some " Levi denim" to re-wrap the package tray that i recently obtained for the rear. I think it will look cool. Was going to do a dark blue Paisley bandana pattern fabric but thought it would get too busy looking against the EA interior.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Bump! 

Can someone give me some advice on what to do with these straps? Both the old, AND the new ones? They are really throwing me off here. 

Also came into some new problems getting the top on!!!! 

First, and MAJOR problem right now, 

Is that looking at the car from the back with the top down, when i eye it up it seems the right side is alot further down that the left side. So......

I go and look closely at it, and realize that the pass. side clicks RIGHT into the little latch when i close it. No problem.

The driver side however..........I REAAAAALLLYY have to push just about all of my 230 lbs ontop on that side to get it to " click " into the latch. 

Can someone help me figure out whats going on here? Nothing really looks bent as far as the arms and stuff, so im not sure what to do at this point.

The car needs to continue to come together, I cant afford to stop. Do i ignore this issue and just keep pushing through the steps to get the top on??
I really dont want to half ass this install, as i've spent alot of money, and time for the materials for this job. I dont want to have to un-Do any work i've already done either if possible.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Ah those pesky side straps what are they ever for?

They hold the outer skin through the padded layer and "POP" rivet to the frame.
They pull the outer skin in as you fold it giving you the 2 layer cake at the back when you have your top down,,,(side note: is your top opened or closed when you have it down? If it is opened when it is closed, then how can it be closed when it is up?) 





Where the straps are hitting the top




Marking the pad side for the cut for the straps.


Running the strap through the padding.


You can use a wire tie first to gauge the top and to help it fold for a bit, then go back and tighten it up and "POP" rivet it in place.
On mine I do that to get the PAD bending right.... then I "POP" it about 2 weeks later...

You still will have to stuff it at first to help it get the folding memory as I call it. 

Oh, yes it is at the bottom of my install guide, as in "what the hell are these straps for?".
http://www.toplessrabbit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2224


Your pad is not as it should be the Vinyl part should half the edge that is there should be equal vinyl on the top and side as the bottom. 
and get the wrinkles out.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Cool!!! Thanks for the update and info on the straps. 

OPEN = convertible top is retracted, and you can see the sky. 
CLOSED = convertible top is closed. Shut, you're enclosed ( This is how i interpret ). 

What do you mean the padding isnt right on the sides? I think i pretty much got all of the wrinkles out of the top. 

I'm really not sure what's going on or why anymore lol.

Any input on the whole situation with the Frame? and why one side is so hard to latch when i open it?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Cool!!! Thanks for the update and info on the straps.
> 
> OPEN = convertible top is retracted, and you can see the sky.
> CLOSED = convertible top is closed. Shut, you're enclosed ( This is how i interpret ).
> ...


t

I would suspect that seeing how the top is dry (as in not oily) lubing the hinge points helps a whole heap.

I have had 4 Cabbies, and 2 of them have similar issues, I haven't found the cure yet, but am looking. I even tried removing one strut to see if there was a difference.
I suppose it could be the hinge rivets, but that is a supposition.

Of the two that I have one will latch If I put some weight on it, the other side is the strut wont pop when the latch is pushed down, and you have to hold it down to raise the top.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> t
> 
> I would suspect that seeing how the top is dry (as in not oily) lubing the hinge points helps a whole heap.
> 
> ...


Hm.....This is very interesting. OK so you're referring to the issue im having with one side not latching, correct? If so this makes me feel a little bit better. I was concerned that the frame was bent from it being beat up by previous previous owners. 

How about the fact that my padding kit / material........when folded sticks off the back of the trunk lid over a foot and looks like a GIANT WING it looks rediculous!!! Yours looks almost flush even with the back of the car. What could cause this?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Made some progress last night. what a nightmare. Combination of Brians DIY, and the DVD that i received with the top got it done. 

Had the top half up when i was finally able to seat the entire rear bead / cable. Used a hammer and a little dowel to get the job done with the grease and all. 

Now after gluing up the front and reinstalling the metal bar and all of that im having some issues getting the drivers side to seat properly for some reason
against the seal. Not sure whats going on here. Also, unless the top is partially open, im un-able to pull the material down far enough to get that lower
rivet in on the little sail flap. Do i pop the rivet in with the top half open and THEN close it? Im worried i'll rip it or it will be WAY too tight at that point. Some help??? How am i looking so far?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*Had the top half up when i was finally able to seat the entire rear bead / cable. Used a hammer and a little dowel to get the job done with the grease and all. 
*

It can be a pain in the butt, but removing all the excess from the rear seam, I can use my hands to seat the rear cable in about 45 minutes, You have to make sure that the 
cable tray is clean, I have done 2 that the previous installer used plumbers goo in the channel.
Placing the cable in the Cable tray.


Using fingers to get it run.


It will hold itself in place.




*Now after gluing up the front and reinstalling the metal bar and all of that im having some issues getting the drivers side to seat properly for some reason
against the seal. Not sure whats going on here. Also, unless the top is partially open, im un-able to pull the material down far enough to get that lower
rivet in on the little sail flap. Do i pop the rivet in with the top half open and THEN close it? Im worried i'll rip it or it will be WAY too tight at that point. Some help??? How am i looking so far? *



I see a couple of things. Did you make the relief cut in the top where the Cable comes from the outside, and re-enters.

Making the cut: do not cut through the seam.

2. You have to pull the top edge down and over Glue the Frame, and then the back side of the vinyl. let it dry. Yes the top is half opened and you have a safety bar in place.

You will pull the side frame material over so that the edge is against the edge of the frame can be a little curled over or pulled inward a wee bit. 
Once you have the side material glued (notice how the edge is below the frame a wee bit, it has to.).. "pop" the rivet.
Install your rear seal Frame TRAY. Do not try to close the top until you have got the rear seal tray in place. Make sure your seal tray is to the outside of the frame so that it butts against the edge seam If not then reseat the vinyl to get it closer....


Now it will be tight, when you close it so let it close on it's own it wont tear, let the weight of the top do the work on it's time, if you can place it out in the sun so much the better.

Lastly on the side frames it appears that your cable isn't tight enough. as there is the bow.
 

It could be due to the fact that your sides aren't completed, but you need to make sure. 

There are 2 different kinds of cable attachment points and the length of the cables is different.
See: Not all frames are the same.

Hope it helps.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *Had the top half up when i was finally able to seat the entire rear bead / cable. Used a hammer and a little dowel to get the job done with the grease and all.
> *
> 
> It can be a pain in the butt, but removing all the excess from the rear seam, I can use my hands to seat the rear cable in about 45 minutes, You have to make sure that the
> ...



Thanks alot brian!! Great info helps alot. 
I followed your DIY the best i could, i kept getting jammed up so i improvised to the best I could!! lol. 
As for the rear cable. I finally got it like i said with a little persuasion, it seems like its pretty good, nice and tight and fully seated. 

The sides of the top actually already had a relief of sorts, I can snap a photo of this later on but it didnt require me to make such a relief cut. M&T tops. 
So you're saying that with those little side wing's by the rear window.........I need foam tape under the seal trays ??? and i put the seal tray in BEFORE inserting the pop rivet? 
I believe when i took it apart, the pop rivet was under the seal tray. Interesting............ 

What do i do about the front bow by the windshield seal? Do i need to take apart the front where it slipped over the frame and re-do that bead so the entire bead points down? 

MY side cable front attachement points look like this .

http://s3.photobucket.com/user/briano1234/media/stephanietop/DSCI0022_zps81rmilsc.jpg.html

I had to ( honestly ) , take a guess at the cable legnths! I had the top a little bit pushed off the windshield, not fully closed or open........and i drew the cable nice and tight through the spring so the spring was springing............and thats where i set the loop and crimped. I looked all over last night for that dimension to make it and couldnt find it! Doh!!! So, Do i need to redo THESE now also? lol. I havent yet put those side-straps on.......not sure how much of a difference that will make.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*The sides of the top actually already had a relief of sorts, I can snap a photo of this later on but it didnt require me to make such a relief cut. M&T tops. *

There is no relief cut in any of the 10 or so tops I have ever installed.

So you're saying that with those little side wing's by the rear window.........I need foam tape under the seal trays ??? and i put the seal tray in BEFORE inserting the pop rivet? 

Re-read my corrected text.
"You will pull the side frame material over so that the edge is against the edge of the frame can be a little curled over or pulled inward a wee bit.
Once you have the side material glued (notice how the edge is below the frame a wee bit, it has to.).. "pop" the rivet.
Install your rear seal Frame TRAY. Do not try to close the top until you have got the rear seal tray in place. Make sure your seal tray is to the outside of the frame so that it butts against the edge seam If not then reseat the vinyl to get it closer...."


*MY side cable front attachement points look like this .

http://s3.photobucket.com/user/briano1234/media/stephanietop/DSCI0022_zps81rmilsc.jpg.html

I had to ( honestly ) , take a guess at the cable legnths! I had the top a little bit pushed off the windshield, not fully closed or open........and i drew the cable nice and tight through the spring so the spring was springing............and thats where i set the loop and crimped. I looked all over last night for that dimension to make it and couldnt find it! Doh!!! So, Do i need to redo THESE now also? lol. I havent yet put those side-straps on.......not sure how much of a difference that will make.[/QUOTE]
*

In my DIY and in the Not all frames are the same the dimensions are listed for both new and old style of frames, loop-to-loop measurements as well as how to make them you can't guess. It is with in a 1/4 inch variance in length over not under. Use the flat brass chain, your side cables will out last the top.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Your cable on the side isn't quite right, you need to pull more material to fold up, as the cable is showing which means to me it isn't in the correct position. 
You should be able to loosen the cable a bit and pull a wee bit more material out, so you can fold it up and under so there is no cable showing.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

I am up to about 15 tops installed, my current project is still a Cabriolet, just a different body style.


yeppers 1 owner 78 VW Super Beetle EFI no air 78000 Have done inner and outer scrapers as well as door seals, and windshield seal...Now I have just the top, headliner and pad to do.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Wait. The rear cable or the side cable? Where is it showing? Lol i cant even see and im looking at the car now! Maybe i dont need the relief because i trimmed the inside piece off all the way up to the seam? How difficult at this point in the game would it be to adjust my side cables tighter? Can i do this after the side wings are on, and by " test / fit" unt the top front sides pull down more? Ive alreDy got so much of it together :/

BEAUTIFUL beetle!!!!!!!!!!!! You do fine work my friend.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)




----------



## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Wait. The rear cable or the side cable? Where is it showing? Lol i cant even see and im looking at the car now! Maybe i dont need the relief because i trimmed the inside piece off all the way up to the seam? How difficult at this point in the game would it be to adjust my side cables tighter? Can i do this after the side wings are on, and by " test / fit" unt the top front sides pull down more? Ive alreDy got so much of it together :/
> 
> BEAUTIFUL beetle!!!!!!!!!!!! You do fine work my friend.


Driver side of the car, the cable where it comes around the corner to the "cut" I can see cable in the side bead. This means that your side isn't as neat as it could be.


Now the stiffing rod may help but get it tucked prior to setting the "wings".
No you can't really get to the rear cable with the wings glued. Side cables it is doable from the inside, but a pain not a PITA, or ROYAL pain, just a pain. You would also have to half raise the top.

It is easier to get the side cables with the wings unglued. Total length of the side cables are 37 1/4 inches loop to loop. When I do a cable, it can't be undone...
*How I make side Cables NOTICE this is a link.... No guess work needed.*

If you trimmed it well then the relief cut may not be needed.

I stated in my DIY, it is a STEP by Step Process, no skipping about. I haven't seen the cd or dvd version that is for sale as the French Factory links to the videos are pretty well. You can learn a lot from them.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Driver side of the car, the cable where it comes around the corner to the "cut" I can see cable in the side bead. This means that your side isn't as neat as it could be.
> 
> 
> Now the stiffing rod may help but get it tucked prior to setting the "wings".
> ...



THANKS ALOT!!!!!!!!! I guess im going to be messing with these side-cables tonight now, getting some vinyl string like was in there that i used to originally snake and snaking them out, then back in after i REDO the crimps in the PROPER locations. Why do i need to use the gold sash chain? How is it better than just using a regular loop / crimp? I guess i need to go buy a couple more crimps!!!!! 

THATS What those two little metal rods are for?????? Where exactly do they go???? 

Thanks again! Im going to really owe you a case of Guinness when this car is all done lol.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> THANKS ALOT!!!!!!!!! I guess im going to be messing with these side-cables tonight now, getting some vinyl string like was in there that i used to originally snake and snaking them out, then back in after i REDO the crimps in the PROPER locations. Why do i need to use the gold sash chain? How is it better than just using a regular loop / crimp? I guess i need to go buy a couple more crimps!!!!!
> 
> THATS What those two little metal rods are for?????? Where exactly do they go????
> 
> Thanks again! Im going to really owe you a case of Guinness when this car is all done lol.


At the attachment point at the front of the frame, if you have the loop eye there, when you open the top, the cable will flex at the crimp. Over time, that flexing the cable at the ferrule will break, gauranteeeeeeed. I looked for a solution to that issue as I had broken a few side cables, and found that the flat brass plumbers chain 2 links worth would allow the flexure of the cable assembly on to the chain and the flat chain pivots well. I have re-used a set I did on my Green Car on the second replacement, they are still good.

Every top I have replaced and every one in the yards that I have seen, and that has been quite a few, have the cables breaking at the ferrule as when you crimp the ferrule it stiffens the cable and makes it rigid right before and after the Ferrule. 

Regular cable with top folded no brass chain the cable is taking all the flex right after the ferrule


Flat chain attached, all the stress of the bend is on the chain not the cable.


Now I wouldn't advocate something that isn't a benefit. Be Like Nike.... JUST DO IT...... 

I did run across a wrecked Cabbie once, and I saw that the cable was sort of intact, so I measured the length as it was fitting nicely. I then started to measure a one owner, car that still had the original factory top installed, the cables were all 37 1/4 long give or take a 1/4 inch. 

In all your how to's Even Forrest Kings, no body tells you the proper length.... but now through the diligent relentless research you now know, that there are 2 styles of cable attachment points, Each different frame has a different length of cable and how to run it... Each has a carefully thought out correction to stop a problem prior to it breaking.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Very detailed. Awesome info im going to fix this once and for - all tonight, along with re-doing the front fitment at the header bow and making the ENTIRE thing curl down 90 degrees so it sits flat against the seal. Maybe if i get through all of that i'll get back to messing with the rear-sides. 

So where exactly do those metal stiffening rods go?

Does that specific legnth you give for the side cables INCLUDE the 2 chain links, or does that NOT include the 2 chain links? 

Do you think that my side-cables are long enough to the point that i can get away with clipping the ferrels up at the front and re-doing the loop into the chain and still have that 37.25 measurement? 


I hope all of this helps the way the top closes because as of now, it closes like $hit. It sticks out of the back of the car way off the back of the trunk lid as if its almost missing a few folds, and looks something like this. 











I dont know how you folks get your tops to lay so nice and crisp and flat when they are down in the back.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*OK, 

Last time. The maximum length of the side cable on your car Can't Exceed 37 1/2 inches. If you use the brass chain or not the end to end value can't be longer than 37 1/2 inches. The Preferred length is 37 1/4.
*
Read my how to make side cables, take a headless nail Pound it in a board that is 4 foot long.
Take another nail and pound it in the board 37 1/4 inches away center to center.

Take one of your cables, and make a loop with a ferrule and crimp hard.
Take the free end of the cable, put the ferrule over the free cable, wind it around the other nail, feed the free end through the cable and pull it tight.
Use a sharpie across both cables so you know where to lock the crimp. Loosen the cable off the nail align the marks Crimp. You now have a 37 1/4 inch cable.
If you use the Brass chain place the brass chain over the free nail, then place the Cable through the end eye of the brass chain. PULL IT TIGHT mark the Cable loosen, off the nail realign the marks, and Crimp. You will have a cable that is 37 1/4 inches long from loop to the end of the brass chain.


The Poof in your Back side is because the Side straps aren't riveted, or too loose and you need to tighten them up.


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## Tisser (Dec 25, 2014)

Nice progress dude! Any chance you're gonna ship that stuff any time soon?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Yes shipping out tomorrow for you. Been working alot and Post office closes well before I get home.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *OK,
> 
> Last time. The maximum length of the side cable on your car Can't Exceed 37 1/2 inches. If you use the brass chain or not the end to end value can't be longer than 37 1/2 inches. The Preferred length is 37 1/4.
> *
> ...


Sorry for being Thick headed. Sometimes, like i did last night..........I really just need to stop being a computer monkey while at work, and actually DO things to full understand, and comprehend what goes on / what needed to happen. 

MAN those cables are tight. My cables, were about 40" give or take an inch or so on each side. No wonder why the sides were so Crappy looking. 
Thanks again as always MR. Briano! 

I spent about 2.5 hours doing this, mainly because A. I was learning / reading along the way. And B. I couldnt find 1/16" hose to cover the new wire i bought and luckily my cables that were coated were SO far too long that i was able to re-use them and get the 37 1/4 out of them.......Until i had a band crimp on the pass. side and SNAP! Yayyyyy time to fish the cable out of the pocket in the top it retracted in about 14". What a pain!!! Re-doing this one took about an hour all said and done. Used the new galvanized cable. Didnt have any tubing to cover it like i said but i can always take this one back out down the road and re-do it with protective tubing. Picture time!!!! Tonight i will be working on those rear-side Flaps. Cant seem to find one of the little reinforcing/stiffening bars, I know its around somewhere just have to clean up to find it. I Assumed they slip into the rubber tube at the bottom rear side of the top so thats where i slipped her in. 

MUCH better on the sides, the top is much tighter now also. Its not perfect, but its also my first top and any type of work like this on a car. 






This only occurs in this one spot. Other side is fine. Im not sure why this is happening. Cables are EXACTLY the same length on both sides, yet on the dr. side i can see the gold chain a little bit, pass. side i cannot. I think it may be the front underside of the frame where it hooks may be bent a little bit somehow causing this. 





Also going to attempt to re-do the front bead tonight and this time REALLY bend the entire thing down 90 degrees. You can see how the pass side is golden and the driver side is pointed in the wrong direction causing that gap between the bead and the seal.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Once you get the sides pulled down the remaining hump in the side should go away.
But Getting the correct length of side cable helped you more than you know...

With the top half opened, or Half closed Pull the sides in and down so that the inside of the "flap" is slightly below the hinge, be sure to apply a good spray glue to the side frame metal, and the back of the "flap" pull it down and to the front it wouldn't hurt to have it curl in a bit, you should be alright. Be sure that replace the seal tray and fitment is against the beaded Edge of the top BOTH SIDES PRIOR TO ATTEMPTING TO ALLOW THE TOP TO SELF CLOSE...(as it will stretch) A top outised on a good Sunny DAY will easily stretch.. Once you are all done.... Leave the top up about a week.

Did you adjust the eccentrics so that the frame Barely rides on the "B" pillar as that can also cause the Humpity that you are having.


If you go to Ron's or Kammy's site, peruse them to the Forrest King 2 page word document, you will see what we all were working with prior to me writing down my tricks and tips in a install document.

Lastly when replacing the frame seals on the front and sides be sure that you move them to the outside as close to the outer edge that you can get them. The front seal will move in a angle as the front screw is set, but if you leave it loose a wee bit the other end of the seal will move to the outside sort of diagonally.

Getting the curl on the front on a new top is a pain in the arse, I have had to reset that myself even after "curling the lip to about 270 degrees inward. The top has to stretch and that bead at the front takes all the stress.....

From the picture your "J" hooks need to be tighten if it is truly latched.... but make sure your eccentrics are set correctly first.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *Once you get the sides pulled down the remaining hump in the side should go away.
> But Getting the correct length of side cable helped you more than you know...
> 
> With the top half opened, or Half closed Pull the sides in and down so that the inside of the "flap" is slightly below the hinge, be sure to apply a good spray glue to the side frame metal, and the back of the "flap" pull it down and to the front it wouldn't hurt to have it curl in a bit, you should be alright. Be sure that replace the seal tray and fitment is against the beaded Edge of the top BOTH SIDES PRIOR TO ATTEMPTING TO ALLOW THE TOP TO SELF CLOSE...(as it will stretch) A top outised on a good Sunny DAY will easily stretch.. Once you are all done.... Leave the top up about a week.*


Okay so I think i've got a good handle on what i need to do with these side flaps. I read your directionals on this part through about 15 times atleast to sink it into my thick head! I think i'll be finishing all of this work this weekend, with the car pushed outside hopefully we get some heat and it will allow the top to stretch out a little bit for me! 



briano1234 said:


> *Did you adjust the eccentrics so that the frame Barely rides on the "B" pillar as that can also cause the Humpity that you are having.*


I just saw the picture diagram of the top frame pointing out the eccentrics. I didnt touch these things. I CAN tell you though, 
that now with the side cables in...........this top is TIGHT. I have the J hooks adjusted way in, and i actually have to push down and forward with some force on the outside of the top to get the J hooks to actually catch, and there is a very very very firm lock when i lock the handles down. 



briano1234 said:


> *If you go to Ron's or Kammy's site, peruse them to the Forrest King 2 page word document, you will see what we all were working with prior to me writing down my tricks and tips in a install document.
> 
> Lastly when replacing the frame seals on the front and sides be sure that you move them to the outside as close to the outer edge that you can get them. The front seal will move in a angle as the front screw is set, but if you leave it loose a wee bit the other end of the seal will move to the outside sort of diagonally.
> 
> ...


Maybe Kammy can chime in but i cant find these word documents, just looked through the whole convertible top section unless i missed it. 

As for the frame seals on the front sides, I just saw your " newest re-write " off of cabby info that details your whole proceedure on this. I'll try to follow along as best as i can when i get to this point. Like i said though, my J hooks are adjusted way in and it takes some force from the outside, both down AND forward to even lock in the J's to the Catches........I dont want this to be a huge problem for my somewhat small and not too strong girlfriend to do when the car gets handed over to her possession. 

Im going to go hunt down some information on adjusting those eccentrics first. Maybe thats my problem.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Your top still has to stretch, so that makes it harder initially.

Also, do play with the eccentrics. Just loosen the bolt and turn it either which way; you cannot break anything here.

If your latches are really hard to close, loosen the j hooks too. But first, play with the eccentrics.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay so I think i've got a good handle on what i need to do with these side flaps. I read your directionals on this part through about 15 times atleast to sink it into my thick head! I think i'll be finishing all of this work this weekend, with the car pushed outside hopefully we get some heat and it will allow the top to stretch out a little bit for me!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Forrest King's document in it's entirety Nothing added nothing taken away.

Cabriolet Top Replacement Experience
Forrest King

Warning: Any attempt to repair you car may cause problems. I am not responsible for your car, your errors, or your economic losses resulting from your use of this information. 

Ok folks, I drive a 1991 Cabriolet that originally came with a dark blue canvas top. After sitting for a few years while the previous owner was inn possession, the top was a bit dilapidated. The canvas was torn left to right all the way across the top at the first fold point (about 1 foot aft of the header). I shopped around in my region and was quoted astronomical prices for the replacement of just the outer ‘shell’, anywhere from $675 at an upholstery shop to $1300 at Brad Noe VW in Tulsa, OK. After peaking with one of the local upholstery shops on the phone I stopped by to check out their operation and let them see the tops actual condition. This is when I decided to replace the top myself- the guy was going on and on about how much experience you need to do this repair and how VW tops are by far the most difficult, and then I met his shop help. The shop help was 17 and was in desperate need of some education, he had been working for the guy for 2 weeks and was in the process of replacing a Mustang top- alone.

PREPARATION (physical and mental)

Some required knowledge: The VW top is held on by three cables, one at the back and two on the sides. The side cables must be replaced and are available at your local VW Dealership for about $11 US. The rear cable can be reused and you will most likely want to do this as it costs $93 US at your dealer. The best place to learn about the VW top is the replacement top. I suggest you lay it out on your living room floor and just take it in for a few minutes. You will notice that there is no hole for the rear window, DO NOT TRY TO MAKE ONE NOW. You will also notice that there is a ‘pocket’ at the front of the new top, this is where the top is slipped over the frame on your car, it is the attachment point for the front of the car. You will see a thick bead stitched into the rear of the rear of the replacement top, this is where the rear cable runs and is the attachment point for the rear of the top. The sides have slots that run ½ the length of the entire top, or the area over the windows if you can picture this. These slots are for the side cables, these cables and their accompanying springs are the attachments for the sides of the top.

I searched locally and on the internet for other people who had replaced VW Cabby tops themselves and found a few great references, I will include these links at the end. After viewing their reports I created a list of tools that I would need, it included all of these: 
•	Screwdrivers, Phillips and flat
•	Utility Knife (or razor)
•	Craftsman 9mm/10mm offset ratcheting wrench (pt # 43367)
•	Wooden clothespin 
•	Spray Glue, 3M or other reputable brand, get the strongest bond.
•	Pliers, needle nose preferably 
•	Electric staple gun (with staples and extension cord if needed)
•	Roll of nylon string- not cotton and not rope
•	Miscellaneous other hand tools, including wrenches and sockets. 
A critical tool in the replacement of my top was the Craftsman Offset Ratcheting Wrench, it brings a certain amount of ease to a horribly difficult situation. Read On. 

To start, remove the lower bench of the rear seat, it is held in by 2 screws on the front lip of the seat- that’s all. Remove the package tray, that is the piece covered in carpet that hides the contents of your trunk. Fold down the rear seat, you do this by pulling the knob hidden under the trunk door and then pulling the strap located on the side of the rear seatback near the top. Leave the trunk lid open. The seat back should fold down nearly flat. Removing all of these components will create more working area in your car and give you places to contort your body while attempting to remove the rear cable. Now look under the package tray sides (the parts that remained in the car), you will see the headliner is stretched over some points to hold it tight. Grasp the headliner and pull is firmly but gently in the direction of the points to remove it. After you do this to all of the points the headliner will hang loosely from the top. Roll down all of the windows. Pop the latches for the top but do not fold the top yet. 

Now is a good time to look at the side cables of your top- study them, make drawings, take pictures- whatever you need to do in order to create that same setup later. 

REMOVAL OF THE LID

Note: In this section I am going to cover the removal of the top. The VW Cabby top goes on in exactly the same manner that it comes off, so once again study, take notes or take pictures. I found the best way was just to look at how the pieces worked and understand the system of parts. 

First, the rear window must be removed. This is a very simple use of brute strength. Crawl inside the car and have a friend stand outside of the car at the rear window. Place the palm of you hand, with as much surface area of your hand contacting the glass as possible, on the rear window at the upper corner. PUSH. The glass will slowly start to come out of the seal and will come right out after you release the initial hold of the seal. Have your buddy catch the window if you become overzealous in your pushing efforts, otherwise have him gently tug at the glass to free it. Now pull the window seal out and set it aside. Get your flat head screwdriver and remove ALL of the staples that hold the old top to the rear window frame (yes folks, they stapled it together). Once you remove the staples you can look around the inside of the top- study up.

Next, remove as much of the top as you can with your handy utility knife. To remove the center section would be more than enough. Remember you are throwing this old top away, so feel free to sacrifice it in order to learn as much as you can. I suggest cutting it from about 1 foot behind the header, down the seams along each side, and across the back just below the rear window frame. 

At the front of the top there is a metal bar that crosses the header, it has some brackets that hold the corners on also. Start by removing the brackets at the corners and placing the hardware in plastic zipper bags, or visually separating them on a counter or other work surface. Remove the corner brackets and then remove all of the screws holding the header bar. You should then be able to pull the header bar off, taking care not to bend it. Now move you focus to the sides of the top. You will notice that there are rubber seals covering the area where screws would be. These rubber seals slide out of their brackets, but be very careful as they are no longer available from the dealer and are very expensive to locate. Once you have slid out all three of the seals on each side you will see the metal brackets that hold the seals and you should be able to see the screws that hold the bracket to the top frame. On some cars the screws were covered with tape that makes a sticky mess when you try to remove it. But alas, the screws must be removed. After you remove all of the brackets you will then notice that the top is also glued to the frame, notice how this is done because we will be putting the replacement top on in the same fashion. Peel the top off of the frame and look around inside. Notice the spring tensioners for the side cables. Now is a good time to remove the side cables. Use your needle nose pliers to remove the cables at the front and then slip them off at the rear spring. Pull the springs out, but notice where they came from. You will need these old side cables to make the new side cables the correct length- do not cut them or throw them away, you may have to cut the top to get them out. Now you should be able to remove most of the top, if you cut the top like I suggested above you will be able to remove everything except the last few inches of the rear. These last few inches of the rear are where the cable is holding the top on. This cable is inside of a lip that is formed into the car chassis, the top is laid over the lip, and then the cable over the top. The cable is pulled tight and it sucks the top into the groove created by the lip- a neat little setup by Mr. Karmann. To remove this cable you have to crawl inside the car and lie on your back. The end of the cable is located behind the rear window and down inside the body of the car. Use the 10mm ratcheting offset wrench to loosen the nut on the end of the cable. If you intend to reuse this cable it is imperative that you use a backup wrench while loosening this cable (and when tightening it later) otherwise you will twist the end off of it and add 100 dollars to your bill. Once the cable is loose at one end switch to the other side and remove that nut, it should be easier now. After removing both nuts retreat to the outside of the car. Drink a Dos Equis, you deserve it. Pull on the last scrap of the top that is still on the car, you will be pulling out the cable also. Notice how the cable lays over the top and how these two fit into the groove below the lip- study, take pictures, whatever. You have now removed the entire top. Place the rear cable in a safe area with its corresponding nuts. Boy you are screwed if it starts raining. 

REPLACEMENT OF THE LID

You are more than half way done, if you have taken the time to observe the methods used to attach the top you will have no problems from here on out. 

Now take the top and put it over the empty frame. Do not try to put the frame in the pocket, or do anything right now, just place the top on the car and visualize what you are doing. It looks nice doesn’t it. 
To start the operation you will need to put the top back on the ground. Go find the side cables you saved from earlier, and the new cables you bought at the dealership. The new cables came straight (not pre crimped). Take this time to put a crimp on the ends of the cable and fish a string or fish tape thru the slot in the replacement top. Tape the end of the new cable to the fish tape and pull it thru. Let the cable sit there quietly for now. Place the new top back on the frame, this time seat the frame in the pocket of the top. Now is the time to attach the header bar. Be careful and try to get the front bead of the top to sit flat against the windshield frame. If you mess up don’t worry, you can re do this later to get the front edge of the top to seat correctly. You will most likely be doing this while standing on your front seats with the top in a half open position. Leave the top in this half open position and head to the back of the car. You are now going to thread the rear cable through the slots in the top and into the body of the car. This step is frustrating because the top can pop out of position and be generally difficult, if your helper has not consumed all of your beer use him to hold the top and cable in place. You may find it easier to thread the cable through the top on one side only and then slip inside of the car and screw a nut on the end of the cable just a few threads. You can then return outside and continue trying to line up the top and the cable. The idea here is to have the cable sit just above the bead on the rear of the top and directly over the groove. If you can get this to line up you are doing great. You will then want to slip the other nut onto the other end of the cable (if you have not already done this in the course of trying to line it all up). Using the backup wrench and the ratcheting 10mm put a small amount of tension on the cable. The Physics of tightening the cable to draw the top into the groove are all wrong. YOU WILL BREAK THE CABLE IF YOU TRY TO PULL THE TOP INTO THE GROOVE BY SIMPLY TIGHTENING THE CABLE. Use the end of the wooden clothespin to get the top and cable into the groove, a rubber mallet will help too, but don’t tap the clothespin hard enough to tear the top. You can also position the clothespin on the cable, then you have to worry a little less about tearing the top, but it requires more force to seat the cable if you choose this manner. I suggest you start in the center and work your way to each edge. Have your friend keep an eye on it, too, and make sure the top does not go on crooked. Once the entire cable/top/groove system is seated you will need to return to the inside and tighten the 10mm nuts, using the backup wrench, tighten this up until you are worried. The tighter the better, unless you get it too tight and then you have to buy a new one… The sides and rear should all tuck in nicely as you tighten this cable, have your now drunk friend gently use the clothespin to insure it all fits. Now, drink a few Dos Equis yourself, that nut on the cable is a bear. (you should be at 3 beers in about 4 hours so far.)
Now is the time to close the top. You want to make sure when it latches that it pulls the wrinkles out of the top and looks good. The sides should still be hanging loose at this point. Look at the front of the top, where the bead of the top contacts the windshield frame. You want that bead to be flush and uniform, so get your Phillips screwdriver out and make a few adjustments and see if you can get it to look nice.
The sides are relatively easy. If you did the rear cable then you can do heart surgery and ice sculpture- the sides should be a piece of cake. Attach the side cables to the front attachment point and then re-assemble the spring tensioner assembly. Refer to your pictures, notes or beer bottle diagrams at this point to ensure correctness. 

Glue time. Get the upholstery glue that you purchased, it should be a strong glue that has a high release point temperature- 3M is good, but avoid their 77 and Super 77. Use a piece of cardboard to shield the interior of your car and spray small amounts of glue to the frame rails. You are applying glue to the part where the seals and seal brackets mount, NOWHERE ELSE. After you apply the glue pull the flaps on the top around the frame and stick them to the glue. Follow the Glue Manufacturers directions in regards to if you should place glue on each piece to be assembled, or just on one. Once you have satisfactorily positioned each of the three flaps you are going to install the seal mounting brackets. These brackets act as a clamp to ensure that nothing flops loose at 75 MPH. You will attach all of the brackets making sure to place them in the correct position and side from which they originally came; NO, they are not all the same. Once you have attached the brackets you will want to use the utility knife to remove the excess material on the inside of the bracket. Taking your time and cleaning up really pays off here, under the hood it doesn’t matter too much, but in upholstery work cleanliness counts towards functionality. 

The seals slide into the seal brackets. Using Vaseline or another lubricant is helpful. Silicone spray is always a good bet when trying to lube rubber parts. Take care in replacing the rubber seals, think $$$$. I have seen a used set of these sell for $200+. 
After you have replaced the side rubber seals and are happy with the way the front fit you are going to want to trim the material from beneath the header bar. Take care to not cut through the headliner and really foul things up. You should be able to at this point, close the top and get in the car. You should be able to roll up the windows, and sit in peace within the confines of your car and drink another Dos Equis. 

While you are consuming the adult libation you may notice that you can’t see jack out the rear window. This is because the rear window is sitting on the love seat in the family room. You can drive your car at this point and it looks really cool. It appears to be a mix between the European Golf Vans and a Cabriolet. 

REPLACING THE LOOKING GLASS

The rear window is an easy installation. If you stopped and drove your car for a few weeks like I did then this additional step should take 45 minutes including setup and installation. If you are continuing on then it should be another 30 minutes or so. 

Feel around the rear window to figure out where the frame is, you are going to have to cut a hole inside the dimensions of the rear frame without getting even the slightest bit out of the lines, I suggest you cut small and then staple. Yes, staple. 

You should cut an X shape through the top within the window frame, you are going to need to make relief cuts in the top material at the corners in order to get it to lie down without wrinkles. THE TOP MUST BE CLOSED AND LATCHED COMPLETELY BEFORE CUTTING OR STAPLING. Be sure to not cut a circle out as this severely limits the amount of material you have left to tug on. You will pull the material taught and then use the electric staple gun to fire staples through the top material into the frame of the window. The frame is wooden if you are wondering, they just paint it black to match the interior. Now that you have stapled all the way around the frame taking care to use at least as many staples as the factory did you are read to pop the rear glass in place. If you have ever installed a wind shield into a gasket type setting then you are used to this. If not, read on. 

Take the rear window gasket and install it onto the rear window. Get a roll of nylon string and wrap the string around in the seal groove at least twice, if not more. If you have never done this before you will be wrapping the string and trying over, so don’t fret. If you complete the following steps twice without success drink Dos Equis and then come back to it. 

You have the string wrapped around the seal, so set the window up against the outside of the car. Have your slowly sobering buddy hold it in place. Crawl inside of the car and find the END of the string (not the beginning…), gently pull the string at a 90 degree angle from the plane of the glass. This will roll the lip of the seal in and allow the whole thing to seat nicely. You wrapped the string twice or more so that parts of the gasket do not roll in on the first lap around the window they will have another chance on the next lap. VW windows fit well and this should be easy for anyone who can butter bread. 

CLEAN UP

You are now finished replacing the top. Congratulations. Send me pictures: [email protected] preferably of each step and the completed deal. Put your tools away and then go inside and apologize to your significant other. You are a touch too tipsy to drive so maybe have a nice dinner at home or have the previously mentioned significant other drive to dinner. 

I hope this helps. If you have problems with my spelling or grammar feel free to make a contribution towards my tuition: Forrest King, 1807 S. Jackson Ave #A, Tulsa, OK 74107. 
SOURCES

Top: World Upholstery, 1-800-222-9577 . Please tell them I sent you. The lady who answers the phone is a RUDE, but the product is amazing and fits perfectly. Better quality than JCWhitney. I paid $218 shipped for a vinyl cabriolet grain top in a custom blue. 

Wrench: Sears. Buy the damn wrench. You will thank me. 

Online Resources: 
http://pages.cthome.net/frank.vanhaste/vwragtop.html (a good reference) 
http://www.vwinteriorsandtops.com/



*Now aren't you glad there is a pictorial that is more detailed?*


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Maybe Kammy can chime in but i cant find these word documents, just looked through the whole convertible top section unless i missed it.


I have Forrest King's original write-up in my archives, but it's no longer on the server. I removed it long ago because it was so archaic compared to Brian's and Ross' write-ups. Props to Mr. King for providing a needed tool way back when, but it's so outdated at this point, there's simply no need for it. :beer:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Okay so here i am, now the village idiot....
Ive read about 20 threads about this, read through brians post about 15 times on how to do this. Did it and thought i nailed it. Pretty upset right now!!!!! Where did i go wrong? I had the top half up when i did it. Perfect 90 on the bottom. Bottom bead flush with seal tray. I just dont know! Paging the pros.....


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

I need to see the back side of the top, that is a good shot showing the top from the rear so i can see the seams, and how they run from the rear to the front.
I need to see the front seal at the windshield, and both corners. 
lastly a good side on shot of the left and right sides.

The corners look correct, the top of the flap is about 2 1/2 inches from the top of the frame when it is seated correctly. The only thing I do different is to Pry the little white screw holders out, so the material lays flat.

don't worry, ya haven't screwed it up yet. 

Yes 11:34pm and I am going out side to open up both of my cabbies tops to verify what you are showing in relation to what I know is right for the wings, and it looks correct on yours. 

The seams may tell me a tad bit more..

Where did you order the top from?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Youre the best brian. 

Pretty bummed lol. Ordered my top from m&t or mtfg or something like that. One of the recommended ones either way. Honestly it looked better BEFORE i did the rear flaps!!!! Lmao. Atleast then the back window was nice and tight now theres a few bubbles wrapping over the corners as you see. 























































If these arent enough or the right types of shots let me know! I only have the stiffening rod on the dr. Side. Lost the other one and have to pickup a piece of steel rod tomorrow.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

A few more that may lend some clues to someone like you with an eye for these evil tops.....gosh why cant this thing be as simple as my wrangler?! Dang europeeans. 
Something is surely wrong with all these hills and valleys.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Youre the best brian.
> 
> Pretty bummed lol. Ordered my top from m&t or mtfg or something like that. One of the recommended ones either way. Honestly it looked better BEFORE i did the rear flaps!!!! Lmao. Atleast then the back window was nice and tight now theres a few bubbles wrapping over the corners as you see.
> 
> ...


I need a shot of the rear to the front so I can see how the seam is running so you need a little elevation .


I need to see the top half open at the corners (both corners). 

You can see there where my top side flap ends away from the top of the frame.


This is what ti should look like with the corners set but the top frame not fastened.


There can be a little pucker going up the side.


But yours has too much.

I will take a look at it in the morning....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Heres the position it was in when i set the corners @ 90 degrees.

















At its resting point. Sitting way off the front....


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> Pretty bummed lol.


At least you didn't pay an ungodly sum of money for a professional installer to screw up. Rear window on my car was quite crooked, the window's straps were hanging loose, the side seals were put back on incorrectly. The owner of the shop (who didn't do the work; he's the son of the longtime original owner who had retired) had enough nerve to ask, "What do you think?!" Me: :what: . All that was fixed only for me to arrive and see the trunk lid all scratched up (lucky for the shop, they buffed out), a chunk of paint taken out of the side, and rear cable now showing... complete with a blue sticker (with that I'd had it and didn't want them touching the car again). Much later I finally opened the trunk lid to find glue all over it, including the rear seat release cable. To top it off, I told them to fix the driver's seat: two vertical wires snapped and one release cable broke... the idiot fixed the release catch by wiring it permanently up (found that out after arriving home). 

So, while you're having a rough a go at it, you're much better off doing it yourself. :beer:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

What did you do between here



http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/d...e Aigner/20150806_233751_zps79jimygl.jpg.html

and here?

http://s1362.photobucket.com/user/d...e Aigner/20150807_234928_zpsgmfzxkmk.jpg.html


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Brian,
Have you ever considered doing like an hour or two long video on a headliner/top pad/top replacement, where you in the spoken word explain and show how all this stuff fits together? And then selling them?

I know I would gladly pay 30 to 40 bucks for a really good instructional video, as would probably many other people. 

There's no part of this car I am nervous of going into and working on or modifying, except for that top. The online tutorial's are real informative, but honestly make me more nervous than inspired haha. The Web pages have me considering asking you for a price and hauling the car 500 miles to Alabama to ask you to do it. Haha

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> At least you didn't pay an ungodly sum of money for a professional installer to screw up. Rear window on my car was quite crooked, the window's straps were hanging loose, the side seals were put back on incorrectly. The owner of the shop (who didn't do the work; he's the son of the longtime original owner who had retired) had enough nerve to ask, "What do you think?!" Me: :what: . All that was fixed only for me to arrive and see the trunk lid all scratched up (lucky for the shop, they buffed out), a chunk of paint taken out of the side, and rear cable now showing... complete with a blue sticker (with that I'd had it and didn't want them touching the car again). Much later I finally opened the trunk lid to find glue all over it, including the rear seat release cable. To top it off, I told them to fix the driver's seat: two vertical wires snapped and one release cable broke... the idiot fixed the release catch by wiring it permanently up (found that out after arriving home).
> 
> So, while you're having a rough a go at it, you're much better off doing it yourself. :beer:


Wow what a horror story that is. If that guy is still walking on this earth youre a better person than me! Lol


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> What did you do between here
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting catch. Between those two photos......i did nothing really except maybe opened and closed the top for the other photos


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Interesting catch. Between those two photos......i did nothing really except maybe opened and closed the top for the other photos


I see that the top isn't running square, as in the seams it seems to me to be running a little sideways. 

I have had tops that looked good but weren't made the same between makers.

Is your rear bow (the one the window cables go through is it all the way to the back of the car) The weight of the glass and the rear hinges on the frame 
keep that bow in position. So latch the front get in the rear and push the rear bow towards the back, I think it would move a bit taking up that slack.
I see some thing there that don't look right, as that bow is totally pivotable and if it isn't fully to the rear you can see that kind of thing happen.

See the bow in the picture? it is higher on far side than the front. As my late Father would say it is Caddywhompus.




You need to lock your bucket account.

Stiffener rods (The inside metal on a Pants Wooden Hanger is perfect, it is Aluminum). Even a metal coat hanger works.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> I see that the top isn't running square, as in the seams it seems to me to be running a little sideways.
> 
> I have had tops that looked good but weren't made the same between makers.
> 
> ...


Okau so the rear bow is what the rear window frame straps go through and in which i stapled a whole bunch of stuff to....i can certainly with the top latched get into the back seat and push back on that. I can see why this would cause the bunching. As long as i dont have to do this everytime the top goes up and down! Lol. 

Is there anyway i can make the top more straight and straighten out rhe seams? How about the weird humpity humps on the passenger side?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okau so the rear bow is what the rear window frame straps go through and in which i stapled a whole bunch of stuff to....i can certainly with the top latched get into the back seat and push back on that. I can see why this would cause the bunching. As long as i dont have to do this everytime the top goes up and down! Lol.
> 
> Is there anyway i can make the top more straight and straighten out rhe seams? How about the weird humpity humps on the passenger side?


Take photos as humpity humpity to you is WTF to me?

Other than take it off on the front, and reseat the thing, is about the only option. If you used glue, then you need to use a hair dryer to warm it up to make it soften to remove.

Once the Weight of the Rear Window in the frame and the top Stapled to the frame underneath, the rear bow will move the bar into place. The Bar (rear) 
is held in check to the rest of the car by the straps at the top. The weight of the window and frame, and the fact that the frame of the rear window is held into position by the two hinges at the back it will always be in the correct position.....

I wouldn't cut the rear window until you get the sides correct, or as correct as you can, I wouldn't cut the rear window until you have the front seated as you need, and that your eccentrics are adjusted. Because all adjustments are then "fast" and you can't undo.

Now if your sides are still needing to be pulled as you have the rear bow as far back or parallel as you can make it, then you will remove the rear seal trays, I never put the Seals in the Trays until I get the top finished after the rear window. 

If you need to reseat the rear corners then carefully drill out the rivet.
Use a hair dryer to soften the glue so you can peel the "flaps" back off to re-glue and re-seat them. 
BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL.

I would pull a little more material out of the rear cable on the side so it can bunch up around the cable to be hidden better, "pull" it to the front a wee bit more, as that will help the "oucker factor" you are having. 

You have to pull, and bunch the material or stuff it as you are tightening the rear cable so it will draw the material around to hide the cable.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

When you get to the point of doing the rear window, I will explain it to you in step by step so you don't "eff" it up.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> When you get to the point of doing the rear window, I will explain it to you in step by step so you don't "eff" it up.


Well, im conxerned im going to get the rear window in and it may not be right because the sides are bunched. Is this possible? Perhaps the mayerial will not be where t needs to be when its all said and done becayse of that


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Well, im conxerned im going to get the rear window in and it may not be right because the sides are bunched. Is this possible? Perhaps the mayerial will not be where t needs to be when its all said and done becayse of that


Lets not get ahead of ourselves..... Lets get the Sides corrected. Push the bar back so it is equal on the passenger and driver side, then take more photos and post those.

So I can try to assist you from afar. I will check the thread as I get a free minute from Deconstruction of the Top I am working on, and painting bits and Pieces.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Lets not get ahead of ourselves..... Lets get the Sides corrected. Push the bar back so it is equal on the passenger and driver side, then take more photos and post those.
> 
> So I can try to assist you from afar. I will check the thread as I get a free minute from Deconstruction of the Top I am working on, and painting bits and Pieces.


Okay awesome thanks!!! Hope your enjoying that beetle!! 

I attempted to push the bar back. Back being to the rear of the car and was having a world of trouble because the headliner is night and taught. Could barely even get a grip on it. Things are REALLY tight everywhere but the sides. 

I also realized suddenly my rear cable became visable on the driver side in the back when it wasnt before. Perhaps it stretched a little, but im going to tighten that up some more perhaps thats part of my problem . Pics soon after i mess with it some more.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay awesome thanks!!! Hope your enjoying that beetle!!
> 
> I attempted to push the bar back. Back being to the rear of the car and was having a world of trouble because the headliner is night and taught. Could barely even get a grip on it. Things are REALLY tight everywhere but the sides.
> 
> I also realized suddenly my rear cable became visable on the driver side in the back when it wasnt before. Perhaps it stretched a little, but im going to tighten that up some more perhaps thats part of my problem . Pics soon after i mess with it some more.


OH?... That means that the rear cable wasn't sufficiently set in position.

There isn't enough material in the cable tray so the cable sits well up in to the tray, and the cable wasn't tight enough which allows it to move.
If you feel the inside of the cable tray, you need about 1/2 inch of Material in the tray on both sides of the cable so that it pulls the read bead in, as well as locking itself in the tray. If you feel the inside of the Cable tray there is a Ridge in the front.. That ridge is what stops what you are describing from happening. The cable needs to fit well back in to the tray, so the excess material that you need to seat it will be coming from the top. 

Since you will be pulling the top material from above, it will tighten the sides as well. So you need to carefully remove the rivet, and PEAL back the side wings or flaps off the glue.

Getting the tension on the cable is a by feel thing I wish there was a better way to do it, but there isn't. As you reseat the rear cable, and go around the corners, (yes you have to remove the boot tabs) and reposition the top as you are tightening the cable equally that is 10 moves on the left, 10 on the right,,, you will push the cable on the sides into the material to hold it as it is being tightened. I use the hell out of some plastic spring clamps to hold the sides in so the bead is sitting correctly.....

*
As a test once you get the cable out... TOP HALF OPENED REMEMBER, and SAFETied. Take the top material and force it in to the tray to see just how much material you need to set the cable into the top of the tray.... You can measure it as well then for depth, then double that figure and add 1/4 inch.

Then take your top and measure how much you had from the bead to where the cable was and where it folded over to go out....*


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> OH?... That means that the rear cable wasn't sufficiently set in position.
> 
> There isn't enough material in the cable tray so the cable sits well up in to the tray, and the cable wasn't tight enough which allows it to move.
> If you feel the inside of the cable tray, you need about 1/2 inch of Material in the tray on both sides of the cable so that it pulls the read bead in, as well as locking itself in the tray. If you feel the inside of the Cable tray there is a Ridge in the front.. That ridge is what stops what you are describing from happening. The cable needs to fit well back in to the tray, so the excess material that you need to seat it will be coming from the top.
> ...


10-4 on this. So i need to basically completely redo the rear then your saying? As of now. I can see the notch on the bottom of the rear bead of the top is literally dead center with the little center mark i made on the trunk lid. The top is surely centered in the rear atleast. What would simply tightening it do? I looked on the inside of the tray as you said. Theres NO material sticking out on either side. Both sides look just like this. Simply tightening the cables wont draw the sides in i assume is what your saying. 










Photo with the top half up.

I know what your saying about the little small spring clamps i only had two on. Hand when i seated it and more would have helped.


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## Tisser (Dec 25, 2014)

You're in good hands if Briano is on your side, especially when it comes to tops! Now the experience on how to get them on and off so easily probably came from college right Brian?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Tisser said:


> You're in good hands if Briano is on your side, especially when it comes to tops! Now the experience on how to get them on and off so easily probably came from college right Brian?


Went to Knocks University (Uncles Sams Confused Group, or USCG). But my earlier cars were MG's and AH-Bugeyed-Sprites. those came all the way off.
 
Now you know why I don't like SNOEFFINW. 

No, I just have a few years experience with tops, and how to fix my Eff-ups..... or how to unglue glue. ONE WORD, CAUTION.



Derekxj said:


> So i need to basically completely redo the rear then your saying? As of now. I can see the notch on the bottom of the rear bead of the top is literally dead center with the little center mark i made on the trunk lid. The top is surely centered in the rear atleast. What would simply tightening it do? I looked on the inside of the tray as you said. Theres NO material sticking out on either side. Both sides look just like this. Simply tightening the cables wont draw the sides in i assume is what your saying.
> 
> Top drawing is what you had. The bottom drawing is what you need. Basically more Material from the front of the car needed to be in the tray.


You still aren't getting what I am saying.

Yes you are going to have to re-do the rear.
You didn't understand, I am not talking about the side of the rear cable I am talking about the WHOLE thing.

When you are PULLING out (gingerly) the rear cable and unseating the vinyl from the cable tray. 

You have to have from the bead on the bottom, enough material to the rear of the cable tray the Cable firmly seated at the rear of the tray, and enough material coming over the cable and out to the front of the car. You have to have enough tension on the cable to hold it there. This isn't hard to achieve and can be done with your fingers But you had too little material at coming from the front down in to the cable tray so the Cable could seat at the rear.
Then insufficient tension on the cable to keep it there when you closed it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Went to Knocks University (Uncles Sams Confused Group, or USCG). But my earlier cars were MG's and AH-Bugeyed-Sprites. those came all the way off.
> 
> Now you know why I don't like SNOEFFINW.
> 
> ...




























How could this be? I kind of just laughed to myself and shrugged my shoulders..


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

OK. So . The belt whine is the timing belt. I adjusted it a smidge looser and it suppresed it alot. Still need to loosen a little bit and shell be good. And yes i know the turning trick. I guess i was real tired when i put it on. 

The tap.... SOUNDS like a lifter tap which really upsets me. The entire head was rebuilt soup to nuts. Ran her for 15 minutes straight. Came up to temp. Thernostat opened as it should. Fan came on as it should. Afterrun switch i installed and repaired wiring to works correctly. All in all not a terrible days work. Going to call it quits soon......quite tired.


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## Tisser (Dec 25, 2014)

Derekxj said:


> OK. So . The belt whine is the timing belt. I adjusted it a smidge looser and it suppresed it alot. Still need to loosen a little bit and shell be good. And yes i know the turning trick. I guess i was real tired when i put it on.
> 
> The tap.... SOUNDS like a lifter tap which really upsets me. The entire head was rebuilt soup to nuts. Ran her for 15 minutes straight. Came up to temp. Thernostat opened as it should. Fan came on as it should. Afterrun switch i installed and repaired wiring to works correctly. All in all not a terrible days work. Going to call it quits soon......quite tired.


I was told before "The vw engines sound like a singer sewing machine when they're running right" as in there's gonna be lifter taps whether I like it or not haha. Sounds like yours is running better than mine at this point. 

AFTER I get all the stuff pulled off, cleaned, painted, regasketed, and reassembled, replaced in the car (after getting that engine and tranny pulled), wiring repaired, and everything hooked up, I still have to diagnose a cold-running issue, oh and figure out what the original problem was with the car from BEFORE the fire :laugh: :facepalm: A little bit at a time! I'm gonna bet you'll be beating me to the punch on who gets to drive first, though. At the rate I'm going by next year this time I might get to drive it. If I'm lucky :laugh:

Btw, your top looks great! :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Tisser said:


> I was told before "The vw engines sound like a singer sewing machine when they're running right" as in there's gonna be lifter taps whether I like it or not haha. Sounds like yours is running better than mine at this point.
> 
> AFTER I get all the stuff pulled off, cleaned, painted, regasketed, and reassembled, replaced in the car (after getting that engine and tranny pulled), wiring repaired, and everything hooked up, I still have to diagnose a cold-running issue, oh and figure out what the original problem was with the car from BEFORE the fire :laugh: :facepalm: A little bit at a time! I'm gonna bet you'll be beating me to the punch on who gets to drive first, though. At the rate I'm going by next year this time I might get to drive it. If I'm lucky :laugh:
> 
> Btw, your top looks great! :thumbup:


Ill be test driving it as soon as i put the axle in and bleed the brakes today.... and a singer sewing machine?! Lol. I dont think it should. My diesel rabbit sure....but not a fuel injected 8v with an essentially new. Head on it!!! And the top looks better yeah, but i still need to redo the rear bead. Not sure whats going on with the sides. One minute they look like crap and the next they look great lol.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Ill be test driving it as soon as i put the axle in and bleed the brakes today.... and a singer sewing machine?! Lol. I dont think it should. My diesel rabbit sure....but not a fuel injected 8v with an essentially new. Head on it!!! And the top looks better yeah, but i still need to redo the rear bead. Not sure whats going on with the sides. One minute they look like crap and the next they look great lol.


Only put the rear window in it when they are looking great...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Only put the rear window in it when they are looking great...


Why do you think this happened? With the flaps undone. Like i said i closed the top. And latched it...abd they looked much better. So with what stickiness was there, i stuck them in while top closed and latched.....and they are damn near perfect right now as you see in the last pictures i posted.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Why do you think this happened? With the flaps undone. Like i said i closed the top. And latched it...abd they looked much better. So with what stickiness was there, i stuck them in while top closed and latched.....and they are damn near perfect right now as you see in the last pictures i posted.


Every top is a custom fit. I think I would move them down a tad more as your corner doesn't look like it is sitting low enough,, 1/4 inch or more.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Every top is a custom fit. I think I would move them down a tad more as your corner doesn't look like it is sitting low enough,, 1/4 inch or more.


agreed. I'm going to do this, and stickem and rivet em.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Good Afternoon Gents! 

So had a real productive weekend. 

I got some more of the interior bits and pieces bolted back in and together. 

The Raceland strut brace i had picked up was hitting the top of the throttle cable causing it to stick. 
I fixed this by raising the strut brace up with about 3 washers on each stud. Thats done. 

Got the new master and brakes all bled. They feel pretty decent. Pedal is a little low so i need to look into
adjusting the rear brakes a tad perhaps........if this is possible. 

I loosened up the timing belt a tad. ALOT of the whining went away, still need to loosen it a little bit more to
completely mitigate this. 

Got the new axle shaft in. the old one came out in 2 pieces. COMPLETELY wiped. The car *no longer rolls in park at all*. 

I now have ONE thing left, thats stopping me from test driving this car right now. 

*The power steering pump:  From what I can tell, i have installed IT, and its brackets all correctly. The pump pivots as it seemingly should. The pulley, from my research APPEARS to be correct. I really need help here. I've now purchased THREE of the " correct " belt for my car, and its WAY too big as you can see in the photos. Could something be mounted incorrectly? Adjuster be upside down? I really dont even know......I received the pulley and the pump used from a fellow forum member here. Not sure what year it came off of. Once i get the power steering nonsense figured out, I can test drive the car!!!!! *




YES. this is the CORRECT SIZE BELT for my year make and model. I ordered it 3 seperate times thinking i was getting the wrong one. What the fudge???????????? 



Some other shots of the PS assembly from a month or so ago..........





I went to the parts store trying to find a belt small enough to just " make it work ", and couldnt even find a belt that small. this is insane!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Go to Napa. They will have what you need, or a shorter replacement. It isn't that much longer than the a/c to alternator belt.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Go to Napa. They will have what you need, or a shorter replacement. It isn't that much longer than the a/c to alternator belt.


It must be alot shorter than that. There has to be something wrong here with the setup overall and its really boggling my brain right now. I hate when things " arent right " especially mechanically. I've tried my best not to " rig " things on this car and i'd hate to start now. as you can tell from the picture where im pulling on the belt, its probably about 1/3 too long, which is crazy! :banghead:


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

You are missing the "other" pulley on the water pump...

Here's what it is supposed to look like, pics courtesy of my parts car..










Notice the double pulley on the water pump.. 

On the non PS cars, you have one belt from the crank to the ac compressor and water pump.. then another goes from the compressor to the alternator. On the power steering cars there's a double pulley on the crank. One belt runs the ac and water pump. There's a second belt that runs from the crank pulley to a second water pump pulley to the PS pump

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> You are missing the "other" pulley on the water pump...
> 
> Here's what it is supposed to look like, pics courtesy of my parts car..
> 
> ...


Holy crap thank you so much for this. This is a 91 cabriolet you took the photo of????


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## Tisser (Dec 25, 2014)

Derekxj said:


> Holy crap thank you so much for this. This is a 91 cabriolet you took the photo of????


I think they're all the same if it's a 1.8

my 85


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

THey surely arent all exactly the same.......... 

SEE now the reason i didnt even think about a second pulley on the WP,
is because if you look closely under the diagram for the 91 WITH ac and WITH PS, sanden compressor, you'll see a LIGHT pink dashed line that goes directly from the PS, to to the crank. 

Confusing, but now i just need to figure out where to find one of those second water pump pulleys!!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> THey surely arent all exactly the same..........
> 
> SEE now the reason i didnt even think about a second pulley on the WP,
> is because if you look closely under the diagram for the 91 WITH ac and WITH PS, sanden compressor, you'll see a LIGHT pink dashed line that goes directly from the PS, to to the crank.
> ...


90's don't have the second pulley on the water pump. 
At least the 3 that I have owned or own didn't neither did my 89.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> 90's don't have the second pulley on the water pump.
> At least the 3 that I have owned or own didn't neither did my 89.


AND the freaky mystery continues. What the heck did someone do to this car??? install the older style crank pulleys that are maybe smaller???


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Napa lists 2 styles of belts. 

one for ps wp crank
one for ps crank.



They also list a 10X630 belt for the alternator... which is smaller...
Either one of those should work. But at least you have the ball park numbers.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Napa lists 2 styles of belts.
> 
> one for ps wp crank
> one for ps crank.
> ...


I have tried all three of these styles. I really don't want to purchase a FOURTH PS pump belt. 
I tried the alternator belt on the power steering setup as is. It was also way too big. 

The belt you see in the picture of me pulling the slack out of it......IS a 730 MM belt that i ordered from GAP


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Vag cat shows 

Two aux pulleys for the water pump.
027121031A power steering
or
027121028 power steering and air



They are also showing the belt size as 9.5X730MM / air condit.: EW,EX,JH,2H, DX 

Hope that helps.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Vag cat shows
> 
> Two aux pulleys for the water pump.
> 027121031A power steering
> ...


Yes, much! So it looks like I HAVE the one pulley installed which Vag Cat shows for the power steering and air. 

The upper number you listed however looks like what i dont have. Im assuming thats the one i need. 

Perhaps BoostedOne will sell me the water pump pulley i need off his parts car. :laugh:


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

I might be able to do that Derek, or see if i have another one kicking about. I know I need to keep one PS setup because my girl wants to put PS on her caddy.. PS on a 1.6 NA Deisel.. Look out, LOL..... 

However, regarding the year of the car, I'm 90% sure that its a 1990.. I know its newer than a 89, but don't think its a 91.. Its a power window, airbag, 2H Digifart engine, manual top, small door speaker pods.

Not saying they don't exist, I just never seen a two pulley PS belt. Even on the Mk3 ABA it runs to the WP.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> I might be able to do that Derek, or see if i have another one kicking about. I know I need to keep one PS setup because my girl wants to put PS on her caddy.. PS on a 1.6 NA Deisel.. Look out, LOL.....
> 
> However, regarding the year of the car, I'm 90% sure that its a 1990.. I know its newer than a 89, but don't think its a 91.. Its a power window, airbag, 2H Digifart engine, manual top, small door speaker pods.
> 
> Not saying they don't exist, I just never seen a two pulley PS belt. Even on the Mk3 ABA it runs to the WP.


OH boy lolol. The full manual steering is one thing that i LOVE about my 1.6 Rabbit. Its not the most powerful of little engines, I would never want to run another belt on it unless its a full AC Setup that i'm looking for. Hopefully I can wait on that though until i get the 1.6TD in there, or an AAZ if i ever find one under 1000 bucks! :thumbup::thumbup:

Anyhow, Im going to just have to go ahead and assume that this really must be the problem. I Dont really like the idea of two belts running from the crank to the water pump. I think thats a junky setup from the factory. More stress on the water pump, but hey it is what it is. And i guess its redundancy as well. One belt fails, I wont lose the pump like i did on my diesel when the belt let go lol. 

Let me know if you could sell me that pulley. I've been trying to find one new or even used on ebay, but so far no dice.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> OH boy lolol. The full manual steering is one thing that i LOVE about my 1.6 Rabbit. Its not the most powerful of little engines, I would never want to run another belt on it unless its a full AC Setup that i'm looking for. Hopefully I can wait on that though until i get the 1.6TD in there, or an AAZ if i ever find one under 1000 bucks! :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> Anyhow, Im going to just have to go ahead and assume that this really must be the problem. I Dont really like the idea of two belts running from the crank to the water pump. I think thats a junky setup from the factory. More stress on the water pump, but hey it is what it is. And i guess its redundancy as well. One belt fails, I wont lose the pump like i did on my diesel when the belt let go lol.
> 
> Let me know if you could sell me that pulley. I've been trying to find one new or even used on ebay, but so far no dice.


I just found the part number of the pulley. Its NLA from VW, but ECS and some others have some kicking about.. Unfortunately they are just over 50 bucks plus shipping..

027121031A

I will write the part number down and take a look for a pulley this evening after work.

On edit, just realized Brian posted up part numbers.. He shows this as being a non-ac pulley. Maybe I am in the wrong "section", the A/C stuff doesnt show anything for PS..
The water pump only shows the two pulleys, the main and the PS pulley..

http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/show...1729&ukey_driveLine=7989&ukey_trimLevel=18857


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> I just found the part number of the pulley. Its NLA from VW, but ECS and some others have some kicking about.. Unfortunately they are just over 50 bucks plus shipping..
> 
> 027121031A
> 
> ...


Yes i just realized the same exact thing............which is WHY im absolutely losing my mind right now. So confused on what the hecks going on lol.

When i got the car. the AC compressor wasn't hooked up, and the PS pump was hanging, with no pulley on it. I wish everything was there it would have gone back together the same way and I wouldnt be having these issues! Therefor, there werent belts going to the PS pump OR the AC. just crank, water pump, and alternator


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Ok... good news. The pulley part number I mentioned above IS for PS and AC as this car has both and has the part number I posted. Not sure why VagCat said it was for non AC.










And it is from a 1990..









There is nothing else modified on the car in the slightest, so I doubt the whole pulley setup has been changed. 

And I did find another pulley on another motor here. Will send you a PM to talk business if I can get it off.. Damned 6mm allen sockets

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

BoostedOne said:


> Damned 6mm allen sockets


That is what they make Left-Handed Drill bits, and reversible drills for, as well as small vice-grips and a hammer.
But Proper tools, and proper torque with never-seize always work for me.

Sent from my old Macbook and two finger tap-tap typing.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

briano1234 said:


> That is what they make Left-Handed Drill bits, and reversible drills for, as well as small vice-grips and a hammer.
> But Proper tools, and proper torque with never-seize always work for me.
> 
> Sent from my old Macbook and two finger tap-tap typing.


Lol.. yeah. Same here for the never seize and proper torque. But unfortunately we cannot control something someone else did. 

I saw 2 out of 3 sockets were kind of wallered out... knew not to expect much. Gave it a go with an Allen and sure enough no go... rather than drilling out just switched right over to the cutoff wheel..










And got it off.. the scuffing is just that, some scuffing. 










Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Lol.. yeah. Same here for the never seize and proper torque. But unfortunately we cannot control something someone else did.
> 
> I saw 2 out of 3 sockets were kind of wallered out... knew not to expect much. Gave it a go with an Allen and sure enough no go... rather than drilling out just switched right over to the cutoff wheel..
> 
> ...


Awesome assistance here. THanks!!! 

As to Brian's memo about none of his 91's having a setup like this...............Brian im really not sure WHAT is going on, all i know is, im assuming i just simply need this pulley and i'll take it from there. Perhaps half of 91 had the 2nd WP pulley, and the 2nd half of the year didnt? Perhaps mine is a REALLY REALLY late 91, or a super late 90' ? 

All i'm saying is i know from my other vehicles i've had that manufacturers do really goofy things sometimes. 

I really hope after all this I dont FINALLY after gosh knows how many years get fluid pumping through the PS system and find leaks everywhere and that the rack is bad. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> I really hope after all this I dont FINALLY after gosh knows how many years get fluid pumping through the PS system and find leaks everywhere and that the rack is bad. :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:


Trust me those are more of a painintheass to remove (hint remove the inner tie-rods with the outer ends still attached off as an assembly), more swing room.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Trust me those are more of a painintheass to remove (hint remove the inner tie-rods with the outer ends still attached off as an assembly), more swing room.


Oh i know. If i absolutely have to do that job, I surely will NOT be looking forward to it. Especially doing the work without a lift. It will suck....and it will suck bad. 
Thanks for the tip. I can assume with the inner tie rods out it would be easier.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Okay gents. 

No headlights. At all. 

Seemingy no power to either side of the fuses with switch on. Headlight lamps are good. Just installed brand new headlight switch. yes the correct one. 

They worked prior to dismantling the steering wheel / everything. I replaced the blinker / highbeam swit h with the old school one. 
Ignition switxh is brand new also. 

Pointers on what to look for?


EDIT.
Just read through some threads. Now im super stumped. 
More clues?

Load reduction relay checks. 
Wiper, blower motor all stop while cranking.

Have 11.8v to the white with black striped wire at the back of dimmer headlight switch when ignition is on. So no broken wires between there and load reduction. 

Have NO power to headlight fuses. Neither high or low beam. Neither illuninate. 

Ignition switch is brand new. God please dont make me fight that damn kneebar for a 4th time PLEASE! lol. 

Where to go from here? Cabt test drive the car at night when i get home because of this


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay gents.
> 
> No headlights. At all.
> 
> ...



Why did you replace the head light switch?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

briano1234 said:


> Why did you replace the head light switch?


The fuses get power from the Load reduction relay, via the head light switch. See X circuit explained
If they partially worked, before put the old switch in, you could of had a pin push back from the connector.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6761577-The-quot-X-quot-Circuit-from-the-Ignition-Switch


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Just got done ripping the whole column apart. Found sucked ALL the way down by the zip tie on the column a connector that i HAD connected. It was the smaller one that attaches to the wiper stalk. The smaller of the two. Guess i never pushed it on far enough and then messing around under the dash yanked it off. Thanks brian for all those tests i found in other threads that all checked and pointed me to the column and the stalks / connections!

Just pulled her in and out of garage a bunch of times. Shes running strong dispite some noises and whatnot. Transmission clunks nicely shifting between park reverse and drive. Ill be checking the fluid tomorrrow night after the test drive i guess!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

The car now officially has a name. *THERAPY* , for A. shes about to start a masters of psychology, and B. well, its been MY personal therapy for quite a few months now. Its kept my mind and hands busy and out of trouble!!! 

Headlights now functional, and MK1 grill restored. 


Seats mounted. Im having some trouble with the driver side. YES the seats are in really bad shape. It upsets me, but i replaced the seat guides,
and I atleast need the seats to function correctly. Mainly.......The driver side is way too low. I see a lever that i believe is sapposed to raise and lower it. I looked underneath. see it moves a spring and a lever but as hard as I can pull......the seat will not raise elevation. This isnt going to fly for my 5'2 girlfriend. Im 6'1. Its fine for me....... Any tips on how to fix this? Research turned up little to nothing.




Coming back together........


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Take the seat out.
Reposition the handle to be even with the floor.
The butt adjuster will lower the seat if you are sitting in it.
It will Spring the seat back in to position if you are out of the seat or scooted to the very front end.
The lever being out of position means to me that the lever isn't hitting the bar to pick the release or the spring that holds it there is missing broke, or off.









Yes those 2 little screws on the front bracket are all that is holding the bar in place, the spring does the rest.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Yes if the spring is missing, you can get a new one at the hardware store,,, Get a short one that has a good pull.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

yes the spring is still there! thankfully. Maybe i'll replace it anyhow. 

So the spring is there, the spring is attached to a bar, and the little lever under there. The handle has decent action.....

How do i freeze the handle in the correct position once i re-position it as you mentioned? I even tried manually pulling the little lever on the top end of the spring, and then pulling UP on the seat and she didnt move. Perhaps a little persuasion from a BFH is in order......


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

*Video*

I hope you are planning to post a video of you presenting this surprise "graduation present" to your girlfriend.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

77kafer said:


> I hope you are planning to post a video of you presenting this surprise "graduation present" to your girlfriend.


I AM planning on it yes. Might setup a go-pro inside the car mounted under the roll bar to document the whole thing lol.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> yes the spring is still there! thankfully. Maybe i'll replace it anyhow.
> 
> So the spring is there, the spring is attached to a bar, and the little lever under there. The handle has decent action.....
> 
> How do i freeze the handle in the correct position once i re-position it as you mentioned? I even tried manually pulling the little lever on the top end of the spring, and then pulling UP on the seat and she didnt move. Perhaps a little persuasion from a BFH is in order......


Sounds like Oil is in your future.
If the spring is there I imagine it is mispositioned. Some folks have been known to grab that handle to move the seat forward... pulling it out of position.
So you may need to reseat it so that the lever hits the release bar. If the release bar is rusty corroded full of goo, then you probably need to oil it and move it by hand a few times.... 

Some folks don't understand that Preventative maintenance means more than check the oil level. Be Warned the seat will "POP" into place once the mechanism is free.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Sounds like Oil is in your future.
> If the spring is there I imagine it is mispositioned. Some folks have been known to grab that handle to move the seat forward... pulling it out of position.
> So you may need to reseat it so that the lever hits the release bar. If the release bar is rusty corroded full of goo, then you probably need to oil it and move it by hand a few times....
> 
> Some folks don't understand that Preventative maintenance means more than check the oil level. Be Warned the seat will "POP" into place once the mechanism is free.


Okay awesome!! Im going to remove the seat tonight and try to get this fixed............

Now that theres a skid of Bricks infront of the garage.....The cabby wont be test driven for a few days :banghead:

Noticed pulling it in and out of garage.......I touch the gas a TINY bit, nothing. Little bit more, and it wants to lurch forward. Perhaps im going to lube up the throttle linkage tonight also. Tranny Clunks going in and out of Drive, park, and reverse. Will be checking tranny fluid. Need to permanetly fix and tie up the O2 sensor wiring. 
Need to find the currect O-Ring size for the throttle bypass screw. Need to build a heat shield between header and PS rack.........In no particular order


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> The car now officially has a name. *THERAPY* , for A. shes about to start a masters of psychology, and B. well, its* been MY personal therapy for quite a few months now*. Its kept my mind and hands busy and out of trouble!!!



LOL really?
With all the headaches you had I thought maybe you will need therapy by the time its done


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> LOL really?
> With all the headaches you had I thought maybe you will need therapy by the time its done


Lol well..........You know how it is. Its ALWAYS a love / hate. In actuality, doing this stuff and bringing cars back to life really is what I love to do. 

I MIGHT need it. Good things shes got the degree then huh? :thumbup:


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

JUST test drove the cabby. First time shes hit pavement in probably 3years atleast. Previous owner never drove or registered it. She drives fantastic. Handles smooth. Im quite impressed!!!!!

Temp gauge is working intermittingly. Not sure what thats about but its bothering me. Other night it worjed on its own. While driving i smacked the dash and it started to rise. Then randomly fell.

Theres a weird noise coming from the rear once in a while after coming to a stop. Almost reminds me of what an abs pump sounds luke. Its very faint. Perhaps the fuel pump i heard ONE time making noise? Its the in tank from what ive read. 

Engine also has a little bit of a hesitation it seems. Not sure why. 
Perhaps because i didnt completely fix the O2 wiring yet. Perhaps theres yet another vacuum leak? Not sure. Still need the Oring size for the bypass screw if anyone can help me there.

Exhaust is a little annoying at low RPMs without the resinator. Perhaps the muffler is rotted causing the noise. Not sure. 

All in all.. pretty happy with it so far.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> JUST test drove the cabby. First time shes hit pavement in probably 3years atleast. Previous owner never drove or registered it. She drives fantastic. Handles smooth. Im quite impressed!!!!!
> 
> Temp gauge is working intermittingly. Not sure what thats about but its bothering me. Other night it worjed on its own. While driving i smacked the dash and it started to rise. Then randomly fell.
> 
> ...


Strange about the gauge. I totally disassembled it, cleaned the little wire, and resoldered both points of contact. However, the possibility does exist that I missed something, didn't fix it correctly, or something else is wrong. I'm really sorry about that!

Smack the bottom of the muffler, if it rattles and is filled with rust you know it's rotting out.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> Strange about the gauge. I totally disassembled it, cleaned the little wire, and resoldered both points of contact. However, the possibility does exist that I missed something, didn't fix it correctly, or something else is wrong. I'm really sorry about that!
> 
> Smack the bottom of the muffler, if it rattles and is filled with rust you know it's rotting out.


Thanks man!! Who knows lol. Just ran the car and this time it was working. Ill try rhe muffler trick tho thanks!! 

Got all the lights working, except the backup lights. If ignition is on car in reverse should they have power? Or only with car running? 

Wheres the switch on the automatic tranny and is there a way of testing it?

Additionally theres now NOTHING holding the stupid plate holdee to the tailgate. Can someone advise as to which screws / plastic push ins i need before i wind up pop riveting it on? Lol


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks man!! Who knows lol. Just ran the car and this time it was working. Ill try rhe muffler trick tho thanks!!
> 
> Got all the lights working, except the backup lights. If ignition is on car in reverse should they have power? Or only with car running?
> 
> ...


The reverse switch in in the PRNDL console, when you pop the cover you will see a bunch of pads and the shifter. The shifter placed in R with the key on will short those two pins.

Test the bulbs, they get corroded sockets.
Then you can test for 12 to the lights at the rear.

The schematic is in the back of the Bentley after the 1991 cabriolet... (Automatic shift lock).

You can get the pins that hold the tray on at napa, IIRC they are 1/4 diameters, and you can use those Fuzzy fingered nylon panel holders.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The reverse switch in in the PRNDL console, when you pop the cover you will see a bunch of pads and the shifter. The shifter placed in R with the key on will short those two pins.
> 
> Test the bulbs, they get corroded sockets.
> Then you can test for 12 to the lights at the rear.
> ...


Cleaned up the sockets and geounds out back. Using the power probe i proved them good. Fuses good. 
Figueed out the inner workings of the switch using the ohm meter.. i had cleaned these contacts like a brand new penny. I did however overlook the contact that rides on all of them attached to the shift lever. Between cleani g that big bridge contact and adjusting the front to back of the big bottom switch, i got them working!!! Love solving these problems. 

10/4 on the 1/4 inch pops. what are these fuzzy things you speak of?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Cleaned up the sockets and geounds out back. Using the power probe i proved them good. Fuses good.
> Figueed out the inner workings of the switch using the ohm meter.. i had cleaned these contacts like a brand new penny. I did however overlook the contact that rides on all of them attached to the shift lever. Between cleani g that big bridge contact and adjusting the front to back of the big bottom switch, i got them working!!! Love solving these problems.
> 
> 10/4 on the 1/4 inch pops. what are these fuzzy things you speak of?


like this, not these specifically.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

They call them Christmas tree fasteners 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> They call them Christmas tree fasteners
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Yes!!!!! Ive heard this before, and thanks brian. Got all that painted the hatch buffed out and back together. 

Permanetly fixed the O2 wiring. Soldered and back in. Built an aluminum heat shield that now wraps the header to shield the rack and the axle boot from heat. 

Started it. Went to back out of garage and everytime i went to move in reverse she stalled. Then was really hard starting again. The problem i thought the fuel regulator had fixed. Only started with foot down on the gas pedal. Then once it started. Fuel pump was making a whole lot of noise again. Could this be the cause of my issues?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Yes!!!!! Ive heard this before, and thanks brian. Got all that painted the hatch buffed out and back together.
> 
> Permanetly fixed the O2 wiring. Soldered and back in. Built an aluminum heat shield that now wraps the header to shield the rack and the axle boot from heat.
> 
> Started it. Went to back out of garage and everytime i went to move in reverse she stalled. Then was really hard starting again. The problem i thought the fuel regulator had fixed. Only started with foot down on the gas pedal. Then once it started. Fuel pump was making a whole lot of noise again. Could this be the cause of my issues?


Fuel pumps don't make noise..... well good running ones don't.
Check the in-tank pump first or Single pump convert... Just as easy as re-placing the intank, and a whole lot cheaper.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Fuel pumps don't make noise..... well good running ones don't.
> Check the in-tank pump first or Single pump convert... Just as easy as re-placing the intank, and a whole lot cheaper.


Whats all involved in a single pump conversion? I read that if you hear noise chances are its the in tank pump going. I know its surely the fuel pump as its coming from the rear pass. Tire area. Also. Do theae cars need to run on 93 otane? Being from the fatherland and all? If you have a writeup for a single pump conversion thatd be great. My wallet is getting sort of light as i near the end of this project!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Whats all involved in a single pump conversion? I read that if you hear noise chances are its the in tank pump going. I know its surely the fuel pump as its coming from the rear pass. Tire area. Also. Do theae cars need to run on 93 otane? Being from the fatherland and all? If you have a writeup for a single pump conversion thatd be great. My wallet is getting sort of light as i near the end of this project!


Well I don't have a write up, but Ron does.
I have my additions to,
And how to change the intank pump.

*Ron's Single Pump Conversion*

Which refers to *How to change an in-tank pump.
*

_*My Cost reduced additions to Ron's thread.*_


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Well I don't have a write up, but Ron does.
> I have my additions to,
> And how to change the intank pump.
> 
> ...


Okay so great news is, i found that Airtex pump on amazon prime. free 2 day shipping. 32 bucks!!! 

So here is a few questions. I know i will need to change the strainer. Car has well over 200k on it, and this is the original fuel pump with the original crimp clamps. Opened up and saw them last night. With this said. I dont see the strainer pictured in the stuff that comes with that new Airtex pump. Do i buy a replacement stock one? 

Also, I replaced the OEM fuel filter when i got the car. Do i still need the WIX aftermarket one here or can mine hang on now for a while. 

Lastly, where is this " other " fuel pump located? The in-tank one was easy enough to get to.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Taddaaaaaa. 



Turns out, got that pulley on and what do you know. the belt fit like a charm. Filled the system with front end up. cycled the wheel lock to lock about 10-15 times. 
Is some Frothing action normal in the reservoir? Because that i've surely got. Brown Foamy froth. Not sure HOW " powered " the power steering should feel. with wheels off the ground, it does feel easier obviously but not really like a newer vehicle would feel steering wise. So far, no leaks.......Key words.....*so far*

Also went and picked up a set of sylvania Xtravision performace headlamps. Was about to relay the headlights, but i want to get a nice set of waterproof relay connectors
and new connectors for the headlights to do it right and do it right once.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Taddaaaaaa.
> 
> 
> 
> Brown Foamy froth. Not sure HOW " powered " the power steering should feel. with wheels off the ground, it does feel easier obviously but not really like a newer vehicle would feel steering wise. So far, no leaks.......Key words.....*so far*


When it is running, froth is probably as it has been sitting for a while.
I would use a Turkey Baster and suck out that old brown crap.
Use Dexron3 and fill it back up, cycle it, drain it, refill, then suck out about 4 ounces, and use SEAFOAM ATF to refill not Lucas. It will finish the cleaning.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> When it is running, froth is probably as it has been sitting for a while.
> I would use a Turkey Baster and suck out that old brown crap.
> Use Dexron3 and fill it back up, cycle it, drain it, refill, then suck out about 4 ounces, and use SEAFOAM ATF to refill not Lucas. It will finish the cleaning.


Is dexron 3 the same as power steering fluid? 

Also by seafoam atf do you mean the transtune stuff, or do they make an actual transmission fluid?


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

Dexron 3 is automatic transmission fluid, and you use it in your power steering reservoir.

Seafoam trans-tune.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

If thats the case then what is " Power Steering Fluid " ?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

A clear liquid.

I have been using Dexron 3 in all my cabbies, with about 4-5 ounces of SeaFoam ATF cleaner for Years, but if you look at the specs, Dexron3 is called out.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

oh crap......

Guess i better go pickup some dexron 3 and the ATF cleaner then on friday once i get paid and slowly suck out, replace, suck out, replace...........

Rolled the car back and forth last night as i couldnt get it out of the driveway due to obstructions and the power steering felt quite nice to have. 
Remember, im used to driving an 84 Rabbit everyday! 


Was having issues stalling while attempting to move in reverse. Took out the idle screw ( again ), replaced the O-Ring. again, and taped the threads with teflon. 
Put her back in. I dont notice as abrupt of a change winding it in and out to the idle as i would like to, but i assume its doing its job? 

I set the idle to about 950 or so. it seems to be running well. I would love to figure out how to check the timing on this car with the timing light. 
Yes i have a timing light , any tips? I want to make sure this is dead on. 

I've read that these engines REALLY prefer to run around 7-8 BTDC. I could time it by ear / feel but would like to be as precise as possible. 

CAR IS GETTING REGISTERED NEXT WEEK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

All that is left is to .......

-Install & silicone the front seal trays for the convertible top, 
-fix the back seat pulls, 
-re-install rear interior. 
-replace in-tank fuel pump
-get a 4 wheel alignment
-Wheel the entire car ( with variable speed buffer), install new Etienne Aigner Decals. Give her a true and thorough Detailing..........................

And thats about it folks!!!!


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## Kräüt2 (Feb 24, 2015)

Hi Derek,

good to see your bucket is being let loose soon. Good job!
I stopped working on mine for now and pretty much daily it, unless it's too hot. Did about 3k kms in the last weeks, no tools involved.

You have yet to make some good shots of the car in daylight, but from what I can see it might be too late for detailing. Wrap it or cheap-o paint maybe?

Cheers


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay so great news is, i found that Airtex pump on amazon prime. free 2 day shipping. 32 bucks!!!
> 
> So here is a few questions. I know i will need to change the strainer. Car has well over 200k on it, and this is the original fuel pump with the original crimp clamps. Opened up and saw them last night. With this said. I dont see the strainer pictured in the stuff that comes with that new Airtex pump. Do i buy a replacement stock one?
> 
> ...


The Strainer off the old one should be good, or you can buy one..... I personally have never seen a strainer go bad.... well if it is yellowed and Holey don't use it.

The main pump is on the passenger side of the car above the rear axle.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Last night, 

Took the car out for another drive. She rides real nice. Still had the problem of it stalling in reverse. Idle is up at like 950. 
i think i may attribute this to the in-tank pump being weak......not sure. She runs rough sometimes, but seems once it warms up idles nice and smooth as butter. 

There is a slight tick, i think it MIGHT be an exhaust leak. Im not positive. Have to really get it on a lift once its registered and get under it. 
Transmission has a little clunky clunk clunk going into P-D-R. 
Another issue related to the trans is that when trying to shift back into park, I have to apply pressure holding the shifter to the LEFT and really push otherwise it wont go in its like its hitting something. :facepalm:


After the test drive, i proceeded in working on the top. Yes, i know i took a few shortcuts which i hate to admit, but I will. I wound up re-gluing the side flaps with the top in the fully closed and latched position. This was the only way I was able to get them tight as i explained earlier. Not sure why, but it worked for some goofy reason. I put on the little side plastic pieces which i was less than happy with as the part that goes over the bead didnt really fit OVER the bead 110%. I re-seated the front edge where it meets the header seal, its much better now. I cleaned and degreased the header seal, got the front trays on, siliconed, and all done. 

THEN........I had the heart-sinking feeling attributed with putting a razor knife to a 500 dollar top and the most expensive single purchase of this rebuild...........


Gosh that was a terrible feeling!!!! However, as brian suggested i measured the bottom. Stapled. Measured again. and again. For some reason it still looks a C hair off, even though im positive im within about 3/16's of an inch off. ANYWAY. Applied the silicone when i finished stapling......and tonight i will installing the rear window and FINISHING THIS EVIL EVIL PUZZLE OF THE CONVERTIBLE TOP!!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

the top is DONE


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Wow you installed a sunroof using a rear window... Dam Fine work. 









Not bad for a first timer looks good.

Saw the twist in the cord, but all is forgiven.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Wow you installed a sunroof using a rear window... Dam Fine work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hahahahahahaha. Good call brian, good call!! 

Shucks, i was hoping you wouldnt notice the twist!!! Either way, its atleast in now. Im scared to put a hose to it. It may look nice, whether it will hold water or not is a whole other story!!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey everyone. 

Nothing big or exciting as of now, just continued reassembling the interior last night. cleaning etc. 

Quick question. Im having a few issues. the one is with the stalling in reverse. Someones trouble getting car restarted when its warmed up......
I have to literally put the pedal to the floor / pump it like theres a carburator. 

The second one is the loud buzzing, infamous fuel pump sound. ive ran and drove the car several times now, and only heard it on two occasions. 
I've read that when you hear that, its the IN TANK pump thats going bad, is this correct? 

COULD the fuel pumps be causing my problems? I dont want to spend 100 bucks or more if there's not a chance a fuel pump could cause such running & starting symptoms.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey folks. Happy Friday!!! 

Can anybody tell me where the heck these pieces go???? Its been a long time now since i disassembled the car and cant find a home for these two last and final pieces............I believe they are something to do with the seat frame but i dont know!! 

Thanks!


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

Just went out to the garage and looked under my seats, didn't find anything looking like that. That long piece does look familiar though.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Hey folks. Happy Friday!!!
> 
> Can anybody tell me where the heck these pieces go???? Its been a long time now since i disassembled the car and cant find a home for these two last and final pieces............I believe they are something to do with the seat frame but i dont know!!
> 
> Thanks!


Top is rear tail light wiring cover.
Bottom is the a/c evaporator drain line cover passenger side under the heater box held in by one Phillips screw.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Top is rear tail light wiring cover.
> Bottom is the a/c evaporator drain line cover passenger side under the heater box held in by one Phillips screw.


Thankyou-!!!! All pieces accounted for now. Nuts and bolts....thats anithsr story. Ive got a box filled of those leftover lol. Happens every time.


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## Jafet (Dec 7, 2012)

Not too much of a fan of Cabriolets but i love all the effort that you have put in this car. good luck with it!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Jafet said:


> Not too much of a fan of Cabriolets but i love all the effort that you have put in this car. good luck with it!


Thanks alot man appreciate that!!!!!!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Kräüt said:


> Hi Derek,
> 
> good to see your bucket is being let loose soon. Good job!
> I stopped working on mine for now and pretty much daily it, unless it's too hot. Did about 3k kms in the last weeks, no tools involved.
> ...


it is NEVER too late to detail. You underestimated me.............The car looks, less good in the pure sunlight obviously, so for now i'll stick to the night shots. By the way, thats the only time ive EVER worked on this car.....never during the day as I work 2 jobs 7 days a week. 

SO gentlemen. Heres an update. went to register it yesterday morning......waited THREE HOURS in the dumb dmv. was super excited. Planned on driving it all week this week, giving it to her next weekend. Go through all the motions and turns out the $$'s went up, as always in wonderful new york. its going to cost me 200 dollars to register the car. So now, im 2 more weeks out until the next payday. Quite upset......went back by the car. went to install the main fuel pump i received, and......I was sent the wrong one. Correct one wont arrive until friday now. So i said the heck with it. continued with the detailing. The hood was flat black. PO said there was some kind of " gang sign " on the hood so she just sprayed over it. I hit it by accident with the buffer while doing the fenders and saw a little bit of blue. So figured. F - IT . Im going for it. 4 hours later and sore hands, and high from solvents of all sorts.........I FOUND THE HOOD. its not the best, its scratched, dinged. but she shines, and makes the whole car look better. 2 coats of spraypaint. 1 coat of plastidip, and a final coat of spraypaint all removed. 

Warning.........LOTS OF PICTURES.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> it is NEVER too late to detail.


:thumbup:

And if you're a good car owner, you're never done detailing. 

I was wondering if you were going to buff that paint out before handing the keys over... nicely done. Car looks 100x better now. :beer:



Derekxj said:


> went to register it yesterday morning......waited THREE HOURS in the dumb dmv.


I waited 3 hours just to have my license photo updated since my local, idiotic MVD (yes, MVD here, not DMV) office doesn't separate the registration line from the license line. :screwy: So, I feel your pain.



Derekxj said:


> its going to cost me 200 dollars to register the car.


:what:

Cripes, man. Move to a better state. Registration in AZ for a 20-something-year-old car is $50... and that's actually higher than if the car did not have a personalized or specialty plate.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

kamzcab86 said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> I waited 3 hours just to have my license photo updated since my local, idiotic MVD (yes, MVD here, not DMV) office doesn't separate the registration line from the license line. :screwy: So, I feel your pain.



What,,,WHAT? I spent 20 minutes Getting a new drivers license, had to have 37 different forms to state that I was a real Citizen.
The over to the Tag office, and 5 minutes later 144 dollars lighter I had 4 new tags.... Just ask them the day of the week and the time when there isn't a line.
8:30am on Wednesday. I even got a Vanity plate that didn't cost, actually they shaved 20 dollars off. (Veteran U.S.C.G.) before the change of tag, it was 34 dollars to renew on the 93. 

Down here it used to be really really worse. Had 2 months every year to renew, and the line at the County Court House went around the block.. but if you waited until March they charged you an extra 2 dollars, and you had your tags in about 15 minutes... So we have made some progress.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Did the $200 include the title transfer, and the new plate(assuming you dont already have one to put on it?)? 

If you were doing the title transfer, a year of registration, and the "new tag", that would be cheap in Florida.. I bought a Mk2 in June or July, I didnt do tag work but did want to get the title in my name. Just the title transfer cost me $104.25... If you don't have an already purchased tag with nothing to put it on(like you sold a car that you had tagged, but didn't buy another yet to assign that tag to), they hit you for a $200(last time I checked) new tag fee.. On top of the registration which on a Mk1 is like $40 a year...

On the flip side I am not being bilked for thousands of dollars a year in state and local income taxes like all yall up north... So if my tags and title transfers cost a little more, I will take that 

Oh crap.. My birthday was last week.. Didnt make it to the DMV yet.. Out of town for work this week. Looks like I have 1 business day to make it to the DMV to give them several hundred dollars before my already expired tags are very obviously expired.

Good job on the top!!!! I was envisioning putting my car on trailer and driving 500 miles and begging Brian to do it for me.. Maybe I could pull it off.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

briano1234 said:


> What,,,WHAT? I spent 20 minutes Getting a new drivers license, had to have 37 different forms to state that I was a real Citizen.
> The over to the Tag office, and 5 minutes later 144 dollars lighter I had 4 new tags.... Just ask them the day of the week and the time when there isn't a line.
> 8:30am on Wednesday. I even got a Vanity plate that didn't cost, actually they shaved 20 dollars off. (Veteran U.S.C.G.) before the change of tag, it was 34 dollars to renew on the 93.


One lousy form, "here's your number", go find a seat and wait (which was the floor because it was so damn crowded). Three hours later, it took all of 5 minutes to get the updated license.  Had this stupid office divided the licensing from the registration, it wouldn't have taken even 20 minutes to get a new photo and license card since there was hardly anyone there for that (as it turned out; didn't pay much attention 'cuz I was reading a science magazine for most of the time). This was several years ago, shortly after AZ shuttered a few MVD offices and personnel so it didn't matter what day, it was going to be a wait; what it's like today, I've no clue and don't care to find out... but I will, 'cuz in another 5 years I'll have to go back for an updated photo (licenses don't expire until you're 65 in AZ, but your photo does). :thumbdown: 

Regular registration in AZ for an old car is $20 a year (getting a new title adds another one-time $20 or so fee) and renewals are done online. :thumbup:


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

Went to DMV on 4 August, 2 double sided forms, take a number maybe a total of 15 minutes waiting to get to the window. 5 minutes at the window, and a total of $162.50 and the 92 was registered and titled.
The title arrived yesterday in the mail.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks for the Kind words Kammy. I really appreciate that especially coming from you! 
Couldnt have done it without your site.

I guess that its never so simple no matter where you live with the DMV B.S. Also, the county i live in people drive like A-Holes ALL the time......which i guess one reason its so high but its still unnecessary. Why cant the state just ever make anything easy for its residents. Un-real. 

As for the car........Im fairly pissed. Kind of at a stand still until i register it. She still runs like crap when i first get it running.......even with the new in-tank pump. we'll see if that goes away once the correct main pump arrives on monday.

The oil temperature gauge for some reason, is PINNING itself to the far right. No more no less. it goes there and stays there as long as the key is on. Not sure what thats about. I believe i changed the pin-head sender already on the flange for that.

The WATER temp gauge in the cluster still isnt working. Sometimes it does. sometimes it doesnt. Quite frustrating as being with all gaskets and head so new, this is something i really want to keep a close eye on......

For now.....i've just been continuing detailing it. conditioning the top. Cleaning inside the door jams really good and waxing in there. cleaning the undersides of the doors waxing them. Deep cleaning the interior........Theres not much else to do at the moment. :thumbdown:


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*The oil temperature gauge for some reason, is PINNING itself to the far right. No more no less. it goes there and stays there as long as the key is on. Not sure what thats about. I believe i changed the pin-head sender already on the flange for that.*

Try reversing the wires on the Can sensor that is on the drivers side of your head. That is the Oil pressure sender, and IIRC if you get them on bass ackwards you will see the OP gauge deflect full and stay there.

*The WATER temp gauge in the cluster still isnt working. Sometimes it does. sometimes it doesnt. Quite frustrating as being with all gaskets and head so new, this is something i really want to keep a close eye on......

*

Use a 9V DC battery on the Black temp Sensor on the front water outlet flange. Brown wire to Negative pin keys off.
The Gauge should be rock hard at 3/4 to full deflection if it stays for about 2 minutes, then your good if it goes up then back you still have cold solder joints inside of the Gauge. The Water Gauge is a Heating element that varies the heat wrapped wire by the resistance of the sensor changing allowing more or less current to the Gauge. The more heat the greater deflection of the gauge. That is the less current, the less the gauge deflects. So you have an intermittent connection some where.... Usually it is a cold solder joint inside of the gauge, or your nuts can be corroded or insufficiently tightened.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *The oil temperature gauge for some reason, is PINNING itself to the far right. No more no less. it goes there and stays there as long as the key is on. Not sure what thats about. I believe i changed the pin-head sender already on the flange for that.*
> 
> Try reversing the wires on the Can sensor that is on the drivers side of your head. That is the Oil pressure sender, and IIRC if you get them on bass ackwards you will see the OP gauge deflect full and stay there.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info Brian, however......its my oil TEMPERATURE gauge thats on the far right in the console. My pressure gauge ( middle gauge in the console ), seems to be working fine. The can is brand new....Kamz ( and you ) confirmed i was putting the correct wire on the correct terminal but I could have screwed it up. The TEMPERATURE sender from what i've read, is the small nail-head sender thats on the TOP of the oil filter flange, that the terminal from the single wire slides onto. 

Will surely do the 9V to the black sender connector tonight.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Just curious if you used new side molding clips or not?
sorry if you posted that and I missed it. Would suck to have good molding drop off with old/bad clips.


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## xxStuartxx (Apr 13, 2015)

CajunSpike said:


> Just curious if you used new side molding clips or not?
> sorry if you posted that and I missed it. Would suck to have good molding drop off with old/bad clips.



I think he did.


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

CajunSpike said:


> Just curious if you used new side molding clips or not?


Nothing wrong with the old clips, I had all my molding off and only replaced those 3 clips that were missing.


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## Kräüt2 (Feb 24, 2015)

Derekxj said:


> it is NEVER too late to detail. You underestimated me.............


Okokokokok. I fink you showed on 30 pages that ye ain't no pushover.  Looks real good. 
I'd grab a cheap airbrush gun of Amazon and some matched paint and get rid of the scratches. I did that a few times on my 4x4 to get rid of the battle scars. If you get the right paint and with a bit of polishing it's damn near imposible to spot. From like a meter away at least. Really, for patches up to say 30x30 cms it works a treat.

Keep going!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

77kafer said:


> Nothing wrong with the old clips, I had all my molding off and only replaced those 3 clips that were missing.


Yes i did change all of he clips. I had to. There were none on the car but maybe 3 beoken ones. Some moron previous owner got rid of all the trim. Anyhow. The complete bag was cheap enough from mk1autohous and there were even extras. Well worth it.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Kräüt said:


> Okokokokok. I fink you showed on 30 pages that ye ain't no pushover.  Looks real good.
> I'd grab a cheap airbrush gun of Amazon and some matched paint and get rid of the scratches. I did that a few times on my 4x4 to get rid of the battle scars. If you get the right paint and with a bit of polishing it's damn near imposible to spot. From like a meter away at least. Really, for patches up to say 30x30 cms it works a treat.
> 
> Keep going!


Thanks alot for the compliments and for the paint tips. The dr. Door is hammered in real bad. Its going to need a door. Body work is not somethibg i have the money, or time for right now in any regard. Down the line it will absolutely be getting done!!!! 

Little bit of an update. The other night i received the replacement main pump, and changed it. Started and ran fine. Still with a rough idle until it warmed up. Once warmed up i shut it down. Tried to restart and again......the looooonnnnngggg cranking and foot down on gas to get it started. Ran like crap for a minute or two with lower than normal then ok. FPR is brand new. 

Took it for a drive. Noticed a burning smell. A weird one. So i pulled over and checked belts. Figured one was rubbing? Didnt look to be the case. Then i noticed. Let off the gas and the car pretty much stopped itself. Brakes are dragging. Bring it back in garage. Jack it up. Front wheels, in neutral. I cant turn them by hand at all. Same with rear. Master is brand new. I pumped the brake pedal a bunch of times and it got easier. I then cracked the two front bleeders loose.....and the brakes released on al 4 corners. Im guessing the front hoses are collapsed and not letting fluid return to the master locking up the brakes. Ill have new ones tonight and will be replacing them. 

I also tested connector for water temp gauge with 9 volts. Gauge didnt move, so i assume i need to now pull the cluster again. Sheesh. Maybe ill do that tonight also. Switched connectors on the oil sender. BOTH temp and pressure gauges pinned. Put them back, and as usual oil pressure worked, temp did not. I changed the temp sender on the oil flange so im at a loss on this one.

Thats all for now folks. Will update again soon.


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## flying_oliver (Apr 29, 2013)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks alot for the compliments and for the paint tips. The dr. Door is hammered in real bad. Its going to need a door. Body work is not somethibg i have the money, or time for right now in any regard. Down the line it will absolutely be getting done!!!!
> 
> Little bit of an update. The other night i received the replacement main pump, and changed it. Started and ran fine. Still with a rough idle until it warmed up. Once warmed up i shut it down. Tried to restart and again......the looooonnnnngggg cranking and foot down on gas to get it started. Ran like crap for a minute or two with lower than normal then ok. FPR is brand new.
> 
> ...


Make sure your caliper guide pin isn't seized.

Sorry again about that gauge. It worked perfectly before I sent it to you. It can't hurt to test the continuity of the wires though.
I don't think I used too much epoxy on the back, just carefully pry it apart with a small screw driver. Then follow brian's how to. Good luck, hopefully you will be able to fix it. Not sure why it didn't take the first time because it sure worked before I shipped it out.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

flying_oliver said:


> Make sure your caliper guide pin isn't seized.
> 
> Sorry again about that gauge. It worked perfectly before I sent it to you. It can't hurt to test the continuity of the wires though.
> I don't think I used too much epoxy on the back, just carefully pry it apart with a small screw driver. Then follow brian's how to. Good luck, hopefully you will be able to fix it. Not sure why it didn't take the first time because it sure worked before I shipped it out.


No worries!! I believe it worked before i got it from ya. Maybe it just didnt take or something who knows lol. So youre saying check continuity between the wires @ the connector?? If i dont have continuity there that means theres a break in the wiring? Or could that just confirm the gauge issue? Anyone know the color of wires that should be going to each of the two sensors on that flange so i can confirm i dont have them backwards?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> No worries!! I believe it worked before i got it from ya. Maybe it just didnt take or something who knows lol. So youre saying check continuity between the wires @ the connector?? If i dont have continuity there that means theres a break in the wiring? Or could that just confirm the gauge issue? Anyone know the color of wires that should be going to each of the two sensors on that flange so i can confirm i dont have them backwards?


Blue/Black to the white sensor.
Green/black to the temp sensor.

Continuity is that from the connector end of the wire to the cluster connector there is 0 Ohms.
Now to check it remove the wire from the sensor and ground it to the frame.. Then inside the car on the cluster connector (you will remove the connector from the cluster) you will measure that pin to ground, 0 ohms wire is good. I would say anything above 15-20 oms wire may be suspect.

If you have a ringer on your meter, then run a wire from the connector under the hood, and then ring from that wire to the connector pin on the cluster, no ring, open.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Good Afternoon Gentleman. 

Lifes been rough lately.......Been broke, sick as a dog, and working like a maniac. 

Was away up in PA with family for the long weekend. 

SO update on the Cabriolet, long awaited at this point. Friday was payday, took off, went to DMV in the AM and forked over the 200 dollars to make it legal and streetable. 

Went over to the car. Installed NEW front caliper hoses. Re-bled brakes. Got her out of the garage.........drove it about a mile down the road to advanced for license plate screws. All well and good. The car actually felt really good. Fairly responsive, other than the aweful alignment.....i had few complaints. 

Turned around, drove about 2.5 miles in the opposite direction heading to the alignment shop while i still had a few bucks in my pocket. Anddddddd the brakes locked up, and i mean REALLY locked up. She was struggling to do 10mph. pedal to the floor. NOW im furious. 

All at the same time, now everytime she dropped down to an idle, the oil light was flashing in the dash. The oil switch is new, oil is 20-50. Filter is one of the approved ones. Oil pressure gauge showed about 1.5 bar at best at an idle while the car was warmed up. Oil pump is new replacement from the 2.0 ( upgrade ). Car was not running hot at all, even though it was hot outside. 

I had to pull the car over, wheels had smoke coming from them from the brakes, I kid you not i could have fried an egg on the rims. 

Brake problem, all 4 wheels locking up........Master is new. anyone have this problem? What could be going on?????? Im at that point where im starting to loathe the car and lose patients mainly due to money and it just giving me such grief. 

Oil pressure light going on........i have NO clue, perhaps all my work was for nothing and the engine is just shot :banghead:


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

If there is truly 1.5 bar at idle, it's not having an oil pressure problem. Alot of people use the late mk3 tdi switch that has a set point of .9 bar.. there is actually at least 3 switches, the later they were introduced the lower the set point... because vw got increasingly tired of customer complaints from the dummy light when there is really no problem. They just set the switch point to high in the beginning. 

On the brake issue, I would have to think about that one. Kind of strange it rolled just fine a while then apparently has a build up of pressure in all wheels.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Wow. 

I would say the Master is shot... I don't think that it is the hose replacement.
The master shoots fluid when you engage the pedal, then when let off the master pulls the fluid back.

Now if your proportional valves are on the wrong spot, then you can lock up the rears.

One other thing I have see is parking brake cables snapping and keeping the rears locked.

So if all 4 are doing the same thing, I would suspect the master. If the rears are the issue then I would look at the rears and the brake cables.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

I guess one way to isolate the calipers/wheel cylinders from the master would be to open the lines at the wheel cylinders/calipers and see if the pressure bleeds out and the wheels free up? If with the hoses open the wheels still don't turn somehow both calipers locked up along with some other bizarre failure in the rear?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> If there is truly 1.5 bar at idle, it's not having an oil pressure problem. Alot of people use the late mk3 tdi switch that has a set point of .9 bar.. there is actually at least 3 switches, the later they were introduced the lower the set point... because vw got increasingly tired of customer complaints from the dummy light when there is really no problem. They just set the switch point to high in the beginning.
> 
> On the brake issue, I would have to think about that one. Kind of strange it rolled just fine a while then apparently has a build up of pressure in all wheels.
> 
> ...


Do you have a part number for that switch? I hate blinking lights........when i first start the car, I see between 3 and 4 on the gauge. Only on its first official outting on main roads did the oil pressure light start blinking. Im honestly not sure what these cars are supposed to idle at as far as oil pressure goes.
As for the brakes, its surely all 4 locking up. hands down. 



briano1234 said:


> Wow.
> 
> I would say the Master is shot... I don't think that it is the hose replacement.
> The master shoots fluid when you engage the pedal, then when let off the master pulls the fluid back.
> ...


Understood. Very strange as its a new master, and it really sucks as well. It is surely, 110% all 4 wheels locking. Im telling you i had the pedal to the metal and the car was falling on its face, 5mph at BEST. Wheels were molten hot. 

Can someone show me a photo with the correct location of the proportioning valves? My rear cables are snapped, but i also completely removed the cables from the assembly, so i dont see this causing any heartache in the system. The master IS new, but i dont know. a mechanic friend of mine suggested that perhaps the booster is shot. Not sure if this is a possibility.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> I guess one way to isolate the calipers/wheel cylinders from the master would be to open the lines at the wheel cylinders/calipers and see if the pressure bleeds out and the wheels free up? If with the hoses open the wheels still don't turn somehow both calipers locked up along with some other bizarre failure in the rear?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Well thats whats odd. the first time that this had happened........... I got the front of the car up in the air ( suspecting the front hoses were collapsed ). I then opened up the bleeders on the front calipers, both sides. Upon doing this............along with pumping the pedal a few times, all 4 wheels released and i was able to spin them more or less freely. Perhaps a clue? Im not sure.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Can someone show me a photo with the correct location of the proportioning valves? My rear cables are snapped, but i also completely removed the cables from the assembly, so i dont see this causing any heartache in the system. The master IS new, but i dont know. a mechanic friend of mine suggested that perhaps the booster is shot. Not sure if this is a possibility.




As you are looking at it they are located in the left front port, and the right rear.

If things got that hot, make sure there is no bluing on the metal. Then there is suspected bearing failure.
I have had new Masters bad off the bat especially re-manned ones.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> As you are looking at it they are located in the left front port, and the right rear.
> 
> If things got that hot, make sure there is no bluing on the metal. Then there is suspected bearing failure.
> I have had new Masters bad off the bat especially re-manned ones.


Ok my proportioning valves are in the correct locations. Is there a spring behind the pushrod that could have fallen out when i reassembled things? When i pulled the old master, that pushrod fell out of the booster. I put it back into place, put the new master on and that was that. 

Could the proportioning valves have failed causing this? do they ever fail? 

When you say " blueing of the metal " , which metal? the rotors? or what?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Ok my proportioning valves are in the correct locations. Is there a spring behind the pushrod that could have fallen out when i reassembled things? When i pulled the old master, that pushrod fell out of the booster. I put it back into place, put the new master on and that was that.
> 
> Could the proportioning valves have failed causing this? do they ever fail?
> 
> When you say " blueing of the metal " , which metal? the rotors? or what?


That push rod is supposed to be attached to the booster, it fits in a plate that you have to have the feet re-crimped to center the PIN. 
The spring on the booster is on the opposite side from where your push rod attaches you can't see it as it is internally inside of the booster and you can't see it from the
side you are attaching it to as it is on the other side of the Diaphragm. 
This is one reason that you have to take the bolt/nuts on the master equally so the push rod doesn't engage as half cocked. I would think that may be the root cause of your issue.
you need to suspect that the rod is out of position, and if that is the fact, then it could be binding your master or out of center prevent it from releasing.

Proportional valves do fail but it you would have one side or the other rear locking up. Not all 4.

Bluing is that the inside of the Drum would have blue streaks on the shiney steel, and if gotten hot enough you may have cracked them. If things get really hot, then the metal can un-harden. Bearing seals have been known to fail under excess heat, rears are easier to re-install but the front ones are a little different.

Over heated metal can fatigue easier or wear quicker... Personally I would remove the drums and Rotors to hear them "ring" and or inspect them for cracks.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> That push rod is supposed to be attached to the booster, it fits in a plate that you have to have the feet re-crimped to center the PIN.
> The spring on the booster is on the opposite side from where your push rod attaches you can't see it as it is internally inside of the booster and you can't see it from the
> side you are attaching it to as it is on the other side of the Diaphragm.
> This is one reason that you have to take the bolt/nuts on the master equally so the push rod doesn't engage as half cocked. I would think that may be the root cause of your issue.
> ...



Thanks for this info brian........OFF comes the damn master tonight !!! Im getting tired of bleeding these dang brakes over and over and over again lol. Hopefully I find that pushrod was cocked a little bit and can straighten this out without draining fluid, cracking the lines loose or even having to re-bleed OR spend money. Gosh wouldnt that be a beautiful thing...........


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks for this info brian........OFF comes the damn master tonight !!! Im getting tired of bleeding these dang brakes over and over and over again lol. Hopefully I find that pushrod was cocked a little bit and can straighten this out without draining fluid, cracking the lines loose or even having to re-bleed OR spend money. Gosh wouldnt that be a beautiful thing...........


The Pushrod is anchored to the Diaphragm if it came off and you didn't attach it back to the Diaphragm and secure the little feeties.... then it can move any which way it wants.

You will see what I mean when you get it off. There is a plate that is secured to the Diaphragm on that plate there are little tabs feet what ever that secures the pushrod to it. I had to remove the booster on my 90 to effect repair. If the Plate is damaged, and you can't re-secure the plate, then you are looking at a new booster.

To remove the booster you have to undo the clevis pin on the pedal assembly to free the pedal arm to the inner pushrod.
(involves getting inside the car) Externally there is the booster Vacuum tube, and 3 nuts that hold it to the firewall, a 13 or 15mm ratcheting speed wrench that articulates comes in handy, and there isn't a whole lotta room.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

We likely have a winner here. When I read this a little bit ago I was thinking the rod shouldn't come out. Came out to look at a spare booster and sure enough it's held in by the bent tangs Brian refers to

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

BoostedOne said:


> We likely have a winner here. When I read this a little bit ago I was thinking the rod shouldn't come out. Came out to look at a spare booster and sure enough it's held in by the bent tangs Brian refers to
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


Shoulda took a picture, I am going on 9 or 10 year old memories... It buggered me for a minute.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Here's a pic. Hard area to get a decent shot though with marginal lighting and a cell phone camera










Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

BoostedOne said:


> Here's a pic. Hard area to get a decent shot though with marginal lighting and a cell phone camera


That's what I am talking about. One of the fingers bent out, and I couldn't get it peaned on the car, so I had to take it out to support the inside push rod and get the angle to smack it back. 

Thanks for the photo.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Very interesting!!!! Thanks for the details, and photos. Im really hoping this is the issue. Last night, was just way too sick to be turning a wrench. Felt like death so i opted for rest instead. Still feeling about as healthy as the brakes on the cabriolet, but tonight i need to work on it. :thumbdown:

Boosted, you mention you have a spare laying around huh? hmmm


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

briano1234 said:


> To remove the booster you have to undo the clevis pin on the pedal assembly to free the pedal arm to the inner pushrod.
> (involves getting inside the car) Externally there is the booster Vacuum tube, and 3 nuts that hold it to the firewall, a 13 or 15mm ratcheting speed wrench that articulates comes in handy, and there isn't a whole lotta room.


If I am just pulling the booster, I undo the clevis at the pedal, then unbolt the master and gently pull it forward, and then remove the booster from the bracket, not the three nuts at the firewall. There are 4 nuts holding the booster to the bracket, every one I have run across is 13mm head nuts. As Brian mentioned, gear wrenches are invaluable for this task, especially for the lower two. As a side note, I thank the manufacturer of gear wrenches so much, just for this task. Back in the 80s and 90s when the only reasonably priced ratcheting wrenches were those crappy dog bone looking wrenches, those two lower nuts took FOREVER. 

Back to the subject. When unbolting the booster from the bracket, a swivel head gear wrench helps, but not totally necessary as long as you dont have the extended length wrenches. Theres enough room to swing the wrench adequately if they are the standard length, especially if the ratcheting mechanism is in good shape and not really sticky.

You dont want to remove the master and bracket by removing the 3 bolts at the firewall. One, I dont think you can even get to the lower two bolts with the booster in place(access would be through the bottom, and the sides of the bracket curve inward at the bottom under the nut), and even if you could get them off, you also have to take the bolt out of the stiffener gusset that goes to the frame rail and try to remove and install that as one big piece. 




Derekxj said:


> Very interesting!!!! Thanks for the details, and photos. Im really hoping this is the issue. Last night, was just way too sick to be turning a wrench. Felt like death so i opted for rest instead. Still feeling about as healthy as the brakes on the cabriolet, but tonight i need to work on it. :thumbdown:
> 
> Boosted, you mention you have a spare laying around huh? hmmm


Well, if you're feeling like hell, best to listen to your body. THe more you push yourself the longer it takes to get over it. I used to be "Mr Work Through Anything", not even taking sick days. Not anymore.. I feel something coming on, I call out the next day, make some homemade chicken noodle vegetable soup, load up on NyQuil and sleep.. Get up the next day and take some theraflu daytime to get some stuff done for work if I have to(from home), and then by afternoon take more nyquil and knock myself back out. I dont get much done for a day and a half, but it usually knocks whatever it was out so I don't go around at 25-50% capacity for a week or two anymore. I tell people who work for me here at work the same thing.. I notice someone with that look and sound that indicates in a few days they are going to be down for the count, I tell em go home and take care of themselves.


Anyhow, back to the booster. Yes, I have a spare. But to be honest, I am not 100% sure if its good or not. One, the pushrod is retained, but it is free to jiggle around a bit. Second, I am not sure if the diaphragm is good. I only had a few moments to look at it last night. But it does not have a master on it(so that hole is wide open) and if I blow into the vacuum port air comes out of the hole where the master goes. I THINK that is normal and that whole region is under vacuum in operation, but not 100% sure. I never paid that close attention to the boosters before. 

From what I remember though, I do think what I am questioning is normal, because when the master cylinder seals wear out its common for the vacuum in the booster to suck the fluid out of the master and it accumulates in the booster and then rots out the booster. Maybe brian knows off hand.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

BoostedOne said:


> *If I am just pulling the booster, I undo the clevis at the pedal, then unbolt the master and gently pull it forward, and then remove the booster from the bracket, not the three nuts at the firewall. There are 4 nuts holding the booster to the bracket, every one I have run across is 13mm head nuts. As Brian mentioned, gear wrenches are invaluable for this task, especially for the lower two. As a side note, I thank the manufacturer of gear wrenches so much, just for this task. Back in the 80s and 90s when the only reasonably priced ratcheting wrenches were those crappy dog bone looking wrenches, those two lower nuts took FOREVER.
> *



Your Right it is removing the booster from the bracket, I told you I was going on old memories.  I used to have a 13mm Cresent Geared wrench that had the articulation on it, it was the perfect length for loosening or tightening the Dizzy bolt and the geared box was half the size of the GEARWRENCH brand, but I losted it. Haven't found one the same since. But then again, I just bought another at Northern Tools as locally here they were the Cheapest place to buy them.







BoostedOne said:


> *From what I remember though, I do think what I am questioning is normal, because when the master cylinder seals wear out its common for the vacuum in the booster to suck the fluid out of the master and it accumulates in the booster and then rots out the booster. Maybe brian knows off hand.*


Yep, had that happen to a friend. He asked me "Where is my Brake Fluid going, there are no leaks on the ground?" I said did you check the inside of the booster? DOH..
If you catch it in time it rarely destroys the diaphragm (If it won't eat rubber seals in the cylinders why should it eat the diaphragm?).

Not saying it can't, but then I am reminded when I got my first MG back on the road and made the mistake of using WAGNER DOT3 brake fluid, and I learned the differnces between natural rubber seals (that I had) and synthetic..... 4 wheel cylinder rebuild, the Master and the clutch slave and flushing all the lines out.... I found out why Castrol GT/LMA was all about "back in the day".


I usually clean it out with a Paper town and Brake clean along with my mighty magic finger picker.... The fluid usually stays in the bottom half of the booster.
You might see it leak between the booster and the master cylinder connection, which I had happen once.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks for all the info gentleman. I just removed the master. Pin fell out as suspected. I just noticed the booster says *** on it. Its a replacement and looks fairly new. Now. My inners dont look the same as those in the photo you posted boosted. Not sure if this is even the correct pin at all??? Im not sure what to make of any of this right now. Dont want to just reasemble and have the same issue.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks for all the info gentleman. I just removed the master. Pin fell out as suspected. I just noticed the booster says *** on it. Its a replacement and looks fairly new. Now. My inners dont look the same as those in the photo you posted boosted. Not sure if this is even the correct pin at all??? Im not sure what to make of any of this right now. Dont want to just reasemble and have the same issue.


Looks like the booster has a tab that is broken.
You may want to start looking in to a replacement.
Napa shows one for 161 bucks...


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Looks like the booster has a tab that is broken.
> You may want to start looking in to a replacement.
> Napa shows one for 161 bucks...


If one is broken, one of them is surely STRAIGHT out and the other is bent clear straight over and would need to be pryed up........

Could 2 of the 3 hold it in adequately? If i really have to spend 160 bucks.......the car is going to have to sit for yet another 2 weeks as im really in bad shape right now financially. 

Also, I WILL be using neverseize on the threads before i put this one back in or a new one in........to heck with it!!!!!! 
I spent literally, about 2.5 hours trying to get those 4 nuts off the back end of the booster. Quite literally a nightmare. The last one on the bottom I 
had no choice but to get them from the bottom. But, i was able to crack them all free. Tonight I will continue to spin them off and pull the booster out.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

I am not sure that a f*g means its aftermarket. My 87 has a f*g booster as well as the VW Audi logo I think.

Heres another tip(too late  ).. Take the lower two nuts off first.. the tops are easy. Save them for last. If you take the tops off first, at first on the lower nut the weight of the booster is working against you then after you get the nut loosened it flops around making it that much more difficult to remove. At installation do the top two nuts first.

Regarding the integrity of your current booster, I dunno. But while its out, blow into the vacuum port and see if it holds the air, or if the air comes out the master cylinder hole. If it does come out the master cylinder hole, the one I have here is probably fine. It should be, it came off a car that didnt have any known brake issues, i just never paid attention before how sealed the vacuum side of the diaphragm is sealed from the master, if at all.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> I am not sure that a f*g means its aftermarket. My 87 has a f*g booster as well as the VW Audi logo I think.
> 
> Heres another tip(too late  ).. Take the lower two nuts off first.. the tops are easy. Save them for last. If you take the tops off first, at first on the lower nut the weight of the booster is working against you then after you get the nut loosened it flops around making it that much more difficult to remove. At installation do the top two nuts first.
> 
> Regarding the integrity of your current booster, I dunno. But while its out, blow into the vacuum port and see if it holds the air, or if the air comes out the master cylinder hole. If it does come out the master cylinder hole, the one I have here is probably fine. It should be, it came off a car that didnt have any known brake issues, i just never paid attention before how sealed the vacuum side of the diaphragm is sealed from the master, if at all.


Okay i'll try that for re-installation thanks. I'll try blowing into it and see what happens. This booster is surely a replacement, as the Jackarse PO kindly stripped the nuts holding the bracket to the firewall...........All the signs of someone that didnt know what they were doing being there were obvious. Plus it looks brand new on the inside. 

How much would you want, if yours is good ?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Okay i'll try that for re-installation thanks. I'll try blowing into it and see what happens. This booster is surely a replacement, as the Jackarse PO kindly stripped the nuts holding the bracket to the firewall...........All the signs of someone that didnt know what they were doing being there were obvious. Plus it looks brand new on the inside.
> 
> How much would you want, if yours is good ?


Ok, F.A.G. on your car sticker is Fischer Automotive Group, I thought that it was a moniker for Febi Automotive Group, which is a part of Bilstein.
They aren't after market parts, they OEM'ed a ton-o-stuff to the euro market OEM.

Either way, your booster looks ca-ca-do-do. Now they used these same boosters on a crapload of cars VW-wise, so you may find one on a golf jetta passant audi or whatever. They aren't that expensive in the YARD of your choice. It wasn't that it was bad, it was that you got your Master Cylinder on wrong, or cocked the rod as you tightened the master. You have to go equally down on the master nuts, that is 5 turns on one 5 turns on the other. I made the same mistake you did, so it can happen.
It isn't the PO's fault, or the Boosters Fault, or the MC fault.

I imagine that the rod worked for a while then the half cocked rod became wedged and bound forcing the master cylinder to be depressed, and no matter how many times you pressed it, it wouldn't free-up.

Yeah I am stating the blame on you, and your in-experience, but you learned a valuable life lesson.
Take M/C's down equally a little at a time. 

The only difference is that in my case, I wasn't driving the car, It the pedal didn't feel right, and I didn't distort the Tabs so I could re-pean the tabs back. 

Yours looks like they are folded over and one part is missing and I suspect it is that broken bit I am seeing in the photo on the right bottom.
Ca-Ca occurs occasionally learn from it and move on.....


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Ok, F.A.G. on your car sticker is Fischer Automotive Group, I thought that it was a moniker for Febi Automotive Group, which is a part of Bilstein.
> They aren't after market parts, they OEM'ed a ton-o-stuff to the euro market OEM.
> 
> Either way, your booster looks ca-ca-do-do. Now they used these same boosters on a crapload of cars VW-wise, so you may find one on a golf jetta passant audi or whatever. They aren't that expensive in the YARD of your choice. It wasn't that it was bad, it was that you got your Master Cylinder on wrong, or cocked the rod as you tightened the master. You have to go equally down on the master nuts, that is 5 turns on one 5 turns on the other. I made the same mistake you did, so it can happen.
> ...



Well in my lack of booster knowledge, When i ORIGINALLY took it apart to replace master, the pin simply just fell out. So i suspect the PO installed it cockeyed. causing the tabs to bend and so forth.......When i reinstalled the master, i simply just put the pin IN the MASTER, and then bolted down. I recall running the nuts down evenly. Either way......Yeah it is what it is now and i'll have to deal with it! lol. Have my mechanic buddy getting me a price on one as he gets parts for cost obviously. Hopefully it comes in nice and cheap and I can just pay him before his bill is due being as im broke at the moment, and get this car back together and stopping properly.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

OH! While im here and have this on my mind............

Im still having that " getting it started while cold " issue. Until the car is completely warmed up, it really wont start unless i put the gas pedal to the floor while cranking, fuel pumps both new. FPR new. Once it warms up. starts RIGHT up, also runs alot better once warmed up. 

Anyone care to throw in their 2 cents on this?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey gents. So ive been sick as a dog. Realized i cant afford the new booster now. Can someone help me figure out if the way i bent the feww remaining tabs over will work? Is there any outward pull or force on this pin that could put me in the same situation i was in?? Wanting to put this booster back in, but would like to wait on advice first.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Hey gents. So ive been sick as a dog. Realized i cant afford the new booster now. Can someone help me figure out if the way i bent the feww remaining tabs over will work? Is there any outward pull or force on this pin that could put me in the same situation i was in?? Wanting to put this booster back in, but would like to wait on advice first.


Your guess is as good as mine, rock with it but source a new.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Thanks brian, Im going to do exactly this. hopefully the brakes dont continue to lock up!!!!!! 

Can anyone tell me what the camber is *supposed* to be set at? While i may not be able to completely handle the alignment myself, id atleast like to get the camber close so that once i put it back together tonight i can drive it around a bit.


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## vdub6v (Apr 22, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Thanks brian, Im going to do exactly this. hopefully the brakes dont continue to lock up!!!!!!
> 
> Can anyone tell me what the camber is *supposed* to be set at? While i may not be able to completely handle the alignment myself, id atleast like to get the camber close so that once i put it back together tonight i can drive it around a bit.



I googled it and this came up, pretty awesome Brian1234

http://www.cabby-info.com/Files/ReplacingFrontStruts.pdf


While it does not have the camber setting, it seems a good rule of thumb to take an angle measurement prior to taking it apart.

This guys post for a cabrio claims min/max is -0.9 to -0.2 degrees
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...amber-can-not-be-adjusted-on-a-VW-Cabrio-quot

BTW, nice work with everything that you have done to save this car! Certainly a valiant effort


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Good afternoon Ladies and Gentleman. 

SO. Here's an update: 

My fix to the brake booster with the pin.........seems to be working out. I was able to get the brakes bled and pedal feels pretty darn good. Drove it all night wednesday night, took off work yesterday and drove it all day long yesterday. 
Took her for an alignment. They straightened out my wheel, and the kid who did the alignment was a perfectionist........He spent about an hour aligning the car, did a fantastic job. Car rides REALLY nice surprisingly with the coilovers. 
Brakes feel great. Steering feels awesome, except for the clanking coming from the lower bearing falling out of the column causing slop. 

I ordered this to resolve it. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Mk1-Lower-steering-column-bearing-repair-part-prevents-bearing-damage-/181275885886?fits=Make%3AVolkswagen%7CModel%3ACabriolet&hash=item2a34e2813e&vxp=mtr

Hopefully that does the trick. Have an exhaust rattle. Will get a new muffler slapped in on my next day off. Im planning on driving the car until i can work out any other bugs there may be. Knock on wood...havent had that hard starting issue. 

My Water temp gauge randomly started working.....and is continuing to work. go figure. Not complaining!!!!! 

NOW...........The OIL PRESSURE SITUATION. 
After driving the car for a good while, the oil pressure gauge drops down to about a needles thickness below the " 1 ". at this point the light in the dash starts blinking. Again, only found this happening during the day when it was very hot out and i had been driving the car for a long while. Most times it floats a little above " 1 " bar after warmed up. Should this be concerning me? 

LAST question...... am i missing a gear in my transmission???? doing about 50-60 the engines screaming at about 3k. Is this normal? 

ALSO, I filled up the gastank. No problems.......except for the fact that the gauge wont go all the way to FULL, and infact will fall down to below a half of a tank while driving.....sometimes the gauge even seems to raise and lower slowly with speed / engine rpm. Very odd. Been turning heads everywhere I go.........getting ALOT of compliments and " what the heck is with that interior " type comments. I love it. Had two people stop me while i was getting in the car after getting coffee on seperate occasions and ask me if it was alright to take a photo of the car. Makes me feel pretty proud about what i've done here. This car was bonified junk-yard material when I got it.....and now, well............i'll let the pictures speak. Mind you......I used a crappy spray detailer after a waash and the results were aweful. More photo's once i finish detailing it.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Coolness getting it back on the road.

Oil, Change to 20W50 and a WIX or Napa Gold filter.
That is about normal for oil when it is hot. The Filter if you are using a Generic, Fram filter may cause the blinky light from hades.

Lower steering bearing can be fixed for the cost of a hose clamp.


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## Tisser (Dec 25, 2014)

Flaky water temp fix

I also remember reading somehwere that making sure all the dash grounds are good and soild can alleviate that sort of thing. (higher rpms is higher voltage running from the alt) Can't promise that's gonna solve the issue, but it's worth a shot. I know while my dash is all pulled apart I'm going to try and reground it. 

Car's lookin good though man!


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> Coolness getting it back on the road.
> 
> Oil, Change to 20W50 and a WIX or Napa Gold filter.
> That is about normal for oil when it is hot. The Filter if you are using a Generic, Fram filter may cause the blinky light from hades.
> ...


Thanks brian. Thats the weird part. Im already running 20/50. oil level is mint & the filter i believe is a MANN. 

I'll probably use a hose clamp fix for now. I feel that the piece i bought is a bit nicer / more sturdy. hopefully it does the trick.



Tisser said:


> Flaky water temp fix
> 
> I also remember reading somehwere that making sure all the dash grounds are good and soild can alleviate that sort of thing. (higher rpms is higher voltage running from the alt) Can't promise that's gonna solve the issue, but it's worth a shot. I know while my dash is all pulled apart I'm going to try and reground it.
> 
> Car's lookin good though man!


Yeah, i double grounded my cluster right back to the firewall with a nice gauge wire. I dont think grounding could be the problem. it COULD be, technically speaking but i really did all i could to insure my grounds were good but again who knows. I believe the temp gauge is a bad wire somewhere between the gauge and the sender. I'll figure it out eventually but for now its working so im not touching it lol.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

another weird electrical thing worth noting, OTHER than the fuel gauge issue.........is that while i have the blinker on, the voltage gauge down below actually bounces up and down along with the blinker. It's kind of annoying me. I know i know. Most likely a bad ground or connection somewhere, but where?????? Also..............I replaced the oil temperature switch on the filter location and the sender on the side of the head, wires are in the correct spots but my oil temp gauge is still pinned all the way to the right anytime the key is on. Can someone help me out with this one? 

Thanks! :thumbup:


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> while i have the blinker on, the voltage gauge down below actually bounces up and down along with the blinker. It's kind of annoying me.


Isn't that normal?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

77kafer said:


> Isn't that normal?


Not in any other car i've ever owned so im going to have to go with no on this one lol


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> is that while i have the blinker on, the voltage gauge down below actually bounces up and down along with the blinker. It's kind of annoying me.


Normal.

http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Drop

Edit: If you wish to eliminate this quirk, you'll need to wire the VDO gauge direct to the battery. VW wired it in an extremely roundabout way, which leads to voltage drop at the gauge, which is what you're seeing every time the blinkers blink on.



Derekxj said:


> Also..............I replaced the oil temperature switch on the filter location and the sender on the side of the head, wires are in the correct spots but my oil temp gauge is still pinned all the way to the right anytime the key is on. Can someone help me out with this one?


The ground (and "power", for that matter) for the center console gauges is a convoluted mess. You can try adding a straight ground for the gauge and see if that helps. It could very well be a gauge problem too.

As for the pressure: Don't rely on the VDO gauge. Put a real pressure gauge on the engine to see what it is at operating temperature. Minimum of 2 bar at 2000 rpm and engine oil temperature at 80°C (2 bar = 29 psi). If it is, in fact, within specs, then there's an electrical issue going on between the senders and the gauges.


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

Mine does it, so I thought it was normal. It is rather a jerky needle movement as opposed to a smooth needle movement like in American cars, but when the bulb blinks the needle should register.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

kamzcab86 said:


> Normal.
> 
> http://www.cabby-info.com/electrical.htm#Drop
> 
> ...


Ohhhh this silly wonky VW electrical systems drive me nuts lol. I'll take your advice and look into swapping the gauge with a known good one to prove that out first as its a relatively quick test before tracing wires. 

I'll probably wind up rewiring the voltage gauge. I like to see whats ACTUALLY going on with the car. In-fact.........i may just rip out all of the VDO gauges and install autometers in the console just like i have in all of my other vehicles. they are highly accurate and with the proper senders wont let you down!! Naturally all in PSI because im an american fool :laugh:

Thanks!!! 


77kafer said:


> Mine does it, so I thought it was normal. It is rather a jerky needle movement as opposed to a smooth needle movement like in American cars, but when the bulb blinks the needle should register.


Yeah, this may be normal i guess but its certainly NOT right. How could a blinking little light draw so much juice as to actually bounce a gauge that hard. my jeep, rabbit, other jeep, none of them do this lol.


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## kamzcab86 (Feb 14, 2002)

Derekxj said:


> In-fact.........i may just rip out all of the VDO gauges and install autometers in the console just like i have in all of my other vehicles.


VDO is a long-standing maker of gauges, going back decades. Your console VDO gauges would be a hell of a lot more accurate if it weren't for Volkswagen's ingenious wiring methodology. 

And remember, you have two blinking blinker lights. If they are still incandescent, that's 21 watts each for a total of 42 watts on each side, which equals almost 4 amps. That's actually a decent power draw.

Replacing all bulbs with LEDs (and an electronic flasher relay) will also diminish your bouncing needle. 
:beer:


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## 77kafer (Jul 29, 2004)

kamzcab86 :thumbup:


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

The oil pressure gauge pegs when the key is turned on? What happens when it's running?

Maybe the gauge wire and the switch wire was reversed?

When it comes to gauges though, install what you like. I have a cabby dash/console in my caddy, and went with Autometer Phantom gauges. Same functions as stock, op, voltage, oil temp. But to me the Phantom line is just so much easier to read. On my oil pressure I went mechanical as well, so there's no question about the electrics. But I did run braided stainless AN4 Teflon hose instead of that crappy plastic capillary tube that comes with the gauge. 

With an Autometer you won't see the voltage flicker either. I am not knocking the VDO, but their action is so fast they react to everything. Put a large sound system in the car and play some music with fast drum beats and the needle swings so fast with the beat it goes from 10v to 15,16v... the Autometer action is dampened.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> The oil pressure gauge pegs when the key is turned on? What happens when it's running?
> 
> Maybe the gauge wire and the switch wire was reversed?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info on the gauge setup. As for the oil pressure gauge............As soon as i turn the key, it goes BAM. far right side. Stays there no matter if its running good, bad, fast, slow. Just stays there, until i turn the key back and take it out. Wires all " seem " to be good at the sender. What do you mean by the gauge wire and the switch wire? 



Anyway ladies and germs...........Been driving the cabby all weekend. Non-stop compliments on this car seriously. 5 a day lol. People wanting to take pictures. Surely a good feeling. Anyway............I continue to have a few weird issues, some very concerning......some are not. 
Perhaps you kind folks could help me atleast weed a few of them out. 

- Oil pressure gauge.......we've beaten this one up fairly well....I need to test the circuit with a known - good gauge. I've got a few spares and will be doing this during the week. 

- Engine RPM's. So. I know these crapo-matics arent great in this regard, But when doing 50-60 mph or better i just cant help but feel that im waiting for the tranny to shift again. Is this only a 3 speed transmission????? How can anybody maintain highway speeds in these things without killing the engine if this is the case? Im talking......60 mph im well over 3k. This is REALLY high!!!!!! Pretty sure my rabbit is turning half that at about that speed. granted its a diesel with a 5 speed with a much different final drive gear but still. This cant be the way its sapposed to be. If so.........What the heck was VW thinking???? 

- Fuel gauge continues to act up. Moves all around sometimes goes way up. sometimes stays low. No idea why or anything. 
Related to fuel........I must be at about 3/4 of a tank now since filling up saturday..... This morning i got into the car and it absolutely reeked of gas. 
Yes, the O ring on the cover when I pulled the fuel pump / sender was in decent condition.....No leaks to report underneath the car, yet anyway. 

- Sometimes, if sitting in park or neutral and i give it a rev. The RPM's will hang at about 1500. rev it again. comes down again to the same spot. It will not be until i give it a nice hard rev hitting 3k or more, that she will then fall back down to its normal 1000 idle. What could be causing this? 

- I have a KNOWN vacuum leak where that little short tube comes off of the intake boot. Yes, i've read briano's thread on this. 
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32188-Digifant-Air-Intake-Tube-Repair

However mine, actually has a noticable gash in it RIGHT in the corner where the small tube ends. Not only this but it is SO thin that infact this little tube often takes a flattened oval shape rather than the round shape its sapposed to have. Can i cut it off completely and glue in a double ended barbed fitting into the intake hose to attach to? Not sure where to take this one.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

*

- Engine RPM's. So. I know these crapo-matics arent great in this regard, But when doing 50-60 mph or better i just cant help but feel that im waiting for the tranny to shift again. Is this only a 3 speed transmission????? How can anybody maintain highway speeds in these things without killing the engine if this is the case? Im talking......60 mph im well over 3k. This is REALLY high!!!!!! Pretty sure my rabbit is turning half that at about that speed. granted its a diesel with a 5 speed with a much different final drive gear but still. This cant be the way its sapposed to be. If so.........What the heck was VW thinking???? *

TNA or TJ tranny's. The TJ has better mileage and lowers the rpm, you only need the Bell Housing off the TJ. I have no issues with either of my Auto's and regularly have them @ 80mph. The have been around since the late 60's early 70's with not much change except the final drive...They have been known to go over 400K before needing service as in a rebuild... 

*- Fuel gauge continues to act up. Moves all around sometimes goes way up. sometimes stays low. No idea why or anything. 
Related to fuel........I must be at about 3/4 of a tank now since filling up saturday..... This morning i got into the car and it absolutely reeked of gas. 
Yes, the O ring on the cover when I pulled the fuel pump / sender was in decent condition.....No leaks to report underneath the car, yet anyway. 
*

If you didn't lubricate the 0-ring, then it may have pinched. on the sender. I would look at the Fuel Feed lines under the hood for cracking where they attach to the hard line.
There was a TSB on them.


*- Sometimes, if sitting in park or neutral and i give it a rev. The RPM's will hang at about 1500. rev it again. comes down again to the same spot. It will not be until i give it a nice hard rev hitting 3k or more, that she will then fall back down to its normal 1000 idle. What could be causing this? 
*

That sounds more like a Kick-down issue as your throttle cable goes to the transmission then from the tranny to the throttle body. One of your cables may need adjusting or lubrication (tri-flow)


*- I have a KNOWN vacuum leak where that little short tube comes off of the intake boot. Yes, i've read briano's thread on this. 
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32188-Digifant-Air-Intake-Tube-Repair * You read my threads? wow.

*However mine, actually has a noticable gash in it RIGHT in the corner where the small tube ends. Not only this but it is SO thin that infact this little tube often takes a flattened oval shape rather than the round shape its sapposed to have. Can i cut it off completely and glue in a double ended barbed fitting into the intake hose to attach to? Not sure where to take this one.*

Go to a hardware store and or Automotive store and look for a "pipe" kit. It is a Barbed fitting that the barb has a flat ring and screw thread and a rubber washer.
You cut off the bad spot flush, insert the barbed threaded end in to the hole then place the washer on the inside and the nut. 

Other-wise look for a good one off the interweb.


Is it your Fuel gauge or your sending unit?

More than you ever wanted to know about the fuel sending unit.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> *
> 
> - Engine RPM's. So. I know these crapo-matics arent great in this regard, But when doing 50-60 mph or better i just cant help but feel that im waiting for the tranny to shift again. Is this only a 3 speed transmission????? How can anybody maintain highway speeds in these things without killing the engine if this is the case? Im talking......60 mph im well over 3k. This is REALLY high!!!!!! Pretty sure my rabbit is turning half that at about that speed. granted its a diesel with a 5 speed with a much different final drive gear but still. This cant be the way its sapposed to be. If so.........What the heck was VW thinking???? *
> 
> ...


OK so im not sure what TJ or TNA means, but ........from what i gather your telling me that this IS normal for this automatic transmission and I shouldnt be worried about holding 3500 rpms for long periods of time? If so.....then good news, im happy. 

Im probably going to pick a night later this week and run through these issues one by one and hopefully get most of them figured out. Especially the fuel smell.........thats really bothering me. 

ONE last problem that i forgot to mention that bugs me...............The stupid " seat belt " light on the dash stays on, full time. The wires under the seats look to be in good condition, and are both hooked up on both sides. What would cause this????? 
While i HATE doing this, im about to just pull the bulb out of the dash so i dont have to look at it anymore!!!


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## Tisser (Dec 25, 2014)

Derekxj said:


> OK so im not sure what TJ or TNA means, but ........from what i gather your telling me that this IS normal for this automatic transmission and I shouldnt be worried about holding 3500 rpms for long periods of time? If so.....then good news, im happy.


TJ or TNA are transmission codes, they used a few different tranny's in these cars throughout the years, all basically the same with some slightly different gear ratios. 

Tranny codes

The TNA was the one that I had in my 85, and yeah its a small engine and tranny, so it's gonna be runnin high RPM's with only a 3 speed, I was pushing about 3-3.5 at 60mph too. No worries they're built to handle high RPM's for a VERY long time. Thats a reason the engines like their diesel oil if you ask me haha. :laugh:


As far as the seatbelt wires, did you follow them up to the dash? On the 85 mine were corroded apart about 1/2 way up the front carpet but looked okay the rest of the way.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Tisser said:


> TJ or TNA are transmission codes, they used a few different tranny's in these cars throughout the years, all basically the same with some slightly different gear ratios.
> 
> Tranny codes
> 
> ...


thanks for the tranny info. Good to know. Going to highway test the car tonight so hopefully she handles the open roads well at 60+. havent really taken her above that since getting it on the road.

As for the seatbelt thing.......I cant help but feel like it has something to do with that dumb chiming relay. I need to look at the schematics. I DO know that the car didnt have the relay with the dumb chime when i got it. and the light was never on, atleast that I can remember. In one of my parts scores i acquired one of these relays so i installed it. Wires looked just fine atleast under the carpet anyway.......I checked out all wires that were under the carpet while i had the carpet out and everything exposed.


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## Tisser (Dec 25, 2014)

Derekxj said:


> thanks for the tranny info. Good to know. Going to highway test the car tonight so hopefully she handles the open roads well at 60+. havent really taken her above that since getting it on the road.
> 
> As for the seatbelt thing.......I cant help but feel like it has something to do with that dumb chiming relay. I need to look at the schematics. I DO know that the car didnt have the relay with the dumb chime when i got it. and the light was never on, atleast that I can remember. In one of my parts scores i acquired one of these relays so i installed it. Wires looked just fine atleast under the carpet anyway.......I checked out all wires that were under the carpet while i had the carpet out and everything exposed.


Odd thing is my 85 never had the "seatbelt" light on, nor made a chime that it wasn't on (unless it doesn't do that when the car's running) I only had a terrible 'open door' chime that was almost certainly broken because it sounded like when you get a mosquito fly into your ear. Very well could be the relay too. Lovely german electrical work. They were so good at everything else why'd VW have to be so bad at electrical?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

SO........Everyone ready for a story????? You all dont know me well engouh to truly understand the $hit luck that I personally have, so i wont keep you guessing. 

Last night, spent about 2 hours detailing the car after work. Was planning on taking it to a decent sized local VW meet here on the island. So, get done......quite proud of my work decided to go get a cup of coffee. Pull into the local Dunkin Donuts parking lot.....
ANDDDDDDDDDDD I get T-Boned by some 90 year old lady. :facepalm: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

I saw her coming, I was going straight and 110% not at fault. Saw her moving and FAST....clearly wasnt going to stop. by the time i realized this i floored it. Had i had a 5 speed, i would have cleared and not been hit but this car doesnt accelerate worth of crap. So i floored it, and she hit me. Then..................As I sat there for a second I knew id have to face the heartsinking feeling of walking aroudn the back of the car to the pass side to see just how bad the damage was. 

Good news ladies and gents. The old glaucoma ridden bag missed my rear quarter by probably an inch........Nailed the rear bumper. Bumper popped off and flew away about 20 feet from the car. 

Heres the scary part. SHE DIDNT KNOW SHE HIT ME. I got the usual........" YOU WERE MOVING AT A GOOD CLIP!!! YOU da da da da you you just turned in YOURE CRAZY I DIDNT HIT YOU what are you even talking about IM GOING HOME THIS IS CRAZY LOOK ITS JUST A BUMPER MY CARS BRAND NEW what are you going to do call the COPS ?! BOTH of our rates are going to go UP All because of a bumper " So i said.......you know what lady, youre right. the gods came down, kindly removed my bumper for me, and placed it WAY over there.... " As i said this......shes trying to drive off, so i physcially had to stand infront of her big hunky chrysler or whatever the heck it was and call the cops so she couldnt leave. LONG story short...Spoke with the cop, he was an ex body-guy and was understanding of my anger. He gave me some strong compliments on the car, and couldnt believe i did the convertible top myself. I opted to just walk away from it. the rear crossmember was ALREADY pushed in on the driver side probably from a previous accident ( need to figure out how to fix this ), and while the bumper cover cracked, I was able to pop it back on and get it to stay. 

Lesson of the day? You truly cannot have nice things in the god dang state. People drive like A-holes......and when it comes down to it. you should REALLY be required to re-take your road licensing test every TEN years to maintain your license. sure it would be an inconvenience but it would keep alot of REALLY bad drivers off the road, and probably save alot of deaths too. 

*STORY OF MY LIFE!!!!!*


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Damn! Well, good thing is the story didn't go where I thought it was, with the car getting totalled before you could even give it to her.. man that would suuuuck.

I been busy and not on the forum much. But on the oil pressure gauge wiring, what I was talking about is the sender on the head is a combo sender. One terminal is for the dummy light, one is for the gauge. If you started the car and it did something else I would say maybe the wires were switched. 

As you probably know you have 3 wires for the gauge. Power, ground, and the gauge sender wire. Problem is, I cannot remember what happens on the gauge when it only has power and ground(if they peg or do not move). 
If they would normally peg with only power and ground, then you are having a break in the line somewhere between the gauge and the sender or the sender is bad(they do go bad). On the other hand, if they would normally not move without the sender wire hooked to anything and yours is pegging, then you either have a shorted wire or the sender is bad. In this case simply disconnecting the wires at the sender and turning the key on and seeing if the gauge does not move would tell you if its the sender or wiring.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Well that WOULD be my luck, but fortunately this time it wasnt that bad.....I've gota cloud over my head and not by choice lol. All my friends know it. despite my efforts.....its just a losing battle haha. I actually looked at the whole situation after, and physically laughed out loud to myself over it because thats just how it goes lol. 

The two wires are surely on correctly that much I know for sure. I'm beginning to think the gauge isnt grounding properly. Might be tomorrow night that I try and solve all of these silly little problems. While im on the topic of oil pressure. I realized last night that while the gauge flutters below " 1 bar " a little , and when this happens the oil light blinks while idling. If i pop the tranny into neutral, or park.........it stops blinking. Only does it in drive.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> I realized last night that while the gauge flutters below " 1 bar " a little , and when this happens the oil light blinks while idling. If i pop the tranny into neutral, or park.........it stops blinking. Only does it in drive.


Am I missing something? I thought you said the gauge stays pegged, whether the engine is running or not?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Am I missing something? I thought you said the gauge stays pegged, whether the engine is running or not?


Yes temp gauge does, here I was referring to the oil pressure gauge.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Yes temp gauge does, here I was referring to the oil pressure gauge.


if this is the water temp gauge, then
what is the fuel gauge doing?

If it is full deflection then I suspect that you either have the plug in backwards on the sender as in unplug the sensor if the gauge still pegs, then your 10 v stabilizer is suspect.

If you apply 12V or 9 to the gauge it will full scale deflect, too long in that position you can burn the gauge up.

If this is the oil pressure or oil temp gauge?  If you have your wires backwards on the can sensor then this may happen to the oil pressure indicator.

If this is the oil temp gauge then your sensor is bad on the oil flange.
If you have the oil flange wires backwards then this can happen.
The oil temp sender is black.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> what is the fuel gauge doing?
> 
> If it is full deflection then I suspect that you either have the plug in backwards on the sender as in unplug the sensor if the gauge still pegs, then your 10 v stabilizer is suspect.
> 
> If you apply 12V or 9 to the gauge it will full scale deflect, too long in that position you can burn the gauge up.


Fuel gauge reads inconstantly. When i filled the tank it would barely show as full. sometimes while driving it only shows half when i know theres more. Sometimes it shows 3/4. Its weird. I did however replace the 10v stabilizer on the cluster per your Cluster thread DIY.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Fuel gauge reads inconstantly. When i filled the tank it would barely show as full. sometimes while driving it only shows half when i know theres more. Sometimes it shows 3/4. Its weird. I did however replace the 10v stabilizer on the cluster per your Cluster thread DIY.


which gauge are you talking about full scale deflection specifically?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> which gauge are you talking about full scale deflection specifically?


A few " gauge issues " going on here. 

The oil TEMPERATURE gauge in the console. On the far right. I tried switching the connectors on the ( NEW ) sender on the side of the head and then the gauge dropped down to nothing as if the car was off. I know i have those connections right. 

The oil PRESSURE gauge in the console drops a littttttle bit below one once car really heats up ( not overheats ). Still runs great. Such as, when i come to a stop light and im sitting in drive with my foot on the brake, and that gauge is below the 1 bar line, the oil light in the dash will start blinking. I discovered last night that it only blinks when in gear, if i put the car in neutral, or park at a red light it stops blinking. Not sure if this is how it is sapposed to be. 

Then there is the FUEL GAUGE issue that i mentioned above.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> A few " gauge issues " going on here.
> 
> The oil TEMPERATURE gauge in the console. On the far right. I tried switching the connectors on the ( NEW ) sender on the side of the head and then the gauge dropped down to nothing as if the car was off. I know i have those connections right.
> 
> ...


ok what type Viscosity of oil, and what filter?


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> ok what type Viscosity of oil, and what filter?


Im running 20/50 oil, and a MANN filter. Also running the newer style higher volume oil pump that i replaced. Engine runs great, and i've been told 1-1.5 bar of oil pressure isnt a problem and where these engines usually run.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

ALSO gents, for those of you, that like me have that stupid little tube on the intake boot that is screwed up / ripped whatever............ This may be a really good solution. I wonder if home depot has anything like this. With the cement, and the bung;s that they come with i cant see this not making a completely air-proof vacuum leak proof seal on the intake boot

http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-RK908-Straight-Barbed-Cement/dp/B002N5PRO4/ref=sr_1_3?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1443029263&sr=1-3


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Ok, I went back to the last page and re-read. Forgive me, most of the time when I am on the site it is on the Tapatalk app, so if there is a bunch of rambling/chit chat going on, its tough to filter through the BS combined with keeping track of switching subjects between 4 different technical issues at any given time on that relatively small screen... 

I see now, your oil temp is always pegged, your oil pressure gauge looks to be working, you are just uneasy about the numbers. You did say you changed the oil temperature switch. Did you replace the oil _pressure switch_ at the filter housing, or the oil _temperature sende_r? The pressure switch has a male slide terminal. The temperature sender has what looks like a nail head. If you changed the pressure switch, did you go back with the standard one, or did you get one of the later model ones with the lower pressure I mentioned?

Regarding the pressure, the rule of thumb is 10psi per 1000 RPM when its warmed up. So 10psi at 1000, or just below at idle, 20psi at 2K, etc. If you have that you are fine.

On the oil temp gauge issue, try disconnecting the sender and see what the gauge does. Then ground the wire and see what the gauge does. Unplug the harness from the gauge and with the sender disconnected check between the wire and ground for a short.. If you show infinite resistance, ground the end of the wire and do the same check.


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

Derekxj said:


> ALSO gents, for those of you, that like me have that stupid little tube on the intake boot that is screwed up / ripped whatever............ This may be a really good solution. I wonder if home depot has anything like this. With the cement, and the bung;s that they come with i cant see this not making a completely air-proof vacuum leak proof seal on the intake boot
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Valterra-RK908-Straight-Barbed-Cement/dp/B002N5PRO4/ref=sr_1_3?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1443029263&sr=1-3


But the boot is rubber? THat cement is for attaching plastic to plastic?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

look here:
http://www.brasscraft.com/products.aspx?id=702

Hou could get a barbed hose kit that is threaded on one side, and then find a couple of flat washers and rubber washers that will seal it with a drop or 2 of RTV for good measure. 

Good hardware store.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> Ok, I went back to the last page and re-read. Forgive me, most of the time when I am on the site it is on the Tapatalk app, so if there is a bunch of rambling/chit chat going on, its tough to filter through the BS combined with keeping track of switching subjects between 4 different technical issues at any given time on that relatively small screen...
> 
> I see now, your oil temp is always pegged, your oil pressure gauge looks to be working, you are just uneasy about the numbers. You did say you changed the oil temperature switch. Did you replace the oil _pressure switch_ at the filter housing, or the oil _temperature sende_r? The pressure switch has a male slide terminal. The temperature sender has what looks like a nail head. If you changed the pressure switch, did you go back with the standard one, or did you get one of the later model ones with the lower pressure I mentioned?
> 
> ...


Yes, all of what you said is right. i changed both the Nail head sensor on the oil filter flange which is for the oil TEMPERATURE, AND the big cylinder oil PRESSURE sender that is on the side of the head, which controls pressure gauge and the idiot light. I ordered it as an aftermarket from i believe AZ AUtohauz since they were the cheapest if i remember correctly. Perhaps its not the right one for my year? Not sure. Going to try and perform those tests tomorrow night thanks!! 



BoostedOne said:


> But the boot is rubber? THat cement is for attaching plastic to plastic?


Not sure if its meant for rubber such as the intake boot but its an ABS cement so obviously good for the plastic. Id have to see. 



briano1234 said:


> look here:
> http://www.brasscraft.com/products.aspx?id=702
> 
> Hou could get a barbed hose kit that is threaded on one side, and then find a couple of flat washers and rubber washers that will seal it with a drop or 2 of RTV for good measure.
> ...


Yes exactly what i was thinking!!!!!! The problem would be, finding a nut that would be an NPT Thread. Im going to go to the hardware store tomorrow night and poke around and find something that will work as i believe this to be my largest vac. leak.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

Hey everyone. Been driving the Cabby. Have about 550 miles on the old girl now. 

Some things that need attention but right now there's one thing upsetting me the most. 

My door cards, from mid door down, are soaked after the past two days of rain and tomorrow will rain also. Sitting in the car while it rains I feel around the whole door on the inside and can feel no water coming in. Can't even feel it wet in any other spots, but my beloved EA fabric is soaked. This is why the panels were all peeling in the car for sure!!!!!! Can anyone advise to me how they may be getting wet?


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## vdub6v (Apr 22, 2004)

The door plastic/moister barrier between the door card and the door shrinks and deteriorates overtime. When the rain water gets into the interior of your door, instead of the water running down the plastic, it absorbs into your door panels!

On my older VWs, I've pulled the door cards and replaced the withered plastic with a 6 mil plastic sheet from home depot with clear silicone chalk.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

vdub6v said:


> The door plastic/moister barrier between the door card and the door shrinks and deteriorates overtime. When the rain water gets into the interior of your door, instead of the water running down the plastic, it absorbs into your door panels!
> 
> On my older VWs, I've pulled the door cards and replaced the withered plastic with a 6 mil plastic sheet from home depot with clear silicone chalk.


Not a bad idea!!!! However. The plastic was in great shape and we'll attached. Plus when I got the car the lower cards seemed to be peeling fabric and obviously this is why. Even if this were the case how could enough water get thru the plastic and even inside the door to soak the Masonite backing board enough and then the foam and then the fabric.


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## CajunSpike (Mar 11, 2009)

Unless its leaking in where the glass meets the roof...follows the glass inside down into the door.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

CajunSpike said:


> Unless its leaking in where the glass meets the roof...follows the glass inside down into the door.


There's a TINY gap there....however not enough to cause this I don't think. I've power washed the car several times now and its only ever caused but a drip down the inside of the window. No pouring in 
Plus......why the BOTTOM of the doorcard and not the top? This is why she needs to stay garaged!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> There's a TINY gap there....however not enough to cause this I don't think. I've power washed the car several times now and its only ever caused but a drip down the inside of the window. No pouring in
> Plus......why the BOTTOM of the doorcard and not the top? This is why she needs to stay garaged!


The doors have pucker drains on the bottoms edges, if those aren't cleaned and cleared they cause water to back up and not drain out of the door.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The doors have pucker drains on the bottoms edges, if those aren't cleaned and cleared they cause water to back up and not drain out of the door.


Thanks brian. As i sit here in the car, in the pouring rain i can hear what sounds like water drops hitting metal coming from the door. Im going to go find an awening somewhere and try and locate these drains to check them.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

briano1234 said:


> The doors have pucker drains on the bottoms edges, if those aren't cleaned and cleared they cause water to back up and not drain out of the door.


Update. Just read your whole theead on water leaks. Most seem fine. Theres that drain plug on the bottom of the door....i pulled it.no water came out at all. I also couldnt locate an actual drain under the door. Only that stopper plug. Where is the drain located?


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> Update. Just read your whole theead on water leaks. Most seem fine. Theres that drain plug on the bottom of the door....i pulled it.no water came out at all. I also couldnt locate an actual drain under the door. Only that stopper plug. Where is the drain located?


It is on the lip of the Door seam where the outside skin is welded to the inner skin.

To the left of the screw driver on the edge....


If you also notice, behind the little squares there is a water barrier there as well.

Here is the same picture highlighted.


If you are looking what happens is that rain goes over your crusty old hardened outer scrapers. as it runs off the window. It then drips on the various metal things and spray drips on the "VAPOR" barrier. If that barrier is missing or broken, then it splashed on the back side of the door card.
Here you can see my car wasn't immune to it either.



Quick hint. Go to the dollar store and get some plastic shower curtains to make new ones.
Spray the door itself with 3m 77 glue. Then touch the shower curtain to the glue and it will prevent this from happening. you can cut the holes that you need for the door lock rod then use duct tape to seal it smaller. On a Beetle that I just did I used duct tape on the inside and the outside of the slot I cut for the door lock rod.

Another trick it to unglue and unstaple your old masonite and byt new then cut to fit with sabre saw... You can also let your old stuff dry, then paint it with exterior grade
or water resistant shellac or Urethane a couple of coats to allow it to soak in, then a final coat to cover. Some of the newer stuff I have been using has a really quick tack time and no more than a hour to dry.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

What an awesome bit of information!ation thanks a lot!!!!! First thing in the AM I'm off to the dollar store!!! Can't wait to get this done. Then I guess in the near future I will be replacing those outter scrapers and making it even more waterproof I suppose this would prevent 99% of the water from getting in the door. 

Trunk seems surprisingly dry. Only other leak is an infrequent single "droplet" of water on my knee from the corner. Pass. Side is fine. Also the amount of water off the top when window is open is insane. I need gutters badly. That's when I went looking for your DIYs and they were gone. Doh! I know their on that other website too so I'm going to try and look there.


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Derekxj said:


> What an awesome bit of information!ation thanks a lot!!!!! First thing in the AM I'm off to the dollar store!!! Can't wait to get this done. Then I guess in the near future I will be replacing those outter scrapers and making it even more waterproof I suppose this would prevent 99% of the water from getting in the door.
> 
> Trunk seems surprisingly dry. Only other leak is an infrequent single "droplet" of water on my knee from the corner. Pass. Side is fine. Also the amount of water off the top when window is open is insane. I need gutters badly. That's when I went looking for your DIYs and they were gone. Doh! I know their on that other website too so I'm going to try and look there.


Gutters won't help. The windows geometry is that after about 1/4 if a inch of lowered glass ok may be up to 1/2 the window then isn't even with the top, it is inside. So by nature the water will come inside.

Tops with the beading tend to stop a lot of that as the water is directed to the front or rear and not allowed to spill over the edge.

Top leaks at the corner are covered in where is my car leaking. Usually it is a fitment issue between the top and the door corner. There are fixes in that as well.


Where is my top leaking.
http://www.toplessrabbit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2655

Another drippy knee fix.
http://www.toplessrabbit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2737

"A" pillar gap repair.
http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/showthread.php/32474-Cabriolet-quot-A-quot-pillar-repair-the-Gap.


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## pablosvet (Feb 23, 2017)

*Similar exciter cable problem*

Hi Thread,
I have problem with alternator and battery on cabrio 1991. With a friend we have tested voltage and it is below 12 meaning battery is not charging. We have tested different sites in the car and we were able to reactivate alterantro by bypassing the blue excitor cable. We have eeven made direct conection with battery but it completely drained battery in 4 hours.. meaning that a switch is needed.
Does anyone have any experience with similar problems? Maybe something that needs to be changed in the fuse box or the computer? or fuse box shouuld be completely replaced ? Cause we have tracked the cable and seems to be intact.. And all this started after I jumped a BMW X3 with my cabriolet..
Thanks in advance!


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## briano1234 (Feb 20, 2004)

Take your Alternator to a Car Parts place that checks them. Verify that it is putting out proper amperage, Drive it there and have them load test it.

Now your Alternator requires an Exciter Voltage to Start the Field Coils to Produce Voltage. This is the Blue wire on Bosch alternators or the (IIRC black) wire on Motorola alternators.

It originates at the battery, runs to the Cluster (the Battery Light), through a diode, and back to the alternator.

You can google Exciter Circuits.

It is best to "FIX IT" than re-wire it.

If your Exciter Bulb is out in the DASH then the alternator will never start or charge your battery....
If the Battery is fully charged, then about 4 hours is what you get to run with unless you have your Lights and A/C running....
Your Fan will draw it down as well.

Normal operation is that as you start your car the Alternator or Battery light is on as you start your car. Then will go out once the Alternator field is built and the alternator is charging. If you never see your Battery light come on at key in, then Check the Cluster for 12V in to the Lamp circuit 

that is t14/pin2 on your Cluster...... BLUE WIRE. 

Disconnect the Blue wire from the Alternator and measure it to ground with a DVOM with your meter with the key on (not running) there should be between 8v and 12V on it. If not, then you have an issue between your Battery to the cluster or the Cluster to the Blue wire on your alternator.


If you place 12V on the Blue wire of your Alternator, via a lamp, then the alternator should go from Battery voltage to 13.5-13.75 V or greater.

Normally I would say REPLACE your BATTERY to Frame and Frame to engine Ground.... Which is a good thing.

Some Alternators need to have the speed of idle boosted to start charging, there is a underspeed sense in the Regulator. (blipping the throttle on start is normal to 1000 rpm). If the Light doesn't go out, on increased RPM then you need to have your Alternator tested....

Trying to jump and check this and that isn't a bad thing, but knowing that your Alternator is good is the best way to start.
Knowing if your Battery or Charge light works with key in but not started is another, No light bad exciter circuit to the Pin on the Cluster or Burned out Alternator bulb.

I have how do I do thats on tearing the cluster apart, and things......
I even have "Another Useless Ground thread" probably linked on the signature line.

Having a DVOM, is paramount for your future endeavors on the cabby as well as a 12V test light as well as jumper wires with gator clips.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

I know this is probably a no-no doing this, but im desperate to move this car...... It's for-sale, and id like it gone ASAP. 
i've gone photos in the ad reflecting how the car was finished off. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?8581889-FS-1991-VW-Cabriolet-Etienne-Aigner-Edition-(Blue)


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## BoostedOne (Mar 30, 2003)

GAH! Damnit!
After all the work and posts, I been waiting to see the finale post of a completed car and happiness!!

Sad it didnt work out that way.


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## Derekxj (Jul 3, 2013)

BoostedOne said:


> GAH! Damnit!
> After all the work and posts, I been waiting to see the finale post of a completed car and happiness!!
> 
> Sad it didnt work out that way.


Thanks man - Yeah, it was a real crap ending to the whole thing. The car turned out great, ran and drive fantastic. Got compliments and looks everywhere i went which was a nice thanks for all my hard work and effort, blood sweat and tears but yeah. Once everything went to $hit i unexpectedly and unwantingly got the car back. Threw it in storage and haven't seen it since. In-fact, i pay the storage, insurance & regi on it ever since! Im in the market for an old ford truck and i've found a few but without selling this i lack the funds to pursue my next endeavor. Ive had no bites so far, and if i dont get any soon i'll have to go park it somewhere and hope it gets more attention that way.


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