# GX info???



## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Anyone have specific info on the GX engines? I searched and found some charts and what not but the GX info is always vague at best.

I beleive it to be a low compression 1.8 making 85 hp.

Where does the low compression come from? Pistons? Head gasket? Cylinder head?

I have an ABA bottom about to go in but am wondering about compression values.

In theory I would like to end up between 10:1 and 11:1 

I will be running a Brazillian hydro 268 cam.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

The compression should be determined by the pistons as I think the heads are all pretty much the same as far as combustion chambers go.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> Anyone have specific info on the GX engines?
> 
> Where does the low compression come from? Pistons? Head gasket? Cylinder head?
> 
> ...


Just what "specifics" are you trying to find? As stated, yes the compression is set by using different pistons for the most part. Using the 2.0L ABA bottom end will put you in the 10:1 range, maybe 10.1:1, but why are you so concerned about having the engine produce between 10 and 11 to one compression? I can understand people building engines for boost wanting to limit their compression. You have other things to think about rather then reaching for a compression ratio goal. What about your small valves in the GX head? Why worrie about the squeeze of the engine if it is limited in flow? GX engines didn't have the greatest exhaust systems, working a little there will help. Stay away form the "Bigger is better" trap in automotive circles, like bigger tires are better and bigger camshafts are better and so on. More compression does not directly equal more power.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

WaterWheels said:


> Just what "specifics" are you trying to find? As stated, yes the compression is set by using different pistons for the most part. Using the 2.0L ABA bottom end will put you in the 10:1 range, maybe 10.1:1, but why are you so concerned about having the engine produce between 10 and 11 to one compression? I can understand people building engines for boost wanting to limit their compression. You have other things to think about rather then reaching for a compression ratio goal. What about your small valves in the GX head? Why worrie about the squeeze of the engine if it is limited in flow? GX engines didn't have the greatest exhaust systems, working a little there will help. Stay away form the "Bigger is better" trap in automotive circles, like bigger tires are better and bigger camshafts are better and so on. More compression does not directly equal more power.


Here is a better why to ask. Why do you assume I know nothing about vws or engine basics?

I have simply never seen a GX engine before so was looking for further info.

I am "so concerend" about compression #s because they are important when building an engine.

In a round about way you answered some of my questions though. so thank you.

So in short GX is a small valve hydro head with low compression pistons.

I wasnt sure If these scored some left over goodies from the 84 gti. VW has been known to use left overs in first production run stuff.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

ps2375 said:


> The compression should be determined by the pistons as I think the heads are all pretty much the same as far as combustion chambers go.


Thanks.


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## erty67 (Feb 23, 2010)

The difference is in the pistons. If you look at the GX pistons vs. say a RD motor, they're a bit different. I will also agree with WaterWheels' entire statement


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## erty67 (Feb 23, 2010)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> So in short GX is a small valve hydro head with low compression pistons.


exactly


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

You know as they say you should not ask the question if you don't want to here the answer. In this case I have a feeling the answer will either be washed over, dismissed and forgotten or some feable attempt to show just how wrong I am will be made. In either case the answer still stands to the following question.


skateboards and mk2s said:


> Here is a better why to ask. Why do you assume I know nothing about vws or engine basics?


Because of the questions you ask, how you ask them and because, now, how you respond.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

I asked for specifics on a not very common VW engine. 

Not really sure how that makes it sound like I am a silly kid with no clue?

I apprectiate the help. Not trying to fight or argue with anyone.


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## WaterWheels (Aug 14, 2005)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> I asked for specifics on a not very common VW engine.


That I have to say is exactly my point, if you can call it that. The GX engine, going out on a small limb here, is maybe one of the most “common” engines produced during that era. And there you go again with that word/question, “specifics”. Ask what you need information on and not some lame thing like wanting specifics. If I had told you the length, weight, metal composition and bore spacing of the engine you would have responded that that was not what you were looking for, right? People have not yet developed to the point of being able to read minds over the Internet. Provide more detailed questions and ya get better answers.



skateboards and mk2s said:


> Not really sure how that makes it sound like I am a silly kid with no clue?


Never said you were a kid or silly either. I do have to admit that a log-on name of skateboards . . does bring up visions from time to time but nothing I would lean on in any response. And again “no clue” is rather vague and is not a fair term to use if trying to boost an argument (don’t mean fight but discussion really) as it can later be defined as one wishes when need be.



skateboards and mk2s said:


> Not trying to fight or argue with anyone.


That’s good because I don’t fight or argue on the Internet, it serves no purpose. I call things as I see them and tell it as it is or I think it to be. If wrong then fine, my mistake (bad I was told is the “in” term) and can accept being wrong. But this is not the place to lay out my philosophy and morals so I won’t. So what other information are you needing?


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

I thought i was being specific enough when the thread only really spoke about compression.

I will admit it was a pretty vague question but don't really feel that it deserved the newbie lecture on engine performance.

Whatever no harm no foul. I will get tougher skin when I am in the 8V forum.

I was looking for any specific info related to that specific engine code that would be related to the ABA swap.

But I have it now. THANKS!


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I have the GX engine too with the CIS-Lambda and I have the same ?'s about compression. I consumed all the charts that Bentley has to offer and here's what I came up with...(minus Diesel, who cares about those???) 
Engine Code_______GX--------MZ--------HT--------RD--------RV--------PF--------PL--------9A 
Cylnders__________4----------4----------4----------4----------4---------4----------4---------4 
Bore mm__________81--------81---------81--------81--------81---------81-------81--------82.5 
Stroke mm________86.4------86.4-------86.4------86.4------86.4------86.4------86.4------92.8 
Displacement cc____1781------1781------1781-----1781------1781-----1781-----1781-----1984 
Compression Ratio__8.5:1-----8.5:1------10:1------10:1------10:1------10:1-----10:1-----10:1 
[email protected] +/[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@5.8 
[email protected] +/[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@[email protected]@4.4 
FI System________CIS/CIS(E)--CIS-------CIS(E)--CIS(E)---DIGI1/2--DIGI 2 --CIS(E)--CIS(Motr) 
Application Notes___Economy-Canada--GTI/GLI85-GTI/GLI-----------------------16V------16V 2.0L 
IN V Head Dia mm__38---------38---------40--------40--------40--------40---------32--------32 
EX V Head Dia mm__33---------33---------33--------33--------33--------33--------28--------28 
V Stem Dia mm+/-__8----------8-----------8----------8---------8---------8----------7---------7 
IN V Length mm____91---------91----------91--------91--------91-------91--------95.5------95.5 
EX V Length mm____90.8------90.8--------90.8------90.8-----90.8------90.8------98.2------98.2 
:sly::banghead: 

........ WOW I'm bored:laugh:.... So it makes sense the jumps in HP due to Valve size changes, number of valves and the 9A big block, and other fluctuations due to camshafts and Fuel systems and exhausts etc. but what I don't get is the change from 8.5-1 CR to 10.0 with the same size pistons. Maybe they were just shorter or dished differently...


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

BGosnell said:


> I have the GX engine too with the CIS-Lambda and I have the same ?'s about compression. I consumed all the charts that Bentley has to offer and here's what I came up with...(minus Diesel, who cares about those???)
> Engine Code_______GX--------MZ--------HT--------RD--------RV--------PF--------PL--------9A
> Cylnders__________4----------4----------4----------4----------4---------4----------4---------4
> Bore mm__________81--------81---------81--------81--------81---------81-------81--------82.5
> ...


 Thanks I had found most of that info as well. As far as I can tell it is just piston shape and the smaller valve that is responsable for the lowering of the compression. I have found a few threads that spoke of some US production heads being a little taller but not enough to really change to much and nothing that anyone could prove was intentional. All within a rather broad factory spec. 

I was hoping the smaller valves alone were responsable for the lower compression as a head change is way easier than a whole long block swap. 

Thanks for the info!!


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm pretty sure valve size doesn't have anything to do with compression, just flow. You don't cange your compression ratio when you open the TB. I think its all cylinder area (including head) and piston movement. It's gotta be cylinder shape or length or head heighth like you were sayin'. It'd be cool if someone who knew more on this subject chimed in.................:sly:


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

The only real difference between all those engines to get the diff CR is the piston. The heads (no matter the valve size) have the same size combustion chamber. Except for the 9A and PL, as those are the 16V motors, and shouldn't even be on that chart, for comparing 8V motors. 

I'll say it again, the piston is what VW uses to change the CR on these motors, as the heads are virtually identical, for determining CR. 

And the GX was not a "rare" motor, it was in Golf's and Jetta's from 84-87, and my EKTA has it listed as a 90hp motor. Just not as desirable as an RV, RD or PF coded motor.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

My bad on the "rare" comment. I guess what I meant was it is hard to find good detailed info about a US built golf with the GX. As far as I can tell it was the only golf bodied car with an 8v that got CIS E. If you have more info I am still interested for nothing more than learning sake. I have had three different shops tell me three different things about the setup so there is obviously a fair amount of confussion out there. 

My thought on valve size was that a larger area of the combustion chamber is being used up by the larger valve thus creating a "very slightly" higher compression. We are talking about overall combustion chamber volume correct? If removing even 1/1000th of an inch off the bottom of the head can make a change my thought is that the increased material space of the larger valve would equate to a simaller reduction in chamber size. Hence a very slight increase in compression.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

The CR change would be very small, calculate-able,but probably not notice-able.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

ps2375 said:


> The CR change would be very small, calculate-able,but probably not notice-able.


 Thanks! 

Were there any other changes in the GX block? Different crank shape or material used? pick up or pump? baffles?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Nope, I think that is all stand fare for VW. I've got one in my Rabbit w/ a solid lifter head on top of it, just need a reason to justify rebuilding the RV coded block I have to get the higher CR and added power. Mine has around 70K on it's last rebuild. You could just get some pistons from ne of the other motors w/ the higher CR and drop them in, and wa-la, you have essentially an RV, PF or RD short block.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

And anybody that has worked on VW's for any amount of time, knows that VW mixed and matched fuel/spark systems w/ various block and head combos to meet this and that government's various requirements. A good example is from the same time period, some had carbs, but most had CIS, some had CAT's and some didn't. They did what they needed to do, and some of it made little sense other than financial.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> As far as I can tell it was the only golf bodied car with an 8v that got CIS E.


 Most GX motors are run with CIS Lambda. However, it seemed common to find CIS-E (without knock sensing unit) in use on 85 model year Jetta/Golfs. 

The HT/RD 8v motors also use CIS-E, alongside a separate knock sensing unit.


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I heard that they made the GX and MZ Canada motors with such low (8.5:1) CR's to be economy models. I guess less compression equals better gas mileage?


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

BGosnell said:


> I heard that they made the GX and MZ Canada motors with such low (8.5:1) CR's to be economy models. I guess less compression equals better gas mileage?


 No, lower octane required, thus cheaper fill ups. A higher CR has the potential for better efficiency, thus better economy, but the tradeoff is potentially high fuel costs.


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

Good thing I always fill up my GX with premium. :facepalm:


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Yup, keep those oil company employees off of welfare. I have been trying to use corn-free fuel, as I should expect slightly better mpg's, but there is no reason to pay extra for the higher octane.:beer:


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Thanks guys. All awesome info. Now the dilemma I am having is. 

I have the GX in the car running fine and a complete 96 2.0 gti in the garage that needs a head gasket. 

If anyone feels like throwing in their preference and experiences it would be great. 

A. Change pistons and get larger valve head? 
B. ABA bottom with larger valve head and stay CIS? 
C. Swap the whole ABA over? 

Its a daily that goes to the track once a month or so. 

I have been into VWs and racing for years but always on the suspension end of things. 
This is my first "built" I use the term loosly  engine. So my apologies if I am asking a bunch of dumb questions. 

It seems that all I hear around the vortex is ABA stuff but over at clubgti.com many of the purpose built cars are still building 1.8s 

My last autocrosser was an 87 golf gt. with TT header, TT cat back, 268 cam, Eurospec cam gear. Cam timing was retarded 3 degrees if I remember right. The car was a blast and won two seasons in a row until they put the Suzuki swifts and Datson 510s in the class.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> Thanks guys. All awesome info. Now the dilemma I am having is.
> 
> I have the GX in the car running fine and a complete 96 2.0 gti in the garage that needs a head gasket.
> 
> ...


 aba bottom end, gti head, drop it in the car.. 

you have alot of good parts to bolt on it. 

GTIs and GLIs had heads with bigger valves.. i, personally, have not noticed a big difference between a small valve, and large valve head. 

my 85 GTI had a HT engine in it (10:1, big valve head, CIS-e) and my 86 Golf is FASTER than it was.. yes.. an engine with smaller valves, and less compression.. 

the 85 had HT w/ a neuspeed 268*, a twin tube downpipe and mani, a modified intake system, and K&N pannel filter as well as a free flowing exhaust.. 

my 86 has a GX with the same neuspeed 268*, a real header, the same intake system, and a catless exhaust with a flowmaster 40 series at the end.. 

the 86 gets better economy, and has better power as well..


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I too dream of doing a 2.0 16v swap for my GX, I'm glad to hear you actually plan on making it happen. 

My plan was to take the 9a engine(keepin' it mk2) and throw in as big a pistons as practical and run it at around 10.5 or 11cr , port and polish and regrind the valve seats for mid to fully oversized TT valves, 276 cams with advanced cam timing for street use, TT race header with cat back Borla, HD engine mounts, upgraded intake mani and throttle body and a bunch of odds and ends to fine tune the oil pressure and operating temp. I plan on running mine on the CIS Lambda that my GX came with and possibly upgrading to a beefier fuel distributor/air flow meter setup. 

My main concerns would be keepin it knock free on premium keepin' a smooth idle. I assume advancing the cam timing would help with that but now I'm wondering if that's more of a spark timing fix? 

I'm not too sure about the ABA's, weren't those the 2.0 16v's out of the mk3's? I know there's tons of write-ups on the how, what, why and when's of the ABA swap though. 

You gonna turn this into a build thread? I'd love to follow your progress.opcorn:


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

Hmmmmm I'm not too sure it sounds like you had much less exhaust restriction on the 86, you don't honestly believe that 8.5:1 GX with small valves actually has more potential than the 10:1 HT with bigger valves.... do you???:screwy: 

I have a question though what did you do to your intake? I've heard a lot of ideas about opening up the airflow on CIS mk2 intakes, mostly bad though.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

BGosnell said:


> Hmmmmm I'm not too sure it sounds like you had much less exhaust restriction on the 86, you don't honestly believe that 8.5:1 GX with small valves actually has more potential than the 10:1 HT with bigger valves.... do you???:screwy:
> 
> I have a question though what did you do to your intake? I've heard a lot of ideas about opening up the airflow on CIS mk2 intakes, mostly bad though.


 i cut a hole in the front of the air box, and installed a duct to pull air from under the passenger side headlight.. it is not swiss cheesed. i left the original intake duct there as well. removed the warm air bypass, and installed a K&N panel filter.. 

and no, im not saying the GX has MORE POTENTIAL than the HT.. i NEVER said that.. im just saying that in stock, to slightly modified form, i cant tell the difference between engines.. ive dealt with alot of RDs, HTs, GXs, and a few other CIS/CIS-e engines, and all my experiences have been the same.. 

when the cars were stock, my GTI would smoke my Golf, but once they had mods, it was the low compression engine that did better. but only by a TINY bit. im saying that unless you are gonna build the holy hell out of your engine, that i dont think it really matters what head you use. i never noticed any BIG GAINS to be had from the head with bigger valves.. honestly, i think my golf has more TORQUE than the GTI did tho.. 

i figured that 10:1 compression, CIS-e, and knock sensing ignition would make more power hands down.. but it was ALOT closer than i thought it would be..


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

the close ratio paired with the HT sure is fun though. I miss that the most about my old 85 gli


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

ziddey said:


> the close ratio paired with the HT sure is fun though. I miss that the most about my old 85 gli


 i like the wider spread of gearing with the ACN tho.. 

my GTI had a 9A in it original, but i bought it with no reverse.. 

i swapped in an ACN trans, and i LOVED it.. 

my 86 Golf came with an ACN original.. 

my GTI never ran as good as my Golf tho.. it would lose prime if you parked on a hill. 

was also very picky about fuel. it DID NOT like regular unleaded.. 

ive got my Golf timed @ about 20*, and it still runs great on regular.. my GTI required premium with the timing set at 15*


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

That's interesting. So many variables it's hard to say. I like your air box idea. Did you notice any big differences? Also isn't there an issue with operating temp? That's what I've heard about blocking off the warm air. Do you have any pics?


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Wow great stuff guys thanks. 
Air intake right now is stock with the front fender side cut out and a K&N I also took the tube from the exhaust and ran it down the fender where the factory tube was. 

I am having the priming issue on hills as well as some bogging on hot startups. Once it clears out it feels ok. 

It also feels like it pulls the hardest at 3/4 throttle. The cable is set right. 

On your GX are you still running all the stock CIS E stuff? Vacuum advance? 

Right now it feels great until 4200 rpm and then it is just done. 

The exhaust helped and I know that the stock manifold and downpipe are the worst 
so maybe I will try the header before I do which ever swap I decide on.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

Go to the cis section and check the stickies. Longitudinal wrote a great write up on tuning / power tuning cis-e. 

Cut the Bosch o2 sensor harness for euro cars if this era. Perfect for building a dpr test harness. 

You could also upgrade to the later cis-e ecu and add a wot switch and wires. I don't know if it's the same ecu or not. Cis-e with knock sensing had a wot switch for full throttle enrichment in open loop.


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I don't know how soon you plan on doin' the swap but I believe the headers for the 1.8 are a different size than then the ABA. That would suck to buy a nice header and then have to replace it months later. Super expensive too. 
What do you mean on the intake? You took the warm air cloth hose and routed it over by the fender? I think the only way to make it truly cold air is to block off the warm air intake all together cuz the flapper in the air box opens and regulates air temp based on expansion and contraction. That might be bad cuz the hole for the fender air is bigger than the warm air one and the flapper might never open cuz of the cooler air being drawn in. I wish there was a way to watch what that flapper was doin'. I always wonder how well mine actually works. It's about 25 years old. 
I have CIS Lambda and I run all stock except a K&N filter and some Autotech wires. My first big upgrade will be a new camshaft. I'm thinkin' I'll run the TT266 with lightweight adjustable cam and intermediate gears. I'd like to do a full on exhaust as soon as possible, mines hurtin', but they're so expensive.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

no diff between a 1.8L 8V and a 2L 8V header other than for which chassis it is for. The ports on the head are the same size and same spacing.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Techtonics said that all the headers will work. Each different header is just maximized for perfect fit. 

I might get to the swap pretty soon so I probably wont do much in the meantime it would just be a good test I guess. 

Im really thinking about the whole ABA swap. Its just nice and clean and I understand that engine a little better. It also seems that people are getting much better gas millage out of their ABA swaps. 

I love the way a CIS car sounds though. I know its silly but a CIS car with a bigger cam just lumps and bumps in the coolest of ways.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

BGosnell said:


> What do you mean on the intake? You took the warm air cloth hose and routed it over by the fender? I think the only way to make it truly cold air is to block off the warm air intake all together cuz the flapper in the air box opens and regulates air temp based on expansion and contraction.
> 
> 
> I have CIS Lambda and I run all stock except a K&N filter and some Autotech wires. My first big upgrade will be a new camshaft. I'm thinkin' I'll run the TT266 with lightweight adjustable cam and intermediate gears. I'd like to do a full on exhaust as soon as possible, mines hurtin', but they're so expensive.


 Sorry I meant I took it off the back of the air box and reused it at the front of the box. It just dips down the fender and ends in the front of the airbox. 

Any of you guys using the stock stuff ever set up a "stock" and "race" style set up with ignition timing? 

Could the distributer position be marked for a quick adjust?


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

Hmmmm I guess I thought since the 2L's are bigger that the exhaust ports would be higher making the headers drop lower. 

what would you do retard the ignition timing for better high end? 

Seems like you could use some sort of colored marker to draw match-up lines on the cap and distributor.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

You guys don't realize that the dizzy on an ABA has little to no effect on IGN timing. The hall sender is there only as a cam position sender to tell the ECU when motor is at TDC for #1 cylinder(for sequential fuel injection). The crank position sender on the crank is how the ECU determines timing. The dizzy is only there to distribute the spark to the correct plug, you can even unplug the dizzy's hall sender and the car will run, in a default mode for injection. You can rotate the dizzy all you want and it won't have any effect on the IGN timing, try it some time. If you do turn it far enough to kill the motor, it is because the spark never made it to the plug not because the timing was changed.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

For what it's worth, there's two locating pins on the distributor for the holddown IIRC. So you have very limited distributor movement. If you're going out of range, you don't have it installed right


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I have seen some w/o the pins, not sure if they were removed or is some years had them and some didn't.


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I was thinking CIS. ABA must be digifant. I have enough to learn with the simple CIS-L without diving into anything else.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

ps2375 said:


> You guys don't realize that the dizzy on an ABA has little to no effect on IGN timing. The hall sender is there only as a cam position sender to tell the ECU when motor is at TDC for #1 cylinder(for sequential fuel injection). The crank position sender on the crank is how the ECU determines timing. The dizzy is only there to distribute the spark to the correct plug, you can even unplug the dizzy's hall sender and the car will run, in a default mode for injection. You can rotate the dizzy all you want and it won't have any effect on the IGN timing, try it some time. If you do turn it far enough to kill the motor, it is because the spark never made it to the plug not because the timing was changed.


 I was talking about CIS. The milage on the ABA I would think would be good enough that you could leave it "tuned" all the time or if you were a glutten for punishment you could swap chips at the track. On a CIS car though I was wondering if there would be a benefit to having less advance for daily use seeing as it would be an easy adjustment at the track. 

I think in the end, price is going to decide on me running the whole ABA swap. Header, chip and head gasket is going to be the cheapest way to a solid output 8V for me. God I hate wiring though


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

If the tune is done correctly on an NA motor, there should be no reason to have to swap chips.


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

Yeah on the GX it seems like your biggest, easiest improvements will be exhaust, cam and valves. If you pop off the head to do some valve work (they're so small on the GX) maybe you could shave the bottom to up your CR. Then again that'd probably cause interference issues. I was hammering on the beast last night and I was impressed with how she pulls when you actually let the rpm's climb before you shift. It felt pretty hairy close to 5k but it pulls real nice at 3 up. I just gotta work on my comfort level.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

ps2375 said:


> If the tune is done correctly on an NA motor, there should be no reason to have to swap chips.


 This is exactly why I think for a daily / track car the aba is perfect.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Well, if you go stand-alone, that can and will apply to almost any motor. As long as you don't get too wild with cam(s) and CR, a well built motor can do any duty you like. My Rabbit w/ a GX block and a lg valve solid lifter head has 65K+ miles on it as a daily driven work car and has towed the race car on the tow dolly many times to events and even to the hillclimb up the local mountain. 

The motor is really no different than any other 1.8L motor, other than it has a lower CR and the valves are smaller(on the stock head). Put either the solid or hydro lifter heads on it w/ the larger valves, and you will gain some hp, how much? I have no idea, but it is an improvement. No different than back in the day when I bought the modded 1.8L GTI head from TT to fit my 1.7L block. That motor loved to rev!


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

After a year with this car I could never go stand alone on my daily. 










God that system sucked! David and I would work so hard on set up. Get the car just right and then like clock work we would spend the rest of the weekend chasing gremlins in the stand alone. Granted this was ten years ago and I'm sure it has come a long way. 

I really think I am set on the ABA swap. In my head I have said that 125 hp will be good enough and it seems that the ABA will get to that point without alot of hassle. 

If I want more down the line I can build a nice block and do a ported head, bigger cam. 

What do guys do with mk2s with 400hp?? Seems like you could never get the chasis to take advantage of even half of that.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Well, I don't know what system you were running, but I have not had one problem with my MS. And I feel very confident having to travel in my car for work, sometimes doing 800-1000 miles in 2 days.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

If I can remeber right I think it was MoTec. Does Mega squirt run on all the factory sensors?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> Wow great stuff guys thanks.
> Air intake right now is stock with the front fender side cut out and a K&N I also took the tube from the exhaust and ran it down the fender where the factory tube was.
> 
> I am having the priming issue on hills as well as some bogging on hot startups. Once it clears out it feels ok.
> ...


 ive got Lambda now, its all stock.. my 86 started out life as a Golf.. 

the wrecked 85 tho, it does exactly as you describe.. the pump was always a bit noisey, and it never had real good power at WOT.. im thinking my fuel pump was getting weak. my car also made the best power under WOT, with it still in closed loop mode.. 

if parked on a hill, i would have to cycle my key on and off about 8 times to re-prime it.. 

the 85 had CIS-E, and it was all stock. no vacuum advance on that one. knock box.. i dont know what had been done to it in the 400k miles it traveled tho.. still think it had a weak fuel pump.. 

i noticed the toilet bowl manifold is not the restrictive part.. the 1.5" downpipe is.. 

my GTI benefited from a 4->2->1 manifold/downpipe, but not as much as my Golf benefited from a 4->1 header..


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

btw, dont try and run a mk3 header on a mk2.. it will hit the rack n pinion..


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> If I can remeber right I think it was MoTec. Does Mega squirt run on all the factory sensors?


 It can, but I use GM sensors, as it is has those curves loaded as default. And the only sensors needed to add are coolant and intake air temp.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Glegor said:


> btw, dont try and run a mk3 header on a mk2.. it will hit the rack n pinion..


 This is on the the 1.8 correct? If I go to either the ABA or 2.0 tall block then the MK3 header works correct?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> This is on the the 1.8 correct? If I go to either the ABA or 2.0 tall block then the MK3 header works correct?


 yes, dont try and run a tall block header on a non-tall block engine.. 

ive got an ABA header on my 1.8.. 

i had to build some 1/4" aluminum spacers to go on top of the motor mount isolators to keep the header from hitting the rack.. 

yes, i LIFTED the back of my engine to clear the rack n pinion..


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Glegor said:


> yes, dont try and run a tall block header on a non-tall block engine..
> 
> ive got an ABA header on my 1.8..
> 
> ...


 Cudos to you for the dedication


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> Cudos to you for the dedication


 its amazing what you will do when you have parts that *ALMOST* fits.. 

im a broke college kid with access to a full machine shop basically.. 

when somethin dont fit, i make it fit, or make a new one..


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Looks like my ABA is going to need more work than I initially thought. 

Im going to drop the cam in the 1.8 and found a cheap used header (that fits)  

That will have to do until I can build the ABA up nice. 

Do you have a preffered spark plug for the GX?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> Looks like my ABA is going to need more work than I initially thought.
> 
> Im going to drop the cam in the 1.8 and found a cheap used header (that fits)
> 
> ...


i run spark plugs out of a GTI engine (HT code)

just order plugs for an 85(6,7,8) GTI.. they should have 3 electrodes, rather than 1..

ill go look at my car, get you a number off the plugs im running.. they work good tho, i know this.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

NGK BP6ETs are whats in my car..

they are stock to an 85 GTI, because thats what they came out of..

wrecked my 85, had just re-freshed the ignition system, so what i could save, i did.

the wires, plugs, and cap were all the same. ROTOR was not.. knock sensing ign systems use 10mm shafts, like WW suggested..

also running ~20* advanced ignition timing.. 6* just ISNT ENOUGH for these engines.. every one ive driven/worked on has BENEFITED from advancing the timing..

also, my cam is retarded ~3.5* as well..

the adjustible cam gear is NICE, makes it so you can shift your power around!


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> This is on the the 1.8 correct? If I go to either the ABA or 2.0 tall block then the MK3 header works correct?


lol, just realised this..

ABA, and 2.0 tall block are one in the same..

i dont know of another tall block 2.0 in the united states

besides maybe the mk4 motors.. dunno much about those tho..


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I'm rockin' the Bosch w7dsr's, single electrode silvers. Silver is the best conducting metal and they're pretty much straight out of the Bentley's. The book actually says WR7DS's but the only difference I can fin is that the dsr's run a little colder for high performance apps. There might be an issue with early fouling on daily drivers but I figure as long as you hammer on it every now and then you're good to go.

I was playing with timing the other day and figured since I run premium I'd be best served to advance all the way to knock, back it off a bit an call it good, but assumed that my timing light was defective(cheapo harbor freight special) because I would get it all the way to 20 or 30 degrees advanced and it wouldn't knock it would just go from high rpm's to progressively lower ones. And that seems like a TON of advance. Plus at around 6 extra degrees it would make this half squeal half grind sound that might be knocking but I can't be sure.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

BGosnell said:


> I'm rockin' the Bosch w7dsr's, single electrode silvers. Silver is the best conducting metal and they're pretty much straight out of the Bentley's. The book actually says WR7DS's but the only difference I can fin is that the dsr's run a little colder for high performance apps. There might be an issue with early fouling on daily drivers but I figure as long as you hammer on it every now and then you're good to go.
> 
> I was playing with timing the other day and figured since I run premium I'd be best served to advance all the way to knock, back it off a bit an call it good, but assumed that my timing light was defective(cheapo harbor freight special) because I would get it all the way to 20 or 30 degrees advanced and it wouldn't knock it would just go from high rpm's to progressively lower ones. And that seems like a TON of advance. Plus at around 6 extra degrees it would make this half squeal half grind sound that might be knocking but I can't be sure.


any NGK plug with R in the number, has a RESISTOR built into the plug..

VWs use solid core wires, with resistors on the end..

there is no reason to use 2 resistors in the ignition system..


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Glegor said:


> i run spark plugs out of a GTI engine (HT code)
> 
> just order plugs for an 85(6,7,8) GTI.. they should have 3 electrodes, rather than 1..
> 
> ill go look at my car, get you a number off the plugs im running.. they work good tho, i know this.


Thanks very much.


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## skateboards and mk2s (May 17, 2006)

Glegor said:


> NGK BP6ETs are whats in my car..
> 
> they are stock to an 85 GTI, because thats what they came out of..
> 
> ...


Are you using any sort of WOT switch on the golf? Or everything is still stock?


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

skateboards and mk2s said:


> Are you using any sort of WOT switch on the golf? Or everything is still stock?


everything, injection wise, is 100% stock..

ive thought about adding a WOT switch, but it just doesnt seem like the gains would be worth the work involved..


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

I was talkin' about Bosch's not NGK:screwy:. The Bosch W7dtc and wr7ds are what bentley recommends for the GX.


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

BGosnell said:


> I was talkin' about Bosch's not NGK:screwy:. The Bosch W7dtc and wr7ds are what bentley recommends for the GX.


lol, just noticed that..

i like the GTI plugs i have in there now..


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## Jon85 (Aug 17, 2012)

BGosnell said:


> I'm pretty sure valve size doesn't have anything to do with compression, just flow. You don't cange your compression ratio when you open the TB. I think its all cylinder area (including head) and piston movement. It's gotta be cylinder shape or length or head heighth like you were sayin'. It'd be cool if someone who knew more on this subject chimed in.................:sly:


your right, its the volume size of the cylinder with the piston at the top of its stroke that creates the CR. if you want to increase the CR shave the matting surface of the cylinder head or change the stoke of the piston. just saying


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## BGosnell (Jul 23, 2012)

Yeah that makes sense. If you had head chamber volume of 10 cc (random numbers) and stroked down to pull in 90 more that's 100 total for a cr of 10 to 1 whereas if you only pulled in 70 that's 80 total making a 8 to 1. shaving the head would lower the head chamber volume. shaving down the HCV to 8 cc for example would make a cr of 12.5-1 and 10-1, respectively. Thanks for helping me grasp that. Did you see the lightbulb go on? :laugh:

So you're telling me that if I worked the math right all I'd have to do is shave the head down and/or a thinner headgasket to open the gx to 10-1? Sounds too good to be true... wouldn't there be interference issues? especially if you run a cam with higher lifts. nothin higher than a 270 of course.

I was about to add that it seems there would be a trade off for cylinder fill cuz of less displacement but after thinkin about it it seems that any volume above the piston at TDC would actually hinder the pulling force of the intake stroke. 

I'm gettin' excited. This make me wanna run out, grab a GTI 8v head, shave it, port an polish it and throw it back on with a copper gasket and some ARP bolts.


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