# My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete



## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

Over the past few months Ive been collecting parts for this upgrade. I didnt want to get an aftermarket "kit" and pay through the roof for it. So instead, I found a few things on Ebay, and got some other parts from GAP, along with a few other items from some other vendors online for the pads and rotors, etc.
This week, the final peices came in, the bearing carriers. Pulled from a 2.0L GTI/Golf, I had them shipped for $85. Calipers I purchased on Ebay for another $75 iirc, and then the rotors and pads were about $100. I pieced things together, and got a decent kit, stripped the calipers and carriers down, and repainted them. All in all, Im happy with the way its turned out so far. Still need to do the passenger side tomorrow, but all is good thus far.
Initial clearance checking, chewed off a wheel weight in the process...
















Had about 1.5mm of clearance, if that. VERY tight fit. I found that the caliper carrier wasnt sitting flush on the bearing carrier, so I had to grind a ridge off so it would sit flush, and not rub on the rotor. Once flush, it fit perfectly. Tightened things up, and came up with the following:
























BTW, I didnt have to use different brake lines like some have. My '87 GTI had the same fittings as the original Audi lines, so everything bolted up, to say the least.
Enjoy
Steve


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## wicked2.0 (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*

Looks great! I am also in the process of doing the same upgrade. I have the Girling 60's, but need pads and rotors yet. Im trying to decide which ones to use. Did you go with oem rotors over cross drilled/slotted for any particular reason? Also, what pads did you use and where did you get them (a part number would be great if you have it). Let me know how they turn out and any tips/advice you can give me. Thanks


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

Thanks for the compliments...
I used a set of OEM Corrado Brembo rotors. There is no true benefit of slotted/drilled rotors compared to a solid disc. Yes, they will help whipe away water and pad dust, but they will also help with increasing pad wear. For me, I wanted a solid rotor so I had the most surface area for the pads to grip onto. The more the surface area, the more stopping power and cooling, and fade resistance.
I bought everything from http://www.getcoolparts.com. The rotors were $37, and the pads were $56. I ordered the wrong set of pads the first time, but they were cool about it and I returned the pads to them for the same price of the correct pads. I went with Axxiss/Ultimate pads front and rear. I read that these would be the best for combined street and autocross, which this car is going to be put through.
Point of reference for pads are"
'86 Audi 5000 Turbo Quattro '86-88
Part number: VWW077096








HTH,
Steve


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## clyde (Aug 31, 1999)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*

Nice job! What are those good-looking wheels and what's their diameter?


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## Kwabena (Mar 29, 2002)

Dang I thought those calipers looked good when I sold them...
Nice work as well!


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (I miss her!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *clyde* »_Nice job! What are those good-looking wheels and what's their diameter?

They are Mille Miglia HT3 in 15x7 w/ 37mm et. Wrapped with Dunlop Direzza DZ101 tires.

_Quote, originally posted by *I miss her!* »_Dang I thought those calipers looked good when I sold them...
Nice work as well!

Yeah, they looked good, but I went ahead and stripped them to bare metal and started fresh. Those things were a mess to strip with the wire wheel and brake cleaner, but turned out well.
Thanks for the compliments.


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## lbubbyj (Oct 22, 2004)

*Re: (Scuba2001)*

I saved a little $ by going with pads off a 90-94 audi cabriolet. These pads didn't have the wear sensor and were cheaper. I'm not 100% sure on the yeatr but I did save the Mintex part #.


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

Whats the cost difference in those pads compared to the Axxis ones I got?


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## Teutonic_Tuner (Oct 1, 2006)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*

What is the diameter of the rotors?


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

11" from a Corrado G60.


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## Seattle-G60 (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*

What master cylinder are you running or are you running ABS?
I put this combo into my corrado and it would not stop the car...it definitely would slow the car to a stop. But we all know that doesn't cut it on the track. I am just curious if you notice a longer peddle or less braking force and what size master your running?


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Seattle-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Seattle-G60* »_What master cylinder are you running or are you running ABS?

I have yet to make the car move more then through the driveway, due to other mechanical issues that Ive yet to resolve.
The car is an '87 GTI swapped 2.0L 16v with discs all around using a 22mm master cylinder. With my reading, Ive found the 22mm would work well with this setup. Car is abs-free, so Im willing to see how well the car stop once its up and running.
More details to follow once its drivable.


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## goodridge (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*

So you have used....
Corrado Discs? 280mm?
Girling 60 calipers (audi s2) and carriers?
Audi pads
and OE brake lines?
John


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (goodridge)*

Yep, youve about got right.
I bought new wheel bearings and such also, but have yet to swap them out.
Add Golf 2.0L steering knuckles to the list also.


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## goodridge (Nov 10, 2004)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*

So did the discs fit the pads ok? I've heard they don't fit quite right. Audi S2's ran 275mm discs and G60's run 280's. This didn't cause you any problems then? Have you taken it for a spin yet? 
John


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (goodridge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *goodridge* »_So did the discs fit the pads ok? I've heard they don't fit quite right. Audi S2's ran 275mm discs and G60's run 280's. This didn't cause you any problems then? Have you taken it for a spin yet?


_Quote, originally posted by *Scuba2001* »_I have yet to make the car move more then through the driveway, due to other mechanical issues that Ive yet to resolve.

That said, I did find that there is a 1-1.5mm of overhang on the pad-to-rotor clearance. The pads hang over towards the center hat area. IMO, its not that big of a deal. Your conventional rotor is about 3-4mm wider then the pad surface, but as long as you keep an eye on wear characterisitcs, its not going to be a huge issue with the rotor size.
HTH,
Steve


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (goodridge)*


_Quote, originally posted by *goodridge* »_So you have used....
Corrado Discs? 280mm? *Corrado G60 11" rotors*
Girling 60 calipers (audi s2) and carriers? *'86 Audi 5000 Quattro Turbo*
Audi pads *Yes, from the same car listed above*
and OE brake lines? *Yes, temporarily until I can get some stainless lines*
*Passat B3 16v knuckles, A3 Golf/GTI 2.0L knuckles, A2 Jettal GLI knuckles, or Corrado G60 knuckles can all be used.*
John 

Additions/corrections above in bold.
When you do get your set, be sure to rebuild the calipers while you've got everything apart. I was sure to get the parts needed for the rebuild, and repainted everything while it was all apart. So much easier.
HTH,
Steve


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## wicked2.0 (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*

What all is needed to rebuild the calipers? And price for everything?


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

New seals, cleaned pistons, new caliper bolts and guide pin seals, along with fresh grease.
If needed I can find part numbers for the seals, etc.


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2761712

_Quote, originally posted by *Scuba2001* »_Well thanks to GAP (www.germanautoparts.com) I got the parts I needed. I had to buy a new set of calipers though to get the pins.
Part numbers are:
447-698-471 $12.02 Caliper seals, TRW-Lucas parts, for BOTH calipers
443-698-470 $9.92 Boot and bolt kit, Must order 2


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## wicked2.0 (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: (Scuba2001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scuba2001* »_http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2761712


Hey man thanks a lot for your help. I found the bolt and boot kit, but cannot find the piston seals on GAP site. Can you give me a point of reference to find them?


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

Its something that isnt listed on the website. If you call them up and tell them the part number and such, they'll hook it up for ya.
Steve


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## richa3turbo (Feb 2, 2003)

*Re: (Scuba2001)*

Hi,
Is this available as a kit anywhere? Also, anyone know if they will fit under 15x8" ATS Cups??
Thanks
Rich


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

Not available as a kit anywhere that Im aware of.
Ebay is your friend. Thats where I got most of the parts from for a reasonable price.
ATS Cup fitment... that Im unsure of. They do however fit under my 15x7 Mille Miglia HT3's with no issues.


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## vr6tjet2 (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Seattle-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Seattle-G60* »_ I put this combo into my corrado and it would not stop the car...it definitely would slow the car to a stop.

You apparently didn't blead them enough.
I put a vr6 into my 95 4-door golf, and swapped the front brakes with this setup, and put discs on the back. I used the stock mk3 non-abs master, and it worked fine








The cars life ended during a high speed race with a Saab turbo, I will put it short as saying the car practically did an Endo before hitting the saab. I guess i caught up a little too quick







His rear-bumper went over the top of my front bumber to conect with the headlight, and this was with 4x4 vr6 stock suspension and 17's.








THere are flat spots on the tires, and it is obvious where the tires were locked up at like 130 mph


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (vr6tjet2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6tjet2* »_You apparently didn't blead them enough.
I put a vr6 into my 95 4-door golf, and swapped the front brakes with this setup, and put discs on the back. I used the stock mk3 non-abs master, and it worked fine









I was thinking the same thing... dude had me worried a little bit.
I did have some trouble getting all of the air out of the lines and calipers once I got things together. Ive since bled the brakes twice now to get the old 5+ year old fluid out, and now have clear brake fluid coming out, and air free.
It takes some time to bleed it all out, but worth the wait.


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## vr6tjet2 (Jan 11, 2004)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (Scuba2001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scuba2001* »_
I was thinking the same thing... dude had me worried a little bit.
I did have some trouble getting all of the air out of the lines and calipers once I got things together. Ive since bled the brakes twice now to get the old 5+ year old fluid out, and now have clear brake fluid coming out, and air free.
It takes some time to bleed it all out, but worth the wait.

Yeah, best way is to completely drain it, get a air hose, or something like that, and put some air pressure behind it, to make sure that the lines are cleared, then just fill it up, and bleed em all out like 2 times. You are supposed to blead the brake-fluid every 2 years I read somewhere, but I think that is a little to often?


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: My Girling 60 Caliper Upgrade: Complete (vr6tjet2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6tjet2* »_Yeah, best way is to completely drain it, get a air hose, or something like that, and put some air pressure behind it, to make sure that the lines are cleared, then just fill it up, and bleed em all out like 2 times. You are supposed to blead the brake-fluid every 2 years I read somewhere, but I think that is a little to often?

That is one of the best ways. I also have a set of 'Speed Bleeders' on the rear calipers. That made things easy. They sent the wrong ones for the Audi calipers, so I still have the conventional bleeders up front. But yes, vacuum bleeding is one of the best ways to do it, as long as you have the equipment.
Brake fluid is hydroscopic (meaing, it absorbs water). Water in the lines equals air. Heat that water up during heavy use, and youve got serious air in the lines. Two years is recommended to keep the fluid fresh (a complete flush) so you dont have debris floating around in your brake system.


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## richa3turbo (Feb 2, 2003)

Can anyone tell me some figures please?
I need to know the distance from the outside most edge of the caliper, to the hub face (to ensure offset of wheel is OK) and from middle of hub to the outside most part of the caliper (to ensure inside wheel diameter is ok)
Would really appreciate it!
Thanks


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## richa3turbo (Feb 2, 2003)

Also, what parts are necessary to upgrade a mk2 GTi 16v, and what car do they come from?


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## vr6tjet2 (Jan 11, 2004)

should just be the Corrado G60 11'' rotors,
the Audi Girling 60 calipers with their carriers of cours,
and what ever pads above that you want to use. I had to buy mine from Audi Dealer, and they were listed at like $130.
That is all it took me to do this on my mk3 2.0


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (richa3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *richa3turbo* »_Also, what parts are necessary to upgrade a mk2 GTi 16v, and what car do they come from?

As in the first thread... this upgrade was done on a mk2 gti. Ive listed the parts needed 3 times I think now in this same thread.
Steve


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

*Re: (Scuba2001)*

Well I wanted to report back on this upgrade.... almost a year later.
I've finally had all of my mechanical issues fixed. CIS-E is a biatch, and Digi2 is much more user friendly compared to CIS.
I've since put about 35 miles on the car since its been completely running and these brakes are mush as crap. It will slow the car down about twice, and then the peddle falls to the floor. I'm sure I still have a BUTT load of air in the system. So I need to invest in a low budget vacuum bleeder for the brakes so I can bleed these things properly and be sure things are nice and tight.


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## MACALLEN (Sep 17, 2003)

*Re: (Scuba2001)*

even with a 22mm master cylinder the pedal still has alot of travel but braking power should still be considerably better. sometimes the master cylinder will take a crap if left too long without fluid, found out the hard way. do lots of bleeding! and if you want a stiffer pedal go with the original master cylinder that came with the calipers (audi late 80's something or other) *25.4mm *(part# 447 611 021)


_Modified by MACALLEN at 11:22 PM 8-14-2007_


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## sbc63trls250 (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: (MACALLEN)*

do you have to use the audi 5000 pads? The corrado pads won't work?


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## Scuba2001 (Jul 16, 2002)

Yes, you MUST use Audi 5000 pads. Corrado G60/SLC pads WILL NOT work as they are shorter. The Corrado brake are Girling 54, single piston calipers, while the Audi 5000 brakes are Girling 60's dual piston. The carriers are slightly larger then the Girling 54 caliper carriers.
Steve


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (Scuba2001)*

we put these on my friends mk3 2.0T and they work great, but mintex and axxis pads are crap anyway, go with some hawk HPS or ferrodo. The Girling 60 dual pistons also came on 93-on Audi 90's with the V6 engine, maybe the cabriolet too, they tend to be much cleaner than ones found from late 80's 5000's. In europe the GTI (16v) got the 10.1's so the guy from britain may not need new front knuckles.


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## where_2 (Jul 21, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_ The Girling 60 dual pistons also came on 93-on Audi 90's with the V6 engine, maybe the cabriolet too, they tend to be much cleaner than ones found from late 80's 5000's.

The Girling 60's in my garage were off a V6 Audi 90 CS. Ironically, they had blue paint marker on them as if they were junkyarded once before. 
Curious about the Speed Bleeder fittment someone mentioned. Which diameter/thread pitch are needed?


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

Scuba2001 said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *goodridge* »_So you have used....
> Corrado Discs? 280mm? *Corrado G60 11" rotors*
> Girling 60 calipers (audi s2) and carriers? *'86 Audi 5000 Quattro Turbo*
> Audi pads *Yes, from the same car listed above*
> ...


 do you know if 94 cabrio girling 60 calipers would work on a scirocco 2? i found me a pair at my local junk yard along with some girling 54 calipers. i went with the girling 54 as its a direct bolt on to the scirocco. there was a scirocco in the junk yard to do some test fitting :laugh: if its possible would i need to change my sterreing knuckle or just the carrier? and from what car? sorry for all the questions lol


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

Scuba2001 said:


> Yep, youve about got right.
> I bought new wheel bearings and such also, but have yet to swap them out.
> Add Golf 2.0L steering knuckles to the list also.


i found some girling 60 calipers from a 94 cabrio and stashed them in another car.
do i really need to get the new steering knuckles to use the girling 60 calipers??
or would a corrado g60 carrier work?


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

Scuba2001 said:


> Yes, you MUST use Audi 5000 pads. Corrado G60/SLC pads WILL NOT work as they are shorter. The Corrado brake are Girling 54, single piston calipers, while the Audi 5000 brakes are Girling 60's dual piston. The carriers are slightly larger then the Girling 54 caliper carriers.
> Steve


actually the audi 5000 also has the girling 54 calipers.
you might be talking about the audi gt 5000 turbo. i think those are the ones with girling 60 calipers. i pulled my girling 54 calipers off an 87 audi 5000 with rear drums.


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## 2a2gtis (Jan 31, 2008)

Ive got 2 pair of those calipers. 1 set Sandblasted and ready to go minus the piston seals. The only thing that is holding me up is the M/C. The car there for have the corrado vr brakes on it now w/a 22mm M/C.
I thought the minimum was a 23.8mm or the optimum was the 25mm M/C
Now I'm curiuos is the 22mm enough???
* I see the threads old- but I thought I'd post anyway*


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## dubman#1 (Feb 25, 2003)

I've got a set I've been rebuilding. Have them blasted and taken apart, ready for paint and all the new seals I picked up. 

Anyone have any info on fitting these on 5x100? I've got a 97 mk3 VR setup on my mk2 now.


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## 83jetta16v (Feb 23, 2013)

*Girling 60's*

I have this same set up on my 91 gti g60. I've actually tried this with a 20mm master cylinder and it was pretty scary how far the brake pedal would travel. My car didn't have the 22mm MC like it should have for a g60. I found a 25 mm MC at the junk yard for $12 and it now barely has any travel and is very stiff. I then installed a 23mm MC off of another Audi, and it feels much better. Plenty of stopping power and modulation. So basically that's the size MC I'd recommend if you want to keep the feel that it would have had from the factory.


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## killervr6 (Feb 16, 2009)

83jetta16v said:


> I have this same set up on my 91 gti g60. I've actually tried this with a 20mm master cylinder and it was pretty scary how far the brake pedal would travel. My car didn't have the 22mm MC like it should have for a g60. I found a 25 mm MC at the junk yard for $12 and it now barely has any travel and is very stiff. I then installed a 23mm MC off of another Audi, and it feels much better. Plenty of stopping power and modulation. So basically that's the size MC I'd recommend if you want to keep the feel that it would have had from the factory.


do you remember which audi you got the 23 mc from?


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