# Fuel cut vs misfire



## chewbacca5017 (Apr 20, 2007)

I'm running APR stage II with stock pump. 99% of the time, the engine runs nice and strong. But sometimes, at WOT in gears 3/4/5, the engine seems to sputter and hesitiate for a couple seconds. Not sure if this is fuel cut, as it doesn't feel like I'm hitting the brakes (as others on the vortex seem to describe it). But I'm not sure if it's misfires either, as I don't get misfires any other time. 

Anyone else with this same experience? Could it be that I need a HPFP? Maybe check my plugs/coils? Or could it just be lots of carbon buildup on the intake valves? 

Any help would be appreciated.


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## TheBirds (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm hitting the same problem. I'm Revo Stg 2+. I've replaced the plugs, coil packs (thanks vw recall). Leads me to believe there is a bad injector somewhere in there. Replacing the plugs helps for like 500 miles, but then it gets to its old self again.


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## xxxfast (Jul 26, 2007)

what version of the tune are you on? 


I had the same problem on an old apr stg2 tune........new packs, some colder plugs, and updated tune fixed the problem 

and if that doesn't fix it.....what fuel pump ver do you have? :beer: 


Rather than spend the $ I would have someone do some logs via vag-com to find the prob


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## oakley917 (Jul 19, 2007)

I occasionally have a similar problem, my car is setup with revo stage 2, 3 inch catless downpipe, intake, but stock fuel pump and injectors and i feel that the turbo is just able to flow too much for the car's stock fueling to keep up.


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## brekdown29 (Jun 26, 2007)

What you guys describe is definitely fuel related.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

fuel cut would be a pronounced drop in fuel, and power. If your fuel is not keeping up, and you start to run lean, or your engine and turbo get hot because of it, your ECU stops the pull for a second to avoid possible damage (thats what ive been told anyway). 

if it feels like its just struggling, and not a definite CUT in power, id say your looking at either coils, plugs, or maybe an injector. 

idk tho, it could even be the cam or cam follower. 

good luck!


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## chewbacca5017 (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks for all the info. 
I keep regular tabs on my cam follower and I just recently replaced my coil packs and plugs so I don't think those are the issues. I got my stage II tune back in early 2008 so perhaps there may be a new version out since then. 
I'll have to look into that...... or maybe just upgrade my HPFP and call it a day.


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## TheBirds (Oct 5, 2009)

Any update chewey?

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## GERHARD PETZER (Jan 21, 2004)

I am having this problem too. I have been doing a lot of logs, and found it to be fuel related. I have replace every thing, pump,cam all the sensors, and a faulty coil pack. Still no joy. The strange thing is that the problem is not there all the time, what I mean is sometimes I run a log and the rail pressure is fine. I will give it a hour or two log again, and the rail pressure drop again. And this always happens between 3000-4000 rpm. strange I have been having thoughts of fitting a HPFP, but am scared of the damage it could cause to the cam should the follower fail. Also I run GIAC on my car and I think I will need to ask them for a update on my map, and I am not sure if they would do that for me.


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## hinshu (May 29, 2001)

Had the exact same issue with the exact same tune. Replaced the coil packs to the revision F, it got better. Swapped in some NGK BKR7EIX and the problem was solved for me. I figured it just needing s one heat range cooler plugndue to the increase in hp. So far so good, and the car actually pulls a lot better.


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## DC5toMKVGLI (Oct 4, 2010)

Im having the same EXACT problem I called APR and they said I mingh have to replace my fuel system... I was wondering if anybody has solved this problem??? Im thinking about ordering this it could help out some http://www.urotuning.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2362{13}465


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## hayejay (Jun 16, 2008)

I run into this issue.. with Revo and APR Stage 2. But lets think.. your engine is requesting more power/ fuel at higher boost.. the factory hpfp can only meet so much extra volume. It to needs an up grade to match the other upgrades. I have looked into every hpfp that's out there and they all do about the same thing inside. larger piston and larger openings in the fuel fittings. I bet the cause is the lack of fuel. Check your boost gauges.. are they not showing the boost pulling back but cause the lack of fuel? Fuel also keeps the engine cool.. to much air and less fuel makes it hot.. More fuel.. Unfortunitly I think APR hpfp is the way to go to bad it just alot of dough..


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## DC5toMKVGLI (Oct 4, 2010)

Ya I think thr apr hpfp id the only fix. We gets me though is the revised stage2 was programmed not to cause this, atleast this is what I was told by apr .... Anyways thanks for the help


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## TheBirds (Oct 5, 2009)

I replaced all the plugs with oem ngk instead of the step colder plugs. Everything so far (been a week) is running like it used to. Idle is a lot more smooth I've noticed. I believe my problem was the plugs came loose after so many miles. I used a torque wrench this time to ensure proper fit.


I missed my 23lbs of boost!


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## madmortar (Dec 28, 2008)

Why the hell doesnt APR just make the stage 2 tune not as aggressive??? 
The change from Stage 2 to 2+ would be greater AND stage 2 people wouldnt have damn fuel cuts...WTF....

In my mind they shouldnt put out a tune if it causes possible fuel cuts and makes you get their pump.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

their tune is already pretty damn mild compared to what some people with REVO tune theirs to. I am stage 2 and have never had a fuel cut... even on my SUPER worn out cam follower right now.

ymmv


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## DC5toMKVGLI (Oct 4, 2010)

Replaced the coils and got new one heat range cooler spark plugs. It helped some but its still there ,in the higher rpms, lookslike im gonna get the apr fuelpump afterall


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

If you've rulled out spark plugs and coil packs, there are a couple common things I see. 

1. Dirty fuel filter. 
A lot of you guys have higher miles by now. Most have never changed the fuel filter. I believe VW says it never needs changed... that's not quite true when you are really pushing the system. It's not a bad idea to try a brand new fuel filter. Just make sure you get a GTI filter and not a Rabbit filter. They have different relieve valves. 

2. Low side fuel pump may be taking a crap.
So you've replaced the fuel filter but you still have issues. Log block 106 at idle. See what the fuel pump duty cycle is. nNormally if it's a good pump on a good fueling system it will be around 40%. If you see 60% 80% or higher, the low side fule pump may be on it's way out. May be time to replace it. 

3. Fuel pump's cutting out. 
Normally if you have a bad solenoid on a HP fuel pump you'll get a full on fuel cut and will be throw into limp mode. So it could be a HP fuel pump going bad (rebuild will not fix this, may mask it though), but it may not be. 

4. Worn cam follower. 
Pull the pump, of the all the black is worn off the cam follower, replace it.

5. Worn cam.
If the cam follower is worn and the cam shows wear, you may be in a bit of trouble. The cam profile may be worn so much you're unable to pump the correct amount of fuel you need. 

6. Rail relief valve opening too soon.
So if you confirmed everything else is great, but when you log rail pressure you notice rail pressure is still all over the place, or maybe coming in low, there is a chance the rail relief valve is relieving itself too early and needs replaced. 

7. Injectors are bad. 
Nothing else seems to make sense? Maybe one of the injectors is failing.


Tried all that? Have no answers? Getting fed up? 
Not the real answer but it can help mask the issue... jump back to stage 1 software. If you have a high flow cat that will trip a cel, give us a call and we'll make you a stage 1 testpipe file. Stage 1 doesn't run the system quite as hard. Power will be less but if the problem goes away at least you'll be able to drive around without the car breaking up.


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm having the same issue on my k04'd 2.0t. I haven't been able to log as my laptop battery is cooked. 

I'm throwing a dart Tuesday night. New fuel filter and pugs. Might even pull my hpfp to check for wear. Or just install the h2sport follower fix as they are in the same building


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## .:RRRRediculous (Sep 22, 2009)

i have an 07' GLI with APR Stage II software, full 3" turbo-back exhaust no cats, CAI, brand new OEM fuel pump, newer injectors, new spark plugs, and a catch can system. 

before i got the new fuel pump, i experienced the exact same problem. 
after the new fuel pump, i still experience the same problem but not as bad. 

should i replace the fuel filter? 
and the dealer said my cams are fine.. 

i realllllyyyyyyy want to get rid of this issue. 
i just moved and im not sure if theres even an APR rep out here..


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## hayejay (Jun 16, 2008)

Side note.. Im using Royal Purple now.. car runs much better.. boost is ridiculous.. reminds me of my Revo chip but the smoothness of the APR. Still need a hpfp for the top end just basic mechanics. Stage 2 helps open up the engine more and take off the CEL.. Not bad idea to replace the fuel filter.. But if it was injector or coils the CEL would flash you would think. But what do i know


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

Update: 

Changed spark plugs tonight. All four were equally loose. When I installed them I torqued them all to spec. This was roughly 20k km ago.... 

Now for the kicker. Since I had the engine cover off I decided to pull my fuel pump and check the follower. I installed an APR HPFP roughly 25k km ago with a new follower. This follower now has a large hole in it! The fuel pump has been running on the cam and is now scored. 

I'm a little shocked. I mean, I do change my oil every 5000 km. I always allow the engine to reach proper oil temperature before any boost or high rpm. I NEVER let the oil get low.... it's a real kick in the balls when you try to do everything you can to prevent something like this. And then it happens anyways. 

I need a drink. Car is getting fixed tomorrow at H2sport with their roller follower solution.


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

bummer :beer:


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## nemisis41 (Jul 21, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Update:
> 
> Changed spark plugs tonight. All four were equally loose. When I installed them I torqued them all to spec. This was roughly 20k km ago....
> 
> ...


 At least you're near H2sport, long drive from the PNW. Give us feed back :thumbup:


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## RoamingNick (Jun 17, 2008)

The following turned out to be duff injector: 


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


Chassis Type: 1K0 
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 55 56 62 72 

VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ7U040344 Mileage: 49020km/30459miles 

00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000 
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010 
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000 
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000 
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000 
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000 
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000 
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000 
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000 
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000 
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000 
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000 
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000 
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000 
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000 
55-Xenon Range -- Status: OK 0000 
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000 
62-Door, Rear Left -- Status: OK 0000 
72-Door, Rear Right -- Status: OK 0000 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06F-907-115-AXX.lbl 
Part No SW: 1K0 907 115 J HW: 8P0 907 115 B 
Component: 2.0l R4/4V TFSI 0030 
Revision: 5BH16--- Serial number: VWZ7Z0G8122167 
Coding: 040300431C070160 
Shop #: WSC 00046 412 00000 
VCID: 2D5ADD3FCD63 

3 Faults Found: 
005634 - Power Supply Terminal 30: Voltage too Low 
P1602 - 002 - Lower Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 00100010 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 1 
Mileage: 0 km 
Time Indication: 0 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 0 /min 
Load: 0.0 % 
Speed: 0.0 km/h 
Temperature: -40.0°C 
Temperature: -40.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 0.0 mbar 
Voltage: 0.000 V 

000768 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected 
P0300 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 00100001 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 2 
Mileage: 48974 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2000.00.00 
Time: 12:29:07 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 3278 /min 
Load: 71.7 % 
Speed: 43.0 km/h 
Temperature: 92.0°C 
Temperature: 45.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar 
Voltage: 14.224 V 

000769 - Cylinder 1: Misfire Detected 
P0301 - 001 - Upper Limit Exceeded - Intermittent 
Freeze Frame: 
Fault Status: 00100001 
Fault Priority: 0 
Fault Frequency: 2 
Mileage: 48974 km 
Time Indication: 0 
Date: 2000.00.00 
Time: 12:29:07 

Freeze Frame: 
RPM: 3278 /min 
Load: 71.7 % 
Speed: 43.0 km/h 
Temperature: 92.0°C 
Temperature: 45.0°C 
Absolute Pres.: 1000.0 mbar 
Voltage: 14.224 V


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

nemisis41 said:


> At least you're near H2sport, long drive from the PNW. Give us feed back :thumbup:


 Yes. It is handy working next door. 

I got the car back at the end of the following day. No more misfires or fuel cut. Car has great power now. Sounds quieter too. And now I never have to worry about it again. 

:beer: to Tom, Jordan, and Bart of H2 for getting me back on the road.


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## .:RRRRediculous (Sep 22, 2009)

so it was the cam follower and a bad injector??? 
or just the cam follower??


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## nemisis41 (Jul 21, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Yes. It is handy working next door.
> 
> I got the car back at the end of the following day. No more misfires or fuel cut. Car has great power now. Sounds quieter too. And now I never have to worry about it again.
> 
> :beer: to Tom, Jordan, and Bart of H2 for getting me back on the road.


 I've been back and forth about doing this and HPFP at the same time,but I don't know if I can deal w/out my car while parts are shipped back and forth for assembly  sounds like it might be worth it though, especially since I'm planning on going BT


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## DC5toMKVGLI (Oct 4, 2010)

just ordered the APR HPFP if this does not work im gonna punch a midget, or just get reflashed to stage one

BTW I already changed the spark plugs, coils and got my injectors looked at.


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## nemisis41 (Jul 21, 2008)

I really haven't had the fuel cut out problem yet, I just don't want to end up with this :thumbdown:



[email protected] said:


>


I did how ever have my fuel module just quit altogether, car just died at a light, like I shut off the key! left me stranded about 120 miles from home, in town so small I was at it's only traffic light :facepalm:


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## DC5toMKVGLI (Oct 4, 2010)

nemisis41 said:


> I really haven't had the fuel cut out problem yet, I just don't want to end up with this :thumbdown:
> 
> 
> I did how ever have my fuel module just quit altogether, car just died at a light, like I shut off the key! left me stranded about 120 miles from home, in town so small I was at it's only traffic light :facepalm:


Dude, that is horrible. Ive never been so paranoid owning a car im constantly checking the cam follower and I change the oil every 3k. I also learned that our Intake valves get gummed up over time cuz fuel does not flow over them and clean them and I dont want to foul my plugs with sea foam.


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## nemisis41 (Jul 21, 2008)

DC5toMKVGLI said:


> Dude, that is horrible. Ive never been so paranoid owning a car im constantly checking the cam follower and I change the oil every 3k. I also learned that our Intake valves get gummed up over time cuz fuel does not flow over them and clean them and I dont want to foul my plugs with sea foam.


It's the crappy oem pcv system that gums them up, hence the catch can everyone makes now, I think I am going to do the H2Sport roller follower and do my my HPFP at the same time I just dread not having my car, especially after just getting it back from the body shop after getting rear ended by a land rover


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## [email protected] (Jan 6, 2006)

I think it's a wise choice if you are planning on upgrading the fuel pump. And it seems that the amount of oil changes doesn't matter as I do mine every 5k km (3k miles) and it still failed. 

But the good news was when the cam was out I got to look at the journals. Normally on the 2.0t's i've seen they are scored to ****. Mine, however, were perfect. So all those oil changes served there purpose I guess.


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## DC5toMKVGLI (Oct 4, 2010)

Got my fuel pump rebuilt by APR today but I was still getting the fuel cuts... [email protected] was right all i needed was a new fuel pump mine was hella clogged :banghead: anyways stage 2+ is the S*** im gonna get the intercooler next month and then the KO4 kit hopefully in feb.


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## nemisis41 (Jul 21, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I think it's a wise choice if you are planning on upgrading the fuel pump. And it seems that the amount of oil changes doesn't matter as I do mine every 5k km (3k miles) and it still failed.
> 
> But the good news was when the cam was out I got to look at the journals. Normally on the 2.0t's i've seen they are scored to ****. Mine, however, were perfect. So all those oil changes served there purpose I guess.


Gonna check and see what cam revision I have this week, then go accordingly


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