# APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump
After many long hours of testing, APR’s Engineering Team has developed the final solution to FSI fueling. Even unmodified FSI engines can experience a temporary loss of fuel pressure due to inefficient delivery by the OEM FSI fuel pump. The APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump was designed to ensure consistent fuel pressure delivery and will support up to 520hp. The APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump requires engine management recalibration to allow for the increased size of the APR Fuel Pump to ensure flawless drivability and is included with your purchase. APR Stage 2 and Ko4 Turbocharger clients will be able to take advantage of increased horsepower and torque up to 25hp and 35lb ft with APR Fuel Pump specific engine management recalibrations.
Pricing is $1099 but as an introductory offer for Waterfest 13 you will save an additional 10% and pricing is $989!
Inventory of APR FSI Pumps is in stock and awaiting final assembly and quality inspection. Order now for the special pricing and you will receive one of the first pumps no later than August 24th.
To place your order, please contact your APR Distribution Network found here http://www.goapr.com/VW/dealer/locator.php or order at the APR Online Store http://www.goapr.com/ or call 800-680-7921


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## omni1 (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

how about getting rid of this plastic manifold of ours and replacing it with better one







, I wouldn't mind purchasing that


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## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Holy 1100 batman!
I guess if you're going stage 3, whats another grand?
Stage 2??? Don't think its worth it. Just my own opinion


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## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (omni1)*

what are the power increases for a stage 2+ ko3? ko4?


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Right...
Well if it is in stock as you say, would it be more...efficient form an advertiser's point of view to use a PHOTO instead of a production drawing ??
Just a thought....


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## slk3q (Jan 23, 2007)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

I have been waiting to get Stage 2 software. If I buy this pump can I get the Stage 2 software as part of the $1099 is that extra?


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## NoahsGTI (Jan 16, 2007)

Delicious! Yet another top-quality product offered by y'all! :bigok:


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## mkvgtiblk06 (Mar 2, 2007)

I will be getting this after my exhaust.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (omni1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *omni1* »_how about getting rid of this plastic manifold of ours and replacing it with better one








, I wouldn't mind purchasing that









Has anyone cracked one?


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## NoahsGTI (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (omni1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *omni1* »_how about getting rid of this plastic manifold of ours and replacing it with better one







, I wouldn't mind purchasing that









Plastic is going to keep your boost cooler than Alum. Plastic is smoother on the inside than even an Extrude Hone Alum/Metal manifold. Leave well enough alone


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## REVGTI (Nov 14, 2001)

I wish your specials were more frequent. I am definitely intersted in this product once I see the results!
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## snowboardegn (May 4, 2003)

*Re: (REVGTI)*

How big of a PITA will this be to install?


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## TypeR #126 (May 10, 2006)

Wow, sure is purdy, but my ayy-noose is aching from here!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (snowboardegn)*

How much of a gain will this provide over normal Stage 2 (software + dp) setup, or even a stage 1 (software only) setups? I read 25hp but is that for stage 2 clients and ko4 clients or stage2 ko4 clients?



_Modified by Arin at 8:01 PM 7-17-2007_


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (snowboardegn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowboardegn* »_How big of a PITA will this be to install?

I second that. Isnt removing the fuel pump potentially a deadly process if you dont know what your doing?


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## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
I second that. Isnt removing the fuel pump potentially a deadly process if you dont know what your doing?

From checking my eBauhn manual it isn't that much of a PITA...emmm pita bread....bleeding off the pressure reads to be pretty simple. I think the $1100 is the biggest PITA even at a 10% discount. But if you have fuel issues, as I have at StgII, then it is tempting, especially since I'm at the production version of StgII with issues....
$1100







do you not expect to sell many of these, therefor the steep price??


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## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: (PeteA3)*

I guess I will have to start saving for the $1100








But this is certainly good news http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lnferno (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

Keith -- YGM


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## DeathMoJo (Oct 8, 2006)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (lnferno)*

like most interested in seeing the gains on a GTI with stage 2 software! Preferably one running atleast a intake and TBE.


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## omni1 (Mar 21, 2006)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (NoahsGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoahsGTI* »_
Plastic is going to keep your boost cooler than Alum. Plastic is smoother on the inside than even an Extrude Hone Alum/Metal manifold. Leave well enough alone











Not if you want to run Water Meth, like a majority of us would like to, but unfortunately cannot because this plastic stuff will crack.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

Yes! Now things will begin to get interesting. What HP is can this fuel pump support?


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## lnferno (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: (TooLFan46n2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TooLFan46n2* »_What HP is can this fuel pump support?


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_The APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump was designed to ensure consistent fuel pressure delivery and will support up to 520hp.


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: (lnferno)*

Opps guess I read to fast







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GRN6IX (Jan 2, 2003)

Props for being the first...


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (GRN6IX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GRN6IX* »_Props for being the first...

as expected!


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

damn... $1100.
i guess i'm gonna have to stark making my own... jk


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## 2lowcoupedoor (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (rysskii3)*

That's a Fu(ken lot of money. My guess is you guys won't well many with a price tag of over one thousand dollars. Give me a break! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (rysskii3)*

I think Dante (inferno) and I had been both in the same boat at one time. If I can just take a second to explain that when I had the k03 the programming was absolutely fantastic. It was incredible on the A4 2.0T FSI. At an independent shop I saw the following...
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id77.html
So later I added a huge exhaust to this car. Keep in mind that for our A4 cars this exhaust was one of the largest out there. IT was the Neuspeed 2.75" dual outlet exhaust with straight through mufflers on it. I was psyched to see the same gains we had seen on the 1.8T applications. I was hoping for 10whp and 10wtq or more. I technically saw no gains with it. Now keep in mind that on stock programmed cars the exhaust makes HUGE gains on our platform...
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id80.html
So after investing a significant amount on the exhaust (IIRC it is an $1100 or better retail) I decided to see if an extremely high quality 200cpsi Milltek/HJS high flow cat could get me what I wanted....
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/id81.html
Again, no gains were made. I was dumbfounded until I was looking at the fuel system and saw this really may be the limitation. Interestingly, another shop whose owner I consider a buddy dynod a STOCK programmed A4 2.0T FSI with a testpipe and gained 20whp and over 40wtq. It started to make sense that this was the fuel system limitations in that once I was so well programmed there wasnt alot more to be had in my specific A4 2.0T fsi application.
The option I took was to install the K04 which was able to change the powerband enough that gains were realized but I suspected there was a lot left to see.
I think these fuel pumps are a good part of what will help people to not only realize the gains from K04 and larger turbo applications but also to realize the power from maxed out K03 applications. In essence what I am saying is that for the k03 on my car I would have saved a crapload by just chipping it and not spending the additional 2 grand on high flow cats and exhaust until the fuel pump was available and I would have been able to recognize those gains not only from the added hardware I had in exhaust hardware but in the programming that would have allowed me to take advantage of that. A lot of A4 folks have been waiting for this.
EDIT: Btw, I had forgotten how competitive this forum can be so I want to clarify that I am not advocating specifically for the APR pump but only stating my experience with fuel system limitations and am extremely pleased to see ANY of these pumps come to market...
http://www.mjbmotorsport.com/fsifuel.html
cheers! Mike


_Modified by bhvrdr at 10:19 PM 7-17-2007_


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## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_Right...
Well if it is in stock as you say, would it be more...efficient form an advertiser's point of view to use a PHOTO instead of a production drawing ??
Just a thought....


it looks identical to the stock pump. 


_Modified by YoungMedic at 5:25 AM 7-18-2007_


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## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

Its a stock pump with modified internals. Big Deal we have made it before with best results. Only problem was premature cam wear to the pump lobe. I just hope APR fixed that;


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## SilverA3 (May 2, 2007)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (omni1)*

I am running Water/Meth on my 06' A3 for over a month now with nothing negative to say at all, I gained 25whp, 30wtq with just the Water/Meth alone. My pump is about to crap and if this is going to give 25 ponies for a thousand bucks I say count me in!!! My $1400 TBE maybe got me 10....hell this is going to be great if it really does produce those kinda numbers!


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## FlyingTurtle (Mar 26, 2006)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (SilverA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverA3* »_ My pump is about to crap and if this is going to give 25 ponies for a thousand bucks I say count me in!!! *My $1400 TBE maybe got me 10....hell this is going to be great if it really does produce those kinda numbers!*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

fellas you are complaining with 1100$ for the pump, many of you spent more than that on exhausts which produce half the power this pump and noise. 1100$ for 25hp and 30ft-lbs is not bad in my book......and it is going to be a perfect solution for those who in fact dont want to go the k04 or the s3 route and stay with stock turbo and stage2.


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## MVentoGT (Mar 22, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_








APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump


Did you use the same materials on the piston and bore as on the factory pump?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (ItalianGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ItalianGLI* »_what are the power increases for a stage 2+ ko3? ko4?


25hp and 35lbft in the low and mid range.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_Right...
Well if it is in stock as you say, would it be more...efficient form an advertiser's point of view to use a PHOTO instead of a production drawing ??
Just a thought....

lol, pictures don't really show much so I posted the drawing so the actual components can be viewed and discussed. I'll see about getting a pic up later!


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (slk3q)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slk3q* »_I have been waiting to get Stage 2 software. If I buy this pump can I get the Stage 2 software as part of the $1099 is that extra?

If you already have an APR Ecu Upgrade the update to stage 2 and fuel pump recalibration is free. If you don't have it, you'll need to purchase an ecu upgrade to get stage 2 or the fuel pump recal that adds power.
There is a small reflash that doesn't take advantage of the power potential of the APR FSI pump but does provide all the fuel you could want!


_Modified by [email protected] at 9:57 AM 7-18-2007_


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (snowboardegn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowboardegn* »_How big of a PITA will this be to install?


Its not very hard at all. It a 2 hours job if you move slowly. Bleeding the pressure is of extreme importance!


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## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
25hp and 35lbft in the low and mid range.

Is that whp or crank hp?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (PeteA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PeteA3* »_
From checking my eBauhn manual it isn't that much of a PITA...emmm pita bread....bleeding off the pressure reads to be pretty simple. I think the $1100 is the biggest PITA even at a 10% discount. But if you have fuel issues, as I have at StgII, then it is tempting, especially since I'm at the production version of StgII with issues....
$1100







do you not expect to sell many of these, therefor the steep price??

The price is dictated by the quality of materials. The internals of the pump themselves are nearly half of the retail price and then consider time to R&D and the assembly, qc and final testing.
We suffer a disadvantage in the market place from a pricing perspective whereas we always provide the highest quality materials, manufacturing processes and design and this raises costs significantly. We employ 30 staff, mostly highly trained professionals, and continually reinvest in new equipment. We look at companies like Lingenfelter and Dinan and feel our products are on par with theirs but we only require a fraction of the price!


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:04 AM 7-18-2007_


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (ItalianGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ItalianGLI* »_
Is that whp or crank hp?

crank


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (MVentoGT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MVentoGT* »_
Did you use the same materials on the piston and bore as on the factory pump?

I would guess no but the same principles were matched or bested with our choice of coatings but I will inquire and let you know shortly!


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## Supplicium (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to APR. Ill be saving to grab one of these, probably when (hopefully) APR comes out with a DV.


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## smartyin (Jul 24, 2005)

it is not cheap
will this fuel pump come with warranty??


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## Supplicium (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (smartyin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smartyin* »_it is not cheap
will this fuel pump come with warranty??











From APR's website:

_Quote »_WARRANTY: All items on this site (www.goapr.com) are warranted to be free from defects in the materials and workmanship prior to installation. This warranty does not cover labor, misuse, faulty installation, failure of related parts or parts purchased other than from APR, LLC. Please call for specific warranty information on each product. Each manufacturer may supply different timeframes for their products.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (smartyin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smartyin* »_it is not cheap
will this fuel pump come with warranty??










we were just discussing this!
Because we are going the extra mile and testing every single pump that leaves our facility for proper installation of the upgraded parts and operation of each pump, a warranty seems possible. I will have more info moving forward.


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## CRex (Apr 21, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*

keith can't you make me a bmw 328 ecu program?


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## K[email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (CRex)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CRex* »_keith can't you make me a bmw 328 ecu program? 

we could but we haven't amoritized the R&D expense to make it happen across several years of a resaleable product so you would basically have to pay our R&D costs to make it happen, sorry.
As an example, we have several hundreds of thousands tied up in me9 development but are ok with that as we will be selling ecu calibrations to lot's of people over several years so all of that money will come back to us.


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## CRex (Apr 21, 2002)

there are tons of 325i owners, 328 owners, 128 owners... z4 owners... 528 owners ... 
all you have to do is copy the program from the z43.0 si or 330 and slap in the 3 stage intake manifold... work is already done. bmw intentionally detuned these engines...


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

stop making parts for this crowd and start back making 99mm crankshafts!


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (CRex)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CRex* »_there are tons of 325i owners, 328 owners, 128 owners... z4 owners... 528 owners ... 
all you have to do is copy the program from the z43.0 si or 330 and slap in the 3 stage intake manifold... work is already done. bmw intentionally detuned these engines...

its not the calibration that is expensive or hard to accomplish itself, its understanding the communication protocols of the ecu and learning how to make it do what you want.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_stop making parts for this crowd and start back making 99mm crankshafts!









lol, we'll get right on that!


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## Spax MC (Oct 26, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

looks like a great piece...i'll def. pick one up
remember "GOTTA PAY TO PLAY"


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## mkvgtiblk06 (Mar 2, 2007)

did anyone order this yet? I just spent my money on the R32 turbo back exhaust and the U.S spec R32 bumper.


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## SilverA3 (May 2, 2007)

*Re: (mkvgtiblk06)*

So I'm guessing with this 25hp/35ft/tq gain we can see a marginal loss of MPG? Could I maybe get an estimate...if its like 1-2 I could live with it, but if im going to lose like 5 because this thing is just pouring fuel in then well.....I might have to convert to diesal and start brewing my own bio-diesel


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## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: (SilverA3)*

Keith,
Let me get this straight in my head. So gains are 25/35 for both K03 and K04 applications? What about octane specific increases? Can I safely assume if you have a K03, K04, 91 oct, 93, 100 oct file, they *ALL* have gains about 25/35?


_Modified by Sincity at 4:15 PM 7-18-2007_


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## CDN_MKV (Feb 19, 2005)

*Re: (SilverA3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverA3* »_So I'm guessing with this 25hp/35ft/tq gain we can see a marginal loss of MPG? Could I maybe get an estimate...if its like 1-2 I could live with it, but if im going to lose like 5 because this thing is just pouring fuel in then well.....I might have to convert to diesal and start brewing my own bio-diesel























A pump in itself will have no impact on mileage... the driver on the other hand that utilizes the extra hp made possible by the pump definitely will have an impact on mileage..








JJ


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
lol, we'll get right on that!









I was serious!








Keith maybe you should put these pumps on ebay or better yet send them to china for mass production







.How many people flocked to buy a Dhalback manifold @ $1100US and ended up making 1hp?$1000 for 25hp is a freaking steal!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Companies will keep charging whatever they like as long as there are suckers that are willing to pay...
I might give 1000 bucks for a GOOD IC, but for a FUEL PUMP ???
Ridiculous....


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_Companies will keep charging whatever they like as long as there are suckers that are willing to pay...
I might give 1000 bucks for a GOOD IC, but for a FUEL PUMP ???
Ridiculous....

interesting comparison you made as the fuel pump is much more crucial to the life of your engine if a failure was to occur, has more expensive parts, requires more assembly and makes more power.


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## NoahsGTI (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_Companies will keep charging whatever they like as long as there are suckers that are willing to pay...
I might give 1000 bucks for a GOOD IC, but for a FUEL PUMP ???
Ridiculous....

"Quality ain't cheap" is the saying I believe that best fits here.
From discussing things with APR, they have gone to some lengths to find a machinery that is able to give the exacting tolerances required. That alone has to be the major cost of the pump! 
Besides if you want to put down, say 500WHP, than you need reliable parts. If you want that kind of power than frankly 1k shouldn't put much of a dent in your budget AT ALL. 
You say ridiculous, I say drive on!!


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
interesting comparison you made as the fuel pump is much more crucial to the life of your engine if a failure was to occur, has more expensive parts, requires more assembly and makes more power.

Oh God....
Yes you are so right....
Why settle for 1000 then ??
Lets make it 2000.I would certainly do anything to "rescue" my engine from total destruction !!!
But hey lets face it...Thats what the "fuel cut" is for....right ??
I already said i might be buying your IC since it looks like a competitive product, but i don't think i'll be spending 1000 $ for a pump....Nope....


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## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

Can you post a dyno plot showing this 25whp?
Is 25whp aply to k04 also?
$1000 is not a big deal and i would gladly spent to get this pump


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (csih)*


_Quote, originally posted by *csih* »_Can you post a dyno plot showing this 25whp?
Is 25whp aply to k04 also?
$1000 is not a big deal and i would gladly spent to get this pump

Companies will keep charging whatever they like *as long as there are suckers that are willing to pay...* 
Thank you for proving me right once again...


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Companies will keep charging whatever they like *as long as there are suckers that are willing to pay...* 
Thank you for proving me right once again...
















Simple supply and demand. If the pumps dont sell for $1,000, I guarantee you within 6 months the price Will drop significantly, or they will simply stop producing them
I will pay $500 at the Most for a quality, 500whp capable fuel pump. Which means I will likely have to wait for the price drops.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
Simple supply and demand. If the pumps dont sell for $1,000, I guarantee you within 6 months the price Will drop significantly, or they will simply stop producing them
I will pay $500 at the Most for a quality, 500whp capable fuel pump. Which means I will likely have to wait for the price drops.

But of course they will sell at that price.This is the tuning world remember ??
You can see a potential buyer right above...
Trust me prices are never going to fall....Its a known fact....


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
But of course they will sell at that price.This is the tuning world remember ??
You can see a potential buyer right above...
Trust me prices are never going to fall....Its a known fact....

What!? If for some reason prices for mk5 mods dont fall soon, They will fall 50% or more GUARANTEED when the MK6 comes out.
Im betting a 30% Big turbo kit decrease before next summer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif This winter will really decide if people will pay 6k for a big turbo kit, and 1k for a fuel pump.


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## NoahsGTI (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Companies will keep charging whatever they like *as long as there are suckers that are willing to pay...* 
Thank you for proving me right once again...
























People who *choose* to pay for quality parts from a top-notch business don't qualify as suckers, they are however intelligent and capable individuals.


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (NoahsGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoahsGTI* »_

People who *choose* to pay for quality parts from a top-notch business don't qualify as suckers, they are however intelligent and capable individuals. 








So if I give 6k cash to APR right now I will be intelligent and capable??? What if I wait and buy it for $3500??? Will I be a Super Hero then!?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Oh God....
Yes you are so right....
Why settle for 1000 then ??
Lets make it 2000.I would certainly do anything to "rescue" my engine from total destruction !!!
But hey lets face it...Thats what the "fuel cut" is for....right ??
I already said i might be buying your IC since it looks like a competitive product, but i don't think i'll be spending 1000 $ for a pump....Nope....

my point about the failure and assembly is that a company that produces it will suffer a greater expense going to further lengths to ensure that no failure will ever occur because of the nature of the damage that could result from a failure. a greater opportunity for severe damage is prevalent with a fsi fuel pump failure than with almost any other aftermarket product on the market currently. if your clutch fails, the car doesn't move, if the fuel pump leaks into your oil, the engine could fail.
we take this responsibility very seriously so we have spent extra money to ensure our's will never fail thus increasing the overall cost.


_Modified by [email protected] at 4:34 PM 7-18-2007_


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
my point about the failure and assembly is that a company that produces it will suffer a greater expense going to further lengths to ensure that no failure will ever occur because of the nature of the damage that could result from a failure. a greater opportunity for severe damage is prevalent with a fsi fuel pump failure than with almost another aftermarket product on the market currently. if you clutch fails, the car doesn't move, if the fuel pump leaks into your oil, the engine could fail.
we take this responsibility very seriously so we have spent extra money to ensure our's will never fail thus increasing the overall cost.

Great Sales skills right there! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## NoahsGTI (Jan 16, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
my point ... *snip* ...
*we take this responsibility very seriously * so we have spent extra money to ensure our's will never fail thus increasing the overall cost.

And that is what separates APR from other after-market vendors. This is why APR can indeed command the prices they do for their products. They are an honestly run business in it for YOU the consumer; not just for profit.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (csih)*


_Quote, originally posted by *csih* »_Can you post a dyno plot showing this 25whp?
Is 25whp aply to k04 also?
$1000 is not a big deal and i would gladly spent to get this pump

I am collecting the data and hope to be able to post a dyno tomorrow on a Stage 2 A3.
yes, it will apply to the ko4 as well!


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## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

One more question. If i install this pump on my K04 MTM setup will i have any problems? To see whp gains i need special software? (My car will travel soon to MTM HQ for further tuning (conversion to 2.2lt bt) so i will need the bigger pump (although i think MTM also has a bigger pump)


----------



## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

Just something to add to the pandemonium...
Last month I bought a 98 Mustang GT with a Vortech supercharger. Car belonged to a friend of mine who died and his wife wanted it gone. I like straight-line fun, so I went to work researching how I could improve the car. Follow me on this for a moment: 
-Purchase price of car: $6000 (I lucked out)
-Bassani catted X-pipe: $299
-SLP Loudmouth exhaust (straight-through mufflers): $375
-Vortech V1 S-trim supercharger, 7psi, complete kit $3500
-Tuning for blower: $350
-SPEC Stage 2 clutch: $350
-14lb Billet steel flywheel: $249
-13" Cobra brake kit with 2-piston calipers: $399
For a total of $5,522.00 + tax
Results: car made a sluggish 225hp and 295lb/ft when it rolled off the assembly line in Dearborn, MI. 
With the above mods, it put down 350whp and 407wtq...runs 12.50s in the quarter mile on pump gas (0-60 in 4.1)...all for $4700 spent in the right places (and me doing the labor because it is a simple-minded car).
Stay with me now.
Let's look at my 2006 GLI and what it will take to duplicate this level of performance...
-Purchase price of car: $25,700
-APR Software flash $649 (2 programs)
-APR 3" TB stealth exhaust: $1300
-Carbonio intake: $249
If I want to go faster...
-APR Stage 3 turbo kit: $5900
-Spec Stage 2 Clutch: $619
-Billet steel flywheel: $419
-Quaife or Peloquin LSD: $950
-Brembo big brake kit with 13" rotors: $2500
-Labor for above parts installed: $1600
-TOTAL for 385hp setup: $14,186
Conclusion: imports of ALL origins are stupid expensive. These cars have TWICE the technological advancement of their American counterparts, and the part upgrades reflect that.
It isn't right for ANYONE on this board to castigate APR for making a higher quality product and pricing it accordingly. There is no margin for error on these cars like there is on a cheaply built Ford or Chevy. No one said going fast is cheap, but if you REALLY are on a shoestring budget, then you need to keep your ride stock and unmolested, or stick with American cars.
If you are a TRUE believer in the fun, quality, and automotive prowess of German engineering, then suck it up and run with the V-Dubs and Audis. This gift of choice is the ultimate freedom to car nuts like us.
Is $1000 a lot for a fuel pump? Yes. That’s what happens when you invest in a technology that is 10 years ahead of its time. Notice you haven’t seen direct injection (FSI) on anything that didn’t have a VW, Audi, or BMW badge on the hood? It’s cutting edge people. These cars are not bargains, but they are worth every penny. If you disagreed with me you wouldn’t even be on this board right now… =-Þ
That said, there simply is NO need for griping and whining about the cost of parts on these cars. It is what it is. It’s not going to change (drastically anyway). If you did your homework prior to purchasing your VW like a smart tuner, then you knew that coming into this game.
Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Volkswagen, Audi, BMW...Japanese or German...these cars all carry an expensive aftermarket.
Accept it, or find another badge. -mcs


----------



## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

My apologies in advance for how poorly the text came out... =-{


----------



## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: (EurodealerTX)*

I'll take a Mazdaspeed 3 or a Saturn Sky then... oh wait, they're both direct injection, and turbocharged! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
What if I wait and buy it for $3500??? Will I be a Super Hero then!?

















no you'll just be without a turbo kit for LOOOOOONG time








if you are such a great prices estimator, how the APR Stage 3+ is still 5 grand for the 1.8t? how come do people still buy it for that price even though the 1.8 has been around in the gti for 7 years now and the mkv out for 2 years now. how come the price of APR software hasn't changed for the 1.8t ....been 499$ for as long as i can remember.
i dont see why you and golfrs are bickering about the pump and the kit.......when its real simple. if its to much for you dont buy it....gotta pay to play







there are plenty of people here who will, plus its not like these things are mass produced so they will be made accordingly to demand.
25hp and 35 torque for a 1000 is not bad at all.


----------



## YoungMedic (Mar 22, 2006)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

not to mention the stage 3 kit for the 1.8t is just now becoming profitable for the company. 

FYI as for the import vs domestic, there are bolt in fuel pumps for the modular cobra's that support 2x' the original HP that cost 1000 bucks. and im sure that required 1/10 the r&d and tolerances the high pressure pump did. 
No one has to buy these things. APR and whoever else wants to make coin selling crazy parts for ever evolving imports knows that people will buy what they want. Its why sportbikes never go on sale. People will buy them.


----------



## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
no you'll just be without a turbo kit for LOOOOOONG time








if you are such a great prices estimator, how the APR Stage 3+ is still 5 grand for the 1.8t? how come do people still buy it for that price even though the 1.8 has been around in the gti for 7 years now and the mkv out for 2 years now. how come the price of APR software hasn't changed for the 1.8t ....been 499$ for as long as i can remember.
i dont see why you and golfrs are bickering about the pump and the kit.......when its real simple. if its to much for you dont buy it....gotta pay to play







there are plenty of people here who will, plus its not like these things are mass produced so they will be made accordingly to demand.
25hp and 35 torque for a 1000 is not bad at all.

thats 25hp Crank! Im not saying I'll buy the Apr kit for 3500, Im saying I will make 450-500 whp for under 4k this winter.








And the 1.8T...You can buy a 300whp direct bolt on turbo kit, thats GIAC programmed for under $2,000. It will make the same power as an Apr 1.8T kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Im done now, sorry its off topic.
More Fuel Pump info! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by sasha18T at 9:41 PM 7-18-2007_


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The price is dictated by the quality of materials. The internals of the pump themselves are nearly half of the retail price and then consider time to R&D and the assembly, qc and final testing.
We suffer a disadvantage in the market place from a pricing perspective whereas we always provide the highest quality materials, manufacturing processes and design and this raises costs significantly. We employ 30 staff, mostly highly trained professionals, and continually reinvest in new equipment. We look at companies like Lingenfelter and Dinan and feel our products are on par with theirs but we only require a fraction of the price!

_Modified by [email protected] at 7:04 AM 7-18-2007_

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif nobody does it better


----------



## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (sasha18T)*

We'll see how long that setup lasts against one of their stage 3 kits, I know people that have gone 100k on apr's kit without any problems. They have solid warrenty's that they stick too with excellent customer service who know their stuff. If you want a kit that'll get you 500whp for 2g's which is pretty much a gamble on reliability then thats your prerogative; but if you want decent power and retain reliability apr's your best bet when it comes to audi, vdub and porche. 
This reminds me of an old school vdub fan who swapped a 1.8 in his mark 2 or 3 (can't remember) from around here who thinks he knows it all. "Hey I can hit higher whp with half the cost of that kit, if ya ask me I think the kits just way too over-engineered."







hahaha Direct quote I decided not to respond to that






































_Modified by Nitro7853 at 10:50 PM 7-18-2007_


----------



## goin2fast (Mar 23, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*



Nitro7853 said:


> apr's your best bet when it comes to audi, vdub and porche. QUOTE]
> A bit bias IMO but they do good stuff. I, personally an waiting to see what VF, AWE and AutoTech come out with in the next few months.
> If you really want to talk Porsche tuning in the USA look at the new European Car on Pg.64 for AWEs 700HP (at crank) 997T. Now that is good stuff. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (goin2fast)*


_Quote, originally posted by *goin2fast* »_.
If you really want to talk Porsche tuning in the USA look at the new European Car on Pg.64 for AWEs 700HP (at crank) 997T. Now that is good stuff. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 
MMM APR might have something to say about that, here is* one * of there IN HOUSE cars LOL


















_Modified by rracerguy717 at 7:02 AM 7-19-2007_


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## goin2fast (Mar 23, 2006)

Nice car. What is it putting down and doing in the 1/4??? Not a big fan of the yellow. That car looks much nicer in the white IMO.

OOOh, I am sure that APR will have something to say about AWE as there is no love loss there


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## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

I have been admiring my car after the Stage 2 reflash to the beta, now production program along with the Forge DV install. I keep thinking $1100 is money well spent for quality. If I had known APR was making a DV (I can be so blissfully ignorant sometimes) I might have waited on that as I am so impressed with the company and that of the shop New German Performance (NGP). Forge DV looks amazingly built as well though so no regrets !
Definitely a fuel pump in my future but I think it'll be with the Stage 3. I have some questions that I may PM you Keith. I'm a spirited daily driver which makes APR perfect for me as they're not 100% performance, they look a lot into reliability. So might get some PM's Keith. I'm not and will not be in a position to buy Stage 3 for awhile due to cost but every time I tell myself I can't get it I have 3 devils whispering "are you an idiot? save up or you'll regret it".
That brings me to my question which is hopefully not already answered. This fuel pump is the same in the Stage 3? Or does the Stage 3 have a more beefy one?


_Modified by SLY MK5 at 8:08 AM 7-19-2007_


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (SLY MK5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLY MK5* »_
That brings me to my question which is hopefully not already answered. This fuel pump is the same in the Stage 3? Or does the Stage 3 have a more beefy one?

_Modified by SLY MK5 at 8:08 AM 7-19-2007_
 
Its the same pump and you can later upgrade to a stage 3. 
Dont want to give away all Keiths thunder LOL







but there will be MANY option pricing with the new stage 3 kit .
The " OFFICIAL " release of this info will be @ Waterfest .







Bob.G


----------



## crew219 (Oct 18, 2000)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
MMM APR might have something to say about that, here is* one * of there IN HOUSE cars LOL

















_Modified by rracerguy717 at 7:02 AM 7-19-2007_

Nice effort Bob, but not good enough . . . .








APR was featured in this month's EVO for their 610hp 997 Turbo with a simple ECU remap and exhaust. Nothing but amazing reviews from the EVO staff. Only complaint was that all the extra power is too much for the stock 997 turbo suspension . . .








_click for larger pics_


anyways . . . . back on topic
Dave


----------



## SLYMK6 (Apr 22, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

I know I know, Waterfest, but damn! Can't blame a guy for trying to squeeze answers out about these great products.


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Nice effort Bob, but not good enough . . . .









 
Dave that's why i didn't post a pic of that IN HOUSE blue Porsche LOL, 
also it was there first stab at the Porsche market .
There not building a massive new facility just to tune Audi /Vw LOL,
I can tell you that LOL







Bob.G


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (csih)*


_Quote, originally posted by *csih* »_One more question. If i install this pump on my K04 MTM setup will i have any problems? To see whp gains i need special software? (My car will travel soon to MTM HQ for further tuning (conversion to 2.2lt bt) so i will need the bigger pump (although i think MTM also has a bigger pump)

it does require a reflash so you would only have software that we loaded for you at that point.
contact MTM and see if they need for you have a pump. they can also buy wholesale if they need several but I am sure they have a pump or will.
I would continue on the route you have planned unless you want our ko4 software with the pump.


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## mkvgtiblk06 (Mar 2, 2007)

any number with the fuel pump on the k03 stg 2 and k04 yet?


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (crew219)*


_Quote, originally posted by *crew219* »_
Nice effort Bob, but not good enough . . . .








APR was featured in this month's EVO for their 610hp 997 Turbo with a simple ECU remap and exhaust. Nothing but amazing reviews from the EVO staff. Only complaint was that all the extra power is too much for the stock 997 turbo suspension . . .








_click for larger pics_


anyways . . . . back on topic
Dave

Here's a dyno of just the dme recalibration on 93 oct.


----------



## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

That's pretty impressive! Good job APR http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## EurodealerTX (Oct 16, 2006)

I'm man enough to admit a mistake...
http://www.saturnskyredline.net/
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng...3.asp
I was not aware the Japanese and American cars had caught up to direct injection.
Quacks like a duck...might just BE a duck. M
Makes you wonder why our setups still produce so much more torque at the same boost levels as the redline and mazdaspeed, no?
Still Dubbin! -mcs


----------



## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: (EurodealerTX)*

Don't worry, I was just bustin' your chops...
FYI, all the Direct Injection turbo setups are pretty much limited by pump displacement in some form or fasion.


----------



## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Quote, originally posted by csih » 
One more question. If i install this pump on my K04 MTM setup will i have any problems? To see whp gains i need special software? (My car will travel soon to MTM HQ for further tuning (conversion to 2.2lt bt) so i will need the bigger pump (although i think MTM also has a bigger pump) 
it does require a reflash so you would only have software that we loaded for you at that point.
contact MTM and see if they need for you have a pump. they can also buy wholesale if they need several but I am sure they have a pump or will.
I would continue on the route you have planned unless you want our ko4 software with the pump.
I contact MTM and they have a pump. Thanks Keith


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (AutotechRD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutotechRD* »_
FYI, all the Direct Injection turbo setups are pretty much limited by pump displacement in some form or fasion.

On that note this would seem a good place to post this here is some testing from a reliable source in this Field of work on a stock pump that stole from another post LOL


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
On that note this would seem a good place to post this here is some testing from a reliable source in this Field of work on a stock pump that stole from another post LOL









Enginerd came up with that. It's pretty nice, now he just needs to retest is closer to the 130 bar that some tuners are able to acheive. I told him about it in the other post but he never responded. Ah well.


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## csih (Aug 27, 2006)

Wish that APR had department in Greece as APR Hellas and not by a dealer...dealers in Greece suck big time


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## bluelagoon1 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: (csih)*

since there is no stage 2 for the longitudinal engines, will there be a recalibration for our ecus? what type of numbers?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (csih)*


_Quote, originally posted by *csih* »_Wish that APR had department in Greece as APR Hellas and not by a dealer...dealers in Greece suck big time

have you visited our newest importer, APR Greece? I think you will like them!


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## bluelagoon1 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

since there is no stage 2 for the longitudinal engines, will there be a recalibration for our ecus? what type of numbers?
and also keith, why can't the fuel pump in other fsi engines be used? there are multiple cars that have fsi technology pushing the hp you guys are putting out (rs4, r8, veyron, and others), so why are these pumps not useable?


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (bluelagoon1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bluelagoon1* »_since there is no stage 2 for the longitudinal engines, will there be a recalibration for our ecus? what type of numbers?
and also keith, why can't the fuel pump in other fsi engines be used? there are multiple cars that have fsi technology pushing the hp you guys are putting out (rs4, r8, veyron, and others), so why are these pumps not useable?


yes, there will be recal's for a4's as well. the ko4 is already done. haven't tried on a stock turbo yet but should be similar to transverse.
they aren't any bigger. a 4 cylinder turbo has a greater brake specific fuel consumption per cylinder than everything else fsi including the veyron.


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## bluelagoon1 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

a larger enough ratio of fuel per cylinder to exceed the total consumption of the 4.2v8? in essence, if i'm understanding it correctly, the ratio would have to be doubled on the 4 cylinder


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## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: (bluelagoon1)*

Kieth is 100% correct. Also, keep in mind that the v8 and v10 engines have 2 fuelpumps, one on each bank. Not 100% sure about the veyron, but I would bet that each bank has it's own pump. FYI, according to an engineer at the proving grounds, the internal moving parts of the OE pumps are all the same...


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## bluelagoon1 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: (AutotechRD)*

now that makes more since if there are 2 pumps, or 1 for each bank. it wasn't seeming logical dividing everything with just 1 pump


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (bluelagoon1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bluelagoon1* »_a larger enough ratio of fuel per cylinder to exceed the total consumption of the 4.2v8? in essence, if i'm understanding it correctly, the ratio would have to be doubled on the 4 cylinder

there are 2 pumps so the bfsc could be the same but its definitely not greater. the 4.2 is still one pump per 4 cylinders, just like the 2.0T.


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## aussie audi guy (Jan 28, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Here's a nice little article (Porsche / APR content)
http://www.goapr.com.au/motor-july2007.pdf


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## [email protected] (Aug 26, 2001)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_









See what happens when I go out of town! The marketing material gets all out of whack! 7 microns is not a tolerance, it is something else. Either way it shouldn't be on any marketing material. Please ignore. I am not going to give away our actual tolerances as those are proprietary but I will say that they are far tighter than any tolerances being quoted by anyone on these forums. (The tolerances vary based on what part and dimension you are looking at but the tight tolerances are really, really tight!) Naturally these tolerance are well within the capabilities of our manufacturing partner but it still isn't cheap! The less critical parts are made in house on our Mazak lathe.
As for cost, there are reasons. First of all, if we just wanted to release a handful of parts we could have done this last year. The design had already been tested for thousands of miles at that point and was proven. The issue with this product is ensuring that every single pump installed is 100% because a single bad part can spell disaster. QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY! Anyone here who is familiar with quality control especially when dealing with highly critical, incredibly precise parts understands this problem.
Let me briefly explain what will happen if a high pressure pump fails. These are not "scare tactics". This is an honest explanation of the damage that can occur if one of these pumps go bad! There are several scenarios and none are particularly pretty. In the best scenario, the fuel pump will simply seize on the down stroke. This will simply cause the engine to stall. The fuel pump can be removed and replaced. Another scenario would be the fuel pump seizing on the up stroke. This is a lot worse. This will cause a mechanical failure of the either the pump body, retaining bolts or it will break the intake camshaft in half (remember, the high pressure pump is directly driven off of the intake camshaft.) We have never tested this failure so I can't tell you which one will break first but in any case one of them will. Either of these scenarios can happen if the plunger to barrel clearance is not perfect or if there is some other geometric fault in the assembly. This is not something that can be verified by eye or by feel. We prevent these two situations by certifying ever single plunger/barrel assembly and by testing every single pump that leaves our facility. If there is a problem, we will catch it! Every single pump endures a testing cycle that includes being run at engine redline and full system pressure.
Another potential high pressure pump failure is leakage of fuel into the engine. This is a potentially catastrophic failure. Since the pump is cam driven, one side of the fuel pump has direct access to the engine's oiling system. If fuel leaks past the fuel pump into the engine, the fuel can dilute the engine oil. The driver may have no clue that this is occuring until it is too late. It does not take a tremendous amount of fuel to dilute the engine oil to the point that the oil loses its lubrication properties. When this occurs you can loses bearings, camshafts, lifters, turbochargers- basically time for a new engine. How can this occur? Very simply. A slight error during assembly and the seal is damaged. A faulty seal can also do this. Even just torquing the retaining nut to the wrong torque can distort the bore of the pump just enough to cause a failure. A tiny amount of extra clearance on the plunger/barrel and the seal won't be able to hold back the pressure (remember, one side of the piston can see up to almost 2000 psi.) There is only one way to verify that this won't happen. Test the pumps before they are put on cars!
It has been stated that the fuel pump parts are so easy to replace, so why not let the end user do it? Why don't hard drive manufacturers sell replacement platters for do it yourself installation? Heck, there is only like four screws holding a hard drive together? The answer is simple- it is way, way to easy to screw it up and the implications are potentially disastrous. And even if you didn't screw it up you don't know for absolute sure that the pump is good until you put it on the car and test it. We found this concept absolutely entirely unacceptable. Believe me, if we thought it was acceptable we would have done it- it would have eliminated a great deal of work in testing and certifying the pumps and we could definitely have sold the pumps for less (and probably many more of them)!
Our high pressure fuel pump tester takes care of the problem of verifying the pumps. This was a large engineering undertaking! I won't bore you with too many of the details (we will write an article on the tester soon) but all of the mechanicals and electronics are custom. It is an impressive machine. This was by far the most difficult portion of this project.
Anyways, every pump is tested and we have enacted numerous quality measures to ensure that we will have a 100% success rate with these pumps so that you guys won't have any problems. Every pump begins with a brand new OEM pump. This affects the cost of course. In the future we hope to have a rebuild program where people can send in their original pumps and we perform the modifications. This will help cost. We will also work to get the cost down in other areas as we ramp the production quantities up.
I hope I haven't scared anyone away from a high pressure pump upgrade. I am 100% confident in our product. It really is a great upgrade and it paves the way for many more exciting performance upgrades in the future!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

Great information! May have a huge impact on my decision. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PeteA3 (Dec 3, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

I'm just curious, but which version of the OEM pump are you getting from the manufacturer? And what is the difference in the pumps between H and J? It probably doesn't matter as you totally rework or replace the internals anyways.


_Modified by PeteA3 at 10:32 PM 7/19/2007_


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## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
See what happens when I go out of town! The marketing material gets all out of whack! 7 microns is not a tolerance, it is something else. Either way it shouldn't be on any marketing material. Please ignore. I am not going to give away our actual tolerances as those are proprietary

Opps...is someone in trouble???


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## TypeR #126 (May 10, 2006)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif For the core and rebuild option.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (TypeR #126)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TypeR #126* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif For the core and rebuild option. 

Not a bad idea...but i think Brett specifically said that they want to start with brnad new cores.


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
Not a bad idea...but i think Brett specifically said that they want to start with brnad new cores.

intially, yes. he alluded to exploring the possibility of an exchange program in the future.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
intially, yes. he alluded to exploring the possibility of an exchange program in the future.

that would def be a good idea and bring in a bit more interest from people that are gonna do it in their basements firtst


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
that would def be a good idea and bring in a bit more interest from people that are gonna do it in their basements firtst


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## kwokTTQ (Apr 13, 2003)

a little history is appropriate...
http://www.designnews.com/article/CA109943.html
http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/030930.html
mits & vag have entered into several technology license agreements
the hitachi pump is unique precision mass produced component
"long term" reliability within v. wide range of driving environments ie: climatic, geographic and total operating/component service life, is extremely difficult to achieve...
FYI coldstart AND frequent restart following lubricant draindown is critical test of residual engine lubricant bearing film/residual lubricity on fuel pump cam lobe(s) surface ie: cam lobe surface hardness/penetration is not only issue! *suitability of engine lubricant is critical for longterm reliability/safety of fuel pump*
increased fuel pump displacement ideally requires requisite increase of cam lobe width and/or roller/follower in place of thimble for realworld statutory engine/drivetrain/emissions/life safety compliance
making the sleeve/piston to have appropriate rms micro finished densified contact surfaces is not the hard part ... realworld certification and driving are the bears...



_Modified by kwokTTQ at 4:42 AM 7-21-2007_


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## DaiGiba (Jul 21, 2007)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*

Question about APR software using non-APR pump:
Would APR still provide the upgrade reflash to existing customers who uses a competitor pump or are we tied to using your pump if we want software support?


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## bigmak (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_ 7 microns is not a tolerance, it is something else.

rofl i was so freaking confused as to (a) why a tolerance would be given and (b) how you got two components within one fifth of a thou haha...


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (omni1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *omni1* »_

Not if you want to run Water Meth, like a majority of us would like to, but unfortunately cannot because this plastic stuff will crack.

If you say so...I have been running it now for about 3 months and it will not crack anything. BTW I need a fuel pump like this one because I have a massive fuel cut at mid to high rpm range.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: APR 2.0T FSI Fuel Pump (bigmak)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bigmak* »_
rofl I was so freaking confused as to (a) why a tolerance would be given and (b) how you got two components within one fifth of a thou haha...


Plunger fits for gasoline and diesel pumps are held within .000025" diametric clearance and it is extremely expensive to do this particularly at low volumes. And by low volume I mean less than 50,000 pieces. APR is not charging enough, especially if they are not charging for a core.


----------



## smartyin (Jul 24, 2005)

hi keith
i am planning to get a apr fuel pump before i go for the stage 3 for my B7 in the future. As i know stage 3 will include the fuel pump, so will you deduct the price of the fuel pump from the original price of the stage 3 kit for the buyer who have bought the fuel pump before......


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

Hey Keith, quick question i hope hasnt been covered yet. When i was talking with you at waterfest about the pump. You said the car will run a little funny until i get the pump specific software. Well i have stock program also, how will the car run if i put the car back in stock mode with the apr pump still fitted???


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_Hey Keith, quick question i hope hasnt been covered yet. When i was talking with you at waterfest about the pump. You said the car will run a little funny until i get the pump specific software. Well i have stock program also, how will the car run if i put the car back in stock mode with the apr pump still fitted???

i'd like to know the same... are all three (stock, 93, 100) programs that i have going to be recalibrated for the new fuel pump?


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

another great question


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Branman)*

i'm ready to order this thing, i just need questions answered first...


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

i already ordered one, order first ask questions later...lol


----------



## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_i already ordered one, order first ask questions later...lol








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Let us know how it goes...I plan to upgrade the fuel pump sometime too.


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (sasha18T)*

the APR guys must be swamped.....


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 19, 2006)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_the APR guys must be swamped.....

The APR guys currently only consist of Keith and I, lol. We have been non-stop for about two days now. All the other guys should be back tomorrow. Keith and I are trying to do our best with getting to the phones and answering e-mails, but it is definitely not a simple task, haha. I hope that everyone that went out to WF13 had a great time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I had a blast and it was awesome to meet some of the APR staff. Special thanks to Keith for taking so much time to talk shop with me!


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
The APR guys currently only consist of Keith and I, lol. We have been non-stop for about two days now. All the other guys should be back tomorrow. Keith and I are trying to do our best with getting to the phones and answering e-mails, but it is definitely not a simple task, haha. I hope that everyone that went out to WF13 had a great time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

def was a good time


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I had a blast and it was awesome to meet some of the APR staff. Special thanks to Keith for taking so much time to talk shop with me!

I talked to several tuners and Keith was very informative. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Arin)*

IMO APR def has their ish together.... more so then any other chip tuning company...


_Modified by mwwhonda at 5:16 PM 7-24-2007_


----------



## lowet (May 20, 2007)

Goin BT but im waiting to see whats gonna happen, so in the mean time im putting one on and am going to most likely re-sell it once i go bt..(just about every new bt kit comes with a fuel delivery solution)


----------



## Chris164935 (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_thats 25hp Crank! Im not saying I'll buy the Apr kit for 3500, Im saying I will make 450-500 whp for under 4k this winter.










No ****... Can I get a PM when the write up for how this will be accomplished is started. And, I hope you're not planning on it being reliable as well. Or maybe this is not a 2.0T motor you are referring to?








To stay on topic, I was wondering how much would the pump cost by itself? My friend and I have some plans that don't involve the stock Motronic engine management.
Also, would it be possible to run 2 of these inline (or on 2 separate fuel lines that merge to one rail) to flow for more hp than 500?


_Modified by Chris164935 at 2:55 AM 7-25-2007_


----------



## x9t (Sep 19, 2005)

The APR pump is 1000 bucks or so.. its on another thread.
JT


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Chris164935)*

people continue to overlook the obvious...
*"cheap, fast, reliable..... pick two"*


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_people continue to overlook the obvious...
*"cheap, fast, reliable..... pick two"*

dude how many times are you gonna post that, its like the 3rd post when you say the same thing. 
yes that saying is old and is fairly common knowledge to most
yes it is true in our case with the 2.0t
no its not always true and highly depends on what is cheap to you, how fast is fast (14s,13s,12s) and how reliable is reliable (is breaking axles considered reliable etc )......so quit flooding thread with the same old thing


----------



## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

I'm buying one, I don't care if it's $1,000. I have APR software and APR TBE and if this is like their products I have bought from them in the past, then it's going to be a quality product. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'm also going to be buying their intercooler kt as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mkvgtiblk06 (Mar 2, 2007)

I also have their chip and going to buy the fuel pump


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
dude how many times are you gonna post that, its like the 3rd post when you say the same thing. 
yes that saying is old and is fairly common knowledge to most
yes it is true in our case with the 2.0t
no its not always true and highly depends on what is cheap to you, how fast is fast (14s,13s,12s) and how reliable is reliable (is breaking axles considered reliable etc )......so quit flooding thread with the same old thing

do i look like an idiot? take a look through the thread and show me how i'm flooding the thread with the same post.... each time i've said this, i've removed the previous...
people complain about spending 1k on a fuel pump that is manufactured to ridiculous tolerances, and bench tested, yet will spend the same money on an exhaust system that is thrown together.


_Modified by mwwhonda at 10:00 AM 7-25-2007_


----------



## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_
people complain about spending 1k on a fuel pump that is manufactured within rediculously tight clearances, yet will spend the same money on an exhaust system that is thrown together.
_Modified by mwwhonda at 9:49 AM 7-25-2007_

lol, nicely put http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

i already ordered one of these. With all the quality products apr comes out with, i have no doubt it will be money well spent!


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_i already ordered one of these. With all the quality products apr comes out with, i have no doubt it will be money well spent!
 
The Pump works well with ZERO issues including NO FUEL CUT LOL







Bob.G


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (mwwhonda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_
do i look like an idiot? take a look through the thread and show me how i'm flooding the thread with the same post.... each time i've said this, i've removed the previous...

i dont know, never seen ya. do you ?









_Quote, originally posted by *mwwhonda* »_
people complain about spending 1k on a fuel pump that is manufactured to ridiculous tolerances, and bench tested, yet will spend the same money on an exhaust system that is thrown together.

_Modified by mwwhonda at 10:00 AM 7-25-2007_

yes which is what i said on the very first page of this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_fellas you are complaining with 1100$ for the pump, many of you spent more than that on exhausts which produce half the power this pump and noise. 1100$ for 25hp and 30ft-lbs is not bad in my book......and it is going to be a perfect solution for those who in fact dont want to go the k04 or the s3 route and stay with stock turbo and stage2.


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
The Pump works well with ZERO issues including NO FUEL CUT LOL







Bob.G

when are you going back to the track?


----------



## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

chill folks


----------



## TheBox (Jul 20, 2003)

*Re: (iThread)*

DYNO????


----------



## AMI Motorsports (Jan 31, 2002)

*Re: (TheBox)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif To the crew at APR, they have an amazing engineering team to back all their products.


----------



## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_
dude how many times are you gonna post that, its like the 3rd post when you say the same thing. 
yes that saying is old and is fairly common knowledge to most
yes it is true in our case with the 2.0t
no its not always true and highly depends on what is cheap to you, how fast is fast (14s,13s,12s) and how reliable is reliable (is breaking axles considered reliable etc )......so quit flooding thread with the same old thing

LOL! I agree. Fast, Cheap Blaha, blah...Please put a filter on this phrase vwvortex







!


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 29, 2006)

*Re: (sasha18T)*

i dont know if i'm reposting but by the end of the 2nd page i was a little annoyed everyone's complaining about the price of the pump... when in reality, that 1k isnt bad for our pump. At the VW dealers around here an OEM fuel pump is about 500 bucks. so if you consider how many of these APR built then tested it really isnt a crazy price. I myself expected it to be about 850-900.
APR FTW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (ckymike)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ckymike* »_i dont know if i'm reposting but by the end of the 2nd page i was a little annoyed everyone's complaining about the price of the pump... when in reality, that 1k isnt bad for our pump. At the VW dealers around here an OEM fuel pump is about 500 bucks. so if you consider how many of these APR built then tested it really isnt a crazy price. I myself expected it to be about 850-900.
APR FTW http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks for the kind words everyone!
Stay tuned for releases of the quality control, assembly and testing procedures and data!


----------



## Sincity (May 17, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Damm Keith. Go to sleep! It is late on your side of the country.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Sincity)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sincity* »_Damm Keith. Go to sleep! It is late on your side of the country.









no rest for the wicked! or rediculously committed and in love with their job


----------



## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
no rest for the wicked! or rediculously committed and in love with their job









I was just gonna say the same thing! You take your job Seriously! Are you still on the clock when you answer questions on vortex??? You should be


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
I was just gonna say the same thing! You take your job Seriously! Are you still on the clock when you answer questions on vortex??? You should be









I do get to enjoy the "benefits" of salary








Its all by choice but overtime would be nice


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
I do get to enjoy the "benefits" of salary








Its all by choice but overtime would be nice










So you're EXEMPT... Exempt from extra pay. :-(


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_

So you're EXEMPT... Exempt from extra pay. :-(
lol


----------



## dieseldub1 (Jun 15, 2003)

lol, i donno but keith always responds to IM's within 24hrs, never have i waited, damn man is like a robot lol.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

I HATE APR WITH A PASSION!!!!
You're going to make me spend the grand aren't you????
You suck.
Looks like next years tax return is already partially spent...sob's.
*the above is said with extreme sarcasm...I love apr and really really want the pump.*


_Modified by NoRegrets78 at 4:43 PM 8-1-2007_


----------



## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_I HATE APR WITH A PASSION!!!!
You're going to make me spend the grand aren't you????
You suck.
Looks like next years tax return is already partially spent...sob's.

Ouch. I think you should IM them, or call man! Im sure they'll work with you, this isent EIP. This is a respected tuner.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

NO NO NO nothing is wrong my my car LOL!
I was saying they're doing such a good job with this pump and providing information that it's making me want one! I LOVE APR!


----------



## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*

Oh..well sarcasm is hard to type.


----------



## NoRegrets78 (Jul 6, 2006)

Yea my bad...edited!


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (NoRegrets78)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NoRegrets78* »_Yea my bad...edited!

you guys are hilarious!









This is thread is good times...


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

Hey keith, when the pump is installed will i still be able to put the car back in stock mode and drive normal like if i had to take it to the dealer???


----------



## mwwVW (Mar 31, 2003)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_Hey keith, when the pump is installed will i still be able to put the car back in stock mode and drive normal like if i had to take it to the dealer???

the stock program needs to be re calibrated as well. i spoke to keith about this, and as it was explained to me is that there is a certain algorithm used by the computer to determine how much fuel is in the rail at any given time...this algorithm needs to be adjusted accordingly due to the larger volumes of fuel the pump now supplies per rotation...


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

awesome thanks for the quick response


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

Bump for a countdown, 3 days (crossing fingers)


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (Branman)*

3 days thats it?!
Mine better get here for the weekend install


----------



## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (lnferno)*

Their is absolutely no way that a front wheel drive GTI will even be driveable with 400 WHP let alone 520WHP. This is getting ridiculous! I am seriously just gonna buy an Audi S4. That way I will have all the horsepower I want and be able to drive the car as well!


----------



## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (2lowcoupedoor)*

I second that! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

$1100 us dollars for 25 crank horsepower? So that basically equals out to 8 WHP? No, defenitely not worth it in my book!


----------



## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (NoahsGTI)*

Incredible you have been completely brainwashed by Keith and APR's crappy sales tactics!


----------



## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (maitino)*

dude, wtf is your problem? you paid almost the same amount for the same thing practically. APR's design is just better than the competition, because it's better than OEM(in design and performance)...you have to pay $ for that. If you don't want to pay than go buy other companies stuff, but don't post dumb crap like this that make you look like a total ass http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by ItalianGLI at 3:29 AM 8-22-2007_


----------



## dummy (Apr 14, 2003)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_Incredible you have been completely brainwashed by Keith and APR's crappy sales tactics!









LOL.
you have their ECU flash according to your sig. does this mean you fell for them, too?


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

wow this really got out of hand fast...LOL


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_$1100 us dollars for 25 crank horsepower? So that basically equals out to 8 WHP? No, defenitely not worth it in my book!









Not including price to ship, weld, and install, you paid:
Neuspeed Downpipe Back Exhaust: $1000 = 1 hp
ATP Downpipe: $370 = 25 hp _BUT YOU ADDED A CAT!_
Magnaflow High flow Cat: $100 _(price for universal cat. You High Flow is probably more)_ = -15 hp _Negates benifits to catless downpipe. *insert packman loosing noise here*_
Total: $1470 for 10 - 20 hp. _Thats only if you added the APR stage 2 software_
Then you bought a Shrick cam. I'm sure that was expensive.Couple Hundred bucks for 0 to -10 hp. 
Good Job! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 










_Modified by Arin at 8:28 AM 8-22-2007_


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_$1100 us dollars for 25 crank horsepower? So that basically equals out to 8 WHP? No, defenitely not worth it in my book!









dude the main goal of this pump is to get rid of fuel cuts and they are also able to extract more power from the stock turbo - which is good.
so what that it is 1100 for 35bhp and 25 torque
how much did u pay for these things that are "worth it in your book" added up?








Neuspeed P-Flo CAI 5hp
Neuspeed Downpipe Back Exhaust System 2hp
Neuspeed Turbo Discharge Kit 
Neuspeed Intercooler Pipe
Neuspeed Power Pulley Kit 2hp
Clear Side Markers. rice hp

my point is to everyone their own, and the power of choice. dont want it -> dont buy it -> dont bash it with your very much less then educated/uninformed bs. afterall you are to smart for even the simplest of VF instructions for the motor mount with 3 bolts


----------



## five0vw (May 21, 2004)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

I have all the intercoolers that Maitano has plus a roof IC, rear bumper IC and I even have the WMIC (Windshield mounted Inter Cooler.)







I had to say something. 
Too much hate not enough facts. Buy the Pump and dyno before you complain. There are no secrets here, this pump has many purposes. No more fuel cuts, and extra Hp and Trq. To you it is not worth the $$, to us it is.


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (five0vw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *five0vw* »_I have all the intercoolers that Maitano has plus a roof IC, rear bumper IC and I even have the WMIC (Windshield mounted Inter Cooler.)







I had to say something. 
Too much hate not enough facts. Buy the Pump and dyno before you complain. There are no secrets here, this pump has many purposes. No more fuel cuts, and extra Hp and Trq. To you it is not worth the $$, to us it is. 

counting days


----------



## five0vw (May 21, 2004)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

Found this and thought it was funny. 
This was posted by someone that is so worried about paying $ for little HP. 







It dont want to be a di*k just want you to know that you have failed.

_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_Sweet! From what I have heard from engineers an intercooler may add a little horsepower but mostly it just prevents heatsoak like you said!


----------



## ItalianGLI (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: (five0vw)*

nice


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

@ maitino


----------



## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

Actually I installed everything myself and yes I do have an arc welder at my house!


----------



## volcomska (Mar 7, 2006)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_Their is absolutely no way that a front wheel drive GTI will even be driveable with 400 WHP let alone 520WHP. This is getting ridiculous! I am seriously just gonna buy an Audi S4. That way I will have all the horsepower I want and be able to drive the car as well!









If it wasnt driveable, people wouldnt sell/buy kits for it. 
PS:
please, please buy an S4 and start posting all your "mods" and "info" in s4 forums http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
KTHNXBYE


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (volcomska)*


_Quote, originally posted by *volcomska* »_
If it wasnt driveable, people wouldnt sell/buy kits for it. 
PS:
please, please buy an S4 and start posting all your "mods" and "info" in s4 forums http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
KTHNXBYE

yeah buy an s4 so i can steal your AWD and your clear corners


----------



## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)




----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

back on topic, talked to [email protected] yeasterday ...... pumps should be going out on the 25th. 3days


_Modified by prodigymb at 11:42 AM 8-22-2007_


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

there going out on a sat.????


----------



## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_there going out on a sat.????








yeah i jsut saw that oo, i guess friday then......i didnt even look at the calendar


----------



## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

it must be Friday cus I was told by keith 24th so we shall see


----------



## bluelagoon1 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_$1100 us dollars for 25 crank horsepower? So that basically equals out to 8 WHP? No, defenitely not worth it in my book!









what sort of twisted calculator are you using? AT MOST, fwd cars lose 17%, so 25*.83 (100-.17) = 20.5whp. no wonder you don't know what you're talking about


----------



## TypeR #126 (May 10, 2006)

*Re: (bluelagoon1)*

Well, that and drivetrain loss is a fixed amount, it doesn't rise with hp. Bare in mind also that these increases are over a certain rpm range and not across the board. Still a nice 20-25 hp bump over even 1K rpm would be very noticeable and, in the case of the stock turbo, happen low enough in the rev range to be very usable day to day.
I"m still having a hard time swallowing APR's price point, but I'm holding out hope that they will follow through with the core exchange idea eventually.


----------



## shue333 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_Actually I installed everything myself and yes I do have an arc welder at my house!









of course you do


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (shue333)*

Couple Questions? I was wondering some people stated that this pump would help a stock set-up, if that is the case then why would you need APR software to run the pump on a chipped car? Basically I need a fuel pump because mine took a crap because it was overworked and I was wondering whether to get this pump or wait till VF sells their separately.
Thanx in advance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

You need to have software that is modifed to properly control the larger displacement pump. you could just bolt it on, however the pump will have overshoot and undershoot issues controlling rail pressures. 
In addition to this you want the file to be more agressive to take advantage of the high flow pump. Every file out there is holding back because the stock pump limits midrange torque.


----------



## AutotechRD (Aug 19, 2004)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

Are you sure that you "overworked" the stock pump? Is it possible that you have the dreaded fuel pump lobe wear problem instead?


----------



## smd3 (Aug 5, 2001)

*Re: (AutotechRD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutotechRD* »_Are you sure that you "overworked" the stock pump? Is it possible that you have the dreaded fuel pump lobe wear problem instead?

Check out this guys other posts, I don't think he knows what is going on. 
I'd be pretty worried if VW was releasing Farenheit's with soft cams anyway, they're pretty new.

I didn't see the new pump listed on APR's page, will it be up soon?


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (AutotechRD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutotechRD* »_Are you sure that you "overworked" the stock pump? Is it possible that you have the dreaded fuel pump lobe wear problem instead?

Well what we found is that gas is in the oil, which I was told that happens when the fuel pump goes out. Basically I'm trying to diagnose the problem with my car over the phone with a friend of mine that worked on my car in Florida. Which we pretty much narrowed it down to the fuel pump. I am awaiting Vag-Com I ordered so I could scan it and run some logs to send over to him so he could get a better idea on what happened with some physical evidence. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (smd3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smd3* »_
Check out this guys other posts, I don't think he knows what is going on. 

 
How about you mind you business and quit worrying about me. Your right I don't sit on my ass all day and research about Volkswagen's so no I don't know everything.


----------



## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

Hit my first fuel cut today.
Cant wait to get this in!
Ship it faster!


----------



## bluelagoon1 (Apr 21, 2005)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_
Well what we found is that gas is in the oil, which I was told that happens when the fuel pump goes out. Basically I'm trying to diagnose the problem with my car over the phone with a friend of mine that worked on my car in Florida. Which we pretty much narrowed it down to the fuel pump. I am awaiting Vag-Com I ordered so I could scan it and run some logs to send over to him so he could get a better idea on what happened with some physical evidence. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i believe this is also what happens when the cam lobes wear as well. gas is able to get into the oil. check out the write ups on it.


----------



## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (bluelagoon1)*

This is the egg before the chicken. 
Gas leaks from fuel pump at an excessive rate and causes oil dilution. 
oil dilution is worse at the source of the gas contamination (pump tappett)
This causes the excessive cam wear. 
All the pumps will leak a certain rate, the oil has to handle some contamination. Most of the gas is evaporated/consumed in the PCV system back to the intake.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_This is the egg before the chicken. 
Gas leaks from fuel pump at an excessive rate and causes oil dilution. 
oil dilution is worse at the source of the gas contamination (pump tappett)
This causes the excessive cam wear. 


The cam wear issue is not related to the pump leaking it is defective cams. This is stated by both VW and Audi and the fix is a revised camshaft. They specifically state not to replace the pump at the time of the cam replacement.


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## enginerd (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Yes, however if there is significant gas in the oil and your cam is wearing. 
The worn cam did not cause the gas to leak. 
Chicken before Egg. 
The change to a harder more wear resistant cam lobe material is a fix for the oil dilution issue IMO.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (enginerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *enginerd* »_Yes, however if there is significant gas in the oil and your cam is wearing. 
The worn cam did not cause the gas to leak. 
Chicken before Egg. 
The change to a harder more wear resistant cam lobe material is a fix for the oil dilution issue IMO. 

Based on what though? I understand you work with high pressure pumps, but how do you feel that you are right about the failure and VW/Audi is wrong?
By not replacing the pumps and allowing potential complete engine failure they are looking at losing a lot more money then just replacing the cams and fuel pumps at the same time. Heck its no more labor the pump is out to do the cams. All the bulletins though specifically state not to replace the pump, and any fuel pressure related bulletins also specifically state not to replace the pump before contacting Audi. The pump is the cheap fix if they were a problem that is the route they would go.


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Based on what though? I understand you work with high pressure pumps, but how do you feel that you are right about the failure and VW/Audi is wrong?
By not replacing the pumps and allowing potential complete engine failure they are looking at losing a lot more money then just replacing the cams and fuel pumps at the same time. Heck its no more labor the pump is out to do the cams. All the bulletins though specifically state not to replace the pump, and any fuel pressure related bulletins also specifically state not to replace the pump before contacting Audi. The pump is the cheap fix if they were a problem that is the route they would go.

See and the problem im having I can not switch my car to stock mode so I could at least bring it in to get it check out.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_
See and the problem im having I can not switch my car to stock mode so I could at least bring it in to get it check out.

Can't you just unhook the battery and it will go into default mode ??(aka stock )







Bob.G


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
Can't you just unhook the battery and it will go into default mode ??(aka stock )







Bob.G

I unhooked the cables and touch positive and negative to reset everything and my flashloader will not read to see what mode I am in.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: (brandon0221)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brandon0221* »_
I unhooked the cables and touch positive and negative to reset everything and my flashloader will not read to see what mode I am in.
 
Maybe someone can chime in that knows GIAC , but it still should automatically go into default mode when the battery is disconnected and most of the time chip tuners set that with STOCK mode. 
You could prob double check this from the boost levels your showing and dont really need the flash loader







Bob.G



_Modified by rracerguy717 at 3:32 PM 8-24-2007_


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (rracerguy717)*

GIAC does not go back into stock mode when the battery is disconnected, I am overnighting you a flashloader now Brandon.


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_GIAC does not go back into stock mode when the battery is disconnected, I am overnighting you a flashloader now Brandon.

Ok...Ok... cool


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

any word on the pump shipments (crossing fingers)


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_any word on the pump shipments (crossing fingers)


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## [email protected] (Apr 14, 2005)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_any word on the pump shipments (crossing fingers)


still testing, making sure the run in is perfect. I was told the delay shouldn't be longer than the end of the week but I'm hoping they will start to leave tomorrow!


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

sounds good, yeah prolly not a good idea to send out a bunch of 1000 dollar pumps if there not perfect. Im still waiting on them damn stickers too lol, i cant win


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

still testing, making sure the run in is perfect. I was told the delay shouldn't be longer than the end of the week but I'm hoping they will start to leave tomorrow!









bump for an update http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (Branman)*

APR http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

but you are using apr????


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_APR http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
Remember that time you had Shrick Cams in your signature? Oh, you don't... you took it out... Good job! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by Arin at 1:17 AM 9-1-2007_


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

Take a good look buddy I never took it out! The schrick cam for the 2.0T are available at many different tuning shops! I love messing with you!


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## sactown_a3 (Nov 15, 2006)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!
Remember that time you had Shrick Cams in your signature? Oh, you don't... you took it out... Good job! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

We also don't have 93 Oct in CA...









_Quote, originally posted by *maitino sig* »_ APR 93/100 Octane Software, Neuspeed P-Flo CAI, ATP 3" Downpipe, Magna Flow High Flow Catalytic Converter, Neuspeed Downpipe Back Exhaust System, Forge Twintercooler. Intercooler, Neuspeed Turbo Discharge Kit, Neuspeed Intercooler Pipe, Neuspeed Power Pulley Kit, Schrick Cam, Forge Diverter Valve, Vf Side Motor Mount, Vf Pendelum Motor Mount, NS Boost Gauge,NGK BKR7EIX, Clear Side Markers.


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (sactown_a3)*

All you have to do is mix 100 octane with 91 octane and you can easily get 93 octane!







Also their are several gas stations around my house that sell 93/95 octane! You dont make sense!


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_All you have to do is mix 100 octane with 91 octane and you can easily get 93 octane!







Also their are several gas stations around my house that sell 93/95 octane! You dont make sense!










Well lets see then how about you call 949-496-3763 that is the number to Chevron by your house LOL... Oh BTW no gas stations around San Juan Capistrano have 93 oct. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Also what mix ration do you use to get 93oct?


_Modified by brandon0221 at 10:30 PM 9-1-2007_


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (brandon0221)*

Newport Beach CA performance fuels station sells 93,95, and 100 octane. I mix 4 gallons of 100 octane which can be purchased at several gas stations in Orange County and 10 gallons of 91 octane to get 93 octane! Do you live in Orange County? You have no idea what gas stations are in my local area!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (maitino)*

Ahhh, there's nothing quite like mixing a few $8+ gallons of 100 octane with 91 to get good ole custom blended 93. You rich Californians have it made! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

Are you being sarcastic? It is not that hard to blend different octanes to get the number you desire! I have an octane book that I received from the performance fuels station that has all the information in regards to octane blending! You guys dont have different octanes out their? I am guessing you are being sarcastic!


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Ahhh, there's nothing quite like mixing a few $8+ gallons of 100 octane with 91 to get good ole custom blended 93. You rich Californians have it made! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

By the way the 100 octane that I purchase is currently $5.88 per gallon! I do have a lot of money but that is because I have worked hard for it, is their something wrong with that? Judging from the way you talk about APR's products and how you are going to buy the $8,000 + turbo kit, I would say it soundslike you are the one who has all the money! You must be a really unhappy person! Cheer up buddy!


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_Newport Beach CA performance fuels station sells 93,95, and 100 octane. I mix 4 gallons of 100 octane which can be purchased at several gas stations in Orange County and 10 gallons of 91 octane to get 93 octane! Do you live in Orange County? You have no idea what gas stations are in my local area!
















You sped all that time and money for an extra 5HP now thats







.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_Are you being sarcastic? It is not that hard to blend different octanes to get the number you desire! I have an octane book that I received from the performance fuels station that has all the information in regards to octane blending! You guys dont have different octanes out their? I am guessing you are being sarcastic!









woah octane mixing boook. go maitino!


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

Knock it off both of you. This topic isn't about mixing gas.


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (iThread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iThread* »_Knock it off both of you. This topic isn't about mixing gas.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (iThread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iThread* »_Knock it off both of you. This topic isn't about mixing gas.


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

*Re: (iThread)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iThread* »_Knock it off both of you. This topic isn't about mixing gas.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (Branman)*

How about this pump though? LOL


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

not shipping until Friday....apr says at the lastest, just like the 24th.. Waiting and hoping for a package to show up


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## TypeR #126 (May 10, 2006)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

LOL, I guess Friday is the new two weeks.


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (TypeR #126)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TypeR #126* »_LOL, I guess Friday is the new two weeks.









X2 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (TypeR #126)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TypeR #126* »_LOL, I guess Friday is the new two weeks.









i hope not


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

*Re: (prodigymb)*

TTT for an update.....anyone.....bueller.....bueller


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Branman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Branman* »_TTT for an update.....anyone.....bueller.....bueller

X2. Anyone have this or the Autotech pump yet? Im curious to see how far the k03S can be pushed....Although I think Im gonna skip the pump, and just get the STG3 by VF.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
X2. Anyone have this or the Autotech pump yet? Im curious to see how far the k03S can be pushed....Although I think Im gonna skip the pump, and just get the STG3 by VF.









Nice.
Still waiting on the APR pump. Hopefully I get it by the end of the week. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
Nice.
Still waiting on the APR pump. Hopefully I get it by the end of the week. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Awesome! Let us know how you like it! I'd love to push the k03S to its limits, problem is with the engine mods I've done already...when I look at the receipts, they add up to about $2,000 less than the Stg3 costs.


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (sasha18T)*

Really?
When I total everything up I don't even go above $3k and I have chip/DP/ic/fp/dv


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

does anyone know if they shipped them, the card was charged last week


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_Really?
When I total everything up I don't even go above $3k and I have chip/DP/ic/fp/dv

add: Pully ($199), Intake($200), Engine Cover($280), GIAC Flashloader ($150), 3 VF Engine mounts($600), ect. It adds up quick.


_Modified by sasha18T at 12:39 PM 9-4-2007_


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (sasha18T)*

Me too! I spoke to the guys at Neuspeed and they said their turbo kit for the MKV GTI will be out within the next 2 months!


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
add: Pully ($199), Intake($200), Engine Cover($280), GIAC Flashloader ($150), 3 VF Engine mounts($600), ect. It adds up quick.

_Modified by sasha18T at 12:39 PM 9-4-2007_


Yeah but those are extra things not related to the full BT upgrade... plus they add no power.


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## maitino (Jul 25, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*

And how do you know this?


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## Arin (Jun 27, 2002)

*Re: (maitino)*


_Quote, originally posted by *maitino* »_And how do you know this?









I'm an engineer for NASA, helped invent the 2.0TFSI, and I have a HUGE one.


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
I'm an engineer for NASA, helped invent the 2.0TFSI, and I have a HUGE one.

you must work for APR now


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## shue333 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
I'm an engineer for NASA, helped invent the 2.0TFSI, and I have a HUGE one.

sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_

Yeah but those are extra things not related to the full BT upgrade... plus they add no power.









Are you kidding!? VF mounts are a Must for even a chipped car in my opinion. Intake..There are atleast 20 dynos showing gains (EVOM's), Pullys show 5lb/tq increase. GIAC race file should gain atleast 10-15whp.


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
Are you kidding!? VF mounts are a Must for even a chipped car in my opinion. Intake..There are atleast 20 dynos showing gains (EVOM's), Pullys show 5lb/tq increase. GIAC race file should gain atleast 10-15whp. 

Show me one of those 20 dynos, comparing back to stock, that show a gain that was not done by the manufacturer or a distributor? If you come up with one please post it in a sep. thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## brandon0221 (Mar 7, 2007)

*Re: (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_
you must work for APR now


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## sasha18T (Aug 12, 2002)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Spongebobnopants* »_
Show me one of those 20 dynos, comparing back to stock, that show a gain that was not done by the manufacturer or a distributor? If you come up with one please post it in a sep. thread. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Do your own research. I did mine.


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## 2.0Tgti (Dec 20, 2006)

*Re: (Arin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arin* »_
I'm an engineer for NASA, helped invent the 2.0TFSI, and I have a HUGE one.


I didnt read all 8 pages of this thread but this is one of the best posts I've seen in a while.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (sasha18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sasha18T* »_
Do your own research. I did mine. 

Not trying to start a pissing match, but i did research and came up dry. Are you are saying you researched on what sales/marketing literature told you?
After spending over $500 on intakes, I am not convinced anything other than a more efficient filter will help until you move to a larger turbo. Now that I have the FMIC on, the intake makes even less of a diff. If you have data to prove this wrong please share. That might make me fell better about the money I spent.


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## Branman (Oct 6, 2004)

BUMP for an update


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

Intakes do alot for the 2.0t, well ever since we installed one on my friends 2.0 after we got it apr chipped, it has so much more flow now that stock fuel pump can't cut it he was running lean and that was before the downpipe was installed so that says alot. 
which also brings me to a question when the hell are you sending out the fuel pumps keith? according to you they should have sent it about 1-2weeks ago







. Your killin us here


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## Spongebobnopants (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Nitro7853* »_Intakes do alot for the 2.0t, well ever since we installed one on my friends 2.0 after we got it apr chipped, it has so much more flow now that stock fuel pump can't cut it he was running lean and that was before the downpipe was installed so that says alot.

Your were comparing this to a stock intake with stock filter, right?


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## redwedding (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: (Nitro7853)*

actually according to keith they were supposed to be shipped the 24th of august


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (redwedding)*


_Quote, originally posted by *redwedding* »_actually according to keith they were supposed to be shipped the 24th of august


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## Nitro7853 (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: (Spongebobnopants)*

yes and It really made a HUGE DIFFERENCE


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## VW03Getta (Jan 27, 2007)

where are the links to order these pumps?


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (VW03Getta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VW03Getta* »_where are the links to order these pumps?
there are no links, you have to contact APR by phone to place an order for the pump


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## [email protected] (Feb 9, 2001)

*Re: (prodigymb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *prodigymb* »_there are no links, you have to contact APR by phone to place an order for the pump

http://www.goapr.com/VW/produc...html#


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## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2007)

*Re: (VW03Getta)*

any dynos yet, on stock turbo?


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## asylum (Jan 11, 2000)

*Re: (Chicago.VW.Sales)*

apparently they are finally shipping
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3461254


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## VW03Getta (Jan 27, 2007)

thanks for the quick replies.


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## prodigymb (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
http://www.goapr.com/VW/produc...html#

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif added it


----------

