# Arteon 2020



## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

*Any rumors yet about changes for the 2020 US models?*

Number one on my wish list would be a DSG transmission, since manual seems to be a no-go.

What goodies would you like to see added to the US models?


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

av_audi said:


> Number one on my wish list would be a DSG transmission, since manual seems to be a no-go....


they selected the torque converter trans for a reason and would not re-certify the vehicle for the DSG after one year.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

av_audi said:


> DSG transmission


Don't count on that happening


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

a dsg tranny will add complexity and less reliability. Frankly, i dont think its necessary in a car such as the arteon. It will make the shift rougher and would not make this heavy car any more fun to drive. A turbo 6 under the hood would make a bigger difference as far as fun factor.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

The G Man said:


> a dsg tranny will add complexity and less reliability. Frankly, i dont think its necessary in a car such as the arteon. It will make the shift rougher and would not make this heavy car any more fun to drive. A turbo 6 under the hood would make a bigger difference as far as fun factor.


this 

the DSGis great for quick shifts, but with the added power we have the 8 speed is actually the better option. especially if anyone plans on tuning this car, you will want that 8 speed transmission.

i for one would love a turboVR, but that will never happen.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Smaller digital cockpit with full map capability


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

This was my favorite setup for my old Audi, too bad VW doesnt offer that screen. 

https://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/5/2016/06/2018-Audi-S5-digital-dash-02.jpg


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

Rumor is that Offroad mode can be added via VCDS mod.


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## puma1552 (Jul 6, 2012)

window switches that didn't come from the bottom of the barrel?

Could also clean up some of the concave fender mess, but that won't happen. Nice car otherwise, it's growing on me.


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## sdvolksGTi (Sep 17, 2007)

zackiedawg said:


> Rumor is that Offroad mode can be added via VCDS mod.


True, I did it on mine.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

puma1552 said:


> window switches that didn't come from the bottom of the barrel?.....


Never once had any problems with VW window switches. Maybe you need to learn how to avoid activating the pinch protection.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

"The Arteon is already all-new, but it gets the next-gen Car-Net and WiFi. SEL now has 19s standard with SEL Premium getting 20-inch"

https://www.vwvortex.com/news/volks...QyCoT3AQOXTUz3obDWomuWYnlao5AgWjeze9YfKyVPDuQ


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## MikeLowell (Jan 11, 2013)

Interesting! Anyone know exactly what next gen car-net and WiFi entails? I had it free in my Atlas last year after purchasing but didn’t pay for it as I really didn’t use it at all. The kids use my iPhone hotspot in the car when traveling, so not sure we would need the WiFi either?


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

MikeLowell said:


> Interesting! Anyone know exactly what next gen car-net and WiFi entails? I had it free in my Atlas last year after purchasing but didn’t pay for it as I really didn’t use it at all. The kids use my iPhone hotspot in the car when traveling, so not sure we would need the WiFi either?


Car-net is a joke.
you are basically paying for the same things android auto/apple car play does for free. 

but with WAN built in the car, instead of your kids connecting to your phones hotspot, you connect your phone to your cars WAN, then passengers connect to the car instead of your phone. it stream lines the process really, i like it once it is all setup. something i wish we would of had already, especially considering the Arteon is supposed to be VW's flagship car.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> Car-net is a joke. you are basically paying for the same things android auto/apple car play does for free......


Then don't sign up for it, simple. BTW, not everyone has a smartphone....


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

There's more information on VW's media site: https://media.vw.com/releases/1186

_"*Arteon*

The 2020 Volkswagen Arteon is available in four trims: SE, SEL, SEL R-Line, and SEL Premium R-Line. The Arteon features the next-generation Car-Net telematics system and standard in-car Wi-Fi capability when you subscribe to a data plan. SEL models now feature standard 19-inch aluminum-alloy wheels, while SEL Premium models now feature standard 20-inch wheels and R-Line® content."_

So they're eliminating all the "extra" trim levels. There was supposed to be SE, SEL, SEL-P as well as SE R-Line, SEL R-Line, and SEL-P R-Line in 2019 (I don't think all of those variations ever showed up at dealerships) and all were to have 4motion as an option, with SEL-P's getting it standaed. But for 2020, there's only 4 Arteon models if I'm reading this correctly: 
- SE (non-R-Line only)
- SEL (non-R-Line)
- SEL R-Line
- SEL-P R-Line

So no more SE R-Lines (again, not sure if any 2019s actually were made), no SEL-P non-R-Line. 4Motion isn't mentioned, so not sure how that plays out. 

This simplification makes sense. When they announced the Arteon it seemed like WAY too many variations for a niche model. I'd say they could make all Arteons R-Line models; the only difference is the front bumper, the wheel design, and some interior trim (headliner, mostly). I also think it would be an interesting value proposition and differnentiator to make 4motion standard on all Arteons.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> So they're eliminating all the "extra" trim levels. There was supposed to be SE, SEL, SEL-P as well as SE R-Line, SEL R-Line, and SEL-P R-Line in 2019 (I don't think all of those variations ever showed up at dealerships) and all were to have 4motion as an option, with SEL-P's getting it standard. But for 2020, there's only 4 Arteon models



They did build a few SE R-Lines. They were built along with the SEL Premium (non R-Lines) and sent as the third allocation after the SEL R-Lines (second allocation) came in. There are some listed on cars.com and all had the 20" rims (like the SEL R-Lines and certain later build SEL Premium R-Lines).

They are basically eliminating the SE R-Line and SEL Premium (non R-Line) and using the rest as fillers. I think it makes the most sense, but I still like the option to at least do a forced order trim like in the old days. 

I am picking up my SEL Premium (non R-Line) tonight and am very excited as this is no longer available as a trim moving forward! I think the 19" rims from my trim will be the ones that are now on the SEL for 2020. Then the SEL R-Line and SELP R-Line will both have the 20s std.

Only other difference is the wifi which is available in EU as the WLAN module in the headunit. Hopefully they don't upgrade the headunit to the discover pro because that would bum me out a bit, but knowing them they won't because they don't want to encroach on audi base models with smaller screens than the 9.2".


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

Knocking the warranties down to 4 years too. Boo to that. I guess I’m a little more motivated to find a leftover MY19 this fall. 

What is next gen carnet? All the Arteon’s have carnet now, right? I believe the premium is the only model that’ll let you put destinations from your phone into the nav. I assume that won’t be across the board. Is it just adding WiFi?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Taco1933 said:


> Knocking the warranties down to 4 years too. Boo to that. I guess I’m a little more motivated to find a leftover MY19 this fall.
> 
> What is next gen carnet? All the Arteon’s have carnet now, right? I believe the premium is the only model that’ll let you put destinations from your phone into the nav. I assume that won’t be across the board. Is it just adding WiFi?


It adds the WLAN module to the headunit. Before they offered true next gen connectivity, you could only create a hot spot in your car by syncing your phone to the WLAN system and using your phone as the internet connection. This was even though the telematics system technically could support it, but VW had not signed an agreement with anyone (ie verizon) for a data plan option for customers. The only model with this WLAN non internet module in the US was the Atlas SEL/SEL Premium. 

Now all models will have this module, and since they signed the deal with Verizon, you can use your CarNet subscription to get live data in your car as if it is the hotspot. In addition to this, I would imagine (cannot confirm) that there will be added functionality to the app such as the ability to remote start and or control the climate remotely. Something that they have been lacking compared to the competition like hyundai blue link or GMs onstar, for quite some time.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Here is a better summary of changes:

Arteon (SE, SEL, SEL R-Line, SEL Premium R-Line)
•	New next-generation Car-Net telematics system/Wi-Fi 
•	SEL models get 19-inch aluminum-alloy wheels
•	No more SE R-Line or SEL Premium non R-Line trims
•	Reduced warranty from 6/72k to 4/50k (adds 2 years of maintenance)


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## sandwich-chris (Oct 13, 2008)

Does anyone know what colors are available for 2020?


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> .....Hopefully they don't upgrade the headunit to the discover pro because that would bum me out a bit.....


And the hell with the 2020 buyers..... :screwy:


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

ice4life said:


> It adds the WLAN module to the headunit. Before they offered true next gen connectivity, you could only create a hot spot in your car by syncing your phone to the WLAN system and using your phone as the internet connection. This was even though the telematics system technically could support it, but VW had not signed an agreement with anyone (ie verizon) for a data plan option for customers. The only model with this WLAN non internet module in the US was the Atlas SEL/SEL Premium.
> 
> Now all models will have this module, and since they signed the deal with Verizon, you can use your CarNet subscription to get live data in your car as if it is the hotspot. In addition to this, I would imagine (cannot confirm) that there will be added functionality to the app such as the ability to remote start and or control the climate remotely. Something that they have been lacking compared to the competition like hyundai blue link or GMs onstar, for quite some time.


I guess I thought it already included most of that stuff so I’m not too confident I know what carnet does now. How did the SEL-P work in the MY19 if it doesn’t have the WLAN module?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Taco1933 said:


> I guess I thought it already included most of that stuff so I’m not too confident I know what carnet does now. How did the SEL-P work in the MY19 if it doesn’t have the WLAN module?


You're confusing a few things. CarNet and the WLAN system are two separate things. VW makes it even more confusing by calling things that are not CarNet, CarNet. Let me try to clarify:

CarNet App Connect (This is another name for Android Auto/ Apple CarPlay, but meanwhile has absolutely nothing to do with the CarNet telematics system).
CarNet Guide & Inform (This is another name for SiriusXM Travel Link, which is a service that uses the CarNet telematics system to pull in traffic/weather/sports/gas)
CarNet Safe & Secure (This is truly the CarNet telematics system, which uses the phone app to connect to the car for sending nav destinations, and for locking/unlocking)

The CarNet system currently in the 2019 car can basically connect to your phone app and allows you to lock/unlock the car as well as determine location/send destinations to the headunit. There are a few other features, but those are more for the interaction piece with the vehicle. It also provides you with a direct link to roadside assistance (via the wrench button in the headliner), a direct link to the support staff (via the I button in the headliner), and a direct link to emergency services (via the SOS button in the headliner). The emergency services are automatically notified if your airbags are deployed (if your subscription is active). Only SEL Premium models come with a 6 month trial period for some reason.

Now, the addition of the WLAN module in the headunit will allow passengers to stream on the cars newly inserted WiFi network, and the main difference is that the CarNet telematics system can now feed internet, from Verizon, through the car's new WLAN module. It is great for kids who stream Netflix, or also good for people without unlimited data plans who like to stream spotify etc on their phones. 

So the main difference is that you have internet in the car now, which you previous did not.


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## buffym (Jul 11, 2019)

ice4life said:


> You're confusing a few things. CarNet and the WLAN system are two separate things. VW makes it even more confusing by calling things that are not CarNet, CarNet. Let me try to clarify:
> 
> CarNet App Connect (This is another name for Android Auto/ Apple CarPlay, but meanwhile has absolutely nothing to do with the CarNet telematics system).
> CarNet Guide & Inform (This is another name for SiriusXM Travel Link, which is a service that uses the CarNet telematics system to pull in traffic/weather/sports/gas)
> ...


Thank you for the very informative post, ice4life!

Is there a way to disable the CarNet telematics system on the 2019 Arteon completely?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

zackiedawg said:


> Rumor is that Offroad mode can be added via VCDS mod.


What does this do? Change the 4motion distribution?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

buffym said:


> Thank you for the very informative post, ice4life!
> 
> Is there a way to disable the CarNet telematics system on the 2019 Arteon completely?


I am not sure if there is a way to completely disable it, but when the trial is over on the SEL-P (or on SE and SEL where there is no trial), it will go offline until you initiate the service. You will notice the overhead light on the headliner will go from green to nothing.


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## sdvolksGTi (Sep 17, 2007)

ice4life said:


> What does this do? Change the 4motion distribution?


It gives you tire angle, car tilt, and elevation in the infotainment, its like the sport gauges but for offroad


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

sdvolksGTi said:


> It gives you tire angle, car tilt, and elevation in the infotainment, its like the sport gauges but for offroad


Offroad mode is different from the offroad display. The offroad mode can be selected on the Tiguan and Atlas using the rotary knob, but on the EU Passat Alltrack, there is an offroad mode which can be selected on the modes screen using the button we have. I believe it switches the bias and turns on HDC. Not even sure all the modes would fit on the 8" display since they pretty much all get the discover pro 9.2" display overseas.


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## sdvolksGTi (Sep 17, 2007)

ice4life said:


> Offroad mode is different from the offroad display. The offroad mode can be selected on the Tiguan and Atlas using the rotary knob, but on the EU Passat Alltrack, there is an offroad mode which can be selected on the modes screen using the button we have. I believe it switches the bias and turns on HDC. Not even sure all the modes would fit on the 8" display since they pretty much all get the discover pro 9.2" display overseas.


Oh, good to know! I'll to search for that. Thanks for the info


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Offroad mode is different from the offroad display. The offroad mode can be selected on the Tiguan and Atlas using the rotary knob, but on the EU Passat Alltrack, there is an offroad mode which can be selected on the modes screen using the button we have. I believe it switches the bias and turns on HDC. Not even sure all the modes would fit on the 8" display since they pretty much all get the discover pro 9.2" display overseas.


If that’s the digital dash that’s coming to the Arteon, I think I’ll just spend an extra $5k and get an Audi. That isn’t adequate for a $42k MSRP.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Thats the same digital dash as on the B9 A5 minus the google earth. I use to have a S5 and the S5 and the Arteons may look similar but they are very different cars. The A5 is a raw 4 door hatch with stiff suspension and great in the city. The Arteon is almost like a A5 for the grown ups. The ride is more comfortable and it is more of a executive sedan.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Thats the same digital dash as on the B9 A5 minus the google earth. I use to have a S5 and the S5 and the Arteons may look similar but they are very different cars. The A5 is a raw 4 door hatch with stiff suspension and great in the city. The Arteon is almost like a A5 for the grown ups. The ride is more comfortable and it is more of a executive sedan.


The one on the 2019, yeah. It’s pretty close. The one in that picture isn’t though, and that appears to be what VW is moving to across the board. You throw a Honda steering wheel on that, and I’d instantly believe it was an Accord. That’s not great for a car with a $12k higher starting price (and/or priced just $5k under a comparable A4).


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> Thats the same digital dash as on the B9 A5 minus the google earth. I use to have a S5 and the S5 and the Arteons may look similar but they are very different cars. The A5 is a raw 4 door hatch with stiff suspension and great in the city. The Arteon is almost like a A5 for the grown ups. The ride is more comfortable and it is more of a executive sedan.


Very different. The Arteon is MQB based with a transverse powertrain. The A5 has a longitudinal drivetrain.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Taco1933 said:


> The one on the 2019, yeah. It’s pretty close. The one in that picture isn’t though, and that appears to be what VW is moving to across the board. You throw a Honda steering wheel on that, and I’d instantly believe it was an Accord. That’s not great for a car with a $12k higher starting price (and/or priced just $5k under a comparable A4).


Have you seen an accords digital dash in person? The digital dash in the vw is one of the better one in the market, the honda one is a generation behind. The accord digital dash cannot display a map graphic on it and the accord is not even a true hatchback. To buy a comparable option a4, its 8 to 10 thousand dollars more but like I said before, the arteon is a more comfortable car than the a5.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Have you seen an accords digital dash in person? The digital dash in the vw is one of the better one in the market, the honda one is a generation behind. The accord digital dash cannot display a map graphic on it and the accord is not even a true hatchback. To buy a comparable option a4, its 8 to 10 thousand dollars more but like I said before, the arteon is a more comfortable car than the a5.


I’m not really talking about the capabilities of it. I’m just saying that I haven’t seen one of those smaller digital dashes that VW is moving towards that looks like it belongs in a $40k+ car. Maybe they’ll reprogram it for the Arteon and give it a more Audi feel. I hope so. It’s a vain position to have, but I’d rather have a good looking but less functional analog dash than a cheap looking but more functional digital dash. I’d take the Arteon SE’s dash of the Jetta SEL’s easily.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Taco1933 said:


> I’m not really talking about the capabilities of it. I’m just saying that I haven’t seen one of those smaller digital dashes that VW is moving towards that looks like it belongs in a $40k+ car. Maybe they’ll reprogram it for the Arteon and give it a more Audi feel. I hope so. It’s a vain position to have, but I’d rather have a good looking but less functional analog dash than a cheap looking but more functional digital dash. I’d take the Arteon SE’s dash of the Jetta SEL’s easily.





The G Man said:


> Have you seen an accords digital dash in person? The digital dash in the vw is one of the better one in the market, the honda one is a generation behind. The accord digital dash cannot display a map graphic on it and the accord is not even a true hatchback. To buy a comparable option a4, its 8 to 10 thousand dollars more but like I said before, the arteon is a more comfortable car than the a5.





Taco1933 said:


> The one on the 2019, yeah. It’s pretty close. The one in that picture isn’t though, and that appears to be what VW is moving to across the board. You throw a Honda steering wheel on that, and I’d instantly believe it was an Accord. That’s not great for a car with a $12k higher starting price (and/or priced just $5k under a comparable A4).





The G Man said:


> Thats the same digital dash as on the B9 A5 minus the google earth. I use to have a S5 and the S5 and the Arteons may look similar but they are very different cars. The A5 is a raw 4 door hatch with stiff suspension and great in the city. The Arteon is almost like a A5 for the grown ups. The ride is more comfortable and it is more of a executive sedan.



It is a value alignment move. Nothing in the non luxury segment really offers a high quality FULL TFT dash. I mean the Palisade, K900 and Explorer come to mind, but those cars are all relatively expensive in their respective segments. Many offer a large center TFT display with analog gauges on the side, but when it comes to a full screen system, it is reserved typically for the lux brands. 

It is not 100% confirmed they are switching from the 12" unit to the 10" unit, but like I said the configurator already has it. I have had both systems and the 12" is much nicer hands down.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

The difference in between the audi screen and vw’s is so small, i dont see how anyone can say if they cant have the audi screen, then they rather have analog gauges instant the vw’s digital dash.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> The difference in between the audi screen and vw’s is so small, i dont see how anyone can say if they cant have the audi screen, then they rather have analog gauges instant the vw’s digital dash.


Have you seen the Jetta version? It isn’t the same as the Arteon. The Jetta version isn’t anywhere close to the Audi version. 

And that’s my concern.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> The difference in between the audi screen and vw’s is so small, i dont see how anyone can say if they cant have the audi screen, then they rather have analog gauges instant the vw’s digital dash.


I would always choose the Rolex-like VW analog cluster to the cheap Timex-like digital cluster.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

The G Man said:


> The difference in between the audi screen and vw’s is so small, i dont see how anyone can say if they cant have the audi screen, then they rather have analog gauges instant the vw’s digital dash.





Taco1933 said:


> Have you seen the Jetta version? It isn’t the same as the Arteon. The Jetta version isn’t anywhere close to the Audi version.
> 
> And that’s my concern.


There are three different systems (inc Audi) and the newer 10" system is bar-none a lower quality unit:

*Audi Virtual Cockpit (Offers full map with Google earth view)*



















*Original 12" VW Digital Cockpit (Only offers wide map, but more detailed)*


















*
New 10" VW Digital Cockpit (Offers full map capability, but more basic)*


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## T-Tail (Aug 8, 2006)

ice4life said:


> They did build a few SE R-Lines. They were built along with the SEL Premium (non R-Lines) and *sent as the third allocation* after the SEL R-Lines (second allocation) came in. There are some listed on cars.com and all had the 20" rims (like the SEL R-Lines and certain later build SEL Premium R-Lines).
> 
> They are basically eliminating the SE R-Line and SEL Premium (non R-Line) and using the rest as fillers. I think it makes the most sense, but I still like the option to at least do a forced order trim like in the old days.
> 
> ...


Anyone know if more non R-line SEL-P's are on the way? I had planned to wait a few more months to buy, but my local dealer has a nice pyrite silver SEL-P and I'm wondering if I should snag it now if there won't be any more coming.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

ice4life said:


> [...]I am picking up my SEL Premium (non R-Line) tonight and am very excited as this is no longer available as a trim moving forward! I think the 19" rims from my trim will be the ones that are now on the SEL for 2020. Then the SEL R-Line and SELP R-Line will both have the 20s std.[...]



I too felt good about getting a 2019 SEL-P when I saw that the only way to get all the SEL-P features for 2020 will be to have the 20" wheels included.
So far the 19" wheels don't seem too bad on road irregularities, and I looked up on TireSize that the 99mm sidewall is barely any smaller than the 102mm on the 17" wheels for my wife's Impreza (and my two-cars-ago 2007 Legacy). 
But the 86mm sidewall on the 20" SEL-P for 2000, that would make me nervous at any time of year on New England roads!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> I too felt good about getting a 2019 SEL-P when I saw that the only way to get all the SEL-P features for 2020 will be to have the 20" wheels included.





T-Tail said:


> Anyone know if more non R-line SEL-P's are on the way? I had planned to wait a few more months to buy, but my local dealer has a nice pyrite silver SEL-P and I'm wondering if I should snag it now if there won't be any more coming.


As I understand, (just talked to the dealer during the swap), there are no more SEL Premium (non R-Lines) being built. Only the ones which have been allocated to dealers. I am thrilled to have the non R-Line now as it is extremely rare and only a hand full were built. Even the brochure notes it as limited availability. I think the 19s on the SEL-P non R-Line are going to be the rims on the SEL non R-Line moving forward. 

Now if I could only find out how many SEL Premium non R-Lines in Kurkuma yellow were built, that'd be cool..


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## beaumisbro (Oct 2, 2009)

T-Tail said:


> Anyone know if more non R-line SEL-P's are on the way? I had planned to wait a few more months to buy, but my local dealer has a nice pyrite silver SEL-P and I'm wondering if I should snag it now if there won't be any more coming.


 I'd recommend going after any 2019 MY, since 2020s would lower the warranty term.
It should be easier to negotiate a decent discount off MSRP on the 2019s too.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Taco1933 said:


> Have you seen the Jetta version? It isn’t the same as the Arteon. The Jetta version isn’t anywhere close to the Audi version.
> 
> And that’s my concern.


So why are we taking about the Jetta again? Having owned both the Audi and VW Arteon with digital dash, the only concernable difference is the google map display which requires higher resolution and probably a more powerful graphics card and a subscription, other than that, the brightness, clarity and the display quality is very similar.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Taco1933 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you seen the Jetta version? It isn’t the same as the Arteon. The Jetta version isn’t anywhere close to the Audi version.
> ...


Because the Tiguan and Atlas have recently switched from an Arteon-like display to the smaller one similar to the Jetta. Ice4life found that the German configurator is showing the smaller display on the Arteon as well. So it’s probably headed this way.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

Taco1933 said:


> Because the Tiguan and Atlas have recently switched from an Arteon-like display to the smaller one similar to the Jetta. Ice4life found that the German configurator is showing the smaller display on the Arteon as well. So it’s probably headed this way.


Android Auto or CarPlay showing up on the digital cockpit is really what we need haha. Well at least that would be my preference


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

TablaRasa said:


> Android Auto or CarPlay showing up on the digital cockpit is really what we need haha. Well at least that would be my preference


Well, that’s never happening. Though it would be nice.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Taco1933 said:


> Because the Tiguan and Atlas have recently switched from an Arteon-like display to the smaller one similar to the Jetta. Ice4life found that the German configurator is showing the smaller display on the Arteon as well. So it’s probably headed this way.


So you are trashing the current Arteon because of a change in digital display that may or may not happen in the future?


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Taco1933 said:


> Because the Tiguan and Atlas have recently switched from an Arteon-like display to the smaller one similar to the Jetta. Ice4life found that the German configurator is showing the smaller display on the Arteon as well. So it’s probably headed this way.


Check that guys post history. You will find he is a loose cannon that over reacts to every little thing.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Taco1933 said:
> 
> 
> > Because the Tiguan and Atlas have recently switched from an Arteon-like display to the smaller one similar to the Jetta. Ice4life found that the German configurator is showing the smaller display on the Arteon as well. So it’s probably headed this way.
> ...


This thread is about rumored changes to the 2020 Arteon. This is one, and all signs are pointing to it happening. It’s definitely worthy of discussion.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Taco1933 said:


> This thread is about rumored changes to the 2020 Arteon. This is one, and all signs are pointing to it happening. It’s definitely worthy of discussion.


As much as you may or may not like the current Arteon's digital cockpit, a new display in 2020 is not going to lower the Arteon to the Honda Accord's level.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Taco1933 said:


> This thread is about rumored changes to the 2020 Arteon. This is one, and all signs are pointing to it happening. It’s definitely worthy of discussion.





The G Man said:


> As much as you may or may not like the current Arteon's digital cockpit, a new display in 2020 is not going to lower the Arteon to the Honda Accord's level.


I agree that it is a bit dramatic to say the downgraded cockpit makes this car Accord level. I think it is a blow to the overall aura of the car given its upper-scale feel, but this is just market adjusting as I already stated. Only non lux models with full cockpits are the Kia K900, Hyundai Palisade, and Ford Explorer/Mustang. Compare those 4 overall models in the non luxury market to VW who offers 5 models in their lineup with the cockpit: Jetta, Arteon, Tiguan, e-Golf, Atlas. They must have realized the competitive landscape does not warrant an expensive 12.2" unit on a non-luxury model.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

The G Man said:


> So why are we taking about the Jetta again? Having owned both the Audi and VW Arteon with digital dash, the only concernable difference is the google map display which requires higher resolution and probably a more powerful graphics card and a subscription, other than that, the brightness, clarity and the display quality is very similar.





Taco1933 said:


> Because the Tiguan and Atlas have recently switched from an Arteon-like display to the smaller one similar to the Jetta. Ice4life found that the German configurator is showing the smaller display on the Arteon as well. So it’s probably headed this way.


Here's the config btw- Clearly the 10" unit with the LED digital bar graphs on the side.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Taco1933 said:
> 
> 
> > This thread is about rumored changes to the 2020 Arteon. This is one, and all signs are pointing to it happening. It’s definitely worthy of discussion.
> ...


It reminds me of an accord. I didn’t say it was the same. And it absolutely could take the Arteons dash from an advantage to a disadvantage in its segment. A VW badged car needs all the help it can get when it’s going up against Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Taco1933 said:


> .....A VW badged car needs all the help it can get when it’s going up against Audi, Mercedes, BMW, etc.


Explain. VW is a premium brand the equal of any of those others. Worth is not determined by the shape of the logo.


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## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

The G Man said:


> So you are trashing the current Arteon because of a change in digital display that may or may not happen in the future?


Not that unexpected since someone here trashed the interior of my A4 for the center nav display. 

The new 10” digital cockpit is really disappointing for the “flagship” Arteon. Is it a deal breaker for me? probably not. But they could have certainly put in something similar to the new Euro Touareg’s digital cockpit in the Arteon to differentiate it from rest of the line up. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Faramarz1 said:


> ....The new 10” digital cockpit is really disappointing for the “flagship” Arteon. Is it a deal breaker for me? probably not. But they could have certainly put in something similar to the new Euro Touareg’s digital cockpit in the Arteon to differentiate it from rest of the line up....


USA buyers want cheap, not features they have to pay for.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

I am guessing its a cost saving measure going with a smaller display. It only makes the 2019 Arteon that much more special. It is not uncommon for car companies to implement cost saving measures after the first few years and VW did upgrade a few of the standard options on the 2010 to make up for the cheaper display.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> I am guessing its a cost saving measure going with a smaller display. It only makes the 2019 Arteon that much more special. It is not uncommon for car companies to implement cost saving measures after the first few years and VW did upgrade a few of the standard options on the 2010 to make up for the cheaper display.


How, exactly, have you determined that the newer display is less expensive as a component? What is your source?


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

which is why full size alloy spares will soon be replaced with a compact donut. 

heck the .:R doesn't even have a spare to save a few pennies.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Dieseldog12 said:


> which is why full size alloy spares will soon be replaced with a compact donut.
> 
> heck the .:R doesn't even have a spare to save a few pennies.


Only SEL Premium gets full size spare- and it is because of the larger dynaudio confidence sub which does not fit in a compact. So I'm not sure they will take it out just yet. They may make them full size steel though instead of an additional rim like mine has.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Now a days, anytime you get a full size spare, it is a bonus. My son's brand new acura only comes with a can of fix a flat and a compressor.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

The G Man said:


> Now a days, anytime you get a full size spare, it is a bonus. My son's brand new acura only comes with a can of fix a flat and a compressor.


My Allroad was $54K and still only came with a compact un-inflated spare and a compressor, and you had to plug it in and fill it up. I got a flat the week before I traded it in, and used roadside service to come fix it, just because it was too PITA to pull all the junk and compressor out and go through that whole process. Thankfully I still had a few months left on the roadside assistance!

Much happier with the nice, full size spare in the Arteon - even if I never have to use it.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

ice4life said:


> Only SEL Premium gets full size spare- and it is because of the larger dynaudio confidence sub which does not fit in a compact. So I'm not sure they will take it out just yet. They may make them full size steel though instead of an additional rim like mine has.





The G Man said:


> Now a days, anytime you get a full size spare, it is a bonus. My son's brand new acura only comes with a can of fix a flat and a compressor.


In this country, the Arteon's closest competitor (at least from my perspective), the Opel Insignia, ditches the spare entirely for the highest AWD trim ("Essence" which is the only way to get decent safety tech -- more like the SEL overall than the SEL-P).
The equivalent forum to this for Buick has all sorts of tips on how to find a spare at your local junkyard from older Buick models, since the Regal sub actually does fit just fine in the temp spare.
(But that's GM for you -- one of several factors that pushed me into the Arteon...)


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

Faramarz1 said:


> Not that unexpected since someone here trashed the interior of my A4 for the center nav display.
> 
> The new 10” digital cockpit is really disappointing for the “flagship” Arteon. Is it a deal breaker for me? probably not. But they could have certainly put in something similar to the new Euro Touareg’s digital cockpit in the Arteon to differentiate it from rest of the line up.
> 
> ...



Wow, that display looks NICE -- I would definitely pay extra for that!

Sure seems like VW has to walk a really fine line: make the Arteon interior a wee bit nicer than the top trims of mainstream family sedans, yet not intrude on Audi territory.
Overall, my take on the Arteon interior is that it sorts of succeeds, albeit in a schizo manner, i.e., some parts are nice, and some are reminiscent of my 2015 base Subaru.
(Definitely better though than the Buick Regal in its top AWD "Essence" trim. And I'll definitely take either generation of the Arteon digital displays over a friend's Tesla Model 3 I drove the other day, which cheaps out by using a single iPad-like screen located in between the driver and passenger for ALL displays and almost all controls.)

Interior comparison here re A7:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkzjkJdcTLQ

Then again, maybe we should feel grateful that the Arteon is available here at all, given the U.S. discontinuation awhile ago of the Touareg.
(Cannibalized too many Q5 sales?)


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> ....Then again, maybe we should feel grateful that the Arteon is available here at all, given the U.S. discontinuation awhile ago of the Touareg.
> (*Cannibalized too many Q5 sales?*)


So, you are saying potential Q5 buyers would go to a VW dealer for a Touareg if it was available?


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

The dealership experience is definitely better with Audi but my VW dealer is decent when it comes to customer service. The Audi interior is a bit nicer as well, as to if its worth the extra the money. That depends on which audi we compare the arteon to. Both the a5 and a7’s interior is better quality but the arteon rides and handles more like the a7 than the a5. Passenger and Cargo space is also closer to the a7 than the a5. Since a new a7 is about $80000, the arteon at half of that price equipped also the same is a bargain.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

The G Man said:


> [...] Since a new a7 is about $80000, the arteon at half of that price equipped also the same is a bargain.


That was pretty much my comparison right there.
And with the Opel Insignia in the other direction, affected heavily by the dread of dealing with Buick.

Speaking of other VW vs Audi comparisons, this must be embargoed from the U.S. b/c of potential cannibalization of A6 sales:
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15097815/2017-volkswagen-passat-20t-euro-spec-review/


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> That was pretty much my comparison right there.
> And with the Opel Insignia in the other direction, affected heavily by the dread of dealing with Buick.
> 
> Speaking of other VW vs Audi comparisons, this must be embargoed from the U.S. b/c of potential cannibalization of A6 sales:
> https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a15097815/2017-volkswagen-passat-20t-euro-spec-review/


They thought the European Passat was too small and expensive to compete with the Accord and Camry. So we got the fat, cheap offspring. It’s really a shame. 

But, as you said, at least we got the Arteon. It’s a better looking (though slightly more expensive) version of the Passat we could’ve had. If we had the European Passat, there likely wouldn’t be room the the American market for the Arteon.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

The split of the Passat into Euro and American models is what drove me out of Passat and into Audi. Not just that they were separate cars - but that the American version was fatter, softer, cheaper, and threw out some of the most important factors I wanted - no wagon, no AWD. I did trade my 07 VR6 4motion wagon for the 13 CC Executive, but that was also due to the fact that in 2013 many wagons had dropped off the market, and scoring wagon/hatch plus AWD required stepping well over $50K for any reasonable equipment levels.

My faith was restored over the past year or two when a lot more hatches and wagons returned to the market just above and below the $50K mark with AWD options...I went from having essentially no choices in 2013, to having choices from BMW, Buick, Kia, Audi, and VW at least...and even considering some of the smaller CUVs that really are just cars, even more choices.

But the equipment I could get on the Arteon, at the price point I could buy it for, and with the size and space...the only other close calls were the Kia Stinger, which stepped up too high in price and didn't offer much in the way of color preferences for me, and the Audi A5 sportback, which would require too much skimping on the option sheet to keep it close to the Arteon - I still would have been in it for over $50K and probably wouldn't have gotten as good a discount either. Essentially, nothing in the end could deliver the power, space, equipment, luxury, AWD, hatch or wagon, with price under $43K out the door.

I don't actually feel any noticeable lack of build quality, feel, luxury, etc compared to my Audi. While some switchgear or bits here and there are different, I don't feel like they're cheap, light, or poorly built. I personally don't mind if a window switch is the same as one in a less expensive model, as long as it's a solid, well built, nicely damped, and good-functioning switch. So far, friends and coworkers who have checked out the car and ridden in it haven't deemed it 'lesser' than my previous Audi - one of my coworkers has an A5 sportback bought this year - he was impressed with how much larger inside and in cargo the Arteon was, and said he would have considered it himself if it had been available in January when he bought his.

I have gone between VW and Audi and back to VW, and don't find any big difference within similar price ranges. ie: the cheapest Audi models feel very similar to VW models in that $35-40K range, and the medium level Audi models int he $50K range to me feel very similar overall to a top-end VW in the $50K range. Of course, Audi goes much higher on the price scale, and higher end Audis get appropriately swanky. The rare times VW steps into those elevations, such as the higher-end Toareg or the Phaeton, I'd consider them quite equivalent.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Taco1933 said:


> They thought the European Passat was too small and expensive to compete with the Accord and Camry. So we got the fat, cheap offspring. It’s really a shame.....


Although it isn't as nice as the European Passat, the USA version is the class of the sedans of its size and the appearance has perfect proportions.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

zackiedawg said:


> The split of the Passat into Euro and American models is what drove me out of Passat and into Audi. Not just that they were separate cars - but that the American version was fatter, softer, cheaper, and threw out some of the most important factors I wanted - no wagon, no AWD. I did trade my 07 VR6 4motion wagon for the 13 CC Executive, but that was also due to the fact that in 2013 many wagons had dropped off the market, and scoring wagon/hatch plus AWD required stepping well over $50K for any reasonable equipment levels.
> 
> My faith was restored over the past year or two when a lot more hatches and wagons returned to the market just above and below the $50K mark with AWD options...I went from having essentially no choices in 2013, to having choices from BMW, Buick, Kia, Audi, and VW at least...and even considering some of the smaller CUVs that really are just cars, even more choices.
> 
> ...



Very good write up. I have read countless posts by people who have not even sat in the car about how low quality the interior is. I guess they have Bentley level standards on every mass produced non-luxury vehicle now. Go sit in a Civic and let me know how that goes in comparison. The car is well built and the fit and finish is superb. 

It is basically a euro passat with a GT hatch. Idk why people don't realize that.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> ......Go sit in a Civic and let me know how that goes in comparison......


Or even an Acura. Recently in a 2019 TLX and was appalled of its quality compared to my 2016 Golf.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

This is my first VW, had many audi. The a5 and the stinger are smaller cars that rides stiffer than the arteon. Like mentioned earlier, the arteon sits snd rides more like an a7. The a7 is longer than the Arteon but most of that length is due to the a7’s longer hood to accommodate the v8 option. Material quality wise, the A7 is better but build quality is about the same. Seats are nicer in the A7. The arteon has more road noise and it is slower but still a pretty torquey engine none the less, especially in sport mode. Other than that, everything else is competitive between the two cars. The touch screen is actually better on the arteon.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> ....The a7 is longer than the Arteon but most of that length is due to the a7’s longer hood to accommodate the v8 option.....


No, it is longer in front due to the longitudinal drivetrain and the Arteon is transverse.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

The G Man said:


> The touch screen is actually better on the arteon.


ive actually been saying this for years now.
my wife and i were looking into an S3 (for myself) and she was looking at a Q3.

both felt very dated in the tech inside the car and for me was the reason why i didnt get the S3. wife didnt like how small the Q was, which i agreed with her.

with Audi, quality of materials always seem top notch, but when it comes to tech and general ability to do things, they fall flat on their face for sure.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

ice4life said:


> Only SEL Premium gets full size spare- and it is because of the larger dynaudio confidence sub which does not fit in a compact. So I'm not sure they will take it out just yet. They may make them full size steel though instead of an additional rim like mine has.


we have an 18" steel compact spare in the Alltrack due to the sub. Sounds like the dynaudio sub will be reduced in size as well, don't be shocked at what the bean counters are capable off.


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## Dieseldog12 (Jul 29, 2012)

zackiedawg said:


> The split of the Passat into Euro and American models is what drove me out of Passat and into Audi. Not just that they were separate cars - but that the American version was fatter, softer, cheaper, and threw out some of the most important factors I wanted - no wagon, no AWD. I did trade my 07 VR6 4motion wagon for the 13 CC Executive, but that was also due to the fact that in 2013 many wagons had dropped off the market, and scoring wagon/hatch plus AWD required stepping well over $50K for any reasonable equipment levels.


Biggest thing I noticed with the NMS Passat 2012+ vs the euro B7 is that if VW were to bring over the B7 it's be starting around 35-40K+ (look at the starting price of a B6 listed in 2010) even after the bean counters stripped ever lasting thing from it they could. 

Instead VW saw the writing on the wall of the sales of the B6 Passat tanking that the american buyers won't pay near audi prices for a VW thus Americanized it and offered it at what low 20K starting prices? Everything offered by VW except the arteon and maybe the Golf has been an "Americanized". Jetta, Passat, Atlas, Tiquan.

That being said a rear sway bar dramatically improves the Passat for a much more enjoyable ride.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> The G Man said:
> 
> 
> > The touch screen is actually better on the arteon.
> ...


I know the center display in the Audi A3/4/5 is a bit small these days and isn’t touch screen, but I’ve generally thought, when combined with their digital dash, the capabilities were among the top of its class. I definitely preferred it to the Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus options I’ve played with. 

One thing that luxury makers just seem to be figuring out is that we like touch screens. They’ve tried to force proprietary text entry systems on us for years and seem to finally just be giving us the touch screens we wanted. It definitely wouldn’t surprise me if the Arteon was a little easier to use on a day-to-day basis that anything below the A6.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Taco1933 said:


> I know the center display in the Audi A3/4/5 is a bit small these days and isn’t touch screen, but I’ve generally thought, when combined with their digital dash, the capabilities were among the top of its class. I definitely preferred it to the Mercedes, BMW, and Lexus options I’ve played with.
> 
> One thing that luxury makers just seem to be figuring out is that we like touch screens. They’ve tried to force proprietary text entry systems on us for years and seem to finally just be giving us the touch screens we wanted. It definitely wouldn’t surprise me if the Arteon was a little easier to use on a day-to-day basis that anything below the A6.


I am comparing the Arteon's control system to the current A6. The A6 has dual screens, everything HVAC, audio and controls are in these touch screen. The Audi touchscreen is slow to react, it almost seems like I have to hold my finger there for a second or two before it enters the info. I wonder if there is a setting for that, I didn't play it with too much since it was a loaner. Capability wise, the A6 can display google earth and it has gesture control but that's about it for the major difference. The VW's menu is much more user friendly and easier to operate while driving. The Dual digital screen on the Mercedes E class is pretty nice as well, its a toss up being the best between those two right now. 
As far as touch screen, I like the idea of using my finger to operate but hate the finger prints. Why cant they made a finger print resistant touch screen or a system that detects the proximity of your finger instead of having to actually touch it.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> .....wife didnt like how small the Q was, which i agreed with her......


Gee, Audi offers a lot of different size Q's with the Q3 the smallest. Why not one of the bigger ones?


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## RFGuy_KCCO (Feb 22, 2016)

Wow, that new digital cockpit screen sure looks cheap. Would much rather just have analog gauges than that cheap POS. That dash looks fine in a $25k Jetta, but makes a $45k Arteon look like cheap junk. Will likely be scratching the Arteon off my list of possible next cars because of this change. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

RFGuy_KCCO said:


> Wow, that new digital cockpit screen sure looks cheap. Would much rather just have analog gauges than that cheap POS. That dash looks fine in a $25k Jetta, but makes a $45k Arteon look like cheap junk. Will likely be scratching the Arteon off my list of possible next cars because of this change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


While it is on the eu configurator, it is not technically final yet. So hold your horses.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

VW should know that Americans like big screens


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## mediumbluemetalic (Jul 7, 2003)

ice4life said:


> It adds the WLAN module to the headunit. Before they offered true next gen connectivity, you could only create a hot spot in your car by syncing your phone to the WLAN system and using your phone as the internet connection. This was even though the telematics system technically could support it, but VW had not signed an agreement with anyone (ie verizon) for a data plan option for customers. The only model with this WLAN non internet module in the US was the Atlas SEL/SEL Premium.
> 
> Now all models will have this module, and since they signed the deal with Verizon, you can use your CarNet subscription to get live data in your car as if it is the hotspot. In addition to this, I would imagine (cannot confirm) that there will be added functionality to the app such as the ability to remote start and or control the climate remotely. Something that they have been lacking compared to the competition like hyundai blue link or GMs onstar, for quite some time.


Here's a question: with a WLAN module now built into the head unit, does this mean CarPlay/Android Auto **could** potentially go wireless? Apparently some cheap-o Skoda subcompact SUV now has wireless CarPlay, so surely VW is on the cusp of releasing it within their main brand.

It really irks me... I'd wait for 2020 if I knew that wireless CarPlay was coming. But I don't want to waste the 2019 warranty waiting for CarPlay if it's not likely before 2021 or 2022.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

mediumbluemetalic said:


> Here's a question: with a WLAN module now built into the head unit, does this mean CarPlay/Android Auto **could** potentially go wireless? Apparently some cheap-o Skoda subcompact SUV now has wireless CarPlay, so surely VW is on the cusp of releasing it within their main brand.
> 
> It really irks me... I'd wait for 2020 if I knew that wireless CarPlay was coming. But I don't want to waste the 2019 warranty waiting for CarPlay if it's not likely before 2021 or 2022.


I would think wireless carplay will be on the next gen of VW headunits debuting on the mk8 golf. These headunits date back to 2017 and always offered the WLAN module in the eu. So nothing really new here yet.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

RFGuy_KCCO said:


> Wow, that new digital cockpit screen sure looks cheap. Would much rather just have analog gauges than that cheap POS. That dash looks fine in a $25k Jetta, but makes a $45k Arteon look like cheap junk. Will likely be scratching the Arteon off my list of possible next cars because of this change.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Same! Though it won’t be the terrible one from the Jetta, it’ll be the better one from the Atlas/Tiguan. It’d still be a disappointing move for a car of that price. 



ice4life said:


> While it is on the eu configurator, it is not technically final yet. So hold your horses.


If the Atlas and Tiguan hadn’t already moved in that direction, I’d have more hope. Seems the Arteon is the last one with the bigger screen.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Taco1933 said:


> Same! Though it won’t be the terrible one from the Jetta, it’ll be the better one from the Atlas/Tiguan. It’d still be a disappointing move for a car of that price.
> 
> 
> 
> If the Atlas and Tiguan hadn’t already moved in that direction, I’d have more hope. Seems the Arteon is the last one with the bigger screen.


Technically the e golf is as that one will def not get a replacement before being discontinued for the mk8 run. It still uses the 12" on the SEL premium. Also the only us vw with the discover pro 9.2" headunit.


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## spike_africa (Nov 9, 2015)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> So no more SE R-Lines (again, not sure if any 2019s actually were made), no SEL-P non-R-Line. 4Motion isn't mentioned, so not sure how that plays out.


My local dealer has two white on black SE Rlines. Ones fwd ones awd.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

It looks like the dealer's current allocation is mostly SE, I think VW is trying to push the lower MSRP Arteons.


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## vdubs kopfschuss GLI (Sep 25, 2014)

The G Man said:


> It looks like the dealer's current allocation is mostly SE, I think VW is trying to push the lower MSRP Arteons.


im kinda surprised my local dealer hasnt gotten any new Arteons. especially since i bought my SEL-P R-line w 4Motion only a week after it arrived.
since then, they have been sitting on an SE that looks like it hasnt been touched since it arrived...

but then again, that may be a telling sign in itself.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> It looks like the dealer's current allocation is mostly SE, I think VW is trying to push the lower MSRP Arteons.


If a customer would claim one of those allocations they could get any of the versions they want. Don't accept just what shows up.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

vdubs kopfschuss GLI said:


> im kinda surprised my local dealer hasnt gotten any new Arteons. especially since i bought my SEL-P R-line w 4Motion only a week after it arrived.
> since then, they have been sitting on an SE that looks like it hasnt been touched since it arrived...
> 
> but then again, that may be a telling sign in itself.


My dealer got 3 initial arteons: 2 selp R-Line, and 1 se. 

Then they got 8 more: 2 selp, 2 sel, 2 sel R-Line, 1 se R-Line, 1 se. 

All are 4motion, and they only sold the initial 2 selp R-Lines, and 1 selp. So the cars are just sitting with zero interest.


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## knedrgr (Jun 6, 2011)

ice4life said:


> My dealer got 3 initial arteons: 2 selp R-Line, and 1 se.
> 
> Then they got 8 more: 2 selp, 2 sel, 2 sel R-Line, 1 se R-Line, 1 se.
> 
> All are 4motion, and they only sold the initial 2 selp R-Lines, and 1 selp. So the cars are just sitting with zero interest.


similar story as my local dealer. They'd just sold 3 Arteons. They're not moving at all.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Its not just the Arteon, anything that resembles a sport back is not moving. My VW dealer had a real hard time selling my S5 trade in, they actually sold it at a loss. My Audi dealer tells me the A5 and A7 are not selling well either. The New Mercedes CLS450, Buick Regal, Stinger and BMW GT cars all hurting. Too much competition I guess. The only sport back looking car that is selling well is the Honda Accord.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Its not just the Arteon, anything that resembles a sport back is not moving. My VW dealer had a real hard time selling my S5 trade in, they actually sold it at a loss. My Audi dealer tells me the A5 and A7 are not selling well either. The New Mercedes CLS450, Buick Regal, Stinger and BMW GT cars all hurting. Too much competition I guess. The only sport back looking car that is selling well is the Honda Accord.


The Accord isn't a sport back. And it's not selling well at all per TCL. But yes you're right this is a dead segment in the US as the bozos all flock to the micro crossovers with less effective space.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

ice4life said:


> The Accord isn't a sport back. And it's not selling well at all per TCL. But yes you're right this is a dead segment in the US as the bozos all flock to the micro crossovers with less effective space.


A fastback is a car with a roofline that slopes continuously down at the back, how can you look at the Accord's profile and say it is not a fastback.


----------



## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

The G Man said:


> A fastback is a car with a roofline that slopes continuously down at the back, how can you look at the Accord's profile and say it is not a fastback.


I have never looked at the Accord and thought it was a fastback. Ever. There is a definitional trunk line on the sedan body. 

A fast back originated as a coupe- for example, a mustang in the 70s. Then it evolved into the hatch designs which have come and gone on cars like the Celica/ Scion TC. Now a fastback is the equivalent in the industry of a GT or Gran Turismo style- which means there is a hatch trunk on a sedan like profile. 

The Accord does not have a hatch back. And it does not look like a fastback, sportback, or GT. If looks like a sedan.


----------



## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

I guess we will have to agree to disagree, the Accord sure looks like a hatchback from the side to me. There are many 4 door coupes that are not true hatchbacks and still consider fastbacks. Many professional reviews refer to the design of the new Accord a fastback as well. By the way, the hatchback is one of the reason I bought the Arteon instead of the Accord. Its too bad VW didn't make the Arteon shorter or comes in a 3 door coupe configuration, I do not need all that back seat space.


----------



## knedrgr (Jun 6, 2011)

The G Man said:


> I guess we will have to agree to disagree, the Accord sure looks like a hatchback from the side to me. There are many 4 door coupes that are not true hatchbacks and still consider fastbacks. Many professional reviews refer to the design of the new Accord a fastback as well. By the way, the hatchback is one of the reason I bought the Arteon instead of the Accord. Its too bad VW didn't make the Arteon shorter or comes in a 3 door coupe configuration, I do not need all that back seat space.


Then should've gotten the Golf R for less room...LOL.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

knedrgr said:


> Then should've gotten the Golf R for less room...LOL.


I was gonna say: golf R

2.0t, 4mo, hatch, smaller.


----------



## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> I was gonna say: golf R
> 
> 2.0t, 4mo, hatch, smaller.


And a "looker"!


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

knedrgr said:


> Then should've gotten the Golf R for less room...LOL.



I test drove the Golf, the ride was pretty stiff. Why does VW only offer large and small, why cant I have medium? Something the size of Passat with more power, adaptive suspension and lots of techs.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

The G Man said:


> I test drove the Golf, the ride was pretty stiff. Why does VW only offer large and small, why cant I have medium? Something the size of Passat with more power, adaptive suspension and lots of techs.


It's called the Audi A4. I could do this all day.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> knedrgr said:
> 
> 
> > Then should've gotten the Golf R for less room...LOL.
> ...


I think we were lucky to get the Arteon...


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Taco1933 said:


> I think we were lucky to get the Arteon...


Absolutely we were. Its days are already numbered as the car came out in Europe nearly 2.5 years ago. I doubt we'll get the model in the US upon refresh- which is probably due out within a year or two.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Taco1933 said:


> I think we were lucky to get the Arteon...


I first saw the Arteon online more than a year ago, the lines on this car looks amazing in picture. I waited and waited for it to be release in the US, so in a way, I do feel lucky that VW introduced the Arteon in the US but I am not sure about the this new VW trend of up-sizing all of their cars.


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Taco1933 said:
> 
> 
> > I think we were lucky to get the Arteon...
> ...


I agree on the North American Passat because they went bigger, cheaper, and slower. I used to have a B5.5 Passat over a decade ago which I enjoyed, but I won’t be buying another. 

I think the Arteon does a pretty solid job of hitting the sweet spot though. If you want something smaller but still sporty, they’ll tell you to buy a GLI (had one of those too). There’s probably not much space for another car in there.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> ....this new VW trend of up-sizing all of their cars.


When has VW, or any other maker, not up-sized their vehicle with each generation? This has been true since the automobile was invented.


----------



## knedrgr (Jun 6, 2011)

The G Man said:


> I test drove the Golf, the ride was pretty stiff. Why does VW only offer large and small, why cant I have medium? Something the size of Passat with more power, adaptive suspension and lots of techs.


Adapt the Adaptive suspensions from the Arteon to the Golf R...

Or just get a 2017 A4 with the adaptive suspension.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

The G Man said:


> It looks like the dealer's current allocation is mostly SE, I think VW is trying to push the lower MSRP Arteons.


Based on some casual searches, I've notice a lot of recently piling-up inventory of SE and SEL ... but with monster wheels.
(Personally, I don't just get paying extra for, say, a 20" wheel on a relatively econo SE?)

However, of the 11 19" SEL-P (both R and non-R) listings I'd been tracking since around June, all but one has since sold.



The G Man said:


> I guess we will have to agree to disagree, the Accord sure looks like a hatchback from the side to me. There are many 4 door coupes that are not true hatchbacks and still consider fastbacks. Many professional reviews refer to the design of the new Accord a fastback as well.[...]


Agreed -- since I'm always trying to spot another Arteon (only A5 and A7 false alerts so far), I've been a lot of attention to rear windshields.
So many of them sure look they're trying to ape the "Sportback" design!

Meanwhile, loving that hatchback versatility...
... had to pick up some trees my wife bought at a local nursery.
(To plant in front of a forest, go figure!)
Staff asked which was my car -- their glances at my Arteon seemed very doubtful.
But opened up that hatch and in the trees went!


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

knedrgr said:


> Adapt the Adaptive suspensions from the Arteon to the Golf R...
> 
> Or just get a 2017 A4 with the adaptive suspension.


The A4 does nothing for me, that's why I bought a S5 for my last car. The Arteon is a pretty low car but the A4 is even lower. The A4's overall design is lacking in many areas when compare to the Arteon.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Taco1933 said:


> Knocking the warranties down to 4 years too. Boo to that. I guess I’m a little more motivated to find a leftover MY19 this fall.
> 
> What is next gen carnet? All the Arteon’s have carnet now, right? I believe the premium is the only model that’ll let you put destinations from your phone into the nav. I assume that won’t be across the board. Is it just adding WiFi?


Just read on the atlas forum that the 2020 carnet telematics system will gain capabilities including mobile remote start. Not sure if older models will be compatible, but of course that's the one feature I wanted. 

And all arteons don't have carnet telematics. Only top trim SEL premium for some reason, whereas the rest of the lineup usually gets it starting at SE level. The three button setup on the overhead console is missing on SE and SEL since there is no telematics system. 

This should help clarify:

There are technically three different CarNets:

*CarNet App Connect: *which has absolutely nothing to do with CarNet, and is another name for Android Auto and Apple CarPlay and is standard on all arteons. This confuses people as it is not a telematics system, yet holds the same name for some reason. 

*CarNet Security & Service: *This is the true telematics system which includes app access, the over-head buttons, and a subscription service with Verizon. For 2020 it will gain wifi and you can use any service provider. 
*
CarNet Guide & Inform: *This is included on cars which have Navigation and the CarNet Security & Service, and allows you to remotely send destinations from the app to the car, or have a specialist send you the destinations over the air by pressing the I button overhead.


Sirius XM travel link is separate and included on models with nav (SEL and up) and gives you the movie info, gas prices, weather, nav traffic etc. 


For 2020 the car will gain a wifi system within, and will have added capabilities on the telematics system. I believe it will be standard on all trims for 2020 unlike only the selp for 2019.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Just read on the atlas forum that the 2020 carnet telematics system will gain capabilities including mobile remote start. Not sure if older models will be compatible, but of course that's the one feature I wanted.
> 
> And all arteons don't have carnet telematics. Only top trim SEL premium for some reason, whereas the rest of the lineup usually gets it starting at SE level. The three button setup on the overhead console is missing on SE and SEL since there is no telematics system.
> 
> ...



So sorry to make it even more confusing, but they are apparently rebranding for 2020 with the new system:

https://media.vw.com/releases/1205

*App Connect- *Remains the same AA/CP

*Remote Access- *These 2 functions were part of the Security and Service telematics system. Remote access being the app, and S&S being the emergency notifications.
*Safe & Secure*
*
Hot Spot- *This is pretty self explanatory; in car internet.

*Guide and Inform-* This is no longer the destination sending piece, but rather the new name for SiriusXM Travel Link services (which makes more sense to me).



I think they tried to take some of the plans/names from europe and apply them unsuccessfully until now.


----------



## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

The 8” digital cockpit is now on UK Arteon. Expect to see them in the US for MY 2020


https://youtu.be/mkcVttcbSh0


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Looks like VW is working hard to cut cost on the 2020 Arteon. Smaller digital displays, less factory warranty, I am guessing VW is not make much money on the 2019 Arteon with all the goodies and long warranty. I am glad I bought a 2019 before the bean counters got to it.


----------



## VdubArty (Oct 23, 2019)

The G Man said:


> Looks like VW is working hard to cut cost on the 2020 Arteon. Smaller digital displays, less factory warranty, I am guessing VW is not make much money on the 2019 Arteon with all the goodies and long warranty. I am glad I bought a 2019 before the bean counters got to it.


Same Here!! glad I got one now they are def fun to drive, way better than the honda I drove and especially with 0.5apr


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> Looks like VW is working hard to cut cost on the 2020 Arteon. Smaller digital displays, less factory warranty, I am guessing VW is not make much money on the 2019 Arteon with all the goodies and long warranty. I am glad I bought a 2019 before the bean counters got to it.


So, how is this different than any other make today?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Faramarz1 said:


> The 8” digital cockpit is now on UK Arteon. Expect to see them in the US for MY 2020
> 
> 
> https://youtu.be/mkcVttcbSh0
> ...


It has been discussed a few times. And it's 10". Glad we have the 12", it's much nicer.


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## knedrgr (Jun 6, 2011)

The G Man said:


> Looks like VW is working hard to cut cost on the 2020 Arteon. Smaller digital displays, less factory warranty, I am guessing VW is not make much money on the 2019 Arteon with all the goodies and long warranty. I am glad I bought a 2019 before the bean counters got to it.


They did the same thing on the Atlas...


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

knedrgr said:


> They did the same thing on the Atlas...


Can you list for us the makes that do not do this?


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## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

ice4life said:


> It has been discussed a few times. And it's 10". Glad we have the 12", it's much nicer.


Thanks for pointing that out. It appeared on VW.de configurator couple of months ago. It looks a bit better in the wild. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Faramarz1 said:


> Thanks for pointing that out. It appeared on VW.de configurator couple of months ago. It looks a bit better in the wild.





ice4life said:


> Here's the config btw- Clearly the 10" unit with the LED digital bar graphs on the side.



Yeah I posted it a while ago.


----------



## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

That dash/screen definitely looks cheaper than the '19s. There are a lot of things I'm very happy to have picked up the '19 for, including this display change and of course the warranty, which is a biggie.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Sorry, that display looks terrible, looks cheap and small, looks like a child's toy.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Where are the 2020s? The Golf, Jetta, Passat and Tiguan are on the lot now. The Atlas is a little strange in that they are doing a limited 2020 run with an early 2021 refresh intro in the spring- but what about the Arteon. Are sales so dismal that they are just holding off on sending the 2020? There is no info on colors or anything, and NADA doesn't even list it yet which is really weird considering they get syndicated order guide data..


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> (Personally, I don't just get paying extra for, say, a 20" wheel on a relatively econo SE?)


I don't want 20 inchers even on an S5. I was looking at local inventory of S5s, and it looks like if you want the adaptive suspension, which I want, it's automatically bundled with the black optics package which features gaudy 20 inchers. Found one dealer 1000+ miles away that opts for 19-inchers with the adaptive suspension, and 19" is where I draw the line for this type of car. So 20" is definitely a no-no on the Arteon for me.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

knedrgr said:


> similar story as my local dealer. They'd just sold 3 Arteons. They're not moving at all.


Are you saying I could snag one now at super low price? It will postpone my S5 / Corvette Stingray itch for a couple of years


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> Where are the 2020s? The Golf, Jetta, Passat and Tiguan are on the lot now. The Atlas is a little strange in that they are doing a limited 2020 run with an early 2021 refresh intro in the spring- but what about the Arteon. Are sales so dismal that they are just holding off on sending the 2020? There is no info on colors or anything, and NADA doesn't even list it yet which is really weird considering they get syndicated order guide data..


What other European sourced 2020 VW are on the lots?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Here is an interior shot of the 2020 which has the smaller cockpit


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Is that the Euro model with the round airbag on the steering wheel?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

The G Man said:


> Is that the Euro model with the round airbag on the steering wheel?


yeah- just the gti/golf r steering wheel (which isn't heatable)


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## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

I don’t like the two tone grill


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Faramarz1 said:


> ....I don’t like the two tone grill.....


:screwy:


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Where is the two tone grille?


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

Faramarz1 said:


> I don’t like the two tone grill


Hadn't noticed that and I agree. 



The G Man said:


> Where is the two tone grille?


The top half of the "main" grille has chrome strips that connect the LED driving lights, but the lower half (the part that spills down onto the bumper face) of that grille does not. On standard R-Line models ALL the grille slats have chrome.


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## knedrgr (Jun 6, 2011)

Faramarz1 said:


> I don’t like the two tone grill
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'd seen some other EU owners do this on their personalized car, and personally, I think it looks sharp. 

That non-metallic gray/black color combo is damn nice too.

But then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Faramarz1 said:


> I don’t like the two tone grill
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I mean it's not really two tone, it's gloss black to match the rims mirrors and roof. But yeah it looks bad.


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## bgc996 (Aug 27, 2004)

ice4life said:


> I mean it's not really two tone, it's gloss black to match the rims mirrors and roof. But yeah it looks bad.


mmm Urano Grey :heart:


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

bgc996 said:


> mmm Urano Grey :heart:


It's moonstone gray, not urano. Special edition for Europe (250 cars). 

https://www.netcarshow.com/volkswagen/2020-arteon_r-line_edition/


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> Hadn't noticed that and I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> The top half of the "main" grille has chrome strips that connect the LED driving lights, but the lower half (the part that spills down onto the bumper face) of that grille does not. On standard R-Line models ALL the grille slats have chrome.


The less chrome the better for a vehicle of this premium class.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> Hadn't noticed that and I agree.
> 
> 
> 
> The top half of the "main" grille has chrome strips that connect the LED driving lights, but the lower half (the part that spills down onto the bumper face) of that grille does not. On standard R-Line models ALL the grille slats have chrome.


So you want a chrome strip on the bottom of the grille?


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## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

knedrgr said:


> I'd seen some other EU owners do this on their personalized car, and personally, I think it looks sharp.
> 
> That non-metallic gray/black color combo is damn nice too.
> 
> But then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder...


It would have looked better IMO if the whole grill was gloss black and gloss black strips continued into headlights instead of the chrome ones. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

This grille looks better in darker color cars in my opinion.


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## sdvolksGTi (Sep 17, 2007)

I plan on wrapping my chrome in black chrome, like I did on my CC. It’s subtle but has a premium look and not so flashy.


Sent from my car phone


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## knedrgr (Jun 6, 2011)

Faramarz1 said:


> It would have looked better IMO if the whole grill was gloss black and gloss black strips continued into headlights instead of the chrome ones.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I've seen some pictures of a couple of Arteons with all black-out grill and even the headlight strips. But it was also on a black car. Looks pretty good.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

knedrgr said:


> I've seen some pictures of a couple of Arteons with all black-out grill and even the headlight strips. But it was also on a black car. Looks pretty good.


Here is a picture with an arteon with black out grille. In my opinion, its not a good look mainly due to the odd shape grille. The arteon's grille is a work of art, one of the reason I bought this car, personally, I would not mess with a work of art.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gloss-Blac...rille-Fit-For-VW-Arteon-2019-21-/283565900740


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## AlexSky (Nov 2, 2019)

The G Man said:


> Here is a picture with an arteon with black out grille. In my opinion, its not a good look mainly due to the odd shape grille. The arteon's grille is a work of art, one of the reason I bought this car, personally, I would not mess with a work of art.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gloss-Blac...rille-Fit-For-VW-Arteon-2019-21-/283565900740


I'm totally with you on this.
Since I first red about the possibility to have the front grill blacked out, I asked myself if that's something I would be interested in.
Personally, I think the grill is just perfect as it is out of the dealer!


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## ni4ni (Feb 26, 2001)

The G Man said:


> Here is a picture with an arteon with black out grille. In my opinion, its not a good look mainly due to the odd shape grille. The arteon's grille is a work of art, one of the reason I bought this car, personally, I would not mess with a work of art.
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gloss-Blac...rille-Fit-For-VW-Arteon-2019-21-/283565900740


Totally agree with you on that. In addition I like this car with lighter color because you could see so much more and appreciate the design aspect of it. Darker color seem to hide most of the lining features....well, at least to me anyway.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

Still no sign of the 2020's it seems.


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## Erdeke (Jan 7, 2020)

Faramarz1 said:


> I don’t like the two tone grill
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I love that grey color. That was the color I wanted when I ordered my Arteon, but it wasn't available at the time. After considering the differente color options I went for the Curcuma yellow. I'm very happe with my choice now. I also thought about blacking out all the chrome. In the end I decided not to do it, mainly because it changes the visual hight of the windows on the side.


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## SDArteon (Jun 16, 2019)

av_audi said:


> Still no sign of the 2020's it seems.


Dealers told me could be as later as middle of 2020, but they were also trying to sell me a 2019 model so Arteons will become in “short supply”  Since they are selling off remaining stock. I think this is true, they are driving demand up by pricing reductions and supply is dwindling based upon current stock levels.

Its anyone's guess but it entirely plausible that VW don’t end up bring the 2020 Arteon here anymore.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

SDArteon said:


> Dealers told me could be as later as middle of 2020, but they were also trying to sell me a 2019 model so Arteons will become in “short supply”  Since they are selling off remaining stock. I think this is true, they are driving demand up by pricing reductions and supply is dwindling based upon current stock levels.
> 
> Its anyone's guess but it entirely plausible that VW don’t end up bring the 2020 Arteon here anymore.


They skipped the 2020 egolf And atlas even after they said they were coming in the press release. I know the atlas is getting a pushed redesign to justify it, but who knows with the Arteon.


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## The G Man (Jun 26, 2019)

Didn't the 2019 came out in May of 2019 due to the emission delay, it would make sense for the 2020 to come out a year later. My guess is that it the 2020 will be in the showroom by May 2020.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

The G Man said:


> ...it would make sense for the 2020 to come out a year later......


Your logic? :screwy:


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

Bump.

Still no 2020 Arteons anywhere here and we have 4 VW dealers in the metro area. :thumbdown:

Just a handful of 2019s and I have yet to see one in the wild. Not that hard to understand since once again VW built a real winner then didn't bother to advertise it. :facepalm:


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## VdubArty (Oct 23, 2019)

KCJeep said:


> Bump.
> 
> Still no 2020 Arteons anywhere here and we have 4 VW dealers in the metro area. :thumbdown:
> 
> Just a handful of 2019s and I have yet to see one in the wild. Not that hard to understand since once again VW built a real winner then didn't bother to advertise it. :facepalm:


There are not a lot out there according to the report from the one guy that posted it and then had to delete it but thought there was only 3500 built or something like that. I could be wrong if anyone chimes in.


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## buffym (Jul 11, 2019)

VdubArty said:


> There are not a lot out there according to the report from the one guy that posted it and then had to delete it but thought there was only 3500 built or something like that. I could be wrong if anyone chimes in.


3,500 units sounds about right.

VW sold 2,449 Arteons in 2019.

In early January 2020, I recall looking at cars.com and there were around 980 Arteons still on the lots at the time. That is obviously not an exact number, but 2449 + 980 adds up close to 3,500 units.


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

There are 71 2020 models listed on cars.com. Now that doesn't mean these cars are on lots, but, if I understand how this all works, it means VINs have been issued to dealers, so that means the cars are on their way. Some dealers are more diligent with entering the VINs into their sales sites than others, so there are probably more than just 71 on the way. 

Side note: a VW exec said they are looking to increase Arteon advertising this year to help boost sales.


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## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

2020s hit dealer lots couple of days ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

Faramarz1 said:


> 2020s hit dealer lots couple of days ago.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah I started seeing them on cars.com with actual photos about a month ago. Pretty stoked they discontinued my trim- Won't be seeing any more with the chennai rims or brushed aluminum interior trim 

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...ORT&sort=price-highest&yrId=36620293&zc=80221

And that new 10" cockpit looks like dog doo










Heck, the engine cover doesn't even have the VW stamp on it anymore :facepalm:


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## sdvolksGTi (Sep 17, 2007)

ice4life said:


> Yeah I started seeing them on cars.com with actual photos about a month ago. Pretty stoked they discontinued my trim- Won't be seeing any more with the chennai rims or brushed aluminum interior trim
> 
> https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...ORT&sort=price-highest&yrId=36620293&zc=80221
> 
> ...


Agreed about the new cockpit. I'm very happy with mine. So many people compliment it.


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

sdvolksGTi said:


> Agreed about the new cockpit. I very happy with mine. So many people compliment it.


What is different about the 2020 cockpit? Looks the same as 2019 to me...?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

eteather said:


> What is different about the 2020 cockpit? Looks the same as 2019 to me...?


The new version is 2" smaller (the original is 12" and the new version is 10") and it has cheap looking LED bar graphs on either side for fuel/temp, instead of a full digital display. The new version also loses the clock display in the center top for whatever reason, and has cheaper looking (less detailed) digital dials.

It is in no way the same as the 2019 system. This was a cost cutting measure to align the cockpit to the rest of the 2020 lineup which uses the smaller cheaper version. A shame.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> ....Heck, the engine cover doesn't even have the VW stamp on it anymore :facepalm:....


yeah, that critical......


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## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

What’s the deal with removing VW logo from the engine cover? Did they outsource the engine too?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

ice4life said:


> The new version is 2" smaller (the original is 12" and the new version is 10") and it has cheap looking LED bar graphs on either side for fuel/temp, instead of a full digital display. The new version also loses the clock display in the center top for whatever reason, and has cheaper looking (less detailed) digital dials.
> 
> It is in no way the same as the 2019 system. This was a cost cutting measure to align the cockpit to the rest of the 2020 lineup which uses the smaller cheaper version. A shame.


ok, now I see it....wow. makes me feel great about buying a 2019 last month (especially with the discount).


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

Faramarz1 said:


> What’s the deal with removing VW logo from the engine cover? Did they outsource the engine too?....


It is actually Audi's engine.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

ice4life said:


> The new version is 2" smaller (the original is 12" and the new version is 10") and it has cheap looking LED bar graphs on either side for fuel/temp, instead of a full digital display. The new version also loses the clock display in the center top for whatever reason, and has cheaper looking (less detailed) digital dials.
> 
> It is in no way the same as the 2019 system. This was a cost cutting measure to align the cockpit to the rest of the 2020 lineup which uses the smaller cheaper version. A shame.


The only thing I wish the 12" had that the 10" does is the ability to get the full map display. But otherwise, the 12 inch is way better and doesn't look cheap


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## JettaVR6mk (Dec 28, 2000)

TablaRasa said:


> The only thing I wish the 12" had that the 10" does is the ability to get the full map display. But otherwise, the 12 inch is way better and doesn't look cheap


Well it looks like it has some other nice additions, like the driving data showing all stats on one view, and I think I saw that it had more "styles" to choose from. But it's definitely a lower quality, smaller display.

The reason I bought my 2019 instead of waiting for a 2020 in a color I wanted, was because I didn't want the smaller display or greatly reduced warranty.


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## VdubArty (Oct 23, 2019)

JettaVR6mk said:


> Well it looks like it has some other nice additions, like the driving data showing all stats on one view, and I think I saw that it had more "styles" to choose from. But it's definitely a lower quality, smaller display.
> 
> The reason I bought my 2019 instead of waiting for a 2020 in a color I wanted, was because I didn't want the smaller display or greatly reduced warranty.


Thats the reason why I bought a 2019 as well! Glad I did


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

JettaVR6mk said:


> ....or greatly reduced warranty.


The warranty has zero impact on the vehicle I select to buy.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

JettaVR6mk said:


> Well it looks like it has some other nice additions, like the driving data showing all stats on one view, and I think I saw that it had more "styles" to choose from. But it's definitely a lower quality, smaller display.
> 
> The reason I bought my 2019 instead of waiting for a 2020 in a color I wanted, was because I didn't want the smaller display or greatly reduced warranty.


Yeah, we have the 12" in our '18 Atlas and some of '19s came with it. However, rest of the 2019s and on got the 10".

another thing wish that it was changed in the Arteon steering wheel. Expecting it was going to be like the Atlas Cross sport. I like the look of it compared to the old one. Anyways, you can get a 2020 for some discounted price hehe


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## Taco1933 (Nov 1, 2017)

ice4life said:


> Yeah I started seeing them on cars.com with actual photos about a month ago. Pretty stoked they discontinued my trim- Won't be seeing any more with the chennai rims or brushed aluminum interior trim
> 
> https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searc...ORT&sort=price-highest&yrId=36620293&zc=80221
> 
> ...


Yeah, it does. You can get away with that on a Jetta, but at $35k, it should be better. The analog dash has a more premium look to it.


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## zackiedawg (Jul 21, 2000)

Also noticed for the first time on VW's main site when you click on Arteon and explore, the Kurkuma Yellow color is officially gone. One more thing I'm extremely happy about sticking to my guns on getting that color in the 2019 rather than waiting to order a 2020 in some other color. I had been told and posted that yellow wasn't going to be available when they canceled my order last year, but this is the first thing I've seen that seems to confirm it.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

Has anyone else noticed that the EPA highway mpg rating for the FWD model has been revised down from 31 to 29??? The AWD ratings are unchanged.

Based on the info I found, the gear ratios seem to have remained the same. So what's the story? Was VW pulling some fuel economy shenanigans again and they backed off from optimistic predictions out of precaution?

The AWD highway rating of 27mpg makes more sense now, since I always thought the EPA highway mpg rating drop from AWD to FWD was suspiciously large.

But at the end of the day, we have a FWD four-banger getting a highway EPA rating of under 30mpg - a rarity nowadays - while the AWD 6-cylinder S5 gets a highway rating of 30mpg.

This is both baffling and disappointing.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

av_audi said:


> ....This is both baffling and disappointing.


So, you are saying the EPA rating process has not changes?


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

av_audi said:


> Has anyone else noticed that the EPA highway mpg rating for the FWD model has been revised down from 31 to 29??? The AWD ratings are unchanged.
> 
> Based on the info I found, the gear ratios seem to have remained the same. So what's the story? Was VW pulling some fuel economy shenanigans again and they backed off from optimistic predictions out of precaution?
> 
> ...


Has to do with the aisin complaints. They remapped the aisin on all 2020 aisin equipped models which called for new epa testing (hence the 2020 delays) and lower epa numbers. Post dieselgate they don't f around with this stuff. They can't afford it.


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## JettaVR6mk (Dec 28, 2000)

ice4life said:


> They remapped the aisin on all 2020 aisin equipped models which called for new epa testing (hence the 2020 delays) and lower epa numbers.


Where did you learn that from? 

If it's true, then they should be able to apply that same mapping to the 2019s if all the hardware is unchanged.


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## SDArteon (Jun 16, 2019)

JettaVR6mk said:


> Where did you learn that from?
> 
> If it's true, then they should be able to apply that same mapping to the 2019s if all the hardware is unchanged.


Which bring up an interesting question of which driving mode is used when they test fuel consumption figures? Clearly sport will consume more fuel than the normal setting.

I personally would not reflash the TCU and loose performance to get a slight change in MPG. Also, maybe the drive cycle is not the same.


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

JettaVR6mk said:


> Where did you learn that from?
> 
> If it's true, then they should be able to apply that same mapping to the 2019s if all the hardware is unchanged.


This is a sensitive topic, because by law they are not supposed to flash models with the Aisin that are not within the re-tested MY, because they are not re-reated with the epa and puts them technically out of compliance. There were certain Tiguan owners who I know were able to get the flash on their early 2019s because VW applied the change to the tiguan in mid-late 2019, and and those early 2019s were able to slide within the 2019 epa testing output. The people with the 2018s were SOL at the time though. I imagine it will be the same situation with the 2019 vs 2020 models (ie arteon).




SDArteon said:


> Which bring up an interesting question of which driving mode is used when they test fuel consumption figures? Clearly sport will consume more fuel than the normal setting.
> 
> I personally would not reflash the TCU and loose performance to get a slight change in MPG. Also, maybe the drive cycle is not the same.


They test in normal mode. That is why the transmission always defaults back to D in any other mode upon restart. To minimize variance from test to real world.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

ice4life said:


> Has to do with the aisin complaints. They remapped the aisin on all 2020 aisin equipped models which called for new epa testing (hence the 2020 delays) and lower epa numbers. Post dieselgate they don't f around with this stuff. They can't afford it.


What were the complaints about the Aisin transmission and what was the nature of the remapping? Was it to make the car more responsive? Smoother? And why has the FWD highway mpg dropped by 2 while the highway mpg of the AWD model has remained the same? Was the mapping done only on the FWD or the was the AWD mgp change small enough that it got absorbed in the whole number rounding of the rating?

Bottom line: how different would driving a 2019 feel compared to a 220?

*EDIT*: I now see that according to the VW site, the highway mpgs for the AWD went *UP *from 27 to 29. So both the 2020 FWD and AWD have now highway mpg ratings of 29, whereas the 2019 model had ratings of 31 and 27. This is making less and less sense to me.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

av_audi said:


> What were the complaints about the Aisin transmission......


There were whiners about the sound of the overdrive lockup.


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

av_audi said:


> [...]*EDIT*: I now see that according to the VW site, the highway mpgs for the AWD went *UP *from 27 to 29. So both the 2020 FWD and AWD have now highway mpg ratings of 29, whereas the 2019 model had ratings of 31 and 27. This is making less and less sense to me.


Although the relative changes are confusing, the revised AWD highway rating certainly matches up more closely with what I've been observing: the vast majority of my ~21k miles so far has been on highways, and my mpg (calculated, although OBC is really close too) has been close to 30 with the stock 19" setup and 28.5 on 18" winter.


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

Jonathan Shefftz said:


> Although the relative changes are confusing, the revised AWD highway rating certainly matches up more closely with what I've been observing: the vast majority of my ~21k miles so far has been on highways, and my mpg (calculated, although OBC is really close too) has been close to 30 with the stock 19" setup and 28.5 on 18" winter.


I'm consistently getting 19mpg city..... yes I'm bombing around town during no-speed-limit-covid-days...


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## Jonathan Shefftz (May 19, 2019)

eteather said:


> I'm consistently getting 19mpg city..... yes I'm bombing around town during no-speed-limit-covid-days...


Lots of police cruisers on the highways out here now ... except they never pull anyone over!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

av_audi said:


> ice4life said:
> 
> 
> > Has to do with the aisin complaints. They remapped the aisin on all 2020 aisin equipped models which called for new epa testing (hence the 2020 delays) and lower epa numbers. Post dieselgate they don't f around with this stuff. They can't afford it.
> ...


The complaints are all over vortex. Mainly on the Jetta and Atlas with the wooshing noises and torque converter lock up grinding. 

I notice the wooshing on the arteon when in eco mode from a stop. 

But like I said, they won't just apply changes from previous model years because that puts them out of compliance with the EPA (even though they're the same damn car from 19-20).

There is the possibility that they do a recall which would keep the 2019 changes in compliance, but I doubt it because this is VW we're dealing with.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

ice4life said:


> ... e wooshing noises and torque converter lock up grinding.


"Wooshing" sounds is one thing, but grinding???  That's a sure sign of damage occuring. 

I had not heard about this issue before because I am not on vortex as much as I used to be, but a quick search revealed there is at least one class action lawsuit about this. Relevant quote: _"Plaintiff Parrish delivered his vehicle [Jetta] to Norm Reeves Volkswagen complaining of “coffee grinder noise from engine or transmission....” The technician test drove the vehicle and determined that it was “normal as designed due to transmission in lower gear no correction” and returned the vehicle to Plaintiff Parrish without performing or attempting to perform any transmission repairs"_ [Lawsuit].

But I haven's seen anyone complain about grinding noises on the Arteon forum. Have you experienced it?

Because of some great current deals, I was thinking about getting an Arteon as a second car while I driving my CC to the ground. Now I am not sure I should even think about it. And of course, we have no idea yet (probably) whether the new mapping has completely fixed the issue or whether the problem is really only software based.


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

av_audi said:


> "Wooshing" sounds is one thing, but grinding???  That's a sure sign of damage occuring.
> 
> I had not heard about this issue before because I am not on vortex as much as I used to be, but a quick search revealed there is at least one class action lawsuit about this. Relevant quote: _"Plaintiff Parrish delivered his vehicle [Jetta] to Norm Reeves Volkswagen complaining of “coffee grinder noise from engine or transmission....” The technician test drove the vehicle and determined that it was “normal as designed due to transmission in lower gear no correction” and returned the vehicle to Plaintiff Parrish without performing or attempting to perform any transmission repairs"_ [Lawsuit].
> 
> ...


I have a 2012 CC with 120K miles (i'm the original owner) and a new 2019 Arteon SEL-P. I think the transmission on the Arteon is smoother than that on the CC (DSG). The DSG transmission does feel a bit tighter, but it rides rough. I have not experienced any issues with the Arteon for the first 2k miles...have not driven it in Eco mode...


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

av_audi said:


> ice4life said:
> 
> 
> > ... e wooshing noises and torque converter lock up grinding.
> ...


Honestly I think it's too soon to tell. The aisin only started getting used in the lineup in 2018. Now pretty much the entire lineup has it. It appears the problems are different based on the engine matting. 

But overall I believe it has something to do with the torque converter locking up too often for efficiency (EPA rating purposes) which could be leading to problems down the road. 

VW swears up and down there isn't an issue, but clearly there were enough people for it to warrant a class action with the Jetta so far. When I had my Jetta it was bad. Like you could hear it grind when you took your foot off the gas and coasted. 

Everyone keeps saying oh well with the 6 year warranty who cares, but what about the 2020s which only have the 4 year warranty? Not a viable excuse anymore imo. 

The arteon seems to have the fewest issues, but there have been a few reported transmission issues including a tcu failure and a full replacement. And that's just the people who posted on here. Who knows who else has had issues. 

I hate the transmission. It's just terrible. But it's not enough for me to fear monger people into not buying a great underappreciated vehicle like the arteon.


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

ice4life said:


> H....I hate the transmission. It's just terrible. .....


So, why did you choose this vehicle then? :screwy:


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

ice4life said:


> Honestly I think it's too soon to tell. The aisin only started getting used in the lineup in 2018. Now pretty much the entire lineup has it. It appears the problems are different based on the engine matting.
> 
> But overall I believe it has something to do with the torque converter locking up too often for efficiency (EPA rating purposes) which could be leading to problems down the road.
> 
> ...



My transmission has been fine and it looks like it has some kind of programming to learn from driving pattern? I don't know if its in my head, but I seem to like it more as I drive it. I did turn off the braking-to-limit-torque using OBD11 and that seems to have improved the feel in low gear. I also did my commute today in ECO mode for the first time to see what it was like....I was on calls so I just put it in ACC for the most of the time.... transmission was very smooth (and boring)....I got 28 mpg when I normally get 19-22!


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## ice4life (Nov 6, 2017)

eteather said:


> My transmission has been fine and it looks like it has some kind of programming to learn from driving pattern? I don't know if its in my head, but I seem to like it more as I drive it. I did turn off the braking-to-limit-torque using OBD11 and that seems to have improved the feel in low gear. I also did my commute today in ECO mode for the first time to see what it was like....I was on calls so I just put it in ACC for the most of the time.... transmission was very smooth (and boring)....I got 28 mpg when I normally get 19-22!


what is the braking-to-limit-torque you speak of? Where is the coding?


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

ice4life said:


> what is the braking-to-limit-torque you speak of? Where is the coding?


its the "Starting Vibration Reduction" mod.... here is how it is explained for the Mk 7, but I could not find "starting vibration reduction". Instead I found something that says something like brake torque limitation and set it to deactivated.

Select Control Unit 03 – Brake
Adaptation
Starting Vibration Reduction
Set to Starting Vibration Reduction and Torque Limitation to ‘Deactivated’

I looked at my front rotors and see that they are very pitted and I'm at 2000 miles. I wonder if these active braking programs are causing this. I will need new rotors by the first oil change....I've seen this complaint elsewhere on this forum so I'm going to push this to VW......


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

ice4life said:


> I hate the transmission. It's just terrible. .


It's too bad we don't get the DSG version in the US. When I brought this up once before, people rightfully pointed out how DSG is a little more fragile and requires more maintenance. But it seems like this Aisin is no star either. And latest implementation of DSG as done in the A4 is supposed to be extremely good, without the low speed jerkiness observed in older iterations.


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

eteather said:


> I have a 2012 CC with 120K miles (i'm the original owner) and a new 2019 Arteon SEL-P.



I have a manual 2013 CC, so you are the perfect person to ask: how is the handling of the Arteon compared to the CC? How about ride comfort and noise levels?


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

av_audi said:


> eteather said:
> 
> 
> > I have a 2012 CC with 120K miles (i'm the original owner) and a new 2019 Arteon SEL-P.
> ...


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

eteather said:


> av_audi said:
> 
> 
> > but I much prefer the Arteon.
> ...


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## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

av_audi said:


> eteather said:
> 
> 
> > That's good to know. Now if I only could get these transmission and front rotor issues out of my head
> ...


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## sharif_armstrong (May 17, 2020)

Fragile? The Aisin AWF8F45 has the same maximum torque limit of 480nm, almost as the 500nm ZF8 HP50 (Giulia, BMW M240i, 5 series, 7 series..), and a higher limit than a 450nm ZF8 HP45 (Chrysler 300, BMW X5 35i, Dodge Charger..)

It has much smoother operation than any DSG. Only benefit the DSG so far has is the launch mode. Beside that, I don't see any advantages.

The ZF8 in my 2014 A5 2.0T was not a fast shifter by any means.

Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong.


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## sharif_armstrong (May 17, 2020)

1 failure in 3 years the car has been out? The automatic is also used in Canada, and few other territories. We also don't know the factors, how car was serviced, driven, tune or stock? If it was a stage 2 getting drag stripped on the daily, I can see the automatic failing. Any gearbox will.

Why haven't you touched upon DSG failures? Frankly, quite sure there are tons of people who hate them and their driving feel.


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## sharif_armstrong (May 17, 2020)

That's what I hear often. I never owned a DSG vehicle, only manuals and 8 speed ZF's, but I am really liking the way this gearbox behaves. It shifts really well at higher speeds, quickly, yet provides for a very smooth experience. 

Can't complain!


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

sharif_armstrong said:


> Fragile? The Aisin AWF8F45 has the same maximum torque


The fragile comment was about the DSG: "... how DSG is a little more fragile ..." I am not sure how one can misunderstand that.



> Only benefit the DSG so far has is the launch mode. Beside that, I don't see any advantages.


99% of people don't care about launch mode. The main benefits of DSG are faster shifts and higher efficiency. The latter translates into more power at the wheels and better fuel economy. Just to put things in perspective, the heavier 2020 A6 2.0T achieves better acceleration and fuel economy than the Arteon [Consumer Reports]. The engine is slightly different, but not enough to explain the difference. That leaves the transmission, which in the 2020 2.0T A6 Audi is a DSG. Of course, I am sure there are other factors as well.

And while DSG's have been typically jerky at low speed, here is what CR says about the 2020 A4:

_Another change is the fitment of a seven-speed dual-clutch automatic, as opposed to the the previous A4’s super-slick eight-speed automatic. Such set-ups are typically plagued with low speed vibration, but the new transmission works so well, most drivers will assume it’s a traditional automatic. Gear swaps happen quickly, smoothly, and appropriately. _

Obviously, it's been improved a lot. I am sure it is still not as smooth as the Aisin, because a dry clutch transmission will never be as smooth as a traditional auto.



> The ZF8 in my 2014 A5 2.0T was not a fast shifter by any means.


That ZF was in a model at the end of its run, so it was probably ten year old technology.

I am not saying that the Aisin transmission is bad or unreliable. Aisin has come up in this thread for two reasons: the EPA ratings for the Arteon have changed from 2019 to 2020, and someone pointed out it was because of a remapping of the transmission due to "complaints." And I still don't fully understand why the fuel economy of the Arteon is lower than for its comparable Audi cousins. The AWD system is different, but 4motion is supposed to be slightly more fuel efficient than Quattro. So that leaves the transmission ...


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## Faramarz1 (May 13, 2010)

Keep in mind the new A6 no longer uses the permanent Quattro AWD. Instead it has Quattro ultra and 48V mild hybrid system and they both contribute to the better fuel economy. 

Overall, by the looks of it, I think the decision to put the eight speed aisin transmission in the US Arteon hasn’t yielded much benefit so far in terms of the driving feel improvement which VW claimed was their goal for using it instead of the DSG when they released the car. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SDArteon (Jun 16, 2019)

av_audi said:


> The fragile comment was about the DSG: "... how DSG is a little more fragile ..." I am not sure how one can misunderstand that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



My 2010 Passat had DSG - IMHO, I wouldn't say it was fragile, but possibly more complex and required more maintenance - transmission fluid change every 40k miles.

Its definitely more efficient and shifts without any perceptible feel to it - some complain of hesitation in first gear. It really is not an auto gearbox but and automated manual. They mechatronics part would fail in the earlier gearboxes and I was sure at some point it would happen to mine, Not so, no trouble withe the gearbox in 150K miles. I really wish VW had put the DSG in to the US Arteon


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## KCJeep (Dec 5, 2018)

SDArteon said:


> My 2010 Passat had DSG - IMHO, I wouldn't say it was fragile, but possibly more complex and required more maintenance - transmission fluid change every 40k miles.
> 
> Its definitely more efficient and shifts without any perceptible feel to it - some complain of hesitation in first gear. It really is not an auto gearbox but and automated manual. They mechatronics part would fail in the earlier gearboxes and I was sure at some point it would happen to mine, Not so, no trouble withe the gearbox in 150K miles. I really wish VW had put the DSG in to the US Arteon


It takes a while to learn how to drive a DSG, took me about 4k miles to really get it done properly from a stop. I love it, one of the best features of the car. Would have been a plus in the Arteon IMO.


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## sharif_armstrong (May 17, 2020)

av_audi said:


> sharif_armstrong said:
> 
> 
> > Fragile? The Aisin AWF8F45 has the same maximum torque
> ...


If you are quoting Consumer reports, then they have achieved 8.1s 0-60 on the Arteon, which is nonsense (a Camry 2.5 has better times in their magazine). B.s, at its best. Even with 4 fat people in the car, it still does 0-60 within 7 seconds, without brake torquing. I have no idea what they did. Used 87 gas and went 30% on the throttle with 4 people in the car?:banghead: They also didn't mention is how much quicker the Arteon is 60-130, than that same 2020 Audi A6 2.0T. 60-130 it's similarly quick to my former 17' A7 3.0T. The A6 also uses a mild hybrid system, which helps with off the line acceleration from a launch, and gives a burst of torque at low speed, and makes for sweeter EPA estimates. The transmission in my A5 wasn't slick. It was more to the sluggish side, btw. 

The Arteon within 6s to 60, on 93 gas, without launch control. Here is a dragy GPS test I found on Youtube, along with a few more tests and slips (which I can also send links to).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i7E3aHLkMM

The DSG may achieve quicker shifts, but when we are talking about modern 8 speeds, they shift at "near quick" speeds to a dual-clutch. The ZF8 used in both the Audi's I had is still used TO THIS DAY in S5's and SQ5's. 
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a23367341/automatic-transmission-best-zf-eight-speed/

If we are looking at highway accelerations, that's 2 shifts to get from 60-110. Even if the DSG shifts 100 milliseconds faster, that's not enough to make a difference at all.
Manuals shift are times slower than any modern automatic, yet a manual GTI isn't slower in real than its DSG counterpart - hence why would an 8 speed be?

I won't go into EPA or estimates, but the Arteon is more efficient than both Audi's that I had. 
The figures may be different because more weight was added to the car? Or they re-looked at the figures? BMW changes these numbers quite often too. Too many factors and regulations. Saying because of the DSG is 100% wrong. Back 10-15 years ago when most transmissions were 5-6 speeds, the DSG had a significant edge, but not in 2019.

Look at all the performance cars. The majority have 8-10 speeds. All BMW's use 8 speeds (X2 M35i uses the same Aisin as the Arteon), Audi's top line use 8 speed (S4, S5, SQ5). VW uses 8 speeds, Mini Cooper JCW's use the same Aisin 8 speed, and so on. They could have easily gone with dual-clutch transmissions, but didn't. There was a reason for that. I have driven a few DSG's, and it's not something I personally was a fan of.

The ultimate question is - the European Arteon reaches 60 in around mid 5 seconds by official claims and testing. If the 8 speed had a launch control built-in, could it match 5.5s? For sure! 
Without it, it does 5.9s-6s pretty easily. That answers the gearbox "speed" question. Also note, we get 268hp, and the DSG version gets 280hp.

Pretty sure with 12 extra horsepower, the 5.9s could turn into 5.7-5.8s. Subtract 0.2s and we get the European's 0-60 DSG time. From 60-120, I am 99.9% sure they have on par times, despite us having 12hp less. 

Imagine what it would do 0-60 with properly built-in launch control and optimized 8-speed shift points. It could be in the low 5s, easy!

Hopefully, this clears any confusion or myths


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## eteather (Feb 25, 2020)

sharif_armstrong said:


> If you are quoting Consumer reports, then they have achieved 8.1s 0-60 on the Arteon, which is nonsense (a Camry 2.5 has better times in their magazine). B.s, at its best. Even with 4 fat people in the car, it still does 0-60 within 7 seconds, without brake torquing. I have no idea what they did. Used 87 gas and went 30% on the throttle with 4 people in the car?:banghead: They also didn't mention is how much quicker the Arteon is 60-130, than that same 2020 Audi A6 2.0T. 60-130 it's similarly quick to my former 17' A7 3.0T. The A6 also uses a mild hybrid system, which helps with off the line acceleration from a launch, and gives a burst of torque at low speed, and makes for sweeter EPA estimates. The transmission in my A5 wasn't slick. It was more to the sluggish side, btw.
> 
> The Arteon within 6s to 60, on 93 gas, without launch control. Here is a dragy GPS test I found on Youtube, along with a few more tests and slips (which I can also send links to).
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i7E3aHLkMM
> ...


there is already someone on this forum getting 4.7 sec 0-60 with a Stage II on their Arteon....


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## av_audi (Apr 5, 2001)

sharif_armstrong said:


> They could have easily gone with dual-clutch transmissions, but didn't. There was a reason for that. I have driven a few DSG's, and it's not something I personally was a fan of.


Thanks for all the good and useful information bits.

But as far as DSG, isn't it the standard transmission in Europe? I don't think the auto is even an option there.

In any case, I have pretty much given up on having manuals, and if I am going auto, I think I'd rather have a proven workhorse like the 8-speed. I am getting old anyway


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