# Most Powerfull TT RS with Loba Motorsport LO500P turbo.



## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

*From "Loba Motorsport GmbH" Facebook page.*

1st Place at TT Owners Dyno Day goes to Olly12 and his LO500P TTRS! Congratulations on the Victory.

This car is the most powerful LO500P TTRS we know about.
Perhaps worldwide strongest Audi TTRS with Plug & Play Hybrid turbocharger?

560,3PS with Sunaco 105 race fuel and WMI on a stock engine.

Video: https://www.youtube.com/embed/eRgE_yvQk3s


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Good fuel makes a huge difference on these engines


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

jaybyme said:


> Good fuel makes a huge difference on these engines


More like, Good fuel makes a huge difference when you have a mismatched turbine/compressor combo like the Loba, or even TTRS turbo stock. The TTRS turbine and shaft is the same k16 shaft found in the 996TT btw, which is insane considering the TTRS comp is almost 8mm bigger inducer, and the loba is ~12mm bigger. I'd love to see some manifold pressure readings. One can overcome a choked up hotside quite a bit with octane. The FSI combustion chamber common in the 2.0T, 2.5T, 2.5 MPI, and 5.0 v10 is one of the most resistant combustion chambers I have ever tuned on pump gas. 

Great results depending on what correction factors look like!!


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## milo (Feb 19, 2002)

Wow...Congrats!


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## EJF (Aug 21, 2013)

Where can I get that wing? It's perfect, just subtly wider than the stock wing. I love the look of it.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

URHank said:


> More like, Good fuel makes a huge difference when you have a mismatched turbine/compressor combo like the Loba, or even TTRS turbo stock. The TTRS turbine and shaft is the same k16 shaft found in the 996TT btw, which is insane considering the TTRS comp is almost 8mm bigger inducer, and the loba is ~12mm bigger. I'd love to see some manifold pressure readings. One can overcome a choked up hotside quite a bit with octane. The FSI combustion chamber common in the 2.0T, 2.5T, 2.5 MPI, and 5.0 v10 is one of the most resistant combustion chambers I have ever tuned on pump gas.
> 
> Great results depending on what correction factors look like!!



So what would you recommend?


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

Marty said:


> So what would you recommend?


Not really a recommendation, just an observation. Saying a motor likes octane is usually a phrase reserved for horrible combustion chambers that are prone to knock. The 07k TTRS engine is not one of those engines. Being a 5 cylinder nut, the old 10vt in the old rally quattros was one of those engines. Didn't matter how free flowing hte intake and exhaust was, it just didn't respond to pump gas nicely and needed either a bunch of race fuel, or a ton of water injection to help quench detonation.

I know why Loba is just putting big compressors on and clipping the k16 wheel, but it is a bandaid in my opinion. The results of the modifications are really only going to be seen on higher octanes where higher EGTs can be masked. Furthermore, volumetric efficiency does not increase as it would if the turbine was opened up with a bigger wheel and/or hotside. This tends to show itself in lag where the added air can simply not leave the turbine. You end up with a relatively laggy setup for the gains.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Dyno runs on race gas and wmi are little more than a marketing exercise, anyway. It's not the kind of tuning that's practical for the street. And the TTRS is a street car.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Dyno runs on race gas and wmi are little more than a marketing exercise, anyway. It's not the kind of tuning that's practical for the street. And the TTRS is a street car.


So any plans to offer an uprated turbo for the TT-RS?


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

+1 for more turbo options. something with OEM fitment would be rad.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Dyno runs on race gas and wmi are little more than a marketing exercise, anyway. It's not the kind of tuning that's practical for the street. And the TTRS is a street car.


I'm in line for another turbo option. Take my money.


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Back to the spoiler anyone?


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Brd.Prey said:


> Back to the spoiler anyone?


It's made by Raeder Motorsport, a German Company.


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

I had no problems contacting Raeder directly about parts on their car for pricing and availability.


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## arnemeyer (Jan 9, 2012)

Fined said:


> I had no problems contacting Raeder directly about parts on their car for pricing and availability.



I second this. They got back to me within a few days regarding questions about any of their parts I've seen floating on the internet.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

hightechrdn said:


> So any plans to offer an uprated turbo for the TT-RS?


You folks realize that just a plain ole stock replacement K16 will run you around $2500, yes? This is not a cheap part. Granted we can do the hybrid thing for less than Loba, but nevertheless…it'd be pricey.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

I think it would make no sense to develop a turbo kit at this point, for a car that is no longer in production.
The current TT RS was a somewhat low volume selling car and just a very small group of 2.5 TFSI owners would do a bigger turbo change.

Beside that, at this point everything suggest a 2.0 TFSI engine for the next Gen TT RS and RS3 and a unknown 2.5 TFSI engine future.

IMHO, When Audi does not show a 2.5 TFSI concept at "Worthersee 2014", i think the 2.5 TFSI engine is dead in the water with little to no future.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I hope that's not the case after Audi said the 5 cylinder is part of Audi and will be in the future.
If it does happen though,it will mean that the older TTRS's and RS3's will be sort after and hold their value well.
I know if the next TTRS is a four pot,I will consider keeping mine for the long foreseeable future instead of just a year or so.


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

R5T said:


> I think it would make no sense to develop a turbo kit at this point, for a car that is no longer in production.
> The current TT RS was a somewhat low volume selling car and just a very small group of 2.5 TFSI owners would do a bigger turbo change.
> 
> Beside that, at this point everything suggest a 2.0 TFSI engine for the next Gen TT RS and RS3 and a unknown 2.5 TFSI engine future.
> ...


Thanks for the dose of reality...

BTW... At some point, displacement really does matter. If Audi is going to offer a TT-RS again, it will need more than a 2.0L 4-cyl to be competitive.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

The rs model is always 2 years behind the base model. I think it is pretty early to dismiss the 5 cylinder regardless of what cards audi is showing at these shows.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> You folks realize that just a plain ole stock replacement K16 will run you around $2500, yes? This is not a cheap part. Granted we can do the hybrid thing for less than Loba, but nevertheless…it'd be pricey.


For those considering stage 3, it really isn't all that much given the alternatives. Having a hybrid upgrade from a US company is great for customer support and also saves us a ton on shipping especially if you did core exchanges/customer turbo upgrades.

The demographic buying a TTRS is probably well enough off to stomach a hybrid upgrade cost twice the price of a Golf hybrid.


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

URHank said:


> The rs model is always 2 years behind the base model. I think it is pretty early to dismiss the 5 cylinder regardless of what cards audi is showing at these shows.


My thoughts as well. And in contrast to all the debbie-downer crap, Audi has also made statements at some of the shows that the 5 cylinder TFSI engine will live on.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

as350 said:


> My thoughts as well. And in contrast to all the debbie-downer crap, Audi has also made statements at some of the shows that the 5 cylinder TFSI engine will live on.


Audi did not say the 5 cylinder live on.
Audi said that the 5 cilinder is a Part of Audi and will always be.
That does not say much about future use, Audi and 5 cylinder will always be in one censes.
The 5 cylinder is one of those engines that make no money it only cost money, the 2.0 TFSI is the money maker within VAG.


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## as350 (Nov 8, 2011)

I don't mean to thread-jack, but here is Audi saying the 2.5 will be part of the next TT lineup:

Leftlanenews

"The 2015 TT will come standard with a 227-horsepower version of Audi's 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder engine. The more expensive TTS will use a 306-horsepower four-banger while the range-topping TT-RS will be powered by a 380-horsepower five-cylinder mill. Both front- and all-wheel drive will be offered, and buyers will be able to choose between a six-speed manual transmission and a dual-clutch DSG unit."


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

Dat is what "LeftLane" say. 
And probably thinkt what could be, wishfull Thinking. 

Most German magazines are saying that the next RS3 will have a 2.0 TFSI, meaning that only the Q3 Rs remain using the engine.
The reason that the 2.5TFSI engine cost money, is because it is use in a very small number of cars.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

R5T said:


> Audi did not say the 5 cylinder live on.
> Audi said that the 5 cilinder is a Part of Audi and will always be.
> That does not say much about future use, Audi and 5 cylinder will always be in one censes.
> The 5 cylinder is one of those engines that make no money it only cost money, the 2.0 TFSI is the money maker within VAG.


quattro GMBH has also said that the 2.0L is not a quattro engine while the 2.5TFSI is.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

R5T said:


> The reason that the 2.5TFSI engine cost money, is because it is use in a very small number of cars.


As somebody that is putting a NA based 730 WHP 07k 2.5T into an Mk2 TT DSG, let me assure you, 95% or more of the parts are identical to the 2.5TFSI motor. The 2.5L was/is a motor that is EVERYTHING. ~130k motors sold per year from 2005-2013. It was built as a "cheap engine" displacement alternative to the 2.0T a matter of fact. This isn't to say there aren't unique TFSI parts, but a lot of the changes are the same sort of changes you see between the 2.0T in a TT base model and a 2.0T TTS, ie different manifolds, differnt turbo, uprated rods, uprated pistons, crank, "different head material" but casted in the same foundry, etc. The pistons in the TFSI 2.5T are just FSI cast pistons, the valve springs, retainers, valves, roller rockers, combustion chamber, etc are all items shared from the FSI 2.0T AND the 07k NA, AND the Gallardo 5.0 for that matter. Not a whole lot of unique parts JUST to the 2.5TFSI

















That is a Gallardo vs 07k 2.5, cams fit, wrong firing order though.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

URHank said:


> As somebody that is putting a NA based 730 WHP 07k 2.5T into an Mk2 TT DSG


That is an ambitious project! Are you doing a thread about it? We are doing a "poor mans" variant on this with a Mk1 TT225. And I certainly hope the dire predictions of the 2.5TFSI are wrong. It seems they should be expanding its use rather than abandoning it.


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## R5T (Apr 7, 2010)

The transverse 2.5 TFSI is a quattro GmbH engine and will not be used in other VAG cars.
At this point only the Q3 RS is the remaining car that use it, i wonder for how long.


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## Fined (Sep 3, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> If it does happen though,it will mean that the older TTRS's and RS3's will be sort after and hold their value well.
> I know if the next TTRS is a four pot,I will consider keeping mine for the long foreseeable future instead of just a year or so.



My thoughts exactly. If the next TTRS does not have a 5 Cylinder.. and none of the other coming RS cars has one then it will force my hand at holding onto my current RS longer than just the 3 more years I had planned.

Don't know what to make of it but.. i read on FB of all places.. a friend of a friend works at Audi UK and said that there really are no plans on continuing 2.5L 5 Cylinder for the next TTRS.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

R5T said:


> The transverse 2.5 TFSI is a quattro GmbH engine and will not be used in other VAG cars.
> At this point only the Q3 RS is the remaining car that use it, i wonder for how long.


Yes, it was fine tuned through GmbH, but not a ground up design through GmbH. It still has every part number on it starting with 07k, which is the preface number for all chain driven R5 engines. This is a for the masses long block with a few added bonuses for the TTRS mill. If I can be even more clear, I could easily build a motor for a TTRS from the humble beginnings of a NA 2.5 port injected motor. There are a few minor differences on the blocks for the turbo coolants/lubricants and a "different material being used", but for the most part, with GDI machining on the head and a TTRS cam girdle, a 2.5 from a Jetta is the ancestor of the TTRS mill, not the other way around. 


The 2.5 NA into the mk2 TT was not a daunting task as it was a factory swap using Jetta parts. IE just using Jetta mounts, dog bones, harnesses, exchangers, sensors, etc. They even both use meX17.5 ECUs. 

BTW, the prefix on the v10 R8 and Gallardo motors?..... 07L, as in the number after K. It's all in the family at VAG. 

Hank


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Don't be too quick to discount the 2.5T, the major expense was R&D and tooling the foundry, both are sunk costs now. It is all Quattro has with more performance head room and easily fits in the MQB platform. Also, you don't shelve your one and only fancy new engine developed for the next line of small RS cars and go back to an over blown tarted up 2.0T like what they talk about in the R400. The marketing department loves calling anything 2.5T rally-infused-Quattro-heritage-inspired and people eat that line all day long to have something "special".

This looks promising for the 2.5T also:
http://jalopnik.com/the-audi-a3-clubsport-quattro-is-a-525-hp-five-cylinder-1576794594


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

CarbonRS said:


> Don't be too quick to discount the 2.5T, the major expense was R&D and tooling the foundry, both are sunk costs now. It is all Quattro has with more performance head room and easily fits in the MQB platform. Also, you don't shelve your one and only fancy new engine developed for the next line of small RS cars and go back to an over blown tarted up 2.0T like what they talk about in the R400. The marketing department loves calling anything 2.5T rally-infused-Quattro-heritage-inspired and people eat that line all day long to have something "special".
> 
> This looks promising for the 2.5T also:
> http://jalopnik.com/the-audi-a3-clubsport-quattro-is-a-525-hp-five-cylinder-1576794594


You beat me to it! LOL

"Based on the S3 Sedan*, the show car is equipped with a powerful five‑cylinder TFSI engine. The turbocharged engine with direct injection in the show car boasts an impressive success story. Since 2010, an expert jury has already voted it “International Engine of the Year” in its category four times in succession. The 2.5 TFSI powers the production Audi RS Q3*. In the show car, the 2,480 cc five‑cylinder produces 386 kW (525 hp) for a specific output of 155.6 kW (211.7 hp) per liter."

Hank


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

URHank said:


> You beat me to it! LOL
> 
> "Based on the S3 Sedan*, the show car is equipped with a powerful five‑cylinder TFSI engine. The turbocharged engine with direct injection in the show car boasts an impressive success story. Since 2010, an expert jury has already voted it “International Engine of the Year” in its category four times in succession. The 2.5 TFSI powers the production Audi RS Q3*. In the show car, the 2,480 cc five‑cylinder produces 386 kW (525 hp) for a specific output of 155.6 kW (211.7 hp) per liter."
> 
> Hank


It is awesome.  If that 211hp per liter number hits production with OEM reliability, I wonder what they changed besides a bigger turbo. I really hate the underwhelming top end we have on the TTRS.


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## URHank (Mar 19, 2009)

CarbonRS said:


> It is awesome.  If that 211hp per liter number hits production with OEM reliability, I wonder what they changed besides a bigger turbo. I really hate the underwhelming top end we have on the TTRS.


If I had to guess, I'd say they are still just using the k16, but with a Loba type upgrade mentioned in this thread. It would just be too easy for them to do. They probably dug around in the BW/KKK parts bin and came up with a K24.2 turbine and put a 54ish mm wheel on it inside the oem housing. Sure, the oem housing AR is THE restriction, but a bigger turbine can cheat that, especially clipped. Overall efficiency is lost, but it is still more than stock. That is why the Loba type turbos are still so laggy with not a lot of gain still.

525hp is only around 400whp, which is dead easy for the 07k TFSI. Heck, we are doing that on the bone stock NA versions with turbos slapped to them. Guys are logging thousands of miles on them in that configuration with OEM type reliability. 

One thing for sure, if the clubsport did happen, i'd likely sell the farm to get one 

Hank


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