# MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question



## blstanle (Jun 10, 2009)

In all the DIY threads related to replacing the rear brakes and rotors on the MKV5, they show the removal of the caliper carrier bolts (14mm triple squares) in order to get to the rotor off and on. I was just talking to the parts department at my local VW dealer regarding the rear carrier bolts thinking I needed to replace them when I change the rotors. He indicated they do not stock these bolts so I asked if they replace them in the service department when they do a brake job. He said that they are able to "slide" the rotor out and back in without removing the carrier bolts hence no need to replace. Can anyone confirm this can in fact be done? Thanks


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (blstanle)*

I couldn't do it..I tried since that's the way my Passat rears ( and MKIV's) work..you can angle rotor and remove it with carriers in place. The MK V rear caliper is a different design and the carrier has a bar that runs between the top and bottom of the carrier on the front side...those carrier bolts are a betch to get out as well!....You need a super short 14mm triple square bit...my SnapOn that I bought to do front suspension was just too long (even after dremelin off as much as possible of the hex part) to allow for a straight shot at the bolts (rear suspension parts in the way)..you need straight shot at the bolt heads to prevent strippin out the triple square..and they are stretch torqued..super tight! Found very short bit on Metalnerd website (1/2 price of SnapON.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) Make sure you get car up hi off floor unless you're Mr. America..you'll need a cheater pipe on your breaker bar to get that last 1/4 turn of stretch torque on the bolts!


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## V_TDI (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (blstanle)*

I'm resurrecting this thread as I have the same question and am still a bit confused as to why 2 of the dealers I spoke with seem to believe they can remove the rotor without taking the carrier off... below is my situation (note this is cross-posted at tdiclub.com):
I am about to do a full brake job on my '06 Jetta TDI including new front/rear rotors/pads, Tyrol bushing kit, SS lines, flush, etc.







As I compile the tools needed and research every DIY available, I have two (related) remaining questions:
1) What is the part number for the rear caliper carrier stretch bolts that I need to order from the dealer? (The ones needing the 14mm Triple-square bit)
2) And, do I absolutely need to remove the caliper carrier to remove the rear rotor? 
To the second question, every DIY out there says I need to remove the carrier, but in reading the Bentley, I can't find reference to needing to remove this.







Additionally, after visiting two dealers, I've found that no one knows what I'm referring to when I ask for these bolts (hence the first question).







One even when as far as to say that they've never ordered them for any MKV rear brake job (hence the second question).








Thanks in advance for the advice.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (V_TDI)*

I took my rear carriers off since I was upgrading to larger GTI rear rotors and had to change the dust shield to do that...I'd sure like to know that the carriers don't need to come off to swap rotors next time around, since those bolts are an absolute betch to get out and torqued back in...with car on jackstands I just couldn't get enuff UMPH to break em loose with jjust a breaker bar...will jack car up way higher so I can put a pipe cheater on the breaker if I have to pull em again. I sure hope these dealer parts guys are right when they say "no need to pull those bolts...that's why we don't stock 'em"....and they're not just saying that to cover for their service depts who are reusing stretch bolts!







Not good to reuse stretch bolts...they've been stretch torqued into their "yield stress" on the first install...and reusin leaves you open to stress fracture failure...been more than a few of those reported by guys reusing the crank gear bolt on the MKIII/MIV 2.0L's when changin front oil seals...when those bolts let go, and the crank gear/pulley start comin off...nasty things follow!


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (spitpilot)*

I posted the "do you have to remove the carrier to swap out rotors?" question on the MKV Forum and got a resounding YES!...So those parts guys who don't stock carrier bolts and say "you don't need to pull carriers to swap rotors" are just blowin smoke to cover up for their shoddy techs who are reusing the stretch torqued carrier bolts when they do rear rotor replacement...can you spell" lawsuit" if one fails and an accident happens!


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## V_TDI (Oct 13, 2009)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (spitpilot)*

Thanks for all the input. Am I missing where the Bentley manual says the carrier needs to be removed? Try to go by the book most times and just got confused.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (V_TDI)*

Bentley (the new one for MKV GTI & Rabbit) doesn't secifically have a proceedure for changin rotors..just one for pads. So no you didn't miss the info..Bentley just doesn't cover it. I've noticed that the Bentley manuals for my last two VW's (B5 Passat and MKV) are way less detailed on mechanical processes than my Ol MKI Rabbit and MKIII Golf manuals...yet they are way thicker...many more pages on electronics and diagnosis thereof. Older manuals had more on engine overhaul, and with the MKI even tranny overhaul...none of that is covered (beyond removing engine head) in the MKV manual.


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## dieselraver (Nov 11, 2007)

so as a general consensus. since we are in the middle of a two day brake/rotor replacement job. the carrier bolts should be replaced yay or nay? and does VW/service replace these bolts when you bring your car to them? btw... we managed to strip just one side of a carrier bolt and now its a betch to get off... we got the 14mm triple square tool from snap on but the bolt is a bit messed up and we are trying to get the tool to fit... wish us luck


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: (dieselraver)*

Try shooting BP Blaster down behind the rotor onto the tips of the carrier bolts usin the little red tube that comes with the Blaster..that helped me break those suckers loose. Good luck usin the Snapon tool..it was just too big to get a straight shot at the bolts when tryin to work around the suspension stuff that's in the way..You must have triple square bit straight on the bolt head to prevent havin the tool roll outa the bolt and strippin the star pattern. I you do strip pattern you might be able to open it up again with a tiny bit on a dremel or jewler's file so you can get bit to sit down into the head again. I used "cheater bar" pipe handle on my breaker to get those suckers off...to torque em back on is a betch too....first stage is 66 ft lb..no sweat...then 1/4 turn more..thats where it gets hard! Beacause your putting the bolts into their yield stretch...DO NOT REUSE any stretch torqued bolt. If you want a reason..go search on the 2.0L engine forum for threads like "crank pulley came off"....guys reused their main crank gear bolts..also stretch torqued...and they suffered stress fracture failures...not something you want to happen on your brake carrier bolts either!


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## dieselraver (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: (spitpilot)*

heh, well lets put it this way, my friend works at a dealer (not VW) we got the parts OEM from VW. rear brake pads and rotors all together from dealer to dealer cost $136.00. at VW to buy/install it was about $500.00 just for the rears including labor. 
it took 3 full days to change the rear rotors. 
day 1 - changed pads, attempted to change rotors, did not have the tool, wound up stripping a carrier bolt
day 2 - got the parts to change the carrier bolt a 14mm triple square tool and his assortment of snap-on breaker bars etc. found out bolt was damaged after we jacked the car all the way up on a michellin jack (heavy duty)
day 3 - at his dealership after hours using the lift. had to use a stripped bolt tool to remove the carrier bolt. picked up 3 oem carriers (b/c i read all the previous posts about how these bolts are torqued past their capacity and fracture risks of reusing.) 
included are some pictures below. enjoy








































This last picture is where the carrier bolt was damaged and had to be removed via a stripped lug tool. also having access to a lift was the ONLY way to remove this bolt (we tried for about 7 hours with no luck)


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (blstanle)*

I would be surprised if you could remove the disk without removing the caliper brkt. Only judging by those pictures, the hat depth seems too deep for that to be possible.
Does the bently 'actualy' state to replace the bolts because of stretch? There can be other reasons to replace bolts.....On brakes, stretch bolts are no benefit, the joint is very rigid, I would not think vw would apply it (IMO). Honestly speaking I have never replaced my caliper brkt bolts ever and I have taken them off several times on my GTi. 
There are OEM applications that use flanged M12 and M14 grade 8 bolts, nothing special but corrosion and K-factor coatings...these bolts are reusable.


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## dieselraver (Nov 11, 2007)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_I would be surprised if you could remove the disk without removing the caliper brkt. Only judging by those pictures, the hat depth seems too deep for that to be possible.
Does the bently 'actualy' state to replace the bolts because of stretch? There can be other reasons to replace bolts.....On brakes, stretch bolts are no benefit, the joint is very rigid, I would not think vw would apply it (IMO). Honestly speaking I have never replaced my caliper brkt bolts ever and I have taken them off several times on my GTi. 
There are OEM applications that use flanged M12 and M14 grade 8 bolts, nothing special but corrosion and K-factor coatings...these bolts are reusable.

for sure you can NOT replace the rotors without removing the brackets. also my year car 2008 came in two varieties a 2008 and 2008.5 guess which model is a betch to do maintainence on.







yep my car the 2008. the 2008.5 rotors are replaced with a 4 bolt set. not sure what it looks like. mine is a 5 bolt. i know the newer model (TFSI) build time is considerably less. thus making manufacturing and maintaining a lot less expensive. mine is the fsi-turbo. HTH


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (GTijoejoe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTijoejoe* »_
Does the bently 'actualy' state to replace the bolts because of stretch? There can be other reasons to replace bolts.....On brakes, stretch bolts are no benefit, the joint is very rigid, I would not think vw would apply it (IMO). Honestly speaking I have never replaced my caliper brkt bolts ever and I have taken them off several times on my GTi. 
There are OEM applications that use flanged M12 and M14 grade 8 bolts, nothing special but corrosion and K-factor coatings...these bolts are reusable.

Yes...Bentley says "always replace"....the torque spec is your key..if its just a straight number..like "torque to 85 ft lbs"...then bolts are reusable..if it says "torque to XX ft lbs + 1/4 (or 1/2) turn more"...those are strretch torqued fasteners on MK V I've found the following one time use fasteners when doing my brake and suspesnion mods: front suspension strut clamp bolts, rear shock mount bolts, rear axle bolts, rear brake carrier bolts. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VwGTIKid (May 1, 2006)

*Re: MKV Rear Brake Caliper Carrier Bolts Question (spitpilot)*

not to bump an old thread but I spent 7 hours as well trying to get this off...torch the bolt, pb blaster....still didnt work..impact gun...fail number 3






















Going to the shop ..ill fork the 360 bucks to replace the pads and rotors and not be bothered


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## rcoppa83 (Nov 12, 2007)

Does anyone have the VW part number for the caliper carrier "Strech Bolt?" I called VW and they said the part number is "wht-003-250," which is the caliper bolt, not the caliper carrier bolt.


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## rcoppa83 (Nov 12, 2007)

The part number is N91006802.
While I'm on the topic of VW and wrong part numbers. If you ever find the need to repair the rear caliper boot on your 2007 GLI, THE PART IN VW'S COMPUTER IS WRONG. I needed to order the part number for the 2007 *GTI,* and that did the trick.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

Shoot an email to Zeb @ 1stVW parts and ask for part # and price for carrier bolts for rear MKV brakes..he'll give you good info..knows his s#'t!


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## XLR-8 (May 11, 2010)

*Who is Likely to have most up to date information?*

I also talked to the service manager and parts desk at three local VW dealers. They all insist that the caliper carrier bolts are reusable.

It is difficult to believe that there is a vast conspiracy among VW dealer service departments to knowingly refuse to follow VAG recommended safety procedures to save $12 worth of bolts on a complete rear brake job $300-$450, risking customer safety and exposure to lawsuits.

It is also difficult to believe that Bentley Publishing Service manual printed 4 years has better, more current information than 6 out of 6 randomly selected VW dealers.

The most rational answer is "Yes the bolts are reusable"


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## mp006ltk (Mar 15, 2009)

*They are NOT reusable bolts!*

I use the VW factory service system and not the bently service manual and the factory system says replace the bolts. Just becasye 6 out of 6 dealers think something doesn't mean they are right. The best example I can think of is the DSG fluid. Ask 6 dealers and you are probably going to get 6 service managers telling your that it's a lifetime fluid. 

The extra 1/4 turn takes the steel from elastic deformation to plastic. They will and do develop tiny fractures. Will it fail? Probably not. Do 2 - 3 brake jobs with the same bolts and then probably the bolts will break off durring tightening or removel. They aren't expensive, just replace them. 


Unfortunately the idiot who designed the thing left no clearance for a socket and socket wrench. With only a 12 pointed bit, the angle between teeth is almost impossible to use a breaker bar. 

I runied a 3/8" torque wrench becase it was the only thing that would fit and be long enough to tighten the stupid bolts. I still didn't get them all the way. From now on, I'm just tightening them to the limit on a 3/8" torque wrench with blue thread locker and call it a day. I asked a few VW mechanics at the dealer and they confessed that they had no idea how to get the bolts tightened to spec and just get them as tight as they can and call it a day.


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## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

I used super short 14mm triple square bit...and a "wobble" extension for my 1/2" socket set...had to put a "cheater pipe" on the breaker bar to get that last 1/4 turn on there!...So put car way up on jackstands if you're not using lift..to give enuff space to get very long lever arm...unless you're Popeye and have those bulgin arms!


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## odanny (Jul 15, 2014)

XLR-8 said:


> I also talked to the service manager and parts desk at three local VW dealers. They all insist that the caliper carrier bolts are reusable.
> 
> It is difficult to believe that there is a vast conspiracy among VW dealer service departments to knowingly refuse to follow VAG recommended safety procedures to save $12 worth of bolts on a complete rear brake job $300-$450, risking customer safety and exposure to lawsuits.
> 
> ...


It might make sense to replace them, but I'm not replacing mine. I got the driver side bolts out okay, but right now am waiting for the PB Blaster to take effect on the passenger side. 

I'm still not completely sure of the torque spec. I've read 140 ft. lbs. It seems to me that it's almost impossible to get 140 ft. lbs. of torque when lying on the ground and your car on jackstands, there just isn't enough room down there to get that kind of leverage. I've since read 59 lbs. on this forum, which sounds more like it. Not sure on whether to use anti-seize, and I'm reusing the old bolts, so I'm not going that route.


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## Wayne Kerr (Jun 25, 2016)

Sorry for the zombie bump, but I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having trouble with these. I wrecked my socket driver trying to get these off with a 4-ft cheater. I used a whole can of PB blaster, an acetylene torch, and couldn't get any of them to budge. I finally resorted to the 1200 ft-lb impact driver and, predictably, sheared off the head. I'm thinking I should just snap them all off and get drilling.


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