# Help with audi tt cluster swap for a volkswagen new beetle



## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

Hello everyone as you all see, i bought a cluster from a junkyard from a mk1 tt, and I'm currently doing the wiring harness for it to work with the existing wiring of my new beetle, I'm doing this first and then I'll make the custom panel for the cluster.

Anyway, I've noticed some issues while I've doing this.

1) for the owners of the tt Mk1, does your cluster lights up when you open a door or trunk, or it just remains black and only works when you put the car into ACC/ON position? I have the schematic and everything goes where it is supposed, the constant 12v and the acc 12v.

2) for the RPM signal wire, where does it go? And is there any chance i can run that cabe somewhere on my beetle? Because on my beetle the RPMs are controlled by the CAN bus and not the single wire.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

And finally 

3) do you guys know where do pin 6 and 25 go from the blue connector?








It says that pin 6 is for the obd2 tank warning but in the audi tt doesn't seem to have that cable, so where does it go? What it does? And is it relevant?
And the pin 25 says consumption signal? What is it for? I'm assuming it is for you to know how much fuel you have used, but what it does? And where does it go? 

As for right now, the gas gauge doesn't seem to work but i think it could be either be the stepper motor or one of these cables. 

Please help me, as i would like to have my custom speedometer in working order so i can help people that want to do the tt dash swap and have to change the cluster or they just want a better cluster than the one on the beetle 98-2010.


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## mdjenkins (Feb 16, 2010)

Have you checked the EWD's in the Bentley manual?
Seems your answers could be found there.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

mdjenkins said:


> Have you checked the EWD's in the Bentley manual?
> Seems your answers could be found there.


Hi, unfortunately i wasn't able to find those on Google, i only found one for 150 and I'm not even sure if the question would be answered but i think i found a temporary solution until someone wants to help so others can do this too.

So right now the gas gauge doesn't work and i made the rpm work but it isn't enough.

First the RPM, i found a video on YouTube that said to connect the RPM cable to the ignition coil of the car and it will pick up the signal, and the good news is that it did, but the bad news is that the rpm isn't accurate, for example, the gauge at idle is at around 400 rpm when in reality its a 900. And well you know it's just not what we want.

Second the gas gauge, this wouldn't be a problem only if the gas warning wouldn't show up on the display and the alarm keep beeping.

The solution that i found to make all of those be accurate, was to replace the gas and temp stepper motor (3 pin) for another 2 that are the ones that are used on the big gauges (4 pin stepper motor.) And, keep in mind that all cables go to the cluster exactly where they belong and there isn't any unnecessary lights.

So, i bought a 2001 volkswagen jetta cluster motherboard and i connect it to the main cables splicing wires and incredible that motherboard was plug and play, so i removed the stepper motors from the cluster, then i solder some wires were each stepper motor was (16 in total, 4 for each gauge) and i run those cables to the audi tt cluster and now i have the gauges working accurately, and the cluster works normal and does read the mileage, although the speed and temp gauge were unnecessary, i just decided to do it.

But not everything is great, the only nad thing here is the gas warning that the fis display show on the tt cluster, but everything else is normal.

So yeah that's how i do it, if there was a better method i would do it for sure, but this is the current solution as not many people seem interested to help and i had my car teardown, but if i got some help in the future with the rpm and gas gauge i would fix it.










Bonus:
Replacing the temp and gas stepper motor for the ones that are in the beetle cluster help to fix the issue where the gauges moved around or they were jumping out of place.

For those wondering how i was able to use this cluster without my original speedometer, it was simple but this ONLY works for the 2.0 engine, my car is a 2000 beetle and it had an immobilizer originally on it, but i had so many ECUs from 98s beetles that didn't have immo, i tried to use it and it worked, it fired up without the original key or cluster.
This works for beetles 2000-2005 with the 2.0 engine only.


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## mdjenkins (Feb 16, 2010)

young_rene_503 said:


> Hi, unfortunately i wasn't able to find those on Google, i only found one for 150 and I'm not even sure if the question would be answered but i think i found a temporary solution until someone wants to help so others can do this too.


That's probably because Bentley is a book publisher and their electrical wiring diagrams (EWD) are published in their books. Another option to get the EWDs is an Erwin subscription.



young_rene_503 said:


> So yeah that's how i do it, if there was a better method i would do it for sure, but this is the current solution as not many people seem interested to help and i had my car teardown, but if i got some help in the future with the rpm and gas gauge i would fix it.


 A method better than trial and error would be getting a copy of the EWDs and tracing each wire yourself. It's a very tedious process and prone to human error. Because of that, I wouldn't blame strangers for valuing their time at a rate higher than you're offering to solve your individual edge case for you. Don't expect others to devalue their time just because you value your time less than the purchase price of the EWDs



young_rene_503 said:


> For those wondering how i was able to use this cluster without my original speedometer, it was simple but this ONLY works for the 2.0 engine, my car is a 2000 beetle and it had an immobilizer originally on it, but i had so many ECUs from 98s beetles that didn't have immo, i tried to use it and it worked, it fired up without the original key or cluster.
> This works for beetles 2000-2005 with the 2.0 engine only.


I've traced enough EWD's to expect your solution is only a solution for your exact scenario until proven otherwise. Unfortunately, there's such a wide variety of potential scenarios, the applicability of your found solution is severely limited. Please do not mistake this as denying its adaptability. 

All that said, congrats on getting lucky in finding an non-immo cluster that works with your car. I'm sure if you keep at the blind trial and error you'll either solve your remaining issues or let out some smoke. Best of luck.


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## jetta 971 (Jul 25, 2009)

Here is the pin out for TT and beetle . But one thing you need to know that VW works on CAN Gateway in Cluster , and AUDI do not , Audi has all module goes in /out of cluster via CAN wires. Also Gray connector will be your big challenge , that is for LCD display .


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> Here is the pin out for TT and beetle . But one thing you need to know that VW works on CAN Gateway in Cluster , and AUDI do not , Audi has all module goes in /out of cluster via CAN wires. Also Gray connector will be your big challenge , that is for LCD display .


Thanks for that, i see what you mean, and yes volkswagen has the gateway for their clusters but i thought they were only used on the ones that had a display on it.

Also, i see you mentioned that the audi has modules going in and out and etc, but when i got the cluster originally, there wasn't really the can wiring on the connectors, but in the volkswagen beetle, the can controls the RPM, the check engine, abs, air bag light etc, and the tt is controlled by a wire each light/gauge.

So here's the thing, i saw that old beetles (early models 1998) were the same as the audi tt, where everything controlled in the cluster was by a wire, so my question is would i be able to swap the dash wiring from a old beetle and be able to wire everything up as it currently is? Or would i also need the engine harness and interior harness? Just to clarify my beetle is a manual, and the one on the junkyard is also a manual. And the parts are cheap, it's just a Matter of fact that everything works.
I have my local junkyard its 5 mins away, and since i started this, i noticed that 98s beetle didn't have the can bus going to the cluster nor immobilizer, but still i just don't want to spend money and not being worth it you know.
If some how that would work, i would bu the tt dashboard and the center console to install it on my beetle as the parts are cheaper and i wouldn't have to make a custom dash panel for the tt cluster.


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## jetta 971 (Jul 25, 2009)

young_rene_503 said:


> Thanks for that, i see what you mean, and yes volkswagen has the gateway for their clusters but i thought they were only used on the ones that had a display on it.
> 
> Also, i see you mentioned that the audi has modules going in and out and etc, but when i got the cluster originally, there wasn't really the can wiring on the connectors, but in the volkswagen beetle, the can controls the RPM, the check engine, abs, air bag light etc, and the tt is controlled by a wire each light/gauge.
> 
> ...


It is not harness , 98 and 99 was NONE CAN BUS cars , and they had different ECU , which you already have in car and I think that is your problem. 
2000 Audi TT rpm should be control by CAN Bus. I suggest you put original ECU back in car and start it, I know it will run for 2-3 sec and turn off , but you will see will Rpm move . Also you need to find Wiring diagram from both cars and make sure you run Can-H and Can-L between cluster and ECU.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> It is not harness , 98 and 99 was NONE CAN BUS cars , and they had different ECU , which you already have in car and I think that is your problem.
> 2000 Audi TT rpm should be control by CAN Bus. I suggest you put original ECU back in car and start it, I know it will run for 2-3 sec and turn off , but you will see will Rpm move . Also you need to find Wiring diagram from both cars and make sure you run Can-H and Can-L between cluster and ECU.


Okay that could be why it isn't working, that's a good point, I'll try and I'll give you an update.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> It is not harness , 98 and 99 was NONE CAN BUS cars , and they had different ECU , which you already have in car and I think that is your problem.
> 2000 Audi TT rpm should be control by CAN Bus. I suggest you put original ECU back in car and start it, I know it will run for 2-3 sec and turn off , but you will see will Rpm move . Also you need to find Wiring diagram from both cars and make sure you run Can-H and Can-L between cluster and ECU.


Also i see, that on the green and blue connector there the can high and can low for the cluster, but what about the one that says can high (screen)? How would that work? And would that be relevant to the cluster if there's nothing going to that cable? I see it says can high, but in which of the two cables should be connected? + or -


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## jetta 971 (Jul 25, 2009)

young_rene_503 said:


> Also i see, that on the green and blue connector there the can high and can low for the cluster, but what about the one that says can high (screen)? How would that work? And would that be relevant to the cluster if there's nothing going to that cable? I see it says can high, but in which of the two cables should be connected? + or -


The main one is 18 and 19 , I would not worry about 20.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

Update:

I tried the original ECU but Nothing happened, it did the same thing, i believe the cluster that i got is only designed for the tt that isn't equipped with CAN, the car that i got it from was from a 2000 audi tt. 

I believe my best bet would be to have the beetle ECU wiring so i can run some cables from the ecu to cluster.

I went back to the junkyard to track the cables down from the audi tt and i saw that the rpm wire goes to the ecu same as the consumption wire but i doubt that in the beetle those cables go into the same connector or same pin number.


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## jetta 971 (Jul 25, 2009)

young_rene_503 said:


> Update:
> 
> I tried the original ECU but Nothing happened, it did the same thing, i believe the cluster that i got is only designed for the tt that isn't equipped with CAN, the car that i got it from was from a 2000 audi tt.
> 
> ...


2000 Cluster should be CAN cluster , What is the part number on TT cluster?
Other thing is You have to make sure you have CAN-H and CAN-L hooked up between ECU and Cluster
This should be pin out for your ECU :
CAN-H = pin 41( big connector )
CAN-L = pin 29 ( big connector )

Then yo have to check Cluster set up with VCDS in adaption ,
10-Adapation ch 60,61,62


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> 2000 Cluster should be CAN cluster , What is the part number on TT cluster?
> Other thing is You have to make sure you have CAN-H and CAN-L hooked up between ECU and Cluster
> This should be pin out for your ECU :
> CAN-H = pin 41( big connector )
> ...


Yes with your first question the serial number, if it's the one that is under the bar code, it's gone because i had to modify the outter shell to run some jumper wires from the jetta cluster to the stepper motors
But here's what is left

















Anyway, when i got the cluster, on the green connector, there wasn't any CAN wire same as the gray connector, there was just empty slots and well there are some lights that are also controlled through a ground cable but that's not a big deal, but something to point out is that my cluster, doesn't have the little light from the immobilizer, never light up, even when i adapted the transponder wires on green connector pin 2 and 17. 

I would check if the CAN wires of the beetle are hooked up to the ECU, which most likely is.

And with your last question, the cluster set up_*, do *i need any pin or skc to access this cluster through vag com? 









i forgot to mention that the car were i got the cluster was a 1.8L engine, i don't know if this matters_


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## jetta 971 (Jul 25, 2009)

young_rene_503 said:


> Yes with your first question the serial number, if it's the one that is under the bar code, it's gone because i had to modify the outter shell to run some jumper wires from the jetta cluster to the stepper motors
> But here's what is left
> 
> 
> Anyway, when i got the cluster, on the green connector, there wasn't any CAN wire same as the gray connector, there was just empty slots and well there are some lights that are also controlled through a ground cable but that's not a big deal, but something to point out is that my cluster, doesn't have the little light from the immobilizer, never light up, even when i adapted the transponder wires on green connector pin 2 and 17.


That is not part number just serila number , Go with VCDS and see what part number you have it will be Upper left corner , But I can see form Date was built it is 2001 and should be Can Bus cluster.

You do not have Immo light because you have NONE immobilizer cluster, Audi TT did not have Immobilizer till second half of year the 2001 .


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> That is not part number just serila number , Go with VCDS and see what part number you have it will be Upper left corner , But I can see form Date was built it is 2001 and should be Can Bus cluster.
> 
> You do not have Immo light because you have NONE immobilizer cluster, Audi TT did not have Immobilizer till second half of year the 2001 .


 Yes i was expecting that, i will buy the vcds kit to work on it and i'll keep you updated 

but after thinking i realized something, do you remember that i said that i got the car from a 2000/01 mk1? It is impossible to have a cluster from 2001/05, so i think this is what's going on, the owner of the wreck car might have had some problems with the old cluster (original) and they bought another onw (the one i have) but as they say it didn't work properly because it was CAN they changed the settings with VCDS to the non can version or perhaps the cluster was pulled out from another car with the same set up.

I don't know it's just a guess because why would a mk1 from jan of 2000 have a cluster from a mk1 of may 2001 

Another thing, do you think this one would work? Or should i buy the VCDS kit? They would end up costing the same.








Its from qn ebay auction


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## jetta 971 (Jul 25, 2009)

Well I just see that you replace Steeper motors form Jetta cluster to TT, Those are 2 different Manufacturing VDO Simens Vs Magneti MArrelli , we talking about BIG Difference here , This could be your problem as well , Since you have signal wire run to cluster and had 400rpm.

BTW you do have CAN cluster middle number 920 is CAN , 919 was none CAN Cluster. I think with VCDS you can chnage some settings in Adaptations in CH 60 to get CAN bus rpm signal, it has been long time since I work on those.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> Well I just see that you replace Steeper motors form Jetta cluster to TT, Those are 2 different Manufacturing VDO Simens Vs Magneti MArrelli , we talking about BIG Difference here , This could be your problem as well , Since you have signal wire run to cluster and had 400rpm.
> 
> BTW you do have CAN cluster middle number 920 is CAN , 919 was none CAN Cluster. I think with VCDS you can chnage some settings in Adaptations in CH 60 to get CAN bus rpm signal, it has been long time since I work on those.


Okay, i see, that cluster you see that has 920 is a cluster that im planning to buy from an ebay auction.

Here's the thing, i replaced the stepper motors from the jetta cluster But, it isn't connected to the tt cluster board, instead those stepper motors are still controlled by the jetta cluster, i ran some cables to each stepper motor, that's how i made it to work on the cluster that i currently have, but the solution i see is that i can buy that cluster from ebay and connect it to the wiring that i have and it might work just fine, but the problem with that cluster is this one








It doesn't have the full display, but if it works with can, then I'm happy with it.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

At least everything seems to work except for the gas light and the MPG that used to work with the old settup


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> Well I just see that you replace Steeper motors form Jetta cluster to TT, Those are 2 different Manufacturing VDO Simens Vs Magneti MArrelli , we talking about BIG Difference here , This could be your problem as well , Since you have signal wire run to cluster and had 400rpm.
> 
> BTW you do have CAN cluster middle number 920 is CAN , 919 was none CAN Cluster. I think with VCDS you can chnage some settings in Adaptations in CH 60 to get CAN bus rpm signal, it has been long time since I work on those.


Update, i bought the cluster out of ebay, and this one seems to work fine except for an issue.

See this is the picture when its working.








rpm gauge signal is still low, but I'll figure it out, but All other readings (fuel, temp and speed) are accurate. And no lights on the dashboard, its perfect.

But here's the issue









Car starts, engine running, and speedometer turns on but, the 2 displays don't light up, gauges don't work and the back light doesn't work either.
The little screens and gauges start working after lets say 5 mins or so, i believe it could be a capacitor, but it could also be chip, but the back lights never turn on.

So yeah, first cluster (fail), second cluster (fail, but not at all)


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## jetta 971 (Jul 25, 2009)

young_rene_503 said:


> Update, i bought the cluster out of ebay, and this one seems to work fine except for an issue.
> 
> See this is the picture when its working.
> View attachment 92833
> ...


It is know problem on early TT, software need to be updated , but this can not be done with any regular tool. Need to do it direct on MCU.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

jetta 971 said:


> It is know problem on early TT, software need to be updated , but this can not be done with any regular tool. Need to do it direct on MCU.


I thought the same but i discovered that the MCU is bad 🙁

Because when i start the car every time, the little screens wouldn't work right away, same with the gauges, after 1 minute, the 2 screens start flickering and after 2 minutes of flickering they start flickering rapidly until the point they don't do it anymore, and i was hoping it could be a bad capacitor or something like that, but i found a video showing a cluster almost doing the same, and when they put heat on the mcu it instantly works, so i tried with mine putting heat on the mcu and you guessed, it worked right away, so there isn't much to do with this cluster to be honest, i know the mcu could be replaced but i cant program them and having someone to fix this cost around 300

I think im just going to use the parts from it like the gas and temp stepper motors as they seem to work fine but I'm not sure if my other cluster has a software issue or was the stepper motor that made the gas needle to not work properly. (Or it could also be the consumption wire, but i doubt it as the other one didn't need it to work properly).


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

Update to everyone that have been following this thread, this is how the final product of the dash panel for the audi tt cluster look like

























The vinyl isn't perfect but it's better than nothing tbh.


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## young_rene_503 (May 11, 2021)

This is how it looks once it's mounted


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