# Engine 'hiccup' at 2750k



## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

I have an 09 2.0T, MT with about 48k, APR stage I and Carbonio. 

I have had this annoying engine hiccup right at 2750k where the power delivery is not smooth. It is like a brief pause and drop in power as the engine revs, followed by a resumption of smooth power. It only happens at 2750k and is most noticeable in 2nd gear, though I can feel it in other gears as well. It only happens under partial throttle. With anything approaching heavy acceleration, it does not happen. 

It still happens in stock, but less noticeable.

At 39k I had the intake manifold and all injectors and plugs replaced along with a carbon clean. I had the hiccup before that work was done and still have it afterwards. No CELs with this. 

Any ideas? Does anyone else have anything like this?


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## PirelliGolf (Dec 16, 2005)

I'm experiencing something similar although i've never noted the rpm's when it happens. I've had mine in for the intake manifold replacement twice. They've done some kind of wiring repair, twice. And on the last visit, they said there was no signal between the pedal and the TB so they performed a pin test and ended up replacing the ECM. They had the car for 3 days and the hiccup is still present. My car is stock, no chip or intake although they did try blaming the sprint booster even after it was removed.


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## jspirate (Jan 15, 2011)

I am aiming to get similar mileage. Well done my friend! :thumbup:


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## doctrsnoop (Nov 18, 2008)

Yes I have something like this. No cel


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

I get this once every blue moon

But it's usually only one time during the drive & when I've got the cruise control set on a steady drive....it'll only hiccup/surge once, that's all
Happened on the freeway most of the time around 75mph

Took it to the dealer...no code, no issues they say


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

snobrdrdan said:


> Took it to the dealer...no code, no issues they say


Yes, that's the issue, with no code, the dealer is lost. I am considering taking it to a non-dealer mechanic who specializes in VWs and leave it chipped so you can really feel it.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Well he said they drove it and checked the readings when driving and it came back okay too


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

PirelliGolf said:


> I'm experiencing something similar although i've never noted the rpm's when it happens. I've had mine in for the intake manifold replacement twice. They've done some kind of wiring repair, twice. And on the last visit, they said there was no signal between the pedal and the TB so they performed a pin test and ended up replacing the ECM. They had the car for 3 days and the hiccup is still present. My car is stock, no chip or intake although they did try blaming the sprint booster even after it was removed.


Did any of the work you had done on your car ever lessen or temporarily stop the hiccup?


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## PirelliGolf (Dec 16, 2005)

irongrey said:


> Did any of the work you had done on your car ever lessen or temporarily stop the hiccup?


Unfortunately not.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

PirelliGolf said:


> Unfortunately not.


Interesting. What is the ECM?

In any case, it eliminates more potential causes.


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## PirelliGolf (Dec 16, 2005)

irongrey said:


> Interesting. What is the ECM?
> 
> In any case, it eliminates more potential causes.


Engine Control Module (computer)


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Ok, so it isn't the plugs, it isn't the injectors, it isn't the intake manifold, it isn't carbon build up, it isn't the ECU... so what is it??? What's left? Fuel pump? Valves? Vacuum system? Coils?


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

*Problem solved*

So I finally took my car to a shop recommended by a friend and they diagnosed the problem with my car immediately. I have been having misfires in 2 cylinders which, as they explained, were not bad enough for them to show up as CELs. They suspected bad coils, replaced them, and the problem, after like 25k is finally gone. The mechanic also said that VW has a recall out on these coils and will reimburse me for the work. 

So why the hell couldn't the dealership detect the misfires and why didn't they notify me about the recall? I always had the feeling with the dealership that they were paint by numbers. If the problem wasn't obvious, they didn't seem to have any ability to think for themselves and dig a little deeper. 

The mechanic explained about how often the coils will go out on a chipped car, and he recommended to change the oil at least every 5k on a chipped car. Finally, someone who seems to know what they are talking about.


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## Brett_CC (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks for posting this. This has been annoying the hell out of me for a while now. I experience the same thing. I will call my dealer and see if there is a recall out for these cylinder springs. Its completely gone now? How much did it cost you if you dont mind posting?


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## EC8CH (Mar 21, 2012)

Brett_CC said:


> Thanks for posting this. This has been annoying the hell out of me for a while now. I experience the same thing. I will call my dealer and see if there is a recall out for these cylinder springs. Its completely gone now? How much did it cost you if you dont mind posting?


 Pretty sure when he says "coils" he means coil packs which are not springs.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Brett_CC said:


> Thanks for posting this. This has been annoying the hell out of me for a while now. I experience the same thing. I will call my dealer and see if there is a recall out for these cylinder springs. Its completely gone now? How much did it cost you if you dont mind posting?


 Yes, coil packs. They are $24 each and mechanic suggested I replace all of them at the same time. $100 for parts. $50 for labor. 

He also seemed fairly certain, given the recall, that VW would reimburse me for the parts.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

irongrey said:


> Yes, coil packs. They are $24 each and mechanic suggested I replace all of them at the same time. $100 for parts. $50 for labor.
> 
> He also seemed fairly certain, given the recall, that VW would reimburse me for the parts.


 Do you have the part number for the ones they used? 

There's an updated version (last letter of the part number tells you usually)...just wondering which ones they are using now


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

^ YEs! i agree with above, what is the latest Rev part# for the coils? 
I see some kits @ ecs tuning that have this one [07K 905 715F]


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Brett_CC said:


> Its completely gone now?


 Been driving it for 3 days now and haven't felt the hiccup once. 

Still surprised I could have been having misfires and no CELs. I guess misfires are not either/or things, but rather occur on a spectrum.


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## EC8CH (Mar 21, 2012)

irongrey said:


> Been driving it for 3 days now and haven't felt the hiccup once.
> 
> Still surprised I could have been having misfires and no CELs. I guess misfires are not either/or things, but rather occur on a spectrum.


 On my 99 A4 I had a horrible engine stuttering problem that would sometimes even kill the engine. But there was never any CEL code and the problem would be gone if you simply restarted the engine. Dealer could never fix it or tell me what was wrong until I limped it over to them and made them drive it without shutting it off. 

First Tech that drove with me was like "yeah that's weird it doesn't trigger the CEL light" he had no clue what was wrong. He called over to the tech with Porsche badge on. He was like "seems like you MAF is bad". Plugs it into their diagnostic tool and says "yep, no way your airflow is that high at idle". I told him thanks and I bought a MAF sensor and installed it myself. That ended my almost 2 year struggle. 

It's amazing issues like these don't store codes for techs to check especially considering how lost they are without them.


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

I have this stupid hiccup happening right now, I can't get the dealer to determine anything. I just bought the coils and plugs I'll post updates tomorrow after i change them for those interested. 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Hmm....re-read the first post and I've sort of had this issue...but only a couple times and it's ONLY on the freeway it's happened for just 1 time during a freeway drive....around 75mph. 
Stock tune and since 2k miles....hasn't happened in a long time though. 
I thought it was my Carbonio intake 

Part numbers for the new coils??? 


And do you "have to" change the spark plugs at the same time too? I only have 9k miles


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Bueller? 

It's either gonna be 07K905715F or 06H905115B or 06H905115A


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

snobrdrdan said:


> Bueller?
> 
> It's either gonna be 07K905715F or 06H905115B


 This is what i thought also, but every place i called asked for my vin and gave me 06H905115A , that F version youhave there apparently it's for a different engine code than mine. So i ended up purchasing what the dealer recommended. Easy plug and play for both plugs and coils, basic hand tools, hickup gone. I'm still dead curious about the part numbers because i was shooting for the F rev.

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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Thanks man 

From what I've read 06H905115A is the newer one too according to a guy on golfmk6 that looked it up in ETKA: 
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36323


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

snobrdrdan said:


> Bueller?
> 
> It's either gonna be 07K905715F or 06H905115B or 06H905115A


 The new coil packs have the following P/N: 06H 905 115. 

Actually, that is the same number as the old ones too. 

Still running smooth.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Brett_CC said:


> Thanks for posting this. This has been annoying the hell out of me for a while now. I experience the same thing. I will call my dealer and see if there is a recall out for these cylinder springs. Its completely gone now? How much did it cost you if you dont mind posting?


 Let us know if replacing the coil packs resolves your issue.


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## tamorris2188 (Apr 30, 2012)

*replacing coils*

If I ordered P/N 06E905115EKTN from ECS tuning to replace my coils in my 09 VW CC sport will those be sufficient? I have seen a lot of people posting about different part numbers. I ordered the red OE coils with plugs as well.


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

I don't see why they shouldn't work, i was simply curious as to what the latest rev is

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## Brett_CC (Feb 23, 2010)

I called the dealer and there are recalls out for the ignition coils on several vw models but nothing for the CC. With an intake, tune, and full exhaust the "hiccup" is much more noticeable and if we have finally made some progress in the diagnosis, I will definitely spend the money to fix it if the dealer wont. There are so many threads on this problem especially in the 2.0 TSI forum. 

Please keep us updated if there are any changes or if the gripe comes back. Is this easy to do or are we better off taking it to a shop? Thanks man.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm gonna post this up in another thread too, but.... 

Check your coils!!! 

Remove the engine cover (pulls right off), and *make sure they're seated all the way*. 
Just push them all the way down until they stop. 

I only have 9k miles on my car and they were sitting 1/4-1/2" higher than they should've!!!


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Brett_CC said:


> There are so many threads on this problem especially in the 2.0 TSI forum.


 Really? I have posted about this issue so many times and very few people have chimed in. I have seen a number of 'hesitate and surge' threads, but I think that is a different issue. Maybe not. 

My hiccup is still gone, but I have to say, in chipped mode, the torque delivery right at 2750rpms isn't the smoothest. Sometimes I still feel a little bump there where the power comes on suddenly (this is under heavy throttle) rather than smoothly. But it isn't the hiccup as there is no loss of power.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Ok, now I'm really upset. After one week of smooth driving, I felt the dreaded 'hiccup' which I now know to be a misfire. And then I felt it again and after two weeks, it is almost back to how it was. 

So by now I have replaced the intake manifold, plugs, ignition coils, injectors, and done a carbon clean and adjusted the throttle body, all to no avail.

Even without getting an actual hiccup, I notice an ever so slight rough spot at 2700rpms (or so). With the tune, there is a big kick of power right there and the transition just ins't that smooth.

Just to double check, I drove it in stock for a while and, as before, did detect the hiccup, though it is much less noticeable (in a way, that's a relief to me to know that it isn't just the tune, there's actually something wrong).

But why can't anyone figure out what the problem is? I guess I did make some progress with the last place I took it too as they identified misfires. Will this ever get resolved????


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## zcar4me (May 16, 2011)

I've been experiencing the same issue pretty much since I bought the car. I have 25k on it now, and the problem is very intermittent, but it is there just like all of you have described.

I checked the coil packs, and they pushed down slightly. I have not replaced them with the newest revision however.

Curious if the ignition coils are just too weak for the TSI.
Anyone read about the Okada coils?


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

zcar4me said:


> I've been experiencing the same issue pretty much since I bought the car. I have 25k on it now, and the problem is very intermittent, but it is there just like all of you have described.
> 
> I checked the coil packs, and they pushed down slightly. I have not replaced them with the newest revision however.
> 
> ...


I wonder that as well along with wondering if re-gapping the spark plugs (as some have mentioned) would help. But if this were the problem with tuned TSI's, I would think more people would have problems. It also doesn't explain the intermittent very slight lack of smoothness at 2700 rpms I feel in stock mode.


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## zcar4me (May 16, 2011)

irongrey said:


> I wonder that as well along with wondering if re-gapping the spark plugs (as some have mentioned) would help. But if this were the problem with tuned TSI's, I would think more people would have problems. It also doesn't explain the intermittent very slight lack of smoothness at 2700 rpms I feel in stock mode.


Speaking of re-gapping, I'm curious what type of spark plugs you're running? OEM, NGK iridium, Bosch?
I'm tempted to pull my plugs, just to see what the electrodes look like.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

zcar4me said:


> Speaking of re-gapping, I'm curious what type of spark plugs you're running? OEM, NGK iridium, Bosch?
> I'm tempted to pull my plugs, just to see what the electrodes look like.


My plugs are stock. I had them replaced at the 40k service. i imagine if they looked beat up in some way they would have told me.

We've been having some warmer days and cooler mornings and as i have always noticed, the hiccup seems to be worse in warmer weather. That must be some kind of clue as to the problem.


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## Brett_CC (Feb 23, 2010)

I've noticed the hiccup to be more subtle when I turn off traction control. I swear this has something to do with the ECU but who knows. I just really hope someone gets to the bottom of this as I simply do not have enough vw engine knowledge.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Brett_CC said:


> I've noticed the hiccup to be more subtle when I turn off traction control. I swear this has something to do with the ECU but who knows. I just really hope someone gets to the bottom of this as I simply do not have enough vw engine knowledge.


I'll try turning off traction control.

Taking it back to the shop next week. Regardless of what else they find, I will have them re-gap the plugs.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

irongrey said:


> the hiccup seems to be worse in warmer weather


How warm?

Could just be heatsoak and high IAT's causing less power

How it's driving.....is it kind of like when you drive with the A/C on (it's sluggish)??


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

snobrdrdan said:


> How warm?
> 
> Could just be heatsoak and high IAT's causing less power
> 
> How it's driving.....is it kind of like when you drive with the A/C on (it's sluggish)??


I just recently replaced all coils and plugs for this same reason, the hitch did disappear only to come back, this morning i ran the snot out of the car on the freeway and got it real hot to get the hesitation back around the same range you guys talk about. Did full stops and WOT and sure enough it is there. Got back to my garage and re-gapped the plugs to .28 and took it out for a spin again, and no more hesitation, i really bashed it to get it hot again. Its around 74 today but sun's coming down pretty hard, on a day like this i would still get the hesitation but now i think the re-gapping got rid of it.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

bordercitymadman said:


> I just recently replaced all coils and plugs for this same reason, the hitch did disappear only to come back, this morning i ran the snot out of the car on the freeway and got it real hot to get the hesitation back around the same range you guys talk about. Did full stops and WOT and sure enough it is there. Got back to my garage and re-gapped the plugs to .28 and took it out for a spin again, and no more hesitation, i really bashed it to get it hot again. Its around 74 today but sun's coming down pretty hard, on a day like this i would still get the hesitation but now i think the re-gapping got rid of it.


Awesome. That will be my next move. 

Getting the new coils did help some. It just seems there is something happening here on the margins which is why the misfires are not so bad as to trigger CELs. Re-gapping the plugs sounds like just the thing.

Pls let us know if your hiccups come back.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

snobrdrdan said:


> How warm?
> 
> Could just be heatsoak and high IAT's causing less power
> 
> How it's driving.....is it kind of like when you drive with the A/C on (it's sluggish)??


No, it's not like that at all. Under WOT, there are no hesitations. No power loss at all except right at 2700 rpms under partial throttle. Worse when it is warm and under a load (like going up a hill).


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

Yea i get you, once you are out of that range then it kicks in just nicely right? Well hasn't come back as of yet, not holding my breath though. I'll let you know that i had the fuel pump replaced prior to doing the coils and plugs, but that was more serious, it actually stalled.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

bordercitymadman said:


> Got back to my garage and re-gapped the plugs to .28 and took it out for a spin again, and no more hesitation


Just out of curiousity, did you measure what your stock plugs were gapped at (after you pulled them)???


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

snobrdrdan said:


> Just out of curiousity, did you measure what your stock plugs were gapped at (after you pulled them)???


Doh! got me there bud! i just noticed it wasn't .28 and adjusted accordingly. :sly:


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

bordercitymadman said:


> Doh! got me there bud! i just noticed it wasn't .28 and adjusted accordingly. :sly:


I meant your original OEM ones....since you said you just put in new ones

Is .28 what's called for, or just what's been proven to work on our car?
I don't know....that's why I'm asking


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## bordercitymadman (Jan 13, 2011)

snobrdrdan said:


> I meant your original OEM ones....since you said you just put in new ones
> 
> Is .28 what's called for, or just what's been proven to work on our car?
> I don't know....that's why I'm asking


I think i still have the originals somewhere, I'll measure tomorrow. I've read several threads recommending the .28 gap even as small as .26 they don't come gapped at .28 for sure it is bigger, but I'll post it tomorrow.

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## wh1te09gti (Oct 12, 2009)

in for answers. i have scheduled complementary check up tomorrow, will mention that to tech, i already pushed coils in they were good 1/8" off after only 3k miles. Looks like every 2nd fuel tank coils should be pushed down. thats just crazy :screwy:


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

I want to keep this thread alive and get as many people who are having this issue as possible communicating. I just found this thread (http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5738721-GLI-Misfire-(-)-2200-RPM&p=78090044#post78090044) where many are talking about the same issue I am having.

To update, neither the new ignition coils nor a new air mass sensor has fixed the problem. Though as has often been the case, I do get several days of hiccup free driving only to have it return. What does that mean, that the hiccup goes away for a few days and then comes back? It makes no sense to me.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

Had a long conversation with my mechanic today about my hesitation. He swears that regapping the plugs will do nothing, that the car isn't making enough power with a stage I tune for that to be an issue. All the same, I'l probably try it next time my car is in.

Other ideas he had were replacing the throttle body or the fuel pump (or at least the cylinder attached to the fuel pump), but both of those are expensive repairs for something that i have no assurance will actually fix the problem. 

I asked him about my carbonio and he also felt sure that that wasn't the issue. All the same, i am considering removing it and reflashing the car back to stock and see how it drives. But I am hesitant as i really doubt that would help. I still feel the hesitation in stock, though it is slight.

It is so distinct that the hesitation gets worse in hot weather or if the car sat out in the sun for a while. While in the morning when everything is cool, it runs smooth for quite a while. So I am back to plugging the evaporator purge valve to see if that helps. The way temperature affects the hesitation does point to that valve, that it becomes overactive when the fuel tank is hot and the carbon filter is absorbing fumes.

Anyway, I would love to hear where other people are with their hesitations, what they have tried, and if anything has worked.


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## zcar4me (May 16, 2011)

I'm still experiencing the same hesitation. It always seems worse in 1st gear, pulling away from a light at partial throttle. Nothing real heavy. Heavy acceleration or WOT is fine.

Also something I've noticed as of late is that there's almost a surge when cold. It almost feels like a slight buck, maintaining the same throttle position.

I've regapped the plugs to .26 which didn't seem to make much of a difference. As well as make sure the coils are seated all the way. I'm right at 30k right now. Still bone stock other than a BSH catch can and a drop in K&N.


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## 9r's_CC (Feb 1, 2012)

I have a 2012 with approximately 21K, APR Stage II tune, turbo back exhaust, stage I/II APR Carbonio and experiencing surging/hesitation between 2-3K RPM's.

I took it back to the shop that did the work for me, they checked the flash which I was told I had the latest greatest, they replaced the plugs with some NGK coppers and off I went. It seemed good for a couple of days and the surging returned.

I have also noticed that the surging is worse during hot weather. I just started working nights and have been amazed at how well the car is running at night at 75 versus 90 degrees.

I contacted APR technical support and they looked up my VIN and confirmed I had the latest software with the smoothing applied... they want to see round 1 and 4 VAG-Com logs. I guess that is my next avenue.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

9r's_CC said:


> I have a 2012 with approximately 21K, APR Stage II tune, turbo back exhaust, stage I/II APR Carbonio and experiencing surging/hesitation between 2-3K RPM's.
> 
> I took it back to the shop that did the work for me, they checked the flash which I was told I had the latest greatest, they replaced the plugs with some NGK coppers and off I went. It seemed good for a couple of days and the surging returned.
> 
> ...


Keep us posted. I was thinking of contacting APR as well.

I've been driving with the evap purge valve plugged for a couple days now and was starting to think I had found the problem as all was smooth. And then this afternoon, as the temp climbed above 70 degrees and I had been driving for a while, there it was. Ugh.

I have read through all my old posts and noticed that each time some major component was replaced, first an injector and then the intake manifold and all injectors, the hesitation went away for a couple weeks. And then it turns, slowly at first and then just settles into that bucking feeling. So what's up with that? Why does it go away for a while? Is that a clue? Is something being disconnected that resets something?


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## sowleman (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm experiencing the same thing after installing my Carbonio intake about a week ago. Or maybe I'm just noticing it more now. And it's extremely hot in Texas right now. 

There is no hesitation or lag in the 2000 - 3000 RPMs range if I keep the pedal down. However if I let off the gas a little (not a complete stop) to go over a speed bump or ease out in the median when turning onto a highway, then there is a lot of lag the next time I try to accelerate. And it's generally in the 2000 - 3000 RPMs range.


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## sowleman (Aug 2, 2010)

I called APR about this issue and they told me to take it to a local APR dealer and have them run a data scan (??) and send it to APR for them to diagnose. 

Sounds like it would be on my dime. I'm not to inclined to pay for thier diagnosis at this point. 

I asked APR if they had a return policy if I wanted to go back to the stock intake and they said no, once the intake has been installed you can't return it. I'm noot too happy about their customer service. 

Does anyone have any other ideas?


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

I responded in your other thread about the intake 
_(you give up some of the tq feeling for gains in hp with an intake)_ 

Also, the DSG & drive by wire system is probably playing a factor in that too with your "issue"


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## sowleman (Aug 2, 2010)

snobrdrdan said:


> I responded in your other thread about the intake
> _(you give up some of the tq feeling for gains in hp with an intake)_
> 
> Also, the DSG & drive by wire system is probably playing a factor in that too with your "issue"


 
Yea probably so. I have a love/hate relationship with my drive by wire system.  

Btw, I decided to come to a thread that was actually on topic rather than to continue to hijack that one. LOL


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

So I have been rereading all my posts since I first developed problems in the Spring of 2011 (engine hiccup, sputtering at low rpms when cold, and intermittent rough idle). They got progressively worse over about 4 months until I finally got the P2015 code indicating a malfunctioning intake manifold. I had the manifold and all injectors replaced in Sept 2011 and all my problems went away for a while. I then began to experience the hiccup again like three months later and it got progressively worse. I have heard of many people who have had to have their intake manifolds replaced multiple times, despite the revised part. And so at this point, I am wondering if it isn't the intake manifold again, that one of those flaps are not working properly (bad design). Lord knows I have had most other things replaced without any resolution. I think I am going to wait for a hot day and then try to take it back to the dealer, demonstrate the hiccup and see if I can get them to replace the intake manifold again under warranty. 

I wonder if there are any people out there who had the hiccup, had their intake manifold replaced, and the hiccup went away?


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

^^^ 
Aren't there codes, or isn't there more hesitation when driving (other than a "hiccup") when the intake manifold goes/is broken though??


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## zcar4me (May 16, 2011)

snobrdrdan said:


> ^^^
> Aren't there codes, or isn't there more hesitation when driving (other than a "hiccup") when the intake manifold goes/is broken though??


 I'm not sure man. I've read where it didn't throw a code until the arm was physically broken. 

I'm half tempted to just disconnect the arm and rig it to where it stays open. Then see if it throws a code or not and see how it affects driveability. This manifold design seems like much more trouble than it's worth. 
I know that Toyota used this on their 3SGTE (T-VIS) and many people replace the intake manifolds with aftermarket units, especially when increasing power output. The only benefit is slightly more low end torque. With power increased, the difference without T-VIS is negligible.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

snobrdrdan said:


> ^^^
> Aren't there codes, or isn't there more hesitation when driving (other than a "hiccup") when the intake manifold goes/is broken though??


My car had four months of escalating problems before I finally threw the intake mani code. And my hiccup first started in the context of these four months. Once I had the intake mani replaced, all the problems went away. But the hiccup began returning after some months. Actually, my intermittent rough idle got better but never completely went away either.

Has anybody had their intake manifold replaced under the powertrain warranty vs the 36k mi warranty?


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

irongrey said:


> My car had four months of escalating problems before I finally threw the intake mani code. And my hiccup first started in the context of these four months. Once I had the intake mani replaced, all the problems went away. But the hiccup began returning after some months. Actually, my intermittent rough idle got better but never completely went away either.


How many miles are on it?

Have you had the valves cleaned?
I know they gunk up pretty bad on the TSI


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

I noticed some hesitation a while back. Recently, things got worse. Just got back from flatbedding my CC to a nearby dealership (local dealership is worthless). Hoping for some powertrain warranty love.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

snobrdrdan said:


> How many miles are on it?
> 
> Have you had the valves cleaned?
> I know they gunk up pretty bad on the TSI


I had the intake mani replaced at 38k. Prior to that, they did a carbon clean of the throttle body, valves, and intake and it made no difference (which make sense bc that was never the problem; it was a failing flapper inside the intake manifold). After replacing the intake mani, they did another hand cleaning/scraping of carbon build up. Within a few months, I had the hiccup again. I now have about 56k.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

So I was at the dealership today discussing with them my engine hesitation. The shop foreman who worked with me closely when I had my intake manifold replaced remembered me and remembered that I had this same hesitation prior to getting the intake manifold CEL. He offered to open a ticket with VW, pull some logs from the car, and send them to VW. But first he suggested I use some product which is new to VW (but has been used for Audis) that is an carbon cleaner. He said carbon build up is an issue in these cars and that with this product, the carbon "melts away". I reminded him that I had a carbon clean done here before and he said, and this is the shop foreman, that the product they used to use doesn't do anything. So I bought a couple cans, poured them in, and filled up the tank. He said if the problem persists, to make an appt to pull logs. My prediction is that the problem will persist. But I will keep folks updated. 

He also suggested that anybody else who is having this issue also go to the dealership as the more people who have the same issue the more likely VW is to work on a solution.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

irongrey said:


> So I was at the dealership today discussing with them my engine hesitation. The shop foreman who worked with me closely when I had my intake manifold replaced remembered me and remembered that I had this same hesitation prior to getting the intake manifold CEL. He offered to open a ticket with VW, pull some logs from the car, and send them to VW. But first he suggested I use some product which is new to VW (but has been used for Audis) that is an carbon cleaner. He said carbon build up is an issue in these cars and that with this product, the carbon "melts away". I reminded him that I had a carbon clean done here before and he said, and this is the shop foreman, that the product they used to use doesn't do anything. So I bought a couple cans, poured them in, and filled up the tank. He said if the problem persists, to make an appt to pull logs. My prediction is that the problem will persist. But I will keep folks updated.
> 
> He also suggested that anybody else who is having this issue also go to the dealership as the more people who have the same issue the more likely VW is to work on a solution.


Is it BG Products 44K? My nearby dealer recommended this to me recently even though when they had my intake off, they said the build up appeared normal for my mileage.


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## irongrey (Dec 16, 2009)

dcbc said:


> Is it BG Products 44K? My nearby dealer recommended this to me recently even though when they had my intake off, they said the build up appeared normal for my mileage.


It was a little can, white, with an attached white cone. Most of the lettering on the can was not English, and there were logos for Audi, Seat, VW, and other VW Group brands.

No, it was not BG.

This is what the dealer sold me.

http://www.ecstuning.com/Audi-A3-FWD-2.0T/Engine/Fuel/ES1895145/


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

irongrey said:


> It was a little can, white, with an attached white cone. Most of the lettering on the can was not English, and there were logos for Audi, Seat, VW, and other VW Group brands.
> 
> No, it was not BG.
> 
> ...


Okay, thanks. ECS's website says NLA.


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## sowleman (Aug 2, 2010)

Maybe this will fix the issue: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5812478-VW-2010-2013-ECM-TCM-update


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## zcar4me (May 16, 2011)

sowleman said:


> Maybe this will fix the issue:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5812478-VW-2010-2013-ECM-TCM-update


 Not if you have a manual trans.


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## bisheitt1 (Apr 18, 2014)

Has anybody found a resolution to this issue yet? If so please let me know. I had little hesitation with my CC with the stock intake that was slightly noticable. I upgraded to the CTS Turbo Intake and the hesitation has gotten worse. Hopefully somebody has found a fix for this issue by now.


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

bisheitt1 said:


> Has anybody found a resolution to this issue yet? If so please let me know. I had little hesitation with my CC with the stock intake that was slightly noticable. I upgraded to the CTS Turbo Intake and the hesitation has gotten worse. Hopefully somebody has found a fix for this issue by now.


I've done a lot of research on this issue. It's something I've experienced since going Stage 1 (GIAC) with a Neuspeed intake. I can get my car to buck, have the DV blow off 2-3 times going up an on-ramp from a stop with light-mid throttle. The same thing has happened with both a Rev.C DV and the GFB dv+.

There are two camps, electronic diverter valve problem (stemming from having a computer controlled DV, though some have changed to a vacuum controlled DV with mixed reviews) or intake manifold flaps that are partially closed between 2300-2700 RPM. There are logs that someone on Golfmk6.com posted, I'll try to find them if someone is interested. The same person disabled his intake butterflies and aside from the rough cold starts and CEL it caused, doing so solved his hiccup.

My theory is that it's a combination of the two. Think about what happens between 2-3k rpm. The turbo spools. A stock tuned car has X amount of boost in that RPM range and the computer has been tuned for all things to work together. VW isn't perfect though, and the butterflies in the manifold can (I believe) cause a fluctuation that causes the computer to trigger the DV. Now tune the car Stage 1. There is a huge surge of boost between 2-3K on stock turbo tunes because the turbo can do that, and that only exaggerates the hiccup/overactive DV.

Do you know what the fix is, since no tuning company has acknowledged this? (save for one person that claimed HPA solved their issue) Get a K04/F23T/Big Turbo. I know that sounds crazy, but bigger turbos don't spool in that range. No K04 cars have this issue. There is also the HPA intake manifold that would remove the butterflies.

Seriously I have no idea how to fix it, but I'd love a solution.


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## casopolis (Jun 5, 2014)

I have a 2012 with the same issue. I bought the car used with 34k miles and had it APR chipped almost immediately so I forget if it was always there from day one. After the chip I blew a coil pack right away leaving the tuner so he put new red coil packs in the car, and about a month later I replaced the plugs as well with OEM plugs from my dealership. 

Car is stock other than the APR stage 1. I have 38k miles. Exact problem described in this thread. My first thought was a slight vac leak or something related to losing metered air. Like a leak at the DV valve or similar. I have no codes and my coils and plugs are new. I am not sure what to try first. I seem to always have this issue, I had the same thing with my Subaru as well and I could never track it down. Getting heavy on the throttle is my current solution, it only happens at part throttle. It is there in stock mode, but it seems less severe. I have not tested it fully both ways but I am pretty sure its still there. 

I thought about going back to stock mode and taking it to my dealer to get their opinion... though I am skeptical about them finding a solution. And they can see I have new coil packs in the car. Not sure if I should tell them I am chipped or not.


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## jkeith72 (Feb 14, 2011)

I too have this problem, for as long as I can remember. I have a 2011 with 49K. APR stage 2, intake, catless DP, and a vacuum operated DV. I notice when I get the weird lag, that my boost will fluctuate greatly...between 0-10lbs generally. As already stated, it happens at part throttle only, and is made much worse by hot weather and A/C compressor drag. I have only replaced the OEM coils with red R8 type, and new NGK plugs at about 35K. 
I have driven a few new turbo cars lately, and they are all have MUCH smoother power delivery. No jerking when you lift the throttle, and definitely no odd boost fluctuations at the most commonly used throttle position...frustrating to say the least!


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=56401

Thread with the logs showing the intake manifold flaps fluttering at the hiccup zone, and some good information on testing to eliminate it.

This is where my theory comes from, but unfortunately no "fixes" have come from this.


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## Nethers (Dec 2, 2013)

In to finish reading this later. I have the same 2750 rpm hiccup.


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## MSD (Feb 12, 2003)

I believe I have this issue, but only when the car is cold. Once it warms up, it's fine.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

MSD said:


> I believe I have this issue, but only when the car is cold. Once it warms up, it's fine.


How many miles?

Read here:
http://www.deutscheautoparts.com/newsarticle.aspx?NID=45


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## flipflp (Dec 10, 2012)

Wanted to update this thread with some personal experience.

I installed an AWE boost tap and vacuum DV over the weekend to replace my OEM DV with the GFB DV+ setup. Install was fairly easy, aside from the awkward DV swap process (big hands :laugh.

With 300 or so miles on it now and I can confirm that a vacuum DV has solved my issue with the stock DV being triggered in the 22-2800 RPM range. With the new DV the car pulls right through that range at low and medium throttle, even with a slight lift.

I will say that this DOES NOT effect anything in the intake manifold, so I can still occasionally feel a surge in power from the intake flaps moving, but this is not from the DV (no noise or loss in boost on the gauge). 

No more bucking bronco noisemaker! To quote Edd China: Result!


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