# WOT shifting and 2 step



## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

My buddy just bought one of these boxes from N2MB racing for his neon srt4. It's pretty slick on his car. I went to their site and they just came out with one for the new MKV GTI's. I emailed them yesterday to see if they make one for MK3's. I'm waiting to hear a response. How close are the signals between the MKV and MK3? I believe they tap into the TPS, Cam position and clutch switch. Anyone else interested in these? If they make one, maybe we could get a group discount?
http://www.npcompleteperformance.com/home
*Video link on second page*


_Modified by BlownGinster at 8:39 PM 8-31-2008_


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## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: WOT shifting and 2 step (BlownGinster)*

Well, you would have to be using drive by wire for one of those. Our MK3s are drive by cable.
If I had a newer dub with drive by wire, I would definitely pick one up. 
A friend of mine has all that isht stock on his STI... traction control, launch control..... almost makes me want drive by wire....almost.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: WOT shifting and 2 step (smokeymountaindub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokeymountaindub* »_Well, you would have to be using drive by wire for one of those. Our MK3s are drive by cable.
If I had a newer dub with drive by wire, I would definitely pick one up. 
A friend of mine has all that isht stock on his STI... traction control, launch control..... almost makes me want drive by wire....almost.









You don't need DBW for all that jazz on the STI, 2-step is not a stock STI option like an EVO (cable throttle). So don't worry, you can be content with your cable throttle, traction control 95% of the time is controlled by your modulator not throttle, although in addition with DBW it allow the ECU to take control.


_Modified by GTijoejoe at 9:14 PM 8-4-2008_


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## smokeymountaindub (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: WOT shifting and 2 step (smokeymountaindub)*

I should have read through the whole thing.....








I see now that it is controlled via ignition interrupt.... pretty cool.


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## rodney_dubs (Mar 2, 2008)

it would be MORE likely to work on drive by cable. 
It will work.







We just got one working on a mk4 and they are notorious for closing the throttle body whenever they get pissed off.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (rodney_dubs)*

I working on getting a unit to try. I'll post any results I get.


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

Yeah, we've all ordered them and killed the supply. lol


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_I working on getting a unit to try. I'll post any results I get.


i would be so in on this and kill for one of these... mk3 vr with a 2 step... that would be slick... did they ever write back?


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## [email protected] (Apr 25, 2007)

*Re: (Boost112)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boost112* »_

i would be so in on this and kill for one of these... mk3 vr with a 2 step... that would be slick... did they ever write back?

Your sig sounds about 100% dead on.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

I want one.







If someone gets one of these working on a mkIII vr, I will probably pick one up. I would be in for a group buy. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Your sig sounds about 100% dead on.









yeah... thats luis... you need to get on his case about finishing his car already and doing mk3 vr files....


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## scarboroughdub (Jul 8, 2002)

*Re: (Boost112)*

actually its been done on a mk3.
flat shifting/2 step all possible with proper ecu control


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

*Re: (scarboroughdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *scarboroughdub* »_actually its been done on a mk3.
flat shifting/2 step all possible with proper ecu control









Care to explain how?


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

Just have the chip programmer add it in. I'm looking at that also


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_Just have the chip programmer add it in. I'm looking at that also









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Jefnes has stated he has the ability to do this...
One problem with a generic 2-step is you don't have the option of how much boost you want/can build depending on the size of your turbo.


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## golf-mk3 (Jan 27, 2007)

*Re: WOT shifting and 2 step (BlownGinster)*

let me thow some noob around in this thread. what does the 2 step exactly do? i know what launch control is. can this 3 stip thing work on a 5spd?


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

A 2 step is like a second rev limiter that is enabled by the driver, so you can just floor the gas and your rpms will stay where you set them. You can then build boost without being under load, so you can get a stronger, more consistent launch, and you don't have to wait forever for your big turbo to spool.


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

talk to Jeff at C2 he can do it on OBD2 software. I wouldve gotten it but after a week I also wouldnt have tires left


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*

If everything goes right, I'll have a unit next week to try. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_If everything goes right, I'll have a unit next week to try. I'll keep everyone posted.

im so in on this...


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (Boost112)*

It should be here Monday or Tuesday. I just need to fit the installation into my schedule.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Any progress?


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

I have the unit. I have all but one wire connected. I hope to finish up by the weekend


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## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

we need a video of that thing running


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (obd2vr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *obd2vr6* »_we need a video of that thing running









Will do







Just need to get some garage time to finish it up.


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## 1_slow_mk3 (Jul 23, 2007)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *KubotaPowered* »_talk to Jeff at C2 he can do it on OBD2 software. I wouldve gotten it but after a week I also wouldnt have tires left


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (1_slow_mk3)*

It's about the same price, but doesn't give the option of adjusting the 2-step rpm.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_muppet_* »_Any progress?










..ditto...


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (Boost112)*

I got it all hooked up today. I'm waiting on a software change dealing with the throttle position sensor. I couldn't resist trying out the throttle cut for shifting. (hooked up a switch to test) Pretty sweet. I'll have a full test as soon as it's 100% up and running. I have a really good feeling.


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## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

bump sweet stuff bro


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## turbo12v (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (obd2vr6)*

what has to be done to the software.


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## turbo12v (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: (turbo12v)*

any update


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (turbo12v)*

The WOT shifting is working great......I just need to keep my foot away from the clutch when I'm not shifting......sensitive clutch switch. The 2-step isn't working right yet. I had it set for 4k and it would oscilate real slow between 4k and 3k and would die when I tried launching. Working on that.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: WOT shifting and 2 step (BlownGinster)*

It's up and running. The 2-srep works great and is fully adjustable. The WOT shifting is really cool also. I hope to have some video up this weekend. I'm sending my pics and final wiring in today. Pretty cool unit that is easy to adjust http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'll see about getting a group buy on here.


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## turbo12v (Jul 11, 2003)

*Re: WOT shifting and 2 step (BlownGinster)*

VERY COOL. I am going to buy this soon. I have been waiting for you to get it work. What did you mean you needed to do something to your software.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

I am also curious what was done to the software? Was it needed to make this work properly?


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

Basicly, the tps sensor on our car is "backwards" from how the other cars they tested on. 4v on ours is full throttle 1v no throttle insteadf of 1v no throttle, 4v full throttle. The other glitch was a problem when I loaded the software. I reloaded it and everything was a go http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

count me in for the right price 
lets see the videos


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Ok, I want this.







Were you able to do the software change yourself, or did you have to send the box back in?


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

The unit has a serial port on it. They sent me an updated file and I just downloaded it.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

Here is the youtube link. The video shows trying the 2-step a few times and then showing the pause of the wot shift. I have the 2-step is set at 2800 rpm right now. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOY9Bt9aTPU


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

sweet so then it should work prety well... but how was the actual installation? and how does it actually drive and perform.... you need to get a in actian video of that thing and how it works....

.... how much are these things again?


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (Boost112)*

The installation is easy as can be. Tap into 3 wires, cut and reconnect the coilpack power through the unit (2wires) , and ground the unit. The unit works well on the street. I can't really use the 2-step too much without slicks. The WOT shifting works well (alot of spin, but not bad with DR's. After the holiday weekend is over, I'll try to get some acton shots. It is a little weird to get used to not taking your foot off the gas








The units are under $200.00


_Modified by BlownGinster at 1:26 PM 9-1-2008_


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Mine is ordered, should be in the mail tomorrow.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

You're going to love it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Just got an email from them, they are out of stock. Shipping next monday at the earliest, I really hope to have this in by the flashlight drags.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

oh wow so they are already selling them? whats the website agian?


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_Basicly, the tps sensor on our car is "backwards" from how the other cars they tested on. 4v on ours is full throttle 1v no throttle insteadf of 1v no throttle, 4v full throttle. 

Actually we do have a 0v-5v TPS sensor (red/grey: pin8), you just happened to use the other one. My unit still will not let me set 2 step above 3600RPM. It shows that it is set via the blinking LED and yet it still free revs every time. These boxes are not 100% set for our cars yet but are close. 
The BIGGEST issue that is going to be had with people installing these on mkIII's are going to be clutch switch issues. Our switches and cruise control modules are notorious for being faulty. If you are buying one of these, make sure that your cruise control clutch switch is working properly as well as your cruise control module. If the module is not working it will NOT send voltage to the clutch switch thus causing the unit to think you have the clutch pressed at all times. In order to get around having to put a new cruise module in you could just jump 15 power to the other wire to the switch. 


_Modified by Lil red roket at 10:11 PM 9-3-2008_


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Hmm, perhaps I should have studied this a bit deeper.







I have no cruise control, hopefully I can still get this in and working properly.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (_muppet_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_muppet_* »_Hmm, perhaps I should have studied this a bit deeper.







I have no cruise control, hopefully I can still get this in and working properly.

Not hard, green wire from the WOTbox goes to the black wire of the switch, and your 15 power (ignition) overlay goes to the black/red wire or the only other pin on the connector. simple and only takes a minute to do.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lil red roket* »_
Actually we do have a 0v-5v TPS sensor (red/grey: pin8), you just happened to use the other one. My unit still will not let me set 2 step above 3600RPM. It shows that it is set via the blinking LED and yet it still free revs every time. These boxes are not 100% set for our cars yet but are close. 
The BIGGEST issue that is going to be had with people installing these on mkIII's are going to be clutch switch issues. Our switches and cruise control modules are notorious for being faulty. If you are buying one of these, make sure that your cruise control clutch switch is working properly as well as your cruise control module. If the module is not working it will NOT send voltage to the clutch switch thus causing the unit to think you have the clutch pressed at all times. In order to get around having to put a new cruise module in you could just jump 15 power to the other wire to the switch. 

_Modified by Lil red roket at 10:11 PM 9-3-2008_

I saw that on the wiring diagram, but when I metered the wires, they both showed 5v to 0v. It was easy for them to ajust the program, so I went with the 5v-0v setting. I had my 2-step set for mid 4k and it worked, but that was before I reflashed it....I'll check it again. I had a bad clutch switch on mine that I had to replace and I only have 47000 miles on the car.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlownGinster* »_I had my 2-step set for mid 4k and it worked, but that was before I reflashed it....I'll check it again. I had a bad clutch switch on mine that I had to replace and I only have 47000 miles on the car.

I just talked to them about my upper RPM 2step not working and they sent me a flash for the other TPS, so I'm gonna hook that up in a little bit and load the software and see where we're at. Please let me know if yours works at upper RPM, I'm really curious. As for the clutch switch, my switch works but the control module is bad (go figure) so I just ran 15 power to the other wire and made it a switch solely for the WOTbox.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*

I just checked mine again. 3600 is the limit before it doesn't work. I didn't go that hight after I reflashed it because of only having dr's. I sent you an email







I also contacted them about the issue. They have great customer support, so it should be 100% shortly. 


_Modified by BlownGinster at 7:16 PM 9-4-2008_


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

I sure hope so I'm getting anxious. 3600RPM 2 step sounds good, but I wanna hear 5 or 5.5K I love the wot shift though if my dr's weren't usless before they sure as hell are now. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Addicting as hell, but weird to get used to not lifting your right foot.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

I got the newest flash today and installed it. The 2-step works to at least 5k (wife started yelling.........will test the rest of the way up tomorrow







). It still uses the inverted tps signal because the regular signal doesn't work correctly. Now I just need some slicks.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

I can't wait until mine gets here.







I am off this friday, if it gets here I should have it in for the flashlight drags.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

When and where are the drags?


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

This saturday at the zelienople airport.







I should be there.
http://www.flashlightdrags.com


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

Just got back from out of town and found the new flash waiting, will install it tonight and go up to 6 and see what she sounds like. maybe I can make it to the track on wednesday.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*

Already in and tried........6200 rpm








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GuD7nHCIlA


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (BlownGinster)*

As stated in the other thread, VEEEERRRYYY nice. I am beyond excited to finally be able to play with it. Big thanks again to N2MB for finally bringing some love to the VW community especially the mkIII guys. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

How's the WOT shifiting?
Are you able to hold boost between shifts?


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*

The WOT shifting is like dumping the clutch off the line but inbetween every gear, I havn't used it that much, my eyes were on the road the entire time so I don't know if I held boost or not, my hotside is big so it takes a bit to spool it so I'm sure it will build boost during two step and wot better on other setups. 
Craig what kind of boost do you build with the 2 step at 6200, I couldn't see your gauge in the vid.


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

The point of my question is because a real launch control and/or flat shift includes timing retard. As a result, EGT goes up and turbo spools.
I'm wondering what this box do. I would venture it only cuts ignition. And with the absence of load, I find it hard to keep the turbo spooling between shifts or when launching.
By the way, if you have a big turbo or big hotside, you NEED a proper flat shift control with adequate timing retard to keep your turbo spooling when you shift gears.
So where does this box stand with respect to a real launch and flat shift control?
They claim on their website that turbo was able to hold boost between shifts on one of their customers' car.
I'm just looking to confirm this info. If that's true, I'll be all over it in a heartbeat.


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6rocks* »_The point of my question is because a real launch control and/or flat shift includes timing retard. As a result, EGT goes up and turbo spools.

Your use of the term "real" launch control and/or flat shift is too loose. Launch control is just that, a controlled launch and a flat shift is just that, a flat shift, this unit does both. If you are seeking something with the tunability of timing and fuel this unit is not that, yet. I say yet because I'm sure these guys can and might come up with something of that nature further down the line, but as it stands right now all it does is cut ignition and I believe in some cases fuel. Again I have not had time to check everything this unit is capable of yet due to time constraints with work and my wedding comming up in 12 days but maybe Craig has more info at this point, I will but it will take a little bit with everything else going on.


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (Lil red roket)*

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying in any way trying to discredit what the guys at N2MB did. I'm just looking for more info.
So if someone can confirm to me whether it holds any boost when launching or when shifting gears, I'd really appreciate it.
Edit: Congratulations on your upcoming wedding










_Modified by VR6rocks at 3:19 PM 9-10-2008_


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*

Here is a reply I got from Jon explaining to me how their flat shift works. Very helpful guy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote »_We do not retard timing during the no-lift shifting, like an anti-lag system would because it is very damaging for the turbo. Instead, it is a complete ignition power cut for a very short time, just enough time for you to get into the next gear. The length of the ignition cut is adjustable, and can be lowered as you improve your shift times. 
The WOT Box is able to maintain boost through the shift because the ignition is cut for only a very short time. The inertia of the turbo and the fact that the blow-off valve does not open keeps the boost up through the shift.
The same thing is true of the 2-step launch control. It does not retard timing either, but it is able to build boost on the line, although sometimes not a huge amount. It depends on the size of the turbo.

How much boost are you guys able to build?


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

I just got home from work and there was a package here.







Can anyone hook me up with the correct software? I emailed them a couple days ago, but didn't get a response yet.


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## BlownGinster (Jun 23, 2002)

*Re: (VR6rocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6rocks* »_Here is a reply I got from Jon explaining to me how their flat shift works. Very helpful guy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
How much boost are you guys able to build?

With the 2-step set @ 4000rpm, I can build and hold about 5psi. I did'nt try any higher yet. 
This is with:
Schimmel 3.0 8:1 compression
Precision PT-61 w/.69 Hotside
C2 Short Runner
ATP Turbo manifold
C2 42# Software
3" turbo back......no cat or mufflers
blah, blah, blah


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## VR6rocks (Jun 5, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback.
I'm also rockin a T61/GT40 compressor wheel and I'm loosing considerable time/boost between shifts. I think I'll give this box a try and see what happens.
I'm particularly interested in the flat shift option, so whenever you get the chance to look or have someone look at the boost gauge while you flat shift, I'd really appreciate it.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Ok, so it is all wired in, the wot shift works, but there is no 2step, I tried adjusting it, and it still doesn't work. When you guys turn your key on, does the led blink rapidly? I thought it was only supposed to blink at full throttle, but with this software, it seems to blink any time there is power to the unit. I never even tried the default software, and I am not sure how to get it back now that I have this loaded.







Sometimes at idle when I push the clutch it will actually die.
Right now I have the blue wire hooked to ecu pin 40 (green/white), the yellow wire is hooked to the injector 6 supply wire (gray/yellow). The heavy black wire on the coilpack has been cut, and the coil side of it goes to the black wire that is paired to the red wire, and the red wire is on the other side. The single black wire is grounded. 
Update, I just went back out, with the key on, and the gas floored the light is solid, when I let off, it blinks, so I guess obdI must have been backwards from obdII for tps. I just put the cobalt software in to try, I will post back with results.


_Modified by _muppet_ at 2:29 AM 9-13-2008_


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (_muppet_)*

Okay, you are having the same issues that Craig and I had. 
First off you only have the default software the unit came with loaded right now. That is the reason the led is constantly blinking. If you pushed the throttle all the way I would be willing to bet the led would go steady. This is because the green/white TPS wire is an inverted TPS signal compared to the other engine setups. This is also the reason the ignition cuts out when you release the clutch pedal, this is because the software thinks you are at wot and when you push the clutch it is performing the wot shift. 
So, you need to load the software version I IM'd you. I had to push the throttle to the floor and get the led to stop blinking, this makes the box think that nothing is happening since the tps signal is reversed. 
You need to load the driver
Then when you find the driver in device manager disable it. 
Then open the down load (software) 
Then enable the driver again
Proceed with software flash, picking the com port that is tells you in device manager. 
It should say flash complete when it's done. 
You can try it but you will most likely need to do all these steps again. Craig and I both had to flash it twice and after the second one it worked. Let us know if you have any more problems or questions. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Jon emailed me the driver today, the software loaded on the first try, it said successfully loaded. With the cobalt software, it works, vw must have changed the tps in 96, that is all I can figure. My afr's are all over the place again for some reason though.







And on the test drive I heard a loose 6th gear syncro, I may have to tackle that tomorrow.


_Modified by _muppet_ at 3:30 AM 9-13-2008_


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## Lil red roket (Jan 29, 2004)

*Re: (_muppet_)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_muppet_* »_ vw must have changed the tps in 96, that is all I can figure.

96 is the same as my 97 or Craig's 98. Yours is a VR right?

_Quote, originally posted by *_muppet_* »_ And on the test drive I heard a loose 6th gear syncro, I may have to tackle that tomorrow.

What trans do you have?


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

I have a 95 vr6, running the factory 02a trans with the quaife syncromesh gears, and lsd.


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## _muppet_ (Aug 5, 2004)

Jon just sent me a flash with the tps flipped and it works perfect. The cobalt software worked, but the 2 step would bounce around more than I thought it should. Either vw switched tps sensors from obdI to obdII, or maybe it's possible it was done when mole had the car tuned, but I can't see why it would have been any benefit to flip it?
Video








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3jztClHlkI
I have to say, the service they provide is great. 


_Modified by _muppet_ at 12:09 AM 9-15-2008_


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