# Sunroof Difficulties - Sunroof Adaptation (consolidated discussions)



## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Sunroof wouldn't close*

I had my first potential problem happen yesterday. I parked my car in a parking lot and my sunroof wouldn't close. I think that the pinch protection was the culprit because it started to close and would open when there was about a 3 inch gap. It never closed but when I drove away and tried it again in motion it closed. Maybe it was just a feature to keep me from going into Fry's.


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Sunshade Below Sunroof is Intermittent*

bobm-
I don't know if it's related, but sometimes my sunshade won't open or close (no motion at all). It's happened just a couple times and the next time I start the car it works fine. I'm wondering if it's a computer glitch. You brought up a good point about the pinch protection. Our symptoms are different. Did you try to close the sunroof with the key in the door when you got out? Maybe that would work. If I remember correctly, the windows and sunroof will open if you hold the key in the door in the unlock postion and they will all close if it's turned and held in the lock position. I saw it on the DVD and I closed my sunroof this way once.
Robert


----------



## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: Sunshade Below Sunroof is Intermittent (rscharf)*

If it happens again I'll try your key idea. I also get the not opening thing once in awhile but when I turn the knob back and forth it opens.


----------



## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: Sunshade Below Sunroof is Intermittent (rscharf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_bobm-
I don't know if it's related, but sometimes my sunshade won't open or close (no motion at all). It's happened just a couple times and the next time I start the car it works fine. I'm wondering if it's a computer glitch. You brought up a good point about the pinch protection. Our symptoms are different. Did you try to close the sunroof with the key in the door when you got out? Maybe that would work. If I remember correctly, the windows and sunroof will open if you hold the key in the door in the unlock postion and they will all close if it's turned and held in the lock position. I saw it on the DVD and I closed my sunroof this way once.
Robert
 I tried the key idea today and it worked


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (bobm)*

I discovered some interesting information about the sunroof today. It seems that there are three different ways to close the thing:
*1)* Normally, by turning the dial on the roof.
*2)* Exceptionally (meaning, over-riding the pinch protection feature), by turning the dial to the normal closed position, then pressing *UP* on the little dot on the sunroof dial when the dial is in the 'normally closed' position only
*3)* Manually, using a crank that is stored behind the rear cabin dome light.
The first method we all know about.
The second method, which overrides the pinch-protection, is described on page 56 of booklet 3.1.1. But, the booklet really does not make clear what 'position A' is. It is important that you rotate the sunroof dial to the normally closed position (with the dot on the dial at the front of the car) before you press up on the button. Only the front part of the dial will tilt up, so, put your finger on the forward end of the dial, not in the middle of it, then press up. As long as you hold the forward end of the dial pressed up, the sunroof will motor closes, and the pinch protection feature will not operate.
The third method is described on page 72 of booklet 3.2. This involves use of the manual cranking key that is stored in the roof. I have attached some photos below.
Michael
*Text describing how to close the sunroof electrically, over-riding the pinch protection feature.*
Page 56 of booklet 3.1.1








*Text describing how to close the sunroof manually*
Page 72 of booklet 3.2








*Illustration showing the three different sunroof motors*
I think I posted these photos a few months ago, but I can't find them anymore - so, here they are again.








*Photos showing how to get access to the winding key, and where it goes.*


----------



## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (PanEuropean)*

So did anyone find a cure for this problem? I've been dealing with this on the A8 for 8 months now. The pinch protection will activate for both tilt and slide closing. The control module and motor have been replaced 3 times and the entire moonroof system twice and still it thinks there is an obstruction.


----------



## bozzaj (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (AtlasD3Miami)*

I had a similar problem with the pinch protection kicking in with no obstruction, but it went away. The only thing I had done was wipe down the wind deflector really well and it never happened again.
When the sunroof closes, it pushes down the deflector - at least, that's what it looks like to me. Is it possible that there's something in there causing it to sense too much resistance?
Jaime


----------



## MoreA4 (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (AtlasD3Miami)*

I have had a similar problem with my A4. It has happened a few times. I have turned the car off and let it sit for a few moments and restart the car and it closes completely. It has also happened a few times with the passenger window on auto-up. It gets about two inches from the top closed position, and then reverses direction. Again, turning the car off, waiting a moment and restarting fixes the problem. I just figured an occasional rare gremlin.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (AtlasD3Miami)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AtlasD3Miami* »_So did anyone find a cure for this problem?

I don't think it is a 'problem' _per se_ on the Phaeton. Bob is the only person who has ever reported that the pinch protection feature on the Phaeton sunroof functioned, and his post was made 10 months ago. I only tagged the answer onto this post because I happened to have the information, and I try hard to keep all information relating to the same topic together on the same thread.
I believe that there is an adaptation process that is performed by the VW dealer to calibrate the pinch protection system on the different power windows, including the 'roof window'. I'm not exactly sure how this is done, but I know it is done as part of the PDI process. Perhaps someone else here (a VW technician, perhaps) might know what the process is, and can explain it to us. I don't know whether it can be done without a diagnostic scan tool (VAS 5051 or VAG-COM).
Michael


----------



## ungr8fulvr6 (Mar 29, 2002)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (PanEuropean)*

Hey all!
I've actually encountered this problem before on a customers' Phaeton.
Believe it or not, the culprit for the pinch protection to activate itself in this situation was caused by the sunshade rubbing against the sunroof glass causing is to bind and roll back into the open position.
A very simple fix is to lube the tracks with some silicone spray in order for the friction between the glass and the sunshade to be less.
If the problem persists, contact your local dealer as the glass and / or sunshade MAY require an adjustment.


_Modified by ungr8fulvr6 at 2:11 AM 2-25-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (ungr8fulvr6)*

Thanks, Graham - and, welcome to the Phaeton forum! Hope we see you around here often in the future.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof wouldn't close (ungr8fulvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ungr8fulvr6* »_A very simple fix is to lube the tracks with some silicone spray in order for the friction between the glass and the sunshade to be less.

I agree with Graham, but I think it's important to add a caution here: I once screwed up the headliner on a Golf I owned by lubricating the sunroof tracks. I used the correct lubricant, and I put it in the correct places, but I put too much on, and some of it then dripped down onto the headliner, where it left a stain.
So, when it comes to lubricating a sunroof, I think I will always leave that task for the Phaeton technician to do - he or she knows what parts need the lubricant and what parts don't, and more important, they have experience putting the lubricant on, so they know just how much (and no more!) to apply.
Below is a photo of the VW silicone lubricant that is intended for use on sunroofs, seat tracks, stuff like that. I have found that it is also a useful lubricant to have around the house, and for use on my motorcycle. It is available from the parts department of your VW dealership.
Michael
*VW Silicone Lubricant for sunroofs, seat tracks, stuff like that*


----------



## dadler (May 14, 2005)

*Sunroof Does Not CLose easily*

Does anybody have a problem when closing the sunroof, the motor stops before closing and reopens? If I stop the sunroof manually and close the roof in small increments it seems to work OK. Any comments?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (dadler)*

It sounds like the pinch protection feature of the sunroof is activating. This is normally caused by greater than normal frictional resistance in the mechanics of the sunroof.
The pinch protection system is designed to stop and reverse the operation of the sunroof or any of the power windows if an object blocks the free movement of the glass panel. But, if there is a buildup of dirt in either the tracks that the glass travels in, or in the rubber seals surrounding the glass panel, pinch protection can inadvertently activate as a result of the increased friction.
If the problem is with a sunroof, the best solution is to take the vehicle to a VW dealer and have them clean and lubricate the sunroof tracks. This is not a difficult job but it requires special knowledge, so it is best left to a technician at your dealer.
If the problem is with one of the side windows, you can often solve it yourself by taking the car to a coin-op car wash, and directing the spray from the high pressure wand at the base of the side window, about half an inch up from the base of the window. Try to keep the high pressure wand as close to vertical as possible. The object of the exercise is to rinse any dirt that may have accumulated in the outside bottom window seal out of the seal.
After you have done that, 're-adapt' the pinch protection system (retrain the system so it knows what the baseline friction is) by running the window fully down, fully up, and fully down, holding the window button in the manual down or manual up position. Don't use the auto up or auto down function for this adaptation. After you have completed these three full movement cycles, the window will note the amount of friction it encountered when moving, and use that as a baseline for future activation of the pinch protection system.
Michael


----------



## jmdpjd1 (Aug 18, 2004)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (dadler)*

Had the same problem with my sunroof. Just needed a little cleaning and adjustment, as Michael said. Technician completed it while I waited.


----------



## GTINC (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (dadler)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dadler* »_when closing the sunroof, the motor stops before closing and reopens? 

Can't believe this protection system and how it acts is not mentioned in the owner's manual. You could check there.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (GTINC)*

It is mentioned there. But, to be fair, the Phaeton owner manual is not a shining example of the most concise and lucid technical writing in the world today. The legal department in Auburn Hills stuffed so much crap into it that it is almost impossible to find information that describes how the car operates.
Maybe we should put together our first ever "Phaeton Forum Group Buy", and import a case of English language owner manuals from the UK. I have seen them, they are concise, to the point, and easy to read. This is because suing people is not part of the culture in that country.
Michael


----------



## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (PanEuropean)*

Unfortunately "galloping lawyer syndrome" is has started to spread to the UK from across the Atlantic so you had better get that order in quickly before our manuals look like yours.
William


----------



## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

I'll be happy to order them from the UK for you. I'll contact VW here to find out if it is possible for me to do it.
William


----------



## culverwood (May 20, 2005)

*Re: (culverwood)*

There may be a problem, I quote from a Phaeton test in August last year:
“This brings us to a point which we all found annoying: the driver’s manual is the multi-section type which is now used for all Volkswagen models, a huge proportion of it is apparently designed to protect the company from legal battles in the USA. The sections which apply to actually operating the car are neither well laid out nor easy to understand. This is a car with a base price of £40,000, yet the manufacturer has not taken the trouble to provide illustrations adapted for an English speaking market. They are taken straight from the German version without the labels being translated into English.” All this may refer to the manual on the computer, the article is none too clear at this point so I’ll still go ahead and find out if the written manual is available for sale.
William


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (culverwood)*

Hi William:
Oh - that is not good news. I will be in the UK in early August - I have to go to Cambridge. Perhaps we can get together then and have a look at the manual, are you in that area of the UK?
Michael


----------



## phaeton Also (Feb 12, 2005)

my sunroof didn't close and re opened. The dealer replaced the wind deflector motor and it has worked perfect ever since


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Please see this post for detailed information explaining how to 'adapt' a sunroof. Normally, most problems related to sunroof movement (not closing properly, stopping before it is fully closed or fully opened, etc.) can be resolved by 'adapting' the sunroof. This presumes, of course, that there is no physical impediment to operation, such as dirt in the tracks, a lack of lubricant, deformation of any of the components, etc.
Michael
How to adapt moving components (windows, seats, sunroof, trunk lid)


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here are the instructions from the Phaeton service manual that explain how to adapt the sunroof motor. Normally this will only be necessary if power has been removed from the car and the sunroof is not operating properly.
As you will realize once you read it, the translation from the original German text is not the best. If you are having difficulty understanding the nuance of the instruction, try re-arranging the sentence to put the verb at the end, this might help. That is how the sentence was originally composed.
Michael
*Sunroof Adaptation Instructions*


----------



## mikehoel (Aug 27, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (GTINC)*

My rotary dial for the sunroof has become detached. if you push on it it just kind of freewheels. If you pull down and hold it in position, you can rotate the dial and it still works fine. Is this an easy solution or does it need to go to the dealer?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (mikehoel)*

There is a solution, I think it is in the forum table of contents (I don't have time to search at the moment) - if you don't find it there, do a keyword search on "sunroof dial".
Michael


----------



## 357Sig (Oct 9, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Here is a link to that topic
"Sunroof Dial (Just Spins)"
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3938487
Bill


----------



## mikehoel (Aug 27, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (357Sig)*

Thanks Michael
When I opened the cover, I had 2 of the clips broken, not due to force. I am the only one who drives this car. I made a temporary repair yesterday before I saw the thread on the bic pen repair. Taking a small piece of cellulr type foam about 3/8 thick, remove the remote antenna and place the foam there and then replace the antenna. It holds the dial in place snugly and works fine. Thanks for all the replies


----------



## EdLogix (May 12, 2006)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (mikehoel)*

Michael,
Has the Phaeton a different sunroof than other VW models?
To be more precisely in my question:
The sunroof blind is also electrically operated?
This question comes to my mind by looking at the schematics and seeing 3 motors.
Hector.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (EdLogix)*

Hi Hector:
I think that the Phaeton sunroof is pretty much the same as the sunroof on any other VW, except that it has an electrically operated sunshade and an electrically adjusted air deflector.
All the parts are made by Webasto, who also supply the majority of the sunroofs for other VW models. So, I think it is probably pretty conventional.
There is one motor to operate the sliding glass panel, another motor to operate the sunshade below the glass panel, and yet a third motor (this one a stepper) to fractionally raise and lower the air deflector at the front of the sunroof aperture in response to varying vehicle speeds.
As far as I can tell, the three motors are electrically and mechanically independent of each other.
I can't ever remember a report of a problem with a sunroof, except for either adaptation (calibration) related issues, which are easily solved if you have the correct information (the difficulty is finding the information), or reports of the retention clips for the round sunroof control dial breaking (a cosmetic issue, rather than a functional issue).
Michael


----------



## EdLogix (May 12, 2006)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thank you for your answer.
That's what I though, an electric sunshade. vs the manual sunshade in other VW models.
Does it have a separate control for opening and closing the sunshade?
Hector.


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Does Not CLose easily (EdLogix)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EdLogix* »_Does it have a separate control for opening and closing the sunshade?

Hi Hector,
I hope you don't mind me jumping in to answer a question directed to Michael, but when I actually know the answer (which isn't very often







) I try to help:
Yes, there are two buttons, one on either side of the sunroof control dial. One button opens the sunshade and the other closes it. By depressing the button momentarily, the sunshade will cycle completely to the open or closed position. If you press the button for a longer period of time it will allow you to incrementally adjust the position of the sunshade. Basically it works much the same as a power window switch that has the one-touch open and close feature. Of course, if the sunroof is closed and you twist the dial to slide open the sunroof (partially or completely) the sunshade will automatically retract to the same extent as the sunroof. However, interestingly if you twist the sunroof control dial to the "vent" postion, the sunshade remains closed unless you choose to open it with the sunshade control button. Also, note that the sunshade has the pinch protection feature, as do the sunroof and windows.


_Modified by remrem at 8:27 AM 6-4-2009_


----------



## velocitygt (Dec 25, 2010)

*Sunroof shade won't open or close*

Hi Everyone, 

I am new to the forum and had just became a Phaeton owner less than 2 weeks ago. I am very happy to have the privilege to own such a car, mine is an 04 V8 5 seater. 

I discovered a couple of minor issues in the car, one of which is the sunroof sunshade that just won't move. The sunroof operates just fine, but the shade won't open or close no matter what. Can anyone give a few pointers on the cause or a possible fix for this? 

Thanks! 

James


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hello James:

Welcome to the forum.

The most essential tool for troubleshooting problems with a Phaeton (and, for that matter, with most modern vehicles produced in the last decade) is a diagnostic scan tool.

When a portion of a vehicle has a problem, it will _usually_ set a fault code, which can be read using the diagnostic scan tool. So, by scanning the vehicle first, you can determine exactly what the cause of the problem is - a blown fuse, a loose wire, excessive friction, whatever. You then make the necessary mechanical interventions according to the results you read on the diagnostic scan.

There is some additional discussion about diagnostic scan tools at these posts, all of which are listed in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category): 

VAS 5051 Diagnostic and Programming Tool
VAG-COM Diagnostic Scan Tool and the Phaeton - reference information 
....Additional Information about the VAG-COM diagnostic scan tool
....VAG-COM Controller Lists from Phaetons (for comparing coding, controller part numbers, software revisions, etc.)
....How to determine controller software version levels using a diagnostic scan tool

Generally speaking, a diagnostic scan tool for one particular vehicle (e.g. a Phaeton) will work on all vehicles produced by that manufacturer (e.g. Volkswagen, Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, etc.).

A good diagnostic scan tool (such as a VAG-COM) costs about $300, but it will very quickly pay for itself. An alternative is to find someone in your neighborhood who already has one and get them to scan your car at a local get-together (GTG). You can find lists of who has a scan tool and is willing to share it in the *Regional Forums* or in the *VAG-COM Diagnostic Forum*

Michael


----------



## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

velocitygt said:


> Hi Everyone,
> 
> I am new to the forum and had just became a Phaeton owner less than 2 weeks ago. I am very happy to have the privilege to own such a car, mine is an 04 V8 5 seater.
> 
> ...


 Hi James, welcome aboard. I'm a new Phaeton owner as well. 
Your post made be think about a problem that the previous owner had with his (my) Phaeton when he first got it. 
He could not get the rear power sunshade to move at times. 
Long story short, after several visits to the dealer with no faults found it turns out he wasn't pushing the button hard enough, kid you not!! 
I'm not suggestion that this is happening to you , but I thought I would throw it out there. Just make sure you are pushing the "close" button (I assume it's opened?), a quick push closes the shade all the way, a "hold" of the button allows you to stop the shade anywhere. I'd try both. 
The close button for the shade is to right of the sunroof "dial", the "open" button to the left (drivers" side). 
You never know...just sayin'!! 
Are you anywhere near Philly in need of a Vag-Com scan?


----------



## velocitygt (Dec 25, 2010)

Thanks Michael. I have read a lot of your posts, and I am so thankful people such as yourself are here, with your incredible knowledge and dedication to this community! 

I have placed an order for VAGCOM and will try to learn to use it. All this is new to me, but I consider myself to be fairly handy and tech savy. Will see what I can do with it. 

James 



PanEuropean said:


> Hello James:
> 
> Welcome to the forum.
> 
> ...


----------



## velocitygt (Dec 25, 2010)

johnt26 said:


> Hi James, welcome aboard. I'm a new Phaeton owner as well.
> Your post made be think about a problem that the previous owner had with his (my) Phaeton when he first got it.
> He could not get the rear power sunshade to move at times.
> Long story short, after several visits to the dealer with no faults found it turns out he wasn't pushing the button hard enough, kid you not!!
> ...


 John, thanks for the suggestion. Yes it is stuck at the fully open position, and I am 100% sure I have located and pressed the buttons the right way. 

I am in NYC, and have just placed an order for VAGCOM. Will test it out and learn how to use it. A drive down to Philly certainly would be a nice way to stretch the car's legs a little though! By the way, is there a phaeton owners club or something in the North East? 

James


----------



## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

velocitygt said:


> John, thanks for the suggestion. Yes it is stuck at the fully open position, and I am 100% sure I have located and pressed the buttons the right way.
> 
> I am in NYC, and have just placed an order for VAGCOM. Will test it out and learn how to use it. A drive down to Philly certainly would be a nice way to stretch the car's legs a little though! By the way, is there a phaeton owners club or something in the North East?
> 
> James


 I don't think there is owner's club but some folks on the forum have GTG (get togethers). I know there are several of us new and not so new owners in Eastern PA, NWNJ, NYC, Harrisburg, Allentown and so forth. 
We should plan a Mid- Atlantic GTG. Who has a large heated aircraft hangar with a wet bar? 
I'd love to see a bunch of Phaetons together so that we can swap stories, actually I'd love to see ONE other Phaeton


----------



## velocitygt (Dec 25, 2010)

*update*

finally had the chance to bring the car in for service, and got an update on the sunroof visor.

The motor stopped working, simple enough. But it will cost $700 part + labor to fix. The part needs to be ordered. My (non-VW) extended warranty won't cover it. I guess this will be my initiation fee to join the club.... besides obviously paying for the car... hopefully there wouldn't be too many more.

By the way, the dealer said low power steering fluid was the cause of a whining noise i heard coming from the engine compartment, the driver's side. He also said there was no leaks or anything wrong found. If there's no leak, how could the fluid be low?? That I don't understand.

James


----------



## Zaphh (Jul 5, 2008)

THe power fluid line is known to corrode at some points, if the car has been used in salty conditions.

Check it out in the TOC. It must be somewhere.

You had better keep an eye on the fluid level, as running with low fluid will likely damage the pump, which will then be many $$$ to replace.

P.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

James:

Here is a direct link to the post that Pierre referenced above (about corrosion of the power steering fluid line): Steering - Power Steering Line Corrosion (references Campaign 97Q1, criteria 2)

Michael


----------



## velocitygt (Dec 25, 2010)

*gets more dramatic*

To continue the update on the sunroof visor,

the dealer got the motor in and I brought the car back to be installed, now they tell me there's another problem. The motor shorted out the control module.... another $600 part...

once again, my stupid service contract doesn't cover it.... (will post an the warranty thread about this).

Can anybody give me suggestions on how I should proceed? Should I pay for both the motor AND the control module?

By the way, thanks Michael, for the info on the power steering line.

James


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


----------

