# Vapor separator mod



## 805 (May 11, 2004)

So after hearing about all the pvcs blowing and the oil collecting in the intercooler pipes and finally coming to a rest on the intake valves, I installed the BSH stage 2.But after reading a few posts I realized the vapors were still being put back into the intake tract before the turbo no less. So I decided to install a true vapor separator made by Mann filters as seen here. http://www.republicsales.com/p...V.pdf 
I just plugged the passage going through the valve cover to the turbo inlet and ran valvecover outlet to the inlet of the separator. I chose to vent to the atmosphere with a K&N reverse oiled black series filter. Its been 2 days and only caught a slight whiff of vapors in the pass compartment. If its too much I'll just run the outlet from the separator to the turbo inlet passage that I blocked off knowing oil/vapors have been separated well.
The K&N filter flows really well and the mushroom looking thing is actually a valve that will bleed of excessive pressure should that ever happen. As well as the K&N flows,I doubt it.
The separator has as a provision for a drain back hose but I know that they will hold (about) 7 - 10 ounces of oil in the bottom of the separator. Theres more than enough room to drain into a cup when needed. The filter is reusable. I've sprayed them down with brake clean and dried them no problem .
The vc hose is 5/8 and goes to 1 in hose at the separator which I just bonded together and no need for a clamp.
The separator can be ordered here http://www.republicsales.com/p...t.php and the K&N I got through a Car Quest. Heres the filter http://www.knfilters.com/searc...-1370 








































Hope this helps.
Emilio


_Modified by 805 at 2:35 PM 4-16-2009_


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Excellent idea.
Now give it some time to see if it works...


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## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Nice!
What heat wrap is that on your intake? Pm me.


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi)*

very interesting. looks beefy, and designed for this purpose basically be folks who design stuff for this purpose.....that's reassuring...My question would be how might it perform in the Northeast cold. let us know what you catch in there.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

fantastic! that's the same seperator i was thinking about running... interesting that you chose to make it atmospheric... any idling problems or stalling between shifts? very curious to see how this works and what it catches after a little time on the car. great work!


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_fantastic! that's the same seperator i was thinking about running... interesting that you chose to make it atmospheric... any idling problems or stalling between shifts? very curious to see how this works and what it catches after a little time on the car. great work!

No, idling problems or stalls because vacum from the intake manifold has been eliminated thru the use of BSH's pvc fix


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## ShutItDown (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: (805)*

Subscribed for updates.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Personally I would continue to have it hooked up to the intake pre turbo. Without a source of vacuum you are relying 100% on pressure in the crankcase to push out the vapor. Pressure hurts power, so basically if that method is working you are probably losing power. You want (controlled)vacuum on the crankcase.


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

Hmm, thats interesting. Now I wonder.
I was going off someone who did pressure logs from a map sensor and found that crank case ventillation was just fine with a vented to atmosphere catch can with no vacum assist.
Anybody else have some input?


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

are you saying someone actually hooked up a map sensor and logged the crankcase pressure? That I would love to see the data from, I've been meaning to do that on mine for a while as a test.
But that is also going to vary, NA Cars will proably have less crankcase pressure then a turbo car that is more likely to have some blow by. Plus our DI cars with lots of cylinder wash probably don't seal up as well as a manifold injection car. Hot and cold engine will change also. Lots of factors.
Also we have one say 1/4-1/2 inch hole venting, lots of cars like hondas for example put 2+ atmospheric vent points on just the valve cover and some on the block. 
If you have a link to that test please share it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

IM sent


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## jpimp61 (Mar 22, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

very nice


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## masterkaj (Feb 22, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Personally I would continue to have it hooked up to the intake pre turbo. Without a source of vacuum you are relying 100% on pressure in the crankcase to push out the vapor. Pressure hurts power, so basically if that method is working you are probably losing power. You want (controlled)vacuum on the crankcase. 

So how is the new BSH race can going to work? Isn't that an evaporation system, eliminating oil from reaching the intake valves all together.


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (masterkaj)*

So after having this convesation with Chris at Revotechnik I decided to hook up the vacuum source from the turbo.
"It has been proven that a vacuum on the crankcase does however improve performance. Can be argued that a vacuum source such as a slash cut tube in the exhaust or a vacuum pump diverting the vapor from the intake and only to a catch can could work better, but Id take my chances with the vacuum of the intake and some oil vapor vs no vacuum personally.
Also your catch can should filter out a great deal, probably more so then any other catch can setup I have seen including my own. But that also means more restriction and harder for those gases to push out of the crankcase into that catch can and through the filter.
Personally (just how i'd do it) is i would run your can back to the flange like it was on the BSH setup to get the vacuum from the intake.
If the filter works as good as it seems it should then you should have little problem with oil vapor, much less then anyone else at least"
The car is really doggy without the vac source. I mean at low rpm its really doggy say from 1200 to 2000 or so. I hooked up like this and its back to the way it was.Peppy as ever











_Modified by 805 at 3:36 AM 4-23-2009_


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

so what do you catch, and how exactly does it drain?


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*

Its only been 200 miles so I don't expect to see much. There is some moisture being caught. if you look at the 2nd pick you'll barely see the nipple on the bottom of the separator. it will take a 3/8 hose but I just plug it and drain when neccesary. There is actually enough room to stick a cup under there.
I just got back from some errands around town and what a different car it is with the vac source hooked up. I can't believe how doggy/boggy the car was.
SWEET
NOW I'm stoked


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## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

I really like this. Thinking about getting BSH stage 1 and modifying it to work with this. Nice find!


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## chiuy (Jul 22, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (loudgli)*

I am sorry, but what exactly is the difference between this and the BSH stage 2 catch can?


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (chiuy)*

This is an actual oil vapor separator designed to remove oil from the vapor.
In my opinion catch tanks can't really do that effectivly. It just kills me that there are catch tanks out there that are just open tanks with no baffling inside. I didn't want to put steel wool in a tank either. And this is kinda affordable.


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

so you have the bottom drain not open? or have attached a pipe or valve to it? 
how exactly do you empty it? 
I see it seems to work best with both input and output routed to bhs stage 1.


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*

Yeah, i just plug the drain cause the Mann actually holds about 3-4 shot glasses of fluid at the bottom no problem and to empty it a just pull out the filter and jam a couple of paper towels and they just suck it out


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

nice, I really like this. it really looks OEM, and is engineered for this purpose exactly.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*

I looked up the can in the link that you posted. It seems that bottom port is attached to a checkvalve. If I were you, I'd block off the one BSH port like you originally had it, but I'd run that bottom line of the can back to the intake manifold, there shouldn't be any problem, being this is a real seperator. The manifold itself is probably a better source of vacuum than the turbo, at low rpm at least. 
In that case, the BSH thing is pretty useless, other than to make things look pretty. You could just hook the top can port up to the factory PCV valve outlet. Or use a blockoff plate with only one port to begin with.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_are you saying someone actually hooked up a map sensor and logged the crankcase pressure? 
If you have a link to that test please share it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

+1


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (saaber2)*

The bottom port is open all the time, its more like a blow off valve like if the filter were to plug it would vent there.
And I got the map sensor info from one of the FFE catch can threads. 1.8t or the 2.0t thread
Ed never posted the results though


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*


_Quote, originally posted by *805* »_ So after having this convesation with Chris at Revotechnik I decided to hook up the vacuum source from the turbo.










_Modified by 805 at 3:36 AM 4-23-2009_

so in the block plate you have, the 2 left holes are not connected in the plate, are they? 
and for install similar to yours, is there any value in doing anything different with the corrugated line from the OEM separator that right now goes to the OEM VC via the plate?


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iGen3* »_
so in the block plate you have, the 2 left holes are not connected in the plate, are they? 
and for install similar to yours, is there any value in doing anything different with the corrugated line from the OEM separator that right now goes to the OEM VC via the plate? 

no they go to seperate passages.


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## RABIDRABBIT1983 (May 13, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*

you can get a better view of whats going on here http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4338295

in a few BSH threads they show the covers all cut up and you really see whats going where.


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (RABIDRABBIT1983)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RABIDRABBIT1983* »_you can get a better view of whats going on here http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4338295

in a few BSH threads they show the covers all cut up and you really see whats going where. 

ok...it's starting to make sense.....thanks..


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*

Just a little update ,I installed the S3 intercooler and wai today and 3 drops of oil dripped out of the whole intake track. And that could of been pre-install. I've seen a shot glass worth of oil come out before so I think its doin it job. I never really have to drain it. At most I just take a paper towel and soak up the couple of thimbles full of water in there. I've cleaned the filter once by just soaking it in gas and then air drying. The fuel turned pretty black from the oil.
All in all I'm pretty stoked on how it works


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

so you are satisfied with the plumbing route as well? Thanks.


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (iGen3)*

Yes, adding a little vacuum to evacuate helps tremendously. Without, was car had no low end torque. Alot of people believe you need vacuum .


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## windsorblue (Jul 23, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (805)*

Bumping this thread because this mod makes sense to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
805, thank you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GTI+MTB (Apr 13, 2007)

Bump. Seems like the best solution so far. Like to know if anyone has more input on this mod.


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## aeproberts21 (Apr 10, 2007)

*Re: (GTI+MTB)*

How is this filter much different than the baffling in the other catch cans for our cars? 
I understand it might be a "finer" filter, but it also looks like it would need to be replaced. The original BSH catch cans relied on steel wool, but the newer ones all have metal baffling.


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## 805 (May 11, 2004)

*Re: (aeproberts21)*

The filter is actually kinda thick. Its quite a few layers of the material you see in the pics. I usually get a peanut butter jar and fill with gas, put the filter in for like 10 minutes and soak the oil out.Then just shake out and let dry.Generally speaking, if something is oil resistant its also fuel resistant so the gas doesn't seem to attack the filter much.
The gas is actually pretty black afterwards.
It seems its common in the industry to just put a layer or 2 of the mesh in the can and its good to go. I prefer a more thorough method to separate the oil from the vapor.It seems like the moisture/water is gonna condense in either style of can.


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## iGen3 (Mar 21, 2002)

*Re: (805)*

does your rear PCV crackpipe have checkvalve? 
just put my provent on in recirc mode, and I think my rear valve may be sputtering. 
and I think when it does this, the Provent sputters gasses out the cap pressure relief valve. 
I'll take a peek at the rear pipe and punch out the checkvalve if there is one. make sense?


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## Alik4041 (May 22, 2009)

I'm bringing this thread back to life. I want updates!


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## keihin (Jun 5, 1999)

Has anyone else tried this product? It makes sense to me that this filter element would do a better job at separating and absorbing oil vapors that the mesh and plates in the other catch can products. 

For those using it: Do the catch fluids seem to be mostly or all oil, or is it condensing and catching water vapor as well? 

The advertising for the other catch cans showing the trapped fluids generally look like they're condensing out a lot of water vapor. Nothing wrong with that, but those vapors aren't a problem and catching them means that the can has to be emptied far more often. If this unit is capturing the oil and letting the water vapor pass, it would be just as effective in preventing carbon deposits, but much easier to live with.


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

keihin said:


> Has anyone else tried this product? It makes sense to me that this filter element would do a better job at separating and absorbing oil vapors that the mesh and plates in the other catch can products.
> 
> For those using it: Do the catch fluids seem to be mostly or all oil, or is it condensing and catching water vapor as well?
> 
> The advertising for the other catch cans showing the trapped fluids generally look like they're condensing out a lot of water vapor. Nothing wrong with that, but those vapors aren't a problem and catching them means that the can has to be emptied far more often. If this unit is capturing the oil and letting the water vapor pass, it would be just as effective in preventing carbon deposits, but much easier to live with.


 All of the twin charged diesel engines I work on use the same "breather" and they seem to work well. It's made by Mann and it's call a provent. You can get one on ebay for about 150 but you will still need a block off plate. You can probably just find a used cc setup. I just bought a two month old Forge set up for 200. If you have the extra cash the provent is a good unit. A lot of tdi guys use them.


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## keihin (Jun 5, 1999)

Thanks U.G. 

Can you characterize the glop that these cans tend to catch. Does it look like condensed oil, or is it that frothy, brown, mostly water, mousse-like substance that you tend to see in a catch can?


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## U.G. MKV (May 31, 2010)

keihin said:


> Thanks U.G.
> 
> Can you characterize the glop that these cans tend to catch. Does it look like condensed oil, or is it that frothy, brown, mostly water, mousse-like substance that you tend to see in a catch can?


 With the pro vent I can only speak for diesel applications and usually it just looks like straight oil.


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## keihin (Jun 5, 1999)

That's interesting. Thanks.

I wonder if the gasoline engines will be the same. 

It sounds like maybe the crankcase gases are staying hot enough to keep the vapor dissolved, and the filter is picking up only the oils. That seems ideal, especially if you choose not to run the trapped fluids back to the crankcase. It would take much longer to fill one of these cans with oil than it would oil plus water vapor. And it would mean the water vapor is being routed into the intake mixture and right out tailpipe, exactly as it should be. 

Just FYI for anyone on this thread - it looks like vortex member lour32 is thinking about putting together a kit for these: adapter plate, mounting bracket, hoses, clamps etc. More discussion on that thread. 

See http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5557983-A-true-oil-separator-system!


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## lour32 (Nov 15, 2004)

keihin said:


> That's interesting. Thanks.
> 
> I wonder if the gasoline engines will be the same.
> 
> ...


Hey, I can answer your question, I have had this kit on cars testing for the last 1.5 years or so. In the cold months it will catch oil/water if drain setup not connect to crankcase, the filter element inside the canister will catch probably 75% oil. But it is very essential to have this system drain back to crankcase for the filter to work efficiently. As i said before do not worry about the condensed water it will catch. Water makes it into the crankcase by condensation, the condensed water that you see in the canister would be condensing in your oil pan/crankcase regardless of whether you have a catch can setup or stock PCV. Once the oil reaches operating temperature, the water becomes water vapor, and exits the crankcase with the pressurized gasses in the crankcase. Water condensation in the crankcase of an internal combustion engine is inevitable. Condensation that starts out in the oil pan, turns into water vapor at operating temperatures, and condenses again in the Provent 200 canister and then the cycle starts all over again. This setup that will be coming out in a few weeks, will be a install and forget setup. You will just have to clean filter element without having to remove canister or any parts. just unscrew Provent cap clean the filter and put it back in and your done. You will never have to be worried, oh is the canister is full, period! Also forgot to mention that these Provent canisters that will be included in the kit will be fitted with a higher rated check valve spring as the one that comes from factory is to weak for our FSI/TSI based engines.


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