# Bizarre question



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

Okay, so, bizarre question: what gauge steel was used to stamp the floorpans of the B1 VWs? How about body panels?
I'm _learning_ TIG process welding, specifically to do such work, and I wanted to know what gauge steel I'm shooting to work on. There are some floorpan mods I want to do to at least the Fox and the Dasher, but I'm not doing it without knowing I can weld those metals confidently.
Also, I, in my infinite luck, managed to pull a transmission from an early 80s gasser Quantum in a scrapyard. I get it cleaned up, and discover my double-edged luck: I managed to find the _one production month only_ 2N transmission, not the 2*M* I thought I had scored.
So I have a .684 fifth gear, not the .600 fifth gear I was hoping for. To pull that down a bit more, would it be possible to put the 3.89 ring and pinion from the Fox's PW four-speed into the 2N five speed? That would give me a 2.8 overall ratio in fifth gear, which with the 155/80 tires I'm using would give me 2357 RPM for 60mph. Not excellent for a diesel, but not shabby either.
Finding the proper 2M transmission and doing the same swap would give me ~2100 RPM, which would be better in my opinion.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Bizarre question (turbinepowered)*

Kurt,
I assume that the steel in the bodies conforms to a metric standard, not gauge thickness. That said, figure 24-22 gauge. It's pretty thin, but TIG can weld tin foil once you get used to it. 
Swapping the R&P set is not possible because the pinion and the main shaft are one piece, and the main shaft on the 3.89 has a missing space for a gear from a 5-speed perspective.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: Bizarre question (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_Kurt,
I assume that the steel in the bodies conforms to a metric standard, not gauge thickness. That said, figure 24-22 gauge. It's pretty thin, but TIG can weld tin foil once you get used to it.

Was afraid of that. I'm a _long_ way from that level of competence, I was hoping for something thicker, say 12-14. I have only vague notions of steel sheet gauges, apparently. 

_Quote »_Swapping the R&P set is not possible because the pinion and the main shaft are one piece, and the main shaft on the 3.89 has a missing space for a gear from a 5-speed perspective. 

Well _that_ sucks something ferocious. There isn't a 5-speed with something a little taller than 4.11 either, is there?
Granted, I know it's only 150 RPM difference @ 60 between the 4.11 and the 3.89, but that can be a big difference on a diesel.
Guess this means the search resumes for that 2M.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: Bizarre question (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_I was hoping for something thicker, say 12-14. 

Nowhere close! Practice some and you will have it. It's simply a matter of knowing where to start with power settings and knowing how to read the pool.

_Quote »_Well _that_ sucks something ferocious. There isn't a 5-speed with something a little taller than 4.11 either, is there?

Nothing. They are all 4.11. The 2M/5M and the bump in compression will be the collective ticket for economy on the Quantum.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

Wait, the floor pan steel is 22 gauge-ish too? That seems really weird, I was looking at some sheet steel earlier and 22 seems really plausible for body parts, but the floor pan? Just seems like it'd be thicker than that.


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## Southcross (Jul 2, 2004)

*FV-QR*

the floor isn't a stress/load bearing surface... if you custom make your own sheets, have a machine shop/body shop roll some structural ribs into the sheets to strengthen them


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_Wait, the floor pan steel is 22 gauge-ish too?

Wafer thin.







There are parts, such as the frame "rails," that are made of heavier material, but the floor and tunnel are very thin. It all has strength because it is all welded together and has all of the ribbing and creases everywhere. Believe me: when I started cutting my Fox apart, it all turned to jello.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
Wafer thin.







There are parts, such as the frame "rails," that are made of heavier material, but the floor and tunnel are very thin. It all has strength because it is all welded together and has all of the ribbing and creases everywhere. Believe me: when I started cutting my Fox apart, it all turned to jello. 

Mmmm, so putting in a foot panel to hold turn signal, high/low and a hazard lights switch is going to require I be able to weld onto sheetmetal. Good to know, I suppose... a bit disheartening, but good to know.
Ditto for the "battery tray under the cargo area where the rear seat used to be" in the Fox. And possibly the Dasher, just to get it out of the engine bay.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_Mmmm, so putting in a foot panel to hold turn signal, high/low and a hazard lights switch is going to require I be able to weld onto sheetmetal.

Trying to make it a bus? This sounds a bit silly to me.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
Trying to make it a bus? This sounds a bit silly to me.

In a way, yes it is a bit silly and I am somewhat trying to make it a bus. It seems absurd until you really use such things, then you wonder how you go about not using them in every day driving.
Part of it is the desire to make something unique, the other is to get that sheer convenience factor by making a not-frequently used part of the body do the work so my hands can stay firmly on the wheel. Tri-mode quad lights (Low/Med-distance high/High) is easier with two switches: have the floor button go from low to high, and have the stalk switch choose which high beam mode I'm on.








Then too I find it kinda cool, in an unfathomable way. Much like the fascination with lowering cars is cool in a way I find completely alien.


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