# S4 motor'd GTi



## DuBBCRuZR VR6 (Dec 5, 2001)

hey just curious?

Can it physically be done......S4 motor/drivetrain into a MKIII GTi? (I know it be extensive and PITA but) is it at all possible? Anyone? Any experience, thoughts on the matter? 
I guess really the motor fitment issues? I know the floorpan would have to be custom and all that


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: S4 motor'd GTi (DuBBCRuZR VR6)*

buy an s4, it would be cheaper... and i think the engine bay is too small anyways


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## nuts4x4 (Apr 26, 2003)

theres a company in england now in the process of building one , they are TSR , Tim Styles Racing, they have also biult a s4`d passat


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (nuts4x4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nuts4x4* »_theres a company in england now in the process of building one , they are TSR , Tim Styles Racing, they have also biult a s4`d passat

anyone can do a s4 motored passat, its the same chassis.. (B5), so it'll bolt right in


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## COULDBEFASTER (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: S4 motor'd GTi (DuBBCRuZR VR6)*

well there is only one major problem. the motor sits different in audi's then in vw's. i dont know the real words but vw sit sideways and audi's sit longitudional? (front to back) im sure it can be done. anything can be done, but at the amount and time you would have to spend would be outrageous. alot of the plasma cutter and welding, but im sure that thing would be a he!! of a rocket.


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## Cypher2k (Nov 23, 2000)

engine bay is not going to do it without custom fenders and cutting the unibody.
kind of a deathtrap.


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## hackaholic (Dec 21, 2004)

these engines sit the same as a vr6, i can`t see why it can`t be done..... once i hit the jackpot, i`ll show you my 2.7t rabbit!!


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (hackaholic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hackaholic* »_these engines sit the same as a vr6, i can`t see why it can`t be done..... once i hit the jackpot, i`ll show you my 2.7t rabbit!!

obviously you have no idea what you're talking about


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## BLK20vt (Nov 7, 2002)

*Re: (Slayer)*

So you've decided to put a 2.7t into your MKIII GTI. Good for you. You have a long road ahead, but once it's completed, I'm sure you will be happy as a pig in mud.
First you need a donor car. S4's don't come cheap. So be prepared to have some serious bankroll just for the donor. 
The other MAJOR consideration is the drive train. Did the MKIII's ever come with 4motion? I'm not sure if the passat's did, but even so it still wouldn't fit. This is where you will have to custom fabricate and engineer an entire 4 wheel drive system. You might be able to use the Haldex/Quattro with some extensive modifications.
Given the complexities of the previous condition, I feel it might be more cost efficient to place the engine the way it was designed, longitudinally, and find a transmission to bolt up to make the car rear wheel drive. This would elminate massive amounts of structural modification to the unibody. The trick here is finding a transmission to work. It will still be expensive, but probably slightly less than designing 4 motion.
Now, if you do have your heart set on this, or, you have enough money to complete this process, (although I would seriously question your spending practices), you would be better off buying an MKIV golf, taking it to HPA for a 4 motion conversion. They take about 2 months or so last I heard. This would be cheaper than the MKIII because it has parts designed for this chassis already. It still does cost nearly $20,000 though.
After HPA is through, trailer the car back down, to your garage and get ready to put in, pull out that 2.7t engine and tranny many times before you get it to fit properly. 
Nothin is impossible with enough money, but feasibility and practicality play important roles with any project. If I had to estimate the costs, I would place the 4motion MKIII 2.7t over $100,000. The RWD MKIII 2.7t slightly less, probably around $90,000. The 4motion MKIV 2.7t would be the cheapest, but not by much. Probably in or around $75,000. 
If you got the money, do it, DO IT. Then bring it to waterfest, and completely dominate the competition.
I really can't believe i actually took the time to write this out


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## HaterOfHondas (Nov 1, 2001)

*Re: (BLK20vt)*

Im sure it could be done for alot less. Cant you use an all wheel drive tranny as a two wheel drive trany? I dont know much about awd trannys.


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (HaterOfHondas)*

yes you could use the tranny for 2wd but i dont think this guy realizes how much bigger the 2.7t is than the vw engine bay. the motor is quite a bit wider and hell of alot longer so it would be sticking into the cabin


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## HaterOfHondas (Nov 1, 2001)

*Re: (Slayer)*

It could be done very easy if you were a master welder and made a tube front end. Any way you try to shoe horn that thing in there its not going in with out a fight.. Hey dont get me wrong I would love to see one!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DuBBCRuZR VR6 (Dec 5, 2001)

*Re: (HaterOfHondas)*

hey guys, 
Im the one who started the post. I was just curious thats all. Unfortunately, its not in the cards for me to do it even if I had a buttload of cash that I could justify trying this. It still cool to dream though. thanks for the replies. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Yorldi (Jul 20, 2004)

I'm also willing to do it on a Golf Rallye. I've seen an audi TT and another S3, bothe with those engines and a full Quattro transmission. Who said impossible?


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## Slayer (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: (Yorldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yorldi* »_I'm also willing to do it on a Golf Rallye. I've seen an audi TT and another S3, bothe with those engines and a full Quattro transmission. Who said impossible?

tt's and s3's dont have the 2.7l biturbo v6 motor.. they have 1.8t turbo's which will fit in anything


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## Yorldi (Jul 20, 2004)

I know, but I've said there's a TT and an Audi S3 around there, with the 2.7 RS4 engine and drivetrain, working, and yes, it fits!


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## VWAP Swap (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (BLK20vt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BLK20vt* »_So you've decided to put a 2.7t into your MKIII GTI. Good for you. You have a long road ahead, but once it's completed, I'm sure you will be happy as a pig in mud.
First you need a donor car. S4's don't come cheap. So be prepared to have some serious bankroll just for the donor. 
The other MAJOR consideration is the drive train. Did the MKIII's ever come with 4motion? I'm not sure if the passat's did, but even so it still wouldn't fit. This is where you will have to custom fabricate and engineer an entire 4 wheel drive system. You might be able to use the Haldex/Quattro with some extensive modifications.
Given the complexities of the previous condition, I feel it might be more cost efficient to place the engine the way it was designed, longitudinally, and find a transmission to bolt up to make the car rear wheel drive. This would elminate massive amounts of structural modification to the unibody. The trick here is finding a transmission to work. It will still be expensive, but probably slightly less than designing 4 motion.
Now, if you do have your heart set on this, or, you have enough money to complete this process, (although I would seriously question your spending practices), you would be better off buying an MKIV golf, taking it to HPA for a 4 motion conversion. They take about 2 months or so last I heard. This would be cheaper than the MKIII because it has parts designed for this chassis already. It still does cost nearly $20,000 though.
After HPA is through, trailer the car back down, to your garage and get ready to put in, pull out that 2.7t engine and tranny many times before you get it to fit properly. 
Nothin is impossible with enough money, but feasibility and practicality play important roles with any project. If I had to estimate the costs, I would place the 4motion MKIII 2.7t over $100,000. The RWD MKIII 2.7t slightly less, probably around $90,000. The 4motion MKIV 2.7t would be the cheapest, but not by much. Probably in or around $75,000. 
If you got the money, do it, DO IT. Then bring it to waterfest, and completely dominate the competition.
I really can't believe i actually took the time to write this out









First of all, where do you get your information? And, do you have any fab experiance what so ever? Those prices are probably close, if you were doing it for a customer... but if you have the resources and skill to do it yourself, part and everything it can be done for probably under $25k...
By the way, the 2.7tt engine, is actually shorter in length than a VR6, but it is much wider.... And it will fit in the engine bay of a corrado longitudinally... A 20v 5cyl turbo does as well, oh and an audi V8 will fit in the same space....


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## BLK20vt (Nov 7, 2002)

*Re: (VWAP Swap)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWAP Swap* »_
First of all, where do you get your information? And, do you have any fab experiance what so ever? Those prices are probably close, if you were doing it for a customer... but if you have the resources and skill to do it yourself, part and everything it can be done for probably under $25k...
By the way, the 2.7tt engine, is actually shorter in length than a VR6, but it is much wider.... And it will fit in the engine bay of a corrado longitudinally... A 20v 5cyl turbo does as well, oh and an audi V8 will fit in the same space....

I got my information from my own experience. Three rabbit projects, one of which was a complete restoration. I didn't base those numbers for a customer, I just know how quickly projects go over budget. My 78 rabbit cost me 700 bucks and I set a budget of 3500. I quickly doubled that with misc parts and replacing rusted floor pans. Just ask punkassjim about his car. He has a MKIV wolfsburgh, in a MKIII GTI chassis, and just found floor pans from a passat I think for a 4wd conversion.
Like I said, a donor S4 does not come cheap. You could easily spend nearly half two 2/3's of your proposed 25 grand just on that alone. Even if you factor in materials, cutting and welding equipment, and I just don't see 25 working anywhere close. Then there's modifying the unibody into a tube frame up front.
I admitt, I might have been exaggerating, but I don't think by much. I just know from the prjects I've undertaken, and they weren't very intricate compared to this one, I'm just trying to give out some subjective advice based on what I've done.


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## Yorldi (Jul 20, 2004)

You can get COMPLETE S4 donor parts (engine, axles, gearbox, rear diff, both subrframes, arms, shocks, wiring, clocks, keys..... EVERYTHING for 3000€ here in Europe. I've been under an RS4 today on my job, and the most difficult part, is making room for the gearbox and exhaust. The rest is just a matter of patience and a bit of skills, not much more.


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## VWAP Swap (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (Yorldi)*

A wrecked S4 can be had pretty easily in thr US for around or under $5k. You can find engines for 800ish, or complete with ecu and harness for $2500- 3000, then use older, but similar drivetrain. Anyway you do it you can have a solid driveline setup for $5k or less. the rest is pretty easy fab work.


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## Vduber04 (Jun 1, 2004)

Hiya
I'm thinking about putting the 2.7 v6 twin turbo in a mk2. i'[ve thoughts of a few ways to do it. engine up front with 4 wheel drive gearbox converted to drive just the rear wheels. or getting a front wheel drive gearbox and putting it in the boot. where there is alot more room.
Which front wheel drive gearboxs fit this engine? does the 1.8turbo gearbox for it? or the mk4 v5 box?
Cheers for your help
Jack
(Europe)


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## Passssssat (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (Slayer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Slayer* »_
obviously you have no idea what you're talking about









Priceless....................


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Passssssat)*

Can be done and has been many times,just never been documented.
Last months edition of Audi Driver showed MTM's latest creation.It was a standard A3 that was sawed up and had a complete RS4 engine and Drivetrain placed into it,the car was dubbed an RS3 (well I could see why)
The money and time that it would take to carry out this kind of project would be better spent on a car or house.The Physical engine will fit in a MK3 engine bay with no problem as the Transverse engine bays are wider than the longitudinal ones in terms of frame rail separation length.
That being said if your going for a shock factor then it would be wiser for you to ditch the MK3 Chassis and invest in an old Audi 80 B2/B3 Frame that is allready quattro.The physical S4 engine will fit in there snugly with no problems once you utilise the B4 V6 engine mounts.The entire project would involve:
*1.* S4 Engine - $3000US
*2.* B2/B3 Frame - $1000US
*3.* Standalone - $1500US
*4.* Brakes - $1800US
*5.* Suspension - $1200uS
*6.* Wheels - $2000US
*7.*I could go on and on but I will stop.....
There is a reason why HPA and all the other charge $20K+ for these kind of custom jobs because lot of fabrication is needed and your pretty much reinventing the wheel.If the engine is fitted incorrectly(at an angle) then your at the risk of having alot more problems later on down the line.


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## VWAP Swap (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
That being said if your going for a shock factor then it would be wiser for you to ditch the MK3 Chassis and invest in an old Audi 80 B2/B3 Frame that is allready quattro.The physical S4 engine will fit in there snugly with no problems once you utilise the B4 V6 engine mounts.

Personally I think that if you wanted to go for shock factor, then a VW platform with the driveline from any generation S4 would be the way to go. Especially if you wanted to show off some fab skills. As you could probably throw a B5 S4 engine into either generation 80/90 chassis in about a week or less, as all that is required is some custom mounts, (or not if a B3 is used). All that said, I also think that a corrado is a much better looking (and lighter) car than the 90 coupes were. Maybe I can get my car together for waterfest this year...


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## spiritgun1 (Sep 5, 2003)

*Re: (VWAP Swap)*

just make it rear drive. and way to think outside the BOX. syncro if you want awd. it can happen. then again just turbo your vr and syncro.


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## MK3NORTH (Jul 14, 2004)

I am by no means stating here that it is an easy swap, although I think it is alot easier than some are making it out to be. 
Cut the floorpan of an S4 from the firewall back, use the S4 tranny, one off "au-couture" driveshaft, rear dif from a mustang for example, and au-couture rear axels. 
Subframe and electronics would be a PITA, although nothing stand-alone and fabrication can't overcome.


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## VWAP Swap (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (spiritgun1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spiritgun1* »_just make it rear drive. and way to think outside the BOX. syncro if you want awd. it can happen. then again just turbo your vr and syncro.

What'd you mean by that? Lots of people have synro's. I could have done one but wanted more of a challenge, and I wanted it to support more hp, and I didn't want to use a vr6.


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## BennyGTI (Feb 3, 2002)

*Re: (VWAP Swap)*

What about stuffing the 2.7L in a B4 Audi 90 Quattro.
I cant see it requiring a lot of custom work.
Anyone have any notes, pics, or knowledge of this swap being done?
Money to burn


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## VWAP Swap (Mar 27, 2003)

*Re: (BennyGTI)*

Thats sort of what Wiz was suggesting, It should be pretty straight forward, But i haven't heard of anyone doing it. If you'd like to try it, and want to supply the car and engine, I'll put it together for you.


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