# Phaeton Repair Costs



## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*The Phaeton's Back-Breaking Repair Costs*

Now, before any non-Phaeton owners out there get too excited about getting a steal-of-a-deal on a used VW Phaeton, let me demonstrate to you the hidden expenses to owning such a rare and exclusive $80,000+ MSRP vehicle.
Just tonight, I had my Phaeton W12 in for its Texas State inspection. That cost me $39.95. No biggie, right?
At the same time, I had the dealership check on a broken back piece of my driver's seat. Some plastic clips on the upper back plastic cover to the seat had broken at some point and, when the car sits in the sun for a while, the plastic parts expand and one half of the upper plastic cover falls off and just hangs there. Of course, this was not visually pleasant to look at and I wanted it remedied. So, the dealership order me a new upper plastic cover for the back of my seat. All is going well so far, right?
Well, here for your consideration is a picture of one of the upper back plastic covers and its price:








Now, that you have awoken from sticker shock, allow me to tell you this:
The Phaeton technician tried to install the new cover but BROKE IT. So, they've had to order ANOTHER upper plastic cover to try the installation again.
Thankfully for me, this part is covered under warranty. Should you ever seriously consider buying a Phaeton, DO NOT GO WITHOUT A COMPREHENSIVE WARRANTY!
Your wallet has been warned.
Logan.


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## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

Wow, thats just plain stupid and inexcusable to charge that much for that piece of plastic.
While I realize that many here are VW fans and the Phaeton was an extension into a VW luxury car, for people who have previously owned luxury cars, this is not normal for $80k+ cars. That same part in my old BMW 750 (a $90k car in 1996!) probably would have been less than $100.
I know I am venting, but I am surprised at the many times that people mention the repair costs and justify it because it is an expensive vehicle, but the bottom line is that it is no more expensive than the upper end BMW's, Merc's, etc. and I don't think that you will find their parts at the same price levels.


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: (noahas)*

Is that the cost for the part only? (Or combined with labor to take apart the seat?) 
If it is only for the part, the only thing I can remotely come up with (but certainly not justify!) is a combination of the Phaeton's low production numbers + high production costs + being an odd part to replace (rear seat trim is probably not readily on hand)...
For what it's worth, the 2004 base-model Toyota 4Runner I traded in had a problem with the non-motorized seat frames loosening/warping - cost to replace was over $2000...


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: The Phaeton's Back-Breaking Repair Costs (stjarna)*

_Hi Logan:
I don't want to encourage cross-posting, but because you made the original post in both 'The Car Lounge' and our forum, I have posted the same reply in The Car Lounge as well as here._


_Quote, originally posted by *stjarna* »_...Some plastic clips on the upper back plastic cover to the seat had broken at some point...and one half of the upper plastic cover falls off and just hangs there.

Logan:
Something is not right with the way your dealership made that repair. The upper cover of the rear seat back (the part that you illustrated) is held in place by two *replaceable *plastic clips that are sacrificial in nature (they get destroyed when you remove the upper seat back cover). VW chose this design to ensure that the upper seat back cover itself would not suffer any damage when it is removed from the seat frame - only the replaceable clips would be damaged.
There is a post in our forum at this link Seat Comfort, TB 72-05-05 Lumbar Support Lubrication to stop squeak that not only explains how to remove and re-install the upper seat back cover, but even provides the part numbers for the two replaceable clips. VW of America published a technical bulletin (72-05-05) that describes in detail how to remove and replace that part. I carried out that particular TB on my own W12 Phaeton two years ago, and I remember that the two clips were very inexpensive (less than $5).
There has to be something else going on that has caused that large repair bill.
Having said that, though, I agree fully with the main point that you made in your post, which is that it is a very wise idea to have an extended warranty on a Phaeton, most especially if it is a W12 Phaeton.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: The Phaeton's Back-Breaking Repair Costs (PanEuropean)*

Here is a photo showing the inside (forward face) of the upper seat back cover, and the two replaceable clips.
Michael


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

Nightmare, thats the same piece of trim that needs replacing on the car I am looking at buying......Even worse $1000 in the states probably = £1000 in the uk....Could be deal breaker that...


_Modified by alera at 5:23 AM 10-6-2007_


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## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: The Phaeton's Back-Breaking Repair Costs (PanEuropean)*

Again, Michael has (with his experience and in-depth knowledge of Phaetons) allayed whatever fears Logan's experience would have instilled in me and presumeably any other Phaeton owner.


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

There is actual damge to the the coating of the plastic on the one I am looking at. DOnt ask me how its happed probably carry something in the back seat.....
A really good interior detailer could probably make it look ok...


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## crvtt (Apr 9, 2007)

Just wanted to comment that I doubt any warranty outside of factory 4/50 would cover that repair. I have some experience with BMW CPO warranty and they do not cover trim pieces.


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: (crvtt)*

I did a search on vagcat.com (so I'm not sure how reliable that is) - anyway, it showed several "seat back covers" for the standard and convenience seats in cloth, leather, and leatherette:
3D0881971AB	cover for seat backrest with bag, left (N4C/N5W, Q1A, 4U4) price: N/A
3D0881971AC cover for seat backrest with bag, left (N4C/N5W/N1H, Q1A, 4U4) price: 102.5 Euro ($144.86)
3D0881971BA cover for seat backrest with bag, left (N5E/N5T, Q2J, 4U8) price: N/A
3D0881971BB cover for seat backrest with bag, left (N5T, Q2J, 4U9) price: 583 Euro ($823.90)
3D0881971BG cover for seat backrest with bag, left (N5E/N5T, Q2J, 4U8) price: 583 Euro ($823.90)
3D0881971BH	cover for seat backrest with bag, left (N5T, Q2J, 4U9) price: 583 Euro ($823.90)
It appears from the diagram that this is for the entire seat back cover, including the lower portion with the magazine pouch/bag - I don't know if the upper portion is offered seperately, but it would seem that shoud be less!
(Incidentally, the part on the back of Michael's part above is 3D0 881 971 BA 77H; from the list of part numbers, I would assume it is replaced with the "BB" part, which is the more expensive one).

For reference, here are the build codes for the seat features:
N1H - Vienna Leather seats
N4C - standard seat, seat and backrest cloth covered
N5E - convenience front seat, with seat and backrest leather/leatherette
N5T - convenience front seat, with seat and backrest in leather
N5W - standard seat, seat and backrest leather covered
Q1A - standard seat front
Q2J - convenience (comfort) seat front
4U4 back side of front seat - basic leatherette with pouch on seatback
4U8 back side of front seat - leatherette with pouch on seatback
4U9 back side of front seat - leather with pouch
reference color codes (append to the part number):
77H anthracite (EX,LA)
5A1	crystal grey (EY,LB)
78P	sunshine beige (EZ,LC)
4B5	navy blue (LD)
68W	petrol green (LE)



_Modified by CLMims at 3:16 PM 10-6-2007_


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

All those prices Ouch!


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: The Phaeton's Back-Breaking Repair Costs (PanEuropean)*

Thank you Michael! I will share this insightful information with my (poorer) dealer. Maybe I can catch them before the re-order the plastic cover in full.
Logan.


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## chryslerltd (Apr 12, 2007)

*Re: The Phaeton's Back-Breaking Repair Costs (stjarna)*

Hello
The costs will also be predicated on the fact that steel injection molding tools cost the same to produce ca. $150000 each, whether it is used for a 300000 per year model run ie Toyota Camry or only 2000 per year Phaeton run. 
The costs are spread out per vehicle over the 5-7 year of vehicles production run.
But - - The old part could have been easily repaired by gluing on another type of clipping system by any competent modelmaker for $200 max as it is not a structural part of the car.


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## vivaitalia (Dec 8, 2005)

Might I share an experience with my Mercedes Warranty Service: It was my last "scheduled" maintenace on my Benz before my warranty expired in a month... This is what my service rep told me behind closed doors...."We better schedule in as many repairs as possible" 4 new break pads and 2 new rotars for the front (even though they still had a few more thousand mile on them), replacement wood trims for 2 of the door panels, new wiper blades and arm, a whole new radio system b/c the tape player broke (even though I've put probably only 2 tapes into the bay for the 4 years I owned the car); a brand new driver seat b/c one of the heating element on the car seat would not power on (I live in Florida, rarely ever used it)..... He shared with me (not sure how much of it was true) that even though most of the parts were paid by Mercedes warranty, they get to bill almost all of the labor. Hmmmmmm


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (vivaitalia)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vivaitalia* »_This is what my service rep told me behind closed doors...."We better schedule in as many repairs as possible" 4 new break pads and 2 new rotars for the front (even though they still had a few more thousand mile on them), ... new wiper blades and arm, 

Brakes and wipers are considered "wear" items in most warranties. I wonder if they cover tires as well?


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: (Stinky999)*

Mercedes dont have a good reputation for build quality at all these days. They really cut down on the quality of their parts bin and the cars are assembled on cost these days not quality.
I have heard some really bad stories about problems with Mercedes in recent times. In the UK the problem is made worse as some Mercedes dealers are now owned and controlled directly by Mercedes (It is my understanding they are trying to get rid of the franchise system over here)
So you really are falling on deaf ears. My dad had alot of problems with our local Mercedes dealer with his current car....the service is terrible really for such expensive vehicles....


_Modified by alera at 7:39 AM 11-4-2007_


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## stjarna (Aug 18, 2005)

*Re: (alera)*

Mercedes = Chrysler.


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## Aristoteles (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: (stjarna)*

There are 147 dealerships in the UK mainland and just eight of them are Mercedes Direct, the wholly owned Mercedes distributor. The vast bulk of sales and repair outlets are franchised dealers. 
I've owned various Mercedes over the past twenty years, still do - old habits die hard. I agree with all the informed criticisms of the UK franchises which still vary greatly in attitude towards private customers, to their shame. 
The collapse in build quality over the decade to 2005 was nothing short of catastrophic. Mercedes will live with a rusty albatross around its neck for many years as manufacturer warranty claims can flow in for up to 30 years from first registration.
But they do make cars people want, which look good and are good to drive. Now they have to focus hard on the ownership experience - five and ten years down the line. Which is why I bought a new Phaeton and not a CLS. But I kept my E55 because I couldn't bear to part with it. They get some things right!


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## alera (Oct 2, 2007)

*Re: (Aristoteles)*

People seem to buy Mercedes regardless of price, or reliability. Thing is Audi have been making better looking, much better built and far more reliable cars for a few years now. Plus you can drive and leave them anywhere.
I have owned various Bmw and Mercedes but the A8 I just got rid of is easily the best car I have ever had in terms of refinement, build quality and value for money (I got it when it was a couple of years old) The only work done on it in the going on three years I had it was a couple of repalcement bulbs costing less than £5.
I just cant understand the facination with Mercedes. They do make some wonderful looking cars with exceptional performance but I couldnt bring myself to buy one these days. 
A friend bought a brand new e class a couple of years ago. He had to get rid of it after 6 months it was so unreliable....This is a £40,000 car we are talking about. VAG group easily have the measure of both Mercedes and BMW in terms of build quality and reliability. I hope the Phaeton lives up to expectations !


_Modified by alera at 7:51 AM 11-4-2007_


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

Does any one know the price for the windshield for 2004 v8?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Kuwaity)*

I am sure that glass prices will vary regionally, depending on how far away the retailer is from the glass production facility. Here in Canada, the price for a standard Phaeton windshield (one that is tinted, but does not have the metallic infra-red resistant film in it) is about $600, which is pretty typical for a full size car or truck windshield.
I am going to guess that if your Phaeton was originally built for delivery to the Gulf States region, it was probably equipped with an infra-red resistant windshield. This will probably be a bit more expensive because it is a specialty item.
Michael


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## Kuwaity (Apr 2, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

You are right. It costs apprx. $600 including labor.


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## ahwilder (Jan 17, 2007)

*Re: (Kuwaity)*

I just replaced the windshield on my 2004. It cast $816 (parts $612, labor $150, tax $53).


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## mkerr (Dec 12, 2005)

*sample costs*

Had a windshield done by dealer == $900
Brakes (front and back) done by trusted independant, $1100


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