# VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"......



## i81b4u (Mar 13, 2002)

Is anyone aware if this has been done yet? 
Currently I have both, the VR coming from a 95 GTI which is recieving the AWW/AEB treatment, so naturally I am contemplating what to do with the VR6. 
Turbo quattro sounds really snazzy.








My biggest question so far though, is how the vr block will mate to the quattro trans bellhouse, I haven't pulled the 5cyl yet, but doesn't it share the VW/Audi 4 cyl bolt pattern?


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## SuperGroove (Aug 20, 2000)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (i81b4u)*

I think you're going to have a bigger problem with how the VR6 is Traversely mounted, and the I5 being longitudinally mounted.


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (i81b4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *i81b4u* »_Is anyone aware if this has been done yet? 

It has been done, but I cant tell you how, just that it has been done. There is a QSW in Germany that has a biturbo VR6 install, this car managed to win 2nd place in the German street-legal dragracing scene in 2001 or 02 (cant remember which). It apparently has 462 hp on tap, and there's a couple of video clips of it floating on the net.


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (PerL)*

Anything can be donw with enough money and custom work. Would it bolt in? Nope. The VR6 won't bolt up to the quattro tranie without custom adaptors of some sort... But put enough money into it and anything is possible...


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (duandcc)*

Kennedy Engineering makes an adapter for that combo I'm pretty sure...


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## i81b4u (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (rcr_x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rcr_x* »_Kennedy Engineering makes an adapter for that combo I'm pretty sure...























Excellent! I think the VR6 would be a good match for the q, and seeing how Audi is using it (descendant of) in the TT, well....legit? (hehe)
I realized the custom work that the hot side would need, but fabbing a custom exhaust would be the least of factors to turn me away.
I also wonder about hood clearance, but at least I am feeling somewhat compelled now (thx rcr_x!)
btw does anyone have a link to the bi-turbo QSW? I couldn't find it in the search.


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## i81b4u (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (i81b4u)*

Yes, Kennedy has them, $540.00 for the kit http://www.kennedyeng.com/vw_por.htm#6CYL 
Reminds me of the Chevy small block into Jeep kits, cool.








Thanks guys.


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (i81b4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *i81b4u* »_
Excellent! I think the VR6 would be a good match for the q, and seeing how Audi is using it (descendant of) in the TT, well....legit? (hehe)


By "descendant of", were you referring to the AWD or the VR6...because the TT really uses the Haldex/4Motion AWD system, descendant of the syncro system originally found in A2 VWs. Nothing to do with quattro other than the badge.
I would LOVE to see a VR in any quattro. I think you might want to look into a custom oil pan to set the motor at a reasonable level in the car. Just a thought. Good luck!


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## Bboble (Mar 19, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (i81b4u)*

Yes, lets here more about this QSW Bi-turbo...
Anylinks/more info?

TIA


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## MtnSurferX (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (i81b4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *i81b4u* »_ and seeing how Audi is using it (descendant of) in the TT, well....legit? (hehe)

the tt uses the vr transverse mounted, with a haldex quattro system (different from the 'torsen' system used in a4's, a6's, 80/90, 4k, etc. etc.
many consider the haldex system to be inferior, since i believe it is more of an electronically controlled awd system? (correct me anyone?)
-b


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (MtnSurferX)*

Yes.


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## MtnSurferX (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (Haiku Master)*

w00t, i knew all those teachers were wrong when they called me dumb!








-b


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (Bboble)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bboble* »_Yes, lets here more about this QSW Bi-turbo...
Anylinks/more info?

TIA

Here's a picture to start with. It seems there is only one turbo, but it isnt exactly a K04 in there


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (PerL)*

Another picture, a slightly different air filter setup this time


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (PerL)*

Ah, even more pictures of the QSW (or Passat Variant Syncro, as it's called here in Europe) and also some info, I found the link for the company who made it as well







(see the first pic)
There's a lot of custom work here!


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## PerL (Jan 9, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (PerL)*

Another thing, I found that this car has done the 1/4 in 11.27 @ 205 km/h


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (PerL)*

Holy isht Batman!!







That is awesome!!!


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (MFZERO)*

goddamn.....that gives me naught thoughts about what to do with MY 1986 qsw.....same color as theirs and everything.....*Spoot* no where'd I leave my welder....


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## highme (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (MFZERO)*

<--- Oh Face


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (PerL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerL* »_Another thing, I found that this car has done the 1/4 in 11.27 @ 205 km/h









Very cool, but that's about the same as you'd get with a 20VT that is built up a bit (RS2 spec)....and it seems to me that it might be cheaper and easier to do a well built 20VT...


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_
Very cool, but that's about the same as you'd get with a 20VT that is built up a bit (RS2 spec)....and it seems to me that it might be cheaper and easier to do a well built 20VT...









u serious? If you can find one maybe.... I HIGHLY doubt you can get RS2 bits any cheaper than VR turbo bits anymore.... last time I saw an RS2 turbo for sale it was like $750 and needed a rebuild....
but yeah....there's something to be said for that 5 cylinder sound.... shoot...with EFI and a tubular manifold you could prolly get a 10V 5cylinder to run that....with race gas.....


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (rcr_x)*

Making an ADU engine out of an AAN isn't THAT expensive. An AAN engine can be bought for around $750 including harness & ECU (maybe less). That plus $2847.98 for all new "D" Suffix Turbo, Exhaust Manifold, and an Upgraded Gasket Kit and you will be making a reliable 320bhp to 350bhp. The AAN shares the same intake camshaft as the ADU so there is no need to change the intake camshaft with the AAN engine. So for roughly $3,600 you can have that RS2 spec engine and won't have to do lots of custom work to get it all installed...


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (duandcc)*

if Imma drop $3600 on an engine for my $1000 car.....I'd prolly just drop a 302 ford into it or something... the kennedy engineering adapter plate setup is only ~$500 and I have a friend that can build me motor mounts and custom headers.... Shoot...I could prolly do a 450-500hp 302 for that price... saw a complete rebuilt rollerized one for $1000 the other day...
of course....that's if we're ONLY looking at *HP/$$* 


_Modified by rcr_x at 10:23 AM 10-24-2003_


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## Phatbastard (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (rcr_x)*

Is the Quattro 5 spd bell housing the same as the VW 4 speed unit?? Cuz that's what Kennedy does - anything to the VW Trans axle. Says nothing about Audi







Because, if it was the same you could put some really sicko Porche ponies under the hood


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (rcr_x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rcr_x* »_if Imma drop $3600 on an engine for my $1000 car.....I'd prolly just drop a 302 ford into it or something... the kennedy engineering adapter plate setup is only ~$500 and I have a friend that can build me motor mounts and custom headers.... Shoot...I could prolly do a 450-500hp 302 for that price... saw a complete rebuilt rollerized one for $1000 the other day...
of course....that's if we're ONLY looking at *HP/$$* 
_Modified by rcr_x at 10:23 AM 10-24-2003_
 







A DORF V8 in an Audi?







Thanks sickening. A VR6 is bad enough...


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_ 







A DORF V8 in an Audi?







Thanks sickening. A VR6 is bad enough...

dude, I'm all about bastard cars that haul ass ok? I really don't care WHAT kinda motor is in it... it's not like it's a rare, expensive car or something! You don't think a 400hp 302 in a ~2800lbs 84 4kq would be a badass ride?? and DON'T tell me it wouldn't sound good!


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (duandcc)*

Dave: I have a couple questions for you. 
First, where do you find an AAN motor for $750?







If 20vt motors were going this cheap, there would be way more 20vt swapped cars out there. 
Second, when does an RS2 run a low 11 sec 1/4 mile?








It is going to take a lot more than "RS2-spec" parts to get a quattro into the 11s. Several Qlisters are running low 13s with 350 WHEEL HP and the numbers you are quoting are at the crank. I think that these sort of results/budget are unreasonable.


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## i81b4u (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (i81b4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *i81b4u* »_I think the VR6 would be a good match for the q, and seeing how Audi is using it (descendant of) in the TT, well....legit? (hehe)


I was of course refering to the TT's use of the 3.2l VR6....a descendant of the 2.8l 12v in my GTI, sorry for any confusion.









I am just looking ahead, as soon there will be a complete VR engine swap sitting on the driveway floor. As I suspected, the fine folks here have been a great help, the VR6t QSW is just what I needed to see! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I love the external wastegate on that manifold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## A2DubNut (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (rcr_x)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rcr_x* »_
dude, I'm all about bastard cars that haul ass ok? I really don't care WHAT kinda motor is in it... it's not like it's a rare, expensive car or something! You don't think a 400hp 302 in a ~2800lbs 84 4kq would be a badass ride?? and DON'T tell me it wouldn't sound good!









a 400 hp 302 in a ~2800 lb 84 4kq would be about a 4,500 lb car. the good ol' american engineering theory goes as follows..."I don't care how much the m'r f'r weighs....just gimme bigger hp #s !" and horses will only get you so far on the strip.... torque that bad boy up until she's turnin' quicker 1/8th times and then see what your 1/4 mile time looks like.


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## MtnSurferX (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (Haiku Master)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Haiku Master* »_Dave: I have a couple questions for you. 
First, where do you find an AAN motor for $750?







If 20vt motors were going this cheap, there would be way more 20vt swapped cars out there. 


show me a $750 running, complete as you say, AAN motor and ill buy one today.
-b


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (MtnSurferX)*

LOL


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (MtnSurferX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MtnSurferX* »_
show me a $750 running, complete as you say, AAN motor and ill buy one today.
-b

Ha ha, you know that you don't even have $7.50 left after buying the custom r-38's!


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## MtnSurferX (Feb 6, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (yumyjagermiester)*


_Quote, originally posted by *yumyjagermiester* »_
Ha ha, you know that you don't even have $7.50 left after buying the custom r-38's!









****, *****....for a 20vt ill whip out tha plastic
-b


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## yumyjagermiester (Sep 20, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (MtnSurferX)*

ROFL http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (A2DubNut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A2DubNut* »_
a 400 hp 302 in a ~2800 lb 84 4kq would be about a 4,500 lb car. the good ol' american engineering theory goes as follows..."I don't care how much the m'r f'r weighs....just gimme bigger hp #s !" and horses will only get you so far on the strip.... torque that bad boy up until she's turnin' quicker 1/8th times and then see what your 1/4 mile time looks like.

you have no idea what you're talking about. A fully dressed 302 with aluminum heads and intake weighs maybe 150lbs more than a NA 5cylinder. by the time you ad a turbo, manifold, intercooler, wastegate, etc.... the weight advantage is only about 100 lbs. That can be cancelled out very easily with different sprting rates and swaybar adjustments. You've obviously never heard about the LT1Q that was built by an audifans list member some years ago...
check this out. http://www.angelfire.com/ar/dw42/engfyi.htm 
according to that page a 302 weighs 450lbs
and a non-turbo audi 5 cylinder weighs 364lbs
You think that's gonna destroy the handling??? yeah....









if you wanna talk out your ass and generalize go check out http://www.clubsi.com/ 




_Modified by rcr_x at 9:00 PM 10-24-2003_


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## bubuski (Jun 14, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (PerL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PerL* »_Ah, even more pictures of the QSW (or Passat Variant Syncro, as it's called here in Europe) and also some info, I found the link for the company who made it as well







(see the first pic)
There's a lot of custom work here!










very nice sleeper


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## A2DubNut (Feb 1, 2002)

rcr-x....didn't mean to come off as a d**k but I did make my point...the ford 302 is a fair amount heavier, and not as torqey as the 5 cyl. once you start adding on to the 302 from stock it gets heavier. The 4,500 lb car reference was an exxageration, (see: dramatic effect, webster's new world dictionary)
oh and BTW...if you EVER think of referring me to club Si again, we're gonna have words....







j/k


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## Haiku Master (May 29, 2003)

*Re: (A2DubNut)*

Since when is a 5.0L Ford v8 not as torquey as a 5-cyl? A quick search on yahoo lended the following data for an 85 Mustang 5.0L...210hp @ 4400rpm, 270 ft-lbs @ 3200 rpm, bone stock.
Some people might argue that 150 lbs is a negligable weight gain....but then, when I posted that the A/C delete on a CQ was only 41 lbs and I suggested that was not a significant loss....people jumped all over me.


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## rcr_x (Apr 21, 1999)

*Re: (A2DubNut)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A2DubNut* »_rcr-x....didn't mean to come off as a d**k but I did make my point...the ford 302 is a fair amount heavier, and not as torqey as the 5 cyl. once you start adding on to the 302 from stock it gets heavier. 

huh??? once you start adding onto it IT GETS LIGHTER if anything!!! That 450lb weight was for a bone stock IRON HEAD, IRON INTAKE carb'd 302!!! swapping alum. heads and intake knocks off like 75 lbs not to mention adding about 50hp! if you doubt me go check out the latest issue of GRASSROOTS MOTORSPORTS. They have a big feature on their project 5.0 mustang. With SIMPLE bolt-ons they took the engine from 201hp, 254 ft/lbs AT THE WHEELS to 253hp, 291ft/lbs. That DOES NOT include swapping to newer alum. heads. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for bastard hotrod audis!!! why the hell should it matter as long as its FAST!
BTW....that QSW is the exact same color as mine!!! I like those rims.... Schmidts? 


_Modified by rcr_x at 1:33 AM 10-26-2003_


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (Haiku Master)*

I guess I was wrong, I though Force5 sold 20VTs for $750-1000. Sorry. Either way, I would never consider putting an american V8 into an Audi. Heck, even if it were a bolt in mod, I wouldn't consider it. I wouldn't even take it if it were FREE. The idea just breaks my heart...







But each to their own...


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## Crispyfritter (Nov 21, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (duandcc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *duandcc* »_I guess I was wrong, I though Force5 sold 20VTs for $750-1000. Sorry. Either way, I would never consider putting an american V8 into an Audi. Heck, even if it were a bolt in mod, I wouldn't consider it. I wouldn't even take it if it were FREE. The idea just breaks my heart...







But each to their own...

Eh, I don't feel that way at all but my buddy is Audi power or nothing. He wouldn't blink at throwing in a 3.6 litre Audi V8, but mention an SBC or 302 and he goes into convulsions.
And, as far as RS2 parts go, I wouldn't bother with an RS2 turbo. We've just had a custom one done completely for like $900 and it's supposed to be efficient up to 29 lbs. of boost. Now, the intake manifold is a good purchase as is the exhaust. 
Just wait until we get finished with my 91 Avant. We should be looking at 350 -400 whp in a daily driver, for a total investment of less than $7000 - including the price of the car.
Chris


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## StormChaser (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (200HP4dr)*

I have NO problem with American V8s in Ameerican cars. I have had a 1978 Impala WAGON & a 1985 Impala 9c1. Both had 350s and were some of the best cars I've ever owned. But I just wouldn't put an American engine in a German car. I mean, how many bowtie guys would put a 302 or 351 in thei Camero or how many bow tie guys would put a 350 in the Mustang...say idea IMHO...


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## Aw614 (May 9, 2001)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (duandcc)*

The rims look like Ronal Turbos without the writing on them


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## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

*Re: VR6 4000CS quattro "Frankenstein"...... (Aw614)*

thats what i was thinking








i wonder how much those are going for nowadays??


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