# Towing Experience.....WOW....



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

Well the gamble payed off .......While having some doubt as to the towing capacity I still went ahead and purchased a new 26.2 ft Terry 250RKS Travel Trailer. The RV dealership did not beleive the Touareg would pull it. But after some hitch modifications and a very confusing brake controller situation I was off. Cruising from San Diego up over the Laguna Mountains at about 5000ft at I think 6% grade. How did it do? Let's just say I had to watch my speed as I was passing tough guys in their Ford F350 Super Duty pick-ups pulling trailers of the same size. I counted at least three times where jaws literally dropped. 
FYI: A load distribution hitch & brake controller area a must. (beware the 4pin connector for the brake controller is kind of hidden behind the knee bar on the driver side left of the streering column). It is wrapped in gray foam which makes it hard to find. It took VW on the phone with the RV tech about an hour to locate the connector. 

Here's some pics.


----------



## trollhole (Nov 6, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

Great post. That's awesome.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

A couple of minutes searching this forum would have cut your installation time by an hour:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1065133 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1031559 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1128488


----------



## Silver Fox (Feb 10, 2004)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

Is your hitch the factory VW hitch?
The part the attaches to your TREG mounted hitch looks very interesting. Can you explain a abit about the the hitch and the weight ditribution thing? Thanks


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (spockcat)*

perhaps.....but it was really kind of mis communication from the dealer upon the hitch installation as the individual who sold me the factory hitch falsly informed me that it is wired to control the trailer brakes. It was not until we were standing the parking lot at the RV dealership did we discover otherwise. It all worked out in the end so I can't complain too much. 
I have found searches very helpful on past issues. I guess I dropped the ball on this one. I can only hope the Vortex gods will forgive me.


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (Silver Fox)*

The Treg mounted hitch is VW factory. Everything else is made by Reese. basicall you set this hitch up by eyeball in the vehicle and trailer with the ball attached to the trailer but with jack not cranked up all the way. Adjust the jack to where the vehicle and trailer are level. At this point you attach the swing arms on each side and lock them in place based on the level you set. After that, crank up the jack all the way and the vehicle and trailer remain level. Pretty cool.


----------



## randemar (Dec 8, 2003)

bravo! great news!


----------



## randemar (Dec 8, 2003)

why did you choose the terry over the the terry dakota ultralite?


----------



## grkman1 (Dec 22, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

I too pull a travel trailer with my V8Touareg. It only has a 350 tongue weight...I have a weight distribution hitch when I used to tow it with my Grand Cherokee, but have not used it on the Treg. My Treg has the air suspension and it levels the truck. My question to you: do you have the air suspension?..... If you do, do you find when the suspension lowers during travel, does it affect the weight distribution hitch.
I have heard that a WD hitch should NOT be used with the Treg hitch. I also just received the accesory catalog and it to states this.
I absolutely love towing with my Treg...I too do not know that it is behind me, and true have to look at the spedo to check my speed
Thanks and good luck with your towing


----------



## MrTsDad (Nov 19, 2003)

What kind of convertor are you guys using inbetween the usual US one (4 male - 1 female) and the Touareg? I keep on running into problems with my uHaul convertor being brake light works sometimes or never! Or any other tips to get this working....thanks!


----------



## Kenneth L (Feb 20, 2004)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

Have you had problems with the yellow brake and running light warning indicator in the MFI coming on when you connect the trailers 7-pin connector to the VW hitch? If not, how did you solve it? Despite this my trailer running, brake and directional lights work fine. There is no hot wire to the VW connector, so the inside lights do not work yet.


----------



## randemar (Dec 8, 2003)

btt


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: (randemar)*

no particular reason. Just liked the layout and interior color choice. We got a Fiberglass sided version (most are alumnium) called the Extreme Edition. Has extra insulation on the pipes as well as heated water tank. Good for colder climates. Not much use in the desert right now but I do anticipate taking it to mountains in the fall and winter.


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (grkman1)*

I received the same catalog after this past weekend when I purchased the trailer. The hitch was stated as a must to me by many different parties. I contacted my VW dealership about the catalog fine print. As usual, they know nothing. They once again have put a call into VW to find out the real details are. The curious thing is that the VW hitch has a sticker right on it that indicates Tow Weight and Weight Distribution Weight (they are the same). Why they would put that on there if they don't want that used makes no sense? The trailer dealership said that if a hitch was design to not be used with weight distribution then it would be clearly stamped on the hitch. 
I can't wait to here what VW says. This weekend I may take the trailer for a spin with out weight distribution and see how it rides.


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

I doubt that we will ever hear officially from VWA regarding towing. They were supposed to send letter to all Touareg owners after the towing debacle on "Shame on You". 
I thought it was interesting that the accessory catalog had picture of T-reg towing Airstream!!


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (donaldvanw)*

After waiting for 2 days on my dealership to get me the information I gave up and called VWOA. After 30 minutes I finally got hold of someone who could give me an answer. According to them the weight distribution hitch is "not reccomended" because is it causes undue stress on the suspension (air or steel spring). Shortly after that conversation the dealer called to tell me they had the answer. The VW hitch supposedly works with the car frame to distribute the weight. The dealer did not mention the suspension. 
What is the real story?
Is this a case of the blind leading the blind?






















I will try the trailer without weight distribution this weekend.


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

I have difficulty imagining how evenly distributing the weight along the length of the vehicle could damage the suspension. If anything, it would seem that weight unevenly distributed would more likely cause damage to the rear suspension--to say nothing of causing the front end to raise and become unstable.
From the get go this has been VWA's position. I don't even believe they full understand what weight distribution/sway attachments do because they are not used much outside of U.S. I think each of us has to make our own decision based on the length, weight, tongue weight and shape of what we are towing.


----------



## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (donaldvanw)*

Frankly, I agree with donaldvanw. I intend to tow with weight distribution (#4000 dry - 22' Airstream). The factory receiver makes mention of the max tongue weight with WD and without. There's much more to WD than just, err, well, weight distribution. 
I don't see the risk. I think safety overrides VWOA's vacillating opinion on this topic.
X


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (Xrayo)*

Xrayo, help me out here.....I'm new to towing.
Beyong actual weight distribution, what are the other safety related features to using a WD hitch?
I notice the VW receiver has with and without WD weight and they are the same.....


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdtreg* »_I notice the VW receiver has with and without WD weight and they are the same.....

Not a towing expert here but I would think that if the hitch has the same rating with or without WD, then VW (or their supplier Westfalia) is trying to tell you that a WD hitch isn't going to do anything for you - except add what looks like about 50 lbs to your hitch and about 8 more inches to your hitch length which will increase the leverage on the back of your car. Think what more leverage means to a seesaw.


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (spockcat)*

The extra hitch length seemed to make sense considering how close to the back of the car the rear axle is. Larger tow vehicles have a little more room from the axle to hitch.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

But the real heavyweights, 5th wheel trailers, put the weight over the axle, not hang it out further and further from the rear axle. The further away from the rear axle you hang the weight, the more the front end will lift and the more you will put on the rear axle and frame.


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (spockcat)*

If it is really that simple then it makes sense to not use the WD hitch. I will just have to try without it and see how it drives.


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

Something else to consider. When towing trailer should be level. With aftermarket hitch arms this can be accomplished by changing the arm height using the different holes. The final setting is dependent on the height of the vehicle hitch and the trailer tongue when the trailer is level. The VW factory arm is not height adjustable. Even with air suspension which I believe when in adjustable mode only changes according to speed this will not maintain levelness.


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdtreg* »_Xrayo, help me out here.....I'm new to towing.
Beyong actual weight distribution, what are the other safety related features to using a WD hitch?
I notice the VW receiver has with and without WD weight and they are the same.....

Another conventional towing apparatus is an anti-sway attachment. Some hitches- like equalizer and I believe the new Reese double trunion models- have these incorporated into the weight distribution system. There are also sway devices that are seperately attached. Their purpose is to keep the trailer from swaying when it is windy or when you pass or are passed by a tractor trailer.


----------



## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (donaldvanw)*

Well, this topic gets discussed ad nauseum on the Airstream forums. WD hitches make the TV (tow vehicle) and TT (travel trailer) act as one. Most travel trailer owners will not tow without WD simply because of the performance difference. It is MUCH safer towing with WD.
Without getting too far into physics, the WD setup uses a solid point on the hitch as a fulcrum, with the trailer ball as the pivot point. It actually pulls up on the drawbars, forcing the front end of the TV down in the process. 
According to Garth Cane, the actual weight on the hitch properly using WD is zero...
See this picture for more details:











_Modified by Xrayo at 12:10 PM 4-16-2004_


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (Xrayo)*

Ther latest from VW & the dealerships is DO NOT USE WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION because it can cause undue stress on the uni-body construction of the Touareg.


----------



## Tevi (Jan 1, 2004)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

I doubt the F350 were trying to keep up with you.I paid 35k for my fully loaded dually and got a price of 65k for my Treg.Now if I dumped another 30k into my daully you wouldn't be able to touch me towing or not


----------



## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

SDTreg,
Don't listen to them. You can adjust how much WD you use. 
X


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (Xrayo)*

X, toured the Airstream site today-- you're right alot of good info. What kind of WD are you planning to use when you get your Airstream. I previously towed using Draw-Tite(one and the same with Reese) and friction sway with a Durango-- it was ok. Am thinking of going to Equalizer with the T-Reg.


----------



## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

donald,
Andy Thompson of Can-Am RV recommended that I use the EAZ-Lift #1000 WD hitch for my 22' CCD (~#600 tongue weight). The dealer who sold me the trailer said exactly the same thing. Andy is the guy who setup the tests of the Treg towing a 30' Airstream. The guy knows his stuff. I am adding friction sway control.
But, I think any of them will do fine. If you have the extra cash, the Hensley Arrow is probably the best but they run about $3k... I also hear that folks like the Reese Dual-Cam.
X


----------



## randemar (Dec 8, 2003)

the hensley arrow is the most sophisticated, but adds about 200 lbs.
interesting thread at http://www.rv.com
http://www.rv.net/forum/index....5.cfm


----------



## GEB (Feb 17, 2004)

I'm scared to ask what your MPG was towing that beast!
GEB.


----------



## donaldvanw (May 5, 2003)

*Re: (Xrayo)*

X,
How about brake controller. I was set to use the Tekonsha Prodigy, but have heard that their electronics may have an allergic reaction to all the electronics on the T-reg. Have done much research and have concluded that I am going with Jordan. The controller has an attachment to the brake pedal so that it activates at the same time that you depress your brake--all others have a delay. It also automatically selects the appropriate brake pressure-similiar to Prodigy-so you don't have to set it.
With all due respect to your dealers- I looked at the Eaz-Lift web-site and it looks much like a Reese or Draw-Tite. Ask them about Equal-i-zer. I am told that their system which does not use chains- but the shanks are attached directly to an adjustable bracket on the tongue provide for more rigid weight distribution. Also their sway controls are built into the the attachments to the trailer tongue and the hitch arm. This provides for much more rigidity. The Eaz-Lift sway system looks much like the Reese friction attachment. I towed for 4 years with such Reese friction sway and can say it was less than satisfactory. Also, with Reese sway you have to detach before you back-up--so check that out on the Eaz-Lift to see if that is the same. I have also been told by a number of dealers that the Hensley is only really effective for towing heavy trailers/tongues--e.g. 7-8,000 lbs and up. For lighter trailers like ours in the 3-4000lb range they have too much play.
I am not attempting to second guess your selection, but trying to give you another perspective to explore before you make your final decision. Perhaps at the end of the day, as you say, there are a number of viable alternatives and maybe we are picking flies off the back of an elephant.
Donald


----------



## randemar (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: (Xrayo)*

Xrayo,
i'd like your opinion on what you think would be the maximum specs for hitch weight, dry weight and gross vehicle weight that could be handled comfortably by a v8 touareg with air susp. i plan on using a hensley arrow for weight distribution and sway contol which will add 200 lbs. to the hitch weight. i assume that weight distribution does not make the hitch weight totally irrelevant. i've been trying to focus on trailers with a max dry weight of 6,000 lbs., 26 to 28 ft. in length, and 600 lb. hitch weight . i'm confused as to how much hitch weight with wd is acceptable. it could be the difference between having a slide or no slide. thx.


----------



## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

*Re: (randemar)*

Randemar,
I could have any hitch. I spoke to Andy Thomson about this topic and he told me, for my 22' CCD, to not waste the money on the Hensley even though it is a great hitch. I told him I planned on the Equalizer and he urged me to go with the EAZ-Lift versus it and the Reese. Why? I frankly do not know. At that point in time I was more concerned with doing something that I was assured would work great. I did not buy it from him so there was no motive on his part to steer me one way or another. I took his advice and bought the EAZ-Lift for no other reason. If it does not work as planned, I will buy another, even the Hensley, if need be.
Insofar as sway control, I doubt it is necessary but I wanted to have it on-hand should I need to feel more comfortable. Bear in mind that I am always being nagged by the memory of the bozo who got his Treg bought back by VW because he claimed it would not tow a 22' CCD... Mind you, my trailer arrives next weekend and I have not yet towed with my Treg. There are many people on this and the Airstream Forum waiting to see what my experience is. It's showtime. 
As far as your question, I don't want to advise you to overload your Treg... But, frankly, I think the specifications are entirely conservative on the tongue weight side of things especially using WD. I would not add more trailer weight. I have a buddy who has a 25' Airstream CCD ordered and fully intends to tow it with his V8. The 25' comes in at #5270 dry with a #750 tongue weight. He's doing a Hensley Arrow adding another #100 or so. He's got much more invested in this experiment than I do! But, we're all confident. I am going to drive 400 miles to pick-up my trailer. Confident? Nope, cocky! Remember that you will add a lot of weight to your trailer before you leave on your trip. 
There are those who think trailer length and tow vehicle wheelbase are critical elements in an equation that floats around the RV circles. I really don't know what I would do in your situation. I certainly would keep lengths as short as possible. I did not want to go over the 22' I'm committed to... Better to be safe than sorry, IMHO. If you can do the job at 26' and #5,000, better yet.
Best of luck to you all!
X


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (Tevi)*

I only paid $41,250.00 for my Reg


----------



## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

What's your point?


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (sdtreg)*

sd,
Did you try towing without the WD hitch as you said you would? Curious to know if you could tell much difference.


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Towing Experience.....WOW.... (spockcat)*

No, I did not have a chance. I had a last minute business trip to China to prepare for. Leaving today. I won't have a chance to give it a try until next week. I will definitly post the results when I do.


----------



## sdtreg (Dec 10, 2003)

_Quote, originally posted by *Tevi* »_I doubt the F350 were trying to keep up with you.I paid 35k for my fully loaded dually and got a price of 65k for my Treg.Now if I dumped another 30k into my daully you wouldn't be able to touch me towing or not


sorry Xrayo....I was trying to understand what was meant by this quote.


----------



## Xrayo (Feb 25, 2004)

I understand.



_Modified by Xrayo at 6:51 PM 4-19-2004_


----------

