# ABA Coil and MS and a few other questions



## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

I have search and cannot find the answer I'm looking for. I'm currently working on a MKIII 2.0 16vt.
1) What wire do I use or how do I hook up the wires for the Coil. based on this Diagram.








On the Ignition Module Where do I run Pin1 and Pin4? Should I Ground Pin1 and run Pin4 to the Pos terminal behind the panel on the coil then clip the middle wire on the stock harness?
the stock pin out for the coil harness is 
Pin1 = Ground
Pin2 = Trigger / ECU
Pin3 = Power on IGN
Like So?








Will doing it like this still send a signal to the tach gauge?
2) What sensor do I use for the coolant to get a signal to the gauge cluster?
Thanks
Martelle
_Modified by Oo0martelle0oO at 7:42 AM 8-1-2008_


_Modified by Oo0martelle0oO at 7:44 AM 8-1-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: ABA Coil and MS and a few other questions (Oo0martelle0oO)*

With a 3 pin ABA coil you don't need the 7 pin module. Just hook up your coil trigger wire from MS to the ABA's center pin. Hook up switched power and ground appropriately. Set dwell control on and keep running dwell at 3.6ms, cranking at 5.5ms and min at .1ms. 
Coolant gauge in the dash is done by the stock temp sensor, and if you didn't remove it, it will still work.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: ABA Coil and MS and a few other questions (need_a_VR6)*

So Nix the IGN module and use Pin31 from MS to Pin 2 of the stock harness?


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

Correct, assuming your hall sensor power is coming from the MS unit like the diagram shows, some people power it off of the 7-pin ignition module.
Where does your stock tach signal wire go? If it goes to the coil, keep it in the same spot, and it should work


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

Right now Everything is wired like that diagram with a few changes to the fuel pump setup. So right now if the tach signal comes from the Pin1 on the stock coil harness then it is still hooked up.
So Clip Pin2 on the stock harness and run Pin31 from MS to that and I should be all set to go.


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

you mean your tach signal is hooked up to pin 1 of the igntion module?
Where is it hooked up stock? pin 2 of the coil module?
Here's a diagram of what should work, assuming your pinout of the stock coil is correct



_Modified by xr4tic at 6:49 PM 8-1-2008_


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

No the Coil harness is not hooked up at all to MS. But that Diagram will help better than the other one I have. Awesome. This [email protected]!h will run tonight.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Be advised, unless you have a Patatron ecu, or have modded yours to be like his internally that diagram won't work. He swaps the hall input pin around from what's 'normal.'


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Well Thats not good news. I dont have one of his ECU. So now I'm up a Creek


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

Where did you get the ECU? Is it V2.2 or V3.0?


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

Bought it from Ebay about 3 years ago. It's MSI v3.0
Can I just run Pin4 off the Ign module to Pin2 on the coil harness?


_Modified by Oo0martelle0oO at 2:29 PM 8-1-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Was it modded in any particular way or is it 'stock?'
For VW hall there are mods, as well as a simple one to add the spark output.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Its Stock but I did do this mod to the board
http://www.vintagewatercooleds...n.htm


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

you will need to open it up and verify the setup.
The "old" way of setting a MS v3.0 unit up for VWs is by following this post:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2545204
With those mods, your coil signal will be on pin 36, hall input on pin 25, and hall power on pin 15
The newer/better way is to follow the msextra manual.
http://www.msextra.com/manuals...#hall
I think it's the Low to High method, pin 24 is your hall input, and you can splice into the TPS power for your hall power, or use a spare output.
Then follow this for the coil mods:
http://www.msextra.com/manuals...ecoil
Pin 36 is your coil output.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

Ok I will have to read over this and see where I stand. What a headache I have a feeling I will have to redo all the wiring on this thing. ugggh


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

looks like the link you followed is the high to low method, which will most likely fire, but timing will probably be off.
After you make the internal mods, the only external wiring you'll really need to move around are the coil output, hall input, and hall power


_Modified by xr4tic at 3:35 PM 8-1-2008_


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

Ok Well if I'm looking at this right my Hall input should be correct on Pin24 and the Hall power is coming from Pin25 or should those be swapped? 
Then Coil Output is Pin31 correct. I'm new to this


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Hall pin 24 is right, hall power should be on pin 26 (tps vref). 
I've never gotten that setup to work without being in next cyl mode with a strange offset angle. 
I use the 5v low-high method (XG1-2 cut, XG1 to TSEL, Optoout through a 1k to 5v).


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

coil output should be pin36 on a V3.0 board, you will need to follow the directions on the msextra link I posted above, remove R57, put a thick jumper over R43, run a 330ohm resistor between IGBTIN and the top of R26, jumper IGBTOUT and IGN
*edit* I modified the diagram if you follow the MSExtra Manual methods


_Modified by xr4tic at 6:50 PM 8-1-2008_


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

Well After Working on the Car Friday night. I have nothing Car turns over no Fuel or spark.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Do you get rpm in Megatune?


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

The ECU isn't getting Power. I need to tie it stright to the battery and see if I get power that way.


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

Where do you have it hooked up now? You try using the old ECUs power line, or just grab a source somewhere else? You need to make sure it has power during cranking.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

right now its pulling power from the fuel relay spot in the fuse box. No I'm not getting RPM. Right now I'm trying to get it to start using stock spark and ms fuel. I don't think I'm getting spark. The car turns over but wont start. 
I've loaded a file that pozer gave me.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Did you do any of the mods posted above?


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Oo0martelle0oO* »_Its Stock but I did do this mod to the board
http://www.vintagewatercooleds...n.htm


Just this mod.


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

If you're not going to listen to us, why bother asking for help?
As for your power location, is it power from the fuel relay, or power to the fuel relay?
Power from the fuel relay will only happen if the ECU turns it on, and if your ECU isn't getting power, then it can't turn it on.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

I'm listen and you asked if I had any mods above. No I Don't have the ones you posted. The only mod I have done is the one I posted.
It is power to the fuel relay, the ECU is now getting power. I need to mod the ECU for the links you posted above.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

I've never gotten any of the ignition mods that use XG1-XG2 jumpered to work for me. I always cut that and wire accordingly. 
You can do a quick check of the input by removing the hall center pin and tapping repeatedly to ground, +5 or +12v. One of those should give you some sort of signal (erratic rpm).


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Ok I will keep that in mind. I'm modding the board tonight.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Ok so here is the deal now. I modded the board for both of those options (Hall Sending unit and Single coil direct drive)
I'm not getting at RPM reading from the car or from the stimulator board. The car will turn over but not start. I tried tapping the middle wire to ground on the hall sensor harness.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Do I need to do this mod as well with the Wiring above?
"3. Next you will have to cut the jumper between XG1 and XG2 if there is already one installed. After that you will need to run a jumper wire from XG1 and IAC-1A. This is the input for the tach signal from the dizzy."


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Yes, you need that to get the hall input on pin25 to match the diagram above.


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

To follow the pinout I have above, you need to do this:








This brings the hall input on pin 24. If you're powering the Hall off of the TPS 5V, then follow the 5V section in the Notes
Then do:








That brings the coil output on pin 36.
Double and triple check your work, it's easy to mess up, I know I've done it before.


_Modified by xr4tic at 12:48 AM 8-12-2008_


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

I followed these direction step by step for 5v and triple check and had someone else triple check. 

_Quote, originally posted by *xr4tic* »_To follow the pinout I have above, you need to do this:








This brings the hall input on pin 24. If you're powering the Hall off of the TPS 5V, then follow the 5V section in the Notes
Then do:








That brings the coil output on pin 36.
Double and triple check your work, it's easy to mess up, I know I've done it before.

_Modified by xr4tic at 12:48 AM 8-12-2008_


Pin 25 isnt being used in this diagram.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Oo0martelle0oO* »_I followed these direction step by step for 5v and triple check and had someone else triple check. 

Pin 25 isnt being used in this diagram. 

That mod/diagram puts spark output on Pin36, as long as your mods match your wiring you can use any pin for it.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Ok Then Everything Should be good with my mods and wiring. 
Back to the drawing board


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

To make this a bit easier here are photos of my board.
http://www.ohiovw.com/cars/gal...1.JPG
http://www.ohiovw.com/cars/gal...2.JPG
http://www.ohiovw.com/cars/gal...3.JPG


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

For the spark output I use a 1k from the top LED post to the right side of the resistor below (R24 maybe) and then wire from the LED top post to the output pin. 








But using 1k.
If you're using 330ohm from R26 to the output it could work but I've never tested it.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_For the spark output I use a 1k from the top LED post to the right side of the resistor below (R24 maybe) and then wire from the LED top post to the output pin. 








But using 1k.
If you're using 330ohm from R26 to the output it could work but I've never tested it.

I'm using the 330ohm on R26. Tonight I'm gonna cut the jumper between XG1 and XG2 and see what happens.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

You *need* to do that if you are going from optoin to 5v through a 1k. It wont' trigger otherwise.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

OK then that will happen tonight.
What about Optoin to tachselect does that jumper stay. (See third link to images)


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

No tachselect needs to go to XG1.


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

pins 25/27/29/31 are spare pins, they can be used for anything. If you follow the steps in the MSExtra Manual, then you won't need to hook them up.
I didn't notice the dotted lines before in the steps, they pretty much mean remove any jumpers that may have existed there.
The 330 ohm resistor is if you are driving a coil directly, if you're going through the igniter, it's probably best to use a 750 or 1K ohm resistor


_Modified by xr4tic at 1:09 PM 8-13-2008_


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

Well I completed the mods last night.
replaced the 330ohm with 1k
removed the jumpers from XG1-XG2
removed the jumpers from optoin and techselect
created a jumper from XG1 to techselect 
When I hook up the Stimulator to power the MSboard and open Megatune. I'm not getting an RPM reading. I haven't tried it on the car yet. 
Is it possible I have a bad board?


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

I never could get RPM reading to work with the stim, but everything else worked ok.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

In addition to that you have optoin jumpered to 5v through a 1k?
Pretty sure those mods should work on a normal stim.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

Yep optoin to 5v in pronto jumped thru a 1k. No reading


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Tap XG1 to XG2 with a jumper wire a few times, you should get something.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I tried that but I will try again when I get back on Sunday.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (Oo0martelle0oO)*

Ok I give up. I have tried everything


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

can you take some good hi-res shots of the board? we may be able to double check the work on it, maybe see something out of place.
If you're up for a road trip, I can take a look at it, probably about a 4hr drive though.


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## Oo0martelle0oO (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: (xr4tic)*

right now I'm sending it to Paul. I have given up on getting it to work. 4months of this is nerve racking.


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