# Retrofitting Keyless Start to a North American Phaeton [Photos re-hosted x3]



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

This post is a “how-to” guide that explains how to retrofit an engine start-stop button to North American Phaetons that are equipped with keyless entry (production code *4F6*). This was discussed a bit on an earlier thread, Keyless start, but there are some errors in that thread - notably the information about the screw part numbers and the airbag switch part number - so I figured it would be best to make a new post of this "how-to".

Elsewhere in the world, if a Phaeton or Touareg is equipped with keyless entry, it is also equipped with keyless start capability. VW’s imported to North America have the keyless start button deleted at the request of VW of A, most likely because of liability concerns. To a certain extent, this concern of VW of A is understandable – if the key fob is present in the cabin of the car (in a jacket pocket or purse, for example), all an enterprising 10 year old needs to do to start and drive away is simply put their foot on the brake pedal, then press the start button.

In principle, it is not difficult to retrofit the keyless start button. No software needs to be changed, all you do is buy the button, a new trim plate, a wiring harness, and connect it to the existing access / start control module (this is sometimes called the Kessy module, it is component J518, shown on Phaeton wiring diagram 14/4). Once it is connected, everything works as it should. The difficult and time consuming part of this job is removing the various bits of trim – most especially, the driver footwell carpet – to get access to the access / start control module. If you have previous experience removing trim components from VW products, and have a patient disposition, this can be a ‘do-it-yourself’ task. If you have no previous experience disassembling VW products, then best if you have the service technician at your dealership do the work for you. Whatever they will charge you in labour (my guess is about 4 hours for a skilled technician) will be less than the cost of replacing one broken or scratched trim component.

Before I get into the details, some thanks and credits are in order: To Spockcat from the Touareg forum, who was part of the group that pioneered this modification on the Touareg, and who gave me the encouragement to go ahead and try it on the Phaeton; to Blaine, the parts manager at my VW dealer, who did all the work to get me the parts I needed (everything you need can be ordered from your North American VW dealer), and to Mark; the Phaeton service technician at my dealership, who was always there to help me out when I got in over my head, and to re-install the shift lever cover for me. Terence (Pilgrim7777) very kindly supplied the scanned images of the UK Phaeton owners manual that explain how to use the start button.

Here’s a list of the parts you will need:

*1) 1 Trim piece - 3D1 857 747 CG 5W8*
This is not listed in the North American ETKA (VW Electronic Parts Catalogue), but it can be ordered from a North American VW dealer. It is the grey colour trim piece that surrounds the shift lever and contains the left and right rear view mirror control and the flashlight / cigarette lighter receptacle. 

There are three possible variants of this trim piece: The standard North American one, with two holes in it (mirror and 12 volt outlet), the basic European one, with three holes in it (additional hole for turning passenger airbag off), and the European one for cars with keyless entry, which has 4 holes in it (one for turning the airbag off, and one for the start button). It is NOT possible to get one that has a start button hole but not an airbag off hole.











*2) 1 start-stop-switch for vehicles with keyless entry - 3D0 959 839 C*
This is the start button itself. It is identified on Phaeton wiring diagrams as component E408.











*3) 5 screws – Part Number N 910 199 01*
These are special self-tapping screws that will hold the start button in place on the bottom of the trim piece. You will need 3 screws for the start button, and 2 for the airbag switch. Do not use any screw other than the exact part number specified, otherwise, you run the risk of breaking the boss that the screw fits into. These are the same screws that are used to hold the control panel for the heated seats, ESP, suspension settings, etc. control panel in the bottom of the same trim piece. Note that these are NOT the same screws used to hold the start button in place in a Touareg, although I think the start button itself is the same for both the Phaeton or the Touareg.

*Note added later:*  It is possible that the part number for these five screws is *N 907 750 01*. See illustration below:











*4) 1 lock cylinder - 107 857 113 JB*
This is the lock cylinder that operates the airbag on/off switch. It needs to be ordered from Germany, custom-manufactured to your VIN number, so that it matches your car key. However…. I decided halfway through the process that I really didn’t want to bother hooking up the switch for disabling the airbag. I still needed a lock cylinder, though, to fill the hole on the trim plate. What I could have (and should have) done was just asked the staff at the dealership if they had an old lock cylinder from a current model Golf or Jetta glovebox lying around. It’s the same part, and for cosmetic purposes, will do the job just as well. The custom-made cylinder from Germany that matches your key is expensive, a leftover cylinder that looks identical but doesn’t match your key will probably cost you a box of donuts.











*5) 1 key switch for deactivating airbag – 3D1 919 211 A*
Whether you intend to hook up the airbag switch or not, you still need this part to hold the lock cylinder in place... unless you cheat. This part number does not refer to the key cylinder, it refers to the electrical switch that the key cylinder sits in. It is NOT the same part number as the switch that serves the same function on a Touareg. You can get the job done without this switch if you are willing to glue the lock cylinder onto the lower face of the trim panel with cyanoacrylate glue. If you don’t intend to hook up the airbag deactivation function, that is a more than satisfactory (and inexpensive) workaround. That’s actually what I did… 

*6) 1 Phaeton start button wiring harness* - fabricated by Spockcat
You can either make your own wiring harness, using VW repair wires, or order a custom made harness from Spockcat. I ordered a harness from Spockcat, but it was delayed in the mail between the USA and Canada, so eventually I wound up making my own harness from VW repair wires. The following day, Spockcat’s harness arrived in my mailbox (Murphy’s law, right?). Personally, I recommend you order Spockcat’s harness, it is an absolutely first-rate piece of workmanship and is military spec in every way – it would not look out of place on the assembly floor in Dresden. You will still need some VW repair wires to put on the end of Spockcat’s harness, though, in order to have the correct pins to install into the T81K connector, which is the connector that fits into the access / start control module.

*7) 3 Volkswagen Repair Wires, part number 000 979 018 *
Repair wires are a neat little component that VW provides to dealerships in case an electrical connector is damaged and needs to be repaired. They are generic, about a foot long, and have a OEM electrical connecting pin at each end. They are available either with gold plated connectors (for low voltage applications, such as gauges) or normal connectors. For this project, you just need the normal ones. The first thing you do when you want to use a VW repair wire is cut it in half – now you have two 6 inch wires with an OEM connector on the end. You then splice the wire, with connector, onto the end of the wiring harness. 

The easiest way to get this done is to take the wiring harness to the parts department of your VW dealer. Not only will they have the correct repair wires, they will also have the special crimp tool and butt connectors needed to properly connect the repair wire to the harness. If there is any doubt about selecting the correct repair wire, the parts person can refer to the ETKA catalogue, which will list the exact size and specification of pin used on connector T81K, which is the access / start control connector.

The illustrated Touareg installation instructions at Spockcat’s website ( VW Touareg Keyless Start Installation Instructions) suggest that you can just crimp the existing unused pins in the Kessy connector around the wires on Spockcat’s harness. This may be true for the Touareg, but the Phaeton Kessy connector does not have blank pins in the 5 slots that you will be using – the slots are completely empty on the Phaeton T81K connector, hence, the need to get the repair wires from your dealership. Besides, once you see the amount of work needed to get access to the T81K connector, you won’t want to take any chances of having a wire come loose later on.

The repair wire needed for this job is the smallest one shown in the photo below.











*8) 4 Driver Seat retaining bolts, part number still need to get PN *
These bolts have a special coating on them, and can only be used (tightened) once. Even though the bolt looks perfectly good after you remove it, you still need to discard it and install a new one. Lord only knows why…

*Tools required: *

Torx screwdrivers – 10, 15, 20, 25 for various trim pieces, and a Torx 50 driver for the four bolts that hold the driver seat in place.
A deep 10 mm socket wrench
A reasonable assortment of standard shop tools, including needle nose pliers, both straight and offset.
A portable shop work light, preferably a fluorescent one. This is essential.
A large, good quality magnifying glass to read the connector pin numbers on the T81K connector.
Either a selection of good quality dental picks or automotive trim picks, or a Mercedes trim removal tool P/N 140 589 02 33 00. VW also makes a trim removal tool, VW tool P/N 3370, however, the Mercedes tool is easier to work with, and it is less expensive than the VW tool.


*Step by step instructions:*

1) Park the car in such a way that you can open the driver door fully. Ensure that the front wheels are exactly centered, and that the steering wheel is perfectly in the ‘straight ahead’ position. This will minimize work later on associated with re-adapting the steering wheel position sensor. Apply the parking brake firmly, then release pressure from the main brake pedal (allowing the car to be held in place by the parking brake), then, after you have done that, put the transmission selector in Neutral. You will be moving the transmission selector around later on, so you don’t want any pressure on the dog that engages to hold the car in position. Turn the engine off, but leave the ignition power on. Move the driver seat to the most forward and highest possible position. Turn the ignition power off. The key won’t come out, because the transmission is not in Park – don’t worry about that.

2) Remove the trim strips that cover the seat rails at the back of the driver seat. Remove the two bolts that secure the seat rail to the floor of the car. Set the bolts and trim strips out of the way in the right rear passenger footwell. 

*Seat Rail after Trim Strip has been removed*
_The trick to getting the trim strip off is to stuff a very small slotted screwdriver into the inboard (footwell) side of the trim strip, and pry it outwards and away from the retaining tangs that you can see in this picture. Stuff your screwdriver in about where the arrow is, from the same angle. Once you have slid the trim strip back about an inch and a half, it will be clear of the retaining tangs. There are no tangs on the outboard side. _











The photo below shows the technique for releasing the seat rail cover trim strip. At the same time, you have to lift the middle, rear strip of plastic free of a nut that it covers. The nut is not visible in the photo below, the view of it is blocked by the forward end of the screwdriver handle. Once the trim strip has been slid back about a quarter of an inch, this nut is no longer a concern.

*How to pry the trim strip free of the retaining bracket shown in the photo above*










*Removing the bolts that hold the seat in place*










3) Move the driver seat to the rearward and lowest position. Double check that the steering wheel remains exactly centered. Turn the ignition off - you still won't be able to get the key out, because the shift leave is (or should be) in Neutral. Remove the trim strips that cover the seat rails at the front of the car, using the same technique as you used for the rear seat rail trim strips. Loosen, but do not remove the two bolts that hold the driver’s seat in place at the front. Screw them out about a quarter of an inch.

4) Using the deep 10 mm socket wrench, disconnect the negative terminal of both batteries. This is essential to avoid having dozens of fault codes generated by the car as you remove and reconnect the various electrical connectors. NB that battery terminals on the Phaeton should NOT be greased.

* The storage bin that covers this battery just pulls straight out and off.*










5) Open the rear driver side passenger door. Tilt the entire driver seat forward a little bit (rotating it about the axis of the two loose bolts holding it in place at the front) and shove a towel under the rear end of seat rails, to protect the carpet of the car. Put a few more towels down in the left rear passenger footwell.

6) Remove the two loose bolts from the front of the driver seat rails. Go find a helper – the driver seat weighs over 200 pounds! Tilt the entire driver seat assembly backwards, and slide it back into the left rear passenger footwell. Pay attention that you do not stress the cable coming up from the floor into the bottom of the driver seat. You only need to move it back far enough to have access to the seam between the driver footwell carpet and the left rear passenger footwell carpet – this seam is about midway under the driver seat rails. The seat will probably remain wedged back in a tilted position, as you see in the photo below. Leave it that way.

*About how you want the seat to look once you have removed all 4 bolts and slid it back a bit.*
_NOTE: There is a pin sticking down from the bottom of the inboard seat rail, towards the rear (about under where your right elbow would be if you were sitting in the seat). You need to tilt the seat outboard a bit, to get that locating pin out of its hole, before you can slide the seat back. This will normally happen by itself when you stuff the towels under the aft ends of the seat rails, but if for some reason the seat won’t slide back, it’s the pin that’s still holding it in._











* Continued (at step 7) in next post *


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

* Continued (from step 6) from previous post *

7) Pop both ashtrays open, and remove the wood trim from the front by sliding the trim pieces towards the outboard side of the car. Push the ashtrays back into the closed position.

*Ashtrays with front wood trim strips removed.*










8) Remove the wood trim surround from the Front Information Display Control Head Control Module J523 (the radio), using the Mercedes tool or dental pick. Be very careful to avoid having the radio trim surround fall and damage the wood trim on the center console. You might want to put a towel down over the center console, between the shift lever and the ashtrays, before you remove the radio trim surround. Once you have that trim panel off, set it aside in a safe place, the clear finish on it chips easily.

*Just put the dental pick underneath the wood trim panel and pull out. The trim panel is very strong. Repeat this process on both sides, top and bottom. *










*It is held in place by 4 press-fit pins, two on either side.*










*Before you begin to remove the shift lever trim, the radio area should look like this. If you try to remove the shift lever trim with the radio or ashtray trim still in place, you will wind up damaging the horizontal wood trim on the center console.*









_ Note: These pictures were not taken in sequence, for this reason, you see power applied to the radio in the picture above. It is critical that you disconnect the batteries as described in step 4 before you get this far, otherwise, you will be in a heap of trouble so far as fault code generation is concerned._


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

* Continued (from step 15) from previous post *

The easy part of the work is now done. The difficult and annoying part – getting the driver footwell carpet up so you can get to the T81K connector on the access / start control module – comes next.

16) Remove the hood release handle by pulling out the little black locking clip that is mounted on the forward face of this handle, then just gently pulling the handle away from the sidewall of the car. 











17) Remove the screw that is located behind where the hood release handle was.











18) Remove the lower trim strip from the driver door aperture by lifting it up and pulling it off. Begin the lifting at the aft end of the strip, near the base of the B pillar. It is easiest to do this if you lift the trim strip from the outboard side of the car (from where it rests in the rubber gasket). If you try to lift it from the inside of the car, you run the risk of breaking it.











This photo shows where the spring tabs are, and if you know where they are ahead of time, it is a lot easier to get the trim strip out.











19) Remove the single Torx screw that secures the trim at the base of the B pillar to the body of the car. You don’t need to remove the entire trim piece.











20) Remove the dead pedal from the floor. It is held on with 6 spring clips, and just pulls straight off. Pry it off from the inboard side, applying equal pressure to the top and bottom at the same time, to avoid snapping it in two.











21) _*This step is difficult and can be frustrating.*_ Starting at the forward, top, outboard area of the driver footwell carpet – above the deadpedal area – pull the carpet back and downwards, and fold it under the brake pedal, so that that whole area of the carpet is now covering up the brake pedal (in other words, towards the rear of the car, not towards the front of the car).

Gently pry the base of the B pillar trim away from the carpet (see step 19) – you only need to move it about an inch – and pull the little bit of the front footwell carpet out from underneath this trim piece.

Now, lift the whole part of the driver footwell carpet that is closest to the door aperture – what you can see the edge of in the photo with the 4 arrows in step 18 - straight up. Don’t try to bend this carpet or to roll it, for starters, it doesn’t bend, and worse than that, it has insulation 6 inches thick hanging off it in places. Just pull it straight up. When you can see the access start control unit (picture below), then you can sort of bend the carpet towards the middle of the car, and shove a screwdriver or something like that in there to keep the carpet propped up.

*Access / Start Control Unit*










22) Pull the locking handle on connector T81k out (towards the front of the car). Gently pry the connector away from the access / start control module. The locking handle has two stages to its movement. Once the connector is about one quarter of an inch off the Kessy unit, you will be able to move the locking handle fully forward to the final stage, and remove the connector from the module.











23) At this point, I am going to refer you again to Spockcat’s website, Touareg Keyless Start Install Instructions, where he details the process of doing the same thing on a Touareg. The Touareg has the same connector and same access/start control module, it is just located in a much easier position to get at in the Touareg. 

Have a look at the pictures and instructions there that show how to take the T81k connector apart, but DON’T follow the instructions on the Touareg site for putting the new wires into the connector. The Touareg has blank pins in the unused holes of the T81k connector, and the Phaeton does not. Besides, if you crimp a wire onto a blank pin yourself on a Touareg (not exactly a military-spec way of doing things) and the wire comes loose later on, it’s easy to get at the connector. As you have already discovered, it’s hell to get at the connector in a Phaeton, so I’m recommending you do it right the first time and use VW repair wires.

24) Run the cable (the one you got from Spockcat, or one you have fabricated yourself, whatever) underneath the carpet and up into the transmission selector area. It is much easier to run it from the door area up towards the transmission selector area than to try and run it in the opposite direction. Be cautious and meticulous about how you route the cable – you don’t want it stressed when you put all that carpet back down, and you especially don’t want to route it over the top of the electric heaters for the rear footwell air supply that are directly under the driver seat. 

I forgot to take pictures showing how I routed my cable, but more or less, I shoved it up the side of the transmission tunnel from just behind the frame member that supports the front of the driver seat. Then I ran it forward about 14 inches until I could put the connector in the driver side ashtray – that left enough slack for manoeuvring it into the start button later in the process. I then ran the cable behind the frame area that supports the front part of the driver seat, up, over and through the cable protection clip in the door seal, and along the floor to the access / start control module.

Once you have the cable in place, the end with the loose wires, at the access/start control module will look like this:











As you can see in the photo above, I have marked the ends of the repair wires with a felt pen, each wire having from 1 to 5 dots on it. This is how I keep track of things when I am working off a wiring diagram. In the photo below, you can see that I labelled the 5 connections that run from the start button itself to the access / start control module (Kessy module) from 1 to 5 – then I marked the repair wires with dots corresponding to the appropriate circuit. You don’t have to do this, but I find it more convenient than trying to figure out colour codes.

*Wiring Diagram, Repair Wires*











25) Following the wiring diagram instructions, poke the 5 wires through the appropriate holes of the rubber seal, then poke them further down into the connector itself. Note that the metal connector on the end of the repair wire has 4 sides to it, and there is only one correct way to put it into the plastic T81k fitting. The correct way is with the crimps facing towards you – this will ensure that the barb in the end of the metal connector properly locks into the plastic frame. The repair wire will fit in incorrectly, if you put it in oriented in any of the other 3 possible ways – it will then slide back out when you shove the T81k connector onto the Kessy module, and you’ll have to do the whole driver seat and carpet re/re all over again to troubleshoot.

*Note correct orientation of wire when you put it into the connector!*










26) You now need to connect the three ground wires to the appropriate ground point. The three ground wires are probably tied together into a common 1 mm wire within the wiring harness. The wiring diagram indicates that this should be attached to ground point 397, which is the ground point located on the aft face of the frame that supports the driver seat. So, use this ground point. On the Phaeton, not all ground points are created equal, and you don’t want the access / start control module throwing codes at you later on, complaining of a poor quality ground. I suggest you replace the slide tap on the wiring harness with a circular ring crimp connector, and attach that directly to the ground point stud. Remember, you’re going to be shoving that carpet, complete with 6 inches of foam insulation, back down over the cable – you don’t want it ripping the slide tap off. Below is a photo of ground point 397.

*Ground Point 397*










------------------------------------------------------
OK, that completes the wiring – now just put everything back together. Assembly is the opposite order of disassembly, the only exception being the shift lever handle, which is a bit of a PITA. Put the driver seat back in position, and attach and torque the two front bolts. You won’t be able to get access to the two rear bolts until after you have connected the battery. Don’t connect the battery until you have re-connected everything else with the exception of the shift lever cover and the 2 rear driver seat attach bolts, otherwise, you’ll generate multiple fault codes.

27) Putting the shift lever cover back on is difficult. It’s the type of thing that someone has to show you how to do, otherwise, you will get really frustrated trying to attempt it, and probably wind up breaking a very expensive part in the Tiptronic mechanism in the process. Just drive the car to your dealer without the cover in place (you can lift up on the plastic stick to release the shift lock), and ask the Phaeton technician at your dealership to install it for you. It’s the same part on both the Touareg and the Phaeton, so it’s safe to assume your technician has done it before.
If you are not able to put the shift lever cover back on yourself, move the transmission selector into the PARK position, by lifting up on the plastic stick and moving it forward, before you start the car. 

28) When you first power up the car, you will be presented with a number of very dire warnings in the instrument cluster display – suspension system needs shop attention, perhaps an ABS warning, etc. This is because the steering wheel position sensor needs to be re-adapted (calibrated) anytime the batteries are disconnected. If you parked the car with the wheels pointing straight ahead, and the steering wheel perfectly straight before you disconnected the battery, there is a good chance that the car will self-calibrate if you put it through about 4 complete operational cycles before you move it.

A ‘complete operational cycle’ is a start, let it run for at least 60 seconds, turn it off and remove the key from the ignition, close and lock the doors (windows up first, or you’ll set off the cabin motion sensing alarm), wait 60 seconds and then repeat the process.
While you are going through these 4 cycles, you can function check the new start button. I suggest you read the instructions in the British Owner’s manual first. They are posted right below.

*DISCLAIMER:* I don’t believe in disclaimers, in fact, I very much resent the whole perversion of the American legal system that has resulted in disclaimers. If you guys didn’t have those friggin’ tort lawyers, we wouldn’t have to be putting the start button in ourselves, it would be installed at the factory for us, just like it is for European buyers.
Use your common sense. Your car may be different than mine, it might have different options, or even if it is identical, it might have different components if it was built before or after my car. If you encounter something you can’t figure out, don’t go further until you get it figured out.

I have checked this document pretty carefully for errors and omissions, but that doesn’t guarantee that there aren’t any. So, be alert and take responsibility for your own actions, just like people used to do in the old days, before coffee cups had “caution – contents are hot” warnings on them.

If you don’t feel comfortable attempting this task yourself – and it is a task that requires prior experience working on VW’s, like I said at the beginning – print these instructions out and ask your Phaeton service technician to put the button in for you. When you do something like this (asking your VW technician to install a European modification), there are two rules of courtesy that should be observed:

Plan on leaving your car with the tech for a few days, so that in case he encounters difficulty, he has the time to consult with others, and;
Always offer to pay “straight time” for the job – in other words, whatever time it takes him (or her) to do this custom work, that’s what you pay for.
I have followed those two rules in the past, and the result has always been a satisfying and interesting installation process for both the tech and myself.

Here are the operating instructions from the UK Owner’s Manual for a Touareg. The concept is the same for the Phaeton.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

I almost forgot - here's what it looks like after the job is done and everything is put back together.

Good luck with it... if you have any questions, just post them here.

Michael


*Keyless Start System*










*Important Note!* _(Added March 15, 2005)_
If you install a start button in a North American Phaeton, you still have to put the key blade into the ignition cylinder if you want to enable or disable the 'valet lockout' feature. This is, I presume, because start buttons are not offered in North America, and Phaetons in all regions of the world except North America are equipped with a rear foglight on/off switch in the place where the North American Phaetons have that valet lockout button.

*Important Warning and Advice!*  _(Added October 29, 2005)_ The most difficult part of the whole job is re-installing the leather shift lever handle - and the chrome base that fits on the bottom of it - back onto the shift lever stick once you have finished all of the re-assembly. The problem here is that there is a 'trick' to doing this, and unless someone has taught you the trick (visually demonstrated it), it is otherwise impossible to accomplish. Worse still, you can easily cause several hundred dollars of damage to the Tiptronic position sensing switch if you don't know what you have to be 'very careful' about.

So, my suggestion to all of you is that unless you know exactly how to re-install the leather shift lever cover and its chrome base piece, you should take your Phaeton to a VW dealer and have them refit those parts for you. It's only a 2 minute job, and the parts go back together the same way a Golf, Jetta, Passat or Touareg shift lever goes back together. For that reason you can be assured your VW tech will know how to do it properly. Please see this post for more information (and warning) about what damage can be done during the refitting process: Check Engine Light



_Modified by PanEuropean at 5:49 PM 3-16-2009_


----------



## PassaTT (May 24, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*








That is amazing. Congratulations on an awesome job and write-up, Michael. Enjoy it!


----------



## MoreA4 (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Awesome!!








Are you sure you're not a surgeon and not a commercial airline pilot (perhaps you're both)!
An amazing project to watch. I do not know anybody who would purchase a $100k masterpiece and take it home and do what you've successfully done. Congrats to you (and Spockcat)








So...what next? I want to see you put the refrigerator in (would that mean a 4-seater conversion?) Also, why did you not put in the airbag switch in (just curious)?
Again, awesome










_Modified by MoreA4 at 1:59 PM 11-13-2004_


----------



## dtwphaeton (Sep 7, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Holy smokes! What a post. I would love to have the feature, but would never work up the nerve to do this myself, and am going to wait a while before I decide whether to let the dealer try. But you are to be thanked and congratulated for accomplishing and sharing this.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (MoreA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MoreA4* »_ I want to see you put the refrigerator in... 

Refrigerator - nothing to do that, it's plug and play. Did it last week, not even complex enough to warrant a write-up.

*Refrigerator Compressor (view from trunk)*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/RefrigeratorCompressor.jpg

_Quote, originally posted by *MoreA4* »_Also, why did you not put in the airbag switch in (just curious)?

That would have required re-coding the airbag control module to have it recognize the presence of the keyswitch, and the codes for the airbag module are not in the 'public domain' yet. So, I figured, why bother? There's enough room in the rear seat to put little kids and their child seats - and if you fill the refrigerator up with juice first, they prefer the back seat to the front anyway.

Michael

_You know I'm just kidding about the fridge, right?







_


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
*6) 1 Phaeton start button wiring harness* - fabricated by Spockcat
You can either make your own wiring harness, using VW repair wires, or order a custom made harness from Spockcat. I ordered a harness from Spockcat, but it was delayed in the mail between the USA and Canada, so eventually I wound up making my own harness from VW repair wires. The following day, Spockcat’s harness arrived in my mailbox (Murphy’s law, right?). Personally, I recommend you order Spockcat’s harness, it is an absolutely first-rate piece of workmanship and is military spec in every way – it would not look out of place on the assembly floor in Dresden. You will still need some VW repair wires to put on the end of Spockcat’s harness, though, in order to have the correct pins to install into the T81K connector, which is the connector that fits into the access / start control module.


Not knowing that the Phaeton keyless connector didn't have the contacts in place like the Touareg connector has, I fabricated the harness for Michael without contacts on the end. But I think I actually have contacts that will fit the plug. I use them for another application and have to test them before I say that I have them for sure. So if anyone wants a complete wiring harness, including the contacts, they should email me. Michael has told me just how long the harness needs to be and I will be making it according to his instructions.

Nice write-up Michael! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## pilgrim7777 (Oct 27, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Well done Michael! I think you have done a terrific job, I am glad I ordered mine from the factory. Thanks for the mention.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (pilgrim7777)*

You're the only guy who had the choice of ordering one from the factory!







The rest of us out in the colonies are not to be trusted with such advanced technology....
Michael


----------



## digifant_gli (May 14, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I have followed your procedure with much interest....
I was wondering about the refrigerator.....how is it accessed from the passenger compartment and is it a factory item?
Cheers;
Peter


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (digifant_gli)*

The fridge can be ordered as a factory installed item through VW Individual. It is quite expensive. The door to the fridge is installed in the same spot as the ski-sack is, which means you have a choice of either the ski-sack or the fridge, but not both. It's sort of a pass-through door, you have to be in the back seat to access it.
The OEM for the fridge supplies the exact same unit to Mercedes, Bentley, Rolls, and VW.
Michael


----------



## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

Fantastic writeup. You obviously put a lot of time and effort into creating such a great guide.
I'm jealous I can't do this install, since the Phaeton I bought a week ago doesn't have keyless entry (I'm guessing THAT would be REALLY difficult to retrofit, since I'd have to replace my door handles, as well as install additional electronics.).
But I'm looking forward to installing keyless start on my Touareg, which DOES have keyless entry.
- Dave


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

I am curious whether you think the battery disconnection is really required. I know that the Bentley manual says you should disconnect the battery for many procedures on the car. On the Touareg keyless install, we never disconnect the battery to do this modification. Yes, some intermittant fault codes are generated because we remove the kessy module and unplug some wires from the center console. But we don't get any dire warnings in the MFI. You can clear the faults with a VAGCOM or leave them for the dealer to someday clear. And we don't need to recalibrated the steering angle sensor.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (spockcat)*

Well... My take on it is that you could probably 'get away' with doing the work with the batteries connected. But, you would generate literally dozens of fault codes.
If you have a diagnostic scan tool (VAG-COM, VAS 5052), you could then clear these codes once the work was done, but it would require several cycles to clear them all - more time than it would take to simply disconnect the two negative battery terminals. If you don't have a scan tool, then you will be creating an extra hour of work for your service technician next time he looks at the car - because he or she will need to look the report over, determine that most of the codes are spurious, and clear them all (through several cycles). The worst part of that will be that any legitimate fault codes that were generated post-install and actually need to be looked at carefully will be 'thrown out in the wash', along with the dozens of codes from the button install.
Lastly - whenever I am doing any kind of work on any VW product that involves immobilizer or start / access control systems, I always disconnect batteries as a matter of principle. The time it take to disconnect the batteries is minimal, compared to the time it takes to do a complete re-adaptation of keys, etc. if I happen to wiggle the connector the wrong way when I take it out.
Although I didn't mention it in the text of the original 'how-to', best practice suggests that a full diagnostic scan should be done before starting work, so that you have a record of what the vehicle status was before disassembly begins. That way, if you do wind up needing to clear fault codes after the work is done, at least you know what the status was before you started work. I did this, and noted 5 fault codes before I started disassembly. While I was putting the start button in, I investigated and fixed the problems that were causing 4 of the 5 codes. When the whole install process was done, I did another full diagnostic scan - the final scan showed 1 fault code remaining, both the Phaeton technician at my dealership and I know what is causing that one, it is minor, doesn't affect functionality, and we have agreed to defer it until the first oil change is due.
Michael


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

There are only 3 or 4 codes stored when the Touareg install is done. They are called intermittant by the computer and easily cleared with a VAGCOM. But the Touareg battery is under the driver's seat, so getting to it is an hour's job by comparison. And if you have a V10, you still have a second battery to deal with under the spare tire. 
I think disconnecting the batteries sets off more codes than not disconnecting them. I say this because I have seen code reports generated after a Touareg with a dead battery. It is a much longer list.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (spockcat)*

This is too funny - on a Touareg, you get easy access to the Kessy, but the batteries are a PITA. On the Phaeton, the Kessy is buried, but it's a 10 second job to get access to both batteries, with no tools at all required - they are on either side of the trunk, just in front of the tail-lights.
You will get multiple fault codes generated if the battery in the vehicle is allowed to run down, because the vehicle (Touareg or Phaeton) has an automated load-shedding routine that is invoked when battery voltage starts to drop. If you simply disconnect the batteries, you don't get codes (other than ABS and suspension, due to the steering wheel position sensor wanting a re-adaptation) because the load shedding routine does not run.
If the Phaeton is parked with the wheels straight ahead and the steering wheel perfectly centered before the batteries are disconnected, it will still throw a code requesting re-adaptation of the steering wheel position sensor after power is re-established, but after about 4 complete operational cycles (as described in the original text), it will take note that everything is properly aligned, and then drop the 'workshop' messages from the instrument panel display. This is why I emphasized the need to park with the wheels straight ahead and the steering wheel centered, then to go through 4 operational cycles once battery power is re-established.
After all this is done, a fault code will remain, but it will be annotated as 'sporadic', and will not return again if it is cleared. A VW technician who has gone through Phaeton training will understand why this code is present, if you explain that you disconnected the battery, and given that information, he or she will just clear the code and think nothing more of it.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 4:50 PM 11-14-2004_


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

I checked this morning on the contacts for the ends of the wires for the wiring harness. I do have correct contacts for the wires. If you purchase a Phaeton keyless harness from me I will supply it with the contacts on the ends of the wires so you don't have to buy and splice on the VW repair wires.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (spockcat)*

Here's a picture of the cable that Spockcat fabricated for me. I was quite impressed with the quality of it.

Michael

*Retrofit Cable for Phaeton Start Button Installation*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/StartButtonCable.jpg


----------



## FalconerHK (May 18, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Now that my car is fully repaired I am a happy Phaetonite (Phaetonian?) again. Consequently I am ready to drop some more money on the car.
I'll do the keyless mod when I am finished moving, but I am immediately interested in the fridge as my son requires medication that must be kept cold.
Can you please create a thread similar to this one outlining the source, cost, etc. for a fridge install?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (FalconerHK)*

I'm planning to go to Dresden at the end of this month, I'll see what info I can dig up for you when I am there.
FYI, when I was in Dresden the last time, the customer service rep told me that the majority of the folks who order the fridge order it for medication storage, not to keep champagne cold.
Michael


----------



## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (spockcat)*

just read the fantastic in its clarity post on the keyless start for the phaeton. congratulations, Pan!
as i understand, you have to leave the key in the ignition through the entire process, including disconnecting the kessy module. while installing the keyless button on my t-reg, i made a mistake, which essentially simulated the situation of leaving the key in the ignition and disconnecting the hot kessy module. the car's computer went crazy and did not want to give the key back from the ignition, essentially exchanging the on and off state of the ignition. hard to explain but the whole ordeal was really unpleasant and i was ready to get the car towed to the dealer. eventually, i found a sequence out of the following actions: connecting the kessy module, starting the engine, disconnecting the module and such, that "straitened" out the computer. however, i would strongly discourage from disconnecting the hot kessy module with the key in the ignition.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (****us)*

****us: Please re-read *Step 4* of the instructions, above. This step is quite important, in order to avoid the problems that you encountered with your truck.
Michael


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (****us)*

****us,
In my writeup for the Touareg, I have in *LARGE, BOLD TYPE* that the key must be removed from the ignition and the vehicle. Did you miss that part?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (spockcat)*

I just came across the attached Technical Bulletin from VW today. It states that the "Emergency Release Feature" of the ignition key in Phaetons (and Touaregs) has been deleted, in order to comply with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 114.
In other words, all new production Phaetons and Touaregs will NOT allow the owner the ability to remove the key from the ignition (using a paper clip or similar to activate the emergency release function) unless the shift selector is in the PARK position.
Although this will not affect the instructions I wrote above for the keyless start button retrofit (because the key is left in the ignition, and step 4 calls for both battery negative terminals to be disconnected), this information might be of interest to folks planning to do this modification in the future.
The original VW PDF of this bulletin (48-04-01) is attached.
Michael


----------



## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Wow- this is gonna make some owners really angry. The use of the paper clip into the emergency release is the only way I was able to remove my key after the battery unexpectedly died (twice) on my Touareg.
- Dave


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (uberanalyst)*

I don't think VW is happy about it either - but, the government that promulgated the legislation gave them no choice in the matter. This only applies to North American cars. The safety standards are harmonized between Canada and America, so we get your 'good ideas' and vice versa. If you don't like those ugly tether clips for the child seats on the top of the hatshelf (behind the rear seat), blame the Canadians for that great idea.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Earlier in this thread, I wrote:

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_If the Phaeton is parked with the wheels straight ahead and the steering wheel perfectly centered before the batteries are disconnected, it will still throw a code requesting re-adaptation of the steering wheel position sensor after power is re-established, but after about 4 complete operational cycles (as described in the original text), it will take note that everything is properly aligned, and then drop the 'workshop' messages from the instrument panel display. This is why I emphasized the need to park with the wheels straight ahead and the steering wheel centered, then to go through 4 operational cycles once battery power is re-established.
After all this is done, a fault code will remain, but it will be annotated as 'sporadic', and will not return again if it is cleared. A VW technician who has gone through Phaeton training will understand why this code is present, if you explain that you disconnected the battery. Given that information, he or she will just clear the code and think nothing more of it.


I have since found out that you can expedite the process of clearing the "Workshop!" message on the display between the speedometer and the tachometer following battery disconnection by just driving the car in a figure 8 pattern at speeds between 15 and 30 km/h (10 to 20 MPH). If there is a big shopping mall near you, you can probably find space in a corner of the parking lot to do this safely.
This process provokes the car to re-calibrate the steering wheel position sensor (the slip ring) on its own. The fault code will still remain in the cars diagnostic memory, but the instrument cluster message will go away, and suspension control functionality (low-normal-high settings) will return.
Michael


----------



## VDUBfanatic (Apr 17, 2000)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Unbelievable write-up. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Somewhat OT: has anyone stopped and looked at the intricacy and craftsmanship of this car in the photos when Michael was disassembling its bits to install the keyless start? It is like peering into a giant-sized Patek Philippe.


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Michael,
This is my kind of mod! Now when my wife hunts you down and tells you not to give me any more crazy ideas, at least you will know why.







Great post.
So can you share approximate cost for the components? I re-read the posts and I don’t think I missed it. I also love the “full wood” around the bezel that is being replaced. Mine is only wood around the bezel and interior gray around the cup holders. I’ll look and see if there is a post on the possibility of changing this piece to the one in your pics. I assume this is a W12 option.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*

Bill:
I purposely did not post the price of the parts, because I bought them in Canada, and parts prices in the USA may be different. I haven't added up the bill yet, but I think the total parts cost was about USD $300. The trim surround (grey piece) was the most expensive part, the starter button was the next most expensive.
I spent a lot of money to get a custom key cylinder made in Germany, to match my car keys, only to decide later on to just glue it to the underside of the trim panel and not hook it up. What I should have done was just ask the technicians at my dealership for an identical lock cylinder that they had removed from a Golf or Jetta glovebox due to internal problems (key not turning in cylinder). This would have looked exactly the same, served the purpose just as well, and saved a ton of money.
If you take the part numbers to your dealership, they can look up the prices (in America) for you.
Michael


----------



## Phagus (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_****us,
In my writeup for the Touareg, I have in *LARGE, BOLD TYPE* that the key must be removed from the ignition and the vehicle. Did you miss that part?

spockcat and PanEuropean,
do not flame me. i just tried to comment on spock's comment that disconnecting the hot kessy module with the key in the ignition is not a good idea. either remove the key from the car, as spock's instructions say (i RTFM) for the t-reg or disconnect the battery with the key in the ignition, as pan's indicate for the phaeton. 
take care and good luck. i will refrain from browsing phaeton forums in the future.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (****us)*


_Quote, originally posted by *****us* »_spockcat and PanEuropean,
do not flame me. i just tried to comment on spock's comment that disconnecting the hot kessy module with the key in the ignition is not a good idea. either remove the key from the car, as spock's instructions say (i RTFM) for the t-reg or disconnect the battery with the key in the ignition, as pan's indicate for the phaeton. 
take care and good luck. i will refrain from browsing phaeton forums in the future.

No flames or need to discontinue browsing the Phaeton forum. I just wanted to be sure that the instruction to remove the key from the car was obvious enough in my instructions. There was already one other person who tried to lock his car in the middle of the procedure with the kessy module, without pretty results.


----------



## Phaetonian (Nov 21, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

As others have noted, this is a fantastic post. Thank you.
In fact, it is so fantastic that I'd like to add the keyless start to my W12. As a first step, I talked to my VW dealer--they said that they wouldn't do this for legal reasons.








Next, I tried a couple of specialty shops in the Twin Cities (Minnesota) area (German Motowerks and another recommended by them). They both said they would recommend that the dealer do this as they would have access to the necessary European instructions, etc.








While I wish I were handy enough to just do this myself, I'm just smart enough to know that I shouldn't. So, can anyone recommend a dealer/shop in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area that I should trust my car with? 
Thanks in advance for any help!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Phaetonian)*

We need to organize what the Golf and Jetta gang call a 'GTG' (get-together) to do a bulk installation of these start buttons, and a bulk recode of everyone's Phaeton to get rid of unwanted beeps, etc.
I'm having my own GTG with Sebastian ('Theresias') tonight - I arrived in Dresden about an hour ago - long drive from Zurich, but at least I wasn't on the motorcycle this time - maybe we can make plans to have a big recoding session in the USA sometime...








Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Sounds like a plan to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mkla2000 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (dcowan699)*

Great write-up, Michael!!
I am just starting to order all the parts, and might even take a crack at doing the retrofit myself. However, I had a question for you....
what if I decide to make the airbag switch functional? what are the extra steps that need to be taken? are there any other parts that need to be ordered?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (mkla2000)*

Hi John:
If you enjoy taking things apart, you are not constrained by a time deadline, and you have a bit of experience with VW products, then by all means go ahead and do the start button install yourself - it is kind of a fun task. 
About that airbag switch - to be honest, I don't think I would try retrofitting that, and in a way, it was a blessing in disguise that I didn't get the electrical component of the switch in time to attempt a retrofit at the time I did the start button install. Here's why I don't think I would try it:
1) I don't know if the wiring harness in the North American Phaetons has provision for that airbag disconnect switch. It might - but then again, it might not, because certain parts of the Phaeton wiring harness are specific to North American models. If it was just 'plug and play', I might take a shot at it. But there is no way at all that I would attempt to patch or cut into the airbag wiring system - the tolerances for resistance levels are just too tight to allow for that kind of field installation.
2) It is probable that the software for the airbag system would need to be recoded if the switch was installed. The airbag system is about the only system in the car that we cannot function test after making a modification. I would not want to make a software change to such a safety-critical system without being certain that I had coded it correctly.
3) I really don't have a need to disable the front airbag. The switch is provided, in Europe, in case people want to carry children in the front passenger seat. I don't have any children, and even if I did, the legislation where I live does not allow children under 12 to be passengers in the front seat of a car.
I think it is important to mount the OEM keyswitch, otherwise you have an ugly and unacceptable hole in the trim panel, but as I mentioned in the body of the main post, if I had to do it all over again, I would try to source an inoperative key cylinder from the technicians at my dealership, and just put that in place, rather than spending about $100 to buy one keyed to match my car.
Michael


----------



## mkla2000 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

makes perfect sense to me - I guess I will well enough alone and not try to install the key switch for the airbag.
I was actually thinking in using the "hole" for for RJ connectors for my XM/iPod, so I might have a use for that space after all.


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Michael,
Could you comment on if it would be at all possible to get to the Kessy and wire running up to the switch without removing the seat? Why do I ask? I ordered my parts yesterday and these bolts were the one part that was not in the U.S. So could be months out. Not to mention that whole can't use them twice thing. Not doubting your information, just seems really strange. With any luck the rest of the parts will show up in time to give the Phaeton a Christmas makeover. Assuming I can work around this. If not, I'll just wait.
Along those lines, I got a part number of N-909-650-02 for the seat bolts which I don’t think you have in your original post. Of course, I haven't received them as of yet to make sure that the part number is correct.
Also, I checked on the lock cylinder (not the piece that attaches it to the back side of the trim but the piece that actually switches the air bag if that were an option). It would seem that you were right that this is a generic piece across the VW line. It's 100 USD for the matched to you key version and around 60 USD to get one that comes with two keys. I went with the second option myself as I didn't think I could find a drilled out option very easily. Of course not much of a price difference. But I may be able to receive it sooner.
I still have to find the trim tool that is like a dental pick. Any suggestions on where I might find one of these?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*

Hi William:

No chance at all of getting to the Kessy module without removing the seat. Don't worry about the seat bolts, though - mine are on back order also. I gently cleaned and then re-installed the original bolts and torqued them to the spec. I'm not 100% sure why the bolts need to be replaced - I know there is a special coating on them, but what the real reason is, I don't know. Anyway, I feel comfortable using the car with the original bolts in place until I get the 4 replacements and install them. It's not a big job to re & re the bolts, about an hour's work.

About the lock cylinder - talk to the Phaeton tech at your dealership. When my 'custom ordered, key-matched' lock cylinder arrived, I showed it to the tech and told him I was just installing it 'for show' (meaning, to plug the hole) - he felt awful that I had spent the money on it, and told me he could have given me one from a Golf or Jetta, just made up of parts that they had in the 'spares' bin at the dealership. It would not be a 'drilled out' one at all - it seems the dealerships keep a little bin of spares for these locks, so they can fix mechanically defective cylinders without having to send out for new ones. 

Concerning the dental pick, perhaps David (fellow forum member and Phaeton owner) might know how and where to get one - he is a dental surgeon. I just asked my dentist if he had an old one I could have, and he gave me one. What is even better than a dental pick is a VW Trim Removal tool - after the Phaeton technician at my dealership read the post about installing the start button, he gave me a proper trim removal tool as a gift. Here is a picture of what it looks like, I am sure it does not cost more than $5 or so, and you could probably buy it at your dealership.

Michael

*VW Trim Removal Tool*
(What the VW technicians use, instead of a dental pick)








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/Sunroof1.jpg


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Thanks Michael. I had a feeling that the re-use of the bolts until the real one arrived would be "appropriate". At least that was what I was going to try!
As for the trim stick, yea, I go the one you have pictured. That's a generic trim stick that you can get from several different places. I still want the "dental pick" one as I believe there's at least one tight spot that I need it from your pictures.
I've seen the pick one when I had issue doing my V1 hard wire install. Shortly after I took the trim piece covering the rear view mirror off, the mirror fell. Luckily the harness caught it. I took it to the dealer to find as I could not prevent it from falling. Turns out the torx screw thread piece was put in upside down at assembly. So it could not be adequately tightened. (ps I looked at you post on this subject, but didn't check the piece's orientation in spite of your pic as I assumed from the factory was correct.
Anyway, that's a long way to the helpful tech that popped this open for me while I waited. We looked at it together with the manual. He used a pick tool top open at least one portion. I asked him where he got it and he mentioned it was a snap on tool. (name brand in US for fairly expensive tools) So I'll have to see if I can find one as well.
By the way, the manual was a little lacking in removing the overhead console. So we used your pics! I also showed him this thread. I think he was pretty amazed at the amount of date you have gathered.



_Modified by whealy at 10:53 AM 12-19-2004_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*

Great to hear you introduced a Phaeton technician to our forum! I am hoping we can attract more service technicians as members, that would give us a much more rounded membership - we could "see things from both sides", if you know what I mean.
Concerning the rear view mirror mounting - not sure what you mean when you said "the torx screw thread piece was put in upside down at assembly". I remember spending a long time studying this piece after I dis-assembled the mirror, simply because I failed to pay attention to how it was oriented when I took it apart. I seem to recall that it was sort of a wedge-shaped piece of white metal that caused a 'V' shaped bracket to expand when the screw was tightened. It is kind of a funny bit of engineering, but I think it is the only way that VW could successfully implement attachment of a fairly heavy interior rear view mirror while at the same time meeting the federal motor vehicle safety standards that require that the mirror "break-away" when only very light force is applied, so as not to cause injury in an accident.
What might have happened - rather than an assembly error being made in Dresden - is that the mirror might have been knocked loose during the shipping or pre-delivery prep process, after the vehicle left Germany, and the person who re-attached it put the parts together backwards. As you pointed out, there is not much documentation available about mirror re-assembly.
I'll go through my photo-file and see if I can put together a better post on how to re-install an interior rear view mirror, once I have faster and more reliable internet access.
Michael


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Hum ... I wonder what this would look like an a non-extended wood gray interior ... like mine ...
Of course this would not have been possible without Michael's help along with Spockcat. Thanks you both.










_Modified by whealy at 8:01 PM 1-6-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*

Hi Bill:
Nice looking work! Congratulations on getting it all installed and up and running.
If you have time, perhaps you could add your thoughts and suggestions to the thread (perhaps a description of any difficulties you encountered, if any) - that will help the next person who does this modification.
By the way, is that Eucalyptus wood?
Michael


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Let's see ...
If you use Spockcat's wire harness, you don't need the repair wires.
Use caution when putting the connection ends into the wiring harness. Some of mine had unwired (as in no wire connected) connectors in them that had to be removed before you coudl put the ones in from the wiring harness.
I had a heck of a time putting the gear shift back on. Finally caved into Michael's suggestion of taking it to a tech (minus the doughnuts). But I had to remove it again for my effort. And I need to remove it yet again to complete everything on the underside. So I'll see if I can post a DIY on the gear shifter removal and replacement as my second attempt was successful.
I found the running of the wire under the driver carpet to be the toughest step.
I would suggest that this is a pretty difficult mod certinaly not for the beginner. I made my share of mistakes along the way, but recovered from most of them. Just be prepaird to be patient.
Hope that helps add to an already detailed post on this subject.

BTW to Michael's question:
By the way, is that Eucalyptus wood?
Yes, I beleive it is, but I can't find the name anywhere on my sticker. I beleive that is the base wood and since no wood options are listed, I beilve that you are correct.


_Modified by whealy at 5:05 PM 1-7-2005_


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (whealy)*

:thumbup::thumbup:
Another Phaeton keyless install. Love to see them.







Glad to give you what VW should have provided in the first place. I noticed in the latest Road & Track magazine that the new Infiniti M45 has keyless start. I guess the Japanese are not afraid of American lawyers.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_ I guess the Japanese are not afraid of American lawyers.

That's because they had a good experience with McArthur in '45. On the other hand, VW got a real haircut in the '80s over the Audi 'brake and transmission selector' business - I think that was a traumatic experience for them.








Michael


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
That's because they had a good experience with McArthur in '45. On the other hand, VW got a real haircut in the '80s over the Audi 'brake and transmission selector' business - I think that was a traumatic experience for them.








Michael

Just to kind of continue this part of the discussion ...
I kind of found it strange too. After all the new Vet has this feature as well. Somthing about you have to put it in reverse to lock the column though. I don't think it has the two stage switch like we have. But Michael's thoughts on why VW has done what they have would seem pretty strong.

_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Another Phaeton keyless install. Love to see them.







Glad to give you what VW should have provided in the first place. I noticed in the latest Road & Track magazine that the new Infiniti M45 has keyless start. I guess the Japanese are not afraid of American lawyers.

Thanks spockcat!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bill* »_I had a heck of a time putting the gear shift back on. 

Hi Bill:
Don't feel bad about that - no matter what I tried, I found it was impossible for me to put the transmission selector lever handle back on the stick. So, I just took my Phaeton to my dealer every time I needed to have the transmission selector lever re-installed. The techs at the dealership were very nice about this and always re-installed it on a 'while-you-wait' basis, whenever I showed up.
For anyone else planning this modification: Don't try to put the transmission selector lever handle back on yourself, you'll just get frustrated, and run the risk of breaking something. When you are putting the car back together, you can (and should) fit the silver plastic sleeve from the bottom of the transmission selector lever handle back into the hole. The sleeve serves an important purpose, it moves a small sliding plate on the top of the shift lever electronics assembly that contains electro-magnetic sensors indicating the position of the shift lever.
But - when you are re-assembling things, be *very careful* about how you fit that chromed plastic lower sleeve down into the hole in the transmission control stick dust cover. It needs to fit through a hole in the sliding black plastic plate (what you can see), then through another hole in the electronics assembly on the top of the shift lever area - and you can't easily see the second (lower) hole unless you are paying attention to it. If you don't fit it through both holes gently, you run the risk of breaking the little sliding piece that contains the magnets that the sensors pick up. I have a picture of this part that I want to add to this post, but my 9.6 kbs dial-up from Sudan prevents me from uploading it right now.
Concerning refitting the shift lever selector handle, there are two tricks to doing that - the Phaeton tech at my dealership tried his best to teach me them, but I just couldn't get the knack of it. Trick number one is that you use compressed air to 'blow out' the chrome thumb pushbutton before beginning the re-install. That chrome thumb pushbutton will retract all the way into the selector lever as soon as it is removed, and using compressed air to blow it back out is the easiest way to go.
Trick two is that the technician drills a small hole in the aft face of the selector lever cover - almost exactly where the little plate that says 'V8' or 'W12' will be, once that wood cover is re-installed. After blowing the pushbutton out with compressed air, and after manipulating the small mechanical parts inside the shift lever cover into the correct position for re-installation, he or she then uses a small piece of .040 aviation lockwire to hold the interior mechanical parts in the correct position, prior to inverting the shift lever selector cover, and then sliding it onto the stick.
As I mentioned earlier - the shift lever selector cover mechanicals on the Phaeton are very similar to the design of the shift lever selector cover on other VW products, so save yourself the stress, and have the techs put that part on for you. They've done it many times before on other VW products.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

This is the sliding plastic plate that you have to be very aware of (and very careful with) when you are fitting the chromed plastic base of the transmission selector lever handle.

Note that the process goes like this: You seperate the chromed plastic base of the handle from the leather covered handle itself (just bend the two parts). Then you slide the conical chrome plastic base down through the two round holes. Note that there is a 'front and back' orientation to this chromed plastic part - you can see by noting how it will fit into the leather covered handle.

If you drive the car without the chromed plastic base in place, the transmission display in between the speedometer and tachometer will not know what gear you are in, and all the letters from P to S will light up. No harm is caused by this, but it can cause you to worry if you are not expecting it to happen. There is no problem at all driving the car without the leather covered selector lever handle installed.

Michael

*This is the part you have to be careful not to break when you are re-installing the shift lever handle.*
_You cannot buy the little sliding plate by itself if you break it, you have to buy the whole electronics assembly, and that is over $200._








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/Partthatbreaks.jpg


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

Michael,
My tech did something a little different. (I read your teck's tricks in the manual and could not necessarly repeat them.) He had me pull the button on the shifter past the normal extension length. When you do this, the button locks in an extended position. Then you can go through the usual steps to remove it. Then you reassemble it for replacement making sure you don't vibrate it too hard to loose the extended button lock. Then you just put it back on, carefully making sure your comments on the plate are taken into consideration. Once it's back in postion, you simply push the button and it's all back to normal.
Like I said, I'll try and do a DIY when I take it off the next time as i think pictures will help this description immensly.


_Modified by whealy at 11:47 AM 1-8-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (whealy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *whealy* »_...He had me pull the button on the shifter past the normal extension length. When you do this, the button locks in an extended position... 

Fascinating. I didn't know that the button would lock in position if it was pulled out before the shift lever handle was removed. It sounds like that would make it a WHOLE lot easier to re-assemble the thing.
Thanks a lot for sharing that information, Bill.
Michael


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

What a PITA. Glad that on the Touareg you don't have to remove the shift lever!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_Glad that on the Touareg you don't have to remove the shift lever! 

Well - it's a truck, that's why. Trucks are supposed to be simple.


----------



## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I just wanted to report an other success story on retrofitting keyless start to my car. Thanks to Pan European and Spockcat it took me 4 hours to complete the job without any problems. I will just go to my dealer to have the shifter put back in place.
My next task is to try to remove the nav acceptance screen. Has any body being able to do that on the Phaeton?
Again thank you guys for all your help.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (fly4food)*

Wow, congratulations on getting it done in that short a period of time. VW ought to make you an honorary Phaeton technician!
Concerning the nav acceptance screen, no good news on that topic yet. I'm not holding out a lot of hope - I think that message is burned into the EPROM of the infotainment unit. Nav Acceptance Screen
Michael


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: (fly4food)*

fly4food,
Congrats. I guess it's a Carmel thing.







Seriously, nicely done.


----------



## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (fly4food)*

Went over this afternoon and tried out Philippe's new toy...I must say this is pretty cool...The bizarre thing is that I ordered all of these parts straight thru
my Parts Dept...No fuss; no muss. Why this is not offered from the Factory as an option, as it is with MBZ, I just do not understand. One would think that if it was such a big deal, it would be difficult to get the component parts...there must be something else going on...Michael????


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (vwguild)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter* »_Why this is not offered from the factory as an option?

I suspect one of two reasons, in this order:
1) VW of NA concerns about lawsuits - if, for example, someone leaves children in the car unattended, and also leaves the key in the car (inside a purse or jacket).
2) VW of NA is not disposed to offer all the different options that are available on Volkswagen products to North American buyers. The normal practice of VW of NA is to 'bundle' options together in a few different packages - such as a technology package, or a cold weather package - then pre-order the vehicles with these packages. The normal practice of VW in Europe is to allow customers to specify their own vehicle - right down to the brand of tires they want - then, the vehicle is built, and shipped to the customer.
I had lunch with the Phaeton worldwide marketing manager when I was in Dresden in November 2004. He was also quite surprised that none of these really neat options were offered to North American buyers. He told me that VW of NA had advised VW in Europe that 'North American buyers were unwilling to wait for a car to be specially built for them' and that VW of NA had also stated that 'North American buyers want to be able to walk in and buy the car right off the lot'. I tried explaining that not all buyers think that way - but, the way it works is that the importers (e.g. VW of NA) have all the power to decide what is offered in their countries, and how they want to market the vehicles.
There are some items - very few - that we could not get in North America due to homogulation (safety standard) approval specification - for example, double xenon headlights, because the beam pattern does not conform to North American specs - but so far as things like starter buttons, refrigerators, wood steering wheels, etc. go - our inability to get these options is entirely the result of decisions made in Auburn Hills.
Michael


----------



## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

The interesting thing here is the idea that Americans will not wait for there cars...
Now, I certainly agree that in some cases this maybe true, but certainly not all.
In addition, this observation totally contradicts the original marketing concept that was put forth at PHAETON TRIAD Meetings that we attended in the Fall of 2003. Here, we were presented with idea that the PHAETON would basically be a bespoken product just as they are in Europe. Of course, the one thing that we have to deal with, at least on the West Coast, is the 3.5 weeks crossing the pond. This, and the Port Process, add about a month to the entire procedure.
Safety and those DOT items aside, it certainaly would be nice to have an options list that was a bit more extensive than the one we currently use.
I had a few conversations, last year, about INDIVIDUAL...Problem here is a very unique car, and the potential for a customer changing his/her mind, or the potential for reversal of fortune occurring between order and delivery...
Keyless start, for example, certainly would not create that type of concern... 


_Modified by vwguild at 9:14 AM 1-26-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (vwguild)*

Hi Peter:
I think your comments are 'right on the money'. You understand the concept perfectly, and so do the sales staff in Europe (where they cover both bases - they keep a few Phaetons handy at different dealerships for the "I want one today" client, but otherwise all orders are processed as bespoke orders), and so do most of the Phaeton owners who participate here on the BB.
VW of NA has been really, really quiet on this subject, and that disappoints me. It would not take much effort on their part to permit implementation of the 'VW Individual' program here in North America. All they need to do is just allow folks to special-order the cars, and make the full range of options (that are compliant with homogulation requirements) available on special orders.
I do appreciate that the European practice of individually specifying each vehicle would not work here in North America for the Golf, Jetta and Passat products, primarily because folks buying these cars want to get the car promptly. In the case of the Phaeton, though, I think there are very few Phaeton buyers who drive onto the lot with a muffler dragging - or get referred to the sales department by the service writer, after having discovered that their current wheels are beyond economical repair. VW needs to recognize this, and offer buyers both the ability to custom-specify the equipment on their Phaeton, and take advantage of the (extremely well administered) VW Individual program at the Dresden plant.
Perhaps when we have our "Phaeton Get-Together" at the New York Auto Show in March, we can meet with PhaetonChix and discuss this further. If I can organize my schedule so that I can get to the Geneva show at the beginning of March, I'll try do promote the idea further with the marketing folks from Europe.
What I would really like to see - perhaps this is dreaming - is a $3,000 service fee for North American VW Individual orders that includes a round trip business class air ticket to Dresden, and 3 nights at the Hilton Dresden, which is about a 15 minute walk from the factory. The client would pay the $3,000 up front, fly over to Dresden, do the tour, spend half a day with a customer service person, specify their car, then fly back home. The customer service person would then fax the build specs back to the home dealership, and once the purchase transaction has been concluded, the home dealership would fax back confirmation of the vehicle order. About 14 weeks later, the car would arrive at the North American dealership.
Michael


----------



## vwguild (Feb 15, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

The idea of resurrecting the VW European Delivery program has been talked about now for about 5 years...the latest was in 2000 when I was told that this would happen with the launch of the PHAETON. 
Of course, a great deal has occurred since then...Sales, currency issues, etc.
But, in looking forward, I feel that it is something that really deserves another look.
The PHAETON, of course, would be the product to start with, but the Autostadt in Wolfsburg would certainly be a great destination as well.


----------



## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Since you now have a dummy airbag disable switch installed, you may need to disclose to any future buyer that it doesn't perform its indicated task.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Paldi)*

Naw, I don't have to worry about that sh*t, I live in Canada. Tort law up here is based on the assumption that you will use your own common sense. If I sell the car, I'll just shove the end of a Crazy Glue tube into that key cylinder and squeeze it. That will ensure that the switch does not function (does not turn). If it does not turn, then any fool should be able to deduce that they can't turn the passenger airbag off.
Michael


----------



## mkla2000 (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*


----------



## quailallstar (Dec 2, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (mkla2000)*

Great job Michael! Awesome work..... wow. Makes me wish I had a Pheaton to do this to as well...


----------



## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit*

michael....i plan to retrofit the wireless start feature on my w12 thx to your diligent guidance on the attached url: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1683482
do you have the part numbers for the 4 driver seat retaining bolts...at the time on your initial post you didn't have it posted. many thx for your help.
sean


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit (snw)*

Sean,
Do you have the parts for this job. If not, I have them and I have decided against performing the retrofit. If you need the parts, I can sell them to you as they are scarce. Email me at [email protected]
David


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit (snw)*

Hi Sean:
I don't have the part numbers handy right now. I know that some other members have purchased these - does anyone else happen to have the part number available? Otherwise I will call my dealer and have them look up the invoice early this week.
Michael


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit (snw)*

I still have mine in the box. Thanks for the reminder.








The label has N 909 650 02 on it. I assume this is the part number. However, ther is another number sequence in smaller print that has 2YL SCHRAU.
Hope that helps.


----------



## viscount (Jan 2, 2005)

*Re: ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit (whealy)*

I still like the idea of a road trip meeting up at Michael's house...








Ed.


----------



## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit (whealy)*

whealy & michael...thx for speedy response....much appreciated.
david...i just sent you an email expressing my interest.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit (snw)*

Sean:
Is it OK if I merge this thread onto the end of the existing keyless start thread?
Michael


----------



## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: ATTENTION: Need help from PanEuropean - Wireless Start Retrofit (PanEuropean)*

ok by me michael


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

BTW - I just received a call back from my technician. The torque spec on the driver seat bolts are 40n/m or 29.5 ft/lbs. At least I don't think that info is contained somewhere in this massive thread.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (whealy)*

I'm still waiting on the bolts from being on backorder. Sean bought everything else from me but I'm still waiting on those bolts.


----------



## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: I'm still waiting on the bolts from being on backorder. Sean bought everything else from me but*

dave....thx again...you're a scholar and a gentleman!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: I'm still waiting on the bolts from being on backorder. Sean bought everything el ... (snw)*

Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you , then I may let your installers do it for me also. I'd rather get this job done with the company of Michael and several Phaeton owners later this year as I think it would be fun to meet many of the forum participants, have a good time together, and do some neat things to our cars. A Phaeton club would be nice.


----------



## snw (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ...*

will do dave. the installer i use is ai design: http://www.aidesign.com/ they are terrific. so far they have performed the following upgrades on my w12:
- valentine 1 rader w/ rearview mirror display
- sirius satellite radio 
- dvd player with screens mounted in headrests
their work quality is simply impeccable.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (snw)*

It already sounds like a trip worth taking. :thumbup:


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (dcowan699)*

I discovered something today: If you have installed a start button in a North American Phaeton, you still have to put the key blade into the ignition cylinder if you want to enable or disable the 'valet lockout' feature.
This is, I presume, because start buttons are not offered in North America, and Phaetons in all regions of the world except North America are equipped with a rear foglight on/off switch in the place where the North American Phaetons have that valet lockout button.
Michael


----------



## whealy (Nov 15, 2004)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I discovered something today: If you have installed a start button in a North American Phaeton, you still have to put the key blade into the ignition cylinder if you want to enable or disable the 'valet lockout' feature.
This is, I presume, because start buttons are not offered in North America, and Phaetons in all regions of the world except North America are equipped with a rear foglight on/off switch in the place where the North American Phaetons have that valet lockout button.
Michael


Michael,
I'm not even sure I remember how to switch open the key blade. Can you do an DYI on this and using it as described above?















Seriously, thanks for passing the info along!


----------



## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (PanEuropean)*

This brings an interesting question:
Can we retrofit a rear fog light to our North American cars?
Living by the coast, most of our summers are foggy from May to September, and I would gladdly trade the DRL for rear fog light.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (fly4food)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fly4food* »_...I would gladly trade the DRL for rear fog light.

Not after you discover what the cost would be. Because of the difference in color temperature between the European and North American tail-lamps, you would need to replace one tail-lamp module on each side, in order to keep a balanced appearance. Parts alone would be well over $1,000.-, likely close to $2,000.- It ain't like the Golf IV, where all you have to do is buy a bulb for the existing fixture, and run a wire.
I checked into the parts prices when I was in CH back in December.
Michael


----------



## mkell (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (PanEuropean)*

How much did the parts for the push button start conversion cost?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (mkell)*

I think about $300 to $400, total - I didn't keep close tabs on it. The most expensive part was the grey surround for the shift lever, that was about $100. The start button itself was not that much - perhaps $50. I made my own wiring harness, which was quite expensive, but now Jim (Spockcat) from the Touareg forum has expanded his product line to include Phaeton start button wiring harnesses. I don't know exactly what he charges, probably around $70 or so (that's a guess). Other than that, all you need is 4 new bolts to attach the driver seat to the car, because the old ones are not supposed to be re-used.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (PanEuropean)*

The cost is around $250. SEAN, the bolts should arrive at your house Friday. Good luck on the install. I kept four bolts for myself as I will probably get this done myself in the summer. It might be good for me to let your installer do it for me. I just feel I need help on this add-on even though I think I could do it myself. If you for some reason need the extra bolts due to a foul up , just call me and their yours. Please check the part no. on the package to make sure they are what you wanted. It looked correct to me.
David


----------



## davew (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (dcowan699)*

I just wanted to mention that when I did the install on my t-reg, I opted not to buy the euro trim pieces. If you look at the pics of the stock NA piece, you will notice that it has the screw holes and markings for ths pushbutton already located on it. some handy work with a dremel and I was able to get a perfect install without needing to fill any 4th whole with airbag locks or anything like that, and I saved some $$ too. the t-reg is harder to cut out as well, as its walnut trim where the button goes...the phaeton should be much easier to do this way. worse case you trash the stock piece and buy a euro one or a stock one form somebody that has already done the insla and replaced theirs...
best mod I ever did, either way...
dave w


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: I'm still waiting on the bolts from being on backorder. Sean bought everything el ... (snw)*

Hi Sean:
Just a postscript: The reason we have to replace the bolts with new ones is because they are "stretch bolts". In other words, the shaft of the fastener is designed to deform a little bit when it it tightened to the correct torque, thus ensuring that it cannot ever work loose. Once you discover how heavy that Phaeton driver seat is (ca. 125 kg - the shop manual says to use the engine hoist to lift it), you will then appreciate how safety critical the 4 seat retaining bolts are. Although the three seat belt anchors are ultimately attached to the frame of the car, you don't want a 125 kg loose object behind you if you are ever in a frontal collision.
This technology of 'stretch fasteners' is fairly new, it was developed to ensure that perfect torque could be achieved and that the fastener would never work loose. Anyway - now you know why we have to replace the bolts. Be careful not to mix up the old and new ones because it is impossible to tell them apart, they don't look different to the naked eye once they have been used. Next time I am in Dresden, I will see if I can arrange to purchase 50 of them from the company that supplied VW with them - that way, I can just mail out sets of 4 when someone is doing this mod - or, send the lot to Jim (Spockcat) and he can include them with the wiring harness.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Keep me posted Sean as if they do a great job for you ... (davew)*

I have a stock one leftover, in case anyone gets into trouble. But, I think Dave W. is being too modest about his skill and craftsmanship with respect to fine detail work and model-making. I seriously considered making a hole in the original part, but then gave up - if I was out of round by as little as ten-thousand's of an inch, the difference would have been visible.
Now, Dave C., well, I could see him making that hole lickety-split, with his "ultimate" Dremal tool, the one that comes with a set of about 500 different burrs for precision carving.







All Dave C. would have to remember is to not restore it to perfect condition again, after drilling out the hole.
Michel


----------



## davew (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

another happy customer!! I did a keyless start button install this past Friday that went really well thanks to this thread and all you guy's help and info. I did the whole job in just about 1 hour without rushing. I had done a touareg before, though, and have LOTS of experience with this type of work. I also cut some corners that didn't seem necessary from the posted instructions w/o sacrificing quality. Here is what I did differently: 
I did not remove the driver's seat. I found it quite easy to romove the door sill trim and dead pedal and lift the carpet enough to reach under and pull the kessy out. It has a lot of slack in its harness and will reach the sill for wiring.
I did not use a euro trim ring. As posted in my previous post, I used a demel to cut out the makred hole in the OE US trim ring already in the car. This saved a lot of time and trouble by not needing to dissassemble the components attached to the ring (lighter, seat heater switches, etc...) and transfer to a new ring, and it saved the need for the airbag lock and related stuff. The whole is clearly marked on the back of the ring where you need to cut, and unlike the Touareg the Phaeton it is only plastic, not wood, plastic and metal layers.
I used spokcat's harness which is awesome and saves tons of time.
I did not disconnect the batteries.
I fully installed the switch assembly 1st, and buttoned that end up so I could put the car into park and remove the key before unplugging the kessey. It still threw a few codes but not many. They were all easily cleared with a vag-com at the end.
The shifter handle is quite easy to deal with once you understand the mechanism. There is a small hook inside the handle that loops into the hole at the top of the shifter stalk. When the button is pushed in the hook lifts up on the reverse lockout. The button does lock out in a hyper extended position. If you pull it out to this position (as has been previosly posted), before removal it will remove and install without issue. If you do not or if it pops in before you get it back on, you can use a bent piece of hanger or something similar to reach inside the handle and pull the hook toward you until it locks back into the extended button position. Its requires a good deal of force, but it does happen.
I think thats it....I did a bluetooth (parrot ck3100) at the same time, tapping into the onstar wires and mic. Seems to work great.
I'll post some pics later of the start button in the dremmeled hole...
thanks again for all the info, hope mine helps as well...
dave w


----------



## Diesel GLI (Sep 19, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (davew)*

wow, an amazing write up there...
ii felt ill though watching the Phaeton be torn apart like that...
just too scary for me...


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Diesel GLI)*

It's a pretty well designed car, and for that reason, quite easy to take apart. Like any other VW product, the difference between happiness and misery is knowing exactly how to take it apart. The Phaeton Repair Manual (the Robert Bentley publication), while not perfect, provides pretty good guidance. For the Golf or Jetta, I highly recommend the printed manual from Robert Bentley (not the CD version). The printed manual has a lot of content that the CD does not include.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (davew)*


_Quote, originally posted by *davew* »_I did the whole job in just about 1 hour without rushing...

Dave:
Did you use the ground point that is specified for the keyless start? I cannot comprehend how you would have been able to access that ground point without unbolting the seat.
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
What is the torque value for the seat bolts in ft./lbs.? I can't find that anywhere in this thread.
Thanks,


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
The torque specification for the four seat retaining bolts is 40 Newton-meters - this is equal to 30 foot-pounds. Note that because these are special micro-encapsulated bolts, they can only be torqued once. The Phaeton repair manual states "All four seat bolts must first be hand-tightened, adjusting seat accordingly." I guess what they mean is that you just gently snug the bolts up, then double-check that the seat is properly sitting in the frame rails (a pretty easy check to make, because there are guide pins that will help line it up), then once you are certain you have it exactly where you want it, you make the final torque setting of the bolts.
BTW, I am absolutely certain of the correctness of the value stated in N·m, but only 99% certain that I did the conversion to foot-pounds correctly. Don, if you are reading this thread, may I trouble you to double-check the accuracy of my conversion? Many thanks,
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

I started the installation of the keyless at 8 AM this morning and had to stitch up the wounds at 5 PM just so that I could drive the car until I have the time and nerve to finish this project. 
Most everything went fine. No trim parts were broken and everything in Michael's post is 100% accurate. Yes, you better disconnect the battery as he says because when I hooked everything back up, I had almost no faults codes and those went away within 5 minutes of cycling the ignition. The cigarette lighter is the toughest part of the console installation . I managed to get everything back together in the console area just fine except the screws were NOT the right part # and I had to go to a local hardware store to get the three screws that hold the "start button" in. The screws that came in the bag labeled N-910-199-01 were too small for fastening the keyless start switch. The screws that I got appear to be the ones that mount the new trim piece on and you simply re-use the originals for that step. We need to check the part # for the 4 screws that hold the seat heat switch on as those are the ones that you need 5 more of to mount the keyless start switch and airbag switch. Unless the parts dept. simply put the wrong ones in the bag, this is an error. That was a strange and unexpected problem. (Robert: I bought you 3 screws too because you will probably get the wrong ones in that order you placed. Six cents apiece, I'll bill you later







). One more thing, putting the shift lever back on was a piece of cake as I pulled the push button as far out as I could at the beginning and that allowed it just to pop right back down with no problem at all http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . I was really dreading that, but that was my least problem.
The wires that go into terminal #31, 36, and 39 were the problems.
#31 has a metal insert in it that wont let me push the wire into the terminal. However, #32 was empty and available so I thought maybe their was a typo and it should go there. I believe #36 was CORRECT but their was an additional empty spot nearby (a wild card) it and I just couldn't trust my judgement on that so I just gave up.








By then I gave up as I could not figure out which slot the wires were to go into. 
After deliberation, I just decided to go ahead and put everything back together and wait till I get answers. I was so close yet I'm still so far away. I now have a keyless start button in the console that is not functional.
I went ahead and hooked that end up anyway.
Putting the carpet back is the hardest part of the entire job and YES I will have to eventually rip it back up again








Are all of the wire slots that are to be used supposed to be empty with no current wires already in place and with no metal inserts in them to create obstuction??? I don't see how you can place a wire into the slots unless they are empty.
Once I get this figured out, I'll just have to spend another half a day doing that part again. The ground wire was no problem.
Doing the work was challenging yet fun but this was a problem I can't work around.
Please help!



_Modified by dcowan699 at 9:27 AM 9-12-2005_


----------



## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

David you don't know how bad I feel for you. I would give anything to be there to help. Hang in there have a scotch and try and look at the big picture you will ultimately succeed and then take extra joy in having overcome this terrible trial.
Don


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

After talking to spockcat, we decided that the obstruction in slot #31 is just a wire connector that I must remove so that my wire can go into that slot. Looking at Michaels post verifies that I am counting correctly the slots because that is exactly where I wanted to put the yellow wire. (if you look at the picture of Michael placing that first wire in , it is going into slot #31 . Slot #36 , I believe, poses no problem as mine too was empty just as I see Michaels is. I counted to #36 and sure enough it was empty and available for insertion of the red wire. 




_Modified by dcowan699 at 9:30 AM 9-12-2005_


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Thanks Don. Yes, I will get this figured out and thanks for your sympathy. The only thing that worries me is messing up something that can't be reversed. If any wire in that module gets damaged or out of place, I'm screwed. However, it would take quite a bit of force to damage it but things can happen that you don't see.
I just dread the carpet removal. My hands today are cut up and sore








BTW, their is no freakin' way this can be done in one hour, hell , just the carpet moves took probably 30 minutes total.


_Modified by dcowan699 at 7:13 AM 9-10-2005_


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

GOT 'ER DONE!!!!!

Turns out after removing the tiny metal connectors out of #31 and #39 and finishing the wiring, she fired right up with no hitch... What a good night's rest will do and better lighting. Sorry for the scare and thanks for Spockcat for telling me how to remove the metal inserts. Jim , I apologize for my mistake. I think I was just getting fatiqued a little. I just happened to be one of those that had plenty of those metal inserts in the way. I also did the second attempt in about one hour as I did not have to remove the seat. I still now will have to remove my original bolts one at a time and replace them with the new ones now that I am finished. 
I also noticed my "nav acceptance screen" no longer comes on! 
Just kidding.
I did notice however that my windows only express down, and no longer express up. Michael, where can I correct that in the VAG?



_Modified by dcowan699 at 9:32 AM 9-12-2005_


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David, 
Try running the windows all the way up and down manually (holding the switch) three or four times & see if this doesn't reset them.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

You beat me to it Chris. I was just sitting down to post that it mysteriously fixed itself. I didn't do a thing other than start the engine , backed out of the garage and they worked fine. Just one of those glitches from disconnection of battery.
I'm sure I might find something else.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

As a follow up, the project has its difficulties and stressful moments but all- in -all I love the results and I'm impressed. I now believe that I can do this mod in about 6 hours or so. 
Now if we could just get our integrated phones.


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Dave,
Congrats on the completions. You _got-r-dun._ Now you know, see one , do one and teach one. Where do I come be learn? Is there CON ED credit for the class? We need to set up the FAPO ( Fellowship Academy of Phaeton Owners) A post ownership degree bestowed upon those who take it to the next level.








Regards,
Brent


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (W126C)*

Thanks! This was about as nerve racking as taking the board exam








I say that , yet, when I look back on it, it wasn't as bad as I made it sound. When you're working on such an awesome built car that is over $80K , it just adds heat to the issue at the moment.


----------



## Gobuster (May 19, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David,
Great news on completion of the project. I speak with vested interest! 
Was buried in business all weekend and finally got on line early this morning and learned of your success. Thanks for picking up the correct trim screws for me. 
Can't wait to do mine!
Rob


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (Gobuster)*

Michael,
I've now ordered 3 sets of all of the parts needed for the Keyless Start mod and in each case the part # N-910-199-01 (the screws for securing the Start/Stop switch) are wrong. This part # is giving me the screws that hold the new trim piece in.... the ones that are carefully reused totaling 8 screws. 
Plus, this caused a snaffu in my install because I had to go to a hardware store to get something that would work.
The part #*N-907-750-01* I feel is the correct part # we need for installing the start/stop switch as well as the airbag switch if one chooses to install that.
I went to my dealer today to pick up the parts for Robert (gobuster) and I saw for myself on the service techs computer this part on his screen. You can double check me but I'm 99% sure on this.
So, what I'm saying is , is that the part # in bold letters above should replace the part # on page 1 for the screws. 
P.S. A Phaeton in my dealers lot was ruined because a log truck coming down a hill lost its brakes , turned its load over and crushed 5 Jettas but only slightly crushed the Phaeton. They are trying to repair the Phaeton but I wouldn't have it. He/she should get a new one. I test drove that car a year ago!
(ouch)


_Modified by dcowan699 at 2:14 PM 9-14-2005_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David:
Please send me an email reminding me to do this in about a week, when I am back in CH and can go to the local VW dealer. I am in South Sudan right now, and there are no car dealers here. No cars either.
Michael


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I will.


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

"NEVER leave your car running with your keys still in your pocket, while letting someone else park it at a moderate distance or drive it through a conveyor style car wash. Brent told me an interesting tale of someone who did just that. The outcome was awful." 
The story came from a patient that owns a Porsche _pepper S._I have no idea if the KASSY on the Porsche is anything like the VW. All I know is the truck was a mess for a while.







David's point is a very good one and something I don't want to try to find out if the outcome would be the same on the Phaeton.
Now that I have the push button start, all I can say is WOW. This is the way it should be. Thanks to gang at Trussville for getin-r-dun. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Regards,
Brent


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (W126C)*

After doing the keyless start retrofit, I noticed I had a light buzzy rattle along the wood trim surrounding the infotainment system. I noticed it when driving along back streets that are old and need improving. It seemed to be just below the large control knob just below the screen. I simply popped the woodgrain back off and placed 4 strips of dental rope wax behind it and this seems to have stopped the noise. If you can't get dental wax strips, I suggest getting the little black, gooey, insulation strips at the local auto/body shop. They usually place this stuff along seams of body panels when reassembling a wrecked vehicle.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_the little black, gooey, insulation strips

The technical term in my line of work is "dum-dum". Honestly. And, after duct tape and zip ties, probably the most frequently used ingredient in car repairs.


----------



## dododavis (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

Question for you dcowan - If I ask you to order me EVERYTHING I need for the keyless start retrofit for my 2005 with keyless-
1. Is every piece orderable from VW
2. Total cost all in
3. Estimated time of me doing this as a relatively intelligent person, with average, but not exceptional, skills with projects like this?
Thanks


----------



## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (dododavis)*

I might be interested as well and we could do them together in the Boston area. First we do yours, and then when we get it right, we do mine.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dododavis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dododavis* »_Question for you dcowan - If I ask you to order me EVERYTHING I need for the keyless start retrofit for my 2005 with keyless-
1. Is every piece orderable from VW
2. Total cost all in
3. Estimated time of me doing this as a relatively intelligent person, with average, but not exceptional, skills with projects like this?
Thanks

Everything you need should be around $200. You shouldn't need the VW repair wires and don't order the screws mentioned at the top of this thread.. they seem to be wrong. Oh, I almost forgot, you need the 4 new bolts for the seat and that might take a little extra time for the dealer to get. The only part you can't get from your local dealer is the wiring harness provided graciously by Spockcat for only around $70 I think. He makes this harness with extreme high quality materials and will look as though it came straight from Dresden. Also, you will need to buy (3) #8 1/2 inch screws for installing the keyless start button. If you would like, I can send you those because I know exactly what they look like. It might take you all of a day as it is tedious and a little scary at times but I feel you can do it. You will need help at times lifting the seat and carpet and you may want someone handy for extra moral support







Don't rush it. Start on Saturday and if you don't get it done in one day, get a good nights rest and finish the next day. It's not like you are on a time frame or at least you shouldn't be.
I wish I could help you but if I can do it, you can. Just follow the instructions that Michael gives and you should be OK. Better yet, try to meet us at a GTG in the future and we can do this together. I bet we will meet again in the Michigan area this spring at Auburn Hills.


----------



## fly4food (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: (dododavis)*

I did it on my car and it was the fist time I did any retrofit on the Phaeton. I started on a Friday evening with installing the switch on the console, which took me 2 hours. It went without a hitch and kept my morale strong. After a good night sleep I finished the install in about 2 more hours. The only thing is take your time in locating the right conectors for those wires on the kessey.
Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (fly4food)*

FOR SALE! Keyless Start Parts
TRIM PIECE: 3D1 857 747 CG 5W8
START-STOP-SWITCH: 3D0 959 839C
VW REPAIR WIRES: 000 979 018
$150.00 US plus shipping.
You should use Spockcat's wiring harness, thus you not need the repair wires. I changed the price from the original post. I think this is more in line.
Regards,
Brent


----------



## iluvpcs (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: (W126C)*

I'll grab them, drop me an IM and lets talk


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (iluvpcs)*

Brent! Did you see this?


----------



## copernicus0001 (Nov 30, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

I haven't looked at page 1 of this thread in some time.... I see quite a few new photos and additional information regarding the retrofit...
Nice job on the write-up... 
Douglas


----------



## phaeton1990 (Mar 6, 2005)

Hello sir, Thank you for posting such fine details regarding retrofitting keyless start. I just picked up a 2006 phaeton v8 with tecknology pkg. I wonder if you can help me find out if it is possible to retrofit the new OEM intgrated blue tooth rsap and remote start. Chek this German site they show these options. http://translate.google.com/tr...r%3DI tried to order them ,but it was not available till feb., 06 and I received my car in Jan. 06. Thank you


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton1990)*

Hello Omar:
Welcome to the Phaeton forum.
I viewed that web page in the original language, and think that there are two errors - one in the content of the web page, and the other in your interpretation of it via the English translation provided by Google.
I am not aware of any support for the rSAP protocol in any Phaeton, worldwide, at this moment. I suppose it is possible that this might have been recently introduced in Europe, however, even if this is so, the technology cannot be brought to North America because the GSM frequencies are different between Europe and North America. Please refer to this post for more information about Phaeton telephony: More than you ever wanted to know about Phones in Phaetons.
Concerning the 'remote start', that is actually a parking heater, not a remote starter. The parking heater is a common option in Europe on all cars (Golf through Phaeton), but has never been offered in North America by any car company because of liability concerns. Please see this post for more information about this feature on European Phaetons: Standheizungen (Parking Heater) - OEM installation.
We also maintain a Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) for the benefit of new Phaeton owners - you may be interested in some of the topics that are covered there.
Best regards,
Michael


----------



## phaeton1990 (Mar 6, 2005)

Hello Michael,
I checked the 2006 US/Canadian Phaeton specs. It indicates availability of blue tooth rsap phone setups. My understanding of this setup, you don't have to take your cell phone out of your pocket. The blue tooth setup has a sim reader that transfer all phone contacts, data, and functions to the infotainment system vai blue tooth were it can be used from there. Incoming/outging calls can be be seen on the radio display. Inregad to the frequency, I have a TRIBAND GSM phone with a built-in blue tooth that works fine with networks world wide. I think we should investigate this setup to see if its all possible to retrofit.Thanks for letting me view the phone posts. Though it is limmiting me to the HF1000 blue tooth, Istill would like to try The OEM blue tooth . I hate the fact the I might end up with a wire behind the controler tha might be exposed, mic on the sun vissor plus no visual display on the infotainment system. Let me know what you think very challenging indeed, but worth it in the long run.

Thanks again
Omar


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (phaeton1990)*

Hi Omar:
I think you are correct, VW does offer rSAP on the Phaeton for 2006. I had a look at the VAS 5052 diagnostic scan tool at my VW dealership today, and sure enough, there is a function in there for setting up Bluetooth with rSAP, as well as a different function for setting up the Bluetooth handsfree protocol that we already knew about.
My guess, though, it that this is a bit of a Pyrrhic victory for all of us, because it will not be possible to order a 2006 Phaeton for North American delivery after Tuesday of this week (the end of February, 2006), and I have not heard of any 2006 Phaetons being delivered to NAR with this rSAP option included.
The idea of doing a retrofit is interesting, but I don't know how feasable it would be. I talked it over with the engineers in Dresden just before Christmas, and their opinion was that doing a retrofit would not be possible. I tend to trust their opinions...







If I have time, I will look into doing a transplant of a fixed phone system from one NAR Phaeton to another, but this is not high on my priority list right now.
Michael


----------



## M5forPhaeton (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Well folks...I tried to get this done today. Lots of problems. First, I've got the wrong airbag switch...so I'll have an empty hole there until I can get the right one. But that's not my issue. Everything in this write-up is correct and words like "sonofabitch" (when referring to the lighter removal) should be in bold. The part I am stuck on, and unfortunately wont even be able to get at until next week is ROUTING THAT FREAKING CABLE!. I can't figure out how you guys so easily routed the cable under that carpet. I can barely get the arm 3/4 of the way under it. 
*ANY* tip, tricks, etc. would be helpful. I'm pretty handy, so to get all the way to the KESSY, disassemble the connect and then get stuck now is very frutstrating. I tried all sorts of tricks...including but not limited to: Soft copper wires to fish with, Rolmex, coat hanger, ...help!
As always...thanks. Looks like I have to take a taxi to the airport in the morning!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (M5forPhaeton)*

First of all , I agree with the colorful word choices while routing the wire. This step would not be wise to do with your preacher/minister nearby! Basically, I would have to ask "Do you have anyone helping you by your side?". It will be easier to have someone peering from above the transmission shifter area with a hand down the side of the trim waiting to grab it and pull it up as you feed it under the carpet and push upwards the best you can. This step just goes better with four hands. It also would be handy to have a 3rd person man handling the seat carefully backwards as you separate the front carpet piece from the rear carpet piece. Make sure whoever is doing this does not break the seat positioning switches on the side as the weight of the seat would easily snap a button off and the explicitives would fly all over the room then. Getting that little extra room with the seat out of the way will allow you maximum flexibility of the carpet. We did this in Chicago on George's car and I think between Rob, Brent and myself , we fed that wire up through in less than 3 or 4 minutes as a team.
Edit: Be sure the wire is not lying against the heater elements near the front pillar channel of the seat where the front seat bolts are located! This would not be good later on for sure.
Be on the lookout for trim clips that might have fallen down alongside the trim piece. You won't get a factory snap fit if they are not repositioned back. 


_Modified by dcowan699 at 3:32 PM 2-26-2006_


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (dcowan699)*

Probably the biggest and most perplexing step of this whole procedure is putting the transmission lever back on. Please post if you have any questions about this. The transmission stalk is made up of basically two pieces: The upper 2/3 which is the part you grab and has the woodgrain, and the lower 1/3 which is a chrome piece. *Carefully insert/seat the chrome piece down into the hole that allows entrance into the shifter mechanism BEFORE placing the upper 2/3 down on top of that aforementioned chrome piece.* Be aware, the chrome piece has to be oriented in a specific direction in order for the upper portion to come down and connect with it. Practice getting your orientation on this a dozen times if necessary. Their are two plastic teets that will poke up into this upper handle section. Afterwards , give it a firm pop downwards to reattach this part. If you try to insert the whole thing down as a fully assembled piece, you run a seriously high chance of cracking the plate (which to me looks like a computer plate chip) that notifies the car as to which gear it is in. Also take note that along the metal stalk that you are sliding the handle down onto has a notch in it about 1/2 of the way down. This is where the little staple looking pin that you pulled out in the beginning of this procedure will go once you have the handle fully in place. It seems we decided to partly insert the staple in place about halfway into the handle, then slowly slide the handle down along the metal stalk until we could feel it catch into that circular slot seen on the main metal stalk . This lets you know you have gone down far enough. All I can say is BE CAREFUL!




_Modified by dcowan699 at 4:47 PM 2-26-2006_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (M5forPhaeton)*

Hi Kelly:

Don't feel bad, it *IS *difficult to get the cable properly routed under the carpet. It requires a fair bit of poking and prodding.

The way that seems to work best is as follows:

Run the cable aft along the driver side of the transmission tunnel until you reach about where the two cupholders are.
At that point, stuff the cable straight down the driver side of the transmission tunnel.
Now, shove your arm under the carpet (working inwards from the driver door aperture) and grab the cable. Route it outboard to the door sill, being very careful to avoid laying it on top of anything that would damage it, and staying well away from the PTC heater for the rear footwell. In practice, this means running it deep in the trough right behind the frame support for the front seat bolts.
Have you removed the black bezel that goes around the rear seat footwell air outlet? You need to take this bezel off to be able to lift the aft end of the driver footwell carpet up enough to let you get your arm under there.

Here are a few photos that might help provide you with an 'ah-ha!' moment. These show the work done by David C., Brent, and Robert at the Alabama get-together in October 2004. Note how the aft end of the driver footwell carpet has been lifted up - and also how the bezel surrounding the rear footwell air outlet has been removed to allow the carpet to be lifted up.

Michael


*David, Brent and Robert at work, running start button cables*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/DavidGTG3.jpg









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/StartButton.jpg

*To help you visualize the path the cable takes -*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/CableRouting1.jpg









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/CableRouting2.jpg









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/CableRouting3.jpg









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/CableRouting4.jpg


----------



## M5forPhaeton (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Ah ha!
That was the ticket! The rear air vent bezel was the devil. Thanks for the pictures, they were perfect. I've got that wire exactly as illustrated.
Very interesting though...I notices that the connector on the kessy was actually broken. As if someone had pryed it off before, but for what reason? To replace the kessy?
ANYWAY, Now...about that kessy...how do I count the wires on the connectors to find the empty (or not empty) slots.
I love this stuff.
By the way, I really appreciate the quality of this car...it's stunning how much engineering is involved in just the carpet!
Kel


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Probably the biggest and most perplexing steps of this whole procedure is putting the transmission lever back on... All I can say is BE CAREFUL!

No truer words were ever spoken. The greatest risk of breaking something is when you are trying to put the leather covered shift lever handle back on, along with the circular chrome trim bit that goes at the base of the shift lever handle. If you have any doubts at all about doing this, take your car to your VW dealer and have them re-install the handle for you - they do this all the time on Touaregs, Golfs, Jettas, etc. and the concept is the same for all of them.

The risk of damaging the sliding black plate that goes around the metal shift lever rod is very high. You need to slide the chrome base of the shift lever handle down the metal rod carefully, and position it "just right" where it meets the sliding black plastic piece shown below. If excessive force is used to re-install the leather covered shift lever handle, there is a very high probability that the sliding plastic plate will be broken. This has already happened twice, once to me when I did the install on my car, and once during an install at the Chicago GTG a few weeks ago. If the plastic plate is broken, that whole electronics assembly needs to be replaced, and it costs about $200.

The car can be driven perfectly well and perfectly safely without the leather shift lever grip installed - you just lift up on the white rod to move the car out of gear. If you encounter the slightest bit of difficulty putting the leather grip back on, *STOP*, and let your VW technician do it for you.

David knows how to put these leather grips back on, and he makes it look easy. I still can't do it myself, so I take the car back to my dealer whenever I have removed this part and let them re-install it for me.

Michael

*Be careful here!*








http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/ShiftLeverPlate.jpg


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

I have never ran it from the transmission lever towards the door as Michael just mentioned. It would seem a heck of a lot easier doing it Michaels way , especially if you have no one to help you because this eliminates the *"pushing a rope"* problem. 
Thanks for that tid-bit Michael. I guess the reason we didn't do it that way was because we were so anxious to get the Kessy end hooked up and out of the way.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (M5forPhaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M5forPhaeton* »_...I notices that the connector on the kessy was actually broken. As if someone had pryed it off before, but for what reason? To replace the kessy?

Kelly:
Have a look at the underside of your car, and see if there is any evidence of damage to the sheet metal floorpan right underneath the KESEY, as a result of either driving over a curb or improper placement of a hydraulic lift pad when the car is jacked up or placed on a hydraulic lift.
We have encountered this type of damage before - see this thread: Lifting the Phaeton on a Hydraulic Lift - Precautions.
Michael


----------



## M5forPhaeton (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Underside looks good. I now notice some torn insulation...I'm not the only one who's been in there!
Anyway, how do I count the wire holes on the 2 connectors?


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (M5forPhaeton)*

Per our phone discussion: Each wiring block has a number on each end which signifies the first and last slot number of each block. Count from either end to locate the proper wiring slot. Some of the slots are preoccupied with a connector that (if using Spockcats wiring harness) must be removed prior to placing the supplied wire. Don't forget , after reassembling the Kessy module, you will need a shop wrag to wipe the sweat off of your forehead 
Another side topic: If Rob and Brent are reading this, would you please describe your method of removing the cigarette lighter assembly as you did in Chicago. I did not actually see you do it but it seemed like a great way to do it.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Michael,
I've now ordered 3 sets of all of the parts needed for the Keyless Start mod and in each case the part # N-910-199-01 (the screws for securing the Start/Stop switch) are wrong. This part # is giving me the screws that hold the new trim piece in.... the ones that are carefully reused totaling 8 screws. 
Plus, this caused a snaffu in my install because I had to go to a hardware store to get something that would work.
The part #*N-905-942-01* I feel is the correct part # we need for installing the start/stop switch as well as the airbag switch if one chooses to install that.
I went to my dealer today to pick up the parts for Robert (gobuster) and I saw for myself on the service techs computer this part on his screen. You can double check me but I'm 99% sure on this.
So, what I'm saying is , is that the part # in bold letters above should replace the part # on page 1 for the screws. 
..........
_Modified by dcowan699 at 2:14 PM 9-14-2005_



dcowan699 said:


> *The part # for the screws that seems to be correct is in red above (part #35 of Michael's original post on this thread). Everytime I ordered part #37 (which according to the diagram appears to be the screws you would want) , the screws were too small. *
> 
> 
> 
> _Modified by dcowan699 at 5:18 PM 2-26-2006_


----------



## geowben (Jan 26, 2005)

David, how about using a shoe tree? It obviously helped on mine.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (geowben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *geowben* »_David, how about using a shoe tree? It obviously helped on mine.


----------



## M5forPhaeton (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David, thanks for the quick phone call...
IT DID THE TRICK!
Just got back from my test drive...perfect! I had a "vechicle level" shop message, which cleared. I tested all of the switches on the panel...nothing but good.
David, again, thanks for your extremely helpful phone call. For the shift lever, I did as you suggested by partially inserting the retaining clip as I nudged the lever down. Once I felt the slot hit the pin, I knew I was at the right height...the pin slid in softly.
Michael, again, thanks for the write-up. My only suggestion (at least it's where I needed help) is on counting the KESSY connector pins...the printed pin number is soo small its a joke. Doesn't matter, the work done on the write-up really doen't need improvement...I do!
Time for a Bourbon!
Yeah! No taxi in the morning to the airport!!!!


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (M5forPhaeton)*

That is GREAT!!!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (M5forPhaeton)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M5forPhaeton* »_ I had a "vehicle level" shop message, which cleared. 

Ah-ha... That is significant, because it implies that the vehicle power supply battery got low during the process. When you drive to the airport tomorrow, leave the big electrical consumers (rear window defrost, seat heat, rear footwell PTC heaters) turned off, to allow the car to recharge the vehicle power supply battery. This is to prevent you from needing to take a taxi BACK from the airport when you return...








As long as your drive is 10 miles or so, and you let the battery fully regain its charge, you should encounter no problems. I'm not sure if you have a NAPA Battery Maintainer for a Phaeton or not, but, that is an absolute *MUST HAVE* tool if you do any kind of maintenance or modification work on a Phaeton. It is exactly the same battery maintainer that the VW dealerships have, and hook up to the left battery of the Phaeton every time it comes into the shop for any kind of service work - even an oil change.
Michael


----------



## M5forPhaeton (Jan 26, 2006)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks for the tip. I'll make sure the big ticket electric items are off. I'll check out the battery maintainer too!
Best,
Kelly


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (M5forPhaeton)*

OK. To kill off the rear footwell PTC heaters, press the CLIMATE button, then press the 'other functions' soft-key, then press the big round button in once, so that the text changes to 'Rear Seat Air Conditioning OFF'.
That setting will not persist after each drive cycle, and, if you have any doubt, you can set things back to normal by just pressing the 'AUTO' button and the 'Set all zones to driver preference' button (the button with the picture of 4 people on it).
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Here's an illustration of the front seat bolt part number from the parts catalog. David, does that agree with your experience? My dealer has ordered these bolts for me in the past and they have fit OK.

Michael


*Bolts for Front Seat Retention - 4 are needed*
These are 'use once then throw away' bolts - they *MUST *be replaced with new ones.









http://i979.photobucket.com/albums/ae275/Paneuropean/SeatAttachmentBolt.jpg


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Yes, Michael. I agree with that part #. I have not had any problems with that phase of the installation. Has someone been having trouble with that part # too?


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Michael,
Those are exactly the ones I've ordered previously.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*keyless start installed*

My keyless start was installed today. For others who have it, I have a question. I know the key for the airbag is a dummy key. However, should the ring around illuminate like the others, cause mine does not. Some of the workmanship could have been a little better.
Since I finally got the keyless entry to work after what seems like forever, I was able to confidently have the keyless start installed. When I turn off the car, there is a message when I open the door on the driver information screen ""Lock: Press/Hold start/stop" with the picture of a steering wheel. Michael says it's because I have newer software, but it comes across as odd to me.
I also had the emergency triangle installed as well as the rear bumper protector in the trunk. I was going to go with the rear fog lights and 4 position light switch, but I do not want to loose the ability to lock out the trunk or loose the side reflector lights in the rear light assemblies for night driving, so not worth it to me.


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: keyless start installed (dzier)*

Congrats David on the install. As far as the message is concerned, I get that too and I just ignore it. It has a functional reason for it in that it instructs you as to how to lock and unlock the steering wheel. Like I said, I don't fiddle with that option at all..... I just enjoy the keyless start aspect of it. 
Again, congratulations on your accomplishment.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: keyless start installed (dzier)*

Now that I went back through Michael's great post on the installation of keyless entry, I have the dummy air bag off lock that was glued in place, and not the special ordered part from Germany. Therefore, there would be no electrical connection to light up around it like the Keyless start button, lighter/flashlight and mirror knob. It is cool when the start button lights up when you open the door. Really really cool at night.
Going back through the directions, it is a very intricate process. They (Libertyville IL VW set up by Chris at Ed Murphy VW - where it was supposed to be done initially except for a snag) did the procedure in relative short time. I am assuming they have done this before since I got my car back so quickly. The few small craftsmanship issues are nit pics relative to the coolness of the having the start button. Most would probably not even notice... but I am such a detailed person I drive myself crazy sometimes!!! (engineer here)


_Modified by dzier at 4:14 AM 3-9-2006_


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: keyless start installed (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_Congrats David on the install. As far as the message is concerned, I get that too and I just ignore it. It has a functional reason for it in that it instructs you as to how to lock and unlock the steering wheel. Like I said, I don't fiddle with that option at all..... I just enjoy the keyless start aspect of it. 
Again, congratulations on your accomplishment.

So what do you do, hold down the button when you turn off the car. Or turn it off then press and hold the button (with foot off brake - otherwise, car starts again...) I am just trying to UNDERSTAND the message.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: keyless start installed (dzier)*

David Z:
The start button works like this (very simplified summary):
*To start -* just jab the button all the way down. You don't have to hold it, it works like the big red button the guy has in the "Un-pimp ze auto" commercials (see here: *Un*-Pimp My Ride).
*To stop -* depends on exactly what you want to do. The button has several detents. If you just want to turn the engine off, but leave all the electrical power (terminal 15) on - the equivalent of just turning the key counter-clockwise a tiny bit on a conventional car - then press the button down to the second detent. The engine will stop, but the 'ignition' circuit will still be on. If you want to shut the vehicle down and get out, just jab the button down all the way to the third detent, same as you would do to start the car.
*To lock the steering column:* It's automatic, don't even think about it. When you get out of the vehicle and lock the doors, the car will also lock the steering column at the same time. That's why you don't get the message.


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Phaetonian)*

Libertyville VW did mine with the help of Chris at Ed Murphy. I am not sure why Ed Murphy decided not to do it, but I am not sure of the legal reasons. It is better if VW does the work and mods for warranty reasons. I am not sure why they would tell you to do otherwise, except, it is not easy and the technician may not want/be able to do it confidently. Perhaps VW should have a Phaeton seminar for Phaeton technicians!!


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: keyless start installed (dzier)*

I understand that the airbag key will not illuminate at all since this is a dummy. The lighter and side mirror control knob illuminate around each. The Keyless button ring illuninates when I unlock/open the door. The start/stop lettering does not illuminate where other lettering/images illuminate for the side mirrors/seat heaters/coolers. The ring around the start button remains illuminated while in use/at night. Is the start/stop notation not subject to illumination? From this thread, it looks like there is no illumination behind the lettering, but I am just double checking.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: keyless start installed (dzier)*

David:
The lettering on the words 'Start - Stop' does not illuminate, it is paint, not transparent.


----------



## theyoungest (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

How much did all of the parts cost?


----------



## theyoungest (Apr 9, 2006)

*Re: (W126C)*

Do you still have the startstop setup I will take it if so


----------



## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (theyoungest)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theyoungest* »_How much did all of the parts cost?


About $200 to $250. If you crack the sliding plate in the tranny gear selector box, add $300 to $400 more


----------



## Four Speed Fox (May 16, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_
About $200 to $250. If you crack the sliding plate in the tranny gear selector box, add $300 to $400 more









Take a tip from me: *Let the dentists put the shifter back in. Unlike me, they know what they are doing!*


----------



## jimay (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

I finally got mine installed. I gave up waiting for a day I wasn't going to be busy and had the dealer do it here in Minneapolis during some other maintenance.
The dealer's work appears to be perfect. They mentioned that the trim piece has a funky fit, which this post discusses. Other than that, they were so pleased with it that they will be adding a kit to the W-12 on their used lot.
So far, I've tried just about every way of using it and found out some interesting things.
1. You have to be in park and step on the brake to start the car. You can push the button and then step on the brake if you want. Just don't wait too long. 
2. Pushing the button to stop the car does nothing if the car is in gear or in motion.
3. You can't stop the engine in neutral.
4. The trim ring lights up briefly when you push the button, otherwise it's off in the night lighting.
5. You can start the car with your key in your pocket, put the key down outside the car, then drive the car away. The car will shut off normally when you stop it. (I did this on purpose to see how serious they are about having a key in the car at all times). The dash will tell you the key is not present. You probably don't want to do this unless your starting and stopping places are one in the same.
6. Once the car is stopped, you get prompted to press and hold the start button to lock the car. When you do, it appears to go into the first "accessory" mode that preceeds startup. (similar to the first key position in an older car, where the accessories all come on.) It didn't lock the car, unless it happened after I walked away.
7. It's strange getting in the car and not fiddling with keys. I push the start button and put on my seat belt while the car starts itself. This is almost exactly like the US B1 Bomber. The first crewmember up the ladder pushes a big red button on the stairs and the plane automatically preflights itself while the crew buckles themselves in their seats. By the time you're buckeled in, you're ready to fly. It's pretty much the same thing, except my Phaeton cost me $283,068,000.00 (us) less than a B1 would have cost with the same feature!
8. The lawyer buttons on the infotainment display still work the same as if you have a key.
9. Stopping the car is simlarly odd. I keep putting my fingers in the empty ignition before I remember there is no key.
The dealer was very reasonable on the installation price and got the work done within a day.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (jimay)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimay* »_...Once the car is stopped, you get prompted to press and hold the start button to lock the car...

That is true, but you can ignore that prompt. If you don't lock the doors when you walk away, the car will lock the steering wheel by itself after it detects that the key has been missing from the cabin for a couple of minutes.
If you do lock the doors, the car will lock the steering wheel at the same time. If for some reason you don't want the steering wheel to lock up (e.g. car is on hoist for service), you just press the button very gently, and the engine stops but the electrical power remains on.
Michael


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (jimay)*

jimay-
How much did the dealership charge to install the keyless start? I was hoping to install it during a Phaeton get together with help from others, but my Houston GTG never happened in October and I don't know when another opportunity will come up.
Thanks.
Robert


----------



## jimay (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (rscharf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_How much did the dealership charge to install the keyless start? 


The dealer charged about 3-4 hours at their shop rate, then gave me a little discount because they found it a personally interesting job. It seemed like a bargain considering it would have taken me all day to do the same thing.


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (jimay)*

I'm having mine installed tomorrow by a dealer with prior start button experience (thanks vwtdipwr!).
I've been sitting on the box for several months... looking forward to it!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (jimay)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimay* »_The dealer charged about 3-4 hours at their shop rate...

That sounds very reasonable, considering the amount of disassembly involved. I've done the job a few times now, and I think I would need to be going at 100% productivity full time to get it all done in 3 to 4 hours. The biggest time-consumer is removing the driver seat and lifting the carpet - that is a major PITA.
Michael


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (jimay)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jimay* »_ The trim ring lights up briefly when you push the button, otherwise it's off in the night lighting..

This is interesting - my trim ring lights up when I open the door, not just when pushed, and stays on at night (I guess it could be on in the day, just never bothered to notice). I had mine done at Libertyville VW in Illinois, North of Chicago earlier this year. I wonder why the difference? (Aside - I complained to Michael when the faux airbag did not light up... I liked the lit ring so much I wanted it all to light!)


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (dzier)*

We discussed a while ago here in the forum the fact that the keyless start kit that OEMpl.us sells (and that I am having installed tomorrow) comes with the full airbag connector ---it is a big yellow connector.
I suppose if the yellow connector were to be hooked up, the ring might light up.
However, Paneuropean advised (and I wholeheartedly agree) that the european keyswitch and its yellow connector may be incompatible with NAR cars... and that there is no non-destructive way of testing this hypothesis.
Since guaranteed functionality of the airbag system is more valued than ring lights... the yellow connector shall remain, alas, unplugged.








(glad this came up... otherwise I might have forgotten to tell the mechanic tomorrow to NOT plug the plug)


----------



## jimay (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Itzmann)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Itzmann* »_We discussed a while ago here in the forum the fact that the keyless start kit that OEMpl.us sells (and that I am having installed tomorrow) comes with the full airbag connector ---it is a big yellow connector.
I suppose if the yellow connector were to be hooked up, the ring might light up.


The guys who put mine in said there wasn't any place to plug it in to. I was going to ask them to clip the switch leads and leave the lighting leads intact in the plug. 
Make sure you have the right screws for the two switches. I got the wrong screws twice with my kit. I had the dealer put it in, so they tossed the ones I got with the kit and used the right ones.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (jimay)*

There is no connection (physical, schematic, or design) between the red ring around the start button and the 'airbag off' light that illuminates when the airbag is turned off on the ROW spec cars.
Rich provides the airbag electrical switch that holds the key cylinder for the SOLE purpose of providing a military-spec way of holding the key cylinder. NAR spec cars do not have any connector in the main wiring harness to plug that electrical switch assembly into. Furthermore, the only illumination that exists over on the airbag keyswitch side of things is illumination of the word "airbag off' if the passenger airbag is, in fact, turned off. Because we have *absolutely no way* of enabling this passenger airbag off via key switch feature on North American cars, it appears to me to be pointless to try and hook up any of the electrical connectors on that yellow airbag component.
As for the red trim ring around the start button itself - I don't have my Phaeton handy right now (I am driving the dealership service loaner one, which does not have a start button), but to the best of my knowledge, that red ring lights up when the car is 'awake', so you can find it and start the car. I can't recall if it remains lit when you are driving the car. There is probably some logic in the system that turns the red ring off unless the transmission is in either Park or Neutral, because the pushbutton is normally not used except when the transmission is in one of those two positions. But, that is a guess.
Michael


----------



## dzier (Jun 19, 2004)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ There is probably some logic in the system that turns the red ring off unless the transmission is in either Park or Neutral, because the pushbutton is normally not used except when the transmission is in one of those two positions. But, that is a guess.
Michael

My ring stays on even in D at night. I have not paid much attention to day time, so i assume it stays on all the time, but wil double check.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (dzier)*

*Archival Note:*
Something to be aware of if you install Keyless Start: Just in case you were wondering, it is possible to have the alarm go off while you are driving...
Thanks to Noah for this 'head's up'.
Michael


----------



## maverixz (Feb 16, 2005)

The Keyless start is the only add-on I am looking at investing in. I will have to find out if the dealership around this side of the boonies would do it for me and what they'll charge.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (maverixz)*

Malcolm,
If you get the parts and want to come down this way one weekend, we can do it together -- you get to do the wiring to the connector...


----------



## noahas (Dec 7, 2005)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_Malcolm,
If you get the parts and want to come down this way one weekend, we can do it together -- you get to do the wiring to the connector...









Make sure that you add the metal coat hanger to the part list for fishing the wire under the carpet. I think we came up with a few other "short cuts" but my memory is failing on that.


----------



## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (chrisj428)*

We had the keyless start installed last week by the dealer and it is a great addition to the Phaeton! 
Did anyone else have the ignition key lose its settings - in our case, after the keyless installation, the #1 key thought it was the #2 key, and there are changes in other settings (for example, some car doors unlock when you touch the handle, but not the driver's door). 
I'll take the car back on Monday, and they will check with the VAG-COM tool. 
Any ideas would be helpful.


----------



## kgclark75 (Apr 14, 2006)

*Re: (Jim_CT)*

How much did the dealer charge you? Had they ever done or heard of this mod?
I'd really like to add KS to my car, but am very nervous about screwing something up if I try it myself.


----------



## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: (kgclark75)*

Kevin - I followed PanEuropean's suggested method; that is to discuss with the service tech first, pay normal hourly shop rates, and leave the car for a few days. 
In my case, controller 518 had failed. Replacing this controller requires doing most of the keyless start install work procedure.
They had not done this mod but were interested in doing so.
Jim


----------



## nywiley (Apr 2, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Hi,
It appears all of the photos for the Phaeton keyless start upgrade have disappeared. Any idea where copies of these pictures could be found?
Thanks!


----------



## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (nywiley)*

Hello William and welcome to the Vortex! The photos are 'between hosts' at the moment, but should be up and running again shortly...


----------



## pretendcto (Nov 23, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (nywiley)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nywiley* »_Hi,
It appears all of the photos for the Phaeton keyless start upgrade have disappeared. Any idea where copies of these pictures could be found?
Thanks!

There was a recent thread on this and I posted a PDF containing the keyless start thread including photos.
Uggh, need photos for keyless start installation 
Here is the download link from the above thread. Coincidentally, this PDF is this thread you are currently reading as of March 2006.
Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons 



_Modified by pretendcto at 6:10 PM 1-21-2008_


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (pretendcto)*

Try looking at page 1 of this thread again...






















Many, many thanks to Rich at OEM Plus who has done a HUGE amount of work behind the scenes to get a hosting site up and running to allow me to re-host all of the photos I have posted over the years.
It will take me some time to get all the missing links updated. In the meantime, if you find a thread with missing photos (red X marks), just tag a post on the very end of it with the words "Missing Photos" in the body of the text, and I will give that thread priority during the restoration process.
Michael


----------



## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

It is my pleasure Michael! Anything I can do to help the community.


----------



## BoneRep1125 (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (OEMpl.us)*

Why do none of my local techs seem to know anything about keyless start here in the DC area??? Has anyone around DC had this mod installed at a dealer or done it themselves?? Help...I bought the kit but now I cannot find anyone to do the install...


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (BoneRep1125)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BoneRep1125* »_Why do none of my local techs seem to know anything about keyless start here in the DC area??? Has anyone around DC had this mod installed at a dealer or done it themselves?? Help...I bought the kit but now I cannot find anyone to do the install...

Fred,
It's time-consuming, but honestly not terribly difficult to do. If you're ever in the Chicagoland area, I'll be happy to assist!


----------



## Tampa (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_
Fred,
It's time-consuming, but honestly not terribly difficult to do. If you're ever in the Chicagoland area, I'll be happy to assist!
 Tampa is quite nice in the spring. An interest in installing mine?


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Tampa)*

Central Florida Eurocars in Lakeland FL installed my keyless start and did a good job at very modest cost. I installed Rich's OEMpl.us's kit.
Recommended.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Tampa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tampa* »_Tampa is quite nice in the spring. An interest in installing mine?

Sure! I fly United Economy Plus.


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_Sure! I fly United Economy Plus. 

How dare you offer to fly without me!








Regards,
Brent


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_How dare you offer to fly without me!









My assistant, however, won't settle for anything less than FlexJet.


----------



## OEMplus.com (May 27, 2003)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (chrisj428)*

Nice recovery Chris.


----------



## W126C (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_My assistant

Colleague, might be a bit more PC.

_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_won't settle for anything less than FlexJet.

What I have in mind, ie.








Also needed is something like this. Redheads can always full in as a substitute.








And no, I'm not a snob because I said I would drive a Bentley.








Regards,
Brent


----------



## Tampa (Sep 2, 2007)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Itzmann)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Itzmann* »_Central Florida Eurocars in Lakeland FL installed my keyless start and did a good job at very modest cost. I installed Rich's OEMpl.us's kit.
Recommended.

Thanks, I'll give Eurocars a try prior to arranging the Gulfstream and Monz Venus flight attendents.


----------



## Itzmann (Jan 16, 2006)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (Tampa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tampa* »_Thanks, I'll give Eurocars a try prior to arranging the Gulfstream and Monz Venus flight attendents.

Ahh, yes, and I should mention I was referred to the Lakeland dealer for this start button installation by *vwtdipwr*, a fellow vortex participant and Boca Raton GTG-participant who also had it done there.
2 hrs. work in my case, your mileage may vary / Ask for Travis and Dan. If memory serves, Travis is the service adjuster and Dan is the technician.
By the way, the two known installations at CFE were a 04/w12 and a 05/v8. One kit was from OEMpl.us and one was from Spockat. Neither one ended up lighting the ring around the pushbutton under any circumstance. Apparently other cars do. No big deal, but it would be interesting to hear how it goes for you.


_Modified by Itzmann at 8:28 PM 1-29-2008_


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (W126C)*


_Quote, originally posted by *W126C* »_Colleague, might be a bit more PC.

If you're gonna start bringing _that_ in here, I'm leaving.








And, the irony that you followed it up requesting redheads isn't lost on me, either.


----------



## heliflint (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael,
During our (your) work on my '04 Phaeton last weekend we noticed that there was a keyless antenna behind the overhead OnStar switch. Even though I do not have the Keyless Entry option I have observed something that makes me re-ask the question about installing the keyless start switch. If I unlock the car with the keyfob but do not insert the key in the ignition, I still get the Welcome infotainment gretting and warning. I clear those screens, and noticed that the vehicle has recognized my key profile, specific to that key even though I have not inserted it yet. It seems that all that is needed is for me to start the car. If I installed the pushbutton start switch kit, it would seem to me that the car should start without the key in the ignition. Are we 100% sure that the vehicle has to have the keyless entry option to install the keyless start switch?


----------



## heliflint (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (heliflint)*

One more point, when I unlock the car with my second key, which I have programed with my wife's profile, the infotainment system recognizes that specific key without inserting the key in the ignition. I notice too that all the functions in the car work (except the high load items like the AC) before I insert the key.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (heliflint)*

Joseph,
The vehicle differentiates between the two keys when you use the remote to unlock the door. It has a rolling-code transponder in it and the system keeps track of which code belongs to whom. 
The Infotainment system _will_ power up as soon as the doors are opened and allow you access to entertainment (and some programming) functions under the assumption that you might just want to bask in the dulcet tones eminanting from the audio system. If you want more than that, it knows you'll start the car.


----------



## heliflint (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (chrisj428)*

So, does that mean the car will start with the push button kit even though the keyless entry is not installed? Do we know for sure?


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (heliflint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heliflint* »_So, does that mean the car will start with the push button kit even though the keyless entry is not installed? Do we know for sure?

No. Without the KESEY control module (keyless access), a pushbutton start installation is not possible.


----------



## heliflint (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (chrisj428)*

where is the kessey control module located. I believe mine has one.


----------



## heliflint (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (heliflint)*

Pardon my manners. Sorry to hear about your back. Is your phaeton still for sale?


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (heliflint)*

It is part of the Start/Access control module, located under the carpeting just below the dead pedal on the driver's side (on LHD vehicles). The module also performs other functions such as reading the immobilizer chip in the key and recognizing which key belongs to whom, so the mere physical presence of the module doesn't automatically indicate you have the functionality. 
Without the small black pushbuttons on the door handles, the vehicle will not be able to be retrofitted with the pushbutton start.


----------



## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (heliflint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heliflint* »_Pardon my manners. Sorry to hear about your back. Is your phaeton still for sale?

Not to worry -- thank you for asking...I am presently awaiting a referral for an MRI scan next week. It has been getting better, albeit much more slowly than in previous incidents (perhaps I'm getting older???







) As for the Phaeton, yes, it remains for sale. While I know the asking price might seem high on initial inspection, the vehicle has nearly every euro modification performed on it already and -- as always -- everything's negotiable.


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (heliflint)*


_Quote, originally posted by *heliflint* »_where is the kessey control module located. I believe mine has one.

It's under the driver footwell. The correct name for the controller is "access and start control module". All Phaetons have one, but there are two different types of controllers, one for vehicles with the "Keyless Entry and Start System" (KESSY), and one for vehicles without.
If the car does not have keyless entry, it is impractical to try and retrofit keyless start. In addition to needing a new controller 05, you would need to replace all the exterior door handles (they are antennas), add numerous internal antennas, lay new wiring harnesses, etc... thousands and thousands of dollars worth of parts, and that does not consider labour.
Michael


----------



## HunterST (Dec 11, 2008)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

I'm happy to report that I completed this mod today! I started a little after noon yesterday intending to install a DICE Iphone unit, and got carried away - finished it up this morning. Kudos to Michael for the fantastic writeup, and everyone else who has contributed to comments. 
Far and away the hardest parts (for me) were:
1) removal of the 12V socket. old spilled coffee didn't help.
2) lifting up the carpet and routing the wire from the kessey module to the shifter
3) dealing with the shift handle
4) reading the tiny numbers on the kessey module plug.

I was overeager and didn't read all the comments in this thread before I began, so I didn't know the trick about pullling out the shifter button first. Michael, if you're reading this, I humbly suggest you edit your post to include this - I spent hours on this alone. I ended up using sticky duck tape to get the button out, then skinny strips of duck tape on the sides of the button so I could pull out while holding the handle upside-down to get the lever inside to flop into position... some of you know exactly what I'm talking about. 
Otherwise it was very straightforward. I wouldn't say easy, but for anyone mechanically inclined it is a fun and rewarding project. The kit from oempl.us contained everything I needed, except for tools and one zip-tie (for the kessey module plug). 
Strangely, after I was done my button would only start the car, not stop it. I had to put my key in and turn it off several times - I think that was while the "level fault workshop" error was still displaying on the screen. Since that went away (4-5 power cycles followed by a few figure-8's in an empty parking lot), the button seems to be working fine. 
I love it!


----------



## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael. I'm a new kid on the block. Bought a 2004 V8. A clarifying question. Based on your initial post, if my car does not have keyless entry I cannot retrofit keyless start - correct?


----------



## murphybaileysam (Dec 29, 2005)

*Re: Retrofitting Keyless Start to North American Phaetons (madreg98)*

You are correct sir!


----------



## remrem (Jan 20, 2008)

*Remote Start Safety Issue?*

I don't know if anyone here has tried to take the next step and modify their keyless start feature into a REMOTE start, or if it's even possible. But, just in case I wanted to share this. I read the following in the local paper yesterday, and just wanted to make sure our forum members are aware:

_Police are trying to determine whether a Palm Beach County woman's death from carbon monoxide poisoning may have been caused by a keyless car left running in an adjoining garage.

The body of Chasity Sunshine Lee Glisson, 29, was found Thursday night in her townhouse near Boca Raton, according to the Sun-Sentinel. Her boyfriend, 40-year-old Timothy Maddock, was also found in the house, groggy from inhaling carbon monoxide levels that were 150 percent higher than what are considered dangerous, according to Palm Beach County Fire-Rescue officials. Maddock is still in intensive care.

Glisson's dog, Primo, was also found inside the house, and it later had to be euthanized.

Detectives found Glisson's 2006 Lexus in the garage -- not running -- but have impounded it as part of their investigation into her death.

Police haven't said what model Lexus Glisson drove or where the fob that starts it was found. Also unknown is whether any gas was found in the tank. If none was found it could support the theory that the car was running for some time before it finally ran out of fuel and stopped running, but not before filling Glisson's home with the toxic odor.

Experts say distracted drivers can easily leave a keyless car running for hours, and if it's left in an attached garage, the results can be fatal.

Though figures on carbon monoxide deaths caused by keyless cars aren't available, the experts say the technology that makes starting your car convenient could be fatal.

"It's an indication of a larger concern about the growing complexity of motor vehicles," Paul Green, a professor at University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute, told the Sun-Sentinel. "We made a simple task potentially more complicated."

Glisson's death is still under investigation._


----------



## dhatwood (Nov 26, 2007)

*interested*

is your car also a 4 seater?mileage,? options?
if you ever get interested in selling please reach out to me, let's talk.


----------



## dhatwood (Nov 26, 2007)

*auto start*

in an old thread that i believe i wrote? i asked about installing an auto start in the phaeton and 
Micheal(pan european) mentioned that the electronics in the car are much to complex to add the auto start
without difficulty.


----------



## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

The remote auto start feature on my pickup only runs for 20 minutes, then shuts off. I think others are similar, but don’t think that is what this article is getting at. 

To me this article looks like journalism speculating on something they have no evidence to prove. How is it one would be more prone the leave a car running if it’s keyed or keyless? Let me get this straight, professor Green is postulating that inattentive drivers are more likely to not leave their car running in the garage if it used a key. I suppose that would be true it say maybe a house key was also included on the same keychain. I know I don’t keep house keys and car keys/fob s on the same ring. 

If someone is so inattentive as to not know if they have turned there car off before existing, they are probably a danger driving. Also, home carbon monoxide detectors aren’t that expensive (less than $50 at Costco)… I just checked/tested mine the other day. Maybe I should put another one out in the garage just in case.

Oh yeah, I should probably add that the keyless start is still probably my favorite mdoficiation to date. :thumbup:


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

For those trying to assess if this is worth it. 

My technician charged me five hours of work to install the Start/Stop switch. It was his first time doing so, but he is very proficient. 

If only the lawyer lobby wasn't so loony we could have had this from the get-go.


----------



## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

5 hours, Wow! Do you have to pay for his training too?  
I'm sure he did an excellent job!


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

steveskinr said:


> My technician charged me five hours of work to install the Start/Stop switch. It was his first time doing so, but he is very proficient.


 If it was the first time he did the job, 5 hours is reasonable.

We had a big owner GTG in Chicago quite a few years ago, and the fastest time recorded for installing keyless start was two very experienced owners (both dentists, in fact) who got the job done in 2 hours, working as a team.

So, for a skilled technician who is doing it for the first time, 5 hours is not bad at all. If I had to install one tomorrow, my guess is that it would take me all of a morning or an afternoon, and I have installed more than a few of these at GTGs.

Remember, this is not a VW documented procedure, and it involves quite a bit of assembly and quite a bit of picky, precision work.

Michael


----------



## racefaith (Mar 18, 2009)

*Had mine done in 3 hours*

My local tech did mine in 3 hours which was his first one. He also had jerry-rig his own wiring harness becuase the kit from OEM did not include it!!! I think he said he used a harness from some system in a Passat. He is a great guy and a bit of a wonk so he took it on as a challenge. He felt bad that after being charged by OEM $700 and then waiting over 3 months for the part, he took it upon himself to build the thing at home and did not charge me the hours.... In the end, very poor experience with OEMplus but good one from my tech. Option is a must once you have it on any car. Only could be better with remote start!


----------



## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

Mine took a little over 8 hours. Three hours drive to Chicago, two hours hanging out with Chris, and three hours back.  


I don't recall Chris's friends name, but she had small hands and make short work out of the wiring connections. I was delegated to the grunt work like moving the seat, threading the wires and hold the carpet out of the way. On a couple steps it helps to have an extra set of hands. :thumbup:


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

The biggest determinant of time required to install a start button is whether or not the person doing the work has done it before.

Michael


----------



## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

So Steve, if Mac does mine in 3 hours I guess I owe you and your wife dinner?


----------



## lyymdusa (Jan 6, 2011)

OEMPLUS.com has a kit for $330.00 
Worth it? 
http://oemplus.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=157


----------



## jhiggins (May 29, 2011)

*What Mpls dealership did your push button start modification?*

What dealership did you work with on the push-button start modification and where did you obtain your parts?


----------



## jhiggins (May 29, 2011)

*What Mpls dealership did your push button start modification?*



jimay said:


> I finally got mine installed. I gave up waiting for a day I wasn't going to be busy and had the dealer do it here in Minneapolis during some other maintenance.
> The dealer's work appears to be perfect. They mentioned that the trim piece has a funky fit, which this post discusses. Other than that, they were so pleased with it that they will be adding a kit to the W-12 on their used lot.
> So far, I've tried just about every way of using it and found out some interesting things.
> 1. You have to be in park and step on the brake to start the car. You can push the button and then step on the brake if you want. Just don't wait too long.
> ...



Which dealership did this modification for you in the Twin Cities and where did you obtain your parts?


----------



## madreg98 (Jun 1, 2009)

*josh's effort*


----------



## jimay (Aug 1, 2006)

*What Dealership*

Westside VW. It was the used car shop across the street from the regular dealership.


----------



## kend414 (Feb 10, 2009)

*Nice install- no airbag keyswitch*

I really like this install by Powerdubs... 
http://s164.photobucket.com/albums/u26/powerdubs/?action=view&current=PushStart.jpg 
if that link doesn't work, try this 
http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u26/powerdubs/PushStart.jpg?t=1306297907


----------



## Cats_Eye (Jul 14, 2012)

I was thinking of performing this mod right after I purchase a used phaeton. Does anyone have access to the photos? The pdf cant be downloaded and the servers with the archives are down. I'd be very grateful to see the pics to determine if I can actually pull this mod off.


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

We are hoping that Michael (PanEuropean, forum moderator) still has the photos in his archives, although he is otherwise occupied at the moment.

You can rummage among some small unlabelled versions of the photos cached on Google Images. Try these (there are some duplicates):

Batch #1

Batch #2

Batch #3

Batch #4

Hover over each image for a slightly larger version. You'll have to PrtScr or copy to save any you want, obviously the originals aren't there if you click Google.

Please post Michael a 'photo re-host' request in the sticky thread at the front of the Forum, to see if he will be able to replace the missing photos in due course.

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## Cats_Eye (Jul 14, 2012)

Hey Guys,
Steve just sent me a copy of the PDF of the retrofit. I've hosted it on my dropbox so if anyone would like to DL it here is the link. 


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ijks0x4ci..._Instructions_-_Keyless_Stop-Start_System.pdf


Ken


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Paximus said:


> We are hoping that Michael (PanEuropean, forum moderator) still has the photos in his archives, although he is otherwise occupied at the moment....


 All the photos have now been re-hosted. 

Michael


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Tiptronic sensor*

I was doing a modification to my phaeton that required the removal of the shifter and bezel area. As a result when reinstalling the shifter I broke the piece that everyone speaks about in half. I have since glued it back together, but I think I'm missing something. The piece just sits loosely over the electronics board. It has some slots but I don't see what they go into. Am I missing another piece that sits blow the magnetic plastic piece? 

It also has some notches inside the hole area, but that doesn't seem to do anything special. 

Help,
Ernie O


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Shift lever plastic piece*

Does anyone know what the name of the shift lever part, that one should never break is called? I can't find it anywhere. It's part of the triptronic piece that slides over the circuit board. 

Ernie O


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Ernie,

These are the parts that can be ordered. If it's not there you can try a dealer, but I do not think they have any further parts lists breakdowns. Other than that it's down to the spare parts suppliers and break up another unit (see my recent post).

Cheers,
Chris


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Parts list*

Thanks Chris for the blowup of the parts. The problem is that I can't find the name for the part number 8, the sliding plate. And furthermore, I can't see how the plate attaches. According to mine it looks like it just sits on top of the circuit board. But that can't be right.

I can't get my key out, as the indicator says the car is not in park. Would this plate be the culprit or is it the solenoid I keep reading about?

Secondly, the chrome part of the shifter has 3 notches at the base, but there is no use for those notches that I see.


Ernie O.


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*broken shifter mechanism*

This is what I broke and glued back together. But does this just sit through the shifter and on top of the circuit board? What are those notches for? And is it missing another piece?


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Ernie,

Part no. 8 is called, creatively, 'Frame with Plate' and is 3D0 713 633A and lists at around $160 plus tax. It comprises the assembly shown below.

Chris



*3D0 713 633A*









image via allegro.pl


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*Frame and Plate*

Where can I get this for $160.00. The best I could find was $290.00 from Jim Eliis VW Parts.

BTW, I found all the pieces. The plate rides on a frame, that glides along the circuit board. The frame had also broke in half and fell in and around the shifter. I have successfully glued all the pieces back together, but don't hold out much hope for a long time repair, because of the intensity of the shifter.

What about the leather shifter, where can I get that and how much? I broke the chrome cap trying to lock it in place.

Ernie O.


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

I converted the European list price of £104.18, but in UK we actually pay that plus 20% Value Added Tax, which totals $200.

I apologise if I suggested the wrong list price. It does sound too cheap for the Phaeton.

Chris


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

*One coming*

Got a full piece, electronics and all from Germany, $110 with shipping. Won't brake that again. 

Ernie O


----------



## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

anyone have any idea where to buy this part for less than 290 from the dealer? Thanks 



Jordan


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

Do you need the plate the part that holds the plate or the part with the ribbon cable? 

Ernie O.


----------



## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

My circuit board is fried. And the magnet on the sliding clip is disintegrating. I thought it was the whole part all together? 

Jordan


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

Yes it is a whole part, circuit board, magnet and the holder that slides on the circuit board and holds the magnet. 

I am putting one on ebay, circuit board and reparied magnet, but no holder for sale. That might meet your needs. 

It will be up later today. I also have a set of wood trim (without cracks) on ebay for sale. 

Ernie O


----------



## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Link? 


Jotdan


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121127036391?item=121127036391&viewitem=&vxp=mtr 

Here you go, I also have the wood trim for sale, if yours is cracked.


----------



## pdejong0 (May 16, 2011)

ernieo said:


> Got a full piece, electronics and all from Germany, $110 with shipping. Won't brake that again.
> 
> Ernie O


Hello Ernie,

Please advise, by reply or by PM, where (www site?) you found the complete part for $110 including shipping. I would purchase your used and repaired part, except when I managed to break mine... I found that someone had previously done a similar repair (using some kind of plastic welding plus an epoxy or glue overlay).... and it broke in exactly the same place that it was previously repaired. I would prefer a new part, with the original mechanical strength of the sliding plastic component.

Many thanks,

Peter

p.s. where are you in Texas?... it may be a small world, but Texas sure ain't! ;-)


----------



## EurodriverMK3 (Apr 5, 2008)

Post number 97. What do you guys think about getting this part in billet aluminum? If they get enough people wanting this - they may make it. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...Housing-Feeler-Thread&p=82359892#post82359892



Jordan


----------



## ernieo (Mar 8, 2013)

Hey Peter, I'm in Conroe, just north of Houston. I found it on ebay from germany. You might want to look there, sometimes you can get lucky. I just lowered my piece on ebay.

Ernie O.


----------



## PGrace (Feb 1, 2012)

*SF Bay area keyless start*

I just had the OEMPlus keyless start kit added to my W12, by my trusty mechanic, who knows the Phaeton pretty well (there are a few in the area that go to him)
If you've a "P" needing another button, then buy a kit from OEMPlus and take it to Max Motors in San Carlos, California. Probably 8 hours work, but it's still fresh in their minds...

-Paul


----------



## cai (Mar 22, 2009)

This has been for me the best modification that I have made to my USA stock Phaeton. No taking gloves off in the winter to open a door or start the car with a key. It should not take 8 hours, mine was done by a VW dealer in Maryland and took about 3-4 hours. I seem to remember that it cost about $500.00. 

cai


----------



## wetsiderkg (Dec 28, 2012)

Guys,

How can I tell if my phaeton meeting this production code?


"Phaeton MUST already be equipped with Keyless Entry (production code 4F6) to take advantage of this kit"


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Randy,

The information on where to find the codes on the car is in this thread:

Understanding Phaeton Production Codes & Build Stickers

Chris


----------



## craigm (Jan 23, 2009)

This is Awesome.

I realize this post is 10 years old but WOW.

I needed to immobilize a 2011 Phaeton yesterday (starter cut) using a vehicle tracking system and failed miserably.

Do you know if a Starter cut can be done at the Access / Start Control Unit under the seat?


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Craig:

Welcome to the forum.

What do you mean by 'immobilize' / 'starter cut'? I'm not sure what it is that you are trying to achieve here.

Michael


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Would this be the installation of an SMS-triggered theft reaction device, required to interrupt the starter operation should the owner report that the vehicle had been stolen?

Chris


----------



## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

This is one of the best thread I've seen in any forum. Thanks Michael for the an amazing write up and pics

Salah


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

For record- Michaels original post shows the spockcat harness as not having the proper ends. I just bought the harness for my 2nd Phaeton and the ends are now made Phaeton specific-











Additionally, although I did this several years ago, I am adding it here since nobody else has- the stock U.S. shifter panel already has the mounting points for the pushbutton switch to be put in, if you are brave enough to cut the hole-


----------



## klarson6869 (Sep 17, 2014)

*Looking for a trustworthy installer*

Hey all, not sure if I trust this to myself... Does anyone have installers they trust in the Minneapolis area? Or further north in mn?


----------



## dovetaildoc (Jan 3, 2009)

Burnsville VW, just south of Mpls, has done two keyless installs for me. They did a great job for a reasonable price. I work with Brad, the service consultant. He knows all about Phaetons.

Mike


----------



## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,

What should I do if I have those metal pieces without the wire in the corresponding holes like terminal 56 and 31 on the controller? I cannot insert the wires into the connector..









Johnny


----------



## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,
Also, on the wiring diagram, it looks like the ground point 397 should be the one right next to the Kessy module. The one by the heater should be ground point 634.
Does it matter or am I wrong?









Johnny


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Johnny,

Most plug pin types are held in with a little tang that snaps in place when the pin is pushed into the plug shell. It can only be removed without damage by inserting a thin strip of PET packaging (eg a strip cut from an old Coke bottle) to press in the tang again and allow the pin to be pulled or pushed out using a pin.

That is a generic statement, in as much as I have not seen the exact pin you are referring to.

Chris


----------



## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

PanEuropean said:


> These bolts have a special coating on them, and can only be used (tightened) once.


I contacted my VW dealer today for those bolts, and he said that they are generally not too expensive. But he said that his computer doesn't say anything about having to replace them, so he thinks that I could just use the old ones. :screwy:

-John


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

Remember that a VW dealer isn't VW.

For example- I know several guys that are VW dealer techs and they reuse stretch bolts on customers cars all the time.


----------



## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

Do you think it would be okay to reuse them?

-John


----------



## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hello,
I did all the disassembling, and I have the same wire as this. but the circle on the ground wire is not big enough. Did you put this wire on? What should I do? Get a bigger circle?

Thanks,
Johnny


----------



## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi all,

After one day of working, this is the result. Works perfectly.
Thanks for everyone's help and answering. It helped a lot!

Johnny


----------



## EricFromPA (Jan 8, 2010)

*photos and text for steps 9-15 missing*

I need to move the shifter from park to neutral so my 2004 v8 can be flat bedded to the dealer. No electrical, so I need to release the shift lock manually. I referred to this post for instructions on how to remove the shift handle and trim so I can access the shift-lock solenoid and release it. It looks like steps 9-15 are missing. I don't see the details for how to remove the trim around the shifter, etc. Does anyone know where I can find these "missing steps"? Thanks.


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Eric

I heard about a tow truck driver who was able to release it from underneath the car easily.

Sorry I don't know more.

MacLane or Mike at Garnet might know. Tell them I sent you. They tidy up mine.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

You aren't going to be able to hit the solenoid from under the car.



Pull down the chrome piece on the bottom of the shifter. It will only go down a little bit.. enough for you to remove the wood trim piece on the front of it. 

Gently pull the wood out from the top. A small flat screwdriver might help you release it.

Behind that, you will see the 'staple' that needlessly secures the knob. Using same screwdriver, pull it out.


Then grab the shifter knob and yank upwards. It should come off in your hand.


Use the small flat screw driver to gently (and carefully) pry and work the wood shifter trim surround up and out. You will need to reach underneath and undo all the electrical connections.


Once you get that off, you can look down in the 12 o'clock and see the shifter solenoid interlock. you can press it with your finger to release the shifter..


Once you've done it, it is easier than it sounds.


----------



## EricFromPA (Jan 8, 2010)

Thanks Josh - worked like a charm. I had to take out the ashtray assembly to make enough room for the wood shift trim to come off. Thanks for your advice.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

:thumbup::thumbup::beer::beer:


----------



## pmicaza (Feb 26, 2014)

Hi,
We are in the middle of retrofitting a starter button are we are a bit confused as to the pin out of the kessy harness. Anyone have a pinout or specifics as to which empty spot to use?
Also, info on how to reinstall the shifter knob?

Tia,
Peter


----------



## august125 (Feb 21, 2015)

There's a huge lack of information on removing and reinstalling the shifter knob. I spent an hour figuring it out myself a little while back. Here's what you do:

Grasp the button on the side and pull until it snaps into a popped out position.

Use a spudger to gently pry the wood trim with the engine emblem from the face of the shifter.

You will find a U shaped retaining pin inside, remove it.

Pull down the chrome piece on the bottom until it is free of the shift knob.

You should now be able to remove and replace the shift knob freely. If you still have trouble I'll post some photos.


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Archival note:*

There is more discussion on removing and replacing the transmission selector lever (without breaking the slider plate which operates the switches) in this thread:

How to Reinstall the Leather Transmission Shift Lever

Chris


----------



## TimShawn (Jul 1, 2010)

PanEuropean said:


> *Wiring Diagram, Repair Wires*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Do you have the rest of this diagram? I want to see the pin assignments between the Kessy module and the four door handles. More specifically, I want to see the pin assignment between J518 (kessy module) and the door handles G415, G416, G417, G418


----------



## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

TimShawn said:


> Do you have the rest of this diagram? I want to see the pin assignments between the Kessy module and the four door handles. More specifically, I want to see the pin assignment between J518 (kessy module) and the door handles G415, G416, G417, G418


Hey Tim,

Send me a PM, I'll give you the stuff you need 

-John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

*Request for Paximus*

Chris, can you rehost Michael's pictures for TT in FL?


----------



## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

*Moderation note:*

Photos re-hosted, where possible.

Chris


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Paximus said:


> *Moderation note:*
> 
> Photos re-hosted, where possible.
> 
> Chris


Thanks Chris.

-Eric


----------



## dasantas (Mar 18, 2016)

Thanks !!!!


----------



## patzistuta (Dec 4, 2017)

*Great work*

Nice work Chris, and thx 4 sharing it.


----------



## ottomatic75 (Jan 19, 2018)

*Where Can I find the wiring harness for the push start for Phaeton?*

This post seems pretty old so not sure if Spookcat still makes the wiring harness. Anyone point me in the direction of the harness for this project? Thanks!


----------



## nico1111 (May 20, 2018)

*wiring harness by spokcat*



ottomatic75 said:


> This post seems pretty old so not sure if Spookcat still makes the wiring harness. Anyone point me in the direction of the harness for this project? Thanks!


hello, i have the same question too, where can we get the wiring harnesses and possible the plastic trim too?


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

[email protected]

Jim's number in on the website.


----------



## nico1111 (May 20, 2018)

steveskinr said:


> [email protected]
> 
> Jim's number in on the website.


Thanks for your answer but you gave us an email address,right? What website should we look or just send an email to ask?


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

http://www.tm-techmark.com/touareg/Paypalpage2.htm#keyless

Phaeton is partway down the page.


----------



## nico1111 (May 20, 2018)

Thank you!
Now just need to find the plastic trim with the hole for the start button.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

nico1111 said:


> Thank you!
> Now just need to find the plastic trim with the hole for the start button.


As you probably read above, they were only available with the airbag switch hole. 

I think U.S. VW dealers can get it. You can't get a new North American version any more. 

https://parts.vw.com/p/Automatic-Transmission-Shift-Cover-Plate/48764930/3D1857747CG5W8.html

Here's a pretty black one:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Phaeton...513003?hash=item213a44dfab:g:bnkAAOSwImlanRZt


----------



## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

I used a dremmel on two and they look factory. Just needed to use a pencil on the edge to turn it black instead of white.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

steveskinr said:


> I used a dremmel on two and they look factory. Just needed to use a pencil on the edge to turn it black instead of white.


You have mad skills, Steve. 

Me - not so much. 

I started by measuring and scribing an X in the middle of the circle but I am no craftsman. 

I used a step drill bit and it got off-center and a hair too small so I had to hog the hole out and the gap ended up being noticeable. 

If the button had actually worked, I would have tried to fill the gap with epoxy or black RTV. 

It's good that I used a spare shifter surround I bought on eBay that was not quite perfect.

-Eric


----------



## nico1111 (May 20, 2018)

steveskinr said:


> I used a dremmel on two and they look factory. Just needed to use a pencil on the edge to turn it black instead of white.


Why you used a Dremel and not a drill?


----------



## nico1111 (May 20, 2018)

steveskinr said:


> http://www.tm-techmark.com/touareg/Paypalpage2.htm#keyless
> 
> Phaeton is partway down the page.


I got the harness from techmark but the start/stop switch was too expensive from them $90 so I bought one from UK for $40, waiting for it.The wires on the harness are color coded(red,yellow,white,blue and green) but they didn't included a wire connection diagram..... i think i saw one here on earlier posts.


----------



## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

nico1111 said:


> Why you used a Dremel and not a drill?


Good luck finding a drillbit that's 2 inches in diameter
I used a dremel too

Sent from my LG-M470 using Tapatalk


----------



## nico1111 (May 20, 2018)

phaetonjohn said:


> Good luck finding a drillbit that's 2 inches in diameter
> I used a dremel too
> 
> Sent from my LG-M470 using Tapatalk


Ah, that's why, ok, I was thinking maybe it's a different material or something. Did you use a special attachment to the Dremel ? I haven't received the button yet, so the button is 2 '' diameter?


----------



## phaetonjohn (Oct 24, 2014)

nico1111 said:


> Ah, that's why, ok, I was thinking maybe it's a different material or something. Did you use a special attachment to the Dremel ? I haven't received the button yet, so the button is 2 '' diameter?


It's just plastic. I used a step drill, then went to just a regular die grinder. I didn't make a very round hole, but it works. Yeah it's about 2 inches, I can't exactly rember though. Maybe an inch and a half?
Let's say it's 2 inches, ±2 inches  

Sent from my LG-M470 using Tapatalk


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I think it's closer to 1 inch than 2 inches. (Maybe 1 1/8") Wait until you get the start button and measure it before drilling or cutting a hole. 

My hole ended up being too close the edge of the plastic trim. The back doesn't exactly have a hole marked out but has some locating legs that look sort of like this: 

\ /

/ \

(That's the best I can do. Just imagine a big "X" with no center.) 

I scribed between the legs and tried to drill my pilot hole in the exact center but I must have been a bit off.

The plastic piece you are going to modify is NLA new so I would practice on a scratched up one from eBay first. I'm glad I didn't modify my original after the horrible job I did. The original plastic trim pieces on my Phaetons are both better than any of the used ones I bought from eBay.

Unfortunately, eBay sellers want a lot for them even if they are all scratched up.

Good luck.

-Eric


----------



## nico1111 (May 20, 2018)

Thanks guys, will wait for the switch to arrive.


----------



## fdtinc (Dec 31, 2010)

*ok to still do 14 years in?*

Interesting to see that this mod. is still being made so many years into the life of the car; but still last post is >2 old.

Could doing this at this point, to an almost 15 year old car, cause unforeseen issues, hence, better leave as is? 
Just wondering what forum members think, thanks!


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

fdtinc said:


> Interesting to see that this mod. is still being made so many years into the life of the car; but still last post is >2 old.
> 
> Could doing this at this point, to an almost 15 year old car, cause unforeseen issues, hence, better leave as is?
> Just wondering what forum members think, thanks!


Nope. The only problem is the lack of parts. I think I got one of the last Phaeton switches but new Touareg switches might be available. You can buy the Phaeton switches used on eBay from ROW. 

You'd have to ask Spockcat if he still makes the harness but it's still on his order page as is the Touareg switch. 


Mine didn't work but I must have gotten it wrong when wiring the KESSY connector. 

The harness is correct according to Spockcat's wiring diagram and the Bentley manual wiring diagram.


By the way, people modify way older cars all the time. 

If you break your Phaeton, you can buy it new or used parts. I'd be more afraid to break a new car and void the warranty.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Nope. The only problem is the lack of parts. I think I got one of the last Phaeton switches but new Touareg switches might be available. You can buy the Phaeton switches used on eBay from ROW.


The Phaeton switch is still on the VWOA parts website even though it was never offered here:

https://parts.vw.com/p/Volkswagen_2.../Start-button-SWITCH/51453914/3D0959839C.html

Your mileage may vary. Check with your dealer. It's also prolly available for less from an online seller.


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

fdtinc said:


> Could doing this at this point, to an almost 15 year old car, cause unforeseen issues, hence, better leave as is?




Eh- it's just a switch and a couple wires. What could go wrong? I've done it on both of my Phaetons. One with the factory trim, and one with my making a hole.


----------



## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm not sure why anyone would bother. The novelty these days is to have a retro key start!


----------



## PowerDubs (Jul 22, 2001)

That's actually both funny and true...


Every time- and I mean EVERY STINKING TIME I drive my wife's modern VW and stop somewhere- I reach for a non-existent key to turn off. Drives me crazy.


----------

