# Cheap man's air ride question lol



## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

so i want to lower my 75 bug soon and i was thinking starting with 2 1/5" drop spindles, and then some Gabriel hijackers on the front and rear of the car. these shocks are air assisted and instead of the car bleeding the air out when it is parked and what not i could just set the ride hight the way i want and keep them that way. unless i could figure a way to add a air pump and tank to them. 

thought id ask what you all thought about that set up. 

here is a picture of the shocks for reference. 
http://a.cdnbrm.com/images/products/large/Suspension/gabriel_hijacker_shocks.jpg


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

Does anyone happen to know off the top of their head what the stock bug's shock > overall lingth, and travel would be? That way I know about what size hijackers to look for. Thanks


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## JDII (Apr 1, 2011)

> these shocks are air assisted and *instead of the car bleeding the air out when it is parked and what not* i could just set the ride hight the way i want and keep them that way.


I find this statement to be very interesting, so if you have air bags you really have no idea what ride height your ride may be at any given time, especially when parked man......bags sound really complicated. I cant believe no one thought of using those air shocks before sounds alot easier.:thumbup:


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

JDII said:


> bags sound really complicated. I cant believe no one thought of using those air shocks before sounds alot easier.:thumbup:


leave it to the MK4 kids to show the way and enlighten us to all things lowered of an aircooled :beer:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

So I guess you all like where this is going ? And plus the mk4 is my wife's car, she won't let me play with it to much. So I got some measuments today for the front and rear stock shocks. 

Front - compressed from stud bushing to eyelit is 13 1/4"
Front - uncompressed from stud bushing to eyelit is 18"

Rear - compressed from eyelit center to eyelit center is 10 1/2"
Rear - uncompressed from eyelit to eyelit is 16"

So I found the hijackers for the rear that have both eyelits but the font is where I'm stumped. I'm not sure if hijackers come in a stud to eyelit. So the search goes on. Hope to have some results soon.


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

Hackintosh said:


> So I guess you all like where this is going ?


no we don't. it's called sarcasm. 

you think you're coming up with something amazingly new and different? you're not. 

this setup will not work successfully.

:beer:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

Why wouldn't it work ? I like to know that's why I was asking, so that someone that knew more than I do about it would share what they know on this subject. Sorry for the dumb question I guess.


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

Hackintosh said:


> Why wouldn't it work ? I like to know that's why I was asking, so that someone that knew more than I do about it would share what they know on this subject. Sorry for the dumb question I guess.


there's boat loads of info on air ride setups for aircooled beetles/buses/type III's/etc out there....and unless you are a good fabricator or have deep pockets there isn't another viable option to making an air ride setup. 

why won't your idea work? first up your shock mounts are not designed to take the load of the vehicle. then secondly, what are you gonna do about your torsions? your air shock setup would be fighting against the torsions no matter what height you put it at...and which, more than likely, would make it ride like total ass as a result. third? sure. if you check out air beam setups they are removing the torsions, and/or incorporating them into the air bag setups so that they still work like factory. and above all they are usually leaving the stock shock mounting locations for one to run shocks...so that the setup would ride decently at a driveable height.

google-ing "air beams for vw's" will get you off and running on the information that's out there on this subject :beer:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

Ok thanks, I know it wasn't a new found idea at all I just wanted to know if it was possible to do that set up and you answered that. I did think about the tortion bars and how that would work out. So if I were to legitamently buy a bag set up and have on bag in the front been an two in the back what would happen to the tortion bars then ? I saw someone here do a set up like that but they were not clear on how the bag moved the beam. Here again I'm just tossing ideas around if I wanted to bag my bug or make it static, but thanks for all the help so far :thumbup:


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## Woody426 (Oct 15, 2011)

A1steaksauce said:


> there's boat loads of info on air ride setups for aircooled beetles/buses/type III's/etc out there....and unless you are a good fabricator or have deep pockets there isn't another viable option to making an air ride setup.
> 
> why won't your idea work? first up your shock mounts are not designed to take the load of the vehicle. then secondly, what are you gonna do about your torsions? your air shock setup would be fighting against the torsions no matter what height you put it at...and which, more than likely, would make it ride like total ass as a result. third? sure. if you check out air beam setups they are removing the torsions, and/or incorporating them into the air bag setups so that they still work like factory. and above all they are usually leaving the stock shock mounting locations for one to run shocks...so that the setup would ride decently at a driveable height.
> 
> google-ing "air beams for vw's" will get you off and running on the information that's out there on this subject :beer:


 :beer:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

So what do you do with the tortion bar when you bag it ?


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## JDII (Apr 1, 2011)

Hackintosh said:


> So what do you do with the tortion bar when you bag it ?


thats the beauty of fabbing the suspension set up yourself...... it's totally up to you!!!!


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

"if you check out air beam setups they are removing the torsions, and/or incorporating them into the air bag setups so that they still work like factory." - A1steaksauce

That's what I thought, you would have to remove the tortion bar or come up with another way.


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

most everyone leaves the rear torsion bars in. set the pan to the lowest ride height you want when the bags are empty. then run the bag set up to rotate them downwards "which raises the car" when airing up.


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

Understood. Im still getting mixed answers about the front tortion bar. Some say they put a solid bar in place of the tortion bar and some say they took it completely out. So what's best for the set up I was trying to make work.?


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

LooseNuts said:


> most everyone leaves the rear torsion bars in. set the pan to the lowest ride height you want when the bags are empty. then run the bag set up to rotate them downwards "which raises the car" when airing up.


true. :thumbup: plus it gives you a suspension that's functioning somewhat like stock in the process.



Hackintosh said:


> Understood. Im still getting mixed answers about the front tortion bar. Some say they put a solid bar in place of the tortion bar and some say they took it completely out. So what's best for the set up I was trying to make work.?


generally i've come across people removing the torsions and running a solid bar stock when they are running a dual air bag beam. however that's a bunch of work to make a dual bag front beam work. the single setup is much easier and cheaper :beer:


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## JDII (Apr 1, 2011)

I had a brain fart. what if you left the front torsion stacks in. they are locked in place by the center mounting bolt in the tubes. when you put in adjusters you split the beam and put them in so they will let the torsion stacks rotate to the desired height and then lock them back in place. my fart is this, could you not rig the center locking like an adjuster so it will rotate free when being aired up or down then use some sort of air lock to lock them back in place to have a stock ride. only use a bag to air up and down?


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

use the monroe air shocks in the front.

remove the torsions add drop spindles and add in a solid rod trough and run the shocks

monroe air shock thread. go through this
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/vi...=0&postorder=asc&highlight=air+shocks&start=0

through bolt set up for up front after torsions are removed. note the air shocks also


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks for the link I came accross that thred lastnight but didn't have muh time to read it all


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

So I decided to go with bags on the back and just make my own brackets. I already have the tank and pump so all I really need are the bags, fittings , and air line. Where would be the place to look for those maybe individualized. Thanks 


...


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## DIE TRYING (Mar 5, 2003)

you also need valves. and don't be a cheap skate when it comes to fittings. last thing you want is a crap home depot fitting blowing under pressure and you lay out at highway speeds. and in making your own brackets make sure nothing is anywhere near your bag that could potentially rub through it... 

what I'm saying is don't buy cheap stuff, it's your life when it fails


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

understood :thumbup: where is a good web site for fittings and also should i go with manual valves or electric ones 

i found a guy selling some air lift bags and hes asking $50 a pair, he says they only have 2K miles on both sets does that sound good our no ?


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## DIE TRYING (Mar 5, 2003)

suicidedoors.com, guagemagazine.com I got most of my fittings from them. I like electric valves, but manual valves are cheaper.


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

ok so i know i need thru rods for the front end but do i need any for the rear or do i take out the torsion bar in the rear and let the air bags do all the work?


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## Jade Wombat (Oct 20, 2004)

Hackintosh said:


> ok so i know i need thru rods for the front end but do i need any for the rear or do i take out the torsion bar in the rear and let the air bags do all the work?


Either one. It depends on how low you're going and where your mounting points for the rear bags/brackets are. You can re-index the torsion bars lower so they support some of the load, do a search on how-to, blah, blah...


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## VDUBONDUBS! (Jul 24, 2011)

*amazing how everyone is a pro....*

Sry if I'm repeating what's already been stated but I only had a sec to thumb thru this thread but decided I needed to chime in wid my 2cents. Having the history of bagging and juicing ( hydraulics for those that don't remrber that bein the at one time only option for adjustable suspension)....airshocks if the right ones will work on the front of a standard....as a matter of fact there are several companies that sell air setups that the front is just that! And as for the torsion bars....takem out...remember they work in both directions.....when pushed up they push down...when pushed down...u guessed it they push up....so in other words they make ur bag or shock or cylinder work twice as hard to lift the car from a "preset" stance....a thru bolt as mentioned before will keep it all together in the front....as for the rear...slide them out and bolt it all back together....if your wheel/ tire combo allow it to hitrock bottom then u can get a different bump stop to limit its drop in the rear....as for the front....I've truthfully never fully worried about....I've always ran a big enough rim that rests the fender on it before the car hits ground....but there are ways to do whatever u want...depends on ur creativity and patience! But do please be carefull in ur trial and error! Hopefully this helps! Oh and dont skimp on valves!!!! Electric or manual. But if goin cheapest route manual will work just fine....remember these cars r light so they don't require a metric assload of force to pushem up! Hopefully this helps u on ur journey!


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

Ok so I know I'm brig this bak from the dead but didn't want to start a new thread. 
I got my tortion bars out and the thru rods in. I want to know what you all think in how I went about doing it. I have two steel washers / two neoprene washers/ one steel washer/ locking nut with cotter pin


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

perfect. now cut off the extra all thread :thumbup:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

Thanks man i need to get some 2.5" drop spindles because the rear is lower than the front but an inch. Just wanted to make sure i was doing this right, don't want to have safety issues later


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

LooseNuts said:


> perfect. now cut off the extra all thread :thumbup:


hold the phone mr nuts...



Hackintosh said:


> Thanks man i need to get some 2.5" drop spindles because the rear is lower than the front but an inch. Just wanted to make sure i was doing this right, don't want to have safety issues later


i spy one small...err big problem.

if you ever for any reason have to take that assembly apart you're pretty much going to be SOL on getting that cotter pin to go back exactly how you have it. 

i would leave the rod ends out past the nuts somewhat and simply drill the rod and put the cotter pin out there, not thru the nut. that way you don't have to worry about trying to get the nut to line back up with the hole in the rod. and at the end of the day it does the exact same thing :beer:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

thanks A1 that idea did cross my mind but i was told that it would be ok hahaha so i went ahead and did it this way till i can buy some of the squeez nuts in the picture that was posted earlier. i looked everywhere local and no one knew what i was talkinga bout. so i guess ill have to order them but might just do what you said seeings as i wouldnt have to order anything.

also i know i have to cut the all-thread down this picture was taken just before i trimmed them down. But even cut down close, at both maximum low and high the all-thread seems to either touch the tire (when low) and the wheel (at high) so i guess ill have to adjust the bolts so that the wheel stops just before it touches the thread 

again thanks :beer:


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

Hackintosh said:


> thanks A1 that idea did cross my mind but i was told that it would be ok hahaha so i went ahead and did it this way till i can buy some of the squeeze nuts in the picture that was posted earlier. *i looked everywhere local and no one knew what i was talking about. so i guess ill have to order them *but might just do what you said seeings as i wouldnt have to order anything.
> 
> also i know i have to cut the all-thread down this picture was taken just before i trimmed them down. But even cut down close, at both maximum low and high the all-thread seems to either touch the tire (when low) and the wheel (at high) so i guess ill have to adjust the bolts so that the wheel stops just before it touches the thread
> 
> again thanks :beer:


Hi Hack ,
*There's* Nylocks








http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=N-bsUJINiPuLAp-LgNAB 

& crimp top nuts like








http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...858,d.cGE&fp=401124c1849217b&biw=1280&bih=832

Both should be available @ just ~ any local hardware store & both should be considered as one time use only since they lose their gripping ability pretty drasticly on reapplication due to being undistorted.
Both are also used on things as critical as CV joints & stub axles on all late MK cars
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&..._gc.r_pw.&fp=ce5627820da0adb&biw=1280&bih=832

You could also probably lose 1 each of the doubled up neoprene washers for a skosh more room since 3 surfaces rubbing against each other is ~ the same as 4 frictionwise.

:beer:


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## whalemingo (Jan 30, 2011)

Hackintosh said:


> So what do you do with the tortion bar when you bag it ?


I would weld them all together and beat stray cats to death. Stupid ****ing cats. Or you could sharpen the individual ones and chop off cat's heads with them, that may also be entertaining.


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

A1steaksauce said:


> hold the phone mr nuts...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


or if it has to come apart for some reason. by a another .05 nut and drill a hole to match or re-drill your hole on the out side :wave: err-duh lol

its fine, leave it and get it done, if you need to come back and take it apart then fix it then


saucy is right tho, it would have been better to have the cotter on the outside of the nut. 


next time right. both saucy and i know about the next time stuff :laugh::laugh:


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## JDII (Apr 1, 2011)

LooseNuts said:


> or if it has to come apart for some reason. by a another .05 nut and drill a hole to match or re-drill your hole on the out side :wave: err-duh lol
> 
> its fine, leave it and get it done, if you need to come back and take it apart then fix it then
> 
> ...


Or you could just buy the correct fastner for the application. AKA Castle Nut!!!:banghead::sly:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

I did use nylock nuts. I do think I'm going to use the castle nut. But let me ask this if I have that hole drilled in the all thread like I do now and that the nylock nut off to put a castle nut on would drilling another hole in the all thread pose a problem? As in weakening it.


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

Just leave it. Theres a 100 ways to skin a cat. And by my look your done and its safe. If you have to redo it later then change stuff up if you want


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

Hackintosh said:


> I did use nylock nuts. I do think I'm going to use the castle nut. But let me ask this if I have that hole drilled in the all thread like I do now and that the nylock nut off to put a castle nut on would drilling another hole in the all thread pose a problem? As in weakening it.


Dayo Hack  ,
When using a castle nut,you can crossdrill another hole right @ the same level as the original drilled hole like is done on an IRS rear stub axle








This can be done because the gripping ability of the nut is inboard of the pin which is only there to keep the nut from backing off,+ it gives you 3 spots to rotate the nut to adjust pretension because the nut is a hex .

:beer:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

how would i go about flipping my tie rod ball joint ? is this what i need ? 

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12-6613-11


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

Hackintosh said:


> how would i go about flipping my tie rod ball joint ? is this what i need ?
> 
> http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C12-6613-11


you do realize that you're asking two questions here right? :laugh:

to flip your tie rod assembly, yes that is what you can use.

to flip your ball joint, no that is not what you can use.


honestly, why are you worried about flipping your tie rod assembly when it appears that you are not even running drop spindles? iirc you're going to max out your suspension travel with those ball joints in your attempt to lay frame long before you're gonna need that tie rod to be flipped....however that being said i could be totally off/wrong here. the last thing i played with that was balljoint was a baywindow bus, and truthfully it wasn't even that low :laugh:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

well i am getting 2.5 drop spindles with disk breaks so i just wanted to make sure if i had to, or if it would help at all? also if i don't have to flip it would i have to notch the body at all to allow the tie rod to freely travel?


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

A1steaksauce said:


> in your attempt to lay frame


hahahah you said lay frame. :screwy:

flipping ball joint is not even don't. you wont be able to get anything to work :thumbup:

just flip the outer tie rod not the inner. then get a quick steer kit for the pitman arm.

and don't buy those things for the flit kit. do it right and go down to harbor freight and bu the reamer and just reamer the spindle underneath. 

http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/movies/M4V01306.MP4


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

LooseNuts said:


> hahahah you said lay frame. :screwy:


hey now, in my defense i said "in your attempt to lay frame" i know better 

now if you can just show me how to either purposely rust my car or apply this rust spray paint i picked up at Ace Hardware i'll kindly be on my way :laugh: :wave:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

been busy putting in new pans guys so its going slow

ok so i have been thinking and before i just start hacking into it with no real direction, but i want to go lower. 

this is where i sit now 










here are the two options im thinking of doing.

1. notch the spring plate but it seems that the spring plates is touching the stop on the shock tower, but if i were to notch it, the trailing arm would hit the shock tower then.

2. should i cut and raise the end of the trailing arm so that the wheel will tuck in the fender befor the trailing arm and spring plate maxes out.

someone told me that i need to do both notching of the spring plate and the cutting of the trailing arm. 

thanks for all the help


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## A1steaksauce (Nov 30, 2009)

the location of the thread escapes me, loosenuts should be able to find it...but in it this guy actually raised the hub assembly up on the trailing arm itself. think boomerang plates on a baywindow. best way to go about it imo :thumbup:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

yeah thats what i was saying was an option, cutting and raising the hub on the trailing arm. but is there any reason to do both notch spring plate and raise the hub ?


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

Dont notch the spring plate

Do the trailing arm step. Its the only way to go.

Not mine. These are a friends. chase. Cage66


cage66 said:


>


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

thanks Loose Nuts, so there is no reason for me to notch my spring plates, correct ? all i would need to do is cut and raise the hub on the trailing arm... yes ? how many inches did your friend raise his ??? and how does his ride sit now ?


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

No notching the spring plates. Yep just cut and raise the hub. Those are 3" i believe. Same as the set i did. Rides like a stock ride because you retain the close to stock position on the spring plate index.


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

do you have any pictures of the ride with 3" raised hub ?


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## buggyman (Aug 24, 2004)

LooseNuts said:


> *Dont notch the spring plate*
> 
> Do the trailing arm step. Its the only way to go.
> 
> Not mine. These are a friends. chase. Cage66


:thumbup:



Hackintosh said:


> thanks Loose Nuts, *so there is no reason for me to notch my spring plates, correct ?* all i would need to do is cut and raise the hub on the trailing arm... yes ? how many inches did your friend raise his ??? and how does his ride sit now ?


:thumbup:



LooseNuts said:


> *No notching the spring plates.* Yep just cut and raise the hub. Those are 3" i believe. Same as the set i did. Rides like a stock ride because you retain the close to stock position on the spring plate index.


:thumbup: 

Hi Hack  ,
I'm with Loose  on this(& a many other things  ) when it comes to lowering(which I don't do:vampire::laugh: )
About the only reason to notch the springplates








is to _increase_ overall suspension _travel_ on a short travel _off_road setup:
"If you're gonna do this..."
http://www.chircoestore.com/catalog/smf/index.php?topic=3783.0




 :laugh: 
Soooo,if you're not gonna be bounding through forests & over deserts:laugh: it's best to determine you're ride height & _set_ it there in order to just commute with enough travel considering that you may come across a few speed bumps every now & then .

:beer::beer:


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

I might have forgot to tell you bug man that I will be running an air ride set up front and rear so I don't have tortion bars in the rear. But thanks to everyone for the help. The guy I was talking to said he would cut and raise the hub on both trailing arms for $200


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

Hackintosh said:


> do you have any pictures of the ride with 3" raised hub ?


no because they where on split bus IRS conversions. :thumbdown:

concepts the same tho. it will still look like when you just rotate the spring plate.


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

So I'll get the trailin arms off and have him cut and raise them and I should be done for the back then I need to work on setting the front down more


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## dubvinci (Jan 22, 2007)

its less than an inch from sitting on the ground. 2.5" dropped spindles, monroe airshocks, new standard travel ball joints. with the extended travel balljoints it would sit on the ground. this is with 165-40-16 tires on 16x6 d90s...


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)




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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

thats really helpful "dubvinci" do you plan on dropping the rear any more ? im waiting for my tax refund to come in so i can order drop spindles


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

ok guys its been a long time but i have been doing work on the bug but in other areas. so im back to thinking out this air ride set up. 

two bags in the back and one up front, right now I'm mostly concerned about the back. i was really ready to cut and rais the hub on the trailing arm but i saw some pictures and videos of "Brown bags" 

here is some of his work. 

see here they still have the spring plates and the rear shock towers.

 


and now it looks like they cut the shock tower out all the way. so they wouldnt have any spring plate stops as well.



what do you guys think????

here is a video of the same pans done on air. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7RPKC_npt8

again this is "brown bags" work


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

well guys never mind, the trans bracket is setting 1/4" off the ground with stock tires so if i get a lower tire it will be on the ground and i did not have to cut and raise the trailing arm hubs. 

just thought id update thanks :wave:


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## cfvwtuner (Jan 19, 2001)

Yea great.....How are you going to support the entire rear half of the body now?


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## Hackintosh (Jan 5, 2012)

no no no "cfvwtuner" i didn't do what was pictured at all, i still have all my body mounting spots so everything is like it should be


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## glifahrenheitcameron (Sep 14, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## Mdgunnut80 (Jul 12, 2013)

Cliff or Brownbags knows what he is doing when it comes to bagging aircooled vws...


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## LooseNuts (Oct 4, 2010)

Mdgunnut80 said:


> Cliff or Brownbags knows what he is doing when it comes to bagging aircooled vws...


yes he does. BUT that's Nick and his car. Nick however is in the Brownbag crew. :thumbup::thumbup:


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