# WRC turbo....Oh baby!



## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

Well, I had a good day, I went to see a guy who had a turbo from a 2001 Ford Focus WRC car.... Then bought it! 
Spec as follows
Garrett TR30R
Compressor housing:
.60 A/R
60mm inlet
50mm outlet
Compressor wheel:
45.5mm Inducer
69.4mm Exducer
Turbine housing:
.57 A/R
50mm V-band inlet
60mm V-band outlet
Turbine wheel:
59.3mm
52.2mm
I lost the formula to work out trim, has anyone got it, or can tell me what these work out at?
It still has the FIA 34mm restrictor, but that can get bored out and release the full potential of this thing! Cool points to notice include:
-It has a cast stainles turbine housing
-The compressor wheel is CNC machined!!!!!!








-This is the same turbo used on the Audi R8 Le mans cars
The goodies
















































The turbo is part stripped as it was used for development and dyno testing. I'll get it reassembled and balanced and then figure what to build to put it in! 
The same guy had this manifold off the same 2001 Fucus WRC, but I couldn't afford it, and it needs modification to fit on a 20v!!!! But it is porn, and it all made of Inconel. Note the sensor lugs on all of the runners.








I may have it anyway and see what I can figure with it.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (polov8)*

(inducer/ exducer)^2 x100 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (killa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *killa* »_(inducer/ exducer)^2 x100 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks!
OK, so Compressor trim is 43 and turbine trim is 77.5


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*WRC Baby!*


_Quote, originally posted by *polov8* »_and it needs modification to fit on a 20v!!!! But it is porn, and it all made of Inconel. Note the sensor lugs on all of the runners

Andy I do believe something *like this which DonR designed* will fit the bill.The manditory 20V pics that this turbocharger belongs on:
















More *available here*.
And a little .gif vid for the kids...


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (polov8)*









Andy you are one lucky son of b****















How the hell dos an individual get his hands on such a turbo that’s mad 
By the way by size it’s somewhat like a very small GT30R almost GT28RS
Are you putting this thing in Elli?


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## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: WRC Baby! (Wizard-of-OD)*

all that and they still use worm gear clamps http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (talx)*


_Quote, originally posted by *talx* »_








Andy you are one lucky son of b****















How the hell dos an individual get his hands on such a turbo that’s mad 
By the way by size it’s somewhat like a very small GT30R almost GT28RS
Are you putting this thing in Elli?

I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet, but it is far far far to nice to NOT do something very cool with it! 
And yes it is small, but I'm willing to bet it makes up for that with bang up to date design. 
Does anyone know how much boost the WRC cars run max? They seem to make a little over 300hp due to the restrictor, but the torque is well over 400 lb/ft, so they must be doing something right!


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## Hybrid VW (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (polov8)*

I don't know if I could run that compressor wheel- it's too beautiful to hide from the world. I think it would end up as a desk ornament or something







Any idea what kind of material it's machined from? Why machine it instead of making it in the normal manner (casting?)?


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## RRL (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (polov8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *polov8* »_
Does anyone know how much boost the WRC cars run max? They seem to make a little over 300hp due to the restrictor, but the torque is well over 400 lb/ft, so they must be doing something right!

Typical boost is 32-25 psi. Horsepower figures vary, but 325-330 is considered normal (with restrictor), and 440-460 lb feet of torque as well. With anti-lag set up as moderately aggressive, 17-21 psi is about average at 'idle' speeds. Materials in the turbo are designed to deal with 1900-2100 degree F continuously.
Apparently the WRC turbos are the only Garretts not sold to the public because the turbine housings are not rated as 'explosion proof' should a wheel let go. That, and the technology is propriotory of course. FWIW...
Bob


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## Feanor (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (RRL)*

How much did that guy want for that manifold?


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## autocross16vrocco (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: WRC Baby! (hkk735)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_all that and they still use worm gear clamps http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

i was thinking the same thing.
Nice score on that turbo tho..


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (RRL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_all that and they still use worm gear clamps http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

The clamp is a V-band, and that's what's used to clamp the 2 halves of the compressor housing together, and to hold the turbine housing to the centre section. I don't see why you view this as a bad thing?


_Quote, originally posted by *Hybrid VW* »_I don't know if I could run that compressor wheel- it's too beautiful to hide from the world. I think it would end up as a desk ornament or something







Any idea what kind of material it's machined from? Why machine it instead of making it in the normal manner (casting?)?

It's machined from alloy, and if I could host the full res version of that pic, you'd be blown away. I can only figure that the wheel is CNC'd to quickly test out different specs on the dyno. It's definitely been run, because it's been balanced. 

_Quote, originally posted by *RRL* »_Typical boost is 32-25 psi. Horsepower figures vary, but 325-330 is considered normal (with restrictor), and 440-460 lb feet of torque as well. With anti-lag set up as moderately aggressive, 17-21 psi is about average at 'idle' speeds. Materials in the turbo are designed to deal with 1900-2100 degree F continuously.

Derestricted it should be a pretty good bet for 400hp then? I can certainly live with 460 lb/ft! 

_Quote, originally posted by *RRL* »_Apparently the WRC turbos are the only Garretts not sold to the public because the turbine housings are not rated as 'explosion proof' should a wheel let go. That, and the technology is propriotory of course. FWIW...
Bob

Well that might be because the compressor housing seems to be magnesium as far as I can tell..........which is cool


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## Ohio Brian (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (polov8)*

I'm a huge WRC fan, and if I had a turbo from a WRC car, I would get some kind of anti-lag system to use on whatever car I put it on. That IS what it's made for.


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## stripped_gti (Oct 2, 2005)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (Wizard-of-OD)*

how much does he want for thatturbo manifold? haha pm me .. my brother has a focus and money money


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## hkk735 (Jul 14, 2001)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (polov8)*

worm gear clamps on the piping in the pics wiz posted...not your turbo


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## talx (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: WRC turbo....Oh baby! (hkk735)*

i was thining the same thing but didnt know what you mean by worm clamp i guess Skoda is a low budjed team so they need to save cash some how








Did i mention that turbo is awsome........yes i did well another time that turbo is AWSOME!!!!


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## thetwodubheads (Dec 6, 2004)

*Re: WRC Baby! (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_










would that be a little turbo in the back for the "anti lag" system?


_Modified by thetwodubheads at 9:49 PM 2-13-2006_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: WRC Baby! (thetwodubheads)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ohio Brian* »_I would get some kind of anti-lag system to use on whatever car I put it on. That IS what it's made for.









Definatelyas the SEM he is using has Anti-LAG.He should get a full S3 drivetrain and find either a MK1 Caddy or a MK2 Rallye.This is a PVW feature car waiting to happen and always usually starts with one small part.

_Quote, originally posted by *thetwodubheads* »_
would that be a little turbo in the back for the "anti lag" system?

I believe thats for the "umluft" system which Audi MS used back in the early 80's to reduce Turbo Lag.
Andy check this out:


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: WRC Baby! (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yeah, I have that pic, that's the Mountune engineered Focus motor from the early cars. The manifold has shorter runners and a link piece from the collecter to the turbo. 
Here's some more pics of that manifold. Note the air inlet runner along the head flange for the anti lag system. It has a recirculatig BOV in the pipe from turbo to intercooler that on lift off, dumps the air into the exhaust where a little extra fuel is waiting and crack crack crack, anti lag is born


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## cnbrown (May 31, 2001)

*Re: WRC Baby! (polov8)*

I just wish the general public could get the vbanded turbine inlet!! Great score man...


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: WRC Baby! (cnbrown)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cnbrown* »_I just wish the general public could get the vbanded turbine inlet!! Great score man...

I think that is the hot side, not the cold(inlet) side


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## cnbrown (May 31, 2001)

*Re: WRC Baby! (fatfreevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fatfreevw* »_
I think that is the hot side, not the cold(inlet) side
 It is, turbine inlet


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## radoboy (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: WRC Baby! (fatfreevw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fatfreevw* »_
I think that is the hot side, not the cold(inlet) side

Turbine inlet.
edit: damn beat me to it


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## andymatthew (Dec 22, 2001)

*Re: WRC Baby! (radoboy)*


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## xanthus (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: WRC Baby! (hkk735)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hkk735* »_all that and they still use worm gear clamps http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Those are not typical worm gear clamps. They are made specifically for silicone hoses. The worm gear is pressed into the outer face of the band, and they have rolled edges to prevent abrasion. The inside surace is completely smooth except where the screw gear attaches.
LMK if you want more pictures.








That is defiantely one sweet turbo. I'd love seeing a antilag system on a dub. (Hopefully the paint around the engine bay own't burn.







)


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *xanthus* »_That is defiantely one sweet turbo. I'd love seeing a antilag system on a dub. (Hopefully the paint around the engine bay own't burn.







)

Well if the engine doesn't catch fire it'd be an improvement over the current one








I'm gonna build up an AEB with all the goodies and stick it on that ultimately, probably in my '78 Scirocco.


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## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

whats that anti-lag thing everyone here is talking about?


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## Clownracer v2 (Sep 2, 2001)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16V-Sauger* »_whats that anti-lag thing everyone here is talking about?

x2???


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (Clownracer v2)*

Anti lag is a system by which when the throttle is released for changing up a gear, fuel is dumped into the engine, passes straight through unburnt into the exhaust manifold, and ignites in the hot manifold before the turbo, causing a massive increase in volume, and spooling the turbo up, (or keeping it spooled up rather) ready for the driver to get on it in the next gear. In the case of the Ford Focus WRC car, the BOV dumps air into the exhaust manifold too, so there is a nice fuel/air mixture which burns very efficiently and effectively.
It is however very unkind to the average turbo, and reduces life span quite a bit. This is part of the reason why this tubo is a bit special, as it is specifically designed to cope with this. It's due to the Anti lag that Rally cars, and many other Turbo race cars spit flames out of the exhaust. Something tells me it wouldn't do the average catalyst much good either








As a side point, Prodrive the team that builds the Subaru WRC cars recently built a one off road going concept car, to showcase they're ability to develop a complete road car. It uses Subaru mechanicals, and amongst other things, features a road going anti lag system they're developing that is more turbo friendly.


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## Assle (Oct 16, 2003)

*Re: (polov8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turbo company's website* »_ALS, or Anti-Lag System, also known as bang-bang, is an engine management technique that minimizes turbo-lag.
Turbo systems can exhibit what is known as turbo-lag, which is the time needed for the turbocharger to gain enough speed for the compressor wheel to pressurize the intercooler, tubing and intake-system of an engine.
The amount of turbo-lag or time, depends on many factors such as rotating-group inertia, how well the componenets in the system work together, back-pressure before and after the turbo, engine (volumetric) efficiency, camshaft spec, etc. . In race cars it is common to fit relatively large turbochargers in order to produce enough airflow to provide desired engine output. Big turbochargers can display significant amounts of lag (on small displacement engines) due to their increased rotational inertia. The lag-issue, is partly dealt with by fitting a turbo with a Dual, Ceramic Ball Bearing System in the center section, such as the system produced by Innovative Turbo Systems. Another helpful addition is the bypass valve or dump valve, which operates during part-throttle or when the driver lifts. These valves will help reduce the load on the turbo and allows it to free-wheel, keeping the rotational speed higher – thus reducing turbo-lag. In race cars where immediate torque and engine response are critical factors, most applications can benefit from the use of anti-lag systems.
How ALS works:
The ignition timing is retarded with 25-30° or more and the air/fuel mixture is made richer at low throttle opening and low load. With the ignition timing delayed, the air/fuel mixture reaches the exhaust tubes mostly unburned and because the exhaust system’s temperature is higher than the flash point of the air/fuel mix, the unburned fuel explodes in the exhaust tubes. The turbo is accelerated by the increased temperature/pressure and the rotational speed of the turbo is kept high. While ALS is engaged, full boost is available the moment the throttle is opened.
Some downsides:
An immediate increase in exhaust gas temperature (800°C to 1100°C+) whenever the system is activated puts greater demand on all turbo-system components - reliability becomes a major concern; the turbocharger and exhaust-manifold tubing must be made with the best available materials, driving the cost higher. ALS is prohibited from use in certain racing series.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

so, how does it work exactly? any pictures or something like that? what does these "ring" at the upper header? 
is it just reducing the ignition timings and getting a richer a/f?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16V-Sauger* »_what does these "ring" at the upper header? 


Which "rings"?The V-Bands?


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## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

http://i12.photobucket.com/alb...9.jpg
the "second exhaust port" above the normal one and its connection to the header


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16V-Sauger* »_http://i12.photobucket.com/alb...9.jpg
the "second exhaust port" above the normal one and its connection to the header

That's for the wastegate


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## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: (polov8)*

of course, but why does it have 2 connections to the header?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16V-Sauger* »_of course, but why does it have 2 connections to the header? 

Maybe for uniformity & flow?Anyone know?
Ford does some funky stuff with the WRC cars.


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## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

ok, so it has nothing to do with that anti-lag system?!


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*

Andy,can you tell me if this turbocharger is air cooled or water cooled?


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Air cooled, presumeably it's designed lifespan is such that watercooling is pointless.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (polov8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *polov8* »_Air cooled, presumeably it's designed lifespan is such that watercooling is pointless.









Bringing this back from the dead.
Skoda WRC uses a Garrett *TR*30R Turbocharger


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

just thought I'd drop a comment in ... the torque being high comes from the restrictor plate being in there doesn't it? If it were free flowing the torque wouldn't be quite as high ... right?


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## dhutchvento (May 8, 2006)

*Re: (polov8)*


_Quote, originally posted by *polov8* »_ It's due to the Anti lag that Rally cars, and many other Turbo race cars spit flames out of the exhaust. Something tells me it wouldn't do the average catalyst much good either










damn I wish my car could split flames -- hope the cops don't see me though.......


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (ExtremeVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ExtremeVR6* »_just thought I'd drop a comment in ... the torque being high comes from the restrictor plate being in there doesn't it? If it were free flowing the torque wouldn't be quite as high ... right?


correct. they're limited to 300hp. so the motors are designed to peak before 5252.


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## DMmagazine (Sep 27, 2006)

*Re: (TBT-Syncro)*









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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