# VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (2.8 24v) Stage 1 Turbo Kit Pictures



## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Hello Everyone,


We have just wrapped up the 2.8 24v VF RSS28 kit. This kit is based on the RSS32 kit that has been in development for approaching 2 years.
R32 uses heat sinked Lambda sensor ports. - Internally divided manifold cavity for dual bank OEM emissions regulation. 

Water, oil return and wastegate signal lines are stainless steel hardlined to minimize potential thermal problems and for high durability. 

Turbo location is tucked down as far away as possible from heat sensitive areas. 

Location of turbo and exhaust manifold design allow the use of the original double walled stainless heat shield. 

All emissions control equipment is intact and functional including readiness checking. 

MAF sensor uses a premium grade stainless steel honeycomb flow straightener. 

Integrated velocity stack design air filter to minimize turbulence in the MAF. 

MAF diameter increased to specific size based on signal range. Going too large on this can lead to many driveabilty problems. 

Generous 3.5 inlet plumbing and 2.5 compressor discharge to limit pumping losses. 

Full Garrett GT35 turbo cartridge, hot and cold sieds were selected to for efficiency and supply for a broad powerband. Overall powerband is broad and not just a peak number. 

Greddy type R valve with huge 47mm valve. This helps keep the shaft speed up during during shifts and having it set up to recirculate keeps the engine management system in check. 

Factory heat shield above CV joint is retained to protect boot from heat radiation. 

GIAC multi-mode programming with factory safe-guards and error reporting in place. Multi modes available. (Race mode subject to testing)

Tial 44mm wastegate with VF designed heat shield. 44 mm chosen to minimize the potential problem of boost creep. 

Oil return hose is two part. Upper part is a stainless steel hardline to prevent heat related damage due to close proxity to down-pipe and turbine housing. Second part is Teflon lined with a stainless steel cover. All are attached with AN fittings to make removal and assembly in the area easy. 

R32 Keeps OEM design of two catalytic converters in parallel. This can allow much more flow area than a single converter of the same style for less back pressure. 

2.8 24v designed for use with OEM cat. Must be welded, or can upgraded to R32 style dual cats. 

Bosch injectors have a factory style dual split spray pattern. 

All fasteners are OEM grade. 

Downpipe is two piece stainless steel. V-Band break point allows easier access for services like clutch or transmission work. 

Support bracket to triangulate the weight of the turbo-manifold package to improve durability. 

Just wanted to share some pictures with you guys

















R32







2.8 24v







2.8 24v

Here is the top views with everything back together.










Secondary Air Injection ports machined into manifold.

Upper downpipe showing V-Band break for ease of service

Hardline to wastegate for durability

Oil supply hose showing heat sleeve and heat tube. Also showing bracket and cushion clamp










This complete assembly installs as a single unit










Turbo is tucked up nice and tight against the back of the block where the hot parts are less exposed to parts that should not see glowing metal.










Location of turbo and design of exhaust manifold allows the use of the original double walled stainless steel heat shield. This is an extremely effective way to keep heat away from whatever is on the other side of the shield.

Stainless hardline mounted with cushion clamp from bottom of the water reservoir to firewall

Manifold shown is for an R32 which uses 2 O2’s in the manifold. The 24v uses a single bank system where there is one O2 in the down-pipe.











VF-E oil supply banjo.










Compressor location

Oil supply banjo installed with Goodridge PTFE hose

Top right shows top of water hardlines with AN adapters installed










CV heat shield mounted to protect boot from melting

Upper and lower support bracket shown. This two piece design makes clutch or transmission jobs much easier.

R32 Shown. 2.8 24v also uses a support bracket.



V-Band shown where upper and lower 3” down-pipe join. Having this break point allows much more service freedom than one piece designs

R32 Shown, 2.8 uses a single secondary downpipe that mates to stock converter.

2.8 owners can use the RSS32 lower downpipe to upgrade to R32 style dual cats.











R32 Lower downpipe mounted. Showing CV joint heat shield.

















2.8 24v cat details above 2 images










R32 Support brackets shown.

Some detail of Water hardlines.










MAF showing stainless honeycomb flow straightener. 










Oil supply bracket to compressor housing.










44mm Tial Wastegate showing VF made heat shield.




















Compressor to throttle body pipe.

Barely showing huge BPV (hooking up the second port reduced cracking pressure about 50% for better low load behavior)











Plenum Block off for the leak prone hose that does nothing on the 24v











Support bracket break point shown

Bottom corner of oil return hard line

Showing break point and PTFE(teflon) hose

No temperature sensitive rubber based hose in sight of manifold or turbine

Retail price is $6900
*


 VF Engineering RSS32 "Beta" Turbo kit dyno.  
VF Engineering RSS32 Stage 1 Turbo Kit Pictures 
VF-Turbo Stg1 on RACE GAS - power unloads.(at VF-E) 
VF-Turbo Stg1 on a Mustang AWD - vids / plots / pics (at GIAC) 
VF R32T Let the installations begin! 
A big THANK YOU to VF Engineering for hosting today's SoCal R32 GTG!!! 
Product Review: VF Engineering RSS-32 Turbo Kit 
First VF RSS32 remote install complete! Lots of pics, fairly long. 
I will post up the dyno chart from our test car in the next day or so. Let me know if anyone has any questions!

Jeff Moss

_Modified by [email protected] at 9:01 AM 5-8-2009_










_Modified by [email protected] at 2:25 PM 5-10-2009_


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (2.8 24v) Stage 1 Turbo Kit Pictures ([email protected])*































http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ChinaTownCBC (May 10, 2003)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (2.8 24v) Stage 1 Turbo Kit Pictures ([email protected])*








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RastaBOB (Apr 28, 2004)

been waiting for this!!! very nice
any plans on releasing a stage 2 kit with intercooler for us ppl living in the desert???


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## limastock (Feb 17, 2009)

*Re: (RastaBOB)*

This... looks... _AWESOME_


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## enim (Jan 3, 2008)

*FV-QR*

Wieviel kostet es?!?!?
I want one. So Bad. So. So. Bad.


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## [email protected]ring (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (RastaBOB)*

Thanks everyone!
We are working on the intercooled package for the R32 right now and it should retrofit to the 2.8 24v with little drama. When that is wrapped up on the R32 we will have to get another 24v into the shop for testing and tuning








Adding pricing now. Will add dyno and video later.


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## enim (Jan 3, 2008)

I'll beta if it's free


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## vr6jettagli (Mar 30, 2008)

oooo must have!!!!!!!!! Im defintely saving up for this kit.....


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## vdubb24v (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (vr6jettagli)*

sweet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Thanks everyone!
We are working on the intercooled package for the R32 right now and it should retrofit to the 2.8 24v with little drama. When that is wrapped up on the R32 *we will have to get another 24v into the shop for testing and tuning







*
Adding pricing now. Will add dyno and video later.

Let me know if you guys need a test car


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## Medic83 (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*

WOW...Looks good so far!


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## Emron (Mar 27, 2007)

I have dibs on test car... plus, I'm closer








I'll drop some cash on it, too









EDIT:
My engine is bone stock


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (Emron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Emron* »_I have dibs on test car... plus, I'm closer








I'll drop some cash on it, too









EDIT:
My engine is bone stock









I think that VF would choose to hook up those that are their current customers before choosing just some random person.. Especially since the supercharged guys have been waiting and waiting and waiting for their stage 3. Just my 2 cents.


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## Skeil (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_ Just my 2 cents.









Hhmm I wonder which would be* easier*, test fitting an intercooler setup on a bone stock engine, or one with a vf supercharger.... Just my 2 cents.








Its just wishful thinking.
This turbo kit is looking really good, and pricey.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (Skeil)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Skeil* »_
Hhmm I wonder which would be* easier*, test fitting an intercooler setup on a bone stock engine, or one with a vf supercharger.... Just my 2 cents.








Its just wishful thinking.
This turbo kit is looking really good, and pricey.

Are you saying that it's impossible for the car's owner to have their S/C kit uninstalled in order to meet VF's needs?


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
I think that VF would choose to hook up those that are their current customers before choosing just some random person.. Especially since the supercharged guys have been waiting and waiting and waiting for their stage 3. Just my 2 cents.









Amen








But whatever is easier for VF, as long as they get it done.
I'd prefer a set up with the intercooler and lowered compression for more boost.


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## Skeil (Dec 12, 2006)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
Are you saying that it's impossible for the car's owner to have their S/C kit uninstalled in order to meet VF's needs?









NO, I was just saying it would be less of a hassle if there was no kit to remove.
My apologies if my post sounds pissy...


_Modified by Skeil at 3:10 PM 5-9-2009_


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## hiatussk8rs (Jul 30, 2003)

*Re: (Skeil)*

what does it put to the wheels


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (hiatussk8rs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hiatussk8rs* »_what does it put to the wheels

My guess is about low 300's, on 10-12 psi and stock compression.


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## Emron (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
I think that VF would choose to hook up those that are their current customers before choosing just some random person.. Especially since the supercharged guys have been waiting and waiting and waiting for their stage 3. Just my 2 cents.









A customer of VF Engineering, I am.
A random person, I am not.

I'm a member of this forum, a participant in this thread, and an owner of a 24v VR6 GTI, therefore I am not a random person








I've been to their shop and I've met Jeff








Anyway, they never said they are looking for a test vehicle. If they were, they'd find their own, as one of their employees probably has a 24v VR6 (maybe not, though).


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (hiatussk8rs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hiatussk8rs* »_what does it put to the wheels

I'm guessing around 310-320 whp also.
I just noticed the price.. I'm pretty dissappointed about it because of the lack of other goodies that should be coming with a kit of this magnitude.. given the price. While it may produce 300+ whp on the dyno... that says absolutely nothing once you try to make the motor do it repeatedly for extended periods of time.. like on a track perhaps. If I'm gonna pay damn near 7 grand for a kit, it better at least come intercooled. I'm no expert when it comes to turbos, but I do know what heat soak is and I would have hoped that VF would have taken measures to prevent it if they're not going to make an effort to make this an economically priced kit.


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## dubdoor (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (2.8 24v) Stage 1 Turbo Kit Pictures ([email protected])*

...and while competition is great, it would seem to me VF has shown up to the track meet an half an hour late and entered a fat girl wearing diamond-studded high heels...


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (dubdoor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubdoor* »_...and while competition is great, it would seem to me VF has shown up to the track meet an half an hour late and entered a fat girl wearing diamond-studded high heels... 
















x2


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
I'm guessing around 310-320 whp also.
I just noticed the price.. I'm pretty dissappointed about it because of the lack of other goodies that should be coming with a kit of this magnitude.. given the price. While it may produce 300+ whp on the dyno... that says absolutely nothing once you try to make the motor do it repeatedly for extended periods of time.. like on a track perhaps. If I'm gonna pay damn near 7 grand for a kit, it better at least come intercooled. I'm no expert when it comes to turbos, but I do know what heat soak is and I would have hoped that VF would have taken measures to prevent it if they're not going to make an effort to make this an economically priced kit.

Well, I see your point....BUT, being at the VF and meeting Nik and seeing him work on my car for a race gas tune and talking to him I can assure you that that price is worth every penny.
You can pretty much piece a kit together and throw it on your car and have 400hp, but how reliable is it gonna be, or how long will you have it? Guys at the VF really does their homework before releasing their product.
You'll have a turn key car with no CEL and your car is gonna feel like a factory 24V VR6 car until you hit the boost.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
Well, I see your point....BUT, being at the VF and meeting Nik and seeing him work on my car for a race gas tune and talking to him I can assure you that that price is worth every penny.
You can pretty much piece a kit together and throw it on your car and have 400hp, but how reliable is it gonna be, or how long will you have it? Guys at the VF really does their homework before releasing their product.
You'll have a turn key car with no CEL and your car is gonna feel like a factory 24V VR6 car until you hit the boost.


I completely agree with what you're saying. I trust VF when it comes to producing high quality parts and tuning them to perfection. The only thing is that I am confident that companies such as C2 will be able to produce just as good of a tune/kit without any reliability issues, for less money. At this point, I am way more concerned about getting a good bang for my buck rather than avoiding problematic kits. With that being said, VF cut way too big of a corner by deciding not to include an intercooler with a $6,900 kit.


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## vdubb24v (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
I completely agree with what you're saying. I trust VF when it comes to producing high quality parts and tuning them to perfection. The only thing is that I am confident that companies such as C2 will be able to produce just as good of a tune/kit without any reliability issues, for less money. At this point, I am way more concerned about getting a good bang for my buck rather than avoiding problematic kits. With that being said, VF cut way too big of a corner by deciding not to include an intercooler with a $6,900 kit. 



I understand VF and top notch quality/reliability go together, but stoned has a point. There is no way i can afford to have a non intercooled kit.. im in FL, where im all to familiar with heat soak.
It can also be noted that paying that money up front for this kit will 99% insure you wont have to spend money down the road for problems, which, in the end, will cost more than 7K. 
Its VF engineering, I wonder what kind of warranty this kit has http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (dubdoor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubdoor* »_...and while competition is great, it would seem to me VF has shown up to the track meet an half an hour late and entered a fat girl wearing diamond-studded high heels... 









haha..i lol'd at this cause its true.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*FV-QR*









dyno added to original post also.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (Emron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Emron* »_I have dibs on test car... plus, I'm closer








I'll drop some cash on it, too









EDIT:
My engine is bone stock









Thanks for your enthusiasm!
Give Sean a call and see if there is something you guys can work out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
Amen








But whatever is easier for VF, as long as they get it done.
I'd prefer a set up with the intercooler and lowered compression for more boost.

Hi Rav,
This setup includes a headspacer, OEM gaskets, bolts, modified timing chain guide and spacer for the chain tensioner. This is all needed to lower the compression. I am not at the shop today for the exact figures, but compression is down to around 9:1.
This kit is an evolution of the R32 RSS32 kit that has been in testing for nearly 2 years. As for heat soak many of the FMIC cars have cooling problems on the road courses we have tested them on. A good IC setup would make a bit more power, but not help with engine cooling. This kit is meant to be a VERY thorough entry level kit. We are currently working on MK5 R32, A3/TT 3.2 and MK4 R32 for kits in many different stages including a liquid to air setup.
LMK if you have any more questions, thanks for your interest!


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
You can pretty much piece a kit together and throw it on your car and have 400hp, but how reliable is it gonna be, or how long will you have it?


depends who is installing it. most of the time reliability issues are user error.
which is why I agree with the idea that "if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it". I'm sure VF's kit will be reliable, but the safety of intercooler to keep everything cooler is always a plus, as well as a different intake manifold.
For the price of this kit, you can have a full intercooled/SRI/lowered compression kit from c2.
Sorry but this is far from competitively priced, and at this price, you're paying for a name.








all of this IMO, obviously.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (hiatussk8rs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hiatussk8rs* »_what does it put to the wheels

Dyno was just posted. 91 octane, stock two stage cat (OEM cat has a built in warm up pre cat) and a modest exhaust system. 
Nice clean tune from GIAC http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Mike Pauciullo (Jan 8, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*

thats a lot of money for 300whp


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
I'm guessing around 310-320 whp also.
I just noticed the price.. I'm pretty dissappointed about it because of the lack of other goodies that should be coming with a kit of this magnitude.. given the price. While it may produce 300+ whp on the dyno... that says absolutely nothing once you try to make the motor do it repeatedly for extended periods of time.. like on a track perhaps. If I'm gonna pay damn near 7 grand for a kit, it better at least come intercooled. I'm no expert when it comes to turbos, but I do know what heat soak is and I would have hoped that VF would have taken measures to prevent it if they're not going to make an effort to make this an economically priced kit.

Hi Silver,
We have included many bells, whistles and premium hardware to make this seeming basic kit very comprehensive:
2x oem headgaskets

OEM VW Head bolts. I know many use the ARP or other studs, but I have always been really happy with OEM and there lack of drama.

VF Stainless head spacer to lower compression

Modified timing chain guide

Timing chain tensioner spacer with integrated oil supply fitting

Heat shielded Goodridge PTFE oil supply hose

Turbo coolant lines are stainless hardlines

Upper oil return is stainless steel hardline

Lower section of oil return to pan is Goodridge PTFE hose

Proper turbo support bracket

Exhaust manifold is divided internally similar to the OEM manifold design

Uses OEM double walled stainless heat shield for a great thermal barrier

Fasteners used are OEM grade

Tial 44mm wastegate

Greddy Type R set to recirculate

Garrett GT35R

V-Band break point from upper down-pipe to lower down-pipe. This makes service like clutch work much easier

All emission control devices functioning and readiness codes functioning. This include SAI functionality

Supplied MAF housing uses a high grade stainless honeycomb for best driveabilty

Air filter uses an integrated velocity stack to MAF. Helps give consistent readings.

Bosch injectors selected with consideration to unique 24v placement and port issues

With higher flowing cats, and a larger exhaust 310+ whp is easily attainable. 
You are welcome to come by for a visit and I will give you the walk around he hardware if you wish.
Thanks for your interest.
Jeff Moss


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (dubdoor)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubdoor* »_...and while competition is great, it would seem to me VF has shown up to the track meet an half an hour late and entered a fat girl wearing diamond-studded high heels... 

















I have to laugh, that is funny.
We have been hard at work developing a series of kits for the 24v platform for nearly 2 years. Hope you guys enjoy them, has been a labor of love.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Hi Rav,
This setup includes a headspacer, OEM gaskets, bolts, modified timing chain guide and spacer for the chain tensioner. This is all needed to lower the compression. I am not at the shop today for the exact figures, but compression is down to around 9:1.
This kit is an evolution of the R32 RSS32 kit that has been in testing for nearly 2 years. As for heat soak many of the FMIC cars have cooling problems on the road courses we have tested them on. A good IC setup would make a bit more power, but not help with engine cooling. This kit is meant to be a VERY thorough entry level kit. We are currently working on MK5 R32, A3/TT 3.2 and MK4 R32 for kits in many different stages including a liquid to air setup.
LMK if you have any more questions, thanks for your interest!










Nice, what if you raise the boost will the ECU compensate for the extra air?


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
Nice, what if you raise the boost will the ECU compensate for the extra air?

I'm guessing that you can't raise it all due to the fact that VF has already reached the limits of not having an intercooler on this setup. bummer... eh. I'm also guessing that the same will be true once they release the stage 2 setup because they will have reached the limitations of the stock manifold... From what I have read, there won't be any thoughts of including an SRI with the release of stage 2... Gotta make room for stage 3, duh..


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_From what I have read, there won't be any thoughts of including an SRI with the release of stage 2... Gotta make room for stage 3, duh..

wouldnt be surprised.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_
Nice, what if you raise the boost will the ECU compensate for the extra air?

To a certain extent it will. For the more powerful stages we will be including an upgraded fuel pump and software with appropriate changes.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
I'm guessing that you can't raise it all due to the fact that VF has already reached the limits of not having an intercooler on this setup. bummer... eh. I'm also guessing that the same will be true once they release the stage 2 setup because they will have reached the limitations of the stock manifold... From what I have read, there won't be any thoughts of including an SRI with the release of stage 2... Gotta make room for stage 3, duh..

One of the reasons an FMIC is not a completely positive idea is that many of our clients spend time racing their cars on road courses and prior experiences have shown that a FMIC of adequate size can have have a negative impact on engine cooling. Hot air may be bad for power, but within reason does not cause a car to overheat.
This does NOT mean that we are not working on intercooling. We are.
What is the "Limitation" of the stock manifold? We have run 20 psi on them without them splitting. We do have some issue with the packaging compromises...


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
What is the "Limitation" of the stock manifold? We have run 20 psi on them without them splitting. We do have some issue with the packaging compromises...


everyone around here believes over 12psi the plastic intake manifold will pop. Every one is different though, im sure.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
One of the reasons an FMIC is not a completely positive idea is that many of our clients spend time racing their cars on road courses and prior experiences have shown that a FMIC of adequate size can have have a negative impact on engine cooling. Hot air may be bad for power, but within reason does not cause a car to overheat.
This does NOT mean that we are not working on intercooling. We are.
What is the "Limitation" of the stock manifold? We have run 20 psi on them without them splitting. We do have some issue with the packaging compromises...

When I say that I am concerned about heat soak, I am saying that I am concerned about the way the power is effected.... I understand that the overall engine temperature is of no worry.
Take a look at how this dyno compares to yours. This one is from a 12v VR that IS intercooled with a little more boost. What I want to make a note of is the shape of the curve and how much more torque you get due to the lower intake temps. The VRT that produced this dyno has nothing else special that could realistically effect the characteristics of the power curve, besides different software and also having an intercooler. I'm going to automatically assume that VF's tune is perfect. This difference in power delivery is what makes VF's kit lose value, IMHO. The reason for the difference in the shape of the curve is because you're not getting the full potential out of the 10-11 psi of boost, simply because of the lack of an intercooler.
Here's the link to where I found this dyno.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3233296 


















_Modified by silverstoned83 at 8:10 PM 5-10-2009_


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (One Gray GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_
everyone around here believes over 12psi the plastic intake manifold will pop. Every one is different though, im sure.

From what I remember reading was that they can't handle much over 15 psi.. I know that someone on the vortex had one pop at around 16 psi, if I remember correctly. He ended up patching it up with a piece of metal riveted/epoxied down.


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
From what I remember reading was that they can't handle much over 15 psi.. I know that someone on the vortex had one pop at around 16 psi, if I remember correctly. He ended up patching it up with a piece of metal riveted/epoxied down.

eh I run 12-13psi every day, no cracks in mine yet. i have it painted so I'll see when it starts wanting to go. I have a short runner on the way though..so it's not a big deal. But yeah, I'm sure if you don't stay in boost for long periods of time 15-16psi is fine. depends on driving habits too.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (One Gray GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_eh I run 12-13psi every day, no cracks in mine yet. i have it painted so I'll see when it starts wanting to go. I have a short runner on the way though..so it's not a big deal. But yeah, I'm sure if you don't stay in boost for long periods of time 15-16psi is fine. depends on driving habits too.

Ever seen this before?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3698825 












_Modified by silverstoned83 at 8:19 PM 5-10-2009_


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*

ya I saw that, dubdoor I think has a riveted one as well.
I'm sure that it was caused by a higher gear pull though where you're in boost for longer.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (One Gray GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_ya I saw that, dubdoor I think has a riveted one as well.
I'm sure that it was caused by a higher gear pull though where you're in boost for longer. 

I'm gonna stick with not assuming anything....


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
I'm gonna stick with not assuming anything....

Agreed. Maybe I'll test the limit of the intake manifold before I install the short runner for the hell of it.


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (One Gray GLI)*

I have 20 bux that says it won't handle 20 pounds.


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_I have 20 bux that says it won't handle 20 pounds.









i dont think I wanna test it that much.


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (One Gray GLI)*

How come?? VF says it's fine..


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*

I am not sure I see your point here. But not sure if anything I say will make a diff to you...
VF test car has a Stock 2 stage cat, mild exhaust and 91 octane.
Other car has 3 more psi, no cats, and 3 inch exhaust. Fuel is unlisted and very unlikely to be 91 octane.
At 2500 rpms VF is + 20ish ft/lbs
3000 + 75ish ft/lbs
3500 + 100ish ft/lbs
4000 + 70 ft/lbs
4500 + 10-20 ft/lbs
5000 - 20ish ft/lbs
5500 - 60ish ft/lbs
6000 - 45 ft/lbs
6500 - 20 ft/lbs

From what I see the VF set-up has a much broader powerband. If exhaust was uncorked and octane increased slightly the results would look much different.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
Ever seen this before?
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3698825 








_Modified by silverstoned83 at 8:19 PM 5-10-2009_


Wow! Nice shot of some destruction. 
We have not seen that problem first hand, but if that becomes an issue we can and will make an improved part.


----------



## bomb10shell (Mar 6, 2008)

Hi all! I'm the one with this beta vr6 straight from VF this weekend. Just finished an easy break in driving from Anaheim, CA to Yuma, AZ and then finally to my home in Prescott Valley, AZ. In this nearly 550 mile drive, I have had no problems whatsoever. The guys at VF have been great getting this kit up and running on my car. Since getting home, I've done a couple harder test drives, just to see what exactly I got myself into. I have to say, its very nice to be in 3rd pulling 80mph and having a smooth shift into 4th. The power band is awesome, starting at around 3000 rpms and never quits. It's amazing what the guys at VF have done with this kit. Temps sit right at 190, just like stock, even driving through the desert at 100+ temps. No CELs, no studdering, no problems, just a car that wants to get up and go, and has no problems doing so. IMO- WELL worth the money and time for all the effort these guys have put into this. The car feels flawless, like it was always meant to have a turbo


----------



## WusteHase (Jun 16, 2006)

*Re: (Emron)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Emron* »_I have dibs on test car... plus, I'm closer








I'll drop some cash on it, too









EDIT:
My engine is bone stock









Think you're a bit too late if you're offering to beta the turbo kit, as my wife's car was it







As for the FMIC or aftercooler, I do believe she'll be volunteering for that as well.
Having driven both of VF's iteration of stage 1 turbo kits, I can tell you all that I am seriously impressed. My car has been from the cold snow:








To the southern desert in 100+ degree weather:








And has run beautifully in both. Laura's 2.8 runs very smooth. No hiccups, lurching, bad starts, nada. Can't wait to see what VF has planned for us for stage 2 down the road. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif To all the VF guys, and







for Jeff for the all the help he's been.


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: (WusteHase)*

Let's bump this








I do believe that our manifold can take more boost with proper tune.


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_I do believe that our manifold can take more boost with proper tune.

How does the tune effect the amount of boost the manifold can handle? I don't believe the two have anything to do with one another. Even if it was an EIP tune... I believe that would require some serious tuning flaws for something like that to happen. 
The bottom line is that it has happened, and without anyone testing it to see just how much pressure it can handle... no one should assume anything. If you ask me, any signs of not being able to handle boost tells me that this manifold is not safe above minimal boost pressures due to the fact that usually you would want some cushion between a part's operating load and it's maximum load capacity. 5-10 psi from distruction is not enough cushion for me, IMO.


_Modified by silverstoned83 at 2:57 PM 5-16-2009_


----------



## RastaBOB (Apr 28, 2004)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxdzqETBPBY


----------



## TheRedMouse (Jan 22, 2006)

I dont know, after waiting and waiting for stage 3 for the SC kit they produced, are they do the same to the people who buy the stage one turbo kits?
Promise a next stage, more power etc and then let the kit die off?
After purchasing my blower kit from VF, and then start seeing all the turbo kits coming out for the 24v that are around the same price as the less powerful blower, i def regret it. 
This kit looks quality like anything else VF comes out with, but the price is rediculously high for the power and the hardware you get.
I dunno id rather save the $3k and go c2 stage one.
Thats just me though.
I dunno.


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

So how's the warranty work on these kits? What if I sold the car down the road, with the kit included... What do I get to tell the customer when they find out that they found a car with a VF turbo kit?


----------



## Lew_Dog (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (nickg)*









Everytime I needed replacement parts for my USED Stage 2 kit not only did I get them, I got them super fast. If you got a problem with them, don't go crying all over Vortex. Contact Nik to get it resolved.
Now..Back to this turbo kit.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MrMoon (Dec 23, 2008)

*Re: (nickg)*

seven thousand dollars for a turbo kit for a 24 valve that does not make more than 300 whp


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: (MrMoon)*

now this thread is getting interesting, although I'd love to hear VF's side to all this.
Why the steep price for sub-300whp? I understand R&D costs and such, but with competitors like Kinetic and C2, and the reliability of c2's kits so far, 7k+ is steep, and it'd be illogical to go with this.
And I'd love to hear the argument on the parts and warranty issue on either FI kits. God forbid something does break, the owner of said kit would be screwed? Even if the car was traded to a new owner, the kit was still bought, it was produced by VF, so I feel VF should warranty it.
But hey, that's my two cents.


----------



## WusteHase (Jun 16, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *MrMoon* »_seven thousand dollars for a turbo kit for a 24 valve that does not make more than 300 whp










Wife's car dynoed at 302.
I stand collected










_Modified by WusteHase at 11:09 PM 6-3-2009_


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (WusteHase)*

I was hoping that there would be something a little more significant than that considering that this kit's price has put it into a whole new class... like it's special. Being able to claim to be the only company to have produced a kit that has broken 300 whp without an intercooler is not exactly what gets me to dish out the $$$$.


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (WusteHase)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WusteHase* »_
Edit: Also, please point me at any other turbo kits dedicated for the 2.8l and not the R32 (that make over 300hp without an intercooler please)

_Modified by WusteHase at 7:04 PM 6-3-2009_

The VR6ster - 331.8whp non-intercooled
bottom of the page is a dyno sheet, just FYI
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Tom Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_
The VR6ster - 331.8whp non-intercooled
bottom of the page is a dyno sheet, just FYI
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2


You found it! I knew there was one out there.


----------



## MrMoon (Dec 23, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (WusteHase)*

for about the same price you can get the c2 stage 3 kit which includes an intercooler, short runner intake, and is supposedly capable of 500whp+
seems like a much better deal
https://www.c2motorsports.net/....aspx


_Modified by MrMoon at 10:48 PM 6-3-2009_


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

jeez... all these lucky people getting to be beta testers... 
i remember back last year when the VF.r32kit was announced, first thing i did was contact VF and was told i was to be put on the testers list... kept contacting...then when i called and finally got info i was told i had to pay them to let them use my car as R&D.
now its a 7k$ kit ? i know Vf is good stuff, but wow thats alot and for 7k even with *professional installation anyone could pull way more power from the other kits.


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (WusteHase)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WusteHase* »_
Wife's car dynoed at 302.
Edit: Also, please point me at any other turbo kits dedicated for the 2.8l and not the R32 (that make over 300hp without an intercooler please)


Why non-intercooled? There are kits with an intercooler AND an intake manifold AND a low comp hg spacer for around the same price. Your attempt at a comparison doesn't really have any logic behind it.








And the c2 kit uses quality parts. Besides the air filter maybe, so don't give me that bull.










_Modified by One Gray GLI at 11:27 PM 6-3-2009_


----------



## 24ValveGLI (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (WusteHase)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WusteHase* »_

Edit: Also, please point me at any other turbo kits dedicated for the 2.8l and not the R32 (that make over 300hp without an intercooler please)


A couple people on c2's kits have made ridiculous numbers compaired to this. $7499 gets you Stage 3 C2, which has shown 550+WHP on Tom Longs car. Granted his is a built motor, but to make that power VF's kits would normally (to be safe) be built as well. 300hp is nothing for 7000 dollars, just like everyone else has said it doesn't make sense to go with VF even with their certain accessories. 
Buy C2 Stage 1+ - $4200 
All stainless hard-lines and all the extra necessities you want - $1000 at most.
330WHP proven = $5200 
And with an extra 2000 dollars for Headstuds, SRI and a HG, you have a 400+ WHP monster and no need to change companies to get these parts.
Verses
VF - 302WHP which has been made on the supercharger kits - $7000+
In my mind its a no brainer, but I may be biases due to having a built motor and a C2 kit.


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

I bet the guys at C2 just love this. Their name is in the thread just about as many times as VF's.







They deserve it.


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (Lew_Dog)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Lew_Dog* »_








Everytime I needed replacement parts for my USED Stage 2 kit not only did I get them, I got them super fast. If you got a problem with them, don't go crying all over Vortex. Contact Nik to get it resolved.
Now..Back to this turbo kit.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

What are you getting so defensive for? Is it wrong to want to know how the warranty works?? All I'm trying to do is clear up what I believe to be a commonly misunderstood truth. I'm not sure I understand why you think I'm crying all over the vortex... If a company has a certain way of conducting business that I disagree with, I'll make sure to point it out... whether you enjoy reading it or not.


----------



## Lew_Dog (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
What are you getting so defensive for? Is it wrong to want to know how the warranty works?? All I'm trying to do is clear up what I believe to be a commonly misunderstood truth. I'm not sure I understand why you think I'm crying all over the vortex... If a company has a certain way of conducting business that I disagree with, I'll make sure to point it out... whether you enjoy reading it or not.

Don't get your panties in a knot..That wasn't for you...If you got something to say to me, send it PM. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

so ummm... while u ladies are pms'ing
the questions still havent been answered
- why is a 7k$ kit barely squeezing 300whp (SC kits can make that much for half the cost... )
- how does the warranty TRULY work?
-


----------



## 24ValveGLI (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_MANGv2* »_so ummm... while u ladies are pms'ing
the questions still havent been answered
- why is a 7k$ kit barely squeezing 300whp (SC kits can make that much for half the cost... )
- how does the warranty TRULY work?
-

Great point http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## glivdub03 (Aug 18, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (24ValveGLI)*

your better off piecing a kit together you will spend alot less money http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but vf's kit is very nice and super clean i just cant picture myself ever spending 7 grand for that much power







someone needs to come out with a kit for less money otherwise the 24v will become very unpopular very quick


----------



## Bdfrd 24v (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (glivdub03)*


_Quote, originally posted by *glivdub03* »_your better off piecing a kit together you will spend alot less money http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif but vf's kit is very nice and super clean i just cant picture myself ever spending 7 grand for that much power







someone needs to come out with a kit for less money otherwise the 24v will become very unpopular very quick










There are several other kits available for varying prices at varying power levels...
I've had VF supercharger kits. stage 1 then stage 2, and they were good people to work with. I went turbo, when C2 came out with their kit. I was one of the first if not the first on here to have my kit delivered. Minor glitches caused a few others to have theirs together first.


----------



## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (2.8 24v) Stage 1 Turbo Kit Pictures ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_









Plenum Block off for the leak prone hose that does nothing on the 24v


_Modified by [email protected] at 2:25 PM 5-10-2009_

the kit looks awesome, and EXTREMELY well built ! 
3 questions.
1) can you give me any more information on the above quoted part? Just curious what effect it would have blocking this plenum area on a NA motor. I am trying to find a PIA vacuum leak now... so ill look at this area again.
2) I didn't read the thread to see if you posted, but what PSI is the kit being run at?
3) Whats the expected install time on this kit?


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

i was curious about that rubber butt plug also...


----------



## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

That nipple with a black cap does nothing, I don't know why VW put it there in the first place, it connects to the pipe on the right (the one above) and if you take that off you'll see that it doesn't go anywhere, it's just blocked.
The reason I think VF puts that black cap is beacause the original hose from there is plastic and could cause a vaccum leak...to prevent that, it's better to just block it off with that cap.


----------



## qsilverza (Jun 10, 2007)

I concur, when I decide to go FI, it will be C2 since this just isn't enough power for the money. Power isn't everything but at half price, I can afford another engine !


----------



## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: (qsilverza)*

I think the price is not that bad considering what your getting ... GT3582R, 44mm WG... a nice strong looking turbo manifold and every thing is machined to very tight tolerances with good placement in the both the engine bay and the actual plumbing of the turbo system.
Also, I don't know why people are crying about the power #s, just because they dyno'd it at 280 whp at a low PSI doesn't mean that is all the kit can make, in theory it should be able to make a lot more than that... you can turn up the boost.







In fact the GT35R should have a better powerband and more than suitable peak numbers for this setup than other turbo kits using journal bearing setups and less efficient housings.
Also this kit includes:
a 44mm WG with what appears to be a better location
a Stainless steel head spacer
a GT35R
a great DV Greddy>Bosch
a very strong looking turbo manifold
awesome looking turbo plumbing for the oil lines, fittings and etc.
if anything this kit is more comparable to the Stage II C2 kit, which drops compression and also offers the advantage of a SRI... and being lower cost.
each kit has its own pro's and con's


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (c0ntract_thrilla)*

Really..? The GT35r, a 44mm WG, and the cast iron exhaust manifold (which should be a tubular manifold) are the best things that you could come up with to justify the price??? 
People are "crying" about the power #'s because 280 whp is a sorry excuse to price this kit where they have. I understand the potential that ANY turbo system has, but I am more concerned about what I'm getting for my money. Unfortunately, there's plenty of competition that has already been proven to be reliable and most importantly.... they all put out more power for less cost. I don't think I'm crying, I think I'm being an educated buyer.


----------



## Lew_Dog (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_ I don't think I'm crying, I think I'm being an educated buyer.

No....You're crying...Here, have some:








I'm a believer that you get what you pay for. So yeah, I'd pay more for better R&D, design, and a bombproof VF kit. Their S/C kit proved that to me... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by Lew_Dog at 1:45 PM 6-23-2009_


_Modified by Lew_Dog at 1:46 PM 6-23-2009_


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (Lew_Dog)*

I'm a firm believer in that too and I tend to have expensive taste for that reason... But give me one good reason why I should apply that saying to this kit when companies like EIP don't exist anymore. I'm pretty sure that C2 has a better reputation than that...








I will continue to "cry" whenever someone tries to make it sound like this kit is actually worth the cost.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

i dont have any experience with any of these turbo companies except that whilst building my kit each company said they'd be able to help me achieve wat i wanted but when it came down to $ each said i had to do it their way. if that makes sense?

anyways...
lucky charms = vf
GOLD STARS = c2/ kinetics
same **** yur just paying for the name right lol ?


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_
the kit looks awesome, and EXTREMELY well built ! 
3 questions.
1) can you give me any more information on the above quoted part? Just curious what effect it would have blocking this plenum area on a NA motor. I am trying to find a PIA vacuum leak now... so ill look at this area again.
2) I didn't read the thread to see if you posted, but what PSI is the kit being run at?
3) Whats the expected install time on this kit?

Hi Contract,
1. Cap is a part that was molded for VF specifically to block off the PCV on the 24v/R32 intake.
2. About 11 psi
3. Depends on skill level and amount of experience on th 24v VR6. Since this installs requires a cylinder head R and R adds about 1 day. If all goes smooth about 2 days with a familiar tech, I would allocate at least 3.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 ([email protected])*

Hello,
Been reading through the last few pages and am a bit dissapointed in how one dimensional many of the posters are being re. the benefit to $$ ratio when compared to other kits.
When I have some time later I will elaborate.


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 ([email protected])*

listen, if you offered a SRI with the kit for the same exact price, which would then enable more power to be made, since the intake manifold is one limiting factor, then it would be a bit more reasonable.


----------



## vdubb24v (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hello,
Been reading through the last few pages and am a bit dissapointed in how one dimensional many of the posters are being re. the benefit to $$ ratio when compared to other kits.
When I have some time later I will elaborate.
 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: VF Engineering RSS32 and RSS28 ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Hello,
Been reading through the last few pages and am a bit dissapointed in how one dimensional many of the posters are being re. the benefit to $$ ratio when compared to other kits.
When I have some time later I will elaborate.

I hope that I'm not apart of that one dimensional thinking theory that you have... 
I'm also forced to consider what the future is going to be like for your kit. If it's anything like your superchargers, that would suck. However, I doubt that will be the problem this time. Instead, the problem will be the overall price of what it will end up costing someone that wants an SRI.. air-to-water intercooler... etc. Unfortunately, no one knows yet what that cost will be.. I guess we're supposed to not worry about that and instead focus on the fact that this kit is made by VF and is tuned by GIAC..... and blah blah blah.


----------



## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

what if VF's kits are just 'quoting' numbers for selling/ safety/ emisions/ etc reasons?
like under rating the kit? i mean have faith in VF, its just that price...


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_MANGv2* »_what if VF's kits are just 'quoting' numbers for selling/ safety/ emisions/ etc reasons?
like under rating the kit? i mean have faith in VF, its just that price... 

Hi D_M,
The quoted power numbers are on 91 octane with the restrictive 2 stage OEM Catalyst in place. More octane and less backpressure would make a substantial difference.
As for the endless price debate this kit comes very complete and with many premium parts and details that as far as I have seen many of which are not included in other kits.
After thinking about how many people are responding in here I will not be dragged into an endless debate. If anyone wants me to answer technical questions or a point by point technical question I am open to that.
Take care all.
Jeff


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

So lets see.. let's compare this to c2 quick. 
-You guys use a Garrett Turbo instead of a Precision.
-You both use Tial Wastegates
-You both "create" your own HG spacers.
-Your kit comes with OEM head bolts. C2 comes with Racewares. (People change these because the OEM bolts are stretch bolts, thus the head has a possibility to lift at higher boost/power levels.
-You guys use a log manifold based on a SPA design, c2 uses a collector piece.
-C2's kit comes with an intercooler.
-C2's kit comes with a Short Runner Intake Manifold
So..in short.
For 600$ more, you can get the safety of an actual intercooler, not a stupid pipe running from the throttle body to the compressor housing, and the intake manifold not being a limiting factor in the amount of power you'd like to make.
Sorry that you feel this is a endless debate, but until you defend your product with more than just "oh, it has premium parts", it will most likely continue. Many of us see through the smokescreen. Maybe because we're not r32 owners.


----------



## vdubb24v (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*

idk honestly guys this is pathetic. i remember when vf was the only one doing anything for our motor and ever since others have stepped up to the plate, vf gets frowned upon?
like stated (or practically defended) vf's kit has quality parts... and that number on the kit, or any kit for that matter is just a number. turn up the boost if you want more....
i understand for the $ c2 has more to offer in terms of numbers but not in terms of quality/reliability that vf is known for. 
after seeing this thread i doubt vf will bust their A** to do anything for us anymore... not when all you do is whine and complain. 

thanks vf for offering yet another outstanding kit that only a couple of us see the vaule in http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
/rant http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubb24v)*

How can you just up the boost for numbers? Explain? It's non intercooled and no SRI.
Get real dude. Stop nutswinging. VF never gave the 24v guys the stage 3 they promised forever that's why everyone went away.
/rant.


----------



## vdubb24v (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*

my point was you keep on bitching and they wont do anything for us. 
people spent 6k for a charger kit and didnt bitch about numbers, they knew the build quality and reliability. 
also this is stage 1... stage 1 for c2 is also non intercooled.








/owned


----------



## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubb24v)*

That's when there wasn't an alternative. Now there is, so VF cant overcharge for "quality parts". And stage one c2 costs a lot less than this. A comparable price range is a stage 3 kit from c2 for 600$ more that includes a lot more. And the quality of the parts is just as good if not better.


----------



## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubb24v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubb24v* »_i understand for the $ c2 has more to offer in terms of numbers but not in terms of quality/reliability that vf is known for. 

What do you not like about C2's quality?? How are you supposed to know that VF's reliability is better than C2's..? C2's has been on the road for significantly longer.. not to mention the fact that C2 already has clients that have experience with testing the potential of their kit, with much success.

_Quote, originally posted by *vdubb24v* »_
after seeing this thread i doubt vf will bust their A** to do anything for us anymore... not when all you do is whine and complain. 

Why are you so worried about VF's support for the 24v VR6?? Do you not realize that we are more important to them than they are to us...


----------



## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_You guys use a Garrett Turbo instead of a Precision.

This is not directly related to the kit offering here, but I think its safe to say that Garrett is no longer the "creme-of the-creme" in aftermarket turbochargers anymore
Recently, Precision broke off ties with Garrett and started manufacturing their own billet wheel turbos which has produced very strong results...........
And do we even need to mention Borg Warner / Bullseye turbochargers with the extended tip technology?..........
I think Garrett has some catching up to do, quite frankly..........
Okay, carry on..............


----------



## vdubb24v (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
Why are you so worried about VF's support for the 24v VR6?? Do you not realize that we are more important to them than they are to us... 

you have a point, but i think its safe to say we are just a small niche in a very large market ie 2.0t...


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubb24v)*

I understand that the 24v crowd is a minority, but again... VF is acting as if they are the only one in the arena that has a quality kit for us. I think there are plenty of us who have already proven, through experience, how that's not true at all.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

so has their even been an official 2.8l kit installed yet?? or are they just the R32's?
EDIT)) also.. whats exactly the 'premium' stuff on this kit? looking at the pics the only major differences i see are the use of vband clamps and the hardlined hoses for the WG/turbo... i mean is it really that expensive to switch to something like that? their exhuast manifold is basically exactly like my SPA.. then the 02 bungs that are actually on the manifold.. considering the setupts alot of people have already is something like that really difficult to do?


_Modified by DUB_MANGv2 at 5:18 PM 6-24-2009_


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## bomb10shell (Mar 6, 2008)

There has been an *official* kit installed, I own it. VF created this kit based off the designs of the R32 kit and through a few short months of designing and redesigning, they produced a fully functional product for the few 24v owners who are interested. I still have no complaints about the kit. Everything is amazing and has been since day one...even at 6000' where I live. VF has done some truly outstanding work and I stand by their design. I thought my car put a smile on my face before... and then I got my car back after VF tuned and tweaked. The first time I really got on it, it nearly put me to tears it was so amazing. Just my $0.02, which I should hope counts for something since I've driven this kit now for several weeks.


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

not doubting it's fun to drive, just the "premium" products are hardly premium compared to other kits of comparable prices. Call it one dimensional, but it's the truth. Sorry VF.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

also your 'official' kit that put smiles on your face cant be a legit reason. you went from no turbo to a turbo, that alone will put a smile on anyones face lol. i wish jeff would chime in about how many actual 2.8kits have been sold.
also your 'word' on VF quality still isnt anything worth mentioning because WE ALL agree they have awesome builds. our arguement is the power= $$ ratio.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_not doubting it's fun to drive, just the "premium" products are hardly premium compared to other kits of comparable prices. Call it one dimensional, but it's the truth. Sorry VF. 

The only thing that's premium about VF's parts is the premium that you have to pay for their name. IMHO 
I'm not a born to be hater of VF products, but I don't know what else VF expects from the VW community when there are other reputable sources for turbo kits, that already have a reputation built up with the 24v VR6 owners specifically, for significantly less money AND more power.


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
The only thing that's premium about VF's parts is the premium that you have to pay for their name. IMHO 
I'm not a born to be hater of VF products, but I don't know what else VF expects from the VW community when there are other reputable sources for turbo kits, that already have a reputation built up with the 24v VR6 owners specifically, for significantly less money AND more power. 

well look at the positive benefits of the kits.
Hard lines V.S braided
Hardlines have better thermal characteristics as they do not hold heat as much as a braided setup will, they also can work in tighter clearances and hold more pressure with less chances of a leak.
Collector V.S Log style manifold.
Log style will allow for a faster spool because it is not limited by the factory design that was not meant to handle the temperatures or the increased flow that a turbo will provide. The Log manifold also allows for better direction of exhaust flow, and can support more weight and also will give you a better location for the WG and turbo regarding the plumbing.
Ball bearing Vs. Journal bearing.
Ball bearing has faster spool, usually a much better powerband due to this fact, and they tend (depending on size) to have better peak numbers due to less drag on the compressor wheels. They are more efficient and more responsive than journal bearings. While I agree that garret is lagging compared to bullseye, I still would take a GT3582 R over a precession journal bearing turbo anyday. As for the power arggument... CFM's are the real measure of a turbo, 11 PSI on a Gt35 is different than 11 psi on a T67 or a T04E.
Larger WG tells me that they have plans down the road, the bigger WG is designed to deal with more boost safely... so I am assuming the piddly boost stage 1 is pumping out is supposed to be increased in the future.
I can pick out at least several other key features of this kit that make it appealing. Trash all you want but $6,800 for all that is not that bad of a deal Considering the kit is designed to be safe all over (heat shields on the CV joints, hardlines and more heat shields). Dropping the CR is a safety measure that at a low PSI will mean that a intercooler is not necessary, you are less likely to experience detonation with the lower compression ratio.
There are other things too, that add up to make big difference later on, the parts just set the stage for further upgrades. 
This is stage 1... stage 2 will probably include a SRI, and other measures to up the ante. I am guessing based on the specific parts that they are using that the kit is being designed for a stage 3 in the 500 whp range. Why else use heat shielding and hard lines everywhere plus upgrading chain guides and etc?
In reality yes this is a bit more expensive than the comparable C2 kit... but it also does have more expensive hard parts and is designed to work with the stock exhaust system and cat.
To each their own, some products are designed for different buyers. I think that if you were going to build a high HP monster this would be a good place to start. Buy a SRI, FMIC and get rods and pistons and you would be seeing a really awesome build.

thats my $.02


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

i can see why hardlines are better....
i dont have personal experience between ball/journal, i just nkow by precision 6162 is a journal bearing.
a larger WG means = more $$, becaus if by your theory the boost files will increase in the future that means more $$ being thrown on an already expensive kit.
safe yes.... but look at c2/kinetic/ eip/ etc etc... how many of those kits have completely failed?
maybe Vf's gear is high quality and sets a good point for big numbers, but if their charging this much for a kit how much more is a SRI gonna add? what about a fmic kit? before you know it your gonna be hitting 10k and barely at what 4-500hp??
just because the kit works with the stock setup doesnt that mean its being heavily restricted? then your not getting your money's worth.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_
Hard lines V.S braided
Hardlines have better thermal characteristics as they do not hold heat as much as a braided setup will, they also can work in tighter clearances and hold more pressure with less chances of a leak.

OK.... hard lines are really nice. Are they required to make a decent amount of power? No. Do other companies regret not using them? No. 

_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_Collector V.S Log style manifold.
Log style will allow for a faster spool because it is not limited by the factory design that was not meant to handle the temperatures or the increased flow that a turbo will provide. The Log manifold also allows for better direction of exhaust flow, and can support more weight and also will give you a better location for the WG and turbo regarding the plumbing.


There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock exhaust maninfolds.... Yes they were not designed to work with a turbo, but I have a hard time understanding why they are as insufficient as you are trying to make it sound. 

_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_Ball bearing Vs. Journal bearing.
Ball bearing has faster spool, usually a much better powerband due to this fact, and they tend (depending on size) to have better peak numbers due to less drag on the compressor wheels. They are more efficient and more responsive than journal bearings. While I agree that garret is lagging compared to bullseye, I still would take a GT3582 R over a precession journal bearing turbo anyday. As for the power arggument... CFM's are the real measure of a turbo, 11 PSI on a Gt35 is different than 11 psi on a T67 or a T04E.

Ball bearing is obviously better than a journal bearing.. C2 offers both.

_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_Larger WG tells me that they have plans down the road, the bigger WG is designed to deal with more boost safely... so I am assuming the piddly boost stage 1 is pumping out is supposed to be increased in the future.

The larger wastegate is not necessary.. That is not an argument considering that there has already been countless people who have proven that a 38mm WG is fine for 500+whp.

_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_Trash all you want but $6,800 for all that is not that bad of a deal Considering the kit is designed to be safe all over (heat shields on the CV joints, hardlines and more heat shields).

$6800 for a 100 whp increase = $68/hp
Roughly $6800 C2 stg 2+ w/ 3" exhaust for a 220 whp increase = $31/hp
I'm no math major... that's a no brainer.


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_MANGv2* »_i can see why hardlines are better....
i dont have personal experience between ball/journal, i just nkow by precision 6162 is a journal bearing.
a larger WG means = more $$, becaus if by your theory the boost files will increase in the future that means more $$ being thrown on an already expensive kit.
safe yes.... but look at c2/kinetic/ eip/ etc etc... how many of those kits have completely failed?
maybe Vf's gear is high quality and sets a good point for big numbers, but if their charging this much for a kit how much more is a SRI gonna add? what about a fmic kit? before you know it your gonna be hitting 10k and barely at what 4-500hp??
just because the kit works with the stock setup doesnt that mean its being heavily restricted? then your not getting your money's worth.


as far as I know no one has posted up as having a kinetic kit, I also remember a few people having issues with the EIP kit....
your right about the stock exhaust system restriction... but my point was that with other kits its an added expense because you have to buy an exhaust system with it. (the other expenses) I also agree that the OEM headstuds suck, if only because when you remove the stretch bolts they are supposed to be replaced.

as for the rest...
Even if stage 2 is $2K adding an intercooler, a remap flash and a SRI it will then have all the capability of the C2 kit with potential for greater numbers because 
1) it will already have a lower CR
2) it will have replaced the OEM Variable intake manifold
3) the turbo will be bigger than a T04E, and will last longer where its got a much better cooling/spooling system.
where are the restrictions now? why can't you turn up the boost at this point and see higher numbers?
now you have a kit that should be capable of 500HP for $8,800 (ish). does anyone have stage 3 #'s for the C2 kit which is $7,500... keep in mind that its still using a journal bearing turbo that retails for like $600.
also what are you talking about with the Larger wg stuff you wrote? I don't know what your talking about? A larger waste gate is more consistent with a large turbo ... such as a GT35. It is also more expensive than a 38 mm WG. That's all I meant.
finally I think its fair to point out that the guys on here running the big #'s with home built kits have setups fairly close to this. They are running Ball bearing turbos (several with GT35), log style manifolds and have reduced compression and are running a lot of modified hardware that is similar to this kit. Ask them how much they have spent on theirs... see where I am going with this?


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the stock exhaust maninfolds.... Yes they were not designed to work with a turbo, but I have a hard time understanding why they are as insufficient as you are trying to make it sound. 

Ball bearing is obviously better than a journal bearing.. C2 offers both.

The larger wastegate is not necessary.. That is not an argument considering that there has already been countless people who have proven that a 38mm WG is fine for 500+whp.
.

your math is fine your reasoning is a bit off.
I thought we were talking about what the kit is worth. I am arguing in the long run this kit has more potential $ per $. You want to argue about every little detail of what will barely do to get you boosted... thats not what this product is for.
You get what you pay for, and imo this product has better features $ per $ than some of the others.
as for your comments regarding the manifolds, the more bends before a turbo, the lesser the efficiency and the lesser the performance. The C2 ram is a giant loop, that curves also you then waste the thermal energy that is being generated.. which will impact the potential performance. I AM NOT SAYING THAT C2 SUX, they have a good product that works. I am only saying that this design, whether you want to admit it or not, is better.
I did not say the larger waste gate was necessary, a 38 mm will work fine, but a larger wg tends to handle Big turbo's better at lower boost than a smaller wg will. I only pointed out that the GT35 is a big turbo, and thus the 44 mm is well matched at this point and that it is more expensive than a 38mm.
I am pretty sure all the prices quoted on C2's behalf were featuring the basic journal bearing turbo.
again I am not knocking either product, they are both good, I am only saying that people are being a bit unjust in their bench racing.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_
does anyone have stage 3 #'s for the C2 kit which is $7,500... keep in mind that its still using a journal bearing turbo that retails for like $600.

Wrong.


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## NastyBrown (Aug 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*

I still say that a price tag that hi cannot be justified.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_as for your comments regarding the manifolds, the more bends before a turbo, the lesser the efficiency and the lesser the performance. The C2 ram is a giant loop, that curves also you then waste the thermal energy that is being generated.. which will impact the potential performance. I AM NOT SAYING THAT C2 SUX, they have a good product that works. I am only saying that this design, whether you want to admit it or not, is better.

This manifold must suck then from what you're saying..


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (silverstoned83)*

K04E is a ball bearing?


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_
your right about the stock exhaust system restriction... but my point was that with other kits its an added expense because you have to buy an exhaust system with it. (the other expenses)

That's not really an argument since it's of no additional expense. What IS an additional expense would be the LOSS of around 100 whp with NO SAVINGS to you!


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_K04E is a ball bearing?

You referenced the stage 3 kit.
https://www.c2motorsports.net/....aspx


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (silverstoned83)*

you seem to have a hard time understanding basic English...
where did I say it sucked? I said one design was superior to another... nothing more, nothing less. I said the C2 one works fine, as I also said the products appeal to different people for different reasons.
as for your pic, usually when a manifold is built like that its for space reasons, so you can install a big turbo in an engine bay with limited space. 
If the ram horn design is of equal performance why is it that the guys on here with 500+ whp are running log style manifolds when they could buy a cheaper EIP or C2 one?. why spend over 500 for a pag one when you could buy/build a cheaper one that will do the same thing? I also said that by the look of the VF one it could support more weight and give better turbo location and plumbing for the WG, notice how its closer to the turbo than the one you have pic? and its also closer than the ram horn version?
you can contradict me all you want, I just listed some reasons why i think the kit is decent I said it is a premium product with a lot of extras.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

I applaud your attempt to produce an argument that is worthy enough to explain the price, but it's just not good enough. Sorry


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (silverstoned83)*

my bad, I forgot you got a different turbo with the stage 3.
_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_
You referenced the stage 3 kit.
https://www.c2motorsports.net/....aspx 

and you seem to seriously take my posts out of context (you seem to be going out of your way to actually)


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*

I have nothing against you bro.. but I do have something against almost everything that you are saying.


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_I applaud your attempt to produce an argument that is worthy enough to explain the price, but it's just not good enough. Sorry

funny thats what everyone said when the Kinetics/cts kit came out...
guess there is no room in the market for another vendor unless they are cheaper than C2.
again don't get me wrong, c2 is wicked and has supported the community a ton... doesn't mean you have to piss on every other product that comes in here and asks for a nickle more than the C2 kit.
You can justify anything according to your arguments you base everything on $ per hp, not taking into consideration form, funtion or anything else.
you want somthing you can't argue with? 
$ per hp nitrous is the way to go... even for a 2K you could build a killer kit with a launch box and have over 500 hp. So why are we all still looking at turbos?







in fact you could have saved a fortune on all those parts you have in your sig if you had have bought a used dry kit off ebay for 300$.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*

Mr. Thrilla - There is nothing wrong with the Y-pipe + OEM exhaust manifold combo, I'm already beyond @ 550whp using it and about to try to hit 600whp with it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Although I have a ball-bearing turbo with my C2 kit, if I had to do it over again, I would just get a journal bearing turbo, there is nothing wrong with journal bearing turbos.......
It makes installation alot easier and mitigates the risk if there should be coolant leaks in the entire system, aside from that the 200-300rpm spool up difference, if even true, is negligible...........
Many people run GT35Rs without feeding it coolant b/c of the simplicity of the setup.............
Just giving you some real world perspective.............


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (silverstoned83)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverstoned83* »_I have nothing against you bro.. but I do have something against almost everything that you are saying.

no hard feelings, I just have a different opinion. its a free country, your welcome to disagree with me.


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Tom Long)*

is that afi manifold a oneoff?


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_guess there is no room in the market for another vendor unless they are cheaper than C2.
again don't get me wrong, c2 is wicked and has supported the community a ton... doesn't mean you have to piss on every other product that comes in here and asks for a nickle more than the C2 kit.
You can justify anything according to your arguments you base everything on $ per hp, not taking into consideration form, funtion or anything else.

A nickel, huh..? I wish money grew on trees for me too.


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *One Gray GLI* »_is that afi manifold a oneoff?









Yeah, according to this thread.. no one likes it.








http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4430640


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Tom Long)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Tom Long* »_Mr. Thrilla - There is nothing wrong with the Y-pipe + OEM exhaust manifold combo, I'm already beyond @ 550whp using it and about to try to hit 600whp with it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Although I have a ball-bearing turbo with my C2 kit, if I had to do it over again, I would just get a journal bearing turbo, there is nothing wrong with journal bearing turbos.......
It makes installation alot easier and mitigates the risk if there should be coolant leaks in the entire system, aside from that the 200-300rpm spool up difference, if even true, is negligible...........
Many people run GT35Rs without feeding it coolant b/c of the simplicity of the setup.............
Just giving you some real world perspective............. 


cool, those are great numbers. I know the C2 kits are good, and they quoted their stage 3 kits as being in the 500hp range.
look guys I am sorry if you think I am being a douche, I just don't understand how you can all nit pick the **** out of my posts which are fairly technically sound... all I said was the kit had a lot of **** that would justify a higher price than the comparable C2 kit and it mostly came down to the cost of hardware and the extras. That is it.
If you re-read my post, I didn't say anything about the C2 kit not being good, or not putting up good numbers. So I don't know why this is getting so much play. I stated that a log style is better functionally, that is all. 
Journal bearing turbos are great for most people, I agree 100%. I didn't say they sucked, but I did say that ball bearings are technically better and they will also last longer, if you choose to run the coolant lines. (I only mentioned it, because the kit cost's more and mentioned the garret GT as part of the reason)
I appreciate the real world perspective, I have had several turbo vehicles before, but no I have not turbo'd my GTI yet.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_

guess there is no room in the market for another vendor unless they are cheaper than C2.

You can justify anything according to your arguments you base everything on $ per hp, not taking into consideration form, funtion or anything else.
you want somthing you can't argue with? 
$ per hp nitrous is the way to go... 

dude if its funtion > form then HELLO all the other kits are better. because for a grand or so cheaper, ALL the other kits produce more and up until now have continually proven to be solid.
unfortunetly VF didnt set the standard for FI this time around like they did with SCs. if they want to have a chance they should at least somewhat justify the price according to the market.
STAY ON TOPIC... i dont want darth rictus in here.
also... heres a bit of food for thought, do the previous SC owners get any incentive for sticking with VF and going the turbo route? cuz that might be a deal breaker to some who want to stay on the same ship.

btw c_t do u have a turbo kit by chance? i can recall who here does but im curious as to if u you?


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_all I said was the kit had a lot of **** that would justify a higher price than the comparable C2 kit and it mostly came down to the cost of hardware and the extras. That is it.
If you re-read my post, I didn't say anything about the C2 kit not being good, or not putting up good numbers. So I don't know why this is getting so much play. I stated that a log style is better functionally, that is all.

The reason you're being scrutinized is because you're defending the price as if there is good reason for it. Don't take it personally, but I have decided to defend the fact that it's not worth it... Hopefully VF will come to their senses and step off their high horse after considering the opinions they're receiving from potential buyers in this thread (which I doubt they will do). We all have seen what this kit consists of. You reconfirming the list of "goodies" is not gonna change our opinion of the price.


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## 24ValveGLI (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_MANGv2* »_precision 6162 is a journal bearing.



Negative. I have that turbo from C2 and its a BB turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by 24ValveGLI at 6:25 PM 6-30-2009_


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (24ValveGLI)*

they come in either.


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## 24ValveGLI (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*

Stage 3 has the BB option built in with the price The PT6162 ((BB) Never seen that turbo optioned as a JB). There lower stages use the journal bearing turbo. (TO4E) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by 24ValveGLI at 6:28 PM 6-30-2009_


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## One Gray GLI (Apr 2, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (24ValveGLI)*

I meant from precision.







lol


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## 24ValveGLI (Mar 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (One Gray GLI)*

Ah lol Ive never seen the PT6162 have the journal option.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

the sad part is jeff already chimned in and said he disregaurds this thread (but im sure he still reads it)
they really need to pay attention to the non turbo owners who are consideirng since thats their market, everyone else here already has a turbo. when i finally made the decision to boost way back last year when they mentioned the R&D for the r32kits i was told i would be put on the list for test cars, and that i would in return get a discounted kit... well i called... pm'd... continued to talk to said person. finally was directed to jeff, so i called him. he flat out said i had to pay them retail for the kit if i wanted to be a test car. now call me dumb... but considering their new to the turbo scene that doesnt seem exactly like good ju ju


_Modified by DUB_MANGv2 at 4:48 PM 6-30-2009_


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## WusteHase (Jun 16, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_MANGv2* »_the sad part is jeff already chimned in and said he disregaurds this thread (but im sure he still reads it)
they really need to pay attention to the non turbo owners who are consideirng since thats their market, everyone else here already has a turbo. when i finally made the decision to boost way back last year when they mentioned the R&D for the r32kits i was told i would be put on the list for test cars, and that i would in return get a discounted kit... well i called... pm'd... continued to talk to said person. finally was directed to jeff, so i called him. he flat out said i had to pay them retail for the kit if i wanted to be a test car. now call me dumb... but considering their new to the turbo scene that doesnt seem exactly like good ju ju



Then you got a bum gouge. My wife and I both went with VF turbo kits, and her car was the beta for the 2.8l. I can't really go into what we paid, but it was worth our while. We looked for quite some time before finally deciding on VF. We understood the risks of going with a brand new kit that would probably have some kinks and bad publicity, but to date, we're both extremely happy with the choice we made. Also, why you would be directed to Jeff for pricing is beyond me. In all my dealings with them, Sean is the sales and pricing go-to guy, Jeff is R&D and building/testing.
Question for all of you who're bashing the crap out of VF and putting C2 up on a pedestal: Where were you when HPA was putting out ridiculously priced kits? It's just plain rude to come into somebody else's thread and start swingin. You've said your piece, why are you still in here? We can all see your not happy with VFs product, so why don't you go post somewhere else where you won't sound like a ******** for just disagreeing with anything good that's being pointed out. It really reminds me of being a kid and arguing with my little brother just for the sake of arguing. Very childish.
C_T: Good points you've made, and while silverstoned might not understand plain English, I do and your points are all valid.
As for stage 2 from VF, that will be on my car within a few weeks. Again, I can't say what I'll be paying for it but it's certainly worth every cent in my opinion. (SRI, Chargecooler, cams, cam file, 100oct file)
Someone asked about the SC guys. If I'm not mistaken, VF is offering a swap incentive of some sort if they want to move up to a Turbo.


_Modified by WusteHase at 9:01 AM 7-1-2009_


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## Mr. Rictus (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (WusteHase)*

This is not a C2 vs. VF thread.
The discussion was informative until now. Keep it on topic.


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Mr. Rictus)*

Can we please stop criticizing the price of the kit? so we can get some more info and updates on a stage 2 kit.
If you think it's too expensive simply don't buy it.
Im sure this kit is build to be a turn key car, with no CEL and any issues, something like it would come from the factory, I know my S/C kit is that way...even tho I had some issues with the blower, which are minor oil issues, but it doesn't affect the car in any way, no CEL or any codes.
As for the power this kit makes, after all it was dynoed with restricted exhaust and 910ct., Im sure with the head spacer (that already comes with it) you can turn the boost to at least 15psi and with a better exhaust you should see at least 350whp maybe more.
Their stage 2 S/C kit was advertised to produce 271whp, and I did anywhere between 258whp to 302whp with it. and I have a dyno graph to prove 302whp.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*

you didnt pull 300 consistantly though.
but yes! VF DOES HAVE THE CLEANEST INSTALLS. 
hmm well i suppose going from sub 200 to par 350+ id pay for the "safest way possible" ... from the cops lol


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## rajvosa71000 (Jun 9, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

The thing I like the most about VF is that they make threads like this for us to see their product, with the dyno numbers and install.
Why can't C2 do that, I'd really would like to see their build on a stage 3 kit, with dyno numbers that you'll get out of the box.
If I go turbo Im really gonna have hard time deciding which kit to buy...we all know that both company is one of the best out there.


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## vr6jettagli (Mar 30, 2008)

for the price i believe vf has it set up like that because of R/D and parts i love my vf s/c kit and in the near future i really wanna buy there turbo kit awesome customer service, and solid kits!


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

IMHO, the reason for the price has a lot to do with the fact that they're simply not going to make the SC line disappear now that they have a turbo route... They know, just like the customers do, that turbos offer greater potential.. With that said, why would they release a turbo kit for just marginally more expensive than their entry level SC kit? That would make them begin to lose business in one area to help in another.. which would effectively cancel out all their hard work. Instead, they have chosen to price the turbo option just enough above the cost of their SC option so that it is in it's own league of performance upgrades, as it should be. Only time will tell whether this fact will effect the kit's survivability.. in the 24v turbo market. just my $.02


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## c0ntract_thrilla (Feb 27, 2008)

*Re: (silverstoned83)*

SC appeals to a completely different segment than a turbo.
I would go SC for a daily easy because its a decent improvement in power, its a faster install, less concerns and its enough power that you can get by without having to upgrade a lot of other parts in the process running your expenses up. IE: clutch, axles, brakes, exhaust and other stuff like that. I realize by no means will a Charger kit ever put down staggering numbers but it is a good improvement over stock.
Turbo appeals to people who want to go fast (and want lots of power) and realize that there will be considerable $$ investment and down time on their car to achieve this. I don't think anyone here believes they could buy a turbo kit plus all the other essentials to do a proper setup, drop it in on a weekend and be rolling around smoking vettes by Monday. Plus with a turbo kit, I think even the stage 1 kits by c2 are pushing the limits of your clutch! 
IMHO I think that VF recognizes that there are different "wants" for different consumers and they are trying to be competitive on all fronts. I myself have a project car, and for me I would take the charger for simplicity on my Daily because I want more power but can't have the car up on blocks for more than a few days tops.Also I want the majority of my funds to go into my project car, so replacing axles, clutches and all the other wear and tear items that will break at 300whp does not appeal to me and my bank book.
Anyway this is again steering OT. who cares why they built the kit and priced it this way, clearly they have already sold some.


_Modified by c0ntract_thrilla at 6:31 AM 7-7-2009_


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## silverstoned83 (Feb 16, 2009)

*Re: (c0ntract_thrilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *c0ntract_thrilla* »_
Anyway this is again steering OT. who cares why they built the kit and priced it this way, clearly they have already sold some.

Talking about anything regarding this kit is staying on topic... Let the moderators make that call please.


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## bomb10shell (Mar 6, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (rajvosa71000)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rajvosa71000* »_Im sure this kit is build to be a turn key car, with no CEL and any issues, something like it would come from the factory, I know my S/C kit is that way...even tho I had some issues with the blower, which are minor oil issues, but it doesn't affect the car in any way, no CEL or any codes.



You'd be right in your assumption. It is a turn key car, no cel's, no issues, and like i've said since day one, this is a kit that is absolutely made for this car, as if it's from the factory stock. I have yet to have a complaint, a cel, an issue, an anything negative about this... well worth the money.


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