# which mod....?



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Guys, i was calculating numbers and i realized something... this summer i can do 1 of this 2 big mods, and i just cant decide which...

recently, i bought a set of Ferrea Stage 3 valves (oversized) and in order to install em i'd need to modify the head. The best option of doing so, would be to do INA's head porting. which would create larger seats for the larger valves.. and as a net result, i would have about 31% better intake flow and 18% exhaust.
Obviously the 31% intake is a LOT of an improvement... and the car would breathe a LOT better...

on the other hand, i could wait on the install of the valves and the port job, and simply buy an intake mani. and have some money left over for whatever might come up, and when i get back on, financially, i'll do the port job.

regardless of the option, both mods are going to happen... i finally decided the LONG struggle of going back and forth on NA vs FI... and well,* turbo wins*... so, i'm going to build the engine PRIOR the turbo.

so, what should i do? valves or intake mani?

_*for reference: 
 ported heads info 

valves 

and you all know about the intake manis.*_


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## xxKurt85xx (Jun 8, 2010)

I'd like to see the valves go in! I mean you're already half way there and I think the power will be about the same maybe even a lil more than the manifold.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

I agree...won't need the mani when you go turbo...gains are mostly for NA cars. Plus there are only like 2 choices for manis out right now. Wait and see what else happens in the next year or however long until you decide to plunge into the turbo setup (that is if you decide to get a mani at all).


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

TrillyPop said:


> I agree...won't need the mani when you go turbo...gains are mostly for NA cars.


 :sly:



xxKurt85xx said:


> I'd like to see the valves go in! I mean you're already half way there


 X2 I say do it now why sit on the parts if you already got them put them in! I want to see what the differance would be from stock to full port/polish and valves etc.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

first i'll do the mani/valves then i'll do 8.5:1 pistons and forged rods.
it is afterwards that i'll do the turbo...

the main thing with the turbo is that there is nothing yet for the 2009s, i know i could swap ECUs to a 2.0T or a 2008 2.5
but i'm going to do the bulletproofing first, in order to give time to the aftermaket to mature a lil bit.

hopefully some time from today (6 months? 1 year?) there will be at least 1 option...


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

Sounds like a good plan to me. :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TrillyPop said:


> I agree...won't need the mani when you go turbo...gains are mostly for NA cars.


both FI and NA find bennefits from the mani..! lol.
since i have at least 6 more months, but probably 1 more year of NA in front of me, both mods, mani AND valves will show a great improvement.

the other thing i was thinking is that to install the ported head, i'd need to remove both manis (intake and exhaust)
so i could buy one, then the other, and install em both at the same time!

or i could get the intake mani, install it, have fun, and then a couple of months later, remove and re install..? 

lol.. HELP ME!!!


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## xxKurt85xx (Jun 8, 2010)

> the other thing i was thinking is that to install the ported head, i'd need to remove both manis (intake and exhaust)
> so i could buy one, then the other, and install em both at the same time!


why do you have to do that?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

cause you have to..! lol

how else can you remove the cylinder head?


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> both FI and NA find bennefits from the mani..! lol.


prove it? Also I want to see flow charts of the intake mani showing improved flow to all 5 cylinders.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

dude, lets not pollute the thread. and if you dont want to trust me, common sense or simple physics, then lets just leave it at that.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

this is a pic of a 2.0T cylinder head. note that boths manis were removed.


no intake manifold









no exhaust manifold


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> dude, lets not pollute the thread. and if you dont want to trust me, common sense or simple physics, then lets just leave it at that.


Agreed on not polluting the thread or going off topic...not trying to do that. This IS on topic.

But exactly what simple physics are you talking about? And why should I trust YOU that a HEP intake mani will give gains in a turbo application?

I'm just saying - they're proven for gains (with a tune) on NA applications. BUT, I have never seen any real data except for these hp gains (aka showing better flow to all 5 cylinders) to validate the statement you are making. Some intake manis actually show improved flow to 4 cylinders but really ****ty flow to the 5th (not talking about our particular 2.5 engine). It depends on very complex physics of flow. Just sayin'...

Also, nobody has proven that they bring gains on a turbo application. And I would hate for you to go off of a possibly false assumption and then regret spending over $1000 for a part that you did not need. Again, just sayin'...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TrillyPop said:


> ... BUT, I have never seen any real data except for these hp gains (aka showing better flow to all 5 cylinders) to validate the statement you are making. ...
> 
> Also, nobody has proven that they bring gains on a turbo application...


i dont know if ANY turbo guy has done it. and if anyone did, i'm fairly sure they haven been tunned for it.
and i think its safe to assume that Some manis, have already proven to have WAY better air flow than the stock plastic.

edit:

actually, my friend DID do a mani on a Turbo, cause he was find sort of a wall in air delivery/ flow.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4713346


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

done and decided.

*INTAKE MANIFOLD.* _with software._


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

With thanks to Unitronic for that?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

huh?


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

thygreyt said:


> huh?


I think he was implying that "should we thank Unitronic on the software?".


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

well nothing is concrete yet... but maybe soon enough!


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## elf911 (Jul 27, 2007)

I go with the intake mani, I remember audi4u saying how well this head flows so I don't think at this point it will be holding you back as this is one of the best flowing heads that VW has made. The intake mani will be alot less work and from what I have read with the software will give you great improvements especially with all the other work you have done :thumbup:

Just my 2c's I wish I could afford either but best of luck! :beer:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

elf911 said:


> I go with the intake mani, I remember audi4u saying how well this head flows so I don't think at this point it will be holding you back as this is one of the best flowing heads that VW has made. The intake mani will be alot less work and from what I have read with the software will give you great improvements especially with all the other work you have done :thumbup:
> 
> Just my 2c's I wish I could afford either but best of luck! :beer:


the head flows really good, and most of us know that... however, it could always be better!
imagine a quick flowing head AND a good flowing intake mani...finish it with a good set of headers and exhaust, and well... who knows? 

So, yes.. intake mani first, then i'll do the ported head. 
and i'l do my best to make a dyno BEFORE the mani, one afterwards and one after the new head..! 
that way we will all be able to see the results.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

How much power are you looking for? Odds are that you don't need to port the head to get there on boost.

Pete


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

for the output i'm looking for, i dont NEED to port the head...

but since i got the ferrea stage 3, i need to "fix" the valve seats in order to install the oversized valves.

and well, instead of doing the job locally with a guy who i dont know, or with i campany i dont trust, i rather do a whole port job that will not only improve flow, but it will also accomodate for the larger valves, with a company i trust, such as INA.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

You can just cut the seats- blend them in if you want- it's not a big deal- 1MM over is .020" per side... Hell, you can do a 2mm over valve in those heads- with off the shelf ferrea stuff- IF you know what you are doing besides just ordering part numbers. :laugh:

The head I have on the dyno right now is a stock port 1.8t with oversize valves for example. A proper race valve job blends them in. :thumbup:

But ya, no matter what you are doing, you do need a quality machine shop. A poor shop will ruin anything / everything.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> You can just cut the seats- blend them in if you want- it's not a big deal- 1MM over is .020" per side... Hell, you can do a 2mm over valve in those heads- with off the shelf ferrea stuff- IF you know what you are doing besides just ordering part numbers. :laugh:
> 
> The head I have on the dyno right now is a stock port 1.8t with oversize valves for example. A proper race valve job blends them in. :thumbup:
> 
> But ya, no matter what you are doing, you do need a quality machine shop. A poor shop will ruin anything / everything.


i'll what i can find out locally...! 
cause i personally, on internals i BARELY know the part numbers!!! lol


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## PlatinumMKV (Sep 12, 2010)

Could have sworn you weren't going turbo http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5230831-sad-day....&highlight=sad+day :screwy:

Are you going to ever do any of this stuff on your car or are you just looking to waste everyone's time on vortex talking about what you probably won't ever do. I know these things take time but I sometimes wonder if you realize how you come off in these threads. I know... I'm an *******.

/rant


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

PlatinumMKV said:


> Could have sworn you weren't going turbo http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5230831-sad-day....&highlight=sad+day :screwy:
> 
> Are you going to ever do any of this stuff on your car or are you just looking to waste everyone's time on vortex talking about what you probably won't ever do. I know these things take time but I sometimes wonder if you realize how you come off in these threads. I know... I'm an *******.
> 
> /rant



Uhhhhh, lol? Have you seen ol' boy's car? It has a LOT done. and by LOT, I mean AWHOLEFREAKINGLOTFORANN/AMOTOR. So he's sketchy on whether he wants to go turbo or not. I'd be with that new intake manifold/tune that came out too. Back when I was looking, it was either go turbo, or accept the fact that your car is dog slow.

You see anyone do a 6MT swap into an automatic MKV yet? Well guess what? This big talker up here is doing it as we speak.

/get on his level then you can talk ****. 



*OH. To cure your upcoming vortex "nutswinger" comment. There's no swinging, just setting you straight from calling BS on a good friend. :thumbup::thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

PlatinumMKV said:


> Could have sworn you weren't going turbo http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5230831-sad-day....&highlight=sad+day :screwy:
> 
> Are you going to ever do any of this stuff on your car or are you just looking to waste everyone's time on vortex talking about what you probably won't ever do. I know these things take time but I sometimes wonder if you realize how you come off in these threads. I know... I'm an *******.
> 
> /rant


lol. dude, let me sort of explain...

when i made that thread I didnt want to go turbo, nor i wanted a tranny swap. i just called it a day...

it was later on that Ted (teamZleep) and eurojet and my local shop convinced me to do a tranny swap... and still i said, no turbo was gonna happen.

and if you go throu my personal thread (~45 pages) and you read EVERY post, you'll see that i have ALWAYS struggled on wether or not to go turbo... and i have said many many times that i will... just as many times that i have said that i wont.

anyways, i finally decided... why do a tranny swap to stay NA? it would be a waste of such a mod.
and then, i though REALLY hard on going turbo... and well, why not? then i though about prices, and well, with a turbo you can make MORE power, easier power and cheaper power than NA with less modifications. and if i want more power, its just a matter of putting more boost.

all in all i have done a LOT to this car and engine. including the tranny swap, i have spend more on mods that what i have spent on the car itself.
i also have a ferrea stage 3 set thats just waiting and begging to be installed.
i already have an "agreement" to do the ported head, already have the second head... just waiting to be ported...
the forged rods are already "located", just a matter of sending a couple of bucks.
all i'm missing internally are the pistons, but i'm waiting a bit longer, but they are comming. 8.5:1

and well, the turbo set is a whole other matter. i already what components and where to buy em, my issue at the moment (besides money) is SW tuning.

and for your info, this summer, hopefully before sowo, i'll have this mods done:

-sound system install (speakers+amp)
-custom quad cat back.
-painted body kit.
-6spd tranny swap (starts next thursday)
-intake manifold.

and this is the car, and all the mods,


thygreyt said:


> mods for thy greyt .:R25
> _ *PERFORMANCE*_
> 
> 
> ...


for the mods with a link, just click em to see em. i havent gotten around to take a pic of each.


thanks for sharing your opinion. and i guess i'm a big talker then... lol. 

thanks again for the encouragement, and all of what you did Zleep.  you know that if i can help you with anything, its just a phonecall away!  (no ****). after all, you're the one who got me started on the tranny swap


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## PlatinumMKV (Sep 12, 2010)

Hey I'm probably just jealous, hell I am jealous. I knew all about what you've done to your car, been following your build for a while, I just can't help myself sometimes.  As far as being on the same level, that is exactly what I'm talking about Teamzleep, apparently you need MONEY to be on the same level as another enthusiast on this site, which is probably why my snide comment was thrown in there in the first place. Your car is badass, it has the potential to be one of the baddest 2.5l out there, I just had to chime in on how you come off. If we ever meet I'll buy you a beer and we can hopefully laugh about all this and how I'm an ******* for calling you out. And I'm not being sarcastic this time


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

You either need money (Not really to be honest, a LOT can be done if you have a little bit of fab skills), or the ability to hustle/get down and dirty with the car. I'm no baller by any means, and I think my car has come a long way in just the past year.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

you dont need much money...

i for example, do all the installs myself, and i charge a lil to help others on my area...and with the money i buy more parts...

last summer i had 3 jobs, and 1 was sort of as a mechanic... lol. also, i have been able to make great friedns with good people that have helped me enormously with discounts and whatnot.

and i try to get my hands dirty as often as i can... for example, this summer i'm going to work with my friends body shop to paint my body kit... and to cut the bumper for the quad exhaust... so pretty much i'll be learning with pros and i'll be using pro stuff to paint my body kit and they will supervise everything i do.  means: cheap+ excellent work+ experience+diy+sastifaction.


same with the tranny swap, the installer agreed to let me help! so there too i'll get experience... and lots of pics


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Hug it out 

I'm excited to see how your tranny swap goes. In a couple months I'll be faced with that decision - upgrade the auto tranny or buy+upgrade a 6 speed and swap it in. 

I am, however, still skeptical on the intake mani for a forced induction 2.5L...haha


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

TrillyPop said:


> I am, however, still skeptical on the intake mani for a forced induction 2.5L...haha


The stock one? 16k on the turbo setup and all is well.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

TeamZleep said:


> The stock one? 16k on the turbo setup and all is well.


No, the new ones people are fabbing. I'm sticking with the stock one as well :thumbup:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Golf 2.0T said:


>





Golf 2.0T said:


> first time out to the strip , street racing night so no tree just a green light .went 111.8mph and 13.40 .would not consider the ET cause you lose almost a full second in reaction time . hard to guess the light since its activated by a track official ..never the same .
> 
> anyway im glad to see it run almost 112mph on 12psi knowing its a heavy car probably 3000ish lbs . will crank up the boost later this spring would be thrilled to see 124 mph and low 11s
> 
> i raced against a 2010 BMW 335i I6 3.0L twin turbo , he had a turboback and chipped (really nice car by the way) and i killed him from launch till finish line he never came close . he told me that i should not have been able to pass him that there was something wrong with his boost that he had only 15psi blah blah ... told him mine had 12psi and one less cylinder


check that thread... lol...

need i say more?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TrillyPop said:


> prove it? Also I want to see flow charts of the intake mani showing improved flow to all 5 cylinders.





TrillyPop said:


> I agree...won't need the mani when you go turbo...gains are mostly for NA cars. Plus there are only like 2 choices for manis out right now. Wait and see what else happens in the next year or however long until you decide to plunge into the turbo setup (that is if you decide to get a mani at all).





TrillyPop said:


> Agreed on not polluting the thread or going off topic...not trying to do that. This IS on topic.
> 
> But exactly what simple physics are you talking about? And why should I trust YOU that a HEP intake mani will give gains in a turbo application?
> 
> ...



To clear up a few things, comes this from the same thread: "in my experience with plenums the larger the better" ..for turbo car anyways ..never did anything for n/a application nor for supercharged application either but should be similar to turbo .. i sujest you use at least 150%

So what hes saying is on a fi application the larger the plenum the greater the power. Sure you may lose a little throttle response,but a larger tb will take care of the problem in most cases. So for the increases in power you get from running the hep n/a further shows that the power limiting factor is the oe intake manifold.... Sure the hep wont give you the gains turbo'd that lets say a 5-
6 liter plenum will, but you will still see cost worthy gains over stock, I gaurantee that :thumbup:
By far the best 1200 bucks you can spend turbo'd or not for top end power(besides ghost cams)imo :beer:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

exactly. i read that too some time ago.

he also says, somewhere along the same post that normal plennums are anywhere from 40% of the motor's displacement. to whatever, 150%?

and by basic mathematics the plenum in the eurojet, 1552 or HEP are all to the very least, larger than 1 liter.

and thats simple to show, since 1 litter= 3 cans of 8oz soda. roughly.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

thygreyt said:


> exactly. i read that too some time ago.
> 
> he also says, somewhere along the same post that normal plennums are anywhere from 40% of the motor's displacement. to whatever, 150%?
> 
> ...


Yes I too read that longs ago. But ya anyways he states you want it to be anywhere from 
40%(~OE spec)-150%(race/bt) of the motors displacement.

The aftermarket manifolds are indeed lager than 1liter, HEP being the largest, Id guess ~3-4liters.
Again YOU will see gains with any of the aftermarket manifolds. Brabbit should do a dyno with the oe manifold and another with the ej. It will show improvement :thumbup:

If anyone is scared that they will lose power or wash running this on a turbo set-up, do it! at most you may get some sluggish throttle response, but then get a bigger throttle body, but thats non-sense anyways as the hep is not big enough, nor is anybody doubting the manifold pushing enough power/boost to need a bigger 6 liter plenum :thumbup:


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> By far the best 1200 bucks you can spend turbo'd or not for top end power(besides ghost cams)imo :beer:



I'm really not trying to say that a new intake manifold will not bring gains on a turbo application. I am confident that they probably would bring some gains. I'm just trying to say that: 
1) gains versus a stock mani on a 2.5T have not been proven, 
2) air flow is a very complex entity. The difference in flow velocity between a N/A and turbo application will be much different, affecting the flow within an intake manifold. This may or may not result in better flow to some or all cylinders. Sure you can increase overall airflow but not be maximizing it for all cylinders because there is a dead spot in the mani. That seems stupid to me.
3) AT $1200, that is certainly NOT the best money you can spend on an already turbo'd car. For $1200 bucks you could get a new turbo, new exhaust + bigger injectors and tweak the tune. And you certainly can't say that it is the best value for a 2.5L Turbo, because NO gains have ever been proven. I agree that the OP should do a dyno with stock mani and EJ mani to prove me wrong. That would make me very happy  seriously it would, then I would go buy a new mani 

All good discussion...just trying to look at real life data and not jump to conclusions here...


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> ill start. i plan on going all out with the dm motorsports rabbit as my point of reference. by waterfest next year i will have a bored out 2.5 with built motor, gt30r or gt35r, we'll see? also been thinking seriously about the awd haldex swap :laugh: but i will for sure get a full cage put in, water meth, the whole 9 yards :laugh:
> 
> but for now i will only be doing a basic turbo build with:
> spa turbo manifold
> ...


Also, no offense dude, but you do A LOT of talking, and I have never seen any real action from you or your car. Where is your turbo rabbit?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TrillyPop said:


> Also, no offense dude, but you do A LOT of talking, and I have never seen any real action from you or your car. Where is your turbo rabbit?


Gone.. Sold it awhile back along with all that stuff, well minus the ej valve cover, I will never sell that thing :heart:, Installed the whole kit on the car. As far as I know the 40yr old teacher who bought it is boosting hard making decent power, down in pensacola fl. I have since replaced it with another rabbit and also a spare 08 jetta that was a totaled salvage car, still putting that back together. As soon as the jetta is done, im selling or trading the rabbit for a tornado red mkv R32 if one shows up local, and aerocharge it :laugh:


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

have any pics/details on your turbo setup? did you run an aftermarket intake mani?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TrillyPop said:


> have any pics/details on your turbo setup? did you run an aftermarket intake mani?


Nope because its not my car anymore. We used a to4e garrett, that I had layin around, he's maybe making 260hp in it, 10-11# boost. Also as far as I know he got the c2 turbo software.. And nope no intake manifold on that, I know they make improvement over stock :thumbup: Prove me wrong...


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

pics or it didnt happen


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TrillyPop said:


> pics or it didnt happen


Its not my car anymore, hes not on any forums since vortex changed. Its up to him he may be at H20 as a booth car. I dont care personally what you want to see or what anyone thinks, the only reason im on here is because im bored as sh**, waiting for something good come out for the motor to make me keep these cars.

What about you?? You seem to troll around here and negate everything that somebody wants to buy or whatever. Apparantly everything is pointless and a waste of money with you.... You talk about ecu swap so you can turbo a automatic? Lets see some of those pics or details.... Or is that all talk? Just seems like senseless trouble to turbo an automatic that'll slip like crazy... Gryt is(hate to say it!lol) a step above us all.. I mean who else would bother going from auto-manual in a brand new car, and buy pricey valve train and might install em, I know who... That baller!lol :thumbupy


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TrillyPop said:


> I'm really not trying to say that a new intake manifold will not bring gains on a turbo application. I am confident that they probably would bring some gains. I'm just trying to say that:
> 1) gains versus a stock mani on a 2.5T have not been proven,
> 2) air flow is a very complex entity. The difference in flow velocity between a N/A and turbo application will be much different, affecting the flow within an intake manifold. This may or may not result in better flow to some or all cylinders. Sure you can increase overall airflow but not be maximizing it for all cylinders because there is a dead spot in the mani. That seems stupid to me.
> 3) AT $1200, that is certainly NOT the best money you can spend on an already turbo'd car. For $1200 bucks you could get a new turbo, new exhaust + bigger injectors and tweak the tune. And you certainly can't say that it is the best value for a 2.5L Turbo, because NO gains have ever been proven. I agree that the OP should do a dyno with stock mani and EJ mani to prove me wrong. That would make me very happy  seriously it would, then I would go buy a new mani
> ...


And his tune starts to change It should actually show more gains in a boosted application as air is being forced into the manifold, not drawn in from a intake. As the HEP is larger in volume than the oem again allowing more air to be forced in making more power. Sure you can argue semantics of price, but for someone who has a turbo build but running oem manifold should see similar gains if not more using a larger im. There is nothing wrong with running the oem manifold, but if you want more power from your existing setup a larger manifold is the way to go, Its what dsm guys, import drag racer do.


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

My car is getting a stage 3 kit installed as we speak (head spacer, 550cc injectors, C2 fuel kit). I put pics of my turbo/exhaust manifold in the 2.5T thread a while ago go check it out. 

I might be wrong. You just come off like a troll to me. But what does it really matter anyways...this is just a car forum afterall.


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TrillyPop said:


> My car is getting a stage 3 kit installed as we speak (head spacer, 550cc injectors, C2 fuel kit). I put pics of my turbo/exhaust manifold in the 2.5T thread a while ago go check it out.
> 
> I might be wrong. You just come off like a troll to me. But what does it really matter anyways...this is just a car forum afterall.


Truer words never spoken. I stayed away from vortex for so long. The only reason I joined was because I needed bbs 3piece wheel pieces. No offense but I never go into the c2 motorsport thread :beer: What are you doing for the trans? Also look im not arguing with you anymore. You are one of those typical "bought not built guys" that thinks nothing is good unless you see some sort of advertising for it, or you are told by a company that you need it. Which is fine, nothing wrong with that, I understand everyone doesn't have the resources to do everything, but dont swear something is useless for a turbo because it didnt come in your "top model kit" or whatever reason your trying to defend.*I gaurantee if c2 made a intake manifold for this motor there would be a stage 4 kit including it and new software* and youd be all over tht


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## TrillyPop (Jan 27, 2010)

Your last sentence is probably true, but I would only be about it if there was solid proof of gains that were worth the money. That's what this whole argument started around haha.

Yes I am paying to have my motor built and ECU swap done. I just do not have the knowledge base much less the time to do it myself. I could probably manage most of the hardware install with the tools I have, but I am studying for my medical licensure exams and have 0 free time for the next couple months.

I have, however, done all of my cosmetic mods myself (coils/stance tuning, lips, retrofitted projectors, lips, etc. etc. because that's what I'm comfortable with).

As far as the trans, my plan is to keep it stock and see how it goes. There are plenty of guys with stage 2 and one with stage 3 C2 kits that have had no slippage issues. One guy with a stage 2 had some serious problems. If and when that happens, I'll have to decide between swapping in a bulletproofed 6 speed, or upgrading the current trans with the Level10 torque converter.

And here's to not being cyber bullies :beer: I hate sounding like a little kid on these forums...I guess spending all day memorizing virology put me in a bad mood


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

TrillyPop said:


> Your last sentence is probably true, but I would only be about it if there was solid proof of gains that were worth the money. That's what this whole argument started around haha.
> 
> Yes I am paying to have my motor built and ECU swap done. I just do not have the knowledge base much less the time to do it myself. I could probably manage most of the hardware install with the tools I have, but I am studying for my medical licensure exams and have 0 free time for the next couple months.
> 
> ...


May not be 1300$ worth of gains, but thats what it costs, and is the only option unless you fab your own. But it is what is is. Gotta pay to play! Thats the only thing I have not installed yet. You will see greater performance over stock I gaurantee that:thumbup: My cars have always been private. Locals see it, but I do not go to shows, and things. This year will be the first time I go to any events on terms that im bored with the vw scene locally so I will check out gl gtg, h2o, to see some fresh cars ive never seen before. I kinda do my own thing, people come up to me like dude sweet dub never seen u around, and I say ya and walk away, sure im a dick, but around me everyone bags their vw, with rs's and brag about who's lower. I and HS tuning are the only ones I know of out here that are into the "go" part instead of "slow and show". LOL I feel like if I hung around locally I will be criticized for how my car was built(last rabbit). 

I do all my work because I dont trust anybody to work on my car, plus ive built cars all my life with my father, mostly muscle cars, and the only shop HS tuning tht I would let touch my car are busy with their builds, but I manage and have never had any problems with my own work, cant say the same of others who have touched my car I want to boost this rabbit and tune it around e85 but the agreement with the woman is not untill we figure out if we are staying in ohio or moving south to va or fl and buy a house. I am re-collecting parts behind her back:laugh: and only need a turbo and nuts and bolts, and I have those already in the works, I bought it all because the final portion of out agreement was I can trade the rabbit in or sell it for a mkv r32 because I have to have knee surgery again and dont want to deal with manual. Im sure ill see you at a show, Ill be the guy hobling around with a cane!lol


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

Come on greyt I wanna see this whole valve train job done along with intake manifold and some form of high octane fuel(e85) :laugh: I foresee 7500+ rpms of goodness


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> Come on greyt I wanna see this whole valve train job done along with intake manifold and some form of high octane fuel(e85) :laugh: I foresee 7500+ rpms of goodness


dont "foresee".. you know you can expect them.


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

Kevin did you:
1) buy that E85 software from Blue water?
2) Is installing the Mani simple or requires some "OH MY GOSH", "MY KNUCKLES, Damn it!", "ouch that hurts", " darn it, I broke this stupid thing", to "my back hurts"; basically from 1 to 10 (10 being most difficult)?


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## kevin splits (Aug 23, 2010)

eatrach said:


> Kevin did you:
> 1) buy that E85 software from Blue water?
> 2) Is installing the Mani simple or requires some "OH MY GOSH", "MY KNUCKLES, Damn it!", "ouch that hurts", " darn it, I broke this stupid thing", to "my back hurts"; basically from 1 to 10 (10 being most difficult)?


1) No, Bw just released the tune with optional intake manifold software, so in due time when they get ecu's to lend I will buy both.
2) I just put the oem on the the wrecked jetta and its a consistant 5 and only the "damn it i think i broke it" with the oem i'd imagine, at some points it is a solid 7 for 5 mins. I sat in a chair so no back pain..


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## eatrach (May 13, 2004)

kevin FaKiN spLits said:


> 1) No, Bw just released the tune with optional intake manifold software, so in due time when they get ecu's to lend I will buy both.
> 2) I just put the oem on the the wrecked jetta and its a consistant 5 and only the "damn it i think i broke it" with the oem i'd imagine, at some points it is a solid 7 for 5 mins. I sat in a chair so no back pain..


:thumbup: cool thanks. I am not going to do much with this car. I'm waiting to pay it off, and then get maybe a used M3, or used 911


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

finally i took pics if it...





































next week i'll get rods... in some months i'll get the pistons.

then i'll let it sit for a bit, and then is install time, along with a cranckshaft blance/ knife edge


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Lookin foward to seeing all that come together man.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

tay272 said:


> Lookin foward to seeing all that come together man.


its all happening a bit faster than i expected.

prolly wed i'll put the order for the rods, and in 1 month or 2 i'll put the one for the pistons.

then is waiting for the quotes of the install+ crankshaft balance.

and once i have that money, i'll do it.

and afterwards, i'll have my very bulletproof engine... and it'll beg for the turbo!


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

If I had the spare cash then this is exactly what Id be doing to my engine as well. I cant even imagine the power that thing will have after its all said and done, not to mention if you throw an intake mani on it as well. Add some cams and your car will be a total beast!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Dude, the mani is the very nexxt mod... 

I could buy the pistons now, but I'm putting those funds on the side while I wait for unitronic


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> while I wait for unitronic


I am feeling a little overwhelmed with who to lean towards with a tune. After doing countless hours of research, it almost seems beneficial doing a custom turbo setup. But the question always remains... C2, Unitronic, UM?!

I dont want to install an intake mani and flash with one company, then install my turbo kit and flash with another. I want to line up one company for this and stick with them through the complete build.

Are you going for a C2 build for your turbo in the future or is this still up for grabs? The SPA manifold with a T3/4 turbo etc seems very interesting to me to do and work with a custom IC with piping.

Its weird, so many ways to do this with so little suppliers lol. What are your thoughts?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

GTACanuck said:


> I am feeling a little overwhelmed with who to lean towards with a tune. After doing countless hours of research, it almost seems beneficial doing a custom turbo setup. But the question always remains... C2, Unitronic, UM?!
> 
> I dont want to install an intake mani and flash with one company, then install my turbo kit and flash with another. I want to line up one company for this and stick with them through the complete build.
> 
> ...


if i were to go custom turbo it'd be:

-a precision 5857 or a 5557
-spa mani
-eurojet intercooler
-550 bosch inyectors
-tial wastegate and bov
if possible unitronic tune, if not i'm doing some rtesearch with a standalone


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> if i were to go custom turbo it'd be:
> 
> -a precision 5857 or a 5557
> -spa mani
> ...


Looks to me the way I am heading. Foreign Automotive here near Toronto deals with Unitronic and did my friends B4 S4 and that thing is a beast. Please let me know of your findings. Im pretty new to all these ideas.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

first things first... 

and thats the mani, then its the whole engine build, then boost.

if there is no sw for me to go boost, then i'll do standalone THEN boost.

going standalone would set me back some good time from boost, but once turbo'ed it would be so much better!


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Your car is turning into a small monster that eats bigger monsters hahaha :beer:


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

already looking into standalone...

with all the diagrams at hand and proper guidance, i could do it...

and if you look at it this way:

a turbo tune from uni is usually 900$, and i dont get any special bennefits from em... so 900 it is. a basic standalone is 800 and a GOOD standalone is about 2k.... and i already paid 500 for the stage 2, so in the end i'd have to pay unitronic about 1400 + mani software to have what i want, and thats supposing they'd have it.

so continuing with the unitronic route, for every change i make, i'd have to go to em for re tune it... and with standalone, i could tune my own thing, and have a very specific "tune" for my car.. one that takes into account:
-meth
-temps
-octane available
-my very own set up.

and standalone isnt much money compared to keeping with uni... but since its a lil more expensive, i have it as a second option.... and well.. its becoming a lil more and more feasible. but as always, we play the waiting game


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

But? The tuning?

Who's gonna do that for you? I wouldn't trust just anyone to tune my car on stand alone... 

I'm sure someone could do it, but you should also factor that into price...dyno runs and tuning to get it perfect seems like an a $$ load of $$$$$


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

That is already covered... So that I can find a good base map to then fine tune...

But regarless, standalone has many many other costs, and way many othr bennefits... And it is more expensive in the long run.. But that's why its plan c.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

The best option for those crazy nights with that hot chick from the club???

Yup! Plan C.

Latex is your best friend right? Especially with that club rat! Lol

In any case going standalone is worth the extra up front cost as well as the future costs because of its complete control so I get what you're saying... Yeah in the end it'll depend on how deep those levi pockets go.

Regardless I know you'll show us what's up with that 09 lump in the bay.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

Money isn't the issue, cause if its expensive all it means is that I have to save for a longer time...

But I dunno, I just have to do things one at a time, and when the time comes I'll see what I'll do.


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