# DIY: TSI Timing Chain Tensioner Update



## erball (Apr 27, 2011)

Here is a simple DIY for updating your timing chain tensioner. This was done over the course of an afternoon with both myself and *Eurocars* from MKV. 

I would not recommend doing this job without the factory tool to hold the cranckshaft (necessary to remove the crankshaft bolt), or a 1/2 impact gun. Removing the crankshaft bolt is very difficult without it. I would also not recommend doing this without very short triple square bits (necessary for removing the lower engine mount). 

This is not an idiots guide, and if this makes you feel nervous, I would avoid doing the job yourself. 

*Remove noise pipe:*








*Pull off washer fluid fill tube:*








*Unbolt the overflow tank and move it out of the way:* 
















*Pull the fender liner & remove Turbo outlet pipe:*








*Drain Oil:*








*Support the engine with a jack and block of wood:*








*Remove passenger side engine mount:*








*Remove engine mount bracket:* (going to need short triple squares here for the three bolts)








*Remove dipstick: *(2 torx screws)








*Tape over dipstick hole to avoid debris entering the oil pan:*








*Remove serpentine belt:*








*The notch on the crank pulley will have to line up with the mark on the front cover:* (this puts cylinder one to TDC)








*Mark on crank pulley:*








*Remove crank pulley and unbolt front cover. There is one bolt underneath the serpentine belt tensioner that is quite difficult to get to. You have two options: remove the belt tensioner entirely, or (the much easier method), remove the pulley itself, and retract the tensioner to have enough clearence to get to the last bolt holding the cover on. Zip tie timing chain together and pull tensioner:*








*Install the new tensioner and pull the retaining clip to allow piston in the tensioner to push on the guide:*








*Special tool:* We made this to hold the crankshaft in place. We ended up using this in conjunction with an impact gun to pull the bolt. There is a factory tool to do this, and it's pretty cheap. 










Let me know if you guys have any questions and I'll do what I can to help.


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## zsrbpk (Jul 14, 2010)

Great DIY we need more DIYs for the Tiguan:thumbup:


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

What is the latest part number for the tensioner? 
Is there a gasket between the tensioner and the block? 
Did you have trouble prying off the chain cover? 
Did you buy a new chain cover? 
Why do you need to align the crank to TDC?


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## dpclarke5 (May 15, 2013)

*Hoses in front of upper timing cover*

Well written summary but curious about what you did with all the hoses that run in front of upper timing cover. Do you have to disconnect and drain any on them or do they all move out of the way if you undo brackets - I can't seem to find any documentation on them. Thanks for any help.


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## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

Nice DIY :thumbup: How many miles are you typically doing these?


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## ChinkyVdub (Jul 18, 2003)

a word of warning when you remove or reinstall the crankpulley the keyway on the crankshaft tends to jump tooth when removing and installing, especially with a impact gun. these chain engines are very jumpy.


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## A3Tripod (Sep 28, 2005)

Why did you need to replace the tensioner? Is that part of a regular service interval, or were experiencing some symptoms that led you to the tensioner as a fix?

Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind! I found the TSB for this apparently well-know/widespread issue. Makes me nervous as my warranty (36k) ends next week.


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## [email protected] (Oct 26, 2012)

CC'ed said:


> What is the latest part number for the tensioner?
> Is there a gasket between the tensioner and the block?
> Did you have trouble prying off the chain cover?
> Did you buy a new chain cover?
> Why do you need to align the crank to TDC?


http://www.deutscheautoparts.com/View/06K-109-467-K/06H-109-467-N/0/140957

This is the most current tensioner for the TSI. 

Please let me know if I can help with anything else.


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## thesilversurferII (Sep 26, 2012)

Hey guys do u have the TSB# for the update on the tession ??


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

any point in pre-emptively changing the tensioner? i figured the timing system in the TSI was a no-service type setup. i'm at 62,000 miles.


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## thunderstrike (Apr 2, 2008)

erball said:


> *Special tool:* We made this to hold the crankshaft in place. We ended up using this in conjunction with an impact gun to pull the bolt. There is a factory tool to do this, and it's pretty cheap.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Don't understand why the bolt is removed. Does crankshaft pulley must be removed to replace the tensioner? I don't understand this either. Can someone explain? Thanks.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

Need to pull crank pulley off so you can pull the lower chain cover off, to get to the tensioner.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

And once the pulley is removed, there is a service tool (big washer that needs to be placed against the crank gear and the bolt reinserted. If you don't do this, and remove the cover, there is noting holding the gear to the crankshaft and you will definitely get it messed up. This DYI is incomplete. Check out this guys disaster after missing a few steps: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ing-off-following-chain-tensioner-replacement


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## thunderstrike (Apr 2, 2008)

Thanks for the replies, and the caution on missing steps.


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## thunderstrike (Apr 2, 2008)

*Missing critical step*

Quote from user Shawng: When you remove the crank pulley you are supposed to use a special service tool (looks like a big washer) in place with the bolt and then remove the cover. this ensures everything stays in place. I don't believe the DIY shows or tells you that. This could be the cause of your problem.


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

1.The DIY shows the engine resting on its oil pan on a block of wood on a floor jack. Is the oil pan rigid enough to support that weight? How many engine mounts are still connected to share the load?

2.This pulley instruction sheet from Neuspeed shows removal install and torquing the crankshaft bolt from below the vehicle as well (step 8). With the engine mounts removed, do you think one could get better leverage working from the top instead. http://www.superstreetonline.com/features/news/epcp-1108-neuspeed-power-pulley-for-2-tsi-engine/

3.And about this warning from Neuspeed:
"CAUTION: THE CRANKSHAFT MUST NOT BE MOVED OUT OF THE "TDC" POSITION WHEN THE PULLEY AND BOLT IS REMOVED OR ENGINE DAMAGE WILL RESULT. DO NOT LET ENGINE TURN WHEN REMOVING OR TIGHTENING PULLEY BOLT." 
How can you possibly take this apart and then apply well over a hundred NM of torque without even slightly twisting the pulley and misaligning the teeth. What am I not understanding?

​


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## thunderstrike (Apr 2, 2008)

1 - none.


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

Robert~NRW said:


> 1.The DIY shows the engine resting on its oil pan on a block of wood on a floor jack. Is the oil pan rigid enough to support that weight? How many engine mounts are still connected to share the load?





thunderstrike said:


> 1 - none.


Well then to me it seems an engine support bridge would be a better (for the oil pan as well as for your own safety) alternative.










They aren't too expensive either compared with the VAG 10-222A
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200309403_200309403


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Robert~NRW said:


> 3.And about this warning from Neuspeed:
> "CAUTION: THE CRANKSHAFT MUST NOT BE MOVED OUT OF THE "TDC" POSITION WHEN THE PULLEY AND BOLT IS REMOVED OR ENGINE DAMAGE WILL RESULT. DO NOT LET ENGINE TURN WHEN REMOVING OR TIGHTENING PULLEY BOLT."
> How can you possibly take this apart and then apply well over a hundred NM of torque without even slightly twisting the pulley and misaligning the teeth. What am I not understanding?
> 
> ​



There is also a service tool to hold the crank pulley when tightening that will stop it from moving. It's a 2 person task. the OP fabricated a tool to do the task. Unless you have the correct tools or fabricate your own, this job SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED! Tools can be purchased from vw.snapon.com or AST makes a kit.


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

shawng said:


> There is also a service tool to hold the crank pulley when tightening that will stop it from moving. It's a 2 person task. the OP fabricated a tool to do the task. Unless you have the correct tools or fabricate your own, this job SHOULD NOT BE ATTEMPTED! Tools can be purchased from vw.snapon.com or AST makes a kit.


This tool: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Tiguan_1-4_Motion-2.0T/Engine/Timing/ES2863408/
I plan on buying or renting every available specialized tool there is to avoid frustration while under the car.
If I do this, I may also include the chain replacement itself (I'm at 82,000 mi) while I'm at it. So more tools, adapters, and so on.
I'm compiling the list right now.

I am not going to push up on the oil pan from below to raise the engine. I'm going to instead rent an engine lift which is about $60 for the weekend from my local outfit. Question: with a 'cherry picker', would I even need the bridge? Or vice versa? It seems the engine bridge (see image of my example above) has wing nuts that could be used to lift and lower the required amount to access the mounts by just using thread leverage by tightening or loosening those wing nuts. Am I completely off on that? Otherwise, I guess the lift crane picks the whole bridge up from the center?


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## hightechrdn (Dec 9, 2011)

Yes, you should use the thread rods from the bridge to the engine to raise/lower the engine. That and/or a floor jack is all that is required for removing the transmission, engine/transmission mounts, sub frame, etc. You shouldn't need a cherry picker style engine lift unless you want to remove the engine from the car completely.


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

hightechrdn said:


> Yes, you should use the thread rods from the bridge to the engine to raise/lower the engine. That and/or a floor jack is all that is required for removing the transmission, engine/transmission mounts, sub frame, etc. You shouldn't need a cherry picker style engine lift unless you want to remove the engine from the car completely.


Fantastic. Thanks.

The AlldataDIY site shows an eyebolt needing to be threaded in the transmission as a lifting point. My Tiguan has no hole but there is a cast eye opening near the transmission mount. I think that is what could be used. Interestingly, the free VW online shop manual doesn't even use this. Scroll down to midpage.
http://workshop-manuals.com/volkswa...lower_timing_chain_cover_(golf_eos_scirocco)/

Likewise AlldataDIY doesn't clearly show the passenger side engine mount. Looking at the engine, I see a heavy gauge black metal bracket bolted to the engine near the oil fill cap. It has a 1/2" opening. Going to bet that's the lifting point. And it looks like that is what the free VW online shop manual suggests.

Since the engine is held only on the passenger side, I wonder how the the transmission mount (which holds the transmission that is bolted to engine on the drivers side) doesn't get cracked when lowering and raising the passenger side of the engine??? I posted this question here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ne-transmission-mount&p=87761472#post87761472 if you'd like to respond.

Thanks.


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## OEMplusCC (Jan 27, 2013)

Question:


How do you manage to fit long handle of the T10355 when vehicle is on jack stands? Or do you just simply need to have car completely lifted in the air(on car hoist)?

Thanks


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## Robert~NRW (Aug 31, 2009)

OEMplusCC said:


> Question:
> 
> 
> How do you manage to fit long handle of the T10355 when vehicle is on jack stands? Or do you just simply need to have car completely lifted in the air(on car hoist)?
> ...


Well in my case, I read the warning from another DIY that you need a hoist to have the clearance for the VW tool. So now I am the proud owner of a Bendpak mid-rise portable lift :thumbup:

Having done a successful tensioner swap out (much thanks to the great people on this forum for their input), I believe there may be a way to work with jackstands as well. If all you are doing is changing the tensioner, you don't necessarily need to rotate the crankshaft to the TDC position (which happens to be where the long VW tool handle ends up pointing straight down). You're not replacing the timing chain in which case you would need to put the gears at that specific mark. 

So it seemed to me that all you need to do is make a mark on the pulley at _any_ position and make sure the crankshaft doesn't move from _that _mark as you remove the bolt. This method would allow the tool to be used in a more limited space but probably with much less leverage as well. If you're built like the Incredible Hulk, maybe you can cut the tool shorter to avoid scraping the ground and use it that way. It's not quite a BMW Jesus bolt, but I have to say, my buddy and I put _a lot_ of pressure on both the tool handle and the opposing 4ft breaker bar (not a pipe extension, a real 1/2" socket 4 ft breaker bar) to get the bolt off and then back on again later to the proper torque plus turn.

So life would be a heck of lot easier with at least a 30" lift. Check your locality for rental auto service bays. There are a couple in my town but I was afraid to even start the car up after reading the horror stories here - especially of the guy whose tensioner failed just as he was moving his car into the garage to service it.

I took a lot of photos and will post my own step by step DIY hopefully soon.


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## OEMplusCC (Jan 27, 2013)

Robert~NRW said:


> Well in my case, I read the warning from another DIY that you need a hoist to have the clearance for the VW tool. So now I am the proud owner of a Bendpak mid-rise portable lift :thumbup:
> 
> Having done a successful tensioner swap out (much thanks to the great people on this forum for their input), I believe there may be a way to work with jackstands as well. If all you are doing is changing the tensioner, you don't necessarily need to rotate the crankshaft to the TDC position (which happens to be where the long VW tool handle ends up pointing straight down). You're not replacing the timing chain in which case you would need to put the gears at that specific mark.
> 
> ...



Thanks for your reply, I really appreciate it. I will have to figure out something but I think I am stuck with floor jacks and floor stand. I think my max lift with stands is 20", so I will have to work with that. 

You might be right with that it is not that important to put crank to TDC as long as you keep it still(mark it) and install it same way.

Check out this crank pulley installation
http://www.ctsturbo.com/cart/CTS MK7 GTI Crank Pulley Install Instructions.pdf


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## asti1117 (Nov 11, 2010)

Hello...I just did my timing chain with great results. This post has golden information that would be smart to follow up. I did use the tools I got from Snapon (the short tips for the engine mount are a must have) and while I probably could have used the impact gun only, the long pulley holder is also of help. One thing I would like to mention here and nobody have said a word is ... the fact that the long arm pulley holder can be used FROM THE TOP not only from the bottom, especially if stands are used instead of the lift. Once the engine mount and the bracket are removed there is plenty of space to access the pulley from the top. The only disadvantage is that second STRONG person is needed for removal and installation of the bolt. I did use an impact gun only to loose the bolt then removed it very careful by hand and placed the bolt and the circular tool back on the crankshaft. Do that carefully and you should be good. Also, I put the little wire stopper of the new tensioner as far as would go, more exactly at the 8th slide. Go carefully and torque new bolt properly and should be good. I used the new cover, new crankshaft bolt and new 15 bolts and reused the ones from the mount...


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Bumping an oldish thread, I'm currently about to hit 60k and nervous about the tensioner going bad. Are the earlier part revisions more sensitive to failure? I have an 08.5 which is why I'm asking. I talked to a shop already and said they recommend getting all tensioners, guides, and chains replaced as well with this issue. Anyone have an experience that can give me input?


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Op read the date wrong, guess it's not so old lol 


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

age on the old style is irrelevant. They fail when they want to. It is random chance. As to changing all the guides and chains, it all depends on the wear. Extended oil changes tend to wear chains more than anything else. The soot that the oil filter can't remove is abrasive and is the culprit. Some cars are worse than other in this area. GM has it bad. I have not heard of the TSI having an issue. They Audi V8 has chain stretch issues. I would want to see the wear before spending the extra. There is some economy doing it all at the same time, but there is also additional cost. You will have to decide what you are comfortable with.


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## dcbc (Sep 14, 2011)

shawng said:


> older or newer old style are all the same. They fail when they want to. It is random chance. As to changing all the guides and chains, it all depends on the wear. Extended oil changes tend to wear chains more than anything else. The soot that the oil filter can't remove is abrasive and is the culprit. Some cars are worse than other in this area. GM has it bad. I have not heard of the TSI having an issue. They Audi V8 has chain stretch issues. I would want to see the wear before spending the extra. There is some economy doing it all at the same time, but there is also additional cost. You will have to decide what you are comfortable with.


They work the same in that they are activated by oil pressure upon startup. But I thought the older style had a ring which can come loose, resulting in imminent failure. My understanding was that the newer style does not have that ring.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Oops, that's did't come out right. I fixed my post. The new version does not have the spring band clip that fails.


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Thanks, I figured the same thing and based on the maintence records I have on the oil was never changed passed 5,000 miles. I was told the labor would be all the same no matter if I chose to just to the tensioner or to do the chains, guides etc. I'm constantly listening at startup to see if I hear any sort of rattle. Think I'm just psyching myself out at this point lol.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

If the oil was not changed in 50K, I would be worried about more than just the tensioner. The oil filter would be plugged and the engine would be running on unfiltered oil (bypass valve always open). Chains and guides would be the first item. I have also heard of counterbalance shafts failing due to poor oil issues.


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Maybe I should rephrase, oil changes were always on time and were always performed in 5,000mi or less intervals haha that was my fault. Don't think I'd have a car if that was the case lol


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Hopefully I'll be safe until spring. Until then, I'll listen intently for any rattling over winter


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Phew. that makes more sense. If that's the case and oil changes at 5k ish intervals, I highly doubt there is chain or guide wear. as for the tensioner, you are playing Russian roulette. It will give you no warning at all. Typically people find the car won't start and by time the let go of the key, the damage is done.


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## rebeccawaltuhs (Jul 28, 2013)

Update from my last post here. Decided to get just the tensioner replaced and leave the guides/chains. Tech who did it said everything looked immaculate when taking the cover off! Good news for me. Probably the placebo effect but I could hear the turbo spool a bit more now and engine is a bit quieter on startup


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## golf3nhl (Oct 17, 2004)

For anyone looking to do this themselves and looking for the torque specs.

Chain Tensioner - 9 nm
pulley bolt - 150 nm + 90°


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## dihorul (Nov 13, 2013)

Did anyone use a different sealant than the VW one, with the same results? Like Permatex 82120?


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

i ended up using the OEM stuff for no particular reason other that I wanted to see what it was. If you are going to use aftermarket, user Right Stuff from Permatex. It will seal the best compared to all the other RTV silicones. The most critical location is at the bottom where it hold in the oil.


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## mp66226 (Jan 28, 2015)

*On a Q5*

Anyone do this on their Q5 yet? I've got the parts and the special tools, need to work on it. Just got done with the water pump replacement and cleaning the valves after pulling the intake manifold to get at the water pump and all the hoses/stuff down there. If so, questions regarding removing the crank pulley, do you need a puller for this or does the bolt simply hold it on? Is there sufficient room between the radiator fans and the pulley bolt or did you have to remove the radiator fan or assembly? If you had to remove, anyone know of where a DIY might be for that task? Thanks in advance.


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## Pens (Aug 21, 2010)

Anyone know the sizes of the triple square bits required to remove the engine mount bracket?

Someone in an earlier post said it was 10mm but the VW tool t10099 looks to be 12mm and 14mm.

This is the tool I'm looking at.

https://vw.snapon.com/specialtoolsdetail.aspx?itemid=7790003


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## mirzabaig (Apr 2, 2016)

*08 Passat Timing Chain Replacement*

Hello everyone, I've got a 2008 Passat that I replaced the cylinder head on. Of course I removed the chain, tensioners, etc. I'm putting back all those parts now but I don't know how to use tools T10368 and T10355. I had actually put everything back before and made sure the timing marks were perfectly aligned but when I tried to start the engine, no good. I didn't know about the special tools required. Took everything apart again and saw that I stripped the crank sprocket. I bought a new one and I did more research to find out about the special tools. I now have everything I need but I haven't been able to find clear instructions on how and when to use these. My understanding is this:

1) Crank sprocket on first making sure the key on it fits correctly
2) Install big crank bolt and tool T10368
3) Put back all timing chains/tensioners according to their marks
4) Install timing covers
5) Remove crank bolt and special tool
6) Install large crank pulley and use T10355 (counter hold tool) while torquing the bolt.

I'm confused and a bit nervous about how removing the bolt after installing the cover is okay. I thought that by removing the bolt regardless of having the cover on, the tension on the chain gets loose and it'll slip or does the cover make sure it stays on??

Please if anyone has the correct steps on how to do this and use these tools, I would greatly appreciate it.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7953793-EA888-Gen-1-amp-Gen-2-Timing-Chain-Tensioner-DIY


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## 01goldie (May 30, 2003)

golf3nhl said:


> For anyone looking to do this themselves and looking for the torque specs.
> 
> Chain Tensioner - 9 nm
> pulley bolt - 150 nm + 90°


Anyone know the torque specs for the engine bracket bolts? For the 3 triple square bolts. I can't seem to find this.


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## est-071 (Aug 8, 2016)

01goldie said:


> Anyone know the torque specs for the engine bracket bolts? For the 3 triple square bolts. I can't seem to find this.


What size are the 3 triple square bolts? I need to find a tool to fit.


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## 01goldie (May 30, 2003)

est-071 said:


> What size are the 3 triple square bolts? I need to find a tool to fit.


it IS and M12. I bought a short set off Amazon. Titan (16138) socket set. $21.25. Worked perfectly.

I did need to use a breaker bar style wrench (non-ratcheting) on the upper/middle bolt as my ratchet with the triple square on it wouldn't fit between the mount and the car frame.


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## golf3nhl (Oct 17, 2004)

> *01goldie * Anyone know the torque specs for the engine bracket bolts? For the 3 triple square bolts. I can't seem to find this.


12mm Triple Square.

The torque for the three bracket fasteners is 40nm + 180°. You definitely want to replace these bolts.
If you reuse the bolt do not torque the extra 180° it will break. just torque to 40 - 45nm.

Mount to bracket is 60nm and mount to chassis is 40nm. new bolts for all 4 get a plus 90°


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## est-071 (Aug 8, 2016)

golf3nhl said:


> 12mm Triple Square.
> 
> The torque for the three bracket fasteners is 40nm + 180°. You definitely want to replace these bolts.
> If you reuse the bolt do not torque the extra 180° it will break. just torque to 40 - 45nm.
> ...


Thanks for the info, very helpful.


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## skdy (May 31, 2011)

*Tensioner Replacement*

Question: Going to do this today. Some folks who have done this indicate that you must remove the pendulum/Dog Bone mount and Intake Manifold. Is that correct, or is there enough play to move the motor up and down and remove the motor mount bracket without removing these? How about if you just remove the dogbone mount? I'd rather not have to remove the intake manifold and not sure why that would be necessary since it is fixed to motor and moves with it.

Many thanks.


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## Toñolo (Sep 3, 2016)

*1 i just replace the update 09 jetta cc tensioner. and i have the code 00017 camshaft A intake retarded sepoint not reached.. any sussgestion??*




erball said:


> Here is a simple DIY for updating your timing chain tensioner. This was done over the course of an afternoon with both myself and *Eurocars* from MKV.
> 
> I would not recommend doing this job without the factory tool to hold the cranckshaft (necessary to remove the crankshaft bolt), or a 1/2 impact gun. Removing the crankshaft bolt is very difficult without it. I would also not recommend doing this without very short triple square bits (necessary for removing the lower engine mount).
> 
> ...


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

skdy said:


> Question: Going to do this today. Some folks who have done this indicate that you must remove the pendulum/Dog Bone mount and Intake Manifold. Is that correct, or is there enough play to move the motor up and down and remove the motor mount bracket without removing these? How about if you just remove the dogbone mount? I'd rather not have to remove the intake manifold and not sure why that would be necessary since it is fixed to motor and moves with it.
> 
> Many thanks.


There is absolutely no reason to remove the dog one mount or the intake manifold. The engine does not need to move at all. The only reason to remove the side mount is becasue it's in the way.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Tonolo,
Did you read the whole thread?
Did you follow this DIY and not use the service tools?
Did you secure the crank sprocket during the procedure?

If the answers are yes, no, no, then the crank sprocket has jumped and you will have to crack open the engine and re-time everything.


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## Toñolo (Sep 3, 2016)

*09 vw cc timing chaing*

Hi erball! i just did a valve job, timing chain tensioner, guides & chain and keep getting the P0011 code A camshaft position timing over advanced..
car runs fine, has power and i double check the timing marks and they are o.k 
i noticed when i first started the car it rattles 1 to 2 seconds goes away.
any ideas????tips


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## Toñolo (Sep 3, 2016)

shanwng i think this specific ccta VW engine (2.0) 09 to 13 its gears are coded for assembly they can only be installed one way, but thanks for the tip
the car runs fine,has power once you step the gas pedal,but this code is getting confused.


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## Toñolo (Sep 3, 2016)

shanwng by the way i double check the timing marks by just removing the upper plastic cover and they are alignment with the cranck pulley.
..


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

The rattle at startup should not be there. Something is wrong. This might account for the cam timing issue. Or you assembled it a tooth off.


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## Toñolo (Sep 3, 2016)

*vw 09 cc timing chain tensioner*

shawng the tensioner is new and is the update one but it is after market.
do you think can be defected for the rattle noise??
what i going to do is teardown all the timing chain again change the factory or dealer tensioner re-timing and check 
if the code 00017 camshaft position bank 1 timing over advanced it goes away...


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

I have only used dealer tensioners, but if the aftermarket one is made by the same manufacturer, there should be no difference. I have only heard a rattle on the very first dry start. After that silence. You might have a defective one.


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

*great DIY Thank you*

New Edit: Ok I am tracking with that Timing Chain Tool now. Nevermind forget I asked. MY new question is does anybody have the part number for the tool that holds the crankshaft in place?

Thank you very much for the DIY. Can anyone explain to me the process of using the special tool on the crankshaft pulley? is it something used while breaking the mounting bolt loose? Or is it something put in place AFTER breaking the bolt loose and removing the pulley. ??? I am confused....


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

1) Remove crank center bolt.
2) Pull the crank pulley straight off, don't rotate it! Pray that the valve-spring pressure on the cams don't rotate the sprocket out-of-alignment with the crankshaft.
3) Quickly install the special tool washer (T10368) and center bolt, just tighten the bolt medium tight. 

The washer and bolt hold the crank sprocket gears tight to the face of the crankshaft, keeping them aligned, during the time that the crank pulley is not installed.


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

Thanks for the reply! So it is true yeah? If I am only doing the tensioner, engine doesn't need to be at TDC? I am not removing the timing chain. You make me nervous now about valve spring pressure. I don't see how valve spring pressure can rotate the engine on its own. I imagine One cylinder should be on a compression stroke and I would think that is enough resistance to fight against valve spring pressure. 

Thanks


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

Valve spring pressure on the ramp of a camshaft lobe applies rotational force to the camshaft. If the force is greater than the static friction of the camshaft, the cam will rotate a few degrees when the clamping force (between the crank sprocket and the nose of the crank) is released, and the chain will rotate the crank sprocket out-of-alignment with the crank, when the center bolt and pulley is removed.

At any given rotational position of the camshafts, there is always at least one cam follower sitting somewhere on a cam lobe ramp. It never happens that all the followers are at the top or bottom base of a cam lobe, at the same time.


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

CC'ed said:


> Valve spring pressure on the ramp of a camshaft lobe applies rotational force to the camshaft. If the force is greater than the static friction of the camshaft, the cam will rotate a few degrees when the clamping force (between the crank sprocket and the nose of the crank) is released, and the chain will rotate the crank sprocket out-of-alignment with the crank, when the center bolt and pulley is removed.
> 
> At any given rotational position of the camshafts, there is always at least one cam follower sitting somewhere on a cam lobe ramp. It never happens that all the followers are at the top or bottom base of a cam lobe, at the same time.


Thanks for your explanation It makes sense, and yet I am still super nervous now haha. 


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

CC'ed said:


> Valve spring pressure on the ramp of a camshaft lobe applies rotational force to the camshaft. If the force is greater than the static friction of the camshaft, the cam will rotate a few degrees when the clamping force (between the crank sprocket and the nose of the crank) is released, and the chain will rotate the crank sprocket out-of-alignment with the crank, when the center bolt and pulley is removed.
> 
> At any given rotational position of the camshafts, there is always at least one cam follower sitting somewhere on a cam lobe ramp. It never happens that all the followers are at the top or bottom base of a cam lobe, at the same time.


Does the crankshaft pulley come off relatively easy?


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Once the bolt is removed, it will fall off.


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

shawng said:


> Once the bolt is removed, it will fall off.


Good news thanks


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

This might be a stupid question but should this job be attempted without an inch pounds torque wrench? 

EDITED: never mind I can rent one from AUTOZONE, hell I might just buy one. Thanks!


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

Did the job, now my serpentine belt is wobbling around and it looks like my harmonic balancer isn't line up in the splines correctly. Interesting how that might have happened. Hopefully I didn't destroy anything. Also, the new timing chain cover doesn't have the same timing mark as the OE COVER and it isn't at 12:00 either it is more like 11:00........ 


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

sciroccoii88 said:


> Did the job, now my serpentine belt is wobbling around and it looks like my harmonic balancer isn't line up in the splines correctly. Interesting how that might have happened. Hopefully I didn't destroy anything. Also, the new timing chain cover doesn't have the same timing mark as the OE COVER and it isn't at 12:00 either it is more like 11:00........
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So what I didn't know is that the harmonic balancer can only go on one way. I just lined up my marks and went for it. And somehow I tightened her down and the splines weren't aligned. Luckily nothing got messed up. I got back in there and aligned it all correctly and I am good to go...... so far. 


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

sciroccoii88 said:


> So what I didn't know is that the harmonic balancer can only go on one way. I just lined up my marks and went for it. And somehow I tightened her down and the splines weren't aligned. Luckily nothing got messed up. I got back in there and aligned it all correctly and I am good to go...... so far.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now I have a really bad oil leak. Either my bead of permatex wasn't big enough, or it is too cold and I filled it with oil too soon. It says wait 24 hours before filling with fluid. I waited 18. 


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

Or your crooked crank-pulley damaged the seal on the cover.


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## sciroccoii88 (May 9, 2010)

Luckily that wasn't it. 


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## goldnret (Dec 27, 2016)

Was it leaking from the sealant on the cover or the crankshaft seal? 

If it was the sealant, do you think didn't apply it correctly or didn't wait long enough for it to seal?

I'm changing mine tomorrow and appreciate all the good advice and lessons learned in this thread.

Roger


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Get it done!*

Get it done folks!! 2011 gti with 80,000 miles. Just had the tensioner replaced. I dissected the old part. You can definitely see the wearing down on the old part. Failure was inevitable.


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## Jogti (Oct 7, 2016)

*Altenative crank holding tool*

http://www.kochtools.com/index.php?p=product&id=271

Crankshaft Vibration Damper Counterholding Tool
Product ID : KT20463
T10355A
$30.00


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## Hendricks433 (Feb 11, 2017)

How do you retract the belt tensioner? I am hella stuck


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## Hendricks433 (Feb 11, 2017)

So I figured it out. Holding the tensioner all the way retained with one hand and then taking off and then putting back on the cover bolt is quit the task.

Got it all done, we'll see how she runs tomorrow when I get oil back in her. 

2009 with 90,000 miles. Just bought it and found this thread searching for the weird sound at start up.


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## asti1117 (Nov 11, 2010)

I did my CC tensioner myself. IS actually not complicated if you pay attention. The images in this post do not show the crankshaft bolt being installed with the tool...THAT IS A BIG NO NO!!!!!Do NOT attempt this job without the Crankshaft bolt tool. That is where most folks screw is not using the tool...The sprockets do not have any support without the bolt in there and they will move for sure making you to hate your life. When I did mine I used an impact gun (IR w7150) to loose the bolt very little and kept the pulley from moving from TDC. I made sure nothing moves wile the bolt was removed to insert the tool. The MK6 Gti forum had a long post about this DIY but is the one to follow. The hardest part was to properly torque the bolt after words so I had someone else hold the long handle tool (don remember the tool number) while applying the proper torque... The old side engine cover got a little dented on the bottom while removing so I used a new cover. I do not recommend using the old one but I saved mine in case of emergency. I did not want to risk any leaks and got everything new. Any questions please let me know. Going for a few thousand miles with no issues. Done only the tensioner (no chains or other parts) due to short oil change intervals. Any questions let me know.


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## twillet50 (Nov 19, 2013)

My 2013 CC has an engine date code of 1/29/13. Any guesses as to whether it is an old or new tensioner?

Thanks.


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## twillet50 (Nov 19, 2013)

Visually inspected. New style tensioner with an engine build date of 1/29/2013.


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## vtraudt (Mar 1, 2010)

What is dealer and independent shop charging for labor and parts (to change the timing chain tensioner)?


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## archamedes (Nov 4, 2012)

vtraudt said:


> What is dealer and independent shop charging for labor and parts (to change the timing chain tensioner)?


I was quoted $575 for labor only. I bought the parts from ecs tuning for about $130.


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

asti1117 said:


> I did my CC tensioner myself. IS actually not complicated if you pay attention. The images in this post do not show the crankshaft bolt being installed with the tool...THAT IS A BIG NO NO!!!!!Do NOT attempt this job without the Crankshaft bolt tool. That is where most folks screw is not using the tool...The sprockets do not have any support without the bolt in there and they will move for sure making you to hate your life. When I did mine I used an impact gun (IR w7150) to loose the bolt very little and kept the pulley from moving from TDC. I made sure nothing moves wile the bolt was removed to insert the tool. The MK6 Gti forum had a long post about this DIY but is the one to follow. The hardest part was to properly torque the bolt after words so I had someone else hold the long handle tool (don remember the tool number) while applying the proper torque... The old side engine cover got a little dented on the bottom while removing so I used a new cover. I do not recommend using the old one but I saved mine in case of emergency. I did not want to risk any leaks and got everything new. Any questions please let me know. Going for a few thousand miles with no issues. Done only the tensioner (no chains or other parts) due to short oil change intervals. Any questions let me know.



I'm planning on doing this job myself also and had some questions for you or whoever wants to chime in. I just bought a 2010 Tiguan with 91k. It's a one owner car that was meticulously maintained by the dealership so I'm confident the chain and guides will be in good shape so I just plan on doing the tensioner. I ordered the complete kit from Deutsche. Is the pulley keyed or indexexed onto the crank in any way or are they just held in place together by the torque of the bolt? After removing the bolt and pulley, how much pressure is needed to be applied to the donut tool with the bolt to keep the chain gears in place and is there risk of rotating the crank while doing this since there's no longer a pulley to hold on to? And finally did you replace the engine mount bolts with new ones or just reuse the original ones? If reused did you use a different torque? 
Thanks.


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## nick-147 (Feb 21, 2017)

Are there torque specification that I need to abide by? I can't find anything else on this matter it's almost like nobody did this job by themselves. I also tried finding a service manual, but they are not available for mkVI cars yet. I'm going to be buying the update kit https://shopdap.com/store/tsi-timing-chain-tensioner-service-kit.html 
It also doesn't seem to come with the crankshaft holder or any new bolts like the one form ECS tuning.


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

nick-147 said:


> Are there torque specification that I need to abide by? I can't find anything else on this matter it's almost like nobody did this job by themselves. I also tried finding a service manual, but they are not available for mkVI cars yet. I'm going to be buying the update kit https://shopdap.com/store/tsi-timing-chain-tensioner-service-kit.html
> It also doesn't seem to come with the crankshaft holder or any new bolts like the one form ECS tuning.


Looks like it's just us. Lol
The counterhold tool does need to be purchased separately. Mine is coming from ECS. I went to my local dealer yesterday and ordered the replacement bolts for the engine mount bracket and the lower timing cover N10701501 x3
N91096702 x15
Respectively. 
And here are torque specs I found. 
Upper Cover: 80 in-lbs.
Lower Cover: 71 in-lbs. + 45 degrees
Oil Dip Stick: 80 in-lbs.
Timing Tensioner: 80 in-lbs.
Crank Pulley: 110 ft-lbs. + 90 dgrees
DriveBelt Pulley: ????
BSH Engine Mount:
Mount to Body: 30ft-lbs
Mount to Engine: 44ft-lbs
Mount top bolt: 30ft-lbs
Bracket to body: 18ft-lbs


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## nick-147 (Feb 21, 2017)

Kanook said:


> Looks like it's just us. Lol
> The counterhold tool does need to be purchased separately. Mine is coming from ECS. I went to my local dealer yesterday and ordered the replacement bolts for the engine mount bracket and the lower timing cover N10701501 x3
> N91096702 x15
> Respectively.
> ...


Thank you so much, no idea how you found this, but I appreciate it. I wonder why they shopdap doesn't give you everything you need. Wouldn't mind paying for the full package.


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## nick-147 (Feb 21, 2017)

Do I need all of those assorted bolts the ECS https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine...ing-chain-tensioner-service-kit/06k109467kkt/ kit comes with to?


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

nick-147 said:


> Do I need all of those assorted bolts the ECS https://www.ecstuning.com/b-genuine...ing-chain-tensioner-service-kit/06k109467kkt/ kit comes with to?


The kit from deutsche comes with the large pulley bolt which definitely should be replaced. The rest of the bolts, engine mount bolts and the 15 bolts that secure the chain cover, are not included. Seems like some choose to replace these and some don't. Personally I plan on using new stuff. Too inexpensive to risk oil leaks from the cover or breaking the engine mount ones. Here's another good write up. 
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992&page=13


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

1. Sealant: D174003A2 (x1)
2. CRANK BOLT: WHT001760 (X1)
3. CHAIN COVER: 06H109210Q (X1)
4. COVER SCREWS: N91096702 (X15)
5. TENSIONER: 06K109467K (X1)
6. N10552402 (X2) MOUNTING
7. N90596906 (X2) MOUNTING
8. N91029602 (X1) MOUNTING W/ STUD 
9. N10701501 (X3) MOUNTING
10.Serpentine Belt: 06J-260-849-D (option)

I just placed order above items. Paid $314 shipped from this >>>https://www.bamwholesaleparts.com/

I've searched many many dealers and above dealer is best price.


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## nick-147 (Feb 21, 2017)

IK1015 said:


> 1. Sealant: D174003A2 (x1)
> 2. CRANK BOLT: WHT001760 (X1)
> 3. CHAIN COVER: 06H109210Q (X1)
> 4. COVER SCREWS: N91096702 (X15)
> ...


Those are the part numbers I was looking for thanks. I just changed the lower chain cover to my model number. By any chance do you know if we have to wait 24 hours for the gasket to completely seal before we put the oil in? I don't know how the sealant for VW works.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

nick-147 said:


> Those are the part numbers I was looking for thanks. I just changed the lower chain cover to my model number. By any chance do you know if we have to wait 24 hours for the gasket to completely seal before we put the oil in? I don't know how the sealant for VW works.


When I had mine done, I dropped it of in the morning and picked it up that evening after work so I would say no.


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## Hendricks433 (Feb 11, 2017)

Check the sealant container. I got the Deutsche Auto Parts kit and it was a 24 hour cure time before putting new oil in the engine.


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## Scoper50 (Mar 8, 2015)

I think it's also important to note that if any of the old bolts are re used they cannot be torqued like new bolts. Specifically the torque to yield bolts. If you torque a used bolt to X lb ft, and then try and turn it an additional 90 degrees you will likely break it. Just something to be aware of.


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

How hard to do with only jack stand without lift? Counter hold tool is 33" long.....
I may cut or bend T10355A to fit under car... Anyone has tips? Thanks for help!

Is that OK to use power tool or air tool to remove crank bolt while using counter hold tool?


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## archamedes (Nov 4, 2012)

IK1015 said:


> How hard to do with only jack stand without lift? Counter hold tool is 33" long.....
> I may cut or bend T10355A to fit under car... Anyone has tips? Thanks for help!
> 
> Is that OK to use power tool or air tool to remove crank bolt while using counter hold tool?


I did it on my b6 passat using a small jack under the engine to raise and lower as needed, and had my wife hold the tool from up top to hold the crank in place. Easy peasy. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

archamedes said:


> I did it on my b6 passat using a small jack under the engine to raise and lower as needed, and had my wife hold the tool from up top to hold the crank in place. Easy peasy.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


I thought that too and I will ask my wife to hold tool. 
Do you only support engine by jack with wood block? or use engine support bar?
Thanks!


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

IK1015 said:


> I thought that too and I will ask my wife to hold tool.
> Do you only support engine by jack with wood block? or use engine support bar?
> Thanks!


My plan as well. She may be small but she's strong. 
Separate note. Why do I have a fear that as soon as I remove the pulley bolt and before I can secure the doughnut/washer tool, the chain gears behind the cover are going to unravel like a clock spring?
Irrational fear?


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

Kanook said:


> My plan as well. She may be small but she's strong.
> Separate note. Why do I have a fear that as soon as I remove the pulley bolt and before I can secure the doughnut/washer tool, the chain gears behind the cover are going to unravel like a clock spring?
> Irrational fear?


I think until removed lower cover, sprocket won't move that why secures that with washer and bolt?


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## archamedes (Nov 4, 2012)

IK1015 said:


> I thought that too and I will ask my wife to hold tool.
> Do you only support engine by jack with wood block? or use engine support bar?
> Thanks!


Ha ha ha I meant the Snap-on T10355A tool. Jack and block of wood. Worked like a charm. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

Done! That was a lot easier than I thought. Took me about 5 hours. A word of caution though to prevent the $120 mistake I made. There is a part called a camshaft adjuster magnet that is located on the upper timing chain cover. If you route the the counter hold tool up through the hood be careful with the electrical plug coming off this part. My wife was holding the tool and I didn't warn her and the plastic plug got busted off while she was trying to hold the counter hold tool against my wrenching on the pulley bolt from below. Other than that all went smooth. Pictures are the old tensioner and the new one and the busted plug on the adjuster magnet and the new one installed


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

Kanook said:


> Done! That was a lot easier than I thought. Took me about 5 hours. A word of caution though to prevent the $120 mistake I made. There is a part called a camshaft adjuster magnet that is located on the upper timing chain cover. If you route the the counter hold tool up through the hood be careful with the electrical plug coming off this part. My wife was holding the tool and I didn't warn her and the plastic plug got busted off while she was trying to hold the counter hold tool against my wrenching on the pulley bolt from below. Other than that all went smooth. Pictures are the old tensioner and the new one and the busted plug on the adjuster magnet and the new one installed


Glad to hear you did this smoothly and thank for tips.
How about inserting washer and bolt to sprocket? Was that no problem and no moving?
Forgot to ask old tensioner condition?


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

IK1015 said:


> Glad to hear you did this smoothly and thank for tips.
> How about inserting washer and bolt to sprocket? Was that no problem and no moving?
> Forgot to ask old tensioner condition?


No movement with the gears. 
The old tensioner looks completely fine but I'm still glad I did it


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Looks like the cam adjuster that got broken was starting to leak and the new one is the upgraded plastic model.


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

Just replace to updated tensioner during weekend. Some bolts were really PITA to remove and install like one of engine mount bracket bolt. Inspected old tesioner looks fine at 83k miles. Glad to done this and thank for DIY and tips!
One question, when reinstalling crank pulley and applying torque, pulley must align with timing mark and stay TDC.


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## bisakm6 (Mar 23, 2017)

Hey everyone,

I need to re-time my TSI. I did purchase the crankshaft counter hold tool and it works wonderfully. I did not order the crankshaft bushing/washer to hold the sprockets in place. I can see that one of the sprockets behind is in the way of me fully inserting the crankshaft bolt (probably the consequences of not buying the tool). What would be the suggestion for the next step? I want to time the chains but will I be able to put everything back together without that crank holding washer? Also, can I get away with timing the cams without the cam holding tools? 

Thank you very much!! Hope to put it back together this weekend!


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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

Kanook said:


> Done! That was a lot easier than I thought. Took me about 5 hours. A word of caution though to prevent the $120 mistake I made. There is a part called a camshaft adjuster magnet that is located on the upper timing chain cover. If you route the the counter hold tool up through the hood be careful with the electrical plug coming off this part. My wife was holding the tool and I didn't warn her and the plastic plug got busted off while she was trying to hold the counter hold tool against my wrenching on the pulley bolt from below. Other than that all went smooth. Pictures are the old tensioner and the new one and the busted plug on the adjuster magnet and the new one installed


Did you disconnect your turbo? What's are those unbolted flanges in the left? Looks good, where did you buy the holder tool and how does she run?


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

^That is turbo muffler. Removing that out of way to access lower cover bolt.


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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

IK1015 said:


> ^That is turbo muffler. Removing that out of way to access lower cover bolt.


Necessary? I thought just the discharge pipe was good enough? I'm still on the fence about doing this friggen job, i see the urgency but without a symptom it's hard to justify when I need other things done. Definitely on my to do list for this spring/summer. Probably not chains and guides though.


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

notovicrious said:


> Necessary? I'm still on the fence about doing this friggen job, i see the urgency but without a symptom it's hard to justify when I need other things done. Definitely on my to do list for this spring/summer. Probably not chains and guides though.


I think not for bolt. I removed muffler because there was no room for removing lower cover.
Not easy job because of limited space, but not really hard to do. Time consuming and patient.....
IMO, only labor around $500~$700 will be good price if you find shop to do.


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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

IK1015 said:


> I think not for bolt. I removed muffler because there was no room for removing lower cover.
> Not easy job because of limited space, but not really hard to do. Time consuming and patient.....
> IMO, only labor around $500~$700 will be good price if you find shop to do.


You lowered the motor passenger side? Still not much room right?


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## IK1015 (Jul 28, 2009)

notovicrious said:


> You lowered the motor passenger side? Still not much room right?


What do you mean lowered motor? I did support engine while and after removing engine mount to stay in place.


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

notovicrious said:


> I'm still on the fence about doing this friggen job, i see the urgency but without a symptom it's hard to justify when I need other things done. Definitely on my to do list for this spring/summer. Probably not chains and guides though.


You do realize that the visible symptom of a no start is followed immediately by engine failure?


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

notovicrious said:


> Did you disconnect your turbo? What's are those unbolted flanges in the left? Looks good, where did you buy the holder tool and how does she run?


Sorry I don't get notifications on this thread. 
I originally just removed the cold air pipe for the turbo but the elbow piece at the rear was still interfering with removing the cover easily. The elbow piece was attached with 3 Allen head bolts. I removed two and left the 3rd one loose and the elbow rotated out of the way. I got the new part from Deutsche and the counterhold tool from ECS.


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## Kanook (Mar 3, 2017)

notovicrious said:


> You lowered the motor passenger side? Still not much room right?


Lowering or raising the motor is only necessary to gain access to one of the bolts for the engine mount bracket. I have a Tiguan and it seems to have more room but I still had to raise the motor a little to get one of the three bolts out.


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## supra661 (Mar 22, 2007)

Kanook said:


> Lowering or raising the motor is only necessary to gain access to one of the bolts for the engine mount bracket. I have a Tiguan and it seems to have more room but I still had to raise the motor a little to get one of the three bolts out.


OK @Kanook... Question for you. I can't see the photos in the original DIY, and in your photos from earlier this year I cannot see what the view fromthe top of the engine bay looked like... But the fact that you accidentally broke the CAM timing adjuster part's electrical connector off leads me to think that you did not remove the upper timing cover at all. Is that the case? --I'm just trying to understand if the job can really be done like that?

Also, did you replace the lower timing cover or any other components in the process of reassembly?

Thanks!


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## Hendricks433 (Feb 11, 2017)

supra661 said:


> Kanook said:
> 
> 
> > Lowering or raising the motor is only necessary to gain access to one of the bolts for the engine mount bracket. I have a Tiguan and it seems to have more room but I still had to raise the motor a little to get one of the three bolts out.
> ...


Removing upper timing cover is not necessary at all.

When removing the lower timing cover it's almost certain to be bent and will need to be replaced.


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## MAUIJIM04 (Jul 16, 2015)

I just completed the tensioner replacement tonight. A few thoughts:
1. It took about 5.5 hours, longer than I thought
2. Removing the lower timing cover was a PIA. The cover was hitting against the serpentine belt tensioner on one side, and the turbo outlet on the other. I wound up removing the 3 5mm bolts on the turbo outlet so I could move it aside a little, and that was the ticket for removing the cover. BTW, there is only a rubber inlaid gasket on the turbo outlet, so not worries about having to replace the gasket. Went back on smoothly.
3. I did buy the kit from HSTuning, and it was as expected. I bought the counterhold tool, and I THOUGHT I ordered the crank bolt special tool. But I realized I hadn't as I was searching for it when I was ready to remove the crank pulley. What I did was find a scrap piece of pvc pipe that was slightly larger than the bolt, and I cut it down to about 1/4". It worked perfectly. The only thing that 'special tool' is, is a spacer. I hand turned the bolt with my spacer onto the gears, no prob
4. Like others, I used jackstands and blocks to support the engine from below. I actually had 2 bottle jacks, one right at the trans/engine seam, and a floor jack with a block of wood under the oil pan. That way, I was spreading the load. It worked just fine.
5. Counterhold tool. I had a neighbor use it from above the engine. So I didn't do TDC. As others noted, you don't have to, as long as you don't move the serrated gears once the bolt is out. I made a mark (with a utility knife) on the cover where the notch in the crank pulley was. The pulley only goes on one way, so you can't really mess it up. There was some anxiety when you remove the bolt, as if the engine were to move at all (think valve spring compression), that would be bad. I had the notch on the pulley at about the 7 o'clock position. 
6. I used a 5in1 tool to get under the cover and loosen it up. I would have had no problem re-using the old cover, but the kit came with a new one. Also saves time cleaning up the old one. Make sure you clean the surfaces with a razor blade (on the block). There was a bunch of rubberized residue from the old sealant.
7. I can see how you can break the plastic oil tube. Be careful removing it. 

I examined the old tensioner, and the pawls definitely looked worn. It was laughable how easy it was to remove that metal ring. I just put my nail under it and it popped right. Crappy design for sure. The new design looks solid. Hopefully it provides for years of dependability.


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

Anybody have the pictures from the OP saved anywhere?  They are dead links here and on the Mk5/Mk6 forums.


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## Gear_Cruncher (Mar 28, 2013)

Wow, I'm not an engineer, but even I could think of a better setup than that! :what: How about a heavy duty bracket with hardened dished wheel to tension the back side of that chain. It looks like that plastic set up could fail at any time. 


Anyway, thanks for the pics, now I know what I'm dealing with. My car was built 1/13 ... so not sure if that's the new tensioner or not?


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## Scoper50 (Mar 8, 2015)

82Turbo930 said:


> Wow, I'm not an engineer, but even I could think of a better setup than that! :what: How about a heavy duty bracket with hardened dished wheel to tension the back side of that chain. It looks like that plastic set up could fail at any time.
> 
> 
> Anyway, thanks for the pics, now I know what I'm dealing with. My car was built 1/13 ... so not sure if that's the new tensioner or not?


The plastic chain guide isn’t what fails. These motors go their entire service lives with the plastic chain guides with little to no wear. It’s the chain tensioner you have to worry about. An engine built in January 2013 (engine build date, not the car) will most likely have the updated tensioner. But the only way to know for sure is to pull the inspection plug and look at it.


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## Gear_Cruncher (Mar 28, 2013)

Scoper50 said:


> The plastic chain guide isn’t what fails. These motors go their entire service lives with the plastic chain guides with little to no wear. It’s the chain tensioner you have to worry about. An engine built in January 2013 (engine build date, not the car) will most likely have the updated tensioner. But the only way to know for sure is to pull the inspection plug and look at it.


Thanks... I was hoping I could run the VIN somewhere and know for sure. If not, it doesn't seem too bad to pop the cover off and peek.


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## M3clubracer (Feb 1, 2015)

I can not find anyone to tell me how to adjust the wire "spring" that goes around the plunger that looks to keep the plunger from moving rearward (or collapsing) the tensioner. This is not the curved release metal keeper plate that you remove just after install. Do you adjust the wire keeper rearward after removing the curved release metal keeper plate?


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## Scoper50 (Mar 8, 2015)

Take a picture of what you are talking about 


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

The spring is self adjusting, you should not manually move it. When you pull the shipping retainer out (after bolting the tensioner to the block), the piston moves out, and the spring self adjusts and rests against the right side of the square opening.


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## M3clubracer (Feb 1, 2015)

I have a picture but VWV requires a url to post a pic and I don't have that. It seems as if I'm even more hosed now as I was turning the crank by hand and saw and heard the chain jump on the intake.


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## Scoper50 (Mar 8, 2015)

The tensioner is self adjusting. You don’t need to do anything to the spring. And why on earth would you turn the crank with the chain cover off?


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## M3clubracer (Feb 1, 2015)

Scoper50 said:


> The tensioner is self adjusting. You don’t need to do anything to the spring. And why on earth would you turn the crank with the chain cover off?
> 
> http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55992&page=9
> post 115
> I turned to check to see if anything had jumped time.


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## Scoper50 (Mar 8, 2015)

Did your old tensioner fail?


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## M3clubracer (Feb 1, 2015)

Yes it did. My intake cam mark is now at 3:00 and the rest is at TDC. It ran fine when I shut it off. It cranked a couple if turns more than usual but that was bc of the timing imbalance. I hope I haven't bent valves. May try a Harbor Freight bore scope.


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## M3clubracer (Feb 1, 2015)




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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

Does anyone have the pictures of how to change the CCT from the original DIY?


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## littlelenny1 (Jan 28, 2018)

*What size short triple squares did you use?*

You indicated to remove engine mount bracket: (going to need short triple squares here for the three bolts) for your post "DIY: TSI Timing Chain Tensioner Update" what size short triple squares did you use?
And how did you take the bolt off for the belt tensioner pulley. Did it come off but turning in a clockwise or counter clockwise direction?

Thanks

Lenny


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

littlelenny1 said:


> You indicated to remove engine mount bracket: (going to need short triple squares here for the three bolts) for your post "DIY: TSI Timing Chain Tensioner Update" what size short triple squares did you use?
> And how did you take the bolt off for the belt tensioner pulley. Did it come off but turning in a clockwise or counter clockwise direction?
> 
> Thanks
> ...


It's an M12 triple square if I remember right (just did it 2 weeks ago).

The bolt is a regular thread, it isn't particularly tight, just tricky because the tensioner will move around. I used an impact to remove it. Torque to 17 ft lbs when reinstalling.


Now I have a question, there is no need to pre prime the new tensioner at all, is there? I had quite a loud noise for about 5-10 seconds on the first start. I just moved the car from the shop to the garage then, it ran just fine, no lights, could rev fine as well, and I let it idle for a little while. Now, after it had been sitting for a few days, this morning the car would not start. I think (and hope) it's the battery, since it had a bunch of low voltage codes when i bought it in December, and I have not driven it all winter pretty much, other than to and from the shop just across the yard. It was also doing weird things while cranking (window rolled down by itself). 
My plan is to measure battery voltage & scan for codes tonight, if none of the telltale timing codes are present, I will charge the battery if needed or jump start it. Is that reasonable?


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

Alright, battery voltage was 11.6 or so, and no suspect codes, so I put a new battery in (the one on the car was way too small) and it purrs like a kitten again.

Unfortunately, there was a fairly large drip of oil on the timing chain side, I'll have to investigate later. There was an oil leak there before, and I think it might have been the timing cover and the lower oil pan, so hopefully now it's just the lower oil pan.


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

Anybody else get a letter about a class action lawsuit settlement concerning timing chains and timing chain tensioners? Has several methods for extending warranty and obtaining reimbursement for previous repairs. Didn't see anything about reimbursement for preventative change of the tensioner.


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## najel (Apr 10, 2008)

Triumph said:


> Anybody else get a letter about a class action lawsuit settlement concerning timing chains and timing chain tensioners? Has several methods for extending warranty and obtaining reimbursement for previous repairs. Didn't see anything about reimbursement for preventative change of the tensioner.


I would think any tensioner that was replaced penetratively wood be considered failed since it almost certainly showed wear that was not supposed to be there (on the ratcheting mechanism).

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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

Triumph said:


> Anybody else get a letter about a class action lawsuit settlement concerning timing chains and timing chain tensioners? Has several methods for extending warranty and obtaining reimbursement for previous repairs. Didn't see anything about reimbursement for preventative change of the tensioner.


They aren't going to pay you to replace it if it isn't broken. If it breaks within 100k miles then they will depending on how long it takes for you to get to 100k. It's all in the letter you just gotta read it. If it isn't in the letter it isn't happening.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

I just sent in my claim for the tensioner. Unfortunately the shop that changed mine did not put my mileage on the invoice, so who knows. I also don't have all of the service records for all of the oil changes.


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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

Basically if you do your own work your screwed.


vwbrvr6 said:


> I just sent in my claim for the tensioner. Unfortunately the shop that changed mine did not put my mileage on the invoice, so who knows. I also don't have all of the service records for all of the oil changes.


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

160,000 miles on original timing tensioner ($1,200) to replace, leaking rear main seal and might as well change the clutch and flywheel while i’m in there ($2,000)....My only hope is for someone to hit me, I’d get way more from an insurance claim than i’d ever get selling the car. :laugh:


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

notovicrious said:


> Basically if you do your own work your screwed.


Well, we'll see what happens, it says you can also submit a sworn statement attesting to the fact that you conducted all of the required maintenance which I did.


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## 1172482 (Dec 22, 2015)

vwbrvr6 said:


> Well, we'll see what happens, it says you can also submit a sworn statement attesting to the fact that you conducted all of the required maintenance which I did.


That was easy.


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## exninja (Aug 29, 2013)

My tensioner died at 100,500 miles


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## ralfberserk (Sep 22, 2018)

*drain oil*

I just did an oil change and will change timing chain tensioner after that, it´s really necessary to drain oil?


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## swazey (Nov 17, 2014)

ralfberserk said:


> I just did an oil change and will change timing chain tensioner after that, it´s really necessary to drain oil?


It's always a good idea to change the oil. It's cheap enough where it just makes sense to do so

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## swazey (Nov 17, 2014)

Triumph said:


> 160,000 miles on original timing tensioner ($1,200) to replace, leaking rear main seal and might as well change the clutch and flywheel while i’m in there ($2,000)....My only hope is for someone to hit me, I’d get way more from an insurance claim than i’d ever get selling the car.


If the rear main isn't leaking too bad and your clutch isn't slipping there's no reason to spend the $$ now. Do the tensioner, chain and guides, and carbon cleaning and you'll be good for another 160k 

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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

swazey said:


> If the rear main isn't leaking too bad and your clutch isn't slipping there's no reason to spend the $$ now. Do the tensioner, chain and guides, and carbon cleaning and you'll be good for another 160k
> 
> Sent from my LG-LS998 using Tapatalk


Yeah it's not too bad. Maybe a half a quart over an oil change? Never had a single hint of carbon fouling, either. Maybe I'll just do the tensioner.


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## CC'ed (Dec 1, 2009)

ralfberserk said:


> I just did an oil change and will change timing chain tensioner after that, it´s really necessary to drain oil?


The factory service manual procedure says to drain the oil because a full crankcase will allow oil to be high enough to get oil on the lower sealing surface of the lower timing chain cover, and oil will prevent the proper curing and seal of the RTV gasket material.


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## findalex (Aug 15, 2018)

*bolts for CBFA engine*

I have a CBFA engine on my '09 A3 I'm preparing to work on. I'd like to confirm the following are one-time-use bolts that I must/should replace, and also the part numbers since some are coming up different from the parts mentioned earlier in this thread:

2x 18 mm engine mount to engine bracket = N10552402
1x 16 mm engine mount to body = N90596906
1x 16 mm engine mount to body with stud = N91029602
1x crank pulley bolt = WHT001760

2x tensioner screw = N10554005
15x lower timing cover bolt = N91096702
3x engine bracket bolt triple-square = N90628303 (M10x95) or N90597005 (M10x70x32) or N10701501 (M10x65)

Q1: Is the tensioner screw a one-time use bolt?

Q2: The timing cover bolt comes up as not fitting my engine on FCP Euro even though it's part of KIT-523212 that's supposed to fit my car? Is it a one-time use bolt? I see some blue lock-tite on it.

Q3: The engine bracket triple-square bolts in the KIT-523212 is N10701501 (M10x65), but it shows up as not fitting my car. The online parts catalog shows two other bolts N90628303 (M10x95) and N90597005 (M10x70x32) which are different sizes.

Can someone with access to the latest ETKA confirm the part numbers? I don't want to open everything up and then find out I have the wrong bolts when putting things back together. My VIN is WAUHE78P99A082880.

Thanks!

Alex


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## Triumph (Nov 27, 2000)

There is a lot of misinformation around the net about one-time use bolts. The only truly one-time use bolts are those that are stretch-to-yield or torque-to-yield, meaning that they are tightened to a point where they take a permanent stretch that is not removed when the bolt is loosened. This is not a characteristic inherent to the design of the bolt, it is almost completely dependent upon the installation method specified. *ALL* bolts can be "torqued-to-yield."

Some bolts are one-time use just because they come new with loctite pre-applied, instead of specifying the addition of loctite.

Some bolts are one-time use just because of logistics and cost reasons.

Some bolts are one-time use for initial ease of manufacturing reasons. 

Some bolts are one-time use because they are installed with a high enough torque value to permanently stretch. The same bolt could be used somewhere else in the car and not be torqued-to-yield.

So to answer your question! I don't know. You can assume they are NOT torque-to-yield if they have a fairly low torque value for the size of the bolt. How low is low? Depends on the size and grade of the bolt. This chart gives you an idea: https://www.fastenal.com/content/me...nt-library/Torque-Tension Reference Guide.pdf

If you go over these values, that still doesn't mean they are torque to yield. But if you're below these values, you are pretty safe. Most bolts on a VAG product are going to be grade 10.9 or 12.9, some 8.8, almost never a 4.6.


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