# Twincharged jetta 1.8t project



## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Here's one of my projects I'm working on right now. 

AZG Block, @ 83mm bore 
AZG crank 
Manley rods 
Mahle Powerpack pistons 
Billet mains (have 'em, why not) 
ARP bolts top and bottom 
AEB head 
Revolver cams 
Cat gold springs 
FX400 
02M quattro (awd swap..... eventually. Next summer maybe?) 
LS2 truck coils 
Uni830 until I can get a custom tune 
Siemens 830cc injectors w/ Bosch 2000s as a backup 
044 in a surge tank w/ stock intank lift pump 
Cxracing front mount and meth injection 

I think that's about it. 

Boost will be provided by an HY35 56/56/9 and Eaton M62. Goals are 450-500whp with no traction, ever, anywhere. Why? Because a bt1.8t, out of boost is dog and sometimes, just sometimes, I don't want to have to get on it to go up a hill or pass someone on the highway and the TT tranny I have has really tall gears. Also, its a cool factor of 10,000. 


I'm wrapping up the exhaust manifold tonight. I should have the intake manifold done tomorrow. All parts are getting dropped off at the machine shop once the manifolds are done. 


With that said, here's some fab shots of where I'm at right now.


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## One-Eight GTI (Jan 5, 2010)

Sweet, watching this, everything so far looks awesome:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

As usual Im lol'ing at one of pats builds. 

Nothing like throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at a build.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

Cool build.:thumbup:


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Goals are 450-500whp with no traction, ever, anywhere.
> Also, its a cool factor of 10,000.


 Worded just about perfectly. This is also a future project I would like to take on an adventure, I kind of want to do it with a nice Vortech or something though. Not sure how, but that's why it's going to be an adventure. 

I will surely be following this, good luck :thumbup: 

Edit: What do you do about the turbo pressure against the supercharger? Wouldn't the turbo, once it reaches and goes beyond the charger pressure, start to force air into the charger? Or is there something I'm missing that doesn't let that happen. Kind of curiosity if I ever do take on something like this. My thoughts for if I ever went this route with a Vortech would be to use some kind of large check valve off the charger to prevent the higher turbo pressure from forcing its way into the charger. 

I can obviously see the point here is for the charger to make up for the lower end power the big turbo won't make...but is this more efficient than say having a supercharger CHARGE the turbo inlet and have it spool faster? I feel like in that case wherever the supercharger chokes out it doesn't matter because it's already done its work spooling the turbo.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I suspect that at high rpm having the supercharger before the turbo may cause it to choke. 

Having it after the turbo it would just multiply the pressure ratio, but at some point become a restriction 

Either way this thing is gonna rip, from idle to redline. 

Pat, what are the 'revolver' cams?


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

Omg this is going to be awesome! Like Rokka's build; except contemporary, and stateside :heart::beer::thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> As usual Im lol'ing at one of pats builds.
> 
> Nothing like throwing everything, including the kitchen sink, at a build.


 
I'm hoping that's a good lol and not a bad lol. :laugh: But seriously, I have problems, and I know it. I want power, yes. But I want torque, in a volkswagen, and want it immediately. I have v8's to compete with hah 




zrau17 said:


> Edit: What do you do about the turbo pressure against the supercharger? Wouldn't the turbo, once it reaches and goes beyond the charger pressure, start to force air into the charger? Or is there something I'm missing that doesn't let that happen. Kind of curiosity if I ever do take on something like this. My thoughts for if I ever went this route with a Vortech would be to use some kind of large check valve off the charger to prevent the higher turbo pressure from forcing its way into the charger.
> 
> I can obviously see the point here is for the charger to make up for the lower end power the big turbo won't make...but is this more efficient than say having a supercharger CHARGE the turbo inlet and have it spool faster? I feel like in that case wherever the supercharger chokes out it doesn't matter because it's already done its work spooling the turbo.


 Yes, that's exactly how it works. How you regulate the pressure is take your wastegate signal post charger. IF, say, I wanted to run 35psi total, I would reference my wastegate signal post-supercharger, which would be 10ish psi alone. The turbo, then, would do whatever it needs to to keep total system pressure at 35psi. The SC does act as a restriction, but because the SC is already moving more air than the engine can consume, shouldn't be too big of an issue. 

You can not put the sc before the turbo. The sc does not move enough air to keep the turbo from choking. You have to figure, the turbo (variable flow) could only consume the air the SC outputs (fixed flow). That is, unless you are running a MASSIVE supercharger, like the drag guys where the SC is twice the size of the engine block. 

Also, Vortec and other centrifugal chargers are the worst charger to use in this application. With (typical steer car) centrifugal chargers, you don't really start moving air until the engine is already halfway through the powerband. By that time, the turbo is already up to speed. 



Dave926 said:


> Pat, what are the 'revolver' cams?


 
Revolver are an older set of cams. I found a set local to where I was working for a steal, and couldn't pass them up. 

Duration / Intake: 248º @1mm 
Duration / Exhaust: 258º @1mm 
Valve Lift / Intake: 8.9 mm 
Valve Lift / Exhaust: 10.5 mm 



Rod Ratio said:


> Omg this is going to be awesome! Like Rokka's build; except contemporary, and stateside :heart::beer::thumbup:


 Rokka is one of the few that have influenced my illness. It saddens me, though, that he used a g60.


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## Blackfin (Mar 10, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I'm hoping that's a good lol and not a bad lol. :laugh: But seriously, I have problems, and I know it. I want power, yes. But I want torque, in a volkswagen, and want it immediately. I have v8's to compete with hah


 :beer:


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## zrau17 (Apr 21, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Yes, that's exactly how it works. How you regulate the pressure is take your wastegate signal post charger. IF, say, I wanted to run 35psi total, I would reference my wastegate signal post-supercharger, which would be 10ish psi alone. The turbo, then, would do whatever it needs to to keep total system pressure at 35psi. The SC does act as a restriction, but because the SC is already moving more air than the engine can consume, shouldn't be too big of an issue.
> 
> You can not put the sc before the turbo. The sc does not move enough air to keep the turbo from choking. You have to figure, the turbo (variable flow) could only consume the air the SC outputs (fixed flow). That is, unless you are running a MASSIVE supercharger, like the drag guys where the SC is twice the size of the engine block.
> 
> Also, Vortec and other centrifugal chargers are the worst charger to use in this application. With (typical steer car) centrifugal chargers, you don't really start moving air until the engine is already halfway through the powerband. By that time, the turbo is already up to speed.


 My bad, I missed a point in my pre-turbo charger plan...essentially have the inlet be a big Y with a filter on side and the outlet from the charger coming in from the other, that way it doesn't act as a restriction. Then, use that same apparently huge check valve idea on the filter side so once the turbo starts pulling more air than the charger can supply it can pull from the outside air. 

Maybe I'm crazy and that's not how it works..but whatever haha. 

So even with more pressure coming from the turbo and charger sitting over that incoming air...once the pressure breaks the point of what the charger is making PSI-wise it shouldn't try and back pressure it? Hm, I guess if the motor keeps up it'll just keep taking whatever is coming into it. 

So yes, I agree with someone above statement that the car will haul ass throughout the entire RPM range. Awesome. 

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That's exactly how the stock 1.4l twin charged motor works in Europe. They even go so far as the use a clutch to disengage the supercharger 

That's a BETTER way to do it. But also complicated. I'm not bothering with all that jazz.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I tried to get some nice shots of the welds. Unfortunately... "DROID" 



































I may start on this tonight. I don't know if I'm feeling frisky or not yet.


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## rains (May 30, 2008)

Kick ass idea. I'll be watching this thread :beer:


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

*FV-QR*

You're never 1 to disappoint. 
Good luck.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I lol at the builds because your nuts. 

Like the compound hx52 turbo setup you were going to do on _an 8v_. 

Thought it was a joke until i saw yoh were a nuclear welder. Maybe the radiation is getting to you?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I kind of wish I followed through with that one. It would have been interesting for sure :laugh:


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## Three3Se7en (Jul 2, 2007)

Very nice. I'll be watching this one!


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Had to nap today. Didn't get it done, but close.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

eace: Holy progress Batman


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

l88m22vette said:


> eace: Holy progress Batman


X2 :beer:


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## Andaloons (Apr 16, 2004)

Instant notification by email!


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## Rod Ratio (Jun 6, 2012)

The rest of this looney build


http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5524872-1000-awhp-or-bust


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That's the sister project. I'm hoping to have this 1.8tc to water fest. On the way to the machine shop now with a trunk full of ****

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Motor should be back from the shop this week which means it's time to kick some ass.

Last week the car was rewired from auto vr6 to manual 1.8t. The auto VR6 02 harness had to be spliced together with the awp 02 harness - the manual awp harness pinout at the bulkhead was too far off to make work.

So the surge tank took the place of the wiper fluid tank. I used the space where the power steering reservoir and coolant overflow tank to make a meth tank, totaling a decent 1.25 gallons. Beats the hell out of the stock 3-liter washer bottle. I still have to wait for the fill cap to come in.










































None of the catch cans on the market are close to what I wanted, large volume, 4" diameter, swirl pot design - so I built my own.


























Oh yeah. 





It fits.

I wanted to have the power steering pump mounted tonight, but I'm dead tired. Tomorrow I'll get the PS pump mounted, intercooler mounted, and hopefully have some charge piping done.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Good stuff man:beer:


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## Beat the Heat (Apr 4, 2005)

Looking forward to the finished product.


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## BR_337 (Sep 3, 2011)

awesome:thumbup::thumbup:opcorn:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I apologize in advance for the horrible pictures today. I mounted the PS pump and intercooler.

Because of the supercharger, the alternator will have to go where the power steering pump is. I don't want to give up power steering, especially in a mk4, so in goes a mk2 toyota MR2 ehps pump.



















The intercooler I put a little low, so the boost piping would be completely hidden. Also, this gives me an extra three bars of exposed intercooler, AND lines the air trap up to opening of the stock bumper AND should let me keep the stock vents. The valence will be pushed forward a little bit, but it shouldn't be too noticeable, once I get a replacement one.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I had to modify the surge tank. The IE plate is great and convenient but depending on tank design and fuel consumption rate, could cause an overhead splash return line which foams over the fuel. So I added some guide tubes on the stock tank feed line and fuel retail return fitting to make sure any fuel entering the tank enters at the bottom. unfortunately the threads on one of the fittings got damaged, so I just welded the fittings to the flange face.



















Some actually decent shots of the intercooler mounted up:


















And the lower brackets:










I also started on the charge piping. I'm hoping the machine shop has the motor and the turbo flange done so I can finish the piping. I still have to weld the TB flange to the supercharger casing, add the BOV flange to IC piping, and add vac ports, map, and IAT to the supercharger casing.


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

in, opcorn:


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Looking good Pat! :thumbup:



Quick question, I've read mixed reviews about methanol/ethanol and aluminum tanks. Are you at all worried about corrosiveness and are you considering anodizing the tank?


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## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

If I may, can I share some advice on the welds; another weld bead should be placed to cap off all welds b/c it currently looks like there's some undercutting on the weld joints. For maximum strength the weld bead should protrude pass the joint by at least 1/16".

Project looks great :thumbup:



Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I tried to get some nice shots of the welds. Unfortunately... "DROID"
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Appreciate the advice. Its just something with the photo. All the welds are flush to .040 high and the outside of the bead is tied .020 past the edge of the bevel. Root is flush and wedding banded.

I weld in nuke plants for a living. Its a hard habit to break.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4 Beta


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

18T_BT said:


> Looking good Pat! :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question, I've read mixed reviews about methanol/ethanol and aluminum tanks. Are you at all worried about corrosiveness and are you considering anodizing the tank?


Yes. I will be running only water. I don't care for the ignition timing benefits of meth, but only the cooling properties. For the top end power I want to make, I can do it on 93. If I really want, there is enough pump and injector do to it on e85.

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## #1 Hater (Jan 15, 2009)

Sweet jesus...


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## Shamrock (Aug 7, 2004)

is the charge piping aluminum?

Also what did you weld your exhaust flange to? is that purging setup?


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

Those welds look awesome. 

Your not missing out on any benefits water has all the cooling and detonation control you'll ever need. Most knowledgeable water/meth users are just worried about running into hydro-lock.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

The block the flange is welded to is to help prevent the flange from warping when welded. It also seals up nicely for purging. 


I wish I could say I was farther along than I am. I lost the tranny in my daily, and finding another 16v 020 locally is impossible, so I had to do an 02j swap, which took some time to gather parts. That, and having to be at work 7-5 every day was kicking my ass. 

Regardless, here's where I am: 


I assembled the motor. I mounted the external wastegate to the manifold, and bolted it up. I still have to clock the cold-side cover so the outlet comes out above the axle 









2.0 oil pan, and 12an turbo drain. I want to swap the straight fitting with another 45. 









3/4" drop tube to clear the compressor cover. 









Feed fitting, with .060 banjo-bolt restrictor. The feed line still needs fire-wrapped, and I still have to build a heatshield for the manifold. 

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content










Alternator modified to fit in the power steering pump location: 









Starting on the supercharger snout support bracket 









A decent amount of belt wrap on the charger pulley for sure. 









I have to leave the country for a week, and when I come back I'll get back to it.


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## ncsumecheng (Nov 1, 2005)

Wait.... 

I heard you say you are doing w/m inj. I assume into the intake manifold? 

I hope it cools the air enough since the supercharger doesn't run through an intercooler.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

ncsumecheng said:


> Wait....
> 
> I heard you say you are doing w/m inj. I assume into the intake manifold?
> 
> I hope it cools the air enough since the supercharger doesn't run through an intercooler.


 He can do it before the mani, in the mani, wherever he wants.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Correct. I'll be spraying between the blower and throttle plate. The charger has a 3/4" ish hole for a pcv hose I will convert to my sprayer nozzle.

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## STOICH (Jun 21, 2010)

Well, this is interesting. :thumbup:


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## gt30fan (Feb 20, 2007)

looks good i have a similar set up... wondering what the dyno graph will look like with a different style supercharger..... 
how much boost are you planing on running??? this style of intake does not like allot of boost... too much flat surface+too thin of material... (dont ask me how i know that. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3TcWumfhnk 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ihzLDEm70


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That must be a massive charger if you have it present turbo....

Boost, we shall see. No set limit as of yet. The seams will have plenty of reinforcement and the top plate is 3/16 to help hold the pressure.

What did your graph look like?

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## gt30fan (Feb 20, 2007)

here you go, does not have the top end... we were tuning the charger pick up...


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Wow... I expected to see more bottom end.  

Very cool though


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## gt30fan (Feb 20, 2007)

that why i said that i want to see the different stile charger at work... this one is centrifugal, they work like a turbo, it needs to spool up.... 
in that graph it was at about 16-18 psi by like 3500 ...


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

gt30fan said:


> that why i said that i want to see the different stile charger at work... this one is centrifugal, they work like a turbo, it needs to spool up....
> in that graph it was at about 16-18 psi by like 3500 ...


 I was thinking the same thing


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That's exactly the problem. Centi chargers work in pro mod present turbo, but they're usually twice the size of the motor. 

Positive displacement chargers are where its at. I could, however, see using a tiny pulley with a centi charger on a sequential setup with a clutched pulley on the blower.


I would be tickled silly to see 200ftlbs at 2000 rpm.

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## gt30fan (Feb 20, 2007)

That's exactly what I'm working on, but 200lb by 2000 might be too much for our motors to handle, 
Im working on a clutched cog shaft.... My main problem is space.....


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I'll just have to keep up frequent checks of the rod bearings.

Have you considered a set up like mine, with the charger on the intake and running as the primary, rather than the secondary?

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## gt30fan (Feb 20, 2007)

yea i thought about it, i think there could be way too much restriction for the turbo to pump through the charger..... i tried to make my turbo suck through the charger, and its chocking right past the the chargers capability...... that why im interested to see yours, 

maybe a triple charged????:screwy::laugh:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

When compounding, with no bypass valves, you can no longer think like a single stage set up. Total system volume flow is dictated by the choke point of the smaller of either stage.

Primary = sees atmospheric (low pressure) stage
Secondary = compounding (high pressure) stage

If the primary stage chokes at 500 cfm and the secondary stage chokes at 1000cfm, you're only going to flow 500cfm total. 

Likewise, if the primary flows 1000, and the secondary flows 500, you'll also only flow 500.

What you gain is mass flow. The system can only flow the volume of the smallest stage, but can flow the mass of the primary stage.

Ex:
Pri 1000cfm 100lb/min 
Sec 500cfm 50lb/min
Total 500cfm 100lb/min

Pri 500cfm 50lb/min
Sec 1000cfm 100lb/min
Total 500cfm 50lb/min

The benefit is not mor volume, but the ability to run much higher pressure. Not counting for efficiency losses, 500cfm at 4bar is twice the total mass of air as 500cfm at 2 bar.

I bet this is the issue you ran in to with your set up, assuming its a non-bypass compound set up. You simply maxed out the primary stage.

If you think about it this way, it makes more sense. The secondary stage is 500cfm, 50lb/min at 2 bar. To reach your HP goal without spinning to the motor to the moon, you need 4 bar of pressure. So you use a primary stage. In order to reach 500cfm @ 50lb/min 4bar, you need to double the quantity of air molecules. To double the molecules coming out, you need to feed twice the molecules in, in this case 2 bars worth. To get that you cram 1000cfm through the inlet. Since the secondary can only consume 500cfm, you build up 2bars of pressure. The pressure ratios multiply, giving you a total consumed 1000cfm through the filter, and 500cfm 4 bar in to the motor.

All numbers estimated, not counting for efficiency losses, for example only. Bar values psiA, not psig. 

I don't mean to lecture. I just really like talking about this stuff.


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## gt30fan (Feb 20, 2007)

yea thats pretty much what i said, but in more technical and longer way... 

i have a by pass valve... 
how are you going to do it? 2 throttle bodies?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I'm not using any bypass valves. Both charger and turbo will function simultaneously. 

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## gt30fan (Feb 20, 2007)

what size turbo are you using???


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Hy35. 

Compressor inducer- 56mm
Compressor exducer- 76mm
Compressor trim- 54
Turbine inducer- 65mm
Turbine exducer- 58mm
Turbine trim- 80

If it spools too soon I have a couple hx's I can throw on.

I decided on true compound over sequential because I couldn't find a bypass valve that would work the way I wanted it to as well as leave the supercharger on the intake manifold. Giving up ic was not an option.

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Hy35.
> 
> If it spools too soon I have a couple hx's I can throw on.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


 At the same time as the HY.....right?:laugh:


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

Subscribed, twincharge ftw eace:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Cute. I still have a 78/128mm combine turbo kicking around here somewhere

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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I'm not using any bypass valves. Both charger and turbo will function simultaneously.


 :thumbup:


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

I did some analysis of this twin-charged setup (Holset HY35 turbo + Eaton M62 supercharger). As per my PM conversation with Pat @ Pitt Soundworks earlier this week, I will post results here. 

Below is a screenshot of the HY35 turbo at 2008CC displacement (83mm x 92.8mm): 










As you can see, the HY35 is capable of 57+ lbs. of air per minute. This translated into 570+ HP or about 495 WHP. The sweet spot for maximum power at 2.0L displacement is at P2/P1=2.78 or *26 psi and 7200 RPMs*. 

The surge line (farthest line to the left) ranges from 2500 to 3600 RPMs. Maximum efficiency occurs between 5000 and 6000 RPMs (center island). 

The lowest compressor speed line (lowest horizontal line at the bottom) is at P2/P1=1.4 or 6 psi. This means that the 76mm compressor wheel is outside its efficiency range below 6psi (more on that later). 

The HY35 most closely resembles the Garrett GTX3071R with both capable of about 57 lbs. of air per minute (see below): 










As you can see, the GTX3071R has a slighly better surge line of about 200 RPMs as compared to the Holset due to the smaller but more efficient 71mm compressor wheel. It also has a wider efficiency range below P2/P1=2.5 or about 22 psi. 

If Pat were to switch to the GTX3071R, I would recomment a target of P2/P1=3.05 or 30 psi at 6500 RPMs for maximum power at 2.0L displacement (see below): 










The Eaton M62 is designed for 2.5L to 4.0L passenger car and light truck engines: 

http://www.eaton.com/Eaton/Products...utomotiveAftermarket/Superchargers/PCT_221789 



Eaton said:


> *M62 Superchargers*
> The Eaton Supercharger Model 62 is designed for 2.5L to 4.0L passenger car and light truck engines, but may also be suitable for other engine sizes, depending on total system performance requirements.


 Below is the M62 performance map: 










As you can see, I highlighted the 58% efficiency line (red), which is the standard used by Garrett to indicate the lowest usable area of the map (choke line). Beyond this point, the supercharger is producing mostly hot air. 

At the farthest point on the choke line corresponds to about 705 m^3 per hour of air or about 32 lbs. of air per minute. This translates into 320 HP or about 278 WHP. If you were to run the Eaton M62 SC by itself, you can produce power levels similar to a GT28R turbo, but with no turbo-lag. 

Here is the M62 overlaid with speed lines for 2.0L of displacement: 










Maximum power is produced just under 7000 RPMs at 2.0L displacement. However, the M62 is capable of producing over 300 HP between 5200 and 7200 RPMs. 

Combining the Holset HY35 compressor map and the Easton M62 performance map, you get the following: 










Notice how the maximum efficency island on the M62 intersects the lowest speed line on the HY35. This means that M62 is operating most efficiently just when the HY35 is beginning to come into its efficiency range. 

Here is a closer look. I highlighted the 58% efficiency line on the M62 map in dark blue this time: 










Notice also how the efficiency islands of the M62 overlap the HY35 as you move diagonally up and to the right. At the M62's choke line (highlighted in dark blue), you are just below the HY35's maximum efficiency island in the center of the map. 

Conclusion: The Eaton M62 performance map and HY35 compressor map line-up very nicely. I think this is an excellent combination based on the way the maps line up.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Only problem is my Eaton is a third gen. Efficiency is a touch lower and overall cfm is lower, but still pretty close. Hopefully the compounding effect won't require too terribly low of a PR on the hy.

And I assume since its compounded that the hy should be modeled with 3 liter displacement (1.5pr on the m62), which should shift the rpm lines to the right, correct?

Also, some evo guys are squeezing 550whp out of the trusty hy, but that's at 35-40 psi

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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Only problem is my Eaton is a third gen. Efficiency is a touch lower and overall cfm is lower, but still pretty close. Hopefully the compounding effect won't require too terribly low of a PR on the hy.
> 
> *And I assume since its compounded that the hy should be modeled with 3 liter displacement (1.5pr on the m62), which should shift the rpm lines to the right, correct?
> *
> ...


 I'll check into that. 

EDIT: A compound setup would change the combined map. The combined map above is for a sequential setup with a bypass valve same as VW Twincharged TSI. 

For a compound setup, the supercharger is multiplying the output of the turbo. Below the efficiency range of the turbo, the supercharger supplies most if not all of the airflow. However, without a bypass valve, the supercharger has to suck air through the compressor housing of the turbo. This will lower the efficiency of the SC because the compressor housing of the turbo will act as a restriction. At the same time, the SC will increase the efficiency of the turbo (push surge line to the left) because the sucking action of the SC will cause the turbo to spool up quicker. 

Once the turbo comes into it's efficiency range, it will start to supply positive airflow to the SC and the supercharger will mulitply the turbo's output. The Eaton M62 is capable of a pressure ratio of P2/P1=2.1 before it chokes off below 58% efficiency. This means that it can basically double inlet pressure. This will limit the amount of boost you could run on the HY35 turbo to about half of your maximum boost target. For example, if you plan to run 44 lbs. of (total) boost, you would have to limit output of HY35 to pressure ratio of P2/P1=2.5 or about 22 lbs. of boost. This renders the rest of the compressor map above 22 psi unusable. 

Ideally, it would be nice to turn off the SC at some point and let the HY35 do its thing without the multiplying effect of the M62. However, this is not possible with the current setup. 

EDIT: The ideal boost target for this compound setup would be 29 to 44 psi (total) due to the fact that the HY35 is most happy at a pressure ratio of P2/P1=2.0 to 2.5 (center efficiency island). Anything below that range would not be using the HY35 to it full capacity. You could certainly push the HY35 to P2/P1=4.0 or about 44 psi but the total boost would be double that due to M62 muliplying effect. Another point not mentioned here is the parasitic loss to drive the SC. This could rob some low-end torque. 

EDIT: I will try to post a combined map of the HY35 and M62 for a compound setup.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Almost done. I still have to clock the compressor cover, make one weld on the passenger side IC piping, raise the intercooler 1/2", and make the CTS coolant pipe (had to use passat CTS flange, to clear the power steering pump bracket). All the vacuum system stuff has been ordered. I'm expecting to be 100% done with the bay and ready for first-fire on tuesday or wednesday, depending on when parts come in.










super charger support brackets


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

So third gear burners on Thursday then?:laugh:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

What's the record for the lowest rpm to shear teeth off the 02m second gear? Or pop the diff. I have a feeling one of those will happen right away.


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)




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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Only problem is my Eaton is a third gen. Efficiency is a touch lower and overall cfm is lower, but still pretty close. Hopefully the compounding effect won't require too terribly low of a PR on the hy.
> 
> *And I assume since its compounded that the hy should be modeled with 3 liter displacement (1.5pr on the m62), which should shift the rpm lines to the right, correct?*
> Also, some evo guys are squeezing 550whp out of the trusty hy, but that's at 35-40 psi
> ...


Yes. At a pressure ratio of 1.5 for the M62, a compounded setup will act as a three liter engine. RPM lines will shift to the right.

Below I have overlaid the HY35 with 3013 CCs displacement (2008 x 1.50):










Notice that I drew a line at P2/P1=2.5 or 22 psi. Compounded by the H62 will give you 33 psi at that pressure ratio (22 x 1.5). This setup is capable of 55.75 lbs. of air per minute or 558 HP at 5200 RPMs. Above that point you will be outside of the HY35's efficiency range and following along the choke line (assuming you don't have any chemical intercooling). At 6000 RPMs, you will produce 47.8 lbs. of air per minute or 478 HP.

Since the H62 will only be running at P2/P1=1.5 or about 7.35 psi, you will only be getting 7.35 psi of boost on 2008 CC until the HY35 starts to spoolup. And remember that the H62 not only has parasitic loss (supercharger), but has to suck through turbo compressor housing.

In comparison, I get over 7 psi as early as 1600 RPMs on my GTX2867R + 2.1L and it climbs from there.

You could alway increase pressure ratio of M62 to 1 BAR (14.5 psi). That would give you an advantage over my setup from idle to 2800 RPMs. However, you would be pushing the M62 close to its choke point. Moreover, you would limit the amount of boost you could run on the HY35. In the example above (33 psi) you would have to limit HY35 to P2/P1=2.125 or about 16.5 psi. The HY35 is not good at producing low boost. It likes high boost. In that scenario you would limit your top end to 517 HP at 5700 RPMs.

I think a more effective setup would be to run a turbo more closely suited to 3.0L of displacement like the GT40R. Below I have overlaid the GT40R with 3013 CCs displacement.










As you can see, the GT40R is capable of 71.8 lbs. of air per minute or 720 HP at 6700 RPMs on 3.0L displacement.

Conclusion: To get the most out of your compounded setup, you have to get a bigger turbo. The GT40R suites this setup very nicely.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Some other points to consider:
The m62 was designed to produce 7psi on a 3.8l motor. As a positive displacement pump, it should produce more pressure on the 2L block than on the 3.8l. When compounding with a roots based charger, you can't multiply pressure ratios like a normal set-up. The roots chargers are merely an air pump - they have no internal pressure generation abilities. Also, the rear bearings on the eaton chargers fail very quickly past 9psi. I also have chemical intercooling before the super charger. 

What I like about this setup is the ability to change configurations easily. If the HY is too small, then it's a sinch to switch over to a HX35 or HX40. The intake, downpipe, and manifold setup are 100% interchangeable between anything in the 35/40 series. And should the charger not provide the benefits I'm looking for, I can just throw a normal style intake manifold on and rock it as a big single. 

We'll have to see how it responds when it's done. I don't believe the estimates tell the whole story.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

^^^:thumbup:

EDIT: I like the HX40 Pro also on this setup if you want to stick wilh Holset.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Something interesting I just found out, that I haven't noticed documented anywhere....

edit: looks like the 65/51 is an hy and the 65/58 is a he341. Cool beans.


Both are Hy35 turbines, and both share the same compressor.

78 trim wheel

















62 trim wheel

















The smaller trim, I believe, is from a newer turbo. I have two 78's and one 62. The 62 also has a tapered cone turbine seal plate, as opposed to square edged turbine seal plate.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Passenger side IC piping: done









Drivers side IC piping: done









Modified b5 coolant hardpipe: done









A couple of clearance shots

















starting to fill out nicely


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Is that throttle body welded on there?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

No. A hemi flange is welded to the charger inlet, and the TB is bolted to that.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Would be a great oppurtunity to use Maestro on this car. One big fat MAF and your good to go, or lets see Gonzo show his tuning skills


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

The car will be going to Taylor at Do Tuning after I break the clutch in.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

That whole setup just looks so good, very logical and clean, any chance of making that intake manifold a production part?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

haha no. I might consider one-offs if someone brings me a vehicle to work on, but to jig up a 3800 kit isn't going to happen. The flange for the charger cost way more than I'd like to admit. All in all, this manifold ran me around $800 to make. If I did it again, I would use a 5th gen charger out of a cobalt SS, instead of the third gen 3800 charger, which is more efficient and can run higher boost levels. It just so happened the 3800 charger basically fell in to my lap.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Tomorrow I have to weld the wastegate dump tube to the downpipe, and that's 100% done. After that, all I'm waiting on is the vacuum manifold from vibrant and we're ready to start. Hopefully that'll be in tomorrow.

I'm really pushing to make it to dyno day on Sunday.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Tomorrow I have to weld the wastegate dump tube to the downpipe, and that's 100% done. After that, all I'm waiting on is the vacuum manifold from vibrant and we're ready to start. Hopefully that'll be in tomorrow.
> 
> I'm really pushing to make it to dyno day on Sunday.


Looking forward to seeing results. Are you using stock pulley on the SC?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Yes. It conveniently works out to a 2:1 ratio, so with a 7k redline, the charger will be at its maximum allowable RPM (according to eaton).

I also found out a buddy of mine's neighbor is a high up (he said CEO but I don't believe that) of Eaton's parent company, and has a few R1320s, R1900s and R2300s kicking around his garage. I might see if I can snag one.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Yes. It conveniently works out to a 2:1 ratio, so with a 7k redline, *the charger will be at its maximum allowable RPM *(according to eaton).
> 
> I also found out a buddy of mine's neighbor is a high up (he said CEO but I don't believe that) of Eaton's parent company, and has a few R1320s, R1900s and R2300s kicking around his garage. I might see if I can snag one.


What boost do you plan on running for your first dyno? You have the potential to run very high boost on your setup. Also, I missed the compression ratio.

EDIT: The R1320 is capable of 63 lbs. of air per minutes or 630 HP by itself.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Compression is 9:1. I won't be able to run E yet as the tuner will need to get his hands on the car. Until then, I will use a Uni 830 ecu that has served me VERY well and stick with 93 and water injection. The wastegate is set at 19psi spring pressure. Once I get the motor and clutch broken in, I will log timing pulls and AFR and keep upping pressure until I hit the limit of the 830 software. I'll hit the dyno like that. 

I also have to get the meth spray rate dialed in, and gear-based-boost at least roughly set-up in the AVCR.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> *Compression is 9:1*. I won't be able to run E yet as the tuner will need to get his hands on the car. Until then, I will use a Uni 830 ecu that has served me VERY well and stick with 93 and water injection. The wastegate is set at 19psi spring pressure. Once I get the motor and clutch broken in, I will log timing pulls and AFR and keep upping pressure until I hit the limit of the 830 software. I'll hit the dyno like that.
> 
> I also have to get the meth spray rate dialed in, and gear-based-boost at least roughly set-up in the AVCR.


:thumbup:


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

Anxious to see some video


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Crazy setup +1 on that video we all wanna see :laugh:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Had a little scare. The belt showed up this afternoon, but I wasn't sure if it would fit. I measured the belt travel path at 55.5inches, plus tensioner travel, 56". The only belt I could get that isn't custom is a Dayco 6070550. I knew I'd have to cut one rib off. And I thought, ok, .5" isn't much, it'll stretch. NOPE. The belt is too short... ****.

SO I modified the alt bracket a touch, and now the belt fits perfectly. Tension is set by adjusting the alternator, similar to the 16v v-belt set-ups. No spring tensioner is used anymore, at least, not until I can get a custom belt made. This will work for now, though.













Vacuum block won't be here until the 18th. Thankfully a buddy was able to locate one and will have it dropped off this evening. Looks like first fire is going to be tomorrow for sure.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

This is good progress....interested to see the final outcome. :beer::thumbup:


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Maybe use a turnbuckle to dial in belt tension for now, until the custom piece is made?


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## 1.8t67 (Dec 7, 2008)

the alt will provide enough tension on the belt to get everything broke in. 

looking good on the build.


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## zoidmk5 (Sep 17, 2006)

In to see the startup video's :thumbup:


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

zoidmk5 said:


> In to see the ripper video's :thumbup:


:laugh:


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

nice work man


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

video, video opcorn:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Ok. So having an issue that I can't figure out. I'm stumped.

It's the same clutch/flywheel/starter/tranny combo that I've used together before. The shim between the tranny and block is installed. New alignment dowls installed in the block. Clutch alignment tool used. Motor turns over by hand. If tranny is in gear, the wheels spin when turning the crank manually.

When trying to start, the starter engages, grinds, but doesn't mesh with the flywheel. I tried a new starter, and would engage the flywheel about 1 out of every 15 times. Bench testing the starter shows it popping out and starting fine. When it does catch, it will spin the flywheel for about 2-3 seconds, then stop and go back to grinding.

Distance between the ring gear face and starter mount face is 2.5". Distance between the resting starter drive head and mounting face is 2.125.

I blued the drive gear and put it together. I'm getting contact on the face of the ring gear, but the teeth are not sinking in.

I'm stumped. Any ideas?


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Almost sounds like the wrong flywheel/number of teeth. Sounds like its engaging but grinding once it needs to mesh.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah I don't know. This clutch, flyhweel, starter, transmission, and shim plate all ran together lastyear without a hitch.

I found that if I turn the crankshaft manually about 30 degrees, the starter will turn the motor over and the engine will start no problem. But if you shut it off, you have to spin it again 30 degrees before the starter will kick in again.

I leave town for two week on Tuesday. Maybe I'll get a chance to **** with the car when I come back. I'm extremely disappointed.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Don't be, you built a twin-charged 1.8T with a lot of one-off parts and got it basically going, I've been talking about a new turbo for years, two weeks is nothing :thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Oh that's nothing. What's disappointing is putting in the hard work, 20 some hours days, to try and get this thing running, and it failing because of something stupid. Something that simply shouldn't be an issue. If it failed because I built something wrong, so be it. If it fails because a screw fell in the motor, so be it. But because the damn starter isn't meshing, come on.

And what's killing me is I'm completely out of ideas. The only thing I can think of is to completely replace the clutch and flywheel, which right now I don't have the cash for. Maybe when I get back, I'll see if one of the alignment shims didn't slip or something. But I'll probably be booked solid with work for the next three months.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Push start it:laugh:

Is the trans fully seated against the block?

I know this isnt your first rodeo, but anyone can overlook the simplest things.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Nope. Even if it could, you wouldn't be able to bolt the pressure plate up.

and I really don't want to do a pop-start leak test LOL


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Forgot the bad news too. One of the times it fired up, I noticed a leak coming out of the oil filter area. that's great because it's really cramped between the fans and under the supercharger. I thought it was the sandwich plate, so I switched it, only to notice it was the feed line leaking. I pulled it, replaced the banjo bolt, and proceeded to strip the threads out of the oil feed housing. So when I tear it all apart, I have to replace that as well. Thankfully I have some spares...

But on the bright side, I couldn't be more happy with the MR2 EHPS swap. The wheel feels great and the pump is not awfully loud. However, whenever I connect the VSS (pulling signal from the sensor on the tranny), the pump won't kick on. Disconnected, it's no problem. I'm trying to locate some original harness plugs, as the spade connections are not ideal.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

update?


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## 3rd Time Out (Aug 22, 2013)

Wow factor at 11. That is unreal. Very nice work.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> And what's killing me is I'm completely out of ideas. The only thing I can think of is to completely replace the clutch and flywheel, which right now I don't have the cash for. Maybe when I get back, I'll see if one of the alignment shims didn't slip or something. But I'll probably be booked solid with work for the next three months.


This maybe a long shot but I recently ran into a similar snag where the starter motor would engage but would not turn the flywheel completely. After conversing with a few shops and was told a few times that it was the flywheel/PP/clutch combo it ended up being the actual Starter motor.

Volkswagen lists 3 different part #'s for 02M/02Q starter motors as there are 3 different 4-CYL FWD bellhousings.

Look @ the aluminum casting portion of the starter that bolts onto the bell housing. I had all 3 starter motors lined up and the difference is less than 5mm. 
Might be worth a shot?

edit: we built a GLI 02M w/a Wavetrac LSD and put it into a 337 GTI so different gearbox than what came with the 337 but using the 337 starter motor. Ended up needing the GLI starter motor as well.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Its certainly possible. My starter is a Tyco replacement. I don't recall seeing any Bosch p/n on the body but I will check. When the parts store did a cross reference, it pulled up as an 02a p/n. There weren't any 02m p/ns in stock though. It a quattro tranny, though. Not a fwd. And its a quattro flywheel and quattro clutch kit. 


Also something I thought of was the last time this combination was together, I'm pretty sure there was only one alignment dowel installed, if that. The play in the bolt holes could be enough to throw it off.

Dave, I'm out of town. 2 weeks until I can try again. 

Issam, did you get my email?

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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Its certainly possible. My starter is a Tyco replacement. I don't recall seeing any Bosch p/n on the body but I will check. When the parts store did a cross reference, it pulled up as an 02a p/n. There weren't any 02m p/ns in stock though. It a quattro tranny, though. Not a fwd. And its a quattro flywheel and quattro clutch kit.
> 
> 
> Also something I thought of was the last time this combination was together, I'm pretty sure there was only one alignment dowel installed, if that. The play in the bolt holes could be enough to throw it off.
> ...


Same thing for Quattro. 3 different part #'s....and we chased this down for a good 2 days. DQ350 / DQ500 (DSG 6 & 7 -Speed) both use 02Q part #'s for the starter so that rules them out as well.The bolt holes are the same across all but the difference lies in how far the starter protrudes into the bell housing.

Replied to email :thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I didn't get it. Did you send it to my gmail address?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Got the starting issue fixed. Wrong bolts on the pressure plate (5mm too long) were causing the PP to bind up on the inside ribbing of the tranny, as well as biting in to the ring gear surface. That, combined with a bad alignment dowel, caused all the issues. It's still missing about one out of every 10 starts, but I can live with that until I get a different clutch/flywheel/starter and swap the turbo out for an hx35/40 over winter. 

Videos will be up as soon as my friend uploads them.

With the proper pp bolts, before replacing the dowell and "shimmying" the tranny alignment. Much better than the first run....





First official start-up, with two broken vac lines, no adapted throttle body, and (I think) a bad AIT. And I don't know if it likes the map being behind the throttle plate or not. I just wanted to see if it would catch. I'll sort all that stuff out tomorrow.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Good stuff! Button up the front end and lets see some real vids


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

18T_BT said:


> Good stuff! Button up the front end and lets see some real vids


What he said.:thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Out to eat. Have to put the wheels on, check for codes, and fire her up

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## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

:beer::beer::screwy::beer::beer:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

So the car WAS working fine until another dick friend got in it. Started the starter grind again. Put the car on the ground, and found it won't go in gear when the engine is running, and moves forward on its own when started in first and the clutch pushed in. So now my guess is either the flywheel or tranny got damaged in storage. I have another 02m here I may try tomorrow. But I don't really feel like pulling the engine again, and it has a broken first/second selector fork. It's possible I have the clutch disk on backwards, but the small hub-side is facing the flywheel, and the large hub is facing the pressure plate. That's how I remember the orientation being, anyway.

The good news, I guess, is that when you do blip the throttle, the car lurches forward like it wants to fly. Only electrical issue is an iat code saying voltage too high. I'll swap the sensor out tomorrow and it'll be no big thing.

edit:
Now that I think about it, I'm sure the clutch disk is on backwards. I haven't done any DMF clutch jobs in a quite a while, and I installed it with the single mass hub facing out. I'll have that corrected tomorrow as well. I don't know if that would affect the starter engagement or not, but we will see.


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## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I'll have that corrected tomorrow as well. I don't know if that would affect the starter engagement or not, but we will see.


It shouldn't since the flywheel is fixed. Post the part # or at least a photo of the starter motor when you pull it out. I will grab a photo of the starter motors on Monday for you.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Cars already on the ground warming up... I'll check it later.

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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Im curious to know how its going to run given that not onething on that tune is made for the airflow characteristics that engine is going to have.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

First drive was very interesting. The car just wants to take off. Part throttle driveability sucks. Anything over 0% throttle and the car bucks. I'll run another adaptation as I don't think the last one finished before the laptop battery drained. The belt tension is way too low. Anything over 3k and it slips. None of the belt companies are willing to make a custom belt, so I'll be working on a new tensioner tonight. Maybe I can figure out a way to run an idler pulley as well.....

As soon as you get on it, I'm at .56 bar boost. Breaking the motor in, I took it to 1.2bar before I remembered I was still trying to break it in. The FX400 feels a lot better than the last time I drove it. I guess driving a cable actuated 228mm vr clutch on my 1.8 scirocco has paid off.

Also, I'm idiling at 200mm hg vacuum. That's pretty low, which I'm attributing to the cams. They're probably partially spun on the cogs. I'll get a new set eventually....

Things to do tonight:
put in new IAT
replace front sensor
throw away ****ty nology "loanger" wires and replace with custom wires
compression test
oil change
pressure test
alt tensioner/idler
wire the cutout and wideband gauges

Things to do next week:
REAL mr2 power steering pump harness (plugs falling out)
Replace fan control module bo
Replace outside temp sensor
New injectors? (siemens 830cc's, yech)
New air filter (presently a loaner)
replace crappy temporary make-shift vacuum block with a better one, so I can ditch all the crappy T's


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> Im curious to know how its going to run given that not onething on that tune is made for the airflow characteristics that engine is going to have.


Supposedly the uni 830 can-tune I have is programmed for cams, 2L, ls2 coils, mafless, and some other stuff..


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

after a t-body adapt, new plugs, new wires, it runs a ton better. I can't seem to find my spare primary 02, and I don't have another IAT, so I'll get to those soon. It's running PIG rich - the wideband doesn't even register a reading. Idle vac is still 8in hg. Cruising vac is better. I'm thinking it's an ignition issue. Currently idling around 4* btdc. I'm at 18psi (spring pressure) before 3k on a stock vr6 exhaust with the cutout closed. As soon as you hit the throttle, you're at 7-8psi.

Here's the first post-break in drive.

Speaker warning - might as well mute it.... My phone apparently can't record audio worth a damn. GoPro videos tomorrow.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

New tensioner:









No more belt slipping. I now make 1-bar boost before 2k rpm. It's quite possible I'll get that 200ftlbs at 2k . No meth, still bad sensors, still running rich, and still need to dial in the boost controller. I think I saw 2bar total boost, but I need a passenger to ride with me to watch gauges while I drive.

Videos real soon, I promise.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Went out for a short cruise. In the first video, the fuel pump fuse broke. It was a 10 amp fuse for testing, and I forgot to swap it out to a 20a.


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## JamesS (Nov 18, 2008)

Awesome :thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Cars for sale. Pm me if interested

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Cars for sale. Pm me if interested
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk now Free


What happened?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Nothing happened. I had my fun building the car - that's all I really set out to do. I wanted to see how she would act and it performed to my expectations. Plus my house needs new windows and ac and I have a few credit cards that could use paying off. And I have other projects I'm working on.

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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Nothing happened. I had my fun building the car - that's all I really set out to do. I wanted to see how she would act and it performed to my expectations. Plus my house needs new windows and ac and I have a few credit cards that could use paying off. And I have other projects I'm working on.
> 
> Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk now Free


Gotcha. Someone will get a cool car.:thumbup:


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

Damn I wish I had some cash, I'd love to throw that engine in my TT, twin-charged + AWD = superwin


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I have a TT rear end sitting here for the car. Complete minus prop shaft and floor pan. If I end up keeping it, its going in next summer.

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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

*FV-QR*

what are you using for logging, please dont say vag-com


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Vag com to check coolant temp, fuel correction, and the like. Standalone wideband to monitor o2 and ebc for boost gauge. Haven't sent the car to the tuner yet and only put about 10 miles on it before I had to leave town again.

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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

To do:

Turbo:
tap 2x 1/8 npt to discharge
rebuild chra

intake manifold:
tap 1/8npt to runners for direct port *done*
tap 1/8npt to throttle flange on core support side *done*
add mount for longi 1/8t coolant pipe
add mount for direct-port manifold (SC extra bung?)

radiator:
weld 1.25 bung to bottom d/s
weld 1.25 bung to top p/s for longi pipe
cap d/s coolant port

coolant hardpipe:
move bleed nipple to top p/s
lengthen as necessary to clear supercharger

washer fluid tank:
clearance for oem coolant overflow *done*
add mount to motor mount

wg solenoid:
move to firewall by compressor cover

cold ic pipe: *done*
add maf sensor flange for w/m *n/a*
add map sensor flange for w/m *done*
spin 1/8t bung 180* *done*

fuel pump:
add check valve to pump
add fpr gauge to line 

supercharger:
inspect/lube rear bearings
drill/tap/spotface new fill port on (bottom) of rotor snout
drill/tap w/m port on throttle flange *done*

intercooler:
add 1/8" npt bung to IC discharge *done*
cut p/s end tank off, add turning vane, reweld *done*

intake tube:
add 5" filter inlet *done*
add maf flange *done*
add wg reroute
add pcv tap

replace:
turbo drain an hose
IAT sensor
Primary 02 sensor

lengthen coil harness plugs out to valve cover


build new 02 harness: *done*
add:
-boost-a-pump plug
-proper power steering plugs (speed sensor in harness from cluster to ecu)
-extra t6/10 plug for w/m solenoid activation
-maf plug (EXCEPT maf to ECU)
-extra black fuse panel for meth/boost-a-pump
move 3-bar map sensor plug to new 02 harness for w/m
remove:
-all current fuel pump wiring
-all current power steering wiring
-all current w/m wiring
-dsm relay box (move to rear of car for meth pumps)


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## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

:beer::beer::beer:

Glad youre keeping it, and I look forward to the evolution of this build.


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

Anyone remember the Jackson racing twin charged momo integra?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

http://www.highaltitudeimports.com/showthread.php/31586-Dual-Sequential-Chargers?pp=15

Also

http://www.superstreetonline.com/fe...ra_integra_type_r_twin_turbocharged_show_car/

The second link won't open on my phone. I'm not sure if its a good read or not.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

I wonder what some proper fueling and a good tune could do to that engine today! 325 seems pretty darn weak, considering that turbo can put down over 400 today alone. Granted the blower is basically to just help the engine rev faster to spool the turbo not actually make power.


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

Slimjimmn said:


> I wonder what some proper fueling and a good tune could do to that engine today! 325 seems pretty darn weak, considering that turbo can put down over 400 today alone. Granted the blower is basically to just help the engine rev faster to spool the turbo not actually make power.


That's not entirely true, it depends on how it's plumbed. The easiest plumbing would have the turbo feeding the intake of the supercharger. In which case the supercharger acts as a static multiplier of the compression. This would in a sense mimic a compound turbo setup. 

I'd be quite curious of just how this is plumbed... "Twin charged" implies that there are two compression "pumps" simultaneously pushing air into the engine. Then there's sequential, which would make a lot of sense in this case. Another method would be compound turbo charging, this is what I listed above, where the compressed air from one charger feeds the intake and is compressed a second time. 

However, assuming that they're simply pushing compressed air in at the same time, the supercharger (especially as a roots type charger) will most definitely add power across the rev range, if there's one type of charging that comes closest to the feel of "increased displacement" it's a screw type charger, yes there will be additional exhaust flow, but that is primarily a by product of pushing more air in. Using a turbo or supercharger to spool a turbo simply would not work as well as the exhaust from the engine. While air is heated after being compressed, the heat created from the combustion will be far greater than that of compression, and would be grossly inefficient compared to pushing that same compressed air directly into the engine.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I can't wait to finish this


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## Budsdubbin (Jul 14, 2008)

NO doubt this is a really cool project. Respect for going for something "different" and your welding abilities. You should have a nice torque curve throughout the power band at least down low but I feel the screw type charger will prove to be a restriction for holding it to redline. Either way if you get the setup dialed in and this thing roasting some gears, I think that in itself is an accomplishment regardless of your dyno sheet. :beer:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

It's a roots charger, not a screw. But I agree. We shall see. The HX is efficient to well over 30psi (pre supercharger), so there's plenty of headroom to ram it through.


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> It's a roots charger, not a screw. But I agree. We shall see. The HX is efficient to well over 30psi (pre supercharger), so there's plenty of headroom to ram it through.


So the turbo feeds compressed air to the sc intake? Nice!


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah, that's how my car is set up.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk


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## planbmatt1 (Mar 26, 2013)

Sub :beer:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I flew in today. Got to the shop at 2. Took a while to de-ice the cars, get the DD unstuck from the grass, but I did get started eventually. I figured this thread has been seriously lacking pictures, so I'm going to take a bunch for this round of updates.


The filter I was using was borrowed off a buddy of mine. For the sake of keeping everything over-the-top (and because I have the parts here left over from something else), I give you a 5" filter on a 1.8t. Once I relocate the catch can, I'll re-add pcv. Once I mount the new turbo, I'll add the support bracket.


















Modification of the w/m tank. I want to add the OE ball back in, and after talking to Scott at USRT, the meth is getting a total overhaul. This tank will be reverted strictly to winshield washer fluid. I was going to wrap the tank around the coolant orb, but since the orb isn't centered to the tank, I decided just to square the end. It'll be fine. I'll finish it tomorrow.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Harness work. 1/4 done Still took half the day. Plugs haven't come in yet from mcmaster, and I still need to add w/m solenoid wires and hobbs switch wires, but the 02 harness will completely integrate power steering, fuel pump and kenne bell boostapump, and two w/m systems. I added the maf back in, and the relay housing houses the "extras" relays. 

original 02 harness










temporary get-it-done "extra" harness










new harness, getting there










Yes, I'm working on my floor. No, I'm not wearing pants while wiring.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Checked a few more things off the list.

Cold side IC pipe, replaced the vertical section of pipe, added a map bung for the w/m to reference from, and (not shown) added a 1/8tnpt at the IC silicone for a w/m nozzle.

















Capped off the washer fluid tank. It's been snowing all day or else I would have the mounting bracket done. too


























Modified the intercooler. I added a turning vane to get some more efficiency out of the core. It helps by deflecting air to the top half of the core, as opposed to flowing just though the lower section.


























I also added a bar to help straighten out the air-dam. Welding it in warped it pretty good. You can see in some of the older pictures what I'm talking about. (the before shot I took has disappeared off my phone). But it's much much better now.









Tomorrow, I'll pull the supercharger and make some modifications to the plenum. Maybe I can get the radiator done as well.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

The list is getting smaller, but it won't stop snowing and the car is curently out side and stuck, so I can't move it to do any wiring/solenoid mounting until the next thaw. Regardless, I should have the turbo chra picked up from the machine shop, and have that rebuilt tomorrow. Everything will be going to powdercoat once the last of the welding is done.

Turbo:
tap 2x 1/8 npt to discharge *done*
rebuild chra *chra unusable, needs replaced*

intake manifold:
tap 1/8npt to runners for direct port *done*
tap 1/8npt to throttle flange on core support side *done*
add mount for longi 1/8t coolant pipe *n/a*
add mount for direct-port manifold (SC extra bung?) *n/a*

radiator:
weld 1.25 bung to bottom d/s
weld 1.25 bung to top p/s for longi pipe
cap d/s coolant port

coolant hardpipe: *n/a. need new plan of attack*
move bleed nipple to top p/s
lengthen as necessary to clear supercharger

washer fluid tank:
clearance for oem coolant overflow *done*
add mount to motor mount *done*

wg solenoid:
move to firewall by compressor cover

fuel pump:
add check valve to pump *done*
add fpr gauge to line *done*

supercharger:
inspect/lube rear bearings *done*
drill/tap/spotface new fill port on (bottom) of rotor snout *done*
drill/tap w/m port on throttle flange *done*

intake tube:
add 5" filter inlet *done*
add maf flange *done*
add wg reroute *done*
add pcv tap *done*

replace:
turbo drain an hose
IAT sensor *done*
Primary 02 sensor

lengthen coil harness plugs out to valve cover


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

wm direct port









shot of the supercharger inlet porting, and w/m tap on throttle flange, that I forgot to get when I put it all together.


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## Marcus_Aurelius (Mar 1, 2012)

Awesome job! :thumbup::thumbup:

Suggestion: weld the direct port nozzle holders as angled as you can. I'm curious, what size nozzles are you going for in your direct port?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Scott and I had a long talk on this. The w/m will be divided in to two separate systems. One system will be maf based, just for the supercharger and will run 25cc direct port, plus 375 (I think, it's in the pms) on the tb flange. It'll get dialed in with no spring in the wastegate. The second system is map based, referenceing before the supercharger, 125cc pre-turbo, 225cc post-turbo, and 375cc post intercooler.

I haven't seen the nozzle holders yet. I just figured they used 1/8npt bosses like the rest of the nozzles. I would have tapped the flange, but the adr lower manifold only has about 1/8" of flat before it tapers back.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

It's far too cold to be pulling a radiator in the snow right now. It's been about 20 degrees and windy all day. Maybe tomorrow. 

I did take this time to do some necessary porting of the superchargers discharge port. I just cleaned up the casting marks when I put it together, but since I have some time, I took care of it properly. I didn't enlarge the port, because messing with rotor timing drops efficiency, as opposed to raising it. I did taper the outlet, extend the ports through the bolt bosses, and softened all the radius's.

The "before" pic. I remembered to take it right after I started cutting the bolt bosses.










after:

















If I pick up 5% efficiency, and 2% flow, that's better than it was for a 20 year old heaton.

And tomorrow I'll pick up and rebuild the turbo :thumbup:


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## jettred3 (Aug 5, 2005)

:beer::beer:

Excited to see how the preturbo meth injection works out for you.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

So I added the DV recirc tube, mounting tab, and pcv. I took a note from the exhaust slashcut method, and figured it if works in the exhaust, it has to work in the intake as well. If it doesn't benefit any, no harm no foul. At least it'll keep pcv away from the maf.



















Decided to ditch the supercharger afterall for a more conventional intake manifold. I took a hint from WRX and WRC manifolds, and figured lets try the super-long runner and tiny plenum. I forget the numbers I came up with, but with runners are 23" iirc, giving a 2nd harmonic around 5000 rpm, 3rd order around 3500 rpm, and 4th order around 2000 rpm, IIRC.






















jk... that's for something else...... I did add two more 10an bungs to the plenum for pcv and a new vac system. They come super close to the hood, but still (surprisingly) clear.










Everythings ready to go to powdercoating tomorrow except the pcv catch can and vacuum system manifold, which I can't make until I get everything back in the car. And the coolant pipe, which I want to redo, but don't want to touch until it's not 10 degrees and 6" of snow or until I can get the car unstuck from the mud and back in the shop.


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## warranty225cpe (Dec 3, 2008)

Lol, that was funny. The look on my face was like.. :what: Hes getting rid of the charger.. ? So glad that was a joke.


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## ModsTTand (Jul 8, 2009)

warranty225cpe said:


> Lol, that was funny. The look on my face was like.. :what: Hes getting rid of the charger.. ? So glad that was a joke.


@warrant : felt the same then i thought to myself : is he going centrifugal to ditch the root charging!? with Pit artistic fabrication i see it happen tho 

Pit ur project is a sight for sore eyes, Props and keep up the great work :beer:


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Need Plate to weld onto my 4.0 I6 Jeep Manifold for Eaton M90  Seriously though... I need one.

I know it's not 1.8T related, but a very mildly boosted 4.0 Cherokee will dominate 90% of the 1.8's out there. Only problem is the low gearing gets up real quick and runs out of steam. Less weight, RWD / 4WD, ~300Hp ~425lbft with 7psi = FUN! 

Seriously, if you're interested I'll send you a Jeep intake manifold to set up for a M90.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Is it a YJ? I want to do a body swap with a YJ frame and motor, with my scirocco body, lifted sky high on swampers. I can't find a complete YJ roller, though, without buying the whole wranger. 

I'd certainly be interested. But pulley alignment might be an issue without having the motor to work off of.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Is it a YJ? I want to do a body swap with a YJ frame and motor, with my scirocco body, lifted sky high on swampers. I can't find a complete YJ roller, though, without buying the whole wranger.
> 
> I'd certainly be interested. But pulley alignment might be an issue without having the motor to work off of.


It's an XJ 1996 4.0 

Yeah it certainly would be an issue without the motor there... If I just had the plate to mount it on the plenum like you used I could do it myself on one of the newer 4.0 manifolds.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

If you really want a plate cut, I can hook you up with the guy who cut mine. It's not cheap, however. To have this one plasma cut and machined was around $200. And if you have a decent vertical bandsaw, you could cut it yourself. I farmed it out because I travel for work and didn't feel like making it hah.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> If you really want a plate cut, I can hook you up with the guy who cut mine. It's not cheap, however. To have this one plasma cut and machined was around $200. And if you have a decent vertical bandsaw, you could cut it yourself. I farmed it out because I travel for work and didn't feel like making it hah.


I do have a good bandsaw... but it's my stepfathers, and it's his wood shop. $200 isn't much when the blower was free. Call it balancing cost.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Got parts back from powdercoating. Only a few days I'm in town to work on the car, and I forgot to order necessary parts:
blower gasket
block breather 10an fitting

The car WILL be at waterfest this year. I have three weeks vacation scheduled before wf2014 to do anything the car needs to have done to bring it there.


























This evening, I'll pull the core support, paint the fmic support bar, and weld 1.25 pushbarb fittings to the rad. Tomorrow I'll get the SC mounted and see what I can do with the coolant hardpipe.


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## T-Boy (Jul 16, 2003)

Sick :thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Yesterdays progress was mostly unseen stuff. The turbo drain line was second hand 12an hose and leaked a little, so I replaced the hose. I pulled the oil pan to install the OEM windage tray/baffle, which I misplaced last summer. Turbo is fully installed, but I forgot to change the primary 02, so I still have to do that. And I enlargened the wire hole above the gas pedal, grommeted it, installed a mechanical boost gauge (in psi, not bar) and moved the afr gauge to the a-pillar with 42dd pods. I had to cut the plug off the cutout's motor harness, but I have to shorten the lead still, anyway. Lots and lots of little things to do still... and a few big things.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Modified the radiator from same-side in/out to crossflow. This will put the outlet on the passenger side of the car, cleaning up the area above the throttle body, and giving me more room for a vacuum manifold and where I have to relocate the catch can to. It's an extremely tight fit and took me considerably longer to complete than I would like to admit. I will be making a coolant crossover pipe to run over the intake manifold, similar to the longitudinal 1.8t's.


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## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

Hey Pat, who did your powder coating and if you dont mind me asking how much?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

There's a company in Pittsburgh called Dylans Coatings. It was $750 for the Jetta parts, a t6 turbine cover, spindles, and some other small bits.


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## Serafeim (Feb 9, 2014)

Amazing work Pat! I wish I could weld like that. Mine looks like minature mountains! lol oh yeah... The car is beautiful too! lol


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

*FV-QR*

wow


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)




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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

So glad that I came into the 1.8T forum today. :thumbup:


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Not sure I care for the red valve cover, but whatever. Parts should be in tomorrow or Thursday for the new catch can and vacuum manifold. I was changing the o2 sensor and also realized I never took a shot of the cutout.


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## 3rd Time Out (Aug 22, 2013)

Wow, it's really coming together. Nice work, I mean VERY nice. On a side note, I was watching your test ride videos, when I stumbled across the video of your fire. I notice you brought along the fire extinguisher for this one..... I like the black and red scheme. Can't wait to see the finished product......thanks for the updates.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

haha yeah. I meant to grab it on that one, but as fate would have it, I forgot. I got lucky, but won't ever risk it again. If that car burned to the ground, you can bet my R32 would be a lot farther along - hell, probably almost done, and this wouldn't exist.


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## thormx353 (Dec 24, 2012)

Looks awesome and your fab work is beautiful. Looking forward to seeing this thing.


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## 3rd Time Out (Aug 22, 2013)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> haha yeah. I meant to grab it on that one, but as fate would have it, I forgot. I got lucky, but won't ever risk it again. If that car burned to the ground, you can bet my R32 would be a lot farther along - hell, probably almost done, and this wouldn't exist.


Well, if it's any consolation, every time I show pics of this build to friends or guys that wrench, I get folks shaking their heads in astonishment. 

I dug that plaid headliner. What did you have in that thing? Looked really quick from the video.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

The other one was just a 100% stock motor with a log manifold, and hy35, fmic, and uni830. I made quite a few mistakes with it, but I was basically drunk the entire time. I've almost entirely stopped drinking... Hah.

Thom, if you're in the area, you're more than welcome to swing by and check it out. Just shot me a text first to make sure I'm still in town/at home.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

New catch can is done. I'm not super happy about how it turned out but it'll be aight. As usual, I screwed up the Summit order and forgot the 12an straight fitting..... OH well.


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## 3rd Time Out (Aug 22, 2013)

Man, you must have one helluva setup in your shop to do all that fab work. Nice work. Wish I had the knowledge and setup to do **** like that. I'm just a shadetree with a decent Craftsman stack and pneumatic s....lol. I hear ya on the drinking....some of my best screwups involved several barley pops. Two kids took that intake to almost nil. That said, I have perfected my smoked pork butt, and twenty hours manning a smoker gives me a good excuse to knock a few back now and again! Ha!


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

during mock up:

























Lots 'more goodies here. I'm waiting to pick up a pro-efi 128 from the dealer any day now.


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## Zowexx (Sep 23, 2013)

Nice Build bro!! The last pics of the turbo/exhaustmani... what Holset is that ? ... its a ****ing monster!! When is the car getting properly tuned ? 
All creds to u man, never seen anything like it on a 1.8t


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

From



Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


>


to 



Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


>


Why the change up? Was the car up and running before you decided to change it?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

yesssir

A couple of reasons.

1) screw motronic
2) I need the hx35/40 for someone elses build
3) it costs me almost nothing to change over
4) I like building things and want to see how it responds
5) the whole purpose of this car was for me to experiment with
6) I mean c'mon, look at it.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> yesssir
> 
> A couple of reasons.
> 
> ...


All valid and acceptable reasons :thumbup: (though a bit more than a couple  )


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

lol yeah. 

You know what's not fun? ME9. To run mafless means eliminating torque structure, which means fueling is now based on a bastardization of the limp mode maps and egt sensor. And even with the 5120, when we max out the 3-bar map, the car backfires and feels like it's going to blow up. Everything up to 28psi is totally kosher, but god forbid we go over, and to scale to a 4-bar is an even bigger headache. And boost varies with outside temperature...... can't control boost when it's under 50 degrees...... you know, **** motronic. **** it trying to fight you with everything you do. I will give it one more try with a blowthrough maf, but if that doesn't work, then never again. 


But at least this was on a 100% stock motor and the dyno wasn't started until 3500rpm. It makes positive pressure by 2krpm, though, and is wicked fun to drive.

http://i.imgur.com/oC69NLQ.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsDwOAlHDYs

/end my motronic rant


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

Are you throwing ME7 out with the bath water (ME9) ?
I haven't had the pleasure dealing with ME9 yet.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah. Me7 isn't anywhere near as bad as me9, but I want my ecu to not fight every command with a workaround. From what one of my buddies is telling me, me14 isn't nearly as bad as 9, but still makes 7 look like cake. For a stock car they're fantastic, but once you go past the limit of oe sensors and hardware, it's time to let it go.

With the pro-efi, I will be able to control 3-stage methanol injection, e85 map blending, and absolutely any function or sensor combination I could possibly want without with a headache.

edit: me9 is fine if you retain torque structure. But you can't break high 300whps without ditching it - the fueling is just too erratic, even with a scaled up maf. And I talked to my friend who tuned the car. The torque structure was ditched by somehow using the ac load function with limp home functions.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

Proefi is good ****. Local shop is using it on this, logging pressure everywhere









Are you using 128 or the other?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

128. At first I wanted the 48, but at dealer pricing, I couldn't pass up the 128.

That compound evo is pretty sweet. Do they have a build log anywhere?


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

No unfortunately there isn't a build log.

When it runs I suspect it's going to set some records so the major details are kept hush hush.

That being said, you get the feeling of '**** just got real' when your entire arm goes inside a 5" downpipe.


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## 3rd Time Out (Aug 22, 2013)

Holy Schnikeys!


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Zowexx said:


> Nice Build bro!! The last pics of the turbo/exhaustmani... what Holset is that ? ... its a ****ing monster!! When is the car getting properly tuned ?
> All creds to u man, never seen anything like it on a 1.8t


Sorry, I forgot to quote this earlier.


The turbo is a hx52 off of a volvo semi truck. It's a 67mm inducer, 1.2ish a/r t4 turbine housing and flows around 88lb/hour, roughly equivalent to two gt3071rs, or almost four k03s's.

hmm, now that would make for an interesting project. I'm going to have to add that to the "to do" list.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Dave926 said:


> No unfortunately there isn't a build log.
> 
> When it runs I suspect it's going to set some records so the major details are kept hush hush.
> 
> That being said, you get the feeling of '**** just got real' when your entire arm goes inside a 5" downpipe.


I have that same turbo sitting here lol. Mine's been rebuild with the gen1 promod 91mm compressor, though. It makes the hx40 look like a k03


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## BR_337 (Sep 3, 2011)

holly $hittt thats huge lol
where is that monter going in ?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

That's for my r25. There are pictures of the bay a couple pages back. It's not that big. Here's the compressor and turbine compared to a gt28r and hx35.


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## notsoslow (Nov 5, 2009)

That is some pretty awesome work...I love seeing people thinking sooo far out of the box. In regards to the stainless turbo header you were building for the holset, are you going to wrap that with heat tape like the stuff DEI makes? I have heard the only way to keep the stainless manni's from cracking due to heat cycling is to wrap them... I built one and it cracked( granted I did cut a few corners. Now I just rebuilt it the right way and am wondering if I should wrap it or leave it raw? What do you think?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

No. I do not like wrapping stainless manifolds. And the way this is designed, wrapping would be a real pita. I will, however, have it ceramic coated inside and out, probably double or triple thick on the outside. I will definitely wrap the downpipe.

There are a few thinks you can do, like ensuring you have "loops" in the pipe for expansion. Also, cutting the flange between runners gives the flange room to grow as it heats up. 100% penetration welds also prevent centerline cracking (where the inside of the pipe below the weld grows at the weld joint and pushes against the weld).

I will have to make a heat shield for the transfer case and axle cv. The #4 runner is less than 1/4" from the transfer case webbing. And heat shielding for the ac lines. And for the coolant lines. And for, well, everything.


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> ...Goals are 450-500whp with no traction, ever, anywhere...


Somehow it looks like you might achieve that goal...


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

yeah that's come and gone lol


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## All_Euro (Jul 20, 2008)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> yeah that's come and gone lol


Haha, very true... I probably should have reworded that slightly for you in light of your latest turbo...



Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> ...Goals are 450-500whp with *less than* no traction, ever, anywhere...


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

So, I finally have had some time and desire to start working on this turd again. The car is in a state of neglect and turmoil and it's every bit as bad as it looks in the pictures. A little TLC and it'll be okay again, though.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

I got this thread confused with your compound turbo one. I was scratching my head trying to find the post where you switched direction :banghead:

Looking forward to some progress!


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## UroTuning (Jul 18, 2012)

Awesome build!! I always loved the idea of the twin charge setup. Any thoughts of putting some kind of clutch pulley to electrically disengage the supercharge at a set psi?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Thanks

I thought about it but frankly, I don't see the point. The rotors can not flow any air unless spinning and the bypass oraface is roughly 25mm. If the throttle was after the blower and I could use a large bypass valve, maybe. But as is, is just not feasible.


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## GreekPower (Jul 8, 2005)

going to bump this because PAT (OP) needs to finish this damn build! 

only reason this is being bumped is because videos of this car are getting alot of comments lately on youtube... people want updates so i'm here to bump the threads and give the people what they want!


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## MÄDDNESSS (Oct 18, 2010)

Whats the name of the channel?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

So it's been quite a while but I've decided to start playing with this project again. Cars getting some maintenance and getting converted to actual race car duty.

I'll have some pictures of the progress but here's what's going down:

engine changes
AEG crank swapped for FSI crank
change out to the FSI tensioner set up
IE billet timing gear
finally install the hx52 and twinscroll manifold
rebuild supercharger 
swap some seals and general freshen up the engine
coolant line to AN conversion for track duty

chassis:
strip out the interior 
toggle switch & relay system
roll cage & racing seat
17z brakes
eventual ute conversion

I'm sure I'm forgetting some stuff.

The chassis is already stripped. Motors apart. I just finished rebuilding the charger. I'll have pictures when I remember to take some.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Got some time tonight to turn some wrenches.

FSI crank in, new front main and rear main. And baffled race oil pan installed. Tomorrow, head, supercharger, turbo manifold, maybe turbo and wastegate.


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## stevemannn (Apr 17, 2008)

i was wondering what ever happened to this. its good to see it again


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Haven't made it very far yet. Got the head on, but waiting for new intake bolts and exhaust manifold nuts to come in, as well as plenty of parts for the coolant system and whatnot.

I did, however, get the coolant overflow and puke tank almost completed - just waiting on the filler cap and bung, and 16an weld on bungs. I'm glad someone finally made a cast aluminum longitudinal motor coolant flange. The transverse one doesn't work so well with the EHPS pump bracket. Althought it looks like I might have made it too small for NASA, although it's the right size big enough for NHRA. I'll end up moving it and making it bigger tomorrow. I will have a line run to the rear of the car in case the puke tank overflows from lifting the head.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

So as I said before, the overflow tank I made was over 1 pint, which is NHRA regulation, but the org I'm going to race in isn't nhra, and requires a 1 liter puke tank. So I made a 1.25 one. It will mount where the factory relay box sits. The tank will recirc back to swirl tank/rad cap and a line will run to the rear wheels for vent and incase I pop a headgasket and just puke water out of the puke tank.


























I also wanted to re-do the belt tensioner set-up. So I'm moving the alternator up slightly and going to try and re-introduce the standard 1.8t belt tensioner. This will get me some more rap on the crank and super charger pullies. 









I also finished the coolant swirl tank. I was talking to EAA about some NOS billet heatercore fittings and t-stat housing, but am waiting for them to send over an invoice...

















The rest of the hardware for mounting the turbo will be here tomorrow, so I can get started working on the downpipe and intercooler piping. As luck would have it, I lost one of the flywheel bolts, so it'll be a week or so before the spare comes in. Hopefully I can find the lost bolt before the new one comes in so I can just final install the motor. I think I left it in my truck, which is at a shop getting the tranny swapped out, which I would do, but due to a hand injury, I can't really do it myself right now.


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## jettwolfymk4 01 (Nov 29, 2012)

Awesome turbo manifold!Did you built it your self?


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

jettwolfymk4 01 said:


> Awesome turbo manifold!Did you built it your self?


Yes he did. Check out post #181. Also note the massively large turbo attached to the manifold. I reposted that below.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

An coolant hose back from powder coating











I also finished my new belt length adjuster which let's me use the stock spring tensioner . This also gives me two inches more belt wrap on the crank and one inch on the super charger pulley






























Next I have to make a belt guard and scatter shield for the flywheel. I also received my mounting hardware today. Instead of nordlocks, I was sent size 14 rubber boots. I will never order from fastenal online again.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I put the motor in the car today. This is definitely not the final install of the motor, just a pre-install to get an idea of what's needed for the downpipe and intercooler piping, as well as some other stuff. The downpipe will be 4" all the way out the back. I will need to hammer the floor pan by the steering rack to get room, and I didn't even really want to start fitting up past the first 90 degree bend off the turbo until I get a guibo. The car isn't AWD right now, but it will be, and I don't want to have to remake the downpipe. I don't mind remaking exhausts, but to pull the motor to remake a downpipe down the road is a real pain.

I did get the passenger IC pipe fit up. I don't want to final weld it until the wiggins clamp comes in to secure it to the turbo. The IC piping wil





















Part of the requirements for this car is a flywheel scatter shield. Since nobody makes one, I'll have to. I don't have a press brake and my sheet metal mag break only goes up to 16 gauge, so I whipped up a mini press brake die. Like 10 minutes, it's not perfect and it's not a work of art, but it works on 11 gauge aluminum, and appears to work fine on the required 1/4" thick steel place, so it's a win. There's maybe 8 total bends I'll have to make so the break doesn't need to be a work of art. I will need to add a square up fence to it, though, as I can already tell that's going to be a problem. Tomorrow.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Working on the flywheel scatter shield a little bit


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Got the scatter shield back from powder coating. I made the turbo drain. I wanted it as far away from the manifold as possible to preserve the hose. In order to prevent vibration fatigue failures, I welded up a brace for it. I also started working on the fuel rail. I'm using Fuel Injector Development 2000cc injectors, which even with spacers are extremely short. So I had to shorten the brand new IE fuel rail, and wouldn't you know it, I shortened it too much, so I had to use spacers anyway LOL. I also turned down some shifter bracket bushings out of delrin. $12 and some time on the lathe vs what, like $60 retail? #builtnotbought. I also welded the coupler to the compressor cover. I would like to do away with any silicone couplers and use these awesome Alphalok connectors, but at $100 each, silicone will do for now.


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## ticketed2much (Feb 18, 2012)

Awesome progress! Have you had problems with flywheels before? Never saw a scatter shield in a VW before.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

I have not had a problem, but it's a safety requirement listed in the scca gcr and nhra rules for cars faster than 9.99


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Got the scatter shield back from powder coating. I made the turbo drain. I wanted it as far away from the manifold as possible to preserve the hose. In order to prevent vibration fatigue failures, I welded up a brace for it. I also started working on the fuel rail. I'm using Fuel Injector Development 2000cc injectors, which even with spacers are extremely short. So I had to shorten the brand new IE fuel rail, and wouldn't you know it, I shortened it too much, so I had to use spacers anyway LOL. I also turned down some shifter bracket bushings out of delrin. $12 and some time on the lathe vs what, like $60 retail? #builtnotbought. I also welded the coupler to the compressor cover. *I would like to do away with any silicone couplers and use these awesome Alphalok connectors, but at $100 each, silicone will do for now*.


Those Alphalok connectors are way too expensive. I plan on using regular v-band connectors on my compressor outlet pipe to intercooler as in the second generation GTX3584RS with v-band option (see below). Maybe incorporate some kind of non-silicone flex section or mount intercooler on flexible tabs.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

John. Don't. Trust me. Don't. Aftermarket Aluminum vband couplers on intercooler piping is awful. The gaskets are a pain to keep in place and getting everything to line up after it's been welded sucks. I've had to rtv the gaskets in place to keep them from falling out

Check out the Pegasus knockoff wiggens clamps. They're $50 a union and work well and allow for flex. I was going to use them for this car but thought I would try the other coupler first.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B076...gens+clamp&dpPl=1&dpID=41JCybstl0L&ref=plSrch


The alphalocs are cheap compared to other couplings on the market. When you consider legitimate wiggens are about $250 per, and rps and vibrant couplers are 150 per.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> John. Don't. Trust me. Don't. Aftermarket Aluminum vband couplers on intercooler piping is awful. The gaskets are a pain to keep in place and getting everything to line up after it's been welded sucks. I've had to rtv the gaskets in place to keep them from falling out
> 
> Check out the Pegasus knockoff wiggens clamps. They're $50 a union and work well and allow for flex. I was going to use them for this car but thought I would try the other coupler first.
> 
> ...


Gotcha:thumbup:. Thanks!

EDIT - Like those knock off wiggens clamps. Maybe incorporate 1 or 2 of those in key sections to add flex to my system. Bill Schimmel showed me the expensive purple clamps last year and I wasn't interested due to price. BTW I am going to see Bill tomorrow to show him my kick arse divided manifold and twin scroll setup. I will probably post an update in my build thread.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Awesome. I'm sure he will approve. Is funny- for as long as I lived in PA I never went to see Bill. I've seen his car once or twice at the track in Westmoreland.

The true Adel wiggens clamps are awesome, but I don't think race cars require tracking books and foundry paperwork for their piping connections. I've done some aviation work and it's crazy how much paperwork goes in to the tracking books.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Awesome. I'm sure he will approve. Is funny- for as long as I lived in PA I never went to see Bill. I've seen his car once or twice at the track in Westmoreland.
> 
> The true Adel wiggens clamps are awesome, but I don't think race cars require tracking books and foundry paperwork for their piping connections. I've done some aviation work and it's crazy how much paperwork goes in to the tracking books.


Yeah, Bill is a pretty cool guy. He has always done my engine and turbo builds. I contacted the guys at NLS two years ago in Center Valley about this build. Adam, the head technician, was very interested and gave me a lot of his time discussing the details of this build. Josh and I also talked about the build but I think he is more of an MK1 purist and maybe lost interest when I told him the size turbo I planned to use on the MK1 GTI. Not sure. That's why I ended up going back to Bill last year. He seems genuinely interested in the project even though he's mainly a VR6 guy.

I would hate to have to satisfy all the requirements for SCCA racing. What are the plans for the Twincharged Jetta? It sounds like you will be racing in a specific class.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

The safety requirements really aren't that bad for scca. Fia spec seats, fuel cell, harness, window net, collapsing steering column and a couple small stuff here and there like the scatter shield.

I'm not building for a specific class. I will probably end up in gt though. I'm following the gcr for safety requirements and building the rest of the car however I want to. I've already violated a bunch of the lower class rules with this motor: turbo size, bore/stroke, engine swap (chassis was a vr6), and I think fuel category. I'm just building the car I want to build and class be damned; I dont care about being competitive with this car.

I am also building it to nhra requirements as well, so I can have fun on either the drag or road course. If I was building for a specific class, I would stick with nhra/ihra. The rules are much more lenient and accommodating to the engine I have in this car.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> The safety requirements really aren't that bad for scca. Fia spec seats, fuel cell, harness, window net, collapsing steering column and a couple small stuff here and there like the scatter shield.
> 
> I'm not building for a specific class. I will probably end up in gt though. I'm following the gcr for safety requirements and building the rest of the car however I want to. I've already violated a bunch of the lower class rules with this motor: turbo size, bore/stroke, engine swap (chassis was a vr6), and I think fuel category. I'm just building the car I want to build and class be damned; I dont care about being competitive with this car.
> 
> I am also building it to nhra requirements as well, so I can have fun on either the drag or road course. If I was building for a specific class, I would stick with nhra/ihra. The rules are much more lenient and accommodating to the engine I have in this car.


:thumbup: I likey.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

RIP


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> RIP


Seriously? Do you plan on keeping the motor and/or drivetrain for another project? What's the plan (if any)?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Of course. Like I said in my PM, I spoke with the wife (and this was all my idea, not hers) about the number of vehicles we have and the state of our projects. Between the two of us, we have 8 cars, of which 3 run/drive, with another just waiting on a megasquirt delivery, and about four more project cars on the books for when I get something wrapped up. 6 of the 8 cars are mine..... For every one car I get running, I'm allowed one more non-running project LOL. 

I had two chassis dropped off at my shop earlier this week, my 83 scirocco and 04 r32. Having these cars here let me refocus my goals for the VW fleet. When I first bought the chassis, the scirocco was supposed to be a hill climb car. After moving to FL, where we don't have hills, the car sat idle. The R32 was supposed to be a street warrior / dream project. I know you've seen it. It's been idle for about 5 years since my move as well. 

Well, I know I want a road course car. And I want a drag car. I don't necessarily care or need a road warrior any more. Therefore, I'm consolidating. The jetta failed to make the cut for two reasons. The road course car is going to be AWD; I would either need to cut the floor pan out of the r32 to fit to the jetta. But the jetta is rusty underneath. The rockers are done, the bumper/fender supports are done. There's spots in the seat area floor pan that are holes. 

The r32 is still in good condition. So instead I opted for option B: the jetta motor will go in the R. The R, as you may remember, is already fitted for an 01e S4 transmission in longitudinal mounting. So It's already twice as cool as a FWD haldex car. With the twin charged motor, it's now 5x as cool. 

As for my 2.5L monster compound motor, well, that's going in the scirocco, which will become the drag car. I've already located a ford 8.8 and some 15x14 racing wheels. I'll need to find a clutchless tranny for it down the road, once I get the 25.1 tube chassis put together.

Ultimately, it's less cars, but the "cool" is consolidated. It's also less money, as I won't need to buy quite as many racing seats, fuel cells, fire systems, etc.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Of course. Like I said in my PM, I spoke with the wife (and this was all my idea, not hers) about the number of vehicles we have and the state of our projects. Between the two of us, we have 8 cars, of which 3 run/drive, with another just waiting on a megasquirt delivery, and about four more project cars on the books for when I get something wrapped up. 6 of the 8 cars are mine..... For every one car I get running, *I'm allowed one more non-running project LOL.*


LOL my wife complained when I brought home the 1984 GTI, "What do you need another car for?" She was pissed.



Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> I had two chassis dropped off at my shop earlier this week, my 83 scirocco and 04 r32. Having these cars here let me refocus my goals for the VW fleet. When I first bought the chassis, the scirocco was supposed to be a hill climb car. After moving to FL, where we don't have hills, the car sat idle. The R32 was supposed to be a street warrior / dream project. I know you've seen it. It's been idle for about 5 years since my move as well.
> 
> Well, I know I want a road course car. And I want a drag car. I don't necessarily care or need a road warrior any more. Therefore, I'm consolidating. The jetta failed to make the cut for two reasons. The road course car is going to be AWD; I would either need to cut the floor pan out of the r32 to fit to the jetta. But the jetta is rusty underneath. The rockers are done, the bumper/fender supports are done. There's spots in the seat area floor pan that are holes.
> 
> The r32 is still in good condition. So instead I opted for option B: the jetta motor will go in the R. The R, as you may remember, is already fitted for an 01e S4 transmission in longitudinal mounting. So It's already twice as cool as a FWD haldex car. *With the twin charged motor, it's now 5x as cool.*


That's nuts. I never heard of a longitudinally mounted 1.8T in a R32 chassis. Let alone twin-charged. That will be epic.



Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> As for my 2.5L monster compound motor, well, that's going in the scirocco, which will become the drag car. I've already located a ford 8.8 and *some 15x14 racing wheels*. I'll need to find a clutchless tranny for it down the road, once I get the 25.1 tube chassis put together.
> 
> Ultimately, it's less cars, but the "cool" is consolidated. It's also less money, as I won't need to buy quite as many racing seats, fuel cells, fire systems, etc.


14 inch wide wheels are some serious rubber. Do you have a build thread for this car?


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

mainstayinc said:


> LOL my wife complained when I brought home the 1984 GTI, "What do you need another car for?" She was pissed.


MY wife is car nuts as well. She doesn't care for the labor part of "labor of love", but she does love the smoke and shine and noise and speed and g-forces. Before I married her, she told me (if we ended up wed) I could have whatever race cars I wanted, just so long as a) they have two seats) or b) the drivers seat is adjustable. Her toy car is a 99 mustang GT 2v that I built a full forged rotating assembly for, big cams, built tranny, vortec blower. It makes low 500whp right now going lean on the dyno at like 4500rpm; I need to sump the fuel tank and upgrade the blower. She wants 650-700hp at the wheels. Her daily driver is a turbo miata I put together, waiting for the MSNS)



mainstayinc said:


> That's nuts. I never heard of a longitudinally mounted 1.8T in a R32 chassis. Let alone twin-charged. That will be epic.


Yeah, Here's the last shot I have of that car with the 2.5L engine and 94mm (91? been so long I don't remember) turbo in it. from 2014. And a nice shot with a smaller 76mm from 2013. The 1.8t will drop right in, although I'll need to re-do the mounts to raise the motor a hair, move it back slightly, and center it in the chassis better.




















mainstayinc said:


> 14 inch wide wheels are some serious rubber. Do you have a build thread for this car?


Yeah. The 14's will be 32x17.5 I've also found a local set of 10's that'll also let me run in 275x and 10.5 non-w classes. No build thread yet. Just parts collection phase.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

So progress is going to slow down a lot from here on out. I was in a car accident in december in which I tore some ligaments in my wrist. I finally had surgery for it last monday. I won't have use of one of my hands for approximately the next six months, but I'm going to be doing the best I can. I've been cleaning out the spare parts in the shop, throwing away things I've been hoarding, and putting up other parts I don't need but have been hanging on to for sale. 

In preparation for the new chassis, I was able to modify the transverse mount accessory bracket to clear the longitudinal left engine mount. Because my twinscroll manifold was made for a quattro fwd car and not a quattro longi car, the OE rright mount wont fit. I'll have to jig up and make a right size engine mount. I wasn't even able to get the brackets bolted back up, because several of the allen bolts stripped out when I went to remove the bracket. I have a bunch of 12.9 hardware, so I can at least get the accessories bolted back up later.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> So progress is going to slow down a lot from here on out. *I was in a car accident in december in which I tore some ligaments in my wrist.* I finally had surgery for it last monday. I won't have use of one of my hands for approximately the next six months, but I'm going to be doing the best I can. I've been cleaning out the spare parts in the shop, throwing away things I've been hoarding, and putting up other parts I don't need but have been hanging on to for sale.
> 
> In preparation for the new chassis, I was able to modify the transverse mount accessory bracket to clear the longitudinal left engine mount. Because my twinscroll manifold was made for a quattro fwd car and not a quattro longi car, the OE rright mount wont fit. I'll have to jig up and make a right size engine mount. I wasn't even able to get the brackets bolted back up, because several of the allen bolts stripped out when I went to remove the bracket. I have a bunch of 12.9 hardware, so I can at least get the accessories bolted back up later.


That must have been a pretty bad accident. Looking forward to any updates on your project(s).


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Not to to bad. I survived lol. No, I tore up my dominant hand and unfortunately the road to recovery after surgery it's an extremely long one.


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## mainstayinc (Oct 4, 2006)

Pat @ Pitt Soundworks said:


> Not to to bad. I survived lol. No, I tore up my dominant hand and unfortunately the road to recovery after surgery it's an extremely long one.


I had surgery in college to repair torn ligament in my wrist due to sports injury. Spent six weeks in a cast plus rehab. Never really healed.


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Yeah the doctor said it's a crap shot as to whether I'll get full movement back in that hand. He has other patients with this injury that are still in recovery process 4 years later. All I know is I have to have the cast on for 6 months.


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## ExtremeVR6 (Sep 6, 2001)

But did you ask the REALLY important question? 

When can you get back to wrenching? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Pat @ Pitt Soundworks (Nov 14, 2008)

Lol

I'm going to attemp to do what I can but it's really tough. Actually fabricating anything is basically impossible. I've already dragged the wife in to helping a couple times already. She's not thrilled


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