# vr6 na gains on meth inj ?



## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

has anybody noticed any gains on an na engine with meth injection.
my current setup is 
2.8vr6
256 cams
vgi
headwork
2.5 exhaust, no cat
I am just wondering if this is a worth while investment on a na engine for not only a bit of protection but hp improvement.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: vr6 na gains on meth inj ? (USOPHUNKE)*

The bottom line is that if your engine needs octane, WAI will deliver it. Intake cooling really isn't an issue for NA engines, so you won't see gains there whereas that's a big part of the fun with boost.
With that said, you can certainly create a need for more octane if you increase your compression ratio, advance your ignition timing, and/or lean out your mixture. Nitrous oxide is yet one more instance where WAI would come in VERY handy. Do you plan any of this? Or, do your ECU's datalogs demonstrate that timing is being retarded (via the knock sensor)? If so, WAI is a very good bet. If not, then you just don't need it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

I plan to either go fi way down the road, I have a 75 shot setup which I am planning to put in around oct time frame.


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: (USOPHUNKE)*

Its absolutely killer when paired with nitrous. I installed a setup on a 96 Gti Vr6 running a 75 shot while still utilizing standard GIAC software. No timing was being pulled.


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## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

sweet, I have basicly the same setup, 98 vr6 giac with cams and headwork and a 75 shot.
what size nozzles did you use, can you post pics of your setup and how you ran your lines and did you use the provided water tank or use the wiper one?


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## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

what would be a good way to actuate the meth with nos setup. ? I assume you want both to happen at the same time


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (USOPHUNKE)*

You can trigger your WAI solenoid by the same means that you activate the nitrous circuit. There's no need for a controller. On/off is fine. For a 75 shot, I'd probably go for 100cc and adjust the pump pressure to dial it in. Place the nitrous/fuel fogger far away from the engine and the WAI nozzle up at the throttle body. This way the nitrous oxide is fully gaseous by the time it interacts with the water/methanol spray. You don't want a hail storm inside the intake manifold.


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## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

ok that sounds ok...
I was thinking the nitrous right after maf, and the h20 right after the t.b. with one of the spacer plates. is that too close to each other?
I will give you a call in a few days so we can get a list compiled of what I need.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (USOPHUNKE)*

Your mounting points are correct. Give me a call when you'd like to discuss specifics: 856-456-3335. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

ok sounds good.


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: (USOPHUNKE)*

I used the vacuum switch included in the Devils Own NA kit so the meth would start spraying low vacuum so it had a slight head start before the nitrous was activated at full throttle from a WOT switch.


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## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

it sucks here at work cuz I cant view pics that most people post, and I do alot better with diagrams and pics.
using the wot switch I assume as soon as you let off the nos stops, then as soon as your wot again it comes back on. 
what if you did not want to use it during 1st and second?
my car is a mk2 vr and it spins alot now through first if I am hammering on it. 2nd isnt as bad, but if I added even a few more hp during those two gears initially I would lose pretty much all traction.


_Modified by USOPHUNKE at 4:58 AM 8-14-2008_


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (USOPHUNKE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *USOPHUNKE* »_using the wot switch I assume as soon as you let off the nos stops, then as soon as your wot again it comes back on.

That is correct.

_Quote »_what if you did not want to use it during 1st and second?

Invest in a controller that automates this sort of control. Or, use microswitches to lock out 1st and 2nd gears and a window switch to arm the nitrous oxide system only between ~2500rpms and say... 500rpms lower than redline. I can supply anything and everything nitrous oxide. It's a magical combination with WAI.


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## USOPHUNKE (Aug 31, 2003)

cool thanks scott, on this suject I wouldnt even consider going somewhere else!


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## croniccorrado (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (USOPHUNKE)*

can you run water/meth all the time? ok im rebuilding my vr6 and im going to run 13.1 pistons. is water/meth safe to run all the time, so i dont have to run race gas? if so how long does it last,will it last for a whole tank of gas?


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (croniccorrado)*

Yes, you can run water/methanol injection all day every day. It is a fine substitute for race fuel (although it works differently and thusly has to be implemented in its own way). I can't tell you how long it will last until you explain exactly how hard you'll be driving and exactly how your engine is set up. A 2liter tank typically lasts the average mild turbo-equipped engine for a tank of gasoline or two, though. Your engine should be less thirsty. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## croniccorrado (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

does anyone have an links or web pages ......any thing were i can get anymore info so i can read into running this on a high compression motor.pros and cons.Thanks Ian


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (croniccorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *croniccorrado* »_does anyone have an links or web pages ......any thing were i can get anymore info so i can read into running this on a high compression motor.pros and cons.Thanks Ian

Ian, WAI with NA works pretty much exactly the same way as it does for boosted applications and for exactly the same reasons. Any differences lie in the controller and how much you spray and when.
My own introduction to WAI was for taming nitrous oxide on an 11.3:1 2.0l 16v with ITBs. The pros/cons are the same as with a run of the mill turbo set up. The bottom line is that these systems provide IAT cooling and octane on demand. Most NA engines don't need improvements in either. That's why you don't see it much.


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: ([email protected])*

im going to be buying a devils own progresive stage 2 kit (i think thats the name) and i want to install it on my 24v. right now my only mods are intake,exhaust, and a unitronic reflash. so will adding a headspacer for the compression yield any power? or would i have to swap pistons also?


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*FV-QR*









ok so theirs how i got my setup correct?
right now my only mods are intake, cartback, and unitronic chip stage 1.
now my question is where should i start the flow at? since the controller has a start dial and a full dial.?
then im guessin i do a quick run and log the sensors and if im not showing signals of engine knock then i raise the timing up 1 degree? then do another run then rescan then raise timing again? and i would do this until i finally get a knock signal?
my goal: i know i wont get big gains like a turbo car. but if i can at least pull 5-7whp out of it without any other mods ill be satisfied. im def not looking into gettin cams or headwork since im saving up for a turbo kit. and i know unitronics stage 1+ file works on 93octane. so thats where my moneys gonna be.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_You can trigger your WAI solenoid by the same means that you activate the nitrous circuit. There's no need for a controller. On/off is fine. For a 75 shot, I'd probably go for 100cc and adjust the pump pressure to dial it in. Place the nitrous/fuel fogger far away from the engine and the WAI nozzle up at the throttle body. This way the nitrous oxide is fully gaseous by the time it interacts with the water/methanol spray. You don't want a hail storm inside the intake manifold.









but what if you have a direct port setup? where would the nozzle be best placed then? also would it be better with 100% meth or 50/50 mix with water?


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