# VW tops the five worst cars for reliability



## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

Todays Wall St Journal has the JD Powers annual report on the best and worst cars as far as reliability and VW makes the top 5 worst. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BlackRabbitGTI (Apr 1, 2004)

Not surprised... All the stupid problems everybody is having...


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## 3VWMAN (Feb 6, 2002)

*Re: (BlackRabbitGTI)*

more of a General VW kind of post...


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## INSANE808JETTA (Nov 13, 2003)

*Re: (3VWMAN)*

To put it politley, I really do not care what JD Powers and all those other magazines out there say, if you like YOUR VW, that is what counts. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*

Oh... The good news is VW impoved their scores from a year ago: The VW score improved 1.3% to 386 problems per 100 vehicles, placing it fifth from the bottom in the survey just behind Hyundai. Len Hunt, head of the VW brand in North America, said in a recent interview that VW is beefing up its attack on quality problems for both brands. Mr. Hunt also said VW has also created a "North American Quality Circle Jerk" including the group's top engineering executive to systematically address quality problems.


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*

Oops... That's suppose to read "North American Quality Circle". I don't know how the "Jerk" got in there!


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## BrightGreenB5 (Dec 7, 2000)

*Re: (Jetta2.show)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jetta2.show* »_To put it politley, I really do not care what JD Powers and all those other magazines out there say, if you like YOUR VW, that is what counts. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

















I agree.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (BrightGreenB5)*

It's funny. I can remember American Fiat enthusiasts, and Peugeot fans, and Renault partisans etc saying words to the same effect about their favored marque, as their popularity and sales amongst the general public spiraled ever-downward to each of their respective oblivions.
I love VWs perhaps more (at least probably LONGER) than anyone hereabouts. But goofs like me are not enough to keep a major business concern alive and profitable. VWoA is once again on the downward side of their perpetual American rollercoaster ride, except this time there might...just _maybe_, be no going back up like every time before. American carbuyers will only forgive and forget a limited number of times before they simply turn their backs and scorn a car maker/importer that doesn't provide them with what they want and need. VW's time is definitely running out.


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## lemonvwgirl (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*

they forgot mine, 2001 Wolfburg. What a piece of crap. It broke down yesterday for the 11th time since 04/01. I'm going in today to have a tizzy, if they don't do something, I'm calling a lawyer. 
Needless to say I will have them put me in a Passat, not that I want that, but right now anything is better than driving this thing and breaking down everywhere... piece of crap!!
For those out there who are considering buying a VW, think again!!


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## lemonvwgirl (Jul 2, 2004)

*Re: (BrightGreenB5)*

LOL!!!, yeah, but when it breaks down 11times in 3 years, you ain't gonna like it much!! LOL


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## Snooters (Sep 13, 2003)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sails180* »_Oh... The good news is VW impoved their scores from a year ago: The VW score improved 1.3% to 386 problems per 100 vehicles, placing it fifth from the bottom in the survey just behind Hyundai. .

you gotta be skeptical about these claims, as hyundai is considered on of the most reliable car makers. their problems per 100 vehicles are up there with honda. not sure where you got your info.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (Snooters)*

I agree wholeheartedly with your point about Hyundai. The dealership I work for is a major Hyundaimonger, and today's Hyundais are some of the most impeccably assembled and reliable automobiles on the road, at any price, IMO. This has to be one of the most-improved automakers of recent years.
Also, to offer my own bit of empirical evidence to back this up, Hyundai owners are probably the MOST satisfied with their automobiles of all the makes we sell, and this includes Mazda, Nissan, Suzuki, and Ford. They really are good products, and Volkswagen could take a lesson or three from the Koreans, IMO.
But, we all know that they are Germans, therefore they take advice from NO ONE.


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (Snooters)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Snooters* »_
you gotta be skeptical about these claims, as hyundai is considered on of the most reliable car makers. their problems per 100 vehicles are up there with honda. not sure where you got your info.

As stated in the first post this infomation came from JD Powers and was reported in the Wall St Journal on 6/30/04.


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## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

*Re: (vwlarry)*

I was a mechanic, then shop foreman, then manager and finally dealer principal way back when these things were still cooled by air and oil.
VW's problem, and Germans in general, is just what someone said in this thread, they don't listen to ANYONE. Although they can make some really neat stuff, they can also screw up monumentally, and then make the same mistake year in and year out. If you ever want the thrill of a lifetime, find some of their engineering screw-ups and try to get them to respond (until they need YOUR solution - been there, done that).
My exact worry, they will arrogantly screw up the entire market until one fine day we are trying to sell beetles when PL510s are twice the car at half the price (oooohhhh, sorry, a flashback). I may love my 411s and 412s, but not very many people would ever have put up with them, especially at some goofy price of 1.5 Buicks. Today's vasser cars are in much the same state (think back to the B3!!) and here the goofballs are fooling around with Toe-Rags and Phaetons when they can't get the Golf right.
Pat


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: (Pat Dolan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pat Dolan* »_Today's vasser cars are in much the same state (think back to the B3!!) and here the goofballs are fooling around with Toe-Rags and Phaetons when they can't get the Golf right.

My thought exactly, why on earth would this company get into the high-end car market when they don't even come close to building a reliable $20,000 car. Who in their right mind would pay $85,000 for a VW? Well... on a personal note I guess I did. The 16 years I owned my 87' GTI 16v when you total up the cost of the car and the repair bills I spent about $60,000. Would I have been better off buying a $45,000 Lexus, Infinity or even a BMW or Audi for that matter? Most likely.
Yes, I'm one of those weird foolish long time VW buyers. My first VW, a 69' Beetle was a great car, the 72' Camper was a POS lemon, I liked the 87' GTI 16v but it cost way to much to maintain, my current two VWs, 00' Jetta GLX and the 03' GTI 20th AE (can you believe it, another GTI) have been totally problem free so far, I've got 4.5 years and 40,000 miles on the Jetta but the 03' GTI is to new to rate.
Anyway... I'm thinking of throwing-in-the-towel with these VWs and getting something else, but... who'd buy my used cars? 


_Modified by sails180 at 7:21 AM 7-4-2004_


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (sails180)*

I can't believe it! FINALLY someone here in the Vortex (Pat and sails) bring in (invaluable) historical perspective that corroborates what I've been screeding about for so long by mydamnself.
Thank you, gentlemen. It's good to know that there is somebody here who actually lived through the "bad old days" of the seventies and eighties with VW, and has lived to tell the tale. (Make that _cautionary_ tale.







.)


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: (vwlarry)*

Yup... I've been "around the block" a few times. In the early 80's VW just about went the way of the Yugo, extinct from at least the American car market. After that 72' Camper I'd had it with VW. But by 1987 I was ready to try it again. After all the problems I had with the 87 'GTI 16v I don't really understand way I bought a new 00' Jetta, but I did. Surprisingly it has been a great car, totally, 100% problem free to date. I've spent about $5,000 in conservative, smart performance modifications and absoultly love the driveabily and reliablity (so far) of this car. It was time to replace the 87' GTI in November of 03' so I grabbed the 03' GTI 20th AE for a bit below invoice. I do truly love the performance and driveablity of this car as is. So, at this point I'd have to say I'm really happy with my two VW currently. But... I know of four friends and a co-worker that have bought their first new VWs (not on my advice), a 95' Jetta, 97' Jetta VR6, 2 01' Jetta VR6's and an 03' GTI 1.8t. They have all had a lot of warranty problems with their cars. Most of these problem have been what I would consider minor, in many of the cases they have been recuring problems that have not been addressed correctly by the various Chicago area VW service departments. Some of the problems they have had were taken to VWoA. Their responses from VWoA have been negative. These people that I know well have all gotten rid of their cars, with the exception of the person with the 03' GTI 1.8t, that's happening soon, before the warranty expired and have said they will never buy another VW again. I also have a client that complains about how much he has to take his Toe-Rag in to have things fixed, some are for the same problem that wasn't fixed the first time.
Anyway... I currently don't know anyone personally that likes their "new" VW. 


_Modified by sails180 at 10:35 AM 7-4-2004_


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (sails180)*

Our stories are somewhat similar. My VW history goes back to 1970, and spans the air-to-water transition, etc. (I'm a Chicagoan of sorts also, being a NW Indiana "Southsider"







.) I've been a VW missionary so many times I can't count them all. At least 30 people...family, friends, co-workers, have purchased VWs based upon my proselytising and prodding, and many of those over the years have also sworn Volkswagens off after unhappy experiences with them (including my mom and dad







). But I, the Happy Wanderer of VW-dom (dumb?) just keep motoring along in my People's Cars through the years, content to watch, amused and many times bemused, by the bumbling bunch of business-school dropouts who steer the VWoA ship-of-fortune from one rocky reef to the next, always more than ready to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
It's a great show, ain't it? Sort of like watching a trainwreck in super slow-motion.


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: (vwlarry)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwlarry* »_It's a great show, ain't it? Sort of like watching a trainwreck in super slow-motion.
















This sums it up perfectly!


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## VWTardis (Jun 27, 2004)

Interesting conversations but like most topics Isuppose perspective is everything.


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## VWTardis (Jun 27, 2004)

Sorry about that did not get to finish it. Perspective is everything. While VW may be 5th from the bottom in quality the differences in actual numbers of problems between 5th from the bottom and 5th from the top are not that great. Yes I have had some annoying problems with the VW's I have owned in the past and currently own. But not really any more (and in some cases far less) than the cars I have owned from other companies. Curious how a car which seems to gather so many complaints about quality also ranks among the top in resale value. Something that I have not only read but can vouch for from personal example since I am on my 4th VW. Have I had some problems, yes. Frequent check engine lights caused by everything from pinhole leaks in vacum hoses to a leaky fuel cap. I do have an expensive repair to do now but the cost has nothing to do with the part ($16.00). Its just that its 7 hours of labor to get to it and make the swap. On the other hand my 2000 Beetle GLX with 70,000 miles on it can still go over 4000 miles without using a drop of oil.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: (VWTardis)*

)VW ownership can be a v. paradoxical experience. I've owned 15 Volkswagens, with 6 of those being purchased new, over the past 34 years, and my personal experience with each of them has been right there in the "delighted" category. Hell, I'm no masochist, and to inspire three decades plus of rather intense owner loyalty means that Volkswagen certainly is capable of doing the carmaking-thang pretty darned well, I'd say. 
But, that's MY story. Unfortunately, such a tale with a happy theme does seem to fall into the exception-to-the-rule realm when it comes to VW ownership in America, anyway. I should also add that, back in the mid-seventies, when I myself purchased my first brand-new VW (a '76 Scirocco; one of two new Sciroccos I owned), VW was in the midst of a quality-control NIGHTMARE that only us oldtimers remember today. The cars were brilliantly engineered, futuristically designed, and perfect for the marketplace. They were also fiendishly temperamental and damned-near totally unreliable, with emissions-control sourced driveability and running problems that today's spoiled carbuyers would simply not believe. The electrical systems on VWs then were a joke (Germans simply do not accept electricity as a reality, I am convinced







), the cars began rusting BEFORE they left the assembly lines, and if you made the naive mistake of paying the extra optional expense for metallic paint (of which I did...Ancona Blue...a gorgeous color







), you were rewarded with a paint finish that went chalky and flaky about 3 minutes after the 12/12 warranty expired, etc etc etc. 
Enough of my misty-eyed reminiscing







. My point, if there is one, is that VW is a company that seems to succeed _in spite of itself_. We loyalists have served them well over the years, being the bird-dogs who have brought new potential converts to the cause time and time again. The trouble is, the loyalistic zeal that infected guys like me hasn't been contagious enough to infect sufficient numbers of other folks to mask VW's ongoing deficiencies in ultimate quality control (read: _reliability_). And the crows are coming home to roost in a current market that is less tolerant of "quirky" (read: UNreliable) cars than it has EVER been.
In other words, VW's teat is in the wringer, as the country folk say.


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## Pat Dolan (Sep 28, 2003)

*Re: (VWTardis)*

I have a slightly different perspective from most. I started out in the VW business as a mechanic (as we were called in the "good old days") when we actually repaired things instead of changing components. I came from a racing and engineering background, and found absolute delight in seeing what the designers were TRYING to do. We considered it our duty to make sure that when a repair was done, the custome got what the designer intended (and all of the information to do so was available to us easily). I have gone on to be a vehicle manufacturer myself, and understand a little of what they are going through, but mostly sympathise that the engineering guys (who really DO try their very best) at VW Porsche and Audi who must compete with financial managers and marketing morons (who NEVER understand the North American phscye or marketplace) to get what they want into the customer's hands. 
There are a number of cars that are in the same category - some brilliance shines through but the shortcomings can bite you in the a$$! - but VW and Audi are consitant in making a nearly great product with some fatal flaws that NEVER get addressed (because in the old country, you don't question these things, you just puff out your chest with the pride of being a responsible owner and fix it). I still buy the cars, and must say that our current A4 TDI Variant is almost perfect in execution (but would BE perfect if I could buy a B5 AWD V6 TDI!!) and has really good reliability.
Mostly, I lament the end of an era when the VW service department was a very highly trained and skilled group of people backed by parts supplies of high quality and competitive price. Today, I seem to encounter parts swappers in the shop and very inexperience cheap labour at the parts counter who want to charge me $149.00 for a bloody Audi brake hose (that I can get aftermarket for $9.95) and dealers who are in it for nothing but the money (as you can tell from the Japanese brands on their masthead). I really hate to say this, but THIS is what happens when the afformentioned types are at the national helm.
I will still buy, fix, modify, race and drive the cars, though, because someone over there DOES have a vision of a motorcar and its components that is pretty close to what I believe is just right.
Pat


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## shelby87cc (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: (Pat Dolan)*

I don't like any of those reports. I heard the older VW are built much better than the new ones, which are supposedly junk. I had a few Daytonas and they are rated horrible, but those cars were absolutely sweet.....don't have them now because one was totalled and I had to sell the others for financial purposes.....plain and simple these reports should be taken with a grain of sand!


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (shelby87cc)*



shelby87cc said:


> I don't like any of those reports. I heard the older VW are built much better than the new ones, which are supposedly junk. IQUOTE]
> As a long time VW driver, I can say that our New Passat is by far the best product to ever come out of a VW factory.


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: (vwbrvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwbrvr6* »_As a long time VW driver, I can say that our New Passat is by far the best product to ever come out of a VW factory.

OK... Is it "new" as in "brand new" or is it just new? The true test in a vehicles reliability comes with many miles on the car and many years of ownership. So... Get back to us when this "new" Passat is loaded up with some miles (I'd say at least 60,000+) then lets hear what you think of the car.










_Modified by sails180 at 10:18 PM 7-7-2004_


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## GTiandrewK (Jan 12, 2003)

*Re: (lemonvwgirl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lemonvwgirl* »_LOL!!!, yeah, but when it breaks down 11times in 3 years, you ain't gonna like it much!! LOL

Hey girl,
try 15 times in 1 year.







VW even paid me 2months of car payments.
At the end, my beloved GTi had to go. I miss it but I don't miss the problems.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (sails180)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sails180* »_
OK... Is it "new" as in "brand new" or is it just new? The true test in a vehicles reliability comes with many miles on the car and many years of ownership. So... Get back to us when this "new" Passat is loaded up with some miles (I'd say at least 60,000+) then lets hear what you think of the car.









_Modified by sails180 at 10:18 PM 7-7-2004_

Its an '02 with 20,000 miles. Comparing to my other 2 VWs, VW has come a long way.


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## VWTardis (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: (sails180)*

My current VW a 2000 Beetle GLX with 70,000 + miles. A couple of minor problems but no more than other cars I have owned. None of them involve more than $30.00 in parts. (Wish I could have said the same for labor though.







But thats not VW's fault. All the other guys mechanics charge about the same. Oh yes after 70,000 miles it still dosent use a drop of oil in 5,000 miles. I love it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Almost as good as my last VW which was a 1996 Jetta 2.0 GLS. Only problems with that were a coil and wheel bearnings (latter was my fault). Point is VW may have some faults they need to work on but they are no worse than the majority of cars out there and a lot more fun to drive.


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## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

i have herd about VW's breaking down alot but i have never really witnessed it. all my friends with VW's have had "honda like" quality and rarely "break down" (note: they have had to replace small things alot like window regulators and such but thats not considered "breaking down" in my book.) hyundai suposedly manufactors kias but they are of worst reliablity and quality ive herd. ive herd very sorry remarks except the kia sorento....ive herd thats one solid SUV


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## Rallybug (Dec 29, 2000)

*Re: (ihaveavr6)*

I suppose to a certain extent the old adages apply
When I'm right, no one remembers. When I'm wrong, no one forgets
and
a happy customer will tell a friend, but an unhappy customer will tell 10 friends
All things that any company should keep at the front of their minds


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: (ihaveavr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ihaveavr6* »_i have herd about VW's breaking down alot but i have never really witnessed it. all my friends with VW's have had "honda like" quality and rarely "break down" (note: they have had to replace small things alot like *window regulators* and such but thats not considered "breaking down" in my book.) hyundai suposedly manufactors kias but they are of worst reliablity and quality ive herd. ive herd very sorry remarks except the kia sorento....ive herd thats one solid SUV

Replacing a lot of window regulators... At about $650 for parts and labor that adds up to a lot of money! Also, if you're on a road trip or a long drive and it's poring rain or freezing cold in the dead of winter and a window regulator goes out in the down postion (like after paying a toll) that's an expensive pain in the a$$!


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## UndrConstruction (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sails180* »_Todays Wall St Journal has the JD Powers annual report on the best and worst cars as far as reliability and VW makes the top 5 worst. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
 
they can just blow it out their asses. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif Nice generalization about VWs. It doesnt make me change my mind about my car. I love it even more http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## burningmoney97 (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*

it all depends on what year - my car was reliable back in 02.


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## engine101 (Apr 8, 2002)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (burningmoney97)*

Agreed. My '98 8v has been totally problem free for 128K miles.
I soo wanna buy a new GTI vr6, but all i hear, everywhere i turn is DON'T. I can't put much faith in magazines either, but when several mags say the same thing, it's hard to ignore, Consumer reports recently said similarly disappointing things about all VW's.


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## shgolden (Oct 29, 2003)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (engine101)*

Be sure to keep things in prespective: All cars are far more reliable including VWs) than they were just a few years ago. My '03 Jetta has been trouble-free in its first 16,000 miles, and it is by far the best equipped and most complicated car I've ever owned. You should expect that kind of reliability from any car you buy today. My previous Honda, Acura(s), and a Toyota all had some problem in their first 15,000 miiles. 
I'm not discounting all the problems that this latest round of VWs have had the past few years. There's good reasons why VWs appear near the bottom of reliablity and quality ratings from Consumers Reports and J. D. Powers. However, in general, I believe that with reasonable care and maintenance, any car you buy today will be reliable.


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (burningmoney97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *burningmoney97* »_it all depends on what year - my car *was* reliable back in 02. 

Was reliable? Sounds like it's gone. What happen to it, how many reliable miles did it make it to? I don't think it's so much the model year, it's more like getting lucky with a particular VW any year. Example, my 00' Jetta GLX (manual) has been flawless to date. It's closing in on being 5 years old with 45,000 miles on it with not one problem what-so-ever. But on the other hand I know of 00' Jetta GLX's that have been plagued with problems. If I can get over 100,000 miles on my Jetta without any problem I'll be truly amazed.


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## JerseyDubber885 (Nov 5, 2003)

JD Power can go to hell.


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## 01LagoonblueVR6 (Jul 12, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*

This is my take. I just bought a 01 Jetta. I'm the second owner of this car. It has 70k on it. My past three cars were Toyota's, but I am bored with them. Toyota has NO zip, no style, no nothing. That could be 8yrs of ownership talking. I NEVER had any of my three Toyota's break down.
My Girlfriend has a 03 Jetta 1.8t and I thought it was an awesome looking, and driving car. I thought that the features that she got with it far surpassed my Corolla LE. 
In early June my car was totaled, and I told myself that I would not get another Toyota. She had me talked into getting a Passat. I looked at one Passat. It was a 00 1.8t. When I drove it the car acted as if the turbo was dead i.e. no turbo whistle, and NO pickup. In short it was a real turd. The car was nice looking, it had a stupid cup holder contraption, and only had 58k, but something said stay away. I also forgot to mention that the salesman had to jump it because it wouldn't start...always a bad first impression!!
Next me and the little cookie cutter went to the dealer where she got her car from. On the lot they had a vast array of V-dubs to choose from. The one that caught my eye was a 01 Blue Lagoon Jetta VR6 with hot looking 17" rims (hot as in classy not Pimp-my-ride). This was the car for me. This thing had everything on it and could move well too.
After buying the car I have read as much as I can, and there are, without a doubt some VERY pissed off people out there. I can totally understand. VW is not a cheap car. Any car is a major expense if you spend $2000 or $200,000. To have your car breakdown all of the time is a real bite to the wallet, and the list could go on. 
From my research I have found common problems with my car to be window regulators, and coil packs. Less common, but still mentioned a lot was idiot lights faulting (or coming on with no real problem) and the mass air sensor. That's not to say there have not been catastrophic problems either, such as; Transmissions going out, high oil consumption leading to engine failure because a low oil light didn't come on. I suppose from what I read that ticks people off the most has been the fact that a lot of people have said that their local dealer service team has been just shy of insulting to the customers problems.
So far with just shy of 500 miles of ownership under my belt I noticed two things about my Jetta. 1) There is a display (red LCD) in the middle of the dash that fades light intensity when the outside temperature gets above 80...2) My "Check Engine" light came on about 75 miles ago. I reset that by taking the negative off the battery, and Turing the ignition key as if I were starting the car.
Conclusion:
I love this car. It is very fun to drive, and looks outstanding. I do expect heartbreak. It is eminent. I have always been relatively poor so I have always fixed my own cars. With the boom of the internet I can find aftermarket parts and somewhat OK prices. Examples would be $80 for a regulator, and $240 for a coil pack. My local dealer rate is $89hr. I won't be doing that. The common problems that I spoke of are IMO easy to get to and I can do them myself. I just hope that the rate in which they happen is not too frequent. So am I suggesting current owners "put-up and shut-up" and fix their own cars? NO!!! I'm just stating that I love this car and will fix it until it "fixes" me. I like the car so much that it is currently getting more attention than my 98 HD Fatboy, how sad is that??? It’s summer for God’s sake. To the owners of lemons.....I feel for you. I can't imagine how pissed and disappointed you must be.
By the way this is my second VW. My fist being an 87 Jetta. I loved it too. The thing I remember most about that car was the suspension. When you hit the brakes on that car the back end didn't raise up. It stayed close to the ground. I had it two year with no major or minor mechanical problems. However, about the time I got rid of it there was a pretty good loss of throttle response. I never did look into what the cause of it was. 
Cheers


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## massgolf (Apr 12, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (engine101)*

I'm one of the fotunate guys. I just finished my JD Powers survey moments ago. I gave mostly 9's and 10's for most questions asked. My only real gripe was the defect on the plactic bezel ring around the headlight switch. There was a small white ring of bad plastic that was noticed at delivery. It was taken care of under warranty two months later at another dealership. This car has no unusal noises ect so far with 4600 miles.


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (massgolf)*

Fortunate is right. I've purchased eight new Volkswagens over the past 28 years, and NOT ONCE has VWoA EVER paid me the courtesy of asking me what I thought of their products via survey, phone call, telegram, smoke signal, or semaphore.
It's too bad, really. If they had bothered to ask me, I would have flattered them with happy ownership experiences. I guess they couldn't be bothered with surveying an owner that they could take for GRANTED.


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## silentnate0 (May 6, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (vwlarry)*

It is said that treat your vw poorly, and it will be 20X worse than a honda, but treat it well and it will be 20X better than honda
I have owned a 91 jetta with 200,000 miles and had only one problem, my 97 gti is free of troubles to date


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## 2003Sport (Dec 21, 2003)

*WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG*

JD Powers is NOT a relaibility survey. The dummies at JD Powers think that by ASKING people questions they get an accurate result.








THIS IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Statistical Bull$....

Jd Powers is a COMPLAINTS survey and cannot measure reliability.
Fussy VW,BMW,Merc owners will often complain more because they expect more while owners of some *** brands don't expect much so dont complain much. Hey presto a higher rating!
I can show you surveys where Subaru constantly comes out poor because of the unreliability and cost of repair the WRX engines.
Warranty claims are the best indicator of reliability.


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## MyTime (Jul 10, 2004)

Recently bought an 02 W8 Pasat and Love every minute that I drive it..!!


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (2003Sport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2003Sport* »_JD Powers is NOT a relaibility survey. The dummies at JD Powers think that by ASKING people questions they get an accurate result.








THIS IS WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Statistical Bull$....

Jd Powers is a COMPLAINTS survey and cannot measure reliability.
Fussy VW,BMW,Merc owners will often complain more because they expect more while owners of some *** brands don't expect much so dont complain much. Hey presto a higher rating!
I can show you surveys where Subaru constantly comes out poor because of the unreliability and cost of repair the WRX engines.
*Warranty claims are the best indicator of reliability*.

I believe that is how JD Powers came to their conclusions. It was not the JD Powers survey you fill out after you purchase your car but rather warranty claims on vehicles. It's really very simple math.


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## Elbows (Feb 27, 2001)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (sails180)*

I won't get into the JD Powers thing - as there are plenty of valid points in it, but also - it is very skewed in some areas.
As a VW sales person, I have had some shocking incidents, both good and bad.
Do I trust my car less, now that I work at a Dealership? Yes. Seeing cars in for service all the time will wear you down. However, my dealership does 90% of the Volkswagens in the Charlotte area (the other two dealerships have very little service, and are routinely backed up 6 weeks)
That being said, everything about Volkswagens leads me to believe they are indeed excellent cars. However, its the reliability, or repair policies, and refusal of VW to attack problems (which granted - in the past year I have seen a much quicker response)
Its been difficult working here - and it has really downed my enthusiasm for cars as a whole. However, I love my car - despite always having a small thought in the back of the head, as far as reliability goes (I purchased the car, as a CPO).
As I've posted before, I've had a few minor issues with the car since I purchased it - but everytime I look at it, it makes me smile. In fact the Golf IV was what made me become a car-guy.
VW does indeed need to work on Service policies, and parts-costs. The prices are absolutely ridiculous, and the "good will" ability is severely lacking in the service dept. <--- This obviously makes me fear my end of employment here, as I'm sure I'll experience some VW junk from the service dept.
The weird thing is there are customers who come in smiling, and "loving their car to death" even whilst getting a transmission replaced, or...having a CEL turned off for the fourth time in two months. Its amazing how much people like these cars.
There was an article posted about some Customer happiness index - which was aimed at more overall pleasure with the vehicle. Volkswagen/Audi ranked 1st...and the summation of the article was "its better to have a car you like, with a few problems...than live with a boring car which will never break". I think thats one of the issues.
(steps off soap box)
Sorry, just wanted to chime in from this side of the fence.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (Elbows)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Elbows* »_
There was an article posted about some Customer happiness index - which was aimed at more overall pleasure with the vehicle. Volkswagen/Audi ranked 1st...and the summation of the article was "its better to have a car you like, with a few problems...than live with a boring car which will never break". I think thats one of the issues.


This quote should be placed at the top of the Vortex forums.


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## infinityguy (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*

vw s are the most reliable EVER > a friend of mine has one that is older than he is!!!!!!


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## vwlarry (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (Elbows)*

I've worked for car dealerships for years (Service Dept), and your observation about being within the dealer-environment souring you on cars a bit is v. true. If I didn't love cars so much, right to the marrow of my bones, I would have gone insane with emotional conflict years ago (instead of just being a neurotic car-nut as it is














).
VW is guilty of really not much more than being what it is...a fine _German_ carmaker. Once you get used to the fact that they (VW) really don't give a rat's keister what you or I think of their policies and practices...or, for that matter, their cars, either







, BECAUSE of their delightful _German-ness_







, and make your peace with the Wizards of Wolfsburg, it becomes a lot easier to just simply enjoy the best damned "people's cars" in this solar system.








_PS_: That remark in the previous post is amusing to me personally. I have _underwear_ that is older than most of the members of this forum.












_Modified by vwlarry at 4:09 PM 7-14-2004_


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## epmathis (Feb 8, 2002)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (Elbows)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Well said! I bought my VWs with the mind-set that they'd be less reliable than a Toyota, Honda, etc., but as far as styling, materials, handling, and feel, nothing else (IMHO) in the same price range comes close! BTW, my VWs have given me very little trouble (all minor issues).

_Quote, originally posted by *Elbows* »_
The weird thing is there are customers who come in smiling, and "loving their car to death" even whilst getting a transmission replaced, or...having a CEL turned off for the fourth time in two months. Its amazing how much people like these cars.
There was an article posted about some Customer happiness index - which was aimed at more overall pleasure with the vehicle. Volkswagen/Audi ranked 1st...and the summation of the article was "its better to have a car you like, with a few problems...than live with a boring car which will never break". I think thats one of the issues.
(steps off soap box)
Sorry, just wanted to chime in from this side of the fence.











_Modified by epmathis at 9:10 PM 7-14-2004_


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## vwdude53 (Nov 12, 2003)

you know, i'm sick of all this sh*t-talk about VW, i've had enough! the VW's i've owned have been no trouble at all, all that really matters to me is what i think VW is, and my VW's have been GREAT, and i will continue to buy them if that's what they are to me, not everyone else! that's what i have to say.


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## 20AE3600 (Jan 13, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*









Above is the actual data being referred to. I love my 20th..no problems so far, but I have heard stories from unhappy owners from the 2000 to early 2003 owners mostly surrounding coilpacks and window regulators.


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## urinal_mint (Apr 2, 2003)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sails180* »_Oh... The good news is VW impoved their scores from a year ago: The VW score improved 1.3% to 386 problems per 100 vehicles, placing it fifth from the bottom in the survey just behind Hyundai. Len Hunt, head of the VW brand in North America, said in a recent interview that VW is beefing up its attack on quality problems for both brands. Mr. Hunt also said VW has also created a "North American Quality Circle Jerk" including the group's top engineering executive to systematically address quality problems.
And that is why the survey is flawed...386 problems per vehicle...what "problems"? Is a broken door latch a reliability issue? Window regulators? Even the famous coil pack issue (which i think is the real reason VW is looked down on by the lemmings) is that really a reliablity problem, once fixed its ok. All european cars are kind of finnicky, but so are there owners. there are two sides to every coin.


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## kingcrimson (Jul 6, 2001)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (20AE3600)*

Also 365 problems per hundred vs. 207 is not that big of a difference. So maybe on average you've got almost twice as many problems. 
I think if you had 10x, then it might be an issue. My feeling is that distilling this chart down to a ranking is a big mistake, and tends to overstate the problem.
That being said, my previous VW was not in the same league as the three Nissan's I've owned (in terms of reliability). However, those cars were antiseptic, and in one case, simply dangerous. 
Even so, my current ride has been problem free so far, and I've got a better feeling overall about the car. The thing is almost organic, and is so well balanced in all aspects (i.e. handling, acceleration, braking), that I really have no desire for more.


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## VWTardis (Jun 27, 2004)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (urinal_mint)*

Let's see, one way of looking at the chart presented is that VW ranks near the bottom of the list. But another way is that VW has 141 more problems per hundred than Toyota and 97 more per hundred than the national average. Dosen't that translate to 1.41 more problems per car than Toyota or just under one more problems per car than the national average. As other people have said, VW's have European characteristics. Translation, treat them well they will do likewise.







Treat them badly they will turn around and bite you.


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## ihaveavr6 (Jun 10, 2003)

*Re: (sails180)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sails180* »_
Replacing a lot of window regulators... At about $650 for parts and labor that adds up to a lot of money! Also, if you're on a road trip or a long drive and it's poring rain or freezing cold in the dead of winter and a window regulator goes out in the down postion (like after paying a toll) that's an expensive pain in the a$$! 

damn i have been in jersey for a couple weeks and i just got the net again. i click on my recent topics and i see this one







. it looks as if someone i know has been screwing around on my vortex name. damn now i have to change my password.....again. and my opinion is that vws can have the tendency to break alot but if you know what parts tend to break and you keep up with them then you are good to go. i think it is all how you maintain your car. but some things cant be avoided like window regulators and such......


_Modified by ihaveavr6 at 2:01 AM 7-16-2004_


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## ezshift5 (Jun 26, 2003)

..don't know much about JD Power; I've an '82 VW Diesel PU w/285k on the odo......were a new one available, $20k of my Naval Reserve pay would zing VW's way in a proverbial "NY minute".............best, ez......


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## machine935 (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (Elbows)*

I felt moved to reply to this topic. I've been driving VW's since '85 and for the most part they have served me well even under extreme punishment







. My first car['80 Rabbit diesel] had problems with oil leaking back into the filter housing and causing sudden acceleration. That was not fun at all - cruising down the road then all the sudden the car just took off and left James Bond like smoke screens behind me. I laugh now but almost crapped myself when it happened.







My next car ['79 gas Rabbit] took most all the abuse a broke college student could throw at it. The water pump failed and warped the head. That was the costliest thing to happen to it. The rest I learned to live with. My '90 Fox I had no problems out of. My MkIII '99 Jetta GL had problem with the windows and the door locks. Minor problems to be sure. and to connect with another post it could be a pain in the butt. Getting from point A to point B via c,d,e,f,g, etc... was never a concern. My curent '03 Jetta GL 1.8t







I've had no problems out of. Thank you God for the small things... I've read Consumer Reports and for the most part they have had VW's number dialed for the past 2-3 decades. They do love the quality that Asian carmakers put out. The group that reads target market that reads CR seems to be oriented to spending their money wisely as possible[i.e. buy a car that won't cost a lot to keep up]. Would I like to see VW reviewed by CR as well as Honda or Toyota? Yes. Will that keep me from refering a freind to VW? No. Others have said that the asian cars have no appeal to them. I agree. I to this day have not found anything coming from Japan that excites me. I feel isolated and uninspired when in one.







The dealership closest to me isn't very fond of aftermarket parts as they have a prominent sign in the service department warning against using aftermarket parts and basicaly don't really make you feel that they are happy to see you.







I would agree that JD Powers isn't worth paying attention to. One can only hope that some day the people in Germany will figure out how to build a flawlessly performing vehicle.


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## 2003Sport (Dec 21, 2003)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (sails180)*

If you want some simple MATH have a look at this British survey based upon warranty claims not personal opinions. 
VW BETTER than average, Subaru third worst. 
TOYOTA 8th just ahead of VW 9th Best
WHO IS JD POWERS KIDDING? WHO IS PAYING THEM?
Golf twice as reliable as average, Polo FOUR times more reliable than average car!

http://www.reliabilityindex.co...8601#


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## 2003Sport (Dec 21, 2003)

*The truth about reliability is finally revealed!!!!*

It is clearly cheaper to own a VW than a Toyota!! Similar reliability but repair cost for Toyota is almost TWICE VW!!!!!!!!!!!!

 [URL]http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?searchtype=avgrep&apc=3128339010848601[/URL]


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## 2003Sport (Dec 21, 2003)

*Whoops try this link!*

http://www.reliabilityindex.co...48601


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## Xertes (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: (VWTardis)*

just to get in on the fray..... i have a 2001 VW Jetta TDI with almost 80,000 miles on it. i bought it in march of '03 with 56,000 miles on it. haven't had a single problem, except for the dealership screwing up when they replaced my timing belt and my dumb-ass running the car out of fuel and having to get a new fuel pump. granted, i am religious on the service schedule. every 5-6000 miles, my baby goes in for the recommended service, but she runs great, and i wouldn't trade her for anything in the world right now, except maybe a brand new porsche


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## lgl007 (May 25, 2004)

Hey guys... thought I would just pipe in here...
I have a 2001 GTI with 47,000 km's on it. So far trouble free with the expection of replacing two front headlight bulbs and one rear (pretty inexpensive), a free repair when my window just fell into the door one day (a few months ago) and a free repair when my sunroof would not close one year into ownership ;-P Those are the only problems I've had with my 1.8T.

Now mind you, I would not have bought the car had it not been made in Germany. Mine is one of the last GTI's, back then, to come off the German assembly line. /shrug not sure if it makes a difference or not ... 
Here's to keeping my fingers crossed and tapping on wood that things will continue that smoothly ;-)
Cheers....


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: VW tops the five worst cars for reliability (sails180)*

I think you are talking about this
Why is this not a surprise to me considering the experiences I've had with my local Volkswagen dealers? Sad but very true...
Quoted from
Newsday (New York)
July 21, 2004 Wednesday
NASSAU AND SUFFOLK EDITION
SECTION: NEWS; Pg. A08
LENGTH: 431 words
HEADLINE: RANKED NO. 1;
Lincoln, best in show;
For the first time, the Ford brand tops J.D. Power survey of consumer satisfaction with cars and dealers
BYLINE: BY TOM INCANTALUPO. STAFF WRITER
J.D. Power and Associates asked new car owners to rate the brands based on dealerships' quality of maintenance and repair work, timeliness of the work and in other areas.
Results based on 1,000-point scale.
BRAND OF CAR POINTS EARNED
Lincoln 912
Buick 909
Infiniti 908
Cadillac 904
Lexus 902
Industry average 862
THE WORST BRAND OF CAR POINTS EARNED
Volkswagen 754
Kia 786
Suzuki 809
Isuzu 813
Daewoo 821


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## R32Rich (Jun 13, 2004)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (Elbows)*

I know the feeling Elbows,
I worked at a Ford dealer in the accounting office. One of my jobs was to input warranty claim labor times into the computer from the work orders. I've seen it all also and cant believe how some of the stuff left the factory and dealer prep ( A Merc Tracer was brought in for running rough. The engine was missing a piston!!!). I've been into VW's since day one and never will own a Ford, but would be real leary if I had to.....


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## sails180 (Oct 3, 1999)

*Re: WHY JD POWERS IS WRONG (R32Rich)*

OK... What's the bottom line here? Some times you get lucky (you get a great reliable car) and some times you don't (you get a car with a lot of problems). So... Just go for whatever car that you like, but... Your chances might be better with a Lexus! Then again that would be boring.


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## 2003Sport (Dec 21, 2003)

Well no-one seems to be interested in the UK survey!. So the bottom line is believe what you want because all surveys are different.


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## nemo1ner (May 5, 2004)

*Re: (2003Sport)*

I own an 02 GTI with close to 50k. I bought it brand new and had problems as soon as I got it with the window regulator and had to replace my 5th gear. But I also noticed that once I started abusing it (as in, actually driving it), the problems seemed to go away. All my friends who rev the engine high, rip it at every stop light, and pull the e-brake at decent speeds, don't have any mechanical problems. Has this happened to anyone else? 
Maybe VW built their cars to be "driven" and not cruised at 35mph up and down your local main street. I mean, in the land of the Autobahn, I would think that you would need something reliable, and VW is the top selling car in europe next to the focus. 
What made me buy a GTI in the first place was when I was in Kosovo and saw an MK4 Golf, dirty and trashed, carrying 2 live goats in the hatch...from then on I was sold!








All cars will have problems...just ask yourself if you want to keep fixing a car that you don't like to drive in the first place, or one that you enjoy.


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## vwbrvr6 (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (nemo1ner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nemo1ner* »_I own an 02 GTI with close to 50k. I bought it brand new and had problems as soon as I got it with the window regulator and had to replace my 5th gear. But I also noticed that once I started abusing it (as in, actually driving it), the problems seemed to go away. All my friends who rev the engine high, rip it at every stop light, and pull the e-brake at decent speeds, don't have any mechanical problems. Has this happened to anyone else? 


I agree 100%, this has always been my reasoning as well, I have owned VW's for 8 years now, and I beat the living S#$t out of them. I have never been stranded in a VW, and they have all been problem free. I drive the hell out of my dad's '02 Passat at least 2 times a week, and the only problem that car has had was a bad radio. Seriously, if you don't drive VW's hard they will start to have problems.


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## nemo1ner (May 5, 2004)

*Re: (vwbrvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwbrvr6* »_
I agree 100%, this has always been my reasoning as well, I have owned VW's for 8 years now, and I beat the living S#$t out of them. I have never been stranded in a VW, and they have all been problem free. I drive the hell out of my dad's '02 Passat at least 2 times a week, and the only problem that car has had was a bad radio. Seriously, if you don't drive VW's hard they will start to have problems.

I see there are more out there that think that way! I guess that's what they mean by "Drivers Wanted". 
My pops has a 96 Audi A4...abuses the crap out of it and it has been driven from Florida to Canada more than I can count. The car still has the origional clutch still in it... at 115K! That's quite impressive.
Really drive your dub and it will treat you well!


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## rtmeikle (Dec 17, 2001)

*Re: (GTiandrewK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTiandrewK* »_
Hey girl,
try 15 times in 1 year.







VW even paid me 2months of car payments.
At the end, my beloved GTi had to go. I miss it but I don't miss the problems.


I think I need to start posting more in these threads. It seems like those with the most problems, understandably, post the most.
I have a '97 Jetta GLX, and it has broken down ONCE in 7 years, and even that breakdown (t-stat stuck closed) just meant letting it cool off and then limping it home to wait for me to change a $25 part with a few hours of labor. The car has over 115,000 miles on it and has never once failed to start or left me stranded. I'll accept a faulty power window in exchange for that kind of reliability.
ROB


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## 6cylVWguy (Jun 14, 2000)

*Re: (rtmeikle)*

I don't think any of you whiney VW owners know the definition of unreliable unless you have owned a Peugeot. My family had one. It died in our driveway at about 70k miles. It didn't get driven for about 2 months and ALL the fluids just leaked out. Never heard anything remotely close to this for any VW. Heck, my corrad sat for about a month and nothing happened. 
In any event, I have had arguements in the car lounge about JD Powers. I have come to some conclusions about this company. First, they rate the statistics out of 100 cars because the effects are much more dramatic than if they mentioned how many problems per 1 car. 1.13 problems vs 113 problems sounds vastly different. So there is a bit of drama queen in the JD Powers results. Secondly, because of this, most cars have between 1 and 2 problems per car, maybe 3, which to me isn't going to sway me one way or the other. However, for the automakers this survey may be helpful. I think JD Powers is far to general to be meaningful. My family and I have owned VW's since I was a kid. The first VW I recall owning was a new 86 Golf. We had that car for about 50k miles. Never recall it being a problem. We had a 1990 VW Corrado brand new as well. That car had two problems that I recall. One of the seams was splitting in the rear, which may have been due to a delivery issue and there was some computer problem that was quickly remedied. The car last 70k miles until my mom totalled it. We then had a 97 b4 passat wagon. That car cost quite a bit of money. It was not driven all that much and when we traded it in 6 months ago it had 40k miles. 
I have only had VWs since I got the license, except for the peugeot. My fox was great. Bought it at 30k miles and drove it till about 95k. A shock blew out, it needed brakes, and the exhaust manifold had to be replaced. Nothing really bad there and I drove that car alot. I had two Jetta also, which were mkII's and were just junk from the start. One was sold to me unknowingly as a totaled car, so I got rid of that. The second was a well worn coupe, which had a strong motor, but always seemed to need something small done to it. Then of course there is the corrado. A great car. It has needed a couple of small sensors and stuff, but has been a reliable car overall. I spend far more modifying it than fixing it. My current mkIV I have only owned for a few months but has been very reliable. I put 5k miles on it and now has a total of 80k miles. A very good car. Not to say it has been perfect, since it does have some intermittant power lock issue, but other than that, it works great.
I guess what it comes down to is I just don't care about the popular opinion of VW. I think both I and VW knows that there could definitely stand to be some improvements. However, the cars aren't remotely as bad as people make them out to be. Some of you work at dealers and are probably shaking your heads right now because you see much more than my piddly ownership experiences. However, VW isn't alone. There is a Benz service advisor on here with plenty of horror stories. As a natural consequence of working at a dealership you will always see cars broken down, and some cars will be repeat offenders. As such, comments like this will come from ANY person who works at ANY dealer. I recall reading a comment something to the effect that while the asians have better reliability, their service departments certainly aren't hurting for work. 
Everybody has problems, and right now, according to the numbers game, VW appears to have more than others. VWLarry is all but predicting the demise of VW. To be quite honest, I am totally shocked by this comment, espcecially from someone that has been around VWs for so long. As you said, VWs work on a rollercoaster cycle. I think VW is on the up swing personally. The press is loving the new T-regs and the phaeton (as evidenced by the current autoweek article). I think it is smart for VW to try and work out some of the mkV bugs first in europe than bring the car over here. To me this is a sign that VW is trying to avoid (not sure if it will work) the mkIV fiascos. BTW, what does it say when the Benz that the autoweek press people were given had a number of glitches, while the much, much, much newer VW had NONE! Yeah, ok haters, VW is the only brand that needs work. It's even worse that the respected MB had issues, they have been building these high end car for decades! You would think they got it right by now! 


_Modified by 6cylVWguy at 2:06 PM 7-23-2004_


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