# 1.8T vs VR6 in a MK1 GTI



## vce1232000 (Apr 10, 2001)

Doing research on both swaps.Whats your guys opinion? I have done bolt in swaps before.Just not in detail as these 2.Both are made pretty simple now with motor mount kits and such from aftermarket resources. 

Hows the handling going to be? 

Tuning ability of both? 

Reliabilty of both as a daily driver?


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## rstolz (Jun 16, 2009)

Handling and weight distribution are not an issue, in total after everything you do add some weight for a VR, but not as much as you might think, somewhere around 150lbs i thnik. This does vary though. The only time you'll notice the difference will be on track days 

The VR is probably going to be slightly more reliable, if only because you'll have a much simpler vacuum system and no turbo to worry about, but they have their own issues too. 

Power-wise the VR ranges from as powerful as a 1.8T to slightly more powerful... it all depends on which version of each motor you get. the VR ranges from 174hp-250hp (approx), the 1.8T ranges from 150-225hp. 

Same basic transmissions are available for either. Also any mounting/wiring management system you need will be fairly easy to source these days. 

Tuning will be easier on the 1.8T because it's just easier to tune turbo motors. But there is no shortage of tuning options for the VR either, it's just more hardware, less software. 

In the end it's really a matter of this: Are you a turbo guy? Or are you an All-motor guy?


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

the 1.8T has more resurces and parts suppliers 100 to 1. it is 183lbs lighter in wet trim over the vr(12v), takes up less space and is easier to modify for power and reliability for less money. it is simpler to work on and can be simplified when swapped into a MKI to make it even more efficient. 

it takes less to swap it into a MKI than a VR of any type and with software and exhaust you'll have to run to swap it, you'll already have a power to weight ratio over the vr swap. you can use any 4 cyl tranny with the 1.8t but can only use trannys for the vr with a vr. 

power to mg efficiency is better with the 20v. for example... i make over 450whp on 92 octane and can get 31mpg as my car sits, but i could get more with larger wheel/tyre setup...but when flogging constantly i get around 22mpg. still awesome... 

it's all in your hands, i have many friends who realllyyy know vr's and like me and my 20v, they have made it easy,simple,powerful and relaible...but it wasn't cheap. 

quality parts, quality work, and time and care. 


for instance 

2.8l 12v with software/exhaust in a MKI will be 165-175whp/tq(avg 155whp/160ft.lbs with jsut exhaust) 

2.8l 24v with software/exhaust 201whp/215ft.lbs(just exhaust 185whp/180ft.lbs) 

1.8l 20v with stg2 software and turbo back in a MKI 200-220whp 240ft.lbs(170whp 173ft.lbs just turbo back) 


now subtract the 183 or more depending on 2.8l 12v or 24v(more for 3.2l) directly over the front wheels. 


so it can go either way... 

the vr will make peak torque quicker but has no balls up top. the 20v can be made to do so, but will always beat the vr as far as bolt on power goes. add meth...large port head, race gas, etc. 

even if you say boost the vr, lets say supercharge it and go with an apr stg3 kit on the 20v. 

both will make about 300whp on pump out of the box..but the work you will have to do reach that with the vr is gonna be more than just slapping any sc on it. and, your still adding even more weight up front.. 


so i could go on and on, and give pros and cons for both... 


but 20v is fun. just with a stg1 flash for a wideband motor on stock ecu and turbo back..200whp 30+mpg easy to drive MKI..is breath taking.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

btw..my power levels i listed are the avg i have seen dyno'd over the years 


stock power you read for lets say the 12v vr6 is crank..not wheel. so 174hp it is rated at is crank..i have seen hundreds of stock or catback vr 12v's make 153-156whp, which ends up being less than a stock 20v from 2002-2005 which is usually about 160-165whp. 

and every pound is impacted more so in a MKI than you think. i lose 20lbs on my car..i can feel it...from full tank of fuel to nearly empty..it's noticeable


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

1.8t all day for the weight in the front end. 

iv driven vr swaps in mk2s, the extra weight does make it handle night and day different.


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

it sure does when you add fluids, the weight of the Trans, etc

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

i know for me i chose the 1.8t over the vr in my mk4 for that reason too. 

the 1.8t eight is primarly in line with the front drive axle and behind it. as apposed to my vr6 which has its weight infront of the wheels.


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## Nevaeh_Speed (Jul 9, 2004)

I have both... Both are fun, I would do the 1.8t just for the weight savings. I have a boosted mk2 vr6, fun as hell. But nothing is like a BT 1.8t, smooth a** power band.


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## CasuallyWreckless (Aug 27, 2007)

:wave: I'd like to see where you got your weight number vegeta... A Vr is only 70lbs heaver than a 1.8t from what I've always read. Both motors with full trimmings. Anything over 100mph in a mk1 stock form is scary. My mk3 walks flashed 1.8ts 1-mid3rd all day long until they actually can build boost. If your gunna go through the trouble and cost of a 1.8t I'd recommend a 2.0 ltr 16vt but at the same time it comes down to personal pref cause you could always build an aba 16v and have the n/a power of a vr too. With the 1.8t you'll have to run inter cooler piping as well so if your not fab sauvy your kinda fuked. 
At the end of the day it just boils down to personal preference and what you plan to do with the car anddd of course how deep your pockets are. There's plenty of cry's out there throwing down 350whp on just basic turbo kits. Your always gunna have the 1.8t>vr6 or vice versa battle... I'm personally a fan of the vr6 motor. To say there's a ton more mods out there for the 1.8t though is upsurd.... In my eyes I'd rather tune a 12v just for sheer simplicity in my eyes cause vr's are what I know... Plus 200$ for a chip vs 350+ for a flash...


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

i got my weight values from weighing them, not researching. i did it one day at one of my old dealers after work.

the 1.8t is superior because there are far more readily available with a larger denser parts selection of OEM and aftermarket, they are easily tuned, easily built and reliable as hell.

i've had 8v na/sc/T, 16v na/sc/T and 3.2l na and turbo, obviously a 20v as well.

still lvoe the 20v, though i miss 8v dearly and daily a MKIV R32 right now while my jetta is back under the knife for improvements.


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## CasuallyWreckless (Aug 27, 2007)

I'm just not a fan of em my Vr has never left me sit and its what I know. I'm not gunna down a 1.8t cause they're def fun when they're running right. Everyone I know that has em though is forever having coilpack problems or something. Its like a Vr though in a sense. If you know what to do like the wp ect as preventative maint. Its good to go:thumbup: I would like to see video of your car...


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

White car is a v8 M3. 2010 with ESS stage 2 supercharger making 501whp. I was around 420whp at this time, both of us on pump gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geV6fL2iTQg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## CasuallyWreckless (Aug 27, 2007)

Vegeta Gti said:


> White car is a v8 M3. 2010 with ESS stage 2 supercharger making 501whp. I was around 420whp at this time, both of us on pump gas.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=geV6fL2iTQg&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


Hahaha!!! That's sooo boss:thumbup::thumbup:


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## rstolz (Jun 16, 2009)

> still lvoe the 20v, though i miss 8v dearly and daily a MKIV R32 right now while my jetta is back under the knife for improvements.


Just plain curiosity here, which 8V do you miss dearly? Since you've run about every option, which was the most fun? 

curious since I'm still sitting on the old JH and 020 I pulled out of my swap car.


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