# 02A Dog Box gears?



## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

Who makes the strongest gears for an 02A? 

I managed to find a couple kits by SQS. A 5 speed and a 6 speed kit. 

SQS 5 speed: 
http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/325:420:dog-kit-02j-drag-vw 

SQS 6 Speed: 
http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/176:197:vw-gearbox-dogbox-racing-gear-transmission 

Also, found a 6 speed kit from Quaife. Can't seem to find much information on it either. 

Quaife 6 Speed: 
http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/products/qke2v 

Would it be cheaper to do an 02M swap instead? This would be for a turbo vr6.


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## Autoboost-tech (Dec 27, 2009)

LOL.....got ya thinking 

here's one http://www.samsonasmotorsport.com/index.php?21212203 

and more, scroll to bottom 
http://www.stationgaragearnside.co.uk/www.arnsidemotorsport.co.uk/info.php?p=5


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

Autoboost-tech said:


> LOL.....got ya thinking
> 
> here's one http://www.samsonasmotorsport.com/index.php?21212203
> 
> ...


 Got prices on those?


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

bumb


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## zakrabt (Apr 27, 2005)

Have you driven a dog box? You'd tons of money and time ahead by going with the O2M.


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

I was doing a little research and it seems that the dog box would be way cheaper and easier to do. An o2m would need to be rebuilt, an lsd added, and a fair amount of fab work to make it all fit. While with the gear set, all I have to do is replace some gears which is simple. Unless I can do all the o2m stuff for under $4500. 

Also, im sure I could easily learn to drive a dog box.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Roadhog_ said:


> Also, im sure I could easily learn to drive a dog box.


 keep in mind, that the harder you drive a dog box, the better they work. if you drive them easy (day to day driving) they suck for shifting. They also require frequent rebuilds. 

i'd only ever recommend a dog box for a drag or track only car. 

there are several syncro options out there, and that would be what i'd recommend.


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> keep in mind, that the harder you drive a dog box, the better they work. if you drive them easy (day to day driving) they suck for shifting. They also require frequent rebuilds.
> 
> i'd only ever recommend a dog box for a drag or track only car.
> 
> there are several syncro options out there, and that would be what i'd recommend.


 That's not true according to this video. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_1jO64tuQA


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Roadhog_ said:


> That's not true according to this video.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_1jO64tuQA


 how about you ask someone who isnt trying to sell you their product  

why not just go with a syncro box? (sqs, quaife, g-force, etc) ?


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> how about you ask someone who isnt trying to sell you their product
> 
> why not just go with a syncro box? (sqs, quaife, g-force, etc) ?


 Are the syncro gears just as strong?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Roadhog_ said:


> Are the syncro gears just as strong?


 Realistically once you get to the point of either failing, its due to flex in the tranny case. Axles are also more likely of a problem at that point as well (as are clutches). I'd definitely recommend a pinion cuff if your HP levels are that high. 

the AP/G-Force gears are in several 600Hp+ drag cars, and holding up fine.


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> Realistically once you get to the point of either failing, its due to flex in the tranny case. Axles are also more likely of a problem at that point as well (as are clutches). I'd definitely recommend a pinion cuff if your HP levels are that high.
> 
> the AP/G-Force gears are in several 600Hp+ drag cars, and holding up fine.


 well I'm just looking for something that can easily handle 400ft/lbs.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Roadhog_ said:


> well I'm just looking for something that can easily handle 400ft/lbs.


 then i'd just stick with stock gears, with a full face clutch, and a proper diff (peloquin, quaife, wavetrac).


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> then i'd just stick with stock gears, with a full face clutch, and a proper diff (peloquin, quaife, wavetrac).


 Pretty sure a stock geared o2a can't handle 400ft/lbs reliably.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Roadhog_ said:


> Pretty sure a stock o2a can't handle 400ft/lbs reliably.


 depends on how you drive it. there are lots of 500+ 600+ hp cars running stock gears without problem. 
and there are people that blow trannys with a k03. 

blown trannys are generally caused by the driver, not by the HP.


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

TBT-Syncro said:


> depends on how you drive it. there are lots of 500+ 600+ hp cars running stock gears without problem.
> and there are people that blow trannys with a k03.
> 
> blown trannys are generally caused by the driver, not by the HP.


 I just want something that I know won't explode if I decide to be hard on it.


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

TBT-Syncro said:


> depends on how you drive it. there are lots of 500+ 600+ hp cars running stock gears without problem.
> and there are people that blow trannys with a k03.
> 
> blown trannys are generally caused by the driver, not by the HP.


 After 10-15 or so runs on our dyno with a VRT and 02A with a diff (tuning standalone) 4th gear shed it's teeth...Right at the 400 WTQ mark...I just finished rebuilding a box from another VR with a supercharger (stg 2 or 3?) that shed 3rd..That was this week alone. My setup is @ 400 whp and 360 tq and I still went with an 02M from the get-go. Why anyone would knowingly run wayy more power than a trans is well known to handle thinking they are going to be the lucky one is beyond me. It's all a matter of time just like stock 1.8t rods on bt cars...


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

Roadhog_ said:


> Pretty sure a stock geared o2a can't handle 400ft/lbs reliably.


 :thumbup:


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Dubmekanik said:


> Why anyone would knowingly run wayy more power than a trans is well known to handle thinking they are going to be the lucky one is beyond me.


 because o2m gearing sucks, they're heavy, and have shift fork issues?  

i drove my AWD car with 500Hp/500tq for 2 years without problem. 

next step for me will be SQS or G-force gears. i want to avoid the extra 60lbs that an 02m brings at all cost (the only one i'd consider is a drp)


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

TBT-Syncro said:


> because o2m gearing sucks, they're heavy, and have shift fork issues?
> 
> i drove my AWD car with 500Hp/500tq for 2 years without problem.
> 
> next step for me will be SQS or G-force gears. i want to avoid the extra 60lbs that an 02m brings at all cost (the only one i'd consider is a drp)


 I agree with you on the gearing. The shift-fork issue is easily resolved, and the 60lb weight difference (if it is even that much) I feel is worth it. Lets not forget about the axles...Much beefier. What's the DRP out of, euro TDI? And then you still have to re-inforce the case in high hp apps...


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

TBT-Syncro said:


> i drove my AWD car with 500Hp/500tq for 2 years without problem.


 Yeah, but how *hard* did you drive it?


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

Dubmekanik said:


> Yeah, but how *hard* did you drive it?


 pretty much as hard as you can drive a car on dot tires on the street. the only way it could be abused more is with R compounds and a prepped track. Hell, i did do-nuts in a rock quarry with it. hehe


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## autoxtrem (Oct 6, 2005)

PAR-engineering.com now makes 02j gears here is what they look like 










Par Vs SQS you choose


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

what did you pay for those?


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## Autoboost-tech (Dec 27, 2009)

```
what did you pay for those?
```
 x2 
they don't list VW on there site! 

by the way! I have seen 02m swap kits if you will, with most the parts you would need to install one here in the vortex classifieds for $1300 on average, and fabing in some mounts should be easy! I thought you had a welder? as for the added 60lbs, if that much! I think would be needed for traction if you make that kind of hp! just my 2 cents!


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

Autoboost-tech said:


> I think would be needed for traction if you make that kind of hp! just my 2 cents!


 The other reason I am using an 02M (Haldex). That gearset is sweet looking.


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## zakrabt (Apr 27, 2005)

No matter how strong the parts are, if you abuse them they will break. It's very possible to be fast without being "hard" on the equipment. There is a definite technique to it and if not shifted with some finesse, a dog box will break quicker than a syncro box.


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

zakrabt said:


> No matter how strong the parts are, if you abuse them they will break. It's very possible to be fast without being "hard" on the equipment. There is a definite technique to it and if not shifted with some finesse, a dog box will break quicker than a syncro box.


 Very true...It just sucks when all you are doing is accelerating after already being in gear for a good 2-3 sec. and the gear just strips....(02A/J)


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## Roadhog_ (Feb 26, 2007)

zakrabt said:


> No matter how strong the parts are, if you abuse them they will break. It's very possible to be fast without being "hard" on the equipment. There is a definite technique to it and if not shifted with some finesse, a dog box will break quicker than a syncro box.


Yeah, but it's when you are in the gear that it will just break on you. That's no fun.


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## Autoboost-tech (Dec 27, 2009)

there's a a guy in the vortex classifieds selling a 02m with welded shifter fork pins, (the only known problem) and your choice of LSD, if assembled with a wavetrac it's $1770, that less than the cost of forged gears alone, parts only! add a LSD with the gear set and your over 3k for parts only, and still need to install! for less than parts alone and hope a modified 02a will work for your power level, you can have a better designed 02m with known needed upgrades and LSD all assembled, just get a few more swap parts and forget about your tranny problems for a long time! I think it would come out way less expensive and do a better job in the long run, plus shift like a normal tranny!


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## turbo toic (Aug 24, 2004)

well i have the aptuning 1-4 gear set for about 8 months and i love it cuz it sings to me:laugh:anyways ...i havent really tested 1st n 2nd do to wheel spin but i have done 3rd to 4th gear rolls on the highway with no problem shifting but i am only running 15psi..i havent dynoed it yet but i betting on the whp is around 420ish...im waitting on couple of parts and some slicks and than i can double the psi and see how the tranny will hold..thats just input..


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## zwogti (Jan 11, 2004)

^^^^^ you will be ok with 420 WHP, if you get a better tires just don't raize the boost


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

i just stripped my stock 3rd gear today  looking for whats best for the money out there...


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

We have two FWD 02M's fs @ the moment. One with a diff +fork mod, and one bone stock. Pm or call if you need one.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

what is actually needed to make an o2m work on a 12v vr6? havent really researched it... been looking at the 5spd SQS gear stack

-paolo


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## Bthornton10 (Apr 27, 2008)

Yeah I am having problems with my 3rd gear too. I have been looking at getting the 6-speed synchromesh Quaife gearkit for my 02a.


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## CorradoFuhrer (Mar 21, 2002)

I was driving my car at about 18 lbs of boost on green tops. I had a Passat 16v ayk. What are the chances a good used 02a vr say with the 3.67 r and p are going to hold up to whatever HP this thing was pushing? Over 350whp conservatively?

I'm debating having one more go with a non upgraded gear stack or rather a stock 02a. The close ratio was definitely a bad idea, wheel spin city. Of the two previous transmissions I had, this 4cyl didn't whine nearly as much. Not sure if that's good or bad.

If the third gear is sheered off (every gear works but third) can I drain the fluid get the nasty stuff out, and be able to drive it with out third? 

I took out first gear last time and it also got the r and p from the input shaft, but realized there was only about a quart of fluid left in there from a shady clutch install. (popped half shafts but I don't think refilled the fluid)


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## Dubmekanik (Apr 6, 2002)

Tq is what shears teeth not hp, so you should talk in tq. It also depends on how fast the power comes in. It also is highly dependent on how much traction you have, and what you use the car for, and of course how well it's maintained (proper and correct level of fluid). All that being said the 02A/J's are weak at those power levels especially in 3rd gear. Also , none of the gears should be noisy. If they are it usually means whatever gear was not replaced at a pair at some point in time. The only way I would feel "safe" running the trans missing a gear is if you were to disassemble it and remove all the shrapnel, otherwise you're just asking for more trouble...Which if you go to that extent you might as well fix the problem. No excuse for driving a car low on trans fluid either...Always check the levels on your own after having work done at a shop that isn't 110% trusted.


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