# "VTEC" for VDUBS (cont.)



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

As some of you may be aware, we stepped in the subject of doing a variable timing setup in a thread a while back. Just wanted to give those interested an update on whats going on.

With all that has happened in the last few weeks, things have taken on some unexpected turns, and we got sidetracked. I am now glad to say that we have managed to get things back to some reasonable order and have finally completed the contract agreement. The patent is currently pending, so now on to the next phase: development.

As of this writing, we are moving foward to do the blueprinting of the parts. Once we have something that we are happy with, we will make the prototypes for testing. Assuming things don't get dramatically worse than they already are, we anticipate the control testing phase to begin late Nov, running through to Jan, and the real-world testing sometime in Feb, or March. 

Now, just so there is no misunderstanding, The term VTEC, is what we've throw in because it is common and well known. But what we plan to offer is not quite like that. While VTEC utilizes two to three different lobe profiles on one bumpstick, requires some involved mechanical, electrical, and hydraulic apparatus, our conversion will not do that. The focus is not to vary the timing of the cam(s), but rather to alter the opening and closing function of the valve itself. For example, if the engine needs to retard the valve opening 10° and advance the closing 20° the valves will do that. If vise versa is necessary on the very next cycle, it can then do that. If timing requirements are different for each cylinder, it can accommodate this need as well. That means, the affect will be more seemless, and linear, as oppossed to the performance dips associated with VTEC in current d/b/f/h series Honda cars.
For those still reading, you may be wondering , "What about lift and duration?" Simple. Lift and duration for the most part, will mostly remain a function of the cam you utilize. In fact, we expect to run some cause and effect of this conversion with some of the more aggressive cam profiles (re: racing) available for the 8v. While it has not been quantified, we believe the conversion will allow the use of such unstreetable cams on public roads, because of the way the valve timing will work. As a primary part of the vvt, anti reversion is already factored in; effectively raising all around efficiency, while reducing some of the overlap during low speed driving or idle. This I think, will calm down a race-only cam a bit, as well as give the cam the freedom to stretch it's legs when time for hard accelleration. And I almost forgot, reduced emmisions, lower exhaust gas temps, and improved gas mileage (although I suspect that fuel economy will degrade anyway once one gets a taste for the extra tpower that the upgrade offers). I must stress, however, that even if this assumption is accurate, the race cam(s) are still designed for off-road use. You will need to use your judgement and discretion as to whether you use this type of compnonent or not (in conjunction with the vvt).

I will post further updates as they become availabe for me to offer. In the meantime, anyone having general inquiries can email me, or call me Mon-Fri during business hours. Please keep in mind, that I cannot provide specifics of the parts themselves. 

[Modified by usdm, 6:59 PM 10-5-2001]


[Modified by usdm, 7:00 PM 10-5-2001]


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

you should just stick a hot 276 cam on there and use that centrifugal cam timing gear set to about 10 degrees of advance at base. As the centrifugal forces cause the timing gear back to 0 degrees of advance, good low end and great top end. I think llew said they were around $300 qty 1


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## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (mrkrad)*

will this work with turbo or any other type of forced induction? are you allow to show any pic?


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## JettaGT (Apr 28, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

Sounds great - Cant wait to hear more!


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## TooLFan46n2 (Oct 18, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (JettaGT)*

Good to hear back from you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Keep the updates coming


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## 2.0 guy (Jul 21, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

It is very good to hear from u again. Thanks for the update. Many thought that was the last we would ever here from U. Anyways, I really hope this works out cuz the jetta will be paid off in feb. and the serious mods will begin in april.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (mrkrad)*

We considered doing the cam phasing gear first, but then scrapped the idea. When we originally researched the idea, we had in mind offering something strictly for performance gains. However, as time went on, the decision shifted to offering something that would provide efficiency as well. That focus is even more defined, with the times that we are in. With the threat of gasoline prices going through the roof, there will be a need for a product that not only addresses performance, but does so without compromising fuel economy. How well it will do in that aspect is hard to say since we do not have the means to accurately express it in hard numbers. But it is something that we will have to figure out sooner or later. With all that said, I will not reject the cam phasing gear as a viable alternative to what we have to offer; plus I can already tell you the gear will be cheaper. And I will not say ours is better than cam phasing gears, because i do not know. It is simply not the approach we plan to use on for the 8vs'.
I tried to retrieve the original thread concerning the effects of the vvt with F/I; can't find it though. I think there will be some benefit, but wont be certain how much until we start testing. To be honest, however, I do not see that section of testing to come for a while. But for perspective, I share this with you. The owner a Audi A4 Quattro, with no apparent malice, asked the question, "How can you justify pulling off the head of a 1.8T to make the power I can get from just buying a bigger turbo, or a chip for less money and time?" I didn't have a good answer for him, but I suggested this: the amount of power potential a motor has is almost always related to the efficiency of the combustion chamber. Improving combustion chamber efficiency results in an engine that can make as much power in stock configuration, with less mixture, or, make more power in modified configurations with close to stock mixture requirements. Side benefits could easily include greater resistance to detonation (although the motors are pretty sturdy off the shelf). It should be safe to assume, that investing the money to do this conversion first, could reap many benefits for an enthusiast that plans to either keep the car mostly stock, or plans to do more extensive work, while enjoying a cleaner, more driver friendly car. These ideas should be applicable to any motor whether 1.8T, 2.0T, or even 2.8Ts'
As for photos, I think I will have some ready in about a month or two.
But they will be for a finished product, and I think many will be quite surprised at what has been done. 
And, thanks for te welcome back, guys, but I really didn't go anywhere! Just didn't have much to say until now.



[Modified by usdm, 5:25 AM 10-6-2001]


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

can you give us an estimate on the final cost????


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

Originally, we anticipated cost around 600.00, but
we now think it can be done for about 500.00 or 
thereabouts. Nothing set in stone, yet.


[Modified by usdm, 1:56 PM 10-6-2001]


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

thanks a lot!!! It looks good ,but we would have to see the gains or whatever it adds to know if it is worth buying !!!


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

You should set up a mail list we can subscribe to so you don't have to rely on posting here. That way, you'll reach everyone who has the slightest interest enough to sign up. There are times when I don't make it here for weeks and could miss you all together.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (JettaRed)*

Mailing list sounds like a good idea. I will contact the webmaster about putting one
together. and I will repost the information to the various sites so interested folks can registter.


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## slmmr (Jul 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
i want one please!!!!!!! How much increase in horsepower to you anticipate?


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## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I am so intrigued about this..please add me to a mailing list if there is one!


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## Raff79 (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Red Baron Golf)*

This sounds good. I'd like to be added to the emailing list when,if it get started!!
Raff


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Raff79)*

Right now, the webmaster has the mailing list set up for manual input, so it would be time consumming to insert your information. Until he makes some changes, you can send me your email addresses, and I will place them on the list myself. Just so we are on the same sheet, we are doing the 2.0L's now; if there are any 2.8L guys out there, I would prefer you hold off until we start up on that. 
Email [email protected] , and just post "2.0 Vtec" in the subject. Thats all I need, and will put you in the mailing list. Please be sure to send me the address that you can receive updates to, as I ofen get email from folks, but they don't want me to email them back at the from address. It gets confusing after a while, and I may not be able to contact you with news.
The mailing list for the 2.0L will give me an idea of how much interest there actually is, and could possibly factor into the end pricing of the parts to you. The more folks that are interested and willing to invest in the technology, the lower we can *possibly* get the price down. 




[Modified by usdm, 2:41 PM 10-16-2001]


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## 2.0 guy (Jul 21, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Come on 8 valvers, this is a band wagon up all need to jump on http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## H2oVento (Mar 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

What applications will this be for.. MKI's, II's, III's IV's? When do expect to have it on the shelf for everyone to buy. Just a ball park.. and will you offer a big discount to all us vortexer's who have been waiting for this.. I thought we would never hear from you again.. that this was another dead pipe dream.. Glad to see it comming together.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (H2oVento)*

*What applications will this be for.. MKI's, II's, III's IV's? When do expect to have it on the shelf for everyone to buy. Just a ball park.. and will you offer a big discount to all us vortexer's who have been waiting for this.. I thought we would never hear from you again.. that this was another dead pipe dream.. Glad to see it comming together.* 
93-98 2.0 8vs' first, then we work on all other applications that there is a demand for. We are looking at mid to late summer for the parts to be available; pending the outcome of the controlled and real world testing. This is of course will change based on the results, and how much time I have to take off due to other obligations (NRG Tek is currently my 8 hr daytime "hobby", my real job is working at a hospital).
As for a big discount, I don't know. This is something that I am personally taking on myself, and I am not getting support from anyone else really, so obviously I cannot be too generous. But I can probably swing something for Vortex.


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## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Keep up the good work, and please keep us updated. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (slmmr)*

*How much increase in horsepower to you anticipate?* 
I now think I was a bit too optimistic about the overall potential when I originally posted. Only because the original testing on a 2.0L 8v DSM motor showed such incredible gains, and because I think the VW motors are more eficient, due to the crossflow head design. I should have known better than to base the power you could get as a comparison to an earlier Japan-spec motor. But then again, there was no other reference of value. So, this is an updated guesstimate.

As always, potential will be dependant upon a car's given state of tune. However, It is assummed, the conversion will result in a very *conservatively estimated* horsepower enhancement in the range of 5-16%, and an average torque increase in the range of 7-22%. Also, a slight improvement in fuel efficiency, and a reduction in exhaust temperature in the range of 2-10% (although not scientifically proven or quantified as of yet). All of this is in combination with improved starting performance, throttle response, etc. It is also believed these numbers can be reasonably attainable while reducing mechanical stress. Please note that the numbers are based on a stock motor configuration, and are intentinally vague until we start the testing in full.


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## queue (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Maybee I missed something here, but how are you going to accomplish this variable timing?
You are using the standard cam? then how do you advance or retard each cylinder _individually_ since the cam is rigid (which fixes timing relatively) ??
I could see having some kind of device on cam gear to move the whole cam forward or backward, and thus moving the power band around... but then each cylinder is still fixed relatively.
I really don't see how you can accomplish this without doing Electronic Valve Control (which would be a technology breakthru!)
Please, more details on how this works!I am really interested in how your design works







, more than how much power you gain.
regards.


[Modified by queue, 12:29 PM 10-19-2001]


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Verruckt)*

Thanks. I will be emailing you a little later on, if you don't mind. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (queue)*

*Maybee I missed something here, but how are you going to accomplish this variable timing.........* 
I don't really know what else to say, Queue, but I believe it can be done. What I would ask you or anyone else reading this to do, is to join the mailing list. Just email me, and put 2.0L vtec in the subject. You don't have to do anything else, I will put you in the listing, and as I have more new information to post, everyone will get it (and hopefully share it with other folks). In fact, I expect to have the first maliing response going out to the list probably by early-mid Nov. I expect that it will give you all more detailed information on what is being offered, as well as hopefully a photo of the product itself. Getting on the list is the best way to get that information; because, this thread will probably disappear from the database when there is no more new postings.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (queue)*

Queue, and others, let me first apologize for being so curt. Something had happened, and I was just trying to deal with it. I had a chance to read what I wrote again, and felt maybe I was not too polite. So I will answer your question as best I can.
*You are using the standard cam? then how do you advance or retard each cylinder individually since the cam is rigid (which fixes timing relatively) ??* 
Answer to the mystery: the change is not occurring at the cam, it is occurring right at the source, which is the valve itself. There is no other way to continuously change timings on a cylinder by cylinder, cycle to cycle, basis. So, in theory (for now) *almost* any hydraulic lifter 2.0L 8v cam could be used, whether it be a stocker, mild, or a more aggressive cam profile.
*I could see having some kind of device on cam gear to move the whole cam forward or backward, and thus moving the power band around... but then each cylinder is still fixed relatively. I really don't see how you can accomplish this without doing Electronic Valve Control (which would be a technology breakthru!)* 
I think I touched on the cam phaser early on, but let me eleborate more. True, it can move the power up and down the rpm band , but everything is still in a semi fixed position. The degrees at which opening and closing occur is close to, if not exactly the same. For example: if the gear is advancing opening @ say, 5 or 10 or 20 degrees, during any given portion of a cycle, it will also advance closing @ 5 or 10 or 20 degrees, respectively for that portion of the a given cycle. So, sometimes the engine does not "see" the fill rate it wants for good power stroke, or better all around efficiency. If the opening and closing events are relatively the same, then there is also the possibility that the valve closes too early or too late. 
If the valve opens too early, inert gasses can work their way up the intake port to mix with fresh intake charge during the exhaust stroke, or, the exhaust will scavenge some of the fresh intake charge in addtion to inert gasses during the exhaust stroke, or the very intial stages of an intake stroke. 
When the valve closes too early, the fresh charge will not fill the cylinders for optimum powerstroke. 
If the valve opens too late, you still run into the problem of filling the cylinders with fresh intake charge during the intake stroke. 
And if the valve closes too late, fresh intake charge will try to work its way back up the intake port during the compression stroke. 
These are some of the critical issues to consider if you want to buy one of these gears, and you are trying to run anything too aggressive over a stock or mild street cam. Once again, this is not meant to discourage anyone from buying one of these devices, but investing in some dyno time would help insure you extract the most power and efficiency that you can. 
Now, as for implementing electronic valve control, it is a possibility, but don't count on it coming to an 8v near you anytime soon. What we are offering is not the cheapest thing, but the cost for an electronic valve control would be prohibitive. And right now, it does not appear that it will be used on anything that has less than 12-16 valves. 
Forgive me if some this does not make sense; I was up too early this morning....











[Modified by usdm, 1:12 PM 10-27-2001]


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## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Thanks for the great answers. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Verruckt)*

I just submitted an email to all who were kind enough to take some time and contact me. I suspect that the information will be analyzed, thought about, argued over,or just plain dissmissed. It may even find itself here on Vortex. But as I mentioned before, I think many will be quite surprised at what has been done, as well as answer the question of how the variable timing can be accomplished on an engine such as the ABA. Anyone else that wants to see what we are working on, just email [email protected] with *2.0L VTEC* in the subject. Nothing else needs to be done, unless you have a question I can answer. I will send you what I have put together for the moment. Still haven't been able to get the list together however







Thanks again for your time and consideration. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




[Modified by usdm, 9:31 PM 10-27-2001]


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I received your e-mail and let me tell that was some good explanation. Now I understand how it works. Pretty simple setup. If it performs they way it should, I will probably buy one if it's a resonable price. 
Thanks again and keep up the good work.


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## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

A very interesting email. If you have not joined the email list yet, you should.
Thanks for the new info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Verruckt)*

Thanks for the recommendation. 
The image in the mail is just a sample of the part we are working on, so there may be some slight differences, but none that would be glaringly apparent. It's just words now, but I have no doubt in my mind that this works, and works well. A similar part has already been tested on a Harley Davidson, and the torque was quite impressive. I don't have the hp gains however; I will try to recover those when I can. The graph for the motorcycle will be on the next mail posting.
The expense of designing, machining and testing are starting to kick me in the tailbone, and I expect that if I do the CARB, that will probably yank my spine out through my left nostril. This is why I really needed a good consensus to be sure doing the 2.0L application would be worth it. So far, I am satisfied that it is. Hopefully you guys will feel the same.
As for the price, I will definitely try to do something for the Vortex members. Currently, end cost will be around 490.00-520.00. The discount I hope to offer Vortexers' will be lower, but it will be for a limited time, and will require a good amount of folks to get in on the discount in order for me to offer it. 
I know to some of you, it may seem much for what we are offering, but keep in mind that this is a unique system. It is one of the few items I believe, that can grow with a variety of modifications you do to the car. The potential savings in fuel economy, and a cleaner, smoother running car (stock or modified), means that it could easily pay for itself in less than a year after initial installation. In terms of performance curves, I am convinced that it will provide smoother, more linear gains, unlike the spikes and dips above and below the power curves that you tend to see with some other modifications. That is because, the conversion is affecting the cycles, across virtually the entire functional rpm band, from idle to the functional redline. Most parts you install (intakes, exhausts, cams, camgears, chips, etc), affect only a small portion of the powerband, and almost none of these, by themselves, affect all of the band in a productive way. Also, there is a possibility that the conversion may very well eliminate some of the other peripherial parts that folks have purchased, because there no longer may be a need for them; the conversion will take care of the issues that were some other part's priority. This is the only mechanical system that opreates based on individual, cylinder to cylinder, cycle to cycle demand. And best of all, it will not cost an arm and a leg (although I'm sure some will disagreee).

Sorry about the ramblings. I get excited sometimes when I talk about this. Please email [email protected] , and don't forget to put to *2.0L VTEC* in the subject to get the current information. Thanks again to all you who have responded, and hope to hear from more of you very soon. 



[Modified by usdm, 11:27 AM 10-28-2001]


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I am sending out the second section of the general and technical information on the conversion. Once that goes out, anyone else that requests information, will receive both sections in one mail. It is a little image intensive, because I am not too good with putting these emails together. If you have problems, just give me a shout, and i will see what I can do.


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## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

This is exciting...may the force be with you!


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

wow !! I received the second email and this thing is awsome!! Did you see the increase in performance of the Harley Davidson!! Imagine the increase on our 2 litres. I'm sure it would make more power associated with a cam than the Neuspeed charger alone. I'm so looking forward to see this thing on the market!!!
Keep up the good work Usdm http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

The gains were very impressive. But keep in mind, that different applications will reap different results. As can be seen on the Harley with the CV carb, the gains were not nearly as big, but who knows what might have happened if the vehicle had some miles on it, and some mods. Personally, I think that the 2.0L will do quite well. 
Also, I got an email this morning from one of guys, (thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ). It concerned the sizing issue. I want to be clear, that the size we are currently working on, is the 40mm, not the oversized at 42mm. Once we know that there is going to be a large demand for the 42mm, we will start working on those. But for now, it will be the 40. 
I don't expect to post too much else here until this weekend, so once again please feel free to email me for inquiries, or to get the information that I have been submitting. [email protected] , and put *2.0L VTEC* in the subject. Thanks for the positive responses guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Talk to you later. 




[Modified by usdm, 2:05 PM 10-29-2001]


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

thanks man!!!!


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## dcvento (Aug 1, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

does porsche do something like this?


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (dcvento)*

Porsche offers a system called Variocam, but it is not similar to the vtv conversion, due simply to it's complexity. As quoted through one of the technical sites, "It used timing chain to vary the phase angle of camshaft, thus provided 3-stage variable valve timing. 996 Carrera and Boxster also use the same system. This design is unique and patented, but it is actually inferior to the hydraulic actuator favoured by other car makers, especially it doesn’t allow as much variation to phase angle."
Also of note for the updated information, "Variocam Plus used in the new 911 Turbo finally follow uses the popular hydraulic actuator instead of chain. One well-known Porsche expert described the variable valve timing as continuous, but it seems conflicting with the official statement made earlier, which revealed the system has 2-stage valve timing. 
However, the most influential changes of the "Plus" is the addition of variable valve lift. It is implemented by using variable hydraulic tappets. As shown in the picture, each valve is served by 3 cam lobes - the center one has obviously less lift (3 mm only) and shorter duration for valve opening. In other words, it is the "slow" cam. The outer two cam lobes are exactly the same, with fast timing and high lift (10 mm). Selection of cam lobes is made by the variable tappet, which actually consists of an inner tappet and an outer (ring-shape) tappet. They could by locked together by a hydraulic-operated pin passing through them. In this way, the "fast" cam lobes actuate the valve, providing high lift and long duration opening. If the tappets are not locked together, the valve will be actuated by the "slow" cam lobe via the inner tappet. The outer tappet will move independent of the valve lifter."


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

So much for not posting until this weekend.......
As far as the Vario is concerned (or any other variable cam system), part of the emphasis has been towards altering lift. Based on my research and inquiries to some folks in the field of automotive engineering, lift has a little less importance than the ability to alter the openning and closing of the valves. This is where the emphasis is on the conversion we are offering. And once again, while the conversion can help with lift, it will be more of a function of the cam that you use. So, there is a very good possibility that you can use a more aggressive cam with a higher lift and duration, yet still have some decent drivability on the street.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*






















Forgot to mention something else....
As you look at the graphs, the one for the DSM was done on an engine dyno, so the gains will be less than on an inertia (dynojet) dyno. The runs for the two Harleys are gains at the wheels. Also, the first Harley dyno just shows you the torque increase, I am unable to locate the hp. The second Harley (wih the CV carb), shows both hp and tq curves. 
Just so there is no misunderstanding.




[Modified by usdm, 6:16 AM 10-30-2001]


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## H2oVento (Mar 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I am on the mailing list.. this should be great with my forced induction project... turbo, No2, and VTEC all in one dub..


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (H2oVento)*

HHHmmmmm. The next level for us *could* be development of new combustion chamber systems that work in conjunction with the conversion, or without. Much more expensive stuff, and down the road, but I am starting to look into possibilities.


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## terrorontheturnpike (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

hey souds interesting ill keep my eye on this .... but please dont ever use the "H" word (hond*)....ouch!!!!

96 vento , its getting there.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (terrorontheturnpike)*

The only real disadvantage that the ABA has, is 8 valves vs 12, 16, 20 valves, and not enough tlc. That notwithstanding, I think we can start evening the playing field a bit once we begin thinking about improving the combustion chamber and it's support systems. Some may laugh, but I can see a day the 2.0L seriously challenges a few of these other cars, be streetable, and still pass the sniff test......








And I didn't use the word Honda once............










[Modified by usdm, 6:09 AM 10-31-2001]


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## greenveedubb (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

You guys are doing both ABA's and AEG's right now?


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (greenveedubb)*

ABA right now. I would have to cross reference the AEG for compatibility. If there is no match, then AEG would become another application that has to be developed.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

This is not directed at any one person. I have gotten so much mail over this (which I do appreciate), that at times it can get a bit overwhelming. I wasn't even aware that this had started to trickle out beyond the 2.0 X-flow, and 2.8 12v folks until this week. Still playing catchup with so much of the stuff now....
Because of the design of these parts, each one *must* be built from scratch. Trying to do this with an existing part, will seriously compromise structural integrity, and the overall performance (one of the big reasons I am not a fan of cam regrinds). Each size has to have individual tooling set up for it. Add some pre-requisite testing, etc, and it costs for each additional size/ application. Even going to an slightly different sized part for the same engine, costs a good amount of money. This is the main reason I need a good consensus to do any size or vehicle application. Until we can establish a better relationship with the manufacturing side, I can't afford to put money into a part size that will not get a lot of support behind it. Not yet anyway.



[Modified by usdm, 6:12 PM 11-1-2001]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I am going to send another email tonight or early tomorrow. Another set of graphs, and a little rant. I think this might be of more interest to some of you than the Harley, plus the images are a little more viewable. This will probably be my last mailing for a while, probably until we start the dyno tests, or I have something else to share with you guys. 
Once again, if you haven't already, I encourage to you and other 2.0L 8v enthusiasts, to email [email protected] and put *2.0L VTEC* in the subject. Nothing else is needed, unless you have an inquiry. Even if you do not have the ABA, please feel free to submit, and get the mailing. It is very possible, that with enough support, we will be on our way to doing some of the other 8v motors before we jump on the 2.8 12v http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
[Modified by usdm, 8:08 PM 11-3-2001]


[Modified by usdm, 8:14 PM 11-3-2001]


----------



## VDUBIN (Jun 28, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I have tried several times to send you an E-mail, only to get a mail account password request. Do you by any chance have another e-mail address I can send to? if not add me, my address is [email protected] 
Thanks man...


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (VDUBIN)*

Ok, there seems to be a problem there then. So Then just click on the user name, and then click on the email address there. That will open up the email for you. Sorry about that.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Ok, it is corrected. Please accept my apologies. 
[email protected] *2.0L VTEC*


----------



## Chris Salazar (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

all i want to know is will i be able to put it in my mk3 golf and still go turbo? if you have answered that already, can you still tell me cuz the post are way too long to read all of them sorry







thanks


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

What about a G60 head


----------



## H2oVento (Mar 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (SSj4G60)*

I can't wait to see if this is the real deal.. I mean once it is up and running, and some people slap it on there cars.. Could be big...


----------



## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (H2oVento)*

if this thing can bring an n/a 2.0L to 160hp with bolt on mods i'll be so happy... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Chris Salazar)*

quote:[HR][/HR]all i want to know is will i be able to put it in my mk3 golf and still go turbo? if you have answered that already, can you still tell me cuz the post are way too long to read all of them sorry







thanks[HR][/HR]​Should not be a problem, but will not know the effects until testing.


[Modified by usdm, 7:41 PM 11-5-2001]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

quote:[HR][/HR]if this thing can bring an n/a 2.0L to 160hp with bolt on mods i'll be so happy... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif [HR][/HR]​160 engine, or to the wheels?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

quote:[HR][/HR]160 engine, or to the wheels? [HR][/HR]​I am sure he means engine and not at the wheels. But even that would be almost a 40% gain from the stock 115. 
Personally I would be extatic if with the VVT kit and simple things like exhaust, cam, intake, and software would get me anywhere near 150hp at the engine.


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Verruckt)*

I'm so exited and looking forward to see this thing!!! I can't wait!!! I'm sure it will be good!!


----------



## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

This has prolly been covered but will this vtec work better with a big cam or a moderate cam or even a stock cam? will it allow us to use a bigger cam for turbo application? the reason i'm asking is that if some of us wanna get a cam now and still use it with the vtec. Right now I'm thinking a 268 cam is perfect and allow u to keep stock valve springs and retain good idle and torque. But I dunno how it will react with the vtec though.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Verruckt)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I am sure he means engine and not at the wheels. But even that would be almost a 40% gain from the stock 115. 
Personally I would be extatic if with the VVT kit and simple things like exhaust, cam, intake, and software would get me anywhere near 150hp at the engine.[HR][/HR]​I'm thinking that 160 would be a wee bit optimistic. And I'm leery about guessing how close to 150. 
One of the Harleys that is on the road, has headers, very unreasonable cams (257 grind), and 10.CR pistons. Its baseline went from 61 hp and 82 lbs-ft tq, to 96 hp and 111 lbs-ft tq. And the A/F ratio is very near Stoichiometric at WOT. Yet, the exhaust temperatures did not go above where they were in stock configuration. So it is hard to say from one application to another what the gains will be. Once again, though I am confident that they will be good.


[Modified by usdm, 4:15 AM 11-6-2001]


----------



## H2oVento (Mar 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Now were all just dreaming.. 150-160.. Hell I would be happy with 20HP over what I have now.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

quote:[HR][/HR]This has prolly been covered but will this vtec work better with a big cam or a moderate cam or even a stock cam? will it allow us to use a bigger cam for turbo application? the reason i'm asking is that if some of us wanna get a cam now and still use it with the vtec. Right now I'm thinking a 268 cam is perfect and allow u to keep stock valve springs and retain good idle and torque. But I dunno how it will react with the vtec though.[HR][/HR]​From what we've seen, it will work with stock, moderate, and big cams (see my last post). I personally am interested in what happens when we try a 288 with the VTV. Should be interesting if I can get it done.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (SSj4G60)*

quote:[HR][/HR]What about a G60 head [HR][/HR]​Have to check on that. I will post a list of the models and years covered beyond the ABA, if there are any. Otherwise they become new applications to be developed.


----------



## H2oVento (Mar 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Hay if I buy this can I get some cool VTV stickers to go along with it? No really when is your next E-mail going out.. i belive I signed up for it, but have gotten Nothing... 
[email protected]
I am excited about this my turbo and No2 all comming to gether at the same time.. I sohould have no trouble putting 200-250 HP at the wheels.. There is another $800 bucks for the LSD.


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (H2oVento)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Now were all just dreaming.. 150-160.. Hell I would be happy with 20HP over what I have now. [HR][/HR]​Well you just simply stated the exact number I said I would be extatic with. Keep in mind these numbers are not at the wheels we are talking about at the crank. 
If you take what the crazy numbers that the tuners say that each of their mods will give you and cut them by at least half you would most likely be in the 130hp at the crank range. Using the following mods of course, which if actually gave what the tuners claim then you would already be near 150. But we all know this is so unrealistic that it is not even funny.
Chip (software)
Suggested Gain 10-12hp - Real world probably closer to 6hp
Cam
Suggested Gain 8-10hp - Real world closer to 4hp
Exhaust
Suggested Gain 10-hp - Real world closer to 3hp
Intake
Suggested Gain 5-8hp - Real world closer to 2hp
See this would not be outrageous to think that you got 15hp more at the crank with such mods. So if we add an additional 20hp at the crank with the VVT then that puts us at my extatic number of 150. 
115 + 15 + 20 = 150hp
Which still may be a total dream, but what the heck sometimes dreams do come true.












[Modified by Verruckt, 12:14 PM 11-6-2001]


----------



## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

quote:[HR][/HR]From what we've seen, it will work with stock, moderate, and big cams (see my last post). I personally am interested in what happens when we try a 288 with the VTV. Should be interesting if I can get it done.[HR][/HR]​will there be any valve spring upgrade needed or do you only need it if you are using big cams? Higher rpm cam+springs+vtv+chip...yum
Honda's with vtec and higher redline makes simply adding a header, intake, exhaust into a 20+hp gain...while vw poorly benefit from these type of bolt-ons. Theoretically, the vtv should creat a bigger gain from simple bolt-on's.


[Modified by 87GolfKart, 12:41 PM 11-6-2001]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (H2oVento)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Hay if I buy this can I get some cool VTV stickers to go along with it? No really when is your next E-mail going out.. i belive I signed up for it, but have gotten Nothing... [HR][/HR]​I was thinking about having something to offer as a special designation (plaque, sticker, etc). But we haven't actually given the part an official name for it to be recognized as. Maybe if it works out well, we'll call them the HOLY $#!T valves. Just pondering, you know....
The last mailing was sent on Saturday; has the LT1 graphs, and the Rube Goldberg stuff. If you have that one, then you're current.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

quote:[HR][/HR]will there be any valve spring upgrade needed or do you only need it if you are using big cams? Higher rpm cam+springs+vtv+chip...yum
Honda's with vtec and higher redline makes simply adding a header, intake, exhaust into a 20+hp gain...while vw poorly benefit from these type of bolt-ons. Theoretically, the vtv should creat a bigger gain from simple bolt-on's.[HR][/HR]​It is open to debate, but if you are running anything over .430" lift, you want to consider doing the hd springs. And theoretically, I would agree; you should see a bigger gain from simple bolt-ons. 
As for benefit, keep in mind most Hondas have 16vs, VW ABA has 8. Plus the later model Honda engines breathe pretty well in stock form, and do rev very high, but it takes some work to get any real power out of them. Honestly, if you are modding a 4th gen Civic/ CRX, maybe you could extract near to 20hp with those mods, but good luck trying with the later models.



[Modified by usdm, 1:11 PM 11-6-2001]


----------



## The_Hamster (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

what about the g60 head? i missed what it's all about. 
the g60 head is basically the same as an early 8v head, it is not crossflow, just made out of different material to withstand higher heats.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (The_Hamster)*

Have to check on it.


----------



## greenveedubb (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

How much hp are we talking about from stock?


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (greenveedubb)*

quote:[HR][/HR]How much hp are we talking about from stock?[HR][/HR]​Right now, that is the only hard answer I do not have. Gains varied significantly on
the test mules. The samples range from an aprox. lowend 7hp/ 13 lbs-ft tq, (CV Harley) , all the way up to 20hp/ 44 lbs-ft tq (LT1). These results were on unmodified cars with stock motors. So, I would guess that the ABA will fall somewhere in between the 2 shown. 




[Modified by usdm, 1:09 PM 11-7-2001]


----------



## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

only 20hp from an LT1? Seems like it should push out more power then that considering the engine size...maybe it's been push hard to the max from the factory already? Cuz the harley's 7hp increase doesn't seem remotely too far away...but you did say the LT1 was stock...prolly it will benefit a lot from som K&N and freeflowing exhausts...like 40-50hp...15-20 for the stock 2.0L would be bareable for me...that plus cam's and other mod, chip, would put it around 150hp at the crank crank...just a speculation though
are you guys considering any idea for a chip to optimize the vtv?


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

Keep in mind, that the efficiency was also raised on LT1. It is not just providing more power across the entire usable band, but it is also improving gas mileage. Very few other mods you do will raise both the efficiency and give good fuel economy. The torque did go up quite good for just that modification. So you're looking at a situation where the response is much more trick in low and high gears. This is only a piece of the puzzle in terms of performance. You wont really reap maximum benefit of this component until you start factoring in other parts, intake exhaust, etc. 
A chip is being considered, but that will come later. I am personally thinking that we will reach to one of the established tuner companies to aid us in that area. 
One thing that I didn't mention, is that in a few cases, ignition timing was ramped down a few degrees from stock. The intake charge was doing such a complete and fast burn, that the stock timing was producing negative work. It is not unusual to mess with timing in certain cases to make power. But to retard a naturally aspirated motor in an almost stock configuration, and *still* make more power, was contradictary to a few things that I grew up learning.




[Modified by usdm, 4:50 PM 11-7-2001]


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Usdm, when are you starting the testing on the 2.0L engines????? For when the first dyno graphs??? 
thanks bro!!!


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

I just got some interesting news, and I am waiting for confirmation before I release it. The news may affect when the dynos will start. I should know more by Sat evening. Hopefully I'll have an update to mail out then.


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Thanks man!! If this performs as it is expected, I'm telling you that you will become a vw god to all of us with 2 slows!!!!!!! hehehe keep up the good work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and some beer


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

*Head starting to swell, then back to reality.....*
I wouldn't presume anything over the achievements of the real VW tuners. I would reserve the position for someone else. But it's nice to be appreciated.


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

hey your welcome, but I still think this will be a big revelation!!! Thanks for putting your energy in something like this. Don't worry it will reward you at the end!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## greenveedubb (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

usdm,
when is the project be revealed? any projected date? Thanks


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (greenveedubb)*

usdm: So did you receive the confirmation for the news?? When are you sending the next update???


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (greenveedubb)*

quote:[HR][/HR]usdm,
when is the project be revealed? any projected date? Thanks[HR][/HR]​Not sure what you mean. Did you get the previous emails I sent out?


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

quote:[HR][/HR]usdm: So did you receive the confirmation for the news?? When are you sending the next update??? [HR][/HR]​Check your mail. Just sent something out.


----------



## Myron (Apr 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I have been following this thread for a while. Very interesting information. Based on what's been provided so far, I would venture to say this "new system" is something I looked into about 2 years ago with a company called Acro Tech. The system was called the vented valve system. At that time the owner of Acro Tech was not interested in pursuing any aftermarket applications. He was trying to get a license agreement with Harley Davidson. The first automotive application for the vented valve was simple 8v Mitsu. The valve has a smaller valve in the base of the valve face which is actuated by a spring inside the valve stem. When the valve is actuated the smaller valve opens as well. This almost negates the air flow reversion back through the runners because the A/F charge no longer hits on the back face of the valve which not only allows more air into the cylinder, but actually creates a swirl of the A/F mixture for a better burn (lower exhaust temps). Acro Tech was also able to lean out mixtures because of the better burn characteristics created by the vented valve. This allowed for better mileage and more power throughout the rev range. The only modification that needed to be done was the widening of the valve guides by 2mm to deal with the larger valve stem. I still have my notes from my discussions with Acro Tech.
If this system is the same one designed by Acro Tech, and if it's done correctly, it should provide the performance boost that N/A people were looking for with all of their other common bolt on's. 


[Modified by Myron, 1:21 AM 11-11-2001]


----------



## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Myron)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have been following this thread for a while. Very interesting information. Based on what's been provided so far, I would venture to say this "new system" is something I looked into about 2 years ago with a company called Acro Tech. The system was called the vented valve system. At that time the owner of Acro Tech was not interested in pursuing any aftermarket applications. He was trying to get a license agreement with Harley Davidson. The first automotive application for the vented valve was simple 8v Mitsu. The valve has a smaller valve in the base of the valve face which is actuated by a spring inside the valve stem. When the valve is actuated the smaller valve opens as well. This almost negates the air flow reversion back through the runners because the A/F charge no longer hits on the back face of the valve which not only allows more air into the cylinder, but actually creates a swirl of the A/F mixture for a better burn (lower exhaust temps). Acro Tech was also able to lean out mixtures because of the better burn characteristics created by the vented valve. This allowed for better mileage and more power throughout the rev range. The only modification that needed to be done was the widening of the valve guides by 2mm to deal with the larger valve stem. I still have my notes from my discussions with Acro Tech.
If this system is the same one designed by Acro Tech, and if it's done correctly, it should provide the performance boost that N/A people were looking for with all of their other common bolt on's. 

[Modified by Myron, 1:21 AM 11-11-2001][HR][/HR]​very interesting....i hope this stuff will help take those "8v is inferior to 16v" thingy off our shoulders...it seems like until now...unless u go forced induction on our 2.0, the 16v, 1.8T, vr6, always have the better hand with bolt-on's...thus why the 2.0L forum became a semi forced induction forum as well


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Myron)*

Must have deleted my post by accident.
Yes, the company is the same one. They're busy with the motorcycle work, but they agreed to help us develop kits for automotive applications.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

quote:[HR][/HR]very interesting....i hope this stuff will help take those "8v is inferior to 16v" thingy off our shoulders...it seems like until now...unless u go forced induction on our 2.0, the 16v, 1.8T, vr6, always have the better hand with bolt-on's...thus why the 2.0L forum became a semi forced induction forum as well[HR][/HR]​Unfortunately, there's always going to be a bigger dog on the block. But once we get it all sorted out, I think there will be a more even playing field for the 8v. That is, until we get a lot of calls for the 12, 16, and 20 valvers. Then the fight for "top of the food chain", will start all over again. 


[Modified by usdm, 5:46 AM 11-12-2001]


----------



## teflon-raider (Sep 17, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

16v vultures.....arg.....


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (teflon-raider)*

The circle of life....
8vs, are walked by the 16vs, who are torqued to death by the VR6s', who in turn are buzzed by the lighter 1.8Ts', that eventually overboost, and go into spectacular modes of failure. And as the 1.8T hobbles back to the shop for repairs, and Vagging, it gets overtaken by a lowly 8v on another mundane grocery run; unaware of the 16v laying in wait just past the offramp......


[Modified by usdm, 10:02 AM 11-12-2001]


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## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

quote:[HR][/HR]The circle of life....[HR][/HR]​I like that so much I am going to quote you in my bio http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Verruckt)*

Groovy. Take it, it's yours.








Uh, can I get a free hat for that one?


----------



## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

If I werent just a lowly moderator I would gladly, but unfortunately I have to purchase the hats and shirts just like everyone else.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Verruckt)*

I had not planned to post this here, but I felt it was better this way. I do not expect to post very much more on this until we are full in the testing phase. Thanks to all those who participated.
The first head we aquired was warped so badly, that milling it to work, would have skewed any accurate numbers we expected to get, as well as raise up the compression beyond the stock specs. We're hoping the next ones, will be in better shape.
The testing is expected to be conducted at an undisclosed location of our choosing, and to insure an unbiased testing can be done. 
Since we originally posted what were doing on Vortex, we have had our share of critisism. Even when it was negative, I still looked to the productive portion of the comentary. Lately it seems that things have taken on a darker edge. I did not intend to bring this up, but I do not know what to do as I have never been in this situation before. 
We have now been "advised" by phone, and email, not to go fourth with the developing and manufacture of the conversion. I wont name drop, since we do have existing relationships with some of the busineses directly, and their distributors. I do not have actual proof of who is doing this, but my suspicions are leading me in a direction. 
It just may be an elaborate prank, which I am hoping for. If it is, I would just say to that person, good joke, but time to stop now. 
If it is from one of these companies, it means certain someones' are afraid that this will be incredible, or that we may threaten their command of the market with our products. I can't think of any other explanation for what is happenning. If these folks really believe there is no value in this, it would have already been expressed, or disproved. And I am sure there would have been some explanation as to why. 
Just for the record, it is not our intention to topple anyone's status, or to take away from anyone's achievements. It has been my contention for some time, that the conversion in concert with other modifications, could seriously improve the overall performance of the engine itself. And in fact, this conversion is something that will do well by itself, but will show a greater value when it is used with other products. 
We are a small company. We do not have the credentials of other players in the industry. Our marketing strategy is non existent. We can't pour hundreds, let alone thousands of dollars into advertising or PR. Hell, I had to sell my project car just to initially fund this program. We are in essence, no threat to you or your business whether you care to believe it or not. But make no mistake. This will be done. And if this turns out well, it will be offered to almost any group that has a demand for it. NRG Tek, and I, individually, have no interest in making enemies of anyone here in the hobby, or the maketplace. But I will not be intimidated to cease this. I've invested too much, and been through too much stuff to see this fall through the cracks. 
If you want to discuss this in a more civil fashion, you have the number and the email address. Dont' call my my family's shop to harrass them. It is me that you need to talk to. Don't hide your identity as it will be found out soon enough. Let's be grown up and discuss this like professionals. 
That is all I have to say on the matter here in the open. 



[Modified by usdm, 7:53 AM 11-18-2001]


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

well said usdm!!!!! don't let anyone scare you!!! I know you can do this and you will. Stay on course and everything will be find!! I can't believe those p*ssies have the courage to do this sh*t. If they are man enough, they would talk to you personnaly!! If I were you, I would tell the Police that you received some harrassing phone calls!! Anyways I hope everything will go as planned and good luck in everything that you do!!! It will reward you at the end!! Trust me those people are just jealous!!!
see ya and cheers


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## 87GolfKart (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

It's greed that is the main obstacle for innovation...people who truely loves technologies would encourage reasearch and development for the sake of innovation.


----------



## Red Baron Golf (Jul 18, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (87GolfKart)*

Hey usdm we're all behind you man...don't let this thing die just because some joker is afraid of what you are doing!!! You're onto something really cool and that's why it's happening I'm sure. But we'll be there for you when this thing finally takes off, which it will because it's the 'will' of the Dubbers!!!


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Red Baron Golf)*

Thanks guys. And I've got the long arm of the law looking into this garbage now. Anyone that requested the mailing this weekend or this week, I have not sent them out yet. I will not be sending anything out until the end of this week. Sorry for the delay. If you have two emails with images, and the last one with just text, then you'r pretty current.
Ever heard the term, "May you live in interesting times"?
For the guys that got the 3 emails already. Remember the LT1 graph in the mailing ? I forgot to mention that the testing was done with 82 octane fuel in the motor, under full load. 
Just a little something extra for my "friends" to chew on.
To all you Vortexers', have a great turkey day. Keep both hands on the wheel, not on your girl, and definitely not on the alcohol!







X







=











[Modified by usdm, 12:44 PM 11-21-2001]


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Hi Usdm!! I"m glad you are taking care of the mess that happened to you. 
I hope they catch that bastard!!!








Anyways thanks for everything you do and keep up the good work.
About the LT1, hmmmmm I wonder if you put 92 or 94 octane fuel in there








Anyways bro have a good thanks giving and don't eat too much turkey, it's bad for your cholesterol


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (vento 95 GL)*

Nope, 82 octane used. Honest to goodness.
The LT1 testing evaluated among other things, how CR affects the release of pollutant emissions. Also, remember that this was done with a stock motor. If the ecu was optimized to work with the valves, we expect even more power could be realized with emissions still at safe, legal levels. To make the story short, CO went down by about 50%, HCs' down by 35-40%, and NOx down by about 5-7%. 
Have a great holiday once again.







-







=










[Modified by usdm, 11:14 AM 11-22-2001]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*VTEC" for VDUBS (the last long @$$ post from me for a while)*

Hey guys,
Since I started this thing on Vortex, I have been getting a lot of feedback. Thanks, and keep it coming.
Even though I think the mailings sent out give a good overall explanation of the 
conversion, some of you feel that you're not quite getting it. This I hope will clear things up a little more. I am not going to have a chance to mail this out to you all, so I will post it here. 
The valve in the picture is basically the same as what you have in car right now. The difference is that this valve is _*designed*_ to use an auxillary floating seat. The seat is part of the valve, not part of the head. The term "floating seat" is given, because basically, it floats between locking in place on the back of the valve, and floating back towards the intake track. But it always stays on the valve. 
A good analogy is to look at the child-proof caps you have on medicine bottles. You've probably pulled on the cap once in a while to see what kind of play the cap has. Now, imagine that the bottle itself is the valve, and the cap is floating seat. As you pull up and down on the cap itself, make a mental note of the amount of lift that it has in relation to the bottle. That free-play in the cap is what would be considered the "limited independant lift profile" of the floating seat. It is this lift that allows the seat to move back and fourth on the valve. 
Now, there were some inquiries about the gas ports. Once again, the gas ports are in the valve itself, and not the head. The next paragraph will try to explain a little more whats happening.
In the current VTV configuration, the floating seat, acts as wind catcher, for a lack of better words. When the pressure of the cylinder is greater than the pressure from the intake track, the pressure slips around the valve, and through its' gas ports to push the floating seat back towards the intake port. Once the floating seat reaches the fixed seat on the port, it effects a closing event, even if the valve itself is still in an open position. At Vice versa, when the pressure in the intake track becomes greater than the pressure in the cylinder, the floating seat moves off the fixed seat, and mates itself to the backside of the valve head, effecting an almost instant opening event, even if the opened valve has yet to supply and new intake charge. The gas ports help bleed out any gasses that would keep the floating seat from mating with the back side of the valve when needed. The same actions apply to the exhaust stroke, where you can have both intake and exhaust valves open at the same time. Because the pressure in the cylinder is rising due to the piston trying to push out the inert gas, the floating seat stays on the fixed seat. This has the effect of elimintaling or reducing the amount of exhaust gas that finds its way into the intake track. Also, the gas ports help release the gasses that may become trapped as the valve closes back onto the fixed seat. This in effect eases both the shock of the closing event, and also relieves the valvetrain of internal stresses that it would normally see if just using a regular valve.
Because the floating seat is so light, it can move as fast or faster than the valve itself in either direction, based on the demand. This creates the almost instantaneous opening and closing event that is so desirable in combustion activity. When the seat close againts the intake port, it prevents fresh charge or inert gas from back-flowing up the port (also known as reversion). When the low pressure or vacuum in the intake port is replaced by higher pressure from a fresh charge, the floating seat now mates to the backside of the valve. It is the pressure differential of the intake and cylinder that dictates the floating seats function at any given time during the 4 stroke cycle.
"How does this increase efficiency?"
The name of the game is to increase (or prevent the loss of), the volume of fuel that gets into the cylinder, and reduce the amount of exhaust gas that reverts into the intake. In order to do these two things, you must be able to accurately control when the intake valve opens and closes. Once you can optimize the opening and closing events at almost any useable rpm, you have the potential to make more power with what was available in the first place, or make more power with even less, because the quality of the combustion improved. Hence an increase in efficiency- or, the ability to raise output without significantly raising fuel or air requirements
"What about using bigger cams?"
To help understand the possible benfit, here is an example. The stock cam has a lift of .401", and duration of about 201 degrees. Lets say you want a lumpier cam with 460'" lift, and maybe 245 degrees of duration. This cam by itself, makes for a less docile idle, and around town driving is a chore. Now add the VTV to the mix. If the VTV has a limited independant lift profile of .045" , subtract that from the 460". It now ramps the cam down to a theoretical 415" lift at low rpm and speed. Lets look at the duration issue. Duration is somewhat effected by lift, so if you reduce the theoretical lift profile of the cam, you can also reduce the length of time that the valves stay open, because the opening and closing are altered as a function of the conversion. The VTV allows (in theory), the ability to run a racier cam, while retaining some drivability. The car is always "on the cam", but the VTV conversion helps to make the motor act as if it is running a stock one at low speeds and rpm.
"What about running a turbo or supercharger?"
Lets try another quick analogy or experiment. We have a bottle that we are going to fill to the top with seltzer water. As the seltzer fills the bottle, the air in the fluid starts to expand, and forces the fluid out of the bottle. Now try to close the bottle to stop the seltzer from flowing out. If you're late, you cant stop a lot of it from spilling over the table. If you're too early, you were probably too scared to fill the bottle to the top.








This is a sloppy rendition of what happens during the forced induction event. A lot of intake charge is forced into the cylinder. But as the piston rises, the forced charge wants to get out. Where does it go? If the valve closing is late, the forced charged backflows right up the intake port. If the closing is too early, you cut off any additional fresh charge from squeezing in the chamber. 
Back to the experiment. Now you have a cork in a bottle with the small end facing up, so it closes the bottle from the inside. Lets fill that bottle with seltzer water again. As the fluid rises and the air expands, the cork continues to ride the top of the fluid until it reaches the lip of the bottle, trapping all the fluid trying to get out again. You may lose a little of the seltzer water, and you may not fill the seltzer all the way to the top, but the bottle will fill up more, and you will not lose nearly as much as before. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
This is a sloppy rendition of the floating seat responding to the increase in the pressure differential between the fuel being forced in, and the cylinder pressure rising as the piston starts on its way up. You retain more fuel in the chamber to burn, and of course, the more fuel, the bigger and better the burn, which we all know equals more hp and tq. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
"What does it mean?"
For the NS sc user, it _*could*_ mean being able run harder without trying to raise boost (and we all know roots blowers are notorious for heating up an intake charge). It also means that someone running a mild turbo setup, 
_*could*_ theoretically get close to the kind of power that you would expect from a "stage 2" (?) kit.











[Modified by usdm, 8:15 AM 12-3-2001]


----------



## greenveedubb (Aug 21, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

great info, usdm! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## swiffer (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (greenveedubb)*

Keep up the good work. The 8v's need it!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## queue (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

thanks,
have you started dyno testing?


----------



## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (queue)*

very good info as always bro!!!!! keep up the good work!!!!!


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (queue)*

quote:[HR][/HR]......have you started dyno testing?[HR][/HR]​With all the crap going on, everything got pushed back. Looks like it wont happen until Jan or Feb. I had hoped to at least have some initial results sooner. Proof once again, that nothing ever goes as you plan. Sorry about that. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
The good news, is that we have now established an exceptable independant lift profile of about .055". So that's about .010' greater than we had originally expected to run at. This gives a higher cam profile that we can play with, for N/A applications anyway. We could very well look at running a cam with higher than .460" lift; maybe up to .488' in lift. Of course, once you start to get into those higher numbers, everything else has to be in order: intake, exhaust, some porting, etc. And we're still talking about a street driven vehicle, mind you.



[Modified by usdm, 4:02 PM 12-3-2001]


----------



## queue (Oct 8, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

usdm I have one quick question about your design... In my understanding the cams are designed, in part, so that the valves dont slap against the head when they close... instead they close with a nice soft decel, so that they aren't damages by the impact of closing, which could cause long term ware.
So my question is, if these floating seats close and open purely on pressure differentials (is that right?) then what controls are there to give a nice smooth close/open action... or are they light engough that smooth action is not necessary?
I raise this question because I read some tech papers on electronic valve control, with solenoids, and this was a big problem to overcome.
regards


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (queue)*

The floating seat has no real effect on the movement of the main valve; it only aids in varying opening and closing events when the intake valve opens too early, too late, closes to early or too late. 
The valve does have some effect on the floating seat movement, because the floating seat is attached to the valve. The seat's movement is not totally independant. Otherwise, we could run a much higher independant lift profile for the seat since it would not be controlled by the valve, per se'. 
But because the seat is is controlled to some extent by being attached to the valve, and is both lighweight and strong, it can move quickly and smoothly, without any adverse affect. 
Hope that answers your question.


[Modified by usdm, 2:53 PM 12-4-2001]


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

have you been able to figure it this will be available to the G60 brethen your fellow 8vers , difference is the intake is on the back of the head, i dont really know any other differences


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (SSj4G60)*

We can do almost any application, *if there is a strong enough demand for them *. If you think there may be some *serious* interest among the other G60 owners, they have to get back to me and let me know. 
If there is to be any feedback on this, probably would be best to set it up in the G60 forum. I've already been accused of spamming the other Vortex forums, so you or one of the other guys will have to be the point man on this one. Or just have them email me and put *G60* in the subject, if they want the mailing. Nothing else is needed. That will work too.
We will only be doing stock sizes for now; no oversizes.




[Modified by usdm, 7:42 PM 12-8-2001]


----------



## jwatts in Germany (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Neat threadhttp://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . Saw an article on the vented valves in "Hot Rod" magazine a while back. One of the problems they mentioned was lubrication of the floating valve. How is this being dealt with. Is it an issue anymore?


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (jwatts in Germany)*

The problem with the original was not so much lubrication. The problem was deciding appropriate clearances since there were more moving parts. Also, the manufacturing would be more labor intensive, it was not as effective in controlling closing events, and would probably be manufactured from titanium to reduce the weight of the assembly, while keeping it durable. If we were to offer that, the cost would be significantly higher since titanium is not cheap, but is expensive to work with. 
After discussing with the designer, it was agreed that the current approach would keep the costs down, since it doesn't compromise any gains that could be had with the original, and is believed to be more flexible in terms of working with other aftermarket parts (cams, headers, SC, etc). 



[Modified by usdm, 6:39 AM 12-10-2001]


----------



## jwatts in Germany (Dec 7, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Keep the good stuff coming. Anxious to see the dyno results when you get them


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (jwatts in Germany)*

I'm hoping for a target time of late Jan, or early Feb to start the preliminary work. Should have been much sooner, but stuff happens.


----------



## X-FlowA2 (Nov 12, 2000)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

If you need a donor car let me know!


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (ilovemy92gti)*

I am going to work on putting together a little site so that you all don't have to get the mailings. It is actually becoming harder to keep up with the inquiries now. I will try to keep the content as close as possible to the mailings I have sent out. If you didn't get the mailing yet, they are either on the way, or I will just refer you to the site when it is up. 
I still encourage any and all seriously interested to email me with your request, if any. I understand that testing has not been done as of yet, but I am even more convinced that this will produce some very positive results. Just a serious leap of faith based on what i have already seen. 
Right now the ABA is a go, and the AAA is *almost* locked in, so the ABA guys don't have to submit email expressing interest. Do so only if you still want the mailings before I get the site up. As for the rest (16v, 1.8t, etc), I am not asking for any pre-orders, even though I could probably justify doing so now. I just want to hear from you. Once the two initial motors are done, I make no guarantees any more will be worked on. 



[Modified by usdm, 6:53 PM 12-12-2001]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

I am now looking for a nice VW A3 picture to post on the site. Preferably an action shot (on the hwy, that sort of thing) Picture could be straight on, 3/4 profile front or rear, or full profile. Clean as possible. I have been doing a search, but I have not seen anything like that. If I get a few good ones, I may just cycle through them each month or so. Haven't decided yet. Any suggestions or direction would be appreciated. The owner of the car must be willing to allow release of the image, as I don't want to take upon myself to just steal one. Would not be right. I cannot promise the owner of the ride full credit on the site, but I am sure it will be seen and admired by all who visit. That much I can promise. 
Thanks


[Modified by usdm, 6:40 AM 12-13-2001]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: VTEC" for VDUBS Website*

The site is almost ready. Should be up and running by next week. It will be a somewhat condensed version of the mailings, but I will leave some of the more technical stuff inthere for folks to look at. If you haven't gotten the mailing yet, just wait for the site to come up. Figure after Christmas, or thereabouts.
I still encourage everyone to continue emailing me. You will not get any mailing, but it will give me an idea of who else beyond the ABA guys is interested in this.


----------



## Chris Salazar (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

i hope people don't abuse these stickers in the way i've seen the "VTEC" and Type R" stickers abused!!!!



































i'm sure everyone feels the same way!!


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## Chris Salazar (Jul 20, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Chris Salazar)*

i was talking about the earlier post when they mentiond vtv stickers, i know it came out the blue, sorry


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Chris Salazar)*

I'm not certain if there will be any stickers offered for this. There might be a logo for the company, but I think the conversion will probably stay stealth for now.
As I am on the subject of the conversion, I went out on another limb, and did some pre-test guesstimates. Based on the results seen so far, there is an average increase of aprox. 10-15% hp, and 20-25% ft/ lbs torque with the conversion. So, for the ABA, we are now looking at roughly 120-126 hp and about 140-146 ft/ lbs of twist. This is on an otherwise stock motor. Deduct for drivetrain losses. There is a lot of debate as to what the wheel power is for these motors, so I leave that up to the big brains here to figure out.
I know it may not seem like much, but keep in mind, this just a piece of the performance puzzle. You can expect better performance and drivability with the addition of other prerequisite go fast parts.



[Modified by usdm, 5:07 AM 12-19-2001]


----------



## Mike eee (Sep 16, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

You say you are not going to work on any motors after the initial ones are done? Whats the verdict with the vr?


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Mike eee)*

I think I have enough response from the 12v VR6 folks to justify doing them. But I am afraid of going back there to post some more, since I was accussed of spam or cross posting or something like that. My only hope is that the VR guys will stumble across this here, and email me with their interest. 
Doing finishing touches on the site... be ready very soon


[Modified by usdm, 5:50 AM 12-21-2001]


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## Cosmic631 (Jun 3, 2000)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Cool- still very eager to see how this turns out


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Mike eee)*

quote:[HR][/HR] You say you are not going to work on any motors after the initial ones are done? Whats the verdict with the vr? [HR][/HR]​Just so there is no misunderstanding, I will be developing as many applications as possible. How ever, I will only do the ones that there are a demand for, or the ones perceived to be of significant value to a particular individual or team. Since I have gotten a lot response from the ABA guys, and a bit from the AAA guys, those VW applications are pretty much a done deal. I have not heard much from the other folks, beyond the G60 camp, so I will not go out and try to do something "just because". Maybe later when there is more demand, but there is no guarantee of that either.
In actuallity, there are other applications in the works, but I cannot discuss them as per written agreement. Unlike the ones I am doing, these were already paid for by outside interests. These conversions are for specific purpose, and will not see mass production. And none of them are for watercooled VWs'. 



[Modified by usdm, 3:22 PM 12-22-2001]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (Cosmic631)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Cool- still very eager to see how this turns out







[HR][/HR]​Soon. very soon.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

The website should be up and running Wed. I thought it would be up sooner, but I am all alone now, and I am doing all the stuff by myself. I will post the address this coming Mon. Sorry for the delay.



[Modified by usdm, 7:58 PM 12-29-2001]


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (usdm)*

Hows it coming along


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: "VTEC" for VDUBS (SSj4G60)*

Was in an accident a few days ago, so I haven't really done any work. Still licking my wounds.
The basic site is complete, but not showing up yet. Address is down below. Phone number is still the same.
ABA valves are being manufactured, and should be ready shortly for testing soon.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*So, nothing ever goes a planned....*

So, this is where things stand as of now...
Almost ready to start the next phase which is the testing. In an effort to accelerate things a little bit, I am going to ask one of you to make a great sacrifice for the "cause". I am going to donate *1* kit to be installed on a member's car for real world and dyno testing.
Whomever gets this task will be required to read and sign a contract/ release statement. The terms and conditions will be listed therein. 
I would prefer to have a car as close to stock as possible, but will make an exception under certain circumstances. However, the car must use the stock wheels and tire size for the dyno testing. If you don't have these to use on the car, you will not be considered.
The person that gets considered will have only one job; drive the car. You will need to send me feedback (positive and negative) about how the car feels, CELs encountered if any, and other stuff I will go over with you. 
You will be asked to keep any information concerning agreements as well as the donation and testing, to yourself. You will share any and all information concerning how the car runs with me and me alone. No posting here, or on some website about how it is a POS, or the next best thing to sliced bread. Just keep all that within our confidence. After completing a portion of the testing, I will then release the gag order from you, and you can rant or rave all you want. Also, until completion of the entire the testing phase, your personal information will reamain personal. You will not get any public kudos; only the dyno evaluations will be your legacy. In return, you will have a freebie on me, and my deepest gratitude. Its' not much, but give me a break, I am poor.
At this time, I will gladly accept any and all serious ABA folk looking to volunteer their car. However, I will not make any decision until the parts are in hand, inspected and ready for the workout. Please do not ask me when are the parts going to be ready. The machine shop that is doing them just landed a contract to do work for some big race team. So my "little project" has been s#!t canned for a few days. But I have been promised a small discount on a portion of the kits being made, hence the generosity. 
Under the table bribes will get folks considered quicker than others. Of course, if you have a really hot sister in late 20's-early to mid 30s' that is unattached, not crazy, and thinks short fat guys are really sexy, you may be given even more consideration. j/k about the sister part .... unless you really have one.......
Please email me with your contact info and model year (this covers 93-98 only), mileage, and any mods you may have. NYC folks can call me direct, or leave a message as I wil be in and out most of the day.


----------



## za'afiel (Jul 4, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

you have mail usdm


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## Residentevol (Sep 19, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (za'afiel)*

sorry if this has been addressed already but is there any idea as to what the ball park price would be for this mod? Im really interested in it I think its a great idea just want to know if its something ill be able to afford..I emailed you recently to ask for information also.


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## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (REDMK2GTI)*

I cant wait to hear how things turn out. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Raff79 (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Verruckt)*

Can't wait to see what this will do with a cam!!!


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (za'afiel)*

quote:[HR][/HR]you have mail usdm[HR][/HR]​I didn't get it. Try again.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (REDMK2GTI)*

quote:[HR][/HR]sorry if this has been addressed already but is there any idea as to what the ball park price would be for this mod? Im really interested in it I think its a great idea just want to know if its something ill be able to afford..I emailed you recently to ask for information also.[HR][/HR]​Aprox. 550.00 dollars as of now.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Verruckt)*

I'm extremely impatient.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Raff79)*

Cam stuff comes later on in the testing. I anticipate doing dyno runs for the cams as well as real world driving. But the amount of cams tested will be fairly small, figure about 2 of the more popular ones, and 1 of the more extreme ones. The rest I leave up to you guys to experiment with when it is all done.


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## za'afiel (Jul 4, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

I tried the nrgtec.com and the bverticals.com address. I'll send again.


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## za'afiel (Jul 4, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

Ok, well if the mail doesn't work again, here's my details.. I'll volunteer.
I have a '95 golf 2.0 I drive it 20 miles a day, (3/4 on freeway and 1/4 on side streets) only mods are a eurosport exhaust and itg intake. I run on the stock wheel and tires for the year 95. 185/65/14. The car has 56,000 miles on it and just had it's 60k tune up.
I can install the beast myself or have it done by a shop, and I think I could find a dyno close to do before and afters.
Let me know what you think.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (za'afiel)*

Sounds good so far. But lets see how this shakes out with more folks.
And until the other site is squared away, use this email address:
[email protected] 


[Modified by usdm, 1:02 PM 1-11-2002]


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

Heres an address for anyone to go to if they haven't already gotten the mailings. Nothing fancy, just the info. I will try to update it as often as time allows me.
http://www.aatap.bigstep.com/


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

Hi Usdm, good to see that the work is going forward!! I'm anxious to see the results!! Keep up the good work!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BlooBeetle (May 7, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (vento 95 GL)*

So will this bad boy work with my NS SC?


----------



## 95jetta2.0 (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

check your box for my email. PLEASE CAN I HAVE IT?? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (BlooBeetle)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So will this bad boy work with my NS SC?[HR][/HR]​I believe i will. Later on, I will probably want to have a dyno run with the conversiona dn the SC.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (95jetta2.0)*

Not sure if I got the email. When did you send it, and via what address? IM me if you need to.


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## 95jetta2.0 (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

I have sent another email
hopefully it has gone threw. if not, this is me:
95 jetta III 40th anniversary (spelling?) edition
no engine mods, no other internal mods. 
105,000 miles , still very strong. 300 miles a week driving.
no money to bribe you with, just alot of road testing. 
email: [email protected]


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## BlooBeetle (May 7, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (95jetta2.0)*

I am:
1998 Beetle
Stock except for Ns Sc and snorkel removed.
50k miles


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (95jetta2.0)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have sent another email
hopefully it has gone threw. if not, this is me:
95 jetta III 40th anniversary (spelling?) edition
no engine mods, no other internal mods. 
105,000 miles , still very strong. 300 miles a week driving.
no money to bribe you with, just alot of road testing. 
email: [email protected][HR][/HR]​Ok, I think I got it. Sorry about that.


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (BlooBeetle)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I am:
1998 Beetle
Stock except for Ns Sc and snorkel removed.
50k miles[HR][/HR]​Got it.



[Modified by usdm, 6:56 AM 1-15-2002]


----------



## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

Ok, guys. Something needs to be emphasized here. In order to be considered, you have to have access to a dyno facility, preferably a dynopack or one that can monitor steady state operation, not just wide open throttle. If you don't have access to one in your area, then that will knock you out of consideration as well. So far that has knocked out about 10 of the 30+ people that have inquired about this. 
And if any of you guys call, and get the NRG Tek answer machine, just leave a message anyway. I haven't made time to change it yet.



[Modified by usdm, 7:20 AM 1-15-2002]


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## 4-door crap rabbit (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

wait, does this head work with the 2.0 exclusively? or is this just more reason to upgrade from a 1.8?


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## Blitz16v (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (4-door crap rabbit)*

I have been following this thread for the most part at least tried...wondering if you have thought of adapting this technology to the 1.8l 16v engine. Their nature is top end but maybe you can come up with something ALA VarioCam[porsche] which makes the powerband much broader http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Then again I enjoy the 5500-7k rush


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## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Blitz16v)*

94 jetta
130,000miles
thermal exhaust
abd intake
ams chip
stock wheels and tire size
and limited slip differental
[email protected] (410)742-7937
p.s. i have a 26 year sister that lives on the upper west side, dirty blonde hair, 5'6 130lbs would be my ballpark guess


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## lab_rat (Jun 26, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (purplejettahondaeater)*

i would like to be a guinea pig








i have a 1998 golf gl 2.0
78000 miles, manual tranny
TT exhaust, TTchip, K&N filter
stock 14"steelies
and most importantly - access to several dynos around the area


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## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (onetunedvw)*

i too have dyno access being from terp land, maryland
and a 26year old sister that lives off columbus ave.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (4-door crap rabbit)*

quote:[HR][/HR]wait, does this head work with the 2.0 exclusively? or is this just more reason to upgrade from a 1.8?[HR][/HR]​Not sure I understand the question. I am working on the ABA x-flow heads first, then the VR6 next. The choice to "upgrade" to a 2.0 is up to you.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Blitz16v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]....wondering if you have thought of adapting this technology to the 1.8l 16v engine.....[HR][/HR]​I have thought about it, but there hasn't been a great deal of request for the 16v. As I mentioned before, almost any application could be done, provided there is a significant amount of interest and demand. It is not cost effective to do an application if no one will buy it.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (purplejettahondaeater)*

quote:[HR][/HR]94 jetta
130,000miles
thermal exhaust
abd intake
ams chip
stock wheels and tire size
and limited slip differental
[email protected] (410)742-7937
p.s. i have a 26 year sister that lives on the upper west side, dirty blonde hair, 5'6 130lbs would be my ballpark guess[HR][/HR]​We'll talk later...........


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (onetunedvw)*

quote:[HR][/HR]i would like to be a guinea pig









i have a 1998 golf gl 2.0
78000 miles, manual tranny
TT exhaust, TTchip, K&N filter
stock 14"steelies
and most importantly - access to several dynos around the area














[HR][/HR]​Ok. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I have thought about it, but there hasn't been a great deal of request for the 16v. As I mentioned before, almost any application could be done, provided there is a significant amount of interest and demand. It is not cost effective to do an application if no one will buy it.[HR][/HR]​
I think once the product is complete and people get to hear real reactions from the forum users that then you could ask in the other engine forums. Only then will you really know if there is demand for the 16v and such.



[Modified by Verruckt, 12:10 PM 1-26-2002]


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (purplejettahondaeater)*

Ok, what places are we talking about (dynos)?


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## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

EIP tuning has a dyno near me, (the dyno is the only thing i'd use them for, NGP is close by and they are getting one by march
and several (about 3) other shops also have dynos in my area


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (purplejettahondaeater)*

quote:[HR][/HR]EIP tuning has a dyno near me, (the dyno is the only thing i'd use them for, NGP is close by and they are getting one by march
and several (about 3) other shops also have dynos in my area[HR][/HR]​ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Where in MD are you?


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Verruckt)*

quote:[HR][/HR]I think once the product is complete and people get to hear real reactions from the forum users that then you could ask in the other engine forums. Only then will you really know if there is demand for the 16v and such.[HR][/HR]​Fair enough..
After being reported for cross posting however, I assume not to post anywhere else- save to answer a question, or make a comment. At least for the time being anyway.
Right now, my _singular_ goal is to finish the ABA prototypes and get the testing started. From this point on, and as far as I am concerned, everything else is academic I can get this started.


[Modified by usdm, 5:30 PM 1-26-2002]


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## dUbL2RbL (Sep 10, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

Would you like to try it on a f/i motor?
I have a 1998 Jetta 2.0L 8v crossflow
w/ T3 turbo running 6psi / intercooled...ATP stage II kit.
I have access to 2 dynoes.
If I can help contact me via e-mail in my sig below.
Thanks,
Rob
Nevermind just went back and read through the earlier posts and looks like your looking for a car closer to stock...guess im out but good luck and hope it goes well ..I am very interested in seeing the outcome of this and if all goes as planned hopefully I can get one of these.
Thanks again,
Rob


[Modified by dUbL2RbL, 1:10 AM 1-27-2002]


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (dUbL2RbL)*

Later on down the road, I will want to see the affects of F/I with the valves. But for now, it is best to start off simple and conservative. 
But I will defnitely keep you in mind.


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## ArpyArpad (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

so , this just fits on to the aba block? does it have to be the crossflow? what i mean is, a lot of people do the 1.8head/aba conversion and would this work on that?


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## Blitz16v (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (ArpyArpad)*

So usdm what about 16v's?


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## [email protected] (Mar 10, 1999)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Blitz16v)*

quote:[HR][/HR]So usdm what about 16v's?







[HR][/HR]​This question has been answered, I suggest you read the rest of the thread.


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## Blitz16v (Nov 14, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (Verruckt)*

Jeeeeez relax man, thanks for the headsup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (ArpyArpad)*

quote:[HR][/HR]so , this just fits on to the aba block? does it have to be the crossflow? what i mean is, a lot of people do the 1.8head/aba conversion and would this work on that?[HR][/HR]​Just to make things less complicated...
When I refer to application, I am refering to the OEM valve size specifically. I use the motor/ head designation because it is easier for a lot of folks to grasp ( I think?). Most of the OEM sizes have variances in stem length and dia., overall valve length, margin, valve head dia. etc. The ABA spec are as follows:
stem dia.- 6.97mm
overall length- 90-80mm
face dia.- 40mm
face angle- aprox 44.4 degrees
stem to guide clearance- 1mm
As far as I know, none of the other heads use this size valve, so this would apply to the ABA for the most part. 
Assuming that I can ever get this stuff under way, without any further setbacks, or interruptions ( I do not mean from fellow enthusiasts), then I can see about getting into the other heads.


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

Did you start testing USDM ???


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## 2035cc16v (May 18, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

once the technology has been proven in a 16v the masses will flock to you, guaranteed.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (vento 95 GL)*

quote:[HR][/HR]Did you start testing USDM ???[HR][/HR]​I still have some stuff unrelated to the to deal with, so nothing has happened as of yet. To be honest, I no longer have a positive grasp on when the VW testing will start. Once everything in the periphery is in a managable state, then I will get started. I already have selected a candidate for the testing when it finally happens. I plan to touch base later on this week. 
I'm not sure what else I can say in this matter, but sorry for the delay.


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (2035cc16v)*

That would be nice to see. But first things first. 



[Modified by usdm, 12:23 PM 2-11-2002]


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## purplejettahondaeater (Oct 29, 2000)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

hey sorry i haven't been around much lately, i'm currently in salisbury maryland, but i have a place in the towson area too, so i run around anywhere east of carrol county in maryland


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## vento 95 GL (May 25, 1999)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (purplejettahondaeater)*

USDM : do you think the kit will be finished by this spring or summer??


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## lab_rat (Jun 26, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (usdm)*

quote:[HR][/HR] Where in MD are you?[HR][/HR]​i am about 10-12 miles from the DC line http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
my 2.0 is eagerly awaiting...


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## JPawn1 (Apr 4, 2001)

*Re: So, nothing ever goes a planned.... (lab_rat)*

yeah I'd really like to know about this. When it's gonna be ready for sale...the usual questions that go a long with a new product?


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Like I said.....nothing ever goes as planned*

There are always issues with trying to introduce something new to the market. That is what we are going through right now- *a lot of damned issues*. So, the expected release date is going to be closer to what I assumed in my original postings (before this thread); which is likely late summer-early to mid fall, if I am lucky. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*And in closing........*

I have already spoken with some of the guys that want to help with the testing. I will make the selection shortly- hopefully before the week.
Beyond that, I don't expect to have anything else to share until the testing is under way.


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## vdub-jet (Jan 28, 2002)

*keep us posted man*

be sure to keep us posted of any new developments big guy. there are plenty of people who'll throw down the cash and throw one on their car as soon as you release it.







me being one of them


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## usdm (Jun 5, 2001)

*Re: keep us posted man (vdub-jet)*

Thanks for the positive feedback. I am pretty confident that it will be worth the trouble and effort.
Depending upon how things shake out in the next few weeks, I _*may*_ be able to release more than the one prototype kit- maybe up to three. If I can do that, it will help speed some of the control and real world evaluation. Don't hold me to this, but I will see if it is possible. 
All you guys that contacted me about volunteering, please email again me as soon as you have a chance. I lost many addresses when my email thingy took a dive- sorry about that. Let me know where you have access to a dyno, and remember, I need cars that are close to stock for initial testing (including the stock wheels if possible). I have family in MD also, so I can commute if any one of you guys from there gets selected. _Not sure when we will start, but send me your info again anyway so I can touch base when everything is ready_.
Changed my mind about locking the thread. But I won't have anything else productive to share with you guys concerning this until we start the testing. So if I don't answer a question here, please don't take the wrong way. Most of the stuff we've covered in this thread or on the site already; just do a search here when the function is up again. 
Thanks again to everyone here. I will still be lurking about, and I will definitely keep everyone here posted when we get the testing under way. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



[Modified by usdm, 7:05 AM 2-15-2002]


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