# what do you want?



## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

just wondering, we have now some companies developing and showing interest for our engine, and they all want to help us grow, and obviously they want to sell their stuff, so in short... 

what do we want to see that feasible and good..?

we have a AWD big turbo project with BWperformance, c2 is doing the manis, HTS is doing a turbo set up, JCdouglas and andre are planning on doing ITBs... 

so what do you want to see? more or better powered turbos? RWD conversion? AWD? NA dev?

feel free to post, and refrain from bashing other members, comments, etc.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Cams and tuning for cams. Otherwise all the stuff i want is already around.

Oh, i could use some money to buy all the stuff i want too


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

thygreyt said:


> HST is doing a turbo set up.


Corrected 


I will be going for boosted application personally, so my thoughts are a little biased 

TBH, its a very small market but with some great tuners and parts suppliers. I dont think anything needs to change in that aspect. Most turbo setups for the 2.5 are different and custom. Except for the C2 kit.

That being said, it would be nice to see some NA development. Cams I think are on the top of the list. It would be nice to see some more intake options, exhaust headers. None of this limited run crap that nobody is ever able to find.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

what I personally want is the best crank pulley possble. one that doesnt damage the engine, sort of has a damper and at the same time it allows revs up to 8500 rpms or so.

and for a build project, i'd love to see some good NA development...

and since i still havent bought pistons for my car, i could go either way turbo or NA, so this would make ME choose, for good.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

1. CAMSSSSS :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
2. More reasonably priced header options that arent knockoffs of other companies. (cough)
3. A full set of lightweight power pulleys (power steering, alt, crank, etc.).
4. Some other heavy duty valvetrain components (very surprised Techtonics Tuning hasnt done anything with the 2.5 yet)
5. A supercharger kit but thats been discussed and thought over sooo many times that I really dont think we'll be seeing one anytime soon. BUT Id like one


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

+1 for NA and SC applications. Cams and ITBs. I love the idea of building an all motor monster. Lucky me already has the reasonably priced, limited run headers :thumbup:

Honestly, most of all, I'd really just like updates from companies on what they are doing as they do it. :laugh:

The biggest problem I find is that companies keep things very secretive, then do limited runs, and then I have no money to buy these things I want to because I have spent it elsewhere not expecting product releases.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lessthanalex said:


> +1 for NA and SC applications. Cams and ITBs. I love the idea of building an all motor monster. Lucky me already has the reasonably priced, limited run headers :thumbup:
> 
> Honestly, most of all, I'd really just like updates from companies on what they are doing as they do it. :laugh:
> 
> The biggest problem I find is that companies keep things very secretive, then do limited runs, and then I have no money to buy these things I want to because I have spent it elsewhere not expecting product releases.


lol.

truth! i too want updates... it would be good...

but more and more i see NA apps... this is going to be good!


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## Whitwabit (Feb 4, 2011)

FI software for the 09's:thumbup:


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## jettafan[atic] (Dec 2, 2008)

An AWD or RWD conversion build thread, parts list, or available for purchase kit would get me pretty excited. I've been planning on selling the car in the near future for something AWD but the possibility of just converting the Jetta is very tempting...


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

We don't have power steering through the pulley system... Its electronic... 
But a full pulley kit would be awesome!

Cams without a doubt!

I'd be interested in things that improve not only the motor, but also things to beef up the transmission like hardened gear sets/syncro's different final drives (readily available tdi's)
Maybe longer gears to accommodate top end! If I can rev to 8k I want the tranny to accommodate that ability... Maybe something like 60mph in first! And so on... Let our motors grow legs on em so they can run away from the big boy ferrari's!

Dreaming big!


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## dmgraz (Jan 3, 2008)

1. supercharger
2. cams
3. itb (only if the supercharger was not possible)


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## itskohler (Jan 7, 2011)

dmgraz said:


> 1. supercharger


This for sure.


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

lets keep this going.

maybe some of the aftermarket will look at it as to know where to head over.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

My bad about the power steering, Ive never actually looked at the pulley system on this motor at all yet. Its alittle tight on that side. I was just going off of what other kits usually consist of but any other pulleys other then the crank would be good.


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## dmgraz (Jan 3, 2008)

in know its a stretch but itb w/o standalone  its nice to dream


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I wanna see carbs. Seriously.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I was kinda thinking it'd be nice to figure out things in the areas of maintenance you know? Full aluminum radiators, bolt in trunk mounted battery boxes, cooler thermostats, more valve covers (with pcv options) 
And also things like some of the jdm companies make for hondas k series motors. Like the heavy duty (delrin? Or teflon?) Timing chain guides...

How about electric water pumps that bolt on?


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

lessthanalex said:


> Honestly, most of all, I'd really just like updates from companies on what they are doing as they do it. :laugh:


we try to keep our facebook updated daily, whether it be a little update or something we are working on. we would LOVE for people to get on there and talk to us about stuff. 

www.facebook.com/c2motorsports


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> we try to keep our facebook updated daily, whether it be a little update or something we are working on. we would LOVE for people to get on there and talk to us about stuff.
> 
> www.facebook.com/c2motorsports


Sorry if that came off as a dig against you guys, it wasn't at all. Between facebook and here, you guys are on regularly. There are other companies that will mention that they are developing something or have something in the works, but then never give an update again after that until the product is released. The best way to support us (me) is to tell me what you are making and give me a moderately specific timeline for when I need to come up with the cash by! You guys have done exactly that! Unfortunately for me, things like moar low got in the way of my saving for your SRI. But the time will come for that! :laugh::wave:


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> we try to keep our facebook updated daily, whether it be a little update or something we are working on. we would LOVE for people to get on there and talk to us about stuff.
> 
> www.facebook.com/c2motorsports


Jason, I think for some reason your FB page is blocking Canadians from viewing it. Can you look into this? I cant view from the office, co-workers computers, home and friends computers. Even on your site i see this error on your FB Connect










You may want to look into this.


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I agree with Tyler. I know INA has stuff, but like how on the VR6 you can replace every fragile plastic part on the car with an aluminum one nowadays. Things like that...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i'm sure that with enough interest, ina could develop a set of pulleys for us... as long as we dont repeat the GB or the oil coolers failure...

cause for sure, i'm down if they come out with the pulley system!


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## AlBeezy36 (Jun 25, 2008)

How about a taller 5th gear.

3K @ 70mph sucks (gas).


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## 08 VduB WaBBiT (Apr 3, 2008)

Supercharger please!!!


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Albeezy36 said:


> How about a taller 5th gear.
> 
> 3K @ 70mph sucks (gas).


Apparently you can use a taller TDI 5th gear that Boraparts.com sells on our trannies. A guy with a Rabbit got it to work on his but another guy who tried it said it wouldnt work so Idk what the real story is. I too would like one thats specificaly made for our transmission. I like the ideas TylerO had too about just having upgrades for replacable parts or maintenance type items. I wouldnt mind having some of those at all.

On another note, I was thinking that us guys with SRIs could benefit from one of those phenolic gaskets that go inbetween the head and the manifold to cut down the intake temps by a good amount. Hell, even the stock manifold would probably benefit from one of those possibly. NewSouth Performance makes them for the 2.0 and 1.8t but thats about it. Id like to see one for the 2.5.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

all well and good, but no one wants to spend money.
without people anting to spend money(not 2-3 people) products can't happen.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I know it's not exactly realistic (or necessarily a great idea), but I for one would put my money where my mouth is as far as new product development goes. I would rather put up a large deposit on new product development while it is in "pre-production" in order to guarantee myself the item, support the company doing the development, and ensure that I commit to spending the money on the product, so that it doesn't go elsewhere on the car!


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> all well and good, but no one wants to spend money.
> without people anting to spend money(not 2-3 people) products can't happen.


I agree with you on this... BUT! things that could make plenty of money with minimal investment are things that eventually will need replacing like coolant hoses, t stat housings, phenolic spacers etc etc... I know its not as easy as think it, build it, sell it, prof(it) but take for example the torque arm/dog bone insert, I swear we probably all have one and its a 20 dollar part. But I'm sure they sell every day!
Take the little things with smaller investment and save like you've gotta retire tomorrow... Then make me cams with that money!


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## madness maker (Apr 29, 2002)

readily available cams for my mk1 2.5 turbo awd project


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## H3LVTCA (Oct 27, 2004)

TeamZleep said:


> I wanna see carbs. Seriously.


 Came to post this...


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## kungfoojesus (Jan 10, 2005)

09+ software development for FI, NA, etc etc. somebody has to have a week or two to do this, please? with all the 2.5's on the road a few weeks of tuning can't be that costly can it?


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

kungfoojesus said:


> 09+ software development for FI, NA, etc etc. somebody has to have a week or two to do this, please? with all the 2.5's on the road a few weeks of tuning can't be that costly can it?


the newer 2.5 owners havent had a clue about chipping cars, etc


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## digitalpirat (Jan 15, 2009)

1. Cams
2. Taller 5th gear
3. Fender Flare Kits (hello 1552, I'm lookin' at you  )


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## HIBB 304 (Nov 8, 2008)

madness maker said:


> readily available cams for my mk1 2.5 turbo awd project


NICE:laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jul 27, 2010)

lessthanalex said:


> Sorry if that came off as a dig against you guys, it wasn't at all. Between facebook and here, you guys are on regularly. There are other companies that will mention that they are developing something or have something in the works, but then never give an update again after that until the product is released. The best way to support us (me) is to tell me what you are making and give me a moderately specific timeline for when I need to come up with the cash by! You guys have done exactly that! Unfortunately for me, things like moar low got in the way of my saving for your SRI. But the time will come for that! :laugh::wave:


i don't feel that way at all! We try to keep up regularly as much as we can! I was just kind of throwing it out there in case anyone else was interested 

Let us know when you are ready for the SRI!



GTACanuck said:


> Jason, I think for some reason your FB page is blocking Canadians from viewing it. Can you look into this? I cant view from the office, co-workers computers, home and friends computers. Even on your site i see this error on your FB Connect
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh no! That's no good. I will try to figure out what the deal is. Is anyone in the states experiencing this too or just Canada?



kungfoojesus said:


> 09+ software development for FI, NA, etc etc. somebody has to have a week or two to do this, please? with all the 2.5's on the road a few weeks of tuning can't be that costly can it?


it *is* costly and the 09 and newer software is different. 



madness maker said:


> readily available cams for my mk1 2.5 turbo awd project


this is sweet!!! build thread or anything?


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## KyleLaughs (Mar 23, 2010)

I want a small turbo, just enough to give me some more umph. until i see a good awd conversion, then ill go big turbo. Im actually starting a thread about the small turbo...... NOW


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## madness maker (Apr 29, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> this is sweet!!! build thread or anything?


thanks, i plan on posting a build thread when i get further along and it starts to look like something good.. rear teaser pic..


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## 08Drabbit (Feb 3, 2011)

not to attempt to thread jack but mk1 2.5:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:.
anyway some very valid points have been made: c2 is the only real turbo kit that i know of unless someone knows something else or you go custom. but there is really not much out there for some raw NA power. we need cams definetely, valvetrain components, aluminum radatior and cooler thermostat. 
I am kind of intrigued by people talking about a bolt up awd or rwd setup.


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## MKVJET08 (Feb 12, 2008)

Well, everything I want to see has already been mentioned...



thygreyt said:


> RWD conversion





DerekH said:


> Cams and tuning for cams





Albeezy36 said:


> a taller 5th gear





tay272 said:


> phenolic gaskets that go inbetween the head and the manifold to cut down the intake temps


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

The taller 5th gear is already available with tdi's gears, however some people haven't had luck with them working on some transmissions. I just think replacement strengthened gear sets would be great! 
Phenolic spacers are relatively easy to make. I have a friend that had his made by a local machinist and he just bought the material and had the guy match his gaskets... He says it was around 65 bucks for everything (home boy hook up I'm guessing)

I'd be also interested in things that could clean up our bays. Like military style amphenol connectors, pre wired for tucking wires... I've been looking into doing this for some time...
A honda guy does them for the import scene chasebay's I think is his site... I'd like things like that made


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i cant stretch how much i wanna see a good NA build... we have a lot of untapped powah!


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

I would love to be that NA build...stupid money.


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

I hate to say it but Greyt, I think you are the closest to being that NA build haha. Only one I know of so far whos doing the valvetrain along with pistons and rods as well. Youll be set once cams do come out then. If somehow I land some amazing job that pays me much more then now or I win some money, then yeah Id be dumpin alot of it into my car but keeping it NA :laugh:.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

Yes, thygreyt is probably the closest to NA build, but hasn't he purcharsed low comp pistons? Typical with a turbo build. 

We shall see upon graduation where my car goes. First I need an intake mani, after that, it's all internals!


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Greyt is undecided on pistons...afaik... Hes waiting lol...
I say stick to N/A and show everyone just how great this little 5 banger can be


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

i have rods and valevtrain purchased...
and i have the money lined up for the mani, as soon as they are all out, i'll chose one.

i'm as always undecided on the NA/turbo build.

if i were to stay NA i'd do 11:1 (with over bore), wild cams, water/meth injection, and prolly a head ported, quad exhaust(2.5") and maximize it all with a custom tune and some porsche brakes to keep me safe.

if i were to go turbo i'd do 9:1(with overbore), mild cams, 5857 precision, intercooler, bigger injectors, water/meth injection, quad exhaust (3.0") and porsche brakes to stop me from the next bumper!

hopefully i could do an NA build with around 300 WHP or a 400WHP turbo build...

i do know that 400s are amazing, or even late 300s, but NA power is always awesome!


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Shoot I'm content with just under 300 hp...

Anything more and I'd find myself under the pressure of a gavel in the court system...

That and axles aren't exactly cheap...I'm thinking raxles for sure


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

How about an upgraded clutch slave cylinder? Full metal with a plate to allow bolt on install? Once we start going to bigger heavier clutches and lightened fly wheels we might start needing a better stronger way to flow that fluid... Without excessive wear... It seems like maybe making it a bit larger and beefier may move more and help with stiffness... Possible? Ideas?


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## TeamZleep (Aug 28, 2007)

I've been talking to Gregg at usp, I'm going to see if their mk4 metal slave cylinder conversion will work on out cars. I'll keep you in the loop!


Sent from the wheelgap of my racekor.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

I like this idea!


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

TeamZleep said:


> I've been talking to Gregg at usp, I'm going to see if their mk4 metal slave cylinder conversion will work on out cars. I'll keep you in the loop!
> 
> 
> Sent from the wheelgap of my racekor.


please do!


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

I'd be happy with CAMS.

Which hopefully when I move out to Cali, I will start working on. My father-in-law already has a shop willing to regrind mine. Only problem is proper tuning for them.


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## MKVrabbit07 (Apr 7, 2011)

cams..... yes.


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## KyleLaughs (Mar 23, 2010)

i think enough of us want cams that any tuning company out there will find it feasible to design and build some for us. i mean, cmon. it a five cylinder inline engine from VW, its not like its some super complex design from some unheard of company with an obscure cliental... i mean:facepalm: 
its ****ing cams...


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

most of us want cams and further NA


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

kiserhd said:


> I'd be happy with CAMS.
> 
> Which hopefully when I move out to Cali, I will start working on. My father-in-law already has a shop willing to regrind mine. Only problem is proper tuning for them.


 You can't regrind the rabbit cams.


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

Why is that? (I'm not being a smartass I seriously don't know. My father-in-law is the motor guy) 

If they cant regrind I've got another company that will cut me a new set they're just more expensive. (They already said they can drill them as well)


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

kiserhd said:


> Why is that? (I'm not being a smartass I seriously don't know. My father-in-law is the motor guy)
> 
> If they cant regrind I've got another company that will cut me a new set they're just more expensive. (They already said they can drill them as well)


 The lobes are press fit onto hollow cores, and also they have a very sharp negative radius of curvature already on one flank per lobe- regrinding them a) might spin them on the core b) would require a really really little grinding wheel. 

You need billets, unfortunately. If you can get billets made at a good price, sweet. :thumbup: From what I have seen, and given the complexity of the cores due to the VVT mechanisms and the trigger wheel, they are not cheap to make. 

It's nothing insurmountable though, and cams are in the works from at least 2 companies. It just takes time, the whole process is really damn slow- over a year if you are going to dyno test & revise. (AKA, do it properly)


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Now this may be way out of left field, but has anyone looked into the 5.0 v10 gallardo cams? They are press fit too right? Could we possibly take the lobes from their cams and make it possible?

Not sure exactly how that motor fires in order, but mixed and matched to our timing could be fun... Wild lambo cams? Hell yeah! Put me down for a set!


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

TylerO28 said:


> Now this may be way out of left field, but has anyone looked into the 5.0 v10 gallardo cams? They are press fit too right? Could we possibly take the lobes from their cams and make it possible?
> 
> Not sure exactly how that motor fires in order, but mixed and matched to our timing could be fun... Wild lambo cams? Hell yeah! Put me down for a set!


 
Not gonna happen. The fixturing to put it all together in the right order, phasing, and with enough accuracy is expensive even to OEM's. 

People have been there / messed with that already. :laugh:


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

yup. lambo cams are wrong firing order to start. pete's right, can't regrind the 2.5 cams. and even tho the same 5 people post everywhere that they want cams...it's still only 5 people. thats not enough to make a $50+K investment.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

Question, and i could just be talking out my ass here because I'm definitely not a machinist. but could you not make a billet reproduction of the stock cam and regrind that? seems like it would be less work. 

I'm assuming cast wouldn't be strong enough so i guess casting the oem cam and regrinding is out of the question. 

Also, what about the rs cams? are they manufactured in the same press on way or could they be modified?


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## tay272 (Aug 22, 2007)

Well guys, looks like we might get what were waiting for pretty soon according to this. Good news for the 2.5 community. 
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.ph...233224894.138797.118362329894&type=1&comments


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## mmrabbit (Jun 27, 2008)

Torque torque torque and a longer 5 gear...


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

DerekH said:


> Question, and i could just be talking out my ass here because I'm definitely not a machinist. but could you not make a billet reproduction of the stock cam and regrind that? seems like it would be less work.


 That's how the cams which are slowly working their way to market will be made. The 2.5L core does not lend itself to casting so they will be billets. 

No idea on the RS cams... The tooling is about $1/4M to do the press fit assembly, so I can only guess vw would stick with that and get their money's worth out of the tool. 

I called the dealer about some other TT-RS parts and they do not have that info in their ETKA yet.


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## DerekH (Sep 4, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> That's how the cams which are slowly working their way to market will be made. The 2.5L core does not lend itself to casting so they will be billets.
> 
> No idea on the RS cams... The tooling is about $1/4M to do the press fit assembly, so I can only guess vw would stick with that and get their money's worth out of the tool.
> 
> I called the dealer about some other TT-RS parts and they do not have that info in their ETKA yet.


 Huh, well that's frustrating for several reasons. And yeah i wouldn't imagine tooling for that would be cheap. Hopefully the RS cams are doable but i kind of doubt it. Out of curiosity why couldn't you cast them? too much profile on the cam lobes? Could you not cast it oversize and grind it back to spec? I know you were saying that the profile is pretty extreme is it just that you can't grind that kind of angle with a standard grinding wheel?


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## GTACanuck (Feb 20, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> I called the dealer about some other TT-RS parts and they do not have that info in their ETKA yet.


 Did the same thing about 3 weeks ago. My buddy whom is a parts manager up here couldnt find anything relating to it yet. I would imagine very soon though.


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## lessthanalex (Oct 12, 2009)

tay272 said:


> Well guys, looks like we might get what were waiting for pretty soon according to this. Good news for the 2.5 community.
> http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.ph...233224894.138797.118362329894&type=1&comments


 Saw that! Looking forward to what they end up deciding to do!


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> The lobes are press fit onto hollow cores, and also they have a very sharp negative radius of curvature already on one flank per lobe- regrinding them a) might spin them on the core b) would require a really really little grinding wheel.
> 
> You need billets, unfortunately. If you can get billets made at a good price, sweet. :thumbup: From what I have seen, and given the complexity of the cores due to the VVT mechanisms and the trigger wheel, they are not cheap to make.
> 
> It's nothing insurmountable though, and cams are in the works from at least 2 companies. It just takes time, the whole process is really damn slow- over a year if you are going to dyno test & revise. (AKA, do it properly)


 Any chance you have the specs for the stock cams? I'm looking at a shorter duration for the intake 215 degrees @ .050. And a 10 degree longer duration for the exhaust cam. The head will also be ported for better flow, and I plan on running the ferrera (sp?) valvetrain upgrade. 

My goal is to make the most power possible without going crazy with the timing. So the cylinder pressure doesn't peak and kill power past 6500 rpms.


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## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

DerekH said:


> Huh, well that's frustrating for several reasons. And yeah i wouldn't imagine tooling for that would be cheap. Hopefully the RS cams are doable but i kind of doubt it. Out of curiosity why couldn't you cast them? too much profile on the cam lobes? Could you not cast it oversize and grind it back to spec? I know you were saying that the profile is pretty extreme is it just that you can't grind that kind of angle with a standard grinding wheel?


 Just the complexity of the core, not the cam profile- It has all manner of complicated shiot on it because VW was like "well, since we're putting this thing together from 15 pieces, we can build whatever we want"... For example, the nose of the cam is complex with the VVT tensioner provisions- then you have the drilled & tapped hole that goes through the cam for the alignment tool- probably wouldn't want that on a cast cam for stress reasons. Then at the other end there is the trigger wheel, which is a mess to machine even from billet. 

I have the factory cam specs at the shop, but i'm headed to the airport to go to waterfest right now... IIRC around 10.5mm of lift and ~minimal duration. You certainly wouldn't want less duration at .050" on the intake cam if you want to make more power, and you can't really increase the lift much at all if you want it to be a "drop in" cam. :thumbup:


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