# c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems



## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

here is the problem: I completed my turbo setup this week (t3 super 60 with c2 440cc software with vr6 maf) but when I hit the pedal to the ground (or when the rpm goes high) the car seems to run on 3 cylinders, the a/f seems ok (or my wideband isn't right but I don't think so) the turbo is good we changed every firing parts (rotor wires etc...) but the problem isn't gone so we think that the chip might be the problem and I want advice or if someone already had this problem, tell me what it can be!!


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## vr6nitro (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Volksdude27)*

I don't know if you have the same problem as me but it definitely seems the same. Does your problem occur under boost and wot? Mine seems to chug along at that point.
t3/t4 turbo
440 cc inj
spacer headgasket
c2 software


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (vr6nitro)*

yes this is definitely the same problem


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Volksdude27)*

hello people.....
What are your spark plugs gapped at?
And what plugs are you using?


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Salsa GTI)*

my spark plug are ngk's i don't remeber the gap and the model but they are the colder ones


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Volksdude27)*

run NGK BKR 7E
Gap to .022"-.024"

-Jeff


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_run NGK BKR 7E
Gap to .022"-.024"

-Jeff

What he said


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Salsa GTI)*

and it should correct the problem?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Volksdude27)*

yes it should...if the plugs are gapped to large the boost blows the flame out and you get bad bucking and miss fires.


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: c2 motorsports 2.0 chip problems (Salsa GTI)*

Boost noobs!!


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

if it'S only that, i will bash my head onto a wall










_Modified by Volksdude27 at 7:04 AM 9-22-2006_


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volksdude27* »_if it'S only that, i will bash my head onto a wall









_Modified by Volksdude27 at 7:04 AM 9-22-2006_

No need for that...just try it first and report back.
Enjoy the forced induction world


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

gapped the ngk's to 0.22" and still the same issues


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

also try sprayng your coil with a mist of water at night or in a dark place whith the engine running ...and see if you get misfires and arcing


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

we checked something and the problem seems to come from a bad connection and 1 or 2 defective sensors, I'm going to my friend's place to check it out. 
But i thought about something else this night. How does the chip knows how much boost I have. A Mass air flow, like it's name says measure flow and not pressure. So assuming that the chip don't have any idea of the boost i'm at,it is always injecting about the same amount of fuel for every pressure (wich I suppose too will be the max the injectors can shoot), but is supposed to correct itself with the o2 sensors signal if too rich. Am I right? the only think that tells me that I could be not so right is the necessity of a 3" vr6 maf housing
So if I suppose my hypothesis is right and that my o2 sensors are brand spankin new what can explain the abnormally rich condition I run at every driving conditions? (will post real wideband data later today)


_Modified by Volksdude27 at 8:00 AM 9-23-2006_


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

you can IM Jeffness3 at c2 and he will give you insite on how he ajust the paramiters of the stock computer to deal with boost. It has ...to my knowlage to do with mass air calculation against tps reading and vss inputt to dertimine fuel needs....The older c2 chips ran without the OXY sensors pluged in. They have nothing to do with the fueling of his chips the newer chips run with the o2 plugged in for better fuel economy off boost and no check engine lite. RUn a Vag Com and check for codes...bad intake air sensor or water temp sensor will kill fuel econmy and run verry rich.
PS the VR6 mas ait is 2 3/4 inch ID not actuly 3 inch. A 3 inch housing will make your car run lean across the board....and a stock 2 l one will make it run verry verry rich.....I have logged all 3 just for fun








make sure to use the correct maff housing and have a good sensor.
IM jeff he will be glad to help you out.


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

sad that the stupid guy that maked the swap didn't see the utility of letting the obd2 connector on the harness


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volksdude27* »_sad that the stupid guy that maked the swap didn't see the utility of letting the obd2 connector on the harness









here this may help: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2774944


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

we retried tonight and the same things happen again and again with water temp sensor and MAF replaced. everything is ok and normal when no boost is on, but when the boost appears, the engine is erratic, goes cool again (by the way, it rocks when ok) do it again, and the cycle continues again and again.
the wideband datas are normal when driving normally but when boosted, it goes abnormally rich, like 7-8


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

The ECU doesnt need to know the amount of boost, but it knows exactly how much air is in there -- higher boost = more air going through MAF = more fuel


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_
here this may help: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2774944

And thats your answer right there.....no need fpr the check engine lite...it is nice to have tho.....this info and a vag com and you will find the problem in a quick way


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

just need to find a connector and I'm on the way, By the way do someone have the complete wiring diagram for a 1998 jetta? (the engine is supposed to be a 2001 cabrio one but the ecu is from a 1998 jetta so I'm pretty sure the harness is too)


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

have u done any timing logs?


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (the awesome)*

can't yet since I haven't done the vag-com plug


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

it sounds like it could be too much timing and the ecu is pulling it...try and get some logs, also try turning down the boost substantially


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (the awesome)*

plugged my CEL and the obd2 connector today And we found theses codes: (we used a SNAP-On tool) 
p1426:Tank Ventilation Valve Open Circuit 
p0300:Random Misfire Detected 
p0301:Misfire at #1 cylinder
p0304:Misfire at #4 cylinder
p0501:No vss signal (normal since I haven't one yet)
I know some codes can only be read by a vag-com tool but since I cannot find one yet, we'll try with what we have


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

you NEED a working VSS for the ecu to work properly.
-Jeff


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_you NEED a working VSS for the ecu to work properly.
-Jeff

we flashed the codes and the vss one didn't reapear


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

did a compression test and everything seems ok 200 on every cylinders exept #4 at 195.
oh and another question, is the timing should stop advance in boost or retard (cuz the log we get tells us that the timing was staying in boost)


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

new update: We logged new data and these new error codes appeared:
p1544: Throttle Actuation Potentiometer Signal Too High 
p0121: TP Sensor Circuit ‘‘A’’ Range/Performance (don't have a clue on this one)
p1237 thru p1240 :Injector Circuit Open (1 thru 4 cylinders)
as well as the vss one (we're finishing installing the vss tonight or tommorrow) and misfiring cylinders 1 and 4
We unplugged the o2 sensor too and the car seems to take the boost a little more than with it plugged.
timming seems good, or I'm totally out with my thinking, I'm in a total blackout


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## vr6nitro (Aug 27, 2001)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

It's reasons like this I started taking my car back apart and returning it to stock.


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (vr6nitro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr6nitro* »_It's reasons like this I started taking my car back apart and returning it to stock.


yeah sometimes i regret not putting a 1.8t


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## Ddubb9965 (May 5, 2005)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

i'll chime in for some probably rather useless info...
with o2 sensors unplugged on my setup it didn't make THAT much of a difference on afr under boost. Biggest problems to be sorted out that effected afr was boost leaks and a properly working diverter valve. with a working dv that was re-routed properly i went from 200miles per tank to 300+miles per tank, and no longer looked like a deisel going down the road. just food for thought


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## Slimjimmn (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

A 2001 cabrio is obd2, hopefully you used the correct ecm from the car you took the engine from. The vss on a mk2 is different from mk3 the signal is different also for the way the cluster reads it. 
Check the large circle wiring harness connector above the trans by the engine. This connector tends to corrode alot and come loose. Its a twist style connector, just take it off and look at the wires, also make sure its on nice and tight.
Also are you running a recirc for the bov?


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_you NEED a working VSS for the ecu to work properly.
-Jeff

Jeff, cant you just code this out? Ive heard that GIAC and TT offer chips with it coded out. Im hoping you can because my swap doesnt have a VSS and I would like to boost it in the near future.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_
Jeff, cant you just code this out? Ive heard that GIAC and TT offer chips with it coded out. Im hoping you can because my swap doesnt have a VSS and I would like to boost it in the near future.

The GIAC and TT chips defeat only the VSS function for the speed limiter. 
If your car is CE2, there is a VSS signal circuit in the fuse box. I can't remember the pin assignment, but it's a short yellow / white wire with a white plug in the 16V Motronic cars. 
We've used this wire to send a VSS signal to the ECU on several swap cars, it may not be exactly what the ECU wants, but it's good enough to get rid of the VSS fault codes.


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (vr6swap)*

My car is a 82 Rabbit so thats not going to work.


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## vr6swap (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_My car is a 82 Rabbit so thats not going to work. 

May not be a total loss, if your car ever had cruise control, it will have VSS. Or you may need to track down a cluster / harness from a VSS car. Vortexer deathare did a thread on installing an A2 cluster in a rabbit dash, if you choose to go that way. 
The VSS is, as far as I know, not a digital signal but a analog pulse, and the later ECU's don't seem to mind using the signal from earlier clusters.


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## Band-Aid (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (vr6swap)*

I was trying to prevent any more work on my behalf it could just be coded out of the software. I might just have to stick in a Scirocco 16v cluster.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (Band-Aid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Band-Aid* »_I was trying to prevent any more work on my behalf it could just be coded out of the software. 

It all depends on how much your time is worth to you...
i.e. ~2 hours of your time to add the VSS stuff to the cluster 
or pay me ~2 hours to do the code work.








-Jeff


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## toplessvw (Jul 31, 2003)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*

definatly go out and get a cluster from a car that had cruise or mfa and wire 
http://mysite.verizon.net/e.se...l#VSS
here is a good site that might help people, this is how I did it in my cab and it works good


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

Ok I saw that I forgot to mention that i changed my fuel pump for a holley 255 lph one. Could this be a possible source of my problem??


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## Volksdude27 (Nov 25, 2005)

*Re: (Volksdude27)*

changed the 440cc for g60 ones tonight just for a test, car seems to keep is air/fuel much better, exhaust is not like a diesel anymore and the car doesn't stall when I make it idle just after boosting it was knocking sometimes though. The intermitent bucking problem is still there but it happen less often.
So I suppose that my first idea of having a #30 software instead of #42 one is appearing to be right (or I'm really missing something) and that my trouble is an addition of many little problems like a sensor and/or wiring that is half fried the injectors that shoot too much fuel and maybe a fire or timing issues but I have no clues how to solve this last part if it is.
The lack of vag-com availability around here makes me sad and were limited to the snap-on generic obdII scanner since I order a vag-com harness and a program to go with it.

Anyway I really want to know why the g60 injectors are making my car run better if I have the right software, it makes no sense in my head.


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