# No crank after putting hole in oil pan. FIXED



## ShaneDaniel (3 mo ago)

2002 VW Jetta GLS 1.8t

I took out my oil pan the other day on a shifty manhole cover. It didn't kill the car, I moved it maybe 1.5 minutes to a better spot and it died right before getting there, moved real slow and careful. Just replaced the pan but I'm getting no crank at all, the anti theft light is blinking now. Any suggestions, I haven't tested to see if it's seized because I have doubts that is the culprit. Here's photos and a little video, I get a click which seems to be coming from the starter area of the motor.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Did you remove the ground strap? Did you put it back on?


----------



## Leirk (Oct 1, 2020)

Was the engine running with no oil when it died? Can you turn the crankshaft with a ratchet? Good luck 🍀


----------



## EnIgMa '06 (May 13, 2004)

You moved it for 1.5 minutes _after_ you lost the pan? As in moved it under its own power with the engine running? Your engine is almost certainly seized...sorry


----------



## ZL8R (Jun 22, 2020)

Should not have kept driving. Go back and look for oil trail


----------



## ShaneDaniel (3 mo ago)

I'm going to double check that with a ratchet today, however I stopped immediately and let it cool down for a good two hours and then moved it to a more appropriate spot just a block to leave it overnight. Just wanted to check if there is any other reasons why it might not be starting after something like this.


----------



## djstarscr3am (Aug 16, 2012)

letting it cool will not replace the fact it was probably dry and seized up as you drove it. good luck


----------



## ShaneDaniel (3 mo ago)

I agree but may have saved me from a welded piston. We have rebuilt this engine once for performance and it's got custom many things, it was pretty lubricated and I'm hoping. I'll keep you posted, I am missing the starter blocking relay and figure maybe it's that. Worked fine prior however.


----------



## ShaneDaniel (3 mo ago)

What size will I need to turn the crank, I forget.


----------



## XDleader555 (Aug 11, 2019)

ShaneDaniel said:


> What size will I need to turn the crank, I forget.


19mm 12 point socket


----------



## ChefroA6 (Dec 3, 2020)

** Edited - Note to self: *never assume all the VAG cars use same size crap. stop jumping into discussion if you don't have concrete known info*. ****


----------



## ChefroA6 (Dec 3, 2020)

Wait...on the Jetta the crank bolt is 19mm? I would have thought is the same as in the Passat or Audi...24mm.
Regardless...Good luck, Daniel.


----------



## ATBB (Oct 23, 2020)

ShaneDaniel said:


> It didn't kill the car, I moved it maybe 1.5 minutes to a better spot


Wow, I am impressed an engine is able to operate that long without lubrication.

Shouldn't it be considered totaled at the moment when the pressure drops below critical level?
It might still be possible to turn the crankshaft and camshafts, or maybe even to start it. That does not change the fact it is totaled and wear exceeding acceptable tolerances.


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

In the mid 80's I was working at a BMW dealership. I did a really large job, oil service, A/C compressor, head gasket, basically a 2 day job. When I was done, I started the engine up so I could bleed the cooling system and check the A/C. After about 10 minutes, I thought the A/C compressor was a bit loud. It took few seconds before I realized that I never put oil in it. Not certain the long term result, but it drove fine on the road test.

Same dealership, I replaced a manual transmission under warranty. Can't remember why, but I did. There was a big sticker on it, do not change the oil at 1,500 miles [common practice back then]. Thinking that I should not have to change it, it must be factory filled with the new fangled synthetic oil. A week later, the client came in saying his transmission was hard to shift. I road tested with him and agreed. Seems odd, the only thing I could do was check the oil level. Sure enough, it was empty. I topped it up and the transmission shifted fine. Not certain of the long term results of that one either. 

Oil is important, but I believe unless you are drag racing, 1.5 minutes is not going to ruin the engine. It could, but probably not. 

No I'm not recommending to drain your engine oil and drive it around the block. Just sharing my experiences.


----------



## Ichabod0525 (Feb 11, 2018)

You'd be surprised how long an engine will run without oil in the pan but giving it a complete turn over or two with a wrench is where to start, just to make sure. Then it's off to the races with a scan for codes, checking power and grounds and other fun stuff. The anti theft light blinking is a clue.


----------



## ShaneDaniel (3 mo ago)

It ran 2 minutes without oil, the starter started driving the car, and is now burnt out. Not seized, immobilizer light shut off after the battery being connected overnight. Got to the car and the starter was ticking.


----------



## spitpilot (Feb 14, 2000)

ShaneDaniel said:


> It ran 2 minutes without oil, the starter started driving the car, and is now burnt out. Not seized, immobilizer light shut off after the battery being connected overnight. Got to the car and the starter was ticking.


Having trouble understanding you car's condition...if you could turn engine over by hand, but the starter can't crank it and when you try you hear "starter ticking"....battery is low on charge or dead. I would have pulled the rod bearings while the pan was off to look for any issues there since they were ez to get at....good luck!
You'd be surprised at how many folks think the "oil light" is like the low gas light...you can keep driving, not "shut 'er down ASAP" or you'll ruin expensive equipment.


----------



## fat biker (Feb 16, 2001)

On a similar note...
Here is how my 1975 Scirocco went to the big junkyard in the sky.

The Scirocco was usually driven only by me, five days/week, work and back.
My wife really did enjoy driving the car and so on one Saturday she drove off to one of her sewing related activities and returned home. No mention of any difficulty or mishaps with the Scirocco.

Sunday AM, I am in the driveway for the weekly checks of both cars.
There is a huge oil slick on the driveway in front of the Scirocco, roughly 3 feet square.
WTH!
Jack up the front for a look.

Most obvious, the oil pan Smacked the Curb a good one. The drain plug is loose and the lower end of the pan is distorted. I cannot recall why I was unable to hit the local junkyard for a replacement on that particular sunday. I tightened the drain plug and topped the oil. Cannot recall how much it took.

Mental Note; Check the Oil before starting until the oil pan is replaced.

Later that week, on my way to work. I must have failed to check the oil.
Two miles in, Oil Pressure light comes on. Pull over and shutdown immediately.
Dipstick shows nothing. I add 1 quart of oil on hand and drive gently to the nearest gas station. Buy and add 2 more quarts.

Started and sounded okay, seemed to run fine. Another few miles. BANG! Engine seized.
End of the Scirocco.

fat biker


----------



## Desertrat713 (9 mo ago)

I guess is need be I’d be willing to sell you my 2003 Jetta GLS. Honestly I can’t wait to find a different vehicle. First and last VW I’ll ever own. On a positive note, it has a brand new top end and brand new kO4 turbo.


----------



## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

First you test by turning the engine by hand.
Then if it turns over easily enough, you replace the pan, change the oil and drive it a few thousand miles.
Then you check for metallic grit in the pan and filter.
You can remove the spark plugs to make it easier to turn over.
Bearings often retain enough oil to not be harmed in just a few minutes of running.


----------



## Almost1 (Nov 3, 2010)

ShaneDaniel said:


> It ran 2 minutes without oil,* the starter started driving the car*, and is now burnt out. Not seized, immobilizer light shut off after the battery being *connected* overnight. Got to the car and the starter was ticking.


I'm having trouble understanding the full sequence of events. 
1. Pan smashed - stopped car immediately?
2. After cooling, you drove the car for 2 minutes?
3. After driving the car for 2 minutes it died on its own, immobilizer light came on? What's this about driving the car with the starter?
4. After immobilizer light came on you unplugged the battery overnight?
5. After letting the car sit overnight you now have a no crank situation?

Please clarify.


----------



## gti_matt (Oct 9, 1999)

If at this point the car is all buttoned up and back together and it's just the start(er/ing) issue, as long as it's a manual transmission is there a reason why a good ol' push-start-pop-clutch should not be attempted once or twice just to get the engine going and to confirm low voltage or starter death?


----------



## XDleader555 (Aug 11, 2019)

If you can turn the engine over manually at the crank, I say go for it.


----------



## jmatters (Aug 14, 2020)

ATBB said:


> Wow, I am impressed an engine is able to operate that long without lubrication.
> 
> Shouldn't it be considered totaled at the moment when the pressure drops below critical level?
> It might still be possible to turn the crankshaft and camshafts, or maybe even to start it. That does not change the fact it is totaled and wear exceeding acceptable tolerances.


30 years ago, a friend needed to blow up a slant 6 engine in a dodge. They drained the oil and started it, letting it run outside the dealership shop . At lunchtime, it was still running...


----------



## djstarscr3am (Aug 16, 2012)

i mean its call the leaning tower of power for a reason


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Tower of power? I worked on those in the past, not a lot, but a few. Power is not the first thing that comes to mind.


----------



## djstarscr3am (Aug 16, 2012)

the name was made long before my time haha. neat read here though Leaning Tower of Power: The Chrysler Slant 6 Story


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

A radiator hose (or maybe a freeze plug) was leaking on my '65 Plymouth Valiant station wagon. I had several gallons of water but it eventually steamed those out. It refused to proceed about 10 miles out of town. The oil was evaporated out and the coolant was gone. I hitched a ride into town and picked up some oil and coolant. It made it back to town but that mighty Slant 6 was done for. Even though it made it back after cooling down and transfusions of oil and coolant, it had seized on me on the middle of nowhere. I got a junkyard engine which I found out was even worse once I tore it down. I made a so-so engine out of the best parts of each one. I don't think I bought any new parts except gaskets. The bastardized Slant 6 ran in the Valiant until my sister got rid of it. It swapped ends on a bridge when she had a blowout so she didn't trust it. Before I destroyed that Slant 6, everybody said they were indestructible. I don't know if me building another out of nothing but used parts that ran until the car was junked is a tribute to the Slant 6 or not. I "built" that engine on no budget other than the cost of the junkyard engine and maybe some gaskets.


----------



## ShaneDaniel (3 mo ago)

So I'm sorry, I was at McDonald's, while swinging around to get into the drive-thru lane, I hit a manhole cover which was inappropriately cemented in. This put 3 holes in my Sump. After 30 seconds I lost oil pressure and the light came on. I parked, got my food and called work. I let it cool so that moving it wouldn't weld anything up. This car is machined and this was recent, I didn't want to risk moving it at all but I live in Colorado and McDonald's is not a safe place to leave a vehicle overnight which I had to do. As I was moving it, it seemed that it went into some sort of "mode" kind of like the bypass they have on vehicles for the clutch so that you can crank your way out of traffic in the event something goes wrong. The car only went 5mph. And yes it died during the move. After diagnosising this problem, I actually had to take out my tuned ECU and throw on an old one that was fried to get the car to start after changing the starter which burnt up. The ECU I have installed had an immobilizer "delete'. After getting the car started with the bad ECU, I let oil cycle for 5 minutes. Then I plugged my tuned ECU back up and the car turned right over. This was sure an adventure. I appreciate the postive responses and story's.


----------



## ChefroA6 (Dec 3, 2020)

This was a good one...
People made all sorts of assumptions, yet who would have guessed you had a flashed ECU with an immobilizer "delete" function, which immobilizer still prevented you from starting the car and was actually blinking until you removed the flashed ECU and were able to actually start it with a "fried" ECU?
I suggest this should be archived as a classic diagnostic for a blinking immobilizer on a car that doesn't want to start


----------



## ShaneDaniel (3 mo ago)

ChefroA6 said:


> This was a good one... People made all sorts of assumptions, yet who would have guessed you had a flashed ECU with an immobilizer "delete" function, which immobilizer still prevented you from starting the car and was actually blinking until you removed the flashed ECU and were able to actually start it with a "fried" ECU? I suggest this should be archived as a classic diagnostic for a blinking immobilizer on a car that doesn't want to start


 I agree. It's quite the thing, that I'm sure might leave people to think there cars ruined. Or even their ECU, those cranks are not easy to reach without getting a good angle at it and can easily be mistaken for a "seized" engine I'm sure.


----------



## Desertrat713 (9 mo ago)

jmatters said:


> 30 years ago, a friend needed to blow up a slant 6 engine in a dodge. They drained the oil and started it, letting it run outside the dealership shop . At lunchtime, it was still running...


I ran a 1998 Ford Ranger 2.5L 4 banger with no oil in it for 6 months trying to kill it. When the people were on their way to buy it off me I remembered there was no oil in it and had to fill it. Lol


----------



## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

I have a POS VW Pickup. When I first purchased it, it used oil, a lot of it. Being busy, I rarely checked it and when I went around a corner and the oil pressure light came on, I knew I was low. Added usually 3 quarts of oil. Eventually I replaced the valve guide seals which bought me more time. The oil consumption when down from a quart in 200 miles to a quart in 1.5k.

I drove it that way for well over 50k with never changing the oil or oil filter. Certainly nothing to brag about, when I am fixing clients car well over $100k. Eventually, I took the 1.7l engine out and swapped a refreshed 1.8l in it. I did check the wear/tear of the rod bearings and they looked pretty good considering the engine had 220k on it.

There are a lot of things people say but they just parrot what they heard. Some people have real world experience and sometimes that really clashes with what people are told.

I've worked with many clients and just because something happened, does not mean it cause something else. Testing is where it is at and when you find the real answer, sometimes it is related but certainly not always.


----------



## kirk_augustin (Jul 21, 2012)

Thicker oil will leave protective residue longer than the 0w20 some people are using.


----------



## Fred Helenberg (2 mo ago)

I had a similar problem on my old car


----------

