# Turbocharging VW 8V 4-cyl aluminum block



## Karhu (Mar 27, 2001)

Hi all,

I'm planning to build my first turbo project and not planning to make massive power but to learn new tricks and experiment... The car is a -89 Golf and not a daily driver, but a project car that I use on street and track.

The plan is to build 1.8 8V engine with K03S turbo. Goal is to make ~200hp. To reduce weight I was wondering if anyone has ever used the VW 1.6 (100hp) aluminum block with forced induction? I could get one for almost free (code AKL). I have a 1.8t crank and a set of G60 pistons and rods with ARP bolts. These would fit straight in.

So, any ideas is it worth trying? Will I twist the whole block when doubling the engines output ? Would a girdle help? How much weight will I lost with this setup and is it worth it?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Karhu said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm planning to build my first turbo project and not planning to make massive power but to learn new tricks and experiment... The car is a -89 Golf and not a daily driver, but a project car that I use on street and track.
> 
> ...


The AKL is an open deck block. Without sleeving it I am not sure how well it would survive. Build it and let us know how it works out. You will need M10 head studs instead of M11 though.:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Karhu said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm planning to build my first turbo project and not planning to make massive power but to learn new tricks and experiment... The car is a -89 Golf and not a daily driver, but a project car that I use on street and track.
> 
> ...


 I dont see that being a problem much at all. 200hp is a fair goal. I'd be more than willing to help you with your project.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I dont see that being a problem much at all. 200hp is a fair goal. I'd be more than willing to help you with your project.


I was unaware that R.A.I. had experience with VW open deck aluminum blocks? Did you guys import some from South Africa/ Europe?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> I was unaware that R.A.I. had experience with VW open deck aluminum blocks? Did you guys import some from South Africa/ Europe?


R.A.I. doesn't. 

I do.:wave:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> R.A.I. doesn't.
> 
> I do.:wave:


Really? Who did you use for sleeves? How much power did you take it to on the OEM sleeves with nikasil coating?


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> Really? Who did you use for sleeves? How much power did you take it to on the OEM sleeves with nikasil coating?


Didn't use anyone. This was done a good 5~6yrs ago with a navy buddy who brought it back over the water with him in southern VA. Dyno'd it at All Aspects and based on how that dyno read with stock cars....i estimated the car to be making 230~240bhp. Used an old IHI turbo from a ford svo. I've lost touch with the guy. Last i checked he was in Cali somewhere. Car was sold.


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## Rosten-Performance (May 15, 2010)

AKL came with both open and closed deck.
And the cylinders are not Nickasil,it's an alusil block
No problem to bore and hone,we did it on all 3.
I have built 3 of these with old 16v heads from KR,PL engine
They were all kept normally aspirated 1600cc because of race rules
One of the blocks we threaded up to M11 and used 16v studs,on the other 2 we used M10 bolts from 1.8t (if i remember correct)
Quite alot weight savings with this block.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

Karhu said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm planning to build my first turbo project and not planning to make massive power but to learn new tricks and experiment... The car is a -89 Golf and not a daily driver, but a project car that I use on street and track.
> 
> ...



http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5119726-1.8-8v-turbo
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4939320-8v-bolt-on-Turbo-worth-it&highlight=8v+bolt+turbo


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## version1.655 (Mar 16, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> I was unaware that R.A.I. had experience with VW open deck aluminum blocks? Did you guys import some from South Africa/ Europe?





Issam Abed said:


> Really? Who did you use for sleeves? How much power did you take it to on the OEM sleeves with nikasil coating?











haven't been on here much lately, but i can see its the same people doing the same chit


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

version1.655 said:


> haven't been on here much lately, but i can see its the same people doing the same chit


 Hello FAT JOHN Perf, 
I am sorry you found flaw in me shooting holes through an advertisers lame attempt @ peddling some parts for a motor he is unfamiliar with. Why dont you go back and use the other alias screen names are familiar with. 

Where did the FI forum go? 



Rosten-Performance said:


> And the cylinders are not Nickasil,it's an alusil block


 Thank you for the correct Geir. I assumed Nikasil because of the PT V8 blocks. 



Rosten-Performance said:


> AKL came with both open and closed deck.


 Geir, 
do you happen to know the cross over year? I have imported ~16 of the blocks now over the last 5 years and all have been open deck. I would love to find them in closed deck as the other closed deck units (B6 A4) are very expensive to source.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> I am sorry you found flaw in me shooting holes through an advertisers lame attempt @ peddling some parts for a motor he is unfamiliar with.


 Who the hell are you to question my knowledge? Do you know me? No you don't. 

Show some fkn respect and stop letting your arrogance bleed through all your post.


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## version1.655 (Mar 16, 2010)




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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Less noise....more input. 
Giving me some long winded excuse about your best friends cousin son that was in the military is lame at best. 


[email protected] said:


> I dont see that being a problem much at all. *200hp is a fair goal*. I'd be more than willing to help you with your project.


 How do you know the OEM sleeves in the Aluminum block will hold up without any practical experience? There are only 2 companies in North America that have experience with these motors and I know for a fact you are not one of them. Who am I to question your knowledge? The same guy that has actually built many of these motors hence the skeptisim. See it as constructive rather than destructive.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> See it as constructive rather than destructive.


 How do i see this as constructive when you make closed minded comments like this. 



Issam Abed said:


> Less noise....more input.
> Giving me some long winded excuse about your best friends cousin son that was in the military is lame at best.





Issam Abed said:


> I am sorry you found flaw in me shooting holes through an advertisers lame attempt @ peddling some parts for a motor he is unfamiliar with.





Issam Abed said:


> I was unaware that R.A.I. had experience with VW open deck aluminum blocks? Did you guys import some from South Africa/ Europe?


 



Issam Abed said:


> How do you know the OEM sleeves in the Aluminum block will hold up without any practical experience? There are only 2 companies in North America that have experience with these motors and I know for a fact you are not one of them. Who am I to question your knowledge? The same guy that has actually built many of these motors hence the skeptisim.


 Define practical experience...because to me you're just a "parts finder." If you had taken the time to put together soooo "many" of these then maybe just maybe you'd see that YES 200bhp is a fair goal not a lofty one. You said there are 2 "companies" with experience. That doesn't mean JACK SHT. There many people even on this forum with tons more experience in various areas not just engines and zero relation to any company. Unless you're CIA you can't base my experience off the company i am with because you don't know where i've been.


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## version1.655 (Mar 16, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Define practical experience...because to me you're just a "parts finder." If you had taken the time to put together soooo "many" of these then maybe just maybe you'd see that YES 200bhp is a fair goal not a lofty one. You said there are 2 "companies" with experience. That doesn't mean JACK SHT. *There many people even on this forum with tons more experience in various areas not just engines and zero relation to any company.* Unless you're CIA you can't base my experience off the company i am with because you don't know where i've been.


 exactly what I always tried to explain to a lot of people on here. Just because you don't see some form of engine build or anything of that matter posted on a forum, or by some company, doesn't mean it hasn't been done by a sole person, or people, in the luxury of their own garage. Not everyone is all about *"forum certification"*


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## Karhu (Mar 27, 2001)

Thanks guys! 

I've studied the issue a little more and stumbled into the first obstacle. There is probably not enough space for the 1.8 crank after all: 

http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af136/original_danster/DSC00481.jpg 

The picture is with 1.6 crank, so pretty tight fit as you can see... Would have been fun to try though...


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## version1.655 (Mar 16, 2010)

Karhu said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> I've studied the issue a little more and stumbled into the first obstacle. There is probably not enough space for the 1.8 crank after all:
> 
> ...


 So use the 1.6 crank 
:screwy:it will rev faster and higher anyway


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## Rosten-Performance (May 15, 2010)

Karhu said:


> Thanks guys!
> 
> I've studied the issue a little more and stumbled into the first obstacle. There is probably not enough space for the 1.8 crank after all:
> 
> ...


 Should not be a problem with the 1.8 crank,i don't think the counterweights have much bigger diameter than the 77.4mm stroke AKL crank. 
If clearance problem,just shave of some from the crank with a lathe and maybe some minor grinding on the block. 
Besides the 1.8 crank is way better,not just because of the longer stroke but it also has 8 counterweights. 
The AKL uses 148mm rods,not so easy to find H-beam rods around with that size,so thats another reason for using the 1.8 crank. 

Issam,i am not sure when the crossover was for open/closed deck. 
Maybe it's a vw versus Audi thing? 
Audi A3 and A4 also i think use the AKL block,maybe with a different engine code. 
I have a feeling that the open deck came later.


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## version1.655 (Mar 16, 2010)

Rosten-Performance said:


> The AKL uses 148mm rods,*not so easy to find H-beam rods around with that size*


 Not true at all. If you decide to pull the trigger on this project using the 77.4mm crank, I know where you can get custom length rods for about the same price as off the shelf rods. If interested, send me a PM


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## Rosten-Performance (May 15, 2010)

Ofcourse they can be found 
Even i can make up 148mm rods just not for the same price as the 144mm though since it will be a custom order. 
But what's the point in using the 1.6 crank if he just plan to run it with a K03 (as he stated in the first post)


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## version1.655 (Mar 16, 2010)

Rosten-Performance said:


> Ofcourse they can be found
> Even i can make up 148mm rods just not for the same price as the 144mm though since it will be a custom order.
> But what's the point in using the 1.6 crank if he just plan to run it with a K03 (as he stated in the first post)


 True...this is such a pointless project this guy wants to make....seems real silly.....if he has the closed deck,and wanted to make some serious power with something like a 35r or bigger,than it would be worth it... 

*OP, you might as well just sell that block and use a regular engine. Let someone else use it who can really benefit from it*


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## Rosten-Performance (May 15, 2010)

Nah 
No projects is pointless,this is what he want's to do and i see no reason to critize that. 
Not everyone has the funds to go "all out" 
For anything,he will gain some weightloss with the alublock.


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## [email protected] (Aug 25, 2010)

Rosten-Performance said:


> Nah
> No projects is pointless,this is what he want's to do and i see no reason to critize that.
> Not everyone has the funds to go "all out"
> For anything,he will gain some weightloss with the alublock.


 agreed:beer:


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## version1.655 (Mar 16, 2010)

Rosten-Performance said:


> Nah
> No projects is pointless,this is what *he want's* to do and i see no reason to critize that.


says the guy who told him to use the 1.8t crank:screwy: 


Rosten-Performance said:


> For anything,he will gain some weightloss with the alublock.


sounds like one of them 17yr old honda ****. whats he gonna save, 30lbs if that on a 150hp car:thumbdown:


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## Rosten-Performance (May 15, 2010)

He wanted to use the 1.8 crank in the first place,just read his first post. 

To me it sounds like you are the 17year old Honda kid. 
What have you contributed with in this thread anyway? 

Besides,i guess it's more important with weight savings in his case since he is low on power.


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## Karhu (Mar 27, 2001)

OK, Hold on... 

As I mentioned this is my first turbo project and I'm just checking my options. The plan is to make a 8V turbo engine with decent topend power, minimum lag, etc... Budget is limited, so need to break the least expensive stuff first . 

What comes to the K03 is that I have one on the shelf. I also have option to a GT28RS from my friends Audi A4... Propable upgrade when I get stuff running first... 

Let's put it this way. I will use a 1.8t iron block if the 1.6 AKL alu-block is not up to the job. I can get the alu-block very cheap and any weight saving is a plus. This is why I ask. The block is only used with 100-105hp from the factory, so i'm skeptic... 



> if he has the closed deck,and wanted to make some serious power with something like a 35r or bigger,than it would be worth it...


 So here is the info I kind of asked. If I can find a closed deck 1.6 alu block it will take serious power? Then it will most def survive my power figures... 

First I try to make 200-220hp max. Then if it will hold up, I might try the disco potato and try the 300-350 mark... I'm not planning to go over that... Needs to be street and track drivable, not a big fan of 1/4 mileing... 

This 2.0 FSI block would be nice though, but goes over the budget  
http://forum.vwsport.com/pics/showgallery.php?cat=3207 

Thanks for the info so far!


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## Ross74h (Jun 19, 2011)

Hum, I have the AKL 100 block in my Polo. I thought it would be quite cool to make a "sleeper" turbo`d Polo estate.

I thought the AKL had some form of VVT though?


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## vento86 (Oct 13, 2008)

Too much bitching in this thread. Moar tech talk plzzz


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

This thread was funny....:laugh:
Here is an actual aluminum VW motor built for 3 bar 








Enjoy:thumbup:


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

Cool. Anyone have any actual weights of a 1.6 alu-block vs a 1.8/2.0 iron-block? I remember recently reading about Toyota's introduction of the 1ZZ engine and how it's 70 pounds lighter than the last gen iron block setup (not sure about any head weight differences, but figure it's been alu before..). 70 pounds wouldn't be too shabby at all, but as it is, our iron blocks aren't all that heavy seemingly (how much does an aba block weigh anyway?)


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## MK2TDI (Feb 11, 2007)

Issam Abed said:


> This thread was funny....:laugh:
> Here is an actual aluminum VW motor built for 3 bar
> 
> 
> ...



Would love to see one of these in a mk1 rabbit or caddy. Any other pics Issam?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

MK2TDI said:


> Would love to see one of these in a mk1 rabbit or caddy. Any other pics Issam?


Sorry did not see this. Go on my facebook page and follow Josh's build. Car is putting down approx 350+whp right now . He is going to go for a retune once the GTX3076R goes on but as of right now we have documented proof that these aluminum blocks will do 500+ hp.

:thumbup: for facts > theory.


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

Did anything ever happen with your build? Im looking into piecing together a turbo build for my 1.6l rebuild. Its the original engine that came with the pickup and Im looking for 150hp+ for hauling motorcycles as a recovery vehicle, good highway cruising power, and fuel economy. I built the motor up with a K cam and new seals top to bottom. Its an OLD counterflow head, and my first "turbo build" so Im looking for all the info I can find! Hope you went somewhere with this! Sounds like a cool project!


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