# Sunroof Dial (just spins) [TOC done]



## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

Hi!
Today I got in my Phaeton and went to open the sunroof and the sun roof dial just spins in a complete circle and does not catch anything.








I am curious if anybody else has had this problem? Or have they heard of the switch "Potentiometer" malfunctioning? 
Any insight would be helpful.. Thanks!
- Adrian










*ARCHIVAL NOTE:
*
See post #4 for an explanation of how the sunroof dial control is held in the roof control panel, and see post #26 for an explanation about how to implement an inexpensive jury-rig fix if some of the tangs on the roof control panel that hold the dial in place have been damaged.

Michael


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## Phat Cat (Dec 25, 2004)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (VWGlf00GL)*

Mine isn't that far gone but it is on it's way. It doesn't align properly and it feels tentative. I treat it with kid gloves.


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (Phat Cat)*

Hi Phat!
Yea, this just started today. The knob has been loose for some time, and felt like it was on it's way out, well today was the day. 
Car goes in tomorrow (hopefully) for a handbrake issue. When driving the car, I get a message on the instrument panel (Release Hand Brake) and the BRAKE light flashes on the car. I know the Parking Brake is not enabled/on. This has been a PITA, driving down the highway and the car is complaining. So I just turn the music up to not hear the noise, all will be fixed soon (okay, enough of that rant). At the same time I'll have the VW Dealer inspect the knob and proceed with repairs accordingly. 
I called my Extended Warranty provider to inquire about warranty related coverage. They stated the part is covered; as it's a "manually operated switch". However, I need to have the issuing dealer inspect and advise on a resolution of the non-functioning knob. 
Okay, that's all for now.. Thanks again Phat Cat!!
- Adrian


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (VWGlf00GL)*

The sunroof control knob is held in place in the front overhead panel assembly by three plastic tangs - these are shown in the photo below, which shows the 'top side' of the sunroof control knob.If the knob itself is broken, this is no big problem, it is simple to replace and the knob is inexpensive - it is the same part that is used on all other VW products.

If one or more of the tangs have broken (this only happens as a result of abuse, impact, or excessive force being used on the sunroof knob), then the entire front overhead panel assembly needs to be replaced. This is fairly simple to do, but the part is expensive - about $500.

More information here: Mirror, Front Overhead Control Panel Assembly Removal Instructions.

Michael
*Sunroof Control Dial (yellow object) and retaining tangs*


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (PanEuropean)*

Michael, you really are a gem.. Ask and one shall receive!! 
Well, I don't know if that piece is damaged or not. After further inspection of my sunroof dial knob, the controller is not properly seated where the dial spins. This would explain way I had problems from day 1, the knob did not just feel right. It felt flimsy when I operated the sun roof dial.








We'll see what the dealer says!!








-Adrian 


_Modified by VWGlf00GL at 8:48 AM 7-18-2008_


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

This console must be a sensitive piece. 
When I bought my Phaeton the wheel spun and was loose, and both square lights were falling out at the sides.
Dealer replaced the whole unit I believe under factory warranty.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (VWGlf00GL)*

Adrian:
If it appears to you that the yellow object in your photo (the sunroof control switch mechanism) is solidly retained in the roof assembly, then all you will have to replace is the sunroof dial assembly itself, which is the inexpensive and simple to replace part. I don't know whether or not the knob is sold separately from the yellow part that is the actual switch - I suspect not.
Michael


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## Auzivision (Apr 19, 2007)

When I purchased my Phaeton it had the same problem. VW replaced the entire switch assembly under warranty. Then one of the lights popped out and they fixed that as well. 
I rarely use the sunroom, but when I do... it’s with a gentle touch.


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (Auzivision)*

UPDATE: The dealer replaced the entire panel that controls the sun roof dial. However, after picking up the car last week, the sun roof shade does not open now and rear view mirror does not respond to the settings buttons (1,2 and 3).








Car goes back in tomorrow morning, so they can fix this issue and...
1. Bad TPMS Sensor driver rear tire. TPMS system reported a fault every morning. Initiated a "learn" cycle, system re-learned, then after about an hour or two, TPMS fault when starting the car again.
2. Driver side headlight goes in and out while driving. Dealer replaced the bulb and headlight continues to go in and out while driving.
3. Will request the Dealer to change the passenger head light (bulb), because one is significantly brighter than the other.
That's all for now.. Little VW Electrical Gremlin's poking around over here. 
- Adrian


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (VWGlf00GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGlf00GL* »_after picking up the car last week, the sun roof shade does not open now and rear view mirror does not respond to the settings buttons (1,2 and 3). 

Hi Adrian:
My guess is that the technician did not properly code (adapt) the new roof controller - he or she just took it out of the box and installed it. That's why it is not doing what it should do.
Michael


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hello Michael,
Thank you! 
I'll be sure to ask about the "adaptation" of the new roof controller. I noticed it took a few day for the convenience lights to work (when the doors open, the lights are on and enabled). 
Ya know, press the open door button, it turns orange, when doors are opened, the lights come on.. They go off when the driver door is closed. I hope it's a painless process. 
Would this cause the mirror to not move anymore as well? It was not adapted? 
Those are the only two things wrong with that area of the vehicle..
Thanks again for your comments, I like to go into the dealer educated..








- Adrian


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (VWGlf00GL)*

For further general information: 
How to adapt moving components (windows, seats, sunroof, trunk lid)


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hello Michael:
Update here; you were right! The new roof controller was not coded properly. So the tech had the old unit still, he plugged it in and wrote down the codes to re-code the new module all is working again, they also fixed the TPMS issue with the driver rear sensor. With the recoded controlled, the rear view mirror is working again.
Finally; the headlights.. They are going to replace both lights. This is normal "wear and tear" item. I was asked if I wanted to replace both lights or just one. Due to the labor involved, removing the front bumper to access the light housing, why change one and not the other. So I requested they change both bulbs..
End result: $646.00 later (with labor). The lights are $290.00 a piece from the dealer. For piece of mind, change them both. Why do the work twice when the non-replaced bulb will start to fail. Get it done in one work session, makes sense to me..
I pick her up tomorrow afternoon.
- Adrian 
Thanks again for your help here!!










_Modified by VWGlf00GL at 7:58 PM 8-6-2008_


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## car_guy (Aug 19, 2005)

*Re: (VWGlf00GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGlf00GL* »_Finally; the headlights.. They are going to replace both lights. This is normal "wear and tear" item. I was asked if I wanted to replace both lights or just one. Due to the labor involved, removing the front bumper to access the light housing, why change one and not the other. So I requested they change both bulbs..
End result: $646.00 later (with labor). The lights are $290.00 a piece from the dealer. For piece of mind, change them both. Why do the work twice when the non-replaced bulb will start to fail. Get it done in one work session, makes sense to me..

Why do they have to remove the bumper? See: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...84769 Post 3:32 PM 3-13-2008 
Since they don't, I would only get one changed.
Steven


_Modified by car_guy at 11:46 PM 8-6-2008_


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (car_guy)*

Hello Steven,
It's very possible the Service Advisor did now know what was involved. He mentioned something about a "service position". 
I thought to myself, there really HAS to be an easier way to change the bulbs. I noticed the housing when I cleaned my snow screens over the weekend. 
On a side note, cleaning those snow screens I've increased 2-3 MPG with city driving. They were really dirty and full of gunk.
I'll call the dealer tomorrow and ask for clarification on changing the bulb. The post you gave clearly show what needs to be done and it clearly does not involve removing the bumper at all. 
Thanks again Steven..
- Adrian


_Modified by VWGlf00GL at 8:58 PM 8-6-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (VWGlf00GL)*

Hello Adrian:
The VW service manual for the Phaeton (which is available to every VW technician in every dealership, as an on-line publication) provides very clear step-by step directions for replacing the headlight bulbs - and those directions most definitely do not include removing the bumper cover.
That same service manual provides very clear step by step directions explaining how to replace the roof controller, and those directions do state that the new controller has to be properly adapted (coded). It is not necessary to get the code from the old unit (although that is an acceptable way of doing things) - the VW diagnostic scan tool includes a 'guided function' that steps the technician through the process of coding the new controller based on simple questions and answers. For example:
1) Does the car have a sunroof?
2) Does the car have folding mirrors?
3) Does the car have a garage door opener?
...etc.
I think it is time that you had a respectful but firm conversation with the service manager at your VW dealer. Ask them to look up and show you the instructions for changing a headlight. Then ask them to look up and show you the VW recommended labour time to charge for changing a headlight. Then perhaps ask them how they feel about the fact that you had to come back again to get the roof controller job done properly because someone didn't bother to read and follow the instructions that were available to them.
I'm sorry, but both of the problems you have encountered are nothing more than plain, simple carelessness. There is no reason at all for you to pay for someone else's carelessness. The occasional mistake is forgivable -no-one is perfect - but a series of consecutive, careless errors is something that warrants correction and apologies to you, not forgiveness from you.
Michael


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hello Michael:
Checking with the dealer today, I got my Phaeton back.. They replaced both HID bulbs, not the high beam bulbs. This process did require removing the bumper/cover etc, to gain access to the outer light assembly.
I was able to see the procedure per the printout to gain access to the outer bulbs. It did not look fun at all. The Service Manager was not present when I arrived to pick my car. I sent him a firm, yet professional email about my recent service with their Dealership. I really like some of the folks down there, they take care of me and make me feel good when I walk in the door.
Arriving every other week for follow-up repair, issues that occur after a scheduled maintenance/service is unacceptable. Something else is not working: a button, a mirror, a feature/function as soon as I leave with the car. This workmanship is not very good quality control, "VW approved repair" on their part. 
I think I need to switch dealers as bad at that sounds; they started out very strong with repairs and maintenance. The Dealer has slowly gotten worse and worse with careless/costly mistakes that are not necessary. I know the tech works very hard and has so many hours in one day, so many cars to deal with..
I always stress each time I drop my car off. "No rush, please take your time. I can do without for week, week and half. Let's do it right so I don't have to come back next week for additional repair."
I don't like the car spending more time in the service shop; then in my garage or on the road with me in it. That's why I bought it.. These first few months have been frustrating just a bit. I really love my car and I want to enjoy it. 
Final thought..
The new lights look very good, going to take a week for them to "burn-in"; so we'll see the end result of new bulbs. Overall happy for now, I got her back and get to keep her until next week, then it's back in the shop again..








The rear mirror does not want to move to the right and it's giving us resistance when we want to move it manually. It moves very slooooow when using buttons 1, 2 and 3. I know for a fact the mirror was "a-ok" prior to all this work the past two weeks. They want to inspect it before ordering the rear view mirror assembly.








Okay, time to rest. 
- Adrian


_Modified by VWGlf00GL at 6:43 PM 8-7-2008_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (VWGlf00GL)*

Adrian:
Perhaps suggest to your VW service representative that he or she review the following "tech tip" that was published this week on the VW service site:
*TT 00-08-03*
All Models - Tip for Replacing a Control Module
If any vehicle control module is replaced for any concern, it is recommended to code that module according to guided fault finding before testing if the repair was successful. For example, if a door module was replaced for a battery drain, then that module must be coded before retest of the system. It is also recommended to recode the gateway module when another module is replaced to reset the communication system. 
Even if the coding seems to be correct, entering the code anew will force a reset of the system.
Michael


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## ZOG (Apr 5, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (VWGlf00GL)*

Just had my sunroof dial swapped out last week...it was spinning but if you held it 'just so' it would catch. Now it's all better, and no charge...covered by VW RealDriver/Fidelity warranty.


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## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (ZOG)*

Mine just broke yesterday. Going to the dealer on Friday 8/22/08 (appointment set up for other reasons). Has anyone had to pay for this repair? 56k on the clock, no more warrantee.


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (Hawkeye_Ben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hawkeye_Ben* »_Mine just broke yesterday. Going to the dealer on Friday 8/22/08 (appointment set up for other reasons). Has anyone had to pay for this repair? 56k on the clock, no more warrantee.









Hello Ben!
I am sorry to hear that your dial broke. I noticed the dial was broken a few Phaetons on eBay and Autotrader ads.
I have not had to pay for this repair; pre-owned warranty covered this. The dealer replaced the entire sun roof assembly for me. 
Something tells me this is the "front lamp assembly" and the price is around $705.00 to replace the entire thing (I don't think you need that). 
The potentiometer is the dial piece is around $112.40. I don't know how old my parts list documents are or the accuracy of it's prices. 
I suspect your assembly may be broken in the same spot where mine was (where those little 3 little hooks keep the potentiometer (dial) from being pushed up, keep the dial in place snug.
Michael said this repair is pretty expensive, he sure was right!! Thanks!!
- Adrian


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (VWGlf00GL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGlf00GL* »_I suspect your assembly may be broken in the same spot where mine was (where those little 3 little hooks keep the potentiometer (dial) from being pushed up, keep the dial in place snug.
Michael said this repair is pretty expensive, he sure was right!

There is an alternative to replacing the entire roof electrical control console (the expensive part), it is actually quite an attractive alternative if you enjoy working with your hands and doing detail work.
As Adrian pointed out, the part that normally breaks (and, to be fair to VW, I need to stress that it breaks when excessive force is applied, not due to any design or construction defect) is one of the three little tangs - what Adrian calls hooks - that stick up and retain the sunroof rotary control.
You can carry out a very effective 'repair' of this problem by carefully placing the sunroof rotary control into the tangs (two of which will be undamaged, and one of which will be cracked, but normally not sheared, at the base), then securing the cracked tang by wrapping the sunroof dial and tangs with two small cable-ties, one in the middle and one at the top.
This is a delicate repair. When you are tightening the cable ties, you have to make certain that you do not exert any sideways force on the cracked tang, otherwise, it will shear off. But, if you put the cable ties on correctly (like the steel bands you see around wooden barrels), they will retain the single cracked tang in the locked position, and this will keep the switch in the correct place. The cracked tang will still have quite a bit of strength in the up-and-down direction (where you want it), it just won't have any 'spring' left in the inward direction, to keep the hook over top of the switch. This is what you provide with the cable ties.
I cannot stress how important it is to put NO sideways (lateral, left-to-right) force on the cracked tang when you are tightening the cable tie. Don't overdo the tightening - all you need to do is be snug enough to keep the barb at the top of the tang engaged over the top of the sunroof rotary switch. You don't have to reef it down.
A tiny drop of glue (conventional adhesive, not cyanoacrylate) will keep the cable tie in position on the three tangs, and prevent it from vibrating downward when the vehicle is in motion.
Michael


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## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Thanks for the instructions for the less expensive repair. My dealer quoted me $1250 to do the repair. Almost $1000 for parts.
I can't be as kind to Volkswagen, this dial never experienced any excessive force. I do (did) use the sunroof most every day this time of year.
Thanks again for the tip.
Ben


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (Hawkeye_Ben)*

I repaired a sunroof dial today, using the procedures I explained above. I'll post some pictures in the near future, but it will take a while (some in-service experience) to see if the repair was successful or not.
Michael


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## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
I am guessing that the repair was not successful since you did not post any pictures. The winter will end soon and I will have to do something to get my sunroof working.
Ben


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## CLMims (Jul 13, 2007)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (Hawkeye_Ben)*

Hi Ben,
Another option which I have found to work is to use the two gray tabs (seen in the picture above) to put pressure on the switch and hold it down; I used a cheap Bic disposable pen:








Steps to follow:
1. Remove the ink portion of the pen (sometimes it will twist out by hand, but you might need to <gently> use a pair of pliers
2. Cut the [now empty] pen tube so tha it is long enough to fit under each gray tab
3. With the switch in place, hook one side under a tab, then carefully bend the pen so that it fits under the other side (there will be some curvature over the plug recepticle - it is not a straight fit across)
4. Once the switch is secure, carefully mount the remote antenna back on top
I've had this in place in my car for 1.5 years without a problem - I think it secures the switch better than the three hooks!


















_Modified by CLMims at 6:25 PM 2-15-2009_


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## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (CLMims)*

Thanks. That option is a lot better than paying my dealer $1200 to fix the problem. The weather will get nice soon and I will want to open the sunroof.
Ben


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## VWGlf00GL (Feb 14, 2005)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (Hawkeye_Ben)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hawkeye_Ben* »_Thanks. That option is a lot better than paying my dealer $1200 to fix the problem. The weather will get nice soon and I will want to open the sunroof.
Ben

Hello Ben!
Yes, the repair is VERY expensive indeed. I found this on eBay just a few minutes ago, not $1,200.00 bucks, but the owner gets an entire replacement module.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors..._1175
Thanks, have a great weekend.


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## Hawkeye_Ben (Aug 17, 2008)

*Re: Sunroof Dial (Hawkeye_Ben)*

Thanks CLMims.
I just completed the Bic pen fix on my sunroof switch and it seems to be working perfectly. The weather is nice here in the Midwest so I became motivated to get the sunroof operational.
Although the $130 switch was still outrageously priced, this was far far cheaper than the $1200 the dealer wanted to fix the problem.
Thanks again, I couldn't be happier. If you are ever in Fort Wayne IN, I'd happily buy you a beer.
Ben


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## paxtora (Apr 7, 2008)

*Sunroof Dial Repair ink pen barrel*

Repaired the Sunroof Dial using ink pen barrel method outlined in post "Sunroof Dial (Hawkeye_Ben) 02-15-2009 08:16 PM #26". The instructions provided by Hawkeye_Ben's post work as described.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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## Jerryl McCoy (May 21, 2013)

*Greetings Fellow Phaeton Owners!!!*

I recently had this same problem with my sunroof dial. What I found was that the tabs holding the yellow and black relay switch in place broke(2 out of 3). I followed the illustrations on the site and it is back in operational status. It seemed kind of crazy to use a piece of a Bik pin to help hold the relay firmly in place with the homelink xmitter clamped down on top of it, but it worked like a charm. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do not to spend $400 dollars plus on parts and labor. I have a 2004 V8 with 151k miles on it and its starting to show its age with the electronics starting to go haywire. I have to keep my steering wheel in a certain position or I will encounter the infamous Steering Workshop Defective error, in which case I just adjust it back to a position that it excepts. My Navigation disc player will not read the maps disc, so I only get the Please Insert A Disc message when I press the navigation key. The trunk lid is very difficult to open after you release it from the drivers door, you literally have to squeeze your fingers under the lip to pull it up and then its like lifting weights to raise it up. (and I'm just getting started). My rear power shade has broken on one side, it's still functional and extends up and down without a problem, but when it's up there's kind of a drooping look on one side. My check engine light is on after spending $1300 on a tuneup, new gas cap and air filters. I guess I'm looking at o2 sensors next after I save another mint for repairs. But overall The body work, interior and overall performance is great. I wished they would bring them back here to the US. If anyone can point me in the right direction for these repairs PLEASE, PLEASE let me know.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Jerryl McCoy said:


> It seemed kind of crazy to use a piece of a Bik pin to help hold the relay firmly in place with the homelink xmitter clamped down on top of it, but it worked like a charm.


Hi Jerry:

Welcome to the forum community.

Chris Mims really hit the ball out of the park when he came up with that 'Bic Pen' fix for the broken sunroof tabs. It really is the perfect solution.

Concerning the electronics problems that you described - given the age and mileage of your car, you might be best to just learn to live with those, because the expense to repair them might be unreasonable. Perhaps you could find another navigation CD reader from a salvage yard and replace it (thus solving your navigation problem) - it is very easy to re and re the navigation CD reader (there is a post describing how to do it in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category)).

Concerning the 'difficult to operate' trunk lid, we have figured out a fix for that, it's basically a lubrication issue. Have a look at this post, which is also listed in the FAQ: Trunk Lid Requires Excessive Effort to Close. Worst case, you might have to replace one or both of the two gas struts on either side of the trunk hinges, but most likely, you will be able to solve the problem just by cleaning and lubricating the trunk hinges and lubricating the pistons of the gas struts.

Michael


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Jerry,

Michael has created a useful Table of Contents for the forum, which you can find as a sticky thread on the first page.

If you search the TOC using your browser's text search function (usually Ctrl-F) and look for "Steering Fault", you will find a fix for the most common cause of steering column position problems.

Cheers,
Chris


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

In post #4 I tried to pull up info for removing the "front overhead control panel" and the info was not available. Is this info now found elsewhere?

Cantrell


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Cantrell:

For reasons unknown, that link was broken. It pointed to a post that is listed in the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category), specifically, Mirror, Front Overhead Control Panel Assembly Removal Instructions.

I have fixed the broken link in post #4 above, thanks for pointing it out.

Michael


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## Cantrellc123 (Aug 5, 2012)

Hello Michael,

Thank you for taking the time to provide us all with access to this link again.

Cantrell


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