# Engine misfire after w/m usage?



## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

I've got a TSI with a Ko4 and the snow performance w/m setup...

It runs great when the system is on and is a monster when running the 100 octane file.

However after running it hard with the w/m system activated, when I go back to the car after letting it sit for a while the idle jumps back and forth and when I try to get on the gas the power cuts in and out with a flashing cel light... Then it all clears and the car runs completely fine. 

If I just leave the w/m off the car is completely fine... But as soon as I run the w/m then shut the car off it does this again when I restart it... Then it clears... Could it be residual meth? Can it be affecting the idler valve?

Also after running hard with a 15 minute track session... I could completely deplete my w/m tank which is the washer fluid tank... Am I spraying too much?


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

So no ideas?


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

It is not inconceivable that you would deplete the washer reservoir in 15 minutes on the track when repeatedly at WOT. What size are your nozzle(s) and where are you spraying?

It sounds like you are having issues with siphoning, but you didn't mention your W/M setup and what components you're using, so it's hard to say.


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

TheBossQ said:


> It is not inconceivable that you would deplete the washer reservoir in 15 minutes on the track when repeatedly at WOT. What size are your nozzle(s) and where are you spraying?
> 
> It sounds like you are having issues with siphoning, but you didn't mention your W/M setup and what components you're using, so it's hard to say.


I have a Snow Performance system. It is also based on boost rather than MAF. I don't know the nozzle size because it was installed by someone else. I do know that it is installed into the tube going into the throttle body... 

Would I still have siphoning issues with the system off? or just with one cycle/ engine start after using the system then the rest of the cycles/ starts after that are fine until I turn the system back on again? Maybe shut the w/m off several minutes prior to shutting the car down can fix it?


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## TheBossQ (Aug 15, 2009)

There shouldn't be siphoning issues, but if you don't have a check valve, I would add one to the system just in case. 

If it's running ok, your nozzle size is probably fine. I would start with the check valve kit to ensure you aren't leaking w/m when it's not intended.

Check valve kit is like $25-30 from AEM and other companies as well. From what I've seen, unless it's an electric solenoid, all the check valves are the same no matter where you get them. The only difference is cracking pressures. Some open at 15psi, some 22psi, etc. (meaning your W/M pump line pressure, not turbo boost pressure).


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2011)

you should never spray immediately before the throttle on a drive by wire because you will short electrical components and cause a bigger problem. Secondly what boost pressure are you triggering the system at? What is your maximum point? 

You should remove the nozzle holder and let me know what nozzle size you are using. The nozzle size can be found on the flat part of the nozzle, it is normally a number or color coated. The problem with buying these kind of kits either second hand or from an inexperienced dealer is just the mash up of parts that do not function well together.

We recomend you using our throttle body spacer plate to have nozzle placement post throttle to avoid damage. Its not like you can drill into your plastic manifold either. You would then need a Solenoid Upgrade to keep from siphoning at idle.


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

The tech that installed the kit told me they used the middle size for the nozzle that is included in the kit... It is pretty much tapped into the pipe going to the throttle body in the same spot that the BSH throttle body pipe has a w/m tap built into...

The kit is based on boost and they set it to start spray at 4psi and full spray after 15psi...

The only thing I don't have is the solenoid to prevent siphoning... Is this siphoning causing this?

Haven't turned the w/m on for the past 2 weeks and even after hard driving I'm not having any issues at all... But running the 100 oct file with w/m on is just too addicting so it would be nice to get this sorted out


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2011)

pandavw86 said:


> The tech that installed the kit told me they used the middle size for the nozzle that is included in the kit... It is pretty much tapped into the pipe going to the throttle body in the same spot that the BSH throttle body pipe has a w/m tap built into...
> 
> The kit is based on boost and they set it to start spray at 4psi and full spray after 15psi...
> 
> ...


To further help you I would need to know your exact nozzle size that you are running. Remove your nozzle holder, and there should be a number on the flat part of the nozzle or color coated.

Where your tap is on the throttle body pipe how far away from the throttle body is it? if it is anything less then 12inches away i would say it is too close and could possibly damaging your throttle body or sending mixed signals because it is getting wet.

The siphoning would not cause such noticeable problems such as CEL flashing and such.

I would also recommend switching your controller to MAF based rather then MAP based. On a smaller turbo such as a ko3 or ko4 the MAP doesn't give a accurate read then when MAF based. Also starting spray at 4psi is a little early. I would highly recommend switching to MAF based


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2011)

Also remember, our throttle body spacer plate is post throttle body, so it avoids any kind of damage that could be caused to the throttle body. Just a safe way to save $500


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## stevegti06 (Apr 12, 2007)

I had the same issues, I never had a valve in the lead to keep the meth from running (after shut off) into the piping and just sitting there till next start up. Misfires, black smoke and basically a feeling of going into limp mode till I drove the car for like 5 minutes and clearing the excess meth out. When I had the controller unplugged the car ran perfectly fine but plug it in an back to the same problem. Had a seliniod installed in the line and no problems with that issue since.


http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=20


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## [email protected] (Aug 1, 2011)

stevegti06 said:


> I had the same issues, I never had a valve in the lead to keep the meth from running (after shut off) into the piping and just sitting there till next start up. Misfires, black smoke and basically a feeling of going into limp mode till I drove the car for like 5 minutes and clearing the excess meth out. When I had the controller unplugged the car ran perfectly fine but plug it in an back to the same problem. Had a seliniod installed in the line and no problems with that issue since.
> 
> 
> http://www.snowperformance.net/product.php?pk=20


u have pm


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

I need a VW/ Audi socal tuning shop that is familiar with w/m to have the install looked at and get things sorted out... And properly log the car...Any ideas? 

I can DIY, just don't have the space or the time for it


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

Ok finally had a different tech look at the nozzle size after getting an oil change for me, he told me that there where no markings on the nozzle to say what size it was. He did tell me however that it is in the correct position compared to the kits they have done in the past...

So maybe I should just buy a new nozzle to rule out the potential of having the wrong size nozzle? Maybe even the check valve to prevent pooling?

So what nozzle size should I get if I have a TSI engine with a Ko4 pushing 320hp at the wheels on the 100 oct file using 91 pump gas + w/m on a single nozzle setup?


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

So any ideas on nozzle size?


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

Just a shot in the dark, but you are probably running a 175ml nozzle, if what they said was the middle size that came with the kit.


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## pandavw86 (Mar 29, 2010)

SCIROCCO SPEED said:


> Just a shot in the dark, but you are probably running a 175ml nozzle, if what they said was the middle size that came with the kit.


Any ideas on what nozzle size I should be running?


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## SCIROCCO SPEED (Dec 6, 2002)

pandavw86 said:


> Any ideas on what nozzle size I should be running?


well, if you're running a 100 oct program, a K04, and have rods, i would say probably a 225ml nozzle. 

BUT... first and foremost, make sure you're not siphoning any w/m to begin with. 

In all honesty, i wouldn't worry about getting the next size nozzle right away, run some logs and see if how your timing pull is looking, as well as IATs. the USRT guys seem to be the go to guys on this subject, don't be afraid to ask them.


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