# 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (NOT ABA, NOT 9A, NOT G60, etc)



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

1.8T 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer block (NOT ABA, NOT 9A, NOT G60, etc)
I know there's several threads (and one really big one) on the subject
of 20/20 conversion. However, 98% of that only centers around pre MK4 motors. 
One of the biggest difference MK4 motors *DO NOT require* plugging 
any oil drain holes in the 20v head (among other differences).
I'd like to consolidate the MK4 conversion info into this thread.
This swap should be alot easier and shouldn't have all the extra 
details associated with older motor conversions confusing others researching this conversion.
I'll post later with any MK4 specific info from the big 20v thread and all the info I have on this subject.
BIG THREAD - 20V Hybrid - How To
Thanks,
Rey
edit: *Let me start off with this:*
The biggest problem that we have to get past which will convince 99%
of you just starting research NOT to go through with it is this.... 
you *CAN NOT* use the stock 2.0L pistons as they are. The stock pistons 
will NOT clear the middle intake valve on the 
20v head (at least not with safe tolerance). You have 2 choices:
1) modify the stock pistons by machining a notch relief to clear the valve
2) buy custom pistons
I won't get into reasons for going with either now, BUT either choice REQUIRES 
removing the pistons from the block. This also involves at least prep honing 
the cylinders and new pistons rings that you need to properly gap.
*LIST OF MEMBERS THAT HAVE DONE THIS SWAP:*
1) 
2)
3)


_Modified by elRey at 3:03 PM 2-25-2010_


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## Boostin20v (Mar 22, 2000)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

FYI/FWIW Eurospec Sports's 2.0l 20v engines are all AEG blocks.


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (Boostin20v)*

It can be done easily. 
Use a regular 1.8t timing belt. 
Using a stock 1.8t headgasket you get ~7.8:1 compression. Using an AEB headgasket you get ~8.5:1 compression. 
The stock pistons must be notched to clear the 5th valve. 
If you retrofit the 2.0 CPS to the 20v head it can be run off 2.0 engine management and coil w/ longer spark plug wires. Just build a custom intake pipe w/ maf and custom exhaust manifold. 
... internally don't bother with the stock pistons and rods. The stock pistons are extremely weak. The stock rods are the same as the 1.8t in strength. Replace them. Talk to Rodney @ JRC about internals he has done all the match and done these pistons for a 20/20 many times. 
http://www.jrcmotorsports.com/


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_Use a regular 1.8t timing belt.

Is there a tooth count difference b/w the 1.8T and 2.0 belt?


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_Using a stock 1.8t headgasket you get ~7.8:1 compression. Using an AEB headgasket you get ~8.5:1 compression. 

 
Would using a 1.8 head gasket require boring it out for the larger cyc bore?
Why not use a 2.0 gasket? cr? 3 oil passage holes need to be added to the gasket... easier than boring cyc clearance tho 

_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_The stock pistons must be notched to clear the 5th valve. 


_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_Intake valve diameter 26.95mm
Center valve 15 degrees*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_If you retrofit the 2.0 CPS to the 20v head it can be run off 2.0 engine management and coil w/ longer spark plug wires.

Can the 2.0 management not run the 1.8T CPS? Just splice correct connector?
What about injectors? Can the 2.0 management run the 1.8T injectors?
Or can the 2.0 injectors be used w/ the 1.8T intake mani and rail?
Thanks for the great info.
Rey


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
Is there a tooth count difference b/w the 1.8T and 2.0 belt?
*I am sure there is. The 20v head is taller and the pulley is located further back. The tensioners also differ tremendously. *
Would using a 1.8 head gasket require boring it out for the larger cyc bore?
*Technically, you would want to open the gakset up a little bit. It's only like a MM on each side and could be done easily with a dremel or die grinder given that the gasket was well supported - IE don't do this on your lap. *
Why not use a 2.0 gasket? cr? 3 oil passage holes need to be added to the gasket... easier than boring cyc clearance tho 
*Not sure what the CR would be on the 2.0 gasket. Ask Rodney @ JRC. He's got the volume #'s worked out. The 2.0 gasket blocks off the passages in the rear. Ideally you want these 3 passages as they help with crankcase pressure venting. *
Can the 2.0 management not run the 1.8T CPS? Just splice correct connector?
*I haven't tried. I was going to do this but sold the car. My brother has it now and may do this when he can afford it. You would need to measure the different sensors and see what's up. You probably could use the 1.8t sensor as long as you splice the right connector and don't use a VVT one.* 
What about injectors? Can the 2.0 management run the 1.8T injectors?
Or can the 2.0 injectors be used w/ the 1.8T intake mani and rail?
*2.0 management can run any injectors with the right chip. 2.0 injectors can be run with the stock 1.8t fuel rail no problem. *


The real crux here is engine management. There are little to no 'chip' options for the AEG/AZG/AVH 2.0. There's nothing for a 20/20. Your only option for boost sofware is ATP (sucks) or EIP (uses Boost FPR). Still neither will be perfect. EIP can do custom software for you but you'll need to leave the car with them for a while. For $1500 you might as well go standalone. 
Evan


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_
The real crux here is engine management. There are little to no 'chip' options for the AEG/AZG/AVH 2.0. There's nothing for a 20/20. Your only option for boost sofware is ATP (sucks) or EIP (uses Boost FPR). Still neither will be perfect. EIP can do custom software for you but you'll need to leave the car with them for a while. For $1500 you might as well go standalone. 
Evan 

Sorry. I had it in my mind due to my personal project timeline, that if 2.0 management would even be considered, it would be for a NA application (a temp situation/phase for me). Like one step in the complete conversion ending with a 20v head and turbo.
I wasn't even thinking 20/20 turbo'ed management yet.
Rey


_Modified by elRey at 2:02 PM 2-11-2006_


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

Nice... a GIAC chip owuld probably do well coupled with a Perfect Power SMT6 piggyback for slight adjustments of timing and fuel http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## randallhb (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (2kjettaguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2kjettaguy* »_The real crux here is engine management. There are little to no 'chip' options for the AEG/AZG/AVH 2.0. There's nothing for a 20/20. Your only option for boost sofware is ATP (sucks) or EIP (uses Boost FPR). Still neither will be perfect. EIP can do custom software for you but you'll need to leave the car with them for a while. For $1500 you might as well go standalone. Evan 

What about the NS SC chip, if I recall correctly you ran in in a 2.0T engine








Or what about the stock 1.8T AEB software?, it was driver by cable.


_Modified by randallhb at 7:53 PM 2-12-2006_


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## 2kjettaguy (Dec 24, 2000)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (randallhb)*

No Way on the NS SC chip. 
Knowledge and experience after that turbo project tells me that software was nowhere near correct for what I was doing. 
1.8t software won't work if you're doing this to a 2.0. If you're doing this to a 1.8t then yes, it will. 
Evan


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## randallhb (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (Boostin20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_FYI/FWIW Eurospec Sports's 2.0l 20v engines are all AEG blocks. 

So, what software Eurospec uses for those engines.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (randallhb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *randallhb* »_So, what software Eurospec uses for those engines.

I don't believe they offer any software for their engines. They just give you the hardware and leave you to fend for yourself on the software side.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

I'll put any info I can scavenge from the BIG 20/20 thread in this reply.
All the following sourced from: BIG THREAD - 20V Hybrid - How To
-------------------------------------------------------

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Well same principal applies if you dont want to spend money on pistons.Your CR IS going to drop from 10:1 to 8.5:1 when you place the 20V on the AEG bottom end.
I wouldnt bother buying an "OEM" exhaust manifold when there are tons of decent fabricators all over vortex that can build you a decent extractor for less than what you would pay if you were to import an OEM unit.Talk to Silly SOHC for all your fabrication needs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

Now for a few items I found during my continuing research:
Here are some parts that will need to be replaced with 1.8t specific
parts beyond head & mani's (assuming end product will be 20v with stock turbo):
- oil filter bracket (OR find different source for turbo oil feed)
- coolant pipe on from of block (needed to clear turbo inlet pipe)
- remove or relocate sec. air pump (1.8T hoses/bracket)
- most of the coolant lines
- all of the vac lines
- coolant supply hole drilled into back of block for turbo (OR find different source)
- oil pan w/ oil return connection (or modify 2.0 pan)
- downpipe


_Modified by elRey at 9:28 AM 7-4-2006_


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

Is thread working anymore?
OKOKOK








So I have a decked (.01") AEG block and I was wondering if this was going to make it practically impossible to modify the pistons so much in order to clear the valves on the 20v head?


_Modified by twicepardoned at 12:16 PM 7-4-2006_


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## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (twicepardoned)*

I was under the impression that AEG cranks are cast, not forged? Is this correct? Is it worth using if it isn't forged?


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (Hugh Gordon)*

I'm pretty sure they are cast as well.
I hear what you need is aeg headgasket (although 1.8t will work and make even lower CR) and you can use aeg timing belt. You WILL need pistons, that is something everyone here can agree on. Stock AEG ECU MIGHT make the head WORK, but it won't make it work WELL.
So engine management's the biggest obstacle as of now.
Anyone selling/fabricating rods/pistons for this project? AND can we organise a group buy?


_Modified by Kougaiji at 3:13 PM 7-4-2006_


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (Kougaiji)*

I'll be in the market for a buy sooner or later... but I'll going piece by piece rather than diving head first.


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

Do you still need to mess with pistons if you use the thicker 20v headgasket?


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

I wanna keep this going... I don't see how you'd have to do any piston modification if you used a thick gasket or stacked 2. There are plenty of people who stack gaskets without any trouble...
So if clearance is the problem and gaskets can create more clearance then there shouldn't be an issue.... BUT of course I'd really like to hear that from someone who truly understands the 20v conversion!


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_thicker head gasket....
1) Compare deck height of 2.0L vs 1.8T
2) Find out how deep the relief would need to be
3) Compare head gasket thickness b/w 2.0L and 1.8T
adding all that together + stock thickness of head gasket will give
you required thickness of new head gasket to clear intake valve.
My rough guess is ~1.5mm - 2mm thicker than stock.
I don't think it's a good idea.
1) CR will be way low
2) more chance to blow the gasket under boost
3) completely screws up squish/quench
4) head bolts?
5) timing belt?
link for piston design considerations: http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/94138/
Rey


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

My niaveness will have to prevail here because I have no clue what a squish/quench is??? explain please.







*stupid, stupid, stupid*
Other than that, I think you may have a good point and maybe just doing a bit of custom work on the pistons wouldn't be so bad after all! 








NEVER MIND>>... I'm an even bigger idiot because I just followed your link and discovered what squish quench is....







*stupid, stupid, stupid*


_Modified by twicepardoned at 8:07 AM 7-5-2006_


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

OK so I've read the article now... basically, to sum it up, they are saying that (in my instance) If I use a thicker head gasket to compensate for piston/valve clearance I am creating a larger quench which will produce a less efficient mixture and thus I will be sacrificing minimal but crucial horse power, torque and most importantly fuel mileage!!!!!
Very insightful article... I certainly will NOT be using a thicker gasket. I am 100% convinced that it will be much more beneficial to do minor modification to the pistons (or simply buy ones for this application). 
Thanks Elrey!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

So once you have the 20v and all the little parts... will the head bolts line up properly though?
Also what abought the accesories like the intake and exhaust... I assume you have to use 1.8T's equipment as well????


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_So once you have the 20v and all the little parts... will the head bolts line up properly though?
Also what abought the accesories like the intake and exhaust... I assume you have to use 1.8T's equipment as well????

That's a positive on all counts.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (Kougaiji)*

So in order for this to work you practically have to have the entire top end of a 1.8T???
I think this means I will really be taking my time putting this project together. LOL








Granted I don't think I want to put a 20v and a turbo setup on a stock 2.0 block... because sooner than later I imagine I'd find myself ticked when I blew the bottom end out.


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_So in order for this to work you practically have to have the entire top end of a 1.8T???
I think this means I will really be taking my time putting this project together. LOL








Granted I don't think I want to put a 20v and a turbo setup on a stock 2.0 block... because sooner than later I imagine I'd find myself ticked when I blew the bottom end out.

You're safe with AT LEAT 19 psi, most likely more.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Are you saying that a stock AEG block could handle almost 19psi??? That's crazy... what HP range does that put a person in? 200-250? depending on other mods I assume.


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

Yeah, at least the bottom end can.
Don't worry about your bottom end too much right now unless you start heading closer to the 300hp range.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

OK so here's another question: when it comes time to turbo charge do I want to use a 1.8T manifold??? and if that's true you could just use the entire turbo setup from a 1.8T... granted it's a weak as hell setup but it is possible right?


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Hmm... manifolds (exhaust/intake) should be 20v manifolds, but do remember, however, that the 20vs are out of Passats and certain Audis. Things may be arranged differently, fitment might be a little different. But if stuff looks the same under the hood, there should be no other issues.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

20v head requires 20v manifolds whether they be from a jetta/gti, passat/audi a4, or audi tt 180/225.
For simplicity, best from a jetta/gti or audi tt 180.
8v manifolds WILL NOT bolt up to a 20v head.
If you intend to go N/A or aftermarket turbo, you'll more than likely need
a custom exhaust mani.
cheapest turbo route is to go all stock 1.8T stuff used. Will not get you much power, but cheap.
cheapest NA route is to use stock 1.8T stuff and have a custom connecting pipe fab'ed from 1.8T exhaust mani to your stock downpipe. Not the best for power, but I said cheapest.
With any of these options, you'll still need to modify your stock pistons to get the 20v head on.
We haven't even discussed wiring issues or software.
But focus on the modifying/custom pistons obstacle. If you can't swallow that, don't think about this swap any longer.
Rey


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

Maybe its partially mentality... But for me it just doesn't seem like the pistons would be as big of an issue. I've helped change pistons in a friends Probe (I hate those cars) but it didn't seem to difficult... Other than the inability for him to drive his car for about a week.
The only thing that sounds difficult to me is finding a donor car to use. Because I am not going to garage my car for months and swap a piece at a time. When I do it I'm doing it all at one time. 
I'll probably take a week of vacation time from work and smash it out with 2 or 3 friends in a week and couple days.
In fact I just has a friend in KC who was hit in the side in his Passat. It was the turbo also. But unfortunately instead of buying it back from the insurance company he sold it to them!!! So I'm currently chasin g that wreck down and trying to buy it from the insurance co.
I just wish I would have known before he signed it off. I think they paid like $500 or something small like that.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

*twicepardoned* are your plans NA or turdo?


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

Curreently I'm NA but obviously the end result would have to be Turbo.
I'm ok with starting on a basic setup using the top end of a 1.8T on a 2.0 block... And turn up the boost a bit. 
But at the same time I won't even begin the process until I can put together the full set piece by piece in my garage or I get a parts car.
A parts car is most reasonable because I need a 5 spd also. So basically I know it'll be awhile before I can start so I'm continuing to pursue my 8v setup.


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

Elrey. How would one take advantage of increased flow from the 20v head on an NA car? I know that Nate's record-breaking NA 2020 dub obviously uses the 20v head, but what engine mods take advantage of the lower CR?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Kougaiji)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kougaiji* »_Elrey. How would one take advantage of increased flow from the 20v head on an NA car? I know that Nate's record-breaking NA 2020 dub obviously uses the 20v head, but what engine mods take advantage of the lower CR?

With everything else that's involved with flow:
intake
headers
exhaust
cams
and then software
don't hold me to it, but I think I read that the 20v head flow ~20% more that 8v head on a flow bench. 
20v intake and TB shouldn't do anything to lower that increase.
However, using the stock 20v exhaust mani coupled to 8v downpipe
might lower that ~20% flow increase on the bench. 
Hypothetical, let's say your gain ~12% increase flow with all stock 20v stuff. You've lowered you CR to ~8.4:1.
The loss in CR will over shadow your gain in flow.
20v NA application wouldn't be worth it without custom pistons.
VW did make a 20v 2.0L NA engine ove the pond, but those pistons
are hard to get a hold of. A set was for sell on here a while ago.
edit: found them: NA 20v pistons
FS: 2.0 20V N/A engine kit
Rey


_Modified by elRey at 6:13 PM 7-8-2006_


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

My understanding of compression is limited... But I'll try and follow along.
If using an na setup you have to change the pistons??? Couldn't you just deck the block?


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

Well, I would go ahead and buy regular 20v pistons. I heard somewhere, though, that the problem with them was the ring size or something


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_My understanding of compression is limited... But I'll try and follow along.
If using an na setup you have to change the pistons??? Couldn't you just deck the block?

If you deck the block, you then have remove more crown height off the pistons. It you didn't the pistons would stick up out of the block @ TDC and interfer with head. Not a big deal since you are already modifying pistons anyway. But decking block vs custom pistons?????


_Quote, originally posted by *Kougaiji* »_Well, I would go ahead and buy regular 20v pistons. I heard somewhere, though, that the problem with them was the ring size or something

By regular 20v pistons, to you mean stock 1.8T 20v? You can't use those. They are for a small cylinder bore (81mm) and will not fit in your larger 82.5mm cylinder bore block.
There are rare OEM 20v 2.0L pistons as I linked to, but they are hard to get.



_Modified by elRey at 8:53 PM 7-8-2006_


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## Kougaiji (Apr 8, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
By regular 20v pistons, to you mean stock 1.8T 20v? You can't use those. They are for a small cylinder bore (81mm) and will not fit in your larger 82.5mm cylinder bore block.
There are rare OEM 20v 2.0L pistons as I linked to, but they are hard to get.
_Modified by elRey at 8:53 PM 7-8-2006_

yeah but the two links have two different piston sizes. Also, since this is an AEG and newer thread, are the ABA bore and the AEG bore the same? Just wondering in case you're referring to them as replacements to the ABA pistons.
Ugh.. I wish more people showed interest in this.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Kougaiji)*

Ahhh, your right. The pistons I linked to are 81mm and will not work.
I was wrong, I guess VW did not make a 2.0L 20v NA engine.
For NA application you'll have to get custom pistons made.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

So you're saying:
1-go 20v with modified pistons for turbo
or
2-go 20v with entirely new pistons for NA
I assume this is because if the CR was off (too high? or too low?) then the engine would have almost no ability to create big power. correct?
And assuming you went ahead and put on a turbo application does this change the CR? or is that a mechanical thing?


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## Shibby (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

I have been keeping up with this post for a while now. I am planning on doing this swap very soon. I will be building for FI and want low compression. My question is do I have to use the AEB head to get the 8.5:1 with the AEB gasket or can I use any of the 20v heads and use the AEB gasket? Or will that gasket only fit the AEB?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shibby)*

8.4:1 CR was calculated using stock 2.0L gasket. 
I don't know what using other gaskets will give you.
I believe all 20v have the same combustion volume.
Though AEB heads have larger ports.
Any 20v gasket will fit any 20v head.


_Modified by elRey at 9:56 AM 7-10-2006_


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## Shibby (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_8.4:1 CR was calculated using stock 2.0L gasket. 

So a stock AEG 2.0L head gasket will work on a 20v head?


_Modified by Shibby at 9:06 AM 7-10-2006_


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (Shibby)*

2.0L + 20v head requires drilling out 3 holes in the gasket for oil return/pressure ventilation. They don't have to be percise.
20v gasket + 2.0L block requires the gasket's cylinder bore to be enlarged from ~81mm to ~82.5mm. This does need to be some what percise.
You choose.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (elRey)*

good to know. I'm gonnago with drilling the oil passages.


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## VW Tech 4 Life (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

what tensioner is being used for the 1.8t belt? i would like to stay away fro the gel filled 1.8t tensioner.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

in the G60 forum they are using an OEM tensioner for the 20v swap. But I have no clue for us...


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Ahhh, your right. The pistons I linked to are 81mm and will not work.
I was wrong, I guess VW did not make a 2.0L 20v NA engine.
For NA application you'll have to get custom pistons made.

or use mine, which are oem.







http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2463563
it will work in an AEG also (even better than an ABA). I just put ABA in the title since that is what I was using.


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

So are you parting out those pistons?


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## VW Tech 4 Life (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

so, last night i did a little calculating of the compression ratios. i did this for my setup, azg 2.0 and 1.8t head. i will post all of the specs later but i came up with two ratios with two formulas. one was 8.8:1
the other was 9.0:1. can anyone try to firgure out the compression ratio for a newer 2.0 with 20v head. i read in a post somewhere that the compression ratio would be like low 8 or even 7 something. and yes i even calculated the volume of the stock dish and added it into the formula.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (VW Tech 4 Life)*

on paper all you have to do is compare the difference in volume for the azg 8v HEAD and 20v HEAD. Since everythign else will stay the same.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_on paper all you have to do is compare the difference in volume for the azg 8v HEAD and 20v HEAD. Since everythign else will stay the same.

exactly, 41cc vs. 30cc so add 11cc to calc.
edit: I calculate 8.5:1 advertised which will cc about 8.1:1


_Modified by vwpat at 5:38 PM 7-12-2006_


----------



## mystery chip 1.8t (May 7, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*

so lets just say,,, u got the head on, u got the whole stock 1.8t turbo set up on with the manifold and intercooler.. to the point it basicallt looks like a 1.8t under the hood. there is no MAP sensor... or vvt.. if u have stock 1.8t injecors in. would it be possible to use an Apexi SAFC to control the fuel? i know that ppl dont uuse them on the 1.8t due to conflicting signals fron the ecu and the safc but on the 2.0 harness IMO there would be no conflict. so basically.. dont run an n75, run the bov/DV fdirectly off the manifold, have a manual boost controler. and let the safc contol the fuel.. what about the fuel pump? is the 1.8t one diff? maybe put in a walbaro 190lph in it? or an inline FP. all this said and done.. do you think you could do this and avoid the software problem?


----------



## danzig20v (Feb 9, 2006)

i have a 1.8T right now, rather then building the motor at 1.8l id rather have 2.0l, with good rods
i really wanna take an AEG bottem end and use that
but who would make good rods and pistons to handle over 350whp


----------



## Dafljigga (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (danzig20v)*

Ditto I mean i am confused.. There are a few questions that i would like to get answers to. Like if i am doing this swap into a donor shell. My best bet would be to use a 1.8t engine harness and ecu as far as managemet ?? Also my next question is what are the piston options that i have ?? If i had to get custom pistons what specs would i need on them ?? What about pistons in a N/A buildup ?? Alright thanks


----------



## silvervdubs99 (Oct 7, 2000)

*Re: (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_exactly, 41cc vs. 30cc so add 11cc to calc.
edit: I calculate 8.5:1 advertised which will cc about 8.1:1

_Modified by vwpat at 5:38 PM 7-12-2006_
<<<<<<<<wow, i haven't seen you on these boards in years...we used to shoot the **** years ago on here, good to see some old peeps still lurking! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Shibby (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: (silvervdubs99)*

Alright guys yesterday I ordered my 034 Motorsports 1c kit with high output coil, 550cc Genesis injectors, and billet rods. JE Pistons will be ordered soon. I already have a T3/Super 60, AWW head, AEG block, EIP Stage 2 street clutch, and Bosch fuel pump. We will be building a longitudinal exhaust manifold and USRT style intake manifold. Anything I am missing?


----------



## Shibby (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

Will the 1.8t intercooler piping work? I already have intercooler from EIP.


----------



## randallhb (Sep 17, 2002)

*Re: (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Ahhh, your right. The pistons I linked to are 81mm and will not work.
I was wrong, I guess VW did not make a 2.0L 20v NA engine.
For NA application you'll have to get custom pistons made.

You guess wrong Rey, there is a 2.0L 20v NA engine in Mexico and Europe, its called ALT and you can see more info I posted here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2822366


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

So if there is already this motor out there... then the need to modify the pistons isn't necessary and you could, in reality... either buy this short block OR just the pistons.
What about the internals on the ALT? Are they forged? 
I sure hope so because that would be lame as hell if they made a 20v 2.0 with cast parts!


----------



## MYWIFESJETTA (Jul 31, 2006)

Bump


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Must not be enough 20v AEG interest... I'm going 2.0T w/ an 8v at this point and I'll swap a 20v down the road I guess...
Going turbo is just starting to sound easier and cheaper than swapping heads right now... haha


----------



## Shibby (Dec 10, 2004)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Well I just got my standalone, high output coil, Raceware head studs, and injectors in the other day. Rods are on the way. I just need to order pistons and I will be all set. The only thing I do not know how to do. I am waiting on someone to get the dimensions for the pistons. If anyone can tell me how to calculate this I would appreciate it.


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Shibby)*

Some other options to consider for AEG 20V's:
-oil jets ought to be tapped, especially for boost...right?
-all audi 5-valve V6 engines (2.8, 3.0) used 82.5mm bore notched pistons, and they are domed. 
from page 18 of big 20v swap thread:
I pulled a piston from my 2.8 V6 30V today and took some measurements with pics:








pisons are 82.455mm, notched on both sides, universal for right and left banks. they are slightly domed, although they appear flat next to stock 1.8t's.








wristpins came in @ 21mm, same as ABA; rod journals are an astounding 54mm; rod length measured 154 mm.








Head chambers are different; thus, volumes are too.
left: 30V head chamber. right: 1.8t head chamber
enlargeable pics are available here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=18



_Modified by satchimo at 6:40 PM 10-4-2006_


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

So you're saying that you can pull the pistons from a Audi 5000 and they will work for the 20v conversion?


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_So you're saying that you can pull the pistons from a Audi 5000 and they will work for the 20v conversion?

not even maybe...
audi V6 *5 valve*, or dual overhead cam pistons. Even then it's a maybe. I haven't had them measured by a professional or test fitted them in a block yet, but they are 5 valve pistons. they may be somewhat scarce but I know of 2 core blocks (accident write-offs) full of them as well as my own, so maybe they are becoming more common.
If I find the time this week I may just try those pistons in my AEG. I will likely need to rebush those rods for 21mm wrist pins, but I may try it just to see.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

I am confused my your choice of English... "Not even maybe" Are you saying it's impossible? 
I suppose I wish an impossibility was qualified with a reason. 
So is there a reason why these pistons won't work?


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

for the lack of clarity...
audi 5000 pistons (I'm assuming you mean the forged ones from MC turbo motors etc.) are dished to produce 7.8:1 compression in those motors and when using VW 8valve heads. I don't know the cc's off hand, but it's less than the ~43 cc's in a 1.8t/5 valve head.
Using those pistons with a 20-valve head (or 16v for that matter) will likely drop the compression to 5:1 or 6:1, which is probably too low for combustion to take place.
sorry for the confusion.


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

It's all good but wouldn't that be ok if you're throwing a turbo on with high boost?


----------



## Dafljigga (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Wait im confused, I want to know if those pistons fit in the block ? If those pistons were to be used and the AEB rods were to be used it should raise the C/R and create a plauseable application. How does that sound instead of having custom pistons made. Please let me know because this is interesting


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

That's exactly what I've been trying to find out... If there are pistons already that can be swapped in I'd rather do it than chopping up some.








Because then it doesn't seem so hard either


----------



## mag_wagon (Jul 1, 2005)

*Re: swap nuts*

I have spent the good part of the hour reading all these posts and threads and it all just sounds soooo complicated. To me, why not just get a whole damn 1.8T engine and ecu and sell the 2.0 litre for cheap or keep it as a project motor. I am certainly not an expert on swapping, however, I believe a full long block 1.8T setup dropped in an MK4 2.0 car would only present minor mod problems such as the cooling system. The mount points should be pretty much the same considering the platforms and chassis are identical and they receive three different motors. I am fairly certain the transmissions are the same. I know for a fact the gearing is the same, unless the flywheel and bell housing are different. I do not know, I am just throwing crap out there. I would like to know more, because I know my 115 horse 2.slow is weak sometimes, and there are no good mods to do for this car that are inexpensive and practical. I have done some custom mods on older VW mods, but doing a complete turbo setup on the stock 2.0 8V motor would involve forged pistons, a rebuilt top end, all the turbo components, plumbing for air, oil, and water, and a serious up on the fuel system and electronics. Utter nightmare and ten grand that could be used as a downpayment on a GTI or Jetta that already has a 1.8T and can be easily modded and upgraded for big power gains for less than a grand! At this point, I have accepted the fact that the 2.0 8V aeg/azg is pretty much unmoddable without serious funding, time, and mechanical knowledge. I admire you guys for trying out this stuff and researching and solving the dilemmas, I just do not have the patience for such an immense project. If I get desperate I will add one of those electric superchargers that operate like a garbage disposal in your intake tube!







the silly stuff they make these days!


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: swap nuts (mag_wagon)*

I have a n/a 2.0 20V engine kit for sale.


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: swap nuts (vwpat)*

Does this thread include the BGD? ...im in the beginning research stages of a 2.0 20v, i have a BGD shortblock with 40k, is this good for the 20v head? it has oil squirters and a huge oil pump... compared to the AEG which i didnt see any oil squirters and it had a tiny stock looking oil pump. 
Also are the stock pistons ok to use if i notch them, or are they junk? thanks in advance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by 2deepn2dubs at 12:47 PM 4-22-2008_


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: swap nuts (2deepn2dubs)*

well heres the BGD i have... whats up with this huge oil pump??


























_Modified by 2deepn2dubs at 7:39 AM 4-24-2008_


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: swap nuts (2deepn2dubs)*

ok so has anyone had any problems running notched/clearanced pistons? is it better to notch 9a pistons rather than the stock 2.0l pistons? do we know if the 30v audi pistons will work without modification? ...if so whats the c/r of that setup?


----------



## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: swap nuts (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_well heres the BGD i have... whats up with this huge oil pump??

It's a housing that contains twin balancer shafts aswell as the oil pump. It can be ditched and replaced with a transverse 1.8t oil pump. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: swap nuts (polov8)*

what do the balancer shafts do, better to have? will an aeg oil pump work?


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: swap nuts (2deepn2dubs)*

heres some pics i took of the AEG block...
























notice no oil squirters...


----------



## JustTheTip (Jan 22, 2008)

What exactly are you trying to do w/this build...


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (ScmK4VduBB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ScmK4VduBB* »_What exactly are you trying to do w/this build...

2.0 20vT


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: (2deepn2dubs)*

soooo, whats everyone doing for eng mangmnt?


----------



## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

Ros and piston would cost about $1k. Is it really worth trying to notch stock pistons?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_soooo, whats everyone doing for eng mangmnt?

You are in Fresno
Why not go to 034 Motorsport?


----------



## don1588 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

as for the piston problem that has been mentioned in this thread, wouldnt it just be easier to get a set of overbore 1.8t pistons?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (don1588)*


_Quote, originally posted by *don1588* »_as for the piston problem that has been mentioned in this thread, wouldnt it just be easier to get a set of overbore 1.8t pistons?

1.8T pistons have an incorrect compression height (wrist pin location). If you threw 82.5mm 1.8T pistons in the pistons would hit the head @ TDC.


----------



## don1588 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: (elRey)*

unless perhaps you get some custom rods or custom crank, maybe both just for giggles


----------



## PantyBeef (Aug 14, 2008)

*Re: (don1588)*

what if you used a head spacer? if you were going turbo.


----------



## don1588 (Mar 23, 2008)

*Re: (PantyBeef)*

a head spacer in combonation with oversized 1.8t pistons would be a good idea, If you could keep your compression ratio high enough for the motor to run properly.
It basicaly works like this, if it takes a .0625 headspacer to clear oversized 1.8t pistons in a 2.0 block, and said headspacer drops compression 1-2 hole points, then you would need piston custom machined to be 1-2 points higher in compression than stock 1.8t pistons.(if you wanted to run the factory 1.8t turbo pressure). 
I could be wrong tho, it might actualy work just fine with just a properly sized head spacer and oversized 1.8t pistons, because essentialy I guess there would be the exact same compression distance between the head and the piston as whats in the 1.8t.
If someone could identify which one of my ideas are correct, then we might have this problem solved.


_Modified by don1588 at 12:46 AM 10-11-2008_


----------



## Fenn (Jul 19, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

does anyone know what cambelt, tensioner and cam pulley to use on a AEB head on an AQY (mk4 2.0l 8v crossflow) bottom end?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (Fenn)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fenn* »_does anyone know what cambelt, tensioner and cam pulley to use on a AEB head on an AQY (mk4 2.0l 8v crossflow) bottom end?

internal waterpump 1.8T cam gear, t-belt, and tensioner


----------



## Fenn (Jul 19, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

THANKS


----------



## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (Fenn)*

ok so i started hearing about the 30v v6 pistons do they freaking work or not?







i'm building one and everyone seems to still be arguing about it one year later. i know JE makes pistons for this application. jrc has a lot of info, but if i can get a sset of the 30v pistons for half the price that would be even better


----------



## rx2tones (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (lilgreydentwagen)*

ok so i started hearing about the 30v v6 pistons do they freaking work or not? i'm building one and everyone seems to still be arguing about it one year later. i know JE makes pistons for this application. jrc has a lot of info, but if i can get a sset of the 30v pistons for half the price that would be even better

the 30v piston may work but you wont be able to run a big cam or alot of boost 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
my $hit.......
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4262428


----------



## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (rx2tones)*

aggh screw it i'll just cough up the 800 bucks for a set of je pistons. as for engine management i'm just goin with megasquirt, or just piggyback the digifant I for extra fuel + waste spark


----------



## AutoCrosser11 (Jun 23, 2004)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (lilgreydentwagen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lilgreydentwagen* »_aggh screw it i'll just cough up the 800 bucks for a set of je pistons. as for engine management i'm just goin with megasquirt, or just piggyback the digifant I for extra fuel + waste spark









I got a SMT-6 smart tuner if your interested. but really I would run megasquit


----------



## vw collector (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (AutoCrosser11)*

Any solid answers on the use of the 30v pistons on the AEG 20/20T?


----------



## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (Kougaiji)*

Just to throw this out there, isn't it just a lot easier to just build a 2.slow out of a 1.8T?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (vw collector)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw collector* »_Any solid answers on the use of the 30v pistons on the AEG 20/20T?









ask vwpat directly. I believe he may have some insight into this.


----------



## vw collector (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
ask vwpat directly. I believe he may have some insight into this.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## lil_medic_vdub (Jul 30, 2009)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (vw collector)*

Will the 20V head from a vw beetle 1.8t fit a mk4 golf 2.0??? dont bit me if i said sumthin silly!
Thanks


----------



## mk4_2.ho (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (lil_medic_vdub)*

subscribed...going 20v NA in the daily beater, so this is getting me started on the right foot...now to chase software.


----------



## mk4_2.ho (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

want some more info? i got it!
i've been attacking this build for 3 reasons:
1: i have a BRAND NEW aeb head in plastic in my shed.
2: i have an avh code 2.0 block that needs rings (previous owner dumped the full quart of marvel into a near-empty crankcase, washed the rings out)
3: my 2.0 jetta needs more power and a 16v swap, while cheaper, could end up being MORE work.
here's what i've found:
--eurospec 83mm 5v pistons with 1.8t rods WILL clear the 5th valve with a 2.0 crank.
--your stock 2.0 crank is fine, though 03-up guys may want to ditch the balancer and ginormous oil pump and replace with an earlier design.
--if you use the european head gasket, your compression will stay at whatever your piston is rated for (or so i hear, i have yet to bolt the head on and get hard numbers).
--YOU DO NOT NEED TO ORDER CUSTOM PISTONS (other than bore size)! i am using pistons designed for a 1.8t and they clear just fine with the appropriate matched rods (which is factory for now, new scat rods will go in next week, then the final build takes place). of course, this is turning by hand, but i do not see the pistons going anywhere near over the top of the piston wall. and yes, they are coated with LOTS of assembly lube.
this all being said, i hope it inspires more to take the plunge. it is NOT a cheap proposition (i have $1300 into it so far without rods), BUT it promises more power, a stronger bottom end, and better breathing up top.

oh yeah, there was a factory 2.0 20v, it used 82.5mm bore pistons with a 92.8mm stroke, i am researching it, it is engine code alt. researching this motor will give us all more insight into the swap itself (namely rods).


_Modified by mk4_2.ho at 10:08 PM 10-18-2009_


----------



## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (AutoCrosser11)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AutoCrosser11* »_
I got a SMT-6 smart tuner if your interested. but really I would run megasquit

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (mk4_2.ho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk4_2.ho* »_2: i have an avh code 2.0 block that needs rings (previous owner dumped the full quart of marvel into a near-empty crankcase, washed the rings out)

??? curious what this means so I don't do it.


_Quote, originally posted by *mk4_2.ho* »_--YOU DO NOT NEED TO ORDER CUSTOM PISTONS (other than bore size)! i am using pistons designed for a 1.8t and they clear just fine with the appropriate matched rods (which is factory for now, new scat rods will go in next week, then the final build takes place). of course, this is turning by hand, but i do not see the pistons going anywhere near over the top of the piston wall.


So, you're saying that a 3.2mm difference in deck height doesn't put the pistons above the deck into the head? Are you sure you have 86.4mm stroke pistons and not 92.8mm stroke pistons?


----------



## mk4_2.ho (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

rey, the previous owner of the block was a teenage girl, she told her dad the car was losing oil, before checking it out, he dumped a whole quart of marvel mystery oil into it. it had MAYBE a half-quart of the real stuff. when i got the car to fix, the rings were washed to hell, car wouldn't even start, and when it did, a different cylinder would misfire every single time.
i'm also guessing that maybe he threw in some motor flush too sometime beforehand and had his daughter drive it around.
in any case, i put a motor in with 11,000 miles, car runs fine, i kept the old block.
block was bored to 83mm so as to accept larger, new pistons. the pistons are eurospec 5v pistons, 83mm bore, 92.8mm stroke. i spoke with [email protected], this is what he recommended for the project. compression ratio is 9.0:1. i was mistaken earlier if i mentioned 86.4mm. it was late, i had been up huffing fumes from various cleaners and chemicals putting the head together. they are, in fact, designed for a 1.8t, just a bored and stroked variation.








connecting rods are standard issue mk4 144mm rods. i went with scat, you could go with anyone you'd feel comfortable with.
i'm hoping with a good tune on the gt30, i should be deep into the 3s.


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (mk4_2.ho)*

hmm, I have a full AVH long block that I just picked up to build. After reading all of this it makes me seriously consider taking the 20/20 approach.


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (J.Owen)*

I have a 20/20 engine w/ C2 software but it wont start...can the 20v cam position sensor trigger the aeg coil pack, if so witch cam rotor to use (1 window aeb or the 4 window awp)?
i keep geting a 17465 code - camshaft adjustment 
any body have any ideas. and would this code cause no spark?











_Modified by bwidow at 2:51 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

what management? (base ecu... AEG ecu?)
4-window
only time 1-window is used is for AEB and even AEB can use 4-window without problems.


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

99 aeg i think its motronic 5.2? thats been reflash w/ C2 software for a 2.0l w/20v head, t3 turbo..


_Modified by bwidow at 2:58 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

Yes, 4-window 1.8T CPS wheel will work with AEG ECU (chipped or not).
And the ECU fires the coil pack. You threw me off when you post a cam adjustment DTC.... that's usually for 1.8Ts that have VVT.
What did you for wiring harness? swap a complete 1.8T harness or cut and splice?


_Modified by elRey at 5:59 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

so what would cause the no spark condition? I just went out to the garage and tried cranking it again with the scanner plugged in and dtc code 17465 came up again?


_Modified by bwidow at 3:20 PM 10-22-2009_


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

Do you think they would have flashed my ecu with a 1.8t w/ vvt file?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

What did you for wiring harness? swap a complete 1.8T harness or cut and splice?


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

the stock 2L aeg harness with the plug for the cam sensor spliced in..


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

plug wires? TB wires extended?
Is the CPS connector spliced correctly... or are your wires crossed?










_Modified by elRey at 5:08 PM 10-23-2009_


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

im using 16v wires, tb wires wernt cut just rerouted to tb.
i used to numbers on the conectors to match up wires.
the aeb conector has a white/black going to aeg plug wire#1
grey/green going to " " " #2
black going to " " " #3 
hey ELREY thank you for taking time to help me out I really appreciate it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by bwidow at 2:45 PM 10-23-2009_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

My *AEB* diagrams show:
green/purple= pin #1
green/grey = pin #2
grey/white = pin #3
*AEG*:
purple/red = pin #1
purple/yellow = pin #2
brown/black = pin #3
And AEG pin#s should = AEB pin#s


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

thats the way i have them 1 to 1, 2 to 2, etc. I even tried 1 to 3, 3 to1
the middle wire is usually the signal one right.


----------



## mk4_2.ho (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

ok, so 4window and 16v wires are a must...sweet, and good to know.








i got the motor together, turning by hand, nothing is hitting, no funky noises, we should be good to go.








i'll be doing the c2 file as well, so long as they can delete sai out of it.
i extended my harness as well, no use in using the 1.8t harness when c2 writes a program for the 2.0 20vt.
side note guys, the 16v manifold (mk2/b3/sII) will also bolt up to the 20v head.







should make na conversions MUCH easier...but who wants a 20v without a snail?  i say this because my turbo manifold was from my old 16v jetta, wanted to see if it could fit on a whim, and it did.


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (mk4_2.ho)*

C2 will take out the SAI but you have to tell them too...
i think ive tried evrything in the book to get this thing started, im still not getting any spark...










_Modified by bwidow at 7:13 AM 10-25-2009_


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (mk4_2.ho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk4_2.ho* »_YOU DO NOT NEED TO ORDER CUSTOM PISTONS ... pistons designed for a 1.8t and they clear just fine with the appropriate matched rods

With that being said, it would seem its possible to just order something like the IE piston/rod combo linked below?
http://www.intengineering.com/....html


_Modified by J.Owen at 8:16 PM 10-27-2009_


----------



## mk4_2.ho (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (J.Owen)*

if the pistons will support the 92.8mm stroke of the 2.0, then yes, that would be a good setup (and inexpensive too!)
rods are rods in the mk4, just get the right diameter wrist pin size.
the pistons are the unicorn so to speak. i ordered mine from eurospec, it's an off-the-shelf piston so to speak for them. they were also $100 cheaper than je or wiseco as well (or so i thought).
with more and more builders using the fsi crank (only difference is the forged-ness), more 2008cc cars will be on the road, pistons should be more readily available as the days go by.
here's the pistons that wiseco offers, josh, you coulda saved me $250 by linking that site about two weeks ago:
http://www.intengineering.com/....html
_Modified by mk4_2.ho at 9:17 PM 10-26-2009_


_Modified by mk4_2.ho at 9:29 PM 10-26-2009_


----------



## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (mk4_2.ho)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk4_2.ho* »_josh, you coulda saved me $250 by linking that site about two weeks ago:

Sorry man, I didn't even realize it existed until I started researching this project.
They also sell this, but im unsure of how this would affect the end compression ratio. I would assume it would function that same as the standard US spec 1.8T gasket.
83mm overbore gasket...








http://www.intengineering.com/....html


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (J.Owen)*

Ok so i my wife emailed C2 today and they told her that the awp hall sensor wheel (cam wheel) will not work on the M5.92 ecu cars. The newer cars with ME 7 or drive by wire cars can use that wheel, so now im s.o.l. I need to come up with a way to put the aeg hall wheel on the 20v cam pulley and bolt up aeg cam sensor to the head.....

any body have any ideas on that?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

AEG (mk4 2.0L 8v) hall sensor trigger wheel configuration = newer 2.0l and 1.8T wheels. The only wheel that has a different window configuration is the early AEB 1.8Ts. And you can use the later wheel on an AEB with any problems. But you cannot use the early AEB wheel on newer cars.


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

hey ELREY,
are you saying that there are two different aeb wheels? If so will the later wheel (aeb) work with the aeg M 5.92 management?
I have a 99 audi big port head that came with the one window wheel that didnt work either... and is the window pattern of the newer wheel different than the awp wheel?
sorry for bombarding you with all these questions, im just trying to get this damb car running before winter really sets in.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

AEG (mk4 2.0L) = 4 window (newer) 1.8T trigger wheel (NOT AEB)
AEB only has 1 wheel and that's a 1 window trigger wheel. 
BUT, what I am saying is that the AEB will can run the 4-window, later wheel.
In short, get the later 4-window wheel and it will work with everything (mentioned in this conversation).


_Modified by elRey at 8:26 PM 11-6-2009_


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

I have the AWP 4 window wheel and it does not work. The newer wheel only works on newer cars with drive by wire running ME7 ecu's 99' AEG cars running M5.92 ecu's cannot or at least mine is not sending a signal to the ecu to trigger the coil pack....ive checked the coil, ecu, cam senor what else is there, what am i missing?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*

I'll say it again. The stock trigger wheel on an AEG IS a 4-window wheel with the SAME window configuration as the newer 1.8Ts AND newer 2.0Ls.
Prove me wrong. Where is you old cam gear from your 2.0L head?

What I'm implying is that the trigger wheel is not your problem.


_Modified by elRey at 3:57 PM 11-8-2009_


----------



## suzuki200k (Sep 22, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

My AEG is drive by cable. will this hurt me severely in the swap?


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (suzuki200k)*

No, you should be fine as long as you use all your original sensors


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Any update with this conversion?


_Modified by sauron18 at 1:05 PM 12-6-2009_


----------



## khemiicalz (Mar 25, 2009)

*Re: (sauron18)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sauron18* »_Any update with this conversion?

_Modified by sauron18 at 1:05 PM 12-6-2009_

i have a simple question for everyone,
what the advantage of using a aeg over a aba block?
and (if they were made), would a alumminim block with stand more than 300+hp?


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (khemiicalz)*

AEG blocks are used in the MK4 chasis, ABA blocks are used in MK1,MK2,MK3 chasis, As far as the swap goes i cant figure it out...Still cant get it to start.
As far as an aluminum block, I dont even think VW makes one....


----------



## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

*Re: (bwidow)*

never made a aluminum block. they are all cast iron and mk3 aba will not bolt right into a mk4 or newer car as the bolting holes are differnt.
i agree. i don't think the trigger wheel is your issue. UNLESS it was install incorrectly, damaged or in the wrong postion
i have been looking around for info on this and i can't seem to find anything of any help(hence why i haven't called back yet)
i hate to say it but we may have to look at the car in person some how to figure this out if your totally stuck.
we will have to look into the ecu, cam sensor setup and other out puts to see if they are good and the synce together.
--Josh


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (bwidow)*

*bwidow*, do you have access to another AEG ECU (stock)?
Can you take pictures and email them to me of:
-CAM position sensor this the sensor on and with it off (show the wheel).
-clear view of your plug wires to show which coil fire which cylinder.

Do you have access to a multi-meter. if so, check continuity on the CAM position sensor connector to the ECU connector:
CPS -> ECU
1 -> 62
2 -> 76
3 -> 67


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (elRey)*

Thanks Josh & Elrey for your time and help with this nightmare of mine. 
I will take pics of sensors and wires in the mean time ill check for continuty on those wires, The rotor pn# 06B-905-234-A (4 window awp 03') cam sensor pn# 058-905-161B 
Ill try to have my wife to help with posting pic, When I last compared the AEG cam pulley with the awp rotor they appear to be the same configuration just smaller in diameter, The cam sensor for the AEG is mounted to the bottom of the wheel, while the 20v picks up it at the top. Ive tried mounting the rotor 180 to no avail and ruining the rotor, but i picked up another
thanks again guys.


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (bwidow)*

so i just went out and checked for continuity on the cam sensor wires back to ecu plug and they checked out ok. Spark plug wires are in their right place

1-2-3-4 spark plugs
3 1 
2 4 coil
cam sensor pn#232-101-024


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (bwidow)*

Any 1.8t 20v sensor (hall sensor) will work. 
Next steps I would do is
- try a know good hall sensor
- try a stock AEG ecu


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (elRey)*

I'll try a brand new cam sensor, ive tried 2 different ones already, and i have a $500 c2 chipped ecu as far as trying another ecu, does any body have an 06A-906-018 CR ecu around that can come and try it. ill pay foy your time...


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (bwidow)*

Find a friend with a 1.8t and try their hall sensor. 
And any AEG will do for a test.


----------



## SRBIJA (Jan 10, 2005)

*Re: (elRey)*

Very intresting topic, I have a 20v head AWD sitting around..... It came off of the 00 1.8T (it has 5 or 6 valves bent)... I might go for it....


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

bump


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

hey guys so I go to the bone yard today for ****s an giggles and they had a jetta with a ecu in it still, got it for $10. put it in the beetle, and what do you know it started right up. C2 needs to tell me something!!!!. ELREY I said it before and Ill say it again thank you....


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwidow* »_they had a jetta with a ecu in it still, got it for $10. put it in the beetle, and what do you know it started right up.

hell of a find!


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (elRey)*

The c2 chipped one is going in the mail tommorow morning, Ive been bumming rides to work for over threee months, theyve been telling me its something to do w/ the cam sensor not being the the original one that came with the car.....


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Nice! I´m glad for you...


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Guys have u seen this?
Look at the CR...12.3:1 Nice! and 82.75mm or 82.5mm, i will order this pistons one i start my conversion, i will go n/a for some time.

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...av=62


_Modified by sauron18 at 12:49 PM 2-14-2010_


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (sauron18)*

You better not use use that plomo **** gas over there. high compression requires high octane gas or its gonna knock like a bastard.. just my 2cents. my dad is from D.R.


_Modified by bwidow at 1:53 PM 2-18-2010_


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have ask around and the regular(plomo) is 89 and the premium only 91...so i think here the highest cr would be 11 or less. So no good here for that type of pistons.


----------



## raymondlee (Jun 8, 2008)

*Re: (sauron18)*

how would one tel lthe machine shop what to remove from the stock 2l piston? would they know if i took the head up there or is it some secret formula.


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

What would be the cr with 3.0 v6 30v pistons?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20v head + MK4 2.0L AEG, AZG, and newer (bwidow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwidow* »_The c2 chipped one is going in the mail tommorow morning, .....

Any update?
Also, I'd like to start a list of ppl who have actually completed this swap. I'll keep the list updated in the first post.


_Modified by elRey at 3:02 PM 2-25-2010_


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## OverCaffeinated (Mar 9, 2009)

Does this thread and info also apply to a BEV engine too? 
I hope it does!!!


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## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (OverCaffeinated)*

I mailed the ecu back to c2, two weeks ago. my wife spoke w/chris yesterday. i should know something tommorow. hopefully on my knees praying every thing turns out ok, if not every thing will be up for sale?


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## vw collector (Jul 6, 2002)

*Re: (bwidow)*

Has anyone successfully completed this yet?


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Bump...


_Modified by sauron18 at 6:52 PM 3-25-2010_


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## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (sauron18)*

Ok I got my ecu back on monday. I put it in and fired right up, so im up and running. Now I need to put the manual boost controller in and weld in the bov. One of my friends gave a cheapo mbc that I'll be using till the bugs get worked out.


----------



## sgolf2000 (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (bwidow)*

i aplogize for not reading through to find this answer. what are the last 2 letters on your ecu? does the c2 flash for this use the same 42# injectors and 3in maf housing as the 8v file? if not what are you using? thanks


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: (sgolf2000)*

sgolf, the last 2 letters on my ecu are CR. as for the injectors they are the same bosch green tops and im running 3" inlet. the file that C2 used was a bit custom to allow for extra flow of the head.


----------



## sgolf2000 (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (bwidow)*

thanks for the info. was the price of the flash also "custom" or was it the same 350 as for their generic flashes?


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

I like this pistons...better if it was 10 but they are not custom.
JE 83MM Bore 92.8MM Stroke 9.5:1 CR
http://www.intengineering.com/....html


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

If someone use those pistons 9.5:1 and the AEB headgasket will the CR end up higher?


_Modified by sauron18 at 7:25 PM 4-12-2010_


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## bikerkid9069 (Oct 12, 2009)

okay so does anyone have a list of parts needed for this? obviously 
20V head
2.0L bottom end. 
new pistons.
1.8 timing belt and tensioner
1.8 head gasket
1.8 fuel rail/injectors
and chip tuning? that all sound about right or is there more


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## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

16v tensioner, and the top o rings from your old injectors 0n the 42#'s if your go FI. Oh before i forget youll need to make a plug from your cam pos. sensor to the 1.8t cps, and use the aww trigger wheel. the aeb is a one window wheel.


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## black9label13 (Sep 18, 2009)

post for subscription, lookin to do this within the next year, hopefully by then most bugs will be worked out. great thread


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

elRey said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *bwidow* »_The c2 chipped one is going in the mail tommorow morning, .....
> 
> Any update?
> Also, I'd like to start a list of ppl who have actually completed this swap. I'll keep the list updated in the first post.
> ...


i have.... AEB head, AZG block. but we did a little different for internals.

150mm rods, 21mm pins, all custom rods and pistons. 86.4mm forged crank. billet mains. girdle. solid lifter head setup. 1893cc....

i have one thing to add, because i didnt waste the time to read the whole entire thread.

the locator dowel pins for the AEB head and the 06A 2.0L block do not line up. what is YOUR fix? delete them?

we drilled the block to line up with the head, so the dowels can still locate the head gasket.

just my $0.02.... oh yes, and mine on low boost made 615 AWHP last night on the dyno..... :beer:


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## Richard_Cranium (Mar 28, 2010)

and one other addition. an AEG block would be a poor choice for this as it has no oils squirters. the AZG would be a better go at it. then again, the AEG would not need piston skirt notching to clear the squirters becasue they are not there.... 


$0.02


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Bump


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## JNads18 (Jan 9, 2007)

:thumbup:


----------



## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

So im starting from scratch with just an AEB 20v head, wiring harness, ecu, and tb. I can use any block and have time on my side to finish this. SO I want to go with the simplest combo. 

What would be my most cost effective way about building a 20/20? 

from what I've read its to get one of these mk4 2L blocks.

I was originally going to start with an aba block but after reading and understanding the work that would be involved in the head to make it match up would add cost. 

Then I was going to do aeg, but then it seems that all i need is the block, ill need a 2.0t crank, rods, and custom pistons to beef everything up. Then I just read it does not have oil squirters. 

Now I'm wondering what it would cost if I just did a stroker kit for a 1.8t block?
Seems like it would require the same parts as the aeg. This would not require any modifications to the head gasket. 

Quick look at IE website and it seems that the cost is not too far apart for parts. 

Am I missing something? Kinda seems like the 1.8t stroker block would be the cheapest easiest.


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## LO-vw (Sep 24, 2001)

to add to all of that what about the mk5 2.0t block?
Is that an 06a block? 
Cant find ANY info on that thing.


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## MonkeyBusiness (Jun 11, 2009)

would the 12.3:1 compression ratio pistons run ok with 93 octane?


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Richard_Cranium said:


> and one other addition. an AEG block would be a poor choice for this as it has no oils squirters. the AZG would be a better go at it. then again, the AEG would not need piston skirt notching to clear the squirters becasue they are not there....
> 
> 
> I was thinking of doing this swap.... i was looking to go N/A for some time. But i got a AEG, so if you say it is a poor choice is no good for me then? Can someone confirm me if the stock ecu will run the 20v head? if i go n/a?
> ...


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## cjon3s (May 4, 2010)

my head hurts... so would these work?

http://www.intengineering.com/Wiseco-825MM-Bore-928MM-p8801829-1-2.html

??

i can find stand alone tuning so thts no issue. jst need pistons. does anyone have this running?


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## MonkeyBusiness (Jun 11, 2009)

those pistons will not work. If you want 9:1 compression and are using a 2L crank (92.8mm stroke) use these http://www.intengineering.com/Mahle-PowerPack-83MM-p9457146-1-2.html or these http://www.intengineering.com/Wiseco-83MM-Bore-928MM-p8801832-1-2.html

but you'll have to get your cylinders bored out 0.5MM, stock they are 82.5mm. You could also get custom pistons made for a reasonable price so you wouldn't have to get your cylinders bored out. Contact Issam at INA he can get them for you


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

cjon3s said:


> my head hurts... so would these work?
> 
> http://www.intengineering.com/Wiseco-825MM-Bore-928MM-p8801829-1-2.html
> 
> ...


Those are for 16v don't know if they will work...


----------



## cjon3s (May 4, 2010)

bump again.

So, does anyone have this fully up and running, with software and everything figured out? What kind of numbers are being put down? How's it run? etc. eace:


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

What engine management is needed, how much it cost and get it tuned?


----------



## MonkeyBusiness (Jun 11, 2009)

you should able to run it to stock software or with any of the tunes available for the AEG. However getting a custom tune would yield the most power. A custom tune from Jeff (United Motorsport) is somewhere around $700.


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

MonkeyBusiness said:


> you should able to run it to stock software or with any of the tunes available for the AEG. However getting a custom tune would yield the most power. A custom tune from Jeff (United Motorsport) is somewhere around $700.


Ok, well for me it will be going stock or getting a tuned ecu.

What would be the total cost estimated or aprox. To complete this swap n/a? Getting a used head 350-400, custom pistons 600-650, plus all the part needed...?


----------



## 3 bar (Aug 16, 2001)

How bout a AZG block with 9A or 30V pistons and ABA rods? Might be acquiring an 05 gli that bottomed out and seized the bottom end.


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Bump


----------



## MikeyMurray (May 9, 2011)

would pistons that are 82.50mm, 19mm Wrist Pin (06B 198 075 F) from a 1.8t fit with the aeg block in terms of being notched for the 20v head? 

or one of these?? http://eurospecsport.com/products/components/standard-pistons-ETS.html


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

MikeyMurray said:


> would pistons that are 82.50mm, 19mm Wrist Pin (06B 198 075 F) from a 1.8t fit with the aeg block in terms of being notched for the 20v head?
> 
> or one of these?? http://eurospecsport.com/products/components/standard-pistons-ETS.html


Pistons for this swap are those below, keep in mind that the 2.0 pistons are 82.5mm pistons and 92.8mm stroke. Most are for turbo only the first one is for N/A or going custom pistons with a lower CR.

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=9270DA&Nav=6&SubNav=62

http://www.bildon.com/catalog/DetailsList.cfm?ID=9388DA&Nav=6&SubNav=62

http://www.intengineering.com/IE-Spec-JE-Race-18T-83MM-p9546351-1-2.html

http://www.intengineering.com/JE-83MM-Bore-928MM-Stroke-p9457096-1-2.html

http://www.intengineering.com/JE-83MM-Bore-928MM-Stroke-p9457097-1-2.html

http://www.intengineering.com/Mahle-PowerPack-83MM-p9457146-1-2.html

http://www.intengineering.com/Wiseco-83MM-Bore-928MM-p8801832-1-2.html

These pistons below are 95.5mm to use the TDI crank, or 2.1 20v

http://www.intengineering.com/JE-83MM-Bore-955MM-Stroke-p9457098-1-2.html

http://www.intengineering.com/JE-83MM-Bore-955MM-Stroke-p9457099-1-2.html


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## MonkeyBusiness (Jun 11, 2009)

MikeyMurray said:


> would pistons that are 82.50mm, 19mm Wrist Pin (06B 198 075 F) from a 1.8t fit with the aeg block in terms of being notched for the 20v head?
> 
> or one of these?? http://eurospecsport.com/products/components/standard-pistons-ETS.html


Like I told you in the thread you started, get the 12.3:1 pistons or get custom pistons made maybe at 11:1. The pistons from eurospec don't give specs on compression, or stroke which are vital for your build. Also in order for us to help you out we need to know whether you are going to keep it naturally aspirated or if you're going turbo.


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

Anyone doing the swap right now?


----------



## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

This 20/20 looks very interesting, but not as inexpensive as I could have hoped. Has anyone compared (and written down) 16vT vs. 20vT labor (time) and parts (cost) for a MkIV 2.slo conversion? I assume the ultimate potential is about equal, but please correct me if I'm wrong. 

In addition to the MkIV with 2.slo ('01, so I presume AEG), I've got 9A (2L 16V) and AEB (1.8T) parts engines kicking about, as well as an early A4 donor for AEB wiring and ECU. Hmmm, would a complete AEB engine bolt into a Mk4, or are the mounting holes as misplaced as the ABA? I also have Scirocco 16V and Golf 1.8T bare intakes, but no other newer 1.8T stuff. I want to end up with about 300 very streetable whp, although I'd probably settle for slightly less if significantly cheaper.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 2, 2009)

If you want, you can order the custom pistons you need in a snap right here: 

http://www.intengineering.com/JE-Custom-Piston-Set-p9720053.html

Just pick your desired compression ratio, 82.5mm bore (if you don't want to bore it), and 92.8mm stroke. 

I do recommend boring them though which is why we do not offer an 82.5mm piston in our regular inventory. 

Of course, we are always available to help you set them up as well if you need help. 888.60.INTENG

As far as results, just look at any 2L 1.8t- the results will be the same. FWIW, I have made well over 800 crank without oil squirters, but I wouldn't recommend it. It was a "no other choice" scenario. It will work just fine for drag racing though, in fact it helps the oil pump keep up with demand somewhat at higher rpm's (8500+) and large bearing clearances. 

:thumbup:


----------



## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have a AEG, would be safe going to 83.5mm for me? I want a street all motor engine.


----------



## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

Thanks Pete. I've had serious issues with the oil squirters on a street car, and never missed them on low stress race cars. That said, I can definitely see how they'd help with high boost even with a good thermal coating on top. I note that my '01 Wagon seems to have the AZG, which I think probably has squirters. BTW, which gasket gives the rated CRs for those pistons? That is, could I get 7.5:1 just by using the later 1.8t gasket with the 8.0:1 pistons?

EDIT: I don't have AEG or AZG, but AVH (late '01 wagon built 4/01). I didn't realize before as I just got the car, but I think it's actually a drive-by-wire (DBW) throttle. Anyone know what extra complications I might face with this swap?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

o2bad455 said:


> EDIT: I don't have AEG or AZG, but AVH (late '01 wagon built 4/01).


For all intents and purposes AVH = AZG.


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

I'm getting serious about this, and trying to decide weather it would be worth getting a transverse 1.8T parts car. I've already got the '01 Wagon with AVH (06A block), an Audi A4 parts car with AEB (058 block, threw rod but has good large-port head and usable turbo), and a transverse NB intake (same as Golf? this one's bare w/o TB). If I buy rods and custom pistons, what other parts would I need from a transverse 1.8T to get this together cleanly? For example, would I still need a transverse 1.8T (06A/B) DBW TB, coolant fittings, hoses, cam pulley, oil pan, and maybe ECU (so I can have some level of self-tuning and/or chip selection)? I guess another option for the TB and ECU might be converting from DBW to DBC and borrowing as much as possible from the Audi. Thoughts?


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## o2bad455 (Aug 22, 2003)

mk4_2.ho said:


> side note guys, the 16v manifold (mk2/b3/sII) will also bolt up to the 20v head.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Wow, this is great news that I missed the first time. I happen to have a BT on tubular 16V exhaust header that I'd love to use with an AEB 20V head! 



bikerkid9069 said:


> okay so does anyone have a list of parts needed for this? obviously
> 20V head
> 2.0L bottom end.
> new pistons.
> ...





bwidow said:


> 16v tensioner, and the top o rings from your old injectors 0n the 42#'s if your go FI. Oh before i forget youll need to make a plug from your cam pos. sensor to the 1.8t cps, and use the aww trigger wheel. the aeb is a one window wheel.


 So, let me get this straight: We can use the 06A 2L lower pulleys with 16V tensioner and 1.8T timing belt. For the cam pulley, I know the 2L won't fit, so do we need the early (058 1.8T or 16V) or later (06A/B 1.8T)? 

I read that we also need the front 1.8T lower flange to clear intake, and later (4-window) CPS to match the ECU (unless using AEB ECU, but even then the 4-window should work). 

Anything else?


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## MonkeyBusiness (Jun 11, 2009)

you are going to use engine management off the 2.0 and get custom software, or a regular 2.0 turbo file would probably work or get stand alone. You could use the 1.8t ECU, but I dont know anything about that, I think you have to add some sensors. OEM rods are good to ~300hp so unless you plan on making more I wouldnt bother upgrading them. Use the 1.8t tensioner. any 1.8t CPS that is a 4 window will work with the stock 2.0ecu or non aeb ecu


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

o2bad455 said:


> Wow, this is great news that I missed the first time. I happen to have a BT on tubular 16V exhaust header that I'd love to use with an AEB 20V head!
> 
> So we can use the 20v upper manifold and the lower manifold with a 16V exhaust header if for N/A.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

sauron18 said:


> o2bad455 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow, this is great news that I missed the first time. I happen to have a BT on tubular 16V exhaust header that I'd love to use with an AEB 20V head!
> ...


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

So it has to be a custom header then what are the options?


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

sauron18 said:


> So it has to be a custom header then what are the options?


custom header or a 20V flange on a re-positioned 16V header or AGN exhaust manifold with Mk2 or 3 downpipe.


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## Moshua (Jul 20, 2010)

bump

i've got an aeg 2.0 and an awp 1.8t with bent valves in the garage i got for free. Is there anyone here who had done this 20v head swap succesfully, page one has zero people listed as completing the swap. I know a few have done it on aba's and what not. Please let me know. I need specifics and i want to start building soon. I'm getting a another car very soon to drive over the winter


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## RawbiiD (Jul 13, 2011)

*bump*

anybody got it running or working? i just picked up a head and am about to start the lon process with money limiting time.


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## VW MAFIA (Dec 3, 2011)

Nice idea, good luck


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## dorkage (Jul 7, 2009)

So I got a AEB head and a AEG 99.5. Would 9A 16v 2L pistons make this a fairly bolt on affair? What compression ratio would this achieve? 

A lot of the guys with the older style blocks seem to run the 9A pistions with a notch for the 3rd valve with no issues I've heard of yet. I'm planning to run megasquirt on it and am not sure if I will do turbo or NA(depends how cheap I can do this)


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

building a DD and have been planning it for months now, was planning on swapping blocks and upgrading rods and pistons. 

came on here to see if anyone has used a TDI crank in an AEG hoping to see how easy it would be to make a 2.1 or 2.2L. 

then i hear about this oil squirter issue, i thought the AEG had oil squirters. i just read that pete from IE doesnt reccomend the swap because the lack of the squirters. 
what are people doing about this ? anything ? what happens if i use the aeg block with out them. 

GT3076 around 28 PSI. (High RPM - 9.5k)


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

or would i use a AVH, AZG, BGD block, they had oil squirters right ?


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## chasem407 (Feb 19, 2008)

1999.5GTIVR6 said:


> or would i use a AVH, AZG, BGD block, they had oil squirters right ?


 I believe only the AEG blocks didnt have oil squirters... The others do. Also, I think someone mentioned that the stroker motors that IE builds are on AEG blocks, I could be wrong about that one though. 

Anyways, I'm using my AEG block and I wont sweat not having the squirters....if you are shooting for really high HP, then it'd probably be a smart investment. But I'm shooting for 300-400hp, and I believe the AEG block will be sufficient. 

I have a few questions for those that have done this build: 

Is using the 16v wires a better idea then using 1.8t coilpacks with the harnesses added in to the 2.0 engine harness?


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have a AZG it has squitters so it better to have them? I have pistons and rods to make the 20v swap but i need to get the other parts. Zaskar is doing a build below is the build with a AEG 20v and a F4t. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5763126-AEG-to-20v-Engine&p=78481999#post78481999


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## redline_etc (Jan 21, 2012)

There is water menthol injection that will keep the piston temps down if you plan on big hp numbers :wave:


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## vwknight (Aug 27, 2008)

instead of replacing or notching the pistons, couldn't the right size headspacer keep the valve from smacking the piston?


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## chasem407 (Feb 19, 2008)

vwknight said:


> instead of replacing or notching the pistons, couldn't the right size headspacer keep the valve from smacking the piston?


 Ehh, compression would be too low I believe


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## VwBoy2.0L (Sep 30, 2008)

Do they have any AVH blocks?


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## vdub_jeep_club (Sep 25, 2012)

Has anyone successfully done this yet? NA at least?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

vdub_jeep_club said:


> Has anyone successfully done this yet? NA at least?


has anyone successfully done what?


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

I still need more info on this. 
iv been reading and preparing to build this for about a year. 
I need to know what parts are needed. 
on hand i have
2002 awp gti donor car, the block is unsuable. 
i have an AEB head in my basement and a AEG block and Crank. 

I would like to use the AEB head and find a AVH block with Oil squirters. 
- 
as for the parts list i think i need but know im missing some stuff. 
Eurospec 83mm 5v pistons
forged rods (144mm, 20mm)
European head gasket
1.8t timing belt kit 
- 
id also need to shave down the 4th oil squiter 
then everything else from a stock 1.8t gets swapped over ? 


could Richard_Cranium or mk4_2.ho chime in i belive you are buildin gor have built them ?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

you need pistons for 92.8mm crank and 144mm rods. Thats about it. you can swap the 06X oil filter flange over, etc. depending on piston size will depend on gasket you use. I did not have to modify any squirters for my AVH block.


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

Perfect, thanks for the information. 

just have to decide if i want to use the aeg crank or swap to a TDI crank. then ill be ordering a parts list


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

If you use tdi crank you will need different pistons.


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

doing custom pistons anyways


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## ayrdesigns74 (Nov 28, 2010)

I have a APK block setup with a AGU big port head turbo manifold ko3 turbo custom piping running with Megasquirt 2 it revs to 7000 rpm easy it needs tuning some more but it runs except for the clutch slipping a bit, I took out the pistons got them notch for the fifth valve ,realy nice set of MAHLE pistons by the way used a 2.0l head gasket i got from Germanautoparts.com 1.8t heat bolts and rod bolts


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## ayrdesigns74 (Nov 28, 2010)

[video]http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7263720810/in/photostream/[/video] 
my project in the making


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

ayrdesigns.......i just creamed my pants, your ride is gonna be a beast. get a build thread going man, a lot of peeps will follow it. good luck with the build :beer:


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

so whats a better base. 

AWP block bored out with a 2L crank. 
or 
AZG/AVH block. 

is the bored out 1.8t going to face over heating issues while idling in traffic. 
physically when it comes to size are the blocks different ?


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

six of one, half a dozen of the other


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

The benefit to the 2L block is you will have a 92.8mm crank already. The block is also beefier. All the 1.8t accessories will bolt on. The only downside I can see is the coolant port on back of head isn't tapped.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

bonesaw said:


> The block is also beefier.


They're from the same casting. So, this is not true.



bonesaw said:


> The only downside I can see is the coolant port on back of head isn't *drilled*/tapped.


Small addition.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Less boring. Haha. It really doesn't matter


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

elRey said:


> They're from the same casting.


how did you find out they are from the same casting? 

iv looked at both and feel the 2l in fact beefier.

I have an awp block on my back step and an aeg in my basement i could pull out and compare


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

1999.5GTIVR6 said:


> how did you find out they are from the same casting?
> 
> iv looked at both and feel the 2l *in fact* beefier.
> 
> I have an awp block on my back step and an aeg in my basement i could pull out and compare


Please do and document where you think one is beefier than the other. Then come back and share your findings.


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## zaskar (Jan 17, 2000)

1999.5GTIVR6 said:


> how did you find out they are from the same casting?
> 
> iv looked at both and feel the 2l in fact beefier.
> 
> I have an awp block on my back step and an aeg in my basement i could pull out and compare


If you have a aeg, why don't you use it? Just for the oil squirter thing? remove the 4 halen bolt that fill the hole, and screw your 4 oil quirter, plug and play.

As for the head gasket, anyone ever took a look at a 2.0 fsi head gasket and compare it ?


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have some pistons around here... Issam Abed sold me those pistons. They are 83mm bore & 92.8mm stroke. 

If anyone interested PM me... I will sell them for a good price.
The pistons have shot peened rods, they are not forged but i will include them and have ARP bolts.


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## Thabble (Dec 21, 2012)

Ok back to the intake question. Is there a difference on the intake side of the 1.8 head and 2.0. If not why not just use the same intake/throttle body off the 2.0. No need to change pedal boxes and could possibly keep ecu with a hot tune. I'm not incredibly knowledgeable, just curious, would it work?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Major differences between 1.8 20v head and 2.0 8v head. You could look into a European 1.8 20v NA manifold which is similar to 2.0 design


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## Thabble (Dec 21, 2012)

Ok i may have to...with everything that would go into this swap you'd be just as well with a full swap and be done...what code is that head?


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have custom piston for N/A application. I will sell them at a good price, used them for 1 month only. I sold the car to a friend without the engine and i torn the engine apart. 
The only thing left are the pistons. 

Anyone interested PM me for the price.


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

Specs on pistons?


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## t3t4boost (Jan 21, 2014)

*Build 20/20 with a aba mrk3 engine management sytem?????*

Tis is an old hread but I am working on a aba 20 valve build. wonder if will be able to bolt up the head and plug the oil dran holes. I will plan to run a head shim.0 40 inch or so to get lower compression I hope 9 to 1 ?? I hope this also gives valve clearance. I plan to run the turbo bild on c2 software from kinetics they workgreat on my 8 valve. plan to use aba throttel body hopefuly mount a t3t4 turbo on a manifold if I can find one.

what do you think??????


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

This thread should answer your questions? what pistons do you plan to use? 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1674618-20V-Hybrid-How-To&highlight=20v+g60


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

ayrdesigns74 said:


> I have a APK block setup with a AGU big port head turbo manifold ko3 turbo custom piping running with Megasquirt 2 it revs to 7000 rpm easy it needs tuning some more but it runs except for the clutch slipping a bit, I took out the pistons got them notch for the fifth valve ,realy nice set of MAHLE pistons by the way used a 2.0l head gasket i got from Germanautoparts.com 1.8t heat bolts and rod bolts


Do you have any picture with the pistons machined for the 5th valve? That would be awesome to have on this thread :beer:


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## lowlyfetuner (Jul 7, 2014)

my 20/20 build thread 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7048805-My-2l-20v-build


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## t3t4boost (Jan 21, 2014)

*To use mark 4 ecu or not?????*

 I don't blame you. 
I am building a 20/20 engine now and I know one thing. No way can you use the mark 4 engine management system!!!!!!! Forget it and save your self lots of trouble and time and mostly money $$$$$$$$$
You have to flash the software for 60 lb injectors and even then it will never run right. Impossible. Go stand alone with mega squirt for 500 $.
The older mark 3 computers worked great with just a custom chip, but if you remove your ecu the car will not perform well at all, lots of problems. ::banghead:


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

t3t4boost said:


> I don't blame you.
> I am building a 20/20 engine now and I know one thing. No way can you use the mark 4 engine management system!!!!!!! Forget it and save your self lots of trouble and time and mostly money $$$$$$$$$
> You have to flash the software for 60 lb injectors and even then it will never run right. *Impossible*. Go stand alone with mega squirt for 500 $.
> The older mark 3 computers worked great with just a custom chip, but if you remove your ecu the car will not perform well at all, lots of problems. ::banghead:


Then call me Kim Possible.


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## zaskar (Jan 17, 2000)

t3t4boost said:


> I don't blame you.
> I am building a 20/20 engine now and I know one thing. No way can you use the mark 4 engine management system!!!!!!! Forget it and save your self lots of trouble and time and mostly money $$$$$$$$$
> You have to flash the software for 60 lb injectors and even then it will never run right. Impossible. Go stand alone with mega squirt for 500 $.
> The older mark 3 computers worked great with just a custom chip, but if you remove your ecu the car will not perform well at all, lots of problems. ::banghead:


How you came to the conclusion that you NEED 60lbs injectors, ? those or almost 4 time the size of the stock one, with that in head, it's sure you can't make it work great, you have a 15% HP improvement over the stock 8v head, there's no way you need that much fuel, stock injectors with a 4 bar fpr would probably just do it fine. 

I build mine almost 3 years ago, it's my daily, Im running turbo and I run for the first year with stock g60 injectors wich are 30lbs I beleive ? arround 260cc. now im on 550 wich is still smaler than 60lbs injectors. It would be ridiculous to run 60lbs on a N/A....


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## t3t4boost (Jan 21, 2014)

*way to go - 8 valve turbo*

:laugh: I have built 3 mark 111 aba 8 valve turbo builds. I am running 25 pounds boost and the car is very fast and loud. You can see this car race at youtube under title vw turbo beats mustang . This build is very cheap and easy to build and it runs like new an a C2 software chip for 0bd 1 1995 car. Use t3t4 turbo from china cheap manifold and you need to run a cut out exaust for much more horse power. Take my word for it, you will love it. Live the shop life forever.


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## t3t4boost (Jan 21, 2014)

*Yes It takes time to understand. Hi zaskar*

I meant to say am building a 20 20 turbo build. I have built 3 mark 111 turbo cars and now am doing the impossible . My 8 valve aba engine runs lean at 25 lbs boost on 42 lb 440 cc injectors . A 20 valve turbo at 25 lbs will need 60 lb 650 cc injectors for sure. My son just needed to go from 42 lb to 60 lb on his ABA 16 valve and his engine dinoed at 360 hP. It was dangerously lean at 14.5 air fuel after 6 K rpm.They are perfect for fuel mixture. I am sorry I failed to say my engine is turbo charged. Your car is very slow just running na, you would love to up grade to a turbo engine. If your car is a mk 111 and I hope it is you can run the stock wire harness and only buy a c2 motorsports chip. Plug and play. Glad to know another horsepower head. Loving the shop life. 
By the way I am building a 20 v on a aba block now , I think it is coming together good so far. I am going to run it on the stock mark 111 computer and c2 software.


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## t3t4boost (Jan 21, 2014)

*What to do for engine management*

hello deep ntodubs.
Most people make engine management tooooo complicated. I simplify everything and have been running mark 3 computer stock harness and only install a c2 software chip for 42 lb injectors. It runns perfect. Plug and play. But if you are buildin a mark 4 and I don't know why you would, I don't like them the system is impossible to flash and can not be changed and always has serious bugs and problems. Build a mark 111 and turbo away. Use a stand alone system for 500$ from the start , is the answer. Loving the shop life.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

This thread is about MK4 (mark iv, mark 1111, mark 4, a4) cars and engines. NOT MK3, mark 111, a3 cars/engines.


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## elRey (May 15, 2001)

lowlyfetuner said:


> The only thing that won't work will be the n75 valve and vvt. The 2l ecu doesn't have the ability to control boost because inside the ecu it doesn't have the hardware on the board to control it.



Not true, at least for DBW 2.0L ECUs. You can flash a 1.8T file onto a DBW 2.0L ECU and it will be a fully functional 1.8T ECU.


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## SofaKingYllw (Nov 8, 2011)

I have a spare 2.0 from a golf laying around. Have there been any advancements on this swap?


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## what is das auto (Jul 30, 2013)

bumb


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## cameronsux123 (Apr 2, 2020)

Bump
Just want to make sure the BEV fits into the "and newer" part of the original post. I have a Mk4 with the BEV and am not entirely sure whether I should keep the BEV or do an AEG swap. Theres an AEG at a junkyard near me and it looks decent for the block at least.


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## Maurilio_BR (Nov 2, 2020)

Alright, so I've skimmed through the thread to acquire as much as I could, and basically a 2.0L engine would need different or reworked pistons to properly work with a 20v head.

I'm planning on doing a 1.6L AKL with 20v head, and was wondering if anyone would know if I would also need pistons? Planning on standalone ECU, and a turbo in the future (not really more than 200hp)
I ask here because I know the 1.6 AKL shares similarities with the 2.0 APK, I run an APK intake and injectors on my AKL and know of people who run the APK head itself on an AKL, APK ECU on AKL, etc...


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Maurilio_BR said:


> Alright, so I've skimmed through the thread to acquire as much as I could, and basically a 2.0L engine would need different or reworked pistons to properly work with a 20v head.
> 
> I'm planning on doing a 1.6L AKL with 20v head, and was wondering if anyone would know if I would also need pistons? Planning on standalone ECU, and a turbo in the future (not really more than 200hp)
> I ask here because I know the 1.6 AKL shares similarities with the 2.0 APK, I run an APK intake and injectors on my AKL and know of people who run the APK head itself on an AKL, APK ECU on AKL, etc...


You will need pistons but the good news is you can use early (20 mm pin) 1.8T pistons.


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## Maurilio_BR (Nov 2, 2020)

vwpat said:


> You will need pistons but the good news is you can use early (20 mm pin) 1.8T pistons.


Hey man thanks, currently doing an OEM rebuild then next step is 20v, I'll post here if it actually works, but don't expect to hear from me anytime soon lol.


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