# VTEC SWAP IN A RABBIT



## mk1hero (Oct 3, 2007)

JUST WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS DONE A HONDA TRANSPLANT IN A MK1. I SAW A GREEN RABBIT IN PERFORMANCE VW THAT HAD IT DONE AND AM CURIOUS IF ANYONE HAS DONE ONE. I AM BY NO MEANS SAYING ITS A GRAET IDEA, IT JUST STRUCK ME AS VERY ODD AND JUST WONDERING IF IT WILL BE A UP AND COMING TREND


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## slodub2 (May 11, 2008)

that would be sad! bad idea thats a major diss on vw


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## Hannebauer (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: VTEC SWAP IN A RABBIT (mk1hero)*

Dude, CAPS LOCK.... Turn it off.

The reason for the swap was simple, Honda engines make great power, but little torque. Some people have more experience tuning the H and when they finally come over they may be frustrated that their car is not showing improvements as fast. So they go to the engine they know can work.
As for it becoming a "trend" few people would go to that level to be "trendy" as it requires a mass amount of custom work. And about it increasing in frequency; Such endeavors have always been around in the world of hot roding, it is just that with modern media that you happen to learn of them.
If some one stuck a H1v8 in a rabbit, would the reaction be so negative?
SPECIFICATIONS:
75 degree odd fire V8 
2.8 LITER, 170 cu. in. displacement 
84mm Bore X 63mm Stroke 
4 cams, 32 valves via internal silent chain 
530mm wide x 485mm long x 530mm high 
400HP @ 10,000 rpm with stock street cams 
245 ft-lbs torque @ 7500 rpm 
200 lbs engine weight 
Billet nitrided steel 180 degree crank 
4340 H-beam con-rods with ARP bolts 
Billet 6061-T6 aluminum crankcase 
Dry sump oil system with 4 stage pump 
7.25" or 5.5" Twin disc clutch 
DTA S80 full sequential ECU 
Unique cylinder offset and cam drive arrangement yields a compact design- Patented 

Such a swap is just people doing what they can to make the car perform how they want... sure there probably is a little of desire to be different but most people stop short of trying to differ when it means failure.


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## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

*Re: (slodub2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slodub2* »_that would be sad! bad idea thats a major diss on vw

i hope you don't consider yourself an automobile enthusiast.
OP, is this the one you saw in PVW?


























_Modified by CodeMan at 7:02 PM 8-25-2008_


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (CodeMan)*

If I had the money and another car, I would have swapped a K20/24 into my mk3. It'd be slow because of the weight, but I wouldn't care. Those motors make mid-200whp on pump gas without even trying. Its retarded.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (VWn00b)*

That is worse then putting a Chevy motor in a Ford. 
lots of work to pull that off, but im a purist. i think only a vw engine should be in a vw, never a honda engine.


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## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I would drive the crap out of that. you all are crazy for not having respect for that or have never actually been in a fast all motor honduh. theres a guy who runs around my area with a full JDM type R swap in a old mini-cooper lets just say its no joke.


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## green92gti (Apr 1, 2006)

*Re: (16vtblackjetta)*

DO IT!
If i didn't have 10 other projects i would have done it allready. I would just do a sohc vtec obd1 swap. Motors and trans can be has practically for free.The transmissions are very hard to break. I had 24 inch slicks and was dumping the cluth a 6 grand with 10 pound of boost allredy built on the 2 step and never broke the 100% stock trans. Daily drove it, took it to the dragstrip and roadrace course and couldn't break it. Clutches are dirt cheap and the free tuning software is as good as most standalones. I had a sohc with a 1000 dollar rod/piston/turbo build that made 280 whp and ran like factory, and still got 38 mpg off boost. Unfortunately i sold the car for fear of getting it stolen http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif . You just cant beat honda effiency. The only expensive part would be the axles wich i think cost about 600 to have custom made.


_Modified by green92gti at 7:09 PM 8-27-2008_


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## The Holy Molar (Jun 13, 2004)

*Re: (16vtblackjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vtblackjetta* »_I would drive the crap out of that. you all are crazy for not having respect for that or have never actually been in a fast all motor honduh. theres a guy who runs around my area with a full JDM type R swap in a old mini-cooper lets just say its no joke.

That's exactly what's I'll be putting together in about a year from now.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

rotary in a 240 Volvo..... SUPER SICCCCCC!


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## thatAstock18T (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (CodeMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CodeMan* »_
i hope you don't consider yourself an automobile enthusiast.
OP, is this the one you saw in PVW?


























this is fing awesome mad props from me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scurvy Bandit (Sep 12, 2003)

*Re: (thatAstock18T)*

3 rotors in a bmw?


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## mk2allday (Apr 27, 2007)

look the bottom line is that vw engines for the most part arent desined to breath. honda engines are and their for you can make them fast with little effort. to make a vw fast it is harder. hondas will allways have good gas mileage if thats all you care about but vws have dam good gas mileage as well. i just think that it is a straight up discrase to have a honda motor in a vw, if thats what you want to do to make power than drive a honda or learn how to make your vw fast because you can do it pretty easily and cheap if your know what you are doing.all throe out time in the past centry of automobiles people have been swaping engines from car to car for the power but their is a line that shouldent be crossed. a type r motor in a mini would create some serious power but what about a vr6 in a mini how would that make you feel, if your gunna go throe all the effort to put a type are motor in a mini why not go the extra mile for a vr6 and have some more power. i see people all the time use vw engines in other cars for power.


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## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (mk2allday)*

you know nothing about performance then.


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## slodub2 (May 11, 2008)

honda= no torque
no torque= lame


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## MattP (Nov 14, 2002)

*Re: VTEC SWAP IN A RABBIT (mk1hero)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1hero* »_ GRAET


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## Hannebauer (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (mk2allday)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2allday* »_... why not go the extra mile for a vr6 and have some more power. i see people all the time use vw engines in other cars for power.

Compared to a vtec engine, the VR is a pig... Trust me, I have one; I am going to be putting in my 1980 GTI. The reason I am using it is because I got it for killer cheap, and it is my daily.
The VR has the SAME POWER as a STOCK B18 (GSR), with alot more possibility for power left in the B18. How many NA Vr's do you see with even close to 100hp/L?








Not to mention how much more the VR weighs... And it would not fit in the mini bay (Or other for that matter) nearly as well as the Honda engine.
What good performing, Non VAG cars, commonly recieve VW swaps? (Yes roadster need not apply)


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## misc.motorsports (Dec 2, 2006)

*Re: (Hannebauer)*

this is a hybrid and swap forum and people are bashing doing something different for a swap








I think you have to have an open mind if you wanna build anything fun nowadays


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

don't mind the idiots... they aren't real enthusiasts. 
thats an awesome idea and http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to the green rabbit.
there was a VW bug at a local show a while back that had a subaru WRX engine... it was so badass.


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: (misc.motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *misc.motorsports* »_this is a hybrid and swap forum and people are bashing doing something different for a swap








I think you have to have an open mind if you wanna build anything fun nowadays

This.
Real enthusiasts, i.e. people who aren't nutswinging badge-whores, don't dislike something that adds performance, just because of the manufacturer or country of origin.


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## Flipdriver80 (Jul 17, 2004)

*Re: (The Kilted Yaksman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Kilted Yaksman* »_
This.
Real enthusiasts, i.e. people who aren't nutswinging badge-whores, don't dislike something that adds performance, just because of the manufacturer or country of origin.


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## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (Flipdriver80)*

im not even going to comment about what i think about a honda motor in a vw. Lets just say i belive if you think a honda motor is awesome in a vw then your truley a ***** sell your vw and go buy those pos


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## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (luv2exl8t)*

god i love it you people have no balls.


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## Hannebauer (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: (luv2exl8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *luv2exl8t* »_im not even going to comment about what i think about a honda motor in a vw...

Then leave it at that.


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## Dyelon (Jul 31, 2006)

*Re: (mk2allday)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk2allday* »_look the bottom line is that vw engines for the most part arent desined to breath. honda engines are and their for you can make them fast with little effort. to make a vw fast it is harder. hondas will allways have good gas mileage if thats all you care about but vws have dam good gas mileage as well. i just think that it is a straight up discrase to have a honda motor in a vw, if thats what you want to do to make power than drive a honda or learn how to make your vw fast because you can do it pretty easily and cheap if your know what you are doing.all throe out time in the past centry of automobiles people have been swaping engines from car to car for the power but their is a line that shouldent be crossed. a type r motor in a mini would create some serious power but what about a vr6 in a mini how would that make you feel, if your gunna go throe all the effort to put a type are motor in a mini why not go the extra mile for a vr6 and have some more power. i see people all the time use vw engines in other cars for power.

Wow. Your amazing.








A stock Civic Type R has the same hp as the Vr6 ( the integra type R has more) a VR might sound cooler, but it does not have more power sorry.


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## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (Dyelon)*

i did leave it at that ...i was commenting on what i think about ppl and hondas not the motors in their in side vw














where im from every honda that dirves around here is a p.o.s fiftey colors and an ebay muffler that sounds like my dirtbike. Dont get me wrong if someone has done up a HONDA the correct way and not b.s is and its all 1 color then i have no problem with them they did their **** the rite way LETS JUSTSAY I HATE HONDAS


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## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

*Re: (luv2exl8t)*

Aww, did some guy with superior technical acumen / fabrication experience offend your delicate sensibilities / youthful prejudice? 








Show me another na 4 cyl engine making ~100hp/L that you can find in a north american junkyard.
Hint: it's not from germany either.


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## glasmo2 (Aug 2, 2008)

*Re: (CodeMan)*

i think that any time vw and honda comes together....its usually a pissing contest......i myself own a rhd civic and a 77 rabbit........i see no reason why we cant all just get along especially when its such a cool swap....any for any haters out there, my 2 cents is honda makes some of the best motors EVER....the displacement vs power is rival to anything out there...however dubs look and drive better (smoother that is)
the bottom line is vw and honda are great cars for the money


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## VR6DPLMT. (Mar 1, 2003)

*Re: (glasmo2)*

Could you imagine if VW and Honda Teamed up to make a car? The electronic and reliability of a Honda and the engine toughness of a VW? The high end breathing of the Honda and the mid range grunt of a VW. Imagine if these 2 companies did come together to make a car it would be insane.


_Modified by VR6DPLMT. at 10:22 AM 9-17-2008_


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## 16vtblackjetta (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: (VR6DPLMT.)*

i have to agree^^


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## daver (Jul 14, 2002)

*Re: (VR6DPLMT.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VR6DPLMT.* »_Could you imagine if VW and Honda Teamed up to make a car? ...The high end breathing of the Honda and the mid range grunt of a VW. 

_Modified by VR6DPLMT. at 10:22 AM 9-17-2008_

you realize those two things are mutually exclusive, by design, and either company can, and has made either type of engine. The only 'real' n/a cure for gutless high rpm motors is more displacement (or a lighter car), but thats just not in honda's formula.


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## 16V4LIFE (Sep 29, 2004)

*Re: (slodub2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slodub2* »_honda= no torque
no torque= lame

I love seeing comments like this. I prefer VW's, but to not realize that the Honda motors are far superior size to size when compared with VW motors is just blatant ignorance. I'd be happy with any swap that makes my car better.


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## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: (16V4LIFE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16V4LIFE* »_
I love seeing comments like this. I prefer VW's, but to not realize that the Honda motors are far superior size to size when compared with VW motors is just blatant ignorance. I'd be happy with any swap that makes my car better.

I used to be an ignorant **** who thought that way. Then I became friends with some Honda tuners, one of which has his own performance shop with a dyno. If I could avoid getting burned at the stake, I'd swap a K20 into my MK1, crazy torque from way down low and screams to 8300rpm stock! Honda's performance engines use technology that they've developed in their racing engines and motorbike engines. Sure I still make fun of how D-series engines are so drastically different between D16Y7 and D16Y8 and such, but the fact of the matter is that they're always evolving (unlike VW engines, same basic design from 75-99).


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## vdubmike2 (Sep 21, 2004)

*Re: (luv2exl8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *luv2exl8t* »_im not even going to comment about what i think about a honda motor in a vw. Lets just say i belive if you think a honda motor is awesome in a vw then your truley a ***** sell your vw and go buy those pos








my good laugh of the day


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## 90vwgti (Dec 13, 2008)

*Re: (vdubmike2)*

swaps are sweet.
everyone around my town hated me because I put a V8 in my 1990 RX7 GTU.
but meh it was light. it had a blown motor. i had a V8, and thus made it fast.
was great. still love that car.


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## CT.WREKT-1 (Jan 25, 2006)

definitely agree with the notion that this is a swap thread and bashing on a unique swap is uncalled for. Compare some numbers between the motors, like stated above, honda has been way more technologically advanced in their motors compared to a lot of other companies. They even tried weird Sh*t, like oval pistons in their bikes. Vtec is one of the most well designed and engineered engines, everyone tries to make a variant or newer improvments. BTW, i really hate hondas and the car itself, but motor...i'm not stupid, nor stubborn.


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## MK2kid989 (Aug 16, 2008)

my question..
how hard would this swap be?
i was going to sell my mk2 wiht the x-flow swap for a EG because it would be more reliable.. and a lot cheaper to upgrade...
but maybe a GSR swap in my mk2 would be.. a fun project..
hmmm


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## theguy1084 (Feb 4, 2007)

*Re: (The Kilted Yaksman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Kilted Yaksman* »_
This.
Real enthusiasts, i.e. people who aren't nutswinging badge-whores, don't dislike something that adds performance, just because of the manufacturer or country of origin.

A real enthusiast is someone who doesnt need to go outside a brand to "TRY" to make it better. They love the brand for what it is. You may be some kind of enthusiast but not a VOLKSWAGEN enthusiast. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## bazoldskoolmk2 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: (90vwgti)*

sweet! hats off to anyone who dreamz and does
**** the cost and time
i did it
who can argue with that
i prefer the idea of using honda technology yet retaining my 9a 16v block
currently investigating what management to use
before i turbo or supercharge
reckon i could fool the computer and retain my bosch motronic but in reality- that would be silly
methinks


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jul 28, 2008)

Dunno if anyone cares... but i know it's fun to drive! AAHH!


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## hondaguy!! (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Mfoehrkolb)*

sick ek man,yours?


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jul 28, 2008)

aye


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (Mfoehrkolb)*

honda motors are awesome
vw motors are awesome.
all in all they're both just hunks of steel and aluminum formed into shapes, and then a badge applied.
what if honda had the vr and honda motors were vw motors..
wtf does it matter.
hondas heads flow tremendously stock....it's their thing.
Vr is a compact i/v 6 cyl that can fit in a FF platform and makes good torque and has an impressive powerband even for it's low hp rating compared to smaller motors in similar cars.
anything is possible with any motor. i don't want to hear that because its a vw motor it cant produce as much. anything can with time and effort...no one will ever convince me that a japanese motor is better than a german motor...or vice versa. it's just metal. no magic.
oh no honda motors make more power n/a then a vr can with smaller displacement.
but be greatful for each of their strengths and weaknesses beyond power. 
The VR has the ability to fit in so many places...It's INCREDIBLY strong because of it's geometry...and hold boost like a champ and make stupid power and torque when force fed without opening up the block. It's a marvel of technology thanks to it's design and versatility and a legend because of its infamous VR6 sound. 
Honda engines breathe like nuts! they rev, they're light, and they are also technological marvels...they constantly make more than 100hp/l naturally aspirated and are incredible machines...make tons of power with boost, and are little rockets of racing tech at its best.
the ability to transcend brands and think on a larger scale than just being nationalistic to one brand of engine or car is being able to think almost like the people with the billion dollar minds; the ones that think the unthinkable; the people that see more than meets the eye; the people who make the phenomenal technological advances and push society forward towards the future, who eventually emerge and become legends, innovators, inventors, heroes of an era or time. 
Remember the saying: "Think outside the box" because theres a whole universe of opportunites, ideas, and "firsts" you're completely neglecting if you dont that could lead to who knows what kind of things that you'd later proceed to say "**** why didn't i think of that" about.
that applies to anything....building cars, wrtiting music, designing, architecture, alternative fuels, future human existance...absolutely anything

i think a honda motor in a mk1 is an awesome idea, and im actually planning on doing it eventually...especially if i get this rabbit i've been eying for a few days now









i know that was kind of random but idk i felt like typing for some reason


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (theguy1084)*


_Quote, originally posted by *theguy1084* »_
A real enthusiast is someone who doesnt need to go outside a brand to "TRY" to make it better. They love the brand for what it is. You may be some kind of enthusiast but not a VOLKSWAGEN enthusiast. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

You sir, are an imbecile.


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## bazoldskoolmk2 (Sep 4, 2008)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

everyone to their own! its ok to have an opinion, 
be it good or bad, biased or blind!
surely thats what forums are for
develop ideas amongst enthusiasts, lots of enthusiasts all with one thing in common but often very unique!
the vw scene is alive and kickin


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## Wishing on a Vr (Feb 7, 2003)

*Re: (bazoldskoolmk2)*

Dude if you got the funds then go for it... If thats what you want then give it a shot. A type R or GSR rabbit is definitely going to move out quick. Its a more practical swap compared to the one thread a stumbled across with someone trying to put a vr into a s2000


_Modified by Wishing on a Vr at 5:34 AM 12-24-2008_


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (Wishing on a Vr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wishing on a Vr* »_Its a more practical swap compared to the one thread a stumbled across with someone trying to put a vr into a s2000

KingVR








Yeah, replace a motor that is capable of flowing 400 CFM for a VR6


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## granolasupreme (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: (RipCity Euros)*

In my opinion you are a hypocrite to say your a vw enthusiast and swap a honda motor into your vw. Even though honda makes engines that make 100hp/ i doubt that the fabrication costs to mount the engine and drivetrain will make the swap justifiable because of cost. A 1.8t swap would be cheaper and easier with making around the same power of around 200hp. Either way you still have a fwd car and making big power will only show how limited that type of drivetrain is when it comes to big power.


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## Mfoehrkolb (Jul 28, 2008)

*Re: (granolasupreme)*


_Quote, originally posted by *granolasupreme* »_In my opinion you are a hypocrite to say your a vw enthusiast and swap a honda motor into your vw. Even though honda makes engines that make 100hp/ i doubt that the fabrication costs to mount the engine and drivetrain will make the swap justifiable because of cost. A 1.8t swap would be cheaper and easier with making around the same power of around 200hp. Either way you still have a fwd car and making big power will only show how limited that type of drivetrain is when it comes to big power. 

--- It's not always about the power you make. People like to be unique. Nothing else to it. To swap a 1.8t into one or a b series/k series honda engine. Is comparing apples and oranges. It might be that fact your staying with VW parts, but if you knew anything technical about the honda engines. They are quite the beast when done correctly. Honda might not be making huge hp numbers stock, but what they have on the competition is power to weight ratio. My old STOCK integra RS (b18b1 non vtec) made like 130whp but only weighed a whopping 2200 pounds with full interior. Completely stock.
You just have to think open minded and remember. Not all people out there are trying to do the same thing as everyone else. Also, sometimes. Money isn't a problem for people who want to do those crazy swaps. So you can't even take that into consideration.
As for FWD being limited in power... If you look in my previous post. I drive a 520whp (soon to be 700whp in the summer!) h22 swapped civic. FWD... It's all about the way you set up your car. Quaife LSD with a Accord trans proves to be working well for my application.


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## granolasupreme (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: (Mfoehrkolb)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mfoehrkolb* »_
--- It's not always about the power you make. People like to be unique. Nothing else to it. To swap a 1.8t into one or a b series/k series honda engine. Is comparing apples and oranges. It might be that fact your staying with VW parts, but if you knew anything technical about the honda engines. They are quite the beast when done correctly. Honda might not be making huge hp numbers stock, but what they have on the competition is power to weight ratio. My old STOCK integra RS (b18b1 non vtec) made like 130whp but only weighed a whopping 2200 pounds with full interior. Completely stock.
You just have to think open minded and remember. Not all people out there are trying to do the same thing as everyone else. Also, sometimes. Money isn't a problem for people who want to do those crazy swaps. So you can't even take that into consideration.
As for FWD being limited in power... If you look in my previous post. I drive a 520whp (soon to be 700whp in the summer!) h22 swapped civic. FWD... It's all about the way you set up your car. Quaife LSD with a Accord trans proves to be working well for my application.

True, it is not always about the power the engine is putting out. I wouldnt say its really unique, its been done and made it to pvw already. When it comes down to it there both engines FI or NA. An old stock 16v scirocco made around 130hp and weighs alittle over 2k lbs built in 1984. I dont see how a stock integra is that groundbreaking but thats just me.
I really dont care if someone does this swap or not. If you really feel like it would be worth the effort then have at it. 
As for Fwd i ment it is limited because once you start making big power it cant put it to the ground. Ive been in multiple bt 1.8t making anywhere from 400-500hp and although they are fun the fwd platform is the achillies heel of the car. Unless your in your final gears all your doing is spinning tires. If you really want to be unique, fast, and have alot of money to waste try awd or rwd.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

i am swapping aba into mk2, i am unique!
as for german engeneering i like it, and i think, that germans themselves are less conservative( conservative=non progressive in a long run IMHO) about their cars than you are, i love my vw. now for example vw are true german cars where many of the models were and are styled in italy, and about the italiens they often make fun. the makaroni eaters! i beleive the b3 was styled in italy, the mk5 the mk2, that german roadster with w 12 where they put 2 vr-s together ( i don't remember the name), body was done by Pininfarina. how many german cars have german names? the secret of success in their cars is actually uniting the best of all worlds, with a good share of german practicism and pragmatism. never mind aluminum blocks though ( just my opinion). 
and what performs better? a 16v head with 2 camshafts or a 16v head with 1 camshaft?
for a new guy i think it is better to stick with something more basic this time and than research and research, because i beleive it will be difficult to do the swap.
GL!


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## shonhopkins22 (2 mo ago)

The Holy Molar said:


> *Re: (16vtblackjetta)*
> _Quote, originally posted by *16vtblackjetta* »_I would drive the crap out of that. you all are crazy for not having respect for that or have never actually been in a fast all motor honduh. theres a guy who runs around my area with a full JDM type R swap in a old mini-cooper lets just say its no joke.
> That's exactly what's I'll be putting together in about a year from now.


 how did it go ?


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## shonhopkins22 (2 mo ago)

The Holy Molar said:


> *Re: (16vtblackjetta)*
> 
> 
> _Quote, originally posted by *16vtblackjetta* »_I would drive the crap out of that. you all are crazy for not having respect for that or have never actually been in a fast all motor honduh. theres a guy who runs around my area with a full JDM type R swap in a old mini-cooper lets just say its no joke.
> ...


how did that go ?


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