# CIS-E to EFI? Practical? Possible?



## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

I may be aquiring an Audi 90 Quattro 20V I-5 very soon which has CIS-E injection. 1) What kind of crap am I getting myself into with this? (I dont know anything at all about mechanical injection.) 
2) What kind of work / parts would be required to convert to EFI? 
3) Would converting be practical? This is a daily driver, and I really don't have any intention of modding for more power, since I drive for a living. Reliability, on the other hand, is an absolute must. 
I guess you could call this "Fear of the unknown". I have never had any experience with these fuel systems, and the very few people I know who have absolutely hate them.


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## BillLeBob (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E to EFI? Practical? Possible? (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_I may be aquiring an Audi 90 Quattro *20V *I-5 very soon which has *CIS-E injection. * 

You might want to check that. You will wish it had CIS-e when the first injector dies. I think, if IIRC that all 20V's were the Hatichi injection. Though for your sake, I hope I'm wrong.


_Modified by BillLeBob at 1:23 PM 9-25-2007_


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: CIS-E to EFI? Practical? Possible? (ZX6R1033)*

If it has CIS-E you should be able to convert it with new injectors a new fuel rail, a new intake, a new throttle body and a new ECU such as Megasquirt. Might need more components as well.


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

http://www.audiworld.com/model/90/90-90.shtml

I don't know how reliable that is, but that page is where I found my info. It says CIS-E III


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## 8project4 (Jul 23, 2006)

i have a 91 coupe 7a 20v swap sitting in my garage. it's EFI. i'm trying to find out how bad is the wiring to put it in a 4kq.


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## BillLeBob (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (8project4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *8project4* »_i have a 91 coupe 7a 20v swap sitting in my garage. it's EFI. i'm trying to find out how bad is the wiring to put it in a 4kq.

Just run it on CIS, MS or 034. I would never, ever hassle with the Hatichi stuff.


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: CIS-E to EFI? Practical? Possible? (ZX6R1033)*

Audi 90 10V are CIS-E. Audi 90 20V are essentially LH-Motronic (maybe a Hitachi product, but Bosch licensed) with the crappy itachi injectors. No 20V ever had any version of continuous injection.
If you want to convert your 20V, you would be best off with 034 EFI, as there is lots of information available about this system on I5 engines. Even if you don't want to convert, you can convert your fuel rail and injectors to normal Bosch injectors. 034 sells a conversion kit. 
The 20V 7A engine will sing once freed from the Hitachi poo.


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

Motronic is a form of EFI, correct? 
I have pictures of the engine bay of the car I will be taking delivery of on Sunday. Take this for what its worth, coming from someone who knows nothing about mechanical injection, BUT... I could not see anything in the pictures that resembled any of the CIS parts I am familiar with (such as the extra fuel lines or the pump on the intake box). 
http://www.dv8films.com/engine.jpg


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

That is definitely not the CIS I've come to recognize. Looks like electronic port injection, so... EFI.


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*

CIS motronic is not a real fuel injection, but there are other versions of Motronic.
Yours is not CIS, so this is likely not the right forum for your question. Not sure what it is, but it is definitely a form of EFI. There is a fuel rail, individual pulsed injectors....not CIS.
On the bright side....your conversion TO EFI just got easier....
here is your pic of your engine so others don't have to look it up....










_Modified by PASHAT at 6:57 AM 9-26-2007_


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_Motronic is a form of EFI, correct? 
I have pictures of the engine bay of the car I will be taking delivery of on Sunday. Take this for what its worth, coming from someone who knows nothing about mechanical injection, BUT... I could not see anything in the pictures that resembled any of the CIS parts I am familiar with (such as the extra fuel lines or the pump on the intake box). 

Did you see my reply? The 20V has EFI, yes. The 10V 90 has CIS-E.
No, Motronic is not EFI. Motronic is the Bosch brand given to ANY integrated fuel AND ignition control system, thus you can have CIS-E Motronic in the Audi 80 3A and the Passat 16V, LH-Motronic in too many cars to mention, etc. New Motronic systems will be introduced based on different technologies that Bosch wants to try. But they are all Motronic, all the way back to CIS-E Motronic, because they all have one thing in common: integrated fuel and ignition control. Jetronic, on the other hand, is a fuel injection system with no ignition control: K- KE- L- D-Jetronic are all fuel-only systems. These are all Jetronic, and Jetronic does not imply any particular technology or type of injector.
Bosch nerds like me get uppity when terms like Motronic and Jetronic are used incorrectly and instinctively move to correct the mistakes.


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
Did you see my reply? 

I did. You were the one I was gearing my question toward. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
Audi 90 20V are essentially LH-Motronic (maybe a Hitachi product, but Bosch licensed) with the crappy itachi injectors.



_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_
Motronic is a form of EFI, correct?



I am trying to catch on as fast as I can to exactly what is what here. 

_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
The 20V has EFI, yes.
No, Motronic is not EFI. 


Didn't you contradict your first post with this one? You said in the first post the 20V was essentially mototronic... but now you are saying mototronic is not EFI, and the 20V has EFI?

I'm sorry man... I'm trying to understand..


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_

Didn't you contradict your first post with this one? You said in the first post the 20V was essentially mototronic... but now you are saying mototronic is not EFI, and the 20V has EFI?



Hi: 
I can understand the confusion, but what you are being told is that there are many many forms of Motronic. One early version is CIS-E Motronic. That is not an EFI fuel injection system. Many other versions of Motronic ARE EFI and NOT CIS. Car can't be both CIS and EFI. EFI has pulsed injectors.
In any event.....Yours is NOT CIS, so this is the wrong forum.


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (PASHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PASHAT* »_

Hi: 
I can understand the confusion, but what you are being told is that there are many many forms of Motronic. One early version is CIS-E Motronic. That is not an EFI fuel injection system. Many other versions of Motronic ARE EFI and NOT CIS. Car can't be both CIS and EFI. EFI has pulsed injectors.
In any event.....Yours is NOT CIS, so this is the wrong forum.

Ahh... thank you for clearing that up! Yeah, I understand the difference between mechanical and electronic injection. It was the whole motronic thing.
Thank you again guys!


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## PASHAT (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: CIS-E to EFI? Practical? Possible? (ZX6R1033)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_
2) What kind of work / parts would be required to convert to EFI? 



NONE!!!









_Quote, originally posted by *ZX6R1033* »_
3) Would converting be practical? 
 
Not when you alread HAVE EFI!!!


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## ZX6R1033 (Oct 5, 2005)

lol!


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (PASHAT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PASHAT* »_what you are being told is that there are many many forms of Motronic. One early version is CIS-E Motronic. That is not an EFI fuel injection system. Many other versions of Motronic ARE EFI and NOT CIS. Car can't be both CIS and EFI. EFI has pulsed injectors.

All correct. There is no contradiction in what I said. Think of "Motronic" like "Internal combustion engine." A piston engine and a rotary are both IC engines, but share no internal parts and have nothing in common beyond the classification "internal combustion." 
CIS-E Motronic and LH Motronic are both Motronic, but that only means they are both integrated fuel and ignition control. Motronic does not imply EFI. It only means that it manages ignition and fuel from the same control unit. 
Many people make this worse by referring to LH-Motronic as simply "Motronic," which makes people associate the word "Motronic" with the fact that LH Motronic is EFI. 
Down the line, it is possible that Bosch will develop a technology beyond the pulsed injector and EFI as we know it. It is probable that, on that day, Bosch will release an entirely new system that they will call "___-Motronic."


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_Down the line, it is possible that Bosch will develop a technology beyond the pulsed injector and EFI as we know it. It is probable that, on that day, Bosch will release an entirely new system that they will call "___-Motronic."

"Diesel-Motronic"?


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_
"Diesel-Motronic"?









Heh, since Motronic means integrated fuel and ignition control, they'd have to find a place to add an ignition device.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Longitudinal* »_
Heh, since Motronic means integrated fuel and ignition control, they'd have to find a place to add an ignition device. 

Glow plugs!








Boom, problem solved!


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