# My C2 VR6-T, WOW!



## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

Hey everyone. I just thought Id make a post detailing my progress on my project. Well, Ive had it done for one week today and I really like it. I put down 281 whp and 261 tq at 9 (nearly 10) psi. I am running the stock 2 1/4 inch exhaust still and no intercooler. To say the least i am astounded by the numbers and am very happy. Here is the specifics of my setup:
T04 60-1 with CBB, Big Shaft, .58ar hotside
ATP Manifold
Custom DP
Tial 38mm Wastegate (Open Dump)(7.5psi)
C2 Stage 1 v2
310's
Greddy Type S BOV
OBX Catch can ala Ebay








Greddy Full Auto Turbo Timer
Bosch F6DTC plugs
Ive never seen anyone else run a T04 the way I have so I think its pretty unique. The turbo would not have fit the other way due to the tangential mount, and i think it came out very well. I did relocate the wastegate to the opposite side. I still am very far away from being complete. I am going to go back and relocate the battery to the trunk so I have enough room for the turbo intake to get all the way to behind the headlight. I am also going to use a Griffin Intercooler like Marty's setup. I am anxiously awaiting C2 Stage 2 with the 440's! MMMM. 
I do have some problems however. I am getting some check engine codes when I get on it in my high rpms. When I check them they come out at multiple misfires on cylinders 4,5, and 6. If anyone could shed some light on that it would be much appreciated. The misfires are small, the car seems to hesitate under boost...its odd. Maybe Jeff or Chris can chime in http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Also, the cars idle will kind of bog a little bit after coming off of a wot run in 2nd or 3rd. It will dip down 2-3 times to the 600-500 rpm range but recover. Again, if anyone has any suggestions, thatd be great. Other than those slight issues, its runs well. Good AF and everything. Here's some pics:


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

I was very close to getting one of those OBX catch can's. How's it look in person? I was worried about it looking cheesy in person.


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (I Wuz BottlFedG60)*

It looks really good actually...its just like the greddy, but it doesnt have any engaving of logos on it...its a very clean piece! Go buy one, lol


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## AlwaysInBoost (Sep 4, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

nice setup and numbers. what compression are you running?
about the misfires do you have any light weight pulleys or a light weight FW. the combination of those two has been the cause of misfires in cylinders 4,5 & 6 on lots of OBD2 cars. just a thought.


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## vr6chris (May 26, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

Looks real good, and it sounds like its running pretty good. I would start out by changing my plugs and wires. Up top, maybe not enough fuel is being burned, but just wait for chris or jeff to chime in. Good luck.


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (schrickedVR6)*

Im running the stock 10:1 compression for now, but when i get the C2 stage 2 ill get a head spacer. I do have an autotech 10lb flywheel....hmmm maybe thats it? But ive never gotten those codes until boost?


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## leebro61 (Nov 7, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

check your coilpack for the misfire. Also, the idle bog is cause you arent rerouting your BOV. Maybe Jeff can confirm, but id bet money thats the case


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## norman (Mar 8, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (leebro61)*

if you have an atp manifold and a to4 why is your turbo in upside-down? looks like a t3/t4 setup.


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (norman)*

It wont fit the other way because of the way the housing is offset. It would hit the t-body and stuff


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## Rocket SLC (Aug 4, 1999)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

Yeah, id check the spark plugs. Which ones are you running? And what does your gap look like? Try one heat range cooler.


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Rocket SLC)*

I had the stock vr-t plugs for this last week but now im at the f6dtc's, those are gapped at .31 *i think* and it still does it after changing to those. Also if it was plugs, wouldnt i see it on all cylinders? I only get it on 4,5,and 6....


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## 50CENT (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (norman)*


_Quote, originally posted by *norman* »_if you have an atp manifold and a to4 why is your turbo in upside-down? looks like a t3/t4 setup.

He most likely has a tang divided exhaust housing which is quite diff then a on center that you normally see
Brian


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (50CENT)*

Nice numbers...
Gavster, man you're spoiled.... you have no experience as to how BAD
a vr6T CAN run....







Its doesn't buck, it doesn't blacken your rear bumper,
get mid 20's mpg mileage (light footed of course







) and you can run part 
throttle at ANY boost at ANY rpm and you made what, 280whp...
sounds ok to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








The idle 'issue' you speak of 'could' be caused by your BOV venting
overboard, make sure its CLOSED at idle. Absolutely closed.
Or re-route it properly. Setting the valve 'hard' enough to stay closed at idle
means it takes a pretty high vacuum to open it and it isn't 
always open while the throttle is shut. (have I convinced you to re-route
it yet?







I can go on...)
I Think the real issue is the large MAF housing, at idle and High altitude
(your in Alb. NM right?) the MAF signal is 'below the radar'. This is an issue
that I may be able to figure out once I dissasemble the 'code'.
(fairly big task even for computer/software guys and my background
is Mechanical engineering, anybody good with assembly wanna lend a hand?)
Misfire stuff: I have experience this myself, it only happens above ~6500
at WOT. The rev limit is 6900.
This is the 'end' of the software, injectors are done, everything
is maxed out. I found by gapping the plugs to ~0.020"-0.022" and going to
2 steps colder than stock cleared it up for me...
I reccommend NGK BKR 7E plugs. 
And these plugs work fine down to ~5F for me. (42# software testing)
.031" gap is larger than stock spec. (0.028" is spec.)
Large gap plus heavy mix = no fire.
Just some suggestions....
Happy motoring,
Jeffrey Atwood



_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:32 PM 1-18-2004_


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## cnbrown (May 31, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Jefnes3)*

Hey! Thats my dub in the back! That 280whp is uncorrect, not real numbers fellas. He put that down by removing his air filter.


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_Nice numbers...
Gavster, man you're spoiled.... you have no experience as to how BAD
a vr6T CAN run....







Its doesn't buck, it doesn't blacken your rear bumper,
get mid 20's mpg mileage (light footed of course







) and you can run part 
throttle at ANY boost at ANY rpm and you made what, 280whp...
sounds ok to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








The idle 'issue' you speak of 'could' be caused by your BOV venting
overboard, make sure its CLOSED at idle. Absolutely closed.
Or re-route it properly. Setting the valve 'hard' enough to stay closed at idle
means it takes a pretty high vacuum to open it and it isn't 
always open while the throttle is shut. (have I convinced you to re-route
it yet?







I can go on...)
I Think the real issue is the large MAF housing, at idle and High altitude
(your in Alb. NM right?) the MAF signal is 'below the radar'. This is an issue
that I may be able to figure out once I dissasemble the 'code'.
(fairly big task even for computer/software guys and my background
is Mechanical engineering, anybody good with assembly wanna lend a hand?)
Misfire stuff: I have experience this myself, it only happens above ~6500
at WOT. The rev limit is 6900.
This is the 'end' of the software, injectors are done, everything
is maxed out. I found by gapping the plugs to ~0.020"-0.022" and going to
2 steps colder than stock cleared it up for me...
I reccommend NGK BKR 7E plugs. 
And these plugs work fine down to ~5F for me. (42# software testing)
.031" gap is larger than stock spec. (0.028" is spec.)
Large gap plus heavy mix = no fire.
Just some suggestions....
Happy motoring,
Jeffrey Atwood

_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:32 PM 1-18-2004_

Jeff, my misfires happen right around 5k...when i post my dyno tomorrow, you can see the power dip down for a bit then recover...i need to get it sorted out...ill try those plugs and gap you recommended however...we shall see! Oh tyler...dont be hatin'! lol. Once i get a better filter im sure it will put that down, its too small id imagine...


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## 50CENT (Sep 15, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Jefnes3)*

The idle issue could also be cause by the ECU. Depending on what box he has some 97 VR take a long time to throttle adapt and will idle low after the clutch is depressed.
Also a number 7 plug is way too cold for 10psi he will lose hp. We run 1 degree colder plugs up to 18psi for years now with no probs. when we run lower boost you can use stock 5 plugs up to 8-9psi safely.
Im not flaming just speaking from experience and giving my .02
I bet that his prob is a very simple one 
Brian


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## D Wiz (Jun 20, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (50CENT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *50CENT* »_The idle issue could also be cause by the ECU. Depending on what box he has some 97 VR take a long time to throttle adapt and will idle low after the clutch is depressed.
Also a number 7 plug is way too cold for 10psi he will lose hp. We run 1 degree colder plugs up to 18psi for years now with no probs. when we run lower boost you can use stock 5 plugs up to 8-9psi safely.
Im not flaming just speaking from experience and giving my .02
I bet that his prob is a very simple one 
Brian


**** happends ot me, i have sds, in the AM in neutral, car starts up, but sometimes with clutch out, idle gos down a bit


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## Holy Piston (Oct 24, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (D Wiz)*

I agree with the plug gap,bring those suckers down a bit and try different plugs.........


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gavster* »_
Jeff, my misfires happen right around 5k...when i post my dyno tomorrow, you can see the power dip down for a bit then recover...i need to get it sorted out...ill try those plugs and gap you recommended however...we shall see! Oh tyler...dont be hatin'! lol. Once i get a better filter im sure it will put that down, its too small id imagine...


5k RPM.... I doubt its the 'tune'. That should be fairly close to peak torque
with the turbo. Do you have any WOT full power VAG-COM logs?
If there is a problem, I'll at least know where to look. Drop me an email
to get you sorted.

Be careful running no filter, the MAF should have a flow straightener and the
filter 'kinda' does that for us now.... I was looking into some aluminum
honeycomb, but the cost/complication of adding it didn't make sense.
(all though, I bet it would help the idle a bit)
Jeffrey Atwood


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_

Be careful running no filter, the MAF should have a flow straightener and the
filter 'kinda' does that for us now.... I was looking into some aluminum
honeycomb, but the cost/complication of adding it didn't make sense.
(all though, I bet it would help the idle a bit)
Jeffrey Atwood


I dont run filterless on the street, my mechanic said he thought the filter was pretty restrictive, so we took it off for one pull and i gained 12 whp! Jeff, I will see if I can find a Vag Com tool and get some logs...


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## AnotherA2VR6 (Jun 20, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_anybody good with assembly wanna lend a hand?

I wouldn't mind helping out with the code disassembly. I've been working on the code for a 94 OBDI vr6 for the past few weeks and I'm wondering how different an OBDII would be. I would assume the 97 OBDII would use the same siemens 80C537 processor so I could use the existing tools I've got.
Let me know if I could help you out.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (AnotherA2VR6)*

Check your email.... 
and obd2 does NOT use that siemens procesor, an Intel 196.
Jeffrey Atwood


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## RedDevil (Sep 21, 2001)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Jefnes3)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vrturbojake (Sep 23, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (RedDevil)*

Very nice numbers. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## SkeeterVR6 (Mar 12, 2000)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (VW Jetta VRSEXXX)*

Congrats Gavster! I've had mine done about the same amount of time with the C2 setup..Can't wait to get on the dyno and see what she does http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## redveedubb (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (SkeeterVR6)*

is it unsafe to run a turbo setup w/o an intercooler ? i mean could it lead to problems ?


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (redveedubb)*

I suppose running without an intercooler at high boost levels would be very dangerous, but I am still safe. Also, the ambient air temperature this time of year helps out a lot. I will be intercooled before it gets warm so im not too nervous. Update on the misfires: I got some NGK BKR7E's gapped to .024 in there, and the CEL still goes off and flashes at me when im doing a WOT pull in 3rd but its doesnt feel nearly as bad. I might try replacing my wires next with the Autotech 10.4mm's. Im trying to get a hold of a Vag-com tool so i can maybe better tell the problems..


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## veedub11 (Mar 10, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

I got those wires, good stuff.


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## VRQUICK (Sep 20, 2000)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (veedub11)*

Do you have a dyno sheet you could post?


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## tropicorange20v (Jul 28, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (VRQUICK)*

I'd like to see the A/F graph along with that dyno.


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (tropicorange20v)*

Im getting that dyno here this afternoon so ill have it for you guys tonight!


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## peppie cola (Mar 30, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gavster* »_










Question for the experts.
It's that a bad place to put the air-intake? Seems to me like it would be sucking hot air, and isn't in the airstream like it would with the original airbox.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (peppie cola)*

Hey Gavster....how is the car running???


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## SleepyTT (Jul 15, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Gavster)*

Looking nice Gavster. I hope you like it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Hope you put out some 1/4 times this summer http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (Sleepy007)*

Hey guys...yes it still does the misfire but its not as bad feeling since I got the autotech 10.4mm wires. I really think I just need an intercooler because I think the "misfire" codes is really just small amounts of detonation. I went out to the track the other day and ran nearly pure 103 octane and only read codes in 1 run out of 9. Just for anyone curious, I ran a 14.8 @ 101.5mph....LOL! I have huge traction issues but my peloquin is sittin right on top of my dresser as we speak so hopefully I can get that installed and then see what happens (also factor in that Im at 5500 feet so my 1/4 times are slower than u low elev. people) I am very pleased all in all though. Intercooler comes soon as well as the LSD and clutch. BTW, as far as the clutch goes, should I go with the spec stage 2 or use my stock pp and go with just a copper disk? LMK! But yeah....all in all me =


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## KOOTER (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (yokomomma)*

I fought the misfire at about 10lbs.I found that 1.8 16v plugs were the cure.They seem to be fine up to about 15psi unless your pig ass rich.


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## bretter (Sep 6, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (KOOTER)*

i am having misfire problems as well.
what are all the possible causes of a misfire?
coilpack
fouled plugs
bad wires
?????????


_Modified by bretter at 1:33 AM 2-17-2004_


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## Gavster (Jan 8, 2002)

*Re: My C2 VR6-T, WOW! (bretter)*

I think its from not running an intercooler in my case! The misfires felt really bad at first, then i started running NGK BKR7E's gapped to .024 and the 10.4mm autotech wires...it still misfires, but you cant really tell, the only way i really notice is by the flashing CEL...sometimes is feels like its taking a performance hit, but it isnt nearly as bad as before i got those plugs and wires. I think I may try and switch my coilpack and see if that helps any.


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