# HP gains on the JH engine?



## VWDREW (Oct 22, 2001)

Just an odd question, I have a 1989 Cabriolet that has the 1.8L JH w/hydraulic head, Digi fuel and is mated to a 010 3sp auto trans. Now from what I have found the engine when new puts out roughly 90HP and I was just wondering if its possible to get say 180HP out of this engine if built right and what would have to be done to get it to put out that kind of # if at all possible. Mind you this would be all motor power no boost or any other power add and using the stock fuel injection. If its not possible what would a reasonable gain be for this engine.

Thanks.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

With good head work, a built block, a big cam with a good header and exhaust,, keeping the stock fuel rail and going MS (lose the digi fast), maybe 120-130hp at the crank. Possibly more if things are done well. And ditch the auto trans, it just sucks power into the void.

I say lose the digi as it will be much easier to tune and get the most out of it, than having to buy chip tunes, that is IF they are still available.


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

Sure its possible for a VW 8 valve to make 190HP at the crank. Here is a 1.6 that makes that much power.
Granted this is NOT a street motor. As mentioned already 180 HP as a street motor isn't really too practical.

http://www.scientificrabbit.com/node/5

Small gains can be had as bolt-ons http://www.scientificrabbit.com/node/2


Known Good tested combinations - 
Motor details: 147 HP at crank

95 ABA shortblock. Eurospec 8v solid lifter head, shaved .030" for ~10.6:1 compression, depending on who you talk to. Schrick 280 cam, "euro" cis, matchported-to-head intake manifold with an A2 throttle body, knock sensor ignition out of an 86 GTI, TT adj cam gear(which is *key* to this motor and that torque figure-more on that in a minute). Brospeed header(fits the tallblock just fine) breathing into a 2.25" TT exhaust with Borla muffler. Lots more to the car but that's what makes the power.

Now, about that TT adj cam gear.....the 280 cam wants to rev into the 7000rpm range. It will do so happily and feels pretty good. The butt dyno would be happy. However, track times were showing that car was infact slower than last year when I was running a Schrick 274. I wanted a little more, and was getting a little less. I realized that the stock intake manifold, stock valve sizes, etc were not going to allow a high compression 2 liter to breathe as far into the rpm range as the cam wanted. So I started advancing the cam timing, trying to move the power range of the cam into an rpm range that the motor would be happy with. I had to make peak power before the breathing restrictions came into play. The more I advanced it, the faster I went at the track. I settled on 4 deg of advance after a few nights of test n tune, and this is how I ran it at the dyno today. Even with the big cam, this motor makes rather generous mid range torque. In fact, the peak torque #s were around 4500-5000. It's not even a torque curve, more like a flat line. It's making these torque #s from around 3000rpms. Peak hp was slightly higher at 6200rpm range. 



160WHP stock 2.0ABA bottom end with Sold lifter counter flow eurospec head, and ITBS
http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?1590229-Dyno-results-on-2L-8v-on-ITBs...

Thanks guys. I can say that it's vindication for being stubborn and true to my 8v cause. Of course other motors would make more hp with the same amount of developement, but stepping back and looking at it, those 5000hp V8s that run 300+ mph in the quarter are not running anymore valves per cylinder. And to keep it more reasonable, those 500hp street driven 'vettes and Mustangs aren't using any more valves either. New ones are, but there's 30 years of them that don't....

Here's the engine specs.....first and foremost, I want to point out that this is a stock ABA bottom end. No pistons, no overbore, no ARP, just a low mileage junkyard bottom end. It's a great foundation.

Of course, that's about it for stock parts. Capping that stock ABA bottom end is a Eurospec head that I bought used and had rebuilt with a 5 angle valve job, stock valve sizes, and had it skimmed .030" for a bit more compression.Depending on which starting point you use, it's ~10.5-10.75. Never cc'd it. Stock valve sizes. I match ported a DCOE manifold to the head(ugh, 10 hrs into the that simple casting....), added the ITBs and the Delta cam. Interestingly, I don't know the actual specs on the cam. So it goes with borrowed and used parts It's rumored to offer 285deg of duration at .050. Compared to the TT306, which offers 265 deg duration at .050, it's big. Dunno how big, exactly.

It breathes through a TT race heade with 1 5/8" primaries into a TT2.25" exhausts with a Borla. No resonators, cat, etc. The MegaSquirt does it's deal through a set of Ford red top #30 inj, which are just about maxed when it comes to duty cycle. My datalogs(nice feature on a cheapo programmable efi, no?). My ignition is a factory knock sensing ignition from an 85 8v GTI running 12deg advance at idle. TT cam gear is set at +4 as this is where the dyno says it makes the most tq vs hp. I still drive this to work on occasion, so it's gotta have some street manners. You can retard for higher hp #s, but the tq falls off too fast to be worth it. What else.......close ratio gearbox, a 2H, with a Quaiffe. H&R race springs, cheapy Tokico's. There's better track times with chassis tuning. She's basically un developed in that area.


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## VWDREW (Oct 22, 2001)

Thanks for the information on this, the main reason for the question was due to the fact this VW has the auto trans in it and it will be staying as I want to keep most of the car as stock as possible and the cruise still works in this car. I figure if I can get more HP out of the engine it would make for a better cruiser here in my state having to deal with the mountain passes when on long drives and such.

Again, Thanks.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

You will be amazed at the power that is freed up if you only did a manual tranny swap. Those auto's are horrible, and you should be able to keep the cruise control working (I've had aftermarket ones on previous manual trans cars). I drive my car all over that area, tri-cities, Spokane, Boise and eastern Idaho, and haven't met a single mountain pass I can't go up and over @75mph or better. 

Any bolt-ons you add to add hp will make things better, even with that tranny. Easiest would be a cam, dp or header and exhaust.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

No, it is not possible. Even with what ny_fam mentioned [cuz you ain't going to find those parts]. 

You have an automatic, get real. You really need to lower your expectations. But then again, you are just asking for opinions.

Realistically, I think 120hp is about it [remember, it is a street car, running on street gas, and an automatic that must idle and start well in Yakima].


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

What does Yakima have to do with anything? We want to know... And what parts that ny_fam mentioned that are not available?


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## VWDREW (Oct 22, 2001)

Thanks again guys. I think I am kinda lost on the Yakima thing and how it has anything to do with HP gains, but oh well. I know trying to double the HP is a bit out there but I was just asking, will I try to do it, I don't know the engine is bone stock right now and is still running strong with over 140k on it. I could end up just doing the bolt on stuff and end up being happy with that to swapping out the auto for a 5 speed and going from there I am just looking at the options for this engine and what can be done to it to make it a better engine.

Again thanks.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I can tell you that I have a GX code 1.8 (low CR) that has made 94whp and has returned [email protected] 80mph. From a motor that is stock rated at 85hp at the crank. Essentially bolt-ons; cam, header, exhaust and MS. And a 5spd tranny with a .71 fifth gear, which [email protected]


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

Eurospec head, do they make those any more [The old school custom casted SOLID lifter head]? Could you get one? Maybe, but it would be very difficult [about as hard as a good 020 6 speed conversion kit].

As for the Yakima thing, isn't that where you live? As mentioned, you have to drive your car on the street, run pump gas, idle, and just be streetable, Yakima streets are no worst than the ones in Kent, WA.

I know this is your car and are just asking questions [which is good], but what you are asking is a whole boat load of work. Especially if you want to convert your car to a manual. Installing the normal bolt on parts is only going to give you a few HP [10-20] and with an automatic, it might feel like 5hp. Might be worth looking for something that fits what you want then customize that.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

I haven't done one, but an auto to manual conversion should be fairly straight forward and can easily be accomplished with hand tools.

I have seen Eurospec heads in the classifieds, so they are out there, but even a properly worked over stock head will make decent power. The 180hp number the OP posted was your typical noob mistake.


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