# * question for techs: intake manifold runner control *



## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

I took my Jetta to the dealership several months ago for a check engine light. Intermittent misfires and a code for intermittent intake manifold runner control. The dealership replaced a bad coilpack but didn't do anything with the other manifold runner control issue. They cleared the codes and documented the issue.
Last week, another check engine light. Flap/manifold runner control issue again. The tech tried replacing it, but the replacement was bad too. Now, they have replaced it again and took it for a test drive. I just got a call from the dealership and the code keeps coming back. Sooo...here I am in their loaner car wondering what the hell is up with this.
Has anyone here come upon this issue before? Any specific fix? Could it just be a bad ecu?
Assistance appreciated. Thanks.
ps- while in the shop this time, they did the ecu reflash as well for the 030/oy thing


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## bgriggs (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (pturner67)*

I have heard of several cases where the motor for the intake runner flap has gone bad. My car pops this code up every now and then..
I should probably have it looked at before warranty is up


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (bgriggs)*

what if the new part still causes the code?? anyone (including techs) seen this before?


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## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (pturner67)*

The Bently manual, suggest the the flap sensor goes bad, not the flaps or motor. I got the code before but I had been working on my car and had accidentally popped the actuator arm off. It just snaps on IIRC.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (FasterDaddy)*

yeah, they supposedly replaced the intake motor/flap, the sensor,...the whole thing...and they replaced the connector too....still getting the code/cel...put another post on here...I got the software update (030/oy thing) at the same time...seems someone else got a code after that software update...odd issue


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (pturner67)*

Its a pretty basic setup, I have only seen the code twice, one was sporadic on a car at the dealer so we cold not proceed since they made no complaint of an MIL. The other was a customer at the shop and I was just doing a random scan after doing some other work, I told him to just take it to his dealer since it was under warranty, his code was not sporadic.
We have not changed any at the dealer where I work so I don't recall every bit of the system. But I find it highly unlikey any tech is gona replace the actual flaps first since that requires removing the intake manifold.. which in this case means messing with a whole lot of fueling stuff. I have an intake manifold I bought to play with and if you can move that rod up and down then chances are its all working 100%. I am not even sure ifyou can buy the flap and intake manifold seperate.
From what I Can tell the motor and the sensor are just one piece. Its a very simple circuit and all it probably does it determine which position the motor is in. If its reoccuring and they changed that its just time to check the wiring and possibly a bad ECM.


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## bgriggs (Jul 28, 2006)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (PD Performance)*

Would you be able to post pictures of the intake manifold? I'm curious what these flaps look like in the fully extended position.
Thanks


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## VWAUDITEK (Dec 26, 2006)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (bgriggs)*

I have seen this code before,on 2 Mk5 cars........IIRC there is a "basic setting" for this??


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## stirfriedx9 (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (VWAUDITEK)*

i work at the dealer. actually there is an updated intake manifold flap motor that is marked with a blue dot on the housing. this comes straight from vw. i don't know if they already installed that one. also of note, the throttle body and intake flap motor need to be adapted back to their basic settings. im not saying they didn't already do this, but this is what ive experienced so far. hope this helps. by the way, the blue dot is located on the black plasctic side of the motor, and is painted over the silver that can be found in the middle of it. you'l probably never be able to see it all the way down where it is located on the manifold, but im just saying is all. oh by the way, the basic setting of the flap motor can be obtained using guided functions in the 5052 vw scan tool. good luck to ya. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by stirfriedx9 at 3:03 AM 3-27-2007_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (stirfriedx9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stirfriedx9* »_i work at the dealer. actually there is an updated intake manifold flap motor that is marked with a blue dot on the housing. this comes straight from vw. i don't know if they already installed that one. also of note, the throttle body and intake flap motor need to be adapted back to their basic settings. im not saying they didn't already do this, but this is what ive experienced so far. hope this helps. by the way, the blue dot is located on the black plasctic side of the motor, and is painted over the silver that can be found in the middle of it. you'l probably never be able to see it all the way down where it is located on the manifold, but im just saying is all. oh by the way, the basic setting of the flap motor can be obtained using guided functions in the 5052 vw scan tool. good luck to ya. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by stirfriedx9 at 3:03 AM 3-27-2007_

good catch on this one...they did install the newer motor with the blue dot and they are trying to do the adaptation back to basic settings...it won't adapt...it keeps giving them a hard fault...here's a question: would the newest ecu flash update have a bug in it that won't allow it to adapt? the reason I ask is because there's another thread here that has issues after the ecu flash and it turned out to be the manifold issue there...it almost seems the 030/oy ecu flash update might have some incompatibilities


_Modified by pturner67 at 7:36 AM 3-27-2007_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (PD Performance)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PD Performance* »_Its a pretty basic setup, I have only seen the code twice, one was sporadic on a car at the dealer so we cold not proceed since they made no complaint of an MIL. The other was a customer at the shop and I was just doing a random scan after doing some other work, I told him to just take it to his dealer since it was under warranty, his code was not sporadic.
We have not changed any at the dealer where I work so I don't recall every bit of the system. But I find it highly unlikey any tech is gona replace the actual flaps first since that requires removing the intake manifold.. which in this case means messing with a whole lot of fueling stuff. I have an intake manifold I bought to play with and if you can move that rod up and down then chances are its all working 100%. I am not even sure ifyou can buy the flap and intake manifold seperate.
From what I Can tell the motor and the sensor are just one piece. Its a very simple circuit and all it probably does it determine which position the motor is in. If its reoccuring and they changed that its just time to check the wiring and possibly a bad ECM.

well, I told them to just give me a new car...lol








they have faxed all the paperwork to VWoA to see what to do next...my guess is that they will end up putting in a new ecm/ecu since they replaced the wiring/connector and motor


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## observer (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (pturner67)*

See: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...d=739
Had a similar problem but luckily did not havea hard code just a serious drop in power







Here I show how to do the basic settings in VAG.
Hope it helps!


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## ZWStewart (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (pturner67)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pturner67* »_
well, I told them to just give me a new car...lol








they have faxed all the paperwork to VWoA to see what to do next...my guess is that they will end up putting in a new ecm/ecu since they replaced the wiring/connector and motor


Is there a test, or adaptation, or something that can be done with a VAG-Com?


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## observer (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (FasterDaddy)*

Basic settings -> block 142
Similar to 060 throttle body adaption


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## stirfriedx9 (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (observer)*

try doing a capacitive discharge. disconnect the battery and then place a wire between the two cables on the car that attach to the battery terminals. allow me to repeat, do not put a cable across the battery terminals. just place a cable across the car's positive and negative battery connections (with the battery out of the car). this should reset things. i had to do this one time after i replaced the flapper motor. i had the same problem with the motor not adapting. maybe this will work for you too.


_Modified by stirfriedx9 at 5:39 PM 3-27-2007_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (stirfriedx9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stirfriedx9* »_try doing a capacitive discharge. disconnect the battery and then place a wire between the two cables on the car that attach to the battery terminals. allow me to repeat, do not put a cable across the battery terminals. just place a cable across the car's positive and negative battery connections (with the battery out of the car). this should reset things. i had to do this one time after i replaced the flapper motor. i had the same problem with the motor not adapting. maybe this will work for you too.
_Modified by stirfriedx9 at 5:39 PM 3-27-2007_

interesting...thank you...just left the service guy a message...I have no clue about what you just said...but hopefully the dealership will...thanks again for your suggestion


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## PD Performance (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (stirfriedx9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stirfriedx9* »_try doing a capacitive discharge. disconnect the battery and then place a wire between the two cables on the car that attach to the battery terminals. allow me to repeat, do not put a cable across the battery terminals. just place a cable across the car's positive and negative battery connections (with the battery out of the car). this should reset things. i had to do this one time after i replaced the flapper motor. i had the same problem with the motor not adapting. maybe this will work for you too.


Thats a good call. We used to have to leave the ECM disconnected on older 2L VWs to get them to set the TB adapation after cleaing them. We would just leave the battery hooked up but the plug off them ECM for 15-20 minutes and that would usually be enough to wipe it out. On the new cars though doing what you said would be much easier since getting to the ECM is harder and the radio code and such is stored.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (stirfriedx9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stirfriedx9* »_try doing a capacitive discharge. disconnect the battery and then place a wire between the two cables on the car that attach to the battery terminals. allow me to repeat, do not put a cable across the battery terminals. just place a cable across the car's positive and negative battery connections (with the battery out of the car). this should reset things. i had to do this one time after i replaced the flapper motor. i had the same problem with the motor not adapting. maybe this will work for you too.

_Modified by stirfriedx9 at 5:39 PM 3-27-2007_

Went by the dealership this morning on my way to work...they said it's the flapper motor not adapting, not the car's computer...so weird...they said VWoA is sending them yet another flapper motor with the blue dot thing...once installed, this will be the 3rd blue dot flapper motor they have tried to install and had it be bad from the factory...seem odd?
by the way, my car has now been with the dealership for 2 weeks...granted, I am driving their 2.0T Passat with Sirius Sat radio and putting miles on their car...but this delay is getting ridiculous


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## stirfriedx9 (Apr 23, 2005)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (pturner67)*

it is not the motor vs. the computer....the motor gets a signal from the ecm on when to activate and by how much, so they should try it anyway. they'll probably replace your ecm, and then it will adapt, but only because they disconnected the ecm for a while. it is very similar to what has been written above about the old cars. and since the capacitive discharge is so easy, why can't they just try it and see, even if i am wrong, or perhaps crazy. amwahahahaaa. i don't know...i thought it was worth a shot. anyway, good luck to you my friend. i hope all goes well.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (stirfriedx9)*


_Quote, originally posted by *stirfriedx9* »_it is not the motor vs. the computer....the motor gets a signal from the ecm on when to activate and by how much, so they should try it anyway. they'll probably replace your ecm, and then it will adapt, but only because they disconnected the ecm for a while. it is very similar to what has been written above about the old cars. and since the capacitive discharge is so easy, why can't they just try it and see, even if i am wrong, or perhaps crazy. amwahahahaaa. i don't know...i thought it was worth a shot. anyway, good luck to you my friend. i hope all goes well.

hey, thanks...they did try the capacitive discharge as well but it didn't work...he said they call it voodoo or something like that at their dealership


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## rypekorn (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (pturner67)*

Thanks for the info. My GLI has been misfiring for about 2 months and I keep coming back to the dealer for the next round of troubleshooting. Coil packs have been replaced but the issue still persists


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## observer (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re: * question for techs: intake manifold runner control * (rypekorn)*

Mine is now going in on the 18th of April.......they are not aware of any problems with the runner flap







They are apparently going to do some more tests!
Hold thumbs! Probably going to have to wait another couple of weeks for parts again


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## Tom16v (Apr 7, 2003)

The dealer should take a look at the flaps themselves, I've seen the flaps go bad and because they are in the incorrect range of motion (move too far in one direction or the other) the fault gets set as you describe. The intake manifold had to be replaced but it fixed the problem immediately. From the sound of it they are doing all the same things we tried before someone discovered the flap problem. Best of luck, hope you get your car back soon.


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## observer (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re: (Tom16v)*

Yes, it's the first time they've ever seen something like this and they will not listen to what I have to say


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## plutoR (Aug 24, 2006)

*Re: (observer)*

Wassup Boet , 
Bulloks i say , I skeem these okes are just too lasy to rip off the intake manifold , flaps and motor to check . Quite a job ...


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## observer (Mar 24, 2004)

*Re: (plutoR)*

All codes gone and it is adapting perfectly...#@^#&%$*%^. Car was still throwing codes yesterday and I need to take it in tomorrow.....now no codes.
I hate this car.


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (observer)*

They went through 3 updated (blue dot) flap motors before the problem disappeared on mine...I'd be willing to bet there is a TSB or there will be a TSB/recall for this issue soon


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## BoBa524 (Apr 18, 2007)

*Re: (pturner67)*

i have done 2 of the MIRC motors with no comebacks. both vehicles came in with runner control difference faults - something like that. 


_Modified by BoBa524 at 5:34 PM 4-18-2007_


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (BoBa524)*

good to hear...could just be that the dealership I went to sucks buttocks


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## rukkus (Oct 6, 2006)

*Re: (pturner67)*

any further updates on this? my 2007 gti is throwing intake manifold runner control errors now. taking it in tomorrow.


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## BIGNICKSGTIS420 (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (rukkus)*

What is involved in changing it?


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## pturner67 (Dec 27, 2002)

*Re: (BIGNICKSGTIS420)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rukkus* »_any further updates on this? my 2007 gti is throwing intake manifold runner control errors now. taking it in tomorrow.


_Quote, originally posted by *BIGNICKSGTIS420* »_What is involved in changing it?

dunno what the process is...just know there is an updated motor...I think blue dot version or something like that...they install the new one and let the computer and new motor adapt...just pray they have a newer version motor in stock that isn't defective from the factory...they went through several on mine before they got one that worked


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