# mk3 FSI swap question



## Fueledpassion109 (Jan 24, 2007)

yes i have searched and got 50% of an answer. 
I been playing with the idea of dropping a 2.0t FSI motor in to my MK3. now im not worried about fabricating anything or even building a custom wiring harness.
BUT I keep hearing and reading about the immobilizer causing lots of problems. if i where to do this project i would have a standalone AEM system or maybe o34 engine management. Would i need to worry about the IMMO BS? I honestly dont think i would need to deal with any of that crap right?


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## The Kilted Yaksman (Oct 31, 2000)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (Fueledpassion109)*

I would think you'd have a hard time making the FSI work without all of the factory electronics.


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## stealthmk1 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (The Kilted Yaksman)*

from what I've heard, there is no stand alone system available that can power the FSI fuel system.


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## Fueledpassion109 (Jan 24, 2007)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (stealthmk1)*

i could see that with mega squirt, but AEM? the most the car will see is 14 volts anywhere.... well i would ask what FSI really is, but ill search for it...


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (Fueledpassion109)*

you would need mk5 donor car


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (dubbinmk2)*

this thread is hilarious!
all of the factory stuff is needed no standalone can do it yet
yes the immobilizer will be a pain but you can overcome it
Dont forget the custom motor mounts while ur in there


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## Fueledpassion109 (Jan 24, 2007)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (kevinmacd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevinmacd* »_this thread is hilarious!
all of the factory stuff is needed no standalone can do it yet
yes the immobilizer will be a pain but you can overcome it
Dont forget the custom motor mounts while ur in there


This is what i dont understand, why cant standalone run this "FSI". 
I cant even find an answer to what FSI is or does, there is not technical documentations about it or none that i have found yet. 
I cant seem to find the hilarious part of trying to ask a question about running 2.0T FSI motor on a standalone system.
maybe you could enlighten me as to why a standalone ECU cant run this FSI motor....


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (Fueledpassion109)*

well FSI is basically direct injection...im sure you can find a lot on that topic
for starters this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...ction
as far as stand alone there simply isnt one that can run FSI so why stress about it?
its a completely different system and pretty new so thres is nothing out for it yet as far as SEM goes but im sure its coming
although i havent done the swap yet im surre some of the software tuners can delete IMM for you so i wouldnt worry too much about it. 
You are deffinitelly best off with a donnor car, but i still dont think you really need all the electronics from a donnor especially once you remove the immo....


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (jettaboy_gtx)*

FSI is basically a gas diesel hybrid
there is a high pressure pump run by the cam shaft that injects
gas at 14000 PSI directly into the combustion chamber. 
The advantages of this are higher compression with little to no detonation under boost, increased fuel economy and lower emissions.
the reason any SEM today will not work is the fact that there is no standard injector to control. the Injectors are mechanical and controlled by the pump.
the intake tract is only air not fuel and air like a traditional efi.
there are chip tuners that can remove the IMMO for you. Its around 1000 to have it done and the only one proven to work is unitronic. You still need almost all the sensors for the ECU to run right and as stated a MK5 donor car would definetely be your best bet.
Oh and BTW im not just talking out my ass like alot of people on here.
I built this last year and it runs great.


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## jettaboy_gtx (Apr 12, 2003)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (kevinmacd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevinmacd* »_FSI is basically a gas diesel hybrid
there is a high pressure pump run by the cam shaft that injects
gas at 14000 PSI directly into the combustion chamber. 
The advantages of this are higher compression with little to no detonation under boost, increased fuel economy and lower emissions.
the reason any SEM today will not work is the fact that there is no standard injector to control. the Injectors are mechanical and controlled by the pump.
the intake tract is only air not fuel and air like a traditional efi.
there are chip tuners that can remove the IMMO for you. Its around 1000 to have it done and the only one proven to work is unitronic. You still need almost all the sensors for the ECU to run right and as stated a MK5 donor car would definetely be your best bet.
Oh and BTW im not just talking out my ass like alot of people on here.
I built this last year and it runs great.

















that looks great man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
yea thats what i mean once you remove IMMO you'd only need the neccesary stuff for the engine/ECU to run properly. A lot of ppl seem to think you need all the car electronics to make it work.


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## Fueledpassion109 (Jan 24, 2007)

finally, thank you very much.. both of you!
im going to look at my passat and see what i can do with it... 
as you mentioned you cant put a stand alone sysem on the FSI yet... yet being the key word. 
Having a hardware engineer and hardware programmer in the family business give me quite an advantage. 

truth be told I want to go with a 2.1(maybe 2.2) 20V turbo (high compression motor w/ around 0.7 - 0.75 bar turbo)


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

*Re: (Fueledpassion109)*

you will need $10k cash from start to finish

get started on it....


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## kevinmacd (Sep 4, 2003)

*Re: (dubbinmk2)*

wait whats the 10k for? a whole fsi swap?


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## fatdubs fatman (Mar 20, 2002)

that my boy, Kevin knows his ****.


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## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

If you want a 2.0T engine, but don't want the complicated FSI system... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4712122


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

*FV-QR*

Are you saying you can run the FSI engine on non-FSI management?







If the hardware bolts up then I guess you could run it non-FSI, but then whats the big deal about the new fuel pump?

_Quote, originally posted by *Fueledpassion109* »_
as you mentioned you cant put a stand alone sysem on the FSI yet... yet being the key word. 
Having a hardware engineer and hardware programmer in the family business give me quite an advantage. 


There is a company called Storm Developments in the UK who have made a standalone to run FSI for the R32 motor, however they won't sell you one, or give you any detail on it. They'll only do it as a conversion I think.
Iirc the FSI injectors take something like 90V to fire, and the ECU also has to be able to the fuel pressure via PWM. I don't think it would be too hard to build a 90V injector driver, and most standalones have PWM outputs anyway. Its getting it all to run together properly that would be the really hard part, because if FSI injection event timing is anything like as crucial as diesel is you'd have to have an very fast ECU to handle it.


_Modified by MikkiJayne at 7:23 AM 3-14-2010_


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## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (MikkiJayne)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MikkiJayne* »_Are you saying you can run the FSI engine on non-FSI management?







If the hardware bolts up then I guess you could run it non-FSI, but then whats the big deal about the new fuel pump?


Yes, you need to fabricate a new intake manifold to accept standard EFI injectors to make it work.
The new HPFP is for sale as well if the new owner wanted to continue to run the FSI system and did not want to perform the conversion. Otherwise it would not be needed and could be removed for a block-off plate.


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## Fueledpassion109 (Jan 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (MikkiJayne)*

since my last post i have done alot of reading and research, my friend and team owner in Hungary EU, has what he is calling a excellent running fsi motor that is being prepared to run in the ETCC. Their car is in the the prototype stages, but should be ready for the next season (if there are no drastic rule changes).
Anyway what I was just told over skype is that the timing was a &%(@#. just like you mentioned in your post. They ended up with a German engine management company that they work closely with. the company (that of course i cant remember the name of now) was able to replace less then 25% of the board to get it to support the FSI. they replaced the .60 sample rate processing system with a Marvell Processor that they claim will have gigahertz capable power and sample around .1-.2. which is damn fast and very identical to the Motec ECU. they also boosted the data logging rate and memory size (64MB). 
total cost... €1400 ECU.... €250 few upgrades... 300€ software re-tune... 
(no harness, no daughter board, no display) 
unfortunately they could not give me more info at this time, they will give me the technical documentations next month, when we are in the same country. 
at the end he throw out that the 1.8 is much more tuner friendly. thus me doing a 2020 but morel ike a 2.1 l ABA 20V


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## 155VERT83 (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: mk3 FSI swap question (kevinmacd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kevinmacd* »_FSI is basically a gas diesel hybrid
Oh and BTW im not just talking out my ass like alot of people on here.
I built this last year and it runs great.

















*Awesome quote (and car)!* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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