# Meet my red-headed stepchild!



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Well hello everybody!

Guess where I just came from?

...

Give up?

OK, I'll tell you: I just got back from Ohio with my newest project! Craig (shrttracker) was gracious enough to squander his day and come trailer it with me.

Apparently it's a Scirocco. It was made in 1986. I know! I was surprised too! I mean, who knew VW made Sciroccos after 1981 !? 

I got it running after tinkering with it for a bit, and actually, it runs like a top! It has no title, but my boys kept hounding me until finally I could refuse no longer (actually they only asked once). We started tearing around our subdivision in it. I'm usually pretty helpful around the 'hood so no complaints resulted, but I did push the envelope, what with no plates and all...










The car has a funny looking engine I've never seen before. Apparently it's quite a bit stonger than the ones I'm used to, because the car easily left numerous black decorative stripes on my street, along with a pleasing, albeit acrid smell that hung in the air in front of my house for a few minutes. Visibility was also somewhat reduced by the white haze produced during the procedure, and the right front tire is now quite smooth and even has bits of string hanging out of it. I don't think that's normal.










There's a gauge on the dash that moves in a clockwise fashion whenever I push on the gas. I tried my best to keep the needle all the way in the red, but such noise! Thinking something might be wrong, I did some research and discovered it's a so-called "tachometer", and that the red part was in fact not the objective. But it was too late: by then the car had already decided to reward me with a moderate drip from the radiator.










I understand whenever a guy saves one of these cars from the crusher, the car marks the driveway as a gesture of gratitude? I'm told they do this a lot?  When I think about it, that just doesn't seem right to me...

By the way, the car came with a large black steering wheel, but I just HAD to have the little pink one. I paid quite a bit extra to get it, but I know value when I see it .










The car comes with some special features I'm sure you all will appreciate. For example, the emergency brake is quite reliable, although you do have to jump out of the car to apply it. You'll also note the exhaust system, which was carefully crafted from multiple sources, some of them automotive. Through meticulous and repeated applications of salt, the car is now much more lightweight, although I have a new gas MIG welder, so in spite of the performance advantage, I think I will reverse this modification.










Finally, the front springs are cut and the car comes with the coveted "swaybar delete" option, so the handling has a pleasing "Cadillac" feel to it, something I prize in all my vehicles.

Anyhoo, I thought you'd all like to meet this newest member of our happy, although sometimes dysfunctional Volkswagen family.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

Edit: to remove typos created by my Ipad without my consent .


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## Rocco_julie (Jul 12, 2006)

Congrats! Now change that timing belt!


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## 868valver (Nov 3, 2009)

Yes! That is one lucky 16v, and I can tell it already loves you too.:laugh:opcorn:


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

what?!?! 

echassin has a mk2?

a 16v?

and it's RUSTY?? 

WTF!? my world is falling apart! :laugh:


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

That rusty wiper arm...it offends the eyes! You know that this thing will end up disassembled and in Eric's basement. At least what he dismembers he puts back together shinier and better.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Eric, have you thought about ditching that white coat and becoming a writer? 

Seriously, great thread so far. You had me laughing from the start. I'm thoroughly looking forward to your modification reversal progress.

Carry on. And watch out for the iPad double cross. :sly:


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

TheTimob said:


> what?!?!
> 
> echassin has a mk2?
> 
> ...


and he's tearing up the neighbourhood and hooning around leaving black marks on the road? 

Yeah, it's official....Belsebub just started wearing long Johns.....


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Start cleaning!!!!


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

Any time some one adopts a scirocco is a good thing.
A saved from crusher is a awesome thing.








its just marking its territory.
nice find great save,I am having a hard time with stripping the buzz bomb,they
Grow on you like your favorite pet.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> Start cleaning!!!!


Yessiree :thumbup:

In fact, I've already started and I'm pleased to report that I received a 30 cent refund on my purchase price, in the form of three dimes, and as we all know, it's the little victories that count.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

TheTimob said:


> what?!?!
> 
> echassin has a mk2?
> 
> ...


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## Blaines_Rocco (Nov 8, 2011)

By swaybar delete I am guessing you are talking about the front swaybar?

If so mine is missing the front as well, and I don't really understand why the previous owner would do that.


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## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

i have a front swaybar that i'll trade you for that neglected 81 scirocco you have....


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## Chris16vRocco (Apr 30, 2006)

Shrttrackr said:


> i have a front swaybar that i'll trade you for that neglected 81 scirocco you have....


I have one I'll trade you for that even more neglected GTI of yours.


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Holy left turn, bat, err...kneeman!

Wow. A MK2 and an imperfect one at that. You're bringing your average down, whick puts your fleet a little closer to the rest of us in terms of overall condition. Keep it up.


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## LubsDaDubs (Apr 6, 2004)

Blaines_Rocco said:


> By swaybar delete I am guessing you are talking about the front swaybar?
> 
> If so mine is missing the front as well, and I don't really understand why the previous owner would do that.


induced over steer instead of scary understeer


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

LubsDaDubs said:


> induced over steer instead of scary understeer


From what the rest of the car looks like, it seems more like "it was a pain to put it back, so I threw it away", not "I'm fine tuning the balance of the car" 

Today I started stripping the shell, made quite a mess in the garage but had time to tuck it all away in the basement, nice and neat:










I got most of the interior out and spent quite a while labelling all the harnesses, what they do and exactly where they get clipped into place. Also, I got the windshield out intact , as well as the headliner out intact 










More of the same tomorrow. In the meantime, I'm sure one of you recognizes this part, some kind of cover?










A demain :beer:


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Is it clean yet?


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> More of the same tomorrow. In the meantime, I'm sure one of you recognizes this part, some kind of cover?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Rear wiper motor cover.

You sure move fast. :thumbup::beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> Is it clean yet?


No 

Thanks Mark. The car lost the rear wiper at some point. I'm pretty sure I'll leave it off, and therefore shave the sprayer, and revise the harnesses accordingly.

Along those lines, from what I've seen thus far the car could stand to go on a diet and lose a lot of fluff. I'm perfectly content to push locks and crank windows. I'll try to do it right so anything that I delete is gone from the fuse panel and harnesses also, and doesn't leave unsightly holes.


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Here he goes....off and running.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> Along those lines, from what I've seen thus far the car could stand to go on a diet and lose a lot of fluff. I'm perfectly content to push locks and crank windows. I'll try to do it right so anything that I delete is gone from the fuse panel and harnesses also, and doesn't leave unsightly holes.


The power window harness is totally modular. The relay and fuse for it clip to the top of the fuse panel, and plug into the back of the panel with a spade. This way, you can remove the entire window harness, switches, motors, relay and fuse without cutting a single thing.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TheTimob said:


> The power window harness is totally modular. The relay and fuse for it clip to the top of the fuse panel, and plug into the back of the panel with a spade. This way, you can remove the entire window harness, switches, motors, relay and fuse without cutting a single thing.


That's good to know! Hopefully it's the same for the locks, rear sprayer, mirrors, etc...

Today I have to go to work 

I know, WTF?


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

sciroccojim said:


> Here he goes....off an running.


&&



Mtl-Marc said:


> You sure move fast.



If I didn't know better I'd think you were going to widen the wheel arches and paint it Viper Green in a few weeks...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Between work and other stuff, I only had time to clear the rain tray and get the hatch off.

I'm sure those of you who have had a later car knew this already, but for an old hat mk1 type like myself, I was flabbergasted by how much heavy isht VW stuffed into the back of the car, including a vacuum pump to power an air solenoid to unlock the trunk :screwy: I mean jeez, even the wing weighs a ton :facepalm:

I don't want to be lazy about reassembling this car, but there are definitely a number of things I'll be omitting...

Fresh air box out:










Hatch off. Look how high the car sits with 100 pounds off it :what:


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Making it lighter eh? hmmmmm


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> Making it lighter eh? hmmmmm


I've always known that Mk2's were heavier, heck even a late Mk1 is heavier than a '75, but I wonder how much of this car's "extra" weight is easily removed, and how much is intrinsic the the car, i.e. the extra nose sheet metal, the 16V, the big wing, etc... things that will stay.

I'd like to keep the sunroof and put back the A/C and radio, so "some" extra weight is reasonable IMO.

No "real" work today so I hope the get a lot done on the car.

'Later dudes and dudettes:thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> I've always known that Mk2's were heavier, heck even a late Mk1 is heavier than a '75, but I wonder how much of this car's "extra" weight is easily removed, and how much is intrinsic the the car, i.e. the extra nose sheet metal, the 16V, the big wing, etc... things that will stay.


You could always convert to the small wing. Hell, Mtl-Marc has a small Zender wing that he'd probably give away! In fact, he owes me one. One time I gave him a perfectly good Borla muffler - _FOR FREE_! And he didn't even say thank you, he just drove by it like it was scrap metal.


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

more like 'swerved around'  

see? who says a Mk2 isn't light on its feet. Or was he driving the A4. 

Idontreallyremember.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Michael Bee said:


> more like 'swerved around'
> 
> see? who says a Mk2 isn't light on its feet. Or was he driving the A4.
> 
> Idontreallyremember.


Details, shmetails. It was the A4. A black one, if you can believe it!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> You could always convert to the small wing.


I like the way the big wing looks, and I like the body kit too. This is a car I covetted when I was in college, so it needs to look right to soothe my emotional wounds 

Today I didn't have to go to work so I got a lot done. No repairs, just remove a part, catalog the part, put the part away, repeat, and repeat some more.

Here's where it's at:










Back end cleared out of every wire, screw, and clip:










Keith earning dinner (you didn't think the rascals lived here for free, didja?):










As expected, once the body kit came off, my "rust-free" car turned out to have plenty of free rust :sly: The arches have a few spots like this, and some bondo:










The passenger fender was perfect, but the driver fender has this on the bottom:










Thankfully the A pillar underneath looks great:










I'll fix the rotted areas with Duct Tape. Meh. It'll be hidden under the body kit...

JUST KIDDING, I mean don't worry, I won't use the grey tape, I'll use red so it'll look great 

The car still runs *insert throaty 16V sound here*, it's easier to move around this way:










Tomorrow I have to work, but if I have time, I'll label and organize more of the wiring. Thursday I hope to get the sunroof apart and lay it out somewhere safe from curious little fingers, in such a way that it may someday be reassembled and it working order :sly:

Thereafter, the mechanicals will come out.

Toodaloo, good night :beer:


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

i hate finding rust in hidden areas to, except mine was under half an inch of dam bondo:banghead:
some dam PO thought he was a body man and tried to fix it himself


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

I love how you stripped the car bare and left the engine in it!

You should drive it around the block now. It's gotta weigh less than 1800!


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Stripping down a redhead till she's naked.... kinda like the sound if that.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looking good, keep It up!


Misspelled by my iPhone using Slaptalk!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

nickbukowy said:


> i hate finding rust in hidden areas


Me too, but I was bracing myself for worse because it's a Midwest car.

I do need some sheetmetal though:

Hood
Cowl patch (no rot, but a hood latch failure bent the driver corner badly)
Lower driver fender
Both rear arches
Both rear inner arches?

All of these parts could be patched, but I would prefer stamped stuff.

Now, this is the part where I have to eat Crow (I can hear the snickering already...):

I see people obtaining new metal, and I see people cutting off parts of shells for each other, but I didn't pay any attention to sources, because I'm a cocky Bastard and figured a rusty car would never find its way here (*infer apology* that's the best I can do ).

Help!


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

:beer:


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

Yeah, I got to fix the little rust spots on the inside on the fender well on the back driver side, but I can't get any wire wheels back there, so I'm going to use this stuff that you put on rust and it stops it dead in it's tracks, a good friend of mine used it on a couple of his muscle cars years back and hasn't had any problems since


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Sounds like you're luckier than me, I need new metal.

Hopefully someone will chime in with the source.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Big day tomorrow as I start to remove the mechanicals.

Today I organized the spaces into which I'll store everything. I'm trying to do this in a way that doesn't disrupt the flow of daily life around here, and doing the whole car at once (as opposed to rolling restorations) sure takes a lot of space!

I also did a little work on the car, the steering column and relay panel are out, and I organized and tagged all the harnesses:










So now the interior is almost done being stripped. The electricals are so tangled that I won't be able to pull them out until the engine bay is also cleared. My hope (fantasy?) is the do the electrical sytem a bit neater than VW did it, I mean sheesh, what a mess! 










I started a bit in the engine bay too. The fan shroud appears to be from an 8V car, it's quite a bit narrower than the radiator and it was only anchored on one side :facepalm: Oh well, I guess a PO did what it took to keep the car running, kudos for that :beer:










The battery tray is perfect, meaning that unless the underside of the car surprises me, the rear arches and the one fender are the only bad spot on the car:










Well those and the hood and this damaged area of the cowl, from an apparent latch failure:










More to come :beer:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Eric, this is the source I see most frequently for sheet metal:

http://www.klokkerholmusa.com/servlet/StoreFront

A brief look around showed me no Scirocco-specific parts, but I suppose that depends on what stampings were used amongst the Mk1s. Either that or my poor reading and website navigation skills failed me.

:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Woo boy...

That's the site I've seen mentioned, but a search for "Scirocco" yielded no results. Zero. Nada. None 

I'm beginning to get concerned...

Any of my problem areas could be reconstructed, but even a great metal worker (which I'm not), would end up using some filler, which y'all may have surmised by now, I don't like...

Hopefully there's a good skin donor out there somewhere.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

I know its a pain, but if you can brush up on your German, (or use babelfish)
You can get some nice parts out of Germany...
Shipping might be a bit costly, but these are the Shizz, for body repair sheetmetal...

Browse through that store, or use e-bay.de with babelfish translator

http://www.ebay.de/itm/NEU-Kotfluge...756883884?pt=DE_Autoteile&hash=item256ddb61ac


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## Chris16vRocco (Apr 30, 2006)

I have a good used drivers side quarter panel if you need it. The problem is getting it from here to there.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

New Project! Happy day for us spectators!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

@ Fred: My wife's a Kraut so maybe she can help me. Unfortunately her car vocabulary is limited even in english (anything drivetrain is "engine", all glass is "window" )...

@ Chris: Cincy maybe?

@ Jake: I see you lurk here as well, hope to make this one entertaining for all 

Today I'm keeping it short, it's beautiful out and I wanna goof off with the boys. I did get the suspension and exhaust off, and the tank out:



















The bottom looks pretty good:










The only rot was where part of the fuel system rubbe the trunk floor for 25 years, it's not near any edges so another piece of red Duct Tape and it should be good as new :










Adios :beer:


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## Chris16vRocco (Apr 30, 2006)

I intend to be there, and I can bring it along if it'll fit in the back of a Mk1. We shall see.


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## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

I like your approach to restoring this S2 16v, by dismantling it entirely :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

looking forward to seeing the reassembly process of this Scirocco ic:


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

The always too far away to be usefull Swede stands up and waves his hand..... 

Klokkerholm is a Danish company that also has a facility here in Sweden. I'll see what I can dig up in part numbers and information for you.

:thumbup: / Mats


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

Mk2 Rear corners:
http://www.klokkerholm.com/xProductCatalogue/productDetails.aspx?id=9530602&Group=1612346

Sadly that seems to be it for the mk2, for the mk1 they list heaps of stuff: 

http://www.klokkerholm.com/xProductCatalogue/productCatalogue.aspx?Group=1612276

Shouldn't be undoable to find a shell to cut the wanted parts from tho.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

California 16v said:


> I like your approach to restoring this S2 16v, by dismantling it entirely


 Thank you sir  I'm not sure where I'm going with this thing, but start with a shiny clean shell seems like a decent short term goal. 

As for the sheetmetal, we'll just have to see how it all pans out. Worst case scenario I know a good metal worker, but if I use him I'll consider that a sign a weakness . 

Today I continued stripping the car, but I had to cut short for a school fundraiser. 

The tank has a leak from some rust at the pinch weld, I don't know if I'll split the halves and restore them or buy a new tank: 










I drained all the fluids and was pleased at the appearance of the coolant: 










Overall the engine is very dry :thumbup:, only the final drive seals are leaking. I haven't cleaned anything at this point: 










The metering plate looked like this, no wiping: 










The throttle body had a little oil in it, not too bad: 










Here's where I'm at now, hopefully get the rest out tomorrow: 



















Edit: at first I assumed the engine was spent and I'd have to rebuild it, but it looks good and I'm wondering if at 181000 miles, maybe somebody got to it already? I can tell from incorrect fasteners and such that it has been out of the car before. I'll run a compression test and then decide what to do. The gear oil also looks good, so maybe I'll just replace all the seals without splitting the case open, I haven't decided yet. 

Happy Friday :beer:


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Took a walk around the junk yard today. 

They had a MKII Scirocco there last fall with a clean body, though I would see if it was still around. 

It's still there but in sad shape, a few to many moves with the fork lift I think. Body is now pretty beat up 
, to the point that the roof is buckled.  

I'll keep my eyes open for others, you carry on with the OCD restoration.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> The only rot was where part of the fuel system rubbe the trunk floor for 25 years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Der auto ist rot. :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

PoorHouse;76439622I'll keep my eyes open for others[/QUOTE said:


> Thank you sir :thumbup:
> 
> Today I got a bunch more stuff off the car, engine out:
> 
> ...


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Eric, I remember this quote from you: 
You, my friend are at that point too  




echassin said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *fredybender* »_
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Factory roof in this hog?


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> Compression test results, no oil in the pan: 155, 140 (150 with a suirt of oil in the cylinder), 155, 155. A mechanic friend said "clean it, paint it, and put it back in". Obviously I will put new seals, clutch, water pump, timing belt, etc... but I agree with him unless y'all have overwhelming evidence that this is a bad idea:


 
If you are going this far with this car, taking the motor apart and having new bearings, rings and oil pump is not that much more money. You can have the block hot tanked, and painted. Lap the valves and making sure everything is good and within specs.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> Factory roof in this hog?


 Yessir. 

@Marc: your point is the logical counterpoint to my current preference. I'm leaving both as options depending on how things go.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

echassin said:


> Yessir.
> 
> @Marc: your point is the logical counterpoint to my current preference. I'm leaving both as options depending on how things go.


 In my experience, with a project of this level, usually the one thing you try and skip doing will bite you in the but.

I would say stuff like bushings, seals etc all need to go new and it is much better to refresh the motor inside and out while it is out.

It would suck to put it all in and then need to rip it apart shortly after.


Misspelled by my iPhone using Slaptalk!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The boys had some friends here for a sleep over and I made a nice big breakfast for them, plus I'm having company over for a BBQ, but I was able to get more stuff off the car. Now the only thing that remains is the sunroof, which is fairly clean work that I'll do during the week after work. 

Speaking of work, some people wonder how I get grubby at home, but then get clean to do surgery. The trick is Kevlar gloves that I use in the O.R. to keep from cutting myself. When I'm working on the cars, I wear a layer of latex, and the Kevlar keeps the latex from ripping. Here's my hands at the end of the day yesterday, before washing them. You can see how dirty the Kevlar gets: 










Anyhoo, here's the wiring out and organized: 










The shell is pretty empty by now: 










Heat shield is off and I was able to snake off the hard lines too: 



















Fuel pump bracket; I'll just throw some black paint on it and call it good : 










Anyone know what this is? It was sitting up by the firewall in the engine bay . at first I thought it was a golf tee, but it's hollow: 










Next is the sunroof, and then it's time to rig up a tiptissory :beer:


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

echassin said:


> Speaking of work, some people wonder how I get grubby at home, but then get clean to do surgery. The trick is Kevlar gloves that I use in the O.R. to keep from cutting myself. When I'm working on the cars, I wear a layer of latex, and the Kevlar keeps the latex from ripping. Here's my hands at the end of the day yesterday, before washing them. You can see how dirty the Kevlar gets:


 
We are going to need a group buy on the kevlar gloves. 


Do you have a blast cabinet for the little pieces?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

PoorHouse said:


> Do you have a blast cabinet for the little pieces?


 Yes, but if I blast that fuel pump bracket, it will vanish  

Hey, if y'all have ever wondered: a bare mk2 shell weighs 500 lbs  We weighed it using a bathroom scale under the corners and added it up.


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## DT1 (May 9, 2011)

echassin said:


> Anyone know what this is? It was sitting up by the firewall in the engine bay . at first I thought it was a golf tee, but it's hollow:


 Looks like part of the bonnet release. 

See post #8 

http://forums.kilometermagazine.com...od-release-cable-installation-details-diagram


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

echassin said:


> Yes, but if I blast that fuel pump bracket, it will vanish
> 
> Hey, if y'all have ever wondered: a bare mk2 shell weighs 500 lbs  We weighed it using a bathroom scale under the corners and added it up.


 Hehehe... 
Did you know a Mk1 weighted 360lbs  
Thats 38% lighter... 

Hats off to you Eric, for taking this on, I really hope you're having as much fun doing it, as I am watching you, doing it


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

fredybender said:


> Hehehe...
> Did you know a Mk1 weighted 360lbs
> Thats 38% lighter...


 A kitted MK2 has less drag than a mk1, so it can get a higher top speed!


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

DT1 said:


> Looks like part of the bonnet release.
> 
> See post #8
> 
> http://forums.kilometermagazine.com...od-release-cable-installation-details-diagram


 Yep. Here's the pic from the post:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TheTimob said:


> Yep. Here's the pic from the post:


 Yep, it was indeed missing off the cable, thanks :thumbup: 

Fred, yours and a few others on Vortex are the inspiration for me trying this. It's been fun so far because for decades I've fixed A1 VWs, even rebuilt a few gearboxes. But I've never started with a bare shell and added each bit back to it one by one, I'm looking forward to that


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Eric: I just might end up at your house just for sh!its & giggles to help you wrench out! 
I also hope, and wish you "pace" to help you, and your family, get through this. 
Never loose the "pace" : have up & down swings, to take care of the real stuff, not the "German stuff", although I am a vivid fan, of "get it done" 

I am looking forward of seeing you again at Cincy! 

PS: this thread is Epic !


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Don't worry, for years I was a super-busy surgeon but I got burned out, and now I only accept about 1/4 of the work I used to, it's the best choice I've ever made. 

I sleep 8 hours every night, do all my chores, and have plenty of free time while the boys are at school, and when my wife is sick of having me underfoot and grabbing her a$$ . 

I don't work long hours on my various projects, nor do I rush, nothing magic, but a few hours every single day adds up fast. 

I will be at Cincy, but with the GTI, er Kia :laugh:. 

Anyone is welcome to come visit. Jim and Timbo have stopped by :thumbup:


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## Mean 'n Green86 (Dec 17, 2006)

:thumbup::thumbup::beer:


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

:beer: 

at this pace, you're gonna pass me up! I'm taking a vaca soon, I'm whooped. Very anxious to follow your progress :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

veedubtek said:


> :beer:
> 
> at this pace, you're gonna pass me up!


 Lol, no way. I stripped the car fast because so I could tuck evrything away in the basement and minimize the mess. 

This week I have a fair amount of "real" work, but I'll try to get the sunroof out and start on the tiptissery.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Another nice Spring day in Chicago, and relaxing with a tasty beverage (or two) outside didn't leave much time to work on the car. 

Plus, with "help" like this, it's hard to be efficient, but it's more fun this way : 










I did get the sunroof out intact. It'll need new upholstery, and hopefully one of you guys knows how to put it all back in : 










After dinner I farted around with the engine, hoping that stuff comes apart OK. I was happy to get the exhaust manifold off without breaking any studs. I don't think I ever achieved that before, so no Helicoils on this bad boy :thumbup:: 










The water pump also makes for stubborn fasteners sometimes, but it came off without a hitch too: 










Tomorrow I have a long day at work, but maybe I'll strip the engine a bit more. 

Nighty night :beer:


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## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

opcorn: 

I've seen your work. Really enjoying this thread so far. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you sir. 

I got a few more bits off the engine and took off the gearbox and clutch. 

I have to say I was very pleased to see that VW used 10mm triples square bolts to mount the starter instead of the Allen bolts that worked fine on several million other A1 cars . 

Yes, I admit that I do not have a 10mm triple square tool, but it never came up before. 

I have to spend a few days organizing the pile of parts in the basement. The way it is now, it is unlikely that I will be able to remember how to put the car back together right  

Updates when they are worthy


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Keep it coming, Eric. :thumbup:


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## hatchbackkid82 (Mar 20, 2012)

Awesome thread:thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

^^^Thank you sir. 

Today I went through the pile of parts in the basement and tried to lay them out in some logical way where there is some hope of successfully reassembling the car  

I also bagged and labelled all the hardware, and I already have a bag with "miscellaneous" hardware, meaning I already forgot where it goes  

The only things left in the garage are the bare shell and the engine. 

Here's the basement now, my wife is simply thrilled with the new decor: 














































This is the "delete" pile, meaning stuff I might not put back on, but which I'll keep just in case someone wants to make the car correct again: 










I have a few more bits to take off the engine, and then I get to start on the tiptisserie


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

You have constructed a 1:1 scale Scirocco Model kit! 

You should box it up, and wrap it in cellophane. Then you get to open it and build it!


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Sweet. Conference table in your basement! 

Do you perform surgery there? 

Nice progress Eric... very impressive


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks like my house! Welcome to the club! Don't let the wives meet, that would be bad!!!!

Great work so far!


Misspelled by my iPhone using Slaptalk!


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

holy wow! You are a cocky son of a... :laugh::heart:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

d-bot said:


> holy wow! You are a cocky son of a... :laugh::heart:


Well d'uh. I'm awesome and I know it 

Big day today, too tired to type, so I'll let the pictures talk:




























I'm gonna relax with a tasty beverage,

I bid you good evening :beer:


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Followed your thread with one too 
:beer:


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

That undercarriage better be spotless by tomorrow or else...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

petebee said:


> That undercarriage better be spotless by tomorrow or else...


Meh. It won't be.

This thing I made works but it's a piece of isht, gotta redo most of it tomorrow.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Still your jig is impressive, I have seen a few variations of it in the golf1 forum, they seem To put a bigger diameter or radius on the pivot, may work easier.

Good luck!


Misspelled by my iPhone using Slaptalk!


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## MattRabbit (Mar 16, 2000)

Holy Crap, Eric bought another VW! I am totally going to keep track of this thread. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The pivot part works well, I can flip the car on its side and back by myself.

But the rear half is awful creaky. It's basically the same as the front except I did a isht job on it instead of taking a break.

So now I get to redo it. There might be a lesson in there for me ?


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## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

ziggirocco said:


> your jig is impressive


I hear this statement often....


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

.)


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

echassin said:


> Meh. It won't be.
> 
> This thing I made works but it's a piece of isht, gotta redo most of it tomorrow.


Okay that undercarriage better be spotless by tomorrow (since today is yesterday's tomorrow already :screwy


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

petebee said:


> Okay that undercarriage better be spotless by tomorrow


Haha. No.

The boys off off for Spring break as of now, so I'm gonna let this POS sit for a bit as is.

I did get the tiptissory redone to my satisfaction today, nice and sturdy now :thumbup::










Of course, now that we wanna goof off outside, it's raining


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Look at that Cub Cadet!

Did you restore that?


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## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

yes, that Cadet is NICE... saw it first hand and heard it run... restored in Echassin fashion.... He has inspired me to get one now...


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

:beer:


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Shrttrackr said:


> yes, that Cadet is NICE... saw it first hand and heard it run... restored in Echassin fashion.... He has inspired me to get one now...


 We need a build thread on that.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

PoorHouse said:


> We need a build thread on that.


Glad you like it. It's a 1965 Cadet 122 I got last year in terminal condition. Same process as with a VW: disassemble, clean parts, fix parts, refinish parts, buy parts, assemble :




























IMO this tractor symbolizes everything that is good about "Made in America". Many parts are too heavy to lift by a single person. The gearbox is massive and way heavier than an 020! The front axle and the grill frame are cast iron :thumbup:

Today we went and picked up a Cadet 107 for Craig and visited an RC car track while the girls went shopping. I did get some cleaning done on the shell, and worked a bit on the pinch welds.

The rails were so mashed that all I could do was flatten them completely and remake the lip.

Flat:










The metals healthy, which was surprising. New lip, and rockers back to factory finish:










Then I stripped the aftermarket undercoating off two of the wheel wells, much easier standing up, and not unpleasant with good music and tasty beverages:



















You can see where the rust damage is on the rear arch, but the A pillar and rocker are perfect.

Not sure what on the schedule for tomorrow, but I'll try to get more cleaning done when there's down time.


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

Gaaah....seeing a bare shell makes me wanna do things....! 

You're making good progress Eric, all done by June 1st? :thumbup:


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Very nice! How did you redo the angle on the lip?

I fugure youbused a hammer and dolly to flatten it but how did you recreate the bend? Looks very nice and consistent.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ziggirocco said:


> How did you redo the angle on the lip?


I just used pliers, but I did scratch a reference line into the metal first, and I used a straight edge to check and tweak the results.

The back straightened:










The boys are on Spring Break, so I wasted no time putting one of them to work, as he hasn't yet worked off this month's rent :










The undercoating on this car isn't very tough, so a heat gun and a spatula makes it fall off in sheets, good news after what I went through to get it off the other cars:










And after a good scrub, the driver floor pan is clean:










The other good news is that the jack points are in PERFECT condition, namely because they've never been used :facepalm:. Unfortunately you can see that improper jacking over the years has really caved in the floors. However, I have a plan:

Many people who know us think I'm nice to my wife because I love her, but it's actually because her older brother is big.

No, I mean REALLY big. And not jiggly big. I mean skull-crushing-with-one-hand big. I think it's Viking genes or something.

So I'm hoping to woo him over here with some brats and beer and have him stand in the windshield opening and jump up and down on those floors to get them back down. If you've ever seen one of his shoes you'll see that my plan is fool-proof. But if needed, I'll cut out the worst part of the floor beams to make it easier; they're so mangled it might be better to remake them anyways.

Anyhoo, various things going on this coming week, but I'll try to get more srubbing done during down time.

Carry on :beer:


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## glidrew (Jul 25, 2002)

WOW...glad to see you picked up another toy. this new thread has been an enjoyable read. damn, you work quickly. love the basement wall art pic. maybe Chris and I can come up for the show this summer. looks like it might be done by then. nice work as always. keep the pics coming. :beer:

Drew


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

You can also lay down some of the factory undepadding and use a large sledge hammer, I have done it in the past and worked out fine, that is if your b-in-law decides not to come by!


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

Eric, get yourself a slide hammer and you should be able to work even the worst dents out, I did on the floor of my Mk1, worked like a charm. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Falcor said:


> Eric, get yourself a slide hammer and you should be able to work even the worst dents out, I did on the floor of my Mk1, worked like a charm. :thumbup:


I have one, but I don't have a stud gun and I'd rather not drill a bunch of holes in the floor, unless there's another trick?

Today I did a fair amount of work. First up was the engine mount bolt I had to cut to remove the engine. I was able to pry open the retainer, remove the detritus, and slide in a good replacement:










Sliding action, check,

down:










up:










Then I did more undercoating removal:










The K bar did its job well, no cracks even with 180,000+ miles:










Some rust,

Rear of the floor where the tank rests:










I think the tank was rubbing here, two little holes under the trunk:










Rear beam mounts are perfect:










I also scraped most of the undercoating off the trunk floor, I'll wash the rest off tomorrow as well as start on the engine bay. Once the shell is clean I'll start cutting and welding.

:beer:


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

Eric you are a maniac. And this thread is proof that you have "the 'itis'" lol. Good for you getting the kids involved too...I'm calling CPS as I type this. :laugh:


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

For not so sharp dents you can tackweld a threaded nut onto the dent and then pull with a bolt attached to the slide hammer. I did that on mine, not sure if your hammer came with a threaded tool attachment thingie?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Good idea :thumbup:

More cleaning today:

Under the trunk:










Core support. This was all black with undercoating, I'm really proud of how clean I got it:



















These rust spots are way up in the core support. You'd never be able to discern them without removing every speck of grime:










Started the bay:










Hopefully finish the bay tomorrow and straighten the floors, then clean the other two wheelwells Thursday or Friday.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

More cleaning today and close examination of the shell.

Engine bay done:










Both front wheelwells and 1.5 rear wheelwells done:










I've been looking closely at this shell as I work on it, and mostly it's solid and a great starting point. I did find two stress cracks near the passenger side engine mount which I'll need to MIG shut.

They're at the tips of the blue tape arrows:










Tomorrow I'll finish the last wheelwell and work on the other passenger side pinch welds, and do some general tidying.

Night night :wave:


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

the Rocc-Doc....he exists! 

Beautiful work, I'm awsomely impressed each time I read this thread. :thumbup: :wave:


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

wow

you sure do work fast man, kinda getting me motivated to start working on the body again, but it's to dam cold to do anything, and the weather has been really weird
one day it's some what nice, then the next its raining or snowing:screwy:

I can't wait till it finally warms up a bit so I can finish the last little bit of body work


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Eric, what are you using for cleaner?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for the compliments :beer:

@ Mike: For the thick undercoating, a heat gun on high and some gentle teasing with a spatula had the stuff falling off in sheets. For thin undercoating, heat and wiping did the trick. For grease or grime, I used gasoline and stiff brushes of various shapes and sizes (garage doors open for fresh air). An old tarp protected the floor.

The whole car consumed two gallons of gasoline, three rolls of paper towels and ruined a handful of brushes, so a total of 10 to 20 dollars :thumbup:


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

So what's the actual plan here? Spot rust treatment or something else? You are doing a great job but it would seem that the next step would be to get the car to "bare metal" when doing a restoration, though not sure what your final goal is besides "stupid clean!"


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

First off, let me admit that my plan will not be for everyone .

My goal is to daily a durable car that is as simple as a Mk1. The fact that it is a 16V is of little consequence to me the way I drive, and it's staying because it's what it came with and it runs.

Any areas where the factory finishes have stood the test of time will be preserved. Any surface rust will be blasted and refinished appropriately. Any rot or ruined metal will be cut out and good metal welded in, followed by spot finishing.

The interior has good paint that will not be redone except for touchups.

The bottom of the car will get a mist coat of red, enough to provide color, but not so much that it could peel.

The engine bay will get retouched as needed, but likely not a respray, so I don't have to worry about prepping the hard to reach areas, especially if they're still healthy.

The body will be sanded down to metal only for the left quarter, which has had previous repairs that I don't trust. The rest of the shell will be sanded, sealed, and resprayed original color. 

With the car on its side, a good tank, undercar lines, fuel pump, accumulator, bare rear beam and pedals/rack/steering column will be installed, the car flipped flat and the tiptisserie removed. The floor beams (?replaced), bumper mount channels, and rear arch repairs will get a spray of cosmoline.

The HVAC and optimized harnesses will go in, followed by the engine and gearbox, CIS etc... and the car will get a test start. The engine will run without oil cooler and with an early non-overflow radiator. (I drove my Cabby for years like that with a turbo and much more power and it was fine).

Then paint and install fenders, doors, hatch, and hood, and kit, all of which need work. The rear arches of the kit will be glued only, no screws, and hopefully no rust source.

Then suspension, brakes, wheels (15" dished Ronal R8's if possible), headliner, sunroof, glass, interior (reupholstered), a good dash, tie up loose ends, and let 'er rip.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I have to quit early today but was able to finish cleaning the shell and tallying problem areas.

Here's how the shell sits now:










The other front wheelwell:










The passenger rear wheelwell and arch, which need work:




























Then I tackled the other pinch rail. Before:



















After:



















Tomorrow I'll do general cleanup, particularly the interior, which has bit of foam and residual glue everywhere, and I'll check and refurbish the floor and firewall tar paper as needed.

Asta la vista


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

You sir are a maniac. I mean that in a good way. :thumbup:


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## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

Maniac is about as big an understatement as when Eric says he is just doing "general cleaning".

Eric - when you say "tasty beverages" are you talking Red Bull? Because if someone videoed your work, and then played it, it would probably look like the player was fast forwarding.

I look at my Cirrus Gray beauty in the garage, being restored at a snail's pace, and I am embarassed! Funny - or not - I was going to take tomorrow off specifically to work on my car. Then 15 minutes go, the boss calls a 'group meeting' at 12:00 noon.

Ufck.

Nicely done Eric, I hope to gain some inspiration from this thread.


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

OorsciroccO said:


> Maniac is about as big an understatement as when Eric says he is just doing "general cleaning".
> 
> Eric - when you say "tasty beverages" are you talking Red Bull? Because if someone videoed your work, and then played it, it would probably look like the player was fast forwarding.
> 
> ...


Craig call in sick tomorrow and git your hiney into the garage and work. I need to see some better, more pics of your Cirrus for inspiration.

Eric is a maniac for sure but that's why we love him. Which car are you bringing to Cincy?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

@Craig: I drink Diet Coke and V8 in equal amounts.

@Pete: I'm driving the GTI to Cincy. All jokes about the fast work aside, this car will take a while because absolutely every part is either spent, broken, crusty, or just plain missing...

...but I wanted a real project with good potential and I'm happy with it.


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

:beer::thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> ...but I wanted a real project with good potential and I'm happy with it.


And we are happy to keep reading this fine thread. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Aw shucks :heart:

We're having company for a BBQ but I was able to get some of the "debridement" done (as we call it in my business). The most concerning area was this little hole at the top of the passenger rear shock tower:










It's there because the bracket that holds the gravity valve and vent tubing to the tank's filler hose is designed in such a way that it gets splashed by road salt, yet the Schutz coating they apply at the factory can't cover the bracket thoroughly:










Once the hole forms, water runs down between the inner body sheetmetal and the shock tower, and causes rust you can't see for years because the area is coated with seam sealer and nice red paint.

But the little hole is a harbinger of much worse, and it all has to go:



















The repair shouldn't be too hard, and with all the bad metal gone, it should last. I'll redesign the bracket so it doesn't happen again.

Then I cleaned up the rear of the exhaust tunnel, another easy fix:










I only had time to do one arch, and I think I'll redesign how this is made with hopes of a permanent solution knowing that it's under the body kit and won't show:



















I think I'll bend the inner skin outward so it meets the outer skin at a 90 degree angle with no double layer of steel where Cosmoline can't reliably flow. That and I'll glue the kit to the arch rather than penetrate the steel with screws, which would guarantee new rust.

Hopefully I'll get the other arch cut tomorrow and work on the floor beams.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

What are you using to cut? It looks like an angry bear came in and nibbled on your rear inner fender! :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Cutting wheels big and small. I'm actually very happy with the exposure and rust removal process. More to go, but at least I've seen enough to have a definite plan and know that it's repairable without resorting to "encapsulating" or "converting" a bunch of inaccessible rust and then living with it in denial.

After some big fat burgers, by brother-in-law and I got to work on the floor beams, and I'm satisfied so far, pending some further tweaking and some welding.

Driver's side:










Passenger side:










And finally, the entire driver side beam, even when straight, was about 1" high in the back. The seat mount/crossmember was even tweaked :what: I'm beginning to think the car went over something at some point that pushed up the floor and cross-member, I don't think jacking could have done this.

My brother-in-law had at it using a massive 6 foot long 4x4 protruding from the sunroof, and this is the result:










You can see the floor beams are perfectly parallel to each other. Admittedly this was not a gentle process and there will be some more work to do to make it right.

But a good foundation to work with :thumbup:


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## Fein1 (Mar 8, 2002)

Holy @#$%#@$ I havent been on here forever and thought I was dreaming when I saw you had not only a MKII but a 16v at that.

Give me a call.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Fein1 said:


> not only a MKII but a 16v at that.


And a basket case, too


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We spent most of the day in the city goofing off but I try to do a little something on the project every day, so I cut the bad metal out of the other arch. You can get a better sense when the car is on its side how the inner skin, with some work, will meet the outer skin without any metal overlap that would trap moisture.

Rear corner:










Top of the arch:










Where the arch meets the rocker:










As a finishing touch, I may weld on a piece of 1/4" steel wire to recreate a nice edge.

With the car on its side I got a better look at how we did with the floor pounding procedure. Not bad, but as expected the beams themselves still look awful. There's no rust so I could leave them as is, but I know myself well enough that if I don't redo them, I'll hate seeing them when I get under the car.

I outlined the part I'm gonna cut out and redo:










The crease I mentionned earlier didn't move, and it's under the seat cross member so I can't push on it. It's where the line is, and you can't see that the whole floor is pushed up 1/2" along that line, enough that it pulled the floor away from the beam:










Obviously a stud gun would be best but I don't have one. I like the trick of welding nuts to the bottom and pulling on those, but I got lazy and used my dent puller as is. In order to pull straight, I screwed a piece of "L" to the bottom, and pulled on that:










The result is very satisfactory:










I'll weld the holes shut and touch up the Schutz before painting the bottom of the car.

Now I gotta find some steel :beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey dokey, baby steps, but steps nevertheless. I got this thing for X-mas, time to try it out:










I started by filling the holes in the floor from pulling the crease out:










I ground them before taking a picture to hide my shame . Be gentle 

I'm happier with the frame rail stress cracks:




























I don't think I'll grind these, considring my inexperience, I'm happy with them the way they are.

BTW, my welding mentor is a certified medical welder, and he will be inspecting my work before I cover it, to be sure it's adequate, and he will help with anything that is inadequate.


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

echassin said:


>


man i would die for a mig welder like that, that's one of the few thing i am missing from my garage


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

a small tip, remove all paint and other stuff from the area you intend to weld before, will help make cleaner better welds and produce less smoke and potential fires...... :wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Yes. I removed some surrounding finish, but not enough, especially the Schutz, where I did find myself blowing out little flames 

I have a sand blaster, but I've been avoiding it because it makes such a mess. I'll have to use the blaster when I prep for the arches and the tower, since the spaces are too confined to reach by other means.


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

Angle grinder with a coarse wirebrush works well for the undercoating be gentle and you wont disturb the coat of paint underneath, but wear goggles and something thicker than a T-shirt or you'll end up a metallic porcupine....


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## BluDemon (Jun 19, 2005)

When you start putting things back together please keep a list (post it up) of hard to find items or even items you had to have made to compete your project. 

I'm inspired by you and others who have taken similar projects on and really thinking of tackling something like this myself. 

I need to start a car restoration fund so when the time comes I can roll with it.


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

Falcor said:


> Angle grinder with a coarse wirebrush works well for the undercoating be gentle and you wont disturb the coat of paint underneath, but wear goggles and something thicker than a T-shirt or you'll end up a metallic porcupine....


Like what he said, they work great, but it sucks when your whole chest and stomache look like a pin cushion, if you have a face shield, I would suggest you wear that to


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

nickbukowy said:


> Like what he said, they work great, but it sucks when your whole chest and stomache look like a pin cushion, if you have a face shield, I would suggest you wear that to


+1 on the porcupine comment. :laugh:


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Looks good. I've always been happy with the rapid strip discs and +1 for the face shield for whatever you are using to grind. I picked up a full face shield from home depot half way through my project and wore it the whole rest of the timetime. For $10 it will save your face and keep you clean(er). 

the strip disc for an angle grinder.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I may get one of those discs ^^^ I like the way it looks. I have a wire wheel for my angle grider but it's scary as heck.

Today I didn't have a chance to get some metal, so I cleaned up the engine. I've decided to run it it as is, and when it needs it, it'll get a full formal rebuild. All or none, and since it runs well, has good compression and doesn't leak a drop, I'm not gonna rebuild it yet.

Quicky job, but it turned out nice:



















Hopefully I'll get some steel pronto.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks good, but I would recommend strongly to at least do the rear main seal, and the trans input shaft seal and clutch rod seal, it would suck for them to leak afterwards......even if the rest holds up, IMO those are the minimum, the rest can all be done in place without separating the trans etc.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Normally I would, but it took me only a few minutes to clean the block of any oily residue, and the timing belt looks new. In this case, I'm gambling the the engine has already been worked on and I'm not touching it. If I'm wrong, it'll come back out and I'll eat humble pie 

Today I began work in earnest on the shell, starting with one of the beams:



















I'm very happy with the result, but I admit I ain't no expert. I waited until after I ground the welds to take pictures because it was not so much "stack of dimes" as it was "bowl of popcorn . The problem was that I cleaned the edges of all Cosmoline, but as the area heated up, some of the residual dripped down into the seam that's closest to the floor (the car's on its side) :facepalm:. I'll take better care to remove ALL of it when I do the other beam.

The old metal actually was healthy, but pretty mangled:










More as time permits


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

Nice repair there sir. Have you tried stitching your welds vs. trying to "stack coins"? Might be easier until you get more practice.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I ended up stitching the first beam because I could only blow a small part of the seam clean, weld a bit before the Cosmoline ran out again.

I just finished the second beam and I used a heat gun ahead of time to melt the Cosmoline and make it all run out:










The steel is a bit thicker than stock, and it's carved from a square tube so it has rounded edges, I tacked and welded the ends first:










Then I tacked the edges and ran welds in between the tacks, this time with a more satisfactory appearance before grinding:










Finished top weld before grinding:










Top weld groud and finished bottom weld:










(You can see the rear weld didn't penetrate well, it broke, and i had to redo it)

Finished beam with hole completed:



















I also threw another coat of black on the engine block, it was too thin in some places. I like it thin so it doesn't tend to peel, but I could see some of the primer tint:

Now:



















Tomorrow I'll fix the rear of the exhaust tunnel and maybe start on that rear shock tower.

Bye bye! :wave:


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

not to try and take anything from anyone, but I've never seen a rear main problem until someone screws with it because they have that old GM mentality...vw has never had a problem with rear mains...

...until someone screws with it. I won't touch one unless it's absolutely leaking...and that usually means someone has been there before. keep it up sir, looking fantabulous :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Well at least someone agrees with me, and not just anyone!

I got a lot of the welding done today, here's the bottom now:










The rear of the exhaust tunnel:










The hole in the trunk floor:










Some holes in the firewall:










Various brackets and the sheetmetal behind them:




























I also got one rear arch done, the picture doesn't show up well, but there's a piece of welding rod along the cut edge of the arch, so it's strong and will look normal, or like a rolled fender. It'll all be under the kit anyways:










Most important, there are no overlapping sheets of metal to trap moisture :thumbup:

I have to work tomorrow, but more progress ASAP :heart:


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Eric:
I don't post all that much in your thread, but always looking in here...A big cheers, on the way you are going with this!
major respect points!
Fred


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

High praise coming from you, thank you sir!

I still have to do the other arch, the one rear tower, and the one cowl corner.

The plan then is to get the shell outside and sandblast any surface rust that remains. Then I can slather on seam sealer to hide the popcorn, er, WELDS 

After that I'll paint the bottom, touch up the trunk, interior firewall, and the engine bay, and tape off all those areas to keep them nice as work continues.

Only then will the aesthetic part of the bodywork begin.

And since it's gonna come up soon enough: where do I get a new tank at good price?


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> And since it's gonna come up soon enough: where do I get a new tank at good price?


SPECTRA PREMIUM Part # VW5A 

RockAuto has it for $149 (shipped)

Amazon.com has it for $164.99 (shipped)

Advance Auto Parts is $225

AutoZone is $225

O'Reilly Auto is $232


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## Scirocco16 (Feb 4, 2012)

echassin said:


> And since it's gonna come up soon enough: where do I get a new tank at good price?


 Here's what I got. http://www.amazon.com/Spectra-Premi...TZFW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333631849&sr=8-1


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Wow. That sure beats doing research 

As they say, "it's not what you know, it's who you know" 

I worked late today, so no real work, I just cleaned up one of the brake lines.

*Cue "BOOOOOOOOOHHH!"*


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> As they say, "it's not what you know, it's who you know"


I sell auto parts. It's what I do. 

k, now replace my knee, okay?


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Don't you have two knees Tim? 

Nice work Eric! Cool to see a Scirocco's skeleton....perhaps?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you sir. 

Today I did the other arch. It took a little longer due to rust and accident damage. 

What was left after I cut out the worst of it: 










After building up the outer skin: 



















After repairing the inner skin and welding it to the outer panel: 



















You can see how thick the edge is after adding the welding rod as a lip. It's super stiff this way, and there are no overlapping metal layers to trap moisture :thumbup: 

Here's where the shell is at now, the bottom is ready for touchup sandblasting and refinishing: 










You can see that the rear jack points have never been used. Someone used the rear valence to jack the car and caved it in. I did my best to straighten it, but it's gonna need some filler when I do the aesthetic bodywork. 

Tomorrow I'll lay the car flat and try to fix the cowl, and after that the rear tower. 

Happy Easter :beer:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I ordered a new gas tank from Rockauto and it arrived within 48 hours :thumbup:: 










My GTI's isn't painted and is still shiny after 25+ years , but unless somebody knows for sure this tank is made of the same alloy, I think I'll put seam sealer along the pinch weld, and prime/paint it. 

I fixed the cowl today, this is how it started, apparently a hood latch failure in the past: 










I made five steel bits using paper templates from the other side: 



















I first tacked and then stitch welded it all together: 










Welds ground down and primed: 



















This is the panel gap without any filler, I'll clean it up as needed: 










I have to go to work and tomorrow we're away, so hopefully more work next week.


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## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> ......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Eric, 

What are you using to cut these out from the sheet of steel? 

Mighty fine job you are doing sir! Hope you had a great day away with the family. :heart: 
-Dan


----------



## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Use this on the bare metal:


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

Loving this thread. Great work!!! 

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

@Dan: I used tin snips for the cowl parts, but usually I use an angle grinder with a cuttoff wheel, which explains why the car looks like it was chewed up by a shark  

@ Jim, good to know. I'll soon be blasting everything to get rid of any last areas of brown, so I need to start gathering refinishing supplies. Is it available locally or is it an Internet specialty thing? 

@ Brendan: Thank you sir :beer: 

After work today I'm hoping to get the rear shock tower buttoned up, so I'll see y'all later :wave:


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> @ Jim, good to know. I'll soon be blasting everything to get rid of any last areas of brown, so I need to start gathering refinishing supplies. Is it available locally or is it an Internet specialty thing?


 
Most hardware store have that. I have a gallon of something similar made by CIL. 

It's phosphoric acid, and it will etch bare steel, turn rust into an inert residue. 

Then you can paint the whole car with your favorite brand of epoxy primer / hardener to seal everything from your next top coat.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks, I didn't realize that's what that was. I already have some, then. 

As of today I've had the car a month, and today I declare the shell structurally sound. *Waves hand in official fashion* 

The shock tower is done and way stronger than stock, since to debride it I only had to remove 7 spot welds. I once again fixed it so there's no overlapping metal to trap moisture. 

The initial repair; you can see the hole up top that started it all, where the gravity valve bracket was: 










The completed repair: 










At the base of the tower you can see where I "biopsied" the joints between the floor, the rear frame rail and the tower, to check how far the rust went. The are numerous stitch welds piled on top of each other because there are three layers of steel that meet there. These welds will be "dressed" all right. With abundant seam sealer, that is  

I left gaps to stuff primer and paint in the joints, and primed the rest also: 










The repair as seen from within the wheel well: 










You can see more of the "biopsy" scars at the level of the frame rail. "This won't hurt a bit, just some pressure" (another one of those little lies we say in this dirty business of ours ) 

Tomorrow I hope to get the shell outside and sandblast any remaining surface rust before applying any seam sealer. 

Sleep tight, don't let the bedbugs bite.


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

What a fun thread to read. If not for HIPAA, I would ask you to document some of your procedures. I can only imagine that they would be as detailed and interesting. Better to leave the photography to one of your assistants, though. Wouldn't want the patient to bleed out while you got a macro shot of the titanium joints! 

:laugh:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

YouTube has lots of videos of total hip and total knee replacements, if you want to look. It's not bloody like people think, so even if you're a bit squeamish, it does make for interesting viewing.


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

I was fixing a PC in one of the OR's at our Bone and Joint center during a procedure. Not sure what was going on but it involved a long bar and a big hammer.  My co-worker had to step out, he was about to loose his cookies! 

Brendan


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I did some shopping today for various things I'll need for the project, but I was able to get the shell outside to sandblast any remaining surface rust. It's such filthy and miserable work that I didn't take a lot of pictures, but it amounts to finding and blasting all the myriad hard-to-get areas that would be difficult by other means. 

The junction of the rear wheel well with the floor and the rear beam: 










The pinch welds: 










I should have taken a picture of the outer surface of the pinch rail, where the layers of sheetmetal overlap, but it's already in primer, so I blew that one. It looked really nice. 

There was one spot of "surface rust" in the gas tank recess that blew through, so I had to weld it shut: 










I was pleased to note that by sweeping the driveway and screening the pile of debris, the bucket of abrasive was nearly full again, thereby saving a few bucks :thumbup:............ 

..........which I now have to spend on a new garage door spring :facepalm: 

Actually, I was glad it was a broken spring because when I first pushed the garage door opener and nothing happened, I feared that Petra (my wife) had finally had enough and changed the door code and the front door lock, and was on eHarmony looking for a more suitable spouse


----------



## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

echassin said:


> ..........which I now have to spend on a new garage door spring :facepalm:
> 
> Actually, I was glad it was a broken spring because when I first pushed the garage door opener and nothing happened, I feared that Petra (my wife) had finally had enough and changed the door code and the front door lock, and was on eHarmony looking for a more suitable spouse


 :laugh: Just got done replacing two of those, had someone come in and replace two of the three doors with torsion springs and got rid of the cheapo extension springs. There are holes in the walls above my doors, and also bent bracketry from the explosion that occurs when one of those extension springs goes. 

Keep up the good work Eric. I might actually have some time this weekend to work on mine - some of which time will be spent going through boxes of parts to refesh my memory of what I have!


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Craig, I think you just like your car in its naked state 

I got a lot done today, starting with shopping:










I got all the other stuff I'll need too, total $750 :what:

Then I spent a few hours applying seam sealer everywhere.

No. Really: I mean EVERYWHERE! This stuff is as close as you can get to working with "cartoon glue"!

Here's the underside ready for finishing:










I'm really happy with the way the beams look:










The tower:



















When you weld like I do, you apply seam sealer like cake frosting 

The brackets took a lot of time, but hopefully they'll last:










The rear of the exhaust tunnel:










The lip at the rear of the floor where a blasted through yesterday:










I patched the hole by feeding MIG wire into it with a piece of thick aluminum as a backing. Worked great, not much grinding to get it to look good.

The rear arches:










The firewall and associated brackets:










And finally the cowl repair:










I also sealed the pinch weld on the new gas tank. I noticed the tank is covered with Cosmoline, so I figure that means it's the rusting kind of steel. I'll clean it thoroughly, and prime/paint it:










Then FedEx arrived with the new garage door spring, so that's that: now I have to go do something useful 










Adios.


----------



## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Nice work.

Which paint did you end up buying?


----------



## Chris Barnes (Feb 13, 2001)

Very nice work echassin!! 

The paint looks like PPG shopline to me- a very good paint for the money..

Chris


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

That's what it is, it was $110 a gallon.

I bought two gallons that I'll intermix so that I can paint pieces as I go and avoid running out of it midway and risking a remix that doesn't quite match.

Tomorrow I'll paint the bottom, the wheel wells, and the bottom half of the engine bay and rad support.

After that I'll install the hard lines, cover the newly painted areas, and put the car flat on jack stands sans tiptissery to do the rest of the body work.

BTW, I found the correct Cosmoline in aerosol form, to protect the inside of the beams and the inner surfaces of the rear arches :thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> That's what it is, it was $110 a gallon.
> 
> I bought two gallons that I'll intermix so that I can paint pieces as I go and avoid running out of it midway and risking a remix that doesn't quite match.


Sheer brilliance. Great idea. Someday I will steal that idea. :thumbup:


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

Just to put it out there, red is the most expensive color to produce (paint-wise), and you get what you pay for (quality-wise) so that number doesn't surprise me at all. I painted an ex's car 20 years ago and spent about that on material, so you got away cheap! :beer:


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

1 gallon of viper green = $800 just for the paint alone. Color me jealous. 

At this rate, you'll be driving her to Cincy this year?


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Including taxes, I paid 170$ for a gallon of Dupont 2k primer this month.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

You guys are making me feel cheap :sly:

I got the bottom of the car, the wheel wells, and the lower half of the engine bay painted today. the spraying took about an hour, the scuffing took about 6 hours :










The reconstructed tower:










I didn't take a zillion close-ups, but just to illustrate, the job isn't show-worthy, but it's a heck of a lot better than what VW did:










Tomorrow I plan to scuff and spray the upper half of the engine bay (I debated touching it up but it wouldn't be good enough).

Happy TGIF :beer:


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks great to me! Anymore and you may be afraid to actually drive the car once you finish it! Save the details for the upside!


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

looking real good man :thumbup:


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

I'm so ashamed. You've done more bodywork on this car in a month than I've done in three years!


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

sciroccojim said:


> I'm so ashamed. You've done more bodywork on this car in a month than I've done in three years!


dont feel bad man, i feel the same way:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I just like finishing more than most folks, I guess 

More pics:


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

sciroccojim said:


> I'm so ashamed. You've done more bodywork on this car in a month than I've done in three years!


This. :banghead:

At this pace, Eric will be able to drive the car to Cincy next month.


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

Mtl-Marc said:


> This. :banghead:
> 
> At this pace, Eric will be able to drive the car to Cincy next month.


He claims he is bringing the Rabbit GTI, but I don't believe him - I think he'll bring this one. At Cincy let's agree to put Eric to work on our cars


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Lol, no.

I know it has come a long way already, but there's still so much to do.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Finished engine bay and rad support (not the rain tray or the outer surface of the core support):



















By no means show work; there are a few runs and I just taped off that sticker on the rad support, but overall it's better than factory (at least it's red everywhere!)

I got tired of scuffing so I just shot the front wheel wells as is:










If the paint peels, so be it. It's under the liners anyways. I kept it thin so I hope it'll hold.

I'm very happy with the pinch welds and the overall appearance of the floors:



















And one more of the reconstructed tower, just because it looks so delicious:










Boy this thread sure is red...


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## Fein1 (Mar 8, 2002)

You have a way of making others feel inadequate....Making up for other things I suppose.


Got your message and will call tonight. Its been a crazy week.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Fein1 said:


> You have a way of making others feel inadequate....Making up for other things I suppose.


Hey now, be nice 

I wanna start on the rest of the shell, but I need to get the tiptissery off to reach everything.

To do that I have to run the hard lines first, so I'll start rehabbing them.


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Been following this build for a while now, it's coming along nicely. The attention to detail is superb. Glad to see I'm not the only Rocco nut in the Chicago area :thumbup:


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

8716vrocco said:


> Been following this build for a while now


Impossible, the rebuild started something like 17 minutes ago 
Eric on overdrive, making me feel like a slow poke


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2005)

A1 build. I love to see such attention paid to an S2. Makes my build feel chincy now!
Alot of stuff i would do differently now though, having aquired 8 years of knowledge since i started.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you

Today I got the hard lines installed on the bottom of the car, which needs to be done before removing the tiptissery:




























It took a surprisingly long time. I primed and painted the lines to give them some rust resistance, and I touched up the bottom where those metal strips grab the lines and the red paint got damaged.

I'd do more, but the Honey-do-list beckons.

Next is removal of the tiptissery and finish body work on the shell.

And then I get to start bolting stuff on


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

44 days 'till Cincy 

...


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

dang, your making a lot of progress man, i think this is going to be considered the fastest rebuild on here :laugh:

looking really good man, keep it up


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2005)

very nice job on those lines, looks like a high budget resto you typically see on muscle cars and classics. :thumbup:


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

echassin said:


> Thank you
> 
> Today I got the hard lines installed on the bottom of the car, which needs to be done before removing the tiptissery:
> 
> ...


Looks great! Did you by the lines (nos)or did you make them yourself?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm glad for the compliments, it encourages me to soldier on!

@ Nick: I'm actually moving pretty slow, but I try to do something noteworthy everyday, plus one piddly job after I clean up.

For example, yesterday's real task was to get the hard lines done, but after dinner I cleaned and installed the various body plugs:




























A big task plus a little task per day adds up fast, but if you look at the pile of crusty parts in my basement, the whole project at times seems discouragingly insurmountable .

@ Alex: My perception of so-called "high doller muscle car restorations" is that many parts are replaced in situations where I would refurbish and reuse original parts.

For a much higher dollar example of the approach I use, click this link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2EP31NhSd8&feature=relmfu

Gunnar Racing restored an original 917. It's beautiful, but he got some grief because he tested the drivetrain before restoration and decided to clean it up and run it as is; "track tested" was the term he used (in my case the drivetrain was "burnout tested ").

@ Ziggy: In the same vein, I rehabbed and reused the orignal lines. They were covered in undercoating and once stripped of it, looked very serviceable. They are as good or better than anything I could make, and I would never splurge on NOS unless I was stuck.


----------



## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

Today is April (not May) 16th and I officially vote for this thread as Thread of the year 2012 ! 

Great craftsmen make hard work look easy, this is exactly that. (I've had Flandy work in both my garage and house and he's another fine example of that)





Edited for Timewarp reasons..... :screwy:


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## Chris16vRocco (Apr 30, 2006)

Falcor said:


> Today is May 16th and I officially vote for this thread as Thread of the year 2012 !
> 
> Great craftsmen make hard work look easy, this is exactly that. (I've had Flandy work in both my garage and house and he's another fine example of that)


And all this time, I thought the time difference between here and Sweden was a matter of hours, not months.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Falcor said:


> Today is *May 16th* and ...


:sly:


----------



## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

I'm alittle ahead of my time...... :banghead:

ok....ok....shame on me...


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2005)

echassin said:


> I'm glad for the compliments, it encourages me to soldier on!
> 
> @ Alex: My perception of so-called "high doller muscle car restorations" is that many parts are replaced in situations where I would refurbish and reuse original parts.
> 
> ...


i was thinking more the high end restoration with most parts refurbished, not replaced. Look at my 8 year long build thread, that's how i like it. :thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Falcor said:


> Today is April (not May) 16th and I officially vote for this thread as Thread of the year 2012 !
> 
> Great craftsmen make hard work look easy, this is exactly that.


Thanks; there might also be some clever photography . I mean, the guy taking the pictures is the same as the guy who knows where the flaws are .

Today after work I had time to clean and shoot the raintray:



















I left any cosmoline above one's line of sight so that the A pillars and the cowl's undersurface remain protected. Therefore, I couldn't just melt it all out with the heat gun; I had to clean the painted part with a toothbrush, gasoline, and elbow grease .

Speaking of which, that cosmoline I ordered hasn't shown up yet, I gotta track that down. It's for the floor beams and inside the quarter panels.

Tomorrow after work I think I'll massage the cowl some more and ready it for paint.

Toodaloo.


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looking good!

Not sure if you mentioned it but are you going to put it back 100% stock in appearance or will you be doing any cosmetic changes, or just a period correct resto?


----------



## 868valver (Nov 3, 2009)

I like the way you do things sir! Great thread!:thumbup:opcorn:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ziggirocco said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Not sure if you mentioned it but are you going to put it back 100% stock in appearance or will you be doing any cosmetic changes, or just a period correct resto?


I won't change the shell in any permanent way except for things I modify to prevent rust (i.e.: the rear arches). No holes get shaved, they'll all get plugs, even the rear washer nozzle. I realize this isn't for everyone.

I'll try to change to round headlights in a way that doesn't damage the shell. I'll keep the kit and the rear wing. I may tweak the bumpers, and I may paint them black. Slightly lower on Bilsteins and H&R sport springs, and hopefully Ronal R8s in the dished 15" size, not the flat-faced 14" version. Tires 195/50.

Seats matte black for the bolsters and perforated matte black for the centers. Same combo for the door cards. If I can't find a good dash, I may strip mine down and have it wrapped in smooth black.

No A/C but I'll keep the wiring and the core just in case. No stereo or speakers and I hope to leave a string under the headliner to potentially pull an antenna wire later, and maybe JB weld the antenna nut in position before installing the headliner.

I debated welding the sunroof shut and cutting out all the extra metal under it, but I don't want to change the shell that much.

Of course, this is all subject to change without notice


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I had to work today but I was able to get the cowl to primer.

I was happy with the metal work on the cowl, but it did need some filler to smooth it and even the hood gap:










Certainly not unreasonably thick after 80 grit block sanding:










After prime, 180 grit DA sanding, and prime again, then let it sit overnight:










You can see I didn't spend much effort on the rain gutter, but it'll be functional and it looks acceptable IMO.

I'll sand the cowl with 400 and touch up prime before work tomorrow, then hopefully paint the cowl tomorrow afternoon.

Asta la vista


----------



## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

looking good man, cant wait for the weekend myself, suppose to be 80 degrees out, gonna spend most of the day doing body work:laugh:


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## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

*Single Stage Paint?*



Chris Barnes said:


> Very nice work echassin!!
> 
> The paint looks like PPG shopline to me- a very good paint for the money..
> 
> Chris


Eric,

Safe to assume that you are using a single stage paint product?

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

nickbukowy said:


> looking good


Thanks...

But the car is getting to the point where I'm going to quickly start losing fans :sly:

Let me explain:

See, I hate working with Bondo. In fact, ask SciroccoJim: I once told him I'd never buy another car that needed bodywork. I worked in a bodyshop before College and now I hate it.

Did I mention that I hate Bondo? I hate the way it's gooey when you first sand it. I hate the way it makes a mess when working with it, mixing it, etc...

Therefore, I use it sparingly. Much too sparingly.

As and example, the driver side hood gap where it meets the cowl isn't perfect. It'll have to do, because I ufcked with it as long as I'm willing to, and it wasn't long at all...

You won't see it when I drive by at 60mph, so that's that 

There: now y'all know I'm not the industrious perfectionist I try to appear to be 

Edit: Sorry Dan: yeah it's single stage, appropriate IMO for a non-metallic colored car from the 80's.


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

I know I am late to the punch, but I've been opcorn: this thread.

Great work!


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Thanks...
> 
> But the car is getting to the point where I'm going to quickly start losing fans :sly:
> _
> ...


Ah, but I think your definition of perfection is probably different than most, so there will still be many fans. I think you'll only lose Jim. :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> I think your definition of perfection is probably different than most


I don't think so: "Perfect" either is, or it isn't.

But I'll admit my definition of "good enough" may be different than most...

...but when it comes to Bondo work, my definition of "good enough" is VERY loose


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alright, the cowl's painted, which marks completion of the first little bit that will be seen with the car on the ground with the hood closed :










Also, looky what came in the mail :thumbup::










It cost *cough* *gasp* dollars, but it's the real thing and it's the best way I can think of to protect the inside of my new floor beams and rear arches.

It has an extension and I'll make a fixture so I can spray in any direction while my tip is in a cavity and also withdraw my tube as I spray :sly:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> I don't think so: "Perfect" either is, or it isn't.


Not according to most VWvortex "for sale" ads I have read... :laugh:


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## JJ2K1 (Apr 10, 2003)

Wow what a treat today. Haven't visited the scirocco forum for a month and I stump on this gem!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks,

I got the rear of the car painted, didn't spend much time on it except for the strip of metal that will show below the tail lights, the hatch jamb, and the strip of metal along the bottom of the hatch opens (where the sticker is):




























Next is the roof.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Fresh tornado red always looks so pretty. Eric, you are _almost_ making me miss my Mk2...


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

echassin said:


> It cost *cough* *gasp* dollars, but it's the real thing and it's the best way I can think of to protect the inside of my new floor beams and rear arches.
> 
> It has an extension and I'll make a fixture so I can spray in any direction while my tip is in a cavity and also withdraw my tube as I spray :sly:


Having that much fun always costs lots of dollars especially when doing things as you say! The cost alone is grounds to film it in action


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

Holly mid night oil. 
i am happy to see that ypu caught the rust before it 
Ate the scirocco. 

Post took forever:via droid.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today I had one of those awesome days we all get once in a while. 

By "awesome", I mean "sucka$$" 

My ten year old brought home the sniffles a few days ago and I'm happy to report that his immune system quickly handled the situation so that he didn't miss a beat. 

He did, however, manage to significantly strengthen the strain before passing it on to me, so that today I'm completely listless 

I was able to drag my a$$ out of bed long enough to buy a can of undercoating to protect the new gas tank, and the great news is that one can covers 90% of one tank :facepalm:: 










I didn't feel like driving anymore so I filled in the one ding on the roof and thoroughly checked the rest of the roof in anticipation of paint, whenever I can stand up longer: 










Anyhoo, there's always folks worse off, nothing tragic here, but that's all I did. Usually these bugs last me a few days, we'll see. 

Back to bed *yawn*


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Ya me too! Sucks! No time to be sick, summer is around the corner and Rocco's must roll!


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

Wow,looking great.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks 

I tried unsuccessfully to sleep off this darn bug and finally figured I might as well be in the garage doing something. 

I also went to Pepboys to buy more undercoating to finish the tank: 










The result seems pretty sturdy and I expect in better than what was on there to begin with, namely nothing :sly: 

I sprayed the left overs into the frame rail cavities (waste not, want not): 










I've never bothered to spray anything in those before, I like the result. Before doing it, I gave the cavities a quick vacuum, looked for any rust, and that was it. The undercoating mixed nicely with any residual dirt and Cosmoline and produced a goo that should be every bit as good as Cosmoline, but it's black so it looks better IMO. 

I also mustered enough energy to spray the roof, and I'm pretty happy with the result: 










I won't have to wet sand it, but it will need to be buffed because half the dirt in our neighborhood is in the paint (the other half is on my boys). Kudos to those shade-tree painters who go the extra mile to make a paint booth :thumbup: 

I'm beat, see y'all.


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## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> ......I sprayed the left overs into the frame rail cavities (waste not, want not):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Those turned out pretty good, I might "borrow" that idea. 



echassin said:


> ......Kudos to those shade-tree painters who go the extra mile to make a paint booth :thumbup:


 
Yeah, we'll see out that ends up. 
-Dan


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## Rocco.loco (Nov 1, 2003)

Great build thread with great pics!!! 
Gotta replace my gas lines and brake lines, so saved your pics of them.....like a tutorial:beer:


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

echassin said:


> I won't have to wet sand it


 Don't for a second think I know what I'm talking about here...this is purely based on the paint jobs I've been watching happen/trying to help with where I can for the past 2 years, but why wouldn't you? From what I've seen, a *dry* sand with *3M* paper after paint (before buff, obviously) turns a shade tree paintjob into a _beyond_ professional job. 

Maybe it's a difference between single stage and base/clear, but if not, I HIGHLY recommend it. The difference in quality is simply amazing.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

veedubtek said:


> why wouldn't you?


 Lazy . You're right, obviously. I will once the paint is good and hard. 

The paint did flow to a nice even gloss, so barring the flecks of dust, it has that factory texture. 

Now that I can open the garage door, here's how it is in good light: 










I was thinking 1500 wet sand before buffing, but what's this "dry" sanding you speak of? I've never heard of doing that on a paint job.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

echassin said:


> but what's this "dry" sanding you speak of? I've never heard of doing that on a paint job.


 LOL. Me either man, trust me. I questioned it about 429,000 times before I saw it in action. My painter dry sands every paint job, but he swears it HAS to be 3M paper. I wanna say with 1500 grit, but I can doublecheck on that. The result is amazing.


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## rocco82 (Nov 28, 2003)

Two of my friends and I painted 3 cars in my buddies home garage with near show quality results. We cleaned the garage floor really well, then draped plastic around all the walls. Closed the garage door on top of a box fan and sealed off the remaining opening. Final step was to wet the floor down to keep dust from coming off the floor. Presto: instant paint booth. Worked great! 

Ps... Awesome work by the way. When you finish this one I will drop off my 82 mk2 and just leave it there for a little while. I'll come back several months later and see what it looks like. Just send me a monthly bill.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today I got the quarters smoothed and pretty much ready for primer before running out of steam: 



















The idea of sanding the entirety of both panels, cleaning everything spotless, taping off the entire car, mixing the primer, spraying the primer, and cleaning up just seemed insurmountable... 

...so I'm gonna soak in a hot bath and take a nap; the primer will wait for another day, maybe after work tomorrow if I feel better.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Eric, not sure if you posted what your compressor/water trap/spray gun is yet but can you enlighten us please?!


Post enhanced with free VIP posting status.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The compressor is a Husky, I'm not sure which one but it's as big as I am and will run anything easily. 

The filter/water trap is from Home Depot and just has a little faucet on the bottom to drain water (the compressor has one too). I'm not using any dissicant type water trap. 

For primer I'm using a $50 siphon feed gun. 

And for paint I'm using a HVLP gun, but I hesitate to admit that it also was $50 , but I don't need a $250 gun to incorporate dust into my paint job  

As you can see I am unwilling to build any kind of booth or even empty the garage and line the walls with plastic... 

...it's cheaper and easier to keep a large stash of 1500 paper .


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Are you going to mod the rear arches to clear wider wheels, maybe roll or cut down the inner lip?


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

You continue to do that car proud Eric, good work sir. :thumbup: 

With that being said I have a question that was spurned on by this photo: 










The sheetmetal looks unusually thick back there; are you sure that this isn't one of those ultra-rare 16v's that was converted from dual-engine back to single engine status to meet the racing requirements of the IRA?


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ziggirocco said:


> Are you going to mod the rear arches to clear wider wheels, maybe roll or cut down the inner lip?


 The inner lip consists only of a piece of 1/8" welding rod, and the final result looks just like a rolled fender, except there's no overlapping metal to trap moisture :thumbup: 

That being said, when I glue the kit on, the appearance will be that there's a lip, but it won't rub on 195's. 

Paul: Yes, this car was actually one of those rare race cars, but it was converted back to stock while still on the Wolfsburg assembly line :laugh: When I'm done I'll let you have it for one mm million dollars *holds pinky to corner of mouth*.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> Paul: Yes, this car was actually one of those rare race cars, but it was converted back to stock while still on the Wolfsburg assembly line :laugh:


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

Congrats Eric! 

I get sent out of town for work on a heavier than usual travel schedule and come home to find this thread. 

You are making me look bad here, I have had my project Scirocco for over a year, actually started working on it January 2012. I went like heck for the first 2 months and now I haven't touched it in 2 months... Plus you are doing your own bodywork? I am just hoping to get mine out to paint in the next 6 weeks. 

I am going to play the "I have too many vehicles to keep running" card. With 8 titled and plated vehicles and one project Scirocco, not to mention the occasional family requests and making sure the GF's car is up to snuff... 

I did update the interior on my 81 Scirocco S, have been doing daily driver maintenance and repairs to the three vehicles in my GM line-up at home and then got the silly idea to buy a pair of Honda Reflex 250CC scooters. I have spent my recent "spare time" on the Replex scooters, which have needed full fluid and tune type maintenance, clean & wax plus tires that are on backorder. 

My recent coup is wheel refinish jobs that include a set of original MK1 Scirocco wheels. I pick them up today and will post some photos over in my Audi 4000 thread as that is where they are going. I also need to get photos up of the BBS RAs I just had refinished for my Black 80 Scirocco project. 

Perhaps I need to just shut up about all the work I need to get done and let you get back to your project and stop hi-jacking your thread, sorry. 

I do have a paint question and I probably missed the answer in the read somewhere, after all there are 7 pages now. Are you using single stage acrylic enamel or a more modern base coat clear coat paint? 

At this speed you will be driving the car to Ciny 2012! Keep up the good work and I am now subscribed to the thread. 

I will keep watching with bait for breath. Wait, no, that is bated breath  Look forward to seeing you at Cincy. 

Stephen


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for checking in Stephen, although you've used up the allowed number of characters you can type and now you have to go work on your car . The paint is PPG JE single stage urethane ala 1980's. When you have a growth arrest problem like I do, everything is ala 1980s :what: but at least I'm using a HVLP spray gun which didn't exist back when I worked at the body shop (nor did paint booths IIRC). 

Today I scuffed the entirety of the quarters and the door jams, here it is mid process when one of my finger tips wore through and started to bleed (seriously ): 










Then I got to gift wrap the entire car, even the bottom, another mind-numbing task I hate, but it's gotta be done, since everything else is already painted: 










Then I got a layer of primer on and sanded to 120, and I have another layer of primer over that which is drying (shrinking) overnight: 










Here's the arch that had all the gaping holes in it, all steel : 










A little tweaking at the front corner to fake the Schutz texture, and I'm calling it done. 

I'll block sand at 220 tomorrow, spray one more layer, block it at 320 in the afternoon, and maybe shoot paint? We'll see. Certainly painted by the end of the week no matter how much I tweak stuff at this point


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

opcorn::beer:


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## standard125r (Jul 15, 2004)

Eric, Impressive as usual! Hoping to be back that way at some point.


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## cholland_ (Apr 12, 2006)

echassin said:


> Paul: Yes, this car was actually one of those rare race cars, but it was converted back to stock while still on the Wolfsburg assembly line :laugh:


 Even more rare! This must be one of the only 42 mk2 Scirocco's that was built in Wolfsburg and not Osnabruck! I don't have any documents to prove it, but this guy under a bridge who sold me a fake Rolex and half a pound of crack told me that it happened, so it's gotta be legit.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

cholland_ said:


> Even more rare! This must be one of the only 42 mk2 Scirocco's that was built in Wolfsburg and not Osnabruck! I don't have any documents to prove it, but this guy under a bridge who sold me a fake Rolex and half a pound of crack told me that it happened, so it's gotta be legit.


 Oops... 

Yes. Osnabruck, of course


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

Eric, 

How many hours do you have in the prep and paint work and how many hours do you estimate for the total paint job? Not counting welding, fab, dis-assembly, re-assembly, etc. 

Stephen


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## upoo2 (Dec 7, 2005)

Stop by my place and finish my bodywork and paint on my 88 T-red 16V please! Thanks


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

sgjii said:


> Eric,
> 
> How many hours do you have in the prep and paint work and how many hours do you estimate for the total paint job? Not counting welding, fab, dis-assembly, re-assembly, etc.
> 
> Stephen


 Hard to say, 5 hours per day for 6 weeks, 200 hours? A lot that was cleaning, which counts as bodywork IMO (prep). A pro could do better faster, but I wanna do it myself  

Anyhoo, the shell is red: 























































Much wetsanding and buffing to do yet, but I'm satisfied so far. The paint has hardener but I'll wait a bit to be sure all of the solvents are gone before polishing anything. 

I did get black onto the B-pillars in the meantime: 










Tomorrow I plan on getting Cosmoline into the beams and inside the quarters. I fear that'll take a lot of time because I want to be thorough yet not make any visible mess . Another one of those mind-numbing steps that doesn't show yet is necessary.


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

looking good man :thumbup: 

seeing your progress has been getting me inspired to try and finish up the body work on my car and get it ready for paint


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

Looks pretty good dude! I was gonna say this:



echassin said:


> Much wetsanding and buffing to do yet...


 ...but you beat me to it lol.


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2005)

looking great - is this your first full paintjob that you've sprayed yourself?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> is this your first full paintjob that you've sprayed yourself?


 No. Why, does it look like it :laugh:? 

I worked in a body shop 30 years ago, but things were very different then. We sprayed lacquer color with lacquer clear over it, all in open air and with siphon feed guns. Very little skill required because everything got wet sanded and polished, and it dried fast so it was easy to fix mistakes, remove a fleck of dirt, etc... 

HVLP, hardened enamel, having to be careful of dirt, booths, etc... are all all new to me. 

I put on a lot of paint so hopefully there's plenty to wetsand with impunity  

Today I took it easy but still got a few things done. The Cosmoline worked great. I made a little fixture so I could aim the tip and slide the tip in or out depending on the need: 



















The result was gratifying. I filled the beams and got Cosmoline to drip from all the little holes in the beam, even the little one way back behind the hard lines (There's a drip where my finger is pointing): 










I also did the arches where I welded the inner skin to the outer skin: 





































Then, to add a little levity to the day, I made a tag to replace the code tag on the rad support that disintegrated when I removed it. I decided to put the color code on it: 










I also painted the rivet underneath to avoid a rust source: 










The tag is Lexan with vinyl characters, all painted after rivetting so it looks factory "plausible"  

I like it, so that's that. 

I think I'll sand and buff over the weekend and I'll check in after that IF I don't need to respray it all :sly:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I got a box of 1200 DA paper and tried the dry sanding trick, and it works for sure. Much less messy than wet sanding. I didn't take the paint all the way smooth, just enough to look as good as a Kia on a dealer lot : 



















I'll sand and polish more after the paint is good and hard, in a few weeks maybe, but for now the shell is done enough to start bolting stuff to it. 

Unfortunately, I don't have anything yet that's ready to bolt on  It's all broken, worn, crusty, or just filthy.


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## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

I :heart: this thread. You do amazing work, and make it look SO easy.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Eric, you have my upmost respect; 
If I can hold a tad of your passion in my post, my job is done. 
Been there, done that


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Hot damn! Subscribed.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Kind words of encouragement are always appreciated, thank you! 

Today I got some of the first parts ready to put on the car, namely the heatshield and the tank. 

The heatshield got just enough love to look decent in pictures, mostly cleaning, straightening, and a mist of engine silver to even the tones, but not so much it could easily peel: 










Installed: 










I didn't use the stock steel speednuts, but rather firm plastic donuts I made with the holes slightly undersized, so that the plastic deforms when hitting them home and holds tight without damaging the paint/seamsealer on the mounting posts :thumbup: 

I spent quite a bit of time on the tank even though I'd already sealed the pinch weld and covered the tank with two coats of undercoating. I'll install the thing tomorrow to let everything dry well. 

The sender and transfer pump are serviceable, the new gasket came with the tank :thumbup:: 










New foam strips in the same areas as the old tank, sender and transfer pump installed, and also header tank and associated hoses, all covered with Cosmoline where paint got gouged pushing various clips into position: 










Bottom of the tank with heatshield, along with all the bits needed to complete the job: 










The heatshield took time because I had to strip it of rust, dirt, and undercoating, plus it needed new mounting feet fabbed and welded on. I painted it with rust converter and this BBQ paint I used on our stove grills and which holds up great. Any metal to metal contact is touched up with paint and covered with Cosmoline. 

Finally, I got the gravity valve worked out so no fasteners will penetrate the wheelwell steel and cause rust again: 










The valve sits snug in the foam and the foam is glued to the wheelwell for a total seal. I'll glue the plastic hose cover to the bottom of the foam, again for a total seal, except the bottom edge so any water that manages to snake in can drain out easily. 

Not sure what's next, gotta rummage around for a part that catches my interest, maybe the rack?


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## [email protected] (Apr 12, 2005)

echassin said:


> No. Why, does it look like it :laugh:?


 not at all, i'm actually very impressed, but the fact that the car was in your garage i assumed either you or a buddy sprayed it in your garage. Nice job.

I've sprayed a few cars in my time and i can tell you, its no easy thing to do, its an art - one i haven't quite mastered yet


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks, I wouldn't say I'm "impressed" with my paintjob, certainly I'm satisfied. Even with minimal preliminary sanding and buffing, it looks as good as what comes off many dealer lots. 

More hours should only improve things assuming I don't sand or burn through anywhere. But even if I do, it'll just get touched up, no respraying. I'm building this one to drive, even on salted roads, so Beauty Queen is not the objective. 

Last night I got the tank and associated plumbing installed, as well as the plastic cover that covers everything in the wheelwell. No pics yet because I glued the cover into position and held it there overnight with a floorjack and pieces of wood. 

I'll post some pics of it after work today, and I think I'll start making a "new and improved" fuel pump bracket.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

OK, as promised, here are pics of the tank and associated plumbing: 




























I also got some niggly things done under the car, first up that hanger that holds the exhaust in front of the shifter: 










Then I spent some time making a new fuel pump bracket, the old one was only flakes of rust in the vague shape of a bracket: 










The new one is made of narrow strips to avoid trapping water (the original is a "tub" :facepalm: 










The soft mounts are left over from an old RC plane I had a while ago. 

Test fit looks good: 










Fuel system parts all primed and painted: 










I'd love it if someone can locate a $10 knockoff of this hose that goes from the accumulator to the main fuel hard line, I'd like to avoid $55 for the real thing if possible: 










If y'all don't know where I can get a cheaper one, I may just JB weld the old one  

JK. Bye :wave:


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Any shop that works with hydraulic equipment parts should be able to make a new one for you for fairly cheap, way less than $55 at least


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## cholland_ (Apr 12, 2006)

I've used a lot of mk1autohaus' fuel line stuff in my mk2. It's top notch stuff. 

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/VW-Scirocco-...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item53e731332c


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

cholland_ said:


> I've used a lot of mk1autohaus' fuel line stuff in my mk2.


 That's the $55 version, I don't need top notch for this car... 

cuz it's a Mk2  

I don't know of any hydraulic shops off hand, but I will ask around. 

I'd still prefer a "Chinese $10" version from a megastore or megawarehouse, if anyone knows of one.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

*
Sir!, I salute You!*


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> That's the $55 version, I don't need top notch for this car...
> 
> cuz it's a Mk2
> 
> I don't know of any hydraulic shops off hand, but I will ask around.


 BURN!!  

My local NAPA with machine shop does this sort of stuff. You might check them out... The meaner the NAPA, the more they'll know!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Meh. For the trouble of having one made and hoping it fits right, I guess I'll splurge. I was just hoping I'd missed an alternative. 

I got done at work early so I was able to hang the pump and accumulator from the bottom of the car: 










There's a lot going on in a small space, but I was able to tweak everything so the pump swings comfortably from its soft mounts without hitting anything :thumbup:. I might make a pigtail so the pump leads stay on the pump and feed into an extra plug that's easier to reach. We'll see. 

Although all the brackets and fasteners are painted, I covered them with Cosmoline to protect any nicks. Neat stuff, I think it's wax with a surfactant and a foaming agent, so it covers intricate parts thoroughly even without aiming in all directions. It foams up and penetrates like WD40 but leaves the waxy coating we're all familiar with. 

Hmm, what's next?


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Meh. For the trouble of having one made and hoping it fits right, I guess I'll splurge. I was just hoping I'd missed an alternative.
> 
> I got done at work early so I was able to hang the pump and accumulator from the bottom of the car:
> 
> ...


 This fuel pump bracket reengineering is TOP NOTCH. I believe one corner of my old 16V bracket was held in place with a zip tie. And that was after I replaced the pump.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Awesome thread is awesome. :thumbup::beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Merci Monsieur 

Today I got the steering rack decluttered, degreased. decrusted, modified to run manual, painted, and installed on the car: 










One of the tie rod assemblies and its boot are good aftermarket pieces so I just cleaned them, painted as needed, and installed them: 










The other tie rod assembly and its boot only vaguely resemble car parts, are completely spent, and will need to be replaced. 

I think I'll work on the pedals tomorrow, but for now, I hafta cut the grass. 

Aloha.


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## 868valver (Nov 3, 2009)

> I'm building this one to drive, even on salted roads, so Beauty Queen is not the objective.


 I'm having a very hard time believing this^^^That S2 is going to be cherry!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

It'll be cherry enough as one gets a quick glance at it going by 

Everything's getting refinished to hopefully make the thing last through the winters here, but it does make things look good too 

Progress is a bit slower because every part that goes on the car starts out crusty and filthy, and generally in disrepair...

...like the shifter:










Anyway, I got a bunch of stuff done, first the steering column U-joints and the boot:










The boot isn't minty but it's serviceable and since it doesn't move at all during use, I thing it'll last quite a bit longer.

Then the happy pedal with new cable retainer:










Then the pedal assembly, the clutch tube is crack-free :thumbup::




























Lastly, the shifter:




























I modded the undercar shifter boot, the one that always rips, costs a fortune to replace, and rips again :facepalm:. I cut the torn accordian from the old boot, enlarged the resulting hole, and stuffed in an extra tie rod boot. I'm the man :










I realize some may question this, but I elected to make the shift rod hole big enough that the accordian does not follow the rod except for sideways motion. I hope there's minimal resulting strain on the boot and that it will last. Some dirt will work its way into the boot, but I hope minimal.

Now I'm sorry to say that the electrical system is next (or soon, at least), and I'm not looking forward to that tedium...

...so y'all should anticipate stall tactics on my part .

Edit: tomorrow I'm putting in the first big parts orders, so I thought now would be a good time to add up where I'm at. Some people find money discussions distasteful, if that applies, avert your ears . 

Anyhoo, here goes:

Car $500, gas to go get it $200, tiptissery $50, gas tank $150, rattlecans $25, faceshield $15, paint tools $150, paint supplies $100, Cosmoline $30, Paint and supplies $500, undercoating $20, Buffer and supplies $150.

Subtotal $1890, and I have a still largely bare shell :screwy:. Results will vary depending on what you do or don't already have for spare parts and tools, but it's a good ballpark figure. It is DEFINITELY more cost-effective to buy a creampuff, but we all already knew that


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looking good! No matter what, make sure you put all new bushings in the shifter assembly!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Yeah, I had a set already.

The little task for the day was installing the sunroof drain pipes.

The big task was readying the harnesses for installation,

Engine harness:










"The rest of it":










If it looks a little thin, it is. Here's what's going on the "delete" pile:










Speaking of the delete pile, here how big it is so far:










The car will have what it takes to go, stop, be fully street legal, and make heat in winter. That's it. Therefore, it'll have stuff like license plate lights, but nothing like glovebox lights.

I spent quite some time unwrapping the harnesses to remove any un-needed wires, then rewrapping. Tomorrow I'll stuff it all into the shell.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

"Still lurks in silence" in awe, looks at the work, and says, oh yes, I recall...
Eric, many stand in silence, but we all want to cheer!

Fred


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## Blaines_Rocco (Nov 8, 2011)

Nice job on the wiring! I hope to some day do much the same.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you, gentlemen.

Freddy, did you get my PM? I need one of them steering column collars for this thing, if you could bring one more to Cincy, perty pleeze, $$$.

Got good time on the car today,

Electrical system is in:










You can see how little is left. The one harness that goes to the back runs the pumps, the tailights, the license lights, and the defogger. That's it.

The ground strap:










SciroccoJim taught me the trick of vinegar and baking soda, makes the strap like new .

Got the pumps buttoned up, the external pump is wired too, with good rubber boots to keep the contacts dry:



















For some reason putting the cover over the sending unit felt REALLY good, like closure :thumbup:

The engine bay all wired:










I didn't want to chase down a one-piece speedo cable, but it turns out it's easy to "make" one. Take the box apart, cut out the cable mounts and discard the rest:










Take a bit of steel tube out of your "I might need that someday" drawer, trim it, jam the cable mounts into it, JB Weld it all together, paint it up, and here's whachoo get:



















It's all the way on the right in the pic, along with the clutch cable in the middle and the throttle cable on the left.

Finally the electronics:










...and it's time to go out for Chinese food, yum.

Next big task is to get the gearbox rehabbed as needed, assemble and install the engine/gearbox, and see if the thing'll start after everything I did to it...


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Looks sick, I love the simplicity :thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

This might end up being the most efficient 16V build evAR. A massive amount of preparation to make it 4-season drivable, but not a single wire more than it needs to run. 

This continues to be an incredibly satisfying build thread. Bravo, Dr. E. :thumb up: :beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks, except for the A/C and the radio, which even I admit are things I'll occasionally miss, most of what I deleted are things we don't need at all:

Hand brake and seat belt warning lights, interior lighting (there's enough ambient light around here that I don't recall ever using the dome light, and certainly I don't need the trunk, the glovebox, the HVAC functions, and the lighter to each have their own bulb and wiring.

As far as oil temp or gauges like that, we'll see. None for now.

The car will basically be simple and lightweight like an early Rabbit was, but with all the performance upgrades we craved in the day: power, suspension and wheels, disc brakes, nice seats, etc..


----------



## Mean 'n Green86 (Dec 17, 2006)

this build is great and very motivating. i'm still amazed that you can pull so many wires and still have a running motor:thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Mean 'n Green86 said:


> i'm still amazed that you can pull so many wires and still have a running motor:thumbup:


Well, that remains to be seen...

Today we're gonna go goof off with the boys' uncle, but I did get the vacuum booster refinished and installed, along with the MC and the front brake lines:










I think next I'll clean and paint the gearbox. Final drive seals, input shaft seal and clutch disc should be here any day, then I can get the engine off the floor and out of the way, and put it where it belongs.


----------



## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup: Awesome progress on the project 

... at this rate this 16v will on road before Cincy this year


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

opcorn: 

:beer:


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

Love this thread. So much great information. Thank you!!!

Brendan


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## vw_Dru (Jul 25, 2006)

:thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

:heart:

My Mk1 Autohaus order arrived today :thumbup:

The hose that goes from the accumulator to the feed hard line:










I took the pic while it still looked perdy, now it's covered in Cosmoline.

I also got the bellhousing tin cleaned up, and pressed a new dipstick funnel into position:










Astute observers will note the small black ziptie on the funnel. I cracked the thing pushing on it, just like the old one. It's fully functional and I think it might happen again if I replace it again, plus it wasn't cheap, so there it is .

On a much grander scale, the car's done...

...well, maybe not QUITE done, but the new shift knob is installed:










I also got a replacement for that cover that goes on a 4-button steering wheel.

Finally, a funny story: my widowed neighbor normally keeps the S1 in her clean and spacious garage, but she's moving some stuff and didn't want to risk damaging it, so she asked that I take it home for a bit.

Now, I went over there to, you know, explain that there was another Scirocco in her spot, not to take it personally, it's not permanent, think of her as your younger sister, bla bla bla, but to no avail: dead battery. No start .

After some *****footing, we got her going with a jump and got her home, but you can see the glare in her eyes:










Sheesh. Women 

Anyhoo, I'll start on the gearbox tomorrow, and it looks like I might need to pick up a battery too...


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Would you consider getting a Caddy when you're done with the S2? I'd like to see what you could do with a Caddy. :grin:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> Would you consider getting a Caddy when you're done with the S2? I'd like to see what you could do with a Caddy. :grin:


Where the heck would I put it ?


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looks like you have room for one more.....


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

echassin said:


> Where the heck would I put it ?


Hey! If I can do this, (pics) I'm sure you can find a spot 

Shamless plug of some of my pics in your thread


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Michael Bee said:


> Would you consider getting a Caddy when you're done with the S2? I'd like to see what you could do with a Caddy. :grin:


I don't think Eric wants another American car. 

(I don't mean a Cadillac.)


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Maybe you're right Jim. He does have the Lexus.


----------



## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

sciroccojim said:


> I don't think Eric wants another American car.
> 
> (I don't mean a Cadillac.)



:laugh:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> She does have the Lexus.


FTFY


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

UPS tracking says the clutch, gearbox seals, engine mount, and other stuff will be here Friday, which means I can get the engine into the car over the weekend if I get the gearbox detailed ahead of time.

I usually do it with only brushes and gasoline, but this time I used a pressure washer to get things started, careful to thoroughly cover the speedo hole and reverse switch:










The radiator arrived, early non-overflow style, and it tucks away nice in some holes that apparently are made just for it :thumbup::










That was just a test fit, it's protected in the basement till I'm ready for it. I'll modify the shroud as needed so I can use the rad support bolt holes without changing the shell or the radiator itself.

I also stopped by the hardware store on the way home from work and was able to find decent fitting plugs for the A/C line delete and the door jam electrical harness deletes:



















Tomorrow after work I'll scrub the gearbox better and hopefully paint it, and work on some little bits Thursday and Friday in preparation for a weekend engine install. My older boy's best friend's dad is a total gearhead and can press the new engine mount in :thumbup:

Oh, I almost forgot: where can I get a new rear engine mount? The old one's "OK" but tired looking.


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Oh, I almost forgot: where can I get a new rear engine mount? The old one's "OK" but tired looking.


http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Scirocco/Transmission/143/1

Third one down, if the rear transmission/engine mount is what you are looking for.

:thumbup:


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

echassin said:


> Astute observers will note the small black ziptie on the funnel. I cracked the thing pushing on it, just like the old one. It's fully functional and I think it might happen again if I replace it again, plus it wasn't cheap, so there it is .


You can get new ones from GAP for $1.66 each. :thumbup: Great work btw.


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## sgjii (Nov 14, 2010)

*Rear engine/tranny mount*

Eric,

I have a spare, new polyurethane one. I ordered the full poly kit for my 1980 MK1 project, as it was the best deal for the suspension bushings but I had also ordered the new HD engine mount kit from MK1 Autohaus, which are the engine mounts I plan to use. For reference, the entire A1 chassis pro-thane kit can be had on Amazon.com for only $66.68 (part#22-2008)

I believe there is a difference between 8V & 16V for the passenger side engine mount and that difference is the angle the mount sets but the engine mount inserts from pro-thane kit fit both 8V & 16V.

I would be honored to Donate to the project if you think you want poly engine mounts and not OE rubber. I could get the engine mounts from my workshop tonight and ship tomorrow, which should be in time for your weekend engine install.

I also think I have a spare orange dipstick tube funnel too.

You would need to PM me the mailing address.

Stephen


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

No rush, if you're going to Cincy, we can meet up there?


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

id get a manual clutch cable while youre at it


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey,

I had to work late today, but I was able to get the gearbox totally degreased:










You can see how it stays dull like magnesium even when it's completely clean, so I taped everything off and misted it with aluminum colored engine paint:










In my experience, misting it produces a thin film that keeps the case from tarnishing, and won't peel much. I slathered some paint on the case bolts to keep them from rusting, which if your drivetrain isn't covered in oily grime, happens surprisingly fast (badly rusted bolts, that is).

Tomorrow I'll prepare all the engine mounts, and hardware needed to install the engine.


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

Good stuff. I always like when people do the detail stuff like this rather than just slap it together without thinking about how a coating like that will make things last longer. :thumbup:


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Have you considered a caustic aluminum cleaner? It will etch the case and "brighten" the aluminum. Lye works great on aluminum, as long as there isn't much magnesium in the mix.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Way back when I looked for something like that, I couldn't find any (nitric acid we had in a lab worked great...), so I used a misting of paint, it looked totally real, and it didn't tarnish again so I've kept doing it that way.

Actually, the first car I did that to was the GTI's gearbox, which you can examine in a few weeks :


----------



## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Yeah, you can't exactly buy nitric at the corner drugstore.


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

Eric, if you have time maybe you could explain a little more your degreasing "process" for stuff like that? You mention you use gasoline but I guess I just want to know the steps you take. I HATE doing stuff like that but it makes all the difference. I don't even like using a parts washer but it really needs to be done on things like this and it shows in the end!

Thanks!

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't have a parts washer because massive parts wouldn't fit, and little parts do fine in a pan.

I use a variety of brushes with gasoline to get stuff looking clean, then I do it again with degreaser for paint prep.

There's no magic to it, and the job does suck.

On the S1 and the GTI, I was super anal, no pressure washer, no molecule of dirt or grease left behind (like the gearbox case above). On my Cabby and this S2, which I consider drivers, I wasn't so meticulous.


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## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

echassin said:


> The radiator arrived, early non-overflow style, and it tucks away nice in some holes that apparently are made just for it :thumbup::


Assuming you will be moving the alternator to the position formerly occupied by the a/c compressor? If not, you'll have an interference issue with the alternator and the upper radiator hose.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Any build threads on the Gti? S1?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

vwdaun said:


> Assuming you will be moving the alternator to the position formerly occupied by the a/c compressor? If not, you'll have an interference issue with the alternator and the upper radiator hose.


Oh. Uh, I knew that. I was just testing you guys to see if YOU knew that  :facepalm:

I spent an hour cutting down the old bracket, leaving the alternator in its original location 

Ideas/suggestions/pictures on how to mount the alternator?

@Ziggy: the GTI and the S1 have do have threads, but I don't know how to link them using an IPad. You can use the "threads started by user" function to get to them, they both start with "Christmas". They're "refurb" threads more than anything else.


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## GTIanz (Feb 1, 2012)

These are the welds of a surgeon...... yikes!

Just teasing. I couldn't do any better.

Love what you are doing and appreciate that you have shared this process with the rest of us. Someday, I hope to take on a similar project.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The welds aren't professional for sure, but I have a friend who's a certified medical welder (his welds look like things are sweated together, with no grinding), and I had him confirm my welds are adequate. He didn't offer me a job, but he said I did fine .

I mocked up the alternator setup I envisionned in order to take some more measurements:



















Everything will be cleaned up when the time comes, but to me it looks like I think this'll clear the radiator completely by placing the alternator on a line that falls entirely lateral to the radiator, and behind it, both by a nominal amount. The intake clears by about 1/2" even with the alternator all the way back in its adjustment slot.

Any concerns as is?


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

It does look like there could be an issue with the upper radiator hose.

The non A/C bracket drops the alt down by the water pump, completely out of the way.

I didn't drive my car today or I could get you a pic.

Of course, you could try it as-is, if it doesn't work find the non A/C bracket then.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

I do have this pic. It isn't the best but shows the arrangement with the non a/c bracket and early
style radiator.


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

My $0.02 is that a belt span that far is going to cause trouble.

Btw, I have a few different alt brackets here, in case there's one you need.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Big day today, lots of work done.

I got the water pump cleaned up and installed:










Then some parts arrived, first order was to get the other tie rod assembly and its boot on:










New input shaft seal. The old one was fine, so I'm sure this one will leak :










Sachs clutch:










Engine and gearbox mated:










Engine in:










Rear mount installed (BTW, I had a spare in my "I have so much isht I don't even know what I have anymore" drawer:










Starter and front mount installed:










Then I got tired so I did some little stuff like the hood rod and a new retainer for it, and the other pedal pad:










Then I got up the nerve to see how the alternator fits:










No problem: all the way up it still clears the hood, all the way down it's still 1/2" from any part of the radiator. I felt great until I came on here and saw that the belt span might be too long . I'll try it as is, but I appreciate the standing offer for alternative alternator brackets (try saying THAT 10 times fast!)

I'm beat, I'm gonna go goof off with the rascals.


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

There is a simple fix for your alternator problem, see the bracket here above your water pump?










On the left side of the bracket, there is a freeze plug where the hole would be, knock it out, install an early style alternator bushing in there (84 and earlier mk1s have them i think), then get an 8v alternator and lower mounting bolt, then just just use your noodle and you'll figure out the upper bracket, you can purchase an OEM non AC non PS belt to boot.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Well if I'd known you were putting the engine in today I wouldn't have dug up a pic.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Tell you what: to make it up to you, I'll let you send me that non A/C bracket.

You're welcome


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Oh, sorry: yes, I thought about copying my GTI, but I'd prefer to use what I have if possible.

If the long belt is a problem, I'll first try to find a non A/C bracket, and failing that, copy my GTI using a new alternator that'll fit that little bracket.


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## GTIanz (Feb 1, 2012)

You can be honest.

You have the "Overhauled" team working for you. :laugh:


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

I hope you 
will be doing that fancy silver painting on the alternator too! ;p


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Hey, does anyone have contact info for the guy (Peter?) who sells the TT exhausts at 10% off TT's price?

Thanks in advance :thumbup:


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

[email protected]
website-thescirocco.com


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

That's him, thanks!

Today was frustrating because I took about 2 hours to get the old oxygen sensor out. I was about to cut out the whole thing and weld in a new bung when it got the hint and yielded.

Then I cleaned up the pipe and painted it with the same stuff I used on our stove's iron grids (tough stuff).

Before:










After:










That's all I got done today. By the time I got the sensor out and the pipe cleaned up and painted I was fed up and went shopping with the Mater Familias.

One thing I thought was funny was the pipe itself:










Astute observers will note that this is one of those special High Flow catalytic converters with the invisible insides. I was actually gonna "accidentally" drop a heavy steel pipe into the converter [repeatedly] until i achieved this result, but it looks like someone got to it first 

Now I have to buy another pipe, because to use this one would be illegal, and it because it would be unconscionable to add even in any small way to the mess that BP made in the Gulf.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

You should look into a high flow universal cat (manga flow or other) , that is what I am going to do.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today is Mother's Day, but I had this evil plan that worked perfectly, so I was able to sleal some time for the car: I grilled huge Ribeyes, bought some potato salad and cole slaw to go with them, and a bunch of booze, and blueberry pie, and now they're all semi-comatose. Tee hee .

So I got the shifter on and adjusted. It works nice, I can feel it pop into each gear easily:










And I got the lower intake cleaned up, painted and installed:










I also ordered a new knock sensor, and new oxygen sensor, and a TT 2.25 SS/Borla.

For those of you who don't mind such discussions, we're at $3076, and it's still a non-running shell .

Anyhoo, I have a busy work week ahead, but next is all the little stuff that bolts to the block.

Happy Mother's Day :wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The little tidbits that fill up the engine bay don't make for exciting photography, but it's all isht that needs to be done one painful bit at a time.

So today I got the breather, the oil filter flange, the front water jacket, all the sensors, and the block's distributor delete fitting cleaned up, painted, and installed:










The filter's on and full of oil, and I just realized I may have trouble squeezing the hard cooalnt hose behind it :facepalm: We'll see...

More bits tomorrow after work.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

No oil cooler anymore??


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

ziggirocco said:


> No oil cooler anymore??


I ran my 8v without an oil cooler for a while. Never had a single problem with oil temperature, no matter how hard I beat on it (even driving up Pikes Peak)

If you run a synthetic oil, then it doesn't even matter if you overheat the oil - it doesn't break down immediately like regular oil does. I run Castrol EDGE with Syntec 5W-40

The key is simplicity. Those radiator hoses that go to the cooler are expensive, and blow a lot. Two big o-rings instead of one for oil to leak out of. Plus the cooler itself provides a place for oil and coolant to intermix if there is a problem.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Timbo nailed it. The way I drive an oil cooler is useless complexity.

My Cabby ran a turbo for years without one. The occasional full boost pull was never enough to change the oil temperature.

Now, my GTI does get hot after a while on the highway because of the gearing...

...But they all did back in the day...

...and no harm ever came of it.

So that's that


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

yup, I built an ABA caddy a couple years ago, exact same way and logic. Except, it's better to use the Passat AEB water pump as it gets rid of the water outlet for the oil cooler. Easier to simplify the cooling system that way. :thumbup:


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

veedubtek said:


> Except, it's better to use the Passat AEB water pump as it gets rid of the water outlet for the oil cooler. Easier to simplify the cooling system that way. :thumbup:


Wow - that's a neat bit of info!


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

I wish you were my doctor, Eric!

Jeeze.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

veedubtek said:


> yup, I built an ABA caddy a couple years ago, exact same way and logic. Except, it's better to use the Passat AEB water pump as it gets rid of the water outlet for the oil cooler. Easier to simplify the cooling system that way. :thumbup:


What years did the AEB come on? That's the early 1.8T, right? 98/99?

And, can you use it on most 1.6/1.7/1.8 blocks?

Edit:

Looks like 1998-2000, AEB or ATW.

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Passat/Cooling/163/6


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Jim, in this case the car doesn't do the photos justice 

Can y'all clarify what you mean? My water pump looks the same as any others I've had on cars with no oil cooler, three outlets, that is.


----------



## tex_the_t_rex (Jun 6, 2003)

The difference is with the water pump housing.

The AEB one only has one outlet

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Passat/Cooling/163/6

The 'standard' 16V one has two outlets

http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Scirocco/Cooling/163/3

That way you don't have to block one off to run without an oil cooler.


This project is coming together AMAZING. Don't sell yourself short, you're doing a huge amount of work, and it's really turning out great!

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## glidrew (Jul 25, 2002)

^^ looks like just one outlet


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Sure, I can see the picture, but every Mk1 I've ever owned has had three outlets, and none of them had oil coolers .

It seems to me the pump deletes the steel heater line?

I'm using my pump anyways, but I was just curious.

Back to the engine bay, today I got the radiator in along with some of the coolant hoses, and the cold start valve and breather hose:



















Here's where the "delete" pile is at:










I think I'll weigh the pile when I'm done, so I'm only putting deleted stuff on it. Anything that's being replaced, like the radiator, won't go on the pile.

More boring bits tomorrow


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Oh wait, I forgot about the coolant pipe, I did that too.

At first I was all like, hey, I don't need a bunch of the outlets on the pipe, so I think I'll meticulously cut them off and fashion perfectly fitting patches that I'd weld into position, grind down, etc...

And then I was all like "ufck that isht", so I just pounded them flat and welded them shut:










and it's Miller tiiiiime...

...well, Mike's Hard Lemonade, but you get the point.


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

No diet coke?????? 

Whaa?


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> and it's Miller tiiiiime...
> 
> ...well, Mike's Hard Lemonade, but you get the point.


This might be the first post I take issue with. opcorn: :laugh: :beer:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Well, I guess sometimes I'm too wild even for this crowd . That's how I roll.

Actually, my problem with beer is of my own making. Ever since college, beer smells like puke to me...

":beer:"


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

echassin said:


> Ever since college, beer smells like puke to me...
> 
> ":beer:"


Ya don't say???


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

The detail oh the detail :thumbup:


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

echassin said:


> Sure, I can see the picture, but every Mk1 I've ever owned has had three outlets, and none of them had oil coolers .
> 
> It seems to me the pump deletes the steel heater line?



When I did mine with the ABA, I still ran the steel heater line, I got rid of the line that went to the upper hose.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

veedubtek said:


> I got rid of the line that went to the upper hose.


Huh, you learn something every day. I thought that upper hose was critical. What did you do with the front water jacket, just block it off with a plate?


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

echassin said:


> Huh, you learn something every day. I thought that upper hose was critical. What did you do with the front water jacket, just block it off with a plate?



nah, ABA doesn't have an outlet there. Since it was all custom, I ran a solid upper hose all the way around to the flange on the side of the head. Flange and metal pipe fed heater core. Very simple system, and worked great.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

Dont' you need a bypass for before the thermostat opens though?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I guess you could leave the thermostat out and coolant would always flow.

Meh. The pump that's on the car is fine.

Today I wasn't feeling very ambitious, so I kept things light.

The cold start valve got a coat of gold paint= +10 horsepower :










I made some radiator brackets and a cover that the shroud will hold in position, along with some weatherstrip under the rad support:










And I took apart the heater box, which I don't do on low mileage cars, but at 190,000 miles, I figured this ine would be pretty nasty.

Indeed:










The good bits:










The blower motor has a lot of brush life left, so I'll clean, lube it, and use it (the blower motor you perverts).

More for the delete pile:










Tomorrow after work I'll reassemble the heater box and hopefully install it. Interior stuff may seem premature but I'd like the engine running by Memorial Day and I need the core hooked up before adding coolant.


----------



## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

scirocco*joe said:


> This might be the first post I take issue with. opcorn: :laugh: :beer:


You go enjoy your beer. Mike & I will stick with the lemonade. (MMmmmm, Mike's hard cranberry lemonade.....)


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> The cold start valve got a coat of gold paint= +10 horsepower :


Gold paint! You're gonna make sciroccojim upset!


----------



## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

TheTimob said:


> Gold paint! You're gonna make sciroccojim upset!


----------



## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

TheTimob said:


> Gold paint! You're gonna make sciroccojim upset!


:what: ..what happened to the perfect Red/silver/black thing you had going? Gold....sheessh....


*refuses to read this thread until that abomination has been painted silver* 

:facepalm:






:heart:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

OK. I have to admit that sometimes I have trouble discerning the subtle cues that are sometimes lost in written communication.

So I have to ask:

The gold's good, right?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I got home from work early, went for Sushi lunch with the wife unit, slept off the Sake till the boys came crashing in, and got some work done on the car.

First, assemble the heater box.

"Helper", and I'm using the term VERY charitably:










Ready to install, with new foam seal:










Installed with ducts, covers, drain pipe, etc...:










Vacuum reservoir (powers the vents, a lot of folks think this thing is an emissions component):










The raintray vent supply, with new foam on both ducts as well as on the flapper assembly:



















As soon as I realized that the rain tray was full of stuff, I noticed the wiper setup was still in the basement :facepalm:...

...so I got to take everything out, put the wiper setup in, and do everything over again :










aaaaaaaaaand I've had it for the day.

Bye.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

echassin said:


> aaaaaaaaaand I've had it for the day.


Well maybe not...A plate of spaghetti and a tasty beverage rejuvenates nicely, so back at it.

Coil and brackets cleaned up and installed:










Which means the rain tray has everything it needs and can be covered:










I also got the HVAC levers modified like I did with my Cabby. Without the A/C, the two levers do one function each instead of two each, so they can be simplified.

Before:










After, with A/C temparature switch, A/C microswitch, and un-needed levers removed:



















Astute observers will note that the heater valve cable works through the entire range of the HVAC lever's sweep, much more leverage so the action is very smooth.

Valve closed and open:


----------



## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

^^^ that is cool...need to do that to mine when I pull the dash out to tackle A/C elimination project.


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## theenico (Nov 12, 2003)

Jesus H. Mfing Christos. I disappear for a year and you go and do this.

Nice work. You have rejuvinated my enthusiasm and motivated me to take my own project to a slightly higher level.

P.S. I gifted myself a similar welder earlier this year.










Great minds think alike.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

theenico said:


> Great minds think alike.


Yours is a 180 with a cart, and mine is a 140 with a cardboard box, but yes, I still consider myself a great mind


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## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

echassin said:


> Yours is a 180 with a cart, and mine is a 140 with a cardboard box, but yes, I still consider myself a great mind


I have welder envy


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Hi Niko


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> I also got the HVAC levers modified like I did with my Cabby. Without the A/C, the two levers do one function each instead of two each, so they can be simplified.
> 
> Before:
> 
> ...


I might need to pick your brain on this one at Cincy. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> I might need to pick your brain on this one at Cincy. :thumbup:


You can pick your friends, and you can pick...oh wait, I thought you were gonna pick my nose 

It's not complicated: the upper lever controls the vacuum switch to select which vent blows, and that's it. The lower lever actuates the cable, and nothing else. You just guesstimate with a ruler how much sweep is needed to move the cable all the way in both directions, drill a little hole to see what you get, and keep trying more holes until it's right.

Today I had a huge Honey-Do list to attend to, but I did get the shroud and fan cleaned up and mounted:










Astute observers will note that one of the flap retainers is broken, I'll add that to my mental list of bits to watch for.

Busy social weekend, but I'll try to get the alternator done.

TT 2.25" SS exhaust/Borla shipped supposedly today. Still shooting for Memorial Day engine start, and if all's well, the rest of the build will be lower stress.

OTOH, if it won't start...


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

Why not run a Spaal type fan and get rid of the full shroud and bulky fan?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Falcor said:


> Why not run a Spaal type fan and get rid of the full shroud and bulky fan?


I tend to use what I have as long as it works.

A slim fan, dual carbs etc... would be awesome and might figure into the equation someday


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We have a BBQ to go to today, but I was able to get the alternator mounted:










There's plenty of room, thank goodness. I had to make a few trips to PepBoys to get the best belt. It's nice and tight, and near the bottom of the slot, so there's room for stretch as it ages:










Hopefully the span won't be a problem. If it is, I'll switch to a non A/C bracket, which would be a shame, because I killed my angle grinder minimizing the one I have :










The flash emphasized the grinding marks, but it's flat black in real life and it looks great (if I say so myself ).


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Eric, what kind of paint did you use for the alternator refinishing? I have to do the same to an ABF I was planning to use on my Heron engine.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Plain ol' Duplicolor Engine Paint.

Pitfalls: 1500 degree paint isn't gasoline proof, but the 500 degree kind is. Aluminum color is nice and bright, Cast Aluminum is dull like magnesium. Paint that is thin won't peel or scratch as much. No primer, so if the paint does peel, or if you scratch it, bare aluminum is all there'll be, and it hardly shows, plus it's a faster process and the paint dries fast.

It does age on a daily driver, but looks better for longer than raw metal. For a weekend toy, I haven't noticed any deterioration in 5+ years.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

You can also use spray brake caliper paint, it comes out nice and is fairly resistant to many fluids.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Engine bay wiring today, not very photogenic, so use your imagination 

I did take a pic of the new radiator fan harness, which still draws off of fuse #1, but with no input from the A/C relay or HVAC levers, and with the "fast" fan speed only:










I do have two questions if one of you with a 16V could check under your hood:

1) These two plugs above the gearbox escaped labelling:










Each plug has two prongs. One plug has a red wire into one prong, and another red wire jumps to the other prong. The other plug has two prongs, each with a red and white wire. Do these plugs mate?

2) The "black" oil pressure switch has one prong with a yellow wire, but a PO added a wire that grounds the prong. I assume this was done as a quicky-fix, but I also assume that if I remove the ground wire, an oil pressure circuit malfunction will manifest. Any ideas?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I had a full day at work but a bunch of parts arrived, so I wolfed down dinner, skedaddled, and got a bunch done. Petra loves when she take hours to make a meal and I eat it in a minute...

First the upper intake, its brackets, and the TB:










Then a new oxygen sensor, with tons of antiseize:










Exhaust manifold and downpipe installed, with those special nuts which rust, but I was told the stainless nuts I used on the other cars were ill-advised:










New knock sensor:










The old one appeared to work, but it looked like it had been cooked with a blow torch, smacked with a sledge hammer, and soaked in acid.

At about this time, a finch flew into the garage, and in spite of the fact that both doors were up, kept bashing into the ceiling trying to get out. It did finally escape, but not before dumping a load onto the S1:










WTF :sly:? I keep the thing in the garage to keep it out of harm's way, so a bird flies in and ishts on it. That's irony .

Anyhoo, after a little Windex, back to the S2.

Airbox, metering box with its brackets, fuel distributor, intake boot, and main fuel feed hose:



















I hope to wrap up the fuel injection tomorrow, and as soon as some final coolant hoses and the exhaust arrive, I'll try to wrap up the engine bay and see if the thing starts.

Goodnight :beer:


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Are you sure it wasn't a raven or a crow? I recommend burning some sage around the garage to keep the positive energies flowing. 

Great progress Eric.


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## sw05s2k (Aug 31, 2010)

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Bird flew into the garage to poop on the Mk1. Classic!!



BTW, beautiful work on this one, I'm in awe yet again. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> I recommend burning some sage


IDK, if irony is the new rule, I might set fire to the place 

Injection bits today:










Doesn't look like much work, but the ISV and FPR are on, as are the vacuum line to power the dash vents and the vent line from the gas tank, minus the various canisters. The banjo fittings and CIS lines are next.

I really need someone to identify those two plugs I posted above in post #366. I don't want to attempt an engine start without closure on that. Perdy pleeeeeeze.

UPS tracking says the last coolant hoses will be here late tomorrow, and the exhaust will arrive late Thursday. Hopefully this POS will be bucking by the weekend.


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## 1nsanevwfreak (Sep 10, 2007)

[QUOTE

I really need someone to identify those two plugs I posted above in post #366. I don't want to attempt an engine start without closure on that. Perdy pleeeeeeze..[/QUOTE]

So far I call wiring shenanigans, I can't find those connectors anywhere in that area. There is a White/green stripe wire to the backup switch. I'll look more tomorrow when I have more light. What are the other wire colors?


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

IIRC, those are for the upshift light...I could be wrong.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Didn't the 16 v have a few plugs that were not used for anything?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The reverse switch wiring is accounted for over the driver frame rail, these plugs are out of the harnesses that run above the bellhousing.

I had Petra look at the colors, here's what she said:

First plug has a red/yellow wire on one prong and a green/yellow wire on the other prong.

Second plug has an orange wire on one prong with an orange jumper wire from that prong to the other prong.

I labelled vacant plugs too, so the fact that I didn't label these doesn't guarantee they're vacant, it only proves I'm a dumbisht 

I deleted the upshift wiring, but I can't remember how far I took that.

Any confirmation would be GREATLY appreciated :beer:


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

You had A/C right? How about the 2 pressure switches in the high pressure line?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I thought the A/C wiring all went along the core to drivers side and behind the battery, but I'm not sure anymore. Can anyone confirm that my vacant plugs are A/C switches?


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> I thought the A/C wiring all went along the core to drivers side and behind the battery, but I'm not sure anymore. Can anyone confirm that my vacant plugs are A/C switches?


Having sold my 16V nearly 18 months ago, I am useless. Or wait, is that just what my wife calls me? 

In all seriousness, I found this picture from Tim when he was helping me diagnose an issue with an intermittent no-start.










Not sure if that helps...


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

echassin said:


> I thought the A/C wiring all went along the core to drivers side and behind the battery, but I'm not sure anymore. Can anyone confirm that my vacant plugs are A/C switches?




It's more an educated guess, really. But, I do recall them being on a separate circuit, for the fan/fan relay.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for the effort guys, and Joe, everything on the engine harness is accounted for.

I looked at it again, and this should help a LOT if someone could look under their hood:

The two plugs both come out of the same harness that supplies the oil pressure sensors on the oil filter flange, and also the starter solenoid (two subharnesses that split over the bellhousing). 

The plugs are located right where these two sub-harnesses split to go their separate ways, over the bellhousing.

I need a Mensch to follow each of the two sub-harnesses from the oil filter flange and the starter solenoid backwards to where they join, and the two white plugs should be right there in plain sight.

My question is whether they mate to each other or whether they supply something I've deleted.


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## 16VScirrocco88 (Apr 13, 2003)

I will take a look at my car tonight


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## 1nsanevwfreak (Sep 10, 2007)

They do not connect together. They connect to two more connectors, each having one lead going to the upshift indicator vacuum switch the other two going back into the loom. I can get colors if you need them.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for that :thumbup:

Color confirmation would be great.


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

echassin said:


> I do have two questions if one of you with a 16V could check under your hood:
> 
> 1) These two plugs above the gearbox escaped labelling:
> 
> ...


Both of those connectors appear to be upshift light related. Consider yourself lucky I popped the hood, I am on a long break from this pile 

I snapped a quick and awful picture so you know what's up. Each connector has one wire each that goes to the vacuum sensor connector thats resting against the clutch cable, and the other sides loop around to the connector on the transmission. I'm sure most of this is stuff you deleted from the car. Hope this helps you out, the car is coming along nicely :thumbup:

Let me know if need anything else, I have left everything in tact on my car so it would be good for reference.


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## 1nsanevwfreak (Sep 10, 2007)

echassin said:


> Thanks for that :thumbup:
> 
> Color confirmation would be great.


OK first off it looks more red/white but mine could be bleached out, here we go.
Green/yellow-green/yellow on reverse switch
red/yellow-red/yellow on vacuum switch
orange-orange/yellow on vacuum switch
orange-orange on reverse switch
So it appears that it is all for the upshift indicator.


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## GTIanz (Feb 1, 2012)

I'm enjoying your progress and this build immensely. I've always wanted to take on rebuild like this and I love your approach.



scirocco*joe said:


> Having sold my 16V nearly 18 months ago, I am useless. Or wait, is that just what my wife calls me?
> 
> In all seriousness, I found this picture from Tim when he was helping me diagnose an issue with an intermittent no-start.
> 
> ...


What you are facing right now and auto wiring in general is what scares me the most about a build. Something one should just go for? Or, is it smarter to take on smaller projects to learn and build up to a full restoration?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

THANK YOU! Armed with this information, a box of parts I found at the front door when we got home from a school field trip, and a sudden new zest for Life, I finished up the CIS and installed the battery, so here's where the engine bay is at:










Now, the exhaust won't be here till tomorrow, but honestly: did you REALLY expect me to leave the ignition switch alone when I'm SO CLOSE?

Of course not. So, a few attempts that timed out the CSV, and...

...IT RUNS!










*Insert really loud engine sounds, as one might expect with an open downpipe*

It idles and revs perfectly, and overall it's mostly good news:

1) The accessory belt is rock steady throughout the RPM range, and not very tight at all :thumbup:

2) The simplified radiator fan circuit cycles perfectly.

3) With the instrument panel temporarily plugged in to bring the voltage regulator on line, the charging system reads 13.5 volts at the battery terminals.

4) One lifter took a while to fill up and clicked at first, but now it's quiet.

5) The oil stayed perfectly clear

6) Coolant is perfectly clear, and no foam

7) The exhaust paint smoked for a bit but looks great

8) The shifter is spot on.

There are some bugs to work out:

1) The water pump developed a brisk leak at the shaft seal while sitting in the basement . New pump needed.

2)The front water jacket, which I enjoyed installing immensely because I had the intake on already, is also leaking . I took a lot of time with it and still ufcked it up  

Overall I'm really happy, and mostly just relieved that the electrical system didn't suffer any apparent ill effects after being stripped down so much *phew*

Thanks again the the plug indentifications :beer:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Congrats, Eric! Glad to see you make so much progress. :thumbup:

As far as the water pump goes, you had to have guessed that as soon as you said this:



echassin said:


> I'm using my pump anyways, but I was just curious.


You knew you were eventually going to say this:



echassin said:


> The water pump developed a brisk leak at the shaft seal while sitting in the basement . New pump needed.




That said, only a small number of problems considering the work you performed. I think you deserve a hearty pat on the back. And some cold ones. :beer: :beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I can't wait to hear all the "told-you-so's" when the engine craps out .

The radiator sprung a leak while I was doing those burnouts that first day, but I remember it wasn't the pump.

So while I expect all of the old parts I'm using will need replacing sooner or later, I admit I didn't expect the pump to fail immediately on first start . That seems quite the coincidence.

But now that I see the new pump was only $35 complete, I do feel like I was being stupid 

OTOH I'm already $3300 just to reach first engine start, buying everything that could possibly fail would make that number much worse.

Plus I still need some big ticket items like wheels and tires, re-upholstery, and a dash. I have a lead on some used Eurosport springs, so I may start with that before shelling out for my preferred H&R/Bilsteins.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

You may be dealing with a totally rotted out cooling system like Becky's car had. I flushed the coolant, and then it started rejecting things. First the water pump. Then the radiator. The oil cooler three way hose. the heater valve. the heater core. It may have had a bunch of stop-leak in it. As much as we hate it - that sh!t works!


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Eh, don't worry. We just like to bust chops. :thumbup:



echassin said:


> OTOH I'm already $3300 just to reach first engine start, buying everything that could possibly fail would make that number much worse.


As far as the $3,300, I sold my 16V for $3,100 and it didn't look nearly as clean or beautiful as yours. So in my mind, you are ahead of the game (especially since you KNOW the work was done right).


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> Eh, don't worry. We just like to bust chops. :thumbup:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as the $3,300, I sold my 16V for $3,100 and it didn't look nearly as clean or beautiful as yours. So in my mind, you are ahead of the game (especially since you KNOW the work was done right).


I can dish it, so I better be able to take it 

I don't feel bad at all about money spent, my point was that if one wants to make a "new" car that won't need any work for 10 years, one would need to replace darn near everything, and the cost would be absurd for a hobby econobox.

Tim, I was thinking along the same lines. I'll bet some debris that had been floating in the coolant harmlessly for years dried out or precipitated in the pump while it was sitting in the basement, and the minute I fired the engine, the shaft or the seal got gouged.

Today I'm tidying a bit, weighing the delete pile, and installing some easy stuff like brake hoses and the K-bar. The pump is on order and I'll redo the water jacket when I redo the pump.


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

I had that same isht happen on Laura's Golf build, I was on a shoestring budget, so I left out some minor items and did not replace everything. Sure enough, within the first year, I had replaced just about every part that I did not replace during the rebuild, and my nice clean engine had tons of oil, coolant, etc.. all over it. :banghead: Lesson learned I suppose.

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Replacing everything over a year's time feels better cuz you don't notice the nickles and dimes pissing away 

Today I weighed the delete pile: 131 pounds! Basically I can carry someone around and have no performance penalty, except all you beer sluggers on this forum, for you I'd have to remove the hood and hatch too 

I installed the new brake hoses that arrived yesterday:



















I primed and painted the metal fittings, and covered them with Cosmoline once installed, to try to keep them from rusting as bad as the originals.

Then I cleaned up, painted, and installed the K-bar:










I also pulled the wires up the C-pillar for the hatch:










All that's left is the 12V+ to the license lights and to the defog element, the grounds I'll add later.

Then Petra and I went out for our Thursday Sushi lunch, hoping the exhaust would be waiting for me when we got home.

Sure enough:




























As always, fitment is adequate and the sound is stellar :thumbup: There was a hissing leak at the stump of the sniffer pipe (I had just cut it and flattened it), but a quick weld and all's well.

The tach, speedo, fuel gauge, and charging light all work as they should.

The oil warning was doing the 2000rpm+ buzzing/blinking thing until I grounded the white oil pressure switch (replacing it didn't work)  Ideas?

Edit: I was sweeping and I have an update on the finch that got stuck fluttering around the garage ceiling and crapped on the S1 (those of frail emotion please avert your eyes):










I guess it never found the way out even though both garage doors were wide open . It must've got pooped out (pun indended) and died, which was disappointing to see.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> Today I weighed the delete pile: 131 pounds! Basically I can carry someone around and have no performance penalty, except all you beer sluggers on this forum, for you I'd have to *remove the hood and hatch too*



Remove the glass and chop the roof too. :thumbup::beer:


No wheels, is that a hover Scirocco? :wave:


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

This is coming along nicely! I just can't wait for the FS thread for the other red Scirocco you have!!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> This is coming along nicely! I just can't wait for the FS thread for the other red Scirocco you have!!


Thank you sir. And I'll give you and early bird special on the S1: one mmmmmmillion dollars *holds pinky to corner of mouth*

I spent most of the day cleaning up, since the car has reached the milestone of having a running drivetrain. The tiptissery is now on the fire pit pile, and the general grunge has been removed from the garage and the basement and everything in them.

I did get the antenna installed:










I don't anticipate having a radio in this car, but:

If I want a radio someday,
I'd need an antenna,
so I'd have to remove the rear of the headliner,
so I'd have to remove the quarter glass,
and the hatch seal,
and who knows what else.

So I put an antenna in now 

Oh and Blooper for the day:










I was installing the steering column, but astute observers will note that it's not on the car, and the column itself is missing.

See, the splines were a snug fit into the U joint. Now, if I'd had a screwdriver on me, I'd have spread the U joint a bit...

...but all I had was a hammer.

So I hit the top of the column, and as I'm *whack* hitting, the splines are slowly engaging *smack*, and I'm recalling that I read somewhere *smash* that you shouldn't do that *pow*, but since I can't remember why *bang*, it can't be that important...

...except that now the column is 3" too short 

...and won't extend because the strap the sets the length got caught in the telescoping part and it's totally jammed :facepalm: I have folks with bigger tools and bigger arms working on it, but we'll see how that works out...

So I get the doofus award today


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Last night I got the tail lights and the license plate backing plate cleaned up and installed: 










I'm missing a bunch of bulbs but the brake lights and the reverse lights work, which is good because it means my wiring is so-far-so-good. 

I also got the front end halves torn down, not much to start with that's good: 










I'll think these rotors are good for one more resurfacing : 










This morning we got up early to spend the day with our 10 year old's friend at the drag strip. His Dad made him this mini dragster :thumbup:: 



















He also fixed the steering column for me. The telescoping section is really snug, but to be sure that vibration wouldn't let it lengthen and bind the U-joints, it even has a nice strap rigged up to replace the one I broke, and the lower bearing is tweaked to work and slide like it should but not fall out  :thumbup:. 

Installed: 










It feels really smooth . Next was the switch assembly, steering wheel and column covers: 










The wipers work but the washer doesn't. I also noticed the vents don't work well, so a couple of things to troubleshoot yet. I also have to get some bulbs to check turn signals, lighting, etc...


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## Mean 'n Green86 (Dec 17, 2006)

Excellent work this has.been fun to watch


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## needaveedub (Jan 22, 2001)

my goodness, i love the scirocco forum!


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Those wire colors look like Green w/ White Stripe
Orange w/ ('I can't tell from here') &
Brown as in Ground Wires.

can you twist the thing around some more and snap a second picture to contrast/compare? 

(I think I have a PDF version of Scirocco MkII/16V schematics around somewheres...)

Two thoughts come to mind; are the brown wires Zero ohms to Chassis Ground? (vs being brown ground wires that are _switched_ ground wires.) 

Secondly; many early VWs like ours had test point junctions for the Bosch Certified Stations/Dealers, etc to plug tsting equiptment into the loom without disconnection stuff. Theres connectors cause a great deal of head scratching if you are trying to "find out were these loose wires go?"


[EDIT] I see you fired it up and got the basics of a running engine eace: so my post might be moot at this point. 

Still, It would be nice to be definitive in finding out what purposes those wires/connectors serve. 

(Oh, I just remembered- they are for the optional Flux Capacitor!. well- duh...)


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

An earlier post confirmed that those are for the upshift circuit, but thanks for the follow-through :beer:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

echassin said:


> An earlier post confirmed that those are for the upshift circuit, but thanks for the follow-through :beer:


 
Sorry, I was posting while sleep-deprived...


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## MacColl (May 28, 2012)

Hello, 

As a Scirocco owner over here in Scotland I just had to register and say great project and great forum, I am particularly amazed at the speed that you seem to have progressed. 

I'm a member of the Scirocco Register over the water and I'm always looking for inspiration. I have a pretty rough Mk2 daily which hopefully might get this kind of treatment some day. 

Cheers


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

MacCoil, 

I've some Scot in my somewhere (you know us 'Mericans, we're a hybrid bunch) and (while not wanting to hijack the PO's thread) I wanted to say "Welcome" and from what I know so far this is a hell of a thread to make yer 1st post to. 

This guy has set the bar high- and rightly so, 


> This isn't a car, this aint no project- It's a Scirocco..


 so- fair thee well, brace yer mains, and get to wrenchin'...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

MacColl said:


> great project and great forum


 Thank you sir  

Welcome to the nuthouse  

Today, between burgers, cheesecake, and hard lemonade, I found myself a bit listless, but my M.O. is I try to do something to the car every day. 

So I got the control arms cleaned up, primed, and painted, and installed them along with the K-bar and the ball joints: 




























You can see from the pan on the floor that my new water pump is still pending  

I primed and painted all of the hardware and the ball joints before and after installation, so hopefully it'll all stand up reasonably well to winter use. 

Tomorrow I'll build the axles. I also have to get the old bearings pressed out so I can clean up the splindles and get the new bearings in. The struts also need work and I don't have springs yet, I'd better get on that. 

*Burp* Talk to y'all later.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Work on the front end continues: 

Axle "kit" with original shafts and CV joints, and new hardware/boots: 










After months of tedium, this is the part of the build that I like. 

Assembled: 










I realize I could buy axles for not much more than I spent rebuilding these, but I prefer this approach if possible because I don't have to ponder the quality or fitment.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Purrrrrdy. :thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

echassin said:


> I realize I could buy axles for not much more than I spent rebuilding these, but I prefer this approach if possible because I don't have to ponder the quality or fitment.


 That has been my experience with just about every aftermarket axle I could find; the replacements just don't balance out very well and often the rebuilt ones don't last that long. Good on ya' for rebuilding the OEM's. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Work on the front end continues, fawning over each piece in order to assemble a complete "kit": 










The spindles are getting everything pressed out so I can clean them up along with the hubs. New bearings are on the way, at which point I'll get the assemblies pressed back together. 

The struts were so crusty I didn't want to deal with them, so I ordered an H&R Sport Cup Kit which I hope will make short work of all four corners . 

I'll start tearing apart the rear beam after Cincy. 

See y'all soon :wave:


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## EuroTrash_miT (Oct 30, 2005)

Is there a reason you didnt go with an adjustable coilover setup instead? 

Enjoy Cincy! :thumbup::thumbup::wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

EuroTrash_miT said:


> Is there a reason you didnt go with an adjustable coilover setup instead?


 Over the years I've always been happy with the H&R "not-coil-over" setups, so when it came time to get suspension for this car, I went: 

H&R-->Sport Cup Kit-->Buy Now. 

That was the extent of my research  

And I'll admit I have a slightly negative [and admittedly unfair] "boy-racer" stigma to coil-overs. 

*dons flame suit*


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

I hear you on that. I have never had a car with coils, but I considered it for a few of my cars. In the end I will probably use a cup kit on both of the daily drivers. H&R designed them for spirited daily driving cars so why mess with it.  My Scirocco might have coils but will be more of a purpose built car and the drivetrain will not be stock Scirocco configuration.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

One of these days I might _spring_ for coils, but I've always been a "set it and forget it" kind of guy. I like to tinker, but I like to drive more.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

1) Rebuilt Axles. :heart:
2) H&R Cup Kit - eace:, although having had a set for a number of years I've yet to drive a single mile on them... 

"vroom, vroom"


----------



## MickR (Jan 27, 2011)

This is a great thread - keep it up. Have a great time out in Cincy :beer:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

MickR said:


> This is a great thread - keep it up. Have a great time out in Cincy :beer:


 
Dontcha' just love it: "I've been working so hard on my Scirocco Project that I thought it's be a great idea to take a vacation and go visit some _Other_ Scirocos..."

Jealous?, Who, Me?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I still have quite a bit of catching up to do on the Honey-do list, but I'm back from Cincy and ready to work.

Parking on the Kia side again is unacceptable for next year so I have only 52 weeks to get this heap done 

Daun was gracious enough to let me rummage through The Barn for the myriad little bits and pieces that the car was missing :thumbup::beer: just one more reason he's The Man.

For example, timing cover:










Much of the bits aren't photo-worthy but they are critical, like the clips that hold the airbox shut, etc...

I do need one of these in working condition:










This one came from The Barn and unfortunately leaks as bad as the one it replaced (Daun, your subpoena should arrive shortly). My usual tricks were unsuccessful, and switching the one from the Cabby makes the vents work perfectly, so it's definitely the valve I need. Anyone who can spare a working valve from a perfectly good car will "receive" one million dollars :bs:

I also replaced the dead windshield washer motor with a "dead" one from the barn, and just as I was about to question the warranty on Daun's goods, I discovered I didn't plug the harness all the into the column switch . Both motors are in fact fine 

Then I got to some front end prep. I still have to go get the spindles and dust shields and paint them before having the new bearings pressed in. In the meantime I went ahead and painted the new water pump so that it won't tarnish:










And I got the calipers assembled and loaded with new pads:










Finally, I taped off the swept part of the rotors and painted the rest, so that when I take off the wheels for whatever reason in the future, I won't have to look at much crust:










There's no paint on the swept part, so you get an idea how good the paint matches the metal :thumbup:


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## EuroTrash_miT (Oct 30, 2005)

I get giddy like a school girl when i get a notification that you posted another update to your thread


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

I am sooo glad I didn't pick up this 'Rocco the week before you did.

Ya see, I am the "a**hole" that brought the previous owner of this vehicle $900.00 worth of music gear to trade him(per his request,I had the cash).

I drive 4 hours in a snowstorm to get to his house-and he decides my stuff is not good enough. He wanted another $250.00. 

I leave being just a little miffed.  I burned a Saturday and had to hear "I told you so" from my wife for month.

But seeing the work this car has been, I am glad that I did not get a$$ deep in yet another Scirocco.

Being an ASE certified Master Technician I will give you my highest complement I can give you. 
:thumbup: VERY NICE WORK:thumbup:Well Done!

I have enjoyed this thread more than any other on Vortex.
I will go to Cincy in 2013 just to shake your hand and buy you an ice cold :beer: or your choice.
---whether or not my pile of Scirocco is on the road. 
----I will shamefully park my Rabbit oin the Kia side if need be:facepalm:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you sir 

I think I got plenty of car for $500, so I'm not sweating any inaccuracies in how the car was presented (mainly rust issues, which I expected), but $900 of goods plus $250 cash on top would definitely have sent me home without the car.


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

Warms my heart that you care to do things right.

Half my life has been spent fixing other peoples f---ups(sometimes even my co-workers).

Also good to know this car went to a better steward than I.

My friend had me talked into making this a SCCA weekend racer. It would have met a horrible end at the hand of my race driving learning curve. Sacrificial lamb type stuff. Fate dealt it a much better hand.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today work continued on the suspension.

The Mensch who pressed everything out of the spindles also dropped them off :thumbup: (he's still getting one race off the other hub):










I started to dissassemble and catalogue the rear end parts. Pretty crusty stuff, some destruction required to get things apart, so some stuff might need to be replaced. We'll see.

The necessary bits:










New delete pile starting:










As far as the delete pile, hear me out:

1) The S1 one has no sway bars, the car stays nice and flat with the H&R/Bilstein setup, so I'm gonna try this car that way and I bet it'll be fine in its lightened state (plus, the bars are thicker than on the GTI and quite heavy too)

2) I'm not gonna run rear dust shields because the wheel side of the rotors is open and they see plenty of dust, so why not the back side :screwy:? The front dust covers I'm using as grease shields in case a CV boot blows, but I don't see the need in the rear.

3) The handbrake is going to be replaced by leaving the car in gear, which will keep a car still even when it's parked on a hill.

Less parts is, well-- it's less parts  I'm keeping a lot of this stuff, so I can always add it later if desired (unlikely )

Tomorrow I'll start cleaning things up, hopefully get the front bearings pressed in, and maybe get the fronts end together Friday. The rear end, well, that's gonna take some work and some time...


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

echassin said:


> Today work continued on the suspension.
> 
> The Mensch who pressed everything out of the spindles also dropped them off :thumbup: (he's still getting one race off the other hub):
> 
> ...


The shields are mainly for water, water on the brakes = no brakes, i'd keep the sway bar because i'd be afraid of massive understeer, but thats just me though, the S1 and S2 are different cars dimension and weight wise.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Doubt he will see any difference with out a rear sway in commuter driving. Heck, most driving you wouldn't even notice, and if you did, that's just a ton more fun to be had!


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## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

echassin said:


> 3) The handbrake is going to be replaced by leaving the car in gear, which will keep a car still even when it's parked on a hill.



i can honestly tell you thats not true. when parked on a semi steep inclined driveway i could hear my warning stage of my alarm going off as the gravity fought w/compression and was winning a few feet at a time. bad e-brake assemblies on a mk2 jetta gli i had. it got old quick blocking up the tire.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

VWsEatRice said:


> i can honestly tell you thats not true. when parked on a semi steep inclined driveway i could hear my warning stage of my alarm going off as the gravity fought w/compression and was winning a few feet at a time. bad e-brake assemblies on a mk2 jetta gli i had. it got old quick blocking up the tire.


X2, I would most definitely keep the e brake stuff, what are we really talking about an extra 2 lbs? The safety benefits would outweigh any other reasons for removing it. I can understand cutting weight but the safety bits should come first.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm glad you all approve of my plans


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

echassin said:


> I'm glad you all approve of my plans



:laugh:

Another vote for keeping the ebrake stuff for 3 reasons:

1. Boring safety, you never know then that old MC may let go on you.
2. The center tunnel will look goofy with no ebrake handle.
3. I may be old, but I still enjoy the occasional ebrake 180.... :screwy:


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

My input too.....

Laura's MKII Golf has no sways and it handles like an oxcart. Stock springs and struts, yeah. But still.....

That same Golf also has broken e-brake cables. It WILL start to roll on a good incline while parked in gear... and it has a diesel engine with 22.5:1 compression. Laura has to carry around a "special tool" (brick) if she is going to park on a hill.

And yeah, the whole e-brake rally turn is always a fun way to relieve stress. 

Brendan


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## MattRabbit (Mar 16, 2000)

Yep, chiming in here with -Keep the e-brake!-.

My Rabbit didn't have an ebrake for awhile. I figured I could just leave it in first. That really didn't work.

It's a diesel, and even on semi-small hills, it would start to bump forward as gravity beat compression. You'll really want it back, trust me on this.

Also, you need it for emergencies! If your brakes don't work, you can pull the handle! It's probably why it's called an emergency brake, no? 

Other than that, delete away! :thumbup:


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## cholland_ (Apr 12, 2006)

I agree with everybody here. An emergency brake is 100% necessary for all these reasons (especially the handbrake slides).

Eric, everything you've done to this car has been done perfectly. This will be *the* stock mk2 when it's done. But leaving out something like this is just stupid :thumbdown:


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

+1 on keeping the han brake.

If something happens.......and the insurance company finds there is no working ebrake on the car you can bet they'll use that to get out of paying anything for damages occured.......


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Allow me to add one more vote for keeping the hand brake. The rest you can ditch, as it's all personal preference. Handling is personal, brakes will dry when you press the pads to the rotors, but an e-brake is a necessity. And it only ends up being two cables and a handle.

:thumbup:


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> I'm glad you all approve of my plans


You should paint the car black. :thumbup:


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

+1 on deleting it. But, I'd go a teeny tiny step further, and delete the wheels/tires/rear beam/complete suspension and drivetrain, and make it a hover car! You'd have tons of weight saved, no need for a parking brake, and be the lowest scirocco ever.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Hmmm...

Being the astute kind of guy that I am, I'm noticing a trend :sly:, so due to intense peer pressure (to which I am usually impervious), I'll put the handbrake on.

As far as the splash shields, I don't object to having them but mine are half dissolved, as I suspect are any used ones I might find, and I can't find them new. So I'll make a deal with y'all: if a nice pair drops in my lap, I'll install them.

The sway bar I'm not sweating at all, I can add it back at any time if desired.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

echassin said:


> I'll put the handbrake on.


Now let's hope the e-brake levers on the rear calipers actually function! 

for you>


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Frustrating day today getting the rear beam stripped down. I'm filthy and beat:












d-bot said:


> Now let's hope the e-brake levers on the rear calipers actually function!


They do not. They're frozen, and one caliper I couldn't even get all the way apart. Both rotten paper weights...

...as was most everything from the rear end. The only thing I salvaged was the bare bones beam and the axle studs. Everything else in the garbage, including the beam's mounting bracketry.

Replacement cost $370, not bad but unexpected . I got Mk3 calipers after reading a bit in these forums.

Craig was gracious enough to spare a set of mounting brackets with good rubber.

I can't find those little shields that mount behind the rotors on the stud axle, if anyone knows where to get those.

And the more I think of it, the more I want splash shields in back. I think'll it'll look too wierd without them. Anyone have any decent spares?

On a good note, I got the spindles cleaned up, painted, and assembled, and they're off getting the various bits pressed together :thumbup::










I hope to get the front mostly done tomorrow *crosses fingers*


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

Ya know... if you want simplicity, you could change to drums... Lighter, simpler, cheaper...


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

TheTimob said:


> Ya know... if you want simplicity, you could change to drums... Lighter, simpler, cheaper...


True dat Timbo...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

lol, no.

less talk, more splash shields


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

TheTimob said:


> Ya know... if you want simplicity, you could change to drums... Lighter, simpler, cheaper...


Drums on vw's suck, I would definitely stay in the modern age and keep the discs!


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks for keeping the e-brake. The most compelling argument was the liabilty factor. If an accident investigator figured out that you had no "secondary braking system", I'm afraid they would have seriously raped your wallet.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Beautiful weather today and no work, so I goofed off a bit, but also got the beam cleaned up, primed, painted, and installed:




























Looking at the Cabby in this pic, I realize the thing's not half bad .










I was really careful not to scratch anything, and the fasteners are all Cosmoline soaked, so I think this'll all survive the winters here nicely.

I'm pretty much stuck here:










Until I get some of these, but made out of metal :










Astute observers will note the hand brake cables, so you ibtches can stop whining (not that there's anything wrong with whiny ibtches )

I have one assembled spindle, so I might get to that after dinner


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## cholland_ (Apr 12, 2006)

echassin said:


> Astute observers will note the hand brake cables, so you ibtches can stop whining


Nah. I'll just find something different to whine about.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

cholland_ said:


> I'll just find something different to whine about.


If can brighten up your humdrum little lives, then it ain't all been in vain for nuthin' [not quoted for accuracy]

More work on a beautiful summer evening, torque specs probably off a bit due to Seagram's Escapes:

Handbrake handle painted and installed:










Normally not picture worthy, but y'all seem obsessed about handbrakes 

One front end done less the H&R strut, which I hope is imminent:



















Axle and caliper:










Axle mated to drive flange:










This is the part I like, putting nice things on the shell. Most of the rest, up till now, lets face it, just sucked.


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## GTIanz (Feb 1, 2012)

echassin said:


> Frustrating day today getting the rear beam stripped down. I'm filthy and beat:












Do you have a sandblaster or are you cleaning up parts like this by hand?

Restoring as many cars as you have I can't imagine living without one.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I use the sandblaster only for areas I can't get to by other means cuz it makes a mess, even in the caninet. Mostly I use wire wheels, DA with 40 grit, angle grinder, Dremel, etc...

...or I just replace the part .

Only for body panels do I strive for absolutely sterile metal. On driveline parts I go for reasonably clean before using converter and paint.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

echassin said:


>


*gasp!*

_duct tape?_

[ribbing]where's the OEM tape?  [/ribbing]


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I did debate getting some black duct tape, but it's just a Mk2, so I used what I had :laugh:

I have the other completed spindle, so I'll get the passenger side front end installed tomorrow:










Bath time, Nighty Night.


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## EuroTrash_miT (Oct 30, 2005)

echassin said:


> Handbrake handle painted and installed:


I know this is a really random request, and i don't mean to thread jack but is it possible to get a closeup or build out of the parking brake? The parking break in my Cabriolet keeps pulling the disc up with it, passed the little nub that holds the disc down. I'm not sure if its the post that the hand brake pivots on, or a missing gromet? 

I keep having to reset the disc into place, but its getting old, fast.

Much appreciated! :thumbup::beer:


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## rocco82 (Nov 28, 2003)

I'm sure you will be fine without the rear sway bar. My mk2 does not have one.

As for the rear brake backing plates.... I'm sure even discs with water on them work better than drums. Plus the fronts do most of the work anyway.

Just my 2 cents (not that it's worth anything)

Awesome work! Keep it up! (Truely fun to follow all your build threads)


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm sorry that I didn't take better pictures of the handbrake. It's pretty simple and there's a good drawing in Bentley. Mine popped off too because things were bent up from a PO cranking on the handle instead of realizing the calipers were seized :facepalm:

As far as the backing plates, now I want them because I just think it'll look awful without them.

Today is supposed to be blazing hot so we're gonna hang out at the pool, but before everyone else got up, I snuck down and installed the passenger front end:



















Caliper and axle:










Axle mated to drive flange, and just generally cool picture, IMO:










Here's where I'm at until I find backing plates, stub axle shields, and the struts arrive:










I just think cars look great at this stage 

I guess while I'm waiting for parts I could tackle the coolant leaks. We'll see *yawn*


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## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

Eric - what are using for black paint? I have a 16V rear beam I was considering getting powdercoated, but that looks pretty darn good....

Also - did your "Mensch" press in the new rubber bushings for the rear beam mounts? Those look to be a real beotch, and I don't want to go poly.

Nice work here - will certainly save a few Scirocco's in the future.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Craig: Rustoleum rust-inhibiting primer in a can, dabbed on to avoid brush marks. Then Rustoleum "grille" paint, also dabbed on from a can.

The paint choice probably isn't as important as the rust removal. I'm not as obsessive on driveline parts as I am on body panels, but I do try to achieve at least dark gray before painting. No brown, and certainly no flakes or powdery rust residue. For parts that are so crusty I'd need POR 15, I seek replacements 

Along those lines, the beam brackets are from another car that even had good rubber. The plan otherwise would have been to cut out the rubber and replace with $20 poly (suboptimal) I think you can get "real" bushings but I'm not sure where. They do pop in (as do the fronts) with a good press and lots of lube.

Edit:

BTW, I know this is a family forum, and try not to infer too much : for resistant rubber bushings, windhield seals and chrome trim, try silicone gel. There's no moisture and no petroleum by-products :thumbup:. I won't name a brand but a Google search will get you some. The [car!] parts will slip in easily and it also may "open up" new "venues" in your relationship   :sly:


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

I have run both poly and rubber rear bushings and really found little difference in ride quality etc., much less than front ones. Only big diff really was installing the poly ones is a bit easier.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Another hot day here in the Windy City so we're gonna finish up chores and go to the pool, but while it was still cool enough to work on the car I got the new water pump installed and I redid the front water jacket:










I was surprised to see that whining to myself "I KNOW I did the water jacket right" didn't stop the leak 

But redoing the job solved the problem completely. I guess that means I made a m-

a mi-

I made a mis---

Geez, I feel like if I say it I gonna dislocate my tongue .

I made a mistake. There. I said it.

Anyhoo, here's a better look at the reduced A/C bracket:










In case you're wondering how durable a Ryobi angle grinder is, it will cut off exactly 98% of the excess iron off of one A/C bracket. Then it's in the garbage.

Finally, here's a pic after filling the coolant, running the engine, and cycling the cooling fan:










Totally dry :beer::thumbup::heart:


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

echassin said:


> But redoing the job solved the problem completely. I guess that means I made a m-
> 
> a mi-
> 
> ...


:laugh:


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

echassin said:


> In case you're wondering how durable a Ryobi angle grinder is, it will cut off exactly 98% of the excess iron off of one A/C bracket. Then it's in the garbage.


Get a Harbor Freight one next time. They last through at least 4 brackets. 

Brendan


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> Get a Harbor Freight one next time. They last through at least 4 brackets.


And probably half as expensive to boot!


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

Ah, but if he's had it(Ryobi) for less than 90 days they will give him his money back. Over that, they will fix or replace it(depends on the tool tech).


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I got no beef with the Ryobi, it was a few years old and worked out fine, especially considering how hard I used it. In fact I just got another one. For $30, I don't mind replacing it every few years.

I have good leads on a hood and a dash (Thank you Dan!) and splash shields (Craig), and even some 15x7 et 28 dished Ronal R8s in Florida, so while actual work has ground to a halt, shenanegans are going on behind the scenes.

I am anxious to see the new calipers. I ordered Mk3 Golf calipers hoping they'll bolt up with minimal hassle and solve the frozen handbrake tendancy that the older calipers have.

We'll see...

BTW, headlights are on the short list; 'anyone have a spent headlight setup from a Mk1? I need the hardware, trim rings, and mounting brackets (OK, OK, I need the whole darn thing )


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alright!

Round eye setup is on its way from the stores of SciroccoJim :thumbup:.

Less than 1 hour from request to resolution. I love this place :beer:


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

He has a hood too...


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Michael Bee said:


> He has a hood too...


 And it's already Tornado Red, too.


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

scirocco*joe said:


> And it's already Tornado Red, too.


 Thanks, guys, but we spoke about that and Eric already got the hookup on a cheaper one. Mine was just too nice for him. :laugh:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

sciroccojim said:


> Thanks, guys, but we spoke about that and Eric already got the hookup on a cheaper one. Mine was just too nice for him. :laugh:


 sciroccojim's standards *>* echassin's standards 

 

_(at least when it comes to Mk2s...)_


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

All jokes aside, Jim's doesn't need to be painted and belongs on a Tornado red car with original paint, as one would not expect the original paint on the hood to match my new paint. It would be a shame to repaint Jim's hood just to make it match. 

Dan (Mr. Pill) has a hood that needs repainting, which makes more sense. 

In anticipation of Jim's headlight brackets, I need to wrap up the front end a bit. 

Hood latches, with the golf tee thingy that I found stuck in the grime up by the firewall, and which the Vortex helped me identify : 



















Astute observers will note that in these photos I've ground down two small stress cracks that somehow eluded weeks of fawning on the bare shell :what: 

Welded up and touched up: 



















Next the grille, which will assist in the layout for the headlights: 










I'm not sure yet how I'm gonna do the headlight surrounds or the eyebrow look. 

Hood latch striker plate rivetted back into place: 










And finally, today's cool tip: 










The rear inner bearings have seals to protect them, but the seals have steel shields that go over them. Mine were toast and I can't find new replacements. These are the tops of Kiwi shoe wax tins, and they're perfect  

Struts and rear suspension parts hopefully to arrive soon, 

and I gotta pay the man for his Ronal R8s. 

Unlike Walt, I personally do NOT hate money, and I'm finding that a lot of mine is missing


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Unlike Walt, I personally do NOT hate money, and I'm finding that a lot of mine is missing


 In truth, I rather enjoy money, and parting with it can actually be quite fun, depending on what it is in exchange for. :thumbup:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

I'm gone for a few days, communing w/ Goats, Banana Slugs, Poison Oak, a Black Cat (who tithed me a _bat_ btw), annoying Peacocks, Poison Oak and a (still) frozen up piston in a Ford tractor. 

And look what you guys get up to in my absence. 

Shenanigans indeed. 

Two out of three freed up pistons do Not a running tractor make. I'd rather be wrenching Sciroccos.



TBerk
e-brake, yes


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

scirocco*joe said:


> In truth, I rather enjoy money, and parting with it can actually be quite fun, depending on what it is in exchange for. :thumbup:


 Well after reading this thread astute observers/readers will notice that Eric buys the high quality lube, and that seems like a good start to lots of fun


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

This thread is going down the toilet fast, but I suppose it's my own fault


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

echassin said:


> This thread is going down the toilet fast, but I suppose it's my own fault


 I object to your negative take on the proceedings thus far; besides I have it on good authority that Redheads appreciate Lube, when it's called for. But don't skimp...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I wasn't talking about the lube, I was referring to the communing with goats


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## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

echassin said:


> I wasn't talking about the lube, I was referring to the communing with goats


 
Plus plus Q...I mean T-berk mentions poison oak twice...why twice???


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

echassin said:


> I got no beef with the Ryobi, it was a few years old and worked out fine, especially considering how hard I used it. In fact I just got another one. For $30, I don't mind replacing it every few years.
> 
> I have good leads on a hood and a dash (Thank you Dan!) and splash shields (Craig), and even some 15x7 et 28 dished Ronal R8s in Florida, so while actual work has ground to a halt, shenanegans are going on behind the scenes.
> 
> ...


 The MK3 calipers work fine, however i wouldve went mk4 on them though since theyre aluminum.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

SciroccoPowered said:


> The MK3 calipers work fine, however i wouldve went mk4 on them though since theyre aluminum.


 You're supposed to tell me that BEFORE I order


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

That grille screams for some Forever black.... :wave::thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Falcor said:


> That grille screams for some Forever black.... :wave::thumbup:


 The only screaming that grille is gonna do is when I hit with the cutoff wheel . I'm trying to make it work with quad rounds.


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## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> ....
> 
> Dan (Mr. Pill) has a hood that needs repainting, which makes more sense.
> 
> .......


 It is actually in perfect condition too and does not need paint, your car is just the wrong color for my extra one is black! (The one I have that needs paint is being used for Gino) 
-Dan


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## punchbug (Jul 15, 2000)

Neptuno said:


> Plus plus Q...I mean T-berk mentions poison oak twice...why twice???


 I imagine he avoided stepping in open batch of it only to trip and fall into the second batch!


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## Thrasher (Jul 18, 2003)

Althought we are building our cars for different purposes, this thread makes me feel so half assed in my build, hah. I may have to put in extra effort so I can somehow come remotely close to comparing. :thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> The only screaming that grille is gonna do is when I hit with the cutoff wheel . I'm trying to make it work with quad rounds.


 You should try and find a Mk1 Zender grille: 










:thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> You should try and find a Mk1 Zender grille:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Heck yeah!


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Neptuno said:


> Plus plus Q...I mean T-Berk mentions poison oak twice...why twice???


 Well, 1st you have to avoid the 'Leaves of Three!'  & _then_ you need to avoid the dead and dying stuff that retains it's ability to apply the irritant upon the unwary... :sly:

Or maybe it's when you think you're safe and let down your guard, only to find your shoes are (invisibly mind you) contaminated and transfering itchy stuff all over the place. :banghead:
(I was lucky, and/or diligent enough, to avoid contracting a case of the burning itchies in unmentionable places... ):facepalm:. 

btw; There _where_ Goats about, and sometimes I am one...



punchbug said:


> I imagine he avoided stepping in (an) open batch of it only to trip and fall into the second batch!


 Well, Punchbuggy- There was someone worth tripping and falling into,  now that you mention it, but that remains a goal for a future return trip... As it were... 


Nevertheless, having fulfilled the ValueAdded portion of my post,
I have a MkIII (make that *A3 chassis*) Question; 

Are these New Brake Callipers going to require an 'Upside Down and Other-side' Installation? 

As in- taking a Calliper, holding it in your hand and rotating it over the car to the other side; rendering it 'upside-down' on the other side of the car and bolting it up. 

This would also have the outcome of having the bleeding screws in a 'downward' location, necessitating a bleeding of the rears with them when unbolted to the car.

If this _is_ the case there might also be fitment issues w/ 'standard' issue e-brake cables. ('issue'.... Hmmm, say it slowly and w/ feeling....) 

But I digress, and while there is no doubt as to my insanity- (it's benign and conducive to success), 
I await a clarifying caliper clear-up. opcorn:

Pretty Car, Pretty Car, All Shiny and Red...


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I also read somewhere that the calipers need to be reversed, and I did wonder about the bleeding issue. 

But I don't have the hardlines made up yet, and if it fits on a Mk3, I don't see why they'd need to be reversed on a different car, assuming the caliper fits on the stub axle, and assuming I make the hard lines to fit. 

As far as the handbrake cables, they come out of the floor on a Mk3 too, so even if they're a bit different, I figure I can rig something up. 

Anxious to see.


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

They should fit in "normal" orientation. I swapped A3 rear disk setup on Laura's Golf, which is an A2 but I think disc-brake equipped A2 cars use the same rear brakes as a 16v Rocco. The A4 (VW) are the ones that require "flipping" when installed on an earlier chassis. The A3 rear calipers are a slightly different design than A2 or MKII Scirocco rears, I _think_ but otherwise mount the same. 

Clear as mud I suppose? 

Brendan


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

echassin said:


> As far as the handbrake cables, they come out of the floor on a Mk3 too, so even if they're a bit different, I figure I can rig something up.
> 
> Anxious to see.


 I think the only issue re: the cables. might be one of overall length. 
The solution, if one is even required, is to use a later cable, like A2, etc. 

My initial poke around didn't find what I was looking for as confirmation/support of premise...


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

TBerk said:


> I think the only issue re: the cables. might be one of overall length.
> The solution, if one is even required, is to use a later cable, like A2, etc.
> 
> My initial poke around didn't find what I was looking for as confirmation/support of premise...


 Ah yes, the cables. I seem to remember that you need the cable to match the caliper, so A3 caliper, A3 cable. The gotcha is that the Golf/Jetta have different cables. I bought A3 Golf disk cables to go on Laura's A2 Golf when I did the rear disk swap, but I have yet to install them to see if they work.  

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm still waiting on some hoses and boots for the rear brake setup, and the suspension won't be here till next week, but I now have enough parts to mock things up and answer some of the niggly things we've been pondering. 

The pics: 



















What we're looking at: 

1) The splash shields are from a mid 90's Jetta and they fit perfectly :thumbup:. I'll clean them up, but it's good to know that a car that is abundant in our local junkyards does have stuff we can use  

2) The A3 calipers fit perfectly without reversing them, so the bleeder is "up" as it should be. The brake line inserts on top, so I'll fab a new hard line. It'll stay above the beam as opposed to stock, where the line transitions to the bottom of the beam with added bracketry to support the bends. Simpler is better :thumbup:. 

3) The stock ebrake cable fits perfectly, and runs nicely along the stock route :thumbup: That's good to see, because if I'd had to get new handbrake cables, I would've demanded y'all pay for them, since I never wanted the ufcking ebrake in the first place  

The Ronals are paid for, and by the time they arrive the suspension and brakes should be sorted and the car will be a running and stopping roller (in its lightest possible state :sly 

SciroccoJim's Mk1 headlight brackets arrived, and if anyone has a lead on that Mk1 Zender grill and Mk2 eyebrow in the pic above, LMK. Thx. 

Anyhoo, many details to attend to before the struts arrive, so I'm off.


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

been on vaca, just catchin up while I'm sitting here sunburnt in the condo...IIRC, the upside down caliper thing is when you swap to disc on a caddy. You have to run them upside down and run 16v cables if you want an operational parking brake.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

re: cables might not fit callipers:

And here we are looking out for _YOU_. 


(Boy, living Vicariously here might get me in trouble...)


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> SciroccoJim's Mk1 headlight brackets arrived, and if anyone has a lead on that Mk1 Zender grill and *Mk2 eyebrow* in the pic above, LMK. Thx.


 
fs-replica-kamei-eyebrow-spoiler


----------



## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

Too much talk...not enough pics. 

Mi 2nd grade skooling dont like all dese words:what:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Tough crowd  

I have to get the races pressed into the rear rotors and then there'll be abundant pics. 

For now, here's everything primed and painted, even the new stuff, so it stays nice for a while: 




























I'm gonna go relax with a tasty beverage and dream of this thing off jackstands :beer: 

Goodnight ladies and gentlemen.


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Pressed in? Just hit it with a bfh.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

SciroccoPowered said:


> Pressed in? Just hit it with a bfh.


 Yep. I just did it yesterday on my new drums. Socket of appropriate size. I used a small bumping hammer. It felt so precise though, like using a dental drill to hang a picture on a wall.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I did it that way for the rear rotors when I converted my Cabby to discs. I even broiled the rotors and froze the races. 

It worked. 

But I didn't enjoy a feeling that it was neat and precise. 

So I'm having these pressed in. 

I hope it's OK with you guys


----------



## pltfnn (Aug 15, 2008)

I approve! 

This is your burlesque, we are just peeping through the windows opcorn: 

-Kelly


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today I got some parts on the car, 

Stub axles, splash shields, and the bearing seal shields (also from the donor jetta): 










Rotors with new bearings and new hardware: 










Dust cap pounded on with my special tool made of a piece of plastic pipe (no dents), and caliper assembled, loaded with pads, installed, with ebrake cable clipped on: 










The other caliper, the lines/hoses, and bleeding will have to wait for the next parts shipment, due end of next week, by which time the suspension should be on. 

The thing is inching closer to sitting up on its own


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Well, you know this thread arouses me, um, you know- intellectually.


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Zender Grille? I'll check mah stash. I think I have 4 or 5


----------



## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

TheTimob said:


> Yep. I just did it yesterday on my new drums. Socket of appropriate size. I used a small bumping hammer. snip....


 Ahhhhh. The SBH. You must have an amazing toolbox Timob.


----------



## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

echassin said:


> Today I got some parts on the car,
> 
> Stub axles, splash shields, and the bearing seal shields (also from the donor jetta):
> 
> ...


 maN NICE ENOUGH TO EAT OUT OFF!!


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Dust cap pounded on with my special tool made of a piece of plastic pipe (no dents), and caliper assembled, loaded with pads, installed, with ebrake cable clipped on:


 Nice touch. :thumbup:


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

If he was really a perfectionist he would fill-in the casting letters and numbers on the calipers with black paint.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

The tip of your parking brake cable is RUSTY! EPIC FAIL!


----------



## 16VScirrocco88 (Apr 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> I do need one of these in working condition:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Look what I found in a box of parts, I will claim the millions dollar bounty.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> If he was really a perfectionist he would fill-in the casting letters and numbers on the calipers with black paint.


 Paul (and Tim), the problem is not with me, you see. The problem is the car. It's a Mk2. It's already gotten way more attention than it deserved


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

echassin said:


> Paul (and Tim), the problem is not with me, you see. The problem is the car. It's a Mk2. It's already gotten way more attention than it deserved


 Ouch!


----------



## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

Epic signature !


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm honored  

I have to get cleaned up for Father's Day festivities, but I did have a chance to get some work done on the car. 

In keeping with the Mk2-bashing theme, and in an effort to make the thing more Mk1-like , I spent quite a bit of time tweaking the headlights, hack-and-tack style, until I was able to achieve a "browed" look without needing to add, well, an eyebrow. 

And I like it. 

A lot: 



















That's what it'd look like as one walks by the front end :thumbup: 

And this is what it would like as the car came up behind you: 










I still have a lot of work to do on them, and I need to fab up some filler plates that account for the stepoff from the inner headlight to the outer. But overall I'm very happy with the look, and I'm happy I was able to use the stock grille (since Mike B hasn't sent me any of his spare Zenders yet ) 

Anyhoo, Happy Father's Day *Raises tasty beverage*


----------



## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

dude i love where this is going:heart: 

what VW did you snag those lights off of, I've always loved the round head lights from the older cars, I wanted to swap out the old box lights for the round ones but wasn't to sure on what was the easiest to swap over


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

those are S1 lights 

and Eric. I think if we held a vote here, the "tasty" beverage you are raising, probably wouldn't be ranked the same amongst us (although I'm sure my wife would agree)...but a Happy Fathers Day to you regardless. :thumbup: :beer:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

No doubt this is a beer swilling crowd, whereas I have a sweet tooth for girly drinks  

The lights are from an S1 that SciroccoJim had (thank you Jim!), but there's a lot of cutting, measuring, welding, and repeating to mate them to the stock brackets. 

I'll try to take good pics when I have them off for finish work.


----------



## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

that's how it is when you do some custom touches :laugh: 

are most MK1 style of roun lights have the same style for the light housing?


----------



## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

echassin said:


>


 
No grease in the bearings??? 

Mmmmh....not really?!  

Or am I blind?


----------



## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

echassin said:


> Paul (and Tim), the problem is not with me, you see. The problem is the car. It's a Mk2. It's already gotten way more attention than it deserved


 This thread delivers! :laugh:

...and on the beer thing, try and find some Bootlegger's Palomino Pale Ale or Black Phoenix(if you like dark beer). The brewery is 2 blocks from my house and they make some mighty fine beer. They are blowing up and you should be able to locate some near you; if not today check again in a week or two. :thumbup:

Good work Eric, and happy Father's Day dude.


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

echassin said:


> But overall I'm very happy with the look, and I'm happy I was able to use the stock grille (since Mike B hasn't sent me any of his spare Zenders yet )


 I wasn't talking outta school. Realistically I thought I had 2. 1 painted in green and 1 new one. Looks like I have just the new one in my growing basement stash. I really wanted to save it for Butch. The badgeless look is it for me. Didn't mean to tease ya. I'm sure if you post a WTB in the classifieds, you will find one. I have faith in my fellow Scirocco brethren. 

The S1 lights look incredible on that machine of yours. :thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

All Eyez on me said:


> No grease in the bearings???
> 
> Mmmmh....not really?!
> 
> Or am I blind?


 Not to worry, the bearings are packed, as is the space between the bearings, as was the dust cap prior to impacting it into position. 

And Will, unfortunately, a beer is a beer to me, and has a smell, through no fault of its own, that I closely associate with emesis . 

Edit: lol Mike, I thought you were being sarcastic (you???), but no worries, I like what I got :thumbup:


----------



## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> A lot:


 Eric, 

That hood looks fairly decent? Maybe it's just the angles of the photos? Is it rusted out on the underside? 

Bring it with you if it is salvagable and I'll put it away in the barn. 

Dan


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Dan, it might be OK for a rough race car, but some of the frame is gone, including where the latches are supposed to go. LMK if you still want me to bring it. I was gonna junk it.


----------



## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> Dan, it might be OK for a rough race car, but some of the frame is gone, including where the latches are supposed to go. LMK if you still want me to bring it. I was gonna junk it.


 Junk it. See ya. 
-Dan


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## 868valver (Nov 3, 2009)

Just curious, How do you plan to fill the voids within the quad rounds and the side markers, with the stock grill? I often think about doing this mod on my S2. I've always thought that the mk2 GTI grill, cut to fit, w/ euro bumps is the best look. Love the build E.


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=5724479

:thumbup:

Just like that!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=5724484

^^

I like spending your $$$


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Any ready-made grille is out because while the spacing of the lights is the same as an S1, the lights are raised up to get the "brow" look. I'm set on the lights themselves, but the rest I have yet to work out. 

I just got back from a road trip to Dan's place (Mr.Pill), and boy does he deliver! 

Nice Dash: 










Minimal work to make it awesome. 

Perfect hood: 










And a gorgeous set of Euro bumpers that Dan assures me are old, but they look factory fresh: 










The bolts are still plated and the rebar is still totally black :thumbup: 

Finally, this also came: 










I was kind of surprised that the cost didn't include new strut housings, but thankfully I had a nice set from my hoarding days *phew*. 

Tomorrow after work I'll try to get some of this stuff on the car, but for now I'm gonna walk off all these driving induced aches and pains. 

A tout a l'heure.


----------



## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

You've got some cool parts there 
... looking forward to seeing them on your S2


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, 

Suspension assembled: 










Suspension installed: 



















And for a little levity, ridiculous liability sticker on door jamb (sp?): 










I also spent more time on the front end: 










The headlight brackets are done and installed for good, turns are working, and the headlight buckets are aligned (bulbs arrive tomorrow). I think I'll leave the stock grille off and make a fully inset grille out of welding rods to better emphasize the "brow". 

The last brake parts arrive tomorrow, Ronals get here Monday , but I'm out of town till the following weekend, so they'll have to wait . I'm still hoping to have a running, driving, stopping car with functioning electricals by Independance Day. 

At which point "all" I have to do is finish and install the other million parts


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

I got a feeling, down deep inside, I cant contain it any longer....



MuHAhahahahahaha...










< cough > Keep up the Good Work!


----------



## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> ......
> I just got back from a road trip to Dan's place (Mr.Pill), and boy does he deliver!
> 
> ........


 Good to see you again Eric. Glad you were pleased with the items and found them to be worth the drive. I felt I was just being a good stewart and holding on to them until the right home was found. 
-Dan


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

MrPill said:


> I felt I was just being a good stewart and holding on to them until the right home was found.


 I will try to do them justice :thumbup: 

Mixed results today. 

The last brake parts came and I put them on, bled the brakes with Petra at the pedal, got rock hard (the pedal, you perverts ), and adjusted the ebrake cables, all in about an hour. 

This is the final setup at the rear: 










The hard line is a straight shot, unlike stock where it has to wind around to the bottom of the beam with added bracketry to guide and hold it. 

Then, with plenty of daylight left, I mounted the headlight bulbs: 










So far so good, until I tested the lights. After 6 hours of ufcking with it until it was dark, no dice. 

Low beams: 










The high beam bulbs are getting low voltage and glow a bit when the low beams are selected  

When high beams are selected: 










Everything is off on the right and everything is working on the left. 

After pouring over the Bentley schematics and jumping a bunch of isht, I can say unequivocally that the problem persists when the dimmer switch is jumped, when the wires out of the dimmer switch are jumped, and when the fuse box pins are jumped. 

Which leaves the main harness in the engine bay, under the battery and the airbox  

This is one harness I didn't touch because it looked fine and there was nothing in it to delete. 

I don't recall if it worked right before I took the car apart... 

The plan when I get back in town is to jump the output the main harness in the bay by going straight from the output pins to the bulbs, so I'll need to make up some long wiring. If it works, I'll try to pull new wires without undoing or removing the harness (not optimistic...) 

So, in other words, this just sucks :thumbdown:


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

What about the turn signal switch?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

(duplicate post)


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

If you mean the headlight dimmer switch, I jumped that as one of the tests and the problem persisted. 

When I select "brights", the whole right side goes out. I know fuse S9 is getting voltage because the bright warning light comes on, but there's no voltage at the white wires where they meet the headlights. Tomorrow I'll check for voltage at pin C16, and if there is none, that would confirm a fault within the fuse box after the takeoff to the brights warning bulb, but before pin C16, and I would hopefully just need another fuse box. 

If C16 is getting voltage, then the white wire is faulty (at the very least...)


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

echassin said:


> If you mean the headlight dimmer switch, I jumped that as one of the tests and the problem persisted.
> 
> When I select "brights", the whole right side goes out. I know fuse S9 is getting voltage because the bright warning light comes on, but there's no voltage at the white wires where they meet the headlights. Tomorrow I'll check for voltage at pin C16, and if there is none, that would confirm a fault within the fuse box after the takeoff to the brights warning bulb, but before pin C16, and I would hopefully just need another fuse box.
> 
> If C16 is getting voltage, then the white wire is faulty (at the very least...)


 my S2 is the only one that hasnt needed a fuse box ive encountered, it's sad how crappy they seem to be, usually they have a problem with the turn signals not working cirrectky either because the fuse panel isnt giving switched 12v power to the hazard switch.


----------



## MKVmyfast (Sep 16, 2008)

Just glanced thru a couple of pages of this thread and I'm hooked already looking forward to reading thru the whole thread thus far :thumbup:

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

Actually, the problem is that the S1 headlights and the S2 headlights are actually wired slightly differently. 




























Basically, Mk2s have the headlight wiring different than the mk1. 


EASIEST WAY TO FIX THIS: 

Look at your S1's headlight wiring, and note where the colors are (on the ouside and inside headlight beams) 

Look at the S2's headlight wiring. Use tiny screwdriver to disengage the terminal clips and switch the wires to match what the S1 had them like.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

NO ISHT!? 

REALLY? 

Timbo, you're the MAN!


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Allow me to offer one more suggestion: 

RELAY YOUR HEADLIGHTS! 

Since you have to re-route your wires anyway, it just makes sense. 

Timbo's how to: 

http://www.vintagewatercooleds.com/tech/2007/relaying-your-headlights/ 

You will only end up using the low beam and high beam trigger wires and running new power and grounds. 

Also, get some Euro H4s. They are amazing! 

H4 outer headlights with city light: 

http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=115 

H1 inner headlights: 

http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=137 

:thumbup:


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

I actually relayed Leela's headlights after Cincy. 



















I initially hooked them up like a mk2, and weird things started happening, like the center lights glowing and such things.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Too late Joe  

I do know about the relaying thing, but headlights are something I never cared about upgrading. Chicago is so bright at night from ambient light, frankly you don't need headlights at all :screwy:. I'm happy as long as they work, which stock ones do. 

So Timbo gets the prize for pointing out the wiring difference, which I wouldn't have even considered in a million years (hence the value of a "second opinion"). I have to say that overall this forum is a fantastic resource :thumbup:. 

Low beams: 










The dim glow from the high beams is gone :thumbup: 

The right brights still didn't work, but that's a simple circuit to check. The C16 pin was getting 12 volts, so I knew it was the white wire to the high beams, somewhere in the bay. Probing the wire at the battery where the main harness splits up showed 12 volts, but near the radiator the voltage dropped to 3 volts. AHA! 

Sure enough, a small crack in the white wire sheath had allowed water to seep in over the years and rot the white wire. 

After unwrapping the harness and replacing the wire with a nice white wire from one of my junk drawers, here's the high beams: 










 

And here's the harness rewrapped where the original failure occured: 










I arranged everything so the harness are well sealed and have good support, so hopefully this won't happen again. 

Anyhoo, I have to go pack for some R&R :wave:


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

I hate to nit, but relaying isn't just for upgrades. Sure, the added illumination you get when you are running straight power from the battery to the lights is nice, but I feel the more important issue that you correct with relays is preventing your stock switch from melting/catching on fire. It has happened many times, especially with those running H4/H1 bulbs- even happened to me in my Mk1!!! 

Ok, getting off my soapbox now.  

Brendan


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> I hate to nit, but relaying isn't just for upgrades. Sure, the added illumination you get when you are running straight power from the battery to the lights is nice, but I feel the more important issue that you correct with relays is *preventing your stock switch from melting/catching on fire*. It has happened many times, especially with those running H4/H1 bulbs- even happened to me in my Mk1!!!
> 
> Ok, getting off my soapbox now.
> 
> Brendan


 

Yeah, a MK1 going up in flame is not that big of a deal, but a MK2 on the other hand... :wave::laugh:


----------



## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

Mtl-Marc said:


> Yeah, a MK1 going up in flame is not that big of a deal, but a MK2 on the other hand... :wave::laugh:


 You had to go there...:facepalm:


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

If the issue is just to keep the switch from catching fire, wouldn't it be much simpler to run one new power power from the battery to under the dash and wire 2 relays (high and low) to the headlight switch? I wouldn't relay my headlights in the way mentioned just because how much of a mess it makes.


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> I hate to nit, but relaying isn't just for upgrades. Sure, the added illumination you get when you are running straight power from the battery to the lights is nice, but I feel the more important issue that you correct with relays is preventing your stock switch from melting/catching on fire. It has happened many times, especially with those running H4/H1 bulbs- even happened to me in my Mk1!!!
> 
> Ok, getting off my soapbox now.
> 
> Brendan


 I believe we talked about this for your Rabbit GTI, Mr. Chassin. Typical surgeon. Why prevent when operations to fix are so routine anymore? 

 :laugh:


----------



## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

petebee said:


> You had to go there...:facepalm:


 Though he has it backwards :laugh:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> I believe we talked about this for your Rabbit GTI, Mr. Chassin.


 That's DOCTOR Chassin to you, Sir . 

We all can debate this POS ad nauseum, but the wiring in the S1 and the GTI is all 100% OEM, 100% fine, and it's staying 100% as-is until one of you claims the cars from my estate . 

So don't go there Joe


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

SciroccoPowered said:


> If the issue is just to keep the switch from catching fire, wouldn't it be much simpler to run one new power power from the battery to under the dash and wire 2 relays (high and low) to the headlight switch? I wouldn't relay my headlights in the way mentioned just because how much of a mess it makes.


 If I were to relay the lights (but I'm not), I would have one relay for each bulb, so if a relay fails on a fast stretch of dark country road, there'd still be another bulb on.


----------



## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

Or you could do what I do, leave the stock wiring in place, tucked away for use as a back up if need be, then I just run leads from the drivers side connecter to the relays, which I have 3 of... One for the low beams, then one for the outer light high beams, and one for the inner driving lights  

Oh, and I run Hella Optilux 80/100w H4's, and Hella 130w H3's which I got from rallylights.com


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> If I were to relay the lights (but I'm not), I would have one relay for each bulb, so if a relay fails on a fast stretch of dark country road, there'd still be another bulb on.


 Well, here's the ting - the stock s2 sealed beams are 55w. The stock s1 sealed beams are 35w. Downgrade in wattage = safer wiring = simpler = less to go wrong.


----------



## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

I'm enjoying watching Eric fend off all you hackers  

Go Eric!!!! 

Sincerely, 
-recovering hacker.


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Eric's car is red.


----------



## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

He let us win the handbrake discussion, lets let this one slide his way.


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

That's why I say 35w hid..... There I said it! 

No relays on mine, and all is well!


----------



## Chris16vRocco (Apr 30, 2006)

TheTimob said:


> I initially hooked them up like a mk2, and weird things started happening, like the center lights glowing and such things.


 Same thing happened to me when I relayed the lights on my 80.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Falcor said:


> He let us win the handbrake discussion, lets let this one slide his way.


 Good plan. 

I'm looking forward to the grille fabrication. :thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> I'm looking forward to the grille fabrication.


 Me too, but it'll probably be one of the last things to do.


----------



## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

Dang it I hate it when I have to scroll all the way to the bottom of the page and Eric didn't add new pictures.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We're on vacation, no work


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Just sitting here relaxing with my tasty beverage, pondering options. BTW, I just bought some apple cider, which is usually one of my favorites, but this isht tastes just like BEER :facepalm:, no apple flavor at all . So I bought some Mike's . 

As far as the grille is concerned, I'm considering the following: 

Recess the stock grille and extend it with two more stock grilles on either side with the "VW" hole centered on one of the bulbs. Trim to length, back with metal to hold it all together while trimming out the headlight buckets, final fitting, etc... I think it would look very OEM. 

So I need two more stock grilles, K? thx:  

Also, I had jotted some numbers on our Mapquest paper we used to get to this cottage, so having now added them up, here's where we're at: 

Weight: The 131 lbs we already weighed plus the sway bar x2 and hardware, plus the weight savings of the Eurobumpers, and some other bits brings us to 196 lbs off stock weight, so I'm guessing around 2000 lbs final weight, not bad. 

Cost: running, stopping shell with working electrical system = $6500 (I included about $500 for tires). I'm guessing another $500+ to have the wheels redone (maybe later), and 1000+ to have the interior redone to taste, so about $8000+ total without an engine rebuild . Again, we all knew this already, but the most cost-effective way to get a nice car is to spend a fortune shipping a low-mileage creampuff from as far as it takes . But to be fair, this one will be [kinda] sorted and done to my taste. Plus I've really enjoyed cashing in all these Marriage Points messing up the house . 

It's nice being on a break, but I shoulda had the wheels shipped to this cottage we rented, and brought some supplies to work on them, Petra woulda LOVED that :sly:


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

In for the Ronal R8s. :thumbup::heart:


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Plus I've really enjoyed cashing in all these Marriage Points messing up the house .
> 
> It's nice being on a break, but I shoulda had the wheels shipped to this cottage we rented, and brought some supplies to work on them, Petra woulda LOVED that :sly:


 If you were already cashing in those points, you should've just cashed in a couple more for the wheel preparation. :laugh: 



Mtl-Marc said:


> In for the Ronal R8s. :thumbup::heart:


 x2. Can't wait to see them in all their glory. :thumbup:


----------



## evildorito (Jul 12, 2004)

you sir.. are living the dream...  i have an 82 rabbit convertible that needs some tlc.. 

it took me 2 hours to get this far... and i tend to have a short attention span 
cheers.. :beer:

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk 2


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Oh crap... You really are on vacation



echassin said:


> We're on vacation, no work


 ^^ I thought Petra wrote this ^^


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

16VScirrocco88 said:


> Look what I found in a box of parts, I will claim the millions dollar bounty.


 Hey y'all; these can be 'rebuilt', with a pretty good success rate. If it's just leaking it can be sealed, but if the plastic layers are cracked it's done. 

Not bashing, just saying; can be done and I have. Part of the 'rebuild' process might qualify as preventive maintenance for the replacement vacuum switch. 

:beer:


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> I hate to nit, but relaying isn't just for upgrades. Sure, the added illumination you get when you are running straight power from the battery to the lights is nice, but I feel the more important issue that you correct with relays is preventing your stock switch from melting/catching on fire. It has happened many times, especially with those running H4/H1 bulbs- even happened to me in my Mk1!!!
> 
> Ok, getting off my soapbox now.
> 
> Brendan


 Yeah that ^. Unrelayed the circuit runs lots of volts/ amps over a longer- than- necessary path, increasing load, heat, and risk. 

Relays simply make it more efficient, with the added benefit of "safer" and "brighter". 

The lighting circuit of the Scirocco (Mk1 or Mk2) has always been considered weak, and poorly thought out. You're there anyway... do the upgrade now while it's easy. For all you know this car won't always be in a well lit urban area... if I'm out driving in the countryside I like lights that'll boil asphalt at 750 yds, 'cuz I'm going to be there in a second or two anyway. 

:laugh:


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Mtl-Marc said:


> Yeah, a MK1 going up in flame is not that big of a deal, but a MK2 on the other hand... :wave::laugh:


 All Mk2 owners should carry a bag of marshmallows, make the fire a party. 

:laugh:


----------



## Scirocco16 (Feb 4, 2012)

echassin said:


> *fast stretch of dark country road*


 That doesn't sound like a well lit urban area.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Scirocco16 said:


> That doesn't sound like a well lit urban area.


 Let me clarify, in case there are those who see a contradiction on my part: 

If I lived in a dark rural area, I might see the need for brighter lighting, and I might therefore see the need for relaying a circuit that otherwise might be overloaded, and I might consider relaying my lights. 

If I were to relay my lights, I would do so in a way that each bulb had its own relay, so that if a single relay failed, I wouldn' t be left in the dark. All of this was hypothetical discussion, because I live in a well-lit urban area, and the few times I might venture away, I don't yet see to be a problem. 

In order to keep my project moving forward in the way I see fit, I have decided to not relay my headlights at this time. I respect those who have chosen to relay them, but at this time I humbly request y'all respect my decision. 

Thank you for your attention, we now return you to your regularly scheduled programing.


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## Scirocco16 (Feb 4, 2012)

Yeah I know what you mean and I can respect your decision, I just had to point that out lol.  

I agree, let's return to the regularly scheduled programming now. :thumbup: 

It's looking awesome btw!


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

..... Or you could use 1 relay and keep one spare in the glove box, that may be easier...... If you were to do it that is, I also chose not to, but then again I only run 35w.


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Eric, you should drill some holes on the top of the bumper and put some KC lights. 

That would be coooooool.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Michael Bee said:


> Eric, you should drill some holes on the top of the bumper and put some KC lights.
> 
> That would be coooooool.


No, because, well...

just, no.

Anyways, back from vaca, and idle hands are the Devil's work, so back at it.

The Ronals were here waiting. They're in good shape, but they were blue :what::










I read somewhere it's not good to blast alloy wheels, but I did it anyway:










Painted and installed:










Astute observers will note the car already has a driver . I know the car looks silly this way, but I just couldn't wait to see the wheels on .

I should have the tires sometime next week, and then the car will be off jackstands! *hardeeharhar*

A good vacuum switch arrived gifted from Roger *Thanks Roger!*, so the vents are sorted. I simplified the setup, only running the main suction feed off a "T" into the valve and to the raintray servo. Whenever the car is running, the raintray flap opens and the car gets fresh air (I could also have just jammed the flap open, then it'd be like an early Rabbit, which has no flapper at all).

The only thing the valve controls is the defog flap. If you want defog you select that and manually close the dash vents. If you also want face heat, you manually open the dash vents. If you only want face heat, you move the valve to "vent" to close the defog flapper, and the dash vents blow. If you want only foot heat, you manually close the dash vents. The lower flapper has no servo, it's just locked with a metal rod to allow flow up to the dash and to the foot vents. If you want no foot heat but you want defog full blast, tough luck


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

Looking good duder, great shot!


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## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

echassin said:


> If I were to relay my lights, I would do so in a way that each bulb had its own relay, so that if a single relay failed, I wouldn' t be left in the dark.



you'd be in the dark when your headlight switch fails.
i'm running 4 relays. 1 for air horn, high beams,low beams, and 1 for driving lights(have none. just thinking ahead). they're mounted on a bracket in a row. 

if a relay fails i would just unplug one of the unneeded accessories and plug the headlights in.
i've had to replace the headlight switches in all my mk1's


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

VWsEatRice said:


> i'm running 4 relays.


I'm running four relays too...










...in the whole car 

My next goal is to get the windshield in, and for that I need the headliner in, and therefore I have to get the hatch bolted on (it bolts on from the inside).

Therefore, to summarize: in order to install my windshield at the front of the car, I first have to do the hatch at the rear of the car :screwy: 

I got the glass out and all the tidbits off the frame and found some rust, nothing awful.

Under the glass:










Pinch weld opened up and everything blasted:










Lower lip, I've already removed the inner skin to expose where the rust was between two layers:










Blasted clean:










More ASAP, but next week is supposed to be hot as isht, so I may hold off for a bit.


----------



## GTIanz (Feb 1, 2012)

>


Blasting alloys can be done as your photo shows. Just have to be careful and more delicate.

Media blasting is the most effective and non-damaging. Using silica to remove paint can be done but may cause pitting in softer metals.

What I wouldn't recommend is trying to remove Powder Coating on alloys with sand blasting.


----------



## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

what....no update...?? I need my daily restoration fix !!
Meeeddiiiiiiiccc!!


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

I for one am glad to see that this whole "vacation" foolishness is out of the way so Eric can focus on the really important stuff. :sly:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Sorry for the delay, but it's frickin HOT out, so I can't do isht without blinding myself with my own sweat within seconds 

That being said, I couldn't resist running to Pepboys and throwing whatever they had lying around onto the rims, so here we are...

it DRIVES:










Er, I meant: here it is sitting in the driveway. I don't know if it drives, because I couldn't drive it, because it's still missing plates, title, registration, and half the car for that matter 

But IF I had driven it, I'd be able to say that it runs, shifts, brakes and steers perfectly, and has an AWESOME power-to-weight ratio  I wouldn't have been able to say if it sounds good, because of the hooting laughter from the youngun.


----------



## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup: Great update

glad you got the wheels and tires on this Scirocco


----------



## Blueberryyogurt (Dec 27, 2011)

looking good! :thumbup:


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

echassin said:


> ) I wouldn't have been able to say if it sounds good, because of the hooting laughter from the youngun.


Make sure the youngun keep plenty their far distance from that there wheel gap or they may get eaten up like that *whistles*.


----------



## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

^He said it, not me lol.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I actually stood in the trunk and the springs hardly compressed, which makes me worry that I either got the wrong springs (unlikely), or I need to put on more weight (extremely unlikely), or else there's many hundreds of pounds left to put on the car (most likely)  

In other great news, the brand new water pump is leaking briskly through a nice split in the housing casting :what:, so another is on order.

Hopefully they'll refund my $50 without making me go through the trouble of returning the bad one...

...BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA, I can't believe I just said that 

I sprayed the hatch and managed to do it without dripping sweat into the paint (100 degrees today). I know the Arizona crowd deals with heat all the time, but with the humidity here, I can't stand it.

So, no more work for today, sorry.

Happy 4th !


----------



## Ghunt521 (Apr 29, 2012)

you like a god man....very very nice work you do. :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

echassin said:


> I sprayed the hatch and managed to do it without dripping sweat into the paint (100 degrees today). I know the Arizona crowd deals with heat all the time, but with the humidity here, I can't stand it.


We had the most bizarre and pleasant weather here today; it rained off and on today and maxed out at 85 degrees.. very pleasant.

Painters out here are really weird. They won't paint in the summertime due to the extreme humidity (12-18%); I think that they are just L A Z Y.


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## cholland_ (Apr 12, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> extreme humidity (12-18%)


extreme? ...humidity up here will be 81% tomorrow :banghead:


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## MKVmyfast (Sep 16, 2008)

cholland_ said:


> extreme? ...humidity up here will be 81% tomorrow :banghead:


I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic and shoot don't have to tell me about it being hot in the spray booth. Imagine me Monday thru Friday 8am-5pm spraying cars with long grey dickie pants black short sleeve work shirt full paint suit and a full face respirator (talking about the one that has the shield to cover my face from overspray) I don't complain because I love what I do but it gets really really hot in there but I do my job no matter what and I don't drip body fluids into my paint jobs either lol. 

Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using Tapatalk 2


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

It's regularly %99 here, it makes me glad i work in an un-airconditioned shop in a polyester uniform all day.


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

echassin said:


> I actually stood in the trunk and the springs hardly compressed, which makes me worry that I either got the wrong springs (unlikely), or I need to put on more weight (extremely unlikely), or else there's many hundreds of pounds left to put on the car (most likely)


Actually, if you bought the "correct" springs for a stock car you are in for an unpleasant surprise, as these cars sit WAAAY to high on stock springs.

...sucks about the pump, what a pita. And Happy 4th to you too! :wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

veetarded said:


> Actually, if you bought the "correct" springs for a stock car you are in for an unpleasant surprise


I meant "correct" for the kit. Stock springs would sit even higher because of the weight I took out, so that was out of the question. I got an H&R Touring Cup kit which is supposed to lower the car about and inch and a half.


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## sw05s2k (Aug 31, 2010)

echassin said:


> I meant "correct" for the kit. Stock springs would sit even higher because of the weight I took out, so that was out of the question. I got an H&R Touring Cup kit which is supposed to lower the car about and inch and a half.


I've got the same kit on my Mk1. It lowered it maybe half an inch.


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

I'm gonna guess that with the added weight of the hatch, glass, interior, etc... it will be enough weight to actually settle the car during driving, and after a few hundred miles of driving it should settle out nicely. :thumbup:

Wheels and tires look great, what tire size did you go with?

Brendan


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## cholland_ (Apr 12, 2006)

MKVmyfast said:


> I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic


I get jokes.



sw05s2k said:


> I've got the same kit on my Mk1. It lowered it maybe half an inch.


They lower the car an inch and an half from the stock, new springs. Then the springs hold up the car for 25 years and that number loses a little bit of meaning...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> I'm gonna guess that with the added weight of the hatch, glass, interior, etc... it will be enough weight to actually settle the car during driving, and after a few hundred miles of driving it should settle out nicely. :thumbup:
> 
> Wheels and tires look great, what tire size did you go with?
> 
> Brendan


I'm hoping the car will sit like my S1, a little lower than stock. The tires are 195/50.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Well, I coulda got more done on a day off except that it was 105 and humid today :what:. I did get most of the hatch done.

Installed:








I have to let the paint harden for a while (or cool down :sly:?) before sanding/buffing. The color match is good, so mixing the two gallons of color worked :thumbup:.

Hatch struts with new aluminum brackets I rigged up to replace the cracked plastic originals:









Glass roped in:









Wing:









Defog and license plate lights wiring in the rubber tube, and pulled through:









The other side of the defog is grounded on the parcel tray lift bracket:









License lights wired:









I also installed the rain gutters:









I still have to do the license light lenses and the trunk latch, but then it's on to the headliner, and after that, finally, the windshield


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## glidrew (Jul 25, 2002)

looks great eric. can't wait to see in person in august. we taking it to treffen?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

glidrew said:


> we taking it to treffen?


Yes, but not this year


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## Throttlepimp (Aug 9, 2004)

echassin said:


>


Love these wheels!!!

Mine:










The progress is awseome and very motovational!


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

The R8s are nice. What did you use for the black trim on the hatch? Spray or vinyl?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

d-bot said:


> What did you use for the black trim on the hatch? Spray or vinyl?


I sprayed the vinyl 

I chose R8s instead of my usual preference (Cups) because the R8s have the dished look of Cups, but I think R8s will be easier to live with on a commuter car.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, we're going out for the evening, but Petra said those magic words all women say: "I'll be ready in 5 minutes" :laugh:...

...so I went into the garage and gave the hatch a preliminary 1200/DA sanding and buff, and installed the license lenses and the badges:



















I'll sand at 1500 and buff it again when the paint is good and hard, probably when I do the whole car after final assembly.

Tomorrow I'll ufck with the latch and hopefully get the headliner in, and maybe glass on Sunday?

TGIF :wave:


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## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

opcorn:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alrighty, tedium at the rear of the car continues in an effort to finish the steps that lead to installation of the windshield.

The car had only one door handle when I got it, and the key didn't work it or the hatch, so first order of business was to make up 3 matching cylinders that all work with the same key, using spare parts from my "I can't believe I kept those all these years" drawer:










Latch installed and devoid of any extra bits that involved central locking:










The hatch will get another sand/buff when the paint has hardened a while; flow was poor because I used medium reducer when it was 105 out .

Next was all the padding that goes under [above:sly:?] the headliner, and hang the headliner:










The last things today were to glue the rear of the headliner, install the hatch seal, and adjust the latch to achieve a pleasing "thud" when shutting the hatch:










Annnnnnd it's time to relax with a tasty beverage, and enjoy this cooler weather :thumbup:.

Tomorrow I'd like to finish the headliner and break, er, INSTALL the glass. I'm omitting those claw strips around the windshield, BTW, and don't bother trying to change my mind


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Did you delete the rear washer jet? I know the wiper is gone but hard to see if the jet us as well.


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Looks like it to me


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Yes, body plug like everything else I deleted (no shaving)

Big day today because the weather was nice and I had lots of energy.

First I finished the headliner:



















We got the windshield in without cracking it :thumbup::










Quarter glass next:



















Foot well carpet:










Floor carpet, no padding, with the little one still trying to work off last month's rent:



















Shift console, and as I left off for the night:


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Looks boneriffic, this is what i would do if i had the money plus a port job and some autotech cams, amazing to see it coming together.


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

Looking amazing as always!

Did you use new glass/door/hatch seals? 

Brendan


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

echassin said:


> Yes, body plug like everything else I deleted (no shaving)



Do you have a pic of how you blocked off the spray nozzle, I may want to do mine.

Btw how the he'll do you get it out ?

Thanks


----------



## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

Looking very good man, your dam near completely done with the whole car, and I'm almost done with with just the motor finaly, man I need to get it in gear and start trying to get stuff done on my car


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Original seals, they were serviceable.

The rear washer comes out with force, IIRC I broke mine . The larger hole I plugged with a rubber body plug, the smaller hole I plugged with silicone using an old trick:

Use a hole punch on a thin piece of cardboard, tape the cardboard so the body hole shows through the hole in the cardboard, dab with black silicone, scrape off the excess, let harden, slowly remove the cardboard. The final result looks just like a tiny body plug :thumbup:


----------



## dubmax (Dec 1, 2004)

I have spending 2 hours reading this post and really is amazing how did you rebuild the whole scirocco, I want to see it finish :thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Corrected:



nickbukowy said:


> Looking very good man*.* *You're damn* near completely done with the whole car, and I'm almost done with with just the motor *finally.* *Man,* I need to get it in gear and start trying to get stuff done on my car*.*


Grammar is your friend!

*Dr.* Chassin, carry on! :laugh:


----------



## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

scirocco*joe said:


> Grammar is your friend!
> 
> *Dr.* Chassin, carry on! :laugh:


I thought it, but didn't say it. Didn't want to piss anyone off.

Now the flames shall lap at your shores instead of mine, Mr. Joe.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Is it possible to disable an IPad's annoying trait of incorrectly replacing words? It makes more typos than I do :what:

I had to work for real today and do some minimal Honey-Do list, but I did get the belts and rear cards in:










I think the belts are twisted wrong, but I'll play with them and see.

Oh, here's a pic of the deleted rear squirter, as requested:










There's no question that shaving all these holes would look better, but I like the plugs, and there sure are a lot of them all over the car now


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

sciroccojim said:


> I thought it, but didn't say it. Didn't want to piss anyone off.
> 
> Now the flames shall lap at your shores instead of mine, Mr. Joe.


It's ok, Jim. I always wear Nomex while browsing. 



echassin said:


> Is it possible to disable an IPad's annoying trait of incorrectly replacing words? It makes more typos than I do :what:


Settings > General > Keyboard > Auto-correction, switch to off! :thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> Settings > General > Keyboard > Auto-correction, switch to off


Mm. I have Settings > General > but then none of those other things 

I spent the day rehabbing the dash so that it would be presentable, but mainly durable. I'll use this one until I decide whether to have the other one professionally reskinned (I doubt it...)

The basic problem is that the dash is made of paper, so humidity warps the isht out of it, and reskinning it won't change that.

Case in point, the defog tunnel, so warped it's unusable as is:










I glued fiberglass rods to it to hold it straight, and soaked the area with thin CA (superglue) and hardener:










Next the defog and dash vent ducts mounted and sealed with duct tape:



















For the dash cracks, I used fiberglass. First lift up the edges:










Sand the undersurface to get good bonding:










Stuff fiberglass under one edge:










Then the other:










Fill the crack with carbon fiber powder (I sanded a rod and collected the dust), and soak the area with thin CA:










Repeat for every other crack, no matter how tiny, to keep them all from getting bigger.

Final result:



















By no means a concours restoration, but a durable repair that should hold up well considering the car will live outside.

It's bath time, but I was able to get the dash plopped in for the night:



















I'll screw it in and hook everything up tomorrow after work.

:wave:


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Mm. I have Settings > General > but then none of those other things


From the Settings app, you have to choose General on the left nav, then scroll down on the right side to Keyboard like this:










Then you'll see the switch for Auto-correction on/off.










Also, the dash work is nothing short of ingenious. I really like the sanded down carbon fiber rod filler. Solid work as per usual. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

When you are done, your car will feel like this:










And You, will feel like this:










But _we_ shall all know the truth sir...










MuHahahahahahahahaaaaa.........


----------



## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

TBerk said:


> When you are done, your car will feel like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


this right here, just made my night


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> QUOTE]
> 
> That's just a great pic on many levels :thumbup:. The car may FEEL that way, but it definitely won't LOOK that good
> 
> Joe, it didn't occur to me that I could scroll down! I'm no computor genius, that's for sure, but now I got it, thx.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> By no means a concours restoration, but a durable repair that should hold up well *considering the car will live outside*.
> 
> :wave:



:screwy:

:laugh:

:wave:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

There aren't enough beds here for everyone, so the Red-Headed Stepchild will sleep outdoors 

I finished most of the dash today, screws all in, consoles in:



















You can see how warped the dash got over the years, but it's serviceable. I'll make a cubby for the hole where the radio, ashtray, and gauge used to be.

The underdash driver's side:










There's not much left , but everything I want's there, and I'm happy to report that all of the instruments, electricals and vents work well. The absence of the dash vent servo makes no difference, believe it or not: closing the dash vents with the levers just forces all the air out to the footwells, but opening the four [large] dash vents lets the air follow the path of least resistance, and the footwells get nothing.

The passenger footwell is pretty much empty:










Lastly, I got the lower rear seat in:










Sticker shock means that I'll keep the stock seats for now. The upper rear seat and the driver's seat need some work, but relatively minor :thumbup:

The new water pump arrived, and I'm anxious to put it in because I've developed this strange worry that the block is cracked, not the [first] new pump. Somebody reassure me that it's the pump


----------



## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

It's the pump.


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Agreed, gotta be the pump. 













But...













There's always J-B Weld... 

:laugh:


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> The new water pump arrived, and I'm anxious to put it in because I've developed this strange worry that the block is cracked, not the [first] new pump. Somebody reassure me that it's the pump




Yeah, these blocks are known to crack in half overnight for no apparent reason. :wave:


(just kidding) :laugh:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Mtl-Marc said:


> Yeah, these blocks are known to crack in half overnight for no apparent reason. :wave:
> 
> 
> (just kidding) :laugh:


Now, be nice . Ah neever had no 16V a-fore.

I know the early 1.7s are prone to cracks between the headbolts and the water jackets, so I thought "who knows?"

In any event, I changed the pump and [so far] everything is dry .

The fan does run an awful lot, though , even though the water temp gauge reads about 1/2 way up or less . I wonder if it has a low temp thermostat? I know the radiator is a small early one, but I've seen those used in other 16V cars and I don't recall excessive fan run times...

Fluids look good BTW, no cross contamination, milking, or foaming.

Thoughts?


----------



## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

Kinda sounds like it may be the thermostat, because if you live in an area were it gets pretty hot, some people change out the stock thermostat for one that kicks on earlier to try and keep there motor from over heating to fast, so the sooner it kicks in the less of a chance the motor will over heat

Just my opinion


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Do you know what temperature the fan switch is set to come on at?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

SciroccoPowered said:


> Do you know what temperature the fan switch is set to come on at?


Mm, no. The water temp needle sits right over the warning LED and the fan comes on, the needle stays about there, and the fan often stays on until about a minute after I shut the engine down, no matter how long I wait. Sometimes the fan will shut off briefly and then cycle soon thereafter. Driving soft, driving hard, idling, all make little difference as to the position of the needle. The car runs great 

Anyhoo, here's the New new pump:










Then I took the good parts of both front seats and made a perfect passenger seat:










The other bits need work, but not bad.

Lastly I made a cubby for the hole in my center console, big enough to hold a Happy Meal:










I'll glue it in tomorrow; nite nite!


----------



## Ghunt521 (Apr 29, 2012)

Great work my friend, this thing is looking pristine man  :thumbup:


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

I would guess you have an oem temperature thermostat but a low temperature fan switch if i were going to guess why. I'd switch to a 180* thermostat, or get an oem temp fan switch.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

That would make sense: the lower radiator hose does stay cool until just before the fan comes on the first time, which makes me wonder if the fan is coming on before the thermostat even opens.

Maybe I'll try without the thermostat as a test, but that means I gotta drain this pig AGAIN


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

You could unplug the fan switch ( run wires to manually turn it on if necessary) and drive down the highway and see if the temp gauge goes up any higher.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

That's a good idea, but it'd have to wait till the car is more "legal"


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I had some other things to attend to today but I was able to get my little cubby mounted:










I liked it this morning, but now, seeing it in the pic, it looks too "square" compared to the cubby below it, so I'm not sure what I think of it. It'll have to do for now because my goal is to finish all the nicknacks and move onto the doors, fenders, hood, and kit, bumpers, sunroof, etc...

The upper door seals are clipped into position but they were also held with strong double-sided tape that was super thin. I settled on Gorilla brand carpet tape which worked perfectly:










Like the seam sealer I used on the shell, this tape is a lot like "cartoon glue" (picture Wile E. Coyote getting stuck to everything ).

Taped and clipped into position:










Lastly, I made rear speaker delete plates, glued the carpet that covers the speaker trays, and mounted the parcel tray:



















I had to rig up one hanger and the two thingies that hold the tray in position. I had them when I dissassembled the car, but like so many parts that go into any of my projects, some just "disappear", say when a basketball goes crashing into my neatly laid out stash.

*Cue "it wasn't me!" denials from the litlle ones*.

Hopefully they'll turn up later 

Tomorrow, a big step: I'm going to restore the wipers!

Inside joke alert: there was an absolute POS a few years back in the classifieds, and the ad proudly proclaimed that the wipers had been "completely restored" (they were the only nice pieces on the car :sly. Just the way it was worded was so hillarious that now I always pause to comtemplate the weightiness of this restoration step :laugh:.


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Wait, no stereo? Not even a 4 channel amp with an auxiliary input?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The only song this thing'll play will come from the engine bay...

...and from beneath the floor (all the insulation is gone )

My GTI is a covetted zero options car and I love it that way, and this car will be an Ode to the GTI 

Not even cup holders.

ESPECIALLY no cup holders


----------



## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

echassin said:


> The only song this thing'll play will come from the engine bay...
> 
> ...and from beneath the floor (all the insulation is gone )
> 
> ...


Wait until the li'l shaver gets it. Which is part of the plan I am sure.

He'll have different ideas, whereuopon Mr. Chassin will be doing some soul searching.....

But then.... if this car goes SCCA.... zero options would make sense.

Which is what I would do if I had a boy. (Says Mr. XX squirter).

Looking great Eric.


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

echassin said:


> The only song this thing'll play will come from the engine bay...
> 
> ...and from beneath the floor (all the insulation is gone )
> 
> ...


All this talk of tasty beverages and no cup holders, 'c'mon now!


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

ziggirocco said:


> All this talk of tasty beverages and no cup holders, 'c'mon now!


Road sodas? Pishawwww. Only at Cincy?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The weather was nice today and everyone was doing their own thing, so I got a lot done on the car.

Most important, the wipers :










Then I started work on the seats. Here are the holes and broken down foam on the driver bolsters:










The cushion cloth is nice...










...but the burlap isht on the sides is rotten:










(The rear upper did that too).

With the upholstery off, I was able to rig up new release cables:



















The foam is supported by this mesh that breaks down. I've had good luck in the past glueing duct tape with contact cement:










The missing foam is patched and reinforced with duct tape/contact cement;



















JoAnn Fabric had a perfect match for the vinyl (the backing is the same too :thumbup, upholstery thread, a needle and a thimble for $18 .

Here is the side bolster (hand stitched):










And the cushion sides redone, also hand stitched:










And the assembled seat bottom:










I'm really happy with it, and tomorrow I'll do the same for the upper, and hopefully the rear too.

But now it's time for some home-made chocolate ice cream *yum*


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Ohhesgood.....


----------



## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

Jesus, sewing the vinyl???? Wow. That looks great.


----------



## Fein1 (Mar 8, 2002)

16v run hot. Did you put a small non overflow radiator in? I had to get an ac car non overflow radiator for mine after issues at tremendous 1.

C


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Fein1 said:


> 16v run hot. Did you put a small non overflow radiator in? I had to get an ac car non overflow radiator for mine after issues at tremendous 1.
> 
> C


Lol, I used your car as my reference point, thinking you had the little radiator. It looks like I may need another radiator then .

I got the upper seat done today:










The upper seam is a little rough, but it took two tries to get the cover to fit without wrinkles, and I don't dare do the seam again for fear of too many needle holes in the material.

Seat assembled:










And installed:



















At which point I noticed the seat back adjustment is jammed :facepalm:. I guess I'll have to take the thing apart again someday. For now I'm tired of working on it, and overall it's nice enough that I'm actually kinda proud of it for a first effort.

We're gonna have lunch and go to the pool to cool off :wave:.


----------



## 16VScirrocco88 (Apr 13, 2003)

crazyaboutrocs said:


> Jesus, sewing the vinyl???? Wow. That looks great.


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Michael Bee said:


> Ohhesgood.....


^^


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

{Darth Vader Voice}Impressive.{/Darth Vader Voice}


----------



## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

echassin said:


> Lol, I used your car as my reference point, thinking you had the little radiator. It looks like I may need another radiator then .


I'm running the small radiator in my 16v with no problems, but then I am running the flex-a-lite dual setup on it too. It's never run over the half mark even on really hot days. I have a my stock 16v radiator for an A/C car laying around, PM me if you're interested. The car is looking great, awesome work :thumbup:


----------



## GTIanz (Feb 1, 2012)

echassin said:


> The weather was nice today and everyone was doing their own thing, so I got a lot done on the car.
> 
> JoAnn Fabric had a perfect match for the vinyl (the backing is the same too :thumbup, upholstery thread, a needle and a thimble for $18 .
> 
> ...


Your skills as a surgeon may not directly translate to welding but WOW!! this is very impressive. I'd have no problems letting you stitch me up.


----------



## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Yes, doctor, I would love a french seam suture to close up my laceration today. :thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

You guys are goofballs

Today I replaced the side material on the rear seatback:










So I was able to get the seatback installed:










Which leaves us with the car in this state:










A running stopping shell with the interior but no bodypanels, and I'm at about $6500 and I didn't touch the engine or gearbox :what:

Things that remain to do: doors/cards, fenders/liners, hood, kit, bumpers, sunroof, gas door, grille, details, title/plates


----------



## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Looks like it would be fun to drive as is...


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

It is always amazing to me what restoring a car the right way costs when you do it the right way... And think about what it would have cost you had you paid someone else to do it.


----------



## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

man its turning out freaking amazing:thumbup:

cant wait to see it actually finished


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)




----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

PoorHouse said:


> Looks like it would be fun to drive as is...


I can neither confirm nor refute that :laugh:

Paul, the shell is done "right", but the rest is being done just to my current satisfaction, keeping an eye on expenses, and knowing that I can always revisit later whatever details bother me.

I think I'll tackle the fender rust next.


----------



## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

echassin said:


> You guys are goofballs


^ This from the guy doing this build...pot meet kettle.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okay, as promised, here's the rusty driver fender:










In stark contrast, the passenger fender stayed perfect 

Rusty metal cut out:










Inner skin patch:



















Patches welded in:










Welds dressed and fit tweaked:



















I'm happy with that. There are no bolts; the fender is just hanging there, so it should yield even panel gaps without any strain or tweak on it :thumbup:.

I also weighed the remaining parts, in order to load the suspension correctly and align the front end. The hood, fenders, and liners weigh 65 lbs, and I'll put that amount on the intake manifold. The bumpers, kit, doors, and sunroof, weigh 205 lbs, and I'll divide that amount among the four footwells. BTW, I was pleasantly surprised that the kit only weighs 25lbs, so having "the look" won't unreasonably burden the little 1.8 

Tomorrow I'll also try to dissassemble the doors.


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looking good!


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc,









Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc, Gotta get a Roc,.....


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

It's frigging HOT here today, and we were gonna go to the pool, but then it started RAINING.

So, to summarize: it's HOT AND RAINING. I don't mean to yell, but WTF? 

So I dragged my listless a$$ into the garage and stripped down the passenger door. It has rust holes around the door handle like a lot of S2's seem to have, but I have spare doors...

...which as it turns out have the same problem .

So once the original passenger door was empty, I cut an access hole to get a better look, and while I was there, I cut out this huge tube that was in the door, yet wouldn't do isht for me if an SUV were to T-bone me *dons flame suit*:










The door handle area is double layer and traps water, hence the rust:










I solved the double layer issue with my usual ablative methods :sly::










I haven't decided hunnerd percent how I'm gonna fix that, but I'm thinking blast it till it's shiny, then fill the holes with the MIG and a backing block of aluminum, then grind it all smooth (that method worked great on one of the holes in the gas tank recess). I'll also rework the handle mount itself so it's one layer of metal and won't trap water again.


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Well, ain't that a pain in the arse. 

Bear in mind, the double layer is most likely for strength, since you have to haul the door open repeatedly. That said, without the structural crossmember in there, it will be lighter. Just wouldn't want you to deform the door opening it after you've gone to the trouble of fixing it so thoroughly.

However, this is just my two pennies. Carry on!


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Well I would not compromise safety, that said, blast it and then see hat is left, you could get a donor panel section, there are also replicas made at times for patching panels. I ever need to fix mine ( I do), I may just try and fit Audi handles and be done with this crappy design. Thy all stemmed to rust between the outer shell and the double layer.


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

id love to see how you fix that


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

SciroccoPowered said:


> id love to see how you fix that


Ya, me too...

I've never seen an S1 rot around the front door handle hole, which makes me think the S1's were built differently and may be worth copying.

Now, I know I have an S1, but I don't wanna take it apart to see how VW did it. Does anyone know for sure? Is it just the outer skin on an S1?

Until I know, I'll just keep tearing down and cleaning the other panels.


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> ... I've never seen an S1 rot around the front door handle hole, which ...


It is because the whole car rots faster than the surrounding door handle area IMHO. opcorn:




My S1 doors confirm this theory. :laugh:


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

echassin said:


> Ya, me too...
> 
> I've never seen an S1 rot around the front door handle hole, which makes me think the S1's were built differently and may be worth copying.
> 
> ...


mine has the same issue, and I am still on the original paint so I know it was never repaired.

Sometimes it is just an error in assembly process, or in materials selection (primers, metal prep, welds etc), you can also see this sort of mistake on many older hondas at the rear wheel arches, there was seam sealer "over used"which produced a rot situation. Something similar must have plaugued our cars. Maybe the primer used was not weld-thru, or was not used at all, who knows.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't recall ever seeing that inner structure on any other S1, Rabbit, Cabby, etc...I'd like confirmation though.

We're gonna go cool off at the pool, but I got some work done on the hood.

Gooey mess removed from the inner skin, where all the sound deadening was glued:










Then I got to looking at a small area on the front lip which had no seam sealer on it, and was a bit "brown", so I removed the overlying metal:










It turns out someone's been there with a patch and a MIG. Kudos since there is minimal filler on the other side, so they must've wanted it nice:










Bummer that the patch is rusted again, which means the fundamental problem of trapped water was still there.

Sure enough, almost the entire seam is involved, with some areas that have punched through the outer skin:



















There was still water in the seam as I cut it. I haven't decide how I'm gonna approach this either. I think I'll blast everything shiny, patch the outer skin as needed, "glue" the outer skin to the inner frame with seam sealer or fiberglass bondo, with numerous weep holes incorporated into the fix so that the problem doesn't recur. We'll see.

Next I have to tear down the other door. I want all the panels torn down and all rust cut out, so hopefully I only have to make a mess with the sandblaster "one" more time.


----------



## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

echassin said:


> I don't recall ever seeing that inner structure on any other S1, Rabbit, Cabby, etc...I'd like confirmation though.


I have a Mk 1 door shell I'd donate to the exploratory surgery. If I had a way to get it into the airplane I'd drop it off on the way to Wisconsin tomorrow.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

vwdaun said:


> I have a Mk 1 door shell I'd donate to the exploratory surgery. If I had a way to get it into the airplane I'd drop it off on the way to Wisconsin tomorrow.


You should be able to see inside enough to get an idea.


----------



## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

*The Hood*

Eric,

Sorry that the hood turned out to be more work that it appeared it would be.

So what was the trick to remove those springs/pins on each side of the front of the hood?










Look'n good!

Thanks,
Dan


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

Ya know, I could still bring sciroccojim's tornado red hood to you... I'm going by next Wednesday - the 25th. - only 90 miles out of the way on an 1800 mile trip? EASY.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

No worries Dan. If Jim's doesn't work out, your's is definitely fixable.

I got the spring pins off with an adjustable wrench. I assume you tried that, which makes me wonder if the nut is spinning behind the inner skin...

Timbo, I sent you a PM.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alright! Timbo and Becky will be staying here on Wednesday night on their way to Colorado, which, on a side note, is recovering from another random mass shooting and might take the prize for The Saddest Place On Earth .

Timbo, being the Mensch that he is, is hand delivering Jim's Tornado Red hood :beer::thumbup:, although I admit being curious as to how he's getting him, Becky, his luggage, and a hood into a Scirocco!

Anyhoo, work has stopped on the other hood, but I did get the sunroof panel stripped down to address some minor rust. I need a new seal which costs *cough* *gasp*...I can't say it...

I think I'll try JohnnyPhenomenon's fix.

I also got the other door stripped down and the rust is worse, and had been covered with Bondo:



















Lastly, the weather was very pleasant this evening, so I gathered up a few tasty beverages and cleaned up the car (not with the beverages; I drank those). I took a pointless pic of the car afterward because I just like the way it looks in this state:










Tomorrow and Tuesday I have to work for real (WTF? :what, but I hope to get the doors, fenders, and the sunroof panel blasted of any remaining rust. Wednesday it looks like we're gonna 

P-
A-
R-
T-
Y? "Because I Gotta! (Jim Carry in "Mask")

So maybe I'll get the doors patch welded on Thursday?

In the mean time, Adios.


----------



## 868valver (Nov 3, 2009)

Nice side pic W/out the doors! Cool perspective!


----------



## NateX (Jun 27, 2007)

Very nice work echassin! This is an awesome build! Reading through this, I have hopefully found enough inspiration to get off my azz and finish mine this fall. Thanks for sharing! :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Timbo and Beckob left this morning but we had a fun day yesterday driving the car around the hood. Video or it didn't happen: 



Jim's hood delivered safe and sound: 










It looks like I'll get away with touchups on the undersurface, which'll save a lot of time :thumbup:. 

Safe travels Timbo and Beckob :wave:


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

echassin said:


> Timbo and Beckob left this morning but we had a fun day yesterday driving the car around the hood.
> 
> Jim's hood delivered safe and sound:
> It looks like I'll get away with touchups on the undersurface, which'll save a lot of time :thumbup:.
> ...


 *
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy *

*Synergy* is two or more things functioning together to produce a result not independently obtainable. The term _synergy_ comes from the Greek word _synergia_ συνεργία from _synergos_, συνεργός, meaning "working together".


----------



## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

echassin said:


> Timbo and Beckob left this morning but we had a fun day yesterday driving the car around the hood. Video or it didn't happen:


 ^ That is hilarious. :laugh:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> *
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synergy *
> 
> *Synergy* is two or more things functioning together to produce a result not independently obtainable. The term _synergy_ comes from the Greek word _synergia_ συνεργία from _synergos_, συνεργός, meaning "working together".


 There is no doubt that this car is an excellent example of "it's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know [that matters] :thumbup: So many people have contributed parts, tools, time and knowledge :heart:


----------



## Ghunt521 (Apr 29, 2012)

echassin said:


> There is no doubt that this car is an excellent example of "it's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know [that matters] :thumbup: So many people have contributed parts, tools, time and knowledge :heart:


 Ever since I joined this site everyone on the rocco forums been nothing but helping people to me. 
So glad i got out of the honda game hahaha


----------



## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

Ghunt521 said:


> Ever since I joined this site everyone on the rocco forums been nothing but helping people to me.
> So glad i got out of the honda game hahaha


 That's 'cause you're in the Scirocco forum eace: 

now the MkIV forum, now that's a different story..


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

(flips on Barry White voice 'coder..)

that's Scirocco Luv, Baby... 


(Besides, this is a thread Titled 'Redheaded Step Child', who stereotypically doesn’t get any respect, and here comes dude that tells truth to the lie.) 

What's not to love?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I like irony and contradiction, so this car is perfect for me  

It was too hot to do much work again today, but in the evening it cooled off enough that I could blast any remaining rust on the various body panels, especially the door handle rot, but also around fasteners, etc... 

One of the doors: 










And the unpleasant surprise for the day (and what would any Day be without at least one unpleasant surprise? ), the sunroof "surface" rust blew through in no time. I removed the overlying 2nd layer of metal (are y'all noticing the theme? :sly, and the inner surfaces were crusty as heck. 

After blasting: 










I gotta stop making timelines as to when I'm gonna finish this thing, cuz I'm jinxing myself  

Tomorrow I weld. 

Goodnight!


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

echassin said:


> I like irony and contradiction, so this car is perfect for me
> 
> I gotta stop making timelines as to when I'm gonna finish this thing, cuz I'm jinxing myself
> 
> ...


 I am given to understand Plans are for the Weak.


----------



## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

TBerk said:


> I am given to understand Plans are for the Weak.


 right....which is why i think we are all i little crazy here...:screwy:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alright! We finally got some pleasant weather, so I made some real progress today. 

First up was patching the door handle damage: 










I used a combination of small patches and the trick of holding a lump of aluminum behind small holes and using the MIG to fill everything in. Works like a charm :thumbup:. 

As far as the door handles themselves, here's what I did. First, in order to keep things simple, I cut off that "hook" on the front of the door handle, so the only thing that penetrates the door skin is the retaining bolt: 










Door handle trial fit looks good: 










Here's what it looks like from the inside: 










I used a nut to hold the handle, instead of the way VW did it, which is to just shove the bolt through the doorskin :what:. I put the nut as close as possible to that big recess in the doorskin to take advantage of the natural stiffness there. My handle is nice and firm and doesn't wrinkle the skin even if I manhandle it :sly:. 

And the outer surface smoothed: 










Admittedly this area will see stress, so I used fiberglass impregnated filler. 

While I was at it, I smoothed the fender repair that I welded last week: 










That was the good part today. Unfortunately, the sunroof is a big disappointment: 










I played around with filling in the outer skin's pinholes, which was fine, but the reality is that the inner skin is completely rotten all the way across the rear lip, and the shape is too intricate for me to reproduce . Hopefully a good sunroof panel will turn up... 

Tomorrow I hope to spend the day on the doors, smoothing dings, priming and blocking. I want them nice and flat, so hopefully I can muster the patience for such tedium . 

Time to grill some chicken, asta la vista


----------



## shawkur16v (Jul 27, 2012)

echassin said:


> Finally, this also came:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Love this thread. I have been following this since the beginning. 

I have a question though. Where did you get your H&R struts?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

shawkur16v said:


> Where did you get your H&R struts?


 Their website listed distributors, I picked a local one. 

I admit next time I'll seek similar quality at a better price, if possible; I got 4 springs and 4 shocks for $750. I know "you get what you pay for", but that seemed like an awful lot, and there were no strut housings.


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

I seem to recall getting a better price than that for an H&R Cup kit (via the Potters @ Parts4VW).

Of course, that was a few year back as well.

Still, is it that you ordered ala carte?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> I seem to recall getting a better price than that for an H&R Cup kit (via the Potters @ Parts4VW).
> 
> Of course, that was a few year back as well.
> 
> Still, is it that you ordered ala carte?


 I ordered the complete set that is the same part # for all A1 cars. 

But yeah, almost $100 each for the 8 parts I got  

Today I sand, and sand some more, and then some more...


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Yeah block sanding!! My favorite!!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I have several promising leads on sunroofs already, I only need one so I hope I don't disappoint anyone after making a bunch of commitments  

Yesterday I got the inside of the door repairs covered in thick paint: 










And then I got the "access hatches" stitched back: 










Today I sanded and massaged some small dings on the remaining body panels: 










I'll do this a bunch more times do get things as flat as possible, but Petra came home with a new bathing suit, which is code for "let's go to the pool"  

Stay cool :beer:


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

Shiny-as-heck fender:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

I love code.

I remember code, and I miss code.

Crazy as it makes me- I hope to know, and be able to respond to, code again one day...

PS- great job w/ panel reattachment.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

More tedium today: 










I know these panels look the same in a pic as they did yesterday, but I fawned over them again all day today with the DA and blocks until only factory baked-on finishes remain. Every molecule of red or clear that was added at a later date is gone, yet I exposed as little metal as possible in order to minimize the chances of any peeling (the car will sleep outside in the elements). 

I also spent the day eliminating even the tiniest dings I could find: 










As an example, there's one on the lower left of the above pic which was not apparent with shiny paint, but which block sanding readily exposed as a persistance of red surrounded by exposed primer. 

Filling, sanding, filling, sanding, ... 

I also spent some time on the inner skin of Jim's hood, which I will clean and touch up as needed. I cleaned the small areas of rust with a Dremel. here's the first spot I did: 










Then I touched up the bare metal with Rustoleum primer, over which I'll dab on color. The inside of the skin likely has a bit of rust also, but I have a plan: 

My neighbor works at GE and when he saw my little spray can of Cosmoline, he chuckled and said "we have 55 gallon drums of that stuff at the plant. If you want, I'll bring you a gallon". HECK YEAH! 

It's the thick stuff. He said you heat it and brush it on, and it will flow everywhere before cooling and hardening. I'll do the hood skin, the fender bottoms, all the hard lines, the rear arches again, heck I may dip the whole car in it  

And more sanding


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

:heart::thumbup:opcorn:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Aaaaaaaand.... 

...a sunroof panel is coming from California :thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Aaaaaaaand....
> 
> ...a sunroof panel is coming from California :thumbup:


 Sweet business!


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## heerschap (Mar 18, 2009)

nice work! :thumbup: man the more I browse this fourm the more i want to buy that rocco i found


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you sir! 

Today my neighbor dropped this off: 










Real Cosmoline by the bucket, as much as I need. 

Hee hee. 

Ha ha. 

Muahaha 

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAA *cough* haha. 

I'm gonna slather the stuff on anything that dared rust in the first 25 years of service  

Then I finished the inside of the hood: 










All dirt and excess Cosmoline removed, the whole thing buffed my hand, and color touchups where needed. Not show-worthy but better than factory, so good enough for me :thumbup: 

Next is to gift wrap the inner panels and prime the outsides.


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

All Great stuff! I loooove reading your threads!  

Attention to detail and workmanship are always right up there. :thumbup:


----------



## S3sh1n (Jul 22, 2012)

its now 3am and it took me 2 hours to read all through this thread. if the textbooks i had to read in school were this interesting I'd be a rocket scientist by now. the complete rebuild is blowing my mind


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

^^^ Insomniac or nightshift ? JK; thanks for the kudos. 

Today was another scorcher, but I was able to shoot two coats of primer in the cool of morning: 










We hung out at the pool during the hottest part of the day, but after dinner it cooled off again and I had at it with the DA and 220 grit: 










I know you're all bored looking at the same darn panels, but imagine how mind numbing it is to sand every square inch of each panel day after day  

But in the twilight, the panels are already looking pretty flat :thumbup:: 










Tomorrow I have to work, but I think I'll clean up the inner doors like I did the inner hood. 

Then, if the end of the week isn't too hot, I'll cover the outer skins in primer again, take it all down with 320 grit, fix up what needs fixing, and go from there. No sense rushing to color since I'm waiting on the sunroof panel anyways. 

:wave:


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## Ghunt521 (Apr 29, 2012)

Its coming along great man. I learned a lot from your restore so far. :thumbup:


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## colodano (Jul 16, 2012)

^^ Agreed! When I have the time and space to get another Rocco, I will be using this thread for info and inspiration as I go through it! Car is looking amazing so far, and coming from a shop that did concours restorations, I hope that is saying something!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

High praise, thank you  The car won't be anything near show or concours quality, maybe "OEM plausible" would be a good term. 

Tomorrow I'm gonna prime formally, so I'll need to gift wrap all the inner surfaces. In preparation for that, I did the insides of the doors, the parts that will show but that I am not refinishing. I had good help, the little squirt actually has a good touch (where's the emoticon for beaming Dad pride?): 










We went around the door, me cleaning excess Cosmoline off with gasoline, him polishing with light rubbing compound and then touching up any scratches. 

Not bad for a six year old: 










And by "not bad", I mean ufcking awesome. 

Not much to show again, but two doors took us all evening, especially tedious around the hinges.


----------



## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

echassin said:


> .


 what as awesome picture :thumbup:


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

echassin said:


> Hee hee.
> 
> Ha ha.
> 
> ...











See?, See?, I told you!


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

-camber said:


> what an awesome picture :thumbup:


 Yes, good memories being made right there . I was surprised how good he is with a brush, but I should have predicted it: 










I think there might be an Oedipus complex thing going on around here... 

I wanted to do the final priming today but details held me up. 

First, I had to sand the hood slots, all 42 of them :what:: 










Then I had to protect the bottom of the driver fender repair: 










The way I handled the two-layers-of-metal problem was to tape up the bottom to make a closed cavity, fill it all up with rust preventer, let the excess drain out and when dry, repeat with primer and paint. Once the fender is painted, I'll repeat with the Cosmoline and then make sure the fender bottom can still drain. 

Finally I spent a surprising amount of time gift wrapping the insides of the panels: 










This'll keep the insides nice during the refinishing process :thumbup: 

Hopefully shoot gray tomorrow or Saturday.


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

I really enjoy the updates, Eric. 

For the brush/touch-up, do you mix paint with hardner and reducer? And are you using less reducer to make the paint thicker?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The paint comes already pretty thin, so I used it "straight". I'd never seen this before, but with this paint, you mix 8 parts paint and only 1 part reducer to spray. 

Another scorcher today, but in the cool of the morning I got two coats of primer on the panels: 










It baked in the heat all day, so I think it'll be nice and hard tomorrow so I can take it down with 320 or 400, with spot priming only as needed. 

After that, and when I have the sunroof panel, I can shoot color on these last pieces of steel. The kit I'll do after the body panels are on and the car is weather proof.


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

re: the afore mentioned Complex:

Pops used to work on his own cars- they where Citroen DS Wagons. 

One day, as the story goes, our step-brother came home and found Pop's legs sticking out from under the car, the jack and stand had toppled over.

Reseating the floor jack got the car raised up and Dad was extracted, w/ a sheepish grin and a crushed 3-in-1 oil can that apparently saved him from major injury or worse.

'Course, had this really been an Oedipal moment, the story would have gone much more like: "I got home and you wont believe what happened!, such a shame too...". 

Truth is, while I fully retain being Officially Taught on how to apply a patch to a bicycle tube, there are many other osmosis events that were very 'unOfficial', stuff that I retain to this day and have spread around. 

My vicarious enjoyment of your resto/refresh thread is indeed multi-layered and sublime.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Such similarity! 

My Dad also had DS's (and a few SM's), I too learned by osmosis, but I too recall the bicycle patch lesson . 

He and I are very different though: he likes his cars Road Warriors style, as in, he has no beef against Duct Tape and coat hanger, and he doesn't mind dull paint, rivetted sheetmetal patches, non-structural rust, etc... 

To his credit, the Citroens are far more complex and his always run like a top :thumbup:.


----------



## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

echassin said:


> Such similarity!
> 
> My Dad also had DS's (and a few SM's), I too learned by osmosis, but I too recall the bicycle patch lesson .
> 
> ...


 Only on the Scirocco list would two Citroen brothers meet. 

I love this list. 

Definitely says a ton about how unique our cars are.


----------



## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

And Eric's father wrote a book on Citroen purchasing and care back in the day that was very important to that community. I made reference to it on here a couple of years ago, not realizing this was his dad!


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Yup, and I've lived in the shadow of celebrity ever since . The book is "Why Citroen", and it has since been scanned to the Web. It's all about how to own a DS or SM, kind of blog style but long before the Internet, and it's chock full of the same irreverance that, er, um, well, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree . 

Today I did all the block sanding I could stand, until I could stand no more. I did it dry using a shop vac to keep the paper and the work site clean, and all I can say is I'll never wet sand again :thumbup:. Walt gave me the idea to do it when color sanding, and it's great: no muddy mess, the tape job stays neat, clear view of the work, and little scars that need to be fixed stay dry and can easily be marked with a bit of tape. 

First rule of sanding, don't ever sand with your hand, only a block, and only in an "X" pattern, no matter how tight the spot (I break the rule on occasion ): 










Here's a spot that needs more work: 










The low spot persists in spite of surrounding bare metal. I should have stopped sanding when the black guide coat left a central gray spot, but I got mentally lazy . 

Sanded hood, almost ready for paint: 










Guide coat on the fenders: 










Fender in progress: 










The guide coat really helps get the body lines arrow-straight. This one still had small bows in the middle, and a very light touch with the block above or below the line is all that is needed to correct things. 

Sanded fenders: 



















Tomorrow I'll do the same to the doors, :wave: :beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alrighty then, 

Block sanding is largely complete minus a few scars to attend to. 

Doors: 










I'm on hold for color until the sunroof panel arrives, which is fine cuz I need a break from this POS. 

I suppose I could start sanding the kit if the urge hits, but since it'll need flex agent, the kit'll need to be sprayed separately, and I'd kinda figured I'd leave all that for last.


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

How do you find the time??? Amazing job on all of it. :thumbup:


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

crazyaboutrocs said:


> How do you find the time??? Amazing job on all of it. :thumbup:


 He doesn't need time. He just does it anyway!


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

crazyaboutrocs said:


> How do you find the time??? Amazing job on all of it. :thumbup:





TheTimob said:


> He doesn't need time. He just does it anyway!


 I think that you are wrong Timbo; I think that he secretly has an 8v-powered red-colored time machine!!!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The secret is to omit half of the parts


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

TheTimob said:


> He doesn't need time. He just does it anyway!


 
Short step from *HERE*:










To *HERE*:











(disclaimer; This Post is Gender Non-Specific...)


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm pretty sure I don't look that good in my masks  

Today my trusty right hand man inquired "what're we gonna do on the car today" when I got home from work. 

If you don't have kids yet, trust me: such inquiries are unpredictable, and you never wanna pass one up... 

...but we're low on things that a kid could work on. What to do, what to do...? 

Door cards? Sure, why not? 

They consist of three major parts: a fiberboard frame trimmed in vinyl, a plastic inset covered in gray cloth, and a foam insulation backing. 

Now, astute followers can already predict the outcome: foam and cloth in the garbage (perfect for a little kid because it involves tearing, ripping, and general destruction), fix the loose fiberboard vinyl and the cracked plastic inserts (I did that because I used contact cement and Superglue with hardener), and assemble. Boom. Done. 

Fiberboard stripped of insulation, and vinyl edges reglued with contact cement: 










Plastic insert stripped of cloth, glue cleaned off, cracks superglued, fiberglass cloth superglued to back up the cracks (after roughing with sandpaper): 










Insert ShoeGoo'd to the fiberboard: 










Keith is proud because he applied the Shoe Goo, some of which ended up on the mating surfaces . 

Final result: 










The mirror switch hole and window crank holes will get patches using extra seat vinyl, which is actually a pretty good match and will give the same "delete" look that is a running theme all over the car.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Excellent use of slave lab......(ahem) indentured....(uhhhh), I mean, helpful hands. :laugh:


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## MattRabbit (Mar 16, 2000)

We need updates, man!!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Sorry 

The sunroof panel arrived today, a beautiful piece. Even the seal is perfect, so one less thing to source or make :thumbup:.

I have to 400 sand it and do some minor tweaking on the hood lip, at which point all the sheetmetal panels are ready for paint, maybe Wednesday or Friday.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

This is going to be ready just in time for the mid-west salt fest


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## MattRabbit (Mar 16, 2000)

echassin said:


> Sorry
> 
> The sunroof panel arrived today, a beautiful piece. Even the seal is perfect, so one less thing to source or make :thumbup:.
> 
> I have to 400 sand it and do some minor tweaking on the hood lip, at which point all the sheetmetal panels are ready for paint, maybe Wednesday or Friday.


Whew! I was going through withdrawals.

I can't wait to see the results! :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

d-bot said:


> This is going to be ready just in time for the mid-west salt fest


I hope so, and I'm anxious to see if my work is impervious to salt


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

rust NEVER sleeps!!


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## glidrew (Jul 25, 2002)

had a great time Eric. the rocco looks amazing :thumbup:
thanks


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## LubsDaDubs (Apr 6, 2004)

opcorn: Anticipation for the next update


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

glidrew said:


> had a great time Eric. the rocco looks amazing :thumbup:
> thanks


Thank you sir, glad you came.

Chris and Drew drove in from Kansas for Treffen, and we took the S1. For some reason this year, the Sciroccos were in their own class...

...and I was the only one...

...so I took 1st place :sly:

Anyhoo, y'all want updates, I got updates. First thing, I 400 sanded the sunroof outside:










and inside (real PIA):










Then I emptied the entire garage and sanitized it as best I could. The driveway looked like I was having a garage sale :










And the I got to it. First the hood:










I missed two dips . I think the skin got pulled down when VW glued it to the inner structure. I suppose the hood's no worse now than when it was new, but I was disappointed because the dips would have been easy to smooth with filler (the areas are stiff because they're glued to the inner frame). Oh well.

Fenders next:



















No beef with them, they came out great.

Next doors:



















Very happy, no waves 

And finally, the sunroof, gas door, and hood hinges:










No pic, but I painted the inside of the sunroof panel first today, so by the time I sprayed everything else, I could flip the sunroof over and paint the outside.

Next will be some assembly, but I have to work tomorrow. Maybe Friday if the paint feels good and hard.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> The driveway looked like I was having a garage sale :



How much for the Shop Vac?


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## nuctech (Nov 3, 2009)

Are you going to wait till later to paint the bodykit? Great work btw:thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm doing the kit separate because the paint'll have flex agent in it.

Probably after the panels are on, aligned, assembled, and the car sanded and buffed.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Single Stage paint?


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Sweet business, Eric. Looking forward to it all going back together. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

prom king said:


> Single Stage paint?


Yessir.

Today I'm pretty sore from lugging the panels around yesterday, which severely limited my enthusiasm, but I was anxious to at least get the gas door installed.

Why, you ask?

Astute observers will note that I'm painting the car piecemeal to make the process more manageable, but accepting some risk of mismatched panels. I took some steps to minimize the risk, but ultimately "the proof is in the pudding".

So the gas door is huge because I painted it yesterday, as opposed to the passenger quarter panel, which I did a few months ago. The result?

You wanna see?

Like, a picture?

[Drum roll]:










Perfect match. The gas door is smoother because I laid it flat and get the paint to flow like glass, but with some sanding and buffing, I'm pretty sure I'll get the quarter panel to toe the line.

It took a while getting the gaps adjusted and sealing the screws and screw holes to keep water out, so that left a few minutes before dark to "real quick" install the hood hinges:



















"Real quick", as in, the guy who designed the hinges should have his balls squeezed in a vice :facepalm: The hinge point is so high in the cowl that it's a omtherufcker to get the C-clips into position. Here's what I learned, and yes it is possible to do it without much force and without chipping anything. I opened the clips a bit so that they still snap soundly into position, but they do so with minimal force. I smothered the clips in grease so that I could push them up into the slot, and they held there by themselves until I could push them home with a short screwdriver, done blind. Add cursing, alternating with relaxation and tasty beverages as needed.

Lastly, just so you know, when you paint, cover the floor.

No, I mean the WHOLE floor. Here's mine:










 

Guess I gotta paint the floor when the car's done 

Tomorrow if the Advil works, I'll try to hang the panels


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, big day today, as in it's starting to look like a car 

First I bolted the doors on and tweaked the hinges until the rear gap was spot on:










Then I bolted the fenders on, tweaking them so the door/fender gap was spot on:



















I went ahead and tightened down the other bolts based on where the old bolt marks were, and painted the bolt heads red :










The fenders are glued with hard RTV where that was done before, and the bolts that go under the car are all soaked in Cosmoline, as are the headlight bracket screws, which are now permanently installed.

Lastly, the hood:










I like the look :thumbup:. The dips I saw yesterday cannot be discerned, so maybe I was being too picky in some unflattering light? In any event, since I always wanna gripe about something, now I'm disappointed with the texture along the front lip of the hood, which seems awfully dry. Hopefully I'll get it to shine without burning through...

And here's where I'm at:










Engine bay done except hood hardware:










Tomorrow I hope to get door hardware on, fender liners installed, and hood hardware done. See you then! :wave:


----------



## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Nice.

I'll throw this out there, since corrosion protection is a stated concern of yours.

The fenders have to be either installed:

1. in a manner that COMPLETELY prevents water from entering the fender-to-wheelwell and fender-to-inner fender areas, either directly or through capillary action. That means seam sealer, schutz, whatever...in copious quantities. Any water that gets trapped in there will stay there for a while and do some damage. This will be tricky.

or

2. installed without ANY sealing material, so water drips, runs or otherwise leaves the area shortly after entering.

Option 2 is practically impossible, as dirt, salt, etc. will clog the openings and (worse yet) act as a water-retaining, decaying, acidic, corrosive SPONGE OF DOOM.

Just a thought.

:wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I guess I'm doing option 2, more or less. I only put a bead where I cut the old stuff, so there's no more and no less than original. I think the liners go a long way protecting things.

I figure it didn't rust before, so it shouldn't now, we'll see...

The exception is the driver fender repair. I'll Cosmoline it but make sure it still drains.


----------



## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

Well, I have to concede that option 2 is better than a less-than-perfectly executed option 1. If the fender is "mostly" sealed and water gets in, it's gonna STAY THERE. That was a common issue with MK1 cars, due to the stupid hood rest grommets and the holes in the fender ledges that they fit into. 

Ugh.

It would be better to ventilate the sucker.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

Fenders are dumb anyway! Just run the liners!


----------



## ANSAracingb (Aug 16, 2005)

That sunroof looks good Eric!
I'm glad it made its way to you safely and I can't believe you painted it already :thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Your panel saved me a ishtboat of work. All it needed was to be sanded :thumbup:

I didn't get as much done as I thought I would because the pool and some tasty beverages both conspired to rob me of half the day :beer:, but I made some good progress nevertheless.

First: hood hardware, squirters, various body plugs, etc...:










After tinkering a while, the hood gaps are good:










Astute observers will note the yellow string, which is an emergency backup for the hood release setup, the complexity of which has me a bit suspicious, even though it does work well. Also, the hood gap in front of the cowl repair is imperfect, as expected, but overall it's very satisfactory IMO.

Next was door hardware. First the latches, handles, etc...:










I spent a lot of time getting the gaps right, and I'm happy with them. Astute observers will note that the slight recess under the front of the door handles is missing, but you'd have to know it to notice it, and flat was much simpler to do.

BTW, does anybody know if these slots get covered?










I can't imagine they're left open, but the car didn't have anything there 

Other door handle, latch, hardware, etc..., and good gaps:










With the doors level, I could measure and paint the B-pillar black-outs:










After that, vent windows:










And finally, windows, cranks, scrapers, seals, etc...:










And a random shot I like because of the lighting:










Tomorrow I may start on the sunroof, which frankly seems insurmountable . The nice layout I had is now a big [and possibly incomplete?] pile. It seems like my basement is Command Central for all the kids in the neighborhood, which in some ways is cool, and and other ways is a PIA.


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> BTW, does anybody know if these slots get covered?



Mine are not.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Car is looking good!

Those slots are as is, no covers or anything, it stays as is, some sort or air vent I guess.


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## Falcor (May 26, 2004)

tall redheads..... :heart:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Tall indeed, and I only have about 150 pounds of parts left, so this car will probably not be "stanced" 

I shoulda ordered the Sport Cup Kit instead of the Touring Cup Kit. It woulda been another 1.5" down.

At least it has a good rake.


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

echassin said:


> Tall indeed, and I only have about 150 pounds of parts left, so this car will probably not be "stanced"
> 
> I shoulda ordered the Sport Cup Kit instead of the Touring Cup Kit. It woulda been another 1.5" down.
> 
> At least it has a good rake.


 I imagine the touring kit was just an up graded suspension kit that retained the stock ride height, but since you will be winter driving it, I think it is better this way. At least the car sits nice and straight, without that typical "scirocco sag" in the rear.


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

When you're all done, throw some bags of sand in the trunk. That'll level 'er out govna'.

or something


----------



## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Michael Bee said:


> When you're all done, throw some bags of sand in the trunk. That'll level 'er out govna'.
> 
> or something


Since this is staged for "winter duty", when he adds the snow plow from the cub cadet up front, and the salt spreader in the rear, it will be "stanced" fairly well.


----------



## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

d-bot said:


> Since this is staged for "winter duty", when he adds the snow plow from the cub cadet up front, and the salt spreader in the rear, it will be "stanced" fairly well.


Just throw the transmission from the club cadet in the trunk. It will be SLAMMED!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The kit said it'd lower the car an inch or so, but it didn't. I don't think it's because I removed the 220 lbs, because the kit's "part" number is the same for all A1 chassis cars, which would include lightweight early Rabbits.

I don't mind the height except that the car has too much rake (the rear is higher). The rear springs have a LOT of dead coils, so the option does exist to cut out a few with no adverse effects. We'll see how the car sits after the kit and bumpers are on, and after I drive it a while.

Anyhoo, today I got the sunroof working. I had it all layed out perfect after I took it out, but over time, my layout became this:












An hour or so of staring at it got me here:










Rails being installed:










Cable drive track being installed:










Washing the cloth (Oxyclean and a light brushing):










Cloth glued on and the panel slid into its tracks:










From inside:










The spot is some glue I dripped  .

With the cloth thing in its track, the tracks can be tightened down:










Seal pressed onto the panel:










I used a little silicone to keep water from pooling at the bottom of the seal's channel, which I think is why the other panel rusted.

Panel installed, levelled, and height adjusted, :










Open:










Tilted:










What I'm not showing you are the intervening steps, from the time the panel is installed, till it'll open and tilt. Here's a brief summary of those steps:

1) Curse a lot, like this: @#$%&*!!!
2) Take it all apart, tweak anything that looks bent, reassemble.
3) Repeat steps one and two several times.
4) Jump up and down and consider buying a huge tube of black silicone to just glue the ufcking thing shut.
5) Repeat steps one and two several more times.
6) Stomp away and drink some tasty beverages to relax, while pondering how and why engineers would take a simple goal like "let the Sun in through a hole in the roof", and design the most complicated mechanism ever 
7) Repeat step two and WHOA! IT WORKS! WTF?  I don't even know what I did different !?

OK, enough levity, because I do have two residual issues I need help with:
1) When the roof tilts up, it doesn't lift the cloth panel.
2) I have this leftover spring:










I'm certain the two issues are related, but I can't figure out how the spring goes in so that it'll lift the panel. I seem to recall one end was on the cross bar, but it seems too far forward to lift the cloth panel, and there's no hook on the cloth panel anyways. Anyone?

Next'll be fender liners, and I think enough of the weight is on the car to do the wheel alignment.


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## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> OK, enough levity, because I do have two residual issues I need help with:
> 1) When the roof tilts up, it doesn't lift the cloth panel.
> 2) I have this leftover spring:
> 
> ...


Eric,

You may have already seen these but seem to cover what you need:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2137527-Sunroof-Rebuild&highlight=sunroof

http://www.vintagewatercooleds.com/tech/2008/sunroof-repair-technote/#more-549

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3137532-sunroof-question&highlight=sunroof

Slow night here at the hospital tonight. 
-Dan

Edit: one more http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...lt-Sunroof&p=14359521&viewfull=1#post14359521


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Got it, thanks!

The one link is the same as Timbo's Technote, but it didn't show where the spring goes, but the link that described the location was enough to figure it all out.

My error was to stretch the cloth and glue it so that the little hole was hidden .


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Did you get new cables and drive gear?

I had my SR out this spring for some body clean up and a new seal, reused the original cables and gear.

It is a much "tighter" open and close with the new seal. I get some slipping now when opening or closing.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

OK, hold it right there....


> Too much rake...


 No such thing, but one thing to keep in mind is this thing is still yet to have clocked (m)any miles of the road's bumps and bruises.

Give it a bit to shake down and settle at it's proper hight before cutting coils... 

Just say'n; I know I sound all authoritative and possessive and everything- it's the curse of the Voyeuristic Hanger-On, Interwebby Stylz and everything. 

Nonetheless, I pronounce 'Rake' a Good Thing.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

PoorHouse said:


> Did you get new cables and drive gear?
> 
> I had my SR out this spring for some body clean up and a new seal, reused the original cables and gear.
> 
> It is a much "tighter" open and close with the new seal. I get some slipping now when opening or closing.


I cleaned up, oiled, and re-used the old hardware. The seal is used but nice, so I used that too. Petra did say that the whole thing sounds too creaky. Sheesh, women .

I noticed that sometimes the seal hangs up on the rear lip of the opening, as if the panel isn't dropping down before it tries to move back. If I back off and try again, all's well . It likely needs some tweak that I dare not risk for fear of losing what I've achieved .

I also see in the pics on the Vintage site that my panel's side brackets are backwards, which thankfully doesn't seem to be hurting anything (?). I can't even say that I know what they're for.

As far as the car's posture, I'll definitely install every last part and drive around a bit before passing final judgement. Early indications are that the rear needs to come down 1/2 to 1" more. If so, two or three of the dead coils oughta do it.


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

Rake :thumbup:


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## RoccoRacer (Oct 22, 2001)

Looking though the pictures I was thinking to myself, "no way! He makes the sunroof install look easy!" Then I saw the real story...


echassin said:


> What I'm not showing you are the intervening steps, from the time the panel is installed, till it'll open and tilt. Here's a brief summary of those steps:
> 
> 1) Curse a lot, like this: @#$%&*!!!
> 2) Take it all apart, tweak anything that looks bent, reassemble.
> ...


 I've been there, except I haven't repeated step two enough times yet.


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

echassin said:


> I also see in the pics on the Vintage site that my panel's side brackets are backwards, which thankfully doesn't seem to be hurting anything (?). I can't even say that I know what they're for.


If you're talking about the plastic pieces, they just cover the mechanicals when it's popped up. I don't know whether they are there to keep something from getting stuck there or just so it looks nicer when up.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

echassin said:


> I cleaned up, oiled, and re-used the old hardware. The seal is used but nice, so I used that too. Petra did say that the whole thing sounds too creaky. Sheesh, women .
> 
> I noticed that sometimes the seal hangs up on the rear lip of the opening, as if the panel isn't dropping down before it tries to move back. If I back off and try again, all's well . It likely needs some tweak that I dare not risk for fear of losing what I've achieved .
> 
> I also see in the pics on the Vintage site that my panel's side brackets are backwards, which thankfully doesn't seem to be hurting anything (?). I can't even say that I know what they're for.



Quite a finicky operation.

I'll give it another go this winter with new cables and drive gear.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

PoorHouse said:


> Quite a finicky operation.


For sure. It made me feel stupid the same way replacing the top on a Cabby does: the factory completes the task over and over with no trouble at all, perfect every time, yet I spend all day struggling and end up with something "pretty good".

Anyhoo, today I finished the door cards:



















The interior is "done" pending completion of the car's growing Punch List, which for the interior means seat bushings, redo [again] the seat back release cable, fit the seat back adjustment mechanism, etc...

I also got the driver mirror on (I could use one without any corrosion behind the glass), and for the passenger side I made a cool delete plate, which should give me a few more mph top speed :bs:


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## SeanKrems2009 (Aug 9, 2012)

Mtl-Marc said:


> Mine are not.



These vents allow for water to not collect from a rolled down WET window. My old mx-6 had all sorts of rot behind the door cards because the window could never truly evaporate out.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Those slots sure look like they'd let in a bunch of water during a car wash  I understand the need for ventilation, and I also get that there are drains along the bottom of the door, but this just seems excessive to me...

Anyhoo, today, I figure I have enough of the weight on the car that I went ahead and aligned it.

I realize my technique may not be for everyone, but I've been doing it this way for years without any adverse effects.

First I remove the wheels and support the rotor on blocks of wood so that the axle nut is about 11inches off the floor and the jack can be removed:










I also cycle the shocks a bit to make sure the car is at ride height.

Then I set the camber so that it's parallel to the rear wheel "or a little less":










In this case, you can see that there is too much camber. I don't know or even care what "spec" is *dons flame suit*. The cars handle great this way and tires wear evenly.

Next I do the toe. I set the toe angle according to tape I laid on the floor years ago using one of our "aligned" cars (I think I used Petra's Mustang :sly.:










Again, this results in a great handling car with no bad habits, so apparently a Mustang has a toe angle that works great on an A1 VW  *dons a second flame suit for additional protection*.

Lastly, I did the fender liners. This took some time because whoever did the undercoating was evidently concerned that the PLASTIC liners would rust, so there was a good 1/8" of glop all over the PLASTIC :facepalm:. I removed all the undercoating from the PLASTIC, because I like the way clean liners look :. Did I mention that fender liners are PLASTIC, so YOU DON'T NEED TO UNDERCOAT THEM. Sorry for yelling .


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looking great!

Ya I took my audi to get undercoated and they started to spray the felt material rear wheel liners!! Wtf is wrong with these guys, oh and alot of the floor pan was left dry??


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

OK, nobody likes tedium, but if I have to do it, the least y'all could do is look at some pictures, so here goes:

Yesterday I spent hours picking residual urethane glue off the backside of all the kit pieces, to ensure they fit easily when the time comes:










Then I spent more hours figuring out, from one huge bag of fasteners, which one goes where to mount the kit:










Each fitting is sealed with Cosmoline so that if Heaven forbid the paint chipped as I was pushing it in, there will at least be some gooey protection.

Next, and a little more exciting, the rear bumper:










Oddly, even pushing it down left the upper edge awfully close to the body. I fear that wind buffeting might force occasional contact, so I put some foam bits where needed to keep the paint from chipping.

There are some plastic covers that go over the bumper bolts to keep water from getting into the trunk:










Lastly, and very gratifying because I'm starting to get a sense of how things will look, the front bumper:



















I think once the kit is on the front end is gonna be t-i-t-s . Still gotta figure out the grille, though.

Tomorrow I'll start 400 sanding the ten body kit pieces and eight plastic screw covers 

But for now, I'm mixing up a Thermos full of Pina Colada and we're heading to the pool :wave:


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## vwovw (Apr 2, 2004)

it is a nice day for a sip and dip....Nice work!


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## MacColl (May 28, 2012)

Once again blown away by the quality and speed of your work. I'm more of a Real Ale man myself and don't have a pool just muddy Ayrshire fields.

A word about your door cavities. I have been driving around without door cards for months and have noticed the large amount of water that passes into the door through the outer scraper. It is normal for these 80's cars hence your vents and drainage holes at the base

I would be making sure your Cosmoline stuff (I use a company called Bilt Hambers products over here) is coated in there and then apply a membrane that I have just done to prevent any water coming into the interior...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

*adds door membranes to punch list*


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

It's nice and toasty again today so we're gonna go hang out at the pool again, but in the cool of the morning, I was able to address the rake issue.

Before:










What I'm showing is that the upper wheel gap is about an inch more in the rear, giving the car an unpleasant stance.

Two dead coils adds up to .8 inch, three would 1.2 inch, so I only took two coils to be safe:










With that done, I figured I'd throw in the spare, its cover, the carpet, and the wheel well covers:



















And here's where we're at, car empty:










And with three people in it:










This is a daily that will see Chicago pothole/winter duty, so the height is fine with me. I'm happy that the car sits flat now. I do think it's odd that $750 got me only four spring and four shocks, no housings and I got a funky stance; but that's that, as long as it's fixed, all's well :thumbup:.

When it's cooler, I'll get back to cthe body kit. It's clean, but the bits are splattered with thick undercoating that I have to remove before actual wetsanding can begin :facepalm:

Edit: BTW, I meant to ask, and I know this is premature since the car isn't done, but is a duck transferable ? Does it have to stay on the car that got ducked, or is it the owner that gets ducked and the duck can go on any Scirocco in the same harem?

Pic or it didn't happen :


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

HOLY DUCK!!!

very impressive number 2..


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looking good, something deinately fishy with the suspension, may e it will settle a little once you drive it a bit. I know the car has been lightened but still, most suspension kits were always lower in the back than the fron. Weird...... But car looks good like this so it all works out I guess.


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

Lower it already...jeez. Headlights look good. Now hack 2 Mk1 grills lol...popularity contest this is not.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

veetarded said:


> Lower it already...jeez. Headlights look good. Now hack 2 Mk1 grills lol...popularity contest this is not.


I was wondering if you were gonna check in :wave:

I can't use Mk1 grilles because the position of the bulbs is wrong, otnerwise I would.


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## Fein1 (Mar 8, 2002)

slam it!!! :sly:


Looking good. It was good to see you guys as well.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

If I keep eating like I did the weekend of Treffen, all I'll need to slam the car LOW is to get in it 

Last night the weather was pleasant, so we got to the task of cleaning the kit, first with soap and water, which I left to the boys since they have yet to work off their school supplies:










With the dirt off, I got the road tar and undercoat splatters off with gasoline.

Today we awoke to a steady rain, and the sad news that Neil Armstrong, my childhood idol, had died .

With not much else planned to do, we set up on the garage floor and had at it with 400 grit:










Between the kit parts and this 3D puzzle car we worked on, we got it all done except for one arch, before it started to get to dark to see easily:










There are a lot of recesses that are tough to get into, but overall, I'd say the stuff is scuffed pretty well to take paint and hold it for a long time, as long as I stay away from curbs 

I'll do the last arch tomorrow after work, and hopefully get everything painted this week and installed by the weekend.

Maybe title/registration/plates and a formal test drive by Labor Day ?

And then start on the long Punch List...


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## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup: Great progress in last couple of updates


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

Looking fantastic as always! 

Re: wheel gap- might be moot at this juncture, but since you are running 195/50/15's, maybe switching to a 205/50/15 would get you a bit more sidewall, close up the wheel/fender gap a bit, and give you a bit more cushion for potholes.

Obviously not now since those tires are brandy-new but maybe in the future. 

I tend to be more of a fan of wider/fatter sidewalls than super-low profile stretched tires that seem to be all the rage these days.

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> I tend to be more of a fan of wider/fatter sidewalls than super-low profile stretched tires that seem to be all the rage these days.


Me too, I think it's an age thing .

I think the gaps are good now, but my GTI has 205/50's and the Cups are the same 15x7 et 28, so maybe I'll do a quick switcheroo someday to see how it looks on the S2.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I have the day off tomorrow, and it looks likt the weather will be moderate, so hopefully I'll get the kit pieces sprayed.

Arches 400 sanded:










Then I messed with the buffer for a bit in the cool of the evening. Even after 10 days the paint is noticeably softer than the shell, which I painted a few months ago.

But at least I can see [flat] reflections :


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

- Rake is good, yer adjusting by cutting when you haven't run the car anywhere yet. It's going to settle down a little bit. What is bad is Anti-Rake... just say'n...

- Brandon is the man, listen to him. 

- These 20-something pages are great; when you start at the top of one and hit the down arrow or the PgDn key and watch all the pretty red pictures collage on by in a kaleidoscope fashion.... Its da coolness...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

As with anything else on this car that has generated controversy: If I'm wrong, I'll eat humble pie and fix it, but I'm right. 

I've put many suspensions on many A1s, and I've never seen rake like this. Nor have I seen any of my suspensions "settle" to any noticeabe degree over time, whether desired or undesired.

Today I paint.


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

TBerk said:


> - Brandon is the man, listen to him.


Who's this Brandon? :laugh:

Br*e*nd*a*n


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> Who's this Brandon? :laugh:
> 
> Br*e*nd*a*n


I plead fatigue while posting and apologize, my dear lord Verminaard. 

As for He that builds the car, the choice is his- and I defer. 



> I've put many suspensions on many A1s, ...


Proper chassis designation, dude cant be all bad...


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## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

i had the same problem w/a cup kit. this is before cutting 1 coil.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Big day today: I got the kit painted. It had to be done separate from the sheet metal because of the flex agent.

I don't know how this stuff would buff out, so I took a bit of a risk on the last coat and layed it down WET, but the risk paid off and there are no runs :thumbup::



















I almost forgot to do the little doodads that cover the screws :










The little rectangle is a plug I made to close a hole in one of the rear arches (only one of them ).

I stubbed a toe while moving too fast, and obviously broke or dislocated it. Fortunately I had a guy on hand who could straighten it free of charge. Guess which one it is :










I'm gonna get cleaned up and mix up a batch of Pina Colada (I don't have any Vicodin here), and take the clan to the pool as soon as they get home from brainwashing, er, SCHOOL. Tomorrow after work I think I'll get the thing registered and insurred, and put the kit on Thursday or Friday.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

VWsEatRice said:


> i had the same problem w/a cup kit. this is before cutting 1 coil.



I realllly am not trying to jack the thread, but that looks good and proper to me. 
to me.

btw- lest we forget; Hardly Anybody takes their car apart and puts it back together. Let alone better than it was prior to disassembly and/or in such record speed. 

More than one of us could use that prescription of Motivation and a six-pack of whoop'ass as mentioned over on the Green MkI thread...


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## nickbukowy (Mar 4, 2011)

TBerk said:


> btw- lest we forget; Hardly Anybody takes their car apart and puts it back together. Let alone better than it was prior to disassembly and/or in such record speed.
> 
> More than one of us could use that prescription of Motivation and a six-pack of whoop'ass as mentioned over on the Green MkI thread...


I agree with you on that Tberk


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Ha, thanks. Ironically, between the heat and this toe, I'm not feeling very motivated. But I was anxious to see how the kit would fit/look, so I got some of it done.

Last night I subjected the driver front arch to my learning curve, having never mounted a body kit before, and having no experience with the 3M mounting tape ($50 for the roll :what, which is another one of those adhesive products that I put in the class of "cartoon glue" (sticks great to the work, but also sticks to everything else).

I like the result:










I ran the tape right up to the edge of the arch so that the tape shows, which will be confirmation to anyone who might give a isht that I didn't paint the whole car with the kit still on it. Plus it bonds great, will keep water and dirt out, and will keep the raised edge of the arch from wearing through the sheetmetal paint, something I noted in a few places while taking the car apart:










In the cool of the morning I got the passenger arch done. Even after staring at these ufcking parts for two days, I somehow missed a paint run along the top lip, and only noticed it while pressing the arch into position. I dare not remove the arch for fear of damaging the fender/paint, so that leaves an attempt at the razor-blade-scrape trick .










But then, installing the front lip and seeing how perfect it looks made me feel a lot better :



















Then the driver rear arch, the side skirt, and the door bottom:










Definitely starting to look like a 16V should look :thumbup:.

Finishing touch for the driver's side is the door sill:


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Looking good. :thumbup::beer:


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

Gorgeous work! This is turning out to be an exceptional project.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

It looked so good without the body kit I was questioning putting it back on.

No doubt it was the right choice, looks great. :thumbup:


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Looks awesome :thumbup:


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## RoccoRacer (Oct 22, 2001)

PoorHouse said:


> It looked so good without the body kit I was questioning putting it back on.
> 
> No doubt it was the right choice, looks great. :thumbup:


+1 :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you! Glad y'all like it. It needs a lot of details but even as is, it does make a nice "10 footer". In spite of the heat, I couldn't resist finishing the kit.

Passenger rear arch and rear valence:










Passenger side skirt, door bottom, and sill:



















Final result after a short jaunt to sate my desire to drive it (no plates yet ):










Tomorrow I'll go register it, at which point I'll have $6765 into the car, ballpark of what to expect if one of you takes a similar approach someday. That's without any engine work and I kept OEM seat material [for now].

As with any large project, in order to keep moving forward, I tabled many details in the form of a growing "Punch List", in approximate order of priority, and in no particular haste:

1)Title/insurance
2)Final wheel alignment
3)Grille fabrication
4)Weatherproof entire car: silicone the windshield corners, hatch glass corners, rain gutters, door scrapers/seals; Cosmoline anything vulnerable underneath; install door membranes; seal the rear arch kit pieces to the new wheel arches with windshield urethane.
5)Fix that one paint run on the kit, sand/buff/wax entire car (ugh!...)
6)Sunroof tweaks and repair wind deflector actuator (I have to push the deflector down manually while closing the roof)
7)New seat bushings, new seatback cable, fix seatback adjuster mechanism, re-sew ugly upper seam
8)Nicer mirrors

Other things will surely crop up, but at that point I'll consider the car "done" . Maybe not "done", but certainly a fun car which can we can all enjoy and which can evolve over time, i.e.: swaybars (it needs 'em), maybe a radio, nicer seats/doorcards, better dash, 2.0 with goodies, etc...


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## nuctech (Nov 3, 2009)

I have enjoyed every update to this thread. You sir, do good work:thumbup:Maybe next year I'll get mine done and figure out how to post pics!


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

It's a dark and stormy night, but quietly a Scirocco is found the next morning in his driveway, slightly disassembled and mostly intact but in need of TLC and reassembly.

It cried a bit in the early morning cold, but it was snug in it's blanket and straw basket and somehow it knew it was in a safe place...



(grammatically obtuse, purposefully)


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Did you just use 3m double sided tape on the bodykit?


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

prom king said:


> Did you just use 3m double sided tape on the bodykit?


Yeah, which tape is it? I'll need some eventually.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Pretty sure he used the 3m trim/ body molding tape, factory is glued on using urethane (same stuff for glueing windshields), but it is a bit of a mess to use, but will never let go, the tape has it's limits but if the surfaces are well prepped it will hold strong for a long time.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I didn't keep the packaging, but I got the tape at the same place I got the paint. It's easy to find, just look for the most expensive thing on the shelves :sly:. I think prep is indeed key, I used degreaser liberally. Here's what the tape looks like: 










I used the tape on all the visible edges, so I wouldn't risk a urethane mess on the new paint. It's hard to use because if it touches something it's stuck. If you don't like where it's stuck, tough luck. But it certainly gives confidence that it'll hold. 

For those edges that use screws, I sealed the ones on "top" with clear silicone to minimize water access, but I didn't seal any of the "bottom" edges, to allow water egress. The major deviation from OEM will be that the rear arches will not be screwed to the wheel well, but will instead be glued with windshield urethane, leaving the lower ends open for drainage. 

The urethane is applied with a household caulking gun and is easy to find because it is the SECOND most expensive thing on the shelves : 










Anyhoo, after getting the boys on the bus for school, I again found myself with a nice cool morning to work on the car. Before starting I did notice a hint that the Cabby isn't being used enough : 










The only thing I ended up achieving was to rig up a decent grille until I figure out a permanent solution. I used the stock grille, but I cut and remounted the feet so the thing sits 1/8" higher and 3/4" inset: 










The idea was to emphasize the hood lip, like a Dodge Challenger. I like it for now. 

I managed to get the thing registered and insured (the car, not the grille ), but I took The Lady out for lunch and got a little buzzed . That left just enough time for a quick snooze, and before I knew it, the little rascals were home already :what:. 

Real quick, we screwed on the Temp Plate and went on our Maiden Voyage (trip to the gas station ): 










I wasn't even sure what to put in it so I used middle grade gas (it's my first 16V, my low compression 8Vs do fine on low octane). 

Back home without a tow : 










First impressions: 

1) Engine: pulls noticeably harder than an 8V, even at low rpm. Still not a Supercar. No ISV means the idle is unreliable for the first 30 seconds. The cooling fan still runs more than average, but not too bad and it is really hot today. I'll monitor and if needed, get the larger "A/C" radiator. 
2) Brakes, perfect. Best I've had in any A1 and not in a subtle way. 
3) Comfort: suspension is compliant. The VIN plate, which I had to re-rivet onto the "new" dash, buzzes and is already annoying. 
4) Handling: straight and true, decent balance, feels slightly tail happy if I waggle the wheel back and forth hard. Steering is much softer than the S1, which doesn't have swaybars either. Not unpleasant, but I should have gone with the Sport Cup Kit. 
5) Body/Chassis: doors and windows open and close perfect, but the driver door handle seems hard to use for everyone but me . No sqeaks or rattles :thumbup: eace:. 

So that's that, now onto the punch list, Happy Long Weekend everybody :wave: :heart:.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

As I said 3m. 











Congrats, looks good, you need to run premium high octane in the 16v.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ziggirocco said:


> As I said 3m.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Good to know, premium it is, then. 

I know it's 3M tape, but wanted to show it because 3M makes different grades, one was called Emblem Tape IIRC, too light duty.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Ya they also make a few different widths, I ave a buddy who sells it.


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## GTIanz (Feb 1, 2012)

echassin said:


> Big day today: I got the kit painted. It had to be done separate from the sheet metal because of the flex agent.
> 
> I don't know how this stuff would buff out, so I took a bit of a risk on the last coat and layed it down WET, but the risk paid off and there are no runs :thumbup::
> 
> ...


 I did something similar. Damn toe bothers me still.... 6+ months later. Beware the shower


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## tesg (Mar 23, 2008)

I can't believe how freaking awesome the front end looks with the round headlights. 

Never would have thought of that with my old '84. 

Well done. I've been monitoring the whole project on the board. Lots of pics of stuff torn apart brought back memories of my car.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you sir! The more I look at the grille, the more I think it fits the simplistic theme of the car, i.e.: it may be a while before I make a real grille . 

The irony of this weekend is that it's been hot and dry all summer, and just when I get the car registered to drive it, it starts pouring rain. I can't really get it wet without weatherproofing it, so I started doing that today. 

First order of business was to glue the rear kit arches to the wheelwells, using the urethane. Great result :thumbup:. While I had the wheels off, I slathered Cosmoline all over every fastener, line, fitting, clamp, and the rear suspension and brake pieces (that's the shiny stuff you see dribbling everywhere): 



















The Cosmoline in the gallon can is thicker than that spraycan I had at first, and dries like the stuff we're used to seeing :thumbup:. I slathered the spring perches with red grease before installing the springs, knowing paint or Cosmoline won't hold up there. 

Here's the rear end of the car "ready for winter": 










Next, based on forum advice, I took the doors apart again to install membranes: 










I made a flap on the bottom opening to dupluicate the OEM flap, which I don't have. 

The door cards are like the grille, crude (in a good way ?): 










A whole car pic before doing the other door, cuz the front looks so GOOD: 










Next I sealed the corners of the windshield and hatch glass to duplicate OEM: 



















In order to minimize water access under the rain gutter trim and the wing, I ran beads of clear silicone (shoulda used black on the wing :facepalm: 



















(The wing already has a bunch of silicone on its mounting face). 

Lastly, I used [black ] silicone to fill in gaps wherever the door seals shrank over time: 



















Tomorrow I hope to Cosmoline everything under the car and in the front wheelwells, at which point I will declare the car Weather Worthy.


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

What did you se to glue the membrane onto the door?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Clear packing tape and rigid RTV, but I'd forgotten about the carpet tape I have, which would have been better.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Reason I ask is that most oem barriers are held on with some sort of "never dry" silicone type stuff, allowing you to remove it and reinstall it.

In my experience, no vapor barrier = water leaks thru de bottom of the door card ;(, good idea that you put them back on.


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## PtboScirocco (Jul 3, 2012)

OEM is usually Acoustic Sealant type material which never hardens. Same stuff used on housing vapour barrier. http://www.monosealants.ca/acoustical-sealant.aspx


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Cool, finally! I always wanted to find some sort of oem replacement for that stuff.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

There's not much left in the doors, so I hope not to be removing the membranes anytime soon ! 

Today I finished weatherproofing the car, which consisted of slathering Cosmoline on anything vulnerable, and also all over me and the floor . 

First the front wheelwells, all fasteners, suspension bits, lines, fittings, etc.... The spring perches are slathered in red grease like the rears: 



















And then everything on the underside: 



















The idea is that since everything is primed, painted, and slathered in Cosmoline, whoever the poor schmuck who restores the thing next time around [not me?] will hopefully be able to remove everything easily without resorting to heat, PB Blaster, etc... 

Cosmoline is interesting stuff. It obviously has a surfactant in it, because even crude coverage results after a few minutes in a smooth even coat :thumbup:.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

I am now wishing I had covered my 2010 TDI in Cosmoline.


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Not to worry Joe... The factory does it for you!

Well... sort of. They do the inside of the doors and lift gate. 

Nice work Eric!


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## rocco82 (Nov 28, 2003)

Awesome job Eric! Looks great! Congrats


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you, 

Drove it to the pool today, and to ice cream this evening, and nothing fell off .


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## SeanKrems2009 (Aug 9, 2012)

Hey man you should got to H2Oi this year!! I want to see this in person and I have a lot of questions!!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

H2Oi would be a long run for a short slide... 

What questions?


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## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

SeanKrems2009 said:


> Hey man you should got to H2Oi this year!! I want to see this in person and I have a lot of questions!!


 I'm guessing this will make the trip to CINCY next year so you could see it there. Would this be a fair assumption Eric? 
-Dan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Absolutely :thumbup: 

It should be fairly well worn in by then


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I spent the afternoon on the cooling system. First order of business was to shroud the radiator. I had to rig stuff up because of the new radiator setup. 

The shrouds are fiberboard rivetted to extruded aluminum, made off cardboard templates that I tweaked on for a while: 










Passenger side installed: 










Driver's side: 










And now, as they say: "a little help here please!"  

Here's where the water temperature gauge sits after 1/2 hour in normal stop-and-go traffic with the radiator fan DISCONNECTED, proving that the car does NOT run hot: 










In fact, here's a meat gauge in the filler hole when I got home (after waiting a few minutes so the thing wouldn't give me a steam facial when I took the cap off): 










If left to idle with the fan DISCONNECTED, the temperature WILL relentlessly creep up, proving the sender and gauge work properly. 

When CONNECTED, the radiator fan cycles properly, but it runs a LOT once the car warms up. In fact, it kicks on at this point: 










As you can see the threshold is about the same as the car's "normal" operating temparature as documented in the pic while driving, hence the constant cycling. 

Ergo, I think I might have the fan thermoswitch hooked up to come on at the lower of its two temperature circuits (still seems too low though...), but I can't get conclusive continuity readings while crammed under the hot, running car. 

So: does anyone know which two prongs to use to get the higher temperature setting? I'm looking at YOU Timbo ! I'm hoping for one of your cool graphics!


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

If in am to mistaken my non ac equipped Rocco 16v fan turns on roughly when the need,e is on or just a hair above the warning led.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

echassin said:


> So: does anyone know which two prongs to use to get the higher temperature setting? I'm looking at YOU Timbo ! I'm hoping for one of your cool graphics!


 
Curious about this as well. I thought you had to switch to the higher temp triggered switch.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ziggirocco said:


> If I'm not mistaken my non ac equipped Rocco 16v fan turns on roughly when the needle is on or just a hair above the warning led.


 That's what mine is doing, but since the car normally runs at that temp, the fan is always kicking on, even at speed. 

I guess I need a higher temperature switch? Where do I get that?


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> So: does anyone know which two prongs to use to get the higher temperature setting? I'm looking at YOU Timbo ! I'm hoping for one of your cool graphics!


 Here you go!  










Aaaaand for anyone else who finds this while searching, and needs to keep the A/C, or wants an AUX switch:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you sir! 

I was using the middle prong, so I just moved the wire to the outside prong. 

The fan comes on "a little later" and runs "a little less" but I still need a broader temparature spread between normal operating temperature and when the fan kicks on. 

That means either a bigger radiator or a higher temp switch. Since the car runs cool, I would prefer the ease of a higher temperature switch. 

Anyone?


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## cholland_ (Apr 12, 2006)

echassin said:


> The shrouds are fiberboard rivetted to extruded aluminum, made off cardboard templates that I tweaked on for a while:


 These are lovely. You should make a bunch more and sell them to us schmucks who have been too lazy to do anything about radiator shrouding for the decades we've owned our cars but have always secretly dreamed we had something nice to replace the old disintegrated cardboard crap.


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Yuuummmmyy! It looks like you have pork in your radiator!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm sure everyone will wonder why the next tenderloin we grille tastes funny :sly: 

I dug around and ordered a thermoswitch from German Auto Parts, the higher setting of which will turn the fan on at 102 C, with the other setting being a bit lower. That should give me good options to play with.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Damn, I like those fan shrouds. They look OEM, or how the OEM ones should have looked. I need to do mine. And a Scirocco that runs cool? Amazing. 

-Alex


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## 85roccoZ400 (Jan 27, 2002)

Digging those side shields for the radiator.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks. They don't seem to make any difference, but I suppose they couldn't hurt, since I'm using a small early style radiator made for a 1.5 to 1.7 8V . 

I haven't worked up any enthusiasm for sanding the whole car yet, but I did give it a quick buff, wax and detail to make it more presentable: 



















I'm also starting to tie up loose ends. I installed the higher threshold fan switch, which solved the constant-fan-running problem perfectly, using the lower of the two temp options (middle prong) on the new switch. Now the fan runs when the temp gauge reaches 1/8" above the LED warning, and it only runs when I sit for a long time idling, and never when the car is driving. 

Next, in order to keep the car legal in Illinois, I had to remove the tint from the roll-down windows, but I was pleasantly surprised that the car still looks good in spite of the absence. I also had to mount a front license plate bracket; I didn't want to drill anything, so I used the body kit tape and a few zipties through the vent holes.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Ah, you should move to south Florida. You won't need a front licence plate and you'll never have to worry about your car running too cool! :laugh:

You're gonna sand and buff it? What for? I'm sure you might see some texture imperfections if you get up close, but com on. The car looks great. My Maxima came with orange peel standard from the factory!

-Alex


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I figure if I keep SAYING I'll sand the car, I can avoid doing it and say that I just haven't got around to it yet .

All joking aside, the paint is "OEM plausible" as is, but I'll probably sand and buff sections over time. My main criticism of the paint is the dip on the hood and another on the driver door which I missed while blocking the guide coat. They don't qualify as dings per se, but the light definitely wobbles and I hate it when my eyes land on them .

I did drive the thing to work today without any glitches. Whatever's buzzing in the dash is annoying, and one of the dash crack repairs, while sturdy, looks ishtty and is right in my line of sight :facepalm:.


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## petebee (Jul 8, 2006)

echassin said:


> and one of the dash crack repairs, while sturdy, looks ishtty and is right in my line of sight :facepalm:.


Ahh Eric just look away...look away.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

echassin said:


> I did drive the thing to work today without any glitches. Whatever's buzzing in the dash is annoying, and one of the dash crack repairs, while sturdy, looks ishtty and is right in my line of sight :facepalm:.



The buzzing isn't factory?


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

re: Fan Shrouding, I want to throw some kudos and some 'speriance regarding them.

I fabbed up some shrouding from 'hardboard' (masonite) and used some black silicon and if I recall correctly (since it was a work in progress and rolling laboratory) I used some plumber's tape to strap them in. 

Point was the Radiator, now bound on the bottom by the rubber bushing dealies and on top by the 'semi-bent-coathager-looking thingie was also firmly attached on the two sides by some inflexible and firmly attached stiff ass'd boards.

On the way to a gtg at New Dimensions I sprung a catastrophic evacuation as the side expansion tank on the radiator ripped free from the metal portion and dumped 95% of my coolant mix on Hiway 101, all at once. 

Randy to the rescue w/ a very affordable replacement radiator and some jugs of H2o and I was back on the road.

(Ended up w/ a warped head for my trouble though....) But then my Heads been warped for as long as I can remember...

My take-away was to allow some movement in the radiator and not affix too tightly these shrouding pieces down by the Crossmember. One edge of attachment is enough.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

That's a good point to emphasize.

My radiator mounting is indeed flexible so the shrouds are held only to the radiator, not the core support. Also, there is a 1/4" gap between the edges of the shrouds and the core support as well as healthy recesses cut into the shrouds near anything like hood cables, pinch welds, etc...

The front edge of the shroud rests up against a natural bend in the core support so that air pressure cannot bend the shrouds outward. A piece of foam protects the paint at the point of contact.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

What buzzing are you talking about? The oil pressure warning buzzer or something rattling? If it's the buzzer, you probably have a problem with the "high" low pressure warning switch. The Bentley has a whole section on the dynamic oil pressure warming system.

-Alex


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The VIN plate that I had to transfer rattles, but in order to redo it, I have to drill out the rivets, and the windshield is in the way :facepalm:

I had the high pressure switch buzz too, but grounding the [new] switch made that go awayIf you know the correct fix after replacing the switch, LMK!


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## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

echassin said:


> The VIN plate that I had to transfer rattles, but in order to redo it, I have to drill out the rivets, and the windshield is in the way :facepalm:


Haven't you ever read Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? All you need is an aluminum shim cut from a beer can. 

Loving the way this turned out, btw. It's giving me motivation for my own near-stock Scirocco assembly to come.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

echassin said:


> The VIN plate that I had to transfer rattles, but in order to redo it, I have to drill out the rivets, and the windshield is in the way :facepalm:
> 
> I had the high pressure switch buzz too, but grounding the [new] switch made that go awayIf you know the correct fix after replacing the switch, LMK!



Beer Cans as stock material; *Reduce, Recycle, Reuse! *


Perhaps you can squirt something under the buzzing plate , via hypo>, that will quiet it down. Silicon Adhesive is a bit thick, but it could be trowel'd in there, even w/ a finger, w/ the excess on top removed before it sets up.

eace: for your efforts, documenting, and sharing.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The buzzing stops when I push on the VIN plate, but I think it might be the plastic defog duct loose on the underside. I guess either way I need to take the ufcking thing out at some point.

Right now it's too much fun as is to work on it, so we're gonna "buzz" on over to the park and fly rockets .


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> The buzzing stops when I push on the VIN plate, but I think it might be the plastic defog duct loose on the underside. I guess either way I need to take the ufcking thing out at some point.
> 
> Right now it's too much fun as is to work on it, so we're gonna "buzz" on over to the park and fly rockets .


If the buzzing is too loud, you're not hitting the best part of the RPM range of a 16V. :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> If the buzzing is too loud, you're not hitting the best part of the RPM range of a 16V. :laugh:


Funny you should say that, we just got back from a drive and the buzzing is only at 3000 rpm, so we kept it well above that to keep things "quiet":sly:.

At around 110, my better judgement (in the passenger seat) said something about a divorce, whereas my little devils in the back seat were thrilled and yelling "FASTER!".


No shimmies or shakes, nice and smooth . This was on a closed circuit, of course .

BTW, the gearing is exactly the same as the GTI: 4000 rpm at 75 mph. I thought it was geared lower . Way more power than the GTI, not much delay to 110 with a lot more available, it seems.


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## sciroccojim (Dec 21, 2004)

echassin said:


> BTW, the gearing is exactly the same as the GTI: 4000 rpm at 75 mph. I thought it was geared lower .


.81 5th, FTW!


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## veetarded (Jul 28, 2004)

Sweet! I picked up a trans from Paul that is fantastic (not sure of the exact ratios or final...don't remember lol). It goes like this: 1,2,3,4...........................5. Which puts me right at 90 running 4000rpm. LOVE IT!! (Quaife, too)


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We took the car to work today and stumbled across another [nice] Tornado Red 16V! eace::beer:

The guy was as surprised as we were, and was shooting pictures with his phone


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## [email protected] (Apr 2, 1999)

veetarded said:


> Sweet! I picked up a trans from Paul that is fantastic (not sure of the exact ratios or final...don't remember lol). It goes like this: 1,2,3,4...........................5. Which puts me right at 90 running 4000rpm. LOVE IT!! (Quaife, too)


That is an ECO-diesel transmission (AWY) with the following ratios and gearset:



AWY ('90 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.71 

Paul :thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

[email protected] said:


> That is an ECO-diesel transmission (AWY) with the following ratios and gearset:
> 
> AWY ('90 Diesel) 3.94 3.45 1.94 1.44 1.13 0.71
> 
> Paul :thumbup:





veetarded said:


> Sweet! I picked up a trans from Paul that is fantastic (not sure of the exact ratios or final...don't remember lol). It goes like this: 1,2,3,4...........................5. Which puts me right at 90 running 4000rpm. LOVE IT!! (Quaife, too)


With your 195/45-15s, it would be 3862 actually, but who is counting. :laugh:


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> That is an ECO-diesel transmission (AWY) with the following ratios and gearset:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry Paul, I've got to correct you, the ECO Diesel trans is an AVX. Which has a 4.25 R&P, then the gears are 3.45 1st, 1.94 2nd, 1.29 3rd, 0.91 4th, 0.75 5th.

If anyone out there has an AVX trans, let me know, I've been looking for one 

The AWY is a diesel trans, just not the rare ECO diesel.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Say wuh? 

I don't mind the low gearing, I just always thought the Mk1 GTI (4K or 2H box) was the only one to rev 4000 rpm at 75. This thing is identical.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

with the transmission I'm building for fsi-rocco, I'll be doing 108mph @ 4,000 RPM's and almost 190mph @ redline.


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## Motörhead2 (Dec 29, 2011)

You made a S2 look good... Not an easy task. 







































opcorn:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Motörhead said:


> You made a S2 look good... Not an easy task.
> opcorn:


 Now be nice. 

Oh wait, you ARE being nice :sly:


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## RageX2 (Jun 29, 2006)

*Buzzzzz*

I had an interesting buzz enter the cabin on my 90 MK2 GLI. It only happened near the range of 3K RPM's. After months of asking online and poking around the car I finally fixed the problem. Turns out that the brackets attached to the back side of the intake manifold and the cylinder head on the 16 motors, are not just brackets, they are bracers. They hold the intake manifold in place using the cylinder head as an anchor to keep the intake manifold from vibrating up and down. This movement causes the intake manifold to tap the top of the valve cover just enough to make a very disturbing and annoying buzzing sound at 3K RPM. As soon as I put those brackets on, the sound went away. 

Video of issue as narrated by me. 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK5iDVyyDIQ 

I tried looking for my old post on the tex and couldn't. It's been a while since I've posted. 

there's two of them. One looks like a parallelogram and the other looks like a triangle with a "leg" sticking out. Made of brass I think. 

Not sure if this is your problem but it's worth it to look. 

Absolutely beautiful car by the way. Very Clean. This is the color and look I would want in a Scirocco. I love the meticulous detail and treatment, yet at the same time its dead simple.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I used the brackets you're referring to, the buzz is near the VIN plate for sure. No biggy, I think I'll ignore it until I find a find [?] a perfect dash. 

I noticed a single drop on the driveway, it's a final drive seal 

Other than the complaints I've mentionned, the thing is a lot of fun, the boys [and Petra?] love it, and we get the occasional thumbs up when driving it


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## DUBSfightinRUST (Aug 13, 2011)

Looks fantastic! You've accomplished alot in a short amount of time! It was a pile not too long ago. 

Once again you have proven you are a "craftsman" and just not some shade tree hobbyist. 

I am impressed. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks. There's an ever evolving punch list of things to do and nicer parts to keep an eye out for, but overall it's been great. 

500 miles or so without a hitch except for the niggly things I've mentionned (and haven't fixed )


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> 500 miles or so without a hitch...


 Cool. :thumbup::beer:


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## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> I used the brackets you're referring to, the buzz is near the VIN plate for sure. No biggy, I think I'll ignore it until I find a *find [?] a perfect dash*.


 If you do, I'll take the gifted one back. 

Thanks, 
Dan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

MrPill said:


> If you do, I'll take the gifted one back.
> 
> Thanks,
> Dan


 Yes, and I hope you didn't want the hood back, I kinda ruined it cutting the edges off... 

It seems like uncracked S2 dashes are as tough to find as for S1s?


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## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

Eric,

I can't stress how much I enjoyed reading and going through this whole thread :beer:. I hope to see and talk to you at more future VW events. I'm the one with the marine blue golf from Treffen  Outstanding job :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you sir, and yes, dark blue Mk2 Golf, I remember it well, beatifully done :thumbup: 

I think I bring this one to Treffen next year.

Updated punch list:

Final drive seals
Dash buzz
Redo the one bad looking dash crack repair
Sand and buff (I'll leave this for last )


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today's funny story actually begins a few weeks ago. Now, every coupla days we get a thumbs up, and yesterday we even got the pinky and thumb sign (which I think is good?) from a teenie bopper that was walking in town with some friends.

But a week or so after I finished the car, Petra and I took it to work and something unusual happened: she caught sight of a car she thought might be "kinda like this one" (she's not much of an enthusiast ). Sure enough, it was a Tornado Red S2. After some spirited driving to catch up with it, smiles, hoots and hollers, and Smart phone pics were exchanged. Unfortunately, just after went our separate ways, I realized we forgot to get contact info, and I thought I'd lost it forever *cue sorrowful music*.

Fast forward to today: I'm pulling into the driveway, and lookie what pulls up:










Owner: Justin, username Juice87. The car is the one Azim (sp?), username Hexagone, restored a few years ago. The BBS wheels threw me off, but Justin confirmed it's the same car, and it looks great. I have to give kudos to the bodywork, which was done sans welder but is perfect is spite of daily use including winter duty. He says the car has 180,000+ miles, like mine and that it has been totally reliable, which I find reassuring in the absence of any prior 16V experience (and having seen horror stories in these forums).

We'll hopefully be able to "caravan" (is two a caravan?) to Cincy next summer :thumbup:


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

echassin said:


> (is two a caravan?)


Sure is. :thumbup:


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

echassin said:


> Today's funny story actually begins a few weeks ago. Now, every coupla days we get a thumbs up, and yesterday we even got the pinky and thumb sign (which I think is good?) from a teenie bopper that was walking in town with some friends.
> 
> But a week or so after I finished the car, Petra and I took it to work and something unusual happened: she caught sight of a car she thought might be "kinda like this one" (she's not much of an enthusiast ). Sure enough, it was a Tornado Red S2. After some spirited driving to catch up with it, smiles, hoots and hollers, and Smart phone pics were exchanged. Unfortunately, just after went our separate ways, I realized we forgot to get contact info, and I thought I'd lost it forever *cue sorrowful music*.
> 
> ...


yeah buddy I like the 16v w/o the body kit,I remember seeing hexagon name a while back,
I want to got to cincy bad.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, just got done doing the car's 1000 mile checkup. I drove the car exclusively for 6+ weeks rain-or-shine, so about 8000+ miles a year at this rate. 23 mpg in mixed traffic. Cold idle requires left foot braking for a minute or so, something to ponder if you're considering omitting the ISV circuit like I did. I did need to beep a car that was sitting at a green light, only to recall that I omitted the horn too .. The suspension is much more compliant than my other A1 cars, so it's comfortable and easily forgives the occasional big bump or pothole, but it ain't no racecar. Something to consider if you're deciding between the Touring or the Sport Cup Kit. Heating, vents, and defogger work well in spite of the minimalist setup with one servo remaining. Power and torque are great, an obvious upgrade from my 8V cars.

General checkup:










The wheels get fairly dirty with brake dust, but they remain presentable even as they turn dark gray, and they clean up with a hose and brush. The lower body gets filthy from wheel spray, even with the kit, which by the way is holding well so far even though I used mostly 3M tape instead of urethaning it all. The paint looks good as is, so no rush to sand or buff it any more than I have (although that's still on the punch list). As expected, the paint does chip easier than factory paint when bonking the door lip into things, but not too bad, easily touched up. Headlight surrounds are still on the list, but I still like the Road Warriors look:










Fluid status: 

Oil: still orange/clear, 1/2+ quart lost, occasional puffs after idling for a while, and enough that the tailpipe has a nice shine inside it . Valve guides are likely worn, but I'll just moniter this for now, given the relatively slow loss ('not saying it's optimal...)

Coolant: looks good, 1 cup lost, lower rad hose clamp was seeping and dripping a bit. I'll moniter this also, especially for any subtle signs of headgasket failure. 

Drivetrain:


























The engine doesn't drip a thing. The gearbox doesn't drip either, but you can see the rear mount and the lower transmission mounting bolt are oily with some gearlube that's being flung from the passenger final drive seal. No dripping yet, so I'll moniter that as well, but only because my neck is screwed up and the job of changing the seal looks insurmountable 










Up top, the brand new strut mounts are already torn  and for some reason one of the upper retaining tabs on the timing cover keeps popping off  Also, the battery slipped a little so I added some rubber the retaing clamp.

Underneath the car, the big news was that the hard return fuel line was wet, and had cracked where it goes from the bay out under the car. I cut out the bad section and spliced in some fuel hose:


















VW used rubber at the rear of that line, so I think it's safe, but obviously it's a hackjob repair that I'd like to revisit 

Speaking of the rear, all's well, snug as a bug covered in Cosmoline:


















So that's that, all in all a fun car to have :thumbup:


----------



## RoccoRacer (Oct 22, 2001)

It looks great. These last couple days I felt motivated to remove the body kit on my 16v to repaint it over the winter (the arches are horribly faded). Any advice for getting the adhesive off the body? And what's the trick to getting the plastic mounting tabs off?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

IMO if you're just painting the kit, I'd consider taping it off and doing it on the car.

Getting the urethane off the panels without damaging the underlying paint has been described, but I don't think it's realistic.

The tabs snap out easily once there's no screw in the hole


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Dude, yer car is Kleeeeeeeen.... 


Good work; I'm _currently _watching this thread on a modern widescreen LCD monitor (as opposed to my 15 & 17" stuff that fit on the desk and where 'good enough'...). 

Daaaaayum!

Fine picture taking and documenting.


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## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

Michael Bee said:


> Is it clean yet?


Why yes..... yes it iz.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Time to address the weekly list of new things to fix . That's what happens when you reuse a bunch of the old parts .

But first, I don't know if this is an eagle or a hawk, but it looked bada$$ and was perched on my chimney :










First item, the ignition got tricky to use because the key was all worn down. Without a spare, it was quicker to just change out the whole cylinder with a good used one I had in my "I may need that someday drawer" :thumbup:.

Then, I decided my neck felt good enough to tackle the leaking final drive seal.

Old seal out:










New seal in:










I pushed it in a bit further than the old one so that the seal will run on a fresh part of the drive flange.

Nifty tool made out of a muffler clamp ("is there anything they can't do?" ) that some Vortex Freaky Genius showed me, to hold the drive flange spring compressed while installing the retaining clip:










Oil cover and axle installed:


















Finally, I decided the gear oil looked a bit too much like tar and not enough like gear oil, so even though the box shifts great, I dumped the old stuff out:










A spare lugnut fits the drain plug nicely :thumbup:.

Tomorrow I'll go get some Carquest GL4 gear oil. The Princesses got Redline, but my mules get the cheap stuff .


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Bet on it being more Hawk than Eagle, but it's hard to tell from the picture... It's a Hunting Bird to be sure though, often a Good Omen.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Apparently it wasn't a good enough omen, because I filled the gearbox this morning, and while it does shift great, the new seal is already wet 

It's not dripping, but at some point I'll have to redo it and either polish the drive flange or replace that too.


----------



## dub01 (Oct 15, 2003)

echassin said:


> Tomorrow I'll go get some Carquest GL4 gear oil. The Princesses got Redline, but my mules get the cheap stuff .


Most people don't realize how cheap the OEM VW oil is nowadays. 

Part # G 060 726 A2 is 75w90 full synthetic, and MSRP is $12.50/liter. 

:thumbup:

For that price, I won't use anything else.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The Carquest oil no longer specifies GL4, so I ended up buying Valvoline synthetic, which specifies GL4, and which shifts well. It was $17 for the two quarts, so a little bit less than the VW stuff, for those who might care.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

echassin said:


> Nifty tool made out of a muffler clamp ("is there anything they can't do?" ) that some Vortex Freaky Genius showed me, to hold the drive flange spring compressed while installing the retaining clip:


That's just plan goddamn brilliant!


----------



## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

umpkin:
I am going to take the advise.


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

83mk2scirocco said:


> [/IMG]umpkin:
> I am going to take the advise.


Yeah, I know what I am using next time I have to do this.

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The first time I did a final drive seal, I had Petra crank on the flange with a crowbar. It worked, but I cashed in an uncertain number of Marriage Points in the process. 

This tool is the shiz for sure, but the clip is still a challenge. I found that grinding small slots into the ends of the clip makes the special pliers hold much better (no flinging across the garage).

And doing the seal with the K-bar in place, the axle hung up above the work site, a foot of ground clearance, and with gear oil pouring out makes the job extra fun.

But then again, some say that doing an aortic valve replacement is like changing a piston through the exhaust pipe...

...with the engine running...

...and if the engine stops, they take your house 

So the seal is cake.


----------



## NateX (Jun 27, 2007)

echassin said:


> But then again, some say that doing an aortic valve replacement is like changing a piston through the exhaust pipe...
> 
> ...with the engine running...
> 
> ...


:laugh:

Absolutely hilarious. Kinda puts it in perspective. :thumbup:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Hey Doc, the problem isn't w/ my Exhaust Pipe!... What're you doin?, Leave that alone! Hey!

:laugh:

You know, I was thinking this car now needs some beauty shots somewhere in front of a local landmark or a sunset or something.


----------



## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

*Hey wait.....*



echassin said:


> But then again, some say that doing an aortic valve replacement is like changing a piston through the exhaust pipe...
> 
> ...with the engine running...
> 
> ...


:sly:

What is an Ortho guy doing with his hands on a aortic valve? 

-Dan


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

MrPill said:


> :sly:
> 
> What is an Ortho guy doing with his hands on a aortic valve?
> 
> -Dan


Mmm, good point. We'll have to modify it to suit .

How about: "replacing a hip is just like changing a tie rod end, except that you have to do it through the grille opening, and you have to do it with the engine running. And to make it interesting, they remove the oil drain plug, divert all the oil onto you and your tools, and insist you finish the job before the engine stops.

And if the alignment is off when you're done, or the headlights don't work because you broke a wire, they get a lawyer" :what:


----------



## MrPill (Jul 3, 2006)

echassin said:


> Mmm, good point. We'll have to modify it to suit .
> 
> How about: "replacing a hip is just like changing a tie rod end, except that you have to do it through the grille opening, and you have to do it with the engine running. And to make it interesting, they remove the oil drain plug, divert all the oil onto you and your tools, and insist you finish the job before the engine stops.
> 
> And if the alignment is off when you're done, or the headlights don't work because you broke a wire, they get a lawyer" :what:


And your running way behind because Pharmacy was late in sending the pre-op meds! (lt's always thier fault) :laugh:

-Dan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> I was thinking this car now needs some beauty shots somewhere in front of a local landmark or a sunset or something.


I can't tell if you're dissing the artistic types who do that, but I plan on taking it to Cincy next summer, maybe we can pose a family shot with its surviving kin.

Anyhoo, astute readers will note the whiny tone to my last post, the implication of which is that nothing bad that happens at work is ever my fault :sly:. I just realized that post was poor timing because I solved the "riddle of the buzzing dash", and the problem was 100% my fault :










I forgot to put this bolt in under the instrument panel :facepalm:, and it was allowing the dash to buzz way over by the windshield corner.

The car has no insulation so it's by no means quiet, but without the buzz, it sounds like a "good" car, as opposed to a "piece of isht" .

We now return you to your regularly scheduled programing.


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

echassin said:


> I forgot to put this bolt in under the instrument panel :facepalm:, and it was allowing the dash to buzz way over by the windshield corner.


Just don't do anything like that with any of your patients!!


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Anyhoo, astute readers will note the whiny tone to my last post, the implication of which is that nothing bad that happens at work is ever my fault :sly:. I just realized that post was poor timing because I solved the "riddle of the buzzing dash", and the problem was 100% my fault :
> 
> I forgot to put this bolt in under the instrument panel :facepalm:, and it was allowing the dash to buzz way over by the windshield corner.


As my father would say whenever he was responsible for a potential error, 

_"I guess there's a first time for everything."_

:laugh:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

My Dad said similar things when I was growing up.


I have an update in which I'm begging y'all to check your "I-might-need-that-someday" drawer.

My instrument panel worked fine before I took it out yesterday, but now it has various flickering lights.

I don't think I was too rough with it, but the flexible circuit board had some previous solder repairs on it that are loose:



















I can run thin wire to bypass the bad areas, but I'd rather replace the whole instrument panel with a good used one, for which I'm willing to pay one mmmmmillion dollars *holds pinky to corner of mouth*.

Anyone?

Anybody?

Perty Pleeze?

Darn, it's like there's an echo in here.

*Notes tumbleweed crossing road*

*Footsteps tromping away*

*Reaches for soldering iron, but hesitates and backs off*

LMK K THX


----------



## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

i have one for 20.00 if you pull it off the car.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Shrttrackr said:


> i have one for 20.00 if you pull it off the car.


Yessir, and thank you sir :thumbup:

And thanks to those who stepped up already 

I did rig the old one to work, using bits of wire to bypass the bad spots.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Boy, it's always something:

The right rear wheel started to drag noticeably, and it turns out the brand new caliper's handbrake actuator autoadjusted to a too-tight setting and wouldn't release.

I had to take off the caliper and reset the piston 

On a better note, I just put in an order from Mk1autohaus for $75 worth of those hard to find plastic bits that are always missing or broken


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Update time, car's warm and cozy (very cozy :sly:









The S2 has been reliable, so the Cabby is getting a refurb, hence why it's so high in the pic. The S1 is safe back at the neighbor's house (away from my boys ).

Craig, who parts S1's and S2's to make racing cars out of what's left, always lets me take stuff :heart:. This time I came away with a little tidbit I need to actuate the sunroof's wind deflector properly. I don't dare install the bit because the sunroof works, I don't know how I did it, and I'm fairly sure it won't work if I ufck with it .

Bigger news is I got a perfect seat back for my driver's seat, except that it's a passenger seatback :sly:. My driver's seat is OK, but one of the seams I sewed is uneven, the seatback adjustment knob/mechanism is frozen, and the release cables I rigged didn't hold up.

So I stripped down the the driver's seatback and transferred everything from the "new" passenger seat:

Frame with proper cables installed:









Repair and installation of the wires:

















Foam glued on and overlying mesh installed:









Before installing the upholstery, the hole from the seatback release lever needs to be closed:









I taped it shut from the outside and tweaked until the edges met neatly, then soaked the repair with superglue, and reinforced the repair from the inside with Duct Tape, held more firmly by first applying 3M90 contact glue.

Then pull the cover over the frame and install the headrest bushings:









Then hog clips everywhere:

















And button up the bottom:

























Installed:









Tilt works now (adjustment knob does too)









Appearance of the "scar"









Anyhoo, happy belated New Year :wave:


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Happy New Year, Eric! 

Seems like a good repair. I doubt (m)any people will notice the repair. 

Also, just read the aortic valve and hip replacement commentary above to my wife Erin. We were both in stitches, again. If the baby wakes, I'm blaming you!

That is all. Back to my beer. :thumbup:


----------



## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

It's bonerriffic, you car almost makes me regret selling my s2, but then i always just say, well, i'm getting an s1, lol.


----------



## Fein1 (Mar 8, 2002)

Looking good as always.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

SciroccoPowered said:


> It's bonerriffic, lol.


Thanks, I guess :sly:

Hi Chris :wave:


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

echassin said:


>


And let that be a FYI for anyone in the future, see those little sharp thingies? Be very careful when reaching in-between the seat bottom and back to fish out a quarter or parking pass that you dropped, I caught one of those under a fingernail when I was still a "VW virgin" and learned that lesson REALLY quick. :thumbup:

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

That's happened to me too.

I bent the very tip of the points in first before bending the whole tab down, so the sharp tip is embedded in the cover.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

D'OH!!! 

I've heard that 16V's can nickle and dime an owner to death, and this car seems to be no exception, having just cost me another $150... 

...in the form of a speeding ticket , my first in about 30 years! 

It was for 53 in a 40, and I admit I was hoping for a warning, maybe the wing was the kiss of death?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Oh, pffft, the speeding ticket made me forget what I originally came on here to ask: 

The car fogs a bit more than it should on a cold day, and today I got a wee wiff of coolant, so I ordered a new core. That might also explain why I needed to add a pint of coolant that one time. 

Normally I'd take the interior apart to do things "right", but on this car I'm OK with the cutting method I'm reading about. 

I realize I could cut out a huge section, but does anyone *cough*Timbo*cough* have a picture with the minimum cut drawn on it?


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## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

here you go. becomes evident pretty quickly when you take the hose connector cover off. i left the cuts rough which left enough extra plastic to melt back together w/a heated putty knife 










http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t84/VWsEatRice/8-9-11001.jpg


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

You really only need to take the console out and loosen the dash bolts to get it out.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

VWsEatRice said:


> here you go. becomes evident pretty quickly when you take the hose connector cover off. i left the cuts rough which left enough extra plastic to melt back together w/a heated putty knife
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Thanks, this is what I did. 

The old core slips right out, but I did leave it hooked up to the coolant hoses for now. When the new core gets here, I'll clamp off the hoses and try to get the new core in without losing "any" coolant. 

I made a carbon fiber cover that's bigger than the hole and looks OEM plausible. 

Thanks again:thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I was curious enough about things that I took the core out today even though I don't have the new one yet. I clamped the hoses, pulled the core out a bit so it would sit over a pan, undid the hoses, plugged the hose and core orifices with corks from my wife's collection, and removed the clamps. 

Here's the site after the core-ectomy: 









I don't think the type of wine matters, although Petra recommends a Cabernet. I did choose those plastic corks they use nowadays instead of a real cork. Noteworthy also, I had to endure a bit of "see, I told you we might need those someday", because I sometimes tease her for keeping every cork she's ever pulled :heart:. 

The heater box had no puddle in it but it was definitely wet, and the core is moist where one of the endtanks is attached. IIRC it was not like that when I last looked at it, same as that water pump that failed while it was off the car :sly:. 

Here's the blood loss that resulted from the procedure: 









The engine is still full and I drained the core, but not in the footwell .


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Let's take a look at how much of the loom Eric removed from the heater box area. Stock vs. modified. So good! 



VWsEatRice said:


>





echassin said:


> Here's the site after the core-ectomy:


 Also, Eric, that gas pedal is FILTHY! How do you live that that? 

:laugh:


----------



## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

uh thats a before picture for me also. i got rid of some wiring too 




























finished product 
the wires you see at the ends of the dash went to the door lock actuators and leds for the alarm which were removed.


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## TheTimob (Sep 13, 2003)

I also did the procedure today - but a lot less surgically. In fact, it's ridiculously horrifying!


----------



## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

I want to see the carbon fiber cover :laugh: 

-Alex


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## SciroccoPowered (Jul 28, 2011)

Nice brown carpet timob, the wife's has that color interior in it.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

So, ??? while I like the 'safe at home w/ his siblings...' shot in the garage, I was hoping for something landscapy or monumental in the background. 

(I was serious the last time, not clowning the artsy-fartsy set, of which I aspire to from time to time, in emulation mode that is...).


Anyway, having set the bar so high with your skilz and everything, don't fret about what to park it in front of- It's a Scirocco, it'll make anything look better.


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

TheTimob said:


> I also did the procedure today - but a lot less surgically. In fact, it's ridiculously horrifying!


 Is that a nuetra nest?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> So, ??? I was hoping for something landscapy or monumental in the background.


 Maybe it's my Mediterranean genes talking, and I know I shouldn't complain because we all live where we live as a result of circumstances that usually have little to do with climate, but Winter here is something I simply endure, so I do not feel any inspiration to do anything outside, and that includes taking fancy pictures of my car. So you'll just have to wait  

Anyhoo, the new core arrived already thumbup, so I installed it. 

First I filled it up with coolant: 









(I did have to remove the foam in order for the core to slide into the heater box). 

Then I corked off the ports, partially installed the core, clamped the hoses, connected them over a pan to catch any losses, pushed the core all the way in, warmed up the car, checked for leaks, and topped off the coolant: 









There's a little panel missing in this pic that goes behind the hose connections, and I realized it was missing after I posted the pic, so I had to go back a redo everything  

Here is the blood loss resulting from reimplantation: 









And here is the carbon panel I made: 









It's held on with that durable 3M body tape I used on the 16V kit. 

Astute observers will note the lower vent servo delete. the flap is held still by a steel rod. The position of the flap is such that when the center dash vents are open, air flows there (path of least resistance), but when they are closed air is forced into the footwells. I chose to do this as part of my minimum-parts-to-get-the-job-done theme. 

I think I'll put the rest of the thing together tomorrow :wave:


----------



## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Nice! 

And you saved some weight!  

-Alex


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

When you drive a four-banger, every ounce counts  

I got everything back together today and took the car for a spin, good heat, no fog, no odor :thumbup: 

The only thing I changed was the HVAC panel, which I cleaned up so it reflects only those functions that remain: 









Toodaloo :wave:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Tomorrow's my birthday but when you're awesome like me, you start celebrating a day early, and you gift yourself what every Dad wants: a few hours of ufcking peace and quiet, preferably with the wife, but if she's not around, your girlfr--, er, CAR.

Craig gave me a nice monowiper setup and I figured I'd install it. As is typical for VW, the thing fits 90% .

Here it is:









The way it mounts to the raintray is different, as is the connector. After staring at it for an hour (with good tunes and tasty beverages), I decided to proceed as follows:

I took everything off the original setup and cut off the driver side arm:









As with any procedure, site confirmation is critical, but it is especially important if the prodedure is an amputation.

Then I took the linkage and the hub assembly from the Mk1 setup and bolted the hub to the Mk2 setup:








I had to lengthen the actuating arm about 1/2", hence the welds you see.

Here's the new setup vs a stock setup:









Installed and raintray buttoned up:

















Finally, I clocked the motor so the arm parks vertically, and made up a straight wiper arm:









I realize that might not be for everyone, but it makes sense to me, because I can now go 1mph faster, and more importantly, dirt won't settle on a horizontally parked blade only to get dragged across the glass. That pic also reminds me I still gotta make some headlight bezels.

I was stunned to find that my "miscellaneous" drawer didn't have one of those wiper hub caps to cover the mounting nut .

That is all. Adios :wave:


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Somewhere Ben Franklin & Leonardo Da Vinci are applauding vigorously.

,
Happy Birthday!


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

You just had Erin and I laughing again. Site confirmation critical with an amputation....:laugh:

Herzlichen glückwunsch zum geburtstag!


----------



## Chris16vRocco (Apr 30, 2006)

Nappy birthday, and nice mid-90s throwback with the wiper. Now all you need are DTM exhaust tips. :facepalm:


----------



## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Chris16vRocco said:


> Nappy birthday, and nice mid-90s throwback with the wiper. Now all you need are DTM exhaust tips. :facepalm:


Just ordered a set for him. 
No Mk3 super fast speed wiper motor upgrade in the mix? 

HBD!


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Now be nice 

I may yet again buckle to peer pressure and put the stock wiper arm parked in the stock location . I may make a longer motor arm to be sure the wiper sweeps the entire glass. We'll see.

As for the motor upgrade, the linkage and hub were stiff as heck with dry 30 year old grease. Cleaning that out and fresh lube made the thing run fast even with the stock motor :thumbup:.


----------



## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

*keep on truckin*

Mis post,lookin good


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The mirror was badly corroded and looked awful, but now lookit: 










I cut a piece of mirror tile I found at Home Depot, and rounded the corners with a Dremel. The new glass is just glued over the old one. 

Next, for a little levity, the trunk sticker was all scraped up, so I touched up the yellow, used a pen to redraw the border, and presto, just like new: 










Astute observers will note the meticulously restored lettering, although I'm not sure what the sticker originally said, so I took some poetic license... 

A grill is on its way, so I should have headlight bezels soon; updates as they occur :wave:


----------



## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Bla bla bla bla I love it LOL!

I really like the attention to detail that's gone into this restoration. Both the sticker and the mirror look top notch. I should do my rear view mirror a similar service. Did you use glass or acrylic mirror from Home Depot's Motorsport isle?

-Alex


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The new mirror is glass. I used a glass cutter to get it into a rectangle, and to cut of the corners. I used a Dremel to grind the corners round. I was surprised how easy it is to work with glass. 

The sticker is awesome if I say so myself. If you just glance at it, it looks normal. I'll bet nobody would ever have noticed without knowing in advance. 

Today I'm gonna start on the headlight bezels.


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> Astute observers will note the meticulously restored lettering, although I'm *not sure what the sticker originally said*, so I took some poetic license...


 "Lors d'un rééquipment des roues, n'utilisez que des pneus et des jantes agréés ainsi que les boulons de roue prescrits. 
Interrogez votre atelier VW/Audi." 

:wave::laugh:


----------



## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

Very nice,how ever I just away from mono wiper I will happy to have the h20 swept vs dumped in mg veiw. 
But its not driven in the rain...... 
She has cleaned up pretty good.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Mtl-Marc said:


> "Lors d'un rééquipment des roues, n'utilisez que des pneus et des jantes agréés ainsi que les boulons de roue prescrits.
> Interrogez votre atelier VW/Audi."
> 
> :wave::laugh:


 Oui, bien sur. Mais je ne savais pas comment ca se traduisait exactement. Je suppose que je pouvais trouver la version Englaise autrepars, mais le "blabla" m'amuse .


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

*captain save a scirocco*

















I dont any money,if you can use the panel I will give it you.The hood got pushed 
into it but its not rusted.It could be cut out or straightened. 
I am on a mission,I am diceting my 83.piece by piece.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

^^ Looks like your car had a latch failure like mine, but not as bad as mine was. 

Thanks for the offer, mine's good now :thumbup:


----------



## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

echassin said:


> ^^ Looks like your car had a latch failure like mine, but not as bad as mine was.
> 
> Thanks for the offer, mine's good now :thumbup:


 I plowed a Nissan titan.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks to Kyle (Redpig) for gifting me a grille to turn into headlight bezels :beer:

Now, having the grille completely surround the headlights is out of the question because I would end up with multiple little bits of grille that would be complex and fragile.

I looked at the Dodge Challenger and found that Dodge simply used flat plates to fill in the space between the bulbs. Armed with that as a precedent, here's what I did:

First, I cut the ends off of the spare grille:









I trimmed and mounted the grille ends to the turn signal lenses:









Then I filled in the gaping holes I left from combining the S1 buckets with the S2 brackets:









The resulting "kit" has the same number of parts as before, uses the OEM mounting holes, and services as easily as before (no bits of trim to mess with):









Everything installed:

















The setup is still unrefined, but is now consistent with the general crudeness of the rest of the car


----------



## Michael Bee (Nov 4, 2004)

:thumbup: that's awesome! Nice job Eric.


----------



## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

like :thumbup:


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

I have to say, I was skeptical when I read "having the grille completely surround the headlights is out of the question." However, you totally proved me wrong.

Having the grille ends mounted to the turn signal visually connects the outside to the inside and with the filler plates in the center, your eyes (and imagination) fill in the rest. Excellent execution!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks you sirs 

And the thundering silence by several of you on the issue of the vertically parked wiper is duely noted .

I may park the original blade horizontally, but in order to get enough sweep, I'll need to make up a longer motor arm.


----------



## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

/\ ya I wanted to play with this as well this spring, also maybe upgrade to a mk3 wiper motor.


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

Looks amazing!!!

And yeah, I like the vertical wiper myself too:












Brendan


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I like the look of the vertical wiper, but it may be too "boy racer" for someone my age...

Also, the theme for this car has been "OEM plausible". For example, my GTI is a factory "zero-options" car and has numerous delete plates and body plugs on it, like this car.

But a vertical monowiper is not "OEM plausible". Therefore, I went back to the curved wiper arm parked horizontally, like on an S1:










It sweeps far enough to the driver side to be functional, but I may revisit that with a longer motor arm. I think this fits the car better, and prevailing [silent] opinion seemed to concur .


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Lord_Verminaard said:


>


^^ Currently on the phone with me, if I recall correctly... 

:laugh:


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

scirocco*joe said:


> ^^ Currently on the phone with me, if I recall correctly...
> 
> :laugh:


Yep! 

Brendan


----------



## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

nice job on the grille man, looks sick.


----------



## UKScirocco_1983 (Nov 16, 2012)

echassin said:


> I like the look of the vertical wiper, but it may be too "boy racer" for someone my age...
> 
> Also, the theme for this car has been "OEM plausible". For example, my GTI is a factory "zero-options" car and has numerous delete plates and body plugs on it, like this car.
> 
> ...


Glad to see you stick to an "OEM" idea


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The wiper is better to the side for sure :thumbup:.

Nothing Earth-shattering to photograph, but I've been slowly going through the engine bay to cater to my KISS philosophy:










What we're looking at:

1)The ISV and its circuit are gone, with rubber plugs where necessary. The car doesn't idle well for a bit on cold start but I did drive for a few months with the ISV unhooked before deleting it, to be sure I wouldn't miss it.

2)The ignition wire sheathing is gone, and the wires are run behind the intake, each in its own plastic loom to avoid chaffing.

3)The brake reservoir cap has no plug on top of it.

4)All the vacuum lines run off of one feeder, with "T" fittings as needed all hidden in the rain tray.

This weekend I've dedicated to sanding and buffing the car. I've completed about 1 sq. ft. of the passenger door and while that part does look like glass, I'm already sick of the work.

This will have to be one of those "eat an elephant one bit at a time" type jobs, which is OK because the parts that aren't done shine pretty well already.


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## 81SciroccoS (Jun 30, 2000)

Eric - impressed man - your Rabbit is sick - but you are taking this to a whole new level with this Mk2 Rocco - the round headlights are unique, I'll give ya that....they do still look kinda weird to me though. 

Tobias did a round light conversion on his Mk2 with HIDs in BMW projector lenses - the flat surface of the headlight looked more "right". 

Have you considered getting some flat surface lights? I think it will look 10x better and more "natural". 










(note I think he modified a mk1 zender grill to get that flush surface....it really makes it look like it belongs there)

-E


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## redpig (Mar 29, 2004)

I personally like the recess look, I like how they look with the outer parts just behind turns, and behind the hood line.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

81SciroccoS said:


> -E


This look is the way to go for sure. I just wanted my headlights to look better than the rectangular setup, so the bar was set pretty low .


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## 83mk2scirocco (Nov 13, 2008)

echassin said:


> The wiper is better to the side for sure :thumbup:.
> 
> Nothing Earth-shattering to photograph, but I've been slowly going through the engine bay to cater to my KISS philosophy:
> 
> ...


Eye candy looks very nice.opcorn:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Sad day today when I picked up the paper and saw that someone got some sort of gratification from bombing the Boston Marathon. WTF?

I do have an annoying update on our Stepchild, though nothing tragic, obviously:

Exhibit A: that pesky plastic canister that catches any air bubbles sent by the transfer pump. Mine actually looked great so I just cleaned it up, and it worked great...

...until yesterday, when I found $50 worth of gas on my driveway. You'd be amazed how much surface area $50 worth of gas covers. And you'd also be impressed by the smell that $50 worth of gas produces when it's all out in the open. Oh, and did I mention that it was $50 worth?

It turns out when VW made that canister, they just glued the end on, and it popped off. Now, I debated gluing it back on, but then I thought, why not make a new canister out of STEEL!

So here it is:



It's no beauty, but it's STRONG! I tested it for leaks by blowing air into it while it was under water. I primed and painted it, and wrapped it in thin closed-cell foam, and sealed everything with silicone and Cosmoline. I think the thing is "permanent", and it works great :heart:

Then, and this is no joke, I found $50 worth of gear oil under the Cabby. Seriously. And you'd be amazed...well, you get the pitcture: another large stinky expensive mess :facepalm:. It turns out the input shaft seal I replaced (only out of caution) was leaking like a sieve . It was fine for a coupla months, but I guess I must've screwed it up installing it  The clutch disc was a little oily so I get to replace that again too :thumbup: (sarcastic thumbs up).

I didn't find any puddles under S1 and the GTI .

I'm gonna take a bath and try to forget this Day ever happened.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Nice. I made one out of aluminum when I had trouble with it. Did you re-use that little filter mesh thing? I slid it into my aluminum tank and tried not to melt it when I welded it shut.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I figured the screen would melt, so I omitted it. I figure the mesh on the transfer pump should protect the external pump, and the main filter should protect the CIS. Plus, the gas tank is brand new, so there's no rust in it.

I would like to make a nicer canister at some point that is more orthogonal, smoother, etc...

The car has a number of details I'd like to revisit, but I'm driving it all the time, so I don't work on it unless it really needs something.

So far the punch list includes (I'll make myself a reminder list here instead of a scrap of paper):

Longer monowiper drive arm
Nicer canister.
Redo the one unsightly dash repair.
Spiff up the door cards a bit.
More sanding and buffing.
Driver's side glass hangs up a bit in the rear channel.
Install spare sunroof crossbar; the old one has a broken tab so the wind deflector doesn't retract by itself.
Sunroof hangs up at rear lip when first opening it.
The fuel return hard line still has that rubber section I spliced in.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Oh hey for the windows binding, try armor-all on the channel guides or use a silicone spray lubricant. Unless your guide channels are physically damaged and not providing the right support, I wouldn't mess with them.

You may want to remove the whole lifter mechanism, clean out the old dry grease and re-grease, but lubing the window channels is what worked for me. (even after replacing them with new parts)

I'm sure other here have many more solutions.

-Alex


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Yeh, I greased the rear window channel without cleaning it, and things were fine again, but only temporarily. I think I need to start clean.


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## Islrcr1 (Jun 20, 2010)

WOW, that was quite journey! Loved the thread. Yuor car has given me the drive to keep my 88 16v tornado red rocco. something went south in my clutch halfway through the thread and I was going to sell it for parts, but now I am just about ready to drop the tranny and fix what needs to be fixed. thanks for the inspiration...Joel.


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## Gromel (May 12, 2012)

Would this same procedure work on a 84 GTI with AC?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

"GTI with A/C" is an oxymoron . 

JK, I don't see why it wouldn't work, but my GTI has no A/C so I can't confirm that the layout is the same. 

Maybe someone will chime in.


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## veedubtek (Feb 1, 2003)

echassin said:


> "GTI with A/C" is an oxymoron .
> 
> JK, I don't see why it wouldn't work, but my GTI has no A/C so I can't confirm that the layout is the same.
> 
> Maybe someone will chime in.


 
Yessir. It will work the same. :thumbup:


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Free bump. This car is really nice and clean. :thumbup::beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for posting that great pic 

I'll try to work up some enthusiasm and sand out some of the orange peel


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> Thanks for posting that great pic
> 
> I'll try to work up some enthusiasm and sand out some of the orange peel


This car looks perfect to me as is! :thumbup::beer:

Perfect stance. Equal space around the tires. Gotta love the R8s. :heart:


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## Gromel (May 12, 2012)

echassin said:


> "GTI with A/C" is an oxymoron .
> 
> JK, I don't see why it wouldn't work, but my GTI has no A/C so I can't confirm that the layout is the same.
> 
> Maybe someone will chime in.


Haha that is so true...esp in my case where all that's left of the ac is the heater box.

I was just curious if the core sits in the same position as the non ac cars...looks like it should work the same. 

Your 16v looks really good with the bay cleaned of all the unnecessary junk!


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Mtl-Marc said:


> Free bump. This car is really nice and clean. :thumbup::beer:


 :thumbup::thumbup:
Anymore pictures of the car? Finished product pictures?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

prom king said:


> :thumbup::thumbup:
> Anymore pictures of the car? Finished product pictures?


Whoring pictures for no reason other than to get attention is unbecoming behavior that lacks class.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAAAAAA HA! Just kidding!

Here we are after a year of reliable use, 4000 miles of mixed driving, 4 quarts of oil, some niggly repairs, and my first speeding ticket in 30 years:


Still haven't buffed the thing 


I do miss a radio, so I got a battery powered docking station for my IPod to keep me company.

Engine bay is holding up well:


Painted brake parts also holding up:



And the weeks spent on the bottom while the thing was on the tiptissery really paid off, i.e.: I like looking there :



All in all, a fun car that is a bit flashy, a bit loud, a bit crude, a bit smelly, and Petra hates it. In other words: perfect .


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Is he dissing me or is he dissing the car?


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

hmm... review:










and IIRC there was something said about sharp elbows to ribcages.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> hmm... review:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The impact of the olecranon to a thoracic cage can certainly be a useful tool when one wishes to engage one's limbic system. The nucleus accumbens, a part of that system is believed to create a strong reward system. The amygdala creates a harm avoidance system. Ergo, human behavior can be modified. 
Now, this is important: 
Two neurotransmitters that are released into one's nucleus accumbens. They are called dopamine and serotonin. Serotonin makes your body think it has been satisfied. Dopamine is the neurotransmitter that makes your body want that stimulant. When those lovely chemicals are released in your brain, particular behaviors are driven by what we'd think of as being a reward. One's body remembers how good the reward feels. Then, that behavior can be burned into one's brain.
Now before we compare build threads, I need to refresh my memory, who's who in these roles you've so kindly laid out before me.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

You know, if you two spent less time ufcking around on the interwebz, you could get some car work done :heart:


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## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

echassin said:


> You know, if you two spent less time ufcking around on the interwebz, you could get some car work done :heart:


I drove the hell out of mine today. Oh endorphins play a part on many responses. I'm glad that picture resurfaced. 

El t.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> buncha stuff ...mostly Engrish it looks like, chunkily seasoned with frequent Latin/ medonics/ and mebbe a bit of Greek tossed in, then shaken not stirred.


About all I was able to get out of it is that Petra is saying that Eric's *amygdala* is underdeveloped, or unresponsive to a clinically relevant degree, thus his ribcage is pretty much one big bruise. "It only hurts when I try to breath..."

At least I think that's what she was saying...

:screwy:

[clears throat for attempt at sounding all "Oooooh, step back y'all, I'm a medical professional..."] 

Nah, skip that... hmm.

[cough- cough] Ahem, is there a linguist in the house?

:laugh:

Paging *punchbug*...

(w/ a :beer: , of course)


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> You know, if you... spent less time ufcking around on the interwebz, you could get some car work done.


Did my quota today already. Door latch problems, OBD fault codes, other ah...sordid stuff on a Mk3 Jetta.

Eric, stick with Mk1's (and 2's if you must); later stuff is just... wrong, "designed" by stoned accountants rather than good (off-spring of Nazi's) German engineers.

Just... wrong.

:banghead: 'd (for hours)


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> step back y'all, I'm a medical professional...
> Nah, skip that...
> 
> (w/ a :beer: , of course)


Now, don't be modest, you've been very helpful with my edumacation in the past, the least I can do is return the favor. C'mere, I'll 'splain it to you. Closer, closer. If you just position yourself just two inches lateral to my shoulder and maybe about one step behind my arm I can give you a real understanding of the principles involved.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Neptuno said:


> I'm glad that picture resurfaced.


Are you kidding? It's a *GREAT* picture!

It's like the photographic equivalent of a BFH, useful for a wide variety of applications. And even if use doesn't always result in desired outcome... ya feel better anyway, right?

Guaranteed to Get Yer Ya-Ya's Out.

:laugh:


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## badpenny (Jan 13, 2007)

echassin said:


>


I really like the look of this car, this is an incredible thread.

Thanks for going with the rounds on the car. I need to budget my time a bit better and get started on some of the things I have planned.


Once again, great work.:thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you for the compliments. I do have an update on the car.

I never liked one of the dash repairs. When I stuffed the glass cloth beneath the cracked skin, the result was strong but bulged right in my line of sight. When I drove the car, I couldn't help glare at that spot. I took the dash out and depressed the bump while using a heat gun, and then applied glass cloth on top of the skin too, so the crack is sandwiched and should be very durable:

The repair is in the middle of the front of the pod. A little filler, paint, and texturizing makes it very hard to discern :thumbup:.

I also thought about the way these things warp and crack. I think it has somewhat to do with the fact that the front lip of the dash is firmly supported along the windshield edge, but the area right behind the defog ducts is supported by just a few narrow strips of material that bow and break as the main body of the dash warps and lifts up, which they all do.

A solution I tried was to cut away the small strips so that there is one large defog opening rather than four smaller ones. As soon as I did that, the main body of the dash popped up, relieving a lot of strain in an obvious way. The resulting shape is as you see in the pic, and is pleasing, IMO.

Next on the to-do list is I believe a new cold start valve. The starter groans for quite a while in this really cold weather before the engine finally barks. I don't know why the old one should be faulty. I mean, I _did_ paint it gold :


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

You mean painting it gold does not mean it is like new? Oh well there goes my wiper linkage repair


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> The repair is in the middle of the front of the pod. A little filler, paint, and texturizing makes it very hard to discern :thumbup:.


It does look impressively good. E is rather satisfied since he didn't want to make a new dash for the stepchild (the one he made for mine looked too _girly_).


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## A1peopleS2wagons (Dec 2, 2010)

ziggirocco said:


> You mean painting it gold does not mean it is like new? Oh well there goes my wiper linkage repair


My diesel instructor told us to find a "New" stamp and get a can of rattle paint.So you can paint your part and call it new.
Looking good,keep up the preservation doing a very nice job.


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## .T.o.n.y. (Apr 3, 2003)

Just went through every page, beautiful outcome.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

.T.o.n.y. said:


> Just went through every page, beautiful outcome.


Thank you sir .


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Nothing Earth shattering, but small updates:

A 90000 mile Tornado 16 V appeared in a local yard and Craig and I went yesterday to pick things off it. I got a great carpet for Petra's car, and also got a perfect wing to replace my slightly warped one:

I also got a bunch of little things like the distributor and those myriad plastic bits that cost a lot if you need them or are just NLA. Petra and I are planning to return to the yard and get the windshield and its seal to keep as spares, and I might even get the driver door since it's already Tornado red and might be easier to use on Petra's car instead of the gray one I just spent a ton of effort fixing :what:.

I also finally got around to ordering two metal water pump outlets for the two 16Vs (from GAP, thanks to Teighlor'O for the tip):

I painted them with wheel clearcoat so they'll stay nice. I think these are a good idea because catastrophic failures of the plastic version are not unheard of, and the sudden loss of coolant can warp the head, i.e. basically ruin a good engine. Cheap insurance :thumbup:.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Well here's a _weird_ update:

It's been down to -20F on and off over the past few weeks and the car has been sleeping outside, getting salty, etc... but has behaved perfectly...

...except that the other day it was entombed in 1/4" of ice sheet that I had trouble scraping off the glass so I could drive the thing.

I don't think I was too rough, but I guess I must have been, because:

WTF? Has anyone else ever experienced this in really cold weather ? The only reason it didn't make a big mess is the window tint film held the bits together.

Anyhoo, I "borrowed" one of Petra's until I can get another one, and while I was at it, I redid the vapor barrier with carpet tape, which was easy to work with and sticks very well:


Completed task:


Now we can resume extreme weather and salt testing :


And yes Daun, I am fully aware of how ironic it is that I threw away all the stuff on the gray door you brought...

...including good vent glass


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## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

echassin said:


> And yes Daun, I am fully aware of how ironic it is that I threw away all the stuff on the gray door you brought...
> 
> ...including good vent glass


Baahahahahahaha!!!!!

If you talk really really nicely, I might be able to find another piece of glass. It might cost you though.


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## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

hmmm... i've never had that happen before.... Maybe it's because my cars don't have windows.... 

that 16V is still in the yard. i might head over there on Sunday to see whats left.. and get my 13.99 back for the cam gear (what a rip off...)


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Shrttrackr said:


> hmmm... i've never had that happen before.... Maybe it's because my cars don't have windows....
> 
> that 16V is still in the yard. i might head over there on Sunday to see whats left.. and get my 13.99 back for the cam gear (what a rip off...)


Let me know if you go, I'll come with and recover some core charges.



vwdaun said:


> Baahahahahahaha!!!!!
> 
> If you talk really really nicely, I might be able to find another piece of glass. It might cost you though.


Thanks Daun, I went to the yard today and got the vent window off the 16V there, along with a nicer seal:

I also got a completely dry power steering rack (the car has 90,000 miles), and let me say how much I enjoyed harvesting the thing with the drivetrain still in the car, lying in the snow, with Ogd knows what the wind chill was :what:. Petra's rack leaked badly (the *steering *rack, you perverts) and I needed a good one to put on whatever car donates an automatic transmission and the correct rack to go with it, for her project.

I also got the steering shaft boot to replace her torn one, and little stuff like door sill clips, a good A-horn brake line grommet, and another defog switch (I'm gonna use them for the heated seats on Petra's car), correct speaker grilles, etc... The rectangle of material on the left is a scrap of the trunk covers to fill in where we deleted the rear washer bottle filler hole.


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## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

echassin said:


> Thanks Daun, I went to the yard today and got the vent window off the 16V there, along with a nicer seal:


Excellent. I didn't feel like rummaging around in the barn (if I could even get to it right now) anyway.


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## aarron (Aug 11, 2013)

I finally made time to read this entire thread, and what a great read it is, really motivating! Your front end looks like what VW SHOULD have done. I always wondered how that would look on an S2, and you proved the theory right. Very cool car. :thumbup:


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## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

aarron said:


> I finally made time to read this entire thread, and what a great read it is, really motivating! Your front end looks like what VW SHOULD have done. I always wondered how that would look on an S2, and you proved the theory right. Very cool car. :thumbup:


For further reading pleasure, I suggest reading his wife's thread. Same level (if not more so actually) of detailed work, with a lot more "sideways-ness" to the thread. :laugh:

Oh and Aarron? IM sent.


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## aarron (Aug 11, 2013)

vwdaun said:


> For further reading pleasure, I suggest reading his wife's thread. Same level (if not more so actually) of detailed work, with a lot more "sideways-ness" to the thread. :laugh:
> 
> Oh and Aarron? IM sent.


IM received and answered, thanks! Do you have a link to her thread? I'd like to read it as well.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

aarron said:


> Do you have a link to her thread? I'd like to read it as well.


Glad you like the Stepchild .

Petra's car is a work in progress: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...I-Get-Here-quot-Chick-s-Scirocco-build-thread

Her build is in some ways more serious, and in other ways not


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The weather is still lousy so "real" work on Petra's car remains at a standstill...

...but the Stepchild always has a million little things that, while adequate, could be better. I put OEM grills over the rear speaker holes to replace the delete plates I'd made, and I also got the center consoles out of the junkyard car.

The upper console that came with the Stepchild had been busted out, so really the only thing I could do was make a wood cubby hole:

It looked OK, but one could easily tell it wasn't OEM. Also the lower section had two holes for switches, and the one from the junk car did not, so I changed that out too.

The new console uses the stock ashtray, the stock oil temp gauge bezel with a delete plate made out of a textured CD case, and a smaller cubby hole made from old DVR cases, the texture of which is perfect:

The corners of the cubby hole are doubled because the DVR cases were just-right-sized to be able to keep a section of the "hinge" as a surface onto which orthogonal sections are glued. Very sturdy :thumbup:. Obviously the "deleted everything" look isn't for everyone, but followers of the build will acknowledge that this is in keeping with the rest of the car .

Installed:


Adios :wave:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Great post, great thread. 

Oh, and uh, your shift knob is crooked. :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> your shift knob is crooked. :laugh:


Hmmm, should the shift knob be orthogonal, or should it angle pleasingly toward the driver :sly:? That is the question...

I tweaked the HVAC some more, redid the raised portion of the bezel and cut out the little windows for the vent "icons" (or whatever those are called):


On another note, I'd like to redo the headlight brackets to be like Petra's. I did mine "hack and tack" style with bits and scraps of steel as part of experimenting with the look. Petra's are done with no excess cuts and no added steel, so that the S1 and the S2 brackets meet seemlessly.

Does anyone have a set of S1 brackets and a set of S2 brackets available for purchase?

Moochoze Grahtseeahz


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I've been back to the junkyard a number of times to get more stuff off the 16V that donated the wing, looking for anything that's nicer than what's on the Stepchild: door glass without scratches, instrument circuit foil without repairs, headlight brackets to redo the rounds more elegantly (I still need S1 brackets if anyone has any to sell), fuel pump and accumulator brackets for my Cabby, and best of all...

...*THE ENGINE*:




The donor had only 90,000 miles. The bores of the engine look great, the thing looks devoid of leaks, and the residual oil in the pan is free of any metallic sheen. The head had already been raped so I didn't take it, which is OK because I have a spare already. After a year and a half of use, the Stepchild's current engine doesn't drip or burn oil, but I don't know whether it's been rebuilt or if it's the original with 180,000+ miles. I figure it's a good idea to have a spare block to go with the head, and be able to readily assemble an engine with years of potential service. For $97 I think the donor block is an unbeatable value and I avoid the uncertainties of machine shop work.

The part y'all don't see is the harvesting process. Any of you who have obtained an engine from a whole car in a junkyard know it's no fun. It took Craig and me 5 hours and an uncertain number of Marriage Points on Saturday in the bitter cold to strip stuff off the drivetrain, remove axles, etc... (thanks Craig!:heart, and another 5 hours Monday to drop the engine and gearbox, pull it out, separate the gearbox, and get the clutch off, fighting frozen engine mount bolts, and getting it all, my tools, and me, covered in 6 inches of snow (no joke). I wanted to get the thing before this week's warmup, and I'm glad I did because there's been a thaw and I'm sure the junkyard is all mud now. By working on frozen ground, the engine was packed with clean snow and all I had to do was get it home, blow it out and slather the internals with oil.

The water pump and the power steering pump bolts were frozen in the aluminum castings, but I muscled the bolts till they broke and was able to remove the stumps, so the block is now bare and ready for detailing.

Consider these pics the "befores", and I'll post some pretty ones when it's done.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, engine's done:




Being still fundamentally more comfortable with JH 8V engines and their ilk, I still view the 16Vs with some suspicion, so it feels good to have a complete spare ready to go.

I got some other stuff I'll put on the car during various down times. Perfect door glass X2 to replace my scratched pieces:


Good instrument cluster foil to replace my repaired circuit:


Good steering column to replace the one I buggered up hammering on it (mine is fine but it's obvious it got compressed and pulled back):


And little bits for my Cabby which is a Frankenstein car and is slowly looking OEM:


Toodaloo :wave:


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Clean spare engine in a bag, nice!

Did you happen to check the crank end-play? I'm sure it's fine but if not you may want to change out the bearings, or worst yet, the crank. I ground up the thrust surface of my crank pretty bad by not having the clutch cable properly adjusted (I think).

And I'm sure you're not going to bother with new crank seals since it's just sitting there as a spare, you could just throw those on right before it goes into service.

Good luck with the headlight bracket search.

-Alex


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Vigourous winter testing continues:

I like the way the wet snow looks, kinda stuck to everything funny. It'll be interesting to see how everything held up (or didn't...) after what has been a tough winter on cars.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Spring has [sort of] arrived and the car held up pretty well on examination after spending the winter outside.

I wasn't up for doing bodywork on Petra's car, but I spent the day putting parts onto the Stepchild that we harvested over the winter from the local junkyard 16V and the donor car we stripped to get Petra's automatic transmission and associated bits.

First thing, the Stepchild has crank windows but had door cards for electric windows, which left unsightly holes where the switches used to be. Using the best bits from the multiple cars involved, the beast now has nice[r] door cards that fit well:



The upper chrome strips were cracked, but I replaced them with the spare lower strips from the discarded door cards. Also, the photos don't show it, but the car had aftermarket vent glass in the doors (not OEM), and the windows themselves were badly scratched from years of absent window scrapers, so I corrected all of that also.

Finally, some decent hatch trim, these were missing completely:


We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Splendid update. :thumbup:



echassin said:


> Spring has [sort of] arrived and the car held up pretty well on examination after spending the winter outside.


Undercarriage pics or it didn't happen.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> Undercarriage pics or it didn't happen.


I feel like I just got slapped in the face with a silk glove :








Now, I never said it was _clean_, I just said it held up well 

And the pics clearly show that if you apply enough salt to a *stainless* exhaust, it will rust :what:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Wow, 29 pages of Win! (I am waaaay behind on Scirocco-goodness....)


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

echassin said:


> And the pics clearly show that if you apply enough salt to a *stainless* exhaust, it will rust :what:


Is it a tectonics exhaust? It is because they don't use 304SS, instead a "lower" grade. Their exhausts are still the best choice on what is out there besides custom.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

d-bot said:


> Is it a tectonics exhaust? It is because they don't use 304SS, instead a "lower" grade. Their exhausts are still the best choice on what is out there besides custom.


It is a TT, and it definitely is not made of the same grade metal as the system on my Cabby (Dynomax, IIRC), which has been salted every winter for 16 years and is "perfect".


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Do you by chance know what you did for the upper radiator hose? I too used a 8V unit but I currently just cut a random hose I had to fit. Did you do the same or is there something out there that fits? The car looks great after our winter btw, this was a great one to test how it would hold up.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The upper hose is the upper hose from an 81 Scirocco/Rabbit *non-A/C* with some trimming to optimize the fit.

IIRC I got it from AutohausAZ.com


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Brief update :wave::

The car's been done for a little over two years and has been driven as my "daily" (admittedly I don't drive more than a few thousand miles a year). It has mostly slept outside through the extremes of Chicago weather.

It also went through a phase of relative neglect during this past year as we concentrated on Petra's car. No major repairs to do, but having built a nicer car for Petra, some intra-family competitiveness has reared its ugly head (so-called "jealousy"). So, I spent some time improving the Stepchild. First, I went over the car with a buffer (and waxed it) so the paint can be juxtaposed to Petra's without too much contrast . Then, some fixes:

1) The sunroof worked but didn't sit quite flat and the cranking was stiff (Petra's opens and closes like buttah). Petra's sunroof worked when we got the car so I was able to reverse engineer how VW did it and apply my new found knowledge to the Stepchild. The panel is adjusted so it fits flat, and it opens smooth now. It turns out one of the cables was "one tooth off" on the crank gear and the sunroof was moving "obliquely".

2) The trunk latch only opened with a key because I was missing a lever on the lock mechanism. Again, having Petra's car to copy made this a relatively easy fix :thumbup:.

3) The 1st attempt at a round headlight conversion was "hack and tack" because I didn't know where the bulbs would end up. The result was, ah, a bit rough. On Petra's car I got it all done without any extra cuts, so the conversion looks OEM plausible. I repeated the same process on the Stepchild using fresh brackets, and they came out very well (third time's a charm?).

4) The front license plate was double-stick taped to the airdam because I didn't have a bracket to mount it on the bumper, and this admittedly looked a little cheesy. Now the license plate is mounted properly to a plastic bracket that I carved to fit snug against the bumper skin (only downside, I drilled two holes in the Euro bumper skin, *dons flame suit*).


5) Lastly, and most importantly, I was (am?) suffering from a serious case of Wheel Envy after seeing Petra's car completed. She has informed me that no two girls should ever show up at a party in the same outfit, and that this rule extrapolates to our two cars, ergo, I cannot get the same wheels :what:. The best I could do to drown my sorrows was switch the wheels off of our Cabby, mess around with some spacers, and end up with something a bit blingier than the Ronal R8s:


The Cabby actually looks better IMO with the Ronals, more OEM plausible:


Anyhoo, that is all, carry on .


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> It turns out one of the cables was "one tooth off" on the crank gear and the sunroof was moving "obliquely".


Germans IMO invented the word "prazise" which I fubbed duck. Oughta be an umlaut over the "a". Post-war de-nazification notwithstanding, I'd bet that even nowadays, anyone using the phrase "sure, that's close enough" vill be taken out und schott!!



echassin said:


> 2 round headlight conversion was "hack and tack"... the conversion looks *OEM plausible.*


I'm actually beginning to like that term. I read it as "If VW had done what they should've, it woulda been about like this". Works for me. And you do manage (OK, maybe not on the first attempt) to make look right, what VW *shoulda* done but didn't.



echassin said:


> The front license plate was double-stick taped to the airdam ...this admittedly looked a little cheesy.


What's your gripe? You're French, oughta be all about cheese.



echassin said:


> Wheel Envy... She has informed me that no two girls should ever show up at a party in the same outfit, and that this rule extrapolates to our two cars, ergo, I cannot get the same wheels :what:.


:laugh: I'll leave it at that.



echassin said:


> The best I could do to drown my sorrows was switch the wheels off of our Cabby, mess around with some spacers, and end up with something a bit blingier than the Ronal R8s:
> 
> The Cabby actually looks better IMO with the Ronals, more OEM plausible:


Good swap, IMO both cars benefited. A Cabby oughta be a bit more elegant (refined?), and a Scirocco more aggressive.

Liking the look of both. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> Germans IMO invented the word "prazise" which I fubbed duck. Oughta be an umlaut over the "a". Post-war de-nazification notwithstanding, I'd bet that even nowadays, anyone using the phrase "sure, that's close enough" vill be taken out und schott!!


I've said this before somewhere, but it bears mentionning here:

1) The French way of letting the Sun into a car:


2) The German way of letting the Sun into a car:




Eistreiber said:


> I'm actually beginning to like that term. I read it as "If VW had done what they should've, it woulda been about like this". Works for me. And you do manage (OK, maybe not on the first attempt) to make look right, what VW *shoulda* done but didn't.:



I think the headlight conversion gets quietly mixed reviews, so any "yae" vote is always appreciated (and besides, we're right ).



Eistreiber said:


> What's your gripe? You're French, oughta be all about cheese.:



_The_ stinkiest cheese I have ever been subjected to is from...wait for it...

Germany (The Kraut I have to endure occasionally brings home, just to torment me, something she says is called Handkase. It smells like dirty, diabetic, pus feet.



Eistreiber said:


> :laugh: I'll leave it at that.



As will I.

Or not: We all know I _could_ just get the wheels, but then I would cash in an uncertain number of Marriage Points.



Eistreiber said:


> Good swap, IMO both cars benefited. A Cabby oughta be a bit more elegant (refined?), and a Scirocco more aggressive.
> 
> Liking the look of both. :thumbup:


Thank you, Sir. A Cabby will never be "elegant" IMO, but it doesn't look right with "Boy Racer" wheels. A Scirocco can wear those better.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> The French way of letting the Sun into a car:


Well OK, that might the French "way" but I'll betcha a kilo of Prosciutto ham against a kilo of Gruyere cheese that the design engineer for that soft roll-back top was an italian from Sardinia. I mean hell... just look at it. And nothing wrong with recycling a design, get paid twice for no more than a minor adaptation.

And even managed to do away with the T- shaped opener!



echassin said:


> I _could_ just get the wheels, but then I would cash in an uncertain number of Marriage Points.


Those MPs oughta have a passbook or such. Seems how ever many one thinks one has, never quite certain. In any case not running in deficit seems wise.



echassin said:


> A Cabby... doesn't look right with "Boy Racer" wheels. A Scirocco can wear those better.


Right. That's what I said, sorta? :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Back from the Dead with an update. The car's been fine in spite of sleeping outside and enduring several of our Wonderful Winters and Super Summers...

...but unfortunately the temperature extremes took their toll on the dash . It split right down the middle, and quite suddenly (it was perfect last time I used the car a few days ago).

I got the dash out and overall it still looks nice, but one can see that the instrument pod has what looks like a fold on it:


It's not a fold. The plastic failed in a big way:


The previous 'glass repair a few inches away held up fine:

This repair consists of a layer of 'glass under the plastic and another layer on top, so the crack is sandwiched and stronger than original. I did have the option of fixing the new crack the same way...

...and then waiting for the next crack to appear :thumbdown:.

Soooo...

The Stepchild is getting a scratch-built wood dash like Petra's car. The only difference is she likes hers padded (the _dash_ you perverts), and IMO the result is a bit too "feminine". I'll also cover mine with pleather but I'll use less/no padding.

In order to keep everything but the skin, the skin needs to be removed. First, remove the glovebox and pry out all the vents and bezels:


Next, turn the thing over and observe how VW made the thing. Feel free to curse their methods out loud as I did, like this: [email protected]#$%^&*!!!:

Structurally, and I'm using that term _very_ charitably, the dash consists of a small steel strip that reinforces the front from knees and feet hitting it, and anchors to the sides where the dash bolts to the car. The rest of the dash is paper mache (appropriately rephrased as: *the rest of the dash is ufcking paper mache!!!*). One piece for the defog ducts is stapled to another that supports the thin plastic skin. I personally think paper mache is an _excellent_ choice onto which one can bond a brittle thin plastic skin (as in, WTF?). The wood I'll use isn't very Space Age High Tech, but it's a lot better than what we got from VW.

To get the skin off, remove the staples and speed nuts, then use a long kitchen knife to reach/cut the glue that holds it to the defog duct:


This is what we're left with that is serviceable:

The basic procedure henceforth will be the same as on Petra's car: reinstall what left of the dash with every fastener and along with all of the ducts, instrument panel, center console, etc... so that the thing is straight and whatever gets built onto it fits perfectly. Once the new wooden dash skin and instrument pod are built, remove and separate them, cover them with pleather, assemble, reapply the skin to the substructure, install the completed dash, and finally, neglectfully leave the car outside in all weather without protection to see what happens .

Unfortunately that all has to wait cuz the car's outside getting covered with more snow .


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, this project clearly falls into the "the-only-way-to-eat-an-elephant-is-one-bite-at-a-time" category. We have other things to attend to today but I was able to steal an hour or so to mount what's left of the dash into the car.

First is to mate the central plastic duct to the defog ductwork:

The 'glass work at the junction is to address warpage of the defog duct, which is made of paper mache (have I mentionned that yet?), so that the plastic duct mates properly.

Next, install the "dash" using every fastener:


Adjust so the plastic central duct aligns with the heater box outlet, and install the rubber seal:


These preliminary steps hold the "dash" solidly into position during construction to ensure that the completed dash can be removed and installed normally.

Next is to install the instrument panel and the glovebox:



This step ensures that as the dash is built around these items, they will fit as they should.

The center console will go in just before the lower dash is built, also to achieve a good fit.

Next, I gotta go buy a bunch of thin CA glue, wood, pleather, foam, contact cement, brushes, etc...Petra's dash cost $170 to build IIRC. I guess this one'll be about the same, maybe a bit less if I find decent leftovers from hers.

Toodaloo :wave:


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

echassin said:


> Back from the Dead with an update. The car's been fine in spite of sleeping outside and enduring several of our Wonderful Winters and Super Summers...
> 
> ...but unfortunately the temperature extremes took their toll on the dash . It split right down the middle, and quite suddenly (it was perfect last time I used the car a few days ago).



Reading this and seeing the pictures made me cringe. I bought a perfect dash a couple years ago and I have been very hesitant to actually install it for this exact reason. Being a fellow Chicago area resident I would have to deal with these same extreme temperature swings, although mine doesn't see the light of day unless it's perfect outside. I wonder if the dash being frozen and heated up from actually driving it is what made it crack. Maybe mine would be fine installed in a freezing garage all winter and slowly heated up to spring/summer temps slowly over the months. Only one way to find out I guess  

Can't wait to see this dash rebuilt in a similar fashion to the other one, it was very well done :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

If you have a perfect dash, albeit old, I think it'd be fine for use the way you describe, although in the end the thing is still paper mache (have I mentionned that?), and therefore not structurally sound.

The only way to know for sure if your perfect dash would be OK sleeping outside in all kinds of Chicago weather would be to test it in _my_ car .

BTW, IDK if I asked once before, but how close are you to Burr Ridge, i.e.: why haven't you invited yourself over for bacon yet ?


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

echassin said:


> why haven't you invited yourself over for bacon yet ?


Did someone say bacon?? With invites like that, you might get people showing up from all over the country! :laugh:


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

echassin said:


> If you have a perfect dash, albeit old, I think it'd be fine for use the way you describe, although in the end the thing is still paper mache (have I mentionned that?), and therefore not structurally sound.
> 
> The only way to know for sure if your perfect dash would be OK sleeping outside in all kinds of Chicago weather would be to test it in _my_ car .
> 
> BTW, IDK if I asked once before, but how close are you to Burr Ridge, i.e.: why haven't you invited yourself over for bacon yet ?


Unfortunately I'll have to pass on the testing. While it would be nice to know it will hold up, it's even nicer knowing it's right next to me by my desk. I'm sure you understand.

I'm currently located in Lisle, but we are house shopping in the Lombard area currently. Meeting the few local Scirocco owners is definitely on my list of things to do, but the car has been rough or not running for such a long time. I wanted to wait until I could properly introduce it. This year should be there year though, I may finally get myself out to my first Cincy as well, I've only been a member of this forum for 14 years :facepalm:


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Black92EightValve said:


> Did someone say bacon?? With invites like that, you might get people showing up from all over the country! :laugh:


Their bacon is glorious. :wave:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Mtl-Marc said:


> Their bacon is glorious.


x2. And of course it is... consider the Coach/ critic involved. 

Casa de Chassin is a great place, and Clan Chassin a great mob; but Bacon is Bacon and overrides such mere temporal considerations.

Good bacon served in a double-wide on a paper plate by a slob is better than bad bacon served on a silver platter in a mansion by a butler.

The Chassins know their bacon. What more need be said?


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

Eistreiber said:


> What more need be said?


Wow.....all this bacon talk...now I´m hungry....



....Thank you! :banghead::laugh:


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## Shrttrackr (Oct 13, 2004)

8716vrocco said:


> I'm currently located in Lisle, but we are house shopping in the Lombard area currently. Meeting the few local Scirocco owners is definitely on my list of things to do, but the car has been rough or not running for such a long time. I wanted to wait until I could properly introduce it. This year should be there year though, I may finally get myself out to my first Cincy as well, I've only been a member of this forum for 14 years :facepalm:


I am in the South Chicago area -- Mokena. Eric and I don't meet up as much as we used to... but we do still do once in a while.


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## sicrocc (Sep 5, 2010)

Did someone say...bacon?.......mmmmm.:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Black92EightValve said:


> Did someone say bacon?? With invites like that, you might get people showing up from all over the country! :laugh:





Mtl-Marc said:


> Their bacon is glorious. :wave:





Eistreiber said:


> x2. And of course it is... consider the Coach/ critic involved.
> 
> Casa de Chassin is a great place, and Clan Chassin a great mob; but Bacon is Bacon and overrides such mere temporal considerations.
> 
> ...





All Eyez on me said:


> Wow.....all this bacon talk...now I´m hungry....
> 
> ....Thank you! :banghead::laugh:


OH LOOK!!! SQUIRREL!!!

Friendly PSA: A.D.D. meds work better if you actually _take_ them 



8716vrocco said:


> Unfortunately I'll have to pass on the testing. While it would be nice to know it will hold up, it's even nicer knowing it's right next to me by my desk. I'm sure you understand.
> 
> I'm currently located in Lisle, but we are house shopping in the Lombard area currently. Meeting the few local Scirocco owners is definitely on my list of things to do, but the car has been rough or not running for such a long time. I wanted to wait until I could properly introduce it. This year should be there year though, I may finally get myself out to my first Cincy as well, I've only been a member of this forum for 14 years :facepalm:





Shrttrackr said:


> I am in the South Chicago area -- Mokena. Eric and I don't meet up as much as we used to... but we do still do once in a while.


Whether or not a car is ready, and increased distance, are minor obstacles where bacon is concerned...oh *scheiss*, now _I'm_ doing it! 

Anyhoooo...

Construction of the new dash has officially begun, albeit one bit at a time. The idea is to work with what is known and progress towards what is yet unknown, until we get something nice. Toward that end, I made the...ends :sly::


I essentially traced the ends of the old dash, but tweaked the shape in order to produce something that is sophisticated enough to look like it wasn't made in a garage, yet simple anough to make in a garage, and fits nicely against the door cards' dash outlines:

The "face" of the dash will consist of four strips: the front lip, the top (defog area), the flat main section, and the lower lip.

The end pieces need to be a bit bowed, so a small spacer holds that during construction and will be removed later:


I still gotta buy a big enough piece of wood to cut the main section in one piece, I think that'll be next.

Carry on :wave:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

What the h*ll?

I came here to see what clever repartees were being said about bacon, and E just talks about his dash. Ay-yay-yay, where are his priorities? Anyway, it is a cool project, and is neat to watch. If'n any of you'all wanna combine consumption (pork products, beer) with observation, yer welcome at any time.


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## vwdaun (Oct 7, 2001)

Eistreiber said:


> The Chassins know their bacon. What more need be said?


The last time the Chassins had a bacon party, it was an international feeding frenzy of epic proportions. I wholly support such a gathering, it was delicious last time...


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

Eric. Love ya man. But never had your bacon. Going to call you out on the luan board. That's no different in construction than the original dash was constructed. Then again, someone has to stoke this fire if all these hungry bacon fiends will get fed! I missed the original dash build so really looking forward to this! Cheers


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

You bring up a good point about materials choice. A compromise is needed: I wanted something easy to work with, easily available, cheap, easy to glue, and it needs to be thin to minimize fitting challenges (vents and such).

Ideally I would have used so-called Lite-Ply, which is a thin three-layer plywood we use for R/C planes and has all of the above characteristics _and_ can be bowed along the grain. But unfortunately it is not easily found in sizes above 4 feet, and it sure ain't $5 for a 4x8 sheet like the peg board is. I also considered Formica, but it isn't easy to glue.

Rest assured: the VW stuff can be buckled by hand and can be cut with scissors. The new stuff can't even be bent slightly without cutting relief slots into it, and one needs a jumper saw to cut it. The new stuff is indeed a particle board product and will _not_ impress as Space Age, but it is a _lot_ more durable than OEM.

The goal on the new dashes was to reverse what VW did. They made the plastic skin the stiffest material on the dash, which places it under stress as the other materials move/warp. On my dashes, the skin is the most flexible material used and the substrate is the stiffest material.

Ultimately we'll see, and if I'm wrong, I'll hide the evidence .


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

echassin said:


> R/C planes


That explains a lot about your builds! There's a hobby I hope to pass onto my boy.

I repaired my dash a few years ago and a few weeks of south Florida sun was all it took to resume cracking. My dash even has hills and valleys between the cracks! I don't think it's the swings in temperature, just the heat. Maybe the original skin used to be somewhat soft when new, but heat and time have left it hard and brittle. I can't wait to see how your second dash come out.

-Alex


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Scratch building one's own R/C plane designs out of wood is mostly a lost art because of composites, prefabbing, etc...but I was a kid in the wood-and-tissue-paper era, and stayed with the hobby over the decades as it evolved. I attribute a lot of what I know to that.

We have places to go and people to see today, but I got more done. This doesn't qualify as a DIY by any means, but I didn't really show much of how I did it on Petra's car. Most of it is done with paper templates, starting with what's known and progressing towards what needs to be determined. Each template is made with an initial half that is traced to make an identical other half, so the dash is symmetrical.

The main template for the main face of the dash:

Now, I do want to specify that these templates don't just come out perfect right away. There are numerous steps involved, and often several attempts, sometimes separated with loud cursing, like this: "@#$%^&*!!!".

But after it fits, a wood piece can be cut and fitted (edit: the face is still flat and will be bent later):

I trimmed the paper mache instrument pod to allow the hole in the main face to have rounded corners, which is stronger. To the point I made earlier about the paper mache VW used, I just needed household scissors to trim the pod, and an x-acto to slice it and collapse it a bit to make more room for the upper lip on the main face. Have I mentionned that VW used paper mache to make these dashes?

The front edge of the main face is now the "given", and is used to make the next template for the defog panel:

You can see that the paper is marked easily by running a finger along whatever's underneath. BTW the paper is all pink because The Little One is apparently already a slave to convention and uses all colors of his construction paper except pink, so there's an abundance of it here...

Rear edge of the defog panel template is cut:


The front edge of the defog panel is eyeballed to produce a pleasing curve, and the thing is test fitted:

Again, this step takes a while is best achieved with occasional stomping, throwing things, etc...

The wood defog panel is tack-glued with thick CA (Superglue) and kicker:

The gaps will be filled with sawdust and thin CA which will soak the joint and surrounding wood and turn it to concrete (much stronger than any other glue joint I've ever seen)

The dash won't be padded much or at all, so I took time to make the joint even:

(The glovebox will be shimmed to fit well when the time comes.)

The short term plan so far:
Windshield edge
Lower edge (kick panel)
Instrument pod
Remove skin and reinforce joints
Cut defog slots and vent holes
Backing panels for all holes (so that things countersink without padding)...
...and the rest


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

More progress while Petra and I prepare a feast to celebrate Son #1's first hunt (pheasants, with Uncle, they're still out): stew, corn bread, blueberry cobbler *wipes drool away*.

First, template for the front lip under the windshield edge:


Cut and glue the front lip, then the skin can be removed...


...to cut the slots that allow the main face to be bent and to cut the defog outlet:


I backed the defog slot with another piece with a narrower slot:

This is so the pleather will tent across the first edge and produce a tapered effect. In the absence of much padding, this will give a more sophisticated look, I hope. I also made a single long slot instead of numerous smaller slots, which looks sleaker IMO.

This is where we're at with the skin glued to the end pieces:




Next will be the lower edge (knee section), tomorrow.

Happy Sunday :wave:


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> I also made a single long slot instead of numerous smaller slots, which looks sleaker IMO.


Custom work FTW! :thumbup::beer:



echassin said:


> Next will be the lower edge (*knee section*), tomorrow.
> 
> Happy Sunday :wave:


I see what you did there... :sly::laugh::wave:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> There are numerous steps involved, and often several attempts, sometimes separated with loud cursing, like this: "@#$%^&*!!!".


One of the things I like most about this forum is the chances to pick up info, like a new language. The above ^, that's French, right? :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> The above ^, that's French, right? :laugh:


Yessir, it stands for: *Ah, MERDE alors! Putain d'Salope!!! T'es degeulase, vas t'faire enculer!!!*

Aaaaand Vortex only knows English 

Paul, I am fully prepared to take my lashing if there are any complaints


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Yessir, it stands for: *Ah, MERDE alors! Putain d'Salope!!! T'es degeulase, vas t'faire enculer!!!*
> 
> ...I am fully prepared to take my lashing if there are any complaints.


Yeah right, so who's gonna gripe?

Us white-bread 'mericuns don't know the language anyway, neurons still trying to get around those Taco Bell commercials with the little rat dog; and that was Spanish (or Tex-mex, maybe).

Any French-type peoples who do know the language are either... well, in France, which means we don't have to care, or in Canada, which means we don't have to...

Oh hi Marc, Freddie, & Cathy! How's that poutain & maple syrup? Seen any mooses lately? :wave: & :laugh:

Zoot allures & all that. [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoot_Allures ]


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

echassin said:


> Yessir, it stands for: *Ah, MERDE alors! Putain d'Salope!!! T'es degeulase, vas t'faire enculer!!!*
> 
> Aaaaand Vortex only knows English


Of course for those of us that don't speak French, or at least by the proper definition thereof, there is always google translate..  :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Black92EightValve said:


> Of course for those of us that don't speak French, or at least by the proper definition thereof, there is always google translate..  :laugh:


Yes there is, and thank goodness kids don't know how to use that :sly:...

One piece every day will finish this thing...someday, so today's piece is the lower lip.

Template(s), and again, be sure to curse liberally and as needed:


Trace, cut out, bend, trial fit, rinse, lather and repeat for the wood piece:

The extra wood above the center console will be trimmed off later, it's just to maintain the proper curve above the narrow area.

Final result after tack gluing it in:




The final compound curve is :thumbup: IMO:


The solid line that follows the front door edge (on the end piece) will be the front edge of a second layer of wood on that will allow the end bolts to countersink into the pleather.


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## MattRabbit (Mar 16, 2000)

Paper mache?? Really?? That's just... really??

Wow.

I guess they really don't make them like they used to, huh? No wonder those dashes crack all the time.

Nice work on creating a new one from scratch. The one in Petra's car looked top notch. Just make sure this one doesn't look quite as good to keep jealousy down and marriage points up. :thumbup:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

MattRabbit said:


> Nice work on creating a new one from scratch. The one in Petra's car looked top notch. Just make sure this one doesn't look quite as good to keep jealousy down and marriage points up. :thumbup:


No worries about him one-upping me on style points. We _aaaallllllllll_ know our roles 'round here. 

A mere "ahem" and a pointy index finger noting "errors" that need rectifying is what keeps the marriage points right where they need to be....in balance.


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## tmechanic (Nov 17, 2004)

echassin said:


> Yessir, it stands for: *Ah, MERDE alors! Putain d'Salope!!! T'es degeulase, vas t'faire enculer!!!*
> 
> Aaaaand Vortex only knows English
> 
> Paul, I am fully prepared to take my lashing if there are any complaints


Did you mean "Ah, MERDE alors! Putain d'Salope!!! T'es_ dégueulasse_, vas _te_ faire enculer!!"?


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Today, in an odd bit of coincidence, Child #2 (in 3rd grade) came up to me because he has some sort of "Career Day" project wherein he needs to write an essay about a career that might interest him. The young lad needed some help.
He choose engineering as his topic and then was supposed to write about what the job is, what engineers do, why such a job is important, etc. 
The trouble with the general topic of engineering is that it involves planning something for someone with some tools and some supplies at some sort of cost. 
All to be determined by...just about everyone involved. 

Which doesn't make a 3rd grader happy, 'cause that info jus' don't make for a good essay.

Just then, Daddy walked into the kitchen with the Project of the Moment*. 
So I said, "Just look at what Dad is doing, that explains it."

Dad pretty much explained it all, quick and dirty-like. 

I think it all made sense for the little guy.



*It is impressive looking, BTW, if you all could see the work-in-progress, you'd be impressed.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

pchassin said:


> A mere "ahem" and a pointy index finger noting "errors" that need rectifying is what keeps the marriage points right where they need to be....in balance.


I do want to specify that The Lady is the one with the finger...and the surplus of Marriage Points to successfully wield said finger .



tmechanic said:


> Did you mean "Ah, MERDE alors! Putain d'Salope!!! T'es_ dégueulasse_, vas _te_ faire enculer!!"?


I shoulda used French Cursing Spellcheck. Does MSWord have that? 



pchassin said:


> Dad pretty much explained it all, quick and dirty-like.
> 
> *It is impressive looking, BTW, if you all could see the work-in-progress, you'd be impressed.


IIRC, I just said that engineers figure out how to make stuff. And thanks for the compliment, Mama :heart:

We were gonna watch TV but the cable box is out and we won't get a another one till tomorrow. Everyone went into their separate corners with their computers, so I futzed around with the skin of the dash, tweaking it, fitting it along the windshield edge, etc... Then I took the skin off so I could reinforce the joints and the slots where I bent the wood. Then I'll polyurethane the inside so humidity doesn't warp it.

So here's where it's at now:



There's still a lot to do, but at this stage the skin mates nicely with the substructure, fits well into the car, and can be easily installed and removed :thumbup:.


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## KRaddatz (Aug 3, 2012)

Looks excellent! Excuse me if it was covered but how's the weight compare to stock?


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## tmechanic (Nov 17, 2004)

echassin said:


> "_Did you mean "Ah, MERDE alors! Putain d'Salope!!! T'es__ dégueulasse, vas te faire enculer!!"?"_
> 
> 
> I shoulda used French Cursing Spellcheck. Does MSWord have that?
> ...


Hey, don't blame me, google axed me, so I axed you.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Bummer, you got axed 

I stopped by the hobby store on the way back from work ("real" work :what and picked up a bunch of bottles of super thin CA (Superglue) for *cough* *gasp* dollars (the most expensive part of these dashes is the glue :screwy

All of the glue joints and all of the slots that were cut to bend the wood are first filled with sawdust and then soaked with the thin CA:

The joints are super strong and the dash is really solid feeling now.

Next, in order to reduce the risk of warping as the thing is exposed to humidity, I slathered the inside with polyurethane:

It's clear, so the dash is dark only because it's soaked, which might reinforce the material as a bonus. Also, astute observers will note that something is being baked in the background. Apparently, and this was as much a surprise to me as it would be to some of you, the surface on which I am photographing the dash is a so-called "countertop" and is in a so-called "kitchen", which is apparently used mostly for food prep, not car projects. Who knew? .

With the dash now strong, I cut off the extra material along the top edge and gave it a preliminary sanding:


The next step is to glue the skin to the substructure and the defog duct. Interestingly the four clips that hold the front lip of the dash in place are attached to the defog duct. To get the skin to sit evenly along the lower windshield edge, the skin needs to be glued at the correct height off of the defog duct. To set that height, I installed the dash, shimmed the skin where I wanted it, and marked the location on the windshield seal with tape:

Astute observers will note the sign hanging on the wall in the background of the pic, which, while it _did_ come from the hospital, I did not technically steal: it was lying on the ground and I simply haven't returned it yet...

With the skin removed but the defog duct in place, shims are glued to the clips and sit 3/16" below the tape marks:

This will set the skin and then I'll fill in any gaps to seal off the defog duct properly.

But that'll wait till tomorrow, while the polyurethane cures.

Oh, edit: as to the weight, Petra's weighed 21 lbs, OEM is 20. The wood is heavier, but the OEM dash has a lot of dense foam, hence the close final result.


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

echassin said:


> Petra's weighed 21 lbs, OEM is 20.


Oh no, you put a number to a woman's weight


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Black92EightValve said:


> Oh no, you put a number to a woman's weight


Petra and I were both wondering if someone would say something along those lines .

More done today after work; the skin is mated to the substructure.

The shims that set the height of the skin along the lower windshield edge:


The lower lip of the dash (knee bar) is held to the steel frame with countersunk bolts:


The rear lip of the defog duct sits right on the skin and is just glued with a bead of silicone:


The front lip of the dash is filled in with wood bits, sanded smooth to make it look easy :sly::


Final view of the underside of the dash:

All that work will never be seen, but it feels good to know it'll all work well and fit right 

Next is install the dash, center console, instrument panel, etc... to get it all set into position so I can make the glovebox surround and have the door fit right.


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

I really like what you do there and I´m amazed by your carpenter skills. :thumbup: The first you made was really good but this here will be better! Great work! :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

All Eyez on me said:


> I really like what you do there and I´m amazed by your carpenter skills. :thumbup: The first you made was really good but this here will be better! Great work! :thumbup:


Thanks, Petra's is conceptually more like a padded piece of furniture, and it's fitting for the way her car is. I hope this one'll look more like part of a piece of machinery, in keeping with the spirit of this car.

Today I spent the morning installing the dash and everything that attaches to it, to make sure it stays straight while I box in the glove...box, and build the instrument pod. I had to do it all a few times to tweak stuff, which is the kind of thing I really enjoy *double hockey sticks emoticon*.:

IMO the result was worth the time, everything flows nicely:

The glovebox is installed on top of the preliminary boxing-in procedure, which I did with 1/32" plywood that we use for R/c planes, and which has I think five (?) layers and must be a ibtch to make, and therefore costs *gasp* *cough* dollars for a little piece. I used thin wood there to keep from moving the glovebox much and messing with the door fit.

With that done, the rest of the glovebox is boxed in with the cheap stuff:

The edges will be trimmed after I take the dash out and reinforce the glue joints from behind.

Tomorrow I hope to start the instrument pod, now it's time watch the boob toob.

Nighty night.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I didn't get much done today because I struggled with some of it, but persistence paid off.

The first part was easy. I put doublers on the ends so that the screws will counter sink:


The fit against the door cards is :thumbup::


The hard part was getting the sides of the pod right:

The pod is built off of these so they need to be level, parallel, etc... which wouldn't be hard except that the curvature of the dash makes each side piece for the pod slightly different where they rest on the dash.

The technique I ended up using was to make as many sets as required to get it right, each separated by vigorous swearing, like this: "@#$%^&*!!!", as is now the norm.

Tomorrow I'll try to get the rest of the pod done, right now, I'm taking The Lady out drinking (seriously!).


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

That's a rare trait: Not knowing how the hell you're going to pull something off, but being confident that you will. Nice work. 


What kind of wood is that exactly? Is it a hardware store find?


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

:heart::thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

20v_boost said:


> That's a rare trait: Not knowing how the hell you're going to pull something off, but being confident that you will. Nice work.
> 
> What kind of wood is that exactly? Is it a hardware store find?


Well, I had _some_ idea, but yeah, not entirely, so thanks for calling me out . The wood is the stuff they make pegboard out of.



fredybender said:


> :heart::thumbup:


Thank you, sir :wave:

Today Petra and I are going into the city for a gala put on by her cousin's hunting club. A venison feast accompanied by beverage and partying :thumbup:. In the time before that I was only able to get part of the pod done, given the constraints of the now well-established technique of making each piece several times :facepalm:.

Here's the bottom of the instrument pod:


I taped a temporary piece to the top so I could box off the instrument panel bezel:


Here's where I had to leave off:


Tomorrow I'll try to do the top, then box off the switch bezels, and thicken the lips above and below the instrument panel bezel.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

More:

Template for the top of the pod:



I used stiff foam from trays they use at work, easy to work with and modify, which made the repetition process less of a clusterufck. Less swearing, more like "harumph", and less like "@#$%^&*!!!". The wood in the holes for the switches is bracing and will be cut out.

The wood piece:

I taped it into position and sprayed the outside with water to bend it without cutting slots into it, and it held its shape perfectly (I thought it would bend back a bit, but it didn't at all)

Glued:




So the dash is structurally complete and comes out for a bunch of this-and-that before covering:


That'll have to wait because I'm Taxi Dad for the afternoon :heart:.


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## sicrocc (Sep 5, 2010)

Pat yourself on the back(more than once !) That is a tremendous undertaking,and the process and pics really are insightful.
Thanks for sharing !!:thumbup:


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

echassin said:


> I taped it into position and sprayed the outside with water to bend it without cutting slots into it, and it held its shape perfectly (I thought it would bend back a bit, but it didn't at all)


Excellent work, as always. Yeah, that's the cool thing about hardboard. Get it wet and it will hold the shape you put it in.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

uh, yeah... no. Um... nevermind. That last post looks like like a minefield, being shelled, gassed, and with rabid gerbils loose.

Not going there.

:laugh:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

crazyaboutrocs said:


> Get it wet and it will hold the shape you put it in.





Eistreiber said:


> uh, yeah... no. Um... nevermind. That last post looks like like a minefield


Good thing that _I_ didn't come up with that first line (_oh, behave!)._

At least no one is tip-toeing through the minefield wearing stilettos.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


>


It truly is a piece of industrial art. If'n ya'll were here, you'd be able to walk around the thing and inspect it from all angles.

I'd even give ya a glass of warmish Chardonnay to mimic the effect of being a critic in an art gallery. You'd have to provide your own black turtleneck and dark skinny jeans.

But, yeah, neat to look at it throughout its progress.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> ...right now, I'm taking The Lady out drinking (seriously!).





echassin said:


> Today Petra and I are going into the city for a gala put on by her cousin's hunting club. A venison feast accompanied by beverage and partying :thumbup:.


What the???
_Somebody_ is making it sound like I am quite the lush.
Harumph.

One mere glass of wine one night, the next was an annual tradition amongst the German-Americans from the hoods of Chi-town. The menfolk of a hunting club throw a bash werein they cook their kills of the season and put on a great big fundraiser so as they can all do it again the next year. Pretty much everyone shows up wearing their best dirndle (the womenfolk), or lederhosen (der Herren) and toast Bambi before getting on the dance floor to either waltz or polka or do the Chicken Dance. The drinking is optional, really.

Great fun.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

pchassin said:


> What the???
> _Somebody_ is making it sound like I am quite the lush.
> Harumph.
> 
> ...


Drinking is never optional. Back me up here, Karl. 

:laugh:


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## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

Dirndles and Stilettos. Only here on the Scirocco forum. Gotta love it.

Exceptionally nice work Eric. As usual.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> I'd even give ya a glass of warmish Chardonnay to mimic the effect of being a critic in an art gallery. You'd have to provide your own black turtleneck and dark skinny jeans.


Would it be OK if I close the exhibit? Say, Molotov's and somebody state the toast?



pchassin said:


> Pretty much everyone shows up wearing their best dirndle (the womenfolk), or lederhosen (der Herren)...


I would like to see you in a dirndle almost exactly as much as I do *NOT* want to see E in lederhosen.
Um... let's call it a wash, OK?



pchassin said:


> The drinking is optional, really. Great fun.





scirocco*joe said:


> Drinking is never optional. *Back me up here, Karl.*





OorsciroccO said:


> Dirndles and Stilettos. Only here on the Scirocco forum. Gotta love it.


Um. Drinking as a way to go where you wouldna' otherwise, sure (see Hemingway and just about anybody Irish).

I do think sometimes ya don't need to walk the path and find oot where it goes... but it's a case by case thing. 


Not that I often do, but every once in while if someone offers me a drink I think it is wise to decline. Just 'cuz.


But enough of this navel-gazing and philosophizing; Dirndels + Stilettoes + Scirocco's + Petra = hmm.... don't know, do ya?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

More on the pod, the switch bezels and the instrument panel lips:

The switch bezels are countersunk and have a gap around them to accomodate the pleather.

Next is general trimming and sanding, make the pod removable so I can cover it separately, and cut the vent holes.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I got all the edges trimmed even and sanded smooth, and worked on making the pod removable so that it can be covered separately.

The first step...is to remove the pod by breaking it free and fixing up the edges:

And speaking of fixing up edges, astute observers will note that for the lip above the intrument panel I cut first and measured later, which resulted in me _adding_ material instead of removing it 

The front lip of the pod has a piece of fiberglass glued to it:

This tends to flatten the bow in the wood, so that when the pod is bolted down there is a lot of pressure on the front seam which keeps the joint tight. That spares the need for numerous fasteners along the front lip like Petra's has.

Said tight seam:


Next is the vents, then cover the thing. I bought the pleather some felt today, and it looks like a single layer of felt under the pleather evens things out nicely and provides a just-right-padded feel to it all :thumbup:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Just curious; I know you have done considerable fabrication with wood (scale aircraft) and you have the process down to that sweet spot somewhere between Science and Dark Art, but... have you considered metal?

Thick gauge aluminum rolled would make for nice smooth curves, and backed up with cross-ribs would be solid.

No need to weld, adhesives have become pretty good. And using metal would eliminate the worries of moisture, expansion/ contraction and warpage, oh my.


Just a thought.


Great work, you can do my MK1 dash rebuilds anytime.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

eistreiber said:


> just curious; i know you have ... considerable...wood... And you have the process down to that sweet spot somewhere between science and dark art
> great work, you can do my_____________anytime.


ftfy 


And ......laughing hysterically all the while :laugh:


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## OorsciroccO (Apr 20, 2006)

pchassin said:


> ftfy
> 
> 
> And ......laughing hysterically all the while :laugh:


Oh my.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> And ......laughing hysterically all the while :laugh:


Well hell.

Not saying that this is why I post random goofy BS carp more often than I should, but OTOH this might be why I don't bother posting serious tech kinda Q's & A's as much as I could.

I will of course always point out errant or missing info, thus (with apologies to both P and E) why'd you not (neither of you) respond to the lay-up of *fabricating* wood?

:laugh:


And yes I know you have kids.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I can't believe we missed the contraction layup . Yes, the wood _does_ contract when cold, and it expands when warm and moist :sly:.

But Seriously Folks, making the whole thing out of aluminum would be taking things to a whole other level that I am not able or willing to do.

I'm thinking the wood substrate will last "forever", and that the pleather will be relatively easy to replace when the Sun gets done with it.


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## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

wow that all happened:facepalm: while most of amerika was sleeping


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Neptuno said:


> wow that all happened:facepalm: while most of amerika was sleeping


Working with wood often does, Badaboom! I'll be here all week Folks 

Last big step before covering was the vents.

Start with what's given, mainly the outlets for the lower vents, which pass through the steel frame and the position of which is therefore fixed:


Enlarge the hole so the vent countersinks:

Petra's dash is padded so the vents countersunk into the padding, but mine won't be padded much so the vents need to countersink into the wood.

The side vents fit onto the lower vents and the outlets for the defog ducts, and the position is also fixed, but harder to discern. The center vent fits into the center duct outlet, and is screwed to the steel frame of the dash. For these three items, I cut the holes way small and slowly enlarged them until the vents dropped in correctly:


I added lips to the inside edges of the holes so the vents don't fall into the dash, and everything fits well:


Next is round all the corners, cover, and install :beer:


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

I bet that you probably won't ever have to recover it due to sun or cold, considering the materials you are using are probably better than what the factory used. Plus, with a little padding, I think it will have a little flex to the pleather which is good too.


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

Did I told you I damn love this?

No?

Hell I do! :thumbup:

Great work! :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

All Eyez on me said:


> :thumbup:


Thank you, Sir. 

I agree that good pleather is durable, but I can't imagine it'll last "forever" with the Chicago summer Sun beating down on it day after day. And beat down on it the Sun shall, because there's no garage spot for this car.

Speaking of the Sun, it arrived today in Chicago, and Spring has sprung, to wit, Snowdrops:


I don't feel much like staying inside, but I did get all the edges sanded round and everything covered in felt:


The pod isn't screwed down yet, it's just on the dash for photographic composition. The felt is stretchy so the pod and the dash are each covered in one piece of material. The felt gives a very slightly padded feel, just enough so the dash won't feel like it's made out of hard plastic when it's all done.

Tomorrow I'll start on the pleather.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey!

Construction of the new dash is done, and I'm happy with the result. Son #1 made it to the regional level with his Science Fair project, so I'll install the dash tomorrow.

For now, here's where it's at. The pod in Pleather:

This is one piece of Pleather with the seams hidden on the bottom. The switch bezels are glued in and they countersunk nicely.

The dash in Pleather and the pod screwed down:

The seam between the pod and the dash is noish and toight.

The vents intalled and the instrument panel installed:


The glovebox door in Pleather:


The glovebox door installed and adjusted:




The main section of the dash is also covered in a single piece of Pleather. It's a little stretchy with a heat gun, but there's a limit, so I hid a seam low on each end:

The end screws counterink nicely also.

Tomorrow: install, vacuum all the sawdust out the car, and maybe even take it for its Spring carwash .

BTW, my camera got stuck in a "soft focus" mode and playing with the menu options isn't doing any good. I even tried reading the instructions (it was that bad ). If anyone knows how to take care of that, IM me. It's Nikon S3300 point-and-shoot.


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

This looks great! :thumbup: You Sir have my respect for doing a amazing dash job. :thumbup:


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## likearoc (Apr 10, 2013)

*Noice!!!*

I've been following this dash build from the start and I must say I am highly impressed with how this came out. You've done a fine job and now have something to admire every time you get behind the wheel. I wish I could do this with my S1 dash, unfortunately it's constructed totally different.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

"Touch it, it's firm."
Swear to Gott, that was the first thing he said to me, when we got home today. 
But seriously, folks, up close and in 3-D, 'tis impressive to observe.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Thank god this isn't the Chit-Chat thread with rules like "pic for page ownership". After that last post I'm not sure what we'd be looking at, and ya know, I'm really OK with that.

:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

When I said it, it really _was_ innocent (rarely the case, I admit), but I knew P. wouldn't miss it :heart:.

Today: Coffee, comics, install the dash, clean the car.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alrighty, thing's done (sorry 'bout the pics, I can't get the camera out of "soft focus" mode):








The general effect is very different from Petra's dash, and is akin to the solid molded plastic dashes some early Rabbits had. I think if I do another one, I might look for a middle ground between Petra's, which she likes but IMO is _too_ padded, and this one which is too hard. Maybe a second layer of felt.

As far as overall shape, fit, function, etc, I couldn't be happier.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> As far as overall shape, fit, function, etc, I couldn't be happier.


Awesome! :thumbup::beer:


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## JimRocco (Mar 2, 2014)

You might try resetting the camera back to factory defaults.

Press the menu button, down arrow and then select Reset all

Or select the Single AF focus mode. Menu, Auto Focus, select Single AF


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> When I said it, it really _was_ innocent... but I knew P. wouldn't miss it.


Yeah, with her the hazard isn't so much being suggestive of innuendo; it's that she's already there and just needs someone to select a theme.



echassin said:


> Maybe a second layer of felt.


We are talking about the stepchild, correct? How much is that redundant felt gonna weigh?


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> Yeah, with her the hazard isn't so much being suggestive of innuendo; it's that she's already there and just needs someone to select a theme.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Good one :laugh:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> Good one :laugh:


So I've been told, usually over breakfast.

[ announcer yells "... and volley! Clears the net!" ]

Not saying I like tennis, a ping-pong reference woulda worked as well.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Outstanding, impressive, and even more, I would accord an epithet of "wow"
:wave:


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## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

I am totally impressed!
Especially after looking at the craters in my dash yesterday.
I've got three spare dashes and none of them look this good!


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## 16VScirrocco88 (Apr 13, 2003)

about to pull my dash and box it up to send to Eric for his *E*_pi_*C* dash rebuild LOL:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


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## gamblinfool (Sep 28, 2001)

Sick! :thumbup::beer:


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

wow, that dash came out great.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Some would say.... Surgical precision.....


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

It looks so clean and nice. I love it! :thumbup:


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Wow, I'm super impressed with how it came out, it looks amazing! Thanks for posting up the steps you took to make this beauty. Not that I have the skills to pull it off, but I am sure someone can use it down the line when this is our only option.


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## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

I like it!


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## LubsDaDubs (Apr 6, 2004)

Ive recently picked up wn original 75 mk1 dash and much to my delight have discovered that it has a complete metal sub scructure as opposed to cardboard, it would be interesting to see what it would look like fully stripped, however it is not overly cracked so it may be a shame to strip it! 
I enjoy following along with all your builds as your attention to detail is superb.
:thumbup:


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## d-bot (Sep 6, 2004)

LubsDaDubs said:


> Ive recently picked up wn original 75 mk1 dash and much to my delight have discovered that it has a complete metal sub scructure as opposed to cardboard, it would be interesting to see what it would look like fully stripped, however it is not overly cracked so it may be a shame to strip it!
> I enjoy following along with all your builds as your attention to detail is superb.
> :thumbup:


This is a great result here, good work! 

I stripped down my last mk1 dash to the metal and overall it's about 80% there. The gaps are at the corners so doing radius could be a challenge unless one is a metal worker.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for the kudos 

I drove it today and it does feel good to peer out over a nice straight dash with no cracks. Hopefully it'll last.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> I drove it today and it does feel good to peer out over a nice straight dash with no cracks. Hopefully it'll last.


So you're sayin' ...



pchassin said:


> "it's firm."


I'm happy for ya's both and all that.

Go get a room.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'da quoted "it's firm" first, then quoted "hopefully it'll last", and there's your perfect layup for whatever you want, like "you know, for guys our age, they make a pill for that", or "that's what she said", etc...


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

echassin said:


> I'da quoted "it's firm" first, then quoted "hopefully it'll last", and there's your perfect layup for whatever you want, like "you know, for guys our age, they make a pill for that", or "that's what she said", etc...


or this:



echassin said:


> it does feel good


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Fun update from today: we were shopping for flagstone and the scale operator at the quarry weighed the Stepchild (full tank and nothing else): 2100 lbs, which is a good way to weigh it because you need gas in it to drive it .

His scale reads +/- 20 lbs. Depending on what a "full tank" actually means, plus the fact that gas weighs anywhere from 5.8 to 6.6 lbs per gallon, I get a range of 2003 to 2062 lbs "empty weight" for the car, which AFAIK is how the factories weigh cars.

I know I took 235 lbs out of the car during the build, by omissions, deletions, or by using lighter stuff (Euro bumpers, smaller radiator, manual windows, etc...). Ergo, this car's OEM empty weight was between 2238 and 2297 lbs.

The 16 kit weighs 25 lbs, the sunroof about 10 (I couldn't weigh the frame that is welded to the roof), and the wing was about 25 lbs IIRC. Therefore, I could have gotten under 2000lbs, but only by starting with a non-sunroof shell and by relinquishing the "16V" appearance, leaving out the rear seat, skipping the HVAC, etc...

IOW, a 16V S2 is kinda pudgy, which we already knew :heart:.

It also means that Petra's loaded 16V with automatic conversion weighs 2300+ lbs empty, which I feel is best not discussed in the Lady's thread...


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Depending on what a "full tank" actually means, plus the fact that gas weighs anywhere from 5.8 to 6.6 lbs per gallon, I get a range of 2003 to 2062 lbs "empty weight" for the car...


The problem is the scale used; gasoline never weighs any less than it does if measured by weight, what changes is the volume. A Challenge given with sympathy (I did the same google search you did); define volume in a way that doesn't have to allow for temperature, atmospheric pressure, whether it's fluid or fire... that kinda stuff.

But at least there's now a hard... well, "firm" number for reference though. 

Kudo's for being AR enough to check actual weight when you have the opportunity.



echassin said:


> I know I took 235 lbs out of the car during the build, by omissions, deletions, or by using lighter stuff (Euro bumpers, smaller radiator, manual windows, etc...). Ergo, this car's OEM empty weight was between 2238 and 2297 lbs.
> 
> ...a (blah-blah irrelevant valve count) S2 is kinda pudgy, which we already knew.


'zackly.



echassin said:


> It also means that Petra's loaded 16V with automatic conversion weighs 2300+ lbs empty, which I feel is best not discussed in the Lady's *presence*...


Yer call. You live there, and with summer approaching prob'ly don't wanna spend 24/7/365 wearing body armor.

*FTFY.*

:laugh:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> IOW, a 16V S2 is kinda pudgy, which we already knew :heart:.
> 
> It also means that Petra's loaded 16V with automatic conversion weighs 2300+ lbs empty, which I feel is best not discussed in the Lady's thread...


Wait...does this car make me look fat????


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

pchassin said:


> Wait...does this car make me look fat????


*Tugs anxiously with index finger at sweaty shirt collar* :heart:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> Wait...does this car make me look fat????


No, just the opposite. It's sort of a fringe benefit of a low slung sports-coupe, if you're female & work the egress process right. Combo of deep footwell & long legs, time taken to extract latter from former (more is better).

For some reason I just had a fleeting thought, something about preaching to the choir? I wonder what that's all about... eh, couldna have been all that important.



echassin said:


> *Tugs anxiously with index finger at sweaty shirt collar*


See what I did for you there^ ? Now all you have to do is keep a straight face & not drool whilst you "gentlemanly-ish" 'hold the door' for P when she's getting out of or into her car. Might even get a marriage point or two outta the deal.

:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> See what I did for you there^ ?
> :laugh:


Yessir, and Thank You, Sir 

On a bummer note, the _one_ friggin' time I run errands in the Cabby instead of taking the Stepchild, a slammed Tornado Red S2 with a nice exhaust note, driven by two youngsters, pulls out right in front of us at Home Depot.

The worst part is that the driver gave me a slightly apologetic nod, along the lines of "yeah, your Cabby's OK, but you don't have a *Scirocco*. What could I do?!! Before I could explain that I _do_ have a Scirocco, _I do,_ they were gone .


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> What could I do?!!


Ya know... you claim to have grown up in Chicago but sometimes sound more like you was raised in some poofta place where they drive on the the right side of the road, but the cars look funny.

*Chicago*. Do the math, & dead voters count.

IIRC you should have at least a bit of decent Tornado Red paint around, in fluid form; yes?

Mix and spray on a piece of sheet tin. Let dry. Whack tin and paint against Cabby.

Now you have "evidence" by Chi-rules of having been hit and run *by them.*

So... game so-called "Justice System" to track 'em down, sue for damage to Cabby; what a coincidence the amount is 'zackly same as value of a slammed S2.


Thus with luck you not only reiterate yer masculinity, but also gain a car which you can make into something to be proud of (first task to be done: unslam, if you have any aesthetic taste at all), and have taught a useful lesson of Life to:



echassin said:


> ...two youngsters


which they can learn now semi-easy or learn later the hard way, to wit; _Age & treachery will always overcome youth & righteousness._

Yer doing them a favor, by Chi-rules. :laugh:


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## 88 SCIROCCO 16V (Jul 23, 2014)

echassin said:


> Alrighty, thing's done (sorry 'bout the pics, I can't get the camera out of "soft focus" mode):
> 
> 
> 
> As far as overall shape, fit, function, etc, I couldn't be happier.


This dash is BANANAS, superb work, bravo....

I am assuming you had the foresight to have a working template for others to copy, yes, no, maybe so?


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## Chris16vRocco (Apr 30, 2006)

echassin said:


> IOW, a 16V S2 is kinda pudgy, which we already knew :heart:


To be fair, it is still a relative lightweight all things considered. I defy you to find a car on sale today in this country that weighs in under 2400 lbs.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

The Ice King, he's patron saint of something or the other...

Kudos to Team E.&P. C.!



-posted from the tiny not-so-smart -fone...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Update:

The car's been done for 3+ years and I've put 11000 miles on it, and overall it's holding up well. The most obvious patina is on the roof and the hood, which are oxidizing from being out in the Sun/bad weather all the time. Buffing/waxing makes it look good for a while, but I think I'll reserve that for pre-Cincy preening, lest the paint end up thin soon.

Today's work was to address the CV boots, which I installed new in May of 2012, and which now look like this:

I'm not sure what brand they are, but make sure you don't use those 

The rest of the machine looks good:



And yes, the K-bar is a bit "flat". It's not strong enough to jack the car .

The "help" (I'm using the term charitably):

Astute observers will note appropriate fashionwear .

Completed axles:


Everything's back together, disappointing to have to do it again so soon, but these new boots have "Made in USA" molded onto them, hopefully that still means something...

I renovated the Cabby in the winter of 2012 and the boots are doing the same thing, so that car's next.

Carry on :wave:


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Good thing you caught it before they flung grease all over everything.

I still can't believe how awesome that dashboard looks.

Are you missing the horns?

-Alex


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

20v_boost said:


> Good thing you caught it before they flung grease all over everything.
> 
> I still can't believe how awesome that dashboard looks.
> 
> ...


Thanks, the dash is my favorite thing on the car. I get to stare at it everytime I drive 

The Cabby is flinging a little grease on the passenger side, so these really don't last. I didn't overfill them, overstretch them, etc... There's a whole thread in the Golf1 section on this issue :thumbdown:

The horns are one of many things fully deleted on the car, including the wiring and relay. I kept stuff I knew I'd need a lot, like the rear defogger, but got rid of stuff I'd rarely use, like the rear wiper.

I have found myself road-rage-y, and wished I had the horn


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Update with a question:

Background: We bought a Passat 16V 2.0/4 speed auto so we can upgrade wifey's 3 speed auto to a 4 speed auto. The plan is also to upgrade the Stepchild's tired 1.8 16V with the Passat's fresh 2.0 16V.

I've read that the 1.8 16V head on the 2.0 block is "better" than the 2.0 head on the 2.0 block because of port configuration. If the difference is obvious _with normal driving_, I might spring to have my tired 1.8 head rebuilt, but if it's a minimal difference, I'll probably use the 2.0 head as-is.

So *here's the question*: Does anyone know of good data (ideally overlapping dyno graphs), comparing a _stock_ 1.8 16V with a _stock_ 2.0 16V, with a _unmodified_ 2.0 16V block/_unmodified _1.8 16V head hybrid?

I am NOT looking for any data on anything with any mods like cams, stand alone EFI, porting, etc...

Thanks in advance


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## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

i remember this question being debated and the conclusion seemed to be that the 1.8 head is better out the box but the 2.0 is better to modify. I am looking right now to see if i can find the info in my long list of bookmarks.


edit....most links are dead but found this http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3504431-More-16v-Head-flow-Data.stock-VS-ported&highlight=flow+16v

it seems if you dont do any work to either use the one in the best condition. if you do any porting& polishing it doesn't matter


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Hmm... from what I've heard of it; it's mostly about response & drive-ability, where would like your torque curve to begin? What is your arc and radii preference?

If doing a "2.0L" engine, the 1.8L head will give you more usable punch sooner and at lower rpm compared to the 2.0L head. Maybe more "finesse" too?

I don't have dyno data; but (E) if you'd like to send me a stock 1.8L 16v, a stock 2.0L 16v, and a dyno I'll see what I can come up with for quantifiable comparison.

:laugh: I think it's gonna come down to butt-dyno, and to really get a fair evaluation you'd have to build and install and drive both ways (yeah, I know, "phrasing").


I think it's a bit like the Euro- 50mm intakes for 16v, yay another few HP at 6800 rpm or so; but... where do you want & mostly use your punch? Off the red light, or bouncing off the red-line? Where to you plan to be/ drive more often? It's a personal choice, like owning a Mk2 (zing! pow!!).

If I were you... if the 2.0L complete engine is solid and good, install as is. Drive it and get used to it. You're going to rebuild the 1.8L head anyway (you know you are), so... sometime when you get bored swap heads and compare by butt-dyno. Where's torque? Is it predictable? Was it good (for you?)?


In very *(very!)* general terms; a head sized for a smaller engine is quicker to respond to minor throttle changes, the air flow is through a smaller channel and *has to* react faster. Bigger path is like... more ways for the air to wander around and lose focus.

Old dad school stuff was tuning air-flow; match intake to exhaust (bores, flow, cams & valve timing) and build an engine that would scream but only within a narrow plus- minus range, call it +/- 500 rpm of 'optimum', was otherwise about as unresponsive and useful as microwaved dog-poo.

But oh... get it in the sweet-spot... 


Go with the 2.0L head for now. But don't marry it (that would perhaps might just piss P off anyway, and FWIW she and I are having a discussion about crossbows. Just so you know. Probably just coincidence, she's wanting maybe an alternative to her aging elbows).

:laugh:


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Why not do a compression check on both engines first before deciding? You can add a bit of oil to the cylinders to effectively compare head to head. Haha see what I did there? Then just use the better one. It will also let you know how the rings are. No sense putting in an engine that needs a rebuild.

Then you rebuild the other engine over the winter. Get some total seal rings, mild port and polish (just clean up the casting marks) and you're good to go. I get the sense that you're not looking to compromise on drivability. Would you be opposed to a mild cam? How bout megasquirt? My 16vt on megasquirt drives better than stock with much more low end torque. I think it's mostly due to really being able to dial in the ignition map off idle. Plus you'd be able to ditch half your wiring harness and replace 2 or 3 of those control unit boxes with the 1 MS box. 

-Alex


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

It's not just about the size of the ports, but it's also about air velocity. IMO if you're going to just use it as stock, stay with the 2.0 head, it was designed to work with the 2.0 and to give it better torque - that's why the ports are shaped differently than they are on the 1.8 

I have run both heads on a 2.0 bottom end, but I can't give you a direct comparison because my 1.8 head has Autotech cams & springs


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Based on the low end torque idea, and in the absence of overlapping dyno curves, I'm liking keeping the 2.0 engine whole to swap into the Stepchild with no other mods, and swapping the 1.8 into the Passat without a rebuild so my kid can total--er--_drive_ it. Before we start ripping everything apart, Luke and I are planning to go through the Passat and fix up stuff to see what we end up with (it's worth it; the car really has zero rust )

The other fun engine mods mentionned are not my style


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

20v_boost said:


> Why not do a compression check on both engines first before deciding? You can add a bit of oil to the cylinders to effectively compare head to head. Haha see what I did there? Then just use the better one. It will also let you know how the rings are. No sense putting in an engine that needs a rebuild.
> 
> Then you rebuild the other engine over the winter. Get some total seal rings, mild port and polish (just clean up the casting marks) and you're good to go. I get the sense that you're not looking to compromise on drivability. Would you be opposed to a mild cam? How bout megasquirt? My 16vt on megasquirt drives better than stock with much more low end torque. I think it's mostly due to really being able to dial in the ignition map off idle. Plus you'd be able to ditch half your wiring harness and replace 2 or 3 of those control unit boxes with the 1 MS box.
> 
> -Alex


I ran a compression check on the Passat 2.0 16V and got 200 all the way across without adding oil to the cylinders .

The 1.8 in the Stepchild is around 150 IIRC. OK but certainly "tired". I'm having fun putzing around with the Passat as is for now, but when I take the 2.0 out, the best anyone can hope for the Passat is for me to install the 1.8 without a rebuild. The 1.8 pulls hard, runs perfect, doesn't drip at all, and burns a quart every 1500 miles, which would be fine for a teen's first car IMO.


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

echassin said:


> I ran a compression check on the Passat 2.0 16V and got 200 all the way across without adding oil to the cylinders


Sounds about right, that's what the 2.0 in my '88 tested out at just before Izzy bought it.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

heh, heh, heh:

The donor is coming off life support.

All I have to do is disconnect the axles, hang the drivetrain on the hoist, undo the mounts and the Passat will finally relinquish its heart to the Stepchild .


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> heh, heh, heh: All I have to do is disconnect the axles, hang the drivetrain on the hoist, undo the mounts and the Passat will finally relinquish its heart to the Stepchild .


video, MF'r. Time-stamped.

:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> video, MF'r. Time-stamped.
> 
> :laugh:


We have video of the engine being hauled out of the bay, but L is still trying to rotate it right .

For now:

It's still contaminated with a lot of grease, grime, dirt, and residual Passat parts, but I'm one step closer to 2L goodness 

What a pain to get the thing out of the Passat. We're gonna have to make a lot more room to stuff anything back in there (remove the axles, install the drivetrain stripped down completely, etc...)

What I've learned so far: the 4 speed automatic would _not_ drop right into P's Scirocco. There's nowhere on the 4 speed to bolt the 010's mount, and frankly the thing looks like it might be too big.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Success!




I feel like I'm almost caught up to the 21st century


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## 81MarsRedS (Apr 24, 2014)

Hope you got the rights to the Duran Duran soundtrack


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> We have video of the engine being hauled out of the bay, but L is still trying to rotate it right .
> 
> It's still contaminated with a lot of grease, grime, dirt, and residual Passat parts, but I'm one step closer to 2L goodness.





echassin said:


> Success!
> 
> I feel like I'm almost caught up to the 21st century


Nicely done!, and out the top even! But hmm... if'n you're going to be a film-maker you have to do the standard disclaimers and comments, "video eventually rotated by L and if the lil' SOB wants to go all Union and crap he'll have to cook his own food, wash his own dishes & clothes, and I'm going to re-po the Lego box."

Or "No Oxy's or Acetylene's were harmed in the making of this video."

Ya know, stuff like that.



81MarsRedS said:


> Hope you got the rights to the Duran Duran soundtrack


Let's see... an English band that took their name from a truly awful French-Italian film starring an American actress of ill-repute because of her actions during a war in South-east Asia whose poorly done 'muzak' is playing in the background of a video shot in Chicago of the removal of the engine from a German car probably built in Mexico?

That'll be some fun in court! opcorn:

I mean, just saying. That's like a party at the UN, and all the translators are stoned.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> out the top even!


To get it out the bottom would have required removal of the subframe and IIRC a bunch of suspension bits that mount there, so out the top was quicker and the car got to stay on all fours:

"Bichun stance, Dude!"

Today's progress, my 2.0 upgrade has been purified of any residual Passat parts:

Next is cleaning and detailing the engine, then swap it into the Stepchild.

BTW, I had a lot of fun lugging the 4 speed automatic into the basement...


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> BTW, I had a lot of fun lugging the 4 speed automatic into the basement...


Stop doing that schitt, it'll hurt your neck (too). Build an addition to your garage. Don't give me no whine about the HOA, you live in *Chicago.* Bribe somebody.

Jeez, do I have to think for everybody?

:beer:


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

Since the front end comes off, I find the easiest way to remove the engine is to come right out the front. Take off the bumper, rad support and all that fun stuff, then once everything else is disconnected, with the motor/trans supported from below, just disconnect all the mounts and pull it out the front. My favorite piece of equipment for this type of removal is a motorcycle jack. You can support the motor and trans on it, then just wheel it on out.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> Stop doing that schitt, it'll hurt your neck (too). Build an addition to your garage. Don't give me no whine about the HOA, you live in *Chicago.* Bribe somebody.
> 
> Jeez, do I have to think for everybody?
> 
> :beer:


Yes.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Sheesh, I didn't carry the transmission on my _head_ .


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

A few hours after work with brushes and degreaser:

A little detailing with paint tomorrow and I think it'll be ready to swap in.

I don't know the history of this thing but it seems like it's been hot-tanked before. The block is not near as crusty as everything else I've worked on of this vintage, certainly with 150,000 miles. That and the 200 psi compression, clean piston tops, prominent hatch marks, absence of cylinder top-ridging (IDK what that's called), and no dripping from any of the seals makes me hopeful that the thing was recently rebuilt.


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## LubsDaDubs (Apr 6, 2004)

I'd recommend replaceing the rear main seal dripping or not, its just me but thats one of those i'd rather know its new while i can access it kind of seals.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Looking good


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Sheesh, I didn't carry the transmission on my _head_ .


OK, so...

The coccyx bone(s) be connected to the sacrum bone(s) solidly, then they are connected to the lumbar bones.
The lumbar bones are connected to the thoracic bones..

[let's get some back-beat going, anybody know how to run a drum kit? Maybe some guitar, or harp? Fair warning, anyone tries to bring in bagpipes or a sitar I'm just saying, I *will *hunt you down, and your little dog too. I'm mostly OK with 'ethnic' music but there needs to be a basic rule, perhaps a law, "strangle a cat, Go to Jail!" ]

The thoracic bones are connected to the cervical bones,
the cervical bones *are your frigging neck.**

The cervical bones support your skull bone, which is where your frigging brain lives.
Consider the engineering of a suspension bridge for a moment.



Now reiterate:



echassin said:


> Sheesh, I didn't carry the transmission on my _head_ .


yes you did. Don't haul heavy crap into the basement unless you want me to have to implement my 'just in case P ever becomes a widow' plan. I will *also* console Marlene... you get what I'm saying?

:laugh:


[in fairness... E it's not you, I think everyone that's ever been a patient of any doctor (and that's... pretty much everybody) has wanted to go off on a rant. You wrote an opening big enough to drive a truck through blindfolded, by ear. Your neck is your head is your spine is the load, you *know* that. Light stuff to the basement fine, but heavy stuff? No! Build a frigging little shed outside. ]

* reference is the original "The Longest Yard" with Burt Reynolds, and Richard Kiel (and others). RKs character is defense, clotheslines some poor bastard, "I think I broke his frigging neck!" Great movie.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> Don't haul heavy crap into the basement unless you want me to have to implement my 'just in case P ever becomes a widow' plan. I will *also* console Marlene...


Right there are two really good reasons for me to stay alive .

Do P. and Marlene have any say in these nefarious plans of yours? 

Anyhoo, I have the day off and detailed the engine:



Astute observers will note I left the oil pan. I was surprised to find that Passat 2.0 16V cars are born with the early small oil pan, not the larger 4.7 quart piece found on later cars . I'm just using this pan as the engine stand, and plan to replace it ASAP, maybe after I get the swap done so I don't scratch up the new one.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

LubsDaDubs said:


> I'd recommend replaceing the rear main seal dripping or not, its just me but thats one of those i'd rather know its new while i can access it kind of seals.


Please please please do this! It's SO stinking easy to do it while the lump is out of the car and the transmission is out. 

Otherwise, carry on, good folks! :thumbup:


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## PA Rocco (Jul 19, 2015)

Do you re-use the manifold studs or are they there only to protect threads until you're ready for new ones?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

All advice noted. I decide to replace things based on a complex algorithm that is anything but scientific, and not much like a real algorithm .

Seals I replace if I know they "old" or if I "think" they'll leak "soon". How easy or hard they are to get at does figure into the equation "a little".

Fasteners I usually re-use if I can clean them up. Exceptions: head bolts, the crank sprocket bolt on a 16V, or if new fasteners come with whatever I bought (calipers, axle bolts, axle nuts, etc...).

I'm having this uneasy feeling that I need to find my flame suit, like when I fessed up that I wasn't relaying my headlights, lest I endanger millions of innocent children .

Tomorrow I plan to start clearing the Stepchild's engine bay .


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Don't forget new flywheel to pressure plate bolts...


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Right there are two really good reasons for me to stay alive.


Glad to help you out! Billing in 30 days, who is your insurance carrier? (I can do a deal, 15% off for cash in small un-marked bills).

:laugh:


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## Black92EightValve (Oct 23, 2003)

ziggirocco said:


> Don't forget new flywheel to pressure plate bolts...


Also, if you do re-use the pressure plate to crank bolts, make sure you use sufficient Loctite.. It really sucks when those bolts back out, ask me how I know, damned previous owners :banghead:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Red locktight on old crank bolts, a-yup.

"The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time":

"New" 2.0 on the left, "old" 1.8 on the right (and not looking too bad for 193,000 miles ).

One thing I found, which is in keeping with my bad habit of under-tightening stuff: the alternator bracket that goes on the block was missing a bolt . Well, at least nothing fell off (this time...)

The engine bay will get a little tidying tonight after dinner, but it also doesn't look too bad for a daily that slept outside for 3+ years:


L has a video of the old lump being hauled out of the bay, but he's trying to speed it up so we look like busy bees.

Tomorrow, I'll hopefully get the 2.0 installed, but 'till then, Adios! :wave:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> Glad to help you out! Billing in 30 days, who is your insurance carrier? (I can do a deal, 15% off for cash in small un-marked bills).
> 
> :laugh:


Here's one small bill for you:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> "The only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time":
> 
> 
> "New" 2.0 on the left, "old" 1.8 on the right
> ...


Nice work, Baby...keep it up :thumbup:


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## lechassin (Dec 21, 2015)

L here!
I recorded the Engine removal from the stepchild.


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## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

Cool video!:thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Engine's in and running but I can't drive it till I figure out why the self-adjusting clutch cable is way too tight . The clutch works but it engages only when the pedal almost fully released.

I'm off to use the Search function and I need a rest. Long day.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> ...but I can't drive it till I figure out why the *self-adjusting* clutch cable is way too tight.


Simple rule, "self-adjusting" works about as well as "universal fuel pump" or "one-size-fits-all" thong. No it don't adjust right, no the pump ain't 'universal', and no just NO the thong don't fit all.

Just saying.

That's why I never used them. I can adjust better to where I want it (re-adjust every 6k miles, or 10k; depends on footgear) than anything made for cheap.

I like about 1/2 to 5/8" freeplay at the pedal, just enough to feel with a toe. Clutch *free* about 2 to 3 inches farther (still well clear of the floor). You can stab-shift, not saying you should; but hey it's your transaxle.


Pull the cable and figure it out (lube it while it's out... try a motorcycle shop). Set for max "loose", dial tighter to "got grip" for the initial set-point.

Clutch cable is Art... Bentley only defines the spectrum.


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

The self adjusting cable has some sort of one-way deal. I've re-used mine (for a while at least) by compressing / resetting it and hooking up the side strap things. Then you can install it and release the side straps in stitu. However after a while mine stopped working right. Then I bought a manually adjustable one. Then I went to an 02J with hydraulic clutch. 

-Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Happy Valentine's Day! I hope Santa (or who ever is in charge today) got you everything you wanted.

A new clutch cable is on its way with the new larger oil pan. The old cable's sleeve is stuck fully extended for some reason. I'm gonna cut it apart to see how they made it.

After a bit of tidying, here we are:

I'll wash the bay in the Spring. 

The thing sounds *great*. I can't wait to feel how it pulls .

Edit: I don't know why the top of the grill looks red in the pic , that isn't overspray


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> Happy Valentine's Day! I hope Santa (or who ever is in charge today) got you everything you wanted.
> 
> 
> The thing sounds *great*. I can't wait to feel how it pulls .


Not Santa, he's a Nordic dude. A WASP, I believe
Yer thinking of Cupid, a Latin guy. His cousin is Eros, he's Greek. 

They both do their shopping for weaponry (both are big fans of archery, they could teach Katniss a thing or two. Tool of choice: bow and arrow) at Bass Pro Shop.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I have re-et my self adjusting clutch cable also. It's a royal pain, but can be done. It was probably 10 years ago and I don't remember exactly how to do it, but it's not hard to figure out if you have it in your hand. I think it involved removing it from the clutch pedal to get enough slack (then you "**** it" and hook up the straps, then put the top end back on the pedal). I think it's kind of like the clicker part of a ball point pen. You do have to re-engage the straps though. If they are missing, it will be very hard to hold it while reattaching it to the clutch lever on the transmission.

If it was too lose, I would say the adjusting end is broken and can't be fixed (collapsed). However with it being too tight, I would say the straps weren't engaged before it was removed and it just "adjusted" itself for what it "thought" was an almost worn-out clutch disk and/or flywheel surface. 


-Eric


VW Vortex censored my reply. The word that was censored is what you do to a gun before you shoot it. It's also a slang term for penis.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I took the mechanism apart and was able to see how it works, collapse it and...

...it still wouldn't adjust. Ergo new cable.

I also learned a tough lesson today which betrays my inexperience with swaps. When you do what I usually do and not modify much, you basically just need to reassemble whatever you take apart. You need to be more careful when swapping stuff:

I noticed today whille mating the Passat's transmission onto the Stepchild's old 1.8 that the front centering tube for the trans was still in the trans and that the corresponding tube was still in the Stepchild's old block, which is an easy fix (just remove either tube and assemble).

But after a few seconds I realized that the Stepchild's 5 speed is very likely poorly mated to the 2.0 block because the front alignment tube is not there.So, at some point I get to take a bunch of isht apart to install that teeny little (but critical) part .

I think I'll wait and do it at the same time as the new oil pan, so I can do those two pan bolts on the gearbox side easier.


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## onurB (Nov 4, 2010)

echassin-esque rabbit?










[/threadjack]


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

^^^Not bad!

Hey, question for the group: have any of you successfully put Motronic on a 1.8 16V? My research comes up empty. There's no lug in the block for the 2nd (driver's side) knock sensor, not even on the back of the block. 

I put the Stepchild's 1.8 16V into Luke's Passat, and I resorted to JB welding a bung to the block next to the oil filter flange. That's obviously shady at best...


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Knock sensing is pretty sensitive stuff. I think the JB weld would mute all the sound coming through the block. I would leave the second knock sensor either unplugged or plugged in and tucked away. The last thing you want is for it to be picking up on some sound that it mistakes for knock. Then it will pull timing and the engine will be a slug. Valve train noise can sometimes sound like knock to an ecu. Megasquirt guys have been fighting this for a while. I'm not running a knock sensor.

-Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## glidrew (Jul 25, 2002)

looking good Eric
hows things?
did you hear what Chris went and did?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> ^^^Not bad!
> 
> Hey, question for the group: have any of you successfully put Motronic on a 1.8 16V? My research comes up empty. There's no lug in the block for the 2nd (driver's side) knock sensor, not even on the back of the block.
> 
> I put the Stepchild's 1.8 16V into Luke's Passat, and I resorted to JB welding a bung to the block next to the oil filter flange. That's obviously shady at best...


Two quick suggestions: 

1. Get a bolt longer than the original knock sensor bolt to account for two knock sensors and mount them both to the same spot. It should be longer by exactly the depth of the second knock sensor.

2. Get a bolt longer than the original distributer block off plate bolt and mount the second one there (down by the starter). This is easier to get to, especially with the engine already installed.

Bonus suggestion: When mine was new, I lived in TX and the knock sensor would retard my timing if it "heard" any noise in the vicinity. I had it go into limp-home mode several times if the A/C kicked on or if I ground my gears. You could mount the 2nd one to the transmission, A/C compressor or anything that's bolted to the engine (like the intake manifold). It should still be able to "hear" any detonations.

Since it could "hear" my A/C compressor kick on or me grinding gears, it only makes sense that the knock sensor system should be able to "hear" any knock even if it's mounted on an ancillary.


Of course, these are not perfect solutions. 

-Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

glidrew said:


> looking good Eric
> hows things?
> did you hear what Chris went and did?


Mmmm, noooo, whadeedoo?



20v_boost said:


> Knock sensing is pretty sensitive stuff. I think the JB weld would mute all the sound coming through the block. I would leave the second knock sensor either unplugged or plugged in and tucked away. The last thing you want is for it to be picking up on some sound that it mistakes for knock. Then it will pull timing and the engine will be a slug. Valve train noise can sometimes sound like knock to an ecu. Megasquirt guys have been fighting this for a while. I'm not running a knock sensor.





53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Two quick suggestions:
> 
> 1. Get a bolt longer than the original knock sensor bolt to account for two knock sensors and mount them both to the same spot. It should be longer by exactly the depth of the second knock sensor.
> 
> 2. Get a bolt longer than the original distributer block off plate bolt and mount the second one there (down by the starter). This is easier to get to, especially with the engine already installed.


I didn't do that because those bolts need to be torqued more than the paltry 11 ft lbs for the sensor bolt. The JB weld trick worked though and the Passat runs drives great with the tired 1.8:





"Scirocco Content", insofar as the Passat contains a Scirocco engine 

With that heap out of the way, I got the Stepchild finished, with a non-adjusting clutch cable, and a new oil pan:


I was able to loosen the gearbox and slip the alignment bushing into position without removing the drivetrain, which was obviously a relief, and so here we are with a 2.0 16V:

First impression: it feels about 10 hp stronger than the 1.8


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> ... and so here we are with a 2.0 16V:
> 
> First impression: it feels about 10 hp stronger than the 1.8


But you're happy..._right???_
And that's all that matters.

Congratulations...I'm happy for you.
Just in time for your birthday, too. You can celebrate tomorrow by driving around town. And take me out to lunch. And dinner. Yeah, we should all do a nice din. For that, we can bring the kids.
Heck, my treat. Do ya want me to take you and the kids out for what...steaks....sushi?

Because 50 is special.

And so are you, babe.:heart:


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## LT1M21Vette (Nov 25, 2015)

pchassin said:


> ...
> Just in time for your birthday, too. You can celebrate tomorrow by driving around town. And take me out to lunch. And dinner. Yeah, we should all do a nice din. For that, we can bring the kids.
> Heck, my treat. Do ya want me to take you and the kids out for what...steaks....sushi?
> 
> ...


Joyeux anniversaire! :thumbup::beer::wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

pchassin said:


> But you're happy..._right???_
> And that's all that matters.
> 
> Congratulations...I'm happy for you.
> ...


Danke schoen :heart:



LT1M21Vette said:


> Joyeux anniversaire! :thumbup::beer::wave:


Merci!


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Happy b day!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The 9A that I installed last winter has been great sans 235 lbs and at this point, it's time to take this car to the next level, maybe even rename it something more dignified. BWAHAHA! Just kidding! It's still a Mk2 no matter how much I work on it . 

I'm actually just joking, the car actually looks pretty nice as-is and we love it:


The acrylic enamel is, as Jim predicted, badly burned from being in outside full-time for 4 years:

Repeated buffing and waxing is a PIA, hasn't slowed the damage, and the paint is now too thin in some areas. I plan to respray it in the Spring with urethane. I'll marker coat and block the car twice like I did on P's car to get that same super flat look.

While I have the shell bare again, I can address some areas that need improvement:
1) The 2nd wiper hole, the rear washer, and the antenna will be welded shut.
2) The 9A is tuned perfectly now and idles fine even cold without the ISV, so that wiring will be properly deleted from the harness.
3) The left rear wheel still locks up first, so I'll redo the braking system from scratch again, maybe new prop valves and G60 MC.
4) The fuel return line needs to be replaced, easier done with the shell stripped and on its side (I have a rubber hose spliced over a leak).
5) The window scrapers have also suffered from the weather and I'll either coat them with windshield urethane or get new ones from VR.
6) The speedo cable goes clickety-click sometimes and hopefully will be OK with a good greasing.
7) The valve cover gasket is leaking (I didn't replace it after doing the head gasket)
8) A pounding rain will wet the driver footwell. I hope an error will present itself when I have the windshield and the HVAC out.
9) Some niggly things: the HVAC vacuum switch is inop, the rear seat has a sun-damaged piece of side cloth (that black burlap stuff), the wing needs a good sanding to even the texture, the underpinnings could use blasting/primer/paint, and the wheels are starting to show their age from being outside on the Cabby all these years.

First things first, a new tiptissery, this time way overkill, since the wood one and my first steel one were both kinda ricketty:



As you can see, this one's like an Erector Set, so I can reverse it, adjust tipping points, etc... easily. I have to pick up the rest of the steel from Grainger on Wednesday after work.

For now, over and out :wave:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Your garage looks crowded.

Marlene can come stay with me, that'll give you more room.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Eistreiber said:


> Your garage looks crowded.
> 
> Marlene can come stay with me, that'll give you more room.


F**cking h*ll, this guy. ^^ 

Always with the offers of careful adoption when you know it's just a plan of abduction with a layer of badly sprayed acrylic enamel on top.

:laugh:

:laugh:

:laugh:

(How many times do you get to insult two Vortexers in single sentence?!? I mean, other than the Mk4 forums...)


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Joe I luv you and stuff (yes, even the hat), but don't go messing with my mojo. Hell, maybe someday it'll work. :laugh:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


>


As an aside...
Quite the rectilinear distortion ya got there, E.
Look like you either jumped feet-first into an empty swimming pool, or this is a reflection from a fun house mirror you just installed.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> As an aside...
> Quite the rectilinear distortion ya got there, E.
> Look like you either jumped feet-first into an empty swimming pool, or this is a reflection from a fun house mirror you just installed, *or Petra is taking the pic*.


FTFY



scirocco*joe said:


> Always with the offers of careful adoption when you know it's just a plan of abduction with a layer of badly sprayed acrylic enamel on top.


I infer a reference to Marlene (adoption request) , and to the Stepchild (acrylic enamel), but grammatically I can't put it all together. I _will_ say:

1) I didn't apply the paint badly, I applied bad paint, and I need to apply new paint...badly 

2) Karl already has numerous Sciroccos to watch after (or so I hear, I've never actually seen one :sly: *AHEM KARL!*). IMO the _last _thing he needs is to be responsible for a high-maintenance Princess. He might be happy at first, but I predict he'd sour as soon as he realizes how much effort is required.

The rest of the tubing will arrive tomorrow so I can finish the tiptissery. Euro bumpers come off easily so maybe I'll even test fit the rig (but not tip a fully assemble car obviously)


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> ... it's time to take this car to the next level, maybe even rename it something more dignified. BWAHAHA! Just kidding! It's still a Mk2 no matter how much I work on it .
> 
> 
> The acrylic enamel is, as Jim predicted, badly burned from being in outside full-time for 4 years:
> ...


We were calling the Stepchild "Ginger" for a while, as a sort of nickname.
I dunno, maybe we could rename it "Blanche"??

This will be the third time that any painting has taken place in our garage, maybe this will be the year that the floor finally gets an even shade of pink instead of its usual intermittent blotches of Tornado Red that we presently have. All jokes aside, E found some cheap floor covering, so that problem is solved.
In all seriousness, much learning takes place after each effort. This should be an interesting process.
The best I will be able to offer is some cheerleading and maybe some food thrown E's way....the amount of blocksanding and buffing required for Bob was intimidating.
Oh, and, yes, I'll try to take some pics that _aren't_ distorted.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> 2) Karl already has numerous Sciroccos to watch after (or so I hear, I've never actually seen one :sly: *AHEM KARL!*). IMO the _last _thing he needs is to be responsible for a high-maintenance Princess. He might be happy at first, but I predict he'd sour as soon as he realizes how much effort is required.


I totally agree with E.
Heeeeeyyy, who's this "Princess" he's referring to?


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> I infer a reference to Marlene (adoption request) , and to the Stepchild (acrylic enamel), but grammatically I can't put it all together. I _will_ say:
> 
> 1) I didn't apply the paint badly, I applied bad paint, and I need to apply new paint...badly
> 
> 2) Karl already has numerous Sciroccos to watch after (or so I hear, I've never actually seen one :sly: *AHEM KARL!*). IMO the _last _thing he needs is to be responsible for a high-maintenance Princess. He might be happy at first, but I predict he'd sour as soon as he realizes how much effort is required.


Fair point. And maybe I should've used "poor" to describe the _choice_ of paint instead of the quality of job performed. We all make due with the tools we are given.

:screwy:





However, "poor" would also describe the effort Karl is exerting with regard to adoption of new princesses as well as quality of the caretaking of his existing harem.

And I would be referring to any and all princesses, flesh or metal.

eace:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Having bashed E for language skills, might as well bash you too.



pchassin said:


> We were calling the Stepchild "Ginger" for a while, as a sort of nickname.
> I dunno, maybe we could rename it "Blanche"??


"Blanch*ed*", *past* tense. Jeez.


So... how 'bout that tan line? :laugh: Tan or T-red overspray?

[for some reason I am tempted to resurrect the LBD pic, and wasn't there something about footwear?].


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> Heeeeeyyy, who's this "Princess" he's referring to?


Sounds like 'elbow' time.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

This thread has been thoroughly amusing.

Also as a side note, how many Sciroccos have you in your Colorado compound these days?

(Which reminds me that I *still* need to post the pictures of our post-Cincy "Cincy West" in Ft Collins...)


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

scirocco*joe said:


> This thread has been thoroughly amusing.
> 
> Also as a side note, how many Sciroccos have you in your Colorado compound these days?
> 
> (Which reminds me that I *still* need to post the pictures of our post-Cincy "Cincy West" in Ft Collins...)


1] Always has been, sometimes someody need to elbow somebody else in the "ow! foocking christos!" .... ribs.

2] Too many. Need to sell, need good homes. They're pound puppies, not parts cars.

3] Yep, but hell it was just coffee. No big deal. IIRC you didn't even have your hat.

:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, I finished the new tiptissery this morning:

It's a heck of a lot stronger than the wood one I used when I first did the car. I haven't tested this one but it's dimensionally the same as the wood one and it's easily adjustable, so hopefully no fitment issues.

I did need to cut and reweld the bumper brackets because the bumpers have a curve to them and these steel tubes are straight, but that way I won't need to fiddle with shims.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Interesting tip-tisserie build. You will have to share your methodology and source of parts!

But my bigger question is how to "tip" it slowly without the curve as on the original wooden rig?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I got the tubing at Grainger for $400, and the nuts/bolts at Home Depot for $50, which did make me wonder if I shoulda just bought two engine stands 

I hope it will tip _better_ without the "curves" because with the curves, the initial tip with the wooden tip-tissery required a strong lift. I'm hoping with this rig that the car "falls" [gently} after an lighter initial lift. My plan is to adjust the effort required for the initial lift by adjusting the triangulation bar on the tip-side leg, to move the "foot" back and forth as needed.

Dissassembly begins tomorrow, so we'll find out soon enough . You do mention a good point and I should add wood "curves" if it makes things safer.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> You do mention a good point and I should add wood "curves" if it makes things safer.


I think I would add some curves too, unless you have another means by which to "let 'er down gently".
Would hate to see the thing just let loose on you.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We'll see and tweak for sure as needed.

Anyhoo, here we go again:







This time around things are much easier because everything's coming off the car easily and just needs to be cleaned and touched up. Plus there's not much left after everything I deleted .


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Geez! That was fast. It shows you've done this many times. Will you remove the glass yourself?

-Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

20v_boost said:


> Will you remove the glass yourself?


Yes, and I think the windshield will be easier this time because I didn't install those steel strips with the zillion claws on them that the seal has to wrangle over.

I'm gonna go back at it, I just needed a rest (I played this nice reproduction of "Asteroids" )


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

More stuff stripped off the shell today.

Rear stuff:


Front and side stuff:


Top stuff:


We had some videos of us removing the windshield, for your viewing amusement, especially since I broke the glass . Petra made us delete them because she was on her back pushing up with her feet and her posture was, um, er... less than flattering.

I'm ashamed about breaking the glass because it was OEM and _any_ S2 windshield is not to be wasted, but it did have a lot of chips and frosting. I have one much nicer windshield left, and I promise I'll be super _duper_ careful putting in it (I'm usually only super careful)


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

It was crystal clear that you broke the glass the way you did.

Next time you do better with the same method that I use.  And nobody hast to do yoga for it. 

If you do so thex will come out so easy with no breaking.  Works on every scirocco glass. 









Good luck next time. :beer:

By the way...keep on the good work. I have fun reading your threads and watching the pics. :thumbup:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> More stuff stripped off the shell today.


Wait, I must have missed something... 
Now, why are you stripping this car down again?
Are you still looking for errant wads of paper towel?? 



echassin said:


> I have one much nicer windshield left, and I promise I'll be super _duper_ careful putting in it (I'm usually only super careful)



I think my last surgeon was only super careful.
I didn't know there was an upgrade. Cat's outta the bag now.
Next pre-op consultation I have, the doc had better tell me he's _always_ super-duper careful, or we're finished. Done. Sayonara, Hombre!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> I think my last surgeon was only super careful.
> I didn't know there was an upgrade. Cat's outta the bag now.
> Next pre-op consultation I have, the doc had better tell me he's _always_ super-duper careful, or we're finished. Done. Sayonara, Hombre!


They're always gonna _tell_ you that they're super duper careful, or that they've done the procedure thousands of times, etc... You gotta ask somebody _else_ whether that's true .

Today's progress amounts to getting the suspension off and the tiptissery installed.

First I drained the brake system:

I usually just open the lines into pans but this time I used my pressurizing doodad to push the fluid back into a bottle through the bleeders. The calipers still have fluid in them but I'll retrieve that later.

Suspension off and tiptissery on:




Next is exhaust/heat shield/shifter and fuel tank/pump/accumulator


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## Dopelganger (Sep 10, 2016)

I remember when you got this red headed step child.
Why you punk me?


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

The great thing about Brits (almost makes up for British Leyland & Duran Duran. Almost. They still got a lot of work to do to make up for The Spice Girls, and don't they still owe us $ from WWII lend-lease?) is that they use the same language as us, and sometimes better.



Dopelganger said:


> Why you punk me?


[ ahem, clear throat and have a sip of tea, hum a bar or two of _Rule Britannia_ ] Just whut the bloody hell are you talking about?

My guess at the answer to your query is that *if* you got punked, it was self-inflicted. Twould be... unsurprising.


E, on the glass... saw a guy use a ge-bootload of wooden tongue depressors as in pic above; popped out hatch glass from a Mk1 in about 5 minutes. Has to be safer (more spread out stress) than bunches of screwdrivers, they'll break before the glass does and won't scratch or gouge the glass. Maybe try that next time?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't have that many screwdrivers anyways, but the popsicle stick idea is a great one.

The side and hatch glass glass I just push out, they're much stronger. The laminated windshield is the troublesome one, IMO.

IIRC when I lived in France the windshields were the same as the rest of the glass, but maybe that was because of the vintage of the cars, not the geography? I think not being belted demanded a windshield that would yield but keep you in the car.

I have to go to real work but I'll resume later :wave:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

We usually use rope. Not just for installing but removing as well.
Next to that I'd go for the tongue depressors or popsicle sticks.
You don't want to scratch/chip the glass, or the paint on the window channel, or gouge the seal.


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## ydrogs (Aug 6, 2005)

I would have just sacrificed the seal and bought a new one. Cheaper and easier to find than a replacement windshield


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> IIRC when I lived in France the windshields were the same as the rest of the glass, but maybe that was because of the vintage of the cars, not the geography? I think not being belted demanded a windshield that would yield but keep you in the car.


It's because of geography same as with the steel bars in the doors or the park bench bumpers. It's a safety thing that's not necessarily required overseas. 

-Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ydrogs said:


> I would have just sacrificed the seal and bought a new one. Cheaper and easier to find than a replacement windshield


:facepalm: I have a perfect extra seal, this would've been the easiest thing to do 

I use arope tp get the glass in, but how does the rope get the glass out? You still have to push on the glass, no?


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## Gromel (May 12, 2012)

that is crazy with those 170000 screwdrivers, the glass just pops out. Just peel the seal lip back and squirt in a generous amount of soap water solution than do this







Also i used something similar to this,very carefully to remove the windshield from my 84 GTI and did not break the glass:
https://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-879...d=1473797639&sr=8-2&keywords=windshield+knife

This is what you want to treat your pinchwelds, and very important if you urethane set your windshield to not paint the pinchweld with anything other than this (the windshield should be glued to metal, not a layer of paint) https://www.amazon.com/3M-08682-Sin...&ie=UTF8&qid=1473797789&sr=1-1&keywords=08681


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't have that suction tool but that was funny to watch .

Anyhoo, a little lunch, some time to digest, and back at it. With the rear beam and the K-bar off the car, the entire exhaust comes off whole, along with the heat shield:

This is nice because when you get a 2.25" exhaust adjusted so it never touches anywhere, you wanna keep things as they are without moving them even a millimeter.

And with the exhaust off, the tank can come out:


Along with the filler pipe:

The large hose that connect the filler pipe to the tank is juuuuust starting to dry-rot, so another is on order from a boating supply place for $25. I also ordered a valve cover gasket set and a new MC (here we go again with the shopping ).

I'd like to replace the proportioning valves to try and throw any money I can at that one rear wheel locking up, but the usual places don't list 'em. Anyone? If not, I'll just switch them side-to-side to see if the other wheel locks up, which would help properly diagnose.

Next is to clear the engine bay, but I gotta work tomorrow and Thursday (I know. WTF?). We'll see if I have some time left over to work on the car.

Bye.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> I use a rope tp get the glass in, but how does the rope get the glass out? You still have to push on the glass, no?


Yes. But you'd like to eliminate how hard you have to push, and therefore the stress you're putting on the glass, right?
The thing you're fighting against mostly is the inside lip of the seal of course. Unless you have lots of extra fingers (your own, or those of helpers), you have a hard time getting enough of it started.
So you stuff/wedge the rope all along the inside of the seal to push the lip away from the frame, and tie or clamp it off.
Same goal as the screwdrivers or popsicle sticks, but you have a limited number of those whereas the rope is continuous.
Different (thicker) rope than what you used to install the glass with.

None of these tricks mentioned are going to work on an old gasket that's dried up and hard of course. Don't even bother with a ~30 yo gasket.
In that case cutting the gasket like Gordy said is easiest/safest/only option.



Gromel said:


> Also i used something similar to this,very carefully to remove the windshield from my 84 GTI and did not break the glass:
> https://www.amazon.com/Tool-Aid-8790...ndshield+knife


An 84 GTI has a bonded windshield with surround as opposed to Sciroccos which have the classic full gasket.
[US production went to bonded in '83; German production kept the gaskets]
You wouldn't use a tool like this on gasketed glass. Just don't want to confuse anyone reading.

I have one of these tools (and, coincidentally, have also used it to remove an 84 GTI windshield.)
As delivered, the blades suck however. My buddy who was a glass installer gave me better ones for it that he used with his professional tool. They were longer/thinner and slipped under the glass more easily.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thick rope to keep the seal elevated from the lip makes sense, and might reaffirm that the dash needs to come out to remove the windshield more reliably, and maybe have the dash out until the windshield is back in, too.

Anyhoo, good progress in spite of having to actually do real work all week.

I took the engine out in one chunk with the gearbox and accessories, after just clearing a space in front of it:

Because the drivetrain is whole, I can't get it into the basement, so I just lowered it onto a padded wheel dolly and will leave it in a corner of the garage, to be wheeled outside with everything else during painting.

With the shell as bare as it needs to be, I tightened up the tiptissery:

They're not in this pic, but the shell swayed backwards and forwards during even light stress, so I added triangulation bars from the legs to the bumper mounts.

With that done, Petra and I tipped the car:

The car sits comfortably at 45 degrees, which is a pleasant surprise and means I can do the sides of the car while standing.

You can see Petra really enjoys the fun things I find to entertain her and keep our relationship fresh... All jokes aside, I had a bunch of levels worked on in my neck last year, and I feel great, but there must have been enough residual problems that can't tip an S2 by myself like I could 4 short years ago. An unwelcome sign of the slow inevitable decline that eventually claims us all .

But hopefully that's a long ways away, and for now, the car is on it's side and up against the wall to maximize work space:

I still have to remove the front body kit bits, the fender liners, and the fuel/brake lines, but I'm leaving the fenders since they seem do be fine.

Which brings up another interesting point: It's easy to keep a restored car inside all the time, never get it wet, etc... and have it look great. One of the neat things about this project is I get to see how things hold up against 4 years of outside storage and snow/salt driving. The paint got ruined, but the shell held up great. I attribute that to the sandblaster, the welder, the 3M seal sealer (I used a whole quart can :what, the Cosmoline, and re-engineering the wheel arches to eliminate overlapping layers of steel. There are few tiny areas where I hit the paint during the previous re-assembly, but overall it's all :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> Thick rope to keep the seal elevated from the lip makes sense, and might reaffirm that the dash needs to come out to remove the windshield more reliably, and maybe have the dash out until the windshield is back in, too.


Or just do the top and sides first. Once they're free the bottom lifts right out.
Reinstalling would be easier with the dash out, yes, but isn't absolutely required.



echassin said:


> Anyhoo, good progress in spite of having to actually do real work all week.


Sometimes I wonder if you do any real work at all. :laugh:
Don't mind me, I'm just jealous of your rate of progress and the relative lack of my own. 



echassin said:


> ...I attribute that to the sandblaster, the welder, the 3M seal sealer (I used a whole quart can :what, the Cosmoline, and re-engineering the wheel arches to eliminate overlapping layers of steel. There are few tiny areas where I hit the paint during the previous re-assembly, but overall it's all :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:.


From one to another...
Being an Anal E pays off doesn't it. :thumbup:


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

echassin said:


> Which brings up another interesting point: It's easy to keep a restored car inside all the time, never get it wet, etc... and have it look great. One of the neat things about this project is I get to see how things hold up against 4 years of outside storage and snow/salt driving. The paint got ruined, but the shell held up great. I attribute that to the sandblaster, the welder, the 3M seal sealer (I used a whole quart can :what, the Cosmoline, and re-engineering the wheel arches to eliminate overlapping layers of steel. There are few tiny areas where I hit the paint during the previous re-assembly, but overall it's all :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:.



Great stuff! :thumbup::thumbup:

What's that whiteish goop on the passenger side floorpan?

Also, did you notice if the shell flexes any noticeable amount when you have it tipped? Just curious. I know the MK1 isn't really the stiffest chassis out there but it's not floppy like an old Corvette either.

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The white splash behind the front wheel well is dried mud from a minor off road excursion o) that also scraped up the inside edge of the front rim, and damaged/bent the fuel hard line a bit further back (visible in the photo if you look close).

He's my stepchild, so I beat him often .

The new filler pipe arrived, so that's one less thing to hunt down :thumbup:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

^^^Hmmm....wasn't there some sort of post somewhere?.....

I'm thinking, I'm thinking......

Something about Man+Car vs. Cornfield?


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> I don't have that many screwdrivers anyways...


Lawdy lawdy lawdy... does the phrase "self-inflicted wound" mean anything to you?

This is why baby harp seals get clubbed. What else is there to do, but to tee up with a 9-iron and aim for the green.


I could make some rude joke about running out of screwdrivers (given E's advanced age) but I'm more polite than that.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Karl, don't forget to take your medicine 

Today I got the rest of the body kit and the hard lines off the shell, then P. and I got the shell outside to start cleaning it.

Luke got some evening video of my first attempts at flipping the car myself (note Petra realizing what I'm doing and running out, worried I'll snap a femur or end up cut in two :heart:




It's not too hard once you get the hang of where to stand, where to hold, etc...

Tomorrow more cleaning and start inventorying needed repairs, holes to be welded shut, etc...


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Nice video there fella. :thumbup:
I bet they were even real crickets, not dubbed in post'. 



echassin said:


> It's not too hard once you get the hang of where to stand, where to hold, etc...


:facepalm: I mean... this is like taking candy from a baby for Karl... tie a bow on it, why don't you...


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Karl, don't forget to take your medicine.


For what? I'm pure-D bi-polar (OK Thule is only 76 degs N, but I got S Pole nailed & certified, N Pole next I get up that way).

Fix a fact. G/L and stuff. There's no medicine for Ice. Just lots of socks.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> tie a bow on it, why don't you...


In Petra's thread we had her all dolled up when we installed the rack and the rear end, as an easy setup for Karl, so yeah, we take good care of him :heart:.

Today I washed my car, bucket, soap, and sponge, just like any other regular American guy would do on a Sunday morning, except not :screwy::

I only used gasoline to get the Cosmoline off where I had it on fasteners and such.

The major setback so far is that some of the seam sealer has remained gooey for 5 years, suggesting a chemical error on my part (it's the gray stuff in the picture):

It's where the seam sealer is over the Schutz, so word to the wise: 3M seam sealer and Schutz do not appear to be friends. I used cheaper stuff on Petra's car and was relieved to find that it's only the 3M stuff that reacts .

As for rust, there's mainly surface stuff here and there where I hit or cracked the paint. Just tedious. The pinch welds were originally crushed on all four corners and while three of my repairs have held up perfectly, the passenger front corner rotted out:

I'll cut out anything bad and weld in new steel there.

The bay held up nicely:



I'll delete the power steering and overflow tank brackets, and the emissions hose holes in the fender wells, but other than that, the bay's good to go :thumbup:\

Next is removal of all the gooey seam sealer . Not sure how I'm gonna do that, probably gasoline and wire brushes, which will be a super fun mess...


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

DiezNutz said:


> ... this is like taking candy from a baby for Karl... tie a bow on it, why don't you...





echassin said:


> In Petra's thread we had her all dolled up when we installed the rack and the rear end, as an easy setup for Karl, so yeah, we take good care of him :heart:


Yeah you do. Been meaning to ask if I can get the LBD pic in photo quality (poster size). :heart: back atcha both. E I just renewed my driver's license, signed up for 'organ & tissue donor' but no rush, OK? Heh.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

I'm glad to see that I am not the only fool using power tools and flipping cars in bare feet. :laugh:

Keep up the, uhhh, above average work. :thumbup:



:laugh:

(Just kidding, you know you are killing it!)


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> It's not too hard once you get the hang of where to stand, where to hold, etc...





DiezNutz said:


> ... this is like taking candy from a baby for Karl...


Hey, what? I left it for you!


E does (at least) two things well:

1] provides un- ignorable straight lines, and

2] does really phenomenally great, detailed, meticulous automotive restores.


I can't compete in the latter arena, so I launch at all the straight lines he provides. Which are plentiful. 

Usual great work on the car, E... I betcha'll find another 25- 30 lbs to take off while you're there anyway (keep the parking brake, we've had this discussion).

:thumbup:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

scirocco*joe said:


> ...and flipping cars in bare feet.


If you have to wear steel-toed boots you shoulda thought the procedure all the way through, twice; better and step by step before you began. Considering the protection and ongoing connection of your favorite body parts keeps you on your toes, if you'll pardon the pun (like you have a choice).

About the only safety gear I use is glasses, and that only when using sprays or compressed air. All other risks are easily avoidable, IMO.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

So tomorrow I have the day off and I'm hoping to get the sandblasting done to remove any surface rust, but first the rotten pinch weld section had to go:



The missing vertical section had a doubler in it to support the car when jacked there, but the it didn't extend onto the pinch weld, so it served only to trap water :screwy:. The repair will consist of three pieces: a vertical patch out of 1/8" steel that will tolerate jacking in case anyone does that (I don't), a small strip to close the floor, and another to close the rocker. The welds will be at 90 degrees so there is no overlapping steel to trap moisture, and I'll make sure it drains like original, fill the repair with Cosmoline, etc...

Hopefully do that on Thursday along with deleting unwanted holes.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

E just now said, "What I really need is a giant vat of acid."


Not the sort of thing ya wanna hear while sipping that first cup of coffee.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eistreiber said:


> If you have to wear steel-toed boots you shoulda thought the procedure all the way through, twice; better and step by step before you began. Considering the protection and ongoing connection of your favorite body parts keeps you on your toes, if you'll pardon the pun (like you have a choice).
> 
> About the only safety gear I use is glasses, and that only when using sprays or compressed air. All other risks are easily avoidable, IMO.


Try saying that to an OSHA inspector at work when they catch you not using safety equipment.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

pchassin said:


> E just now said, "What I really need is a giant vat of acid."


Try saying _that_ to an OSHA inspector. 
-Old Eric


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Try saying that to an OSHA inspector at work when they catch you not using safety equipment.


I've literally had a OSHA- literate safety Nazi be chewing me for not being in steel-toes eight feet away from an open, live electrical fusebox with wires draped all over it, and hot 240v in some of them. Which wires? I dunno, say to someone else "here hold this and then touch there" is an effective test method, yet for some reason frowned upon.

It's one of the basic Rules of Life, albeit down around the 40's or so; well after #37- If you plan to eat something with almost as many legs and appendages as you have fingers (shrimp, lobster, crab for example) make sure the damn thing's *dead* before you put it in your mouth.

So, RoL #40- something or so; if somebody walks up to you and says, "Here, hold this wire", well DON'T.

It's the same basic concept as the next RoL #41- something or so; if somebody walks up to you and says, "Here, sniff this", well DON'T.

I'm not an opponent of OSHA, but no fan. One size (of regulations) does not fit all fit all sizes (of conditions). And some of the stupidest most dangerous and poorly thought-out industrial acts I've seen were "OK" by OSHA regs.

:screwy:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> E just now said, "What I really need is a giant vat of acid."





53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Try saying _that_ to an OSHA inspector.


No problem, say it and then do that perfectly almost but possibly not quite completely certifiable Donald Sutherland grin from his early years. Wave bye-bye at the inspector.

Entertainment is where you find it.


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

This is moving along nicely!


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

ziggirocco said:


> This is moving along nicely!


Well, it's moving along. (I'll meet you halfway) :laugh:

Just kidding. As usual, nice work E! :wave:
You ever consider zinc painting your patch pieces to give them some additional protection after everything's buttoned up? 
They're typically considered 'weld-through' coatings. Rustoleum Cold Galvanizing Compound seems to work as well as any of the hobbyist varieties, and it's at your local home improvement store.
I like to do that for any blind inside panel that I won't be able to get to later, such as what you're working on here.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

DiezNutz said:


> Well, it's moving along.
> 
> You ever consider zinc painting your patch pieces to give them some additional protection after everything's buttoned up?


That actually gives me an idea, it's really a long shot but maybe worth a bit of looking into.

Some small boats use zinc as a disposable, sacrificial metal; oxidation happens there first, you changes the zincs every so often and don't rust your propellers.

I don't know from boats (yo, I live in CO) but... hmm. You can't do much about salt on the roads, but age related rust maybe; re-direct to something that you can easily replace? Go hang out at a boatyard for an afternoon, pretend to like beer. Look into it.

:beer:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Eistreiber said:


> E does (at least) two things well:
> 1] provides un- ignorable straight lines, and


That he does, that he does. 
I had thought he innocently toddled into them... but perhaps he's a bit more crafty than he is unlucky. 
Either way he makes a good setter.



Eistreiber said:


> Entertainment is where you find it.


Don't we know it.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

DiezNutz said:


> I had thought he innocently toddled into them... but perhaps he's a bit more crafty than he is unlucky.
> Either way he makes an awesome setter.


FTFY. Perfect line-up and no blame ("who... moi?").

Anything with "awesome", "dead hooker in the trunk", or "blah-blah-blahing" has been established as fair game, others as found. It is well to keep in mind that 1) E is a surgeon, and thus 2) is licensed to cut people in IL, elsewhere under certain conditions, and 3) lives in Chicago, but willing to travel.

Some tact is advisable. Not saying it works for me.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Eistreiber said:


> That actually gives me an idea, it's really a long shot but maybe worth a bit of looking into.
> 
> Some small boats use zinc as a disposable, sacrificial metal; oxidation happens there first, you changes the zincs every so often and don't rust your propellers.
> 
> ...


Not a long shot. Same idea as VW used for the zinc pads at the fender mounting points:
http://www.mk1autohaus.com/Fender-Installation-Kit-1_p_6456.html

Porsche took it a step further and started using all-galvanized body panels in the late 70s. You almost never see a rusty 80s Porsche.
I don't think VW got really serious about galvanizing bodies until the Mk4s.

The key is 'sacrificial', in that the zinc is a finite resource. Once it's depleted then the steel is vulnerable, but it buys you a lot of time.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Eistreiber said:


> Some small boats use zinc as a disposable, sacrificial metal; oxidation happens there first, you changes the zincs every so often and don't rust your propellers.
> 
> I don't know from boats (yo, I live in CO) but... hmm. You can't do much about salt on the roads, but age related rust maybe; re-direct to something that you can easily replace? Go hang out at a boatyard for an afternoon, pretend to like beer. Look into it.


a long shot...



DiezNutz said:


> Not a long shot. Same idea as VW used for the zinc pads at the fender mounting points:
> http://www.mk1autohaus.com/Fender-Installation-Kit-1_p_6456.html
> 
> The key is 'sacrificial', in that the zinc is a finite resource. Once it's depleted then the steel is vulnerable, but it buys you a lot of time.


...made!

well, schitts!

I still think E needs to go hang out at a boatyard for an afternoon, and pretend to like beer.  Or even better, decent Scotch ("dirty socks!").


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Eistreiber said:


> I still think E needs to go hang out at a boatyard for an afternoon, and pretend to like beer.  Or even better, decent Scotch ("dirty socks!").


Uh-oh.
This is on the verge of taking a really awkward turn at E's expense...
Nope. Not gonna.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm only licenced to cut you if you consent to it in writing, so no worries there .

I use weld through primer described, then rust inhibitor primer, then paint, then Cosmoline. I won't say everything I did 5 years ago held up perfectly to being outside 24/7/365 in Chicago, but considering the car spends the winter with those giant ice/salt statues stuck behind the wheels, it held up well. Most of what I'm addressing is from assembly damage, either because I hit the paint, or from snapping plastic bits into fastener holes and damaging the finish.

I spent the day sand blasting any new rust with the shell in the driveway, and when I was done, I moved the shell over and was able to retrieve most of the media:

If you've ever bought sand blasting media, you know what I mean when I say you wanna retrieve what you can .

The work isn't difficult, it's just tedious and messy, like these bits but times 100:




With that done, P. and I moved the shell back inside (not too hard, the tip-tissery has wheels welded to it):

Tomorrow after work is grinding the edges of all holes to be welded shut, and cutting off any unwanted brackets. Thursday is welding, Friday seam sealing, Saturday bottom paint, Sunday engine bay touchups.

Or something like that.

I did ask P. if the car turns out really really nice, how many marriage points it would cost to get the last garage spot...


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> FTFY. Perfect line-up and no blame ("who... moi?").
> 
> Anything with "awesome", "dead hooker in the trunk", or "blah-blah-blahing" has been established as fair game, others as found. It is well to keep in mind that 1) E is a surgeon, and thus 2) is licensed to cut people in IL, elsewhere under certain conditions, and 3) lives in Chicago, but willing to travel.
> 
> Some tact is advisable. Not saying it works for me.


Meh. He really doesn't like to travel.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

DiezNutz said:


> This is on the verge of taking a really awkward turn at E's expense.


Is not *at all* what I meant (well some expense but hell $12 + shipping per fender side?).

I wasn't even aware that VW (or anyone else) had been doing this. I just... read a lot, some a while back small boats and sacrificial zinc stuck in my brain (which is... um... spongy. Go ahead, ya damn vultures!).

I think it's worth checking out at least.



echassin said:


> I'm only licensed to cut you if you consent to it in writing, so no worries there.


Oh, like *that's* reassuring. The average 5-year old could forge my signature with a sharpened crayon, and you've seen it.



echassin said:


> ...I moved the shell over and was able to retrieve most of the media.


I've been wondering where those useless lazy bastids have been... oh wait, you meant... oh, OK. Nevermind.



echassin said:


> I did ask P. if the car turns out really really nice, how many marriage points it would cost to get the last garage spot...


E... it's a proverb, OK? If you have to ask the price, etc.



pchassin said:


> Meh. He really doesn't like to travel.


Yeah but still... Chicago. CHICAGO! I keep thinking of the cover art from Alice Cooper's Greatest Hits.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I think the S1 fenders have little zinc pads where the screws go through, fat lotta good that did . Like other E said, the steel will always succumb eventually.

Today we had to work and restock the Family Pantry, but I did take time to cut off any unused brackets and hose clips/strips. The least photographically uninteresting were the overflow, horn, and power steering brackets:





Interestingly, the horn bracket was 1/8" thick steel and was welded to the shell with three bonafide MIG welds, and therefore appears to have been the strongest part of the car :sly:


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## twardnw (Sep 25, 2006)

yeah, the sacrificial zinc works in marine applications due to electrolysis/dissimilar metals, kinda need liquid for that to be effective...


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

twardnw said:


> yeah, the sacrificial zinc works in marine applications due to electrolysis/dissimilar metals, kinda need liquid for that to be effective...


You mean like... rain, snow, slush, garden hose...? 
There's a subtle difference because the boat is constantly 'grounded' in water whereas the car body is not, but the galvanic effect is the same.
Saltwater and road salt work the same way through electrolysis to deplete the zinc faster than normal.
Sacrificial anodes on boats in marine environments get replaced more frequently than the zinc on a car body does (which is often never).

Hey E, there's really no better time than right now to relocate your battery and shave the tray, if that's something you'd ever considered.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

This thread is starting to remind me of the Workshop section of the Classic Jaguar website. 

http://classicjaguar.com/

-Old Eric

EDIT: Perhaps I should explain - when they reconstruct the bodies they use body wax inside the cavities to prevent rust. The Jags were not rustproofed at all by the factory.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I was thinking about putting the battery in the trunk, not for weight balance but to get rid of rust quicker.

But the tray is 30 years old this year and came out great after blasting, so I left it. I'm sure there's rust in the seams, but even the bottom of the tray looks clean.

I think I'll put felt strips on it to keep the battery from eroding the new paint and Cosmoline.

Today I'm grinding all the edges for welding. At some point I also need to scuff every bit to hold the new paint... It worked great last time, but ugh .


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> This thread is starting to remind me of the Workshop section of the Classic Jaguar website.
> 
> http://classicjaguar.com/
> 
> ...


I have thick Cosmoline but it'd be great to have that really thick wax too.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

This morning, I innocently leaned over E's shoulder to see what he was reading on his Ipad.

He was searching... "cavity wax"...

Hmmm...

Not the sort of thing a girl wants think about while sipping that first cup of coffee.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eistreiber said:


> I've literally had a OSHA- literate safety Nazi be chewing me for not being in steel-toes eight feet away from an open, live electrical fusebox with wires draped all over it, and hot 240v in some of them. Which wires? I dunno, say to someone else "here hold this and then touch there" is an effective test method, yet for some reason frowned upon.
> 
> It's one of the basic Rules of Life, albeit down around the 40's or so; well after #37- If you plan to eat something with almost as many legs and appendages as you have fingers (shrimp, lobster, crab for example) make sure the damn thing's *dead* before you put it in your mouth.
> 
> ...


Yeah, we had "OSHA Trained" safety inspectors at my former place of employment and I got in trouble a few times. They made us strap into harnesses if we were over 4' from the ground. (Industrial safety standards were to strap in over 6'.) 

We even had devices like engine cherry pickers that we had to push into position and harness up to if we were outside. We had overhead straps inside the shop and had to maneuver the systems so they were centered under the straps. Before we got the giant cherry pickers, we had to strap up to the anchor points on the systems at the point farthest away from the side you were working on (like the right side if you were on the left side). That way, you theoretically couldn't fall off the left side because the strap wouldn't allow you. Unfortunately, everybody kept tripping on the straps and it ended up being less safe. It's a miracle nobody got injured trying to be "safe".

One inspector wanted to fire one of the young guys who just scooted up on a system during a tear down. The bosses sent the young guy away for a while out of sight of the safety inspectors. 

On the subject of electrical work, didn't you guys have "Lockout Tagout" standards? 

Safety boots messed up my feet so I am definitely not a fan. I have dropped heavy objects on my unprotected feet and they were none the worse, but I have bunions because of safety boots. I also have plantar fasciitis symptoms when I wear safety footwear on concrete. 

I'll return you to your regularly scheduled thread now...


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> I have thick Cosmoline but it'd be great to have that really thick wax too.



My '88 still has factory Cosmoline in the engine compartment and in the door jambs. Do you use gasoline to clean it off?

I haven't tried everything, but have tried to clean it with mild cleaners (didn't want to strip the paint to get it off).

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> I have thick Cosmoline but it'd be great to have that really thick wax too.


Also, there are products like POR15 that didn't exist when Sciroccos roamed the earth. (At least in our realm.)


I saw a commercial recently for a product called _Sharkhide_ that has the viscosity of water and can seep into seams and hidden areas.

They were saying you can wipe it on raw or new aluminum to keep it looking new.

It seems that you have to wipe it off with lacquer thinner before painting though. 

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The Cosmoline I have is about the thickness of thick gear oil, but it apparently has a surfactant in it because it will spread evenly even if applied unevenly, even better in a seam where it's gooeyness might be thought a liability

This stuff and the OEM "Cosmoline", and the thick cavity wax come off with gas without much scrubbing, so the paint should be fine. If vigorous scrubbing is required with a toothbrush, like over rough "Schutz" coating, do expect paint loss.

I haven't done isht today, I'm just chillin'


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> This morning... he was searching... "cavity wax"...
> 
> Not the sort of thing a girl wants think about while sipping that first cup of coffee.


Depends on the girl. Tell her I'm free for dinner next Friday.


P you should know better by now than to gift me a straight line like that. Too easy. Maybe the wax girl will be too. :laugh:


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## PA Rocco (Jul 19, 2015)

We use Rust Veto 342, a Cosmoline equivalent, by the 55 gallon drum at work. Until recently, we used a hot water & soap in our parts washer - basically a big steamer - to remove the stuff, which we have to do on an industrial scale, but there was always a load of manual scrubbing to clean the parts completely. Lately we've been trying a non-toxic demulsifier called "Super3way OS" (can't wait to see the comments on that one) in the parts washer. So far it has been working pretty well without the need for scrubbing afterward.

One of those hand-held steamers they sell on infomercials may just do the trick if you wipe the area clean before it cools. A demulsifier added to the water would be even better...


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

pchassin said:


> This morning, I innocently leaned over E's shoulder to see what he was reading on his Ipad.
> He was searching... "cavity wax"...
> Hmmm...
> Not the sort of thing a girl wants think about while sipping that first cup of coffee.


Coffee nearly came out my nose when I read this this morning... 



PA Rocco said:


> "Super3way OS" (can't wait to see the comments on that one)...


:laugh: Seems the element of surprise is getting harder to come by with this bunch, eh.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> But the tray is 30 years old this year and came out great after blasting, so I left it. I'm sure there's rust in the seams, but even the bottom of the tray looks clean.


Yes now that you mention it, that tray is in excellent shape. I'm with ya.

On another note... gasoline isn't the safest thing you could be using, both from a health hazard and combustibility standpoint.
Mineral spirits would take care of most of this, and lacquer thinner for the really stubborn bits.
If you're determined to use a fossil fuel, how about kerosene at least. 
A lot of VOC solvents are more closely related to kero than anything else.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm not saying gasoline is a good solvent to use, I'm just saying that I use gasoline . I have lots of it in cans for the mowers and stuff, so when I need a solvent real quick-like, I just pour out a little gasoline, knowhadImeen?.

I did have a friend of mine yelp when he saw me using the heat gun alternating with the gasoline once 

Today I got a lot done on the car in the form of welding, a lot more fun than last time since most of it is to make the car look nicer, whereas last time most of it was to keep the car from disintegrating.

First the extra wiper hole delete:





I already ground down the welds and it's ready for filler, but for once I thought I'd show my welds _before_ dressing them up. When you weld like me, you need lots of seam sealer, some Bondo, and a good grinder... which reminds me, my 14 month old Dremel aready crapped out, and it replaced the fairly new one before that *cough* madeinchina *cough*.

Anyhoo, next was two more unibody stress cracks, this time the trunk latch:


And after that I did the extra body holes, first the antenna :

I also did the rear washer nozzle.

The power lock for the fuel door:


The door jams:


And finally the bad pinch weld/jacking point:

The vertical piece is a thick slab-o-steel which will support the car in case somebody decides to jack from there.

Underneath:


Fender test-fit:

I also made the little lip along the bottom of the pinch weld so it all looks right.

Tomorrow hopefully delete all the extra holes in the engine bay.

:wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm dead-ended until I get seam sealer and paint for the underside, but I did finish up the welding this morning, in the form of deleting the most obvious extra holes in the engine bay.

The A/C holes, cabin side:


And engine bay side:

As you can see, I use only the finest steel money can buy 

Vacuum storage canister (I'll control cabin airflow with clever vent management, which I know works because the vacuum switch has been inop since initial build :sly:


Charcoal canister (above battery tray, the image is malrotated):


The other emissions thingy in the other wheel well:

Yes, the gas tank/anti-gravity valve vents directly into the intake. When the car is not being used, fumes can escape and kill millions of innocent children. And yes, I know it's not an anti-gravity valve, but I wish it were 

This is how the deletes look from the "unseen" side:


This will all be covered with seam sealer on both sides, then painted.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> I'm not saying gasoline is a good solvent to use, I'm just saying that I use gasoline . I have lots of it in cans for the mowers and stuff, so when I need a solvent real quick-like, I just pour out a little gasoline, knowhadImeen?.
> I did have a friend of mine yelp when he saw me using the heat gun alternating with the gasoline once


Okay. So we're in agreement then. 
Be safe, Doc. You'll understand why I'm fundamentally opposed to any outcome that involves an " Eric Flambé "


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

For solvent I like diesel; fairly cheap, easily available. You can flick a lit cigarette at a pan of it and walk away (better on a cool day). Yep it leaves a bit of residue, but that's when you use sprays; BrakeClean and CarbClean or citrus based, whatever. Diesel is just ... safer than gasoline..

Still waiting for E to realize that in patching, he's adding weight...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Ooof! Long day:

The bottom color matches the original Schutz, and I faked the red overspray to make it look like the painted shell would've looked at the factory before any parts were installed. I did it this way because I might install the tank, pump/hard lines, rear beam, shifter, and the heat shield before doing the rest of the body, and just keep the bottom of the car bagged (taped off).

In order to get the hard line clips right and not need to bend them after seam sealer and paint, I carved a piece of wood to hammer against:

The thing is covered withe seam sealer because I shaped the clips while the seam sealer was still wet, to be sure of full coverage. When I install the rubber grommets, I'll slide them into position without bending the clips, and I'll slather everything with Cosmoline.

The clips after seam sealer but before paint:


The bottom after seam sealer, before paint:


The repaired pinch weld:



The back side of this repair (and the extra wiper hole, door jams, fuel door lock, and rear washer nozzle) will be painted and slathered with Cosmoline.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

This thread is just plain fun to read. Thanks for keeping us all entertained (and educated), E!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> This thread is just plain fun to read. Thanks for keeping us all entertained (and educated), E!


Thanks, I was actually thinking that this time around I'm being kinda dry and boring. _That_ gave me an idea. I mentionned somewhere that P got a new bikini online for our last vacation, and since then the computer has been embedding bikini ads into any web page I look at. It's titilating and Big Brother scary at the same time, but in any case, I've decided that in each update here, I'm gonna post a link to whichever bikini ad is the day's favorite. It's in poor taste, objectifies women, etc..., but as long is your all good with it, so am I . I checked with P and she's fine with it too (after all, she started it :sly.

So, for today:
https://www.dollswimwear.com/solid-yellow-triangle-top-modern-fit-micro-scrunch-bottom-bikini

With that out of the way, we're now 3 weeks into this rebuild redux and the shell is officially "healthy" again.

I just touched up the engine bay and the rain tray, as opposed to respraying them:



The idea of scuffing them again brought back a flood of bad memories and the task seemed insurmountable .

The wheel wells held up well:

This was good to see because I didn't scuff them even last time, I just degreased them.

The right rear shock tower repair is still perfect :thumbup::


The inner sill repair:

The touched up area was beautiful red and the floor is dirty red, so to even it out, I scuffed the new paint with a cruddy scrub brush and the area looks 30 years old now. That was quicker than making the rest of the floor look new .

And another pic of the bottom, just cuz:


Now I get to start smoothing the outer body, which is easy to say but involves repetitive cycles of scuffing, filling, priming, marker coating, sanding, rinse, lather, repeat, so I'll see you all next Spring when I'm done


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> Thanks, I was actually thinking that this time around I'm being kinda dry and boring. _That_ gave me an idea. I mentionned somewhere that P got a new bikini online for our last vacation, and since then the computer has been embedding bikini ads into any web page I look at. It's titilating and Big Brother scary at the same time, but in any case, I've decided that in each update here, I'm gonna post a link to whichever bikini ad is the day's favorite. It's in poor taste, objectifies women, etc..., but as long is your all good with it, so am I . I checked with P and she's fine with it too (after all, she started it :sly.
> 
> So, for today:
> https://www.dollswimwear.com/solid-yellow-triangle-top-modern-fit-micro-scrunch-bottom-bikini


Yeah, cool thread Doc, and I'm ok with bikini ads, but if I was Big Brother, I'd send you some freakin work boot ads instead of bikini ads. It would keep you safe and more focused.




echassin said:


>


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

LT1M21Stingray said:


> Yeah, cool thread Doc, and I'm ok with bikini ads, but if I was Big Brother, I'd send you some freakin work boot ads instead of bikini ads. It would keep you safe and more focused.


I do have nice work boots but I never use them 

More importantly, how do I embed the bikini ad pic in my post so it doesn't show as a link?


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> I do have nice work boots but I never use them
> 
> More importantly, how do I embed the bikini ad pic in my post so it doesn't show as a link?


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> ... but in any case, I've decided that in each update here, I'm gonna post a link to whichever bikini ad is the day's favorite. It's in poor taste, objectifies women, etc..., but as long is your all good with it, so am I .


I see no harm embedding pics of scantily-clad bikini models with pics of a scantily-clad Scirocco.
Multi-mode entertainment based on a common theme.

Keep up the good work, Doc :thumbup: :beer:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Such great work until you go and blah-blah-blah mess it up.



echassin said:


> Tha that this time around I'm being kinda dry and boring. _That_ gave me an idea. I mentioned somewhere that P got a new bikini online for our last vacation, and since then the computer has been embedding bikini ads into any web page I look at. It's titilating and Big Brother scary at the same time, but in any case, I've decided that in each update here, I'm gonna post a link to whichever bikini ad is the day's favorite. It's in poor taste, objectifies women, etc..., but as long is your all good with it, so am I . I checked with P and she's fine with it too (after all, she started it :sly


By definition, a bikini ad must be titilating (spellcheck can go sulk).

I like the premise & theme. P can can take of herself, and I'm sure she will. Get a cup. Kevlar or better.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

LT1M21Stingray said:


>


It's nice that you embedded the pic, but _how'd you do it?_

I'll slather some Bondo over the various deletes today, but we have a lot goin' on: P is repainting the kitchen, we're extending the driveway, it's mulch and tree trimming season, Fall cleanup, etc...

So the car won't be painted by next weekend...


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## GDR (Sep 25, 2000)

echassin said:


> It's nice that you embedded the pic, but _how'd you do it?_
> 
> I'll slather some Bondo over the various deletes today, but we have a lot goin' on: P is repainting the kitchen, we're extending the driveway, it's mulch and tree trimming season, Fall cleanup, etc...
> 
> So the car won't be painted by next weekend...












Right click image then save image location.
Insert image in post.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> I do have nice work boots but I never use them
> 
> More importantly, how do I embed the bikini ad pic in my post so it doesn't show as a link?


As a wife and mother and Scirocco owner, I need to comment on these most recent discussions.

Eric owns boots???


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I swear to Ogd that when P saw that hind quarter view, she, even though, as far as I know, she doesn't... um, she said that she'd, well...

...anyways, I was able to get the body deletes 60 grit scuffed and covered in the first pass of Bondo.

The wiper delete:

The car suffered a hood latch failure at some point before I had it, hence the previous repairs in the pic.

Bondo applied like cake frosting :


Right after it hardens, it can be "carved" with a spatula, kind of like clay:


The antenna and rear washer deletes:




Next is some filler on the quarter panels:

I couldn't get it to show well in the pic, but AFAIK, all mk2's do this: when they stamped the panel, the corner of the arch where it meets the moulding line creates a stress point and results in a slight dip on the flat part of the panel. I took the time to repeatedly block those areas on P's car, and the result was so good that I'm gonna do it on this car (although it was tedious as ufck).

Till next time *wave*


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## onurB (Nov 4, 2010)

echassin said:


> It's nice that you embedded the pic, but _how'd you do it?_
> 
> I'll slather some Bondo over the various deletes today, but we have a lot goin' on: P is repainting the kitchen, we're extending the driveway, it's mulch and tree trimming season, Fall cleanup, etc...
> 
> So the car won't be painted by next weekend...


Speaking of em_bed_ding...

And _which_ deletes you're talking about?:sly:
Oh, the car, yeah....the car!


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> Eric owns boots???


well yeah. They're in the closet under the pile of your stilettos.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

OK, on a serious note, I need knowledgeable guidance:

I noticed I can't level the tiptissery in such a way that the whole car doesn't wobble.

Long story short, the shell is twisted. A level across the front is level. The same level across the rear needs to be shimmed 5/16" in order to be level. The level itself is 2' long. 

In a wierdly anal moment, I 80 grit sanded all of the paint down to metal to thoroughly examine the shell. The only body shop work is on the left rear corner, which has stud gun marks in a horizontal line, and thin Bondo from the tail light to the wheel arch. It looks like there was a crease.

This twist makes me wonder if that explains the the one rear wheel locking up first, in spite of going through the brake system pretty thoroughly.

I checked my other VWs and they're straight as an arrow. Is there a tolerance spec for twist? I don't see it in Bentley.

I don't see how the shell could be straightened in an economically viable way . It's occuring to me that this car may be toast .


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Interesting. Did you ever have it professionally aligned?

Twist can be fixed on a frame machine. Insurance would pay 2 hours set up and measure and 4 to 6 hours pull time.
At around $70 hr the cost wouldn't be unreasonable if you could get it to the shop.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I don't know if my DIY alignment is part of the braking problem, but assuming it is, that still leaves the question of twist tolerance specs.

The car is not insurred for collision damage, only liability, and in any event, I don't think State Farm would pay much to straighten a 30 year old econocar, let alone one that hasn't been in a collision and is just being restored...

I know folks with trailors so that wouldn't be a huge issue, but I think the two most reasonable options are to accept the twist if it's within spec (I bet it isn't), or find another shell and christen in with the Stepchild moniker.


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

Didn't mean to imply insurance would cover it just giving an idea of cost if you wanted to pursue straightening.

If you could have it straightened for $600 it might be cheaper and easier than starting over with a new shell.

Of course if you decide on a new shell you could get a MKI this time...


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

GDR said:


> Right click image then save image location.
> Insert image in post.


:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: Will be checking this daily!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Not that there's anything wrong with looking at this same lady every day, but I have to disclose that depending on what I do with the shell, there may not be additional pics, if in fact this is The End for the Stepchild.

I've been doing a thought experiment that involves having the car on its side with three bumper mounts chained to our big tree, and the fourth bumper mount chained to our SUV... :screwy::sly::what:


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## crazyaboutrocs (Nov 23, 2005)

I see what you did there. I clicked on the link and now I'm getting these lovely young ladies popping up too. Well played, and I guess a thank you.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Just be sure not to ever click on anything embarassing . I think this new tracking abiliy of search engines is impervious to clearing the "history".

As for the shell, I've been moping all day trying to come up with the most cost effective solution. It's not very dignified, but I might just make 1/4" spacers to put under one strut mount and the opposite shock mount...

...or I'll just junk this POS 

It's not like I don't have anything else to drive


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## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

I'm sort of amazed that after all the effort you've put into this car you'd consider scrapping it so easily when 1) the twist isn't visible to the naked eye and 2)getting it mounted on a frame machine is logistically apparently not a problem.
If the cost of getting it measured and potentially straightened is daunting then I'd suggest that after all the hours you've put into it you're valuing your time below minimum wage.
If you'd be willing to fix my effed up knee at that hourly rate you're on!


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> OK, on a serious note...


but we were having so much fun! Ok, Ok... gimme a minute to get Syrius.



echassin said:


> I noticed I can't level the tiptissery in such a way that the whole car doesn't wobble.


So... 1) replay the tiptissery design in your head, are both ends square to ground? If not make so, and adjustable (say, a screw thread post at each corner). The problem might not be the car, it might me what the car is supported on.



echassin said:


> Long story short, the shell is twisted. A level across the front is level. The same level across the rear needs to be shimmed 5/16" in order to be level. The level itself is 2' long.


At 2', the level is not long enough to be relevant; also implies that you're using a bubble level. There is better tech available.

Go to Home Despot; buy a good contractor's laser level, a sheet of 3/4" plywood, and a bundle of shim wedges.

Like this (and it's even a Bosch): http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bosch-Se...ser-Level-with-Clamping-Mount-GLL-2/205387264

and sorta like this: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Roberts-Laminate-and-Wood-Flooring-Wedge-Spacers-30-Pack-10-27/203409273

For your corner jackstands make a plywood wood platform about base footprint + 3" all sides. Reload and put wedges under the edge.

Set the level, lift the car, strip off the tip-tiss. Now start comparing heights, L vs. R at F, and at R. Let's find out exactly how torqued this shell is, OK? Pick reference points that *should* be the same side to side (bumper mounts, wheel centers?). I think this needs to be quantified before you determine car is scrap or not (if so, I have a decent MK2 8v I'd like to sell...).

Umm. Not to be rude, but I've considered building a Scir-tisserie for a while, recycled the design (in my head) many times. I keep trying to figure out out to keep FR & R ends synch'd, because I think if you don't, you'll torque the uni-body. It isn't designed to handle twisting force.

Just saying. I think if you make a tip-tiss that's fine, but you have to roll the car evenly FR to R.

pink :beer:


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

Eistreiber said:


> I keep trying to figure out out to keep FR & R ends synch'd, because I think if you don't, you'll torque the uni-body. It isn't designed to handle twisting force.
> 
> Just saying. I think if you make a tip-tiss that's fine, but you have to roll the car evenly FR to R.
> 
> pink :beer:



This.

Sorta why I asked about any noticeable body flex in an earlier post. I've heard, especially with all the glass out, (which VW considers "structural" in the mk1 chassis) that the unibodies are pretty flexy. I'm not smart enough to know how to correct that in a rotisserie sort of situation, but I am wondering if your tip-tiss might be a little off front to rear. (the bumper mounts aren't the same height front to rear on a mk1, are they?) I was even told by someone in the community not to even open the door if the car has one end up on stands.

Back when I worked on 356's, the guy I worked with had a rotisserie that he could bolt to the floor, just something he cobbled together out of scrap to get the job done, but he said it was very important to have the front/rear axis exactly the same otherwise you could warp the uni and never know about it until you started to attach body panels. The 356's were floppy enough that with a shell on level jackstands, I could easily lift up a corner a good inch or so off the stand without much effort. Once you got the longitudinal panels welded in place they were a lot stiffer.

I do recall seeing someone doing a resto on a mk1 and tipping it in similar fashion the way you are, but they had a couple of 2x4's bolted to various points inside the shell- one running from B-pillar to B-pillar, (from an upper seatbelt mount point maybe) and another run diagonally from A-pillar to C-pillar on opposite side. Might be something to try once you get it leveled up on stands.

Either way, being tweaked a little isn't enough to warrant tossing the shell, especially if it lines up and tracks straight once it is all together.

Brendan


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

This will be wordy, but bear with me. I did verify a some things before posting about all this:

In order for the twist to flatten, the one front leg of the tiptissery that sits 1/2" in the air and needs to come down to the floor, doesn't. The twist in the shell holds that one leg up in the air 1/2", which is about the same amount of twist I'm measuring on the level. 

There is some flex in the shell as expected: I can easily lift the one leg that's already in the air (it's in front) another 1/2" before the rear leg starts to lift, and the twist increases. If I lift the rear leg at all, the front leg immediately lifts even higher and does not reduce the twist. IOW the weight of the shell is trying to push that one leg to the floor and is trying unsuccessfully to flatten the twist.

Looking back, the amount of time I have in the shell is not too concerning. It was interesting, I learned a lot, and I don't consider the time wasted. Moving forward, this redux hasn't been much fun. It turns out P is pretty stressed about these big projects, which others have warned me about . If it's not fun and it's disruptive, it's not sustainable.

I'll sit on this a little while and then decide what to do. 

Nighty night.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

J. Daniel said:


> I'm sort of amazed that after all the effort you've put into this car you'd consider scrapping it so easily when 1) the twist isn't visible to the naked eye and 2)getting it mounted on a frame machine is logistically apparently not a problem.
> If the cost of getting it measured and potentially straightened is daunting then I'd suggest that after all the hours you've put into it you're valuing your time below minimum wage.


Pretty much my thoughts exactly, E.
You have quite a bit of time, energy, money, and some level of attachment invested in this car, I'm not sure why you'd want to throw in the towel.
Why are you building the car again? It's for you, right?
You know it will never be a collector/concours car, and you'll probably never sell it, you already refer to it as The Stepchild, so this just seems to add to its character.
5/16" from suspension corner to corner is approx 0.17 degrees. Not enough to ruin the car.
Either put it on a frame machine for peace of mind, or slap coilovers on it, corner balance it, and who GAF.

On a side note, I think you're also giving your tiptisserie and the surface this is resting on entirely too much credit for being 'true' themselves.
Don't try to tell me your concrete floor has perfect flatness either because basically none do. 



echassin said:


> I'll sit on this a little while and then decide what to do.


That's the smartest thing you've said about this dilemma so far. 
:beer:


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## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

E. You know, I think your car is fine. I'm no expert but what others have interject with makes a lot of sense. You are experiencing a bit of dissonance with what your seeing. I just thing there are too many variables and if truly this is a 0.17 thing.... Well then put your car together and drive the hell out of it. My rodolfo is rusting. Will never be clean or show worthy but I love to drive that car. It is sure footed even in heavy rain like yesterday. I couldn't trade that. You both have history. Embrace the imprecations and enjoy your vehicle and the rest of the build.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The 0.17 thing caught my attention so I looked up a triangle calculator with the idea that a 24" long level that is lifted 1/4" on one end creates a triangle with two 24" sides and a 1/4" side.

That produces an angle of 0.6 degrees between the two 24" sides.

So the car is twisted 0.6 degrees. I don't know what spec is, but that does seem pretty small. It's a bit more than the 0.17, but thank you for the idea of looking at it in terms of degrees.

Tomorrow I resume the build, although I do need to be more mindful of noise, smells, and time away.


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## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

:thumbup: Eric glad to see you are going to continue the rebuild of this S2 16v !

This thread helps me to see what I need to do to my 88 S2 16v when I rebuild/restore it in someday


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## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

Eric, that amount of twist is next to nothing. Highly likely the "twist" is not spread evenly along the body shell either.

When replacing the whole outer side skin, full roof and whole interior floor on Anton's Mk1 Golf ( rabbit) even after all the spot, stitch and sections of seam welding it became apparent the door apertures needed tweaking to maintain correct door gapping. Was all accomplished with small hydraulic ram and several lengths of timber plus a systematic approach. Car came out way better than expected and the owner is using as a weekend cruiser and track day car.

Whatever you decide with stepchild It would be fairly straightforward to bring it back into line without to much fuss. 

As mentioned, create a true datum surface for all measurements and go from there. :thumbup:


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eric,

I had a Schwinn Le-Tour back in the '70s that I flipped. The bike landed heavily on the handlebars. It bent the frame. I had a bike shop track it and make it straight again. That procedure cost a pretty penny. 

I'm glad you are going on with the refresh.

I know my Sciroccos have always bent a little if I didn't close the doors before jacking them up. Some restorers weld bars in the door openings (of unibody cars) to keep the body straight while it's on a rotisserie. 

As DiezNutz mentioned, the reference may not be quite level either. 

You could visit a body shop or two and ask for a professional opinion. 

-Old Eric


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> The 0.17 thing caught my attention so I looked up a triangle calculator with the idea that a 24" long level that is lifted 1/4" on one end creates a triangle with two 24" sides and a 1/4" side.
> That produces an angle of 0.6 degrees between the two 24" sides.
> So the car is twisted 0.6 degrees. I don't know what spec is, but that does seem pretty small. It's a bit more than the 0.17, but thank you for the idea of looking at it in terms of degrees.


E, what feature are you measuring that's only 24" apart? I thought you only had 1/4" or 5/16" error from one entire side, or end, to the other.

By the way, the 0.17 degrees calculation was from one front suspension corner, diagonally to the the opposite rear suspension corner. That's really where the body 'twist' would matter, as far as the suspension geometry.

Which brings me to the 500lb pink (er.. red) elephant in the room (er.. garage)...
Unless I've missed something, what you've described so far, I think, is body damage that doesn't *necessarily* translate to a skewing of the geometry between the 4 suspension mounting hard points.
Short of a frame machine or jig, or some precision laser-based tools and references, I don't think you have a reliable way to check the alignment of those.
Your tip-T is not mounted to them, it's mounted to the bumper attach points (and there's some 'slop' as well), which are outside of the envelope of the susp. hard points.

So it seems entirely plausible that:

the damage was isolated to the left rear corner of the body and doesn't extend as deep as the rear shock tower - the 'crease' you found is on the rear quarter skin, no? If you'd found a crease in the wheelhouse, that might be a different story.
the entire shell is not tweaked, just the outside left corner. Meaning this is largely cosmetic.
the suspension geometry is not tweaked at all, or at least not to the same degree as your observations have led you to believe


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> ... I know my Sciroccos have always bent a little if I didn't close the doors before jacking them up. Some restorers weld bars in the door openings (of unibody cars) to keep the body straight while it's on a rotisserie...


Absolutely a must when replacing any unibody structural members... and a good idea nonetheless. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I put the level on the lower rad support and on the lower hatch lip so I think I'll get a long ruler and repeat across the strut and shock towers. The left rear corner is indeed just the skin and seems really minor.

The floor and the tiptissery are not causing any twist. If anything they are slightly correcting it, since shimming the one leg that's in the air increases the twist.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alright, I measured across the strut and shock towers and there is no twist at all. What I measured before is likely confined to the corner(s) of the car.

I'm emabarrassed I didn't think to measure at the suspension points first...sorry for the fuss .

Now I gotta get moving before all the bare metal starts to flash rust.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Glad to hear it's not a POS after all  :thumbup:
Forget being embarrassed, it's time to celebrate your turn of fortune and resume our regularly-scheduled programming. :beer:


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## Neptuno (Jul 16, 2003)

Get to work!! Once again we are all full of win!!!


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

I really enjoyed all the talk of chassis flex on this last page. Really technical stuff like that is super interesting to me on a build like this. I see on the last couple pages that you had mentioned you're alignment done at your house possibly contributing to your braking issue. While I can't comment on that being the source, I wouldn't mind helping you out with a legit alignment if needed. PM me if you're interested, otherwise keep up the great work :thumbup:


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## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

A bucket full of win :thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Neptuno said:


> Get to work!! Once again we are all full of win!!!





roccodingo said:


> A bucket full of win :thumbup:


I'd say Eric's cups runneth over with win.

Now, let's make sure that next bikini grrl's cups are runneth over with their own sort of "win."

:laugh: :thumbup:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

scirocco*joe said:


> I'd say Eric's cups runneth over with win.
> 
> Now, let's make sure that next bikini grrl's cups are runneth over with their own sort of "win."
> 
> :laugh: :thumbup:


Foam and silicone?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

pchassin said:


> Foam and silicone?


I don't think our first example has either, but yeah, it seems like it's often one or the other.

In this case, I think it's the other:



I found the front of the bikini bottom the most impressive part of the ensemble (using the term charitably), and I also wonder where one might actually _wear_ something like that, namely because I want to go there, and I also would like to know why no one from there has ever invited me.

As for whether this crosses the line into poor taste, I'll risk it, I think this thread has been a little lacking in that department (poor taste for the benefit of entertainment). In order to be fair, if the Forum Ladies would like to post some Beefcake, have at it. Who knows, us guys might pick up a few pointers on how to be more attractive to the opposite sex.

As for the car (we can't forget the car), it's at that ugly stage where it's ready for primer, and is in all kinds of colors depending on what layer(s) remain.

The repaired quarter is flat after using the Longboy for a few days straight:

The damage was only at the corner where the bumper would have hit it. The rest of the filler is to address the wave over the arch from when VW stamped the panel. It's a very thin layer of filler over a large area, but again, the panel is now totally flat.

Marker coat on the lower door before sanding with the Longboy:


The overall shell, all blocked with a marker coat to catch and fix any dings:


There's much detail to attend to before any primer goes on, but every panel is straight.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> ...I found the front of the bikini bottom the most impressive part of the ensemble (using the term charitably), and I also wonder where one might actually _wear_ something like that, namely because I want to go there, and...


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> The rest of the filler is to address the wave over the arch from when VW stamped the panel. It's a very thin layer of filler over a large area, but again, the panel is now totally flat.


Eric, I meant to ask about this. What exactly are you referring to? Besides, it was Karman that stamped the panel. 

-Old Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> I found the front of the bikini bottom the most impressive part of the ensemble (using the term charitably), and I also wonder where one might actually _wear_ something like that, namely because I want to go there, and I also would like to know why no one from there has ever invited me.
> 
> As for whether this crosses the line into poor taste, I'll risk it, I think this thread has been a little lacking in that department (poor taste for the benefit of entertainment). In order to be fair, if the Forum Ladies would like to post some Beefcake, have at it. Who knows, us guys might pick up a few pointers on how to be more attractive to the opposite sex.


Dang! Photobucket deleted the photo.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Re: above.

Haha.
E got edited.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

On my Ipad the photo doesn't show, on my PC it does . Here's the link: http://www.yandy.com/g/Royal-Blue-B...o&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=retargeting. I don't see why it would be deleted, there's not much more skin than I've seen at some pools.

All cars have what I filled: when they stamp the panel, stress remains in the metal so that when the press lifts, waves appear. You can see this by looking at the reflection of something horizontal in the side of a black brand new car, and see that the horizontal thing looks wavy. I don't like that, so on P's Scirocco I filled it all in, and her car reflects straight from front to back. The filler is very thin. I might have been able to do it with numerous layers of high build primer, but this is faster.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> On my Ipad the photo doesn't show, on my PC it does . Here's the link: http://www.yandy.com/g/Royal-Blue-B...o&utm_medium=display&utm_campaign=retargeting. I don't see why it would be deleted, there's not much more skin than I've seen at some pools.
> 
> All cars have what I filled: when they stamp the panel, stress remains in the metal so that when the press lifts, waves appear. You can see this by looking at the reflection of something horizontal in the side of a black brand new car, and see that the horizontal thing looks wavy. I don't like that, so on P's Scirocco I filled it all in, and her car reflects straight from front to back. The filler is very thin. I might have been able to do it with numerous layers of high build primer, but this is faster.


OIC, I thought it was a Scirocco thing. 

My Scirocco hasn't been hit (that I know of), but if you sight down the side, you can make out subtle waves.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

More:

I tweaked the cowl/hood gap, which I skipped in the initial build:


And I took day bagging the car top and bottom, and the panels front and back:



I don't like seeing primer and paint where they don't belong, and I don't like covering it with undercoating, so the effort is worth, er, the effort. The exposed parts are going to be heavily primed, marker-coated and block sanded repeatedly until I get the same degree of flatness we got on P's car.

The butcher paper along the work edges is to absord direct overspray. Keeping it off the plastic sheets avoids a flaky mess ( I use cheap sheets that don't hold paint well). Tomorrow I gotta go get the primer, solvent, and LongBoy paper.

P will be away this weekend (we need a little time apart...), and I'll prime and sand with impunity :wave:.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thick primer with marker coat. I can already see spots that need tweaking, but 99% of this layer will be block-sanded off to reveal any other flaws.

Astute observers will note that many parts are unprimed: they have passed a 240 LongBoy sanding perfectly and won't be primed until the whole car passes block sanding quality control.

The garage is empty to avoid ruining our stuff with overspray, which I spent more time cleaning up than I did spraying :screwy:. Nevermind the generator which I brought in just to ruin the composition of the picture: reliable electricity is not one of the many benefits we enjoy here, and I got tired of losing the contents of our refrigerator, worrying if the backup sump pump would run out of battery, etc...

I gotta let this harden at least till tomorrow and then start block sanding (*elbow grease*)


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> P will be away this weekend (we need a little time apart...), and I'll prime and sand with impunity :wave:.


:what: I would have thought with you practically living in the garage lately, that you'd been spending plenty of time apart already! 



echassin said:


> The garage is empty to avoid ruining our stuff with overspray, which I spent more time cleaning up than I did spraying :screwy:


Yes preparation is absolute torture, when you just want to get to the freakin' spraying already.
You're making great progress though! :thumbup:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

I ended up leaving Eric this weekend to fine tune his painting skills and took the younger Chassin's on a visit to cousins in Michigan. The crowd was female-heavy, a good change for me.
I learned how to make pierogies from scratch, a classic German meal .

My mom was a great cook but she didn't like sharing her recipes and when I got to the age where I wanted to learn from her, she was already gone.
I just learned the skill from my cousin, though. She has been having get-togethers for the last six years, and all the womenfolk make an assembly line and get to work making a mountain of these little delicacies from scratch.

Yummy. 
I, at least, ate well this weekend.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> :what: I would have thought with you practically living in the garage lately, that you'd been spending plenty of time apart already


Sometimes the garage might not be far enough?



pchassin said:


> I ended up leaving Eric


 Oh wait, I shoulda read the rest before 'ing. Hai Honey *waves*

Yesterday I was able to block some of the thinner primer areas that I knew were flat, and I let the thicker areas harden overnight.

It's really nice out today so I dragged the shell outside and blocked it in the driveway. There was a just-right breeeze that blew all the dust away.

All done and back inside:


Panels done:


Low spots marked for future primer buildup:

I was able to block sand the marker coat off these areas, but I exposed surrounding metal in the process, which is how one knows there's a low spot. This would already look acceptable in paint as is, but would leave subtle waves.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Now you need to _Paint It, Black_. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4irXQhgMqg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6d8eKvegLI


Just kidding. I prefer red.

-Old Eric


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Nice job as usual, great progress, mine seems to be in slow motion compared to this one , lol!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ziggirocco said:


> Nice job as usual, great progress, mine seems to be in slow motion compared to this one , lol!


Thanks, but yours is being done to a much higher level, to wit, your interior redecorating :thumbup:.

Another beautiful day here, so I spent it outside with the shell, going around priming, marker coating, block sanding, rinse, lather, repeat until the Sun began to sink in the West. Most of the shell blocks out without exposing any metal (high spots) or leaving any marker coat behind (low spots).

The wiper and antenna deletes:




The cowl when I got the car:









The last thing before the final primer coat is to tweak the moulding lines:

Minimal changes in the main flat part of the panel produce waves in the moulding line which need to be build up with primer and blocked out seperately, with tape to guide the process. This is especially important when there is no moulding on the final product that'd disguise any waves, which even the untrained eye can easily discern.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

It's just...beautiful. :thumbup:


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eric

Are you going to put the body kit back on?

-Old Eric


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Awesome work, doc. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> It's just...beautiful. :thumbup:


Not really yet, but thanks, I'm optimistic. The moulding lines are straight and for the next few days it'll be block sanding everything else to prep for final primer *yawn*.



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Eric
> 
> Are you going to put the body kit back on?


Yes, I like the way it looks with the big wing, which together weigh about 50 lbs. Also, deleting the kit would require filling 93 fastener holes .



LT1M21Stingray said:


> Awesome work, doc. :thumbup:


Thank you Sir 

I'm reading about Uretane and apparently it'll poison you even on your skin . I'm surprised it's legal, and I'm debating (lightly) redoing the car in catalyzed enamel again, but keep it garaged.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> Not really yet, but thanks, I'm optimistic. The moulding lines are straight and for the next few days it'll be block sanding everything else to prep for final primer *yawn*.


So again... _when_ do you work, exactly? :laugh:
I want to have your work schedule!



echassion said:


> I'm reading about Uretane and apparently it'll poison you even on your skin . I'm surprised it's legal, and I'm debating (lightly) redoing the car in catalyzed enamel again, but keep it garaged.


Yes, the 'cyan' in 'isocyanates' is akin to 'cyanide'.
Wearing a spacesuit is a must.
More importantly keeping it out of your lungs, and for that you need a fresh air respirator.
With those provisions, it's manageable.

OTOH, for the home painter who doesn't have an oven to bake the enamel, you're not going to get a tougher finish than the 2K urethane.

I urethane cleared a set of wheels once... accidentally banged one with the blade of a shovel as I walked past... didn't even scratch it.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eric,

Do you have any friends who are military or retired military?

If so, some military auto hobby shops have paint booths. 

If they have a paint booth, they probably have a guy who can paint (they might not allow anybody else to use the paint booth). It really depends on the auto hobby shop.

There's always a long wait for any special equipment (including lifts), but you aren't in a hurry. 

Even if you can't use their precious paint booth, usually auto hobby shop guys are very helpful and will answer questions. They aren't worried about losing business because they give you advice. 

Some military auto hobby shops have ASE certified mechanics. The auto hobby shop mechanic's primary job is to advise GIs who work on their own cars. The mechanics will help also if need be. There are usually some specialized tools or equipment that only the hobby shop mechanics are allowed to touch. (Usually because GIs kept breaking them.)

I haven't been to local auto hobby shops because I'm not close enough to a base. If I was painting a car, I would check them out and see if any had a paint booth. 

-Old Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eric,

My uncle painted his old farm trucks and equipment with Dupont Imron back in the '70s. I used a similar product later in the USAF to paint ECM Pod housings. It was very tough but "thick" looking like powder coating. Even back then we used masks and went outside for fresh air breaks periodically. If I used it now, I would need to be in the full suit with fresh air respirator (as DiezNutz mentioned).

One guy in a blog (from 2005) said they used Imron for drag cars because it was the only thing that would withstand nitromethane. 


-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> So again... _when_ do you work, exactly? :laugh:
> I want to have your work schedule!


P and I run a Mom-and-Pop Shop and we work most days, but we're usually done around lunch. It's our gig so we make our schedule. Sometimes we work a lot, most times not. Plus, I only do the same two surgeries over and over with the same team, so I don't take a lot of time doing them. 



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> some military auto hobby shops have paint booths.


I wanna paint it in my home "booth", that's part of the challenge/fun.



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> My uncle painted his old farm trucks and equipment with Dupont Imron back in the '70s.


I asked about Imron at the paint store and one of the guys mentionned (and I read online afterwards) that Imron is just a name slapped on stuff that isn't _that_ Imron. I admit I don't know, even after trying to get the scoop online, the difference between Imron, Polyurethane, and Acrylic Urethane. AFAIK, they are the "same"-ish.

More sanding today *groan*.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> P and I run a Mom-and-Pop Shop and we work most days, but we're usually done around lunch. It's our gig so we make our schedule. Sometimes we work a lot, most times not. Plus, I only do the same two surgeries over and over with the same team, so I don't take a lot of time doing them.


Thanks for sharing that insight. :thumbup: That's quite the arrangement you have there, and a great work-life balance, compared to my situation.
At least now I can stop wondering how you're able to make all this amazing progress.
I'm still jealous of your 'free time' though. 



echassin said:


> I asked about Imron at the paint store and one of the guys mentionned (and I read online afterwards) that Imron is just a name slapped on stuff that isn't _that_ Imron.


TRUE.
The original Dupont Imron from back in the '70s was the shizz for its time. I had a yellow Squareback that PO had professionally repainted with Imron back in the day. You could rub the heel of your hand over a faded section of paint (single-stage), and it would immediately come back shiny as new.
Then at some point they had to change the formulation (don't recall why) and it was not the same stuff after that.
It was never easy to paint, expensive, and not really ideal for home garage warriors like us.

Nowadays there's even better urethanes that are more user-friendly all around - easier to shoot, quicker to cure, cheaper, and just as durable if not more so.
The urethane I'd used a good bit in the past (including the aforementioned shovel incident) was UTECH. There's probably even better now.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> ... Plus, I only do the same two surgeries over and over with the same team, so I don't take a lot of time doing them.


Hopefully not on the same patient... 

Next time I'm painting my VWs, I'm using Glasurit (OEM). I might buy PPG for my domestic car/truck.


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## VWsEatRice (Jan 13, 2004)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Eric,
> 
> My uncle painted his old farm trucks and equipment with Dupont Imron back in the '70s. I used a similar product later in the USAF to paint ECM Pod housings. It was very tough but "thick" looking like powder coating. Even back then we used masks and went outside for fresh air breaks periodically. If I used it now, I would need to be in the full suit with fresh air respirator (as DiezNutz mentioned).
> 
> ...


my dad had a gallon of that that came w/his new to him pickup. he used a brush on an aluminum boat and it dried to a smooth finish.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alright, I got the paint today: PPG JAU single stage urethane. The gallon was $207 and with everything needed to thin it, harden it, and get it on the car without dying it was $360.

Here's the kicker: it's more durable than the acrylic enamel I used the first time around, in every way except to UV exposure . The only way I could get the UV resistance I want was to move up to the basecoat clearcoat, and just the gallon of color was about $500, without any of the other stuff needed or the clearcoat. It's not just the cost I don't want. I want that OEMm look orange peel look single stage gives.

Soooo, I went for the added durability of the urethane, which wasn't much more expensive than the enamel, and the car will have to stay inside or be covered. P's car is in acrylic enamel and has stayed gorgeous in the garage, so that's what we'll do with this one.

I have the fenders and the hood to sand, then final prime/marker coat, then block it all at 400, and _then _I can paint it.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

LT1M21Stingray said:


> Next time I'm painting my VWs, I'm using Glasurit (OEM). I might buy PPG for my domestic car/truck.


Their 90-line does interest me. :thumbup:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> Alright, I got the paint today: PPG JAU single stage urethane. The gallon was $207 and with everything needed to thin it, harden it, and get it on the car without dying it was $360.
> 
> Here's the kicker: it's more durable than the acrylic enamel I used the first time around, in every way except to UV exposure . The only way I could get the UV resistance I want was to move up to the basecoat clearcoat, and just the gallon of color was about $500, without any of the other stuff needed or the clearcoat. It's not just the cost I don't want. I want that OEMm look orange peel look single stage gives.
> 
> Soooo, I went for the added durability of the urethane, which wasn't much more expensive than the enamel, and the car will have to stay inside or be covered. P's car is in acrylic enamel and has stayed gorgeous in the garage, so that's what we'll do with this one.


Sounds like a good plan to keep covered. Doesn't help any that red is the WORST color for UV breakdown.
You will be very happy with the durability of the urethane. :thumbup:

So about that respirator though...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alright, I spent the past week blocking the car with 180/220 and I spent today laying down 3 coats of primer and a marker coat:



The rear corner still needs tweaking, but after that I'll block all of this with 400, prime any bare spots that result, scuff those, clean and rebag everything, and then _finally_: paint!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

echassin said:


> The rear corner still needs tweaking, but after that I'll block all of this with 400, prime any bare spots that result, scuff those, clean and rebag everything, and then _finally_: paint!


Alright, the blocking at 400 grit is done and the rear corner is nice and straight:

The picture is showing the upper convex body line and the concave body line just beneath it, both of which were previously repaired before I got the car, to an acceptable degree that one would expect for collision repair, but they weren't completely straight. Now they are 

I'm close to paint, but psychologically I need things "neat" around here first, and things are anything but that nowadays. P is painting the kitchen, and the driveway looks like this:

Logistically the number of cars has made getting one out of the garage too challenging, so we're extending the driveway to get the Passat and the Cabby out of the way. The guy who's doing the work is interesting to watch: He's huge, and he busted up all the old concrete and moved it and all the dirt he dug up with hand tools only, and _fast_. He didn't seem to get tired at all. Oh, and he's my age !


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

OooohKaay, big update, lots going on around here, which when you like things neat can be kinda stressful.

Petra painted the kitchen (it came out great :heart:


And as a treat for her, well, she's always wanted a truck:


Obviously I'm kidding, cuz we already revealed that we're extending our driveway, which they poured yesterday:

Those concrete guys work hard for their money .

While they were doing that, a set of 205/50/15's arrived:


I was so excited that it might be the new wheels that I ran out to meet the UPS guy, and I kid you not, I stepped in a fresh concrete repair :facepalm::

The workers didn't bat an eye, one said folks get their cars stuck in fresh concrete all the time!

Anyways, while all that's been happening, I've been doing a marathon of painting the Stepchild. I did the car in sections over the past week, with each day divided into three parts: morning to clear out the garage, cover _everything_, and tape off the section(s) to be painted, afternoon to spray, evening to uncover the garage and bring everything back in. I do not know how much I spent on plastic sheets and tape :screwy:.

Here's my "booth" setup:

The car's on it's side to get the paint wet without running.

The paint flowed really well:

This is the repaired rear corner, and it looks great *phew*.

I have three runs: the front lip of the hood again (I'll repair that like I did on P's 16V with a soft tape edge on the metal fold), the rear panel, and the right quarter down near the rocker panel. The last two are small and should respond well to the razor blade scraping trick (I think, or I hope). I have one mildly dry area along the bottom of the right rear window which I think is thick enough to sand and buff, but it's not bad anyways.

Tape removed:


The deletes look good, antenna and rear washer nozzle:


Extra wiper hole:


The panels:

They're pretty flat, certainly as good as anything that comes out of a factory. The planes usually hang on the garage wall but they're downstairs to protect them from overspray. Those planes are wood from the days when that's how it was done, and they all can hover like a helicopter at about half throttle and then rocket straight up when you punch it .

Flat door:


Nice flow:

I was happy to have that because these areas were a ibtch to buff before.

Anyhoo, I gotta let this all harden for a while before sanding and buffing, plus I'm beat and have to catch up on the Honey-Do List, so for now,

Adios *wave*


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

That looks great! :thumbup:

Reminds me of my action last week....







Quick tip: Wet sand it again when the paint is absolutely hardened in 3 weeks or so with 2500 or 3000 grit, polish it to gloss again with Meguiar´s Ultimate Compound or Menzerna or whatever on good polishing stuff you can get. Then seal it with Soft99 Fusso Coat. This thing will have so deep and crystal clear gloss you won´t believe it. :beer:

And you don´t have to worry on any dirt in the next 6 months....the coating will keep everything easy to remove. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t1Qqw2OQ7Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAo8un7l8B4


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

All Eyez on me said:


> That looks great! :thumbup:
> 
> Quick tip: Wet sand it again ...


Thanks, this is my best spray job yet . I'm really happy with it in spite of the niggly things I need to fix. For a garage job using a $50 gun and a hand held light, I don't see doing much better. BTW, I did wear a full suit I took from the O.R., hat, gloves, booties, goggles, and obviously respirator. The fans did a great job clearing the fog to the outdoors, and I noticed my neighbor put his cars into our other neighbor's driveway  (they're cool).

I haven't touched the paint yet and likely won't for a loooong time, when it's totally cured, all solvents are gone, it's shrunk as much as it will shrink, etc...

I'll hafta try that stuff you mentionned, thanks.


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## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

Bee-autiful


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

:heart:


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## vwtdiwagon (Oct 28, 2002)

Wow, great work!
Any chance you would like to paint a MK1 Blue?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for the nice comments. I did look into getting some soft99 Fusso Coat, and at $85 a can, I'll stick with mainstream stuff 

A lot going on around here, Petra is the photographer today. First, a group of Starlings that were having a grand ol' time eating the berries off our Pear tree:


Petra and I spent the day working on the driveway. To start, there used to be a sidewalk going to the back. The concrete guy busted in up for us, and they're gonna haul it all away, but P and I want to take advantage of the good weather to finish the landscaping, so the entire Chassin clan moved the chunks:

It turns out, and this may come as much of a surprise to some of you as it did to us: concrete is ufcking _heavy_! We hope the boys learned a valuable lesson on the virtues of good grades.

Then we used the dirt they dug out to make room for the driveway to fill in where the sidewalks used to be and level out/raise the flower beds:



It also turns out that dirt is ufcking heavy. The pile they produced was 37 feet long, about 1-2 feet high, 6 feet wide, and interspersed with sod, to make shoveling it extra special...

While we were doing that, the UPS guy showed up with some boxes:

Astute observers will note the boxes are the same, and sized suspiciously to fit something special. Those same astute observers will likely also note that there are only three boxes, which the UPS guy reassured me isn't unusual. Maybe tomorrow. Additionally, I did mention to Petra that the pic is fuzzy, and she muttered something like "next time take yer own stupid pics".

What do we have here?

Enkei something-or-anothers that look great. 15x7 et 38, so I'll use 10mm spacers in front and 15 mm spacers in back. I also got hubcentric rings for them.


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> And as a treat for her, well, she's always wanted a truck:


P, just to remind you if you've forgotten; I do have a valid Class A CDL, Heavy Truck. I can run a 9-sp trans (or a 13-), and would be quite happy to teach you about how to double-clutch.

It's just a truck(ing) thing.

Might wanna start with a Rab & a 4-sp though, work up from there.


----------



## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

*WHAT??*? In the US they sell all these wonderful car products cheap as hell and they want 85$ for Soft99 Fusso Coat??? :screwy:

Looking-glass world...:screwy: here in germany I pay only 25€ (that´s only ~ 28$) for this good stuff. Alternative go get you some Meguiar´s NXT Generation Wax or some Liquid Glass. It´s not as perfect as the Soft99 but the gloss is amazing too. 

And this stuff I saw im WalMart 2 years ago (our first visit to the states at our wedding trip) cheap as hell.....and idiot I was I did not take anything of the looooong selling rack they had with me because I had in mind they won´t let me in the plane with it....:banghead:
Here we pay a lot more for the good stuff like Meguiar´s, Mothers and all the other fine things...:banghead:

Go get you some good stuff. Your car and all your work you put in is worth it to have the perfect finish. :thumbup::beer:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> P, just to remind you if you've forgotten; I do have a valid Class A CDL, Heavy Truck. I can run a 9-sp trans (or a 13-), and would be quite happy to teach you about how to double-clutch.


Meh.
E wiki'ed double clutch for me, and I skimmed the material.
I'll just have E convert any ol' truck to automatic.
 atcha.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

pchassin said:


> Meh.
> 
> I'll just have E convert any ol' truck to automatic.


No.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I was able to do the razor blade trick on the rocker panel run but I had to respray the front of the hood, the bottom lip of one of the rear windows, and the lip at the bottom of the rear license plate panel. A soft tape edge works great on a Sciroccs cuz the car so angular. Even without buffing the paint repairs can barely be discerned *phew*.

I also repainted the door frame, B-pillar, and hatch blackouts.

While this all hardens fully, the process of producing a "kit" of parts begins again. Hopefully it won't be too hard since the stuff is only 4 years old.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> E wiki'ed double clutch for me, and I skimmed the material.


I was going for the double entendre, but I guess I don't speak French well enough. Given my German ancestry, I'm cool with that.




pchassin said:


> I'll just have E convert any ol' truck to automatic.





echassin said:


> No.


yeah... good luck on that sh*t. :laugh: A truck trans weighs more than any two or maybe three cars you have, and the Wiki entry is poorly thought out; yes you can float- shift but it'll eat the trans. Drain the oil, you can use a wide-mesh screen to catch the metal chunks coming out.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

pchassin said:


> Meh.
> E wiki'ed double clutch for me, and I skimmed the material.
> I'll just have E convert any ol' truck to automatic.
> atcha.


There's a reason most heavy truck transmissions are manuals.
Automatics are inherently weak. And expensive. And waste fuel. And don't give you much control over your load (stop snickering...)

You're a strong girl... you should drive a strong transmission.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

DiezNutz said:


> There's a reason most heavy truck transmissions are manuals.
> Automatics are inherently weak. And expensive. And waste fuel. And don't give you much control over your load (stop snickering...)
> 
> You're a strong girl... you should drive a strong transmission.


Well. Hmm.
Here it is.

I don't care about the weak part. I will merely demand more....because I want more .
And I don't care about expensive. If I say I want it, just make it happen ...
And....I do care about fuel consumption, really, I do. But the world is going to hell in a handbasket...and most people are wasteful, somehow, someway...but I want to enjoy myself also ...

But I do to to the gym pretty regularly...so I do have some load, errr... control :sly:...

Manual works in most of the world, but I live in Chicago...and lotsa other peeps live in Chi-ca-go-a-land. When I'm in traffic, I want one hand on the wheel, and the other hand picking out tunes and slurping a bev of choice (diet coke usually, or if I am feeling healthy, a chilled water).


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

DiezNutz said:


> There's a reason most heavy truck transmissions are manuals.
> Automatics... don't give you much control over your load (stop snickering...


I once hauled a load of lead from south LA (good source) to some custom bullet shop shop in ID (yay, recycling!). Overweight, I couldn't fill my tanks or I'd be 1k over on the steers and another 1k on the drives, I already had everything I could running on the rears, 34k lbs. I had to run LA to mid-ID on about 3/4 tank top-offs to stay legal-ish.

There were a couple of hills where I was damn glad I was running a Volvo 9-sp, 3- stage Jake brake (2/4/6 cyl lockdown); keep the speed low with the trans and jake, keep the brakes cool and the air pressure high. Running 80k lbs of lead over hills is not fun in a truck, but I'd love to do it in an X-1/9.

It's like flying an aircraft, a good landing is when you walk away, not on fire.

A slushbox woulda puked and died.

:beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> Running 80k lbs of lead over hills is not fun in a truck, but I'd love to do it in an X-1/9.


I'm sure a Fiat 2 seater could haul 80 thousand pounds of lead over some hills, but I imagineit would take a few trips


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> I'm sure a Fiat 2 seater could haul 80 thousand pounds of lead over some hills, but I imagine it would take a few trips


yeah, but one could save a bit of travel to off-load by making the final few hundred yards with a nice Breda MG, or even a rack of Beretta semi-auto's. Lead doesn't care how it travels.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

So the driveway is "done" pending some landscaping which I think can wait till Spring:


And Keith had a Birthday party yesterday, so there were some kids milling around:

I was thinking how glad I am that the tiptissery is steel this time around...

With everything else going on, I stole some time to get the gas tank done, and installing my steel header tank and all the lines that go with it:

This was a lot of work because I stripped off the undercoating I originally used to finish the tank, then scuffed, primed, and painted the tank silver, which I think looks better. I spent this morning sand blasting the heat shield, and dressing the welded patches I put on during the initial build, then primed and painted that too.

The installed tank, with Cosmoline in all sensitive areas:


Next I gotta install the hard lines, but they need some work first. Maybe I'll do the rear beam first, we'll see.


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

Wait, I'm confused as this looks like your wife's auto Rocco?!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

markeysscirocco said:


> Wait, I'm confused as this looks like your wife's auto Rocco?!


That's understandable: we have 2 Tornado Red Mk2 16Vs with round headlights, that look superficially the same. 

Hers ("Bob") has everything she wanted: automatic transmission, A/C, power steering, full sound proofing/insulation, heated seats, power windows, and stereo.

Mine (The Red Headed Stepchild) has none of those things, nor door reinforcement bars, plus it has the lighter Euro bumpers and a healthy 2.0 (9A). Mine weighs 250 lbs less and has a much lower parts count: it has no ISV, no HVAC servos or vacuum tank, no antisway bars (I just rely on stiffer springs), it has only one accessory belt, no brake warning light, no horns, and the car has only 4 relays (pumps, wipers, turns/hazards, and that relay that turns everything off when you're cranking).

They're both very nice to drive, but obviously hers is refined and mine is, er, not so much...


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

Hmmm ok I get it now. So why no anti sway bars and are you relying on coil overs to stuffin and hold the road with?! I to have now my second S2 and will run a 2.0/1.8 head T3/T4 setup with g60 Coraddo fuel and ECU management. SNS 18psi chip. Bilstien sport struts and HR springs. So with this power I have to use HD stabilizer bars and K bar. 


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## ziggirocco (Dec 13, 2010)

Why didn't you paint the floors?
All the rest is 100% super!


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> The installed tank, with Cosmoline in all sensitive areas:
> 
> 
> Next I gotta install the hard lines, but they need some work first. Maybe I'll do the rear beam first, we'll see.


Since the fuel tank isn't even in the same area code as the spare tire well, it begs the question of why VW had to change to a space saver spare starting in 1985.

BTW, nice work Eric. Can you come help me swap out my fuel lines and tank?

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ziggirocco said:


> Why didn't you paint the floors?


On a whim I decided to make the car look "OEM Plausible", which includes unpainted Schutz under the car, with only overspray on it from when they sprayed the color. In the same vein I didn't just paint the tank and heat sheild black. They're the colors like original.

Of course, I may change my mind as I progress .


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Since the fuel tank isn't even in the same area code as the spare tire well, it begs the question of why VW had to change to a space saver spare starting in 1985.
> 
> BTW, nice work Eric. Can you come help me swap out my fuel lines and tank?
> 
> -Old Eric


I think the small spare was an economy/weight thing. Many cars don't even have a spare nowadays, and I don't bother with one in my VWs unless I want the car correct.

Thanks for the compliment; I'll come help you swap out your fuel system, but you gotta get the car on its side, take the rear beam off, and clean everything real good first...

Of wait, that leaves only the fun part


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> I think the small spare was an economy/weight thing. Many cars don't even have a spare nowadays, and I don't bother with one in my VWs unless I want the car correct.
> 
> Thanks for the compliment; I'll come help you swap out your fuel system, but you gotta get the car on its side, take the rear beam off, and clean everything real good first...
> 
> Of wait, that leaves only the fun part


I was mostly joking.  

My '04 Phaetons have full sized spares. For ROW, you could get a can of fix-a-flat and a compressor instead of a spare. 

-Old Eric


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Since the fuel tank isn't even in the same area code as the spare tire well, it begs the question of why VW had to change to a space saver spare starting in 1985.


1984.5 
Well, they're right next to each other... so if not the same zip code, at least adjacent towns. 
The space-saver spare allowed for the larger fuel tank. That was really the point. The space saver spare didn't save _that_ many pounds, especially if you offset that with larger tank & ~3 extra gallons of fuel.
The early tank was shorter and more of a rectangle.


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

echassin said:


> Mine (The Red Headed Stepchild) has none of those things, nor door reinforcement bars, plus it has the lighter Euro bumpers and a healthy 2.0 (9A). Mine weighs 250 lbs less and has a much lower parts count: it has no ISV, no HVAC servos or vacuum tank, no antisway bars (I just rely on stiffer springs), it has only one accessory belt, no brake warning light, *no horns*, and the car has only 4 relays (pumps, wipers, turns/hazards, and that relay that turns everything off when you're cranking).


Everything else I get, but *WHY NO HORNS*?!?

My bacon has been saved way too many times by a loud *TOOT* when idiots don't see me.

While I know this fine red steed is maneuverable and quick, I think this is a bit of an oversight.

Unless of course it was a, ahem, _strategic_ recommendation from Petra...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Horns Schmorns 

Hard lines are done:


Rear beam is next, but I gotta perdy it up first.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

DiezNutz said:


> 1984.5
> Well, they're right next to each other... so if not the same zip code, at least adjacent towns.
> The space-saver spare allowed for the larger fuel tank. That was really the point. The space saver spare didn't save _that_ many pounds, especially if you offset that with larger tank & ~3 extra gallons of fuel.
> The early tank was shorter and more of a rectangle.


So the early tank wasn't under the rear seat? My 1982 Scirocco went upside down but I don't remember what the tank looked like. 

I thought the space saver spare was introduced to allow a larger tank, but with all of the space, it looks like you could easily graft a full size spare tire well in the later body.

My suburb has two zip codes. I have no idea how many zip codes are in the entire Salt Lake valley. 

-Old Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

scirocco*joe said:


> Everything else I get, but *WHY NO HORNS*?!?
> 
> My bacon has been saved way too many times by a loud *TOOT* when idiots don't see me.
> 
> ...


The only reason I know my horns work is because my cars pass inspection. They are required for the safety inspection here. 

-Old Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> Horns Schmorns
> 
> Hard lines are done:
> 
> ...


It's purdy already. 

Did you get new fuel injection lines? I have new ones from MK1, but the engine compartment ends don't seem to be double flared (unless they are supposed to form when you tighten the connectors).

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The beam looks pretty good already but I ground off unused tabs and I'm gonna blast, prime and paint it, whereas before I just sanded it quick and hit it with rust converter before paint.

The brake lines and high pressure feed line are original and nicely rehabbed. The low pressure return line is new. I used 5/16" brake line, which is the same diameter as the original fuel line. The original cracked during the initial build and I only discovered it when the car was done. I rigged a piece of rubber hose across the broken section, part of which was in the engine bay near the header. That was one of several shady things that I always intended to revisit, and which eventually prompted this redux rebuild.

AFAIK, your hard lines should have double flares on all the ends. My new return line needs a flare, and I might need to replace one brake line fitting, which will require cutting off and redoing the flare there.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> The beam looks pretty good already but I ground off unused tabs and I'm gonna blast, prime and paint it, whereas before I just sanded it quick and hit it with rust converter before paint.
> 
> The brake lines and high pressure feed line are original and nicely rehabbed. The low pressure return line is new. I used 5/16" brake line, which is the same diameter as the original fuel line. The original cracked during the initial build and I only discovered it when the car was done. I rigged a piece of rubber hose across the broken section, part of which was in the engine bay near the header. That was one of several shady things that I always intended to revisit, and which eventually prompted this redux rebuild.
> 
> AFAIK, your hard lines should have double flares on all the ends. My new return line needs a flare, and I might need to replace one brake line fitting, which will require cutting off and redoing the flare there.


Thanks for the info.

The fuel tank ends are made for clamped-on rubber fuel lines. They have areas that are expanded (for lack of a better word) to keep the hoses from sliding off. The engine side has flared ends but they aren't "finished". I hope that they are supposed to form when you clamp them. 

-Old Eric


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

scirocco*joe said:


> Everything else I get, but *WHY NO HORNS*?!?





echassin said:


> Horns Schmorns.



I hear RPGs will become cheaper soon, go with a couple of those.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> So the early tank wasn't under the rear seat? My 1982 Scirocco went upside down but I don't remember what the tank looked like.
> I thought the space saver spare was introduced to allow a larger tank, but with all of the space, it looks like you could easily graft a full size spare tire well in the later body.


Here, this ought to clear things up. Compare to E's late chassis pic above (#1355).
In both cases, there's a structural crossmember that separates the fuel tank and spare tire well. Each takes up all of their respective area underneath the floor.
The early/full-size spare tire well is much larger than the space-saver tire well, it won't fit into the later floor.
Note how the fuel tank outline and crossmember are reworked from their very rectangular/straight early form, to increase the volume of the tank.
This is only made possible by shrinking the spare tire well to donut size.












53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Thanks for the info.
> The engine side has flared ends but they aren't "finished". I hope that they are supposed to form when you clamp them.
> -Old Eric


Not bloody likely, if you've ever flared your own lines you know there's a fair amount of pressure involved. Even more so if you have stainless.
I'm skeptical of this...my suggestion would be to contact Mk1AH and ask them what's up.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

This is the new trend, store your Scirocco sideways.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

LT1M21Stingray said:


> This is the new trend, store your Scirocco sideways.


:laugh: That's one way to fit more of them in the garage. Just want to mind the cylinders getting hydrolocked with oil after they sit a while.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm pretty sure there's also a limit to how much side load the bumper mounts can take...

Slow going in order to bring things up a bit in quality. For the rear axle beam 4 years ago, I sanded, wire wheeled, ground it, and slathered it with rust converter before paint. It held up OK outside, but this time I sand blasted it bare before primer and paint. It looks the same to be honest, but I know it's silver under all that, not brown:


I also finished the fuel supply side:

Lots of paint and Cosmoline, so it doesn't look as pretty as it did an hour ago, but I also blasted each piece and it's all silver under there. Any damaged fittings and flares are new. I got two nice flaring kits online and it's much easier than I thought it would be. Why two kits? Be sure to use a metric ISO kit, not the American kit . I found a correct fuel pump bracket to replace the one I made. It also has lots of paint and primer over blasted metal, so hopefully it will last even as it inevitably traps water. We'll see. The blue connector on the fuel pump is an addition I made to hook up the pump more easily while it's mounted. The plug is from an R/C plane and is super high quality, weather resistant, can handle a zillion watts, etc...

My original plan was to reinstall the exhaust whole, but the current reassembly order now mandates the exhaust come apart, but I'll mark where everything was, plus it'll give me a chance to clean up each bit separately.

:wave:


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

DiezNutz said:


> Here, this ought to clear things up. Compare to E's late chassis pic above (#1355).
> In both cases, there's a structural crossmember that separates the fuel tank and spare tire well. Each takes up all of their respective area underneath the floor.
> The early/full-size spare tire well is much larger than the space-saver tire well, it won't fit into the later floor.
> Note how the fuel tank outline and crossmember are reworked from their very rectangular/straight early form, to increase the volume of the tank.
> ...


Thanks for the picture. Are you redoing your '82?

I bought the fuel lines long ago, but I might have already contacted them. I'll take pictures and contact them again. I have bought a lot of stuff from them so hopefully they will help me. I have double flared some lines in my time, but they were probably brass. It was a long time ago. 

-Old Eric


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Frack not having a Horn... Either







OR at least


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

Horns?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> Frack not having a Horn... Either
> 
> 
> 
> ...





echassin said:


> Horns Schmorns


Once I decided to install the exhaust in pieces, I marked stuff to reinstall it all in the same position, which is important because this is the only exhaust I have that never rattles on anything . I was pleased that the bits came apart easily (stainless), and I spent some time tweaking the downpipe to my satisfaction:

Astute observers will note that the heat shield is gone and will also note a "patch" on the pipe itself. It's the section that VW smashes in to clear the anti-sway bar (instead of bending the bar a bit :facepalm. I cut the area out, banged it flat, and welded it back, which also madated the hanger be cut off and re-welded. I'll blast the downpipe and paint it with high temp black.

Next I blasted, painted, and installed the rack:

It's a PS rack without any PS bits, and I did away with all the tubes, including the vent tube for the tie rod boots, by inserting foam "filters" in any holes to allow air to move but keep dirt out.

Lastly for today, I found an NOS U-joint boot to replace this tired piece:


Next is the tie rods.

Overall, I wanna get the engine started ASAP, so I gotta get the electricals, HVAC, pedals, etc... in first.

Bye Bye


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Originally Posted by *echassin*  
Horns Schmorns 
-----------

Harrumph!

(Currently posting from the Laundromat- I guaranty this post is squeaky clean, biodegradable, and phosphate-free...)


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Astute observers will note that the heat shield is gone and will also note a "patch" on the pipe itself. It's *the section that VW smashes in to clear the anti-sway bar* ...I cut the area out, banged it flat, and welded it back...


Wie sagt mann auf Deutsch, "Yer just fooked yerself!" ?

Just saying. Bitte schon.

:beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> "Yer just fooked yerself!"


Not sure if this is what you mean, but I think you are predicting impingement between the down pipe and the antisway bar?

Fear not: there's no antisway bar. There wasn't a bar when you drove the car, and you seemed OK with the handling. The stiffer suspension seems to do the trick.


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

Eistreiber said:


> Wie sagt mann auf Deutsch, "Yer just fooked yerself!" ?
> 
> Just saying. Bitte schon.
> 
> :beer:


I translate if you want...

"Du hast Dich selbst gefickt!" that would be the right german pronounce....

And it´s Bitte sch*ö*n! :beer::thumbup:


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

Lol


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Fear not: there's no antisway bar. There wasn't a bar when you drove the car, and you seemed OK with the handling.


OK... then again I didn't pull up the Scir's tail to check, that's a good way to lose an arm.

But I stand corrected; if there's not the Thing the flat part was flattened to clear, then there's no problem; you can re-round or make fluffy to your heart's content.

And you are an anal-retentive idealist, I mean that in the best possible way (*MODS !! Need a "bow-down in homage" emoticon!* I've been asking for a while! Get on it! Jeez...).



All Eyez on me said:


> "Du hast Dich selbst gefickt!" that would be the right german pronounce....
> 
> And it´s Bitte sch*ö*n! :beer::thumbup:


well yeah, if one knows how to get a frikkin umlaut without stuttering. Thanks BTW. And I didn't study German long enough to really get into time-tenses, I was still trying to wrap my head around all nouns having gender. I did like the distinction between singular "you" [ du ] and plural "you" [ Ihr ], english is sloppy that way, causes confusion. And about all we can do with American to make it more clear is to go out of our conversational way to make clear, "No I don't mean just *you* can KMA, I mean *alla y'all* can KMA" which is unseemly and likely to get one lynched.

I stand corrected again, or still or something.

Screw it. :beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> I didn't pull up the Scir's tail to check, that's a good way to lose an arm.


For some reason I envisioned checking whether some mythological beast is male or female :sly:

Today L is hunting and K is out with a friend, so P and I are gonna go out on a real Date :what:, but I did steal some time to install the tie rods and put everything in the tunnel (shifter, exhaust hangers, heat shield):



The rubber hanger that holds the downpipe tends to sag to this one is reinforced with metal.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> ... so P and I are gonna go out on a real Date.


Um...

Nevermind. Hope the both'n of you have fun.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

P and I ate and drank too much yesterday, but after recovering, I spent the morning doing final wiring deletes on the harnesses, so that I never have to look at a blank plug and wonder if something's supposed to be connected to it .

Then I got the electricals installed:



Astute observers will note there's not much left, which simplifies the job and makes future work less "16V" and more "'62 Beetle".

I do have an amusing anecdote, and by "amusing" I mean [email protected]#$%^&*!!!WTF!!!.:

This innocent looking pic is of what little remains of the hatch wiring, namely the defogger and the license plates lights. The wire runs up the C-pillar and I pulled the wire by first feeding a socket (weight) on the end of a string...

...well,_ two_ sockets actually, because the first one got completely caught somewhere in the C-pillar, against some doubler, and I broke the string trying to get the socket dislodged . So, whoever gets the car after me also gets a free (albeit useless) SAE socket .

HVAC next, but that's for Another Day


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

echassin said:


> HVAC next, but that's for Another Day


And Today is Another Day:



What we're looking at? Well, very little, but that's it for HVAC: there are no more vacuum servos, vacuum tank, hoses, vacuum switch, etc...

The controls that remain are the center and lateral dash vent levers, the blower switch, and the hot water valve thingy. The foot well vent door is adjusted with a tweaked metal rod that lets some air into the foot well and most of the air into the defog duct, which has no door anymore. Visibility trumps foot warmth, but not completely. Opening the center dash vent only as needed allows warm air into the rest of the cabin. An inop vacuum switch means I "tested" the car unwillingly for the past two winters like this and comfort was adequate. The low parts count of this setup appeals to me and is in stark contrast to P's 16v.

Next I'll finish loading the firewall: pedals, speedo and throttle cables, brake booster, etc...


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

The Minimalist and Engineer in my DNA applaud your efforts & retrofit. 

That said, I have a good Scirocco/Internet Friend who will be talking to you about that socket... (He's a Submariner btw...)


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Yeah. I've been known to drop belly pans off a bulldozer to retreive a cheap POS 3/8 socket, cuz otherwise; knowing it was there would drive me nutz. Nutzier, I mean.

:laugh:

Magnetic fishing? Three- foot spring claw? There's gotta be a way.


Hmm... Procedure!

1] Materials: decent sized magnet, some sort of soft fabric, mechanics wire.

2] Wrap magnet in fabric so it doesn't scratch fresh paint. Or Old Paint (but you're not a horse guy, are you? Nevermind).

3] Wave magnet around body cavity where you think the lost socket is, listen for rattle.

4] When socket found inside cavity, move magnet outside cavity to 'walk' socket to somewhere easier to reach.

5] Use mechanics wire; make a hook, drag that sumbeech socket out. Same hole it went in will work for pulling it out, but you'll need to be careful of Freudian weirdness.

6] Have pink drink and smugly wallow in your ability to outsmart an inanimate object (it's all about the thumbs, really).


7] :laugh:


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

TBerk said:


> (Currently posting from the Laundromat- I guaranty this post is squeaky clean, biodegradable, and phosphate-free...)


All that + no skid-marks, too.

[ Tosha you *know* I can't pass up a straight line like that, I'm gonna Go There at warp 9. ]


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The socket got wedged pulling up, I hope in time with enough road bumps, it will fall down. But take my word for it, actively retrieving kt would cause way more harm than good...

...and besides, I can't get sued for leaving something behind here, so Meh.


----------



## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> The socket got wedged pulling up, I hope in time with enough road bumps, it will fall down. But take my word for it, actively retrieving kt would cause way more harm than good...
> 
> ...and besides, I can't get sued for leaving something behind here, so Meh.


Next time you might want to try one of two things made for this purpose (wire pulling): fish tape, or the set of skinny screw-together fiberglass rods. Both are cheap. The latter has saved my butt a number of times.

Hopefully when the socket jars loose it doesn't fall into someplace even less accessible, and create a rattle that drives you nuts... then you're gonna have to start ripping panels off again to get to it...

Work smarter not harder, Doc.


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Thanks for the picture. Are you redoing your '82?


I wish.  That one continues to wait for "someday".
Was just a picture I found on the interwebs... more than likely a Rabbit/Golf, but they pretty much all look the same under their kilt.

(3...2...1...)


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today I got the firewall loaded up with cables, pedals and booster:



Now might be a good time to disclose that I had a big job on my neck last year and while I'm thrilled with the results, I do not have complete dexterity like I used to. It doesn't affect my ability to earn a living because um, well, just YouTube "Total Hip Replacement" and you will see that it can be done while wearing [sterile] baseball mitts.

Why do I mention this now? Because I drop stuff. Little stuff usually, sometimes I can't tell whether I'm holding something unless I can see it. Usually it falls on the floor and I can just pick it up. But today I dropped the grommet that the throttle cable passes through at the firewall. I ufcking kid you not, it fell into the doubler that holds the booster, in such a manner that it cannot be retrieved and is now a permanent part of the body :facepalm:.

Soooo, whoever gets the car after me gets a free (albeit useless) SAE socket, AND gets a free (albeit useless) throttle cable grommet .

Next is the master cylinder and remaining brake lines. Hopefully I won't lose the MC somewhere in the chassis .


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Today I did the MC and the rest of the brake lines:

The MC is for a Corrado G60, which I read somewhere works for a 16V Scirocco but is a fraction of the cost only because it the box doesn't have "Scirocco" or "16V" written on it :sly:. We'll see if it works right, but it looks identical and fit perfectly.

I also reworked the engine harness to get rid of the ISV wiring:

The car hasn't had the ISV even since the initial build, but it was admittedly a chore to keep the engine from quitting for the first minute or so...

...until I finally made up a DPR harness and tuned the car right. Now the idle is 1000 warm, 7-800 cold without stalling. Maybe the fresh 9A helps too, the 195,000 mile PL might have been part of the challenge. The PL is in Luke's Passat now and starts and runs perfectly, but his car has all the Motronic goodies to compensate for any stalling tendency the old engine might cause.

Tomorrow I hope to install the ECUs, the engine harness, the coil, and rain tray.

Friday I'll tidy the engine and the mounts, Saturday we're going to the circus, so maybe engine install on Sunday? We'll see.


----------



## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

When you delete circuits, are you just cutting the plugs off and wrapping the excess or are you removing all the way from the ECU plug terminals?

Just wondering....either way :heart: ic: opcorn:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

-camber said:


> When you delete circuits, are you cutting just cutting the plugs off and wrapping the excess or are you removing all the way from the ECU plug terminals?


It depends on my mood. Sometimes I do stuff to a very high standard, often times not...

Anything out of the main harnesses is gone completely, back to the relay panel. For the ISV, I removed the wiring only back to the nearest "Y" in the harness because there are rubber sections glued together which I left alone. It's not perfect, but IMO it's a good compromise.

Today's work:

Monowiper, ECU, knock box, ICM, engine harness, ignition coil, raintray. I like that the car is down to a single vacuum line to the knock box. 

I also blasted and painted the fuel filler pipe so I can get everything into the right rear wheelwell tomorrow.

For now, it's time to fry Mr. Turkey. Fire good.

Happy Thanksgiving Day. I'm alive and that should be enough, although I often forget that .


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Burp. As the Thanksgiving Day of Gratitude gives way to the Black Friday Day of Greed, I'm off to buy more food for today's gathering. We also have a new flatscreen TV coming to replace our perfectly good 30" tube unit, which is causing us increasingly ruthless ridicule among The Jone's, with whom, as some of you might suspect, we are acquainted.

As for the car, I got the filler pipe, vent pipes and the anti-gravity valve installed:

Many people think the valve is a _gravity _valve, but it's actually an _anti-gravity_ valve, and is the secret to the light weight of A1 cars, without which they would be just as heavy other cars :sly:.

Then I installed the plastic cover:

The top and edges are sealed to minimize water ingress, and the bottom is open to allow water egress. The rubber filler hose was $20 on-line and is for marine applications, which apparently requires higher standards than land use. The hose is quite thick, incorporates a spiral steel wire like one would find in a vacuum cleaner hose, and will obviously outlive us all. It fits perfectly :thumbup:.

Lastly the fuel door:


Next is the engine and its mounts, which just need to be cleaned up, and a new valve cover gasket (the old one seeps)

Adios


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Burp.


Concise, timely, and accurate. :thumbup:



echassin said:


> ...We also have a new flatscreen TV coming to replace our perfectly good 30" tube unit, which is causing us increasingly ruthless ridicule among The Jone's, with whom, as some of you might suspect, we are acquainted.


heh. Procedure:

1] Acquire an empty gas cylinder (as for welding), say about 25- pound size, some random brass fittings, a few feet of 1/4" ID aquarium air tubing, and a couple of candles. Maybe a little faux-walnut cart big enough to carry the gas cylinder, some chain, and a couple of eyebolt/ hooks.

2] Take the cylinder to a machine shop; have them *bleed off all gas pressure,* then drill 2x 1/2" holes discretely into the base where they won't easily be seen.

3] Sand blast the cylinder and prep for painting, not *too* smooth, then prime it... um, not red like a fire extinguisher but not too "natural" either; say a shade kind of like in the realm of radioactive- lizard Green. Do that, then in a highly-contrasting color; stencil "NOX" on the cylinder.

4] Pick through the brass fittings, build something at the cylinder neck that looks credible, attach with melted candle wax (I bet you were wondering about that). It doesn't have to hold, just needs to look... damnit, what's that term? OEM- credible? I heard that somewhere... :screwy:

5] Run the aquarium air line behind the new TV. Secure the gas cylinder to the cart with chain & eyebolts (OSHA- credible). Show off to the Jone'ses, and be sure to tell them that you also have a sound system upgrade on order, pending getting the waiver from USGS for setting off every seismic detector within 100 miles. That should make the Jone'ses feel all warm and fuzzy about local property values.

6] Grin like a fiend and have a pink drink. You just learned how to fix a loose aux belt with a flip flop.

:laugh:


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

(It's good to see that IceyKarl is back on his meds...)

Well E., one of the things that occurs to me, over the course of this thread of yours, is that eventually we get to see every single bit of a Scirocco...

Thx dude!


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

TBerk said:


> (It's good to see that IceyKarl is back *off* his meds...)


FTFY. I do better outside the box than inside the cage. Convention doesn't suit me, it's hard to get anything useful done.



TBerk said:


> Well E., one of the things that occurs to me, over the course of this thread of yours, is that eventually we get to see every single bit of a Scirocco...
> 
> Thx dude!


That ^, :thumbup: Albeit, it is only a Mk2.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> Convention doesn't suit me, it's hard to get anything useful done.


Must...resist...obvious...retort... *slaps self on cheek*

Anyhoo, today we tried out this antique massive waffle iron P inherited, and I carb loaded big time (no, I didn't run a marathon...)

After that I slogged into the garage, changed the valve cover gaskets and tidied up the 9A:

It was already pretty clean because I swapped it in just last winter and hardly drove the car after that because of the shame that was my ruined paint job.

Then I installed the engine by lifting the front of the car by the tiptissery:


The rear tiptissery bars stayed pretty vertical, minimizing strain:


Plenty of room:




Upsy-daisy:




And finally, tiptissery is off:


Tomorrow I hafta tidy up the basement and start installing/hooking everything up in the bay. The downpipe also needs to be blasted and painted before I can install the exhaust.


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> We also have a new flatscreen TV coming to replace our *perfectly good 30" tube unit*, which is causing us increasingly ruthless ridicule among The Jone's, with whom, as some of you might suspect, we are acquainted.


Jeezus.

Brief transcript of conversation between The Jones' and their Other Friends:

OF: "So where are you guys hanging out on Black Friday?"
TJ: "We're making another trip to The Land That Time Forgot."
OF: "Oh, you mean The Chassin's?"

Uploading all these pics on 28.8k must be a real bitch, too.
<snicker>



echassin said:


> Many people think the valve is a _gravity _valve, but it's actually an _anti-gravity_ valve, and is the secret to the light weight of A1 cars, without which they would be just as heavy other cars :sly:.


:laugh: cute.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> Must...resist...obvious...retort... *slaps self on cheek*


I gotcher back covered, E. Next time you feel this strongly about something that you hafta slap yourself on the cheek, gimme a call; we'll talk about it and stuff.

Then I'll call P and tell her to polish up the baseball bat. Gotta be better than a mere slap.

:laugh:

So... what was the retort, and why didn't you tort it right the first time?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> So... what was the retort, and why didn't you tort it right the first time?


You're a guy who loves a layup, are you now just being obtuse? The implication was that unconventionality yields high productivity...


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

[I[/I]Jeez, Icyone...don't make this too easy for E, now I gotta do some biatch slapping here.
E's belief of getting off one's keister daily so as to get some work done is a valid one, and to use his line...
"How do ya eat an elephant? One bite at a time."
S...t really gits done when ya make that a motto. And we can all learn from it. Somedays, he and I work well together especially when we build off our strenths and that motto of his has helped me shore up my weak spots.

So... go wash that dang car of yers that ya want to unload, post some pics...and play and work nice.



Now who wants chicken and waffles?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Getting close to first [hopefully] start.

Steering column (and therefore ignition switch) are in:


Shifter hooked up:

Astute observers will note that the steering u-joint boot is not new. The NOS one I ordered is apparently taking its sweet ufcking time getting here and I wanna keep moving so I installed another "good" used one I had. Has anyone noticed an increase in online shopping/shipping snafus like I have? I never had a problem for years and I've had five or so in the past few months 

Engine harnesses and various cables hooked up:


Exhaust:



The TT stainless cleaned up nicely but it does have some stains on it, so I wouldn't necessarily call it "stainless" . I think the VW downpipe is stainless also because only the manifold had a little rust on it :thumbup:

I bridged the fuel feed and return lines with a piece of hose to fill the tank, jump the fuel pump relay, and check the new line/DIY flares. I was very relieved that there were no leaks :


Tomorrow is the radiator and CIS, then turn the key and see what happens.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Alrighty, it runs!



*Insert throaty 16V sound*

The fuel accumulator is spraying fuel through a pinhole that I must've blasted through while decrusting the thing. As is typical for the 16V, the thing is different from the 8V cars, and I can't locate the correct part.

Does anyone have a new source or a good used one? I would prefer not to use the incorrect part, not delete it altogether, etc...


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> The fuel accumulator is spraying fuel through a pinhole that I must've blasted through while decrusting the thing. As is typical for the 16V, the thing is different from the 8V cars, and I can't locate the correct part.
> 
> Does anyone have a new source or a good used one? I would prefer not to use the incorrect part, not delete it altogether, etc...


I got the part number 853133441 from the Jim Ellis VW website. 

http://www.jimellisvwparts.com/prod...lator-FUEL-ACCUMULATOR/5322561/853133441.html

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro....H0.X853133441+.TRS0&_nkw=853133441+&_sacat=0

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thank you for that, I should've come back sooner and posted that I got one from PartsPlace for only *cough* *gasp* dollars.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

As the Holiday Party Season gets into gear and we anticipate numerous rugrats wanting to play contact Ping Pong, or contact Foosball, or any other contact sport they can come up with, storage of the body panels in the basement is becoming an issue, so I figured I'd install them onto the shell.

Today I got the doors and fenders on and aligned:

With the two 16Vs next to each other, I can see that mine's bodywork still isn't quite as nice as P's, but it's close, plus I haven't sanded/buffed yet, so we'll see how it all turns out. It's definitely much better than what I did four years ago, and IMO it was OK even then.

First slather everything with Cosmoline:

Any sensitive areas are etch primed, primed, painted, and Cosmolined, so hopefully it'll all last a long time.

The fenders got some sealant only where the factory used it:



This seems to have gotten the car this far nicely, so I didn't change anything.

The Cosmoline spreads well over areas that are missed, and it finds itself as if it has a surfactant in it, which I like:


Next is the hood and the hatch.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

That battery is not correct. Points deducted.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> That battery is not correct. Points deducted.


Good eye. It's smaller, and therefore lighter, and it was dirt cheap, so it is_ totally_ correct in my book . I'm sure it'll last several months at least, given the quality.

I do a little every day on the car, Friday I got the hood and the hatch on and aligned:

The badges are pressed into the correct little clips, which I have been accumulating from various donor cars.

Yesterday P and I roped in the rear glass, and I tidied up the wing, but that's all we had time for cuz we spent most of the day at a very lavish Bar Mitzvah for a friend's son.

P, not being Jewish, was hilarious as she exited the service and saw folks in the lobby with large trays with small glasses of wine, which were to sanctify the event. P didn't question for one moment why a Synagogue would be offering shots and knocked back a few before horrified onlookers put two and two together, realized she was a Nordic Pagan and politely stopped her. As is her style, P just giggled and didn't miss a beat (now that I think of it, I don't recall ever seeing her blush...)

This morning I got the hatch lifts installed, the wing on and sealed, and the latch installed and sealed:
 
Astute observers will note that there's white isht falling and accumulating, something us Mediteranean types _never _approve of.

I still have to run the hatch wiring and install the license plate lights, but that'll need to wait because we're buying and setting up the Christmas tree today.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

echassin said:


> P, not being Jewish, was hilarious as she exited the service and saw folks in the lobby with large trays with small glasses of wine, which were to sanctify the event. P didn't question for one moment why a Synagogue would be offering shots and knocked back a few before horrified onlookers put two and two together, realized she was a Nordic Pagan and politely stopped her. As is her style, P just giggled and didn't miss a beat (now that I think of it, I don't recall ever seeing her blush...)


Blush?
What for, would I blush?

On the way to the event, the boys were in the back seat asking about religion. Me, knowing so much, answered. I told them to expect an event that took about one hour, because, in my eyes, and let's face it, in the eyes of most everybody, any religious event that takes more than one hour falls into the fundamentalist/religiously fanatical category (no disrespect to any churchgoers out there). 
This here event took one hour...and a half!! 

I figured the shots were kinda my Earthly reward for being good.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> ...we spent most of the day at a very lavish Bar Mitzvah for a friend's son.
> 
> P, not being Jewish, was hilarious as she exited the service and saw folks in the lobby with large trays with small glasses of wine, which were to sanctify the event. P didn't question for one moment why a Synagogue would be offering shots and knocked back a few before horrified onlookers put two and two together, realized she was a Nordic Pagan...


So her fashion choice was "other than Dirndl"? Some attempt at stealth Aryan? What?



pchassin said:


> Blush? What for, would I blush?


Perhaps some of my facility at phrasing used as language & accent is rubbing off on you. Hmm... E, don't take that wrong... :laugh:



pchassin said:


> On the way to the event, the boys were in the back seat asking about religion. Me, knowing so much, answered... any religious event that takes more than one hour falls into the fundamentalist/religiously fanatical category (no disrespect to any churchgoers out there).
> This here event took one hour...and a half!!
> 
> I figured the shots were kinda my Earthly reward for being good.


Hell, and at least there was a bar.

Needs work but I think you could found a religion off that; makes as much sense as most. :beer:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

the Church of the Free Electron sends Solace & Understanding, esp in these potentially perilous times, what with frozen stuff falling from the Heavens and everything. 

btw- it is possible to exist and and endure with a Battery that might otherwise be 'less-than', given a good path for Current Flow. 

Big juicy cables, shiny metal to metal contacts having at least a bit of anti-corrosional treatment (we haven't spoken much on the Starter to Block Foundation of Continued Happiness in the past), & a health circuit, over all, from Alternator, though Battery, Chassis, and the Long Block... 

Last thing; Fermentation, in Moderation... Ex·al·ta·tion!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Hmmm, religion certainly seems to come in many varieties. Are the Church of the Free Electron, and the cars it represents, valid tax deductions? 

The hatch doesn't have a lot left in it but it does have the defogger and license plate lights, so I pulled the wires for those last night and got the license plate lights installed:

In keeping with bringing the car up a notch (while not going _too_ crazy...), I did get new lenses from Mk1AutoHaus for only *gasp* *grasps chest* dollars. The old ones were OK, but cracked and frosted. That dot of silicone plugs a small hole, which I don't know why I wanted to plug _that_ one, given that there are many other holes in the hatch :screwy:.

Then I was gonna install the headliner today in order to move closer to breaking--er--_installing_ the windshield:

It's serviceable, but I'm tired of too much patina, so I ordered one from Tech53 (Fredybender) as a Christmas present to myself (I don't know what to call all the _other_ isht I bought for myself...)

I'll find other stuff to do in the meantime.


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## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Shipping it out today Eric :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> So her fashion choice was "other than Dirndl"? Some attempt at stealth Aryan? What?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No Dirndl; LBD as always, which many already know she rocks :heart:. And no, stealth is not her style...

Please don't rub one off on me 

And you weren't listening: it wasn't a bar, P only_ thought_ it was


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

fredybender said:


> Shipping it out today Eric :thumbup:


And BAM! That's what I'm talkin' aboot! (Typo intentionally Canadian sounding)


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## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

echassin said:


>


Good move on the installation order. Installing the hatch then the struts before the glass......
Well, that hatch will come up so fast it'll clip your jaw before you can move.

BTW, red wouldn't be your favorite color, would it?


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Yesterday I got an invite to see a bevy of Deusenbergs, Daytonas, Lamborghinis, Ferraris, etc... here: http://www.watchprosite.com/page-wf....93/pi-5623668/, and today I found myself feeling like the Stepchild is quite the humble automobile, but whatever, it's mine and that's that.

I received the new fuel pressure accumulator and the box definitety said CISe, and the car runs great, but it's larger size like the old ones, not smaller like 16Vs usually have:

There's a plastic collar that acts as an adapter when one uses the smaller accumulator, you just remove that and the larger accumulator fits right in perfectly.

With the car running well and the fan cycling normally, I was feeling pretty smug until I noticed the license plates lights were on, even though the lights were off and the headlight switch wasn't even on the car . The lights came on when I lifted the hatch, and went out when I closed it :facepalm:. Long story short (no pun intended), the lights' output pin E1 on the back of the relay panel was shorting to ground _ and_ the hatch wasn't adequately grounding through its hinges. I swapped in a spare fuse box in no time (there's not much electrical system left), and I ran a ground wire directly to the shell, and now all's well.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I installed the grill and the modified headlight assemblies:

This took all of 15 minutes, so what else, you may wonder, did I do on the car today"

Well, astute observers will note in the pic above the hint of a puddle peaking out from under the driver side of the engine bay. That's gas from the body of the DPR (not the viton seals ). I ordered a new one for $436, which is the best I could find. I'm super happy, because the ufcking thing wasn't leaking yesterday, and now under the strain of sitting there in a warm garage doing nothing, it leaks.

Why?

Because 16 ufcking V.


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## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

Geezz$$$


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I'm sorry this is too late for you:

This has the correct Fuel Distributer and DPR and is new:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-BOSCH-F...ket-Housing-/262751403607?hash=item3d2d343e57

The airflow sensor is incorrect but the rest is correct. 

This seller has these in stock periodically. If this one gets sold, he can get more (or could). The price they end up selling for is usually less than the cost of a rebuilt fuel distributer.

So far he hasn't had the correct airflow sensor, but 2 out of 3 ain't bad. 

Good to keep in mind for the future. I like to stock up on spares.

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

My DPR order didn't go through, and the next best price I can find is from ECS tuning, $516 . The one above ^^^ unfortunately is sold. 

Anyone have any leads or a good used one?


----------



## Gromel (May 12, 2012)

Perfect time to install cis-lambda with a innovative wideband 02, forget cis-e your car will run much much better

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5635827-Tuning-CIS-using-a-wideband


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> My DPR order didn't go through, and the next best price I can find is from ECS tuning, $516 . The one above ^^^ unfortunately is sold.
> 
> Anyone have any leads or a good used one?


Relisted:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-BOSCH-F...Selector-Socket-Housing-/262758292569?vxp=mtr

Or you could go CIS Lambda with wideband 02 sensor like Gromel suggests.

-Old Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

You could ask the seller in Spain to sell it to you as buy it now to keep others from bidding against you. 


If you just do an eBay search on the DPR, 026133482, you get new and used ones from $78.00 to $690.00 (including the whole kit & caboodle above):


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=026133482&_sop=15


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Or here's a used Fuel Distributer with DPR attached:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VW-Fuel-Dis...ash=item2ca6637e84:g:YZMAAOSwnipWXKS2&vxp=mtr

It's guaranteed.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I feel a mixture of shame and gratitude at how easily you came up with so many better options, whereas I only came up with a few very expensive options. I have another one ordered ($434 ) but if it falls through, I'll get one of the above:thumbup:

In order to inch closer to getting the windshield off of my to-do list (hopefully without having "get another windshield" appear on my to-do list :sly, I installed the new headliner from Fredybender (Tech53). It's a new offering, so any problems I list here are being addressed for later versions. My goal was to have *zero* wrinkles in the final result, and I did achieve that, but it was quite a challenge. This is in no way a disparaging review of Tech53, which offers options for our cars that are completely unavailable anywhere else, and like anything made by someone who cares, the products can be expected to continuously improve with time :thumbup:

So: off we go!

First, the headliner is folded for shipping and gives the initial impression of being permanently marred, but gentle use of a heat gun when the install is complete made any residual marks completely disappear.

The headliner install begins with anchoring it to the prongs along the hatch edge, and then anchoring it to the prongs just behind the sunroof. This headliner was 3/8" too small to reach the front prongs, so I bent the front prongs back all the way and folded them down so they are effectively 3/8" more rearward:


The rear edge of the material barely reached the hatch lip, but I heated the area and was able to close this gap completely (*phew*):


Next, the material barely reached the quarter window lip:


I undid the two most lateral of the hatch lip prongs to allow the material out of the corners of the roof and reach the quarter window edge easily:

The compromise is not obvious, but on a correct headliner, the material is puckered tightly into the corners of the roof.

The material barely reached the bottom of the C-pillar, but the speaker carpet does cover this edge fully:

The smooth area in the material and the nick are from heating and pulling hard, but cannot be discerned easily in real life. In order to keep the contact cement from yielding as hot weather tries to shrink the material, I superglued the vinyl edge to the steel.

The next challenge was the B-pillars, the material is too far back to reach the door edge:

I solved this by simply cutting off this material, and I'll extend the B-pillar vinyl a bit higher than normal to reach the headliner.

Now this was scary:

This is the windshield edge, and even vigorous traction wasn't enough. At this point I called Fredy to ask permission to heat, pull, do whatever it takes, and if I failed, get another headliner. After a hearty "go for it!", I cut the sunroof area to get some release (that's what she said), and gently heated the door areas to allow some stretch.

It took me eight hours but when it's all said and done, not bad for a 1st run product:



As you can see, I also got the sunroof installed and working well. This is my 3rd tilt sunroof and I'm not nearly as bad at it each time I do it .

My back is sore from all the pulling, so the A and B-pillars will wait till tomorrow.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> I feel a mixture of shame and gratitude at how easily you came up with so many better options, whereas I only came up with a few very expensive options. I have another one ordered ($434 ) but if it falls through, I'll get one of the above:thumbup:


I squish the part numbers together when I search. I take out all spaces and dashes. That works 99% of the time including on the VW official parts website. 

It's only if I don't get results that I put spaces or dashes in.

I used to do parts ordering as an "additional duty" in the USAF and later as a military contractor. I wasn't a Supply troop, but was the designated guy in the shop to order parts from Supply.

-Old Eric


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

The headliner looks great by the way.

-Old Eric


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> Now might be a good time to disclose that I had a big job on my neck last year and while I'm thrilled with the results, I do not have complete dexterity like I used to. It doesn't affect my ability to earn a living because um, well, just YouTube "Total Hip Replacement" and you will see that it can be done while wearing [sterile] baseball mitts.
> 
> Why do I mention this now? Because I drop stuff. Little stuff usually, sometimes I can't tell whether I'm holding something unless I can see it. Usually it falls on the floor and I can just pick it up. But today I dropped the grommet that the throttle cable passes through at the firewall. I ufcking kid you not, it fell into the doubler that holds the booster, in such a manner that it cannot be retrieved and is now a permanent part of the body :facepalm:.


Sorry to hear this, it must be frustrating.  Hopefully it doesn't happen at work, and let's be thankful you don't work in a nitroglycerin factory.
I finally got around to sending you a present. Your post above is what prompted it (you'll see).
Don't be nervous about opening it, even though it looks like a pipe bomb. Yeah I know, it's me we're talking about so.. that _would_ have been a fair concern. :laugh:



echassin said:


> Good eye. It's smaller, and therefore lighter, and it was dirt cheap, so it is_ totally_ correct in my book .


Just a good-natured jab. I have an Autozone battery in my car at the moment, which is arguably only a slight step up from the Walmart house brand.

It wasn't really about the battery anyway, but rather the irony. Surely that wasn't lost on you. 



echassin said:


> ...so I bent the front prongs back all the way...


Yeah I bet you did, Buffalo Bob... :laugh:



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> The headliner looks great by the way.
> -Old Eric


It sure does. :thumbup:
So I suppose you (French-E) provided Fred some feedback that these need to be cut with just a little extra fat on them? (or, he'll likely just read all about it here. Hi Fred )



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I squish the part numbers together when I search. I take out all spaces and dashes. That works 99% of the time including on the VW official parts website.
> It's only if I don't get results that I put spaces or dashes in.


That has always been my strategy as well. :thumbup:
Must be an Eric thing. :beer:
Not sure we should be giving away all our secrets though


----------



## rabfan (Feb 7, 2005)

Nice work on the headliner! That looked like a hell of a job.


----------



## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

We did this two years ago with a replacement headliner...btw my wife did it....she´s unbelieveble good at this...her first headliner ever...I do not have enough patience fpor this I think....so I can say you have done a really good job. Our headliner was custom made for us with black alcantara-ish stuff....a little bit thicker than the original and a little bit more material to cut off after the glueing....what a pain in the a** to fit the seals over this thicker material...but my wife did this without any wrinkles. 



So now she gets all the leatherworking jobs from this day on...


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

All Eyez on me said:


> We did this two years ago with a replacement headliner...btw my wife did it....she´s unbelieveble good at this...her first headliner ever...I do not have enough patience fpor this I think....so I can say you have done a really good job. Our headliner was custom made for us with black alcantara-ish stuff....a little bit thicker than the original and a little bit more material to cut off after the glueing....what a pain in the a** to fit the seals over this thicker material...but my wife did this without any wrinkles.
> 
> 
> 
> So now she gets all the leatherworking jobs from this day on...


You have a good wife there, Sir.


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback Eric, We thought that with taking OEM pattern and adding an inch or two, we would be good... 
Looks like we need better patterns: I didn't get pics through e-mail, but have a good general idea, on what areas need more material, and in which direction.
If you have a chance to send the pictures again, that would be great: [email protected] is the e-mail addy

Cheers!
Fred


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

It's all good Fredy. I knew I had one of, if not the first S2 headliner, and as you can see, the final result is great.

The pics in here are the pics I sent, but I forgot the "-" in your email address, which ismwhy it ended up elsewhere.

The changes I would make:

The distance beween the bows needs to increase 1/4 to 3/8". I should've measured the distance on the car for you .

The B-pillar material needs to move forward about 1-2", and the front edge needs to be extended about two inches.

After that, every edge needs another 1-2 inches. Most of this would be trimmed off, butis needed so the hand has something to pull while gluing, to get the wrinkles out. The material is thicker and better than OEM, but it requires some serious traction in some areas, along with heat, to get it to deform around corners and such.


----------



## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

pchassin said:


> You have a good wife there, Sir.


I know.  That´s why I married her.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Who's to say she didn't think the same of you, and it is in fact _you_ that _she_ married 

Today is a good day for the Stepchild. The new DPR is out for delivery and that should wrap up the running gear, plus:

Windshield is in and intact (*phew*: that was my last one). Monowiper is done.

Appearance of the headliner where it meets the seal :

The sunroof crank cover is now glued up, I only saw the sag once I loaded the picture.

Rear of the interior is done:


Carpets and door openings are done:

Inner seals, outer seals, inner sills, latch pins. The outer sills go on after the sideskirts.

Remaining tasks:

Dash, console, steering wheel/column, seats.
Install everything on the doors
Tailights/rear panel cover
Suspension/brakes/wheels/tires
Fender liners/body kit (I have to sand the body kit with 400 grit and paint it, so that'll need to wait for warmer weather)
Bumpers
1200 sand/buff/paint repairs/wax


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The piles of parts in the basement are slowly disappearing .

DIY dash and center console are in:

The washer switch was intermittent before and isn't anymore, but in a bad way . The right turn signal switch is also intermittent. The stalks are original with almost 200,000 miles, so if anyone is willing to sell me another set of stalks, LMK.

Here's the current layout of the center console:

At first glance when one looks into the car, all's well, but astute observers will quickly note that there's a blower motor switch and a heater valve, and that's it. The rest is deleted, which BTW makes installation much simpler. Obviously this isn't for everyone, but I've lived happily with the car this way for a few years.

Front seats are in:


Tails and license holder are on and sealed:


Finally, the $436 DPR arrived, and at first I was concerned that it was black like Motronic DPRs, not light gray like CISe DPRs:

But the part # cross references correctly and it adjusted to .010 Amps no problem, and the car runs perfectly :thumbup:

Next is put everything into the doors.


----------



## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

:thumbup:

Could be done for Christmas?

Would be a holiday miracle.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Nah. Even if I could finish it that fast, I wouldn't drive it. These VWs are a lot of fun, but I don't wanna die getting crushed by an out-of-control bohemoth.

Plus during the run-up to Christmas, I don't work too hard.


----------



## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

Take your time.

1. It´s a hobby...so do only work for fun

2. A good car is like a good wine....it ripens over years. :beer:


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

Amen


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## PoorHouse (Nov 8, 2002)

All Eyez on me said:


> 2. A good car is like a good wine....it ripens over years. :beer:



:thumbup:


----------



## Hoffa (Jun 7, 2001)

I just found Eric's red-headed stepchild's cousin on eBay...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291971562446?rmvSB=true
Thought of this thread as I scrolled through the resto pictures...:wave:


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Yeeeeah, I almost bought that BMW.... but it was red, so, no.

That and after looking at the pictures, being amazed, and noticing- "looks like Rear Drum Brakes"... Not That Theres Anything Wrong With That.


----------



## J. Daniel (Dec 3, 1999)

TBerk said:


> Yeeeeah, I almost bought that BMW.... but it was red, so, no.
> 
> That and after looking at the pictures, being amazed, and noticing- "looks like Rear Drum Brakes"... Not That Theres Anything Wrong With That.


Yeah, an amazing restoration and the engine upgrade would give it power to match the looks. But, the rear brakes are discs. Only the rear parking brakes are drums. Just like the original Porsche 911.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Except for the bottom, which oddly retains the grime from years of leaks, that BMW is done at a _much_higher level than the Stepchild.

I did half of one door after work yesterday and was all like, meh, I wanna watch a bunch of Sopranos with the Missiz.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

OK, doors are done. I put a lot of effort this time around into producing even door gaps, nice closing action, etc...:



(The thing on the the driver door below the handle is a pad I taped there to keep from dinging my door against P's 16V's mirror)

As for the seals, I have a few in need of replacement. I know VR sells them, but I prefer good OEM over great aftermarket. I know this is a longshot, but if any of you have these items on your kitchen counter and you're about to throw them away, shoot me a PM:

Passenger vent window seal
Driver door frame seal (the L-shape one that runs along the top and the B-pillar and captures the glass in the "up" position)
Both window scrapers.

I've installed many door membranes using whatever tape or glue I have on hand, some successful, others not, but this time I used the correct goo (butyl tape?):

I like it. The goo is strong, yet can be cut if needed to service the door, and you just push the goo back together to reapply the membrane (I know this works because I kept having to pull the membrane off to do stuff in the door, even though there's almost nothing frigging_ left_ in the doors  :

The door cards are on, which means the interior of the car is done:



There are many things I like about this car, but my favorite might be the DIY dash . The manual window door cards are from one of the donors that came through here, and they had these cracked chrome strips on them that P's door cards do not have. I cut the strips out but that left big troughs, so I glued in 1/8" welding rods, painted them black, and the effect is nice enough.

Remaining To-Do list (this is more for me, to set the order right, pardon the dry reading):

Refinish and install rear backing plates/stub axles, rear rotors/calipers/ebrakes. 3 days.
Refinish and install control arms/K-bar, axles, spindle/strut assemblies, front rotors/calipers, bleed brakes. 6 days.
Sand entire kit with 400. 10days.
Sand and buff entire body, mark necessary paint repairs. 9 days.
Body paint repairs, then add flex agent, then paint body kit. 1 day.
Install body kit and fender liners. 1 day.
Touch up and install bumpers. 1 day.
Have tires mounted and install. 1 day.

Total 32 days (not consecutive, but the car should easily be done by Spring)


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Work continues at a Holiday Pace:
I got the rear backing plates and stub axles done yesterday:

Enjoy my outstanding photography skills .

This morning I got a Christmas present from Yet-Another-Eric Dieznutz (Thanks Eric!):

It's a wire pulling/dropped part retrieval tool kit, which consists of fiberglass rods with brass threaded fittings at each end, plus a variety of working fixtures. Far more elegant than the "tools" I've been using till now (I'm using the word "tools" _very_ charitably).

Then I did the rear rotors:


Updated To-Do list, I get to remove work done, but forgot the rear struts, so still 32 (nonconsecutive) days:

Refinish and install rear calipers/ebrakes, rear struts. 3 days.
Refinish and install control arms/K-bar, axles, spindle/strut assemblies, front rotors/calipers, bleed brakes. 6 days.
Sand entire kit with 400. 10days.
Sand and buff entire body, mark necessary paint repairs. 9 days.
Body paint repairs, then add flex agent, then paint body kit. 1 day.
Install body kit and fender liners. 1 day.
Touch up and install bumpers. 1 day.
Have tires mounted and install. 1 day.

Total 32 days


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## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

You have the backing plates wrong sided...so the brake will not fit.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The calipers do fit (our other cars are the same), but the shields are indeed inside out.

I don't think the rear shields should face away from the rotor. I agree in front that the shields should cup over the CV joints so if an outer boot breaks, the shield catches the grease (I've had this happen). For the rear, the way I did it makes some more sense to me...

...but likely makes no difference.

I've thought about omitting the rear shields, since there's no grease to catch. In support of my argument, I present to you my favorite car ever, made to run 240mph in the rain. Note at 2 minutes, no shields:





Let the debates begin


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

+1 for no shields. I'm not running them up front to help radiate heat away from the rotors. So far so good after several track days and thousands of street miles. I'll admit I don't understand the point of them on the street. 

-Alex


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

echassin said:


> The calipers do fit (our other cars are the same), but the shields are indeed inside out.
> 
> I don't think the rear shields should face away from the rotor. I agree in front that the shields should cup over the CV joints so if an outer boot breaks, the shield catches the grease (I've had this happen). For the rear, the way I did it makes some more sense to me...
> 
> ...


So, you are probably a fan of the movie_ Le Mans _with Steve McQueen.

I saw it in the theater with a friend and later on TV. My friend was a budding car nut from the promised land, California. His dad had a Rover P6 or 2000 that he was going to get when he started driving. He regaled me with tales of the Rover's safety. Supposedly people drove them off cliffs and survived. 

The thing that I remember most about _Le Mans _is that when Steve is driving his 911, the wheels look like they are going backwards. 

I also like the Gulf livery. My favorite race car is the Ford Gt-40 MK II (1966) in Gulf livery, but I'd take a 917. 

_Road & Track_ had an article about a guy who had a street legal 917. I think the article was in the '70s or early '80s. As I recall, the 917 wasn't legal in his country, but was street legal in a southern U.S. state. I think it was Georgia. So this 917 had U.S. license plates. 

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> _Road & Track_ had an article about a guy who had a street legal 917. I think the article was in the '70s or early '80s. As I recall, the 917 wasn't legal in his country, but was street legal in a southern U.S. state. I think it was Georgia. So this 917 had U.S. license plates.
> 
> -Old Eric


One of the most famous 917s is #021, because there are two of them! They're both blends of 917-012 and 917-021, initially the result of a wreck of 021 at LeMans in 1970, followed by a hasty factory rebuild onto the 012 frame. One of these spent time in private hands as a street legal Supercar in Germany. Can you imagine a cannonball run on the Autobahn in one of those? Man, that would be soooo on my bucket list. In fact, maybe it would inadvertently end up being the _last_ item on my bucket list :sly:.

One of the 021's: 




I consider this one a bit more legit, it has the frame of 917-012, but has all of the stuff from 021 including the repaired body and has a long racing history.

The other is nicer, but the body is new from new molds, as is a lot of the rest of it. Nevertheless, some consider this one the "real" 021 because the frame was actually at LeMans in 1970, although nothing else was:





Both of these cars are worth millions of dollars and are raced in the vintage classes .

Rear brake parts are drying, installation to follow later :wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, rear brakes are done except for bleeding, which'll have to wait till the fronts are on:





The calipers are from a later car, so the e-brake is a straight shot along the bottom of the trailing arm, and the hard line stays on top. The complex S2 bracketry is all gone, and the whole setup is held with a single heavy-duty zip-tie.

While checking my Bentleys for various info, I discovered that even VW doesn't know which way to put the backing plates :

Inside out:


Outside in:


Updated to-do list:

Refinish and install rear struts. 2 days.
Refinish and install control arms/K-bar, axles, spindle/strut assemblies, front rotors/calipers, bleed brakes. 6 days.
Sand entire kit with 400. 10days.
Sand and buff entire body, mark necessary paint repairs. 9 days.
Body paint repairs, then add flex agent, then paint body kit. 1 day.
Install body kit and fender liners. 1 day.
Touch up and install bumpers. 1 day.
Have tires mounted and install. 1 day.

Total 31 days


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> This morning I got a Christmas present from Yet-Another-Eric Dieznutz (Thanks Eric!)


You are welcome, Sir, hopefully you'll find it handy. I'm glad it made it there before Christmas :grinsanta:
One more tip I forgot to mention: even though the joints are soft brass they can still scratch, so I wrap them with say blue tape if I'm fishing the rod through an area I care about cosmetically. :thumbup:

To add my $0.02 to the 'brake shield' discussion...
Not to be Capt. Obvious here, but these were as much "splash shields" to keep water spray off the rotor and pads, I think.
At least, when I had DD's that didn't have shields (read: rotted away), my wet braking in the rain was crap. The first pump or two were needed just to squeegee/steam the water away, so that the third pump could actually start braking.

However...
Given that most of us don't drive our prized Mk1/Mk2 possessions in the rain anymore anyway, a splash shield is a moot point.
So I say, "delete away" if it pleases you. :beer:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> I present to you my favorite car ever [917/K], made to run 240mph in the rain. Note at 2 minutes, no shields:


Oh you'll really like one of Matthew's Christmas presents then. 
But I can't show it to you for a couple more days because... well, it's wrapped already.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> Oh you'll really like one of Matthew's Christmas presents then.
> But I can't show it to you for a couple more days because... well, it's wrapped already.


Hmmm... I'm gonna guess it's a miniature 917K in Gulf livery?

I got the rear struts done today:


Anybody know where to get new front caliper carriers? I found rear carriers, and fronts for everything except a Scirocco 16V. Figures.

Each of mine has one pin slider hole that is so loose I think that might be why the right caliper got hung up on the way to Cincy a few years back. It's not the pins themselves, it's the carriers.

Updated to-do list:

Refinish and install control arms/K-bar, axles, spindle/strut assemblies, front rotors/calipers, bleed brakes. 6 days.
Sand entire kit with 400. 10days.
Sand and buff entire body, mark necessary paint repairs. 9 days.
Body paint repairs, then add flex agent, then paint body kit. 1 day.
Install body kit and fender liners. 1 day.
Touch up and install bumpers. 1 day.
Have tires mounted and install. 1 day.

Total 29 days


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## 20v_boost (Jan 29, 2002)

Good news. You don't need new carriers. One bore is supposed to be larger than the other. I recently re-built mine and powder coated them. If you clean the bores out completely and re-pack with the right hi-temp grease and install new boots you'll be good to go. I made various tools to get the years of baked grease off. Mostly sticks with fine steel wool and lots of WD-40. You could see the factory machining marks when you're done. I think the reason one is so loose is to account for temperature variances between the parts.

I really enjoy this thread. Thanks for all the updates and merry Christmas .


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

What a Slacker.

This guy never gets aaaanything done... pfht..


(Go an hug yer loved ones. Go. Right now... Everybody. )


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> What a Slacker.
> 
> This guy never gets aaaanything done... pfht..
> 
> ...


We're going away next week so I really _will_ be slacking 



20v_boost said:


> Good news. You don't need new carriers. One bore is supposed to be larger than the other. I recently re-built mine and powder coated them. If you clean the bores out completely and re-pack with the right hi-temp grease and install new boots you'll be good to go. I made various tools to get the years of baked grease off. Mostly sticks with fine steel wool and lots of WD-40. You could see the factory machining marks when you're done. I think the reason one is so loose is to account for temperature variances between the parts.
> 
> I really enjoy this thread. Thanks for all the updates and merry Christmas .


I'm glad the thread is enjoyable, and Merry Christmas to you and everyone else too. Man, the stuff you know! I simply would've cursed the new carriers for having the same problem .

Control arms and K-bar are on:


I cut off the sway bar mounts, so the U carriers are early style now:


Updated to-do list:

Refinish and install spindle/strut assemblies, front rotors/calipers, bleed brakes. 5 days.
Sand entire kit with 400. 10days.
Sand and buff entire body, mark necessary paint repairs. 9 days.
Body paint repairs, then add flex agent, then paint body kit. 1 day.
Install body kit and fender liners. 1 day.
Touch up and install bumpers. 1 day.
Have tires mounted and install. 1 day.

Total 28 days


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We're back but after eating non-stop for 7 days, I'm kinda listless...

I did get the axles cleaned up and installed:

I redid the boots last winter and they're still looking good, which, if you've ever bought aftermarket CV boots, you know is not a given. I put the 12 point socket and the 30mm socket on the intrument panel so I remember to tighten everything with the wheels on the ground, which, as some of you may know, is also not a given...

Updated work schedule (enough work to make good progress but leaving time for Life):
Friday 12/30: Refurbish front rotors, shields, strut mounts, spring caps.
Saturday 12/31: Refinish struts housing/spindle/hub assemblies.
Sunday 1/1: Refinish front calipers/carriers.
Monday 1/2: mount tires, install front ends, bleed brakes, install rear wheels.
Tuesday 1/3: Install fender liners, install front wheels, car off jackstands, tighten inner and outer CV joint fasteners, test drive.
Wedsnesday 1/4: 400 sand urethane front and rear valences.
Thursday 1/5: 400 sand urethane side skirts.
Friday 1/6: and Saturday 1/7: 400 sand urethane arches.
Sunday 1/8: 400 sand urthane door bottoms and urethane screw covers.
Tuesday 1/10: 1200 sand, buff, wax hood.
Thursday 1/12: 1200 sand, buff, wax roof, cowl. 400 sand rear panel for repaint.
Friday 1/13: 1200 sand, buff, wax doors.
Saturday 1/14: 1200 sand, buff, wax quarter panels.
First warm day: body paint repairs, then add flex agent, paint body kit.
Day after that: install body kit and bumpers.

Total: 16 days.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Happy New Year, relaxing today in my scace, getting some parts onto the car.

Struts assembled with nice parts:


Struts installed:

I didn't take the camber bolts off, so the alignment will hopefully aready be right. The axle nut socket is on the instrument panel so I don't forget to torque the nuts. The new strut mounts are one of the supposed "good" brands but they stretched as soon as I put the car on its wheels during the first build, so I filled in the space under the mounts to reinforce them.

The shields are modified so they can slip over the hubs:


Shield and rotors installed:


I blasted the calipers and carriers:

Oof, what a job _that_ was.

Calipers and carriers primed and painted:

I can't finish the brakes until the caliper rebuild kits arrive (everything on the right is being replaced, I just kept the bits to be sure the new stuff is right).

Updated work schedule (subject to change if laziness creeps in ):

Monday 1/2: mount tires.
Tuesday 1/3: Install fender liners.
Wedsnesday 1/4: 400 sand urethane front and rear valences.
Thursday 1/5: Finish front brakes, bleed brakes, install wheels, car off jackstands.
Friday 1/6: 400 sand urethane side skirts.
Saturday 1/7 and Sunday 1/8: 400 sand urethane arches.
Tuesday 1/10: 400 sand urethane door bottoms and urethane screw covers.
Thursday 1/12: 1200 sand, buff, wax hood.
Friday 1/13: 1200 sand, buff, wax roof, cowl. 400 sand rear panel for repaint. (maybe I'll hold off since it's a Friday the 13th...)
Saturday 1/14: 1200 sand, buff, wax doors.
Sunday 1/15: 1200 sand, buff, wax quarter panels.
First warm day: body paint repairs, then add flex agent, paint body kit.
Day after that: install body kit and bumpers.

Total: 14 days.


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> We're back but after eating non-stop for 7 days, I'm kinda listless...


Food is good.



echassin said:


> I redid the boots last winter and they're still looking good, which, if you've ever bought aftermarket CV boots, you know is not a given. I put the 12 point socket and the 30mm socket on the intrument panel so I remember to tighten everything with the wheels on the ground...


I don't know your preferred procedure on CV's, here's mine (might be helpful):

For the inner bolts; I've found it easiest to do them with the car in the air on jack stands, brake rotors and pads/ carriers ON and functional, rims/tires OFF; you'll need a good set of 3/8" extensions and a helper. Insert at least two lug bolts on each side so the transfer of leverage hub-to-brake rotor is through them rather than through the small rotor locator screw (phillips head). Without the rim the lugs will sink deeper than they should, so estimate rim thickness and screw in lugs to about there. *DO NOT* fully sink, as the lugs may interfere with hub carrier; and after loading it's a good idea to fully rotate the rotor/hub a full 360 degrees to be sure there is no interference.

1] It is possible to access the inner CV bolts 2 or 3 at a time from outside the fender well.

2] I like to load the bolts by hand (so as not to cross-thread), and they can be run down to finger-tight without needing to apply brakes; just rotate the hub by hand at the brake rotor to bring bolt hole into a position where they are most easily reached.

3] After all bolts are loaded and finger-tight; have Helper sit in the car, to firmly apply/ release brakes as needed.

3a] Use your 12pt, then 1 or 2 very long 3/8" extensions [*non- wobbly* tips], then 3/8" or 1/2" ratchet to run bolts in to 'snug' all the way around (will require turning the hub/rotor/axle/CV train a couple of times). Here's a tool link; I don't use HF much but for an infrequently used tool they're OK, and cheap (Made in China!).

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-pc-super-long-extension-set-62121.html

That set is 1x each of 12, 18, & 24" extensions.

4] On DR side the 18" should be about right, for PASS side you'll probably need both 24" + 18"; you need to reach from the CV bolts out to just outboard of the brake rotors. That puts you at a fairly comfortable position (you can sit on a box or stool) and plenty of room to swing the ratchet, as opposed to going under the car and trying to work in the tight space just adjacent to the inner CVs.

5] Switch normal ratchet to torque wrench and repeat sequence for all six bolts on each side. Torque spec is 33 ft/lbs per my Bentley *1980 -'84*, yours might be different.

It's convenient to use the edge of the brake rotor as a brace for the extension, just put a rag on the rotor to pad. Be careful about alignment and minimizing any offset of the tool train, this will help keep the torque fairly accurate. At only 33 ft/lbs you're not putting so much leverage into it as to make the car unstable on jack stands, and 'firm' braking by helper will be sufficient to hold the inner CV (connected to... the brake rotor) as you tighten to spec.


So that's that, inners are done; and you haven't had to get under the car. :thumbup:

On the outer axle nut; definitely want wheels on and car to the ground, if not necessarily at full weight. My procedure is this:

1] I run down the axle nut as far as possible by hand, then ratchet (with helper holding brakes).

2] Mount wheels, re-install lugs; tighten lugs to ratchet- tight. Then jack car, remove stands, lower car to where tires are in firm contact with ground, but the full weight of the car not yet on them. I lower the car until the tires are slightly flattened on the ground, this will leave some weight supported by the jack. This will make the car stable against the leverage needed to torque axle nuts yet not leave the wheel bearings too stressed by taking full weight of the car prior to being properly torqued (which kills bearings).

3] Have Helper go hard on the brakes, and carefully torque axle nuts.

4] Fully lower car, re-check axle nuts and lug bolt torques.

5] DONE. Have pink drink or something. 




echassin said:


> Struts installed:


Um... the surface of the hub looks kinda irregular & uneven. Might I suggest back- scraping the hub/ rim mounting surface with a razor blade, or perhaps some gentle flat- filing, to ensure there are no high points that would interfere with solidly mounting the rim. Paint might hold the rims off proper seating by a few thou, and will try to dust away; possibly leaving the rim slightly off- axis and loose to the lugs.

Just being really finicky.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

_Geez, IcyOne,_ if you're gonna be thorough, you forgot to mention righty tighty, lefty loosey.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

pchassin said:


> _Geez, IcyOne,_ if you're gonna be thorough, you forgot to mention righty tighty, lefty loosey.


Unless you have a MOPAR. I lefty loosey-ed the left lug nuts on my Plymouth and snapped the lugs right off. I snapped off two before I figured out something was wrong.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

pchassin said:


> _Geez, IcyOne,_ if you're gonna be thorough...


Yep. Writing it as a detailed, step-by-step procedure is not so much for E's sake as for someone of less knowledge/ experience that might be reading the thread. I figure if I write a procedure, might as well make it suitable for noob's use; which means don't skip or leave out anything. That's just... teaching how to do it right, passing along knowledge of stuff such as vulnerability of wheel bearings, bottoming lugs, fastener handling, double-check torque, and so on.

It's in the context of, "Here's a possible mistake and how to avoid making it"; which E (mostly) doesn't need but someone new to wrenching might find useful information.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> ...I lefty loosey-ed the left lug nuts on my Plymouth and snapped the lugs right off. I snapped off two before I figured out something was wrong.


BTDT, except it was a Volvo truck and way south of there. Way, way south.

:laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We're taking two weeks off with the boys and we went on a nice little getaway, and we've seen some good movies, all of which get a thumbs up from me, whatever that might or might not be worth: The Accountant, Rogue One, Arrival, and La La Land.

Today it was warmish and we were gonna go to the zoo, but it started to _rain_, which in January in Chicago is better than the alternative, but everyone ended doing their own thing, and I got a lot done on the car.

First, the plastic clips that hold the fender liners:

This took a while because there are 12 on each side and in order to keep rust from forming where one pushes them in (which chips the paint), each one has to be meticuolously smothered in seam sealer, using a mirror to verify good coverage on the back side.

Next my brake parts came, so I finished putting the front caliper together:


Installed:

I got the brakes bled in about 5 minutes using 10 psi into the fluid reservoir, and the pedal feels great, confirming that sometimes buying a lot of new stuff _is_ the way to go .

Next I got the tires mounted:

The wheels are very nice but I'm not in total love with them. P says they're spectacular, but I suspect she's just worried I'll try to switch wheels with her 16V :sly:.

But anyhoo, here we are:


Mechanically the car's done, which leaves:

Wedsnesday 1/4: 400 sand urethane front and rear valences.
Thursday 1/5: 400 sand urethane side skirts.
Friday 1/6 and Saturday 1/7: 400 sand urethane arches.
Sunday 1/8: 400 sand urethane door bottoms and urethane screw covers.
Tuesday 1/10: 1200 sand, buff, wax hood.
Thursday 1/12: 1200 sand, buff, wax roof, cowl. 400 sand rear panel for repaint. (maybe I'll hold off since it's a Friday the 13th...)
Saturday 1/14: 1200 sand, buff, wax doors.
Sunday 1/15: 1200 sand, buff, wax quarter panels.
First warm day: body paint repairs, then add flex agent, paint body kit.
Day after that: install body kit, fender liners, and bumpers, wheels on.

Total: 11 days.

As for parts I can't locate, I'll give 1 million dollars for each of the following:
Turn signal stalk assembly.
Passenger side vent window seal.
The "L" shaped seal, driver side door, that goes along the top and rear of the window opening.

The scrapers I'll get from VR once I have the other seals in hand.

Oh, edit: it looks like Karl missed Petra's jab, so I'll have a go at it using my trademarked subtlety:

"Pedant: noun 1. a person who makes an excessive or inappropriate display of learning. 2. a person who overemphasizes rules or minor details." 

Toodaloo :wave:


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## Restorocco (Dec 6, 2016)

Turn Signal Stalk


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> ...it looks like Karl *parried* Petra's jab...


FTFY. Just being pendantic, doncha know... :laugh:

:wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

One has to put some style into parrying so it doesn't look like one is just beng avoidant . And yes, I admit I had to ask P what parried means .

Edit: Thanks for the stalk link, the wiper side is available too :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey, I got the front wheels on (I ended up going without the front spacers), tightened the axles, went for a test drive, and made it back without a tow, which is always a good thing:
I started building the tip-tissery exactly 4 months ago.

The good news:
1) It looks great, and hopefully even better with judicious sanding and buffing, plus obviously the body kit and bumpers.
2) It runs well, and it doesn't drip a drop of anything from anywhere, which was good to see since I'd never made my own bubble flares before. Toss that on the pile of newly acquired skills :thumbup:.

Like anything, it already has a punch list:
1) There's a rattle somewhere up front, seems like in the dash.
2) I switched the brake proportioning valves to diagnose an early locking rear wheel and sure enough, it's now the opposite rear wheel that locks up first. If anyone knows where to get one of those valves, LMK.
3) The hatch won't stay up in the cold, but I have another set of lifts on hand.
4) The turn and wiper stalks are on order, they're indeed worn, i.e.: they work if you fiddle with them.
5) I need to center the steering wheel less than one spline, so I need to tweak the tie rods.

I also 400 sanded the kit screw covers and the lower door trim, so in addition to the punch list I still need to:

Thursday 1/5: 400 sand urethane front and rear valences.
Friday 1/6: 400 sand urethane side skirts.
Saturday 1/7 and Sunday 1/8: 400 sand urethane arches.
Tuesday 1/10: 1200 sand, buff hood.
Thursday 1/12: 1200 sand, buff roof, cowl. 400 sand rear panel for repaint.
Saturday 1/14: 1200 sand, buff doors.
Sunday 1/15: 1200 sand, buff quarter panels.
First warm day: body paint repairs, then add flex agent, paint body kit.
Day after that: install body kit, fender liners, and bumpers, wax/wash.

Total: 10 days.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Eistreiber said:


> Um... the surface of the hub looks kinda irregular & uneven. Might I suggest back- scraping the hub/ rim mounting surface with a razor blade, or perhaps some gentle flat- filing, to ensure there are no high points that would interfere with solidly mounting the rim. Paint might hold the rims off proper seating by a few thou, and will try to dust away; possibly leaving the rim slightly off- axis and loose to the lugs.
> Just being really finicky.


The painted hub gave me pause as well. Not only because of its lunar-like surface, but mainly because it's _painted_.
You really don't want painted hub/rotor/drum surfaces. 
It's not a question of if, but WHEN the lug bolts will work loose. Paint will gradually compress and squidge its way around until the tension on the lugs is reduced.
[It will also look like total crap the next time you take things apart, but that's a secondary concern. Primary concern is safety.]

If you're going to do it, then my advice is check and retorque the lug bolts OFTEN.

E, the only other thing I would say about paint is (and I don't mean to be critical), but after all of this work, the brake and suspension components are not going to hold up to the road all that well. Long-term I think you might have been much more pleased to have had those things powdercoated. The extra time and expense really is worth it.

As far as that elaborate CV bolt procedure there Karl... umm... hmmm. 
Historically I've done them myself without a helper and what I found was easiest was wheels & tires ON and the front wheels approx ~4 inches off the ground, trans in gear.
Once they're loosely installed... rotate the tire/axle on the side _opposite_ the one you're working on by pushing the inside of it with your foot. Thanks to the diff, the axle you're working on turns in the opposite direction. 'Lock' things in place for torquing by wedging your shoe sideways under said tire. Harder to describe than it is to actually do, although it does require good flexibility and a bit of contortion... but you can make these movements rather quickly with your foot 'by feel' and never take your eyes/hands off the inner CV/wrench.
I always cross-tighten the bolts in progressive torque steps.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I replaced the hatch lifts and centered the steering wheel, so that's two items off the punch list. The rattle sounds like loose tin in the dash, and it stops if I press down, but I haven't found it yet.

The only thing I've ever had powder coated was my GTI's Snowflakes, and the stuff is indeed tough. Maybe something to try someday, but my other cars seem to have held up OK with paint, so we'll see. Starting with clean blasted metal helps a lot IMO.

As for tthe painted bolt surfaces, I haven't had anything come loose yet that I didn't blatently forget to tighten (note embarassing disclaimer), and I do tend to under tighten things that don't get formally torqued, whereas in my experience with Karl, he tends to strip threads. Tiny RC planes vs heavy equipment mechanic . His troubles present immediately, mine usually far from home .

As for looking bad when unbolted, sometimes yes, but not rusted, which I like. As for CVs, just tighten the ufcking bolts you prima donnas.

I can't find any answer on this: can the proportioning valves be serviced? It looks like they bolt together? I imagine there's just a spring loaded ball valve that shuts when the preset pressure is reached? Unless a used one presents itself or I find a new one, I may have to take a peek inside the bad one...


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> Starting with clean blasted metal helps a lot IMO.


Agreed. And _all_ paint isn't bad... 2K paints are pretty durable, as are moisture-cured urethanes such as Rust Bullet, POR15, etc (provided you use UV-stable topcoats).
It's the garden-variety paint out of the can that's too soft to hold up to road rash. Of those, Rustoleum is pretty good.
Basically the difference is between holding up for 3-5 years vs. 20.

I had a wheel work loose off a painted drum once. A good bit of it is how thick the paint was to start with. I had used several coats of primer and paint.



E said:


> As for CVs, just tighten the ufcking bolts you prima donnas.


:laugh:



E said:


> I can't find any answer on this: can the proportioning valves be serviced? It looks like they bolt together? I imagine there's just a spring loaded ball valve that shuts when the preset pressure is reached? Unless a used one presents itself or I find a new one, I may have to take a peek inside the bad one...


Theoretically yes, practically... could be difficult.
There are not separate internal parts available that I've ever seen. 
What's wrong with yours? If you think it just needs new seals or something, you may be able to source replacements that are similar or suitable...but you're in uncharted waters here since there's no part #s to go by.
If it's seized however, it's probably scrap.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> As for CVs, just tighten the ufcking bolts you prima donnas.


That's what I bloody well said, damnit! I simply was trying to teach that loading inboard CV bolts (CV to trans) *can* be done comfortably from outboard of the car, which provides better access and comfort. Anybody who worms under the car and tries to torque inner CV bolts from underneath is doing it stupid.



echassin said:


> As for the painted bolt surfaces, I haven't had anything come loose yet that I didn't blatantly forget to tighten (note embarassing disclaimer), and I do tend to under tighten things that don't get formally torqued, whereas in my experience with Karl, he tends to strip threads. Tiny RC planes vs heavy equipment mechanic . His troubles present immediately, mine usually far from home .


The hell you say, when did I ever strip threads on anything you own? And if I were you I'd not mention RC planes, considering you tried to take my head off with one, once. Yeah, nice piloting...

:laugh:


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

How ufcked are your proportioning valves?


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

400 sanding continues on the myriad body kit bits, "the only way to eat an elephant is one bite at a time".



Eistreiber said:


> Anybody who worms under the car and tries to torque inner CV bolts from underneath is doing it stupid.
> 
> The hell you say, when did I ever strip threads on anything you own?


"Stupid" is too harsh, IMO.

The last stripped thread I recall was tightening the lower timing belt cover onto the aluminum seal carrier on P's 16V, and there were a few others. We always got by with a longer bolt, *and it's OK*: I'm only trying to make the point that we all bring different skill sets to this hobby, and we all have different muscle memory based on other skills we have. I tend to lack adequate force on fasteners because I'm used to working with small stuff ("phrasing!"), and I think you sometimes use too much force, prefer a BFH, etc... because of _your_ training.



Eistreiber said:


> How ufcked are your proportioning valves?


One appears to be fine, the rear wheel locks at about the same time as the fronts. The other rear wheel locks even with moderate braking, so I think the valve is stuck open.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Eistreiber said:


> That's what I bloody well said, damnit! I simply was trying to teach that loading inboard CV bolts (CV to trans) *can* be done comfortably from outboard of the car, which provides better access and comfort. Anybody who worms under the car and tries to torque inner CV bolts from underneath is doing it stupid.





echassin said:


> "Stupid" is too harsh, IMO.


Yeah no kidding. :sly:
If we're going to play at being A-holes, then I think depending on a helper and a bunch of long-ass extensions is... stupid. 
I can't imagine much more futility than trying to fandangle 2-3 feet of extensions while simultaneously engaging CV bolt heads with an 8-pt bit from a distance.
The GD things are annoying enough to get a bead on from 6" away... and without hair around them. 

To each his own I guess.



echassin said:


> ...because I'm used to working with small stuff ("phrasing!")


That's what P said.
<snicker>



echassin said:


> The other rear wheel locks even with moderate braking, so I think the valve is stuck open.


Yep. Ufcked.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

Eistreiber said:


> That's what I bloody well said, damnit! I simply was trying to teach that loading inboard CV bolts (CV to trans) *can* be done comfortably from outboard of the car, which provides better access and comfort. Anybody who worms under the car and tries to torque inner CV bolts from underneath is doing it stupid.
> The hell you say, when did I ever strip threads on anything you own? And if I were you I'd not mention RC planes, considering you tried to take my head off with one, once. Yeah, nice piloting...
> :laugh:


Don't go on the attack, Karl. Let's learn from experiences, which is one of the goals of a public forum, after all.
Oh and, by the way, he didn't try to take off your head with an RC plane, merely your torso. And as I recall, you dodged it pretty quick.
He is considered one of the best RC pilots in the 'hood.


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> "Stupid" is too harsh, IMO.





DiezNutz said:


> Yeah no kidding. :sly: If we're going to play at being A-holes... (etc.) I can't imagine much more futility than trying to fandangle 2-3 feet of extensions while simultaneously engaging CV bolt heads with an 8-pt bit from a distance.





pchassin said:


> Don't go on the attack, Karl. Let's *learn from experiences, which is one of the goals of a public forum,* after all.


Right. *In my experience*, doing the inner CVs from outboard of the fenders with a very long extension is the *easiest method IMHO*, after the first time I tried I wondered why in hell I hadn't been doing them that way from the beginning. One long ext is better than a stack of short ones for *this* usage, but OTOH a stack can be 'bent' a few degrees which is sometimes useful for making your tool set-up turn a corner so to speak, without having to use a U-joint. I've done that a couple of time too, it's a trick that sometimes come in kinda handy. 

I love extensions, love 'em love 'em love 'em. And it's a useful lesson to remember that extensions aren't just for reaching buried components, but can also be used to get the ratchet in an uncrowded area so there's plenty of room to turn it without bashing the tool or fingers. In other words, get the action to an area where there's plenty of room rather than mess around in tight quarters and get frustrated by having only very limited space in which to work.



echassin said:


> ...we all bring different skill sets to this hobby, and we all have different muscle memory based on other skills we have. I tend to lack adequate force on fasteners because I'm used to working with small stuff ("phrasing!"), and I think you sometimes use too much force, prefer a BFH, etc... because of _your_ training.


Actually I'm fairly attentive to torque, especially due to my background. I hate sheering a fastener and having to dig it out, Murphy's Law of sheering states that a sheered bolt will always sheer low enough to leave nothing left to grab with pliers; so I try to avoid sheering/ snapping to begin with.

Some time ago Otto and I were working on his 16v, decided that rather than going to "feels about right" for torque, we'd use the Bentley for reference and tighten to *absolutely correct torque specs.* It was an educational experience, invariably we found that *correct* torque was much less than we'd been used to thinking.

And for very high torque I get someone like IcePete to help. I've seen him sheer a 3/4" bolt (it was a bit rusty and he using a 4' breaker bar, but still...). He and I became sort of the default McM track plate replacement team, on the big stuff like the D8R the torque spec (IIRC) for track bolts was something like 450 ft-lbs then an additional 180 degrees turn. IcePete cheerfully considered himself a well-trained gorilla suitable to the task...

:laugh:


Considering the proportioning valve, here's a goofy suggestion; but sometimes it has worked for me.



echassin said:


> ...so I think the valve is stuck open.


Remove the faulty valve, put in a small freeze/ boil baggie, then another (ie; double-bag it). Then boil it for 15 minutes, then out of the hot water into the freezer for 30 minutes, then boil, then freeze... und so weiter. Freeze/ heat cycle maybe 8 or 10 times, that might loosen a sticky internal part. Might. My success rate with this method is about 50% or so, worth trying anyway. G/L.

Now let's all relax and have a :beer: or whatever.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

400 sanding of the body kit continues, I have 2 arches left but I need to let some skin grow back on my fingers. I'm not using the DA because I'm not repriming and I don't want to sand through the color.

Today I got new radiator flap brackets from Mk1Autohaus, and they're so white that they _really_ stand out in the engine bay, so I might switch them over to Marlene.

I also got the new wiper and turn signal stalks, and they have a nice smooth action to them that feels nice, but the turn signals and the washer still didn't work . It turns out the washer motor connector was just corroded and the turn signal connector at the steering column had one of the pins back out. Not my most frugal diagnostic workup, but I like the new stalks, so that's that.

I noticed the wiper stalk has a blocking plate on it that eliminates the intermittent option. Instead of removing it, I jumpered the wiper relay to make like an early base model Rabbit without intermittent wipers.

What that means is that my 16V Scirocco is now down to _three_ relays for the whole car :


Fuel pumps, flashers, and that unloader relay for cranking. Niiiice!


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## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

*valves*

Indeed these can be rebuilt, usually clean the gunk out ( brake cleaner) and re assemble with new O rings. watch out for corrosion inside the barrel. 





HTH.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

*
*Thanks for posting that, Grant!

I will definitely be taking a peek at the faulty one once I get it out. Hopefully that'll be yet another useful skill I get out of this project 

Edit: Frustrating, I understood even before seeing that pic how these valves worked conceptually, but staring at that pic, I can't discern how the fluid flows before and after the valve shuts, or even exactly what part actually shuts.


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

roccodingo said:


> Indeed these can be rebuilt, usually clean the gunk out ( brake cleaner) and re assemble with new O rings. watch out for corrosion inside the barrel.


Very cool Grant! :beer:
Do you have sources for replacement O rings? I assume they would need to be EPDM?



echassin said:


> Edit: Frustrating, I understood even before seeing that pic how these valves worked conceptually, but staring at that pic, I can't discern how the fluid flows before and after the valve shuts, or even exactly what part actually shuts.


The brass cylinder & disk is the piston that must overcome the heavy spring on the left to "shut" the valve.
Once "shut", fluid is restricted against the outlet, not cut completely. For this to work, I _think_ the piston must be hollow so that fluid can flow through it (not having one apart atm though, I'm not certain).

The spring pressure sets the "changeover pressure" or "breaking pressure" (that's "breaking" not "braking"... spelling matters ) of the valve.
This pressure is the larger of the two numbers stamped on the valve - e.g., '15' bar (218 psi -> 16V discs) or '35' bar (508 psi -> 8V drums).

Once the changeover pressure is exceeded, the output pressure is restricted by the "reduction factor", which is the '3' stamped on the valve. 3 = 0.3, or 30%.
I.e., for each additional 1 bar in over the changeover point, the valve only allows an additional 0.3 bar out.

Handy internet pic I'd found in my Porsche travels:











While we're on the subject... *Bentley is wrong, or rather incomplete (not unusual!!)* in section 4.4 regarding the proportioning valves.
If you do the math, you'll find that 'Table b' ONLY addresses the 3|35 drum valve, it is NOT correct for the 3|15 disc valve.
Historically, some well-meaning but ill-informed asshats have tried to use this Table as "proof" that the two valves are identical. THEY ARE NOT!

Moral of the story: Do not implicitly trust the printed word, and as good as Bentley is, it's no exception. Ask me about incorrect torque spec on Diesel coolant flange ==> cracked flange.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I've also had troubles with Bentley manuals over the years, but overall they've saved us way more than they've cost.

So a big "ooof!":

The body kit is 400 sanded and is ready for paint, which will need to wait until our garage is in the 60's.

Updated work list:
Monday 1/9: tidy up bumpers.
Tuesday 1/10: 1200 sand, buff hood.
Thursday 1/12: 1200 sand, buff roof, cowl.
Saturday 1/14: 1200 sand, buff doors.
Sunday 1/15: 1200 sand, buff quarter panels.
First warm day: 400 sand body areas to be repaired, paint repairs, then add flex agent, paint body kit.
Day after that: install body kit, fender liners, and bumpers, wax/wash.

Total 7 days.

Punch list:
Replace prop valve
Fix dash rattle


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Every time I open this page I see this pic, and ya know... the more I see it the more I *like* it. Without bumpers or skirts, the car looks very stripped down & aggresive, and the stance (slightly back-end up) is perfect IMO.



echassin said:


> [/URL]


I'm not saying you should keep it that way... bumpers are kinda useful if not so much for you then for *other people* (who park by ear). Or you could get a Rottweiler puppy and have its teeth capped in chrome or stainless steel, mount an eye-bolt on the car and when you park put the puppy on a 20- 25 ft leash (Rotties do Turf). That'll reduce parking dings, or maybe you'll score some 'free' rims and tires to re-sell (Rotties don't quit, and often bring 'prizes' to prove that they've been on the job, so to speak). And puppies are fun!

Save that pic and have it printed at poster size. :thumbup: And bonus points; pic includes the RHStC, Bob, and Marlene... an abundance of evil redness.

:thumbup:



echassin said:


> Like anything, it already has a punch list:
> 
> 1) There's a rattle somewhere up front, seems like in the dash.


ALL Mk2's, every damn one of 'em, that I've ever encounted in my life have a rattle and/ or squeak in the general area of the dash. Your choices are hose it down with WD-40 or silicone lube spray, *OR* space expanding insulating foam. Basically eliminate the noise *OR* bury it.

G/L. I hate those rattle/ squeak searches, always a PITA. :banghead:





echassin said:


> 5) I need to center the steering wheel less than one spline, so I need to tweak the tie rods.


You just hit confirmed permanent OCD level, like a poster child for it... and I'm right there with you, 'centered is *centered*'.

That said, I'd wait a while; let the car settle. The crown angle of the road or even the difference between L tires on asphalt & R tires on concrete can make a few degrees difference in steering wheel angle. Take your time and tweak once, instead of chasing it back and forth.




echassin said:


> What that means is that my 16V Scirocco is now down to _three_ relays for the whole car


You could sand the excess plastic off the fuses and save a bit more weight, ya slacker. :laugh:



roccodingo said:


> *Holy Grail of info on proportioning valves.*





echassin said:


> *Thanks for posting that, Grant!*


*



DiezNutz said:



Very cool Grant! :beer:

Click to expand...

x3. It's great to have an exploded parts diagram, now we know what is inside that mysterious component and thus have a half a chance of being able to fix it.

Well done, roccodingo; good on ya mate. :beer:




DiezNutz said:



Do you have sources for replacement O rings? I assume they would need to be EPDM?

Click to expand...

For seeking O-rings, I would go to a nearby CAT dealer/ shop. CAT has O-rings sorted by diameter, cross-section size and format (as in pie R square, cake are round...), and what fluids the O'rings are formulated to seal against.

For that matter E you might try first bushwhacking your back garden and check in with the Parts Dept. at the CASE factory, they might just have something suitable. It's a Heavy Equipment thang... heh.

G/L. *


----------



## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

DiezNutz said:


> The brass cylinder & disk is the piston that must overcome the heavy spring on the left to "shut" the valve.
> Once "shut", fluid is restricted against the outlet, not cut completely. For this to work, I _think_ the piston must be hollow so that fluid can flow through it (not having one apart atm though, I'm not certain).


Brass cylinder is the fixed spigot that the piston ( 2 discs and O ring top pic ) slides down upon, once it compresses the larger spring and stops against the split metal spacer sleeve that is the changeover point. As the piston slides down, the plastic shuttle with the smaller spring then closes the orifice in the centre of the brass spigot reducing / cutting off the pressure and / or flow through the brass spigot centre drilling to the rear brakes. 



DiezNutz said:


> The spring pressure sets the "changeover pressure" or "breaking pressure" (that's "breaking" not "braking"... spelling matters ) of the valve.
> This pressure is the larger of the two numbers stamped on the valve - e.g., '15' bar (218 psi -> 16V discs) or '35' bar (508 psi -> 8V drums).
> 
> Once the changeover pressure is exceeded, the output pressure is restricted by the "reduction factor", which is the '3' stamped on the valve. 3 = 0.3, or 30%.
> ...


:thumbup:

Will get some individual pics of the guts of the valve tomorrow.


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> I've also had troubles with Bentley manuals over the years, but overall they've saved us way more than they've cost.


Well sure. But if it _looks_ suspect, it's worth independent confirmation. :thumbup:



Eistreiber said:


> ALL Mk2's, every damn one of 'em, that I've ever encounted in my life have a rattle and/ or squeak in the general area of the dash. Your choices are hose it down with WD-40 or silicone lube spray, *OR* space expanding insulating foam. Basically eliminate the noise *OR* bury it.


3rd option: strategically placed strips of self-adhesive felt. Buy it by the sheet and cut out your own fun shapes.
Only drawback is, need to have placed it _before_ installing the dash.



Eistreiber said:


> That said, I'd wait a while; *let the car settle*. The crown angle of the road or even the difference between L tires on asphalt & R tires on concrete can make a few degrees difference in steering wheel angle. Take your time and tweak once, instead of chasing it back and forth.


This. :thumbup:



Eistreiber said:


> For seeking O-rings, I would go to a nearby CAT dealer/ shop. CAT has O-rings sorted by diameter, cross-section size and format (as in pie R square, cake are round...), and what fluids the O'rings are formulated to seal against...


Sure but as long as Grant is giving up all of his secrets... 
If he has replacements identified already, then that eliminates guesswork / rooting around in endless bins / being harassed by skeezy salesmen.


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

DiezNutz said:


> 3rd option: strategically placed strips of self-adhesive felt. Buy it by the sheet and cut out your own fun shapes.
> Only drawback is, need to have placed it *before installing the dash.*


True dat; but it's sort of like having to put the parachute on *before* jumping out of the crashing aircraft. :laugh:

Knowing E, he'll track the noise down and *correct at the source*. Which is an impressive... dare I say "awesome" example of doing it right. I don't think any of us could live long with an unknown rattle or squeak, it'd sure as hell drive me crazy (-er).



DiezNutz said:


> If ...Grant... has replacements identified already, then that eliminates guesswork / rooting around in endless bins / being harassed by skeezy salesmen.


Alzo true dat, but it's a BIG 'if'; AFAIK the prop valves were never meant to be 'serviced' but rather replaced as assemblies, thus I don't think there will be individual p/n's for the gutz parts. They're "Not available" because they were never meant to be sold that way, right?

So... the CAT dealer's Parts Dept will have (should have) sizing tools; something like a shelved spike to determine ID, and a caliper to determine cross-section (O-ring thickness). And a good parts-monkey (which term I use with respect) will know his computer system well enough that if the sample is 'about' say 25mm ID, 1.5mm cross, round profile, and formulated to resist fuel; he can bring up a list of 23- 26mm ID, 1.25- 1.75mm cross in round fuel-res O-rings.

It's just a useful source for O-rings that one can't get from the VW stealership or our other preferred sources such as Potterman, GAP, and so on.

The brake prop valves are getting very hard to find, now we know how they come apart and how they work; maybe it's time to figure out sources for rebuild p/n's. It's not like VW is suddenly going to produce another batch of prop valves for 30- year old cars, right now I think VW is spending their money on lawyer's fees defending themselves on the Great Diesel Emissions Scam. Dummies...

Well anyway; CAT is a good source for O-rings, parts-monkeys generally aren't skeezy as long as you avoid the ones wearing plaid trousers and faux-gold medallions dangling in front of their high-collared leisure suits.

:beer:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

The dash rattle may be a chronic problem: this is my DIY dash, and I think the defog duct might be touching something, and it may be tough to locate. It didn't rattle before, and it all looked solid when I had it out, plus I've noticed when the car warms up the rattle goes away...

...which makes me think that filling in the engine mounts with silicone this time around is the cause. When the engine is cold, the mounts must be too hard because the whole car vibrates in addition to the dash rattle. As the engine heats up and apparently softens the mounts, the car is smooth and quiet again. I may live with it until I change out the mounts.

The valves can likely be serviced, but that's not my thing. I don't rebuild starters, alternators, master cylinders, etc... and I don't have any interest in, nor confidence in rebuilding those valves [yet]. I do rebuild front brake calipers but that's an exception, only because they're a simple design and expensive to replace.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Buffing is underway, hood is done:

I used 1200 grit on the DA and even going gently, the orange peel is completely gone. I prefer to leave some so the paint looks OEM-ish, plus that way I know it's still plenty thick. I'll try 1500 on the roof and see what that gets me. The shine is great without buffing, and while there's not much dust for a garage job, there is enough that I can't just leave it.

I also cleaned up the bumpers, so they're ready to install after the body kit is done.

Updated work list:
Thursday 1/12: 1200 sand, buff roof, cowl.
Saturday 1/14: 1200 sand, buff doors.
Sunday 1/15: 1200 sand, buff quarter panels.
First warm day: 400 sand body areas to be repaired, paint repairs, then add flex agent, paint body kit.
Day after that: install body kit, fender liners, and bumpers, wax/wash.

Total 5 days.

Punch list:
Replace prop valve
Fix dash rattle


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> The dash rattle may be a chronic problem: this is my DIY dash, and I think the defog duct might be touching something, and it may be tough to locate. It didn't rattle before, and it all looked solid when I had it out, plus I've noticed when the car warms up the rattle goes away...
> 
> ...which makes me think that filling in the engine mounts with silicone this time around is the cause. When the engine is cold, the mounts must be too hard because the whole car vibrates in addition to the dash rattle. As the engine heats up and apparently softens the mounts, the car is smooth and quiet again. I may live with it until I change out the mounts.


Hmm. If the rattle "goes away" after warming up under the hood, I think that would suggest that your DIY dash is fine; and as suspected your engine mounts might be transmitting more than optimal vibration. Have you compared noise level with the heater control set full OFF? That is, no flow through the heater core and thus no warm air through the dash vents or ducts?


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## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

*more pesky valves*

Found free time to get a few snaps together ....



Stripped most of this valve apart, piston and inlet valve were rusted into the bore to the max, still the main spring is still usable.. :thumbup:



Closer view of the central hollow brass spigot that the spring envelopes, and the sliding piston move over ( smaller top diameter section )



Rusty bore which is highly likely to cause seal failure, piston and holed inlet valve visible 



Next valve came apart completely, some internal rusting still possibly a serviceable unit tho



New valved opened up....



bore lookin good ..


----------



## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

*jigsaw*

next pics show how it fits together...



Short end of spigot passes through flat washer....

spigot locates in end cap with small o ring to seal... spigot has tiny exit hole ( likely for residual pressure duty )



Spring slides over spigot, transfers load onto shoulder on brass spigot. You can see the bubble in the plastic inlet valve that closes over the brass spigot inlet. Piston assembly ( washers and O ring seals ) visible 



Spacer is slid over spring, down onto rear end cap. Spring protrudes over spacer a reasonable amount..:what:



Piston assembly mounted onto small end of brass spigot. Assembled piston uses small inner and large outer O ring for fluid sealing. Bore inside barrel ( case ) and small spigot on brass piston need good finish to create the seal, any corrosion damage is likely to cause a failure.



Pressing piston down onto spacer, this is the limit of travel for the piston. 



Inlet valve resting on top of piston. When the fluid pressure pushes the piston down, the small end of the brass spigot protrudes out enough for the plastic valve to come into contact and either reduce the flow or stop it completely to the outlet of the valve. 



barrel slid over the innards and screwed down...





External O ring on end cap thread to keep crap out of the valve ??





End pics of the spigot, tiny hole on exit side I think is to control fluid reverse flow rate when brake pedal released ( residual pressure ) ?
Inlet end has small counterbore that marries up with bubble on plastic inlet valve.


----------



## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

*horses for courses....*

Ok , only difference I have been able to determine so far between Drum brake and Disc brake valves has been the load spring inside the things. ( makes sense ...) 



Both new valves of each type....

Everything measured the same, except of course the spring...



The drum brake valve on the right has visibly larger wire size 1.7 mm dia Vs 1.4 mm dia, the other specific measurements are extremely close... 

One of our Racing guys here has tracked down the 3 / 15 valves to a Lotus car, seems they have the same issues sourcing new valves as 16 V Scirocco owners do.

It is possible to have new springs made to convert the drum valves to disc valves, I thought about buying the ( currently ) more readily available drum valves and swapping in new lower pressure springs. Could also use the springs out of existing 16V valves if they are in good nick. However looking at all the used valves i have I really think once these ingress water in the brake fluid then its only a matter of time till the sealing surfaces inside the valve fail rendering it useless.

Thoughts ??


----------



## OSLer (Aug 7, 2007)

Thank you so much for sharing this, awesome! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

roccodingo said:


> It is possible to have new springs made to convert the drum valves to disc valves, I thought about buying the ( currently ) more readily available drum valves and swapping in new lower pressure springs. Could also use the springs out of existing 16V valves if they are in good nick. However looking at all the used valves i have I really think once these ingress water in the brake fluid then its only a matter of time till the sealing surfaces inside the valve fail rendering it useless.
> 
> Thoughts ??


Buy new drum brake valves, put 16V springs in them. Stamp the re-done valves to reflect new pressure. Nick in Greece has new Scirocco rear prop valves on eBay that say "not for 16V"

They _are_ a bit expensive though:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Original-...489179?hash=item3f537ab09b:g:bBsAAOSwFnFV8woS

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-VW-...ash=item3d0314b045:g:fGEAAOSwLqFV8wr6&vxp=mtr

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

If I can't secure serviceable disc valves, I think I can use Grant's pics to switch the springs into new drum valves, which aren't cheap, but at least I'd be back in business.

My Cabby has one rear wheel locking early too, I guess I need to buy 4 of these suckers :facepalm:


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> If I can't secure serviceable disc valves, I think I can...


Welcome to rebuild World. What you can't buy you'll have to make and/ or overhaul. I can think of few people more qualified to do so.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Thanks for all the pics Grant, I used them as a reference to take apart the bad valve.

First, confirm it's not a drum valve, which it isn't:


When I opened it, filthy fluid came out even though the brake system flushes clean 


Everything cleaned up beautifully, no corrosion at all:


When I first took it apart, the piston assembly seemed stuck, but after pushing it out, I noted a groove machined into the bore, and the piston seats _past it_, which appears to keep the piston from moving freely, or even _at all_. WTF 


Assembly:


Bottom line, I put it back together but have zero confidence that I changed anything except to clean it, and I don't see any failure. The O-rings are soft and seat snuggly. I do not understand how the piston moves at all without getting its outer O-ring snagging on that groove in the bore. I also don't understand how this thing lets any fluid at all past the plastic ball valve once it seats onto the brass "spigot". I also do cannot reconcile that the valve looks great, but I know it's bad because I switched sides to confirm the locking wheel would also switch sides, and it did.


----------



## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

echassin said:


> Thanks for all the pics Grant, I used them as a reference to take apart the bad valve.
> 
> First, confirm it's not a drum valve, which it isn't:
> 
> ...


Looks amazingly clean internally Eric, With the design of the valve bleeding the system doesnt flush the fluid that lives on the rearward side of the piston around the spring ( leakage into that cavity ) so thats likely where the bulk of the grotty fluid originates from.

From what I have measured the piston travels in the smaller bore section that you have identified, I think the total travel is likely to be only several mm. ( should be a step more than a groove in the bore ) 

If this is the side thats locking then the piston isnt moving down to allow the plastic valve to close the port into the centre of the brass spigot.

See if you have a brake shop local that can test it ( guage input and output pressures ) 

I will go through all the valves and send you over the best of the used lot.:thumbup:


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## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

Eistreiber said:


> Welcome to rebuild World. What you can't buy you'll have to make and/ or overhaul. I can think of few people more qualified to do so.


On the money Karl. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

*Replies in bold:*



roccodingo said:


> With the design of the valve bleeding the system doesnt flush the fluid that lives on the rearward side of the piston around the spring ( leakage into that cavity ) so thats likely where the bulk of the grotty fluid originates from. *That makes sense. The O-rings must be OK because there wasn't much fluid behind the piston even after 30 years.*
> 
> From what I have measured the piston travels in the smaller bore section that you have identified, I think the total travel is likely to be only several mm. ( should be a step more than a groove in the bore ) *Can you feel the piston move? I pushed on it from both sides and I cannot discern any movement. The thing is clean and lubed with brake fluid.*
> 
> ...


I also sanded and buffed the roof/sunroof and the fenders, they came out nice:




Updated work list:
Saturday 1/14: 1200 sand, buff doors.
Sunday 1/15: 1200 sand, buff quarter panels.
First warm day: 400 sand body areas to be repaired, paint repairs, then add flex agent, paint body kit.
Day after that: install body kit, fender liners, and bumpers, wax/wash.

Total 4 days.

Punch list:
Replace prop valve
Fix dash rattle


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

roccodingo said:


> On the money Karl. :thumbup:


Well hell, I flail around a lot; but sooner or later odds are I'll say something accurate.

As they say in Laredo TX, "mooch owes grassy-ass, hmm... me go."



*Statistics.* If they don't getcha now, they'll catch up with you later.

:laugh:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

*GRANT!!!!*

Frickin' Awesome, Mate!! :thumbup::thumbup::beer:

Your writeup should really be copied to its own thread and *stickied*.

I agree that the only diffference between drum & disc should be that pressure spring.
The valve isn't _supposed_ to stop the flow out, only reduce pressure... except possibly briefly in a panic stop where the input pressure from MC spikes. I've heard such a rumor (unconfirmed?)
If true, there should be something apparent in the valve construction that corresponds to that feature.

Now if I can just source all the proper O-rings... I have quite a few of these to rebuild. I'm thinking I might like to find some more to rebuild while I'm at it.
Thanks for the "Bentley Addendum"! 

Oh. I suppose I gotta get back to this red car here now <*yawn*> FFS, is it done yet? 

Yeah... s'ok I guess.
:laugh:


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

This talk about proportioning valves reminded me of an aftermarket anti-lock brake system being sold about the time ABS systems first started to be offered on new cars.

You got two valves that went on the master cylinder (like proportioning valves). You would remove the brake lines, screw the adapters in a attach the brake lines to them.

They would pulse the brakes if you stomped on the pedal. I can't find anything like that on eBay or in an Internet search. I can't even think of the right term to search.

The reviews on them were mixed, but mostly negative. They worked sort-of but were mostly considered snake oil like the magnets for fuel lines. I think the main complaint was that most reviewers already knew how to use their brakes in slippery conditions. 

Does anybody else remember them?

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Buffing is done pending a final pass after the kit is on, to tidy up residual areas of orange peel, swirl marks, etc... I only have one repair to make, the rear panel below the license plate where I razor bladed a run. It looks OK, but it's an easy fix so I'll do it same day I paint the body kit.

Looking at the proportioning valve: it has a tiny passage that is the only ingress of fluid to the caliper under normal conditions, and might limit flow to the caliper. Pounds per square inch, even through a small passage, all the PSI should be available at the caliper. I don't see why else the passage would be so tiny though . There's no other path for fluid to reach the caliper.

As the piston moves, a ball shaped plug seats and blocks flow completely, that much is clear. So I don't see why the second number stamped on the valve isn't zero  (indicating no PSI).

This is one of these things I take on faith that it works, but I don't understand why...


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

Topic being R brake proportioning valves:



echassin said:


> This is one of these things I take on faith that it works, but I don't understand why...


There's a lot of that going around [ sniff/ sneeze ]. It looks so simple... but how exactly does the SOB *work?*



echassin said:


> When I opened it, filthy fluid came out even though the brake system flushes clean


That at least is comprehensible; that's brake fluid vintage... um, really old. If you were getting fresh clean fluid when you bled brakes on this car, then wherever this pocket of blackness was... was sealed off. All seals adjacent are trash.



echassin said:


>


I think this is going to be like comprehending how a differential functions; it's damn near impossible to explain in text, but once demonstrated it all makes sense. Incoming twist leads to outgoing twist, from where & to where dependent on what is locked up.


We should all be Honorary Apprectice EE's.

:beer:


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eistreiber said:


> We should all be Honorary Apprectice EE's.
> 
> :beer:


Electrical Engineers? That's what EE means to me. 

-Old Eric


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## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Electrical Engineers? That's what EE means to me.


Carp. I been done ufcked up; you're right, I meant "MEs" as in Mechanical Engineers.

But let's see if I can salvage the original.... hmm... OK, got it.

*E*E = *Enlightened* Engineer.

Have a :beer: and contemplate.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Eistreiber said:


> Carp. I been done ufcked up; you're right, I meant "MEs" as in Mechanical Engineers.
> 
> But let's see if I can salvage the original.... hmm... OK, got it.
> 
> ...


I think I might have a Stella Artois in the fridge. 

I knew some MEs that would make great EEs. 

I was EE adjacent. I was just an Avionics tech. 

-Old Eric


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Engineer is what I aspire to be, but sometimes they get out of hand with the complexity of their solutions. For example our tilting and sliding sunroof, which is a nighmare to work on.

Good news: I installed the prop valve figuring I had nothing to lose until a replacement materializes, and the brakes are perfect! The only thing I can figure is the fluid that accumulated behind the piston eventually equalized with incoming pressure and kept the valve from closing. It'll probably happen again if the seal are worn, but now I know I can switch the spring into a drum valve and be good to go. So to any of you getting me a valve, I'll PM you that there's no longer need (and thank you).

So here we are:


The thing runs great, steers great, brakes great .

Updated work list, unfortunately I'm stuck till Spring:
First warm day: 400 sand and repaint rear panel, then add flex agent and paint body kit.
Next day: install body kit, fender liners, and bumpers, final buff/wax/wash.

Total 2 days.

Punch list:
Fix dash rattle


----------



## cuppie (May 4, 2005)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> This talk about proportioning valves reminded me of an aftermarket anti-lock brake system being sold about the time ABS systems first started to be offered on new cars.
> 
> You got two valves that went on the master cylinder (like proportioning valves). You would remove the brake lines, screw the adapters in a attach the brake lines to them.
> 
> ...


I remember those (and, so does Pepperidge Farm.) ASB Trax was the name of the company. They went away because, well, they didn't do isht. 
In fact, IIRC, they were shut down because actual testing couldn't even remotely support their claims of effectiveness. 
I think that the Oracle can't find anything on them, because they were born and died before the intarwebs was actually a thing.


----------



## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

cuppie said:


> I remember those (and, so does Pepperidge Farm.) ASB Trax was the name of the company. They went away because, well, they didn't do isht.
> In fact, IIRC, they were shut down because actual testing couldn't even remotely support their claims of effectiveness.
> I think that the Oracle can't find anything on them, because they were born and died before the intarwebs was actually a thing.


Thanks.


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> ... I only have one repair to make, the rear panel below the license plate where I razor bladed a run. It looks OK, but it's an easy fix so I'll do it same day I paint the body kit.


I meant to ask you a while back... are you aware of such a thing called a 'nib file'? You could think of it a major razor blade refinement



E said:


> Looking at the proportioning valve: it has a tiny passage that is the only ingress of fluid to the caliper under normal conditions, and might limit flow to the caliper. Pounds per square inch, even through a small passage, all the PSI should be available at the caliper. I don't see why else the passage would be so tiny though . There's no other path for fluid to reach the caliper.
> 
> As the piston moves, a ball shaped plug seats and blocks flow completely, that much is clear. So I don't see why the second number stamped on the valve isn't zero  (indicating no PSI).
> This is one of these things I take on faith that it works, but I don't understand why...


Youse Guys are going to force me to dig one of these things out and disassemble it in an attempt to better explain. First, I gotta find where I stashed them...

Refer back to my earlier post with the graph; the 2nd number (e.g., 15) is the changeover point, at which the big spring is compressed. That's when the valve goes from 100% output to 30% output.
Flow can't be blocked completely. Proof of that lies in the Bentley table. I think the smaller spring and white plastic gizmo has something to do with this.
Allegedly, flow might be blocked temporarily during panic stop/pressure spike; otherwise it's a smooth 30% out.



Eistreiber said:


> I think this is going to be like comprehending how a differential functions; it's damn near impossible to explain in text, but once demonstrated it all makes sense. Incoming twist leads to outgoing twist, from where & to where dependent on what is locked up.


Open diff is easy... now let me throw a limited-slip at you 



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I think I might have a Stella Artois in the fridge.


Two points awarded to Old E :beer:



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> I knew some MEs that would make great EEs.


I'm the reverse of that. 
Job mostly satisfies my 'E' interest, garage scratches my 'M' itch. :thumbup:


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> The thing runs great, steers great, brakes great .


Road tests already? Hey, you're almost done! :thumbup::thumbup:

I should harass you more often!! :laugh:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> Road tests already? Hey, you're almost done! :thumbup::thumbup:
> 
> I should harass you more often!! :laugh:


Ha, I'm never done: I emptied the garage to sweep and tidy it, and when I went to put Marlene back in, she saw two other hussies in the garage and started to bust my balls with a no-start and running-rough temper tantrum .

One of the ignition wires is arking and the frequency valve is giving me the silent treatment. I wonder if the arking wire blew the ECU...

I'm gonna go to the automotive equivalent of the flower shop and buy her a bunch of tune-up parts, and then spend some quality time with her watching a chick flick -- er, I mean, running the Lambda electrical tests, to see if she'll forgive my infidelity.

Oh, and I've heard of nib files but never had one, I should get a set. I guess I keep thinking the next paint job will be perfect .


----------



## 81MarsRedS (Apr 24, 2014)

echassin said:


> One of the ignition wires is arking and the frequency valve is giving me the silent treatment. I wonder if the arking wire blew the ECU...


Hi Dr. E, check your Load Reduction Relay


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I assume you meant the Lambda relay? I swapped one in without any change. I've never heard of the load reduction relay affecting the O2 circuit . I did check it and it functions properly (headlights and blower turn off while cranking and come back on when not cranking).

Marlene sometimes complains that I love Mk2s more than her, which is absolutely _not_ true, but she still throws a no-start temper tantrum sometimes. Usually the battery is drained from sitting, but not this time (she's upping the ante). Yesterday I spent some quality time with her, and before that one ignition wire failed completely, I checked for vacuum leaks, confirmed 165 compression on all four cylinders, verified tan spark plug deposits and proper gaps, verified correct cam and ignition timing, checked the CSV works and doesn't leak, and verified 25 psi cold control pressure, 48 psi warm control pressure, and 70 psi system pressure. 

Today I paid a king's ransom for a set of Bosch wires, cap and rotor (the real deal), and that seems to have appeased her jealousy. She seems happy again, but the frequency valve is still silent ("what's wrong, Honey?" "_Nothing_"). So far I have confirmed the CTS is closed cold and open warm, the frequency valve is good (2.3 ohms), but its connector is not supplying any voltage with the fuel pump relay jumped. Bentley says that means the ECU is bad, but I'll run the rest of the static duty-cycle tests to be sure before getting another ECU. They're a dime a dozen on EBay, but how to tell if they're good?...

It's a shame because I just went through the whole O2 circuit last Summer and had it hovering nicely around 50% duty cycle .

Sheesh, women.


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

echassin said:


> ..."what's wrong, Honey?" "_Nothing_").


Sheesh, that's the Kiss of Death right there. If you had to ask you've already submitted to punishment.



echassin said:


> Sheesh, women.


Is there an echo in here... here... here... here...

:laugh:

How's Marlene's fuel? Probably *not* related to your current issue (sounds like you're already well into troubleshooting and sniffing ignition), I'm just curious. Old fuel will cause problems.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Eistreiber said:


> How's Marlene's fuel?


It's fine. I only drive the car about 10 miles once a month but I never keep more than a few gallons in the tank, so it cycles through every 6 months or so.

I did find the problem and it's one of those "never trust VW, Bentley, a previous owner, or yourself" scenarios. Bottom line it was a bad relay, in the wrong socket to boot.

This isn't really her thread, but since the Stepchild is on hold pending warmer weather, why not entertain ourselves,

Marlene in the "work" bay, which is not supposed to be :


Before doing anything, I took some time to translate the schematic into a step-by-step:


I only got to step 2 and noticed that "30" of the Lambda relay socket did not have constant 12V+. I took the socket out to check the wiring and saw that the wire colors did not match Bentley. The socket just to the left did have the correct colors, and that socket did have a relay in it, but it wasn't a Lambda relay:

It must have died since last July when I put in the correct ecu and adjusted the duty cycle.

I put the Lambda relay into the correct socket and presto! 50% duty cycle +/- 8, with a nice buzz from the frequency valve :

Not surprising because I just adjusted it 6 months ago, but the car runs perfect again.

Here's the correct relay arrangement for the car, which is not pictured in Bentley:

The Lambda relay was one over to the right, which is an unused socket and wasn't doing anything. The metal relay I pictured above was where the Lambda relay belongs, and is quite small and must have burned out shortly after I got the ECU on line. I only discovered it because an ignition wire failed and I started looking at things.

All buttoned up:


In my defense, the relays are not well labelled and not well documented anywhere, so ya kinda gotta figure some of them out on yer own :thumbdown:.

Oh well, all's well that ends well :wave:


----------



## 81MarsRedS (Apr 24, 2014)

echassin said:


> I assume you meant the Lambda relay? I swapped one in without any change.


Relay Shmeelay, I was close 

Happy to hear that it is Buzzing again :thumbup: Mine didn't buzz for 18+ years :screwy:


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Eistreiber said:


> How's Marlene's fuel? Probably *not* related to your current issue (sounds like you're already well into troubleshooting and sniffing ignition), I'm just curious. Old fuel will cause problems.


Poor thing hardly gets out at all. <sniff> Can't you just smell the varnish from here?  :laugh:



echassin said:


> It's fine. I only drive the car about 10 miles once a month but I never keep more than a few gallons in the tank, so it cycles through every 6 months or so.


Do you put stabilizer in it? Drygas?
Gas begins to degrade after about 3 months... plus sitting around with the tank mostly empty invites condensation (sitting in a drywalled garage helps there though)

Anybody that has an issue with Marlene pics in this thread can kindly GTFO.
There aren't enough Marlene pics as it is.


----------



## Eistreiber (Dec 10, 2006)

DiezNutz said:


> Poor thing hardly gets out at all. <sniff> Can't you just smell the varnish from here?


I can smell it here in CO and I'm at 5k ft and often walk-by stoned. Hey... the taxes are over a billion per year, the great thing about ripping off a stoner is that they just do not give a flying... hey, is that pizza?

Get my point?

E only has to put up with the putridity of Lake Michigan, so misses the comparison. Flush the gas out.



DiezNutz said:


> Do you put stabilizer in it? Drygas?


That. Or take it down to dry and empty every drive; carry a fresh gallon and when Marlene coughs the 3rd time pull off and pour in a gallon (treated) and drive home.



DiezNutz said:


> Anybody that has an issue with Marlene pics in this thread can kindly GTFO.
> There aren't enough Marlene pics as it is.


Did I miss something? (not like it'd be the 1st time). I appreciate Bob & thRHStCh, but hell they're Mk2's... which wouldn't exist if the Mk1's hadn't already set the bar.

Marlene... is the Unicorn.

Consider how she got the name [ E, dude... you have four pages worth of threads started. Homage, and a pink :beer: ]

Gets interesting about pg 3, post #50 or so; gets better after [pg 4 #78 is why there's some confusion about which -chassin is dishing up snark. Hi P! Oh E... you again...

If you missed it, Marlene the pristine '81 Scir S is named for Marlene Dietrich; who was also relatively high-maintenance, and considered worth the expense.



Eistreiber said:


> I submit for your consideration (in particular take note of the section on WWII):
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marlene_Dietrich





DiezNutz said:


> There aren't enough Marlene pics as it is.


Repeated for emphasis. :beer:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

A beeeoootiful day in Chicago (we get those once in a while :sly, and the garage in in the 60s, so I was able to get the last of the painting done.

The portion under the tail lights had a run in it that I scraped through trying the razor blade trick, so I 400 sanded it and resprayed with soft edges where the metal folds:

It came out great, and it'll perfect once cured and buffed.

Then I added flex agent and painted the kit. Here's my "paint booth":

I now know how to prop the door into the mud room just right so the fan draws air from the basement and there is no smell in the house at all, and very little smell in the garage while spraying. :thumbup:

The completed kit:


So here's where I'm at:

It's supposed to be gorgeous all weekend, and Monday's a holiday, so maybe I can get the car done. All that remains is the kit, fender liners, door sills, bumpers, and a small punch list.


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> A beeeoootiful day in Chicago (we get those once in a while :sly..


In between dodging bullets, sure. 



echassin said:


> The portion under the tail lights had a run in it that I scraped through trying the razor blade trick...


That reminds me... we (I) never finished this conversation.






I only have coarse and fine (curved didn't exist then).
I would highly suggest spraying out some runs and dirt on some test panels, and then practice with the files... before you commit to using them on the real thing. :thumbup:



echassin said:


> It's supposed to be gorgeous all weekend, and Monday's a holiday, so maybe I can get the car done. All that remains is the kit, fender liners, door sills, bumpers, and a small punch list.


Looking good man! :beer:
Take your time and don't rush it just because the weather is nice. Look at it this way, the nice weather wasn't a guarantee (you could be having a blizzard), so _anything_ you're able to accomplish is a bonus.
From that standpoint, you're already ahead of the game.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> In between dodging bullets, sure.


P and I were having a conversation about the number of shootings in Chicago, and it basically boiled down to wondering why we couldn't give two ishts about it. Chicago is a big city, so it might as well be some anonomous 3rd world ishthole somewhere.

The bleeding hearts here are crying "better schools!", "more jobs!", "more police!", "they need mentors!"

News flash: 

Good schools cost a lot of money, _tax money_, and if the inhabitants can't afford any taxes, well, duh. Do I wanna pay their taxes? Um, _no_.
We can't just "make" jobs. And if I need employees, I'm gonna skim the plentiful cream of the crop, not scrape the bottom of the barrel. Double Duh.
And the best police wanna work _here_ where we appreciate them. If they draw their gun, we ask wtf a guy did to deserve it, as opposed to blaming the officer. The bad places get the bad cops. Triple duh.
Mentors? Where the ufck are the guys who impregnated all those single moms? This is my problem? Duh, duh, duh, duh.

Hey, it's my thread, so nananaboo. See sig below.

I say let that isht sort itself out and stay away from it.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

*Sound of pin dropping*

Aaaaaanyhoo, another beeeooootiful day in Burr Ridge (_where there have been no shootings_ ), and I spent much of it tooling around, but I did get the kit arches, valences, and the bumpers mounted:




I'll do the side skirts, door sills, and door bottoms tomorrow (it's supposed to be nice weather for a 3rd day in a row )


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## 8716vrocco (Feb 12, 2001)

Looks really good, again! 

Do you have any collector/historic car insurance on your cars by chance? Just curious.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

No, I just have State Farm liability coverage.

I don't drive much (weird, huh? I don't even own a daily driver. P and I go everywhere in her MomBomb), and I have the house and the office insurred through the same agent, so each car costs peanuts.

I don't care so much about losing the value of a wrecked car. I'm far more worried about losing the actual car (like the GTI or Marlene), getting a check won't soothe that, which is why I don't take them out much.p


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> *Sound of pin dropping*
> 
> Aaaaaanyhoo, another beeeooootiful day in Burr Ridge (_where there have been no shootings_ )


:laugh::laugh: I had been taking a breather to ponder how best to respond to your post, without derailing this glorious thread to explore a sidebar on various social ills.
Maybe I'll just PM you.
Or maybe not. I just remembered that I'm asocial. :laugh:

See, I somewhat enjoy the irony of busting balls for things which I have absolutely no room to do so. 
Case in point: I live not (nearly GD) far (enough!) from Baltimore.
Chi-town has lots of murders, sure. But per capita? Not even close to Bodymore.

Anyway... weren't we talking about how to resolve paint runs?
Thoughts on the nib files? 
 :beer:


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> ...so each car costs peanuts.
> 
> I don't care so much about losing the value of a wrecked car. I'm far more worried about losing the actual car (like the GTI or Marlene), getting a check won't soothe that, *which is why I don't take them out much*.p


Yeah, we know. 
But seriously, collector car insurance also costs peanuts, and while getting a check won't replace your wrecked car, at least you get _some_ compensation, which could go to fund the repair or replacement project.
You might also consider other the forms of 'loss' than wrecks (e.g., theft) that you're covered for.
Currently 4 cars for a combined Replacement Coverage of $38K costs me like $300/yr and change.

Of course these plans routinely impose yearly mileage limits, but that wouldn't be a problem for you, would it HangarMeister.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> Thoughts on the nib files?


There are still some bits of crud in spots that aren't obvious, so I'll bring the car to Cincy, you bring the nib files, and we'll try them out?

I should check out the specialty insurance, I didn't know it was that cheap.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Okey Dokey! We'll call this pig "done", pending some punch list items, more buffing, and a good detailing which I'll do whenever I wanna putter around.

Overall:




Interior:

With the straight DIY dash and the new headliner, this is now a nice place to sit .

Bay:

Looks more "OEM plausible" without all the unused brackets still welded to the shell and all those delete plugs I had where I removed emissions hoses.

Bottom:



I decided I don't like the red overspray. I applied it on purpose to make the bottom look factory-ish, but I think I shoulda left it all Schutz color like I did on P's car. Maybe I'll tear the whole thing down and start ov... "Oh, Hai Honey! I didn't know you were reading over my shoulder, just kidding!"

Anyways, Toodaloo :wave:!


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## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

DiezNutz;103483377: said:


> See, I somewhat enjoy the irony of busting balls for things which I have absolutely no room to do so.
> Case in point: I live not (nearly GD) far (enough!) from Baltimore.
> Chi-town has lots of murders, sure. But per capita? Not even close to Bodymore.


Hey now, I lived in Baltimore for a few years, and only heard and/or witnessed about a dozen violent crimes, no big deal! :what:

Seriously though, I loved that city, but yeah, it was a little rough. I lived in the north-end near the Senator Theater, but worked for a while in the Advance Auto parts down in Dorchester heights, that was sketchy. Later I worked at Antwerpen Volkswagen down in Pasadena which was a little better. I spent a lot of time near Patterson park as well. (where the girl I was seeing lived) There were a lot of parts of town where I just didn't go, even if it made my commute a little quicker. Thankfully emerged from it unscathed. 

Brendan


----------



## Lord_Verminaard (Apr 6, 2004)

echassin said:


> Okey Dokey! We'll call this pig "done", pending some punch list items, more buffing, and a good detailing which I'll do whenever I wanna putter around.
> 
> Overall:





Looks amazing, E! Might I say better than the last time! (practice does make perfect I suppose)

Brendan


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## -camber (Jan 4, 2001)

Well done!! :beer::beer:

Now I'm just gonna go sit in the corner and sulk


----------



## All Eyez on me (May 13, 2010)

:thumbup:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Well done, indeed! Almost (and I said almost) makes me miss my Mk2...

...

...


...

Naaaa, nevermind, still love the green bean!



echassin said:


> I should check out the specialty insurance, I didn't know it was that cheap.


Yes, yes you should. Not only is it cheap, but you can specify the replacement value. Up to a certain amount, they don't even ask for comparable values. I think I have the Mk1 insured for a $10K replacement cost for ~$200/year. No specific mileage limits either, but is supposed to be used only for "occasional use, shows and club events." As other Eric mentions, should be not problem for you to insure the GTI and Marlene via this method.

FWIW, I use Hagerty. Good people. :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

What does Haggerty do if the car is damaged in such a way that I'll fix it (because that's what I would prefer) but a regular insurrer would just say it's totalled and give me a small consolation check? That's far more likely IMO than theft from my garage or a multi-cartwheeling crash where a check is written for the agreed upon valuation.


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

For a fender bender, just fix it yourself, and be done with it.

If you total the car, easy to do considering how big other cars on the road are, at least you get a check for the agreed value.


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

scirocco*joe said:


> Well done, indeed! Almost (and I said almost) makes me miss my Mk2... Naaaa, nevermind, still love the green bean!


There's no rule that says you can't have both. 
Think I'm giving up any of my Mk2's once I find my dream Mk1? Heeeeeellllll No! 
Maybe if you're all done globetrotting now, you can have a bit more stability and garage space. 



scirocco*joe said:


> FWIW, I use Hagerty. Good people. :thumbup:


I had Hagerty for many years, they're obviously one of the premier companies and I've never heard anything bad about them... but I never had a claim, either.
I don't think you can go wrong there.

Here's the thing though... over time, it started to dig at me more and more all of the extraneous crap that Hagerty (and by extension, my premium payments) were funding and sponsoring... and most of it was stuff I couldn't give two sh!ts about (e,g, hideous 70s Detroit turds). Meanwhile they barely recognize our VWs, because we don't represent what's "fashionable" in the collector market base.

And then there was the steady stream of glossy publications, which I'm sure weren't cheap to produce. And similarly devoid of nearly anything I care about.
Just _endless_ reminders that I evidently wasn't part of their "target demographic".

I thought, "Gee, can we cut down on some of this B.S. 'fluff' in favor of lower premiums, maybe??! It's friggin' insurance, not a country club!"
So that's exactly what I decided to do. By going with another company. That isn't all about the fanfare and pageantry and being rock stars.
Equals same benefits for less dollars.

My advice then would be to research and shop around. There are several reputable companies that offer the same basic service as Hagerty, each with their different perks and so forth.
YMMV :beer:



echassin said:


> What does Haggerty do if the car is damaged in such a way that I'll fix it (because that's what I would prefer) but a regular insurrer would just say it's totalled and give me a small consolation check? That's far more likely IMO than theft from my garage or a multi-cartwheeling crash where a check is written for the agreed upon valuation.


One thing that you'd want to consider (which is what I do) is carrying a high deductible like $1000 per car, which keeps your premiums even lower.
Since $1000 would usually cover a literal "fender bender", then it's a moot point.
For anything over that you can file for partial damage, it doesn't have to be "total writeoff or nothing".

Like you, I'd want to fix it myself. :thumbup: Or start over, if it's just too much.

As far as the whole theft thing, I'd get one of these for the garage. And the dog to back it up of course, otherwise it's an idle threat:












LT1M21Stingray said:


> For a fender bender, just fix it yourself, and be done with it.
> If you total the car, easy to do considering how big other cars on the road are, at least you get a check for the agreed value.


This too. :thumbup:

P.S. I didn't re-quote your pic... because sadness.


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Lord_Verminaard said:


> Hey now, I lived in Baltimore for a few years, and only heard and/or witnessed about a dozen violent crimes, no big deal! :what:
> 
> Seriously though, I loved that city, but yeah, it was a little rough. I lived in the north-end near the Senator Theater, but worked for a while in the Advance Auto parts down in Dorchester heights, that was sketchy. Later I worked at Antwerpen Volkswagen down in Pasadena which was a little better. I spent a lot of time near Patterson park as well. (where the girl I was seeing lived) There were a lot of parts of town where I just didn't go, even if it made my commute a little quicker. Thankfully emerged from it unscathed.
> 
> Brendan


It's gotten worse since you left, just check the stats. I think it ranked as #2 murder capital in 2016 (per capita). Really spiked up after the big riot and pharmacy thefts a couple of years ago fueled a lot of subsequent drug and turf wars. There are much bigger cities that have many more total murders of course (like Chicago), but it's the _rate_ that's alarming, and an increase in robbery/mugging-related homicides of innocent (but possibly naive) peeps.

Sad really, Bmore also has a lot of good things to offer, and there's more activities and things we _used_ to do, that we'd like to be able to take the kids to see and do now, than we have being doing out of this overhanging storm cloud of safety concerns.
The running joke at our house is, "yeah that does look cool, but is it worth getting shot over?" 
Given the choice of the same event at another less-troubled venue elsewhere, we've sometimes opted for the latter.

Re: Senator... so surely you had the misfortune at some point of popping into this s***hole on York Rd called Favorites Pub/Craig's. I think it was a local hookup favorite for desperate Loyola (and some Towson) students.
My (not-yet) BIL used to tend bar there for extra income back in the day. Admittedly, we'd go there sometimes to see him for 50c Taco Tuesdays, and maybe play the 80s Golden Tee arcade game. Needed a shower as soon as you got out of the place though. A real shower, not one from the drunk kids p!ssing in the bushes outside on any given visit. I have never seen such an amassed size and quantity of dust bunnies and cobwebs, and general filth, especially in the rafters (don't look up), I mean it was really quite impressive in it's own disgusting way.
I think it finally got shut down a few years ago for serving one too many minors.

Around 2001 or so, my future-BIL met one of his "girlfriends" (i.e., serviceable young woman of questionable virtue and morals) there I think.
[Friendly girl, unpretentious and likeable, but not quite the "bring home to Mom" type. Kind of... eh "rough trade" one might say.]

I remember he was going to dump her right before Christmas, until he found out she'd got him a nice DVD player.
Then he was like, "What do I do? I mean, I really want that DVD player..."
So he decided to hold off and dumped her 3 months later.

We weren't really sure at the time, but I guess he'd thereby established 3 months as an acceptable statute of limitations on a gifted DVD player.

Good times, lol. :beer:


----------



## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> There are still some bits of crud in spots that aren't obvious, so I'll bring the car to Cincy, you bring the nib files, and we'll try them out?


Deal. Assuming I can make it. And you _really_ want to try them out on the car. And you bring all the various sandpaper, compound, etc. you'll need to finish the job.
[So if you're serious, we may need to make some plans. Wait.. what? :what: PAFTW!! ]

E, it looks awesome, and I think you'll be well-pleased with the urethane as time goes on.
I can't wait to see it in person! 
So I can _really_ pick it apart. :laugh: :laugh:
j/k.
:beer:

P.S. - your front bumper is crooked.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

DiezNutz said:


> your front bumper is crooked


Nu-_uuuuh_, no it's _nahhhaaaat_

More perfect weather, so we've been taking it everywhere and I like it a lot. I think that annoying rattle in the dash is from those tin vanes in the heater box, which will be fun to get to :facepalm:. It only happens when the engine's cold; as the engine mount rubber warms up and softens, the rattle goes away (at least I _think_ that's why)


----------



## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

DiezNutz said:


> There's no rule that says you can't have both.
> Think I'm giving up any of my Mk2's once I find my dream Mk1? Heeeeeellllll No!
> Maybe if you're all done globetrotting now, you can have a bit more stability and garage space.


Well, to be honest, the Mk2 is now further down my vintage "to purchase" list:

BMW 2002
Porsche 914
Triumph Dolomite Sprint

I'd place another Mk2 16V on the list after the Dolomite Sprint




DiezNutz said:


> I had Hagerty for many years, they're obviously one of the premier companies and I've never heard anything bad about them... but I never had a claim, either.
> I don't think you can go wrong there.
> 
> Here's the thing though... over time, it started to dig at me more and more all of the extraneous crap that Hagerty (and by extension, my premium payments) were funding and sponsoring... and most of it was stuff I couldn't give two sh!ts about (e,g, hideous 70s Detroit turds). Meanwhile they barely recognize our VWs, because we don't represent what's "fashionable" in the collector market base.
> ...


Curiously, mind if I ask who you went with?



echassin said:


> Nu-_uuuuh_, no it's _nahhhaaaat_
> 
> More perfect weather, so we've been taking it everywhere and I like it a lot. I think that annoying rattle in the dash is from those tin vanes in the heater box, which will be fun to get to :facepalm:. It only happens when the engine's cold; as the engine mount rubber warms up and softens, the rattle goes away (at least I _think_ that's why)


Sometimes I wonder if your need for perfection creates a downward spiral of perfection that is unachievable. Just sayin'.


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

scirocco*joe said:


> Sometimes I wonder if your need for perfection creates a downward spiral of perfection that is unachievable. Just sayin'.


Perfect certainly is a goal, but I mostly just like improving stuff, skills, etc... whenever I get time to putz around.

P and I went to a local quarry to look at some stuff for the yard and they weighed the car with the gas tank almost empty:

2040 pounds. 

I was hoping for 2000, so not hitting that psychologically even mark is disappointing. The only way I could achieve that _reasonably_ is to remove the wing, the body kit, delete the rear seat, and remove the bumpers, which would total about 100 pounds. I won't do that because I like that at first glance the car still looks complete, it's only when you go to use stuff that you realize so much stuff is missing :sly:


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Punch list items attended to over the past few days.

First, I put the 5mm spacers back onto the front:



It's a subtle change, but now the wheel arch shadow on top of the tires is similar front and back.

Next I took care of the dash rattle, it was the door that determines whether heat goes to the foot well or the center vents:

(sorry for the lousy pic). I glued foam into the gap and now the rattle is gone. This wasn't a generic little buzz like we all get, it sounded like coins rattling around in the dash, and it ruined the sound of the 16V, which is one of the few things I like about a 16V . I'm glad I didn't need to take out the heater box and redo it *phew*.

BTW, I know this wouldn't be for everyone, but the position of the door as shown in the pic will allow you to get footwell heat and defogger function by closing the center vents in the dash, and opening the center vent favors that vent, so that the car is reasonably comfortable in cold weather with no dash servos, vacuum valve, vacuum tank and associated plumbing, check valve, etc...

Here is the center console in its final iteration:

At first glance it looks plausibly like a no-options GTI does. The cubby is made of DVD boxes, which have the same texture as the console, and the boxes have hinged edges which can be retained as lips to ensure strength when it's all glued together :thumbup:

Anyhoo, the car's done pending inevitable failures . I learned a lot this time around: how to deal with urethane, how to replace and tune the DPR, how to make bubble flares, how to service a proportioning valve, plus I have a nice adjustable tiptissery that takes up very little space when dissassembled.


----------



## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Sixty Three Pages!


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

*Hatch washer delete*

Eric is the bomb diggity for such an undertaking like this. Cant say mine will be as detailed and all original but mine is moded but so much as you could tell easily acept for obvious things like Ecodes. So my question is how do I get the hatch nozzle off?!


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

markeysscirocco said:


> how do I get the hatch nozzle off?!


I don't recall that it was anything special, I think it just snaps into position and I yanked it out. I may have broken it, but I wasn't keeping it anyways.



TBerk said:


> Sixty Three Pages!


I wonder if I should've started a second thread for the resto-redux. The thread is a bit cumbersome now...


----------



## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Small update, I've had some time this week to get niggly stuff on the cars, and the Stepchild even got some love, in the form of parts that I had but for various reasons didn't install during assembly:

I forgot I had the one piece speedo cable and the new shifter boot. The U-joint boot is NOS but came from Far Far Away and I didn't want it to delay progress.

Speedo cable:


U-joint boot:




Shifter boot:


That is all, carry on :wave:


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## scirocco*joe (Feb 23, 2002)

Sure is purrty.


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## rabfan (Feb 7, 2005)

So I have to admit I read the first page and then skipped to the end....What a transformation! The red paint really shines up nice! 
I promise I'll go back and read all 63 pages soon.
I like the GTI in the background.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

rabfan said:


> The red paint really shines up nice!


Thanks, most of it shined up nice , After some intense engine heat and Sun exposure, 400 sanding marks started to show through on the hood, so just before Cincy I hit it with a DA and 1200, buffed and waxed it, and it looked great...

...until the trip to Cincy, whereupon the engine heat aqnd Sun exposure repeated the effect:


AFAIK the problem is that I sanded the whole car down to OEM primer before the 2nd repaint last Winter, except the hood which looked pretty good. The hood had been repainted and cleared once before I got it, I primed and painted it five years ago, and repainted it again last winter. I did scuff the base with 400 prior to adding layers, but I estimate there were about 20 total layers of stuff, which was just too much.

Soooo...

Last Monday off with the hood:


And tape off the backside to protect it:


Tuesday, 80 grit DA sand everything off, trying to keep the OEM base primers, which are good stuff:


Wednesday, 3 layers of primer and a marker coat:


Thursday, 400 block sand the primer, and hand sand each ufcking slot:

After the pic I covered the scars with a bit of primer to even the gray color.

Friday, empty and prep the garage, 3M scuff pad the new bits of primer, and lay on 3-4 layers of Urethane:




Wait a week for the stuff to cure, leaving the hood in the Sun as much as possible to bake the isht out of it, the today 1500 DA dry sand, coarse buff, fine buff, wax, reinstall, drive around in the hot Sun to see if Ogd forbid the problem repeats itself, leave satisfied:


Hopefully that's problem solved...

That's it till the next failure :wave:


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## 81MarsRedS (Apr 24, 2014)

You make it look so easy..............like you have done it before 

Very nice :thumbup:


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## cuppie (May 4, 2005)

Eric, beautiful paintwork. :thumbup: Hope this one holds up. 

I have only one question: 
Why in the ufck are you still running sealed beams on the Stepchild? Do you not like seeing in the dark? 
(I feel like we've had this conversation before, and you said that "it's never really dark here" - and, I get that. But, still!)


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## 81MarsRedS (Apr 24, 2014)

something I have never understood :screwy:


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Dr FrankenBerk doth pontificate:


This thread is a service to All Things Scirocco. 

Not only does the owner of a Scirocco let us in on some of his hijinks, but he's been pretty good in photo-documenting the process.

These Threads of his will be fodder for the future, 
at least in terms of keeping Sciroccos on the road, 
and keeping em purdy while we're at it.

(Dude needed not have deleted the Heater Temperature Control Slider altogether, IMHO, but he's human after all...) *D



Besides, he's been helping me with my spelling: _ufcking, isht_ & even _Ogd_ 

8])


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

TBerk said:


> These Threads of his will be fodder for the future,


Oh, they're fodder _now_. :laugh:

Sometimes of the unintended variety.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

scirocco*joe said:


> Well, to be honest, the Mk2 is now further down my vintage "to purchase" list:


*-* A1 Mk1 1981 Scirocco, Cosmos in color, and I had one. (till the Sky caved in & the Earth split open...) 
*-* Scirocco Stable Mate: *Alfa Romeo 2000 GT Veloce* - Pic" https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...9-Alfa-Romeo-GT-Veloce-Red-Front-Angle-st.jpg , "Penned by the young Giorgetto Giugiaro while at Bertone, the Tipo 105/115 coupes was an innovative design that’s earned its place as one of the all-time great Alfa Romeos."

Hmm, after that it become less a need and more a filling of niches: 

*-* 4th Gen Lincoln Continental 

*-* "something to haul stuff around in, Utility Pick Up Truck... (I'm devolving a suitability towards keeping GMC stuff running past the 500K mark...) 

*-* And I suppose, given a no-consideration budget, I'd reproduce a working DS Citroen Station Wagon, to honor the Old Man... (They can be _so_ much fun in back-woods twisties...)



scirocco*joe said:


> Sometimes I wonder if your need for perfection creates a downward spiral of perfection that is unachievable. Just sayin'.


Shaddup. 
Shaddup, Shut'n Up...


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

cuppie said:


> Eric, beautiful paintwork. :thumbup: Hope this one holds up.
> 
> I have only one question:
> *Why in the ufck are you still running sealed beams on the Stepchild?* Do you not like seeing in the dark?
> (I feel like we've had this conversation before, and you said that "it's never really dark here" - and, I get that. But, still!)


Ahem...


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

TBerk said:


> Ahem...


Why? *WHY?!*

Well, I'll tell ya: because my cars have a feature called "brights" and I don't recall a situation, ever, where I found myself urgently noting "uh oh, I'd better turn on those brights!"

H whatevers= a solution without a real problem, IMO. Kinda like replacing the CIS just because EFI is available and arguably better.

*Dons Nomex underwear*


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

Um, OK- (wow)


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

echassin said:


> Wait a week for the stuff to cure, leaving the hood in the Sun as much as possible to bake the isht out of it, the today 1500 DA dry sand, coarse buff, fine buff, wax, reinstall, drive around in the hot Sun to see if Ogd forbid the problem repeats itself, leave satisfied:
> 
> 
> Hopefully that's problem solved...
> ...


Nope, no good. Now it's _too_ smooth. No way it would have come out of the factory like that. 

These are the kind of results that are only made possible by high-functioning OCD. :laugh: :beer:


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## 81MarsRedS (Apr 24, 2014)

echassin said:


> Why? *WHY?!*
> 
> Well, I'll tell ya: because my cars have a feature called "brights" and I don't recall a situation, ever, where I found myself urgently noting "uh oh, I'd better turn on those brights!"
> 
> ...


Sorry Doc, not good enough reason for me 

You have grafted round headlights onto a S2, thus you have made the lights a focal point. It is your responsibility to run true German Hella H4's & H1's 
I believe this is written in some secret Scirocco code, but you will have to look it up.

Furthermore, I don't care if you have removed all the headlight wiring, fuses and switch or if the car never see's the dark.
You will not disgrace that pretty car with cheap sealed beam lights that will only help you if you drive underwater :what:

:laugh::beer::laugh:


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

81MarsRedS said:


> ... thus you have made the lights a focal point. It is your responsibility to run true German ...
> :laugh::beer::laugh:


He doesn't have any true appreciation for true German stuff...he's French.


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## pchassin (Aug 2, 2013)

In other news, we are more interested in teaching young L how to drive in the big, bad world. L got to drive us all into the city today, we went to visit my bro. He did fine on the expressways and dealing with merging and changing highways, etc.

This however, was his first time in the real city. He had until today thought driving in the "downtowns" of suburbia was akin to city driving. 

Along the way, there's this stretch where the city turned a section of the road into the "bike lane" (cars are generally parked on the full expanse of that section, so the bicyclists gotta swerve back onto the main section of the road). Some dude on a bike was going parallel with us and suddenly opted to veer directly in front of L right as the light turned green and when L was just picking up speed.
No smeared roadkill, but for the lack of any real acceleration and some alert parents who were starting to make loud sounds. 
A great intro into the joys of city driving.
Darwin award recipients.:screwy:
Can't avoid them.


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## TBerk (Oct 9, 2000)

(If you do end up riding over the top of some of us two-wheelers, be sure to stop an pick up the bent pieces- Recycling Appropriately...)


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

pchassin said:


> He doesn't have any true appreciation for true German stuff...he's French.


Whaddaya expect... even their headlights are yella'!

:laugh: <ducking>


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ouch


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## DiezNutz (Sep 26, 2006)

Gee, we _was_ talkin' about headlights and all, and... well shucks, what's a fella to do...

Hey I don't think you're yella', E. Not when it comes to working on your cars, and the wide array of meticulous projects you regularly tackle. That takes guts. :thumbup:

_Driving_ them... well...


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## marcie10 (May 6, 2014)

*One piece speedo cable*



echassin said:


> Small update, I've had some time this week to get niggly stuff on the cars, and the Stepchild even got some love, in the form of parts that I had but for various reasons didn't install during assembly:
> 
> I forgot I had the one piece speedo cable and the new shifter boot. The U-joint boot is NOS but came from Far Far Away and I didn't want it to delay progress.
> 
> ...


I also want to replace the 2 speedo cables and eliminate the counter box. What models came with the single cable so I can order one?

Marcie


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I'm not sure, we got a one piece off of our other 16V when we converted it to automatic. Maybe one of the warehouse places has them?


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## CodeMan (May 12, 2006)

marcie10 said:


> I also want to replace the 2 speedo cables and eliminate the counter box. What models came with the single cable so I can order one?
> 
> Marcie


http://www.germanautoparts.com/productdisplay/121487

:thumbup:


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

I believe S&Pautomotive.com as well Marcie 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> Tuesday, 80 grit DA sand everything off, trying to *keep the OEM base primers, which are good stuff*:


Reposting this. Thanks for reminding us.

Way too many people bring the panels back to bare metal without doing proper prep work, and rust just creeps back. Always.


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## markeysscirocco (Oct 23, 2006)

Yep, that's why if your gonna do metal etch prime it first. But if you have any kind of rust your gonna need ospho rust converter or equal to. Then lay down primer seal. They make colors close to your color scheme.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

I think one advantage of the bare metal approach is the ability to use judicious blasting or paint stripper to get accumulated layers of paint off. Sanding isn't practical in tight or convoluted areas like the engine bay or the jams. 

It'd be nice to have a single base product that is all things etcher/primer/sealer, easily sanded, white like OEM and doesn't cost too much. Is there such a thing?


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

echassin said:


> It'd be nice to have a single base product that is all things etcher/primer/sealer, easily sanded, white like OEM and doesn't cost too much. Is there such a thing?


Actually there is. The problem is that it does not last.

Cheap, fast and reliable. Pick any two options. :laugh:


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## Smooremin (Jan 11, 2006)

Bump as I was introduced to this thread this evening. Any updates?! Would love to see this in person


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Car's snug-as-a-bug sideways on dollys in the back of the garage for the winter. It's "done" so I haven't touched it in a while. The last task is to remove some nibs on the roof, but buffing is one of my least favorite tasks and it keeps ending up at the bottom of my to-do list.

Where in Chicago are you?


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## Smooremin (Jan 11, 2006)

echassin said:


> Where in Chicago are you?


I am right in the heart of the city, currently in Wicker Park. :thumbup:

Mark, from Canadia, sent me this pic and told me that all these cars were local. I said I need to be friends with them. Then he told me it was just one person :laugh::thumbup:










:wave:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Smooremin said:


> I am right in the heart of the city, currently in Wicker Park. :thumbup:
> 
> Mark told me it was just one person


Technically only 3 of those are "mine" (depending on how much you're willing to split hairs ).

I lived at Grand and Noble 30 years ago.


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## Smooremin (Jan 11, 2006)

echassin said:


> I lived at Grand and Noble 30 years ago.


Nice! I live about 500 feet from teh start of Noble :thumbup:

Would love to check out your cars on a nice summer day :thumbup:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

We have a pre-Cincy gathering here most years, check in then :thumbup:


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## Brixy (May 30, 2014)

echassin said:


> Technically only 3 of those are "mine" (depending on how much you're willing to split hairs ).
> 
> I lived at Grand and Noble 30 years ago.


Nice line up! So Eric i believe I see Marlene and your Red Headed Stepchild but there is a third in this group which is “yours”? I do believe I also see one of Fredy’s, the others are a mystery.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Brixy said:


> I see Marlene and your Red Headed Stepchild but there is a third in this group which is “yours”? I do believe I also see one of Fredy’s, the others are a mystery.





Smooremin said:


>


Proper [re]introductions are in order then:
1) Stepchild (this thread)
2) Mark's black built 8V
3) "Bob", Petra's 16V, technically not mine: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...I-Get-Here-quot-Chick-s-Scirocco-build-thread
4) Fred's 16V mk1
5) Marlene: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...-september-(1981-that-is)&highlight=september
6) My younger boy's Cabby, technically not mine anymore: https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5899187-92-Cabby-refurb-photo-album
7) The GTI (we just named it "The GTI" ): https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...in-November-(1984-that-is)&highlight=november


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Update!

There was stand-still traffic on the way to Cincy and under the blazing Sun the car cut out a few times, not enough to properly test for anything. The other thing the car did was stall under maximum braking after hard pulls. The OEM transfer pump still runs but prevailing opinion from those symptoms was that it was nearing its end. Evidently the little header tank was vapor locking in the heat from lack of cool fuel being fed into it, and it was getting drawn down during the hard pulls, faster than gravity could fill it through the transfer pump's gears.

Out of shame for having kept anything with 200000 miles on it, I replaced the last of the original fuel system parts: new VDO transfer pump, new Bosch main pump, NOS fuel pump relay, and I replaced the last few original hoses. I needed a new fuel sender O-ring because one I installed in 2015 was already dry-rotted, and that there is exactly why I try to re-use OEM parts even if they're old. I'd already replaced the fuel tank and some of the lines, so now the fuel system is entirely up-to-date with brand-name stuff.

I gave the car the most severe test I've ever done: I drove it hard till the oil was hot, then I let it idle on the hot driveway under a 90 degree Sun fror 45 minutes. The water temp stayed stable, but for the last 15 minutes the radiator fan was running full-time. The engine idled and revved perfectly the whole time so I think I fixed it.

Pics or it didn't happen:








There's some non-OEM things going on: first, I put a pigtail EC3 connector on the pump which makes things a lot more convenient. It'll run 60 amps continous at 12 volts, it won't disconnect by accident, and it won't corrode. Also, for some time now I've been making the short high-pressure hose from the accumulator to the pump with stainless-sheathed hose I got at a race shop years ago when stuff was _cough_ still made in the U.S., and I used smooth clamps. I think it's more durable than the unsheathed rubber OEM pipe. The pump bracket's rubber isolators are for a four stroke RC plane engine and they've held up great for almost ten years now.

The in-tank setup:








New VDO pump, new submersible hoses, new sender O-ring (inexplicably omitted), and continuity verified at all connections.

During the stress test:








_Insert throaty 9A sound_

That is all. Carry on _wave_

Edit: same question I always struggle with: one of the last critical OEM items on the car with 200,000 miles on it is the ICM. They're available new, but from, um, Asian sounding manufacturers... In the absence of an NOS part, do I continue to risk the OEM unit or do I use a new part that is probably carp?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

What's an ICM?

My 1977 Ford had A/C problems when I got it 11 years ago so I started replacing stuff. I got an NOS HVAC control panel from eBay so it looked nice. I got an NOS vacuum manifold hose assembly from eBay. I got a new genuine Ford vacuum switch that was apparently used on decades of FOMO cars. I couldn't find an NOS or new genuine HVAC fan switch. Wanting to have all brand new parts, I bought it a new switch from A***zone. 

Fast forward a year or so and it won't work on all speeds. I replaced the resistor. No change. Put in the original switch from 1977 and it worked like a champ. I did have the connector fry a few years later. I guess that's a common problem because Dorman and others make replacement pigtails. I loath cutting harnesses but will do so if there is no other way. Anywho, the original 1977 HVAC fan switch is still working great. 

I also had problems with A***zone ignition wires. It was cutting out when hot. I replaced the A***zone cap and rotor with Motorcraft but that only helped a little. It was when I replaced the A***zone ignition wires with Ford Racing wires that it stopped miss-firing when hot. 

It's my daily driver that I can park anywhere. It's ugly but gets me around so I try to buy OE supplier or Genuine Ford parts for it.

Some parts store special parts have lasted but I'd rather not take a chance now unless they have OE parts. 

-OE


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

ICM=ignition control module; I'm keeping the OEM for now because of stories like yours, and many similar stories of my own.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Current garage layout:








I think it's perfect, but Petra is new-car-shopping and I have been reliably informed that said new car _will_ get a garage spot.

Sadly, one of these cars is not like the others and it has to go...


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## joeytwowheels (Sep 12, 2014)

Hey Eric - I've been on here since '14 but not very active and I can't message you or comments on classifieds. I'm in the western suburbs, like you, and I'd like to come check out your Scirocco. Please message me, you likely have more classifieds privileges than me. 🙃 Thanks, Joe


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Joe I'm sending you a PM, LMK if you can't retrieve it.


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

Update, BaT has accepted our Red-Headed Stepchild for listing; here are the videos that users inevitably request:


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

BaT listing videos, continued:











I found myself viewing my own videos out of nostalgia... This will leave me the GTI and the AWD Whatchamacallit, which should be manageable for the foreseeable future.


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## tuiterwyk (Feb 10, 2008)

In case someone has missed it....








No Reserve: 2.0L-Powered 1986 Volkswagen Scirocco 16V 5-Speed


Bid for the chance to own a No Reserve: 2.0L-Powered 1986 Volkswagen Scirocco 16V 5-Speed at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. Lot #93,711.




bringatrailer.com


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## echassin (Dec 28, 2005)

D'uh on my part, thanks Ted


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## California 16v (Jul 20, 2008)

This Scirocco sold for a very respectful price of $21,500.00 on BAT 😎
Congratulations Eric and hopefully we will get see car again in the future 🛣


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## roccodingo (Apr 25, 2004)

Congrats on the sale Eric, great result that was truly worthy of the fine automobile that the car is.

The pic of the garage on BAT looks to empty for you bud.


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