# Bigger Cam?



## seymore15074 (Jul 23, 2007)

Are there any bigger camshafts available for the 2.0T FSI?


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## Hendrik (Sep 13, 2008)

You can deal with 3 different cams available for the TFSI...

1.) OEM KO4 camshaft..
2.) Schrick..
3.) Catcams..

So long,
Hendrik


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

im 99.9999999999% sure most people who have taken an S3 head apart and compared the cams to the "de-tuned" bpy heads have come to the conclusion that the cams are the same.

unless your piping and everything is opened up nice and wide, and your engine cant flow as fast as your turbo, cams shouldnt be next on your list.

if you where building an all motor car, cams would def be high up on your list of things to do. Seeing as your forcing air into the cylinder at a much higher pressure than it would ever be able to do under it's own power, they wont help you out much unless you have done a ton of other work to maximize the air flow and fueling.

if a stock cammed BPY with a BT kit can outrun its own fueling, i dont see why anyone wants cams till there is fueling ready for it. :beer:


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## seymore15074 (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks! That's the kind of information I'm looking for. Basically, I told my gearhead brother and father that I need to check my cam follower and I might need a new cam. They're response is basically why would you put the same size one in? I'm now left wondering the same. Would there be any difference at all? 

I'm running APR stage 2 and will be putting on the HPFP and intercooler at the same time as checking out the follower/cam. I'd like to go stage 3 someday but the funds have been allocated elsewhere for the immediate future.

Any more information would be greatly appreciated. :beer:


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

well, yeah, cams would get you a bit of power, sure... If you where tuned for it. And APR is tuned for the stock cams.

that and your idle would probably suck balls compared to stock. :laugh:

unless your going to be dropping a ton of money on your ride and want to get every lost drop of power out of her, stock cams are capable of PLENTY of power.


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## Joeydabomb (May 1, 2009)

seymore15074 said:


> They're response is basically why would you put the same size one in? I'm now left wondering the same.


Well I've got a good reason for you...

Aftermarket cams...

http://www.kmdtuning.com/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=996


Stock...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4770007


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## seymore15074 (Jul 23, 2007)

Joeydabomb said:


> Well I've got a good reason for you...
> 
> Aftermarket cams...
> 
> ...


That is a good reason.

Anyway, last night I decided to check my follower and see where I stand. At 55K miles, it was nice and flat with a "polished" silver color on the top and a similar shinny-looking dot underneath. It looked way better than I expected and the cam looks fine. So no new cam for me...

I put on my APR HPFP; it was a good day. :beer:


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## GimmieA40 (Jun 5, 2009)

Its knowledge and attention to detail that sets the fast cars apart from the rest of the world. This looks like a good opportunity to discuss some of the theory that makes these cars go. So let’s start a discussion about the effects of camshafts and engine management in a pressurized motor.

I’m hoping to spark the interest of people in the know and learn a bit myself.

Camshafts in a forced induction application: For now I think specifics will hurt us so let’s try and break this into 2 separate actions; Cylinder filling and evacuation. On the filling side of things, boost allows you to force air in quickly, the more boost you add the faster the cylinder fills. Adding boost generates heat and cylinder pressure, or dynamic compression. You run big intercoolers to help curb detonation while filling the cylinder to as much as your gas and motor can handle. By changing a few properties of the camshaft you can make you intake valve open faster, stay open later, and lift farther making it easier and faster to fill the cylinder. In this respect you can make more power over a stock cam at the same boost level since the cylinder has just been made easier to fill, adding to mixture in the cylinder and increased dynamic compression. Hopefully you’d be able to dial back on the boost a bit and run the same gas. This can also be done without significantly affecting the idle quality. Forced induction motors have little overlap, one of the contributing factors to a crappy idle. On the evacuation side of things on a stock cammed motor, you can add all the boost in the world, but that’s not helping get the used up mixture out of the motor. I see potential gains here, by creating a more aggressive opening intake lobe without increasing intake duration allowing you to open the exhaust valve earlier and later. Just like putting that APR full exhaust on, you are helping the motor make power by making it easier to breathe.

That said we face two problems: Cost and Tuning. It’s been pointed out that the only cams available for the 2.0t are mega money. $$$ permitting I say it’s worth it, but $$$ not permitting, yes there are other things you can do, but if you are looking for all out performance, stock cams simply will not do. On to tuning, this is where I am looking to learn.

So, we go out and buy the APR stage 2 tune and cam it up a bit. I know little of how these engine management systems work, but here’s what I can surmise. There are two parts, the computer and the sensors. The computer is trained to add fuel, boost, and timing, based on the readings from the sensors. APR for example, I can guess take the stock tune, increases the boost, relaxes the timing to curb detonation, and changes the “normal” sensor parameters. That said, I expect that the computer adds fuel, boost, and timing, based on the airflow readings compared to the throttle position. This is why your car works okay when you leave the beach and go to Colorado. You’ll be down on power, but that’s because there is less air. I don’t expect you’d get a check engine light. I also believe the new tune loosens up the parameters that the computer expects to see from the sensors. If I were to change up the lobe profiles, the motor would not know any difference other than a change in elevation. That’s assuming you didn’t get all crazy. Now if you put a cam in that allows the airflow to exceed the computers preset notion of what the motor “should” be doing you’ll need that custom tune. 

So, my question is, Do we have anyone on this board that is intimately familiar with making tunes? I’d love to hear the specifics of how such things are addressed. I’d also like to learn about how the computer REALLY manages the motor.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

PM unittronic. they do all the custom stuff ive seen.

cams are still useless without the fuel. stock cams outrun our fueling at like 500-550 WHP if im not mistaken, so aftermarket cams wont help unless your wanting to really cut back the boost, and keep the power to a certain limit... but then the cost of the cams is pointless.


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

the shrick are crazy expensive... and they're 246/252. the 11mm lift is nice though. Upside to it not being a huge jump from stock cams would be that i've heard they're running fine bolted on without tuning changes but let's see some more aggressive cams and see what happens. I haven't looked into what catcams has out but i heard ferrea is coming out with some nice ones too, although i'm sure (although promising) they will be pricey too.

Krieger makes a good point though, we are very fueling limited and in reality people shouldn't really be worrying too much about cams unless they are either: A) trying to squeeze the most HP they can out of a 28rs-3071 size turbo or B) got their fueling situation figured out and trying to pass 550 or something in that neighborhood. And about the 500-550whp on stock fueling.. that's not only pushing it, but just down right crazy talk. I went lean and mean on rs4's and the apr HPFP WITH meth injection making 470 but there are other upgrades that can bring you closer to the 550whp mark without adding extra auxiliary fueling systems. I think I have that figured out right now but i'm waiting...and waiting...for a tune from unitronics to put it on the dyno and see what It's capable of making at or under a 12.0 AFR


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## seymore15074 (Jul 23, 2007)

Does anyone have a sound/video clip of any 2.0T's with a different cam? Do they sound badder-asster?


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## orange1218 (Mar 23, 2007)

Good read here...subscribed for more info.



seymore15074 said:


> Do they sound badder-asster?


:laugh: :laugh: ^my new signature


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

seymore15074 said:


> Does anyone have a sound/video clip of any 2.0T's with a different cam? Do they sound badder-asster?


Aggressive





Mild


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## jpiwko58 (Dec 25, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> Aggressive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


any vids of it at idle? and what cams are those? besides cams do they have head work done? ie bigger valves/port polish/valves spring&seats?


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## seymore15074 (Jul 23, 2007)

Arin, that's way cool! I'd also like to hear them idling. What kind of 1/4 times do those cars run?

Also, while you're here, I was planning on APR stage 3 in my Jetta sometime here, how do the stage 3 Jettas compare to the GTIs?


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## GimmieA40 (Jun 5, 2009)

Interesting! So if you are fuel limited without a viable secondary source yet, it seems camshafts can be useful.

With unlimited financial resources, your quest now becomes to make as much average horsepower as possible, and produce the widest highest torque graph you can. When you run out of gas it's time to look elsewhere.

Now I am still really interested in hearing about how, the computer manages the engines.


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## billyVR6 (May 8, 2000)

The OEM Naturally Aspirated FSI cams have more lift - 11.100mm Intake - 10.100mm Exhaust.

How much duration does the stock BPY T-FSI cams have?


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## LEWXCORE (Jul 7, 2007)

in the APR stage 4 video what cam's are those being described "aggressive"?


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