# Old Cam Followers - Let's send them to VW!



## A2L90E (Apr 1, 2002)

I had my cam follower changed a few weeks back. Fortunately it was in decent shape. In reading all of the horror stories about the cam followers, has anyone ever mailed their old cam follower to VW with a letter explaining your overall disappointment with the design flaw? 

I would be interested in hearing if anyone has done this and received a response from VW. 

I hope to shortly draft a letter and include the letter, cam follower, and as many posts with pictures that I can find on Vortex of bad cam followers.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

id be down for that. i now have 2 or 3 in my glove box.

if we get a bunch of them together, and send a few a day, along with pictures and mileage, oil used, etc. id bet we'd get some kind reaction.

id actually prefer to send it to a major new organization... the media helped the SI crowd get their transmissions warrantied and whatnot when Honda hung them out to dry.

btw, id put money down that people in behind me and say this is retarded and wont fix anything. All i have to say is, neither has bitching on the interwebz.


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## x9t (Sep 19, 2005)

Im down. I only have one so far.. but plan to keep replacing them.

JT


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

My camshaft, follower and HPFP are at the dealer. No need to send them in for me....VW knows the deal....they just don't like talking about this dirty little secret. All I see coming is a suppliment in the owners manual as a new maintenance item that we as owners will have to pay out of pocket. Thanks VW! :screwy:


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

I live a few minutes from their US headquarters. We could always just drop them off.


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## WallyGTI (Dec 29, 2007)

Didn't someone start this exact same thread like a year ago?

I think it would be awesome though.


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## cmosentine (Jun 3, 2008)

Owners of DSGs did not get any reaction from VW until NHSTA and the media get involved. In that case, it was arguably a safety issue whereas this is "simply" a somewhat shoddy product. The only thing I think VW cares about is limiting $ outflow. 

If they cared, they would at least issue a TSB requiring inspection at regular intervals, like the "clogged sunroof drain issue" which they got sued. I received a TSB in the mail regarding this.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

getting fuel cuts or possibly getting stranded on the highway from a nuked camshaft are safety issues in my opinion.

****, a family looking for a reliable and fuel efficient car to invest in, only to have it fail miserably in less than 100,000 miles is bad enough...


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## rick89 (Dec 2, 2008)

i hope this works if you guys do plan to do it. I guess if anything does happen i won't benefit cause i got h2sports fix.


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## WallyGTI (Dec 29, 2007)

rick89 said:


> i hope this works if you guys do plan to do it. I guess if anything does happen i won't benefit cause i got h2sports fix.


Not to thread jack but how is that working out for you? I haven't seen anyone talk about em much since they came out.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

What good would it do? You think VW is unaware of the issue or doesn't know what the followers took like?

AFAIK dealers are supposed to send all parts replaced under warranty back to VW anyway. So I'm sure they'll just take your followers and throw them in that big pile.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

I'm keeping mine along with the receipt for the replacement. Eventually they will get sued and will have to reimburse the cost.

I think a more effective approach would be to collect all the photos of damaged followers, along with the mileage on them, and then post the collection all over the web and send it to news outlets and auto magazines. Then write a letter to VW which includes the pictures and a list of places this was sent.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

avgwarhawk said:


> My camshaft, follower and HPFP are at the dealer. No need to send them in for me....VW knows the deal....they just don't like talking about this dirty little secret. All I see coming is a suppliment in the owners manual as a new maintenance item that we as owners will have to pay out of pocket. Thanks VW! :screwy:


I agree with this view.

It's not a design flaw as it is a maitenance item / check that should be added.

I still don't understand why VW does not send a supplement to maitenance/warranty out on this.


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

XM_Rocks said:


> I agree with this view.
> 
> It's not a design flaw as it is a maitenance item / check that should be added.
> 
> I still don't understand why VW does not send a supplement to maitenance/warranty out on this.


I think because it would be admitting a serious defect and would probably cause a mad rush of cars with high miles to the dealer wanting the follower check for free. I think the follower is not a maintence item and should not be considered a maintence item. To me it is would be considered a built in money maker for VW. That is not a good way to retain customers and get new ones onboard.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

avgwarhawk said:


> I think because it would be admitting a serious defect and would probably cause a mad rush of cars with high miles to the dealer wanting the follower check for free. I think the follower is not a maintence item and should not be considered a maintence item. To me it is would be considered a built in money maker for VW. That is not a good way to retain customers and get new ones onboard.


lol... $40 cam followers is not a built in money maker. :laugh:

Thats why you add it as a maitenance item... then the dealer will charge for the check.

So by your reasoning should timing belt replacement not be considered as maitenance? That would be a major money maker @ $200 in parts every 80k miles.


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## MisterJJ (Jul 28, 2005)

XM_Rocks said:


> lol... $40 cam followers is not a built in money maker. :laugh:


No, but a $3,000 cam, fuel pump, and follower replacement is a money maker. If they added the check to the maintenance, they just sell more followers. By not adding it, they get a whole bunch of $3,000 services out of it. I can think of no other good reasons for not adding it as a maintenance item.

This behaviour along with the way they have treated the engine sludge issue of the 1.8t makes me want to never buy a VAG product again despite how much I like driving them.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

MisterJJ said:


> No, but a $3,000 cam, fuel pump, and follower replacement is a money maker. If they added the check to the maintenance, they just sell more followers. By not adding it, they get a whole bunch of $3,000 services out of it. I can think of no other good reasons for not adding it as a maintenance item.
> 
> This behaviour along with the way they have treated the engine sludge issue of the 1.8t makes me want to never buy a VAG product again despite how much I like driving them.


VWoA does not see the $3,000.

Most of that is labor at the dealer... the parts are low.

Plus for every one that they stick a customer with they probably goodwill or pay for 3.


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

XM_Rocks said:


> lol... $40 cam followers is not a built in money maker. :laugh:
> 
> Thats why you add it as a maitenance item... then the dealer will charge for the check.
> 
> So by your reasoning should timing belt replacement not be considered as maitenance? That would be a major money maker @ $200 in parts every 80k miles.


No sir...this is not a maintenance item by any means. Timing belts have been used in vehicle for over 20 years. These are well known maintenance items. Replacing valve train components is not. So really, total nonsense to think this follower is anything but a poorly designed piece of rubbish. If it was so great and should be a regular maintenance item noted in the owners manual then why did VW upgrade not only the replacement parts but put these parts in the newer motors? It is a design flaw and VW is doing their best not to acknowlege it. I liken this follower issue to the flooding of Jettas when it rain thus destroying the ECU under the seat. Customers paying to have a carpet replaced because of mold growing. ECU replaced at their expense. Was this serious problem a maintenance item also the the customer had to put a hefty bag on the car whenever it rained? The courts did not think so and VW lost the case.


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

XM_Rocks said:


> VWoA does not see the $3,000.
> 
> Most of that is labor at the dealer... the parts are low.
> 
> Plus for every one that they stick a customer with they probably goodwill or pay for 3.


So tell me, 4 people are in line to get the crap follower replaced and probably the camshaft as well. You are number 4 in that line. Customers 1 through 3 just got the work done for free. You roll up to to the cashier window and the invoice for repair is handed to you. How is your "goodwill" feeling now? So, it is ok for VW to stick it to 1 because they 'goodwill' 3? What kind of logic is that? You know what my good will was? It was paying an extra $2000.00 for a CPO warranty. That was all 2000 goodwills I paid. It is utter nonsense to think VW is looking out for you. VW took the chance of an extended warranty. The amount of work in the past 12 months on my 06 with 51k miles completely blew out that $2000.00 I paid for this warranty. In short, VW lost the bet.


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

MisterJJ said:


> No, but a $3,000 cam, fuel pump, and follower replacement is a money maker. If they added the check to the maintenance, they just sell more followers. By not adding it, they get a whole bunch of $3,000 services out of it. I can think of no other good reasons for not adding it as a maintenance item.
> 
> This behaviour along with the way they have treated the engine sludge issue of the 1.8t makes me want to never buy a VAG product again despite how much I like driving them.


Exactly! The old sludge issue. Another well known issue VW attempted to skirt around. Also the recently lost case with flooded Jettas. This cam follower is a problem child for VW. The steering module on the column is also a problem child. 

I have had my car for 12 months. It has been in the shop more than all of my cars COMBINED in the past 25 years. We are a two car family!!!! Guess what? I dropped my car off at the shop today!!!!! :what: I sure hope I'm not that 4th person behind the 3 that got the 'goodwill' fix. :screwy:


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

avgwarhawk said:


> So tell me, 4 people are in line to get the crap follower replaced and probably the camshaft as well. You are number 4 in that line. Customers 1 through 3 just got the work done for free. You roll up to to the cashier window and the invoice for repair is handed to you. How is your "goodwill" feeling now? So, it is ok for VW to stick it to 1 because they 'goodwill' 3? What kind of logic is that? You know what my good will was? It was paying an extra $2000.00 for a CPO warranty. That was all 2000 goodwills I paid. It is utter nonsense to think VW is looking out for you. VW took the chance of an extended warranty. The amount of work in the past 12 months on my 06 with 51k miles completely blew out that $2000.00 I paid for this warranty. In short, VW lost the bet.


The statement was made before that this is a profit center for VW... thats what I was responding to. 

I mysef was a victim of the A/C compressor failure a few thousand miles outside of warranty... thats another thing that VW failed on. VW goodwilled half of it but its a shame I had to pay $700 to fix an A/C System failure due to a bad batch of compressors on a three year old car.

I have been on record for years now as stating VW should add the cam follower as a supplement to the maitenance log.

It seems like a 40k mile check on the cam follower is reasonable and would cover most all of the failures.

However I personally dont see this as a "design flaw". 

I see it as a durable check item like a timing belt that can be managed.

The only concern I see is for folks like my mom... she has a 2006 Passat. If it wasn't for me she wouldn't know what a cam follower is. To compound the situation she keeps her cars for 10-15 years. I actually regret suggesting her to drive a Passat after she was already fixated on a Camry.

My cam follower pulled at 52k miles looked like it had another 30k-40k easy.


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

> I mysef was a victim of the A/C compressor failure a few thousand miles outside of warranty... thats another thing that VW failed on. VW goodwilled half of it but its a shame I had to pay $700 to fix an A/C System failure due to a bad batch of compressors on a three year old car.


That is the first problem. VW has made their 'bad batch' problem your problem. That should not be the case. When you share the corporate profits then you can begin sharing the corporate 'bad batch' problems. 



> I have been on record for years now as stating VW should add the cam follower as a supplement to the maitenance log.


Again, VW is making their 'bad batch' problem your problem. That is not how anyone conducts business or want to conduct business. Should we add checking the oil bolt in the 3.6 V6 as a maintenance item as well as long as we are at it? This is also a bad batch problem that VW finally admitted too because the bad batch apparently was finite. There is no end to this follower issue or A/C issue. It is a problem on thousands of VW's. 



> It seems like a 40k mile check on the cam follower is reasonable and would cover most all of the failures.


At VW expense. Not mine. These followers are an issue across the board. Checking the oil pump bolt at the owners expense on the V6 should be added as well correct? I call foul on that as well. 




> However I personally dont see this as a "design flaw".


You should. Just about every PBY engine has suffered from this problem. 



> I see it as a durable check item like a timing belt that can be managed.


Durablity check. Ok, lets pull the crank, rods, pistons, rings for a durability check. No sir. Too many failing miserably. It is a design flaw. 



> The only concern I see is for folks like my mom... she has a 2006 Passat. If it wasn't for me she wouldn't know what a cam follower is. To compound the situation she keeps her cars for 10-15 years. I actually regret suggesting her to drive a Passat after she was already fixated on a Camry.


Therein lies the problem...there are thousands just like your mom who trust VW to make a quality car. Who do not visit the internet on the cars they own. These are the folks that get bent over. These are the folks that VW does their very best to decline repairs under warranty with using things such as..."Where is the oil change receipts?" "As a goodwill gesture we will go half way on the cost for our crappy known problem A/C unit." In good faith your mom purchased quality as VW likes to push. In reality she is stuck with a car that will require a laundry list of parts. So you feel bad about it because you know as well as I that the car is a basket case. Your mom will be on a first name basis with the dealership because the car is loaded with "bad batches" 

So, like I said, I dropped mine off last night. A button that was replaced two weeks ago for peeling does not work. The button does not match the other 3 in the car. So you see, other than the tech not checking it for operation, the part does not even match. Does VW care? Apparently not. We did it for free so take your lumps. Furthermore, VW with the peeling buttons said it was caused by the oils in your hands. Really, should we drive the car with white gloves on because the buttons which you touch with your fingers could potentially make the covering peel? :screwy: No sir, it is more garbage used to build the car. It is subpar parts from China. I purchased my car one year ago this month. The following repairs were done in under 11k miles I put on it. The car was purchased with 40k.

Camshaft
Follower
HPFP
Column Module
Radio bezel
Switches/buttons for peeling
Flange/antifreeze leaking
Trunk latch
Ignition coil (one fried as the car sat in my driveway):screwy: All replaced under campaign which is another way of saying recall. 

Keep in mind that the other recalls were handled by the previous poor sap who leased the vehicle. 

This is a hard pill to swallow in under 12 months. The 06 in itself is a 'bad batch' IMO. The only saving grace here is eventually mine will have all the known stupid problems replaced with the updated parts. I'm hoping all problems become present while I still have a CPO warranty. Lord knows I do not want to share in the expense of more bad batches. With any luck the car will be ok.

I'm not trying to bust your hump but I was like you. Very optimistic with the car. As the months went by and the problems started adding up I dropped it at the dealers. Three days later it emerged with a Christmas list of parts replaced. My optimism completely gone. I truly happy for those that have little problems with their cars and there are plenty out there! As for me, every known issue with the 06 is happening with my 06. The cars should not have been put back on the lot after lease returns. All they did was sell me their problem to me. I now know why at signing they kept pushing two things. A Lemon Law Clause and a CPO warranty. VW knows this car would be an issue. That was plainly obvious. I should have run but in good faith like your mom that VW builds quality I made the deal.


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## XM_Rocks (Jan 29, 2005)

avgwarhawk said:


> That is the first problem. VW has made their 'bad batch' problem your problem. That should not be the case. When you share the corporate profits then you can begin sharing the corporate 'bad batch' problems.


My car was out of warranty. Batch problems or not I didn't have a legal leg to stand on.

Its simple contract law.

What would you have suggested I do?

Stomp my feet like a child in the service bay for a few hours? Called VWoA and complained? All while my car sat in a service bay for weeks?

Hire an attorney @ $250 an hour and start racking up large legal bills?

All over $700? I took the car to the dealer and my dealer did all of the legwork with VW for the goodwill.

Frankly my time is worth something and $700 isn't worth my time.



avgwarhawk said:


> Therein lies the problem...there are thousands just like your mom who trust VW to make a quality car. Who do not visit the internet on the cars they own. These are the folks that get bent over. These are the folks that VW does their very best to decline repairs under warranty with using things such as..."Where is the oil change receipts?" "As a goodwill gesture we will go half way on the cost for our crappy known problem A/C unit." In good faith your mom purchased quality as VW likes to push. In reality she is stuck with a car that will require a laundry list of parts. So you feel bad about it because you know as well as I that the car is a basket case. Your mom will be on a first name basis with the dealership because the car is loaded with "bad batches"
> 
> I'm not trying to bust your hump but I was like you. Very optimistic with the car. As the months went by and the problems started adding up I dropped it at the dealers. Three days later it emerged with a Christmas list of parts replaced. My optimism completely gone. I truly happy for those that have little problems with their cars and there are plenty out there! As for me, every known issue with the 06 is happening with my 06. The cars should not have been put back on the lot after lease returns. All they did was sell me their problem to me. I now know why at signing they kept pushing two things. A Lemon Law Clause and a CPO warranty. VW knows this car would be an issue. That was plainly obvious. I should have run but in good faith like your mom that VW builds quality I made the deal.


Please read above... I was out of warranty... my car had 64,000 miles. :thumbup:

There were no cam follower issues in 2/2006 or before.

Thats when she bought her B6 Passat.

All of the 1.8T's I have had prior had the same types of issues (coil packs, overestimated timing belt replacements etc etc). VW's shoddy history was not lost on me.

However the more you dig the more you realize that most cars have sets of issues.

Just a few off the top of my head are MAJOR ringland issues, E36/E46 subframe failure, Vanos Issues, need for valve adjustments on S2000's. None of these were know when the cars went on sale... only after years of being on the road. 

In all of the VW's I have owned I have never been stranded once. I cant think of anything for $25k that could give me such a well rounded package.

I just know there may be a few niggles and quirks... that part of the equation I accepted.

I told my mom to spend $200 to have the cam follower switched out every few years. She is warrantied (aftermarket) for another 4 or so years. :thumbup:

I myself mod my car so I love when my car is out of warranty. No more dealing with the dealer and VWoA. :thumbup:


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

There are cars with set problems then there is the 06 Passat with a set of problems that go above and beyond what anyone would consider as normal. I have been driving for 29 years. I had plenty of cars in my time (x2 when I got married) and have not experience anything remotely close to the problems with this Passat I own. As far as the coils frying....it has been years with this issue before VW addressed the issue. They much prefered to have you sit on the side of the road with smoking coils instead of getting coils that lasted the long haul. When I purchased my car not within 50 minutes of signing the car was in my driveway smoking away as a coil shorted itself to death. :screwy: 29 years...never seen a coil do this on any car....I worked as a tech for Goodyear 9 years to boot. So after my newly aquired paperweight sat in my driveway for 2 days awaiting the tow I investigated this pile of rubble. Not a pretty picture. So, the coil and wire harness was replaced. I asked about the other three. VW said nope, not until it burns to a crisp. :what: So, I said see ya when the recall comes out. Three months later there is was in my mailbox. Come on in for the free coils. What you got is subpar crap.  In short, the issues with the coils is completely VW idea of ignoring the problem and allowing the customer to suffer the woes. The problem is there are too many nigglies and having to accept them should not be in the equation. 

As for your A/C, a class action suit would include monies for lawyers fees. See the recently lost flooding issue for the Jettas. You just might get your $700.00 back. 

Anyway, even with all the crack head repairs I do like the car and with any luck all the known issues will be attended to free of charge under my CPO warranty. It is a shame I have the beta version fo the Passat. Nothing like being the test bed for the 06 Passat new model year. Glad I could do it for everyone so their rides work well. Maybe I will get a new free version of the Passat just like Microsoft does for beta testers :laugh:

So, I will pay off this car and truth be told...buy a CC. I just like them a whole lot better.  Let the problems continue with the CC! :laugh:


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## surfo (Jan 6, 2006)

I have changed a total of 7 cam followers from friends in the past 2 months!! last was an old guys passat, and when I inspected it, it was completelly broken!!! fkn miracle that nothing else got damaged on his car!...

I always inspect this part on the 2.0t engines no matter what... even if is only a intake to be installed, if car has more than 10000 miles on it, I check it.

I will save the next bunch of followers and send them to our local VW headquarters when you guys send yours and make it public on the media.


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## hayejay (Jun 16, 2008)

A2L90E said:


> I had my cam follower changed a few weeks back. Fortunately it was in decent shape. In reading all of the horror stories about the cam followers, has anyone ever mailed their old cam follower to VW with a letter explaining your overall disappointment with the design flaw?
> 
> I would be interested in hearing if anyone has done this and received a response from VW.
> 
> I hope to shortly draft a letter and include the letter, cam follower, and as many posts with pictures that I can find on Vortex of bad cam followers.


 I'm down for that idea too.. Why should we be spending the money for followers.. I've not have any horror with this and having stage 2 but still paying out of pocket for the followers.


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## avgwarhawk (Aug 10, 2009)

hayejay said:


> I'm down for that idea too.. Why should we be spending the money for followers.. I've not have any horror with this and having stage 2 but still paying out of pocket for the followers.


 So there is more than me who thinks adding this follower check to the regular maintenance at our expense is pure nonsense. :thumbup:


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

What likely needs to happen is a class action against VW. 

About 2 years after I bought my Audi S4 brand new back in 2000 I got a notice that a class action was being settled against Audi for selling the car with summer performance tires! Some knucklehead apparently had a winter incident with the summer tires (which were useless below 32), if they can be sued for that, this would seem like a no brainer. 

I like the idea of making a big pile of failed cam followers, camshafts etc, and putting it on the sidewalk in front of VWoA's headquarters, calling some press over, and offering the parts back to VW. 

http://www.lawyersandsettlements.com/faq.html


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

yeah, getting the media involved, then announcing a class action would work wonders, but who is willing to get it started?


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

Krieger said:


> yeah, getting the media involved, then announcing a class action would work wonders, but who is willing to get it started?


 Probably by someone(s) who had it all fail (cam, cam follower and pump) and had to pay out of pocket to get it fixed.


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## 2slojetta0L (Dec 15, 2001)

Did you guys see the facebook page dedicated to 2.0FSi cam followers. It's a shame that nothing is being done by vw to resolve these issues-I guess bringing out the TSI is their idea of fixing the issue-and **** the rest of us- maybe someone has some pull that can get this public and make vw responsible-anyway here is the page- 
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=235507629582&ref=ts


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## hayejay (Jun 16, 2008)

avgwarhawk said:


> So there is more than me who thinks adding this follower check to the regular maintenance at our expense is pure nonsense. :thumbup:


Well yes it is nonsense. Plus I didn't know anything about it til VW service told me or maybe it was on here.. I think.. anyway Paying for this is CF and taking the time is a pain... not the end of the world but a pain.

What I think would be great if VW help us pay for a convert kit for the hpfp and cam or something. Cause we do use these cars everyday too so. 

opcorn:


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## hayejay (Jun 16, 2008)

Krieger said:


> yeah, getting the media involved, then announcing a class action would work wonders, but who is willing to get it started?


Well you know I'm sure VW staff also reads these forms. So if they see us accually coming together. Maybe they will act. But if not Anyone know a place where we can send our repair bills so we can combined them together. We don't need lawyers Email is an amazing tool lol


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

It's a design flaw. They went back to an outdated (and not that reliable due to oil restrictions on additives) design for the HPFP cam follower. SOme of the older FSI engines used a roller follower for the HPFP.

VW used a tappet follower on the Pumpe Duse TDI engines also, and people had the same issue with the camshaft prematurely wearing, despite the "correct" oil used.

In the end... it accomplishes nothing. They are not going to pay for a true solution.

Maybe if I ever do the Stage 2+, I'd invest into the H2Sport solution.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

asked my cousin who works at a law firm up in GA. she is going to look into it and see if anyone has ever tried anything, and what we need to do to get things moving.


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## forma (Nov 22, 2005)

any update kreiger with your cousin?


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

oh, ****, i totally forgot. she mentioned that there were no cases against VWoA that she could find in a bit of looking, but she says that we can prove that its a huge flaw that could put you in harm due to loss of power, engine failing, stranding you, etc, or cost you tons of money if it fails often enough, you have a nice case.

she said people did the same thing to Honda with their transmission issues, toyota with their Rav4 and other manufacturers and they tend to do recalls without ever going to court because they dont want to look like *******s. lmao umpkin:

we just need some media attention really. the rest will be easy, imho.


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## TSMMK4 (Dec 15, 2008)

^^^ was gonna say, I used to be a tech at Dover Vw, might be going back soon but anyway, since most of the crowd that owns GTIs GLIs and 2.0Ts are younger crowds, the issue hasn't been confronted with Vw in the right way. More or less it was covered by warranty if within mileage, we goodwilled it once or I told kids that were out of mileage what the repair was, and most of the them chuckled when they saw the price and rolled out lol. The passat owners now are getting the steering column issue taken care of under warranty, no questions asked, mileage etc etc doesn't matter. And I can remember doing atleast 4 customer pay columns. I now own a 06 GTI, and been waiting for the day that **** goes out, cuz I'll have some words for VW about this mess:laugh::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## DaWolfsburg (Sep 12, 2002)

May be old news, but BMW is facing a class action suit regarding it's HPFPs in their turbo cars. 

http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmw-facing-second-lawsuit-over-turbocharged-engine.html


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## Gtiupb2002 (Jun 4, 2007)

So what exactly do we need to do to get this ball rolling. My hpfp failed about 4-5 months ago but I am still under a cpo warranty that paid for all new parts, but I would like to keep my car past the warranty, but honestly dont want the headace of the follower failing again. 

We should pile enough info on this issue and send it to a bunch of different news stations and see if anyone will run a story on it to gain attention of VWoA.

The only thing I have is the receipt for what it would have cost me if I did not have a warranty.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

just get a group of friends or other enthusiasts who have had the failure, receipts and/or documents of the cost and time it took, etc, and contact local stations or major stations and newspapers or websites or anything and see if they would be willing to do a story on it.

tell them its a trash design that is being covered up and its costing people untold amounts of money and time. im sure you will get some attention, especially after all the recalls under toyota and BWM among others.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

Nobody gets rich off of class action lawsuits except lawyers. And VW is not gonna pay people for changing 10 cam followers in 30k miles cuz the "magic" coating wore off. The cam follower design is perfectly fine. There was a run of bad camshafts that VW did a TSB on. Unfortunately a TSB is not a recall so it doesn't help you out of warranty AFAIK.

The way I see it there are only 2 issues that a class action lawsuit would need to address......

1: Recall the VIN range of cars known to be in the "A" cam era and far enough beyond to catch any cars that may have slipped through. Check condition of cam, follower, and HPFP in relation to mileage. Extend warranties to them for those parts (which rumor has it is already in the works). 

2: Make a clear service interval for cam follower change and cam lobe inspection. 40k miles is well within reason.

oh and 3: Ignore all of the cam follower junkies who change followers every oil change or two, because either A) your issue is covered under #1 or B) your a paranoid schizophrenic that needs hangs on this forum too much.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

The issue is not limited to "A" cams. I had a "B" cam and it punched through without throwing a CEL. If I hadn't been "paranoid schizophrenic" and checked my follower who knows how much more damage would have been done? Mine had obviously been punched through for a while, as the fuel pump plunger tip was worn down at an angle. The fact that all the pictures of punched out followers look almost exactly the same indicate that the design is not "perfectly fine" in my opinion. The fact that it does not necessarily throw a CEL even though it's eating itself turns it into a defect.


Edit: The purpose of participating in a class action suit as an affected party is not to "get rich", BTW. It's to get the relief you're entitled to which would otherwise not be available to you unless you paid gobs of money out of pocket to sue as an individual. Said another way, the goal is to "not go broke" because the corporation knows you can't outspend them by yourself.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

jmj said:


> The issue is not limited to "A" cams. I had a "B" cam and it punched through without throwing a CEL. If I hadn't been "paranoid schizophrenic" and checked my follower who knows how much more damage would have been done? Mine had obviously been punched through for a while, as the fuel pump plunger tip was worn down at an angle. The fact that all the pictures of punched out followers look almost exactly the same indicate that the design is not "perfectly fine" in my opinion. The fact that it does not necessarily throw a CEL even though it's eating itself turns it into a defect.


:thumbup: The revised cam and follower are not permanent fixes to a flawed design. Still need to monitor the cam & follower periodically, maybe at longer intervals.

Of course, the people with upgraded HPFP, well, they'll get the short end of the stick on this.

VW has issues with the Common Rail TDI HPFP. Guess what??? it is a cam & tappet-style follower, in this case, the diesel fuel provides the lubricity and the first thing VW dealership will do is blame the owner for accidentally putting gas into their cars (the usual, looking for an excuse), and for the TDI owners, it's a $10,000 repair


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

I have no problem with monitoring the cam follower, but I think VW ought at least to have notified owners that they should do it, or take it to a dealer to do it.


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## DaWolfsburg (Sep 12, 2002)

VW via Fight Club said:


> Seems like Cam Followers are failing in the 2.0T FSI motors. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.



IMO any modern drive train should be able to cover 100k with nothing more than regular oil changes. 
(You would be advised to replace timing belt before then- hence it is being phased out in favor of chains)


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

jmj said:


> The issue is not limited to "A" cams. I had a "B" cam and it punched through without throwing a CEL. If I hadn't been "paranoid schizophrenic" and checked my follower who knows how much more damage would have been done? Mine had obviously been punched through for a while, as the fuel pump plunger tip was worn down at an angle. The fact that all the pictures of punched out followers look almost exactly the same indicate that the design is not "perfectly fine" in my opinion. The fact that it does not necessarily throw a CEL even though it's eating itself turns it into a defect.


I never said followers wearing out was limited to "A" cams. Followers wearing out under 40k miles for the most part is. At what mileage did your follower fail? Of course all the followers that have been "punched out" look exactly the same, they all have a hole in them. And I don't see how you think your follower had been holed for a long time, if that was the case, your HPFP wouldn't have had a tip at all. Especially if you are a "paranoid schizophrenic" it wouldn't have been long between checks of a perfectly good cam follower and one with a hole.

I've got an A cam and I checked once at 25k and replaced at 45k only because I had one in my hand so you'll have to pardon my schepticism of the whole ordeal. Especially since I've used nothing but Castrol syntec or Mobil 1, not some fancy $10/qt oil that these goofballs would like you to believe is "required". Going by the posts I've looked at over the years I still feel that checking for "bad" A cams (#1 of my last post) and having a regular replacement interval of 40k miles for followers in either cam is the most realistic way to go. VW isn't gonna engineer a retrofit of any kind of roller follower or anything like that for an engine that's been mostly phased out of production. The funny thing is that when a company finally did come up with a roller follower, nobody bought it.



jmj said:


> Edit: The purpose of participating in a class action suit as an affected party is not to "get rich", BTW. It's to get the relief you're entitled to which would otherwise not be available to you unless you paid gobs of money out of pocket to sue as an individual. Said another way, the goal is to "not go broke" because the corporation knows you can't outspend them by yourself.


Any "paranoid schizophrenic" looking to get paid for the price of changing 10 followers and/or labor is looking to get rich. Like I said, if that was even necessary your problem was already covered in TSBs and should have been handled under warranty. Anybody who needed a cam replacement done out of pocket should be reimbursed as VW never set an interval on a part that's clearly a wearable item, but there's been so many ridiculous practices on here regarding these followers it's really not funny anymore. 



DaWolfsburg said:


> IMO any modern drive train should be able to cover 100k with nothing more than regular oil changes.
> (You would be advised to replace timing belt before then- hence it is being phased out in favor of chains)


 Well that's just wishful thinking. With every "modern drivetrain" there is a piece of technology in it's infancy. Once that technology has become tried and true, it's no longer "modern"

Regardless of popular opinion a timing chain is *not * an upgrade. Chains are less efficient and have a more complicated guide/tensioning system. Chains should really only be used on larger engines that have more load from the valve train and intermediate components than a belt can handle reliably. Chains themselves do last longer but that benefit is completely wasted by the fact that accessory belts and water pumps have a lifespan similar to the timing belt.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

> blackvento36 said:
> 
> 
> > I never said followers wearing out was limited to "A" cams. Followers wearing out under 40k miles for the most part is. At what mileage did your follower fail? Of course all the followers that have been "punched out" look exactly the same, they all have a hole in them. And I don't see how you think your follower had been holed for a long time, if that was the case, your HPFP wouldn't have had a tip at all. Especially if you are a "paranoid schizophrenic" it wouldn't have been long between checks of a perfectly good cam follower and one with a hole.
> ...


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

DaWolfsburg said:


> IMO any modern drive train should be able to cover 100k with nothing more than regular oil changes.
> (You would be advised to replace timing belt before then- hence it is being phased out in favor of chains)


apparently our advanced direct injection motor is not modern then


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

[


jmj said:


> > I'm not sure if you're being obtuse or if you're just simple, so I'll guess it's obtuse. The holes are all uneven and show the same wear pattern indicating a common problem. I don't know how long my follower was punched through because, as I indicated, my CEL never went off. I was at about 80k miles when I checked it out of curiosity when people began posting pictures of their holed followers with no warning indicators. Almost the exact opposite of "paranoid", IMHO.
> 
> 
> I don't know what you're missing or why you're missing it, but you don't seem to be understanding any of what I post. I don't know if you bought your car used or what, but if you waited till 80k to check the follower you're right, you are "Almost the exact opposite of paranoid". The words lazy or oblivious come to mind.
> ...


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

> I don't know if you bought your car used or what, but if you waited till 80k to check the follower you're right, you are "Almost the exact opposite of paranoid". The words lazy or oblivious come to mind.


If I had no idea there was a reason to check until I read about everyone else's followers punching through because VW never said anything and I never got a MIL, how am I being "lazy or oblivious" exactly? 



> Your follower did not fail before the first time I suggested it should have been changed. You don't drive around on the tip of your HPFP for 40k miles. So unless you have seen a B cam that had a busted follower under 40k miles, you really aren't arguing my point.


You have absolutely no way to know when my follower punched through, and neither do I, except that it was somewhere between 0 (or however many miles my car had on it when I picked it up from the dealer) and 8X,XXX miles (when I pulled the follower). I *have* seen pictures of fuel pumps that were operating without an MIL and the entire tip of the plunger was worn off, so that the end of the shaft itself was riding against the cam, through the punched out follower. I can't say with any authority how many miles had elapsed since that happened, though.


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## blackvento36 (Mar 17, 2003)

jmj said:


> If I had no idea there was a reason to check until I read about everyone else's followers punching through because VW never said anything and I never got a MIL, how am I being "lazy or oblivious" exactly?
> .


 If that's the case, by definition of the word, you were oblivious. Consult a dictionary. As I said, that's not your fault because you weren't informed




jmj said:


> You have absolutely no way to know when my follower punched through, and neither do I, except that it was somewhere between 0 (or however many miles my car had on it when I picked it up from the dealer) and 8X,XXX miles (when I pulled the follower).


 If that's the case you have no argument to pursue. The only thing you do know is that a follower doesn't last 80k miles.




jmj said:


> I *have* seen pictures of fuel pumps that were operating without an MIL and the entire tip of the plunger was worn off, so that the end of the shaft itself was riding against the cam, through the punched out follower. I can't say with any authority how many miles had elapsed since that happened, though.


I've seen that as well, but since the people who have posted cases like that did not check their follower at all until they saw that nobody can say. The issue that the TSB covers with faulty A cams is a combination of the follower wearing out and the cam itself grinding down due to the softness of the HPFP lobes. The pump travel is reduced much quicker and the MIL pops up alot sooner.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

I have a B cam, and I need to change my follower every 10-12k miles. the DLC is worn off, the face looks pretty hammered, and there is always some scoring on the cam.

why is it that my audi cant last as long as a beat on and neglected geo metro, honda civic, or pretty much anything else, ESPECIALLY when you follow the manufacturer's recommended service intervals.

the cars cam had already failed btw, as it has a build date of 03/05, so it came with an A cam... and im just now about to hit 80,000 miles. :banghead:


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

> If that's the case, by definition of the word, you were oblivious. Consult a dictionary. As I said, that's not your fault because you weren't informed


Point well taken.



> If that's the case you have no argument to pursue. The only thing you do know is that a follower doesn't last 80k miles.


True enough. At least on some engines. I've seen other posters who check their followers at more than 80K for the first time and they had no problems. As I said above, I now usually check at every oil change, so as to avoid another costly repair.


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

> I have a B cam, and I need to change my follower every 10-12k miles. the DLC is worn off, the face looks pretty hammered, and there is always some scoring on the cam.


Ouch. I've been using Rotella T since my cam was changed, and at the last oil change, about 15K miles post-cam, the DLC was showing hardly any wear.


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## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

ive used it all, but im on rotella t6 right now and it seems to hold up much better.

I think my issue is with the cam being just too worn and its causing early wear on the follower... a huge flaw imho... and I will have to foot that bill before I ever even hit 100,000 miles, which is retarded, imho.

3-4k mile OCIs didnt do **** lmao. guess 80,000 is alot of miles for these engines.... :banghead:


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## jmj (Feb 6, 2001)

To be fair to VW my engine still runs pretty strong at 115K miles, even though I'm sure the intake valves are encased in oil crud. I have to tackle that job next.


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## gcrouse (Apr 12, 2006)

Hey guys. here's mine. I think it might be starting to show some wear...


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

gcrouse said:


> Hey guys. here's mine. I think it might be starting to show some wear...


Nah...there is still plenty left on the sides...


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## handsome rob is taken (Apr 7, 2009)

at 103k still have 95% of the coating still left on my original follower.... i have the early 2006 "a" cam as well... and yes oil changes with castrol synthetic at every 10k miles.


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## static-psi (Jan 19, 2009)

LOL i needed to reply to this on.. This photo was at work.. The customer used some really good oil :laugh:.. Regardless I see this alot on cars that use the right oil.. I have a handfull of cam followers around


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## GLI 808 (Dec 28, 2008)

I went to VW and they said there is no need to ever have to replace the cam followers. I looked at them and said then why have at least 5 of my friends replaced theirs just this year? I got no answer.


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