# Finally getting my Dynaudio sound, but not the oem stuff



## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

So since VW didnt allow me to upgrade my '13 CC R-line with the factory Dynaudio system I decided to upgrade it myself. This is just the start as it will take me a while and I will just update this thread.

I have a history in car audio, and pretty high standards. The factory base system is junk, but the car has potential with locations for a 3-way component system. I just got a 3-way set of Dynaudio speakers. Next on the purchase list is the Audison bit ten DSP processor to allow the use of the factory RNS-315, and a McIntosh 4 channel amp. The next phase will be to add a 12" sub in a fiberglass enclosure that I will build myself.

I will update this thread with pics as I make progress. The components include an 8" woofer, which I am going to try to fit into the 6.5" speaker location with adapters. if its not possible then I will order 6.5" mids to replace the 8s.

thoughts?


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

CCdave said:


> So since VW didnt allow me to upgrade my '13 CC R-line with the factory Dynaudio system I decided to upgrade it myself. This is just the start as it will take me a while and I will just update this thread.
> 
> I have a history in car audio, and pretty high standards. The factory base system is junk, but the car has potential with locations for a 3-way component system. I just got a 3-way set of Dynaudio speakers. Next on the purchase list is the Audison bit ten DSP processor to allow the use of the factory RNS-315, and a McIntosh 4 channel amp. The next phase will be to add a 12" sub in a fiberglass enclosure that I will build myself.
> 
> ...


I would personally go with the Bit Ten D so you have a nice controller for the master volume and subwoofer (this will ensure, when tuned, that you'll have an undistorted signal at all times by using the master volume on the DRC).

Why not go with a nice Voce amp? Go completely digital, it really makes a world of a difference. More expensive yes, but well worth it. We get people into full DA setups with our demo vehicle, it's really a noticeable difference.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Im not 100% sold on the Mc yet. can you send me details on your suggestions? Ive been out of the car audio loop for years now so I tend to lean toward what I know.

BTW do you run an optical cable to that amp? Thats what I used when I installed a Sony c-90 years ago and it was a pain to install without kinking it.

on the bit ten D, I dont see the advantage as I plan to use an o-scope to find the max volume on the head unit before distortion, and never go above that. I am beyond the age of when I would "bump" my system, i just want a high end daily driver stereo system.


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

Why not stick in a RNS510 Nav system and switch the Speaker wires to run High level via VCDS so you can go Straight RCA to Amp or DSP. You'll get a bitter signal from the HU to work with.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Gigitt said:


> Why not stick in a RNS510 Nav system and switch the Speaker wires to run High level via VCDS so you can go Straight RCA to Amp or DSP. You'll get a bitter signal from the HU to work with.


well i want a RNS-510 but I already have an RNS-315 and I dont want to spend the $1200 on the unit plus another $300-400 on the bluetooth module.

what is VCDS? Im not familiar with VW specific things nor am I familiar with newer processes.


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## Gigitt (May 26, 2004)

CCdave said:


> well i want a RNS-510 but I already have an RNS-315 and I dont want to spend the $1200 on the unit plus another $300-400 on the bluetooth module.
> 
> what is VCDS? Im not familiar with VW specific things nor am I familiar with newer processes.


fair nuf... Dont think RNS510 are $1200 - can find them less than AUD$1000 shipped to Australia from Poland and UK- so you could do better with prices. You are spending big $$ on a Bit Ten already - they are probably cheaper over there in USA - here they are AUS$1000

You could go a RCD510 similar unit but without the Navigation... heaps cheaper when you get them from people upgrading to RNS510 like $200

VCDS is Vag-Com Diagnostic Software... allow you to play with cars electronic modules for car diagnosis, clear codes and modifying setting to customise features or when upgrading components.
Vortex has a whole section devoted to it - http://forums.vwvortex.com/forumdisplay.php?510-VAG-COM-Diagnostic-Forum


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Ah i know what VAG COM is, but I didnt know that you could turn your stereo from speaker level out to RCA level out with that.

I have seen the bit ten for much cheaper than US$1000. When I was pricing out the RNS-510 I was looking into the most recent built version with the current software. I don't want to deal with outdated software like I am on my wife's car right now.

I actually need the nav as I drive a lot for my job and I sometimes find out my destination mid-drive. This is also the reason for my stereo upgrade, my car is my office.


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## NFrazier (Jul 22, 2006)

If you don't care for adjustment purposes than stick with the Ten. The other advantage is with the Ten D running optical into a Voce w/ the Bit IN you will get 8 discrete channels instead of the 5 that the Ten or Ten D normally support.

The Toslink cables that Audison offers are very flexible. Yes you still can't bend them in harsh degrees but they are just like an RCA.

The primary advantage of going with the Bit Ten and Voce amp (with Bit IN adapter) is not having any RCAs what-so-ever. You'll go high level in into the Bit Ten, then toslink from bit ten to voce amp. There's no inherent noise what-so-ever from the components as you're using a digital transfer of the audio signal from the processor which the Voce amp (via Bit IN) converts the digital back into analog. Using a Voce Quattro 4 channel or 5.1K (5 channel) if you plan on doing a sub stage are the amplifiers I'm referencing.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Check out what UPS delivered for me today:


























my mcintosh amp was FINALLY shipped today and should be here sometime next week.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

My McIntosh came today. Thats my other amp, a phoenix gold zpa0.5. Not sure if I'm going to use it.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

sorry for the delay, i work full time, this is my daily driver, and i have a new baby that i tend to in my spare time.

here are some progress updates:
factory stuff


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Whats amazing is that the bolt pattern of the 3" mids is a perfect match to the existing bolt holes in that location. I know that the OEM upgrade is Dynaudio, but these are NOT the OEM speakers, they are aftermarket. I did have to drill out the holes slightly as the factory bolts were slightly larger, but otherwise, perfect.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

wire run through the factory door cable plug. i drilled a hole through the bottom of the plug as that location was blank.


new speaker installed in the speaker adapter made from the original speaker:


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)




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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

other picture updates:


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)




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## BETOGLI (Jul 15, 2010)

Pretty awesome, nice and clean work man! Congrats!


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Some updates...

I chose the Dynaudio MW190 12" subwoofer. It might not work as the fiberglass enclosure that I am building is about 1.5 cuft (can be stretched to 1.75 cuft) and this sub requires an insane 2.0-2.5 cuft. I will try it out and if it doesnt work then out it comes and the search will continue.



Removed the PS trunk panel for sound deadening...



And then the Drivers side...



Prepped it for fiberglass...




Which brings us current. I hope to have this enclosure done by end of day Monday.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

So this is the first time this has happened to me. I cant get my fiberglass piece back into the trunk. Usually I am pretty good about making it in a shape that will give me easy access, but combining the large amount of obstacles in the way and the fact that I was making this box pretty large, I have backed myself into a corner. I kept trimming here and there with no luck. I could keep trimming and get it, but before I know it I will be down to a 1 cuft box.

So with that said, I put the fiberglass aside (i will revisit it if the dyn sub doesnt work out) and I am making my first IB setup. I know that I need to seal it all the way around the baffle, and I am also doing something to keep stuff in my trunk from slamming into my sub (and shorting it). This is the first part of it, but I plan to have this done today.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

OK so an update...Im still trying to decide what I want to do to protect my subwoofer from flying debris (strollers, tool bag, etc) but I should have some answers in a matter of hours on how this sub sounds in an IB setup. Im just waiting on the glue to dry before covering the panel for a finished look.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

So I got it up and going. I didn't expect that I would like the free air setup but it does exactly what I wanted. I am still doing the final tweaks on it cosmetically but I'll post up pics when it's done.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

So my trick of gutting the factory speakers and using that as an adapter was short lived. This is much more solid.





I sprayed it with a rubber coating to seal it and prevent water from damaging the MDF.


Added some sound damper to the door panel. Its already pretty solid but more solid cant hurt.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Oh, and as promised, some pictures of my partially completed free air setup:


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## NRGCC (Apr 9, 2013)

So.. how does the free air setup sound ??


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

To most people it would sound weak. People don't know that I have a subwoofer, but they think that my miss are huge because there is no gap between mid bass and sub bass. In the past I have always had my subs so overpowering that when there's a sub bass note you can't
Miss it. With this setup it's there but it doesn't standout past everything else. It blends
Nicely. 

I have brother in laws that gave me a good review. Neither are into car audio. One is a master percussionist and the other is a sound engineer. Both were looking for a
Missing frequency range which they couldn't find. They both mentioned that they expected it to be boomy with a subwoofer, and were pleasantly surprised it wasn't.

That all being said, most people would want more from a sub. When listening to rap or hip hop (I don't) it doesn't deliver the loud bass notes. It's very accurate at reproducing the tight punch of a kick drum, the quick notes of a bass or a bass guitar, and the lower portion of many natural instruments. It does not reproduce synthetic extended
Period bass frequencies.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Like all other things, i did a better job on the drivers side adapter. I might remake the passenger side one now after seeing how this one came out. I think I finally am comfortable with the dremel router kit. I know that an actual router would be ideal, but its not in the budget at the moment.

After this, no more pics until I am done with the Free Air baffle board:


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## Twonks (Apr 9, 2013)

As a follower of car audio (you can find me on TalkAudio in the UK), and waiting for a new CC to be delivered in 4 weeks, I have been following this thread for some time.

It is good to see your progress, especially the IB sub.

I have a set of Focal components and a 15" OZ Matrix Elite sub that I'm thinking of IB.

What do you think of the factory head unit with processor against something like a mid to high end aftermarket deck?

I like the functionality of the RNS315 and don't really want to spoil the looks of my new car, but if an aftermarket gives a vastly superior sound then I'll go that way.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Twonks said:


> As a follower of car audio (you can find me on TalkAudio in the UK), and waiting for a new CC to be delivered in 4 weeks, I have been following this thread for some time.
> 
> It is good to see your progress, especially the IB sub.
> 
> ...


I am glad that my thread could be of some assistance. There doesnt seem to be too many other car audio build threads for CCs.

Honestly, I like the RNS-315. Yes it has a small screen. Yes it lacks HD radio (not sure thats available in the UK), and the satellite radio blocks some higher frequencies, but it has decent controls. the nav is great, the looks match the interior, and I dont believe it does much/any internal processing. The audio control LC6i does not have any sound processing and I can say that I do not hear much lacking from the end result. 

All of that being said, I have become a huge fan or OEM source units lately. I cant stand how aftermarket units look in the dash. Also, the integration of steering wheel controls, A/C info, and other features into the OEM unit make aftermarket units less attractive. I do like the looks of the kenwood unit thats meant for VW, but I dont like that the bluetooth requires a new mic and doesnt utilize the OEM mic.

sorry if that answer was kind of long winded. The last aftermarket head unit that I had was a high end one (Alpine CDA-7995) that I loved, but it didnt integrate well into the car that it was in.

what are the specs on the Focals?


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## Twonks (Apr 9, 2013)

CCdave said:


> I am glad that my thread could be of some assistance. There doesnt seem to be too many other car audio build threads for CCs.
> 
> Honestly, I like the RNS-315. Yes it has a small screen. Yes it lacks HD radio (not sure thats available in the UK), and the satellite radio blocks some higher frequencies, but it has decent controls. the nav is great, the looks match the interior, and I dont believe it does much/any internal processing. The audio control LC6i does not have any sound processing and I can say that I do not hear much lacking from the end result.
> 
> ...


Focals are 6 1/2" K2 Power components from a few years ago.

I drove them and my sub (JL 15W6v1) with PG Ti amps in my current car, but have recently put it back to standard and sold the amps.

Sorry, I was getting confused as I saw Bit10 in your previous posts and presumed it was being used. Forgot to notice the LC6i comments :lol:

I totally understand your thought process on aftermarket decks against factory. I've had a multitude of decks from basic to high end Pioneer P99RS and P90 + DEQ, and every one feels at odds with the rest of the car. Previously it didn't matter so much, but as factory head units become more integrated and part of the dash - I am feeling the same way you do.

The UK 315 has DAB radio, which is as near to HD Radio as we get I believe (and one of the reasons I like it).

I might just have a play with mine when the time comes


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

those Focals should sound pretty good. they will for sure sound better than the base audio in the CC.

So the IB setup with a single 12 just didnt work for me. I tried it to have an open mind, but in the end it wasnt enough bass for me.

Here are some pictures of the enclosure, and then some with the sub mounted. I need to do some finishing work on the enclosure, and then of course test it to see how it sounds. this will all be hidden behind the factory trunk panel for a stealth appearance.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

I finally finished my box. I installed a terminal cup, sealed the box up with "milkshake"' and carpeted the box to avoid rattling.


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## dogger (Jul 29, 2005)

I hope you don't mind my advice but seeing that you have some nice equipment and you are making a concerted effort to do a good install it might be helpful.

You would be much better off going with a sealed box mounted like your free air design going through the armrest. That is by far the ideal set up for this car. If you do it properly all of the energy from your subwoofer will go into the passenger compartment and it will not utilize the trunk air space at all. 

Your latest set up is common but far from ideal. You basically have made a bandpass enclosure with a tuning frequency that will vary depending on how much air space volume there is in the trunk. If you put items in the trunk taking up volume the frequency will change. It is also a lot less efficient since a lot of the energy from the subwoofer is trapped in the trunk and resonating all of the metal. There is also a vent in the trunk to the outside of the car where air escapes. 

If you are trying to keep it looking stealth you can easily make a sealed box that's barely noticeable by using a flat mount subwoofer. This will enable you to make a box that is the width of the trunk but very shallow. The trunk on the CC is ideal for this since its deep. 

Nice choice with the Dynaudio and love the McIntosh. :thumbup:


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

dogger said:


> I hope you don't mind my advice but seeing that you have some nice equipment and you are making a concerted effort to do a good install it might be helpful.
> 
> You would be much better off going with a sealed box mounted like your free air design going through the armrest. That is by far the ideal set up for this car. If you do it properly all of the energy from your subwoofer will go into the passenger compartment and it will not utilize the trunk air space at all.
> 
> ...


thanks for the advise. I might try that out as I am not too happy with the output right now. Ive done this kind of enclosure before, but never in such a large trunk. To test this theory i might move the box to sit by the pass through and see what it sounds like.

Funny thing is, ive done MANY sub installs with a regular box facing back and it sounds better than facing it forward. this is different maybe because its facing sideways. The resonating shouldnt be an issue as I have used sound damper all over the trunk. Also, the seats dont seem to seal off the trunk the way some cars do (like the Pontiac GTO with a gas tank separating the trunk from the back seat).

The good news is that my dyn mids go so low that i ALMOST dont need a sub.

I think for today I will try driving around with the back seats down and see what that does. if that doesnt work I will move the box to the pass through and listen for a while. Im curious what kind of difference it will make.


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## dogger (Jul 29, 2005)

To do it correctly you need to fire the subwoofer through the armrest hole and make sure the front of the speaker box is completely sealed from the trunk. The best way to do this is to make a frame that goes all the way around the speaker that fits tight to the front face of the box and then fits exact to the back seat. This makes all of the energy from the woofer go into the car and none into the trunk.You need that frame to be sealed tight so it doesn't leak into the trunk. Its also good to seal as many holes in the rear deck sheet metal and rear seat with butyl deadening like Hushmat or Dynamat. The better you can seal the trunk from the passenger compartment the better your sub will sound. 

A good test is to sit in the car with the trunk closed while playing your subwoofer at a good volume with all of the doors, windows, and trunk closed. Pop the trunk and see if the bass changes. If you have sealed it properly the bass won't change at all. If its not sealed typically the bass will increase. 

If you test it by just placing your existing enclosure through the armrest hole and its not going to be a accurate test. If its not sealed from the trunk it will still be using the trunk as part of the enclosure. 

Those Dynaudio woofers are really nice. I've had a set for over 20 years that are still going. If you don't abuse them they will last forever.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

I am already doing my first major overhaul of this install.

I just bought a JBL MS-8 DSP. I will go active with the McIntosh amp, and run my sub ( second one may be coming) off the Phoenix Gold amp.

What is a DSP? It's a modern interpretation of an equalizer. Most can take in either speaker level or RCA level, making it capable of being a line out converter or just a processor for an aftermarket deck. They come with a cd that includes test tones, pink noise and white noise. The one I got is 8 channels of output, set up how the user chooses. This is where "active" comes in. So my DSP will take in the full signal, and put out whatever I want to the 8 channels. So I am doing this ( channel 1, 2 are front tweeters, 3,4 are front mids, 5,6 are front woofers, 7 is subwoofer, 8 might be front center channel). So with the DSP you can choose which frequency band goes to which channel. It also has an equalizer to that after it corrects for any missing or muted input frequencies, the use can boost or reduce individual frequencies to their preference. It will also do time alignment, so I will play around with it.

So active versus passive...right now I am running passive. This means that I am running my front speakers off the passive crossover that came wi my speakers. I have very little control on how it distributes the power to each speaker and what frequencies go to them. With active, that means they you are running a powered crossover ( for me it's my DSP) and then running each individual speaker off its own amplifier channel.

This process will take me a good few months. I bought the JBL MS-8 already, but I need newer shorter RCAs with more channels, I need to run 3 sets of speaker wire to each door, run the speaker wire from the factory deck to the rear of the car (where the MS-8) is going, and then I am making a false floor to hide both amps in. My trunk wil still be completely stock looking. The MS-8 will hide behind the PS trunk side panel, and there is already an access panel in place, just like the one that shows the subwoofer on the other side.

Stay tuned for pictures of the process.


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## ravendarat (May 24, 2013)

CCdave said:


> I am already doing my first major overhaul of this install.
> 
> I just bought a JBL MS-8 DSP. I will go active with the McIntosh amp, and run my sub ( second one may be coming) off the Phoenix Gold amp.
> 
> ...


Ive been using a Audison BitOne to run active for about 3-4 years now. I have a 3way set of Focal K2P and I never regretted it for a second. In my new Golf I plan on taking my BitOne out of my Escalade and using it in my new system. Havent decided on the rest yet but I know I am DEFINITELY going active.


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## dogger (Jul 29, 2005)

Audison Bit One is a really good piece. I heard Audison has a two new amps that will have the processor built into them that are multi channel amps. Should make for a very clean and simple install. Haven't used the JBL piece though. 

Going active on the Dynaudio 3 ways will sound really good. I did that on a Porsche 997 with 362's and Audison LX amps and a Bit One that sounded amazing. You will really be able to tune and utilize the capabilities of the processor. I use Bit Ones on a regular basis now for a client and kind of regret not going active on the components. Takes some of the fun out of it. You really going to enjoy tuning and trying different things. :thumbup:


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

dogger said:


> Audison Bit One is a really good piece. I heard Audison has a two new amps that will have the processor built into them that are multi channel amps. Should make for a very clean and simple install. Haven't used the JBL piece though.
> 
> Going active on the Dynaudio 3 ways will sound really good. I did that on a Porsche 997 with 362's and Audison LX amps and a Bit One that sounded amazing. You will really be able to tune and utilize the capabilities of the processor. I use Bit Ones on a regular basis now for a client and kind of regret not going active on the components. Takes some of the fun out of it. You really going to enjoy tuning and trying different things. :thumbup:


Thanks for the input. I am really excited to get this going. I have been gathering and building my wiring for this. So far I have the DSP and I assembled my 6 conductor speaker cables. I ordered the materials to make my RCA cable as well. This will be a slow install, but I get to enjoy the system somewhat in the mean time.


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## ravendarat (May 24, 2013)

CCdave said:


> Thanks for the input. I am really excited to get this going. I have been gathering and building my wiring for this. So far I have the DSP and I assembled my 6 conductor speaker cables. I ordered the materials to make my RCA cable as well. This will be a slow install, but I get to enjoy the system somewhat in the mean time.


I cant wait to hear your review on that JBL piece. I am always looking for alternatives for my customers that want to keep their factory headunits and pieces like the bitone and I believe that JBL piece are gonna open a lot of doors for these people


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

ravendarat said:


> I cant wait to hear your review on that JBL piece. I am always looking for alternatives for my customers that want to keep their factory headunits and pieces like the bitone and I believe that JBL piece are gonna open a lot of doors for these people


I will make sure to put up a full review. I was reading the instructions and it looks promising. It's a very popular unit on diyma which is why I went with it in the first place. The cleansweep didn't work out so well for me and I think my lc6i is blocking my lower frequencies.


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## dogger (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm certain you will be much happier with this processor. The Cleansweep is so outdated and lacks the features that processors like the JBL and Bit One have. I used installed a lot of Cleansweeps awhile back and the first time I used a Bit One it was such a dramatic difference. Its a big step forward and gives you so much stuff to play with.  The adjustments for the front components you will really enjoy since you are ditching the passive crossvers. I feel stupid for not doing that on the cars I'm building now.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

You'll be much happier in the longrun with those MDF mid-bass rings/adapters vs. the stock plastic in my opinion. Nice work.

Back when I was an active stereo-fiddler-a-rounder-guy, I tried multiple free-air configurations in my Mk1 Jetta. None ever sounded as good as when I bit the bullet and built a ~1.75cuft vented and ported enclosure for a single free-air 10". Hit nice and hard for my tastes and it went LOW (crossed it at 80Hz, 4" port, 7" deep IIRC)

Good luck with the stealth sub install, looking pretty good to me. If the volume you ended up with is ~1.5 you might be happier overall with a 10" or even ported 8" instead of a 12. Then again I have been out of the scene for 15 years so I don't even know what modern drivers are capable of these days.

Peace


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Waterfan said:


> You'll be much happier in the longrun with those MDF mid-bass rings/adapters vs. the stock plastic in my opinion. Nice work.
> 
> Back when I was an active stereo-fiddler-a-rounder-guy, I tried multiple free-air configurations in my Mk1 Jetta. None ever sounded as good as when I bit the bullet and built a ~1.75cuft vented and ported enclosure for a single free-air 10". Hit nice and hard for my tastes and it went LOW (crossed it at 80Hz, 4" port, 7" deep IIRC)
> 
> ...


Haha this subwoofer is from 15 years ago, it's by no means modern. All high end modern subwoofers news 1000+ watts...although I will have that now, they are also very deep.

I started my upgrade today, I have 5 days of use of my wife's car while she is out of town, so I took the liberty of taking my car apart in the garage.

Here is some progress of my false floor (well its a start), equipment, and wiring...


































1/0 ground









The 6 channel RCAs that I built from scratch, power, ground, distro block


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Just wanted to update this thread. I have finished installing all of the electronics and the wiring. I am now finishing the cosmetic stuff. I am also working on getting the tuning in order.

First, A recap, I have the 12" subwoofer hidden behind the Drivers side trunk panel:


And now the new...my JBL MS-8 DSP is hidden behind the passenger side trunk panel:


Got my inline fuse in. I built a metal bracket to hold it in place:


So here is the hidden part but i tried to keep it neat. The PPI amp that you see is standing in while I finish the restoration of the Phoenix Gold amp:






And a sneak peak on the final trim pieces. It is far from done, but I wont post any more until its 100% done.



Please give feedback. Is this build good, bad, amateur, lame...i know that a few people are watching this, let me know what you think so far.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

dogger said:


> I hope you don't mind my advice but seeing that you have some nice equipment and you are making a concerted effort to do a good install it might be helpful.
> 
> You would be much better off going with a sealed box mounted like your free air design going through the armrest. That is by far the ideal set up for this car. If you do it properly all of the energy from your subwoofer will go into the passenger compartment and it will not utilize the trunk air space at all.
> 
> ...


I am responding to this now because I don't want any bad info out there. I didn't argue at the time because anything is possible, but what was stated here defied my 20 years of car audio experience. Well, it sounds incredible with the sealed sub in the corner of the trunk. No band pass effect. I have solid frequency variation from about 25 Hz up to the crossover point at 70. It is plenty loud (I had to turn my amp gain way down because it was draining out my other speakers) and this is with my weaker amp.

So just an update for anyone doing a similar setup, I set my crossover points on the MS-8 to 70hz at 24dB/oct for the sub, 700hz at 24 dB/oct for my midbass, and 3500hz at 24dB/oct for my mid, so everything above 3500hz goes to the tweeter. It sounds AMAZING.

I played the Eagles, and I swear even the band would be impressed with the accuracy. I then played Michael Jackson, and even though his songs sound great on most systems, I could hear definition that is usually lost. I then came in with my two big system testing song, both from Smashing pumpkins. First I played thirty three, as about :23 in it starts a bass note that continues throughout the rest of the song, changing frequencies. It did very well, the definition between bass frequencies is clear but not obvious. On less of a system you either wouldn't hear the frequency change or you would only hear parts of the bass note.

The other test song is 1979. It has a nice kick drum that doesn't sound right if there isn't a good mid bass, or if the system isn't tuned right. A sub can play the notes but won't have the right kick, and a weak mid bass won't have the right effect. I was impressed with this song as well. It had all of the right sounds and it really gave me the feeling that Billy Corgan was sitting in the car with me.

I am not an audiophile, but I think that this system would rank up there with some of the better ones.


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## dogger (Jul 29, 2005)

The information that I posted is not bad info. Its basic principles of car audio. There are a lot of people who build subwoofer sets up like you did and they function just fine and sound good. But that doesn't mean they are the optimum or the ideal set up for this application. There are even people in car audio who don't understand how to build proper subwoofer enclosures and make these mistakes all the time. I've worked in car audio for 26 years and worked for Speakerworks back in the early 90's when they were building IASCA finals winning cars. I do know what I am talking about and I'm not here posting misinformation. Just because you don't know this or understand it doesn't mean its bad info. Sorry no disrespect. Even for me it took me awhile to finally learn how to build subwoofer set ups properly and I was working professionally in car audio. 


You built a sealed box that is inside of the trunk. The trunk is a box that has vents/ports. Vents that exit to the outside of the car and holes that go into the interior of the car through the rear deck and seatback. So you have a sealed box inside of a ported box. 

What is a bandpass enclosure? Its a sealed box inside of another box that has a port. Basically what you have built. 

A bandpass enclosure is not bad and has its advantages. More output at lower frequencies within a narrower band compared to sealed or ported enclosures. One of the main disadvantages that I've seen bite people in the a$$ is the fact you can't hear the distortion of the speaker and can damage speakers more easily in a bandpass. Also as I stated previously in this kind of bandpass design using the trunk when you put items into the trunk and it changes the tuned frequency of the enclosure. 

Its also far from ideal to have the front of the subwoofer blocked off so much by the trunk panel. I can understand not wanting to cut the panel. Its just one more reason this set up is far from ideal for this car. 


Nice work on your wiring. Very few people take the time and money that you have to make their own cables and loom everything like you did. Its very rare that a audio shop would go to that level so its cool to see someone do it. The rest of the build is nice for a amateur/DIY install. :beer:


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

CCdave said:


> I am responding to this now because I don't want any bad info out there.


He was commenting on your "subwoofer attached to a single piece of MDF" from your post #19*, not the sealed corner enclosure you have currently. And his comments seemed correct to me.


*post 19: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5996060-Finally-getting-my-Dynaudio-sound-but-not-the-oem-stuff&p=82281990&viewfull=1#post82281990

<a href="http://s251.photobucket.com/user/ls1dave/media/VW%20CC%20speaker%20install/IMG_1183_zps89730d64.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg291/ls1dave/VW%20CC%20speaker%20install/IMG_1183_zps89730d64.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG_1183_zps89730d64.jpg"/></a>

EDIT: Or maybe he wasn't... I just reread his posts. All I can say is that sealed(or vented) enclosures inside a trunk is extremely common. I can understand if it's a trade-off, what would be more optimal? (smaller subwoofer in the main cabin under the seat?)

EDIT2: I get it now, a sealed (or even vented) box with the subwoofer firing through the armrest pass through. Makes sense, but the tradeoff is losing some/all of your fold-down seat utility.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

dogger said:


> The information that I posted is not bad info. Its basic principles of car audio. There are a lot of people who build subwoofer sets up like you did and they function just fine and sound good. But that doesn't mean they are the optimum or the ideal set up for this application. There are even people in car audio who don't understand how to build proper subwoofer enclosures and make these mistakes all the time. I've worked in car audio for 26 years and worked for Speakerworks back in the early 90's when they were building IASCA finals winning cars. I do know what I am talking about and I'm not here posting misinformation. Just because you don't know this or understand it doesn't mean its bad info. Sorry no disrespect. Even for me it took me awhile to finally learn how to build subwoofer set ups properly and I was working professionally in car audio.
> 
> 
> You built a sealed box that is inside of the trunk. The trunk is a box that has vents/ports. Vents that exit to the outside of the car and holes that go into the interior of the car through the rear deck and seatback. So you have a sealed box inside of a ported box.
> ...


I didnt mean to be offensive, all Im saying is that in your argument EVERY subwoofer setup in a car can be argued to be bandpass since a car is a "ported box". I have build literally 100s of boxes that were completely in the trunk of a car and none of them have ever sounded like a bandpass box.



> Nice work on your wiring. Very few people take the time and money that you have to make their own cables and loom everything like you did. Its very rare that a audio shop would go to that level so its cool to see someone do it. The rest of the build is nice for a amateur/DIY install. :beer:


thanks.

oops, i guess I forgot to put up the final result. Sorry I dont have any better pictures from the daytime. The flash makes the carpet look lighter than it actually is, and you can barely make out the VW logo. Also, dont mind that wire, its for the mic to tune to DSP.


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## Kadhren (Oct 10, 2013)

The trunk on the CC is ideal for this since its deep.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Kadhren said:


> The trunk on the CC is ideal for this since its deep.


Those pictures didn't show up...are they another cc setup?


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## Twonks (Apr 9, 2013)

Hi Dave,

Please can you tell me where you got the power cable through from the engine bay to the cabin?

In my 2013 CC I tried the factory loom behind the battery but couldn't get all the way through without serious resistance.

As it is quite a bunch of important wires I didn't fancy pushing too hard and risking cable damage.

Did you go in at a different place or drill new holes / go under the car ?

Thanks.


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## quality_sound (May 20, 2002)

dogger said:


> The information that I posted is not bad info.


Yes it is. If you disagree, call Eric. He'll set your straight. 


Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Twonks said:


> Hi Dave,
> 
> Please can you tell me where you got the power cable through from the engine bay to the cabin?
> 
> ...


Sorry for the delay in response, I haven't had much time for forums lately. I went from inside the car. I removed the under dash cover and there was a grommet that I pushed the wire through. I used a metal wire fishing tool and push it through until I could grab it from behind the battery. 

You do need to be careful of the wires going through the grommet but that applies to any install. Take your time and you will get it.


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

quality_sound said:


> Yes it is. If you disagree, call Eric. He'll set your straight.
> 
> 
> Sent from my Moto X using Tapatalk


That is why I don't go to a make specific forum for car audio advise. Diyma is a great resource, but still contains some bad info.


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## Twonks (Apr 9, 2013)

CCdave said:


> Sorry for the delay in response, I haven't had much time for forums lately. I went from inside the car. I removed the under dash cover and there was a grommet that I pushed the wire through. I used a metal wire fishing tool and push it through until I could grab it from behind the battery.
> 
> You do need to be careful of the wires going through the grommet but that applies to any install. Take your time and you will get it.


Hi Dave,

Thanks for the reply.

I managed to get it through the factory bulkhead after removing the battery and most of the air intake plastics.

Now I have a coiled 4awg under my mat in the cabin and a load of toys to go in - just can't find the time and motivation to do so.

Nearly bought an MS8 as well as they are currently at a good price over here, but want to try the RNS315 speaker out into the amp first as it is supposed to be a flat output. (and I don't intend to run the fronts active)


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## CCdave (Jan 13, 2013)

Ms8 is NOT a good option if you use the Bluetooth for your phone. The MS8 does an 8ms delay for all audio. Not noticeable except when you are on the phone and they hear themselves echoing in the background. I have to mute my phone every time someone is talking to prevent them from hearing them self in an 8ms delay.

I did my install in phases too as I had read that this car was tough to work on and I daily drive my car. Be careful with the metal clips that hold on most of the panels. I bend a bunch and you can't get those from any auto part store. The dealer sells them for a way mor than a simple bent piece of metal should go for.

On the flip side, I got bored of waiting to finish fixing my Old school Phoenix gold zpa0.5 amp so I bought one. I now also finished restoring my other one, so now I have two of these pretty rare Phoenix gold amps, one in black and the other in an even more rare white.



















The black one has been running my sub, the white one will go in to replace the McIntosh while I replace it's fans and inspect the internals for optimization. If I like the PG better at running my components (not active but off heir crossovers) then the Mac will go into my wife's car to run her entire system. When I ran my dyns off their crossover I remember the Midbass being much more punchy. That was with 100 watts. I lost some of that punchiness when I went active. Now I will have 300 watts going to each side.


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