# 20V Hybrid - How To



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*EXTERNAL WATER PUMP BLOCK:*

_Quote, originally posted by *John Doe* »_
*1.How do I fit a 20V on a PG block?* 

The same way you would fit an 8V or 16V Head onto any old style external water pump block such as *9A/3A/PG/PM*.
There are 3 Oil return ports at the rear of the head that need to be blocked as well one on the front.








*** For the (3) Oil returns @ the rear ,you can either: 
*1.* Weld them shut 
*2.* Use (3) 3/8" NPT plug which is tapered and made to seal fluid passages.
*** for the small Oil return @ the front ,if you have the:
*1.* *PG Block* you weld up the exisiting return and create a new one ("a") that matches the ABA Headgasket.
*2.* *ABA Block* you drill the ABA headgasket at the front oil return to match the AEB cylinder head.No modifications to the head are needed when using the crossflow blocks (ABA/9A/PL/AEB) since they have the necessary over hanging lip to ensure proper sealing of the headgasket. 
Make sure you use an ABA 4-Layer Metal Headgasket to ensure proper sealing
PART # : *037 103 383 N*
* For those wanting to know how to set the timing chain follow this useful link.

_Quote, originally posted by *John Doe* »_
*2.How do I put a 20V Head onto a PG Block and still retain the distributor for Digi-I?*

The whole point of this thread is too allow 8V PG G60 owners (and others) to upgrade there valvetrain without the need to upgrade there injection system.Jwatts & Mkrad have done alot of research and chip development (SNS Tuning) with Digi-I so getting a chip burnt for your application is not going to be too hard.
Anyways on with the show..for this your going to need the following pieces:

_Quote, originally posted by *What to Use* »_
_*1. CAM GEAR:*_
16V Cam Gear - 52T : *027 109 111H*
_*2. CRANK GEAR:* _
16v Crankshaft Sprocket - 26T : *027 105 236B*
_*3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:*_
Because your using a distribtuor you are going to want your camshaft & distributor to turn at a 1:2 ratio to the crankshaft.The only way to achieve this is by pressing on a 52T gear onto the IM shaft.In this case you have 2 options:
*1.* Using an AWP 20V (*06B 109 111*) Camshaft Gear and the 8V Intermediate shaft.Modify the keyway on the IM shaft to fit the camgear.The 8v used a press in half mood key way and the 20v cam gear uses a molded in 1/4 moon so it wont fit unless a path is cut in the IM shaft to fit the key onto the gear
*2.* Using the 16V Camshaft Gear along with the PL IM shaft.This maybe the more affordable route but it requires a spacer because the gear is going to be to far inward.
_*4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER - 153T BELT:*_ 
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
Since we are usng a 220mm PG block then either of the following 151-153T belts will work.
*All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile*
*1.* OEM AEB : PART# *058 109 119 C*
*5. PISTONS - 81mm*
*1.* Stock AEB 1.8T Pistons 
*2.* Custom set from JE Pistons through rhussjr
*3.* MAHLE 81.5mm upgrades from *034Motorsport*
*6. CONNECTING RODS:*
*1.* AEB Connecting Rods - The PG connecting rods are too short and the wrist pin diameter on them is 22mm as opposed to the AEB's 20mm.These can be had as a combination all over vortex for under $150US
*2.* 9A 144mm Connecting rods with ARP rod bolts
*3.* Forged 144mm Connecting rods from SCAT,Pauter,Corillo,Eagle,etc




_Quote, originally posted by *John Doe* »_
*3.How do I put a 20V Head onto an ABA Block and still retain the distributor?*

The same procedure used for the PG block will be adapted to the ABA block.The ABA block has a deck height of 236mm so its going to need a longer belt and this is where the difference in belts come into play.

_Quote, originally posted by *ABA uses a longer 158T belt* »_
_*4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER - 158T BELT:*_ 
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
* 52T IM Shaft gear used
*All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile*
*5. PISTONS - 82.5mm*
*1.* Stock 9A 16V pistons with a relief cut for the #5 valve
*2.* Custom set from JE Pistons through rhussjr
*6. CONNECTING RODS:*
*1.* ABA Connecting Rods with ARP bolts
*2.* Forged 159mm Connecting rods from SCAT,Pauter,Corillo,Eagle,etc




_Quote, originally posted by *John Doe* »_
*4.I want to build an ABA 20V but I dont need the distirbutor.What should my combination be like?*

Well since your no longer using a distributor then your IM shaft does not need to spin @ 1:2 ratio to the crankshaft so the following applies:

_Quote, originally posted by *What to Use* »_
_*3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:*_
Stock 9A or PL Intermediate shaft with matching 43T IM shaft gear.Make sure you have the oil pump gear to correspond with your IM shaft.
_*4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER - 157T BELT:*_ 
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
*All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile*
*1.* Contitech : PART# *STD 1256 S8M - A260107*
*2.* Gates : *PART # 5432XS*
_(Belt is from 1996 Fiat Bravia 1.6L 16v AH)_



_Quote, originally posted by *John Doe* »_
*5.What additional parts will I need?*

* *Exhaust Manifold* from an Audi A3/VW Golf 1.8 20V NA - *PART# 06A 253 031 E*
* *Intake Manifold* from an Audi TT Quattro - *PART# 06A 133 223 AT* or custom make your own.
* *Accessory Pulley's*
All the accessory's will align the same except for the crankshaft unit.You will need to either:
*A.* Purchase an ABA unit and machine it down 5.9mm
*B.* Purhcase a Diesel unit from Smokinjoe644
* *Optional Cogged Gear Pulley's*
* OEM Turbo Oil Pan [PART #:*068 103 601 L*]
* Breather Block off plate for 9A/ABA block : This can be sourced from forum elder *Peter Tong*




*INTERNAL WATER PUMP BLOCK:*

_Quote, originally posted by *John Doe* »_
*6.How do I impliment a distributor for Digi-I on an AWP 1.8T block?*

Some users dont want to go through the hassle of building a Hybrid motor and would prefer to start with a new engine from a 2002+ VW Golf/Jetta 1.8T.The obvious advantage to doing this is the low mileage and the availability of parts.Unfortunately for some users,the AWP/AWW/etc engines require full SEM systems (034EFi,etc) in order to get them up and running.Allthough SEM is an excellent choice,it is not smog legal in some States.A way around this is by implimenting Digi-I or similar fuel injection systems.
ReflexTuning offers a kit that allows users who have access to a new style 1.8T engine to run a distributor in the place of stock Hall/Camshaft position sensor allowing them to use Digi-I.The end result is a rather slick looking set up and requires no additional parts by the user.(other than the engine ofcourse)

_Quote, originally posted by *John Doe* »_
*7.Well I managed to score an AEG engine for dirt cheap and now I want to put a 20V head on it,what do I need to do?*

Well the fortunate thing about the AEG engine is that it is an internal water pump block engine,therefore the rear oil returns in the head do not need to be modified,however quite a few parts are needed.

_Quote, originally posted by *What parts are needed* »_
*1. PISTONS: *
The stock AEG pistons compensate for the 8V's 10:1 CR rather nicely but when paired with a 20V head,the CR drops to ~ 8.2:1 which is ideal for FI applications.Because the AEG block has an 82.5mm bore,sourcing stock "1.8T" 81mm pistons would be a waste of time and notching the allready low quality AEG pistons for a #5 valve is asking for trouble.The *AEG 20V REQUIRES* you to purchase custom pistons from either:
*1.* JE (through JRC Motorsports)
*2.* Weisco
As you will not find 82.5mm 20V pistons with a low CR.
*2. CONNECTING RODS:*
Just like the stock AWP 1.8T,the AEG also has weak connecting rods (rated @ 350bhp).Since the AEG 20V is a custom build it is recommended that you upgrade with forged units either from:
* Pauter
* Corillo
* SCAT (most affordable)
_*3. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER:*_ 
* OEM AWP/AWW 1.8T Timing belt
*All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile*
_*4. HEAD GASKET:*_ 
*06B 103 383 AF* - European head gasket with the 3 oil returns.AEG headgasket does not have the 3 rear oil returns.
_*5. PARTS NEEDED FROM 1.8T ENGINE:*_ 
Because your starting with a non-Turbo engine block,expect to need some stock 1.8T parts.You can always improvise with aftermarket components but having stock available is always a plus.
* oil filter bracket (you can tap the stock AEG bracket for an oil feed)
* coolant Lines & hoses
* Coolant return line for turbocharger - This requires the rear of the AEG block for the coolant return fitting.
* Hyrbid Oil Pan
* Intake manifold
* Exhaust manifold


The End Result courtesy of *Twinscrew20V*:








& *Eurosport*

The collected information and projects in this thread is simply amazing...







Special Thanks goes out to the following as they made this happen:
* *Shawn DeZego* who has been nothing but *GREAT* with his helpfullness and attention to detail!Below is an image of the current state of his *ABE G60 Project*.
  
_(click image to enlarge)_
* Twinscrew20V
* Scirocco20v/GTibunny16v 
* rhussjr
* smokinjoe644
_*Other Vortexer Projects:*_
*Westcoastjay's Proect thread*
*WolfGTI's Project thread*
***Useful thread on FI ITB's***
_*Some Additional Information that I found/Calculated:*_

_Quote, originally posted by *Head Chamber CC's* »_
*PG 8V* Head Chamber = *29cc* (_counterflow_)
*PL 16V* Head Chamber = *49cc*
*ABA 8V* Head Chamber = *30cc* (_crossflow_)
*AEB 20V* Head Chamber = *42cc*



_Quote, originally posted by *ROD RATIO and other Values for Common VW Hybrid's* »_
*Block = PG*
Deck Height = 220mm
Rod Length = 136mm
Stroke = 86.4mm
*ROD RATIO = 1.57*
Bore = 81mm
Compression Height = 40.8mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 22mm
Displacement = *1780cc*
*Block = 3A/9A*
Deck Height = 220mm
Rod Length = 144mm
Stroke = 92.8mm
*ROD RATIO = 1.55*
Bore = 82.5mm
Compression Height = 29.6mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 20mm
Displacement = *1984cc*
*Block = ABA*
Deck Height = 236mm
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 92.8mm
*ROD RATIO = 1.71*
Bore = 82.5mm
Compression Height = 30.6mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 21mm
Displacement = *1984cc*
*TDI CRANK*
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 95.5 
*ROD RATIO = 1.67*
Bore = 83.5mm
Compression Height = 29.25mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 21mm
Displacement = *2091cc*
*ABA CRANK*
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 92.8mm
*ROD RATIO = 1.71*
Bore = 83.5mm
Compression Height = 30.6mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 21mm
Displacement = *2032cc*
*AEB 1.8T CRANK*
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 86.4mm (AEB Crank)
*ROD RATIO = 1.84*
Bore = 83.5mm
Compression Height = 33.8mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = Whatever Piston you choose
Displacement = *1892cc*


For those of you that have hybrid parts for sale.Feel free to post them in here but please follow the rules.


_Modified by Issam Abed at 10:25 PM 7-15-2009_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

This is a 16V using the Distributor in the block...You would have to use a Peugeot Distributor cap for both the 16V and 20V setup just to clear the manifolds.The Stock 8V cap is too tall. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 9:31 PM 11-14-2006_


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## Fedawg (Jul 24, 2003)

dude , nice write up


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## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_And this is Eurosport's.Its supposed to be a N/A 20V unit from Europe.I could be wrong but its the same concept:










Is that an ITB 20V setup? or am i on acid?
Question. is there any way to run G60 pistons on this setup? Sourcing the head should be easy enough but the addition of pistons will damn near double the price of this setup. i'd like to use as much of the orgional G60 as possible on this setup.


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: (G'D60)*

thisis what i was looking for . every question i had was anwsered , please make this a sticky. cause i dont want to hunt for it later . 
dame good post. i just need to get a corrado , or i may throw one og these in my gti. 
question, i have a 9a bottomend with je 9.1 compression pistons in it . besides haveing them but for the valves, would my compression go up with the 20v head ? 
i am running a 8v head on the block right now and have 14:1 because of the 8v head. but the piston are set for 9;1 on a 16v head. anyone know what my compression would be ?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (G'D60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G’D60* »_
Is that an ITB 20V setup? or am i on acid?

Those are Webbers(carbs) 45's i Believe.

_Quote, originally posted by *G’D60* »_
Question. is there any way to run G60 pistons on this setup? Sourcing the head should be easy enough but the addition of pistons will damn near double the price of this setup. i'd like to use as much of the orgional G60 as possible on this setup. 

Stock a G60 has a CR of 8:1.The G60 Pistons have a piston dish 25 cc's whereas the 20V pistons have 0 dish.So theoretically all the dish of a 20V is in the head.
Placing a 20V head on a G60 piston will cause the CR to be extremely low,something like 7:1 CR.If you place a 20V head on a ABA block the CR drops from 10:1 to 8.5:1 and this is good but the G60 is a low compression engine.
You could always get custom pistons made from JE,using your stock G60 rods which arnt that bad.

_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_thisis what i was looking for . every question i had was anwsered , please make this a sticky. cause i dont want to hunt for it later . 
dame good post. i just need to get a corrado , or i may throw one og these in my gti. 

Thanks alot
I am working on trying to get this made a sticky but it is allready in FAQ.My issue is the FAQ thread relates to 8V G60's.Automatically when someone sees the FAQ they associate it with 8V G60's.There is no real documentation about how to do a 20V G60.Bahn Brenner has there 16V G60 documented and the distributor is in the head so its not a problem there.
Lets hope some good comes of this.









_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_
question, i have a 9a bottomend with je 9.1 compression pistons in it . besides haveing them but for the valves, would my compression go up with the 20v head ? 
i am running a 8v head on the block right now and have 14:1 because of the 8v head. but the piston are set for 9;1 on a 16v head. anyone know what my compression would be ?

Very Nice CR.With a 20V Head your CR will be 9.5:1 or there abouts because the 16V head has a bigger dish than the 20V Head.
Someone posted some time ago the difference in the cc #'s between the 2 heads but for sure the 16V head takes up more cc's over the 20V.
TwinScrew report to HQ's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Keep em coming fellas! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:11 AM 3-28-2006_


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## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

8v counter flow has been measured to 29cc, Cross flow to 30cc, and the 16v was a 49cc head. the 20v is a 42cc head and the piston IS dished...But it ranges depening on which pistons you use (my 9.3:1s were 8cc) The G60 bits will be WAY too low and theres really no way to use them. You may get away with 8v parts but you'll kill you're combustion efficiency due to where VW worked the quench area. I paid $150 for a complete set of used pistons and Rodsfor my motor...And as a bonus...They bolt right in (48mm rod journals on both motors







) Just find a set...Theyre out there. Why spend the time and money to build a better flowing motor if it burns inefficiently???
Edit for crammed cluttered brain


_Modified by TwinScrew20v at 9:48 AM 11-9-2004_


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

i know the answer is in here somewhere , but i didnt see it . if i put the head on my 9 block, i would use a 8v dist. in the block , what wiring would i use ,i have a complete metronics set up , would i be able to use that or would i just use a digi 1 for it . i am great with the wench but wiring scares me a little. so far it doesnt seem hard to make it all work , but i need to understand how i will wire it up. 
what i see is use a digi 1 set up and use a 1.8t fuel rail . but how would i get the spark plug wires to work cause the 20v head is a coil head. or do i just use 16 v wires ?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (herby53-akaherby53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_i know the answer is in here somewhere , but i didnt see it . if i put the head on my 9 block, i would use a 8v dist. in the block , what wiring would i use ,i have a complete metronics set up , would i be able to use that or would i just use a digi 1 for it . i am great with the wench but wiring scares me a little. so far it doesnt seem hard to make it all work , but i need to understand how i will wire it up. 

I would use the Digi 1.I have no experience with motronic set up.
a G60 Distributor will work in either a *3A/9A* Block.But you will have to use the 3A/9A Intermediate shaft because the 1.8 shaft will hit the crank.
Wiring up Digi 1 is pretty simple...there loads of info as to how to wire it up.

_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_
what i see is use a digi 1 set up and use a 1.8t fuel rail . but how would i get the spark plug wires to work cause the 20v head is a coil head. or do i just use 16 v wires ?

You would use 16V Plug wires from Thomas Woody and a Peugeot or Citroen distributor cap because the 8V dizzy cap will interfere with the intake manifold. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Or you can go with Bahn Brenner the forum sponsour,Pictured is there 8V set.They do have a 16V set but you get the idea..










_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 1:39 PM 11-9-2004_


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

i have a 8v intermedate shaft in the block right now , never hit the crank. you ned to change the shaft to a 8v one becasue the 16v one wont turn the dist. ( that is want cullen told me , so i bought a new one and the bigger dist. gear for it . i bought a aba one. i dont have to change the crank out right . remember that it is a 9a block , th eonly thing i did to the block is this.
9a RST crank ( knifed and balanced )
9a rods ( arp bolts, balanced and polished )
aba intermedate shaft ( put on a lath and balanced and lightened )
aba dist. gear
adaptor for dist. to fit in block
9a/3a block off plate
8v oil pump aba
8v crank gear
what else can i do or do i have to do.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_i have a 8v intermedate shaft in the block right now , never hit the crank. you ned to change the shaft to a 8v one becasue the 16v one wont turn the dist. ( that is want cullen told me , so i bought a new one and the bigger dist. gear for it . i bought a aba one. i dont have to change the crank out right . remember that it is a 9a block , th eonly thing i did to the block is this.

16V and 8V IM shafts are the same.I know this first hand because my engine is a 9A 8V.The 9A and 3A are the same blocks just different Numbers.In the 16V a separate gear/cog links the IM Shaft and Oil Pump whereas in a 8V this gear/cog is replaced by the Distributor.

_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_
9a RST crank ( knifed and balanced )
9a rods ( arp bolts, balanced and polished )
aba intermedate shaft ( put on a lath and balanced and lightened )
aba dist. gear
adaptor for dist. to fit in block
9a/3a block off plate
8v oil pump aba
8v crank gear
what else can i do or do i have to do.

Are you trying to piece together the parts to build a 20V 9A?


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

well i only payed 35 for a nes shaft, wish i was told that i didnt need to buy a new one. they looked the same when they were out of the car , oh well
yes , i have this bottom end in my car right now running it with a 8v head. ( same as you ) but i am thinking of putting a 20v head on it . so everythign i wrote is in my motor already. running on cis-e currently. i knoe the cis-e will have to be thorwn out , just want to know if i have to replace anything i put in the motor already. it is a really mean 8v motor , but if i have to change anythiing in it , i may build up a nother 9a have laying around.
basicaly , can i do the hybrid of the 20v head o my 9a block , with out having to pull my crank out or the insides of the block out. just change the gears on the out side of it.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*

Ok got you.

_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_
1.9a RST crank ( knifed and balanced )
2.9a rods ( arp bolts, balanced and polished )
3.aba intermedate shaft ( put on a lath and balanced and lightened )
4.aba dist. gear
5.adaptor for dist. to fit in block
6.9a/3a block off plate
7.8v oil pump aba


What you would need is 
1.16V Crankshaft Gear
2. 20V Camshaft Gear
3. For bling factor either a Techtonics adjustable 20V Cam Gear or 16V Cam Gear.
Make sure that if your using ABA distributor that you use ABA IM shaft and whatever else.Not sure if there is any difference between *PG/9A/3A* oil pump and *ABA* Oil Pump.I know the 3A and 9A have different oil pump shafts(for the gear) but there are identical pumps.
Once you have the 20V Cam Gear(2.) ,have a machine shop machine the ABA Intermediate shaft to allow the 20V cam Gear to fit snuggly on it.
I am not sure if your #5 valve will hit the pistons because I cant see the design but I would remove the engine and build it up nice so you can take pictures for us. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*

have you ever seen the je 9.1 pistons? they are dished and cut for the two valves on a 16v . i would think that i will nedd them cut different. the aba oil pump is supossed to flow more, but i dont know if that is true. my oil pump and dist. are all set , that s why i changed the gear on it , to work with the aba one. so there isnt muc for me to do . the insides just got built up , only have 190 miles on the motor. and the only thing i would have to remove is the shaft to get it machined . not bad. i didnt want to have to pull my rods off again and have to get them resized ( again ). i may be able to run 2 gaskets to clear the valve. maybe . i dont wnat to do that , but i did it before to drop my compression before i got the je pistons. will have to look and see. any one how mush valves are each for a 20v , the head i am looking at has 3 bent ones( 1 intake camber )


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*

my dist. i am using is a 8v cis-e dist. same sive as the g-60 one. i have a adaptor ring to make it fit in the 9a block. so i will pick up a g-60 dist. to work with the digi 1 . the head is around 250 shipped


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: (G'D60)*

i had to get the ring form TT to fit my dist. in the whole , the whole is bigger in a 9a block then ina stock 8v block. you should of had the same thing. the 8v dist. ( 1986 gti ) is skinner then the aba one. soi figured that the g-60 one is like the stock 8v one


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## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (herby53-akaherby53)*

There is a valve releif cut into the 20v piston for the 3rd intake valve (the center one) This may be a factor with the 16v pistons. There are no other releifs cut in the 20v Pistons. The G60 Dizzy is the same as the 8v (ive put 8vs in G60s before...Just make sure the hall sender has the same amonut of windows as the G60 Dizzy...I cant remember if its the 1 or 4 right now Ive been playing with both lately) 16v cams sprocket or adjustable cam sprocket will work...But if you go adjustable use the 16v cam bolt washer (the 20v it too large) and the 20v cam bolt!!! Id suggest the cam sprocket. Mine seems to have a slightly higher end power band to the butt at 0 degree and feels alot better at about 4 degrees advanced on the cam.
The oil pumps in the 9A, PG and ABA all use 36mm gears...But the PG pump is EXPENSIVE and ABA is fairly cheap...But I read the same pressure and temps with the ABA as I did with a good PG (in my 8v). So Im runnin the ABA...9A has no provision to run the dizzy if I remember correctly...Its just centered on the plug in the block (its been some time but I think it was like that...Mebe Ill go dig that out again Hahaa) The 16IM shaft is pretty damn near the same as an 8v short of the pullye mounting. I played with both...And the 8v one allowed the better spacing for the correct SIZED sprocket. THIS it what makes the two spin at different rates. There is a woodruff key pressed into the 8v IM shaft...Pop it out (small flat head screw driver) and extend the groove to the outter edge of the IM shaft and the allow you to fit the 20V CAM sprocket (Cam and IM shaft need to be the same size...16v is the same but the spacing is goofy) And use a 16v cam spocket again for the cam itself.


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

ok , i am a quick study , and learing a lot right now , so this is what i need for parts ( besides the little things )
20v intermed. gear
20v adj cam gear
16v crank gear
machine the im shaft
what head bolts do i use?


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## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*

oh , and pull my pistons out to cut the relief in it for the 3rd valve. 
then my insides should be done . and plug the 3 holes in the head
then it is mounted on.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*

Thanks *Twinscrew20V* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_
*1.20v cam gear - machine the im shaft to fit this gear*
2.20v adj cam gear
3.16v crank gear
what head bolts do i use?

Your placing a 20V Cam Gear on the IM Shaft, makes everything simple.You can use either another 20V Cam Gear for the Camshaft or go all out and buy an adjustable unit.More than likely if you buy a 20V head from someone there going to sell you it with a Cam Gear.You use this cam gear for the IM Shaft and just buy an adjustable unit to replace the one you use on the IM shaft.
For Head Bolt,use the same ARP units that you have in your block. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

this post is great , 
so i could use my arp head bolts s, they are for a 8v head. that is the bolt i set i got. 
wow, i may just do this to my gti. if it doenst sell by end of dec. then it is going under the knife. either this way or just a 16v turbo. 
thanks guys , i will continue to watch this post


----------



## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

i thought that the 20v and 16v heads are higher up , so they need longer bolts, i have the 8v set , i just thought that they are shorter , am i wrong?


----------



## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Or use AEB 1.8T head bolts from a 98 Passat...Some audis and I think the 99 also use the AEB but 98 is a deffinate.


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (TwinScrew20v)*

GREAT THREAD!
my inbox is gettin real full. TwinScrew how reliable has ur setup been? is the car a daily driver? if i do this swap, i want it to WORK. any info would be great
PS MODS MAKE THIS A STICKY!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (TwinScrew20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TwinScrew20v* »_Or use AEB 1.8T head bolts from a 98 Passat.

But if he is using a 9A block wouldnt he want to get ARP hardware for a 9A Block?I read that there is a difference between the ABA and say 9A head bolts.
I know PG and 3A/9A have trhe same head bolts.
hmmm

_Quote, originally posted by *G’D60* »_
PS MODS MAKE THIS A STICKY!!!!!!!!!

There Working on it... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

you guys are missing something, i have arp bolts for a 8v not a 9a block , i bought them becasue i have a 8v head on the block. the 20v and 16v heads are taller so that iswhy i thought i would need new bolts, i will ask it this way:
are the arp head bolts the same for a 16v and a 8v. iknow they cost more for 16v . but if they are the same thing then i maybe able to use the ones i have right now. 
my 8v head isnt off the block to see if my 16v head will fit withthe bolts.


----------



## herby53-akaherby53 (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*

are the 16v good to use with the 20v head, ( the 8v ones i have work with the 9a block just fine. but are shorter. why does this sound hard, i will just buy 20v arp ones , easyly done. thanks for all the great advise. keep this post on the top then it will be a sticky


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## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (herby53-akaherby53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herby53-akaherby53* »_are the 16v good to use with the 20v head, ( the 8v ones i have work with the 9a block just fine. but are shorter. why does this sound hard, i will just buy 20v arp ones , easyly done. thanks for all the great advise. keep this post on the top then it will be a sticky
 If you're going to buy new ones...Get eht AEB ones then theres no question. Same pitch and size hole bu correct length. Other 1.8Ts use a smaller bolt.
Mine is a daily driver and so far has been reliable even in its many abused states







AC and everything is still there...But Ive been busy prettifying it to actually get the AC hooked up (needs a custom AC line made) Made it to SoCal and back with ZERO issues for Dubfest and has a touch over 12000 miles on it so far. My only currebnt issue is Im still running my old bracket mounted timibng belt tensioner and never did get it set right after the belt stretched...Im actually working on swapping the Prelude belt in as we speak (hopefully Ill get off my butt and actually finish it today







) then we'll have a diffinitive answer for the Timing belt issue.


----------



## CABNFEVR (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Could someone post some pics of AEB 1.8t's out of car. Possibly top front like previous pictures and side view showing factory belt set up.


----------



## CABNFEVR (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Perfect, thanks







Any chance a non cut away version is out there?


_Modified by Reaper at 2:08 PM 11-10-2004_


----------



## CABNFEVR (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

need to see complete belt set up


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## CABNFEVR (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You stated in the other thread that you could use the g60 brackets on the AEB. Just wondering if I dont need AC or PS if the charger and alt could be mounted in the front of the engine not having to mount the alt in the back. Any idea?


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## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (Reaper)*

You can...But it wont be a G60 alt. You'll have to do some experimenting to find one that you can mount below the charger. Look thru the 16vG60 Yahoo web group. Some of the fuys there have had some success with it.


----------



## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

You can run it but its kinda tuff.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TwinScrew20v* »_You can run it but its kinda tuff.

Oh well an MR2 electical unit will have to work


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I was planning on using the 16v intermediate shaft with the 16v cam gear on it so I don't have to cut anything and I don't need an extra 20v cam gear. You know the routine PL shaft goes into the 1.8 blocks, 9A goes into a 2.0.


----------



## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_I was planning on using the 16v intermediate shaft with the 16v cam gear on it so I don't have to cut anything and I don't need an extra 20v cam gear. You know the routine PL shaft goes into the 1.8 blocks, 9A goes into a 2.0.

Your spacing will be wrong for this with either the 16v or 20v sprocket and the 16v cam sprocket will rub on some of the bracketry. If you shim it to space out correctly you will have maybe 2mm of keyway in the IM shaft and that MAY hold up for a little while but with how soft this metal is it wont last too long. 
You only need one 20v cam gear (for the IM shaft) and a 16v cam sprocket (for the cam)


_Modified by TwinScrew20v at 6:35 AM 11-12-2004_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TwinScrew20v* »_
Your spacing will be wrong for this with either the 16v or 20v sprocket and the 16v cam sprocket will rub on some of the bracketry. *If you **** it to space out correctly you will have maybe 2mm of keyway in the IM shaft and that MAY hold up for a little while but with how soft this metal is it wont last too long.* 
You only need one 20v cam gear (for the IM shaft) and a 16v cam sprocket (for the cam)









explain?
Pic for fun:








I have been getting alot of PM's pertaining to if this can work on an ABA so i did some research.Same rules follow.
This was Taken from Race101 Project 20/20,Placing the 20V Head on an ABA Block.Same concept applies for ABA/PG/PM/PL/Old style dizzy hole in the block.
Pics available here:

They Modified the Oil return* "a"* and Blocked 3 of the pipe plugs *"b"*
















ABA Bottom Half with JE 83mm Pistons and Morosso Oil Pan
















If anyone has anymore pics please post and contribute to the thread! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif











_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:13 AM 3-28-2006_


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

sorry i'm gonna sound dumb here, but the thermal effects on a head with those plugs are?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_sorry i'm gonna sound dumb here, but the thermal effects on a head with those plugs are?

none as far as I know,TwinScrew has been running his for some time now and I have not heard any complaints.
Both the 8V and 16V Head had 2 returns,I am sure the oil will find its way down and once you have an Oil cooler all should be good to go.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

so no chances of hot spots?


----------



## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_sorry i'm gonna sound dumb here, but the thermal effects on a head with those plugs are?
 Negligible with a pipe thread. The aluminum of the head expands at a greater rate than the steel the plugs are made of and shrinks 'in' on the plug. And when it contracts...Being a tapered pipe plug...One point in the plug will be tight (if installed correctly) Thats actually part of the reason for the taper of a pipe plug http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re:*

ok so i have an AEG 2.0 is it the same as the ABA and could i use my stock coil
does the compression really matter if your gonna turbo it i mean it'll be betetr to keep the compression lower if you got a turbo in there


----------



## temporalwar (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
















ABA Bottom Half with JE 83mm Pistons and Morosso Oil Pan











Found project on the site
http://www.race101.com/project_2020.html
I thought there was a way to put a 20V head on a ABA, a saw a Corrodo with huge track numbers with one in a video and wondered how they made it happen, would be awsome to see how it would run with a stock DigiII system just for ****s and gigles (I would get a new standalone later)



_Modified by temporalwar at 1:46 AM 11-13-2004_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_ok so i have an AEG 2.0 is it the same as the ABA and could i use my stock coil

The AEG follows the new design with an Internal water pump meaning it also has 5 oil returns whereas the AEB is a tall deck block and follows the old style external waterpump route.Conclusion...they are different.Are you trying to fit a 20V Head on the AEG Block of ABA Block?

_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
does the compression really matter if your gonna turbo it i mean it'll be betetr to keep the compression lower if you got a turbo in there

Compression matters for what goal is.TS runs a 9.5/9.3:1 CR and says he is going to go higher.For a 20V G60 or 20V Turbo the ideal CR would be around the high 9's (or a 10:1







)

_Quote, originally posted by *temporalwar* »_
I thought there was a way to put a 20V head on a ABA, a saw a Corrodo with huge track numbers with one in a video and wondered how they made it happen, would be awsome to see how it would run with a stock DigiII system just for ****s and gigles (I would get a new standalone later)


The ABA Block is the same as the PG block just different bore and taller deck.This thread applies to all VW Blocks...even AEG.If you use an ABA block then I would advise the ABA IM shaft and Distributor just for simplicity.
Digi II is a pissy system....i cant even imagine what MAF you would use










_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:36 AM 11-13-2004_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
The AEG follows the new design with an Internal water pump meaning it also has 5 oil returns whereas the AEB is a tall deck block and follows the old style external waterpump route.Conclusion...they are different.Are you trying to fit a 20V Head on the AEG Block of ABA Block?
_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:36 AM 11-13-2004_

yeah my 2.0 has a AEG block and i'm thinking of putting the whole top half of a 1.8T on so the manifolds and the turbo. i was also told that i would have to change the bottom end of my engine if i went past 220whp, but i donno if the guy knows i have an AEG or if they are the same bottom. if you know if i would need to change it can you tell me please cuz i don't really wanna spend the money and if i can i wanna put a k04 turbo if i do the 1.8T top swap


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
yeah my 2.0 has a AEG block and i'm thinking of putting the whole top half of a 1.8T on so the manifolds and the turbo. i was also told that i would have to change the bottom end of my engine if i went past 220whp, but i donno if the guy knows i have an AEG or if they are the same bottom. if you know if i would need to change it can you tell me please *cuz i don't really wanna spend the money* and if i can i wanna put a k04 turbo if i do the 1.8T top swap

Its addictive...you will have to spend money







.I am not sure why the block would fall apart @ 220whp







seeing that guys are putting down more power with there stock 8V's.
For the Record i am sure you can fart harder than a K04 Turbo


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Its addictive...you will have to spend money







.I am not sure why the block would fall apart @ 220whp







seeing that guys are putting down more power with there stock 8V's.
For the Record i am sure you can fart harder than a K04 Turbo









but then that means i can fart harder then a ko3 which is whats un the 1.8T anyways but a stock 1.8T with a ko4 outs 220 whp and 289 wheel torque so if i was to put it in a 2.0 with the 20v head i'll prob be at about 240 whp and he never said the block would break up the pistons will start to break and rods and crank 
which is why i asked if the AEG bottom end is stronger then ABA


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
but then that means i can fart harder then a ko3 which is whats un the 1.8T anyways but a stock 1.8T with a ko4 outs 220 whp and 289 wheel torque so if i was to put it in a 2.0 with the 20v head i'll prob be at about 240 whp and he never said the block would break up the pistons will start to break and rods and crank 
which is why i asked if the AEG bottom end is stronger then ABA

Thats why buying part by part is better than buying a complete 1.8T engine with half the stuff being useless(stock manifold,stock turbo,etc).
I know the ABA(OBD1) block itself to be a very good block.Has oil squirters,strong rods and rumoured to have a forged crank.
As for the AEG 20V combo,he could always get a fuzzed AEB engine and use his crank and rods in there with JE pistons


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## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Thats why buying part by part is better than buying a complete 1.8T engine with half the stuff being useless(stock manifold,stock turbo,etc).
I know the ABA(OBD1) block itself to be a very good block.Has oil squirters,strong rods and rumoured to have a forged crank.
As for the AEG 20V combo,he could always get a fuzzed AEB engine and use his crank and rods in there with JE pistons









well i wan't planning on buying a whole 1.8T engine







just plan on buying the head and eventually getting a ko4 turbo kit with the software and stuff but frome what i heard the 1.8t crank would make my engine less then 1.9 liters http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif







and if its said to have a forged crank thats sick







lol but yeah i have my heart set on this mod and i won't do it till i have the ko4 turbo and all the required parts cuz i wanna get itdone chop chop cuz i don't have another car to drive so i'd prob buy all the stuff then and keep it in my garage till i'm ready to do the work prob next summer then i'll have a beast of a 2.0








also to add another thing to what i said before about the 220whp then i gotta change the bottom end i also heard 300 the stock internals can handle so who knows thats why i asked looks liek another post in the 2.0 engine forums


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

mabye but the 20v works on the AEG too does it not or would it cost less to swap a 1.8T engine in there


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *What Gears to Use* »_
_*1. CAM GEAR:*_
16V Cam Gear
_*2. CRANK GEAR:* _16v crank gear STOCK but an ABA crank pullye shaved 5.5mm with a new centering ring pressed in. Futrell Autowerks mods them for 80 if you supply it.
_*3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:*__Combination of a 20V Cam Gear and an 8V Intermediate shaft.dont mod the gear...Mod the keyway in the IM shaft to fit the gear. The 8v used a press in half mood key way and the 20v cam gear uses a molded in 1/4 moon. It wont fit unless a path is cut in the IM shaft to fit the key on the gear to. Now the 16v may be the same outside specs...But the spacing on the mounting hub is different. The 16v one sets the gear to far in and requires a spacer...But give you VERY little keyway bite on the IM shaft...USE THE 20v ONE!!!_
_*4. TIMINT BELT:*_
Prelude Timing Belt:
*contitech part # CT 879 (158 teeth)*


Thanks to *Rodney Huss *(*RhussJr*)who was able to take pics of an IM shaft of what exactly needs to be modded:

















Oh Yes
I forgot what chargers:
Well You could either Upgrade your G60 unit to a Stage 4 from Kompressor Kanada for *$875US* 








Oh Bahn Brenner for *$3099*







John,want to give some Input as to what you can do for a 20V G60?











_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:15 AM 3-28-2006_


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

what a pain in the ass... My engine is a new style block actually its an AWP block so i haven't had to play with all of this yet. 
Guess i'll find out when i build the aba 20v. Doesn't look too difficult haha.


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## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_Doesn't look too difficult haha. 
 Its not too bad. But if you're running a 1.8T without a Dizzy you git to ignore most of this


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

for those who are supercharging, the adr code normally aspirated version 20v has a nice 2 piece intake manifold that uses 4 rubber pipes to join the two sections, the section that bolts to the head can be used to hold the injecters and fuel rail and then a custom intake can be fabbed and welded on or else made in such a way to reuse the rubber pipes. i dont have a picture but you might find the part on etka or someone on here might know what im talking about?


_Modified by rallye driver at 8:37 AM 11-18-2004_


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## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_for those who are supercharging, the adr code normally aspirated version 20v has a nice 2 piece intake manifold that uses 4 rubber pipes to join the two sections, the section that bolts to the head can be used to hold the injecters and fuel rail and then a custom intake can be fabbed and welded on or else made in such a way to reuse the rubber pipes. i dont have a picture but you might find the part on etka or someone on here might know what im talking about?

















Polov8 posted these in the Fabrication forum a while back...Good to know the engine code now. Time to suck up to my sister in England







Polov8 also said this one is off of a 96 N/A A4 Audi. BTW...Note its a Big Port manifold. So either you use an AEB or hog out your small port head to match up if you want a reasonably smooth consistant flow http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by TwinScrew20v at 6:21 AM 11-18-2004_


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## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Any one have experiance with 1 of these toyota electric pumps?
What year MR2? Part number? I'm guessing its compatable with most power steering systems!?
Thinking of retro fitting to my RHD scirocco, any help is always appreciated- Rich


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rocco2.0gtiLondon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco2.0gtiLondon* »_Any one have experiance with 1 of these toyota electric pumps?
What year MR2? Part number? I'm guessing its compatable with most power steering systems!?
Thinking of retro fitting to my RHD scirocco, any help is always appreciated- Rich 


Why?If I recall the P/S set up in the scirocco/golf is pretty much out of the way.If you must use an MR2 Pump then your looking for one from the 1992 MR2.


----------



## rocco2.0gtiLondon (Feb 26, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I have an ABA turbo, no V belt alternator setup and a pretty busy bay.
The electric pump would offer me some options if i cant fit the ABA style power steering pump.
The only problem with the MR2 style electric pump is that in the MR2 it was connected to an ECU with speed sensors etc, that possibly controlled what pressure the pump runs as the car gets faster!
It could make steering too light at high speeds, but i wonder how the stock pump works? It must spin faster as engine spee grows?









-Rich


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rocco2.0gtiLondon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rocco2.0gtiLondon* »_I have an ABA turbo, no V belt alternator setup and a pretty busy bay.
The electric pump would offer me some options if i cant fit the ABA style power steering pump.
The only problem with the MR2 style electric pump is that in the MR2 it was connected to an ECU with speed sensors etc, that possibly controlled what pressure the pump runs as the car gets faster!
It could make steering too light at high speeds, but i wonder how the stock pump works? It must spin faster as engine spee grows?


Is that your engine Bay?What numbers are you putting down?
And we are highjacking the thread








About the ECU,you dont need all of that.From what I understood is when the Pump is under load (aka turning) then it works but in a straight line the car feels as though it has manual steering.I would not know until I try my unit out for myself,but it makes sense to me because it is an electrical unit.
If you have the room going mechanical >>> electrical would be pointless because you may be saving mechanical HP needed to turn the pump but then the alternator will be under more load as these things draw upwards of 100A so whatever is saved will then be spent on the alternator.The bright side to all this is that you will only save HP when going in a straight line.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

why do you want one of those cam covers? is it because there is no oil breather?
why not use a modified stepper motor type power steering column from a fiat punto or opel corsa, you can buy a control box for them in the uk and can adjust the power assistance or turn it off completely! these have become very popular on irish rally cars lately


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_why do you want one of those cam covers? is it because there is no oil breather?

Because I am using 16V Plug wires.Using them with an AEB/AWP valve cover will cause me to have to make plates like what Bahn Brenner has shown here in order to secure the plug wires.Besides the ADR valve cover is just darn right sexier







(oil breathers arnt really an issue...nothing a little tap and die cant solve)









_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_
why not use a modified stepper motor type power steering column from a* fiat punto or opel corsa*, you can buy a control box for them in the uk and can adjust the power assistance or turn it off completely! these have become very popular on irish rally cars lately

Can you post a link with these? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I found this picture showing the *Head flow capabilities of the AEB Head/20V Head *http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 








EIP Tuning and there plug wires

_Quote, originally posted by *EIP TUNING VW 4 Cylinder 16 valve * »_
8mm high quality silicone insulated plug wires featuring factory beru ends. Applications for 86-up VW Scirocco, Jetta, Golf, Passat. 
Available colors: red, blue, black, yellow.
*1986-1992 A1, A2 Chassis $139.95*




_Modified by Issam Abed at 7:40 PM 2-4-2009_


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## Fumanchamos (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just saw this thread
Pic from Peter's Scirocco from Renner Motorsport (phone in sig) http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## naterkane (Feb 8, 2001)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Digi II is a pissy system....i cant even imagine what MAF you would use










porsche 944 n/a
same size as stock, but with a stiffer spring that won't open all the way unless there's alot of air pushing it back, (i.e for better flowing or higher displacement motors (which the 944 had both of).


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

When you use the 20v cam gear for the intermediate shaft gear you must get a AWD, AWW or AWP cam gear since the AEB gear is the same part # as the 16v, therefore the same specs as the 16v gear. The transverse motor gear has the correct spacing.

BTW: I tried to x reference the contitech # for the prelude belt and it comes up with nothing. I counted teeth on several prelude timing belts and none of them come close. Anyone know what year car and motor the belt comes from?


----------



## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: Re: (Scirocco20v)*

99 prelude...I have a gates (I think its gates) number for it at home. I counted 155T and it DOES fit a short block...ABA may be a squeeze.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

Ok, I found a 155T belt that comes on 92-98 2.2l VTEC motors. Ordered it from Napa which are Gates belts. I'll post up the part # when I get it.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

If anyone wants modded 8v intermediate shafts. PM me, I'll do it for $10 plus shipping cost back to you.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
sweet!Thinking about making kits guy for Vortexers? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Both KK and DahnBrenner have no interest in such kits.


I have no problem piecing together a kit but Im not sure how expensive it will be since Ill be using new pullies from the dealer. Ill call around and see if I can find the pullies cheaper from an aftermarket source.
It would include
Modded 8v intermediate shaft (send me yours or Ill charge a core charge)
16v crank pulley
20v cam pulley for intermediate shaft
16v cam pulley
16v timing belt tensioner, stud, nut and lock washer
timing belt
machined aba pulley (again core charge or ill charge you full price)
4 oil seals
If you guys think Im missing something let me know and Ill get some prices together either tomorrow or Weds.


----------



## Fumanchamos (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Isnt that just a 20V Valve cover on a 16V engine?CIS on a 20V....









Come on Wizard-of-OD, I thought you knew better??
Why would there be a distributor plate? Why would the intake manifold be modified?
The head does not determine what you use as fuel management. Yes that is an AEB (Passat head) 20V head mated to a 9A block and yes is is fed by CIS (VWMS Fuel Distrubutor). See some of us do think outside the box. 
You just killed your credibility with those kinds of remarks and whats with the







; it seems I should be the one with the







after reading such a response.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Fumanchamos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fumanchamos* »_
Come on Wizard-of-OD, I thought you knew better??
Why would there be a distributor plate? Why would the intake manifold be modified?
The head does not determine what you use as fuel management. Yes that is an AEB (Passat head) 20V head mated to a 9A block and yes is is fed by CIS (VWMS Fuel Distrubutor). See some of us do think outside the box. 
You just killed your credibility with those kinds of remarks and whats with the







; it seems I should be the one with the







aft
er reading such a response. 

Putting the best flowing head VW produces on a CIS system is like giving a blind man a book to read. 
You kill it by putting a flow restriction inline. Thinking "outside the box" doesnt mean that its better than thinking inside the box. 
Ok, its different but theres a reason why its different. Because most people wouldnt waste the time to build a motor only to kill it by flow restriction.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fumanchamos* »_
You just killed your credibility with those kinds of remarks and whats with the







; it seems I should be the one with the








after reading such a response. 


The reason I made such a conclusion because I came across the picture below about a year Ago.I ran It by a couple of VW Guru's and they call came to the same conclusion as I.It was definitely a 16V Head cast and not a 20V head cast .I thought it was 20V myself after seeing the Intake manifold bolts and cam fastener bolts next to the distributor.Before the conversion could turn technical where I could get more pictures of the setup,the thread turned into a CIS War and what an idiot the guy was.....


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Putting the best flowing head VW produces on a CIS system is like giving a blind man a book to read. 


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oh Ye for sure.....some people such as Toxcheap would swear blind behind CIS as he has managed to obtain an Audi inline 5 with 440+Whp on CIS







.But CIS on an NA motor http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
I will give the fabricator A for effort but F for choice of management.

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
It would include
Modded 8v intermediate shaft (send me yours or Ill charge a core charge)
16v crank pulley
20v cam pulley for intermediate shaft
16v cam pulley
16v timing belt tensioner, stud, nut and lock washer
timing belt
machined aba pulley (again core charge or ill charge you full price)
4 oil seals


Nice http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Include the Timing Belt and to spice things up a Little,include an Adjustable Cam Gear so that the original Cam Gear that comes with the head can be used on the IM Shaft. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I had asked TwinScrew20V to do this for everyone and he said he didnt want to but would offer advice wherever he could.Its great that someone can finally make a kit for this.
I believe onedub destruction wanted to build a kit for his engine.Have you ever worked with G60 electricals?










_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:20 AM 3-28-2006_


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Have you ever worked with G60 electricals?









People have called me....what was it, a digi Deity.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Heres some info. Napa charges $93 list for the timing belt. Honda charges $63 list. So, I got the Honda belt instead of the Napa.
Honda part # 
14400-P13-014
92-98 Honda Prelude 2.2l VTEC 
My brother has the digi camera. I modified the 8v intermediate shaft by cutting the pathway all the way through. The 16v intermediate shaft is cut the same way. I can take some pics with my phone and see if they come out decent.


----------



## GTI2lo (Dec 19, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I was told to post some of this information regarding the fitment of a cable throttlebody that works with the 1.8T intake manifold. Obviously the stock drive-by-wire unit is useless with management, so a obd 1 unit from a 2.0 or vr6 will work wonders. Now the stock TPS sensor also is capatible with most management systems because it is a 5v sensor. You can bore it out allowing for true staight thu flow optimizing air into the motor.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (GTI2lo)*

A 2l TB will bolt directly onto the stock transverse 1.8t intake manifold. The obd1 will work for most standalone systems. It is easy to mount an idle switch if you need it on those TB's also.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

No. If you run an SNS chip you no longer need the WOT switch just the idle switch. I just mount one on the TB. I have heard you can take apart the OBD 1 TPS to make it just an idle switch but Im not sure if that info is true. Ill have to look at the one Im getting to see if that is possible.


----------



## tnesh (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Isnt that just a 20V Valve cover on a 16V engine?CIS on a 20V....


















im glad u know the difference now.
by the way.. this set up by far even with cis is one of the most pissed off set ups yet. the car pulls like a freight train. not only scary, its.. ..unnnbeeelieeevabllee.
yade govna pedaras.
haha.







seriously. its a crzy set up. i have asked him to replicate for me when i had my car, but. .. its a secret


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (tnesh)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tnesh* »_








im glad u know the difference now.

We allready established that Fact....moving along http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for the CIS why dont you tell us more about it.

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_No. If you run an SNS chip you no longer need the WOT switch just the idle switch. I just mount one on the TB. I have heard you can take apart the OBD 1 TPS to make it just an idle switch but Im not sure if that info is true. Ill have to look at the one Im getting to see if that is possible.

Ok so the TPS in the Digi I is only 2 Pin?
what are there functions? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:21 AM 3-28-2006_


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

No TPS so to speak with digi 1. 
Digi 1 uses an idle switch and WOT switch. Idle switch is to cut fuel on decel and activate the ISV. WOT switch is for fuel enrichment. TPS is uses so the ECU knows where the butterfly position is all the time.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_No TPS so to speak with digi 1. 
Digi 1 uses an idle switch and WOT switch. Idle switch is to cut fuel on decel and activate the ISV. WOT switch is for fuel enrichment. TPS is uses so the ECU knows where the butterfly position is all the time.

Any possibility of converting an 3 Pin TPS to a 2 Pin Idle Switch?


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Like I said earlier, I have no clue. I will look at it when I have some time and see if its possible.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Like I said earlier, I have no clue. I will look at it when I have some time and see if its possible.

Any possibility you can get a picture of a Digi I sensor?cant seem to find a good picture of it.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

They arent sensors, just micro switches that are activated by the cam plate on the TB.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yep, VW uses the same switches on all CIS-E cars also.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Yep, VW uses the same switches on all CIS-E cars also. 

Ahh yes,fairly familiar with it.I do believe there is a procedure to upgrade it to a 3 pin TPS sensor using just 2 wires.No idea how tho


----------



## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

very good thread. 
I just found something interesting.
http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...g.pdf
check page 23
anyone see something different? I do
I tried to copy the image but did have any luck maybe someone else could do it.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

can the 20v head be swapped on a AEG like what was said before it has the water pump but i was never told if it could be doneand what holes i need to plug up and what i need to take out


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

The headgaskets between the 20v and the AEG or any mk4 2l engine seem to line up perfectly. I dont see any reason why it wont work.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_can the 20v head be swapped on a AEG like what was said before it has the water pump but i was never told if it could be doneand what holes i need to plug up and what i need to take out

None http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
AEG = New Style Block with 5 return holes
AEB = New Style Head with 5 return holes.


----------



## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Remember the AEG is also a shorter block and uses shorter rods than the 20v. I want to say they were 139mm??? Theyre not the G60s 136mm but theyre in the upper 130s. You'll have to double check that length. And the 20v rods are 144mm.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TwinScrew20v* »_Remember the AEG is also a shorter block and uses shorter rods than the 20v. I want to say they were 139mm??? Theyre not the G60s 136mm but theyre in the upper 130s. You'll have to double check that length. And the 20v rods are 144mm.
i have heard 141mm but you would think VW would stick with 144s. Anyway 20V head bolts straight on AEG type block but need to replace/modify pistons.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)*

They are 141mm rods in the mk4 2l. VW probably uses shorter rods to bring low end torque down a few hundred rpm in the power band.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

what about the timming belt is it the same size as the stock 2.0 or 1.8T or do i have to get a longer or shorter one
and who knows how much power the AEG bottom can handle i was told i would need to change the rods crank and piston after 220 whp


_Modified by GTi Leo at 4:47 PM 12-7-2004_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_what about the timming belt is it the same size as the stock 2.0 or 1.8T or do i have to get a longer or shorter one
and who knows how much power the AEG bottom can handle i was told i would need to change the *rods crank and piston after 220 whp*










I didnt think VWAG made butter Cranks.Your going to have to change the rods and pistons regardless if you want a desireable Compression Ratio.
As for the Timing Belt,the Stock 1.8T timing belt as the AEG has the same block highet as the AEB/AWD Blocks.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i'm putting the whole top half of a 1.8T so the turbo and the manifold and head so the compression no matter will be bumped up to a nice compression. wouldn't it????


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_i'm putting the whole top half of a 1.8T so the turbo and the manifold and head so the compression no matter will be bumped up to a nice compression. wouldn't it????

Ah
well I am not sure about the AEG but it should have a stock CR of 10:1.Now I am going to compare this to the ABA 8V which has a stock CR of 10:1.Placing a 20V head on an ABA block brings the CR down to 8.5:1 or there abouts.
My advice would be to get custom pistons made as you will have to cut a recess in that piston for the #5 valve. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Ah
well I am not sure about the AEG but it should have a stock CR of 10:1.Now I am going to compare this to the ABA 8V which has a stock CR of 10:1.Placing a 20V head on an ABA block brings the CR down to 8.5:1 or there abouts.
My advice would be to get custom pistons made as *you will have to cut a recess in that piston for the #5 valve.* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

what do you mean by that 
yeah stock compression is 10:1 and i'm still desiding weather to get a beefyer turbo and get forge internals


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

oh hmmm who knows but from what i heard with the other mk4 block(sorry i forgot what they call it. is it obo??) it would hit if i shaved down the gasket but not if its left alone


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
OBDI or OBDII and ABA?
lol thats it but yeah so i donno i may need to get the pistons custom but the ones on the G60 or other 2.0s don't need to be done???


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
OBDI or OBD II?


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_lol thats it but yeah so i donno i may need to get the pistons custom but the ones on the G60 or other 2.0s don't need to be done???

They all Need to be done except with a PG block you can use the original stock 1.8T rods and pistons.For the 2.0 Applications I recommend giving Rodney Huss (rhussjr) a Buzz as he can get JE pistons for the 20V fr around $550US in 83mm bore.You can use the AEG conrods for the time being and if in the future you feel skeptical about them,you could always have Pauter make a set to match your crank and JE pistons http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:20 PM 10-10-2005_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

what about double stanking the gaskets since i'm turboing it and will have a boost controller i can upp the boost and the compression will still be nice with added power and more valve clearance. i donno if it'll work but meh. or what about a thinker gasket


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_what about double stanking the gaskets since i'm turboing it and will have a boost controller i can upp the boost and the compression will still be nice with added power and more valve clearance. i donno if it'll work but meh. or what about a thinker gasket

the CR is allready "low" by most standards when placing a 20V head on an 8V block.Double stacking will drop the CR down a point bringing it to about 7.5:1,Maybe lower.The stock 1.8T has a CR from 9.3:1 to 9.5:1.I didnt know thinner HG's were available...got me there.
I would suggest the pistons dude.Honestly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

aight thats cool but now that i looking at the ABA block with JE pistons i don't see that hes got em modified for the 5 valve i looks like its just flat up agains the top of the block. 
do you know how much the valves open anyways like i'm trying to figure this out and your suggestens seem to be the best way to do it but there could be others i'm just trying to figure it out cuz i wanan do this it'll be like a mk 2.0T this way


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

lol what do you mean save it ABA is weak to and i'll have to change everything it would seem that the AEG would be stronger since its more liek the AEB


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_lol what do you mean save it ABA is weak to and i'll have to change everything it would seem that the AEG would be stronger since its more liek the AEB

Early AEB's had an external water pump and followed the old style of VAG Blocks.
and ABA is far from week my friend.You will have an advantage of a higher rod ratio when comparing the ABA to AWD/AEG
ABA has a rod length of 159mm whereas the AEB has a rod length of 144mm.My advice is to at least change the pistons.You wont go wrong http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

ABA is from a mk4 isn't it or am i stupid and thinking wrong
ugh i'll just swap a 1.8T its less hassle and cheaper and then i'll get it bored out and put 2.0 forged pistons if they will fit


_Modified by GTi Leo at 11:50 PM 12-8-2004_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_ABA is from a mk4 isn't it or am i stupid and thinking wrong
ugh i'll just swap a 1.8T its less hassle and cheaper and then i'll get it bored out and put 2.0 forged pistons if they will fit


Good Luck,Post up your findings http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Just a bit of Longitudinal mounting Reference for you Passat 1.8T guys/Audi A4 1.8T guys in terms of engine mount brackets for the *ABK/AEB* or *ABA/AEB* set-up


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

ABA = Mk3 engine
It wont bolt into a Mk4 chassis because it doesnt have the pass side engine mount mounting points. 
AEB will bolt into a mk3 no problem since it uses an older style block with the exception of extra oil drain holes.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_ABA = Mk3 engine
It wont bolt into a Mk4 chassis because it doesnt have the pass side engine mount mounting points. 
AEB will bolt into a mk3 no problem since it uses an older style block with the exception of extra oil drain holes. 


then which is the 20v head that will bolt up to a mk4 AEG is it the AWD


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Like Ive told you before, dropping a 20v head on a mk4 2l block seems pretty simple. You really only have to swap to a custom pistons, 1.8t headgasket, 2l timing belt and engine management to run it all. All 20v heads are the same at the deck surface. AEB's have larger ports and AWW/AWP engines have variable cam timing. 

If all goes well I will be building my buddies AVH into a 20v engine and have more info on the conversion in a few months.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*

hmm but which one have the 5 oil returns and which is better and is used on the 2002-2004 1.8Ts with 180 hp


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_hmm but which one have the 5 oil returns and which is better and is used on the 2002-2004 1.8Ts with 180 hp

AEG follows the new style of Blocks with an Internal waterpump.Only 1.8T engine to follow the old style of blocks was the AEB which was a modified old style external water pump with 5 return oil holes.
So physically a 1.8T 20V head will bolt up to a new model 2.0 block without any modifications.Just need to work on pistons. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Audi pistons can be used for N/A but will be too high for F/I so would need Wisecos, JEs, etc. http://www.porttuning.com has a selection of Wisecos and can get whatever you need.


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (vwpat)*

well the AEB is 9.5:1 compression, i'm guessing with some porting and good tuning, the g60/lysholm at lower boost you might be able to rock out 10:1 or 10.5:1 without blasting the motor apart.
remember those guys hit 240wft/lbs at 21psi peak torque at 14.5:1 air fuel ratio, so those are some damn well designed combustion chambers to take that abuse.
i'd probably say raise the compression if all you got is a g60 to blow it


----------



## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_well the AEB is 9.5:1 compression, i'm guessing with some porting and good tuning, the g60/lysholm at lower boost you might be able to rock out 10:1 or 10.5:1 without blasting the motor apart.
Considering Im wailin out 38 degrees advanced at 6500 on 11psi in 100 degree weather on 91 octane, Id agree http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Ill have some numbers here shortly. Im lookin to bump the compression to the 9.7ish range.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

The Audi 3.0L pistons are 11:1 IIRC but they they may be for long rods (i.e. ABA).


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_hmm but which one have the 5 oil returns and which is better and is used on the 2002-2004 1.8Ts with 180 hp


Because the motor puts out more hp stock doesnt mean its any better. They run more boost, a better flowing turbo and have variable cam timing. The AEB is actually a better engine since it comes with forged crank, rods and a big port head. Things the transverse motors wish they had.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

is the AEB german or mexican built

i gotta stupid question but here goes would the AEB crank fit a 2.0
























_Modified by GTi Leo at 10:22 PM 12-10-2004_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_is the AEB german or mexican built

i gotta stupid question but here goes would the AEB crank fit a 2.0























AEB = German








AEB Crank = 86.4mm Stroke
AEG Crank = 92.8 mm Stroke
the 2.0 comes from the Crank guy....


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
AEB = German








AEB Crank = 86.4mm Stroke
AEG Crank = 92.8 mm Stroke
*the 2.0 comes from the Crank guy*....









lol that means what they won't fit what if i change the rods


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
lol that means what they won't fit what if i change the rods 









come on man.The AEB crank Will fit in the AEG block but why would you do that?You pretty much "destroking" the engine carrying it from a 92.8mm (AEG) stroke to a 86.4mm (AEB) stroke.
Lemme guess,your going to use your 2.0 Block and stuff the 1.8 Crank,conrods and Pistons in there?
If so...again good luck.Bore of the AEG block is 82.5mm and bore of the AEB Block is 81mm.If your so mind set on placing a 20V head on the AEG block just get custom pistons made for 83mm guy.Simple. http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

lol not doing it just asking lol so pretty much the AEB has the same block as the 2.0. k thanks man i'll prob do the head thing and get the forged pistons to fit. you have given me lots of good advice thanks for your help


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

No the AEB block is no where close to the mk4 2l engine. The reasons have been stated before. Please read everything carefully


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_lol not doing it just asking lol so pretty much the AEB has the same block as the 2.0. k thanks man i'll prob do the head thing and get the forged pistons to fit. you have given me lots of good advice thanks for your help 

No....
*AEG* = Complete new Cast with Internal Water Pump and different style Oil Filter Flange.
*AEB* = Old Style Block with External Water Pump and Hole for a Distributor that has been modified for 5 Oil return holes.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## reflexbug (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

ok, I've read through this and I have a few quick questions... 
*20v head on ABA block... I've gotten conflicting info on weather or not you have to fill and mod the front oil hole, or if the ABA HG will solve this? 
*Will a 16v 9a t-belt tensioner work with this setup?
*Has anyone fit the Honda belt on this setup
*If I go turbo, what luck have people had putting the 20v head with the lower 8.5:1 ratio you get by bolting on the 20v head on the stock ABA block and pistons?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (reflexbug)*


_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_ok, I've read through this and I have a few quick questions... 
*20v head on ABA block... I've gotten conflicting info on weather or not you have to fill and mod the front oil hole, or if the ABA HG will solve this? 

The ABA HG will work and solve the problem.The early model blocks did not have the extra "ear" like the 9A and ABA blocks.If you feel insecure about this setup then you could always turn the oil return from an oval pattern to a Circular pattern http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_
*Will a 16v 9a t-belt tensioner work with this setup?

Yes

_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_
*Has anyone fit the Honda belt on this setup

Twinscrew20V did,dont know the outcome.A timing belt is a timing belt....the tensioner fixes up any issues you think your going to have.

_Quote, originally posted by *reflexbug* »_
*If I go turbo, what luck have people had putting the 20v head with the lower 8.5:1 ratio you get by bolting on the 20v head on the stock ABA block and pistons?

Dont know of anyone that has ever done it.I would just get the custom pistons and call it a Day.
$500US really that much to ask?
ABA 20V is a Supreme engine http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ...make it more supreme


----------



## 86 gti turbo nitrus (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (reflexbug)*

Like stated earlier you need to plug 3 of the oil drain holes in the back of the head. The compression is lower than 8.5:1 since the 20v has a larger combustion chamber than the 16v I suspect compression will be into the 7's especially since you have to notch the piston for the center intake valve. 
I'm in the process of building a 20/20 motor and I believe the Honda timing belt will work without issues. I wont know for a week or so since I have another 20v I need to get into my daily


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (86 gti turbo nitrus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86 gti turbo nitrus* »_









Keep your garbage out of my threads http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif .Damn morons that keep bringing down the Tex.









_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Like stated earlier you need to plug 3 of the oil drain holes in the back of the head. The compression is lower than 8.5:1 *since the 20v has a larger combustion chamber than the 16v *I suspect compression will be into the 7's especially since you have to notch the piston for the center intake valve. 

Nah guy,When you "cc" a 16V and you cc a 20V head,the 16V proves to have the larger combustion chamber in the head.Fitting a 20V head on an 8V block will bring the CR down to about 8.3:1 or there abouts.
I believe on Page 2 twinscrew posted his CC calculations.

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
I'm in the process of building a 20/20 motor and I believe the Honda timing belt will work without issues. I wont know for a week or so since I have another 20v I need to get into my daily









Very Nice
Do you mind taking pictures for the thread and possibly another write up?Thanks so much guy. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW are you using the ABA distributor?


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Its gonna be on sds so no dizzy.
When I did some research a while back I remember that the 20v head was like 3cc bigger than the 16v head. Guess people posted some bogus #'s


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

20V head is 41-42cc.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Managed to get in touch with Eurosport and figured out this is infact n AEB valve cover with a plate over the coil pack area to accept plug wires.Rather neet job of you ask me,just gotta figure out where to get those rub tubes around the plug wires from. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_20V head is 41-42cc.


_Quote, originally posted by *Killa* »_
16V Head = 45cc
20V Head = 41-42cc.

So pat you were right on.So putting a 20V head as apposed to a 16V head on an 8V Block will bring the CR higher than expected.
There ...documentation http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:24 AM 3-28-2006_


----------



## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I found this picture showing the *Head flow capabilities of the AEB Head/20V Head *http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









I have read through this whole thread looking for the reason why using a 20v head on a 2.0 block (ABA or 9A is what I'd want to use) is worth the work. This is what I have to say... it doesn't seem to be as much work as one thinks. Hats off to Wizard-of-OD for getting the info out to everyone, and keeping it all straight.
But to get back to my question..
The pic above compares a small and big port 20v head to 1.8 16v head flow rate. Good to know. It is too bad there isn't a 2.0 16v head in there too, as I understand its exhaust port flows better than the 1.8 16v. I'm not sure where the 2.0 16v intake port would sit. So someone answer these questions for me for me please.
1. The small port 20v head seems to have a well matched intake and exhaust flow rate. Is there an advantage to having a head flow *in* just as well as *out*, over having a head whos intake out flows the exhaust. My limited knowledge and own hypothetic assesment of this situation leads me to believe that a head that has a matching in and out flow rate is over all a better flowing head. No bottle necks is my thinking. I'm trying to understand how increasing intake flow over exhaust flow creates any reasonalbe power gains. Educate me please








2. Based on the chart I am going to try and guess the actuall flow rate of each port. This is just eyeballing it here...
20v big port
Intake = 225 cfm
Exhaust = 175 cfm

20v small port
Intake = 160 cfm
Exhaust = 160 cfm

1.8 16v
Intake = 175 cfm
Exhaust = 125 cfm
So, how much difference in the cfm's must be seen before you really see improvement in power. Will 10 cfm's make a noticalbe difference in the butt dyno? Or is 20 cfm's more likely to do that? Like comparing to motors whos HP ratings are 130 and 140. You really might not see or feel much difference in a grand sceme of things.
3. I think either way you slice it, either 20v head is a better choice over the 1.8 16v. So what are the numbers for a stock 2.0 16v head? I wonder if the stock 2.0 16v head might end up a better choice over the small port 20v. Then, further to that statement, since a 2.0 16v can be easily had for say $100, would it be more ecconomical to have a P&P job on the 2.0 16v, (typically what are the cfm's on a modded 2.0 16v?) and would the price of a professional P&P plus purchase price of the 16v head still come in cheaper than buying and fitting a 20v head to a 2.0 block?
TIA, again great thread. Even if I don't do a 20v head, the info to get a dizz mounted on the block is great for any application. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

Dont just look at the flow numbers when comparing the 16v head over the 20v head. The 20v combustion chamber is a better design than the 16v and can take alot more timing. Thus making it a more efficent and allows you to make more power. This is why I picked to build a 1.8l small port 20v instead of a 1.8l 16v turbo. Even though the 16v out flowed the 20v on the intake side.


----------



## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

Anyone wanting one of these manifolds to build a custom short runner intake manifold for the 20V engines? This is for the AEB "Big Port" head.


----------



## zornig (May 12, 2001)

*Re: (rhussjr)*

PM sent


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (zornig)*

Thanks for the props action Jackson.Imagine 5500+ Views and not even a sticky.Oh well









_Quote, originally posted by *Action Jackson* »_
3. I think either way you slice it, either 20v head is a better choice over the 1.8 16v. So what are the numbers for a stock 2.0 16v head? I wonder if the stock 2.0 16v head might end up a better choice over the small port 20v. Then, further to that statement, since a 2.0 16v can be easily had for say $100, would it be more ecconomical to have a P&P job on the 2.0 16v, (typically what are the cfm's on a modded 2.0 16v?) and would the price of a professional P&P plus purchase price of the 16v head still come in cheaper than buying and fitting a 20v head to a 2.0 block?
TIA, again great thread. Even if I don't do a 20v head, the info to get a dizz mounted on the block is great for any application. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Well I always learnt that the more CFM's your head flows the better off you would get power from it.Thats how the VTEC guys been doing it for years.
You have options though
*Small Port head* = Cheap Head /Loads of availability ,*Porting* = Twice the $$$ used on a Big Port.
*Big Port Head* = Expensive/Getting rare now, *Porting* = decent $$
Courtesy of *funksoulkitty* Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *funksoulkitty* »_
*AEB ports*:








*AWP ports*:








Intake Manifolds:











_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Dont just look at the flow numbers when comparing the 16v head over the 20v head. *The 20v combustion chamber is a better design than the 16v and can take alot more timing*. Thus making it a more efficent and allows you to make more power. This is why I picked to build a 1.8l small port 20v instead of a 1.8l 16v turbo. Even though the 16v out flowed the 20v on the intake side.

Scirocco20V can you explain this part somewhat?
p.s. Killa managed to get 507Whp out of his 16V.I am sure we can do alot more with a 20V.Everyone things a distributor is the downside...its not.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just look at twinscrew's motor. He's running 38 degrees of timing on boost IIRC. Thats insane, 16v's cant run that N/A. Could be a good reason why he made some much power on like 10psi from his crapped out G60.


----------



## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*

Thanks for all the info. Watched topic!


----------



## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*

So, I am under the assumption that this hybrid retains the 2.0 8v oil pump, or did I miss something. I read the entire thread. *Would the oil pump be up to the task of keeping 12 more lifters pumped up AFTER the change in the circumferance of the intermediate pulley.* Just asking. Applying this info to RD/HD (10.x:1)1.8 8v with 16v head and dizzy run in block for turbo application. I understand that I will have to monkey with cam pulley offsets, but all else should work, providing the oil pump is up to the task. I may or may not notch pistons for valve clearance.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

The 2l 8v and 2l 16v pumps are the same all except the driveshaft. The 8v has a notch in it so the dizzy can run it and the 16v is splined to fit into the drive gear.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_The 2l 8v and 2l 16v pumps are the same all except the driveshaft. The 8v has a notch in it so the dizzy can run it and the 16v is splined to fit into the drive gear.

But the Diameter of the 16V Gear is smaller than that of the 8V therefore the 16V Oil Pump spins faster http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
Doesnt matter because the 16V Gear and 20V Gear have the same diameter.


----------



## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Dont just look at the flow numbers when comparing the 16v head over the 20v head. The 20v combustion chamber is a better design than the 16v and can take alot more timing. Thus making it a more efficent and allows you to make more power. This is why I picked to build a 1.8l small port 20v instead of a 1.8l 16v turbo. Even though the 16v out flowed the 20v on the intake side.

I'm maybe thinking too hard about this.. but I had a thought *ouch*
With intake/exhaust ports flowing eaqual, would that help create a higher velocity of intake/exhaust gases compared to an intake out flowing the exhaust? Cuz the way I understand it, intake and exhaust velocity is just as important as actuall cfm. And for a turbo application, higher exhaust gas velocity is a good thing.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
But the Diameter of the 16V Gear is smaller than that of the 8V therefore the 16V Oil Pump spins faster http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
Doesnt matter because the 16V Gear and 20V Gear have the same diameter.


Just think, the 8v spins slower because of the larger IM gear. But it uses the same gearing inside the oil pump and it doesnt have any issues.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Action Jackson* »_
I'm maybe thinking too hard about this.. but I had a thought *ouch*
With intake/exhaust ports flowing eaqual, would that help create a higher velocity of intake/exhaust gases compared to an intake out flowing the exhaust? Cuz the way I understand it, intake and exhaust velocity is just as important as actuall cfm. And for a turbo application, higher exhaust gas velocity is a good thing.


Flowing more air on the intake side is important if you're building an all motor application. Gotta suck in as much as possible and the smaller exhaust ports increase velocity and scavenging effects. It works great for a N/A motor but for a turbo engine its not the greatest design. 
Since the turbo really kills the scavenging effect, I see no reason to have smaller ports on the exhaust side. Larger ports will help empty the cyl's out in the amount of time they have to do so.
Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Just think, the 8v spins slower because of the larger IM gear. But it uses the same gearing inside the oil pump and it doesnt have any issues. 

Yes I know there is no difference between any of the pumps but granted a 16V/20V should have a higher oil pressure than an 8V. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Found this Picture showing how the Distributor Is timed.
Once the Camshaft Gear is Lined and the Crankshaft Gear is lined then you line up the distributor shown in the picture below and hook up the timing belt.The marks on the 20V Gear on the IM Shaft should not help in the timing set up.


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

just to add to this post.....
PG block
PG crank
20V rods and pistons
ATW 20V head
MK3 accessory bracket and alternator
16V Intermidiate shaft and gear
16V crank pulley (timing belt)
AEB crank pulley (serpentine), w/5.5 mm spacer
Futrell VR6 waterpump pulley and correct belt
16V distributor block off plate (running stand-alone)
picture


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Just look at twinscrew's motor. He's running 38 degrees of timing on boost IIRC. Thats insane, 16v's cant run that N/A. Could be a good reason why he made some much power on like 10psi from his crapped out G60.

I've spoken to a few people who race 16v's and they've said 32 deg is the max timing of a 16v, after that it's not gonna benefit.
Am I missing something?


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Sure, plenty of pics. Let me find them.


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (OttawaG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *OttawaG60* »_
I've spoken to a few people who race 16v's and they've said 32 deg is the max timing of a 16v, after that it's not gonna benefit.
Am I missing something?


I think you might have read wrong. I agree, 32 degrees is usually max on a 16v. Im saying the 20v can run alot more timing even when there is boost present. Thats where some extra power comes from.


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

This is by far the most interesting thread I've read on vortex. I have a ton of stuff from VW's/Audis etc. including a complete 9A and AEB top end. 
I'm seriously considering this project, but the cost of pistons & rods seriously holds me back. Any way to do this without forged internals? I read that ceramic coating pistons is decent harm reduction. How much boost is safe?


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## TwinScrew20v (Dec 25, 2003)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_I'm seriously considering this project, but the cost of pistons & rods seriously holds me back. Any way to do this without forged internals? I read that ceramic coating pistons is decent harm reduction. How much boost is safe?
The reason for custom pistons is the bore. VW doesnt offer a 5v Piston for 82.5mm that the 9A requires...Or the ABA for that matter. The 1.8T guys have been known to run up into the 30s for boost on stock internals...But thats not neccesarily a reasonable comparison of what the motor is pushing for power. The AWW rods (that I have) are good for about 275ish whp. And 450ish whp on other rods.


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## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

If I used a 9A bottom end with all stock internals... what would the compression by, based on your calculations, and would you need valve notching in the pistons?


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

There would be virtually no change in compression (would raise to 11.0:1 - as the 20V head typically has a slightly smaller combustion chamber than the 16V). You would need a dished piston if you planned to run turbo.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Compression Ratio*


_Quote, originally posted by *Action Jackson* »_If I used a 9A bottom end with all stock internals... what would the compression by, based on your calculations, and would you need valve notching in the pistons?

*9A CR = 10.8:1*
*20V CR = 9.3-9.5:1* Depending on the year.
Seeing that the 20V head chamber has 3cc Less than the 16V chamber then the CR will raise using a 9A Bottom end like Rodney said.(*11.1:1*..assuming that there difference between 16V and 20V is *0.3CR*) or there abouts.
If you can get your hands on a 20V piston and compare them then you will see that you should notch it just for safety.


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## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

Hope these pics are helpful, they're of a piston from a N/A ADR coded 20v from a '96 Audi A4.
















They clearly show the notch required. These come flush with the top of the block at TDC so any engine running a 20v head withpistons doint the same is going to require a similar notch.


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## pqgti (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

good info!


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

does the 9a block have the captive holes for the syncro transferbox bracket?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *pqgti* »_good info!

Thanks...been trying to get this a sticky but thats not going to happen








Guess we need to have a Chip thread to make it a Sticky.If both John Betz and David Muden dont have an issue with this thread and its there forum,then I dont see why it shouldnt be made a sticky.Oh well...









_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_does the 9a block have the captive holes for the syncro transferbox bracket?

Take a picture of the captive holes for me or something like it.I have a 9A block infront me so I can Help you out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

Yes, it does. I've checked that. The 1.8 8v blocks are the ones without the bolt holes for the final drive case bracket.
*edit*
check out this link to pics on the vwsyncro.co.uk website. The guy created the final drive case bracket bolt hole. Obvisouly a syncro nut! He's got syncronitis!










_Modified by Action Jackson at 3:11 PM 12-28-2004_


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

Ive been doing a crossflow-g60 motor, although im not actually building it my mechanic is, im in there all the time and some of the things that need to be done according to the vortex people are a little off, maybe off is the wrong word, but i did something different and it seems to work better
for instance we used an MK4 2L gasket, decked the head a little and the mk4 gasket mates the two pieces perfectly except for a small problem with cyl1 where the gasket totally blocks off a coolant port so we tookan extremely sharp bit and just drilled thru it, and shaved the burr off. perfect! no gap in any oil drain line, nothing like that. yes the aba ports are oval shaped and the g60s are round but the aba gasket has round ports anyway so there is no need to be welding up anything or welding
as i said im in the process so as i get some interesting info i`ll add to this post http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by LagunaSecaBlueMK3 at 9:30 PM 12-28-2004_


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

The mk4 gasket has a holes in the back where oil drains are on the mk4 engine. The ABA gasket is the one to choose when doing the x-flow head on the g60 bottom.


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*

weird because ours lined up as if it were made for the convesion almost lol, the oil drains were excactly the same as G60, with just teenie overlap on some, as for the coolant like i said one hole wasnt there so we drilled it out








OBD1 head, G60 bottom end, mk4 gasket http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

oh btw we tried to put a mk3 aba gasket up to it, but the problem we found was that the port for that one oil drain was so big that the edge of the block was comming up mighty close and we werent sure if it would even seal up, i know people have done it with this gasket but in our case it didnt seem to work


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_The mk4 gasket has a holes in the back where oil drains are on the mk4 engine. *The ABA gasket is the one to choose when doing the x-flow head on the g60 bottom.* 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Depending on the type of Block you have.Some of the 3A blocks came with an extra lip like the 9A block on the small oil return hole to accomodate a Cross flow/16V HEad.I am not sure if the later model PG Blocks came with this but to fit a Crossflow Head on an old style block without the lip,you simple reduce the small oil return hole from an oval pattern to a circular pattern(same as block) and use an ABA head gasket for extra security.Or you could just use the ABA head gasket.
Up to you... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

when you say _reduce the small oil return hole from an oval pattern to a circular pattern_ do you mean get the head welded in that area? why not just weld the block to make the little ear?


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

Welding aluminum is much easier than welding cast iron.
It's not necessary though if you use the ABA gasket. Ive done several x-flow heads on early blocks and Ive still not seen one leak from that passage.


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*

as for the gains, the ABA head flows a touch under 160cfm stock, the G60 a touch under 130, so a 30cfm difference is like you just ported your head (averaged out, because as we know every head is a little different)

G60 cams fit in 2L heads so anyone that has already done this mod and is switching heads, its easy to get a little bump in cfm that way as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
please correct me if im wrong











_Modified by LagunaSecaBlueMK3 at 9:04 AM 12-30-2004_


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

You have to machine the 4th cam bearing area on the G60 cam to fit into a x-flow head. The G60 doesnt have a cam bearing journal there.


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (Scirocco20v)*

does that apply if you use TT FI cams as well? or do they make one set for every 8v?


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*

All aftermarket 8v cams are machined to fit any VW 8v head.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

PG flows the lowest (8mm valve stems).


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## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (TBT-PassatG60)*

well its an inefficient design, think about it, its called counterflow hehe the inefficiency is written into its name


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LagunaSecaBlueMK3* »_well its an inefficient design, think about it, its called counterflow hehe the inefficiency is written into its name









Like Webers,V8's and Rotary Engines, 8V's have there purpose.High Torque/HP @ Low RPM's (300WHp @ 6500+ RPM will make me more than happy).There is nothing wrong with counterflow as I am using an oval port 3A 8V Head in my Audi 80.
But lets not start an 8V war.....this is about moving on with 20V's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
p.s. Just for my sanity can someone get me the cfm # for a 3A Head?
Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

OK, so I'm a little slow at 20v stuff, But the AEB is the big 20v head. And you guys have listed the basic parts list for mounting the head to the block. My questions are in what would be the best intake manifold to use when mounting an AEB head on a ABA block, and is it possible to use my same wiring harness for the fuel injection(motronic) and TB And for a custom chip is that also required.
Just FYI I run a 96 aba w/T-3 turbo GIAC software [email protected]


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Not4show)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Not4show* »_OK, so I'm a little slow at 20v stuff, But the AEB is the big 20v head. And you guys have listed the basic parts list for mounting the head to the block. My questions are in what would be the best intake manifold to use when mounting an AEB head on a ABA block, and is it possible to use my same wiring harness for the fuel injection(motronic) and TB And for a custom chip is that also required.
Just FYI I run a 96 aba w/T-3 turbo GIAC software [email protected]

AEB Head = Audi TT Manifold in Transverse Setup or get a early 1.8T Intake from UK if you want to keep the TB on the left side of the engine bay.
As for the Fuel Injection,I dont see why not since you will just be adding a couple more valves.You may have to change the chip though.


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Some pics of my engine


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

Thanks, I gotta repaint the valve cover. The paint started to come off when I sprayed some brake cleaner on it.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*

You guys are starting to make me jealous








looks good Dustin.
Shawn


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Thanks, I gotta repaint the valve cover. The paint started to come off when I sprayed some brake cleaner on it. 

Spray Paint is a no no! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
*1.* 2 coats Etch Primer
*2.* 3 coats of Automotive Paint
*3.* 2 coats of Clear


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Spray Paint is a no no! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
*1.* 2 coats Etch Primer
*2.* 3 coats of Automotive Paint
*3.* 2 coats of Clear


I know but I wanted to try out this anodizing look paint. Im just going to have my other one powdercoated.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

I could spray it, I did automotive repair and painting for over 3 years.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_I could spray it, I did automotive repair and painting for over 3 years. 

What are you doing for a distributor Cap?


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## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

The stock 8v cap looks like itll fit no problem. I just have to get a new one.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_The stock 8v cap looks like itll fit no problem. I just have to get a new one. 

No clearance issues?


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

It looks like Ill have enough room. Ill throw one on and see if it fits.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_It looks like Ill have enough room. Ill throw one on and see if it fits. 

Please take a picture for me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif courtesy of *Scricco20V*. 










_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 2:21 PM 10-10-2005_


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

these are the parts i was going to use in the upcoming month's to build a aba/aeb
custom pistons 
aba rods 
obd1 aba block
1.CAM GEAR: aeb 
2. CRANK GEAR: 16v crank gear same as the aeb they both have the same part #
3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:16v or aeb same part #
4. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT : 2.0 16v with the oil pump from the same
5. TIMINT BELT: 92-98 Honda Prelude 2.2l VTEC 
Honda part # : 14400-P13-014
what tensioner to use part #'s ?


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_
these are the parts i was going to use in the upcoming month's to build a aba/aeb
custom pistons 
aba rods 
obd1 aba block
1.CAM GEAR: aeb 
2. CRANK GEAR: 16v crank gear same as the aeb they both have the same part #
3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:16v or aeb same part #
4. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT : 2.0 16v with the oil pump from the same
5. TIMINT BELT: 92-98 Honda Prelude 2.2l VTEC 
Honda part # : 14400-P13-014
what tensioner to use part #'s ?


On the intermediate shaft you need the transverse (golf/jetta) 20v cam gear. The AEB is the same as the 16v and will NOT line up. 
Use the 16v timing belt tensioner. 
You cant run a 8v dizzy with the 16v oil pump. You will need the aba unit. If you are not running a dizzy, then there is no need to use a cam gear on the intermediate shaft. You also dont need the Honda timing belt, the AEB 153tooth belt works. 


_Modified by Scirocco20v at 11:37 PM 1-8-2005_


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
On the intermediate shaft you need the transverse (golf/jetta) 20v cam gear. The AEB is the same as the 16v and will NOT line up. 
You cant run a 8v dizzy with the 16v oil pump. You will need the aba unit. If you are not running a dizzy then there is no need to use a cam gear on the intermediate shaft.
 
i wont be using the a dizzy the car already has a standalone instaled


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (PITGUY)*

Ok, then you need the 9a oil pump, drive gear, block off plate and 16v intermediate gear. Use the AEB timing belt also. No need to use another gear for the IM shaft.


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_SDS,MS or 034EFI? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

None of those i have Wolf ems

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Ok, then you need the 9a oil pump, drive gear, block off plate and 16v intermediate gear. Use the AEB timing belt also. No need to use another gear for the IM shaft.

i have all the part's for the oil pump already the AEB timing belt is too short on the ABA


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (PITGUY)*

The AEB belt doesnt fit? The ABF belt is also 153t IIRC.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_
i have all the part's for the oil pump already the AEB timing belt is too short on the ABA 

Thats where the Honda Timing Belt comes in.
For the Short Blocks you use an AEB timing belt,since the ABA is a slightly taller Block then you use the Honda Belt. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Thats where the Honda Timing Belt comes in.
For the Short Blocks you use an AEB timing belt,since the ABA is a slightly taller Block then you use the Honda Belt. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Putting the 20v head on the aba block is just like putting a 16v head on the aba block using the stock 16v IM shaft gear (not a cam gear). You use the ABF belt or the AEB belt.


----------



## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (LagunaSecaBlueMK3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LagunaSecaBlueMK3* »_as for the gains, the ABA head flows a touch under 160cfm stock, the G60 a touch under 130, so a 30cfm difference is like you just ported your head (averaged out, because as we know every head is a little different)

Can someone explain.. if you state that a particular head flows at x cfm, but, for instance the AEB head has an intake flow of about 215 and an exhaust flow of about 175 (getting that from the chart seen on page 3), so what is the over all cfm rating of that head? I would think an average of the two would not be a fair calculation.


----------



## LagunaSecaBlueMK3 (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

everyone measures differently, i think its add the two then divide by two but i could be wrong, they measure CFM rates at different lift, at different pressures, im not 100% on what the standards are, lets say for turbos i know that usually when you see a CFM figure (or at least the ones ive seen) its at 15psi. thats all i can add to that, i know what the rates are but excactly how they go about it is news to me


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Putting the 20v head on the aba block is just like putting a 16v head on the aba block using the stock 16v IM shaft gear (not a cam gear). You use the ABF belt or the AEB belt. 

but Isnt the ABF Belt Longer than the AEB Belt since both the 20V and 16V have the same # of teeth?


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

AEB and ABF have 153t 
Short deck 16v's have something like 149t


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_AEB and ABF have 153t 
Short deck 16v's have something like 149t









But AEB is a short deck block?
ABA is a tall deck block and so is ABF


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just to clear it up.
AEB = short deck but it has a idler pulley for the timing belt, therefore it needs a longer belt. Ill have a pic of this tomorrow to post.


----------



## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*

Another questions from me... 
Does any one have a picture they can post showing the 1.8t head and labling the proper placement of sensors. The 16v forum FAQ has this done for a 16v head. I just was wondering if the sensor placment on a 1.8t was the same or not...
linkee to 16v FAQ page for giggles.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Action Jackson)*

The sensor bolted to the intake cam near the cam gear is the camshaft positioning sensor. Then you have the coolant temp sensor in the water flange on the side of the head. Thats it.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Just to clear it up.
AEB = short deck but it has a idler pulley for the timing belt, therefore it needs a longer belt. Ill have a pic of this tomorrow to post. 

Thanks for clearing that up.I was wondering how a Tall Block 16V ABF and Short Block 20V AEB could have the same timing belt.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just to let you guys know. The stock 8v dizzy cap will work with 16v plug wires if you clearance the bottom of the head by 1/4". Plenty of material to remove if you want to give yourself some more clearance. 
Here are some pics
Before grinding








After grinding









Here's a pic of the AEB timing belt set up also.
See the idler pulley below the tensioner pulley.








Change those timing belts folks or this could be you
























And the culprit, had only 72k miles on it too.


----------



## gtg60 (Mar 30, 2001)

*Timing Belt info*

*Timing Belt Information*
_Teeth Length Part Number Application_
147...1176.....5183........1.8/2.0 16v
151...1208.....5399XS.....2.0 16v Late
152...1216.....5425XS....A4 1.8T
158...1264.....5432XS
162...1296.....5355XS
Part Numbers are Gates, all belts have a Pitch of 8mm and a width of 25mm. Length is in mm.
Contitech CT879 cross references as 5432XS
I listed the 5355XS just for info
Keith


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (gtg60)*

Well, they have ththe 16v and AEB belt lengths wrong. I counted 2 old belts, 1 16v and the other an AEB
16v 148 tooth
AEB 153 tooth
The late 16v I assume is the ABF
I have no clue what the 158 and 162 tooth belts are but they are going to be way to long of any application we can come up with.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Let me know if you got the pics I sent http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Let me know if you got the pics I sent http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Got them,Thanks
Jason(Twinscrew20V) cleared up something for me.

_Quote, originally posted by *TwinScrew20V* »_
*PG 8V* Head Chamber = *29cc* (_counterflow_)
*PL 16V* Head Chamber = *49cc*
*ABA 8V* Head Chamber = *30cc* (_crossflow_)
*AEB 20V* Head Chamber = *42cc*
*AEB* "Big Port" Head Intake flows *225 CFM's* as apposed to *PG* 16V Flowing only *175 CFM's*


----------



## gtg60 (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Well, they have ththe 16v and AEB belt lengths wrong. I counted 2 old belts, 1 16v and the other an AEB
16v 148 tooth
AEB 153 tooth
The late 16v I assume is the ABF
I have no clue what the 158 and 162 tooth belts are but they are going to be way to long of any application we can come up with.

I got the info from a Gates timing belt book dated 1999, it's European BTW.
I just rang the guys I get belts off and in the current catalogue they actually list 2 belts for the 1.8 and 1.8T engine codes (ADR, AEB, AJL, ANB, APT, APU, ARG, ARK, AVV)
There are TWO belts listed now, the 152 teeth one 5425XS and a 153 teeth one 5492XS.
I'll do some digging and amend the table in a day or two.
Keith


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (gtg60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtg60* »_
I got the info from a Gates timing belt book dated 1999, it's European BTW.
I just rang the guys I get belts off and in the current catalogue they actually list 2 belts for the 1.8 and 1.8T engine codes (ADR, AEB, AJL, ANB, APT, APU, ARG, ARK, AVV)
There are TWO belts listed now, the 152 teeth one 5425XS and a 153 teeth one 5492XS.
I'll do some digging and amend the table in a day or two.
Keith


Ahh...no wonder, you're in Europe. Over in the states, its probably different. The AEB is the only one with the long belt. All drive by wire motors have like a 150t belt.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Ahh...no wonder, you're in Europe. Over in the states, its probably different. The AEB is the only one with the long belt. All drive by wire motors have like a 150t belt. 

Because of the Internal water pump.Ok so let me get this correct.
For a Tall Block ABA/AEB 20V combination with an old style tensioner ,you still use the AEB Belt? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Because of the Internal water pump.Ok so let me get this correct.
For a Tall Block ABA/AEB 20V combination with an old style tensioner ,you still use the AEB Belt? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Yes, only if you use the stock 16v IM shaft gear (the small one)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Yes, only if you use the stock 16v IM shaft gear (the small one)

Ok because i was getting a little confused as to what you were referring to.
Prelude Belt = ABA + 20V + 20V Cam Gear on IM Shaft.
AEB Belt = PG + 20V + 20V Cam Gear on IM Shaft.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Ok because i was getting a little confused as to what you were referring to.
Prelude Belt = ABA + 20V + 20V Cam Gear on IM Shaft.
AEB Belt = PG + 20V + 20V Cam Gear on IM Shaft.


Prelude belt = aba + 20v + 20v gear on IM shaft
OR
PG + 20v + 20v gear on IM shaft
AEB belt = aba +16v head or 20v head + 16v IM shaft gear (stock small one)


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

there was a question earlier about the oil pump being able to supply enough oil, can the chain driven oil pumps be used in the pg block?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_there was a question earlier about the oil pump being able to supply enough oil, can the chain driven oil pumps be used in the pg block?

completely different block and different setup.
If your meaning the *AWP 1.8T engines* found in the VW Golf then they fall under the "new style block" with internal water pump and chain driven oil pump.
The Old Style Blocks found on the 1st generation of the 20V have an external Oil Pump and hole for a distributor. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

and has anyone heard of changing the exhaust cam of the AEB head to one from a normally aspirated one from an ADR, this was done on the white volkspeed rallye 20v g60


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_and has anyone heard of changing the exhaust cam of the AEB head to one from a normally aspirated one from an ADR, this was done on the white volkspeed rallye 20v g60

I was told by MortonB that the AEB and ADR cams were indentical


----------



## MrBond (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

ADR and AEB use identical camshafts...


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

sorry for the wait........


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
What Tensioner is that? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Yarrowsport sell one just like that


----------



## mrkrad (Nov 9, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

im sure with some creativity you can search the 16VG60 yahoo threads and find which tensioner that is. I was told what to use a while ago by a local but have since fried that synapse. It wasn't anything special, maybe $15 part new.
you guys ever use the metal honda fuel rail on your 16V efi projects?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (mrkrad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mrkrad* »_im sure with some creativity you can search the 16VG60 yahoo threads and find which tensioner that is. I was told what to use a while ago by a local but have since fried that synapse. It wasn't anything special, maybe $15 part new.
you guys ever use the metal honda fuel rail on your 16V efi projects?

I searched before clicking reply,My search came up empty,as you can see from my posts/threads I dont ask unless I dont know dude.
see what You can find if you dont mind http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
What Tensioner is that? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

It is a , now defunct, Adrenalin motorsport tensioner. You can get them through Yarrowsport though. http://www.yarrowsport.com


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

sure can, its just a MK3 accessory bracket though. Any particular angle of it you want???? Do you want pictures of it on or off the car???


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Here you go......









































_Modified by gruppe5 at 5:49 PM 1-24-2005_


_Modified by gruppe5 at 5:50 PM 1-24-2005_


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

just so I can be the 300th reply.........bump


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gruppe5* »_just so I can be the 300th reply.........bump









Gruppe,Do you think I can use the ABA tensioner to replace the G60 Charger Bracket?
The Idea I have is to use the G60 bracket that goes on the side of the head,The G60 Alternator and the ABA tensioner bracket.Only problem is noone can confirm this.


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*PG block + AEB head*

Does anyone know which head gasket is the best fit?
Thanks!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: PG block + AEB head (squeeze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_Does anyone know which head gasket is the best fit?


ABA Metal HeadGasket from Victor Reinz does the job nicely http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: PG block + AEB head (Wizard-of-OD)*

Got a part # on that?
Thanks!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*ABA Head Gasket*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_Got a part # on that?

ABA 4-Layer Metal Head Gasket
*037 103 383 N*


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Gruppe,Do you think I can use the ABA tensioner to replace the G60 Charger Bracket?
The Idea I have is to use the G60 bracket that goes on the side of the head,The G60 Alternator and the ABA tensioner bracket.Only problem is noone can confirm this.









Im gonna say no ,ill check the aba alt next to my G60 alt. when i get home


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (SSj4G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SSj4G60* »_
Im gonna say no ,ill check the aba alt next to my G60 alt. when i get home 

Thanks alot....Please reply in here.
(dont want the 8V info conflicting with the 20V info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )


----------



## coneracer (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

This is some great info. But how about putting this head on a JH block?
All of my internals are shotpeened, lightened, balanced, knife edged etc. with 10.8 to 1 flat top pistons. I am going to use a Electromotive xdi ignition (no distributor) with the baffled oil pan HD bearings and oil pump and a block girdle. I was going to run a Kent 340 degree cam with a P&P shaved head etc. etc. for about 14 to 1 comp.
But i would like to use a 20v head with Kent cams and twin carbs.
Will the sprockets line up?
Should i use dished/cut pistons?
How much can i shave the head to reach 14 to 1 comp?
This is a full race motor in the works.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (coneracer)*

The JH block is the same as all other 1.8l blocks except it doesnt have oil squirters. Flat top pistons give the motor around a 11:1 compression ratio. Just have to notch the piston for the center intake valve.


----------



## gruppe5 (May 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I don't know, my guess would be no


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (gruppe5)*


_Quote, originally posted by *coneracer* »_This is some great info. But how about putting this head on a JH block?

Yes,same concept applies.

_Quote, originally posted by *coneracer* »_
All of my internals are shotpeened, lightened, balanced, knife edged etc. with 10.8 to 1 flat top pistons. I am going to use a Electromotive xdi ignition (no distributor) with the baffled oil pan HD bearings and oil pump and a block girdle. I was going to run a Kent 340 degree cam with a P&P shaved head etc. etc. for about 14 to 1 comp.
But i would like to use a 20v head with Kent cams and twin carbs. 

I would use ITB's instead of Carbs.Some 50mm Units since your allready going standalone for the spark.
B4S bought a set of 45mm ITB's from me a month ago and now has his set up for sale.You should contact him for more information and for standalone I would go with 034EFi.com simply because I am biast to the system









_Quote, originally posted by *coneracer* »_
Will the sprockets line up? 










_Quote, originally posted by *coneracer* »_
Should i use dished/cut pistons?How much can i shave the head to reach 14 to 1 comp? 

No you shouldnt.Right now your CR is *10.8:1* with the 8V head.Placing the 20V head on there should lower your CR 1.5 points bring it down to *9.3:1*.In order to bring your CR up to 14:1 will require you to obtain *4.7* points from somewhere








I would not shave the head,I would buy another set of pistons to bring the CR up to 14:1.While I am @ it I would increase the bore to 83.5mm.

_Quote, originally posted by *coneracer* »_
This is a full race motor in the works.

Very Nice....keep us up to date 
p.s. If you need help with hosting pictures,please feel free to email me them:thumbup:


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## coneracer (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_Anyone wanting one of these manifolds to build a custom short runner intake manifold for the 20V engines? This is for the AEB "Big Port" head.


















IM sent


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

A few progress pics of my car. Hope you guys enjoy them.


----------



## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

the problem with your thread is that you have 1/2 page of info spread out over 10 pages. Half of your posts start with "quick recap" followed by the same info and pics that have been used in the thread numerous times.
My advice would be to take all the info, organize it offline, put the appropriate pics with it, and post it all as one post.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (TBT-PassatG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_the problem with your thread is that you have 1/2 page of info spread out over 10 pages. Half of your posts start with "quick recap" followed by the same info and pics that have been used in the thread numerous times.

I recap the top of each page with the same information(that would be 10 replies out of the 315+),that way 5 pages into the topic the same question isnt asked twice and it benefits everyone.Instead of reading Page 1-10,they can just jump straight to page 10.
I find this method very affective and up until this point,noone had complained about it.

_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-PassatG60* »_
My advice would be to take all the info, organize it offline, put the appropriate pics with it, and post it all as one post.

That was done in post *#2*,but thanks for the constructive critism...I guess this would be the last recap.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dubluva (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Now I've read though most of this post and didn't see this addressed:
1. I wana run a digi I setup on my 20v mkII swap. My block has the internal water pump. How do i make this work? (meaning the whole int. shaft thing)
2. If i lose the block and go ABA, do I have to change the pistons? 
3. Would stacking headgaskets lower c/r too low? And would i still have to replace the pistons. (as you can see i'm trying not to have to replace the pistons)
Hope i didn't miss this somewhere in the post, I'm just building mine, and trying to decide which way to go. 
Thanks


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Dubluva)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubluva* »_
1. I wana run a digi I setup on my 20v mkII swap. My block has the internal water pump. How do i make this work? (meaning the whole int. shaft thing)

You cant run a shaft with the late 1.8t blocks. You must use the AEB or swap everything to an early block

_Quote, originally posted by *Dubluva* »_
2. If i lose the block and go ABA, do I have to change the pistons? 


No but you would need the stock piston dished for the middle intake valve and this results in a low 8.x:1 compression ratio

_Quote, originally posted by *Dubluva* »_
3. Would stacking headgaskets lower c/r too low? And would i still have to replace the pistons. (as you can see i'm trying not to have to replace the pistons)

Just find an early 1.8l block ie. PL, PG, JH, RV, RD, etc... and use the 1.8t pistons in that block.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
Just find an early 1.8l block ie. PL, PG, JH, RV, RD, etc... and use the 1.8t pistons in that block.


he could as well use the entire 1.8T internals http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Not the crank, it has an extended nose.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*

FWIW the ABA top ring land would have very little meat if cut for relief of the center intake valve.


----------



## Dubluva (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

First of all thanks for the advice, however i would still like to know if i could keep the stock aba pistons, and the stacked head gaskets. I would rather do that than the whole 1.8 thing. I would use the entire 1.8t engine but i'm running the digi I and can't use that block. Any advice?
Thanks


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Dubluva)*

I gave you the advice already, please read.


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

I'll try and dig out another set of OBD1 pistons.. but the center relief is about 1-1.5mm below deck only leaving about .5-.8mm of ringland where the cut is made. The ABA bore is bigger so there might be slightly more then that, but it's cutting things close. The 9A pistons seemed to have a taller deck or lower top ring so those might work out a little better with the dish cut. Anyway high comp 20vs are whats in style anyway. Just run the 9As


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Dubluva)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dubluva* »_First of all thanks for the advice, however i would still like to know if i could keep the stock aba pistons, and the stacked head gaskets. I would rather do that than the whole 1.8 thing. I would use the entire 1.8t engine but i'm running the digi I and can't use that block. Any advice?
Thanks

what type of 1.8T engine is it?


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
what type of 1.8T engine is it?

Good point. It looks like the AEB and ATW blocks with the external pump can still use an ABA intermediate shaft if you want to run a distributor. More info soon.


----------



## Dubluva (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*

Scirocco...thanks for the advice you gave, but all my questions wern't answered. I need to check the engine code, but from what i do remember it is a 2002 and it has the internal water pump. It does not have provisions for an intermediate shaft. 
I want to check into using the 9A pistions. If I can go 2.0 without buying new pistons, then i'll just go that route rather than putting the 1.8t stuff in the older block. If I can't go 2.0, then i'll do the 1.8 thing. I'd just rather go bigger. This is why i'm asking about stacking the headgaskets. I'm wondering it the extra clearance will help the pistons clear the valves.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Dubluva)*

If you go with a 9A and stack gaskets youll have around a 9:1 -9.4:1 compression ratio and shouldnt have to notch the piston. Youll just have to bolt it together with some clay and measure the clearance.


----------



## Dubluva (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*

Thanks alot. I'll probably go that route and see what kinda results i get. I'd much prefer to use the aba block for the additional torque, but i'll try the 9a stuff and see what happens.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_If you go with a 9A and stack gaskets youll have around a 9:1 -9.4:1 compression ratio and shouldnt have to notch the piston. Youll just have to bolt it together with some clay and measure the clearance.

would that be the same for a AEG block


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_If you go with a 9A and stack gaskets youll have around a 9:1 -9.4:1 compression ratio and shouldnt have to notch the piston. Youll just have to bolt it together with some clay and measure the clearance.

Scirocco Using 2 Head ABA Head Gaskets will only lower your CR 0.5 --->0.7 CR.
9A = *10.8:1* CR
You could machine them like what Angular did to obtain a *9:1* CR
These look very Blingy


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

9A's are more like 10.2:1- 10.4:1 with a fiber gasket which is thinner than the ABA gasket.

No you cant do it with an AEG piston. Its just like the aba but with even weaker ringlands.


_Modified by Scirocco20v at 5:58 PM 2-23-2005_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_No you cant do it with an AEG piston. Its just like the aba but with even weaker ringlands.

_Modified by Scirocco20v at 5:58 PM 2-23-2005_

how much does the vavle open then


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_how much does the vavle open then









what exactly are you asking?


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

how much does valve 5 stick out 
how deep would the notch have to be in the pistons


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_how much does valve 5 stick out 
how deep would the notch have to be in the pistons

I have no Idea.It would be best to either:
1. Contact Rodney Huss for that information 
2. Get Play-Doh and get an estimation.
You Have a 20V Head?


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

no but i'm looking into swaping a 20v which is why i'm asking so i know how much to get the the notch in the pistons or if i can just double stck 1.8T gaskets
and one other question i have.. are the ABA rods and pistons forged and will they fit in a AEG


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
and one other question i have.. are the ABA rods and pistons forged and will they fit in a AEG

ABA rods and Pistons are not forged and the ABA Rod + Piston will not work with an AEG bottom end.As for the piston notching,Ill just wait till I get the 20V head to work that one out.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

hmm true
and whats the better head for a AEG
isn't the AEB an external waterpump and won't it be harder to do


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*

I answered all of these questions for you already. All 20v heads are the same externally, same bolt patterns, same oil and coolant passages. 

You can cut a relief in the 2l piston but itll be worse than the ABA piston as the AEG/AVH pistons have less of a ringland than ABA's. 
OBD1 ABA engines came with forged rods, OBD2's came with cast rods. 
ABA rods = 159mm
AEG/AVH rods =141mm
There are the answers posted so you cant forget them.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*

lol thanks man 
so i'll just get all forged internals with 8.5 compression pistons and put a huge turbo then







lol


----------



## sciroccoR (Dec 23, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*

maybe this is outta place but why are you guys striving for so much CR? the bump you get in hp from CR is not so great. drivabilities better, sure. but, i am fairly sure that the older turbo cars like the urquattro and porsche 930, 911turbo ran more like 8.2:1 (matter of fact, i seem to recall one of 'em ran 7.8:1) and they were pretty easy to drive. i'm using the mahles from the audi quattro sport in my car with a CR of around 8.2:1 and it works OK.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (sciroccoR)*

the f40 is 7.3 : 1
but compression = better low end power


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (sciroccoR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sciroccoR* »_i'm using the mahles from the audi quattro sport in my car with a CR of around 8.2:1 and it works OK.

Peter...that would be the MC1 Pistons.Did you use the "ox" conrods as well?


----------



## sciroccoR (Dec 23, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Peter...that would be the MC1 Pistons.Did you use the "ox" conrods as well?

no. stock g60 rods balanced is all. and the pistons had to have the oil squirter reliefs machined in them.


----------



## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Issam, what's the rod ratio and displacement with that combination? Good work, btw. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scott F. Williams)*

of the MC forged bottom end?
136mm/86.4mm = 1.574
not bad at all








Come on...where are the updates guys!


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ 
Come on...where are the updates guys!









in the summer i'll have some for you


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## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

yeah man with a big turbo








i'll have money in the summer right now i'm poor cuz of school


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_yeah man with a big turbo









Have you started with the collection of parts?


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

i'm in the market for the stuff now 
but i'm low on money


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*

i have another question to ask
when i swap my heads would i be able to swap ECUs and run a 1.8T ECU


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
when i swap my heads would i be able to swap ECUs and run a 1.8T ECU

I believe you will need to chip tune it as you are increasing displacement.
More displacement = more air to combust = more fuel to combust that extra air = more $$$ = more problems


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

well thats an obvious i'm gonna get it reprogrammed by upsolute
thats liek 500 for the reprogram with a big turbo


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_well thats an obvious i'm gonna get it reprogrammed by upsolute
thats liek 500 for the reprogram with a big turbo

All this is going in the MK4?Or your building an AEG/AEB combination for another frame?


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

mk4


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*

Nice picture I was sent by a vortexer courtesy of Dub-Nation http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_mk4

Ok...I am not sure if you can get a chip for that.It all depends what you want though.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Ok...I am not sure if you can get a chip for that.It all depends what you want though.

not even a standalone which is prob what i'll do
but ok I beam or H beam forged piston rods


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_not even a standalone which is prob what i'll do

Well everyone knows I am going to recommend 034EFi Stage Ic









_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
but ok I beam or H beam forged piston rods

Didnt know there was a difference








H Beam?


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## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Didnt know there was a difference








H Beam?

i have no idea either
apparently I beams are better for high revving cars and H beams are stronger


Wizard-of-OD said:


> Well everyone knows I am going to recommend 034EFi Stage Ic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_what kinda tuning is it?









Its a Standalone system,controls your fuel and ignition,you tell it what to do.
I really dont want to elaborate about 034EFi in this topic since I was focusing mainly on distributor setups.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

oh then what kind would i need
and by tuning i ment is it similar to honda fuel and ignition maps


_Modified by GTi Leo at 2:24 AM 3-8-2005_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_oh then what kind would i need
and by tuning i ment is it similar to honda fuel and ignition maps

No,Honda has there own maps for there own engines,each map is different depending on engine and user.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

link for everyone
this guy makes forges pistons for a 20V 2.0 project
http://www.Porttuning.com


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_link for everyone
this guy makes forges pistons for a 20V 2.0 project
http://www.Porttuning.com

Rodney Huss also provides JE units but he is very hard guy to get a hold of. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

My 16v forged pistons; 8.7:1 CR. Will they clear the valves or do I need to cut an "eyebrow" in them?


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*

you only need one relife notch i believe but i could be wrong


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_My 16v forged pistons; 8.7:1 CR. Will they clear the valves or do I need to cut an "eyebrow" in them?

I thought you were building an 8V ?
Yes you should relief the piston for the #5 Valve if you use a 20V Head.


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I thought you were building an 8V ?


Dude, I came across a 2003 20v engine (minus crank breather, oil filter flange & coil packs) for a cheap price and I just had to get it. I've had the 16v pistons for a while, and the 8v project was my very first endeavor, so I come back to it every so often.
I'm real good at half-ass starting things, but I'm terrible at finishing them.








So....everything's on hold right now until I figure out my best combination:
a. forged 2.0L 20v turbo
b. forged 2.0L 16v turbo
c. forged 1.8 8v turbo
d. 20v hybrid with 1.8t internals.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*

go d with forged 2.0 crank and rods







it'll fit and make it a 1.9L


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_a. forged 2.0L 20v turbo

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
At least for a write up for the 1.8 8V Turbo.I mean you chopped the manifold and all and the MC pistons would be useless in your 20V engine.


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
At least for a write up for the 1.8 8V Turbo.I mean you chopped the manifold and all and the MC pistons would be useless in your 20V engine.

Yeah. I'm still going to put that engine together in my PL block. It's nearly done (picking up a 1.7L crank this Saturday) and I'm sure a series of pictures, trials & tribulations would benefit someone. ---weren't you working on a write-up on this?
2.0 20v is what I want now, but I want to run a distributor off the head instead of the I-shaft. I would prefer to keep the oil pump going at its proper speed, even if you can get away with it otherwise.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_
Yeah. I'm still going to put that engine together in my PL block. It's nearly done (picking up a 1.7L crank this Saturday) and I'm sure a series of pictures, trials & tribulations would benefit someone. ---weren't you working on a write-up on this?

I was working on a write-up but it turned out that I need to buy 1.7 Connecting Rod bearings and by the time the dealer got them i was allready half way across the world.Maybe this summer....
If you want me to do the write up using your pictures I will be more than happy.

_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_
2.0 20v is what I want now, but I want to run a distributor off the head instead of the I-shaft. I would prefer to keep the oil pump going at its proper speed, even if you can get away with it otherwise. 









The Oil Pump will spin @ the same rate if the distributor was placed in the head or the block.
My advice is to keep that distributor in the block if your going 20V.If your going 16V,then utilise the big hole in the head.Twinscrew20V has not reported any oil issues with his setup and I must admit the 16V Plug wires Belong on a Block mounted distributor








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

what code is the engine that the 1.7 crank comes from and were they available in europe?


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

*Sorry for off topic thread jack*

_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_what code is the engine that the 1.7 crank comes from and were they available in europe?

I believe *all* engines with EN codes have cranks that accommodate the audi con rods. I've heard from many independant sources that the 1.7 is forged, but I believe that the 1.6 and 1.5 _may _also be too.
*anyhow, back to 20v stuff*
I just looked at the 30v V6 specs and it looks like the pistons are 82.5 mm bore. there's a V6 30v at my local wrecker selling as a core engine that I might strip for sensors & whatever else I can get my hands on. (I can't seem to find any definitive info on the wrist pins they use, but I'll keep looking).
I can't imagine the pistons are forged but if they're notched for a 5 valve chamber it's better than nothing.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_
I just looked at the 30v V6 specs and it looks like the pistons are 82.5 mm bore. there's a V6 30v at my local wrecker selling as a core engine that I might strip for sensors & whatever else I can get my hands on. (I can't seem to find any definitive info on the wrist pins they use, but I'll keep looking).
I can't imagine the pistons are forged but if they're notched for a 5 valve chamber it's better than nothing.

Your going to destroy a perfectly nice 30V V6 just for pistons?







Does your wrecker yard sell engines cheap?


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Your going to destroy a perfectly nice 30V V6 just for pistons?







Does your wrecker yard sell engines cheap?

The enginbe is pretty banged up. the block & heads are together, bu the throttle is gonzo, the oil pan is smashed up, the fuel rail & bunch of other stuff I can't possibly identify are gone. It is considered a core block. I was quoted today $150 CDN.
They have a complete V8 there, too. cut harness (ouch!) but everything else is there. I was loosely quoted $300 for that too, including whatever else I can find in the car that's engine related.
good to have friends in those places.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

this just in 
no more 20v head swap 
i'm going to save up and sell my MK4 and then get a MK5 GTI 2.0T


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_this just in 
no more 20v head swap 
i'm going to save up and sell my MK4 and then get a MK5 GTI 2.0T

Congrats.....guess Dustin and myself dont have to guide you anymore.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Congrats.....guess Dustin and myself dont have to guide you anymore.









lol i know now its easy for you 
i know i can be annoying which i'm sorry about


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_lol i know now its easy for you 
i know i can be annoying which i'm sorry about

np,at least you learnt.Too bad most of us will have the same spec engine in a body thats half the weight.
Power : Weight Ratio is going to OWN you


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
np,at least you learnt.Too bad most of us will have the same spec engine in a body thats half the weight.
Power : Weight Ratio is going to OWN you









apparently the mk5s are lighter 
but the power band will smoke you








max torque is at 1800 to 5000







2.0 power baby


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Part #'s*

I found these #'s, and was hoping someone here could verify them for me.
16V Cam timing pulley - 027 109 111H
16V Crank timing pulley - 027 105 236B
AEB Head Bolt - 058 103 385B
Head Bolt Washer - 056 103 377
ABA Head Gasket - 037 103 383N


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (86JettaWolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86JettaWolfsburg* »_I found these #'s, and was hoping someone here could verify them for me.
16V Cam timing pulley - 027 109 111H
16V Crank timing pulley - 027 105 236B
AEB Head Bolt - 058 103 385B
Head Bolt Washer - 056 103 377
ABA Head Gasket - 037 103 383N

I know the ABA HG is the correct part #.Are you building a hybrid?


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Part #'s (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Are you building a hybrid?

Yes, AEB head + ABA Block with 83.5mm JE Pistons.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (86JettaWolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86JettaWolfsburg* »_Yes, AEB head + ABA Block with 83.5mm JE Pistons.

It would be nice if you did a complete build and took lots of pictures http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
if you need help with the image hosting/write up them give me a buzz


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## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Part #'s (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
It would be nice if you did a complete build and took lots of pictures http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


I think I'll do that, it may help keep me motivated.
I'll let you know about the image hosting, I may have it handled.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (86JettaWolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86JettaWolfsburg* »_I think I'll do that, it may help keep me motivated.
I'll let you know about the image hosting, I may have it handled.

no problems.Really excited that 2 guys(maybe 3 now) actually used this information to build Hybrids 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (Wizard-of-OD)*

is the maybe 3 me


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Part #'s (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_is the maybe 3 me










3 is me, It'll all be right here










_Modified by 86JettaWolfsburg at 11:11 PM 3-30-2005_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (Wizard-of-OD)*

dammit


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_dammit










_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
i'm going to save up and sell my MK4 and then get a MK5 GTI 2.0T


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (Wizard-of-OD)*

lol i am its the same thing just cheaper cuz i won't have to do the work
but i still learned how to do it







so if my cousin buys my car then we can still do it


----------



## efterZ (Oct 18, 2004)

nice thread!!


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## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Part #'s*

Here is a list of part numbers I have come up with.
058 103 385BMY - AEB Cylinder Head Bolts (10)
048 103 383B - Cylinder Head Gasket 2.0 16V (83.5mm Cylinders)
037 103 383N - Cylinder Head Gasket 2.0 ABA (Stock Cylinders)
027 998 031BR - Ignition Wire Set 16V
027 105 263B - Crankshaft Timing Gear 16/20V
027 109 111H - Camshaft Timing Gear 16/20V
027 109 243 - Timing Belt Tensioner Pulley 16/20V


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Part #'s (86JettaWolfsburg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *86JettaWolfsburg* »_
027 109 111H - Camshaft Timing Gear 16/20V



That is for the AEB 20v cam gear the transverse gear is 06B 109 111. You will need to use the transverse gear on a modded 8v IM shaft.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (sciroccoR)*

basically, i just need to know how to setup the belts, i can care less if i have a distributor... the stock dist. can drive the oil pump, i have a block off plate, so i just need the 9a int. shaft right? 

on an aba block



_Modified by the4ork at 4:17 AM 4-15-2005_


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Whats the difference between the AEB and AWP Cam Gear









Back spacing is different, just trust me on this one. 

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_basically, i just need to know how to setup the belts, i can care less if i have a distributor... the stock dist. can drive the oil pump, i have a block off plate, so i just need the 9a int. shaft right? 

on an aba block
_Modified by the4ork at 4:17 AM 4-15-2005_

9a intermediate shaft, oil pump, oil pump drive gear and block off plate. Use the AEB 153 tooth timing belt w/ 16v timing belt tensioner. 16v or AEB cam pulley on the cams.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*

which 1.8t head do i want to go with? AEB? i know nothing about the 1.8t head codes


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_which 1.8t head do i want to go with? AEB? i know nothing about the 1.8t head codes

AEB or AGU
Audi A4/VW Passat DBC. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*

ok so a parts list for me:
1.8t head, whicever that may be... 
9a int. shaft and oil pump
i can check off the block off plate (got it)
16v tensioner
153tooth 1.8t timing belt
cam pulley, i want to go adjustable, so what to get?

im still unsure if i need to do anything about the crank gear/serp setup. but the swap sounds pretty straight foward, i think im going to do this, im going to need more power, 8v + k26/to4e or 20v + k26/to43


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*

1. 1.8T AEB Head + Valve cover
2. 16V Crank Gear
3. 16V IM Shaft Gear
4. 16V Camshaft pulley.I believe you may have to modify the 20V Camshaft slightly to get an Adjustable pulley from Autotech to work on it.If not then cool....also performance cafe sells an adjustable for the 20V's.
5. 9A IM Shaft
6. 9A Oil Pump + Oil Pump Gear
7. 9A Block off plate
Thats all I can think of for now...whats wrong with the 8V?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

nothings wrong with it, im gong to mob the 8v around until i have all the parts to do a 20v, its just that i got a bonus from work, paid of my creadit card, and have some $ left over so im going to put a eurospec 02a upgrade on the card, and use whats left over for the 20v swap.
sure i can get some new tail lights, paint...ect. but i just cant justify spending any money on the car if it doesnt make it go faster...


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*

btw, what would the CR be on stock aba pistons? and would they need a valve relief... i want to go forged, so what am i looking at ordering.
i also cant decide what CR i want to run... how much boost can a k26/to4e 57trim stage3 .60AR put out? i guess that would be the determining factor. prabably 8:1?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_btw, what would the CR be on stock aba pistons? and would they need a valve relief... i want to go forged, so what am i looking at ordering.
i also cant decide what CR i want to run... how much boost can a k26/to4e 57trim stage3 .60AR put out? i guess that would be the determining factor. prabably 8:1?

Stock ABA is 10:1
placing a 20V head on that block is going to lower the CR to about 8.5:1.
You have 034EFi now,you dont *need* to upgrade your pistons.The money would be better spent on upgrading other components.
ARP head studs ,etc


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

i got the headstuds, but their for the aba though... can i use em? 
if i want to run as much psi as that turbo can put out efficiently.. i should prabably go with some forged pistons...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i got the headstuds, but their for the aba though... can i use em? 
if i want to run as much psi as that turbo can put out efficiently.. i should prabably go with some forged pistons...

No,you have to use OEM 1.8T Head Belts.ARP does not make an ARP set as yet for the 20V engine.
My advice is to find another ABA block and start fresh or get a smaller turbo.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

i dont see why you coulnt use them though... i mean the mounting holes are in the right positions, the only factor would be length?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
No,you have to use OEM 1.8T Head Belts.ARP does not make an ARP set as yet for the 20V engine.
My advice is to find another ABA block and start fresh or get a smaller turbo.









i kind will be starting fresh, im going to gather all the parts to do the swap, and then get it done in a few days. just gotta make sure i have everything i need


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i kind will be starting fresh, im going to gather all the parts to do the swap, and then get it done in a few days. just gotta make sure i have everything i need

Get your car running on the 8V and then collect the 20V parts aside.When your ready,pull out the 8V Turbo and drop the 20V Turbo in.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

thats what im doing








cept with the same aba block


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_thats what im doing








cept with the same aba block

no dont do that...get another ABA block. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

i will if i can find one local, im going to need one for my cabby anyways


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i will if i can find one local, im going to need one for my cabby anyways

put the 8V turbo in the cabby and 20V Turbo in the Golf http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i dont see why you coulnt use them though... i mean the mounting holes are in the right positions, the only factor would be length?

The size of the bolt head is more a factor. On my AEB they have to pass through some pretty small holes in support flanges before they get to the bolting surface of the head.


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i dont see why you coulnt use them though... i mean the mounting holes are in the right positions, the only factor would be length?


For the obvious reason that its a DIFFERENT head design. Could that be the reason?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*

well i was just going to say if they all line up in the correct spots, could the mounting holes be borred out for the arp studs to fit, or would you run into an oil/coolant galley?
and now for the hard part, finding an aeb head that ISNT $800


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_well i was just going to say if they all line up in the correct spots, could the mounting holes be borred out for the arp studs to fit, or would you run into an oil/coolant galley?

Just use an OEM set,Its cheap and its proven to work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
and now for the hard part, finding an aeb head that ISNT $800

Good luck,AEB heads are becoming very rear these days...
Tuners are just buying them up making hunting for guys like us very hard.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

are there any other heads that will work?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_are there any other heads that will work?

All 20V heads will work but only the VW Passat/Audi A4 got the big port heads (Only applies to NA)


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

what are some different codes to search for?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_what are some different codes to search for?

AEB/AGU - Only Big Ports I know of that came to NA.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

what about non big ports?


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

ADR is the normally aspirated version of the AEB, the AGU is from a transverse golf or audi a3


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: (G'D60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Ok because i was getting a little confused as to what you were referring to.
Prelude Belt = ABA + 20V + 20V Cam Gear on IM Shaft.
AEB Belt = PG + 20V + 20V Cam Gear on IM Shaft.


Prelude Belt = ABA + 20V + 20V Cam Gear on IM Shaft. the belt is short unless you use the stock 16v IM shaft gear and the old style AEB tensioner which isn't safe


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_ could the mounting holes be bored out for the arp studs to fit, or would you run into an oil/coolant galley?


you can try it but theres no room between the lifter bores for a bigger nut Raceware makes a stud for the AEB motor and Eurospec offers a stronger bolt


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_old style AEB tensioner which isn't safe

Define old style? 8V Old Style or the Hydraulic piston old style?


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Define old style? 8V Old Style or the Hydraulic piston old style?

The one that came on the early 1.8T the same one that Scirocco20v has in the pic bellow

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_The one that came on the early 1.8T the same one that Scirocco20v has in the pic bellow

Ye ...absolute garbage.I had mine go on me after 50,000 Km's and the plastic melted all onto the timing belt








Then I decided time to go back old school.Added the 8V Tensioner bolt and old style tensioner.Has been proven to work for years http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: blue (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_
The one that came on the early 1.8T the same one that Scirocco20v has in the pic bellow


That tensioner lost it and caused 4 bent intake valves and bent all the exhaust valves along with ruining the pistons. I convert all of them to the early 16v tensioner and run a 16v timing belt on the AEB's.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: blue (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_That tensioner lost it and caused 4 bent intake valves and bent all the exhaust valves along with ruining the pistons. I convert all of them to the early 16v tensioner and run a 16v timing belt on the AEB's. 

I got out lucky.I have a European Audi 80 B4 and it pretty much has all the tensioner junk your would find in a US A4.Thank god the engine was non-interference. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*

must find 9a and aba blocks!....


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_must find 9a and aba blocks!....

Just ABA... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

dont i need 9a int. shaft?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*

going to the yard today


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*

are these any good? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_dont i need 9a int. shaft?

ABA Block....ABA Shaft
9A Block....9A shaft

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_are these any good? 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...=WDVW 

Stick with the 8V timing belt tensioner.Proven to work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

but isnt the 8v tensioner narrower than a 16v tensioner pulley?
do you mean 16v?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_but isnt the 8v tensioner narrower than a 16v tensioner pulley?
do you mean 16v?

Yes,my apologies....16V Tensioner.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i'll get that new, but i was comparing 2 at the junkyard, much wider (8v vs. 16v)


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Scirocco20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wizard_of_od* »_ he could as well use the entire 1.8T internals http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_Not the crank, it has an extended nose. 
 
so can i or can i not use the aeb crank in the aba? or is it just the later 1.8t blocks you cant do this with.


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
so can i or can i not use the aeb crank in the aba? 

you can use the AEB in the ABA but you will need some custom rods and pistons not worth it in my opinion.
20/20 ABA AEB with coil packs
9A 16V-cam gear or AEB same part #
9A 16V-intermediate shaft
9A 16V- intermediate gear or AEB same part #
9A 16V-crank timing gear or AEB crank gear same part #
9A 16V- oil pump
9A 16V-oil drive gear,
9A 16V-distributor block off gear
Timing beltrelude Timing Belt is short unless you make a smaller adjuster


----------



## Scirocco20v (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (PITGUY)*

The Prelude belt is not too short when building an ABA/20v using the 9A IM shaft and gear. The combo can use a ABF (euro mk3 16v) or AEB 153 tooth timing belt since its the same combo as if you dropped a 16v head on an aba block.

The Prelude belt does fit if you use the 20v cam gear on the IM shaft and the ABA block. When I have time Ill throw mine together for some pics.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_
you can use the AEB in the ABA but you will need some custom rods and pistons not worth it in my opinion.

He will only need custom pistons which he is doing regardless.83.5mm pistons that have a lower wrist pin.
He doesnt need the 9A stuff since he is getting a full AEB 1.8T engine.
AEB Head
AEB Crankshaft
AEB Cam Gear
AEB Oil Pump
AEB Oil Pump Gear
ABA IM Shaft modded to fit AEB Cam Gear
ABA Block
For the timing belt an AEB one will work fine since he is using the old style tensioner.

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
The Prelude belt does fit if you use the 20v cam gear on the IM shaft and the ABA block. When I have time Ill throw mine together for some pics. 

Email me the pictures and Ill host them for you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
He will only need custom pistons which he is doing regardless.83.5mm pistons that have a lower wrist pin.
He doesnt need the 9A stuff since he is getting a full AEB 1.8T engine.
AEB Head
AEB Crankshaft
AEB Cam Gear
AEB Oil Pump
AEB Oil Pump Gear
ABA IM Shaft modded to fit AEB Cam Gear
ABA Block


hes going to have to make up for the 6.4 mm diference in the stroke with a piston alone?
how is the aba intermediate shaft going to drive the AEB oil pump ?

_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_
The Prelude belt does fit if you use the 20v cam gear on the IM shaft and the ABA block. When I have time Ill throw mine together for some pics. 

it wont work turbodub tried that already 
i was going to get pics off the prelude belt on a 20/20 but the owner wont let me take any


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_hes going to have to make up for the 6.4 mm diference in the stroke with a piston alone?

Connecting rods = ABA Forged units = 159mm
Pistons = JE Forged units with a wrist pin that sits 3.2mm lower than a usual ABA piston.

_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_
how is the aba intermediate shaft going to drive the AEB oil pump ?

With an AEB Oil Pump and Oil pump gear (same one found in the 9A engine).AEB = old style engine
I just realised i made an error earlier.Since he is not powering a Distributor then he can use the entire AEB 1.8T mechanism.
AEB IM Shaft
AEB Oil Pump Gear
AEB Oil Pump
AEB Block off plate.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (PITGUY)*

20/20 ABA AEB with coil packs
9A 16V-cam gear or AEB same part # *got it, aeb*
9A 16V-intermediate shaft 
9A 16V- intermediate gear or AEB same part # *got it, aeb*
9A 16V-crank timing gear or AEB crank gear same part # *got it, aeb*
9A 16V- oil pump
9A 16V-oil drive gear, 
9A 16V-distributor block off gear *got it*


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

basically the aeb goes into my aba, with new rods/pistons








everything but the water pump i supose. hey wiz, i can use the aeb tensioner right, since its old style, woulnt it be the same as the 16v?


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

which is a better block to use if i was to build a 20v hybrid engine, i have an AEB head and i have a PG block but i can also get my hands on a 9A from a passat or a 2E (like tall block ABA) from a mk3 gti. it would be fitted in my golf rallye with a lysholm charger, i already have a rallye 20v manifold i bought from volkspeed a few years ago so i assume one of the shorter blocks would be more suitable?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_which is a better block to use if i was to build a 20v hybrid engine, i have an AEB head and i have a PG block but i can also get my hands on a 9A from a passat or a 2E (like tall block ABA) from a mk3 gti. it would be fitted in my golf rallye with a lysholm charger, i already have a rallye 20v manifold i bought from volkspeed a few years ago so i assume one of the shorter blocks would be more suitable? 

I would use the AEB head and the 2E Block (2E=ABK/ABT : Tall block counter flow







).I dont think 16mm is going to affect the clearance of Volkspeed's manifold.Are you going to be staying with the Digi-1 Fuel Injection system?


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

yes i would keep the digi-1, i have the volkspeed pulley and timing belt kit for the AEB engine too but there is a bent conrod in my AEB bottom end.
why do you recomend the tallblock over the shorter blocks? and what compression ratio would you recomend?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_yes i would keep the digi-1, i have the volkspeed pulley and timing belt kit for the AEB engine too but there is a bent conrod in my AEB bottom end.

Do you mind taking pictures of your Volkspeed pieces (infact pictures of everything) and hosting them?

_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_
why do you recomend the tallblock over the shorter blocks? and what compression ratio would you recomend?

I am just a huge fan of the 159mm rods vs 144mm.For the CR i would recommend between 9:1 and 9.5:1.It all depends what you the user wants.How much PSi is your SC rated @?


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Stock ABA is 10:1
placing a 20V head on that block is going to lower the CR to about 8.5:1.
You have 034EFi now,you dont *need* to upgrade your pistons.The money would be better spent on upgrading other components.
ARP head studs ,etc

I have read you HAVE to cut notches in the ABA pistons for the middle valve.
so when you say you dont need to upgrade your pistons, you mean you dont need new ones, but you still need them notched?
I also read in an IM you sent to me that you dont really have to notch the pistons.

_Quote »_Your only notching the piston for the #5 valve just to be safe and thats if your using the stock pistons

i also read that the info posted for the g60 motor is the same for ALL VW 8v motors. well, it seems you dont have to notch pg pistons, but you do have to notch aba pistons????
whats the bottom line?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (speed51133!)*

Ricky (the4ork) has stock 1.8T pistons @ his disposal.I have seen some guys use flat top pistons with the 20V head.The notch is just for safety IIRC.Race101 used Flat top Ross Pistons in there NA 20V motor.









The Bottom Line is VW 16V/20V Motors come with a notch on there pistons so follow the leader....thats the best advice I can give.
Edit: My Apologies everyone,I had to remove the pictures because the owner would not give me permission to post them)



_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 7:29 AM 4-25-2005_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

do you know exactly how much of the 5th valve pops out


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

nate used ross pistons, not JE, and he also had notches cut for more than one valveper cyl....


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (speed51133!)*

yeah i'll have aeb pistons and rods that i wont need after i get my motor on memorial day weekend. and then give me a day or so to get them out


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (speed51133!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speed51133!* »_nate used ross pistons, not JE, and he also had notches cut for more than one valveper cyl....

ok
The picture shows there flat and others have used stock ABA pistons with there swap.


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

he cut the notches at a later time due to valves hitting.
i dont know if it ran or not, just repeating what he typed way back when he built it.
its all on the hardcore forum in bits and pieces...


_Modified by speed51133! at 6:15 AM 4-25-2005_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (speed51133!)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speed51133!* »_
its all on the hardcore forum in bits and pieces...

Well see if you can gather all the information together and post it in the thread.That way everyone can benefit from the information. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

it will be 3 months before i return from australia and then id be more than happy to put up some pics of everything.
i dont know what psi the charger is rated as, i asume it has the standard size pulley that comes in the bbm g60 screw compresser kit.


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

i bought the kit 2 or 3 years ago with a 20v rallye exhaust manifold, volkspeed have shut up shop now.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_i bought the kit 2 or 3 years ago with a 20v rallye exhaust manifold, volkspeed have shut up shop now.

Ye,saw there final work with the Works 20V G60.








Too bad because they do some awesome machine work.


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hit 10psi in my car today. A/F ratio is still 11:1-11.3 just like at 6 or 8 psi. Not too bad for a chip burned for a lysholm'd 20v. My biggest issue is that it runs stupid rich in vac. 12's mostly. Gotta get a custom burn as soon as I get everything else on the car squared away.


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

where did you get that chip done? how much was it?


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

SNS Tuning. Its a chip for twinscrews engine and not a perfect tune but Im getting a custom tune as soon as my brakes are working properly.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yukon Jack* »_SNS Tuning. Its a chip for twinscrews engine and not a perfect tune but Im getting a custom tune as soon as my brakes are working properly.

is lugnuts burning chips for Digi-1?


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
is lugnuts burning chips for Digi-1?


Its not Kevin. Im not giving names since I dont know how public they want to get with the info.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

so i'm thinking after i get my mk5 i want to buy a G60 motor and do this little project
now what i don't know is if the ABA is a G60 or if the PG is the G60 and what would be a better motor to do the swap on


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_so i'm thinking after i get my mk5 i want to buy a G60 motor and do this little project
now what i don't know is if the ABA is a G60 or if the PG is the G60 and what would be a better motor to do the swap on

PG = G60
ABA = Tall Black 2.0 engine with 159mm rods.I would go with the ABA.Big fan of the tall blocks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

hmm how much boost will it be able to take and how much power can the bottom end handle
and what generation dubs are they from


_Modified by GTi Leo at 3:32 AM 5-8-2005_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_hmm how much boost will it be able to take and how much power can the bottom end handle
and what generation dubs are they from

How much boost they can handle is dependant on how good your tuning is.Even forged pistons can be damaged if your tuning is poor.That being said Paul (killa) made 507Whp on a BONE STOCK ABA bottom end.VW Bottom end's are known to be pretty damn strong.
The engine your looking for is a OBD1 2.0E from a MK3 Golf.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

alright thanks can you recap the stuff i would need to do it 
pistons and what kind of gears and pullies


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

is it the same part that you would use wit hthe G60


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_is it the same part that you would use wit hthe G60 

is what the same part?


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

the gears and pullies and such 
is it all thje same as the G60 would be


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

man wiz... i been thinkin about just droppin the f'n full aeb in thier /w a k26 manifold, new oil lines, custom intake manifold on drivers side, and an awic and calling it a day.
would save about $2k bucks


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (the4ork)*

btw, does anyone make a 1.8t manifold /w a k26 flange? or am i gong to have to have one modified or custom made?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_btw, does anyone make a 1.8t manifold /w a k26 flange? or am i gong to have to have one modified or custom made?

Check with zornig,see what he can do for you.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

oh yeah i know zornig could make me one. thats prabably what i'll do.
depends on how long my 8v lasts b/c i really want to BUILD the 20v. and im talkin like solid lifter conv. and cams, aba block, coated and treated everything...
but if the 8v doesnt last until i get my rabbit pickup then i'll drop the aeb completly in.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Rabbit pickup + 20V =


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Rabbit pickup + 20V =









naw rabitt pickup + 1.9 /w IDI turbo diesel, intercoled @ 25psi


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*

why not rabbit with a 20v and 25 psi


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

Rabbits suck and are ugly!


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*

so what they are small and fast


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

Small yes, fast is something you have to make them.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*

yeah with a 20V it would fly if you put wings on it


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

20v Rabbits are over rated.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*

how the hell do you figure


----------



## gtibunny8v (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

Cause he owns one.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (gtibunny8v)*

oh ok


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

im talkin 25psi rabbit pickup diesel and still get over 30mpg


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Like I said 20v Rabbits are over rated. Read sig to see why.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

ok i'm either doign a ABA 20v or a 16V (just cuz its cheaper and easyer to do) what do you guys think abotu that
and what kind of work would need to be done.. i heard that i would need a 16V passat wiring harness


_Modified by GTi Leo at 1:51 AM 5-15-2005_


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scirocco20v* »_ The Prelude belt does fit if you use the 20v cam gear on the IM shaft and the ABA block. When I have time Ill throw mine together for some pics. 

Any update on this ????????

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Connecting rods = ABA Forged units = 159mm
Pistons = JE Forged units with a wrist pin that sits 3.2mm lower than a usual ABA piston.

even with this the rod ratio will be the same as the aba but with a heavier piston


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (PITGUY)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PITGUY* »_even with this the rod ratio will be the same as the aba but with a heavier piston

neither the ABA Rods + TDi Crank nor ABA Rods + AEB Crank will have the same rod ratio as ABA rods + ABA Crank.
Whatever weight is added to bring the wrist pin lower can be removed from the skirts.Not so?


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
The age old war between 16V's and 20V's will never end.Its what you the user wants.
Will both engines make over 400hp?Has been proven many times...If you plan on making 400hp,I would worry about getting that power to the ground before worrying about the head.Reality is 20V's get more *sponsourship* and there is the famous 1.8T challenge.
Now if European Car did a 16V challenge I am sure lots of people would enter.I have a AEB 20V so I will be staying 20V.


i'm not really looking for which gives more power. just how easy is it and how much cheaper is the 16V rather then a 20V

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_neither the ABA Rods + TDi Crank nor ABA Rods + AEB Crank will have the same rod ratio as ABA rods + ABA Crank.
Whatever weight is added to bring the wrist pin lower can be removed from the skirts.Not so?


a TDI crank can be used on an ABA??Isn't a TDI crank strong as ****?? pardon my lingo


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
i'm not really looking for which gives more power. just how easy is it and how much cheaper is the 16V rather then a 20V

16V Head = $50
20V Head = $450









_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
a TDI crank can be used on an ABA??Isn't a TDI crank strong as ****?? pardon my lingo

Yes they are very strong but I like small stroke's so i will stay with the 86.4mm unit.Ideal rod ratio for a high reving engine is in the 1.8 range.I would prefer to gain displacement by increasing the bore.

_Quote, originally posted by *ROD RATIO* »_
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 95.5 (TDI Crank)
*ROD RATIO = 1.67*
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 92.8mm (ABA Crank)
*ROD RATIO = 1.71*
Block = ABA
Rod Length = 159mm
Stroke = 86.4mm (AEB Crank)
*ROD RATIO = 1.84*
Block = 9A/AEB
Rod Length = 144mm
Stroke = 92.8mm
*ROD RATIO = 1.55*


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

so if i were to put in the crank that would mean the rods need to be changed to right?? or wrong???
and wouldn't a AEB crank be the same as all the rest of the 1.8Ts


_Modified by GTi Leo at 10:00 PM 5-15-2005_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
16V Head = $50
20V Head = $450











and would a 16V be easyer to install considering not notch would need to be cut and just the head replaced


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_so if i were to put in the crank that would mean the rods need to be changed to right?? or wrong???

Which Crank? TDI?

_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_
and wouldn't a AEB crank be the same as all the rest of the 1.8Ts


Newer 1.8T Cranks have a gear to control the oil pump.
And no the 16V wont need any modifications to fit on the old style blocks.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Which Crank? TDI?


yeah the TDI crank


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_yeah the TDI crank

No but you will need custom pistons that have a wrist pin 1.35mm higher than stock ABA units.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

crap!! to much work.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

oh one other question 
since in a 16V the distributer is in the head should i keep it on the head or put it on the bluck liek the ABAs distributer is. and how would i block the big hole in the head


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

hey wiz... what would the difference between an aba/aeb combo that we are talking about here... and boring an aeb block to 1.9?
they both come out to be 1.9, but the aba hybrid still has a better rod ratio?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

hmmm... so the rod ratio for a stock aeb block is 1.55? thats worse than using a tdi crank in an aba block?


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Whats wrong with a 1.55 rod ratio?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yukon Jack* »_Whats wrong with a 1.55 rod ratio?

Nothing,My goal in mind is different,high revving high flowing 20V.
ABA 20V's have been done,9A/3A 20V's have been done...
I want a 1.8 Rod Ratio and in order to get these I need a ABA Blcok with a 1.8T Crank.
Put it this way,there will be enough information/results to document when its all done.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Nothing,My goal in mind is different,*high revving* high flowing 20V.
ABA 20V's have been done,9A/3A 20V's have been done...
I want a 1.8 Rod Ratio and in order to get these I need a ABA Blcok with a 1.8T Crank.
Put it this way,there will be enough information/results to document when its all done.

thats where its at!


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (the4ork)*

Thats why I just bought a B18C1 block and B16 head for the other bunny. 220whp all motor sounds too fun.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yukon Jack* »_Thats why I just bought a B18C1 block and B16 head for the other bunny. 220whp all motor sounds too fun. 

Congrats,be sure to make a project thread here.Whats wrong with having a different goal in mind?If everyone was doing the same things all the time we wouldnt see different results.
The Most powerful 20V @ the last 1.8T Challenge wasnt even a "T"....why reinvent the wheel when I can simply await the results of either Ricky's or Andre's 20V to see where there 92.8 stroke 20V leads them.
I want a 86.4mm Stroke 20V with a 1.8 Rod Ratio....again its what I want.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yukon Jack* »_Thats why I just bought a B18C1 block and B16 head for the other bunny. 220whp all motor sounds too fun. 

thats what me and my buddy have planned a 2.0 16V turbo bunny but instead whe are gonna make it a pickup bunny. you guys think it'll work


_Modified by GTi Leo at 9:25 PM 5-17-2005_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

duh!!! can you even fit a honda engine in a rabbit
but i still want to do a bunny project with a g60 tranny and the 16V aba combo


_Modified by GTi Leo at 9:27 PM 5-17-2005_


----------



## gtibunny8v (Jan 4, 2002)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

I could put a big block chevy in a rabbit.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (gtibunny8v)*

so can i 
i can put it in the trunk and make the engine bay my new trunk but is there a point. i'd rather have a dub motor then a big block chevy


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_so can i 
i can put it in the trunk and make the engine bay my new trunk but is there a point. i'd rather have a dub motor then a big block chevy










VW suck...simple as that. 600whp is probably the most someone has gotten froma VW 4cyl on gasoline. There are 800+whp Honda's out there on gas and 1600+ whp all motor big block chevys out there on gas.


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTi Leo* »_ok man shut the ****. you come on this site bashing VWs why would you even come on here knocking **** liek a retarded no life that you are. i hate hondas they are poo in my mind. torquless sacks of wood and sound like ****. chevys are a waste of a perfectly good big block motor, like a vipers gay as 8.3 with 550 horse, like how **** is that.

end rant
Leo


Thats whats great about this site, I dont have to "shut the ****" up. Yep, I have no life thats why I own a 20v Rabbit, building another 20v Rabbit, building a 20v Scirocco, building a 500+hp B18 engine and you own a stock ass mk4. 
Do you call this torqueless? It carries a flat torque curve from 4200 to 8500rpm and makes over 120wtq at 2000rpm. Your 2l barely makes over that torque at that rpm or any rpm matter of fact. So learn something before you speak. BTW: thats a stock Type R with 13psi, stock engine. If you want more, I can show you hundreds of more.


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Only advice i can offer is to start collecting parts.Thats what I have been doing for a while. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

yup thats what i'm starting to do


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

Dont hate


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Yukon Jack* »_Dont hate

if you like jdm's so much get off the vortex and sell your rabbit








can we keep this post technical about hybrid 20v's only please. i plan on doing this and i would like it to remain out of the black whole


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
if you like jdm's so much get off the vortex and sell your rabbit








can we keep this post technical about hybrid 20v's only please. i plan on doing this and i would like it to remain out of the black whole

exactly 
thats why i deleted my other posts


----------



## Yukon Jack (Apr 27, 2005)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

.


_Modified by das Haupt at 10:38 AM 5-19-2005_


----------



## GTi Leo (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (Yukon Jack)*

.


_Modified by das Haupt at 10:37 AM 5-19-2005_


----------



## ricety-rice (May 19, 2005)

.


_Modified by das Haupt at 6:47 PM 5-19-2005_


----------



## polov8 (Apr 14, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Bump for a seriously interesting thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: (polov8)*

And, here's another bump for a positive contribution. Knowledge is KING. (-and every king needs his *Wizard*)


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

wiz, tell me i should just drop in my entire aeb for a little while and get a k26 mani built for it


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

yup







i might just through a new headgasket on


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

this saturday



































i can't wait. i think i might sell my 2.0 head/manifolds/rail ect. (crap i dont need) and put my current turbo (when i get it back) on the 1.8t with an 02a
then i'll have a pretty reliable motor/trans


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (Wizard-of-OD)*

Did you notice that Twinscrew20V's G60 is feeding through a TB?







. The G60 actually sees vacuum with his setup, along with the FMIC.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (jwatts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwatts* »_Did you notice that Twinscrew20V's G60 is feeding through a TB?







. The G60 actually sees vacuum with his setup, along with the FMIC.

It would be safe to assume you wrote that software?








What advantages do you gain from running the Throttle Body before the supercharger besides noise reduction?
More picture's of Twinscrew's setup courtesy of Kersten (funksoulkitty),the coolest kat on the forums


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (Wizard-of-OD)*

He had it set up that way until he munched a couple too many twin-screws on it. Apparently something might have been wrong with his home brewed silencer dealio. When he stepped back to a G60, he just decided to re-use what he already made up. 
With the G60, I would think the location of the TB would put it at a disadvantage with a smaller opening in front of the charger. But, apparently it's making some healthy boostage. 
It made 190whp in normal G60 mode on 91 octane. It was a good excuse for a weekend long layover in Phoenix for me while 
He had a bunch of bad luck with that first charger, so in went the lysholm... and now, back to G60. It's a never-ending project, no matter what state the car is in, or what the owner tells you







. That huge FMIC he's got on there would work great with a big turbo, too







.


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

what happened the lysholm charger? i thought they were more reliable than the g60


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

Some people are just prone to break a bowling ball with a rubber mallet







.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just some info about the Accessories Crank Pulley.
You can either machine the pulley yourself:








or get one from Futrell









^ quoted from wizard


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (the4ork)*

or run washers to push the other pullies out further so they all line up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
poor lazy mans way


----------



## AZWabbit (Nov 6, 2002)

*Re: (jwatts)*

Bowling ball and rubber mallet.







That's starting to explaing a lot of things. And all this time, I thought it was the twin 'Turbonators.' 
By the way, the Rabbit is ready for you next time you come back to Phoenix with a 2.0 16V swap. At least the A/C is hooked up and works as opposed to somebody else's "hot" wheels.


_Modified by AZWabbit at 11:53 PM 5-25-2005_


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (Wizard-of-OD)*

who spent $150?


----------



## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)

can this be done on an obd2 car such as my jetta without crazy headache? I would like to just rebuild my obd2 ABA w/ some sort of custom pistons and do this all motor style. Thye biggest thing other than figuring out what to do with pistons is that I cant figure out how to do this to a mk3. All the FAQ's are for obd1 cars or mk2's


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (EDM_v-dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EDM_v-dub* »_can this be done on an obd2 car such as my jetta without crazy headache? I would like to just rebuild my obd2 ABA w/ some sort of custom pistons and do this all motor style. Thye biggest thing other than figuring out what to do with pistons is that I cant figure out how to do this to a mk3. All the FAQ's are for obd1 cars or mk2's

2 quick questions:
1. Do you plan on using the stock OBD2 Engine Management system
2. You just want to build a NA 2.0 20V?


----------



## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)

I would like to 
Yes, shooting for 160-180 whp, nothing crazy. mostly daily driven. 
I have had some crazy all motor hondas that made a significant amount more power n/a. (206 whp ITR) I just want to see if its possible out of one of these set ups


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (EDM_v-dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EDM_v-dub* »_I would like to 
Yes, shooting for 160-180 whp, nothing crazy. mostly daily driven. 
I have had some crazy all motor hondas that made a significant amount more power n/a. (206 whp ITR) I just want to see if its possible out of one of these set ups

Anything is possible.Do you plan on using ITB's on your setup?Check out these yamaha units on a 16V:


----------



## EDM_v-dub (Mar 16, 2003)

I was thinking of doing ITB's down the road. I just need to know if an obd2 block will work and what to do for engine management. I guess I might have to just look around for cheap parts and pioneer this thing if nobody knows what to do.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (EDM_v-dub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EDM_v-dub* »_I was thinking of doing ITB's down the road. I just need to know if an obd2 block will work and what to do for engine management. I guess I might have to just look around for cheap parts and pioneer this thing if nobody knows what to do.

Yes it will work on an OBD2 Block.Since your not going FI then the Oil Squirters found in the ODB1 Blocks are not a *necessity*.This is going to be a rather interesting project








As for engine management,you can always go full standalone (034,MS,etc) or you can use Digi-1 (which I believe was what you wanted to do in the first place).I am not sure if you can get a custom chip burnt for a NA 20V but I am sure mkrad or mr Watts above would be able to accomodate your feed for power


----------



## MK1SRocc (Jan 7, 2003)

*Latest bumps in the road.*

Did you know there are two AEB timing belts?
I didn't untill this one from the dealership ended up a little short.








The two part #'s are: 
058 109 119 C, Too short (153 teeth). And,
*058 109 119 A*, This is the one we want.
Now I have to go back to the dealership.
One more thing:
If the 8v intermediate shaft is going to be used, a 3/8" thick spacer is needed to align the timing belt pulleys.


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Ooops! I cross-posted this to the old 20V PG forum...sorry!

Hi all,
I'm just in the throes of assembling my 20V PG, and I've come across a few issues on which I need a little help:
1.) A coolant passage on the 20V head doesn't line up with anything on the PG block. Someone mentioned an OBD1 ABA head gasket to block it, anyone got a part # on that head gasket?

2.) I got 3/8" aluminum plugs for the oil drain passages, do the passages need to be threaded or can I simply ram them in? Should I be putting something on the threads too?

3.) I live in a very mild climate so I'm ditching the AC and want to put the alternator into the AC bracket, I've heard that there's an alternator that almost fits directly into that bracket. Anyone know which one that is?

4.) Thanks to whomever made the post about the 153t AEB belt not working with the PG block, I guess I can return mine this Monday... 

5.) For intake manifold I can suggest the Audi TT 225hp intake, it fits quite well. For the t/b, I wandered down to the local aluminum boat builder and he made a flange/adapter to mate my G60 TB to the TT intake. I'm just trying to figure out how to make it look more like a factory part - I'm big on that factory look!

6.) Pistons: I used a set of OEM 1.8L 16V pistons and had the top of the piston machined into a 1.8T piston...hope this gives reasonable compression!
That's about all I can think of right now...
Thanks!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (squeeze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_
1.) A coolant passage on the 20V head doesn't line up with anything on the PG block. Someone mentioned an OBD1 ABA head gasket to block it, anyone got a part # on that head gasket?

Its an oil line,not a coolant line and yes the ABA Headgasket fixes the problem.

_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_
2.) I got 3/8" aluminum plugs for the oil drain passages, do the passages need to be threaded or can I simply ram them in? Should I be putting something on the threads too?








...Seriously think through what your doing.Why would you want to *press* in some plugs?
Thread the head,place loctite on the plugs and then screw them into the head.

_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_
3.) I live in a very mild climate so I'm ditching the AC and want to put the alternator into the AC bracket, I've heard that there's an alternator that almost fits directly into that bracket. Anyone know which one that is?

Yes...the ABA Alternator.Look back a couple of pages and you will see guys using the ABA set-up with there 20V Hybrids.

_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_
5.) For intake manifold I can suggest the Audi TT 225hp intake, it fits quite well. For the t/b, I wandered down to the local aluminum boat builder and he made a flange/adapter to mate my G60 TB to the TT intake. I'm just trying to figure out how to make it look more like a factory part - I'm big on that factory look!

Just use an ABA Throttle Body and have the Digi-I throttle switch adapted to the manifold.


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Its an oil line,not a coolant line and yes the ABA Headgasket fixes the problem.


Hmm, I'm pretty certain that it's a coolant passage. I'll take pics to clarify what I'm talking about. We might be talking apples and oranges here...

Does the part # of the ABA head gasket end with 383 N? 


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_







...Seriously think through what your doing.Why would you want to *press* in some plugs?
Thread the head,place loctite on the plugs and then screw them into the head.









Sorry, poor word choice on my part - < 4 hours of sleep the night before. I was wondering if the plugs required a tap and obviously they do, thanks.

Thanks for the rest of the info!


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Well, here's the latest on my 20V PG:

Bolted the head on today, I didn't get too worked up about the head coolant passage/hole in head gasket dead ending into block, a VW mechanic told me not to worry about it since the coolant would take the path of least resistance. He didn't think that it would seep into the gasket either.
Most of the pullies/gears are mounted - just getting all the bolts and nuts for a final assault on the accessories. Still uncertain about the alternator, the ones I looked at aren't anywhere near fitting. 
Waiting on the coolant flange to arrive + that goofy flat oval seal that goes on the end of the PG block --- had to come out of the US, no stock at any Canadian dealer!

Unfortunately, I forgot my camera @ home, no pics yet. Tomorrow though (I've put camera in my car!).

A question about fuel injectors:

Can the digi-1 drive new injectors(out of a 1.8T) or do I need to use the older injectors(G60)? 









Justin


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (squeeze)*

I found some old pics that illustrate the problem with the coolant passage thing!

Now to figure out how to post them....









I don't suppose that I could post them, could I?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (squeeze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_
Can the digi-1 drive new injectors(out of a 1.8T) or do I need to use the older injectors(G60)?

Talk to jwatts and see what he can do for you.Email me the pictures and ill host them.


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Thanks! That't very generous. I'll send along what I've got!
Got an email address for that?
You can reply to: [email protected]
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









Justin

_Modified by squeeze at 10:20 PM 6-24-2005_


_Modified by squeeze at 10:21 PM 6-24-2005_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_Thanks! That't very generous. I'll send along what I've got

Never got the Photos.Resend them...
More Pics of Chudstien...


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yikes! I'm actually working in the Arctic right now(~65N 106.5W)...I don't have access to my pics. I did spend some time trying to figure out where to send 'em though....not sure where to find your email address. 
Anyhow, I'll be home at the end of July. The first thing I'll do is pick up where I left off!

Thanks again!

Justin


----------



## Dubluva (Sep 16, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - Page 17 (squeeze)*

simple question: 
Stock ABA block, 20v AEB head, Stacked aba metal headgaskets.
Will the 5th valve make contact with the pistons?
Thanks


----------



## veedub55 (Jun 20, 2004)

ok i have a g60 motor and i just got a stage 4 charger with rsr outlet so im reading this post for the first time and im motivated now to do a 20v head on my bottom end, if its possible


----------



## veedub55 (Jun 20, 2004)

ive been reading and all i read about is the 20v head on the aba bottom, and i wana use the g60 bottm


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*PG + 20V*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub55* »_ok i have a g60 motor and i just got a stage 4 charger with rsr outlet so im reading this post for the first time and im motivated now to do a 20v head on my bottom end, if its possible


_Quote, originally posted by *Not2Fast* »_
Taken from this site:
*G60* : Rod Length = 136mm
Wrist Pin Diamater = 22mm
Bore = 81mm
CR = 8:1
Rod Journal = 48mm
*20V* : Rod Length = 144mm
Wrist Pin Diameter = 20mm
Bore = 81mm
CR = 9.2:1
Rod Journal = 48mm


Placing the 20V head on the PG block is going to bring the CR down about 1.5 points equalling 6.5:1.This is going to be way too low so if you want to use your G60 bottom end then try and locate a set of 1.8T Pistons and rods from a damaged engine as this would be your best bet to lower the CR.
Make sure when you build your Hybrid that you use one of these Dhalback manifolds








HTH http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

what do those dahlback manifolds run? and are they for aeb style ports or other?


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

hey its been a while since i've read all this info, but you cant do an aba /w an AWP head can you? just wondering cause i just put a down payment on an entire AWP motor swap (brakes, harness, ecu, 02m, cables, hydrolic pedals and components, shift box/cables)
im just interested in the transmission swap and maybe the brakes, but i may keep the motor around if possible


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: PG + 20V (the4ork)*

the timing belt is the only tricky part for a 20V ABA. If you've already got SDS, then you should seriously consider the head swap







.


----------



## veedub55 (Jun 20, 2004)

has anyone ever dones this or is currently running this, how is reliability??


----------



## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: (veedub55)*

If you are refering to the 20v ABA, yes I have done it for a customer. (fromshotovdub) works pretty good..... but I did releive/notch pistons for the fifth valve... another notable is the timing belt setup.... I used 16v bottom end sprockets with matching pulley. I lathed a smaller tensioner pulley to work with the Prelude timing belt.. it has tension adjustment also.
pulley pic










_Modified by silly_sohc at 12:52 AM 7-10-2005_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (silly_sohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *veedub55* »_has anyone ever dones this or is currently running this, how is reliability??

In the process of building a ABK 20V (europe's ABA).Just waiting on some head components.

_Quote, originally posted by *silly_sohc* »_If you are refering to the 20v ABA, yes I have done it for a customer. (fromshotovdub) works pretty good..... but I did releive/notch pistons for the fifth valve... another notable is the timing belt setup.... I used 16v bottom end sprockets with matching pulley. I lathed a smaller tensioner pulley to work with the Prelude timing belt.. it has tension adjustment also.

JAY!
welcome!Anymore pictures of the build up process/difficulty encountered with the build?


----------



## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Not many pics of the actual build. some in my sig below... 
I would do it again... I like the swap.. and it ran the first try. other than what I mentioned earlier, just some fabrication on my part needed... But SDS or any other coil pack dependant EMS should be used... makes life easier. 
The pulley I made is round key stock in the center with a hole offset for tensioning (very close to the edge). Then two ATV bearings press fitted into a custom aluminum pulley. The timing belt was a 98-99 Prelude Vtec Conitech # tb226. Or Dayco belt # 95226. Other than the Fiat belt with stock tensioners you could also run the 159 tooth Isuzu/Geo belt....Dayco #92169... its also one mm wider. they all have the same tooth profile as the VW/Audi. 
Things I'd like to change for the customer would be the pulley system... I had to work with 16v v-grove stuff, and the aba serpentime system... not the best combo but it works. I would suggest making a alternator bracket and using 1.8t pulleys. I did that on a mk2 1.8t swap recently.
you might see it in this pic... maybe


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (GTi Leo)*

hey wiz, can you only use the AEB head?
just wondering if i should keep the awp head around or get rid of it


----------



## veedub55 (Jun 20, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

im wondering if its just gana be easier to throw in a complete 20v and do the whole 2.0 ecu and acce. deal


----------



## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: (veedub55)*

You'll have issues with timing still. Distributorless head to adapt also (20v).


----------



## Proulus (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

Anybody have any clue where I can get a N/A 20v exhaust mani? I know they sell the cars like in south africa and europe or whatever, but anybody know of a way to get the part?


----------



## Proulus (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

sideways... it's a mk4 golf. Figure everybody always talking about a 20v aeg and then not doing it, why not try? just gotta get as much together as I can before I go ripping apart my motor. got a twin screw on my floor if I ever can afford forced induction but for now N/A is fine with me.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: PG + 20V (Proulus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Proulus* »_sideways... it's a mk4 golf. Figure everybody always talking about a 20v aeg and then not doing it, why not try? just gotta get as much together as I can before I go ripping apart my motor. got a twin screw on my floor if I ever can afford forced induction but for now N/A is fine with me.

Well same principal applies if you dont want to spend money on pistons.Your CR IS going to drop from 10:1 to 8.5:1 when you place the 20V on the AEG bottom end.
I wouldnt bother buying an "OEM" exhaust manifold when there are tons of decent fabricators all over vortex that can build you a decent extractor for less than what you would pay if you were to import an OEM unit.Talk to Silly SOHC for all your fabrication needs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Proulus (Jan 21, 2005)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

I was thinking high compression 20v pistons would help with that. I've seen 11.1:1 from bildon, the only problem is they're 82mm bore instead of 82.5mm. the other part is they cost a lot.


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

Ok, I got to page 12 and still wasn't catching on to the whole engine management thing. I'm going to be building a 20v AEB/ABA turbo and I was wondering what people are doing for engine management? This will be going into a corrado g60 so can I plug in the CE2/mototronic ABA engine arness and the ECU harness and have it chipped? Or ca I graft the AEB ecu harness into the G60 ecu harness and use that stock ecu to control everything...with the option of having a wider range of chipping companies to chip the ecu?? Thanks in advance!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: PG + 20V (VTGTI337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTGTI337* »_Ok, I got to page 12 and still wasn't catching on to the whole engine management thing. I'm going to be building a 20v AEB/ABA turbo and I was wondering what people are doing for engine management? This will be going into a corrado g60 so can I plug in the CE2/mototronic ABA engine arness and the ECU harness and have it chipped? Or ca I graft the AEB ecu harness into the G60 ecu harness and use that stock ecu to control everything...with the option of having a wider range of chipping companies to chip the ecu?? Thanks in advance!









It is always best to go with full standalone...
hit up jwatts and see what he can do for you in the chip department on a Digi-I.
Right now I am running 034EFi Stage IIc.I was running Ic with the waste spark system but since upgraded to IIc so that I can utilise 4 coils to obtain direct fire.


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

Gogin back to the forged internals...was it just in '94 that the ABA block had these components? Also, was it found to be true that the rods were forged as well? Thanks in advance!


----------



## nigel (Jan 3, 2001)

*Re: PG + 20V (VTGTI337)*

All connecting rods are forged. They have to be to withstand the forces inside an engine, that is why they usually bend and don't shatter like a cast part would.
all pre OBD-2 ABA blocks have a forged crank and piston oil squirters. depending on state or province OBD-2 is ussually 1996 but areas with stricter emissions like cali adopted OBD-2 slightly sooner.
O/T this is the reason why digi 2 cars from cali had throttle potentiometers instead of idle and WOT switches.


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: PG + 20V (nigel)*

Awesome! Thanks for the insight!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: PG + 20V (VTGTI337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nigel* »_All connecting rods are forged. They have to be to withstand the forces inside an engine, that is why they usually bend and don't shatter like a cast part would.

Are you sure that all VW Conrods are forged or only OBD1 ABA?
Public Service Annoucement : Anyone interested in an AGN exhaust manifold that bolts to the stock 16V down pipe?


----------



## nigel (Jan 3, 2001)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Are you sure that all VW Conrods are forged or only OBD1 ABA?


Yes all conrods are forged, it is the crankshaft in ABA motors that changed from forged to cast when going from OBD-1 toOBD-2.
I would say think about the dynamics of combustion in an engine and the spans of material involved. A con rod is fairly long and has no support aside from the crank shaft bearings and is constantly being pounded by combustion events. A cast crank will work because it is supported by 5 bearings, plus it is alot beefier and has a great deal more material to handle turning all the force from the combustion events into rotational motion.

_Modified by nigel at 8:52 AM 8-24-2005_


_Modified by nigel at 8:53 AM 8-24-2005_


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: PG + 20V (Wizard-of-OD)*

Forged=strong cast=weak, OBD1's are forged.


----------



## nigel (Jan 3, 2001)

*Re: PG + 20V (VTGTI337)*

edited


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## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Is what I don't get is vw using the change between obd1 and obd2 to change froma forged bottom end to a cast bottom end?? Because, emissions standards very from state to state meaning were cali could have gone obd2 at one time other states could have gone obd2 at other times...which means vw would have to add different engines for a certain amount of vehicles throughout a range of years, it doesn't make sense.. Especially when OBD functionality is mostly sensors and electronics rather than internal engine compenantry (spelling?). It would make more sense for vw to change bottom ends at a bench mark like when vw went to the mk3 chassis/A3 body rather than sprinkling them throughout manufacturing based on state to state legislation??? Just something I've been kicking around my empty head....


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Latest bumps in the road. (VTGTI337)*

This talk of forged and unforged cranks, my question is how much horsepower can you push with an unforged 96 aba crank and how much from a forged 94 crank.
Also has anyone with a ABA/20v head on here had there car dynoed? I'm interested in what kind of power other people are putting down.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TwinScrew20V* »_PG 8V Head Chamber = 29cc (counterflow)
PL 16V Head Chamber = 49cc
ABA 8V Head Chamber = 30cc (crossflow)
AEB 20V Head Chamber = 42cc

How does the MK4 AEG+ (AZG,etc.) 8v heads measure up? (chamber vol)
Thanks, Rey


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
How does the MK4 AEG+ (AZG,etc.) 8v heads measure up? (chamber vol)
Thanks, Rey

I was told 30cc, so I calc a final CR of 8.4:1 with a 20v head and
even less if relief notches are cut into the pistons.


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## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*

So did the Passat/Audi's with the AEB engine come with coilpacks or sparkplugs? If they have coilpacks could you run the ABA Engine harness with the AEB ECU (Connection point the same?) and then put a Dizzy/cam sensor combo in the cam sensors mounting spot on the AEB head like in the New Age 1.8T swap article. That way you could run original wiring (maybe a splice here and there for the AEB head) and engine management but still be able to upgrade the Turbo and ecu through companies like ATP, APR, etc. buy purchasing the upgrade kits for that specific AEB car (ie: 98 passat/Audi A4)?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (VTGTI337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VTGTI337* »_So did the Passat/Audi's with the AEB engine come with coilpacks or sparkplugs? If they have coilpacks could you run the ABA Engine harness with the AEB ECU (Connection point the same?) and then put a Dizzy/cam sensor combo in the cam sensors mounting spot on the AEB head like in the New Age 1.8T swap article. 

The AEB comes with CoilPacks and yes you can run an ABA Harness,you would just have to lengthen some connectors and have a chip burnt for it.I am against placing the distributor where the stock hall sender is on a 20V because Its pointless.Unless your running a New Style block (AW"X") then you certainly have the option of placing a distributor in the block and this is what I recommend.

_Quote, originally posted by *VTGTI337* »_
That way you could run original wiring (maybe a splice here and there for the AEB head) and engine management but still be able to upgrade the Turbo and ecu through companies like ATP, APR, etc. buy purchasing the upgrade kits for that specific AEB car (ie: 98 passat/Audi A4)?









Not sure what your trying to do but building your own harness is NOT that hard.Why do you want to use an ABA Harness/ECU combo?


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## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Basically I want to run a 20v 2.0L on an oem harness to save money (unless it is cheaper to run SDS with a BT from the gate rather than doing it in sections) and to run the oem turbo setup to start. Then run a BT turbo setup with aftermarket software like ATP, REVO, or APR because of this I was hoping that the AEB ECU would plug directly into the ABA Harness (For the reasons below...) and be able to retain stock driveability of of the stock AEB ecu with the spliced in head sensors..
As for the Harness I figured you'd use the ABA Harness to match all of the sensors on the ABA block and splice in the sensors for the 20v AEB head because aren't there less sensors on the head than the block/coolant system? You know majority rules...


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (VTGTI337)*

I would just run Standalone if my State allowed it.
SEM system's > Any Chip on the market.034EFi offers a complete Plug and play system for all DBC 20V engines.Your choice... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ThirstyGreek (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

What is the resulting CR if you use the G60 rods and pistons? I know the G60s are dished and the 1.8t are flat tops. Would it be close to 9.0:1? If it is too low I may consider shaving the head a bit to up it.
Thanks!


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Timing Belt info (ThirstyGreek)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ThirstyGreek* »_What is the resulting CR if you use the G60 rods and pistons? I know the G60s are dished and the 1.8t are flat tops. Would it be close to 9.0:1? If it is too low I may consider shaving the head a bit to up it.
Thanks!
G-60s are 8:1 to start with and then using a head with 11-12 cc more will be down in the 6.X range. You should not shave the head that much nor could you shave it enough to get a decent comp. ratio.


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## ThirstyGreek (Sep 19, 2005)

*Re: Timing Belt info (vwpat)*

Wouldn't it only be hundreths of an inch off the head to raise it 1.5 pts? I am having a hell of a time finding AEB pistons and rods, I would prefer something more easily avaiable.
Thanks for the response


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## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (ThirstyGreek)*

Well, you can use stock/replacement 16V pistons and have them turned down a couple of mm's - they're only $80/piston(Cdn). That's what I did. 
As a matter of fact, I went to a dealer and found a junked 1.8T piston - then I just took that and my 16V pistons down to a machinist and told him to match the 16V piston to the 1.8T piston. The machining cost me an additional $30/piston. Just to note: the 1.8T piston does have the 5th valve notch and that was duplicated on the 16V piston by the machinist.
It was pretty straightforward. You'll be surprised at the minimal difference in compression heights between the 2 pistons and the 16V piston has material to give. 
I wouldn't run a crazy amount of boost with those pistons though, say 12-13psi and no more. I'm gonna be running 8-10psi. There's a local fellow who built the same bottom end for a 16V G60 and he's been running strong for about 4 years.








Justin

ps(off topic to someone else) - hey Wiz, I'll be back from the Arctic in 3 weeks, I'll get the pics of my motor to you then!!


----------



## EuroKid83 (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

How much for the alt setup?


----------



## 631 Corrado (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*










where did this guy get thoes canisters on the right to hold coolnt and p/s fluid , ive been looknig for these


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## 631 Corrado (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

no do they have a web site?


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## GLI2NR (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*








*So it can be done?...All the Locals say no..but Ill show them. 1.8 G60 block 20v head and a Turbo or should I do lysholm?*


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## Euro99G3 (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (GLI2NR)*

For give my ignorance on this topic, Ive read the tread and it is very informative. I want to know from and engine management stand point is it possible to do this and not do stand alone, reason being, you cant pass emissions on stand alone management, i might be wrong about this too, also if there are any dyno numbers of this setup with turbo. thanks and apprieciate any info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (GLI2NR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLI2NR* »_







So it can be done?...All the Locals say no..but Ill show them. 1.8 G60 block 20v head and a Turbo or should I do lysholm?

I would go with a Lysohlm just to keep the whole Supercharged theme.Also please tell me your just using the block?

_Quote, originally posted by *Euro99G3* »_I want to know from and engine management stand point is it possible to do this and not do stand alone, reason being, you cant pass emissions on stand alone management

You can go with Digi-I.SNS tuning (jwatts on here) has burnt custom chips for Twinscrew20V and Scirocco20V.Both of them run forced induced 20V's on Digi-I.
Maybe jwatts or mkrad can chime in?
..amazing no input from any of the advertisers/sponsours


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_..amazing no input from any of the advertisers/sponsours










You know how it goes, Issam. We open our mouth and some schmuck tells us to go away because we're spamming. It's like being a valued asset and a villain at the same time.







(shrug)


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## Euro99G3 (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I would go with a Lysohlm just to keep the whole Supercharged theme.Also please tell me your just using the block?
You can go with Digi-I.SNS tuning (jwatts on here) has burnt custom chips for Twinscrew20V and Scirocco20V.Both of them run forced induced 20V's on Digi-I.
Maybe jwatts or mkrad can chime in?
..amazing no input from any of the advertisers/sponsours










Ok i would be putting this into a mk3 obd 2 car, can i run digi one or two


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## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Euro99G3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Euro99G3* »_ reason being, you cant pass emissions on stand alone management, i might be wrong about this too, also if there are any dyno numbers of this setup with turbo. thanks and apprieciate any info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

It can be very easy to pass emmisions with stand alone.. don't give up on that thought.... my last 20/20 swap had 720cc injectors and still passed the sniffer


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## Euro99G3 (Apr 26, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (silly_sohc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silly_sohc* »_
It can be very easy to pass emmisions with stand alone.. don't give up on that thought.... my last 20/20 swap had 720cc injectors and still passed the sniffer

Yea but this would go itno a obd2 car, they hook up the port and look to see if you have any codes.


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

is the AEB crank cast or forged?


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## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Euro99G3)*

Well it's quite possible for your region compared to others, or mine, that the methode is done differently.. The 20/20 I'm refering to was in a '97 jetta. no port detection here.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_is the AEB crank cast or forged?

Early ones are, later ones aren't. No way to tell on the outside of the motor.


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

how do you tell the difference? i have two 20v engines one is a 95 ADR code n/a, the other is a 96 AEB code 1.8T, the crank in the n/a engine looks the same as a g60 crank while the AEB crank looks different


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

Cast cranks will have a light cast line along the counterweight, a forged one will have a thick forge band across the counterweight.


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## _leo_ (May 21, 2005)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

ok well i have read your thread. good job on the write up,but one question i have is won't double stackign head gaskets give enough clearence on a flat topped piston. that pic of the 1.8T piston the notch isn't that deep and looks lie kthe gasket is deeper then that notch. and if a person is going to turbo or supercharge wouldn't they waqnt the lower compression that the gasket would give??


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

i had a closer look at the ADR crank and it has the forge band down the centre like the g60 crank, the AEB crank has a light cast line.
would the ADR block and crank be the best one to use with the AEB pistons and rods, i have the volkspeed pulley to run the dizzy


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_would the ADR block and crank be the best one to use with the AEB pistons and rods, i have the volkspeed pulley to run the dizzy

The ADR is just a NA AEB,all parts should transfer over so yes use the ADR crank with the AEB piston and rods.
Where did you get the volkspeed pulley from?I have been trying to get in contact with them for ages.Do you have pictures of the complete kit?


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## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i bought my kit from Neil Wood about 3 years ago, i also bought a stainless manifold for a 20v rallye at the time.
ill take some pictures of the kit, its the same as the one a few pages back, they are blue anodised.


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

t


_Modified by rallye driver at 8:32 PM 10-17-2005_


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

http://cars.vage.ie/syncro/alb...7.jpg
this link might work


----------



## JSPORT-SCR32 (Mar 29, 2005)

what is the parts #s of the dist caps needed. or exacly what vehicles are they out of
thanks.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (JSPORT-SCR32)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_i bought my kit from Neil Wood about 3 years ago, i also bought a stainless manifold for a 20v rallye at the time.

Awesome,Thanks
When are you going to start the build up process?

_Quote, originally posted by *JSPORT-SCR32* »_what is the parts #s of the dist caps needed. or exacly what vehicles are they out of
thanks. 

Its a Bosch cap and the part # I got from RUben is:
*1235 522 259* = actual part #.
700 695 (12.860 = number on box


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

i have to finish my mk1 1.8t first!
someone sent me an im about some ADR parts, can you send me a e mail to [email protected], i have a (narrow port) intake, two exhaust manifolds and an exhaust cam spare.


_Modified by rallye driver at 9:45 PM 10-20-2005_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just wanted to drop in... moving from the VRs to a new project
This winters project is shaping up to be an ABA 20V G60








Going with the following:
OBD1 ABA bottom end 
AEB 20V head
Rebuilt stage 4 G ladder
No AC
No PS
Custom Pistons
ARP Complete Hardware
DIGI 1 management
Got almost everything except the pistons and head right now.... But head can be had locally, project will hopefully be starting within the month
I will take extensive step by step pics on the way.... unless someone beats me to it
Good luck to everyone else... and remember its just money








*** my only question.... what accessory brakets are people running with the G60 on this setup... is that what the ABA alternator talk is all about, just havent sat down with all the parts yet to figure it out, thanks***


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I have most of the parts so all should go well... if my local machine shop is not too backed up...
I was hoping to avoid doing the 16V limited thing and putting it on the back, just seems like alot more work and parts... so I guess that answers my question about the ABA alternator, that fits pretty well on the G60 braket?? I will figure it it later today and take a pic incase others are confused too


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_... so I guess that answers my question about the ABA alternator, that fits pretty well on the G60 braket?? I will figure it it later today and take a pic incase others are confused too

The ABA Alternator can fit on the G60 charger bracket as N_TENSETUNING showed.The problem your going to have is choice of belt route.Too little tensioners and the charger will slip.Too much tensioner's and things start to look ugly.LeeG across the pond make a toothed belt system work like this using a 1200mm belt and 1 tensioner,however, his system may not work on a serpentine belt.
Cross Posting from the 16V-G60 thread:


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

this is a picture of the ADR exhaust manifold from the audi a4


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I think that thing would work nicely on my Mk2..


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

maybe a fox...hmmmm..


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*from BRAZIL*

Hi,
I´m from Brazil, sorry my bad english
i want to make a ABA 20V... 
this forum helped in many details
but I still have many I doubt
what the maximum pressure (turbo) the 20v head support originally
what the maximum RPM I will obtain without risks


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: from BRAZIL (g3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_
what the maximum pressure (turbo) the 20v head support originally








..Boost?

_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_
what the maximum RPM I will obtain without risks

7500 rpm's seems to be the safe.Joel Brown took his 20V to 8500 rpm's without valve float but I wouldnt try that @ home.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: from BRAZIL (g3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_oops... yes maximum boost pressure without many risks, keeping the 20v head without internal modifications

Maximum I have seen on a stock 20V is 28PSi.I wouldnt venture past 25PSi without a built bottom end anyway.

_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_
ohh good, my 8v head with racing modification turns +/- 7000rpm and has 350hp approximately, how many hp your cars has with 20v approximately???

Right now?My 20V is turning a whopping 0Bhp







...ill be using mechanical lifters though.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: from BRAZIL (g3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_humm FOX??? here this car is called GOL
this picture of engine is a little old, but i´ll send a new picture later

Sorry I meant Gol (2 Door Coupe Fox







).I have seen pictures of that engine before over in th Fox forum.The block in there now is a Tall 236mm Block or the normal 220mm block?


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: from BRAZIL (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Sorry I meant Gol (2 Door Coupe Fox







).I have seen pictures of that engine before over in th Fox forum.The block in there now is a Tall 236mm Block or the normal 220mm block?

my atual block is the 236mm original of a 1995 German Passat
there are a howto to use 20v in this block?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: from BRAZIL (g3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_
there are a howto to use 20v in this block?
















Yes,Use an ABA headgasket and block the 3 centre oil returns on the 20V head.










_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 11:46 PM 11-28-2005_


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: from BRAZIL (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Yes,Use an ABA headgasket and block the 3 centre oil returns on the 20V head.









aaahn... now i´m using steel headgasket from A3 20V im my ABA 8V
question: 20V has eletronic adjustment of the camms ok? 
now how I adjust the angle in the modified ABA? it is kept fixed? in which position?


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: from BRAZIL (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You mean VVT?You want to activate it?

we can ignore it and keep inactive????
only adjusting in the regulable pulley?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: from BRAZIL (g3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_we can ignore it and keep inactive????
only adjusting in the regulable pulley?

Well what are you using to control the engine?Stock ME-7 or a Standalone system?


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: from BRAZIL (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Well what are you using to control the engine?Stock ME-7 or a Standalone system?

humm... Magnetti Marelli IAW 1AVP with modifications 
and external controler working with RPM x BOOST acting in 4 extra injectors


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: from BRAZIL (g3turbo)*

Well then your stuck using an Adjustable camshaft pulley in order to zero in the cam gear with the crank gear.


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: from BRAZIL (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Well then your stuck using an Adjustable camshaft pulley in order to zero in the cam gear with the crank gear.

the same adjustable pulley of 8V ??


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

Two questions
Has anyone built an ABA/AEB Turbo that has HP#'s?
Does anyone know how much CFM the AEB head can flow?
Thanks


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Not4show)*

2 quick questions... 
First is head studs... 16V work without problems??
Second (I know this is preference) but forged piston options for an ABA 20V.... go with stadard ABA, or 16V style or is there a 20V that will drop in??... seen all different things in here, is the 5th notch really needed??
Back to buying more parts


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_the same adjustable pulley of 8V ??

NO,you will need one specific to the 20V Engine.

_Quote, originally posted by *Not4show* »_
Has anyone built an ABA/AEB Turbo that has HP#'s?

HP is dependant on how much work you have done to the head.Not sure on how much anyone has made but whats your goal?

_Quote, originally posted by *Not4show* »_
Does anyone know how much CFM the AEB head can flow?

Stock big port AEBn flows about 225 CFM's.

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
First is head studs... 16V work without problems??

ARP?Raceware sells a set that will work.

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Second (I know this is preference) but forged piston options for an ABA 20V.... go with stadard ABA, or 16V style or is there a 20V that will drop in??... seen all different things in here, is the 5th notch really needed??


20V Stock Piston that will drop into an 82.5mm bore?No.
20V forged piston from JE that will drop into an 82.5mm bore?Yes
Is the 20V Notch needed?Some say yes,some say no....I wouldnt take the chance.


----------



## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

you will need the notch with a ABA block/piston combo. compression will take you down into high 7's dependant on the notch given. with JE's you can safely run close to 30psi on this combo (AEB/ABA)


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (silly_sohc)*

Guess I wasnt too clear...
ARP hardware.. will 16V studs work with the 20V head?
Pistons... JE's Do they make a ABA spec piston with a 20V style head? From what I can find they only have stock style ABA pistons and I cant find anything about 1.8t ones.... I know it would be custom but what is the best starting point?


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 1:16 PM 11-7-2005_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
ARP hardware.. will 16V studs work with the 20V head?

I went with Raceware before anyone could find out.I was told that the 16V ARP Units will work but required some filing of the nuts (or different nuts from ARP).Try it out and see what works.

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Pistons... JE's Do they make a ABA spec piston with a 20V style head? From what I can find they only have stock style ABA pistons and I cant find anything about 1.8t ones...

Contact Rodney Huss (rhussjr) on here.He will get you the right spec piston.I am going with 83mm unit's.Others have gone 83.5 and others have stayed 82.5mm.JE's makes a Piston to whatever you want.


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Quote, originally posted by Not4show » 
Has anyone built an ABA/AEB Turbo that has HP#'s? 
HP is dependant on how much work you have done to the head.Not sure on how much anyone has made but whats your goal?

I plan on making 400 WHP, Completely built motor, current T3 super 60, thinkin of T3/T4 50 trim to make the power I want, of course, it would be tuned back once max power is found


----------



## California Jay (Sep 1, 2004)

^easily obtainable, get rid of the stock intake and it will be even easier.


----------



## SSj4G60 (Aug 13, 2001)

*Re: (Not4show)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Not4show* »_Quote, originally posted by Not4show » 
Has anyone built an ABA/AEB Turbo that has HP#'s? 
HP is dependant on how much work you have done to the head.Not sure on how much anyone has made but whats your goal?

I plan on making 400 WHP, Completely built motor, current T3 super 60, thinkin of T3/T4 50 trim to make the power I want, of course, it would be tuned back once max power is found

not happening w/ the t3s60 , but maybe w/ a 50trim


----------



## SLC4ME (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (SSj4G60)*

Okay here are some questions.
Do i need to use an aeb head or can i use on of the many awp heads i have 
next question i have a real low mileage 94 aba bottom end can i just have the head decked a bit to get the cr to like 8.5:1 or will the fifth valve hit? Idont want to have to change out the pistons since they are allready forged. 
Third question i plan on using motronic from a mk3 in my corrado is there a chip manufacturer out there?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (SLC4ME)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLC4ME* »_can i use on of the many awp heads i have 

Yes you can.

_Quote, originally posted by *SLC4ME* »_Idont want to have to change out the pistons since they are allready forged. 

Since they are forged then just have them notched.I am not sure if there is anyone running flat top pistons with a 20V head.Personally I wouldnt deck the head.

_Quote, originally posted by *SLC4ME* »_
Third question i plan on using motronic from a mk3 in my corrado is there a chip manufacturer out there?

Doubtful.You can check with jeffery Atwood and see what he can brew up for you but I would recommend an SEM before a chip.


----------



## SLC4ME (Apr 16, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Yes you can.

Since they are forged then just have them notched.I am not sure if there is anyone running flat top pistons with a 20V head.Personally I wouldnt deck the head.

Doubtful.You can check with jeffery Atwood and see what he can brew up for you but I would recommend an SEM before a chip.

thanks for your help my next is there an oem piston that will work instead?


----------



## Salmacis (Nov 29, 2005)

Forgive my ignorance, but can I use a AUQ 20V head of a 20th aniv. GTI? Or is there a VVT/Non VVT issue... 
Thank you


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_82.5mm Bore?Sadly no...

I know that this wont be of alot of help to those running boost, but for those thinking about running a ABA 20V motor N/A think about this: What about using the pistons from Audi 3.0 30V? Bore on that motor is 82.5 and the stroke is the same 92.8 that the ABA has. The only real question is what are the wrist pin and crank journal diameters and the rod length from the 30V 3.0? Since the 2.8 & 3.0 30V motor is the same basic 5V head design as the 20V motors, just in 2 banks of 3 instead of 1 bank of 4 it would make sense that if the rod length is the same as the aba (or even maybe a 9A) that it could be made to work without having to go the custom piston route.. Anyone have the magic numbers to plug into this formula so we can see if it works?


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just picked up my AEB engine yesterday....








Now things should start moving http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

If I wanted to run something like mega squirt and Keep my oem conviniences like A/C, the radio, and all of that good stuff could I just remove the ecu/engine harness, the ignition harness, and the ecu and replace them with the mega squirt ecu/harness but keep the complete interior harness's as a seperate entity would the interior harness still work? Cause doesn't the interior harness go right to the battery after the fuseblock? BTW, the interior harnes is CE2. Thanks!


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (VTGTI337)*

The big problem with that is you'll have to switch over to DBC, and replace your factory gauge cluster with an early cluster, or aftermarket gauges.


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

well isn't the AEB throttle body DBC?


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Some questions*

here 16v are like ABA 8v only changing the headstock
in howto says 
16v cam gear
16v crank gear
20v cam gear and ABA IM Shaft
Prelude Timing belt
here in Brazil 16v crank gear is same ABA crank gear, and now what combination of parts i must use in my project?????















you know the correct number of teeth of the gears?????


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Some questions (g3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_I saw this pic and e also has different types of tooth

He still has to change the Crank and IM shaft gear.I would ask VRT to use pictures though bro.He is pretty anal about who views his public online gallery.









_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_
does not have problem in not using VVT?

Thats not for VVT.Thats the Hall Sensor for Direct Fire.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Some questions (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
He still has to change the Crank and IM shaft gear.I would ask VRT to use pictures though bro.He is pretty anal about who views his public online gallery.









I have no problem having people viewing them. Just people posting my pick without my permission


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: Some questions (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_
I have no problem having people viewing them. Just people posting my pick without my permission 

Sorry VRT


----------



## g3turbo (Nov 4, 2005)

*Re: Some questions (Wizard-of-OD)*

Wizard-of-OD,
can i use the combination 
20v cam gear
20v cam with ABA IM Shaft
20v crank gear
????????????????
one more time sorry for pic posted


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Some questions (g3turbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_Sorry VRT

No reason to apologise Christian.If he didnt want people viewing or hot linking his images then he should password protect the gallery.As far as I am concerned those pictures are free for all regardless of permission or not.

_Quote, originally posted by *g3turbo* »_
20v cam gear
20v cam with ABA IM Shaft
20v crank gear

Depends on if you want to turn a distributor.If your using Coil packs then you dont need to modify the IM shaft gear to accept a 20V Cam Gear.
If you want to the block mounted distributor then the IM shaft gear and the camshaft gear must turn @ a 1:2 ratio of the crankshaft gear.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Some questions (g3turbo)*

here's a hint


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Some questions (VRT)*

If ever you need to use a VR6 throttle Body I can have an adapter plate made for you:


----------



## Action Jackson (Nov 20, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Stock big port AEBn flows about 225 CFM's.


Just curious and weighing the pros/cons of a 2.0 w/ 20v head or 16v head.
So how much does a stock 16v head flow? 2.0 head that is.


----------



## skaterhernandez4 (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (Action Jackson)*

ok of those who did the 20v head swap or those who know enough about it-- 
Is this a large undertaking? About how many hours would you say a decently automotively skilled guy and a helper would take? I am looking for a good way for more power in my g60 but still cant have my car off the road for more than a month.
thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Evan


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (skaterhernandez4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *skaterhernandez4* »_ok of those who did the 20v head swap or those who know enough about it-- 
Is this a large undertaking? About how many hours would you say a decently automotively skilled guy and a helper would take? I am looking for a good way for more power in my g60 but still cant have my car off the road for more than a month.
thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Evan

get an extra block and build everything on an engine stand in your garage. Have everything ready to drop in and you can limit downtime to a weekend if you have pulled a motor and put one back in the same car you are working on..


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (psykokid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_get an extra block and build everything on an engine stand in your garage. Have everything ready to drop in and you can limit downtime to a weekend if you have pulled a motor and put one back in the same car you are working on..

Thats pretty much what I did.Was perfect timing to mock up the dry sump system too.


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

That dry sump setup you are putting together is pretty nice... definately interested once you get it all together with sources http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

I pulled a piston from my 2.8 V6 30V today and took some measurements with pics:
pisons are 82.455mm, notched on both sides, universal for right and left banks. they are slightly domed, although they appear flat next to stock 1.8t's.
wristpins came in @ 21mm, same as ABA; rod journals are an astounding 54mm; rod length measured 154 mm.
Head chambers are different; thus, volumes are too.
left: 30V head chamber. right: 1.8t head chamber
anybody know off hand where the wristpin height is on ABA pistons?




_Modified by satchimo at 1:37 AM 1-3-2006_


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_I pulled a piston from my 2.8 V6 30V today and took some measurements with pics:
anybody know off hand where the wristpin height is on ABA pistons?
_Modified by satchimo at 1:37 AM 1-3-2006_

do you happen to know what the deck height for the 30v motor is off hand?


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

Is the turbo mounting positions with an AEB head mounted transversely with the ABA bottom end the same as the vw 1.8T's relative to the engine bay? IE: Can I run an ATP eliminator series for the AEB engine on this setup and still be able to use off the shelf components such as FMICs and exhausts to avoid the cost of specially fab'd items?


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (VTGTI337)*

yes the positions of componets is the same as any other transversely mounted 1.8T motor. you should be able to use most off the shelf stuff for a mk4 with no problems..


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_
anybody know off hand where the wristpin height is on ABA pistons?
_Modified by satchimo at 1:37 AM 1-3-2006_

looked around a lil bit and found 30.9mm as the comp height for ABA pistons..


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_
pisons are 82.455mm, notched on both sides, universal for right and left banks. they are slightly domed, although they appear flat next to stock 1.8t's.

Would be interesting to see how these compare to the 2.7TT pistons and such.Whatever the case buying these new from the dealer is going to cost you twice as much as buying from JE.

_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_looked around a lil bit and found 30.9mm as the comp height for ABA pistons..

*30.6*


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_looked around a lil bit and found 30.9mm as the comp height for ABA pistons..



_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_*30.6*

thanx guys...Fahlgren's site has them @ 30.9 definitively, but I thought I'd fish for second opinions..
I measured these ones by:
first measuring (with digi-calipers) from the crown of the piston to the bottom of the wristpin, protruding from the piston. then I subtracted half the wristpin diameter and came up with *~30mm, not counting the contribution of the slight dome, which looks like ~1mm.*


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Would be interesting to see how these compare to the 2.7TT pistons and such.Whatever the case buying these new from the dealer is going to cost you twice as much as buying from JE.


good point. I guess it's the type of thing where "if you see them, grab them" if you can get a deal. JE's etc are always better, especially if you can get them forged and made to order.


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (satchimo)*

the audi 2.7 pistons are 81 mm


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (satchimo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *satchimo* »_Fahlgren's site has them @ *30.9* definitively, but I thought I'd fish for second opinions.

As the compression Height?


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
As the compression Height?









yessir.


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (satchimo)*

Here is a quick question for you guys in the process of building or currently running these engines.....
My anticipated setup is ported 20V head, aba bottom end with 9:1 pistons and a vortech charger in the 18-20 lb range.... was planning on 42# injectors.... too big??? would 30# do it??? or something else??
Kinda unsure on this part.
Suggestions would be great http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

go for the 42#ers to make sure you have enough injector and they dont go static on you. the 30#'s can go static with an 8v head and a smaller pulley on a g-lader. conisdering you have a worked 20v head (which will flow circles around any stock 8v head) 30's would get taxed and youd end up having to upgrade to something larger down the road. Just make sure you have the chip made with the 42# injectors in mind..


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

*Re: (psykokid)*

^^wise to the game^^


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (psykokid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_Just make sure you have the chip made with the 42# injectors in mind..

Chip?
We dont do chips around these here parts son...


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

http://034efi.com/


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Chip?
We dont do chips around these here parts son...









not necessarily, he didnt go as far to list what engine management he was going to use be it stand alone or digi 1 or whatever.. so the broadest amount of people are going to be running stock engine management (for whatever reason) so you would think that a chip cut for his setup may be in his near future. (if that were the case)


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (psykokid)*

Going to be giving it a try on Digi 1 for now... custom ECU with upgraded map sensor and custom chip. If all works out


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (psykokid)*

Okay, I read all 22 pages of this thread but was unable to find the answer to my question:
I want to run a 2.0l 20v NA setup so whats the easiest (read: least expensive) way to reach a 10.5:1 compression ratio. I don't care about a distributor because I plan to use megasquirt & COP's. Also this is going in a rabbit so the less motor mount fabbing the better.


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Nefarious1.8t)*

the 20V head has a combustion chamber of about ~42cc,
the 16V head... somewhere from 45-49cc.
If you're using a 9a 2L 16V as your base for the 2L, then you can use the stock 10.8:1 pistons and end up with something in the ~11.5:1 range. You probably have to notch the pistons for valve clearance, but would probably be able to take advantage of the better chamber in the 20V to use the higher compression. If you have stand-alone management, you should be able to tune it for 92 octane, or so.


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (jwatts)*

So let me get this straight:
20v Head
9A block, pistons, etc.
The 9A pistons are already clearanced for the 16v Head, is that going to interfere with clearancing for the 20v head?


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Nefarious1.8t)*

You probably have to check for clearance and make at least one new valve relief for the intakes. Possibly for the exhaust valves, too. that's why it would be low buck







.


----------



## 2bar b3 passat (May 23, 2005)

*Re: Timing Belt info (631 JETTA)*


_Quote, originally posted by *631 JETTA* »_









where did this guy get thoes canisters on the right to hold coolnt and p/s fluid , ive been looknig for these
what intake manifold is that ? that **** is sick


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (Nefarious1.8t)*

from all the research i've done it looks like audi 3.0 V6 30v pistons should work getting the right piston design without having to get custom pistons and other bits. same piston diameter, same wristpin as the aba motor. The only bit i havent been able to verify is the piston dome to wristpin center dimension.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (psykokid)*

well, any word on if any stock alternator/serp setups will fit under the stock 20v intake mani?
I just ordered pistons and rods, and sent the block out for machining..
I'm to the point of planning assembly, and before I buy any alternator setup i want to make sure I find somethign that might sync up


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*

I'm a little out of sync with what you're doing, but I managed to fit a 2L ABA alternator in the a/c bracket under my G60 with a 20V AEB head...if that helps.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (squeeze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NefariousVW* »_
The 9A pistons are already clearanced for the 16v Head, is that going to interfere with clearancing for the 20v head?

Use the 9A pistons,just notch them for the #5 intake valve.Unfortunately most people dont have the answers to every single hybrid piston combination because most of us went with JE for our custom pistons.If your staying NA then I wouldnt bother going JE since the 9A pistons will fit the bill (& pocket) just fine.

_Quote, originally posted by *2bar b3 passat* »_what intake manifold is that ? that **** is sick

MTM -->Lehman --> Dhalback Racing.Whichever you want to call it.
Cost $1000US+

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_well, any word on if any stock alternator/serp setups will fit under the stock 20v intake mani?

Your talking about one of these?








If so then hit me up via IM for more details.


----------



## satchimo (Mar 7, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_

MTM -->Lehman --> Dhalback Racing.Whichever you want to call it.
Cost $1000US+


awesome piece. here it is in a skoda rally racer:


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Use the 9A pistons,just notch them for the #5 intake valve.Unfortunately most people dont have the answers to every single hybrid piston combination because most of us went with JE for our custom pistons.If your staying NA then I wouldnt bother going JE since the 9A pistons will fit the bill (& pocket) just fine.


One last question(i hope):
From what I've been able to find the only dimensional differences between the ABA block and 9A block are deck height and rod length.
Deck Height	236
Rod Length	159
Stroke	92.80
Rod Ratio	1.71
Bore/Stroke Ratio	0.89
Wrist Pin	20
Bore	82.50
Displacement	1984
C/R	10.5:1
Deck Height 220
Rod Length 144
Stroke 92.8
Rod Ratio 1.55
Bore/Stroke Ratio .89
Wrist Pin 20
Bore 1984
Displacement
C/R 10.2:1

With those differences do you see any problem with running 9A or ABF pistons in an ABA block using a 20v head? I want a minimum of 10:1 C/R. But with the need for reliefs in the pistons I don't see how I could gain C/R points by decking the head.
The reason I ask is because the ABA crank already has a 60-2 trigger wheel on the crank which, if I'm able to use it, would save me a lot of time by not having to fab a trigger wheel to work on the 9A crank.



_Modified by NefariousVW at 1:18 PM 2-9-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (NefariousVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NefariousVW* »_
With those differences do you see any problem with running 9A or ABF pistons in an ABA block using a 20v head? I want a minimum of 10:1 C/R. But with the need for reliefs in the pistons I don't see how I could gain C/R points by decking the head.

By simple reason,the ABF pistons have a Compression Height of 30.6mm to match the 159mm rods.The 9A pistons have a compression height of 29.6mm so putting them in the ABA block will cause the piston to be 1mm below the deck.I estimate the CR of 9A pistons in an ABA block would be ~ 9.8:1 (1 point less than the stock 9A).If you clearance the piston,It is not going to affect the CR drastically.
That being said if your looking for a minimum of 10:1 then I would try to find ABA pistons or just go nuts with 83.5mm JE pistons built to your specs.


----------



## NefariousVW (May 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_By simple reason,the ABF pistons have a Compression Height of 30.6mm to match the 159mm rods.The 9A pistons have a compression height of 29.6mm so putting them in the ABA block will cause the piston to be 1mm below the deck.I estimate the CR of 9A pistons in an ABA block would be ~ 9.8:1 (1 point less than the stock 9A).If you clearance the piston,It is not going to affect the CR drastically.
That being said if your looking for a minimum of 10:1 then I would try to find ABA pistons or just go nuts with 83.5mm JE pistons built to your specs.

Thanks for the quick respone. I've been chatting with vwpat all afternoon and think I might give the 2.8l 30V pistons a try.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (NefariousVW)*

I measured a compression height of 29.5 mm and a pin diameter of 21 mm. Even though it is ~ 1mm lower, not having a dish (and the slight "dome") will raise compression to ~10:1 for N/A applications. The rods look like ~157mm to me but I could not get a good measurement on them but they also have the 54 mm big end.
Edit: I rechecked the numbers and had not subtracted enough for the reduced compression height. That makes more sense.


_Modified by vwpat at 5:15 AM 2-11-2006_


----------



## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: (vwpat)*

If it does truely have a 29.5 comp height and a 21mm pin it would be the same compression (~9.6-8:1) as the 9A pistons with rods bushed to 20mm as that piston has the same comp height. That is, unless the 30v piston has a much larger then the 9A's 5cc dome.


_Modified by need_a_VR6 at 1:52 PM 2-10-2006_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (need_a_VR6)*

I realize that so that is why I am still a little puzzled. I have been using other peoples measurements (mainly here: http://home.wideopenwest.com/~johnbaas/ and satchimo's). I just need to put the piston on an ABA rod and see where it sits in the bore and get a measurement.
Edit: rechecked and it will be ~10:1, that makes more sense. I wanted a compression of ~11:1 (maybe the 3.0 pistons would give that, if I could find any) but looks like it will work for Nefarious.


_Modified by vwpat at 5:19 AM 2-11-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

The information in this 12







thread is invaluable. Thanks for collating this to all that contributed in Time, Research and experimentation. I have read through it once, but will probably give her a once around again.
I am the newest member of the AEB Club. I hope to be contributing to this thread in the upcoming weeks as I go through my build. I have a few things not in this thread up my sleeve, but here are the parts that I have (some are from prior directions...) followed by the general direction.
*Haves:*
- AEB Head Complete (pretty Low Miles)
- AEB Intake
- AEB COPs
- AEB CPS
- 1 OBD1 low Mileage OBD1 2L ABA Short Block with Converted Digi I dist etc.
- 1 OBDII Low Mileage 2L ABA Complete Long block with accessories and such
- '90 Corrado G60 Stage iV or so PG... Nicely running 
- LM1 and LMa3 Wideband
- Megasquirt completed (not installed yet)
- Lots of mental time invested...
- Extra G60 Head
- Audi 5k Intake
- 2L OBDII TB as mentioned above
- G60 STD and a G60 Auto TB
*The plan*
- G60 of course on either 68mm Pulley or stock for higher revs. I will probably try to acquire some RSr Timer Shaft bearings for piece of mind
- 2L+ Bottom End stock rebuilt using OBDI crank and rods and stud hardware.
- Custom JE Pistons (Have not set completely on CR yet but thinking about 9.5:1 or so...)- maybe 030" oversize or so, but maybe not
- AEB Head (80k Mi), To be Slightly ported and Polished (just because I can) and reseated stock valves. New seals and check of guides
- Some variation of a custom intake based off of the AEB. Not sure what until I start Mocking up on the stand. May include part of the AEB and the ABA OBDII or something totally different.
- Megasquirt MSnS -e on a V3 Board. Alternating Batch (2 banks) FI. I currently built for Dist Ign, but since I have almost everything, I may try to fab up some hybrid COPs Ignition. I have some tricks up my sleeve, but this may be a phase 2.
- 2L OBDII ABA Throttle Body using the Stepper IAC for Idle Control under MSnS-e
- Start At 42# Injectors @3bar, but may need to go up from there....
- LM1 Wideband tied into MSnS with LMa3
- Some custom SC Boost Control for the supercharger at part throttle. Either the Stock Butterfly Bypass custom using the 2L OBDII TB , which is what I am leaning toward. ...or something different.
- Custom Header (not positive here yet)
- Some trans, clutch and LSD to help put it to the ground
- Front Mount IC Single Pass Bar/Plate. 
- retaining A/C of course
I know this is more of a technical How To Thread, but I hope by me posting my direction, it may spawn some conversation or help others decide on components along the way,
Think that is it for now. Stay Tuned.
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 10:54 PM 2-11-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Just a quick one here... 
BBMs alternator relocation brakets will not clear the 20V head. That was my intention in the beginning so all I would have on the front of my engine was the charger.
The extended casting around the cam gear of the 20V head sticks out too far and hits the brakets and will not alow the alternator to be mounted. Now if you are not going to run a timing cover, and you dont mind hacking up the casting of the head you could remove the material that is just coveing the cam gear and it could work... but it seems kinda risky.
I can take pictures of the problem if needed while I still have the brakets around.

Next... my question....
Just started preassembly yesterday finally... confused on the cam/IM shaft gearing.
I am using pretty much a standard ABA setup on the bottom end, and will be running the engine on the distributor. This may be a stupid question and I may answer it myself once I measure everything out today but.... why is it necessary to change over all of the gears?
Why can you not run the ABA crank gear and IM gear and just use the 16V cam gear up top? Is a a ratio thing? Seems like it would eliminate alot of extra work. Also why are you using the 20V cam gear on the IM shaft when it has a different style tooth then the other gears?
Let me know if there is something dumb I missed, I will be taking alot of pictures and measurements today to add in to this topic, Things like gear comparisions and so on.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_but I hope by me posting my direction, it may spawn some conversation or help others decide on components along the way

Hey welcome,Well I am going to compile a list of parts that you should have in order to get this going assuming your not going with a distributor but instead using MS&S.This eliminates the need to modify the IM shaft to accept a 20V cam gear.So here goes a basic list:
* ABA Block
* ABA Crankshaft
* AEB Complete Head
* AEB Oil Pump
* AEB distributor hole block off (9A/PL will do fine)
* AEB Im Shaft
* AEB Oil filter flange
* G60 Stage IV Supercharger
* G60 Supercharger bracket
** 1. G60 Supercharger rear support bracket*
** 2. VR6 OBD-1 Throttle Body* (the bigger the better)
** 3. AEB Intake manifold*
** 4. ABA alternator*
* 16V Plug wires - forget COP's
* Waste Spark Coil - mount this where your distributor would be.
Now there are some matters your going to have to address such as:
*1.:*
The PG has a different oil filter flange than the ABA/AEB so your G60 rear support bracket is going to interfer with the oil filter flange.You take the rear bracket and cut off the plate that meets with the block so that only the actual support is left.Then get a crankcase block off plate for the ABA from Peter Tong or just make one yourself (took me 15 mins) and weld it to the remaining support bracket.This way you can now vent your crankcase as well as use the stock ABA/AEB oil filter flange.
*2. & 3 :*
Since your using the megasquirt then you wont need to rely on Digi-I's throttle switch so the bigger the throttle body the better and Personally I like the OBD-1 VR6 unit.Now your going to have to make a custom intake manifold since the stock AEB/AWP unit will not clear the G60 charger without getting chopped up.This creates an opportunity for you to silence the G60 at the same time just like how twinscrew20V did his.If your intent on using a stock 20V Intake manifold then you can always build another Supercharger bracket using an ABF alternator bracket and some time with a TIG welder so that your G60 can sit lower in the engine bay.
*4 :*
For the alternator you can either mount it under the G60 supercharger bracket or @ the back of the 20V head using BBM's alternator relocation kit.Whatever the case you have options. 

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_BBMs alternator relocation brakets will not clear the 20V head. That was my intention in the beginning so all I would have on the front of my engine was the charger.

I was under the impression that the bracket was universal to both 16V and 20V heads.Possible to cut and adapt the BBM unit like Volkspeed's?

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Why can you not run the ABA crank gear and IM gear and just use the 16V cam gear up top? Is a a ratio thing? Seems like it would eliminate alot of extra work. Also why are you using the 20V cam gear on the IM shaft when it has a different style tooth then the other gears?

Its pretty simple really.The ABA crankshaft gear is *square* toothed and has 22 teeth whereas the AEB crankshaft gear is *curvinlinear* toothed and has 26 teeth.In order to use the distributor,the IM shaft must have a gear on it that is double the # of teeth on the crank gear hence 52 teeth.In other words whatever gear you use on the camshaft,use on the IM shaft and make sure the crank gear has half the # of teeth.


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

So just so I have it straight, as long as the crank and IM are 1:2 and the IM and Cam is 1:1 they everything is ok for a distributor setup.
And the 16V and 20V use the same tooth where as the 8V is the odd one out.


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## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

Wouldn't this apply to a coilpack setup as well?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VTGTI337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
And the 16V and 20V use the same tooth where as the 8V is the odd one out.

Thats correct.

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_So just so I have it straight, as long as the crank and IM are 1:2 and the IM and Cam is 1:1 they everything is ok for a distributor setup.

Yes if your using a 16V crank gear then get 2 16V Cam gears,one for the camshaft and one for the IM shaft.The same applies for the 20V.You plan on running Digi-I?

_Quote, originally posted by *VTGTI337* »_Wouldn't this apply to a coilpack setup as well?

No,with a coil pack set up you only need to make sure you cam : crank ratio is 2:1.You wont be using a distributor so none of the IM shaft modification applies to you.


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Here are the pictures of the Alternator relocation bracket.
This is with it not even bolted all the way up and you can see there will be some problems. First an least important, on an ABA you will need to remove the little ear on the main seal cover as it will not allow the bracket to sit flush against the block. Next with the head in place it is not possible to bolt it up without modifiying either the bracket/head or both.
The bracket sits right up agains the head and still needs to move in further for the bolt holes to line up as they are.
You can see that if you either notched the bracket up top or removed some of the head casting it could be bolted up. But this puts the bracket very very close to the timing belt and would not allow a cover over the timing belt.
Now that is without even putting an alternator up on top of it....so I would assume there will be even more problems.
I tested it as well with an ADR exhaust manifold and it does touch the last runner as well... just another problem
















That being said, there are some options that could work with slight modifications and some time... it is a good start, it is just in no way a direct bolt on to a 2.0L 20V for those of you considering the option.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I am going to compile a list of parts that you should have in order to get this going assuming your not going with a distributor but instead using MS&S....


Since I don't currently have a 20V Intermediate Shaft or Oil pump, I will be putting and Dist in the hole regardless. I will likely use it for PhaseI. 
The beauty of MSnS-e is that you have endless options for Ign control and since the V3 board has built in Ign Driver(s) (single or multiple, i.e. wasted spark or COP) as well as a VR wheel decoder the options are endless. I already had the G60 Dist with the adapter ring and ABA gear already set so that is likely what will fly on Phase I. I will be "building a home grown" a COP direct fire ignition for PII (Details to follow).
Some Clarifications on parts list (most of which I already have):
* OBD1 ABA Block, Crankshaft, w/ modified IM Shaft Keyway, Oil Pump, Rods
* JE Custom Pistons (Still Need)
* AEB Complete Head with 20v Cam Gear
* TT distributor adapter for (digi 4 window Dist) converted with ABA Dist Gear
* Full G60 setup, etc
*1.:*
* *ABA* Oil filter flange
* Modified G60 Supercharger rear support bracket to clear Oil Filter mount (Already Completed)
* TT Breather Block off Plate (plan on creating a suitable Engine Breather system through this/these lower block locations)
* AEB Intake manifold
* 16v/20V Crank Gear
* ABA Modified Pulley
* CORRECT IM Shaft Gear for non AEB 20V (per Dustin)
* 153 T Belt
* 16v timing Belt Tensioner

*2. & 3:*
* one of every throttle Body made (8v and VR6) until I decide







The problem with OBD1 is that there is no facility built into it for IAC so you must use a dreaded PWM (i.e. ISV). I should have noted that the end result of this car will be that will be a front to back seamless management setup. That means A/C, Idle Air control, etc, etc because I like making things more difficult.
*NOTE:*You have peaked my interest though in possibly using the Vr6 pre G60. I need to do some research to all of the find pros and cons. I have no experience using a draw through TB on a supercharger so I need to research some questions that come to mind.
*4.:*
* Running PS, A/C so Alt will likely have to be mounted on back of head. Will be making custom mounts.
ordering some parts as we speak...
Shawn



_Modified by sdezego at 10:30 PM 2-15-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
That being said, there are some options that could work with slight modifications and some time... it is a good start, it is just in no way a direct bolt on to a 2.0L 20V for those of you considering the option.

I hate being grossly misinformed.Thanks for the correction Joe http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I will be "building a home grown" a COP direct fire ignition for PII (Details to follow).

Thats exactly what I did with my ABA 20V.What I made was a "bucket" that replaces the distributor cap so that I can have a 1-Window hall sensor which accompanied with the VR Sensor allows me to run Direct fire.I dont like the idea of COP's as they are prone to failure and I am part of the odd 0.01% that actually plans to use plug wires with my 20V head.

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
* Modified G60 Supercharger rear support bracket to clear Oil Filter mount (Already Completed)
* TT Breather Block off Plate (plan on creating a suitable Engine Breather system through this/these lower block locations)

Try building these 2 into 1.Cut off the plate off the support bracket and weld on the remainder of the rear support onto the TT breather plate.Not only does it clear the oil filter flange but it also seals the crankcase properly.

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
* Running PS, A/C so Alt will likely have to be mounted on back of head. Will be making custom mounts.

If you didnt run the AC this setup would have been ideal:










_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 4:47 AM 3-18-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Thats exactly what I did with my ABA 20V.What I made was a "bucket" that replaces the distributor cap so that I can have a 1-Window hall sensor which accompanied with the VR Sensor allows me to run Direct fire.I dont like the idea of COP's as they are prone to failure and I am part of the odd 0.01% that actually plans to use plug wires with my 20V head.








It's all about what you already have. If I had a set of coil packs or a full EDIS setup I would probably go wasted Spark. Dist w/Hall Pickup and MSnS-e full Ign control is the easiest and will be Phase I. Since I have the AEB COPs and all of the other items I will need, I plan on making them work on a custom setup.

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Try building these 2 into 1.Cut off the plate off the support bracket and weld on the remainder of the rear support onto the TT breather plate.Not only does it clear the oil filter flange but it also seals the crankcase properly.

Will do. When I got the ABA short a while back, it was already a hybrid PG so that was already done. I will def, take your advise to re-evaluate this. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
If you didnt run the AC this setup would have been ideal:
...

Tell me about it. In addition, if it weren't for A/C, I would be running the Rallye Golf Front Mount








Shawn


----------



## VTGTI337 (Aug 15, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

So with the 20V head having a piston bore of 81mm and the ABA block having a bore of 82.5mm, based on compression heights I'd want to use 9A pistons because of the 1mm difference and the matching bore diameter and bush the ABA rods to match the wirst pin diameter.. In which case ignore the 1.5mm bore difference between the 20V and 9A bore size? 
Also what about valve clearance can I just machine any clearance I want off of the pistons? (ie: any angle and/or any width as long as the valve clears the piston) 
Would it be an easier setup to just run stand alone with coil packs or use a dizzy with spark plugs? 
How is everybody mounting their spark plugs in the coilpack provisions?
Sorry for any questions that are dumb, I don't have my head or block here to look at and I've never really looked into the internals much...should be interesting, consider me the comic relief, haha.

edited for stupidity...


_Modified by VTGTI337 at 2:51 AM 2-19-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (VTGTI337)*

Found this in my endless internet searching.....








From BBM.... 16V IM gear for direct fit onto ABA IM shaft... $89
Seems like it will save alot of time and trouble at a reasonable price... going to pick one up very soon... will let you guys know how it turns out.
..... Question time..... Any reason to use the newer style timing tensioner over the old style ones... seems like just another part to worry about, I have both and was going to use the new one but now I think I am going to just stick with the standard roller.... input welcome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
PS: _Wiz_ I got the ABF bracket... just no time last week to work on the charger setup... hopefully will have pics up soon


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

Nice, i just picked up the Correct 20v one for transverse (will require the simple IM-shaft mod) from IMPEX and I think it was $59 and was the only supplier I could find that had it other than the dealer.
Also, Autotechparts.com had the best price by far on the crank gear and other stuff.
Stick with the Old Style 16V tensioner for sure. Been working for 100 years where the new style has caused bent valves








Shawn


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

N/A 2.0 20V setup for sale. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2463563


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (vwpat)*

Sneek Preview.....
















Had alittle time today to get the charger up and in position to take some measurments for bracketry. Tomorrow will hopefully be a productive day with some good results to show.
**Note it is just sitting in position... brackets on it now are just holding it in place to take measurements and decide on a final location and will not be used**


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Any reason to use the newer style timing tensioner over the old style ones... seems like just another part to worry about, I have both and was going to use the new one but now I think I am going to just stick with the standard roller.... input welcome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Stick with the old 16V Tensioner,no need to over complicate things when they old style tensioner has worked for years.

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
PS: _Wiz_ I got the ABF bracket... just no time last week to work on the charger setup... hopefully will have pics up soon

np,I also have the complete ABF setups for sale if anyone is interested.

_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_N/A 2.0 20V setup for sale. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2463563

Post some pictures of the items for sale.That should help speed up the sale. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Had alittle time today to get the charger up and in position to take some measurments for bracketry. Tomorrow will hopefully be a productive day with some good results to show.









Definately looks like buisness joe!I didnt know it was a vortech you were using.I allready have the SC pulley's for those made.Just gotta make sure the Crank : SC Pulley ratio between the VR6 and I-4 are _similar._


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Cool... Vortech does make their own cogged pullies with an 8mm pitch so they should intigrate right into your kits as an off the shelf part. Theirs are about $120 for the 35m wide or the 50mm wide.








Was planning on going right to the smallest 27 tooth to start since the motor will be built for it... just have to see how the charger likes it








According the the vortech site... and my quick measurements that should put me at 1/2 impeller speed of 26500 rpms right around 3600 on the tach, and full impeller capability 53000 rpms would be reached at 7200 rpms..... assuming no belt slip of course, that should yield a pretty nice amount of boost to work with from an average shift point upward (now if we can add a tooth or two off the crank at a later point in time







maybe we can get max speed down to around 5500-6000 rpms and see the first vortech put out full boost... and not on a VR








And again the plan is for a small amount of nitrous injection in the lower rpm ranges to speed things along when needed 

_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 8:32 AM 2-24-2006_


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 8:35 AM 2-24-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Cool... Vortech does make their own cogged pullies with an 8mm pitch so they should intigrate right into your kits as an off the shelf part. Theirs are about $120 for the 35m wide or the 50mm wide.









I wanted to have belts made in Germany...call me an OEM junkie








I was going to design the gears to have an HTD Tooth design instead GT2 but Gates didnt make a wide range of HTD belts so I went ahead and designed them to have the GT2 teeth.That being said if you can find an HTD belt Ill start working on the drawings tonight.From the looks of it you will only need : 
* 28 tooth - 35mm Cogged pulley
* Alternator Pulley
* Crankshaft Accessory Pulley
The belt can run on the outside of the water pump pulley.Works for the VR6 so it will work for you


----------



## TomRitt (Oct 10, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

I have a ton of aeb parts if anybody needs any. I need to make some cash so looks like I'll hafta sell my collection. I got
1 aeb manual crank
2 aeb auto cranks
1 aeb crank pulley/gear/dampener
1 aeb head (I'm going to keep it unless I get $700 for it)
1 aph polished passenger side intake mani
1 aeb oil pump
3 aeb alt/power steering brackets
1 aeb oil pan
1 transverse 1.8t 20v oil filter bracket
1 longitudal aeb oil filter bracket
1 aeb valve cover
1 20v valve cover with breather fitting
1 aeb exhaust manifold
1 aeb intermdiate shaft pulley
1 set of good aeb pistons
2 sets of good aeb rods
3 aeb oil coolers
1 aeb stock oil feed
2 aeb waterpumps
some emissions breather stuff


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

There must be some bad information looming around this thread or something.
The Prelude Timing belt (155T) will not work on an ABA/AEB using the following with out some alternate modification:
- 16v Crank Gear
- AEB cam Gear on Cam
- transverse 20v Gear on IM shaft
- 16v tensioner.
There appears that there is no way this will work w/o at least maybe a 158T+ belt or something. Maybe I need to redrill the hole in the tensioner for more of an offset (if there is room) or maybe I should have been using the early Style AEB roller.
Also, the Prelude belt is *Curvilinear* Tooth and not *trapezoidal*. The pitch looks to be the same so maybe it could work but does not look right to me... What gives?
Shawn


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Ok... so I get my BBM IM gear today... well to my surprise it is smaller then the 16V or 20V gears... 
So I check it out and here is what I discover. The 16V and 20V cam and IM gears are 52 teeth, making them an equal 1:1 ratio. The BBM gear is 43 teeth... which I was confused about until I counted my ABA gear, 43 teeth.
In theory now this should be the correct size gear then to keep the ABA pump spinning at the same speed as it originally was. But now the cam and IM are not spinning 1:1, it is more like 1.2:1
Does this mean that modding a 16V or 20V gear to put on the ABA IM will result in a lower oil pump pressure due to a slower rotation then as well since it is being underdriven at 53 teeth?
So what do you guys think... I know it is already going to cause a belt issue because it is a good amount smaller in overall size as well... maybe the 16V belt will fit?
Going to contact BBM to see what they say, but figured I would post up my situation in here as well... since I made reference to the part above and dont want anyone else to have a problem if there is one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 3:51 PM 3-2-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

What you have witnessed is the exact reason why there is so much ambiguous information in this thread with Belts. Ironically, you will have less of a Belt size problem with that Pulley, but may have issues on other areas.
So, you have a problem of sorts. Yes, the Stock ABA IM shaft Pulley is 44T (not 43T as you have a typo), but also remember that the IM shaft Ratio has no effect on the ratio to the Cam or Vice Versus. You need to think of Ratios to the Crank (i.e. Cam to Crank and IM to Crank). Each should be 2:1 if you are running a Dist and want your stock ABA Oil pump running at it's normal Speed. This is because the 8V Crank Gear != the 16V Crank Gear. Count the Teeth.
If you divide the 16v *cam* gear teeth by the 16v crank gear teeth and the ABA IM Gear (Or ABA Cam Gear) by the ABA 8V Crank Gear, you will see that they all are both 2:1. When you mix match them, you are in for issues.
The larger IM shaft gear is the exact reason that I am having Belt Issues. I have the correct one that I need and shoudl be using though. The longest usable one you can find is the Early AEB @ 153T and it is waaaay to short. The Prelude is even too Short not to mention the fact that it is Curvilinear III and NOT Curvilinear II. Curve(II) should be used to properly mesh with the VW gears. I don't care who is running it and says it fits. It is not the 100% right thing to do IMO.
I am very close to having all of the belt issues straigntened out for an ABA, AEB Dist with the correct Gears and the Correct tooth profile.
I am now glad I ordered a 20v transverse Cam gear for my intermediate shaft as I didn;t even think to look at the # of teeth on BBM's. The IM Shaft mod was very simple. 
*EDIT* If you are not running a Dist, then you should be ok with what you have.
Shawn
*EDIT* Additional Clarification:
Crank gears
- 8v Crank Gears = 22T
- 16v/20V Crank Gears = 26T
- 8V IM = 8v Cam Gears = 44T
- 16v\20V Cam Gears = 52T (not 53 as you have a typo)
16v\20v IM Gears = (IDK, but they are < 52T) which means the Oil Pump will run raster and so will a Dist if you try to run one in a mixed matched config (i.e. ABA IM Shaft with 16V IM gear)



_Modified by sdezego at 5:06 PM 3-2-2006_


----------



## Boomdaddymack (Jun 19, 2002)

*Re: (rallye driver)*

very good info


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Boomdaddymack)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Boomdaddymack* »_very good info

Welcome,got any to share?









_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
So I check it out and here is what I discover. The 16V and 20V cam and IM gears are 52 teeth, making them an equal 1:1 ratio. The BBM gear is 43 teeth... which I was confused about until I counted my ABA gear, 43 teeth.

ABA gear is 44 teeth,not 43.
I am just going to wait for Autotech to produce there 9A gears.The camshaft & IM shaft gear will work back on AEB 20V Heads and will spin @ a 1:2 ratio (cam: crank)


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

uh-oh, this doesn't sound good for me...running dist
I guess that I'm gonna be counting teeth tonight!
Let me get this straight: 1:1 between cam and IM?
I'm using a 16V crank gear, 20V cam and my IM looks (as far as I remember) around the same size as the cam gear. I got the part # from one of the earlier posts. Can't remember exactly.

thx,
jkm


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (squeeze)*

Correct. You wan't you Dist fire to be in sync with your fuel (i.e. IM to Cam).
if you got the Transverse Cam gear for the 20v that Dustin posted earlier than you have the correct one. Same # of teeth as your cam gear.
Correct Transverse 20v Cam gear for the Intermediate Shaft is # is 06B 109 111 (I got mine from IMPEX)
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 1:56 PM 3-8-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Alright... well here comes the belt issues...
Finally got my new gears all in... I am running a 16V/20V adjustable cam gear (same size as stock 52T). Stock 16V crank gear 26T, and a BBM IM gear 43T (same as stock 16V IM gear).
This is the smallest setup teethwise you can run, this puts the crank to cam in correct timing and disregards the IM shaft using it only to drive the ABA oil pump and no longer used for a distributor (otherwise you would need another 52T gear (16V, 20V cam or 20V IM) to have the IM shaft still run the ABA distributor at a 2:1 ratio.
Here comes the problem... Early AEB timing belt 152T is definately too short, it doent even fit without the tensioner on it, just running it over the stud. I dont think the Prelude at 155T is going to cut it either.
Looks like I am off to NAPA to search through the belt books and see what I can find in a longer length... also contacting Race101 to see what they ran on there ABA/AEB

















_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 11:29 AM 3-9-2006_

_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 3:25 PM 3-9-2006_


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 7:36 AM 3-10-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Finally got my new gears all in... I am running a 16V/20V adjustable cam gear (same size as stock 52T). Stock 16V crank gear *26T*, and a BBM IM gear 43T (same as stock 16V IM gear).

Fixed,supposed to be 26T 

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Here comes the problem... Early AEB timing belt 152T is definately too short, it doent even fit without the tensioner on it, just running it over the stud. I dont think the Prelude at 155T is going to cut it either.

This is wierd,you sure thats an AEB belt?


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Sorry.. fixed the typo as well...
Yes the belt is definately the 152T AEB belt... even went to NAPA to check as well as check the PN on it.
I cut it open (good use of a brand new belt) and pieced part of a 16V one into it to get the total length needed. I get 156T will be pretty tight, 157T should be perfect, and 158-159T should still be in the range of what the tensioner will take up the slack from. Belt length should be about 1245-1250mm
It looks like atleast contitech has a belt that should work, but I am waiting to hear back from the guys at Race 101 before I get anything else, atleast for now.
This is for the taller ABA block swap.... the PGs and 9As might get by with the 153 passat belt of that 155 prelude (which I asked for at NAPA and got a much shorter belt with a slightly different tooth, so I dont know if that is the correct info as well)
*** Anyone trying to run the ABA distributor will definately be the the 160T + belt length with the larger gear on the IM shaft as well***


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 7:45 AM 3-10-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

Congrats, You have discovered what I was eluding a few posts ago.
Yes, this is a big problem. Not becuase you need to figure the correct length, but rather to actually find a source for any belt from 158-160T that is Curvilinear II. CII is more of a trapezoildal belt, FYI. The Honda and Isuzu belts mentioned are all Curvilinear III which is a complete round profile tooth. They all have an 8mm pitch wihich means the tooth spacing is the same and could be used, but it will not produce a perfect mesh and it is not the right thing to do. This will put undue stress on parts of the tooth that the belt was not designed for. If you change your belt very frequently, you might be able to get away with it, but I will only do so at complete last resort...
The Fiat Belt mentioned earlier, looks like it could be the perfect belt (Still researching to be sure to make sure it is CII), but it is not available in the states so I am not sure it will do us any good unless we can get someone from Europe to send up a few of them. I am trying to source a different brand but it looks like it is from a Fiat Bravia ('96 16v 1.6L iirc). I am out of town, so I don't have all of the specs in front of me.
I measured it out and the 159 T Would be perrfect for (AEB, ABA, with the cam and IM at 1:2 to the crank with the 16V Crank gear), but I can make the 158 or 160 work with little or no mods. There is a 162T belt that is CII, but that will be tooo long.
Shawn

_Modified by sdezego at 1:40 AM 3-11-2006_


_Modified by sdezego at 11:11 PM 3-11-2006_


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Is the cam sprocket in the same place on the 20V head as the 16V?
16V aba with old 16V tensioner and 9a Int. shaft and cog used 151 tooth... tight enough fit to where the tensioner didn't have to be adjusted from the most loose position.


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (jwatts)*

20V head is higher then the 16V... so it needs to be a longer belt


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

Just some of my working notes:
*Edit*: You can check complete belt specs off via http://www.napaautoparts.com. Put in the Gates PN or the Napa PN on the left side. Napa Gates belt #'s preface with a 250. So a T169 Gates number would be a 250169 Napa #
AEB/ABA
26T Crank Gear
52T Cam and Intermediate Gear
16v Tesioner
*Correct Specs:*
- 8mm Tooth Pitch
- Curvilinear II Tooth profile
- 25mm Width (24mm would work as it is another common width)
- I Measured 1273 mm correct length w/o Head gasket (i.e. 159T)

*Belt Lengths = (#Teeth x 8mm)*
- 153T = 1224 - (Early AEB w/o updated Tensioner) Gates#T317/Napa# 250317)
- 155T = 1240
- 158T = 1264
- 159T = 1272
- 160T = 1280
- 161T = 1288
- 162T = 1296
- 163T = 1304
* '96 Fiat Brava 1.6L 16v Engine Code AH, 158Tx8mmx25mm CurvII?? (Still verifying Tooth profile and it's availability in the States. So far this one has the most promise as It was previously stated having the same tooth profile as VW) - Gates# 5432xs, Conti CT879 or 6502292 or TB471, Goodyear 61309, Dayco 94588.
1588cc '91 Isuzu Stylus - 159Tx8mmx25mm *BUT is Curvilinear III as Honda Belts)* - Gates T169
1809cc '92 Isuzu Impulse, Stylus 16v 163Tx25mmx8mm CurvII Gates # T205, Napa 250205 (correct Belt but will be way too long unless a second tenstioner is fabbed)
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 10:16 AM 3-12-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_20V head is higher then the 16V... so it needs to be a longer belt








...The belt I used worked fine.Could it be because of the IM shaft pulley?The ABF timing belt is 151 teeth as confirmed by Rodney Huss and I didnt recall having issues with mine.
Confirm which belt works and state which IM shaft gear you used.Ill add it to the First page when the information is clarified because this is not making any sense.


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I used the 152T AEB belt, there is also a 150T, and a 153T AEB belt... but mine was the 152T.
I used the BBM IM gear, which is a 16V IM gear. It is 43T. It is just a stock 16V gear that is modded to fit the ABA shaft and is the smallest IM gear out there that I know of. (this is only good for turning the oil pump since there is no longer a 2:1 ratio to drive a distributor)
The belt with this setup on an ABA/AEB does not even come close to fitting I cannot even bet it on the gears with no tensioner in place at all as seen in the pictures.
I believe you would be fine with a PG or 9A/3A block since they are 15mm shorter for a total of 30mm less distance for the belt to stretch.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
I believe you would be fine with a PG or 9A/3A block since they are 15mm shorter for a total of 30mm less distance for the belt to stretch.

Actually, you must understand that the difference is a bit more than just the deck height difference from the PG to the ABA.
Since the Tensioner forms a Triangle to the upper and lower gears the distance to the tensioners and such is a bit greater. You would need to take estimate right triangles and then compute the difference in the hypotenuse from the differences in IM gears and the distance from the Crank gear to the tensioner, blaaa blaaa blaaa. I am not going to do this becuase it is not necessary, since I measured the required Belt length.
FYI: 15mmx2 = 30mm due to Height Difference = 30mm/8mm Pitch = 3.75 Teeth in the belt alone neglecting the above. Stock Early AEB is 153T + 3.75 ~= 157T. With the true differences, you can easily see how you would need a 159 or 160T belt (less with the 43T IM pulley)
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 10:28 PM 3-12-2006_


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## DutchcaribbeanGTI (Dec 7, 2000)

*Re: (sdezego)*

I am looking at my options for doing the aba 2.0/20v, but have some Q's
I already have my full aba 2.0T running on digi-1. If I do this conversions what type of fuel injectors should I use? Will my 42lbs injectors fit in the AEB intake manifold?
What other cylinder heads have the large ports(codes please). Is their a difference between NA 20V heads and the 20V T heads.
I can source NA 20V heads from SEAT and VW from Holland/localy.
As for sparkplug wires, would 16v wires reach the distributer in the block.
Would the intake manifold from the AEB interfer with the stock ABA alternator?
Last Q will a 16v valve cover bolt to any of the 20v cylinder heads.


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## DanSycks (Aug 30, 2005)

Bump for some great stuff. I just wish I had the ability to build one of these to put into a Mk1. Anyone wanna build me one? =-)


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## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it...*

well guys i have some questions for you. I have read this post so many times and i hope some can break it down for me. Well I have a PG block with stock pistons/rod but will be changing those out with 1.8t awm pistons/rods which i recvd complete with the block and head. 
1) if i need to replace the rod bearing, will the g60 ones work(i have a brandnew set). 
2) crank shaft- can i use the one from the 1.8t awm block or i should stick with my old one. 
3)16v cam gear will replace the stock 1.8t cam gear if i am correct. 
4) The PG IM shaft needs to be modded to take the 1.8t cam?- but according to some pics, it states that the pattern on the cams are diff from that of a 8v. so does that mean that the 16v and 20v cam gears have the same pattern of teeth. 
5) will i keep my isv valve. 
6) what extra ABA or AEB acc are needed for the turbo setup. 
7) Which Alternator/Accessories will i need. 
8) which throttle body will i use?(can 1.8t work) if so how about the g60 full throttle and idle switch. 
9) where can i obtain the seals and gasket for a complete lower end rebuild.
That all i could came up with at this point but if you have any thing to add pls do so.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_I used the 152T AEB belt, there is also a 150T, and a 153T AEB belt... but mine was the 152T.

Ok well confirm on the 156T timing belt and I will add it to the mainpage.I will take pictures of my belt setup later on tonight.

_Quote, originally posted by *DutchcaribbeanGTI* »_
I already have my full aba 2.0T running on digi-1. If I do this conversions what type of fuel injectors should I use? Will my 42lbs injectors fit in the AEB intake manifold?.

Yes they will.

_Quote, originally posted by *DutchcaribbeanGTI* »_
What other cylinder heads have the large ports(codes please). Is their a difference between NA 20V heads and the 20V T heads..

Large port cylinder heads came in early 1.8T DBC GTi's,Audi TT's and various Seat's/Skoda's.My GTi in Barbados has a large port cylinder head so I am sure Curacao got them as well.

_Quote, originally posted by *DutchcaribbeanGTI* »_
I can source NA 20V heads from SEAT and VW from Holland/localy..

Holland would be the most economically solution as I am sure locally they will want an arm and a leg.

_Quote, originally posted by *DutchcaribbeanGTI* »_
As for sparkplug wires, would 16v wires reach the distributer in the block..

Yes.Just make sure your distributor is @ a 1:1 ratio with the camshaft and a 1:2 ratio with the crankshaft.

_Quote, originally posted by *DutchcaribbeanGTI* »_
Would the intake manifold from the AEB interfer with the stock ABA alternator?.

Not that I know of.If your really worried about the manifold interferring with the alternator then you can always check out my ABF alternator set ups for sale.

_Quote, originally posted by *DutchcaribbeanGTI* »_
Last Q will a 16v valve cover bolt to any of the 20v cylinder heads.

Sadly no as the 16V Valve cover is just ugly...








On another note,tonight I was wondering why more guys out there are not building 20V G60's.Is it because a kit isnt available?Suppose a kit did become available,would people be into it?

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
1) if i need to replace the rod bearing, will the g60 ones work(i have a brandnew set).
 
Yup they will work.Once they are made for 48mm rod journals

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
2) crank shaft- can i use the one from the 1.8t awm block or i should stick with my old one.
 
Stick with the PG as it is forged whereas the AWM is cast.

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
3)16v cam gear will replace the stock 1.8t cam gear if i am correct.

Yes if you plan on using the AEB/9A Cam gear on the IM shaft. 

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
4) The PG IM shaft needs to be modded to take the 1.8t cam?- but according to some pics, it states that the pattern on the cams are diff from that of a 8v. so does that mean that the 16v and 20v cam gears have the same pattern of teeth.

16V/20V have different pattern of teeth.Your going to have to modify your IM shaft to accept an external water pump 20V Camshaft gear. 

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
5) will i keep my isv valve.
 
Depends on what control system you use.If you stick with Digi-I then yes.

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
6) what extra ABA or AEB acc are needed for the turbo setup
7) Which Alternator/Accessories will i need. 

Use whichever accessories you want.*I have some ABF alternator set ups that* will work with a stock ABA power steering pump.

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
8) which throttle body will i use?(can 1.8t work) if so how about the g60 full throttle and idle switch.
 
Depends on the intake manifold your using,whatever the case you can adapt any OBD-1 throttle body to accept the idle switch.

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
9) where can i obtain the seals and gasket for a complete lower end rebuild.

Contact Rodney Huss (rhussjr) on here for all your replacement parts.


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Figured I would throw this in here.....
Tracked down a place to get early MK3 TD crank pullies, from what I understand they have the proper offest to run ABA accessories with the wider 16V timing gears. So pretty much the same as the BBM or Futrell Hybrid units, but an OEM part and it has the built in vibration dampener that the two billet aluminum units do not. It will bolt right up to the 16V crank gear, and has secondary holes to mount a V belt pulley as well if needed for PS.
I have one on the way, I will post a picture and more info once I recieve it and take all the measurements.
** They are also supposed to be a slightly larger diameter then the ABA or G60 pulley, which is good for anyone else going supercharge on one of these setups


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

Almost forgot.... working with Continental on the timing belt... still waiting for a definate answer on sizes available with the proper tooth


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

What # teeth are you looking at? 156T? Becuase you have the small IM pulley, I was just curious. 156T would be too short for use with the AEB, ABA and 52T IM pulley.
I am still trying to source and get verification on the Numebrs that I have for suitable belts @ 158-159T. Again, make sure the belt is Curvilinear II. IM me if you are interested in the numbers I am searching. I have a number for just about every brand, but need verification first that they are the correct specs (Pretty sure they are) and then finding a source in the states.
I was wondering about a Pulley that would be usable w/o Modiication. And I want the harmonic Dampener for sure I have an ABA, but have not modified it yet and would be interested in the Diam specs of the Mk3.
Thanks,
Shawn


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

One more thing. What Header/manifold is that in the pic above? Did you make, buy, etc? I am assuming that the ADR (? Code for N/A 20v) is cast, but that is just an assumption on my part.
Looks interesting.
Shawn


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

I was looking for a 158T, from what I figured that would be a little loose but the tensioner would take up the slack. (156T would fit mine exact with no slack and the tensioner all the way loose) I told the guy at contitech to send me a list of what sizes they would have on both sides of 158T if they come up with the proper belt. I gave him all the info for what we need and the Passat 1.8T belt information as a reference as well.
The exhaust manifold is an ADR from a Golf or Jetta, PN 06A 253 031 E It will mount to an ABA or 16V downpipe.
The diesel crank pulley is on its way officially and I should have it early next week. I will take all of the measurements and let you know but I am 99% sure it will be a direct fit with no issues and no modifications needed to run the ABA accessories with the 16V/20V timing gears behind them.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
The exhaust manifold is an ADR from a Golf or Jetta, PN 06A 253 031 E It will mount to an ABA or 16V downpipe.

Right part #,wrong engine code.ADR is the Naturally Aspirated Audi A4.The engine code your looking for is *AGN* which is the Naturally Aspirated Audi A3/VW Golf.
To me it would be cheaper to build your own rather than importing one as they are getting EXPENSIVE to source now and I am sure a nice 4 into 1 unit from a 
A header like this would be more fitting in the price department...


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
A header like this would be more fitting in the price department...

How so? What price are you thinking a header like that goes for?
Also, I will be running a Cat, so a long tube header is not an option. Plus long tubes like that one are prone to crack becuase the flex joints are to far down the line. I have personal experience with that. I have seen some with flex joints in the down tubes though, and they are nice.
Again, i may make a jig and make my own as I have a ss Flange already. Time is money though.
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 9:14 AM 3-23-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Almost there on the belts... 
ContiTech has the followin available, 
155T, 157T, 158T, 160T, 162T ( these should cover most of what people are building)
The good news is that they have what seem to be fitting belt lengths and the proper curvilinear tooth pattern at S8M, their standard 8mm pitch belt...... the bad news is that the belts only appear to come in either a 20mm or 30mm width, I have contacted them again to see if they advise cutting down a 30mm to 25mm, or if infact there is a 25mm available since they do make or atleast sell them for the standard size 1.8T setup.
Next stop to find a shop that cuts down belts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 88_8vturbo (Aug 3, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

I want to put a 20v head on an "RV" 1.8 8v block. And go naturally aspirated.
Any differences between this and the G60 swap besides the obvious?
Will different internalsbe required like in the G60 apps? Yes, I am aware there is an FAQ, and no, it doesnt pertain to my application.
Thanks Guys. 
Nick


----------



## DutchcaribbeanGTI (Dec 7, 2000)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Almost there on the belts... 
ContiTech has the followin available, 
155T, 157T, 158T, 160T, 162T ( these should cover most of what people are building)
The good news is that they have what seem to be fitting belt lengths and the proper curvilinear tooth pattern at S8M, their standard 8mm pitch belt...... the bad news is that the belts only appear to come in either a 20mm or 30mm width, I have contacted them again to see if they advise cutting down a 30mm to 25mm, or if infact there is a 25mm available since they do make or atleast sell them for the standard size 1.8T setup.
Next stop to find a shop that cuts down belts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Found a partnumber for the 162T 25mm timing belt.
Part number: CT 832
http://www.contitech.de/ct/con...w.pdf
To download the catalog


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (DutchcaribbeanGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
How so? What price are you thinking a header like that goes for?

~$350US

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Also, I will be running a Cat, so a long tube header is not an option. Plus long tubes like that one are prone to crack becuase the flex joints are to far down the line.

If the fabricator is respectable then I am sure he will offer some sort of warranty if it cracks.

_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
155T, 157T, 158T, 160T, 162T ( these should cover most of what people are building)

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .I still dont understand why my belt worked and yours did not.









_Quote, originally posted by *88_8vturbo* »_I want to put a 20v head on an "RV" 1.8 8v block. And go naturally aspirated.

To go NA you will want a CR of around 10:1 (more if your feeling like a hero).This is not achieveable with either the RV or PG internals.You can use the PG block as it has oil squirters but I would look into getting custom pistons from JE.If financially JE pistons are not an option then:
* machine a relief for the #5 into a 16V PL piston
* purchase a set of stock AGN/ADR pistons as vwpat pounted out


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .I still dont understand why my belt worked and yours did not.










I dont know either, but after about a week of emailing and phone calls I have finally gotten from Contitech dirctly to a whole sale distributor of their belts, to a distributor in my state that stocks their belts.... to a local distributor that is supposed to stock the 158T and be able to cut it to any width needed.
I am contacting them today to see if infact they have any idea what I am talking about and can get me these belts







Who would have thought this would be the hardest part to source
On an up note, my head arrives monday, the diesel pulley will be here wednesday for measurements, and I just got my raceware headstuds yesterday http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Looks like it will be time to get to the machine shop pretty soon and get finished up


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (DutchcaribbeanGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DutchcaribbeanGTI* »_Found a partnumber for the 162T 25mm timing belt.
Part number: CT 832
http://www.contitech.de/ct/con...w.pdf
To download the catalog

Yep, i I think that have that one, but 162 is going to be way to long to be usable. I will double check though on my mock up. There is also a 163T Gates T205 but that is 1304mm length. Ideal for AEB/ABA is ~1273mm


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

I have a 158T ordered and on the way... should be here wed/thurs next week... it measures in at 1264mm.
They can get 2 kinds a standard and an HD, price was about $10 different, I got the standard to test fit, I believe the next one up they could get was a 160T at 1280mm which I think will be too long.
Anyway, there is no problem getting more of them if in fact it is the proper length, pitch, and tooth.... which I am pretty sure it is, but dont want to jump ahead until it is in my hands and fitted on the engine. I dont think the price will be much less, but I did say I would be needing to place an order for a few of them provided the test fit went well and it is not an issue, the place is actually local to me so getting them is no big deal now that they have been located.... I ended up having to source them from in industrial roller and chain supply depot. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Joe check this out from West coast Canada...
*Interesting belt set up,wonder where we saw this before*..










p.s. sdezego if you need am AGN manifold pm me. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Interesting... but it is still spinning the water pump backwards.... which we havent really cleared up yet


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey, the pic in the linky the same motor! It's mine!
Made a post re the water pump in the MkII forum....

Justin


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

I am just about to start this setup. but still confused with a few things and i must say i am very sorry:
I will be using a pg(g60) block but it seems like other are using another block for this conversion. What i and confused about is the im shaft and the cam shaft gears. i picked up a 16v crank pulley and the cam shaft gear. I still have my stock 1.8t cam gear from a awm motor if that makes a diff. My question is this: were does the 16v cam gear go and were does the 1.8t cam go. from what i am reading it seem that one goes on the im shaft and another goes on the cam. but which on goes were? pls help


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

ok, so running a dizzy...
16v CAM gear on IM shaft, AND cam gear

running w/out a dizzy...
16v cam gear, and 16v IM gear in appropriate places.
correct?

Also, i've been searching through this timing belt stuff, and i still cannot figure it out. There seems to be a lot of question, as well as all of the PG and ABA information is mixed together. if someone is willing to send me all the information we have about this, i will divide it up between the numerous engine possibilities and post it in a more readable and understandable format so there is less confusion.

Also, i purchased the h22 timing belt(honda curv3) that someone on here used(scirocco20v?) and it does NOT fit wiht 16v cam gear, 16v im gear, and 16v timign gear. It fits on all the gears, but i cannot squeeze the tensioner into the equation.... so lets figure out all the info needed for timing belts on each block, and each(dizzy, and dizzyless) setups....
Has anyone come across a working timing belt for the ABA/AEB w/16v parts?

and...... just a little preview of where I'm at.























-- i figure its time I contribute to this thread, because i've been following it for the past 6 mos, and its gotten me this far


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_Hey, the pic in the linky the same motor! It's mine!

Nice,well stick around and add to the thread.Dont just take...








Project looks well sorted http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .
Hopefully Joe and I can resolve the water pump issue or as I was telling Jay,do this:









_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_What i and confused about is the im shaft and the cam shaft gears. i picked up a 16v crank pulley and the cam shaft gear. I still have my stock 1.8t cam gear from a awm motor if that makes a diff.
 
AWM Motor has a different Offset camshaft gear than the 16V/AEB 20V because it is internal water pump.If your using the PG or any external water pump block,the AWM gear will not work.

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_
were does the 16v cam gear go and were does the 1.8t cam go. from what i am reading it seem that one goes on the im shaft and another goes on the cam.

Since your using the PG bottom end and I would assume the block mounted distributor,then the 16V camgear goes on both the camshaft as well as the IM shaft.If your not using the block mounted distributor then simply leave the 9A/PL IM shaft gear attached to the IM shaft.
The AWM camshaft gear is nothing more than a paper weight at this point.

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_so running a dizzy...
16v CAM gear on IM shaft, AND cam gear

Thats correct.Remember the distributor and Camshaft both need to spin @ a 1:2 ratio to the crankshaft pulley.So in this case:
* 16V Crankshaft timing belt gear
* 16V Camshaft Gear 
* 16V Camshaft gear pressed onto IM shaft.

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
running w/out a dizzy...
16v cam gear, and 16v IM gear in appropriate places.

If your not running a distributor in the block then just make sure your camshaft : crankshaft ratio is still 1:2 and to do this you just need to the 16V camshaft gear.Leave whatever gear is on the IM shaft.

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
Also, i've been searching through this timing belt stuff, and i still cannot figure it out. There seems to be a lot of question, as well as all of the PG and ABA information is mixed together. if someone is willing to send me all the information we have about this, i will divide it up between the numerous engine possibilities and post it in a more readable and understandable format so there is less confusion.

The confusion seems to be steming from choice of block & IM shaft pulley.I used the AEB timing belt ,16V camshaft pulley & 16V tensioner on a 9A-AEB I have here and it worked fine.
Right now I am working on the ABA 20V with a block mounted distributor so thats going to need the long belt which I have been unable to confirm in terms of fitment size.

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
Also, i purchased the h22 timing belt(honda curv3) that someone on here used(scirocco20v?) and it does NOT fit wiht 16v cam gear, 16v im gear, and 16v timign gear.

But you can see Dustin's set up on Page 7 where you can see the Prelude belt slotting into the gears just fine.








Whatever the case,lets get all the information sorted so that I can add it to the front page.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
But you can see Dustin's set up on Page 7 where you can see the Prelude belt slotting into the gears just fine.










no no, it slots into them fine... it'll work that way, but its not long enough. Thats the problem, This is my last hump until i can start installing the megasquirt and EDIS, and i'm hyped to figure it out.

So, anyone running ABA/AEB WITHOUT a dizzy. Thats 16v cam gear, 16v IM gear, and 16v crank gear, w/16v tensioner, and get a belt to work?


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
Also, i've been searching through this timing belt stuff, and i still cannot figure it out. There seems to be a lot of question, as well as all of the PG and ABA information is mixed together. if someone is willing to send me all the information we have about this, i will divide it up between the numerous engine possibilities and post it in a more readable and understandable format so there is less confusion.
Has anyone come across a working timing belt for the ABA/AEB w/16v parts?



I am working on a complete list right now... will be for ABA, 9A, and PG with assorted options
I am also expecting my 158T belt to arrrive tomorrow (which should be correct for an ABA/AEB setup). Once I confirm the length and correct tooth pattern I will post up the available size through the distributor I located and costs.... but not until everything is confirmed.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

excellent. Good Man.
Your'e running dizzy-less right?


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (haenszel)*

Yes, but I am working out belt lengths for dizzy or no dizzy for both engine types... hopefully


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

EDITED and merged some threads to clean things up.

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_excellent. Good Man.
Your'e running dizzy-less right?


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
That is why your belt is too Short. you have the 52T IM Shaft Gear which is correct for running a Dizzy.
Shawn



_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_For sh:tz and Giggles, I ordered the Isuzu Belt (Curv III) and 159T 
I will throw it on tonight to positively identify the length with what I measured using the 52T IM gear for Dizzy. I will see what leeway we have (i.e. 158 or 160T).
Shawn

*It is confirmed that 159T is perfect for:*
- ABA
- AEB
- 16v Tensioner
- 16v/20v Crank Gear (26T)
- 52 T Cam Gear
- 52 T Intermediate Shaft Gear (From Transverse 20v Cam sprocket - Needed to run a Dizzy)

_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_any part #'s on that belt?

Yep, it was posted earlier, but here it is again:
- 159T, **Curv III, 25mm Width and 8mm Pitch
--- Gates T169
--- Napa 250169
--- Dayco 92169
from 1588 cc Isuzu Stylus 89-91 16v
***AGAIN: this belt is Curvilinear III which has a more rounded tooth profile as opposed to the correct Tooth which is Curvilinear II which is more trap.*
I would wait to see how Joe makes out with the correct Tooth profile. The funny thing is this belt was only $18








Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 10:02 AM 3-31-2006_


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

any part #'s on that belt?
EDIT: You're running a dizzy, on a larger gear, so dizzy-less would need a shorter belt?


_Modified by haenszel at 10:41 PM 3-28-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Some more info in case anyone is in need (These were either the cheapest places I could find for Quality Parts and or the only supplier that had them out of many) 
...and a couple of Questions below.
D --- Cam Bearing Cap Bolts (AEB - has like 32 of them)	058-103-460-C
D --- Crank Bolt ('87 16V Scirocco)	N-100-890-01
D --- Transverse Water Head Flange	06A-121-12-Q
ATP - Timing Belt Tensioner 027 109 243
ATP - Crank Gear 027 105 263B
ATP - HeadGasket 037 103 383N
I ---- Intermediate Gear 06B 109 111
DIY - Head Bolts x10 058 103 385BMY
AGN Ex Manifold - PN 06A 253 031 E (Someone Please reconfirm with Etka)
(D=Dealer; I=Impex; ATP=Autotechparts.com, DIY=DIYAutoParts)
*Questions:*
- I ordered the Crank Bolt above because the 16V is longer than the 8V for obvious reasons. It looks like I will need a washer or two though as it is a tad too long in the ABA Crank and the 16v crank Gear. Were all 16V 6point and non-stretch type? This is what I got and am kind of glad it is not the 12pt Stretch type Bolt.
- Can anyone Confirm via ETKA the AGN Ex mani PN above? I called my dealer and he said it looks like a valid number but could not cross ref it. He said that even if it was a part N/A in the US that it should come up in his ETKA?? 
- Still Exploring using a 16V Header. What would be the best choice here. Does anyone make a non-Race (i.e. for Cat) Stainless Steel Header (I already have a SS Flange that I could weld on, I could make my own but would rather buy a prod one and modify). And what 16v has the largest Ex Ports (1.8L or 2.0L I forget). I measured the Ex port outlets to be 1 3/8" on the AEB and it looks like they taper in right before the Exit at . Maybe this is for pulse reflection as you can see the carbon buildup from the Gasket/Mani was much larger.
Shawn



_Modified by sdezego at 3:11 PM 3-29-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Teaser Pics. Management in Motion.


















_Modified by sdezego at 10:06 AM 3-31-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Just got in the Diesel pulley I was waiting for.... and it is as expected.






















I will post pictures tonight, but here is some info for now:
- 6 rib VW pulley (same as ABA, or G60)
- Proper offset to run ABA Serpentine belt accessories with 16v timing gears (no more shaving down ABA units)
- OEM part with built in vibration dampener (unlike billet units.. BBM or Futrell)
- Increase pulley size 6.37" as opposed to the 5.5" ABA pulley (alot more boost for anyone going Supercharger without having to go to the smallest upper pulley) This thing is huge... about the size of the VR pulleys








This is a direct bolt on... only issue is that the water pump pulley sits very close, very very close and if you dont have a new or tight pump and it has some wobble you may have rubbing (but the good news is that both this crank pulley and the water pump pulley both have room to be shaved down for safety if desired).


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_...
Crank Bolt ('87 16V Scirocco)	VAG #: N-100-890-01
- I ordered the Crank Bolt above because the 16V is longer than the 8V for obvious reasons. It looks like I will need a washer or two though as it is a tad too long in the ABA Crank and the 16v crank Gear. Were all 16V 6point and non-stretch type? This is what I got and am kind of glad it is not the 12pt Stretch type Bolt.


Can anyone comment on this?
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 3:10 PM 3-29-2006_


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Part # on diesel pully?... or did I miss it?


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_Part # on diesel pully?... or did I miss it?

You can get them from me for $105 shipped if you want one... same as the cheapest aftermarket alternative, but it is an OEM part with dampener http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Here are some pics of the pulley, side by side with an ABA stock pulley








It sits very very close to the water pump, but you can still wrap the belt through either above or below without issue... I am going to see what my local shop wants to take a few mm off tomorrow just for safety, probably only a few bucks.
Silver is the larger pulley, black is the ABA inside of it for comparision








Looks kinda silly... this thing is freaking huge... but it will help greatly with supercharged setups, on a vortech it bumps the impeller speed almost 6000 rpms over the ABA pulley, I dont know what it will do on a G60 but it should be a big improvement as well.








And here is an update on the timing belt situation, atleast where I am at on it...... got my 158T belt today, unfortunately it was incorrect and is curvilinear 3 not 2 so it was the round tooth... (trying again for the correct one tomorrow, but it will be another week until it arrives). But it did allow me to test fit for length. 
The conclusion is this: 158T is slightly loose on a non-distributor setup (16V IM gear). It tightens up with the tensioner at full out, but still has closer to 90 degrees of twist instead of 45. *So 157T 1256mm is what you need for proper tension on this setup.* This will be the next belt I get and hopefully will be the correct tooth as well and put an end to this headache


















_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 5:16 PM 3-29-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
This is a direct bolt on... only issue is that the water pump pulley sits very close, very very close and if you dont have a new or tight pump and it has some wobble you may have rubbing (but the good news is that both this crank pulley and the water pump pulley both have room to be shaved down for safety if desired).

This happened to my today when I was doing the belt routing for the 20V G60.The water pump gear was about 10mm if so much away from the crankshaft accessory gear.









_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_The conclusion is this: 158T is slightly loose on a non-distributor setup (16V IM gear). It tightens up with the tensioner at full out, but still has closer to 90 degrees of twist instead of 45. *So 157T 1256mm is what you need for proper tension on this setup.*

Ok so ABA 20V with Non-52T IM shaft gear = 157Tooth belt?
You know there is an OEM AEB belt with 156T.
p.s. definitely loving the Diesel pulley.


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yes, 157T for and AEB/ABA with a 16V IM gear 43T I believe
I was pretty sure that the AEB had 150T, 152T, and 153T... are you sure there is a 156T, because that might stretch with the tensioner all the way loose, 157T would still be best I think


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 7:48 AM 3-30-2006_


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_








_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 5:16 PM 3-29-2006_

which waterpump pulley is this? VR perhaps? i have an ABA non ac one and it looks a bit different, i wonder if there is a difference in diameter between the VR, ABA no/ac, and OE G-60 no/ac pulley..


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_are you sure there is a 156T, because that might stretch with the tensioner all the way loose, 157T would still be best I think

Yes
PART # : *058 109 119 A* The C-Prefix is for the 153T belt.

_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_which waterpump pulley is this?

VR6 OBD-1 Water pump pulley


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
VR6 OBD-1 Water pump pulley

gonna have to check my ABA no ac one when i get home tonite. Is the VR one grooved for the serp belt or is it flat like the ABA one? it may have a little more clearance since it doesnt have the ribs/edge (like the vr iirc) that is if the diameter is smaller..

also, using that larger crank pulley on a g-60 with the 78mm stock pulley will in effect make it perform as if it had a 68mm pulley on the charger.. plus it will overdrive the alt a little bit too for some more juice there as well








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by psykokid at 3:54 PM 3-29-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Yes, 157T for and AEB/ABA with a 16V IM gear 43T I believe
I was pretty sure that the AEB had 150T, 151T, and 153T... are you sure there is a 156T, because that might stretch with the tensioner all the way loose, 157T would still be best I think

*EDIT: *AEB had 152 and 153 from my research. Also, from my research, I could not find a 156 CII belt.


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Yes
PART # : *058 109 119 A* The C-Prefix is for the 153T belt.



*EDITED *
*058 109 119 A* cross references to a 152T belt on my end. Other specs are correct.
*058 109 119 C* is the 153T 
Shawn

_Modified by sdezego at 7:26 PM 3-29-2006_


_Modified by sdezego at 7:43 PM 3-29-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

My gut is telling me that that Pulley is too big and you will loose hp and spin everything else too fast at higher rpms.
I thought that it was going to be just a tad larger. Sort of like the Passat G60 in comparision to the early Corrado G60 Crank Acc pulley.
None of the 16v Pulleys would be the correct fitment?


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

*as per post #1........ it says...*
_
Well since your no longer using a distributor then your IM shaft does not need to spin @ 1:2 ratio to the crankshaft so the following applies:
Quote, originally posted by What to Use »
3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:
Stock 9A or PL Intermediate shaft with matching IM shaft gear.Make sure you have the oil pump gear to correspond with your IM shaft.
4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER:
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile
1. Contitech 158T Belt : PART# CT 879_ 
*now.... that part# show up in a different thread as ....*
_"Prelude Timing Belt: contitech part # CT 879 (155 teeth)"_ 

*so.......... is it 158... or 155?*


_Modified by haenszel at 3:26 AM 3-30-2006_


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

*Just got off the phone with someone that was actually helpful further up the line about this belt. A 157T cut to 25mm in a Curvilinear 2 tooth will be on its way soon, and it will definitely be curvilinear 2 as I spent a good amount of time on the phone talking to this sales rep about belt types and why most everything is curvilinear 3 now.







Price is around $50 with cutting it down and shipping (will have an exact price once it is charged). The only options were a 30mm or a 50mm, you can squeak 2 belts out of a 50mm, but they will be more like 23-24mm due to cutting and the price would only be a few bucks less then the 30mm cut down, so I went with the 30mm for more accuracy*

AEB belts should be 150T, 152T, 153T (no 151)
Gates Belts
150T Gates T306
152T Gates T291
153T Gates T317
As for the water pump pulley, All VR6 pulleys up to 1999 are the same, OBD1 and OBD2 does not matter. And YES it is the same as the 2.0L Non-AC pulley. There are no ribs on it, it is a smooth pulley so you can wrap the belt around it in either direction, ribs or flat back. The only other one that I am not certain about is the adjustable Corrado Non-AC one, they are tough to find and can be pretty expensive. But I am willing to bet they are pretty much the same size anyway.
There really is not an issue with the diesel pulley and VR6 water pump pulley. They do not touch, there is probably only 1 mm clearance but they dont rub. I was just pointing it out for safety reasons. That is personally alittle too close for me. And as I said eithet the flat water pump pulley could be turned down, or the outer belt guides of the crank pulley can be turned down a few mm to give a little more room. Fitting the belt in either case is not a problem.
As far as loss of HP ???? dont know where you would get that idea. The weight is relatively the same as the other pulley options, just under 3.8 lbs. The increased size is only an advantage to supercharged setups, anyone going turbo has no reason to use it. As for overdriving the accessories:
1) AC - Dont know if anyone is even thinking of putting it on 
2) PS - Would not be effect as it would still be a V-belt system
3) Alt - You can counter some of it by using a VR6 pulley with is the same as far as fitting but slightly larger in diameter ( I will get numbers if needed)
4) H20 - With the ABA serpentine setup you are actually under driving the pump since the pulley is larger the the stock V-belt setup so the larger crank pulley would end up over driving it but not by that much and the water pump isnt really the most efficient pump so I wouldnt really be concerned with it being overdriven.
Pulley Weights **approximate, so dont hold me to ounce on this
- ABA 3.1 lbs
- G60 w/insert 6.4 lbs (billet unit with insert should be slightly less, but not much)
- Diesel 3.8 lbs
Hope that clears things up



_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 11:40 AM 3-30-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

Did they say it is common practice to cut belts down and will not affect the underlying reinforcement patterns? 
Just curious.


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

So yesterday I decided to ditch my "non OEM" IM shaft setup. I was planning on running an ABA oil pump, with the ABA IM shaft and the BBM 16V/ABA conversion timing gear.
The problem with this is you either need to buy the matching BBM dizzy block off to allow the oil pump to connect to the IM shaft or create your own out of an old distributor.
My goal with the engine I am building is to use as many OEM parts as possible where the application is appropriate. So instead of using 2 custom parts I decided to just bite the bullet and get the correct 16V 9A setup to install as a whole system.
Well to my surprise this is what I found... now maybe I just wasnt thinking before or wasnt really paying attention, but maybe this will benifit some other guys as well:
(I know this was touched upon before but maybe some other people didnt quite understand it as well)








ABA on top, 9A on bottom
Both the ABA and 9A IM shafts have the same internal length and bearing size so they are interchangable. What I was unaware of is that they both have the same end drive gear.
This means that the ABA shaft can infact drive a 9A oil pump if you have the drive gear and block cap from a 9A. (still need to modifiy the end for the 16V timing gear)
This also means that the 9A shaft (unmodified end) can be used to drive an ABA distributor if you use an ABA oil pump without any modifications.








ABA left, 9A right
Here is another close up of the two IM shaft ends. It is pretty easy to see what needs to be done to get the ABA shaft to accept a 16V style gear. (easier then I thought it would be). Simply the end needs to be shaved down, as well as a very small amount off of the next set up section. And then remove the key and cut through the shaft in the exact same location, and the exact same size as the cut already there for the key.
*** I have been working on a way to get the oil pump gear from the ABA distributor to work without using the complete distirbutor housing, similar to the 9A. It looks like by removing the shaft from the distirbutor and shaving it down you can run just the gear with the 9A retainer on top to keep it in place. Again not a factory setup but it may save some people alittle time and money***
I am trying to source a place to buy the 9A block off caps (the one that fills the distributor hole and keeps pressue on the drive gear) If I can and people are interested I could set something up to get a package deal 
Distributor cap (block off) from 9A
Machined ABA oil pump drive gear (from distirbutor)
Machined ABA IM shaft (to accept 16V/20V gears)
That would allow for a clean swap to a non-dizzy setup without spending $250 on parts. It would keep the much less expensive ABA oil pump as well which was one of my goals http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Let me know if you guys think it is worth it, ABA parts are not a problem for me to get as cores so it would be pretty easy if people like the idea


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

On the belts.... they are all actually cut down... belts are spun in large sections at once and then cut to size. No belt is made the width that you purchase it.
I spoke with Contitech directly about this, they said that every belt is cut to order. They stock standard sizes and know the limits of those sizes as far as strength goes. But there is no end cap design that stregthens the edges so there is no loss by cutting it down.
Obviously the thicker the belt width the more strength it can hold, but there is nothing in the design past that. That is what I was told directly from them, as well as the supplier I found.
Now if you cut them down by hand yourself I would be concerned about an uneven cut and having issues, but direct from a belt supplier I would not even consider it an issue since they are using the correct equipment that cuts every belt you buy off the shelf. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Some info from 1.8T some of which may have already been known here:

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_so, AEB was the only large port head right?
What cars did they come on other than Passat DBC and were they all Longitudinal? I know Audi, but not sure what Model or if it was Longitudinal or transverse.
Just looking for options on and intake as I have the Passat which will not work for my app w/o lots of mods which I can do if need be.
Thanks,
Shawn



_Quote, originally posted by *Boostin20v* »_In the US the only one was AEB found in the '97-'99 VW Passat and Audi A4. All were longitudinal engines. In europe there was ADR and I think AGU (possibly another...seem to recall another but cant think of it).




_Quote, originally posted by *golf2 1.8t* »_There have been much more large port engines in Germany. For example AGU - Golf 4 and A3
AEB - Passat, A4, A6
AJL 180 hp A4
ADR 125 hp non turbo, but 20V - Golf 4, A3, A4 and Passat


_Quote, originally posted by *PHAT* »_Just letting you know that all the Australian Golf GTI's came with the large port AGU head.


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Excellent, thanks!
So, if I were looking for a large port intake manifold with a passenger side TB, I should be looking for the Euro AGU based on what you noted? 



_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_large port passenger side is AGU.


Now I just need to find the ETKA Part number.
Shawn



_Modified by sdezego at 11:33 AM 4-1-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_On the belts.... they are all actually cut down... belts are spun in large sections at once and then cut to size. No belt is made the width that you purchase it.
I spoke with Contitech directly about this, they said that every belt is cut to order. They stock standard sizes and know the limits of those sizes as far as strength goes. But there is no end cap design that stregthens the edges so there is no loss by cutting it down.


That is exactly what I wanted to hear! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
You said that there was not a 159T? ...or was there (now that you supplier knows what Curv II is)? Let me know if 159T is not avail and I will take exact measurements to see if 158 or 160 will work w/o mods when using 52T Im Shaft Gear on Tall Block.
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_or *wasnt really paying attention*, but maybe this will benifit some other guys as well:








..back in the middle of page 2.
B4S first pointed this out to me in early 2005 after he was running an ABA 16V using the ABA distributor and a 9A IM shaft.The only problem is that you wont find a 52T IM Shaft gear that directly bolts to the 9A IM Shaft.Rodney Huss offered his services to modifying the ABA unit to accept the correct IM shaft gear but if you can do mass and even lighten them up then I am all for it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
For those users who have the 9A IM shaft and dont feel like forking out the $$ needed to modify the ABA IM shaft,Autotech is in the process of making a 52T unit that will be a direct bolt on.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_So yesterday I decided to ditch my "non OEM" IM shaft setup. ...








ABA left, 9A right


Yes, I made the mod precisely in about 10 min with a Cut off wheel. 
Once thing to *NOTE:* if you are using the transverse 20v Cam gear as an intermediate Shaft Gear (i.e. if you are going to run a Dizzy), do not cut off that Shoulder down to the 9a size. You only need to trim off about 1mm off the snout and then cut the keyway path. This is so that the bolt/washer will tighten up against the Gear (i.e. so the shaft does not protrude out past the sprocket). 
*EDIT:* Some pics for illustration (NOTE: this is my Mock Setup so stuff it dirty and not rebuilt







). 
Shawn
*159T Belt*









*20v Transverse Cam gear on modified ABA IM Shaft for use of Dist. I have not cut the ~1mm off of the snout yet and you can see it protrudes a tad bit past the washer recess. *









*Correct Back spacing on IM Shaft Gear/Belt. Acc. Crank Pulley has not been modified yet.*










_Modified by sdezego at 9:47 AM 3-31-2006_


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Belts I can get from this supplier are as follows:
155T
157T
158T
160T
162T
163T
164T
Now there may be others out there from other companies but that is all I can get through this place


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

Found the distributor cap for those who dont feel like cutting into there heads.
Its from a *Ford Pinto/Lucas X-Flow Engines*


----------



## debeerd (Mar 20, 2006)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Does anyone have the head codes for the large and small port heads ?
Or what model the large port came off ?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (debeerd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *debeerd* »_Does anyone have the head codes for the large and small port heads ?
Or what model the large port came off ?

Look one page earlier (Pg 21) at the bottom. 

You can also check the first couple of pages for some small port codes, but you would be better off posting in the 1.8t forum for the all inclusive list or look in the FAQ's in the 1.8t.
Shawn


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Here is the final H20 pump pulley... tracked it down.
This was from Passat Syncro G60s from what I can find, maybe some other variations as well.
037-121-030A








It is adjustable, but I dont know exactly how, I am guessing it moves the pulley side to side like the roller/tensioner for the timing belt, I have never actually seen one in person so I cant give any specifics. I would guess it is slightly larger due to the fact that it has machined grooves in it and a guide lip, but again tha is only a guess.
Price from Impex is a hefty $182..... so needless to say I personally wont be footing the bill to have one to look at, but it might be an option for anyone looking for another way to tune in belt tension.

_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 8:59 AM 4-6-2006_


_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 9:01 AM 4-6-2006_


----------



## Magovit (Mar 31, 2006)

You can find a table with CODES of engines and our cars
http://www.qpeng.com/faqs/engi....html


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Magovit)*

We have a winner.....
Contitech Brand (german made, not generic)
1256mm total length
157 teeth
25mm width
S 8M pitch
Curvilinear II design
*** This will fit the following setup, ABA (tall block) bottom end, and 1.8T head, with standard size 16V or 20V cam and crank gears and a 16V IM shaft gear (43T, small gear) or BBMs equivalent for the ABA shaft.***
*** This will not fit anything using a 52T IM gear (AWP or modified Cam gear) and running a distributor***
*THIS IS NOT A STOCK BELT* 
*THERE IS NO PART NUMBER FOR IT*
This belt is available only in a 30mm or 50mm width off of the shelf, so they need to be cut down to 25mm for our setups. So please dont ask for a part number to go and cross reference at NAPA or Autozone.... there simply is not one.
I can get these for anyone needing them for $65 shipped, I know that sounds like alot for a belt.... That is the price for the belt, to have it cut down, to have it shipped to me and then to ship to you. I am honestly making a little less then $5 off of that price if that, and that is for the time I spent finding this belt and tracking down suppliers willing to deal with small orders..... if you dont believe me go ahead and try it yourself.
Next up on the list will be to verify the belt for those of you running a distributor with the larger 52T IM gear. I am almost positive that the 160T belt will be ok, unfortunately a 159T would probably be better but Contitech does not offer one at all. If anyone wants to pick up the 160T belt I can get it ordered, it will be about a week for delivery and will probably be a few bucks more then the 157T, but nothing drastic. Otherwise it will be awhile until I get a hold of the AWP gear and the belt as I already put out over $150 in belts to find this setup.... and tons of time so if some one wants to step up and foot the bill for the next trial session let me know, otherwise I will get to it when I can http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

I got a nice little Package yesterday (AGU Intake for my FMIC/20v/G60).
Again: this is just a mock up Engine..


















*Yes, it has the large Ports*







It is a Euro and Aust Golf mani FYI and if fit precisely (after one small notch on a boss).










_Modified by sdezego at 2:39 PM 4-7-2006_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_AGU Intake for my FMIC/20v/G60

I was going to use the AGU intake @ first but opted for the TT Quattro unit after I figured you could not use the stock G60 airbox (which I really want) with a passenger side intake manifold.As usual with all my projects I am all about an OEM look.
I will post pictures early next week with my partial set up showing the VWMS cogged gears and such.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I was going to use the AGU intake @ first but opted for the TT Quattro unit after I figured you could not use the stock G60 airbox (which I really want) with a passenger side intake manifold.

You can if you mount the Air box on the Driver Side where the Batt is suppose to me and intake the G60 from the driver side and boost return to the pass side. The TB is right there as well







Still not positive that is what i am going to do, but I want to go back to the stock Air box.

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I am all about an OEM look.

I am right with you on that one!
S


_Modified by sdezego at 3:39 PM 4-7-2006_


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Thanks to Rodney Huss, I have the perfect piston.










_Modified by sdezego at 9:29 PM 4-7-2006_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_You can if you mount the Air box on the Driver Side where the Batt is suppose to me and intake the G60 from the driver side and boost return to the pass side. The TB is right there as well







Still not positive that is what i am going to do, but I want to go back to the stock Air box.

Thought about that as well but if it means I need to purchase an RSR outlet to run a FMIC then I will go that route.I still have not made up my mind as to what charger I want to use for this build but for sure the Intake for the charger is going to be via a stock G60 box equipped with a K&N drop in filter.

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Thanks to Rodney Huss, I have the perfect piston.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ..Rodney seems to be the official JE guy on Vortex.


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## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

my project has come to a hault because the machine shop told me my pg block needs to be rebored because of some wear. he said he can rebore the .25mm or .70 mm over. the original plan was to use the 1.8t internals and would still like to beside the pistons. so what options do i have. in the search i found a guy sell:1.8T JE piston set- 83mm for 92.8mm crank, 9:1cr- and want to know if this would be a good setup for me. pls let me know


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_my project has come to a hault because the machine shop told me my pg block needs to be rebored because of some wear. he said he can rebore the .25mm or .70 mm over. the original plan was to use the 1.8t internals and would still like to beside the pistons. so what options do i have. in the search i found a guy sell:1.8T JE piston set- 83mm for 92.8mm crank, 9:1cr- and want to know if this would be a good setup for me. pls let me know

Even if you used 1.8T connecting rods,those pistons will still sit 1mm above deck.Either find another PG block or order a set of JE pistons.


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## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Even if you used 1.8T connecting rods,those pistons will still sit 1mm above deck.Either find another PG block or order a set of JE pistons.

this site has some pistons( http://www.importperformancepa....html) which ones should i get to be able to use the 1.8t rods


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_this site has some pistons( http://www.importperformancepa....html) which ones should i get to be able to use the 1.8t rods

Using an 86.4mm crank and a 220mm deck height,the one that has a Compression Height of 32.8mm (*1.286* inch's).Contact rhussjr (Rodney Huss) for your JE Pistons.


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## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Using an 86.4mm crank and a 220mm deck height,the one that has a Compression Height of 32.8mm (*1.286* inch's).Contact rhussjr (Rodney Huss) for your JE Pistons.

So if i have this correct any of 1.8t listed in the site would work fine excpt the std bore and i would be able to use the stock 1.8t rods, my pg crank shaft. the only thing i would need to know is what CR i wanted and i would say one that would not put too much strain on the rods/engine. How are the prices with Rodney Huss. Every one i am really sorry but just need to know the fact.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_So if i have this correct any of 1.8t listed in the site would work fine excpt the std bore and i would be able to use the stock 1.8t rods, my pg crank shaft. the only thing i would need to know is what CR i wanted and i would say one that would not put too much strain on the rods/engine. How are the prices with Rodney Huss. Every one i am really sorry but just need to know the fact.

The site lists 81mm to 82mm with CR ranging from 8.5:1 to 9.25:1.Obviously your going to want a piston that has a bore greater than 81mm.Compression Ratio is dependant on what you want out of your engine and what you plan to provide for it in terms of quality of fuel as well as method of Forced Induction.I would go with Rodney because at least with him you have constant communication and good buisness morals.


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## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
The site lists 81mm to 82mm with CR ranging from 8.5:1 to 9.25:1.Obviously your going to want a piston that has a bore greater than 81mm.Compression Ratio is dependant on what you want out of your engine and what you plan to provide for it in terms of quality of fuel as well as method of Forced Induction.I would go with Rodney because at least with him you have constant communication and good buisness morals.

thats all i wanted to hear. thank you


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (twinrado)*

What tensioner stud is everyone using/going to use. Any part numbers for it?
The one that is on my AEB was meant for the auto tensioner and only has a small threaded end for a cap nut. Not beefy enough for a fixed tensioner in my eyes.
Does the 16v have the shoulder at the base to allow correct back spacing off of the head?
Did the early '97 or '98 Passat come with a fixed belt tensioner or just a crappy auto-tensioner that was upgraded?
Shawn


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

I am just running a 16V stud, it is a typical stud with threads on both sides and a flat area for the tensioner in the middle so it can really only be treaded in to the correct distance (and I already have one in my AEB head just incase anyone needs to know it was tested)
PN (N 90296401)
Locking nut is PN (N 0111337)


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (smokinjoe644)*

Nice. The AEB stud has a backspacing shoulder so I was wondering about that. If I flip the tensioner over, I guess the back spacing offset will be the same without one (i.e. with a plain Stud). Glad to know the 16v one works correctly.
Thanks!


_Modified by sdezego at 8:45 PM 4-12-2006_


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Since we are on Part Numbers, does anyone have the PN for AEB head Bolt washers?
Somone posted a number earlier of (056 103 377), but that is incorrect.
*Edit* I now see that the AEB has a Steel threaded insert for the head bolt seats. No Washer is needed.
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 9:19 AM 4-13-2006_


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

where is everybody connecting the oil inlet house to: the head? the block? or the oil filter manifold and using a t-fitting the the sensor


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_where is everybody connecting the oil inlet house to: the head? the block? or the oil filter manifold and using a t-fitting the the sensor

That is a good point. I have not made it that far yet. There is an allen plug on the end of the head though that can be used for the low pressure sensor and or oil feed. You would need to tap it though to M10 iirc.
I am not sure if I will use this plug just for the switch or T it an use it for the charger or if I will feed the charger off of the oil filter housing. I see pros and cons to both.
The charger line it self is a restrictor so the slightly high pressure from the filter housing does not bother me. It might be better to keep as much pressure to the lifters and such as possible. Especially if you are running the 52T IM gear for a dist.
It is a toss up.
Shawn


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## Magovit (Mar 31, 2006)

Hello friend from the other side os world







I have a AEB head and will put it in a ABA Block, I will made a cam set, the configuration is: in 272, out 282- 108 lobe and 9,5 de lift, this set it´s good? what you say about this? Another thig is, 3 angle jobs 30,45,60 it´s best?
Thanks for all, today I have a GOL 2.0 16v http://www.gti16v.nsol.com.br


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (Magovit)*

Shawn... 
On the oil line I am with you on the filter housing, that is my plan as of right now.
And the on the oil pressure, I would not really be concerned with the pump being under driven with the 52T IM gear. The ABA gear while it has less teeth is the same diameter as your larger gear and will spin in the same ratio so it will put out the same amount of pressure it is supposed to. I was actually concerned with running the smaller 16V gear because it will keep the pump at a higher pressure and I dont know if it will constantly be opening the relief valve and wear out the pumps faster.... part of the reason I am now probably going with the 16V pump setrup which is designed to spin faster.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Shawn... 
On the oil line I am with you on the filter housing, that is my plan as of right now.
And the on the oil pressure, I would not really be concerned with the pump being under driven with the 52T IM gear. The ABA gear while it has less teeth is the same diameter as your larger gear and will spin in the same ratio so it will put out the same amount of pressure it is supposed to. I was actually concerned with running the smaller 16V gear because it will keep the pump at a higher pressure and I dont know if it will constantly be opening the relief valve and wear out the pumps faster.... part of the reason I am now probably going with the 16V pump setrup which is designed to spin faster.

So what is everyone with the PG block doing when it comes to the oil inlet hose. i was told that you can run it fron the head(hex screw on the head which would need to be widen"dont know why since a turbo doesnt need that much pressure"but some say the pressure to the head valve and all would be less.other option would be the oil filter housing: i plan of using the oil pump fron a aba engine just because it will be newer and most people says it produces more pressure. and with my setup since i am using the awm head w/16v cam and 16v im shaft gear what would be the best setup for me.


----------



## JonVWluver (Mar 29, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Can you fit a 20v head on a ABA MOTOR using a Lysholm


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (JonVWluver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Magovit* »_I will made a cam set, the configuration is: in 272, out 282- 108 lobe and 9,5 de lift, this set it´s good?

Hey,which camshafts are you using?Custom units?Not sure on what duration is best,maybe Bobqzzi will chime in soon.

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_what would be the best setup for me.

If you were told to run it from the head then why are you asking what set up would be best?I created this thread to help people gather the correct parts and to understand how you can go about doing this conversion.I did not create this thread so that people could be spoon fed every step of the way.
The pressure in the head is lower than the pressure @ the oil filter flange.The stock PG G60 has the oil inlet line coming from the rear of the head.What does this tell us?Either mimic the same operation on the head or use an oil pressure restrictor when running a line off the block.

_Quote, originally posted by *JonVWluver* »_Can you fit a 20v head on a ABA MOTOR using a Lysholm

Did you even read Page 1?








Yes you can...
Shawn can you tell me if the PS section on the ABA pulley below is fixed to the harmonic dampner or to the solid centre section.I want to mount a 60-2 wheel there for a guy but a bit worried about the slight "wobbling" affecting the VR signal.I was using the stock PG G60 unit until I saw this picture,figured I would ask a question.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Shawn can you tell me if the PS section on the ABA pulley below is fixed to the harmonic dampner or to the solid centre section.

No it is not fixed, but it is hub centric. The V Belt Pulley hub fits tightly into the Serp Belt pulley (which you know centers on the Timing Crank Pulley). This one is from a 96 OBDII, but was delivered with all left over OBDI parts (Block , Forged Crank, etc). Not sure if they changed the pulleys, so I thought I would mention it.
Shawn


----------



## vdubtiago (Apr 15, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

absolutely amazing....
i was thinking about doing this in my 92 gti


----------



## MYVDUBISMYBABY (Mar 11, 2006)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

Do you know how much horses you would get adding a 1.8 29 valve head to a ABA block trying to do the same thing.


----------



## Longboarder (Jul 1, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Why isnt this thread a sticky yet? Ever since Saabfan got married, he stopped comming to this forum...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Longboarder)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MYVDUBISMYBABY* »_Do you know how much horses you would get adding a 1.8 20 valve head to a ABA block trying to do the same thing.

Staying NA or Going turbocharged?What exactly are you hoping to achieve?

_Quote, originally posted by *Longboarder* »_Why isnt this thread a sticky yet? Ever since Saabfan got married, he stopped comming to this forum...









Saab who?You mean wifefan?







...he still has a couple of posts to clean up in this thread.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Time for a prolifora of Information update (Part 1):
1.) Still looking for a torque plate to have my block bored. Looks like I will be making my own. I found a source thanks to Colin at TT, but $400 is a bit spendy and I can't justify that expense right now (even though i though about renting it out afterward). I can't find a local shop w/one and I want to do it 100%.
2.) Joe sent me a 158T belt to test on my setup (AEB, ABA running Dist w/ 52T IM gear, 16v tensioner). I was barely able to stretch it on but had no Head Gasket, so it is not plug and play. But, I took apart the 16v tensioner outer halves and if you use the center Hub and Bearing and make your own housing a bit smaller than the 16v outer tensioner, this will work just nicely and you will have the CORRECT Profile TOOTH! SmokinJoe644 is the source for the bets. This is likely the route I will take as I am almost certain the 160T will be too long, but joe was going to order one to make absolute. NOTE: recall that 159T is perfect for this app, but there is no source for that Tooth in CurvII.

3.) I took my stock ABA pistons, Pins, clips and Rings along with my Forged JE shown a couple of posts ago up to my Brothers Shop and threw them on the Double Beam balance. They are within 2g of each other








Shawn


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Information update (Part 2):
I have my Exhaust all sorted. I went round a round and decided to take my own route for a number of reasons. I am going with a SS Flange and a SuperSprint Tri-y Mk2 16v Header that I will deflange and mate to my Flange. The SuperSprint has a long Tri-Y, a double Flex Flange and you can Run a Cat on this one. The long Tri-Y should give me better mid-upper range torque than the N/A AGN setup.

Time for Q&A before pics.
Q: aren't the 20V ports larger than the 16v?
A: I think the Mk2 has larger Exhaust ports than the Later 2L 16v (I Forget Actually) but regardless, the answer is no in regards to the 16v header. The Stock AEB ports are ~ 1 3/8" and shown below. The SS Header has ID of 1.5"+
Q: Should you port match the Ex to be the same size as the header.
A: This is a discussion that i will not even attempt here. I will 90% sure be leaving them alone so that the Header Primaries are a tad bigger than the Head port which should help prevent reversion and help in scavenging (That is the theory anyway).
Q: Are the 16V port widths the same as the 20v?
A: NO, the 20v are about an inch wider between two 2 inners and about the same between the two outers. Easily workable though.
Q: Are you going to weld this up now?
A: No. I am going to wait until I get everthig in the car, then mockt it up, tack weld and then Tig it. Remember this is a Tall Block and the Mk2 is not. I will be able to make adjustments to clear everythign properly. Nothing is worse that having and Ex bang the tunnel now and again!
Pic Time:

































































_Modified by sdezego at 10:07 PM 5-3-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I have my Exhaust all sorted. I went round a round and decided to take my own route for a number of reasons. I am going with a SS Flange and a SuperSprint Tri-y Mk2 16v Header that I will deflange and mate to my Flange. The SuperSprint has a long Tri-Y, a double Flex Flange and you can Run a Cat on this one. The long Tri-Y should give me better mid-upper range torque than the N/A AGN setup.

Shawn you paid $500+ only to cut up the manifold?If I knew thats what you wanted,I could have had one built for you for alot less than the parts & labour your about to encounter.
All the power to you though


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yea, I know.... I will only need to reflange the header though. No other cutting necessary. It is definitely more than I wanted to spend, but is such an important part of the setup. I thought of it this way, it is easier to hurt performance with a poor intake/header. SS goes through a lot of research on tube lengths for each and every motor and such to maximize pulse reflexes scavenging and power bands. My feeling is that the header should be a very good aproximation (if not exact) from a 16v to a 20v.
Also, the quality and fitment of SS headers are second to none. The collectors are such are amazing. This was huge to me as I have seen issues with poor quality and some custom headers.
On a side note: If you saw the Miller welder that I just picked up you would be wondering why I didn't just build one myself








Shawn


----------



## westcoastjay (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

Updates 05/06/06
Motor is in the car, Now to plumb and wire it up


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (westcoastjay)*

Lookin good... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What water neck is that on the head?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Lookin good... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What water neck is that on the head?

AWD (i.e. 2000 Golf). That is the one that I listed the part number for a few threads ago. Edit: (Mid Page 21)


_Modified by sdezego at 10:24 PM 5-7-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_SS goes through a lot of research on tube lengths for each and every motor and such to maximize pulse reflexes scavenging and power bands.

But your going to have to heat the manifold in order to get the bends to line up with the plate.

_Quote, originally posted by *westcoastjay* »_Updates 05/06/06
Motor is in the car, Now to plumb and wire it up










Jay any particular reason your using a small port Audi TT Intake manifold on a Big port head?

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_AWD (i.e. 2000 Golf). That is the one that I listed the part number for a few threads ago.

Shawn I would really like to update the 1st page with all these little part #'s as well as the correct timing belt information.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Since we are one the subject of the coolant flange, I am in the process of sorting out an option for the temp sensor.
Since Digi uses 2 separate (Blue CTS and black for temp gage) and there us only one spot in the flange something will have to be improvised. I remember seeing a simple inline T that accepts a temp sensor, but don't recall what it is from (I seem to recall some TDI variant). I really don;t want to go that route though and since I will be on MSnS-e, any CTS will work as long as I know the resistence curve(s).
What I am currently looking into is using the 1.8t CTS. It has 4 pins, so I am assuming that it is a dual sensor in one (ECU and Temp Cluster Gage)? Still trying to verify this though and get the resistence curves for it, but I don't have a 1.8t bentley and I am not getting much love from the 1.8T forum.
Here is the link to my thread with a pic of the sensor in question. -> http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2594331


----------



## INA (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I remember seeing a simple inline T that accepts a temp sensor, but don't recall what it is from (I seem to recall some TDI variant). I really don;t want to go that route though and since I will be on MSnS-e, any CTS will work as long as I know the resistence curve(s).

Like this Shawn?

(click the image)


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Like this Shawn?

In concept, but I "thought" that I remember seeing one that was a VW plastic factory part that accepts the stock type coolant sensors. Maybe it was in the 16v Forum, was a while ago and I thought it was from some year TDI.
If I don't get an answer soon about the 1.8T sensor, then i may just check the pinouts myself and calculate the Resistance curves on a pot of water.
I already bought one since it was only like $5, so i have it in hand. Would be ideal to have an all in one sensor for ECU and Gage.
S


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

the audi a4 20v n/a engine has a coolant flange that accepts 2 coolant flanges, ill get a picture and part number soon


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (rallye driver)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rallye driver* »_the audi a4 20v n/a engine has a coolant flange that accepts 2 coolant flanges, ill get a picture and part number soon

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I checked today just at air temp ~79degF and here is what I have so far for the 1.8T CTS.
*Terminals:*
- *a-b* = 725 ohm (need to check against the Black CTS for the cluster along with at least 2 other temp points)
- *c-d* = 1.6K ohm which = the Digi Blue CTS at Room temp (Based on Bentley). Need to verify other points on the curve to assure they are the same w/in operating range.
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 2:20 PM 5-8-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I checked today just at air temp ~79degF and here is what I have so far for the 1.8T CTS.

Shawn your using MS&S or Digi-I?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Shawn your using MS&S or Digi-I?

I am running MsnS-e - so, the resistence Curve for the ECU does not matter to me as long as I know 3 value pairs in the usable temp range since I can reflash MSnS via EasyTherm. The temp sensor curve for the cluster gage does matter though and hopefully they are the same as well so that my temp gage will read correctly. 
I am verifying the ECU CTS curve from the 1.8T in relation to the Blue CTS to help any poor souls that wish to stay with Digicrap and want to use the dual 1.8T Coolant sensor on the AWD flange asopposed to running the traditional Blue and Black CTS separately








Hope that makes sense to everyone.
Shawn


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## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Well got some good news... sort of.... from Gates.
They have tooling for a 156T (157T fits fine but I think this may alow you to not turn the tensioner as far, would have to be test fitted to verify) and a 159T. However both are not belts that they produce and market. They said it is not a problem to have the made but it would have to be a special order and in an unnamed quantity. 
I am going to try to get some more useful information from them like a per belt price and what the minimum quantity would be to get them made up. Things that would have been nice if they just stated it in the email that took 3 weeks to get replied too...


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Well got some good news... sort of.... from Gates.
...

I have some good news as well.
After looking at lots of parts pics, I decided to get the '99 AEB tensioner bearing (The updated one) on a hunch. I have verified that this *will work nicely with the 158T belt* when running Dist (i.e. 52T IM gear)!
You have two simple choices to make it work. You can Fix the inner Sleeve/Bushing (Remember this is suppose to use an external tensioner/dampener) or you can simply redrill a tensioner stud hole in a different spot.
The reason this one works as opposed to the 16v is not necessarily the outer diameter, but more the inner bearing type. The Bearing on the AEB is mammoth and almost looks like a ft wheel bearing.. Full width and much larger diameter than the 16v (Which allows for creation of the tensioner stud hole in a larger offset than the 16v). It is 10 times the bearing of the 16v.
Oh yea, you knew there was going to be a caveat didn't you? This one cost about $68. That is the price you pay for plug and play.
Shawn

Here is a pic of the tensioner (autotechparts.com).












_Modified by sdezego at 8:06 AM 5-9-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_The Bearing on the AEB is mammoth and almost looks like a ft wheel bearing.. Full width and much larger diameter than the 16v (Which allows for creation of the tensioner stud hole in a larger offset than the 16v). It is 10 times the bearing of the 16v and will have less rotational speed due to its larger diameter.

Funny that same bearing came apart in my hand.I will use what has been proven to work for years,hence the 9A unit.


----------



## rallye driver (May 30, 2003)

this is the audi coolant flange part number 058 121 133 B] 

_Modified by rallye driver at 12:50 PM 5-9-2006_


_Modified by rallye driver at 6:12 PM 5-10-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Funny that same bearing came apart in my hand.I will use what has been proven to work for years,hence the 9A unit.

You will have to machine ayour own hub to use the 9A bearing if you are running a Dist (since there is no 159T belt). That is the point.
What came apart?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_You will have to machine ayour own hub to use the 9A bearing if you are running a Dist (since there is no 159T belt). That is the point.

I thought Joe confirmed that he could get a 159T belt?Even the 158T is too short with the 9A tensioner?

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_What came apart?

The actual bearing came apart.Maybe not the same quality?


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

there for a while, the 1.8t tensioners were a problem. I think the mechanical was better than the hydraulic version... but, I haven't kept up with that kind of stuff since I when my 16V started getting fun







... heheh. It was a big warranty issue, tho.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I thought Joe confirmed that he could get a 159T belt?Even the 158T is too short with the 9A tensioner?


He was able to confirm that Gates has the tooling for a 159T. My gut is telling me that are not going to make a small batch, but who knows.
158T will not work with the 9a unless you separate the outer pulley from the bearing and fabricate your own pulley hub. There will not be much to work with, but it is possible as I have verified.
Let me reitereate for new eyes. We are talking about AEB, ABA running Dist with 52t IM shaft gear and the tensioners mentioned above.
S


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Ok here is some belt information:
PG or 9A block with 20V head NO Distributor (16V IM) = 153T
-available from gates or contitech
-OEM replacement Early 20V (AEB) belt
PG or 9A block with 20V head AND Distributor (AWW IM) = 155T
-not verifed at this point (but should be correct)
-contitech special order through myself

ABA block with 20V head NO Distributor (16V IM) = 157T (works well), 156T (maybe fit better, needs verification)
-157T contitech special order through myself
-156T (working out details with gates special order, not available right now) needs verification

ABA block with 20V head AND Distributor (AWW IM) = 159T
-159T (working out details with gates special order, not available right now) would be perfect fit with 16V tensioner
-158T contitech (may work with modified tensioners)
-160T contitech (will be verified soon, probably too long)

Contitech has the following belts in the correct tooth pattern
153T
155T
157T
158T
160T
Aside from the 153T they do not come in 25mm widths so they all need to be special ordered and cut to the proper size for our applications. I can source any of the above belts if needed.

Gates has told me that the 156T and 159T can be made but will be a custom run. They do not produce these belts but have the means to. I am currently working out details and trying to get prices to see if it is possible.
*** If anyone else knows of a reliable belt manufacturer that may have these sizes please chime in.... I have been working on this for proabably a solid month now.. and this is as far as I have gotten. There is no direct fit belts for these applications that I am aware of***


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Whelp, this project is full of surprises. I don't take anything for granted and closely inspect everything every step of the way. I have read about plugging the 3 oil drains on the back of the head and someone that also modified the one Front drain a bit to get a better seal, but I have determined that more mods are needed.
You are looking at the OBDI ABA HG and the HG fits the outer edge of the block perfectly. The other 2 real oil drains need to be modified as well to ensure a proper seal. Looks like I will be taking the TIG to it after all.
This may be a good reason why others have reported leaking.


----------



## captain coordination (Nov 4, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (86JettaWolfsburg)*

i love this thread http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Oil returns revisited.*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Gates has told me that the 156T and 159T can be made but will be a custom run.

How many members do they need to do a production run of belts Joe?

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_This may be a good reason why others have reported leaking

Not if the head is torqued down properly.I tapped my head and plugged the 3 returns @ the rear with (3) 3/8" NPT plugs from Napa & modified the front oil return.Torqued down the head and sprayed some oil around the head,did not notice any leaks (granted I did not start the engine).*This was the exact procedure performed by Nate Romero on his 2020 Project*.








Also another procedure I approached with similar results was drilling the head gasket @ the front oil return until everything matched back properly.One thing I noticed about your head is that your oil return port is different than mine.The AEB head as you know was bolted to an external water pump block so it allready had the required front oil return. which when torqued correctly would not leak.(see image)
Isnt your head an AEB unit?








p.s. I just checked back on page 1 and realised that I erased the part about modifying the front oil return.Must have been when I edited the post last month...








Something tells me your anal about your work and thats something I like.You allready have the before picture so take one after your done modifying the oil return.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Something tells me your anal about your work and thats something I like. You allready have the before picture so take one after your done modifying the oil return.


I like to think of it as detail oriented







I don't fancy doing things twice. I will post all of the after pics when I get the head done in the next couple of weeks.

'99 AEB, yes. That picture above is very deceiving because of the Shadow on the front off set oil return. It even caused me to relook at the head, gasket and block. Ironically enough, I think it is not necessary to modify the head for the ABA there. I looked and it appears that the Crush zones around the Oil holes there mesh with the head and block just fine (I will be double checking that though).
Here are better pics illustrating the Oil drain arrangement on the front of my head. I assume they are the same as yours.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Ironically enough, I think it is not necessary to modify the head for the ABA there

Cant hurt to do it.If I had to do it again I would have just drilled the head gasket since the ABA does have the provision to cover it @ this section instead of paying a machine shop to modify the head.








p.s. I am working on fitting an AEB head onto a TDi bottom end just so I can eliminate the external water pump.*You can follow the thread here*.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Since No machine shop around here had one and I want to take my time and do everything in my power to make this 100%, I decided to make my own Torque plate. I am not sure why i am getting so anal lately. I never used a TP before on a VW block...
BTW: that is 2" thick T6061


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

i don't post here much, but man that's an awesome torque plate you made! In my book, that's officially the coolest homemade tool on vortex!


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

plz forgive my ignorance, but what's a torque plate, and what does it do?


----------



## NoNonsense (Dec 10, 2003)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (elRey)*

a torque plate is what you see in the pic above. Basically it is bolted to the block before honing or overboring the cylinder - it replicated the force of a cylinder head being bolted to the block and torqued - the same force your engine sees everyday when running. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_









Thats an awesome Torque plate.Hope those are not reused head bolts







.
Whats the bore spacing? 83mm?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Brand new head bolts and new gasket







Its a tad under 83, but after my bore work it will be right at 83mm.
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Brand new head bolts and new gasket







Its a tad under 83, but after my bore work it will be right at 83mm.

Feel like renting it out for when I do the TDi block?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*

No problem.


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

I am glad everyone project is moving forward. cant wait to see one running


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_No problem.









Are you done using it Shawn?Is the bore on it 83mm?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*

The bore on it is just shade over 83mm. I should get my machine work back sometime this week and will let you know.
S


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

Well guys... I hate to say it but my project has to go... life forces this one to not be completed right now
Not trying to turn this into a sales thread but here is my post, I am sure it will help some of you out. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2647612
If anyone needs the belt information I can supply it for you and you can contact them directly for your personal needs
Good luck to everyone else on their build ups http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Joe



_Modified by smokinjoe644 at 8:41 AM 6-6-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (smokinjoe644)*

IM sent.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_
Not trying to turn this into a sales thread but here is my post, I am sure it will help some of you out.

Hey Joe,sorry to see you go bro,*post some pictures up in this thread and check your IM*.
p.s. At least try to keep the hard to get parts.

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_IM sent.

Check your IM shawn


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*

bump


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*

Has anyone run there engines yet?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I think it is not necessary to modify the head for the ABA there.

I picked up a PG Block this weekend and it is necessary to modify the small oil return @ the front of the 20V head for the PG block as it does not have the extra lip like the counterflow blocks (ABA & AEB).
* PG BLOCK - no extra lip
* AEB Block - lip

_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Has anyone run there engines yet?

Only Shawn & myself left to run.Justin,Jason & others are up and running now.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Has anyone run there engines yet?

Just got my machine work back today. Need to check it all over before i start assembly. I have like 12 projects going at once on my Corrado and trying to stay focused








Really wishing I would have went with a set of SCAT rods though. I got my ABA rods Resized, Shot Peened and installed ARPs and I am just about up to the $ of a set... I could have done the SCAT rebush at my shop myself.


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

So i started removal of the head on my 9A block today.. 
Will be going with the AEB head and 1.8t internals..
I've got the basics down for the gears but I'm still unsure of the Timing Belt & Tensioner situation.. Can anyone provide some light on this?
Thanks


----------



## glaciuz (Jun 15, 2002)

i've over read this topic and i was wondering if its the same thing with a AEG block, since the waterpump is internal, is there anything special to do with this setup?


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

I found out from TwinScrew20v that the 98 Prelude 2.3L belt is the proper one for a PG with Inblock Dizzy.. 
Thanks.


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

I was wondering which head bolts everyone is using for the PG block/20v head


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

I'm pretty sure TwinScrew told me the AEB bolts.. I know that is what he used..


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_I was wondering which head bolts everyone is using for the PG block/20v head

AEB head Bolts are the only ones that will work w/o a lot of modification. Or if you want to you can buy a set of Raceware studs. ARP does not make the AEB Headbolts to date.
Shawn


----------



## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

My AEG block has already been decked .01" 
I know that the stock pistons, unmodified, will not clear the valves (20v head) but with the block decked is this going to be an even bigger problem??? 
Should I just by another block? or can I SAFELY modify the pistons?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twicepardoned* »_My AEG block has already been decked .01" 
I know that the stock pistons, unmodified, will not clear the valves (20v head) but with the block decked is this going to be an even bigger problem??? 
Should I just by another block? or can I SAFELY modify the pistons?

You have to modify stock pistons or get custom anyway... just do so
with your block in mind...
i.e. modify stock piston by shaving crown down a little
or by custom pistons made for your deck height ur block height


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I could have done the SCAT rebush at my shop myself.









Why didnt you contact me?I believe Paul has about 5-6 sets of SCAT rods collecting dust.

_Quote, originally posted by *98vr6t* »_So i started removal of the head on my 9A block today.. 
Will be going with the AEB head and 1.8t internals.

You cant use the 1.8T internals in the 9A block because the 9A block has an 82.5mm bore and the 9A rods = AEB rods.As for the timing belt and tensioner,use the AEB stuff because the 9A is a 220mm block just like the AEB.

_Quote, originally posted by *glaciuz* »_i've over read this topic and i was wondering if its the same thing with a AEG block, since the waterpump is internal, is there anything special to do with this setup?

No,for an AEG block you use the AWP timing belt.Only difference between AEG block and AWP block is the 82.5mm bore vs the 81mm.

_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_I was wondering which head bolts everyone is using for the PG block/20v head

AEB head bolts or a set from Raceware.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*

OK, one problem guys. And i can't access the part # I have right now for it.... but the cam gear i have(16v i believe) is offset wrong... take a look, the belt hangs over towards the head 2-3mm.








what part #'s is everyone using?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (haenszel)*

I am using the stock 20v cam gear on the cam (Mine is AEB). Everything lines up perfectly.
From your picture it looks like you don't have the correct back spacing on the tensioner pulley though? The stock AEB tensioner stud has about 1/4" shoulder that the tensioner loads against which backspaces it away from the head. Looks like it is pulling the belt on the cam and IM shaft cogs in.
You may want to pull your belt off and get above the motor and eye down the edge of the cogs to see what I mean.
Shawn


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

ok, i'll take a look at that. I'm using the 16v tensioner. Maybe I can throw a thick washer in there and line it up.
I'll experiment.


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

is there is diff between the aeb head and the awm head. it seems to me that most people are using the aeb and no ones really said anything about the awm but to me it seems like theres no diff. but i do know that my head has a timing chain tensioner but most of the engines i have seen dont.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (twinrado)*

they all have cam chain tensioners.
AWM should be ~2001.5 audi's which were small port. AEB's are larger intake ports, there's a pic of the difference a few pages back.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_is there is diff between the aeb head and the awm head.

AW"X" heads are all small port.They are great if you want to use an Audi TT 225bhp intake manifold & G60 charger but if your looking @ building a turbo motor with hopes of serious power then an AEB head is what your looking for.


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
AW"X" heads are all small port.They are great if you want to use an Audi TT 225bhp intake manifold & G60 charger but if your looking @ building a turbo motor with hopes of serious power then an AEB head is what your looking for.








 I am Not really looking on making over 300hp so hopefully this will do for me


----------



## jwatts (Mar 11, 2001)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (twinrado)*

the small port head will still make some serious power, though.


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (jwatts)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jwatts* »_the small port head will still make some serious power, though. 

I agree my understanding is that the large port heads are only benifitial to those that are running at high RPMs say 8,000 and above.


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_OK, one problem guys. And i can't access the part # I have right now for it.... but the cam gear i have(16v i believe) is offset wrong... take a look, the belt hangs over towards the head 2-3mm.
what part #'s is everyone using? 

the AEB cam gear and the 16v one have the same part# it looks like you have yours backwards tho


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (PITGUY)*

Camshaft gear part #027 109 111H
CAMSHAFT GEAR, All Models - 4 CYLINDER GAS, DOHC 1991 - 1993 /Passat - 1.8L 1998 - 2000


----------



## oneunicrone (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (PITGUY)*















ok what do i need i have a comple g60 motor and a 8v sicrocco motor and a passat 16v motor and a what do i need beside the 20v head


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (oneunicrone)*

OK, so does anyone acutally have the part # for a 157 or 158 tooth contitech belt with the curvillinear II profile???


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

thanks,
I PMed him, but willing to tag onto anyones order right now, lol
Yeah, I caught that there was no part number after re-reading 20 pages of thread. 
appreciated the help, http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Oil returns revisited. (sdezego)*

sdezego pm sent


----------



## ozzman_g7 (Feb 12, 2003)

*can I use this?*

I have a wrecked beetle 2001 1.8 t six speed, can I use the entire motor, take out the turbo and put the screw compressor in there? how easy can this be done?


----------



## oneunicrone (Jun 26, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

i have a 20v hybrid oil pan with the hybride oil line



_Modified by oneunicrone at 12:22 PM 7-13-2006_


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## fishecuss (Oct 17, 2004)

wizard im'd you just a quick ? can the 2lt 8v block 2e work with the 20v just need to know as lm getting the bits together for my mk2 jetta syncro once my 16v/g60 bahnbrenner charged ones finished.check it out http://www.maddoggsyndicate.com










_Modified by fishecuss at 2:56 PM 7-13-2006_


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (fishecuss)*

2E bottom end is the same as an ABA.


----------



## fishecuss (Oct 17, 2004)

thanx vwpat and thanx wizard


----------



## billabong315 (Jun 1, 2006)

*want to know about pistons*

does anybody know what job number i need for je forged pistons for an aba 20v.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: want to know about pistons (billabong315)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billabong315* »_does anybody know what *job* number i need for je forged pistons for an aba 20v.

job?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: want to know about pistons (billabong315)*


_Quote, originally posted by *billabong315* »_does anybody know what job number i need for je forged pistons for an aba 20v.

I suspect that might be "inside" information for custom cuts. I would just IM rhussjr (Rodney Huss aka JRC Motorsport) and call it a day. Tell him the internals you want to use, the compression ratio, etc and any extras on the pistons and you will be assured the right ones.
S


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

what socket do i need to remove the bolts from my 1.8t awm rods and they dont look like the seperate like the ones in pg block


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_what socket do i need to remove the bolts from my 1.8t awm rods and they dont look like the seperate like the ones in pg block

Forget AWM rods.Try and source some second hand 9A or AEB connecting rods or even a set of SCAT's.The AWM/AWP connecting rods are garbage.


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Forget AWM rods.Try and source some second hand 9A or AEB connecting rods or even a set of SCAT's.The AWM/AWP connecting rods are garbage.
 how much power can they handle i am not looking on making anything over 300hp and whats the size in mm i need to remove the torx bolts?


----------



## PITGUY (Nov 16, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

-------------AEB------------------AWD------------------AWP------------------Scat








if you need AEB rods let me know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (PITGUY)*

I am be told the use the rods from the AEB engine But I have a AWM engine which I am taking apart and i am getting ready for my build up. But i wanted to know What are the real diff's between the 2 rods and will they work with the 20v conversion and pg block.

which acc's pulleys will every body be using with the digi pg setup. which one will attach to the crankgear, water pump and p/s? info would be very important because i havent found it in the forum yet.


_Modified by twinrado at 9:39 PM 7-18-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (twinrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *twinrado* »_which acc's pulleys will every body be using with the digi pg setup. which one will attach to the crankgear, water pump and p/s? info would be very important because i havent found it in the forum yet.


You will use the same setup mentioned all the way through this thread. 16v/20v Crank-Timing Belt Cog, Modified ABA Crank Ribbed V Belt Pulley/Balancer and all of your existing PG accessory pulleys.
Shawn


----------



## danzig20v (Feb 9, 2006)

edit - wrong thread....


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Question - for an ABA bottom with an AEB head, using the Autotech 1.8T adjustable timing gear and the ABA intermediate shaft to run the distributor (with ABA intermediate gear on it), what timing belt should I run and can I use the 8v tensioner ?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Question - for an ABA bottom with an AEB head, using the Autotech 1.8T adjustable timing gear and the ABA intermediate shaft to run the distributor (with ABA intermediate gear on it), what timing belt should I run and can I use the 8v tensioner ?

The ABA (i.e. any 8v) cogs are a trapezoidal tooth, completely different and are only 18mm Width belts. The 16v and 20vs are all Curvilinear II tooth profiles and are 25mm width.
You need a transverse 20v Cam gear gear to use on ABA IM shaft for the Dist (You will need to modify the shaft's keyway slightly). You also need either the 20v or the 16v Crank Cog. You can use your cam gear you bought on the cam. Then the tensioner and the belt... Some are using the 16v tensioner and and isuzu belt but it is not the perfect tooth profile. I am using the later AEB Tensioner (or you can use the Golf 20v tensioner), modifying them so they are Fixed and have a custom belt being cut right now. The belt shoudl be here in about a week. 
159T for the 16v tensioner is perfect
158T with the 20v tensioner mentioned above.
Seriously though, all of this information is clearly spelled out in this thread regarding the 8v Cogs. The info you need for your setup is only a few pages back and I think issam even added it to the first page.
I am feeling generous tonight








Shawn


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Yep your feeling generous, and hopefully the belts will be in soon


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Autotech Gears*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_using the Autotech 1.8T adjustable timing gear and the ABA intermediate shaft to run the distributor

Speaking of Autotech,[email protected] has a couple 52T IM Shaft gears that he did for us in anodised black.Perfect for those who purchased the new 16V/20V adjustable camgear.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Not4show)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Not4show* »_Yep your feeling generous, and hopefully the belts will be in soon









The 157Ts are still on back order from the manufacturer (should be about another week), but brown did not let me down on the 158T








Finally, I have the belt in hand with the correct tooth profile for ABA/AEB/Distributer!


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Finally, I have the belt in hand with the correct tooth profile for ABA/AEB/Distributer!

Awesome http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Do you have a part # for this belt?
More pics from Squeez's project:

_Quote, originally posted by *westcoastjay* »_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

There is no part number as they are not readily available off the shelf. They are Contitech Custom Cut (Width) belts. Since I was able to physically verify these are correct, I ordered a couple extras of each size that are due to ship to me within a week or so.
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_There is no part number as they are not readily available off the shelf. They are Contitech Custom Cut (Width) belts. Since I was able to physically verify these are correct, I ordered a couple extras of each size that are due to ship to me within a week or so.
Shawn

Whats the asking price?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Whats the asking price?

It would be against Vortex policy for me to sell them here even if I make no money on them. Feel free to IM me.
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Feel free to IM me.

IM Sent... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
This would be a definite plus with the Autotech gears.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Autotech Gears (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Speaking of Autotech,[email protected] has a couple 52T IM Shaft gears that he did for us in anodised black.Perfect for those who purchased the new 16V/20V adjustable camgear.

















Any part #'s for this from autotech? I would like to call them and order 1.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Autotech Gears (WolfGTI)*

Thanks for the info - I ordered mine from Autotech.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Autotech Gears (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Speaking of Autotech,[email protected] has a couple 52T IM Shaft gears that he did for us in anodised black.Perfect for those who purchased the new 16V/20V adjustable camgear.


What is the backspacing on this gear?
Another words, is this essentially a 16V Cam gear *OR* is it a Transverse 20V Cam Gear? 
Shawn


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: Autotech Gears (sdezego)*

Has anyone actually ran a AEB/ABA motor????


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Autotech Gears (Not4show)*








. Yes, there are a few.
I just calculated some interesting (to me) info in regards to Throttle Bodies.
*Throttle Body Areas* (Butterfly Only - Excluding, Ramps, Shafts etc):
*G60 (Primary + Secondary)* - 52/34mm = (2122 + 907)mm*2 = *3029mm*2*
*1.8T* (Based on info posted in 1.8T forum that it is 58mm as I don't have this one) - 58mm = *2640mm*2*
*OBD1, OBD2 ABA* - 58mm = *2640mm*2*
*OBD1 Vr* 62mm = *3,017mm*2*
*OBD2 * (Someone Posted as 65, but I measured mine) 68mm = *3.631mm*2*

I am not positive as to what one I will use yet, but likely a de-ramped ABA since I am doing a Blow Through or possibly the OBD1 Vr. Please don't tell me to just use the Vr one unless you have some proof that I should







For any Twin Screw Guys using a Draw through, I can absolutely see using the Vr.
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Autotech Gears (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_is this essentially a 16V Cam gear *OR* is it a Transverse 20V Cam Gear?

Its a fixed 16V Cam Gear so some modification to the IM shaft is needed.
Even though the G60 throttle body has the largest area,you also have to remember it would have the greatest resistance compared to the VR unit.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Autotech Gears (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Even though the G60 throttle body has the largest area,you also have to remember it would have the greatest resistance compared to the VR unit.

Agreed.


----------



## twinrado (Jun 23, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

dump


----------



## mr.yuck (Jun 1, 2006)

*Re: (twinrado)*

someone come into some money cuz i want to see this FINISHED! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## smokinjoe644 (Nov 29, 2001)

*Re: (mr.yuck)*

Not trying to clog up this thread but just wanted to say I still have my AGN Exhaust manifold around if anyone is looking for one. I just want it gone at this point so $200 shipped in the US. PLEASE IM me only dont post in here about it.
Not alot of these in the US, this is for a NA or supercharged setup.... non-turbo 20V exhaust 
Pic for reference, I forgot if there was one up or not.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (smokinjoe644)*


_Quote, originally posted by *smokinjoe644* »_Not trying to clog up this thread but just wanted to say I still have my AGN Exhaust manifold around if anyone is looking for one. I just want it gone at this point so $200 shipped in the US. PLEASE IM me only dont post in here about it.
Not alot of these in the US, this is for a NA or supercharged setup.... non-turbo 20V exhaust 
Pic for reference, I forgot if there was one up or not. 









*bought*


_Modified by WolfGTI at 11:02 AM 8-31-2006_


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

why do this, the 16v 1.8 head will flow almost as well. The cams for a 20v also suck dick. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Digital-K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital-K* »_why do this, the 16v 1.8 head will flow almost as well.


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

like I said though, the cams suck. you are extremely limited in their selection for the 20v....you can have a 1.8 16v head for damn near free, get some 276's in it and have a far better revving engine. hell, for the cost of a nice 20v head you could polish a 1.8 16v head and rebush a bottom end, and bolt it right up to a 9a and go....why bother with all this run around?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Digital-K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital-K* »_like I said though, the cams suck. you are extremely limited in their selection for the 20v

The 16V engine is almost 10 years older than the 20V engine.A wide range of Camshaft selection for the 20V is now becoming available and in time they will be more affordable.


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_The 16V engine is almost 10 years older than the 20V engine.A wide range of Camshaft selection for the 20V is now becoming available and in time they will be more affordable.
























That doesnt convince me I should be doing this now. The reason the camshafts are lame for a 20v are because the lobes are friggin tiny. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (Digital-K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital-K* »_























That doesnt convince me I should be doing this now. The reason the camshafts are lame for a 20v are because the lobes are friggin tiny. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Well have fun in another forum then, keep this thread stricktly for 20V lovers.
Back on topic .Few questions. 
1)Rumor has it the AEB crank and rods are forged. can anyone confirm this.
2)how easy/hard would it be to run a complete AEB longblock on Corrado Digi 1 setup with dizzy?
Cheers fellas, cant wait to start this project!


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: (G'D60)*

sorry didn't mean to poo all over the myopia.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (G'D60)*

Back on topic .Few questions. 
1)Rumor has it the AEB crank and rods are forged. can anyone confirm this.
2)how easy/hard would it be to run a complete AEB longblock on Corrado Digi 1 setup with dizzy?
1. rods yes (all are). crank, only manual is forged.
2. not bad, just use info in thread. Volksport did it a few years ago.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Digital-K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital-K* »_The reason the camshafts are lame for a 20v are because the lobes are friggin tiny. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

Ok dude your making no sense...
Ive shown you a flow chart of a 16V and a 20V.Even with the "tiny" lobes the 20V head flows more so your point is simply mute.


----------



## Digital-K (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Ok dude your making no sense...
Ive shown you a flow chart of a 16V and a 20V.Even with the "tiny" lobes the 20V head flows more so your point is simply mute.

whatever you say, and I think you meant moot.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Assembly has finally begun...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2805002


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Perhaps this is the next logical step when I tire of the ABAt power...instead of throwing money at an 8v head that will never flow these numbers


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

Just a little public service annoucement for those PG users who have plans to upgrade to MS&S or other SEM's and are looking for a cheap hall sensor without upgrading the crankshaft pulley:

_Quote, originally posted by *034 Motorsport distributor block off plate* »_


----------



## TinyMicke (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I'm putting together a 2067cc 20v engine (95.5x83mm), but when I was about to put on my new timingbelt, I found out that the TDI crank gear was not the same as the PL gear.
Is there any crank gear with the correct number of teeth and width that fits the TDI crank?
Hope anyone has some input for me, I can't be the only one using a TDI-crank and 20V head.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (TinyMicke)*

I have no knowledge of the TDi, but from your pics, it does look like you have a predicamnet.
You might have to custom make/modify a cog from the 16v and Pin it to the crank yourself.








Edit: What does the Keyway look like on the later 1.8ts with Chain drive pump? i.e. AWP (PN 06a 105 263 E)
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 3:58 PM 9-6-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TinyMicke)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TinyMicke* »_I found out that the TDI crank gear was not the same as the PL gear.

Where did you get that TDi crank from? Mk3 or Mk4 TDi?


----------



## TinyMicke (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

If I remember correctly it's from a MK3 TDi.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TinyMicke)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TinyMicke* »_If I remember correctly it's from a MK3 TDi.


Take an Image of the crank snout for me please.
Thanks


----------



## TinyMicke (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Here's an image of the crank snout.


----------



## TinyMicke (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (TinyMicke)*

Anybody with a 95.5mm crank that can help me out?


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

What are our best bets for the plugs on a PG block, did we ever figure that out?
I heard someone had an oil leak with the ones listed..


----------



## G'D60 (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: (98vr6t)*

Hey fellas
So i've picked up an AEB 1.8T w/out turbo. I'd like to use stock rods and crank, forged pistons and BIG turbo. My goal is 300-350 hp on Corrado mgmt (digi). 
I dont know jack about Turbos so what kind of snail would i need to acheive this goal? 
Also what turbo mani should i be looking at?
PS. Best thread of all time


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

My .02..
Over 300hp and the stock rods have become a weak point.
For snails? Garrett GT28RS is what I'm looking at.. Or the turbo's used in the kits from ATP, the Elim, I think the GT2X puts out right about 290.. and the next goes upwards of 300..
Not sure about that..
I do know the GT28RS is a popular turbo on the 1.8t..


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (98vr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98vr6t* »_My .02..
Over 300hp and the stock rods have become a weak point.


I don't think that is necessarily the case for AEB's IMHO. Other 20Vs, may be true. Also, I think there are 2 versions of the AEB and wrist pin size etc.
Regardless, if you have the money, buy new rods. SCATS are cheap enough for good insurance, but I have not first hand experience with them on Watercooled VWs. If you add up the price of Resizing stock rods, ARP hardware, shot peening etc, you will be at $200-250 easily. Hard to justify not just buying SCATs.
I can't offer you advise on the turbo, but you may want to spend some time searching in the 1.8T forum. You answer will be there for sure.
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (98vr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TinyMicke* »_Anybody with a 95.5mm crank that can help me out?

I was looking at an ALH crankshaft which uses a chain driven oil pump so it could be modified to fit the external water pump crankshaft pulley.
UPDATE : Your going to have to take the crankshaft to a machine shop and have them modify the snout to fit the gear (16V 26T) you want.

_Quote, originally posted by *98vr6t* »_Over 300hp and the stock rods have become a weak point.

You have to remember the AEB used the same rods as the 9A engine and these rods have been tested to 400+bhp.Its the AWP 1.8T rods you have to worry about.The best advice I could give is to purchase some SCAT units as they are reasonably cheap and are tested to 600+hp on 4-Cylinder engines. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That being said for 350bhp the GT2871R is good for 350bhp on a 1.8T. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_The 157Ts are still on back order from the manufacturer 

Finally, got a couple of the 157Ts and they are perfect!
..and just in time since I think I have changed my mind to go non-Dist








Shawn


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Anyone with a distributor setup - what spark plug wires are you using?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Finally, got a couple of the 157Ts and they are perfect

Just to clarify..
This is the belt for ABA + 16V IM shaft gear + 9A timing belt tensioner?

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Anyone with a distributor setup - what spark plug wires are you using?

What distributor cap are you using?The 16V plug wires are the plug wire of choice.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Just to clarify..
This is the belt for ABA + 16V IM shaft gear + 9A timing belt tensioner?


You are Correct.
The Dist folks must use the 20V tensioner with a Modified tensioner/adjuster becuase it allows the use of a 158T belt as opposed to a 159T belt which would be perfect, but not available (not even custom).
Shawn


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Just to clarify..
This is the belt for ABA + 16V IM shaft gear + 9A timing belt tensioner?
What distributor cap are you using?The 16V plug wires are the plug wire of choice.

8v ABA distributor - which 16v set of wires?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_The Dist folks must use the 20V tensioner with a Modified tensioner/adjuster becuase it allows the use of a 158T belt as opposed to a 159T belt which would be perfect, but not available (not even custom).

So this is the 158T belt?

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_8v ABA distributor - which 16v set of wires?

Did you cut the head?
The 9A plug wires will work fine as pictured below:


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_So this is the 158T belt?


yessir.
I should have a pic of the 157T on the non-Distrubuter setup (16v IM Gear) soon, since I am pretty sure that my mind is fully made up.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
The 9A plug wires will work fine as pictured below:

Just curious. What is the difference between the PL and 9a 16v wires?


----------



## golf198v2.0 (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Just a little public service annoucement for those PG users who have plans to upgrade to MS&S or other SEM's and are looking for a cheap hall sensor without upgrading the crankshaft pulley:

where do you get spark from then? i can see you use the hall for timing as i will on my MS . would it be used for a standalong ignition box?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I'm wondering about modding the tensioner my self, I measured the fixed 2.0 (ABA) stock tensioner and it will accomodate the belt properly, I might use that, since modding the AEB tensioner doesn't seem immediately obvious to me.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Have one custom made
http://media.corrado-club.ca/a...d.jpg


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

Still wondering how to plug the oil passages in the 20v head with 8v/PG block..
Anyone? anyone?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (98vr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98vr6t* »_Still wondering how to plug the oil passages in the 20v head with 8v/PG block..
Anyone? anyone?

Page 2


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_I'm wondering about modding the tensioner my self, I measured the fixed 2.0 (ABA) stock tensioner and it will accomodate the belt properly, I might use that, since modding the AEB tensioner doesn't seem immediately obvious to me.

Are you referring to the Serpentine belt tensioner or the timing belt tensioner?


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Wow this is one of the coolest threads ive read here on vortex for quite some time. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Timing belt tensioner.


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

8v tensioner isnt wide enought IIRC.. ABA's use a narrower belt than 16/20v cars do..


----------



## golf198v2.0 (Nov 6, 2005)

*Re: (psykokid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_8v tensioner isnt wide enought IIRC.. ABA's use a narrower belt than 16/20v cars do..

that is correct. iirc 6mm. smaller.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_What is the difference between the PL and 9a 16v wires?

Didnt think there was one but I could be wrong.Actually I am looking for 4 #1 plug wires right now.

_Quote, originally posted by *golf198v2.0* »_where do you get spark from then?

The coil pack.You use the distributor as a 1-Window Hall for the ecu.

_Quote, originally posted by *98vr6t* »_Still wondering how to plug the oil passages in the 20v head with 8v/PG block..
Anyone? anyone?

Tap it and insert


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Didnt think there was one but I could be wrong.Actually I am looking for 4 #1 plug wires right now.


ok, I am not sure why I was under the impression that there was a difference, but I think you are correct and they are the same.
Also, if you have the plug ends (both) then you can make your own wires. VW uses a Solid Core wire with the resistor Ends that just screw on. You probably already know that. I have changed ends many times to acommodate different lengths as well as change one end to either the pin type cap or the early bucket cap etc.
S


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_I'm wondering about modding the tensioner my self, I measured the fixed 2.0 (ABA) stock tensioner and it will accomodate the belt properly, I might use that, since modding the AEB tensioner doesn't seem immediately obvious to me.

The ABA belt and tensioner is only 18mm width as opposed to 25 for the 16v/20v.
Here are two of my quick ideas for the mods to the 20v tensioner to "affix" it. One is much simpler than the other, but the more complicated is fail proof.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=2 
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I will be running the Timing belt guards and the lower AEB guard will not fit on the 52T IM Shaft Gear for Distrubuter (obviously since the AEB uses a 43T gear like the 9a).

Shawn send TwinScrew20V a pm,he used the AEB lower timing belt covers on his PG bottom end.I am using Autotech gears (on order) so I only plan on running the ABA lower timing belt cover and leaving the upper exposed. (besides the AEB lower timing belt cover is too short for the ABA block).


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I don't tgink the aba lower cover will work I tryed it and for some reason it wouldn't mount. I'm refering to the back side that bolts to the block
Curious what is the 157T belt #?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Shawn send TwinScrew20V a pm,he used the AEB lower timing belt covers on his PG bottom end.I am using Autotech gears (on order) so I only plan on running the ABA lower timing belt cover and leaving the upper exposed. (besides the AEB lower timing belt cover is too short for the ABA block).

I am sure it could have worked if I gutted the inside of the cover and hacked it. I really didn't want to do that.
Yes, the AEB is a tad short, but that is easy to correct. How are you going to use the ABA cover since the cover width is designed to accomodate the 18mm belt width as opposed to the 25mm belt width for the 16/20v? You are going to have to space the whole thing out.
In the end I decided that there is really no reason for me to run Dist, so I will be using the smaller IM gear. I would rather have the oil pump turning faster anyway. All will be perfect and will just need to make up the 15mm gap between the upper and lower covers caused by the tall block. I'll post some pics when I work it all out.
S


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
..snip..
All will be perfect and will just need to make up the 15mm gap between the upper and lower covers caused by the tall block. I'll post some pics when I work it all out.


use the abf timing belt cover, designed for the wider timing belt with a tall block


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (psykokid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_In the end I decided that there is really no reason for me to run Dist, so I will be using the smaller IM gear.

You could have used the Distributor for Hall/VR for your SEM system.Then again you could have also used your VR on the crank and Hall on the cam....

_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_use the abf timing belt cover, designed for the wider timing belt with a tall block

The ABF lower cover works with the AEB upper unit?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_...Then again you could have also used your VR on the crank and Hall on the cam.


DingDingDing









_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_The ABF lower cover works with the AEB upper unit?









Yes, I haven't even pursued this becuase I am almost certain it will not.
S


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Yes, I haven't even pursued this becuase I am almost certain it will not.
S

yeah, durr.. wasnt thinking straight.. how bout using the cover from the ALT engine code 20V motor? its a tall block N/A 20v motor, although its an aluminum block vs cast. Only thing is that you would probably have to source a vavle cover from an ALT engine as well since the cover bolts to the valve cover on an ALT vs just snapping on to the vavle cover on most of the 20v motors..


----------



## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

can anyone tell me for sure that an 02j tranny will bolt up to an ABA (obd1) block without any problems? 
the only reason i ask is because the trannies on mk4s bolt up to the oil pan as well as the block. 
anyone running this setup?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (psykokid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_how bout using the cover from the ALT engine code 20V motor? its a tall block N/A 20v motor, although its an aluminum block vs cast. Only thing is that you would probably have to source a valve cover from an ALT engine as well since the cover bolts to the valve cover on an ALT vs just snapping on to the valve cover on most of the 20v motors..

I am not familiar with that configuration, but for someone who has no covers to start with and wants to run them, it certainly might be worth investigating. They would likely still not be able to run the 52t IM shaft gear for Dist w/o hacking it up, but for the crank trigger folks, it might be an option.
For me, since I have the AEB covers and am no longer going to go Dist, I am going to fab and band to mate the two covers and make up for the small gap.
Shawn


----------



## mmihm06 (Aug 11, 2006)

This is an awesome thread. I have a '96 Jetta 2.0, and I'm considering the 1.8t head swap. I would not go forced induction because I can't justify the extra cash, loss of reliability, and complexity (intercoolers, engine management, tuning etc.). 
I think good numbers can still be had with a high compression, N/A, 1.8t/ABA setup. There's alot of information to sift through in this thread not all pertaining to me, so I may have something wrong or am missing something. 
1) Stock ABA bottom end, custom high compression pistons, 20v cam gear on ABA IM shaft with modified snout. ABA crank pulley with 5.9mm machined off.
2) Timing belt *NAPA PART# 250169* 16v belt tensioner
3) Any code 1.8t cylinder head - Big port head will not benefit my application too much. Modifications outlined in the thread. Matching intake manifold, custom NA header
4) G60 02A tranny. Not necessary, but I don't trust my 020- Too many horror stories
These are the two that I stay awake at night thinking about. There may be a clear answer here in this novel, I may have missed it.
5) Stock 2.0 TB with custom adapter to mount to 1.8t intake. Or should I go VR6 TB?
6) Stock 2.0 ECU/wiring/Dist(peugot cap) with piggyback system such as greddy e-manage (does that unit work on our cars?) or custom chip 
If this setup won't work on stock engine management, it wouldn't really justify the cost and amount of work. If I have to go standalone, I might as well go turbo or drop in a complete 1.8t motor. But I really don't want to open that can of worms. 




_Modified by mmihm06 at 4:03 PM 9-26-2006_


----------



## mmihm06 (Aug 11, 2006)

The many pages of timing belt conversation has left my brain in a haze. Can anyone confirm that the NAPA # on page 1 (250169) is still valid for the 20v cam pullies on the cam and IM and 16v tensioner?
_Modified by mmihm06 at 8:45 AM 9-27-2006_


_Modified by mmihm06 at 11:03 AM 9-27-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (mmihm06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Hater* »_can anyone tell me for sure that an 02j tranny will bolt up to an ABA (obd1) block without any problems?

02J will bolt up to the ABA block without any issues.Its a 02J from a MK4 right?

_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_how bout using the cover from the ALT engine code 20V motor? its a tall block N/A 20v motor

How do you know the ALT is a "tall block".ETKA shows it has 144mm rods as opposed to the 159mm units.
And no the ALT covers wont work because the upper cover bolts to the valve cover and the valve cover bolts completely different to the ALT head in comparison to the AEB/AWP/AWW/etc heads.Also the ALT is an internal water pump block.









_Quote, originally posted by *mmihm06* »_
5) Stock 2.0 TB with custom adapter to mount to 1.8t intake. Or should I go VR6 TB?

The stock ABA throttle body bolts right up to either of the 1.8T intake manifolds.If your going to use a VR6 unit then I would suggest purchasing an aftermarket intake manifold from Racecraft,Jayfab,USRT,etc.

_Quote, originally posted by *mmihm06* »_
6) Stock 2.0 ECU/wiring/Dist(peugot cap) with piggyback system such as greddy e-manage (does that unit work on our cars?) or custom chip

Just cu the head slightl with a die grinder in order to clear the stock ABA distributor cap then use 16V plug wires.For a custom chip talk with Jeffery Atwood as I am sure he can whip up something for you.

_Quote, originally posted by *mmihm06* »_for the 20v cam pullies on the cam and IM and 16v tensioner?

Your going to want a 158T belt and modify a new style tensioner like Shawn:


----------



## The Hater (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_02J will bolt up to the ABA block without any issues.Its a 02J from a MK4 right?

yah, its an o2j from an '01 gti, I just wanted to be sure that there were no issues with the bell housings, I know the tranny bolts up to stock 1.8t oil pan in spots so just wanted to make sure before I take my motor off the stand  thanks for the reassurance.!!


----------



## mmihm06 (Aug 11, 2006)

From what I can find, the 158t Contitech Curvilinear II is a custom piece?
Shawn, you have IM for price check on aisle 10


_Modified by mmihm06 at 11:51 AM 9-27-2006_


----------



## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hopefully I will be joining the fun on Sat......
If the head is still there


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*WolfGTI's ABE*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
















Such a cute distributor...


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*

Started the motor today - runs well - gotta tweak the fueling and ign maps a little. But I'm using a block off plate on the bottom breather and I think the the crankcase pressure is causing oil to seep from the cam seal - anyone have any thoughts? I already replaced the cam seals they were both undamaged. but once the engine warms I am getting oil seepage.


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*

i'd probrably just crack the blockoff plate and put some paper towels around to soak up whatever happens to come out just to check to see if that's the problem.
that said.
sound clips! i have a obd1 aba block and aeb head awaiting your results








oh, and a few of these


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_But I'm using a block off plate on the bottom breather and I think the the crankcase pressure is causing oil to seep from the cam seal - anyone have any thoughts?

Are you venting the valve cover?You need to vent that block some how (I know it does not make sense because your NA)


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Are you venting the valve cover?You need to vent that block some how (I know it does not make sense because your NA)

Drilled and tapped the block off plate - oil seepage appears to have gone away.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Drilled and tapped the block off plate - oil seepage appears to have gone away.

How big of a line/fitting did you run off there?


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (sdezego)*

I think it's 1/2 inch.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*

Sounds good. I had always planned on tapping about 1/2" NPT hose off of there in addition to running the Valve Colver Breather (even though it all connects internally via the rear oil drains and the large front drain). I am glad that it won't be a wasted effort







It makes sense, since VW went through the effort to arrange those lower breathers also in all of the stock plastic non-sense.
Shawn


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_oil seepage appears to have gone away.

Funny enough,Toyota Blacktop 4A-GE's ran an 11:1 CR and never had no block ventilation,only the head.Guess your CR was really high...
updated main page with a little bit of usefullness...
For those who are building a turbo motor and your looking for an OEM Transverse oil pan,The 1.6TD oil pan certainly fits the bill
[PART #:*068 103 601 L*]


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*

good news guys








Started my 2020 the other day, sounds great, no weird noises and it starts/idles/drives perfect



















sorry for the short ****ty videos... but it was 3am








the MS started up 1st try once i figured out what i needed to change on the board to give the coils a +5v trigger signal








I'm so happy.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

Thanks for posting those videos... not that I ever had any doubt that all these parts I'm collecting were going to go to waste... I still feel oddly relieved


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
the MS started up 1st try once i figured out what i needed to change on the board to give the coils a +5v trigger signal










Nice. So, are you running the stock 60-2 Pickup and using the COPs as Wasted Spark? Those are the late 4 wire coils? due tell.
Shawn


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (sdezego)*

yes, 60-2 and 4-pin coils wasted spark. I originally got my MS with 2 VB modules to ground out the coil thinking i could run them backwards as they generally require a triggered voltage. I figured I could send a constant 12v and triggered ground. That did not work. I found a source on the LED's that sends a +5v signal(as required). I completely bypassed the VB modules and it started right up. I have a basemap for a stock 1.8 turbo all set. I'm running 440's and a 60-trim and it works fine out of boost. I havn't hit boost yet to tell if its safe enough to start with there.
Pin1 - switched 12v
pin2 - Ground
pin3 - Triggered +5v(or 12v) -- either works
pin4 - ground (2 wires that bolt to the valve cover)
EDIT: Pins are numbered as looking into the CONNECTOR(pins 1+2 are the BIG wires)
as for the crank trigger I ran stock ABA sensor to a Shielded twisted pair cable(from any electronics store) up to the MS connector then soldered it onto there to keep interference out.
I have coils 1+4 connected to the same trigger, and 2+3 connected to the same trigger source. I'll take pics in a moment to show exactly what I had to modify.
I'm just so relieved it works and doesn't make any weird noises.








I've been following this thread for about a year and a half and it has helped me MANY many times. I bought everythign according to the parts list in this thread.
Thanks guys










_Modified by haenszel at 4:11 AM 10-16-2006_


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (haenszel)*

ok... this is gonna take up a lotta space.








bottom of MS v3 board








Pin 36 connection








Pin 36 LED trigger point








Top of MS v3 board








Pin 31 connection








Pin 31 LED trigger point








Better view of LED connection








Old, now Unused VB modules(one on side panel, and one on heatsink)








hope that helps. Don't mock my soldering skills, it was 2am and I suck. I'm having a friend re-do them this week


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*

I seem to be seeping oil for some reason from the exhaust cam seal. Not sure why, I've already replaced it once.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*

What type/brand seal are you using?
Does the Seal have a double lip with a spring or no? I think the revision is a single lip harder Teflon seal with no spring. I saw there were a few different seals when I was ordering parts a while back and ordered one of each.
LMK the details of the one you are using. Also, is it leaking between the cam and the seal or the seal and the head (Where the seal presses into the head)?
Shawn


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_What type/brand seal are you using?
Does the Seal have a double lip with a spring or no? I think the revision is a single lip harder Teflon seal with no spring. I saw there were a few different seals when I was ordering parts a while back and ordered one of each.
LMK the details of the one you are using. Also, is it leaking between the cam and the seal or the seal and the head (Where the seal presses into the head)?
Shawn

It is the seal with no spring. I think my issue is related to the crankcase pressure - I presently have both the head and the crankcase vented into one catch can, I am going to give them separate catch cans, and replace the seals.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
It is the seal with no spring. I think my issue is related to the crankcase pressure - I presently have both the head and the crankcase vented into one catch can, I am going to give them separate catch cans, and replace the seals.

what kind of catch can? im guessing its a sealed type catch can if your getting excess pressure, drill it and tap it for a barb fittin and run that barb under the car for drain. or throw a mini K&N on it. thatll fix your pressure probs.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*

yea, it definitely may be related to your compression. 
I think I had read something somewhere that there is also a vented type oil cap which may help a tad. Maybe from the Beetle? I could be delusional though.
Any chance that the after marke cam seal surface is small than it should be? Just seems like you would be leaking more places than just the Ex cam seal if it were all due to PCV.
S


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_yea, it definitely may be related to your compression. 
I think I had read something somewhere that there is also a vented type oil cap which may help a tad. Maybe from the Beetle? I could be delusional though.
Any chance that the after marke cam seal surface is small than it should be? Just seems like you would be leaking more places than just the Ex cam seal if it were all due to PCV.
S

The cam seal is not aftermarket - I bought all VW stuff from the dealer (have a good friend there who makes things cheap).


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_The cam seal is not aftermarket - I bought all VW stuff from the dealer (have a good friend there who makes things cheap). 

I should have used some punctuation there... corrected it below.

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Any chance that the aftermarket cam*'s* seal*ing* surface is smaller than it should be? i.e. not the correct Diameter.

Did you also use the plastic oil guards over the cams or was your lift to big to use them?
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
I think I had read something somewhere that there is also a vented type oil cap which may help a tad. Maybe from the Beetle? I could be delusional though

Yes its from the Bettle








How are you venting the block Mendra?


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*

is that what that cap's for?





























I took mine off the beetle and put the cap directly onto the valvecover.....i'm gonna throw that on the GTI now








thanks


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
How are you venting the block Mendra?

The block is vented by a 3/4 inch barb tapped into the TT blockoff plate. I had the hose from the head and the hose from the block venting into the same catch can. I have decided to separate them each in its own breather tank and see what happens, I suspect the problem will be solved now.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*

haha, that is funny. I can't say that I haven't at least thought about mounting the alt like that as opposed to the back of the head, but dismissed the thought in fear of it looking too ghetto.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_The block is vented by a 3/4 inch barb tapped into the TT blockoff plate. I had the hose from the head and the hose from the block venting into the same catch can. I have decided to separate them each in its own breather tank and see what happens, I suspect the problem will be solved now.

Well you could always use a Vortex like VWMS...I mean your 90% there


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Well you could always use a Vortex like VWMS...I mean your 90% there

















What is this Vortex you speak of?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*catch can*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_What is this Vortex you speak of?

The Catch can on the fire wall:


_Quote, originally posted by *034 Motorsport - Vortex Crankcase Breather/Seperator* »_

High quality, aluminum breather/catch can for venting crankcase gases and fumes. Stock applications recirculated blow-by, moisture and oil vapor fumes back into the intake, these fuel, oil and water byproducts condense in the intake track creating a sludy mess and lower the octane rating of fuel. 
By directing crankcase gases into the cannister at a tangent, a vortex is created that flings heavinger oil and water particles to the outside of the cannister, which can then be allowed to drain back into the block, or redirected into a catch can for disposal.


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

Hey guys,
I'm getting so close with my build but I've got just one thing I can't figure out right now..
How the hell do I mount the alternator on the PG block with 8v brackets and the AEB head..
Do I need the PG/G60 brackets?
With the alternator on the 8v it was bolted to the head.. Now there is no place to bolt it..
Anybody?
Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (98vr6t)*

Are you going to run A/C and Powersteering? That makes all the difference.
Shawn


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

No just essentials, no PS and no A/C.
I'm looking for the easiest possible setup but the one that is also the most cost effective..


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (98vr6t)*

Then the easiest and best IMO is certainly the above ABF one that Issam shows. It is adjustable so no need for any tension roller or self adjuster, etc.
S



_Modified by sdezego at 5:24 PM 10-25-2006_


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

Yeah that seems best, the bracket itself is not expensive, just getting the right alternator is..
For reference..
ABF Bracket
ABA Hardware
VR6 Water pump pulley
ABA Crank pulley
Napa Belt: Part number unknown at this time.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (98vr6t)*

In case anyone is planning on changing directions Mid stream as I did (Dist vs COP or WS) or in case you just enjoy saving a few $s, here is a tip.
If you plan on running the 16v Oil pump drive Gear and dist block off setup you can swap the Shafts from an old 9a oil Pump into the much less expensive ABA oil pump. I don't think the PL has the recess notch on the Oil pump shaft becuase it does not have clearance issues as the 2Liters do, but irregardless.
Pics tell the story. oh, yea, you MUST have a press!
Click pics to enlarge:



 


_Modified by sdezego at 2:25 PM 10-28-2006_


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (98vr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98vr6t* »_Yeah that seems best, the bracket itself is not expensive, just getting the right alternator is..
For reference..
ABF Bracket
ABA Hardware
VR6 Water pump pulley
ABA Crank pulley
Napa Belt: Part number unknown at this time.

The belt that works with the above setup is: 35.5" 6PK903 Gates part number K060355.


----------



## 98vr6t (Jun 22, 2005)

Awesome thanks psykokid..
Does this setup work with my 16v crank gear on the 8v blck? Anyone know?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (98vr6t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *98vr6t* »_Awesome thanks psykokid..
Does this setup work with my 16v crank gear on the 8v blck? Anyone know?

Yes but you need to machine the ABA crankshaft accessory pulley 5.9mm.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Added this to my build page, but figured that I would add it here too.
Enjoy...
Another week out of town on business, but made some progress in the machine shop today. Here is my way of modifying the ABA serp pulley for the wider 16v/20v belt.
- Total cut was ~5.8mm
- .001" press fit
- perfectly eccentric and uses stock crank centering








- perfectly balanced
Click for larger pics:


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Sean did you try fitting the Lower timing belt cover over the 52T IM shaft gear before you switched to the smaller gear?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yes, I tried, but it was not even close. You probabaly have to cut more off than you would leave.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Yes, I tried, but it was not even close. You probabaly have to cut more off than you would leave.

Notice anything about this image?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

A few things:
- Longitudinal
- Tall Block Hybrid using stock Timing belt covers (Gap between them)
- Dry Sump setup
- Some kind of interesting belt setup


----------



## kindbudz91G60 (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Yes its from the Bettle








How are you venting the block Mendra?

Dunno if this helps U guys on the 20V forum, but I can't see why not. Here's my solution:


The hole in the middle is my positive crankcase breather, since the BBM 2.0 beetle breather is GAY! This is plumbed into the charger return lines...
From my build thread: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2924071


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: WolfGTI's ABE (kindbudz91G60)*

yea, a lot of they guys have used that idea. Someone (I forget) actually makes that piece in AL, but you need to tap and make your own breather nipple. That is what I am using.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_yea, a lot of they guys have used that idea. Someone (I forget) actually makes that piece in AL, but you need to tap and make your own breather nipple. 

That would be Peter Tong.Nice work on the rear charger bracket,I have a similar unit for sale that I built for the ABA block if anyone is interested.
P.S. I updated the first post on the main page to include your separate project threads and such.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Who's setup is that?


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (sdezego)*

thats a scirocco from england if I remember correctly. It was built at least 5 years ago because I had viewed the pics back when I was kicking the idea of the A>W around


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Who's setup is that?

Not sure whose it is.Its a nice build but clearly too much "show" factor


----------



## 13LG60 (Dec 11, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

It might be Jabbasports G60-20v?


----------



## infront (Dec 19, 2003)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*

http://vzone.virgin.net/paul.r...o.htm
I just google'd Jabbasport images.
I never saw that car completed in the flesh or these pics, I like! It was definitely up Jabba's street what with a chargecooler etc. 
Sweet! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Right part #,wrong engine code.ADR is the Naturally Aspirated Audi A4.The engine code your looking for is *AGN* which is the Naturally Aspirated Audi A3/VW Golf.
To me it would be cheaper to build your own rather than importing one as they are getting EXPENSIVE to source now and I am sure a nice 4 into 1 unit from a 
A header like this would be more fitting in the price department...









where did this thing come from and where can i get one?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1,3LG60* »_It might be Jabbasports G60-20v?

Anyone know whatever happened to Jabbasport?

_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_where did this thing come from and where can i get one?

Monster007 in the fabrication forums


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

i was just thinking... can u use 20v pistons in any of the later blocks? like a pg, or an older 16v 1.8 block?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_i was just thinking... can u use 20v pistons in any of the later blocks? like a pg, or an older 16v 1.8 block?

Once its 81mm bore then yes.If you use the PG block,make sure you use the 144mm rods


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

whats the bore on the 1.8 16v block (PL?) and the pg?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*

All VW 1.8L are 81mm x 86.4mm Stroke. The differences were the the Rod ratio (Rod Length) which dictates the pistons. Most (if not all) 1.8L used 144mm rods except for the PG which used 136mm rods.
Shawn


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_All VW 1.8L are 81mm x 86.4mm Stroke. The differences were the the Rod ratio (Rod Length) which dictates the pistons. Most (if not all) 1.8L used 144mm rods except for the PG which used 136mm rods.
Shawn

thats cause the PG have those extremely long pistons/ringlands right? i noticed that about them... maybe i could get a drop in set of g60 pistons /w the valve relief cut into them.... or even just get the valve relief cut into the stock ones since they look beefy enough... anyone know how much abuse the g60 piston can take? similer to the 2L 16v piston?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*

Technically the Rods are shorter because of the large Piston Crowns and ring lands. This was because the PG was built from the Diesel and is built like a brick **** house to withstand the abuse from a Turbo Diesel.
Don't know how you plan on using them regardless. Look at the Head CV of an 8v ~33cc and the Head CV of a 20v ~43 iirc.
Get the right set of pistons and do it once. There are even some good 1.8T pistons floating around the classifieds. Check them out. Especially the AEBs which have better rods and larger wrist pins.
just my .02c
S


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Technically the Rods are shorter because of the large Piston Crowns and ring lands. This was because the PG was built from the Diesel and is built like a brick **** house to withstand the abuse from a Turbo Diesel.
Don't know how you plan on using them regardless. Look at the Head CV of an 8v ~33cc and the Head CV of a 20v ~43 iirc.
Get the right set of pistons and do it once. There are even some good 1.8T pistons floating around the classifieds. Check them out. Especially the AEBs which have better rods and larger wrist pins.
just my .02c
S

thanks for the advice... yes i've seen ceramic and moly coated aeb pistons and rods floating around all the time.... might go that route with new rings and a rehone in a pg block... maybe 2.0 crank?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*

The minute you stroke it, you are back into complications and needing custom pistons.
There is a current build in the 20v forum of an AEB Stroker which would be pretty much the same thing you are talking with the PG.
S


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*

if i were to stroke it i think i would use an aba anyways, that way i'd have the factory crank angle sensor in case i decide to put in my other car equipped with 034efi...
im just looking for something easy to put a aeb block on a pg bottom... im wondering about just notching the stock pg pistons... maybe just take the head and block to a shop with the headgasket and say, i need these pistons notched for this head... lol


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_
im just looking for something easy to put a aeb block on a pg bottom... im wondering about just notching the stock pg pistons... maybe just take the head and block to a shop with the headgasket and say, i need these pistons notched for this head... lol
that would be way too low compression. For a 1.8, just use 1.8T pistons.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_For a 1.8, just use 1.8T pistons.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Get some cheap SCAT rods ($315US) & AEB pistons and you will be good to go.
Some really useful technical information I stumbled upon:

_Quote, originally posted by *Setting the Timing Chain on the 20V* »_
































*Notes: *
When installing the camshafts the cams for No. 1 Cyl. must point upwards. 
When installing the bearing caps, make sure that the cap markings can be read from the inlet side of the cylinder head. 
Install drive chain onto both camshafts relevant to the colored markings.
*Notes:* 
If a new drive chain is used, the distance between notches-A-and-B-in camshafts must be *16 rollers* of the drive chain. 
The figure shows where on the sprockets the 1st and 16th rollers must be placed. 
Notch-A-is offset slightly to the inside relative to chain roller-1-
Replace rubber/metal seal for camshaft adjuster or chain tensioner and lightly coat hatched area with sealant "D 454 300 A2". 
Slide camshaft adjuster or chain tensioner between drive chain. 
Oil running surfaces of both camshafts. 
Place camshafts with drive chain and camshaft adjuster or chain tensioner in cylinder head. 
Tighten camshaft adjuster or chain tensioner to 10 Nm (remember dowel sleeves).
Tighten inlet and exhaust camshaft 2nd and 4th bearing caps using alternate and cross-over sequence to 10 Nm (take note of dowel sleeves......
if you made it this far tighten everything else up to 10 nm 
Recheck position of camshafts relative to one another-arrows-. The rest of the assembly is basically a reverse of the disassembling sequence.


----------



## mmihm06 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*

Would they have to be "AEB" pistons, or could they be any piston from the 1.8t family? Or would you use the corresponding pistons with the particular head you use?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (mmihm06)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mmihm06* »_Would they have to be "AEB" pistons, or could they be any piston from the 1.8t family? Or would you use the corresponding pistons with the particular head you use? 

All the Piston crowns from the "1.8T Family" are the same.The problem arrises when you use the pistons from the newer style blocks (internal water pump) as they have a 19mm wrist pin...not 20mm.
What does this mean?Simple...the connecting rods that go with the 19mm wrist pin pistons are weak.Thats why I recommend AEB pistons as the 20mm wrist pin gives you alot more options in the connecting rod department.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Some really useful technical information I stumbled upon:


Thanks! I am going to be needing this real soon


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_that would be way too low compression. For a 1.8, just use 1.8T pistons.

so could i use... 1.8 16v block... /w aeb pistons+rods, plug the 3 ports on my aeb head, oem headgasket (16v headstuds/headbolts?) and i'd be good to go right?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*

Yes, you should be able to use the AEB pistons/rod combo in any 1.8L. 
Not sure what HG would be better PG or PL, but I am thinking the one for the block (if they are even different) you are using as long as it is Multilayer metal. I bought one of every Flavor to check for myself on the 2L setup. The ABA (ABA Block) is the best option for me.
You can not use 16v head studs for the AEB. You need to use either OEM bolts (Very sufficient) or bone up for Raceware's. They are not cheap.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_or bone up for Raceware's. They are not cheap.
S

I wish ARP would make a set.I cant stand seeing a set of 16V ARP's go for $110US then seeing a set of raceware's go for $200us+


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I wish ARP would make a set.I cant stand seeing a set of 16V ARP's go for $110US then seeing a set of raceware's go for $200us+









wow thats crazy, just about $300 /w shipping from 034 for those of you outside of cali...
so oem bolts will do me nicely


----------



## jmaddocks (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_whats the bore on the 1.8 16v block (PL?) and the pg?

This is a good website for engine dimensions:
http://www.not2fast.com/vw/stuff/vw_engines.shtml


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (jmaddocks)*

All of the 1.8L blocks are 81mm and 2L blocks are 82.5mm


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (psykokid)*

so im still not understanding how to use the digi1 distributor.... put in an 8v intermediate shaft, and mod the 16v int. shaft pulley to fit?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (the4ork)*

It is on Page1's summary: 
you can use the IM shaft that came with your motor and cut the keyway slot all the way through to accept the 20v Transverse CAM gear (since it has the keyway build into the sprocket similar to the 16v). It will give you the correct backspacing and the correct timing belt width (i.e. 16v/20v) and is 52T to give you a 1:2 ratio with the crank as needed for Dist.
Same mod as shown in this thread and in the pics in my build thread
Shawn


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (1,3LG60)*

so whats the CR on the aeb pitons/rods in the pg block /w the aeb head, same as stock aeb right? 9:1ish?


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*

DOes anyone have a base map for an AEB 2.0 turbo on megasquirt??


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Not4show)*

Anyone who needs any information on the different BOSCH Coolant Sensors is urged to check out the thread that I just created -> 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2975062 

A pic or 2 to grab the "non-readers" attention


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_so whats the CR on the aeb pitons/rods in the pg block /w the aeb head, same as stock aeb right? 9:1ish?

Depends on the headgasket you use.What HG are you going to be using?

_Quote, originally posted by *Not4show* »_DOes anyone have a base map for an AEB 2.0 turbo on megasquirt??

Send need_a_Vr6 a pm.

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Anyone who needs any information on the different BOSCH Coolant Sensors is urged to check out the thread that I just created -> 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2975062 

Awesome work as usual Shawn http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thread update:
Looks like Frank decided to join in the fun with some uber rare parts (AGN valve cover).He is using a 225bhp Audi TT manifold on a 220mm block.As you can see this requires a spacer to raise the intake manifold slightly so that it clears the G60 charger.









_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

saved


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

*Belt routing for people mounting the alternator behind the head*
I've been running couple ideas through my head on the belt routing and both ways that I'm satisfied with only give me 90 or 110 degrees of belt wrap on the crank pulley. But the tensioner setup will be very easy to fab. 
I'm planning on mounting a TDI 120amp alternator behind the head.








The other route is the same but without the idler pulley on the back of the block



_Modified by G60ING at 2:57 PM 12-16-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (G60ING)*









I laugh, because we think alike. I have mocked up similar routings. I was looking at the 1.8T timing belt relay roller, but I didn;t think I could trust it because it looks so chincy. 
I was hoping to re-arrange some things and not have to run the Alt behind the head, but alas, there is pretty much no way while retaining A/C and P/S. I almost had room using the 1.8T alternator and using a relay shaft to mount the Alt under the intake between the rear charger and front charger bracket, but it was going to be too much work to make the clearance happen. The relay shaft pulley would have been close to the stock location of the alt pulley.
I was waiting until I got the head on permanently to finalize my thoughts.
Are you going to use the LTD Alt mount? I was going to look to try and get some dimension from it even though I would have to account for the additional 15mm for the ABA block.
S


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_








I laugh, because we think alike. I have mocked up similar routings. I was looking at the 1.8T timing belt relay roller, but I didn;t think I could trust it because it looks so chincy. 
I was hoping to re-arrange some things and not have to run the Alt behind the head, but alas, there is pretty much no way while retaining A/C and P/S. I almost had room using the 1.8T alternator and using a relay shaft to mount the Alt under the intake between the rear charger and front charger bracket, but it was going to be too much work to make the clearance happen. The relay shaft pulley would have been close to the stock location of the alt pulley.
I was waiting until I got the head on permanently to finalize my thoughts.
Are you going to use the LTD Alt mount? I was going to look to try and get some dimension from it even though I would have to account for the additional 15mm for the ABA block.
S

I plan to make my own limited bracket since I'll be using a MK4 TDI ALternator so I can have all three of my VWs with the same alternator. Plus its 120amps
But I'll be cheating. I plan to take a MK4 accessory bracket, chop it and then weld the alternator section onto the top of a piece of al shaped like the wood in the picture. Then its just a matter of a little reinforcement and belt alignment. 
I'm almost done fabing the belt tensioner out of wood so I can have a friend make it out of Al. Its very simple as it retains the stock swing arm. 
all in all the alternator and tensioner seem to be fairly easy. I don't know why everybody make it a big deal or why they buy a $1500 kit.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_
I'm planning on mounting a TDI 120amp alternator behind the head.









Why dont you use 9A timing belt tensioners so that you can eliminate the stock G60 unit?
p.s. I see an AEB oil pan.Is that a small port head or a big port head?


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Why dont you use 9A timing belt tensioners so that you can eliminate the stock G60 unit?
p.s. I see an AEB oil pan.Is that a small port head or a big port head?
large port and because I'm keeping it G60


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_large port

You going to match port the TT intake manifold?


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You going to match port the TT intake manifold?

nope. most likely the spacer but for now I want to get all of the critial parts together.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_
I plan to make my own limited bracket since I'll be using a MK4 TDI ALternator so I can have all three of my VWs with the same alternator. Plus its 120amps
But I'll be cheating. I plan to take a MK4 accessory bracket, chop it and then weld the alternator section onto the top of a piece of al shaped like the wood in the picture. Then its just a matter of a little reinforcement and belt alignment. 
I'm almost done fabing the belt tensioner out of wood so I can have a friend make it out of Al. Its very simple as it retains the stock swing arm. 
all in all the alternator and tensioner seem to be fairly easy. I don't know why everybody make it a big deal or why they buy a $1500 kit. 

Yep, same here except I don't have the 120A (yet). I picked up the AEB Alt and Accessory Bracket and plan on cutting the Alt mount off, welding it to some AL plate Stock and fabbing my own rear alt mount. Just ordered the AL plate stock last week so things should start moving.
Frank, too bad you don't live closer, I'd let you use it
















S



_Modified by sdezego at 11:01 AM 12-17-2006_


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Frank, too bad you don't live closer, I'd let you use it
















S

_Modified by sdezego at 11:01 AM 12-17-2006_

Fortunatly my local VW peeps look out for me and either let me borrow their welders for tacking parts together so I can take them to a friend that is professional welder or I can take the parts to them. 
BTW I finished my belt tensioner moch up. Its so simple. I surprised I've heard of such horror stories about it. and even after finishing it I figured a away to make it even simpler to construct. I'll post pics later. I'm making progress on the getting the DZSL SLC back together


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

damn i want to borrow that welder!


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*

Well, pulled the motor out of the current shell to swap into a jetta.... 
Seems like the oil galley plugs are leaking. There's oil all down the back of the block. So I'm gonna pull the head and use some teflon paste on them, unless anyone has any other suggestions?
also, what was the torque spec for the plugs again?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_So I'm gonna pull the head and use some teflon paste on them, unless anyone has any other suggestions?

Weld them shut...thats what I did.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

a friend of mine recently aquired a mkIV 2.0 motor....
and i have an obd1 forged crank too....
hmm... custom pistons, new bearings all around, arp bolts, 2.0 hg and aeb head bolts and call it a day?
what are the 20/20 pistons running now these days? $500 or so?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_Well, pulled the motor out of the current shell to swap into a jetta.... 
Seems like the oil galley plugs are leaking. There's oil all down the back of the block. So I'm gonna pull the head and use some teflon paste on them, unless anyone has any other suggestions?
also, what was the torque spec for the plugs again?









yep, if you look back a few pages where I show how the headgasket matches up to the head, you will see that welding the head is the only proper way. The 3 center plugs are likely not bypassing oil past the threads if they were done properly, bout could be leaking from this area from the headbolts/headgasket becuase of the crush zones. Also, if you look at those pics, you will see that there is no way the corner oil drains are going to properly seal w/o modification. There is also an issue with the front drain that needs to be rectified as the basket will not seal the head properly w/o building that out a tad as well.
I will have full pics soon of my head and the work that I am doing.
on a side note, I also acquired a few other headgasket (AEB, AEG, etc) just to see if there would be a better option for crush zones, but there are not. For the 2020, the ABA HG is the only viable option.
Shawn


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

ok so weld and then have someone true the surface of the head I presume?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*

yes. Head needs to come completely apart, preheated, welded and then resurfaced afterward.
S


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Earlier on there was talk about how the rear oil drains overlap the crush zones a bit on the headgasket, figured I'd just show exactly how that is.
This is off my 2020, leaking rear drains, the overlap on the crush zones, as well as off the back of the block can be clearly seen:









EDIT: I also noticed this too, the 2 corner galleys miss the crush zone by almost 100%........ gonna need a lip welded up in there.








edit: also, sorry for the ****ty paint cut-n-paste, i just reinstalled windows and don't have Photoshop on it yet







-- I'm not gonna put in the time to make it look pretty








_Modified by haenszel at 2:02 AM 12-29-2006_


_Modified by haenszel at 2:06 AM 12-29-2006_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*

You definitely confirmed what I have been saying. I hope to have my head done in the next week of so if I get the time.
Basically, it involves welding all of the oil holes partially or fully and re-drilling. I also have a plan to cross drill to drain the center holes.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Basically, it involves welding all of the oil holes partially or fully and re-drilling.

The 3 middle holes I had welded but the 2 end holes were fine.This seems wierd that only Brain had a problem with them.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
This seems wierd that only Brain had a problem with them.

Hell, its my luck. But that DOES seem very incorrect to everyone else right?
Its ok, the head's out for welding/machining now. Doing springs and retainers while its apart


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
Hell, its my luck. But that DOES seem very incorrect to everyone else right?
Its ok, the head's out for welding/machining now. Doing springs and retainers while its apart










I know one person reported leaking (Forget who) I am sure there are others who have either run into this problem after the fact and never mentioned anything, or didn't/don't realize they have a problem yet.

Reposted from page 23. 


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Whelp, this project is full of surprises. I don't take anything for granted and closely inspect everything every step of the way. I have read about plugging the 3 oil drains on the back of the head and someone that also modified the one Front drain a bit to get a better seal, but I have determined that more mods are needed.
You are looking at the OBDI ABA HG and the HG fits the outer edge of the block perfectly. The other 2 real oil drains need to be modified as well to ensure a proper seal. Looks like I will be taking the TIG to it after all.
This may be a good reason why others have reported leaking.












































_Modified by sdezego at 12:13 PM 12-31-2006_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I know one person reported leaking (Forget who) I am sure there are others who have either run into this problem after the fact and never mentioned anything, or didn't/don't realize they have a problem yet.

So whats your fix?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

In the process now, just too many things going on at once. I finally had a chance to finish the install of Megaaquirt on my current setup and am in the process of tuning. Fired right up and had it idling perfectly rock steady with 42# injectors @ 3 Bar in about 5 minutes







...needless to say it did not idle like this with Digi. 
Here is what I am working on with the head and should have some more pics in the next few days.
I ordered up some T6 AL Rod(s) and I am going to cut some short discs and knock into the head drain holes and then plug weld flush with the head's gasket surface. The corner holes, as well as the right front drain, will be angle drilled from the drain holes in the gasket to the drain holes in the head. This will align the crush surfaces on the gasket properly with the head.
This next step is really what I consider an optional one, but since I am already welding on the head, it is not much more work. I am going to interconnect the 4 rear oil drains via oil galleys. This is to prevent any oil pooling near the exhaust valve guide seals from plugging the 3 center oil drains. 1 will be connected to the rear corner and 2 will be connected to the front corner. This requires filling the areas shown below hatched in red and then cross drilling 2 galley holes (one from the front of the head and one from the rear) to interconnect the oil drains. These do not need to be big. A 1/8" pipe plug at the front and back of the head will then plug these pilot holes (just like the factory did for the lifter Oil Galleys)


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Well, the friend Shop I sent it to came back and said they don't feel comfortble welding the head for me.
Anyone know what they are doing willing to help me out?








Its either that or I'm just gonna plug it w/teflon paste and hope for the best.


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (haenszel)*

take it to a professional welder and then to the machine shop.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (G60ING)*

I did take it to a professional welder. haha.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*

Welding on the head is certainly not the first preference, but if you want it done right, it is the only option. I have welded a few VW heads before with great success. Whenever welding a head, you have to take precautions to make sure a seat does fall out, etc.
Preheat the heat, weld and slow cool. You will also need to/should shave it just to clean up the HG surface when done.
The only other less attractive option that will take a lot of work is to machine the drains so they are perfectly round. Take some T6 AL rod and die some threads on it and tap the drains. Loctite the threads and insert. Machine gasket surface and then re drill the corner drain holes. The problem is that you will/may end up with one side that has only a small amount of material biting into the head still on the corner drains. Also, you may have issues trying to do this on the left front drain for reasons that will be obvious if you look at it closely. It can be done though as I have looked at this closely but am opting to weld.
S


----------



## Digital:K (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (sdezego)*

why not do a 16v ABA? the 20v head doesnt flow that much better.







What are the advantages of the 20v head that its worth all this work?


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (Digital:K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital:K* »_why not do a 16v ABA? the 20v head doesnt flow that much better.







What are the advantages of the 20v head that its worth all this work?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Digital:K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital:K* »_why not do a 16v ABA? the 20v head doesnt flow that much better.







What are the advantages of the 20v head that its worth all this work?

You asked the same question back on Page 25 and you were given the EXACT same answer.
If your going to persist on being a nuisance then let me know in advance so I can give you a head start to your 3rd screen name.
Thanks


----------



## Digital:K (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You asked the same question back on Page 25 and you were given the EXACT same answer.
If your going to persist on being a nuisance then let me know in advance so I can give you a head start to your 3rd screen name.
Thanks

nope, being for real looking for facts here, not trying to be abrasive like last time. Sorry if I cam off as an ******* back then...and it would probably be the 5th or 8th screen name actually....just looking for more constructive facts this time around








The chart is interesting. How much bigger can you take the valves on a 20v? I'd be interested to see the CFM's on a big valve 16v head compared to the 20v head.




_Modified by Digital:K at 5:44 PM 1-8-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Digital:K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital:K* »_
The chart is interesting. How much bigger can you take the valves on a 20v? I'd be interested to see the CFM's on a big valve 16v head compared to the 20v head.

1mm oversize

_Quote, originally posted by *Digital:K* »_interesting, but doesnt show the values for a big port 16v.

Because there is no such thing....There are actually 2 versions of the 20V head.Now if you want to compare apples to apples then a Ported 20V > "big port 16V"


----------



## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

If you want to rehash the 16v vs 20v debate start another topic as it was answered back on page 25 and this topic isn't about that decision.


----------



## Digital:K (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (iThread)*

carry on.


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (Digital:K)*

I remember a CFM chart on porttuning's website that showed a stage 5 ported 16V head flowed less then a stock AEB head. That is one of the reason why I'm going 20V. The biggest reason is the fact that the entire 20v motor was made for boost so there is no reason for pistons, spacers, or shorty custom intake manifolds.


----------



## Digital:K (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_I remember a CFM chart on porttuning's website that showed a stage 5 ported 16V head flowed less then a stock AEB head. That is one of the reason why I'm going 20V. The biggest reason is the fact that the entire 20v motor was made for boost so there is no reason for pistons, spacers, or shorty custom intake manifolds. 


interesting....anyone have a bearing on what my compression would be if I swapped to a 20v head? I have 16v ABA w/ 12.5:1 compression pistons at the moment.


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_....is the fact that the entire 20v motor was made for boost 


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital:K* »_

interesting....anyone have a bearing on what my compression would be if I swapped to a 20v head? I have 16v ABA w/ 12.5:1 compression pistons at the moment.

you don't read very well


----------



## Digital:K (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_
you don't read very well









I wasnt asking if it would be good for boost, I was wondering what my compression would sit at w/ the 20v head. 


_Modified by Digital:K at 6:22 PM 1-8-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Digital:K)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital:K* »_
I wasnt asking if it would be good for boost, I was wondering what my compression would sit at w/ the 20v head.

20V head chamber cc = 42cc
16V head chamber cc = 49cc
expect the CR to be relatively close +/- 1.0 to what you have right now.


----------



## Digital:K (Dec 18, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
20V head chamber cc = 42cc
16V head chamber cc = 49cc
expect the CR to be relatively close +/- 1.0 to what you have right now.

something to think about. thanks.


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Digital:K)*

yay i recently aquired an AEG block i think (mkIV style with the extra drains)


----------



## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

its just chillin at a friends house...


----------



## jdm_mike (Jan 10, 2007)

*Re: (the4ork)*

I have one of those blocks, it's just a big paper weight, waiting for the day i actually work on it


----------



## Stakis (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hello, I am suprised of the amount of info you gathered together. But I miss concrete info. I have a complete PG engine with turbo conversion in golf mk3. But Of inproper tuning, the psitons were damaged... Also I have 1.8t head with large ports . So, I have these plans, to fit a complete 1.8T engine with big turbo or to make a hybrid. As i said I will turbo it. And plans are safe 300whp (350 crank). I mean safe, because the car is everyday street driven. Please specialist help me and tell what would be the best start for me. I have an ability to use custom engine management (i don't want to use original coil packs







) . Also, it would be better to use some kind of the stock pistons - VW/AUDI ones, because of limited budget.. And as i gathered some info, stock 1.8T with forged crankshaft and 9.5:1 holds 330-350hp normaly, as you write ABA also holds even more safely with stock internals.. So please give me an advice and a list of parts I will need for my hybrid Golf - killer







Thank you very much. 
P.S. What about oil pump and oil leakage with ABA/20V conversions? Who have pushed such hybrid to 400hp? Please share your knowledge

_Modified by Stakis at 2:40 AM 1-29-2007_


_Modified by Stakis at 2:45 AM 1-29-2007_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_Earlier on there was talk about how the rear oil drains overlap the crush zones a bit on the headgasket, figured I'd just show exactly how that is.
This is off my 2020, leaking rear drains, the overlap on the crush zones, as well as off the back of the block can be clearly seen:










I finally started welding up my head over the weekend and got about 98% done until I ran out of Argon... After the head slow cooled, I started inspecting the gasket some more and saw issues with the crush zones and the rear head *coolant passages*. The 2L ABA gasket dips in behind each cylinder for some reason which causes problems on the AEB head. sigh... I was so focused on oil drains that I had initially overlooked (or failed to inspect that aspect closely). I decided to come back to this thread again to look at Nate's head to see if he did any additional welding there out of curiosity and saw your below picture. You are showing the issues I had been mentioning for quite a while with the oil drains, but if you show a closeup of the areas behind the Cylinders, you should see a similar type of issue with the coolant passages. You should see the crush zone dip in toward the cyl bore and were likely not sealing the way they should...
I'll have pics soon, I promise...
Shawn


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

I ran mine for near 100miles and had no coolant leaking issues.
Looking at the used gasket some more it seems like it was fine to me.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stakis* »_ I have an ability to use custom engine management (i don't want to use original coil packs







) . Also, it would be better to use some kind of the stock pistons - VW/AUDI ones, because of limited budget.. And as i gathered some info, stock 1.8T with forged crankshaft and 9.5:1 holds 330-350hp normaly, as you write ABA also holds even more safely with stock internals.. So please give me an advice and a list of parts I will need for my hybrid Golf - killer







Thank you very much.
 
1.8T pistons wont work in an ABA block.Which block's do you have available to you?

_Quote, originally posted by *Stakis* »_
P.S. What about oil pump and oil leakage with ABA/20V conversions? Who have pushed such hybrid to 400hp? Please share your knowledge


Stock oil pump is fine. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_You are showing the issues I had been mentioning for quite a while with the oil drains, but if you show a closeup of the areas behind the Cylinders, you should see a similar type of issue with the coolant passages. You should see the crush zone dip in toward the cyl bore and were likely not sealing the way they should.

Shawn I think your over analysing the whole weld up situation.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ Shawn I think your over analysing the whole weld up situation.

Really, I am not. If you look closely at the back side (Exhaust Side) of the *AEB* head (not sure if the other 20vs exhibit the same problem), and look at the 2L ABA MLS gasket, it dips in right in front of each cyl. This makes it so that the raised area (Crush Zone) falls into the Cooling jacket there..
Does this mean that when the head it tightened, that the non crush zone won't seal the water jackets there? No, not necessarily. But it does mean there is a problem that I will guarantee will crop up sooner or later.
I wonder what the difference is in the 9a gasket and if it dips in like the ABA. I would need to see a close up of the 9a to be sure and I am not buying one







I already bought and ABA, AEG and AEB just to check fitments for myself...
S


----------



## Stakis (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yes, I know, because they are different size. 81mm and 82.5. I have only little damaged PG block







So now I am searching for the best way.. Today went to see 1995 2.0 85kw engine from golf mk3, but it was ADI







So I have problems with finding ABA block. So please suggest me the best way to go and to reach 350hp. I have a complete PG (g60) motor converted to turbo in my mk3 (i need more power







), and ability to take 20v large port head for quite cheap. So I just thought to buy a complete 1.8T engine or to make ABA/20V hybrid. As I said, I don't want to buy expensive aftermarket pistons or rods, just on stock internals to reach 330-350hp... Please suggets me the best and cheapest way. As i said, my car will be daily driven street can. Thank you very much.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (Stakis)*

if you want the cheapest way, then buy the 1.8t and run the stock 1.8 bottom end. just keep it at 325Whp to be safe.


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (Stakis)*

You're not going to find a ABA block in europe. Just the same way that you arent going to find an ALT block here unless you import it. The ADY and a few other codes are the same block, they just have a counterflow head versus the ABA's crossflow head that we got here. Most of those 2L engines have the same 92.8 crank and 159mm rods that the ABA does..


----------



## Stakis (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: (psykokid)*

OK. But How to know if they are forged ones? How to identify this? Just the same like ABA? If obd1 then forged? obd2 - cast?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (psykokid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_Most of those 2L engines have the same 92.8 crank and 159mm rods that the ABA does..

The engine he is going to have to look for is the 2E which was the counterflow ABA found in Europe.
The only way to tell if the internals are forged is by either opening up the engine or cross referencing the engine code.


----------



## Stakis (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

but as I know, 2E has 81mm bore... no?????


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (Stakis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stakis* »_but as I know, 2E has 81mm bore... no?????








nope, 82.5. The 2E has the same bottom end as the ABA and is the "early" version. So it may have had forged internals like an OBD-I ABA. Later versions were AGG, ADY, etc.


----------



## Stakis (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: (vwpat)*

heh... where to find trustable info? maybe some know exactly about forged bottom on the 2E or ADY etc? I mean about the mtoors in Europe... Thanks


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Stakis)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Stakis* »_heh... where to find trustable info? maybe some know exactly about forged bottom on the 2E or ADY etc? I mean about the mtoors in Europe... Thanks 

Unfortunately we cant spoon feed you every bit of information that you need.Do you know a reputable shop in your area that had knowledge of VW motors?


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

try:
http://www.google.com/url?q=ht...aHGII=
http://the-corrado.net/


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (G60ING)*

Head is all welded, shaved and close to being done with the machine work. See my project thread in my sig for a lot of pics. I will add more in the next day or so. 
I ended up bridging the area that I was referring to above in concern about the headgasket crush zone. Here is a pic illustrating what i was talking about.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Head is all welded, shaved and close to being done with the machine work. See my project thread in my sig for a lot of pics. I will add more in the next day or so.

Wow...
and some people say I am anal.I didnt go through all of that to eliminate some drains...








http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Stakis (Nov 10, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

In our country there are no clever people and shops who can tel such info







heh..


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Teaser Pic. Notice the build up areas on the Exhaust side for the new Oil Drain Galley(s) interconnecting the 3 center drains to the corners respectively. Also, notice the now bridged area between the Cyls and the rear (exhaust side) of the head.
Have not finished the machining here:
- Corner Block Drains have not been redrilled
- Rear Coolant passages, not opened up yet to match Headgasket.
- Large offset front drain not remachined
- Head has not been PnP'ed yet









Click to enlarge
Before and after:




_Modified by sdezego at 2:13 PM 2-7-2007_


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Really wish I just sent my head to you.
Now i have a machine shop that SAYS they understand what I need.
Toss a picture up when you get all the drilling etc done.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*

If I had to do it over again, I don't think I would mess with the Oil Galleys and cross drains. It was a big PITA trying to get the TIG in those tight spaces and getting the material to flow properly. It is questionable if it is needed anyway, but it will prevent oil from pooling near the #2 and #3 cyl exhaust valve/seals.
Welding up the drains, Bridging the gap and correcting the cooling jackets was not all that bad. I probably have a total of 6hrs of welding alone in this thing and a tank and a half of Argon...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_If I had to do it over again, I don't think I would mess with the Oil Galleys and cross drains.

Just for my own curriosity I disassembled a small port head I had here and did what you did.The front oil drain does not need modifying at all.#1 & #5 oil drain however do need to be welded and redrilled if your meticulous about your work like me.The ABA headgasket has about 4mm of crush zone and when I drew it on the AWP head I could see how it would possibly leak since there is only ~2mm of effective covering area @ the smallest point between the gasket and the head.
Has plugging drain #2-->4 worked?Yes it has for a few individuals so I guess it all boils down to how much work you want to put into it.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Just for my own curriosity I disassembled a small port head I had here and did what you did.The front oil drain does not need modifying at all.#1 & #5 oil drain however do need to be welded and redrilled if your meticulous about your work like me.The ABA headgasket has about 4mm of crush zone and when I drew it on the AWP head I could see how it would possibly leak since there is only ~2mm of effective covering area @ the smallest point between the gasket and the head.
Has plugging drain #2-->4 worked?Yes it has for a few individuals so I guess it all boils down to how much work you want to put into it.









In the end after looking at it I honstly don't believe it was the 2-4 oil drains that were leaking for me. I believe it was 1+5. If you look at those pics again(AEB head/ABA gasket) the head seriously does NOT touch a part of the cush zone on 1+5. 
Also, after pulling mine apart, there is some modifying that COULD be done to the front drain(small lip welded on) but completely blocking it off and drilling at an angle like that is unnecessary. It only misses a little bit of the ends of the crush zone.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Can you take a pic of the bottom of the AWP head? I would like to see the areas between the rear cooling circuits and the Cyls to see if they are similar to the AEB. I seem to recall seeing a pic and that they are different and may not need modifying as the AEB (the bridge welding).
As for the Front left oil drain, it should be modified on the AEB (not sure about others). Take some grease on a new ABA head gasket's Crush zones and carefully line it up and lay it down on the head. This will reveal how poorly the crush zones line up. The Crush zone on this front left falls into the front left oil drain and should be corrected.
yes, providing or not providing drains for Rear Drains 2,3 and 4 will never cause anything detrimental regardless. The worst thing that will/could happen, will be potentially small mounts of oil consumption for the #2 and #3 cylinder Exhaust valves due to oil pooling. "Maybe" some coking or sludging very long term for folks who are not good at changing their oil (likely no one who would be doing this conversion anyway).
Shawn


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
Also, after pulling mine apart, there is some modifying that COULD be done to the front drain(small lip welded on) but completely blocking it off and drilling at an angle like that is unnecessary. It only misses a little bit of the ends of the crush zone.

Correct. It was almost just as easy to weld it and redrill than trying to weld a lip on the edge. The minute you start welding, surrounding areas will sink due to the heat and you will need to buildup anyway or more shaving may be necessary.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I would like to see the areas between the rear cooling circuits and the Cyls to see if they are similar to the AEB. I seem to recall seeing a pic and that they are different and may not need modifying as the AEB (the bridge welding).


(click for larger image)


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Thanks. That is what I thought. The rear part of the head is bridged over the cooling jackets to the Cyl as I have done to the AEB.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

The Modifications are pretty much done. Just need to clean up a few things and then on to other head work








Click for larger Pics
 

Teaser Pic


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_The rear part of the head is bridged over the cooling jackets to the Cyl as I have done to the AEB.

But you didnt have to do this.I must say though,incredible work you did on that head.
Too bad your using a Vortec








Looks like I have to update Page 1 again.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Too bad your using a Vortec










No, G60


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_No, G60
























Contact Edition One to get one of these...

Just gotta figure out what your going to do about the intake manifold (i know you have a passenger exit big port).


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
...Just gotta figure out what your going to do about the intake manifold (i know you have a passenger exit big port).

Me too







j/k I have 2 ideas, but nothing finalized at this point. The plan currently has to options and both include a Single pass Precision FMIC that I have:
1.) G60 Boost out to D/S of the FMIC -> Boost Exit P/S (Passenger Side) up to P/S TB through Carbon Canister Hole. Run Bypass into P/S of G60 inlet and Air box on D/S (like A1's) and then into the D/S of the G60 inlet. Trunk Mount Batt. Th only thing from potentially keeping me from going this route is the radiator fan interfering with the intake to the G60. Easy to overcome though.
2.) Pretty much the same, but try to keep air filter on P/S, but this will take some creativity and will very likely NOT allow the stock air box, which I want to have.
Not going to worry about it too much until I get to that point.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Pretty much the same, but try to keep air filter on P/S, but this will take some creativity and will very likely NOT allow the stock air box, which I want to have.

I had an idea but worried that it would affect performance greatly.Using a 225bhp TT Intake manifold and a spacer plate which tappered from small port into a big port.
The only other option you have for an OEM looking big port manifold that exits on the drivers side is the APR manifold which is big $$$.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

I actually preferred the P/S TB even though it complicates things a bit. I would rather re-route the unpressurized intake air from the Air box and have a smooth single pass into and out of the FMIC and into the TB than have a 180* return (or dual pass IC) for pressurized air. ...still not the worst options in the world though.

As far as performance from the 225, there are quite a few people who have run the small port manifolds on the AEB with surprisingly better results that you might think (at least that is what i have been told). It wouldn't be my first choice, but is an option none the less.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To ([email protected])*

Is that Brand new? That is the only cover I don't have in my collection. I will definitely be giving it some thought. I still had plans on going COP, but as you know plans change rapidly.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
As far as performance from the 225, there are quite a few people who have run the small port manifolds on the AEB with surprisingly better results that you might think.

Thats what I have been told as well but a dyno or some form of test would be nice.I have a Dhalback manifold which as you know is small port.To me it was the most ideal manifold on the market but it required a small port head causing me to put the AEB one side.I have been thinking about the adapter plate for a while now.

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Is that Brand new? That is the only cover I don't have in my collection. I will definitely be giving it some thought. I still had plans on going COP, but as you know plans change rapidly.

Covers are brand new


----------



## VWracerG60 (May 23, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

im in the process of doing research to build a 20/20. i have a 9A block and an AWM 20V head. what i cant figure out is what to do about getting the CR down to a safe level so i car run a decent amount of boost through it. from what i read so far is that using just one 9A head gasket will put the CR around 11.5:1. i'd like to be around 9.1:1. some talked about stacking ABA head gaskets but i havnt seen any proof that says it will put me where i want to be. can anyone shed some light on this subject?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (VWracerG60)*

You need custom pistons. No two ways about it.


----------



## VWracerG60 (May 23, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

what about the possibilities of having a custom head gasket made? im on a bit of a budget and i have 90% of the stuff to build it.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (VWracerG60)*

I suppose you could use a Spacer for a 2L (i.e. ABA). 2 headgaskets is not going to cut it. Not to mention that I am pretty sure you will need to flycut the pistons and such for valve quench. If you were going to ask me my opinion, I would say either do one of two things:
1.) Do it right with custom Pistons
or 
2.) Build up the 9a - 16v (if you still have the head). Take the extra money you are going to save and do some headwork and cams.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

For reference from the first page of this post:

_Quote, originally posted by *originally posted by Head Chamber CC's* »_
PG 8V Head Chamber = 29cc (counterflow)
PL 16V Head Chamber = 49cc
ABA 8V Head Chamber = 30cc (crossflow)
AEB 20V Head Chamber = 42cc


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (VWracerG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWracerG60* »_what about the possibilities of having a custom head gasket made? im on a bit of a budget and i have 90% of the stuff to build it. 

The piston needs to be notched for the #5 valve.The money you would spend machining stock 9A pistons to the point where they are "acceptable" would be better spent on a set of custom JE's ($550US).


----------



## VWracerG60 (May 23, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

well on second thought i do have a good PG G60 bottom end. and from what i grasp all i have to do is put the AEB rod's and pistons in it with an ABA head gasket and it should be boost worthy. i'd like the 2.0 but im on a strict budget and trying to build on what i have laying around. altough i dont have an AEB engine i have AWM and i cant find a real specs about this engine regarding weather i can use the rods and pistons from it. i either want to build a new project car or upgrade my current GTI G60 to a 20v G60.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (VWracerG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWracerG60* »_i have AWM and i cant find a real specs about this engine regarding weather i can use the rods and pistons from it. i either want to build a new project car or upgrade my current GTI G60 to a 20v G60.

Not sure if the AWM uses 19 or 20mm wrist pins but regardless your in luck.The PG G60 has 48mm rod journals so the AWM internals will drop right into the PG block and if your only building a 20V G60 then you wont be making enough power to bend the rods,however,your going to still need to modify the head for the oil returns though.


----------



## VWracerG60 (May 23, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

well next question is can i use the G60 crank or the AWM crank? im fine with moding the oil ports. i was also thinking if its gonna work to convert it to turbo and just run the K04.


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (VWracerG60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWracerG60* »_well next question is can i use the G60 crank or the AWM crank? im fine with moding the oil ports. i was also thinking if its gonna work to convert it to turbo and just run the K04.
crank depends on block, if using the G-60 block you need the G-60 crank but can modify the AWM to work (to much work IMHO.) G-60 crank will not work in an AWM block.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWracerG60* »_well next question is can i use the G60 crank or the AWM crank? im fine with moding the oil ports. i was also thinking if its gonna work to convert it to turbo and just run the K04.

You use the G60 crankshaft.


----------



## Sam6 (Aug 28, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

What do you guys recomend for the oil return ports, welding them or plugging them?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Sam6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sam6* »_What do you guys recomend for the oil return ports, welding them or plugging them?

You will obtain the same results.Welding them = permanent whereas plugging them = temporary.Choice is yours.


----------



## Sam6 (Aug 28, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
You will obtain the same results.Welding them = permanent whereas plugging them = temporary.Choice is yours.


Thanks man


----------



## wahdubi (Mar 16, 2007)

*Re: (vwpat)2E engine*

I have 2 2E engines. they are fully forged except for the pisons and have oils cooling jets in the block for the pistons. the in ports are larger than the ABA ones and the valve stems are very thin. the intake manifold is also held by three bolts instead of two. the later ADY engine is a cheaper version of the 2E and MOST do not have cooling jets for the pistons. the ports for the ADY are also smaller (same size as ABA) and use two bolts to hold the manifold to the head. I recently installed a 2E in someones vehicle and the top end is nothing to talk about but its bottom end pulling power is as sweet as it gets before boost.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (vwpat)2E engine (wahdubi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wahdubi* »_I have 2 2E engines. they are fully forged except for the pisons and have oils cooling jets in the block for the pistons. the in ports are larger than the ABA ones and the valve stems are very thin. the intake manifold is also held by three bolts instead of two. the later ADY engine is a cheaper version of the 2E and MOST do not have cooling jets for the pistons. the ports for the ADY are also smaller (same size as ABA) and use two bolts to hold the manifold to the head. I recently installed a 2E in someones vehicle and the top end is nothing to talk about but its bottom end pulling power is as sweet as it gets before boost. 

Totally random post...but Thanks.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

What hardware would you use to mount the AEB head to the ABA block ?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (16plus4v)*

AEB headbolts.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (vwpat)*

Are they the same thread size as the ABA's ?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_What hardware would you use to mount the AEB head to the ABA block ? 

Raceware head studs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Raceware head studs. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I would like to conserve a bit of cash..cant I use OEM stretch bolts ? no one has seemed to have a problem yet..
p.s. I bought the Tapp Auto A4 shhh


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_I would like to conserve a bit of cash..cant I use OEM stretch bolts ? no one has seemed to have a problem yet.

Then you use the AEB's









_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_
p.s. I bought the Tapp Auto A4 shhh

With the blown engine?


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

im sent to issam.....


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_With the blown engine?

yup..crowers are still good and i'm buying it with the new CP pistons from chris tapp himself. all i need to do is get a spare block, machine swap everything over.. and i'm going to freshen up the head a little bit.
It will be done before june for sure http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_
yup..crowers are still good and i'm buying it with the new CP pistons from chris tapp himself. all i need to do is get a spare block, machine swap everything over.. and i'm going to freshen up the head a little bit.
It will be done before june for sure http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Go with an ABA block


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Go with an ABA block









thats what is has already..custom mounts and all


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_thats what is has already..custom mounts and all

Oh I did not know that.thought it was a straight up AEB.No wonder Mike Hood couldnt catch it








When are you doing a build thread?


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Once i have all the parts ready.. Yeah man the car was built right..
It actually has ARP head studs already.. I'm just in search of an AEB head casting so i can swap over the cams.. and put in some other new hardware. I gotta get an aba block too..but thats minor.
cant wait..


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_
It actually has ARP head studs already.
I didnt know ARP made head studs for the 20V?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_I didnt know ARP made head studs for the 20V?

If they do, they just started making them in the last month or so. Raceware was the only company making them that I know of.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (sdezego)*

The block is ABA.. so would it still technically be the same studs as the 1.8t blocks?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_The block is ABA.. so would it still technically be the same studs as the 1.8t blocks? 

Same studs as external water pump block (058).


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

my friend has arp studs in his aba turbo.. well.. w.e they are..they have held up to a lot of abuse lol








I'll keep you guys posted once the ball gets rolling http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_my friend has arp studs in his aba turbo.. well.. w.e they are..they have held up to a lot of abuse lol








I'll keep you guys posted once the ball gets rolling http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

The blue Jetta that Jay Thorton built?Thought those were Raceware's..


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

they are
ARP does not make them for 1.8t engines, now if someone tried it out and they work well thats a diffrent story
I'm not sure if the ABA head bolts will fit with a 1.8t head might be too short


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: (VRT)*

OK I've started to tear my 96 2.0 ABA apart to do this project, and I'm looking for a good used set of forged internals crank and rods, but i've run into an issue where I'm not sure how I'll be able to tell the difference between forged and not forged, i called a local dealership and asked what the part number for a OBD1 crank was, and what it was for an OBD2 and they were the same number, I had the guy check twice.... Can anybody lend some insight?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (96jettatrek2.0)*

Forged Cranks have a wide Forging seam usually about 3/4" - 1" wide. Cast will have a very thin seam on the counter weights and up the side toward the journal.
I am pretty sure all Rods were Forged. I had an early OBD1 and a 1st year OBD2, so mine was a bastard from the factory adn got mixmatched stuff. The Block was drilled for oil squirters, but had plugs in them, the Crank was forged and the Rods were identical to my OBD1.
I have an extra OBD1 Crank and OBD1 Rods with new bolts that I might be willing to let go, but shipping to Canada, would likely make it not very cost effective. I would see if you can find a crank local.
S
Here is a picture of the Forging seam.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (96jettatrek2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *96jettatrek2.0* »_I had the guy check twice.... Can anybody lend some insight?

The exact same part #?That does not sound right.
As for Forged connecting rods,the cheapest on the market right now is the SCAT 159/21's which [email protected] sells for $365US.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Thanks Guys, especially for the picture that'll be really helpful! Yeah I called 2 different dealerships, but they both had the same part number, maybe it was updated in etka to be the cast one only?


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: (96jettatrek2.0)*

cast crank part # probably superceded the forged one. Like the late 9A heads were superceded by ABF heads.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *96jettatrek2.0* »_Yeah I called 2 different dealerships, but they both had the same part number, maybe it was updated in etka to be the cast one only?

Maybe as Shawn explained,it was indeed an OBD-I crank in an OBD-II block (mix and match parts).All the OBD-II blocks I have ever cracked open had cast cranks.
Little update on Mendra's all out 20V header:

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Header is at the fab shop - we are go for install on Sat, this is what it looks like now.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Maybe as Shawn explained,it was indeed an OBD-I crank in an OBD-II block (mix and match parts).All the OBD-II blocks I have ever cracked open had cast cranks.
Little update on Mendra's all out 20V header:


FYI - I plugged and sealed the oil drains in the center of the head - I have over 6000 miles on the motor with no leaks whatsoever now.
*Specs* - the header is Jet hot coated with the Extreme sterling finish.
It has 1.75 inch primaries, which are stepped into 1.875 inch runners then all 4 tie into 1 in a 2.5 inch collector with a merge / flow cone that is 6inches long. The lengths of each pipe section is 12.375 inches. Tuned response range is 7000 rpm. The pipe lengths could have been between 11 and 14 inches depending on if the desire was to move the power up or down.








Here's some video of the header.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gw3UWmvivBE


_Modified by WolfGTI at 7:33 PM 4-1-2007_


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (WolfGTI)*

Nice header !
Wizard, I spoke with Chris from tapp auto and he said he used a fiat timing belt ? have you ever heard of this ?







I want to replace it with a new one but he said its a hard belt to find.


----------



## VRT (Dec 8, 2001)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yes its a Fiat belt. I have talked to Jason who was first to find a belt that fit properly on a 2020 back in 2004. Back when I did mine


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Yes its a Fiat belt. I have talked to Jason who was first to find a belt that fit properly on a 2020 back in 2004. Back when I did mine

The ABF belt works with the 43T IM shaft gear.Where did you source the Fiat belt from?I will add it to the FAQ.
Did TappAuto use the stock AEB IM shaft gear?


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (VRT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VRT* »_Yes its a Fiat belt. I have talked to Jason who was first to find a belt that fit properly on a 2020 back in 2004. Back when I did mine

Do you know which motor/model it came from ? Once I assemble the motor I want to put new belts and crap..
Also, the block was o-ringed, but there is some scoring in the cyl which has the destruction. I would like to save it if at all possible. Should i have it bored over 1mm and drop in a sleeve ? or... I have yet to take the block to my machine shop..but I would like to price things out before hand


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Did TappAuto use the stock AEB IM shaft gear?

I beleive so.. havent put any time into looking at the block closely..


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
The ABF belt works with the 43T IM shaft gear.

Not with the Tall block.
I had the info on the elusive Fiat belt and I believe it is posted somewhere around page 19. The Fiat was only available in Europe and no supplier in the US carries of can get the belt. I suspect the same for NA w/o specially importing them. I was never able to get, hold or verify the belt for the tooth profile, but the width and teeth were correct/acceptable (158T).
Should be from a '96 Fiat Bravia 1.6L 16v AH. Gates part number 5432xs or Conti CT879
I thought the Belt issue was solved a long time ago








Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 9:29 PM 4-4-2007_


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey, this is Chad.
My situation is this:
1990 Corrado, built good engine, stage4 modified, Lysholm pushing 20lbs boost...everything great.
I now have been building a 1.8t 20v internal waterpump, on the side while still enjoying driving my C








I dont wish to go stand alone (yet) so for now, Doug is going to build me a distributor to run on the side of the head (since I have no hole on the block). So that should make the swap VERY simple http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I want to run my twinscrew, and no AC (currently have the BBM AC delete pulley). I am building custom "tube/bomb" style intake.
My questions are these:
I have both a G60 and the 1.8t accesory bracket, which do I want to run?
2. I have my G60 alternator AND a VR6 alternator, which do I want to run?
3. What power steering unit do I want to run?
4. What about the AC delete?
5. Where can I run the charger at? Where will alternator go?
6. What tensioner (I have both), and will all the pulleys line up???
7. And last of all, if Im running a charger and not a turbo, what can I get an exhaust manifold/downpipe from?
Thanks in advance, Wizard you the man!


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (10SecCorrado)*

where the heck did your post go ? wt* lol it kept telling me invalid post








I'm gonna take some pics of the block soon..maybe help clear some things up about the configuration for the audi. All I was told by him is dont damage or loose that belt lol..and of course that it was from a Fiat.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (10SecCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Not with the Tall block.

Forgot Tapp was running an ABA block

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
I thought the Belt issue was solved a long time ago









That issue is never solved...I even confuse myself sometimes.Good to have a fellow Engineer around









_Quote, originally posted by *10SecCorrado* »_My questions are these:
I have both a G60 and the 1.8t accesory bracket, which do I want to run?
2. I have my G60 alternator AND a VR6 alternator, which do I want to run?
3. What power steering unit do I want to run?
4. What about the AC delete?
5. Where can I run the charger at? Where will alternator go?
6. What tensioner (I have both), and will all the pulleys line up???
7. And last of all, if Im running a charger and not a turbo, what can I get an exhaust manifold/downpipe from?

*1.* G60 charger accessory bracket will not bolt to the 06A block







.That leaves you with no choice but to run the stock 06A bracket and build onto it supports for the Lysohlm.
*2.* VR6,the spacing of the tabs is more "friendly" to work with and its a 120A alternator.
*3.* Well for now we have established that your sticking with the stock accessory bracket so your going to want to run the stock PS pump from the AWW/AWM/etc 1.8T engine
*4.* Forget AC,not going to happen








*5.* Place the charger where the stock AC compressor would go and relocate the alternator to the rear of the engine.Basically you may want to chop your bracket to look something like this:








*6.* Which tensioner?Timing belt or accessory?
*7.* Your best bet would be to build a full race exhaust manifold like the one Wolfgti has showcased above.Does not make sense investing in a $260US AGN manifold + TT downpipe when a few more $$$ will give you the ultimate manifold for an NA/SC set up.Contact Mendra,maybe he can have one built for you.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
*4.* Forget AC,not going to happen










I beg your pardon


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I beg your pardon









This is with the new style block.Where is he going to fit it AND the Lysohlm AND the alternator AND the PS?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

LOL, gotcha.

I admit, I didn't read


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
This is with the new style block.Where is he going to fit it AND the Lysohlm AND the alternator AND the PS?

Can the Lysholm be flipped around so the outlet is in the front? If so then you could probably use the TDI accessory bracket. The a/c compressor is mounted very low (right in front of the oil pan. Then try to mount the charger where the injection pump sits. The only problem I forsee is the oiling for the charger having to flow in the reverse direction (check with BBM)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_
Can the Lysholm be flipped around so the outlet is in the front? If so then you could probably use the TDI accessory bracket. The a/c compressor is mounted very low (right in front of the oil pan. Then try to mount the charger where the injection pump sits. The only problem I forsee is the oiling for the charger having to flow in the reverse direction (check with BBM)

If I recall correctly,the Lysohlm cant be flipped around.If it could I think that would make things alot easier for people running ABA kits and such.All though I do like the TDi bracket there is no way he can fit the lysohlm where the Diesel fuel pump would go because of the 20V intake manifold.








Maybe John can chime in since he is using a 06A block?


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey Wiz, so putting everything together this weekend, rounding up the last of my parts, and my buddy "speeding g60" playing the devils advocate keeps throwing out the "What about this?" questions at me.. anyways, now im wondering is, since Im going to run my g-60 TB and getting the custom distributor from Doug to make this internal waterpump/distributorless engine plug and play...what the heck do I do about sensors? How do I "convert" over my g-60 seonsors to this engine? Can I cut and splice my g60 wiring to the wiring of the 20v? Will they work? Things like the knock sensor, oil temp, water temp, etc, etc? Also where do I want to draw oil from for my Twinscrew SC?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (10SecCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *10SecCorrado* »_what the heck do I do about sensors? How do I "convert" over my g-60 seonsors to this engine? Can I cut and splice my g60 wiring to the wiring of the 20v? Will they work? Things like the knock sensor, oil temp, water temp, etc, etc? Also where do I want to draw oil from for my Twinscrew SC?


Isnt oil for the Twinscrew drawn from the oil filter housing?You need to adapt the water temperaure sensor and such from the G60 onto the AWW engine.


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yeah I was thinking that, as it appears theres an oil feed there for the stock turbo I could possibly convert over. Im just not sure how some of the sensors will convert over since the water necks and everything are so different


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (10SecCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *10SecCorrado* »_=Im just not sure how some of the sensors will convert over since the water necks and everything are so different









If your using the kit from [email protected] then all the stock sensors are going to work to your advantage.Worry about that when the time comes.Focus on getting the Lysohlm bolted up and relocating the alternator to the rear of the engine.


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

test


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*

I AM Of BRAZIL And AM MOUNTING A HEADSTOCK 20V FOR PULLED OUT And I WOULD LIKE SOME AID TYPE COMMAND And SPRING TO BE USED In the HEADSTOCK


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wasarrancada* »_I AM Of BRAZIL And AM MOUNTING A HEADSTOCK 20V FOR PULLED OUT And I WOULD LIKE SOME AID TYPE COMMAND And SPRING TO BE USED In the HEADSTOCK

Sorry your english is not very clear.Would you mind typing in portugese?We have a couple of people here who can translate it for you.


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

ai amigo blz to precisando do comando de valvula e das molas dura do cabeçote vcs sabem onde eu acho essas peças


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*

[email protected]


----------



## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wasarrancada* »_ai amigo blz to precisando do comando de valvula e das molas dura do cabeçote vcs sabem onde eu acho essas peças

Manda-me um email para [email protected] para falar-mos mais da duraçao e abertura do comando das valvulas e Molas da cabeça.


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (killa)*

AI AMIGO BRIGADAO MESMO JA TE MANDEI UMA RESPOSTA


----------



## Magovit (Mar 31, 2006)

Master Wizard-of-od







Do you know something about the 20v head ALT code? A frient say wath it´s the beas 20v head, it´s truth? Thankyou


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Magovit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Magovit* »_Master Wizard-of-od







Do you know something about the 20v head ALT code? A frient say wath it´s the beas 20v head, it´s truth? Thankyou

*1.* Thanks but I am no one master,simply an enthusiast sharing what I know.
*2.* The ALT engine carries a cylinder head that flows no different to a stock AEB considering they have the same size intake ports.
Do you have access to an ALT engine?


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

mmm.. ALT, 2L of alloy blocked goodness..


----------



## Magovit (Mar 31, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

no, have not







look that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=176UAywLHy4


_Modified by Magovit at 9:17 AM 4-20-2007_


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*

ai amigos olhem esse video e uma prova de arrancada de 201mts se alguem puder tradusir ai 
la no video o gol amarelo que aparece no final e meu 
http://www.racingmotors.com.br...x.htm


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*

OLHA AI LINK DIRETO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGHNsfxywgY


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*

Hey guys,please dont clutter the thread with youtube vids.I like to maintain an all tech format in here.
Thanks


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Since this page is full of nonsense, it's time to get back to brass tacks








For a lot more pics, see my build thread in my sig.

Exhaust ports are 95% done (Click for larger pics)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Exhaust ports are 95% done (Click for larger pics)

Why did you do Systems again?With your skills you should have been in Mech...dont you have a C++ program to write or something?








Looking very good Shawn http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif .definitely loving the port work and there is a demand for it if ever you quit your job/get fired








Onto the tech : Your not venting the block?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

*LOL*, I am a mechanic. I just don't do it to put food on the table







Especially vw's.. People will cry about spending $100 to get their car running right, but will drop $4 grand on a set of coil overs and LMs







I was actually a Harley Davidson Mechanic for over 12 years (from age 13-25) and used to build everything from custom street bikes to restores to Top Fuel Race engines. If you have ever seen an episode of American Chopper, My dad was like Paul Sr, My older Brother was like Paul jr and I was a catalyst not yet on the show







Needless to say, my brother and I didn't work well together so. So, I decided to get a couple of degrees in Mech engineering and let him take the shop over.
*Back to the technical.*
- Yes, I am going to add a Big -AN fitting on the Block plate and vent the crank case. I need to go through the charger bracket as well.
- No longer going to use that AWP tensioner (needed for Dist and 158T belt) since I am running the 9a IM shaft gear (i.e. No Dist). Will be running the inexpensive 9a tensioner with the custom 157T belt.



_Modified by sdezego at 9:36 PM 4-25-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_ - Yes, I am going to add a Big -AN fitting on the Block plate and vent the crank case. I need to go through the charger bracket as well.

Dont forget to file the charger bracket.Thats the mistake I made @ first.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Dont forget to file the charger bracket.Thats the mistake I made @ first.

Frank (aka G60ing) had already set this up as I originally got the ABA short block from him with the block plate etc. But agreed this is an easy one to overlook until you go to try and bolt it up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: (sdezego)*

por favor onde posso encontrar os comando de valvula e as molas para cabeçote 20 valvula 
gostaria de saber quanto custa 
please where I can find the command of valvula and the springs for 20 headstock valvula would like to know how much cost


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (wasarrancada)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wasarrancada* »_
please where I can find the command of valvula and the springs for 20 headstock valvula would like to know how much cost

Do you want stock or aftermarket?More importantly do you have paypal and are willing to pay for international charges?


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_*LOL*, I am a mechanic. I just don't do it to put food on the table







Especially vw's.. People will cry about spending $100 to get their car running right, but will drop $4 grand on a set of coil overs and LMs









Ditto http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

hmmmm where would a guy get a block off plate like that?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (96jettatrek2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *96jettatrek2.0* »_hmmmm where would a guy get a block off plate like that?

Make one or buy one from either PTong (peter tong) or BBM.Honestly making it is *NOT* that hard.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Make one or buy one from either PTong (peter tong) or BBM.Honestly making it is *NOT* that hard.

It is when you don't have the tools to do it. - Thanks for the tips on where to look!


_Modified by 96jettatrek2.0 at 2:12 PM 4-27-2007_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (96jettatrek2.0)*

TT also sells them, but the one peter has/had, already had a nice big breather fitting etc.


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Thanks Shawn, Yes.







... as of next week or so I'll have them for the 9A (ie old style) blocks as well - not that it helps the 1.8t folks any. PS: just like you I do this stuff for the love










_Modified by Peter Tong at 3:41 AM 4-28-2007_


----------



## Mk2-SAiNT 2.0 (Jun 11, 2006)

*Re: (Peter Tong)*

great thread! very informative. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_as of next week or so I'll have them for the 9A (ie old style) blocks as well

Peter whats the going rate for your block off plates now so that I could add it to Page1? (ABA Block).


----------



## Peter Tong (Jun 17, 1999)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

IM'd you


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Peter Tong)*

Porting is finished!
As usual, Click for lager pics


----------



## wasarrancada (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

POR FAVOR QUAL O TAMANHO DAS VALVULAS DE ADMISAO E AS DE ESCAPAMENTO


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Nicely done on the porting... is there a spec as to how thin you can get on those seperator walls? I bought mine already ported and polished, but it's still got a fair bit of material compared to yours.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (96jettatrek2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *96jettatrek2.0* »_Nicely done on the porting... is there a spec as to how thin you can get on those seperator walls? I bought mine already ported and polished, but it's still got a fair bit of material compared to yours.

Warren take some pictures of your cylinder head and send them to me for hosting.The images that Joe had are no longer on his page...
would be interesting to compare Shawn's head to EIP's.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

I can tell you right now that Shawn did a better job... I think I have some old ones on photobucket someheres... 
here they are... ugh they are a little blurry so don't start too long... I'll take some better ones later.
Intake...








Exhuast...


----------



## jerseyjim0 (Sep 28, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (96jettatrek2.0)*

so no matter what i have to get new pistons or notch them for my AEG. How much would be new, and how would i go aboout notching them


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (jerseyjim0)*

I ordered custom pistons from rhussjr on here, for my aba, and had the skirts coated for strength and the tops thermal coated, I think it came to around 750 all together...
Getting your pistons notched would involve taking them to a machine shop with the correct measurements and having them cut the material away... if you've never done that sort of thing it'd probably be alot easier to just buy new.


----------



## G60 Pat (Jul 19, 2006)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*

boook marked.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *jerseyjim0* »_so no matter what i have to get new pistons or notch them for my AEG. How much would be new, and how would i go aboout notching them

Regular JE's = $555US
+ FSR Forgings = +120US
+ Coated tops = $100US
You can get them from Rodney Huss and yes the piston needs to be notched for the #5 intake valve.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*decking head = ? CR*

Thought I'd try this thread first....
20v on a 2.0L mk4 block and stock 2.0L pistons = ~8.4:1 CR....
1) how much can the 20v head be safely decked?
2) how much decking would raise the hybrid CR from 8.4 to ~9.0-9.3
Thanks,
Rey


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Thought I'd try this thread first....
20v on a 2.0L mk4 block and stock 2.0L pistons = ~8.4:1 CR....


Are you sure? That sounds high. I would have expected somewhere in the 7's, but have not done the calcs myself on the AEG. How many cc's are in the AEG head? I thought it was the same as the other 8V's (~ 29cc). The 20v has *~43cc* combustion chamber.
Anyway, check out my 2020 thread in my sig and on page 4 I show the CR calcs and equation. You could use it to figure it out.
Also, you will get more volume change decking the block than you will shaving the head since the head chamber is not a full cylinder.
By the time you Shave the head or Deck the block, Fly cut the pistons for the valve(s) and buy and adjustable Timing Gear (Which you will need due to decking as much as you will need to), you would be creeping up on the price of pistons. ...and you'll end up with cast pistons.
I would think seriously about going this route.
Edit: had the 16v Head Vol screwed up so I removed.
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 9:34 AM 5-23-2007_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (sdezego)*

Thanks for the input. Reason I ask is because the head needed to be resufaced and decking it just crossed my mind.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Thanks for the input. Reason I ask is because the head needed to be resufaced and decking it just crossed my mind.

But when they deck it,they only do ~0.001" depending on the machine shop.How bad is it?


_Modified by Wizard-of-OD at 3:05 PM 6-15-2007_


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
But when they deck it,they only do ~0.0001" depending on the machine shop.How bad is it?

will this require head work to be done?


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (Wizard-of-OD)*

LOL. That was the title of the post, not a question directed @ you specifically. I posted the link to answer your question:

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
But when they deck it,they only do ~0.0001" depending on the machine shop.*How bad is it?*


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (elRey)*

Wiz, I think you added an extra zero and likely meant .001" (i.e. 1 thousandth of an inch)
Anyway, the absolute right thing to do would be to resurface it, but just for that one little nick. Hmmm, I don't know man. I know it is right on the fire ring surface, but you could smooth it and use some JB weld with a putty knife and then smooth it with the rest of the head. I wouldn't post that in the 1.8T forum because I am sure it would cause too much drama








By know, you should know I am all about *not* cutting corners and prefer to do things right and only once, but I have fixed much worse.
Just my .02. A resurface should only cost about $50, but the head will need to come apart.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (sdezego)*

Any new updates Shawn?Going to be fun using this 99mm crank


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (Wizard-of-OD)*

As a matter of fact, I am assembling my head (Finally) right this sec. Just need to check a reference








I ended up doing a valve job and my seat cutters were too big, so I had to order the right stuff.
In the First pic, you can see that there is an area on the top of the Exhaust Seat that the valve did not lap in properly showing there is some seat distortion for some reason. There were 3 ex seats like this, but I decided to cut *all* in/ex seats.
Click for larger pics
  
  
 
.. also had a spare piece of Lexan Rod and made up a valve seal tool on the lathe. Worked flawlessly as you will see. $1 vs $25+..
  


_Modified by sdezego at 10:03 AM 7-6-2007_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (sdezego)*

Many more updates and details in my build thread, but here is some info for good reference.
You will see that I removed all of the oil galley ball plugs to clean all of the channels. I Also tapped for the Head Pressure switch on one of the galleys and tapped the other holes for pipe plugs (not fully inserted in this pic).
*Click for larger pics*
  
  

Head will be going on the block Tomorrow.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
  .

Someone does not like ball plugs








Looking good Shawn!I have an Audi 5000S electric oil pressure sender where you have your pressure sender. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: decking head = ? CR (Wizard-of-OD)*

Nice. 
It's not that I don't like the ball plugs, just with all of the work that I did, I wanted to make sure I was able to clean all of the channels really good and there was no good way with the plugs in. What a PITA!


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey Wiz.... heres my progress so far...would have had her running by now, but too many other projects going on...
Heres the block all built, and going in (I was anxious to get her in, and head was still at machine shop)

















As you remember, Im running my Lysholm on this... the first intake we made, was out of 4 inch OD tubing, and it just made things way to tight to get my charger AND alternator up front (Ive decided rear mounting of the alternator is just not a good idea). I liked the size because it allowed the adapter plate I made to run basicaly ANY TB I wanted. But didnt leave much room for charger..so its tossed aside..









So heres the engine with charger and alternator having elbow room http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 









My question is, with forced induction on this engine, how much of a difference DOES the ID of the intake, AND also the distance of the runners make????? Im thinking about 3 1/2 or 3 inch tubing, it would be sweet if I could run this 2 1/2 (Im holding) cause it leaves lotsa room, AND I am thinking about placing TB on intake side of charger now..
Your thoughts and advice please....


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (10SecCorrado)*

*1.* Congrats http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
*2.* Any images of the 06A lysohlm bracket?Would really love to see a solidworks or autocad file for that








*3.*

_Quote, originally posted by *10SecCorrado* »_
My question is, with forced induction on this engine, how much of a difference DOES the ID of the intake, AND also the distance of the runners make????? Im thinking about 3 1/2 or 3 inch tubing, it would be sweet if I could run this 2 1/2 (Im holding) cause it leaves lotsa room, AND I am thinking about placing TB on intake side of charger now..

Well rule of thumb is that the bigger the plenum and the shorter the runner,the better it is for you but you have to tune the manifold correctly to your cylinder head.Unfortunately for me I have not fabricated an intake manifold so my advice in this area would be strictly based on what I have read,not what I have done like actual engine building and such,however,I have forwarded this link to James Burlew (zornig) and hopefully he can offer some assisstance,
As for a Throttle body on each side of the charger...how?Why do you just silence the charger,makes everyones life happy.


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

no, not TB on EACH side of the charger, just on the INLET side, in other words looking at my engine, Im thinking about placing it between my aluminum airfilter/box and the charger, instead of on the (2nd) intake im building.
Thanks for forwarding it, currently building my header, and then just down to some wiring and this stinking intake dilemma







I really need to know how the 20v would do with short runners and a smaller intake such as 3inch diameter. 
As to the bracket, I first made a very complicated one







then spent weeks thinking up more complex ones














, and then ironicaly in the end, I spent about three hours making a very simple one out of steel, and used it as a template to make one out of aluminum that spaced it out so the pulleys lined up. Then just added a third leg underneath at the other end(similar to the stock G-lader set up), mostly for peace of mind, as the bracket seems fairly stout http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I will post some pics, and Dyno whenever I finaly finish her up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks to everyone on here for all of the informative posts and pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Ich bin VW (Feb 23, 2007)

mmm sooo sexy... now i want to 20v my AEG 8v!!!!


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

1 question and 1 comment:
*Q:* It appears that the AEB uses a slightly different oil Splash Guard for the Intake cam that the other 20vs. The AEB has two Nubs on top that interfere when trying to use the AWP Cam cover. ETKA shows that the AEB is PN *058-103-555C* and the AWP is *058-103-555B*. Has anyone compared them? It seems to fit if you hack the nubs off, but... Also, the head only uses one? On the intake cam between Cyl 1 and 2? I guess this is to prevent oil from splashing against the oil cap. Also seems that it should have one over the intake cam on 2 and 3 to prevent splashing against the oil breatther baffle. Since the AEB did not have a breather, maybe that's why it only used on splash guard? can anyone confirm? I guess I am going to use two regardless. If you have ever added the "Cam Saver" splash guard to a boosted 8v, you would know why this is important for oil control.
*C:* I went to put the cam belt tensioner on and noticed that no matter what I do, the Cam timing is off by about 1/2 tooth







I know the ABA deck height is 16mm taller, but that should be about and even 2 belt teeth (8mmx2=16mm). The Block and head were decked, but this was very minimal. Maybe if you add them up with the fact that the belt is at an angle to the deck height, it accounts for what I am seeing.
Anyway, it is what it is and I guess I am going to have to get an adj cam gear.
Shawn

EDIT: Corrected typo above (thanks vwpat) and added pic below
Pic of the Cams Oil Splash Guard for reference:











_Modified by sdezego at 4:37 PM 6-12-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_The AEB has two Nubs on top that interfere when trying to use the AWP Cam cover. ETKA shows that the AEB is PN *058-103-555C* and the AWP is *058-103-555B*. Has anyone compared them?

AWP uses 4 and the valve cover is vented which means there is a portion inside the valve cover that sits lower than the AEB unit.Get an AWP valve cover and uses the 4 cam covers.AEB only used 2 because the valve cover was not vented









_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
*C:* I went to put the cam belt tensioner on and noticed that no matter what I do, the Cam timing is off by about 1/2 tooth







I know the ABA deck height is 16mm taller, but that should be about and even 2 belt teeth (8mmx2=16mm). The Block and head were decked, but this was very minimal. Maybe if you add them up with the fact that the belt is at an angle to the deck height, it accounts for what I am seeing.
Anyway, it is what it is and I guess I am going to have to get an adj cam gear.

No matter how hard I tried I was still 1/2 a tooth off.Just get an Autotech adjustable camgear since your using an "old style" block.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Dig it. Thanks!


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Ordered some up but also verified that AEBs used only 1 and the others used only 2 (on the intake cam). They don't fit on the Ex cam side properly.
Guess, I'll have 2 extras. NBD


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Ordered some up but also verified that AEBs used only 1 and the others used only 2 (on the intake cam). They don't fit on the Ex cam side properly.
Guess, I'll have 2 extras. NBD


Because they are none for the exhaust cam.If you want 2 I have 2 Shawn...I wont be using them.
p.s. Still got that torque plate?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Still got that torque plate?

Yep. Rented it out but have it back in hand.


----------



## Ich bin VW (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

in reference to #7. putting 20V head on a AEG 8V block. other than labor . how much is the average cost for parts/ this conversion? anyone here do this themselves? im a bit of a do-it-yourselfer and i have a garage buddy to help me but i want to know what im getting into financially before i start this project. any info would be great! thanks.
-kyle


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ich bin VW* »_how much is the average cost for parts/ this conversion? 

82.5mm/83mm pistons = $555US
SCAT 144/20mm rods = $349US
Head Gasket = $97US

_Quote, originally posted by *Ich bin VW* »_
anyone here do this themselves?

Audi4u runs this set up and made ~400whp on pump gas








So Shawn decided to finally show us how he modified his G60 charger rear support bracket to include a crankcase breather:

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_



*(click for larger images)*


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
So Shawn decided to finally show us how he modified his G60 charger rear support bracket to include a crankcase breather:


Thanks, Issam, I have been trying to figure out what pics to put here as I didn't want to clutter and duplicate this thread completely with my build thread (in my Sig).
Regarding the breather, it is a -12 AN setup. I welded the Male fitting to the block off plate as indicated and it fits through the hole in the back of the charger bracket. 
In retrospect, If the Charger bracket wasn't already shaved the width of the block off plate when I got it (came with the block off plate), then I would have just fill welded the web on the back of the bracket and milled it smooth afterward. Then just either tapped for the -AN fitting of welded that to it as well.
Shawn


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Intake is now port matched, and I about 3/4 of the way prep to polish. The factory casting was the suck...
..and for those to missed it in an earlier page, this is the Stock AGU *Euro, Aust* Large Port manifold for the AEB head. Probably not the best Hp maker for a BT "BigTurbo", but IMO this is a good choice for Low-Mid-Upper Mid range Torque for Small Turbos, SC or G60 (i.e. where you drive at 95% of the time).
I also de-ramped, polished and painted the OBD1 ABA Throttle Body.
click to enlarge


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

also updated/added pics near the top of this page...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Should have put an OBD1 VR6 unit on that bish...


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Should have put an OBD1 VR6 unit on that bish...









I have one, but here is my logic for not using it. Since the TB is blow through vs draw through, sharp changes in diameter are generally not good for flow. Since the Inlet in the VR is very big, but the Butterfly is MUCH smaller, this would result in less than optimum flow, generate small amounts of heat, etc. Also, since the IC in/out and IC piping I am using is close to the same dia as the ABA OBD1 TB, it made sense to use a constant diameter throughout. For this reason, I de-ramped the TB. Granted the ABA still has a small bell so it is not a perfect constant Diameter and is not the absolute perfect option. The Throttle shaft adds some complexity and such, but I won't be breaking any charts with my setup anyway








in a N/A Vr, the TB acts almost as a velocity Stack and works well, but IMO constant Diameter from the IC piping into the plenum is best.
Shawn


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_

















Nice collection.Why dont you bore out the VR6 throttle body and use a larger diameter plate?


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Guys, The Cantitech CT879 is a 158T belt


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_Guys, The Cantitech CT879 is a 158T belt









Shawn sold you the correct belt you need for your application
ABA block + 20V Head + 43T IM shaft gear.


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Sam, the motor is pretty far from me..i forgot which IM gear it has..but For Sure it was running the CT879 158T so i'll just grab those. He has both available
Maybe he was using a 9A IM gear..52T ? My memory likes that number for some reason

_Modified by 16plus4v at 2:23 PM 7-13-2007_


_Modified by 16plus4v at 2:25 PM 7-13-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_
Maybe he was using a 9A IM gear..52T ? My memory likes that number for some reason

9A does not have a 52T IM shaft gear.Let me know exactly whats going on Dylan.
Thanks


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

k


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (16plus4v)*

some more progress.
The only modification needed for the Euro AGU big port intake was to clearance the one boss over the charger.


Also needed to cut the washer on the lathe so the factory can bolt/washer would work on the TT cam gear. Cam timing is no longer 1/2 tooth off.
The only modification needed for the Euro AGU big port intake was to clearance the one boss over the charger.







_Modified by sdezego at 11:04 PM 7-16-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

These 2 images definitely do it for me Shawn http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Excellent craftsmanship as always









_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Looking good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am however very curious as to what tensioner you are going to run with this set up







I fit a lysholm to my own setup, and had to get "creative" in that area,,,so wondering what you are doing... But again, looks great so far, and glad to see someone else running a charger instead of throwing a turbo on it and calling it good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

So I have a question about pinning my crank.... do I have to worry about throwing the gear / crank out of balance if I pin it or is it just ok to go?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (96jettatrek2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *96jettatrek2.0* »_So I have a question about pinning my crank.... do I have to worry about throwing the gear / crank out of balance if I pin it or is it just ok to go?









Short answer is: no, you don;t have to worry about that. 
Long answer is: You are removing metal by drilling and replacing metal with a pin. You could get technical here, but IMO the effects are negligible. Especially since the moment of inertia would be so small at that small of a radius.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (10SecCorrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *10SecCorrado* »_Looking good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I am however very curious as to what tensioner you are going to run with this set up









It will all be custom, but similar to the G60 Limited likely.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Short answer is: no, you don;t have to worry about that. 
Long answer is: You are removing metal by drilling and replacing metal with a pin. You could get technical here, but IMO the effects are negligible. Especially since the moment of inertia would be so small at that small of a radius.

Thanks, I won't worry about it then.


----------



## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (96jettatrek2.0)*

Has anyone done this with a 9A block in a B5 A4? I know it's easier to put the ABA crank into the AEB block, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding an affordable replacement AEB. 9A blocks are relatively easy to find, and cheaper. Plus, I won't have to clearance anything inside the block, and I can re-use my 144mm Scat rods. The main problem that I can see though is the hole for the crank position sensor, is it present on the 9A or not? Would a good machine shop be able to duplicate that without causing sensor problems?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Hugh Gordon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hugh Gordon* »_Has anyone done this with a 9A block in a B5 A4? I know it's easier to put the ABA crank into the AEB block, but I'm having a lot of trouble finding an affordable replacement AEB. 9A blocks are relatively easy to find, and cheaper. Plus, I won't have to clearance anything inside the block, and I can re-use my 144mm Scat rods. The main problem that I can see though is the hole for the crank position sensor, is it present on the 9A or not? Would a good machine shop be able to duplicate that without causing sensor problems?

Forget the 9A block Hugh.It does not have:
* Mounting holes for either passenger side or driver side engine mount bracket.
* Rear drain holes for the cylinder head (granted ABA does not have this either but at least it has the mounting holes)
* Hole for crankshaft position sensor.
I would just try to source an AEB block.Where are you located?


----------



## Hugh Gordon (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Yeah, I found out about the crank position sensor and decided I wouldn't use it. I found an AEB block at a ridiculous price that I don't want to talk about. Probably won't be doing the 2.0 with it though. I just need to get my car running again. I'm in Colorado BTW.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Hugh Gordon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hugh Gordon* »_Probably won't be doing the 2.0 with it though.

Just soucre an ABA crank








More from Shawn showing off his new bling bling valve cover









_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_


----------



## bimmen325 (Feb 16, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

how did you get the old style timing belt tensioner to work on the aeb?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (bimmen325)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bimmen325* »_how did you get the old style timing belt tensioner to work on the aeb?

use the 9a stud, flip the tensioner and shim it with about 2 washers and use one of my custom belts for no Distributer. Must also use the 43t Im shaft gear (i.e. AEB or 9a, etc).


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
use the 9a stud, flip the tensioner and shim it with about 2 washers and use one of my custom belts for no Distributer. Must also use the 43t Im shaft gear (i.e. AEB or 9a, etc).









I think what he means is how did you adjust it.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

oh, in that case, I used a BFPOCLs.
BFPOCLs = Big F'in pair of channel locks


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
BFPOCLs = Big F'in pair of channel locks









Hmm...I must get me a pair of those








Stumbled across these images on a french forum:


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Stumbled across these images on a french forum:

























thats umm.. should we say inventive? wouldn't a standard OE style bosch DV ran off of a isv re-route style T fitting do the same thing without having to modify the charger and re invent the wheel? different strokes for different folks..


----------



## Dyelon (Jul 31, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (psykokid)*

I apoligize for my laziness but I dont have the time to read ALL 10 pages of the post.
I have a MK3 GTI VR6 that just went tits up.
I am thinking of replacing this lump for this hybrid setup so my question is...
If I were to buy a ABA block and put the 20v head on what would I need to do wiring wise? 
Will it just bolt in using the stock motor mounts?
What would i do as far as spark plugs go?
And would the 02A CCM trranny bolt up and work just fine for this setup?
Or should I just forget about it because it'll be too big of a headache to swap and just put in another VR and call it good???







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
TIA


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dyelon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dyelon* »_
just put in another VR and call it good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
No offense but the questions you ask show that your knowledge of VW drivetrains would need to expand a lot before you could even consider doing the swap. You would need to read a LOT before you buy parts and the work required is a lot more difficult then rebuilding a VR6 or swapping in a good Vr6


----------



## Dyelon (Jul 31, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
No offense but the questions you ask show that your knowledge of VW drivetrains would need to expand a lot before you could even consider doing the swap. You would need to read a LOT before you buy parts and the work required is a lot more difficult then rebuilding a VR6 or swapping in a good Vr6









Cool thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dyelon* »_
Or should I just forget about it because it'll be too big of a headache to swap and just put in another VR and call it good???







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Sad to say but Frank is right.
Some good Quality information on 20V Cylinder heads here --> *[CLICK ME]*


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Check out these plug wires fellas. I checked with Tranz0r_Z and he said they were MSD brand for a Honda (he wasn't sure exactly which one if it even matters









_Quote, originally posted by *Tranz0r_Z* »_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Check out these plug wires fellas. I checked with Tranz0r_Z and he said they were MSD brand for a Honda (he wasn't sure exactly which one if it even matters










Could be the B18C.
*N.B.* Sorry about the broken Images,they are not broken,just transfering the data to another server due to the increased volume of views.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Check out these plug wires fellas. I checked with Tranz0r_Z and he said they were MSD brand for a Honda (he wasn't sure exactly which one if it even matters









That's pretty sweet looking... hmmm my bank account looks worried


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (96jettatrek2.0)*

If anyone confirms these wires (in hand and on Valve Cover), please post the Honda engine model details








I'll do some more digging too


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*

Very nice so far! Are you still running Megasquirt? I would like to see your timing map at some point if you wouldn't mind.
Shawn


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Very nice so far! Are you still running Megasquirt? I would like to see your timing map at some point if you wouldn't mind.
Shawn

Yes, megasquirt, however my timing map is not dialed in at all, i just threw a base timing map w/ .75* retard for each pound of boost. Nothing special.
I havn't had time or money to get it to my friends dyno to have him tune it for me. I need fuel feed line upgrades and a few other things before I'm ready to go for power.


_Modified by haenszel at 9:08 AM 9-12-2007_


----------



## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*

Here's mine


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (16plus4v)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Much better on the timing belt clearance by the tensioner in pic 5 vs pic 4


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*









Looking good Dylan http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Just got the ported AEB cast back from Graham.Thats 2 AEB cylinder heads that I have the moded ports for.With this particualr head the exhaust valve guides needed replacing and it was recommended that I resurface the head.I had allready tapped this head for the NPT plugs but since some welding would have had to be done,I opted to have the oil return @ the front and #1 and #5 in the rear be modified.








Also some eye Candy for the masses:

_Quote, originally posted by *Tehlonz* »_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*

ABF 20V


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_ABF 20V









hmmm Yummy http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif looking good as usual


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: (mocas)*

I have not been on this thread for quite sometime. I can't wait to start getting all the parts I need for my AEB/ABA crossbred setup. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

so i totaly love the thread, my question is what kind of a power upgrade does the 20v head give? i mean on an ABA or 9A block, if not turbo.
thank you.


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (manfredwerner)*

a 20v head gives you more moving parts and far more air flow in and out of the motor for more power.


----------



## GermanRob (Mar 1, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mk2 SAiNT)*

I've got a guy locally who is using the 20v head off a Seat Ibiza Cupra R.... sez the ports dwarf those on the AEB head

edit--> page 37 OWNED


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (GermanRob)*


_Quote, originally posted by *manfredwerner* »_so i totaly love the thread, my question is what kind of a power upgrade does the 20v head give? i mean on an ABA or 9A block, if not turbo.
thank you.

Depends whats done to the head

_Quote, originally posted by *GermanRob* »_I've got a guy locally who is using the 20v head off a Seat Ibiza Cupra R.... sez the ports dwarf those on the AEB head

Audi S8 head,yes..not the Seat Ibiza head (at least the one I creacked open).


----------



## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mk2 SAiNT)*

what gain in hp would it give to a 9a? edit-didn't see the answer, sorry.


_Modified by manfredwerner at 10:34 PM 10-23-2007_


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (manfredwerner)*

Quick question i must of missed something.
I would like to do this i have an ABA obd1 block do i have to use an AEB head or can i use any of the 20v Heads? I know the AEB engines came with an external waterpump apose to the newer model 20V is that the reason why i would need to use the AEB? Besides having better Ports. 
By the way i would be using Standalone.
Quote, originally posted by the4ork » 
are there any other heads that will work? 
All 20V heads will work but only the VW Passat/Audi A4 got the big port heads (Only applies to NA)
Thanks Wizard http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by mocas at 10:00 AM 10-26-2007_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (mocas)*

One advantage to the small port head is that you have a greater choice of off the shelf manifolds for cheap and can have the TB on either side








if that matters
Also, the small port heads cooling jackets across the rear side of the head (directly behind each Combustion Chanber) are more conducive to the ABA head gasket. You can see what I mean if you page back a few pages to where I modified my AEB. I actually welded up and bridged the cooling jacket gap on my AEB. There are others who run the AEB unmodified though and seem just fine. I am just a stickler.
Shawn


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_One advantage to the small port head is that you have a greater choice of off the shelf manifolds for cheap and can have the TB on either side








if that matters
Also, the small port heads cooling jackets across the rear side of the head (directly behind each Combustion Chanber) are more conducive to the ABA head gasket. You can see what I mean if you page back a few pages to where I modified my AEB. I actually welded up and bridged the cooling jacket gap on my AEB. There are others who run the AEB unmodified though and seem just fine. I am just a stickler.
Shawn


Thank you for the Info love your project by the way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Audi S8 head,yes..not the Seat Ibiza head (at least the one I creacked open).

any more info on this? i've been searching all day and finding nothing... apparently people who own S8's don't like to pull their engine's apart and take pictures.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (WanganLLama)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WanganLLama* »_
any more info on this? i've been searching all day and finding nothing... apparently people who own S8's don't like to pull their engine's apart and take pictures.


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

i'd assume somebody couldn't just use those cams in a aeb head for a affordable set of N/A cams... that would be far too easy.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (WanganLLama)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WanganLLama* »_i'd assume somebody couldn't just use those cams in a aeb head for a affordable set of N/A cams... that would be far too easy. 

1 crank and you will bend all the valves if you bolted that head to an Inline 4 engine








Custom cams would have to be made.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

In case someone can't find and ABA pulley and or wants to run the 1.8t, it appears to be a viable option if you create a Hubcentric shim ~6mm. Diameter is the same.
1.8t transverse in comparison to the corrected ABA.


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (GermanRob)*


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

bah, someone needs to pick up this little number...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Audi-A6-...wItem


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (GermanRob)*

http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=bbU0tNohz54


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (TehLonz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TehLonz* »_


















These 2 bring a smile to my face


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*










Reving Video :http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=bbU0tNohz54

Dyno no numbers







:http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=7X9-2xwx7gM


----------



## TightDub (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I must read this thread










_Modified by TightDub at 4:05 PM 11-17-2007_


----------



## D.Lus (May 29, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (TightDub)*

Just managed to read almost all topic since the beginning but I've got the mess in my head right now








I know the answers are all here, I've read them but I just can't put them together (and plus my not perfect english...)
Ok, thank's to some friends of mine I'm beginning a long 2020 story. I think the first 2020 engine in Ukraine and for the start got just some simple questions. I'm building it from scratch and it;s being put down in the car instead of the 1.4







only after it's completely built.
The engines I can find here differ from your's as we have european engines (it's easier to find the 4.2 RS4 engine here then an ABA)....
The basic plan was: The 9A or 2e block repaired to 82.75mm bore, the new 82.75mm 9A pistons cut for the 20V head, the 20V head itself. That's the simple point.
I have to mention it's kinda difficult to find some "tuning" stuff such as JE pistons etc here - so the idea is using stock VW parts for maximum.
The first basic questions:








- What conrods to use? The 9A or the 2e ones as they're different?
- What crankshaft - 9A or 2e?
- What CR will I have with that? Will I be able to use turbo? ANd eve more - I'm still not sure about wheather I want forced induction... 
- What head gasket to use - will the 9A one be ok?
- Will the 9A head bolts be ok?
- and the thing I just can't put together in my head is the cooling system - I'd like to leave as much stock as possible - is the 9A/2e cooling system (with the heater in the cabin) "connectable" to the 20V head? Just can't remember I saw the answer anywhere..
- and the last one for the moment - engine management? Which will be easier to install and to connect to the stock Golf's electrics? The 1.8T Motronic or the PG Digifant?
Eeem... Thanx in advance for your patience.... 


_Modified by D.Lus at 3:34 PM 11-20-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (D.Lus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D.Lus* »_it's easier to find the 4.2 RS4 engine here then an ABA)....The basic plan was: The 9A or 2e block repaired to 82.75mm bore, the new 82.75mm 9A pistons cut for the 20V head, the 20V head itself. That's the simple point.

The 2E is Europe's ABA.Its a 236mm tall block but with a counterflow head rather than a cross flow head.Both the 2E and the 9A have 82.5mm bore,not 82.75mm so if your using 82.75mm then they are not stock bore.But either way yes it is cheaper to cut 9A pistons for the #5 valve than going with custom JE's.

_Quote, originally posted by *D.Lus* »_
The first basic questions:








1. What conrods to use? The 9A or the 2e ones as they're different?
2. What crankshaft - 9A or 2e?
3. What CR will I have with that? Will I be able to use turbo? ANd eve more - I'm still not sure about wheather I want forced induction... 
4. What head gasket to use - will the 9A one be ok?
5. Will the 9A head bolts be ok?
6. and the thing I just can't put together in my head is the cooling system - I'd like to leave as much stock as possible - is the 9A/2e cooling system (with the heater in the cabin) "connectable" to the 20V head? Just can't remember I saw the answer anywhere..
7. and the last one for the moment - engine management? Which will be easier to install and to connect to the stock Golf's electrics? The 1.8T Motronic or the PG Digifant?

*1.* Use the Connecting rods that macth the block.If you use the 9A block then you have to use 144mm connecting rods.If you use 2E rods then you have to use the 159mm 2E rods.
*2.* 2E & 9A are the same 92.8mm crankshaft.The 2E uses a distributor so it has no need for a 60-2 wheel on the crank.
*3.* With 9A pistons on 2E connecting rods in a 2E block your looking @ ~ 9:1 CR
*4.* Head gasket - 9A or 2E will be fine
*5.* No you need 20V head bolts
*6.* For cooling yes they are similar,you just need to figure out how your going to cap off the front housing on the 9A head.
*7.* PG diffiant is always easier than Motronic.You will need to have either ecu tuned depending on your set up though.


----------



## D.Lus (May 29, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Thanx a lot!

_Quote »_The 2E is Europe's ABA. The 2E is Europe's ABA.Its a 236mm tall block but with a counterflow head rather than a cross flow head.

Ok, got it.

_Quote »_Both the 2E and the 9A have 82.5mm bore,not 82.75mm so if your using 82.75mm then they are not stock bore

The point is I won't find the 9A/2e block in perfect condition and the 82.75mm is the first "repair size" and VW produces stock oversized 82.75mm pistons 

_Quote »_But either way yes it is cheaper to cut 9A pistons for the #5 valve than going with custom JE's.

Just what I thought...

_Quote »_1. Use the Connecting rods that macth the block.If you use the 9A block then you have to use 144mm connecting rods.If you use 2E rods then you have to use the 159mm 2E rods.

The 9A and the 2E block are different? Oh well... Ok, I must have missed something









_Quote »_2. 2E & 9A are the same 92.8mm crankshaft.The 2E uses a distributor so it has no need for a 60-2 wheel on the crank.

Thanx. As ETKA gave two different numbers - yeah they differ the las letter only. So any will fit any block?
9A crank: 053 105 101H 
2e crank: 053 105 101K 

_Quote »_3. With 9A pistons on 2E connecting rods in a 2E block your looking @ ~ 9:1 CR

And here goes turbo.....
And what about 9A pistons in 9A block? It's gonna be "no force induction" engine?

_Quote »_4. Head gasket - 9A or 2E will be fine

I'm writing it down for myself
















_Quote »_5. No you need 20V head bolts

No problem. The fit the 9A/2e blocks?

_Quote »_6. For cooling yes they are similar,you just need to figure out how your going to cap off the front housing on the 9A head.

I think i got it....

_Quote »_PG diffiant is always easier than Motronic.You will need to have either ecu tuned depending on your set up though.

Yeah, there are people who can remap either Motronic or Digifant (well, I hope they can remap the old Digi too).
But what about reliability? What system will be more reliable with that hardware setup as the Golf is my daily-driver? The whole Motronic system or the whole Digi?
Yeah, Digi is much easier - but wheather will it be more reliable with the 2.0T setup?
And the final neat touch for the Motronic - the "check engine" lamp in the mk4 gauge panel will be functional in case of something...








_Modified by D.Lus at 3:56 PM 11-20-2007_


_Modified by D.Lus at 3:58 PM 11-20-2007_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (D.Lus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D.Lus* »_
*1.* The 9A and the 2E block are different? Oh well... Ok, I must have missed something








*2.* So any will fit any block?
*3.* And here goes turbo.....
*4.* And what about 9A pistons in 9A block? It's gonna be "no force induction" engine?
*5.* The fit the 9A/2e blocks?

*1.* 2E = 236mm block,9A = 220mm block
*2.* Yes both cranks are interchangeable
*3.* As always








*4.* 9A piston in 9A block = 9A stock compression ratio = 10.8:1 or there abouts








*5.* You need to get head bolts from an AEB.Not from an AWP...
As for Digi vs Motronic...unless you have a good chip tuner then your best bet is standalone.
btw I do ship to Ukraine


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

034 WORLDWIDE


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (TehLonz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TehLonz* »_034 WORLDWIDE


----------



## D.Lus (May 29, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote »_1. 2E = 236mm block,9A = 220mm block

I definitely have missed something









_Quote »_2. Yes both cranks are interchangeable

OK









_Quote »_3. As always

Oh well yeah.... :lol:

_Quote »_4. 9A piston in 9A block = 9A stock compression ratio = 10.8:1 or there abouts

Well silly question (9A pistons in 9A block







) - just thought the 20V head would make some difference

_Quote »_5. You need to get head bolts from an AEB.Not from an AWP...

Wrote it down









_Quote »_As for Digi vs Motronic...unless you have a good chip tuner then your best bet is standalone.

Standalone.... Not sure about who would be able to map it (as for myself - I'm not sure I could do it myself).
Good chiptuners - well, there are some companies who work for kinda 5+ years in Ukraine and they all promised they would map motronic...
One of them is polish VTG...
Well ok - that's for a bit later









_Quote »_btw I do ship to Ukraine

Will have in mind


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (D.Lus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *D.Lus* »_
Good chiptuners - well, there are some companies who work for kinda 5+ years in Ukraine and they all promised they would map motronic

Then go with Motronic.If not go with a full SEM system and seek the North American boards for information.


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

I forgot all about this thread. I also forgot I have two 20v heads sitting around in my garage.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey guys, I can't find the 20/20 For sale thread that was lurking around here somehwere.....
either way, my timing belt snapped yesterday and I'm done. I'm not putting this back together myself.
Here is the FS thread for my whole motor.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3560951
Thanks for the help, guidance and love of a common goal.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
either way, my timing belt snapped yesterday and I'm done

Dont give up!What caused the belt to snap?
I have some valves here I can send you....anyone else got valves?


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

i'm not sure. As you can see it literally ripped in half...








I'd appreciate the valves so I can atleast get it back together..... but I'm not so sure I want to keep going with it.
It made some decent power, but its just a tight time.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_i'm not sure. As you can see it literally ripped in half....

Who was the manufacturer??


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

it was a custom contitech from sdezego.
the ones everyone is using.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_it was a custom contitech from sdezego.
the ones everyone is using.

Contact Contitech (not Shawn).They would like to know why the belt snapped.


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

ok, will do.
Are you seriously willing to contribute some valves? that'd cut the rebuild in half as opposed to buying all new ones.
also, Sean, still got non-dizzy belts?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_ok, will do.
Are you seriously willing to contribute some valves? that'd cut the rebuild in half as opposed to buying all new ones.
also, Sean, still got non-dizzy belts?

Ye I have about 5 intake valves here that I can spare (you should only need 4 intakes) and I know that the 1.8T forum will help out as well.Honestly Dont Sell!


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Ye I have about 5 intake valves here that I can spare (you should only need 4 intakes) and I know that the 1.8T forum will help out as well.Honestly Dont Sell!

yeah, usually only 4 intakes..... the hurt is the 8 exhausts. haha.

on a lighter note....... what kinda power has everyone else put down on their setup? Excited to see what people have goin on.


_Modified by haenszel at 11:14 PM 11-27-2007_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *haenszel* »_
also, Sean, still got non-dizzy belts?

I have one spare non-dist belt, however, I am *VERY* concerned that this has happened again. If it was once, then I "could possibly consider" it was a fluke defect in the belt or something. 
With any situation like this, it is difficult to determine what came first, the valves hitting causing the belt to break or vice versus. ..or something else like belt alignment, tension, etc.
Just to make a list of the only possible causes:


inferior belt - however, these are the same quality Contitech belts as used on the 1.8t's and other cars and undergo the same process of Cut to width *by the belt distributor*. The only difference, here, is that the "cut to width" for our application is a custom request to the belt distributor because of the # of teeth in relation to the width. There is just nothing off the shelf *with this tooth profile*, width and # of teeth. Originally, I even spoke to Hans, the lead engineer for the belt division at CRP, and this is what recommended as the only option. Contitech provides wide belt stock to 3rd part distributors who cut the belts to proper width and package them. They perform the exact same process on prepackaged belts. Sadly, regardless of anything, I can tell you there is no liability by Contitech or the distributer in our case since this is a "custom application". 

valve Spring Coil Bind (inner(s) or outer(s)) - Either due to:
valve lift too much for spring's out of the box clearance

retainers causing too much preload on springs

Springs not seated properly in chute due to either being cocked or spring diameter is too Large, etc ****Note there is a lot of discussion on this happening in the 1.8t forum.*

...


improper valve clearance to pistons - due to:
Piston relief from factory for cam/valve combination

**valve stem protruding too far due to valve seat cuts. I can't tell you how many times I have seen professional machine shops screw this up

shaved head, decked block or head gasket that the piston manufacturer did not account for

cam timing not correct (cam to cam chain or cam to crank) - the cam to crank timing should be 1/2 tooth off from the tall block ABA and must use an adjustable cam gear to compensate or your valves will not be in the place the manufacturer (piston or cams) intended

cam chain sprockets not timed correctly from the manufacturer

hydro lifter "floating out"

over revving

...


Timing Belt alignment - I know I had to shim the 9a tensioner to properly align the belt with the cam and crank cogs. 

Also the use of the wrong cam gear (transverse vs longitudinal) will cause an improper offset

Tensioner Roller Seizing when it gets hot or at high RPM

IM shaft seizing in block - I have seen more than one machine shop screw up the install of these flat bearing...

That is about all I can think of off the top of my head real quick.
In Short, I *would not* put the motor back together without finding a cause:
1.) meticulously checking every single spring (inner and outer) for coil bind clearance for each respective valve and position in head that they will be used.
2.) "claying" the pistons to check all 5 valves clearance on all 5 pistons through and engine cycles. Note: This can not be done properly with the springs and/or hydro lifter in place or they could collapse and give you a false negative.
I would never trust the cam manufacturer w/o checking. There have been quite a few people that have posted putting a set of 268 cams (forget the manufacturer) that were suppose to be "drop in" and have them cause the vales to hit.
Also, Mendra (aka WolfGti) is running very high lift cams, springs etc on his N/A High Compression 200hp 2020 and he has ~20k miles with the same belt with revs +8k







, so I am confident the belt can withstand the abuse.
Just to state, I have no stake in these belts whatsoever and only offer them to help guys out. All said and done I make *maybe* $12 a belt for my hassle and tieing up money indefinitely since you can't just order one at a time for the custom cut. There are enough people running them to give me the confidence to have one on my motor. However, I am having serious concern on providing another in your case, if there is no cause found.
I wish you were closer, I wouldn't mind putting my eyes on things to help you find the cause and get this back on the road. I would seriously forget everything that you have checked or has been checked by a machine shop before and start from scratch.
Let me know how I can help.
Shawn


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

One more thing to add that I find interesting but not necessarily conclusive to anything is that the early JE piston sets only had one relief for the middle intake valve (like yours and mine). It *appears* that later sets include reliefs for all valves. I am not sure if they created a similar "job" now that can accommodate stock or after market cams or what. There was one or two guys who asked about about this because they were comparing their pistons to a pic I posed of mine some time back. all were stock cams and same compression ratio from what I recall.
Shawn


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

ok, now.... 1 thing, you're saying i HAVE to be running an adjustable cam gear with this setup to be sure the the valves are open/closed due to being a 1/2 tooth off? I never noticed the motor being 1/2tooth off in the past, and i've cam timed and done the belt numerous numerous times.
The last being in august when I pulled the motor out to check everything over.
The one thing I DID notice is that the belt is actually offset a bit toward the crank pully. Meaning i'd like to shave the back of the 16v tensioner to pull it in another mm, or even less. The crank pully has wear marks of the timign belt teeth in the back of it.
This startled me excessively at first(back in august when I pulled it apart) but talking to a long-time vw friend, and physically holding a few other crank pulleys that did infact have this same symptom.... i was told not to worry about it.
I'm running stock cams, have 16 rollers between cams, hydro lifters, cat cams dual valvesprings and titanium retainers. I've never revved over 7500 for any significant time(on one drag run i had 1 data sample that read 8040rpm).
IM Shaft siezing..... I'm not even sure how to tell if thats the issue.
Running head barely shaved, just for surfacing. Stock block height, and stock MLS ABA headgasket as per the build thread.

the setup was reliable. I revved to 7500 multiple times daily, held 7000rpm burst for seconds at a time while spinning through 3rd waiting for the car to catch up to the engine etc. I daily drove the car for damn near 6 months without any issues whatsoever.... thats what kills me.


_Modified by haenszel at 2:50 PM 11-28-2007_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (haenszel)*

- Not saying you absolutely have to be running the Adj Cam gear. I am just saying that there was no way for me to time my cam properly with the crank at TDC w/o one. The cam was always 1/2 a tooth off. Others have verified the same.
- The belt alignment is the absolute most critical. If you are off set, what happens is that the belt will not have even tension across the teeth on the cam and crank. It is like taking a strip of paper and trying to pull it apart. It is hard to pull it apart from either end when pulled evenly, but is very easy to do if you pull at one side of each end. It will easily shear from the side. Not saying that was the cause, but it is suspect.
I "think" what I did, was put the 9a tensioner on backward and then shim it with a washer to get perfect alignment. See how you don't see the adjustment pin holes? Not sure what everyone else has done to be honest.
Click for bigger pic.
  

See the mark I made at 4*?
 
Oh, though you were running cat cams, but see you are just running springs and retainers. The other comments still apply to potential coil bind issues.
IM shaft - I would think you would have noticed this right away. If it spins freely, then I would assume you are ok. Just figured I would mention it to be complete.

If I have time, I may take my belt and tensioner off and put the tensioner on the other way (i.e. the correct way as it is on the 9a) and see how bad the offset is.
Shawn


----------



## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

is "crank walk" possible to have the belt not align properly like in haenszel's case? tensioner misalignment?


_Modified by the_q_jet at 4:33 PM 11-28-2007_


----------



## haenszel (Mar 14, 2004)

*Re: (the_q_jet)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the_q_jet* »_is "crank walk" possible to have the belt not align properly like in haenszel's case? tensioner misalignment?

_Modified by the_q_jet at 4:33 PM 11-28-2007_

we already spoke of a tensioner issue.... I'd think crank walk would be much more disastrous.


----------



## Mark K. (May 5, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey All,
Been keeping an eye on this thread for quite some time as I've been contemplating such a build on my 98 Audi A4 Quattro 1.8t (AEB). I'm now collecting parts and already have the OBD I ABA motor - which I've torn down in preparation for the build.
I've literally read all 38 pages of the thread, which has answered many questions. Huge thanks to Issam for the continual input and updates and additional thanks to all who've posted! Given the amount of information, it has also raised a few questions too - and since my COP application seems to be in the minority, I want to be clear on the path needed for such a build.
Page 1 is a great resource, but I'm not clear on exactly what cam gear, crank gear, IM shaft, IM shaft belt gear, and oil pump gear to use when running COP. Given I have two complete motors, (full AEB and ABA with all associated gears, shafts, pulleys etc.) clarifying what I can and can't use would really help. Here goes...
*T-Belt and Tensioner*
This is the only part I (hope) am clear on:

_Quote, originally posted by *What to Use* »_
4. TIMING BELT & TENSIONER - 157T BELT: 
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile
1. Contitech : PART# CT879
2. Gates : PART # 5432XS
_(Belt is from 1996 Fiat Bravia 1.6L 16v AH)_


The belt seems easy enough - except for sourcing it - anyone selling these stateside?
As for the tensioner - I haven't heard any other options, so that's what I'm planning on. My only question is - does the 16V tensioner dictate the need for matching cam gear, crank gear and IM shaft belt gear in terms of backspacing? This backspacing issue leads to questions regarding.... 
*....Cam Gear and Crank Gear*
I've seen no specific info regarding the use of the AEB cam and crank gears. Page 1 specifies 16V units but they are the same tooth count (52/26 respectively) as AEB gears. 
The question is: can I use the AEB gears or is there a difference in backspacing from the 16V gears? Backspacing and its affects on belt alignment with the tensioner is the only reason I can think of as to why I'd need to switch from the AEB to the 16V cam/crank gears.
*IM Shaft, IM Belt Gear and IM Oil Pump Gear:*
From Page 1:

_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Quote, originally posted by John Doe » 
"I want to build an ABA 20V but I dont need the distirbutor.What should my combination be like?"
Well since your no longer using a distributor then your IM shaft does not need to spin @ 1:2 ratio to the crankshaft so the following applies:
Quote, originally posted by What to Use » 
3. INTERMEDIATE SHAFT GEAR:
Stock 9A or PL Intermediate shaft with matching 43T IM shaft gear.Make sure you have the oil pump gear to correspond with your IM shaft. 


Can someone clarify why I can't use the complete ABA IM shaft, with its belt gear and oil pump gear?
Again - can't thank Issam enough for keeping up with this thread and many thanks to all who've added to it! Any help on these and future questions is greatly appreciated! I'll be sure to add what I can as my own project moves forward. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Mark K.
President - Cherokee Audi Club
Audi Club North America
http://www.CherokeeAudiClub.com


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mark K.)*

ok, here goes (you will probably have to read the following a few times to let it all jive







).
Just one Q before I start. Have you considered stroking the AEB block instead of the ABA? You won;t have to worry about custom timing belts, modified Oil drains in the head etc. Just figured I would throw that out there..
1.) You mention running COP or not COP, but you should probably still clarify. Meaning Distributer or no Distributor as this will dictate what IM shaft gear to use to keep the IM shaft in sync with the engine @ 1:2. I am going to assume you mean distributerless (non-dizzy).
2.) For non-Dizzy, you can either run the whole 9a IM shaft setup w/ oil pump, the AEB setup (since the AEB is still the 058 block), or you can use the ABA setup, but must modify the shaft slightly for the gear you will need to use. The ABA (like the other 8vs) use a totally different type belt and is a very narrow width which is why you can use that cog. If you don;t use the whole AEB or 9a setup and use the ABA shaft, oil pump etc, then you will need to do a few things. Run a Dist to drive the oil pump (regardless if you need the dist or not), run the BBM dizzy gizzy, etc. Also, BBM sells a hybrid cog which will allow you to use it on the ABA shaft w/o modifications to the shaft, like others using the 20v transverse Cam on the ABA IM shaft have to do for Dist. The only reason for using this larger 52T cog on the IM shaft is to run Dist and you won't be able to run the AEB lower belt guard if that matters.
3.) EDIT: -> clarified this some more -> You need to run the Cam gear that matches your head/block generation (i.e. AEB=058block = external water-pump like the ABA) to get the correct offset since there is no front oil pump chain. With the Tall block, you will most likely need an Adj cam gear to dial in your cam at 0* as the tall block seems to throw things off 1/2 tooth. It did on mine and a couple others that I have spoken with. So, you would need one for and AEB. FWIW, the 16v and AEB cam gears are the same.
4.) Not 100% about the AEB crank cog and if it is the same as the 16v (i.e. bolt size), but I know the 16v Crank cog is what you need for the ABA crank. Just to clarify again for others, all vw crank cogs are all 26T and all VW cam gears are 52T (52T/26T = 2 or 2 crank rotations to one cam/Dist).
5.) No go on the Belts you mention in the States or NA. Yes, you would need the 157T belt and 9a tensioner (installed backward and/or properly shimmed). The reason to use this roller is that it is very cheap and very good and it is a fixed (when tight) type tensioner. You could use the 20v (as I have), but you would need to modify it so that it is "fixed". For Dist applications, you need to use this tensioner (modified) along with a longer 158T belt. The belts that I have been getting are the correct belt and length. IM me if you need one.
I'll need to go back and re-read to fact check as I am just typing away..
Shawn



_Modified by sdezego at 9:23 PM 12-3-2007_


----------



## Mark K. (May 5, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_ok, here goes (you will probably have to read the following a few times to let it all jive







).


he he - no problem - thanks for the quick response! Here goes back to ya...!

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Just one Q before I start. Have you considered stroking the AEB block instead of the ABA? You won;t have to worry about custom timing belts, modified Oil drains in the head etc. Just figured I would throw that out there..

Ya, thought about that, but the car is well on its way to being a track **** and there are a number of details about the ABA that make it (IMHO) a better foundation for a reliable, high output motor than the AEB:
*Rod Length to Stroke Ratio: * You mentioned stroking the AEB - since the car will be spending much of its time at high RPM, stroking wouldn't really be in my favor and take the AEB's L/S ratio further down the "less than ideal" scale. ABA might not be ideal either, but at least an improvement. I think the AEB block would need to be clearanced for stroking too.
*Forged Crank: * One less expensive bit to buy - I'll be putting in forged rods and pistons too.
*Oil Squirters:* keeping those pistons cooler under pressure.
Using the ABA isn't the easiest route, but it'll be a much better match for my purposes than the AEB. As you mentioned, there are some other issues to deal with, but I'm up for a challenge!









_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
1.) You mention running COP or not COP, but you should probably still clarify. Meaning Distributer or no Distributor ... I am going to assume you mean distributerless (non-dizzy).

Yep - no distributor, non-dizzy, dizzy-less, etc.







Already have the 034 IIc box on the kitchen table. Great way to keep oneself motivated - since its the last thing I'll need, I guess I'm committed!

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
2.) For non-Dizzy, you can either run the whole 9a IM shaft setup w/ oil pump, the AEB setup (since the AEB is still the 058 block), or you can use the ABA setup, but must modify the shaft slightly for the gear you will need to use. 

I guess I'd prefer to run the entire AEB setup, since it's what I have and wouldn't need modification. The AEB block comes with a blockoff plate where the distributor would go - will probably transfer to the ABA, noooo problem. Only downside would be having to purchase the more expensive AEB pump - my original has 155K on it. 

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
3.) You need to run the Cam gear that matches your head (i.e. AEB) to get the correct offset. With the Tall block, you will most likely need an Adj cam gear to dial in your cam at 0* as the tall block seems to throw things off 1/2 tooth.


Wondered about the adj. cam gear - thanks for confirming. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
4.) Not 100% about the AEB crank cog and if it is the same as the 16v (i.e. bolt size), but I know the 16v Crank cog is what you need for the ABA crank. 


Ah - so its the bolt size I need to look out for? Length I'm assuming? 

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
5.) No go on the Belts you mention in the States or NA. Yes, you would need the 157T belt and 9a tensioner (installed backward and/or properly shimmed). The reason to use this roller is that it is very cheap and very good and it is a fixed (when tight) type tensioner. You could use the 20v (as I have), but you would need to modify it so that it is "fixed". For Dist applications, you need to use this tensioner (modified) along with a longer 158T belt. The belts that I have been getting are the correct belt and length. IM me if you need one.


So you have access to the 157T belt? If not, how do I get my hands on one? As for the tensioner, the 9a works for me - any particular reason you went with a modified 20V version?

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
I'll need to go back and re-read to fact check as I am just typing away..


No problem - thanks for your help!
Mark K.
President - Cherokee Audi Club
Audi Club North America
http://www.CherokeeAudiClub.com


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mark K.)*

Welcome Mark http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I see Shawn has been of some great help! http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *Mark K.* »_I think the AEB block would need to be clearanced for stroking too

Depends on the crankshaft you are using.Dont be discouraged with stroking the motor.I am running a 99mm crankshaft in an ABF block


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mark K.)*

Cool, sounds like you plan for the ABA vs the AEB block for the foundation is well thought out and I agree with everything you stated, which is why I went with the ABA.

_Quote, originally posted by *Mark K.* »_ 


_Quote, originally posted by *Mark K.* »_I guess I'd prefer to run the entire AEB setup, since it's what I have and wouldn't need modification. The AEB block comes with a blockoff plate where the distributor would go - will probably transfer to the ABA, noooo problem. Only downside would be having to purchase the more expensive AEB pump - my original has 155K on it. 

Yep, sounds like the route you should go. 
In regards to the oil pump, you may want to check out my build thread as there is a way to skirt around the $$ pump







Also, make sure the AEB pump's shaft will clear to begin with. As you will see in my thread, the 2L pumps have clearanced oil pump shafts.


_Quote, originally posted by *Mark K.* »_Ah - so its the bolt size I need to look out for? Length I'm assuming?

I just verified in ETKA, that it is the same (which is what I would have expected since the AEb is still the 058 block). So, crank cog and bolt from the AEB and 16v are the same and is what you need.


_Quote, originally posted by *Mark K.* »_So you have access to the 157T belt? If not, how do I get my hands on one? As for the tensioner, the 9a works for me - any particular reason you went with a modified 20V version? 

Yes on the belt (see my sig). I was orig going dist, so modified the 20v tensioner. Since then, I sold that setup and used the 9a roller.

Good luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Shawn


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mark K.)*

This should give you some ideas: http://www.wideopenwest.com/~johnbaas/


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_This should give you some ideas: http://www.wideopenwest.com/~johnbaas/

Wow, I can't believe I never saw that site before... There are a lot of questions and things that could have been hashed out a long time ago


----------



## Mark K. (May 5, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Hey All,
Thanks for all the help on the last round of questions! Looks like I'll be able to use all the gears from my AEB. Already got the belt from Shawn and purchased an ABA headgasket..... which brings me to the next round of inquiries: 
I pulled off the head on my AEB to to make some comparisons. Has anybody actually tried using the AEB HG? Not to retread where others have already gone - but it seems that the AEB HG is a better match for the ABA block than the ABA HG is for the AEB head. 
Looking at the used AEB HG also shows how it seals and gives a good idea of where fluids are coming into contact with the gasket. To my untrained eye - other than the large oil drain holes at the top of the picture below (that would be blocked off anyway) - all other coolant and oil ports of the ABA block match with the AEB HG quite nicely:








.... the used gasket does a pretty good job of showing where the gasket contacts and seals with the head - and it looks like there a lot of crush zone between coolant and oil passages and a "path of escape" to the large oil drain hole that would basically be "open" to the outside:








I've heard mixed results using the ABA HG and after comparing it with the AEB HG - I'm oh so tempted to go against conventional wisdom and try it. I don't have the talent or equipment to re-engineneer the head to better match the ABA gasket (ala Shawn! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) and am looking for alternate routes.
Next - anyone intersted in a custom gasket?
Mark K.
President - Cherokee Audi Club
Audi Club North America
http://www.CherokeeAudiClub.com


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mark K.)*

My personal opinion is that the ABA gasket is a much better match than the AEB. I bought them both, along with the AEG for giggles.
Also, it is my opinion that head welding is NOT a must, but the fail proof way of modifying the head's oil drains for the 20v.
S


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

Teaser pic








Here it is: Serpentine belt to drive all accessories and *no* V belt. Note, this same setup could be used w/o Power steering and/or A/C (which would certainly simplify things).
Everything is fabricated so what you see is "ready to run"! I just need to take it back down, pretty up all the brackets a bit and paint them. Needless to say, the development and creation of these was a painstakingly long process. I can't begin to tell you how much time I have in this setup and it is hard to see all of the custom mounts







Everything was carefully and methodically done the way you see it, so if you have any questions on why I did something feel free to ask.
All I ask, is that if you copy the setup, you give me proper credits








Shawn

*Click for larger pic*
 


_Modified by sdezego at 10:47 PM 12-20-2007_


----------



## kompressorgolf (Dec 6, 2005)

Question? Im puttin a 16vt together. Im using a PG bottom end and puttin a 16v head on it. Can i still use the g60 rods and if so what pistons would you recommend still keepin the same stroke and 8.1 compression.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (kompressorgolf)*

Shawn this looks amazing.Check your pm!

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
All I ask, is that if you copy the setup, you give me proper credits


















Everyone please not the the water pump stil turns clockwise and NOT anti-clockwise like the other set ups shown out there.

_Quote, originally posted by *kompressorgolf* »_Question? Im puttin a 16vt together. Im using a PG bottom end and puttin a 16v head on it. Can i still use the g60 rods and if so what pistons would you recommend still keepin the same stroke and 8.1 compression.

If you use the PG rods you will need to get custom pistons made which really does not make sense...
If you can get your hand on some 144mm/20mm connecting rods then you can use the 9A pistons + 2 ABA head gaskets.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

holy crap that's gorgeous... Good job dude... I think I have a few weekends free coming up to start putting mine back together.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Who has had 16v pistons notched for the 5th valve? Pictures? How did you instructed the machinist to do the cuts?
Thanks,
Rey


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Who has had 16v pistons notched for the 5th valve? Pictures? How did you instructed the machinist to do the cuts?
Thanks,
Rey

Westcoastjay has the 16V pistons notched for the #5 intake valve but dont bother,just get the correct pistons from JE.


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Finishing up wiring my internal waterpump 20v swap (Haltech E6K stand alone, and MSD Dis dig2) trying to figure out two last things.....
1. How to wire the crank trigger from the stock 20v crank sensor properly,(or should I try to use the cam position sensor?) 
does anyone know if the 20v is a "reluctor type" or a "Hall effect type"? Has anyone on here wired/used the stock 20 sensors as triggers? THIS IS A HUGE STUMBLING BLOCK FOR ME RIGHT NOW... so Im turing to you guys http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
2. How to wire so my stock Corrado G60 Tach will work (I think I wire the tach single wire from the MSD to....one of the stock G60 coil wires??). thanxs in advance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## WanganLLama (Apr 15, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (10SecCorrado)*

not to take this great thread in a different direction, but i'm planning on using my e6k on my aba engine (should be the exact same crank setup as all the 20v's). after searching till i was blue in the face this is what i came up with, but i personally have no clue if it's right:
using an E6X
Ingintion set up:
trigger is set @ 72
tooth 1
spark mode, direct fire 
output, constnt charge
edge, falling
constant period @ 1.5
Trigger set up:
angle 72
Type: Motronic
teeth 120 / offset 1
trigger input, internal Reluctor
edge, rising
home input, hall effect
home edge, rising
OR from another thread (the guy was trying to figure out why his engine wasn't running right, so these may be bad settings):
Haltech E6k 1.8t AEB, MSD Dis-2
the car runs but not well
Ingintion setup Page
Trigger Input: Internal Reluctor
Trigger Gain: 3
Trigger Mose: Adaptive
Trigger Angle BTDC: 76
Trigger Type :Motronic
Spark Mode: Direct Fire
Engine Type: Piston
Output Type : Constant Charge
Coil Charge Time: 2.5ms
Output Edge: Falling
Teeth: 60
Tooth Offset:2
PLEASE let me know if you get this all sorted out (i'm a few months away from needing to tackle this stuff on my car). i hope this info is helpful


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (WanganLLama)*

Quick look and it looks correct.
(ABA and 1.8t) 60-2 sensor on crank is a VR (reluctor) sensor. Cam trigger is a Hall (if you are in need of the second trigger) i.e. for sequential COP (coil on plug).
-Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 4:42 PM 1-15-2008_


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (10SecCorrado)*

agn manifold:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Neu-4-2-1-O...wItem


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (G60ING)*

Looks like it was crushed by something.


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*

thats standard for the AGN manifold. the two dings are supposed to allow better access for removing the nuts.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (G60ING)*


_Quote, originally posted by *G60ING* »_agn manifold:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Neu-4-2-1-O...wItem

$120US so far + shipping.On average these can be had for ! $250US shipped.I am working on getting some done for about 890US to resemble something like Mendra's.Only for MKII and Corrado though.


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*









16v too?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (TehLonz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TehLonz* »_








16v too?









Is 16V needed?What about the Eurosport and TT headers out there?


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Is 16V needed?What about the Eurosport and TT headers out there?

True, I guess the 20v guys have the harder time getting a header


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (TehLonz)*

yep the Header I am using (quite a few pages back) is a 16v SuperSprint Header. I need to re-flange it for the 20v and do some slight finagling.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_yep the Header I am using (quite a few pages back) is a 16v SuperSprint Header. I need to re-flange it for the 20v and do some slight finagling.

Sure thats going to work Shawn?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

yep, but it won't be a simple re-flange. I need to also add a very small radius to each tube by the flange since the 16v head's Ex flange is parallel with the block and the 20v has a small angle which makes the back of the header kick up slightly.
Not a big deal.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_yep, but it won't be a simple re-flange. I need to also add a very small radius to each tube by the flange since the 16v head's Ex flange is parallel with the block and the 20v has a small angle which makes the back of the header kick up slightly.
Not a big deal.

Look how sexy this looks....









_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

I want a collector shot


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (TehLonz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TehLonz* »_I want a collector shot









Soon,with Mendra permission I am replicating the manifold to my specs.


----------



## speeding-g60 (Aug 1, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

watching for info


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Damn Wiz your doing big things.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (mocas)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mocas* »_Damn Wiz your doing big things.









Dont you think it was about time?Tired of seeing companies in this industry making the same things....OVER...and OVER again.My biggest obstacle is time but hold tight,alot of goodies coming soon.


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Dont you think it was about time?Tired of seeing companies in this industry making the same things....OVER...and OVER again.My biggest obstacle is time but hold tight,alot of goodies coming soon.









Yup definitely about time you started your own thing, really happy with that stroker kit your offering and hopefully one day i will get one myself for my ABA 16V motor i plan on building. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (mocas)*

bump


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

Well after starting this project with a Lysholm, and building an intake and EVERYTHING around that, half way through, my buddy speeding-g60 sold me his turbo set up, soooo it seems like I had to start all over in many areas to accommodate the change from a charger to a turbo. Although Im sure I will be much more pleased at the end result.
Anyways, heres some pics I took this evening, after finishing up the new intake and putting it on finally. Please excuse the messy engine bay, as things are still seriously under construction. but hey, Im that much closer








First I cut apart a stock AEB intake, leaving the runners as long as possible. Then cut a piece of aluminum tube in half, and two triangles out of sheeting.








Then after learning with my first intake the importance of the inside edges being rounded...well you can see..
















Once everything was together, then it sat for honestly a week while I tried to decide where and how I wanted to install the vacum lines (use a separate manifold block, or Ts, or..) Finally I just drilled and tapped a few ports in the bottom. Then polished her up and put her on, FINALLY http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Not4show (Jun 11, 2004)

pretty much did the same thing with my mani, but I actually didn't cut the entire plenum off, I left the back wall, and was able to use the 2 stock vaccum line ports, one for megasquirt the other for FPR, then I had an extra plate welded to bottom of plenum and tapped in the rest of vaccuum ports there
older pic








another test fit shot







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by Not4show at 7:41 AM 3-25-2008_


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (MK1SRocc)*

Sorry if this has been covered but i didnt have time to read the 39 pages yet... 
but im in the beginning research stages of 20/20, i have a BGD shortblock with 40k, is this good for the 20v head? it has oil squirters and a huge oil pump... compared to the AEG which i didnt see any oil squirters and it had a tiny stock looking oil pump. 
Also are the stock pistons ok to use if i notch them, or are they junk? thanks in advance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by 2deepn2dubs at 12:42 PM 4-22-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_Sorry if this has been covered but i didnt have time to read the 39 pages yet... 
but im in the beginning research stages of 20/20, i have a BGD shortblock with 40k, is this good for the 20v head? it has oil squirters and a huge oil pump... compared to the AEG which i didnt see any oil squirters and it had a tiny stock looking oil pump. 
Also are the stock pistons ok to use if i notch them, or are they junk? thanks in advance http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


AEG does have oil squirters.








And stock pistons are not ok.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_AEG does have oil squirters.








And stock pistons are not ok.

Sorry, AEG does not, but everything newer (AZG+) does.


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
Sorry, AEG does not, but everything newer (AZG+) does.
yeah cause i was gonna say i didnt see any on the AEG that i pulled apart at the junkyard... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Sorry, AEG does not, but everything newer (AZG+) does.

I once pulled apart an AEG motor from Europe that had oil squirters







A North American thing?


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

well heres the BGD i have... whats up with this huge oil pump??


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_well heres the BGD i have... whats up with this huge oil pump??

Looks like the FSI oil pump to me.What are you doing for the oil filter housing?


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

i have the one off the aeg, from the junkyard... should be same right?


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

heres the AEG oil filter housing and the BGD block... all the bolt holes line up, ill go back to the junkyard tomorrow and take some comparative pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


























_Modified by 2deepn2dubs at 10:51 PM 4-22-2008_


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*

oops just realized we should be discussing in this thread...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2436326


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_heres the AEG oil filter housing and the BGD block... all the bolt holes line up, ill go back to the junkyard tomorrow and take some comparative pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Your good to go then http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The newer BPY motor uses the same oil pump but a different oil filter housing flange:








Notice how both blocks do not have the thermostat bypass pipe that you would find in the 1.8T motor.You are going to have to open this up.


----------



## VR6BUG (May 13, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

I want to do a g60 with a 20valve head so bad in my MKI


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

my BGD does have the bypass, you can barely see it here...








question; does the AEG oil pump flow the same as BGD and will i gain hp by switching to the AEG pump? heres the pics i took of the AEG...


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*

BGD has balance shafts also, hence the bigger unit. Yes, you would gain some HP by going to the non balance shaft setup. I would double check that the AEG oil pump is the same part number as the later codes with oil squirters though.


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (vwpat)*

wouldnt all later codes have the balance shafts?


_Modified by 2deepn2dubs at 7:44 AM 4-24-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_wouldnt all later codes have the balance shafts?

Pretty much,not that I see the point of it given how robust the 1.8T engine was minus the timing belt failures.


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

so will the aeg oil pump work on my bgd20vt?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_so will the aeg oil pump work on my bgd20vt?

It should considering it is still a 06A block.


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

soooo, whats everyone doing for engine management???


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_soooo, whats everyone doing for engine management???

034efi.com
Contact me if you want one.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_soooo, whats everyone doing for engine management???

Megasquirt FTW!


----------



## 2deepn2dubs (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
034efi.com
Contact me if you want one.
im sent

_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
Megasquirt FTW!








all in all how much did the megasquirt run you?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (2deepn2dubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *2deepn2dubs* »_im sent

IM replied.
This is a very nice Jetta Bryce!


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

what type of headbolts or studs to use with a 20v head on a 3A and/or ABA?


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Mk2 SAiNT)*

for the aba anyways I believe you need the raceware 20v headstuds.


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Timing Belt info (96jettatrek2.0)*

the diameter of the bolt holes on the ABA is larger and the pitch of the thread is different...


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Mk2 SAiNT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk2 SAiNT* »_what type of headbolts or studs to use with a 20v head on a 3A and/or ABA?








AEB headbolts.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Mk2 SAiNT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk2 SAiNT* »_the diameter of the bolt holes on the ABA is larger and the pitch of the thread is different... 

was that directed at me? I checked my raceware 20v head studs last night again and they screwed into the ABA block just fine? Don't know about the other blocks though


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (96jettatrek2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *96jettatrek2.0* »_was that directed at me? I checked my raceware 20v head studs last night again and they screwed into the ABA block just fine? Don't know about the other blocks though

AEB 20v head bolts = ABA head bolts
AWP/AWD/AWW and newer != AEB/ABA bolts
You have AEB head bolts


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_
AEB 20v head bolts = ABA head bolts


That is not correct. Thread size yes, but ABA are the same as all other 8v's and are a different length and have a different head size than the 20vAEB.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: Timing Belt info (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
That is not correct. Thread size yes, but ABA are the same as all other 8v's and are a different length and have a different head size than the 20vAEB.

right because the ARP ABA head studs don't work with the aeb head.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (96jettatrek2.0)*

Only Raceware makes head studs for the Inline-4 20V cylinder head.ARP is in the process of making them....when they are done I will let everyone know.


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

From where do you guys source the different teeth t-belts?
Can you get them from the local parts store once you know the require tooth count?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_From where do you guys source the different teeth t-belts?
Can you get them from the local parts store once you know the require tooth count?

From Napa.Contitech has a wide range of belts to choose from.Just slack the tensioner all the way,get the length you desire and find a belt within the range.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_From where do you guys source the different teeth t-belts?
Can you get them from the local parts store once you know the require tooth count?

It depends. Short block 2020, yes Napa. Internal water pump block, napa. But if you are using a tall block 2020 (i.e. ABA with or without distributor) then you must get a custom belt made.
IM me if you have any questions.
Shawn


----------



## elRey (May 15, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (sdezego)*

Looking for a 142-143 tooth belt (16v mk4 internal WP block) <- off topic
is 19mm too narrow? (23mm being optimal).


_Modified by elRey at 9:37 PM 5-14-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Looking for a 142-143 tooth belt (16v mk4 internal WP block) <- off topic
is 19mm too narrow? (23mm being optimal).

19mm is fine.I will see what I can find for you.Your using an AEG head gasket I assume.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (elRey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *elRey* »_Looking for a 142-143 tooth belt (16v mk4 internal WP block) <- off topic
is 19mm too narrow? (23mm being optimal).



_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
19mm is fine.

25mm should be optimal and I disagree and say 19 is too narrow. You are losing 1/4 of the width and therefore 1/4 of the belt strength.
I checked my cross ref cat for Conti and their proper belts for VW tooth/pitch for your sizing only come as follows:
142T - 20mm/30mm/...
->143T - not made
144T - 20mm/30mm/...
There is no 143T and the proper thing would be to take the wider 30mm 142T (if 142 will work) belt and have it custom cut to 25mm width.
Any more discussion on this should be started in a new thread since this is not 2020 related.
cheers
Shawn


_Modified by sdezego at 11:07 AM 5-15-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_
25mm should be optimal and I disagree and say 19 is too narrow. You are losing 1/4 of the width and therefore 1/4 of the belt strength.

How thick you think the 8V belt is Shawn?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
How thick you think the 8V belt is Shawn?
















I'll pretend you are not actually serious.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_







I'll pretend you are not actually serious.

Obviously the wider the belt the better but if there is no belt in the desired width then the only option left is to go with a narrower belt.The 8V belt is a very narrow belt and it has helped fine in 400+hp applications.
Dont take that to mean that I am saying narrower = better.


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Bump
I'm still skeptical about AEB headbolts on a ABA block (since they're a different thread pitch). Has anyone ever use ARP Headbolts to secure the cylinder head on??


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Mk2 SAiNT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk2 SAiNT* »_Bump
I'm still skeptical about AEB headbolts on a ABA block (since they're a different thread pitch). Has anyone ever use ARP Headbolts to secure the cylinder head on??

AEB and ABA = 058 Type Block = Same Head Bolt thread and pitch
Raceware is the only company to date to make studs for the AEB and they are very pricey.


----------



## 10SecCorrado (Dec 23, 2006)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Ok, you guys are confusing me on head gasket/bolts..
Lately Ive swapped heads onto different blocks... the way I see it (and please DO tell me if Im wrong wiz)... If Im putting an AEB head onto my internal waterpump block that came with an APH head, THEN, I will use an APH head gasket and head bolts, as only they will have the same size/thread to fit my block.
And when I put the APH head onto the Passat, I used an AEB headgasket with AEB bolts.
As to belts, I used stock belts AFTER I changed over the Cam gears, Idler and tensioners.
FYI, I drove the Passat for the last two weeks before selling it, and I couldnt tell any difference in power on the small port head on there








But I imagine I WILL benefit from the AEB head on my internal waterpump in my Corrado.
Does it matter what headgasket you use in these swaps?
Also, when swapping with heads that have the Variable timing, will the engine run fine, If I put a head on that doesnt have it? (swapping a 2001 Jetta non VVT head into a 2001 Audi-A4 that CAME with a VVT on the head and plug). Its my understanding from searches on here, it only helps a very small amount on cold cold starts....










_Modified by 10SecCorrado at 12:24 PM 5-31-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (10SecCorrado)*

Keep the head gaskets consistent with the blocks you are using ( 1.8T's have the same head gaskets) , however , the head bolts are different. Internal water pump has 10mm bolts and external (AEB) has 11mm bolts.
You need to install the VVT timing chain tensioner into the head that is going into the VVT equipped vehicle.If the vehicle does not have VVT then no need to swap the tensioner.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

G60 cogged gear set ups coming soon


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Westcoastjay has the 16V pistons notched for the #5 intake valve but dont bother,just get the correct pistons from JE.

Hey Wiz, that was actually me that had the 16V pistons turned down and notched.
How I did it: got my hands on a 1.8T piston and had the machinist match the 16V piston to that.
Still saved me a few hudred bucks to do it with the OE 16V pistons - the +0.5mm piston set was about 300 (tax in) and the machining was 30/piston!
JE - ~700+

Justin



_Modified by squeeze at 12:04 PM 6-16-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (squeeze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_
Still saved me a few hudred bucks to do it with the OE 16V pistons - the +0.5mm piston set was about 300 (tax in) and the machining was 30/piston!
JE - ~700+

And Supertech are 550


----------



## billibum (Jun 19, 2008)

watching for info


----------



## squeeze (Sep 4, 2004)

*Has anyone dyno'd one of these Frankenmotors?*

Just curious....


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: Has anyone dyno'd one of these Frankenmotors? (squeeze)*

Here is a N/A one about halfway down the page, setup is in his sig.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...ge=18


_Modified by vwpat at 12:09 PM 7-8-2008_


----------



## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (squeeze)*


_Quote, originally posted by *squeeze* »_
Hey Wiz, that was actually me that had the 16V pistons turned down and notched.
How I did it: got my hands on a 1.8T piston and had the machinist match the 16V piston to that.
Still saved me a few hudred bucks to do it with the OE 16V pistons - the +0.5mm piston set was about 300 (tax in) and the machining was 30/piston!
JE - ~700+

Justin
_Modified by squeeze at 12:04 PM 6-16-2008_

man...i got je's made for my aba16v, and i wanted 9:1 compression. that meant no shelf pistons avail. i also went with the fsr forging. throw in the dome coating and tough skirt coating, for a total of like $870. man..mustangs get a set of 8 for less!!


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*

[email protected]*BUMP*


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Mk2 SAiNT)*

AEB (20v 1.8t 9.5:1) vs ADR (20v 1.8 n/a 10.5:1)slugs.. 
AEB:

ADR:

AEB:

ADR:


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (psykokid)*

bump


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (psykokid)*


_Quote, originally posted by *psykokid* »_
ADR:



Looks about right
Too bad they only come in 81mm bore


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Looks about right
Too bad they only come in 81mm bore









Id like to see what a 30v 3.0 V6 slug looks like. I have a hunch its similar.. Just different dimensions..


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (psykokid)*

similar, valve reliefs on both sides. Compression height of ~28mm and 20mm pin (measurements were given to me, I did not do them. Hard to believe they have a 20mm pin.)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_similar, valve reliefs on both sides. Compression height of *~28mm* and 20mm pin (measurements were given to me, I did not do them. Hard to believe they have a 20mm pin.) 

2.0 has Compression height of 29.6mm.Good to know for all those stroker boys wanting to get an OEM forged piston that will be relatively low CR when placed in the 220mm block assuming they are high NA.


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*



Wizard-of-OD said:


> WTF since when does a 20v Valve cover fit on a 16V head?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (mocas)*

that is a 20v head with a custom manifold made from a 16v intake (running CIS







)


----------



## mocas (Aug 31, 2005)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Thanks shawn thats what I thought i was just confused how they put the 1.8T CPS on the 16v head lol . http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Cheers


_Modified by mocas at 10:31 AM 9-11-2008_


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (mocas)*

also interesting how they mounted a Dist on the D/S of the head like the 16v. It is definitely not your garden variety build, haha


----------



## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

owo!...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_also interesting how they mounted a Dist on the D/S of the head like the 16v. It is definitely not your garden variety build, haha

Someone with way too much time on there hands.


----------



## titeGTi (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (vwpat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk2 SAiNT* »_what type of headbolts or studs to use with a 20v head on a 3A and/or ABA?


_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_AEB headbolts.

anyone used eurospec non-stretch AEB headbolts? cheaper alternative to racewares? for aeb/aba set up. 058 198 385R
edit to add link http://www.eurospecsport.com/p...e.htm


_Modified by titeGTi at 8:39 PM 10-7-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (titeGTi)*

Give it a couple of weeks.We are working with ARP now to release 11mm head bolts.


----------



## titeGTi (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

will they be more reasonably priced than the raceware junx?


----------



## glaciuz (Jun 15, 2002)

I have an AEB Head with AEG block. Can I use the engine management from the AEB engine? Will the crank sensor and everything else on the engine work? do they use the same setup? 60-2 iirc.


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

NA 20V Exhaust Manifold Manifold, Brand New:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4058722


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *glaciuz* »_Will the crank sensor and everything else on the engine work? do they use the same setup? 60-2 iirc.


Yes you can
should be direct and good to go.








One of my customers sent me this:








Very clean execution of the work done.
http://www.vwquebec.ca/forum/s...98877
Shawn I think you will like what he did with the header


----------



## glaciuz (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Yes you can
should be direct and good to go.










I should use the AEG crank sensor with the AEB ECU? They don't have the same connectors. Both are 3 pins though. Should I put the AEB crank sensor on the engine? or should I redo the connector on the AEG sensor?


----------



## psykokid (Apr 2, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (glaciuz)*

use the sensor that goes with the harness/ecu you are using. in this case if you are using the AEB harness/ecu then use the AEB crank sensor..


----------



## glaciuz (Jun 15, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (psykokid)*

Ok, thanks.
Cause someone at the local shop told me it wouldn't work cause the two cranks from AEG and AEB are using different setup (not both 60-2 tooth crankshaft wheel).
I will do then! thanks.


----------



## 96jettatrek2.0 (Mar 15, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (glaciuz)*

if anybody wants one ready to assemble ... http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4094733


----------



## glaciuz (Jun 15, 2002)

hey, I've received these today,
















But I have an other question, which headbolts should I use with AEG block and AEB head?
Also, the only "oversized" headgasket I found was a 034 one, any other brand in mind?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *glaciuz* »_which headbolts should I use with AEG block and AEB head?

10mm units
Your head bolts and gasket are on there way








So...just a glimpse of whats to come.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
10mm units
Your head bolts and gasket are on there way








So...just a glimpse of whats to come.









Jesus... Why haven't you shipped this to me already. LOL








It is beautiful, and I have need for one. Can you PM me the price?


----------



## vwnut18t (Jun 5, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
10mm units
Your head bolts and gasket are on there way








So...just a glimpse of whats to come.









Wow, very impresive http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_Give it a couple of weeks.We are working with ARP now to release 11mm head bolts.

Is ARP making these yet???


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Mk2 SAiNT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mk2 SAiNT* »_
Is ARP making these yet???

They are making them now.








Check the FI classifieds though,every now and again an 11mm Raceware kit comes up.


----------



## iluvfastcarz (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Sorry if this is off topic, would anyone know what timing belt to use on a full AEB engine with the 52T IM shaft pulley (for the distributor) and the fixed 9A belt tensioner? TIA


----------



## iluvfastcarz (Mar 15, 2004)

anyone?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (iluvfastcarz)*

Sorry did not see this...

_Quote, originally posted by *iluvfastcarz* »_Sorry if this is off topic, would anyone know what timing belt to use on a full AEB engine with the 52T IM shaft pulley (for the distributor) and the fixed 9A belt tensioner?

The stock AEB belt worked when I mocked mine up a couple of years ago.You have to remember the AEB has a hydraulic tensioner which you have eliminated in your set up so with the larger IM shaft gear the belt should work back fine.


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hi
I've started this project, and have been following this post intently.
Thanks for the fantastic hints and tips, it's been one of the things that kept me going ... it's an awesome project....
Q: What's the chances of putting all these steps, and valid details onto the 1st post. It's pretty difficult scrolling thru each of the 41 pages. (if it's not too much to ask, u've already supplied so much)


_Modified by supey at 1:12 PM 12-19-2008_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Timing Belt info (supey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *supey* »_Hi
I've started this project, and have been following this post intently.
Thanks for the fantastic hints and tips, it's been one of the things that kept me going ... it's an awesome project....
Q: What's the chances of putting all these steps, and valid details onto the 1st post. It's pretty difficult scrolling thru each of the 41 pages. (if it's not too much to ask, u've already supplied so much)

Everything you need/want to know is in the 1st post.If there is anything you can think of that is NOT in the 1st post I would love for you to give me feedback /ideas.


----------



## iluvfastcarz (Mar 15, 2004)

nope the stock aeb belt is a little two short, a few more teeth and it would be perfect, any suggestions.


----------



## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
10mm units
Your head bolts and gasket are on there way








So...just a glimpse of whats to come.









Very nice - almost as pretty as mine.


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: Timing Belt info (Wizard-of-OD)*

Hey ... 
Eg: I unfortunately only got to find out about the headbolts after I purchased it, and only then saw a post stating that it should be the 20v's bolts ...







(which was somewhere in the middle of the 40pages LOL) But is kewl. No worries.


----------



## Tomandante (Jan 30, 2004)

*FV-QR*

It was probably stated before, but how much power people is getting with this set up?


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Headbolts*

I've had 2 sets now ... 
the 8v headbolts = washer and head too big ...








20v AGU headbolts are too long ...















The bolts I need, must probably be M10x1.5x96 ... 
 *Sooo ... which bolts do I use ????* 
Please guys, I'm getting desperate enough that I wanna cut the 20v bolts shorter ... (







)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (iluvfastcarz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *iluvfastcarz* »_nope the stock aeb belt is a little two short, a few more teeth and it would be perfect, any suggestions.

52T gear on the IM shaft + 220mm block + stock 9A tensioner + stock AEB crankshaft & camshaft gear = AEB timing belt.
What is the part # of your tensioner?

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_
Very nice - almost as pretty as mine.
















almost? ha...

















_Quote, originally posted by *supey* »_ I've had 2 sets now ... 
the 8v headbolts = washer and head too big ...








20v AGU headbolts are too long ...















The bolts I need, must probably be M10x1.5x96 ... 
 *Sooo ... which bolts do I use ????* 
Please guys, I'm getting desperate enough that I wanna cut the 20v bolts shorter ... (







) 

I am going to assume ABA block & AGU head which means you need head bolts from an AEB : *M11x1.5x96mm*


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I am going to assume ABA block & AGU head which means you need head bolts from an AEB : *M11x1.5x96mm*

Sorry, didn't give u enuff info ... 
220mm block + AGU head. 
Will this fit the AGU head, cause the 8v bolts were of same size, but washer and head of bolt did not make it thru the top of the head? The block I'm using is an old carb block with no oilsquirters







. 
I only need this info, source a 20v camgear, and 16v crank gear, and it's good to go ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Regards
Monier


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (supey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *supey* »_The block I'm using is an old carb block with no oilsquirters

M11 x 1.5 x 96mm


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

Shot buddy. Really appreciate all your help. Sorry for asking the same question more than once(loco). Only realise now. sounds paranoid, but just trying to avoid buying the wrong stuff again ...


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (supey)*

When it comes to the VW engines Wizard-of-OD should change his user name to Oracle-of-Engines. He and about three others i know on the board actually know their ****.


----------



## deth_core (Jul 12, 2002)

issam http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## slammed86golf (Aug 2, 2006)

when is the ina site going to be up and running?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (slammed86golf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slammed86golf* »_when is the ina site going to be up and running?

Should have been up January 1st 2009 but the server which the website is hosted on took a hit.Ive been pulling my hair out as I can not even get the under construction page up.


----------



## slammed86golf (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Should have been up January 1st 2009 but the server which the website is hosted on took a hit.Ive been pulling my hair out as I can not even get the under construction page up.

o that sucks hope you get everthing fixed, i cant wait to take a look at the site and the SC set-up for the 20v.










_Modified by slammed86golf at 3:30 PM 1-6-2009_


----------



## shouldaleang60 (Sep 1, 2006)

hey great right up! any suggestions on engine management?
such as use my digi 1 (with a chip ) setup in my corrado or mega squirt? 
IF mega squirt in suggestions on which system to use i like to control fuel and spark,Also launch control would be nice


----------



## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: (shouldaleang60)*

034 efi


----------



## shouldaleang60 (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (MA_XXX)*

way to expensive and most of the system you can only conrtol fuel.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (shouldaleang60)*

Your answer is back on page 39. Thanks for shopping


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (shouldaleang60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shouldaleang60* »_way to expensive and most of the system you can only conrtol fuel.









What?


----------



## MA_XXX (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

ummm... yeah.
what?


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*Re: (MA_XXX)*

I think he thinks 034efi is too much for a standalone system in which the lower end models only control fuel.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (TehLonz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TehLonz* »_I think he thinks 034efi is too much for a standalone system in which the lower end models only control fuel.

As a recent 034EFI install. I switched from Microtech which was less money than the 034 but found out the hard way that they where basically impossible to deal with. I have seen the Mega Squirt and am NOT impressed. Microtech is from Austrailia, if something breaks your out a car for 2 months minimum.
My 01C has many features even more expensive units don't have and the SUPPORT from 034 is worth $750.00 on its own. IMHO. People who complain about prices usually aren't in the game and have never done anything...other than complain. The wide bad emulator using an LC-1 makes tuning pretty much a snap.
Autronic, Motec, DTA...nice. But their expensive.


_Modified by hypothetical at 11:05 PM 1-8-2009_


----------



## shouldaleang60 (Sep 1, 2006)

*Re: (hypothetical)*

i just didnt know if it was worth it for the 034. I have dta e48 now and i dont like it maybe just cause its really old. Just seems like everyone i talked to that has megasquirt loves it.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: (shouldaleang60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shouldaleang60* »_i just didnt know if it was worth it for the 034. I have dta e48 now and i dont like it maybe just cause its really old. Just seems like everyone i talked to that has megasquirt loves it.

I would say with the new Firm Ware you would be hard pressed to find all the features for the price point along with the SUPPORT in the USA for an 01C or 02C. DTA e48 is pretty old but if your getting it done with it(Meeting your goals) then stick with it.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (shouldaleang60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shouldaleang60* »_i just didnt know if it was worth it for the 034. I have dta e48 now and i dont like it maybe just cause its really old. Just seems like everyone i talked to that has megasquirt loves it.

DTA vs 034 is a chalk vs cheese comarison.Megasquirt is great if you know what you are doing.I can easily say there are only a handful of forum members who know what they are doing...


----------



## shouldaleang60 (Sep 1, 2006)

Okay thanks for everyones input i really appreciate it. Basically go for the 034, cause its worth it, And has a vase range of support.


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Cooling*

Alright ... most of the obstacles are gone now ... The belt I got is a Audi 153T belt ... Timing's set, waiting for the dizzycap of pigeon/citris. 
Possible problem is that the belt shifts to one side, and I have the fear that it'll run off the gears







... kinda remedied that with flipping the tensioner(AGU). *Is there gonna be a problem with this ???* Turned the engine a coupla revs, and it was running fine like that, but ofcourse it'll be a different story when the thing is actually running. 

*Anyone got pics of their setup yet?* Would love to see how ur cooling system is working out. Got a bit of a snag with the Radiator hose being in the way of the sidedraughts(maybe).







and then there's the pipes that'll need to lead to the cylinderhead's 1 inlet for the hose. so looks like I need some kind of "T" connection to connect it all, and run to the flangs on the head, and also connect 1 straight pipe to the heater from the flangs, (and the return from the heater?)*Pics Please*. The block is basically the one found in the mk2 GTI. 
Then wiring on the tempsender located on da flangs should cover most of my worries re:temp gauges/switches. *Anyone got wiring legend for this switch.* (I'm looking it up, but incase someone's already been there, would save me lots of searchtime http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )
once that's sorted will hookup carbs(running oldschool[DCOE]) and startup. My whole setup is really a mock, so will be doing the engineering after I'm happy that it works, and is realiable. Eventhough it's the spare car, the wife needs to have that ease of mind u know







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Appreciate if anyone can help.








Regards
Monier


----------



## kpz315 (Nov 15, 2007)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*

so to do an in block dizzy on a AEB I need what? A PL im shaft or a stock one? a 16v or a 20v cam gear? A 1.8 dizzy from a mk2 with a single window hall in it? what oil pump, the mk2 8v, PL, or AEB? and what size timing belt? what tensioner setup do I need? whats the citreon cap number? what do i do with the 20v cam sensor? whats the part number for that mk3 pan with an oil return already on it too?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Cooling (supey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *supey* »_Got a bit of a snag with the Radiator hose being in the way of the sidedraughts(maybe).







and then there's the pipes that'll need to lead to the cylinderhead's 1 inlet for the hose. so looks like I need some kind of "T" connection to connect it all, and run to the flangs on the head, and also connect 1 straight pipe to the heater from the flangs, (and the return from the heater?)*Pics Please*. The block is basically the one found in the mk2 GTI. 

What water pump housing are you using?

_Quote, originally posted by *kpz315* »_so to do an in block dizzy on a AEB I need what? A PL im shaft or a stock one? a 16v or a 20v cam gear? A 1.8 dizzy from a mk2 with a single window hall in it? what oil pump, the mk2 8v, PL, or AEB? and what size timing belt? what tensioner setup do I need? whats the citreon cap number? what do i do with the 20v cam sensor? whats the part number for that mk3 pan with an oil return already on it too?

You need a 1.8 distrubutor.A 2.0 distributor will not fit in the AEB hole.Follow the same procedures as outlined on page 1.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: Cooling (Wizard-of-OD)*

I have a PL IM shaft for a dizzy in the AEB, which cam gear the AEB or 16v? do they both need spaced? how much?
what oil pump for the 1.8l dizzy?
whats the part number for the 90 degree peugot cap? whats the part number for the mk3 tdi pulley?
when changing hall windows how do i line up the one window as opposed to the 4 window when i change them?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Cooling (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_I have a PL IM shaft for a dizzy in the AEB, which cam gear the AEB or 16v? do they both need spaced? how much?

PL used a head mounted distirbutor? The AEB follows the same set up as the old 1.8's.
AEB cam gear = 16V cam gear.Same # of teeth,diameter etc etc
Take the AEB IM shaft,put a camgear on it and source a 1.8 block mounted distributor as well as oil pump.

_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_
what oil pump for the 1.8l dizzy?

Take the oil pump shaft from the 1.8 and put it into the AEB oil pump.AEB has 36mm gear oil pump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_
whats the part number for the 90 degree peugot cap? whats the part number for the mk3 tdi pulley?

dpgreek has one for sale.If not then get one from ebay - search Fiat X9 dizzy cap.
If you need a crank gear send me a PM.The 243T TDI unit is 300+ @ the dealer.

_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_
when changing hall windows how do i line up the one window as opposed to the 4 window when i change them?

There should be a slot for it in the distributor.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Wizard-of-OD*

right so how much does the cam gear need spaced on the PL im shaft?
is this the right TDI pulley? http://www.mjmautohaus.com/cat...=3273
is there a lower timing cover that fits the cam gear or should i make one from the ABA and AEB together?
the dizzy shaft is splined so i can put the one window wheel anywhere, where should it be in relation to the rotor notch?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Wizard-of-OD (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_right so how much does the cam gear need spaced on the PL im shaft?
is this the right TDI pulley? http://www.mjmautohaus.com/cat...=3273
is there a lower timing cover that fits the cam gear or should i make one from the ABA and AEB together?
the dizzy shaft is splined so i can put the one window wheel anywhere, where should it be in relation to the rotor notch?

line up the PL IM shaft gear to the crank gear and you should be able to figure out how much you need to offset.
That is the correct gear but I highly doubt they can get it @ that price of $64.95








The AEB one should work back fine assuming you are staying with an all AEB motor.


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: Wizard-of-OD (Wizard-of-OD)*

Which peugeot does this come from? I found one , but was too short, ie. rotor wouldn't allow enuff clearance to fit.











_Modified by supey at 8:19 AM 1-24-2009_


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: Cooling (Wizard-of-OD)*

Thinking of blocking up the housing that would have connected to the steel pipe running to the heaterhose, and let the connection from the oilcooler go to the heaterhose, and then the return from the heaterhose to the flanges on the AGU head. Then the pipe that would have connected to the flanges on the front of the 8v head, will be routed to the other pipe on the flanges of the AGU head but then somehow get a T/Y joint so that the radiator top hose joins this pipe. ???








this it the pump housing 
Also got a prop with the Dizzycap for the 220mm block ... can't find one







which model car is it from ... heard about a FIAT dizzycap being used for 16v conversion .. ??? which FIAT ... will it work???
Help please ... pics ... starting to annoy me that this car is standing in the driveway gathering dust. ... if not running by the end of feb, I'm afraid I'll have to remove the head, and refit all the 8v stuff. 











_Modified by supey at 10:55 AM 1-24-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: Cooling (supey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *supey* »_Thinking of blocking up the housing that would have connected to the steel pipe running to the heaterhose, and let the connection from the oilcooler go to the heaterhose, and then the return from the heaterhose to the flanges on the AGU head. Then the pipe that would have connected to the flanges on the front of the 8v head, will be routed to the other pipe on the flanges of the AGU head but then somehow get a T/Y joint so that the radiator top hose joins this pipe. ???









Ok thats an ABA/older 037,etc water pump housing.
Block off the bottom thermostat bypass nipple.Connect the upper nipple to the flange coming from the side of the head.That will complete your coolant system loop.
For the distributor cap search ebay for "Fiat X cap".


----------



## supey (Dec 19, 2008)

*Re: Cooling (Wizard-of-OD)*

Kewl Wizz ... gonna give it another shot ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## atoson (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Cooling (supey)*

subs.


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## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
*INTERNAL WATER PUMP BLOCK:*
*6. How do I impliment a distributor for Digi-I on an AWP 1.8T block?*
Some users dont want to go through the hassle of building a Hybrid motor and would prefer to start with a new engine from a 2002+ VW Golf/Jetta 1.8T.The obvious advantage to doing this is the low mileage and the availability of parts.Unfortunately for some users,the AWP/AWW/etc engines require full SEM systems (034EFi,etc) in order to get them up and running.Allthough SEM is an excellent choice,it is not smog legal in some States.A way around this is by implimenting Digi-I or similar fuel injection systems.
ReflexTuning offers a kit that allows users who have access to a new style 1.8T engine to run a distributor in the place of stock Hall/Camshaft position sensor allowing them to use Digi-I.The end result is a rather slick looking set up and requires no additional parts by the user.(other than the engine ofcourse)


Looks like Reflex Tuning no longer offers the distributor for a 20V head. Has anyone else found another way?


_Modified by xr4tic at 2:18 PM 2-18-2009_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (xr4tic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *xr4tic* »_
Looks like Reflex Tuning no longer offers the distributor for a 20V head. Has anyone else found another way?

What are you trying to do John?


----------



## xr4tic (Dec 10, 2001)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
What are you trying to do John?

I have no idea yet, just researching options.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

The PL and AEB IM shafts are identical when i compared them, but i am gonna mod the 1.8L 8v one because i don't like the amount of meat left to catch the keyway especially spaced out to line up. 
how do i line up the hall sender window when replacing the 4 window with a one window, since the pickup is on the other side of the dizzy, in relation to the rotor?


----------



## notldubber (May 3, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

I'm a little confused as to what parts I would need Can someone lend a hand?
ABA block with 1.8t head: What intermediate shaft, pistons, rods, pulley's and crank do i need?
Thanks for smoothing things out for me


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (notldubber)*

Read the first page of this thread, please. It's all there.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Read the first page of this thread, please. It's all there.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
When people say they dont understand what is needed then they clearly have not read the first post.


----------



## notldubber (May 3, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
When people say they dont understand what is needed then they clearly have not read the first post.

I actually read the first post, I just found a couple things slightly confusing. I figured them out though.
Happy dubbin smart ass


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notldubber* »_
I actually read the first post, I just found a couple things slightly confusing. I figured them out though.
Happy dubbin smart ass

Not that I care but in future keep that kind of attitude to yourself as it will do you no good on this forum.
Be thankful that someone took the time to write this up and modify it over the past 5 years for people like yourself.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## almstVW (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Not that I care but in future keep that kind of attitude to yourself as it will do you no good on this forum.
Be thankful that someone took the time to write this up and modify it over the past 5 years for people like yourself.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

agreed.
although i am very dissapointed to learn about the discontinuation of the distributor by reflex tuning as i finally have all the 1.8t bits and picked up a '98 jetta for the electronics and serp setup... oh well, i have noting but time.


_Modified by almstVW at 9:28 AM 3-13-2009_


----------



## brucelee91 (May 27, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (almstVW)*

bump for refrence










_Modified by brucelee91 at 5:26 PM 3-13-2009_


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

As I understand, you van start with a PG (or a KR/PL) crankcase with rods of the AEB combined with the pistons of the AEB and this with the AEB crank as I understand?
The cilinderhead uses a 16v cam gear (KR engine) and the crank gear should be also one from the KR? Am I right so far?
The Intermediate shaft gear is as I understand the pulley that comes on top of the crank gear, right? That one comes from a PL engine (same as a KR), but this one needs a spacer in between?
The timing belt tensioner is the one from a 9A and as a belt i use the curvilinair II type with 151-153t (058 109 119 C)?
The inlet manifold is the one from an Audi TT Quattro with the open side on the driver side, comes out better for the Rally intercooler. For the exaust manifold i can use the original one from an atmosferical 20v engine to start with, fits easy because the base of the head is the same.
Then for the alternator i use the known frame for the 16v-g60 and the beld tensioner from the orignal G-charger arm and the tensioner has to find a mounting place in the frame of the alternator.
This is about i undestand from your thread and thats why i'm looking for a PG and a 1.8T EAB engine. I aleady have ElsaWin and the Bentley repair manual for those two engines for the torque of the bolts and nutts.
I do understand that some other problems like the breather from the carter (oilpan) has to be found, but the PG engine has an open place where the second G-charger mount is fitted, so i can use that place for it (like the PL and KR engine has their breather). or i have to use a KR/PL base for this project, the block is almost the same, so it shouldn't be such a big problem to use a 1.8 16v block as base for this project, right?
If i forgot some things i would like to know some more about it.
And Sorry if my English sounds bad, but i'm not used to write in english, i'm from Europe.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_As I understand, you van start with a PG (or a KR/PL) crankcase with rods of the AEB combined with the pistons of the AEB and this with the AEB crank as I understand?
The cilinderhead uses a 16v cam gear (KR engine) and the crank gear should be also one from the KR? Am I right so far?
The Intermediate shaft gear is as I understand the pulley that comes on top of the crank gear, right? That one comes from a PL engine (same as a KR), but this one needs a spacer in between?
The timing belt tensioner is the one from a 9A and as a belt i use the curvilinair II type with 151-153t (058 109 119 C)?

If you have access to a complete AEB motor then use that.No need to go with a PG G60 motor if you have an AEB motor kicking around.Everything you have said is correct but the belt needs to be specific to the tensioners.The range of belts is from 151T to 158T depending on the tension set up you decide to go with.

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
The inlet manifold is the one from an Audi TT Quattro with the open side on the driver side, comes out better for the Rally intercooler. For the exaust manifold i can use the original one from an atmosferical 20v engine to start with, fits easy because the base of the head is the same.

That is correct.You can use the BAM (Audi TT) intake manifold and AGN (Audi A3 NA exhaust manifold) and you wont have any issues.

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
Then for the alternator i use the known frame for the 16v-g60 and the beld tensioner from the orignal G-charger arm and the tensioner has to find a mounting place in the frame of the alternator.

You can either mount an ABA (or the alternator from atmospherical audi engine) UNDER the G60 bracket or you can make a bracket to mount it in the rear.

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
I do understand that some other problems like the breather from the carter (oilpan) has to be found, but the PG engine has an open place where the second G-charger mount is fitted, so i can use that place for it (like the PL and KR engine has their breather). or i have to use a KR/PL base for this project, the block is almost the same, so it shouldn't be such a big problem to use a 1.8 16v block as base for this project, right?

You will need to machine the rear G60 charge support bracket to go from PG crankcase footprint to 9A/PL/KR/AEB foot print.I have done a few for vortexers so if you want one just send me the email and I will help you as best as I can.
What blocks do you have access to? Do you have an AEB motor?


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

So what I know is already correct. I had no idea that i could use a complete AEB engine for this kind of hybrid, i thought that the crankcase didn't had place for the bracket for the G-charger.
I don't have the engine at the moment, I want to have the right information before i start with it. I do have a half 16V-G60 engine at the moment and the idea was to adjust some thing to make a 20V from it, but if a 1.8T engine already does the work then there is no need to rebuild the 16v-G60 engine.
But if an AEB block will work, does a ANB, APU or any other 1.8T engine does the job also? Or is there a difference between those engines?
I can't mount the alternator under the G-charger because of the 170° return on the G-charger to the Rallye intercooler, so it has to find it's place where the 16v-G60 has it.
So the only block i have access to is a KR (same as a PL), but if a 1.8T wil do the work, i better invest in a block like that then in the KR. At the moment I'm preparing a place to work on this project, I have time and there is no deadline to finish it. Everytime ther budget allows, I'm planning to make a step foreward.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_So what I know is already correct. I had no idea that i could use a complete AEB engine for this kind of hybrid, i thought that the crankcase didn't had place for the bracket for the G-charger.

It does.The AEB follows the old style external water pump block.You will find after removing the accessory bracket that the G60 bracket fits right up with no issues.

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
but if a 1.8T engine already does the work then there is no need to rebuild the 16v-G60 engine.

Not all 1.8T,just AEB and ADR

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
But if an AEB block will work, does a ANB, APU or any other 1.8T engine does the job also? Or is there a difference between those engines?

No,those are 06A based blocks.They will not work.

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
I can't mount the alternator under the G-charger because of the 170° return on the G-charger to the Rallye intercooler, so it has to find it's place where the 16v-G60 has it.

Then put the alternator in the rear.That is your only option.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Ok, I know a lot more now, only two engines can be used or I have to build up an engine out of two donor blocks. So I'm gonna look around to an 1.8t with external waterpump. During that time I keep looking around for sample pictures an more technical information.
Thanks for the fast reply, this is something I realy appreciate.







If I have onother question, you're the first one I will make contact with.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_Ok, I know a lot more now, only two engines can be used or I have to build up an engine out of two donor blocks. So I'm gonna look around to an 1.8t with external waterpump. During that time I keep looking around for sample pictures an more technical information.

If I have time this weekend I will build a 20V G60 mocked up for you.

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
Thanks for the fast reply, this is something I realy appreciate.







If I have onother question, you're the first one I will make contact with.









Anytime my friend.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
If I have time this weekend I will build a 20V G60 mocked up for you.
Anytime my friend.

So you want to build up a 20v-g60 to show how it goes? As far as my english makes me understand. That would be awesome to see, better then finding different pictures from all over the internet i guess. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*

I have found a picture from the block I had so far, but i never finished, I even didn't started to revise it. Before you have told me that a AEB block will run on a G60 setup, I had plans to use this crankcase and the internals of the AEB, but now I know that this a lot more work then finding such a 20v block.








I might still can use some parts I already found to build a 16v-G60, but I already sold a lot of them, the only thing still have is the 16v-G60 beld tensioner (triangle and the mount for the damper).


----------



## G60ING (Jun 27, 2000)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*

You can also use an ATW block as it is virtually identical to the AEb block except it has small intake ports on the head


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (G60ING)*

Thanks, that makes it 3 engines that are suitable for the hybrid block.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (almstVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *almstVW* »_although i am very dissapointed to learn about the discontinuation of the distributor by reflex tuning

Screw the reflex kit, my friend has the first one and Doug won't return his (or anyones) calls. He overnighted him his ECU for an update and it took almost a year to get back, was a different ECU and didn't have an update. for what you get its not worth it.
get an AEB or ATW block and run the dizzy in the block, or if you can't find one run a ABA block.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_
Screw the reflex kit, my friend has the first one and Doug won't return his (or anyones) calls. He overnighted him his ECU for an update and it took almost a year to get back, was a different ECU and didn't have an update. for what you get its not worth it.
get an AEB or ATW block and run the dizzy in the block, or if you can't find one run a ABA block.

FWIW either Doug has been extremely busy or going through a very rough time right now.I know he is/was pretty good @ what he did.


----------



## jake2020 (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Yes you can
should be direct and good to go.








One of my customers sent me this:








Very clean execution of the work done.
http://www.vwquebec.ca/forum/s...98877
Shawn I think you will like what he did with the header










thats my setup. 
ABA block, AEB head and a whipple 1200ax supercharger.I'M still using digi-1 and it runs pretty strong








For the exhaust i'm using a techtonics 4-1 headers for 16v weld on a 20v flange.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (jake2020)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jake2020* »_

thats my setup. 
ABA block, AEB head and a whipple 1200ax supercharger.I'M still using digi-1 and it runs pretty strong








For the exhaust i'm using a techtonics 4-1 headers for 16v weld on a 20v flange.

Is it difficult to make the 20V run on Digifant 1? I guess not, if I compare this kind of engine with a 16v-G60. Just a matter of using the same sensors on a modified mount or another place?
Anybody some more pictures from the looks from such an engine with the alternator on the same place as the 16v-g60 has? Maybe some pictures from building the engine step by step? Just to see where everything goes, like sensors ect ect ect. That's the way i build my 16v-g60 engine, just by comparing the engine with sample pictures.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
Is it difficult to make the 20V run on Digifant 1?

I would only use Digi-I on an 8V G60.I know some people will disagree but this is 2009.You can get a proper engine management system for peanuts if you searched hard enough.
Is there any products people in here would love to see developed?


----------



## almstVW (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Is there any products people in here would love to see developed?









a plate to bolt my ABA distributor guts to my AWM 20V head.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (almstVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *almstVW* »_
a plate to bolt my ABA distributor guts to my AWM 20V head.

What about the Reflex tuning kit?He stopped making those?
I dont want to step on anyones toes.


----------



## almstVW (Aug 24, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
What about the Reflex tuning kit?He stopped making those?
I dont want to step on anyones toes.

yes they were "patent pending" but never patent approved...


----------



## chromenuts (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

I was trying to go through this thread...as I have occasionally over the last 2 years or so...and determine whether or not a 20v hybrid is in the cards for me. I apologize if this info has been gone over, 5 years of posts is a bit too much to digest completely. 
I spent a bit of money having all the machine work done on an early ABA bottom end so that I can install a set of 83.5mm 9:1 Wiseco forged pistons along with a set of Scat rods. The intention was always some sort of forced induction...and I purchased all new bearings, ARP hardware etc. accordingly. The 8 valve head was completely redone and was set up with a forced induction 268/260 cam and dual heavy duty valve springs, and I was in the process of port matching it to the gasket. 
Now my situation has changed. I need to shake a car loose for my son, and have offered him the MK3 that this engine was supposed to go back into. The car still needs a fresh engine, so I am putting back together a good '98 ABA block with new rings, bearings and etc. for him. I will have to give up the rebuilt 8 valve head for now so I can complete his engine.
In the back of my mind I always thought I was selling myself short with the 8 valve head given what I had put into the bottom end. The thing is, at first the power goals were moderate as I was only going to run a modified Nuespeed charger with an intercooler, small pulley and the C2 motorsports 440cc software. That will all stay with the MK3 most likely de-tuned for safety. 
Now all bets are off and since the charger and C2 software won't be of any use where the built engine is most likely going, which is into a MK1 GTi that has been gutted, I can only see stand alone and a big turbo in its future since there are no emissions requirements on the '84.
All this rambling leads to this question. Have I screwed myself on the option of the 20v head because I already invested in the Wiseco pistons? or could they be used or machined to allow the use of a 20v head? 
The Wisecos appear to have an even deeper dish in the top of the piston than the stock ABA pistons. Stock piston dish measures approx. 5.66 mm. The Wisecos measured approx 9.33mm at the high point (it has raised areas that are positioned at both ends of the combustion chamber in the head) it looses a little over 1mm at the low points which face the front and rear of the engine but that could only allow for easier clearance of valves coming in at an angle. The high points do not look like they could enter the chamber in the head. I am assuming next to 0 clearance at the deck height based on info from my machinist as I haven't test fitted them yet. I have a four layer steel Cometic head gasket to work with that is also going to add some space and reduce the compression a little. Can anyone give me a figure on how far the valves in a 20v head reach into the chamber below the deck height? or an answer as to whether or not its possible to use these pistons with a 20v head?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *almstVW* »_
yes they were "patent pending" but never patent approved...

I just spoke with Doug,
he said that he is working on a complete plug and play set up for the MKIII.
If you want the ABA adapter for the 20V head he still has a couple of those in stock.
Give him a call:
603.557.0250

_Quote, originally posted by *chromenuts* »_
All this rambling leads to this question. Have I screwed myself on the option of the 20v head because I already invested in the Wiseco pistons? or could they be used or machined to allow the use of a 20v head

Pretty much
Put them up as a feeler in the classifieds and see if anyone bites.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Just ordered the rear alternator bracket in Germany. With this thing I've got almost everything to get started with this hybrid engine, just need to find a good base for this project.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_Just ordered the rear alternator bracket in Germany. With this thing I've got almost everything to get started with this hybrid engine, just need to find a good base for this project.

Let us know how it goes!


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Let us know how it goes!









I will.
This is type of alternator bracket I ordered, This one looks way better then the ones you see on most of the 16v-g60 engines.
















This one has a bracket on the cilinder head, but I hope I don't have to modificate it to much.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I would only use Digi-I on an 8V G60.I know some people will disagree but this is 2009.You can get a proper engine management system for peanuts if you searched hard enough.
Is there any products people in here would love to see developed?










What about the motronic management that comes with this engine? Can this be used for this hybrid engine? If not, there is a chance that i'm going for a KMS (bit similar to DTA) managment, the tuning company that developed this thing ain't that far away in here.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
What about the motronic management that comes with this engine? Can this be used for this hybrid engine? If not, there is a chance that i'm going for a KMS (bit similar to DTA) managment, the tuning company that developed this thing ain't that far away in here.

I know KMS well.It is a very nice system but I would not waste it on building a Hybrid G60...
Base system cost upwards of $1500USD!


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I know KMS well.It is a very nice system but I would not waste it on building a Hybrid G60...
Base system cost upwards of $1500USD!









And what do you think about the management that comes with the 1.8T engine? I guess it will work fine on it, it's the same engine, just supercharged instead of turobcharged, basics stay the same or not?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
And what do you think about the management that comes with the 1.8T engine? I guess it will work fine on it, it's the same engine, just supercharged instead of turobcharged, basics stay the same or not?

Can be made to work but at that point you are basically playing a band aid game.
You are better off going with a readily proven system.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Can be made to work but at that point you are basically playing a band aid game.
You are better off going with a readily proven system.

In that case the best options are DTA and KMS for now, or do you have some other sugestions that might be worth thinking about?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
In that case the best options are DTA and KMS for now, or do you have some other sugestions that might be worth thinking about?

What country are you in?


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
What country are you in?

Belgium, Company of KMS is just about 45miles away, so not that far.
I saw you posted a while ago the same pictures in the 16v-g60 topic like i posted above in this page. The alternator that is shown on them is a G60 alternator, but when ik hold the G60 alternator against the bracket i notice that it won't fit (see picture).








I wonder how RP motorsport did it and how I have to solve it. Do you have to modify the alternator his mounts or is there a difference in models?


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I would only use Digi-I on an 8V G60.I know some people will disagree but this is 2009.You can get a proper engine management system for peanuts if you searched hard enough.
Is there any products people in here would love to see developed?










In the Netherlands most tuners don't accept those creations anymore.
20VT on Digi 1 = no go. Will not work properly.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_The alternator that is shown on them is a G60 alternator, but when ik hold the G60 alternator against the bracket i notice that it won't fit (see picture).

You are trying to mount the Alternator where the AC compressor once was?

_Quote, originally posted by *GTI1-G60* »_
In the Netherlands most tuners don't accept those creations anymore.
20VT on Digi 1 = no go. Will not work properly.


The Netherlands = country I must visit. Almost every single customer I know from out there is putting down almost double what 99% of the users on vortex are putting down.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
You are trying to mount the Alternator where the AC compressor once was?
The Netherlands = country I must visit. Almost every single customer I know from out there is putting down almost double what 99% of the users on vortex are putting down.

No, the alternator comes on the same place as with a 16v-g60, behind the head of the engine, like on the pictures above.The problem is that the mount on the alternator doesn't fit with the bracket, I think I have to cut of a part of the alternator to make sure it fits well.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*

Try flipping it around.


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
The Netherlands = country I must visit. Almost every single customer I know from out there is putting down almost double what 99% of the users on vortex are putting down.

Come, when possible I show you around.
You won't be disappointed 
Bring a big Rotrex with you, test it on my engine for free. Dyno/petrol my cost. 
Lets see if a Rotrex can get my over the 260whp


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (GTI1-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI1-G60* »_
Come, when possible I show you around.
You won't be disappointed 
Bring a big Rotrex with you, test it on my engine for free. Dyno/petrol my cost. 
Lets see if a Rotrex can get my over the 260whp










Man... How bout a GT2871RS and no headaches finding alternator brackets...LOL. I love the Netherlands, many awesome dubs there. Issam you should definitely take the trip.


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (hypothetical)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hypothetical* »_
Man... How bout a GT2871RS and no headaches finding alternator brackets...LOL. I love the Netherlands, many awesome dubs there. Issam you should definitely take the trip.

A bit off topic sorry for that.
With the use of a G60 chager in a A1 there is no room for a big radiator.
So I moved the engine backwards and lowert it monted on A2 engine mounts.
Result there is no room for a turbo.
A big Rotrex equal to a G60 wiht 62-60mm wheel would be a upgrade?
(engine rpm =8200)


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

If it's good, I should have an AEB engine this weekend, it comes with the turbo, injection and the wiring harnes from the engine on it. I can eather sell the turbo or maybe keep it just in case I would like to go turbocharged in the future...


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_If it's good, I should have an AEB engine this weekend, it comes with the turbo, injection and the wiring harnes from the engine on it. I can eather sell the turbo or maybe keep it just in case I would like to go turbocharged in the future...

Gerry says Hi


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Gerry says Hi
















Hahaha, you silly guys.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: (Dennis-G60)*

I've got some new toys since yesterday.
























All thanks to Gerry.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Dennis-G60)*

We love Gerry


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_We love Gerry









Well, love is a big word, but yes, he's the one who you have to talk to if you need something special, he has lots of contacts and know how to deal with them. Here in Belgium it ain't easy to find special parts like these and if you find them, you'll pay the highest price.
So monday i've got myself a whole ADR engine, everything on and around it.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
So monday i've got myself a whole ADR engine, everything on and around it.









Perfect!


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

I can't get the tensioner anywhere close to fitting on an AEB block with a dizzy/cam gear on the intermediate shaft. are there different 16v tensioners or a longer belt, because i counted 153 teeth and its not even close.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

i looked for awhile, a 98 prelude 2.2L belt should work. is this the correct profile? is this the H22A4 motor i need the belt from?


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

Since a couple of hours i've got the ADR engine in here, i helped taking that thing out of my friends car and damnnnn that thing is heavy .
















The engine is complete from inlet manifold (plastic junk), injectors, injector rail, oil housing and mount, hybrid oilpan, all sensors on the eninge including the lambda, also the complete wiring harnes with the ECU connector is still there no connectors where cut off, also clutch and flywheel are still on it.
Now i have to get that thing on the engine mount to work on it.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_is this the H22A4 motor i need the belt from?

Get me the part #.

_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
The engine is complete from inlet manifold (plastic junk), injectors, injector rail, oil housing and mount, hybrid oilpan, all sensors on the eninge including the lambda, also the complete wiring harnes with the ECU connector is still there no connectors where cut off, also clutch and flywheel are still on it.

Dennis http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You CAN NOT use the following:
* Oil pump pick up
* Oil Pan
* Exhaust manifold
* intake manifold (obviously)
* ECU wiring
* Accessory bracket
* Oil Filter housing (this will hit the gearbox bracket on transverse)


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Dennis http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
You CAN NOT use the following:
* Oil pump pick up
* Oil Pan
* Exhaust manifold
* intake manifold (obviously)
* ECU wiring
* Accessory bracket
* Oil Filter housing (this will hit the gearbox bracket on transverse)

Thanks Sam, I'm aware of that, those are the things that being thrown of the first. I still have the 16v oil brachet from my old KR engine, at least that's a start he.


----------



## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (smokinjoe644)*

sdezego posted that
Belt Lengths = (#Teeth x 8mm)
- 155T = 1240
silly_sohc/California Jay posted:
The timing belt was a 98-99 Prelude Vtec Conitech # tb226. Or Dayco belt # 95226. they all have the same tooth profile as the VW/Audi.
smokinjoe644 posted:
PG or 9A block with 20V head AND Distributor (AWW IM) = 155T
"also AEB with dizzy would be the same size block"
98vr6t posted:
I found out from TwinScrew20v that the 98 Prelude 2.3L belt is the proper one for a PG with Inblock Dizzy.. 
a quick search reveals GATES 1998 Honda Prelude Type SH 4 Cyl 2.2L-- Timing Belt, Pitch 0.315 x 48.819 x 0.945, PART#: GATT226 MFR#: T226 
also 48.819" = 1240mm
there are 3 contitech belts listed, not sure which one is right, W0133-1614945, W0133-1617873, W0133-1618914.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (all-starr-me)*


_Quote, originally posted by *all-starr-me* »_sdezego posted that
Belt Lengths = (#Teeth x 8mm)
- 155T = 1240.

This is the belt I have used.
send Shawn a PM.He must have one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*

Now I've got a 20v engine as base to build this 20v hybrid I was wondering what kind of parts I'm gonna need for it? This topic is written as if you start from a PG/KR and ABA, but so far I couldn't find anything back in this topic when you start from a ATW/AEB or an ADR. I gues i can use the distribution that comes with the engine, for crank pulley I can use the 20v ADR one? Or do I use the ones that comes with a G60? I'm not gonna use an airco compressor. 
It's a matter of time before the pistons arrive, all thanks to Issam Abed, great and friendly service. He's a great guy!
The flywheel is removed today to mount the engine on the engine mount so i could work on it, but I guess this flywheel is useless? I can make the engine turn around by hand without any problems, so that's good. No oil to find around and on the engine, so it's in good condition, didn't did even 71.500miles.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_Now I've got a 20v engine as base to build this 20v hybrid I was wondering what kind of parts I'm gonna need for it? This topic is written as if you start from a PG/KR and ABA, but so far I couldn't find anything back in this topic when you start from a ATW/AEB or an ADR. I gues i can use the distribution that comes with the engine, for crank pulley I can use the 20v ADR one? Or do I use the ones that comes with a G60?

Dennis,
in your case you need the following from the PG motor:
* Oil pump pick up tube (will work back on ADR oil pump)
* Oil Pan
* G60 supercharger bracket
* Audi TT 225bhp intake manifold
* AGN exhaust manifold - your country has alot of these
* PG distributor
* Fiat/Peugeot distributor cap
* Another ADR camshaft gear or similar.
If you want I can build all the parts for you here and send them in the box to Gerry.


----------



## titeGTi (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*

i bought his last two...and i decided not to do the build if u need one.

_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
This is the belt I have used.
send Shawn a PM.He must have one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Dennis,
in your case you need the following from the PG motor:
* Oil pump pick up tube (will work back on ADR oil pump)
* Oil Pan
* G60 supercharger bracket
* Audi TT 225bhp intake manifold
* AGN exhaust manifold - your country has alot of these
* PG distributor
* Fiat/Peugeot distributor cap
* Another ADR camshaft gear or similar.
If you want I can build all the parts for you here and send them in the box to Gerry.









The oil pick up tube, oil pan and ADR camshaft gear (same as a KR 027 109 111 H) I already have in that case, also the G-charger bracket, twice actualy.
The AGN exhaust manifold i can find by myself, comes from an A3, Seat Toledo and Golf MK4, very common cars in here.
The Audi TT, or the BAM intake, maybe I can find also by myself through a friend of me that works at a company that part out cars for pats, he's the one that arranged the ADR engine for me.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Dennis-G60)*

There should be no need for a special timing belt on your setup unless I am missing something.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_There should be no need for a special timing belt on your setup unless I am missing something.

He wants to run Digi-I


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
He wants to run Digi-I

And who does the programming of that Digi 1?"


----------



## nimbusGL (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (GTI1-G60)*

Okay. I am looking for some help guys.
This is what I'm wanting to do. I have a 1998 passat with an AEB. So i was wanting to throw a lysholm on and take the turbo off.
so far fabrication wont be a problem getting it on. Howie that does C2 fabrication to help me out. And I was thinking of using an Audi A8 exhaust manifold or having one custom made. I was also going to go to stand alone using megasquirt. I'm not that great with the engine, so i was wanting some help or hints so that I'm not going around in circles.
I will be starting this project after H20. Thanks in advance guys.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (GTI1-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI1-G60* »_
And who does the programming of that Digi 1?"


I have no idea yet, but maybe I could contact Frankie from FHtechnic to start with, he wrote the chip for my G60 and i'm pleased with it, so if he's capable to do Motoronic then he's the one who can do the job, or else I have to go for something else. It's just an idea, nothing is for sure yet.


----------



## hypothetical (Oct 20, 2006)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (nimbusGL)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nimbusGL* »_Okay. I am looking for some help guys.
This is what I'm wanting to do. I have a 1998 passat with an AEB. So i was wanting to throw a lysholm on and *take the turbo off.*


Why?


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
He wants to run Digi-I








oh...
I won't try to talk him out of it even though I have been down that long road and in the end truly satisfied with megasquirt.
Gonna need the prelude belt mentioned above and readily avail from the local Auto Part store, however, the belt is a Curv III and not a Curv II belt pitch like VW uses. People use them, but it is not ideal.
I only deal with the Long Block (i.e. ABA) 20v with non Dist now.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (GTI1-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI1-G60* »_
And who does the programming of that Digi 1?"


Sam @ SNS Tuning can do it for you.


----------



## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif










_Modified by Mk2 SAiNT at 1:18 AM 6-26-2009_


----------



## GTI1-G60 (Oct 7, 2002)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Sam @ SNS Tuning can do it for you.

How can you program a "special" engine. 3000miles away?
Can never be 100%. 
DIGI 1 on a 20VT engine = To much failure but not caused by programming.
Seen enough of them overhere, failing.
Bad tuners, not able to program, but only selling copies of others.
(some even advise G60 programs!)
When do you visit us, don't forget to bring a large C30 withyou








I pretting much done with the Gchager. 


_Modified by GTI1-G60 at 8:25 AM 6-26-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (GTI1-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTI1-G60* »_
How can you program a "special" engine. 3000miles away?
Can never be 100%. 

True,
standalone would be the best. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V G60/20V PG - How to do it... (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
True,
standalone would be the best. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

And that's where i'm going for, that's for sure now.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Tim/ SilverSLC
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...42143
Has volunteered as a moderator to help clean up the threads http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

The pistons I ordered through Issam Abed arrived last tuesday early in the morning (like 9am, what is early for me if i'm working in a late shift). I'm pleased about the postal service, I could follow the package from Canada Post until delivery. Package arrived in one piece, no damage or anything. I'm happy that i'm one step closer to building up the 20v-g60. The picture shows the piston with the rod i'm gonna use, the rods where not delivered through Issam, but he also delivers the same set of rods if necassary, of course they cost less then what you pay in Europe (but that with everything).
















Yes, I read VW performance, even when the magazine is 4 years old.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*

wait until you see the 20V-G60 thread revamped


----------



## marianoaldogaston (Jul 13, 2009)

hi, i am making the swap, my head is a 20v awt, and i am putting it in a mexican block adc model, it is like the aba. 
i cant get the 158t belt can anyone tellme in what cars it come.
i saw the supertech pistons, a part of this producion is made in argentina by "iasa pistons s.a." and then put the supertech i made mine in 83mm diameter. if anyone need it i have the plans numbers so you can order the same. the pin of mine was made in 20mm.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4540072
Just wrote another thread for the PG folk


----------



## georgeolico (May 22, 2006)

Up


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (georgeolico)*

what is the ballpark for horsepower out of a 20v aba N/A


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (luv2exl8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *luv2exl8t* »_what is the ballpark for horsepower out of a 20v aba N/A

Depends on what modifications are done to the engine.


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

_Modified by luv2exl8t at 10:44 AM 9-3-2009_


----------



## TehLonz (Oct 5, 2006)

*FV-QR*

lol wut?


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (TehLonz)*

nvmd ill figure it out


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (luv2exl8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *luv2exl8t* »_nvmd ill figure it out 

What was the question?


----------



## 1stCorrado2ndvw (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Please forgive my ignorence!! I recently bought a 1990 Corrado and with it came a 20v head and turbo from an 2001 Jetta. Does this combonation work on my Corrado?? I am not even sure what badge my block has. I do know that it is an 8v head right now. Thanks!!


----------



## 1stCorrado2ndvw (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

I will Thank you!


----------



## 1stCorrado2ndvw (Sep 10, 2009)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*








http://s971.photobucket.com/albums/ae199/1975-Cuda-/







Here are the pics that I have taken, I hope that they are helpful!! This is the first VW that I have owned since 1996. So I'm not real familiar with the car yet. I've changed the timing belt and TB tensioner pulley, cause it needed it and for me to get more acqainted with the vehicle. This car is already in nice shape, the guy that I bought it off of has put a lot of money into it except under the hood. I would like to get away from the original G-Lader and put a Turbo charger on it. And it would be nice if the parts given to me with the car can make it possible. Thank you for your assistance.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (1stCorrado2ndvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1stCorrado2ndvw* »_







http://s971.photobucket.com/albums/ae199/1975-Cuda-/







Here are the pics that I have taken, I hope that they are helpful!! This is the first VW that I have owned since 1996. So I'm not real familiar with the car yet. I've changed the timing belt and TB tensioner pulley, cause it needed it and for me to get more acqainted with the vehicle. This car is already in nice shape, the guy that I bought it off of has put a lot of money into it except under the hood. I would like to get away from the original G-Lader and put a Turbo charger on it. And it would be nice if the parts given to me with the car can make it possible. Thank you for your assistance.


The link does not work
email me the images.


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

how many people have used the stock pistons from an aba with the valve cut in them. Whats your power limits


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (luv2exl8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *luv2exl8t* »_how many people have used the stock pistons from an aba with the valve cut in them. Whats your power limits 

A machine shop will charge you anywhere from 50-75/piston to do a valve cut out on an ABA piston.
Might as well just buy forged pistons @ that point.


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

My buddie is actully a machinest but what I want to know what are the limits with sto k obd1 pistons and rods


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (luv2exl8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *luv2exl8t* »_My buddie is actully a machinest but what I want to know what are the limits with sto k obd1 pistons and rods

Every set up is different.
No one here is going to be able to answer that question.


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Every set up is different.
No one here is going to be able to answer that question.

ok then show me some dyno sheets i have only seen 1 and im not about to drop tons of money into a motor if its not going to give me the power i want


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (luv2exl8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *luv2exl8t* »_im not about to drop tons of money into a motor if its not going to give me the power i want 

Then dont.
This thread is for people to share information not to be spoon fed.If you want a dose of reality then doing a valve cut out on a stock ABA piston is dumb....especially when forged pistons made to ANY BORE /CR/STROKE is available at your fingertips with a cost of ~$600USD.
If you are trying to do this on the cheap then stay with the engine you currently have.
Thanks.


----------



## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Then dont.
This thread is for people to share information not to be spoon fed.If you want a dose of reality then doing a valve cut out on a stock ABA piston is dumb....especially when forged pistons made to ANY BORE /CR/STROKE is available at your fingertips with a cost of ~$600USD.
If you are trying to do this on the cheap then stay with the engine you currently have.
Thanks.

i never said i was trying to do this on the cheap i just want numbers wich i have not seen threw this whole thread i want numbers on boosted 2020 not na


----------



## mk3vrdub6 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (luv2exl8t)*

where can i find the chip for the ABA 20v


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (mk3vrdub6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3vrdub6* »_where can i find the chip for the ABA 20v

Using what injectors?


----------



## mk3vrdub6 (Nov 4, 2008)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

1.8t fuel rail and injectors. (stock)


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (mk3vrdub6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3vrdub6* »_1.8t fuel rail and injectors. (stock)

Which 1.8T...
387cc?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Dennis-G60)*

To everyone that has been emailing me and phoning me about this thread. PLEASE take the time to read it.I have no problems helping any of you out but it is time consuming for me to be repeating myself when I know the information is here in this thread.
I will be updating the 1st post shortly with images of the 20V G60 parts people wanted and from there hopefully everyone can enjoy there build.
Again,PLEASE read the thread,if you have any questions ASK THEM in this thread.


----------



## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*FV-QR*

Damn i which they had a search button for this thread!!!
Can i use ABA piston?what will the C/R ratio be with the stock head gasket.Do you have to modify the piston if i use a head spacer?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daskoupe* »_Damn i which they had a search button for this thread!!!
Can i use ABA piston?what will the C/R ratio be with the stock head gasket.Do you have to modify the piston if i use a head spacer?

I am going to say not to use the ABA piston


----------



## bwidow (Jul 6, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

i know im little off topic , does anybody know if the 1.8t cam sensor wheel (4 window) will trigger the coil pack on a mk4 2.0l? Anybody with this info will be greatly appreciated..thank you


----------



## titeGTi (Jun 13, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daskoupe* »_Damn i which they had a search button for this thread!!!
Can i use ABA piston?what will the C/R ratio be with the stock head gasket.Do you have to modify the piston if i use a head spacer?

do some searching on the interweb and then do some math


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (bwidow)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bwidow* »_i know im little off topic , does anybody know if the 1.8t cam sensor wheel (4 window) will trigger the coil pack on a mk4 2.0l? Anybody with this info will be greatly appreciated..thank you

The cam wheel on the MKIV 2.0 is a 4 window so yes you can use the 2.0 coil pack once you are using the 1.8T 4-WINDOW sensor is a trigger.
I assume you are trying to run a 20V motor off a 2.0 8V AEG/AZG harness and ECU?









Thanks to TMTtuned for this image
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=3


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

A question about taking an engine into pieces before the build up can start. How do I store engine parts that has a risk to become rusty? And what kind of parts of an ADR engine can become rusty? I think about to store them oiled into a sealed bag so there can't come dust or other kind of dirt into it and the oil as a protective layer against rust. I don't care about the standard pistons and Rods, but it's about the crankshaft and the oil pump. First I'm about to look if the oil pump is still OK, i guess the tolerances are the same as a KR oil pump?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_A question about taking an engine into pieces before the build up can start. How do I store engine parts that has a risk to become rusty? And what kind of parts of an ADR engine can become rusty? I think about to store them oiled into a sealed bag so there can't come dust or other kind of dirt into it and the oil as a protective layer against rust. I don't care about the standard pistons and Rods, but it's about the crankshaft and the oil pump. First I'm about to look if the oil pump is still OK, i guess the tolerances are the same as a KR oil pump?

Dennis,
spray the parts down with either Transmission fluid mixed with Diesel or WD-40 and keep it in a non damp place.I Find storing parts in cardboard boxes is not bad.
On the ADR the cams,crank,block and rods can become rusty but you dont have a problem with the rods.
Pistons will not become rusty but the rings will.Keep the rings from the Supertech pistons in the original packaging and it should be fine.
KR pump should be ok given the mileage it had.


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Dennis,
spray the parts down with either Transmission fluid mixed with Diesel or WD-40 and keep it in a non damp place.I Find storing parts in cardboard boxes is not bad.
On the ADR the cams,crank,block and rods can become rusty but you dont have a problem with the rods.
Pistons will not become rusty but the rings will.Keep the rings from the Supertech pistons in the original packaging and it should be fine.
KR pump should be ok given the mileage it had.

So WD-40 will do the job or does it has to be mixed with transmission fluid? I was thinking already to put them in boxes and each part into a plastic bag just in case.
I think i'll keep the cams in the cilinderhead so they keep their layer of oil as protection, I don't think there should be parts replaced in the head for now, it had only 115.000km's (mostly highway). Maybe i'll keep the engine in one piece until i can bring it away to drill it to 82,5mm? In that way there's no risk for rust on the described parts?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Dennis-G60)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dennis-G60* »_
So WD-40 will do the job or does it has to be mixed with transmission fluid? I was thinking already to put them in boxes and each part into a plastic bag just in case.
I think i'll keep the cams in the cilinderhead so they keep their layer of oil as protection, I don't think there should be parts replaced in the head for now, it had only 115.000km's (mostly highway). Maybe i'll keep the engine in one piece until i can bring it away to drill it to 82,5mm? In that way there's no risk for rust on the described parts?

Any sort of lubricant will be fine whether it is transmission fluid mixed with diesel or WD-40.
You shouldnt get any rust if everything is oiled. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I am going to say not to use the ABA piston










really issam I'm pulling my 8v head off,i have a 20v head,I want to do the swap.But i dont have the money for piston or rods.
What will my Cr be with stacked gaskets and stock pistons


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daskoupe* »_
really issam I'm pulling my 8v head off,i have a 20v head,I want to do the swap.But i dont have the money for piston or rods.
What will my Cr be with stacked gaskets and stock pistons

What bottom end are you using? The ABA?


----------



## Daskoupe (Oct 9, 2006)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
What bottom end are you using? The ABA?


yes


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Daskoupe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Daskoupe* »_
yes

I really would suggest getting pistons...
If you dont have the money for them then hold out until you do.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

Hello, been reading topics about hybrid swaps (ABA block/AEB head), but can't find almost nothing about AAD block. Till now i have found this:
Block height=236mm, Bore=82.5mm, Stroke=92.8mm
Does it looks similar to ABA? imho, could be close match.
This comes from ETKA:

_Quote »_crankshaft
053105101H - abk/ace/3a/aad/6a/abf/9a/agg/aep
053105101K - aba/2e/ady
026105101R - aeb
piston
037107065 M/N - aba
048107065 R - aad/abk/ady
048107065 E/R - 2e
048107065 S - agg
048107065 H - aep
048107065 T - abf
053107065 F - 9a
intermediate shaft
053115017 - aba/2e/ady/3a/aad/abk/agg/aep (z=17)
053115017c - 9a
058115017c - abf (z=17)
058115017a - aeb
intermediate shaft pulley
049109111c - dz/3a/aad/abk/2e/ady/agg/aep
027109111g - 6a/ace/aeb/abf/9a
crankshaft toothed belt pulley
027105263b - 6a/ace/aeb/kr/9a/abf
049105263c - aba/2e/ady/abk/ady/aep/agg
crankshaft impulse rotor
050105189b - aeb/ady/aep
speed sender ring
048105189b - abf/ady/aep/agg
connecting rods (1 set)
027198401b - ace/6a/3a/9a/aeb
037198401C - aba/abf/2e/ady/abk/aad/agg/aep
oil pump
027115105B - aba/2e/ady/aep/agg
026115105A - 3a/aad/abk
058115105C - aeb
051115105A - abf/9a
ignition distributor
037905205T / 037905237BX - aba
048905237X - aad
037905237AX - 2e
037905237BX - ady
037905237DX - agg/ady/aep
051905237X - 9a
cylinder block with pistons
037103101 K/T - aba
037103101 S - aad/2e
037100103 HX - abf
037100103 AA - agg
037100103 AB - aep
037103101 R - ady
053103101 E - 9A
oil sump / baffle
051103601 / 037115220b - aba/2e/ady/9a
048103601 / 053103623 - dz/3a/6a/aad/abk/ace
048103599C - abf
oil spray jet
053103157a - aba/aeb/2e/abf/3a/6a/aad/abk/ace/ady/9a
cylinder head gasket
048103383d - 6a/ace/abf/agg/ady/aep (metal)
037103383n - aba (metal)
048103383b - abk/3a/aad/2e/9a
058103383m - aeb (metal)

tensioning roller (timing belt)
026109243L - 2e/ady/agg/aep
058109243d - aeb
048109243a - aad/abk
051109243 - 9a
belt tensioning damper (timing belt)
058109479b - aeb
048109479a - aad/abk
051109243 - 6a/ace/abf
051109243a - ace



_Modified by _Val at 12:57 PM 11/25/2009_


_Modified by _Val at 4:24 AM 3-20-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (_Val)*

Hi Val
its Issam from Motorgeek.
If I recall the AAD was a tall block engine BUT was the same as ABA,not ABK/ABF
It did not have the ribbing around the base of the block or the mounting points for the AEB/ABK engine mount brackets.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Hello.
I know about engine mounts. I'm intentionally searching for block, that can sit on b2/b3 subframe w/o engine mount modification. Currently i've found that it's possible with 3A and AAD. But 3A is just 220mm in height. Both of them have ~47cm between subframe engine mount holes when using stock engine mounts.
I think i have posted on wrong forum 'cause i have no connection with G60.


_Modified by _Val at 3:09 PM 11/25/2009_


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re:*

Thanks to Issam I've got this great intake for my 20V project. APR transverse intake with electronic VR6 throttle body.
















Just bolt-on on a 20V head.
























Throttle body is very similar to a 20V one. On the left is one from a 20V and the right one is a VR6 throttle body. They share the same kind of build and connector.
















As you can see, P&P connector.



















_Modified by Dennis-G60 at 3:26 PM 11-25-2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Hello.
I know about engine mounts. I'm intentionally searching for block, that can sit on b2/b3 subframe w/o engine mount modification. Currently i've found that it's possible with 3A and AAD. But 3A is just 220mm in height. Both of them have ~47cm between subframe engine mount holes when using stock engine mounts.
I think i have posted on wrong forum 'cause i have no connection with G60.

Dont worry about the forum.This is where everyone knows the thread to be.It has a wealth of information so you are good val.
The AAD engine WILL bolt to the old B2/B3 FWD mounts if this is what you mean:








Dennis...we have hope for G60!?Looks like it might fit my friend!


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Dennis...we have hope for G60!?Looks like it might fit my friend!

















I'm more thinking about your offer about the Rotrex, the more I gather information about this thing, the more I like the idea having this supercharger. The APR intake is a bit to big in the bottom, you have to cut away some of the parts down there, it's just a matter of mm's if I saw it correct.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_The AAD engine WILL bolt to the old B2/B3 FWD mounts if this is what you mean: http://80tq.com/~wiz/Audi%2080...8.JPG 

Yes, exactly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif The same for b2/b3 quattro 4 cyl.
Right now i'm thinking of:
AEB complete head with intake/exhaust manifolds
AAD block with pistons etc.
AAD engine mounts - both side and front
AAD powersteering pump
AAD alternator

_Quote »_In other words whatever gear you use on the camshaft,use on the IM shaft and make sure the crank gear has half the # of teeth. With a coil pack set up you only need to make sure you cam : crank ratio is 2:1. You wont be using a distributor so none of the IM shaft modification applies to you.

AAD IM shaft with AEB toothed belt pulley (Curvilinear II)
AAD crankshaft with AEB crankshaft toothed belt pulley (Curvilinear II)
AEB oil filter housing (because it has oil cooler ontop)
AAD oil pump
AEB oil pan
block-off distributor hole
That way i get (from http://home.wideopenwest.com/~...1.htm)

_Quote »_The 2.0 CR is 8.8:1 (with 20V head)

Does AAD crank has the same impulse rotor like AEB? What else i need to modify that would allow to NOT use distributor?
If "new" engine works then, i'll take it apart and bore it a little bigger.










_Modified by _Val at 2:49 AM 11/26/2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_
Does AAD crank has the same impulse rotor like AEB? What else i need to modify that would allow to NOT use distributor?
If "new" engine works then, i'll take it apart and bore it a little bigger.









Why not use the AEB power steering/Alternator set up and I am not sure about the impulse wheel
what management you will use?


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Why not use the AEB power steering/Alternator set up
Don't know. I thought AAD setup can be esier bolted on because it's been there from factory. Also i've read from Motorgeek is that B5 PS pump has bigger pressure inside than B2/B3 pumps (100bar vs 75bar). Although everything is OK now with my B2 steering rack and B5 PS pump.

_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_What management you will use?
 B5 stock Motronic that i'm using right now.










_Modified by _Val at 3:34 AM 11/26/2009_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Don't know. I thought AAD setup can be esier bolted on because it's been there from factory. Also i've read from Motorgeek is that B5 PS pump has bigger pressure inside than B2/B3 pumps (100bar vs 75bar). Although everything is OK now with my B2 steering rack and B5 PS pump.

Same here...I ran an AEB P/S pump on my B3 rack with no issues.
Use the AEB set up,will make life easier.
Then

_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_
B5 stock Motronic that i'm using right now.








Ouch...do you have access to ME-7 over there?


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

I think i get your point. I'll have issues with belts if i want to use alternator from B3, because B5 is flat, the other is v-belt.

_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_Ouch...do you have access to ME-7 over there?

Is stock ECU that bad?








What is ME-7? Googled for it, but nothing: http://www.google.lv/search?q=me-7


----------



## azunderg (Apr 29, 2009)

is there any power to be gained by doing a 20v swap?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_
Is stock ECU that bad?









Stock ME-5 is more headaches than it is worth.Find a late B6 A4 harness and ECU and you will be thanking me later. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *azunderg* »_is there any power to be gained by doing a 20v swap?

Over what? The G60?


----------



## azunderg (Apr 29, 2009)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

yeah, putting a 20v head on the g60 motor.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

Is there any difference 16v block vs 8v block between oil return ports that goes to the head or both of them don't have these 3 ports?










_Modified by _Val at 1:35 AM 11/30/2009_


----------



## jk35 (Sep 1, 2008)

*Re: (TwinScrew20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TwinScrew20v* »_There is a valve releif cut into the 20v piston for the 3rd intake valve (the center one) This may be a factor with the 16v pistons. There are no other releifs cut in the 20v Pistons. The G60 Dizzy is the same as the 8v (ive put 8vs in G60s before...Just make sure the hall sender has the same amonut of windows as the G60 Dizzy...I cant remember if its the 1 or 4 right now Ive been playing with both lately) 16v cams sprocket or adjustable cam sprocket will work...But if you go adjustable use the 16v cam bolt washer (the 20v it too large) and the 20v cam bolt!!! Id suggest the cam sprocket. Mine seems to have a slightly higher end power band to the butt at 0 degree and feels alot better at about 4 degrees advanced on the cam.
The oil pumps in the 9A, PG and ABA all use 36mm gears...But the PG pump is EXPENSIVE and ABA is fairly cheap...But I read the same pressure and temps with the ABA as I did with a good PG (in my 8v). So Im runnin the ABA...9A has no provision to run the dizzy if I remember correctly...Its just centered on the plug in the block (its been some time but I think it was like that...Mebe Ill go dig that out again Hahaa) The 16IM shaft is pretty damn near the same as an 8v short of the pullye mounting. I played with both...And the 8v one allowed the better spacing for the correct SIZED sprocket. THIS it what makes the two spin at different rates. There is a woodruff key pressed into the 8v IM shaft...Pop it out (small flat head screw driver) and extend the groove to the outter edge of the IM shaft and the allow you to fit the 20V CAM sprocket (Cam and IM shaft need to be the same size...16v is the same but the spacing is goofy) And use a 16v cam spocket again for the cam itself.

Awesome thread, I am having problems with my newly built stroked AEB. The adjustable cam gear I used is suffering from a manufacturing defect and is 4/10ths MM out of round, AND my cam bolt and washer didn't fit it in the first place. 
The above quote mentions using a 16v washer and a 20v cam bolt. 
First, does anyone have part numbers for these? I'm having a bitch of a time finding these (I also need a new crank bolt, but can't seem to find those anywhere either!)
@nd, how do you use a different washer? my original 20v cam bolt has a washer on it, but it doesn't come off the bolt (or does it???)
I simply rigged up the bolt and washer in a drill press, spun it like it was a lathe, and took a grinder to the washer, turning it down enough it would fit into the Eurospec cam gear. -I really want a new bolt and washer that fits right 
Can anyone suggest any part numbers for a cam bolt and washer that are known to work with a Eurospec cam gear (this is considering I can get a replacement that is ROUND


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *azunderg* »_yeah, putting a 20v head on the g60 motor.

Ok thats a rather vague question.
But yes you will make more power from a 20V head than you would on a stock 8V G60 head. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Is there any difference 16v block vs 8v block between oil return ports that goes to the head or both of them don't have these 3 ports?

All the 16V and 8V motors that are external water pump do NOT have the 3 centre oil return channels in the block.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Issam, you need to stop the spoon feeding. eff sake


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_Issam, you need to stop the spoon feeding. eff sake









I know...
should I lock the thread?


----------



## Dennis-G60 (Feb 11, 2006)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
I know...
should I lock the thread?

I wouldn't lock the thread, if so, then you'll see other threads showing up with the same questions. Now people that has to add something useful can support the knowledge in this thread.
Just stop answering every question that has been asked more then once, let them do their research to.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Yea, that ^
I wouldn't lock the thread, but don't be afraid to direct people to at least read the first few pages of the thread or send them to do their research and some back with a valid question


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_I am not sure about the impulse wheel
Found solution. If there is no impulse wheel with sender just like ABA, or i will not find ABF block, then -> http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3516017 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Found solution. If there is no impulse wheel with sender just like ABA, or i will not find ABF block, then -> http://forums.fourtitude.com/zerothread?id=3516017 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
That is an expensive solution


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (jk35)*

I had to shave down my washer to fit my TT cam gear as well. I used a lathe, but your method works too. I haveen't matched up the 16v bolt/washer to see if it works, but I suspect this is a dealer only item.
The crank bolt is a dealer only item as well.
1stvwparts.com http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Call them up.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (sdezego)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sdezego* »_I had to shave down my washer to fit my TT cam gear as well. I used a lathe, but your method works too. I haveen't matched up the 16v bolt/washer to see if it works, but I suspect this is a dealer only item.
The crank bolt is a dealer only item as well.
1stvwparts.com http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Call them up.

or me


----------



## Mark-Paul Gosselaar (May 9, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*

Pls forgive my ignorance but i'm assuming that all the "PG" block info posted on page 1 can also be applied to the "PF" block ( '90 1.8L 8V digi II ) as well correct??


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Mark-Paul Gosselaar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mark-Paul Gosselaar* »_Pls forgive my ignorance but i'm assuming that all the "PG" block info posted on page 1 can also be applied to the "PF" block ( '90 1.8L 8V digi II ) as well correct?? 

Pretty much yes assuming you plan to just "add on" to the PF block.


----------



## vwlove2004 (Mar 12, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_ Quote, originally posted by John Doe » 
3.How do I put a 20V Head onto an ABA Block and still retain the distributor? 
The same procedure used for the PG block will be adapted to the ABA block.The ABA block has a deck height of 236mm so its going to need a longer belt and this is where the difference in belts come into play.
Quote, originally posted by ABA uses a longer 158T belt » 
4. TIMINT BELT & TENSIONER - 158T BELT: 
* OEM 9A 16V Timing belt Tensioner
* 52T IM Shaft gear used
All Belts should have a Curvilinear II profile
5. PISTONS - 82.5mm
1. Stock 9A 16V pistons with a relief cut for the #5 valve
2. Custom set from JE Pistons through rhussjr
6. CONNECTING RODS:
1. ABA Connecting Rods with ARP bolts
2. Forged 159mm Connecting rods from SCAT,Pauter,Corillo,Eagle,etc


So Im thinking about doing the swap over 16v i currently have a ob2 aba block with the restrictive 8v head. I am running FI on c2 tune but plan on going standalone. I have a few questions 1. Would i be able to keep my distributor set up and just get the 16v plugs and have clearance from the intake mani, or do i have to go the citrogen dizzy cap? 2. What would the compression be if i went with 82.5mm stock pistons with the valve grove for the #5 valve, i will most likely go wiseco since i live 40mins from mentor, ohio. I also plan on running forged rods the stroke is 92.8 right? and 3. the parts list above not including the list i did not include from the original post is all that i would need?
Thank you in advance guys!!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vwlove2004)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwlove2004* »_
1. Would i be able to keep my distributor set up and just get the 16v plugs and have clearance from the intake mani, or do i have to go the citrogen dizzy cap? 
2. What would the compression be if i went with 82.5mm stock pistons with the valve grove for the #5 valve, i will most likely go wiseco since i live 40mins from mentor, ohio. I also plan on running forged rods the stroke is 92.8 right? and 
3. the parts list above not including the list i did not include from the original post is all that i would need? 

1. You are going to have to slice the head a little if you want to keep your ABA dizzy cap.
2. If you live close to Wiseco then get them to make the pistons you need otherwise email me as I have an account with them. Stroke is 92.8mm on the OBD-I ABA crank.
3. Pretty much yes
any other questions feel free to ask.


----------



## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_







2.0 has Compression height of 29.6mm.Good to know for all those stroker boys wanting to get an OEM forged piston that will be relatively low CR when placed in the 220mm block assuming they are high NA.

i have been crunching some numbers on these pistons and from the info i have gathered it seems they will work in the aba. 
2.8l 30v v6 pistons:
-82.5mm bore
-*21*mm wrist pin
-28mm compression height
aba:
-82.5mm bore
-21mm wrist pin
-30.6mm compression height
in theory, since the compression height of the 30v piston is 2.6mm shorter than that of the aba piston it would simulate a 2.6mm dish?
i entered this data into a cr calculator and came up with 9.25:1 with the 20v combustion chamber. give or take a few tenths of a cc (dont know the crush thickness of the aba head gasket)
best part of this little experiment? i have 6 of these pistons in my posession.







more will be revealed. as soon as i find an obd1 block we'll be putting it together and making more accurate measurements.
i have:
-the pistons
-aph head
-pl intermediate shaft and oil pump shaft 
-pl crank gear
-pl im shaft gear
-aph cam gear
-aeb intake mani
-45 lb injectors
i need (to my knowledge)
-157t belt
-16v tensioner?
-obd1 (oil squirter) block
-sem (megasquirt)
-turbo mani
-gt28rs








oh ya its all goin in my fox wagon







perfect excuse for a quattro setup.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_That is an expensive solution









Could be








Found AGG engine with original impulse sender and correct crankshaft. In fact, it's already in my garage.
Now just need to check in real does B2/B3 engine mounts fit that block. After that need to buy spare AEB engine, custom pistons, rods and i'm halfway there










_Modified by _Val at 5:56 AM 3-20-2010_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *lilgreydentwagen* »_
2.8l 30v v6 pistons:
-82.5mm bore
-*21*mm wrist pin
-28mm compression height

28mm CH is confirmed where?

_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_After that need to buy spare AEB engine, custom pistons, rods and i'm halfway there 

If you need pistons and rods Val,
we have


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## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
28mm CH is confirmed where?

this... correction?

_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_I measured a compression height of 29.5 mm and a pin diameter of 21 mm. Even though it is ~ 1mm lower, not having a dish (and the slight "dome") will raise compression to ~10:1 for N/A applications. The rods look like ~157mm to me but I could not get a good measurement on them but they also have the 54 mm big end.
Edit: I rechecked the numbers and had not subtracted enough for the reduced compression height. That makes more sense.

{confused:
i cant seem to find the other quote i saw. so i have 2 different measurements for this type of piston. to measure you go from the top of the piston to the center of the wrist pin correct? if so i will go do it first thing in the morning. 
even so, with enough fuel 10:1 cr is still good for boost.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_If you need pistons and rods Val,
we have









Not now. Still need to do some things before it.
What would be price and shipping to Europe for +/- the same parts that are in ebay link, except for CR ~9.0:1 ?
AGG block, crank and AEB head. I think all other parts needed i can buy OEM locally. Maybe not...


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## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*

crap. i just went out and measured. couldn't get good pics. it's a touch under 30mm with my crappy tape and it has a 1mm dome to it. i pmed vwpat last night and this is what was waiting for me.

_Quote, originally posted by *vwpat* »_where did you see those? the 2.8s are 30 mm and give ~11:1.

i'd be more comfortable with the n.a. setup with that high of compression.
this project is once again on standby








trade anyone? 4dishes for 6domes?










_Modified by lilgreydentwagen at 10:53 AM 3-21-2010_


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

Quick question to Issam. What is this side engine mount from? - B3?
http://bildez.lv/bildes/val/bl...2.jpg


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_
What would be price and shipping to Europe for +/- the same parts that are in ebay link, except for CR ~9.0:1 ?
AGG block, crank and AEB head. I think all other parts needed i can buy OEM locally. Maybe not...

email me : sales[at]inaengineering[dot]com
I will give you a good price quote.

_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Quick question to Issam. What is this side engine mount from? - B3?
http://bildez.lv/bildes/val/bl...2.jpg

Audi 80 2.0E B3
1.8S and 1.9D will be the same. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Only 2.0 8v b3 i know is AAD.








One person offers me passenger mount like this. Could be more like B2.
http://bildez.lv/bildes/val/bl...3.jpg
http://bildez.lv/bildes/val/bl...5.jpg


_Modified by _Val at 12:58 PM 3-21-2010_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Only 2.0 8v b3 i know is AAD.








One person offers me passenger mount like this. Could be more like B2.
http://bildez.lv/bildes/val/bl...3.jpg
http://bildez.lv/bildes/val/bl...5.jpg

Never seen that one.
I have a couple of those mounts if you need one.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (Issam Abed)*

Mount is not a problem to find. Just needed confirmation, what was in first picture. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*Re: 20V Hybrid - How To (_Val)*

issam u got mail


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Issam Abed* »_
Its pretty simple really.The ABA crankshaft gear is *square* toothed and has 22 teeth whereas the AEB crankshaft gear is *curvinlinear* toothed and has 26 teeth.In order to use the distributor,the IM shaft must have a gear on it that is double the # of teeth on the crank gear hence 52 teeth.In other words whatever gear you use on the camshaft,use on the IM shaft and make sure the crank gear has half the # of teeth.

Can I simplify 2.0 8v IM modification and just use complete IM shaft with both end gears from AEB? That way I could use AEB oil sump and baffle, AEB head with AEB cam gear. Don't need distributor - just use small gear (between IM and oil sump) and AEB blockoff plate.







Change ABA/AGG crank gear with AEB unit and that's it...?


_Modified by _Val at 12:34 PM 4-15-2010_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_
Can I simplify 2.0 8v IM modification and just use complete IM shaft with both end gears from AEB? That way I could use AEB oil sump and baffle, AEB head with AEB cam gear. Don't need distributor - just use small gear (between IM and oil sump) and AEB blockoff plate.







Change ABA/AGG crank gear with AEB unit and that's it...?

Val,
all you do is you use the AEB oil pump pick up tube on the ABA/AGG oil pump. You can modified the ABA/AGG IM shaft to ACCEPT the AEB IM shaft gear. Very easy to do.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

OK, then I need only AEB oil pump pick up and baffle. What gear fits in the place of ABA/AGG distributor if I keep ABA/AGG IM shaft? Can I use AEB gear ( part nr. 22 ) or from 2.0 16v? Maybe i could cut it off from AGG disttributor










_Modified by _Val at 9:24 AM 4-16-2010_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_OK, then I need only AEB oil pump pick up and baffle. What gear fits in the place of ABA/AGG distributor if I keep ABA/AGG IM shaft? Can I use AEB gear ( part nr. 22 ) or from 2.0 16v? Maybe i could cut it off from AGG disttributor








Just empty out the distributor and leave it alone.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif you have a mail


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif you have a mail









Replied http://****************.com/smile/emgift.gif


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

*Re: (Issam Abed)*

Read again all pages







because wanted to know what crank pulley from diesel I need. Found this part number: 028105243T. Am I correct?
That leads to next question about toothed belt covers... What are my options if I use 236mm block w/o distributor and AEB head.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_
That leads to next question about toothed belt covers... What are my options if I use 236mm block w/o distributor and AEB head. 

You can use all 3 AEB covers but you will have a 15mm gap. You can do like I did if you are real picky and buy 2 top covers. Then Cut and weld to form one to make up for the gap. You can view what I did in one of the last pages of my build thread (signature). Also, in case you are not aware the 3rd cover that I talk about is a small backing plate cover.
All in all, the covers are very inexpensive from the dealer.
S


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Read again all pages







because wanted to know what crank pulley from diesel I need. Found this part number: 028105243T. Am I correct?
That leads to next question about toothed belt covers... What are my options if I use 236mm block w/o distributor and AEB head. 

Val,
Dont use that crank pulley. Use the 1.8T pulley + the spacer


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

Shawn, thanks for idea and pictures








Issam, then you need to add third option in first post








...and diesel part number in second.
I can source used TDI crank pulley for cheap and just try how it fits together with everything else.


_Modified by _Val at 1:09 PM 4-26-2010_


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (_Val)*


_Quote, originally posted by *_Val* »_Shawn, thanks for idea and pictures








Issam, then you need to add third option in first post









I know








I need to update the first post drastically.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Bump for new forum


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Well I found another belt that works but it does require a smaller tensioner pulley as well. A Gates T226 (Honda H22 twin can) belt which is 155 teeth combined with a Mitsubishi 2.4L tensioner works on an ABA 20/20 with the 9A IM shaft andn 43 tooth gear. You do have to use a spacer to get the tensioner off of the head but 3 large washers works fine. The GMB brand tensioner part # is MD182537A and they list for 26 bux but IMC carries it for 8 and change.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Prof315 said:


> Well I found another belt that works but it does require a smaller tensioner pulley as well. A Gates T226 (Honda H22 twin can) belt which is 155 teeth combined with a Mitsubishi 2.4L tensioner works on an ABA 20/20 with the 9A IM shaft andn 43 tooth gear. You do have to use a spacer to get the tensioner off of the head but 3 large washers works fine. The GMB brand tensioner part # is MD182537A and they list for 26 bux but IMC carries it for 8 and change.


That one was posted early on but it is Curvilinear III tooth. Not saying there are not people running that tooth profile, but proper tooth profile is Curvilinear II.


----------



## dtHIGH (Jun 12, 2008)

i need some belt help. im doing a 20/20 conversion on an ABA and retaining the distributor. ive got my hands on the proper 1.8t awp pulley for the intermediate shaft and such. but i cant seem to find any timing belt to fit this application. i know its supposed to be 158 tooth but i was wondering if you had a part #? i have been searching for quite some time now and havent found a belt that will work.


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## TheApple (Nov 1, 2009)

So I have an AEG engine right now and just for vilification purposes I wanted to know if someone(s) could tell me which of what I need to do a 20v swap. I'm still new to the whole VW thing and would really appreciate the help yo.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

TheApple said:


> So I have an AEG engine right now and just for vilification purposes I wanted to know if someone(s) could tell me which of what I need to do a 20v swap. I'm still new to the whole VW thing and would really appreciate the help yo.


 Do you have access to a 1.8T engine?


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

sure
let me know:thumbup:


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Yea, I wasn't happy at all with the ABA Head Gasket, but it is the best match (I tried every one made for the states).

Even still the front oil drain as well as the rear corner drains provide very very little gasket surface to seal if anything.

That's why I went through the trouble to weld mine up. ..of course I took mine to the other end of the extreme


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Corner Drain holes:


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

One thing I did notice from your pic is that you have the better AEB casting for this swap. Notice how the Cooling jacket ports are bridged on the rear side of the head just below each chamber? Notice on my original pic how mine were channeled? This gets very close to the gasket crush zones there too which is why I also welded those those up as you can see on my finished pic.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

yes, I tried AEB (along with all 8v, AEG late 2.0, etc) and the ABA was much better all around. It is possible that the difference in our head castings makes a difference here though.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Right, but you will see that if you try to use that HG on the ABA block, it will be a no go.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

I honestly do not remember why I steered away from the AEB. I know I bought one and in fact, probably still have it 

Certainly Bore was a factor, especially since I am at 83mm, but I really thought it was more than that. Perhaps the rear coolant passages that I ended up welding up. been way too long


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Val,
you still putting this in the B2?


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## mark///m3 (Aug 23, 2010)

this may be a stupid question....

i have an aeg engine and a 20v head. do i need to have reliefs cut in the pistons for clearance or is it a safety issue if something breaks? what i was hoping to do was slap on the 20v head and use the 225hp tt turbo and intake (i have the complete engine.) also will it run with the aeg ecu? not in terms of running a boosted setup, just starting and being a base.


----------



## cyberstasi (Apr 20, 2010)

pardon the noob question, but what is the benefit of going with all the work involved here to fit a 20v Head to the PG block instead of just dropping in a full motor/trans out of a 1.8t?
If you wanted to stay with a supercharger, surely you could remove the turbo off the motor and figure out a way to bolt either a lysholm or a VF charger...

or is the reason people go this route so that they get cred for going this route?

Just seems to me (a engine swap noob), to be alot more work and money than doing a complete switch over. Someone care to enlighten me?


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## cyberstasi (Apr 20, 2010)

_Val said:


> What if 1.8t block doesn't fit in engine bay without modified or home-made engine mounts?



See now thats a good reason that I didnt read anywhere else. 

So you're telling me that all the guys that have done 1.8t swaps either did this hybrid setup or went with custom mounts? Maybe its the swap-noob in me...but i'd think rewelding mounts would still be eaiser than all the work needed for the hybrid. However I DO realize that eaiser doesnt always equal more fun. :laugh:


----------



## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

cyberstasi said:


> See now thats a good reason that I didnt read anywhere else.
> 
> So you're telling me that all the guys that have done 1.8t swaps either did this hybrid setup or went with custom mounts? Maybe its the swap-noob in me...but i'd think rewelding mounts would still be eaiser than all the work needed for the hybrid. However I DO realize that eaiser doesnt always equal more fun. :laugh:


They either used the "custom" mounts or used an early 1.8T with 058 block (AEB, ATW IIRC) but those are getting harder to find with low mileage.


----------



## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


----------



## cyberstasi (Apr 20, 2010)

_Val said:


> I didn't say that  It's just one reason why go hybrid.
> And, in some countries you have problems with MOT when making custom mounts w/o making conversion project, spending some $$$, killing your nerves in bureaucracy, etc :laugh: It's not impossible but why bother? In the same time, nobody has prohibited putting different head onto original block.


See more good information I hadn't read before. 

I dont ask to be a smart ass... i asked because I was curious and the answer will influence future decisions with m car. This has been on the list of ideas for my own car. I want to stay 4cyl, and I want to stay with a supercharger... so my choices seem to be limited to a 16V G60 (lysholm) setup, or going with a 20V hybrid with a lysholm. Or going totally off the res and doing something insane like a dual lysholm setup (delete the AC and figure out how to mount another charger down there). In my case it probably would make more sense to go the hybrid route since I want to retain the charger than to go with a 1.8t setup and then rip off the turbo and install a SC and then have to possibly go with stand alone management. 
Probably between my options... i'm looking at about the same work either way... just work in a different area.

... or I could have you build the motor for me and I'll come pick it up. :laugh:


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

The difference between the 8v Cog and the 16v cog was .2265" ~= 5.8 mm (at least the 16v cog that I was getting). I would be very surprised if there were any differences.

I know that I check the alignment of the serp pulleys and afterward and they were t!ts on


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Just use a 1.8T crank pulley and one of our spacers. Finding an ABA pulley that isnt cracked is a shot in the dark. They are coming off 15+ year old motors guys.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Val
get a OBD-1 VR6 water pump pulley and a MKIV power steering pulley
should bring that belt into 1 plane


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Yea, the Bravia belt is 158T which is kind of close. As long as you maintain proper tension you should be fine. 

The Custom Belts that I was having made were 157T which is perfect and provides more clearance. Not sure if there is anything off the shelf over there in 25mm width, but there is not here, which is why it required Custom orders. 

S


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## rx2tones (Jun 1, 2006)

thanks for the info guys help me alot with my builds .........











............................................................................................................................................
fs 20/20 parts
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5049712-fs-1.8t-aba-20-20-parts


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## Deus204 (Mar 28, 2007)

> * for the small Oil return @ the front ,if you have the:
> 1. PG Block you weld up the exisiting return and create a new one ("a") that matches the ABA Headgasket.


I just read all 48 pages and this is the part I'm still confused on. Does anyone still have an active link to these pics or can the clarify what it is that is done here? My plan is to use a PG block and a AEB head for a Corrado G60 build. Thank you!


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Deus204 said:


> I just read all 48 pages and this is the part I'm still confused on. Does anyone still have an active link to these pics or can the clarify what it is that is done here? My plan is to use a PG block and a AEB head for a Corrado G60 build. Thank you!


You planning on new pistons? I hope so cause you're going to be about 6 to 1 compression without them. I just finished an ABA based 20/20T with an AWW head and man it rips. I'm only at 8psi boost (my wideband crapped out just as I started tuning) and way rich but the sucker really scoots.

A dead stock OBD1 ABA with a 20V head gives you around 8.5 to 8.7 to 1 ( I had my head milled 0.15" an cc at 8.99 to 1 ) and no piston notching is needed. Plus the long rod/tall deck combo that you get with an ABA make some NASTY torque.


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

I thought piston notching was required because of the middle valve?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

That's what it says near the beginning of this thread but I did all of my mockups with a 97 ABA block (castle pistons) and an AEB head and when I checked clearances with clay I had .070". Then when I put the real deal together (95 ABA block with the nice smooth dish pistons and AWW head with .015" milled off it) I checked and had .085" piston to valve clearance. I've been driving with the 20/20 in the car for a couple of weeks now and everything is cool even at 7000 rpm.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Prof315 said:


> That's what it says near the beginning of this thread but I did all of my mockups with a 97 ABA block (castle pistons) and an AEB head and when I checked clearances with clay I had .070". Then when I put the real deal together (95 ABA block with the nice smooth dish pistons and AWW head with .015" milled off it) I checked and had .085" piston to valve clearance. I've been driving with the 20/20 in the car for a couple of weeks now and everything is cool even at 7000 rpm.


....I bet your CR is rather low.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> ....I bet your CR is rather low.


8.99 to 1.... absolutely perfect for the K03.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

And while we're at it let me dispell another myth. Using the Cam Phaser on the VVT heads for performance and not just warm up emissions works. I've got MS activating the solenoid at 3500 rpms and you can feel the difference and see it in the way the motor revs and the turbo spools. No I haven't been to the dyno yet but when I go I'll be sure to try pulls with VVT on and off


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Prof315 said:


> 8.99 to 1.... absolutely perfect for the K03.


Not doubting your calculations by any means and I applaud you for using the ABA pistons without the valve cut out but ABA pistons have a larger bowl volume than an AWP/AWW pistons and AWP pistons yield a 9.3:1 CR. What was your bowl volume with the piston @ TDC?


Prof315 said:


> And while we're at it let me dispell another myth. Using the Cam Phaser on the VVT heads for performance and not just warm up emissions works. I've got MS activating the solenoid at 3500 rpms and you can feel the difference and see it in the way the motor revs and the turbo spools. No I haven't been to the dyno yet but when I go I'll be sure to try pulls with VVT on and off


Dispelled that myth a full year ago with my time attack car 
You can get around 22 degrees of advance with the VVT solenoid activated but if you are on Maestro or a similar ME-7 control system then you need to remove the VVT function and have an independent box that powers the solenoid.
The only way you will gain from using the VVT solenoid is by using adjustable gears on the camshaft ends and manually advancing the intake camshaft . We did it using CAT3658's and turned off the Solenoid around 6200 rpm's.I am not sure if there are any gains to be had with stock camshafts though....


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Not doubting your calculations by any means and I applaud you for using the ABA pistons without the valve cut out but ABA pistons have a larger bowl volume than an AWP/AWW pistons and AWP pistons yield a 9.3:1 CR. What was your bowl volume with the piston @ TDC?
> 
> Dispelled that myth a full year ago with my time attack car
> You can get around 22 degrees of advance with the VVT solenoid activated but if you are on Maestro or a similar ME-7 control system then you need to remove the VVT function and have an independent box that powers the solenoid.
> The only way you will gain from using the VVT solenoid is by using adjustable gears on the camshaft ends and manually advancing the intake camshaft . We did it using CAT3658's and turned off the Solenoid around 6200 rpm's.I am not sure if there are any gains to be had with stock camshafts though....


The dish cc's at 16 cc and the chamber was 37cc. 

As far as the VVT goes, I am using a Megasquirt 3/3X to control all aspects of the engine. I can turn it on or off whenever I choose and it RETARDS the intake cam not advances it. I'm currently turning it on full blast at 3500 rpms and it's like a set of secondaries opening on a 4 barrel carb when active.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Prof315 said:


> The dish cc's at 16 cc and the chamber was 37cc.
> 
> As far as the VVT goes, I am using a Megasquirt 3/3X to control all aspects of the engine. I can turn it on or off whenever I choose and it RETARDS the intake cam not advance it. I'm currently turning it on full blast at 3500 rpms and it's like a set of secondaries opening on a 4 barrel carb when active.


When I cc'ed my AEB head I got 42cc's. I dont think flat bottom valves would affect the CC # by 5cc's.Assuming you are using an ABA head gasket with 0.9mm thickness when compressed and 83.5mm max bore you should have a CR of : 8.45 : 1.

As for the VVT, I would expect you are on standalone as that is the only way you are currently going to be able to control the solenoid AND the engine. Going through ME-7 all be it not impossible is a complete PITA and not many chip tuners have been able to utilize it.We had it come on at idle to approx 6000 rpm's . Not looking to start a peeing contest , you got your VVT to work great but as for Advance...I think I would know what we did with our cams on our project....both statically with the cams and the VVT. Hope this dyno helps....


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

No worries I don't do pissing contests. As far as the chamber volume goes, I had the head milled and it cc'd at 40cc before milling, 37 cc after.

With the VVT thing VERY impressive dyno numbers. A far as advance or retard.... I'm pretty sure it's retarding the intake cam very similar to BMW VANOS. By retarding the intake cam you effectively reduce the lobe seperation and thusly move the powerband to a higher rpm bracket. It's really easy to test.... turn it on at idle... it (idle) becomes lumpy and rough indicating you've retarded the cam timing. If it was advancing the cam timing you wouldn't notice all that much at idle but the low end grunt would be increased. 

I'll hopefully be going to the dyno this month and will do some similar testing to yours. Won't be as much power though.


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Hey guys great info albe it confusing i was hust wondering if and when using a dizzy 8v block why cant i make a custom 20v/8v adjustable pulley using a 20v centre and 8v outer?


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Or with the ot mark on the outside take 6-7mm off the pulley at the back to line up with the im shaftpulley and space the normal 8v tensioner out a few mm to line up or maybe there's a reason multivalve heads have wider belts


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Asmahaas said:


> Hey guys great info albe it confusing i was hust wondering if and when using a dizzy 8v block why cant i make a custom 20v/8v adjustable pulley using a 20v centre and 8v outer?


Because with the 8V timing belt format, there are not that many options for a longer belt with the same tooth profile.


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Ok thanks issam i will have to source the 16v pulleys then its just getting scarce in south africa or fork out for 20v ones


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Asmahaas said:


> Ok thanks issam i will have to source the 16v pulleys then its just getting scarce in south africa or fork out for 20v ones


I have a whole bunch here if you need.

How many of you would be interested in a 20V conversion kit?


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Most south african turbo guys are into twincam toyotas where are you from it might be cheaper to source it locally as i also need a camcover intake/fuelrail 8 exhaustvalves etc off topic is there a how to on valve replacement as our local engineering shop seems to make a mess of the 20v head


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## Ronin706 (Apr 26, 2009)

I've started collecting parts for my 20/20 build and i have a few questions that i haven't seen answered. I plan on making 450-550whp 

parts collected so far: 
AEG block 
AEB head - fully assembled 
Eagle rods 144x20 
Wiseco 83MM Bore 92.8MM Stroke 9:1 CR 1.8t Pistons 
Big bore intake manifold 
AWW ECU (switching over to 1.8t ecu so i can go Maestro) 
AWW Engine harness 
I already have all of the big turbo stuff that will be swapped over from my current motor 

1) Which head studs should i get for the AEG block with AEB head? Will any 10mm 1.8t head stud work or do i need something specific? 
2) Would this headgasket work or do i need something else to keep the CR in check? I can't seem to find the one referenced in the begining anywhere for sale (06B 103 383 AF), and don't know if it would fit 83mm pistons. 
http://www.intengineering.com/Overbore-Headgasket-for-p8914943.html 
3) Should i also think about getting ARP main studs or is it really not necessary? 
4) I heard somewhere that the dowel pins on the AEG block don't line up with the AEB head. Is that true or has anyone solved that issue?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Ronin706 said:


> 1) Which head studs should i get for the AEG block with AEB head? Will any 10mm 1.8t head stud work or do i need something specific?
> 2) Would this headgasket work or do i need something else to keep the CR in check? I can't seem to find the one referenced in the begining anywhere for sale (06B 103 383 AF), and don't know if it would fit 83mm pistons.
> http://www.intengineering.com/Overbore-Headgasket-for-p8914943.html
> 3) Should i also think about getting ARP main studs or is it really not necessary?
> 4) I heard somewhere that the dowel pins on the AEG block don't line up with the AEB head. Is that true or has anyone solved that issue?



Any 06A/06B head stud kit will work - I do recommened going with head bolts though 

I have a few of the correct head gaskets here. 

ARP main studs are always good. Gives you that added insurance 

Just remove them....or drilled the aeb head to accept the dowel pin


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Is this even worth it? Cant i just rather spend all this money on my 8v turbo?the 20v head seems problematic and theres horror stories floating around about replacing valves and pulleys keyways giving way


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Asmahaas said:


> Is this even worth it? Cant i just rather spend all this money on my 8v turbo?the 20v head seems problematic and theres horror stories floating around about replacing valves and pulleys keyways giving way


Use the 20V head...
the newest G60 motor is almost 20 years old.


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## Asmahaas (Jul 7, 2010)

Im running 8v xflo turbo not g60:beer:


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## 2OVT (Sep 11, 2009)

question; I have a 2.0L ABA bottom end with a G60 head/G-ladder. I'd rather like to do a 20v head swap vs 16v head swap and then boost it. If I went 20v, I would want the AEB head right? What about fitting the K03s on? What about all the software and such for it? A flash still possible for it?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

2OVT said:


> question; I have a 2.0L ABA bottom end with a G60 head/G-ladder. I'd rather like to do a 20v head swap vs 16v head swap and then boost it. If I went 20v, I would want the AEB head right? What about fitting the K03s on? What about all the software and such for it? A flash still possible for it?


 Well what is your power goal? What chassis? MKII?


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## 2OVT (Sep 11, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Well what is your power goal? What chassis? MKII?


Like 3-350ish and it is in a Corrado. I can't decide between the 9A head in my garage or a 20v.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

2OVT said:


> Like 3-350ish and it is in a Corrado. I can't decide between the 9A head in my garage or a 20v.


20V will make more power but will cost more to build. 9A head is cheaper.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

2OVT said:


> question; I have a 2.0L ABA bottom end with a G60 head/G-ladder. I'd rather like to do a 20v head swap vs 16v head swap and then boost it. If I went 20v, I would want the AEB head right? What about fitting the K03s on? What about all the software and such for it? A flash still possible for it?


Once you go hybrid it's really best to go standalone. You'd need a custom flash and that can get expensive.

An AEB head is not neccesary although it is one of the few big port heads available in the US. I am using an 01 AWW head with a TT intake (driver's side throttle body) and the stock AWW K03 and exhaust manifold.


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

Issam Abed said:


> Any 06A/06B head stud kit will work - *I do recommened going with head bolts though*
> I have a few of the correct head gaskets here.
> ARP main studs are always good. Gives you that added insurance
> Just remove them....or drilled the aeb head to accept the dowel pin


Please explain.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

ALLGORIMSHOW said:


> Please explain.



Cheaper
get the job done
reusable


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

Issam Abed said:


> Cheaper
> get the job done
> reusable


Fair enough. When should suds be chosen over bolts? I know some guys are pushing 400+hp with oem bolts but when would studs come into play? 700-800+hp? 35+psi?


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## noizze (Aug 19, 2003)

Issam Abed said:


> Cheaper
> get the job done
> reusable


I was under the impression that OEM bolts are torque to yield, thus not reusable?


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

noizze said:


> I was under the impression that OEM bolts are torque to yield, thus not reusable?


ARP sell both, studs and bolts.


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## 2OVT (Sep 11, 2009)

Prof315 said:


> Once you go hybrid it's really best to go standalone. You'd need a custom flash and that can get expensive.
> 
> An AEB head is not neccesary although it is one of the few big port heads available in the US. I am using an 01 AWW head with a TT intake (driver's side throttle body) and the stock AWW K03 and exhaust manifold.


AWW has the K03S, doesn't it? Is your AWW head on an ABA?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

2OVT said:


> AWW has the K03S, doesn't it? Is your AWW head on an ABA?


Yeah it does but I didn't get the turbo with the head and I don't see the S on the housing.

The head is on a 95 obd1 ABA stock short block. The only modification to the short block was removal of one of the dowel pins, and a 2.0L 16V oil pump, IM shaft and drive. No clearance issues but I did check with clay to be sure.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

ALLGORIMSHOW said:


> Fair enough. When should suds be chosen over bolts? I know some guys are pushing 400+hp with oem bolts but when would studs come into play? 700-800+hp? 35+psi?


It really is all about preference. I choose the cheaper of the 2 if they are both doing the same job. For e.g. ARP does not make a reusable bolt for the 16V motor so its either OEM or Head stud. For the 20V you have 3 options : OEM , ARP Bolt , ARP stud....I choose the bolt.


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## ALLGORIMSHOW (Jul 1, 2002)

Issam Abed said:


> It really is all about preference. I choose the cheaper of the 2 if they are both doing the same job. For e.g. ARP does not make a reusable bolt for the 16V motor so its either OEM or Head stud. For the 20V you have 3 options : OEM , ARP Bolt , ARP stud....I choose the bolt.


Cool, good to know. Thanks :thumbup:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Please ask all questions in here.:thumbup:


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## Belfegor (Dec 8, 2009)

*1.8 8v g60 to 2.0 16V turbo*

Hi,

i start to read this topic from the start, but i hope you will understand it isn' possible from 2003 
Soooo, if somebody have answered this type of question sorry.

I have a corrado 1.8 g60 8v and i want to build a 16V or 20V 2.0T engine.

I plane to use tdi crank and a 16v or 20v head to reach the 2.0, BUT i want (need) to use the PG Block.

Somebody is able to help :
Witch length of rods i need to use?
What type of piston? 

Target CR is somewhere 8.5:1

It is possible in the PG Block 

Thanks in advance 

PS: Sorry for my bad english i'm from Hungary


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## RedFighter (Dec 11, 2010)

Hello there. I have just bought a Corrado G60 and i want to think about new performance. I want to use the PG block in my prject and i want to think about the had. First, i have think about putitng on a 16v head from kr engine and to keep the G-ladder. But after reading some things, i decide to build a 20vT with PG block. i have read here that i should use the 1.8t Pistons becuase the PG is a lover CR engine and the PG psitons are useless here. So, i want to ask you about putting the 20v head on the pg block. Is this thing possible, i mean i want to use the 1.8T management with 1.8T ECU and other stuff. What do you think about? thanks a lot !


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

RedFighter said:


> Is this thing possible, i mean i want to use the 1.8T management with 1.8T ECU and other stuff.


 Of course it's possible. You will have to make crank trigger as you will not be using distributor. I Don't think your engine block has impulse rotor on crankshaft from factory.
http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?3516017-16v-MS-coilpack....but-no-crank-trigger-!&p=45503269&viewfull=1#post45503269


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

what's up everybody, trying to scan this thread but so far haven't found answers to all my questions. 
I got a 95 golf 2.0 ( i believe it's the first gen of odb2 and still has distributor) 8v. this summer i will start ripping it out and I am looking to go into a 20v head. h'm looking through this thread and on search for all needed parts and what to expect. for now got a just a few ?'s 

1) if everything is still OK on stock block, should I keep rods or change out along w/piston heads 
2) what pistons are better/best for high power/daily driver(i know it can be done) 
3) what rods are best/better 

I'm also looking to boost the car (thinking about a g25, g28 type turbo but will first start out with a t3,t4 ) 

any help would be very much appreciated.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

_Val said:


> Of course it's possible. You will have to make crank trigger as you will not be using distributor. I Don't think your engine block has impulse rotor on crankshaft from factory.
> http://forums.fourtitude.com/showthread.php?3516017-16v-MS-coilpack....but-no-crank-trigger-!&p=45503269&viewfull=1#post45503269


Val,
we dont recommend this kit to anyone. You shouldnt either my friend.:thumbup:


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## weejunGL (Feb 2, 2005)

Issam Abed said:


> Val,
> we dont recommend this kit to anyone. You shouldnt either my friend.:thumbup:


please, inform us of why not?

since its used stock on various vw's, it should be good enough for some cheap ass standalone project


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

weejunGL said:


> please, inform us of why not?
> 
> since its used stock on various vw's, it should be good enough for some cheap ass standalone project


It is used on various Polo engines. No 037/058/026 motor uses that set up. If you want a 60-2 wheel set up then go with the unit I came up . Its cheaper than the polo piece:thumbup:


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## kharts (May 5, 2011)

What do you guys think: swapping a 20V on a AEG block, boosting the 8V AEG block, or both? I'm trying to get some power gain on a budget


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

kharts said:


> What do you guys think: swapping a 20V on a AEG block, boosting the 8V AEG block, or both? I'm trying to get some power gain on a budget


Get a 20V head with manifolds and turbo, add a megasquirt and nearly 200whp is yours once it's tuned.


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## kharts (May 5, 2011)

Prof315 said:


> Get a 20V head with manifolds and turbo, add a megasquirt and nearly 200whp is yours once it's tuned.


20V looks complicated lol. turbo from the 1.8 or custom t-series?

anyone know where i can get forged internals? a lot of the seller sites seem to be dead


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

kharts said:


> 20V looks complicated lol. turbo from the 1.8 or custom t-series?
> 
> anyone know where i can get forged internals? a lot of the seller sites seem to be dead


I did my 20/20T by doing the necessary mods to the 20V head to bolt it to an ABA block. ( did nothing to the bottom end. I used stock 1.8T manifolds and K03. Wound up a touch under 9 to 1 and I can run 13 psi boost before I run out of injector duty. (again stock AWW 1.8T) As far as pistons go.... not sure but wiseco probably makes them and Scat makes rods for the AEG.


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## BmoreDubs (Aug 26, 2009)

:thumbup: excellent info


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## Irish_Grenade (Jun 20, 2011)

subscribed.. will view later:thumbup:


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## sauron18 (Apr 11, 2009)

I have a AEG if put a 20v head and go n/a do i need to put megasquirt or another similar to make the most hp i can get? how much power will it gain with stock engine management? would it be similar to the 2.0 20v (alt) 135hp or maybe more?


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## cubanvr6jetta (Oct 22, 2009)

hey im have a 20v audi head now the im going to rebuild and my stock motor is ABA i want to put this head on it but i have a few questions 
im keeping my dizzy and the plan is stock k03 setup


1- timing belt 
2- camshaft gear(stock 20v?)
3- crank gear(16v or stock aba)
4- can i use my stock accessories 
5- do i have to machine the stock pistons(for the intake 3rd valve)

i need to get this right pls i dont wanna waste time or money


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

Did you read this? http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2805002-Project-Build-sc2020/page1
Also lot of info is in this thread's 1st post.


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## Kubanbee (Apr 10, 2011)

Do I take the complete AEB out of the passat and run it with the Dizzy and upgrade the turbo/add a SNS chip??? In my head it seems easier than building the G60 hybrid (i.e. not dealing with a 16V pulley machining for the IM shaft). Plus that means i will get to make some of my money back for the parts i have to buy when i sell the Charger/intercooler/anything else.

Would I have to do anything major with running the complete AEB block or would the hardest part be adding the dizzy and modifying the intake manifold to take the G60 throttle body, and then start up and enjoy? 

I am starting my project in just over a month and really want to get it right the first time.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

Kubanbee said:


> and run it with the Dizzy


 Why you want to return to stone age?


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## Kubanbee (Apr 10, 2011)

Well I figured I would run it with the G60's wiring until i figured out what i wanted to do for a standalone, But i guess I could use the factory AEB wiring and ECU, but the G60's is already in place and should be a easy thing to hook-up. Just trying to get it running while i figureit all out.


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## cubanvr6jetta (Oct 22, 2009)

do the intemediate shaft have to be from the 9a or the aba only ??

can i use the aeb intermediate shaft with the can gear on it on my aba????
thanks

aeb look exactly the same and the can gear fit perfect


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

cubanvr6jetta said:


> do the intemediate shaft have to be from the 9a or the aba only ??
> 
> can i use the aeb intermediate shaft with the can gear on it on my aba????
> thanks
> ...


I _think_ it has to be 9A because only the 9A and ABA have the same oil pump drive gear on the IM shaft.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

If you try to use the AEB setup, you will have to do some machine work on the IM shaft gear and shave it in half. Or else, it will not clear the 2L crank! The AEB (much like the PL) has a small drive gear and a larger gear on the IM shaft. 

By far not worth the trouble. Get a 9a setup or use the ABA IM shaft and:
a.) modify the end to accept the transverse 20v cam gear
b.) buy the Hybrid gear BBM sells which is the same diameter as the 9a.

If you go, a.) you will need a longer belt since the cam gear is a 52T larger diam gear than the 9a/PL/AEb which are 47T iirc and will drive the oil pump faster.

again, best bet is to get a 9a setup and then you won't have to run a dist or other means to drive the oil pump or have to deal with other issues mentioned.

S


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

I've been reading nonstop on this thread and have a few questions. I have a 95 aba engine block which I was going to purchase an aeb head for to bolt up and install a gs28r turbo. I am also getting IE rods w/ JE pistons. I am currently looking to purchase a crank that will take the abuse and don't know which one to get (aba crank is cast in my block). I am also planing on getting the "dizzy gizzy" from BBM and setting up electronic fuel injection. Eventually going to stand alone (if anyone can recommend one I would appreciate it) .
My questions are; do I have to change out the im shaft and or gear in my aba 2.0l block or can it stay (currently 8v im shaft oem)? can the same oil pump be used from the aba 2.0l? I need to know if I can leave the 2.0l block untouched and just bolt up the aeb head without any modification (except for plugging up the 3 holes as stated at the beginning of this thread) to the 2.0 block? I also read that i have to machine either the crank or a pulley in order to get the 16v or honda belt to work properly, is there any way around this? Also, what more difference will i get if i bore out to 83mm instead of stock which i believe is 81mm?


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks, I have checked out their website for the all inclusive package deal they have for the aba 16v conversion. when I called to ask if this would also work for the aeb to aba conversion, they didn't know. they could only guaranty it would work on 16v conversions. BBM has not performed an 20v/20l conversion (according to tech support except for 1 many years ago). I saw that the complete kit has the pulley/gears/timing belt to bypass all the work needed for the 16v swap that i believe the 20v swap is similar to. If anyone has any info please let me know.


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

Also, has anyone noted numbers/gain by boring out an aba block's bore from 82.5 to 83mm? just trying to save some $$$ if its not a substantial gain. Trying to push from 350-500hp at the wheels.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

.


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## Bx V-dubber (Dec 17, 2010)

Thanks for the info/help. I gotta hit a few junkyards for some parts. I'll also check out that site & see what they did/say.


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## cubanvr6jetta (Oct 22, 2009)

ok im gonna swap the complete aeb on my mk3 but i have a question can my accessory bracket and accessories work on the aeb??


ABA bracket with: alternator compressor and power steering. need to know if this will fit on the AEB engine


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

cubanvr6jetta said:


> ok im gonna swap the complete aeb on my mk3 but i have a question can my accessory bracket and accessories work on the aeb??
> 
> 
> ABA bracket with: alternator compressor and power steering. need to know if this will fit on the AEB engine


Will work fine:thumbup:

AEB is still a VW827 motor which is what the ABA is.


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## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

*sticky!!!*

50 pages and this thread still isn't stickied? Weak!


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

lilgreydentwagen said:


> 50 pages and this thread still isn't stickied? Weak!


 there was a time when it could have been but the G60 forum is dieing.


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## lilgreydentwagen (Sep 13, 2005)

we gotta get it stuck somewhere. this thread is packed with awesome. i'm starting mine as soon as i get pistons.


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## Mk2 SAiNT (Jul 10, 2007)

Bump of a classic and informative thread! One of the many projects I never got off the ground. I have the ABA block and the 20v AEB cylinder head. I'm missing all the other parts in between.


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## d12dub (Sep 16, 2011)

*20v g60 cams?*

Brilliant thread. 
Can any one PLEASE advise which cam shafts will work best for an ABE engine with a g60. The turbo cams init or agn adr NA cams or one of each? Thanks


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

d12dub said:


> Brilliant thread.
> Can any one PLEASE advise which cam shafts will work best for an ABE engine with a g60. The turbo cams init or agn adr NA cams or one of each? Thanks


I would love to get AGN cams to do some testing against AEB cams and defunct this once and for all.


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## d12dub (Sep 16, 2011)

Issam Abed said:


> I would love to get AGN cams to do some testing against AEB cams and defunct this once and for all.


If you dont mind that would be great can i send you a pair of agn cams please and adr? What cams do you have already your end. I got agn and adr sitting here, there no good to me till i know what will work best with me old blower lol and im only after drivability not hp, many thanks


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

d12dub said:


> If you dont mind that would be great can i send you a pair of agn cams please and adr? What cams do you have already your end. I got agn and adr sitting here, there no good to me till i know what will work best with me old blower lol and im only after drivability not hp, many thanks


can you give me the part #'s of the camshafts you have?


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## d12dub (Sep 16, 2011)

Right then the NA cams i have still in heads are the same numbers
A4 ADR large port non vvt head has 0581 SDEW4 INLET and 0582 SDEW1 EX
a3 AGN large port vvt head has 0581 SDEW4 INLET and 0592 SDEW1 EX

When the adr is at TDC the two marks on the cams are lined up perfect but
when the vvt agn is at TDC the inlet cam is past its mark, not by alot but defo advanced.

I will take the cover off the AEB


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## d12dub (Sep 16, 2011)

engine tomorrow and check them #'s

Whats the chance of it depending on BHP ie different cams for 125-150-180-225 hp

Has any one with a 20v60 got any power numbers please and with what cams fitted & MAP ?
Thanks


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

d12dub said:


> engine tomorrow and check them #'s
> 
> Whats the chance of it depending on BHP ie different cams for 125-150-180-225 hp
> 
> ...


 i dont think any of the 20V G60's are running.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

:thumbup:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

If anyone is interested I have a few of the 90* distributor caps.

Guys, 
It took a long time for me to complile this information in a clear and concise form for all to read. Sending me a PM asking me to explain to you what is allready very clear will only get you referred back to this thread. If you can not understand what is going on in the 1st post of this thread then maybe the task at hand is too much for you currently and you should seek help before continuing. If a portion of this thread is unclear , tell me where it is unclear and I will do my best to expand on it.
:thumbup:


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## mk 2.5 fatman (May 6, 2011)

*digi II*

Will this swap work with digi II? How critical is it to not have a obd I Aba block? How much for a 90 degree cap?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

mk 2.5 fatman said:


> Will this swap work with digi II? How critical is it to not have a obd I Aba block? How much for a 90 degree cap?



Yes but I wont recommend it considering what Digi-II came standard with. Highly recommend a cheap standalone at that point.
ABA block is the most desired VW827 block available. You can use whichever you wish though
$25


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## mk 2.5 fatman (May 6, 2011)

*standalone?*



Issam Abed said:


> Yes but I wont recommend it considering what Digi-II came standard with. Highly recommend a cheap standalone at that point.


Which standalone would you recommend? It's going in a mk2


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

mk 2.5 fatman said:


> Which standalone would you recommend? It's going in a mk2


megasquirt


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## 4cedboost (Jul 16, 2006)

does anyone make a custom piston for a 144mm rod for on an 8v setup? turbocharging my PG block and using an AEG head from a mkIV 2.0


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

4cedboost said:


> does anyone make a custom piston for a 144mm rod for on an 8v setup? turbocharging my PG block and using an AEG head from a mkIV 2.0


What crankshaft? 86.4mm or 92.8mm?
we make custom pistons for all different applications.


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## Roman5400 (Jun 21, 2011)

What if I have an AZG block? Does all the AEG stuff apply still?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Roman5400 said:


> What if I have an AZG block? Does all the AEG stuff apply still?


Yes:thumbup:


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## fox-16v (Jun 30, 2009)

Alright ppl I am bringing this back from the dead. I want to build a 20v/lysholm. There is no real rush on building this HOWEVER with so many ways of doing this listed in this thread can someone please make a down and dirty parts list for me to acquire everything. I will use/already have a PG/PL/ and can get a ABA block. I would use the AEB cylinder head. Also, pictures are dead for drilling the new oil passage required for the new cylinder head as well as the guide to deal with the cam chain tensioner inside the AEB head. 

I will also do this using the stock digi 1 management coupled with a sns chip. So just a basic list for me to get the motor straight would be very helpful. I can figure out manifolds/accessories etc.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

fox-16v said:


> I will also do this using the stock digi 1 management coupled with a sns chip.


 Forget this completely. The G60 engine comes in chassis's over 20 years old...get standalone:thumbup:


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## fox-16v (Jun 30, 2009)

Well like I said I'm in no rush. I just have a large abundance of random vw parts from all walks of life and would like to build something unique.


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## dielynton (Jul 12, 2012)

*20v on 8v*

Hi good day all

just a quick one

why cant the normal 8v pulleys work on the 20v setup?

As far as i know the cam and dist also turns 2-1


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

dielynton said:


> Hi good day all
> 
> just a quick one
> 
> ...


Finding 8V timing belts for custom lengths are a bit hard because the pitch is extremely specific. Also the 20V gears/pulleys are 25mm wide.:thumbup:


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

building a DD and have been planning it for months now, was planning on swapping blocks and upgrading rods and pistons. 

came on here to see if anyone has used a TDI crank in an AEG hoping to see how easy it would be to make a 2.1 or 2.2L. 

then i hear about this oil squirter issue, i thought the AEG had oil squirters. i just read that pete from IE doesnt reccomend the swap because the lack of the squirters. 
what are people doing about this ? anything ? what happens if i use the aeg block with out them. 

GT3076 around 28 PSI. (High RPM - 9k) 
or would i use a AVH, AZG, BGD block, they had oil squirters right ? 
i need it to be somewhat realiable


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

1999.5GTIVR6 said:


> building a DD and have been planning it for months now, was planning on swapping blocks and upgrading rods and pistons.
> 
> came on here to see if anyone has used a TDI crank in an AEG hoping to see how easy it would be to make a 2.1 or 2.2L.
> 
> ...


 Do you have a 1.8T block?


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

Issam Abed said:


> Do you have a 1.8T block?


 yeah, its going into a 2002 awp car


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

1999.5GTIVR6 said:


> yeah, its going into a 2002 awp car


 Then use that block with the AEG crankshaft


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## 1999.5GTIVR6 (Jun 15, 2011)

Issam Abed said:


> Then use that block with the AEG crankshaft


 my 1.8 block has a mount sheererd off the back, aswell i would rather not bore out the 1.8 to much (im also DDing it)


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

1999.5GTIVR6 said:


> my 1.8 block has a mount sheererd off the back, aswell i would rather not bore out the 1.8 to much (im also DDing it)


 There is no difference between a 1.8T and 2.0 block... 
one has an M14 tap @ the rear and is 81mm bore and the other has no M14 tap and is 82.5mm bore. 
You can safely take either block to 83mm's. 
That being said , I have a whole bunch of 82.5mm bore blocks that are brand new. Send over a PM for further details.:thumbup:


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

Do you sell a parts kit for this (minus management)? I already have an AEB head and can easily get an obd1 bottom end.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

harlequin80 said:


> Do you sell a parts kit for this (minus management)? I already have an AEB head and can easily get an obd1 bottom end.


since the creation of this thread I have sort of "modified" the advice I give people. Are you running digifant 1 or going straight to standalone?


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

The motor is goin into my harlequin so I'm guessing standalone?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

harlequin80 said:


> The motor is goin into my harlequin so I'm guessing standalone?


Then stay away from the ABA blocks. No real benefit to having them with 06A motors becoming so readily available.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Issam Abed said:


> Then stay away from the ABA blocks. No real benefit to having them with 06A motors becoming so readily available.


Gotta disagree with you there. While it is more work to build a 20/20 with an ABA the long rod/ tall deck bottom end has it's advantages. The biggest advantage is torque. Tons and tons of torque.


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

I have a complete AEB motor. Someone said that I could run the motronic system on the 20v hybrid. What are the benefits/downsides to that? I know it is possible to wire the AEB motor into the factory mk3 system so I'm guessing there isn't much difference if it's NA vs FI


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

harlequin80 said:


> I have a complete AEB motor. Someone said that I could run the motronic system on the 20v hybrid. What are the benefits/downsides to that? I know it is possible to wire the AEB motor into the factory mk3 system so I'm guessing there isn't much difference if it's NA vs FI


Just about anything can be done with enough time, patience, and cash. The question is, is it worth it? In my opinion NO. Standalone is very much the way to go. It can be done quite inexpensively and if you decide to make change to the motor once it's in (big turbo, cams, injectors, etc....) you don't have to get the ECU reflashed.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Prof315 said:


> Gotta disagree with you there. While it is more work to build a 20/20 with an ABA the long rod/ tall deck bottom end has it's advantages. The biggest advantage is torque. Tons and tons of torque.


...and the amount of work needed to do an ABA block he might as well do an ALH block and be done with it.
Unless you are running digifant-I or another block mounted distributor system , there is no need to use any of the old 827 blocks. 
06A is the future , has been for sometime now.:thumbup:


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

So what is the ideal setup to use to throw it in a mk3 chassis? I have an 058 block that I was going to use when I wanted a BT 1.8T.

Also where can I find ITB's ?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

harlequin80 said:


> So what is the ideal setup to use to throw it in a mk3 chassis? I have an 058 block that I was going to use when I wanted a BT 1.8T.
> 
> Also where can I find ITB's ?


MKIII + 058 = correct combination. No modifications needed to the AEB motor to make it fit in the MKIII chassis.
There was a guy on here selling a set of ITB's recently. Search and it should be the first hit.:thumbup:


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

I know you can use the AEB block as it uses the same mounts and stuff as the ABA block. So basically what you are saying is to just build the motor I have to be N/A instead of turbo.

I just sold off the rods I had for it 

I think Im going with the obd1 aba block anyways. Id still have to find a crank for the AEB motor and I can get a complete obd1 for less than a crank


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

harlequin80 said:


> I know you can use the AEB block as it uses the same mounts and stuff as the ABA block. So basically what you are saying is to just build the motor I have to be N/A instead of turbo.
> 
> I just sold off the rods I had for it
> 
> I think Im going with the obd1 aba block anyways. Id still have to find a crank for the AEB motor and I can get a complete obd1 for less than a crank


Why would it matter if you sold the rods? N/A motors do not need forged rods , just ARP hardware on them. Get an OBD-I ABA crankshaft and throw it in the AEB block. 

2.0 20V AEB


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## harlequin80 (Aug 28, 2011)

Because now I need rods again. 
What rods/pistons would I use with an ABA crankshaft? Are they direct fit into the AEB block no mods needed?


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

harlequin80 said:


> Because now I need rods again.
> What rods/pistons would I use with an ABA crankshaft? Are they direct fit into the AEB block no mods needed?


You will need to grind the inside of the crankcase of the block to clearance the full swing of the connecting rod (actually the connecting rod bolts) but yes it can be a direct fit into an AEB block.

ABA Crankshaft + 144/20mm connecting rods + Mahle 92.8mm stroke pistons + AEB block = 2008cc AEB motor.

I would only attempt this if you absolutely want to stay with the 827 motors.:thumbup:


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## wolfens_golf (Dec 30, 2009)

FIRST OFF....BUMP TO A GREAT THREAD. second id just like to say thanks for all the great advice. unfortunatly im noobish to the engine game so i do have some questions. yes i have read the majority of this thread but it can get alittle confusing.......on with the questions and my plans with the engine set up 

91 corrado g60 planning to 20valve head swap...keeping dizzy & gladder 

g60 block (PG) 
AEB cly head 
PG crank shaft(FORGED=BETTER) 
AEB cyl head studs 
AEB pistons & connecting rods 
ABA OBD1 head gasket 
AEB 20V camshat gear 
PL intermediate shaft 
AEB 20v gear(intermediate shaft) 
16v wires 
16v crankshaft pully 
16v timing belt tensioner 

honda preude timing belt 2.2 vtec 92-98 

is this list correct? would i need a 16v dizzy? 




also if i used a audi tt manifold what throttle cable do i need? 
raising the compression....can i plane the head..if so how much? 
i would require a chip for the digi 1? 
the gladder is getting rebuilt....would one run a stock pully to "break in" then move to the 68 mm? 

:beer: 
opcorn:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

wolfens_golf said:


> 91 corrado g60 planning to 20valve head swap...keeping dizzy & gladder
> 
> 
> g60 block (PG)
> ...


 Nice list but IMHO , if you starting with an AEB , it would be alot easier to just install the G60 distributor into the AEB block than trying to mix and match parts. 
That being said the answers to your questions: 
1. No , use the G60 one unless you want to run a distributor off the intake cam in the head using a reflex kit (you will need to find one) 
2. Regular MKII/MKIII unit should work depending on which throttle body you decide to use. 
3. 0.004" is the max I would go. Get proper pistons if you want to raise CR. 
4. Yes 
5. Sure all though this has no bearing on what cylinder head you use since your pulleys are still going to be turning at the same ratios.


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## wolfens_golf (Dec 30, 2009)

i didnt know i could use a aeb motor and convert it to a dizzy...lets say i went that route. 

would i keep that pg bracketry? 
what intermediate shaft and gear? 
id like to keep it supercharged.....but i think ive decided the m90 eaton with a small pully 
what type of belts do i use? 

i think the aeb bolts to the tranny mounted to pg...02c?? 


thanks for the help


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

wolfens_golf said:


> i didnt know i could use a aeb motor and convert it to a dizzy...lets say i went that route.
> 
> would i keep that pg bracketry?
> what intermediate shaft and gear?
> ...


 You would still use the G60 charger accessory bracket but not the rear support that bolts to the crankcase of the block. The AEB follows the same format as the ABA & 9A motors in terms of crankcase breather foot print. You CAN bolt the rear charger support bracket to the AEB block but there will be gaps in the crankcase breather. You will need to take the rear charger support to a machine shop and have them mill off 6.35mm (1/4") off the portion that bolt to the block. Get 1/4" aluminum plate machined to contoured that of the crankcase breather and bolt the 2 together. If you have the means to do so then weld them and have the plate machined flush. I once offered this as a service but no longer do it. You can see images back in the beginning of the thread. 

Use the G60 IM shaft and & distributor. 
Belts - you will need to figure that out yourself depending on lengths and such. 
Any VW 4 cylinder motor will bolt up to the 02C:thumbup:


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## wolfens_golf (Dec 30, 2009)

your a champ! thanks a million...without ppl like you the vortex would be garbage. 

thanks so much. im sure ill have more questions down the road but for now...im good. thanks again


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## wolfens_golf (Dec 30, 2009)

ok...sorry one more question...if i go with the aeb motor to simplify things what do i require if i buy the motor? 

all bolt on accesories? 
any wiring? rad and hoses? 

any help would be appreciated 

thanks dave


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

wolfens_golf said:


> ok...sorry one more question...if i go with the aeb motor to simplify things what do i require if i buy the motor?
> 
> all bolt on accesories?
> any wiring? rad and hoses?
> ...


 Dave, 
I mean this in the nicest way possible. If you have to ask these basic questions then you are in over your head. It goes without saying that anyone attempting to do this hybrid has very basic understanding of how a G60 & AEB motor are configured.


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## wolfens_golf (Dec 30, 2009)

i see understand what you mean. im am inexperienced with the aeb motor...i was just set on swapping over all these 20v & 16v parts over to the pg block. most parts would seem like bolt. thats why id like to stay digi 1 to keep it simple. now theres another option to configure the aeb motor with a dizzy....i guess im just going to have to read more on the aeb motor. 

thanks anyway:thumbup:


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## t_red_trek (Nov 14, 2010)

I just recently picked up a built 20/20:

AEB large port head
ABA OBDI block.

All work is done and motor built/primed. Now its on to the smaller
things, and compiling my turbo set-up, which I am still researching
and learning about. not to mention the shopping part.

My question to you is, with this set up, which i got a BARGAIN on, I
am ultimately swapping it into my OBDII mk3 cabrio. What do you
recommend for management? If possible, can I swap sensors and run the
motor with the OBDII ECU and harness?

Like I said, I am new to this, but focussed on learning all that I can
to complete the swap and have a strong 20/20T motor.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

t_red_trek said:


> My question to you is, with this set up, which i got a BARGAIN on, I
> am ultimately swapping it into my OBDII mk3 cabrio. What do you
> recommend for management? If possible, can I swap sensors and run the
> motor with the OBDII ECU and harness?
> ...


I assume this is Kyle? :thumbup:

In order to get an ABA distributor onto an AEB motor you will need to either mount the distributor on the head where the camshaft position sensor was (classifieds they pop up every now and again) or do the Intermediate shaft conversion.A few people have run an AEB on OBD-II ABA harness & ECU but in the end you are better off going with a standalone system. 
By the time you factor in the cost for the distributor conversion and that of a chip (no way you can make the AEB run right on stock ABA software) you are in the range of a pretty decent standalone system.


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## OutGolfin (May 23, 2012)

I would do this. But there is one little 5 letter word that keeps pretty much everyone make or break a project.

Anyone who knows the word gets +5 internets.:thumbup:


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## juststarted (Apr 14, 2003)

Money.... 

Issam, did you buy all the 1.8ts that went on sale the a little while ago? If so I am in need of one... PM me if so...


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

juststarted said:


> Money....
> 
> Issam, did you buy all the 1.8ts that went on sale the a little while ago? If so I am in need of one... PM me if so...


which ones? AEB or 06A?


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## juststarted (Apr 14, 2003)

06A. I bought a commuter 20th, guy said low mile per hour t-belt break, not the case.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

juststarted said:


> 06A. I bought a commuter 20th, guy said low mile per hour t-belt break, not the case.


Ouch
all the 06A motors I broke down. What do you need exactly?


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## Kyle_Shepard (Dec 2, 2012)

*ABA dist. block off*

To Issam: 

Hey it's Kyle from a few posts back... 
I decided to go standalone :thumbup: (most likely MSIII) 

Now I just need to find the rite distributor block-off plate. 

The only thing I can find is specified for mk1 16v (tho idk what the head type has to do w/ it  ) 

If you have any DIY ideas or know where I can pick one up I'd really like to know!


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## Ra9chelle (Dec 12, 2012)

Make sure you use an ABA 4-Layer Metal Headgasket to ensure proper sealing


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Kyle_Shepard said:


> To Issam:
> 
> Hey it's Kyle from a few posts back...
> I decided to go standalone :thumbup: (most likely MSIII)
> ...


What block are you going to use?


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## Kyle_Shepard (Dec 2, 2012)

*I'm stuck!...in several areas*

As the motor sits on the stand: 

Aba obd1 block
AEB head (large port)

My current dilemma is finding a dizzy cap that clears the head:
I've been told by 'vwpat' that this particular Fiat cap will do the job-

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=200852016099&index=1&nav=SEARCH&nid=74081586193

Also, I am having issues seperating the v belt pulley from the crank pulley to properly machine it. :banghead: 'sdezego' has given me several pointers on top of what I've already tried and the damn thing STILL won't budge....just my luck
...any ideas on where I can find one or what else to do??

.....and one last thing ...I have the breather lock off plate all mounted. How can I plug the other hole where the plastic breather housing connects? Sorry for the pile of q's


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Kyle_Shepard said:


> My current dilemma is finding a dizzy cap that clears the head:


The Saab one works even with the 220mm block.
As for v-belt. Just get an ABA set up


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## bambam08 (Feb 10, 2009)

ugh even after reading all the post in here im hella confused as to if i do or dont have to clearance my pistons in my aba obd1 block


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## rains (May 30, 2008)

fantastic thread.

Makes me think ... I have a complete AEB head in the garage ... AEG blocks are easy to come by, a hybrid motor would be a fun project!


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

for the guys who did all the work to get an ABA block to work with a 20v head..... how do you like the motor now that its running?...... i was cleaning around my storage unit and found i have a good ABA motor and 20v head that i would like to make use of. this type of setup was the first thing to pop into my head.

:beer:


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

carsluTT said:


> for the guys who did all the work to get an ABA block to work with a 20v head..... how do you like the motor now that its running?...... i was cleaning around my storage unit and found i have a good ABA motor and 20v head that i would like to make use of. this type of setup was the first thing to pop into my head.
> 
> :beer:


If I had to go back in time and I was using a 236mm block for the hybrid , I would have started with an ALH or similar. The only time I ever recommend using an ABA or similar is if I want to retain the G60 and even then some 9 years later we can machine brackets for the charger to fit on newer blocks.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

would using these parts make the ABA block seem like an easy to deal with starting point?......

ABA block/crank

whatever pistons

upgraded rods?

AMU 20v head (yean AEB would be cool but i dont have one so this will have to do)

mega squirt fuel/spark control

fire!!.... i mean.... :beer:

ive got a few intakes/exhaust manifolds and turbos to play with among other random leftover parts from past projects. this is sort of a massive recycling project. but if the aba as a base starting point is going to cost much or be a pain ill just have a yard sale and get a real 20v motor and go from there. 

im thinking the lack of need to keep any type of stock injection makes the ABA block easier to use. 

this is going to be a motor for a car that doesn't get a smog check so ive got a bit of freedom to play with. 

thanks


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

carsluTT said:


> would using these parts make the ABA block seem like an easy to deal with starting point?......
> 
> ABA block/crank
> 
> ...


Depends what your end goal is. I hate dealing with the IM shaft so if you are doing this to run the motor on Digi-I or similar then sure otherwise stay 06A.


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## carsluTT (Dec 31, 2004)

don't plan to use any stock injection or ignition. will do fuel and spark management with a mega squirt MS3X ecu. 

the more i have scanned this epic thread and it seems im skipping a lot of the drama mixed into this swap by using non oem management. 

thanks for all the great detailed info


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## petethepug (May 25, 2001)

I remember the pulley configuration nightmare from this motor since it retains the a/c . Just saw a new compressor from a Golf Sportwagen. Dual pulley on the a/c clutch. It's a direct mount compressor but the pulley may have some use for future builds.


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## HellrazrGLI (Mar 21, 2014)

So i currently have a 3A block with a 8v wanting to go to a 20v head and turbo setup anyone have a parts list for doing a swap plus tips


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

petethepug said:


> I remember the pulley configuration nightmare from this motor since it retains the a/c . Just saw a new compressor from a Golf Sportwagen. Dual pulley on the a/c clutch. It's a direct mount compressor but the pulley may have some use for future builds.


Meanwhile 2.5 rabbit guys are trying to go single pulley.


HellrazrGLI said:


> So i currently have a 3A block with a 8v wanting to go to a 20v head and turbo setup anyone have a parts list for doing a swap plus tips


Just get an AEB long block. When I started this thread back in 2004 AEB's (and 1.8T's in general) were in the $2000+ range. Now they can be had for less than $500. 
Get an extra 16V 9A or AEB camshaft gear , put it on the IM shaft and run your distributor as normal assuming the distributor can fit in the distributor channel in the AEB block.
You will thank me later.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

It fits. I have an AEB with an ABA dizzy in it in my shop.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

vwpat said:


> It fits. I have an AEB with an ABA dizzy in it in my shop.


The above was is in reference to the 3A distributor. It has been a while so I do not recall what distributor/im shaft gear set up the 3A follows.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

Issam Abed said:


> The above was is in reference to the 3A distributor. It has been a while so I do not recall what distributor/im shaft gear set up the 3A follows.


same, main difference is 3A is 4 window while ABA is single window.


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

I am piecing together a 20v ABA setup from the two cars I currently have, and am looking to get my parts list looked over just to be sure I'm doing it right. 
I have a rwd b5 That I just put some new holes in the block due to cyl 3 rod letting go, and a stock MK3.5 Cabrio ( what the engine will be going into.) 

Management- stock AEB M5.9 Ecu running maestro

Head- stock AEB head

Block- honed OBD2 ABA (yes I know it's not preferred) 

Pistons-OEM 30v AHA pistons (82.5mm bore, 21mm wrist pins) which will put me at 11:1 comp ratio so something would need to be figure out to lower that. or just may use stock ABA pistons, since they WILL clear the valves just fine.

Rods- IE RODS


Timing- From what I understand, seeing as I am getting rid of the distributor, I can just use this gear from USRT http://www.usrallyteam.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_154_52&products_id=1928 and just run the ABA I/M shaft. 
Alternatively, this thread has the OP stating that he used the AEB shaft and gear http://foro.tuning-on.com/custom-cars/audi-a4-(swap-aba)/?PHPSESSID=q2fjump6359b05k5as6j46l4h6 and then using the 157t belt. 

Accessories- I would just convert to a serpentine setup, as I already have the appropriate vr6 water pump pulley from my b5 as I had deleted p/s and a/c, and would be doing the same in the Cabrio. 

I know that there are a bunch of odds and ends that would also need to be addressed like oil and coolant feeds and drains for the turbo and oil pan and stuff, just trying to get the hard stuff figured out first. 

Input is very appreciated, that's the whole point of my post. This is a "budget" build, but that doesn't mean I'm trying to cut corners, as I don't need to window another block anytime soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

garytightpants said:


> Block- honed OBD2 ABA (yes I know it's not preferred)


There is a reason for it. I know you want to use the ABA block to get the 236mm deck height but look at the costs associated with what you are doing/plan to do.

filling and decking AEB head to delete & modify rear oil channels 
custom engine mount brackets as ABA unlike ABK/ABF does not have the 4 bolt set up on the intake side so you will need a driver side (LHD) engine mount bracket from Europe
Machining IM shaft snout to accept 16V/AEB IM shaft gear 

If it was me , I would go the ALH block route. You don't have the IM shaft crap and you can get an oil pan + Engine mount brackets for under $100.



garytightpants said:


> Pistons-OEM 30v AHA pistons (82.5mm bore, 21mm wrist pins) which will put me at 11:1 comp ratio so something would need to be figure out to lower that. or just may use stock ABA pistons, since they WILL clear the valves just fine.


Let us do the math since the 2.7TT/2.8 30V have a compression height of 30.8mm

92.8mm stroke / 2 = 46.4mm
Deck Height = 236mm
Connecting rod length = 236 - (46.4 + 30.8) = 158.8mm

With a 159/21mm connecting rod , those pistons will sit 0.2mm above deck. Not only will you have valve contact but you will also also be using the wrong kind of OEM piston. I would sooner take 2.7TT units and machine them down before using the weaker 2.8 units. Using stock ABA pistons is not an option....



garytightpants said:


> Timing- From what I understand, seeing as I am getting rid of the distributor, I can just use this gear from USRT] and just run the ABA I/M shaft.
> Alternatively, this thread has the OP stating that he used the AEB shaft and gear and then using the 157t belt.


Just machine the IM shaft snout on the ABA to accept the AEB IM Shaft gear.

HTH


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

Issam Abed said:


> There is a reason for it. I know you want to use the ABA block to get the 236mm deck height but look at the costs associated with what you are doing/plan to do.
> 
> filling and decking AEB head to delete & modify rear oil channels
> custom engine mount brackets as ABA unlike ABK/ABF does not have the 4 bolt set up on the intake side so you will need a driver side (LHD) engine mount bracket from Europe
> ...


I guess I was just being hopeful that the 2.8 pistons would work. But this is why I posted here. 

As for the engine mount, the plan is for the engine to reside in the Cabrio, so I don't see any issue with mounts. 

I would go the ALH route, but I am trying to work with as much of what I already have. 

As for the I/M shaft gear, I guess I'll just have my boy who machines parts for AR-15's do the machine work. Same for the head. 

I don't quite understand why the ABA pistons are a no-go. I know that the squish area and stuff isn't ideal for F/I, but I don't see why they would hit the valves. Should the valves be closed when the piston is at the top anyways?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

garytightpants said:


> As for the engine mount, the plan is for the engine to reside in the Cabrio, so I don't see any issue with mounts.


Cabrio as in MK1 or Cabrio as in Audi 80? If MK1 then yes I can see your point.


garytightpants said:


> I would go the ALH route, but I am trying to work with as much of what I already have.
> And that is where the flaw lies in most projects. Working with what you have and spending $$$ trying to make what you have work rather than selling what you have and starting over with what works.





garytightpants said:


> I don't quite understand why the ABA pistons are a no-go. I know that the squish area and stuff isn't ideal for F/I, but I don't see why they would hit the valves. Should the valves be closed when the piston is at the top anyways?


- ABA pistons are weak
- ABA pistons don't have the right piston dish CC to yield the CR desired
- ABA pistons require machining to clearance the middle intake valve

I would sooner try to make a 2.7TT piston work vs an ABA unit but then you would need an 81mm on the bore.
It is your project and entirely up to you but I would not waste time assembling a motor with new gaskets , new rings , new bearings only to use pistons that did not work.


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## garytightpants (Jun 14, 2010)

Cabrio as in MK3.5

And I see what you are saying about the pistons. 

Anyone know who makes 82.5mm pistons with 20mm wrist pins?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

garytightpants said:


> Cabrio as in MK3.5
> 
> And I see what you are saying about the pistons.
> 
> Anyone know who makes 82.5mm pistons with 20mm wrist pins?


JE / CP / Mahle / etc.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Minor update:
VW PART # : *037 121 030 A* is now NLA. 

This is the water pump pulley for the Corrado / Passat G60 Non-AC where the water pump runs on the same serpentine belt as the G60 charger & Alternator. If you want to run a ribbed pulley on the water pump , there was no other option but :

finding a used one (rusted out)
using a smoothe OBD-1 VR6 unit and flipping it around
using a MK4 P/S pulley and correcting the offset to bring the ribs all into the same plane.
The issue with the OBD-1 VR6 water pump pulleys is on belts that have a long travel (ABA / AFN / etc) is the belt falls off and the MK4 unit is stamped steel.
:thumbdown:

So , we found one in Germany NOS and imported it. The list price was astronomical in comparison to other stampled steel VW pulley parts , however , Volkswagen can keep the NLA/NOS parts as these are now recreated in T6061  

















and are available from [email protected]
http://www.eaaengineering.com/serpentine-belt-conversion-kits-pulleys/

:thumbup:


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## Migueljetta16V (Jul 21, 2015)

*16v head on aeg*

I have a golf aeg motor and I want to put a 16v head on it with a turbo what I have to do. I had this head with turbo on my aba mk3 just wanted to know if someone can help me out thanks


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

Migueljetta16V said:


> I have a golf aeg motor and I want to put a 16v head on it with a turbo what I have to do. I had this head with turbo on my aba mk3 just wanted to know if someone can help me out thanks


This isn't the thread to discuss 16V swaps. Use the other thread (all be it a late response).

*Update:*
https://www.instagram.com/p/BKzM9GaD8Au/
When Jason (Twinscrew20V) wanted to find a home for his project , it was only natural it made it's way into my "museum". As a wise VW enthusiast once said :

"projects don't die , they just become someone else's headache"


Extra Update:
Been building a 20V G65 and a local customer decided to hop onto the 20V G60 train. It is going to be fun seeing all these unique projects come to light. If you want power , then go swap a 1.8T in and have a great day. If you want a project then this is a great start to mondernizing your 8V G60.


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## northendroid (Sep 16, 2014)

Issam Abed said:


> *Update:*
> https://www.instagram.com/p/BKzM9GaD8Au/
> When Jason (Twinscrew20V) wanted to find a home for his project , it was only natural it made it's way into my "museum". As a wise VW enthusiast once said :
> 
> ...


Your right I've certainly boarded that train  So Santa came early this year and got me a standalone ECU for the 20V G60 build, few things I need to figure out one is the air intake I've read that the Eurospec air intake has the throttle body on the left side is that correct, does it have a port for IAT or is there an IAT sensor already in it? Any mod to this air intake for it fit with the G60 (spacers)? Throttle body with TPS the Passat G60 Syncro with automatic transmission has a TPS? What type of idling system would be used on this setup (stepper motor, etc.). I also found picture of the rear G-ladder support bracket mod on Shawn DeZego build blog I understand what needs to be done to it. I'm glad now that I got the AEB block from you, cylinder 4 conrod bearing went MIA and was why it had a knock, crank is toast as well.

http://vid1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff512/xbox360guru/1991 Corrado/IMG_0733.mp4


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

northendroid said:


> 1. I've read that the Eurospec air intake has the throttle body on the left side is that correct,
> 2. does it have a port for IAT or is there an IAT sensor already in it?
> 3. Any mod to this air intake for it fit with the G60 (spacers)?
> 4, Throttle body with TPS the Passat G60 Syncro with automatic transmission has a TPS?
> ...



We get them here as well. Audi TT 225 bhp in North America got the driver side throttle body.
It does yes , perfect if you are using standalone
A 6mm spacer will clear the G60 supercharger depending on which intake manifold you get. Typically we just use a phenolic spacer to pick up the slack instead of an Aluminum spacer
If you are deleting the G60 return then you can get away with using an OBD-1 ABA throttle body. It has the same 60mm x 60mm throttle body bolt pattern as the 1.8T manifold and has a 3-PIN Bosch TPS on it.
Regular 2-PIN Bosch ISV that can be controlled with your standalone PMW output
:thumbup: Shawn is a great resource on this project as well.
That is a bummer. At least you have a new crankshaft now


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## northendroid (Sep 16, 2014)

Issam Abed said:


> We get them here as well. Audi TT 225 bhp in North America got the driver side throttle body.
> A 6mm spacer will clear the G60 supercharger depending on which intake manifold you get. Typically we just use a phenolic spacer to pick up the slack instead of an Aluminum spacer
> If you are deleting the G60 return then you can get away with using an OBD-1 ABA throttle body. It has the same 60mm x 60mm throttle body bolt pattern as the 1.8T manifold and has a 3-PIN Bosch TPS on it.


Found an AMU intake, can the AEB fuel rail,injector and 4bar fuel regulator be used with this intake?


Throttle body came with phenolic transition spacer and small port metal gasket missing the big port gasket but no big deal

This is what I'm looking for right? 2.0L in Jettas/Golfs?


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

Yes, that TB will bolt on (2L ABA OBD1).

As far as the Fuel Rail, I am not sure. It depends on what gen injectors the AMU used (or what injectors you use). Short vs long. Either way, it can be made to work, but you might want to use a different Fuel rail anyway (i.e. 20v transverse engine rail) so that the Fuel lines are both pointing to pass side. FPR are all interchangeable.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

northendroid said:


> Found an AMU intake, can the AEB fuel rail,injector and 4bar fuel regulator be used with this intake?


It can but not sure why you would want to run the AEB fuel rail? It has the feed fittings pointing towards the flywheel (gearbox side). If you need a 1.8T fuel rail I have a bunch and as Shawn mentioned , FPR's are interchangeable.


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## northendroid (Sep 16, 2014)

Issam Abed said:


> It can but not sure why you would want to run the AEB fuel rail? It has the feed fittings pointing towards the flywheel (gearbox side). If you need a 1.8T fuel rail I have a bunch and as Shawn mentioned , FPR's are interchangeable.


My mistake thougth that this was the stock AEB fuel rail, obviously not! I'll pick one up from you.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

That is a transverse 20v fuel rail and the one you want. The AEB is round and as mentioned the fuel fittings face the trans.


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## _Val (Jan 5, 2007)

Anyone here who used Audi A4 B6 2.0 20v nonturbo aluminum block with 1.8T head and custom pistons? 
That would delete problem with 3 missing oil returns.


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

_Val said:


> Anyone here who used Audi A4 B6 2.0 20v nonturbo aluminum block with 1.8T head and custom pistons?
> That would delete problem with 3 missing oil returns.


Some have but N/A so no need for custom Pistons. Any O6X block has the three extra oil returns.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

_Val said:


> Anyone here who used Audi A4 B6 2.0 20v nonturbo aluminum block with 1.8T head and custom pistons?
> That would delete problem with 3 missing oil returns.


That is an 06D block. This is for VW827 and older generations.
Ironically I have made a bracket that allows the use of a G60 on the 06A accessory bracket (which will also work on the 06D) :screwy:


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## Kapfi (Jun 8, 2012)

15 years ago I was inspired by this thread. It was a childhood dream. I started the conversion two years ago and have now finished it. A 20VG65 in a Golf 1 with Digifant injection. 238 hp with 98 octane petrol. Greetings from Munich, Germany.


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## Butcher (Jan 31, 2001)

That is one busy engine compartment.


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