# Driver's heated cooled seat not working



## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

2008 phaeton - noticed that the heated seat doesn't work (don't know how long its been going on for but with the colder weather I need it and it's not there)
VCDS doesn't show up any faults
also noticed the cooled seat function doesn't work either. passenger side works fine for both heating and cooling. 
fuses seem ok although i honestly couldn't figure out the map that's on another post. but all the fuses that need to be filled are filled and they aren't broken.

drivers memory works fine
seat position motors are all working ok
massage works fine

any ideas where the fault might be? or how to investigate :banghead::banghead:


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## keith252 (Jun 25, 2013)

abooaaishah said:


> 2008 phaeton - noticed that the heated seat doesn't work (don't know how long its been going on for but with the colder weather I need it and it's not there)
> VCDS doesn't show up any faults
> also noticed the cooled seat function doesn't work either. passenger side works fine for both heating and cooling.
> fuses seem ok although i honestly couldn't figure out the map that's on another post. but all the fuses that need to be filled are filled and they aren't broken.
> ...


Hi, I've waited to see if any of the experts have suggested anything before adding some comments,

There are two power feeds to the seat controller, one does the movement, the other the heating, it may do the ventilation as well so you might have a blown fuse, check SB87 (10th one in from the left, second row from the bottom in the fusebox under the dash). It's slso possible the wiring under the seat has been kicked at some time, one of the plugs may have been knocked partially out. 

The seat back and the cushion have separate elements, if neither are working it looks like wiring as it's unlikely both elements have failed. There is a temperature sensor, you can check that with VCDS, as can the rotary switch, you havent had any work done on the console that might have caused the switch wiring to be knocked loose ? 

K


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Just how effective is the seat cooling? I don't feel any cooling whatsoever. I could hear the fan blowing on the passenger seat if I listened really close, but could feel no air blowing. 

-Eric


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## keith252 (Jun 25, 2013)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Just how effective is the seat cooling? I don't feel any cooling whatsoever. I could hear the fan blowing on the passenger seat if I listened really close, but could feel no air blowing.
> 
> -Eric


To be honest it's not brilliant, There is no peltier on the diagrams and it doesn't seem to have a connection to the climate control plumbing. I'd never come across cooled seats before I bought a Phaeton, they were a bit of a (pleasant) surpise on my way home that day. On a hot day I can feel it, but it's not great, doesn't keep you cool when you're stuck on the M25. I'm in the middle of fitting heated/ventilated back seats from a W12 into my V6, there are a lot of fans in the base and the back so hopefully they will work well, we'll see.
K


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

There's no actual cooling in the seats, all the cooling function does is to blow ambient air from underneath. Having said that, mine work very well, even in the 100 degree summers we have.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> There's no actual cooling in the seats, all the cooling function does is to blow ambient air from underneath. Having said that, mine work very well, even in the 100 degree summers we have.


Thanks. I couldn't feel any cooling this summer in UT in either of my Phaetons. I usually turn off the rear vents to maximize front cooling and tried turning rear cooling back on (or just not turning it off) and also tried turning on the lower vents. I could feel the cooling on my feet and out the rear vents, but never anything from any of the seats.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

keith252 said:


> To be honest it's not brilliant, There is no peltier on the diagrams and it doesn't seem to have a connection to the climate control plumbing. I'd never come across cooled seats before I bought a Phaeton, they were a bit of a (pleasant) surpise on my way home that day. On a hot day I can feel it, but it's not great, doesn't keep you cool when you're stuck on the M25. I'm in the middle of fitting heated/ventilated back seats from a W12 into my V6, there are a lot of fans in the base and the back so hopefully they will work well, we'll see.
> K


Thanks. Maybe the pores in my seats are clogged with leather cleaner or something.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

I just looked at the wiring diagram in my Bentley. It only goes to 2006 so it might be wrong, but here goes:

There are two fuses that go to the J136 Controller. They are SC9 and SB87. There is also a thermofuse SE3. Don't bother checking them because J136 controls all functions of both front seats and the adjustments of the steering column.

On the other hand, there is a connector #5 for both the fan and the temperature sensor of the left seat. There is also a connector 3 for the backrest.

According to the Bentley, the right passenger seat uses controller J521 with fuses SE4 & SB88. J521 only controls the passenger seat. It still controls more than just the heating and cooling, so don't worry about the fuses. I have no idea if these controllers switch sides (L<->R) for Right Hand Drive cars.

For the right passenger seat, it's still connection 5 for both heat and blower. Again, there is a connector 3 for the backrest.

I would check to see if a connector is unplugged or cut off under the seat.

Good luck.

-Eric

EDIT- Actually, the single point of failure is the switch or the wiring to the switch. That's the only thing that would cause the seat heat and cooling to not work on both the seat bottom and the backrest. Also, I just noticed the heaters for the bolsters use other connectors.

I guess it is possible the seat was removed at some point and somebody unplugged a bunch of connectors.


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## Pankracy666 (Sep 12, 2016)

Hello Guys is anyone solved this problem ?

I have got the same problem. Drivers seat heating and cooling not working.... massage and controll works greate. 

Fuses are OK, cables are mounted correctly. Maybe controller of comfort is dead ?

What now ?


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## Pankracy666 (Sep 12, 2016)

Hello is anyone solved this problem ?

Is it possible that module is dead ?:


https://www.google.pl/search?q=3D09...ved=0ahUKEwjw_6mK0p3PAhUKkSwKHYQuDuMQ_AUIBygC


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## HunterST (Dec 11, 2008)

For the heater, it's possible that the wire mat inside the seat is broken, which would prevent the heater from working. Not sure how you would test this though - perhaps with a VCDS scan? Article here from a tint expert warns that kneeling on the back seats during the tint process can damage the wire mats.

As others have stated, the "cooling" is in fact just a fan drawing air down (I think) through the perforated seats. Yes, leather conditioner can clog the holes - I've spent 30 minutes with a toothpick opening mine back up again once or twice - I love this feature during the summer here in Texas. I can hear the cooling fan blowing when it's on - one fan in each front seat. You may need to listen down near the floor in the back seat to hear them.


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## Cryptopal (Apr 6, 2011)

*Seat Fan Malfunction?*

My front passenger seat fan runs with the ignition off. It's still running after an hour parked. Any thoughts?
Thanks


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## Cryptopal (Apr 6, 2011)

OK, does the seat fan come on when you open the door and then shut off after a time? I am having a drama here.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm pretty sure it stops when the ignition is turned off.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Cryptopal said:


> OK, does the seat fan come on when you open the door and then shut off after a time? I am having a drama here.


The Infotianment starts up as soon as you open the driver's door. I have noticed that I don't even have to have the key with me.

It stays on unless you click the door lock button on the passenger door. It may also shut off if you click the lock button on the driver's door but I'm not sure about that.

It's supposed to shut off after a certain amount of time, but may not. The HVAC is controlled by the climate menu on the Infotainment. The seat heaters and cooler fans are probably connected to the Infotainment. 

Since I don't notice any seat cooling at all on either of my Phaetons I have never noticed if my seat fans were still on later. The next time I open my passenger door I will do it with the emergency key. 

The easy solution is just to turn the knob to the off position if it bothers you and especially if it runs the AGM battery down. 

My seat fan switch is on max cool in the vain hope that I will notice something and it hasn't killed the battery yet. I do know that a flashlight charging in the lighter socket will kill the battery. 

It's possible that it isn't really running for an hour, but you think it's still running because you open the driver's door. Try opening the passenger door without your key or with a dummy key that only opens the lock. 

-Eric


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

revisited this problem

VCDS showing 01892 - seat backrest temperature sensor (g371) 010 open or short to plus

how do you get to this thing?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> revisited this problem
> 
> VCDS showing 01892 - seat backrest temperature sensor (g371) 010 open or short to plus
> 
> how do you get to this thing?


If the sensor is co-located with the heating element, it's probably in the seat cover. Maybe VW has a repair kit for it so you don't have to buy a whole new cover to get seat heating. 

The heating element is built in to the seatback cover. It probably plugs into the controller under the seat.

Item 52 is the heating element but it says "not for this model, use item 53":

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/phaeton/phae/2008-631/8/881-881050/


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

fantastic pic and website! excellent!!
have you taken the leather covers off yourself
any 'how to' guides?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> fantastic pic and website! excellent!!
> have you taken the leather covers off yourself
> any 'how to' guides?


Somewhere in an old thread (maybe in the Table of Contents), Michael (Paneuropean) opined that the Sensitive leather could not be removed without it tearing. I think he was talking about how the sensitive leather was so soft it wouldn't survive removal. I think he said the Vienna leather cover could be removed (in his opinion).

I could be mistaken. I'll try to find the thread. I think the thread was about the fancy leather used in the seats. Grey Fere or something like that. 

-Eric


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Found it:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5854152-Leather-seat-repair-replacement

Here's the one about the fancy leather. It's Poltrona-Frau:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?2640788-Phaeton-seat-leather


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

This eBay seller managed to remove one, but it's not perforated:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Phaeto...077181&hash=item466c7a7a40:g:0zkAAOSwR29ZEJvi

You can see the electrical cable hanging down from it. 

Here's a grey perforated one on the U.S. eBay site:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RH-Front-G...ash=item51e934a59d:g:hLAAAOSw9NdXqK6Z&vxp=mtr


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

thanks for those links
man im stuffed
i have the perforated leather! 
serious second thoughts about trying to take that off myself
anyone ever attacked the sensor from behind (from rear seat direction)? there must be a way right?



53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Found it:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5854152-Leather-seat-repair-replacement
> 
> ...


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Maybe this seller will ship to GB:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RH-Front...d=311875831656&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Maybe this seller will ship to GB:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RH-Front...d=311875831656&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042


Ok that's a great idea
I'm gonna see if I can get a second hand one on eBay
May sound like a silly question but I assume the left hand and right hand side are different parts right?
My phaeton driver seat is right hand side so can I pull the passenger seat from a left hand drive car?
Also is the upper backrest different in the 18 way seat compared to the 12 way? Or is that section the same?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> Ok that's a great idea
> I'm gonna see if I can get a second hand one on eBay
> May sound like a silly question but I assume the left hand and right hand side are different parts right?
> My phaeton driver seat is right hand side so can I pull the passenger seat from a left hand drive car?
> Also is the upper backrest different in the 18 way seat compared to the 12 way? Or is that section the same?


I think the better leather was on the 18 way but that might not necessarily be true. Unfortunately, I don't know if there's any way to tell for sure other than by the option code on the donor car. I don't know if I could feel the difference especially on a 14 year old seat. 

The airbag is on the outside cushion, so the sides are not interchangeable. You can pull the passenger side upper from a LHD car. The seat back leather covers are listed as left or right. The bases must be different because my right passenger seats don't have the movable knee support. 

I was thinking I could buy a driver's seat bottom from a RHD car to get the movable knee support for the passenger side. I just have too much other stuff to buy first.


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Maybe this seller will ship to GB:
> 
> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RH-Front...d=311875831656&_trksid=p2045573.c100033.m2042


He won't ship to UK
The search continues


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

it's actually cheaper to buy a whole second hand 18-way seat i reckon
anything i should know before buying one? i assume if its the whole seat its an easy straight swap


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## keith252 (Jun 25, 2013)

abooaaishah said:


> it's actually cheaper to buy a whole second hand 18-way seat i reckon
> anything i should know before buying one? i assume if its the whole seat its an easy straight swap


I have a pair of front seats from a GP0/GP1 W12 left over from a project. They are black leather and complete but I don't know if they work (they are not fully compatible with the canbus on my GP3 car so I can't test them easily). The general condition isn't bad. They are the ones with a separate lap and shoulder belt. £100.00 each if they are of any interest to you ?


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

keith252 said:


> I have a pair of front seats from a GP0/GP1 W12 left over from a project. They are black leather and complete but I don't know if they work (they are not fully compatible with the canbus on my GP3 car so I can't test them easily). The general condition isn't bad. They are the ones with a separate lap and shoulder belt. £100.00 each if they are of any interest to you ?


thats a very very kind offer!
but im after beige


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

The seat leather dropped off the U.S. VW parts site, but I noticed the heater element was there.

The part number is 3D0 963 557 T (AKA 3D0963557T) 

https://parts.vw.com/a/Volkswagen_2...1505_6009778/FRONT-SEAT-COMPONENTS/92355.html

I found it on the 7Zap parts website also:

https://volkswagen.7zap.com/en/rdw/phaeton/phae/2002-258/9/963-963000/

I don't know how hard it would be to replace. I don't know if you have to cut out the old heater element or just leave it there and stick this heating element in behind it. VW probably has a procedure. 

-Eric


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> The seat leather dropped off the U.S. VW parts site, but I noticed the heater element was there.
> 
> The part number is 3D0 963 557 T (AKA 3D0963557T)
> 
> ...


thanks for this info, i appreciate the help
im no expert with this stuff, willing to try things but this is way beyond me
i think i just need to find a new seat!

anyone know how much a phaeton seat (the whole seat) weighs? (for shipping purposes)


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> thanks for this info, i appreciate the help
> im no expert with this stuff, willing to try things but this is way beyond me
> i think i just need to find a new seat!
> 
> anyone know how much a phaeton seat (the whole seat) weighs? (for shipping purposes)


Any luck yet? 

I think a whole seat would be too heavy to ship across the pond. Just the back might be too expensive for shipping. If you could find one in The E.U. that might be do-able.


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Any luck yet?
> 
> I think a whole seat would be too heavy to ship across the pond. Just the back might be too expensive for shipping. If you could find one in The E.U. that might be do-able.


still working on it!
shipping is ridiculously expensive, making it unlikely that i'll fork out the money for it


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

i couldnt get hold of a suitable seat
shipping from europe was proving ridiculously complicated and expensive due to the size AND weight of the seat

i used VCDS to get a little more info

the temperature readings on the working (passenger seat) when i checked were 38.0 (base) and 42.0 (backrest)
on the drivers malfunctioning side they were 36.0 (base) and 6.0 (backrest)

at least the base temp sensor is still working. the buttons (dial) for heating and cooling are all working fine.

isnt there a clever way to bypass this broken circuit or broken sensor without ripping the leather apart?


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

is there a way to fiddle with the wiring of the seat so that the phaeton thinks the base temp sensor is the backrest sensor as well?
anyone have knowledge of the wiring needed if this might be possible?
just a thought


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

ok

so i bit the bullet and purchased a seat from the netherlands - 500 euros delivered. ouch
anyway its a nice condition seat in beige
interestingly the leather is different to the seats i have in my car - its softer and a texture more akin to the skin on the back of your knuckles rather than the smoother sandpaper like surface of the rest of my interior. it curls and gives much more easily.
ok so we changed the seat around and ran into my first problem - seat controls and seat memory and heating and cooling are all fine
but my electric steering wheel stopped working
and the memory buttons dont extend to the mirrors / steering wheel either. its just disconnected from the rest of the car
VCDS - module 36 (drivers seat) uncontactable. its not there
the steering wheel says no control module j136, as do the mirrors j543

hmm 

if the module is bust then why would the seat controls and seat memory all work?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> ok
> 
> so i bit the bullet and purchased a seat from the netherlands - 500 euros delivered. ouch
> anyway its a nice condition seat in beige
> ...


Do they drive on the left or right in the Netherlands? 

If they drive on the right, it probably has a passenger seat controller. 

The memory and controls are probably local and the other stuff depends on it being a driver's seat controller. 

My driver's seat (left seat) controllers are 3D0 959 760 B 

My passenger seat (right seat) controllers are 3D0 959 759 B


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Do they drive on the left or right in the Netherlands?
> 
> If they drive on the right, it probably has a passenger seat controller.
> 
> ...


aha! you must be right. this new seat is pulled from a left hand drive car. so my phaeton currently has 2 front passenger seats! that would explain why i cant connect to module 36 as there is no drivers module in the car. that would also explain why the steering controls dont work and the memory function doesnt extend to the rest of the car - why would a passenger seat control these things. makes sense. 

i must swap the old (drivers) control module back into this new (passenger) seat then. when i get some time!
lets hope its a straight swap
ill keep you posted........


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> aha! you must be right. this new seat is pulled from a left hand drive car. so my phaeton currently has 2 front passenger seats! that would explain why i cant connect to module 36 as there is no drivers module in the car. that would also explain why the steering controls dont work and the memory function doesnt extend to the rest of the car - why would a passenger seat control these things. makes sense.
> 
> i must swap the old (drivers) control module back into this new (passenger) seat then. when i get some time!
> lets hope its a straight swap
> ill keep you posted........



Hopefully it will work perfectly. 


I think your new seat has sensitive leather. You can really feel the difference?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Eric, you deserve the teacher's gold star for spotting the LHD/RHD thing.


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## ravenflies (Oct 31, 2013)

invisiblewave said:


> Eric, you deserve the teacher's gold star for spotting the LHD/RHD thing.


I agree and the controller for the driver seat should be the same on LHD and RHD. Specific RHD parts have as far as I have seen part number 3D*2* NNN NNN.

Lennart


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

After a bit of faffing around I got the controllers swapped over
You’re right. Everything now works fine. Thanks 

My drivers control module is 3d0 959 760CA
The passenger one removed 3d0 959 759CA

All because of a bust temperature sensor......

And yes I can feel the leather difference and see the difference but that’s because I have them side by side in the same car

I have now noticed that the vertical leather sheet in the door cards in my car are sensitive leather. And the door armrests are regular leather. That’s a good way to compare if you don’t have the seat. 

Maybe your cars are the same?

I’ll take some photos of the seats when I get a minute.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> After a bit of faffing around I got the controllers swapped over
> You’re right. Everything now works fine. Thanks
> 
> My drivers control module is 3d0 959 760CA
> ...


You're welcome. I am glad your seat works good now. 

I think the center console glove box cover on my 5 seaters with Sensitive leather seats is the rougher Vienna leather. Of course, I am comparing new glove box covers with well-worn seat leather. 

My doors have wood for the armrests. 

Does your new passenger (now driver's) seat have an adjustable knee extension thingy?


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## abooaaishah (Aug 6, 2012)

Yes I have the 18 way seats, with the thigh extension piece

Here are the two leathers:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WEedyJMspP1KiqR1A

I hope the link works


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

abooaaishah said:


> Yes I have the 18 way seats, with the thigh extension piece
> 
> Here are the two leathers:
> 
> ...


My two 2004 W12 Phaetons only have the 18 way seats for the driver's seat. 

Yes, the link works and shows the difference.


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