# TB: Camshaft Rattle when Engine Started (4.2 litre V8 only) - includes TB 15-06-01



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

VW has issued a TB (technical bulletin) with information about the camshaft on the 4.2 liter V8 engine. The gist of the TB is as follows:
_The camshaft adjustment is hydraulically actuated and controlled by the engine oil pressure. If the vehicle has been sitting, with the engine turned off for a period of time, the oil accumulation inside the camshaft adjusters partially bleeds off and the oil flows back into the oil sump.
To ensure an efficient camshaft adjustment after an engine cold start, the oil pressure inside the camshaft adjusters must be built up as quickly as possible. During this time a slight rattle or knocking noise may be audible. This noise is normal at engine start and will last until the oil pressure is fully reinstated._
I can't remember anyone ever mentioning this noise in our forum, probably because the Phaeton is so well insulated that we likely would not hear it. In any case, no action is necessary, the TB is for information purposes only.
Michael


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## heliflint (Apr 30, 2008)

*Re: TB: Camshaft Rattle when Engine Started (4.2 litre V8 only) - includes TB 15-06-01 (PanEuropean)*

This was an interesting post. Mainly because when I purchased the car and the dealer started it for me the first time to move it out of his used car showroom, it did that instantaneous rattle (I was standing outside the car) and almost considered not purchasing it for fear of a potential engine problem. Your explanation put me at ease. I have not heard the noise since then since I have driven it nearly every day.


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

*V8 Phaeton: Camshaft Chain Tensioner(s) or Camshaft Adjuster(s), Rattle or Knocking Noise*

I recently purchased an 06 V8 Phat with 66k, I love this car! However I have noticed that it makes a loud clicking/rattle at start up and take off. Once I am up over 5 mph it goes away, I took the car to the dealer yesterday and they said it was normal and showed me the service bulletin. That says its the camshaft chain linkage, and once the oil level rises it goes away, has anyone else experienced this? I do not think this should be normal for a vehicle of this caliber or price!


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

Anyone?


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## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

Only suggestion I could give you is to take it to a different dealer. That's not 'normal'...


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

trem816 said:


> I recently purchased an 06 V8 Phat with 66k, I love this car! However I have noticed that it makes a loud clicking/rattle at start up and take off. Once I am up over 5 mph it goes away, I took the car to the dealer yesterday and they said it was normal and showed me the service bulletin. That says its the camshaft chain linkage, and once the oil level rises it goes away, has anyone else experienced this? I do not think this should be normal for a vehicle of this caliber or price!


They are giving you the straight story. It is a known issue and as long as it quiets down and tensions the chain quickly after startup it is deemed acceptable by VW. I have on occasion had that same rattle and I certainly don't like it either. It sounds like a diesel tractor rather than a luxury sedan when it occurs. 

The chain tensioner is hydraulic and the oil seems to bleed off. When this happens the chain is loose and rattles. Once the tensioner is refilled with oil the chain is tight and the engine is quiet. I have been trying to figure out why the tensioner loses oil. Is it that the 10k oil service interval is too long? Is it that the viscosity of the recommended oil is too ligh?. 5W-40 is quite thin on the lower side. I have been changing my oil once per year, which in my case is about every 5-6k miles. I think this may have helped as the rattle rarely occurs now. I can live with the rattle if it only occurs after the car has sat for a prolonged period, as holding the oil pressure in the chain tensioner would become more difficult as the sit-time lengthened. However, unlike VW I could never consider the rattle as acceptable or normal if it occurred regularly on startup.

Hopefully your rattle problem is not too frequent.

Jim X


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## george777 (Feb 1, 2008)

I've never heard of this before... and I don't have this particular problem with my car(?) Weird...:what:


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

Thats exactly what I thought but he showed me the TSB and said others do the same thing, I do not want my car to sound like a diesel everytime I start it up!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

The relevant Technical Bulletin is provided below.

Michael


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## johnt26 (Dec 3, 2009)

I have had this issue on occasion too


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks Michael, my question is I have a 06 model and it is not listed on the TSB, also what can I do to make the noise disappear?


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## apper01 (Aug 14, 2010)

if it helps: mercedes has "had" a similiar issues with their valve tension adjusters (hydrostoessel) loosing oil pressure, when starting the engine a metallic rattle emerged from the rockers and camshaft which disappeared after a minute or so.

Now i drive a very big diesel, which makes the noise of two V5 TDI in one engine bay....

Aart.


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

There has to be something that I can do, it makes the sound everytime I start up the car, and it is my daily driver?


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

trem816 said:


> There has to be something that I can do, it makes the sound everytime I start up the car, and it is my daily driver?


My rattle only occurs infrequently and I can live with that. It would drive me nuts if I had to listen to that noise at every startup. I'd probably get rid of my Phaeton if I could not find a resolution. However, who would pay anything for it if it rattled at every startup. I doubt potential buyers would be very satified when you told that VW said it was normal. Sadly, I doubt that there is much you can do that will definitively eliminate it. VW even states in the TSB that replacement of the chain tensioner may not provide a solution. I assume that this is also a very expensive "possible solution." 

Do you know the service history on your car in terms of oil & filter changes? if you don't, I'd try increasing the frequency of the changes and see if that helps. Another thought I have had is to change to a different brand of oil than the 5W-40 Castrol Syntec used in NA Phaetons through VW dealerships. I don't claim to be an oil expert, but I understand that Castrol Syntec is not a "true" synthetic oil and can only claim this distiction in NA but not the rest of the world. The long-life oil that is available in the rest of the world is possibly a better oil. I think Amsoil has an oil that meets the VW 502 oil certification. If my chain tensioner rattled at every startup, I'd switch to another oil, but one that still met VW certification. 

Jim X


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

Ok, I am due for an oil change I will try the AMSOIL.


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

*Update*

I received my oil change with the AMSoil and I am still having the same issue the dealer says that this is normal and that they will not change the camshaft. What should I do?


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

Don't do anything. Both of mine do it too.


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

Really, how is that in any way normal all the money and tech put into this car it should not sound like a diesel truck everytime it starts!


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Castrol Syntec*



Jxander said:


> I understand that Castrol Syntec is not a "true" synthetic oil and can only claim this distiction in NA but not the rest of the world. The long-life oil that is available in the rest of the world is possibly a better oil.
> 
> Jim X


Jim, wonder if you could point me to the source of this information? I was not aware of this and I have always used Castrol Syntec for the Phaeton (and my dealer is using the same, except that they buy it in bulk: I personally saw the Castrol spec label and seal on the barrel). I have also always used Castrol (thouhg not Syntec) on all of my other cars for the past 40+ years, with excellent results.
Stefano


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

*Not Normal*



trem816 said:


> Really, how is that in any way normal all the money and tech put into this car it should not sound like a diesel truck everytime it starts!


Trem816, if this happens *every time* you start the car, it does not seem normal to me. In the almost six years that I have owned mine, I have only experienced this once, after almost three months of rest. I have also experienced a similar noise on another, non-VW, car recently: here too, the car had been sitting in the garage for almost 6 months. 

My guess is that the hydraulic tensioner's oil valve in your engine is worn and/or not operating properly, and releases the oil back into the sump almost immediately after the oil pump is is turned off. So, while the service bulletin is correct in indicating the a new tensioner will not correct this issue *if* it happens after a long period of non-use, I would bet that a new tensioner *will* correct your specific problem. I would also expect that, if not corrected, the problem will get worse with time, adding significantly to the wear and tear of the entire valve train. You did not specify your location and whether you have an extended warranty. If you do and they refuse coverage before-hand, you might want to authorize the repair out of your own pocket but take great care in documenting the "before" and "after" situation, and submit the claim again if, as I surmise, it fixes the problem.
Stefano


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Stefano:

I think North American Syntec is what is referred to as a Group III oil that many purists refuse to call a true synthetic because of its base stock. As I understand it, Mobil I was originally a "true" synthetic and sued Castrol for claiming Syntec as a synthetic oil. Castrol won in the U.S. and Syntec is labelled fully synthetic. However, in Europe if Castrol markets Syntec I believe they cannot claim it is synthetic because it is not a Group IV oil. The Castrol LongLife oil used in European Phaetons with the extended and monitored drain intervals is probably a Class IV oil.

Here's a pitch from an Amsoil guy, but I think most of his info is probably OK. 

http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/synth_diff.php 

I think you are right that Syntec is a good oil that will provide excellent service in the Phaeton as long as VW scheduled maintenance is followed. My recommendation to try Amsoil was based on trying another good oil with a different formulation and who knows, the problem might have gone away. Apparently it didn't and I think you are correct in that the tensioner in Trem816's car is worse than "normal" since it rattles all the time, rather than occasionally after a long period of inactivity. I feel his pain, because the times my Phaeton does it, my blood pressure probably elevates 20 points.:banghead:

It scares me to think how much replacing the chain tensioner might be. Is it another engine out maneuver? 

Jim X


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## Motorista (Oct 28, 2005)

Thank you for the info Jim: very interesting, and something I did not know. Just out of curiosity, I will follow up with Blackstone Labs, which does all of my regular oil analysis, see what they have to say.
Best,
Stefano


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## 30mpg (Mar 30, 2008)

I am glad to see this today, as I have this problem somewhat frequently. It also raises my blood pressure 20 points each time I hear it. In fact, my wife was with me one cold morning when we started the car, and even she said that didn't sound normal. For her to notice it, ...

I'm surprised this is considered "normal."


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm also interested to see this pop up today. My experience totally contradicts this being a "normal" noise. Mine was fine until I had the timing belt changed, until then I had the "usual" noisy startup when cold, with some rattling. However, since the timing belt change I get an absolutely horrendous noise about twice a week. It's difficult to convey just how loud this noise is, it's loud enough that it'd be embarrassing to start the car in public, fortunately my cold starts are always in my garage. My daughter described it as "like an AK47", although how she knows what an AK47 sound like I just don't know, I blame violent video games!

As Jim said below, this is bad enough that if it starts to happen any more frequently, I'll be looking for another car.


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## chillson (Sep 6, 2010)

Bought my 2004 V8 last September with 62K miles on it and now have 85K. I never heard this sound until after I had the timing and serpentine belts replaced (just after 80K). My car sat for three days over last weekend and when I started it up, it sounded horrible. I have heard the sound only a few times since the belt replacements. If I drive it daily, it doesn't happen. Could there be a connection to the belt replacements? Thanks...Jay


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

chillson said:


> Bought my 2004 V8 last September with 62K miles on it and now have 85K. I never heard this sound until after I had the timing and serpentine belts replaced (just after 80K). My car sat for three days over last weekend and when I started it up, it sounded horrible. I have heard the sound only a few times since the belt replacements. If I drive it daily, it doesn't happen. Could there be a connection to the belt replacements? Thanks...Jay


Exactly the same as mine. I've had mine for 3 years and never heard the noise until the timing belt was changed. No way is it coincidence.


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

Ok folks I called my dealer and he is going to look into this, I told him that this cannont be normal and if VW was not willing to do something about this I will have to look at getting into another vehicle and not buying another V-Dub. So we will see what happens, I also have a warranty so one way or another I hope they get this fixed!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

trem816 said:


> Ok folks I called my dealer and he is going to look into this, I told him that this cannont be normal and if VW was not willing to do something about this I will have to look at getting into another vehicle and not buying another V-Dub. So we will see what happens, I also have a warranty so one way or another I hope they get this fixed!


Keep us posted! Mine's in today, supposedly for them to look at this, but I get the distinct impression they're disinclined to acquiesce. My best guess after reading the TB is that during the timing belt change they somehow altered the chain adjustment (someone correct me if there's no chain, I thought I read somewhere that it has both) and to correct it would require taking the front end off again.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Just had a call from the dealer. I don't have all the details yet, something about a problem with sprockets, presumably the cam chain sprockets. Job is around $3k, so they're waiting for a warranty inspector..... Can't help wondering if the dealer is hoping the warranty is going to cover whatever it was they did.

Interestingly, they initially thought the parts were available but then they found out they'd gone to someone else.....


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Latest update on this issue:

I spoke to the tech on saturday, he said the tensioners on the chain that controls the variable valve timing need to be replaced, he gave me the story about the oil pressure. The dealership are sticking to it being a warranty job, although I find it hard to believe that after 3 years of ownership without having the noise, that it was merely coincidence that the noise started immediately after them changing the timing belt. The car is currently awaiting the arrival of the warranty inspector, so it's already been there since thursday, and since the parts are not available, I doubt I'm going to see it again for at least a couple of weeks. Despite the TB, I also don't believe this is solely due to the oil pressure issue, since it normally has some chain rattle anyway on cold starts, presumably caused by low oil pressure around the chain.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The saga continues:

Warranty inspector has inspected the car, heard the death rattle, but doesn't concur with the dealer about the cause (presumably having been inculcated with the VW TB database). He has, however, approved the necessary expense to strip it down and discover the cause of said death rattle, which surprised me no end, I've never heard of them paying for diagnosis before, which probably gives some indication of just how bloody loud and scary this noise is. The dealer remains convinced that the cause is as detailed in the TB, although that doesn't make much sense to then conclude that the tensioners need to be replaced. 

Have to say at this point that I continue to be impressed by the Fidelity warranty, they sometimes take a bit of cajoling, but that's the nature of this type of insurance I suppose. Assuming they ultimately pay for this job, and it does turn out to cost roughly the $3k the dealer suggested it would, their total payout so far in the 20 months or so that I've had the 4 year policy will be roughly $9k including the climatronic controller that they're also replacing. In retrospect, I count myself as having been very lucky in the period between the factory warranty expiring and when I bought the Fidelity warranty.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Spoke too soon about Fidelity. After initially approving work to strip the engine down (or so the dealer tells me), they are now refusing the claim based on the TB. By thursday I'll have been without the car for 2 weeks, the only time anything seems to move at all is when I kick up a fuss.


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## Tully Lee (Jan 3, 2011)

What is the current status!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Someone's actually following my ramblings???
Today marks two weeks at the dealer. I believe they've "escalated" the claim with Fidelity, and another rep is going to look at the car today. The dealer is still pushing the warranty line, I'm not sure what will happen if Fidelity still refuse, since I remain convinced that the problem is something different from the noise mentioned in the TB and was caused by something they did when they changed the timing belt (in addition to losing the key, failing to reconnect the parking sensors and outside temperature sensor, and causing a problem with one of the headlamp washers). During the last conversation I had with the service advisor, he said they'd told Fidelity that the noise might be acceptable on a Jetta, but not on a Phaeton. If it was a Jetta, I'd be just as upset about it, this noise is horrendous.

Stay tuned for another episode later today!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Here's the latest bulletin:
Fidelity have approved the replacement of the cam adjusters (for the second time). Hopefully this time they'll get the job done before Fidelity change their minds again. They originally approved the strip-down, apparently because they wanted to see if it was sludge causing the problem rather than adjuster failure. The engine turned out to be "very clean", with no sludge, and the service manager tells me there was a LOT of play in the chain without the pressure of the oil. There are 11 hours left in the job, so I'd guess the total job must be close to 20 hours. Were I a religious person I'd be thanking god about now for nudging me towards buying the extended warranty, however since I'm not I'll put it down to common sense and recommend that anyone else without a warranty get one while they can. Mine has so far covered an a/c flap, tpms controller, climatronic controller, navigation cd drive, and a couple of other things that I can't recall off-hand.

One other thing I'd add to this: As has been noted before, whether or not extended warranty work is approved by Fidelity depends in large part on how the dealer presents the information to them, and also how determined the dealer is to persuade them to approve it if they have doubts. This is the second time the dealer has been able to push through a warranty approval after Fidelity initially declined it (the other thing being the climatronic controller), albeit after I got mediaeval on their arse. The trick, as seems to be the case with most customer service issues in the US, is to make it more difficult for them not to push the warranty company than it is for them to do some pushing.


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

I am waiting still I will be dropping it off next week for the dealer to inspect, I wonder if the warranty will fix the camshaft due to the fact that they have a TB. I am going to keep escalating the issue, has anyone tried to call VW of North America?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

trem816 said:


> I am waiting still I will be dropping it off next week for the dealer to inspect, I wonder if the warranty will fix the camshaft due to the fact that they have a TB. I am going to keep escalating the issue, has anyone tried to call VW of North America?


That would have been my next call had they not agreed to do it today. However, the last couple of times I've called them left me thinking that the "Phaeton line" had been merged completely with all the others, they showed no interest in helping me at all, in contrast to previous occasions. I doubt they're likely to intervene with the insurance company on your behalf. I think your best bet is to find some leverage with the dealer, speak to the service manager or whatever, and get them to strong-arm the warranty company. Failing that, you might get some sort of goodwill offer from VW, 50% or something.


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## trem816 (Apr 30, 2011)

Ok I may try that, I will keep you all posted.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Took a look at the car today in the shop with the valve covers removed. The engine, at least the exposed camshaft area, was pretty close to spotless, which surprised me on a vehicle with nearly 80k on it that mostly does short distances. Apparently the third warranty inspector was looking for signs of wear and/or sludge which might indicate skimping on oil changes (mine's had them all, as specified, fully synthetic every 10k miles, which indicates that more frequent oil changes are definitely NOT required).

There are two chains controlling the variable valve timing, on the right bank (looking from the front of the car) the chain is at the front, on the left bank it's at the rear, right up near the shroud under the windscreen. I couldn't see the lower half of the chain, but the upper half runs across the cams with the adjuster in the middle, which looks like a small piston pushing up on a smooth, curved piece that the chain runs across. I assume as the chain is pushed up, the cams are moved up, reducing the valve lift, but I'm only guessing from what I could see since it was the service advisor showing me, not the tech.

I'm not sure what exactly causes the rattle (assuming this IS the cause), either the pressure under the valve cover prevents the chain from bouncing against the cover, or the oil pressure underneath the adjuster piston raises it from the "cold" position to put some tension onto the chain which prevents it from bouncing.

Looking at the proximity of the adjuster to the cam belt (which I could also see), it wouldn't surprise me if there were something done during the belt change that affected the tension on the chain (and I assume the chain is driven by some mechanism from the belt). I know something happened, and I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's done the timing belt change as to what the cause might be.

To my relatively untrained eye, this looked like a job that wouldn't be too much of a problem for someone who knows what they're doing, either an independent shop or DIY. They hadn't had to remove too many bits an pieces to get the valve covers off, although I did notice the tops of the airboxes were nowhere to be seen. Once the covers are off, the tension adjusters are readily accessible.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

One month later, and I'm still without my Phaeton. I got a call last week while I was away, and when I called them back I was told the car was done and would be ready to collect on my return. When I called this morning, the other service bloke said he wasn't sure if it was ready yet, but he'd seen it earlier with the front bumper off. Several hours later (not having received the promised call back), I phoned again and was told that the replacement parts they'd fitted for the headlamp washers weren't the problem, and the issue was the brackets at the rear of the bumper, which strongly suggests to me that the washer problem was yet another thing they screwed up when they changed the timing belt.


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## Tully Lee (Jan 3, 2011)

Unreal


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I've done three cold starts now since getting it back on friday, and so far no sign of any rattle. Assuming it stays that way, then the TB is evidently incorrect. I'd like to give it another couple of weeks to make sure though.

The other thing they did was to change the climatronic controller, but this hasn't fixed the problem it was supposed to. When starting, it randomly forgets the 4-seat-control setting and the passenger side temperature is set to low.


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

invisiblewave said:


> I've done three cold starts now since getting it back on friday, and so far no sign of any rattle. Assuming it stays that way, then the TB is evidently incorrect. I'd like to give it another couple of weeks to make sure though.


I think most of us that have experienced this problem have always known the TB is incorrect. ANY engine should not do this. Especially one in a luxury car. However, I do understood VW's point of view that if the V8 does this infrequently there would not be any harm done to the engine - so why perform such an expensive and invasive repair, irrespective of who is paying the bill. However, if the "rattle" becomes a fairly regular occurence there is no way it is not causing gradual harm to the metal gear and chain. For those that have never heard this "rattle" you should experience it, it will make you think a rod is going to come through the block. :banghead:

My V8 has done this occasionaly and seems to be doing it less frequently over my 3 years of ownership. The only thing I have done is change my oil once per year which is about every 5-6k miles and I make sure the Phaeton doesn't sit for weeks at a time. Prior to my ownership, service records indicate that, as VW prescribed, it was done every 10k miles but fewer than 12 months. I don't want to start an oil service debate but I personally believe the 10k service interval with Castrol Syntec is too long. I have no oil analysis on which to base this, but I know neither my V8 Phaeton nor V8 Touareg will ever see a full 10k interval. With the price of a synthetic oil change on a Phaeton, I believe VW stretched the mileage interval to keep maintenance costs down. 

Just my 2 cents.

Jim X


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Having seen my engine with the valve covers removed, I'm inclined to say exactly the opposite about the oil change interval. Before paying for the parts, Fidelity wanted to take a look inside and make sure that the noise wasn't caused by wear due to skimping on oil changes. To my untrained eye, the cams and surrounding hardware looked brand new, there was no sludge, no visible wear, and it looked as if the engine might have 8k on it rather than the 80k it has. Fidelity must have formed a similar opinion because after having seen it themselves, they approved the adjuster change. The way my car is driven is also not ideal, I do a lot of low-mileage, cold-start, short distance driving, so I'd expect someone with a long highway commute would easily be able to go significantly farther than 10k between oil changes. It's not unusual in Europe for a vehicle to have 10k oil change intervals, some cars have a manufacturer-specified interval that's much longer. From memory, I think my last 911 had an oil change interval of 10k, I remember that like the Phaeton, even just before the change was due the oil was still so clear that it was difficult to read the dipstick. The reality is that with most modern engines, other major parts (eg, transmission!!) will probably fail long before internal engine wear becomes a big problem. 

I agree about VW's position. If my car started with that noise once a month, I wouldn't expect them to step up and pay to have it fixed, but I also think it's a bit much for them to issue a TB stating that changing the adjusters won't cure the problem if it actually does (fingers crossed for the next couple of weeks!).


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Just over a week and 8 cold starts after the cam chain tensioners were replaced, I'm ready to say that it solved the problem. There's no rattle at all on starting, and it also sounds quieter than it ever was before the AK47 noise started. Fidelity were aware of the TB, but since they agreed to the replacement of the tensioners anyway, they're also presumably aware that the TB is wrong, they just need some pushing.


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## chillson (Sep 6, 2010)

invisiblewave said:


> Just over a week and 8 cold starts after the cam chain tensioners were replaced, I'm ready to say that it solved the problem. There's no rattle at all on starting, and it also sounds quieter than it ever was before the AK47 noise started. Fidelity were aware of the TB, but since they agreed to the replacement of the tensioners anyway, they're also presumably aware that the TB is wrong, they just need some pushing.


 Do you know how much the cam chain tensioner replacement would have cost you if not for the warrany?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Invisible Wave: 

Thanks very much for posting all the follow-up reports, what you have written will be very valuable information for others in the future. 

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

chillson said:


> Do you know how much the cam chain tensioner replacement would have cost you if not for the warrany?


 Yeah, I haven't filed the invoice yet, the parts were US$1560 and the labour charge was US$1228, their hourly rate is about $120ish I think.


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## jerryneal (Jan 22, 2014)

*rattle*

i recently purchased an 06 phaeton the bulletin states thru 05 does this include my 06?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Hi Jerry:

Welcome to the forum.

I'm going to guess that the same concept applies to the MY 06 and onwards cars. That technical bulletin was originally published in early 2005, then republished (same content, but with a different reference number) one year later. I think that the only reason that the date range ends at 2005 is because that was the current model year at the time the bulletin was originally published.

New production vehicles (MY 2014) now crank the engine two revolutions, to build up lubricant pressure, before enabling the spark to permit the engine to start. I think this is done simply to cut down on customer complaints about the rattling noise.

Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Archival Note:*

Here is another discussion about camshafts - it is only 'distantly related', but I'm appending the link here so that the conversation doesn't get lost:

Fault Codes 16405 and 16395 after V8 Timing Belt Replacement

Michael


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## zoomzoomsheim (Sep 10, 2015)

*A breath of good news on my loud rattle on startup.*

My 04 V8 had been making the clatter on startup. Went away after 2-3 seconds, but it was getting more and more regular. Basically, if the car sat for 24 hours, it would make the noise. I brought the car in to my independent mechanic for the 90k timing belt and suspecting that it was the chain tensioners (as noted in this forum), I asked them to see about the noise as well. Given the other potential relationship between timing belt and rattle- it seemed prudent. I provided info from this forum and the initial assumption was that we would have to replace the tensioners. They found the TSB saying it won’t help, but it didn’t make any more sense to them to the contributors here. After talking to VW, and other shops around, we came across an interesting observation. On a cold startup, the noise happened, AND that one of the Intake Manifold linkages was operating slower than the other. They are both in good shape, but the right one operated after the left one and once both had turned the noise went away. They played with it and it was also quite a bit “stickier” than the other. So MAYBE, it was something in the intake manifold other than the chain. Consulting with VW, there wasn’t any easy replaceable parts. To replace the entire thing was 2+ grand.
On a whim, without any promises of success they did a hot manifold treatment – to clear possible carbon buildup that might be inhibiting moveament. They didn’t know if it would work, and I had to wait till the next day when it was cold to test it out.
What do you know? Next day, startup – no noise. Awesome $150 solution. I’m not entirely sure what the treatment entailed, but will find out.
Thought this might be useful for others.
Alan


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## Quazi modo (7 mo ago)

I had the some problem on my VW 4.2 TDi. I fitted a preheater to warm up the head. Takes about 3 hours to warm up , but the problem vanishes. Saves fuel and reduces wear. The electric preheater is from Norway and was fitted for a couple hours work. Problem solved.


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

I had both camshaft adjusters replaced at about 100k miles. The rattle went away. I was hearing in when pulling off from a stop sign. Now at 185k k miles I'm hearing it again, but not bad yet.


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