# Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to clear my 12.3 ECS Stg 2



## Turbo Turd (Jul 18, 2001)

So wtf is gonna clear this? Template doesnt do me any good cause I dont have any wheels to apply it to. Currently running TT rims but I'm not gonna run those in the snow, especially not with the tires that are on them. 
Ran dunlop winter sport m2's on my 15" avus rims last winter but obviously those wont clear this time.... soo....
what's gonna fit? will the 16" NB steelie fit?


----------



## PSUice944 (Dec 8, 2003)

The ECS Stage 2 is the TT front rotors, right? 
If so, as I understood it, all 16" VW wheels will clear these (except the Wolfsburg BBS). I picked up some nice used 16" castellettas and put some dunlop wintersport M3s on there and LOVE the setup.
I know my info is true for the VW oem alloy wheels... It may be worth it to look into the rim to dish design of the steel wheels to see if they are made in such a way that they wouldn't work.
Wheel and tire forum?


----------



## Turbo Turd (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: (PSUice944)*

my bad, I meant stg 2 v1 which is the porsche 4 pistons in the front along with the 12.3
Figured I'd try the brake forum first and see what that turned up


----------



## Turbo Turd (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: (Turbo Turd)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Stewz-GTI (Feb 16, 1999)

I have ECS 13.1 and I require 17" wheels for winter. So my old Enkei R6 are used for this purpose with Toyo snows.


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: (Turbo Turd)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Turbo Turd* »_my bad, I meant stg 2 v1 which is the porsche 4 pistons in the front along with the 12.3" <rotors>
I have those brakes (ECS Stage 2 version 1). During the summertime I have Audi TT 5 spoke wheels without spacers (the forged 225hp wheels). In the winter I have 16" New Beetle Alloys with 15mm H&R spacers and longer wheel bolts. All of the wheels below are 16". 
*What Fits:*
New Beetle Alloys with 15mm spacers
Jetta 'Castellet' Alloy wheels will 15mm spacers
GTI 'Montreal 1' with 15mm spacers
GTI 'Montreal 2' with 15mm spacers
*What does not fit:*
16" OEM Steel wheels. The way the metal bends to the barrel of the wheel requires 30mm spacers.
*What should fit:*
Audi TT non-sport package wheels will fit without spacers or very small spacers (VERY rare wheels)
Jetta/Golf 'Brands Hatch' Alloy wheels (Golf VR6 4-motion wheels in Europe) with 15 mm spacers
I went to a junkyard with multiple 10mm spacers in hand and the paper template from the website to find the above information. I ended up with New Beetle wheels because they were plentiful at the yard I was at. 
*NOTE:* When balancing the New Beetle wheels, the outboard stick on wheel weights *MUST* be as far out as possible (as close to the spokes of the wheel as possible). The calipers do not touch them when they are cold. But, when you heat them up....the calipers scraped the weights!







Ask me why I know that.\
*Wheel Guide:*
New Beetle alloy wheels 16"x6.5" ET42








Jetta 'Castellet' alloy wheels 16"x6.5" ET42








Jetta/Golf 'Brands Hatch' alloy wheels (Golf VR6 4-motion wheels in Europe) 16"x6.5" ET42








GTI 'Montreal 1' alloy wheels 16"x6.5" ET42








GTI 'Montreal 2' alloy wheels 16"x6.5" ET42








Audi TT non-sport package alloy wheels 16"x7" ET31








EDIT: Added the wheel size and offsets.


_Modified by eggroller at 4:14 PM 11-10-2004_


----------



## Turbo Turd (Jul 18, 2001)

*Re: (eggroller)*

You just rocked my breasts with that information http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
MUCH thanks, that helps me HUGE http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif If you're ever in PGH, I owe ya a few


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: (Turbo Turd)*

Your welcome!
I forgot to tell you what I have for the spacers and lugnuts. They are 15mm H&R DR Series wheel spacers with M14x1.5 43mm length Round/Ball Seat lugnuts.


----------



## alaskagreenjetta (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (eggroller)*

so do you think the 17" long beach wheels will clear just fine? I just got the stage 2 v1. I was curious is if need spacers or not?







and the only difference between stage 2 v1 and v2 is the 13.1 in rotor that you get in stage 1 right?


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: (alaskagreenjetta)*

I was not able to find any Long Beach wheels to test fit the template or the brakes.

_Quote »_I was curious is if need spacers or not? and the only difference between stage 2 v1 and v2 is the 13.1 in rotor that you get in stage 1 right?
The caliper adapters and the 13.1" rotors are the differences between the v1 and v2. The Stage 2 v2 will fit factory Long Beach wheels without spacers. ECS did their homework and reloated the calipers further inboard.
_Quote, originally posted by *ECS Tuning* »_Increased clamping leverage and rotor cooling while reducing rotor mass of stage 2v1. Using the same caliper as the version 1 kit, but with a custom designed light weight 13.1" 2 piece rotor. Custom designed rotor allows for fitement behind all 17" or larger wheels without the need for spacers. Complete kits include all mounting hardware, Porsche fasteners, pads, rotor rings and hats, stainless lines and ATE Super Blue fluid. Offers greatly improved pedal feel over the stock single piston floating caliper design.

EDIT added the quotes.


_Modified by eggroller at 1:35 AM 11-15-2004_


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: (eggroller)*

ECS Tuning Stage 2 version 2 behind OEM 17" Long Beach wheels without spacers:


----------



## HilF (Jan 10, 2004)

*Re: (eggroller)*

ray is the bomb when it comes to brakes and technical info. pics help http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## alaskagreenjetta (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (eggroller)*

so your probably thinking i'll need spacers huh. damn looks like I have to buy those now too. thank you!


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: (alaskagreenjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *alaskagreenjetta* »_so your probably thinking i'll need spacers huh. damn looks like I have to buy those now too. thank you!
Most shops will have some laying about. If they are cool about it maybe you could test fit the size you want before purchasing. These calipers do expand a slight bit when heated up. So don't go for 1mm of clearance. I would go so far as to say a least 4mm.


----------



## alaskagreenjetta (Sep 26, 2002)

*Re: (eggroller)*

thank you i was looking on ecstuning.com and looks like 4mm is the biggest i can get without it shooting up in price. I can always get the 17.5mm and push the car super wide haha thanks again for the all the input.


----------



## jermarlang (Mar 26, 2000)

*Re: (eggroller)*

Eggroller's comments worry me about 16" wheels with the TT kit. Does anyone know if the steel 16" spare tire will clear the fronts? If I'm stuck, I would hate to move a rear tire to the front.


----------



## EBG 1.8T (Jul 1, 2001)

*Re: (jermarlang)*

If you go to discount tire you can by the 16" TT knock-offs and run a 8mm spacer. They clear perfect. I ended up just buying a set 2 weeks ago since i am running the same brake kit. Also no your 16" steel wheel will not fit. sorry.


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: (jermarlang)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jermarlang* »_If I'm stuck, I would hate to move a rear tire to the front.
Could be worse. I have a 15" spare. No matter what I have to move a tire from the rear to the front. I am looking for a spare 17" for my summer wheels. Furthermore, I am looking for another 16" wheel for my winter setup.


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (Turbo Turd)*

FYI: To those who have not tracked their car with these brakes....you are missing out!!!! I was on the track (98 miles in a day) with multiple makes. C5 Corvette, BMW E36 M3, Alfa Romeo GTV6, Alfa Romeo 164 and Jetta VR6 to name a few. I would repeatedly out brake them all into the chicane from 100+ mph. I was able to pass all of the aforementioned cars. Plus it was raining (a nice equalizer).
What pads am I running? OEM Porsche Boxster Pagid pads. GREAT pads. Good heat range and good cold performance. I got rid of the original Mintex Red Box pads which came with the kit before they wore out. Why? at higher temperatures they would leave deposits on the rotors. These deposits makes the rotors behave as if they are warped. LAME!! I would have to let them cool a bit then jam on the brakes briefly to remove the buildup.


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (eggroller)*

I just installed my winter setup on the car. I brought the wheels back to the shop I bought the tires to rebalance them and put the outboard wheel weights in a different location where I know I will have plenty of clearance. Here is a picture of the inside of the New Beetle wheels I have for my winter setup (remember I use a 15mm H&R spacer with longer wheel bolts).
The Red arrow shows where the original weights were adhered to the wheels. I asked them to move the weight further outboard of the wheel. The Blue arrow is where the wheel weights were moved to. As you can see it is adjacent to the spoke of the wheel. There is plenty of space for the caliper to pass without hitting the weights.
























I can try for better pictures if you want to see the wheels on the car. Please let me know. (FYI: The car looks strange because I just put the wheels on the car and the surface is uneven)


----------



## ck_1.8T (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (eggroller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eggroller* »_...
What pads am I running? OEM Porsche Boxster Pagid pads. GREAT pads. Good heat range and good cold performance. I got rid of the original Mintex Red Box pads which came with the kit before they wore out. Why? at higher temperatures they would leave deposits on the rotors. These deposits makes the rotors behave as if they are warped. LAME!! I would have to let them cool a bit then jam on the brakes briefly to remove the buildup. 

Ray,
I've recently installed the ECS Stage 3 kit in the front (Porsche 993TT caliper + ...) and upgraded the rear 256mm vented rotors (the Octavia RS 180hp has the same braking system as the TT225, S3, Golf GTI 337) with the 308mm ECS rear vented rotors with the OEM calipers. After this the spare steel wheel (6x16") does not fit in the rear, and I found an OEM alloy wheel from a friend's standard Golf GTI 150hp, which as you know is 7x16"... 
Will this wheel clear the rear brakes...???















Another question is whether the 8x18" BBS-RC wheels-ET32 offer sufficient clearance to the front big Porsche 993TT calipers when for example these will overheat under extreme pressure. I'm asking this since my estimate (by vision) is that the clearance distance between the inner surface of the spokes and the caliper is 2-3mm...???








Thanks in advance ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Girlsound (Apr 27, 2002)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (eggroller)*

eggroller,
Am I correct in thinking that you run 15mm spacers in the front? Have you had any rubbing problems with these? Also, what size tires are you running? I have 16" Beetle "boots" on my Jetta with stock size 205/55-16 tires and have been told that runnign "large" spacers in the front will be...not...so good.


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (ck_1.8T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ck_1.8T* »_Ray,
I've recently installed the ECS Stage 3 kit in the front (Porsche 993TT caliper + ...) and upgraded the rear 256mm vented rotors (the Octavia RS 180hp has the same braking system as the TT225, S3, Golf GTI 337) with the 308mm ECS rear vented rotors with the OEM calipers. After this the spare steel wheel (6x16") does not fit in the rear, and I found an OEM alloy wheel from a friend's standard Golf GTI 150hp, which as you know is 7x16"... 
Will this wheel clear the rear brakes...???















Another question is whether the 8x18" BBS-RC wheels-ET32 offer sufficient clearance to the front big Porsche 993TT calipers when for example these will overheat under extreme pressure. I'm asking this since my estimate (by vision) is that the clearance distance between the inner surface of the spokes and the caliper is 2-3mm...???








Thanks in advance ... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
It is quite strange that the OEM steel wheels don't fit over the 256mm x 22mm OEM rear vented brakes. Are you sure they are the 16x6.5 ET42 OEM wheels? If they are, you might have better luck with the alloy wheels due to the shape of the spokes. I would hope that your friend will allow you to test fit the wheels prior to the purchase to make sure. FYI: Most OEM VW 16" Alloy wheels are 16x6.5 ET42. (You stated that they are 16x6) They
Unfortunately, I have no experience with the ECS Tuning Stage 3 brakes. However, ECS Tuning has a picture of the Stage 3 system behind the OEM VW BBS RC wheels (from the Euro 25th Aniversary or North American GTI 337): 








Those wheels are 18 x 7.5 with ET38. I would guess that you would require 5mm spacers to fit the BBS RC wheels over the calipers.
FYI: 2-3mm of clearance between the caliper and the spokes of the wheels is not enough for my comfort. I prefer 4-5mm. 5mm spacers would place your BBS RC at an offset of 38mm. Which is the same as what the OEM 337 have.
Good luck.


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (Girlsound)*

Yes, I am running 15mm H&R spacers on the front over my ECS Tuning Stage 2 version 1 brakes. There is no rubbing issues at all. I have turned the steering wheel from the maximum left to the maximum right and the wheels compressed into the wheel wells while cornering very hard. I have confirmed no issues by visually inspecting my wheel liners, suspension and tires for any visible contact. None. 
Here is a picture of the amount of clearance between the struts and tires:








The front wheels where I have 15mm of spacers installed. Notice where the wheels are...just about even with the fender's wheel arch.








The spacer installed:









I have the OEM tire size on the Beetle alloys. 205/55HR-16 tires (Dunlop Sport A2 tires).
More pictures of the brake caliper behind the 16x6.5 ET42 New Beetle Alloys with H&R 15mm spacers.








Better picture of the wheel weight installed per my previous post. (as close to the spokes as possible)


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (Girlsound)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Girlsound* »_<deleted> and have been told that runnign "large" spacers in the front will be...not...so good.

My spacers do have the hubcentric rings as an integral part of the spacer. The following picture is exactly what I have. 15mm H&R DR series spacers.








The picture comes from the following article by ECS Tuning: Information about H&R DR series Spacers (although they refer to them as "Version II")
Tons of information about spacers <click>
The Audi TT comes with 16x7 ET31 wheels (when you don't option the sports package) My wheels with the spacers (if I did the math correctly) is ET27 (42mm - 15mm) The difference between the is only 4mm. Audi specified those wheels from the factory. I am comfortable with an additional 4mm of offset since it widens the track. The spacers could increase the load on the wheel bearings by putting the wheels further away from the hub. But, I am not going to worry about that.
Click image for information about offset (by Tire Rack)


----------



## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (eggroller)*

My apologies for the filthy (dirty) car. I just got back from a 250 mile road trip through the mountains where they plowed and sanded the roads because of the 4"+ snowfall overnight.


----------



## ck_1.8T (Sep 5, 2004)

*Re: Predicting snow this week, I NEED to buy some winter wheels and tires to cl ... (eggroller)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eggroller* »_It is quite strange that the OEM steel wheels don't fit over the 256mm x 22mm OEM rear vented brakes. Are you sure they are the 16x6.5 ET42 OEM wheels? If they are, you might have better luck with the alloy wheels due to the shape of the spokes. I would hope that your friend will allow you to test fit the wheels prior to the purchase to make sure. FYI: Most OEM VW 16" Alloy wheels are 16x6.5 ET42. (You stated that they are 16x6) They
Unfortunately, I have no experience with the ECS Tuning Stage 3 brakes. However, ECS Tuning has a picture of the Stage 3 system behind the OEM VW BBS RC wheels (from the Euro 25th Aniversary or North American GTI 337): 








Those wheels are 18 x 7.5 with ET38. I would guess that you would require 5mm spacers to fit the BBS RC wheels over the calipers.
FYI: 2-3mm of clearance between the caliper and the spokes of the wheels is not enough for my comfort. I prefer 4-5mm. 5mm spacers would place your BBS RC at an offset of 38mm. Which is the same as what the OEM 337 have.
Good luck.

I said that the OEM steel wheel (16x6.5") does fit the OEM 256mm rear brake system (that's why it is there for) BUT does not clear the 308mm ECS rear vented rotors with the OEM caliper, because the adaptor brings the caliper more outwards...







I agree that the OEM alloy wheel of standard GTI-150hp might leave more space inside cause of the design of the spokes...







Yes, I was mistaken, they are 6.5x16" and I'll test these soon... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Are you sure that an ET38 leaves more space than ET32...??? I doubt it...







The ET32 offset pushes the wheels further out away from the car than ET35 and ET38... I thought, if I'm not wrong (from past reading), that: Offset = 1/2x(wheel width) - ET, and therefore, the smaller the ET then the larger the offset ...















All BBS-RC wheels for newer 1.8T Golf, Jetta, Audi A3/S3, Octavia, Leon are 8x18" (not 7.5x18") & ET32...!!!


_Modified by ck_1.8T at 3:26 PM 12-6-2004_


----------

