# 2012 Beetle Turbo - HPA Motorsports K04 Turbo Conversion @ Linden VW Motorsports



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I will be dropping off my 2012 Beetle at Linden VW Motorsports today to have a HPA Motorsports K04 Turbo Conversion done. Full pictures and details to follow!


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2012)




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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

Awesome!


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## OTAMYWY (Feb 16, 2001)

Any plans on dynoing the car after the install? I had mine dyno'd last weekend.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

OTAMYWY said:


> Any plans on dynoing the car after the install? I had mine dyno'd last weekend.


Yes! They are going to dyno the car upon completion of the install. I asked them to post all
the information on our site and they said they would.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Just got the email (6 P.M. EST) from Linden VW concerning the K04 with HPA's 'Super ECU'
tune and dyno runs. The following is the complete Email from Dennis Benedito @ Linden VW:

Your vehicle runs great!!! The tune is right on point and the dyno showed 322hp to the wheels
which are amazing numbers... You think your traction control kicked in with the APR Stage 2, ha!
It sure does now.

If you ever wanted to actually retro fit an "ESP" button to disable the traction control, there are
some solutions for you via ECSTUNING.com
Here is the link for you. http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Esp/ with this button it will allow you
to disengage the traction control. To do this we would have to find a perfect spot for it and 
actually wire it and program the ABS module.

Your vehicle is ready for pick up and we cannot wait to see how you like The Bug with the K04.

Thank you so much for choosing Linden VW Motorsports for your build.

I can't wait to pick the car up tomorrow morning. Don't think I'll be getting much sleep tonight!


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

ridgemanron said:


> Just got the email (6 P.M. EST) from Linden VW concerning the K04 with HPA's 'Super ECU'
> tune and dyno runs. The following is the complete Email from Dennis Benedito @ Linden VW:
> 
> Your vehicle runs great!!! The tune is right on point and the dyno showed 322hp to the wheels
> ...


P.S. - Also want to add that I no longer have the CEL problem that was not able to be removed
after my APR tune. Just that alone, makes me one happy camper !


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

Please take some video and post once you pick it up! Congrats and enjoy!!


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2007)

Congrats,

K04 + Beetle = :laugh:


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris659 said:


> Please take some video and post once you pick it up! Congrats and enjoy!!


Will talk to 'Linden' tomorrow. Was told they were going to post photos of the build and I'd like
them to post the dyno in graph form as well.


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## NickSarazen (Dec 16, 2012)

This is awesome man. Can't wait to hear how it drives!


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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

ridgemanron said:


> If you ever wanted to actually retro fit an "ESP" button to disable the traction control, there are
> some solutions for you via ECSTUNING.com
> Here is the link for you. http://www.ecstuning.com/Search/Esp/ with this button it will allow you
> to disengage the traction control. To do this we would have to find a perfect spot for it and
> actually wire it and program the ABS module.


WAIT, can we use this in place of the parking blank we're using?!


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

VWNDAHS said:


> WAIT, can we use this in place of the parking blank we're using?!


I would think any place that allows for easy wiring and programming the ABS module should
be O.K.. If I get a chance tomorrow to talk to a techy at 'Linden', I'll see what he says.


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## jwcardy (Feb 22, 2012)

i hope you have some good tires.


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## PooLeArMor (Aug 13, 2008)

just get this one http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...s-updated-harness-10-off-install-video-inside!

they even have DIY video for it..........


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

jwcardy said:


> i hope you have some good tires.


Just added a new set of Bridgestone Potenza RE760 Sport tires.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

ridgemanron said:


> I would think any place that allows for easy wiring and programming the ABS module should
> be O.K.. If I get a chance tomorrow to talk to a techy at 'Linden', I'll see what he says.


Noticed that USP Motorsports are heavily into the ESP set-ups. Would think they are the ones
to go over all your tech related concerns.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Picked up the 'Super Bug' and was told a full report will be posted soon, including the dyno
graphs. The newly increased power is awesome but in a much more linear way of delivery.
Can only describe the smoothness of acceleration as something I experienced in a Mazda 
Rotary RX-7, but in the case of the HPA K04 it is more substantial in its delivery from the
'get go' that just continues to build....and build...and build ! You have the sense that 
reaching its max is going to take you into 'scary world' as the ESP traction control light 
continues to remind you that it is something you probably shouldn't try to disconnect. 
322 wheel hp in this car is definitey more than enough as far as I'm concerned. I no longer
feel the need to enter the world of Stage III and above, which I'm sure has even more rocket
power through the upper power band but not something I would ever be able to properly
utilize in my spirited street driving. Next will have to be an upgrade to HPA brakes. I like the
idea that they are on the level of which you find in a Corvette, but in a slim caliper design that
allows fitment with my 18" Golf R Style OEM + wheels. Will have to decide if I want Red....or
possibly Blue since the color theme of my car is Black/Blue.


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> I no longer feel the need to enter the world of Stage III and above, which I'm sure has even more rocket power through the upper power band but not something I would ever be able to properly
> utilize in my spirited street driving. Next will have to be an upgrade to HPA brakes. I like the
> idea that they are on the level of which you find in a Corvette, but in a slim caliper design that
> allows fitment with my 18" Golf R Style OEM + wheels. Will have to decide if I want Red....or
> possibly Blue since the color theme of my car is Black/Blue.


I looked at the APR dyno graphs and the K04 looks to have a much better power band than the other 2 (Stage 3 and 3+) especially in the lower power band. Im sure the HPA setup is similar.

Cant wait to see the video! Glad everything turned out as planned or better for you! Jealous indeed!

Im glad you mentioned brakes because that was the first thing that came to mind! It may stop now but will fade much faster/easier and need alot more room to stop. Hope you have a good radar detector to keep you from behind bars with all this new found power LOL


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris659 said:


> I looked at the APR dyno graphs and the K04 looks to have a much better power band than the other 2 (Stage 3 and 3+) especially in the lower power band. Im sure the HPA setup is similar.
> 
> Cant wait to see the video! Glad everything turned out as planned or better for you! Jealous indeed!
> 
> Im glad you mentioned brakes because that was the first thing that came to mind! It may stop now but will fade much faster/easier and need alot more room to stop. Hope you have a good radar detector to keep you from behind bars with all this new found power LOL


I have 'The Cadenza Man' on 24/7 retainer in the event I go before a traffic judge. He has
a unique presentation style where he immediately demands the instantaneous removal of the
judge on the grounds that he's unfit, a disgrace to the robe, and just no damn good ! After
he deftly apologizes for his outburst, these old judges who sleep half the time while listening
to arguments, usually allow me to leave the court with just a warning so they can go and take
a sedative.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2012)

Pics will be coming later today! Stay tuned!


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## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

Wow dude you are so lucky to have such a cool dealer near by.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

stainlineho said:


> Wow dude you are so lucky to have such a cool dealer near by.


You're right ! I've got the best of both worlds, a VW dealership that is also an experienced
Motorsport facility. You wouldn't believe the R 32's they have and are presently modifying
for customers. Saw this red 2004 that is now sporting over 700 hp. These guys are serious,
extremely skilled and knowledgable individuals. Early on, when I mentioned my APR Stage II
set up not being able to stop throwing CEL's because the computer was not registering enough
air after all 02 sensor inserts had been removed to allow the most air possible, I was assured
by 'Linden's HPA Technician' that CEl's would be no problem with his K04 software and he was
right. Had I stayed with my APR set-up, each year I would have had to attempt a bypass 
procedure in order for me to comply with N.Y.'s inspection law and it wouldn't be an inexpensive
outlay. So glad I got into HPA's software instead.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2012)

Pics are up! I will be getting the dyno sheet today that I will post it ASAP!


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Pics are up! I will be getting the dyno sheet today that I will post it ASAP!


Great photos of the build, Ken !


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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

ridgemanron said:


> Great photos of the build, Ken !


:thumbup:


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2007)

K04 fits pretty nicely in there I'd say.


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## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

OP, I bet you are happy. Congrats man.



[email protected] said:


> K04 fits pretty nicely in there I'd say.


Is this pretty much a "bolt-on" kit?


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2007)

stainlineho said:


> OP, I bet you are happy. Congrats man.
> 
> 
> 
> Is this pretty much a "bolt-on" kit?


Not pretty much, it *IS *a bolt on a kit.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> K04 fits pretty nicely in there I'd say.


And let's not forget your custom 'tweaking' of my ECU so that not only am I now with super-optimum performance results (322hp to the wheels) but gone is my CEL problem to boot !


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## Jedidub (Oct 6, 2010)

[email protected] said:


>


Where did you get this?


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2007)

ridgemanron said:


> And let's not forget your custom 'tweaking' of my ECU so that not only am I now with super-optimum performance results (322hp to the wheels) but gone is my CEL problem to boot !



And you were worried about the emissions aspect :laugh: not an issue!


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Jedidub said:


> Where did you get this?


Had it built from 'scratch' by one of those retired 'old fart' machinists I know. Had to make a
template out of cardboard for the plate, and after after some adjustments he did, the plate
was ready for fitting. Had to also have another friend, who does custom interiors, make the
2" high base that would allow proper clearance for the stalk thru the various shifts. Actually
gave him a 6" X 2" plastic microwave bowl with the cut out on top and he surrounded it with
leather. For added rigidity to the bowl I first sprayed it with black plasti-dip. After removing the
leather boot, that is attached to a plastic surround clip, there is another surrounding ledge
that the 'trimmed outer edge' bowl is able to rest on. Had my third friend, who has an auto body
and repair shop, give me this really strong silicone. Had a tiger on the label so you know it has 
to be rugged stuff. After attaching the 6mm thick aluminum plate to the top of the leather, 
using 4 sink screws with locking 'grab' nuts on the bottom of the bowl, that sank their teeth into
the folded portion of leather on the underside of the bowl, I added some more silicone on the top
portion of the leather, beneath the aluminum plate, for additional securement. Just had to make
sure that the unit was angled the proper way to allow all shifting without hitting prongs or the
open sides of the finger openings, before pressing it down into the heavy bead of silicone. Kept
it in proper position with masking tape and allowed 24 hours for the silicone to cure. To be
honest, I had hoped 'early on' to get an already made plate that this guy in th U.K. developed
and sold for Audi TT MK-1 cars only......but he had no stock and didn't know when he could put
together another sizable order to have them made. I still would have had to come up with the
leather base since the MK-1 already had one. Another important point is that you must have a
short-shifter since, otherwise, the 'throws' are too long. The one I had in the car is APR's which
comes out of VW Racing in the U.K.. If you want to see a video of the U.K. shifter in action, go
to www.vagmeistter.com P.S. - Just for the record, I paid the machinist $200 and the leather
man $40. The plastic bowl did put me back $1.00 but what can you do when someone has 
something you need and no one is going to sell it cheaper? The stainless steel screws and the
'grab nuts' ran me another $4.00. Oh yea, the shift knob was a heavy, stainless steel one that
ran me $120 but came with an adapter for easy fitment on the TB's shift stalk. Found the little
oval shift plate ,that is resting on the main plate, on an Audi parts site and paid about $50 for
that little sucker.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> And you were worried about the emissions aspect :laugh: not an issue!


Keir, you were 'right on' when you promised me no CEL's !


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2012)

I fell in love with your shifter... Well done!


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## Jedidub (Oct 6, 2010)

That's a lot of work for a shifter, but its bad a$$

Some local old fart here in S. Fl. has a classic beetle that he used a kep mounting kit to rig up a 1980s Porsche 930 5spd to a 2.0 pancake motor, and did something very similar with his shifter. The guy was a surgeon here at a local hospital, and was a machinist for fun. Years ago he invented a titanium hip replacement, and he uses one of those as a shifter stalk it's pretty damn cool.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> I fell in love with your shifter... Well done!


Other than the Audi R8, the only other recent ones I've heard of are the one for the MK-1 TT
that fellow in the U.K. came up with, one for the Chrysler Crossfire, and one for the old 
Delorean cars that can be used for the 'old' large Lotus Esprit cars. Once in a while you will
see used, vintage Ferrari and Lamborghini ones up for sale. I believe new 'Lambo' ones can
be ordered from Italy at a price of over $1,500.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Jedidub said:


> That's a lot of work for a shifter, but its bad a$$
> 
> Some local old fart here in S. Fl. has a classic beetle that he used a kep mounting kit to rig up a 1980s Porsche 930 5spd to a 2.0 pancake motor, and did something very similar with his shifter. The guy was a surgeon here at a local hospital, and was a machinist for fun. Years ago he invented a titanium hip replacement, and he uses one of those as a shifter stalk it's pretty damn cool.


It's funny that your 'old fart' was an inventor, because I was told the guy who did mine actually
created his own engine and tried to get Ford involved with it.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Took the car on Saturday for a long drive up to Westchester and Connecticut and put
the bug 'thru his paces' on some 'better than Brookyln' asphalt. Can't get over how
much more power is available and when you simply want to 'tool around' leisurely,
the car has no problem doing that as well. It's kind of like you have a 'sleeping dragon'
under your hood that coordinates awakening with Borla's catback exhaust whenever you
want instant, almost absurd power & sound for a Beetle of all things. Hmm! Wonder how long
my traction control light is going to keep working before I need a bulb change? LOL


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## NickSarazen (Dec 16, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> Took the car on Saturday for a long drive up to Westchester and Connecticut and put
> the bug 'thru his paces' on some 'better than Brookyln' asphalt. Can't get over how
> much more power is available and when you simply want to 'tool around' leisurely,
> the car has no problem doing that as well. It's kind of like you have a 'sleeping dragon'
> ...


Sounds like an amazing machine, man! You should have someone take a video so we can see/hear what this beast is like. 

I'm sure plenty people have suggested this to you before, but what's your reason for not installing the USP traction control off button/kit?


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

NickSarazen said:


> Sounds like an amazing machine, man! You should have someone take a video so we can see/hear what this beast is like.
> 
> I'm sure plenty people have suggested this to you before, but what's your reason for not installing the USP traction control off button/kit?


The guys at Linden VW Motorsports would have to be involved for a video since I am not adept
at such things. Personally, I like the idea of having the traction control engaged for the added
protection it offers. If I were 'tracking' the car, then I could see needing the ability to turn it
off. For basic 'spirited' street driving I don't see a personal need.


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> The guys at Linden VW Motorsports would have to be involved for a video since I am not adept
> at such things. Personally, I like the idea of having the traction control engaged for the added
> protection it offers. If I were 'tracking' the car, then I could see needing the ability to turn it
> off. For basic 'spirited' street driving I don't see a personal need.


You could add it for the ability to have HPA's launch control addition. Think you have to be able to turn the ESP off in order to take advantage of it. 

For a video, even if you have someone in the passenger seat holding it on the gauges to See how quick you run up to speed and then another one facing straight out. You may even be able to make something off a cell phone... I'm eager to see something!


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris659 said:


> You could add it for the ability to have HPA's launch control addition. Think you have to be able to turn the ESP off in order to take advantage of it.
> 
> For a video, even if you have someone in the passenger seat holding it on the gauges to See how quick you run up to speed and then another one facing straight out. You may even be able to make something off a cell phone... I'm eager to see something!


Didn't know that they had a Launch Control for six-speed TB's? I thought it only was for the 
DSG cars.


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> Didn't know that they had a Launch Control for six-speed TB's? I thought it only was for the
> DSG cars.


Sorry didn't bother to ask and was thinking about my car... Oops


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Spoke via email with Ken @ Linden VW and he said he'd be able to post the dyno chart
info tomorrow morning.


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## MnATL (Oct 26, 2010)

opcorn: sub'd


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2012)




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## OTAMYWY (Feb 16, 2001)

ridgemanron said:


> Just got the email (6 P.M. EST) from Linden VW concerning the K04 with HPA's 'Super ECU'
> tune and dyno runs. The following is the complete Email from Dennis Benedito @ Linden VW:
> 
> Your vehicle runs great!!! The tune is right on point and the dyno showed 322hp to the wheels
> ...


I only see 272 HP.


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## PLATA (Mar 15, 2013)

opcorn: wow, :beer:


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## Dscot8r!2 (Dec 18, 2012)

Maybe someone can explain what the heck happened with the dyno? This engine should have a 6800 - 7200 redline, so Hp & Tq must cross at 5252 or it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It looks like the reading went south right at that critical moment? 

That dyno graph doesn't tell me a whole lot... The graph should look like this.


APR K04 dyno by Dscot8r!2, on Flickr


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## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

Dscot8r!2 said:


> Maybe someone can explain what the heck happened with the dyno? This engine should have a 6800 - 7200 redline, so Hp & Tq must cross at 5252 or it isn't worth the paper it's printed on. It looks like the reading went south right at that critical moment?
> 
> That dyno graph doesn't tell me a whole lot... The graph should look like this.
> 
> ...


Torque and HP will only cross at 5252 if the same scaling is used for hp and torque on the left and right of the graph. That graph ridge posted looks F'd to all belief and they probably couldn't make a proper pull with the traction control on. I'm not sure why LindenVW even posted that graph, it doesn't help! Doesn't really matter though because it isn't a custom tune, it is a tried and tested kit tune. Just need to take it somewhere else to dyno after installing the button. The pulls should have been made in 4th gear though so I didn't think ESP would come on then. Nonetheless that graph from Linden isn't a full pull.


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## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

And I do believe after looking more that torque and hp do crossbar 5250 on ridge's dyno. That's just the worst dyno graph I've seen in a while.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

1st of all you guys are comparing the APR special here we have a the most amazing turbo kit on the planet dyno graph to a real life HPA K04'd car. APR cleans up their graph to show you the "best" outcome. With this one they are showing you all they collected, at least that's how it looks to me. As for the red line though, yea that I don't understand. Why they didn't carry it all the way through the rpm range doesn't make sense to me. But hey maybe they'll chime in and explain.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

OTAMYWY said:


> I only see 272 HP.


Yup


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Not really being versed in this stuff, is it believed that were the traction control button to
be installed that there would be higher readings produced? I was under the impression that
a traction control overide was done when I spoke with the head man (Dennis) at Linden VW.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> Not really being versed in this stuff, is it believed that were the traction control button to
> be installed that there would be higher readings produced? I was under the impression that
> a traction control overide was done when I spoke with the head man (Dennis) at Linden VW.


No the traction control button won't make a difference in power on a dyno because you never "lose" traction, only on the street/track does it make a difference.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

To be honest, 272hp to the wheels is what I expected from a K04 with my main concern
not being the power numbers being higher but that I would lose that damn CEL problem
that accompanied my APR Stage II tune which had the ECU asking for more air, even 
though no more added air was possible with the removal of all sensor inserts. HPA 
guaranteed me I wouldm't have any CEL issues with their K04 and they were right on that
count.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> To be honest, 272hp to the wheels is what I expected from a K04 with my main concern
> not being the power numbers being higher but that I would lose that damn CEL problem
> that accompanied my APR Stage II tune which had the ECU asking for more air, even
> though no more added air was possible with the removal of all sensor inserts. HPA
> ...


And also don't forget its a computer doing the calculations, and every dyno is different. You could get on another dyno on maybe a cooler day, blah blah blah, and get much better numbers. It should be more about how happy you are with the way it drives, which obviously you are, than the dyno numbers. People get too hung up on the numbers sometimes.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Hey, the car runs great, has more than enough power to satisfy me, and like I said, 
not having to deal with the CEL issue here in N.Y. with passing their tough emission
standards can't be underestimated.


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## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

ridgemanron said:


> Not really being versed in this stuff, is it believed that were the traction control button to
> be installed that there would be higher readings produced? I was under the impression that
> a traction control overide was done when I spoke with the head man (Dennis) at Linden VW.


Dude I wouldn't sweat a graph. Dyno graphs are for bench racers anyway, especially when you have a R&D tune on the car from HPA. Just have fun in the streets. It is nice to know numbers but they certainly aren't the end all be all. Dyno is a tool for simulating street conditions when tuning with custom software, torque output is an added bonus.

I'm pretty sure APR advertises flywheel HP in all their graphs, etc. I bet you car is making right around 290-300whp. That is stout for a Beetle. You will definitely surprise many people and even beat faster cars that have no driver mod.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

What I'm curious about is the fact that, since I have all Stage II APR components in my 
car (intercooler, intake with backpipe, 3" downpipe) with a Borla cat-back exhaust, why did
my Stage II Tune result in a CEL problem that couln't be corrected? Did they screw up
the tune?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> What I'm curious about is the fact that, since I have all Stage II APR components in my
> car (intercooler, intake with backpipe, 3" downpipe) with a Borla cat-back exhaust, why did
> my Stage II Tune result in a CEL problem that couln't be corrected? Did they screw up
> the tune?


Perfectly normal and in fact I'm curious what HPA did to your tune to get rid of it. If they simply disabled the secondary o2 sensor (like apr's test pipe file) then you will still fail inspection because readiness won't show up, however if they have a way to simulate readiness with the o2 sensor disabled then you're golden.


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## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2007)

drtechy said:


> Perfectly normal and in fact I'm curious what HPA did to your tune to get rid of it. If they simply disabled the secondary o2 sensor (like apr's test pipe file) then you will still fail inspection because readiness won't show up, however if they have a way to simulate readiness with the o2 sensor disabled then you're golden.


We do not turn off anything.

Properly calibrating and scaling them is what is needed to not throw a code. There is no reason that should be ' perfectly normal '

The Dyno has an issue because of the ESP program on a 2 wheel dyno. Rear tires are not spinning fronts are, it only allows it to go to a certain RPM, I thought they re-ran it with this corrected I'll try and get some more information.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> We do not turn off anything.
> 
> Properly calibrating and scaling them is what is needed to not throw a code. There is no reason that should be ' perfectly normal '


I'm just saying its normal on an APR tune since it's not tuned specifically for your car.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

As I've mentioned, APR's Stage II not only had me experiencing the dreaded CEL, but
no matter what was tried with regard to increasing airflow, I still couldn't rid myself of
it. With HPA I'm totally clear and could pass emissions right now if I needed to with no
tricks needed.


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## [email protected] (Jun 4, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> As I've mentioned, APR's Stage II not only had me experiencing the dreaded CEL, but
> no matter what was tried with regard to increasing airflow, I still couldn't rid myself of
> it. With HPA I'm totally clear and could pass emissions right now if I needed to with no
> tricks needed.


Ron,
You plan on doing the ESP button to allow that system to be turned off, correct?


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Ron,
> You plan on doing the ESP button to allow that system to be turned off, correct?


Ken - I really didn't see the need to do it but could be swayed if it would allow a better 
possible dyno result. In truth, I don't see myself wanting to disengage it for personal
performance reasons but like I said, if it allows for a better possible result my curiosity 
would come into my decision making.


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## Dscot8r!2 (Dec 18, 2012)

stainlineho said:


> And I do believe after looking more that torque and hp do crossbar 5250 on ridge's dyno. That's just the worst dyno graph I've seen in a while.


I saw that too. This was the only quick access I had to a dyno graph, and I was trying to get some discussion going. It looks like it was tracking for around 300whp, which is very strong. I was just wondering why they stopped the pull so soon?


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## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> We do not turn off anything.
> 
> Properly calibrating and scaling them is what is needed to not throw a code. There is no reason that should be ' perfectly normal '
> 
> The Dyno has an issue because of the ESP program on a 2 wheel dyno. Rear tires are not spinning fronts are, it only allows it to go to a certain RPM, I thought they re-ran it with this corrected I'll try and get some more information.


Ahh-ha! So ESP is playing with the dyno numbers! Ridge, you need that button with your kind of power man!

And yes HPA, CELs are all in the tune! Especially when the code is for a lean/rich air/fuel issue.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I've contacted Ken @ Linden VW and decided to go ahead with installing the traction control
switch. Waiting for them to get back to me concenring cost, when it can be done, and to make
sure it is set up for as clean a look as possible. Will then run another dyno to satisfy my 
curiosity with regard to what numbers the Bug can achieve. Should be fun.


----------



## Dscot8r!2 (Dec 18, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> I've contacted Ken @ Linden VW and decided to go ahead with installing the traction control
> switch. Waiting for them to get back to me concenring cost, when it can be done, and to make
> sure it is set up for as clean a look as possible. Will then run another dyno to satisfy my
> curiosity with regard to what numbers the Bug can achieve. Should be fun.


$129.95, plus what ever labor they charge. :thumbup: Time to look at some stickier tires. 

http://uspmotorsports.com/Beetle-Traction-Control-Button-Kit.html


----------



## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

Dscot8r!2 said:


> $129.95, plus what ever labor they charge. :thumbup: Time to look at some stickier tires.
> 
> http://uspmotorsports.com/Beetle-Traction-Control-Button-Kit.html


Don't forget to use the 10% off coupon...I'd order it yourself Ridge and have it shipped to the dealer at Ken's ATTN


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Dscot8r!2 said:


> $129.95, plus what ever labor they charge. :thumbup: Time to look at some stickier tires.
> 
> http://uspmotorsports.com/Beetle-Traction-Control-Button-Kit.html


Thanks for the specific info. Having it ordered today. With regard to tires I just recently 
replaced my All season OEM Hankook Optimo tires for Bridgestone's Potenza RE760 Sport
Summer Performance Tires.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> Thanks for the specific info. Having it ordered today. With regard to tires I just recently
> replaced my All season OEM Hankook Optimo tires for Bridgestone's Potenza RE760 Sport
> Summer Performance Tires.


Great tires same I've used for years


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I viewed the traction install video from USP Motorsports for manual shift and realized my 
round, custom leather shifter is now permanently affixed to the rubber base that surrounds
the shifter stalk with no access any longer to the two screws that connect the rubber base
to the portion of the console that must be disconnected in order to reach the wiring below it.

I had to smother the surrounding edges with a permanent silicone adhesive in order to keep
the 2" high leather shifter base plate securely positioned to that rubber base, which means 
that my floor mounted console and dash control plate are now 'in essence' one huge piece
that cannot be separated in sections.

Don't know how I can reach the connections behind the center dash ' plastic' base plate in
order to connect to the necessary wires and have sent an email to Ken @ Linden making him
aware of the problem I realized from the USP video.


----------



## VuickB6 (Aug 4, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> What I'm curious about is the fact that, since I have all Stage II APR components in my
> car (intercooler, intake with backpipe, 3" downpipe) with a Borla cat-back exhaust, why did
> my Stage II Tune result in a CEL problem that couln't be corrected? Did they screw up
> the tune?





ridgemanron said:


> As I've mentioned, APR's Stage II not only had me experiencing the dreaded CEL, but
> no matter what was tried with regard to increasing airflow, I still couldn't rid myself of
> it. With HPA I'm totally clear and could pass emissions right now if I needed to with no
> tricks needed.


What did APR say when you contacted them?


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

VuickB6 said:


> What did APR say when you contacted them?


It was laughable ! They began trying to blame my other components as not being up to 
'snuff'........but then I told them the whole damn car is APR Stage II components with the
only exception being the custom Borla cat-back exhaust which is something APR wasn't
even offering at the time. Never heard back from them after that. I'm thinking since my
six speed TB was, most likely the first.....or one of the first to get the 'flash', that they 
hadn't given it all the necessary time required to really get it right. HPA/Linden kept my car 
for two days in order to do the K04 but when I got the car back.....no problems.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> It was laughable ! They began trying to blame my other components as not being up to
> 'snuff'........but then I told them the whole damn car is APR Stage II components with the
> only exception being the custom Borla cat-back exhaust which is something APR wasn't
> even offering at the time. Never heard back from them after that. I'm thinking since my
> ...


Every car is different, there is no way for ANY tuner to be able to program an ECU to eliminate that code without doing a custom tune. So when people purchase an APR tune they have to be aware of it. Remember stock we have 2 catalytic converters, and aftermarket typically only has one, not to mention that one is usually a high flow race cat. Again the reason HPA was able to do it was because they had your car on the dyno and could adjust the numbers. There's no way for tuners to do this remotely. It has nothing to do with being a beetle, the TSI engine has been in vehicles since 2009 and is the same across all the VW vehicles.


----------



## VuickB6 (Aug 4, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> It was laughable ! They began trying to blame my other components as not being up to
> 'snuff'........but then I told them the whole damn car is APR Stage II components with the
> only exception being the custom Borla cat-back exhaust which is something APR wasn't
> even offering at the time. Never heard back from them after that. I'm thinking since my
> ...


Who was it at APR did you speak to if you don't mind sharing?


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

VuickB6 said:


> Who was it at APR did you speak to if you don't mind sharing?


I just remember asking for 'tech support' and the girl connected me to that dept.. Don't remember
the specific person that replied to my inquiry but it wouldn't surprise me if you received different
information from different people. I remember when someone on our site first asked about the 
K04 fitting the TB and he was told 'no'. Later on, Arin at APR said it did but every time we tried
to get him to give us someone who had it installed in a TB, all we got was an answer concerning
it being installed in a GLI with no problems. I, and others, were surprised that we couldn't get
one specific person with the APR K04 in a TB to 'chime in'. Arin said something about 28 units
being sold but if they were actually installed in a TB, I would think that one APR customer could
be reached to confirm it. If not through this site, then why couldn't Arin contact an existing
customer with a TB K04 install and ask him to relay info ?


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2007)

drtechy said:


> Every car is different, there is no way for ANY tuner to be able to program an ECU to eliminate that code without doing a custom tune. So when people purchase an APR tune they have to be aware of it. Remember stock we have 2 catalytic converters, and aftermarket typically only has one, not to mention that one is usually a high flow race cat. Again the reason HPA was able to do it was because they had your car on the dyno and could adjust the numbers. There's no way for tuners to do this remotely. It has nothing to do with being a beetle, the TSI engine has been in vehicles since 2009 and is the same across all the VW vehicles.


His car was flashed once. We didn't need to log it to do that. We just made the file right the first time. 

Again there is NO excuse for him having a CEL when he had all the components that were listed as ' recommended ' and his rear exhaust section would have NOTHING to do with his CEL.

It was a case of a bad tune, I hear about it daily. It doesn't take a custom tune to make it right, it just takes the right tune to make it right. Can we start with the right tune and make it better, sure and if we can for the OP we certainly will as I hear his car is going to go back to the dyno. 

the TSI motor has not been the same since 2009 nor has the ECU's that run it, its gone through several iterations of the ECU in north america and even more world wide.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> His car was flashed once. We didn't need to log it to do that. We just made the file right the first time.
> 
> Again there is NO excuse for him having a CEL when he had all the components that were listed as ' recommended ' and his rear exhaust section would have NOTHING to do with his CEL.
> 
> ...


ECU's have changed yes, has the motor well honestly I don't know. As for the dyno tune, I believe, but I haven't double checked, that he specifically said they did a dyno tune for him and adjusted parameters so that he wouldn't throw a CEL. I know plenty of people with multiple different tuners that experience this issue, including HPA tunes.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

With regard to HPA's conversation with me concerning CEL's. All I remember them saying 
was that I would have no CEL issues after installation of the K04 and they were right on.
There was no mention that a special tune was the way they did away with CEL's. The mention
of a special tune had to do with dyno results being enhanced by it. If I can get the traction
control 'off', I should see higher numbers but as I stated previously, getting to the wire
connections below my shifter is no longer possible with my custom shifter. Have asked USP
Motorsports if there was another way to connect all needed connections but haven't heard
back from them yet.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Here's what I don't understand, how can you not throw a cel without adjusting the tune if you have a race cat? Stock our cars have two cats and 2 or 3 o2 sensors. By removing one cat the efficiency that the computer looks for will automatically be off. And being that every engine acts slightly different how can you guarantee, without faking the numbers, that it won't throw a cel on every application? Anyone know? I'm yet to find anyone on stage 2 that can run a race cat and not throw a cel without either an o2 spacer, or having the tuner tune it out of the software. Idk its interesting.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

When I had the Stage II 'Flash' installed, it was done at an approved APR Tuner who actually
races VW's. Don't know why after 02 spacers went in...and then out, additional tuning wasn't
able to cure my CEL problem. I'm sure the tuning shop did whatever they could through APR
but in finality I was told it would stay in the system.

HPA didn't 'blink an eye' when I told them about my existing problem, just said it wouldn't be
a problem and that when I left Linden my CEL problem would be history. In my opinion, based
off final results, HPA was able to tune my car to a better level than APR. These guys are in
business over 20 years and do exceptional performance upgrades. Heck, they even told me
I could have a true Beetle R (with AWD) if I wanted it. Never asked them about the price but
just having it offered should tell you about the extent of their expertise.


----------



## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> These guys are in
> business over 20 years and do exceptional performance upgrades. Heck, they even told me
> I could have a true Beetle R (with AWD) if I wanted it. Never asked them about the price but
> just having it offered should tell you about the extent of their expertise.


Ummm I'm pretty sure APR has already done that and offers it as well

Wasn't it called the Super Beetle? Or am I incorrect on the tuning company and car?


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Chris659 said:


> Ummm I'm pretty sure APR has already done that and offers it as well
> 
> Wasn't it called the Super Beetle? Or am I incorrect on the tuning company and car?


You are correct


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

What is also correct is that HPA is, to the best of my knowledge, are the only ones to add
AWD to the Scirocco and that was well before the Super Beetle project from Jamie.
Also, HPA's power levels far exceeded the 500hp in the 'Jamie' Super beetle.


----------



## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> What is also correct is that HPA is, to the best of my knowledge, are the only ones to add
> AWD to the Scirocco and that was well before the Super Beetle project from Jamie.
> Also, HPA's power levels far exceeded the 500hp in the 'Jamie' Super beetle.


No need to get your panties in a twist! Im well aware of who HPA is as I've been following them since they put a turbo awd setup in the gen 1 beetle in the late 90s early 00s. I'm just pointing out that APR offers the same thing.

I like your setup and glad you're happy with it! In the end that's all that really matters...


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris659 said:


> No need to get your panties in a twist! Im well aware of who HPA is as I've been following them since they put a turbo awd setup in the gen 1 beetle in the late 90s early 00s. I'm just pointing out that APR offers the same thing.
> 
> I like your setup and glad you're happy with it! In the end that's all that really matters...


We're still back to CEL's. Who gives them......and who takes them away......without having to
do 'tricks' ?


----------



## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> We're still back to CEL's. Who gives them......and who takes them away......without having to
> do 'tricks' ?


It is nice to know since performance is my next step after I get my audio system installed...

After reading HPA's site it looks as though they may be able to provide launch control since I have the DSG tranny and the kit is the same price as APRs. I know I would have to have the ESP button but I'm wondering if anything else will be needed. Such as their DSG software.


----------



## Dscot8r!2 (Dec 18, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> When I had the Stage II 'Flash' installed, it was done at an approved APR Tuner who actually
> races VW's. Don't know why after 02 spacers went in...and then out, additional tuning wasn't
> able to cure my CEL problem. I'm sure the tuning shop did whatever they could through APR
> but in finality I was told it would stay in the system.
> ...


FWIW - This is the only car I've heard of having this problem. I did my intake and DP before I did my APR Stage 2 tune, and immediately it popped a CEL. I had the code cleared, and it popped on again within a mile of leaving the dealer.

I went to APR in Opelika two days later, and they cleared the fault with the new program, and in 8+ months no CEL. 

I'm glad you seem to be happy with the job HPA has done, I've always heard they're a class outfit. I just wish this thread, along with the other thread hadn't of turned into a sh!t slinging competition.

You seemed to have real heartburn over the way you were treated by APR, that's unfortunate. I've been running a Stage 3+ and then some for over 7 years now on my GTI, and not only has it been bullet proof to this point; it's exceeded every goal I was hoping for it to achieve. X2 for my Beetle. 

I get that the APR dealer races VWs and what not, but that doesn't mean they didn't make a mistake when tuning / working on your car.  I'm glad HPA has cleared the CEL. It seems like what ever hardware / software that was causing the CELs was replaced.

Looking forward to a proper dyno. :thumbup:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Still haven't heard back from USP Motorsports, after telling them I can't access the area
beneath the shifter to connect to the wiring there and that I would need to connect 
somewhere else. With regard to my Stage II APR tune, Tyrol Sport was actually suggested
by APR for my tune when I told them the one nearest me, 212Motoring, wasn't able to 
do it for me. Tyrol Sport have done tons of tunes for APR and in my case they actually
removed the ECU, sent the info to APR, and then had me come back when APR told them
all was ready......two weeks later. That should have been the 'red flag' for me to realize that
APR wasn't doing the turn-around in the normal two to three days. They must have encountered
problems that may or may not have to do with my being the first, or one of the first, six-speed
Bugs to get the 'Flash'. I also remember being told that, at the time, they only had six technicians
to do all their ECU's and that over 600 tuners (worldwide) were what they were dealing with.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> His car was flashed once. We didn't need to log it to do that. We just made the file right the first time.
> 
> Again there is NO excuse for him having a CEL when he had all the components that were listed as ' recommended ' and his rear exhaust section would have NOTHING to do with his CEL.
> 
> ...


 Hi Guys, 

Just wanted to clarify some of the things being said about Ron Aguas' Beetle. The CEL Ron had was a typical cat inefficiency code that was a result of an aftermarket downpipe. 

Ron had two choices to resolve the CEL; 

One was to flash him with software that would eliminate the CEL but NOT pass NYS emissions(A standard cat-delete file that many of you may have). This would require an annual reflash and time to generate emissions readiness. 

OR 

to flash him with a standard file and try 02 sensor spacers to "fool" the ECU and be able to generate emissions readiness automatically. 

Ron chose option #2, but was not able to obtain the proper combination of spacers to make this effort successful. 

This is quite a common issue here in NY. If you flash your car with a cat-delete file, it WILL NOT pass NY emissions UNLESS the tuner is purposely violating EPA rules. No one is at fault here, as the choice ultimately resides with the consumer on which way they want to proceed. Best of luck to all of those involved. :thumbup: :beer:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

TyrolSport said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just wanted to clarify some of the things being said about Ron Aguas' Beetle. The CEL Ron had was a typical cat inefficiency code that was a result of an aftermarket downpipe.
> 
> ...


 Hi Mike ! Since all my Stage II components were APR's, and APR took numerous weeks to get 
back to you with tuning of my ECU, did they have such problems reaching the proper tune that 
any combination of the 02 spacers not getting the desired result was due to their tune? 

As stated in earlier portions of this thread, HPA's tune, that accompanied my KO4, has me 
totally free of CEL's.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

ridgemanron said:


> Hi Mike ! Since all my Stage II components were APR's, and APR took numerous weeks to get
> back to you with tuning of my ECU, did they have such problems reaching the proper tune that
> any combination of the 02 spacers not getting the desired result was due to their tune?
> 
> ...


 You were given two choices with the software, Ron. One was to be CEL free but NOT pass NYS emissions. The second was to pass NYS emissions but have to use 02 spacers to be CEL free. Stop by when you have a moment so that we can see if the HPA tune will pass NYS emissions. :beer:


----------



## VuickB6 (Aug 4, 2006)

TyrolSport said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> Just wanted to clarify some of the things being said about Ron Aguas' Beetle. The CEL Ron had was a typical cat inefficiency code that was a result of an aftermarket downpipe.
> 
> ...


 I figured we weren't getting the whole story. 

Thanks for clearing it up. :thumbup:


----------



## PooLeArMor (Aug 13, 2008)

when I had my MKV GTI I have catless DP with APR Stage 2 tune and I am able to pass NYS emissions every year... 

from what I read somewhere long time ago... the minimum requirements to pass the NYS emissions is that no Engine light on with 2 pending CELs will still get u pass. 


so if ridgemanron get the APR catless file he will passes the NYS emissions with nth else is failing on his car.


----------



## Dscot8r!2 (Dec 18, 2012)

TyrolSport said:


> You were given two choices with the software, Ron. One was to be CEL free but NOT pass NYS emissions. The second was to pass NYS emissions but have to use 02 spacers to be CEL free. Stop by when you have a moment so that we can see if the HPA tune will pass NYS emissions. :beer:


 :thumbup: Thank you for chiming in. So, it appears that NY is the problem....


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

PooLeArMor said:


> when I had my MKV GTI I have catless DP with APR Stage 2 tune and I am able to pass NYS emissions every year...
> 
> from what I read somewhere long time ago... the minimum requirements to pass the NYS emissions is that no Engine light on with 2 pending CELs will still get u pass.
> 
> ...


 In the case of mk5 FSI cars, they will generally pass with a high-flow cat and a cat-delete file. TSIs are a different case. :thumbup:


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

Ron stopped by this morning. He will pass NY emissions with his current file. :thumbup: 

However, he has a pending post-cat lean code. Hopefully the CEL doesn't get triggered, else he won't be able to pass. :beer:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

As I mentioned to Mike @ Tyrol Sport this morning, I was apprised by Linden/HPA that a 
'rich' condition was addressed by them and corrected through their tuning procedure. 
That being said, I am able to pass N.Y. emissions with no sensor spacer inserts in my 
exhaust. Prior to the install, the CELL condition was 'masked' by 'Tyrol' and would require 
special attention at inspection time. Have been assured by HPA that passing inspection is 
no longer requiring any special attention and that was my #1 concern all along. When others 
report that 02 spacers are required in one combination or another, in order to fool the computer, 
my car has none in order to pass N.Y. inspection and like Keir @ HPA told me, 'We don't do it 
with any tricks', which should be evident by the fact that I don't have to use 02 sensor inserts 
to pass inspection.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

Hi Ron, 

I think you may be mixing a few issues; 

If you have a downpipe with no cat, no fault codes, and you pass emissions in NYS, somewhere, someone, is doing something illegal with their tuning.  

Your check engine light being on or off in regards to the cat efficiency code is not related to the capability of the tuner. It is related to their opinion of the law.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

TyrolSport said:


> If you have a downpipe with no cat, no fault codes, and you pass emissions in NYS, somewhere, someone, is doing something illegal with their tuning. )


 This is all I've been trying to say!


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

TyrolSport said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> I think you may be mixing a few issues;
> 
> ...


 What hasn't been addressed is this. My car is at complete Stage II component level with the 
Borla cat-back and after being flashed I am unable to get any combination of spacers to clear 
my CEL and make me compliant with NY emissions. No recourse concerning a re-evaluation of 
my ECU by APR is offered to me. Now, with the same components, HPA clears my CEL and 
makes me 'NY emissions compliant'. Undoubtedly it had to do with the 'tune' they did since as 
I stated, all components remained constant. When you say they did something illegal with the 
tuning, offering no specifics, and conveniently leave out the fact that after my original 'flash', 
my car must have been illegally tuned when I left your shop after the APR 'flash'. HPA did 
something, for sure, but what they did is just a better tune as I see it.......with no need for 
spacers which tuning shops, including yours, use on a regulat basis to get the ECU to not throw 
any CELs. Also, I was never apprised of the possibility that my car, with the insertion of spacers, 
would not be able to remove a CEL. You say I made this decision but that was not the case. I 
was in your's and APR's hands because of your levels of expertise and never for one moment 
was made to think that there was going to be the possibility that spacers couldn't correct 
whatever developed after the 'flash'. Trying to shift blame to HPA for doing exactly what they 
told me they would do, just because you don't know how they do their tuning, isn't right.


----------



## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

Are we EVER going to see a video of this thing run??? I thought that's what this thread was supposed to be about... HPA K04 kit not just a bunch more talk about who can and can't do something. It's done now! Enjoy it and stop worrying about what APR can or cannot do 

Sucks you had problems with APR and now thankfully your car has HPA tune and no more codes so let's see some damn video!! 

:laugh:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Haven't heard back from USP Motorsports concerning a diferent way to do the traction 
control button set-up. Have to assume they don't have one. Will try to see if my race 
mechanic friend in Mamaroneck can tell me how to disengage the traction control 
temporarily and if so, get me hooked up with his dyno people so we can do another 
'run'. As far as video, first things first. 

P.S. Never thought HPA's ability to make me happy would make others unhappy but 
life is what it is, I guess.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Dscot8r!2 said:


> FWIW - This is the only car I've heard of having this problem. I did my intake and DP before I did my APR Stage 2 tune, and immediately it popped a CEL. I had the code cleared, and it popped on again within a mile of leaving the dealer.
> 
> I went to APR in Opelika two days later, and they cleared the fault with the new program, and in 8+ months no CEL.
> 
> ...


 When you state that you went to APR two days later (after the CEL re-appeared) and they 
cleared the fault with the new program, leads me to believe that this is something I should 
have been offered. No such option was ever mentioned to me and keep in mind, I'm a novice, 
thinking that experts I'm dealing with, were doing everything possible to correct the problem, 
which I now realize they weren't. Put a band-aid on the problem was their solution when another, 
more permanent solution was able to be explored to rectify the problem.


----------



## VuickB6 (Aug 4, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> What hasn't been addressed is this. My car is at complete Stage II component level with the
> Borla cat-back and after being flashed I am unable to get any combination of spacers to clear
> my CEL and make me compliant with NY emissions. No recourse concerning a re-evaluation of
> my ECU by APR is offered to me. Now, with the same components, HPA clears my CEL and
> ...





TyrolSport said:


> Ron stopped by this morning. He will pass NY emissions with his current file. :thumbup:
> 
> However, he has a pending post-cat lean code. Hopefully the CEL doesn't get triggered, else he won't be able to pass. :beer:





TyrolSport said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> I think you may be mixing a few issues;
> 
> ...


 Quoted for posterity...


----------



## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

"Illegal with their tuning." That's a funny line. If my tuner wouldn't turn off a CEL light if he had the capability to, I'd be pissed. Would never have that issue with American muscle.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

stainlineho said:


> "Illegal with their tuning." That's a funny line. If my tuner wouldn't turn off a CEL light if he had the capability to, I'd be pissed. Would never have that issue with American muscle.


 I believe it falls under the category of being willing to spend the extra time in order to try 
your best to make it right.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

ridgemanron said:


> I believe it falls under the category of being willing to spend the extra time in order to try
> your best to make it right.


 Hi Ron, 

Please don't misunderstand my posts. I am the service provider, not the product provider. I am not blaming anyone for anything.  I am trying to clear the air. We have not been discussing performance tuning as it relates to your CEL. We are discussing emissions compliance tuning, which is a completely separate issue. 

I am just trying to make you aware that the vast majority of the larger tuners have the capability of turning off your CEL when you install a no-cat downpipe. However, what they _can_ do and what they are _willing_ to do as it pertains to the law is two separate things. Some tuners are willing to skirt legal issues to keep the CEL off. Some are not. That is a decision made by the tuner. My job as the service provider is to explain this to all of our clients and help them make the best choice possible for their particular needs. :beer: :thumbup: 

To add; We understand that you may not be interested in details of this issue and are just seeking to use whichever company can allow you to run the parts you desire CEL-free. I was just trying to explain why some companies may not offer exactly what you want; it is a decision that they make on how the federal emissions law applies to them. I don't want to derail the discussion further, as most of the readers here are interested in getting your dyno numbers and driving impressions! :thumbup:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

TyrolSport said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> Please don't misunderstand my posts. I am the service provider, not the product provider. I am not blaming anyone for anything.  I am trying to clear the air. We have not been discussing performance tuning as it relates to your CEL. We are discussing emissions compliance tuning, which is a completely separate issue.
> 
> I am just trying to make you aware that the vast majority of the larger tuners have the capability of turning off your CEL when you install a no-cat downpipe. However, what they _can_ do and what they are _willing_ to do as it pertains to the law is two separate things. Some tuners are willing to skirt legal issues to keep the CEL off. Some are not. That is a decision made by the tuner. My job as the service provider is to explain this to all of our clients and help them make the best choice possible for their particular needs. :beer: :thumbup:


 I was never made aware about the re-flash that APR did for our site member Dscot8r!2 was 
available. They did his......but they wouldn't have done mine? At the outset, I was made to 
believe that with all the Stage II components in my car that, at worst, 02 sensor inserts would 
have to be used to make me free of CEL's. Had I been made aware that this was not the case, 
I would have never done the APR flash. With regard to what tuners are willing to do, they both 
tune vehicles with the intention of satisfying a customer's needs and you can't single out one as 
doing something illegal when all they are doing is 'doing it better' if their tweaking of the ECU 
has better results. Had my ECU been re-flashed like Discot8r!2 by APR, would I have had a 
similar result as he? It was never offered to me so what am I to conclude? 

Scenario 1 - Customer is told ECU Flash offered may wind up where he will have to have his 
CEL masked if inserts don't get the desired result. 

Scenario 2 - Customer is told by a different tuner that with the proper time taken to do his 
ECU Flash, he won't have to use inserts or anything else to be 'emission compliant' and 
gives a guarantee to this effect. 

Now I ask you, which tuner would the customer prefer using ?


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

ridgemanron said:


> Scenario 1 - Customer is told ECU Flash offered may wind up where he will have to have his
> CEL masked if inserts don't get the desired result.
> 
> Scenario 2 - Customer is told by a different tuner that with the proper time taken to do his
> ...


 I added to my post above at the same time you responded, so there may be a bit of overlap. My apologies if I am not communicating effectively or appropriately as we seem to not be understanding each other. Let me try another way; 

It would appear that your primary goal is to not have a CEL under any circumstance as it relates to your emissions equipment, and to be able to pass NYS emissions at the same time. If you are given the ability to do this by anyone, it is technically a federal crime. 

I have no issue with any company that provides this service, and I do not have any issue with you if you choose this option. I am just trying to explain that certain US-based tuners do not offer this service. It is not because they can't. It is because they choose not to, as they can get in serious trouble with the EPA if they do. Companies that are smaller and not based in the USA may have a different stance on this issue as they may be less liable for fines or penalties. 

Hopefully that can explain the issue better. My apologies to anyone reading this thread if the discussion was sidetracked. Hopefully those interested in the present discussion can understand what I am trying to communicate.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

TyrolSport said:


> It would appear that your primary goal is to not have a CEL under any circumstance as it relates to your emissions equipment, and to be able to pass NYS emissions at the same time. If you are given the ability to do this by anyone, it is technically a federal crime.


 Exactly why most shops won't install a catless downpipe, as they would be committing a felony as well.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

'Dscot8r!2' had APR re-flash his car to rid him of his cell problem. If a tuner is willfully 
using APR then you are telling me that he is breaking the law. Do you know of any 
tuners working as a conduit for APR with regard to, as it has been stated, illegally 
tuning ECU's and fitting cars with things like downpipes and other speed enhancing 
components? 

P.S. - Seems to me I know of a tuner who had APR 'flash' my ECU with no mention to 
me of anything I should be concerned about, legally. But that same tuner couldn't 
have the same company (APR) re-flash my ECU in order to be CEL free ? Was this 
due to something other than just not willing to do the extra steps in order to correct 
the CEL problem? Oh! It must be the first time is O.K., whereas the second time 
wouldn't be. Yea! that makes sense to me now.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

ridgemanron said:


> 'Dscot8r!2' had APR re-flash his car to rid him of his cell problem. If a tuner is willfully
> using APR then you are telling me that he is breaking the law. Do you know of any
> tuners working as a conduit for APR with regard to, as it has been stated, illegally
> tuning ECU's and fitting cars with things like downpipes and other speed enhancing
> components?


 Correct, Ron. You can have the option of installing the "cat-delete" version of APRs software. This would keep the CEL off. However, it will not pass NYS emissions. The emissions inspection in Dscot8r!2' state may be different. We can only work with the laws in our local area. :beer: 

There are plenty of shops that install "illegal" performance enhancing equipment. It is a risk that some are willing to take, and that others are not. :thumbup:


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

I assume that includes 02 sensor spacers that are installed to help pass inspections as 
well. Anyone you know who installs them to 'trick' the ECU? 

Also, if memory serves me correctly, HPA installed nothing but an upgraded turbo that 
is already in the Golf R. They didn't add 02 spacers or anything else to my car with the 
exception that they 'tweaked' my ECU. Tell me again about illegal behavior concerning 
their actions and none concerning 'tweaking' the ECU which was done by YOUR provider 
APR, with you acting as their conduit.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

Edit.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

ridgemanron said:


> Also, if memory serves me correctly, HPA installed nothing but an upgraded turbo that is already in the Golf R. They didn't add 02 spacers or anything else to my car with the exception that they 'tweaked' my ECU. Tell me again about illegal behavior concerning
> their actions and none concerning 'tweaking' the ECU which was done by YOUR provider
> APR, with you acting as their conduit.


 Hi Ron, 

I think the best bet at this point would be for HPA to come in and explain how their software allows you to run non-factory emissions equipment, not have a CEL, and also pass NYS emissions. This will immediately make the situation clear. :beer: 

-Mike


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 3, 2007)

TyrolSport said:


> Hi Ron,
> 
> I think the best bet at this point would be for HPA to come in and explain how their software allows you to run non-factory emissions equipment, not have a CEL, and also pass NYS emissions. This will immediately make the situation clear. :beer:
> 
> -Mike


 opcorn: 

Wouldn't you like to know.... :laugh: The fact is it works, he's happy I'm really not sure where calling us out as ' illegal tuners ' is helping your situation in any way. 

The only statement I made was his tune was not correct before. Even on a K03 car we can have no check engine lights, we do NOT turn off any emissions code in our software, having the system properly calibrated for the parts installed is what allows it. 

I'm not going to get into a mud slinging competition the only clear thing I've seen here is before = less performance + CEL, now more peformance no CEL and a happy customer. 

Lets just all love the Bug with the K04!


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

[email protected] said:


> opcorn:
> 
> Wouldn't you like to know.... :laugh: The fact is it works, he's happy I'm really not sure where calling us out as ' illegal tuners ' is helping your situation in any way.
> 
> ...


 Hi Keir, 

We're not in any "situation" with Ron. He was here yesterday so that we could check his emissions readiness. We are not in any situation with HPA either. :thumbup: :beer: 

His tune was not "incorrect" before. It was a _legal_ tune for NYS. 

Of course he has more performance now...he upgraded his turbo.  eace:


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## stainlineho (Aug 20, 2011)

Frankly I'm sick of this vendor **** storm in this thread now.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Not being made aware of all aspects of the APR Tune with regard to possible consequences 
the customer could realize, is something I don't approve of. Anyone thinking about adding 
a K04 should think hard and long about who he/she wants to do it. 

When I mentioned all that is going on with regard to this thread, to a race mechanic friend 
of mine, he simply told me that it is clear that HPA has a legal tune that Tyrol Sport is dying 
to know specifics about. In his expert opinion, HPA has better perfected the tune than what 
Tyrol Sport has at their disposal and not knowing how it's accomplished, they decided to 
say 'it must be illegal if we don't know how it's done'. I say they should just tip their cap to 
HPA and move on.


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## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

Our sincerest best wishes to all! :wave:


----------



## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

I guess I'm just going to have to wait for the guy in Georgia who is getting apr kit to see a god damn video and all. 

Why can't you just accept what has happened and move on with life? No offense Ron but you seem to flog every dead horse you come upon until there is nothing left... As I've said before and even as HPA is saying now, you're happy and you ended up with what you want. Enjoy it and get this thread back to what it was SUPPOSED to be about


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

ridgemanron said:


> Early on, when I mentioned my APR Stage II
> set up not being able to stop throwing CEL's because the computer was not registering enough
> air after all 02 sensor inserts had been removed to allow the most air possible, I was assured
> by 'Linden's HPA Technician' that CEl's would be no problem with his K04 software and he was
> ...


 Sorry, but that just means you didn't have our testpipe software. Our testpipe software doesn't throw a CEL when changing the catalytic converter.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry, but that just means you didn't have our testpipe software. Our testpipe software doesn't throw a CEL when changing the catalytic converter.


 Can't pass inspection with your test pipe file. That's what Ron needed, as well as myself lol.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Dscot8r!2 said:


> You seemed to have real heartburn over the way you were treated by APR, that's unfortunate.


 Yeah, I don't get it. All I'm seeing is loads of false information about APR. 

Did one of our employees run over this guys dog or something? 

Sheash!!! :laugh:


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

drtechy said:


> Can't pass inspection with your test pipe file. That's what Ron needed, as well as myself lol.


 The stock non testpipe file allows all tests to run in stock mode. 

In chipped mode, they don't run, and as such the CEL is eliminated. 

If you're asking us to force readiness bits or do other things in the software to trick readiness to pass, sorry, that's a federal crime, so no thanks.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> The stock non testpipe file allows all tests to run in stock mode.
> 
> In chipped mode, they don't run, and as such the CEL is eliminated.
> 
> If you're asking us to force readiness bits or do other things in the software to trick readiness to pass, sorry, that's a federal crime, so no thanks.


 I'm gonna PM you to understand this a little more so it's not a thread jack.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

ridgemanron said:


> When you state that you went to APR two days later (after the CEL re-appeared) and they
> cleared the fault with the new program, leads me to believe that this is something I should
> have been offered.


 It just means he got the Testpipe file for his exhaust system. 

Testpipe software has been available for YEARS. There is absolutely nothing new about it at all.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It just means he got the Testpipe file for his exhaust system.
> 
> Testpipe software has been available for YEARS. There is absolutely nothing new about it at all.


 Nevermind since you open the door, but with the testpipe file you won't pass inspection correct? That's what this whole CEL thing has been about, not just seeing the annoying light on the dash.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> The only statement I made was his tune was not correct before. Even on a K03 car we can have no check engine lights, we do NOT turn off any emissions code in our software, *having the system properly calibrated for the parts installed* is what allows it.


 Correct. 

This is the highly illegal bit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

drtechy said:


> Nevermind since you open the door, but with the testpipe file you won't pass inspection correct? That's what this whole CEL thing has been about, not just seeing the annoying light on the dash.


 It depends on the state and what their requirements are. Every state is different. Almost every one of them requires you to run an OEM catalyst, or an approved replacement catalyst, which no tuner is selling.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

[email protected] said:


> It depends on the state and what their requirements are. Every state is different. Almost every one of them requires you to run an OEM catalyst, or an approved replacement catalyst, which no tuner is selling.


 Boom, that's what I thought! Thank you for confirming my suspicions!


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Ron's 'dead horse' has been resurrected by outside sources !


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

No just staying off track from what this started to be. Or what I thought it to be I guess....


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris659 said:


> No just staying off track from what this started to be. Or what I thought it to be I guess....


 You, being a big fan of video, should go down a contact list of the 'Gang of 28' Beetle owners 
that have the APR K04 installed and see if they have film available for you to see. Then you 
can join me in the 'Happy Camper Club'. I just wish my dog would stop growling when he 
walks by the back of my car and stares at my APR badge so he can be happy too !


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## 02VWGTIVR6 (Jan 31, 2002)

i read the whole thing. this is what i got: 

Ron wants to have software with no CEL/downpipe/and pass emissions where he lives 
what he wants is illegal 
Ron doesn't know this, or doesn't care, he just wants the CEL off 
APR won't do it because it is illegal 
HPA will do it 
Ron installs Hpa 
Ron is happy


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

02VWGTIVR6 said:


> i read the whole thing. this is what i got:
> 
> Ron wants to have software with no CEL/downpipe/and pass emissions where he lives
> what he wants is illegal
> ...


 Not quite. Ron was told by APR tuner that, if necessary, 02 sensor spacers would keep him 
free of CEl's. Had he been told this may not happen, he would not have engaged tuner. 
HPA informed Ron that without using spacers he would be tuned and have no CEL problem. 
Original tuner doesn't know how HPA was able to tune car in a way that he wasn't able to 
and decides it must be illegal. Still, he wants to know how it was done since his expertise 
didn't permit him to know how. Ron allows original tuner to plug-in to his computer and is 
told the car will pass inspection in N.Y.. Ron is happy !


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

ridgemanron said:


> Not quite. Ron was told by APR tuner that, if necessary, 02 sensor spacers would keep him
> free of CEl's. Had he been told this may not happen, he would not have engaged tuner.
> HPA informed Ron that without using spacers he would be tuned and have no CEL problem.
> *Original tuner doesn't know how HPA was able to tune car in a way that he wasn't able to
> ...


 Sorry Ron, but this is wrong. 

If you want the CEL off, we can do that. 

If you want the CEL off and you want to pass readiness, you need to cheat the readiness test, which is highly illegal.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Anyone got popcorn?


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry Ron, but this is wrong.
> 
> If you want the CEL off, we can do that.
> 
> If you want the CEL off and you want to pass readiness, you need to cheat the readiness test, which is highly illegal.


 And exactly what was Tyrol Sport going to do, for an extra $100 over the normanl N.Y. Inspection 
fee, in order make me pass each year? Something legal or illegal ? Also, if the 02 sensor spacers 
would have worked out, would I be doing something legal or illegal? Stop with your 'cherry picking' 
with what you want to use against others who aren't affiliated with APR. 

P.S. - And are their any items APR will sell to private party, that you claim tuners can't have, 
but then when the illegal product is placed in a car, you have no problem with that? You're 
so full of it it's laughable.


----------



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

ridgemanron said:


> And exactly what was Tyrol Sport going to do, for an extra $100 over the normanl N.Y. Inspection
> fee, in order make me pass each year? Something legal or illegal ? Also, if the 02 sensor spacers
> would have worked out, would I be doing something legal or illegal? Stop with your 'cherry picking'
> with what you want to use against others who aren't affiliated with APR.


 lol. I'm done. This is a complete waste of time. 

If anyone's interested in correct information, feel free to contact us.


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

Anything, and I mean anything that fools with that O2 sensor reading the gasses that come out of your exhaust correctly is a felony! It's even a felony for a shop to install a catless downpipe on any car that had one originally.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> lol. I'm done. This is a complete waste of time.
> 
> If anyone's interested in correct information, feel free to contact us.


 Of course you're done.......when you don't want to answer questions that you know 
are facts. Maybe we should have some legal people contact you for your 'correct' 
information and have them get it on tape.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> Of course you're done.......when you don't want to answer questions that you know
> are facts. Maybe we should have some leagal people contact you for your 'correct'
> information and have them get it on tape.


 wow, this is the last time I'm posting in this thread, but bro you are out of line at this point. You used to do nothing but promote and be up APR's ass, and now you're bashing Arin. Lame


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

drtechy said:


> wow, this is the last time I'm posting in this thread, but bro you are out of line at this point. You used to do nothing but promote and be up APR's ass, and now you're bashing Arin. Lame


 You're the biggest a$$ kisser I've ever seen when it suits you. But I can fully understand why you 
wanted to contact him secretly since it's plain as day.


----------



## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

ridgemanron said:


> You're the biggest a$$ kisser I've ever seen when it suits you. But I can fully understand why you
> wanted to contact him secretly since it's plain as day.


 as I posted earlier, I didn't end up PM'ing him, I asked him the question right on this thread. Get your head out of your A$$ and you might actually see what is the truth. Guess that wasn't my last time, but I'm done now. Feel free to reply again and get the last word in.


----------



## TyrolSport (Mar 4, 1999)

ridgemanron said:


> And exactly what was Tyrol Sport going to do, for an extra $100 over the normanl N.Y. Inspection
> fee, in order make me pass each year? Something legal or illegal ?


 Ron, 

It seems that I have been unsuccessful in explaining this to you in a way you can understand. Again, my apologies, as I really do want you to understand it. :thumbup: 

If you have cat-delete/test pipe software which keeps the CEL off, you can still legally pass inspection. Every year, you would need to come in, reflash the ECU with the regular non-test pipe software, attempt to generate emissions readiness, pass the test, and then reflash with the test pipe software again(to keep the light off). This usually takes anywhere from 1.5-2.5 hours to complete, hence the labor charge. If you are able to generate emissions readiness with a non-test pipe software, everything is 100% legal. :beer: 

With your new software, you will have your cake and eat it as well. You will be able to run your downpipe, not have a CEL, and pass emissions. However, this is 100% illegal according to the EPA. Will you get caught? Nope. Will HPA get it trouble? Nope. Do I have an issue with your solution? Nope. Am I happy that you found a solution that works for you? Absolutely! Carry on.  eace:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

drtechy said:


> as I posted earlier, I didn't end up PM'ing him, I asked him the question right on this thread. Get your head out of your A$$ and you might actually see what is the truth. Guess that wasn't my last time, but I'm done now. Feel free to reply again and get the last word in.


 All these people dealing in technically illegal items are now trying to promote themselves as 
'squeaky clean' and point at others doing something wrong. And you're at the top of the list 
with your boyfriend Arin.


----------



## ViRtUaLheretic (Aug 17, 2008)

APR non testpipe file on MKV TSI *CBFA* motor with 42D spacer on 2nd o2 sensor w/ jetted spark plug non fouler stacked with a un jetted spark plug non fouler combined with Wayne Angle Block on 3rd o2 sensor with jetted spark plug non fouler = CEL free and will pass Missouri (St Louis) emissions. 

Link to thread of TSI ECU tuning emission debate as to not junk up this thread: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5682163-CBFA-Highflow-Cat-Testpipe-CEL-Fix-Thread


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## Dscot8r!2 (Dec 18, 2012)

ridgemanron said:


> I was never made aware about the re-flash that APR did for our site member Dscot8r!2 was
> available. They did his......but they wouldn't have done mine? At the outset, I was made to
> believe that with all the Stage II components in my car that, at worst, 02 sensor inserts would
> have to be used to make me free of CEL's. Had I been made aware that this was not the case,
> ...


 Haven't checked this thread in a day or two and it blew up. :what: 

Ron, I just wanted to clarify. My Beetle's ECU was completely stock when I was popping CELs. The downpipe was causing that issue, but I was aware it was going to happen. I was stating the *one and only* Stage 2 file APR loaded to my ECU has been faultless to this point. 

I know we're past that now, I just didn't want you to think they did something for me, that they didn't do for you. 

It really seems like Arin and Mike are trying. At the end of the day all we have is our integrity, and I believe they've shown theirs. They've tried to chime in, be constructive, and genuinely find a solution to your problem. 

I hope you're happy with your HPA kit, and you can "get around" NY's pesky emission laws. eace:


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Dscot8r!2 said:


> Haven't checked this thread in a day or two and it blew up. :what:
> 
> Ron, I just wanted to clarify. My Beetle's ECU was completely stock when I was popping CELs. The downpipe was causing that issue, but I was aware it was going to happen. I was stating the *one and only* Stage 2 file APR loaded to my ECU has been faultless to this point.
> 
> ...


 If anyone takes the time to check, you will see it was an APR tuner who conveniently ignores 
the fact of his willingness to use 02 sensor spacers to 'trick' the ECU when he talks about 
illegal actions. There are other 'technically' illegal parts that tuners deal with every day and I 
just don't understand why HPA's ability to get my car to pass inspection falls under the 
category of illegal, but 02 sensor spacers and other 'technically' illegal parts tuners are willing 
to install for profit are perfectly acceptable, even when they know state laws could 'technically' 
consider them unacceptable.


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

Not wasting any more time reading this non sense 

Unsubscribed


----------



## VuickB6 (Aug 4, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> If anyone takes the time to check, you will see it was an APR tuner who conveniently ignores
> the fact of his willingness to use 02 sensor spacers to 'trick' the ECU when he talks about
> illegal actions. There are other 'technically' illegal parts that tuners deal with every day and I
> just don't understand why HPA's ability to get my car to pass inspection falls under the
> ...


 
The answers have been spelled out for you quite clearly several times in the thread. And you keep asking the same questions along with some childish bull**** about your dog, drtechy and arin, and some "legal" people. At this point it seems you've gone full retard and there is nothing we can do to help. 

Have fun with your HPA kit. I would say let us know about that pending CEL but I'd bet money you wouldn't say anything for fear of looking dumb. 

Good day :beer:


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

VuickB6 said:


> The answers have been spelled out for you quite clearly several times in the thread. And you keep asking the same questions along with some childish bull**** about your dog, drtechy and arin, and some "legal" people. At this point it seems you've gone full retard and there is nothing we can do to help.
> 
> Have fun with your HPA kit. I would say let us know about that pending CEL but I'd bet money you wouldn't say anything for fear of looking dumb.
> 
> Good day :beer:


 Normal IQ's run from 90 - 110. I can see your's must be well south of those numbers . Looking 
dumb and being dumb are definitely traits you possess and the levels concerning them that 
you have reached would be impossible for me to attain. 

P.S. - Maybe if that CEL returns, you can get me a deal on those illegal sensor inserts you and 
all your friends use. Last time I looked, I didn't have any.


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## PooLeArMor (Aug 13, 2008)

Hey ridgemanron I want to ask u a question, did u actually fail the NYS emissions test with the APR Stage 2 testpipe file and APR DP with no CEL on board?? 

becaz if u only have 1 reading fail u will still pass the NYS emissions . 
so I just want to make sure that u did fail the NYS emissions or not... and how can u be sure that HPA software will get u pass the NYS emissions ?? 


New York has adopted the federal Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) guidance concerning readiness during OBD inspections. A vehicle will fail the NYVIP OBD II inspection if enough monitors are reported as “Not Ready.” Generally, OBD II vehicles from model year 1996 to model year 2000, inclusive, will fail if 3 or more monitors are set as “Not Ready;”* while model year 2001 and newer vehicles will fail when 2 or more monitors are reported as “Not Ready.” *There are a few vehicle exceptions to these guidelines, but the NYVIP inspection software makes these cases transparent to the inspector. Consistent with federal guidance, the three continuous monitors are not considered in the readiness determination as these are anticipated to be Ready.


----------



## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

PooLeArMor said:


> Hey ridgemanron I want to ask u a question, did u actually fail the NYS emissions test with the APR Stage 2 testpipe file and APR DP with no CEL on board??
> 
> becaz if u only have 1 reading fail u will still pass the NYS emissions .
> so I just want to make sure that u did fail the NYS emissions or not... and how can u be sure that HPA software will get u pass the NYS emissions ??
> ...


 I was told by the APR tuner upon completion of my flash that he was unable to use any 
combination of 02 sensor inserts in order to make me compliant with N.Y. emissions. I had been 
told upon my getting the 'flash' that sensors would , for sure, take care of this but when this 
did not prove to be the case he was able to turn the 'light' off but informed me that in order to 
pass inspection each year that he would have to do something special to accomplish it.....and 
it would cost me an extra $100. 

When HPA informs me that 1. Fit of the K04 won't be a problem and 2. I will no longer have to 
worry passing inspection after they install their software.....using no inserts. When this was 
offered to me in the form of a guaranty I decided to go ahead with the installation. 

I didn't get the car back until they sent it out for the dyno and when I went to the APR tuner 
I had used originally, he stated that the car was in a 'pass inspection mode', not requiring me 
to pay that 'special attention' $100 fee he informed me of...after the fact. He stated that their 
was a history of a 'rich' code that was taken care of to allow me to be in the 'pass inspection' 
mode the car was in now. He asked if I had accomplished this with inserts and I said there were 
none in my exhaust. 

I mentioned all this to the HPA people and was told that it is not uncommon for an initial 'rich' 
code to appear and that it would be taken care of and place me in the 'No CEL', 'pass inspection' 
mode. If a CEL did appear again, that too would be no problem and again I would be back in 
'pass inspection' mode with no need for the inserts. As best as I understood it, different mixtures 
of gasoline...in different parts of the country, as well as the world, combined with climate 
conditions that also vary greatly, can affect the 'tune'. They told me that you have to take the 
necessary time to overcome these obstacles but that once you do, no more of the specific problem 
will be present. 

It was clear that the APR tuner did not know how HPA accomplished what they did and tried on 
this thread to get them to reveal it, which HPA would not do. The tuner decided to throw out 
the word 'illegal' but had already admitted he didn't know what had been done. Keep in mind 
that before you start calling out someone else for being illegal, make sure you are not ever 
doing anything illegal. 

All I know is that I went from having to realize that future yearly inspections at a cost to me 
of $100 for the special attention needed, would not be required with where HPA has placed me. 

I assume selling the car, if that were to occur in the future, would also have placed the new 
owner in this 'special attention' requirement, that I do not even know if a different tuner would 
agree to do, as against the HPA set-up which allows you to pass inspection without anything 
other than paying the standard State fee. 

P.S. - Am 'back on track' to have the USP traction control kit installed. USP never got back to 
me with an alternate connection procedure but Linden VW says they can get to the wiring 
through the opening below my dash mounted gauge pod. Should have the kit installed next 
week and then we can re-do the dyno without having the traction control hampering performance.


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> P.S. - Am 'back on track' to have the USP traction control kit installed. USP never got back to
> me with an alternate connection procedure but Linden VW says they can get to the wiring
> through the opening below my dash mounted gauge pod. Should have the kit installed next
> week and then we can re-do the dyno without having the traction control hampering performance.


About time!! 

so you made 277whp w/esp still active? damn!


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

Can we all play nice please? This is the only warning I'm going to give. There's good information here, so I don't want to have to lock this thread up.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

The traction control kit is due to arrive any day, but since I also decided to add the ECS
clutch bleeder block, it look's like we will have to wait until next week to get everything
installed and then have the car go through the dyno with the TC 'off'. Hopefully, Linden VW
will be able to fit me in amongst all those R32 cars they've been working on.

Linden has me slotted in for next Friday, the 17th. Hoping they can do the installation work
and still have time to take it to the dyno people nearby.


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> The traction control kit is due to arrive any day, but since I also decided to add the ECS
> clutch bleeder block, it look's like we will have to wait until next week to get everything
> installed and then have the car go through the dyno with the TC 'off'. Hopefully, Linden VW
> will be able to fit me in amongst all those R32 cars they've been working on.
> ...


Update?


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

superwtc said:


> Update?


The TC continues to click on, even when placed in the off position. There must be a back-up
of some kind in the ECU that would have to be disconnected but I haven't really followed up
on it. The original dyno run had me at 272hp and 322tq but the hp graff veered off at its high
point and then looked as if it was going to go up again. Keep in mind that my first priority is
making sure I'm able to pass strict NY emissions requirements and HPA's tweaking of the ECU,
without 02 sensor inserts, is what I really like having. If it means a little less power, then I can
live with that.


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> The TC continues to click on, even when placed in the off position. There must be a back-up
> of some kind in the ECU that would have to be disconnected but I haven't really followed up
> on it. The original dyno run had me at 272hp and 322tq but the hp graff veered off at its high
> point and then looked as if it was going to go up again. Keep in mind that my first priority is
> ...


Interesting 

Was coding preformed for the TC? Is coding needed?


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

superwtc said:


> Interesting
> 
> Was coding preformed for the TC? Is coding needed?


As far as I know, the TC kit was a simple install that just sent a signal for the Traction Control
to show as 'on' or 'off' by pressing one connection 'button' situated on the center dash. The
actual return to 'on' that happens when the car is being pushed hard, like when it is on a dyno 
run and the computer feels required to add more control for safety's sake, makes the computer
alert the TC to 'kick back in'. This could explain the momentary 'dip' the graff recorded since 
the smoothness of the run was interferred with, be it ever so slightly, but enough to affect the
end result of the test.


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> As far as I know, the TC kit was a simple install that just sent a signal for the Traction Control
> to show as 'on' or 'off' by pressing one connection 'button' situated on the center dash. The
> actual return to 'on' that happens when the car is being pushed hard, like when it is on a dyno
> run and the computer feels required to add more control for safety's sake, makes the computer
> ...


Sounds like ESC, read up on this. I'm not sure if it applies to you but worth looking into! :laugh:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5903103-DIY-ESC-defeat&p=79966644&viewfull=1#post79966644


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

superwtc said:


> Sounds like ESC, read up on this. I'm not sure if it applies to you but worth looking into! :laugh:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5903103-DIY-ESC-defeat&p=79966644&viewfull=1#post79966644


Was hoping it could be done by simply disconnecting a fuse !


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## superwtc (Feb 19, 2006)

ridgemanron said:


> Was hoping it could be done by simply disconnecting a fuse !


Why not try the vag com procedure as mentioned above?


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## 9900rpm (Mar 26, 2008)

ESC defeat is done with VCDS coding, as superwtc said. APR even had a page on their site, in which you can copy your coding, and it spits out the new coding, with ESC defeated. 

http://www.goapr.com/support/esp-defeat.html

I'm suprised you don't know about this. I would have thought that all k04 people would be doing this to their cars. HPA/Linden/APR never mentioned this to you?


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## drtechy (Jun 3, 2009)

9900rpm said:


> ESC defeat is done with VCDS coding, as superwtc said. APR even had a page on their site, in which you can copy your coding, and it spits out the new coding, with ESC defeated.
> 
> http://www.goapr.com/support/esp-defeat.html
> 
> I'm suprised you don't know about this. I would have thought that all k04 people would be doing this to their cars. HPA/Linden/APR never mentioned this to you?


This didn't work on my beetle, just an fyi, but I've done it on a bunch GTI's and GLI's


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## RyanMonaghan (Apr 19, 2013)

*uhh*

hey i just got off the dyno with my 2013 turbo that has a APR stg 2 tune, carbonio intake (stg 1 and 2), borla catback, and APR downpipe and my hp readings were at just shy of 273 hp... there is more than enough power from the stock turbo if you map/boost gauge it right i think... is the KO4 upgrade really worth it??


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

RyanMonaghan said:


> hey i just got off the dyno with my 2013 turbo that has a APR stg 2 tune, carbonio intake (stg 1 and 2), borla catback, and APR downpipe and my hp readings were at just shy of 273 hp... there is more than enough power from the stock turbo if you map/boost gauge it right i think... is the KO4 upgrade really worth it??


I had an APR Stage II with all the same components as you but I was unable to pass NY's 
strict emission requirements with it unless the APR tuner did a temporary adjustment that
masks the signal to the ECU. This would cost $100 more yearly and could prove to be a problem
if the car was sold to someone who either didn't have access to a tuner who can repeat the
masking procedure or someone who would balk at not being able to pass inspection in the
normal way at any inspection center they choose. With my HPA K04 set-up I feel more linear
power going to the wheels and constantly building more than when I had the Stage II, but I
also pass NY inspection without 02 sensor inserts and this is 'priority one' for me as well as
might be the case for anyone I might ever sell the car to.


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## Vwguy026 (May 1, 2013)

That's a pretty awesome setup with the K04 very nice. One day ill hope to get it myself.

For now I have the APR Tune Stage 1 and Carbino Stage 1 and I actually met some of the APR guys down at Waterfest, NJ. They were really nice and installed the Intake for me while I was at the show. I also have the USP Traction Button Kit which i also got at waterfest and it amazing to be able to brake the tires loose with little to no effort. I could only image with the K04!


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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

RyanMonaghan said:


> hey i just got off the dyno with my 2013 turbo that has a APR stg 2 tune, carbonio intake (stg 1 and 2), borla catback, and APR downpipe and my hp readings were at just shy of 273 hp... there is more than enough power from the stock turbo if you map/boost gauge it right i think... is the KO4 upgrade really worth it??


I'm curious about this too. I spent the weekend with a MkVI GTI with K04 and it certainly felt the APR quoted 350HP to me, significantly massively greater power than my Chipped 2.0T. basically putting down at the wheels what I do at the crank on 93 o


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## Jedidub (Oct 6, 2010)

There's a lot of unnecessary bickering on this thread, c'mon guys I expect to see this type of thing on the mk4 forum, but not here. Anyway I'm glad Florida doesn't have emissions testing.


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

Jedidub said:


> Anyway I'm glad Florida doesn't have emissions testing.


Me too! Hopefully soon I'll be able to start on some performance mods 

Just got my 61 rag top on the road but it needs some more love so I'm torn between which one to spend money on


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## ever12 (Sep 13, 2005)

Hey, the build looks great! Making me consider picking up a beetle and doing the swap. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost with labor and everything to do the k04 swap at Linden?


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## LindsayLowhan (May 29, 2010)

You have one to many stickers and badges on your Beetle and the new shifter looks cheap.:thumbdown:


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

LindsayLowhan said:


> You have one to many stickers and badges on your Beetle and the new shifter looks cheap.:thumbdown:


you forgot this


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

ever12 said:


> Hey, the build looks great! Making me consider picking up a beetle and doing the swap. If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost with labor and everything to do the k04 swap at Linden?


Since my Beetle was the first one to be done with HPA's K04, they enticed me with a special price. Suggest you
check with Dennis at Linden's service facility on E. Elizabeth Street and ask if they have any special pricing being
offered in the near future? I love the fact that they are an official VW dealership that is mod-friendly and well 
versed in huge power upgrades for VW's. Some of the R 32's I saw them working on in their shop would blow
your mind. My TB is reluctant to enter the workshop area when those 'big boys' are 'growling' in their work bays LOL.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

LindsayLowhan said:


> You have one to many stickers and badges on your Beetle and the new shifter looks cheap.:thumbdown:


Since my friend's shifter served as the prototype for my custom made one, I guess I'll have to tell him to take
it out of his Audi R8 too!


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## JPeezy (Mar 30, 2007)

you should heavily considered changing your Turbo outlet and throttle pipes to let that k04 breath better stock ones are way too restrictive. Made a huge difference in my old k04 setup.


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## [email protected] (Mar 9, 2007)

ridgemanron said:


> ...Suggest you
> check with Linden's service facility on E. Elizabeth Street and ask if they have any special pricing being
> offered in the near future...


Ask for Ken Pescatore @ Linden VW, Dennis is not longer there...:thumbup:


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

sp33dy said:


> you should heavily considered changing your Turbo outlet and throttle pipes to let that k04 breath better stock ones are way too restrictive. Made a huge difference in my old k04 setup.


Will mention it to Mike and Ken @ Linden, prior to my going in for all the stuff I already need
to have installed this spring. They incluse the SPM Big Brake upgrade, GFB Diverter Valve, 
Unitronic Diverter Valve Relocation and their Cold Air Intake. Waiting to hear from Ryan (HYDE16),
once he's had a chance to test various strength springs for the DV to avoid 'fluttering' as much as
possible. Also waiting on the CBFA 'mini-breather' that was out of stock at Unitronic but but should 
be coming soon. Am also going to remove my trunk lid spoiler and replace it with the Wing Trunk
Spoiler Duraflex made for the 98-05 Beetle. I like it better than the one that they made for the 
Beetles from 06 - 11.


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## ever12 (Sep 13, 2005)

ridgemanron said:


> Since my Beetle was the first one to be done with HPA's K04, they enticed me with a special price. Suggest you
> check with Dennis at Linden's service facility on E. Elizabeth Street and ask if they have any special pricing being
> offered in the near future? I love the fact that they are an official VW dealership that is mod-friendly and well
> versed in huge power upgrades for VW's. Some of the R 32's I saw them working on in their shop would blow
> your mind. My TB is reluctant to enter the workshop area when those 'big boys' are 'growling' in their work bays LOL.


Thanks for the info! It's awesome that they're actually a dealership and not some shady people wrenching away in their "tuning shop." Definitely will be contacting them in the near future! :beer:


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

You'll definitely have the best of both worlds at 'Linden'. Damn, even the hand washing and interior dealing
they do to my car, for free, each time I go there, is great. I can never get my windows cleaned as good
as they get them.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

sp33dy said:


> you should heavily considered changing your Turbo outlet and throttle pipes to let that k04 breath better stock ones are way too restrictive. Made a huge difference in my old k04 setup.


Did see where USP Motorsports has both a Spulen Throttle Pipe, and a Turbo Outlet Pipe
for K04. They're listed for $160 each.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

USP offers the Turbo Outlet Pipe and Throttle Pipe upgrades in a package that lowered the
overall price to $280. Just make sure you notify them if you have a K04 . If not, they could
send you the wrong unit. Luckily for me, Jesse noted my stating having a K04 on my internet
order, which wasn't originally noticed by USP, and made sure the correct order went out. :thumbup:


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

If you catch them while they're on sale they're usually only $200 for both! Got mine during the Christmas sale. The added bonus with the Spulen brand is that the throttle pipe also comes with the silicone throttle body hose whereas with other brands it's separate...

Noticed a big difference once both were installed ( I only have the stock turbo but...)


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris659 said:


> If you catch them while they're on sale they're usually only $200 for both! Got mine during the Christmas sale. The added bonus with the Spulen brand is that the throttle pipe also comes with the silicone throttle body hose whereas with other brands it's separate...
> 
> Noticed a big difference once both were installed ( I only have the stock turbo but...)


Both items are Spulen and are complete kits.


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## Chris659 (Nov 16, 2012)

I understand. I was comparing the Spulen brand versus others such as Neuspeed, etc. they require you spend an extra $40 on the throttle body pipe boot or elbow whatever you'd like to call it from companies like Forge. 

For those of you wanting to buy the Spulen brand, You won't find the package price on USP's site unless you search for items by brand. If you search by vehicle then it will only show the individual pipes at full retail.


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Chris659 said:


> I understand. I was comparing the Spulen brand versus others such as Neuspeed, etc. they require you spend an extra $40 on the throttle body pipe boot or elbow whatever you'd like to call it from companies like Forge.
> 
> For those of you wanting to buy the Spulen brand, You won't find the package price on USP's site unless you search for items by brand. If you search by vehicle then it will only show the individual pipes at full retail.


You're right. I originally ordered individually but then was notified that the price was reduced from $160 per, and the
two items would be combined for $280. USP found another $9.00 I should be refunded, so my delivered price is now
down to $271.


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