# some stock piston and cylinder bore info



## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

just thought a few might be interested in some stock piston and cylinder bore info and some pics cuz i kno people will be wanting to do some upgrades shortly with all these big turbo kits coming out








BPY engine
manufactured- from 03.05
emission values in accordance with- ULEV 2
displacement- 1984
bore- 82.5
stroke- 92.8
compression ratio- 10.5:1
valves per cylinder- 4
connection rod bearing pins diameter- 47.80
piston diameter- 82.465 (measurement without graphite coasting 0.02mm thick.) the graphite coasting wears off.
cylinder bore diameter- 82.51
















































not sure if anyone is interested in this or if this helps anybody out but i just wanted to make this information more available to the public more to come shortly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Thats nice...
So is it true earlier AXX and maybe BPY (US) engines have forged rather than the later cast pistons ??


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_Thats nice...
So is it true earlier AXX and maybe BPY (US) engines have forged rather than the later cast pistons ??










Looking at this pic its a CAST piston IMO







Bob.G



_Modified by rracerguy717 at 9:19 AM 12-13-2007_


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_not sure if anyone is interested in this or if this helps anybody out but i just wanted to make this information more available to the public more to come shortly http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks for sharing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Bob.G


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## RoadRager (Sep 5, 2006)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

Thanks, looks beautiful.


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_

Looking at this pic its a CAST piston IMO







Bob.G

_Modified by rracerguy717 at 9:19 AM 12-13-2007_

Than maybe only AXX engines have forged pistons ?
Also, isn't the BPY's CR 10.3:1 , as the newer european BWA ?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Than maybe only AXX engines have forged pistons ?
Also, isn't the BPY's CR 10.3:1 , as the newer european BWA ?

vw says 10.5:1 if i knew how to do a screen shot i would post the actual page from elsaweb
all the info up top is nothing i measured it is just information from vw directly


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

print screen right next to f12 or in that vacinity
then open ms paint ctrl v


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

good lookin out chris


























_Modified by [email protected] at 8:48 AM 12-14-2007_


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## smd3 (Aug 5, 2001)

I'm going to take a quick stab, since I don't have the pictures in front of me...
It looks like they moved the rings down a bunch from the 1.8t.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (smd3)*

I've got a stock and an aftermarket 1.8t on my desk and the top ring is lower on the 1.8t piston. but its aftermarket so who knows exactly.


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

Too bad Audi stayed with the tappered rod design.Piston looks good though


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

....that piston looks just like the one on my desk.....


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_....that piston looks just like the one on my desk.....

screw the one on your desk i wanna see how sexy the JE looks


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
screw the one on your desk i wanna see how sexy the JE looks









One thing i would like to discuss about the piston is the dome design that compliments FSI .any thought???







Bob.G


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
One thing i would like to discuss about the piston is the dome design that compliments FSI .any thought???







Bob.G

i kno why it's their but i don't know the ill effects if its not their, i believe the pistons vf used did not have the dome...and i am pretty sure their car ran fine...im not really sure if it is needed or not


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## b00stin_02917 (Aug 11, 2006)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

i never knew that our motors had a variable valve timing (I got MAD vTEC YO AnD A turbo!!).. along with 2 knock sensors... i guess 1 is not enough now adays for these motors.


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
i believe the pistons vf used did not have the dome...and i am pretty sure their car ran fine...im not really sure if it is needed or not








 
Im not saying and doubting its going to work and work well. 
But can a special shaped dome that directs the flame travel take full advantage of direct injection more than a standard dish turbo piston?? .
Remember a standard dish is alot cheaper too machine /produce with a cnc lathe and a 2 axis mill , comparing to lets say a special dome piston that needs a cnc lathe and 5 axis mill. 
Just trying to think out of the box because of the new direct injection cutting edge technology, maybe its just too early in R & D with this engine .







Bob.G


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rracerguy717)*

Remember guys, the piston above is a stock piston as well, so VW did some home work on it as well and the complex top on the earlier FSI units may be just a bit of overkill. Yes, the dish piston is cheaper to make and yes the complex crown piston is better for power and fuel burn, but the cost to manufacture...... That is one reason why VW has the dish piston.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_ 
Im not saying and doubting its going to work and work well. 
But can a special shaped dome that directs the flame travel take full advantage of direct injection more than a standard dish turbo piston?? .
Remember a standard dish is alot cheaper too machine /produce with a cnc lathe and a 2 axis mill , comparing to lets say a special dome piston that needs a cnc lathe and 5 axis mill. 
Just trying to think out of the box because of the new direct injection cutting edge technology, maybe its just too early in R & D with this engine .







Bob.G



The piston pictured above is our stock piston. That is what is in your car and mine. The ones that have shown up here in pictures with the raised dome are not what we have in turbo engines they are the stratified NA engines.
If you are referring to the above vs one with a regular flat dish where it tapers in near the edge and then goes flat again then that is what needs to be tested. Others have already used it and not had problems. To do a dish like above is about 200 bucks more per set retail.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (b00stin_02917)*


_Quote, originally posted by *b00stin_02917* »_i never knew that our motors had a variable valve timing (I got MAD vTEC YO AnD A turbo!!).. along with 2 knock sensors... i guess 1 is not enough now adays for these motors.

Vws had variable valve timing for years and two knock sensors forever also. 
Our variable valve timing is not like the variable lift of vtec though.


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_









And this is....?????


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (GolfRS)*

Custom JE FSI Piston


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_Custom JE FSI Piston

What CR is that do you know ??


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (GolfRS)*

Stock


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_Stock

Stock as in 10.5:1 ??
Then what's so "custom" about it ??
Is it like surface R&D-ed ??


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rhussjr)*

would that happen to be my piston


_Modified by [email protected] at 3:41 PM 2-6-2008_


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

Could be


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## 02GTI-VR6-same1 (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (GolfRS)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GolfRS* »_
Stock as in 10.5:1 ??
Then what's so "custom" about it ??
Is it like surface R&D-ed ??









shape of the dome has a pretty big effect on combustion


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rhussjr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhussjr* »_








 
Very nice ,available in different / lower C.R?? LMK thanks







Bob.G


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## Audi4u (Jun 29, 2002)

The dish is there so fuel doesn't hit the cylinder walls, keeps the emissions lower.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (Audi4u)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Audi4u* »_The dish is there so fuel doesn't hit the cylinder walls, keeps the emissions lower.

and does that and then some...im getting stressed maybe i need to go smoke a bowl










_Modified by [email protected] at 12:14 PM 2-7-2008_


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## im_a_local (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: ([email protected])*

why is everyone so nuts about low compression.

oh and Q for [email protected] : do you have access for the valve to piston clearance? thanks in advance


_Modified by im_a_local at 5:54 PM 2-9-2008_


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
i kno why it's their but i don't know the ill effects if its not their, i believe the pistons vf used did not have the dome...and i am pretty sure their car ran fine...im not really sure if it is needed or not









our pistons both JE and VF-proprietary both retain the "FSI-dish". Below is our proprietary 8.8 compression Forged piston which we use with Pauter rods. 
We have them in stock if anyone is interested.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

this isn't a sales thread thank you very much, it is simply technical information


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

I will need some Nik, just as soon someone makes my clutch packs


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

car's looking awesome keepup the good wrk bro


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## fahrenheit 525 (Nov 3, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

any leads on tuning?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (fahrenheit 525)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fahrenheit 525* »_any leads on tuning?

car will be tuned by revo the week of feb 18th


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
our pistons both JE and VF-proprietary both retain the "FSI-dish". 









Nik, Those look nothing like the factory FSI pistons and look exactly like my pistons which just have their regular off the shelf dish.


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## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

Nik,
If you're talking about the euro-FSI lean burn piston design, it looks like this. The n/a FSI domed top pistons were never in a turbocharged motor. The TFSI pistons with the 'lean burn' design have a dish similar to this cummins piston (it was the closest thing I could find online w/ a similar design). The very first couple FSI motors to make it into cars in the states had this design.









_Modified by Robin @ Revo Technik at 11:21 AM 2-10-2008_


_Modified by Robin @ Revo Technik at 11:22 AM 2-10-2008_


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (Robin @ Revo Technik)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Robin @ Revo Technik* »_










Lets just make sure mine don't look like that tomorrow mmmkay


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Nik, Those look nothing like the factory FSI pistons ...


sure, anything you say!
we have only been tearing these engines down for 2 years, so we may have overlooked some of the minor details. ha ha.


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_this isn't a sales thread thank you very much, it is simply technical information
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
F.S. S3 injectors brand new $179 each 
F.S. 5cyl BGQ only 500 miles $1200
F.S. jetta biolines/tpms/conti tires 4k miles on them $450 picked up
my GT30 2L fsi build up thread 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3601844

off course not. we are all for dispersing technical info. you might want to change your sig for your tech posts though, thankyou very much.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_

sure, anything you say!
we have only been tearing these engines down for 2 years, so we may have overlooked some of the minor details. ha ha.

Nik, I am sorry but there are 100% factory pistons pictured in this thread and your pistons don't look anything like them.








Unless every picture thats been posted of your pistons is shot at some silly angle where you can't see that dish like you can on the stock one, I'm going to have to disagree with you on them having a factory style bowl.
Its pretty obvious in your pic that the dish starts to slope in gradually about an 1/8th inch from the edge just like mine which DO NOT have the FSI bowl. The stock ones clearly do not start to slope in till much closer to the center and then go in at a much sharper angle.


_Modified by [email protected] at 1:39 PM 2-10-2008_


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
our pistons both JE and VF-proprietary both retain the "FSI-dish". Below is our proprietary 8.8 compression Forged piston which we use with Pauter rods. 
We have them in stock if anyone is interested.









i thought you were just lowering the compression 1 point, from 10.5:1 to 9.5:1


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_


















 that motor looks rather familiar


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## [email protected] (Oct 27, 2002)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (t3t41.8tgti)*

No worries Chris. Seeing that you can tell how deep the dish on our pistons is, from low res pics, we will have to conceed!









Gregg (T3t41.8tgti) is continuing to tread on a fine line. If you continue to hound us on this forum with your little jabs - you will only cause threads to get locked. I politely request you do not try to get fresh with us on the forums. Now lets allow this thread to get back on course.


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_No worries Chris. Seeing that you can tell how deep the dish on our pistons is, from low res pics, we will have to conceed!








Gregg (T3t41.8tgti) is continuing to tread on a fine line. If you continue to hound us on this forum with your little jabs - you will only cause threads to get locked. I politely request you do not try to get fresh with us on the forums. Now lets allow this thread to get back on course.


i just asked a simple question, whether the compression ratio is 8.8:1 or 9.5:1 on the Arias pistons.


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
off course not. we are all for dispersing technical info. you might want to change your sig for your tech posts though, thankyou very much.

why would i change my sig, im not a vendor looking to make money.....those are just things i personally have for sale








and if you think the dish on your piston is the same as the factory you are certainly mistaken on it size and function


_Modified by [email protected] at 7:13 PM 2-10-2008_


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## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
if you think the dish on your piston is the same as the factory you are certainly mistaken on it size and function

_Modified by [email protected] at 7:13 PM 2-10-2008_

Lets keep this technical here are 4 totally different FSI designs .
Lets discuss why or why not to use each design ( pro's and con's )







Bob.G
stock/ oem








JE
















VF









_Modified by rracerguy717 at 11:18 PM 2-10-2008_


_Modified by rracerguy717 at 11:23 PM 2-10-2008_


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rracerguy717)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_
i thought you were just lowering the compression 1 point, from 10.5:1 to 9.5:1 

Gregg possible to Pull off the head and work out the correct CR you got for us?

_Quote, originally posted by *rracerguy717* »_
Lets discuss why or why not to use each design ( pro's and con's )







Bob.G

I didnt think there were any con's per say with the JE design but I do understand that Revo needs to get everyone on the same "design" piston.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_No worries Chris. Seeing that you can tell how deep the dish on our pistons is, from low res pics, we will have to conceed!










I'm not so much commenting on the depth of the dish but where its places, where it starts. 
I can see that yours are actually deeper then mine are since we are running almost 2:1 difference in CR. I still fail to see the similarties to yours and the stock one shown.

I apologize for bringing gregs pictures into this, they were just the only ones I knew of.


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
I didnt think there were any con's per say with the JE design but I do understand that Revo needs to get everyone on the same "design" piston.

The cons were its the OE non turbo FSI stratified style piston which was accidentially put into some turbo engines and well didn't last very long







. They are fine for some to experiment but we can't arrange for tuning time and a car only to find out the parts installed won't work the way we need them.
Then yes it also has to do with we need to tune around a piston that people are more likely to buy.


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## RoadRager (Sep 5, 2006)

Not to thread-jack, but I am curious if this engine is a Zero clearance engine, if the timing belt goes, will my valves get fubar'd? Topic came up with my dad, and I had no clue, I see the slots in the piston for what looks like a valve.
Thanks,


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## [email protected] USA (May 17, 2007)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (RoadRager)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RoadRager* »_Not to thread-jack, but I am curious if this engine is a Zero clearance engine, if the timing belt goes, will my valves get fubar'd? Topic came up with my dad, and I had no clue, I see the slots in the piston for what looks like a valve.
Thanks,

It will hit and will bend valves, most multivalve high compression engines are.


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## t3t41.8tgti (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*

here are the specs of the VF/Arias pistons


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## Revo Technical (Jan 9, 2003)

301g?
Thats pretty heavy


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (t3t41.8tgti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *t3t41.8tgti* »_here are the specs of the VF/Arias pistons

Pretty low CR for FSI ?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Pretty low CR for FSI ?

almost every company feels you need it to be that low to run any good timing


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
almost every company feels you need it to be that low to run any good timing









...On a manifold injected car. With FSI you are limited in your timing by the late injection, are you not? I've seen most logs, even stock, come back with "late" timing during high boost areas of the tune. i.e. when the K03 hits peak boost the timing is backed off. Was your goal with lower compression to keep higher timing throughout this point? Do you think it will be as big a problem with a larger turbo that is more efficient at delivering the air flow you are looking for? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_
...On a manifold injected car. With FSI you are limited in your timing by the late injection, are you not? I've seen most logs, even stock, come back with "late" timing during high boost areas of the tune. i.e. when the K03 hits peak boost the timing is backed off. Was your goal with lower compression to keep higher timing throughout this point? Do you think it will be as big a problem with a larger turbo that is more efficient at delivering the air flow you are looking for? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i am not reducing compression at all with my pistons, rodney is having an exact piston made to look identical to the factory one however it will be a forged JE piston and it will also include coated skirts and piston tops http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i don't see timing being a problem at all even with high boost and if it is thats why they make water/meth


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## magilson (Apr 18, 2005)

Good to know! If your testing goes well I'd assume he would begin making these pistons as part of their cataloge?


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: (magilson)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magilson* »_Good to know! If your testing goes well I'd assume he would begin making these pistons as part of their cataloge?

they have available pistons he can get you, i just wanted things to my personal liking


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## im_a_local (Jun 4, 2004)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
i am not reducing compression at all with my pistons, rodney is having an exact piston made to look identical to the factory one however it will be a forged JE piston and it will also include coated skirts and piston tops http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i don't see timing being a problem at all even with high boost and if it is thats why they make water/meth









good to hear.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## rhussjr (Aug 7, 2000)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info ([email protected])*


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## [email protected] (May 13, 2005)

*Re: some stock piston and cylinder bore info (rhussjr)*








beautiful http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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