# 2.0 wont start. I have vag-com, falt codes shown. Advice?



## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*2.0 wont start. I have vag-com, falt codes shown. RESOLVED! READ TO SEE FIX*

2002 Jetta gasser 2.0 AZG 
80k miles
Car was difficult to start yesterday, now wont start at all. Symptoms leading up to this: While driving, car would suddenly decelerate, acting like I took foot of the pedal. stepping further on pedal made no difference. This issue was intermittent, and each time it occurred it usually lasts for only a few seconds. Additionally (not certain however) issue seemed to be more prominent when raining.
Now for the current problem. Car wont start at all. Turns over but does not fire. I dont know if the decel issue is related, not sure. My first feeling is maybe clogged fuel filter? I last changed it at 62k (18,000 miles ago). I will change it out and report my findings. In the mean time, I checked fault codes with vag com, here is what I found:
7 Faults Found:
16804 - Catalyst System: Bank 1: Efficiency Below Threshold
P0420 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17704 - Error in Mapped Cooling System (usually temp Sensor or Thermostat)
P1296 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16684 - Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected
P0300 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16685 - Cylinder 1 Misfire Detected
P0301 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
17560 - Long Term Fuel Trim Additive Air Bank 1: Range 2: System too Lean
P1152 - 35-00 - -
19722 - Oxygen Sensor B1 S1 Internal Resistance Implausible
P3266 - 35-00 - -
16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal
P0321 - 35-00 - -
Any advice or opinions greatly appreciated!
Thanks
_Modified by Ironforger at 5:27 PM 7-23-2009_


_Modified by Ironforger at 5:29 PM 7-23-2009_


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## 2LiterWeapon (May 8, 2009)

*Re: 2.0 wont start. I have vag-com, falt codes shown. Advice? (Ironforger)*

Hmm.. I am not 100% positive, but it looks like your timing is way off.
Also, those are a lot of different problems... RPM Sensor, Cat efficiency, and possibly your MAF.
Do a search in the forum for your codes to start troubleshooting.


_Modified by 2LiterWeapon at 11:26 AM 5-11-2009_


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: 2.0 wont start. I have vag-com, falt codes shown. Advice? (2LiterWeapon)*

Thanks,
I need to first get this thing started so I can do other diagnostics (measuring blocks etc) while it's running.
Advice anyone?


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*FV-QR*

16705 - Engine Speed Sensor (G28): Implausible Signal
P0321 - 35-00 - -
id start there with your crank position sensor. i would replace that then i would bet that the car will start. if the ECU cant determine the position of the crank then it will not fire the ignition correctly. start there. sensor is on the front passenger side of the motor with 1 bolt that holds it in. 
i suppose you could take it out and clean it and make sure the wires to it still look good and are still plugged in.
after that i would go with a NEW MAF and o2 sensors

as far as the misfire when raining i would say you should replace the wires first. if you know they are pretty new then you should replace the coil. water is grounding the signal to the plugs somewhere


_Modified by vdubbugman53 at 12:31 PM 5-11-2009_


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubbugman53)*

Thanks bugman53. I ordered the g28, it should arrive tomorrow. I will report my findings. Are you sure it's on the engine on the passenger side? The bently says it's on top of transmission, (left -aka drivers side) and I do see a sensor looking device on top of the trans held in with one bolt with a 10mm head.
Consequently, I don't think issue is the fuel filter, as I can smell gas coming out of the exhaust pipe from my repeated (but not excessive) cranking attempts.
So first things first, just want to get it started so I can proceed with further diagnostics. Regardless, any idea what is up with the16804 catlyst bank1? also, what about the 17704 cooling system issue? I replaced the temp sensor with a "good" green one a couple years ago. I've heard the thermostats are finicky on these cars. Any merit to that?
Thanks!


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubbugman53)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubbugman53* »_ g28 sensor is on the front passenger side of the motor with 1 bolt that 

I can't find t he G28 sensor. Can anyone describe where it is?
Thanks


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

the crank position sensor im pretty sure is on the driver side of the block as that is where the position sensor wheel is. i thought it was on the front but i suppose it could be on the back. i have an AEG so it might be diff


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

ill figure it out and let you know


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: (vdubbugman53)*

Thanks!


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

do you know the part number that you ordered


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I'm showing Impulse Sender - 06A 906 433 L for AZG/AVH 2.0 and the AWP 1.8T.


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

ok then that is what i have and it does look like it is on the tranny side.


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

i think it is number 5 there


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

Indeed, 06A 906 433 L is the part number I ordered. I'm expecting this part to arrive today.


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

I replaced the g28 speed sensor. 
The engine still will not start. Any ideas anyone?
I cleared all of the fault codes, and one code reappears when I attempt to start it: 19722 - Oxygen Sensor B1 S1 Internal Resistance Implausible
P3266 - 35-00 - -
I would think that the engine would still run if something was wrong with the oxygen sensor. Anyone have any idea what I can do or check next?
Thanks!


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

Actually, an O2 sensor issue can cause a no start condition...


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

Thanks,
But which one? It looks like there are 2 oxy sensors. One on the exhast manifold, and one back by the cat.


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*

First one, the one after the cat has no effect on fueling, only monitors cat efficiency.


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

Is there anything else besides the 02 sensor that can cause a no-start issue?


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*Re: (Ironforger)*

unplug the maf and try to start the car


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## seanmor (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: (Ironforger) (vdubbugman53)*

I agree with 2literweapon, I think the timing might be off (timing belt broke some teeth). I would first verify engine timing is correct before trying to start it again. I speak from experience and bent some exhaust valves when I tried to start mine after the belt slipped.


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*FV-QR*

if timing was that far out then the CPS would freak or at least it should


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## seanmor (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubbugman53)*

When my belt slipped the code I got was for my cam position sensor. Is that what you mean by CPS?


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## vdubbugman53 (Nov 7, 2006)

*FV-QR*

yea...but if his belt slipped he would get that code but he isnt getting that code


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubbugman53)*

I will physically inspect the belt. It will be sunday before I can do so though. Heading to the mountains for a couple days.
Is there an inspection port on the trans bell housing to verify top dead center?


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## seanmor (Dec 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Ironforger)*

I know there is for 5 speed trans but not sure about auto. You can use the notch on the crank pulley. Just match that up against the notch on the lower timing belt cover. Then you will see if the cam notch is where it should be.


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

Ok, so I checked the timing. Belt looks good, no missing cogs. All of the timing marks are dead on. Whatever is wrong with this car does not look like a timing issue. Any other suggestions? I disconnected the maf, but still wouldn't start, so I re-connected it.
Caveat: I think it's fueling, because I can smell gasoline from the exhaust after I attempt to start it. Ideas Anyone? Thanks!


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## jetta09black (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: (Ironforger)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ironforger* »_
Caveat: I think it's fueling, because I can smell gasoline from the exhaust after I attempt to start it. Ideas Anyone? Thanks!

You are running rich... did you check the Distributor ignition timing? Is the rotor pointing to the tiny slash mark on the dist housing when your timing is at TDC?


_Modified by jetta09black at 7:24 AM 5-25-2009_


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

You go the crank sensor code because you scanned the car without it running. That is why the crank sensor didn't work. Your car should run even if the maf is bad. It'll just run like crap. When was the last time you had a simple tuneup of plugs and wires? Do you have spark? Maybe the coilpack is bad... Any vacuum leaks?


_Modified by FL 2.0L at 10:43 AM 5-25-2009_


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: (FL 2.0L)*

Right, the car has factory spark plugs, wires and coilpack. (there is no distributor jettablack).
I checked and it has a spark, but I can't help thinking it looks weak. The spark is very fine, and it's slightly yellowish. Maybe normal? Shouldnt the spark be a strong bright blue? Is there a way to test the coilpack? The plugs look decent, pure white, no carbon, very slight erosion on the ground electrode.
I know it could probably use a tuneup, but would the car just stop running? I've never seen a car just stop running because it's overdue for a tuneup.
Thanks


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

Advice anyone?


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

I replaced the coilpack with a new one. Car still will not start.
Advice anyone??
Thanks!


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

Ive narrowed the issue down to fueling. I can remove the intake pipe (post maf) and shoot in ether and it starts. So, I changed out the fuel filter and attempted to start. Nothing. Still wont start. I went back and removed the inlet fuel pipe from the fuel filter, and it's dry. Advice anyone?
I've checked every single fuse, all good. I imagine I may be advised to check to see if the fuel pump is coming on. If so, how do I check that? If not, any other advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!


_Modified by Ironforger at 1:56 AM 6-16-2009_


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: (Ironforger)*

sounds very much like a faulty fuel pump to me. Get some one to crank it over while you check for power at the fuel pump connector. if it has power, check the ground as well and if that's ok replace the pump.


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

*Re: (Prof315)*

Thanks Professor. 
I have to ask, where is the fuel pump located on the mkIV jetta wagon azg? Sorry, I'm a tdi buff. Gassers are second language to me. This trouble shooting is definitely getting me up to speed though.
Thanks!


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## dasaint (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: 2.0 wont start. I have vag-com, falt codes shown. Advice? (Ironforger)*

I have Seen errors similiar to this caused from a Bad MAF sensor in the car. i had a 96 jetta pop out similar codes when i replaced the MAF all those codes went away, as well as a Bad MAF would prevent the car from running
and a bad MAF could explain all the codes, bad readings from the MAF would affect the firing, and the airflow tripping those codes, when the engine is off everything else goes ballistic.


_Modified by dasaint at 5:01 PM 7-9-2009_


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## Ironforger (Jun 9, 2003)

Final Answer:
The issue was a faulty fuel pump. I replaced it, runs fine. All codes cleared except catalyst bank below efficiency.
Caveat: None of the original fault codes provided any clue regarding engine not getting fuel. it appears that all of the fault codes I was getting where post issue because the engine was not starting, and not pre-issue. 
Additionally, I dissasembled the faulty fuel pump. It failed due to bad bearings. The fuel pump in general looks to be of weak design and construction. I would HIGHLY recommend changing out the fuel pump as part of normal maintenance at 60,000 mile intervals. Better safe than sorry! If it fails, you are SOL!! Stuck on the road! No work around or roadside fix! Car must be towed! If you are unlucky enough to have the car fixed at a dealer it will cost you a fortune! (Luckily I was able to fix it myself and my only cost was the part itself, not to mention the time to diagnose/repair etc, but that's a given).
It's a wild goose chase sometimes! Thanks everyone for your help. Next time lets consider issue other than what the fault codes tell us!



_Modified by Ironforger at 5:23 PM 7-23-2009_


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## FL 2.0L (Aug 1, 2002)

60k? My pump has 231K on it.


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