# FrankenTurbo F4T vs K04-001 (GIAC 380cc software)



## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

I have a GIAC customer who's installed an F4T into his MkIV and been generously forwarding me logs of his new install -- but not before logging some baselines of the K04-001 he replaced. So we now have a nice direct comparison of the two turbos running GIAC's K04-001 software. There's quite a bit of interesting stuff here.

First is a master graph directly comparing data before and after the hardware swap. It covers:

Boost request
Boost actual
Wastegate duty cycle
Intake air temperature​









The first thing I noticed was the boost request. It's basically 20psi all the way out to redline! I have never seen a K04 file ask so much of a turbo. And, of course, that's way more than the -001 can deliver. But it's a surprisingly well-suited request curve for the F4T.

Secondly, I was surprised to see the GIAC software adapting so well to the new turbo. Despite the much lower duty cycles required to meet boost requests, the ecu adapts and adjusts the commands to operate the hardware smoothly. Meanwhile, despite the higher pressures, IATs are virtually unchanged. This is as good an illustration of compressor efficiency as I've ever seen. A solid 5psi pressure delta between the turbos with no IAT price to pay.

Here is a look at the raw logs. 

K04-001









F4T









Lastly, here is an airmass graph showing the difference in performance between the two turbos. Down low they have parity. But once the K04-001 compressor hits choke, they cleave away from one another.









Hopefully the car owner can chip in to say what he thinks of the new setup. Also, he performed a dyno before the swap, so my guess is we can get a qualitative sense of the performance improvement.

:beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

looks solid... You can see the engine load is increased right around where peak torque is(3100rpms ish) also his IAT is mucho cooler and boost is held nicely up top! He should have a nice difference on the dyno.

In regards to the giac software I believe that file was originally written for a k04-02x and not a -01. Thats my only thinking as to why its requesting about 20psi at redline.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

They have two distinct files, each with its own personality. K04-001 and K04-20. Both call for 380s and a TT225 MAF/sensor


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## ilie.vw.tech (Dec 31, 2008)

makes me want to get one..


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

hmmm interesting......


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## logiCReversed (May 30, 2010)

Facts and hard data, oh how I love thee. I look forward to seeing the dyno comparisons.


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## sponcar (Feb 5, 2010)

logiCReversed said:


> Facts and hard data, oh how I love thee. I look forward to seeing the dyno comparisons.


same here...! I really want the Frankenturbo and I hope it would be worth it to run it with giac k04 software... I just want to see how it does on the dyno.! so that way I will know how much power I can expect of this combo.!:thumbup:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Learn something new everyday ... didnt know they had different files... 

Either way the logs look great... I'm sure the before and after will be significant.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> I have a GIAC customer who's installed an F4T into his MkIV and been generously forwarding me logs of his new install -- but not before logging some baselines of the K04-001 he replaced. So we now have a nice direct comparison of the two turbos running GIAC's K04-001 software. There's quite a bit of interesting stuff here.
> 
> First is a master graph directly comparing data before and after the hardware swap. It covers:
> 
> ...


Did he customer use the new manifold as well??? If so using the new manifold on the k04 would net the same results as the stock log Manifold is restrictive as hell.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

165g/s ?


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

badger5 said:


> 165g/s ?


Yeah. It's my constant frustration over here Bill: re-scaled MAF readings. So I really can't identify the true rate. Is it 36% more, based purely on the surface area of the larger MAF housing? Is it 30% more, based on the voltage delta between a TT225 sensor and a stock one? Or is it some other ratio based on a re-mapping of the airmass lookup tables in GIAC's software? Who knows.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

Dough / slappy

did the tester that had the K04-001 use the high flow manifold on the K04??? 

if the answer is yes then your conclusion would be correct
if the answer is no then having the higher flowing manifold on the K04 would allow it to run the same rate as the frankenturbo. 

wish there were pictures


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

05GTIMarine said:


> wish there were pictures


I wish there were Dyno's #'s and charts!


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> did the tester that had the K04-001 use the high flow manifold on the K04???
> 
> having the higher flowing manifold on the K04 would allow it to run the same rate as the frankenturbo.


I can't say if the test car previously had a form of high flow on it. I'll assume it did not. But in the absence of any test data for K04-001 turbos on an upgraded manifold ANYWHERE...there's no way to predict what would happen.

I don't know of any hard data posted related to a K04-001/manifold configuration. The closest I've ever seen is this one with people complaining about overboost. Regardless, FrankenTurbo makes no claim that the high-flow manifold enhances power delivery. What it does is allow close to 300bhp at safe EGT levels. That's why the the F4 turbos and their manifolds are a required combination. We tested them together and that's what we found to be the best product.


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## jon-vw (May 25, 2011)

Doug, how'd you get rosstech to convert your boost loggings from mbar to psi. sorry to go off topic


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

jon-vw said:


> Doug, how'd you get rosstech to convert your boost loggings from mbar to psi. sorry to go off topic


(Boost pressure in mbar - ambient pressure in mbar) * 0.0145037738 = boost in PSI


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> I can't say if the test car previously had a form of high flow on it. I'll assume it did not. But in the absence of any test data for K04-001 turbos on an upgraded manifold ANYWHERE...there's no way to predict what would happen.
> 
> I don't know of any hard data posted related to a K04-001/manifold configuration. The closest I've ever seen is this one with people complaining about overboost. Regardless, FrankenTurbo makes no claim that the high-flow manifold enhances power delivery. What it does is allow close to 300bhp at safe EGT levels. That's why the the F4 turbos and their manifolds are a required combination. We tested them together and that's what we found to be the best product.



Very interested to see dynos of both setups. I currently have a K04-001 on a Kinetic high-flow manifold and I'd like to see how much better the F4T is :thumbup:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

bootymac said:


> Very interested to see dynos of both setups. I currently have a K04-001 on a Kinetic high-flow manifold and I'd like to see how much better the F4T is :thumbup:


doug theres your high flow mani on a k04. the reason behind the high flow log style manifold is NOT for egt reasons. it is to improve the flow out of the engine and into the hot side of the turbocharger. 

id love to see bootymac logs with the high flow. after looking at your logs and charts i am begining to think that your f4h is a chinese K04 with the wastegate clamped. stock k04 WG pressure is 5 psi. your wg pressure is set to 8 psi, so in return you really just clamped it so that it will start opening the wg on a later schedule. im not abandoning ship as of yet doug just laying out truths and what i have noticed.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

05GTIMarine said:


> i am begining to think that your f4h is a chinese K04 with the wastegate clamped. stock k04 WG pressure is 5 psi. your wg pressure is set to 8 psi, so in return you really just clamped it so that it will start opening the wg on a later schedule.


Interesting. But you know the F4 turbos have different components, right? Are you saying that despite these design changes you still suspect they're really little different from a hopped-up plain jane K04?

I think this thread is as good a place as any to examine that question, if that's what you want to do.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, I'll just say to all of this. I am holding boost the same as the F4T on a K03S with GONZO's stage 3 tune. 
So everyone can buy into the K04 BS if they want, all you really need is a proper tune and proper supporting mods. 
I'm holding 25psi until 5k then it begins to drop. Now I'm set at 20-22psi and it holds up to 5.5k.

Just get a good tune and you'll put out just as much power as a K04 with your measly K03S. Otherwise just go BT. Unless your in a jam and need a replacement.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Ed -- 

I have carefully read what you have written. You can be sure I take it seriously. I am sorry to hear you are dissatisfied with your purchase because I work hard to ensure that my FrankenTurbos are a successful product. I am available to my customers 7 days a week. If you look at the documentation on our website it's very clear: we source from overseas. It's right there on our site.

As for my work background, what you say is true. I have done many things and feel fortunate that they have lead me to my current occupation. And, like many Americans, I operate a home business. It may be modest, but I take pride in being personally responsible for everything that goes out my door. If I felt otherwise, I would not have welcomed you to come in person to pick up your order.

Having said that, I am careful about whom I invite to my workplace: it's also my home. So unfortunately, the most troubling aspects of your post are the photographs you took. You did that without permission. That's my property you were standing on and I am now concerned about what else you were taking pictures of. 

A few minutes after leaving my shop you called me to say you wanted to return the turbos. If I ran a shady, disreputable business would I have said you could come back and do just that? I'm perplexed why you chose to keep them, and instead air your grievances about the product -- and good bit extra -- here in a public forum.

Doug Harper
Proprietor
FrankenTurbo


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## Jmacc (Jul 6, 2011)

Well, my turbo just came in today and it came well packed and it all looks great. I personally deal with alot of chinese products when I help my father with his LED Lighting business and yes some of the stuff I have seen is not great but if you look hard enough and put as much hard work and RnD that Doug has I am sure you can find a great product with the same quality. To be honest 05GTIMarine you are the first and only dissatisfied customer that I have come across in my Year plus at looking these turbos. 

But great way to be an *******.:banghead:


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## Brammage (Sep 6, 2004)

I've been working with Dave (Motoza) and Doug for the past 2-3 months now remotely turning my car in conjunction with another guy running almost my exact same setup. They have put up with several delays on my part and neither one has shown any sign of being annoyed or frustrated with the whole situation. I have had zero issues with the quality of any of the parts that have been sold to me. His support for his product is unmatched and he stands by it.

05GTIMarine, not cool to post pictures of someone's private home or business for that matter without permission. From what I've read even in your post he worked with you and was going to help you. Overboosting can be caused by a ton of factors and shouldn't just be limited to blaming the hardware he supplied (look at your n75 duty cycles etc, without logs you have no argument). Doug also makes sure to tell people that if you're going to be running a stock tune you need to dial back the wastegate so that it doesn't overboost. I'm using the DV he supplied and have had no issues. I've been running this turbo for 3000 miles now with no issues.

Anyways. Yo Doug.


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Whoa whoa, when the **** did he say anything about dialing back the wastegate. I even told him 3 times I wanted to make sure the wastegate was set ok so that I could drive my car with my current tune... So now suddenly I get stuck having to remove the turbo again to try and adjust it? 

Plus I tried 3 different n75s I had laying around so its not the n75. 

When I asked doug what could be wrong he told me to buy an MBC... 

He chose to keep the turbos because I told him it would be fine... when he got home and explained how your workspace was an showed my pictures I was pretty upset.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

A Guy opens his doors to you and this is how you thank him? Seriously dude. Resolve your issues privately. If things don't get sorted out then take it up on the forums. 

I for one have had no issues with Doug. I have been to his home on afew occasions to discuss business and take on afew projects as well. He is a standup guy and like he said is at any of his customers side 7 days a week. Shoot him an email and you got yourself a response and Doug working on a solution in no time. He has bailed me out even though I had screwed something up. Did he have to? No. But he wants his customers happy which in turn would lead to more happy customers. You are the first one to come out and say negative things about his product. Fine. But seriously dude pics of his home and home office, garage whatever you wanna call is not cool. 

Oh and a nice fun fact for you. Borg Warner has their turbos assembled where? Oh yeah that's right. China... 

Chill out dude. Happy dubbin everyone. Waterfest fever is kicking in!


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

why would you need to remove a turbo to adjust the WG:sly:


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## Brammage (Sep 6, 2004)

Easy there cowboy. I said stock tuning. I didn't imply anything about your circumstance. But yeah you need to resolve this in emails with Doug as I'm sure he wouldn't have minded doing before you (or whoever is involved) posted pictures of his house. 

Edit: yeah unless you managed somehow to install the turbo upside down the wastegate and the actuator rod should be staring you in the face.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Brightgolf said:


> Whoa whoa, when the **** did he say anything about dialing back the wastegate. I even told him 3 times I wanted to make sure the wastegate was set ok so that I could drive my car with my current tune... So now suddenly I get stuck having to remove the turbo again to try and adjust it?
> 
> Plus I tried 3 different n75s I had laying around so its not the n75.
> 
> When I asked doug what could be wrong he told me to buy an MBC...


 You should not have to remove the turbo to adjust a wastegate. Its literally 2x 10mm nuts that you unscrew and there you go. Wasegate adjusted. Its a 2 minute thing at most. A mbc would be smart to have regardless. A nice spike from a torqey f4 and your asking to bend a rod.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

spartiati said:


> You should not have to remove the turbo to adjust a wastegate. Its literally 2x 10mm nuts that you unscrew and there you go. Wasegate adjusted. Its a 2 minute thing at most. A mbc would be smart to have regardless. A nice spike from a torqey f4 and your asking to bend a rod.


 thats where our wrong. brightgolf is running an a4 longitudinal. you have to remove the bolts and slide the turbo foward in order to get to the waste gate. so that means a new manifold to turbo. then seeing as the bolts are only supposed to be used once, remove the manifold to get the back bolt out and replace all the 12 and 13mm nuts on the manifold which are one time use, then replace the head to manifold gasket as thats one time use as well. our consumables cost about 130 dollars to do the turbo. we use all oem nuts,washers, gaskets, and bolts. had he set the wg to the proper 5 psi none of this would have had to happen. 

as for the pics i in no way shape or form showed where he lived or gave out his address. for someone running a business out of his barn i would at least hope proper storage and handling of the products people pay money for could be done. i think ill just use my f4h t as a paper weight, upgrade my rods and just throw a gtx3076 on there and call it good. we will see in a couple of months


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

I run one of my businesses out of my barn and another out of my library... what's the difference? 

Should he run it from his living room floor? 

I believe Doug stands by his product and ask him enough questions he'll tell you all you want. God and Doug both know I asked him everything there was to ask... and he answered them all.eace:


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## Brammage (Sep 6, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> thats where our wrong. brightgolf is running an a4 longitudinal. you have to remove the bolts and slide the turbo foward in order to get to the waste gate. so that means a new manifold to turbo. then seeing as the bolts are only supposed to be used once, remove the manifold to get the back bolt out and replace all the 12 and 13mm nuts on the manifold which are one time use, then replace the head to manifold gasket as thats one time use as well. our consumables cost about 130 dollars to do the turbo. we use all oem nuts,washers, gaskets, and bolts. had he set the wg to the proper 5 psi none of this would have had to happen.
> 
> as for the pics i in no way shape or form showed where he lived or gave out his address. for someone running a business out of his barn i would at least hope proper storage and handling of the products people pay money for could be done. i think ill just use my f4h t as a paper weight, upgrade my rods and just throw a gtx3076 on there and call it good. we will see in a couple of months


 What tune do you have? I have no experience with long. so forgive my bit of ignorance there. Still seems like there is something else you can take off to get to it. Have any pics of why you can't get to it?


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Its up against the block and the downpipe and manifold are in the way. On any longitudinal block you have to remove the turbo and the downpipe mount on the transmission to pull it away enough to adjust the wastegate. And it a little more than a boost spike, it boosts past 30psi the second you get on the gas which is why I'm just running it off wastegate pressure which apparently is set at 10psi as my boost gauge shows.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Even if the WG is set at 10psi you should be able to alleviate that with a MBC or lowering boost via Unisettings / LW


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

Can't adjust with lemmiwinks or unisettings as I don't have unitronic or revo. Apr doesn't allow for tweaks. And I shouldn't have to rely on an MBC


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## bootymac (Apr 19, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> id love to see bootymac logs with the high flow. after looking at your logs and charts i am begining to think that your f4h is a chinese K04 with the wastegate clamped. stock k04 WG pressure is 5 psi. your wg pressure is set to 8 psi, so in return you really just clamped it so that it will start opening the wg on a later schedule. im not abandoning ship as of yet doug just laying out truths and what i have noticed.


 I actually have plenty of logs but my setup is a bit different. Stock MAF sensor/housing with 386cc injectors on a custom Malone tune. Let me know what you'd like to see and I'll post up


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## sabbySC (Dec 29, 2009)

bootymac said:


> I actually have plenty of logs but my setup is a bit different. Stock MAF sensor/housing with 386cc injectors on a custom Malone tune. Let me know what you'd like to see and I'll post up


 Do you have any dynos?


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## Sinner44 (Oct 11, 2006)

Post moved to other thread


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Well, I'll just say to all of this. I am holding boost the same as the F4T on a K03S with GONZO's stage 3 tune.
> So everyone can buy into the K04 BS if they want, all you really need is a proper tune and proper supporting mods.
> I'm holding 25psi until 5k then it begins to drop. Now I'm set at 20-22psi and it holds up to 5.5k.
> 
> Just get a good tune and you'll put out just as much power as a K04 with your measly K03S. Otherwise just go BT. Unless your in a jam and need a replacement.


 I've never seen a k03S hold 20 Psi to redline. I've tried this with the wastegate cranked and with a manual boost controller installed. 

I call BS on your DJ Gonzo software. Show me proof or it never happened. 


05GTI... shame on you man. Have u ever seen pictures of eurojet's or intergrated's facilities? 
In today's economy running a business out of your barn/ garage is the norm. 

I have seen many k04 tunes (mainly APRs tune ) require manual boost controllers ran in parallel to control over-boosting caused by K04 and high flow manifolds. its the nature of the beast.


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> as for the pics i in no way shape or form showed where he lived or gave out his address. for someone running a business out of his barn i would at least hope proper storage and handling of the products people pay money for could be done. i think ill just use my f4h t as a paper weight, upgrade my rods and just throw a gtx3076 on there and call it good. we will see in a couple of months


 
wow, you are quite the prick are'nt you... :laugh:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Relax dude I over read the longitudinal part. If you want your car to run like stock. Leave it stock. 

Once you start upgrading and throwing different things on, expect there to need tuning and whatnot. As far as unisettings goes I've used that on apr revo unitronics and eurodyne. Make sure proper cable settings are set in vagcom before trying to read ecu with unisettings. 

If you think a gtx 3076 will run better or have less of headaches then think again. And as far as tune goes if you have apr I don't believe they have software for a 3076 so expect to pay upwards of 700-1000 for stage 3 software for you to run that setup. 

In regards to companies selling stuff out of there "barn", think overhead. Less overhead means less expenses which translates into the ability for selling a product for a lower price. End results= happy customers getting more per $.


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

I obviously don't want the car to run like stock... but if the wastegate was set to a point where I didn't have to adjust anything like I asked for... then stock management would be able to handle it then alone my stage 2+ tune. Stock? I have over a $900 in just mounts man... I know what needs to be changed.


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Chill out dude. Its no pissing match here.900 in mounts? A full set of vf mounts for an mk4 is just over 500. Whatever. If you wanted to be sure then you shoulda checked before running. All you woulda needed was a bike pump and ur boost gauge hooked up and you woulda been good. Now to make sure you don't overboost yu need. Boostcontroller and some vacuum tubing. Shouldn't cost more than 50 bucks. Youll spend 900 on mounts but no 50 to make sure u don't overboost? Also have you tried a new n75. Old ones don't react fast enough and you get insane spikes


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

This was an obvious attempt at a smear campaign... What went on last night was unacceptable...


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

Brightgolf said:


> I obviously don't want the car to run like stock... but if the wastegate was set to a point where I didn't have to adjust anything like I asked for... then stock management would be able to handle it then alone my stage 2+ tune. Stock? I have over a $900 in just mounts man... I know what needs to be changed.


 thing is... its designed to be a hybrid, and a higher preload on the wg will keep it closed where std 5psi will likely blow open, which is'nt going to help at all.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

badger5 said:


> wow, you are quite the prick are'nt you... :laugh:


 i can be an a$$ h0le yes. a prick maybe and honest yes. i removed the post out of respect for dougs business. 

i did do my research and ive actually been looking for about 6-8 months for a solution to replace my stock turbo. i wanted something that was a quality ( which means for me, NOT made in asia) 
i was sitting in dougs shop listening to him talk about everything wanting to be just tell him i want my money back but i agreed to give them a try. if you were there then maybe you would understand where i was coming from. 

as for using the turbo as a paper weight im heeding the advice of multiple users shooting me pm's that i might as well save up some cash and go bt. that was a route i was going to go eventually so might as well do it over the winter and have fun in the spring. 

bootymac id like to see all the parameters that doug posted on his post. so we can see what the high flow can do on a k04. im not believing that the only purpose to the high flow manifold is to lower egt's. 

as for doug id hope that you get tables or something ot put all your products on. putting the turbos vertical through holes on the shelf is never a good thing. the possibility of damaged fins and more could come from this. yes you have a 150 dollar chra policy but it costs far more to replace it the right way. not to mention if i lose a fin and it tears my intercooler up your not replacing that so id be out far more than just a chra. as for your diverter valve talk to your supplier and have them remove that o ring and make it complete metal such as the real 007 so no more of your customers lose it into their turbo.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

badger5 said:


> thing is... its designed to be a hybrid, and a higher preload on the wg will keep it closed where std 5psi will likely blow open, which is'nt going to help at all.


 it wont blow open as the n75 is closed and not allowing air to get to the wastegate. the ecu, and n75 are set up so that they will operate assuming the wastegate pressure is set to 5 psi. josh and i have already had this issue prior and had to fix it in the past we learn from our mistakes and move foward. 



spartiati said:


> Chill out dude. Its no pissing match here.900 in mounts? A full set of vf mounts for an mk4 is just over 500. Whatever. If you wanted to be sure then you shoulda checked before running. All you woulda needed was a bike pump and ur boost gauge hooked up and you woulda been good. Now to make sure you don't overboost yu need. Boostcontroller and some vacuum tubing. Shouldn't cost more than 50 bucks. Youll spend 900 on mounts but no 50 to make sure u don't overboost? Also have you tried a new n75. Old ones don't react fast enough and you get insane spikes


 hes already tried three different ones and all got the same result. i sat there and watched doug assemble our turbos. and yes he used a bike pump to set the wg pressure. josh and i have a tool designed to do the same thing as well. as for the mbc we ordered hallman pros and yes we have all the vacuum line, but thats not the point we are getting at. 

the point is this: for the past few years ive been reading hundreds of threads trying to gather as much information as possible. going to car shows, picking tuners brains, and trying to figure out what to and not to do with my car as i only want the best product for my car. i was going to go k04 multiple times and decided to wait. rp came out and i was going to go with them until they had issues with their wg, started looking again when i got out of the service and now convinced my friend and i to buy a frankenturbo. 

this is the line that got me sold on the F4H-T and its on his site: 

All product and parts assembly performed to OEM spec by OEM suppliers. 

my final ? is this: 

what OEM car manufacturer uses the f4h in their automobile?


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## Brightgolf (Jan 13, 2008)

My a4 has 6 mounts, three motor mounts, two transmission mounts and a rear diff. mount. **** can get expensive once you step outside the mk4 platform. And like I said I spent $115 on a hallman pro mbc prior to installing the turbo.


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> i wanted something that was a quality ( which means for me, NOT made in asia)


 
I'd like to see how many things in your house are actually not made in Asia. :screwy: 

Out of curiosity what kind of TV do you have? 

Do you know the majority of the Chips in your computer come from Asia. If you are using an apple product then your most definitely using a product made in Asia. 

Like sparaiti said before.... borg warner turbos are made in asia. 
Where do you think interegrated is sourcing their rods from? 



05GTIMarine said:


> my final ? is this:
> 
> what OEM car manufacturer uses the f4h in their automobile?


 Yo... you bought a HYBRID K04.... this turbo is not used in an OEM application. 
if you dont know the definition of hyrbid so here it goes. 

hy·brid    
[hahy-brid] Show IPA 
–noun 
1. 
the offspring of two animals or plants of different breeds, varieties, species, or genera, especially as produced through human manipulation for specific genetic characteristics. 
2. 
a person or group of persons produced by the interaction or crossbreeding of two unlike cultures, traditions, etc. 
3. 
anything derived from heterogeneous sources, or composed of elements of different or incongruous kinds: a hybrid of the academic and business worlds.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

GTIMARINE, 

You just need to quit. You don't have a clue what you're talking about, so just give up. 

Built to OEM spec, is referring to the Compressor and Turbine housing. Anything can be built to OEM specs. It it doesn't matter who builds it. 

ANY K04 you buy will be from ASIA. (PERIOD). There is nothing wrong with that. 

Half of the stuff MADE IN THE USA (or more) is built from parts sent from Asia, with tools from Asia, Inspected by computers made in Asia and so on. 

If you want a genuine borg warner KKK K04 hybrid, go to scroll products. They will build it for you. BTW- it will cost as much as a BT setup.:wave:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

well its going in wed evening as mine is blown. ill just back the waste gate off to 5 psi and let the ecu run it. after i get it done im gonna sell it and go another route as i obviously have no clue what im doing in the vw/audi world. 

anyone wanna buy an 05 gti with 56k miles and a frankenturbo lol


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

05GTIMarine said:


> it wont blow open as the n75 is closed and not allowing air to get to the wastegate. the ecu, and n75 are set up so that they will operate assuming the wastegate pressure is set to 5 psi. josh and i have already had this issue prior and had to fix it in the past we learn from our mistakes and move foward.


 LOL 

I would try to explain why you're way off beam here, but honestly I cant be arsed trying to educate you......... 

waste of space/time 

(clue-boost pressure and exhaust manifold pressures ....... ) 

"Have a Nice Day"


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## ejg3855 (Sep 23, 2004)

05GTIMarine said:


> All product and parts assembly performed to OEM spec by OEM suppliers.
> 
> my final ? is this:
> 
> what OEM car manufacturer uses the f4h in their automobile?


 Where does that say anywhere in there that the turbo is an OEM unit? Reading fails you. 

OEM spec and an OEM supplier are more than capable of making aftermarket parts. You have made numerous posts in id=27 and most of them are just you whining because you don't take in the facts or you interpret things the way you want to and not by what they actually mean. 

If you but Headbolts and it says use OEM specs to install these does it mean they are OEM bolts?


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## lave3k (Jan 26, 2010)

I've been running the F4L in a 2003 Audi A4 for about 12,000 miles now. It has shown no signs of deterioration or lack of quality at any point, it has been running at high altitude here in Colorado working extra hard to keep up with the thin air and it will pull 200g/s today mid July in 90 degree heat at 5800ft. That's flat out amazing for a kit that costs less than a plain K04. 

I though the kit was very nicely packaged, labeled, clean etc. and FrankenTurbo was nothing but professional period dot. Of course there are challenges to installing and making sure everything is properly installed, fitted, sealed, that hardware and software are working together smoothly, etc. As a hobbyist and even for professionals that's just the reality of high tech turbo charged German cars no matter how much you pay for the parts.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

lave3k said:


> I've been running the F4L in a 2003 Audi A4 for about 12,000 miles now. It has shown no signs of deterioration or lack of quality at any point, it has been running at high altitude here in Colorado working extra hard to keep up with the thin air and it will pull 200g/s today mid July in 90 degree heat at 5800ft. That's flat out amazing for a kit that costs less than a plain K04.
> 
> I though the kit was very nicely packaged, labeled, clean etc. and FrankenTurbo was nothing but professional period dot. Of course there are challenges to installing and making sure everything is properly installed, fitted, sealed, that hardware and software are working together smoothly, etc. As a hobbyist and even for professionals that's just the reality of high tech turbo charged German cars no matter how much you pay for the parts.


 like i said im going to shut my mouth and just install it. if it blows up in my face then it does.


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## JWoody (May 17, 2006)

This Thread and the other you have made are a disgrace to dubbers and FT. You sir, are asking too much in today's world with the way economics are now. China builds nearly everything much like Japan was doing in the 80"s. The world supplies them licensing and specs to build and they do it well. And sometimes not so well. So he didn't specifically say on the website, the damn "Operators Manual" has the worst Broken English I have seen yet. 

If UNI, RAI, ForceFed and other shops outside CONUS are supporting FT then I have no reason to worry about what Doug is doing or not doing. He'll back it all with a Warranty and near 24/7 support. * When UNI, RAI and FT were using my GLI as the Beta test car for the 440cc development I had no issues with that nor any worries.* _*9,000+ miles later I am still not worried.*_ 

Christ man, RAI just put down over 400WHP on the their AWD Mustang Dyno with the 2.7T setup! 

-J


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

We can hope


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

05GTIMarine said:


> like i said im going to shut my mouth and just install it. if it blows up in my face then it does.


 i think that is the best thing you said or have done since you signed up on the vortex :beer:


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## spartiati (May 19, 2008)

Brightgolf said:


> My a4 has 6 mounts, three motor mounts, two transmission mounts and a rear diff. mount. **** can get expensive once you step outside the mk4 platform. And like I said I spent $115 on a hallman pro mbc prior to installing the turbo.


 sorry about that i assumed it was a mk4 ... a4's are different ... hard to keep track of who drives what ...


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

checkdalevel said:


> i think that is the best thing you said or have done since you signed up on the vortex :beer:


 thanks. lol im just gonna drink lots of :beer::beer::beer::beer: and watch from the background. i let my anger get to me too often. cant wait to be back on zoloft to even me out lol


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

> > i think that is the best thing you said or have done since you signed up on the vortex :beer:
> 
> 
> thanks. lol im just gonna drink lots of :beer::beer::beer::beer: and watch from the background. i let my anger get to me too often. cant wait to be back on zoloft to even me out lol


 Just dont drink on the zoloft.. I used to drink on xanax, and I turned into a skull cracking loon..:screwy:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> Just dont drink on the zoloft.. I used to drink on xanax, and I turned into a skull cracking loon..:screwy:


 lol i know i was on it for 2 years prior to being seperated from the marine corps. it sucks not being able to drink as a marine lol. ill stop drinking when im back on the meds again. xanax is some ok shiz you shoulda seen me on seroquel lol it threw me on the ground. anyways like i said and told doug, i will have no more words about the frankenturbo and have deleted the pictures out of my personal belongings. hope everyones cars treat them nicely over this waterfest weekend.


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

Drinking with Xanax is what I call time travel 

You start one place and SNAP! you're somewhere else, with no recollection of how you got there.:screwy:


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## checkdalevel (Apr 29, 2005)

DMVDUB said:


> Drinking with Xanax is what I call time travel
> 
> You start one place and SNAP! you're somewhere else, with no recollection of how you got there.:screwy:


 ha ha this is soo true


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Well, I was gonna chime in and tell everyone that these logs are mine, but it seems like this thread has gone way too far out of context to do that. 

Perhaps we can get this thread holed and we can start a friendly, factual and informative thread based on a the F4T-H vs. the k04-001 using GIAC's K04-001 software. 

eace:


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## Twopnt016v (Jul 5, 2009)

I have a FT and Doug has never been anything but great on the customer service end. He responds to emails and calls right away even late on the weekends like others have already stated. I am very happy with my kit, the parts were quality and packaged in professional manner. Doug is receptive to feed back regarding anything having to do with the kit. This guy who gets on here and post pics of Doug's house is a idiot. You should never get on here and start posting dumbsh_t like that can effect peoples business and livelihood. You get better service with one of these kits then any other product I have purchased and when you get on here and talk dumbsh_t like this you can deter people from buying a quality kit. The fact that he runs his business from his house has nothing to do with the quality or the R&D behind the product. Like other people have stated, he can sell a kit cheaper because he doesn't have the overhead. You make your self look real stupid thru out this whole thread and you need to watch you conduct:facepalm:.


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## Ninorc (Nov 4, 2007)

Time for my two cents. 

Doug is the greatest business man I have ever had the pleasure to deal it. I can't say enough about the guy, he always makes himself available to pick his brain. Whether it is directly about the turbo or about the car itself. I even had an install error, snapped a bolt from the manifold to the turbo, he made it right for me. 

There is a LOT of boost spiking. I have the Mk1 model of this turbo. Which means I have a much more aggressive turbine to power the compressor. I had more spiking then high school punch at prom. My god, it was unbearable. Doug suggested running an MBC in parrellel, dialed it in, and perfect. No more spiking, just boost when I wanted it. 

I am now undergoing Motoza tuning, I was told to take the MBC out and let the software control it. No spiking, just wonderful strong boost. 


If this thread is a deciding factor for anyone in buying the Franken. I apologize for the negative comments of my fellow members. 

It is a great product sold by a proud supplier. 

And by the way, I am at 20,000 miles and 1.5 years on this turbo, no issues.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

Ninorc said:


> Doug is the greatest business man I have ever had the pleasure to deal it. I can't say enough about the guy, he always makes himself available to pick his brain. Whether it is directly about the turbo or about the car itself.
> 
> If this thread is a deciding factor for anyone in buying the Franken. I apologize for the negative comments of my fellow members.
> 
> ...


 A-freaking-men brother. 20k miles no issues. 

I don't care what business you are in, whether it be pimping hos or selling turbos, there's always gonna be a few bad experiences here and there. What Doug does, is he stands by what he sells, and provides the best service that is possible short jumping on a plane to install your turbo for you. 

I want to say that I DID NOT buy a turbo from Doug. But I did buy one from another vortex member who sold his beetle before getting a chance to install it. I got a killer deal on it and just could not pass it up. Given that, Doug has still provided me with the BEST technical service I have every experienced... PERIOD... DOT... EXCLAIMATION POINT. Now, I never gave Doug one single penny, NOT ONE CENT, yet he has still responded to numerous emails from me all within a few hours or a few minutes, every single day of the week. We've gone over a ton of logs and we are trying to determine whether it would be beneficial for me to upgrade from the GIAC k04-001 file to the k04-023. You tell me how many other vendors, in any other market would do anything like that for a non-customer like me. I am willing to bet... close to ZERO. 

Doug's the man, and my frankenturbo is the shiz. I love it and it does exactly what I expected it to do based on the research I have done. 

There will be a dyno in the near future, and I already dynoed on the k04-001 with all the same hardware, except for the turbo and the manifold so we should have some good numbers to compare. 

Thanks again Doug! I couldn't have asked for a better experence. FT for life.  :thumbup:


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## badger5 (Nov 17, 2003)

For the basher of Doug/FT, he should refrain from posting whilst clearly not of sound mind and under the influence of drugs/alcohol... End Of. fit it, enjoy it for what it is. 

Keep up the good work Doug. 
:thumbup:


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## CT.WREKT-1 (Jan 25, 2006)

05GTIMarine said:


> thats where our wrong. brightgolf is running an a4 longitudinal. you have to remove the bolts and slide the turbo foward in order to get to the waste gate. so that means a new manifold to turbo. then seeing as the bolts are only supposed to be used once, remove the manifold to get the back bolt out and replace all the 12 and 13mm nuts on the manifold which are one time use, then replace the head to manifold gasket as thats one time use as well. our consumables cost about 130 dollars to do the turbo. we use all oem nuts,washers, gaskets, and bolts. had he set the wg to the proper 5 psi none of this would have had to happen.
> 
> as for the pics i in no way shape or form showed where he lived or gave out his address. for someone running a business out of his barn i would at least hope proper storage and handling of the products people pay money for could be done. i think ill just use my f4h t as a paper weight, upgrade my rods and just throw a gtx3076 on there and call it good. we will see in a couple of months


 Please don't tell me you are a brother jarhead. Your replies and comments seem to come without first thinking about it. You are b*tching about 130 bucks for gaskets and stuff but want to drop a few grand into rods and new turbo setup. seems kinda moot. A stock wastegate is set @ it's predetermined and tested setting. a different turbo has a different WG setting. A stock k03s running in the 20's for boost. have fun changing that ish every 30k miles or so. There's TONS of data showing that's a bad idea. ANYONE can do it. Dig up SavWkO thread about what he did to his girl's 1.8t. And at the bottom it says loud and clear: "DONE FOR A DYNO ONLY, THOSE MODS ARE NOT RECOMENDED"! 

I call BS on the K03s @ 20psi...not gonna happen. 

"Brightgolf 
Can't adjust with lemmiwinks or unisettings as I don't have unitronic or revo. Apr doesn't allow for tweaks. And I shouldn't have to rely on an MBC" 

APR actually has VTUNE! All you have to do is ask the installer to unlock it for you (free) when they chip your ride. 

-The 'log style' manifold-. Dude really! If you increase the volume into which the hot stream flows then you also effectively cool it since the gas expands to fill the space. This could also have a positive effect on the turbo! Similar principles used in two stroke engine exhausts. I ran the stock and highflow manifolds on my k03s. there was a difference. 


As for the shop...Are you f'king kidding. Who cares where it's run from! Look at some pictures of poultry and dairy farms where food comes from for KFC and McDonald's. It'll make you think twice. 


As for Doug. I honestly don't know of another person helping out as much as he does for his own product. He supports his product and...Can't say enough, and we've been through a bit of rough patches and he's always been professional. 

I'm done. I won't reply to any comments against this. It'll just turn into a rant from someone who thought they were going BT but there months of research led them to learn nothing. 

Honestly best of luck with your whip, hope you get it the way you want.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

CT.WREKT-1 said:


> Please don't tell me you are a brother jarhead. Your replies and comments seem to come without first thinking about it. You are b*tching about 130 bucks for gaskets and stuff but want to drop a few grand into rods and new turbo setup. seems kinda moot. A stock wastegate is set @ it's predetermined and tested setting. a different turbo has a different WG setting. A stock k03s running in the 20's for boost. have fun changing that ish every 30k miles or so. There's TONS of data showing that's a bad idea. ANYONE can do it. Dig up SavWkO thread about what he did to his girl's 1.8t. And at the bottom it says loud and clear: "DONE FOR A DYNO ONLY, THOSE MODS ARE NOT RECOMENDED"!
> 
> I call BS on the K03s @ 20psi...not gonna happen.
> 
> ...


 as i have stated prior everything is smoothed out and taken care of. as far as running 20 psi on a k03 its a common occurrence nowadays. i was running 23psi and ramped down to 19 psi at redline and got fuel cut as i am rinning stock 317cc injectors. 

im not bitching about 130 dollars in hardware. i only use oem hardware and will wait the three days for it to come in if needed. i just ordered more. 

anyways my turbo install starts tomorrow night and finish up on thurs morning when the cars completely cool. our hallman pros come in today so thats a huge plus and we will see brightgolfs car running 21 psi limit tonight. other than that. 

as for big turbo and more we have a project motor that we are going to tear down to the bare block and rebuild as the winter progresses, get standalone and transplant it into something much lighter than the mk4/b6 pigs we own.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

Maybe this thread needs to get locked too. I dunno, though. Some of last night's posts were priceless Vortex stuff. 

Can I propose we limit the discussion of this thread to either: 



GIAC tuning 

Favored anti-depressants 

 

Hmmm. Really, maybe it oughtta be locked.


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## Sinner44 (Oct 11, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Hmmm. Really, maybe it oughtta be locked.


 lawlz....

And speaking of GIAC....

I'm thinking about heading down to Sac tonight after I head home and feed the dogs, so I can go and get some hopefully worthwhile logs for you...instead of my shatty 4,500ft logs lol


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## Sinner44 (Oct 11, 2006)

Sinner44 said:


> I'm thinking about heading down to Sac tonight after I head home and feed the dogs, so I can go and get some hopefully worthwhile logs for you...instead of my shatty 4,500ft logs lol


 
Sorry that plan is scrapped...I have to work on a 1.8t Beetle after I get off work :facepalm:


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

alright guys. we are having to tear apart brightgolfs car. there is a howling sound coming from the turbo from 5-19 psi. anyone have experiences with this issue. the blades seem fine, very minimal shaft play. the car does not make sound until the engine is heated up, then like clockwork the howling begins. 


????


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## DMVDUB (Jan 11, 2010)

starved for oil.


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## [email protected] (Jul 1, 2009)

re. the noise: I had a report from another user reporting something like this; he wrote: 

_I went around to all the t-bolt clamps I installed and tried to really tighten things up. 

In particular I tightened the t-bolt clamp that holds the silicone charge elbow to the turbo. 

the metal on metal sound which i guess was a boost leak from that connection went 

away.​_


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

DMVDUB said:


> starved for oil.


 Thats what i was thinking. 

upon completion of the installation we primed the oil system for a bout 1 min with the injectors and the coilpacks unplugged. we then ran the car at idle for about 30 minutes. when i fist drove the car i wouldnt let it go above 5 psi and did that all day. 

what steps am i missing here????


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

[email protected] said:


> re. the noise: I had a report from another user reporting something like this; he wrote:
> 
> _I went around to all the t-bolt clamps I installed and tried to really tighten things up.
> 
> ...


 i triple checked that connection as it was on my list of most important. when we removed the snorkel that goes from the airbox to the front of the car the sound was noticeably louder.


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## SB_GLI (Oct 17, 2005)

No offense, but how does this have anything to do with the original topic of this thread? Cripes dude, you ruined this thread big time.


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## 05GTIMarine (Nov 11, 2008)

SB_GLI said:


> No offense, but how does this have anything to do with the original topic of this thread? Cripes dude, you ruined this thread big time.


 well its only a matter of time till it gets locked. might as well ask some frankenturbo related questions while its still here. 

im being civil and still getting flamed. i must be bi losing


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

05GTIMarine said:


> well its only a matter of time till it gets locked. might as well ask some frankenturbo related questions while its still here.
> 
> im being civil and still getting flamed. i must be bi losing


 Because you crossed the line big time buddy. The damage is done. You should be licking Dougs a$$ after what you posted. 

I have nothing against you personally, but damn...


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## sledge0001 (Oct 7, 2007)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> B You should be licking Dougs a$$ after what you posted.


 Bahahahaa :thumbup:


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