# AWD System Haldex or Torsen



## webcrawlr (Oct 24, 2006)

Anybody heard if the AWD model is Haldex or Torsen?


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

webcrawlr said:


> Anybody heard if the AWD model is Haldex or Torsen?



It's MQB platform which is transverse engine which means Haldex.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Audi's new Quattro Ultra ditches the Torsen center differential for a setup like the Haldex 5. Like the Haldex 5, it can decouple the rear axle, so it can run as a FWD for conditions that can maximize fuel economy... this is in longitudinal engines.

https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en...3/quattro-all-wheel-drive-for-the-future-5505


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## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> Audi's new Quattro Ultra ditches the Torsen center differential for a setup like the Haldex 5. Like the Haldex 5, it can decouple the rear axle, so it can run as a FWD for conditions that can maximize fuel economy... this is in longitudinal engines.
> 
> https://www.audi-mediacenter.com/en...3/quattro-all-wheel-drive-for-the-future-5505


I don't think this technology is being applied to the Atlas. Its engine is transversely mounted; the extent of the AWD is the Haldex 5 but not what is described as Ultra Tech.
The con to having an AWD setup like this, is that it is limited to how much of tow load it can handle. A torsen setup is much more robust which can handle at least 6,600 lbs.

Ideally, this truck should have come with the new V6 turbo motor with a true Quattro setup (torsen).
The R36 motor is ancient and old technology, and because of it's short falls to efficiency, VAG decided to use the Haldex system instead, to make-up for its lack of fuel efficiency.


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## jkopelc (Mar 1, 2017)

Interesting post.

So although we have a tried and true VR6 engine (been around for ages) - completely understand it may not be as efficient as some of the other motors out there. Great to see it paired with the 8 speed transmission though. And so to also combat some of the perceived inefficiency of the motor, VW has opted to go with the Haldex AWD system which will operate predominantly in FWD unless until less than ideal traction in which case the rear wheels will be engaged.


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## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

jkopelc said:


> Interesting post.
> 
> So although we have a tried and true VR6 engine (been around for ages) - completely understand it may not be as efficient as some of the other motors out there. Great to see it paired with the 8 speed transmission though. And so to also combat some of the perceived inefficiency of the motor, VW has opted to go with the Haldex AWD system which will operate predominantly in FWD unless until less than ideal traction in which case the rear wheels will be engaged.


Correct :thumbup:


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Don® said:


> I don't think this technology is being applied to the Atlas. Its engine is transversely mounted; the extent of the AWD is the Haldex 5 but not what is described as Ultra Tech.
> The con to having an AWD setup like this, is that it is limited to how much of tow load it can handle. A torsen setup is much more robust which can handle at least 6,600 lbs.
> 
> Ideally, this truck should have come with the new V6 turbo motor with a true Quattro setup (torsen).
> The R36 motor is ancient and old technology, and because of it's short falls to efficiency, VAG decided to use the Haldex system instead, to make-up for its lack of fuel efficiency.


Ultra tech works similar to haldex 5, both have a decoupler for the rear axle to operate in FWD mode. But haldex 5 can only go up to 50:50 bias. Quattro ultra can send up to about 70% to the rear.

Also, we don't get the 300 hp R36 motor. That motor has less torque than the US 3.6L VR6 so it can use a DSG gearbox back then. We get less HP but more torque.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## jkopelc (Mar 1, 2017)

Can any of the more technical previous posters comment on performance of the AWD system? (Have we seen this engine with other 4Motion systems? Alltrack, Tiguan etc? or do they have a different engine and/or different torsten or haldex system).

I guess what I am trying to get at is how will the AWD system perform and is it comparable to anything else VW has or Audi has? We have seen some media test reports/drives from Quebec in the snow and everyone seemed to have really high praise. Curious if that is just the opinion of the "average joe" and to them the system really seemed able to handle everything versus the opinion of someone here with more technical knowledge who can comment on the power / torque etc. Also it was commented that we get less HP but more torque - is one better than the other when it comes to AWD (as torque refers to the rotational power of the engine versus HP refers to the lateral power so really not sure if one number is better to look at than the other in this case)


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## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

I have a Q7 3.0T and the Quattro system on it is great. Longitudinal mounted and it has no issues with rugged terrain or hauling. Haven't had to service it at all. My A3 Quattro on the other hand has the haldex system and again it's great, but only comes on when needed. I have it tuned so it does come on a bit more aggressive. It's load and yaw based so you really don't notice when it is not engaged.

My gripe about it, is having to service it every 60,000 kms, it's not cheap.

I'm contemplating getting the Atlas, but I'm not impressed with VR6 and Haldex combo. The Toureg on the other hand comes with the Torsen Quattro. I would have rather liked to see it come with the 2.0TSI from the Golf R and Haldex setup. Good power, torque, better fuel mileage.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

jkopelc said:


> Can any of the more technical previous posters comment on performance of the AWD system? (Have we seen this engine with other 4Motion systems? Alltrack, Tiguan etc? or do they have a different engine and/or different torsten or haldex system).
> 
> I guess what I am trying to get at is how will the AWD system perform and is it comparable to anything else VW has or Audi has? We have seen some media test reports/drives from Quebec in the snow and everyone seemed to have really high praise. Curious if that is just the opinion of the "average joe" and to them the system really seemed able to handle everything versus the opinion of someone here with more technical knowledge who can comment on the power / torque etc. Also it was commented that we get less HP but more torque - is one better than the other when it comes to AWD (as torque refers to the rotational power of the engine versus HP refers to the lateral power so really not sure if one number is better to look at than the other in this case)


the B6 Passat we got had the BLV VR6 with 4Motion combo, but that was with an older generation Haldex, either a 2nd generation or 4th generation.

The US Tiguan has a 4th gen Haldex, which works differently from the current 5th gen. It has a 90:10 default split, and in rare cases, can transfer almost all its power to the the rear axle.

The caveat with the Quebec drive, is it has winter tires, supposedly studded, to be in compliance with Quebec province's winter tire law, so of course, its AWD performance will be a lot better, since it has better tires for traction.


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## PLF8593 (Feb 11, 2014)

Don® said:


> I don't think this technology is being applied to the Atlas. Its engine is transversely mounted; the extent of the AWD is the Haldex 5 but not what is described as Ultra Tech.
> The con to having an AWD setup like this, is that it is limited to how much of tow load it can handle. A torsen setup is much more robust which can handle at least 6,600 lbs.
> 
> Ideally, this truck should have come with the new V6 turbo motor with a true Quattro setup (torsen).
> The R36 motor is ancient and old technology, and because of it's short falls to efficiency, VAG decided to use the Haldex system instead, to make-up for its lack of fuel efficiency.


Whike i agree with everything you're saying (Since it's all factual), VW wanted to make an SUV that is competetive in the American car market. To do so, it needed to cost less money. They weren't gonna pass savings on to customers with a new audi engine and a high quality AWD system.


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## Don® (Oct 11, 2011)

PLF8593 said:


> Whike i agree with everything you're saying (Since it's all factual), VW wanted to make an SUV that is competetive in the American car market. To do so, it needed to cost less money. They weren't gonna pass savings on to customers with a new audi engine and a high quality AWD system.


Agreed, they had to be competitive and I believe they did a good job at doing that. I ordered one myself, it's a lot of truck for the price. :thumbup:

I believe the new Explorer comes with their version of an Intelligent AWD system - I guess similar to the Haldex system.


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## Chris4789 (Nov 29, 2017)

*Good Article on Haldex Gen V*

This is an interesting article about the Haldex Gen V system in the Atlas. It also compares the Haldex AWD system vs. 4WD systems and is very educational. I’m not trying to start a discussion on which is the best AWD/4WD system, as that soon becomes a religious argument. 

This is just a good 10 minute read for those interested and starts off with:
"Haldex" in this context refers to recent all-wheel drive (AWD) systems used by Volkswagen's 4Motion and Audi Quattro transverse drivetrains. 
(Longitudinal drivetrain VWs and Audis employ a Torsen center differential AWD system.) Some have referred to Haldex as "fake" AWD. I'll explain 
as best I can and leave you to decide on your own. 
http://www.wolfeden.org/cars/golf-r/haldex.html


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

The Haldex works great is more than adequate...have it in my Atlas and Golf Sportwagen. Brilliant.


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## Hfqkhal (Oct 14, 2018)

Well I can say it worked beautifully in the past few days with the snow we had in VA. My past A4 3.0 quatro was a great performer in bad weather and snow and saved me from going right into a tree on a turn. In the past few days, now that my Atlas is over 1k miles, I have been pushing it to the max to get to know what to expect from it. I can say it has performed so well and I was actually shocked how it kept its pace it wouldn’t let me have the car slide and with no grip on front tires it the rears did the job so well that it shocked me. At times when you want to live with a car you need to know it’s limits and the Atlas did just as good as a 2018 Q7 Quattro. I had experiences with other AWD SUVs and in all honesty this surpasssed them all so far.


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## PZ (May 9, 2002)

Both have their advantages. Haldex is generally more efficient but requires services. Torsen is mechanical but if you have 1 wheel off the ground, it may not let the vehicle move as it needs some friction to work. Drop a CV on a B5 and it will not move. My B5 uses Torsen.


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