# The all carb diet.



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

And if you don't like 'em...try to keep the hate posts to a minimum, ok?







. It'd be nice to see who is running what.
Here's my collection:
The Dellorto DHLA 40Hs (emissions-based carb) currently on my car (under construction)








Some Mikuni 40PHHs I just picked up...in case the Dells are a bit too much extra work to tune around the 'emissions' mods they have.








I've also got a nice downdraft manifold from a Canadian-spec MkIII Golf CL (it runs a TBI setup, on the carb manifold) that I'm tempted to play with one day. A nice little progressive Weber...mmm.


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: The all carb diet. (B4S)*

Here's my set-up. DCOE45's on a custom manifold. this was fun, but im going to be changing it up with some 48's and a shorter manifold. 








only problems i had with this set-up was i had to pop-up the back of the hood to clear the carbs, and the trumpets were too close to the raintray to run filters. good thing it was in a racecar.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I've always liked the look of that setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: The all carb diet. ([email protected])*

That's a pretty kickass setup on the 16v!
Did you have any problems with the carbs being somewhat far away from the head, and/or the fact that the air fuel mix has to make a near 180 degree turn?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: The all carb diet. (Jettaboy1884)*

If anything, I'm guessing that the atomization of the fuel would be pretty thorough. As long as it didn't end up pooling anywhere, I bet it ran really well. The aircooled guys sometimes end up using long manifolds like that, in a single carb setup.


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I've always liked the look of that setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

X2


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Spent the afternoon under the car, getting filty (I really need to paint the garage floor) and installing the exhaust. Got a nice little vid after I set the idle speed and did a basic sync on the carbs while I wait for my balancer to arrive. I am in LOVE with the sound of these carbs...it's awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRftT_aAkpI


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_... I am in LOVE with the sound of these carbs...it's awesome!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRftT_aAkpI

Agreed! Sounds good. Now go out and do a few WOT pulls - In car, and outside.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Jettaboy1884)*

Still pretty far off from that I'm afraid







.
Incomplete brake lines, no axles, windshield, fenders, doors, interior, etc


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## FATGUYINALITTLEDUB (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: The all carb diet. (B4S)*

weber 45's 2L bored to a 2.1L and a list of internal goodies to long to post...











_Modified by FATGUYINALITTLEDUB at 11:12 AM 7-2-2008_


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: The all carb diet. (FATGUYINALITTLEDUB)*

I've been having 'teething pains' with my Dells, the car has been a HUGE pain to start up. All those problems are solved now, and it turns out the issue is a carb-ignorant owner







.
Here's what I've learned: 
- when running without a manual choke cable, the 'pump-pump-crank' method of starting the car requires MORE than 1/8" throttle while cranking. I've never had to push the gas when starting a car, who knew.
- if there is a manual choke available, USE IT. This is apparently not recommended for Webers DCOEs due to it being too crude, but my Dellortos LOVE it. Pull cable, turn key, VROOM! No pedal required. The 2000 rpm idle is fun too







.
- if there is an obvious leak (say, at the acc pump jet covers that keeps the diaphragm from priming the system), FIX THEM IMMEDIATELY. They work MUCH better with new gaskets (ghetto O-rings from a local auto parts store) keeping the gas in.
I gotta tell ya, after being a die-hard EFI/Standalone guy for 10 years, these things are really showing me what I *don't* know about cars, and I like it. Very eye-opening, and I haven't even gotten to the road tuning yet. The appeal of never having to have a laptop in the car is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


_Modified by B4S at 9:09 AM 7-3-2008_


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## FairyTail_Rabbit (Apr 11, 2008)

WEAK. I'll post some picks of my 8 sets when i get home.

...carbs are for men.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (FairyTail_Rabbit)*

Hey, I've only just started collecting







.
I've got a set of H4 SUs in the basement though, considering giving them a try after the Dells







.


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Hey, I've only just started collecting







.









here is a hint,
Buy EVERY Italian DCOE core you can find, Udig?
Considering most of us are running the Spanish stuff.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Noted







.
Almost had a carb-removing-and-going-back-to-EFI moment last night when the throttle linkage on the leftmost carb that connects to the balance screw mechanism fell off. My motivation to remove the carb and repair it was low, but I got it done. The last thing I did before bed was fire the car up just to hear the sound.
Tomorrow I start re-balancing the carbs.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The final result, mixture set and carbs balanced







.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lep0bwRXPRI


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)




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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

^^^^^^^^^^
NO mounts? 
Straight metal on metal??
Luv IT!!!!
Makin' it happen, Udig?
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (the12for12)*

I'm tempted to use the plastic spacers/O-ring setup I have, my MISAB gaskets and rubber isolators seem to let air leak out slightly. On a lean pop (prior to the current tune) I could see it from between the manifold and carbs. I tightened it up a bit, and so far so good...but realistically, how bad is the aerating if it's metal to metal?


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

I don't have any problems, but It's a 1/4 mile car. I couldn't get the 2 orings and holder to seal correctly, always had leaks. Probably a bad quality one, but I would rather have them bolted solid with a paper gasket.


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

Metal on metal is VERY doable, Udig?
I just thought I was the only NUT who did it!
As I said before .... makin' it happen http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I'm tempted to use the plastic spacers/O-ring setup I have, my MISAB gaskets and rubber isolators seem to let air leak out slightly. On a lean pop (prior to the current tune) I could see it from between the manifold and carbs. I tightened it up a bit, and so far so good...but realistically, how bad is the aerating if it's metal to metal?

Make cardboard gaskets. 
Rubber and heat doesn't mix well, Udig? Add gas and things really get nutted up quick. 
More leaks than a recycled geriatric diaper 


_Modified by the12for12 at 6:32 AM 7-8-2008_


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Drove the car under it's own power tonight, for 10'







.
Holy hell it's loud...and I'm running a 1.5" exhaust. 
All carb growl baby!


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (the12for12)*

The reason you are lean popping is most likey those leaks. Take a propane torch, turn the gas on low, and wave it around the carb to manifold area. Listen for idle changes.
The plastic spacers break if you overtighten them, and leak/suck in the oring if they are under torqued. No win situation for me at least.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: (the12for12)*

well, actually, no. I don't dig. I read in both the Braden and the Passini weber books the importance of the soft mount. Found on Bradens book page 126:
"First, a warning: Sidedraft Webers such as the DCO series are very sensitive to vibration such as found on four cylinder engines. Severe engine vibrations cause fuel to foam in the float bowl, which adversely affects the float level and mixture strength. For this reason, always use a rubber spacer between the carb and the intake manifold to isolate the float bowl. "
I don't know, maybe I just don"t have the right shovel or something.......


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## FairyTail_Rabbit (Apr 11, 2008)

O-rings are junk. solid mounting approved by me, too.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: (FairyTail_Rabbit)*

wow. such verbiage.
I am not trying to be a PITA nor do I want to hijack any threads, but I have a vested interest in the final outcome of this discussion. I was under the influence that the spacer also acts as a heat dispersion barrier between the carbs and the intake manifold. As you can see. I would certainly like to avoid having to pull the carbs again after i drop this head in. Does anyone run the spacers and NOT have a problem with them?


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## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (VenaGTi)*

I run them. haven't had any problems yet, but you need to tightent hem very slowly and evenly or they may leak. takes some time but i would rather run the o-rings and spacers other then a paper gasket.


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## Rubberband (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I run the spacers too. Never had a problem with orings falling out or cracking the plastic inserts either. I really doubt the flanges on the carbs/manifold are really all that flat and parallel so I never ran them with just a paper gasket. It has to be easier to get these mounted up when they are on the front of the motor like my 16v. Id imaging it would be a PITA on an 8valve. I use a little petroleum grease to coat the orings to keep them from falling out when installing them on the manifold. Works to keep the orings in the oring gland.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Rubberband)*

Lots of good info in here, definitely







.
I've managed to get the MISAB gaskets/softmounts to work, I just had to tighten the rubber isolators/nuts down a bit more than I read I should. There is still some movement in the carb bodies, but not enough to do anything to their balance or create leaks, like I must have been getting before. Once the car is assembled a bit further, I'm going to spray brake cleaner on the mounting surfaces and see what happens. If it leaks...well...anybody want to buy a proven, working carb setup?


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: (B4S)*

ya. i noticed that i felt a little better tightening the carbs more as well. there is some specific clearance that the thackery washers are supposed to have but i couldn't measure it. flat blade feeler guages suck for this. you would need wire guages which i don't have. let us know how your shizz works out http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (VenaGTi)*

i have been through this. started off with a borg-warner style soft mount which is like the misab spacer ( metal spacer with o-rings ), using thackery washers ( spring washer ) to tighten.had problems with leaks. probably my own fault but at this point i went to the plastic mounts with thackery washers. you are supposed to tighten them until you have like .035" gap between the coils but because it was impossible to see the underside, what i did was tighten them all until they just got snug, not torqued, then backed them all out 3/4 of a turn. i have done this numerous times and have had no problems. some people swear by the cosworth style rubber bushing with cup washers and a locknut but as mentioned above- no problems with the plastic softmounts and thackery washers


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

ARG.
Still have leaks!








I'm going to give snugging them down and backing off a bit a try, and if that doesn't work...I'm going to go back to use the spacers/O-rings I've got in the wings.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

take your time. its easy to get frustrated with what should be a simple deal. once they start to have a little tension on them from tightening, start tightening them like you would a cylinder head. go a 1/4 turn, then go to the next one. once they get snug to the point where you would actually have to force the wrench or socket wrench to go further ( and this is all by feel ) , then back them off 3/4 of a turn and you should be okay. if you have been fiddling around with this for awhile, get some new o-rings and start over. the thing with carbs is that you buy a new set and there is nothing with them. no float level instructions, adjustment info, nothing, and trying to find anything out from different sources can be frustrating. you should be close to having those going pretty soon. just take your time. good luck


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## Rubberband (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

finger tight all the nuts then tighten in sequence like candm said. Those soft mounts also compensate for wavy, irregular surfaces.


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

I use the Misab gaskets and the rubber washers with the cups, I found they work far better than the crappy plastic spacers and thackery washers (which are absolute garbage). I just tighten the nuts until I have a fingernail width between the two cup washers....seems to be the easiest to tell for gap (you can feel it). It worked for me, no more massive leakage problem, although if you're using the nylock nuts, you'll probably have to use blue loctite (the removable stuff) to keep the nuts from backing off. I found that my studs weren't long enough to engage the nylon locking compound before the cups and washers were fully compressed.
Oh yeah....and pics.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

That's what I ended up doing last night. The gap (according to the Des Hammill book) is supposed to be 2mm or so IIRC, but that sucks. It tidied up most of my leaks, but since I've got emissions carbs, they've got idle bypass screws on each barrell, and two of them are leaky. I'll be fixing that today, and checking again.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

turn those bypass screws in until they seat, then tighten the locknut. you dont really need fiddle with them. get the carbs setup and balanced first, using the inner bores of each carb to balance with a flow meter. once those are dialed in, if you feel like it, then adjust your bypass screws to get all bores the same for a little bit smoother idle


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

Idle air bypass screws completely seated, and the towers they're recessed into are now filled with silicone. Never using them again, and they could be a leak source IMO. I managed to get rid of the leak by going a bit extra tight on the two middle barrels, so I think the manifold isn't flat in that area. I've also got one idle screw that requires a full turn further out than the other three, confirmed by the colortune. I'm expecting another one in the mail soon, so I'll be able to run two at once to compare color of burn. Right now I've got the max rpm out of each cylinder, and turning any screw in more than a half turn results in an RPM drop, so I'm not worried. Once the butterflies open, then it's a non-issue. I have zero intake leaks now, so I'm not worried about a lean cylinder.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
success?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Pretty much, I'm a bit concerned with the one idle screw that is radically different, but at least the leak is gone. I'll pop the idle jet out and see if it's the same as the others. If it is, I'll just stop fussing and get to finishing the car







.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

sometimes you will have the mixture screw of 1 bore in or out more than the others. if you are more than 31/2 turns or less than 11/2 turns then you should get a richer or leaner idle jet for that cylinder


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

On three of the screws I believe I'm at 2.75 turns, and the fourth one I am around 3.5-3.75. As much as I try to convince myself there is no leak, and even though the empirical data (ie: liberal spray of brake cleaner) points to the same thing...I'm not convinced. I'm going to give it one last check tonight, I'll empty a can of brake cleaner if I have to.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

@#*&)(@#*$)(@*!_!_+$(%)*(*@)*_!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm dumping those silly Misab gaskets and going to the cast aluminum spacers with O-rings I have. I still have massive leaks. This time I sprayed the brake cleaner right down between the manifold and carbs, along the misab edge, and the rpms dropped hardcore







.
If the spacers don't work...then I'm going solid. I'm on stock engine mounts with a stock cam...I doubt aeration will be an issue.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

maybe take the manifold to a machine shop and have them cut new surfaces on both sides. it can't hurt and it gives you a nice flat to work with. the carbs can be surfaced too, if your willing to take them apart totaly. you can do this in an afternoon as i'm sure you know by now........it only cost me $40 to have the manifold done. when you get the carbs off, check it with a straight edge. good luck and let us know how you do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (VenaGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VenaGTi* »_maybe take the manifold to a machine shop and have them cut new surfaces on both sides. it can't hurt and it gives you a nice flat to work with. the carbs can be surfaced too, if your willing to take them apart totaly. you can do this in an afternoon as i'm sure you know by now........it only cost me $40 to have the manifold done. when you get the carbs off, check it with a straight edge. good luck and let us know how you do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VenaGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VenaGTi* »_maybe take the manifold to a machine shop and have them cut new surfaces on both sides. it can't hurt and it gives you a nice flat to work with. the carbs can be surfaced too, if your willing to take them apart totaly. you can do this in an afternoon as i'm sure you know by now........it only cost me $40 to have the manifold done. when you get the carbs off, check it with a straight edge. good luck and let us know how you do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

This will be what happens if the spacers fail on me too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
I was so wound up last night, that I ended up in the garage in my boxers last night, removing the carbs before I went to bed







. 10 minutes and they were off the manifold...I love the simplicity of these things. 
I will *not* give up! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vdub4life_89 (Dec 2, 2003)

here is mine


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (vdub4life_89)*

Nice! Solexs'? My Mikunis look similar.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Dumped the misab gaskets today, and went with the cast-aluminim O-ring holders. Going on a tip from an Alfa Romeo forum (alfabb.com), I put a bit of high temp grease on the O-rings before installing them in the holders. Also dumped the rubber isolators and cups, straight nut and washer. The leaks, I've discovered now that the manifold is off, is due to the over-porting of the manifold (from previous-previous owner). The misab gaskets overlap into the port, offering very little sealing surface. The O-ring holders eliminate that issue







.
Now...I need a new intake gasket, the new one I had on there was gas-soaked and crumbled away







.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

you don't need a gasket between the intake mani and the head. if your mani is cut flat, just a little bit of high temp copper snot and you will never have a problem. i learned that from Dana of Dana's autosport in N.H. He raced a bunch of 8v rabbits in the 90's and had a shop in Heniker, iirc. i used his advice on my 32/36 carbed motor and never had a problem. again, i had that mani cut too.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

There was some gasket residue on the manifold when I got it, maybe I should check it with a straight edge and see what it's like.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Heh...got a goodie coming in the mail, hopefully before the end of the summer. Can't wait







.
Might mean I have a dual sidedraft setup for sale, now that it's finally perfect,







.
It's still carb-related though...no worries







.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_now that it's finally perfect, 

glad to hear it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
hope to get mine running soon too. still resolving some a/c issues. yes, that's right....a/c on a dual carb set up. ought to be a freakin' nightmare


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## hans j (Nov 30, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (VenaGTi)*

carbs... soon to be just throttle bodies.


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## CozySpeed (Sep 24, 2006)

counterflows on carbs my dream engine, some day


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (CozySpeed)*

Heh...got my tracking number today







.
My dual carb setup might be for sale sooner than expected...


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: (B4S)*

and what exactly are we tracking now?








didn't ya just get your shizzz to purr?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (VenaGTi)*

Yep, but I've always had a nagging doubt in the back of my head that my dual carb setup goes against the plan I have for the car. I'm more concerned with low end driveability, grunt, and getting the best fuel efficiency I can get out of a carbed car. I'm wasting dual carbs on grandpa-driving IMO.
I'm not dead-set on swapping them out just yet though...it's just nice to have options







.


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## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

You can't grandpa drive dual carbs. Your right foot will take over and won't let you................


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (speedtek40)*

learn dual carbs and the force will be with you


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: (candm)*

wait...these are NOT the carbs i was tuning....


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I can't keep it in any longer, this is what I'm waiting for: 








My plan was to use one of the Mikunis on it, but I can't find any Mikuni PHH pump jets







. They currently have 40s, but I would need some that are a tad larger, like 48s or 50s. My Dells are emissions units with 5 LARGE progression holes, and until I see how the tuning goes on the dual setup, I'm not going to commit one of them to the new manifold setup. My other option would be to buy more carbs...twist my arm







.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

twist twist *cough *dcoe 45 *cough*coughand one more twist


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Trust me...I'm already eBaying







.


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Single 48 or 50 is way overkill. When you have a 1 barrel per cylinder setup, each draws through a 40, 45, 48, etc barrel. With 2 cylinders per barrel, each one is still only drawing through one barrel, one cylinder at a time. Put a single 40, maybe a 45 on that manifold and be extremely happy with it.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Oh yeah, if I do end up running it, which is entirely possible seeing as how I just got finished with the struggle to re-balance by duals and am fed up to *makes chopping motion at forehead* here, I'll be using a 40 with 34mm chokes. 
I just got finished reassembling everything, and FINALLY have no leaks.


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_My plan was to use one of the Mikunis on it, but I can't find any Mikuni PHH pump jets







. They currently have 40s, but I would need some that are a tad larger, like 48s or 50s. 

$6 each http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.wolfcreekracing.com/


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_ Put a single 40, maybe a 45 on that manifold and be extremely happy with it.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Baja recipe of success for years !!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (the12for12)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the12for12* »_
$6 each http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
http://www.wolfcreekracing.com/

Hot DAMN! I completely forgot about those guys! Thanks for the memory jog, I'll be ordering some larger pump jets, 1.8 needle valve, and maybe some 34mm chokes (if they still have any)







.
I love this forum, and GREATLY appreciate the sharing of info that isn't common knowledge anymore.







for all!


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## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

N/M...haha...I misread what you typed. Thought you wanted to swap up to 48-50mm carbs, not pumpjets. 
Guess I should read more gooder


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

Just ordered a 1.8 needle valve, and a couple 45 and 50 pump jets







.
Muahahahahaha!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I just installed an old-school Jacobs Pro-Street ignition, and WHOA did it make a difference. I'm gapped at 0.040" and I was able to lean it out at idle by a full turn on the mixture screws (Dellorto fine-thread). It's idling smooth as silk and nearly 14:1! The throttle response is AMAZING, the slight stumble when giving it a quick shot at idle is non-existant now. This is before the car is warmed up too! It used to idle at 12-13:1, and wasn't super smooth, now it's easily 13.5:1 and sounds like a fuel injected car at idle.
I'm now a believer in aftermarket ignitions on carbed cars http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*









Had it idling at 16:1 today...







.


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## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
I'm now a believer in aftermarket ignitions on carbed cars http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.

Jacoubs ALL day http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
The newer units are even better and cheaper! Wires included


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (the12for12)*

The yellow wires kinda stick out don't they







.


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

so I assume there aren't too many MSD fans here?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The Jacobs setup I got came with the carbs, so for me...it was the clear choice







.


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VenaGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VenaGTi* »_so I assume there aren't too many MSD fans here?

I love my MSD setup, works fantastic....especially with the 8980 timing computer.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

Mallory all the way.
MSD is the nike of ignitions. IMO, overpriced.
Mallory is the bottom shelf special that does all the same stuff for much less.
I run a mallory VI CDIS. Nitrous window switch, all digital, staging and top end limiter, boost retard, start retard, adjustable selectable retard, and more. And there is no pills, it has a digital display for programming. Another cool feature is the tach calibration. I found out my Autometer tach was off by 300 rpm @ 8000RPM.
All for $250! http://www.jegs.com/p/Mallory/...10385


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

two fifty is the ball park figure these days.
And if I wasn't concerned with tech support and warranty, I would buy other units
11 years on my DD and the Ultra coil only hiccuped once
I'm still researching the Jeg's and Summit entry level stuff, but it looks doable.


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

If you do some shopping you can get the MSD stuff a lot cheaper than regular. I picked up an MSD 6ALN (nascar version with limiter), blaster 2 coil and an 8980 timing computer on ebay for under $300 and everything works perfect. It may normally command a premium price, but it is a good product. I haven't seen anyone else with an equivalent part to the 8980, with a fixed dizzy it is the cat's azzz.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (speedtek40)*

The 8980 is all in by 3000rpm. Why not just leave the distributor locked out? You want all in while cruising for economy, and how often are you below 3 while accelerating? Just something to think about. I used to own an 8980, too.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I find with more than 10-15* under cranking conditions, the engine likes to lock up. If whatever product you're using has a start-retard function, than running locked out is probably ok. On a street engine though, the ignition curve can be used to tune the torque curve towards your chosen driving style. I might give the locked-out a try, when I eventually switch from my CIS-E ignition to Megasquirt. I like the idea of having a programmable ignition curve on my carbed car







.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

What do you guys think about the 8680 instead of the 8980 timing controller? Its the same thing but adjustable from 0-15deg of advance. Its also $20 cheaper @ $131 at jegs.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (WhiteG60)*

It's designed to work with a factory ignition box, so it won't work on it's own. If you were to run a vac advance dizzy without the vacuum hooked up, it would be great for that.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_It's designed to work with a factory ignition box, so it won't work on it's own. If you were to run a vac advance dizzy without the vacuum hooked up, it would be great for that.

Well here's my schtick. I'm running an ABA with dellorto 45s. I already have a 6A box. What else do I need to make it run? If I can run the ABA dizzy, i'd like to.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (WhiteG60)*

I removed the aba rotor, and replaced it with 4 slot wheel and sensor out of an older 8v, since the aba is a 1 slot wheel (IIRC). Then wired to the stock scirocco/ older 8v ignitor, then to the ignition box. The wheel can be removed by tapping on the center of it with a hammer, where the rotor attaches. Be careful not to mushroom it. If you do, dremel is your friend. The gear and shaft will drop out. Put the gear and shaft back in after you replace the hall sender with the older style, then place the new wheel on top. Support the gear, and tap the new wheel in place with a socket that fits the inner circle of the gear, being carefull not to bend it. If you bend it, start over with a new wheel as it might hit the sensor and blow it to pieces at high rpm.










_Modified by MkIIRoc at 3:19 PM 7-30-2008_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

You can, but you'll need the MSD timing computer, and an ICM from an older car IIRC.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_You can, but you'll need the MSD timing computer, and an ICM from an older car IIRC.

None of that is a big deal. I do need to swap the window ring for a single window though correct? Silly distributers. I'm used to my 2.0L 20v Turbo on 034


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (WhiteG60)*

No, read my post above.
The single window will not trigger the older ignitors


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_No, read my post above.
The single window will not trigger the older ignitors

Right, I may have the name wrong, but I knew i needed the ring out of a 1.8L 8v. Thats all


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_The 8980 is all in by 3000rpm. Why not just leave the distributor locked out? You want all in while cruising for economy, and how often are you below 3 while accelerating? Just something to think about. I used to own an 8980, too.

I'd be willing to bet that a vacumm dizzy is "all-in" by 3000 as well.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: (speedtek40)*


_Quote, originally posted by *speedtek40* »_
I'd be willing to bet that a vacumm dizzy is "all-in" by 3000 as well.









Vac advance should be 'all in' as soon as you're at WOT.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: (WhiteG60)*

A vac dizzy is a dual advance. The counterweights and springs vary, so you would have to check each one, since they have all been in use for ~15-20 years.
Either way, my opinion is the same. Depending on how much spark you want to throw at it, save the money and run it locked out. But to each their own


----------



## Rubberband (Sep 28, 2006)

*Re: (MkIIRoc)*

I ran mine both ways, locked out and with a timing computer for advance. The things I did notice on locked out vs timing curve with the msd was that it idled much better and the feature that retards the timing on initial startup helped as well.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The torque curve can be tuned with the ignition curve though, is locked out the best timing for all RPMs? I tend to tune for as flat and as long as possible, high numbers not super important. I'm curious now.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I have never messed with it on a dyno, but I am willing to bet the difference wil be on the order of 2 to 3 ft-lbs. Honestly, if you need tons of torque down low, TDI is your friend


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (MkIIRoc)*

I just got an 8980, a 6A, and the proper dizzy ring. Now I just need the block back from the machine shop and the car back from the body shop to put it all together! 
I also just received my How to Build and Power Tune Weber and Dellorto DCOE and DHLA Carburetors book too. I'm getting excited here.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (WhiteG60)*

That's a good book. My copy's spine is all creased from a couple years of throne room reading.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (MkIIRoc)*

Same here!








I wasn't referring to maximum torque in my above post, more like a solid flat curve that trades the most torque at one peak for the best compromise between that and a flat curve. So, instead of having a torque peak of say 3700, and 100ft/lbs, I'd be tuning via ignition timing to hit a torque peak of 2500-3500 with 85ft/lbs.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I feel ya, my torque peaks at almost 5500, so I'm out of that conversation


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Fiddled with the car last night, out of boredom. Put a stronger throttle return spring on, MUCH better now. Reset the timing too, for ishts and giggles. I still can't get over how smooth the car idles with the Jacobs ignition...even at 15:1 under warmup conditions (no choke used).
T-minus 4 days until I can legally drive the thing....


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Fiddled with the car last night, out of boredom. Put a stronger throttle return spring on, MUCH better now. Reset the timing too, for ishts and giggles. I still can't get over how smooth the car idles with the Jacobs ignition...even at 15:1 under warmup conditions (no choke used).
T-minus 4 days until I can legally drive the thing....

What ignition did you have before? Stock?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Yep, plain jane ol' CIS-E 8v knockbox setup. It's still there (obviously), just now being amplified by the Jacobs stuff.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

My Rowland single sidedraft manifold is at the post office, awaiting my arrival tomorrow morning







.
Now...run the duals for the summer and make it to the show next weekend, or swap it all out and hope it goes smoothly?
I won't be able to sleep tonight!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

A package from South Africa arrived yesterday...
















































I can't say enough good things about Rowland Manifolds in SA, the customer service is top notch, and it arrived in 8 days. After a local show next weekend I'll be swapping to a single carb...mainly because I can't leave well enough alone (and I happen to have a set of Mikuni sidedrafts just sitting around doing nothing)







.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Am I seeing only one port for vacuum on that new manifold? Any plans to change and/or correct that? Best of luck with it either way. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I plan on drilling out that port, as well as drilling the second barrel. I'll use an NPT thread tap, to make it easier to find fittings. I'm going to run both ports to the brake booster, since I don't need more than one vacuum line (CIS-E knockbox) and the check valve on the brake booster line provides that. When I swap to the above manifold, I'm removing the knockbox and planning on setting up a Megasquirt as an ignition controller.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

it's a bit windy...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbVdLZZU7Tk


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Oh, also upped the idles to 65 from 58 (damned emissions carbs) and moved to 190 airs. The main circuit was coming in too early and making my cruise AFR a bit too rich, but the larger airs will hopefully take care of that. Also, it needs leaning out up top, I'm at about 12:1 at WOT. Outside of that, I think I'm good to go with the jetting...for now







.
130 mains
190 airs
65 idles
32 chokes
42 pumps (might need to go larger on these)


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

LOL!
Well...turns out you really should DRIVE the car before settling on the jetting. I had no choice but to drive the car to the glass shop for the new windshield since the installer couldn't get it in (







), and it was a 15 minute jaunt from my place along country roads. Even though I was barely able to see through the spiderwebbed glass in my car, I had a chance to watch the wideband...and it's rich (11-12:1) under 2200, and less rich (13-14:1) above 2200. So I'm assuming then that the mains kick in somewhere around there, and that the idles are faaaaaaaaaaaaar too big. I've still got some tuning to do, obviously, but I think it's close. I'm going to swap the idles back to the 58s that were in there originally, and see what happens. My main circuit seems to be pretty good, I'd prefer a leaner cruise, but I'll take what I can get that'll still leave me with a 13:1 WOT reading.
(Oh yeah, got my 45 & 50 Mikuni pump jets, and a 1.8 needle, for the single carb setup. Big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Todd at Wolf Creek Racing)


_Modified by B4S at 8:33 PM 8-7-2008_


----------



## four2err0r (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

ok im planning on running a single carb like you b4s. here it is.








todd hooked me up with a lot of jets to help my tunning i would like to know what ends up working best. 
and here is my ? can i set up my stock ignition to run with a carb?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, it would help to know what your stock ignition is







. 
MkI, MkII, MkIII?
If it is an 81 caddy like in your profile, then it'll have a vac advance dizzy if it is stock. You can run your stock ignition for sure, but you'll lose the benefit of the vac advance, unless that vacuum port on your mikuni is ported vacuum and not manifold vacuum. I think it's ported...but not sure. If it is, then you can hook up your dizzy vacuum line to it. The spark will fire off fine, but a hotter ignition will help a lot.


----------



## four2err0r (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

yes it is a vac port. ill get a new coil asap.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (four2err0r)*

Whats everyone's opinion Solex carbs? I have a CRAZY deal on 2 barely used 40mm side draft solex's on a manifold with a pretty killer linkage for $200. They were on a 1.6L Scirocco that dynoed over 130whp.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (WhiteG60)*

b4s- those 65 idle jets are way fat. you shoudnt need bigger than a 55


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Yeah, I learned that one the hard (and expensive) way, lol. Mine are emissions carbs, with a pre-drilled idle bleed though that is the equivalent of a 220 air on the idle side, as well as 5 very large progression holes. I'm going to try the 58s first, then test out the 52s or 46s I have. My hands are tied right now, since the car isn't with me, but tonight I'll HOPEFULLY have some more info. I'm going to order a megasquirt over the winter, so that I can run a mappable ignition and datalog everything







. The carbs are staying though (or carb, depending on how it goes).


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Look's good B4S







If you want to get rid of one of the counterflow mani's LMK








Mine 2.0L 16V duel 40's mm's, mild head work, stock block (280km's







) 150whp and can daliy it all you want with great gas mileage spring to fall
























and a vid...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuY6wXW7ZU0
I think i will go and put in my other set of cams just for fun







Thats the only think i miss with carbs lumpy idle with big cams







This thing idles smooth at 900-1000rpm with 276 shrick's. Oh well the 283/279 Cats might bring it back a little. :


----------



## Shawn B (Nov 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*

Not mine but the owner is part of our club:


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Shawn B)*

Just got my dell's all done and rebuilt.
None done:








One done:








All done:








Just need to get new idle mixture screws.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Mmmmm, delicious!


----------



## littlewhitebeast (Dec 24, 2005)

ill play. my baby dellorto FRD 34B's


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I saw that thread in the Mk1 forum...I love the idea of using alternate carbs. I'm going to try a set of S.U. carbs next







.


----------



## littlewhitebeast (Dec 24, 2005)

haha thanks they run pretty damn good


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

DAMN! I'm in LOVE! What was the lower manifold that you used? Just a stock MkI version? I seriously dig that dual downdraft setup, and Beetle parts are CHEAP







.


----------



## littlewhitebeast (Dec 24, 2005)

the lower part of the intake is actually a weber intake i was able to cut on the table saw. uppers are from a 70's bus http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (littlewhitebeast)*

this thread is 
*DRY-HUMPING certified !!!!!!!*


----------



## littlewhitebeast (Dec 24, 2005)

this one shows the intake a little better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Coolness...not sure I'd feel too good about hacking up a sidedraft manifold, but the end result sure does speak volumes for the creativity of the builder http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. My hat is off to you sir!








Lets keep the carbs coming, in all shapes and flavors! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## littlewhitebeast (Dec 24, 2005)

thanks man. alot of time went into just the manifold. the lower is actually from a weber downdraft carb.
here is the old setup


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Ah ok then...this gives me ideas







.
*hunts down old downdraft manifold in parts bin*


----------



## littlewhitebeast (Dec 24, 2005)

DO IT!


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: (littlewhitebeast)*

exactly what was done to run my DHLA Dellorto downdraft application. Complete intake fabricated from junk bin stuff, Udig?
Pix available if needed


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

That could be very cool to see. I was on the hunt for an IDF or DRLA manifold for a while, before I snagged the Rowland single.


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_That could be very cool to see. I was on the hunt for an IDF or DRLA manifold for a while, before I snagged the Rowland single.

























































never mind the fuel nipple its homemade until I find a real one


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Coolness! 
Oh man...this thread is bad for me. By spring I'm going to have sooooooooooooooooooo many setups to try out, lol.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I've seen these on offroad buggy's i think? anyone


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *impulse byer* »_ I've seen these on offroad buggy's i think? anyone

Correct that DHLA intake is from the offroad scene http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (the12for12)*

wow. cool set-up. does it fit under the hood?


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (VenaGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VenaGTi* »_wow. cool set-up. does it fit under the hood?

yessir. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (the12for12)*


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Nice! Is it yours?


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m2WzBQlrUs
















No it's not mine but i'm putting one together for my other car but i'm might test it on my rocco....no i will test it on the rocco.
The other car is air cooled but is getting a water cooled conversion and a draw trough set up.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Very sweet







. 
FINALLY got my car up and legal to use as a daily now. Removed the nasty big 65 idles and went back to 58s. Cruises at 16:1, and goes 11:1 at WOT. I think I'll try my 122 mains (down from 130) with the 190 airs and see what happens. Then again, maybe I'll just let it be, since I rarely go WOT anymore at all. It's fueled perfectly for my needs, so maybe that is all that matters right now







.
The stupid vac leak is back....same damn cyl too, #2. I pinched off the brake booster line, and nothing happened (well, the idle went up due to the fact that the CIS-E ignition is getting it's vac signal from the booster line). I truly think the manifold is warped, like everyone says, so maybe it's time to swap to the single sidedraft







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Hot damn I love these things. It's the most trouble-free setup I've ever had. My quick estimates on fuel economy are pointing at 30mpg, or at a bare minimum, 25.
I can't get over how well it cruises at 16:1 with the Jacobs ignition.


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Hot damn I love these things. It's the most trouble-free setup I've ever had. My quick estimates on fuel economy are pointing at 30mpg, or at a bare minimum, 25.
I can't get over how well it cruises at 16:1 with the Jacobs ignition.

Come set up my stuff


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (WhiteG60)*

I just had an epiphany...
I've been beating myself silly trying to find my cyl #2 vac leak. I've assumed that it's now at the brake booster line since it comes off the #2 runner. I can stall the car out by putting my hand in front of all the other three cyls, but when I do it with 2, the idle drops a bit, but no chugging or stall. If I had a leak big enough to keep a cylinder firing, I'd certainly hear it when I plugged the barrel, no?
The knock box is getting it's vac signal from the brake booster line I just realised. When I plug the barrel, the vacuum drops...which alters the vac signal to the ECU. Perhaps it's altering the timing to keep the car running? I don't think the CIS-E ecu is that advanced, but I'm really tired of taking the carbs off to track a leak. I'm solid mounted now, just some aluminum spacers with o-rings. No rubber isolators or thackery washers, just nuts and washers. I'm parking the car for a week, whilst on vacation, and when I come back I may just hit up the dyno and see what happens







.
Oh, and I'm getting a CONFIRMED 31mpg hwy


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
Oh, and I'm getting a CONFIRMED 31mpg hwy










Glory http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Crap, the car was insanely hard to start today, after a day or two of sitting. Happened to see the fuel pressure gauge, and it read 1psi. I let it build, and it took a looooooooooong time to get to 3. Fired right up at that point...but the pressure quickly dropped to 1 again







. The FPR doesn't seem to be able to bring it above 1psi anymore. It's a Holley 1-4psi one, luckily, since there are diaphram repair kits for $6 if that's the issue.
I'm leaving on vacation for a week, so this new issue kinda sucks. I'll be testing the pump, fpr, and gauge when I get back. I've got a spare pump, so no matter what it'll be a cheap fix.
Man...I wanted to drive it before I left







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Ha...problem solved. I made the feed line a bit larger and turned the fuel pressure up to 4psi. The change in the car is incredible. The flat spot coming off cruise is gone, and the acc pump is more sensitive. I love it.
Man, whoever says carbs are for cavemen has no idea what they're talking about...everything is a variable with these things. It really appeals to my technical side http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Hell ya







I was told not to do it that i would have tuning problems and the would need work all the time. I say bull **** i have NO drivabillaty problems at all I can still pull 450k out of a tank witch is with a .91 5th gear in my rocco. 
I have 283/279 cat cams and it will idle @900-1000 almost smooth in my 16V. I drive the car lots all summer almost daily driver witch is alot for me work is 500k a week before going to meets and track days.


----------



## hmontaq (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*

Here is mine I bought before leaving the country. Barely got a look at it but its got dellorto 40s and a TT 288 cam. Problem is the 1.8 here is near dead. So bang for the buck I am not sure what to do. Any suggestions???


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (hmontaq)*

Digi motor or JH? They're pretty easy to find, and cheap, since everyone tends to throw them away for larger/more powerful motors. I'd just replace it, why do you think it's dead?
On another note...I figured out where my vac leak is coming from. I remember now that I had one carb with a 'crunchy' throttle actuation. The bearing is done, boooo







.
More of a reason to swap to my single DHLA setup for now, until I decide what to do.


----------



## hmontaq (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Low compression in two cylinders and sounds like crap.
Not sure whats in it. I just know its a 1.8... So you think I should drop in a 2.0 bottom end? Which engine code and how much$$$ and HP?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (hmontaq)*

Well, if you want a bit more grunt, grab an ABA from a MkIII. 2.0L is a nice upgrade from the 1.8 that is in there now, and they're cheap-ish. The block is 15mm taller than the 1.8, so you'll need to tweak a few things but nothing major.
Me personally, I love the high comp 1.8s that came in the MkIIs. 10:1 compression and 105 hp stock. People go out of their way to get rid of those motors for other ones with more power/status. I got one for free from a buddy, had 300+km on it, and after replacing the valve seals (easy job), it's going strong under the hood of my MkI. Doesn't burn a DROP of oil either







.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (hmontaq)*


_Quote, originally posted by *hmontaq* »_Low compression in two cylinders and sounds like crap.
Not sure whats in it. I just know its a 1.8... So you think I should drop in a 2.0 bottom end? Which engine code and how much$$$ and HP?

Yes aba would be real nice then you could run a serp set up it comes with. Or i got a free 1.8l mk3 cl(10:1cr http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ) bottom and used it i my old rocco made 120whp on cis people give them away both would be cheap and easy it would all bolt up.
But the 2.0l aba is a taller block so if you had a header it may not with that set up but if you have a manifold and downpipe like i did you just add a spacer.


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
Me personally, I love the high comp 1.8s that came in the MkIIs. 10:1 compression and 105 hp stock. People go out of their way to get rid of those motors for other ones with more power/status. Doesn't burn a DROP of oil either







.

BEST kept secret for carb applications http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## hmontaq (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*

Its got a header of some sort. Anyone make a 2.0 header to fit into a MKII Scirocco?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The MkI stuff for ABA swaps fits IIRC.
Tried out some filters tonight, love the way they smooth out the incoming air, my wideband display slowed right down vs the cycling it does running open stacks. Hate the way it goes quite a bit richer, which means I hope the jets I ordered last week will tidy up the fueling so I can run the filters. Right now it cruises at 16:1, and goes to 11:1 at WOT, with the filters it cruises at 14:1 and WOTs at 10:1. If can get the cruise to 15-16:1 and the WOT to 12:1, I'll be happy.
I'm going to try some 125 mains, and 200 airs, vs the 130 mains and 190 airs I have now. I tried a few combinations of jets tonight, only to revert to the 130/190 combo. Here's what I tried:
-122 mains/190 airs/with filters = too lean under all conditions, but not as bad as with the 170 airs.
-122 mains/170 airs/with filters = too lean even with the filters on.
-122 mains/170 airs/7772.6 emulsion tubes/with filters = HORRIBLE.
I didn't try the 7772.6 tubes with the 130/190 combo that I run, because compared to the .11s it has now, there hole placement really points to very little low speed enrichment, which the 5 hole carbs need to overcome the leaner transition period. I think I'll just stick with the .11s, and jet around them.
One thing I did notice, was that the minute I tried the 122 mains, was that my cruising AFRs dropped from 13-14 with the filters on (at 130/190 jetting), to lean misfire leaner than 16 (my wideband only goes to 16). I didn't figure it was that big of a change, but apparently it is. It's perfectly clear that the idle jets alone do NOT control the cruise AFR in my setup, even though I've read that they should be. I may do some experimenting with larger idle jets and leaner mains after the next shipment arrives.
Good lord I love tinkering with these things! My jet box is growing FAST!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Arg.
So...according to the plugs, I have NO fueling issue on cyl #2, even though there is clearly some sort of vac leak.
It's a carbspiracy...they're out to drive me insane.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Should I swap?


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Do it I want to know if you like it I have a similar manifold I was thinking about using.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Svedka)*

It's a tough call, to be honest...I love my duals, but I'm having a hard time proving the existance of the vacuum leak that I KNOW exists. I've narrowed it down to the left carb, but the darn plugs are all the exact same color after a WOT pull. I'd swap to the single in order to rebuild the duals, I've already rounded up a few of the Mikuni jets I'd need, as well as a larger needle valve (this stuff ain't cheap either!







)...now I just need to find the courage to dismantle a setup that runs perfectly-ish.


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

so do you think you will lose power high end and gain low end. What are you thinking is gonna happen to the power ban after going to a single, i've heard mixed reviews.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Svedka)*

My duals are currently set up with 32mm chokes, and the cam I'm using has a 2500 rpm torque peak, so it's all low end right now anyway







.
I'm not too sure what will happen to be honest, I'd expect a drop in top end, but the way the manifold is designed to take advantage of the firing order seems to point to it being a reasonably efficient performer for all situations. Each barrel of the carb is only in use by one cylinder at a time, with a static period between each event as opposed to the other type of manifold that puts each barrel into use on two cylinders at a time.
In the end, I haven't been able to find any solid info about how it performs because it's a rarely used setup on VWs, and the folks that have them don't seem to know anything about it or have anything to compare it to. I'd love to dyno the duals, then swap, but my slipping clutch might hinder my results







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Got a few more jets in the mail yesterday, so I spent this morning testing and tuning. Here's what I ended up with:
-7772.11 emulsion tubes
-200 airs
-58 idles
-no filters/socks (gave up trying to tune around them, the air was too turbulent, my mixtures were too inconsistent, and the acc pump response was horrible)
-127-128 mains (I say it that way because I'm not exactly sure what they are now. I took a set of 122s and drilled them out to slightly smaller than the 130s I had).
Right now, the fueling at WOT is ~12:1-12.5:1, and my part throttle AFRs are good enough to keep everything safe. I had tried some 125 mains with 170 airs (with the socks on the stacks), which was a bit too lean at WOT (13.5-14.5:1), and way too lean at part throttle (14-15:1). I may order up some 210 & 220 airs to put my WOT fueling exactly where I want it...but for now it's all irrelevant because my clutch slips pretty bad







.


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (Rubberband)*

I didn't see this so i'll just ask.
what size cam? Solid or hydro? any work done?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Hydro cam, "O" grind from a Canadian MkIII Golf CL (1.8, mono-point injection). I like this cam because the torque peak is at 2500 rpm, which makes for quite a nice low-down cruiser car. Low HP setup, for now. No headwork at all, except for fresh valve seals. I've got a stock Digi "G" grind cam (torque peak 3800) and a MkIV 2.0 stick that I may experiment with over time to see the differences.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Blew out the oil plug on the pan last night, luckily was able to cut it down before the oil pressure dropped. Got the car home and decided that was a good excuse to swap the possibly-leaky dual carb setup off and put on the single. Learned two things:
-the Rowland manifold is nice...but requires some grinding to fit. 
-the stock dual downpipe manifold is nice...but requires some grinding to allow the Rowland manifold to fit.
So I ended up working in the garage for a few more hours than I figured I would. Had to remove some of the webbing on the dual outlet manifold (between 2-3) to get the Rowland to fit (loads of fun to do with a hand file while the manifold is on the car), but I made sure it fit before I quit.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Did you take any pictures of your fitment issues?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*

I didn't, but have not mounted it permanently yet. I can snap some on the head/manifold combo that I used for mockup though, and show what I needed to do. The manifold really is good quality, and very beefy, it just happens to foul 26 year old exhaust manifold designs







. If I were using this on a MkII, or with some headers, there would be zero issues. Luckily there was a lot of material to work with, so I haven't weakened it in any way.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Holy crap what a pain in the d**k the install was.
I guess the Lynx version would be a proper bolt-on, vs the Rowland "needs massaging and custom-made bolts". I guess you get what you pay for, and I'm still reasonably happy with the manifold, just a bit frustrated from a night's worth of troubleshooting an install I thought would be cake.
It's on though...


----------



## vwbeaner (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I have been following this thread for a while and I think there is more info here than on the FAQs page, Keep up the good work


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (vw******)*

forgot to add the pic of what I had to do to make it fit against the stock dual downpipe.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Are you running any sort of a heat shield beneath the carb/manifold or just the carb?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Right now just the carb, no heat shield. I didn't have a big problem with my duals and the exhaust heat, and there is a TON more room for airflow back there now with just the single. Did a bit more filing to the exhaust manifold, and remade the special bolt I had to make to bolt this facker up. It fits quite well now







.
Oh yeah...it runs too







.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECQFe0IG57Y
I can't really comment on the throttle response, because I'm running the mixture screws at 7 turns out (starting position is 1 turn out according to the Mikuni manual), so I need WAY bigger idles. Ignoring the slight lean bog, it revs up SUPER fast...almost faster than the duals did. If I can rig up the throttle cable, I'll have a better idea of the jets I'll need, right now here's the specs:
-32 chokes (I love low end grunt, plus...mikuni parts aren't exactly growing on trees anymore. I'll have the spare two 32s machined out to 34s if I have to)
-147.5 mains
-180 airs
-55 pilots/idles
-50 pumps
-1.5 needle (have a 1.8 in case I need to up the fuel flow to the bowls)
-4psi fuel pressure (seems to run well at this, like my dells did)
-7 turns out on the mixture screws


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (vw******)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw******* »_I have been following this thread for a while and I think there is more info here than on the FAQs page, Keep up the good work









I'm glad it's becoming useful to folks out there







. I learned a lot from that FAQ, and just want to share my experiences as a repayment of favor to the forum. I have to say a big thanks to the12for12...I followed most of his posts for years before I jumped into the carb pool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
I've got the 'rush' again...just like with the first startup of the duals, I want to go back to the garage to hear the car run







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Throttle cable done...but I'm not going to put up pics just yet. After spending a few hours fabbing it up to work exactly perfect...I realised that it was kludgey and ugly looking







. Works PHENOMENALLY well, and is simple...but it's hideous and overpowering when you look in the bay. Not really what I wanted. I've got another idea in my head though, just need to round up a few bits and pieces







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Started fabbing up a throttle cable bracket the other day. Ended up with this monstrosity, which worked GREAT but looked like hell. It fouled the hood, and generally overpowered the bay...which wasn't what I was after.








Needless to say, I took that one off today and started to work on a new one. Turns out I didn't have to work too long either. In the box of spare carb parts that I have, I found a ready-made cable bracket! Talk about powers of observation







. The only issue is that my bracket was made to work with the stock MkI-style cable, and the new bracket needed a hybrid cable made out of a spare junk universal cable that was in the parts bin, and a MkII one. I have to order a cable end, but Lokar makes a sweet one, so no biggie







. 
















A buddy who runs dual Mikunis on his racecar has kindly loaned me this box of magic fueling devices to sort out the tuning http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.










_Modified by B4S at 9:49 PM 9-18-2008_


----------



## conejo.01 (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

This is my set up. Chadil manifold. 45´s dellortos´s. Now has a mk4 alternator and polirib belt


----------



## conejo.01 (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (conejo.01)*

40 DCNF on mk1


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

^wow.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I love it!








Keep them coming!


----------



## jaydubr (Apr 4, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i'll play..1.8 16v stroker to 2096cc,LR engineering stage2 head 268/272 blend cams,mk4lifters,s&s valves,eurosport header,2.25exaust,JE 10.5:1 pistons,carrillo rods,electro-motive ign. and oh yeah its in a snatch basket


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Very nice, how does it run? Probably a hoot







.
Cable end, done. Even though the end product is far from a CAD-designed piece. Cut a 1" piece of square bar (more or less), drill a small, cable-sized hole down the top, about half way through (lengthwise). Drill a slightly larger hole in one of the sides for the pinch bolt. Tap that hole (and weld a nut on it, for extra holding force). Flip it over and drill a large-ish hole (didn't measure) for the ball end. Done







.
I have to figure out a way to keep the holder on the ball end, but that's cake.
A crappy Paint drawing...because it's better looking than the real thing







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

^^
Great idea...but didn't work out







. Too many issues, and was a bit too custom for my current requirements. I swapped back to my original too-big bracket that used the OE cable. Works much better







.
So far I'm up to:
-160 mains (a bit too small, gonna try 162.5s)
-180 airs (trying 170s tomorrow, leans out too far at top end)
-60 idles (need to bump to 65-70, the throttle screws are still 3.5 turns out and the transition between cruise and WOT is horrible)
-50 pumps (need at least 60s, but I'm going to try increasing the pump stroke tomorrow and see if it helps at all. It's tough to tune this part until I get the idle jets sized up correctly).
All in all, it's driveable, if a bit richer (14:1) under cruise conditions than the Dellortos. It's faster and louder, which is interesting, because I never figured on the intake noise.


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

ha ha. i was told today mine from a distance sounded like a go-kart.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

what is the air bleed on your 60 idle jet? for example on webers you might have 60f8 with the f8 being the air bleed component of the idle jet


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The mikunis have a fixed idle air, like the emissions Dells I had before. It's 1.4mm in diameter vs. the 2.2mm on the Dells. It is a 4-progression hole carb, and according to the Mikuni manual, one turn out on the mix screws is where I should be-ish. I'm 3-3.5 turns out, so it idles at 13:1 just great, but the minute it needs to get deep into the progression phase it goes off the scale lean until I get the throttle past the ports and unshroud the mains. If I slow down in top gear, to about 1200 rpm, and go WOT it goes 12:1, then off-the-scale-lean, then picks up again around 1500-1700. At least I know the mains aren't coming in late, especially not with 170 airs, lol.
WOT right now is great (12.6:1 - 13.5:1) until around 4500, where it starts to hit 14:1. I am still running a 1.5 needle, but have a 1.8 to install if I think it needs it. I'm reserving judgement on that until I get the transition dialed in. Ultimately, I think with the proper idle jetting, I'll be able to go to a 170 main and 200 air, to get the top end back without relying on the partially shrouded main to provide fuel under cruise conditions.


_Modified by B4S at 12:05 PM 9-21-2008_


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

sounds like next richer on the idle and maybe next richer on your air corrector jet ( top end )


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I re-tested, just for my own anal retentiveness. It's definitely idle jet related, I've confirmed that. I went for a drive and verrrrrrrrrrrrrry slowly tried to accelerate from a stop. As soon as the throttle plate hits the ports, it goes off the scale lean. If I pedal through it, the mains kick in, and VROOM.
I ordered some 65 and 67.5 idles (up from my current 60), and hopefully they'll be in next week so I can get back to tuning the car. It sucks that the local bike shops can't get any richer idles than 60, I had to order from eBay.
Next week, I'll try the richer idles, and play with the airs a bit. I think it's super close to being correct.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Whoot! Got it 95% perfect







.
Bumped the mains up to 167.5, airs to 180, and it's almost bang on.
Only one minor issue. At 5000 in third (long ratio 4 speed), it seems to run out of fuel. I'm using 32mm chokes, and it goes off the scale lean at that point. Think it could be a too-small needle valve? I'm running a 1.8 in it now, with 4psi of fuel pressure. Or is it the chokes maxing out?


_Modified by B4S at 4:30 PM 9-25-2008_


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

if there is nothing left after about 5000, then it would be your chokes.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

It's not that there is nothing left, it's that the car starts to buck like I'm bouncing off the rev limiter, lol. The wideband is off the scale lean while it's happening too. In 1st and 2nd, it revs way up above 5000, but in third it goes nuts at that point. It's definitely load related, just not sure if it is because I'm out of fuel or not.


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_ I'm running a 1.8 in it now, with 4psi of fuel pressure. Or is it the chokes maxing out?


34 chokes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (the12for12)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the12for12* »_
34 chokes http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Found!!
Item # 36
http://www.rmcarburetors.net/M...e.htm 
later


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Went out to do a bit more tinkering, to see if I had made a newb mistake. Turns out I did, although it didn't really fix the problem. I had installed the 1.8 needle, but didn't reset the float level. It was 2-3mm too low, so I fixed that up right away and took it for a spin. It still 'bounced' off an invisible ceiling, but it was 5200 rpm now, and not as violent. It's definitely chokes, since that's a massive change in float level, and surely it would have made some difference in the fueling up top if that had been the issue. It hauls ASS past 6 grand in 2nd gear, if I didn't shift it would be past 7000 in the blink of an eye...but the minute it starts to get some real load, doh







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Made myself a 2.0 needle today, up from the 1.8 that was in it. It made a bit of a difference, but the rest of the testing DEFINITELY pointed to it being a fuel issue. In third, WOT, it would die at 5200-ish, then a shift into 4th had it staying at 3000 and doing the same thing. If I went WOT in fourth from 3000, it EVENTUALLY got to 4000, and started bucking. The chokes are certainly too small for a top end setup in my car, I can feel it flattening out, but the real issue is the needle valve. The biggest that I can get is a 2.0, and my first attempt at a 2.25 failed because the needle itself doesn't seat far enough into the opening due to its design. Looks like before next spring, I'm going to have to swap to one of my Dells 40s(with a 2.25-2.5 needle) and 34-36mm chokes, or get lucky on ebay and find a Dellorto 45 (have too many parts for these carbs to justify swapping to a Weber 45). For now, it drives great, so I'm just gonna leave it alone







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Speedo stopped working today, so while I was playing around in the garage, avoiding pulling the cluster, I started poking at the Dells. The throttle shaft felt great, no wobble, no play, I was stumped until I checked the cold-start choke mechanism. It wasn't closing all the way, and it looked like someone had McGuyvered it when it was rebuilt. It would barely seal at the top of the tubes to feed the cylinders, and the air ports would stay open ever so slightly. This could explain why the mixture screws didn't have as much impact on the running of the car as the ones on the other carb did. I've further McGuyvered it, with some high temp copper gasket goop, since it's only the air ports that are exposed a bit, the fuel ports are further up the bore. Basically just plugged the air intake holes







.
I'm going to get a straight-edge and test the manifold for warpage next....oh yeah, and fix the speedo.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Here's how the last couple weeks have gone...hell of a rollercoaster IMO.
-traded the mikunis away.
-set up a Dellorto as a single.
-ordered jets and larger needle valves.
-swapped out suspected bad fuel pump, swapped in known good one.
-installed new jets and biggest needle possible.
-take car for test drive, end up getting stranded about a km outside of town. Push car half way, get lift to house, tow rabbit home with Saturn. Did I mention this was after the sun went down?
-discover fuel filter was completely clogged, so no fuel was going to carb.
-realise mikuni could have worked, and suspected dead pump wasn't dead at all, feel stupid.
-soldier on with the tuning, get it pretty much bang on.
-feel huge relief, because now I can drive my car again
I'm running a 1.75 needle, and with the clogged filter removed, all trace of high rpm hesitation is gone. I need to get some smaller airs to get it perfect, but right now, it's pretty darn close







.
New jetting:
-34mm chokes
-165 mains
-170 airs
-65 idles (could probably go to 60s to regain the lost mega-fuel economy, since it now cruises at 14:1 instead of 16:1)
-42 pumps (way too small, but not going to order new ones until spring).


_Modified by B4S at 10:20 PM 10-9-2008_


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

why do you insist on the single setup?










_Modified by woodrowstar at 8:48 PM 10-9-2008_


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I think your mains are too big


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Not according to my wideband







.
I'm sure that I could run a smaller main and air, and get even better results. I was originally testing a 180 main and 200 air, with nearly the same results (even a bit leaner), and by going to the 165 main with a 170 air, I've actually gotten richer at WOT below 4500. Ideally I think I need a 160 main with a 160 air to nail it perfectly...but it's also starting to get colder here, so I'll leave it where it is until I can do some warmer weather testing.
As for why the single...well, I guess I just like it







. It's something that there isn't much info about out there, and to be honest the duals were too much for my setup. It's so much quicker with the single, I'd have to go to 30mm chokes or smaller to get the same effect with the duals. Ultimately, I'm running carbs to learn more about tuning, and the single is definitely a learning experience.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Dropped my idles down to 60, with the 165 mains and 170 airs. Now I've regained my fuel economy (according to the wideband anyway), and still have the AFRs I want up top. The flat spot in transition is a bit worse now (obviously), since I need to get way bigger pumps, but the guy I deal with won't have any until spring...and he's half the price of anywhere else.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Might as well add a pic...everyone loves pics







.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

YAY PICTURES!!! (Applaudes wildly







)
Edit: Whats with the dual coil setup? The RedBull can on the firewall... Have you also thought about tapping the 2-3 runner for vacuum to even the manifold out?


_Modified by idrivemyself at 11:42 PM 10-13-2008_


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*










Yes they do







Out blowing some leaves off the roads today. Drove it last week some mornings starting in 3C(36F?) temps was fun










_Modified by impulse byer at 5:51 PM 10-13-2008_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idrivemyself* »_YAY PICTURES!!! (Applaudes wildly







)
Edit: Whats with the dual coil setup? The RedBull can on the firewall... Have you also thought about tapping the 2-3 runner for vacuum to even the manifold out?

_Modified by idrivemyself at 11:42 PM 10-13-2008_

The Jacob's ignition I'm using uses the stock ignition setup to trigger itself. I could have wired it in right off the ICM, but have heard so many things over the years about aftermarket ignitions leaving people stranded that I felt I wanted a backup plan. This way, if the Jacobs stuff kicks it, all I need is a stock coil wire and I'm back up and running







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *impulse byer* »_









Yes they do







Out blowing some leaves off the roads today. Drove it last week some mornings starting in 3C(36F?) temps was fun









_Modified by impulse byer at 5:51 PM 10-13-2008_

Dude, nice shot! Red rocco + red trees =


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

I need Help tunning it noone here knows how im currently running 115 main and 200 air the car is running RICh the spark plugs are BLACK and also the return line is puking gas what can i do about it?
















_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 5:45 AM 10-14-2008_


_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 5:45 AM 10-14-2008_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Rich during cruise, rich during idle or rich during WOT? You're running a return-style regulator I take it?


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i think is running rich all over... lol as far as the return line im not running a return style regulator since im running a carter pump. anyone have a pic of it? maybe i can get one and see ho is installed, thank you


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, first off, post up every jet your carbs are set up with. Mains, idles, airs, pumps, chokes, etc. What do you mean by return line, if you're not running a return line from a regulator, I'm confused. If you're talking about your car being formerly a fuel injected model and you've blanked off the return line, that's ok if it has fuel in it. Also, what is your fuel pressure? How big are the needle valves that allow the fuel into the bowls? Etc etc. The only way we can help isolate your issue is to know all the facts







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

ok the current jets 
115 mains
200 airs
F11 on the middle part
65 idles
32 chokes
the fuel pressure is 4-8 psi (carter 4070)
my GTi was Cis fuel injected when i swapped to Webers i used the main fuel line and the return line is open (i didnt know what to do with it) i have it with a hose attached to a bottle which it filles up by the end of the day..







as far as the needels going into my bowls im not sure what you mean....i was told to cap the return line and drill a whole in my gas cap...which i havnt.... just in case


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Cap the return line for sure, the venting will be taken car of by the lines coming to the charcoal cannister (or where it used to be anyway if you've deleted it). DO NOT drill a hole in the gascap, that's asking for trouble.
Get a fuel pressure regulator, 4-8 psi is too much pressure. The pressure could be overwhelming the needles/floats and flooding the bowls. I'm running 3-4.5psi from a Facet pump, and it's perfect. The needles control how much fuel enters the bowls as the floats drop, if they allow too much in at a time, you could flood the bowls too quickly, same goes for having too much fuel pressure. Have the floats been set to the proper height? this could also be a problem. Best thing to do is to make everything proper, and if you still have a problem, then start troubleshooting. 
To recap:
-fuel pressure regulator, set to 3.5psi
-set float level properly
-find out what the idles are exactly, they'll be named to this format: 65F2, etc. 65 seems WAAAAAAAAAAY big, considering they're probably universal webers and not emissions ones. Sounds like someone was trying to tune away a flat spot and just used a huge idle jet to compensate for something. You'll cruise on the idles, not the mains, so they seem way big. I'm running 60s on my Dellortos, and they are emissions models, which means I have to use huge idle jets. Right now I'm running only one sidedraft carb, and my idles are 62.5s.
-double check to make sure the cold start choke mechanism isn't leaking. this could also be cause of the fuel issues. It's a very crude device. Best to blank it off with some plates and gasket material.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

thank you i will check on that today i took the car to someone this weekend and he estimated me at 400.00 to tune my car... the car runs good but is running rich it starts in the mornings w/o a problem even when its cold.... my only concern is the car being rich the spark plugs are BLACk so that means is rich right...







i got a narow band that i will install this week and maybe try to tune it my self with you guys help which i appreciate it alot thank you


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, if he's an old school carb tuner, it could be worth it. If it just some young guy behind a counter...I'd be wary. Carb tuning is a lost art, and the old school guys are the only ones who I'd even consider paying. Experience counts in this venture, 100%. The knowledge available in this forum is invaluable, especially the FAQ, but a lot of the old guys out there have been tuning carbs for 3-4 decades, if not longer. They'll know whats up. I know a shop that can put out 700whp mitsubishis, and they have their own dyno, but they shake their heads when someone comes in with a carbed car...so be careful what you pay for. You could get a car back that runs worse than it does now, but is leaner than it is currently. It's a fine balancing act to tune these things properly, everything has to overlap, or you get a less-than-acceptible 'overall', but great 'sections'. You could have a great cruising 'section' with a dangerously lean WOT, or even vice versa. Most shops tune for WOT and leave the rest out because they don't have a clue how to set up the mid-range...couple that with something like a carb, and you have a recipe for disaster







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

yes i agree this guy everyone recommended him he specializes in european cars he did tell me he had NEVER seen a 1.8 webered...







and that i was the 1st one he ever seen. im gong to do more reserch and learn more im sure i can get this thing tuned up correctly, besides the GTI is not my DD i have a mk1 cabrio as a DD so i dont have to rush it.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

If he's never seen a dual carbed VW...stay away. Unless he can prove he's tuned OTHER cars on dual carbs, he's useless to you and will rob you of your 400 IMO. Not on purpose, but there is such a thing as biting off more than you can chew







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

thank you i appreciate the help alot i was also wondering about the ignition a friend of mine GAVE ME for free a MSD SCI i dont know if it would work but it was free and free is always good....








this is what i got
http://robearracing.com/pd-msd...l.cfm


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

like before standalone said do not let someone that says they have never seena dual carbed 1.8 or any other watercooled DCOE setup. It's just asking for **** to hit the fan. 
Or maybe he is the new age tuner who bites off more than he can chew


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Hehe, Before Standalone, that's a good one! I like it







.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

start off with a new set of plugs also for tuning. dont try to clean your old plugs


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i did get a new set thanks


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

why you sellin the mani alredy?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Going back to duals







.
Yeah...it's a bit of project Attention Deficit Disorder, can't help myself. If I'm not tinkering with what I have, I'm buying stuff I shouldn't







.
The single ran great, but now I've got the bug for a big cam and 7500 rpms out of the ol' 8v.


----------



## MkIIRoc (Feb 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

A single DCOE will let you spin that high. An 8v counterflow head most likely will not. Even the biggest commonly available solid cam will peak about 1000rpm before that.
But try it! If you don't like it you can always switch back, haha


----------



## Uber E (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (MkIIRoc)*

Completely new to this but heres what I just picked up.








Weber dfev 32/36.
It will eventually make its way to the 1.7 I just dropped out of the 81.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (MkIIRoc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_A single DCOE will let you spin that high. An 8v counterflow head most likely will not. Even the biggest commonly available solid cam will peak about 1000rpm before that.
But try it! If you don't like it you can always switch back, haha









Oh I know, but the single just doesn't sound the same as duals, and we all know sound is the most important part of carbs







.
That being said, um...someone should still buy it from me!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (SilverTREK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverTREK* »_Completely new to this but heres what I just picked up.








Weber dfev 32/36.
It will eventually make its way to the 1.7 I just dropped out of the 81.


Mmmm, Weber DFEV setup, I'd love to try one of those one day. Keep us posted dude!








Swapped back to my duals last night, damn I missed that growl. The single had it too, but it was nowhere near as loud







.


----------



## 76 swallowtail (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

^^^That whats in my 76 now.Great set up to start with.Only had to tune it once in 5 years.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Uber E (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (76 swallowtail)*

Beautiful. Thats exactly what im after with this car. It'll be some time before its running though. The to-do list is long and the wallet's quivering.


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (SilverTREK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverTREK* »_Completely new to this but heres what I just picked up.








Weber dfev 32/36.
It will eventually make its way to the 1.7 I just dropped out of the 81.


A 32/36 Progressive (compared to CIS) will PULL harder and REV quicker in every gear.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
And if you can find a 38/38..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Uber E (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (the12for12)*

I dont even remember what this car was like to drive. Its been SO long. Im anxious. Oh and it was automatic. SLOW was the name of the game.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I've just had the most fun in weeks, and all I did was take my newly-returned-to-dual-carbed Rabbit for a spin to the bank. I live out in the boonies, so it was all open road. I drilled out some spare idle jets to ~62, vs the 58's I was using and the car is a bit snappier, mainly since it doesn't cruise at 16:1 anymore, but closer to 15.5:1 now. I should see if I can find some larger pump jets, or perhaps mess with the pump rod a bit. Might order some 30mm chokes too, to regain the lost low end grunt I had with the single.
In summary: CARBS RULE!


----------



## Uber E (Feb 9, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Awesome. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 88vwFox (Nov 22, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (SilverTREK)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverTREK* »_Completely new to this but heres what I just picked up.








Weber dfev 32/36.
It will eventually make its way to the 1.7 I just dropped out of the 81.



about to be running the same carb on my 1.8l fox motor 9:1 cr but with a 276 cam







it had digi in the last car but the motor is going in a car with cis-e so carb time. i can't wait i just hope the motor doesn't want more carb than i have.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

how do i adjust the floats? i think thats one of my problems


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

http://www.webernorthamerica.c...s.pdf
All you need to know










_Modified by B4S at 5:45 PM 12-10-2008_


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

Thank you .... you the man .... thanks again


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

ok so i get in the mail a NICE set of velocity stacks i install them "bling bling" take the car for a ride and the car rides better the narrow band is not on lean anymore is on stoich in the safe zone when it had the filters it stayed on lean but yet the car was rumming RICH has anyone had this problem before? or any imput?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

Filters really change the way the carbs take in air. Most likely, they were causing a very lean condition at idle, and once they transferred on to the mains, the carbs were tuned to go rich. I never run filters, but since I'm using a counterflow setup, I feel safe doing so. 
How did setting the floats turn out?
I'm willing to bet that those 115 mains were drilled out in the past to something a lot larger, if you're still rich. 


_Modified by B4S at 11:52 AM 10-27-2008_


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i havnt adjusted the floats since gas is not pouring out of them and since the narrow band is on yellow...







as far as the maine i also have a set of 120 and they are bigger than the 115 so i dont think they have been drilled out, maybe i need to go to 110. thanks for all the help also i got a MSD sport compact box and msd coil that was given to me would that make a diffrence once i install it? what should i set the timming as far as degrees to sorry for all the Q's


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

Dude, just because the carbs are not puking gas doesn't mean they're fine. Float height is a VERY important part of carb tuning. If the floats are set even one millimeter too high or too low, it will change the way they react to tuning by a HUGE amount. There are more things to tune on a carb than jets, unfortunately.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

ok i will work on that this weekend since im off thanks


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

SWEET! Lord how I love that sound! Makes me want to go for a drive in my car...except we've got too much snow already







.
Congrats dude! It's gotta be a blast to drive http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

yes it is... it still have a couple of bugs to be worked out but is nice to be able to drive it....


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Hmm, just got back from a long drive...DEFINTELY need to up the mains to 130s with the recent cold weather. Still cruises great though







.
Might be doing a 2.0 bottom end swap....


----------



## WhiteG60 (Aug 20, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Hmm, just got back from a long drive...DEFINTELY need to up the mains to 130s with the recent cold weather. Still cruises great though







.
Might be doing a 2.0 bottom end swap....

If you do a 2.0L swap let me know your setup, so I can use it for a baseline


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

well well so this morning its cold about 48 degrees i go ahead and start the Rabbit and WOW it purs like a kitten better than when its warm outside...lol 1st crank and it started i guess im still running a LIL rich....lol ill be making a video soon hopefully this weekend.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Long time no update...not much to say, except winter sucks







. It's too dangerous to drive the car now because they randomly salt the roads, and I don't want to subject my car to that. I ordered some proper 40mm inner-diameter horns, 60mm in length, to replace my 42mm inner-diameter ones. Not sure how that will affect the tuning, but hopefully it helps smooth out the flatspot I have at part-throttle acceleration. It's not life-threatening, just irritating. Whoever makes velocity stacks is clearly a millionaire by now...those things are PRICEY!







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i got a set of velocity stacks from Ebay and they are CHEAP chrome all i had to do was grind one of the wholes where the screws go in to make it fit nothing big i would saud about 2 mm and they were 40.00 shipped for all 4's i posted a pic of them installed.


















_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 2:32 PM 11-12-2008_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I've got horns already too, but my carbs are 40's, so the inner diameter is too big. The airflow into the aux vent is 'disturbed' by the step between the horn and carb body. It runs fine, but I guess I'm a bit picky, lol







. The final total for the horns, which are one-piece spun aluminum (FASTROADCARS on eBay, great company to deal with http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ), was 175 CAN. My wallet hurts now, but it'll be ok again soon...and my anal-retentive brain can rest easy with the thought of proper-sized horns for my carbs







. If I had 45's, there wouldn't be any issue...but then again, those would be too big for my setup.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Wow, can't say enough good stuff about FastRoadCars on eBay http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. In fact, the UK and Italian shops I've been frequenting over the past year have pretty much blown every single US or Canadian-based retailer out of the water. It's a sad scene when you order something from the UK, and it arrives in a week...through the POSTAL SERVICE. I can't even order something from Toronto and get it that quickly without a courier company and outrageous fees. Certainly can't get anything from over the border that quickly. Every item I've ordered from the UK has shown up in 7 days, shipped Royal Mail...gotta love it







.
Got my new horns, and holy moly they're hot! They're just horns, sure...but they're all one-piece and machined from a block of aluminum. They're 40mm inner diameter too, so no more step. I'd put up pics but we all know what horns look like. I don't think I'll have much in the way of updates over the winter, since my car is put away for the snowy months. I hope this thread doesn't die, it's nice to have a place with details about many different setups, since that was the first thing I looked for when I got my carbs. So all of you guys with carbs, post up your details, so we can all benefit http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
...still debating the 2.0 bottom end swap though, since I'm de-greasing it now...


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

describe exactly what is going on with your part throttle hesitation


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

If I'm cruising at my chosen AFR and give it just enough throttle to get past the progression holes, there is a lean stumble. It's a side effect of the emissions carbs, pretty much. If I run a richer idle jet, then it's minimized a bit...but my fuel economy goes down the tubes. I'm wondering if it's aggravated by the 'step' in the airflow from the overly large inner diameter of the 45mm horns. I can see in my head how a nice smooth airflow could help even out the transition phase somewhat, but if it doesn't...well, at least I'll sleep better







.
The main issue is the huge, fixed idle air, and the 5 large progression holes. The mikuni I used on the single carb setup had 4 smaller holes, and a smaller fixed idle air...and it was less finicky in the progression phase for sure, even on a single-carb setup.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

what rpms does it happen at? if you slowly accelarate does it have hesitation?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

If I accelerate at part throttle, no hesitation, but I usually cruise at a much lower throttle position. I've thought of turning up the acc pump acceleration, but I'd have to take the carbs off to do that...ugh. RPM-wise, I'd say roughly 2500.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

what are your af #s when cruising along at 2500, especially when you are on a slight incline- not decellerating because your #s are always leaner at that point


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Under cruise at that RPM, I'm at the 14.5-15:1 mark. It stays similar when going up a slight grade, unless I open the throttle quite a ways. Did a long drive today, had to swap to the 130 mains for the colder temps, but outside of that...it was awesome







.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

even though it seems to run ok, that is lean for sidedrafts. i would keep your #s between 12.5 and 14.5. they really run better rich, especially at idle, say about 12.5 and when you are on the freeway at 55 and maybe 3000 rpm, amaximum of 14.5. with your #s bouncing around in that range, if when you accelerate somewhat quickly and you still have a stumble it is telling you that the accelerator pump jet and maybe accelerator pump bleed jet is lean. on webers if you had an.050 accelerator pump jet, go to a .055 or an .060. i know you have dells but they are similar. if you dont have hesitation when you press the pedal but it happens when you slowly accelerate and hit 2500 you are still lean and then you could try turning out your mixture screws like 1/4 turn more to slightly richen it. if that doesnt work i would put the nexr richer idle air bleed in


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

They're emissions Dells though, they're designed to run very lean at cruise and idle, to help with the tightening emissions laws in the 70s and early 80s. I idle at 12.5-13:1, with three and a half turns out, but still cruise super lean due to the 5 huge progression holes. For me to cruise at lower than 14.5 I'd have to run 80s as idles, and barely a full turn out. My idle airs are fixed at 2.2mm







. My pumps are only 42s though, I've thought about going to a 50 and seeing what happens, but for now the car is parked for the winter. 
I tend to drive more at part throttle than anything else, so I think a set of larger pump jets, set to activate very early in the throttle stroke.


----------



## sw5 (Mar 22, 2006)

You could fabricate inserts into these 2,2 fixed air jets, Pat Braden suggests it in his book (http://www.amazon.com/...6750).


_Modified by sw5 at 9:11 PM 11-23-2008_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The Des Hammill book I have says the same thing, but ultimately if I want to minimize the flatspot I just have to up the idles a bit. I like the way it is now for cruising economy, and if I ever want to track the car I'll just throw in my larger ones. I can't justify cruising at 13:1 just to make the transition smoother when I rarely push the car very hard. I might try out some smaller airs next year, even though I remember them it far too rich up top that way.
I've also got an idea for a single sidedraft conversion on a stock VW carb manifold...muahahahaha







.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I had the thing with my car. If i was cruising on the hwy and just rolled into the gas a little bit there was a flat spot. If i punched it there was nothing but go. I played with my e-tubes if i had my notes with me i could tell you what numbers.
I hope this week to have a thread for my new set up. But moving may slow that but we will see


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

i have carb woes.... u don't see me crying. man up, ya pansy. 

-jk- lol


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*









It's more talking out loud to help myself sort the info into a nice pile.
It's winter anyway...no carbs for me until March







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I have a disease...
Going to run Megasquirt in place of the CIS-E ignition, so I can map out a proper curve for my setup...as well as datalog everything







.
Now I just have to figure out a good way of mounting the TPS...


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Stop.


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: (woodrowstar)*

WTF


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I have a disease...
Going to run Megasquirt in place of the CIS-E ignition, so I can map out a proper curve for my setup...as well as datalog everything







.
Now I just have to figure out a good way of mounting the TPS...

Very cool







but can i ask how modded is the motor?


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *impulse byer* »_
Very cool







but can i ask how modded is the motor?


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (woodrowstar)*

pretty sure it's all stock with a MK3 cam just like a 268








not sure thow


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Boooooooooooooooone stock, with a MkIII 1.8 CL cam (canadian and europe only).
I know I don't need to ditch the CIS-E stuff, realistically, but I've always felt my ignition setup left something to be desired. You can really tune the torque curve by playing with the timing, so when I eventually upgrade my exhaust/manifold setup and go to a bigger cam, I am not going to be limited to the stock ignition setup...nor crippled by the generic curve generated by an MSD box (which is three times the price).
A lot of the guys in the UK run mappable ignitions on their carbed cars with great success (www.retro-rides.org, wicked forum), and I guess I got the bug from them







.


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

oh now i understand. i use it too. i thought you ment you were putting CIS back on the car in full.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Gah!
No way anything with more than 5psi of fuel pressure is EVER going back in this car. I'm mesmerized every time it fires up and runs...without injectors. I may play with different carbs and configurations...but that's as far as it goes







.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

It just seemed like a lot of fussing around for stock...not to say i wouldn't if thats what i had. I remember messing with my Volvo(SU carb







) to get all it would give http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Nothing like some Home Depot motorsports. Found a 1/4NPT male to 3/8 NPT female adapter in the air compressor section. I drilled it out a bit, so that there was some space around the tip of the GM coolant temp sensor. Wether there is enough space remains to be seen...but I figure it'll work reasonably well since I'm only going to be using it for datalogging purposes. I could technically run without it, if I have to. The IAT will be mounted in the raintray, facing downwards towards the carb horns, which will probably be a good estimate of the temps going in. The TPS will be mounted off the pivot bar I use for my linkage, and not the carbs themselves. I'd run MAP with 4 vacuum lines into a mini-manifold...but I'd like to try alpha-n.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

well i know its been a while since i posted on here but after installing the carbs the car runs ok not perfect good but ok the other morning it was 27 'F it was COLD, snow and ice on the car i got in it and the car started with no problems now i didnt have far rto drive so it was ok the problem im running into is on long distances once the car goes over 65 it feels as the car is running lean and going up hill is even worse....







also when i park the car i see the carb far to the right is leaking onto the header it drops about 10 drops then stops. i put a plate under so it doesnt directly fall unto the header but still scares me.... any help will be helpful thank you'


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Where does it leak from? The floats might be set too high, and the fuel is dribbling out of the mains, or it could be draining out of the accelerator pump jets. In the cold it's going to have to be jetted a bit richer in order to maintain the same AFR as the warm-weather tuning. I had to go up to 130s from my 128s before I put my car away, and if I had planned on running it over the winter, I probably would have had to swap to 135s or so. Do you have a wideband? It might be leaning out somewhat, or it could just be a symptom of something else.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

hmmmm i have a narrow band as far as the floats how do i adjust them also could it be im running my car w/o a FPR? all im running is on a carter pump.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *"B4S"* »_http://www.webernorthamerica.c...s.pdf
All you need to know









I think I posted this on page 7







.
As far as the carter pump...do you have a gauge? If you're running more than 3-4 psi, you could be overwhelming the needle valves, which would cause them to overflow like that.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

cool thank you i went ahead and printed that hopefully i can fix the leaking problem i fonr want it to burst out in flames.....


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

well guys i spoke to thomas and he helpped me alot the only thing now is to order some air correction im currently running 200 and i need something like 170 anyone else making plans to carb their car?... lets see some pics....


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, I've got an 85 golf that I'm tempted to carb with some spare bits I have kicking around. I've got pretty much a full Weber DFEV kit ready to go, and a desire to learn how to set it up







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

is not easy but it sure sounds and looks gooddd.....lol


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

Holley-Weber DFEV/2210 conversion kit on the way, whoot!








I'm on the Atkins Diet...all carbs babeeeeeeee!


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Holley-Weber DFEV/2210 conversion kit on the way, whoot!








I'm on the Atkins Diet...all carbs babeeeeeeee!

keep us updated post pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

Could be a long time coming...I don't currently have an insulated garage







. I don't think I want to remove the sidedrafts from my current setup, but I've been considering cleaning up the OG 1.7 from my previous Mk1 project (RIP) and running it on a stand in the garage. Wouldn't be too hard to do, and I've got all the parts I need...heh







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

ok so i was messing around with the carbs and i noticed that no matter what i did i would not get the idle down so i took the webers off and noticed that (anti-vibration) spacers one was cracked the POS cracked on me can the webers be installed w/o the anti-vibration spacers?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

Lots of guys run with just a gasket made out of rubber, instead of the anti-vibration stuff. I'm running with a solid mount, with no real issues at all. If there is a lot of aeration of the fuel (as in, solid engine mounts, bumpy road, etc), then it'll go pig rich, but it hasn't happened to me yet.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

cool thank you that means ill be driving the Rabbit to work all week......







thank you what do you mean rubber gasket


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, if by vibration dampeners you mean the stuff between the carbs and manifold, then you should replace them with some sort of gasket. Usually it's easy to make out of rubber.


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

would delrin or poly be too stiff?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

As long as they're fuel resistant, then it couldn't be any stiffer than metal to metal







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i got a set from "weber" redline and they only lasted 2 months and they were 60.00$







im going to experiment and see what i can fabricate...... ill post some pics


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

hey i just use thermostat o rings. works fine for me.
pic for more clicks: 










_Modified by woodrowstar at 5:57 AM 12-31-2008_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (woodrowstar)*

Thermostat O-rings, wicked idea!


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

where did you get those TS O rings from? what do they go to? please do share....


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

i'll give ya hint..... 1.6


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (woodrowstar)*

most autoparts stores have orings in many sizes but the soft mount setup, whether misab plates with o rings or plastic with the same, have been used for about 50 years , so you must be doing something wrong


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (candm)*

i dont know what would i be doing wrong but its not working...


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

what seems to work for me are the plastic soft mounts with orings and the thackery spring washers. the first time i installed my carbs i used the metal misab ones with the bonded orings and had leaks- im sure in retrospect it was my own fault but i decided to try the plastic ones, they give a measuremenr, like .035" / that you tighten the spring washers down to but on my 16 valve and really any 8 valve, whether cross or counterflow, its hard to see the mounting bolts underneath, let alone tell if you have them tight enough. what i do is use nyloc nuts with the thackery spring washers, tighten all by hand first, then turn all with a wrenck or socket about 1 turn and go to the next. then once they just begin to get tight, but not torqued, then back them all out 3/4-1 turn each. i have done this numerous times with no leaks. also i use new orings any time i remove the carbs. thats it


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Good tips! I've got a set of MISABs that caused me pain in the past, now I'm on some cast aluminum spacers with O-Rings. Solid bolted, no dampeners.
A new addition to my addiction arrived today...a vintage Holley 5200 conversion kit for the early Mk1s







. Best 15$ I ever spent on eBay, it's fully tidied up and ready to go once I get a rebuild kit for it. The jetting seems pretty close from what I can tell (considering it was set up for a 1.6 I think): 
Primary fuel jet: 140
Primary air corrector: 195
Primary emulsion tube: 16
Primary Idle jet: 70
Secondary fuel jet: 132
Secondary air corrector: 175
Secondary Emulsion tube: 05
Secondary Idle jet: 50
If decide to give it a go on my car, I think I can mix and match the jets to get the basic tune done, and since the Holley 5200 is a clone of the Weber DFEV (even says "Licensed by Weber of Italy" at the bottom of the fuel bowl) I can find jets pretty easily.


_Modified by B4S at 10:42 PM 1-2-2009_


----------



## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

better get some body armor and a blow-up doll...
The wife is either going to kill you or cut you off!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I distracted her with talk of buying an 86 GTI







.
Got my MkIII Golf CL manifold all drilled and tapped for the adapter plate (one of these days I'm going to get a plate of aluminum and make a proper one to the CL bolt pattern, but for now this will do).


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

MkIII CL intake manifolds are finally useful







.
































I had to drill and tap the manifold for the old-school Weber 2BBL carb adapter, but only on three of the four holes. Anyone out there be interested in a CL-to-Weber adapter plate? These 1.8 monomotronic engines are a dime a dozen up here...manifolds grow on trees!


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

*FV-QR*

I'm having a hard time following what is happening. why the change again?


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (woodrowstar)*


_Quote, originally posted by *woodrowstar* »_I'm having a hard time following what is happening. why the change again? 

He must be one of those sick people that gets off on being utterly frustrated.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The sidedrafts are staying on the Rabbit, no worries. This setup is for the 85 Golf I have sitting in the driveway, waiting for a spring revival







.
I did think about switching though...but I'm too happy with my Dells to go through with it.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

nice going my rabbit is running a little better since i tighten up the soft rings i will work on it later its been raining here for the past 5 days contantly so i havnt had a chance to work on the car.....


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

i'll probably be adding my own frustration to this forum soon, so i thought i'd say hi. the new toy is an '81 jetta that the previous owner swapped a 1.8l 16v gli into. i'm building it up a little and it will be getting the dual weber treatment soon.... but this will be my first time in the world of carbs. luckily i'll have some experienced help for the setup day, but i'll be very surprised if i don't have a bunch of questions for everyone here! so thank you for all the info i've absorbed from lurking, i look forward to joining carb-land!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Cool man, welcome aboard! 
Seriously, they're frustrating as all heck at first, but once you're over the initial hump...it's smooth sailing...sorta







.
Seriously though, the sound makes it worth it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

yeah and someday you'll have your own 9 page thread of


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (wantacad)*

Hey, it's 10 pages now







.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

...and i'll start with the questions..... wait for it.... now:








it looks like most of you are running an electronic ignition system. with my car i'm going for as simple and as aesthetically pleasing a setup as possible, which means keeping electrical to a minimum. the a/c and power steering are removed. so for my ignition i should just need power to the ignition coil -> distributor, and to the starter, correct? and what is meant by "locking out" the distributor?
sorry, this would probably be more obvious if i had the car in front of me, but it's stored/worked on 1.5 hours away so i have to plan everything out and think it all through ahead of time. i only get to the car one day every other week








edit because i did more reading








i'm really getting the impression that i need to run an electronic system to get the most out of my setup....the msd-6a has been recommended multiple times. does this eliminate the distributor altogether? or work in conjunction with it? is there another way i can increase my spark without going this route?



_Modified by notajetta at 10:45 AM 1-22-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

I'm running the stock CIS-E ignition system, amplified by a Jacobs setup. It ran pretty well on the stock stuff alone, but the jacobs ignition pack I'm running turned the happiness up a notch, seriously. You have two choices, retain the original vacuum-advance distributor and run it without the vac signal, and the original ignition system behind it, or upgrade to something else that uses the Digi-1/2/CIS-E distributor. If you're looking for aesthetics, and not really concerned about economy, go with the un-amplified stock vac advance setup. Minimal wiring, no fuss no muss. The electronic ignition upgrade is the best idea for a carbed car though, it really brings it to another level, and can be done very cleanly. My jacobs stuff is in the raintray, so you'd never know it's there. MSD is the most-used name in the game, but it's not the only option. Mallory, Crane, Jacobs, etc, all work fine and do the same thing, ultimately.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

awesome, thanks! i guess it will (like most things) depend a bit on my financing levels over the next few months. one more question from the new guy







what is the "dizzy" that is constantly referred to? .. and why do i have a feeling that it's more obvious than i think?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

It's the short form of distributor







.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

yeah.... should have seen that coming


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

question regarding radiators:
it looks like people offset the original radiator more to the drivers side to make more room... but i've been told that you can use a narrower radiator that sits on the drivers side and leaves a nice open space in front of the carbs... has anyone seen a setup like this? it might be a honda radiator that's used....


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_question regarding radiators:
it looks like people offset the original radiator more to the drivers side to make more room... but i've been told that you can use a narrower radiator that sits on the drivers side and leaves a nice open space in front of the carbs... has anyone seen a setup like this? it might be a *honda radiator* that's used....

You pretty much awnsered your own question


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (wantacad)*


_Quote, originally posted by *wantacad* »_
You pretty much awnsered your own question

i didn't have any affirmation that a honda radiator was correct, so actually, you just did







thanks! is there any certain model of honda that i should be sourcing the radiator out of?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

I'm not 100% sure, but I've done some online shopping with radiator places that include pictures and dimensions before. It's going to be the 80-90 civic vintage for sure though, perhaps CRX.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

you can get a 88-90 civic aluminum radiator for 75.00 NIB from ebay.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

New toys, thanks candm!
























Yeah yeah, the thread is kinda played out, I know. Maybe I'll let it die...


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

ooooooooooooh shiney bits..... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
Yeah yeah, the thread is kinda played out, I know. Maybe I'll let it die...

noooooooo! i just need to file my taxes and i'll be ordering my carbs soon. don't leave me, you're my only hope!


----------



## vwbeaner (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

B4S, I will be very unhappy if you let this thread die. I look forward to reading it every day. If my digi 2 harness ever dies I am going to carbs. I almost want it to die just so I can join the fun. I just can't afford the parts right now.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (vw******)*

Well, thanks for the compliments guys. I'll try to keep it running as long as I can, but eventually I'm going to run out of setups to try







. The 45s aren't going on my current motor, since it's too stock for such big carbs. I want to provide concrete information, and it's getting harder since I've begun narrowing down my setup. Threads with minute, pointless updates are no fun







.


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Well considering this forum is being over run with MS questions (hell I even tried to get them thier own forum) maybe us running carbs should just hang out in here....


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (wantacad)*

for my 1.8l 16v engine i need to lower the mounting location of the alternator so that the intake manifold will clear it... there are some custom mounting brackets available ($$), but i've been told the alternator setup from a 1980 diesel rabbit can be swapped in (per *candm* )... anyone have any experience with this setup or other suggestions?
edit: i just looked at my own sig and wished i still had my rabbit







(thanks for totalling it dad!







)


_Modified by notajetta at 2:44 PM 2-4-2009_


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

actually a non ac setup from any early diesel rabbit, jetta, pickup, scirocco. you need the bracket that bolts to the block and then there ia a piece of flat bar about3/16" thick , maybe 4-5" long, that is slotted and has a slight bend in it. these are both vw parts


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

I've used the diesel rabbit bracket before too, it's better than the ABF stuff, mainly because it's an eighth of the price







.
Did some boredom grinding last night, mainly to get the fit of the Rowland single sidedraft manifold just perfect. There is one runner that needs clearancing in order to get a bolt in and out easily. The Lynx manifold has a nice indent cast into it to allow for this, but the Rowland does not. I didn't think the casting was thick enough to get away with it, but it apparently is. Maybe I'll try out one of the nice DCOE 45s on it, seeing as how the emissions-based Dell I used didn't like it at all. It's almost spring and the carb-based A.D.D is starting to set in







.


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

hmmmmm Looks like I need to be on the look out for diesel alt mounts now.









See B4S this thread is still useful.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (wantacad)*

Alright, it's earned a stay of execution







.
The best part about the early Rabbit diesel alt brackets is that they are pressed steel, so they can easily be cut and welded, or fixed if need be. The bad part is that they bend easily if you're not careful. Makes finding the proper sized v-belt easy too, just get one for a diesel application.


----------



## isnowi (May 27, 2007)

*Re: The all carb diet. (B4S)*

Hi all, my '84 polo.
stock 1300cc, with electronic ignition from a SEAT ibiza, GSXR 750 carbs.
















http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zdBdQNt4dA 
Cheers, Dan


_Modified by isnowi at 12:49 AM 2-6-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Nice! I may have a 1300 engine coming in the spring for my MkI...this gives me ideas. How do you like them?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Braved the cold garage today, got my TPS mount fabbed up...then the linkage broke







. Re-welded that, then decided to fire it up (mainly out of desperation for spring). First try was aborted due to huge vacuum leak (had to move the brake booster line out of the way to do the welding, forgot to put it back), but second try was successful. I had almost forgotten how awesome my dells sound







.


----------



## isnowi (May 27, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I'm trying to track down some different carbs as the Slingshot carbs (and all mikuni CV's of that age) have a tendency to wear the needle jets and slides very easily, the result of this is that i cannot get a consistent idle. On throttle is sweet , pulls like a cartload of schoolboys all the up to and beyond redine. I was running bog std motor ,but currently have the head of for a bit of a fettle, will port match manifolds, make up a new header, and just a few maintenance items.
I'm half pie tempted to source new needle jets and jet needles, and try to repair the slides on these carbs, but am finding it nearly impossible to find anything that is not OEM suzuki parts, which in themselves are not excessively expensive, but the freight cost to New Zealand is twice as much again on top of the parts








I'll post some new vids up of it running when the head goes back on, the carbs have been tuned since the first vid so are running better than that.
Cheers, Dan


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Quick pic of my TPS mount.
-yes, I know it's welded to the valve cover.
-yes, I know the weld is hideous, I blame a great many things, including my rusty-ness at welding. It took me a few tries to get the penetration I wanted...by then, it was a nasty glob.
-yes, I know that the valve cover could be interesting to remove.
-yes, I am going to paint it, just have no black paint, and it's too cold right now anyway.
-yes, I am considering making it a two piece bracket, so I can unbolt it from the valve cover...figured that one out AFTER I finished







.










_Modified by B4S at 7:01 PM 2-7-2009_


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Well hell when you point out all the flaws how are we suppose to reply?


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

help me out B4S. what are you doing with a throttle position sensor on a carb setup? if i dont get a good answer, the next shipment will







instead if carbs!


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

help me out B4S. what are you doing with a throttle position sensor on a carb setup? if i dont get a good answer, the next shipment will







instead of webers!


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

help me out B4S. what are you doing with a throttle position sensor on a carb setup? if i dont get a good answer, the next shipment will be







instead of webers!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, I'm going to run an aftermarket ignition, and the TPS is to tell the ECU what the throttle position is so that I can vary the timing based on that position. That gives the same sort of thing as a vacuum advance, so I can retain fuel economy under cruise, and at WOT conditions I can dial in throttle retard if it needs it. All of this based on throttle position, or manifold pressures (if I wanted it), but the TPS will also help retain a proper idle if I ever decide to go big on the cam http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

ok. i,ll be prayin for ya


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'll need all the help I can get







.


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i never like to see a man on his knees when working on a car....!








Soooo, i assume your set up will include a crank trigger? did you modify one that is available or did you build your own? got pics?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VenaGTi)*

No crank trigger, all distributor-based.
I've had to decide which is more important, ignition or new tires for the summer...so right now the MS setup is for sale locally. If it doesn't sell, then I'll continue down the path of MS-controlled ignition. If it does...then sweet rubber for me







.
Luckily I've got about eight valve covers, so no worries about the one I welded to







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Yeah, to hell with tires







.
MS is going in. I'll find some other stuff to sell before spring to get my tires.
I should be starting the install in a couple weeks, it's getting warmer up here, and I just need a few good hours to get the wiring started.


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

OK, I'll bite........
how does your dizzy know where the crank is?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Um, up until 93, stock VW ignition systems didn't have a crank trigger either. I'm using the stock hall sender, and when the hall sends the pulse to the ICM it energizes the coil. Since the dizzy turns at 1/2 crank speed, everything sorts itself out and fires when it needs to as long as it's lined up properly. It doesn't need to 'know' anything, like a crank-triggered ECU, it just fires when it fires, and the rest had better line up properly







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Well, just in case anyone is wondering why I'm doing the TPS addition, here's a little bit of info off of the Sideways-Technologies forum: http://www.sideways-technologi...2199/
It's to convert a 2D ignition map to a 3D one, so you're not limited to mapping the ignition vs. RPM only. The TPS adds throttle position into the mix, or I could do it vs. MAP, but the TPS mapping makes it easier to tune with big cams that pull very little vacuum at idle.
Here's the parent forum:
http://www.sideways-technologi...-IF1/
They LOVE megajolt, so the info is very relevent to carbs







.
Also, the Megajolt forums are pretty sweet too:
http://www.autosportlabs.org/index.php



_Modified by B4S at 11:59 AM 2-16-2009_


----------



## conejo.01 (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Updated picture of my set up dhla 45 dellortos, aeg poli rib belt custom alternator set up, custom made radiator, anodized parts.








1977 golf mk1


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (conejo.01)*

i'd love to see a bigger version of that pic and of the custom alternator mount http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## devils-design (Nov 23, 2005)

Well. I just spent all morning reading this thread.. And I must say there is a lot of info on here. 
Now I feel stupid because I just realized B4S is Chad from OVD. 
My question is, can carbs be used on a daily in are great Canadian/Quebec weather? That means Hot summer and some pretty cold winters. I'm thinking yes but I'm looking for someone to confirm this. 

And just in case you don't know who I am, B4S, I'm the one rebuilding the 86 GTI on OVD. ( which now has a painted engine bay







no pics srry) 

_Modified by devils-design at 11:16 AM 2-21-2009_


_Modified by devils-design at 11:16 AM 2-21-2009_


----------



## conejo.01 (Sep 19, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*









I couldn't use the alt in the same location because it did not fit with the chadil manifold. I have to modify it again to use the original oil cooler.
i will post better pictures later.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (conejo.01)*


_Quote, originally posted by *conejo.01* »_








I couldn't use the alt in the same location because it did not fit with the chadil manifold. I have to modify it again to use the original oil cooler.
i will post better pictures later.

yeah, it seems you always have to mount the alternator lower for manifold clearance. i'm looking forward to the pics! thanks! 
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

So I just bought a rabbit that someone had started to make into a carb project with a 9a 16v. I think i'm going to continue with this and try to finish this project. Only thing is that I am not familiar at all with carbs and would like to start learning. I've read the entire Carb FAQ and this entire thread and have learned alot already, but I am looking for a book to buy to help me learn more. While searching Amazon these four books popped up. I was just seeing if any of you have read any of these or know which one might be best. Thanks for the advice.
Here is the link for the books.. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb...er+ca


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

i'm into my first carb project as well, and i picked up the speedpro book and i am pretty happy with it. i just ordered my carb setup today actually, so we'll see how well the books jetting recommendations match up to my setup (the book doesn't offer anything specific in setups for our cars, but it explains a bit of how to calculate an approximate starting point).
best of luck to both of us! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The book is good, but keep in mind that it bases all it's jetting info on oldschool tuning methods (no wideband), so it's going to be a bit rich at times. It could be pretty close though. It's at least a great starting point, and you'll be able to get the car started, and driving http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (devils-design)*


_Quote, originally posted by *devils-design* »_Well. I just spent all morning reading this thread.. And I must say there is a lot of info on here. 
Now I feel stupid because I just realized B4S is Chad from OVD. 
My question is, can carbs be used on a daily in are great Canadian/Quebec weather? That means Hot summer and some pretty cold winters. I'm thinking yes but I'm looking for someone to confirm this. 

And just in case you don't know who I am, B4S, I'm the one rebuilding the 86 GTI on OVD. ( which now has a painted engine bay







no pics srry) 

_Modified by devils-design at 11:16 AM 2-21-2009_

_Modified by devils-design at 11:16 AM 2-21-2009_

Dude, I just saw this, lol. Sorry for the late reply!
Carbs can definitely be used on a daily, with a bit of prep work. You need to jet a bit richer in the winter, to compensate for the cold temps, and then you jet a bit leaner in the summer. A manual choke is nice, but not necessary. I was able to start my car up whenever I wanted, although it was in an uninsulated garage, so it was always a couple degrees warmer than outside. Rememer, carbs were on every car in North America until the late 70's, early 80's, so winter isn't an issue if you're ready for it







.
Oh, and put up some pics of the bay on OVD, I keep checking for updates







.
I'm building a new carb manifold this weekend...for a single sidedraft on a counterflow head. Should be interesting if it works







.


_Modified by B4S at 9:00 AM 3-6-2009_


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: (B4S)*

stupid search is _not_ working for me today... anyone else having trouble?
anyways, if i'm replacing my ignition coil, anyone have any suggestions? is there a preferred aftermarket unit that will give me more spark than the oem unit?
i'm planning on running the setup without any electronics (msd, etc) for now, just for simplicity, but i will be building it up in the future...
thanks in advance!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (notajetta)*

One of the OE coils is supposedly a hotter one, but they all work just as well. I was using a stock Rabbit one originally, car started and ran fine. When I added in a Jacobs ProStreet ignition setup it changed the way the car ran by a LOT...and it originally ran pretty sweet. Carb setups love a super hot spark, because the fuel is just naturally not as well atomized as it would be in an EFI setup (that's my theory anyway). I went from idling at 13:1 to idling at 15:1 without stumbling! Made a huge change in my cruise-to-WOT throttle response too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: (B4S)*

after looking at the prices ($60+) for oem ignition coils, i might just try an msd blaster coil... if i'm going with an msd system later anyways it would make sense...
but the biggest selling point is that it's only $36 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thoughts?
i'm looking at the coil on the jegs website and they also sell the blaster 2 coil with a "resistor, terminal, and boot".... what would the resistor be for?
http://www.jegs.com/i/MSD/121/8203/10002/-1



_Modified by notajetta at 12:02 PM 3-6-2009_


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_i'm into my first carb project as well, and i picked up the speedpro book and i am pretty happy with it. i just ordered my carb setup today actually, so we'll see how well the books jetting recommendations match up to my setup (the book doesn't offer anything specific in setups for our cars, but it explains a bit of how to calculate an approximate starting point).
best of luck to both of us! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Thats the book that I was probably going to get. I think I saw it on the actual Weber site or one of the sites I was looking at with all of the parts for the carbs. What carb setup did you end up ordering. The rabbit I bought came with Weber 40 DCOE's.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_The book is good, but keep in mind that it bases all it's jetting info on oldschool tuning methods (no wideband), so it's going to be a bit rich at times. It could be pretty close though. It's at least a great starting point, and you'll be able to get the car started, and driving http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.

Thanks for the advice. I'm basically just looking for a starting point so I can understand how everything works in the carbs and then from there start fine tuning after I get everything running.
For mounting the carbs do you guys just mount them directly to the head? I think i've read that some people use the MISAB gaskets and thackery washers which I was checking out on one of the sites I found and some people just mount them to the head, and some people use a manifold/spacer kind of deal. What do you guys recommend?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

the standard setup for my 1.8l 16v seems to be the dual wber 40 dcoe's, so that's what i went with. i ordered a whole kit from carbs unlimited http://www.carburetion.com/ that comes with the manifold and pretty much everything you need to get started (minus air filters)... though i'm thinking the linkage might need upgrading and we'll see how their jetting comes out...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubyaVR6* »_
For mounting the carbs do you guys just mount them directly to the head? I think i've read that some people use the MISAB gaskets and thackery washers which I was checking out on one of the sites I found and some people just mount them to the head, and some people use a manifold/spacer kind of deal. What do you guys recommend?

The MISAB gaskets are recommended, as are the proper washers. That being said, I'm using MISABs and regular nuts/washers. Under harsh bumps, the fuel could aerate in the bowls and you could end up going super rich...but it's pretty difficult to make that happen.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, today is almost a write-off, some mutherfuquing pisshole broke in to my garage and stole a bunch of my tools http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif. The stupid thing is that they walked off with the cheap stuff and left my welder and toolbox, which were both on wheels. I live in a town of 200 people, and this happens. I lived in the ****tiest part of Ottawa (the nearest city, canada's capital) for 6-7 years and NEVER got robbed of anything. My GF would get propositioned by guys looking for hookers, people would try to sell drugs to me on the street in front of my house, but I could leave my car unlocked.
Today isn't getting off to a good start.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

that really,really sucks http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

damn. x2. with it being a small town is there a decent chance that the person could be caught?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

anyone here have any experience with the pertronix ignitor or ignitor 2 systems? more specifically with a 16v engine?
i was just going to run a points setup for simplicity until i upgrade later on, but the pertronix systems are cheap enough that i'd consider going with them right away... if they'll work....
(*search* didn't really help me, all the threads are non-carb and everyone just seems to get diverted to using an oem ignition)
thanks!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, first you'd need to find a points dizzy that would fit the 16v head. That might be the thoughest part.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

yeah, i did some more research too and for expandability/control it makes sense to just go to an msd system. 
the msd 6a or 6al seem popular, but has anyone used msd's "universal timing control"? (PN 8782) it's a little cheaper and has their dash mount knob for timing adjustment. it seems pretty slick!


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Well, today is almost a write-off, some mutherfuquing pisshole broke in to my garage and stole a bunch of my tools http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif. The stupid thing is that they walked off with the cheap stuff and left my welder and toolbox, which were both on wheels. I live in a town of 200 people, and this happens. I lived in the ****tiest part of Ottawa (the nearest city, canada's capital) for 6-7 years and NEVER got robbed of anything. My GF would get propositioned by guys looking for hookers, people would try to sell drugs to me on the street in front of my house, but I could leave my car unlocked.
Today isn't getting off to a good start.

Damn man. That sucks... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
On a good note. I finally got the bunny down to my apartment and into my so called garage with 1 flurescent light and 1 electrical outlet...








Here are a few pics.. 
The Bunny








The 9a








Some Goodies..


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

Dude, nice! I can't tell you how much you're going to enjoy the carbs http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. Keep posting updates, please







.
Thanks for the kind words everyone, I'm kinda over the whole 'rage' of the break-in, mainly because I got to drive my car yesterday. I pulled it out of the garage, swapped the other two wheels on (could only do two in the garage, no space), torqued everything down and went for a short cruise. I'm now very 'zen', it was exactly the therapy I needed. Hearing those trumpets gulping back the air did wonders for my mood







.
Of course, now it's snowing sideways







.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Dude, nice! I can't tell you how much you're going to enjoy the carbs http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. Keep posting updates, please







.
Of course, now it's snowing sideways







.

I'll definitly keep posting some updates. I think the hardest part is going to be putting everything back in the car dash/trim wise since I've never had a Rabbit and I didn't take it apart and I have no idea what bolts go where and if I even have them..








Damn Canadian winters.. its in the 60s down here right now..


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Boooooooo for warm places!








It's getting better here, so I've been doing a bit of work on the new manifold I want to try out. I've tentatively sold the Rowland manifold I have for sale, but have a cool idea for running a single sidedraft that I want to try out. Since I've got a spare set of DCOE45s now (thanks again Don http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ), I might as well give it a shot, seeing as it's only costing me the price of a bit of steel and a few feet of welding wire. I'm halfway through it now, just need some discs for my grinder...since my sawzall went missing







.


_Modified by B4S at 12:01 PM 3-11-2009_


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Sorry for your feelings of violation. Shouldn't be too hard to track down the person selling your things, can't be too many pawn shops in the area.
Well, I finally got my carbs, and have NO idea where to start. I have no linkage, a vague idea of how these things work, and no manifold. Should be awesome.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The journey is half the fun.
Looks like it's going to be a warm, sunny weekend up here (above freezing!), I'll be taking my Rabbit for a long cruise I think







.
The quick and dirty summary: 
-main jets operate from 30% throttle to WOT
-idle jets operate from idle to about 1/4 throttle (depending on the amount of progression holes in the carb, but that's a different story)
-main and idle overlap from 1/4 to 30%
-air correctors move the main jet fuel curve up or down in the RPMs, so larger airs will lean it out at top end and smaller airs will richen it up. They also play a part in the mid-range fueling, but it's tougher to elaborate on that due to the overlap of the idles.
-idle air correctors act the same way, but at a lower throttle range.
-emulsion tubes...well...voodoo black magic is a good word for these







. Depending on whether or not you've got emissions carbs, performance carbs, large aux venturies, small aux venturies, independent idle jets (emissions dells, Mikuni PHHs), or siamesed idle jets (Webers, some Mikunis), the requirements will change dramatically. Emissions tubes for Dells won't work in non-emissions carbs, and vice versa. Webers are easier to work with since the range of tubes that everyone uses is small in choice, and the emissions webers are super rare. Mikuni tubes are virtually non-existent in the aftermarket anymore, so you have to work with what you've got. Basically, take the tubes you've got and run with them. You can tune out 90% of the issues you might end up facing with jets and air correctors, and the last 10% is usually tolerable







. Unless you get a super old set of carbs, the tubes will probably be correct anyway.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Partially finished my new 'idea' today







.








Now, am I actually going to use it...no clue. Will it be efficient enough to work well...no clue. Will the car even start...no clue. Will the hood close...no clue. It sure did de-rust my welding skills though, as well as silence the little voice in my brain that keeps telling me to take my car apart again







.
I'm using a modified Canadian-Spec Golf MkIII CL intake manifold (TBI), as a base, but it could be done with pretty much any oldschool downdraft carb manifold. I'd like for it to be closer to the valve cover, but with a short-block 1.8 digi motor, there is a ton of room on top of the motor, so it should be ok. 


_Modified by B4S at 5:45 PM 3-15-2009_


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

do i spot 1 of the old webers?


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

wow wicked dude now put it on and make a video clip.








whad did u use to make the manifold any more pics


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *candm* »_do i spot 1 of the old webers?










You do indeed! Figured I'd try to use at least one of them while I'm still building the 2.1 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Svedka* »_wow wicked dude now put it on and make a video clip.








whad did u use to make the manifold any more pics










1/4" plate steel for the flanges (yeah, huge PITA to work with), 1.5" weld-els for the outlets, and exhaust tubing for the trunk. It took me a while to build, and could definitely have been done better, but for a prototype it's not bad. I've been re-thinking my idea of putting it on after dynoing the duals...it might see some action a lot sooner than that if the weather stays warm here







. If it works, and I like it, I'll put some effort into redoing it, with improvements.
I'll put up some more pics of it once I'm sure it works...it's far from pretty, lol.


_Modified by B4S at 9:33 PM 3-15-2009_


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

That looks pretty fun man. I wish I could weld.. not that I actually have anywhere to weld..








So far I've just been working on the wiring, but work is making it really hard since i've been out on a job since friday morning and just got back tonight.
Let me tell you.. that plastic stuff that vw originally used to kind of wrap the wires is a PITA to take off!!







It looks like I am actually missing the entire interior harness to the car so if any of you guys have an extra one sitting around for a 83-93 fuse box let me know!
A pic or 2 for fun!
Where I'm working on the wiring. Its nice being single..
















My newest addition to my help teach me carbs..


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

HA! I see the essential bachelor survival equipment: Guitar hero, laptop, and VW parts http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

check my signature for a build thread update, but more importantly, i have questions








so if the intake manifold doesn't have a place for a vacuum line to send to the brake booster, is there another place to draw vacuum? there's a spot on the manifold that looks like a good place to have a tap drilled in, but then that line will be getting a fuel/air mix into it, right? or is that a non-issue because it's vacuum... but it's not vacuum when you're on the accelerator, only when you're at idle... as you can see i'm a little confused...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Yeah, just find a flat spot on the manifold and drill/tap a hole for the booster barb. It'll only see vacuum anyway, so no fuel mixture at all. At WOT, when the vac signal is low, the air is still only travelling one way. At that point, there is very little pull on the brake booster anyway. No worries http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

thanks! and i even found a pic (thanks to the dope shizz thread) of it being done very very nicely.... commence drooling now:








edit: upon further inspection, yes the AN fitting is probably not real. and i'm not a fan of sending heated post-rad air into the engine








but it is pretty....


_Modified by notajetta at 1:10 PM 3-16-2009_


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_thanks! and i even found a pic (thanks to the dope shizz thread) of it being done very very nicely.... commence drooling now:
edit: upon further inspection, yes the AN fitting is probably not real. and i'm not a fan of sending heated post-rad air into the engine








but it is pretty....


Man if my engine bay can look anything close to that one day that would be awesome..








For now I would just like to get her running..


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

Hey guy. I heard the best way to get at the wires is to boil the harness. Makes the plastic come of like buttah. Now go and get a big lobster pot, you bachelor, and start boiling. Don't worry about that funny smell, thats just your weed pipe!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Finished cleaning up the ridges and sharp edges on the base flange tonight. Have to pick up some brake cleaner to give it a thorough cleaning inside, do a bit more smoothing, and hopefully I'll be experimenting by the weekend







.
The downside is that I have no spare weber jets, so it'll idle...but it'll probably be a bit rich under load. Hell, if it runs, I'll be pretty happy. I guess it'll be a good time to prep the engine for the clutch swap too...wonder if I should take it out







.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

So I guess having a wideband o2 sensor is probably a good thing to have?
Also, I've never owned a 16v.. just 8vs on Digi so I'm not really familiar with all of the connections on the 16v. So what connections do I really need in the bay?
This is what I was going to leave...
Brown CTS sensor for gauge.
Alt/Starter/Coil stuff
Hall Sender/ICM to use with MSD
Lights
I think thats about it..


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Pretty much, that's all you'll need. I have an oil temp sensor, and a dead oil pressure gauge sender to add to that. The Rad fan stuff is important, but it's usually separate anyway.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Pretty much, that's all you'll need. I have an oil temp sensor, and a dead oil pressure gauge sender to add to that. The Rad fan stuff is important, but it's usually separate anyway.








... Oh yeah forgot about that little guy.
Thanks. I just gotta figure out where everything goes and then find an interior harness.


----------



## MK123GTi (Jun 2, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

Figured id put up my set up. Its a little different then others on here bit it is very effective
































159 hp 145 tq to the wheels
2150cc aba huge valve head no porting
93 pump gas









turns only left
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by MK123GTi at 3:49 PM 3-20-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

SWEET BABY JEEBUS! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I seriously LOVE that, I've been tempted by the holley 2BBL many many times. Is it a 350cfm or a 500cfm?


----------



## hmontaq (Jul 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I posted back on page 5 with my half dead set up. I just bought a Audi 3A 2.0 with the Autotech stroker 2.1 kit in it. Now I am wondering if my carbs need to be bigger than the 40mm Dells I have?


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i got a limited assortment of weber jets laying around. let me know what you need, and I'll take a peek.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (VenaGTi)*

I've got a question about my manifold for the carbs. I was looking at it the other day and just realized that there is a hole in top of one of the runners. Is this what you guys use to tap a vacuum? Do you just run that back to the brake booster orr....?
Its on the runner going to cylinder #4...









Also, I just got done going through that Speedpro book that I bought for the webers. These are the settings I came up with to start out with, and then tune from there. Anyone know the stock settings for 40DCOE Webers? I know i've seen it around here somewhere but I forget where. Input is appreciated.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Choke: 34mm
Idle Jet: 50 F2
Main Jet: 145
Emulsion Tube: F11
Air Corrector: 160
Aux Venturi: 4.5
Accel Pump Jet: 40
Needle Valve: 2.00

_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 4:50 PM 3-22-2009_


_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 4:51 PM 3-22-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

That air corrector seems small, but it'll run pretty well on those jets. It's going to need a bit of tweaking, but it seems like a good base setup. Maybe some 180-200 airs to start if you have them.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Well I decided to give the dells a rest for a bit, so I can rebuild them. I`m now running an old Holley 5200 2BBL progressive (aka the Weber DFEV







). I like the way it runs so far, but haven`t test driven it yet. It`ll be nice to only have to purchase one jet at a time, lol. The single sidedraft adapter I made works off the downdraft manifold, so I had to put it on anyway








.


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (MK123GTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MK123GTi* »_Figured id put up my set up. Its a little different then others on here bit it is very effective
































159 hp 145 tq to the wheels
2150cc aba huge valve head no porting
93 pump gas









turns only left
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Modified by MK123GTi at 3:49 PM 3-20-2009_

whoa!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Well I decided to give the dells a rest for a bit, so I can rebuild them. I`m now running an old Holley 5200 2BBL progressive (aka the Weber DFEV







). I like the way it runs so far, but haven`t test driven it yet. It`ll be nice to only have to purchase one jet at a time, lol. The single sidedraft adapter I made works off the downdraft manifold, so I had to put it on anyway







.

Haha, man I think you change carbs more than I change clothes..


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

It's part of my addiction







.
Did a bit of testing, and the AFRs seem pretty good right now. The carb I'm using is part of an old upgrade kit for the early rabbits with the Solex or pierburg carbs, so it's actually jetted quite well for my needs. I don't like the short throttle 'throw', so I'll be lengthening the arm a bit tonight. The return springs are also too weak, so I've got some universals to try out. I like a stiffer pedal, it helps keep the AFRs steady. From the initial drive with the weak springs, the only thing I could really deduce is that when the secondary opens...it's a LOT snappier than my duals down low. If I take the time to buy some 28-30mm chokes for my dells, I'm sure I could replicate that feeling...but why bother







. I'll throw them back on when I get bored again, lol.
...just picked up a universal Mr.Gasket 2BBL-to-4BBL adapter plate for $20 at PartSource (canadian PepBoys), and it looks like the 2BBL bolt pattern on it is identical to the Weber DGV/DFV pattern on the 2BBL downdraft that is so frequently used...







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

1 - the 2BBL to 4BBL adapter needs a BIT of modding, but only about 2 minutes with a file







.
2 - the new carb is disappointing...I haven't had to tune it at all!







. Now that there is a stronger spring on the linkage, it cruises at 14.2-14.5:1 and drops to 13:1 at WOT. What the hell!? This isn't fair, lol. The tuning is the part I like best! The only thing I get to do is order a smaller idle jet to get the cruise fueling where I want it, and then reset the acc pump to the 3rd notch. Currently it's set on the 1st, for economy reasons. The test drives with it at 3 were...amusing







. Since it's a Holley-modded DFEV, the acc pump is slightly different than the Weber version, but very effective...if the trail of my unexpected-one-wheel-peel is to be believed







.



_Modified by B4S at 7:01 PM 3-24-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

HA! Whipped up an airbox (since paying 30$ for a filter to fit the housing I got with it wasn't gonna happen) and now it needs tuning







. One or two steps leaner on the primary idle, two steps leaner on the secondary idle, and one step leaner on the secondary main.


----------



## gogogadget (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

curious to see if anyone is running a hybrid motor setup on carbs?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Hybrid?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Test fit the single sidedraft manifold adapter today...hood won't close, lol. It needs to be an inch or two shorter, and while I could do it...I had no motivation today. Went to put the single back on...and cracked the adapter







. So now the duals are back.
I am going to have to find a Carbs Anonymous soon...







.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Hybrid?

I think he means an aba bottom end with 16v head..










_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Test fit the single sidedraft manifold adapter today...hood won't close, lol. It needs to be an inch or two shorter, and while I could do it...I had no motivation today. Went to put the single back on...and cracked the adapter







. So now the duals are back.
I am going to have to find a Carbs Anonymous soon...







.

Haha man I wish I had half of the knowledge you do about carbs. I did a did a little bit of work saturday and got my Ignition all setup, but was stuck out on an oil rig last night and all of today.
Question.. Is the carter fuel pump a pull through pump or do I need to feed it with the intank pump? Also can it just pull through the intank pump thats already there if it is a pull through?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm still pretty much a carb newb, I've learned a lot from the guys in this forum http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. I just don't want to see this knowledge go the way of the dodo, so I try to help whenever I can.
I've read that some folks use the carter to pull through the intank pump, but for me, I'd use the intank pump alone to feed the carbs. A local ITB racer does that with his Mikunis and has never reported an issue.


----------



## riceatingrabbit (Aug 20, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

man I really want carbs....


----------



## 2lowcoupedoor (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (riceatingrabbit)*

Here is my project so far, it's coming along still have to shave the bay!
The Car:

























The 16v on Dellorto 45's:


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (2lowcoupedoor)*

Love your car. I've been following your other thread.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 2lowcoupedoor (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubyaVR6* »_Love your car. I've been following your other thread.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I love it too







.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (2lowcoupedoor)*

i have a question about ignition timing. the msd 6al + 8980 (or equivalent) seem to be the accepted method for getting a timing advance curve. but didn't the ignition have a timing curve from the factory? is there a way to just use that curve? there is an obvious gap in my education here








the detail: i'm going to be running a 16v with autotech cam gear (adjustable) and sport cams that's been swapped into a mk1 (see the link in my sig)


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_i have a question about ignition timing. the msd 6al + 8980 (or equivalent) seem to be the accepted method for getting a timing advance curve. but didn't the ignition have a timing curve from the factory? is there a way to just use that curve? there is an obvious gap in my education here








the detail: i'm going to be running a 16v with autotech cam gear (adjustable) and sport cams that's been swapped into a mk1 (see the link in my sig)

Yes but thats what your ecu/icm/knock box used to be for. Most people take them out and just run the MSD setup. The MSD 6al fires your coil and the 8980 gives you your curve which is 'all in' by 3000 rpm.
Although I'm really new at this also, but I'm pretty sure that is right.

So this is how all my MSD stuff is going to be mounted in my rain tray. I have everything soldered together. I was just wondering if anyone thought there would be a problem with the way I have the ICM mounted? Its on there with sticky poster stuff, but I can pick it up by the ICM and it'll hold the MSD on there and they'll both be grounded.. I think it should be fine. Oh.. the wires won't be so messy either..


















_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 9:56 PM 3-31-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

That's pretty much how my Jacob's stuff is mounted too http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
I was off work today, and am also off tomorrow and friday...so I've been working on the car (of course








). Got the new valve cover on, and the new cam & gear installed. Right now it's zeroed out, but it came at +4*, which moves the powerband down the RPMs a bit...which works for me! I'll experiment a bit before my club's dyno day and see where I like it. It's a very mild cam (Neuspeed 256), which is perfect for my setup right now. I also took the time to re-sync my carbs, using the Carbtune tool that candm (Don) sent over the winter. I can not stress how useful this thing is! I figured I had gotten all 4 barrels pretty close to each other...oh how I was wrong. There has been a lean pop that I couldn't tune out, and I knew which cylinder it was, so the frustration level was high. Thanks to the Carbtune I was able to pinpoint it, and set the bypass screw for that barrel. Now all 4 cylinders are within 1 InHG of each other, and the lean pop is gone! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. Long story short, HUGE THANKS to candm for the Carbtune, everyone with dual carbs should have one (at least the setups without gigantic cams







).
Enough jabber, more pics!


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Why will it not work for big cams?
my MSD
















I was running on the stock stuff for a a month but it was night and day with the MSD so much better.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *impulse byer* »_ Why will it not work for big cams?
my MSD
I was running on the stock stuff for a a month but it was night and day with the MSD so much better.

Nice setup! Looks really clean!


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

Thanks it was 3 years ago now wasn't even done yet. It's stripped down now waiting for me to put it back together. Should have some pic's in the next few weeks.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*

Yess Pics!
So I started looking at the carbs today and its looks like they have been used a good bit before. I just have a question. There is an open hole in the middle of the accelerator pump cover. What is this for? Is it even suppose to be there? The speedpro book I bought about weber carbs doesn't say anything about there being a hole there. I also found a bunch of jets and all that stuff in the carb box. I dunno if they normally come with the carbs but I'm pretty excited about it!
Pic of it...








All of the jets and stuff I found!










_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 10:39 PM 4-1-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *impulse byer* »_ Why will it not work for big cams?


It works on vacuum pulses, and large cams typically have poor idle vacuum and uneven pulses. I'm going on what I've been told from the fellow who sent it to me, he reported that it didn't work very well with the huge cams he's got in his 16v.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubyaVR6* »_
Pic of it...








All of the jets and stuff I found!









_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 10:39 PM 4-1-2009_

That hole is normal, no worries.
The bags of jets is a GOLD MINE! Once you start to tune, you'll see exactly how useful having that many is http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. That bag of pump jets (left) is worth a fortune, believe it or not...and each of the main jets (right) is worth about $3.00 each.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

So I took one of my carbs apart tonight. These are the settings to the jets and all that good stuff..
Chokes: 34mm
Idle Jet: 55 F9
Main Jet: 135
Emulsion Tube: F11
Air Corrector: 200
Aux Venturi: ??? Didn't get there yet
Accel Pump Jet: 50
Needle Valve: 1.75
Also It feels like the accelerator pump rod/spring/barrel is catching somewhere on one of the carbs and the throttle plates won't return the whole way unless I pull pretty hard on the linkage arm. And all of the screws that hold the throttle plates onto the linkage are basically stripped..


----------



## ens (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

awsome setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
check out mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqT5Hdr_XDE


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (ens)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ens* »_awsome setup http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
check out mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqT5Hdr_XDE

Nice.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I want a synchrometer.
Where do you guys get your parts to repair/rebuild your webers?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I buy most of my stuff from http://www.dellorto.co.uk (Eurocarb, they service both Weber and Dellorto), and http://www.fastroadcars.co.uk. For me up here in Canadia, the shipping is way faster, and there are zero brokerage fees with Royal AirMail. I rarely wait more than a week for any part, and their customer service is amazing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I buy most of my stuff from http://www.dellorto.co.uk (Eurocarb, they service both Weber and Dellorto), and http://www.fastroadcars.co.uk. For me up here in Canadia, the shipping is way faster, and there are zero brokerage fees with Royal AirMail. I rarely wait more than a week for any part, and their customer service is amazing http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.

Those websites are awesome! Thanks!
So my throttle plates seemed to have a sticking point on both carbs like 3/4 of the way closed. I'm pretty sure the little lip on the accelerator pump rod is catching on its passed inside the carb. Is this normal or can I file down those little lips so they don't catch at all?
Also the one carb won't return the throttle plates at all and i've swapped return springs between the 2 and the both work on the one carb and neither work on the other carb. Is it common for those bearings to go bad for the throttle linkage?
Thanks for helping out a carb noobie..


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I honestly don't know if you can file it down, I don't have much experience with Webers (yet







). I do know that it shouldn't need filing, so something is definitely wrong. The bearings can go bad, most definitely, and it's not a difficult fix...if you're very careful. Before taking anything apart, do some research, and take your time http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

check that the throttle shaft, spindle nuts, are not too tight. they need to be snug and then bend the lock tabs


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Hmm, found something interesting today, on a long drive to my local club's swap meet/bbq. With my cam advanced +4*, my cruising AFRs are richer than they are with the cam zeroed out. Even the zeroed out gear it's a bit richer than my O-grind (monopoint 1.8 in the Canadian MkIII CL) under cruise. The O-grind has very little overlap, so I'm guessing that's the cause of the richer AFRs with the 256 in there now. The throttle response is really nice with the +4* though, so maybe I'll do some re-jetting.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*









Well, it had been so long since I set my carbs up that I completely forgot that I had drilled my idles from 60s to 62s. I went to grab the 60s from my jet box...and discovered my idiocy. I've got 58s in there now, but that is probably going to be too lean. Why wouldn't I have drilled out some smaller jets instead of using the ones in the range that I use? I must have had a few too many RedBulls that day, sigh







.
Looks like I'll be drilling out some spare 46s, no time to wait for jets right now, but I will be ordering a bunch to flesh out the gaps in the box.
Oh, as well, I moved the vac signal to the CIS-E knockbox from the brake booster line (which is only from one runner) to a vac line that bridges runners, and my idle has become much smoother (not using the idle switch anymore). With the engine set to factory 6* BTDC, with the idle switch disconnected it idles at 10-11*, which is perfect for me. I wish I knew what the WOT switch did, so that I could be certain I'm getting proper WOT timing (again, not using the WOT switch). My guess is that it shuts off the knock sensor at a certain RPM to stop it from reacting to engine noise.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

All hail garage engineering!
I have never been able to run the cold start choke on my Dells due to the way my linkage pushes down between the two carbs. The linkage would foul on the choke cable and limit the throw. I finally got tired of it, since it's gotten a bit harder to start with the new cam (and the really cold mornings). It's a culmination of a long-brewing battle between me and my carb linkage...and I am the clear winner







.
When in doubt...go around!
















A bit of bicycle brake cable and sheath, a cable crimp, and some flat bar with holes in it. Done and done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Nice man. I'm diggin the garage engineering!


----------



## 76 swallowtail (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

^^Looks good! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (76 swallowtail)*

So you guys with dual weber setups for 16v's what throttle cables are you using?


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

you can get a universal cable from redline or go to a motorcycle shop. you then have to cut it to length, as well as remove the cable sheathing and end cap. once you have the sheathing length right, replace the end cap over it.


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (candm)*

I'm having a different issue. Finding a linkage setup to pull my carbs. Mikunis pull down.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

They do pull down, but you can also set up a linkage as a push-down. My dellortos are a pull/push down as well, but with a bit of thought it can be overcome.


----------



## ens (Dec 14, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

im about to copy your idea with the wrench holding the throttle


----------



## Dot_the_MK1 (Feb 4, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*









This is my car!
Now trying for something different... Have yet another brand new pair of Weber 45's and have a Audi ADR 20v N/A engine. Am going to try something different, seeing the ADR is a Large Port head, Hopefully no Porting Polishing will need to be done, However, i am trying to find out if the engine will mount in with little work or if it will be easier to mount the had to a 2 litre mk3 gti lump?!
Any advice?!
The car sits a little differently this season!!
Mark










_Modified by Dot_the_MK1 at 11:14 AM 4-26-2009_


_Modified by Dot_the_MK1 at 11:14 AM 4-26-2009_


----------



## BLONJON (Apr 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Rubberband)*

LOOKING FOR SOMEONE IN THE VEGAS AREA TO FINE TUNE MY 45DCOE'S. ANY IDEAS?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Just got a few jets in from http://www.weberjets.com, very fast shipping, and they're in CANADA!








I'm on the trail of a 1.9 with a built solid lifter head and schrick 276, so I might be needing my DCOE 45s soon....


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (BLONJON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BLONJON* »_LOOKING FOR SOMEONE IN THE VEGAS AREA TO FINE TUNE MY 45DCOE'S. ANY IDEAS?

fly me out i will do it till it's right and your happy









B4S you don't need 45's for that







but if you find some send them my way


----------



## BLONJON (Apr 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*

wish i had the didge.....flights are only $88.00 to vegas, outta my unemployed budget.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *impulse byer* »_
fly me out i will do it till it's right and your happy









B4S you don't need 45's for that







but if you find some send them my way









I wasn't going to use two of them







.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Just ordered some Air Filters, Soft Mount Kits, and Gasket Kits for my 40 DCOEs from Pierce Manifolds since they are in the US.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Having to submit the email form is kinda weird. Hopefully I did it right.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I may be ordering more stuff soon too...sigh







.
The on-and-off lean barrell is back, and it's cylinder 2...AGAIN. I'm officially fed up, this setup is coming off, the manifold is getting sent to the machine shop, and I may try to dredge up a replacement set of DHLAs (or even go to a single DCOE45 for the summer). There HAS to be a twisted throttle shaft or worn out bearing somewhere, the bypass screw on that barrell is turned nearly all the way out just to get it to balance with the others.
...arg.
...and yet...I still love'em


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Do you guys put your fuel filters in before your fuel pumps or after the pump and before the carbs?


----------



## BLONJON (Apr 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

B 4 THE CARBS


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I've got mine before the carbs. Some people run a pre-filter, but I've got a brand new gastank...so I didn't bother.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I've got mine before the carbs. Some people run a pre-filter, but I've got a brand new gastank...so I didn't bother.

Cool. I mounted the fuel pump in the stock location and I'm not really sure how I'd get a fuel filter in there before the pump anyways.
Do you have a carb gas tank or are you using a fuel injection tank? I've got a fuel injection tank and was wondering if I can just plug or cap the return line coming out of the tank?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm using an FI tank, with the return line plugged in the bay...just in case I have to go back to fuel injection one day. It's easier than having to re-run the line.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I'm using an FI tank, with the return line plugged in the bay...just in case I have to go back to fuel injection one day. It's easier than having to re-run the line.

Yeah all of my fuel lines have already been pulled. So I guess i'll just have to plug it back at the tank. I was just making sure I can just throw a plug on the end of the return line and clamp it down.


----------



## BLONJON (Apr 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

MAKE SURE THE TANK CAN BREATH, OR YOU'LL HAVE THE CARBS BLEAD ON HOT DAYS, AND A VACUME ON COLD DAYS


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (BLONJON)*

what's the best way to make sure the tank can still breath? i have my fuel return bung plugged as well and ran all new line up to the bay...
how did the stock setup breath?
i understand the reasoning for it needing to breath, i'm just unsure of what i need to do to make it happen







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
thanks!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I made sure that I ran the stock vent line to the gravity valve in the rear arch, like stock. I've just left that open to atmosphere, which isn't the best option, but it works.


----------



## BLONJON (Apr 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I LEFT ONE RETURN LINE HOOKED UP TO THE TANK, AND UNDER THE HOOD I HAVE THE LINE DOING AN UPSIDE DOWN U. 
THAT MAKES SURE I DONT SUCK UP WATER IN THE MUD.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (BLONJON)*

Would it be possible to just put one of those little breather filters on the end of that little bung coming off of the tank? None of the stock evap stuff is still there.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

It would work...but eventually, fuel could slosh out. I'd recommend running a pipe to somewhere higher than the top of the tank, and mount the filter there.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, I recently acquired a second set of DHLA40Hs to test out, seeing as how one of my current set isn't working right. I've made a jetting change, to see what happens. They are a 6-hole carb vs. my current 5s, so the progression phase is going to be a bit longer, which could change the jetting slightly.
-30mm chokes (formerly 32s)
-7772.10 emulsion tubes (formerly 7772.11s)
-57 idles (formerly 59-ish)
-38 pumps (formerly 42s)
-210 airs (formerly 200s)
I'm not expecting great things, but the 10 tubes are supposedly a bit earlier starters than the 11s, so I want to try the carbs in their original settings before changing back to my proven setup. I plan on keeping the 30s no matter what though...my setup is optimal below 5000 anyway







.


_Modified by B4S at 9:33 PM 5-6-2009_


----------



## vwbeaner (Jun 4, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (BLONJON)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BLONJON* »_I LEFT ONE RETURN LINE HOOKED UP TO THE TANK, AND UNDER THE HOOD I HAVE THE LINE DOING AN UPSIDE DOWN U. 
THAT MAKES SURE I DONT SUCK UP WATER IN THE MUD.

We all value your input and you seam very knowledgeable, but can you take the caps lock off, it makes it difficult to read?
-Thanks


----------



## Neutral2 (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (vw******)*

Been waiting a while to post this pic almost ready to start it up


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Neutral2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Neutral2* »_Been waiting a while to post this pic almost ready to start it up


Nice! Is that an aba swap in a mk2?


----------



## Neutral2 (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

Not quite a MK2


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (Neutral2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Neutral2* »_Not quite a MK2









Haha man I was way off. For some reason those frame rails looked like mk2 to me..






















Is that your garage? Can I come work in it..


----------



## Neutral2 (Aug 17, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

Ya its my garage its such a mess right now cant wait to get this car done


----------



## e-townvdub (Aug 1, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Neutral2)*

sick garage and i luv the bay


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (e-townvdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Big CADDY* »_









so i'm just getting ready to wire my ignition. i looked at my icm and it only has 4 wires coming out (pins 1,2,4, and 6) and their colors correspond with the diagram. the rubber boot to seal the connection only has 4 holes, so obviously it was not made with 6 wires. can i just add the missing connections?
next question: i'm not running an msd setup (yet), so then pin 1 should go the + on the coil?
thanks!


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_
so i'm just getting ready to wire my ignition. i looked at my icm and it only has 4 wires coming out (pins 1,2,4, and 6) and their colors correspond with the diagram. the rubber boot to seal the connection only has 4 holes, so obviously it was not made with 6 wires. can i just add the missing connections?
next question: i'm not running an msd setup (yet), so then pin 1 should go the + on the coil?
thanks!



You would be correct. If you aren't running MSD you would just put pin 1 to the - on the coil. I just added 2 additional wires into my ICM by using connections from parts of the wiring harness I wasn't going to be using anymore.


_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 12:20 PM 5-16-2009_


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubyaVR6* »_

You would be correct. If you aren't running MSD you would just put pin 1 to the (edit: - ) on the coil. 

i did have someone correct me and tell me that pin 1 went to (-) on the coil.... not that i'm saying you're wrong, because i suspect that you're right... i just want a little verification.







anyone want to chime in?


_Modified by notajetta at 9:57 PM 5-17-2009_


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_
i did have someone correct me and tell me that pin 1 went to (-) on the coil.... not that i'm saying you're wrong, because i suspect that you're right... i just want a little verification.







anyone want to chime in?

Ha.. That guy is right. I looked at the bentley wrong last night. Pin #1 from the ICM goes to the - side. Pin #4 from the ICM goes to the + of the coil and then to power from the ignition switch.
Sorry for the wrong info. You can blame that one on some of these..






















Maybe take that quote out of your last post so no one else gets the wrong info. I corrected my previous post.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 12:30 PM 5-16-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Swapped in some 30mm chokes the other day, and have had some tuning issues. Ultimately I think the 30's might have been a mistake, but they're a pain to swap out in the car. I've had to up my mains to 140s, which kinda makes no sense. I recently upgraded to an Innovate LM-2 wideband setup (dual channel) to monitor both downpipes at once, and even with the 140s it seems to lean out at high end in 4th. I'm thinking that the airflow at that point is just too turbulent, since I'm taking it over 5000 rpm. Either way, it never goes past 14:1, so I'm not too worried. I rarely have to go that fast, lol. I might throw in some 190 airs to help it out, but I'm concerned I'd need a set of 135 mains and I don't have any.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Definitely going to have to swap to the 10 tubes, to start the enrichment earlier. The flatspot is too big with the 11s and the 6 progression holes in my replacement set of Dells.
Also just ordered myself a Megajolt unit, goodbye coil, hello coilpacks!


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i was just looking at coilpacks today... dreaming of possible mods to come...
anyone have any experience with the setups that 034 motorsport sells (using a trigger wheel on the crank, etc) ?
for $225 if it's more reliable/tunable.....


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Go Megajolt, it's cheaper and does the same thing







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Progress
















The MJ unit should be here soon http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

MJ unit has been shipped, and I've got some shielded wire ready to go.
Can't wait to dump the dizzy!


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_MJ unit has been shipped, and I've got some shielded wire ready to go.
Can't wait to dump the dizzy!









Nice man! That would be awesome. I've been making some slow progess on the bunny. Mounted the fpr and fuel pump and ran my fuel line. Got my coolant block off plate and breather block off on. New coil is in. Now I just have to get to that pesky wiring. I also need to order some parts for the webers but I have to wait just a little longer before I can do that. I think i'm going to order from fastroadcars because I like how their website is setup and it makes it easy to place an order.
I think i'm going to go with the MISAB mounts and thackery washers and lock nuts to mount the carbs to the manifold.
Edit..
I also picked up some 93 cabby spindles so I can run 100mm axles.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








My favorite part of my progress..
Innovative LC-1 wideband 02 sensor


















_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 9:35 PM 5-21-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Cool, the innovate stuff is top notch. I like their software http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. I'm running an LM-2 on my Rabbit, it's huge overkill...but I got a good price







.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i bought the LC-1 setup too (great minds...) with the analogue a/f gauge (matches my other vdo gauges best). i still have to get my battery hooked up and the car's electrical together before i can do the LC-1's initial "setup".


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Where did you rob that crank wheel and sensor from?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

93 escort, same as the EDIS module and the coilpacks. Megajolt uses it all







.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

I'm in, Megajolt it is for me. I went and robbed a reflector wheel, sensor, EDIS module, coilpack and wiring at the junk yard for $7 today.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*

You won't regret it, mine fired up last night, on just the basic EDIS stuff (static 10*). It fired up fast, and idled better than it ever did on the knockbox ignition. My MJLJ is in the mail, so I'll be driving it again soon







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

VW power steering pump brackets are a GREAT place to mount the VR sensor too!
















I eyeballed the trigger wheel location, tacked it, measured a few things, then welded it solid to the V-belt pulley. Afterwards, I sat down with the feeler gauges and made sure that each tooth was the same gap to the sensor (yep...hand filed, lol). This also had the added benefit of putting a ghetto centering back into the wheel. It's probably a bit off balance, but meh







.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

As long as it works. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Did you get the MAP or TPS version of the MJLJ box?
I'll be going TPS as I run a TT 306*... Need to figure out how to mount it to a set of DCOEs...


_Modified by idrivemyself at 5:34 AM 5-27-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm getting the TPS version. I'm on a very mild camshaft (neuspeed 256) so I could go MAP...but personally I prefer how smooth the idle is on a TPS system. I live in a very flat area, so there is no need for constant barometric correction, and TPS is just easier to implement IMO. I'll have pics of how I mounted the TPS on my carbs, soon. It's actually pretty easy, check this out:
http://www.fastroadcars.co.uk/...d=141


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

It's a LOT smaller than I thought it would be...I love it!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Yeehaw! It connects, the car runs, everything does what it's supposed to, and life is good







.
Now I just need to fab up the TPS mount, and I'll be ready for tuning.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

I was expecting it to be the size of a small clock radio but damn its tiny!








Where are you planning on mounting that box, EDIS module and coil? Pictures please








Btw, found the TPS kit for less... http://www.sciperformance.co.u....html 


_Modified by idrivemyself at 1:09 AM 5-29-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm running Dellortos though, so I need a different bracket. There is a Dell kit available, but I just got finished making my own







.
I'll have pics of my install up in a day or so, I'm kinda dragging my ass







.


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Wait. So this basically lets carbs be more like ITB's in the ignition department?
I have an MSD blaster 2 coil, I want to run the stock 16v distributor....What does this do exactly?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

It eliminates the distributor completely, and replaces it with a 36-1 trigger wheel that is mounted to the crank pulley. No more coil. It allows for better ignition control.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Just got back from the inaugural test drive. I'm ridiculously impressed with the Megajolt setup, it's a lot smoother than it was on the CIS-E setup. The usual flat spot between part throttle and WOT has been diminished, and it idles great. It was super easy to set up, install, and operate. I'm definitely stoked http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
The overview:








My distributor delete (aka: an old dizzy cut down and capped):








The EDIS and MJLJ modules (the megajolt is mounted in a CIS-E ecu case):








The TPS mounted to the throttle shaft of the carbs (to enable 3D ignition mapping, RPM vs. Throttle Position)


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Nice! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*

Hmmmmm. May have to look into this.
P.S. I want your shift boot


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Holy crap I'm in love! I don't have to pump the gas to start the car anymore! Still have to hold it for a minute or two (choke not being used anymore), but damn it fires up FAST! Also, the flat spot is completely gone!








Again, I've got to say that Megajolt is the best mod I've ever made to the carb setup, hands down. HUGE http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to Brent Picasso at Autosport Labs for creating Megajolt Lite Jr







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*









Motor and trans sould be in tomorrow







Will need new linkage for carbs and spacers







but i can almost smell it running.


----------



## the12for12 (Jul 21, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
Again, I've got to say that Megajolt is the best mod I've ever made to the carb setup, hands down. 

nice


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (the12for12)*

So, how does this help the black art of carb tuning? Do you set up the carbs first, then run the MJLJ?
I'm so confused now. Do I get 1.8t coilpacks? (dear lord, I hope not.) Plus, on the Mikunis, it has a "pull down" throttle.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

No need for 1.8t coilpacks. It uses all Ford parts (all joking aside). I'm using a Ford coilpack, all the parts needed come from a 90-93 Ford Escort or 2.3 Ford Ranger (not sure of the years). Think of MJLJ as an adjustable vac-advance distributor, like Mallory makes for the aircooled crowd. You can set your idle advance, the total advance, and how fast it rises. Then you set the 'vac' advance for cruising economy. It just happens to be in a 10x10 map that's based on RPM x Throttle Position (in my case anyway).
A lot of carb issues faced by guys running them on watercooled engines are caused purely by inadequate ignition systems. Poor fuel economy (partially), flat spots on transition, etc. This leads to over-jetting to fix (hide) the issue, which also doesn't help economy. The classic car crowd has been dealing with this for decades, and the aircooled scene has some of the most intelligent solutions available. I was turned on to this system by a Triumph forum I read, and the aircooled guys have been using it for a while as well. 
You can set up the carbs on the stock ignition system and add the MJLH later, or install the MJLJ first and add the carbs later. It's really not that important to do one before the other IMO. I noticed a huge change in driveability/tuneability when I swapped from the dizzy/jacobs setup I've been using since last summer, so it was kinda cool to see the improvements. There are guys out there in the Porsche world using this on CIS as well, so it's not purely a carb-based upgrade.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

It's still somewhat a test and re-test until both the ignition and carbs are perfect. No, you don't need 1.8t coils although you could probably run them with some modification. The basic setup is run with a Ford EDIS Coilpack.


----------



## 2lowcoupedoor (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*

The carb forums have been moving so slow latley







.
Here is the most recent pics I have of my 16v coupe.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (2lowcoupedoor)*

carburetor throttle position sensor= my right foot.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: (2lowcoupedoor)*

give me more pics of that coupe! love it!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (candm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *candm* »_carburetor throttle position sensor= my right foot.









True enough, but it's hard to wire those muscles into the ECU







.


----------



## junn (May 6, 2008)

*Re: (B4S)*

now you like the megajolt but when i posted it no one agreed it was better







good progress b4s where did you get your megajolt?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I got mine from Autosportlabs.com, the parent company. Great service, great communication, wicked shipping http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## 2lowcoupedoor (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_give me more pics of that coupe! love it!

I was hoping you would ask that







.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: (2lowcoupedoor)*

this a delayed thank you for those pics http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
makes me kinda wish mine was a mk2.......... oh yeah, and wish that it was actually running


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (notajetta)*

So I just ordered a whole bunch of parts from Fast Road Cars. They shipped it out on the 2nd and I got it on the 5th!! I never thought it would be here that fast.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The UK shops have customer service down pat! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.
Just dynoed today, very happy with the results. 105whp / 119wtq, stock head, neuspeed 256 (+4* on cam gear), 32mm chokes in the carbs, stock dual outlet manifold/downpipe, and 1.5" exhaust







. This is with a basic map in the Megajolt too, peaking at 28* at WOT. 


_Modified by B4S at 4:36 PM 6-6-2009_


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Those are some great numbers on a 8v!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm hoping to go to a 2" exhaust soon, that should help it breathe a bit better and possibly free up a few extra horses, although I'm pretty darn happy with what I've got now. I also have an ABA bottom end that's also tempting me with it's extra displacement...and torque







.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Haha I hear ya man.. just can't ever leave anything alone huh..








Installed all new gaskets in the webers today along with new needle valves.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Pic of all my parts from Fast Road Cars..








New Gaskets!


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

For the float levels how critical are the heights. I mean I know its important but the weber book I have says about 12 mm for the shut off height and 26-27mm for the fully opened height. Both mine are around 10mm for the shut off which I'm going to adjust but my fully opened height for both is like 27-28mm. Is 1mm off that big of a deal or can I just let it slide?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Float height is pretty critical, but droop isn't as much. You can adjust that by bending the little tab at the back of the float, near the needle.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Yeah thats what I had figured. Thanks!


----------



## antifoaming (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm running two dhla 40's and I've lost my idle adjustment screw (don't ask). does anyone know the pitch and size of a replacement?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Look up "Alfa1750" on ebay, he's got new Dellorto idle mixture screws.


----------



## antifoaming (Jun 11, 2009)

I'm looking for the idle set screw not the mixture.
Thanks


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Ah gotcha. Not sure what that one is.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

anyone know what my spark plug gap should be? (16v with dual weber 45s)


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

What ignition are you using?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i just bought a MSD blaster 2 and will be using bosch single electrode silver plugs (at least i think that's what i bought







).


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I meant, what ignition system...CIS-E, MSD, etc







.
If you're on CIS-E, use the stock gap.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

and yet another ignition-related question. a week from tomorrow i expect to do the grand-'ol "check everything over and see if the darn thing starts". http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
in the interests of time and budget i went with the simplest ignition possible - just the ICM hooked up to the HAL sender and the coil. so without any kind of ignition curve or timing advance:
what is a reasonable static advance, and what kind of performance (or lack of) and behavior should i expect? i ask so that i won't be dissapointed, and so that i know what behavior is normal/abnormal.
aaaannndddd one last question. it was asked of me, and i think i know the answer... but it made me think. so: do you ever use the knock-sensor setup from the 16v with carbs?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I meant, what ignition system...CIS-E, MSD, etc







.
If you're on CIS-E, use the stock gap. 

ahhh sorry. none of the above








twin weber 45's on a 16v


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_and yet another ignition-related question. a week from tomorrow i expect to do the grand-'ol "check everything over and see if the darn thing starts". http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
in the interests of time and budget i went with the simplest ignition possible - just the ICM hooked up to the HAL sender and the coil. so without any kind of ignition curve or timing advance:
what is a reasonable static advance, and what kind of performance (or lack of) and behavior should i expect? i ask so that i won't be dissapointed, and so that i know what behavior is normal/abnormal.
aaaannndddd one last question. it was asked of me, and i think i know the answer... but it made me think. so: do you ever use the knock-sensor setup from the 16v with carbs?

Good luck starting it with a locked-out ignition curve, you'll find that 30* advance really doesn't do the starter any favors







. 
Unless you're running a race car, a locked out dizzy is the quickest way to swap out the carbs for something else. It's that irritating for the street. The MSD setup at least allows for a cranking-retard setting to bring it down to 10*. Much more than that and you'll find it tends to lock up and fry starters pretty fast.
Do it right, or you won't enjoy it at all. The CIS-E ignition is the simplest way to enjoy the car IMO. I recently upgraded from that to Megajolt, but had no real issues with the knockbox setup. Reliable and proven http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i have the ecu and knockbox hookup from the previous owner's setup, i'm just not familiar with how it works... how should it be incorporated into the ignition?
current wiring out of ICM:
pin1: (-) on coil
pin2: ground
pin3: hal sender (-)
pin4: switched 12v (coil +)
pin5: hal sender (+)
pin6: hal sender (0)
i'm looking at the msd setup (6AL and 8980) on jegs... not thrilled about spending the $$$... should i assume that it's much better than the "knockbox"? suck it up and spend the $$?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

To be honest, the MSD stuff is 'ok', but not the best option either. It just happens to be the most widely used around here. There is no provision for cruising advance, so your fuel economy will be reduced to minor gas guzzler IMO. The knockbox is better, in regards to timing curve and fuel economy/cruise advance. If all you're looking for is a car that drives, makes power, and don't care about how often you fill it up, then go for the MSD. It probably isn't that bad, but in my case, if I get less than 32mpg with my dual carbs...I'm pissed. Too picky I guess.
Here is everything you need to know about the KS install:
http://www.driversfound.com/sc...nsor/


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

well, this morning i bit the bullet and just ordered and msd 6al and an 8980. bigcaddy has the nice wiring diagram posted for the setup, and right now simplicity and reliability are #1. if i had the time to work out the knockbox install, i might have gone that route. maybe in the future. right now, i can't touch the car for a week, and in 2 weeks it has to make a 6 hour trek to minneapolis! wish me luck!








thanks for all the help and advice that's on this thread! this information is priceless!!!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

You're welcome







.
I went out and played a bit with the car tonight, did another datalog just for the hell of it. Below 4900 rpm, my AFRs are in the high 13's to 14 flat, which is my torque peak...so not cool. Above 5000 it drops to a steady 13:1, so I swapped in the 220 airs, and if I have to use my .10 emulsion tubes to get a bit more enrichment in the bottom end, I will. The steady 13:1 at top end shows that my mains are spot on, and since my torque peak is below 5000, it could handle a bit of leaning out to stretch the curve a bit further IMO.
Yet again, I have to rave about the Megajolt. Absolutely the best addition to the carb setup....EVER.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Shrank my idles to the 'stock' emissions Dell 58s, to see how it cruised. It runs fine, but I've never liked the lack of part throttle fuel for going up hills and whatnot, so I'll be bumping it back up to the ~59-60s I drilled out of some old 52s. Cruises around stoich and a shave leaner, which is perfect. The 58s cruise around 16:1 just fine, so it's just personal preference. I'll be re-installing the .10 tubes as well, since the 220 air correctors helped richen up the WOT AFRs under 4900 a bit, but not enough. 
I might be saying goodbye to the reliable ol' 8v too, depends on how a weekend trip to Toronto goes







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Oh yeah, added a fair bit of cruise advance, since I had forgotten that the basic map I input in the MJLJ had none. Immediately noticed a drop in engine temps over long drives, and my fuel economy has returned to the 27-32mpg area







.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

How big of a temp drop did you notice and how much advance did you add?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, on the CIS-E box, I would cruise around 95*c. On the non-advance map with the MJ, I found my temps climbing to above 100* (although at the time I didn't know why it ran so hot). When I added the cruise advance, I noticed that the cruising temps would again hover around 95*. I was cruising at roughly 27* on the bad map, and bumped that up to around 35*.


----------



## westydriver1975 (May 31, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I can't get my IMs working
B4S 
I see you have a rowlands single sidraft intake manifold, is it any good?
I was thinking about buying one, but I am the cautious buyer type
thanks


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I had one, yep. To be brutally honest...it was cheap, and the quality did reflect that somewhat. It took a bit of grinding to make fit perfectly, and had to modify the stock dual-outlet manifold to clear the center runners (very easy to do)...but I was happy with it. All the bolt holes lined up properly, but one runner had to be clearanced with a dremel in order to actually get the bolt past it and into the head.
For the $190 CDN I paid for it, direct from Rowland (that was including shipping), I honestly didn't have much to complain about. If I had paid more...then I might have been a bit unhappier. It worked great, the runners were quite big, and the flanges were machined flat. I'd buy another one.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Scored this aluminum reluctor wheel at the junk yard the other day. Now to figure out how to attach it...


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*

hello all!







had a few questions for everyone running carbs, I've converted my 86 Audi coupe GT from CIS to a weber 38 and I'm having some problems. here's whats been done to it so far. the coil is an MSD blaster 2, Bosch+4 spark plugs, 8mm wires, all other ignition stuff is stock. I've had the head decked to raise the compression a bit, 5 angle job and a mild port/polish with a 272 cam. Audi 5-2-1 "header", high flow cat, 2.5" all the way, and a Magnaflow muffler. now, I got her started and running, she sounds BEAUTIFUL! but she keeps boiling over coolant from the overflow.







I've been told this sounds like a timing issue, but all my timing marks are dead on TDC. would this factor in? the boiling over stops once the fan kicks on but returns shortly after it stops running







is there a secret to running these engines with carbs? I know it's a 5 cylinder but its essentially the old 8V VW motor with an extra cylinder and 2 more valves








is there any trick to the timing? anything to look for? where to start? I've been working on this swap for over a year and I really need this thing on the road














ANY help ANYONE could offer would be GREATLY appreciated! TIA all. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








I'll post some pics up of the setup tomorrow.
Joey


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: (Antikrist~86CGT~)*

I felt this was a good place to post my results of my carb setup. 
Specs:
1.8l 16v, stock bore
14:1 forged pistons
eurospec rods
balanced crank
lightened balanced im shaft.
total seal rings, 
1.8l 16v head,
stock valves
pretty extreme p&p
hd springs
Ti retainers
LW lifters
CAT 283/279 cams
Custom made dual dcoe manifold, 45dcoe webers.
























and a video

http://s9.photobucket.com/albu...4.flv 
View the build here
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4238456 


_Modified by [email protected] at 10:29 PM 7-3-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Wow! I was following your thread, so this is great to see! That's some amazing hp for a 1.8 16v, very cool http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I think there might be more in it. i was running out of time on the dyno, so this is where i left it for jetting. i think if i ran it just a little richer i might pick up a little more.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

It's possible, but that rich dip is so far away from your peak HP that it might not give you too much more to lean it out down there. A bit leaner at that point will DEFINITELY improve your torque down low though, as well as get it revving up faster. Your AF plot is really funky for a carbed car though, the peaks and valleys are usually a lot smoother and not so sharp, where is your O2 mounted? Doesn't dispute the fact that it's a kick-ass result however







.


_Modified by B4S at 1:20 PM 7-4-2009_


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I'm wondering if that would fit under the hood of a mk1.


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_where is your O2 mounted? 
_Modified by B4S at 1:20 PM 7-4-2009_

The O2 was mounted in a prob pipe that slid into the tail pipe. i have an Lc1 that i will be installing so i can monitor the AFR while at the track.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I never trust those tailpipe probes, no reason not to...I've just always been suspicious.
Still, I'm in love with your setup, since the very first pic I saw of it a while back. Glad to know more about it







.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

















From a local GTG last night. Can't wait to get my wideband in there this week and do some proper tuning. but plugs look good so far


----------



## ProjectRocco16V (Jan 19, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*

What throttle linkage setup is that? Looks nice


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (ProjectRocco16V)*

Made it from scratch. The entire set up is one off by me manifold included. Sadly i don't work where i have access to mills and welders any more


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Looks good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Would you mind sharing a few more pics of the setup?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm gonna need to get to TO to see this car in person one day...


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (idrivemyself)*


_Quote, originally posted by *idrivemyself* »_Looks good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Would you mind sharing a few more pics of the setup?

She got a little wash tonight


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (impulse byer)*

Love the rocco above me.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
For you 16v guys running dual webers what radiator are you running? My manifold is pretty big and my air filters at almost touching my rad support. I searched and found a guy was using a suzuki swift rad and i've also read that fox/civic rads will fit. 
Here is a pic of my setup.










_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 8:02 PM 7-19-2009_


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: (VdubyaVR6)*

My rad is custom made and i have more room in the Rocco to move it forward.








Back when i test fit it. funny the only thing in there now from that picture in the rad and the intake manifold. lol


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (impulse byer)*

I need something like that where I can move the rad to under the rad support instead of sitting in front of it. I have 2 rabbit rads but they are too big to fit under there. Did you custom make that rad yourself?


----------



## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (impulse byer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *impulse byer* »_
She got a little wash tonight









She is itching for an ABF alternator kit


----------



## rol1in0n20s (Feb 2, 2007)

*Re: (VdubyaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubyaVR6* »_I need something like that where I can move the rad to under the rad support instead of sitting in front of it.

I just saw in another thread that Passat radiator mounts will make it sit lower and tuck it up under the core support...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

That works on a MkII, but the MkI's lower rad support is welded in







.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i got a radiator for a '00 civic (half-size tuner radiator) but i still had to fabricate a mounting setup:








more pics at the build thread link below.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

Thats the exact radiator I was looking at. It says its 16 1/2" tall. With my hood closed I have 15 1/2 - 16" of clearance. You didn't have to modify it at all did you? Just had to make a mounting bracket for it to sit further back in the car?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

it actually sits behind and below the rad support... and to get clearance around the starter, we had a new lower radiator inlet fabricated














i forgot about that in my previous post.
i would say, if i was going to do it again... i would take a closer look at the cost of having one made for my application. if it's about $300-400 i would just go that route. unless you're good at tig welding


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

another thought: you might be able to use a good quality motorcycle radiator. you should be able to find one that can sit on the rad support on the driver's side without too much trouble. make sure it's a good one though.. i've heard that a motorcycle radiator can cool even a g60 equipped car... but i don't know if i believe it


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

Haha thanks for the info. I read your build thread and saw you said you need alot of modification to make it fit so I started looking around again. Big Caddy said he got one made for his rabbit for 350 shipped with a rad cap. I looks really nice and its excatly what I want so I'm just going to do that too. Since I can't weld and don't really have that many tools to work with it made the decision pretty easy.
What do you guys think of these filters? The ITG filters I have are to big to fit beside each other. I was going to redrill the mounting holes and then realized that I would just be blocking the airflow to the carbs. So I'm looking for other filters now.









_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 8:48 PM 7-27-2009_


_Modified by VdubyaVR6 at 9:00 PM 7-27-2009_


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

Any of you carb guys going to H20?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I wish







.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

I'm tring to go. I would love to drive the rocco on a long trip just need to see what i will be doing for work.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (impulse byer)*

alright, so we've got the coupe running and idling ... so now i have a few tuning questions / wondering if i'm on the right track.
first, the backround. we fought long and hard to eliminate some blowback we were getting through the carbs. it was only happening at idle and everyone was telling us that it was from it being too lean... so we checked for vacuum leaks and richened the idle and then did it some more... no change. the blowback was only happening at idle, and though every now and then we could get it to only blowback from one cylinder, it tended to be across multiple cylinders (and happened more often on 2 and 3 for some reason). my final guess last night was that the butterflies were vibrating at idle and were causing intermittent lean issues. the weber 45's i have are the 152 model and have an idle bypass, so by turning that 1/2 turn out and then giving it just a smidge of butterfly we got it to idle at 400-500 rpm without blowback http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif . the problem now is that as soon as i ease into what should be the progression phase, it kills. my guess is that now i'm too lean at idle to have enough gas for progression phase?
most annoying part of this: i didn't read every little line of my a/f sensor's manual and i managed to burn out it's o2 sensor, so we're tuning off of the spark plugs and the sound. old school, baby


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

How many turns out on the idle mixture screw are you?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

currently 2.5 (if i remember right). when we had it idling (but popping) and we drove it before we had them about 4-5 turns out i think... and the plugs looked like we were rich at that point. it was being a bit boggy under acceleration too.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The early 152s had a 'misplaced' first progression hole, when your throttle plates are closed, how close is it to the hole? Is it before or after the closed throttle plate? If the plate is way before the hole, then that could account for the stumble/death at transition. Here's a link to what I'm referring to:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forum....html


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Love it! I was going out today to see about tuning that out!! I was thinking E tubes but after reading that i will check a few other things out as well. 
I have stumble/bucking when i go from coasting to just cruising along with it. With solid engine mounts and a solid center clutch disk i feel everything thats going on with it


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

interesting (and very s%^&ty)... but i don't think that's my only issue (if that's part of it at all)... when we originally set the idle (with the idle bypass screws all the way in) it progressed alright... well enough to drive and tune. i'm still stuck on what caused all the blowback at idle. if that could be eliminated, then i'll worry about a smooth progression.
i've been told (and read) that i really shouldn't be using the idle bypass at all...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The idle bypass screws are great for getting a stoich idle, and a perfectly balanced setup...but they're a PITA to tune with. I did it on my first set of Dells, and completely closed them off on my second set, lol. I'd close them and be done with it.
I have to mention that every set of 152s that I've seen haven't had that progression hole issue. I have a set here and they're fine. I believe it was the early ones, prior to the re-issue of them a few years back.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

glad to hear that about the 152s... mine are brand new, so i'm guessing that's not my problem. i'll take a closer look when i'm working on them again though.
any thoughts about the blowback anyone? it was happening with the idle bypass closed, and was happening regardless of the richness/leanness of the idle mixture screws. we checked all our timings (crank, cams, etc). 
thanks!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Blowback like spitting and popping? Usually indicates a lean cylinder (which you know). Spray some brake cleaner around the manifold and see if there are leaks, if you haven't already done so. I have one barrel that's also always leaner than the others at idle, and I can't solve the issue, so I usually run it a full turn richer than the others on the mixture screw. My colortune shows that it's ok to do so, and wideband #1 (running a dual channel) says so too.
Maybe your throttle shafts are leaky?


_Modified by B4S at 5:23 PM 8-3-2009_


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

yup, like spitting and popping. we did the spray test and found nothing. and i can rich out the mixture until my idle goes to crap and the popping/spitting is still there.
the throttle shafts are an idea, we'll have to check those.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif fixed. after checking it for the 43th billion time, we had the ignition wires in clockwise order, not counter-clockwise.















runs awesome now! a little rich though, so on to the tuning.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif fixed. after checking it for the 43th billion time, we had the ignition wires in clockwise order, not counter-clockwise.















runs awesome now! a little rich though, so on to the tuning. 

Nice! Glad you got it figured out. I'm hoping to get mine to fire up sometime in the next week or so. I'm just doing all the wiring right now.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Got a beat-up old airbox from a Weber conversion for the Chevy Vega Cosworth today. I'll be making it fit, so I can FINALLY run filters. Just couldn't justify paying 100+ USD for decent sidedraft filters







.


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Can't wait to see pics of the airbox....Always been a closet Vega Cosworth fan.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm having a hard time finding a filter to fit it. The only one with the proper dimensions is from a 74 Nissan 260z, and of course they're not available very many places







. K&N makes one, but everywhere I ask about ordering it...they say "Special Order". I hate special order, it always means 7 weeks wait







.


----------



## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

You could fab an airbox yourself and run a standard filter off of the end...
For example:








It probably doesn't need to be CF though...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

If I can't find a filter cheaply/easily, I'll be getting out some textured plastic and making a box out of the Vega parts, since both the baseplate and top plate are plastic. A little bit of sealer/plastic welding and I can have a nice little box with whatever filter I decide to use







.


----------



## blown020 (Jan 9, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

want this?


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubyaVR6* »_Any of you carb guys going to H20?

Ill be there


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

wow how did I miss this thread? here is my setup, or was...
16v 2.1 9a. 288 cams, ported head, 11.5:1 compression blah blah blah
weber 45's I think 40 chokes. 145 mains I think. ran great.
















ended badly:
I hit a deer:








engine/carbs survived, and it lives on in my wifes car I am building for her.








here is a video of how the car ran. its long, better parts are towards the end








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BazxYKrhfqI
ran better once i got the jets set. I think I had too big of mains back when this video was taken. I think in the video I was running a 2.1 16v ABA w/ 12.5:1 compression instead of the 9a.
the other car is my friends mkII 16v on euro CIS basic.



_Modified by Digital K. at 2:46 PM 8-31-2009_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm glad to see that the webers ended up on the GF's car







. I remember the deer thread







.


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

man that sucks about the deer!







but at least the sweet setup lives on! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and in the GFs car no less! friggin awesome.


----------



## zcxerxes (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Antikrist~86CGT~)*

alright so i've got an issue with my carb setup in my notchback.
2.0 aba block
jh head
i'm running a single dcoe 40 on an intake that i fabricated for the application.
















i am having an issue with the idle circuit. i can't get it to lean out at all.
at best lean idle i am sitting about 12.4. and as i lean into the throttle at cruising speed it pegs all the way rich and stumbles till around 3200rpm. at that point it picks up nicely and revs all the way to 6500 without missing a beat. before 2000rpms the car picks up decent seems to be a little sluggish (i imagine it's because of how rich it is.)
info on my jetting and such is as follows:
idles- i've tried everything from 45f9-70f9 a combination of a 60f9 on the short runner and a 65f9 on the long runner seem to be giving me my best results thus far.
mains- 125
tubes- f11
correctors- 175
pumps- 55
i've double and tripple checked my float level and everything checks out there. 3.5psi fuel pressure. ign. timing set at 12*

i've been fighting with this for about 3-4weeks now and can't seem to make any headway.
i also have a question reguarding the idle jets. i'm running an f9 idle how big of a difference does it make to jump to the next size leaner? 
would i want to go from a 60f9 to say the same size in an f8 (ie 50f8) to go leaner?
any input would be appreciated


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (zcxerxes)*

having some issues with my weber 38, I can't get the idle to remain consistent. as much as I fiddle with the 2 idle mixture screws, get her smooth and right were I want her, I'll take her out on the road and when ever I come to a stop, the idle will dip low or, on occasion dip WAY low, almost stalling, sometimes it'll sputter on take-off or low speed turns and sometimes pop. will also surge and stumble when slowing down, down shifting then accelerating out of a turn.







what the hell gives? is there something I'm missing? the carb was looking all sweaty and was cool at the base. too lean??? I swear, as much as I love it, this thing is about to just get ditched.







I'm just so very friggin sick of screwing with it! I can't get it to pass emissions, if I don't get a waiver I'm screwed, and there's NO ONE local who has any REAL knowledge or experience with this carb, let alone on the 5 cylinder







if anyone could give me any kind of advice or input i'd really appreciate it. I'm at my wits end!








Joey


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

get a wideband. Its just not worth it to spend the timing tuning w/out one. this isnt 1975.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Digital K.)*

FINALLY got some filters for my setup, but I put my back out so I can't install them







. I'm headed to the track on the 19th to see what it'll do, can't wait. I'm predicting a 16 flat







. 
Had my first issue of the season a few days ago, due to the heat. I'm running a very aggressive timing curve and got stuck in traffic the other day. Engine temps stayed good, but the oil temps got high. It would ping at the drop of a hat, and even on 'cold', the fan would blow super hot air (non-ac). It also started to get close to stalling at normal idle speeds, due to the fuel leaning out hardcore from the heat. Once I got rolling again and oil temps came down, everything was good to go. I think I'm going to mount a temp sensor in the raintray, pointing towards the carbs, and use the input to adjust the timing when it gets hot. I'm running 94 too


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

16.6 @ 82mph







.
No tach + 175/50 13's + stock dual downpipe into 2.25" ear-bleeder + 280lb driver who's way out of practice = hilariously fun day http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. It's been three years since I've been to the track, so I had a ball trying to get back into the groove of drag racing. I managed to get back down to a .600 reaction time (our tree is a .500 perfect light), and my 60's kept dropping with each pass...but I quit before I got below 2.3. I was also fighting a new fuel issue. Since I've NEVER driven the car in anger, and certainly not to redline in 1-2-3 with my foot to the floor, I found out that either the fuel pump can't keep up (doubtful) or the needles are too small (possible). I was leaning out to high 13's at high RPM and couldn't get it to go any richer, even if I swapped in the smallest airs I had. I went from 220s to 190s with zero change. The 32mm chokes might have been an issue, but since I'm counterflow...no way I could change them at the track







.
I may be putting the dual 40s up for sale, and my jet box (dellorto), since I've got a build happening that is going to require 45s...which I have waiting in the wings







. Should be ordering my pistons tonight...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (zcxerxes)*


_Quote, originally posted by *zcxerxes* »_










I know it's no help, and really late...but I LOVE this setup! Leave it to the aircooled crowd to do cool isht pretty much on a daily basis







.


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

Wow, just read through all the 18 pages ...
REAL good info in here!!!
Posted a thread on radiator set-ups ; should of have looked in here first...
Still need a bit more info / inspiration before I make a decision.
Its going for My Mk1 Rocco project.
I know I'm a pic whore


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: (fredybender)*

Wow that engine looks so awesome and you have RSL Cults!!! I have been obsessed with those wheels forever!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## zcxerxes (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
I know it's no help, and really late...but I LOVE this setup! Leave it to the aircooled crowd to do cool isht pretty much on a daily basis







.

thanks much appreciated. to bad it left me on the side of the road trying to get to h20.


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_
I know it's no help, and really late...but I LOVE this setup! Leave it to the aircooled crowd to do cool isht pretty much on a daily basis







.

LOL, technically he's not "aircooled crowd" anymore........


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well...'crowd of folks with the engines in back' just doesn't roll off the tongue as well







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Update:
Sold my dual Dellorto 40s the other day. I'm kinda sad to see them go, but the engine I've started to build might require slightly larger carbs anyway







.
For next summer I'll be rockin' my oldschool Holley-Weber 5200 setup on my current 1.8. All the parts are ordered for the 7mm valve stem conversion, so it'll be going to the machine shop once I get the new valve guides installed. Not going crazy, maybe just a three-angle valve job, and I'll polish the bowls/combustion chamber. I'm also picking up a Weber DGV setup, for comparison to the Holley-Weber, which is already set up for a VW motor (it's a kit from the 70s I snagged on eBay for $15, complete with documentation). I really like the Holley accelerator pump setup vs. the Weber, I remember when I first set it up the car felt so much faster than the duals...but the wideband pegged off the scale rich for a few seconds







. 
The only issue I forsee is setting the carb up for TPS-based ignition timing with the megajolt. I may convert it to MAP, since the carb has a manifold vacuum port anyway.


_Modified by B4S at 12:45 PM 10-11-2009_


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

The accelerator pump issue is why I'm glad I just got these SK Racing/OER carbs. I also have a set of Mikuni PHH 44's, but the SK seems to be the best of both worlds. Weber jets and Mikuni starter.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (dubdaze68)*









Got a box of carb goodies today. A nearly-new Weber 32/36 DFEV with the electric choke (soon to be deleted) on a vintage Dodge Omni 1.7 intake, three air filters, two sets of air filter plates, an old SU fuel pump, a NOS points/breaker dizzy, and a gummed-up Holley-Weber 5200. With my current Holley-Weber, that means I now have a fair assortment of jets and spare parts for tuning. I may swap the Weber acc pump diaphram setup for the Holley one, since it's far more adjustable. I also have a few larger pump squirters too, so I'm pretty much ready to go for next summer. I'll probably throw it on soon so I can cruise a bit before it gets too cold.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

So i've been trying to get my 16v weber setup to fire up the last day or 2. I haven't been able to get it to fire. The first time I went to start it the starter was bad so I put a new one in today and it will crank now but hasn't fired yet.
My setup
9a 16v
Dual Weber 40's
MSD 6AL + MSD 8980 + VW ICM and Hall Sender
Carter Fuel Pump and Holley FPR.
So I didn't think I was getting spark but i just took a plug out earlier today and grounded it against the block and it looked like it sparked fine to me. I have about 3 psi of fuel pressure at my FPR. It looks to me like the timing is set a few degrees BTDC right now so I'm not really sure why it wouldn' t be firing. Any ideas?








This is my first attempt with a carb motor so I don't really know what i'm doing..








I have one of those deka batteries and its a little low on voltage right now. I'll hook a charger up to it and crank on it pretty good tomorrow and maybe it will start.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Had the same issues with my first carb setup, more or less. What is your 'pattern' when you try to start it up? Here's what I usually did:
1- pump the throttle three times
2- hold the throttle about 1/4 open
3- turn key
4- if it doesn't fire, repeat steps 1-3







.
It sounds stupid, but if you've never had a carbed car before, like most of us raised on EFI, it's a simple thing to miss.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Had the same issues with my first carb setup, more or less. What is your 'pattern' when you try to start it up? Here's what I usually did:
1- pump the throttle three times
2- hold the throttle about 1/4 open
3- turn key
4- if it doesn't fire, repeat steps 1-3







.
It sounds stupid, but if you've never had a carbed car before, like most of us raised on EFI, it's a simple thing to miss.

Welll I didn't really have a pattern. I was just kinda cranking/pumping the throttle/doing whatever..







I'll try that out tomorrow. Now I have a question about the fuel. When I open the throttle how much fuel should I see coming out of there? I wasn't sure if i was getting enough fuel to my carbs or not.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, if you've got fuel coming out of the carb, that's pretty much all you need to see. Volume doesn't matter, unless it's just dribbling out. When you give it a shot of gas, it should be a decent stream of fuel that lasts about a second.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i had the same trouble with my setup, including the starter trouble. i switched to a standard battery pretty quickly too, just for the cca when the car is being troublesome. it just took some time to get it to catch. eventually a buddy who has a carb'd truck started it. he took quick stabs at the gas, each stab giving it maybe 1/2 to 3/4 wot, and i mean _quick_ stabs at a rate that seemed like 2-3 per second... that was the trick with mine. best of luck! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

Well I think one of the new needle valves I put in when I rebuilt the carbs was bad. So I changed it out and now I definitly have a nice solid stream of fuel coming out of my pump jets when I open the throttle. It definitly sounds like it wants to start sometimes but still hasn't started.
Although I found a crack on the bottom side of one of my carbs the other day while trying to start it so I thought I'd take the carb off and see how bad it was and this is what I found...
























I have no idea when this happened. I don't remember seeing a crack before I put them on but I can't really remember for sure. I must of over torqued it or something and it just snapped it I guess. I don't imagine that is fixable at all so it looks like I might have to order another carb. What do you guys think?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*

ooooooo that sucks dude.







from what i've read, it's not really a great idea to try and repair a broken body.... but maybe you can save some $$ and just buy a new body and swap over all the internals?


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_ooooooo that sucks dude.







from what i've read, it's not really a great idea to try and repair a broken body.... but maybe you can save some $$ and just buy a new body and swap over all the internals?

Yeah that would probably be a good idea. I dunno where I would find just a body though. I've been looking on ebay for a while now. I found a matched rebuilt pair for 550 shipped. I might just go ahead with those. I really want this thing to run.


----------



## speedtek40 (Jul 8, 2005)

Some days I miss my super cabby....this thread helps (or makes it worse...LOL)








They did sound nice on that punched out 8V


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

An FYI for anyone out there who might be interested. I'm currently running a weber 32/36 on an oldschool Dodge Omni manifold w/adapter and am having fuel issues. It idles great, but when cold it's HORRIBLE to drive. I understand that a carb setup needs a lot of time to warm up so that fuel doesn't pool, but this is worse than my sidedrafts. Once warm, my LM-2 (dual channel) reads great on one 'bank' (cyls 2-3) but goes lean by a full AFR point on the other bank (1-4). At idle, everything returns to normal, so the old dodge manifold is definitely not dispersing fuel properly. I was originally using a Canadian MkIII 1.8 TBI manifold modded for a Holley-weber 5200 and had no such issues. In the dodge manifold, there is nothing to aid in fuel dispersion/atomization, whereas in the VW one there is a heated aluminum 'porcupine' directly under the inlet. I'm going to swap everything over and see if the fuel issues persist. I know the porcupine is to aid in cold starts/warmup, but I'm fairly certain it helps break up the heavy fuel particles as well.
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just too picky for carburetors, or expecting too much out of toilet-bowl technology







.


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Did the Omni have one of those handy dandy air warmer hoses that sent warmed air from near the exhaust manifold into the air cleaner?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

More than likely, but I didn't get that part with the setup. It's more the uneven fuel distribution I am concerned with. The MkIII 1.8 is a TBI setup, so presumably distributes fuel a bit more evenly, or one would hope anyway. If I still have the same problems after the swap to the modern manifold...well, maybe I'll make one that suits my needs.


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

hey all just wanted to update as to my situation, I figured out the inconsistent idle problem, was indeed a vacuum leak, seems to be the plugs for the injector holes and/or the intake manifold where it meets the head. gonna do some JBweld'n on the injector plugs and then recheck it when all is dried/hardened, the manifold may need to be re-seated and torqued down again







but at least I know why I was failing my CO% at the DMV so miserably







and why it was such a whore to drive...I WILL get this right! I'm looking at purchasing some jet kits and more then likely one of those snazzy snorkel tops to relocate the filter down towards the front of the car and away from the exhaust manifold heat.
oh and if anyone's interested in attempting the same madness I am....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...AX:IT
oh and I finally got the specs on my carb(jet sizes and whatnot) so I'm not playing the guessing game when it comes to buying parts. and I'm pretty sure I can pilfer the holley 5200's jets for my 38.
but yeah....I'm a dumbass








Joey


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Antikrist~86CGT~)*

well, I am a complatet and thorough jack-ass







I found that the POS plugs for the injector holes were indeed the culprit for the vac leak,







I packed some ultra high temp JBweld type stuff down around them and also put a gob in/on the injector air/cooling nipple, and thankfully, no more leakiness!







idle is MUCH more stable and seems to have smoothed everything out a good bit. I'm so glad it wasn't the manifold! gonna reset the mixture screws later today hopefully. next on the list are the jets/jet kits and more then likely that snazzy snorkel piece, but first I need to get the new speedo cable, cause mine is shot and making a terribly annoying noise lol
















Joey


----------



## ProjectRocco16V (Jan 19, 2005)

Quick question-I have a 16v carb manifold, the short one with the vw and 16v on it, and it looks like the manifold will cover the injector holes. If this is the case, do I still need to fill them or should it be fine? I would think as long as I get a good seal it will work but then again Ive heard stories of manifolds not being created equally so maybe I could end up having a small leak.


----------



## rol1in0n20s (Feb 2, 2007)

Well if the manifold does completely block off the hole, but you're worried about a leak, a little RTV should take care of it.


----------



## BladesNet (Mar 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_More than likely, but I didn't get that part with the setup. It's more the uneven fuel distribution I am concerned with. The MkIII 1.8 is a TBI setup, so presumably distributes fuel a bit more evenly, or one would hope anyway. If I still have the same problems after the swap to the modern manifold...well, maybe I'll make one that suits my needs.

Quick note: the 1.8 CL TBI manifold we have is the same one that was used in Europe for the mid 80s up for carburated 1.6 and 1.8 engines ! The difference is the gasket !


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I've compared that manifold to the early carb manis, and the bolt spacing is way different. Now, this was the pre 85 carbed cars, so perhaps the later model euro cars got the wider bolt spacing. Either way, CL manifolds are a cheap way of doing a single downdraft, there's tons of room to tap it out for an older weber adapter. Did that







.


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*FV-QR*

Well I have doing a little reading and research and have decided to put carbs on my new project car.








Its an 85 coupe with an autotech 1.8 liter to 2.0 liter stroker kit installed.
I have had couple cars with CIS before and they both sucked donkey nuts.
This one is no exception.
I am loosing the cis and possibly the engine if the engine damage is too costly to fix.
I am looking forward to this little adventure.
I have a few questions:
1. can I use my stock vacuum distributor on a set of weber 40s?
2. what wiring do I need to retain under the hood? I want to clean house.
3. Can I use the intank pump and just disconnect the external tank to supply fuel?
thanks!


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (oopseyesharted)*

dude that thing is f#cking sex.







I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability...(if anyone has to correct me please do so) here goes...
1. 99.9999% sure that your stock vac advance will work (mine did on my 5cyl carb swap)
2. I'll probably forget something here but, keep all the necessary sensors(temp/pressure/amps/distributor/,etc) and obviously needed wiring. you could pretty much ditch EVERYTHING that had to do with the CIS, and A/C if your deleting it.
3. from what I've heard, the in-tank pumps are retained, and a carter or facet fuel pump put under the hood with a holley or similar 1-4psi pressure regulator.
there's plenty of people around who've been down this road so you shouldn't (and hopefully won't) have too many problems with your endeavor, definitely can't wait to see how it comes out! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Antikrist~86CGT~)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Antikrist~86CGT~* »_dude that thing is f#cking sex.







I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability...(if anyone has to correct me please do so) here goes...
1. 99.9999% sure that your stock vac advance will work (mine did on my 5cyl carb swap)
2. I'll probably forget something here but, keep all the necessary sensors(temp/pressure/amps/distributor/,etc) and obviously needed wiring. you could pretty much ditch EVERYTHING that had to do with the CIS, and A/C if your deleting it.
3. from what I've heard, the in-tank pumps are retained, and a carter or facet fuel pump put under the hood with a holley or similar 1-4psi pressure regulator.
there's plenty of people around who've been down this road so you shouldn't (and hopefully won't) have too many problems with your endeavor, definitely can't wait to see how it comes out! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Thanks for the compliment man.
I have heard that deleting the external fuel pump and installing a fuel filter is what I need to do to.
I have labeled the harness and removed the CIS poop.
I see alot of 16v guys goin this, but I am staying with my 8v engine (its a 1.8 block with overbore and longer stroke).


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

running a 16v duel weber 40's in my rabbit and having trouble with linkage. can someone help with that?


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

which linkage do you have?


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Digital K.)*

the male and female ones. but how do i use the linkages to open both carbs.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (cottntail)*

not exactly sure what you're referring to with "male and female".... can you post us a pic of what you've got?


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*

















those are the pics i got now. and the fittings are just the ones they came with.


_Modified by cottntail at 4:49 PM 11-22-2009_


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

maybe this will help:
http://www.redlineweber.com/ht...n.htm
and they are a bit pricey but i recommend one of these:
http://www.redlineweber.com/ht...a.htm


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

thats what ive uused, those are great.


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

got my linkage working. Finally










_Modified by cottntail at 4:35 PM 2-21-2010_


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: (cottntail)*

Hello Tex!
Just converted my 84 GTi to dual dcoe's. Looking at a lot of pics of other conversions and I see a lot of this:








That dreaded thermo switch...hated by all. I looked in a lot of places and finally found the right fix so I picked up a few extra:








This is the proper tapered thread pipe plug to fill that hole and clean up that bay a little more. You can have one for $5 shipped 1st class to the lower 48. Others contact me for shipping quote. Paypal works for me as does cash/check http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (Digital K.)*

What company besides pierce mani sells that deluxe kit


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

God I miss my carbs...
Can't wait until I can do my 1.3 swap, returning to duals for SURE!


----------



## brownhound (Mar 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

rad plenum


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

nice


----------



## 2.0VEDUB (Oct 26, 2009)

very nice


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

what fuel pressure reg is that?


----------



## brownhound (Mar 22, 2007)

*Re: (cottntail)*

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-13201/


----------



## rol1in0n20s (Feb 2, 2007)

*Re: (brownhound)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brownhound* »_http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AEI-13201/

What do you have it set on?


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

what chokes are you guys running w/ the big 16v's out there?


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

were at but pierce are manifolds sold at?


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (Digital K.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Digital K.* »_what chokes are you guys running w/ the big 16v's out there?

This. I need to check ALL the jets and emulsion tubes, but I'd love to know everyone's settings for the 2.0 16's with lumpy schricks and hogged out heads.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (dubdaze68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dubdaze68* »_
This. I need to check ALL the jets and emulsion tubes, but I'd love to know everyone's settings for the 2.0 16's with lumpy schricks and hogged out heads.

im running open chokes on mine. or I was. the biggest, I forget the number. 40? 38? they basically looked like sleeves. very thin. I dont remember what I had in it before, but they were smaller. whatever comes w/ the redline kit. I dont remember feeling much of a difference. IM sure there is a lot more to this than I am aware of. I really would like someone to pipe in and school me on chokes. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
the basics of what I run:
2.1 9a 11.5:1
288's 
port/polish
45 dcoe's


----------



## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (Digital K.)*

the theory of chokes is quite simple:you are accelerating the flow of air to create a drop in atmospheric pressure. As a given volume of moving air through a tube is "choked" down, that same volume of air, at the point of the choke, has to move at a greater velocity to move through the choke, the same volume of air. This action creates a drop in atmospheric pressure. As the fuel in the float bowl is under atmospheric pressure alone, the drop in pressure combined with its jet location creates suction of fuel. this is called the "venturi effect", and carbs are referred to as fixed venturi or removable. As is the case with the lovable dcoe, you can manipulate the venturi to create the best set up for the kind of driving you do. All of this only refers to main jet operation, so that we are all in the same boat. What all this mumbo jumbo comes down to in simple terms is that the smaller a choke you use(the # refers to the diameter of the choke in mm), the more torque your engine will display at lower rpm's(think streetable here) vs. running what's known as an "open" chokes which gives you greater hp at a high rpm(think race motor here). there is some more stuff involved but this is the simple explanation. If you are interested, I can scan some pages from an old book I have. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

looking for a 16v mani where can i get one.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

good post vena


----------



## Macho_volks (Jan 2, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (Digital K.)*

yo brownhound where did you get that throttle linkage set up i have been looking for something like that for a while.


----------



## brownhound (Mar 22, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Macho_volks)*

http://www.redlineweber.com/ht...a.htm


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

If ebay.de pays off for me in a couple days...I could be returning to the land of the loud. I really miss my duals and have a perfect opportunity to start rounding up another set for my newly-imported 1300cc







.


----------



## mudanddust (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

off topic but whats the bore and stroke of that 1300?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The 1300 is 75mm bore x 72mm stroke. As it turns out, I've got two 1100cc engines and one 1300cc, according to the engine codes. Turning an 1.1 into a 1.3 is simply a matter of boring it out, although I'm very tempted to run a 1.1 instead. Not sure I'd do dual carbs on such a small motor though...hmm.


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

soooo it's been awhile. the car FINALLY passed emissions at the DMV, after retarding the F##K out of the timing and struggling to keep it from stalling out the whole time







so now I can focus on getting the carb tuned and running PROPERLY. 
so now of course because I got even a twinge of optimism, I have another problem arise








when she's run and warmed up, it seems to be starving out when I let off throttle to brake for stops, etc. and have to give it a blip to keep it running.







it'll also bog down and run real rough if I'm in a higher gear at low RPM, AND the damn idle will just NOT stabilize and be consistent.







I sorted the vacuum leaks and the only thing I know to be wrong with the motor is the rear crank seal is whining around 1000rpms. could that be my culprit? or maybe that I have just the carter fuel pump under the hood with no pre-pump? my see thru fuel filter after the pump doesn't stay full, it'll drain to the carb and the line going in to refill it is just a fast trickle at best :\ I was thinking of moving it to the stock location and see if that'll solve the problem. as it will be pushing instead of pulling. any suggestions? maybe hook the hot water manifold under the carb back up?
I know I need to get an A/F gauge and re-jet the carb it's just lack of funds and all








oh and lines are all good, FPR is good, both fuel filters are new/good, pump is consistent/good.


----------



## mudanddust (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

what engine codes are they?/where did you get them?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Two GG code engines, and one GF. A local shop owner/friend is from Belgium and made a trip to The Wolfsburg Store in 2008 to begin arranging to ship a container of euro parts over here. I ordered one 1.3, and the Wolfsburg Store was kind enough to unload all their junk on me. Seriously.








I couldn't be happier, I'm a junkyard rat and LOVE hoarding parts...especially unique and interesting stuff. When the container showed up and my share turned out to be a LOT more than I expected...I just about danced a jig







.
I've got 4 Solex 31 PICT-6 carbs, so I may just run a 1.1 this summer while refurbing the 1.3 for boost. Might as well, since they're jetted perfectly for the 1.1 (OE carb).


----------



## #2172 gti 20ae (Mar 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

im about to order a carb and the post count on this thread was 666 before i posted and i didn't want anything to happen to such a cool thread














http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

LOL! I didn't even notice that!


----------



## #2172 gti 20ae (Mar 11, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i just ordered my fuel system for the redline weber 32/36 conversion kit im installing and im wondering if it will work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif (im too excited







)
carter fuel pump 60504: 30 gph, 4psi max
holly fuel press. reg. 12-804: 1-4 psi
0-15 liqiud filled fuel press. gauge and some fittings
thoses #'s sound good?? 
i hope so cause its on its way http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
im swtching from early cis on the 1980 rabbit 1.6, ive already done the pertronix in my distributer and msd blaster2 and msd wires.
any tips and tricks that might help???


_Modified by #2172 gti 20ae at 4:59 AM 1-15-2010_


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: The all carb diet. (B4S)*









45 DCOEs 38 choke
MSD 6al 
I¨m runnig vacuum advance right know (much better) i was running 8980 timing computer and it was going from advance to no advance in just 1000 rpms, now is much more smother than before. Probably i will try dis with megajolt in the future as somebody has done with success.
Kind regards to everyone from Spain.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

well is finally 60 degrees so ill be taking the GTI out and see how the carbs work they have been sitting all winter







im thinking of going turbo weber with my set up if i do i will make a tread....










_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 8:22 PM 1-15-2010_


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

all winter? i'm looking forward to a possible high of 38 tomorrow so i can work in the garage without completely freezing








the coupe will be sitting until at least april


----------



## poorscheg60 (Nov 6, 2006)

*Re: (notajetta)*

Anybody running a single Carb on an aba?


----------



## #2172 gti 20ae (Mar 11, 2008)

*Re: (poorscheg60)*

we'll my box from carbs unlimited will be on it's way the 3rd








ive already got my fuel system, intake gasket, and ruber valve cover gasket in.
besides some fuel line i think im there, my kit comes with a linkage but is there any thing else i'll need to hook up the throtle?
why was this thread on the 2nd page


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I've kinda let it go too, since I'm currently carb-less







. I got swept up in the frenzy of custom Digi-1 chipping (easy peasy







), and OBD1 ABA hacking. I'm swapping in a 1.3, and I'm having a hard time coming to grips with the sub 80hp engine that carbs would give me







.
I want to do it though, just having the typical North American "Need more power" argument in my head.


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

*Re: The all carb diet. (darthcabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darthcabby* »_
I¨m runnig vacuum advance right know (much better) i was running 8980 timing computer and it was going from advance to no advance in just 1000 rpms, now is much more smother than before. .

Could you please elaborate on this?
How do you run vacuum advance with a 16V distributor?


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: The all carb diet. (fredybender)*

It is not a 16v distributor.... i don´t know exactly which model it belongs to, here it is is some updated photos....








more info on car here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4559442

_Modified by darthcabby at 11:34 AM 2-2-2010_


_Modified by darthcabby at 6:29 PM 2-2-2010_


----------



## #2172 gti 20ae (Mar 11, 2008)

*Re: The all carb diet. (darthcabby)*

i dig the new fuel lines http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
those msd pro clamps on your wires are sweet too, ive got the same set on the 8v except i got the red wires.










_Modified by #2172 gti 20ae at 8:02 PM 2-2-2010_


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: The all carb diet. (fredybender)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fredybender* »_
Could you please elaborate on this?
How do you run vacuum advance with a 16V distributor?


I am using a saab 900 16v no turbo distributor, i hope it helps you, here is a place where it gets sold in the USA: http://www.thesaabsite.com/900old/c900ignition.htm


_Modified by darthcabby at 9:27 AM 2-3-2010_


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

*Re: The all carb diet. (darthcabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darthcabby* »_
I am using a saab 900 16v no turbo distributor, i hope it helps you, 

I already have the MSD retard module... and the adjustable one too on top of the 6AL... I think I should be OK...
Thanks


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: The all carb diet. (darthcabby)*











_Modified by darthcabby at 9:33 PM 2-7-2010_


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: The all carb diet. (darthcabby)*

anyone here maybe know why when I'm coming off throttle(like at a red light, slowing down for a turn,etc.) my car tries to die and requires me to quickly blip the throttle to keep the car running? is it possible my idle jets are too lean? I'm waiting on the tax man so I can get an A/F gauge and some jets but if anyone can give me some ideas it'd be GREATLY appreciated.


----------



## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: The all carb diet. (Antikrist~86CGT~)*

Yeah, that would make sense. Have you tried any other idle jets?


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: The all carb diet. (franque)*

not yet as I'm not completely sure the size of the ones in there now and don't want to buy the wrong ones. I'll see if I can get a "stock" size for my idles and take it from there. anything else I should get in conjunction with the bigger idle jets?
and thanks! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Try richening up the the idle mixture with the mixture screw. Too rich and it's going to stall, too lean and it's going to stall, so you should be able to find a good middle point pretty easily. If this fails, then try adding some more idle speed into the mix by setting the throttle screw out a bit further. I usually set my warm idle at 1000-1100 rpm to avoid any off-throttle stalling, where is yours set?


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

lookin for those thick gaskets everyone has thats from mani to carbs. where are they?


----------



## mudanddust (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: (cottntail)*

phenolic spacers


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: (mudanddust)*

what website? cuz i looked and its all mustang and STI spacers


----------



## dubdaze68 (Oct 29, 2001)

*Re: (cottntail)*

Look for MISAB rings.


----------



## franque (Jul 12, 2008)

*Re: (cottntail)*

You could use this: http://www.034motorsport.com/p...d=775 if you cut off the left most spacer on the picture.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: (franque)*

actually, what i think he's asking about goes between the intake manifold and the carbs, so that (expensive) gasket wouldn't work. you can just use a standard 16v lower intake manifold gasket for that.
this http://www.redlineweber.com/ht...5.htm is what i think you're after (the pic doesn't work for me... might be because i'm on a mac, or it might be the site)
the MISABs are a little nicer i think though.. they use a metal frame instead of plastic.


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: (notajetta)*

would this work?
http://www.racetep.com/avibe.html


_Modified by cottntail at 4:29 PM 2-21-2010_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Yep http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i had a set of "Weber Sidedraft Anti-Vibration Mounts" from redline/ racetep and with in a few weeks i took them out they would leak air and i couldnt get an good reading on the air meter, i spoke with several people on here and they told me to use regular gasket paper from Autozone $6.00.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I've used both the MISAB gaskets, the above nylon rings, and the gasket paper. I found the most success with the paper, to be honest. Eliminating leaks with the MISAB and rings was difficult.


----------



## Hung_Neck_Tight (May 10, 2009)

who is dallying on carbs?


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

I lost a few of the spring washers. so thats good to know







paper it is...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*Re: (Hung_Neck_Tight)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hung_Neck_Tight* »_who is dallying on carbs? 

Well, I didn't drive my car every day, but it always started right up no matter the temp (even when it was cold fall weather). With the right tuning, fuel economy isn't an issue either, I was getting 31mpg







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (Hung_Neck_Tight)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hung_Neck_Tight* »_who is dallying on carbs? 

I drive mine EVERYDAY in RAIN, SNOW and of course SUNSHINE...... im also getting about 27-30 MPG and the webers sound sooooo goooodddd

















_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 2:10 PM 2-23-2010_


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

well i made gaskets out of the gasket sheet. but my linkage hits my manifold to were is doesn't move. i cant find the thick mounts everyone has. thats all i need to fire up my car is those mounts. anyone got ideas or what not?


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (cottntail)*

i have used a few different soft mount setups and what i ended up with are the plastic soft mounts with o-rings, spring washers ( thackery washers ) and lock nuts. tighten all your lock nuts evenly, about 1 turn then go to the next one, until the spring washers are compressed and are just to the point where they are tight, not torqued . then back them out 1/2-3/4 of a turn and you should be good. i have done this numerous times with no air leaks. there are instructions with the soft mounts for a certain measurement between the coils of the spring washer to end up with but on my 16 v it would be almost impossible to get a # on the bottom washers so i ended up with the above method and it works. good luck


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (cottntail)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cottntail* »_well i made gaskets out of the gasket sheet. but my linkage hits my manifold to were is doesn't move. i cant find the thick mounts everyone has. thats all i need to fire up my car is those mounts. anyone got ideas or what not?

yout linkage must be really close can you post a pic?


----------



## syntheticGT (Nov 23, 2006)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

I am getting ready to pick up the K403 kit from Weber which includes a single 40 IDF.
I havent found much info on it after scouring through here.
I am looking for suggestions on a good cam that will work well with it. Its going on a counterflow 1.8 former CIS motor.
I was looking at Autotech parts but I am still unsure.
Help is appreciated.
btw...I have everything else for this car figured out/bought aside from the carb system and motor parts.


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

are we really worried about fuel cavitation for a street car? just curious...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Cavitation? In what context?


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

sorry to change the subject, but i'm thinking that i should add a FPR to my setup. i saw one on summit that will work, but i'm curious what other people are using.
i'm ideally looking for something with a built in port for a pressure gauge. i'm not currently running a return fuel line, but it wouldn't be a bad idea either and it's easy enough to add.
i'm currently using a carter 4070 pump (supposed to max out at 4psi - hence the lack of FPR)
any ideas? what's out there?
.
.
and yeah, what's this about cavitation?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

The carter pump WITHOUT an FPR is a vortex myth. Sure, some cars run fine without it, but that has to mean that there is something else in the setup that's not done right, that's limiting the pressure/flow.
I was using a Holley 1-4 psi regulator from Jegs, but then went to a Facet pump that maxed out at 4psi, so I dumped the reg.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_The carter pump WITHOUT an FPR is a vortex myth. Sure, some cars run fine without it, but that has to mean that there is something else in the setup that's not done right, that's limiting the pressure/flow.
I was using a Holley 1-4 psi regulator from Jegs, but then went to a Facet pump that maxed out at 4psi, so I dumped the reg.

my pump is located relatively high on the firewall, so just pulling against gravity might be keeping my pressure low enough. i hear what you're saying about a "vortex myth", but when it's in carter's own documentation, equating it with some of the other nonsense on here is a little insulting to those who research stuff elsewhere too















now, in your defense i have heard multiple reports of the carter putting out more than the advertised 4psi. that's why i thought i should probably redo my fuel system the right way

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









thanks! i'll have to check jegs out.
anyone else have anything different? i'd hate to miss something cool


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

im not running a FPR and i have a LOUD A$$ carter pump...lol mine is located where the OEM used to be, i was told this weekend that the people driving behind me could smell the fuel fumes... does that mean im pushing too much volume? my wideband is 14-16 also when i floor it the goes LEAN!!!!17+ --- on the gauge any help with that?


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (notajetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *notajetta* »_
my pump is located relatively high on the firewall, so just pulling against gravity might be keeping my pressure low enough. i hear what you're saying about a "vortex myth", but when it's in carter's own documentation, equating it with some of the other nonsense on here is a little insulting to those who research stuff elsewhere too















now, in your defense i have heard multiple reports of the carter putting out more than the advertised 4psi. that's why i thought i should probably redo my fuel system the right way

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









thanks! i'll have to check jegs out.
anyone else have anything different? i'd hate to miss something cool









Well i run a carter 4070 pump on the bay on dcoe45 webers, not regulator, the car is running great right now







so probably something is wrong right?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Well, the carter site was no help, but all the info I can find points to the fact that it's internally regulated at 4-5.75 psi. It's also a LIFT pump, not a puller, so if it's installed in the bay, it's most definitely suffering and not pumping as well as it can. It's a 72gph pump, which is MASSIVE overkill for a 4 cyl motor. A set of 45s running 5/16" fuel line and a 1.5 needle will probably run great with it mounted in the bay...but mount it under the car with the same 5/16" fuel line and you'll see that you overwhelm those needles in no time flat.
I was running a facet 40105 (2.5-4psi) pump, that was 12gph (IIRC), and I experienced cavitation at 6500+ RPM on 1.75 needles. 72gph is enough for a medium hp V8 (300+), and Holley carbs love to have ~6psi of fuel pressure.
I'm guessing that people are going to think I'm crazy because "it works fine now"...but remember, even concrete boats float







.


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_Well, the carter site was no help, but all the info I can find points to the fact that it's internally regulated at 4-5.75 psi. It's also a LIFT pump, not a puller, so if it's installed in the bay, it's most definitely suffering and not pumping as well as it can. It's a 72gph pump, which is MASSIVE overkill for a 4 cyl motor. A set of 45s running 5/16" fuel line and a 1.5 needle will probably run great with it mounted in the bay...but mount it under the car with the same 5/16" fuel line and you'll see that you overwhelm those needles in no time flat.
I was running a facet 40105 (2.5-4psi) pump, that was 12gph (IIRC), and I experienced cavitation at 6500+ RPM on 1.75 needles. 72gph is enough for a medium hp V8 (300+), and Holley carbs love to have ~6psi of fuel pressure.
I'm guessing that people are going to think I'm crazy because "it works fine now"...but remember, even concrete boats float







.

Nobody is going to think you are crazy because everything that is written there is right. Something that is working for me right might not work for others because all our cars are diferent... i am running a 2035cc abf big cams dcoe45(38 chokes) so my fuel requirements are diferent from the guy above which rides a 1.8 stock on dcoe40, aside that he has his pump installed close to the tank.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (darthcabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darthcabby* »_
Nobody is going to think you are crazy because everything that is written there is right. Something that is working for me right might not work for others because all our cars are diferent... i am running a 2035cc abf big cams dcoe45(38 chokes) so my fuel requirements are *diferent from the guy above which rides a 1.8 stock on dcoe40, aside that he has his pump installed close to the tank*.

im sorry i should have been more specific








1.8Lt, bored .040 
82mm pistons 
Head shaved .010 
Block decked .025 
280 degree Schrick cam 
Hi-Rev valve springs 
Dual Webers 40 DCOE 
Engine built (RPIequipped.com) 
Engine blueprinted by Techtonics 
should my pump be placed somewhere else? anyone knows what jets i should be running? any help would be appreciated it.... 
thank you


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (SpoolinJetta18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpoolinJetta18T* »_
im sorry i should have been more specific








1.8Lt, bored .040 
82mm pistons 
Head shaved .010 
Block decked .025 
280 degree Schrick cam 
Hi-Rev valve springs 
Dual Webers 40 DCOE 
Engine built (RPIequipped.com) 
Engine blueprinted by Techtonics 
should my pump be placed somewhere else? anyone knows what jets i should be running? any help would be appreciated it.... 
thank you









I wish i could help somehow







but your big cam has called my attention and i think that is one of the reasons your are going lean when you are flooring it.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (darthcabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darthcabby* »_
I wish i could help somehow







but your big cam has called my attention and i think that is one of the reasons your are going lean when you are *flooring it*. 

hmmmm also when im going up a hill and i give it gas to get the car going i notice the wide band leaning out, before it didnt doit i had the vacuum advance on the ignition connected to vacuum but the car wouldn’t idle then i plugged the ignition and the car purr like a kitten with hiccups (280 cam) lol but it will lean on top end..







i wish there was a way to have both......


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: FV-QR (SpoolinJetta18T)*

list what chokes and jets you have in the carbs now


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

ok ill try to elplain this as best possible
bottom jet-115
air tube F-9
top 200
any help will be welcome


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

the larger tube, or emulsion tube, has a # on it. the jet on top is your air corrector jet and the one on the bottom is your main jet. you also have idle jets right beside the emulsion tubes. those will have 2 parts to the idle jet. the fuel component, like 40 and the progression part that might be f8. also the chokes should be checked and to do that you need to pull the carbs off. with your cam you will need at least 34s and probably 36s to reach the rpm necessary to get full power. i am guessing somewhere between 6500-7000 rpm


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (candm)*


_Quote, originally posted by *candm* »_the larger tube, or emulsion tube, has a # on it. the jet on top is your air corrector jet and the one on the bottom is your main jet. you also have idle jets right beside the emulsion tubes. those will have 2 parts to the idle jet. the fuel component, like 40 and the progression part that might be f8. also the chokes should be checked and to do that you need to pull the carbs off. with your cam you will need at least 34s and probably 36s to reach the rpm necessary to get full power. i am guessing somewhere between 6500-7000 rpm


ok i looked at my webers and the idle jets they are 55 F8
and my chokes are 45s


_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 7:51 PM 3-10-2010_


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpoolinJetta18T* »_

and my chokes are 45s

_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 7:51 PM 3-10-2010_

check again that is not posible


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: (darthcabby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darthcabby* »_
check again that is not posible

lol sorry you are correct that was the pump jet.
where can i find the chokes?


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpoolinJetta18T* »_
lol sorry you are correct that was the pump jet.
where can i find the chokes?









the choke is the conduct in which in the air flow through the carb( well trying to do my best with english







) the diameter of this tube is written on the inside tunnel of it so probably you will have to dismount the carb to see it, i think that with 40 dcoe the largest you can go is 36mm.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

ok so lets say is "36" what about the other jets what do you think?


_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 2:12 PM 3-11-2010_


----------



## darthcabby (Sep 11, 2009)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpoolinJetta18T* »_ok so lets say is "36" what about the other jets what do you think?

_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 2:12 PM 3-11-2010_

36 is max so probably it has 30 or 32 stock from factory, here, in this link you can see and schematic view of your carb and the standard settings: http://webernorthamerica.com/p...1.pdf
Also on the faq you can see some kind of general rules about jets, check it out


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (darthcabby)*

i am familiar with my 45s but i would check on the redline site to see what comes standard in new 40s. however, i would leave your emulsion tubes alone for now. you need at least a 34 chokes. the f8 part of your idle is probably ok but the fuel part is probably a bit rich. i would go with a 45f8. also your main jet seems very small. i would try a 135 0r 140 and your air corrector jet maybe a 180. also, with your idle at about 1000. your mixture screws should be between 2-3 turns out from being seated ( on newer webers ). much more or less and you will have to change you idle jet accordingly


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

awesome thank you one problem almost fixed now i have to fix the others....








where is everyone getting their Vacum from? i think that might be another problem i have.


_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 5:38 PM 3-11-2010_


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

*Re: (syntheticGT)*

problems after problems. whats the best radiatior and water neck to use cuz i need a smaller one of both.


_Modified by cottntail at 11:53 AM 3-14-2010_


----------



## cottntail (Nov 22, 2009)

help please. needs to run for SoWo!


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

WOW thank you all Specially Dan thanks for walking me through the webers i did what you told me as far as Jets and BIG diffrence it feels like i double the HP before the tunning it ran like DOODOO!!! now she runs good im sure once we get the MSD hooked up it will run even better... thanks again Dan.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

my name is don but im glad its running better. looking back on what i have learned with the sidedrafts, its best to tune 1 part ( idle, progression, main, top end ) at a time, then go to the next. start with idle and mixture screws and balancing 1 carb to the other. then see how it accelerates. first slowly, then jam the gas pedal, looking for flat spots. then to your main jet, roughly 3000 - 5500 and finally your top end with your air corrector


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

thank you Don and Dan....lol Don i did what you said about tunning one then the other and you are right it makes a big diffrence once i did that the car ran 110 times better this week ill be installing my MSD and be on the look out for a G60 ignition i was told those work better with the DCOE's. i was also told by a friend to do a return line on my DCOE's so the pump doesnt work as hard when stopped in traffic, and also im installing a FPR soon this baby will be TUNED and ready to roll........


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Couple things: First, congrats on getting it to run better http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. Second...G60 ignition? Ignore that, the G60 ignition is built into the G60 ecu, so you'll have a hard time using it on it's own. Third: Ignore the advice to put in return line. All electric carb pumps have an internal bypass that either shuts the pump down, or stops pumping when the fuel begins to back up. I ran with a return on my regulator for a while, and it was 100% totally not necessary (and caused me no end of headaches due to wandering fuel pressure).


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

ok cool that's why im on here to get educated on how to better my car


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

well the GTI is running alot better ive been driving it to work everyday, i was impressed with it last night i chirpped the tires in 1st and 2nd so i was like yeah!!!! this friday is payday and i also get my tax return so i need something to buy for the rabbit.....???????


_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 5:27 PM 3-17-2010_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I'm returning to carbs on my Mk1. I've been agonizing over what direction to head in, and the end result is I've made zero progress. I've sold all my carb stuff over the past year (with the exception of a few things, thanks again Don







), but have just ordered a new counterflow carb intake manifold from Dellorto.co.uk. I've got a set of Weber 45s for a future project, but they're waaaaaaaaaay too big for the 1.8 that's still under the hood of my car. I'm going to order another set of DHLAs from Alfa1750 on eBay, since I know exactly what settings worked best for me...and also still have my megajolt







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Malpassi Filter King regulator/filter ordered







.
Might as well go with the good stuff this time around.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

God I love Eurocarb. They're out of stock on the manifold, and they emailed me promptly asking if I would prefer to wait or if I would like a full refund. 
With service like that, I'm waiting http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

well here we go again.......... im still leaking fuel from between the weber and the manifold i used the paper gasket with RTV and still leaking i measured the bowls and still leaking anyone have this problem?


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

anyone have any idea on how to fix this i really will appreciate it ty in advance 

]


_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 4:00 AM 3-31-2010_


----------



## jhines_06gli (Feb 3, 2006)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*

can you get a picture of exactly where fuel is leaking from? Might be able to come up with a solution to help out. Also, where about in Winston-Salem are you? I'm not too far away, may be able to help you out. I'll be up your way Thurs. to look over the MKI I'm getting.
-J. Hines


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

is leaking from the bottom of the weber tight where the weber meets the manifold the bold is tight too>


----------



## Bubble Block (Sep 19, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Im new to mk1s & carbs. so far i love them both... heres my work in progress..








































also converting it to manual... but ive been stuck due to the passenger side motor mount and the tranny mount







locating them has sucked so far... i just may have to place an order http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif hopefully i can finish tomorrow or the day after.. il post more about it when i do. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Digital K. (Sep 7, 2007)

*FV-QR*

are those 40's or 45's?


----------



## Bubble Block (Sep 19, 2009)

45s


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

does anyone have the leaking problem as well?


----------



## Cynical 1 (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: (SpoolinJetta18T)*









work in progress. 
went from this.


----------



## rickysinister (Dec 19, 2009)

*Re: (Cynical 1)*

ok im doing a 16v on cbr 900rr carbs the enigne is out of a 90 gli and its going in a 83 rabbit gti ..... i need to know how ppl are mounting it in a mk1 and how the alternator is being mounted? pics would be awesome !!!!! please me out


----------



## Cynical 1 (Jan 23, 2003)

*Re: (rickysinister)*

if you look at my pic above, you will see the ac compressor. most people delete the ac and mount the alternator there... 
me, i'm keeping the ac, and my alternator is under the ac compressor on a custom bracket...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Got my Malpassi regulator/filter today! I love Eurocarb, best service EVER!


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i started on my 2.0 16v weber swap... woohooo!!!!!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I saw your thread dude, that's gonna be a nice little setup when you're done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif. I'd recommend dumping the idea of a Saab dizzy though, and going for something a bit more suitable (this is IMO of course), like Megajolt or even an MSD box (loathe as I am to recommend MSD products







). CIS-E ignition would be perfect, and cheap even. A vac dizzy would be my last choice, although that's just my bias showing. A proper ignition system will transform a carbed car into a smooth, economic, and powerful beast







.
My manifold is on the way, now I just have to hope no one outbids me on the carbs.
NOBODY BID ON ANYTHING ON EBAY UNTIL FRIDAY!







.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

i promise i won't








just chiming in to say that my msd setup (i know you don't http://****************.com/smile/emlove.gif them B4S.... but....).... well, it's one of the very few things on my car that installed and worked as planned and it hasn't failed me yet..... and on a mk1, that's something

__
Image uploading. Refresh page to view









now i need to go knock on some wood or something quick....


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

Here is the engine block fresh from the machine shop. Also i have an MSD "sport compact" that was given to me FREE so i dont know how good that would work i will end up getting a 6AL eventually i just need to get this project on the road!!!!!










_Modified by SpoolinJetta18T at 3:57 PM 4-14-2010_


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Hey, someone bid on something!








The price of the hopefully-soon-to-be-mine carbs went up, boooooooooooooooooo. Still within acceptable though, with 12 hours to go







.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Crap, got outbid







.
I'm not paying more than $200 USD for a set of DHLA40s in bad need of a rebuild, plus $50 shipping. Some people really don't know how to use eBay http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif. For $400 I can get a set of professionally rebuilt/refurbished ones, jetted exactly how I want them. It looks like I'm sending some more PMs







.


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*

Yeah I bought a set of newly rebuilt Weber DCOE 40s for 450 shipped from italy.
Although I bought an mk4 R32 a little bit ago so I haven't really worked on my rabbit for 3 or 4 months..


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (VdubyaVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VdubyaVR6* »_Yeah I bought a set of newly rebuilt Weber DCOE 40s for 450 shipped from italy.
*Although I bought an mk4 R32 a little bit ago so I haven't really worked on my rabbit for 3 or 4 months..*
















SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!! thats called abandoment!!!!!


----------



## cammisled (Mar 15, 2002)

*injector plugs*

I know this has been brought up several times, but I am trying to get a straight answer on which plugs are needed to fill the injector holes on an 8v counterflow. All of the Dodge Cummins plugs seem to be m18, where the vw transmission plugs seem to be m24? 
Are these what I need:
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volks...8233/ 
Any help or a link would be awesome!


----------



## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

4 speed tranny plugs threaded right into the head i test fit them in.


----------



## scrubdub (Aug 24, 2008)

*Re: (Glegor)*

i went to home depot and bought some iron tubing plugs in the plumbing section. 1/2" and some liquid gasket worked fine. but im pretty sure the thread wasnt the same so its prob cross threaded.








but theyre in there realll good so im content.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

I pulled out the CIS bungs, put some nickels in the holes, put a dab of silicone on top of the coin and threaded the insert back in. Perfect seal







.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (B4S)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B4S* »_I pulled out the CIS bungs, put some nickels in the holes, put a dab of silicone on top of the coin and threaded the insert back in. Perfect seal







.

lol i did the same thing but i used pennies!!!!!!!! 
*also anyone knows anything about 16v carbed? i did a swap and im slowly building my 16v BTW i have the 8v weber twin manifold for sale 110.00 shipped anywhere in the lower 48stated.*


----------



## cammisled (Mar 15, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (SpoolinJetta18T)*

I ended up buying some transmission plugs from ECS, but if they don't fit I think it's going to be pennies and silicone for me.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

Got my manifold! It's MINT!








Thanks veedubinwhatever http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif.


----------



## ProjectRocco16V (Jan 19, 2005)

Here's a question:The carb manifold I have is shaped so once bolted up to the head, it covers/blocks where the injectors go. Is this good enough or do I need to block off the holes because of the whole air/fuel mixing and so it only uses strictly the intake ports? Thanks for any answers


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

*FV-QR*

That's good enough, I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## nilsj (Nov 13, 2006)

Current setup...


----------



## White_Rabbit_GTI (Apr 27, 2007)

Here is a small question, I've been running my setup now for about a year and I am starting to clean up my engine bay and I was wondering what everyone is doing wit the old fuel return lines from their previous CIS setups? Currently I've just had mind capped with a bolt and hose clamp but I notice it looks like a lot of people have no mention of a fuel return line in there setups, and I cut it way down low and just keep capping it?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I had mine plugged like that, no problems whatsoever. I'm EFI'd right now (fleshing out a DIY Digi-1 custom mapping project  ), and am glad I kept that l ine. When I go back to carbs (soon, fingers crossed), I'll plug it off again.


----------



## SpoolinJetta18T (Jul 30, 2004)

i capped my return fuel line off too just incase i was to go back to fuel injection is out of the way and canr see it, 
I also have a 8V counterflow Weber manifold for sale 100.00 shipped to the lower 48 states. let me know


----------



## eojthekid (Jul 18, 2006)

*high_five*









I am in love


----------



## eojthekid (Jul 18, 2006)

*high_five*









I am in love


----------



## lowdowndirtydubs (Oct 3, 2006)

I have both a vac advance distritbutor, and a non vac model. I have the "spark box" module thing. I have a diagram on how to wire the 2 directly together. Will this give me proper advance?

Which dizzy should I run? Vac advance or non vac.

I am trying to run with out a knock sensor, unless it is easy to wire in. Anyone have a diagram?

I eventually plan to run an msd or jacobs unit, but for now it needs to run.

thanks guys


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

By the end of the coming week (fingers crossed), I should be coming back. I jumped on a set of non-emission Dellorto DHLA40s on eBay.co.uk (huge thanks to the seller for shipping overseas!). These are the carb I've been after for quite some time now, but have never been able to find. DHLA45s are all non-emission, but I already have a set of DCOE 45s waiting for an eventual 'big' engine project. I needed a set of 40s to enjoy until that day arrives...and now they're almost mine .


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I hate waiting for packages to arrive. It's torturous knowing that somewhere between The UK and Canada is a set of Dells with my name on them. I check the tracking # three times an hour, lol.

-manifold: check
-regulator/filter: check
-fuel pump: check
-megajolt: currently undergoing harness-refurb (check)
-carbs: on route .


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

They've arrived!  

- three-hole progression bodies 
- .1 aux vents 
- .1 idle holders 
- 50 idle jets 
- .5 emulsion tubes 
- 142 main jets 
- chokes bored out to ~36 by the look of them (unmarked). 

I haven't checked the pumps yet, but they're side-shooters vs. the emissions downwards ones. These are an honest-to-goodness set of unbastardized DHLA40s. I can't wait to put them on and start tuning! The jets in them are already close to what will work for my engine, but I'll have to get some smaller chokes, since I rarely rev above 6000. This is going to be fun!


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

-45 pumps. 

Somebody liked having a rich acc pump shot :laugh:. 

Had a terror moment while disassembling the pump mech tonight, as I watched the spring go flying past my face and over my shoulder. Found it, luckily, so I've decided not to take the other carb apart, lol. 

These were clearly on some sort of engine that flowed a lot more air than I'll ever need, so I'm now trying to decide if I should upgrade to a 16v instead of buying jets/chokes to fit my 8v...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got my 132 mains, and some 33mm chokes, so I'm ready to go. Re-plugged the injector holes tonight (pennies and silicone), cleaned up some old exhaust studs to use on the manifold, and as soon as I can figure out a way of coming clean to the wife about the 'new' carbs that suddenly appeared...I'll do the fuel pump swap .


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Going in tonight. 
Everyone loves pictures...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Getting fired up tonight .

Had some fuel pump issues last night, during the install. I'm using a NAPA generic 5.5-9psi pump, with a pre-filter, and a Malpassi filter king FPR. When the pump was first engaged, fuel POURED from the regulator's filter bowl. I was PO'd to say the least, but decided that trying to find the problem was better than tossing my ratchet across the street in frustration. I think the O-ring was bunched or something along those lines, because after a quick inspection/reassembly of the FPR, everything is leak free. They come pre-set for 3.5psi, and thanks to the filter bowl, the pulses from the pump are eliminated. The gauge is as steady as a rock in a rainstorm .

Tuning these is going to be a new experience for me, since my last set were emissions carbs. These will tune more like a set of webers, so I can pull the emulsions/mains/airs out and go for a drive on the idles to see where they peter off .


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's alive...and holy crap it's loud. I upgraded to a 4-1 header and 2.25" exhaust during the 'rebuild', and it's made a hell of a difference in sound. As well, there is a massive 'tick' in the head, hopefully it goes away...but I think I need to be prepared to rebuild the engine. It took quite a long time to get the oil pressure back up to snuff, might be time for new bearings and lifters.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

:thumbup:


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hey Don! 
I'm torn...I hate the look of filters, but don't want to drive with earplugs in...


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

personally i would run filters. im takin the rabbit to a big vw show ( pacific waterland ) here in oregon this sunday. just gonna show it. it is running very well. ill probably dyno it here soon. good luck with the new dells! keep us posted.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah, I suppose I'll 'filter' it, just need to find some that I like I guess. I live in the boonies, so gravel roads are a reality at times.

Got the carbs synched last night (using a tool that EVERY carb owner should own: Carbtune. Big :thumbup: to Mr. Candm for that  ), the throttle response is insane compared to the emissions Dells I had before. The jetting must be pretty close to spot on, I'm at 3.5 turns out of the idle screws (fine thread), and hitting 12.5 AFR at cold idle. I'm guessing that once it's warm I can dial it back half a turn and call it a day. Haven't had a chance to take it out on the road yet, due to lacking a proper valve cover (oil pouring out onto my manifold/headers  ).

Good luck with the show Don! I'm sure you'll clean up...your car is MINT :beer:.


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

i just switched to this style filter:








they're not anywhere as cheap as you would think from looking at them, but they flow a lot more air than the ones i had before: 

they actually made so much of a difference that my previously ok jetting now has a bad lean spot


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've considered those, but my horns are not actually the 'proper' ones for the carbs. They're some hacked-up TWM (or other ITB manu) ones, and have a HUGE entry point. Easily a good 20mm wider than standard horns for a 40mm carb . I either have to buy new horns (ouch), or remove them completely to run a filter setup.


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

i'm pretty sure something on here will be big enough:
http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/group.asp?GroupID=AIRHORNFILTER
assuming they will fit your style of horn.
i have the standard horns for 45mm, and they measure 2.53" at their tip... i still had to use quite a bit of silicon sealant to make their 2.5" filters fit snugly.


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

I got these from Weber/redline they have lots of sizes and were fairly cheap


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got some Ramair filter socks on the way (the dual kind), should be in next week.

I also took my car for a long-overdue spin today. WOW I've missed my car... . I'm too used to the soft hydro clutch and 5 speed box in my B3 wagon daily, I felt sooooo out of place, lol. It idles and cruises at just the right AFRs, but it DEFINITELY needs the 142 mains that the setup came with. At WOT, I'm seeing 15's...but it hauls ASS .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got my RamAir filters, I have to say that it was one of the best overseas transactions I've ever had...and I buy all my carb stuff in the UK. I did the 'buy it now' on eBay, and right in their ad they say not to email them due to the volume of mail they get. They give a phone number and say not to be shy. Well, after a few days, I gave them a call (from work, HA!  ) and was greeted by the cheeriest guy ever. He was super friendly and we shot the **** for a while, lol. Hooked me up with the tracking number, and a few days later they showed up in my mailbox. This was, again, about a week and a half. I can get stuff from overseas faster than from the USA? This boggles my mind, but hey...I'm not going to complain .

Yet another company added to my list of favorite places to get carb stuff from: JSRaid (or ramair-filters on eBay). I'll get some pics up soon, but hey...they're just filters .


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## idrivemyself (Mar 7, 2003)

Nice new setup. :thumbup:

Have you had to alter the ignition map as a result?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I haven't re-tuned yet, I'm not sure what the car will behave like with the larger chokes and shorter/richer transition phase. I'm going to tune for filters this time around, which might actually be very irritating, lol.

From my test drives...it feels a lot more responsive while going from cruise to WOT, and I actually experienced a bit of torque steer while going from a roll at a stop. Not a lot, mind you, and my tires are hockey pucks...but it wasn't there before .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yeah...not sure I like filters at all. It used to be two pumps, crack the throttle, and VROOM. Now that same process results in waaaaaaaaay too much fuel. I'll reserve full judgement until I actually get to drive the car for an extended period of time. I can trust my fuel system this time around, so I'm very certain that it's not a fuel-pressure or needle-related incident either. The filters choke down the air intake just too much IMO.

Good thing I'm running counterflow .


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

yeah, that is nice... less chance of debris in there... no "ram-air" effect at speed... but of course, it's also not as pretty as a 16v


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

The 8v vs. 16v debate, ah how I love thee, :laugh:.

I like the simple old 8v, can't help it .


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

nah, i won't debate it for real. i've heard the numbers that can be had out of a high-revving 8v, and the 16v has its flaws.
but i have a 16v and i love it, so i have to stand up for it a little


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've had 16vs in the past, and I dig them too...but right now, I'm happy with my 8v. I'm not after power, if I was I wouldn't be N/A :laugh:. 

Besides, switching to 16v would mean more work, and I'm having a hard time justifying (to the wife) the work I've put into my 8v .


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## sump scraper (Apr 13, 2008)




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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

love it. love the color too. How do the brakes feel without the servo?


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## sump scraper (Apr 13, 2008)

like crap..lol
feels like i could stick my foot out the door and slow down faster


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## junkyardjockey (Nov 11, 2001)

MK123GTi said:


> Figured id put up my set up. Its a little different then others on here bit it is very effective
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 dood that manifold is SICK! is there any way possible you can make another one,but this time make it to fit a 16v head instead??? that would totally rock! Thanks!


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Wow, there's some really cool stuff here!! 


Here's what I'm building.. If you want specs, let me know.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I like it, ABF?
Modded diesel side mount?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got bored and decided to fire up the car today. It's a mild day, only -5*C in the garage, so it wasn't too bad. Had to hook the daily up to the rabbit though, it wouldn't go without jumper cables. Cranked open the chokes, squeezed the starter, and it fired to life first try-ish! Idled like a dream, although it was VERY cranky, lol. Revved it up a few times to check a modded tach driver circuit on the stock cluster, let it run for a few minutes, then came back into the house.

Turns out I'm still bored


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

I figure this as good a place as any to ask this question-

Has anyone ever seen a multi-carb progress setup on a VW? Something like the rodders run. I am building a Caddy on an Old School Rod/VW theme and I thought it would be cool to use 3 ICT's on a custom mani. Set it up on a slide linkage where runs on one carb until part throttle and then the other two open. I really not looking for top performance... I just want the multi-carb look. I want people to go "WUT?" when they see three air cleaners poking out through the hood! 

Inspiration










Open to any and all thoughts.

My truck-


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

B4S said:


> I like it, ABF?
> Modded diesel side mount?


KR. And yes, Diesel side mount.

This is a full top-to-bottom build.

Head:

-ST HD valve springs w/Ti retainers.
-ST .05mm O/S valves, reduced stem inlets, swirl ground exhausts.
-Lightweight INA OEM lifters.
-Head extensively P+P.
-TT 276 cams (haven't actually bought them yet.. Haha.
-45 DCOEs w/32mm chokes. Redline manifold.
-ARP head stud kit.

Block:

-JE 82.5mm pistons, 11:1 (measured and calculated) compression. Teflon piston buttons
-4340 144mm H beam rods w/ ARP L19 bolts.
-Knife edged crank, journals ground to lowest OEM tolerance.
-All internals, with clutch, (lightened) flywheel and accessory pulley dynamically balanced.
-Lightened IM shaft.
-Baffled (my own basic design) VW motorsport windage tray.
-INA ABF alternator kit, with some slight mods.


Been working on this for a fair while. It's just starting to come together now..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Where did you find the teflon buttons? I'm looking for a way of using some pistons meant for a press-fit rod in my VW floater rods. My machine shop is reluctant to shorten the pin, although they have no problems with cutting new circlip grooves. Buttons would make my life a LOT easier, and I don't currently have a lathe at my disposal .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

_WCHLVR_ said:


> I figure this as good a place as any to ask this question-
> 
> Has anyone ever seen a multi-carb progress setup on a VW? Something like the rodders run. I am building a Caddy on an Old School Rod/VW theme and I thought it would be cool to use 3 ICT's on a custom mani. Set it up on a slide linkage where runs on one carb until part throttle and then the other two open. I really not looking for top performance... I just want the multi-carb look. I want people to go "WUT?" when they see three air cleaners poking out through the hood!
> 
> ...


 I've thought about it, but not webers or anything like that. Demon makes a copy of the old Stromberg 97 called the 98, and they're readily available as a master/slave setup. Only the primary carb has full jetting capabilities, the secondary carb has only main jets, or something along those lines. They're nearly identical to the ones in your example pic.


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

B4S said:


> I've thought about it, but not webers or anything like that. Demon makes a copy of the old Stromberg 97 called the 98, and they're readily available as a master/slave setup. Only the primary carb has full jetting capabilities, the secondary carb has only main jets, or something along those lines. They're nearly identical to the ones in your example pic.


Yeah there are several folks starting to pop out their version of the vintage 2 bbls. Looks like I need to be the first to pull this off!


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

B4S said:


> Where did you find the teflon buttons? I'm looking for a way of using some pistons meant for a press-fit rod in my VW floater rods. My machine shop is reluctant to shorten the pin, although they have no problems with cutting new circlip grooves. Buttons would make my life a LOT easier, and I don't currently have a lathe at my disposal .


I made them myself. I should have added that i'm a machinist. Haha.

A machine shop should be able to turn some up for you....

I should have added... I've done all the work myself, bar the bone and hone, grinding the crank, the balancing and the head work. 

And nice work on what you've been up to. I have been reading all your stuff on tuning. Quite interesting.



EDIT: Here's a link to my aussie build thread... 

http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/f55/mk1-16v-project-11586-73.html


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Nice build! (up to page 20 so far, lol).

I REALLY have to get myself a lathe...


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

B4S said:


> Nice build! (up to page 20 so far, lol).
> 
> I REALLY have to get myself a lathe...


Hahaha, cool as.

If you want some info on how I did the buttons i can tell you what clearances I used etc. You can buy round teflon bar pretty cheap from any engineering plastic supplier.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yes please! 
I'm itching to assemble my 2.1 experiment, and buttons would be the last part of the puzzle. Getting shortened pins and machined circlip grooves seems to be more difficult than it should be.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

B4S said:


> Yes please!
> I'm itching to assemble my 2.1 experiment, and buttons would be the last part of the puzzle. Getting shortened pins and machined circlip grooves seems to be more difficult than it should be.


Ok.. Off the top of my head...

Total clearance on the length with the buttons fitted in the pin was about .75mm (0.030"). So if you have an 82mm bore, you want the length of the buttons fitted in the pin to total 81.25mm. That's not really critical, as long as you have SOME clearance and don't have way too much. Anywhere from 15 to 40 thousandths would be OK in my opinion. (I can work in metric and Imperial so i'm giving you both here)

Clearance on the head of the button in the pin hole was about 0.5mm (0.020"). So the diameter of the head of the button is 0.020" less than the diameter of the pin. Once again, not really critical, as long as you have clearance. I had a radius on the head smaller than the bore so that it would only contact in the centre of the button.

I put about a 1/16th inch rad in the corner for the shank of the button, that goes into the pin. The shank was about 1/2" long and i gave them about 0.001" clearance on the pin hole. The radius is just to give it some strength and remove a potential fracture point.

Here's a pic of one fitted..










I've got some pics of them when I initially made them in my thread I think.


I run a small engineering business on the side of my main job. If you want, you can send me a pin and tell me the bore diameter. I'll make you a set in exchange for say, something from JEGS i need for the Mk1 that's a reasonable trade..


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Done deal! I'll dig up an ABA pin and hit you up for shipping info as soon as I find one.

I love Jegs, already have an account there, lol. HUGE thanks!


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

B4S said:


> Done deal! I'll dig up an ABA pin and hit you up for shipping info as soon as I find one.
> 
> I love Jegs, already have an account there, lol. HUGE thanks!




No worries dude. I better start shopping then. And I think i'll need to buy some more telfon! Haha.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

No rush, it's winter here and my garage isn't insulated. Getting a piston out of a block is a frosty proposition right now . I'm in zero hurry, don't go out buying teflon just yet...it might be a few weeks (months, depending on weather) before I can get that pin and measurements to you.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

B4S said:


> No rush, it's winter here and my garage isn't insulated. Getting a piston out of a block is a frosty proposition right now . I'm in zero hurry, don't go out buying teflon just yet...it might be a few weeks (months, depending on weather) before I can get that pin and measurements to you.


Not a problem. When you're ready, PM me.


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

just want to jump in and say that i love this thread because of these kind of exchanges. it's here that i've found some of the most helpful and kind people on the vortex :thumbup:


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

notajetta said:


> just want to jump in and say that i love this thread because of these kind of exchanges. it's here that i've found some of the most helpful and kind people on the vortex :thumbup:




I'm hearing you, dude. I not long ago started reading through this thread. There's some really good info here.. It's what lead me to your Jetta thread (really cool stuff man). And I see you have the same probs I had with the Redline manifold that I had. I also even used 6mm stepped studs! haha. Got to thank my old man for being an Aircooled specialist.


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

thanks! i honestly feel honored by that 
...currently on page 64 of your build thread and learning a TON....


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

and i finally made it to the end... i used that exact same throttle linkage setup that you posted.... it's great, but it just BARELY clears the dipstick tube the way i have it, and it only clears my head's water outlet because i had one welded up for me that has a ton more clearance. you might know this already though 
what i think i could have done to give more clearance is reverse the direction of rotation of the throttle plates...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm glad this thread is proving to be useful, I like it too, but I'm a bit biased, lol. .

I've met a ton of great folks since page 1, carbs seem to make everyone very mellow and chill :thumbup:.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

notajetta said:


> and i finally made it to the end... i used that exact same throttle linkage setup that you posted.... it's great, but it just BARELY clears the dipstick tube the way i have it, and it only clears my head's water outlet because i had one welded up for me that has a ton more clearance. you might know this already though
> what i think i could have done to give more clearance is reverse the direction of rotation of the throttle plates...


I'm pretty sure reversing the throttle plates won't work. That would mess up the throttle progression (Fuel delivery wise) i'd imagine.

But good point dude. To be honest, i've lost my water outlet!! hahaha. It's been so long i've got no idea where I put it. If I can't find it, i'll have to make a new one.

I didn't think about the dipstick tube OR the water outlet. I figured the under-mounted throttle setup would be cleaner, but it might be better to fit a top mounted one..

Glad to hear my thread is of interest and help mate. 



B4S said:


> I'm glad this thread is proving to be useful, I like it too, but I'm a bit biased, lol. .
> 
> I've met a ton of great folks since page 1, carbs seem to make everyone very mellow and chill :thumbup:.


I think that's because people that are running carbs are doing it for the challenge, not to "be better than everyone else". I think most people that do this stuff are doing it for their own satisfaction. I know I am.

Plus, i mean, come on.. DCOEs look pretty damn cool!! haha.


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

Preen59 said:


> I'm pretty sure reversing the throttle plates won't work. That would mess up the throttle progression (Fuel delivery wise) i'd imagine.


you're right! i forgot about the progression holes.... gotta remember the progression holes... 

if you're going to be making a water neck anyways, go for the under-carb mount! it's the only thing that would need to be modified anyways. and yeah, it does look nice and clean with it tucked away.
of course, for what the darn thing costs, it is a bit tempting to polish it up and show it off


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

notajetta said:


> you're right! i forgot about the progression holes.... gotta remember the progression holes...
> 
> if you're going to be making a water neck anyways, go for the under-carb mount! it's the only thing that would need to be modified anyways. and yeah, it does look nice and clean with it tucked away.
> of course, for what the darn thing costs, it is a bit tempting to polish it up and show it off


Yeah ok. Well I might make my own to suit what I'm doing and go from there. Thanks for the heads-up on that!

If you don't mind me asking, roughly how much do these things cost and where did you get yours?

I've been meaning to buy this linkage setup ever since I saw it on my mate's 2.0l Pinto engine powered Escort..


















Hell yeah I made that tubular stainless strut brace!


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

thats a redline weber linkage that you can buy with 1 cable or 2. available through just about anyplace that deals with carbs. try www.dellorto.co.uk or www.piercemanifolds.com


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

yup, and redline has it as well:
http://www.redlineweber.com/html/application_guide/deluxe_cable_linkage_for_dcoe_ca.htm
(in under and over mounting styles... it's a different kit for each, so you can't just mount it however you want... although with your fabricating skills, _you_ probably can :thumbup: )
it's about $150 for the kit, btw.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

notajetta said:


> yup, and redline has it as well:
> http://www.redlineweber.com/html/application_guide/deluxe_cable_linkage_for_dcoe_ca.htm
> (in under and over mounting styles... it's a different kit for each, so you can't just mount it however you want... although with your fabricating skills, _you_ probably can :thumbup: )
> it's about $150 for the kit, btw.


Hahahahaha.. Thanks mate. 


I actually found a mob in australia that sell them...

http://www.weberperformance.com.au/product_info.php?cPath=3_74&products_id=267

Which is a bit of a relief. In the case of intricate parts like this, I'd rather buy the right bits and be done with it. I had considered making my own stainless linkage bar setup with brass and/or aluminium pivot arms etc, but for now the hidden type will be fine.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Tell me guys..... 


What pressure regulator are you using with your Webers/Delortos/Mikunis? 


I'm trying to decide which reg to get.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

i use a malpasi- filter king regulator. they make 2 kinds. the 1 i have is a small, flat pancake style one that comes with a small bracket on it which i removed so the filter is attached to the fuel line and not the car. it is small enough that it can just be attached to your fuel lines only and it looks good


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I use a Malpassi/Filter King too, the one with the attached filter bowl.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

they have been around along time. are simple and work


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

and they look very vintage-racecar cool :thumbup: 
wish i had one!


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks, guys! 

Going to my local Auto store now to see what's on offer..


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Just picked up a Holley 1-4psi FPR and 0-15psi fuel pressure gauge. 

$99.00 for both. (Trade disc.) Sweeeeet.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

FPR is ready to rock and/or roll..


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

looks good! mine was a little leaky... use plenty of thread sealant and keep an eye on it until you're sure it doesn't leak :thumbup:


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

notajetta said:


> looks good! mine was a little leaky... use plenty of thread sealant and keep an eye on it until you're sure it doesn't leak :thumbup:


 Cheers, man.  

Yeah i've done that. I use Loctite thread sealant. Really good stuff. If you use it properly, you don't need too much. Any excess I always clean away with a rag.. It attracts dirt and crap. Haha.


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## dcoerocco (Jan 10, 2011)

*84 scirocco 1964 40 webers daily driver for three years*











dont know if i did this right


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## junkyardjockey (Nov 11, 2001)

dcoerocco said:


> dont know if i did this right


pic didn't work.....


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## dcoerocco (Jan 10, 2011)

*84 scirocco 1964 40 webers daily driver for three years*










hopefully this worked


----------



## dcoerocco (Jan 10, 2011)

*84 scirocco 1964 40 webers daily driver for three years*

















:laugh:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Those are some well-worn carbs :thumbup:.


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

so ive seen people running a Honda radiator so there is less heat soak for the carbs. Is that radiator to cool a 16v 2.0? of course it would have to be a dual core radiator.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

max and tiny said:


> so ive seen people running a Honda radiator so there is less heat soak for the carbs. Is that radiator to cool a 16v 2.0? of course it would have to be a dual core radiator.


I'm after one myself. '00 Civic is "apparently" the go. Got my old man on the hunt for a S/H one with a fan shroud. If it looks the goods, I'll chuck some pics and part No's up.


----------



## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

i know go-auoworks makes a nice radiator with slim fan and shroud. mismoto makes a 3 1/2" dual core one also


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

*don't mean to be a bother but.....*

well im doing a 16v swap with dual 40s in a mk1 and im stuck on wiring in my msd soft touch ive spend too many hours trying to get spark and getting nothing. im running a saab dizzy, i finally called it quits when i got power on my test light on both sides of the coil. im really not too good with words and explaining things but any help would be great and if anyone can solve my problem ill throw you some buck via paypal:thumbup:


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## dcoerocco (Jan 10, 2011)

on my 16v 40 weber swap i use all stock vw 16v knock sensor ignition. it has worked great. if u want to try that i can send u the wiring diagram. its very simple and works great. i tried msd first and hated it.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

yes that would be awesome, and i would still run the saab dizzy with that? also i assume the stock 8v ignition (ecu whatever u want to call it ) is still not use


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

can anyone else help me out ?


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Are you sure you have it wired up correctly?

There's a couple of wiring diagrams floating around on here by Big Caddy, etc...


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

i like the knock sensor idea, have done a search trying to find some info on how to wire it up and got nothing, so if anyone know it be a great help car is a 83 rabbit gti


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

well im about to take to car to a shop to get wired up:facepalm: id much rather pay someone on here to help me out so i know the money is going to good use can some anyone help me


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## dcoerocco (Jan 10, 2011)

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l484/dcoerocco/knocksensordiagram16v.jpg

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l484/dcoerocco/KnockSensorDiagramII.jpg

let me know if this helps


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?424779


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Dammit, I' m trying to order jets and completely spaced on recording the airs on the main stack. Fack it all to heck! 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Tapatalk


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

^LLS - i just did the same thing last night. guess i'll be lining up a few to drill out.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm recording my jetting here so that I never forget what I'm running again, lol. 

- .1 aux vents 
- .1 idle holders 
- 50 idle jets 
- 45 pumps 
- .5 emulsion tubes 
- 132 main jets 
- 33 chokes 
- 200 airs (finally went out and checked) 

I definitely think I'll need to either switch to smaller airs to richen it up top where it was going waaaaaaaaaaaaay lean, or put in the 142 mains. It makes no sense to me how a 1.8 8v with a mild cam and no headwork could possibly require 142s...but hey, if it works, it works. I'm certainly not going to mess around with emulsion tubes, unless I can find a set for cheap. The .5s I'm running now should be perfect for just about anything I put them on IMO.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

oh yea. i keep an online log of my Volvo 2.1 8v rocking 40mm heres what i've been driving on for 2 years now 

36mm choke 
#1 vent 
160 main jet 
180 air corrector ...200 if i'm heading out more then 150 mile trip... 230way too at 3100 rpm 
60 idle jet 
38 pump jet 
150 needle valve 
95 starter jet 
#3 start tube 
#11 E-tube 
7.5 gram [email protected] 
3.5 psi fuel pressure (for some reason loves 4 psi) 

4-6k rpm make sweet sweet sounds 


...my old 1.8 16v, i used 142 mains.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

i should mention i'm using Dells code - C


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

C...that isn't an emission code is it. What's the reasoning with the 11 tubes? It must run well, if it's been two years...just surprised to see emissions tubes in there.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Tapatalk


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

oh it runs great. i had 5s and 10s using 8.5 gram floats but sumfin just wouldnt jive. Its a blast to drive from TN to D.C.... especially right around knoxville and bristol with the elevation changes. 30mpg. At most advance and 93 octane and 4 psi seeing 21mpg, even with using mostly WOT. 

they were set up as exact clones of the esprite turbos. cause it was turbo at one time the 5s worked perfect in that configuration..


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

she runs!!! 

well got in the knock sensor ignition toke only mins to put in:thumbup: and with a few key turns she came right to life


thank you to everyone to who helped me out


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

awesome! good work :thumbup:


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## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

rubber-side-down said:


> she runs!!!
> 
> well got in the knock sensor ignition toke only mins to put in:thumbup: and with a few key turns she came right to life
> 
> ...


:beer: post up some pics


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

next time i go out i get a video:thumbup: 

got a question for those running the 16v knock box how did u guy adapt the wot switch pic would be a plus:thumbup: thanks


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## dcoerocco (Jan 10, 2011)

congratulations :thumbup: now the real fun begins


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

dcoerocco said:


> on my 16v 40 weber swap i use all stock vw 16v knock sensor ignition. it has worked great. if u want to try that i can send u the wiring diagram. its very simple and works great. i tried msd first and hated it.


Hey, man! I'd be curious to check out your knock sensor wiring diagram. I'm going to be running this on my carb'd ABA in a MK1 and have found conflicting wiring info. Thanks!


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

rubber-side-down said:


> next time i go out i get a video:thumbup:
> 
> got a question for those running the 16v knock box how did u guy adapt the wot switch pic would be a plus:thumbup: thanks



same here?....i want to run the idle and wot switch, took this from a digi 8v. anyone have any ideas on mounting....pics would be of most help....:beer:


idle and wot switch from digi 8v to tps on r1 carbs...???


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> C...that isn't an emission code is it. What's the reasoning with the 11 tubes?


also, i keep seeing reference to "C" to being non-emission- But the model "C" comes out the box with #11 E tubes.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting. How many progression holes are there? I had some late emissions C carbs with 6 holes, they were pretty sweet for cruising economy...but had a nasty off-cruise flatspot.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Tapatalk


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

6 total. 5 small, one large. no flat spots noticed with the #11s. noticed it when switched out to the #5, so i switched back.

heres an old vid on the dyno using 32mm chokes... completely stock 300+k motor
http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g301/woodrowstar/House of Brick/?action=view&current=MOV04414.mp4 type in: ducksauce


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> same here?....i want to run the idle and wot switch, took this from a digi 8v. anyone have any ideas on mounting....pics would be of most help....:beer:
> 
> 
> idle and wot switch from digi 8v to tps on r1 carbs...???



i got it....idle and WOT


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> i got it....idle and WOT


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Svedka said:


> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?424779


Thank you, even though I missed this before. This is a different diagram than the one here:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4647341-Switching-to-Bike-Carbs.-Heres-a-write-up!/page6

People were having issues with the one posted above, I'll have to spend some time and compare the two, now.

*edit: Checked out both, one from the Bike Carb thread is missing the main power feed. The yellow wires are connected to the boxes/coil, but not to a power source.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yorgerg said:


>


its finished idle and wot switch


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Anyone wanna trade out some air correctors? looking for some 150 or 160s. i have a handful of 180, 200, 230 

Dells


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Crap, all i've got left are 200+ 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Tapatalk


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

here i glimpse at my project. ABF MK1 4 door


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Solex or Mikuni?

It's warming up slightly here...I'm so tempted to go fire up the car just to hear the carbs. Winter sucks .


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## max and tiny (Apr 27, 2010)

B4S said:


> Solex or Mikuni?
> 
> It's warming up slightly here...I'm so tempted to go fire up the car just to hear the carbs. Winter sucks .


Italian Solex 40's


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> Solex or Mikuni?
> 
> It's warming up slightly here...I'm so tempted to go fire up the car just to hear the carbs. Winter sucks .


say what?? mine's a daily.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

For some reason, my wife doesn't enjoy the idea of getting into a slammed 28 year old car running dual carbs, when it's -25*C out, lol. That usually means it's -40*C with the windchill and the roads will be heavily salted . I drive a normal car in the winter...heated seats and radio are awesome, lol.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Tapatalk


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

30 year old car 36mm chokes with a 32 year old driver 365 days a year... ITS ADVENTURE TIME










..the only pain in the but is putting in booster and car seats in the rear of a car never designed for them. lol


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I wish .
The winters here can be brutally cold/damp, and no matter how well prepared...something always breaks. If I can find something old enough (pre-87 = no emissions testing), soon enough in the summer, I can prep it for the coming winter and cross my fingers.

Or I can wuss out and replace the B3 Wagon with something made in the 21st century. Haven't decided yet.

God I miss playing with the carbs on my car .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Anyone tried water injection with carbs?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

woodrowstar said:


> Anyone tried water injection with carbs?


it would stop running....water injection is commonly used on super turbo engines to lower compression. cant imagine how the carbs would run if you injected water into them. unless you are using water to cool the carbs in the summer and heat them in the winter to prevent icing.

while sticking to the carb diet thread started putting my intake together using the alumiweld and mapp gas


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Uh, actually, it is very useful on naturally aspirated engines, especially the ones with high compression ratios. It does not lower compression, it prevents detonation by lowering combustion chamber temperatures (in the case of pure water being injected anyway). It's used with great success since WWII to prolong the life of hard-working engines (was originally used on airplanes).

I've never used it, but I have considered it.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

yorgerg said:


> cant imagine how the carbs would run if you injected water into them.


To run even further compression/timing then 93 will allow. - maybe i'm not using the correct term. i'll have to do some google monster searching. ^yeah, B4 gets it. Plus there is a crap ton of elevation changes around here.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Found example: 
http://www.aquatune.com/aquathrust_order.html


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

so does anyone have pictures the the wot switches adapted to ther carbs


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

In regards to water injection, look up Devil's Own. They have some CHEAP systems, and a forum (complete with NA information).


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

rubber-side-down said:


> so does anyone have pictures the the wot switches adapted to ther carbs


For what reason? Everything I've read indicates the WOT switch is for CIS full throttle enrichment circuit. Only the idle switch should be needed to even out the ignition curve at idle.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I think there is also a 'hidden' feature of the WOT switch, since it is part of the knockbox harness, and not the fueling. I'm convinced that it either kills the knock sensor above a certain RPM point to account for valvetrain noise, or it defaults to a WOT timing map instead of going off a part-throttle one. This is kinda complex for early VW management though, so I'm just guessing.

I ran mine without the switches, and the only thing I hated was the fact that in order to get the idle timing where I like to set it for carbs (10-12*) to improve off-idle transition and keep the progression holes covered, I had to adjust the dizzy itself. This meant my WOT ignition was now too far advanced, and the knock sensor would end up pulling timing. I dynoed at 105whp/119tq with a knockbox ignition (no switches), on a dual carbed 1.8 8v, running a 1.5" exh and neuspeed 256* cam...so it doesn't seem to need them at all, power-wise.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

cool bean thanks for the answer :beer:


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

B4S said:


> Uh, actually, it is very useful on naturally aspirated engines, especially the ones with high compression ratios. It does not lower compression, it prevents detonation by lowering combustion chamber temperatures (in the case of pure water being injected anyway). It's used with great success since WWII to prolong the life of hard-working engines (was originally used on airplanes).
> 
> I've never used it, but I have considered it.


interesting...i have heard of water injection on f/i engines just not on n/a engines. suppose i should shut my trap and go do more reading......thanks for the info, very courious now on how that works without giving up hp...:beer:


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> For what reason? Everything I've read indicates the WOT switch is for CIS full throttle enrichment circuit. Only the idle switch should be needed to even out the ignition curve at idle.


using the idle and wot switch off a 92 8v. from my understanding, at idle it sends a sig to ecm to limit fuel for economy, and at wot increase fuel. as well as to the ignition system for timing, to retard at idle, and advance at wot as far as possible before engine starts to ping.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

B4S said:


> I think there is also a 'hidden' feature of the WOT switch, since it is part of the knockbox harness, and not the fueling. I'm convinced that it either kills the knock sensor above a certain RPM point to account for valvetrain noise, or it defaults to a WOT timing map instead of going off a part-throttle one. This is kinda complex for early VW management though, so I'm just guessing.
> 
> I ran mine without the switches, and the only thing I hated was the fact that in order to get the idle timing where I like to set it for carbs (10-12*) to improve off-idle transition and keep the progression holes covered, I had to adjust the dizzy itself. This meant my WOT ignition was now too far advanced, and the knock sensor would end up pulling timing. I dynoed at 105whp/119tq with a knockbox ignition (no switches), on a dual carbed 1.8 8v, running a 1.5" exh and neuspeed 256* cam...so it doesn't seem to need them at all, power-wise.


so is it safe to say that in using both idle and wot switches that youd have a better idle and better top end? how would this system compare to using the vac advance dizzy setup?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

You would have a better idle with the idle switch, yes. When it clicks the switch as the TB closes, it stops listening to the vacuum signal for it's idle ignition data, and runs off a set value (6*  ). The WOT switch, I have no idea. I did not use it, and I dynoed quite well for a system without it, so I cannot say for certain that it does stop listening to the KS when engaged. On supreme gas, it seems to do quite well without it .


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

B4S said:


> You would have a better idle with the idle switch, yes. When it clicks the switch as the TB closes, it stops listening to the vacuum signal for it's idle ignition data, and runs off a set value (6*  ). The WOT switch, I have no idea. I did not use it, and I dynoed quite well for a system without it, so I cannot say for certain that it does stop listening to the KS when engaged. On supreme gas, it seems to do quite well without it .


sweet...im gonna run with it and see how it does. give updates as i go....:beer:


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

Sorry i have no other info on this but they say a picture is worth a thousand words....


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sha-WING!


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

impulse byer said:


> Sorry i have no other info on this but they say a picture is worth a thousand words....


Did the same with mine, less valves and smaller turbo. it was haggard up nicely.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Spring is imminent...sorta. I'm getting myself an early birthday present, just snagged a set of jet drills on Ebay for $20 less than they usually go for, and ordered two sets of 150 airs from Alfa1750 (ebay again) for sacrificing .

I've got to extend my idle/cruise circuit above 3500, so I may need to get some different idle holders as well, but I'll start by playing with the airs and see what happens. The minute I can get my car out of the garage, I'm pulling the main jet stack and going for a drive on just the idles to see where it peters out.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

another good source of metric bits harbor freight item# 94606. or Nos brand bits for their jets. they have a 60 piece metric set.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Good tip, I completely forgot about metric hobby drills. I've wanted a reamer for a while now, so I could go for in-between sizes. They usually go for $70 on eBay, so I jumped on a set for $50. Also have a jet gauge on the way, there's no way I'll be stuck for jets this season .


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

almost there...


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> almost there...


Wow! That screams hood clearance issues.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yes i know it will have to be cut down...this is not the final result i was testfitting because id gotten the manifold finished. i still have to mount filters and test fit into the car. im sure yes i will need to cut the runners and hoses down more. as for the angle, this durafix easy weld stuff is rock solid in the pics above, but if i need to reajust the angle due to the engine position in the car, i can reheat this stuff with the mapp gas and reposition the runners.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

Mine's getting there, slowly...


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

^^^looking awsome dude...inspiration...:beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yay! Got my jets, jet drills, and jet gauge set all on the same day. I love getting car parts in the mail .

Now if it would only stop snowing...


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

hey what alt setups you guys using?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm using a stock 8v V-belt setup.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> Yay! Got my jets, jet drills, and jet gauge set all on the same day. I love getting car parts in the mail .
> 
> Now if it would only stop snowing...


awesome... now come help jet this 16v volvo engine. lol


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

For some dumb reason I thought you were in Cali, so I was getting ready to say I'd be right there. Since I see now you're in Maryland...that's not as exotic, so I'm not sure, lol.

Maybe when it gets warmer :laugh:.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

hey for you guy running 16v in your mk1 what all parts are need to swap over the linkage? ive worn out the search app on here and right when i think i found my answer i find something saying different. any help would be great!! right now ive only got 2nd and 4th gear if someone pushes on the linkage from the out side itll pop in gear but wont on its own.

i have hear in one thread almost everything about the linkage gets replace and then in another just the gear selector and the relay lever so im just at a lost


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

yorgerg said:


> ^^^looking awsome dude...inspiration...:beer:


Thanks, man!



rubber-side-down said:


> hey what alt setups you guys using?


INA Engineering ABF serpentine kit.


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## Preen59 (Oct 18, 2008)

rubber-side-down said:


> hey for you guy running 16v in your mk1 what all parts are need to swap over the linkage? ive worn out the search app on here and right when i think i found my answer i find something saying different. any help would be great!! right now ive only got 2nd and 4th gear if someone pushes on the linkage from the out side itll pop in gear but wont on its own.
> 
> i have hear in one thread almost everything about the linkage gets replace and then in another just the gear selector and the relay lever so im just at a lost


Have you gone from 4spd to 5 spd? If so you need different linkage rods. You can buy a 5spd linkage rod set from Mk1 autohaus and probably numerous other places...

Setting the shift up can be very tricky if you've never done it before..


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> For some dumb reason I thought you were in Cali, so I was getting ready to say I'd be right there. Since I see now you're in Maryland...that's not as exotic, so I'm not sure, lol.
> 
> Maybe when it gets warmer :laugh:.


lol. i'm actually in Tennessee, cant get vortex to update. Thas no better with all te dang on flooding and tornados.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

OOOh, damn. If only you were in Georgia. That's my winter cutoff for 'travel for tuning' . Maybe if you can meet me at the border .

Just picked up a 94 Jetta for a daily driver, and am considering swapping to some emissions Dells once it's past the emissions testing. I'd have two years to enjoy it as a carbed car before having to switch back for testing again. I've got a CIS-E ignition setup that would go perfectly with them .


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

rubber-side-down said:


> hey for you guy running 16v in your mk1 what all parts are need to swap over the linkage? ive worn out the search app on here and right when i think i found my answer i find something saying different. any help would be great!! right now ive only got 2nd and 4th gear if someone pushes on the linkage from the out side itll pop in gear but wont on its own.
> 
> i have hear in one thread almost everything about the linkage gets replace and then in another just the gear selector and the relay lever so im just at a lost


 Shouldn't need to change anything, as was said above, unless you're going from 4 spd to 5 spd. MK1 linkage is MK1 linakge, and MK2/3 is MK2/3 linkage. You can put an 020 from a MK3 into a MK1 and you just need to use the MK1 mounts and linkage to make it work, pretty much. 

Here's all the various linkage parts: http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Transmission/185/1 

And the new bushing/rebuild kit: http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Transmission/186/1 

The deluxe rebuild kit includes pretty much all the rods and bushings you should need. Otherwise, it's just trial and error. Sounds like you have the main selector rod either pushed in too far, or not in far enough by the steering rack.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Got to hear my carbs for the first time in 6 months last night. Took me a hell of a long time to get it going (cold oil, cold atf, old starter, weak battery, etc), but it finally fired up. I had to tweak the mixture screws a bit to get it to the right mix, but it idled smooth and even (for the most part). I know it's smarter to run filters, but I'm just not digging the look/muffle of them. I'm half tempted to get myself another set of long horns and put the filters on the shelf until fall. 

Maybe I should just call them 'Mousegaurds' :laugh:. 

Gonna need to re-gasket too, they got pretty dry over the winter. I could see the top cover and banjo gaskets plump up with fuel just after turning on the pump.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

almost there...:facepalm:


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

I'm so looking forward to hearing my rocco fire up the year new header and some new intake bits i made up 










TT race:heart: 









This pic reminds me i also have alot of cleaning


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

love that throttle linkage :thumbup: 
what is it called? / where can i find it?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

I see what you did there on that intake manifold.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Shouldn't need to change anything, as was said above, unless you're going from 4 spd to 5 spd. MK1 linkage is MK1 linakge, and MK2/3 is MK2/3 linkage. You can put an 020 from a MK3 into a MK1 and you just need to use the MK1 mounts and linkage to make it work, pretty much.
> 
> Here's all the various linkage parts: http://www.germanautoparts.com/Volkswagen/Rabbit/Transmission/185/1
> 
> ...


 hey thanks, would you be able to give me a run down pn how to adjust it thanks again


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

notajetta said:


> love that throttle linkage :thumbup:
> what is it called? / where can i find it?


You are asking about mine? 



woodrowstar said:


> I see what you did there on that intake manifold.


LOL like it? I made it all at work(old job) to cheep to buy it so i fabed it all on midnight shift using scrap(free) and got paid to make it. I miss that part of the job but nothing else.

I fired it up today(B4S don't listen) First shot even after not draining the carbs from last October when i parked it.

Horns?









Don't mind the dirt or alt bracket are will be fixed soonish.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

BOOOOO to easy fireups  :laugh:. I swear, I have to find a starter from a diesel auto, it turns over so slow, bah.

I'd go with the longer horns, but that's just my preference. I want to see if I can cram 70mm ones on mine .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

That's it, the filters are coming off. It's a pain in the ass to start without the cold-start chokes, which I am not using due to it fouling the linkage. It took much less time to start it up today, but still had to boost it, sigh. I think I need a new battery


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

impulse byer said:


> You are asking about mine?


yup! :thumbup:


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

All of it was made by me. i can send you some pic's if you want it wasn't very hard.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> That's it, the filters are coming off. It's a pain in the ass to start without the cold-start chokes, which I am not using due to it fouling the linkage. It took much less time to start it up today, but still had to boost it, sigh. I think I need a new battery


Damn damn damn James...lol.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ok...you lost me on that one, lol. James?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

its just my age and ethnicity showing.... _from when Mr. James Evans died on "Good Times"_
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKUwcCp7LPE


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ah, now I know what you're talking about. I grew up in the sticks, with only a couple of canadian tv channels...so I missed out on a lot of shows. I only got to see Good Times when the antenna hit that magical spot, and the weather was right. 38 years old over here.


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

Ive read the whole thread and theres so much info here its just awesome :thumbup: I went carb last year with a weber downdraft and recently pulled the engine and trans from my mk1 gti. There was a lot of work that needed done under the hood so I figured why not and picked up some sidedrafts. Now I dropped the engine back in last saturday and ended up with a bad intake leak around the crap plastic isolators with orings :banghead: Im still not 100% sure I fixed it completely, I think so but I like to double check myself. So Im gonna have a lot of questions really soon, and thanks :thumbup:


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

pigryder said:


> Ive read the whole thread and theres so much info here its just awesome :thumbup: I went carb last year with a weber downdraft and recently pulled the engine and trans from my mk1 gti. There was a lot of work that needed done under the hood so I figured why not and picked up some sidedrafts. Now I dropped the engine back in last saturday and ended up with a bad intake leak around the crap plastic isolators with orings :banghead: Im still not 100% sure I fixed it completely, I think so but I like to double check myself. So Im gonna have a lot of questions really soon, and thanks :thumbup:


in your mockup pick it doesnt show if you are using the spring ( thackery ) washers or the cosworth style cupwashers and rubber bushing. either way, they are both supposed to be tightened until ther is a certain gap. with the spring washers it is between the coils and the other is between the cup washers. i havent used the cosworth style but with the spring wahers and the plastic, o-ring soft mounts,what i have found that works, is to put all the nuts on until hand tight,then turn them all 1 turn, 1 at a time, until they get tight- not torqued. at this point the coils are just about tight or touching eachother. then back them all off 1/2-3/4 of a time.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

candm said:


> in your mockup pick it doesnt show if you are using the spring ( thackery ) washers or the cosworth style cupwashers and rubber bushing. either way, they are both supposed to be tightened until ther is a certain gap. with the spring washers it is between the coils and the other is between the cup washers. i havent used the cosworth style but with the spring wahers and the plastic, o-ring soft mounts,what i have found that works, is to put all the nuts on until hand tight,then turn them all 1 turn, 1 at a time, until they get tight- not torqued. at this point the coils are just about tight or touching eachother. then back them all off 1/2-3/4 of a time.


sorry. 1/2-3/4 turn and leave it


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

thanks man! I actually read that way earlier in the thread and thats how I fixed my intake leak

I didnt have the carbs bolted up in two of the pics, I didnt want them on there when putting the engine back in, just didnt want to risk anything happening to them 

Im using the thackery washers, like I said I think I have the leak sealed up now

still have so much to do under the hood, and I gotta get to a buddies house and grab a knockbox setup... thanks B4S for that heads up :thumbup:

I have a manual and syc coming tomorrow so Im hoping to make some headway this weekend and the jetting will start


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

ah dang it...i got bit by the hard to start B4S bug today..... actually i think it was vapor lock. Its warm as heck down here today. Went out for drive, despite doctors orders (blown knee tendons), went back to the house as i forgot sumfin, came back out..stupid car turned over but it seemed fuel and timing outta wack. But, i was smart enough long time ago to wire in a manual switch to the fuel pump relay. Popped the cap of teh fuel filler to vent the tank. (the early volvos are not vented)- *BLAM* !! started right up. well, the motor did cool a bit while i was figuring out whether it was ignition or fuel related. 

*PSA.... Get ready for the warm humid weather of teh summer.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

HA! That'll learn ya for making fun of me .
It wasn't until I got those damn filters, that the car became harder to start (than what I was used to). I want 70mm horns anyway, no room for filters with those .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Filters removed, float charger on the battery, and 70mm horns in my future .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Aw Snap! found my fuel pressure gauge circa 1977 has finally died. 7 psi, not so good.... darned leaky rich pig.


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

got some jets in the mail yesterday :thumbup:


oh and made a roadtrip to VA for some ats classics


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

Not finished yet but soon...


























Some trimming to do on the backing plate and sand the high build primer on the box but it's going to be nice and quiet for daily use. Plus now i can use the 2 1/2" stacks:beer:


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

Nice man I like it :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So I've been sitting on a rebuilt 9A for a while now, haven't really been sure what to do with it since my 8v runs so well. I wasn't thrilled with the $$$ they want for 16v manifolds now, especially considering they all seem to be of iffy quality. I got a DCOE intake flange in the mail last night though...hmmm .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

well, i have a couple of 16v manifolds. 3 to be exact. maybe you and i can work out a carb exchange program within "the all carb diet" ???


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm...I'm listening .
What do you need?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

...a single "H" body unloaded


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Darnit . The only Dells I have currently are the non-emissions on my car .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

any IDFs??


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Nope, I was an idiot and cleaned out a year ago when I (foolishly) went digi-1. Took it out after three weeks, and had to start my collection over again . I've only got junk currently.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

so, this isnt working...lol. what ya got. one man junk is another mans junk.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A bunch of disassembled Holley 5200 (weber 32/36 clones), some OEM 1.1 and 1.3 Solex 1bbls, a couple SU H4 bodies (painted!).

Like I said...junk, lol.


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

well guys Ive drivin the gti a few times, went with 130 mains and seems to be running pretty good
a buddy let me borrow his old school afg so Im gonna hook that up this weekend to see where Im at
it seems alittle lean at cruising speeds like 1/4 throttle and less


oh last week I drove it home, as soon as I got home it just died and I played hell getting it up the driveway, Im pretty sure my mr. gasket regulator took a ****, removed it completely and its been running great since


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Did a bit of tuning today, since my new cruising RPM is in the 3000 range (automatic). I pulled the main jet stacks out and went for a drive on my idles. As it turns out, the idles peter out waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay early, they have zero effect on cruise at all almost! I had to drill them out a bit, no clue what they are now. They were 50s, on a .1 holder. I figure I'll need a much richer idle holder and probably a 55 jet to stretch the progression out a bit further. I can't even begin to tune the mains yet, since they're basically in full use at cruise right now . 

I've got some low mojo right now, sucks .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Add me to that list, Acc. Pump wont let up. I tried to adjust, broke teh freaking arm. Good thing for a swimming pool of parts laying around.


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

B4S said:


> Did a bit of tuning today, since my new cruising RPM is in the 3000 range (automatic). I pulled the main jet stacks out and went for a drive on my idles. As it turns out, the idles peter out waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay early, they have zero effect on cruise at all almost! I had to drill them out a bit, no clue what they are now. They were 50s, on a .1 holder. I figure I'll need a much richer idle holder and probably a 55 jet to stretch the progression out a bit further. I can't even begin to tune the mains yet, since they're basically in full use at cruise right now .
> 
> I've got some low mojo right now, sucks .


you know, my jetting has been "good enough" for the past year, but i'd like to dig into it a bit more and actually work on dialing it in more. would you be willing to throw out a little info? the idea is to pull out the main jets and see how far you can get (rpm-wise) before the transition to the mains? i'm guessing that it will just dramatically lean out at that point?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Yep, if you're on Webers or non-emissions Dells, that's how you do it. You should be able to get to your cruising RPM before it dies out. The mains should have very little effect on your part throttle cruise. Once you get the idle circuit stretched out to where you want it, then you put in a super small main air (150) and a super rich main (160ish). Go for a drive, and there will be a lean hole right after you get off the idles, then it will go super rich. That's when the mains come in. Start going with larger airs until the lean hole disappears, and then set your mains for proper air/fuel, and you're done .

This is the method that John at Aircooled.net advocates, and it works amazingly well :thumbup:.

**NOTE**: This will NOT work on emissions Dells, certain Mikuni PHH models, or the rare emissions Webers. These carbs draw their idle fuel from the main stack, instead of from a dedicated idle fuel channel. They need the super aerated fuel from the emulsion tubes to get the idle circuit going properly.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

*got a little problem havent check it out yet but......*

may someone can point me in the right direction just got my carbs all tune up at a local shop and before they were tuned car seems alot faster (i believe the carbs had been tune a little when i got them on my engine) is this just in my head or could something be wrong.



one other thing im experience al lost of all engine power in 5th gear


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

video?


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

rubber-side-down said:


> one other thing im experience al lost of all engine power in 5th gear


At WOT or cruising?


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

B4S said:


> Yep, if you're on Webers or non-emissions Dells, that's how you do it. You should be able to get to your cruising RPM before it dies out. The mains should have very little effect on your part throttle cruise. Once you get the idle circuit stretched out to where you want it, then you put in a super small main air (150) and a super rich main (160ish). Go for a drive, and there will be a lean hole right after you get off the idles, then it will go super rich. That's when the mains come in. Start going with larger airs until the lean hole disappears, and then set your mains for proper air/fuel, and you're done .
> 
> This is the method that John at Aircooled.net advocates, and it works amazingly well :thumbup:.
> 
> **NOTE**: This will NOT work on emissions Dells, certain Mikuni PHH models, or the rare emissions Webers. These carbs draw their idle fuel from the main stack, instead of from a dedicated idle fuel channel. They need the super aerated fuel from the emulsion tubes to get the idle circuit going properly.


:thumbup: you rock. looks like i'm going to have to add some jets to my "to buy" list.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm...the automatic does not make for a quiet drive. I'm not sure I'm a fan of extended periods of 3000 rpm cruising (80kph) with dual carbs, considering I'm 40kms (30 min) from the city at 100kph (60mph). I might be swapping to a single for a while, maybe I'll pick up a BFI kit and see how well it's jetted .


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

LOL Do it :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hm, the single downdraft option is no longer on their site.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

impulse byer said:


> At WOT or cruising?


anything more than cruising qnd itll die


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Eurocarb loves me right now, lol. Ordered some 31mm chokes, 45 and 50 idles (drilled out my current 50s), .2 idle holders, 140 airs, and should be getting my 75mm horns this week. Hopefully the smaller chokes will punch up the midrange a bit, to compensate for the sluggish feel of the auto when coming away from a stop or matting it while cruising. I'm not really a racer anymore, so I don't think I'll miss the power from 5000+. I've also got an 'O' grind camshaft (2500 torque peak), with 0* overlap (canadian spec Mk3 1.8 CL) I might re-install (used it before I got my nospeed 256*).

Next up...fixing the exhaust leak.


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

Looking for some larger idles and the only place I have found them yet is on ebay at 10.88 ea plus shipping


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

This is an awesome thread. :beer: I'm reading it through... up to page 11 so far. If I can't get my CIS-E tuned up without a crapload of parts, I'm ordering the K407 Weber kit. Wanted that kit since I first saw it over 10 years ago... always been a fan of old European engines with one venturi per cylinder. 

So I've got most of my shopping list together... been looking for the best price on the K407 kit, best price/type of fuel pressure regulator, ignition system add-on (going to use the knockbox with an add-on system like Mallory VI-AL or Jacobs Pro-Street), and tuning tools.

Couple questions...

1) What's everyone running for a pump & regulator setup? I'm leaning toward either A) existing in-tank pump with Filter King or Holley regulator... or B) PMO Pressure Control Unit (with existing CIS-E high-pressure pump and return line setup).

2) Where does one order a Colortune from? All the websites are UK... can I get one shipped to the US for a reasonable price? I want this thing even if I keep running CIS-E for the immediate future.

(FYI... car is a 1986 GTI 1.8 8v RD-code)


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Most of the good carb stuff is not going to come from North America, sorry to say. It's a different world over here. In NA, the Holley 4bbl is king, and is 'tuned' (loose definition, try reading a V8 forum...it's either main jets or power valves, no wonder 10mpg is the norm). Overseas, the weber sidedraft is the dominant carb of choice, and has been for decades. I deal with Dellorto.co.uk and fastroadcars.co.uk, and can get anything I want, for cheaper than here in NA, and it arrives in a week. I've never had a bad transaction with either of those two shops, and their customer service is top notch.

I got my Colortune from the UK, most of the carb companies are more than willing to ship to North America. It's a global economy now .

I'd recommend a Filter King regulator/filter. It's a bit pricey, but again...it's been standard motorsports equipment in the UK and Europe for a loooooooooooooong time. My fuel pressure has never been so stable .

As for fuel pump, I go to NAPA, get an electric pump from a 1979 Ford Courier for $~70 and call it a day. This makes for easy replacement if anything happens, since it's usually always in stock...gotta love the big 3!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

pigryder said:


> Looking for some larger idles and the only place I have found them yet is on ebay at 10.88 ea plus shipping


Try Dellorto.co.uk (otherwise known as Eurocarb). I get ALL my parts from them, super place to deal with. Their idles come out to $4.66 each . Shipping is always reasonable, and they provide a tracking # (Royal Air Mail) with every shipment. Always fast to respond too.

http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandi...o=DCOE-IDLE-JET&CategoryID=3&PartsectionID=58


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

General consensus as of the bike carb thread was a Carter P4070. I bought one myself to do my setup. The FPR seems to be a wildly varying thing. Some people get away with the Mr. Gasket FPR until it blows and over pressurizes the system. Some have better luck with those than others too though. I went the slightly more expensive way and got the Aeromotive Bypass FPR from summit. four ports on the sides and a return line on the bottom. The combo will run you around 200 plus but both are quality. It just comes down to your bottom line. What are you willing to spend? And do remember that while carbs alleviate your CIS problem that a poorly tuned Weber setup can be just as detrimental. :thumbup:


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks for the info. :thumbup:

Yeah... I like the quick install of the PMO unit, but the goal for this car is simplicity, and retaining an in-tank pump, big filter, high-pressure pump, accumulator, AND an FPR is hardly keeping things simple. Ditching the entire fueling setup and having one pump, one filter, and one regulator would be far more desirable.

I saw one of the nice Aeromotive bypass FPRs... pricey, but looks well-made. I like the look and street cred of the Malpassi/Filter King, but it doesn't have a bypass/return line. Not sure I like that aspect of it. Hmm... decisions, decisions.

Anyway, I'm still waiting for my tune-up parts to arrive. Told my wife I wouldn't be ordering the carb setup until I'd given the CIS-E a fair shake... so I have a lot of electrical diagnostics to go through this weekend. Been putting stickynotes on all the applicable sections of the Bentley manual so I can find all the tests faster. If the testing shows that the car needs anything over $100 that's specific to the CIS, I'm ordering carbs. (**crossing fingers and hoping the CIS is broke**)

Setting up the Webers doesn't scare me. Actually, it's kinda exciting. I probably have a similar sickness to B4S, though not to the same extreme.  I looooooove playing with mechanical things (much to my wife's chagrin).


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

One of the hardest things to shake, when going from EFI to carbs, is the thought that a return line is needed. 

It isn't.

All carb fuel pumps come with internal bypass, or shut-down, functions. This prevents the pump from providing fuel when it's not needed. If you're using a high-output, high pressure pump, then a bypass regulator is needed...but if you use a carb-specific pump, then no return line required.

When I first got into this whole carb thing (at the beginning of this thread, basically  ), I was using a carb pump AND a bypass regulator, just so I could keep my return line. I never had any luck keeping pressure at the carbs, it kept bleeding off. It was a nightmare. Once a much-carb-smarter man explained to me that the return line was not necessary...the lightbulb went on, lol. Smooth sailing ever since .

$200 for a regulator is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overkill, in a North American way IMO. I love my filter king, because it was $95 w/filter bowl. I would not hesitate to go back to a $20 Holley regulator though, worked just as well.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

a Chevy Pup fuel pump cost $40, comes with the filter and all clamps.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

B4S said:


> One of the hardest things to shake, when going from EFI to carbs, is the thought that a return line is needed.
> 
> It isn't.
> 
> ...


This is good to know. I'm definitely in the same boat... only cars I've personally owned have been EFI, and they all had return lines.... hence I had this ingrained thought that the return was necessary. Come to think of it, the carb'd V8s my Dad owned did not have returns.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

pigryder said:


> Looking for some larger idles and the only place I have found them yet is on ebay at 10.88 ea plus shipping


what size you looking for?


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

woodrowstar said:


> what size you looking for?


F11 60 or 65

And thanks guys!

And to add, if you read back a little my Mr Assket regulator took a **** only a few months old :banghead: I removed it completely and the car is running its best so far with further jetting required but Im getting there. Ive been having a hard time finding time to play with it right now and I just picked up a 6pt cage for the car so thats in the works and Im still waiting on my H&R race springs to add to my new Bilsteins 

Im running the Carter pump with a filter just outside the tank, no return line and I wired my pump to the existing power supply for my CIS pump so the pumps not running unless the engine is turning over. 

Damn I love this thread! Warm weather has finally set in so its tuning time :beer:


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

wait...you're running Webers?

this is the isuzu pump i run on the Volvo for the Dells. 
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CRT-P60504/ dont sweat summits rape of a price. local parts store sels tem at 40 a pop.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Any of you guys buy from Baconsdozen in the UK? They've got a Colortune kit including 12mm and 10mm adaptors for 35 pounds (about 58 USD) _including_ shipping to North America. I want either the adaptors or I'll need to buy the 12mm motorbike kit, because I also have an old Honda CL175 that needs the Keihins rebuilt and retuned... and it takes a 12mm plug.

I'm ordering a Colortune whether I wind up with Webers on the car or not... I want to be able to see whether the FI is giving me the correct mixture. The enginerd in me read the description of the Colortune and now this is a must-have tool.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

You'll love the colortune...it's so neat to see the burn


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

woodrowstar said:


> wait...you're running Webers?



yep got me some webers


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

vwgroundpilot said:


> Any of you guys buy from Baconsdozen in the UK? .


http://www.international-auto.com/index.cfm/fa/p/pid/3448/sc/35750


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Holy amazing service Batman! 

I ordered 31mm chokes, .2 idle holders, 45 idles, 50 idles, and 140 airs on tuesday evening, and they arrived today. This is from Eurocarb in the UK! TWO DAYS! I'm friggin' stoked! Now I can spend my weekend tuning instead of doing yardwork :laugh:.

Coupled with the 75mm horns, the 31mm chokes, and a 2" exhaust (soon to come), I think I'll have gotten my midrange back. The auto makes it feel soft due to the stall of the converter.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Yah see, this is why we need a carb exchange program... i have a ton of those laying in bins. ton o Dells parts.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm rebuilding my stock right now, I've got nothing to trade . I've got a long way to go until I get back to a useful level. It's tough to tune with only two sets of mains, two sets of 200 airs, and some drilled-out-and-unmarked idles, lol.

More mains and emulsion tubes are next on the list . I think I'd like to try some .8s and see what happens. They might be more useful for a street car like mine, running three-hole universals. I really miss my 6-hole "H"s, they were the perfect daily carb .


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Hmm... did a tune-up this weekend. New cap, rotor, plugs. New knock sensor (old one was disintegrating). Then I discovered that the idle switch on my TB had disintegrated... replaced it with a spare from the "parts cylinder head assembly" I keep laying around, and that fixed several of its idle and running issues. Now it's running much better... not sure if I should be elated or bummed. I'm still looking for an excuse to order the Weber setup, because I still want that sound, and the tuneability, and the simplified engine bay... :sly: Hmm... now I want something else on the CIS to break so I have an excuse to swap!


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

W00t! Ordered a Colortune last night from Baconsdozen in the UK... the response I received overnight says it's been shipped!  Can't wait to test it out... it'll also be a huge help when I rebuild and need to retune the carbs on an old Honda CL175 motorcycle I'm fixing up.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sweet! 

I've been bummed as ufck lately, work stuff, blah blah blah. Today I got to come home right after work instead of waiting for my wife, since she had a meeting to go to in the city. I decided to pull my carbs off to put in the new chokes and generally check the condition. I poked my way through it, had them on the bench, and wanted to peek at the progression holes. So I got down to look into the bores from the post-throttle side...cracked the throttle arm...and immediately got a face full of gasoline from the VERY healthy pump jets. Somehow this cheered me up, and I laughed for a good 5 minutes while I tried to keep the gasoline from melting the lenses of my glasses.

Being a dumbass is sometimes a good thing :laugh:.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

B4S said:


> Sweet!
> 
> I've been bummed as ufck lately, work stuff, blah blah blah. Today I got to come home right after work instead of waiting for my wife, since she had a meeting to go to in the city. I decided to pull my carbs off to put in the new chokes and generally check the condition. I poked my way through it, had them on the bench, and wanted to peek at the progression holes. So I got down to look into the bores from the post-throttle side...cracked the throttle arm...and immediately got a face full of gasoline from the VERY healthy pump jets. Somehow this cheered me up, and I laughed for a good 5 minutes while I tried to keep the gasoline from melting the lenses of my glasses.
> 
> Being a dumbass is sometimes a good thing :laugh:.


i did the exact same thing after installing my first set of new 45 webers. had an air leak and pulled the carbs off. had 1 carb held in my hands away from me looking at thebutterflies and for some stupid reason, flipped the throttle lever. i shot a perfect stream of gas right above each eye. dont recommend this trick


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So I may be on a carb break for a bit, but I DO have a cool project on the go with them .

Last summer, a friend in the military gave me a surplus Ultrasonic Bath they weren't using anymore. It's REALLY big, both carbs could fit easily, with room to spare. I may strip my current carbs down and give them a thorough cleaning, if I can figure out what solution to use in it. When they go back on, I want them to be fully rebuilt and cleaned. I want like-new, fresh-from-the-box condition .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> I want like-new, fresh-from-the-box condition .


 **standing in line**


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Dude, if it works out, count on it .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

So i got bored, so heres what happened. 
*swapped out the #5 e tubes back to #11 with #230 air. Of course, better throttle response and lack of fuel up top. Odd part- Rich as a dragster at idle now. Still trying to process why. 

My 750 mile trek yielded 21mpg. (4 speed no overdrive 4:10 gear at 4k rpm to keep up with traffic in 4th) For around town riding, poor mileage, thats why the 11's went in.


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## rubber-side-down (Feb 8, 2010)

what kinda filter/intakes are you guys running? reason why im asking is i'm running 2inch stacks on my dhla 40s right now and man are those carbs loud! and with my exhaust (tt race header and catless 2.5in exhaust) she's an attention getter


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

If its loud out the carbs, then you gotta it tuned right! I do not runs filters on my 242. 2 inch horns and a plexi deflector to keep leaves and diamonds outta the motor. Plus, I have a cowl induction type hood.


*_diamonds=rain_


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I never drove the car much with filters. My current stacks are 75 mm (3" ~ish). They're not on the car currently though.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

I'm gonna have to run mine with filters. It'll be a DD, or nearly so. Right now I'm dailying the Cagiva Gran Canyon I bought this past weekend (saved me $15 in gas this week already... it'll have paid for its insurance by mid next week). But yeah, with where I live and how I use the car, filters are a must.

So yeah, can't remember if I've updated y'all on my project status... used the Colortune I bought to figure out that one of the injectors is clogged and the other three are patterning poorly (that is an awesome tool!). Over $250 for new injectors... that exceeds my $100 threshold, so I'm gonna order the Weber kit. I'm just waiting to pull the trigger until I sell some things... my wife likes seeing me excited about projects, so she's cool with me buying toys, but the agreement is we have to meet our other obligations without accruing any debt. I have a parts list for the carb swap totaling around $1400, not including random hardware (hose clamps, hoses, fasteners, etc).

Gonna do the Weber K407 kit, Filter King regulator, use the stock in-tank pump, Mallory 6AL ignition with stock knock box, and AutoMeter "Ultra-Lite Pro" wideband O2 sensor & gauge. I'll use basic hoses and clamps until I get it all set up and know my lengths, then I'll get Aeroquip or Russell stainless-braided hoses and anodized fittings so it looks professional.

Question: Am I gonna need to run a new fuel line all the way from the tank to the pressure regulator, or is there a way to connect the existing lines at the CIS pump housing and connect the factory line to the Filter King? If I have to tear everything apart to get to the tank, I may change my mind and go with the standalone Carter pump and delete the in-tank unit. What do you guys do for a fuel pickup when using the Carter pump?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I drive a Rabbit, the fuel feed is at the bottom of the tank. No in-tank for me, sorry .

To delete the under car stuff, just remove the pump/box and lines to the tank. You should be able to run new line from the tank to the existing lines. It's a bit of a fiddle, but waaaaaaaay easier than running new lines all the way to the front. That's how I did it when I went in-tank in a previous Mk2 turbo project.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

The Volvo is my Daily, it runs with no filters and has for the last 3 years or so, minus a few engine swaps in the pursuit of more power. 

As far as the in-tank, what you could do is run your fuel pump line to the return port on the fuel sender if you want to delete the in-tank. I think its a waste. keep your in-tank, it helps lifts the fuel from the bog and relieves some stress on the external pump. OR- do what we all do, run just an intank pump... _issues solved_.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Yeah, my current plan is to use the stock in-tank pump and just run that to the Malpassi/Filter King regulator. It's a high-volume low pressure pump... and since I only need a couple PSI, it should be fine. I was just asking for the sake of curiosity... and in case I needed a backup plan.  You know how it is working on cars: things rarely go according to plan.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Whoa... very kewl. :thumbup: Where did you get that valve cover and what brand/type is it?


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

just finished my setup, its alive ! just need some tuning. crappy cell pic


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

looks clean!


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

vwgroundpilot said:


> Yeah, my current plan is to use the stock in-tank pump and just run that to the Malpassi/Filter King regulator. It's a high-volume low pressure pump... and since I only need a couple PSI, it should be fine. I was just asking for the sake of curiosity... and in case I needed a backup plan.  You know how it is working on cars: things rarely go according to plan.


 i used my stock in tank pump, cloged the return line and ive ran a new line from the pressure side of the pump to the carter pump in the engine bay with a holley regulator ( in the stock location where the old metal hoses are wich i have removed )


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

hantonyc said:


> i used my stock in tank pump, cloged the return line and ive ran a new line from the pressure side of the pump to the carter pump in the engine bay with a holley regulator ( in the stock location where the old metal hoses are wich i have removed )


 So you have the stock in-tank pump powered on and feeding the Carter unit? 

You'll have to keep us up to speed on how it works out over time.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

vwgroundpilot said:


> So you have the stock in-tank pump powered on and feeding the Carter unit?
> 
> You'll have to us up to speed on how it works out over time.


Why does that cause concern? I'm also running intank and 2 outer pumps. Main reason... I have 2 systems now- one efi and one carb. all i do is switch at the tee between both outer pumps. The EFI one has the return to tank. Makes engine swaps so much easier now.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

> Why does that cause concern? I'm also running intank and 2 outer pumps. Main reason... I have 2 systems now- one efi and one carb. all i do is switch at the tee between both outer pumps. The EFI one has the return to tank. Makes engine swaps so much easier now.


I'm just uncertain of how the stock in-tank pump would interact with the Carter external pump. Also, for my case where I don't need the flexibility to swap back and forth, having two pumps creates an unnecessary additional point of failure.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

i'm not clear.... Why does the original vw setup have 2 pumps?? think bout it.


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## Wildkard9 (Nov 26, 2002)

the OEM setup was made because the stock bosch pumps that were mounted externally really were not meant to lift out the fuel from the tank. Once the fuel was to that pump its main job was to force volume up to the front. (60 to 90 psi on some cars). Im sure a big reason people abandon the intank pump is because the carters are capable of 30 inches worth of lift. Which is more than enough to draw from the tank. I left mine in working condition just to make it easier to prime should there ever be a flow back to the tank. As for how it interacts? Its just more of a prime pump now. It kicks on but serves no purpose once the carter has suction.


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

Most excellent combo of pieces my friend!


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## lil_squeeker (Nov 17, 2003)

thank you for the power steering bracket idea B4S. :thumbup:



hope to have it running by fall.

1.8 16v rebuilt
42dcoe webers
megajolt-edis ignition


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## sump scraper (Apr 13, 2008)

_WCHLVR_ said:


> Most excellent combo of pieces my friend!


 thanks :thumbup:


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Made a huge mistake today!!! Freaking button on my shirt popped off into the intake, and not the throttle plate is fubar. Awesome


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU...... 

Dude, that sucks . Replacement?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

I'm hoping i have an extra. these are the ones with the reliefs cut into the blades for quicker progressive response, no chokes.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

****. I've got them in my current universals, but no spares. 

40's right? 
http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_details.asp?PartNo=7481&CategoryID=1&PartsectionID=1 
I love ordering from these guys, super fast shipping and great service .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Aw SNAP! You are the man. Is it my internet fubar?? I click on the "buy" ...nothing happens.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm, I had to do it the long way to get it to work, odd. That's never happened before. 

Go into "Dellorto car carburetors", and then into "DHLA Parts". You'll find them in there. I seriously love these guys for Dell parts. Never had a bad transaction, and I've spent thousands over the years, lol.


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## vwgtiboy (Nov 13, 2001)

*mk3 racecar*

this is my mk3 golf racecar. built it from a 200.00 beater from the ground up. iam running a webber with a modified stock intake. i know it looks a lil funny but its just for the track. let me know what you think.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

You mean a modded Holley? 
I love this, I should try it one day .


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

agreed!


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

A built-up $200 beater... do you run this in LeMons or Chumpcar?

Looks like a fun car! :thumbup:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Hm... No replies in a few weeks. Maybe I can pipe it back up a bit =)










The return springs are crude and less than attractive at the moment, but they work and will be replaced when I upgrade my linkage. Runs decently right now, but midrange is 'eh.' This is a MAJOR step up from when I had F16 emulsion tubes when it ran like 'WTF?' :laugh:


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

^ nice! keep up the good work.
my part-throttle is kind of "meh" as well... she's happy from 1/3 to 1/2 throttle onwards, but not always thrilled to be "tickled" :laugh:
i'm running f16 emulsions tubes in my 45s... what made you decide to change? how did it affect her?
while we're on the subject of tuning, B4S - i tried pulling my mains to see how far i could get on my idle jets... not even 30mph and couldn't really use 3rd gear :thumbdown:
so i'm guessing i should up my idles. i'm currently running 55 f8 at about 3 turns out.
any education that can be provided by the few always benefits the many 

i suppose i should post a pic as well... i'll have to get a few non-artsy ones


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

My mid-range was TERRIBLE (almost undriveable), so I went to F9s in an attempt to get it to transition better. In hindsight, I wish I had gone a bit leaner on the bottom end/more holes higher on the tube. It still doesn't like light-throttle cruising, but it's driveable (which is good since it's my daily). I'm also still running the factory 36mm chokes, though. I think if I drop the chokes to 34s (possibly 32s) it will help me out a lot. Still debating a set of F2 or F3s. Seems a lot of the Datsun 510 guys like the F15s, but it seems like it may be a little TOO lean on bottom.

I'm running 50 F8 idles at either 2.5 or 2.75 out (is it bad I don't remember?). It's a little rich on the bottom end, and honestly I'd rather the needle be a little more in than that, but it idles BEAUTIFULLY - so I'm leaving it be for now. 

I have a decent selection of idles, mains and air correctors, so I'm going to my bud's shop on Sunday to have him help me tweak it out. He's worked with Webers (and carbs in general, for that matter) for MANY years, so it should be a big help. One of the biggest tips he gave me was to run a pump that does roughly 6-8psi, use a Y and a separate regulator for each carb. He said that the set-up we run can cause a massive (as in 0.5-1.0psi) drop in fuel pressure from the lead carb to the trailing carb, and even though they are sync'd at idle, they may lose it a bit due to the pressure variance - which makes sense since one bowl would fill faster than the other. The Triumph they run a triplet of 45s on has one regulator per carb. It sounds like overkill, but he swears by it.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I like that regulator per carb idea. Makes good sense.
My new project might be getting a triplet of emissions Dells, once I get the engine in, and I was concerned about pressure drop across all three.

notajetta: You should be able to get fairly far on just the idles, it's dependent on throttle position, so you have to drive like an old, old, old man :laugh:. Drive around like that for an hour or so, or at least an extended period of time, so you get used to the way the car reacts without the main stack. When you put the mains and tubes back in, it'll be a night/day difference and you can really start to fine tune it, since you'll be tuned in to the car's new behaviour. The main thing is that you want to be able to tell when the mains come in, and when the idles stop, so you don't have any overlap. As long as your air/fuel ratio was good on the idles, when you put the mains back in, tune them strictly for top end and make sure they have very little effect on the range that the idles control.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

:thumbup: excellent tips guys, many thanks!
she'll be on the road for Dubs In the Valley (http://www.dubsinthevalley.com/10/) for the weekend, so hopefully next week i'll dig into more fine-tuning. and the 1-regulator-per-carb idea does make sense... i might have to look into that :thumbup:
thanks again!


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

B4S said:


> My new project might be getting a triplet of emissions Dells...


I have a single 40F sitting around if you have any interest. No jets and no stacks though. I also have a pair of Solex 40 PHH2s. One is incomplete though, and aside from jets and seals, parts are IMPOSSIBLE to get.



notajetta said:


> ...the 1-regulator-per-carb idea does make sense...


I mentioned it because I tend to trust a guy who has been working on British and Italian sports cars since the early 70s, and mostly for race teams :laugh: Currently he crews for a former Group 44 Triumph TR-8. I actually debated putting a pair of SUs on the car for a while, just bc he had so damn many just laying around :screwy:


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

notajetta said:


> ^ nice! keep up the good work.
> my part-throttle is kind of "meh" as well... she's happy from 1/3 to 1/2 throttle onwards, but not always thrilled to be "tickled" :laugh:
> i'm running f16 emulsions tubes in my 45s... what made you decide to change? how did it affect her?
> while we're on the subject of tuning, B4S - i tried pulling my mains to see how far i could get on my idle jets... not even 30mph and couldn't really use 3rd gear :thumbdown:
> ...


if you motor is hesitating when you are cruising along or gradually accelerating and you arearound 2500-3000 rpms, then get the next richer air bleed size on your idle jets. 55 should be more than enough and the air bleed component of the idle jet has a more profound effect on the transition phase of tne idle circuit. i forget, but i think an f9 is the next richer. if you are above 3000 which puts you into the main jet and it is hesitating while cruising along go up 1 size on your main. a 155 should be more than enough unless you have big cams and compression. if you have a 145 set in there now though, just go up to a 150 first. if your problem happens when you jam the gas pedal, which it doesnt sound like it from your post, then you may need a bigger accelerator pump jet. good luck


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

candm said:


> if you motor is hesitating when you are cruising along or gradually accelerating and you arearound 2500-3000 rpms, then get the next richer air bleed size on your idle jets.


:thumbup: An often overlooked way to tune idle circuit jetting. Hell, when I read your post my immediate reaction was "Son of a BATCH! Now I have to order F9 idles!" :laugh:


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Got the throttle plate back to awesome. Now if only humidity would leave.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

woodrowstar said:


> Got the throttle plate back to awesome. Now if only humidity would leave.


What's the humidity up there, 40%? :laugh: It's 80% here when it's low :banghead:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

notajetta -

Sent you a PM.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

IRDangerDave said:


> What's the humidity up there, 40%? :laugh: It's 80% here when it's low :banghead:


average @ 60... last couple of weeks been in the 90% for days on end. It finally rained last night. JOY!!!!!


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

candm said:


> if you motor is hesitating when you are cruising along or gradually accelerating and you arearound 2500-3000 rpms, then get the next richer air bleed size on your idle jets. 55 should be more than enough and the air bleed component of the idle jet has a more profound effect on the transition phase of tne idle circuit. i forget, but i think an f9 is the next richer. if you are above 3000 which puts you into the main jet and it is hesitating while cruising along go up 1 size on your main. a 155 should be more than enough unless you have big cams and compression. if you have a 145 set in there now though, just go up to a 150 first. if your problem happens when you jam the gas pedal, which it doesnt sound like it from your post, then you may need a bigger accelerator pump jet. good luck


OK so i have the same sort of problem. I have 55F9's already what about the air bypass screw adjustment?

but i found this in my looking for info on this.
Weaker Normal Rich 

F3 , F1 , F7 , F5 ,F2-F4 ,F13 ,F8-F11-F14, F9, F12, F6.

On a side note i went over my baseline settings tonight just to be ready for some tuning tomorrow and found my timing was at 3* initial so 23* total . now back up at 12I-32T already much better. 

K.I.S.S.:beer:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

impulse byer said:


> OK so i have the same sort of problem. I have 55F9's already what about the air bypass screw adjustment?


I had a lengthy talk with an Alfa Romeo engine builder yesterday. He told me ways of tuning with those air bleeds (which are only on newer 151/152 DCOEs), but that the adjustments are minute at best. I tried one one of the tips he gave me and saw almost no results. Probably a lot more noticeable in a stronger/more built engine.

I'm having a HELL of a time getting my car to run through all the fuel in the tank right now. Once it gets to about 1/4 tank, it's all over. So I'm going to a 5gal SFI-spec bottom-sump tank. It may be a bit 'overkill', but not having a working sending unit and a new carb set up with unpredictable mileage makes it hard to know when I'm going to go dry. At least w.the bottom sump I can just look down in it and see.

(plus... I got it cheap :laugh: )


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

impulse byer said:


> OK so i have the same sort of problem. I have 55F9's already what about the air bypass screw adjustment?
> 
> but i found this in my looking for info on this.
> Weaker Normal Rich
> ...


the new timing #s you have listed should be good unless you have very high compression. your new timing should reaaly help your car out. i wouldnt worry about the idle bypass screws. just turn them in all the way and tighten the locknuts. you can fine tune the airflow at idle with those later if you want, but that is not necessary. what you would do for adjustment is find the cylinder flowing the most air at idle and then adjust the others to match with the bypass screws.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

^ Yup, that's what he told me - I just couldn't put it into words for some reason :screwy:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

If anyone is interested, I have the Weber overhal/service manual and Des Hammill's "Build & Power Tune DCOE/DHLA" books in .pdf form. Just shoot me a PM w/your e-mail.


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

hi folks i am having some troubles with my carbs

ive got a wideband and at idle its between 13:1 - 13.5:1 , WOT its about 11.5:1 - 12:1 but if i want to stay a cruising speed it goes lean and hesitate, and to accelerate at a normal rate its going leanand hesitate again i have to push about half the pedal to get it running good .. have you an idea ? there are the only 2 problems left .. finaly lol

i have a 2l16v aba with shaved head, decked block, stock compression , 2 exhaust cams , eurosport header and dcoe 45

150 f15 main
55 f8 idle
50 pump jet
3.5 psi pressure
idle screws are two turn out from seated

thanks

better pic then the last time :


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

other then seeing the A/F ratio, what else is the car doing? also, what trans?


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

2y trans , the car hesitate, buck , it really feels like it dosent have enough gaz at low part throttle and at cruising speed


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

What size venturis are you running?


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

honnestly i dont know, ive bought the kit as it is and the guy didnt knew either i just made it run by tweeking it.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

If they're on there as they came in the kit they are WAY off. Probably 145 mains, F16 emulsion tubes, 155 air bleeds, 60F8 idles and 36mm venturis. With those venturis at a cruise, the partial throttle is letting enough air VOLUME in, but thhat RPM range the air SPEED is affecting the engine's ability to create vacuum to draw the proper mix in.

The odds of putting a Weber on a car and having it start right up right up and run properly... well, let's just say you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, bitten by a shark, mauled by a tiger, banging a Victoria's Secret model and winning the lottery in the same day.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

IRDangerDave said:


> The odds of putting a Weber on a car and having it start right up right up and run properly... well, let's just say you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning, bitten by a shark, mauled by a tiger, banging a Victoria's Secret model and winning the lottery in the same day.


WOW! Best quote in here, in a long while!!!


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

hahahahaha good one ! sad but true


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Once you get the basic formula down they're not that bad :thumbup:


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

hantonyc said:


> hi folks i am having some troubles with my carbs
> 
> ive got a wideband and at idle its between 13:1 - 13.5:1 , WOT its about 11.5:1 - 12:1 but if i want to stay a cruising speed it goes lean and hesitate, and to accelerate at a normal rate its going leanand hesitate again i have to push about half the pedal to get it running good .. have you an idea ? there are the only 2 problems left .. finaly lol
> 
> ...


i would make a couple of changes. if at wot you are under 12.1 then get the next richer air corrector jet. allthough webers can take like 4 psi, i would turn your fuel pressure down to 3. if thr car is hesitating while cruising along, i would guess that you are under 3000 and probably still running on your idle circuit. try turning out your mixture screws another 1/8th of a turn and if that doesnt help with the stumbling then i would change your idle jet. a 155 for the fuel component part of the jet should be fine but get the next richer air bleed with it


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

As another side note - I can get Weber parts (through Redline) at a decent discount. If you need something, PM me a part number. I'll get you a price and a shipping quote. The 'discount' varies from part to part, and it's typically not HUGE (figure on 5%-10% - IE: jets it's typically $1.00-$1.50, but on jet KITS it's about $10).

Whole carbs are still damned expensive, but I can also get WHOLE KITS for a DAMN good discount... but you will have to PM me for that!

Shipping is the biggest saver on small parts, bc on most parts it would be $3-$5 to just about anywhere via UPS ground, and about $15 for 3-day.

For part numbers and list prices, go to http://www.carburetion.com/Weber/weber.htm

Keep in mind I am NOT making money on this! It's simply a gesture!


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

IRDangerDave said:


> Keep in mind I am NOT making money on this! It's simply a gesture!


Thanks for the PDF!!


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

No problem =) Did you get the .zip opened up easily?


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Well, unfortunately life has smacked me in the jewels and I have to get off the carb diet and go back to EFI. BIG life change coming, car has to be 'more reliable,' blah blah...

So anyway, selling my set-up. It's all over the classifieds. MkI, MkII, Passat, Cabrio, Scirrocco and South East all have posts (even the FS/WTB thread in this forum has a post).

If anyone's interested I'm letting the whole deal go for $900 w/all of my jets (almost $400 just in jets). If someone wants just the jets, let me know - I'll make you a deal.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Ouch! Sorry to hear that. Yes, I did get the .zip opened.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

It sucks, that's for sure - but the Webers will be finding themselves a new home on an ABF clone. Not a bad gig at all =)


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

My triple ICT manifold is starting to take shape. Thought I would share. 

All the runners are done. Struggling with where I want to put the plenum. I tacked it in place here. 


































It is almost exactly the same height as the VC 









Clears the exhaust perfectly. 









As it sits it is much like the stock mani


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Dibs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

gdheetmmsmsm


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

^Is that a good thing? :laugh: 

Got the plenum welded to the runners. Laid down a double bead to insure it can support the carbs with ease- 


























Now I just need to find three ICT's.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

I can find you NEW ones :laugh:


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

IRDangerDave said:


> I can find you NEW ones :laugh:


 But new ones don't fit into my "totally broke" budget! LOL 

Thanks though!!! :beer:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Yea, even at my 'discount' they're around $100/ea >_


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

IRDangerDave said:


> Yea, even at my 'discount' they're around $100/ea >_


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

For S&Gs I'm going to call and price them. I'm pretty creative at making things work


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

hey guys Im curious to see what everyone else is using to sync their carbs??

summers about over here and the gti loves that cool crisp morning air


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

i use the rubber hose whistle technique or a vacuum plenum and gauge setup. Mainly, i use the hose- just match the tones.


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

rubber hose techinque?? Im curious? where are you placing the hose at the carbs?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

picture speaks words.


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

beautiful, thank you :thumbup:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

woodrowstar said:


> picture speaks words.


...but those are SUs :laugh:


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

does anybody have a jet inspection cover laying around they would want to get rid of before I order a new one?? :banghead:

when to tinker at lunch and covers gone..... it left me somewhere in the past few days...


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

Forgot to post this up-


Also got the caps for my intake-


















And two of my 3 carbs are here-










An idea of how it will look-


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

#4?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

IRDangerDave said:


> ...but those are SUs :laugh:


Ha. At least wasn't Solex.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

_WCHLVR_ said:


> Forgot to post this up-


 For some reason I had visioned a large 2 barrel Holley there. I bet this is going to sound way better.


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

yes #4 Dave


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

woodrowstar said:


> Ha. At least wasn't Solex.


I happen to have a soft spot for SUs, and almost built a manifold to run twin HD8s on the Golf :screwy:


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

Ive had that very cover come off once before and luckily it laid on the carb body until I found it, after that I put lock tite on the wing nut threads but I guess it wasnt enought.... :screwy:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

pigryder said:


> yes #4 Dave


You have a PM.


----------



## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

IRDangerDave said:


> You have a PM.



Thanks :thumbup:


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

It is a wonderful thing to have the folks in this thread helping one another out. Thanks folks!


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Okay I have a 16v Scirocco. 

Curious if anyone has a picture to show how you routed you fueling? 

Did you run rubber hose? Hard lines ( if so where did you get them?) 
How did you route it? With a return? 

I have a Dual Weber 45 setup. 
Right now, I have the fuel sender hooked up and the filter on the side of the gas tank. 
Now I'd like some feedback, it seems as if not everyone is running a return line? 


I appreciate the help, thank you


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## Spoiled87Coupe (Jan 5, 2007)

is a 40 f11 idle jet smaller than a 45 f11?
I ordered new idle jets for my 40 dcoes's and didn't realize the original ones in the carbs were a 45 f9. Did I order the wrong ones and need to get the 45 f11's


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## hinshu (May 29, 2001)

prom king said:


> Okay I have a 16v Scirocco.
> 
> Curious if anyone has a picture to show how you routed you fueling?
> 
> ...


I'll take a pic for you when I get out to work on my car later this week.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

Spoiled87Coupe said:


> is a 40 f11 idle jet smaller than a 45 f11?
> I ordered new idle jets for my 40 dcoes's and didn't realize the original ones in the carbs were a 45 f9. Did I order the wrong ones and need to get the 45 f11's


you really should get a book on webers or you will never understand or get them running right. the best one i have found is " how to build and powertune weber and dellorto carbs " by des hammill. that being said, on webers, there are 2 parts to your idle jet. the first is the fuel component which is the first #. in your case , 40 or 45. the larger the #, the richer. the other component is the air bleed. in your case an f11 or an f9. you might think that the f11 would be richer, but that is not the case. f9 is richer. what you should try and do, is get the car running, balance the carbs and adjust your mixture screws for lean best idle. on newer webers, spanish made ones, you should be approximately 2-3 turns out. 13/4 - 31/4 is probably ok, but after that you need to get a richer or leaner jet. larger fuel #. dont change the air bleed yet. then, when you are driving it, you want to see how well it accelerates. if it hesitates or stutters, you are lean and if it accelerates very slowly or bogs down, you are rich. at this point, you need to stay with the same fuel component and get a richer or leaner air bleed. make sure when you are testing acceleration, that you dont jam the gas pedal down. that will use the accelerator pump which will richen the mixture. just accelerate slowly


----------



## Spoiled87Coupe (Jan 5, 2007)

Candm, thanks for the info. I do have the hp book on webers and has gotten me pretty far with them. Full rebuild on them and getting a good base setting to get the car running and driveable. I didnt see anything that describes the number infront of the f number thought. I'm having a backfire through the carb issue at between 2500 and 3500 rpm which lead me to believe that I was leaning out in that range. I had read somewhere that going from an f9 to f11 would help. Car is running an obd1 2.0L with just the msd 6l, blaster coil, and a modified stock distributor. I have no timing controller as the msd 8980 I got off of eBay was no good. I do have a new one on order and am waiting for it to come in to hopefully help the backfire issue and give me the advance I need through rpm ranges. Thanks again for the info :beer:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

A 40 F11 is one size leaner fuel component TWO sizes leaner on the air bleed than a 45 F9. I have had my best luck on almost all 4cyl using a 55 F9 as a starting point. If you want a copy of the Des Hammill book shoot me a PM.

You're running into a very common transitioning problem. Get me all your jetting info and I'll try to smooth it out for you.


----------



## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

building up a 1.8L jh engine given to me by my bud "funpig". mild polish, port matched intake /exhaust, hopefully a g-grind or 1.6 cam so i hear. want to know if anyone has any info pics of old holley 94 carbs on a jh/rv engine


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

I have always dreamed of running any of the early 2bbls (holley, rochester, stromberg) but they are so damn expensive. I dont recall ever seeing any VW running this type of carb... minus a car better know as the Mangler-










Even then they were mounted to a Corvair motor.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

_WCHLVR_ said:


> I have always dreamed of running any of the early 2bbls (holley, rochester, stromberg) but they are so damn expensive. I dont recall ever seeing any VW running this type of carb... minus a car better know as the Mangler-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks for the input WCHLVR, i have two of them just rotting away on the self, whated to do something cool and different. looks like its just a matter of finding or building a manifold. one carb to two intake ports. this would be awsome, im gonna keep researching. i will have these on my vw....:beer:


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

Since your going to have to start from ground zero you might give consideration to running them on progressive linkage. This will make tuning them exponentially easier and provide much better MPG when rolling around town.

_EDIT: Obviously the manifold would have to span all 4 cylinders. _


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Whoa... seriously cool. :thumbup:

Where did you get that finned valve cover? Looks wicked!

Just as a general update: I'm still lurking in this section, soaking up info. My Weber install schedule has gotten bumped due to other things... early 2012 instead of right now. I'm dropping $1500 on necessary add-ons for a new pickup, then I'm also trying to save up for a lift at my new place (still under construction). The GTI will get the carbs after those other things, then it needs the transmission done basically at the same time... ~$1400 in carbs and ignition parts, and ~$1600 in transmission rebuild + Peloquin diff. That's more than I paid for the car back in 2000 ($2950). :screwy:

My wife and I are moving into the new place when it's finished, hopefully in the next 2-3 months... it has an awesome garage (24'x96'). Figure I should just wait and do the GTI work when I have a nicer shop space and a lift. Here's a pic of the new place from last weekend:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Not to be a digger-up-of-old-threads kinda guy...but I just got word that AEM is releasing a 4-channel wideband setup soon. There's pics of it on the net, from the PRI show in Florida that's going on currently.

This is an ESSENTIAL tool that will end up in my arsenal when I'm carbed/ITB'd again. It even comes with exhaust backpressure compensation built in .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

HA! Went to the junkyard today to get a replacement mirror for the Wife's Cavalier (yeah...I smashed it with one of my Jetta's winter rims ). Decided to take a peek around, and what a lucky day it's been! For some unknown reason there were TWO Maserati Bi-Turbos there ...and they both HAD Malpassi boost-referenced fuel pressure regulators .

Mine now .


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

As it turns out, Maserati used these regulators in a very unique way. The fuel pump went right to the carb, where it tee'd off to the regulator. There are two fuel ports on the FPR, one from the pump and one to the tank as a return. Essentially, it worked like a fuel rail setup, with the regulator after the injectors (carb). I didn't dig this, so I did what any obsessed, constantly-mind-changing guy would do...I went to the garage and fired up the drill press .

I drilled out one of the plugged ports, and tapped it for 1/8NPT. Now it's a proper bypass regulator, that's also boost referenced . I still have the other one, which is unmodified, in case I want to try it as well. I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to do with these things, but that's usually the case around here.

This is what it looks like now, whereas before it only had one side port, one downward port, and the vac input.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

:thumbup:


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## _WCHLVR_ (Dec 7, 2010)

Just finished up my custom triple carb intake manifold. Snap some quick cell phone pics-


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

_WCHLVR_ said:


> Just finished up my custom triple carb intake manifold. Snap some quick cell phone pics-


That is some crazy, ridiculous, rat-rod looking sh!t...

...and I love it :laugh:

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Took some nicer "non-camera phone" pics-


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Took some nicer "non-camera phone" pics


Is this going to break the hood line?


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> Is this going to break the hood line?


In a big way. My truck has a 3.5" body drop. After running the numbers a few times it looks like the timing gear and valve cover will be about 1" above the hood line and that is with my stand off hood hinges. That said the entire body of the carbs will be above the hood line. For now a hood is out of the question. Once it is running I will look into artfully trimming the hood to clear the interferences.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> In a big way. My truck has a 3.5" body drop. After running the numbers a few times it looks like the timing gear and valve cover will be about 1" above the hood line and that is with my stand off hood hinges. That said the entire body of the carbs will be above the hood line. For now a hood is out of the question. Once it is running I will look into artfully trimming the hood to clear the interferences.


Go 60s Ferrari style:










Big shiny clear bubble :laugh:


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Everything about the truck is being built to mimic hot rod styling. Exposed carbs were always part of the plan.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Everything about the truck is being built to mimic hot rod styling. Exposed carbs were always part of the plan.


Thus why the bubble would be clear ^_~


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

We'll see how it progresses. I may have to build bubbles over the motor components :laugh:. For now I just want it running and drivable. I am dying to get it back on the road.

Oh... I am planning to run functional side pipes though!


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> We'll see how it progresses. I may have to build bubbles over the motor components :laugh:. For now I just want it running and drivable. I am dying to get it back on the road.
> 
> Oh... I am planning to run functional side pipes though!


; I want to see this thing!


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> ; I want to see this thing!


These shots mock up what it will look like when aired out- 


















Shot of the some of surgery going on-










2.5" narrowed control arms as if aired out-


















At ride height-


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Very nice work! I like those control arms a lot!


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> Very nice work! I like those control arms a lot!


Thanks. I was very pleased how they came together.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Thanks. I was very pleased how they came together.


Did you purchase or make the ball joint extenders? I've debated a set, but the price point ($265/pair from PMW plus $40 for a bump-steer kit) is a bit much for me. Plus I've heard horror stories of extenders breaking on street cars (even when welded), and I daily my car. If it was a track car the cost and fear of pot holes would be eliminated. I just want some geometry back lol


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> Did you purchase or make the ball joint extenders? I've debated a set, but the price point ($265/pair from PMW plus $40 for a bump-steer kit) is a bit much for me. Plus I've heard horror stories of extenders breaking on street cars (even when welded), and I daily my car. If it was a track car the cost and fear of pot holes would be eliminated. I just want some geometry back lol


Its all custom built. I based it on a design the Ford Focus crowd has been using for years on their race cars. 










My design consists of a 3/4" Grade 8 Bolt slightly turned down to fit in the spindles. Then I slipped a piece of 1" DOM over it to act as a spacer and to offer a little more strength. Its a full 2.5" of drop. The rod end is a 3/4" QA1 piece.

Here is a close up shot for you-










Hope that helps.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Its all custom built. I based it on a design the Ford Focus crowd has been using for years on their race cars.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hm... It does, actually - and I like it a lot. The design reminded me very much of a purpose-built race suspensions (and trust me, I've seen a lot of those). That kind of stuff is typically 'available' for sale, but $$$ (such as the PMW spacers). I'd love to run something like that. Shame the budget won't play nice. Want to make me a set? I can pay you in bad puns and cheap beer!


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> Hm... It does, actually - and I like it a lot. The design reminded me very much of a purpose-built race suspensions (and trust me, I've seen a lot of those). That kind of stuff is typically 'available' for sale, but $$$ (such as the PMW spacers). I'd love to run something like that. Shame the budget won't play nice. Want to make me a set? I can pay you in bad puns and cheap beer!


I am actually looking into making into a kit to add to my site. I have also been toying around with the idea of making it work with stock control arms. We'll see....


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> I am actually looking into making into a kit to add to my site. I have also been toying around with the idea of making it work with stock control arms. We'll see....


The best adaptation of stock-to-spherical I have seen is from SCCH, but at $625 for the set I'd rather see Mitt Romney naked. They look nice, though! 


















They weld in, obviously.









They also sell tubular LCAs. Mmmm...

If these were the price of the PMWs (which, really, is reasonable for two chunks of machined metal and a pair of $50 heim joints) I would SERIOUSLY consider it. The PMWs are just bolt-on spacers for the stock LBJ >_<

The only down side is I would really rather keep a sealed ball joint on a street/daily car.


----------



## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Yeah... very familiar with the SCCH stuff. Quality stuff for sure but like you said the pricing makes it way outside the range for many of us looking to use it for our street cars (hence why I built my own). Agreed on the sealed heim would be best but I have yet to find a sealed high misalignment with the articulation these QA1s offer.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

I lack the work space to make my own of anything anymore. And don't get me wrong, SCCH makes great stuff, and their spherical bearing kits are actually not bad at all price wise. The price point on the ball joints just kills me.

Back on topic... ever find your third carb? :laugh:


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> Back on topic... ever find your third carb? :laugh:


Still on the hunt. I will likely just have to buy another dual carb setup and just hang onto the extra carb. :laugh:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Still on the hunt. I will likely just have to buy another dual carb setup and just hang onto the extra carb. :laugh:


Give me specs again. I have a few air cooled buddies who just might have one around.


----------



## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> Give me specs again. I have a few air cooled buddies who just might have one around.


Weber 34 ICT (no choke)


----------



## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Weber 34 ICT (no choke)


I'll ask around :thumbup:


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

IRDangerDave said:


> I'll ask around :thumbup:


Thank you Dave.


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

hey guys! it's been a while! two things:

#1: i've wanted to do some ball joint extenders for quite a while now, so if anyone can make a high quality set for less that SCCH that would be awesome... and i know that to get good quality it will take $$$. the idea of using oem ball joints sounds appealing too...

#2: B4S ... i had to hunt back to about page 28 to find it, but you posted that you've been using the fuel pump from a 1979 ford courier... i love your idea of using a pump that can be replaced from almost any auto parts store (i doubt they carry my carter 4070 in stock...). 
Advance auto is showing an Airtex Electric Fuel Pump (Part No. E2019)... 
the specs for the courier pump show it putting out 2.5-4.5 psi ... are you getting any low pressure issues? or is the 30gph flow rate enough to make up for any low pressure situations? i've been using a holley FPR (great for the price), but i'm considering getting a malpassi unit to keep with the "vintage" vibe.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

notajetta said:


> #1: i've wanted to do some ball joint extenders for quite a while now, so if anyone can make a high quality set for less that SCCH that would be awesome... and i know that to get good quality it will take $$$. the idea of using oem ball joints sounds appealing too...


PMWltd.com keeps 1.5" extenders for stock ball joints in stock for $265, and can custom make longer/shorter lengths. I'm not sold on extending stock ball joints, but a few folks have used them on track cars and not reported failures. 

Don't forget to do a bumpsteer kit as well.


----------



## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

awesome, thanks! i'll have to take some measurements to see how long of an extender will be ideal. i already have a bumpsteer kit (a.k.a. tie rod flip kit) but i've held off on installing it until i extend the ball joints as i've heard that it can actually make bumpsteer worse if used on its own.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

notajetta said:


> #2: B4S ... i had to hunt back to about page 28 to find it, but you posted that you've been using the fuel pump from a 1979 ford courier... i love your idea of using a pump that can be replaced from almost any auto parts store (i doubt they carry my carter 4070 in stock...).
> Advance auto is showing an Airtex Electric Fuel Pump (Part No. E2019)...
> the specs for the courier pump show it putting out 2.5-4.5 psi ... are you getting any low pressure issues? or is the 30gph flow rate enough to make up for any low pressure situations? i've been using a holley FPR (great for the price), but i'm considering getting a malpassi unit to keep with the "vintage" vibe.


Nope, no low pressure problems at all . Webers and Dells will run quite happily on 2.5psi, if the flow is high enough, and the needles are properly sized. There's a nice Stromberg suction pump that mounts in the bay that puts out a constant 2.5psi, but something silly like 100gph. I'm thinking of trying that one day .

I've got a Filter King FPR, with the aluminum bowl, and it's the best part of my whole parts collection .


----------



## Dviduris (Nov 22, 2011)

do the 1.6 DT and KR 1.8 cylinder heads are interchangeable ? both of them have 81.00mm bore


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

notajetta said:


> #2: B4S ... i had to hunt back to about page 28 to find it, but you posted that you've been using the fuel pump from a 1979 ford courier... i love your idea of using a pump that can be replaced from almost any auto parts store (i doubt they carry my carter 4070 in stock...).
> Advance auto is showing an Airtex Electric Fuel Pump (Part No. E2019)...
> the specs for the courier pump show it putting out 2.5-4.5 psi ... are you getting any low pressure issues? or is the 30gph flow rate enough to make up for any low pressure situations? i've been using a holley FPR (great for the price), but i'm considering getting a malpassi unit to keep with the "vintage" vibe.


You may be surprised on the Carter pumps availability, though it may be less than it was, say, 10 years ago.


----------



## krayzkrn (May 31, 2008)

I have a light throttle stumble that clears away after transitioning to the main jets. I turned in my idle jets completely and the car still idles fine? What does that mean? Only 1 turn in for idle speed.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

When the throttle plates are closed, how are the progression holes? The throttle plates should be blocking them from operating at idle.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Here's my ABA/JH on dual weber 40's in my 85









A downdraft setup I got sittin around









A few carb'd heads

















A Weber 38 setup









Building a 3A now that I'm gonna carb for my 75 Swallowtail.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Who is the manufacturer of that progressive intake? I don't recall ever seeing one with the carb mounted sideways. Is it for an Audi or something?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

All the counterflow downdraft manis mount the carb like that. Better distribution of fuel that way.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

B4S said:


> All the counterflow downdraft manis mount the carb like that. Better distribution of fuel that way.


Yup.

ntmare:

That single 38 going in the swallowtail? Seems like a good fit.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Yep... Im an idiot. When I was looking at the pic on my phone I thought it was sideways. My bad. :laugh:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Yeah I think so as well, I have wanted to run a 38 on either an ABA or a 3A, I have both blocks now, I'm goin with the 3A, now what head to run? I have a Mallory FPR I'm gonna use and an assortment of inline pumps ranging from Mr. Gasket to Carters and some Moroso inline filters, thought about using a Super Cool Can if I use the JH, if I go ABA, I won't need to. I'm goin the EDIS route and using a cam position sensor etc etc.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Who is the manufacturer of that progressive intake? I don't recall ever seeing one with the carb mounted sideways. Is it for an Audi or something?


Not sure, I will look at it for ya.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Urwrstntmare said:


> Not sure, I will look at it for ya.


Dont worry about it... I was viewing it bassackwards late last night on my phone.


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## krayzkrn (May 31, 2008)

B4S said:


> When the throttle plates are closed, how are the progression holes? The throttle plates should be blocking them from operating at idle.


One of the progression hole was exposed which resulted in good idle speed. They can be blocked off but any turns in on the idle screw will open them up. Basically, any idle speed adjustment will engage the first progression ports. Is this normal?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Having any progression holes exposed means that the idle mix screws are useless. The idle fuel will be coming from there instead of the idle port. You need to close the ports completely and get idle air around the plate. Advanced timing at idle will help keep it running as well. I usually set my cars up at 13-15*.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> Advanced timing at idle will help keep it running as well. I usually set my cars up at 13-15*.


Agreed. 


Now an odd question... Who wants to compound carb a four cylinder engine? little carb feeding a larger one.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Interesting idea. The small carb would respond to a low signal, and the larger one would work best at high? Kinda like a progressive, no?

Sent from my Slatedroid-OPDN9 using Tapatalk


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

woodrowstar said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> Now an odd question... Who wants to compound carb a four cylinder engine? little carb feeding a larger one.


The mani would be interesting!


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> Kinda like a progressive, no?


Yes and no. I was thinking like a 4 barrel/cylinder deactivating setup, but using 2 separate sized carbs. Then, I had the idea of 2 side draft carbs inline for a turbo setup. Obviously, the carbs would be before the turbo.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Found at the yard today!


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Here's a question for the forum, I wanna take the lower portion of an ABA intake mani and cut the end of the runners off then take a sidedraft mani I have and cut the end of the runners off and weld the ABA end portion on. Is this feasible?.....:screwy:


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Seems doable. You think a single carb will be enough to feed a 2.0l?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

What matters is the carb.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

woodrowstar said:


> What matters is the carb.


I guess that was more of what I was asking. Is there a big enough side draft that can handle the job on its own?


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## notajetta (Nov 17, 2007)

there have been some V8s sold in the past that ran on one weber DCOE 45 stock. now given, they were V8s that were only putting out a bit over 200hp (it was the 60s? 70s?), but you get the idea. the dual side drafts that a lot of us do are nice, but not necessary.


----------



## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

notajetta said:


> there have been some V8s sold in the past that ran on one weber DCOE 45 stock. now given, they were V8s that were only putting out a bit over 200hp (it was the 60s? 70s?), but you get the idea. the dual side drafts that a lot of us do are nice, but not necessary.


Valid point. Some V8's (flatheads and such) came with 1 single barrel carb. I guess I was looking at it from an optimal performance stand point.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A single sidedraft (IMO) is perfect for one of our 8vs, probably even a fairly built one. A 45 flows a TON of air, and a stock 8v runs at ~180cfm at 100% VE. 100% is pretty close to unattainable too, so I wouldn't worry about it .

Port carburetion (one barrel per cylinder) is the most efficient way to fuel the engine though, because it allows you to meter the exact fuel needs of each cylinder. Now that AEM has a 4-channel wideband available, it should be even easier to dial in a dual-carbed car . IMO, even a well-tuned 40mm carb would be enough for a 2.0 8v, but I tune for low/mid range .


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

back at it again! this time counter flow 8v honda cbr 900rr carbs...just a mock up, still have a lot of tweaking. runners have to be extended and such...kinda miss the r1 16v setup though...

started with this


















to this









and then this


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Ergh... not sure how I feel about those fuel bowls that close to the manifold. At least you'll never have to deal with icing lol


----------



## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

lol i know right. but its just a mock up. gonna cut up another mani to extend the runners about an inch and a half and about two and a half inch couplers. this is the idea, so may be more or less. was also thinking about putting the heat sheild back on, just to create a heat barrier...whatcha think? ideas are very welcome...:beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Hmm, the bowls would definitely need a heatshield, if just to keep them from boiling over. If it were possible to angle the carbs up slightly, I'd do that, but you've got to match the way they're mounted on the bike to get them to run right IMO. Maybe replicate the way sidedraft manifolds are done, and make each runner an 'S' shape, going up and away from the manifold?


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

woodrowstar said:


> What matters is the carb.


It will be a weber 38 DCOE, so it will do fine.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

I picked up 3 OBD-I ABA heads at the yard and now have 3 lowers to play with and cut up to make a single SD carb mani. If anyone's looking for an early ABA head hit me up. I also found a 34 pict,28 pict and a 32 pict carb there.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Gonna start choppin on the manis this weekend, stay posted.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

counter or cross flow?


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Urwrstntmare said:


> It will be a weber 38 DCOE, so it will do fine.


My opinion says, no. You will just end up with CIS 1.8 non GTi performance.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Crossflow, I have a few 32/36's as well, so in your opinion, do you think a single carb will never breathe enough to give my application any real hp?
I have been chatting with Rowland Stanton about the dual SD mani but I wanna stay single, maybe I can find a 45 out there to swap for the 38.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Your going to be hard pressed to mount a progressive Weber to an ABA unless you make a custom manifold. Add to that the 32/36 is actually smaller than your 38.


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> ................ the 32/36 is actually smaller than your 38.


rephrase that.


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Urwrstntmare said:


> Crossflow.... maybe I can find a 45 out there to swap for the 38.


Ebay for dirt cheap under "harley davidson" motorcycles or key word "rat rod bike"


----------



## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

woodrowstar said:


> rephrase that.


I think I am missing the point? 

A progressive Weber has one 32mm bore and one 36mm bore.
A Weber 38 DCOE has two 38mm bores.

The progressive is a smaller carb is it not?


----------



## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> Your going to be hard pressed to mount a progressive Weber to an ABA unless you make a custom manifold. Add to that the 32/36 is actually smaller than your 38.



Any single mount will be a custom fab, I've searched far and wide and the Rowland Stanton seems to be the only mani for crossflow engines utilizing a carb, there's a few out there for ITB's and the dual SD that Rowland makes. :banghead:


----------



## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Just picked these up









And this was buried in the garage, found it while digging through some parts, I think this should produce a hot enough spark for my application.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Urwrstntmare said:


> Any single mount will be a custom fab, I've searched far and wide and the Rowland Stanton seems to be the only mani for crossflow engines utilizing a carb, there's a few out there for ITB's and the dual SD that Rowland makes. :banghead:


I was more referring to the height of the progressive. It would be quite tough to get it to mount under the hood unless it some how mounted off to the side.


----------



## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Yeah the progressive would have been real tight, I could have cut the manis at such an angle that it would have barely cleared, thats why I decided to go SD. The only way I would go DD if it were a dual setup, then I would figure it out and make it work.:thumbup:


----------



## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Urwrstntmare said:


> Yeah the progressive would have been real tight, I could have cut the manis at such an angle that it would have barely cleared, thats why I decided to go SD. The only way I would go DD if it were a dual setup, then I would figure it out and make it work.:thumbup:


Curious- The intake ports on a counterflow and a crossflow dont line up. How do you plan to over come this misalignment when creating the single side manifold for your ABA?


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Actually, the ABA and counterflow 8v are really, really close to being the same bore 'pattern'. It's not perfect, but it's close enough to count IMO.


----------



## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

B4S said:


> Actually, the ABA and counterflow 8v are really, really close to being the same bore 'pattern'. It's not perfect, but it's close enough to count IMO.


Interesting. I guess they just look a lot different in pics-


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It won't bolt up, no, but I'm sure both could be cut and welded together . If you think about it, the crossflow and counterflow 8vs are basically the same engine (with minor changes, yes, no purists bother me with details  ), just the intake flipped to the front. The exhaust ports don't change place, so there isn't much room to relocate the intake path really. I'm willing to eat some crow on this, but I can check it out if anyone is interested .

The ABA ports are round, but the manifold casting is a lot thinner than the counterflow stuff, so it looks way off in the pictures.


----------



## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

No need to the eat crow... just having friendly conversation. Pulled out an ABA intake and an 8V gasket. Truly shocked at how close they are. Never would have guessed that-










As you can see even the port shape is damn close! :thumbup:


----------



## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Exactly what I am goingto do, cut the ABA end to the head off and cut the same end off the SD mani and weld them together and plug the injector holes.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> I think I am missing the point?
> 
> A progressive Weber has one 32mm bore and one 36mm bore.
> A Weber 38 DCOE has two 38mm bores.
> ...


 No, you are not missing the point. But here is my view a 38 DCOE will have 30mm chokes , 30*2=60 and a 32/36 progressive does not 32+36=68


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

woodrowstar said:


> No, you are not missing the point. But here is my view a 38 DCOE will have 30mm chokes , 30*2=60 and a 32/36 progressive does not 32+36=68


Oh yeah... completely forgot about the chokes. :facepalm:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Your correct, I know the Weber may do better, that Weber 32/36 is considered very progressive, I'd like a dual DD setup. I didn't see anything when I searched on EBay, I can pick up a single 45 from Dans performance, been looking for a used unit with no luck.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Mr. Mk1 said:


> No need to the eat crow... just having friendly conversation. Pulled out an ABA intake and an 8V gasket. Truly shocked at how close they are. Never would have guessed that-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Damn, that's closer than I thought!


----------



## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Got the new stacks on the 38, have to mill down the keepers a lil bit, the stacks that came with it were molested, if anyone wants them to chop them up for a project, just pay shipping.:thumbup:


----------



## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Here's what I'm lookin at, I think I may be able to get to a band saw tomorrow, stay posted. 


















Everything blacked out goes away.


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Staying tuned


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

B4S said:


> Hmm, the bowls would definitely need a heatshield, if just to keep them from boiling over. If it were possible to angle the carbs up slightly, I'd do that, but you've got to match the way they're mounted on the bike to get them to run right IMO. Maybe replicate the way sidedraft manifolds are done, and make each runner an 'S' shape, going up and away from the manifold?


On the topic of the "S" shaped runners, I thought I'd post this in here. yorgerg is familiar with my manifold from the Bike Carbs thread, but I thought I'd share it here, as well. Granted this is for an ABA, not a counterflow, but it has the runner style B4S was talking about. 



















CNC machined head flange with no injector cut outs, and the runners are pieces of Porsche 928 intake manifold runner. :thumbup:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Very nice work.:thumbup:


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Oh... thats tasty! Nice work!!!! :thumbup:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Started cutting on the manis, broke a blade, gotta get another aluminum blade.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

VERY nice work, BMAN! Hm... I am hoping to go with some ITBs in the semi-near future... maybe I'll contract you LOL


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Can anyone give me some insight on what to tune on my weber 45's. I just got everything up and running and am new to carbs, Im trying to read everything I can and am going to get the Des Hammill book. But Im running a 2.0 16v thats ported and has 296 cams. I got the carbs and the motor as one unit and the PO had them running decent he said. I got the car idling nice at ~1k and around 12.5 AFR. It revs nice and fast and within good afr's. However under load I can barely move along. Once I get moving I can cruise at 2k around 13.0, however if I dig into the throttle at all or try and go above 3k it goes WAY lean, like above 19:1 and then thats as high as my gauge goes, and the car obviously stumbles and falls on its face and cant go anywhere. 
Im running digi 1 for my spark and using it to run my carter fuel pump (digi runs the stock fuel pump) and my pressure is stable at 3psi ( I cant tell if its still stable at 3psi when its under load because the gauge is under the hood:facepalm 
As for jets, all I know right now is Im running 145 mains on F16 tubes, and 55F8 idles, and thats as far as I got them figured out so far as Im still researching.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

the first thing i would do is find out everything in the carbs. jets, chokes, etc. then, what is your timing at idle and about 3500 rpm? just from what you have listed, a 145 main is pretty lean on a 2.0 16v. the other thing i forgot,. what is your compression? if you slowly accelerate from 2000 on up, does it hesitate or go lean. there are 2 tests for you right now. try accelerating slowly from say 1500 to about 4000 rpm. if you have a stumble before about 3000, you will need to change the idle jet. if you have a hesitation after about 3000 rpm, you will need a richer main jet ( probably already need at least a 150 ). anyway, once all that is fine, then, starting again at about 1500-2000 while cruising along, jam the pedal down to see how your accelerator pump is working. if there is a huge flat, or lean spot, you need a richer accelerator pump jet. another thing i forgot. how many turns out are the mixture screws? there is a little work to get carbs initially dialed in but once they are, there arent a bunch of changes that have to be made to them


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

^^^ 
Dude knows what he's talking about :beer:.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

ncbrock said:


> ... Im running a 2.0 16v thats ported and has 296 cams ...
> 
> ... all I know right now is Im running 145 mains on F16 tubes, and 55F8 idles ...


 I can already tell you that with 296s you don't have anywhere NEAR enough fuel. That's about the set-up I would use on a stock 1.8 16v. The idle jets should definitely be at LEAST 55F9s (definitely an F9 air bleed), and mains 155s. That's what we ran in a friend's 2.0 with 288s and it ran ever so SLIGHTLY rich. (actually, that car ran low 13s at the track... it was ridiculous) 

Small steps make BIG differences. Follow candm's instructions and you'll be spot-on.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

thanks for the info, unfortunately I have to go buy jets now, I have a jet kit but only for one carb:banghead:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Anybody got a set of Dells kicking around? I miss my carbs . Even junk ones that need rebuilds would do...


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Anyone have a good source in the US for Weber Jets, and Chokes? Thanks 

Also what specs is everyone running? I looked through the thread and didn't see many people posting there Specs 

Looking for a good starting point on a 9a 16v with 276s 
36mm chokes,55f9 idles, 205 air, 140 mains 
Is what I was thinking, looking for criticism thanks


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

the only things i would change are the main jet and air corrector jet. a better starting point would be a 150 main and a 180 air. allthough not the cheapest place, i would recommend www.piercemanifolds.com. they have been around along time and have everything you will need as well as good service


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I just bought some jets\jet pac from racetep.com. They seemed to have good prices and was one of the few places I could find that actually had a jet pac instead of individual jets. Fast shipping, nothing to complain about


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> Anybody got a set of Dells kicking around? I miss my carbs . Even junk ones that need rebuilds would do...


 I know what you mean.... riding around on this bicycle across America kinda makes you appreciate them even more.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

I have a pair of Solex sitting and rotting, but they need parts. Unfortunatley, they're early carbs and parts are almost impossible =(


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Kind of getting mad at my carbs, got my jet kit in and threw in some recommended jets and its behaving the exact same. Theres no way its not getting enough fuel but anytime I try and accelerate even just moderately it skyrockets lean, the only way to get going is by grandma accelerating. Im starting to think that maybe the digi ecu controlling my fuel pump is cutting out fuel since there is nothing else plugged up to it, but idling & revving i get constant 3psi ( cant tell when driving for obvious reasons) 

Weber dcoe45's on a 2.0 16v with big cams 
main: 155 F16 tubes 
air corrector: 190 
idle: 55 f9 (2.5 turns out) 
pump: 45 (Im thinking i should go way larger on this) 
36mm venturi's


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

ncbrock said:


> Kind of getting mad at my carbs, got my jet kit in and threw in some recommended jets and its behaving the exact same. Theres no way its not getting enough fuel but anytime I try and accelerate even just moderately it skyrockets lean, the only way to get going is by grandma accelerating. Im starting to think that maybe the digi ecu controlling my fuel pump is cutting out fuel since there is nothing else plugged up to it, but idling & revving i get constant 3psi ( cant tell when driving for obvious reasons)
> 
> Weber dcoe45's on a 2.0 16v with big cams
> main: 155 F16 tubes
> ...


 when you accelerate slowly, from idle to about 3000, what happens. also, try turning your idle mixture screws out another 1/4 turn and recheck


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

its fine accelerating slowing anywhere in the rpm range, be from 1k-3k or 3-6k. The problem starts when I try to get out of my own way anywhere in the rpm range at any speed any gear, it just goes off the charts lean and sputters, then once it hurdles past that (takes about 2-3 seconds) at WOT it seems fine as long as my foot it on the floor its at a happy 13.0. But once again it is at any rpm range. I could be at 2k, floor it, goes lean. Or I could be at 4k, floor it and it goes lean. Ill try and get a video later. 

I also upped the main jet to a 165 and air corrector to a 210 just to see what would happen and I get the same results, it didnt seem to make a difference at all afr wise or running wise


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

ncbrock said:


> its fine accelerating slowing anywhere in the rpm range, be from 1k-3k or 3-6k. The problem starts when I try to get out of my own way anywhere in the rpm range at any speed any gear, it just goes off the charts lean and sputters, then once it hurdles past that (takes about 2-3 seconds) at WOT it seems fine as long as my foot it on the floor its at a happy 13.0. But once again it is at any rpm range. I could be at 2k, floor it, goes lean. Or I could be at 4k, floor it and it goes lean. Ill try and get a video later.
> 
> I also upped the main jet to a 165 and air corrector to a 210 just to see what would happen and I get the same results, it didnt seem to make a difference at all afr wise or running wise


 go back to the other main jet and air corrector fo now. you will need a richer accelerator pump jet. they make them as big as a 90, so there is quite a bit of room to work with. also, you can further richen the shot by changing the pump bleed jet, but for now i would recommend just changing your accelerator pump jet. when running 40 chokes, i need a 90 accelerator pump jet with the pump bleed having no hole, meaning that everything from the accelerator pump circuit was shot into the motor with nothing sent back to the fuel well ( which the pump bleed does ). im going to send you an im


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

browsing the exploded diagram on the 45dcoe, whats #48 "Vacuum Take-Off Cover"? Kind of got my hopes up for a vacuum hookup but its probably just nothing
http://www.racetep.com/weber/45DCOE152.pdf


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It is what it says it is. It's a cover for the vacuum port on the carb .

It's MANIFOLD vacuum though, not ported vacuum that a vac advance dizzy needs, so it's still not useful for that. They can be used as a manifold vac source though, and you can buy brass fittings that allow a vac connection.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

candm said:


> go back to the other main jet and air corrector fo now. you will need a richer accelerator pump jet. they make them as big as a 90, so there is quite a bit of room to work with. also, you can further richen the shot by changing the pump bleed jet, but for now i would recommend just changing your accelerator pump jet. when running 40 chokes, i need a 90 accelerator pump jet with the pump bleed having no hole, meaning that everything from the accelerator pump circuit was shot into the motor with nothing sent back to the fuel well ( which the pump bleed does ). im going to send you an im


+1 fo sho.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

B4S said:


> It is what it says it is. It's a cover for the vacuum port on the carb .
> 
> It's MANIFOLD vacuum though, not ported vacuum that a vac advance dizzy needs, so it's still not useful for that. They can be used as a manifold vac source though, and you can buy brass fittings that allow a vac connection.


you use those ports for checking the vacuum flow of each bore for balancing the carbs. most people these days use a vacuum meter that plugs into the intake of the carb, probably because it is cheaper but also is a bit quicker. describe what you have done with your ignition. your problem is most likely there, or as i mentioned before, the accelerator pump circuit


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

my ignition is digi1. Im running without all the fuel injection stuff (obviously). This could very well be the problem as digi1 uses a tps, but not sure on how the ign map is worked on digi. I will be switching to a msd programmable when my taxes come back within this week


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

with 298 cams but not knowing the compression, i would start at about 14 degrees advance at idle ( which with that cam will probably be at least 1200 ), and shoot for about 30 overall by about 3000-3500. if you are not sure what is happening with your ignition timing, get that sorted out before changing your jetting


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Digi-1 uses a MAP sensor for timing...if it's not hooked up, then you're getting TERRIBLE ignition advance. If it is hooked up, then it'll be worse, lol. If it's not getting a steady vacuum signal (average of all four runners), then it will be very jumpy and unstable.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

forgot to mention its digi1 california, which isnt like the desired digi1 for boost and whatnot. Im 99% sure that it doesnt have a map sensor. Either way i dont think it matters and im screwed anyways. I guess Ill be trying to go back to my knockbox until I can get a msd, but my knockbox wiring isnt common so Ill be stuck trying to find info for it again:facepalm:


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## jaydubr (Apr 4, 2006)

alright carb guru's i need some help..cars not running right...specs 1.8 stroker 16v 2086cc,stage 3 head p&p techtonics 268/272 blend cams,electromotive hp-v1 stand alone ign..carter 4070 fuel pump with a 3.5 pressure regulator..eurosport header,,yada yada ...im running 165mains,f16etubes,45 pump jets,55f2 idles..oh and for some reason its better with 155 air correctors...i know its prolly something really easy but i just aint seeing it..idle is not there 1000-3000 is great 3-7 is soso and at about 5k when i let off its pops back alot..oh timing is @ 0 mech,14 init,[email protected] -2 @8k..i know i need a wideband and ive ordered one from a fellow club member..any help would be greatly appreciated...:beer:


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

if Im not mistaken as Im still learning myself, but shouldnt total timing @ 3k be around 32*? 22 seems a little low.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

jaydubr said:


> alright carb guru's i need some help..cars not running right...specs 1.8 stroker 16v 2086cc,stage 3 head p&p techtonics 268/272 blend cams,electromotive hp-v1 stand alone ign..carter 4070 fuel pump with a 3.5 pressure regulator..eurosport header,,yada yada ...im running 165mains,f16etubes,45 pump jets,55f2 idles..oh and for some reason its better with 155 air correctors...i know its prolly something really easy but i just aint seeing it..idle is not there 1000-3000 is great 3-7 is soso and at about 5k when i let off its pops back alot..oh timing is @ 0 mech,14 init,[email protected] -2 @8k..i know i need a wideband and ive ordered one from a fellow club member..any help would be greatly appreciated...:beer:


your initial timing is ok but you need more timing at 3000. like ncbrock said, id change it to 30-32 at 3000. that will really change things. youshould not need 165 mains after you get your timing taken care of or 155 air correctors. probably more like 155-160 main and about 170-180 air jets


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

candm said:


> your initial timing is ok but you need more timing at 3000. like ncbrock said, id change it to 30-32 at 3000. that will really change things. youshould not need 165 mains after you get your timing taken care of or 155 air correctors. probably more like 155-160 main and about 170-180 air jets


I think 155s will just about do it. No matter how big the cam, it's still only a 2.0l with what I'm assuming is reasonable compression


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Update: got a call from the welder, the intake and adaptor is done, so will have that back on Monday. As well I found a 1.8 ltr carb'd head, lucked into this one really! I'm pretty excited to get it, this will make a nice mix with the bubble block, woo hoo!

























:thumbup:


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## jaydubr (Apr 4, 2006)

thanks guys it running a hell of alot better...video to come soonopcorn:


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

IRDangerDave said:


> I think 155s will just about do it. No matter how big the cam, it's still only a 2.0l with what I'm assuming is reasonable compression


IRDangerDave is right. i didnt notice what cams you had but probably a 150-155 should be fine for your motor for a main jet


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## rodperformance (Oct 9, 2010)

*Itb's*

Thanks to all of you guys who posted and helped others,cadmn,b4s,itrdave and many others! Im bookmarking this so when i join the dark side have a good base how to start.right now runing turbo g60 but probably will get seduced by the carbs since i all ways wanted to do so,good luck to all!! Roderick:thumbup:


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

rodperformance said:


> Thanks to all of you guys who posted and helped others,cadmn,b4s,itrdave and many others! Im bookmarking this so when i join the dark side have a good base how to start.right now runing turbo g60 but probably will get seduced by the carbs since i all ways wanted to do so,good luck to all!! Roderick:thumbup:


Trust me, it really is a 'dark side.' I got passed by a nice 2002 the other day and it was making ALL kinds of Weber growling when it went by. Made me miss them


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Same here . I hope tax season is good this year, I want another set to with the 16v I just got . I'm deep into an EFI project (custom-mapping OBD1 ABA management), but I can't stop thinking about the sound of carbs.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I just ordered this sytec linkage, it was cheaper than all the other options out there and looks like a nice piece. Ordered from england it was only about $100. should be here in a week or so


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

ncbrock said:


> I just ordered this sytec linkage, it was cheaper than all the other options out there and looks like a nice piece. Ordered from england it was only about $100. should be here in a week or so
> 
> 
> Uploaded with ImageShack.us


ive always liked the look of that linkage allthough i have a different one. :thumbup:


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

IRDangerDave said:


> Trust me, it really is a 'dark side.' I got passed by a nice 2002 the other day and it was making ALL kinds of Weber growling when it went by. Made me miss them





B4S said:


> Same here . I hope tax season is good this year, I want another set to with the 16v I just got . I'm deep into an EFI project (custom-mapping OBD1 ABA management), but I can't stop thinking about the sound of carbs.


Ere'ere.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Well here's what we have so far, it's gonna be an inch thick so we can countersink the holes.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Counterflow to crossflow adapter? Sweet! I look forward to seeing how it all comes together.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Very interesting :thumbup:. Remember though, that most sidedrafts can only tolerate around 7* of upward angle before issues with the floats and transition fueling arise. A counterflow manifold is going to be angled upwards due to the engine tilting slightly back. Putting it in front might mean you have to shave the adapter a bit to bring it back into spec.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

That's one of he reasons it is being redone and inch thick, for wiggle room!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Awesome, can't wait to see it in action! 

A buddy of mine at a local performance shop (HPAuto.ca if anyone is interested  ) called me up to tell me he was about to order me a set of Wiseco 1.8 8v pistons (13.4:1 CR) that were on closeout with one of his suppliers. I said that it was very nice of him to tell me when he's spending my money...and he said he had just clicked "order now".

Oh darn, looks like I'll be rebuilding my dead 1.8 with some new forged slugs, for my eventual return to carbs. Anyone know if Weber/Dellorto make floats that are E85 friendly? :laugh:.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

It's almost ready, going to powdercoat the stacks, and finish up some odds and ends


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

looks good. what make is the manifold?


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Ok, update:

Got the counterflow to crossflow mani adaptor back it looks great, just what I wanted.
Here it is, the holes to the head are not tapped and the holes from the intake to the adapter is threaded. Had them do an inch thick to be able to countersink as well to give room for a good smooth port transition. Lemme know what you think.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

How are you planning to correct the angle of the head as well as the angle of the manifold? Did I miss something? The motor sits at about a 15* angle (IIRC). Now with it mounted flat on the other side of the head the intake won't the carb be pointing up at a 30* angle?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I think that's kick ass. Taking orders? .


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

I actually though about a good price would be. I though about the angle as well, I'm not sure if it will be that big of a factor. If so it will be back to the shop to correct it, that's HOW you fabricate parts.....trial and error.

First you have to try, then you may err, then you try again til you succeed. At least that's what I was raised on. :what:


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

Urwrstntmare said:


> I actually though about a good price would be. I though about the angle as well, I'm not sure if it will be that big of a factor. If so it will be back to the shop to correct it, that's HOW you fabricate parts.....trial and error.
> 
> First you have to try, then you may err, then you try again til you succeed. At least that's what I was raised on. :what:


Understood. Keep us in loop. :thumbup:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

WILCO.:beer:


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> looks good. what make is the manifold?


home-made manifold, I bought impluse byers old setup


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

here is what im experiencing:banghead: sorry if they are boring


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

not sure what you are saying the problem is. other than a few odd noises and running a little lean on acceleration what is going on?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

still cant accelerate moderately , only slowly, when I dig my foot in it just shoots to lean and sputters\hesitates and wont get past it and even when I hold it wide open. And its just all around lean when accelerating slowly anyways. It gets better after 3 or 4 seconds but it sounds like crap and sputters still on wide open at about 13. Also cruising under 3k is lean at about 15.0.
Im running the msd and ICM now following big caddy's diagram just a locked out dizzy with no retard from the msd, so its running just 32* advance all the time for now until I get this figured out.
Lean cruising is easy to fix with idle jets, but the huge lean spot that I cant overcome is pissing me off, the only thing that I can try is 0 pump exhaust jets, as I now have 80 pump jets.

Watch: 4:05 second vid, also 4:45


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

first, you need to get the initial advance to about 12 at idle, say about 800-1000. then your overall at 32 should be good to start with. next, i would check for air leaks around the intake. then, i dont know if you have 1 of these, but you need to balance the carbs. the german unisyn 1 that plugs into the stacks is quick and easy. after that, then you can start with working on jetting


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Looking for advice here.

I lost my thermo time switch and coolant temp switch...

They aren't being used obviously, does anyone know the thread, pitch to block them off? Or should I just try and find old sensors to block them off? Any ideas or suggestions would be helpful thanks


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

candm said:


> first, you need to get the initial advance to about 12 at idle, say about 800-1000. then your overall at 32 should be good to start with. next, i would check for air leaks around the intake. then, i dont know if you have 1 of these, but you need to balance the carbs. the german unisyn 1 that plugs into the stacks is quick and easy. after that, then you can start with working on jetting


pulling timing to 12 at idle and then sloping it to 32* doesn't affect it as of now. Feels like it runs the same to me. Checking for air leaks will be my next step


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

ncbrock said:


> pulling timing to 12 at idle and then sloping it to 32* doesn't affect it as of now. Feels like it runs the same to me. Checking for air leaks will be my next step


Sorry I've been MIA, sir. The old lady has been having some pregnancy issues on top of problems w/our apartment/landlord, so things have been SUPER crazy. Des Hammil book should be to you this morning. Hoping it helps.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

So is there a good thread on the vortex providing a clear picture of how to set up an ignition system on a formerly CIS-E 1.8 8v (1986 GTI) that is now running Webers? The dizzy is non-vacuum, and the car has the knock box.

The car isn't apart right now, but I'm planning my build, trying to figure out what I need to order for ignition system.

Alternatively, should I get the carbs set up using entirely stock ignition components, then do an ignition upgrade once it's running again?

I'd run the megajolt, but don't want to weld a pinwheel onto my crank pulley. Can megajolt be run using the hall sender in the stock dizzy? Can I do a 3-D timing curve this way?

I have read the Weber book and I have some familiarity with carbs, so the fueling isn't worrying me so much... but how to set up an ignition system on this car using the stock dizzy has me baffled.

Any links to helpful threads appreciated... I've been trying different searches for over an hour, and I'm finding threads with lots of questions and no helpful answers, or stuff for sale.

Thanks guys!


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Hmm... looking at the Megajolt site... adding a trigger wheel and deleting the dizzy is tempting me. I could order a ready-made trigger wheel, drill three holes in it to match my crank pulley, then just do spacers on the three stock crank pulley bolts to hold the whole thing together.

However, then I need to find somewhere to mount the sensor. Hmm.

Anyway, I'd still like to know what can be done to boost the ignition system performance while minimizing the amount of modification I have to do. I don't mind pulling stuff off, but I'd like to minimize putting new stuff on.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

vwgroundpilot said:


> Hmm... looking at the Megajolt site... adding a trigger wheel and deleting the dizzy is tempting me. I could order a ready-made trigger wheel, drill three holes in it to match my crank pulley, then just do spacers on the three stock crank pulley bolts to hold the whole thing together.
> 
> However, then I need to find somewhere to mount the sensor. Hmm.
> 
> Anyway, I'd still like to know what can be done to boost the ignition system performance while minimizing the amount of modification I have to do. I don't mind pulling stuff off, but I'd like to minimize putting new stuff on.


stock cis-e knockbox ignition works fine. Over time upgrade to megajolt as it seems to be the best ignition option out there to me:thumbup:


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

ncbrock said:


> stock cis-e knockbox ignition works fine. Over time upgrade to megajolt as it seems to be the best ignition option out there to me:thumbup:


Thanks for the input... I'm thinking I may do the carbs first and just run the stock knockbox ignition for a while. It already has basic timing curves and knock protection built in for this motor, so I'd be able to focus just on getting the Webers sorted.

As for an MSD or similar... is it really as simple as this?








(Credit to MSD for image: http://www.msdignition.com/assets/0/1281/1282/1283/e7611c1a-3cb9-4eb6-8fa8-f453d6a081f6.JPG)

Is that it, just get a 6AL and the 8910EIS adaptor and wire up as shown?


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

What about this unit?
http://www.msdignition.com/Products...igital/6421_-_MSD-6AL-2_Ignition_Control.aspx

Here's the wiring diagram... the 1986 CIS-E stock dizzy is a hall-effect unit, correct?









Or would it be better to do the previously posted Digital 6AL + 8910EIS, maintaining the factory ignition control and knockbox?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

vwgroundpilot said:


> What about this unit?
> http://www.msdignition.com/Products...igital/6421_-_MSD-6AL-2_Ignition_Control.aspx
> 
> Here's the wiring diagram... the 1986 CIS-E stock dizzy is a hall-effect unit, correct?
> ...


this is the current diagram Im using along with the icm plugged in. Once you get the pin-out for the icm its easy to hook up. I tried running it without the icm and it didnt work so well, but even with the icm wired up now it still doesnt seem to run great. I like that first diagram you posted, Ive never seen that before:thumbup:


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## pigryder (Mar 6, 2009)

hey guys just stopping in to say hi and the sidedrafts are running great in the mk1 :thumbup: 

throttle on fellas


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## lostsurferinbc (Nov 8, 2007)

great thread :thumbup: I have an ABF that will be getting a carbed diet


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

*Coming over to the dark side...*

*W00t!!!*

I have officially ordered the Redline/Weber K407 dual DCOE40 kit for my '86 GTI. 

Also ordered the Malpassi/Filter King pressure regulator+filter from Eurocarb, and a pressure gage for setup tuning. From Pierce Manifolds, I ordered a synchrometer and the DCOE heat shields. Got the heat shields because mine is a counterflow head... the carbs will be sitting above the exhaust manifold.

Next up I'm gonna find the best price on an MSD 6AL Digital and the tach adaptor that allows it to link to the OEM knockbox ignition control module.

W00t! Can't wait to get my new toys in the mail!


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

pics of heatshield? Ive been wanting to make one for mine, but its in the shop and Id have to get a new radiator hose. I want to make something like this to mount before the trumpets (maybe for future plenum plans)


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

because I can get fresh air from the front now due to a different radiator route








By ncbrock at 2012-02-21


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

vwgroundpilot said:


> *W00t!!!*
> 
> I have officially ordered the Redline/Weber K407 dual DCOE40 kit for my '86 GTI.
> 
> ...


Should have hit me up - I get good prices on those K407 kits


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

ncbrock said:


> pics of heatshield? Ive been wanting to make one for mine, but its in the shop and Id have to get a new radiator hose. I want to make something like this to mount before the trumpets (maybe for future plenum plans)


The heatshields I ordered look like this:
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/99003.015.htm

They attach to the bottom of the carb to provide some shielding from radiant heat. I figure it's a good idea on my car, since it's a counterflow 8V. I currently have header wrap installed on the exhaust manifold and I'll be inspecting/repairing/replacing it when I'm in there.


IRDangerDave: Well crap, wish I'd known that ahead of time! :banghead: Oh well, Pierce Manifolds has the K407 for $995, which was better than the other online retailers I could find (everyone else was over $1100). Lesson learned. Regardless, I'm still really juiced about getting these babies installed! I've been wanting to do this conversion for years.

So do you get good prices on all Redline/Weber products? I'm gonna be in the market for jets and other assorted tuning parts here shortly.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

you should be well off with header wrap and that heat shield. I was kind of on one foot about header wrap, but the header I bought with it already wrapped proved me wrong. Keeps temps way down and if your working back there after the car has been running it helps enough so you wont burn the hell out of yourself if you accidentally touch the header:thumbup:


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

ncbrock said:


> you should be well off with header wrap and that heat shield. I was kind of on one foot about header wrap, but the header I bought with it already wrapped proved me wrong. Keeps temps way down and if your working back there after the car has been running it helps enough so you wont burn the hell out of yourself if you accidentally touch the header:thumbup:


Ah yes, another benefit of wrap. The lower heat-transfer rate of the wrap means you have a little bit more margin for error if you bump the mani/headers when it's hot.

I noticed a difference on my CIS-E setup with high-temp/high-altitude performance, too. Car made more power and maintained it while climbing longer with the manifold wrapped. Kept a bunch of heat off the intake runners, which was better for the air charge.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

ncbrock. any update?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

handed it over to a shop that knows what their doing. Havnt called this week but last week he said he made great progress until he dropped his carb sync tool and broke it so he had to order a new one:laugh:. Dont know when it will be back but Im not in a hurry as I have my bmw to drive, but it should be complete soon


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

vwgroundpilot said:


> So do you get good prices on all Redline/Weber products? I'm gonna be in the market for jets and other assorted tuning parts here shortly.


I get a good deal on MOST parts. They take a little longer to get sometimes bc I'm playing middleman, ans I haven't looked at the price list recently (it tends to fluctuate a bit) - but it's usually 10-20% off prices listed on most sites.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Hey guys, dunno if anyone has looked at the FAQ thread, but I posted a question there related to ignition for my carb install that I am hoping for some help on:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1288305-FAQ-Carbs&p=76591919&viewfull=1#post76591919

Thanks in advance! :beer:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

If you've got CIS-E ignition, you can use that with the carbs. The ECU controls the ignition curve.

Personally, I wouldn't touch MSD crap with a ten foot pole, but it's a popular (if misguided) option.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

B4S said:


> If you've got CIS-E ignition, you can use that with the carbs. The ECU controls the ignition curve.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't touch MSD crap with a ten foot pole, but it's a popular (if misguided) option.


this:thumbup: If my car was CIS in the first place I wouldnt have installed the msd, but it was going to be too complicated to wire up the cis-e stuff to my digi car.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

B4S said:


> If you've got CIS-E ignition, you can use that with the carbs. The ECU controls the ignition curve.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't touch MSD crap with a ten foot pole, but it's a popular (if misguided) option.


Hmm. I know it'll work to get it running, but I was hoping to get a more potent spark since I know the fuel won't be as well atomized. I'm not yet ready to make the leap to programming Megajolt. Maybe someday, but right now I don't have to time to fab up a crank pinwheel or sensor bracket and then do the mapping. As it is, I'm hoping to get the carbs on and running by the end of May. I'm undergoing cancer treatment now, and will be going in for surgery in mid June. The prognosis is good, and the carb swap gives me something to focus on to help me ignore the side effects of chemo and radiation. I just don't want to get into the middle of a standalone ignition swap right now. My goal is to have the car running and drivable by the end of May.

Guess I'll stick with the CIS ignition and see how it runs. Will I need to rig up the WOT and idle switches to the carb throttle linkage?

Oh that brings up another question... do I need a different throttle cable than the stock CIS one for connecting to the Webers? The K407 kit says it comes with a throttle linkage, but I'm not sure yet what throttle cable I need.

Thanks for the info!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Damn, you're a tough cookie! Fingers crossed man! 

You don't need to hook up the switches, but you can if you want. The idle switch engages a set timing value, which allows for a more stable idle, since the stock CIS-E ignition uses a MAP sensor for it's load reading. If you've got lumpy cam(s), the idle may hunt. If you are on stock-ish cam(s), then the idle will be fine without the idle switch. The WOT switch is still a mystery, but I think it disengages the knock sensor at high RPM to avoid ignition retard from phantom knock and valvetrain noise. I ran without both switches, got 32mpg, and dynoed at 105whp/119tq on a mild Neuspeed 256 cam and 1.5" exhaust (all on a 1.8 8v  ). Going to a hotter spark did help a lot, but there's no need to dump the stock stuff for a full MSD setup. Even a hotter coil could help, but the stock stuff is more than adequate for fun times . It also takes a variable out of the equation, at a time when you're not going to want to be frustrated, I think.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

B4S said:


> If you've got CIS-E ignition, you can use that with the carbs. The ECU controls the ignition curve.
> 
> Personally, I wouldn't touch MSD crap with a ten foot pole, but it's a popular (if misguided) option.


Dude, do explain why MSD is not a good choice. I'm saving for a programmable msd ignition for my carb setup... but if there are better options, well...


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It's more of a personal biased preference, really :laugh:.

I dislike the fact that MSD products are so expensive, when compared to the same thing in a Jacob's or Mallory brand. As well, they STILL haven't managed to come up with a way to do any sort of 'vacuum advance', which would allow for a bump in fuel economy, even on a carbed car. Sure, it may only be 2-4mpg...but gas is getting up there. They cater to the muscle car crowd, who are still in the dark ages when it comes to tuning ANYTHING. 

The BEST options out there all involve crank-triggered DIS setups currently. Electromotive, MegaJolt Lite Jr, etc. Megajolt is also working on a distributor-controlled programmable ignition, but it's not done yet. 

My biggest beef with the whole MSD-thing isn't really anything against the company itself, it's that no matter how much the carb-heads amongst us preach alternatives that are BETTER...the VW crowd immediately goes for "MSD". It's a peeve I guess, lol. The end result being another person unsatisfied with their car, and the blame goes directly to the carbs and not the ignition system choice, because nobody takes the time to tune it correctly for a carbed setup. An example being that pretty much all carbed engines love to idle around 10-15* BTDC, but people set it all to 6*, and wonder why there's a huge stumble off-idle. Etc.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

B4S said:


> Damn, you're a tough cookie! Fingers crossed man!
> 
> You don't need to hook up the switches, but you can if you want. The idle switch engages a set timing value, which allows for a more stable idle, since the stock CIS-E ignition uses a MAP sensor for it's load reading. If you've got lumpy cam(s), the idle may hunt. If you are on stock-ish cam(s), then the idle will be fine without the idle switch. The WOT switch is still a mystery, but I think it disengages the knock sensor at high RPM to avoid ignition retard from phantom knock and valvetrain noise. I ran without both switches, got 32mpg, and dynoed at 105whp/119tq on a mild Neuspeed 256 cam and 1.5" exhaust (all on a 1.8 8v  ). Going to a hotter spark did help a lot, but there's no need to dump the stock stuff for a full MSD setup. Even a hotter coil could help, but the stock stuff is more than adequate for fun times . It also takes a variable out of the equation, at a time when you're not going to want to be frustrated, I think.


Thanks for the crossed fingers.  Every little bit of positive thinking helps.

So yeah, thanks for the info on the switches. Now that you mention it, IIRC the Bentley does state that the WOT switch disengages the knock sensor so it ignores valvetrain noise at higher revs... because the signal looks a lot like predetonation. I may rig that one up, or try to, at least.

Wish I had some more certain knowledge on the cam. Bought when I was a dumb kid (19), believed the sales guy when they told me it was a "G-grind" cam and supposedly better than stock. I did measure it, and it definitely had higher lift than the one that came out (RD-code engine, late '85 production). Other than that, I have no idea what the specs are on the cam. Had a discussion with a more knowledgeable guy on here and he's thinking it may be an old VW Motorsport cam (based on part number), that is similar to the Autotech 270 Sport cam or the old Hör 270° cam. Whatever it is, it has a slight lope at idle once it's warmed up.

I'm loving those power and tq numbers! Maybe I can be so lucky. Mine is running a factory dual-outlet manifold and downpipe connected to a 2.25" exhaust. "Test pipe" in place of cat, a Magnaflo glasspack for the center pipe, a TT crossover pipe with small resonator, and a Magnaflow straight-through stainless muffler. Flows well, yet not obnoxiously loud. Can't wait to hear it with the Webers!

I agree with getting a variable out of the equation. It's settled... I'll use the stock ignition for the time being. Get the carbs styled and dialed, then maybe next year when the cancer saga is behind me I can think about switching to a fully mappable ignition like the Megajolt. I'd still prefer to keep computers away from my car, but I suppose programming ignition alone isn't too bad. Then maybe someday after I'm used to it I will start to think about doing an MS setup on ITBs. 2.1L 16v on ITBs? That'd be a fun motor.  Maybe someday.

Ya know what I really want to use MS for? Swapping a VR6 into my wife's Saturn Sky roadster. I love that motor, and I love the chassis of that car... it's just that the car has an uninspiring 2.4L NA 4-banger in it now. But given how integrated all the GM crap is, I'd need to go standalone to even dream of running a different motor.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

B4S said:


> It's more of a personal biased preference, really :laugh:.
> 
> I dislike the fact that MSD products are so expensive, when compared to the same thing in a Jacob's or Mallory brand. As well, they STILL haven't managed to come up with a way to do any sort of 'vacuum advance', which would allow for a bump in fuel economy, even on a carbed car. Sure, it may only be 2-4mpg...but gas is getting up there. They cater to the muscle car crowd, who are still in the dark ages when it comes to tuning ANYTHING.
> 
> ...


I see, good points. Now mine: I figure, if that brand is good enough for professional drag racing, it should be good enough for my simple carbs. I did previously own and msd box before, but it got destroyed due to rain. Won't go into details, but I'm still happy with it, so much in fact that I'm saving for a new one. I feel this: the bigger the spark, the more power I can generate, specially at the top end, where it counts... where I think that megajolt (for instance) would suffer a bit cuz they use stock ford coil packs... does it make any sense? I love tinkering with my car, if it doesn't work the way I want it to, I keep at it until it does...


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

pnavarro said:


> I see, good points. Now mine: I figure, if that brand is good enough for professional drag racing, it should be good enough for my simple carbs. I did previously own and msd box before, but it got destroyed due to rain. Won't go into details, but I'm still happy with it, so much in fact that I'm saving for a new one. I feel this: the bigger the spark, the more power I can generate, specially at the top end, where it counts... where I think that megajolt (for instance) would suffer a bit cuz they use stock ford coil packs... does it make any sense? I love tinkering with my car, if it doesn't work the way I want it to, I keep at it until it does...


Would this help?
http://www.jegs.com/i/MSD/121/8241/10002/-1

It's the MSD replacement for the Ford EDIS coil pack.

I'm sure Mallory/Crane/insert-favorite-brand-here has something for ya as well.

Biggest pluses of the Megajolt are fully programmable timing curve and rock-solid timing (sensor reads directly off the crank, no valvetrain lash affecting the timing).

Also remember that the MSD/Mallory/Crane boxes only offer one spark per cycle at the revs where you're actually making power.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Sure, MSD is great for big drag cars, it does indeed work...but it's far from the most efficient option if you want a carbed car that runs as best as it can .

The stock gap for the plugs when using Megajolt is 0.045-0.050"...so the spark is PLENTY hot, trust me . I ran a stock coil originally, with the CIS-E knockbox, and it ran fine with the 0.030" gap, then added a Jacob's Pro-street and had to regap for 0.045". I could idle and cruise a LOT leaner, and eventually got to 32mpg. I noticed ZERO change in idle or cruise AFRs when going to the megajolt, they were exactly the same as the stock ignition w/Jacobs box. 

I'm just offering my experiences, so take them as you will. I just dislike seeing a carbed car tuned half-way. There's no reason you can't have power and economy on carbs, they *were* used for 70 years before EFI came along. Having an ignition system that doesn't offer any ignition advance during cruise is pretty crude IMO...especially when you pay so much for it.


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## pnavarro (May 17, 2009)

B4S said:


> Sure, MSD is great for big drag cars, it does indeed work...but it's far from the most efficient option if you want a carbed car that runs as best as it can .
> 
> The stock gap for the plugs when using Megajolt is 0.045-0.050"...so the spark is PLENTY hot, trust me . I ran a stock coil originally, with the CIS-E knockbox, and it ran fine with the 0.030" gap, then added a Jacob's Pro-street and had to regap for 0.045". I could idle and cruise a LOT leaner, and eventually got to 32mpg. I noticed ZERO change in idle or cruise AFRs when going to the megajolt, they were exactly the same as the stock ignition w/Jacobs box.
> 
> I'm just offering my experiences, so take them as you will. I just dislike seeing a carbed car tuned half-way. There's no reason you can't have power and economy on carbs, they *were* used for 70 years before EFI came along. Having an ignition system that doesn't offer any ignition advance during cruise is pretty crude IMO...especially when you pay so much for it.


This is the sort of information I was hoping for! Thanks, now brace yourself, I'll start asking you a **** load of questions! :laugh:


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

With all due respect to B4S... for those who may like/want/desire a programmable ignition that uses the factory hall-effect sender in the distributor, MSD does offer such a thing now:

http://www.msdignition.com/Products/Ignitions/6530_-_MSD_Digital_Programmable_6AL-2.aspx

Check out the user manual, pages 10-14 for what's programmable:
http://www.msdignition.com/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=15032386168

You can map the ignition curve relative to RPM and vacuum. Using vacuum, you can effectively advance the timing for "cruise" conditions. I'm assuming it's a bit more crude than Megajolt, but I am not sure. Someone who's familiar with the programmability of Megajolt would have to look at it.

From what I can tell, Jacobs ignition products are no longer available in the US , and neither Mallory nor Crane offer a similar product to the one above. Only other option would be a full standalone system such as the Electromotive XDI, Megajolt/E, or AEM F/IC.

I'm kinda juiced at what B4S mentioned, that Autosport Labs (makers of MS and Megajolt) are working on a Megajolt system that can use the factory dizzy and hall sender. I'm hoping they release it within a year, and can get the bugs worked out in short order. I agree with the sentiment that MSD is overpriced and it's kinda sad they're the first brand everyone goes to.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm always ready to eat a bit of crow, so no worries . That is a very interesting product, although if it installs the same way as most of the MSD products (setting the locked dizzy to maximum advance, and you retard the timing with the software), you'll have to set it to 36-40* initially and set it to retard to 32*-ish for WOT. This way you can get vac advance .

I'm going to download the software tonight. The instruction manual doesn't mention anything about advancing the timing, it looks like it only does retard. Either way, as long as you can set it up somehow for vac adv under cruise, it looks like a neat product. Too bad it's probably $$$ . It's an option that doesn't make me swallow my tongue in rage though .

I like their handheld programmer too. No laptop required.


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## lil_squeeker (Nov 17, 2003)

i bought the megajolt jr , and i bought all the ford ignition parts, made my own wires, etc..........so far im $200 in the hole for the change. i made the trigger wheel myself, and stole b4s's power steering bracket idea.

the tuning part will be a small price to pay for a well starting and running 16v on webers. and you can run the ford edis ignition "standalone" for 10 degrees advance just to get the motor started and idling.

money stalled the project but i hope to have it in and running by july.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

B4S said:


> I'm always ready to eat a bit of crow, so no worries . That is a very interesting product, although if it installs the same way as most of the MSD products (setting the locked dizzy to maximum advance, and you retard the timing with the software), you'll have to set it to 36-40* initially and set it to retard to 32*-ish for WOT. This way you can get vac advance .
> 
> I'm going to download the software tonight. The instruction manual doesn't mention anything about advancing the timing, it looks like it only does retard. Either way, as long as you can set it up somehow for vac adv under cruise, it looks like a neat product. Too bad it's probably $$$ . It's an option that doesn't make me swallow my tongue in rage though .
> 
> I like their handheld programmer too. No laptop required.


That unit is ~$375 USD. $100 more than a "regular" MSD 6AL Digital (non-pill type). More spendy than a Megajolt setup, a lot less than an Electromotive XDI.

Yeah, MSD products only retard timing, they do not advance it. You basically run the math backwards... starting with waaaaay advanced mechanical timing, then electronically "retarding" the timing to the desired values for your RPM and manifold pressure maps. They say you can retard up to 20 degrees... so theoretically, you could run 10 degrees advance at start, then up to 30 degrees advance in other conditions.

Yeah, now that I do the math in my head, it's still not flexible enough. One could really use the flexibility of Megajolt. 6 degrees or so for cranking/start, 12 or so for idle, then up to 30+ for WOT and/or cruise. Unless I have my numbers all screwed up for timing on carbs. Since I haven't installed mine yet, I still need to go read up on the ignition timing recommendations in the Carb FAQ and in this thread. All I remember is it was quite a bit more advanced than for FI, due primarily to fuel atomization differences.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

I.R. bummed... Pierce Manifolds is having to wait 'til Monday to receive my carb kit before they can turn around and ship it to me, so earliest I'll get it is middle of next week. 

I can't wait to have that kit in hand.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'd usually run 10* cranking, and 14*-ish at idle. Maximum timing at WOT was usually around 29*-32*, at least in my experience. I've even had dyno sessions that have ended up with max power being made at 28*.


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## Mr. Mk1 (Dec 10, 2011)

All this ignition talk brings up a question- If one wanted to run distributorless/ crank fire ignition, what is an affordable system that is easy to tune (not a computer idiot... just never played with any stand alones).

In the interest of sterilizing my bay I would love to remove my dizzy and move everything under my dash.

Let me know your thoughts? Thanks!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Working on a bike carbed ABA and have been following a lot of the ignition discussion in here. I'll be running a stock CIS-E knock box setup with the idle switch in my '82 Rabbit. Still not quite running, but only a few wires and a carb rebuild away, I'm pretty sure. This is the first I've heard about the WOT switch knock sensor cutout, and it's good info to have. I'd always heard/read it was for full throttle enrichment from the CIS, and also to cut the A/C on A/C equipped cars for max passing power, etc. This is why I keep reading this thread! :thumbup::thumbup: to B4S for sharing so much great knowledge and experience with us all.

Anyways, been helping a friend with his ABA/Dellorto setup on his Scirocco and he's been having ignition issues trying to get it started using the MSD setup that came with the engine/carbs/etc out of the last car it was in. I've been telling him to strip it back down to bare-bones VW ICM to get the car running, for now.

OTH, I'm a big MSD fan, having worked in a speed shop for 5+ years. Don't get me wrong, we sold Mallory, Accel, and Jacobs stuff, too, but sold far more MSD than anything. I just feel they build a better product, build a wider variety of products, and have to say that they have some of the best customer service of any company I've dealt with. Repair costs are reasonable, turn around time was reasonable, and their tech line representatives always seemed knowledgeable and friendly. Are they only game in town? By no means. Does everyone need an MSD box? By no means. I still like their products and them as a company, though.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

YJSAABMAN said:


> :thumbup::thumbup: to B4S for sharing so much great knowledge and experience with us all.


I'll second that! :beer::beer:

B4S, if you're ever down in the Portland, Oregon area, shoot me a message. I'd like to buy you a beer. There is a TON of useful information in this thread.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Working on a bike carbed ABA and have been following a lot of the ignition discussion in here. I'll be running a stock CIS-E knock box setup with the idle switch in my '82 Rabbit. Still not quite running, but only a few wires and a carb rebuild away, I'm pretty sure. This is the first I've heard about the WOT switch knock sensor cutout, and it's good info to have. I'd always heard/read it was for full throttle enrichment from the CIS, and also to cut the A/C on A/C equipped cars for max passing power, etc. This is why I keep reading this thread! :thumbup::thumbup: to B4S for sharing so much great knowledge and experience with us all.


You're welcome . I'm sure that switch plays a role in the fuel enrichment as well. If it didn't shut off the knock sensor at high RPMs, the ignition timing would be pulled waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back by the noisy VW valvetrain. It's most likely to knock at the torque peak, so that gives a couple thousand RPMs that the knock sensor could get over-active.



> OTH, I'm a big MSD fan, having worked in a speed shop for 5+ years. Don't get me wrong, we sold Mallory, Accel, and Jacobs stuff, too, but sold far more MSD than anything. I just feel they build a better product, build a wider variety of products, and have to say that they have some of the best customer service of any company I've dealt with. Repair costs are reasonable, turn around time was reasonable, and their tech line representatives always seemed knowledgeable and friendly. Are they only game in town? By no means. Does everyone need an MSD box? By no means. I still like their products and them as a company, though.


 No doubt, they are pretty much the top of the line in regards to aftermarket ignition, and I don't doubt they have great customer service. I'm not against their products, like I said, it's a personal bias . Their products are incomplete, IMO. An ignition system that cannot vary the timing based on load or throttle position is only good for racing. A system for the street should be able to provide cruise advance in order to increase fuel economy and part-throttle torque. I just dislike seeing people flocking to something without knowing there are more suitable systems out there. You have to pick your equipment based on your needs, IMO.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

I agree B4S! Well I cleaned the bay,rain tray and firewall for about 4 hrs yesterday, then I pulled the old air filters off, gonna clean them up today and then I'm gonna order some AN fittings and braided hose to get rid of all the rubber hose. 

Anyone know what size inlet it is on weber DCOE 40's?










Out wit the old, today, in with the new!


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Gottem on, my hands are raw! :banghead: very nice design, I would recommend these to anyone, the EMPI IMHO were ineffective, the C clamp type fasteners they used always fell off and I would find them on top of my crossmember or control arm, these are on there tight!:thumbup: the gasket was a B to get over the stacks, I thought it would rip but I took my time and massaged it on slowly. I'm eager to hear what she will sound like now, there's a smaller space for vacuum.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Well, I was done for the day and got a wild hair and had this V/C on a South African Carb'd head I got a lil while ago, I like it bett than the G60 V/C, it's unique. 



















Also bought these today 









To fix this, I have a brand new arm and new bolt to replace it. Wish me luck, it's gonna be no fun at all! :banghead:


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

W00t! Got my dual DCOE setup! Also got the Malpassi Filter King (85mm version with the extra port) and a fuel pressure gage, and I have an air flow meter for carb syncing (though it might not fit between the carbs and the firewall). I'm probably also gonna built a manometer type 4-tube synchrometer, I just need to make a hardware store run for a 2x6, a bunch of clear tubing, and some connectors/splices. 

This weekend I'm stuck doing taxes :banghead:... but next weekend I can start tearing into the car! Cannot wait to hear this thing fire up on a set of sidedraft carbs!


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Urwrstntmare said:


> I agree B4S! Well I cleaned the bay,rain tray and firewall for about 4 hrs yesterday, then I pulled the old air filters off, gonna clean them up today and then I'm gonna order some AN fittings and braided hose to get rid of all the rubber hose.
> 
> Anyone know what size inlet it is on weber DCOE 40's?


 You should be able to get banjo fittings with the male AN fitting on the end instead of a nipple. Just take your banjo off and measure the ID where the bolt goes through for sizing. I'd venture to guess someone out there makes a reasonably complete AN style fuel feed setup for the dual Webers, as popular as they are.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Summit sells a handful s well as Jegs, I haven't found any Weber specific though. They go by a certain distance between feed ports. I haven't found the right banjo fittings yet, still looking, that's the next thing I need to do within the next few weeks.


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## VenaGTi (Mar 19, 2006)

maybe this: 
http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-category/fuel-system/goodridge-hose-fittings/2776-06-m12d.html 

with this: 
http://www.burtonpower.com/parts-by-category/fuel-system/goodridge-hose-fittings/2776-1106.html


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks, that's it! :beer:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Found them hell a cheaper here. 

http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/C....html?osCsid=316a3dcb89877c29687c31c56dde5da5


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Well I picked up this from Summit, along with some braided hose and a new spring return. 









Then I went to the Chicago connection and picked up the rest of the plumbing odds and ends, I got this fuel pressure gauge too. 









I grabbed a set of those DCOE heat shields from Pierce Manifolds too


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Got the feed lines off today while I was workin in the bay, she's all ready for the AN sweetness, also got the oil cooler finished up all tweaked. I need one more bolt but that's not a deal Ender. 
I found this pic of the heat shields I bought, this shows how they mount. Sould be pretty sound, I'm still contemplating the super cool can. 

Oh yeah, I found out that what I thought were 40's are 45's! :


----------



## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

Urwrstntmare said:


>


thanks for posting that pic of the heat shield! i was wondering what that would look like. when you get yours, would you mind taking down some basic dimensions so i can try to fab some of my own? i have this old aluminum street sign that i swiped from the local public works graveyard (don't worry, i work there, it's all legal). i'm thinking about making my own and adding some hoodliner material for extra heat resistance. :thumbup:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

You should check out this stuff for an insulator!

http://www.summitracing.com/search/...ne/Moroso-Heat-Barrier-Blankets/?autoview=SKU


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

So I've heard the factory Weber air horns on the DCOE 40's aren't all that great for airflow, and one of mine was dinged when it came from Pierce Manifolds. Wondering if any of you guys have used aftermarket air horns... I was looking specifically for short(ish) full-radius horns that will provide smoother inlet flow and fit under a Pipercross PX600 or ITG JC40/JC50 air filter. I live in really dusty conditions, so I am planning to run one of those filters.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

i got mine awhile ago from twm induction. aluminum, full radius, 35mm air horns. i also have a itg megaflow, single filter setup


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Got some goods in the mail today! 










I got these, I used two of them on a 38 I'm usin on another build and I'm thinkin about using the other two, I gotta grab some metal Tri mesh slip on filters to runnem.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

These guys have all kinds horns for any Weber possible.

http://www.mts-motorsport.com/epage.../Motorentechnik/Gemisch/"Vergaser / Trichter"

Got most of my stuff, still need the rest of the plumbing to get the feed lines on, got the heat shields too.


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Well guys, I've decided in the last few weeks that since I have a kid now I need to put the dubs on the back-burner for a while. I'm selling my MkII =( I'll still be around for moral support =) 

Oh, and shameless plug - I have a set of smoked German MkII Golf tails going to the highest bidder lmao


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

candm said:


> i got mine awhile ago from twm induction. aluminum, full radius, 35mm air horns. i also have a itg megaflow, single filter setup


Yeah, TWM is now Borla Induction, looks like they have 'em for $55 each. Yowsers.

On your ITG, do you know if you have the smaller ITG JC40 or the larger JC50 unit? Those are both megaflow filters, just different sizes.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

I paid $60 for 6 on EBay. But usually they are like $30-$50 a pop.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

vwgroundpilot said:


> Yeah, TWM is now Borla Induction, looks like they have 'em for $55 each. Yowsers.
> 
> On your ITG, do you know if you have the smaller ITG JC40 or the larger JC50 unit? Those are both megaflow filters, just different sizes.


its a JC50. this is what it looks like on my setup.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

a pic of the airhorns. there is a bit more to these than just about any other makes out there, hence the cost. mine are 35mm.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Nice setup, looks great. What brand is that inline? Aeromotive


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

candm: Thanks for the info... and WOW, that is a nice looking engine bay! Not uber-shaved and unusable, but it looks clean and performance-oriented.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

getting there...CBR900RR carbs?ABA/rabbit gti fk tranny, aba serp belt setup.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

You gonna go ABF serp to drop the alt?


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

I like that box that TWM offers as well, look like it would be reversible.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

Urwrstntmare said:


> You gonna go ABF serp to drop the alt?


nope regular aba


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

Urwrstntmare said:


> Nice setup, looks great. What brand is that inline? Aeromotive


the pressure regulator is a malpassi. the filter is one that is available thru www.topendperformance.com but i dont remember the make


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Urwrstntmare said:


> Nice setup, looks great. What brand is that inline? Aeromotive


 Looks like Redline after digging through the link candm posted. 

Here's the link I found: 
http://www.racetep.com/ffilters.html 

Also found them here: 
http://www.redlineweber.com/SEMA2002/html/Fuel_filters.htm


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

I found a nice one kinda like that one but on the cheap side, see here. 
http://www.jcwhitney.com/in-line-fuel-filter-efi/carburetor/p2021891.jcwx?skuId=574708&filterid=u0j1 

After much deliberation about crank case ventilation, I first thought about a 1.5 qt oil accumulator w/ a check valve, decided against that=overkill. Then researched the effectiveness of a catch can, finally decided against that as well. I'm gonna go old school and go with what I know and vent the Crank case via the DP. I'm gonna use the Moroso kit :thumbup: got the same ones on my 62 Chevy C-10! 
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Crankcase-Evacuation-System,50685.html?brandName=MOROSO&page=1


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Arg the pains of riding this bike!!!! Yesterday heard and saw a Mazda RX2 at full song through the canyons. Noisy little bugger.


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> getting there...CBR900RR carbs?ABA/rabbit gti fk tranny, aba serp belt setup.


 Looks to me like your float bowl angle is way off, man. You want that parting line to parallel to the ground, like it was on the bike they came off of.


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Looks to me like your float bowl angle is way off, man. You want that parting line to parallel to the ground, like it was on the bike they came off of.


 if i angle them any more id run into hood interferance. also from the reasearch that ive done and from the way funpig's carbed aba runs, i see no issue with the orientation of the carbs affecting how well it runs....:beer:


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Ok, after wrestling with the braided lines and the AN fittings, I am 90% finished with my fuel feed. After getting it mocked up I need one more 90 AN to NPT. As well the inline is in the mail,i went with some local boys to Colorado, Votion Speed. I still have to fab up a mount for the FPR. 

Out with the old 









In with the new 









I also got rid of the two extra lines coming out of the frame rail, I cut them back and capped them. 
I got my fan shrouds back from the powdercoater, got both style of Passat 16V fans, slimline 11 blade and 4 blade. Couldn't make my mind up on the color so I got one black and one white. Got some 10.4mm Autotech plug wires comin for her too, with a set of mounting bolts for lower stress bar. The Moroso V/C should be done at the coater next week, that will go on with the schrick oil pan. Well see if I have the time or money to get the headliner done this season!


----------



## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)




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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Inline filter came in today, still waiting on a few more fittings before she can drink fuel. Got the fans together today, I'll test fit them tomorrow. Also ordered more wire wrap for the engine harness. 









Here's what the finished product on the wire loom came out, had to get a few more feet, looks real good I think. 

D/S 








P/S


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

yorgerg said:


> getting there...CBR900RR carbs?ABA/rabbit gti fk tranny, aba serp belt setup.


 What distributor are you using?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

MK1 Rabbit GTI said:


> What distributor are you using?


 part number 026905205AH. 1982 rabbit, rabbit conv, mk1 jetta, quantum, scirocco


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## MK1 Rabbit GTI (Jan 13, 2006)

Using the factory rabbit ignition I assume to?


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## yorgerg (Sep 30, 2006)

yes sir. although the advancement on the dizzy will not be functionable, seeing as how i cant seem to find out where ported vacuum is. i can see the hole just behind the throttle flap but does not exit to the outside of the carbs.


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Got the fuel feed just about done, I mounted the FPR today, now I need a hose barb end and I am done.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I'm debating whether to add a map sensor to my msd programmable setup to get some economy back or pick up a dirt cheap megajolt setup fs right now. I havnt even been driving the car that long and its going through gas like crazy and I'm trying to keep my foot out of it


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Fuel lines are all installed and tightened, waitin on a stud from INA and the serp setup will be complete, as well waitin on a set of slimline 16V fans from a buddy and she is runnin, I didn't like the look of the white shroud so I'm goin with the black powder coated one instead.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Love all the red pieces. Not too overwhelming, but adds a nice touch


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Thanks! That's what I thought, I did the coolant lines in red first, then when I decided to replumb the oil cooler I went for the red lines there too. If I had the dough I'd buy some red Samco hoses to finish it off but unfortunately I'm done sinkin anymore money into her this season.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

been slowly tunning my carbs better and better. With my airbox I made the added\more directed airflow to the carbs is screwing up my non-filter tunning. With the filters on it runs top notch all around but when I take them off (the way I want to run them) the added airflow is making it lean stumble on light throttle all around the rpm range.


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## markaviles (Jan 30, 2008)

*msd*



ncbrock said:


> this is the current diagram Im using along with the icm plugged in. Once you get the pin-out for the icm its easy to hook up. I tried running it without the icm and it didnt work so well, but even with the icm wired up now it still doesnt seem to run great. I like that first diagram you posted, Ive never seen that before:thumbup:


 Sir 
is this set up really working for you? I just installed R1 carbs an 16V with just the ICM wiring and it runs but no fast acceleration of the start. will the MSD help with this issue


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

markaviles said:


> Sir
> is this set up really working for you? I just installed R1 carbs an 16V with just the ICM wiring and it runs but no fast acceleration of the start. will the MSD help with this issue


 setup is working quite well. I cant really say if it will help you or not because I dont know if your carbs are properly tuned or not. People have been running fine with full advance (what you have by the sounds of it) so its hard to tell. Make sure your distributor is locked out. It probably wont want to start but thats how you know your getting full advance.:thumbup: 

Most people run the msd stuff to help with starting (retarding the timing) and to get fuel economy back (retarded timing under 3k)


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

She's altogether, gotta grab two more bolts for the oil pan, havin hell gettin the two bolts closet to the tranny on the oil pan in, there's no room at all, I've tried all kindsa methods. As well once she's runnin and aligned I gotta get the flange welded in the down pipe for the crank case ventilation and I will put the Moroso V/C on.


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

maybe this is a stupid question, but does it matter which way a 32/36 DFEV sits on the manifold? just put mine on today and noticed it will mount in either direction. only problem i can see so far is that the elec. choke and the idle speed screw aren't very accessible. I've seen it mounted both ways on this thread alone, anyone have an answer? thanks in advance!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Ideally, you want the 36mm bore at the back of the manifold, facing the firewall. The 32/36 comes in different variations, DFAV, DGEV, DGAV, etc, and each one is oriented a different way. Some have fuel inlet on one side, some have it on the other, some have a water choke, some have electric, etc.


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

B4S said:


> Ideally, you want the 36mm bore at the back of the manifold, facing the firewall. The 32/36 comes in different variations, DFAV, DGEV, DGAV, etc, and each one is oriented a different way. Some have fuel inlet on one side, some have it on the other, some have a water choke, some have electric, etc.


What's the benefit of having the 36 in back? Cause the 32 is the primary and puts it closer? Better flow. Looks like I'll be making a switch then. Thanks!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

No idea really, that's just the way I've always seen them oriented. Could have something to do with WOT fuel flow/dispersion, but I've never really thought about it. Could also be that the smaller bore would be closer to the hottest part of the manifold, so the fuel would atomize better at cruise?


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## Urwrstntmare (Feb 22, 2011)

Scored this old carter inline filter for $2, with an extra bowl.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Cool!


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

ok folks, i've got a few issues with my 32/36 DFEV...i think 

i've tuned it to run at lean best idle according to the instructions on the piercemanifolds website. everything is within specifications as far as idle mix screw and idle speed screw and the number of turns that they're screwed in. so my problem is that the AFR gauge i have is still reading rich.... 










it's kind of blurred, but the needle sits at that spot or higher into the rich zone regardless of the current engine speed, whether i'm just idling or at WOT. as you can tell by the pic, it's just a narrowband o2 sensor and gauge so i understand that it's not as accurate as a wideband is, however, i assumed a narrowband would do the trick since i only need a reading without the ability to adjust fuel trim like a wideband would. are these narrowband sensors and gauges inaccurate? can i trust the reading on it? i pulled the standard shielded wire out of my old fuel injected system and it's on a good ground so there shouldn't be any interference anywhere. also, i just noticed tonight that the needle on the gauge drops more towards "optimal" when i have more electrical equipment on...i.e.- when my blower motor fan is on high it reads pretty much normal or just a hair above "optimal." does that mean i am getting interference somewhere? 

other things to note: 
-the exhaust coming out the pipe varies in smell from a rich smell to a normal smell. this is well after the engine has heated up and the choke has long been wide open/off. 
-the jets that came with the carb are still in there, nothing has been changed because the best idle conditions were all within specs. 
-timing was initially adjusted to proper specs when i finished the engine rebuild and was adjusted a second time to proper specs after the carb was installed. it's currently running on it's standard vacuum advance timing which is linked straight to the port on the carb. (still trying to find time to get my EDIS set up mounted-where can i get new shielded wire for that?) 
-regardless of the "rich" condition, it seems to run rather well, although my fuel economy went down the crapper which is another reason why i'd like to get this figured out. the carb is only on its first tank but i think i'm only averaging about 18-22 which is piss poor in my book. otherwise there are only a few flat spots on hard accel from cruise which i'm hoping the megajolt will take care of. 
-lastly, i haven't gone the old fashion route yet and removed the plugs to check their condition. that's the next step... 

so any input is much appreciated. worst case scenario, i put in smaller jets and test them out by checking my plugs after a few drives. just want to make sure i'm not missing anything though.


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

sooo....no help then? ^^^ anyone? Bueller?


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

A narrowband O2 is only accurate when being used to measure for stoich (14.7:1), anything outside that voltage (.5v usually) and the gauge will only read rich or lean. It could be at 14:1, and the gauge will read rich. It could be at 15:1, and it will read lean. They're really only good for monitoring cruise fueling, if you aim for 14.7:1. I wouldn't trust it for anything other than that specific AFR. 

So, yes, they really are horribly inaccurate . 

I've found that ANY guage will start to read lower when the amperage use of the car increases, so I try to wire them all on their own 12v source. Narrowband O2 gauges are especially sensitive to this, since they do not have dedicated signal conditioners/controllers like wideband O2s do. Again, very inaccurate .


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

B4S said:


> A narrowband O2 is only accurate when being used to measure for stoich (14.7:1), anything outside that voltage (.5v usually) and the gauge will only read rich or lean. It could be at 14:1, and the gauge will read rich. It could be at 15:1, and it will read lean. They're really only good for monitoring cruise fueling, if you aim for 14.7:1. I wouldn't trust it for anything other than that specific AFR.
> 
> So, yes, they really are horribly inaccurate .
> 
> I've found that ANY guage will start to read lower when the amperage use of the car increases, so I try to wire them all on their own 12v source. Narrowband O2 gauges are especially sensitive to this, since they do not have dedicated signal conditioners/controllers like wideband O2s do. Again, very inaccurate .


 well that's unfortunate....thanks for the info though. now if i might ask your personal opinion...after reviewing the pages of this thread i noticed you have an innovate wideband, do you know if the quality of the innovate is way better than the glowshift one?...> http://www.glowshiftdirect.com/Tinted-7-Wideband-Air-Fuel-Gauge.aspx 
i'd just be getting the basic one and both are basically the same price...


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I have an NGK one, not a big fan of Innovate products. I've never worked with GlowShift stuff, but it seems cheezy to me. Personal opinion mind you, I could be wrong.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

I think plx has the best bang for your buck wideband, check it out:thumbup:


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

B4S said:


> I have an NGK one, not a big fan of Innovate products. I've never worked with GlowShift stuff, but it seems cheezy to me. Personal opinion mind you, I could be wrong.:


 woops, sorry for the false accusation. i must be remember a different post... 



ncbrock said:


> I think plx has the best bang for your buck wideband, check it out:thumbup:


 thanks for the tip on the PLX stuff! looks like an awesome gauge set up for the same price at the others i was looking at...i'll for sure be using PLX just so i can get all my info on one gauge!


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## Heisse Scheiss (May 6, 2006)

I have an Innovate A/F that I'm about to install with a wideband O2. Is there anything I should be looking out for?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

Heisse Scheiss said:


> I have an Innovate A/F that I'm about to install with a wideband O2. Is there anything I should be looking out for?


 its a fairly simple install. Just read the directions for proper bung placement so you dont get slightly off afr's


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

ncbrock said:


> its a fairly simple install. Just read the directions for proper bung placement so you dont get slightly off afr's


 Good tip! I have the AEM UEGO setup for both my bike carbed ABA MK1 and my VRT MK2. Haven't installed either of them, yet, so this is good to keep my eye on when doing so! The MK1's header has a bung in it, already, so I'm hoping that one is in a good spot.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Heisse Scheiss said:


> I have an Innovate A/F that I'm about to install with a wideband O2.


 I, too.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)




----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Been a while the thread is dead.

I'm searching for some information I'm looking in old posts etc....

I'm looking for a nice laid out diagram for the CIS-E Ignition for the time being. I received an MSD setup in my kit I picked up, but I have to send it back to MSD because I couldn't get it to spark.

In the time being, can anyone lend me a hand with a diagram of the knockbox wiring everyone speaks so highly off in this thread?


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)




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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

And for this? I need a vac advance distributor from what year saab? Also what is the test lead for ? Thank you.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

You don't need a vac advance distro with that set up, I'm not sure about the test lead.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Awesome, and the vacuum for the knock box, I can tap that into the brake booster?


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

It would be better if you could get it to the manifold but that should work.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> It would be better if you could get it to the manifold but that should work.


I have the manifold tapped for my breaks , so if I T it in from the manifold to the booster, I think I should be okay. I'm going to get my wiring on later, thank you for your help. 










Pics as of last night


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

prom king said:


> I have the manifold tapped for my breaks , so if I T it in from the manifold to the booster, I think I should be okay. I'm going to get my wiring on later, thank you for your help.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No problem:thumbup:

Nice work:beer:
Whats the specs on the motor? I like the mk5 battery box too.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> No problem:thumbup:
> 
> Nice work:beer:
> Whats the specs on the motor? I like the mk5 battery box too.


Bottom is a 9a.
Top is a PL head, rebuilt with factory valves, HD springs, l/w lifters, schrick 276s , tt adjustable gear. I did what I could afford. 
Have a Raceland header, and a TT 2.5 exhaust

Weber 45s , 36mm chokes,55f9 idles, 205 air, 140 mains as a starting point. 

Ignition, I'm going to wire that CIS Knockbox setup when I get home, but I have a 8990 Timing computer, with a MSD Digital 6520 , has a built in 2 step... but I couldn't get it to spark so I'm sending it in to be refurbished.


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

How did your header fit? I have the same one, mine wasnt tall enough an started leaking at the two slip joints


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

oldschool eighty8 said:


> How did your header fit? I have the same one, mine wasnt tall enough an started leaking at the two slip joints


It fits okay... I say okay, because I had to open the slip joint nuts, and pound it down a little to clear the car. I don't know if it leaks yet, because I haven't started the car and I also wrapped it... ugh I might be in for a surprise when I turn it on.


----------



## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

That's what I had to do also, it was hitting the exhaust tunnel underneath. You'll have to get them welded to stop the leak.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Yeap, I can't find my old CIS-E knockbox, looks like I'm waiting till I get the MSD boxes back from them.

I don't know how to do the ICM->Coil-> Distrib basic wiring with no timing advance.


----------



## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

fap fap fap.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

prom king said:


> Bottom is a 9a.
> Top is a PL head, rebuilt with factory valves, HD springs, l/w lifters, schrick 276s , tt adjustable gear. I did what I could afford.
> Have a Raceland header, and a TT 2.5 exhaust
> 
> ...


jetting sounds good except for your main .. i can confirm 140 wont be enough ! you'll need 150 main 99% sure, with these idles, air and mains you will be pretty close of your final jetting. :thumbup: i run a 1.8 16v with the the same stuff in the head except i run supertech valves..I run 55f6 200 air and 150 mains and plug are chocolate brown and wideband is perfect.


----------



## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

prom king said:


> Yeap, I can't find my old CIS-E knockbox, looks like I'm waiting till I get the MSD boxes back from them.
> 
> I don't know how to do the ICM->Coil-> Distrib basic wiring with no timing advance.


there you go ! set a about 15BTDC should get you running fine untill your msd boxes.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

hantonyc said:


> jetting sounds good except for your main .. i can confirm 140 wont be enough ! you'll need 150 main 99% sure, with these idles, air and mains you will be pretty close of your final jetting. :thumbup: i run a 1.8 16v with the the same stuff in the head except i run supertech valves..I run 55f6 200 air and 150 mains and plug are chocolate brown and wideband is perfect.


thank you very much for the diagram.

I have 150s just incase, are you local to nyc>


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

hantonyc said:


> there you go ! set a about 15BTDC should get you running fine untill your msd boxes.


This is awesome :beer: I have one of these kicking around I'd like to wire up and keep in the glove box for a back up.


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

prom king said:


> thank you very much for the diagram.
> 
> I have 150s just incase, are you local to nyc>


no probem ! i am in quebec unfortunaly.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

power taken from fusebox, or is this a switched 12v as well?


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

ive alway taken that power from the fusebox so that the icm and coil power arent the same.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

She lives, very hard start but after that fired right up. Thank you


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Looks like some of you guys have made some killer progress!

I'll be back in a VW soon enough. Picking up MkII Jetta today =)


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)




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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

i would not like to be the guy who try to tune that ... loll


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Look what followed me home 

I'm in desperate need of a transmission for it though, so if any of you know someone w.an 020 sitting around let me know!


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

IRDangerDave said:


> Look what followed me home
> 
> I'm in desperate need of a transmission for it though, so if any of you know someone w.an 020 sitting around let me know!


Very nice, looks like a clean shell!

What motor are you going to be running in it?


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

prom king said:


> Very nice, looks like a clean shell!
> 
> What motor are you going to be running in it?


It is an EXCEPTIONALLY clean body. Scary, even. Going to just leave the counter-flow in it for now and irk the MPGs out of it. Well... as soon as I get a good trans in it :laugh: I can't believe how hard it has gotten to track down an 020!


----------



## themagellan (Mar 30, 2007)

Got mine running... with the help of a funny friend.


----------



## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

*FPR question*

ok, i need to run something by you guys...i've currently got the DFEV set up on my standard JH head (which is a separate mess altogether...what do i do with the old PCV line that runs down near where the injectors used to go?) and it's running ok....a little rich and therefore getting terrible mpgs...when i installed it i put on a brand new carter fuel pump and found a weird FPR for a great price and slapped it on as well. problem was, the FPR has 2 outlets. i ran one to the carb and one to the old steel return line leading back to the tank so i wouldn't have to drop my tank and cap anything off back there. question is...is that ok to do? i know fluids will take the path of least resistance, but the theory behind this is that even if the pressure on the FPR is cranked all the way up, the pump will still pump as much fuel to the carbs as they need and the excess will return to the tank. 

so i need someone to tell me if this is going to mess with my performance. i know it continuously puts a good amount of fuel through a line that doesn't do anything and because of that there is always fuel in the system that can't be used. but i've never had a problem with running the carb bowl dry at high speeds or cornering. anyway, let me know what you think. 

lastly, does anyone know of any good tuning manuals for the DFEV? i'm beginning to regret buying the DFEV based on the lack of info and tuning aids for them...wishing i went with the IDF instead...


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## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

Well, I may be plugging the 2nd outlet after all. I started having issues today with my car chugging like it was either misfiring or not getting the right mixture or not enough fuel. I'm still curious if anyone has any insight on this dual outlet FPR theory though. Anyone?


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Couple of questions...

I hold a nice steady idle at 900 now.

Weber 45s , 36mm chokes,55f9 idles, 205 air, 140 mains as a starting point. 

My carbs are all pulling 10 on my syncrometer...

I don't think this is normal? I have little popping out of the exhaust, and a little poping at the carbs, very rarely underload.

I'm hooking up my A/F ration tomorrow, so I can see if I'm running lean, but I think I am judging by my main size, and what everyone else is running.

I'm a 9a 16v with 276s


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

prom king said:


> Couple of questions...
> 
> I hold a nice steady idle at 900 now.
> 
> ...


you can have the right jets but be lean .. you should be about 2 to 2.5 turn out on your mixture screw and like i told you previously .. install your 150mains you'll need them.


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

What he said:thumbup:


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Ah just went through my jets i had laying around only found two 150s. Looks like I'm placing an order now for some more jets,


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

prom king said:


> Ah just went through my jets i had laying around only found two 150s. Looks like I'm placing an order now for some more jets,


ive got a kit for sale, save some money in the mean time, pm me.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

pmed you about your kit for sale. 

I pulled most of my jets tonight to actually check them and most of them were very different then I expected. 

The tubes are f16s 
Mains and Airs are soldered and drilled out to a custom size. 
Idles are 55F8s 

So I plan on ordering a jet kit to fix the jetting. Which tubes are you guys running or recommend?


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

i run f16 but you can run f15 f16 or f2 if i am correct.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

hantonyc said:


> i run f16 but you can run f15 f16 or f2 if i am correct.


 Awesome. 

So I'm looking to pick up some jets, and or a kit. Does anyone sell a kit? Or should I just piece them together? 

http://www.racetep.com/webjetkit.html 
DCOE Jet Main Kit - Dual Carb 
Dual 44/45/48mm carburetors, venturi range 38-40mm Typical displacement of 2000cc and larger - main jets: (145, 155, 160, 165 -4ea) air jets: (175, 190, 200, 210 -4ea) 

Thinking about picking that kit up for 100 bucks. But this might be way more than I need.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

i wouldnt change the tubes. the onlt time i would change those is after making alot of other jetting changes and you still need a it leaner or richer at a certain spot. i would try 150 main like hantonyoc mentioned, a 180 air jet, and the next richer airbleed on the idle jet, so a 55F9. that should get you very close


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

candm said:


> i wouldnt change the tubes. the onlt time i would change those is after making alot of other jetting changes and you still need a it leaner or richer at a certain spot. i would try 150 main like hantonyoc mentioned, a 180 air jet, and the next richer airbleed on the idle jet, so a 55F9. that should get you very close


 I concur - changing tubes is a last resort. Realistically, you can make a car run well on almost any tube. You would change tubes mainly on a dyno/rolling tune in order to fine tune and irk out peak power. 

You can never have too many jets, though


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> i wouldnt change the tubes. the onlt time i would change those is after making alot of other jetting changes and you still need a it leaner or richer at a certain spot. i would try 150 main like hantonyoc mentioned, a 180 air jet, and the next richer airbleed on the idle jet, so a 55F9. that should get you very close


 Yeah I was curious about the tubes, and I feel more comfortable now that I saw other people using them. 

I am going to be picking up some air jets, now you think 180 would suit me better than the 205s? 

I was thinking of trying this jetting out 
150 Mains 
55F9 Idle 
205 Air 

is 180 enough?


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

205 is going to be a bit lean


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

in y opinion your best bet on the air would be 185-190


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Last night I played a little with the mixture screws waiting for my new jets. I have it set to 8BTDC I think I'm going to move it to like 12, it's still starting a little hard. 

But otherwise, its running and idling great. No burps or hesitation I can tell now.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

little rich on the idle, but sounds good!


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

:thumbup:


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## oldschool eighty8 (Apr 17, 2009)

Sounds great:beer:


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

ncbrock said:


> little rich on the idle, but sounds good!


 
im running theses numbers on idle too , found out that running a bit rich on idle helps having a stable idle but maybe thats just me.


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## DEADheadDOOLEY (Feb 17, 2010)

I am thinking about driving my daily up to big bear for oktoberfest. it s a 2.0 16v with dual dellorto 40's 

its going from south OC (~500ft) to big bear (~6500ft) is it worth it to mess around with the mixture as I am climbing and descending or should I just run it and deal with it running poorly while I'm up there? 

Thanks guys


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

This is prob my favorite thread on vortex, from actual people who work on their cars. :thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm surprised it's made it so many pages, happy though . 

I don't have carbs or a VW right now, but I still check it every day, lol.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

B4S said:


> I'm surprised it's made it so many pages, happy though .
> 
> I don't have carbs or a VW right now, but I still check it every day, lol.


You and me both! Ha, I just returned home from my bicycle ride around the USA. Now it is time for some carb action!


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Welcome back!


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## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

I may as well post mine. 








I like carbs but I think I am going to switch to injection with ITB's


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

prom king
Last night I played a little with the mixture screws waiting for my new jets. I have it set to 8BTDC I think I'm going to move it to like 12 said:


> Miss my rocco so much. Glad all parts live on in a new red mk2 rocco :beer:
> 
> from 3 years ago had bigger cams at the time made the motor sorta flat still did 150whp. swapped back to the shricks after that.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

way to go with the webers. you are spot on in increasing the timing. after that, dont just fiddle with the mixture screws, set them according to what your motor wants. set them all at 21/2 turns out ( as long as they are the spanish made webers ), then, starting with the first cylinder, turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn. if nothing happens with the rpm's, turn it in another 1/4 turn. when the rpm's drop, turn the mixture screw back out 1/4 turn. now go to #2, and so on. when you are done, reset your idle and then rebalance to make sure the left carb and the right carb are flowing the same. you may know all of this but if you had your motor set at 8 degrees then maybe you dont. they need a bit more timing. just trying to help.:beer:


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> way to go with the webers. you are spot on in increasing the timing. after that, dont just fiddle with the mixture screws, set them according to what your motor wants. set them all at 21/2 turns out ( as long as they are the spanish made webers ), then, starting with the first cylinder, turn the mixture screw in 1/4 turn. if nothing happens with the rpm's, turn it in another 1/4 turn. when the rpm's drop, turn the mixture screw back out 1/4 turn. now go to #2, and so on. when you are done, reset your idle and then rebalance to make sure the left carb and the right carb are flowing the same. you may know all of this but if you had your motor set at 8 degrees then maybe you dont. they need a bit more timing. just trying to help.:beer:


I appreciate it ypu guys are all far more knowledgeable then me im still learning. Right now im jetted incorrectly and need to advance my timing. I measured my air correctors with a weber feeler guage i inherited from an old guy lol. They are drilled out to 210. I ordered 180s and new 55F9 idles my mains are at 150 currently.
When i hold at 3500 i lean out completely ( which im pretty sure is the air correctot) so ill repprt back when im 12 degrees btdc and jetted a little more in spec. 

Impluse did you ever read your a/f when you dynoed? I think you were a little lean and could have madeba little more power.


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

I ran 12 degrees initial timing. I would see 13-1 on my a/f sometimes 13.5 if it was cooler out fall/spring wot 7500rpm


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> I appreciate it ypu guys are all far more knowledgeable then me im still learning. Right now im jetted incorrectly and need to advance my timing. I measured my air correctors with a weber feeler guage i inherited from an old guy lol. They are drilled out to 210. I ordered 180s and new 55F9 idles my mains are at 150 currently.
> When i hold at 3500 i lean out completely ( which im pretty sure is the air correctot) so ill repprt back when im 12 degrees btdc and jetted a little more in spec.
> 
> Impluse did you ever read your a/f when you dynoed? I think you were a little lean and could have madeba little more power.


at 3500 rpms, you are using the main jet


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> at 3500 rpms, you are using the main jet


Yeah, but doesn't the air corrector have an effect on the main jet if it's to lean of an air corrector? I know at 3k the main jet kicks in, but doesn't the air corrector have some sort of effect on the main jet?


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> Yeah, but doesn't the air corrector have an effect on the main jet if it's to lean of an air corrector? I know at 3k the main jet kicks in, but doesn't the air corrector have some sort of effect on the main jet?


not at 3500 rpm. say at about 5000-5500, when your air corrector jet starts coming into play,then an overly rich or lean main jet may influence the transition


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

^^  :thumbup:
The main air really comes into it's own once you've reached the point where the engine is using all the reserve fuel in the emulsion tube well. That's when it's effect is strongest.


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## Stephan Schmidt (Dec 18, 2002)

M dub said:


> I may as well post mine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What linkage is that?


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

looks like the one redline\weber sells.


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

i have the same ! got it from dellorto's website


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

BTW, ditch the fram filter. Stick with OE (Bosch or Meyle) or even Purolator filters. Fram tends to be very rerestrictive and can actually cause oil starvation in extreme instances (IE: high rpm usage). Not a big deal on a the average lightly driven daily, but in a hard-driven carbed car with hydraulic lifters... well... ask someone who has used one on a motorcycle to see their repair bill


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Boo, pulled my idle jet and the holder that holds the jet was cracked  Waiting till tomorrow when I get the new holder


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## Stephan Schmidt (Dec 18, 2002)

Is this the SPA manifold? 










What intake manifold do people prefer for the counterflow 8 valves in regards to ease of installation, changing of jets, syncing the carbs, etc..? I won't be removing the raintray, so its a tight fit.

I might be able to get one of these style manifolds fairly cheap (pictured below). Would it be the same manifold for the 40mm DCOE's and 45mm's?

Also, here are the specs I'd like to go with for my carb'd engine build:

2.0L aba block, balanced
Solid lifter head, ported and polished, oversized TT valves, dual valve springs with titanium retainers and 7mm valve guides
306* TT cam
Adjustable cam gear & lightweight intermediate shaft pulley
Compression will be around 11:1
1 5/8 header

Any thoughts for exhaust size?

Now for carbs, I have access to some 40mm DCOE's but I'm thinking I might want to step up to 45's. What are your thoughts? Jetting thoughts? or 40/44/48 mm IDF's?

New to the carb thing, but looking forward to getting this build underway!

Thanks!


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

id for sure run 45's with that setup, sounds like a monster:thumbup:


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Most of the counterflow manifolds I ever had were definitely only for 40mm carbs. They would need to be ported for 45s.


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## Stephan Schmidt (Dec 18, 2002)

B4S said:


> Most of the counterflow manifolds I ever had were definitely only for 40mm carbs. They would need to be ported for 45s.


OK! Perfect, thanks!

I think I'm going to go for the intake that uses side draft webers. It seems to be a much better way to go with the flow from the carbs into the engine being more direct.


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## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

Stephan Schmidt said:


> What linkage is that?


 http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/pm3714.htm


IRDangerDave said:


> BTW, ditch the fram filter. Stick with OE (Bosch or Meyle) or even Purolator filters. Fram tends to be very rerestrictive and can actually cause oil starvation in extreme instances (IE: high rpm usage). Not a big deal on a the average lightly driven daily, but in a hard-driven carbed car with hydraulic lifters... well... ask someone who has used one on a motorcycle to see their repair bill


I have a CM filter for it but I've been lazy and haven't ordered new filters for it so I'm buying cheap filters till I stop being lazy.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Tried the F955 Id jets, looks like I'm going to have to go bigger, I'm about 4-5 turns out before I could get the engine to run. 

I think I should try F860s next.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

more awesomeness


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> Tried the F955 Id jets, looks like I'm going to have to go bigger, I'm about 4-5 turns out before I could get the engine to run.
> 
> I think I should try F860s next.


when you change your idle jet, i would not change both parts at the same time. in otherwords, go up to a 60, but leave the same airbleed ( F9 ). once you get to the point where youare about 13/4-31/4 turns out, then, if it is still a little lean or rich, change to an idle jet with the same number but with the different airbleed portion. by changing both the fuel portion and the airbleed at the same time, you may fix 1 part and screw up the other.make sure that your timing is right before changing your jetting, or you may be wasting time and money trying to jet it properly


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> when you change your idle jet, i would not change both parts at the same time. in otherwords, go up to a 60, but leave the same airbleed ( F9 ). once you get to the point where youare about 13/4-31/4 turns out, then, if it is still a little lean or rich, change to an idle jet with the same number but with the different airbleed portion. by changing both the fuel portion and the airbleed at the same time, you may fix 1 part and screw up the other.make sure that your timing is right before changing your jetting, or you may be wasting time and money trying to jet it properly


I understand completely what you're trying to say and I appreciate it I've reached the point where I feel comfortable with my timing. I am 12 BDTC at idle. Thank you for the help with the idle jets, I'm going to be ordering F960s tomorrow. 
The other thing I wanted to ask about is, I'm still pulling straight 7s across the board on idle @ 900 on the syncrometer. Is that to much?


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> I understand completely what you're trying to say and I appreciate it I've reached the point where I feel comfortable with my timing. I am 12 BDTC at idle. Thank you for the help with the idle jets, I'm going to be ordering F960s tomorrow.
> The other thing I wanted to ask about is, I'm still pulling straight 7s across the board on idle @ 900 on the syncrometer. Is that to much?


are your idle bypass screws turned in all the way? anyway, on my motor with 288 cams and 12.8-1 compression, flows just under 6 and that is with the idle set at 1300. your #s seem fine. it is just a difference of how your motor is set up, cams, compression, etc.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> are your idle bypass screws turned in all the way? anyway, on my motor with 288 cams and 12.8-1 compression, flows just under 6 and that is with the idle set at 1300. your #s seem fine. it is just a difference of how your motor is set up, cams, compression, etc.


Yeah, they even have that locking cap installed on them.










These are also both 3 progression hole carbs. To my understanding the newer ones have 4 holes?


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

you can buy either. mine are the 3 hole also


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## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

i have the 4 holes version, i dont really see a difference with my older 3 holes.


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## onebdgti (Jan 13, 2006)

Ok this may sound like a dumb question but were are you guys getting you rebuild kits for you dual Webers, jets and other parts for the carbs. I bought some carbs 2 years ago and put them on the shelf and I am finally getting around to putting the on my 84 GTI.


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## ncbrock (Sep 28, 2010)

ive always ordered my weber parts from racetep.com they have everything you could need and ship super fast, no complaints:thumbup:


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

like he said above or www.piercemanifolds.com


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Okay still playing with my idle/air mixture screws
9A Bottom End
PL 16v head with some work 276 Schrick Cams ported etc
Raceland Header 2.5 all the way back.
Running Digital 6plus, with the MSD 8980 Timing computer,
Idle timing is set to 12 BTDC 
I have a Adjustable Cam Gear, but I haven't touched it yet...
My Fuel Pressure is set and regulated to 3.5

My problem. I can't get the idle/mixture to set in 2-3 screws. I always have to go 4-5 out, I've tried a lot of different idle jets. I just recently tried F965s last night and I would have thought that .5 turn out I would be rich... or 1-2 turns I would be really rich, but no I put it 4-5 out, and I'm the same with all the other idle jets I have. So obviously I have a problem. At 4 turns out, the air fuel is 12-13 no hesitation and actually runs and sounds great. On WOT it'll hesitate for half a second and then go, the hestiation is barely noticable. 

I'm drawing on the Sycn tool 7 across all four carbs at 900 idle. Should I try and adjust the butterfly to get them to draw less at idle? 

Right now I have 
150 Mains, 180 Airs, F16 Tubes, 45 Pump Jets, 36 Chokes. I have F955 Idle Jets, F855 Idle Jets, and F965s.... I bought those as a test... I ordered F655's from Redline but they won't be here for a few days.

I popped the white cap on the air bypass screws, and they were all screwed all the way in.

Air leaks... I'm going to check for air leaks... I'm prob going to order a new soft mount o-ring kit just to have it around. 

Float Height is the only thing I can honestly say I haven't personally checked myself. What is the correct float height? 

Anybody have any ideas?


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

you measure with the gasket in place holding the top cover. when the are hanging vertical and touch the ball that moves the needle, the # should be 12mm. when they are hanging away from the cover, the # should be 26mm. what chokes are in the carbs and are they new or used?


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> you measure with the gasket in place holding the top cover. when the are hanging vertical and touch the ball that moves the needle, the # should be 12mm. when they are hanging away from the cover, the # should be 26mm. what chokes are in the carbs and are they new or used?


36 chokes and used.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

there was a guy on here that had the auxilliary venturis in backwards. it is possible to do on webers. i cant remember if he was running lean or rich but you might check those. the carbs will have to be pulled so you might as well replace the soft mounts while you are at it. sometimes with old webers they will develop a leak at the throttle shaft bushings but i would wait til you have tried all else. bad needle and seat maybe. the way you have your motor setup, 36 chokes should be fine. you shouldnt have to be out 4-5 turns on your mixture screws.what i have found is that if you are within the range of jets , whether idle, main, or air, and you still have problems, then it is time to look at a different emulsion tube but that is only if everything is ok with the carb and related parts.:beer:


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

prom king said:


> Anybody have any ideas?


 Man, this is wrecking my brain, too.


----------



## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

candm said:


> there was a guy on here that had the auxilliary venturis in backwards. it is possible to do on webers. i cant remember if he was running lean or rich but you might check those. the carbs will have to be pulled so you might as well replace the soft mounts while you are at it. sometimes with old webers they will develop a leak at the throttle shaft bushings but i would wait til you have tried all else. bad needle and seat maybe. the way you have your motor setup, 36 chokes should be fine. you shouldnt have to be out 4-5 turns on your mixture screws.what i have found is that if you are within the range of jets , whether idle, main, or air, and you still have problems, then it is time to look at a different emulsion tube but that is only if everything is ok with the carb and related parts.:beer:


im leaning toward air leak too , when you do the test with carb cleaner or brake cleaner. rpm shouldnt change at all , be sure to have put some kind of right stuff on the intake gasket or it will leak 80% of the time , also look if your intake flange is wraped, happened couple of time with used weber kit, also needle valve are not to pricey, worth the try IMO , also i always ran f16 tubes without any problems, so i dont think thats his problem.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

hantonyc said:


> im leaning toward air leak too , when you do the test with carb cleaner or brake cleaner. rpm shouldnt change at all , be sure to have put some kind of right stuff on the intake gasket or it will leak 80% of the time , also look if your intake flange is wraped, happened couple of time with used weber kit, also needle valve are not to pricey, worth the try IMO , also i always ran f16 tubes without any problems, so i dont think thats his problem.


I ordered the soft mount kit from redline today. 
When you say intake manifold gasket? You mean the one inbetween the head and the manifold correct? If so what kind of sealant ot gasket silicone did you use? I've only ever used that copper spray on stacking headgaskets.


----------



## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

yeah that gasket, use rightstuff.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Last night I had a few mintues to check a few things.

I confirmed I have an airleak from my rubber mounts. I'll report back after I get my new gaskets. But I'm going to have to take my carbs off from the manifold. 
I'm going to do a while your at it, and change the needle and seat. 
http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/79503.200.htm
This the correct size?

http://www.piercemanifolds.com/product_p/98.0178.00.htm

Also picking up one of these to measure my floats.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

prom king said:


> I'm going to do a while your at it, and change the needle and seat.


*STOP!!* Just address the air leak first.

You are trying to diagnosis a problem. Do not go throwing more variables into the equation. Eliminate one at a time. 

also, if your soft mounts require O-rings- I find stock thermostat gasket is the same diameter and thicker.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

woodrowstar said:


> *STOP!!* Just address the air leak first.
> 
> You are trying to diagnosis a problem. Do not go throwing more variables into the equation. Eliminate one at a time.
> 
> also, if your soft mounts require O-rings- I find stock thermostat gasket is the same diameter and thicker.


Yeah I agree. I'll take it one step at a time, and eliminate the air leaks first. I'll give those a look at, I have a bunch of those o-rings. Thank you.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> Yeah I agree. I'll take it one step at a time, and eliminate the air leaks first. I'll give those a look at, I have a bunch of those o-rings. Thank you.


woodrowstar is right. 1 thing at a time. i thought you had already ruled out an air leak and so i was trying to figure out other possibilities. looking at that picture of your carbs now i can see that you are missing 1 of the cup washers on the right as well as the rubber bushing looks old and cracked. that style is called a cosworth style with the rubber bushing and cup washers in between the nut and carb. there is also a thackery ( spring washer ) you can use. i also see in that pic that you are using a misab style soft mount. i never did like those. alot of people dont like the plastic softmounts with the orings, but that is what i use along with the thackery washers. it is really important to tighten the carb mounting nuts equally. if you go with the thackery washers, tighten all the nuts by hand, then turn 1 nut 1 full turn and go to the next one and so on. you stop when they just get tight, but not torqued. at this point the spring washer will just about be compressed. now, go back and turn each 1 back out 1/2-3/4 of a turn. i have done this numerous times without problems


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> woodrowstar is right. 1 thing at a time. i thought you had already ruled out an air leak and so i was trying to figure out other possibilities. looking at that picture of your carbs now i can see that you are missing 1 of the cup washers on the right as well as the rubber bushing looks old and cracked. that style is called a cosworth style with the rubber bushing and cup washers in between the nut and carb. there is also a thackery ( spring washer ) you can use. i also see in that pic that you are using a misab style soft mount. i never did like those. alot of people dont like the plastic softmounts with the orings, but that is what i use along with the thackery washers. it is really important to tighten the carb mounting nuts equally. if you go with the thackery washers, tighten all the nuts by hand, then turn 1 nut 1 full turn and go to the next one and so on. you stop when they just get tight, but not torqued. at this point the spring washer will just about be compressed. now, go back and turn each 1 back out 1/2-3/4 of a turn. i have done this numerous times without problems


Well I got lucky today 









These came in the mail.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

before you fire it up again, i would switch back to theF955 idles and 155 main, then tune from there


----------



## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Just found this in classifieds. Figured one of you crazy kids might be interested 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5857105-FS-Weber-DCOE-40-Carbs-8v-full-setup


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Chokes are installed the correct way, they were facing out with the 36 easily seen. 

You were correct and I had the MISAB gaskets installed, I actually think they weren't torqued down and thats why they were leaking. The nuts weren't very tight and those rubber mounts were shot. 
I took some time to really inspect the carbs inside and out, the insides were very clean, (not like some of the motorcycle carbs I've ultrasoniced lately)

I've never used these softmounts before. Just to clarify I'm going to be installing them correctly. You tighten the nut till it makes contact with the thackery washer making sure all the nuts are equal across the board... then once it makes contact and is tighten, you go back out about 1/2 a turn?


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> Chokes are installed the correct way, they were facing out with the 36 easily seen.
> 
> You were correct and I had the MISAB gaskets installed, I actually think they weren't torqued down and thats why they were leaking. The nuts weren't very tight and those rubber mounts were shot.
> I took some time to really inspect the carbs inside and out, the insides were very clean, (not like some of the motorcycle carbs I've ultrasoniced lately)
> ...


incorrectus. you tighten them past the point where they first make contact, and, as per the info i left (well, im tryin to help someone here ). :beer:


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Sorry was replying to your post on my phone and didn't exactly put what I was trying to say clear. I reread your instructions and I understand better now after I read it again.:heart:


----------



## Stephan Schmidt (Dec 18, 2002)

So I'm building my MK1 Jetta and working on the engine bay and will be running dual Mikuni Phh 44's on a counter flow head.

Question for all of you with a similar set up: 

Should I keep the raintray or not? 

If it makes everything a lot easier to access and work better for tuning, I'll do it. If you've never noticed a problem and don't mind it there I might keep it.

Let me know what you guys have experienced!

Thanks, Stephan


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It makes no difference, in my experience. The firewall is the limiting factor, not the raintray.


----------



## Antikrist~86CGT~ (Mar 24, 2009)

So I'm putting the 5 cylinder coupe back together, and while attempting to R+R the distributor, the fukker practically exploded on me I have a good distributor from a 5 cylinder turbo that I'd like to use, but it doesn't have the vac advance diaphragm like my old one. Will this be an issue?? can I run this one without any headaches? Any input would be greatly appreciated, as I'm really trying to get this done before the new year.:beer:


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

So... When you look through the progression holes with the engine off... Where should the butterfly be in retrospect to the progression hole? Right before correct? I'm just double checking everything.

I'm going to be checking float height tonight, finally got myself a digital caliber.

Another question if someone could clear this up for me.
Balancing carbs... 









I think my carbs are balanced incorrectly, drawing to much air. I just want confirmation I'm doing it correctly. 

The Second screw in the picture one to the right... should be 1 turn into just making contact correct? The same with the middle? Mine were both halfway and pulling about 6-7 on my sync tool.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Yes and no. Balancing - no. Syncing - yes.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> So... When you look through the progression holes with the engine off... Where should the butterfly be in retrospect to the progression hole? Right before correct? I'm just double checking everything.
> 
> I'm going to be checking float height tonight, finally got myself a digital caliber.
> 
> ...


 to start with getting balanced,back out both screws until neither is touching the levers. turn in your main idle screw (the 1 on the right ) until it just makes contact with the lever. now turn the other screw ( the 1 on the left ) until it just touches the lever. now go back to the main idle screw and turn it in 1/2 turn. now fire up your car, get the approximate idle with the main idle screw, then use your airflow meter to bring the second carb, using the balancing screw ( the 1 on the left ) to what the first carb is flowing. just use the inner bore on each carb for this. you shouldnt have to be out on the main idle screw more than about 3/4 of a turn. most of the weber books say to do this with the linkage disconnected, but if you know that your throttle shafts and linkage is not sticking, then i usually leave everything connected


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

Having some trouble getting my carb swap to fire up. I'll see if I can get some advice from you guys. I actually posted in here back around page 10 when I first got my stuff.. :laugh: 

I have 3.5 psi to my FPR. When I open the throttle I can see the pump jets squirting fuel into each of the cylinders. My idle mixture screws are 1 1/4 turns out. The throttle linkage screw is about 1/4 turn in from first contact. 

Had a friend help me to check spark and we pulled each plug and grounded it against the block to make sure it had good spark. 

Jets are as follows.. 
Mains: 135 
Air: 200 
Emulsion: F11 
Idle: 55F9 
Pump: 40


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

VdubyaVR6 said:


> Having some trouble getting my carb swap to fire up. I'll see if I can get some advice from you guys. I actually posted in here back around page 10 when I first got my stuff.. :laugh:
> 
> I have 3.5 psi to my FPR. When I open the throttle I can see the pump jets squirting fuel into each of the cylinders. My idle mixture screws are 1 1/4 turns out. The throttle linkage screw is about 1/4 turn in from first contact.
> 
> ...


 the first thing i would do is change your linkage setup. put that linkage setup on the right carb and get the proper idle lever and balancing screw and lever to make it a center pull setup, between the two carbs. you can run it like you have it but it is not the way that linkage was meant to be setup. if you have spanish webers, start with your idle mixture screws out 21/2 turns, not 11/4. you need about 10 degrees of initial advance for your motor. anyway, good luck


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## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

Well i'm getting closer. It wants to start but something is just a little off yet. 

Ignition timing is about 8 degrees BTDC 

[video]http://smg.beta.photobucket.com/user/97mk3vr6/media/A413F914-0C67-470E-AE3E-84865430EFA4-1793-00000276F75DC298.mp4.html[/video]


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## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

Well i'm exited to say I got it to finally fire up!!! It won't stay running unless I feather the throttle right now but its running! First time its been started in probably 4 years since I bought the car!


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

:thumbup:


----------



## VdubyaVR6 (Mar 8, 2004)

Running and idling now! 

Although I finally bought a compression check kit the other day and my bottom end is definitely in need of a rebuild.. Cylinder #3 only read 50 psi on a dry test and went up to 140 psi on with a wet test.. :banghead: I really just wanted to get it running since I'm moving from PA down to Louisiana for work and they will tow it now for me since its running. 

Although I have no cooling system on it right now but I would like to maybe get something figured out for it. I can't fit anything in front of the carbs with that large intake manifold. What are you guys running? I think I remember reading an older civic radiator to the side? I also need a tach adaptor for my MSD I believe.


----------



## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

*FPR*

so, I have a question regarding my 32/36 progressive DFEV. It's currently running, I've got it tuned fairly well to be burning at 14.7 most of the time, but I'm still getting terrible milage. I've read all over the place that progressive carbs are supposed to average better mpgs. maybe they're only complaring that to the factory carbs and not the MFI that comes standard on GTIs, I don't know. What I do know is that I'm only averaging 20mpg which is piss poor in my book. I was hoping to get closer to 30. 

Anyway, my question is, will not having a fuel pressure regulator affect the fuel economy that I get? Before you go bashing me, I did put a fuel pressure regulator on when I first built it, however, I failed to get one that controls pressure below 4 psi. So I currently have a regular pressure of 3.5-4psi, but even then, all weber carb sites I've seen say that 3.5psi is acceptable, even if it is the max. But, will too much inlet pressure cause more fuel to be forced into the system and be burned and therefore decrease the mpgs? 

So help is appreciated, I'm just looking for a few more mpgs out of tank. TIA


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

So who else is working on Winter projects?


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

prom king said:


> So who else is working on Winter projects?


Me! But it's not the R1 carb'd project, it's the project to fund the carb'd project. :laugh:


----------



## TM87 (Dec 30, 2008)

This:








(not actual pic,stolen from www)

+

This:








(R1 carbs,actual pic)

Into

This:


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

I have a carbed aba going with dellorto's for a mk3 street/track car. 
Literally just got the carbs this morning, along with everything to run on stock management. Have plans of going msd but I'm not sure! 
Just saying hi for now will post pics once I get rolling.


----------



## Jh0104 (Jul 15, 2010)

:thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

This is a great thread. I am thinking of ditching the CIS trash on my 85 cabby 8v.
I was wondering if you can use the stock fuel pump with a FPR on carbs.


----------



## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

oopseyesharted said:


> This is a great thread. I am thinking of ditching the CIS trash on my 85 cabby 8v.
> I was wondering if you can use the stock fuel pump with a FPR on carbs.


I just read in the FAQ section for carbs, that this is a no no because you're going to be restricting the flow and wont have enough fuel volume to keep the float bowls completely full... Whether this is completely true or not I don't know.. But someone on here will know!

But I do have a question about stock fuel pumps as well. Once I install my carter 4070, what do I do about my in tank transfer pump in my late 84 cabby? Do I leave it, or just get rid of it?


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

dougkehl said:


> I just read in the FAQ section for carbs, that this is a no no because you're going to be restricting the flow and wont have enough fuel volume to keep the float bowls completely full... Whether this is completely true or not I don't know.. But someone on here will know!


I would of thought there would of been too much pressure and volume.
Lets see what these carb addicts have to say. :thumbup:


----------



## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

I think what it is is that the use of the high pressure pump plus the regulator will provide the right amount of pressure, but will reduce the overall volume.. at least that's how I interpreted it.. 

But someone will school us sooner or later :laugh:


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

You will want to keep the intank transfer pump to feed the Carter pump, or you risk burning out the Carter pump. 

As for the stock fuel pump, I guess I'll find out, but I know there's at least one other person here on Vortex running R1 carbs with a quality bypass regulator with a stock CIS pump. I have this type of setup, as well, but I haven't fired mine, yet. I'm using an Aeromotive regulator with my setup. The Porsche guys have been using a bypass style of regulator to convert CIS cars to carbs for years. See that here: http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin...ure Control Unit (each) NOTE: Barbed fittings


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

Ill be running a pmo fuel regulator on mine. 
Spent last few weeks collecting rest of what I needed. 
Roll of fuel line. 
Aem wideband for tuning.
Got my Rowland manifold powder coated for some eye candy
















I'm actually looking at installing this weekend. 

On a after though I was told not to hook up my vacuum advance dizzy. Shouldn't that negat vac advance I want and need


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Started the Scirocco for the first time in about 3 months in 30 degree weather... Once I ran the choke for about 2 seconds on each side when she was running she ran and idled perfect. 

Getting ready to do some tuning on the road, and then paint the car in the next few weeks. I can't wait for Spring / Summer.


----------



## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

Though I still need to go to the junk yard and snag a gas pedal to modify it for the sytek dual linkage.
:thumbup:


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

b5blazing said:


> Ill be running a pmo fuel regulator on mine.
> Spent last few weeks collecting rest of what I needed.
> Roll of fuel line.
> Aem wideband for tuning.
> ...


Could you post a link for the fuel pressure regulator you are using?


----------



## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

http://www.roonuts.com/item.php?id=161

Picked up a msd 6al blaster coil and 8000rpm rev limiter yesterday. 
50 deg weekend coming I'm probly doing install this weekend might not wire in the msd right away but will get car up and running


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

So it's in and running, fired up on the first start up.my ignition timing was a little retarted on first start up. I timed it like it was still on FI so I was way off. Shooting fire balls. Rich and retarted! Smiles for days man.:laugh: 
Did some driveway tuning took it for a ride did some more tuning. Still need to sync them though. I have a few issues but most of them are do to not being synced. 
The sound is ****ing amazing. 
I did try and get my msd 6al in the car the other night. Got it in and all wired but car wouldn't start with the msd in. I confirmed spark from the coil to the dizzy but it wouldn't light. Might be my msd plug wire not making good contact with coil. It's one of the universals that you crimp your own ends. 
Other than that I'm happy. 
Anybody try e3 plugs on a carbed set up with good results. I have a set to swap in but just kinda was wondering if anyone else had used them.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Bumping this




























Almost tuneable weather, only reason the stacks and filters are off is because I'm about to "recharge" the K&Ns. 
Wiring is done


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

:thumbup:
Seem to be lacking fenders but bays on piont :laugh:
Ordering different chokes for the dells going 36mm have 32s in car and they don't breath enough for cam and mild port and polish. Going to get the gasket kit and a few extra jets idle and main. Just so I can play a little bit once she is dialed in. 
I also got may spark plug wire figured out :wave:


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## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

I have been using this style tool to sync my carbs for years. Today I bought this style.










The difference is amazing. They cost twice as much but it was worth every penny. When I used the ball style I would have a hard time getting the the ball to rise without the engine wanting to die. the new one the engine doesn't even know its there. I don't know if this has been mentioned before or not but I just wanted to recommend getting one if you use the ball style.


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## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

To the Guy "tuning" with out Of sync carbs ........ Stop.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Anyone have a good tutorial on how to sync and balance dual webers? Or a nice how to I can read?
I must have read the section in " how to properly powertune weber carbs " like 10 times, and there are a few things I'm still not 100% clear on.

But today was a really nice day, and I installed the new soft mount kits on my webers.


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

The tools come with instructions.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

prom king said:


> Anyone have a good tutorial on how to sync and balance dual webers? Or a nice how to I can read?
> I must have read the section in " how to properly powertune weber carbs " like 10 times, and there are a few things I'm still not 100% clear on.
> 
> But today was a really nice day, and I installed the new soft mount kits on my webers.


what do you want to know?


----------



## hantonyc (Sep 27, 2010)

to prom king :

i sold my setup but i still can help again if you need me.


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

woodrowstar said:


> To the Guy "tuning" with out Of sync carbs ........ Stop.


I did it was a fruitless effort waiting on synce tool


----------



## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

TM87 said:


> (R1 carbs,actual pic)


I know it's been covered a million times, but what car is that distributor off of? I always forget whether it's a saab or a volvo.


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## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

From what I've read you can use a sabb 900 distributor and the cap is from a fiat.


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## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

M dub said:


> From what I've read you can use a sabb 900 distributor and the cap is from a fiat.


Cap is a 93 Hyundai scoup turbo


----------



## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

M dub said:


> From what I've read you can use a sabb 900 distributor and the cap is from a fiat.


Yeah after posting this I did some more research and found that it is a saab 900 distributor. And late yesterday I scooped one up. I just gotta get the other style cap for a fiat or a hyundai. Whichever it may be lol.

One more part I can check off my list of things I need to carb my 16v


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Well here it goes, the Scirocco went for it's first ride in about a year today.
And it went fantastic, I have a friend I never figured to ask for help, and he came over and synced the carbs for me, as well as helped me tune them.

The main problem I was having was with my linkage! 








Basically it wasn't snapping back closed. So I kinda ghetto rigged this for the timing being till I make a little bracket.

Only jet I think I'm going to change is the main from 150's to 145s.


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

oh god do I miss that set up my neighbors don't I guaranty that.


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## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

impulse byer said:


> oh god do I miss that set up my neighbors don't I guaranty that.


that is a nice looking linkage setup for a rod style of linkage. most of the time you would have 2 arms coming off the main rod, with each 1 attaching to a throttle lever on each carb. with it setup the way you have it, it becomes a inner connecting type of linkage, which i think, makes adjusting and balancing much easier.:thumbup:


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

candm said:


> that is a nice looking linkage setup for a rod style of linkage. most of the time you would have 2 arms coming off the main rod, with each 1 attaching to a throttle lever on each carb. with it setup the way you have it, it becomes a inner connecting type of linkage, which i think, makes adjusting and balancing much easier.:thumbup:


Once I attached the " return " spring to make the throttle snap back , it was very easy to balance. 
My problem was that it wasn't returning back, and stopped slightly before it was closed.

Once again, thanks again for the help guys :thumbup:


----------



## BROsiah (Jul 25, 2011)

M dub said:


> I have been using this style tool to sync my carbs for years. Today I bought this style.


those are junk...no offense ! IMO carb tune is hands down the best on the market:thumbup:

http://www.carbtune.com/


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

BROsiah said:


> those are junk...no offense ! IMO carb tune is hands down the best on the market:thumbup:
> 
> http://www.carbtune.com/


i use the one he bought, and for checking the flow for balancing, i cant think of a better one. very simple and efficient to use. the carbtune one is kinda cool because you can see all 4 flow #s at the same time, but it takes a little time to setup. along time ago they used very expensive dial indicators that would show the flow#s of all cylinders at the same time. the carbtune is a inexpensive way of doing the same thing.:beer:


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

BROsiah said:


> those are junk...no offense ! IMO carb tune is hands down the best on the market:thumbup:
> 
> http://www.carbtune.com/


Where do you pull vacuum for it?


----------



## b5blazing (Apr 30, 2011)

Waiting for parts from euro carb ltd. 36mm venturis and a few different sized jets and idle jets. :wave: come on post man


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Balanced, running and driving. 
Runs and drives great 

I'll post a video of the car running and driving soon, but there is no windshield. It's pulled for paint. 



















Couple of things left for the engine bay, I'm going to respray the front panel because I scratched the crap out of it installing the engine, leaning on it and tools laying on it. I have to powder the prop rod, and a maybe find strut caps and some other nice pieces to finish the bay.

I wish I had photography skills but I don't know what I'm doing, anyway pretty much ready for paint now. I don't think I'll make it to Waterfest because I HATE WATERFEST, but the condo for H20 is booked already.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

:thumbup:


----------



## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Any of you have a need for a Saab vac advance dizzy? I have one, reman, and no use for it since the new car will be MS3X.


----------



## spddemon313 (Nov 15, 2006)

MegaJolt for sale here! shoot me an offer

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6042810-Brand-new-MegaJolt-T-E&p=81884449#post81884449


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

A quick Google shopping search yielded a bunch of the 4-at-once syncing manometers for reasonable prices.

https://www.google.com/#q=syncing+m...80,d.dmQ&fp=1ae73f3a18ceddb0&biw=1280&bih=685

We had two of those on a '63 Alfa dual cam inline 6 to sync up the sidedraft Webers breaking it in a tuning it on the engine dyno at the machine shop I worked at in college. That was a great day at work, for sure!


----------



## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Little late on the carb sync thing... but still, if you're a cheapskate and/or don't wanna wait for shipping, you can easily build one same-day with parts from the hardware store or auto parts store. Here are some that have been done before (tube-type manometers): 

http://www.r6messagenet.com/forums/...42890-instructions-carb-sync-tool-5-00-a.html 

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/16200-homemade-manometer/ 

http://www.powerchutes.com/manometer.asp 

If you prefer vacuum gages, for a few more $$ you can build this: 
http://www.valkyrienorway.com/Tools.html 

There are other ideas and pics out there as well. Google "DIY carb sync tool" or "how to build carb sync manometer" or similar to find more. 

Hope that helps! :thumbup:


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

I still want to know where you pull vacuum for DCOE carbs. I looked at a few of those DIYs before buying the empi one but I couldn't find a place to evenly pull it from.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

M dub said:


> I still want to know where you pull vacuum for DCOE carbs. I looked at a few of those DIYs before buying the empi one but I couldn't find a place to evenly pull it from.


you need to tap one intake for vacuum. typically, it will be #4, since it is closest to the brake booster


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

I am referring to using a sync tool. You need four vacuum evenly spaced ports for the guage style to be accurate.


----------



## candm (Apr 27, 2003)

M dub said:


> I am referring to using a sync tool. You need four vacuum evenly spaced ports for the guage style to be accurate.


if you look at an exploded view of a DCOE carb, it is a small screw, i believe its #48 or 49, on each bore, up near the throttle plates. if you have a carbtune manometer, they have threaded hose barbs that you screw into those spots on the carbs


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

Well that make more sense looking at the exploded view. Looking at my carbs I can see where they would be but they are not drilled or tapped.


----------



## woodrowstar (Jun 17, 2005)

Darn.

easy on the crack rock


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

:thumbup:

who's going to h20?


----------



## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

prom king said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> who's going to h20?


If I can get my 16v to run past 3k while under a load without droping off to 3 cylinders I will be there lol


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Hmm, having an issue, I'm pretty sure is ground related.

What are everyone's major grounds?

I have a major ground in the raintray for the MSD box, the trans mount, .... Where else or what else should be grounded? I added the MK3 starter bolts that have a little area for a ground, I was thinking of grounding the engine to the frame rail?


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

battery-chassis-trans mount. still cant believe they are still in a red mk2 rocco

miss this car 





glad I still have lots of motor part's and some PH44's.....


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

impulse byer said:


> battery-chassis-trans mount. still cant believe they are still in a red mk2 rocco
> 
> miss this car
> 
> ...


AHH, Mine is just to the Trans mount not the chassis :-x


























I really should take better pictures. Only issue I'm having is charging, and starting, which I'm pretty sure is ground related.


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

Did you make or buy the water flange to the head? I've been wanting to route mine the same way.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

M dub said:


> Did you make or buy the water flange to the head? I've been wanting to route mine the same way.


impulse made it


----------



## fredybender (Nov 18, 2008)

M dub said:


> Did you make or buy the water flange to the head? I've been wanting to route mine the same way.


http://store.blackforestindustries.com/oemabfwa.html


----------



## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

prom king said:


> AHH, Mine is just to the Trans mount not the chassis :-x
> 
> 
> 
> ...


hot as hell!!! I may need to built another...


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

fredybender said:


> http://store.blackforestindustries.com/oemabfwa.html



Thanks, but I already have one from BBM. I just don't want it to come out between the carbs.


----------



## Barelymovin (Jul 20, 2012)

Hey anybody looking to make some cash?
I need an intake to be able to run motorcycle carbs.
I've seen some really nicely done ones on here. Please PM me with photo if you've already made one or any offer to.
Thanks


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

Barelymovin said:


> Hey anybody looking to make some cash?
> I need an intake to be able to run motorcycle carbs.
> I've seen some really nicely done ones on here. Please PM me with photo if you've already made one or any offer to.
> Thanks


I can sell you some leftovers from the runners on mine. I used pieces of Porsche 928 runners with a CNC'd flange. I have a box full of leftover runner pieces. I just don't have time to build another.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

16v or 8v Manifold? I can't tell?


----------



## M dub (Apr 12, 2011)

It looks like an 8V.


----------



## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

That's what I thought the guy keeps says he doesn't know what they are for

_Posted via *Topify* using Android_


----------



## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

prom king said:


> 16v or 8v Manifold? I can't tell?


8V. 16V has oval ports.


----------



## HeliMike (Feb 6, 2010)

Pretty quiet in here so I thought I would add my 2 cents...

Just fried the clutch AND blew the damn head gasket on my Jetta (gawd damn Murphy and his BS) so it's finally time to get off my arse this week and finish putting my setup together.

So I have this:




Going into this: (crappy cell phone pic sorry)




Spec's:

ABA/JH hybrid
Stock OBD1 bottom end being rebuilt (I should be doing it right now but I'm being lazy)
Twin Dellorto 45 DRLA's rebuilt by me mounted to SPA Turbo dual downdraft matched and ported manifold
288 WebCam's camshaft (carb grind) with TT cam gear
Ported JH Solid-lifter head with 42x35 7mm TT valve kit, (springs, retainers etc)
ARP head studs 
TT 4-1 tallblock header and 2.5" stainless exhaust + Borla muffler
Balanced/lightened Intermediate shaft
Lightened flywheel
Forgettin some other stuff but ya get the idea

Megajolt crankfire ignition system is going in whenever I get my arse to the wrecker and get another crank pulley for the machine shop to mount the trigger wheel. 

99% of the work is/was done by me and only me, except the mounting of the trigger wheel. Used to be a big aircooled guy that's why I wanted to use the downdrafts as a bit of a homage to my aircooled days. That and I absolutely despise sidedrafts for some reason but to each their own. 

All built for maximum fuel mileage and driveability :laugh:

I'll get some before and afters as well as a build thread going in a couple days.

Cheers!
-Mike


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

HeliMike said:


> Pretty quiet in here so I thought I would add my 2 cents...
> 
> Just fried the clutch AND blew the damn head gasket on my Jetta (gawd damn Murphy and his BS) so it's finally time to get off my arse this week and finish putting my setup together.
> 
> ...


Digging this setup a lot! Can't wait to see it all together! :thumbup:


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## HeliMike (Feb 6, 2010)

Thanks dude :thumbup:
Not sure how long the car's gonna be driveable once it's all together though. 
Pretty sure my 020 is gonna be nothing but a pile of part numbers once I get it back on the road. :laugh:


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## VWGTX86 (Jul 20, 2009)

*My setup still needs improvement but it does the job...*

Hello guys its been a process to get the most out of the carbs still need to look into a few things but here is my carb setup, i still need to look into a Dis ignition system or Mega setup ill get to that soon hopefullly.

any feedback on how to improve the way the gas cable is setup i would appreciate it or any input is welcomed.

info about this build:

Model 1986 GLI 
Small bumper changed
complete Stock ABA swap with dual Mikuni carbs
9A gearbox
4-2-1 headers
2" straight out the back muffler
cheap coils jiji for now...

pics:

What it looked like

































how its coming along:

































the beast  :


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I'm back .

More carbness coming soon...


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## impulse byer (Mar 8, 2003)

Whahahaha! they always come back!


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Still around


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## IRDangerDave (Sep 22, 2010)

Good to see you guys still kicking


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

It might be a while before I spend on my carbs. Found out last night that both strut towers and 3/4 of the floor need repairing on my Caddy project. Looks like I should start a 'The all-welding fume diet' thread, lol.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

So, I've given up on the caddy and bought a local 87 GTI 16v (still 1.8 16v!). I sold this guy all my dellorto jets/chokes/tubes years ago, as well as a set of DHLA40s (non-emission), so I get them all back! It comes with a Rowland 16v DCOE manifold and a top-mount linkage that he bought, so I'm pretty stoked. Should have pics up next week.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

B4S said:


> So, I've given up on the caddy and bought a local 87 GTI 16v (still 1.8 16v!). I sold this guy all my dellorto jets/chokes/tubes years ago, as well as a set of DHLA40s (non-emission), so I get them all back! It comes with a Rowland 16v DCOE manifold and a top-mount linkage that he bought, so I'm pretty stoked. Should have pics up next week.


Oh nice!

I'm looking to finally switch to top mount linkage this winter.


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## mk2gtig60 (Jul 15, 2010)

Working on this


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I got my carbs back tonight .


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

B4S said:


> I got my carbs back tonight .


Niceeeeee


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Non-emission, three-hole DHLA40s, pretty much my dream carb. The emissions versions are super nice, but.I find they lean out at top end, and have very few etubes available. These will be going on my 1.8 16v, stock cams, so they'll be a good fit . I've got some 35mm chokes of I want to go up (on 33s currently), but I like midrange torque . 

The top-mount linkage I have is a Sytek one, and it seems a bit flimsy. I may make my own and use their parts .


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## onurB (Nov 4, 2010)

Looks like we have something similar, I have a pair of 40C's waiting in a box in the basement.

Suscribed.opcorn:


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

I'm back! Been off fighting farking cancer. Had my third surgery to remove another nodule of this ****e. Success! Maybe we're done with the life-and-death game of whack-a-mole now? Knock on wood.

I'll be on chemo this fall, so things will be slow. But, I am planning to putter on the 86 GTI project. I had the original 020 rebuilt by Vince at vwtransaxles.com. Peloquin diff, brass synchros, taller fifth gear, new ring and pinion... the works. It's getting the BFI lightweight clutch and flywheel setup when it goes back in. I also have the USRT heim joint linkage kit for it. 

So yeah... I'll be getting the trans in, test drive it a little on the failing CIS, then it's out with the fuel infection! I'm tired of scrounging for ridiculously expensive parts for an obsolete fuel injection system. After reading about the struggles of the mid-80's Ferrari guys, pretty sure the ethanol in the fuel has ruined the fuel distributor. In the old Ferrari world, they're losing Bosch CIS fuel distributors to internal corrosion of all the precision surfaces due to the ethanol in the fuel. It no likey aluminum castings. The Webers will actually be easier to maintain in the long run. Spend the time on a good setup, then rock and roll. So anyway, I bought the dual 40 DCOE setup about 2 years ago now. It will finally be getting bolted up. After reading some great info from Jim Inglese, I'll do a bench setup first. Then move to in-car setup and tuning. Bench setup will entail checking the floats, inspecting each jet/component for proper size and installation, checking the initial set points for all adjustments, etc.

I am going to start with the OEM dizzy and knockbox ignition. I may move to something higher power at a later date

I was going to use the in-tank transfer pump with an FPR. Recent reading seems to indicate that's not good enough? Do I need to go get the Carter pump? I am not going to bother trying to use the CIS high pressure pump. It's coming off. I could fashion up a mount for the Carter back there if need be.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Wow! Congrats dude, my virtual fingers are crossed in your direction .

I'm honestly not sure about the in-tank pump anymore. A local racer here ran one on his ABA/Mikuni 44 setup for a while, but I don't know if he faced any issues or not. He said it all worked well...but, who knows what he left out.

There's no harm in having the in-tank feed an inline, especially since they're both going to be high volume, low pressure.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Thanks, man. Yeah, we've had many fingers crossed and prayers going up around the world (literally... including friends in the UK, Nigeria, and The Philippines). Never hurts to have more people praying and thinking positively! The surgery was a smashing success, so we have high hopes for the future.

Anyway, back to the cars! You know what this thread needs? More videos. I latch onto each video for precious motivation. The sound of that carb'd Scirocco on the dyno was very inspiring. This will help keep me motivated to get the carb swap done. I need to focus.

Been distracted lately with the Chevrolet SS sedan. 415HP, 415 ft-lbs. LS3 V8. Rear wheel drive. I really need to get back to the garage and get cracking on the GTI. The problem is that every other car I've been driving lately has been an uninspiring automatic, and the GTI is up on stands with the transmission out of it. I really, really miss my clutch and mixing stick. I really miss rowing my own gears. I love the sound and control feel of a stick shift. Crap... been shopping for everything from a well-used/cheap Miata to a Corvette Z06. The Subaru Outback just ain't an inspiring car, even with the bigger 3.6L flat-6. The Saturn Sky is more fun, but it's also a slushbox, which really kills that car's character. It needs a stick and clutch, badly. Not my choice... the car was wifey's before we met.

Anyway, to get my mind away from purchasing a $45,000 sedan, I am trying to get back up to speed on the VW carb world. Been reading up on tuning Webers. I really hope I am able to get the fuel lines run and hooked up without trouble, and likewise the ignition. I'm really nervous about the ignition. Very thankful for the wiring diagrams on here of basic knockbox ignition with carbs.

So I was gonna make a 4-tube manometer for balancing the carbs. I have a newer set of 40 DCOEs... Any tips on getting them hooked up? I see one user here that the ports were not drilled and tapped for hose barbs. Dunno why, but I have this irrational fear of tapping threads.

Okay enough yakking from me for now. More videos, guys! We need more videos! These things sound amazing.


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## vwgroundpilot (Mar 7, 2004)

Ooh... I can only hope mine sounds this good:

http://youtu.be/biOLQPPsXnY

I'm a bit baffled though... that look like a reverse crossflow head? What kind of head is that? I didn't know VW made a crossflow where the exhaust came out the front and wrapped under.


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## [email protected] (Dec 8, 2007)

hard to say what displacement is that engine, could be 1,1 (Mk1 golf) or 1,05 , 1,3 (mk2) or maybe 1,4 , 1,6 (mk3).
but the head (valve cover) is an older design found in mk1 and 2


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## onurB (Nov 4, 2010)

vwgroundpilot said:


> Ooh... I can only hope mine sounds this good:
> 
> http://youtu.be/biOLQPPsXnY
> 
> I'm a bit baffled though... that look like a reverse crossflow head? What kind of head is that? I didn't know VW made a crossflow where the exhaust came out the front and wrapped under.


1.1 L, stated in the comments by OP.
Sounds great for sure :thumbup:


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Local craigslist score for 200

I need to find linkage now.

Also decide what to put them on


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Temptation, thy name is carburetor.

Good score. Any info on the jetting?


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

B4S said:


> Temptation, thy name is carburetor.
> 
> Good score. Any info on the jetting?


I haven't even taken it apart yet. I was told they were rebuilt 5 years ago, and were for some lost project.

I'm going to take em apart and check. I just did the preliminary checks, no binds, everything was clean and there.

I already put the call into wolfcreek looking for linkage and some parts. I'm going to overhaul and rebuild them.

I have a Dilbas Manifold I scored a couple of months ago.

Going to have to do some research on the jets for Mikunis though, I have my powertune weber and delltoro book, but they don't even mention Mikunis lol.
I'm curious to see what chokes and stuff are installed on these too!


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## ca180 (Jun 19, 2011)

prom king said:


> I haven't even taken it apart yet. I was told they were rebuilt 5 years ago, and were for some lost project.
> 
> I'm going to take em apart and check. I just did the preliminary checks, no binds, everything was clean and there.
> 
> ...



Nice. I've got a 16V Rocco I just picked up that was converted to DRLA's... oddly enough... but that engine is going in my Euro Golf MK2. I've also got Solex's. Mine are the ADDHE 40's. Please post updates. I'm definitely interested in sharing progress


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## kydish (Jan 5, 2013)

*-*

https://www.facebook.com/permalink....399460&notif_t=like&notif_id=1459603478227237

Got the car running , But im having trouble getting the tacho to work , I have tried connecting the red/black from (-) of the coil to gray & white in the MSD 6al with no success.

G1/12 Red/Black (coil) or Green/Black (ECU)

http://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html

I have CE2.


Cheers :beer:


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

You probably need an MSD tach adapter. The most popular seems to be the 8920, though someone else can prob answer you with first hand experience.


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## kydish (Jan 5, 2013)

YJSAABMAN said:


> You probably need an MSD tach adapter. The most popular seems to be the 8920, though someone else can prob answer you with first hand experience.



Ok , Will try one if i don't get it working soon , Thanks for the help


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

Bumping an old thread...

Don't know who is still around...

Changing manifolds finally to my dilbas manifold.

Anyone know anything about this linkage?












This is the only picture I can find online of this linkage that's offered by Redline...

Redline sells this, and he sent it to me, said it's the most popular, but I can't find any other pictures of it installed in cars lol.


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

prom king said:


> Bumping an old thread...
> 
> Don't know who is still around...


Ill be here soon. Im barely on page 17 but work is slow so... Im getting my little 1.6l all carb'd up and hoping I can find all my answers in the next 20 pages. Hope you get that linkage question answered. Id send that B4S guy from the first few pages a message. Seems he is the all-knowing guru here.


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## B1-16V (Aug 5, 2002)

prom king said:


> Anyone know anything about this linkage?


So, I thought I'd sort of introduce myself to this thread. I've been an occasional poster on this forum for many years, but not terribly active. I've been working on a very long-term project, and I'm still in the parts collection phase. I have a 1976 Dasher, and I'm installing a 2.0 16v with dual Webers. Just today I picked up my order of the Red Line K 409 kit at the local VW shop.

And I was looking at the linkage that you just showed, and I am wondering the exact same thing. The instruction sheet that comes with that linkage kit is very poorly written, but it does mention that if you don't have a ball end throttle cable, you have to order a different kit and you have to drill out that ball and get another part that adapts to your cable.


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-T...y-Redline-6-ft-long-Weber-Carbs-/271570364188

That's what you need.

I'm in the process of blasting, and cleaning my carbs now. I'll keep this thread updated, with pictures and questions.

Let's start it up again.


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

B1-16V said:


> So, I thought I'd sort of introduce myself to this thread. I've been an occasional poster on this forum for many years, but not terribly active. I've been working on a very long-term project, and I'm still in the parts collection phase. *I have a 1976 Dasher, and I'm installing a 2.0 16v with dual Webers*. Just today I picked up my order of the Red Line K 409 kit at the local VW shop.


You are my hero. Do you have any pictures?!


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## B1-16V (Aug 5, 2002)

dougkehl said:


> You are my hero. Do you have any pictures?!


Very long term project sadly. I'm embarrassed to say the year this project was started. Life has pulled me many directions.

So, I started out planning to use a European Audi 80 16v intake manifold. The original Sirocco intake was a definite NO for hood clearance. I ended up finding the Audi intake, and mocked it up. It does/would fit, but requires thinner motor mounts, which would put my finned aluminum oil pan (Audi 80 GTE) very close to the cross member. And change the CV joint angle.
So, for several years now I've been dreaming about dual Webers, and I've finally pulled the trigger and have them. I've got 2 different Polo distributors on the way. 
At this point I'm still part collecting. Hope to be back at this project very soon.

Here's some pics of a very over-restored Dasher. 
The side markers have been shaved, as well as the side molding holes.
The battery tray used to be in front of the firewall, but I moved it to the "rain tray" to make room for the 16V distributor. 
The brace that you see on the passenger shock tower was grafted in from a donor car's driver's side.


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

Don't be ashamed of how long it's been a project. It looks fantastic and it's going to be killer with that engine in there. 

I'll be eagerly awaiting updates on this!


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

Couple quick questions for you veterans in the carb area...

I have a 32/26 Weber
4-2-1 header
G grind cam from TT
fitting it to a 1.6l from my caddy 

Looking into the Megajolt system, I stumbled on this NODIZ stuff. Has anyone dealt with this stuff yet or mainly just the Megajolt? Seem like they are claiming it doesnt need the VR sensor? What would this system read if there isnt a sensor? 
https://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/zetec-nodiz-complete-kit.html

Secondly, was this the 36-1 wheel you guys have used or were yours special fabricated? 
http://www.tech-53.com/product-p/361trg.htm


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

The Dubbernaut said:


> Looking into the Megajolt system, I stumbled on this NODIZ stuff. Has anyone dealt with this stuff yet or mainly just the Megajolt? Seem like they are claiming it doesnt need the VR sensor? What would this system read if there isnt a sensor? I wrote that down wrong, It doesnt need the EDIS system. Still needs the 36-1 and sensor.


Either way, has anyone except the 1 youtube video used this on an 8v yet?


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

The Dubbernaut said:


> Looking into the Megajolt system, I stumbled on this NODIZ stuff. Has anyone dealt with this stuff yet or mainly just the Megajolt? Seem like they are claiming it doesnt need the VR sensor? What would this system read if there isnt a sensor?
> https://motorsport-electronics.co.uk/zetec-nodiz-complete-kit.html
> 
> Secondly, was this the 36-1 wheel you guys have used or were yours special fabricated?
> http://www.tech-53.com/product-p/361trg.htm


To me that NODIZ seems maybe like a little further developed Megajolt because it doesn't require the Ford EDIS module and has a few other features that seem good.. However to me it still seems that you will need to use a trigger wheel with a VR sensor otherwise you've got nothing to read from like you've said.. But because they show it on what appears to be a slightly newer Zetec engine, it probably has a factory internal crank trigger and stuff.. It seems like a well thought out system, so I say try it out. I love my Megajolt set up, but if I was in the market for needing another ignition only ecu I'd highly consider this.

Also, the Tech-53 wheel is a great product. Fred made the very first one for my engine and I had great success with it so he decided to make it a product! Plus if you send him your pulley he'll mount it up for you so there is no questioning anything, just make sure to loc-tite the bolts or do what I did and weld them so they can't come loose once you have the trigger wheel set up and verify that the engine runs correctly.

Here's that trigger wheel on my engine.
IMG_20150512_190441_444 by dougkehl1, on Flickr


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

dougkehl said:


> To me that NODIZ seems maybe like a little further developed Megajolt because it doesn't require the Ford EDIS module and has a few other features that seem good.. However to me it still seems that you will need to use a trigger wheel with a VR sensor otherwise you've got nothing to read from like you've said.. But because they show it on what appears to be a slightly newer Zetec engine, it probably has a factory internal crank trigger and stuff.. It seems like a well thought out system, so I say try it out. I love my Megajolt set up, but if I was in the market for needing another ignition only ecu I'd highly consider this.
> 
> Also, the Tech-53 wheel is a great product. Fred made the very first one for my engine and I had great success with it so he decided to make it a product! Plus if you send him your pulley he'll mount it up for you so there is no questioning anything, just make sure to loc-tite the bolts or do what I did and weld them so they can't come loose once you have the trigger wheel set up and verify that the engine runs correctly.


Yeah, I corrected myself after I reread that site. I thought it was a damn good product because it eliminated the need for that additional EDIS box. My lean toward this setup is all the preprogrammed maps for different carbs/cams/upgrades! it seems like this company has a large amount of product development. Im having some alignment issues with the hillbilly'd motor I pulled from my truck right now. I want to do the serp-belt conversion but i need to research what cars to pull the setup from. Then Ill send in the pulley for T53 to mount it. Thanks for that confirmation Dougkehl!


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

Got crazy lucky at the Pull-A-Part this weekend. Got the entire serp-belt setup AND found a 95 Jetta with the 36-1 crank wheel! Someone had a bunch of money into that little black car because the head was gone, control modules were gone and the pistons were aftermarket. Looks like they blew a hole through the #3 piston and said screw it. Spent 99$ buying an impact gun and $17 at the yard for this stuff, and a couple other bolts and mounts to complete the kit. Now I just need to find time at work to make a sensor bracket!


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

What is the correct coil to use with the carb setup? I remember reading about it somewhere but cant seem to find the info. Its a specific Bosch coil for carb's?


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

The Dubbernaut said:


> What is the correct coil to use with the carb setup? I remember reading about it somewhere but cant seem to find the info. Its a specific Bosch coil for carb's?


I suppose it really depends on what management you're using for spark.. For instance you did get extremely lucky to find that 36-1 trigger wheel and VR sensor/bracket assembly in a junkyard!! But if you are using that I assume you're using some form of standalone ignition like mentioned earlier? I use the 36-1 wheel and a Motorcraft/Ford EDIS4 wasted spark coil pack and that thing provides a great spark. I'd assume you could do it with something different, but the EDIS4 coilpack is certainly tried and true with the trigger wheel and standalone ignition systems like Megajolt, Megasquirt set up for spark only and that NODIZ that you posted about earlier.


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

dougkehl said:


> I suppose it really depends on what management you're using for spark.. For instance you did get extremely lucky to find that 36-1 trigger wheel and VR sensor/bracket assembly in a junkyard!! But if you are using that I assume you're using some form of standalone ignition like mentioned earlier? I use the 36-1 wheel and a Motorcraft/Ford EDIS4 wasted spark coil pack and that thing provides a great spark. I'd assume you could do it with something different, but the EDIS4 coilpack is certainly tried and true with the trigger wheel and standalone ignition systems like Megajolt, Megasquirt set up for spark only and that NODIZ that you posted about earlier.


Ok, so pardon my elementary knowledge of the carb ignition possibilities but, since I will be running a coil pack with the NODIZ system, is a coil necessary? With the NODIZ/Megajolt systems you do not need a coil due to the 36+coil pack setup correct? 

NOW, if I understand the ignition flow sequence correctly it would be...
36 wheel - sensor - NODIZ/MJ - coil pack - wire - plug - spark

Thanks for being the remaining all carb diet guru :laugh:


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

The Dubbernaut said:


> Ok, so pardon my elementary knowledge of the carb ignition possibilities but, since I will be running a coil pack with the NODIZ system, is a coil necessary? With the NODIZ/Megajolt systems you do not need a coil due to the 36+coil pack setup correct?
> 
> NOW, if I understand the ignition flow sequence correctly it would be...
> 36 wheel - sensor - NODIZ/MJ - coil pack - wire - plug - spark
> ...


Yes, if you are running a coil pack with NODIZ/Megajolt you do not need another coil. The 36-1 trigger will tell the ECU where the crank is relative to TDC on cylinder 1 and the ECU coil drivers will then send a trigger to their corresponding bank within the coil pack at the proper amount of degrees BTDC at which point the coil releases the burst of electricity to the spark plug.

So yes this is correct as well: 36 wheel - sensor - NODIZ/MJ - coil pack - wire - plug - spark


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

What are the throttle cable options that work best for everyone? I took that 02/trip box thing out and I remember reading somewhere in this about people finding correct length throttle cables. Tips or links would be mucho appreciado!


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## dougkehl (Nov 30, 2011)

I've always just used the stock Volkswagen cable from my 8v that was originally in the car.

IMG_8269 by dougkehl1, on Flickr


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## YJSAABMAN (Jun 28, 2006)

The Dubbernaut said:


> What are the throttle cable options that work best for everyone? I took that 02/trip box thing out and I remember reading somewhere in this about people finding correct length throttle cables. Tips or links would be mucho appreciado!


Do you mean speedometer cable? That's what has the service counter box in it. You can get a 1 piece cable from places like GAP.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


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## The Dubbernaut (Feb 1, 2010)

YJSAABMAN said:


> Do you mean speedometer cable? That's what has the service counter box in it. You can get a 1 piece cable from places like GAP.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


YUP! I was on a road trip this weekend and I realized I asked for the wrong cable lol

I meant the speedo cable. Thanks for catching that.


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