# The Smoking Tire: A3 Review



## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VPKpjy55ow


Good review, and brought up some good points....


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## The DarkSide (Aug 4, 2000)

I've watched some of his reviews before and did not come away terribly impressed.. some of the fluff he mentions sounds dumb. Especially the comparisons to the VW brand.. imo. Crazy how high the suspension is.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

As someone who seriously considered buying an A3 until he checked it out very closely in person, I'd have to agree with pretty much everything Matt said.

When I optioned out a European version of this car I was in love. After sitting in one in the backroom of an Audi dealership in early March, well over a month before the public unveil, I bought a CC R-Line.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

I was very excited about this car.
But since they've arrived here, not so much.
Lots a negative reviews.
Most of them are spot-on, as this one is.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

The DarkSide said:


> I've watched some of his reviews before and did not come away terribly impressed.. some of the fluff he mentions sounds dumb. Especially the comparisons to the VW brand.. imo. Crazy how high the suspension is.


what exactly do you disagree with?
take off your audi tee shirt and reply.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

It's interesting he felt the trunk (quattro) and cabin were spacious (or something to that effect).


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Chimera said:


> It's interesting he felt the trunk (quattro) and cabin were spacious (or something to that effect).


when I saw an s-line A3 at the auto show in february, I said the trunk looked big.
the old hatchback 8P trunk was really small.


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## KnockKnock (Jun 30, 2005)

I've not seen other Smoking Tire episodes, but he comes off sounding overly subjective and cynical. All the pros are back-handed compliments, all the cons are exaggerations (Fusion is better). Snarky. Controversy for argument's sake. Basically immature. So I salt those opinions heavily. Too bad I clicked and gave him the web traffic.

Yeah, it's expensive, but the CLA is a bit mutant.... Those school daughters are customers too.... Does it not look better than a GTI? Does anyone have as good a Nav?

Booo. :thumbdown::thumbdown::thumbdown:


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## analytics51 (Feb 22, 2014)

What a bunch of hot air.....


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## BeBop! (Jun 18, 2009)

I like how he immediately dismissed the 1.8T as being a feasible option. He does have a point about choosing a GTI over the base A3 though (probably does drive better). 

The comment about high school girls wanting the car is also probably true.

Matt knows his stuff, he does this for a living and has driven many Audis.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

I honestly didn't find it to be particularly negative. Were it not an Audi, his opinions would've been much rosier, I imagine. That is, his biggest complaint seemed to be, in many more words, that the car wears the Audi badge. Try to tune out the Audi-specific vitriol, and you have a review of the car on its merits- and it's largely positive.

1) Comparing the car to a Golf and a Fusion is asinine. A Golf is a hatchback, and a Fusion is a larger car. The Fusion represents a fantastic step forward for Ford, but it's still way behind the Audi, if only for fit and finish.
2) He yammers on, incessantly and disingenuously, about the USB "issue" but fails to mention that there are cables available for anything you could need. Further, at least some trim level of the A3 has a USB charging port in the armrest. I'll give him this one, though- USB would just be more straightforward than the proprietary cables they currently use.
3) Shift paddles are part of the $850 sport package, not the Prestige-mandated S-line package; brother, get your mess together.
4) He even mentions in the comments that he's jaded. Temper accordingly.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

BeBop! said:


> I like how he immediately dismissed the 1.8T as being a feasible option. He does have a point about choosing a GTI over the base A3 though (probably does drive better).
> 
> The comment about high school girls wanting the car is also probably true.
> 
> Matt knows his stuff, he does this for a living and has driven many Audis.


2nd you on high school girls wanting the car. I saw one with her mom at the launch event locally. They were sitting down with the salesman to discuss numbers later on during the event. The daughter seemed pretty excited.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

RyanA3 said:


> I was very excited about this car.
> But since they've arrived here, not so much.
> *Lots a negative reviews.*
> Most of them are spot-on, as this one is.


R&T. What else? Not this one; pay close attention to his commentary on the car (_not_ the brand), and you'll see it's lukewarm at worst and fair to vaguely positive at best.

This guy at least admits he's jaded by Audi. Jason Cammisa has no excuse other than putting out amateur work. He may not be an amateur, but his work doesn't help him show otherwise.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

BeBop! said:


> I like how he immediately dismissed the 1.8T as being a feasible option. He does have a point about choosing a GTI over the base A3 though (probably does drive better).
> 
> *The comment about high school girls wanting the car is also probably true.*
> 
> Matt knows his stuff, he does this for a living and has driven many Audis.


Sure- and we care, why? I don't understand why people get worked up over this. I also don't understand why it's perceived to be a slight against a car's worth or capabilities.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

I partially agree with the review. I mean, I have stated in other threads before....the 1.8T FWD A3 isn't a very "good deal". There are better VW products that are on par and are significantly cheaper or better for the same price....such as Jetta 1.8T, Golf VII 1.8T, GLI edition 30 and GTI VII.

Though, I can see why one might want a 1.8T FWD over these options IF he/she wants a nicely proportioned compact sedan. The Jetta is too big and the Golf is a hatchback.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

caliatenza said:


> 2nd you on high school girls wanting the car. I saw one with her mom at the launch event locally. They were sitting down with the salesman to discuss numbers later on during the event. The daughter seemed pretty excited.


A MkIV Jetta was a difficult enough back seat for a little bump 'n' grind; why high school girls continue to want cars with small back seats is beyond me, but more power to them.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

Dan Halen said:


> A MkIV Jetta was a difficult enough back seat for a little bump 'n' grind; why high school girls continue to want cars with small back seats is beyond me, but more power to them.


Heyhey, the Jetta IV is still the best looking Jetta.


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## trueunion (Apr 15, 2008)

I love how this guy compares Audi to a Ford lmao. Audi do come in with dual power seats and the technology is far better than you get in a VW when it comes to Navigation. I had a golf R loved the car but the fit and finish do not compare to the Audi. The 1.8 engine is great for the price. 

The 2.0 Quattro is awesome. Power and design love the lines on the Audi A3👍👍👍👍👍👍

Bottom line, is buy what you want and be happy !!!!


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

I have saved every review of them. And most are not thrilled. 

Seriously why doesn't it have a USB? I realize it's a stupid complaint to get hung up on. He talks about that for a minute. But it is ridiculous.


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## NickAH337 (Oct 12, 2005)

Matts daily driver was an S5 for a while. Not sure if he currently has one though.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

RyanA3 said:


> I have saved every review of them. And most are not thrilled.
> 
> Seriously why doesn't it have a USB? I realize it's a stupid complaint to get hung up on. He talks about that for a minute. But it is ridiculous.


It's funny he mentioned the USB thing. I really don't care, beucase it's not like I smoke and there are about 5000 different $3 aftermarket lighter USB plugs availabe, but I did find it funny that in the A3 launch swag bag, they gave me an A3 branded USB plug adapter for the lighter socket. Cute, but I immidiately asked to myself why there isn't one in already the car.

And so far as the fusion comment is concerned, I agree with him that the Fusion has better aesthetic design chops, but it's not a great car, IMO. 

the biggest single comment I see levied against the A3, and I see it in a lot of reviews, is that the car is mediocre. It does nothing in a singular, stellar way. It doesn't even hold it's $29,900 promise in a stellar way. What it does do well is carry 4 rings on the grille, which quite frankly, would appear to have been the primary design objective of the vehicle.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

I also test drove the Fusion and considered a GTI, not sure why he can't compare them. Fusion price overlaps the A3 depending on specs and they are both mid size sedans with the Fusion being bigger. So the GTI is a hatchback, both are made by the same company, both have similar overall dimensions, similar power, etc. If I was considering the FWD 1.8T A3 I think the GTI is a better buy.

I also don't see why the "high school girl" comment is such a knock. Pretty sure all of the small European sedans are something a high school girl wants. Guessing a 3 series, 2 series, CLA, or C class are also popular if they can get their parents to buy it.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> *I also test drove the Fusion and considered a GTI, not sure why he can't compare them.* Fusion price overlaps the A3 depending on specs and they are both mid size sedans with the Fusion being bigger. So the GTI is a hatchback, both are made by the same company, both have similar overall dimensions, similar power, etc. If I was considering the FWD 1.8T A3 I think the GTI is a better buy.
> 
> I also don't see why the "high school girl" comment is such a knock. Pretty sure all of the small European sedans are something a high school girl wants. Guessing a 3 series, 2 series, CLA, or C class are also popular if they can get their parents to buy it.


Maybe the average car-buying public kicks more varied tires than I do. When I buy a car, I have a specific short list of wants, one of which is always body style and general size. Me shopping an A3, a GTI, and a Fusion wouldn't be much different than a more average buyer shopping a Suburban, a Rav4, and a Cruze; ergo, what's asinine to me isn't as asinine to the clueless buyer, I suppose.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Dan Halen said:


> Maybe the average car-buying public kicks more varied tires than I do. When I buy a car, I have a specific short list of wants, one of which is always body style and general size. Me shopping an A3, a GTI, and a Fusion wouldn't be much different than a more average buyer shopping a Suburban, a Rav4, and a Cruze; ergo, what's asinine to me isn't as asinine to the clueless buyer, I suppose.


I disagree. I believe you are being close minded. We all know you're REALLY into the A3. That's fine.

But the GTI, Golf R, CLA, A3 TDI, A3 2.0T, S3, A3 1.8T, 235i, and other cars are all going to be cross shopped here. You just saw a guy (noob here) come from a Corvette to the new A3 2.0T. 

Me? not the Fusion, lol. But look, that car reaches $35k. Some people are looking at wheel base, drivetrain, hp, transmissions offered, lease numbers. Not everyone is a VAG loyalist. Not everyone is on forums 24-7 looking at car talk. Some people are leasing cars, some of which are expensed for business. Some are brand loyal, some are brand snobs. Some are more into budgeting their dollars wisely.

People cross shop various models. It's subjective.

For most, the way you have to build the A3, $45k is a lot, for this car.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

RyanA3 said:


> I disagree. I believe you are being close minded. We all know you're REALLY into the A3. That's fine.
> 
> But the GTI, Golf R, CLA, A3 TDI, A3 2.0T, S3, A3 1.8T, 235i, and other cars are all going to be cross shopped here. You just saw a guy (noob here) come from a Corvette to the new A3 2.0T.
> 
> ...



I agree.
I came form $40K+ 2008 C350 Mercedes and Yes it was time for a new car and I crossed shopped the CLA but not a ford fusion or a VW. I looked at the A3 , CLA, BMW 2 series, Landrover evoque(used) and a BMW X1. I know it is a way off range but I am a ironman triathlete and needed to see what's out there. I chose the Audi A3 because :

1)it came with a lot of standard features (were I would have to add those as extra's in other models)
2) I picked a basic 1.8 one because I do not care for all the bells and whistles
3) Audi is a German car and has reputation
4) Price 
5) MPG is awesome coming from a C350
6) comfortable seats and nice MMI screen
7) fun to drive in sports mode


The reviewer is trying to segment this car for teenage girls ( what a dumb ass)


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

time to update your profile! ^


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

RyanA3 said:


> I disagree. I believe you are being close minded. We all know you're REALLY into the A3. That's fine.
> 
> But the GTI, Golf R, CLA, A3 TDI, A3 2.0T, S3, A3 1.8T, 235i, and other cars are all going to be cross shopped here. You just saw a guy (noob here) come from a Corvette to the new A3 2.0T.
> 
> ...


You read into my statement something that wasn't there, but cool- go ahead.

As for the bold part, I agree- and were I looking at an A3, I may look elsewhere. $45,000 is a lot for an A3, but $52,000 is more than fair for an S3, IMO. I'm in no way implying that my buying habits are representative of the public at large; in fact, I stated very clearly in my previous post that they aren't. The S3 will be a niche vehicle, purchased only by those who have a fairly narrow scope of what they want in a car. 

You truly believe that someone is going to cross-shop an A3 1.8T and an S3? Get real. Of course, your definition of "shopping" may differ from mine. It's not shopping if you're half-heartedly kicking tires, IMO. The A3 1.8 and S3 are probably going to be separated by _at least_ $12,000, or 40% of the A3 1.8 base price. Maybe that's the distinction to be drawn here- one's definition of "shopping."

I'm not going to shop an F150 Lariat and an F150 King Ranch. It's just not going to happen. Anyone who says they are doing so doesn't know what they want. If that fits your definition of "shopping," cool. I like to think it's wise to know your parameters at least slightly before engaging in the act of shopping- and price, at least in terms of cars, is a major parameter.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> The reviewer is trying to segment this car for teenage girls ( what a dumb ass)


I don't think the guy's a dumb ass in the least; quite the opposite, actually, as I think he's probably got good reason to believe this car will be an item of desire for school girls.

I don't know what his background is re: construction of an axe to grind with Audi, but he's at least honest enough to admit that he's jaded when asked about it in the comments of the video.


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## livestrong191 (Nov 18, 2013)

Dan Halen said:


> I don't think the guy's a dumb ass in the least; quite the opposite, actually, as I think he's probably got good reason to believe this car will be an item of desire for school girls.
> 
> I don't know what his background is re: construction of an axe to grind with Audi, but he's at least honest enough to admit that he's jaded when asked about it in the comments of the video.


Did you see the size of that guy(not height) but fat belly to steering wheel ratio .


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

Dan Halen said:


> You read into my statement something that wasn't there, but cool- go ahead.


if that's the case, my bad.



Dan Halen said:


> You truly believe that someone is going to cross-shop an A3 1.8T and an S3? Get real. Of course, your definition of "shopping" may differ from mine. It's not shopping if you're half-heartedly kicking tires, IMO. The A3 1.8 and S3 are probably going to be separated by _at least_ $12,000, or 40% of the A3 1.8 base price. Maybe that's the distinction to be drawn here- one's definition of "shopping."


fair points.

but I don't think it's a stretch to say people will check out the GTI, Golf R, A3, S3. Big range there, but still. It'll happen, IMO.

cheers


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

livestrong191 said:


> Did you see the size of that guy(not height) but fat belly to steering wheel ratio .


:laugh:

I didn't make a particular mental note, but yeah, I guess I noticed in passing. Maybe that's what's needed to put the suspension at an acceptable stock height. :wave:


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

RyanA3 said:


> if that's the case, my bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, and that's probably still a lot narrower than some of the more simpleton car-buying public, sadly. I've helped commoners buy cars before; it ain't pretty. 

That's not meant to sound derogatory; rather, we've surpassed their level of wishy-washiness and indecision simply by signing up on automotive forums.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Dan Halen said:


> You read into my statement something that wasn't there, but cool- go ahead.
> 
> As for the bold part, I agree- and were I looking at an A3, I may look elsewhere. $45,000 is a lot for an A3, but $52,000 is more than fair for an S3, IMO. I'm in no way implying that my buying habits are representative of the public at large; in fact, I stated very clearly in my previous post that they aren't. The S3 will be a niche vehicle, purchased only by those who have a fairly narrow scope of what they want in a car.
> 
> ...


I'll bet someone who's shopping an A3 will cross-shop a nicely appointed Jetta or Golf/GTI or even a Focus or a Fusion. and I'll likewise bet that anyone shopping an S3 will likewise cross shop a WRX STI or a Focus ST. For the entry price of an S3, I'd even bet they'd look at an A4 P+ with something like the black optics sport package, which is pennies away from an S3.

you can't just assign an invisible barrier at the 'premium brand' threshold for cross-shopping. I'm sure there's a segment of the shopping public out there that want a compact premium sedan with lots of extra-cost options that looks oddly like both a Jetta and an A4 that can be priced out to be higer than both and they only want an automatic and are willing to shell out $400-600 a month to get it. 

I just don't know many of those people.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Dan Halen said:


> Maybe the average car-buying public kicks more varied tires than I do. When I buy a car, I have a specific short list of wants, one of which is always body style and general size. Me shopping an A3, a GTI, and a Fusion wouldn't be much different than a more average buyer shopping a Suburban, a Rav4, and a Cruze; ergo, what's asinine to me isn't as asinine to the clueless buyer, I suppose.


My favorite is when the Audi fanatic tells others what they should consider and labels them clueless when they don't agree with him. 

I briefly considered the S3 but based on what you get for the money (if estimates are correct) and the unknown wait for it I decided against it. I bought a CPO ATS last week and looked at it as a cheaper alternative to the A3 and especially the S3.


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

FractureCritical said:


> I'll bet someone who's shopping an A3 will cross-shop a nicely appointed Jetta or Golf/GTI or even a Focus or a Fusion. and I'll likewise bet that anyone shopping an S3 will likewise cross shop a WRX STI or a Focus ST. For the entry price of an S3, I'd even bet they'd look at an A4 P+ with something like the black optics sport package, which is pennies away from an S3.
> 
> you can't just assign an invisible barrier at the 'premium brand' threshold for cross-shopping. I'm sure there's a segment of the shopping public out there that want a compact premium sedan with lots of extra-cost options that looks oddly like both a Jetta and an A4 that can be priced out to be higer than both and they only want an automatic and are willing to shell out $400-600 a month to get it.
> 
> *I just don't know many of those people.*


Right- that's my point about the S3. I suppose a distinction I failed to make is my belief that, while the A3 and S3 are fundamentally the same car, they're going to be shopped by two entirely different groups.



dmorrow said:


> My favorite is when the Audi fanatic tells others what they should consider and labels them clueless when they don't agree with him.
> 
> I briefly considered the S3 but based on what you get for the money (if estimates are correct) and the unknown wait for it I decided against it. I bought a CPO ATS last week and looked at it as a cheaper alternative to the A3 and especially the S3.



Hey, if you want to use my statement as an opportunity to project meaning or intent that isn't there, go ahead. I've helped appliance buyers buy cars before. They're all over the map. When it comes to what they want and/or need, they're clueless until a) someone tells them or b) they kick so many tires they're just "over it." While the example of a Cruse, a Rav4, and a Suburban is at the extreme end, it's closer to reality than my shopping/buying habits- in my experience.

I don't give a rat's ass what someone else considers. I also didn't imply that I know better than someone else what they should consider. What I did imply is that an enthusiast *like myself* considering a GTI, an A3, and a Fusion would be as odd as the Cruze, Rav4, Suburban example for more pedestrian buyers. My initial statement was fairly straightforward, or so I thought. It's now been taken out of context multiple times. I'd like to think my common car buyer example trio of vehicles was an obvious hyperbole, but the reactions here say it wasn't so obvious.

It was hyperbole.


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## Waterfan (Aug 9, 2012)

Dan Halen said:


> A MkIV Jetta was a difficult enough back seat for a little bump 'n' grind; why high school girls continue to want cars with small back seats is beyond me, but more power to them.


The parents are buying their daughters cars with small/no backseats precisely to make it 'difficult'. By the same logic parents don't like boyfriends with Vans either.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

Dan Halen said:


> A MkIV Jetta was a difficult enough back seat for a little bump 'n' grind; why high school girls continue to want cars with small back seats is beyond me, but more power to them.


Dan, its the badge. Its all about status in High School and to a lesser extent, in College. When i was in high school, the car to have back then was a 3 series or Lexus IS


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

caliatenza said:


> Dan, its the badge. Its all about status in High School and to a lesser extent, in College. When i was in high school, the car to have back then was a 3 series or Lexus IS


most of our country, kids are lucky to have a DL in high school, let alone an Audi or 3'er.


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

RyanA3 said:


> if that's the case, my bad.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A stretch? No way. I'm considering all 4 for sure. The only holdup is 3.5 of 4 of the listed models we can't lay hands on yet. Just depends on if you want hatch form or sedan (and/or Haldex). Someone shopping the S3 should absolutely be thinking "you know, 90% of my driving is mundane. I could save almost $20k and get a GTi with better utility, gets rave reviews, can easily be tuned to 300+hp, has most of the same tech, is a blast to drive, and has good resale".


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## Cyncris (Aug 12, 2012)

I have actually seen just about every review of every car that they have ever done. He is a huge fan of Audi and has owned one in the past. He recently reviewed an A8L TDI and gave it great reviews. He has reviewed many others and he gives them fair reviews. He does bitch about the USB ports a bit much. I guess that maybe he never remembers to charge his phone or something...dunno. I have never needed a USB port in my car. I always make sure that my phone, camera, pad, whatever is charged before I drive anywhere. I have emailed him and told him about the $60 cable that you can buy to get the USB port from their proprietary plug....but even I think that is dumb.

I know that originally Audi said that the "phone box" in the console would have a antennae in it for better reception and I thought they had talked about setting it up with induction charging too. Any idea if that ever happened?


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## Boosted 01 R (Feb 10, 2013)

I don't think he's biased about Audi... he's been positive in the past........ I think for him and like many 40K is a lot... Even though he got the paddle shifts wrong, they should really be standard to begin with on the 2.0 Quattro.... USB ports are understandable also, at the very least add 1 USB port..... Pretty happy how he dismissed the 1.8T right away lol... What was that review that said the 1.8T was more fun/better ? < LOL 

I believe like many out there we're waiting to see what changes they make by next year......


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

Cyncris said:


> I know that originally Audi said that the "phone box" in the console would have a antennae in it for better reception and I thought they had talked about setting it up with induction charging too. Any idea if that ever happened?


That was to be a running change; whether we'll ever see it is up for debate, I suppose. I know we currently don't get it. Maybe it'll be one of those surprise model year changeover additions at some point.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

RyanA3 said:


> most of our country, kids are lucky to have a DL in high school, let alone an Audi or 3'er.


lol i went to a private high school. Big thing was luxury makes and lifted pick ups. When i was in senior year, all the nice cars started appearing in the student lot.


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

RyanA3 said:


> most of our country, kids are lucky to have a DL in high school, let alone an Audi or 3'er.


thing is, there really wasn't very many nice cars at this price point (29-30k) back when i was in high school (graduated in 2003).


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## grepped (Feb 15, 2014)

Chimera said:


> A stretch? No way. I'm considering all 4 for sure. The only holdup is 3.5 of 4 of the listed models we can't lay hands on yet. Just depends on if you want hatch form or sedan (and/or Haldex). Someone shopping the S3 should absolutely be thinking "you know, 90% of my driving is mundane. I could save almost $20k and get a GTi with better utility, gets rave reviews, can easily be tuned to 300+hp, has most of the same tech, is a blast to drive, and has good resale".


I was also in this camp (minus the S3), but had to scratch off both golfs due to not wanting to extend my lease for an unknown length of time. Supposed mk7 supply issues and lack of information really didn't help. 

I'm otherwise with Dan; you should know what you want, and it's easy to cross off a lot from even being considered. It's surprising how much is eliminated by just a few requirements. Admittedly stringent, but they are what they are. I for one have no beef with no USB, but refuse to get a car without an SD slot. In that same vein, paying an exorbitant amount for extras I don't give a damn about to get that SD slot.

Also, those are some damned rich neighborhoods to be throwing 30k at a kids likely first car. Everyone I know got a handmedown/loaner; PT cruisers, intrepids, malibus...


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## caliatenza (Dec 10, 2006)

grepped said:


> Also, those are some damned rich neighborhoods to be throwing 30k at a kids likely first car. Everyone I know got a handmedown/loaner; PT cruisers, intrepids, malibus...


Kids who go to private high schools or come from well off families usually get nice first cars. My town has a lot of old money folks...and i went to a private high school.


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## Trumpet Rider (Apr 19, 2014)

VWNCC said:


> Heyhey, the Jetta IV is still the best looking Jetta.


hear hear!!:thumbup:


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Dan Halen said:


> Hey, if you want to use my statement as an opportunity to project meaning or intent that isn't there, go ahead. I've helped appliance buyers buy cars before. They're all over the map. When it comes to what they want and/or need, they're clueless until a) someone tells them or b) they kick so many tires they're just "over it." While the example of a Cruse, a Rav4, and a Suburban is at the extreme end, it's closer to reality than my shopping/buying habits- in my experience.
> 
> I don't give a rat's ass what someone else considers. I also didn't imply that I know better than someone else what they should consider. What I did imply is that an enthusiast *like myself* considering a GTI, an A3, and a Fusion would be as odd as the Cruze, Rav4, Suburban example for more pedestrian buyers. My initial statement was fairly straightforward, or so I thought. It's now been taken out of context multiple times. I'd like to think my common car buyer example trio of vehicles was an obvious hyperbole, but the reactions here say it wasn't so obvious.
> 
> It was hyperbole.


What cars did you consider for your purchase? It seems like you have decided on the S3 without ever having driven one, know when it will get here, or what you will actually have to pay for it. Your purchase must be based only on what others and reviews have told you.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

The new golf r is looking amazing
us release info:
http://media.vw.com/release/750/

this is the latest review, must read:
http://www.evo.co.uk/carreviews/evocarreviews/291619/vw_golf_r_mk7_review_price_and_specs.html


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## davewg (Jul 30, 2001)

RyanA3 said:


> The new golf r is looking amazing.
> 
> http://media.vw.com/release/750/



Still no LED tails, no Discover Pro 8" info screen. Not deal breakers, but just seem like weird omissions. Plus, honestly, I can't take the level of hew and cry in the VW Mk VII forums over how these cars are optioned/equipped/price pointed, etc, etc...

Forum support, to me, is critical in this day and age and the level of "noise/arm-chair quarterbacking" in those forums is getting to me. 

I know we have some of that here (just see this thread), but for some reason its considerably less bothersome. Perhaps, for the most part, most of the comments here are at least well reasoned even if more combative at times than necessary.

I've started to cool towards VW (at least for now).


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## Dan Halen (May 16, 2002)

dmorrow said:


> What cars did you consider for your purchase? It seems like you have decided on the S3 without ever having driven one, know when it will get here, or what you will actually have to pay for it. Your purchase must be based only on what others and reviews have told you.


This was beat to death in another thread of mine; you've seen it. I'm not further derailing this thread with the same explanations.


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## RyanA3 (May 11, 2005)

davewg said:


> I've started to cool towards VW (at least for now).


check out the 2nd link that I inserted in that post just above.


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## jsausley (Dec 2, 2011)

It's plain and simple. The A3 that you would actually want to drive around and be seen in is going to cost you over 40 thousand dollars. There's no way around that truth.

Optioning any A3 at a price lower than that and you're sacrificing a LOT of things that should be included on a "premium brand German sedan."

So the ultimate question is whether a $40,000 A3 compares to other options for $40,000.

For me, it wasn't worth the extra $5,000 just to have the newest car with four rings on the front, so that's why I bought the CC. (Actually it was more like an extra $9,500 since I was able to get a significant discount on the CC, but that's not really relevant.)


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

jsausley said:


> It's plain and simple. The A3 that you would actually want to drive around and be seen in is going to cost you over 40 thousand dollars. There's no way around that truth.
> 
> Optioning any A3 at a price lower than that and you're sacrificing a LOT of things that should be included on a "premium brand German sedan."
> 
> ...


Once again, Audi has made the most fearsome competitor to one of their own models sit on the same showroom floor. 
A decent P+ A4 can be had for $40k, as can a decent Q5, and Audi would pay you cash money to PLEASE take an allroad off the lot. 

Maybe you can't twit on your face book with a geotag while yelp'ing, but really, anyone can use the google from their cordless phone in this hip, modern day and age, anyway.


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## dmorrow (Jun 9, 2000)

Dan Halen said:


> This was beat to death in another thread of mine; you've seen it. I'm not further derailing this thread with the same explanations.


I really don't remember if I saw it or not but really don't care that much either so it's ok with me.

Further derailing whatever this thread is about? I thought it was about teenage girls, USB ports and what comes on the Golf R.


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