# Boring Throttle Body How-To (56K, enter at your own risk?)



## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

*Boring Throttle Body How-To (56K, enter at your own risk…)*

This mod is definitely worth doing!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
First, tools that will be needed:
One dremel tool and accessories








One assortment of sandpaper. This carries grits 220, 400, 800, and 1000.








Of course, the throttle body for a 2.0 (I don’t know if VR’s TB’s are different, but I am sure the same principal can be applied to any TB).








Gotta have the homestyle vacuum cleaner for cleaning up during and afterwards








And the kitchen sink for good measure








Oh, and by the way, always think safety first http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
















Now, inspect the throttle body, see those large humps?







[URL]http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k207/derickg123/TB%20How-to/Picture08.jpg[/img[/URL]]
Using the dremel tool, install the 60 grit wheel 
[IMG]http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k207/derickg123/TB%20How-to/Picture09.jpg
and start grinding away. Here, as I was grinding away, aluminum shavings went everywhere, so in an attempt to keep the airborne aluminum levels down, I vacuumed as I dremeled. Left hand side of me grinding, that’s the vacuum hose.








Here, I finished the front side








Run your finger along where you dremeled, and if you are happy with how even it feels, continue on, or dremel again.








Now for the backside; Look at the size of the hump in the back
















Dremel the same way you did the front side, should look something like this:








This area took the longest because of the height and amount of material you need to remove. I HIGHLY suggest going at it for 3-5 minutes, then pause for 2. This way, you don’t overheat the aluminum (and your dremel). This is the second one I did, and I cracked the first one slightly. It was a hairline fracture, luckily, the first one was my old TB anyway, so I wasn’t worried too much about it.
I went through 2 60 grit wheels. The last hump did the most damage (I know its hard to see, but most the sanding material is gone)








When I did this the first time, I went straight from 60 grit to 220 grit paper. This made it very difficult, so I suggest going to the 100 grit wheel first to smooth out the rough spots, then go to 220 grit paper afterwards.








Since I knew I was going to polish later on, I used the 100 grit wheel on the entire interior of the TB








This next pic shows how much space I opened up doing this, looks like it might make a difference…








Sometimes its good to have an audience, I suggest a party Snoopy with a 50oz and beer goggles http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

















The rest is pretty straightforward. Start off with the 220 grit paper, and sand until all the scratches are even. This took the longest to do, and I wound up with a blister or two and a nice sore hand afterwards. Then, go to 400, once all is smooth with 400, I went with 400 again, but used water to have a smoother base once I went to 800. Use 800 and 1000 with water, the throttle body turns out smooth as glass. I didn’t take any pics during the sanding process, since my hands were pretty busy. I will try and get the final product up here as I haven’t taken the picture yet. 
As for whether this did anything, everything good has come from this. I went on a road trip to Bellingham, and went the whole tank on the freeway. When I used to drive from Anacortes to Bothell, I got about 29mpg (all freeway). With this mod, I was able to achieve 33mpg (that’s also with a heavy foot). Plus, part throttle power is increased, and amazing increase in throttle response!! If there is one mod I could recommend for someone, this would be it. It can be done really cheap. It cost me about $75 since I bought a new (ok, used from fellow ‘tex member) TB and dremel tool. If you got a friend with one, can be done for way way cheaper (dremel was on sale for $40 at sears). I thought about gasket-matching the bore, but after purchasing a new gasket, I found out that either I have a damn good eye, or the TB is already matched up pretty well to the gasket, so I didn’t bother. Pictures were taken with a Samsung SGH-E315 Camera phone, so I know the pic quality isn’t the best, but it’s the only digi cam I got.
Questions, comments, criticism, all is welcome.

edit: rehosted photo's


_Modified by gltuner at 10:29 AM 1-13-2007_


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## HK1980 (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

good diy


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## Pf3il (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (HK1980)*

a heads up for VR guys: this CAN be done on a VR throttle body, but it's a shot in the dark. some guys have had great success, others have ruined throttle bodies. apparently if you do anything more than smooth the ramps, you'll experience severe bucking. proceed with caution.


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## Golfmk3_18 (Sep 22, 2004)

sweet, looks like i know what im doing this week end , thanx for the how to!!


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## volkswagon1998 (Sep 30, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Pf3il)*

nice i got an extra 2.0 tb laying around, im gonna try it out to see if i can fee any gains http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif nice diy


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

One thing I didn't get before I did this was a dust mask of sorts. There was a LOT of aluminum dust when I did this, and it was a concern of mine, which is why I had the vacuum. It helped quite a bit, but probably not as much as doing it outside and having a dust mask would have done.


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## chrgdVR (Aug 2, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Pf3il)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pf3il* »_a heads up for VR guys: this CAN be done on a VR throttle body, but it's a shot in the dark. some guys have had great success, others have ruined throttle bodies. apparently if you do anything more than smooth the ramps, you'll experience severe bucking. proceed with caution.

yep
i have a ported 2.9 t/b and i have to wait to get a custom tune to use it cause the car bucks and deosn't run right with it
dont mind how its all apart looking, i had it apart to clean it up a bit......


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## 8v o'Fury (Sep 9, 2004)

How do I know how much to remove without compromising the outer structure?? Any downside to this mod such as bogging, low RPM sputtering, etc?? The MAF will automatically adjust for the extra airflow correct??


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

Yes, the computer will automatically add more fuel as needed, its within the range of the stock engine management. Basically, take down the ramps until you think its completely round, you won't compromise the structure of the throttle body. Thats about the only way to do it and still maintain the stock butterfly valve and stock gasket. It seems the manufacturer did a good job matching up the gasket to the throttle body (go figure







). I have yet to see a downside; car starts perfectly, low end doesn't appear compromised (if anything, enhanced), and partial throttle response/power appears to be increased. This isn't a mod to expect a lot of gains, but I do think it will help the overall flow and help out with all the other parts.


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## 8v o'Fury (Sep 9, 2004)

Well, I've got a pretty serious port job on the head, a 270 cam and a 4-1 header with straight piping si it sounds like I will benefit from the increased response. Thanks for the info...


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

not a problem http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## .late_apex. (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Pf3il)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pf3il* »_a heads up for VR guys: this CAN be done on a VR throttle body, but it's a shot in the dark. some guys have had great success, others have ruined throttle bodies. apparently if you do anything more than smooth the ramps, you'll experience severe bucking. proceed with caution.

Only on OBDI. OBDII doesn't like any TB mods it will throw a CEL and buck even if you just deramp the OBDII TB.


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## Pf3il (Dec 28, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (.late_apex.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.late_apex.* »_
Only on OBDI. OBDII doesn't like any TB mods it will throw a CEL and buck even if you just deramp the OBDII TB.

tell that to AGGRESSIV. he's successfully deramped an OBD2 TB. i think that's who did it. he also machined down the shaft that the plate bolts to, and counter-sunk the screw holes.


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## .late_apex. (Jan 28, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Pf3il)*

Really? Wow, ok I stand corrected. Everytime I've seen someone deramp an OBDII TB without correcting it with software there has been a CEL. Maybe there is a happy medium that I am unaware of. I know you can do it if you know someone who will write you custom software, I was just under the impression that it couldn't be done without it.


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

Last Friday, I changed my oil for a road trip, and just to make sure everything was in good running order, I took off my intake plumbing to clean out my TB. I was pleasantly surprised!! I was expecting to have to clean out a decent amount of oil buildup, but there was none to be cleaned off. I don't know if this is a good thing or not, since the oil from the breather gets ingested by the motor anyway, but usually sticks to everything. Just thought I would give everyone a heads up about it.


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## MattyDVR6 (Dec 8, 2002)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gltuner* »_Last Friday, I changed my oil for a road trip, and just to make sure everything was in good running order, I took off my intake plumbing to clean out my TB. I was pleasantly surprised!! I was expecting to have to clean out a decent amount of oil buildup, but there was none to be cleaned off. I don't know if this is a good thing or not, since the oil from the breather gets ingested by the motor anyway, but usually sticks to everything. Just thought I would give everyone a heads up about it.

problably cause the TB is smooth now instead of the porous cast-Bull S. Great DIY dude this should be added to the MK3 DIY thread....well all the other DIY threads because the x-flow swap is so common it will benefit the whole vortex. you rock dude
::







roud black woman's voice:: "go on wit yo bad selfff"


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## exodub (Jan 5, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (MattyDVR6)*

whats with the people who have experienced 'bucking' tho?
did they maybe grind off too much?....how can i avoid whatever it is that causes this?
i've got a odbII 2.0l 8v and I am thinking about doing this mod...but i dont want to end up having to buy another tb


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

I have yet to experience any sort of bucking, perhaps when those guys did it, they bore out too much to the point where they needed to replace the butterfly valve, and then the airflow was outside of the range of the engine management (too much airflow per TPS voltage output). I honostly don't think there would be much more benefit to actually go to the extent of boring out say, 1-3mm over, except maybe 15-20 more cfm than deramping. Just de-ramp the TB, wetsand it, and have fun with it.
One more thing, when I did it (I too am OBD-II 2.0 8v), I just made it round as where the butterfly valve "made contact" with the TB. In reality though, the butterfly valve never touches, but you will see what I am talking about when you take it off.


_Modified by gltuner at 11:53 AM 7-29-2005_


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## stevevr6 (Dec 13, 2002)

*Re: (gltuner)*

I was under the impression that you couldn't deramp the vr6 OBD2 t/b, because i learned the hard way







I bored one out and the car bucked at part throttle, but at wot it pulled very nice.
But if it's been done sucessfully a big http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif and i need a DIY of that


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

Now did you bore it out, or deramp it (I'm one to be getting picky about terminology, aint I







), because there is a difference. 
De-ramp = removing the humps, making the opening more circular
boring = actually removing metal to make the opening larger
If you bored it out, there was probably too much airflow at part throttle in relation to what the TPS was telling the ECU. Also, if it is actually bored out, did you replace the butterfly valve with one that was bigger?


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## Nephurus (Nov 6, 2002)

*Re: (stevevr6)*

OK guys, this is from experience and testing. I've done both OBD1 and 2, where I "deramped" and polished. It has been hit or miss lately. While I've done the same exact method for all of them regardless of 2.0 or 2.8, and OBD 1 or 2, I've been encountered with extreme success and extreme failure. On one car, nothing but more power and awesome throttle responce, on others, bucking and hesitation. I've been working with the hesitation/ bucking ones to figure out if any after market chip will correct the problem, or can some other system be fooled so no CEL or bucking persists. Damn VW's... Nothing is ever simple...


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## NoGrip61 (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: (gltuner)*

Very good write up!
Roughly how long did this take?


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## Modblujetta (Sep 8, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

Welp, Here I go to the salvage yard to find me a TB. Thanks for the DIY.


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## flashredvdub (Jul 27, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Modblujetta)*

i have a 2.0 throttle body off a 97 jetta for sale if anybody needs one http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: (SSjetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SSjetta* »_Very good write up!
Roughly how long did this take? 

Expect to spend all day doing it. The grinding down of the TB took about 1-2 hours, depending on how meticulous you are. The sanding took the longest, especially with the 220 grit paper. Expect to sand for a good 3-4 hours. It is definetly something that can be done and tested practically immediatly. I say that because on OBD-II equipped cars, the ECM needs to adapt to the "new" TB. Nothing bad though, you just see your revs hover a bit above 1k (probably like 1200 rpm) when you come to a stop. This goes away after about 10-15 minutes of driving.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (gltuner)*

this only works for obd1? or did you do this to a obd2 tb?
I know coming from the vr6 side your sort of porting only works for obd1 if u port a obd2 u need to carfully blend which is hard with out a mill.


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

This was done on an OBD II TB


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (gltuner)*

did you notice any difference in driveablity?


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

Yes, and it was all good stuff. Seems to have increased power in the mid range and at part throttle, my gas mileage went up a few mpg on the freeway, increased overall throttle response, and a slightly louder/deeper sound at WOT. The latter is probably more noticable with some sort of intake mod as I was able to notice this probably due to my ABD big bore.


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## NoGrip61 (Aug 8, 2005)

*Re: (gltuner)*

I just got done doing this, and man, there's a big increase in low end power and throttle response. I don't think there was any hp/tq gain, just the curve in the lower rpm range was increased.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RaLLeJet4 (May 16, 2003)

*Re: (gltuner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gltuner* »_boring = actually removing metal to make the opening larger
If you bored it out, there was probably too much airflow at part throttle in relation to what the TPS was telling the ECU. 

acctually it could mean the opposite. because low rpm intake air velocity could be slowed down because of the increased width.. like with race P&P.. very little low end.. bad idle.. etc


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## soo1 (Sep 28, 2000)

*Re: (RaLLeJet4)*

exactly what I was looking for!
Thanks bud! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Gonna try to source an old TB in case I screw up


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## Jetta Knyght (May 27, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

i've been wanting to do this but my confidence is not with me


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## Danno13 (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Jetta Knyght)*

How does the butterfly close all the way now?


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## tampaveedub (Sep 18, 2005)

did this to my honda throttle body years ago and felt a BIG differance


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## red-wagen (Apr 16, 2005)

*Re: (tampaveedub)*

when you start the car after doing that does it start like in high revs ? i mean like in 2000 and then starts going down to the normal 1000?


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## Moestradamus (Aug 16, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gltuner* »_Last Friday, I changed my oil for a road trip, and just to make sure everything was in good running order, I took off my intake plumbing to clean out my TB. I was pleasantly surprised!! I was expecting to have to clean out a decent amount of oil buildup, but there was none to be cleaned off. I don't know if this is a good thing or not, since the oil from the breather gets ingested by the motor anyway, but usually sticks to everything. Just thought I would give everyone a heads up about it.

You Should at one point disconnect that (Breather Tube) from your intake... It Is not good for your Engine, and it pretty much serves no purpose... You could also put a oil catch tank between the intake and the PVC valve...


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## Mr Mini (Apr 14, 2001)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Moestradamus)*

overkill?















(Kilkenny







)
Graham.


_Modified by Mr Mini at 6:58 PM 9-25-2005_


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## Danno13 (Mar 25, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Mr Mini)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Mini* »_overkill?


What in the hell is that?


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## Mr Mini (Apr 14, 2001)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Danno13)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Danno13* »_
What in the hell is that?

















the throttle/butterfly/(WTF do you call it) shaft.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 



_Modified by Mr Mini at 1:54 PM 9-25-2005_


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## ventogt97 (Mar 7, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

will my car idle rough if i do it??


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## MillCreekGinster (May 10, 2004)

*Re: (red-wagen)*


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## MKIII and Sons (May 4, 2004)

*Re: (tampaveedub)*









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RaLLeJet4 (May 16, 2003)

@Mr Mini - Did you just grind the hump down? it looks really good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## thebiggestidiot (Feb 21, 2001)

*Re: (RaLLeJet4)*

Lame question I know, what does obd1 and 2 mean? I am new to this.. Thanks.


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## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Mr Mini)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Mini* »_


















^^^i just bought this t-body from mr. Mini and its WIld!!! totally opens up the bottom end,(which i had lost some power after the cam install) Throttle response is crisp, and it pulls like crazy, right off idle.


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## vr6todd (Nov 3, 2004)

*Re: (thebiggestidiot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *thebiggestidiot* »_Lame question I know, what does obd1 and 2 mean? I am new to this.. Thanks.

The On-Board-Diagnostic system was specific to individual cars pre-96. That's OBD1. in MY96 there was a change made and all new cars were required to have the same basic diagnostic system regardless of make. This meant that one diagnostic scanner can plug into any car, instead of having something different for each make of car. Of course the software end of it is still engine-specific, but the base of it is the same.


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (ventogt97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ventogt97* »_will my car idle rough if i do it??

I encountered no problems when I did it. The only peculiarity I ran into was the computer adapting the the new throttle body; coming to a stop, engine idle would hover just above 1100 then settle down. Just drive around a bit, it went away after about 10 minutes worth of driving.


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

_Quote, originally posted by *Danno13* »_How does the butterfly close all the way now? 


Heres a really bad sketch, but you get the jist of it. The arrow shows direction of rotation:








Basically, the butterfly valve doesn't even touch the humps, but merely rotates along their path (if that makes sense). Hope that helps.


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## M511Y VR6 (Aug 6, 2003)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (.late_apex.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.late_apex.* »_
Only on OBDI. OBDII doesn't like any TB mods it will throw a CEL and buck even if you just deramp the OBDII TB.

This is the word on the street. *OBDI only*. OBDII will buck like a bronco...


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## Palilla (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (M511Y VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *M511Y VR6* »_
This is the word on the street. *OBDI only*. OBDII will buck like a bronco...

Didn't the guy in the post do it with an OBDII...he experienced no bucking problems.


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## Palilla (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Palilla)*

Still interested.

bump http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gltuner (Oct 7, 2004)

On the 2.0 TB I did, yes, they were both OBD-II, and I haven't experienced any bucking or hesitation. I believe its the VR guys who are OBD-II that are hit or miss; some buck, others don't.


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## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: (gltuner)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Palilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Palilla* »_
Didn't the guy in the post do it with an OBDII...he experienced no bucking problems.

Some one did successfully port it, it is posssible but it requires alot of attention to the ramps and how much you take out. if you take too much then your bucking, if not you have successfully ported a obd2 vr6 tb that yeilds the same gains as any other ported tb.


_Modified by fourthchirpin at 12:39 PM 11-15-2005_


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## Palilla (Jan 17, 2003)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_
Some one did successfully port it, it is posssible but it requires alot of attention to the ramps and how much you take out. if you take too much then your bucking, if not you have successfully ported a obd2 vr6 tb that yeilds the same gains as any other ported tb.

_Modified by fourthchirpin at 12:39 PM 11-15-2005_

From what I understood in the post. He didn't elarge the bore diameter of the hole (same gasket size). He just removed some of the material (what he refers to as the 'ramps' or 'humps') that protrudes out of the circle.


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## bigteal (Sep 11, 2002)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Palilla)*

i did this mod this weekend. just deramped it. response is deff. better, and it's a little louder @ WOT. the only problem i have is that my TB is going out anyway, could not get it to adapt. tried a few times with the 5052, no go. also it "hiccuped" once under part throttle. didn't really feel any difference on the highway, but rev matching got easier. i'll have to try it on a good TB and see what happens.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Palilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Palilla* »_
From what I understood in the post. He didn't elarge the bore diameter of the hole (same gasket size). He just removed some of the material (what he refers to as the 'ramps' or 'humps') that protrudes out of the circle.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1

the person that replicates this is golden. ive been meaning to experiement but funds are really low to get any extra tb's.


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## daviddepin (Jun 18, 2004)

such a great mod to do.


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## punisher89 (Oct 11, 2002)

*Re: (daviddepin)*

this goes on my christmas break to-do list.


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## m-dub2.0 (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: (punisher89)*

So can you futher explain why doing this to a VR is bad>?


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: (m-dub2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *m-dub2.0* »_So can you futher explain why doing this to a VR is bad>?

you can do this on a obd1 vr with no problems. but if you do it on a obd2 vr tb it will buck alot. the bucking is because the TPS is alot more sensitive on the obd2 vr6's then the obd1 vr6's.


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: (tampaveedub)*

I just got my new (used) TB today and will be doing this tomorrow. Thanks alot for the nice write-up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vasillalov (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: (oopseyesharted)*

Has anyone done this to an AEG+ throttle body? I am thinking of doing this on my MK4 (deramping only). I wonder if these humps even exist on the MK4...


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: (vasillalov)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vasillalov* »_Has anyone done this to an AEG+ throttle body? I am thinking of doing this on my MK4 (deramping only). I wonder if these humps even exist on the MK4...

I was about to type the same thing


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## fosplu (Jul 6, 2004)

I just did this tonight, and right when i turn on the car, the engine revs up to redline with out me pressing the gas immediatly. Any ideas whats wrong? I couldnt get the bracket off that connects to the brass piece on the top of the throttle body, so when i slid it back on it wont go on all the way, but it looks sealed. My friend told me its probably a vacuum leak but this seems a little extreme for a vacuum leak. Any ideas whats wrong? its a 2.0 obdII


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## fosplu (Jul 6, 2004)

any body?
I tightened all the hoses today and made sure it wasnt leaking anywhere. It will run really rough without the MAF, but it revvs to the redline without me pressing the gas as soon as i press the gas.


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## VW_tayder (Oct 4, 2005)

*Re: (fosplu)*

check your throttle postition sensor.


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## all-starr-me (Jul 14, 2003)

*Re: (fosplu)*

I would check how tight your throttle cable is afterwards, sounds like you adjusted it too tight and it is stuck open, or it is caught somewhere between the pedal and the firewall.


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: (all-starr-me)*

I did mine about 2 weeks ago. runs smoother and lowend feels better as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## daviddepin (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (oopseyesharted)*


_Quote, originally posted by *oopseyesharted* »_I did mine about 2 weeks ago. runs smoother and lowend feels better as well http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

not to mention the car sounds sexier after doing this.

PAGE 3ish!


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (fosplu)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fosplu* »_I just did this tonight, and right when i turn on the car, the engine revs up to redline with out me pressing the gas immediatly. Any ideas whats wrong? I couldnt get the bracket off that connects to the brass piece on the top of the throttle body, so when i slid it back on it wont go on all the way, but it looks sealed. My friend told me its probably a vacuum leak but this seems a little extreme for a vacuum leak. Any ideas whats wrong? its a 2.0 obdII


If its your TPS, it would have thrown a code. If you got a CEL, get it scanned, regardless if the CEL existed beforehand. When you re-installed the throttle cable, was it easy, hard, etc? Also, check to see if your butterfly valve is sticking; rotate where the throttle cable connects to and feel for grinding. If this is the case, try some carb cleaner (without the engine running). It sounds like you could have gotten a bit of metal in between the body and the butterfly valve and its sticking, at least thats what it sounds like to me.


----------



## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: (daviddepin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *daviddepin* »_
not to mention the car sounds sexier after doing this.

PAGE 3ish!

i forgot to mention the sound....damn it sounds good http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Stoy74 (Nov 14, 2005)

Just to be sure I have a stock 96 jetta gls. So I should Not have any problems right? I've been reading this cor some time know and now I am just getting confuused on what it works on and what it does not!!! Thanks for ur help


----------



## PrupleGTI (Feb 1, 2002)

*Re: (Stoy74)*

O.K. back onto this Bucking issue with the VR 
Forget about deramping BTW 2.0L guys should use a stock VR unit prolly get better results

as for the VR I don't understand why the car would Buck unless the Butterfly doesn't seal properly afterwards??
I've been thinking about using an 85mm Mustang TB on my VR


----------



## 28 (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (PrupleGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PrupleGTI* »_O.K. back onto this Bucking issue with the VR 
Forget about deramping BTW 2.0L guys should use a stock VR unit prolly get better results

as for the VR I don't understand why the car would Buck unless the Butterfly doesn't seal properly afterwards??
I've been thinking about using an 85mm Mustang TB on my VR

I bored out my obd1 VR6 TB a while back with no problems, i think its obd2 vr that had all the issues


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

I believe the general agreement is Vr6 OBD-I cars are ok, but those with a VR and are OBD-II is hit or miss.
2.0 guys should still do this mod though, its essentially a free mod, especially if you can find a buddy with a dremel tool or already have one. Minus whatever it is for sandpaper, its still a worthwhile mod.


----------



## Stoy74 (Nov 14, 2005)

Thanks guys!!!


----------



## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

I don't know what I did, but I have done 2 throttle bodies already, and both of them sucked. The porting and polishing came out great, but the first one ended up revving up, and the second one won't adapt, so at startup it revs up to 2 grand and finally settles at about 1 grand.
I got another throttle body tonight, hopefully this one works out ok. I'm going to install this tb without doing anything to it first and see how well it works. Hopefully I can get it adpated.


----------



## Stoy74 (Nov 14, 2005)

Expect to spend all day doing it. The grinding down of the TB took about 1-2 hours, depending on how meticulous you are. The sanding took the longest, especially with the 220 grit paper. Expect to sand for a good 3-4 hours. It is definetly something that can be done and tested practically immediatly. I say that because on OBD-II equipped cars, the ECM needs to adapt to the "new" TB. Nothing bad though, you just see your revs hover a bit above 1k (probably like 1200 rpm) when you come to a stop. This goes away after about 10-15 minutes of driving.
This is a quote frome an earlier post!


----------



## Stoy74 (Nov 14, 2005)

bump


----------



## abufstough (Apr 20, 2005)

hey guys. i have an '02 jetta and just took out my throttle body to try this (i bought a dremel earlier today). however, i seem to have run into a problem. either the butterfly valve doesn't open because my car's a drive by wire (which was implied by the diy i read on removing the tb, and confirmed by my own experience) , or i lack the mechanical imagination/savy to figure out how to move it. i did lots of searching, but didn't find anything helpful. 
in short, can you deramp a dbw throttle body? if so, how?
thanks.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

If you had to disconnect a connector and not a cable, then yes, you have a DBW car. Not sure about DBW as I do not own one, but I really don't see any problems. 
WORD OF WARNING: This is coming from someone who does not have a DBY 2.0, so proceed with caution.


----------



## abufstough (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*

well, i read somewhere that model years 2000+ (or so) were all drive by wires, so i'm fairly sure that my car is dbw. in fact, that's where my problem arises. since it's not cable, i don't know how to move the valve to dremel in the center of the tb. and that's precisely where i hoped to glean wonderfully helpful information from the vortex.
thanks for the help though.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

Just so you know, your not actually dremeling the center where the butterfly valve comes in contact with, but the ramps outside of the butterfly valve.
I'll say it again, to those who think thats the intent.
DO NOT DREMEL THE BUTTERFLY "CONTACT" SURFACE.


----------



## abufstough (Apr 20, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*

i don't mean to be dense, but i'm not sure i understand your last post. i thought i was supposed to dremel the raised part of the tb, which is only towards the center, where the butterfly valve resides, thus enlarging the diameter in the center to the diameter on either side of the valve. are you saying i should only smooth out the ramp/edge so that it's a gradual reduction in size as you approach the valve and then go away from it on the other side?


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

Perhaps I may have mis-interpreted your last post, but it seemed to me you were going to dremel the center of the TB according to the yellow circles in the picture:








You really don't need to open the butterfly valve as you dremel down the ramps, but it gives you a bit of peace of mind when you do the backside. Your not exactly enlarging the bore of the TB, but rather removing two large obstructions on the interior of the "tube," so to speak.


----------



## abufstough (Apr 20, 2005)

sorry, but i'm still confused. i don't know how to use that picture, or i would. but when i look at my tb, the 'humps' or 'half circles' extend all the way to the other side of the valve, forming a ridge, rather than two individual 'humps'. am i seeing this correctly?
secondly, if i what i see is what really is, then i really just dremel the ridge so that it gradually reduces in size so the air flow is smoother, rather than simply more voluminous (is that a word??)?


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

I am kinda shooting in the dark here as I haven't seen the interior of the TB's on the mkIV's. On the mkIII's, the 'humps' were basically that, humps in the metal and didn't extend into the center of the TB. In this picture:








the shiny part in the back can just be brought down and "rounded" like the "non-humped" part of the TB.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

After a bit of email conversation with abufstough, it has come to my attention that the de-ramping procedure does not apply to the mkIV crowd because there are no ramps on the mkIV. The mkIV TB has a step in the middle of the TB that doesn't appear to cause that much of a bottle-neck. Pictures are curteous of abufstough:
















This last picture is a section view sketch derived from the pictures. The yellow circles demonstrate this "step" and are a good reference if you wish to smooth this part out. However, like I stated before, this "step" doesn't appear restrictive at all, so any benefit will more than likely be un-noticable.








edit: updated some pics


_Modified by abawp at 5:17 PM 3-6-2007_


----------



## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*

has anyone tried a partial deramping? leaving a very small part of the ramp on both sides to ensure proper idiling? im very nervous about grinding my throttle body, as this car is my only one and I dont feel like buying another throttle body. anyone done it? have pictures? results?


_Modified by yeayeayea at 10:50 PM 1-28-2006_


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

I have had no problems with a full de-ramping, as well as a majority of the rest of the 2.0 guys that have done this (OBD-I and OBD-II), so a partial should have no problems. I don't recall getting any feedback from any 2.0T guys, so I think you would be the first one. I know you don't feel like purchasing another TB, but I have a spare TB I can work something out with you to try and see if you run into problems (its OBD-II btw, just as your car is). Its completely de-ramped, and I need to complete the polishing, but I figure if a 2.0t shows promising results with a full de-ramp, then a partial will be ok as well.
A heads up for all the 2.0 guys, I am getting a VR TB here soon, so I will let you all know how that goes with just the swap and maybe a de-ramping and polishing.


----------



## yeayeayea (May 29, 2005)

well it *appears* to be safe, so I think ill just attempt it on my throttle body. itll save you from having to ship one, and If i mess mine up then Ill get back to you about the one you have, if it works well.


----------



## misfit77 (Jan 13, 2006)

I was reading in one those Chilton replair manuals that the TB is tuned to the ECU on MK4 and would require to VAG-COM if a new TB is installed. Is this true?


----------



## 2ohgti (Nov 8, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

nicely done http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## mateochin (Jun 23, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To*

Quick question, i'm in the middle of doing this to my TB (MK3 ABA 2.0). i've done the dr-ramping, and gone over the the deramped part, as well as the rest of the inside of the TB with 100-grit. Then i noticed the butterfly, when i push on it, moves 1-2mm back.. like opposite the way that it opens. I didn't notice this before i started working on it. So i'm worried i might've FUBR'd it. Does anyone know if it's supposed to move as i described it?


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (mateochin)*

Hmm, never noticed before. I will check up on that for you and bring back the verdict tommorrow for you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## HK1980 (Jan 7, 2003)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (mateochin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mateochin* »_Quick question, i'm in the middle of doing this to my TB (MK3 ABA 2.0). i've done the dr-ramping, and gone over the the deramped part, as well as the rest of the inside of the TB with 100-grit. Then i noticed the butterfly, when i push on it, moves 1-2mm back.. like opposite the way that it opens. I didn't notice this before i started working on it. So i'm worried i might've FUBR'd it. Does anyone know if it's supposed to move as i described it?

you guys are crazy serious with these throttle body business


----------



## FatalErrorSTi (Oct 24, 2005)

this is an uber-noob question but uhh, where exactly is the throttle body located and how do i remove it? i wanna hit up the junk yard so i can try out this mod..


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

Newb answer to the newb question, search..
Ok, seriously though, follow these steps:
Pop open hood.
Stare at airbox
Follow tube coming from the airbox up to the big aluminum chunk that says "2.0" on it. Where the intake tube connects to, that is the TB. 
There are 4 allen wrench bolts, 5mm IIRC.
Disconnect negative battery terminal
Disconnect the TPS plug (the only connector on the TB)
disconnect the vacuum line on the brass nipple on the top of the TB
pop off the throttle cable (pretty simple once you see it)
unscrew intake tube
use the 5mm allen wrench and remove the 4 bolts
TB should fall into your hand. If it doesn't, its probably stuck on (due to heat, etc), so a slight prying or wiggling will do the job.


----------



## koston. (Aug 20, 2003)

*Re: (tampaveedub)*

Gotta try this next weekend. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ranceiseuro (Dec 11, 2005)

i would have just taken the throttle body put it in a 3 jaw indicated and went to work on each side with a shiny new boring bar... 
sometimes being a machinest kicks ass.
but nice DIY! this is great if you dont have access to machine equiptment this also works on cylinder heads!! BUMP! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## quicksilver2.0 (May 13, 2002)

*Re: (tampaveedub)*

How much Aluminum do you shave off without damaging the TB? How do you know when to stop?
did gltuner shave the humps off too?


_Modified by quicksilver2.0 at 12:04 AM 4-7-2006_


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## Salty VW (Sep 2, 2004)

Ya know I did this way back in the day with my old Jetta.. and although I did notice some gains years later I realized that although I increased the flow I actualy decreased the airspeed and intake pressure.
Which left me wondering.. which way is really better..
Basicly the venturi shape of the throttle body causes the air to acellerate past the open butterfly rather than mearly flowing past.


----------



## 95vrob6 (Mar 27, 2006)

*Re: (Wheel Man 4life)*

I did this, replaced the throttle plate and worked great


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (quicksilver2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quicksilver2.0* »_How much Aluminum do you shave off without damaging the TB? How do you know when to stop?
did gltuner shave the humps off too?


I completely removed the humps, so looking at the TB, it looks more like a round tube. I stopped after I gauged the cross-section to be as round as possible where the humps were.


----------



## jamescleo (May 25, 2006)

*Re: (abawp)*

I just did this to my 99.5 Golf. I only grinded the ramp down around 3mm and smoothed everything out nice, but the throttle response seems better. it's worth the couple of dremmel bits and hour of time... oh, and when i disassembled the thorrlte body.. i was a little too anxious and forgot there's coolant lines going to it haha.. that was stinky funny mistake.


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## jamescleo (May 25, 2006)

i can't spell throttle.


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## dubaffair (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: (quicksilver2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quicksilver2.0* »_ How do you know when to stop?


When it gets too hot to hold


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## quicksilver2.0 (May 13, 2002)

*Re: (dubaffair)*

Did this, car idles great at 850, very responsive but not after 4000rpms, there is major hestation and loss of power.Maybe to much air coming through?, I have misfires from 1-4?


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## dubaffair (Jan 9, 2003)

*Re: (quicksilver2.0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *quicksilver2.0* »_Did this, car idles great at 850, very responsive but not after 4000rpms, there is major hestation and loss of power.Maybe to much air coming through?, I have misfires from 1-4? 

My car idles at about 950. I have GREAT part-throttle torque and the HP takes over at about 4500 rpms and pulls until I whenever I want to shift. I am even running +1* timing. My top end was even better when I was running -1* and -4* before that. Portiing the TB has only helped me. I get no codes and definetly no CEL.


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## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (dubaffair)*

Did mine a while back. Weber big bore for a rabbit. I also ported the intake, and ported the opening for tb, and ported the adapter. it made a huge difference with a full hogged out intake manifold. Car sounds so beautiful at wot under load. And it humms at higher freeway speeds. Sounds tuned, and ready to go. I recommend it with good cam and exhaust work. but I am running CIS basic with huge cam, so a little different animal. Mr mini has a fine lookin piece...
mine


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

*Re: (fast84gti)*

I just did the Throttle Body Bore... Followed the DIY near exact... I'm not sure if I noticed a 'power' increase... but I can definetely say that I felt it idling MUCH smoother. Not to mention I still have a retarded automatic... which during Wide Open Throttle shifts very hard... Oddly enough I noticed that during WOT now it shifts very smooth and quick. I'm not sure why this would happen... but I consider it a good side effect.








Other things...??hmmm I got no CEL! good news I guess. and I got no stuttering... like I said it had the opposite effect. very smooth idle.


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## dttompkins (Oct 12, 2006)

*Re: (tampaveedub)*

this will be part of the 88 mod I am doing, and since I like technical crap, the humps are for turbulance and added heat stability in the metal for design. The greatest reminder is nothing will stick to 800 to 1000 polish as 400 is OPTICAL threshold where scratches dissappear. Air doesnt stick either as it is a VAPOR not a gas. What are we not supposed to polish, oh yeah, carburetor intake manifolds are a no no. They need turbulance for breaking up the fuel into VAPOR and fuel droplets will stick to smooth surfaces . I better go re read this.


----------



## rosie o'bulldyke (Oct 23, 2006)

*Re: (dttompkins)*

great diy


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## vdubdrew87 (Oct 4, 2006)

wil this work out for a mk4? also if i vrind down the humps correctly will it not let air just flow between the TB walla nd the butterfly flap? im guessing it wont be a problem since the humps arent right under the butterfly flap or whatever you wanna call it??? thanks.
-Andrew


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## ABF Jeff (Nov 16, 2005)

*Re: (vdubdrew87)*

You don't grind the actual area where the throttle plate meets the housing, just the ramps before and after the plate... I don't know how it would work on a MKIV, I imagine it would work the same for the cable throttle setups, but who knows how the drive-by-wire would like it.


----------



## vdubdrew87 (Oct 4, 2006)

anyone tired this on an mk4 2.0?????


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

The mkIV TB's don't have humps, but rather a ridge (think the pics are on the previous page). For those too lazy to look on the previous page, heres whats going on:
mkIII TB:








mkIV TB:


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (vdubdrew87)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubdrew87* »_*wil this work out for a mk4?* also if i vrind down the humps correctly will it not let air just flow between the TB walla nd the butterfly flap? im guessing it wont be a problem since the humps arent right under the butterfly flap or whatever you wanna call it??? thanks.
-Andrew

Bottom line, it will work but it will be work gone unnoticed. Some mkIV folks claim to have done this, but I don't see a point since it already "flows" better than a mkIII unit (stock v stock) and doesn't have such large protrusions in the intake path.


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## chirocco (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

Does anyone have the pictures from the first page. I can't view them and just picked up a spare TB to do this mod.
Or they can be sent to [email protected] and title it Throttle Body Mod.
Thanks


----------



## chirocco (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (mk3gti)*

Anybody?


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

I've got the pictures on my home computer. If you don't mind waiting until later tonight, I can send you them.


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## vasillalov (Nov 5, 2003)

*Re: (abawp)*

I can re-host the DIY on my server if needed. I just need the pics emailed...


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

Is everyone having trouble viewing the pictures?


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## alexdc03 (Mar 26, 2004)

*Re: (abawp)*

problems viewing them


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

Ok, I will see what I can do about re-hosting the pics on my photobucket account. If anyone else is still having problems viewing the photo's, do feel free to post http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Early99Jetta (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (abawp)*

Yeah, i can't see them
what happened to the pics?


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## Early99Jetta (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (abawp)*

why did Volkswagen cast the humps in the tb bore if they are not needed.
it would have been cheaper for them to have a straight bore


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## Early99Jetta (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (Early99Jetta)*

the only reason i say this is i cleaned up all of the rough spots on my Jaguar SU carbs and it worked well
i slimed the butterfly (knife edging) and shaft
also the piston trailing edge (hard to explain to non-SU folk)
but the thing is these things were not porposely at the factory (needed to be done by hand) unlike the Jetta tb


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## Early99Jetta (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (Early99Jetta)*

bump


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

I am not 100% sure why VW put the humps in, but if I were to hazard a guess, it would be to generate some velocity into the intake manifold. Why is beyond me since I would think you would want flow to fill the manifold faster rather than velocity and have the velocity at the head for torque. This isn't the case with mkIV's since their TB's don't have these "velocity" humps.


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## Early99Jetta (Jan 8, 2007)

*Re: (abawp)*

but if that was true wouldn't the lower end decrease in performance after "dehumping" conflicting with statements previously made in this thread.
Maybe the "engineers" at VW are out of their tree, if they wanted to increase velocity they should have used a smaller intake bore.


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## chirocco (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (Early99Jetta)*

No pics yet!








This was supposed to be my little Winter project.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (mk3gti)*

I am terribly sorry everyone for not getting the photo's up sooner. I have them strung out everywhere, I have to go digging to find them. I am missing only a few now, but they are the more critical ones. Hopefully I can find them tonight and post them for everyone.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Early99Jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Early99Jetta* »_but if that was true wouldn't the lower end decrease in performance after "dehumping" conflicting with statements previously made in this thread.
Maybe the "engineers" at VW are out of their tree, if they wanted to increase velocity they should have used a smaller intake bore.









You have to remember that the more air you start with, the more velocity you will pick up in the intake ports


----------



## chirocco (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abawp* »_I am terribly sorry everyone for not getting the photo's up sooner. I have them strung out everywhere, I have to go digging to find them. I am missing only a few now, but they are the more critical ones. Hopefully I can find them tonight and post them for everyone.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Your help is greatly appreciated! Thanks


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## Hagphish (Jul 8, 2004)

*Re: (mk3gti)*

I did this about two years ago on my '01 2.0. there is a pretty large lump on the mark 4's throttle body. I dremeled it down so the whole port was completely round. I did the same on the intake manifold. I did all of this about the same time I removed the air box, installed a 266 cam, and 2 1/4" exhaust. I noticed a big difference probably only because it was all done at the same time. I honestly couldn't tell if it helped or hindered anything performance related.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (mk3gti)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk3gti* »_
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Your help is greatly appreciated! Thanks









http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
The images have been re-hosted using my current photobucket account. If there are any other problems with not being able to see the images, feel free to let me know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (Hagphish)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Hagphish* »_I did this about two years ago on my '01 2.0. there is a pretty large lump on the mark 4's throttle body. I dremeled it down so the whole port was completely round. I did the same on the intake manifold. I did all of this about the same time I removed the air box, installed a 266 cam, and 2 1/4" exhaust. I noticed a big difference probably only because it was all done at the same time. I honestly couldn't tell if it helped or hindered anything performance related. 

Seems to me that most of the power would be from the cam, but its good to hear of positive results from this mod coupled with other engine upgrades http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chirocco (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

Awesome!!! Thanks abawp!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I will get started on this project.


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## chirocco (Aug 4, 2001)

*Re: (mk3gti)*

Would it be better to use grinding stones? My dremel kit came with these "pink coloured" grinding stones. I am assuming they will last longer than the regular sanding wheels.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (mk3gti)*

I found that the use of grinding wheels to be ineffective (unless it was just the type of grinding wheel I had). I am not 100% sure what the cost difference is between the sanding wheels and the grinding stones, but I would imagine it to be in favor of the sanding wheel since you get quite a bit for your money. Still though, it doesn't hurt to try.


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

The trick to using grinding stones is to use WD-40 as a lubricant.


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## VeeDubScott (Apr 13, 2006)

thanks for the DIY and restoring the pictures http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## rypivolks (Feb 19, 2006)

*Re: (VeeDubScott)*

can i do this on a 1.8 TB?


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (rypivolks)*

Depends on which 1.8L your talking about, but I don't think you can since the TB's are typically dual butterfly valves. The only way to be 100% certain is if you take the intake tube off and see the humps. If there are humps, then you can remove them.


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## Volkswoot (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (abawp)*

back from the dead. sorry. 
couldn't you fix the bucking problem by modding the tps so its "adjustable" ? or would that mess the idle part up ?


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (enebo8u)*

Thats ok, we are all here to learn








Making an adjustable TPS might require cutting and splicing the harness, which I am sure most wouldn't want to do. However, I don't see the harm in setting up a soft connection that you can easily reverse. The next question would be which wire is the signal wire for the TPS motor and would putting in an adjustable resistor work. Sorry I can't answer that, but if anyone wants to give it a shot and post the results, I am sure it would be helpful for others http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Volkswoot (Mar 9, 2004)

*Re: (abawp)*

i think i may have been visualizing a mk3 obd1 throttle body tps when i thought of that. and as far as that thought went was more along the lines of notching where the screws mount the tps to the tb so it could turn like a 16v distributor mounts.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (enebo8u)*

Are you thinking of the 4 or 5 torx screws on the TPS housing? Those only secure the cover plate for the TPS housing. Would have to look elsewhere, but I see what your saying.


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## 99golfofpa (Dec 31, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*

ok, i have a question about actually boring out the TB...
i have access to a mill, and a 6-jaw lathe. my TB is a 99 mkIV, drive by cable (i've searched and read and determined that this still has all of the humps and stuff in it)
now, i want to take the TB and actually bore the entire thing out so it is one constant diameter.. i know after doing this, i would have to make a new butterfly plate/valve.
This is my question: will the factory TPS still work properly with the new butterfly plate?
Thanks in advance...


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (99golfofpa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *99golfofpa* »_
now, i want to take the TB and actually bore the entire thing out so it is one constant diameter.. i know after doing this, i would have to make a new butterfly plate/valve.

You won't necessarily need a new butterfly valve, I didn't. Removal of the humps to create a uniform cross-section will not interfere with the butterfly valve "contact" to the "wall" of the TB. Makes sense?

_Quote, originally posted by *99golfofpa* »_
This is my question: will the factory TPS still work properly with the new butterfly plate?


Yes, the factory TPS will work just fine.
BTW, do you have access to a camera? I would like to get a photo of these humps you speak of in the mkIV TB of yours. This is a DBW TB:
















As you can see, no humps, but rather a step. I am curious to see if DBC is any different.



_Modified by abawp at 2:49 PM 3-29-2007_


----------



## 99golfofpa (Dec 31, 2005)

*Re: (abawp)*

no problem, i'll take some shots tomorrow... i'm not completely sure they are there, just some stuff i read on here that they may still exist.


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

Have re-rampping to my 98 2.0 automatic. Noticed power gain, but I also realize it is not shifting up until reved up more. So, the car is driving harder during acceratin. Do you know why?


----------



## renngolf (Aug 25, 2005)

*Re: (helee4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *helee4* »_Have re-rampping to my 98 2.0 automatic. Noticed power gain, but I also realize it is not shifting up until reved up more. So, the car is driving harder during acceratin. Do you know why?

Did you reset the TB afterwards and rest the shift points.


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (okocim)*

Do you mean by disconnecting the battery? Is it a necessary step, I thought the ECU will re-learn itself automatically, or I will have to disconnect in order for it to relearn its shifting point?
I also realize it is not so smooth, do you think if because I only partially de-rampped?


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (helee4)*

Partial de-ramping shouldn't matter.
How many miles have you driven with the modified TB?


----------



## renngolf (Aug 25, 2005)

*Re: (helee4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *helee4* »_Do you mean by disconnecting the battery? Is it a necessary step, I thought the ECU will re-learn itself automatically, or I will have to disconnect in order for it to relearn its shifting point?
I also realize it is not so smooth, do you think if because I only partially de-rampped?

Well... disconnect the battery for 5min. Put the key in ACC position.. reconnect battery. You will hear the Tb making a click followed by a buzzing noise..
get back in the car hold down the gas(all the way) for 15+ seconds and turn the key to off.(resetting shift points) Turn it back on, let idle for a bit and take it for a rip.


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (okocim)*

Thanks Okocim, so there are actually few more tricks in order to reset the shifting points. I will try that tonight. That applies to MKIII may I ask? I noticed you have MKIII too.
I have driven it for a good 100 miles after the TB job.... Nice to feel the throttle response improved, but driving becomes a pain as it shift after revved up higher than before


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## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (helee4)*

Well, most tb's after 1996 have motors on them, and are lazer welded together. No way to take shaft out so you can bore them







You CAN do it with the webers, and old TB if you can take them completely apart. This is same with US cars. I have a saleen mustang TB and it is drive by wire. No way to bore it.
With good machine stuff, making a butterfly is the easy part. Bore it out, and also lenthen the slat int he shaft a bit. I say that is not hard. Just need a good machine shop.
The crappy part is that this technique wil not work on newer fully electronic TB's.
You are better off concentrating on boost, head porting and other stuff.
If you go stand alone, you could use a TB from a mustang, or from a vr6 OBD1......


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (fast84gti)*

No offense here, but did you look at the DIY? You are not technically boring out the TB, but rather de-ramping it. While the gains may not be "noticable," they will in fact help to add up in the bigger picture because lets face it, us OBD-II folk need all the help we can get. Plus this is basically a free* mod, so its hard to not justify it








*minus the cost of supplies of course


----------



## fast84gti (Mar 2, 2003)

*Re: (abawp)*

No, some dude asked if he could bore it. A few companies use to offer overbore dual TB's for the older cars. Quite nice, actually.


----------



## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

i need help i did this today to my mk4 2.0l and i actually felt some performence out of it the thing is that it gave me a CEL and it smells like gas alot of gas could some one help me


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (mk42point0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk42point0* »_i need help i did this today to my mk4 2.0l and i actually felt some performence out of it the thing is that it gave me a CEL and it smells like gas alot of gas could some one help me 

Get the codes scanned, then we can go from there. Also, double check your connections, you may have forgotten to connect something (like the MAF). Also, if you have any before shots of the TB, can you post them?


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## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

u cant see how big the bump is but you could see how its not pefectly round i made it round by taking of the ramp and it actually feels alot better it compliments my cam but it has a CEL now and it smells like alot of gas


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (mk42point0)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk42point0* »_u cant see how big the bump is but you could see how its not pefectly round i made it round by taking of the ramp and it actually feels alot better it compliments my cam but it has a CEL now and it smells like alot of gas 

Did you notice a difference in idle after you did this? Any vibrations from the engine at idle??


----------



## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

yup idle feels differnt now i could here the exhaust kind of poping a bit and the engine is really jumpy but when dirving it doesent feel bad well not so far. am a little scared to drive it


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## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

plase i need some help


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## Cubix (Jul 26, 2002)

*Re: (mk42point0)*

This is great
I'm a little iffy doing this on my VR6, however, I've heard the a mild de-ramping paired with a 2.9 clone works great.
hmm... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

mk42point0, think I am at similar situation as you are. I have a mkIII automatic jetta. After derampping, first gear to second gear always feels a big jerk. Take the car to around 65 mph, I can feel there are some spots my car loose power a little (is the bucking?) Could it be the I didn't deramp round enough? So, during acceleration the air coming in is no longer uniform as before ? It is almost too scare to drive, because I don't know where those "spots" are, where I loose hp for a little during acceleration (again, is this bucking?). Wehn we deramp, should be focus on the hump close to the butterfly, and make sure that is flat and round? Then, extend the de-ramp to outter part?


----------



## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

thats almost exactly what happening with me but i installed a cam and the T/B de-ramp bt my idle is bad and the CEl went up and i feel like i should have more power sometimes my car was faster before on 3rd gear and now its a little slower i dont know what this could be we need help


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

any help? 
I am wondering if the roundness after we trimmed off would matter. I took a close look at the gap between the bufferfly and the openning, I can see few areas that the gap seems to be small, if that could cause uneven air-flow... ideas?


----------



## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

Yea i dont think you supposed to sand down the area where the butterfly touches the inside of the TB. I think it messes with the air flow at idle...


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

This thread makes me LOL.


----------



## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

This thread makes tdogg74 Laugh Out Loud...


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

no, i didn't sand down that area. I was more trying to say keep the sanded area round and even, so that when I looked at the TB from one end, I can see the gap between the between evenly.
Now, my main problem is this (I have a 2.0 auotmatic):
1) 1st gear to 2nd gear doesn't shift until it revved up to about 3k, and the shift becomes VERY jerky. I can get away by slowly let the car pickup speed, then it will shift at lower rpm. But it almost likely it is not getting enough power/speed until higher rpm, unless the car already has some momentum. This is the biggest problem
2) Drive the car to around 70 mph, I can feel lose of power (bucking?) for a small spot. Do you think this is because the area I sanded is not smooth enough? Should I even sand out the are close to the butterfuly hinge? Because this is the area I could get to now, unless I took out the TB assembly. 
3) Restting shift point: I followed the instruction from okocim, one area I am worried. Do I relly need to press on acceralator "all the way" down for 15 seconds to reset? Because engine revved to 6k when a bit more than half way on the gas pedal. Or "All the way" mean before touching redline?
Help Help! Worse case, anyone has a stock MKIII TB for sale?


----------



## renngolf (Aug 25, 2005)

*Re: (helee4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *helee4* »_
3) Restting shift point: I followed the instruction from okocim, one area I am worried. Do I relly need to press on acceralator "all the way" down for 15 seconds to reset? Because engine revved to 6k when a bit more than half way on the gas pedal. Or "All the way" mean before touching redline?
Help Help! Worse case, anyone has a stock MKIII TB for sale?

Dude NOOOOOOO... You have to turn the key to ACC, so the lights on your cluster will be on and car is getting power off the battery but the car is NOT RUNNING. Then you press the gas pedal down for 15 or so seconds and then release and turn the key to OFF.
this thread makes me el o el also.


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (helee4)*

sorry, a lot of typo in my previous post.. but please help me


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (helee4)*

awesome!!! you guys are all watching this thread! let me run to my garage now (too scared to drive to work today with my jerky transmission)


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (helee4)*

Took it out for a speed after reset, it seems to be smoother but it is still not as good from 1st to 2nd gear. Sometimes it still revs higher before it shifts and jerky from time to time... running lean? If yes, any fix?
The bucking problem now transfered. when it started hestiating when it reaches past 70 mph. Wonder if the humps close to the butterfly hinge is causing this?


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (helee4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *helee4* »_Took it out for a speed after reset, it seems to be smoother but it is still not as good from 1st to 2nd gear. Sometimes it still revs higher before it shifts and jerky from time to time... running lean? If yes, any fix?
The bucking problem now transfered. when it started hestiating when it reaches past 70 mph. Wonder if the humps close to the butterfly hinge is causing this?

Just out of curiosity....do you still have the screen attached to the front of the MAF? Or did you remove it?


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Do you mean the mesh/screen for the MAF housing? I have never done anythign to my MAF, so I guess it is still there. How about you guys? Is that a common mod to remove to increase air flow, or it is almost a must for this TB de-ramp mod?


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Leave the screen. Car runs like **** without it.


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (helee4)*

The mesh on the MAF housing shouldn't be removed. Removal does little/nothing to increase airflow, and is there to allow the air to straighten/smooth itself so the MAF gets an accurate reading. Removal is 100% *unnecessary* for the TB modification.


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

Thanks, mine is still there. 
Do you think having very smooth de-ramping is necessary? How about you guys? Did you totally derampped, meaning same thinknesss from the end of the TB to before the bufferfly? Did you remove the hump at the butterfly hinge? I wonder if this mod is only good for manual tranmission, but I also saw other remeber he has good result after the mod. The last step sanding with 800 grid sandpaper necessary? The Dremel bit only has up to 240 grid..


----------



## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: (helee4)*

Its not 100% needed to sand. On my 2.0 automatic, the second TB I did only had the front section smooth, the back end is still roughed up from the 240 grit wheel, but this is because I got lazy. I believe the bucking or "flat spots" are caused by a lean condition; ECU reads 25% throttle position, expects the MAF to read at 2v, but is registering at 3v while the fuel map is set at 2v MAF signal (just throwing some numbers out). Only thing I can think of would be to get a chip, but someone mentioned earlier that TT won't necessarily make a custom burn for a modded TB as the gains would be 'negligable.' Unplugging the MAF would cause a generic "rich" condition and a CEL. However, I never experienced any bucking troubles until I fixed my CEL (maf "failed," threw a MAF code, but fixed with a cleaning).
I have a tune-up coming on my Golf and I have been running into the same bucking problems others have ran into. I will inspect the spark plugs and post up pictures to make sure that I am not causing any problems with these lean spots. Afterwards, I will experiment with an unplugged MAF and see how things go from there.


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (abawp)*

So, I guess your bucking problem was temporarily gone when the MAF was not functioning? 
So, at this point I am not so sure if sanding more can help, ie making it rounder or smoother.... Cuz it will only increase air flow and leaner condition. 
Only thing I can think of now is could this is my P-Chip from Neuspeed is not adapting at all?
I am also surprise to know that was your second TB and still having bucking problem...


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## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

mine CEL went away and my idle is 100% now and all i did was pumped some 91 octane gas weird but it works now and i dont know why


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (mk42point0)*

really!!!?? Do you have aftermarket chip?


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

You should also make sure you TB is as smooth as possible. This isn't like a two hour project, you have to get it perfect or your going to experiencing problems. If it's not perfectly smooth, go back and give it some love until it is perfect.


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## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

no i dont have a chip thats why i found it very weird


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (ll Black Blurr ll)*

Black Blurr II, how smooth is yours? Did you remove the hump close to the butterfly hinge? It is difficult to tell if is fully round, or some flat point on the TB? Do you have any tips, rather than feeling with finger? do you see any "streaks" from your sanding at all? I do see a little of that.


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

The mk4 and mk3 TB are different. The mk3s have one hump and the mk4s have 2 little humps. Mine isn't fully and perfectly smooth.







I still have work to do on it. It drives fine, it just has a weird idle, the engine vibrates randomly and i can feel it from the inside. Will be done soon though...




_Modified by ll Black Blurr ll at 6:51 PM 4-4-2007_


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (ll Black Blurr ll)*

Just sanded TB again to get a smoother finish... didn't have chance to test out yet cause of bad weather... But I am feeling skeptical about this now....


----------



## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (helee4)*

I did this:
- swap back with stock chip
- more sanding to make TB smoother and rounder
Drove to work this morning, the bucking problem now moved down from driving 70 mph to about 65 mph. But because of replaced with the stock chip, I am not sure if this is the affect of more sanding or the chip. But I am trying to imagine how the butterfly opens up, I am still wondering if the hump close to the butterfly hinge has an affect on this. Since with less throttle, air would be flowing in from the top and the bottom part of the TB. As it opens up, more air will start flowing in from the side. Perhaps at one point, there could be a "step" increase of air flow, which the ECU not able to adapt? Possible? Just my wild guess... 

mk42point0: were you using 89 octane before then switched to 91? Or you were using 93 then switched to 91?


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## mk42point0 (Oct 21, 2006)

I was using 87 octane before and then switched to 91 octane


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (mk42point0)*

I am out of idea.. maybe the next step is to dremel out the "rampped" part, so that it is completely round


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

I'm almost done with mine, Ill post pics later on...


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## twicepardoned (May 2, 2006)

Sanding it out will NOT change the result of the bore. It will if you're pushing HIGH HP numbers and you're trying to get every last drop of power but it won't cause your car to buck like a horse.
I think we've been keeping tabs via PM.?.? right that's you?
DId you check the TPS for cleanliness? After I bored mine it was fine for a long time but at some point the sensor got gummed up and it can't tell what TP you are at... based on that it caused my car to buck like MAD and also would switch gears in the wrong RPMs... all kinds of crazyness.
Just pull the TPS aparts and check the 'slide' sensor


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (twicepardoned)*

Thanks both both you! I was about to do IM you in the forum..
It just did my last attempt before I will buy a stock TB. I have sanded out so that it is almost completely rounded, and checked from looking at different angle. I guess that's pretty much the best I can do without a proper machine. Now, the TB should has the same diameter from the openning to the butterfly. 
I finished up with 1000 grid sandpaper (by hand)... Unplugged and re-plugged battery, and reset shift points. Idle seems as before (which I never have problem with idle). Haven't took it out for a test drive yet. But to be honest, I am not putting putting too much hope now, after taking out the TB resand for more than 5 times... So, I would say this is my last attempt..
twicepardoned: you have TB for sell for MKIII jetta/golf? Please don't sell it yet








II Black Blur II/twicepardoned: Would really like to see your finished product. Want to see how mine looks different than yours...


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (helee4)*

BTW, I haven't checked the "slide plate" yet, cuz I don't have the right torx bit... will do after I took it out for a test ride if it still bucks..


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

Heres what mine looks like, it still has the 2 little humps but they are very small. Its an AEG and No bucking problems at all... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

















































Yes it's very dirty on the outside










_Modified by ll Black Blurr ll at 3:33 PM 4-8-2007_


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## RedBeetkeon18z (Jun 18, 2006)

I give you all props.. looking good... makes me wanna do mine in a minute.. so u guys use 50 grit first ah and finish it with waht?


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (RedBeetkeon18z)*

After the dremel i used 150, 200, 400, 600, 800, 1000 and then 1000 wet sand. Took a while though...


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## RedBeetkeon18z (Jun 18, 2006)

its worth every penny tho.. believe it laddat


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (ll Black Blurr ll)*

I have a dumb question, what is AEG? I guess mine is obdII since I have a 98 2.0 jetta. 
I would have mine is pretty much the best I can do, but yours looks muccch better than mine. I think I can still sand it more to give a smoother finish
How long did you have to drive before your car fully adapted to it?


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

AEG is an engine code. To adapt it disconnect your battery (-) for 15 minutes, connect it back up, then when you go to start your car dont turn the keyy all the way. Turn it to acc so all the lights are on on your dash and let it sit there for couple of minutes. You will be able to hear the TB making noise as it's adapting.


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (ll Black Blurr ll)*

I also asked this to other member. 
Did you sand out the ridge (about 1mm) at the opposite side of the hump? I can imagine leaving it there can cause some turbulence? 
So, after adapting with disconnecting/reconnecting battery, did you car buck in the beginning, and later got adapted with more driving? Everytime I did more sanding, I took it out for a short drive (<10 miles), so I am not sure if that is enough for the car to get adapted, and to get over the "bucking" period.


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

Even after the TB adaptation my car still idled higher than normal but it went back to normal after a couple of start up cycles. You just have to give the ECU time to adapt for the extra air flow.


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (ll Black Blurr ll)*

I see, so I should still give it some hope.... It is rather difficult to drive now with all the bucking.. did you experience that in the beginning? If yes, do you remember how long it finally adapted... I am trying to see if I should still drive it to work, or take it out for drive at night in attempt to adapt
How about the ridge opposite to the humps, did you remove?


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## ll Black Blurr ll (Sep 24, 2004)

*Re: (helee4)*

No, i didnt have any bucking when i first did it just a higher idle. Try the adaptation first. Like I said disconnect the battery for 10-15 mins(negative only), reconnect it, turn the key(so all lights on the dash come on) and leave it like that for maybe 2 mins. If you have your hood open you should be able to hear the TB making noise, once it's done try driving it. I have no clue what you mean about the ridge opposite of the humps.


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## helee4 (Jul 31, 2001)

*Re: (ll Black Blurr ll)*

I see... maybe because you have a MKIV, and the ridge is not there? But no bucking or adapting period for you, that's very good... I was hoping to hear someone with late modle MKIII 2.0 automatic was able to get over the initial bucking period..


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## mlsadler (Apr 16, 2002)

What do the humps do? Obviously they are there for a reason. I mean if the vehicles run so well with the TB deramped why wouldn't they come that way from the factory?


_Modified by mlsadler at 10:10 PM 4-18-2007_


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

I'm in the middle of spring cleaning my engine bay, so i thought i would snap off a few pics of my tb setup. (its still got cleaning solvent on it, Im still claning it out)


































_Modified by tdogg74 at 8:36 AM 4-21-2007_


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## domlicious (Dec 5, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gltuner* »_This mod is definitely worth doing!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
First, tools that will be needed:
One dremel tool and accessories
....


2 questions... gotta 98 gti 2.0 stock... which TB is better to use...OBDI or OBDII?
also, which grit levels did you do by dremel and which by hand? i'm assuming the 400 - 1000 grits were by hand??
any concern on doing this with an engine at 130k MIs?
thanks!!



_Modified by domlicious at 9:16 AM 4-30-2007_


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## couch god 5000 (Apr 16, 2007)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (.late_apex.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *.late_apex.* »_Really? Wow, ok I stand corrected. Everytime I've seen someone deramp an OBDII TB without correcting it with software there has been a CEL. Maybe there is a happy medium that I am unaware of. I know you can do it if you know someone who will write you custom software, I was just under the impression that it couldn't be done without it.

i really hope i can port out the tb without it having a hissy fit.....oh wait....i'm doing itb's soon.....hrmmmmm.......good DIY thread though http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_I'm in the middle of spring cleaning my engine bay, so i thought i would snap off a few pics of my tb setup. (its still got cleaning solvent on it, Im still claning it out)









Ok, as of this pic, I had just finished COMPLETELY removing all sempblance of the humps. So after I put it back onto the car and took it for a shake-down run, anything above 2500rpms in ANY gear caused it to stumble and bog. Below 2500rpms and light throttle was fine, as was WOT in any gear. I think I was passing too much air and it was hosing up the TPS imput to the ECU. It just didnt know what the **** to do with all the air coming in and leaned me out lickety-split!
Got a new TB, completely bone stock, and threw it on last night. Drivability is 110% better over the ported TB. I dont know if its because I am flowing so much air with my set-up or what....but not only did I NOT notice ANY power loss going back to stock, (this includes up to and passed 7000rpms) I also gained back all the low rpm/part throttle snap in my acceleration. With the humps ported, it made a lot of noise, but never really did much until about 4000rpms where I would get this massive boost of power till redline. Now, its instant torque all the way up. I guarentee my torqu curve is a lot more fuller sub-4000rpms if i was to dyno right now. Im not ever going to touch this new TB.
So my conclusion, after 2+ years of having a ported TB and going back to stock is, its not worth it. Well, maybe on a stock 2.0 the added flow migh make some feel a little on the butt-dyno. But I think when you get up there with like a set-up like mine, where moving mass quantities of air isnt an issue, the humps on the TB bore are somewhat necessary to keep the bottom end alive. 


_Modified by tdogg74 at 7:59 AM 5-1-2007_


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

*Re: (tdogg74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_
above 2500rpms in ANY gear caused it to stumble and bog. Below 2500rpms and light throttle was fine, as was WOT in any gear. 


Trav,
I also have the same EXACT issues with my OBD2 Ported TB, and my head is bone stock, it IS an issues with leaning out, because when i had my stock airbox with stock paper filter installed the 'bucking / bogging' was MUCh less severe.
i was talking to the guys over at techtonics and they were saying that it is an issue with the part-throttle fuel map. it CAN be fixed but fuel economy will take a dump and you will not gain much for hp.
i think that _some_ boring out of the humps is beneficial but when you go crazy, and flog it out, its a loss.


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## abawp (Nov 30, 2005)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (domlicious)*


_Quote, originally posted by *domlicious* »_

2 questions... gotta 98 gti 2.0 stock... which TB is better to use...OBDI or OBDII?
also, which grit levels did you do by dremel and which by hand? i'm assuming the 400 - 1000 grits were by hand??
any concern on doing this with an engine at 130k MIs?
thanks!!
_Modified by domlicious at 9:16 AM 4-30-2007_

Make sure you use the same style TB. So if your OBD-II, use an OBD-II TB. The reason behind this is the OBD-I's don't have the electric motors for idle stabalization (they have an ISV separate from the TB).
The grit levels of the dremel wheel were 60 and 100 grit. The 100 grit made life easier when you start using the 220 by hand as you have a slightly smoother surface to start from, but it is not necessary. Anything past 220 grit is hand polished, and is recommended to do a wet sand with 400 grit paper before polishing with a wet sand with the 800 grit paper.


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## mrdub27 (Mar 25, 2002)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (abawp)*

i did my 97 GTI TB and i saw a lil hesitation at mid range and figured no worries.. then i dropped in a FPR from a VR6 and well lil more fuel and a lil more punch now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I'll keep the 3.0bar FPR for emission testing







oh BTW no CEL with the 4.0bar FPR and TB ported..


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## J.Owen (May 31, 2001)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (mrdub27)*

have any of the aeg guys tried a throttle body off a audi 1.8T with the DBC throttle body. I was once led to believe this was a factory ported version of the same throttle body.


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## Powerage (Jun 9, 2007)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (bugasm99)*

I did this mod to my car about 2 weeks ago and ever since I've been idling at 1.1k then slowly going up to 1.2k (takes roughly 6 seconds), then I drop to 900, go instantly back up to 1.1k and repeat. I did some checking and realized I didn't have a MAF grill, I went to a junkyard and got one, put it on and drove around for 10 mins. I'm getting the same idle problem but it seems to take longer to cycle, 'bout 8-9 secs instead of 6. I have an OBD-II 98 GTI 2.0L.


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## zukgod1 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

RE: tdogg74
I know this is a old post but I'm going to hazard a guess as to your weird running condition after the bore.
I dont have the info here but I remember reading that the MAF need to be a min of 8" from the throttle blade to function correctly. Looking at your pic it looks like its about 4-5" away..
Just guessing as there are way more people posting good results from this mod VS bad and your the only one (that posted pics) that has your MAF attached to the TB.
I had my TB in my had this weekend and didnt have time to do it, I will be removing it this weekend or maybe even tonight if I feel well enough.. But then again maybe not. Car runs fine right now and I dont race the damn thing at all.
dan


_Modified by zukgod1 at 10:37 AM 9-24-2007_


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

Nope. I still have my MAF at that distance and have no issues with the new throttle body. I think I took too much out and messed something up. One of these days Im going to clean up this new one and take out a little of material. this time, though, Im going to do it right and only take matarial off the humps to where the TPS changes to a WOT reading on VAGCOM. I feel those humps are necessary for low end tq.


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## zukgod1 (Feb 19, 2007)

*Re: (tdogg74)*

Shoot I guess if the new one is good than what the heck..
I'm going to PU a spare and clean it up soon, as a matter a fact I just had another member IM with with one available








So your thinking you removed to much material then huh? Did you remove some around the throttle blade as well or just hog the crap out of it? The pics sure look good, I like that velocity stack you have attached to the MAF.
I was just going to stick to the ramp removal and then a slight polish of the rest, no where around the throttle blade...

dan


_Modified by zukgod1 at 8:16 PM 9-24-2007_


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## DigiFaNt (Aug 28, 2001)

*Re: (zukgod1)*

I dont think you was suppose to take out that much or that close to the butterfly valves. Im looking at it like this and I could be wrong. Say your TB is you at Micky D's you get 2 #3s and a drink 3 times a day ok. now say you got a raise or something and you can afford to go 6 times a day. you haven't changed how much you can take, you just changing how much you are getting over time. I dont know if that makes any cents or not. its simple through-put over bandwidth. and if you do the other side. you are changing the way the air flows the air will or should speed up when it goes through after the mod. I think to help it out you should find some mandrel bent pipe because that ripple plastic isnt helping out either. Im going to use a 180 bend 2.5 or 3 inch for my intake plumbing and take the PCV out of the formula because the oil that is being recycled back in from the intake drops your octane and chokes the motor slightly. its like having drainage issue when fall comes...


_Modified by DigiFaNt at 8:30 PM 10-26-2007_


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## vw_dubi_mk3 (Sep 14, 2007)

*Re: (DigiFaNt)*

ok there is alot to read here so im just going to ask to be sure i have a 96 obd2 tb now i can shave the ramp down to were it is level with the other side and there will be no bucking and no crazy things?


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## Pitsy (Oct 27, 2007)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

BORING!


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## SLVR SLUG (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To*

ok so im sure im either goin get laughed at or told to just stray away from this... has anyone tried to do this mod on a mkIv particularly the BEV engine? that has drive by wire.


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## SLVR SLUG (Dec 10, 2006)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (BlUnT MeKaNiX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BlUnT MeKaNiX* »_ok so im sure im either goin get laughed at or told to just stray away from this... has anyone tried to do this mod on a mkIv particularly the BEV engine? that has drive by wire.

guess not http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## 161324 (Jul 28, 2004)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (SLVR SLUG)*

Just getting in to the 2.0L forum here.
I know the MKIV VR6, it is a NO NO to port the TB as it messes it up.
Can the same be said for the MKIV 2.0 AEG Drive By Wire?
Just wondering.


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## SLVR SLUG (Dec 10, 2006)

after doing some research ive found out that there are no ramps in the mkiv's TB. so there really is no need to port it out.


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## 161324 (Jul 28, 2004)

*Re: (SLVR SLUG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLVR SLUG* »_after doing some research ive found out that there are no ramps in the mkiv's TB. so there really is no need to port it out.

I haven't looked but thanks for the info.


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## Mark4_2.slow (Jun 7, 2007)

*Re: (silentdub)*

There's absolutely no ramps in any of the mk4 throttle body's?


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## iZOTOPE (Jul 2, 2006)

does anybody know how this mod will act on a digi 1 2.0 2E engine ?


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## CaptainWonderful (Dec 15, 2001)

*Re: (SLVR SLUG)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SLVR SLUG* »_after doing some research ive found out that there are no ramps in the mkiv's TB. so there really is no need to port it out.

There are ramps on my MKIV TB.....


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## Cheney (May 29, 2006)

*Re: (CaptainWonderful)*

same here... got an extra tb from a friend to try it out and its not a big difference but it breathes better up top
a little comparison... its not a great picture to really show the difference


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## drewsless2000VW (Dec 17, 2008)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (HK1980)*

so i just dehumped my 2.0 tb but now it runs like **** .. it doesnt want to idle and it runs really choppy and sputters when im just cruising . but it runs fine when im getting on it .. you know what it might be ?


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## DubChub (Nov 19, 2007)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (drewsless2000VW)*

So this is where all of the ABA TB of the world are going.... damn..


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## veeehubb (Jan 29, 2009)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

is this a big power change? i know the sound will be a little more juicy


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## ZAK attack (Mar 7, 2009)

*Re: (gltuner)*

I have a '01 Jetta 2.0L and was wondering if I could do this to my TB without any problems like bogging and if my research is correct I have OBD-II, any issues?? thanks


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## mostoftheABA (Nov 17, 2008)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Mr Mini)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Mini* »_overkill?















(Kilkenny







)
Graham.

_Modified by Mr Mini at 6:58 PM 9-25-2005_

i don't think so http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
that's the only metal I removed in my TB (just for that **** hair more air at full throttle) so i tell myself
what is the point of boring out the front and back of the TB if your not making the butterfly plate any bigger along with it?
by then aftermarket throttle body right?
obd2 and no idle issues with only the TB plate shaft shaved like Mr Mini's above


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## leskie (Jan 26, 2009)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (HK1980)*

Thanks for the great idea! I've done 2 tb's already obd1 and obd2. Both with great results! Crisp throttle response with no loss in drivability. This mod performs better than my CAI. Thanks glturner!!!.


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## TRFwhitey (Feb 23, 2009)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (leskie)*

I just completed my TB mod as well. However with all the negative comments I decided to do a mild mod to mine. All I did was remove about 2mm from the humps and smoothed the inner walls and outter edge of the intake side. I only noticed a small increase in throttle response but the biggest difference was its smooth idle and power delivery. Best part is it only cost me $8.99 for TB cleaner!


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## Justaviper (Jul 24, 2007)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (gltuner)*

Ok guys, I did mine and im on a 8v 2.0L Turbo'd motor. This didnt end well for me at all
I de-ramped it (dont think i "hogged it out"). Put it back on and went for a drive. First 5-10 mins of driving was awesome, it was loud and mean sounding. Pulled great and was VERY responsive. 
But after the first 5-10 mins it got ugly. It bogged down TERRIBLY and started bucking and kicking all over the place. Couldnt get it to accelerate because it was bogged down, and it would buck under any gas. 

I Dont think that i "hogged it out" but i have something wrong. The car idled high when i first started it too....
Any help would be greatly appreciated
*edit* page 8 is mine biotches


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## Pitsy (Oct 27, 2007)

*Re: Boring Throttle Body How-To (Justaviper)*

BORING!


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## icallshotgunVW (Aug 2, 2009)

*Re: (gltuner)*

the pedal was sagging in my friends gti. we took out the clip on the throttle cable and replaced it further on the cabl, it raised his pedal. the damn throttle opened like 3/4s the way on his car until we did that. then the car came alive.


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## CWorthington (Sep 2, 2009)

I think this topic needs a complete redo.
Should include in a single post:
How - to (w/ highlights)
Safety
Pros
Cons
With these this mod would be so much clearer.
Please do this for me,
Thanks, Colton


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## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: (CWorthington)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CWorthington* »_
Please do this for me,
Thanks, Colton

Do it Yourself.


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## CWorthington (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: (independent77)*

There are eight pages, i didnt make this mod, i did not attempt it, and i would if i could understand more about it. Thats why i asked.


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## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: (CWorthington)*

read 8 pages, flip a coin, decide for yourself.
Or were you looking for someone to hold your hand??


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## CWorthington (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: (independent77)*

Looking for a conclusion from someone with experience.
Why do you have such problems with someone asking for help?
That is why there are fourms. If you didnt want to help me out or anyone else who might just come along the same way i feel about this, then why waste your time at all by saying something in the first place?


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## Jay-Bee (Sep 22, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *CWorthington* »_Looking for a conclusion from someone with experience.
Why do you have such problems with someone asking for help?
That is why there are fourms. If you didnt want to help me out or anyone else who might just come along the same way i feel about this, then why waste your time at all by saying something in the first place?










We do it for the lulz.


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## ajax1977 (Mar 16, 2005)

*Re: (tampaveedub)*

got a new project this saturday http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## independent77 (May 23, 2003)

*Re: (CWorthington)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CWorthington* »_Looking for a conclusion from someone with experience.


If you read the 8 pages, You will have found your answer.
People have had mixed results with this. obd2 cars have had mostly negative results.
figure it out.


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## CWorthington (Sep 2, 2009)

*Re: (independent77)*

Thanks, all it took was for someone that had another opinion on this to convince me its not entirely worth it.
Thank you!


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## GL03 (Sep 1, 2003)

You need to keep sand or dirt from getting into the butterfly shaft. If it lodges in , it will cause premature wear or other problems.

When you do this keep that in mind. Tilting the throttle so that the metal removed comes off away from being thrown into the shaft. 

The throttle can be finished with 2000 grit sandpaper and hand polished to mirror finish. 


The post was going so well and then...........50 cents?


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## Robilon (Jan 27, 2012)

People who have failed this has no idea of the airflow, they have just gone ape**** with the whole thing.. you don't have to think much to figure out why there is such humps. Now if you figure that out you know how to de-ramp the thing correctly.. Use your head..


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