# MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE



## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

Is it worth the $ to upgrade to the 337/TT/20th AE rear brakes?
This is for my daily driver. I want this for a performance upgrade not looks. I dont autocross but is driven hard on the street. I have checked out http://www.ecstuning.com for prices and its almost twice the price of the fronts. I will be doing the fronts once they go bad but since the rears go out faster and since I have 35k miles on them I know they are on their way out.
Would I just be better off doing normal upgrades to the rear like better rotors and pads?
Thank you again.


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (VWGolfA4)*

i wouldnt even bother upgrading the rear, AT ALL.  leave it stock. i enguage the ABS on my car all the time, but usually its just the rears cause the rear just gets so light when the brakes are to the floor. If anything i'd want to downgrade my rear brake system. I'd just get the best brakes you can afford upfront, good fluid, and most importantly good tires. good brakes mean nothing if you cant apply it to the ground.


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## NOVAdub (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (VWGolfA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGolfA4* »_Is it worth the $ to upgrade to the 337/TT/20th AE rear brakes?
Would I just be better off doing normal upgrades to the rear like better rotors and pads?

Not really worth it unless you are going to be racing. Your front brakes do probably 90% of the stopping so that is where you need to upgrade. Like banditt said, get the fronts taken care of, get SS lines all around, put in some brake fluid, (not ate superblue if you have a mk4) and get some good tires. That would be a pretty solid street setup. If after that you feel the need to upgrade the rear I would start with a better pad/rotor combo. Or you can look in to upgrading the rear rotor to a TT size rotor. 


_Modified by NOVAdub at 6:13 PM 6-22-2004_


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## Dragonfly (Dec 9, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (VWGolfA4)*

Yes the brakes are worth it. Especially if you get a larger set of rotors in the front that come stock on the AE's or 337 or TT's for better heat handling. Like others have said most of your braking is done with the front brakes. I rarely get ABS and I drive aggressively in the canyons.


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## eggroller (May 25, 2000)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (NOVAdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NOVAdub* »_not ate superblue if you have a mk4
Why do you state not to use the ATE Super Blue on the MK4? Is it because of the shared fluid to the clutch?


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## wuzilla (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (eggroller)*

Yup ... odd, this is the first time I've ever heard this mentioned on the vortex (I asked a while back). Audi guys seem to have this figured out. It seems to cause squeaky/sticky clutch pedal syndrome.


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## 2 doors (Jun 18, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE ([email protected])*

Wow. I wish I knew this earlier. I have been running Super Blue in mine since last fall. Just recently I have developed a squeaky clutch pedal. I thought is was just because the car was getting older. Will this cause any permanent damage? What are other options for high performance brake fluid for a MkIV?


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## wuzilla (Oct 14, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (2 doors)*

I still have it in my car (been there for way longer then ANY brake fluid should be in a car.) I'm going to run OEM for awhile to flush everything out, then I'm switching to Motuls - heard there's no issue with them.


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE ([email protected])*

Any other opinions, Im starting to save for the rears...


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## rowdyzombie (Jan 18, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (VWGolfA4)*

Well, I had a 00 GTI GLX and now a 02 GTI 337. My 337 is only 144 lbs lighter, but the brakes just rock. I did like the 11.3 fronts on the vr6, but I hated the rears. It's like the same as my 86 GTI/9 inch solid. The pads wore out way too quickly, and I could literally smell my rear pads cooking often when I got out of the car. With the rear vented, I've never smelt it, and it's rotor/pads run much cooler. 
As for it's bang for the buck, the fronts are a better deal. But the front's are already good. The rears aren't bad, they just aren't good stock. The rears are expensive, as you need the splash guard, etc. I would say it's worthwhile, but more for longevity and peace of mind that super braking performance. You could cheap out and get slotted rears and better pads, then get 337 front. Up to you, but like I said, my 337 brakes like a Porsche and it's only 144 lbs lighter.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## CarNut84GTi (Oct 2, 2002)

I know it's a touch off topic, but Eurospec has a pretty good rear brake upgrade that's really reasonably priced. There's a GB going on them in the classifieds
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1471852


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: (CarNut84GTi)*

I think the vented rotors are better arent they?


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## NOVAdub (Jul 28, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (2 doors)*

Motul RBF 600 is ok to use in VW/Audi.


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## 1stVR6 (Mar 27, 2002)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (VWGolfA4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWGolfA4* »_Any more opinions on the Rear Upgrade? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

I got one...
I've discussed this topic with people who know more about MKIV braking than I...
MKIVs do come have a front to rear brake bias valve. That's is the reason why when you perform threshold braking, the rears are the first to lock up. The fact that there is little weight in the back also contribute to this.
Vented vs. Solid - Vented is better, but like spending $40/liter for racing brake fluid, do you need it? I remember recently looking up some brake setups on a few performance street cars. Only about half came with rear vented rotors (such as porsches, m-series). Some of the lighter weight two seaters all came with rear solid disks.
This, plus the cost of upgradeing rear brake correctly (buying new wheels bearings and a dust shield) does not justify rear brake upgrade for me. I think switching to better pads and getting some OEM size cross-drilled or slotted rotors will be all I need.
Save the money for the front brakes...
I autocross and am starting to track my car. I got brake fade with stock brakes but another car just like mine did really well on a local track with TT upgrades in front and stock except pads in the back.


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (1stVR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1stVR6* »_
I got one...
I've discussed this topic with people who know more about MKIV braking than I...
MKIVs do come have a front to rear brake bias valve. That's is the reason why when you perform threshold braking, the rears are the first to lock up. The fact that there is little weight in the back also contribute to this.
Vented vs. Solid - Vented is better, but like spending $40/liter for racing brake fluid, do you need it? I remember recently looking up some brake setups on a few performance street cars. Only about half came with rear vented rotors (such as porsches, m-series). Some of the lighter weight two seaters all came with rear solid disks.
This, plus the cost of upgradeing rear brake correctly (buying new wheels bearings and a dust shield) does not justify rear brake upgrade for me. I think switching to better pads and getting some OEM size cross-drilled or slotted rotors will be all I need.
Save the money for the front brakes...
I autocross and am starting to track my car. I got brake fade with stock brakes but another car just like mine did really well on a local track with TT upgrades in front and stock except pads in the back.


Hehe, you're talking about me, right Rich?








Yeah save your money for the front brakes and better pads! The MKIV is definitley biased towards the rear. A grippy pad like Ferodo DS2500 up front helps a lot! Check the link in my signature for all my specs.
BTW Rich, where do you autocross? I want to do that this summer!!! I think the TT brakes might bump me into STX class, although since I've never gone I'd probably just be in novice...


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## boomer719 (May 3, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (phatvw)*

I bought everything I needed to do both front and rear, used, for $600.00 from someone that had wrecked his 20AE. 
I found the out that I could have bought just the calipers and carriers and got new rotors fairly reasonable, but ended up buying the whole used system and installing it myself. 
Added new pads (Pagid..$100.00/whole car) and brake fluid (ATE blue $12.00 quart), trimmed the stock splash shield in the rear and used the shields from the wreck up front and finished the install a few days ago. Brakes feel great and nicely fill the wheel space on my new 18" wheels. Had a small problem with the rears, turns out I was sold the wrong pads and will get that fixed tomorrow. 
So I would say if it is in your budget, do the swap for both appearance with aftermarket wheels and better stopping power.




_Modified by boomer719 at 1:52 AM 7-21-2004_


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## The Mailman (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (boomer719)*

I want to do this too (F&R) and I thought that if you wanted to upgrade to 20AE/337 rotors that all I would need is the rotors and the caliper carriers. Is this correct?? I've heard mention of different splash shields, etc, but I thought that was if you went to an even larger setup.


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## boomer719 (May 3, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (The Mailman)*

The splash shields in the rear require that you remove the hub and bearing assembly if you want to change them to accomodate the larger vented rotor. Since I could not get a definite answer on what is involved in removing and replacing this bearing assembly, I took a mini grinder with a cut off wheel and just trimmed off the lip. Most of the shield is still there and does offer some protection. The fronts were easy. Just a few bolts hold them on and can be easily accessed once the rotor is removed.
As far as the rears go, I am not sure that you can get away using the same stock caliper. The stock brake is a 9.1" non-vented disc (thin) and the upgrade is a 10" vented (thicker) rotor. The rear calipers I got from a wrecked 20AE are aluminum while the stock rear calipers are steel. The fronts will work with just the larger rotor and carrier using the stock caliper. I would be surprised if you could do the same on the rears. 



_Modified by boomer719 at 7:06 PM 7-23-2004_


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## The Mailman (Oct 22, 2003)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (boomer719)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boomer719* »_As far as the rears go, I am not sure that you can get away using the same stock caliper. The stock brake is a 9.1" non-vented disc (thin) and the upgrade is a 10" vented (thicker) rotor. The rear calipers I got from a wrecked 20AE are aluminum while the stock rear calipers are steel. The fronts will work with just the larger rotor and carrier using the stock caliper. I would be surprised if you could do the same on the rears. 


Yeah, I thought of this after posting, but didn't bother to edit. My friend has a '04 GLI and when we put on his new wheels last week, I noticed how much larger his rear caliper was than mine (b/c his spacers weren't large enough, yet they worked great on my car). So, I'd then need the calipers too....not worth it to me. MKIV's are more rear biased anyway aren't they?? So, if I did a 20AE front setup w/ Hawk HPS pads and then just HPS pads in the rear, this should be a golden setup right?? I could get some x-drilled rear rotors if I wanted some form of venting I suppose. I'd have to do front too though to look uniform. BTW, where is a site that sells x-drilled rotors in 20AE size?? Just curious b/c I checked out ECS one night and I don't think tney do.


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## VWGolfA4 (Apr 5, 2000)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (The Mailman)*

I believe http://www.ecstuning.com sells them
http://www.ecstuning.com/stage...aking
I think they are x-drilled and slotted, not just x-drilled.


_Modified by VWGolfA4 at 11:03 AM 7-24-2004_


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## boomer719 (May 3, 2004)

*Re: MKIV Rear Brake Upgrade to 337/TT/20th AE (The Mailman)*

I wasn't going to do my brakes at all until I found this setup on the web. I still had some life left in my stock brakes and did the upgrade because I got the parts cheap. I also thought the bigger brake and red caliper with my wheels would look good. The brakes feel about the same, but definitely stop better after hard driving.


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