# chips :thumbdown:



## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

well i have the kinetic stage 1 right now and if you have read my other posts i am having misfire problems. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3002349
i am convinced it is my chip. this is my second c2 chip and i have had it. i need my car back. im thinking of switching to a new brand chip. what is a good reliable company to go with since i dont want to have to deal with this again. i'm willing to eat the cost of this c2 chip just to be done with it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif also which chip from that company? i have 42# injectors


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: chips :thumbdown: (vee_rub)*

start of with checking codes,the pressure test entire system,then check maf values,Lambda values .


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: chips :thumbdown: ([email protected])*

i dont have a vag. i rented the generic scanner from autozone and my codes included low voltage to o2 sensor 1 bank 1, so i replaced that o2 and it had multiple misfire codes. i still havent got a straight answer on how to pressure test the system


_Modified by vee_rub at 10:09 AM 1-27-2007_


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: chips :thumbdown: (vee_rub)*

I have been un-able to help you because of a lack of information
from you.
Generic obd2 scanner codes do not tell me what the ecu is actually seeing/doing.
I will do what I can to help you, but if you cannot get VW diag. information for me I cannot help.
My opionion is that the maf sensor may be in backwards or th ecu is getting a poor signal from the maf sensor.
For testing try this:
But in stock maf, stock inj. stock chip. See how car runs.
Stay under ~5psi if you road test it, but you'll be able to begin tracking down your issues.

-Jeff

_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:19 PM 1-27-2007_


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:37 PM 1-27-2007_


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: chips :thumbdown: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_I have been un-able to help you because of a lack of information
from you.
Generic obd2 scanner codes do not tell me what the ecu is actually seeing/doing.
I will do what I can to help you, but if you cannot get VW diag. information
for me I cannot help.
My opionion is that the maf sensor may be in backwards or th ecu is getting a poor signal from the maf sensor.
-Jeff

_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:19 PM 1-27-2007_

dont take this as a bash on c2 i dont mean to bash c2 at all, i just want my car to work again. how would i put tthe maf in backwards? it only fits in one way. the other way the screws wont lign up. if it is a poor signal to the maf i dont know why it would be happening cause it wasnt befo4re the turbo install. also the connections are all good. ????


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: chips :thumbdown: (vee_rub)*

do you have an OE VR6 MAF housing, or a 3" AL housing?
its easy to install a 3" maf housing ~backwards as both ends are 3".
OE houisng has the 'grid' towards the intake filter.
How am I not supposed to take this a 'C2 bash' when your car runs
poorly and your conclusion is that the software is ~bad.
I didn't supply the software to you. Kinetic supplied your turbo kit.

-Jeff


_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:44 PM 1-27-2007_


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: chips :thumbdown: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_do you have an OE VR6 MAF housing, or a 3" AL housing?
its easy to install a 3" maf housing ~backwards as both ends are 3".
OE houisng has the 'grid' towards the intake filter.
How am I not supposed to take this a 'C2 bash' when your car runs
poorly and your conclusion is that the software is ~bad.
I didn't supply the software to you. Kinetic supplied your turbo kit.

-Jeff
maf was flipped and then it wouldnt even idle
it is a 3" al housing. i have been in contact with kinetic and they just keep having me spend more and more $$ on this and it isnt solving the problem. how do i know if i instaalled the housing backwards?

_Modified by Jefnes3 at 12:44 PM 1-27-2007_



_Modified by vee_rub at 1:54 PM 1-27-2007_


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: chips :thumbdown: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_well i have the kinetic stage 1 right now and if you have read my other posts i am having misfire problems. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3002349
i am convinced it is my chip. this is my second c2 chip and i have had it. i need my car back. im thinking of switching to a new brand chip. what is a good reliable company to go with since i dont want to have to deal with this again. i'm willing to eat the cost of this c2 chip just to be done with it. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif also which chip from that company? i have 42# injectors

C2 Stage II software here, as far as software goes it is excellent.. Any problems I have had with software has been fixed by Jeff.. Ive had it run like crap and was a pita to track down but the software had nothing to do with it. You can throw another ECU into it but if its not put together properly then its just going to give you the same result.
Best go back and triple check everything, get your self access to a vag-com or else you will just run around in circles with any turbo kit.. If you cant afford any of this then I recommend going back to stock or getting a new job cause its not going to get any cheaper from here


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

as always...
the problem isn't the software, its the build. When the build is right, the software works. This is from experience that I know this. 
If you have issues with your car/install - changing software won't help you.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

consider the fact that many people run the exact same chip as you without problems; what changed? Most likely your chip isn't slightly different from everyone elses.
Everytime I've had a problem with my car I pointed a finger at Jeff and it's always been on my end.
My $0.02


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## GTI...VRsicks (Jun 17, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

ALL I know is from the problems Ive been having with my VRT dont get a chip from EIP I bought big injector software and they forget the whole injector file... you tell me how thats possible...


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: (GTI...VRsicks)*

well my car runs like poop topend.... i got the car at 72,000 and all records from new.. ran great... i put the kentics stage one kit on... i know what i'm doing.. and it misses.. i've done everything to track down this problem.. and it still does it.. i'm not the only one, that is having the same issue, i've done plugs, wires, coil pack, and maf... i know the kit runs rich.. i have run out of things to check.. i know people that a have great luck with the stage 2 stuff . . . i'm at a loss . . .


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (fastrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastrabbit* »_well my car runs like poop topend.... i got the car at 72,000 and all records from new.. ran great... i put the kentics stage one kit on... i know what i'm doing.. and it misses.. i've done everything to track down this problem.. and it still does it.. i'm not the only one, that is having the same issue, i've done plugs, wires, coil pack, and maf... i know the kit runs rich.. i have run out of things to check.. i know people that a have great luck with the stage 2 stuff . . . i'm at a loss . . .









im with you buddy. i know what im doing and no luck, im taking it to bugformance on tuesday and they are gunna tell me if it is the software or not. my first chip made my car run on 2 cylinders kinetic said there was no way it was the chip i sent it back anyways and the chip was the problem. so for all you ppl saying it is user error always are full of ****. just cause your software was good does not mean that everyones is gunna be good.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

Its software man. And you've been through 2 chips.
Face it, there is something else wrong.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Its software man. And you've been through 2 chips.
Face it, there is something else wrong.

thats all fine and dandy, but the first chip was bad, and my point here is that the first time the said it wasnt the chip, and now again. im all for it being sommething else but what the hell could it be? i have replaced everything...


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

getting the wrong software on a chip does not mean the 'software' is bad. 
The program works- this is known, if they gave you the wrong thing- that is another issue...


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## xanthus (Feb 23, 2005)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

When is it missfiring? All the time? When boost comes on? Specific RPM? When you slam it WOT?
I'm running BKr6e's in my VR and I get an occasional stumble.
Put your OEM chip back in and run low boost, see if it still missfires and idles lie crap.
It's easy to point fingers, but your flying blind until you get diags with Vagcom. It was the very first tool I purchased for my car.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (xanthus)*

it misfires in boost. it will occasionaly misfire off the line and it idles a little rough. it runs fine on the freeway though as long as i stay out of boost. that is a good idea about the stock chip except it will run like poop with the 42# injectors and a stock chip


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_it misfires in boost. it will occasionaly misfire off the line and it idles a little rough. it runs fine on the freeway though as long as i stay out of boost. that is a good idea about the stock chip except it will run like poop with the 42# injectors and a stock chip

It's been said 10 times above this post, but it's elsewhere. Bad coil? Bad MAF? Did you damage the ecu? Bad wire? etc etc etc


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

maf was carrefully taken care of and cleaned after i was finding problems. i dont see how i could have damaged the ecu. the coil was sprayed to look for arcing and there was none.


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

get a vag-com - at least borrow one from someone so you can do some logging...


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_maf was carrefully taken care of and cleaned after i was finding problems. i dont see how i could have damaged the ecu. the coil was sprayed to look for arcing and there was none.

We can't fix it for you without any info. Log vagcom, do something. Nobody is going to miraculously throw the solution at you.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
We can't fix it for you without any info. Log vagcom, do something. Nobody is going to miraculously throw the solution at you. 

well i wasz hopin for ideas. hopefully i will get vag in an hour or so


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_well i wasz hopin for ideas. hopefully i will get vag in an hour or so


You've been making posts like this since 12/22. I counted at least 20. We can't help without more info.


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

ok dude, here is the deal. you setup your car to the point where it now needs very precise fueling and spark to run correctly. now to fix misfiring issue there are a huge number of factors that could make this issue happen. how do you expect someone hundreds of miles away to know how your car is running? you have to give them feedback they can actually use, they usually will ask you to do and test certain things. this info is THE ONLY THING THEY HAVE to try to solve your issue.
it is my suspicion that something is not in tune with the ecu (MAF backwards etc, there have been a number of things asked which you have only answere with your opinion, they need facts not what you think the problem is!) or your components are old and maybe not the correct ones for your application. but as i said, there are literall a hundred things that could cause this issue, you need to test what they ask you to test, and replace what they tell you to replace. 
these people designed the software you are using, these are the people you need to be in contact with to fix your car. it is stupid to just make a guess at what you think the issue may be and try and get another company to fix an issue that aparently could be fixed (this is evidant to me by the number of responses from the people at c2 asking for info which you continue to not provide), help them help you man!


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

You've been making posts like this since 12/22. I counted at least 20. We can't help without more info. 
 well thanks for keeping track of me. i dont really know what kind of info you need. no one has really told me except to vag it. i dont exactly know what that means other than plug a vag com in. and the reason for the posts is because it would be nice to get my car running again. since i have been without my car for over a month now


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_ well thanks for keeping track of me. i dont really know what kind of info you need. no one has really told me except to vag it. i dont exactly know what that means other than plug a vag com in. and the reason for the posts is because it would be nice to get my car running again. since i have been without my car for over a month now

1. Scan for Codes, post output here
2. Go to Engine -> Measuring Blocks -> load up 001 & 032 (this will tell us fuel) and log it to a file.. drive around in boost where its misfiring so we have data to look at.. do same thing with 001 & 020 (this will tell us timing) and post the logs here.
If you ask Jeff he will tell you if there is anything else to be looking at..
You can also diagnose a bad MAF/02 and many other things with a VAG-COM if you search around the forums. Familarise your self with VAG-COM usage, your going to need it.
Another thing Jeff suggested to help my idle was to max out the Idle Torque Additive using Lemminwinks.. dont think that is going to help your misfiring issue but it will probably idle better, I also had to raise my idle to around 700rpm with the same software



_Modified by dreadlocks at 7:54 PM 1-28-2007_


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_ well thanks for keeping track of me. i dont really know what kind of info you need. no one has really told me except to vag it. i dont exactly know what that means other than plug a vag com in. and the reason for the posts is because it would be nice to get my car running again. since i have been without my car for over a month now

If you can't fix it, take it to a shop that can. Honestly, getting an attitude with the only people you are willing to let help you isn't the solution. Learning how the car's electronics work should be done before slapping on a turbo kit. You need to go through everything again, from vacuum leaks to sensor connections.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

16515
17633
17634
17635
17636
17908
16519
oh and some misfire codes in all cylinders
i never erased my codes either after i swapped in a new o2

_Modified by vee_rub at 7:05 PM 1-28-2007_


_Modified by vee_rub at 7:27 PM 1-28-2007_


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

i'm in the same boat.. .. .. i feel your pain.. 
i need to get a vag com.. and start to track down what is causing the miss.. mines a little differnt..
i've never had a problem with my coil pack, wires or maf... and i install the kit and its not the kit or software.. it everything but that.. i think its funny.. 
i'm going to find out whats wrong. . so i can save other people the headace...


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dreadlocks* »_
1. Scan for Codes, post output here
2. Go to Engine -> Measuring Blocks -> load up 001 & 032 (this will tell us fuel) and log it to a file.. drive around in boost where its misfiring so we have data to look at.. do same thing with 001 & 020 (this will tell us timing) and post the logs here.
If you ask Jeff he will tell you if there is anything else to be looking at..
You can also diagnose a bad MAF/02 and many other things with a VAG-COM if you search around the forums. Familarise your self with VAG-COM usage, your going to need it.
Another thing Jeff suggested to help my idle was to max out the Idle Torque Additive using Lemminwinks.. dont think that is going to help your misfiring issue but it will probably idle better, I also had to raise my idle to around 700rpm with the same software
_Modified by dreadlocks at 7:54 PM 1-28-2007_

are those measuring blocks for mk3 obd2 cause 020 didnt look like timing.


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## herbehop (May 4, 2004)

For the lazy...
16515: O2 Sensor Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 Low Voltage
17633: cyl. 1 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17634: cyl 2 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17635: cyl 3 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17636: cyl 4 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17908: Fuel Pump Relay Circ. Electrical Malfunction
16519: O2 Sensor Heater Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 Malfunction



_Modified by herbehop at 10:04 PM 1-28-2007_


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_For the lazy...
16515: O2 Sensor Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 Low Voltage
17633: cyl. 1 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17634: cyl 2 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17635: cyl 3 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17636: cyl 4 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17908: Fuel Pump Relay Circ. Electrical Malfunction
16519: O2 Sensor Heater Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 Malfunction

_Modified by herbehop at 10:04 PM 1-28-2007_

thank you sir for typing that out for me


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

16515 02 senser cric,.bank 1-senser1 low voltage
17633 cly.1fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17634cly.2fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17635cly.3fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17636cly.4fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17908 fuel pump relay circ. electrical malfunction
16519o2 sensor heater cric., bank1 sensor1 mailfunction


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: (fastrabbit)*

damn beat to the punch


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (herbehop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *herbehop* »_For the lazy...
16515: O2 Sensor Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 Low Voltage
17633: cyl. 1 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17634: cyl 2 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17635: cyl 3 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17636: cyl 4 Fuel Inj.Circ. Short to Ground
17908: Fuel Pump Relay Circ. Electrical Malfunction
16519: O2 Sensor Heater Circ.,Bank1-Sensor1 Malfunction

_Modified by herbehop at 10:04 PM 1-28-2007_

So... your injector wiring is fubared somewhere, which would... not be the chip. Now you have somewhere to start.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
So... your injector wiring is fubared somewhere, which would... not be the chip. Now you have somewhere to start. 

my problem with that is i didnt mess with the injector wiring other than un plugging the old and plugging in the new. i went back numerous times and made sure all the connections were secure so i dont know where else the problem could be


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

all sorts of codes.....It could be bad grounds.....computers hate that.....especialy stand alones.....if you think a chiped stocker is tough..give that a shot.
You have electrical gremlins


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_my problem with that is i didnt mess with the injector wiring other than un plugging the old and plugging in the new. i went back numerous times and made sure all the connections were secure so i dont know where else the problem could be

broken ground. probably bumped during the turbo install.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
broken ground. probably bumped during the turbo install. 

thats what i'm thinking


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
thats what i'm thinking









where would some grounds be in the region. i checked the main ground and it was secure


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_where would some grounds be in the region. i checked the main ground and it was secure

good lord, check everything.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
broken ground. probably bumped during the turbo install. 

x2
did you install an inline fuel pump?
You have a short somewhere in your fuel electronics that is the source of all these problems


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## the_q_jet (Mar 19, 2005)

check where you plug wires run...if they cross any injector wires/looms then the interference can cause a problem....trace the injector look look for a branch off of some sort that bolts to part of the chassis/motor...injectors are sometimes grounded this way....you're having a relay problem...make sure that is is secure and there is no frayed wire where you tapped into touching or grounding out...


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## vr604 (Feb 19, 2003)

*Re: (fastrabbit)*

16515 02 senser cric,.bank 1-senser1 low voltage
17633 cly.1fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17634cly.2fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17635cly.3fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17636cly.4fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17908 fuel pump relay circ. electrical malfunction
16519o2 sensor heater cric., bank1 sensor1 mailfunction

This looks like a fuel pump relay problem, the o2 gets powered by the relay. Pull the fuel pump relay, take the black cover off of it and inspect it, sometimes the soldiers can get cracks around the terminals on the circuit board. 
Usually happens when it gets hot, then soldier connection will open up at the crack and cause voltage issues. You may need to use a magnafine glass to see it. Or you could just put a new one in. Worth a shot...


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (vr604)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vr604* »_16515 02 senser cric,.bank 1-senser1 low voltage
17633 cly.1fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17634cly.2fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17635cly.3fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17636cly.4fuel inj. cric. short to ground
17908 fuel pump relay circ. electrical malfunction
16519o2 sensor heater cric., bank1 sensor1 mailfunction

This looks like a fuel pump relay problem, the o2 gets powered by the relay. Pull the fuel pump relay, take the black cover off of it and inspect it, sometimes the soldiers can get cracks around the terminals on the circuit board. 
Usually happens when it gets hot, then soldier connection will open up at the crack and cause voltage issues. You may need to use a magnafine glass to see it. Or you could just put a new one in. Worth a shot...

Good idea...Cold or cracked solder joints are the main reason for electronic failure...Ask any TV repair person...it is what the problem is 90 percent of the time.
Another question is your battery in the stock location...or did you move it? When moving a battery grounds become more of an issue.
Barring that remove the battery and clean all the chasis grounds in the area and the ones to the engine....ALso check the main ground under the dash ..the crazy circle of grounds above the fuse box atached to th edash support.
Bust out the bently and check all the darn grounds.
No grounds = no electrical flow...and an unhappy you


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

also you should not need an inline pump for this....as I'm running 15 psi on it at the moment....I need to get my trans back in the car








And snow sucks........But going to Florida on thursday








SHould be living there before the end of the year.
Keep us posted on your proreess or lack there of..and I will try to help.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_also you should not need an inline pump for this....as I'm running 15 psi on it at the moment....I need to get my trans back in the car








And snow sucks........But going to Florida on thursday








SHould be living there before the end of the year.
Keep us posted on your proreess or lack there of..and I will try to help.

thank you, i am going to check over the grounds and replace the re3lay today. the reason i asked about the general region of the grounds is not cause im an idiot but rather cause i have already checked my grounds last ime i scanned it and gotthese codes.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

clear all the codes after you saved them to a text file.. see what comes back


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## Zupek (May 10, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

well most poeple dont really check the grounds, when they claimed they have. VW's are known for having a million different bad grounding issues and people are known for being lazy. Don't take it personal, but if i was @ the point of business providing a very technical thing(F/I Chip) I wouldn't count people doing what they actually said they did. 
For instance customer might think checking the grounds underneath the stock battery location is "checking the grounds". 
However, the host/business might think that is requires checking the dash support, under the battery terminal, the ground @ the ecu, the ground on the upper timing chain cover, etc etc...
Now that you are Turbo'ed every little thing makes a huge difference. If the misfire continue's i would do a leak down test(i dont think the misfire is going to continue)


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

i realized the fuel pump relay code must have been from when i pulled the relay and tuned the car over to drain the lines to install the new filter. i neverf tapped and wires so i dont think the solder points will be an issue. i looked over all the grounds i could find and they all looked and felt good to me


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## Maverik869 (Jan 3, 2003)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

did you check your coolant temp sensor?
my was bad and i had to change it ... problem fixed....
JEFF ATWOOD... Thanx for making my car pass Emissions running 16psi daily!!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_i realized the fuel pump relay code must have been from when i pulled the relay and tuned the car over to drain the lines to install the new filter. i neverf tapped and wires so i dont think the solder points will be an issue. i looked over all the grounds i could find and they all looked and felt good to me

No un do them Clean them to bare metal with sand paper or air powers scotch brite or other method...reinstall and spray with pattery terminal protectant spray...
Clear codes and try again


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Maverik869)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Maverik869* »_did you check your coolant temp sensor?
my was bad and i had to change it ... problem fixed....
JEFF ATWOOD... Thanx for making my car pass Emissions running 16psi daily!!!!







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
















i unplugged it to no avail


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## fast_a2_20v (Jun 25, 2004)

um, yea, unplugging it isn't going to make things better then a broken one. lol


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (fast_a2_20v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fast_a2_20v* »_um, yea, unplugging it isn't going to make things better then a broken one. lol


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## [email protected] (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

I hate to point this out.. but SHORT to ground means an easy path to ground. IE: not a ground wire missing. If it were OPEN to ground then the ground wire would be missing. If your injectors are shorting then they are being held open and your running super rich.
What you need to do is go back through your wiring harness and massage the wires with your fingers. I find this helps to move frayed insulation away from other wires. Your problem is that somewhere in the wiring harness the injectors are getting shorted open before they get to the ECU.
Example. My wiring on my car looks great. Except randomly it'll pop my fog light fuse, pop the 10amp fuse for the ECU, and SHORT out the crank trigger wire. Just take and massage it and replace the fuses and i'm good for another 5k miles.


_Modified by [email protected] at 12:16 AM 1-30-2007_


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_I hate to point this out.. but SHORT to ground means an easy path to ground. IE: not a ground wire missing. If it were OPEN to ground then the ground wire would be missing. If your injectors are shorting then they are being held open and your running super rich.
What you need to do is go back through your wiring harness and massage the wires with your fingers. I find this helps to move frayed insulation away from other wires. Your problem is that somewhere in the wiring harness the injectors are getting shorted open before they get to the ECU.
Example. My wiring on my car looks great. Except randomly it'll pop my fog light fuse, pop the 10amp fuse for the ECU, and SHORT out the crank trigger wire. Just take and massage it and replace the fuses and i'm good for another 5k miles.

_Modified by [email protected] at 12:16 AM 1-30-2007_

that makes sense now cause i was thinking if there was a missing or broken ground first of all it wouldnt squirt fuel and if it did it would run lean not rich. there is alot of wire though from those injectors


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

I realize what short to ground means..silly
You have one and can not find it.
He has many strange codes that apeared after the turbo install.
And missing or loose grounds vause low voltage to sensors and injectors.
If it had a short to ground in the injector harness it would not run at all not cause random misfires.
Not to be i dik but.......if you cannot diag. running problems and fix electrical gremlins and read the darn wiring diagram......Do not modify your own car. 
Period
And a note to all you would be "Tuners" and "Installers" that use crimp conections and god forbid scotch locks on any car wiring......you are opening yourself up to all the Electrical Evil in the known universe......And should be shot in the face.
Now Back to the original post....After cleaning all grounds and clearing codes..
a few questions to refresh my old ass brain
1 - you are using a VR6 Maf housing Correct? In case any body wnats to know MK3 vr6 maf sensors are the same as 2.0 ones...just the housing is larger on a vr6 About 2 7/8ths ID ....Using the 2.0 maf housing causes it to bu pig rich across the board.
Yeas I have data logged both and a custom 3 inch one I made from stainless.......larger is leaner








2 - you are using a Stock 2.0 fuel pressure regulator?
If you installed a different one like a 3 bar from a VR thats your rich problem.
..re drive and retieve codes
Post back ..I'll be glad to help find the problem
Oh and record data logs with a vag com like posted before.
Log into the mentioned blocks and hit record log on the vag com screen...drive car and reproduce the problem in differnet gears under different loads. save data, and post it up or E mail it to Jeff Then we can find your problem and you can be happy with your Turbo 2.0.....Like Me








Dave


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## Doolie (Jun 7, 2003)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

Can you imagine if you didn't get a VAG-COM and got another chip to end up still having this issue? This is definitely a ground issue that is tapping out with high vibration as your rpm climbs. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif For the people on here who pushed you to get the tools/info you need.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_I realize what short to ground means..silly
You have one and can not find it.
He has many strange codes that apeared after the turbo install.
And missing or loose grounds vause low voltage to sensors and injectors.
If it had a short to ground in the injector harness it would not run at all not cause random misfires.
Not to be i dik but.......if you cannot diag. running problems and fix electrical gremlins and read the darn wiring diagram......Do not modify your own car. 
Period
And a note to all you would be "Tuners" and "Installers" that use crimp conections and god forbid scotch locks on any car wiring......you are opening yourself up to all the Electrical Evil in the known universe......And should be shot in the face.
Now Back to the original post....After cleaning all grounds and clearing codes..
a few questions to refresh my old ass brain
1 - you are using a VR6 Maf housing Correct? In case any body wnats to know MK3 vr6 maf sensors are the same as 2.0 ones...just the housing is larger on a vr6 About 2 7/8ths ID ....Using the 2.0 maf housing causes it to bu pig rich across the board.
Yeas I have data logged both and a custom 3 inch one I made from stainless.......larger is leaner








2 - you are using a Stock 2.0 fuel pressure regulator?
If you installed a different one like a 3 bar from a VR thats your rich problem.
..re drive and retieve codes
Post back ..I'll be glad to help find the problem
Oh and record data logs with a vag com like posted before.
Log into the mentioned blocks and hit record log on the vag com screen...drive car and reproduce the problem in differnet gears under different loads. save data, and post it up or E mail it to Jeff Then we can find your problem and you can be happy with your Turbo 2.0.....Like Me








Dave

the maf housing is the aluminum one that comes with the kinetic kit. it is the same size as the vr6. i have not used an electrical connections what so ever and didnot even mess with the electrical. the fpr is the stock one. i dont know what crimp connections are or scotch locks. im not nan electician but a contractor and when building houses we use wire nuts and electrical tape. connections may be diffedrent in a car i guess but anyways i have made no splices or connections of any kind. as for the vibrations cqausing the short at higher rpms i doubt that since im not reaching higher rpms. i will try to get the logs tonight.


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

so were not hunting windmills, after you cleared your codes what ones came back?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

Sorry for the electrical rant....it's one of my things.....Any new news on the car?
Good or bad?


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_I realize what short to ground means..silly
You have one and can not find it.
He has many strange codes that apeared after the turbo install.
And missing or loose grounds vause low voltage to sensors and injectors.
If it had a short to ground in the injector harness it would not run at all not cause random misfires.
Not to be i dik but.......if you cannot diag. running problems and fix electrical gremlins and read the darn wiring diagram......Do not modify your own car. 
Period
And a note to all you would be "Tuners" and "Installers" that use crimp conections and god forbid scotch locks on any car wiring......you are opening yourself up to all the Electrical Evil in the known universe......And should be shot in the face.
Now Back to the original post....After cleaning all grounds and clearing codes..
a few questions to refresh my old ass brain
1 - you are using a VR6 Maf housing Correct? In case any body wnats to know MK3 vr6 maf sensors are the same as 2.0 ones...just the housing is larger on a vr6 About 2 7/8ths ID ....Using the 2.0 maf housing causes it to bu pig rich across the board.
Yeas I have data logged both and a custom 3 inch one I made from stainless.......larger is leaner








2 - you are using a Stock 2.0 fuel pressure regulator?
If you installed a different one like a 3 bar from a VR thats your rich problem.
..re drive and retieve codes
Post back ..I'll be glad to help find the problem
Oh and record data logs with a vag com like posted before.
Log into the mentioned blocks and hit record log on the vag com screen...drive car and reproduce the problem in differnet gears under different loads. save data, and post it up or E mail it to Jeff Then we can find your problem and you can be happy with your Turbo 2.0.....Like Me








Dave

the maf housing is the aluminum one that comes with the kinetic kit. it is the same size as the vr6. i have not used an electrical connections what so ever and didnot even mess with the electrical. the fpr is the stock one. i dont know what crimp connections are or scotch locks. im not nan electician but a contractor and when building houses we use wire nuts and electrical tape. connections may be diffedrent in a car i guess but anyways i have made no splices or connections of any kind. as for the vibrations cqausing the short at higher rpms i doubt that since im not reaching higher rpms.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dreadlocks* »_so were not hunting windmills, after you cleared your codes what ones came back?
only fuel injector codes and misfire codes


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## [email protected] (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_
And a note to all you would be "Tuners" and "Installers" that use crimp conections and god forbid scotch locks on any car wiring......you are opening yourself up to all the Electrical Evil in the known universe......And should be shot in the face.
Dave

Crimp connectors are 100% reliable if you crimp them correctly. Buy good connectors and read the instructions, use a crimping tool. I have NEVER had a problem with crimp connectors... your results may vary.
About the open/short thing, it bugs me when people use the term incorrectly. "Oh my flashlight isn't working, it must have a short.." No.

By the way, I'd try replacing your fuel pump relay for ****s and giggles.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_only fuel injector codes and misfire codes

The fuel injector issue causes the misfire codes....
i.e. fix the fuel injector short issue and you will likely see the misfires go away.
realize how inj. ~work. 
they have 12v supllied them all the time (when ignition is on)
they only open when the ecu connects the control wire to ground, this gives the current some place to go thus the inj. opens.
your issue is that the injector control wires are touching ground
somewhere between the injector and the ecu, this opens all the inj.
open inj. = dumps a lot of fuel
too fuel = misfires
The ecu know this becuase it should see 12v on the control wires, but it sees 0v when it expects the inj. to be off.

THOROGHLY inspect ALL wriing related to the inj. 
-Jeff


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## dreadlocks (May 24, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Crimp connectors are 100% reliable if you crimp them correctly. Buy good connectors and read the instructions, use a crimping tool. I have NEVER had a problem with crimp connectors... your results may vary.


Plastic Crimp connectors do not do very well under the hood, anywhere else they might be fine but if you have a stiff suspension then they are still prone to vibrate loose after tens of thousands of miles.. I wouldn't say crimp connectors are 100% reliable, Ive seen properly installed good quality crimps fail but never one that I soldered and used shrink tube on.. Unless your completely inept at soldering there is no point in crimp connectors


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: (dreadlocks)*

i agree to an extent about the crimp connectors. i use the crimp on connectors with the heat shrink on them. they have an adhesive inside which grips the wire as well as the crimp. if the right tool is used and the crimp is solid, it will not fail. i have done one on a scrap piece of wire an yanked the crap out of it, no issues what so ever. there will always be a debate on which is better than the other, but these work great, and take 1/4 of the time. im not at all inept to soldering, its just a pain that id rather not deal with when another acceptable solution is available. but i will agree that the Plastic Crimp connectors have no place in any car i work on/build http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
have seen them withstand long periods of time in water/wet conditions without breaking down so im convinced...
sorry for the off topic rambling. good luck with your issue










_Modified by VWralley at 3:29 PM 2-1-2007_


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (Jefnes3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jefnes3* »_
The fuel injector issue causes the misfire codes....
i.e. fix the fuel injector short issue and you will likely see the misfires go away.
realize how inj. ~work. 
they have 12v supllied them all the time (when ignition is on)
they only open when the ecu connects the control wire to ground, this gives the current some place to go thus the inj. opens.
your issue is that the injector control wires are touching ground
somewhere between the injector and the ecu, this opens all the inj.
open inj. = dumps a lot of fuel
too fuel = misfires
The ecu know this becuase it should see 12v on the control wires, but it sees 0v when it expects the inj. to be off.

THOROGHLY inspect ALL wriing related to the inj. 
-Jeff


i understand that but i truied tracing the wires and all looked good. i need a wiring diagram or something


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

ok well i decided to go back to stock chip and stock injectors and now its better. so i have narrowed it down to CHIP or injectors.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_ok well i decided to go back to stock chip and stock injectors and now its better. so i have narrowed it down to CHIP or injectors. 


your learning curve is flat.


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## Technik Motorsport (Feb 16, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

I read this entire thread for some reason, and I was thinking about my children the whole time.
They chase each other around the house at full speed until they are delirious.
All the while i tell them, slow down someones going to get hurt.
They dont listen, well they hear me but just dont care.
And what always happens?
Someone gets hurt.
Bottom line, you should really take 3 steps back and think about what everyone is saying to you. Most are well versed and just trying to help.
On a side note non weather proof crimps on a vehicle exposed to elements - you play devils advocate.
They are just not for outdoor use.
Riddle:
is your stock chip in an untouched ECU and your FI chip in a different ECU?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (Technik Motorsport)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Technik Motorsport* »_I read this entire thread for some reason, and I was thinking about my children the whole time.
They chase each other around the house at full speed until they are delirious.
All the while i tell them, slow down someones going to get hurt.
They dont listen, well they hear me but just dont care.
And what always happens?
Someone gets hurt.
Bottom line, you should really take 3 steps back and think about what everyone is saying to you. Most are well versed and just trying to help.
On a side note non weather proof crimps on a vehicle exposed to elements - you play devils advocate.
They are just not for outdoor use.
Riddle:
is your stock chip in an untouched ECU and your FI chip in a different ECU?


Good Post http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1.9..16vTurbo (Jan 25, 2004)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_
im with you buddy. i know what im doing and no luck, 

And yet you rent a GENERIC code reader...
With all this time and BS you should have gone here... 
http://www.ross-tech.com and bought this...
http://www.ross-tech.com/products.html
but you know what your doing.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (1.9..16vTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.9..16vTurbo* »_And yet you rent a GENERIC code reader...
With all this time and BS you should have gone here... 
http://www.ross-tech.com and bought this...
http://www.ross-tech.com/products.html
but you know what your doing.


nobody is getting through to him, just give up.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (1.9..16vTurbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.9..16vTurbo* »_
And yet you rent a GENERIC code reader...
With all this time and BS you should have gone here... 
http://www.ross-tech.com and bought this...
http://www.ross-tech.com/products.html
but you know what your doing.


Correct...If you own a VW...own the tool..And .Buy and learn the Bently
Then learn to use them together.....aand Be happy...then help others


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

nobody is getting through to him, just give up. 

That's no fun


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## fastrabbit (Jan 17, 2002)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*

what kind of injectors... do the kits come with?.... mine vr6 kit had some no name hill billy ones?.. i heard that they used to come with bosch? ones


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: (fastrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fastrabbit* »_what kind of injectors... do the kits come with?.... mine vr6 kit had some no name hill billy ones?.. i heard that they used to come with bosch? ones

they come w/ nice bosch ones.... or at least mine did. He probably had a problem with the injector harness or ECU harness that was corrected when he switched back to stock. 
Or he found his problem and doesn't want to admit defeat








Once you have working injectors, clear the codes, buy a bentley manual, and buy a scan tool... make sure you gapped the plugs down too.
-m


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

ok so the proff of putting in the new chip and injectors means nothing to all of you? it really must be a short... i rented a generic scanner cause thats all i could afford at the time. the injectors are green top. im pretty much all done with this thread because so far noone has helped and all keep saying im dumb so... thanks for nothing


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## WickedGTi (Dec 21, 2000)

*Re: (maxslug)*

I have been with Jeff since just about the very begining of his chip making. I have been running that softwear for well longer then I truely know. If the cars runs alittle rough, I always find it to be something else. Vac leak, plugs got hot and the gap opened up, blew a coupler, soemthing never has been the softwear.


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

nobody is getting through to him, just give up.


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## DieGTi (Jun 19, 2001)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

The (+) circuit for the fuel injectors is common with your evap valve, cts, knock sensors and maf I believe (no bentley so I'm workin from memory). I've run into these codes with someone that removed their evap valve and when the harness connector got wet it misfired. It would be really odd to have 6 bad injectors. I don't think a bad chip is entirely out of the question at this point especially if the codes go away with the stock chip installed. *A stock chip won't fix engine wiring.*


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (DieGTi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DieGTi* »_The (+) circuit for the fuel injectors is common with your evap valve, cts, knock sensors and maf I believe (no bentley so I'm workin from memory). I've run into these codes with someone that removed their evap valve and when the harness connector got wet it misfired. It would be really odd to have 6 bad injectors. I don't think a bad chip is entirely out of the question at this point especially if the codes go away with the stock chip installed. *A stock chip won't fix engine wiring.*
thank you. finally som eone who can actually listen to the voice of reason. i understand where evefryone is coming from but the fact that the stock chip solved the issue seems it definatlly points to software problem. vacuum is at 20 at idle. which seems well. couplers are all tight.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_thank you. finally som eone who can actually listen to the voice of reason. 


the irony here is just stunning.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_

the irony here is just stunning.

the funny thing is you have made the most posts in this thread other than me yet you haVe helped the least. it seems to me, you enjoy putting people down more than you enjoy helping them. it is ppl like you that make this planet such a great place. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: (vee_rub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vee_rub* »_
the funny thing is you have made the most posts in this thread other than me yet you haVe helped the least. it seems to me, you enjoy putting people down more than you enjoy helping them. it is ppl like you that make this planet such a great place. thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


I've tried to help you, but you don't want to listen. Some of the most knowledgeable people on this website have posted in this thread, yet you choose to ignore their advice. 
Nobody here can accurately diagnose your problem without being able to get their hands on your car. You need to throw in the towel and take it somewhere that is capable of diagnosing and fixing it. 


_Modified by cabzilla at 5:00 PM 2-4-2007_


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

well you were all right. it was not the chip causing the misfires but it is the chip causing the high revs at a stop light. the cause of the misfire was a bad distributor cap which threw me for a loop since i had just replaced it at the install. i am perfectly capable of solving car issues. all it takes is a little knowledge of an internal combustion engine and the right tools. i will give that it was not the chip but with the codes i gave you all i guess you all did give the right info. i just knew it couldnt be the injector wiring. thank you all for the help im much happier now that my car runs like a beast. now if i could just solve the high rpms at a stop light problem


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## JETTSET (Oct 16, 2001)

*Re: (cabzilla)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cabzilla* »_
Nobody here can accurately diagnose your problem without being able to get their hands on your car. You need to throw in the towel and take it somewhere that is capable of diagnosing and fixing it. 

_Modified by cabzilla at 5:00 PM 2-4-2007_

Ding Ding Ding..........we have a winner http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oops, looks like we found a bad distributor cap. I wonder what other maintenance parts are defective or worn out.


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## vee_rub (May 18, 2006)

*Re: (JETTSET)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JETTSET* »_
Ding Ding Ding..........we have a winner http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Oops, looks like we found a bad distributor cap. I wonder what other maintenance parts are defective or worn out.








 all maintenance parts were replaced at turbo install. it is hard to tell if a part is defective but i think i have all the kinks pretty much worked out.


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## Cgarcia (Apr 4, 2004)

*Re: (vee_rub)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Now how about some pics!


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