# 2012 2.5L Passat oil & filter



## jimsjetta (Jun 9, 2001)

I just changed to Castrol 0W-30 last weekend with a Napa gold filter. I called the VW place today for a different topic and decided to talk to the parts guy also--he didn't know much.

I asked him what oil they sell for this car and he said Pennzoil 5w-30 full synthetic. He didn't know about the rating. Before I drive 25 miles away to check it out, maybe someone here knows--is this the correct oil? I know about the 5W-40. Also, he said it was $6.50/qt. That sounds way too cheap!

He said the filter was $14. Heck, the Napa filter was $17.

Thanks,
Jim


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

Do you intend to do 10k intervals? If so, you can use any synth that suits your climate.

If you want to do 5-6k, you can use dino oil. Just leave the filter in place and drain the oil.

For summer, if you take dealer 5w-40 (which is what they use in bulk), you can just swap out the oil for winter with a 5w-30, or 10w-30 depending on climate.


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## jimsjetta (Jun 9, 2001)

Thanks Apexxx. I was looking at some oils' tech sheets last night and the Castrol 0W-30 I just put in has a better visc at 40 & 100°C than other VW 502.00 spec oils--I should specify that the visc is better for the cooler weather. Here in Houston, the weather never gets cold.

I never took my other VWs in to any shop in the 11.5 years I owned them and I decided to forgo the free maintenance program for the new Passat. After talking with the parts guy yesterday, they are just clueless. Some things will never change I guess.

Now, where can I get OEM filters online? I have all the websites bookmarked for parts for my TDI but I don't have any info yet on the gasser.

Thanks,
Jim


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

I just buy at the dealership, it's so close I can see the place from my window.

German Syntec is a thick 30 that doesn't shear, similar overall to M1 0w-40, a thin 40 that does shear down to a 30 weight. What makes it a VW 502 or "ACEA A3" oil is not the visc, but the HT/HS value being >3.5cP. The borderline of 30 and 40 weights around 13cSt allows the best 30 weight oil formulas to make the 3.5cP at +150c, a spec that normally needs a 40 (5w-40) to meet.

Thick 30 weights (ACEA A3) a fine way to go, and in your climate, 10w-30 is great all year.

So, I'd try a 10w-30 HD oil like Rotella SemiSyn, you may find the Chevron equivalent in your area. Other thick 30s include the killer M1 High Miles 10w-30 and MaxLife synth...also BMW Castrol 5w-30 is an excellent oil, not expensive mail-order either.










If you want to skip the thick 30s for a "normal" 30 weight (HT/HS 2.9cP), I have no problem with that, opening the door to dino 30s and the A5 synthetic jug oils. Best mpg will come that way. Pick a brand and go for it. I ran Edge 5w-30 in my APR 2.0 TSI last winter, had the used oil tested at CAT afterwards for $13, and it did a great job.









Don't let people tell you that:

You need VW 502 oil, that you need 5w-40 (A3), that 10k intervals are "good" or somehow better than 5k intervals (even w/dino oil!), that you can't use dino, that you can't use any WalMart oil, that you can't use non OE filter, that you can't reuse filters...it never ends. :banghead:

It's a simple transaction to see how 2 changes of dino at 5k is better than a single change of synth at 10k. There's simply no substitute for physically draining out contaminates (water and excess fuel). Fresh friction modifiers in new oil, even dino oil are quite noticeable too.

99.999% of the cars on the road run on nothing but dino oil, with engine wear being the LEAST of their problems. Synth is only needed for extended changes, or turbo apps. I'm worked on plenty of high miles engines that were perfectly clean inside.


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## jimsjetta (Jun 9, 2001)

Thanks again Apexxx. I appreciate the infp!

Jim


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

See, even the 5w-30 has a high HT/HS of 3.3, 2.9 is minimum for a 30 weight.


http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/oils/mobil_1_high_mileage_10w-30.aspx

Typical Properties

5W-30	10W-30 10W-40 
SAE Grade 
Viscosity (ASTM D445) 
cSt @ 40 ºC	69.2	78.1	95.9
cSt @ 100 ºC	11.7	12	14.71
Viscosity Index	165	149	160
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150 ºC (ASTM D4683)	3.3	3.5	3.9
Pour Point, ºC, (ASTM D97)	-39	-37	-33

Mobil 1 High Mileage oils meet or exceed the requirements of:	
5W-30 10W-30 10W-40
ACEA	A1/B1,A5/B5	A3/B3,A3/B4	A3/B3,A3/B4
API	SL	SL	SN, SM, SL


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*say what*



Apexxx said:


> See, even the 5w-30 has a high HT/HS of 3.3, 2.9 is minimum for a 30 weight.
> 
> 
> http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/oils/mobil_1_high_mileage_10w-30.aspx
> ...


different wts of m1 hi miles meet different specs, not all as you imply.


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## Scum Frog (May 30, 2011)

Suggestions include:

Castrol Syntec 0W-30 (A.K.A. German Castrol)
Mobil 1 0W-40
Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5W-40


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

Apexxx said:


> See, even the 5w-30 has a high HT/HS of 3.3, 2.9 is minimum for a 30 weight.
> 
> 
> http://www.mobiloil.com/usa-english/motoroil/oils/mobil_1_high_mileage_10w-30.aspx
> ...


M1 HM 5w30 does not meet the required minimum HTHS of 3.5 which is specified in the VW specifications.

You can get A3/B4 as well as VW502.00 oil that is not 5w40 or even a 0w40:
German Castrol 0w30
Total Quartz Energy 9000 0w30
Total Quartz Ineo MC3 5w30
Fuchs Titan GT1 5w30
Liqui Moly Syntholl Longtime 0w30
Pennzoil Platinum Euro Formula Ultra Diesel 5w30
Quaker State Q Euro Formula 5w30


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

PS

You can buy oil filter cartridges cheaper from one of the dealerships that advertises on this site, ie

[email protected]
[email protected]
etc


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

BsickPassat said:


> M1 HM 5w30 does not meet the required minimum HTHS of 3.5 which is specified in the VW specifications.


So what?

It's 3.3cP anyway, pretty high for a 30 weight.


.2cP, ooo I'll take my chances.


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*way smarter*



Apexxx said:


> So what?
> 
> It's 3.3cP anyway, pretty high for a 30 weight.
> 
> ...


NOT! you don't know what you don't know. there is a number for everything but you ZERO!


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## jimsjetta (Jun 9, 2001)

Thanks scum frog and BsickPassat. I'm using the Castrol 0w-30 and I'll check out the VW dealers on this site for the filters.

Jim


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

jimsjetta said:


> Thanks scum frog and BsickPassat. I'm using the Castrol 0w-30 and I'll check out the VW dealers on this site for the filters.
> 
> Jim


Advanced Auto Parts, if there is a store near you, they should have a sale right now, 5 quarts of Mobil 1 Euro Formula 5w40 + Mobil 1 oil filter for $33.

yes, there is a Mobil 1 oil filter cartridge, iirc, M1C-451 (that by itself, costs $20)


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## Apexxx (Nov 10, 2011)

:facepalm:


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## gmikel (Nov 10, 2010)

*you should hide your face*



Apexxx said:


> :facepalm:


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## jimsjetta (Jun 9, 2001)

The Advance Auto stores I checked around here, north of Houston, don't carry the Mobil1 Euro oil. I was surprised to see the Castrol 0w-30.

From Advance Auto, I bought the 5 qts of Castrol 0w-30 and a Bosch filter for $31. The extra 2 qts were 25% off! I will use the Bosch filter on my '93 Cummins. In fact the deal was so good I bought a second batch. 

I check their flier every week to see when the Castrol 5w-40 is on sale. Their oil change deal is excellent!! Come to think of it, I always buy my Mobil 1 Truck & SUV 5w-40 from wally world for our older TDIs. I'll check the Advance stores for a sale on this oil as well.

Thanks for your info,
Jim


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

jimsjetta said:


> The Advance Auto stores I checked around here, north of Houston, don't carry the Mobil1 Euro oil. I was surprised to see the Castrol 0w-30.
> 
> From Advance Auto, I bought the 5 qts of Castrol 0w-30 and a Bosch filter for $31. The extra 2 qts were 25% off! I will use the Bosch filter on my '93 Cummins. In fact the deal was so good I bought a second batch.
> 
> ...


mobil 1 turbo diesel truck is better for old tdi's

shell rotella t6 is good also on the older TDI's (and I use it on my 2.0t)


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## jimsjetta (Jun 9, 2001)

Boy, I'm still back in the old days--it's called Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 these days.

I use the T6 for the cummins.

Side note: I'm shaking like a leaf now.....my wife has the 90 day inspection at the dealership today. I have NEVER taken my cars into any shop. I'm not going to do the free maintenance for the first 3 years----I don't like the idea of others working on the car.

Jim


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## [email protected] (Feb 24, 2003)

*Oil Quantity?*

Found a nice oil and oil and filter kit online, but it lists the passat as needing 6 quarts of oil. This seems high to me as I'm used to the 4 cylinder where 5 quarts was more than enough.

http://www.oilchangekits.com/automobiles/volkswagen/passat-25-2012-oil-change-kit.html


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

cdetdi said:


> Found a nice oil and oil and filter kit online, but it lists the passat as needing 6 quarts of oil. This seems high to me as I'm used to the 4 cylinder where 5 quarts was more than enough.
> 
> http://www.oilchangekits.com/automobiles/volkswagen/passat-25-2012-oil-change-kit.html


Yeah, 2.5 needs a little bit more oil, it is 5 cyl engine. 
I think even VW is not clear how much oil needs.
In my CC manual it says 4.5 quarts and it takes exactly 5 quarts!


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## BrutalDictator (Jun 28, 2012)

It takes 5q, thus making the W*M jugs ideal. 

Again, I'll state the case that non-turbos can use plain oil for 5000miles, NO PROBLEM. In fact, it's a better plan than just 10k changes of any synth oil.


So, if you want synth, you can use any 10w-30. If you want a thick 30 synth, M1 High Miles 10w-30, German Syntec 0w-30 and BMW Castrol 5w-30....all are way overkill for 5000mi changes. You can do 10k on them, if that's your goal, but 5k on dino is better.

Frankly, Shell Rotella 10w-30 T5 semisyn would be the best single lube you could use, and it is cheap, like $12/4q.










http://www.shell.com/home/content/rotella/products/t5/

We have better and cheaper oils than Europe.


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## edyvw (May 1, 2009)

jimsjetta said:


> Boy, I'm still back in the old days--it's called Turbo Diesel Truck 5w-40 these days.
> 
> I use the T6 for the cummins.
> 
> ...


I understand you. I had conversation with people at dealership here in Montgomery, AL. They do not have any clue at all.
Worst thing. I bought 4 Dunlop tires on Tire Rack some 3 yrs ago for my Passat B5. Went to dealership to install. They did it, but: all idea taking to dealership was: they will do allingment (they did) and they know pressure etc. Well, instead pumping tires to 35/44 PSI they pumped to 15PSi all 4!
After that, I do tires in Costco, you never have to tell them pressure etc.


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## BrutalDictator (Jun 28, 2012)

Those big old brass air gauges on the air hose really suck.


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## comarine1371 (Mar 19, 2013)

*Is Mobil 1 OW-40 good to use with the 2.5L?*

We just bought a new 2013 Passat with the 2.5L, it doesn't get nearly as good of mileage as my CC does with the 2.0T so I was wondering if Mobil 1 OW-40 is okay to use in the 2.5L in hopes of gaining some gas mileage. The car is still under warranty so I want to make sure I'm not going to void it doing the first oil change at 5k with the M1 OW-40. The dealership wants her to wait til 10k to change it but I've always been told to change a new engine's oil before the usual interval.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

The 2.5L engine has modest power levels and a fairly large sump. So it's not nearly as demanding from a lubrication standpoint. One thing to consider is that the minimum HTHS viscosity required by VW/Audi is for fresh oil. Once the oil is put into service it will tend to thin out a bit due to fuel dilution and thermo-mechanical shearing of the polymeric thickeners. 

For a well characterized material like a multi grade engine oil , a typical design "factor of safety" (F.S.) is usually 1.20. So the actual minimum viscosity before you might run into wear related issues is 3.5/1.20, or 2.9 Centi-poise. Another way of saying this is that the 3.5 Cp, minimum viscosity is not an absolute number - where you'd expect catastrophic engine damage by falling below it.

I'd come down on the side of using a top tier, full synthetic and longer service intervals. Something I've had excellent results with for 35 years. In the specific case of the 2.5L engine, you could also use a conventional engine oil with shortened service intervals. The 10w-30 and 15w-40, commercial engine oils work well in these engines. You can select the proper grade based on the expected ambient temp range for the next service interval.

TS


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

The Mobil 1/0w-40 would be fine for the 2.5L engine. Once it's out of warranty you could go to a slightly thinner synthetic oil, providing its shear stable. The Mobil 1, 0w-30 or 10w-30, would work well here. They're about 15% thinner in terms of high temp, high shear viscosity. So that would yield about a 2%-3% gain in fuel efficiency, all things being equal.

Note that older VW/Audi engines with flat tappet valve trains - where the cam lobes press directly on the tops of the lifters - do tend to show lower wear rates with thicker oils. But most of the engine variants these days have rollerized valve trains. Hence you see some very thin oils being used.

TS


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

DO NOT use Mobil1 0W40 in the 2.5. I tried it and well before the oil change time, the engine sounded like a diesel with all sorts of valve train rattle. Others have reported the same. forget about the 'factor of safety' of 1.2 and other specs that mean nothing to Joe driver.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

The VW 2.5L engine has a relatively large sump. It gets decent fuel efficiency (mid 20's) and generates modest power levels (177 Hp out of 2.5L). Given these parameters any decent, VW 502.00 oil should last for at least 10,000 miles in this application, under most conditions.

Perceptions of engine noise, or lack thereof, are always highly subjective. Running long service intervals in a cold climate tends to promote more fuel dilution. This can certainly cause an engine - particularly one with a fully lubricated timing chain - to become noisier over time. However taking a single data point and extrapolating the results to include all 2.5L engines operating under all conditions is probably a bridge too far.

TS


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## thygreyt (Jun 7, 2009)

For my 2.5 engine, with +100k miles and a turbo, ive been using liqui moly with great success. It meets the 502 requirements, and it yields great results.

Other 2.5 owners are running liqui moly as well with great success as well.

Ymmv.

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

I do not run long oil changes and do not believe in them. i also try and educate all my customers to appreciate the benefits of shorter intervals. My observation on the noise and the reports from many other here on vortex and other forums is the basis of my post. M1 0w40 is not the best for the 2.5. Why recommend an oil that behaves so poorly in an engine when there are so many others that will do much better for a similar price.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

shawng said:


> I do not run long oil changes and do not believe in them. i also try and educate all my customers to appreciate the benefits of shorter intervals. My observation on the noise and the reports from many other here on vortex and other forums is the basis of my post. M1 0w40 is not the best for the 2.5. Why recommend an oil that behaves so poorly in an engine when there are so many others that will do much better for a similar price.


Do you think TDI owners of all types should also do the 5,000 mile oil change?


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## shawng (Jul 28, 2007)

Let's put it this way, the extended OCI of 15K are only good to reduce initial cost of ownership, not engine life. GM just mailed out letters to 800K 4 cyl owners to say they will reprogram the OCI on the dash to lower values. Why, because the engines are failing with long OCI. Mazda and BMW have an issue with VVT components failing from long OCI. Shall I go on? I am not going to say 5k, just because it will cause an argument. You decide what you are comfortable with and go for it.


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

shawng said:


> Let's put it this way, the extended OCI of 15K are only good to reduce initial cost of ownership, not engine life. GM just mailed out letters to 800K 4 cyl owners to say they will reprogram the OCI on the dash to lower values. Why, because the engines are failing with long OCI. Mazda and BMW have an issue with VVT components failing from long OCI. Shall I go on? I am not going to say 5k, just because it will cause an argument. You decide what you are comfortable with and go for it.


my decisions on OCI's are based on doing Virgin Oil Analysis (for the oil I use) and gathering up some trending on UOA's on my engine.


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

A 10,000 mile oil change interval is conservative in the TDI's. The issue with the GM engines is related to a design issue with their direct ignition system, resulting in excessive fuel dilution. The solution is to redesign the engine and/or specify a higher quality engine oil rather than reduce service intervals. I've been running 12k-20k, oil & filter change intervals with Amsoil since 1978 (mainly in VW/Audi engines) and have never come close to wearing out an engine. When I sold my 1990 Audi 100 with 260k miles, it was still only using a quart of oil in 10,000 miles.

TS


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## TooSlick (Feb 17, 2000)

I should add that I do use and highly recommend spectrographic oil analysis to determine reasonable service intervals for a particular application. In the twenty years I've been doing this I am seeing a trend of shorter OCI's for the latest, direct injection engines. The VW/Audi turbos are particularly problematic. If sulfur levels in US gas drop to 10ppm as has been proposed, it will help. This will allow for reprogramming of the fuel injection maps on these vehicles and reduce fuel contamination of the engine oil.

TS


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## Alexsforge (Apr 21, 2013)

*only use synth for turbos*



Apexxx said:


> I just buy at the dealership, it's so close I can see the place from my window.
> 
> German Syntec is a thick 30 that doesn't shear, similar overall to M1 0w-40, a thin 40 that does shear down to a 30 weight. What makes it a VW 502 or "ACEA A3" oil is not the visc, but the HT/HS value being >3.5cP. The borderline of 30 and 40 weights around 13cSt allows the best 30 weight oil formulas to make the 3.5cP at +150c, a spec that normally needs a 40 (5w-40) to meet.
> 
> ...


 



hello i may not know exatly the best oils for a vw but i know that any time you have a turbo aplacation you "MUST" use a full synthetic. or you WILL fry the turbo!!!! ive worked on vehicles a good chunk of my life and ive seen maney fryed turbo chargers cuz some one thought it was better and cheaper to run dino oil. synth oil 40 to 60 dollars plus fillter. new turbo 1000 dollars and up!


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