# 2026 is going to be interesting



## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

Get your 3.6 Atlas now before 2026 rolls around



https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/michigan/articles/2022-04-01/new-vehicles-must-average-40-mpg-by-2026-under-us-standards#aoh=16488244113842&amp_ct=1648824416392&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&amp_agsa_csa=46731814&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usnews.com%2Fnews%2Fbest-states%2Fmichigan%2Farticles%2F2022-04-01%2Fnew-vehicles-must-average-40-mpg-by-2026-under-us-standards



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## KurtK (Feb 13, 2012)

Hopefully, this will get postponed or rolled back. Otherwise, only hybrids and EV's would be sold as of 2026 as virtually no gas-powered vehicles would average 40 mpg.


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## KurtK (Feb 13, 2012)

Looks like it's a fleet average, not required for every vehicle sold. It will still eliminate a lot of gas models though.
NHTSA Announces New 49 MPG Fleet Fuel Economy Standard By 2026


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## BsickPassat (May 10, 2010)

KurtK said:


> Hopefully, this will get postponed or rolled back. Otherwise, only hybrids and EV's would be sold as of 2026 as virtually no gas-powered vehicles would average 40 mpg.


Car enthusiasts better vote carefully in 2024.


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

BsickPassat said:


> Car enthusiasts better vote carefully in 2024.


Fact is, oil will become scarce at some point. Might not be a terrible idea to acknowledge that and start thinking about it _before_ we get to that point.

Plus technology will catch up. We'll have 40 mpg 400 hp before too long.


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

Fleet average.....

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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

KurtK said:


> Looks like it's a fleet average, not required for every vehicle sold. It will still eliminate a lot of gas models though.
> NHTSA Announces New 49 MPG Fleet Fuel Economy Standard By 2026


Yeah, feel like 3.6 Atlas is gonna be one of them

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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

God knows we want to cling to 16MPG


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

TablaRasa said:


> Yeah, feel like 3.6 Atlas is gonna be one of them
> 
> Sent from my XQ-AT51 using Tapatalk


And every other large 3-row SUV. Folks bust on the Atlas's mpgs but it's really no different (17-23mpgs) to me than any of the other competitors with that much room.


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## mtbsteve (Dec 6, 2011)

KarstGeo said:


> And every other large 3-row SUV. Folks bust on the Atlas's mpgs but it's really no different (17-23mpgs) to me than any of the other competitors with that much room.


Agreed, at least the Atlas has the 2.0T which should get better mpgs, almost all of the competitors only offer a V6 and only the Highlander has a hybrid but is smaller than the Atlas so not completely comparable. That being said, just looking at recent trip stats in the myvw app and seeing a range of 20-24 mpgs for recent commutes by my wife, some in traffic, some with none going through Boston, 90% highway. If you only drive around town, especially in winter, low to mid teens is all you get, in the Atlas and likely all of the others too. Will report back in a few weeks after a 2k+ mile roadtrip.


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

mtbsteve said:


> Agreed, at least the Atlas has the 2.0T which should get better mpgs, almost all of the competitors only offer a V6 and only the Highlander has a hybrid but is smaller than the Atlas so not completely comparable. That being said, just looking at recent trip stats in the myvw app and seeing a range of 20-24 mpgs for recent commutes by my wife, some in traffic, some with none going through Boston, 90% highway. If you only drive around town, especially in winter, low to mid teens is all you get, in the Atlas and likely all of the others too. Will report back in a few weeks after a 2k+ mile roadtrip.


We have had ours 4 years. Highway trip can see 24 or so, around town/pure stop/go/short trips will be 14 and that's hand-calc'd not the readout which is a bit optimistic. I never really thought this was an issue considering the size....it's on-part with our former Honda Odyssey. If you go to Fuely.com and compare real-world data across the competitors, the Atlas isn't wildly off but yes, around town is probalby a bit lower than some others. I figure our all-in combined over 40K miles is 18 which is about what you would expect.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vw-scrap-models-focus-premium-054326648.html



Looks like things will also get pricier...

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## mtbsteve (Dec 6, 2011)

TablaRasa said:


> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/vw-scrap-models-focus-premium-054326648.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Right. Saw this too. My opinion is that they are already slightly overpriced given the interior quality vs the Korean SUVs. Better materials would be the biggest change needed to be for all VW models. Second will have to be some plug in hybrid drivetrains, something that was teased before the Atlas came along and again in 2018 with a concept for the Atlas Cross Sport. That would help increase fleet averages and be a good stepping stone towards all electric. I had a PHEV for nearly 5 years previously but with a long commute and high electricity prices when gasoline was cheap, the benefit was a little lost but driving nearly full EV on the weekends was great. I know someone with a Pacifica PHEV and just filled up for the first time since early January, after 3,900 miles, because they were going on a road trip and would finally be putting enough miles on it that could not be topped off daily/nightly. A plug in hybrid powertrain is my wish for the next 3 row SUV I buy (for my wife to drive since she likes SUVs), along with a full BEV for my car.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

mtbsteve said:


> Right. Saw this too. My opinion is that they are already slightly overpriced given the interior quality vs the Korean SUVs. Better materials would be the biggest change needed to be for all VW models. Second will have to be some plug in hybrid drivetrains, something that was teased before the Atlas came along and again in 2018 with a concept for the Atlas Cross Sport. That would help increase fleet averages and be a good stepping stone towards all electric. I had a PHEV for nearly 5 years previously but with a long commute and high electricity prices when gasoline was cheap, the benefit was a little lost but driving nearly full EV on the weekends was great. I know someone with a Pacifica PHEV and just filled up for the first time since early January, after 3,900 miles, because they were going on a road trip and would finally be putting enough miles on it that could not be topped off daily/nightly. A plug in hybrid powertrain is my wish for the next 3 row SUV I buy (for my wife to drive since she likes SUVs), along with a full BEV for my car.


Wouldn't mind a 335-horsepower turbocharged 3.0-liter gasoline V-6 that pairs with a 134-horsepower electric motor finding it's way to a future Atlas . If they are gonna make the prices premium, might as well go all out!

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## mtbsteve (Dec 6, 2011)

TablaRasa said:


> Wouldn't mind a 335-horsepower turbocharged 3.0-liter gasoline V-6 that pairs with a 134-horsepower electric motor finding it's way to a future Atlas . If they are gonna make the prices premium, might as well go all out!
> 
> Sent from my XQ-AT51 using Tapatalk


Right! I think the planned version at the time was based on the 3.6. Way back, the Atlas was teased as coming with a PHEV set up, too bad they were wrong. Would have been a great way to differentiate and the VW crowd was already on board with paying more for alternative drivetrains, like we all did for the TDI option in most cars that cost more up front, cost more to maintain, more to fuel, etc but at least broke even over a ton of miles with better mpgs.

This is a quick article about the Cross Sport PHEV from 2018. The front end is real close to what they went with for the Cross Sport and '21 Atlas models and ties in with the way the ID.4 looks too, a pretty good blend. The interior even seems a bit more premium than the SEL we currently have. If this is the direction they want to head, sounds good to me. Only problem is, VW of America is probably happy to kill the Passat, kill off the cheaper Atlas models and just sell SE Tech and above trims to charge more, kill the Golf and only have the GTI and Golf R available and the over priced for a crap interior Arteon. Can't see them killing the Tiguan or the Taos, I believe the Tiguan single handedly keeps them in business. 

Volkswagen Reveals Atlas Cross Sport Plug-In Hybrid Concept (insideevs.com)


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

mtbsteve said:


> Right! I think the planned version at the time was based on the 3.6. Way back, the Atlas was teased as coming with a PHEV set up, too bad they were wrong. Would have been a great way to differentiate and the VW crowd was already on board with paying more for alternative drivetrains, like we all did for the TDI option in most cars that cost more up front, cost more to maintain, more to fuel, etc but at least broke even over a ton of miles with better mpgs.
> 
> This is a quick article about the Cross Sport PHEV from 2018. The front end is real close to what they went with for the Cross Sport and '21 Atlas models and ties in with the way the ID.4 looks too, a pretty good blend. The interior even seems a bit more premium than the SEL we currently have. If this is the direction they want to head, sounds good to me. Only problem is, VW of America is probably happy to kill the Passat, kill off the cheaper Atlas models and just sell SE Tech and above trims to charge more, kill the Golf and only have the GTI and Golf R available and the over priced for a crap interior Arteon. Can't see them killing the Tiguan or the Taos, I believe the Tiguan single handedly keeps them in business.
> 
> Volkswagen Reveals Atlas Cross Sport Plug-In Hybrid Concept (insideevs.com)


Saw this render of the ID8 supposedly to replace the Atlas









VW ID.8 confirmed, to replace/run alongside VW Atlas


Volkswagen Group has confirmed that it plans to launch a VW ID.8. The company has revealed that this will be a VW Atlas-class electric SUV.




topelectricsuv.com














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## Ivoryt (Aug 11, 2010)

It will get rolled back when we get a republican president gets back in there. These democrats are out of there minds with all of there restrictions. 


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

Republican or Democrat, I hope they will push us forward. Progress is good. This is the same conversation our Grandparents were having in the 60s and we had to endure all of the craptastic cars of the 70s and 80s but we came out on top with vehicles that are vastly superior in every way from the cars of the 60s.

I hope in another 40 years we can say that those cars are vastly superior in every way from the cars of today. All it takes is a couple of stinker presidents to derail us by letting the car companies get away with the bare minimum.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

Ivoryt said:


> It will get rolled back when we get a republican president gets back in there. These democrats are out of there minds with all of there restrictions.


I'm 41 and I was NEVER into politics at all....could've cared less & was never on one side or the other (but I didn't know what they all stood for either)
But with everything that's been going on lately....my eyes have been opened quite a bit


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

snobrdrdan said:


> I'm 41 and I was NEVER into politics at all....could've cared less & was never on one side or the other (but I didn't know what they all stood for either)
> But with everything that's been going on lately....my eyes have been opened quite a bit


Couldn't care less is what you meant. Could care less mean you care enough so that it is possible to care even less.


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## snobrdrdan (Sep 10, 2008)

speed51133! said:


> Couldn't care less is what you meant. Could care less mean you care enough so that it is possible to care even less.


Damn....I didn't know the grammar police were going to pull me over in here

But I was using it in past tense....as in I could have cared less back then/before, but anywho.....


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

Hey, I'm all for high HP, quick, fast cars. I love them. But when you have the VR6 Atlas with mediocre power, mediocre speed, mediocre acceleration, it better have great MPG to back it up to make up for that. I think it is underpowered yet has the bad MPG that a fast car would have. Worst of both worlds. 

Don't go yelling to me that the 2.0T is the fast car. For long term, you are really straining that anemic turbo if you chip it. You need to get a different turbo, different injectors, different exhaust, etc. By that time you are 10k plus into upgrades and make the Atlas not worth it. Just my opinion.


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

speed51133! said:


> Hey, I'm all for high HP, quick, fast cars. I love them. But when you have the VR6 Atlas with mediocre power, mediocre speed, mediocre acceleration, it better have great MPG to back it up to make up for that. I think it is underpowered yet has the bad MPG that a fast car would have. Worst of both worlds.
> 
> Don't go yelling to me that the 2.0T is the fast car. For long term, you are really straining that anemic turbo if you chip it. You need to get a different turbo, different injectors, different exhaust, etc. By that time you are 10k plus into upgrades and make the Atlas not worth it. Just my opinion.


The 2.0 with a stage 1 tune is so far from straining the "anemic" turbo it's laughable but to the point on the VR, I just don't get how folks think this thing is underpowered for what it is. Step on the freakin' gas and drive it in sport mode when you want to hold the gears longer. My Golf Sportwagen is at >2x stock power and is "fast" - I never drive our Atlas and think that it is underpowered.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

In a race with 8 in-class cars, the Atlas would finish DEAD LAST. I gave up entering info as it was apparent, the Atlas is underpowered.

2021 Atlas V6: 
60 mph: 7.8 sec
¼-mile: 16.0 sec 

2022 Kia Telluride:
60 mph: 7.0 sec 
¼-mile: 15.3 sec

2022 Mazda CX-9:
60 mph: 7.0 sec 
1/4 mile: 15.4 sec 

2021 Toyota 4runner
60mph: 7.7
1/4 mile: 15.4 sec

2022 GMC Acadia :
60MPH: 6.1
1/4 mile: 14.9

2022 Subaru Ascent:
60 MPH:6.9
1/4 mile: 15.5

2022 Honda Pilot:
60 MPH: 6.2
1/4 mile: 14.8

2022 Hyundai Palisade:
60 MPH: 7.2
1/4 mile: 15.6


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

2022 Honda Odyssey (3.5L)
60 MPH: 6.5
1/4 mile: 14.5


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## cardude944 (Nov 2, 2007)

Why is anyone talking about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times in a people mover? Buy something that's meant to go fast if that's what you're looking for. My Atlas V6 is plenty powerful for a daily driver. I'll take out my tuned GTI or my 944 if I need more.


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## KarstGeo (Jan 19, 2018)

cardude944 said:


> Why is anyone talking about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times in a people mover? Buy something that's meant to go fast if that's what you're looking for. My Atlas V6 is plenty powerful for a daily driver. I'll take out my tuned GTI or my 944 if I need more.


Precisely.

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## bboshart (Aug 6, 2012)

I don’t know about you guys but I bought an Atlas specifically because I live my life a quarter mile at a time.


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

The point was that it's underpowered vs everything else in its class. Not looking for a racecar, I've had plenty of those in the past. But an option for something more interesting would have been an easy sell for me.

Even more to the point was that forcing automotive companies to make progress is a good thing.


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## JettaGetUpandGo (Mar 1, 2005)

I'm actually surprised by the Honda Pilot and GMC Acadia. It's not that far behind the rest..8 seconds on a 0-60 in something that's in the 7-8 second range is hardly noticable. If it was 10 seconds or something drastically different you might have grounds for discussion.


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

I definitely see both points here but I do lean a bit more on a better offering engine option for the Atlas. The 3.6 VR6 is a great engine but I also drive a Passat Wagon with the same engine and for obvious reasons, it feels more amazing on the wagon. I am not even looking for a power output like the SQ7( which I think still qualifies as a people mover) but the Q7 offers that 3.0T or even the VR6T they have available for the Teramont (again, not sure emission wise it will work here) or even the 3.0L V6 they have on the new Touareg. Would just be nice to have an option that's all. But since it is the only choice we have currently, I still love our VR6 Atlas enough that we even recently traded our 2018 for the 2022 with the same engine !

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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

cardude944 said:


> Why is anyone talking about 0-60 or 1/4 mile times in a people mover? Buy something that's meant to go fast if that's what you're looking for. My Atlas V6 is plenty powerful for a daily driver. I'll take out my tuned GTI or my 944 if I need more.


Because it is a standard measurement of acceleration which is proportional to "underpowered" or not. More so than your opinion that it "feels fine". Yes, it is not a race car, but I am comparing it to cars in it's class, NOT to race cars. You said it's not underpowered because it is a people mover, yet it is the slowest car of all the people movers. Tell me, how much slower does it have to be to actually be underpowered for you?

Guess what, the Toyota MINIVAN has a better 0-60 and 1/4mile. Hell, the PRIUS is only 2 second slower in 0-60. The Toyota CAROLLA is less than a second slower.

SO I guess the Atlas is well powered compared to a Prius and Carolla. Slower than a minivan, but good enough in your opinion.

In a total vacuum with no cars on the planet I would agree that it is well powered. BUT, when we talk about something being good/bad/slow/fast/underpowered/etc, we are comparing it to other options in the same class and price. How do you not understand this?


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## cardude944 (Nov 2, 2007)

speed51133! said:


> In a total vacuum with no cars on the planet I would agree that it is well powered.


When it comes to a people mover, this is literally the only thing that matters. No one cares if a Mazda whatever is faster in a straight line. If the SUV feels competent and powerful enough then it's good enough for 99.999999999% of owners. I'm not lining up to next to some soccer mom in her Toyota Sienna and running light to light. If you want speed/power in an SUV buy something from Audi's SQ series.


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

Our opinions here don't matter anyway. VW doesn't really care or listen to consumers. Especially not enthusiasts on a forum.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

cardude944 said:


> When it comes to a people mover, this is literally the only thing that matters. No one cares if a Mazda whatever is faster in a straight line. If the SUV feels competent and powerful enough then it's good enough for 99.999999999% of owners. I'm not lining up to next to some soccer mom in her Toyota Sienna and running light to light. If you want speed/power in an SUV buy something from Audi's SQ series.


Nope. There is also towing capacity, driving up inclines, freeway on-ramp situations, etc. The Toyota Sequoia has a 7klb towing capacity and 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, over a full second faster.

So tell me, the fact that it is slower than EVERY SINGLE car in it's class of people movers, slower than grocery getters. It has the same 0-60 as a Chrysler PACIFICA. You know, you have to go into a totally different class of cars that are considered the slowest of all slow people movers until you get comparable stats. EVEN THEN it is not near the top. You never answered me when I asked HOW SLOW does the Atlas have to be until you think it is underpowered? 

You know what else is "fast enough"?? A smart car. I guess you think that is well equipped also. You know what US News says about the Smart car? "The Smart has just enough power for city driving but *can feel underpowered on the highway or when in need of quick acceleration*. " I guess they are just wrong, right?


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

Mustang Matt said:


> Our opinions here don't matter anyway. VW doesn't really care or listen to consumers. Especially not enthusiasts on a forum.


No, they don't. But I can still express mine and defend it against someone telling me it is incorrect or a bad one. The Atlas is the slowest in its class. That is a FACT. Now, to say it is underpowered, is opinion. I am basing it on the FACT it is the slowest. IDK, but that looks like a pretty good observation to me.


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## cardude944 (Nov 2, 2007)

speed51133! said:


> Nope. There is also towing capacity, driving up inclines, freeway on-ramp situations, etc. The Toyota Sequoia has a 7klb towing capacity and 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, over a full second faster.


The Atlas does all of these things very well. Obviously you don't agree, but I'm very happy with all of these aspects. My last daily was a 2004 Jetta GL with a 2.0 BEV. It had 115 HP going downhill downwind, maybe. Point being, that car had plenty of power too. Was it setting records? Absolutely not, but it didn't matter. You can harp about 0-60 times and 1/4 times all you want, but at the end of the day people are buying Atlas and Atlas CrossSports regardless of the "power deficiency" and are very happy with them, me being one of them. Power figures like that did not influence my buying decision in anyway. I'm not driving around WOT in my CrossSport all day.


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

Sir, you have won this battle of wit. Hear, hear.


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

Relevant Tested: 2022 Volkswagen Atlas Cross Sport 2.0T R-Line Is Not So Sporty


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## cardude944 (Nov 2, 2007)

I don't agree with their comment about the VR6 not being worth the extra $1750. For the sound alone it's worth it.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

cardude944 said:


> I don't agree with their comment about the VR6 not being worth the extra $1750. For the sound alone it's worth it.


Haha. You pushing the idea that not everyone needs WOT performance, yet justify your opinion on the sound of the engine....


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## Mustang Matt (Mar 26, 2019)

Yeah for $1750 you can buy a 2.0L and some speaker upgrades to play engine sounds.


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## cardude944 (Nov 2, 2007)

speed51133! said:


> Haha. You pushing the idea that not everyone needs WOT performance, yet justify your opinion on the sound of the engine....


Lol the nice thing about the VR6 is it sounds fantastic at very low rpm. Especially with the resonator removed.


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## speed51133! (Aug 5, 2002)

cardude944 said:


> Lol the nice thing about the VR6 is it sounds fantastic at very low rpm. Especially with the resonator removed.


You should hear the Toyota Sienna without a resonator!


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## TablaRasa (May 12, 2008)

Put this in production maybe?









VW Atlas Cross Sport GT Concept Gets the Golf R's 300-HP Engine


Volkswagen crafts a performance-oriented version of its coupe-SUV, sticking the Golf R’s turbo four-cylinder under the hood and upgrading the suspension and brakes.




www.caranddriver.com





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## krebsy75 (Jul 20, 2017)

All three of VW’s domestic SUVs are the slowest in their relative segments. Americans love power. I’m not sure why they are so stubborn to not address this. 


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## cardude944 (Nov 2, 2007)

speed51133! said:


> You should hear the Toyota Sienna without a resonator!


I'm guessing it's similar to those TRD Camrys, but I honestly have no idea what engine is in a Sienna.



krebsy75 said:


> All three of VW’s domestic SUVs are the slowest in their relative segments. Americans love power. I’m not sure why they are so stubborn to not address this.


And yet I see more Atlas and Atlas CrossSports than just about anything these days. I was sitting at a red light earlier tonight with 2 other CrossSports and that seems to happen pretty often lately.


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## JettaGetUpandGo (Mar 1, 2005)

krebsy75 said:


> All three of VW’s domestic SUVs are the slowest in their relative segments. Americans love power. I’m not sure why they are so stubborn to not address this.


They don't want to take the potential sales away from Audi.


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