# 16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)



## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

I keep on getting
16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (Intake): Retard Setpoint not Reached (Over-Advanced)
P0011 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
Now it is causing my MIL to illuminate, whereas before it was not. I have followed the procedure in the repair manual, except for:
check solenoid with multimeter (but if the camshaft adjustment test passes, this is a moot point, no?)
Check timing. If timing is an issue, the timing belt or tensioner are defective, no?
Any clues? I've spent $500+ fixing this and its still the same. The car runs at idle really rough, but otherwise seems fine. The engine no longer leaks oil but it is still running the same?
So far, I have:
1) Replaced MAF
2) Changed camshaft tensioner gasket
3) Change valve cover gasket
4) Replaced hoses between valve cover and PCV valve, the rubber one felt like butter when cold and the plastic one was cracked.
Car is 2001 VW Golf (1.8t







) AWW


_Modified by joako at 8:36 PM 4-2-2006_


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: 16395 - Bank 1: Camshaft A (joako)*

Since it is a "intermittent code",that is usually pointing toward something electrical.........it is possible you are having a inetrmittent failure pattern with your camshaft electrical solenoid.....


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

I did the solenoid check as per the repair manual -- it clicks as required.
I did the timing check with the engine running, it passes.
I came across this: http://72.14.203.104/search?q=...ng_en
Now that I think of it, there is a ticking noise from the engine, almost as if it was a diesel. This happens even after the car is warmed up and getting off the expressway, as it seems normal for the 1.8t engines to be somewhat loud when cold.


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Also the car stalls sometimes at low speeds, but It might have been the hose between the valve cover and PCV valve.....


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## Bastard (Jul 3, 2003)

yep, sounds like cam tensioner probably not engaging and causing the over advance condition.
seeing it more in the 2.8/2.7T audi engines where the oil seals have failed or the chain guides have worn right down and snapped the ends off.


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (joako)*

It is possible the hydraulic portion of your cam adjustment mechanism has sludge,or is blocked up internally either way,it would affect the timing mechanism by having it stick "on" or "off"..........the clatter could be your timing chains,and that there is a possibility that the hydrulic piston seal is bad,and not creating enough pressure to keep tension on the inter-cam timing chain,this would certainly lead to "rough running" or noise. It is also VERY possible,if you have not changed oil at tight intervals,that you have a CLOGGED oil pump pickup tube..........this would MOST DEFINITELY STARVE your cylinder head of oil,and not allow the chain adjuster to "do it's thang" and it could result in maJOR BOTTOM AND TOP END DAMAGE.
Look at the underside of your oil cap,if you see a lot of "deposits" then I would ;
1.Replace oil pump pickup tube (easy on transverse 1.8T)
2.Replace chain tensioner hydraulic assembly.
This will cost you a lot less than a failed motor/bent valves.


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (VWAUDITECH)*

BTW the "diesel sound" is very typical of a 1.8T with a sludge/clogged pickup problem.........the lifters/top end starves for oil and gets very noisy!


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Is there anything else that I should be worried about being broken in the engine? Or should replacing the camshaft adjuster correct the problem?
The car has 85,000 miles. Anything else I should have looked at while having this problem fixed?


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (joako)*

Try the oil pump pickup tube first......if you have any doubts about the internal condition of your engine.
If you go by VW's 5-7 K oil change recommendation.........YOU HAVE SLUDGE.


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

I bought the car with 50,000 miles, now it has 85,000 and I have changed the oil at most every 6,000 miles, Mobil 1 0w-40 or Pentosynh 5w-40. Synthetic, VW approved. I highly doubt there is any sludge.
You are saying that synthetic VW-approved oil changed every 5,000 mi can cause sludge?
What would the oil pump tube have to do with it?


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

I just noticed that the shop used 4 quarts of oil. Off to check my oil level....


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Oil is beyond the "max" mark. This is odd, the shop charged me for a bottle of brake parts cleaner, I assume that they would bill me for the exact amount of oil used.
But 4 quarts cannot fill the engine past the "max" mark.
And talking about oil. When my oil pan was replaced they twisted the turbo oil return, intead of replacing it with the new part. Would this matter?


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

This is what has been throwing me off. The repair manual states:

_Quote »_The following malfunction can occur for DTC 17927: 

The camshaft adjuster solenoid valve correctly switches oil pressure to the mechanical camshaft adjuster but it cannot reach its end position (e.g. tight/partially seized). 

But I do not get code 17927 (Bank1 Camshaft position adjustment malfunctioning) BUT the code it is throwing is pretty similar...


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## syktek (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (joako)*

i had this code, replaced my cam chain tensioner and it cured my problem


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Was your engine ticking a bit? Was the idle jumping around?


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_Was your engine ticking a bit? Was the idle jumping around?

Bump since I get that code every now and then, have ticking, and jumpy idle


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## syktek (Nov 23, 2002)

*Re: (BboyRonnie)*

i didn't notice any extra ticking besides the injectors...idle was never a problem...just kept getting that code


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## pheatton (Jul 19, 2004)

Please let us know what you find. When I bought my GTI I threw this code once and it was acting like you said. Now mine might have been a electrical issue or something. I do hear alot of noise coming from the top area of the engine, almost like a loud fast injector noise. I know also there is some "gunk" on the oil cap. I have seen to many engines get sludged, work at a Dodge dealer, and dont wanna see my GTI amoung them. So are there anything I can check for myself for anything amise??


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (pheatton)*

Any updates?


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## pheatton (Jul 19, 2004)

Bump for more help on this.


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## VWAUDITECH (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (pheatton)*

If you have ANY doubts of SLUDGE,go to the dealer,buy a $14.00 pickup tube,and if you want to use "their" oil pan sealer,it will cost 30 bux,then remove your pan,install new pickup tube (2 bolts) and re-install pan with sealer,and add oil=PEACE OF MIND.


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Is the VW sealant just RTV sealant or is it something special?


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## pheatton (Jul 19, 2004)

Well I printed this whole thread and Im going to take it to our VW dealer, owned by the same autogroup, and ask the tech I know personally what he thinks. More than likley gunna just put it in for service and see if I can get it under my warranty.


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

*Re: (BboyRonnie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BboyRonnie* »_Any updates?

The car is in the shop right now, they said some valve related to the camshaft adjuster (tensioner) is worn.


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_
The car is in the shop right now, they said some valve related to the camshaft adjuster (tensioner) is worn.

Keep this thread updated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## pheatton (Jul 19, 2004)

Yes please, mines goin under the knife on tuesday.


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Does anyone know what this should cost? I am being quoted around $1400 with a new timing belt (b/c it "has to be removed anyways")


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## pheatton (Jul 19, 2004)

Not sure as I work for an Autogroup with a VW dealer. I pay all employee prices and never see the retail costs. Mines not goin in till next week on tuesday as my tech is on vacation this week.


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## 82cb750f (Aug 22, 2005)

*Re: (joako)*

I just replaced my cam chain tensioner on my 01 jetta 1.t and i was able to do it without removing the timing belt. It was little tricky, but I was able to do it only removing the intake cam and not the exhaust cam. I've actually done it that way twice now.


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (82cb750f)*


_Quote, originally posted by *82cb750f* »_I just replaced my cam chain tensioner on my 01 jetta 1.t and i was able to do it without removing the timing belt. It was little tricky, but I was able to do it only removing the intake cam and not the exhaust cam. I've actually done it that way twice now.

Did it clear up the idle, valve noise, and that DTC?


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## 82cb750f (Aug 22, 2005)

*Re: (BboyRonnie)*

When I replaced the tensioner I didnt hae a rough idle or valve noise, just a DTC (intake cam over-retard). I reset the codes and it hasnt come back, but then again, I havent driven it very much because I'm having a separate issue with my turbo right now.


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (82cb750f)*

Well up for more info


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

Replaced tensioner (adjuster) timining belt, etc. It runs way better now, but the CEL is on....


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_Replaced tensioner (adjuster) timining belt, etc. It runs way better now, but the CEL is on....

What DTC?


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

1774 Camshaft position sensor (G40) / Engine SPeed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation
P1340 - 35-00- -


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_1774 Camshaft position sensor (G40) / Engine SPeed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation
P1340 - 35-00- -

Dam I get that one too. It comes and goes. WTF does it mean, timing


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (BboyRonnie)*

Bump for more info http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1QuickDub (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: (BboyRonnie)*

3 possibilities as I've done a lot of research on this lately:
(1) Cam chain tensioner
(2) Sheared keyway on your crank timing gear causing the car to go in and out of time.
(3) Cam pos. sensor.
Mine ended up being #2


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## 1QuickDub (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_1774 Camshaft position sensor (G40) / Engine SPeed Sensor (G28): Incor. Correlation
P1340 - 35-00- -

They set your timing incorrectly. Your timing is off. No doubt about it.
Possibilities IMO:
1. They didn't torque down your main crank bolt holding the pulley to the timing gear to the crank.
2. When they put the belt on the cam gear or crank gear rotated a tooth.
Get out a 19mm 12pt socket with a long extension and rotate the crank until you see the cam timing mark at TDC. Once cam timing mark is at TDC, check the mark on the crank pulley. Bet you're off by 1 or 2 teeth.


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (1QuickDub)*

Man I have a feeling I am. Well ill add that to my list of things to check this weekend


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## 1QuickDub (Aug 11, 2005)

*Re: (BboyRonnie)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BboyRonnie* »_Man I have a feeling I am. Well ill add that to my list of things to check this weekend

One way to tell if it's the crank gear key way is to check your timing over the course of about 3 or 4 days. See if the timing changes or always stays 1-2 teeth advanced/retarded.
If you decide to take your crank pulley off to inspect the timing gear's keyway, make sur you have a new bolt. It's a one time use stretch bolt.


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

The timing belt was a tooth or two off.


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_The timing belt was a tooth or two off.

Wow so how does it drive now? I want to check timing on mine now


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## joako (Jun 30, 2002)

It seems to accelarate smoother.


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## 98Bboy (Aug 29, 2004)

*Re: (joako)*


_Quote, originally posted by *joako* »_It seems to accelarate smoother. 

I got a sensor wait for me at lunch so ill try that. Ill chjeck timing too once I have time. Good to hear your car is ok now http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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