# how to tell ....



## mk1rabbitguy (Aug 23, 2005)

I'm looking at getting a tt. i've noticed there seems to be 3 hp ratings , how do I tell what it is.The info I got fromthe classified , 00 quattro 5 spd coupe 6 spoke 17" one exhaust cut out in the bumper, black leather no good info sorry, just wsant to know how to tell


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## Bazzy (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (mk1rabbitguy)*

The single exhaust is 180hp


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## mk1rabbitguy (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: how to tell .... (Bazzy)*

is the engine management interchangable? or is it other components that are different?


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## Bazzy (Jun 14, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (mk1rabbitguy)*

Between the 180hp and 225HP engine there are a couple differences. For one, the 180 uses a k03 turbo, while the 225 has a bigger k04 turbo. Also, the 225 has "stronger" internal partss (i can't remember what parts.) I'm sure a veteran of these cars can tell you all of the major differences. Did you try the search? I believe they have covered this topic before.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (Bazzy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bazzy* »_Between the 180hp and 225HP engine there are a couple differences. For one, the 180 uses a k03 turbo, while the 225 has a bigger k04 turbo. Also, the 225 has "stronger" internal partss (i can't remember what parts.) I'm sure a veteran of these cars can tell you all of the major differences. Did you try the search? I believe they have covered this topic before.

like a thousand times...in the end, a 225 will be faster than a 180, barring a turbo swap


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (l88m22vette)*


_Quote, originally posted by *l88m22vette* »_
like a thousand times...in the end, a 225 will be faster than a 180, barring a turbo swap

There are lots of mid to low 13 sec VW's out there with ko3's. Still havent seen to many 225's getting down there


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (mk1rabbitguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1rabbitguy* »_is the engine management interchangable? or is it other components that are different?

The engine management is different because of the different turbos. The 225 also has stronger connecting rods, a stronger clutch, an extra side-mount intercooler, a 6-speed transmission, and a dual-outlet exhaust. You can tell the difference between the 180 and the 225 by the shift knob and the exhaust pipe... although the shifter is more reliable, since the owner could have swapped out the exhaust.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
The 225 also has stronger connecting rods, *same exact ones in the 2000 and early 01 ATC engines* 
dual-outlet exhaust. *some 180's did come with stock 225 exhausts. Why, no one seems to know *


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
There are lots of mid to low 13 sec VW's out there with ko3's. Still havent seen to many 225's getting down there

Yeah, but considering the difference in price, the 225 is probably worth the extra money if you want maximum power without swapping out the turbo. To get the 180 up to 225hp, you'd probably need a TIP, exhaust, and chip, which adds up to about $1500. If you just take that extra money and just put it towards the 225, you wouldn't need a whole lot extra to get to that power level... plus, you have the flexibility to get up to around 280-300 bhp with just bolt-ons.
That said... I think it's a better idea to get the 180 and put the cash difference towards a bigger turbo. By the time I'm done, I should be close to 400hp at the wheels... which is probably around 500hp at the crank... a lot more than a 225 could dream of without a bigger turbo or nitrous.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_The 225 also has stronger connecting rods, *same exact ones in the 2000 and early 01 ATC engines*
dual-outlet exhaust. *some 180's did come with stock 225 exhausts. Why, no one seems to know *

The stronger connecting rods don't really matter anyway... they're only there as a safety precaution to handle the 225's extra power. The 180 doesn't really need them, so it shouldn't really be much of an issue.
People shouldn't use the exhaust to differentiate between the 180 and 225 anyway, since exhaust is such a popular aftermarket mod... you never know what a previous owner has done to their exhaust.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
Yeah, but considering the difference in price, the 225 is probably worth the extra money if you want maximum power without swapping out the turbo. To get the 180 up to 225hp, you'd probably need a TIP, exhaust, and chip, which adds up to about $1500. If you just take that extra money and just put it towards the 225, you wouldn't need a whole lot extra to get to that power level... plus, you have the flexibility to get up to around 280-300 bhp with just bolt-ons.


We were talking about being fast, not power numbers







You can go tell a person with a type r how much power you have and then watch them kill you in the 1/4 with less hp and far less torque


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
We were talking about being fast, not power numbers







You can go tell a person with a type r how much power you have and then watch them kill you in the 1/4 with less hp and far less torque 

Well, the Integra has a different power curve... I mean, I drive a 180, but I know that a 225 would rape me in a 1/4 mile if we have the same mods.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
Well, the Integra has a different power curve... .








ok? and that plays what in the conversation?


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_







ok? and that plays what in the conversation?

You were talking about getting beat by a Type R.


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## TT18T (Nov 18, 2004)

*Re: how to tell .... (mk1rabbitguy)*

This is how you tell from looking at the engine bay
open up the hood
tt 225








tt 180 (courtesy of RoberTT on audiworld)








notice the verticle grey colour piping that's found in the 225 is missing on the 180


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
You were talking about getting beat by a Type R.

The original statement was about speed, you brought up power, so i gave you a where a less powered car would beat you. The power curve has nothing to do with it. There are much more things that make a fast car besides power.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (TT18T)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TT18T* »_This is how you tell from looking at the engine bay
open up the hood
tt 225








*notice the verticle grey colour piping that's found in the 225 is missing on the 180*

That is the key, because you can come across someone that got a forge fmic which uses the 225 intake manifold but wont have that piping route.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
The original statement was about speed, you brought up power, so i gave you a where a less powered car would beat you. The power curve has nothing to do with it. There are much more things that make a fast car besides power.

I'm just comparing a 225 to a 180... most other factors are the same between those two cars. The bottom line is that a 225 is faster than a 180 unless you put a bigger turbo on the 180.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
I'm just comparing a 225 to a 180... most other factors are the same between those two cars. The bottom line is that a 225 is faster than a 180 unless you put a bigger turbo on the 180.

w/e you say. Need a new maf and ill hit the strip


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## FrozenSun (Oct 24, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*

why's it that 180vs225 is like "what oil is best" kinda of thread
never ending and boring with same people having the same arguments
to answer the OP 225 = dual pipes and 6 speeds
180 = inferiorty complex towards his bigger and better brother 225


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: how to tell .... (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_
w/e you say. Need a new maf and ill hit the strip

But you have a bigger turbo, right?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_
But you have a bigger turbo, right?

Nope

_Quote, originally posted by *FrozenSun* »_
180 = inferiorty complex towards his bigger and better brother 225









You wish


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

So you're saying that your 180 will do the 1/4 mile in less time than a 225 with the same mods?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*

Im pretty sure i can get it down to high 13's with my stock turbo, intercooler and no chip and on street tires. Guess we will have to see. The only thing that worries me is the heavy a$$ stock wheels


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

But the driver has a lot to do with everything. What happens when the same person tries the 180 and 225 side-by-side with identical mods? We're comparing cars here, not drivers.
Do you actually think that you can get a lower time with your 180 than what you'd get with a 225 with identical mods? Sure, you may not have a chip, but I know that your car isn't stock... you at least did the diode mod.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*

im sure i can get into the avg times for a 225 with chip and exhaust with simualr mods.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

Hmm... well, you tend to know what you're talking about, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt... but I'll have to see it to believe it.
Is it just because of the gear ratios? Or is there some other reason why you think it'll be just as fast?


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

Split, you are not considering that the 225 is heavier , If you gut an 180 FWD ( rear and passenger seats , mess with timing a little bit and put some 100 oct on it . you will be surprised what kind of times you could get with it.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (1.8Tabamoura)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8Tabamoura* »_Split, you are not considering that the 225 is heavier , If you gut an 180 FWD ( rear and passenger seats , mess with timing a little bit and put some 100 oct on it . you will be surprised what kind of times you could get with it. 

But if you gut a 225 and put some 100 oct into it, you can get the same effect. I'm talking about comparing the two cars with equal mods.
Sure, the haldex is heavier, but is it enough of a weight difference to make up for 45 hp? The gear ratios, on the other hand, might actually be different enough...


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## RsdntHERO (May 15, 2007)

*Re: (splitsecond)*

I really think that this forum should have an FAQ, cause lets face it, Searching sucks and this question appears all the time. plus even I am wish there were DIYs and ****. Maybe if i get really bored i will start one.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (RsdntHERO)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RsdntHERO* »_I really think that this forum should have an FAQ, cause lets face it, Searching sucks and this question appears all the time. plus even I am wish there were DIYs and ****. Maybe if i get really bored i will start one.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I'd be glad to contribute with what little knowledge I have.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*

Yea, I really don't know why the hell we don't have a FAQ


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

225s rule.


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## mk1rabbitguy (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: (1.8Tabamoura)*

good information, i found a good deal on a 180, but starting to think I should wait for a 225, 40 horse diff


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (mk1rabbitguy)*

+ other little stuff, and a simple tune and exhaust will give you much more then a 180 can do. If you're patient, you'll find a good deal on a 225, because prices are falling now that the MkII is out


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## jdog35 (Jul 10, 2007)

A big thing that was overlooked in the internals comparison was the compression ratio differences. The 225, if memory serves me, is a very low stock compression ratio of 8:9:1. The block is strengthened, pistons are forged and made by a different alloy, 1st ring on piston groove became 0.5mm thicker, pistons got reinforced shafts, crank housing ventilation was optimized, bearings are beefed up, turbocharger and exhaust manifold are different, downpipe and exhaust are different, injectors are larger, etc etc...
From Audi:
The higher-output 165-kW (225-hp) engine uses a high compression ratio (8.9:1) for a turbocharged unit. The 1.8-L engine was extensively modified to attain the higher output reliably. The pistons, connecting rods, and big-end bearings were uprated to accommodate the higher combustion pressures. The double-mass flywheel and clutch were modified to match the greater performance. The intake manifold, turbocharger, and exhaust manifold are new.
A Type K04 turbocharger forces air into the combustion chamber via two charge-air intercoolers. Compared to the less powerful 132-kW unit, a modified airflow path, together with a larger air cleaner, ensures that the air reaching the engine has a temperature only about 30�C higher than ambient. This 80% charge-air intercooler efficiency keeps the engine supplied with an optimum flow of oxygen-rich air. Maximum boost pressure at the intake manifold can reach 200 kPa (29 lb/in2).
The engine's torque curve is impressive, with 280 N*m (207 lb*ft) available from 2200 to 5500 rpm. With it, the TT can accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mi/h) in 6.4 s and has a top speed in the region of 243 km/h (150 mi/h). Flexibility is also impressive, needing only 11.2 s to accelerate from 60 to 120 km/h (37 to 75 mi/h) in fifth gear. The TT equipped with this engine and quattro all-wheel drive has a total fuel consumption of 9.2 L/100 km, according to the EU 93/116 test.
The "lower-output" 132-kW (180-bhp) engine still manages a specific output of 100 hp/L. It uses a relatively smaller KKK Type K03 turbocharger, its lower moment of inertia allowing the engine to respond more rapidly to accelerator pedal movements. Boost pressure builds more quickly for reduced "turbo lag." Torque at lower engine speeds is aided by optimized throttle-butterfly and boost-pressure settings. Audi says the turbocharger and five valves per cylinder layout work ideally together, since the potential of the turbocharger can be used to the fullest extent by the large total cross-sectional area of the valves in each cylinder.
An even higher compression ratio of 9.5:1 ensures high efficiency and low fuel consumption. According to the EU 93/116 standard, total fuel consumption for the front-wheel-drive version is 8.0 L/100 km. Torque of at least 235 N*m (173 lb*ft) is available from 1950 to 5000 rpm. Front-wheel-drive and quattro TTs equipped with this engine can accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mi/h) in 7.4 s, while the top speed of front-wheel drive at 228 km/h (142 mi/h) is slightly greater than the 226 km/h (140 mi/h) of the quattro model. In fourth gear, the 132-kW TT Coupe can accelerate from 60 to 120 km/h (37 to 75 mi/h) in 9.8 seconds.


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## Blue TTop (Nov 21, 2003)

Same old boring argument. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by Blue TTop at 11:12 PM 8-6-2007_


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (jdog35)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jdog35* »_A big thing that was overlooked in the internals comparison was the compression ratio differences. The 225, if memory serves me, is a very low stock compression ratio of 8:9:1. The block is strengthened, pistons are forged and made by a different alloy, 1st ring on piston groove became 0.5mm thicker, pistons got reinforced shafts, crank housing ventilation was optimized, bearings are beefed up, turbocharger and exhaust manifold are different, downpipe and exhaust are different, injectors are larger, etc etc...
From Audi:
The higher-output 165-kW (225-hp) engine uses a high compression ratio (8.9:1) for a turbocharged unit. The 1.8-L engine was extensively modified to attain the higher output reliably. The pistons, connecting rods, and big-end bearings were uprated to accommodate the higher combustion pressures. The double-mass flywheel and clutch were modified to match the greater performance. The intake manifold, turbocharger, and exhaust manifold are new.
A Type K04 turbocharger forces air into the combustion chamber via two charge-air intercoolers. Compared to the less powerful 132-kW unit, a modified airflow path, together with a larger air cleaner, ensures that the air reaching the engine has a temperature only about 30�C higher than ambient. This 80% charge-air intercooler efficiency keeps the engine supplied with an optimum flow of oxygen-rich air. Maximum boost pressure at the intake manifold can reach 200 kPa (29 lb/in2).
The engine's torque curve is impressive, with 280 N*m (207 lb*ft) available from 2200 to 5500 rpm. With it, the TT can accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mi/h) in 6.4 s and has a top speed in the region of 243 km/h (150 mi/h). Flexibility is also impressive, needing only 11.2 s to accelerate from 60 to 120 km/h (37 to 75 mi/h) in fifth gear. The TT equipped with this engine and quattro all-wheel drive has a total fuel consumption of 9.2 L/100 km, according to the EU 93/116 test.
The "lower-output" 132-kW (180-bhp) engine still manages a specific output of 100 hp/L. It uses a relatively smaller KKK Type K03 turbocharger, its lower moment of inertia allowing the engine to respond more rapidly to accelerator pedal movements. Boost pressure builds more quickly for reduced "turbo lag." Torque at lower engine speeds is aided by optimized throttle-butterfly and boost-pressure settings. Audi says the turbocharger and five valves per cylinder layout work ideally together, since the potential of the turbocharger can be used to the fullest extent by the large total cross-sectional area of the valves in each cylinder.
An even higher compression ratio of 9.5:1 ensures high efficiency and low fuel consumption. According to the EU 93/116 standard, total fuel consumption for the front-wheel-drive version is 8.0 L/100 km. Torque of at least 235 N*m (173 lb*ft) is available from 1950 to 5000 rpm. Front-wheel-drive and quattro TTs equipped with this engine can accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h (62 mi/h) in 7.4 s, while the top speed of front-wheel drive at 228 km/h (142 mi/h) is slightly greater than the 226 km/h (140 mi/h) of the quattro model. In fourth gear, the 132-kW TT Coupe can accelerate from 60 to 120 km/h (37 to 75 mi/h) in 9.8 seconds.

oh man, thanks for sheding light on this, we had no idea the compression ratio was lower on the 225.


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

This thread started here ..................................................................................................................
.....................................................................
.......................................................................
...................................................and ended here


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blue TTop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blue TTop* »_Same old boring argument. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

_Modified by Blue TTop at 11:12 PM 8-6-2007_











_Quote, originally posted by *1.8Tabamoura* »_
oh man, thanks for sheding light on this, we had no idea the compression ratio was lower on the 225.


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## jdog35 (Jul 10, 2007)

Hey, simply trying to help a guy who asked a question. As far as I could see no one had enlightened him to that fact, so I figured I'd post the full details for him all at once. Sorry if your day was wasted on a response to a thread you obviously know everything about but were reading anyway to feel smarter about yourself.


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## WA_TT (Aug 2, 2007)

*Re: (jdog35)*

I myself appreciate all the info since I am new to the board. It seems the old school guys should overlook redundant threads and let the new fish feed on them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (WA_TT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WA_TT* »_It seems the old school guys should overlook redundant threads and let the new fish feed on them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Find the search button and you can feast all night little fishy. Any basic ? you have, most likely (99.999999999999%), has been asked several times over the past several years this site has exsisted.


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## mk1rabbitguy (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

I'm sure this topic has been covereded before but all the keywords are too short and are thrown out by the search. like 180 225 tt hp to short and the search throws them. I think there has been a lot of good info, and since there is no faq (as mentioned earlier) this is probally the not the last time you"re going to hear it. I am not a seasoned expert when it comes to the tt I saw a excelent price on a quattro so I started to dig and couldnt find a answer to my question , but honestly if its an old question dont even bother to click on the post just to complain. thanks to all who have ofered insight, I am on vacation right now it the car is still available next monday I'll take it. 180hp inferiority complex and all http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Arizman3 (May 30, 2006)

*Re: (WA_TT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WA_TT* »_I myself appreciate all the info since I am new to the board. It seems the old school guys should overlook redundant threads and let the new fish feed on them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









Agreed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Let's see, maybe folks that read redundant information in posts and then take the time to complain about it are actually the ones with a problem eh?


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## Blue TTop (Nov 21, 2003)

*Re: (Arizman3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Arizman3* »_
Agreed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Let's see, maybe folks that read redundant information in posts and then take the time to complain about it are actually the ones with a problem eh?

It would help if the thread description wasn't so vague like "How to tell....". Some peeps respond with frustration over wasted clicks on dumbass misleading posts that are purposely vague.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (Blue TTop)*

People think that the most generic ? is never asked If they took 2mins to look, they would find the same topic probably on every other page, if not more frequent than that. 
My beef is that you get the people coming out, spewing misinformation, than every noob takes it as fact and then since they think they know the answer, spews it to the next noob.


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## jdog35 (Jul 10, 2007)

Here-here Cincy. That's why I went and posted the info straight from Audi so there was no confusion/misrepresentation. Kinda hard to screw up when it comes from the horse's mouth.


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## 602crew (Aug 21, 2002)

*Re: (jdog35)*

Come drive my 225 before you buy the 180.


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## mk1rabbitguy (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: (602crew)*

The 180 sold, so I started looking again and found a nice 225. I test drove it yesterday, and I'm going to pick it up on monday. very impressed with it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to bad no sunroofs


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## mk1rabbitguy (Aug 23, 2005)

*Re: (Blue TTop)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blue TTop* »_
It would help if the thread description wasn't so vague like "How to tell....". Some peeps respond with frustration over wasted clicks on dumbass misleading posts that are purposely vague.

wasted click?didnt realize your time was so valuable.the topic was covered in the first post, your the one who felt the need to keep reading for 2 pages get a life







http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 


_Modified by mk1rabbitguy at 3:03 PM 8-18-2007_


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (mk1rabbitguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mk1rabbitguy* »_ The 180 sold, so I started looking again and found a nice 225. I test drove it yesterday, and I'm going to pick it up on monday. very impressed with it http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif to bad no sunroofs









what do you mean no sunroofs ?


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## tasslehawf (Sep 29, 2001)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_People shouldn't use the exhaust to differentiate between the 180 and 225 anyway, since exhaust is such a popular aftermarket mod... you never know what a previous owner has done to their exhaust.

Like the extra exhaust tip you could attach under the bumper. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (1.8Tabamoura)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8Tabamoura* »_
what do you mean no sunroofs ?

















Holy crap, you could get a sunroof?!


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

A) is that one of the stick on sunroofs from ebay?
B) Where was the info found, specifying the top piston ring in .5mm thicker?


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_A) is that one of the stick on sunroofs from ebay?
B) Where was the info found, specifying the top piston ring in .5mm thicker?


thats TTschwing from ModShack's car. he had it installed 
http://public.fotki.com/ttschw...stall/


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (1.8Tabamoura)*

Thats sweet! Wonder how much that bad boy was...


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

*Re: (1.8Tabamoura)*


_Quote, originally posted by *1.8Tabamoura* »_
thats TTschwing from ModShack's car. he had it installed 
http://public.fotki.com/ttschw...stall/


Schwing is my hero.


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

I read that you could also retrofit a new bettle sunroof there as well.


_Modified by 1.8Tabamoura at 3:38 PM 8-25-2007_


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## jdog35 (Jul 10, 2007)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

All the specs on the internals came from Audi. I posted that at the top of this page. I figured that would close the discussion here and the O.P. would have an actual, official reference to look at while deciding. Guess I was wrong


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (jdog35)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jdog35* »_All the specs on the internals came from Audi. I posted that at the top of this page. I figured that would close the discussion here and the O.P. would have an actual, official reference to look at while deciding. Guess I was wrong









good job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Is that what you are looking for with you post?


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (jdog35)*

I read whereit said "pistons were uprated" but it doesnt say how. I would think maybe lightened, or strengthened metal. I just didnt see anything about piston ring thickness. When u pull up the piston ring part numbers, it shows the same part number as an 02 Beetle








Im just a little skeptical


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

the only difference is that they use 9:1 c/r and the rings are differnt.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

The compression ratio is changed by the top of the piston, but what was changed in the piston ring??? If it was thickness, then can someone give me a credible source where they found this? By part numbers, they are the same. I rebuilt my 225 motor with VW Beetle piston rings, and couldnt get a .005 feeler gauge between the ring and piston groove. Runs like a champ


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

I would agree with Bob 

_Quote, originally posted by *bobqzzi* »_
Rings for AMU pistons are big dollars, they are NOT the same as the normal 1.8T rings

fron this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3310960


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## splitsecond (May 17, 2007)

Why won't you guys jus tlet this thread die?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (splitsecond)*

It actually had some value in the last couple post







(first time for everything)


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Price has nothing to do with it. 
Example: Rear brake pads for 92 VW passat, 1996 Audi A6, 98-05 VW Jetta, Beetle, Passat, 2001 Audi TT
*THEY ARE ALL THE SAME* but they can differ in price, up to $100!!! I go to my local VW dealer, and get factory VW Pads for my TT.... And dont try to feed me any crap about the pad-compounds being different, someone has already tried








And just because its an Audi, its gonna be more expensive... VWs and Audis have alot of the same parts, but its always more expensive on the Audi


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

He was refering to 225's costing more than a 180 or any other 1.8t so there has to be a differnce. If you want specifics, you can send him a pm and ask. 
The TT's have larger rear brakes than other cars and 225's are even a little bigger and vented so im not sure they all use the same pads.
Audi stuff isnt more epensive because its for an audi if they are interchangeable. Audi body panels and interior peices are more expensive, but other things shouldnt be.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cincyTT* »_I would agree with Bob 
fron this thread http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3310960

Does that count for the later BEA w/VVT?


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

they use the same pistons. So yes.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

I know for a FACT the brakes are the same. What do pads have to do with thickness of the rotor???








My dad OWNS a VW/Audi shop, and I do my brakes there. He has only stocked 1 style of brake pads for over 7 YEARS!!!! The part number changes by 1 letter(06a, o6b, ect.) The letter simply describes the application(what car it goes in). Even though, they are all the same rear brake pad!!!!
Go to Autozone, pepboys, oreilys ect. and ask them for a set of beetle rear pads, then ask for a set of TT rear pads, or passat rear pads. I bet they have the same box of pads for every one. And if they dont, hold em up next to eachother, and see how they are exactly the same.
Knowing this, call VW, and price a set of pads for a beetle, passat, jetta, whatever.... Then call audi and price a rear set for a TT, and they WILL be more expensive for the Audi. I work in a VW dealership, I install rear brakes pads all the time. I went through every box of rear pads, and they're all the same. But they cost more for the Passat, than a beetle or jetta.


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## diehlryan (Feb 22, 2007)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_I know for a FACT the brakes are the same. What do pads have to do with thickness of the rotor???








My dad OWNS a VW/Audi shop, and I do my brakes there. He has only stocked 1 style of brake pads for over 7 YEARS!!!! The part number changes by 1 letter(06a, o6b, ect.) The letter simply describes the application(what car it goes in). Even though, they are all the same rear brake pad!!!!
Go to Autozone, pepboys, oreilys ect. and ask them for a set of beetle rear pads, then ask for a set of TT rear pads, or passat rear pads. I bet they have the same box of pads for every one. And if they dont, hold em up next to eachother, and see how they are exactly the same.
Knowing this, call VW, and price a set of pads for a beetle, passat, jetta, whatever.... Then call audi and price a rear set for a TT, and they WILL be more expensive for the Audi. I work in a VW dealership, I install rear brakes pads all the time. I went through every box of rear pads, and they're all the same. But they cost more for the Passat, than a beetle or jetta.









the pads cost more to who? the dealer or the consumer? if its just to the consumer its a classic case of dealer marking up products sold for higher end cars.. perhaps the mentality that if they can afford a more expensive car they can afford more expensive parts.
BEND OVER!


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (diehlryan)*

So, even if that is correct, would that not justify Audi selling the same 1.8t rings as VW, but at a higher price, for a higher end luxury car?
BEND OVER


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_I know for a FACT the brakes are the same. What do pads have to do with thickness of the rotor???










I was refering to the diameter or the rotors. The 180 brakes are larger than all vw's but the gli, 20th, and 337, and the 225's have even larger brakes. They probably are the same, that was just my concern about them.

_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_So, even if that is correct, would that not justify Audi selling the same 1.8t rings as VW, but at a higher price, for a higher end luxury car?
BEND OVER









The 180 uses the same 1.8t rings, 225's do not. Why screw a 225 owner and not the 180 owner? Honestly, send bob a pm and you will have your answer and you can let it die already. He knows just about everything about vw engines and will explain the differnce for you.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

How does Bob know??? Iv rebuilt my 225 engine, just like he did. When I put the 1.8 rings on my piston, I ran a feeler gauge in the gap, and there was no room for an extra .5mm!!!!! There are people that actually know more than u(and bob for that matter). 
Everyone on fourtitude knows SSOOOO much about what they're talking about, because they heard someone else say it!!!!! Why are you even arguing this point, when you dont have a f*cking leg to stand on? 
I know the answer, and Im satisfied with that, and if Bob wants to argue it with me, then we will have the conversation.


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

This is bob - http://qedpower.com/
He doesnt just build his, he builds them for 600+whp over and over again. Plus when you *SELL* them, im sure you know the differnece.


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

How many 600hp 1.8ts are built with stock AMU rings???


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

Since the pistons can do it, i would have to say all of them








BTW, i pm'd bob - bobqzzi (8:52 PM 8-27-2007): Different dimensions and I believe different materials


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Im pretty sure they're built with Mahle Motorsport pistons


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*


_Quote, originally posted by *toomuchtoplaywith* »_Im pretty sure they're built with Mahle Motorsport pistons









You do realize those ARE the stock pistons right?


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## DBR007 (Sep 23, 2004)

*Re: how to tell .... (splitsecond)*


_Quote, originally posted by *splitsecond* »_

That said... I think it's a better idea to get the 180 and put the cash difference towards a bigger turbo. By the time I'm done, I should be close to 400hp at the wheels... which is probably around 500hp at the crank... a lot more than a 225 could dream of without a bigger turbo or nitrous.


Huh, why not get the 225? Your starting with an extra 45hp. Either way to get to 400hp your going to have to do a turbo upgrade on either car.


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: how to tell .... (DBR007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DBR007* »_

Huh, why not get the 225? Your starting with an extra 45hp. Either way to get to 400hp your going to have to do a turbo upgrade on either car. 

DINGDINGDING! we have a winner! everyone can now S-T-F-U


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (cincyTT)*

Yeah right. On ur boy "bob"'s page, they are 8.5:1 cr, and the 225 is 9.0:1.... How are those the same. The tt pistons may be MADE by Mahle, but they are not the motorsport pistons. 
Oh yeah...we are both half right/wrong...
Ur boy Bob said... there is a diff in rings... however, its not the thickness... they are not .5mm thicker


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## l88m22vette (Mar 2, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

The 180 is 9.5:1, the 225 is 9:1 http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1.8Tabamoura (Jul 29, 2005)

I love lamp


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## toomuchtoplaywith (Dec 21, 2006)

*Re: (l88m22vette)*

DING DING DING, UR right.... but the MAHLE motorsport pistons are listed as 8.5:1


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## cincyTT (May 11, 2006)

*Re: (toomuchtoplaywith)*

AND??? all the 1.8t are Mahle pistons. Just because he sells them at a differnt c/r doesnt mean that the stock pistons arent the same materials and strength. The stock pistons (vw/audi) have not seen a limit on strength with some making over 600+whp. 
I never said what the differences in the rings were (cause i dont know, or care), just that they were differnt.
BTW, now you just arguing just to argue.


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