# C2 equipped mk3 12v: supercharger stalling problems, please help!



## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*C2 equipped supercharged mk3 12v: stalling problems, please help!*

To start things off, about my setup:
1995 12v obd1, C2 36# software, Vortech V9-F, ISV intact, EGR and SAI deleted

on to the problem:
my car starts up and idles perfectly when cold. As it warms up and is driven (say after 15 minutes or so of continuous driving, i.e. freeway) throttle response will begin getting rough: hiccups, sputtering, non responsive partial throttle. If I depress the clutch, the motor will stall. the RPM just nosedives, and the motor cuts out. It will always start back up and run, so long as you keep the throttle open and are feeding it fuel. Anytime you try to allow the motor to idle, it will die.
as you continue to drive (15-30 minutes in) throttle continues to get worse. hiccups become more and more violent, throttle response more and more choppy. Exhaust is EXTREMELY rich smelling (no wideband so I don't know exactly what the A/F is at this point) and black smoke is coming out of the exhaust.
at this point, driving (even while keeping the throttle open partially to attempt to prevent stalling, i.e. "heel toeing") becomes almost impossible. It feels as though several pistons are not firing: large hiccups, sputtering, jerking, popping, etc.
turn the car off, let it cool, problem goes away. I have also had some success disconnecting the battery for several minutes and trying again. It generally works, but the problem always returns.
I have no CEL, and my computer is not throwing any codes (at least thats what the shop the car is at right now is telling me).

What I have done to attempt to fix the problem:
1. obtained a new chip from C2 thinking maybe my chip was bad. no dice, same results
2. replaced the radiator, fans, expansion tank, tank cap, fan switch, all three sensors in the thermostat housing (i have a stock temp thermostat that is new as of the charger install), completely flushed the coolant system, and upgraded to G12 coolant.
it was thought that perhaps my coolant temp sensor was bad, thereby causing the car to run extremely rich, but the new sensor yields the same results.
3. disconnected o2 sensor and drove for a prolonged period: same result if not worse.
The o2 sensor is the original that came on the car, as is the MAF sensor.
anyone have any ideas? TIA!


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## SUPERCHARGED-JETTA (Aug 7, 2001)

*Re: C2 equipped supercharged mk3 12v: stalling problems, please help! (Beastie97)*

Have you checked your ignition? Spark plugs? and is this a coil pack or Dizzy?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: C2 equipped supercharged mk3 12v: stalling problems, please help! (SUPERCHARGED-JETTA)*

haven't checked the ignition.
it is coilpack, and the coilpack is new as of a few years. There are no signs of wear on it, all plastic is in good shape, no broken ends.
Spark plugs are new as of charger install, NGK BKR7E

remember that the problem gets consistently worse, the longer the car is driven. I would imageine that if it were a problem with any of the above, it would be the same no matter cold, hot, driven for a minute, driven for an hour, etc...


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

Could these be symptoms of a fouled o2 sensor?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (germanrox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *germanrox* »_Could these be symptoms of a fouled o2 sensor? 

it has definitely been suggested. I drove it for about 30 minutes on the freeway with the o2 sensor unplugged. it acted the same as when it was plugged in. I suppose this in and of itself could mean that the o2 sensor is bad. Wouldn't there be SOME change in the car's behavior with the o2 connected vs disconnected








next things I try will be:
o2 sensor
MAF
air temp sensor


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_
it has definitely been suggested. I drove it for about 30 minutes on the freeway with the o2 sensor unplugged. it acted the same as when it was plugged in. I suppose this in and of itself could mean that the o2 sensor is bad. Wouldn't there be SOME change in the car's behavior with the o2 connected vs disconnected








next things I try will be:
o2 sensor
MAF
air temp sensor

First off, lets tackle one problem at a time. Will a problem truely be solved if you replace three seperate items at once and then it is fixed? If the problem arose once more you would be left guessing which solution fixed it, the o2, the maf or the ait.
Secondly, and this is only based on my inference, but if the o2 sensor was indeed dead and then you unplugged it and saw no difference, that would lead me to believe it was indeed time to go on to the next step of changing out the o2 sensor. Then if that doesn't work go on to the next issue. 
Also, would a poorly functioning maf throw a cel?


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## beauvrt2 (Feb 7, 2009)

Oh man you should try and use a vag com and scan your car. Then do a throttle body adaptation. That might fix it or tell you what the problem is. And you could also spray some contact cleaner in the main ecm plug the 60 some odd pin one, and the round 40 some odd pin twist lock one by the coil pack. Have seen this fix a similar problem. But your best bet is scaning it.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (beauvrt2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *germanrox* »_First off, lets tackle one problem at a time.

yes, I should have been more clear. I meant that I will try those things, one by one, in that order. from least to most expensive fix.


_Quote, originally posted by *beauvrt2* »_Oh man you should try and use a vag com and scan your car. Then do a throttle body adaptation. That might fix it or tell you what the problem is. And you could also spray some contact cleaner in the main ecm plug the 60 some odd pin one, and the round 40 some odd pin twist lock one by the coil pack. Have seen this fix a similar problem. But your best bet is scaning it.

it has been scanned. I did throw a throttle body adaptation failure code, which I did not understand. my car is obd1, it has a non adaptive throttle. what am i missing here? the shop could not re-adapt the throttle, they thought due to the c2 chip restricting them. but again, it is obd1. i thought they were using an obd2 cable and getting inaccurate codes.



_Modified by Beastie97 at 10:15 PM 4-2-2009_


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

When the maf died on my car (mk4 1.8t) it was diagnosed by scanning the car while on a dyno and reading the airflow - I believe the unit of measure was in grams per second (g/s). So if the maf is toast that would be where I look first to check.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (germanrox)*

No CEL on my car. I will start with the cheaper parts and work my way up to the MAF.


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## MKII16v (Oct 23, 1999)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

Have you reset the ecu or disconnected the battery since you replaced the coolant temp sensor? I once replaced one on a car and it continued to run off the default dead ECT sensor map until I disconnected the battery.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (MKII16v)*

No, as a matter of fact I have not done that. I will though, asap. Thanks for the suggestion.








Is there an easier method of resetting the ecu than disconnecting the battery?


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

any new news?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (germanrox)*

Unfortunately no new news yet. The shop still has the car and I have actually not heard from them since the day I dropped the car off







hopefully it will be ready by the time I get back in to town Wednesday. 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will update asap.


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_Unfortunately no new news yet. The shop still has the car and I have actually not heard from them since the day I dropped the car off







hopefully it will be ready by the time I get back in to town Wednesday. 
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will update asap. 

Have them call me if they need some help.
chris
C2


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*

Thanks Chris, I will. Unfortunately though, I think this is a bit over their heads. I don't see why though, as I don't think it has anything to do with the chip, so they should be able to diagnose the problem. 
Do you have any additional ideas other than the ones already thrown out?

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

have you tried moving the maf further away from the charger. thats the usual problem.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

Unplug the ISV and then reset the ECU, if this does not solve the problem then the 95% sure that your o2 sensor it toast...I delt with this 4 years ago, was diagnosed as a faulty o2 sensor on OBD1, so that was replaced but still had problems, so I pulled the ISV off and reset the ECU and never had a problem since. That was almost 50k ago.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeckManDubs* »_Unplug the ISV and then reset the ECU, if this does not solve the problem then the 95% sure that your o2 sensor it toast...I delt with this 4 years ago, was diagnosed as a faulty o2 sensor on OBD1, so that was replaced but still had problems, so I pulled the ISV off and reset the ECU and never had a problem since. That was almost 50k ago.

By unplug the isv, do you mean unplug the harness an leave the valve intact? Or do you mean unplug as in remove the isv altogether?
If and when you remove the isv, do you adjust the clamp on the throttle cable to keep the TB open and prevent stalling?
My MAF is as far away from the charger as it can be without elbowing into the front bumper.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

You can unplug it and leave it in there as a test, however make sure you pull the ISV out and close the door inside, then reinstall but without plugging back in. You can also take it out entirely and just adjust the jack screw on the TB to get your idle into proper position (what I had to do when I put my Schimmel SRI on)


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*

ok, i'll try it when i get the car back. if that ever happens...


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## Danza. (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

where is your maf.
you either killed a maf or an isv


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Danza.)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Danza.* »_where is your maf.
you either killed a maf or an isv

MAF is located pre charger. It is about 4-5" away from the bottom of my euro vr lip, so about 4" off the ground. It is possible that it got soaked from being that low and fried as a result. 
I still have not heard from my shop. Um calling today to see what the damn deal is. I need my freaking car back already.


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## Danza. (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

is it directly underneath the blower or angled/to the side


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Danza.)*









except that it is now lower, as I put in an additional coupler that extends the MAF further away from the charger inlet.


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## Danza. (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

yeah move it as far as possible and not directly vertical as oil will drip on it


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Danza.)*

its currently as far away as it can be without elbowing into the front bumper. That will be a last ditch resort. It should be far enough away as it is right now.

I just talked to the shop. They said they are not able to use "Life Tools" on the scan, so they can't determine what the cause may be. WTF is "Life Tools"? or did I hear him wrong. I told him to call Chris, as I have no idea what he is attempting to do.


_Modified by Beastie97 at 1:57 PM 4-9-2009_


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## Danza. (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

try and get a 45 in there. I know its hard, I could never get it b/c of the euro rad support and being low.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_








except that it is now lower, as I put in an additional coupler that extends the MAF further away from the charger inlet.

That is fine, run that way for years with no problems.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeckManDubs* »_
That is fine, run that way for years with no problems.

yeah, I can't imagine that it is not far enough away from the charger inlet right now. I really don't think that MAF placement is responsible for my problems.
Deck, do you have any idea what the shop is talking about with this "life Tools" thing that is part of the ECU scan?


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## Danza. (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

I, and tons of other people, have had your same issues from having the MAF where yours is placed on OBD1 cars.
it also could be your ISV.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_
yeah, I can't imagine that it is not far enough away from the charger inlet right now. I really don't think that MAF placement is responsible for my problems.
Deck, do you have any idea what the shop is talking about with this "life Tools" thing that is part of the ECU scan?

They could be using one of those Snap-on scanners that allows for checking components by turning them on and off/metering voltage. Your MAF placement is fine.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeckManDubs* »_
They could be using one of those Snap-on scanners that allows for checking components by turning them on and off/metering voltage. Your MAF placement is fine.

man I hope that's not the case.
I'm pretty sure they are using factory VOA scanners. These guys are really a great shop, by far the best I have ever been to, so I find it highly doubtful that they would be that low budget.
My shop was able to get a hold of Chris yesterday, so hopefully they sorted it out. I'm going to call them up today and see what the deal is and hopefully get the car back at lunch.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

ok, I just picked up the car from the shop. It did not stall on the drive home, however partial throttle response was quite poor. It was still hiccuping and stuttering.
I have no doubt that the problem still exists despite the fact that it did not stall at all this time. Next time I drive it, I'm sure the stalling will return.
I talked to the mechanic again and realized what he was saying when he was telling me he couldn't scan the computer. What I thought was "life tools" was actually him saying "live data" (he's swiss, give me a break







) so, it is the "live data" he was looking for and not able to see.
anyways, its back in my hands now, and I'm going to start swapping parts.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

New o2 sensor installed = no change.
should I move on to the MAF?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

Have you unplugged the ISV/


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeckManDubs* »_Have you unplugged the ISV/

I unplugged the ISV, and disconnected the battery; let the car sit for about 15 minutes, just to make sure, and started it back up. It ran like ****. So I cut it off, reconnected the ISV, reset the ecu again, and headed out.
I drove to my friends place where I replaced the o2 which was about a 40 minutes away. I was still experiencing partial throttle hiccups, but other than that, it seemed to be running quite well. I ran it pretty hard, and also let it cruise along at a constant. All seemed good, I even tried engaging the clutch, expecting it to immediately stall out, and it never did.
before we replaced the o2 sensor, we took a look at the ISV; pulled it from the TB and looked inside. It seemed quite clean and the "door" seemed to actuate smoothly and spring back in place tightly. I noticed that the door does not close all the way, but remains partially open, but I'm assuming this is to control idle when at idle or vacuum. so, I have no frame of reference here, but it seems as though the ISV is still functioning properly?
after we replaced the o2 sensor, she was back to her normal antics. in fact, this morning, after sitting all night, the car would not hold idle at all.
I know my problem is somewhere in the fuel delivery. When i'm on a default map (closed loop, like at WOT) the car is awesome. Anywhere below 4000 RPM she hiccups and smells EXTREMELY RICH. My throat is typically sore after a long drive from inhaling the fumes.
So, I'm on to the MAF next I suppose. My buddy is not optimistic about the MAF being the cause, but I figure I may as well try. He wants to wire in an A'Pexi SAFC to take care of the problem, which is something I was going to do anyways, but I wanted to get it smooth beforehand.
any other ideas?


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

with the ISV unplugged it will run like crap upon start up. Just feather the pedal for 30 sec & it will adjust. Driving however will be much better.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*

well, it may have been a stupid move on my part, and hopefully one that is reversible, but I purchased a new ISV and a new MAF last night, as well as an air intake temp sensor.
My concern with the ISV being the culprit though, is how would that influence fuel delivery. Like I said, the car is running EXTREMELY rich anytime it is not in closed loop, so like anytime under say 4000 rpm. I don't have a wideband, but from the smell and the charring on my brand new spark plugs, I'm going to assume its somewhere in the 1:8 or 1:9 range. its stiiiiinky.
this makes me think that it cant be the ISV. As far as I know, the ISV does not influence fuel delivery at all, correct?
regardless, I bought a new one to swap on. If it fixes it, yay! if not, I'll return it.


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## CorradoMagic (Apr 11, 2008)

ISV does not influence fuel delivery to the point of running pig rich. 
O2 & MAF along w/ CTS regulate delivery. OBD1 is a pretty basic design


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## Danza. (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*

yeah replace the coolant temp sensor while youre at it if you havent


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (CorradoMagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CorradoMagic* »_ISV does not influence fuel delivery to the point of running pig rich. 
O2 & MAF along w/ CTS regulate delivery. OBD1 is a pretty basic design

o2 is now new, with no change. MAF is about to be replaced. CTS = Coolant Temp. Sensor? If so, that is also new, with no change.
seems like it is all hinging on the MAF. Man I hope that is the problem. If not, the car will be parked until I can save up for one of these:
















http://lugtronic.com/
Plug and Play Standalone ECU. $1500 is a bit steep though, so hopefully I can solve my problems here...


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

well guys, i got some work done yesterday. I started out the day by replacing the ISV with a brand new one. The car started up and held idle. I went for a spirited drive (about 30 minutes) during which it held up fairly well. I had some floating idle (would hang around 1500 - 2000 rpm) that would not always settle with a throttle blip.
It never stalled while moving, so all the times I was cruising on the highway and depressed the clutch, it would hold without stalling. Partial and low end throttle response still seemed a bit choppy though. It did stall once when coming to a stop light, but it started up again and held idle with no feathering. I am not convinced that my original ISV is faulty. There was not enough difference in the operation of the motor to convince me of that. So, I decided to move along to the MAF.
I put in the new MAF and took it out again. Partial and low throttle response seemed improved. Idle was holding well. I still had some floating throttle but it would always resolve itself (again, usually not by blipping the throttle though). It would still not stall out while crusing on the highway. Most times when coming to a stop at a light, it wanted to stall, idle would dip waaaay low, bounce back up, dip again, bounce, and then hold steady. It only actually stalled one time (I never feathered the throttle, I wanted to see what would happen without input from me) and started back up and held throttle fine after that.
The biggest thing to me was that after the MAF replacement, it seemed to be running slightly leaner, which is what I was going for. It was super pig rich before, and is still quite rich smelling, but it didnt seem to be quite as bad after the new MAF. So, I'm wondering if perhaps the MAF was bad, and is now fixed, and the ECU is re-adapting itself to all the readings, thus still running slightly rich, and still having some idle issues. I don't know, what do you guys think?
The last note here, and something that is worrying me a bit. I also replaced my air intake temp. sensor. When I pulled it out of the manifold, this is what I saw:
















Should I be worried about all that oil on the sensor? Doesn't seem right to me...
and also, about every other time I start the car, this warning light stays on:








what is this indicator for? Why would it only come on every other time I start the car?


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## Danza. (Apr 6, 2008)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

check the supercharger to see if theres a bunch of oil in the inlet/outlet after a drive.


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## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_
what is this indicator for? Why would it only come on every other time I start the car?

Thats the Tie fighter warning indicator, that means there on your 6!


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mkiii2.0jetta* »_
Thats the Tie fighter warning indicator, that means there on your 6!


that isnt just any tie fighter, that's vader's tie fighter...


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## rtanderson2 (Apr 1, 2009)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

That indicator is a break light sensor. sounds like you need new front brakes (me too







) 
My bet is on the MAF. I had the same problem with my GTI a year or so ago. I replaced the MAF and haven't had a problem yet. 
Hope that helps. 
Good luck.


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_









That light is for your front brakes I believe. Check 'em!


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## mkiii2.0jetta (Jul 1, 2004)

*Re: (germanrox)*

Id hope there still there...


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (mkiii2.0jetta)*

well, my ABS module has been bad for about 8 years now.
all of my break wear / speed sensor harnesses have been cut through and / or destroyed by one f_ck-tard or another over the years. srsly, none of them are connected and working, I guarantee you. Honestly I rly don't care about the brakes. The car stops, good enough for me right now.
I was more wondering what that light was, because it came on for the first time in my 10 year history of owning this car, directly after the o2 sensor was replaced.
and literally, if it comes on when I start up, all I have to do is turn the motor off and turn it on again, the light will go away.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Danza.* »_check the supercharger to see if theres a bunch of oil in the inlet/outlet after a drive.

Yes, I will definitely do that. I would hate for my charger to be blown already, but i did buy it used, so I can't say as though thats not a possibility.


_Quote, originally posted by *rtanderson2* »_That indicator is a break light sensor. sounds like you need new front brakes (me too







) 
My bet is on the MAF. I had the same problem with my GTI a year or so ago. I replaced the MAF and haven't had a problem yet. 
Hope that helps. 
Good luck. 

MAF is now new, I just need to put more miles on it now, to see if the ECU adapts more. I also need to change spark plugs, as mine have been pretty fouled by all the rich burning.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

well, I think the MAF may have been the culprit. I have not been able to get the car to stall again and partial throttle response is improved. It also seems as though it is not running quite as rich as before, but without and A/F gauge I have no way of telling for certain
I now, however, kind of have the inverse problem of before. my idle now floats most of the time. If the engine speed goes above 2000 rpm, 9 times out of 10, it will not drop below 1500 rpm when engaging the clutch. Even if I blip the throttle, the engine will still hang at about 1500rpm. It will settle down to 800rpm after 5 seconds or so, all of its own accord.
any ideas on this one? Is the ECU just still trying to adapt to all the new sensors and all the juicy new tidbits of correctly metered information?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

car stalled twice on me when I was out getting lunch.






















I disconnected the battery and unclipped the ISV harness, waited a few, and started it up again. Driving back to work, the car did not stall, but the idle was obviously rougher. Partial throttle response was worse and it seemed to smell richer. It did not stall however.
I'm beginning to be at my wits end.


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## GLI_jetta (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

dude, i feel the same way with my brothers vrt leaning out in boost..i feel your pain. Its so frustrating


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

*Re: (GLI_jetta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GLI_jetta* »_dude, i feel the same way with my brothers vrt leaning out in boost..i feel your pain. Its so frustrating 

Injectors maxed out? What is the duty cycle at wot?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (germanrox)*

I have a new theory for this whole thing:
the most change I have seen in my system so far has come whenever I have fiddled with the ISV, so my current thinking is that it is all linked to that. With the ISV harness unplugged, the car did not stall, but it idled rough, partial throttle was choppy, throttle response was poor, and several times it threatened to stall, but never did. The idle did not float, like it was doing before though. It would sometimes bounce around and hold at 800 and sometimes go straight to 800 and sit steady. It smelled rich, but not horribly so.
I also tried to plug the harness back in, the motor was running when I did this and as soon as I clipped the harness in, the motor stalled. Ok, this makes sense, the ECU was like wtf, where did all this new info come from? That and probably the valve sprung shut or something when it got power and cut off the flow of air. So, whatever, I started it back up and it fired right away. I took it out for another drive: same old problems. some floating idle, wanted to stall a lot, idle would bounce around, throttle response poor, and it smelled richer than before.
this all leads me to my theory: it is not the ISV valve itself that is bad, rather it is the ISV tubing that connects the TB and the charge pipe. I am thinking that this tubing and the big silencer thing in the middle, just cannot hold boost. As a result, anytime I am under boost, I am losing metered air. The ECU is dumping fuel to match the amount of air that the MAF is saying is coming in, but since I am losing some of it through the ISV tubing, the car is running rich because the air that it thinks is there, actually is not. This is then coupled with the ISV valve itself trying to control the idle based on the readings of the MAF that are rendered semi-useless due to the fact that I am losing metered air. Does this sound reasonable?
I think the correct order of business is to delete the ISV system. I am fairly certain that I will need a -10AN cap for the bung on my charge pipe. What else do I need? What is the proper procedure to delete the system? How do I avoid the CEL, or is it inevitable when deleting the ISV?
Thanks for all the continued help and PLEASE let me know if my theory is just ridiculous, or if you think it could work. Also please help me to delete the system appropriately.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## baupfhor (Apr 10, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

Im agreeing with the guys saying to move your maf further away. I had the same issues as you until i bought some 3" piping and ran a 90deg tube from the sc inlet tube across the bottom of the rad support and finally up to the drivers side. i mounted my maf and air filter behind the drivers side fog light. No surging, no stalling and strong idle. I (was) running obd1 coilpack on C2 36# software. In fact i just pulled everything off the car today. (need to rebuild my bottom end)
I wish i had taken pictures sorry.


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_
yeah, I can't imagine that it is not far enough away from the charger inlet right now. I really don't think that MAF placement is responsible for my problems.
Deck, do you have any idea what the shop is talking about with this "life Tools" thing that is part of the ECU scan?

MOVE the filter away from the maf... also adjust the throttle idle screw at the throttle body... clean the ISV... gap plugs to ~.022 and report back...
i helped my friend that had the same problem and its all better now after he did all of these...


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## 20vGinster (Mar 5, 2009)

*Re: (PjS860ct)*

what are the last two letters your ECU number? If you don't use either one of two ECU codes recommended by C2 the car WILL NOT run right, and have the problems you're having.

_Quote, originally posted by *www.c2motorsports.net* »_ Specifically for the EA/BM ECU of the '95 Golf/Jetta


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (20vGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vGinster* »_what are the last two letters your ECU number? If you don't use either one of two ECU codes recommended by C2 the car WILL NOT run right, and have the problems you're having.


REALLY? NO SH_T??? why did neither Jeff or Chris mention this to me? I don't know the code, but I will post it this evening, along with my SH_T-TASTIC dyno results...


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## 20vGinster (Mar 5, 2009)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_
REALLY? NO SH_T??? why did neither Jeff or Chris mention this to me? I don't know the code, but I will post it this evening, along with my SH_T-TASTIC dyno results...

It's an odd piece of info that tends to slip through the cracks







Hopefully this is the prob and it's a simple fix


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (20vGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vGinster* »_
It's an odd piece of info that tends to slip through the cracks







Hopefully this is the prob and it's a simple fix









yeah, no sh_t there. thanks for the info, I am going to check this straight away when I get home.
chances are, even with the correct ECU, I will be going with an A'Pexi SAFC2 to squeeze all I can out of this setup. Having the correct ECU will definitely help tho


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## C2Motorsports (Nov 25, 2003)

*Re: (20vGinster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vGinster* »_
It's an odd piece of info that tends to slip through the cracks







Hopefully this is the prob and it's a simple fix









"odd piece of info" ??
It has always been designated and posted on our website. EA/BM is the Golf/Jetta OBD1 ECU with coilpack. It also has the new style MAF with removable sensor.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_
It has always been designated and posted on our website. EA/BM is the Golf/Jetta OBD1 ECU with coilpack. It also has the new style MAF with removable sensor. 

ahhh, I see, so that IS what mine is then. Thanks for clarifying Chris. On a side note, can I email you my Dyno results from Saturday? I am still having MAJOR issues with my setup. I posted a meager 208whp, so something is definitely wrong.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 20vGinster (Mar 5, 2009)

*Re: (C2Motorsports)*


_Quote, originally posted by *C2Motorsports* »_It has always been designated and posted on our website. EA/BM is the Golf/Jetta OBD1 ECU with coilpack. It also has the new style MAF with removable sensor. 

It's always been there, but unfortunately people rarely see it... I've seen this prob a few times now







Not your fault by any means or the websites... just people not reading well enough









_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_
ahhh, I see, so that IS what mine is then. Thanks for clarifying Chris. On a side note, can I email you my Dyno results from Saturday? I am still having MAJOR issues with my setup. I posted a meager 208whp, so something is definitely wrong.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

You should still pull out the ECU and check the numbers... VW made ECU's that are OBD1, with the late MAF, but not the two codes specified.


_Modified by 20vGinster at 6:51 PM 4-27-2009_


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (20vGinster)*

It is raining really bad here right now, my car is immersed in a pool of water, so I can't check the ECU. I will try to look at it in the morning before I go to work.
In the meantime, here's my dyno sheets:
















Run number one is with the "correct" 3 bar fpr, as per C2's instructions. Notice the CRAZY A/F at low rpm, finally settling to 15s and then eventually to mid 13s. This aint right. Notice also the weird HP and TQ dip @ 4900 and again at 5500 RPM. I should NOT need an inline or intank fuel pump with my setup... The other strange thing is that the car smells VERY rich at idle. So, it seems as though I am running rich at idle, then going WAY lean when I need the fuel, and never really coming out of it.
Runs 2 and 3, I swapped a 4bar fpr in, just to see what happened. The A/F is a lot more constant, and much less scary, but still, I start out at 13.5 and end up at 12.5. This could be a lot better.
Any thoughts as to what's going on here?


_Modified by Beastie97 at 9:46 PM 4-27-2009_


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## germanrox (Mar 30, 2001)

a/f for runs 2 and 3 look to be above average in quality. I wouldn't have a problem with them.
You do have some weird reverse v-tec going on at 4900 rpm and 5500rpm. What's up with that?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (germanrox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *20vGinster* »_
You should still pull out the ECU and check the numbers... VW made ECU's that are OBD1, with the late MAF, but not the two codes specified.

ECU ends with EA










_Quote, originally posted by *germanrox* »_You do have some weird reverse v-tec going on at 4900 rpm and 5500rpm. What's up with that?

You tell me man.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

pics for clicks








I'm talking to Chris right now, trying to swap my chip for another. If I do and I still have these problems, I'm going lugtronic.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (Beastie97)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Beastie97* »_pics for clicks








I'm talking to Chris right now, trying to swap my chip for another. If I do and I still have these problems, I'm going lugtronic.

Lugtronic > C2


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeckManDubs* »_
Lugtronic > C2

yep, I hear you. I really wanted C2 to work for me, but it's just not. Oh well, can't get mad at off the shelf tuning. If you think about it, it doesn't really make sense to spend THOUSANDS on an FI setup and a couple hundred on fueling for it. I should have known it was too good to be true.
anyways, I wish I had listened to my friend and not started throwing money at new sensors. They money I spent on that could have been the beginning of my lugtronic fund. now I have to start from scratch.
I'll still give Chris a shot, if he is willing to swap my chip for me, but he has already done it once, so I don't know how interested he will be in doing it again.


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

well, true to form (at least with me) Chris is doing everything he can to help me. He is sending another chip to rule out software problems.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for C2 customer service, I'm just still not convinced it will solve my problems.


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## jkillion (Feb 12, 2000)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

Hey man,
did you ever resolve this? 
I just finished stage 2 VF kit install (V9 supercharger). Had a C2 chip and car ran as you described. Questionable idle, sometimes ok, mostly rough and searching. Lots of bucking when shifting and rolling acceleration. Would stumble then hit hard. Switched to the GIAC chip that came with the VF Kit and it seems to run MUCH better. Much more stable idle (though still some searching) and good strong power with no big hesitation. My car is Corrado 12V VR6 with Distributor, so maybe not perfect comparison, but seems similar
pics of my install http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...13430


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (jkillion)*

Car is running better with the latest chip from Chris, thanks man. I have decided, however, to go standalone.
All my gear is up for grabs, if anyone needs anything, check my sig.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

*Re: (Beastie97)*

Were any additional tweaks made to this latest software from Chris? Just wondering what was necessary to improve your car?


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## obdONE (Jan 28, 2002)

*Re: (V-dubbulyuh)*

I have no idea, honestly. I just put it in, and it felt better, but still not great.
I had the ISV capped off, and it wasnt stalling anymore, but it was running very rough, and I was hating cold starts. I decided to re-install and it started stalling again, so I guess that was actually the cause...
I'm currently collecting and assembling all the pieces for standalone right now.


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