# Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives



## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com
This board is frequented regularly by several tribologists and contains many, many used oil analysis threads, virgin oil analysis threads, and lots, lots more ... mandatory surfing destination if you want to learn more about oil, lubrication, and additives.
Also, if you want to get your own oil analysis done (used or virgin), Blackstone Laboratories and Dyson Analysis are two quality labs.
Cheers - good to see a new technical forum - lets keep it that way, and avoid the hype and bs that seems to eventually surface ...


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (f1forkvr6)*

I use _1 Quart _of *LUCAS* with every oil change.


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## f1forkvr6 (Jun 10, 2002)

Ah ... okay ....


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_I use _1 Quart _of *LUCAS* with every oil change.









He-he... LUCAS = Snake Oil


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
He-he... LUCAS = Snake Oil










What wrong with using _LUCAS?_


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_

What wrong with using _LUCAS?_

What's right with it?
Is that stuff you're polluting your oil with a PAO Group IV synthetic? Nope.
Is it recommended in a VW or Audi maintenance manual anywhere? Nope.
Does it meet even a single 502.00 or later VW oil standard? Nope.
Is using _any_ oil additive (Lucas or otherwise) in direct opposition to the language in your Owner's Manual? Big time.
So, convince me why it isn't Snake Oil.


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*

I don't care to agree with the likes of shipo as I think he tends to offer opinions with no factual basis.
But in this case I would have to agree. Lucas numbers generally aren't very good. They just have good marketing. A good oil doesn't need an additive.


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## tagsvags (Nov 25, 2005)

Just use the CORRECT oil as per VW and stay away from any oil addatives. They are just a waste of money and may do more harm than good Just MHO.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_
What's right with it?
Is that stuff you're polluting your oil with a PAO Group IV synthetic? Nope.
Is it recommended in a VW or Audi maintenance manual anywhere? Nope.
Does it meet even a single 502.00 or later VW oil standard? Nope.
Is using _any_ oil additive (Lucas or otherwise) in direct opposition to the language in your Owner's Manual? Big time.

So, convince me why it isn't Snake Oil.









I thrash on my car & I use it because its a good oil additive for my K03. Moreover, I've seen Top Fuel Dragsters run it. I have friends run it in their 1960's 427 Corvettes, (SAE 30 with 1 Quart of Lucas = really thick oil... lol) Turbocharged 5.0 Mustangs, Buick Grand Nationals, Dodge Vipers, Lamborghinis, & Ferraris, etc... etc... 
You ask: Is it recommended in a VW/Audi manual? 
Q: What do you think they are gonna say, yea use "Lucas oil additive"??? 
A: Uhh no, That would be promoting a company other than themselves & that's not why they are in business. 
So there's your answer on why VW/Audi fail to mention it in their manuals.


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*

Sorry dude,
I've seen numbers after testing on a few different lucas products. If I remember right the numbers start off good, but have no life span and end up dropping off the charts, in a big way.
Best bet is to use a good quality oil designed for the specific application you're using it for.
The "right" oils already have the additive package built in to it. Even for the Vipers, Lambo's , Ferrari's and turboed mustangs.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*

Like it or not, believe it or not, you are reducing the quality of your oil (assuming you're even using the proper oil to begin with) by polluting it with the Lucas treatment. Claiming that other folks use it in other engines, regardless of how powerful, is absolutely, positively a smoke screen and bears no relevance to this discussion.
The fact is, if you suffer an engine failure and VW finds out about that bilge watter you're putting in your oil, it's almost a certainty that they'll void your warranty.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (nuskool)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nuskool* »_Sorry dude,
I've seen numbers after testing on a few different lucas products. If I remember right the numbers start off good, but have no life span and end up dropping off the charts, in a big way.
Best bet is to use a good quality oil designed for the specific application you're using it for.
The "right" oils already have the additive package built in to it. Even for the Vipers, Lambo's , Ferrari's and turboed mustangs.

I already use good oil. Lucas is just a little something extra that i choose to add. P.S. I run my lawnmower ONLY on Lucas Oil. It's been running like a clock for years. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by rippie74 at 5:04 PM 6-26-2008_


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*

Since you run "good" oil, then you're reducing the ability of that "good" oil to protect your engine by pouring the Lucas treatment into it.


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_
I run my lawnmower ONLY on Lucas Oil. It's been running like a clock for years. 

_Modified by rippie74 at 5:04 PM 6-26-2008_

My mower now has Amsoil in it but only because it's a $600.00 mower.
But for the last several years I've run cheap oil in a cheap mower and only changed about once every 3 or 4 years and I never had problems either. Most mowers will run forever if you take care of them even just a little. Additives in good sound engines do no no good at all. Doesn't matter the brand.
That's why Amsoil doesn't make additives. They make the right oil for the right application. (save it shipo)


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (nuskool)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nuskool* »_
My mower now has Amsoil in it but only because it's a $600.00 mower.
But for the last several years I've run cheap oil in a cheap mower and only changed about once every 3 or 4 years and I never had problems either. Most mowers will run forever if you take care of them even just a little. Additives in good sound engines do no no good at all. Doesn't matter the brand.
That's why Amsoil doesn't make additives. They make the right oil for the right application. (save it shipo)

shipo likes to argue. 
P.S. I have a ride-on lawnmower/tractor (it's not cheap)


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

I like to argue? I see, so you dismiss my comments out of hand because they disagree with your blind belief in the marketing crap from Lucas. Smart, real smart.
Tell you what, write a letter to VWoA and ask them if they'll honor your warranty if you use the Lucas oil additive in your engine. I'll bet you dollars to donuts that they'll not give you the answer you want to hear. Of course I suppose you can dismiss that as "argumentative" as well.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (nuskool)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nuskool* »_That's why Amsoil doesn't make additives. They make the right oil for the right application.

Do tell. Would you please enlighten us as to how you know that Amsoil makes the right oil for a late model VW?


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*

Figure it out for yourself. I did. It helps if you open your mind a little.
As for warranties being denied, They'll use any excuse they can to deny a warranty knowing that most people will never challenge it.
I remember one post from someone that said warranty was denied because he had after market ground effects. Should have been challenged, but wasn't.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (nuskool)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nuskool* »_Figure it out for yourself. I did.

I call BS.
Short of paying for your own test battery to see if the oil meets any of the specs that Amsoil claims, there is absolutely no way for you or anybody else to "figure it out". I'm thinking that such statements from you (or any other purveyor of Amsoil products) is more than a bit self-serving and disingenuous to say the very least.


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*

ya know for 51 years old you act like a teenager. Actually I know teenagers that act more mature.
Plain and simple, I've seen no other company release any where near the amount of technical info that Amsoil does. (and I've looked for a fair amount, although I wouldn't say extensively.) And to date no one at all has been able to refute their claims. 
I'm sure that if someone could, they would.
Your obviously a pessimist that thinks the world is out to get us. Do us all a favor and get off the paranoia trip.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (nuskool)*

- If you're going to debate something, then debate it; if you redirect the discussion away from the points being raised, you lose credibility.
- If you don't like or agree with the points that someone makes, step up and produce references that refute the points that you don't agree with; just saying that the other party is wrong doesn't make it so. If you fail to refute the points or otherwise dodge the issue, you lose credibility.
- If you get backed into a corner, don't start calling the other party names or impugning their character; it just hurts your credibility.
Back on topic, Amsoil has steadfastly refused to have their oil certified to meet the standards that are provided by the various automobile manufacturers, and as such, there is no proof that their oil will not cause harm to (in this case) any late model VW or Audi engine. If you don't agree, refute the point with fact.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*

Ok that settles it... shipo is gotta be in the oil industry as a chemist or possibly a salesman. What are you a disgruntled employee who used to make/sell _Slick50_? The jigs up man... I mean... Why else would someone put up such a vigorus arguement about "oil additives" lol. 
Bottom line: Use what works for you, that's what I do. There are PLENTY of people out there who throw in a quart of (whatever oil additive they want, including Lucas) in their crankcase everytime they change their oil. 
shipo: You sound like a "T type" (theory) personality. The kind of guy who see's it black & white. To communicate with shipo you have to make a big deal about explaining the theory or principals behind an idea, the "why", also you must know the Technical details & complexities about the issue. 
I said it before & I'll say it again... shipo like to argue. All BS aside... That's it. 
P.S. What's a guy (who drives a 2002 BMW 530i) doing on a VW/Audi Forum anyway?


_Modified by rippie74 at 8:32 PM 6-27-2008_


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*

Ya know, personal attacks aren't even remotely constructive.
The point I've been trying to make is that Lucas oil treatment is not only not approved for use in VW and Audi engines, using it can lead to damage to your engine and to VW voiding your warranty. Don't believe me? Cool, check your manual for the specifications on what is to be used in your engine, I guarentee that Lucas oil treatment doesn't meet the required specs.
You want to prove a point? You want to prove me wrong? Good, I'm all ears and always willing to learn. Here's your chance to both make your point and to back it up with some references.
You have my word on this, if you can produce evidence that Lucas oil treatment is acceptable for use in a late model VW, I'll post a retraction of everything I've written on the issue as well as an appology to you.
Ball's in your court babe.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_Ya know, personal attacks aren't even remotely constructive.
The point I've been trying to make is that Lucas oil treatment is not only not approved for use in VW and Audi engines, using it can lead to damage to your engine and to VW voiding your warranty. Don't believe me? Cool, check your manual for the specifications on what is to be used in your engine, I guarentee that Lucas oil treatment doesn't meet the required specs.
You want to prove a point? You want to prove me wrong? Good, I'm all ears and always willing to learn. Here's your chance to both make your point and to back it up with some references.
You have my word on this, if you can produce evidence that Lucas oil treatment is acceptable for use in a late model VW, I'll post a retraction of everything I've written on the issue as well as an appology to you.
Ball's in your court babe.









I've never heard of VW/Audi or ANY company saying another companies product should be used with theirs. Why would they do that?


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »_
I've never heard of VW/Audi or ANY company saying another companies product should be used with theirs. Why would they do that?

Well now you've heard of it (and please take note, not a single Amsoil or Lucas product on the entire list):
http://www.audiusa.com/etc/med...e.pdf


_Modified by shipo at 1:13 AM 6-28-2008_


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*

_"Well now you've heard of it (and please take note, not a single Amsoil or Lucas product on the entire list):"_
Who cares about a list with 1,000 different types of oil on it anyway, as a matter of fact... The oil I use is on that list, (Quaker State) but thanks for your concern. You do what you want & I'll do what I want.









_Modified by rippie74 at 10:22 AM 6-28-2008_


_Modified by rippie74 at 10:22 AM 6-28-2008_


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rippie74* »__"Well now you've heard of it (and please take note, not a single Amsoil or Lucas product on the entire list):"_
Who cares about a list with 1,000 different types of oil on it anyway,

Well, VW / Audi care about it, since the list that was posted is a list of all of the currently available oils that have been certified to meet the 502.00 and 505.01 standards, which specify the formulation and other properties that VW / Audi require from oils to be certified to meet the design characteristics / engineered specs of their engines. If the oil is not on that list, VW / Audi have not certified that it meets their standards for use in their engines.
That said:
*The personal attacks and bickering stop now. Having a debate about oil and various additives is fine, but there will be no more personal attacks, ok? *
-Tim


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## nuskool (Jun 19, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*


_Quote »_Back on topic, Amsoil has steadfastly refused to have their oil certified to meet the standards that are provided by the various automobile manufacturers, and as such, there is no proof that their oil will not cause harm to (in this case) any late model VW or Audi engine. If you don't agree, refute the point with fact.

Again, 2 sides to every coin. There is no proof either way. I happen to at least understand both sides of that coin, my opinion on which side is right just happens to be different from yours. I don't agree with everything Amsoil chose to do, nor VW or the oil industry in general. Very political, too political. Oh, too make it clear, I haven't recommended Amsoil to the person in question.

_Modified by SilverSLC at 12:01 PM 6-28-2008_


_Modified by SilverSLC at 12:01 PM 6-28-2008_


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (SilverSLC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverSLC* »_
Well, VW / Audi care about it, since the list that was posted is a list of all of the currently available oils that have been certified to meet the 502.00 and 505.01 standards, which specify the formulation and other properties that VW / Audi require from oils to be certified to meet the design characteristics / engineered specs of their engines. If the oil is not on that list, VW / Audi have not certified that it meets their standards for use in their engines.
That said:
*The personal attacks and bickering stop now. Having a debate about oil and various additives is fine, but there will be no more personal attacks, ok? *
-Tim



Tim, I am with you on this one. I use _Quaker State 5w-30 _in my GTI as well as _Lucas Oil Treatment,_ while others use Tufoil, Amsoil, & other oils as well as additives in their vehicles... All I said was I use Lucas & that's when it all went downhill. I don't see what's the big deal about all this. People need to relax about this.


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*

Let me ask you a question:
Does your Owner's Manual include the following quote in the section that describes engine oil and additives?
"Volkswagen does NOT recommend the use of oil additives. They may adversely affect your Limited New Vehicle Warranty."
How is it that you interpret that passage to mean that it is acceptable and even desirable to use the Lucas oil treatment?


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *shipo* »_Let me ask you a question:
Does your Owner's Manual include the following quote in the section that describes engine oil and additives?
"Volkswagen does NOT recommend the use of oil additives. They may adversely affect your Limited New Vehicle Warranty."
How is it that you interpret that passage to mean that it is acceptable and even desirable to use the Lucas oil treatment?









The key word in all of this is oil additives *MAY* (not will) affect your Limited New Vehicle Warranty. Thank-You


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## shipo (Jan 3, 2006)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*

True, if your new VW suffers an axle or electrical system failure, you could use dime store oil and not have your warranty voided, however, you put Lucas (or any other non-approved oil or additive) in your crank case, and then suffer an engine or turbine bearing failure, then rest assured, VW *WILL* void the warranty on your engine.


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## rippie74 (Sep 26, 2007)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (shipo)*

Like I said the operative word here is *MAY*


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## [email protected] (Dec 12, 2001)

*Re: Site dedicated to Oil, Lubrication and Additives (rippie74)*

Ok, folks, it's evident that this one is finished.
-Tim


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