# Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad maf?? Supercharged OBD2 VR6



## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

So i drove my car about 100 miles round trip to a gtg this afternoon and on the way there the car seemed to be running fine but then every once in while i started getting a little bucking or shudder when i let off the gas. Then later in the trip when i got into traffic lights and into town the car would bounce around at idle and then stall out. Once i would get it started again and try and accelerate it would hesitate before the car would get going. On the way home the shuddering seemed to get worse and so did the hesitation off of idle. I checked all my vacuum/ boost lines and they all seemed to be ok. The weird thing is all of this started happening when i put my new upgraded version of c2's 30# chip in this morning. I havent gotten a chance to vagcom it yet. Im thinking bad maf but im not 100% sure. Anything else i should look for? 
car in question










_Modified by Gaets at 2:43 PM 3-10-2008_


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## 16vg60jay (Nov 25, 2004)

Where is your maf located?
Mine was doing the same untill I relocated the maf further away from the charger.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (16vg60jay)*

its in front of the charger but its about as far away as i can put it.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

youve got what sounds to be the same issue ive got. 
got any codes??? 
mines got a knock sensor code and i replaced it to spec and its still got the same code. so i need to check the wiring in the car.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punk rock kiel* »_youve got what sounds to be the same issue ive got. 
got any codes??? 
mines got a knock sensor code and i replaced it to spec and its still got the same code. so i need to check the wiring in the car. 

havent checked them yet, im going to run vagcom in a little while and see whats there


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (Gaets)*

ok well it wasnt the maf, i tried swapping mine out with one i know works and that didnt fix anything. i did run the codes and all it said was vehicle speed sensor which has nothing to do with the bucking and something about the car running too rich, i dont remember the actual code.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

from what [email protected] said the vss sensor tells the ecu what speed/gear your in compaired with the RPMS. 
i have the same code plus knock sensor and my gauge cluster speedo is dying. i bought a new VSS and it didnt change. (new ones are 25 bucks, so its not like a huge hit on price)


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

so your saying you had the same problem and the vss fixed it?


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

no, it didnt solve my problem. the fact that my cluster is dying i think is causing the code.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

got ya http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (Gaets)*

talked to c2 and they said it sounded like a diverter valve problem. i checked my dv and it was working fine. nothing changed when i took the car down the road. I tried putting the old version of the 30# software i have back in the car and it seemed to run fine other than running rich (my reason for upgrading to the new version of the 30# software)


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

i was told maybe DV also. so i took it apart and cleaned it up a little and regreased everything. same problem after i did that. 
i also took off and checked every hose and connection from the MAF to the intake manifold and checked all the vacum lines. i think the issue is electrical. and since we both got the VSS code intermittent whatever, i think the problem might be there..
this weekend im going to borrow another cluster with a working speedo but junk tach signal and see if a different cluster with a working speedo changes and gets rid of the code.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punk rock kiel* »_this weekend im going to borrow another cluster with a working speedo but junk tach signal and see if a different cluster with a working speedo changes and gets rid of the code.

let me know how that goes
i reset the ecu with the new 30# chip and now the car will idle fine but it still likes to buck/shudder when i have about 10-15% throttle applied whether its from a stand still of driving down the road.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gaets* »_
let me know how that goes
i reset the ecu with the new 30# chip and now the car will idle fine but it still likes to buck/shudder when i have about 10-15% throttle applied whether its from a stand still of driving down the road. 

that explains mine to the T. cause anything past that, it goes just fine and acts normal. mine shut off on me twice coasting down the side of the mountain and didnt wanna idle til i hit the gas once, then it came down to idle just fine.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punk rock kiel* »_that explains mine to the T. cause anything past that, it goes just fine and acts normal. mine shut off on me twice coasting down the side of the mountain and didnt wanna idle til i hit the gas once, then it came down to idle just fine. 

yeah its really wierd, what setup are you running?


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

obd2 vr 42# new stuff with cat, 02 and smog pump removed. 
v-2 with 3.125 pulley, 268 cams, genie header, 3in header back exhaust, high flow intake manifold. 
i didnt have this issue til i finally fixed everything. even with a massive exhaust leak in the header, the car still ran great. now that i fixed all the little issues, i got the electrical issue


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

the thing with mine is it seems to only happen with the new version of the 30# software


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

you said it started on the way home out of nowhere?? 
mine came out of the blue. and my A/F gauge just go nuts in that partial throttle area, only that little big. and it didnt do it before.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

well i really noticed it on the way home from a gtg but it i think it was doing it on the way there too i just wasnt really paying attention to it. then later on in the night when i drove it, it seemed to get worse


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

mine came on night and day. like a sensor died. but from time to time, it drives like OEM.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

mine sometmes comes and goes but i wouldnt say it drives like oem when its at its best


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## redskins98 (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: (Gaets)*

i had the same problems,jeff at C2 sent out 3 different chips and still ran like *******...i changed nothing but the softwear(ams) and all problems went away.C2 softwear is great on my vrt,but something about their softwear and S/C don't mix..good luck


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (redskins98)*

yeah i dont know what to do here, with the new c2 chip the car isnt even driveable.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

all the new software is either/or compatible. 
you can have an issue but not throw a code. ive hard this chip about half a year now and my CEL actually went OFF finally. for some reason some codes i had for a while WONT show them codes anymore for them. not with the 1552 tool or vag-com.
but if you have a code, fix it so it goes away and then go from there..


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

bump, the shuddering and hesitation when starting from a stop seemed to have gotten worse today when i drove the car, it was almost to the point where i couldnt even drive it. So i ended up putting my old 30# chip back in and the car ran fine again (no shudder hesitation, still rich as can be and bad mileage i would assume)


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (Gaets)*

Ok so this morning i put the original vr6 chip back in to see what codes came up because i had heard that with the c2 chip some codes dont come up. When i did this i got a these codes
16518 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: No Activity 
P0134 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16519 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1; Heating Circuit: Malfunction 
P0135 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
after lunch im going to check into it more and see if i can figure anything out.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Gaets* »_Ok so this morning i put the original vr6 chip back in to see what codes came up because i had heard that with the c2 chip some codes dont come up. When i did this i got a these codes
16518 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1: No Activity 
P0134 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
16519 - Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor B1 S1; Heating Circuit: Malfunction 
P0135 - 35-10 - - - Intermittent
after lunch im going to check into it more and see if i can figure anything out.

pretty much front O2 sensor is shot. but thats also a different chip that could NOT use the O2 sensor at all. 
if your feeling iffy, just replace the front O2 and put the new chip back in. a chip doesnt go from running normal to like crap out of nowhere. and no one else with a C2 chip has had any issues.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punk rock kiel* »_pretty much front O2 sensor is shot. but thats also a different chip that could NOT use the O2 sensor at all. 
if your feeling iffy, just replace the front O2 and put the new chip back in. a chip doesnt go from running normal to like crap out of nowhere. and no one else with a C2 chip has had any issues. 

well i talked to c2 this afternoon and told them the codes and they said that a bad o2 sensor shouldnt make it run the way mine is running. i vagcomed the car after i talked to them and i noticed that the throttle postition sensor was stuck at 77% and wouldnt move when i touched the throttle. im wondering if that could have anything to do with my problems.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

where did you look to see throttle position sensor? 
maybe it could just need cleanred and readapted...


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punk rock kiel* »_where did you look to see throttle position sensor? 
maybe it could just need cleanred and readapted...

on vagcom go to measuring blocks and you can see what all the sensors are reading.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

its just that i have no idea what mesuring block reads what cause everything is mk4 for what it tells you exactly. 
i havent found where it says mk3 and what block is what.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

if you go to advanced measuring blocks its easier because you can pick and choose which sensors you want to monitor


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

i see
i might be getting to mine on saturday. 
and now that i was thinking. i had an O2 code for the front O2 and i cleared it and it didnt come back. but i had my rear sensor plugged into the front plug dude to no bung in the genie header for an O2. then i switched back to the front after 3in exhaust


_Modified by punk rock kiel at 7:09 PM 3-13-2008_


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

yeah i only got the o2 sensor code with my stock ecu, i didnt get it with either c2 chip.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

i should be getting to it saturday.


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: (punk rock kiel)*

so today the car decided it didnt want to start







im pretty sure i has nothing to do with my chip issues though


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: (Gaets)*

hence why i say it isnt in the chip.


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad maf?? Supercharged OBD2 VR6 (Gaets)*

well as a start. i cleaned all the grounds and did battery voodoo. 
the grounds by the engine were terrible to say the least. rusted and prolly werent doing very good at all. 
i just cleaned another spot on the frame horn and got down to bare metal and drilled and bolted the grounds to another spot to get out of the cancer area.


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## 631 Corrado (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad ma ... (punk rock kiel)*

sorry to bring this from the dead but..... ive got almost the exact same problems... car doesnt idle after i drive it , it will idle when i first start it. it also has retarted amounts of bucking and heeitation. also when i move the trotttle it does not respond at all somtimes when its cold. i unplugged the maf today and started it up and it idled much better and it also did not buck or hessitate, but it still does not want to idle after i drive it for some reason.... is it possible the maf it to close??? i have the c2 cold air and everything... i guess i need to swap out a new maf or somthing.


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## redskins98 (Oct 6, 2005)

*Re: Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad ma ... (631 Corrado)*


_Quote, originally posted by *631 Corrado* »_sorry to bring this from the dead but..... ive got almost the exact same problems... car doesnt idle after i drive it , it will idle when i first start it. it also has retarted amounts of bucking and heeitation. also when i move the trotttle it does not respond at all somtimes when its cold. i unplugged the maf today and started it up and it idled much better and it also did not buck or hessitate, but it still does not want to idle after i drive it for some reason.... is it possible the maf it to close??? i have the c2 cold air and everything... i guess i need to swap out a new maf or somthing. 

move the MAf,


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## 631 Corrado (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad ma ... (redskins98)*

I DID IT SEEMS TO BE RUNNING BETTER NOW...THANK YOU


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad ma ... (631 Corrado)*

Seems you have found the problem but i figured i should say that i did end up fixing my problem by moving the maf. Car runs fine now.


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## viw28 (Oct 8, 2008)

*Re: Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad ma ... (Gaets)*

I'm having same problems as you had with yours on my'96 MK3 OBD2 VR6. Running Vortech V1, 440cc greens, 4" MAF, c2 software etc and have come to the conclusion that the maf is too close to the charger. I have tried changing everything else, coilpack, temp sender, plugs, leads, MAF itself, etc etc. I am getting similar fault codes to what you had as well. I don't know how to get the MAF further away without going to to a 2" pipe and taking it over to the gearbox side of the engine bay which surely would restrict air flow? Where and how far from charger did you relocate yours? Have you any pics?


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## Gaets (Feb 8, 2005)

*Re: Bucking, stalling at idle, hesitation off of idle...Bad ma ... (viw28)*

i dont have any pics but i ended up putting the maf under the frame rail right in front of the wheel liner.


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