# Another 8v Head Rebuild Thread



## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Another 8v Head Rebuild Thread (pics'o'plenty)*

Let me just start by saying that this thread has been inspired by others such as Mr. Black's bargain rebuild thread. The project itself is nearly 2 years in the making now. It has been dogged by a busy schedule and a general lack of cash flow. I don't have any before pics of the head but take my word when I say it was dirty! You couldn't touch it without getting a quarter inch of thick oily muck on your fingers. Now I have some time off work to do some of this stuff.
Here is what is on the agenda:
-new valve guides and seals
-mild port and polish done by yours truly
-milled .042" off the head by yours truly with the schools mill
-new HD valve springs
-TT 266 cam
-new lifters
-all new gaskets on the top end
-full tune up just for good measure
-new O2 sensor
-valves & valve seats cleaned up by my boss's uncle
-replace toilet bowl exhaust with factory dual downpipe
-new catalytic converter
-new Eurosport catback exhaust
-new rear motor mount
-new knock sensor
-redo ground wires
-TT (or equivalent) chip (still have to buy)
-possibly a ported intake manifold (we'll see how I feel tomorrow)
There's probably more but that's all I can remember right now.
On to the pics:
Here is a couple of the head before valve installation.
















A couple with valves for good measure.
















Here is the valve installation.
























A poor attempt at looking through the ports.








Mmmmmmmmm, Nice shiny new lifters.
















The head nearing completion.








A couple pics of the beast in question.
























I'll be back tomorrow with some updates.

_Modified by Cyrus #1 at 10:05 PM 9-24-2007_


_Modified by Cyrus #1 at 10:06 PM 9-24-2007_


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## Sn0wMaN (May 26, 2003)

Keep it up, 8v's rock! Not the fastest but very fun and reliable!


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (Sn0wMaN)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Sn0wMaN* »_Keep it up, 8v's rock! Not the fastest but very fun and reliable!

What he said! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Nice head rebuild.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

Thanks guys! Quick lunch time update:
The exhaust is now in a few pieces and out of the car. The head is also off. Also, as I suspected originally the cylinder walls look good. There is basically no ridge to speak of.
One thing I was going to do was install a block heater because the car has never had one. After I pull the head off I found it actually has a block heater, just no cord to plug it in.








Pictures will follow this evening.


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: Another 8v Head Rebuild Thread (Cyrus #1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Cyrus #1* »_Let me just start by saying that this thread has been inspired by others such as Mr. Black's bargain rebuild thread. 
\
Awww








Good stuff man, hope it turns out well. These 8v's are pretty cheap and fun to work on.


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Nice rebuild - I like the valve seats http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Nice rebuild - I like the valve seats http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks, I'm quite happy with how they turned out as well. All in all today was a fairly successful venture. Pictures will be up shortly. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Here are today's pictures: I got the exhaust out.








I got the old head out as well. I was quite relieved to see that everything on the bottom end looks good.
















I think these ramps are possibly the best things I've ever constructed. I'm 6'5" and it's nearly impossible to work on a VW without the front end up like this. We also have a set of metal ramps but these ones take the cake.








Here is the dual downpipe all ready to go after fighting a couple of broken studs. Also shown is the new cat and O2 sensor. Can anybody tell me if I need one of those sealing rings to go between these two?








A while ago I purchased a new rear motor mount because I suspected mine was worn out. I didn't expect it to be actually broken though.








I also installed a block heater to deal with the cold winter days. The fuel rail and injectors are all cleaned up and have new o-rings. Tomorrow I will try to install my new USRT shift linkage before re-assembly begins.











_Modified by Cyrus #1 at 8:17 PM 9-25-2007_


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## The_Hamster (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Were the valve stem seals installed before you pushed the valves in? If so there is a decent chance you damaged them. They should be installed after the valve is pushed through the guide, and the valve stem should be protected with some tap etc around the keeper grooves to keep the seals from being torn/damaged.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (The_Hamster)*

The valve seals were installed using the process you described hamster. I ended up using a pen lid to get the seals over the keeper grooves. The lid I found had no ridges and was the perfect size. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Issam Abed (Feb 12, 2004)

*Re: (The_Hamster)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The_Hamster* »_If so there is a decent chance you damaged them.

Not necessarily true.Stop trying to scare the lads...
The keeper grooves are not knives and the valve seals are not made of butter.


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

If you don't me saying so but it looks like you could use a intake thats ported..


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Not necessarily true.Stop trying to scare the lads...
The keeper grooves are not knives and the valve seals are not made of butter.









Thank you.....I sure didn't put them on that way the other guy said. I had the new seals installed first, then eased the valves in gently, coated the ends in fresh motor oil and pushed/rotated them through the seals gently.


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (Mr Black)*

Oh and those DIY ramps are amazing! THink I'll be doing that this weekend after a quick trip to Home Depot


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## B166eR - VW (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (Mr Black)*

I want to do much of the same thing to a 86 GLI head I just picked up at a junk yard. Came with the dual outlet exhaust mani and downpipe. Question for you, I have considered milling the head, as well as using a group A head gasket. You said you milled .042. How much will that raise compression? Or was that just a minimum to give you a nice flat surface?


_Modified by B166eR - VW at 3:26 PM 9-26-2007_


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## The_Hamster (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: (Wizard-of-OD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Wizard-of-OD* »_
Not necessarily true.Stop trying to scare the lads...
The keeper grooves are not knives and the valve seals are not made of butter.









All true, I never said there was certainty that they were damaged. The main point is that it's an unnecessary risk that is completely avoidable.


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (B166eR - VW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *B166eR - VW* »_You said you milled .042. How much will that raise compression? Or was that just a minimum to give you a nice flat surface?


Def. not the minimum...40 thou is a fairly aggressive shave. SHOULD raise your compression to around 11:1 on a hi-comp counterflow 8v head, give or take. To determine this precisely you need to cc your chambers, or for a good estimate you need to search for a few threads in this sub-forum where the topic has been discussed a few times. 
My target was 11:1 with my 0.040" decking. Gonna become a loyal Sunoco 94 customer once again


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## B166eR - VW (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (Mr Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Black* »_Def. not the minimum...40 thou is a fairly aggressive shave. SHOULD raise your compression to around 11:1 on a hi-comp counterflow 8v head, give or take. To determine this precisely you need to cc your chambers, or for a good estimate you need to search for a few threads in this sub-forum where the topic has been discussed a few times. 
My target was 11:1 with my 0.040" decking. Gonna become a loyal Sunoco 94 customer once again








Wow







that's awesome... Good you can get 94. I'd have to keep 20 gallons of race gas in my garage and mix with every fill up.








Hate to threadjack here but, what would be the maximum compression, on an 8V, you could go with and still comfortably use 87 octane? 91 octane?
I don't want to sacrifice economy too much on my build.


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (B166eR - VW)*

Dunno....I find my STOCK 10:1 Digi is happier with 89 than with 87. A little less clatter accelerating from under 3k rpm. So I would say any decking (beyond just a 'resurface') you'd probably want to step up to 89 or 91. 
That's my experience though, YMMV.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_If you don't me saying so but it looks like you could use a intake thats ported..









I don't mind you saying so but I already asked you in your "6whp intake manifold" thread. You said that you don't do MKII manifolds.







So it kind of looks like I'm on my own.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Mr Black)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mr Black* »_Dunno....I find my STOCK 10:1 Digi is happier with 89 than with 87. A little less clatter accelerating from under 3k rpm. So I would say any decking (beyond just a 'resurface') you'd probably want to step up to 89 or 91.

One thing to note about my project that I forgot to mention is that the previous owner of my car had to change out the bottom end of the engine. I always knew this but didn't realize until a little while ago that the bottom end is from an MZ engine. That means that it's 9:1 compression. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif The .042" shave I took was mostly to get me back to where I should be. I would prefer to not have to run premium.


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## 89wolfsburg (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

http://www.evanscooling.com/articles/oct93ec.htm


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (89wolfsburg)*

Does anybody have any experience with Evans coolant? I've always been interested but haven't talked to anybody who has used it.
Today was spent largely running around town picking up parts, cleaning stuff and fighting with the shift linkage kit.
I will post some pictures in a while.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

So I got up this morning look forward to a nice sunny 7 or 8 kilometer walk across town to pick up some parts. Unfortunately I was greeted by this.
















After I got back the plan was to install the USRT shift linkage kit that I purchased. Here is the before picture.








I can't say that I've been too pleased with the kit so far. I've had to sand down some of the bushings to make them work. Here are the parts cleaned up and ready for installation.








The other big thing on the agenda was to get the parts I will be re-using cleaned up. Here is the intake manifold before and after cleaning. I know it's not exactly a mirror finish but it still took a lot of elbow grease.
















Also, a new (to me) valve cover that still has paint on it. This should look a lot better than the ugly rusty one I have now.








Tomorrow I plan to finish the shift linkage installation, prep the block, and then begin re-assembling the motor. With any luck I'll hopefully be driving tomorrow.










_Modified by Cyrus #1 at 9:51 PM 9-26-2007_


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Update: It's all back together but it doesn't run. I'm went through the cam and ignition timing several times and was positive they are correct. After that failed I did a compression test. 
The results are as follows:
90-0-120-120
My biggest fear is that the valve seats being ground is not allowing the valves to close properly. However I just pulled the cam out to have a look and I don't think the lifters are functioning correctly. Half of them have a nice springy action and half of them are solid as rock. The pattern even seems to match my compression problems. 
The pattern looks like this:
(stiff-soft)(stiff-stiff)(soft-soft)(stiff-soft)
Does anybody think that these lifters could be the source of my problems? They have been sitting on my shelf for almost a year but were stored upside down. Is there anything I can do to free them up before I pull the head?


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## The_Hamster (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Are the valves sticking? Do you have a leakdown tester?


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

I heard that soaking them upside down in oil gets them filled.
I'd suggest taking the problem lifters out an put them in oil over night.
Or better yet soak all of them, and swap the problem ones with a different cylinder.
Worked for me.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (The_Hamster)*

The valves were all moving nicely when the head was assembled. I just checked and they all still move quite nicely. I don't have a leakdown tester at my disposal. Perhaps I could tee in and use my compression tester somehow?


_Modified by Cyrus #1 at 7:34 PM 9-28-2007_


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_I heard that soaking them upside down in oil gets them filled.
I'd suggest taking the problem lifters out an put them in oil over night.
Or better yet soak all of them, and swap the problem ones with a different cylinder.
Worked for me.

I will give that a try. What do you make of the ones that have no movement? It seems to me that they could be holding the valves open as they seem to be stuck in the fully extended position. It seems that half of them are functioning as solid lifters. These are brand new Meyle units.


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## The_Hamster (Jul 31, 2000)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

You can try and leave it overnight etc and see if the lifters just need to be bled down.
Otherwise ensure your valves are seating properly, and there isn't something stupid going on.
You can have somebody turn it by hand and listen, you may be able to hear the "leak".


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## 1.8TRabbit (Nov 15, 2004)

Believe it or not! Now that I have done a 1.8t swap in my rabbit, etc.. I actually wish I would of put all the sweat and tears and $$ into a stock 8vT setup!








I LOOOOVE 8v's!!


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (The_Hamster)*

Sure rotating by hand with the spark plug out finger over the spark plug hole and with the cam off will tell you if the valve is closed or not.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

The lifters have soaked in clean oil all night. Nothing has changed. Half of them are still nice and soft. The other half are still solid. I think I'm going to try mixing the lifters up and then doing another compression test.


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Here is what I'd do with the hard lifters
use a c clamp and squeeze them a little to make sure oil is comming out of the hold in the side. and free them up.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

A thousand thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I just tried the C-clamp method and now all of the lifters are nice and springy. Three of them were so stiff I could barely loosen them up with a 4" C-clamp. I can definitely picture them holding the valves open.
Up next is take two of trying to make it go.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Update: It finally runs!!!








Just got it fired after fixing a few problems. After fixing the sticky lifters I had to go back to work so progress slowed drastically. Tonight I got the rest back together for a test run. I had to buy a battery charger to get it to go. 
I guess the increased compression as well as sitting for a while just prevented it from firing the first couple times. After firing the charger onto "start" mode I gave the throttle a little prod and she fired right up.


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Good for you.
Glad the lifter C clamp trick worked.


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## Mr Black (Jan 20, 2002)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Congrats dude. I am still in assembly hell here.... see my thread for the latest sad story


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Mr Black)*

Thanks guys.







Now I just have to install the exhaust and adjust the shift linkage and I should be good to go.


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## Cyrus #1 (Sep 29, 2005)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Things took a turn for the worse today.







I finished up the exhaust install and fired it up again. There was a pronounced misfire the entire time it ran.
I pulled plug wires and determined that cylinder #2 is the culprit. I checked the timing and it's reasonably close. I then did a compression test and discovered that cylinder #2 only developed about 60 psi.








Is there anywhere that I should start to look?


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (Cyrus #1)*

Still an lifter issue ?
how is the oil pressure ?


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## Aurora_GL (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

well putting compressed air in the #2 at TDC should give you an idea if its leaking out the intake, exaust valves, or the crank case (listen to dipstick hole) then i would say your timing has to be made dead on. did you check compression before the rebuild? did you rock the pistions to see if they were tight enough befre the head build?


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## B166eR - VW (Dec 11, 2003)

*Re: (Aurora_GL)*

I'm guessing a lifter issue.... Valve stuck open?? Or, you could have done what I did once and slightly bent a valve putting the head on... Not sure how we did it, but it happened and it stuck open...
Good luck man.


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## Aurora_GL (Aug 10, 2004)

*Re: (B166eR - VW)*

well other then lifters should not stick and cause major issues like compression loss for any real reason, even a collaped lifter will let the valves close cuz the springs do that part and get compression. maybe im wrong??


_Modified by Aurora_GL at 12:35 PM 11-6-2007_


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