# 01192 - Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch



## CrispyVW (Feb 15, 2011)

So my wifes 2002 Eurovan with 159,000 miles recently started storing this code (in Address 02: Auto Trans)

01192 - Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch 
04-10 - Mechanical Malfunction - Intermittent

I'll call the Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch TCCLUC from her on.

It did not turn on CEL and other than bad MPG (low teens) it does not exhibit any drivability issues. It shifts ok whenever i drive it. My wife uses it around town only and we live in steep hills so the poor MPG hasn't surprised me. On steep hills when really hot she says it revs up w/o accelerating (slipping?) but hasn't done it for me. Maybe not related? I dunno.

For anyone with experience in these matters any help is greatly appreciated.

- If i keep driving it will it do further damage? (as long as it's good around town then i'm fine)
- Could it be a simple fix? (repairable w/o removing transmission)

From my limited understanding of torque converter lock up clutch i suspect it could be...
- maybe signal not reaching solenoid valve to actuate the TCCLUC
- maybe solenoid valve not functioning to actuate the TCCLUC
- maybe solenoid valve is functioning, but there is not sufficient pressure to actuate the TCCLUC
- from what i read it sounds like the TCCLUC is a reliable part of the system and that the failure is in the actuation side of the system.

I've already braced myself for the inevitable (transmission replacement) but figured i'd canvass the VW/Audi community first

I've done all maintenance up until now (motor mounts, brakes, ball joints, inner/outer tie rod ends, water pump, heater core, door latch mechanisms, heater mixer flap actuator motor, CV joint boots, secondary air injection pump, O2 sensor, plastic water pipe and thermostat housing, brake booster, temp sensors,alternator, ignition switch)....MAN it's been a long road!! I still like this van over the alternative.. new Odyssey or Sienna...no thanks! My wife calls then large station wagons.

thanks in advance for any support/commisseration. 

CrispyVW


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## filmshoot (Jan 7, 2015)

Sorry man... This is what prompted me to do a tdi 5sp swap

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## jjvincent (Dec 8, 2003)

It's either:

1. TCC Solenid stuck or not working
2. Wore out Valve Body
3. Torque converter clutch wore out

These were put in the order of cheapest to most expensive.


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## filmshoot (Jan 7, 2015)

Try to replace the fluid and filter and the solenoid ribbon

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## CrispyVW (Feb 15, 2011)

*thanks filmshoot and jjvincent for responses.*

It's drivable for now so i'm limiting intervention to things i can do w/o removing the transmission. 

I just changed the filter/oil and so far i haven't seen the code again, but all driving has been around the neighborhood (not getting into 4th gear when the TCLUC locks)

I'll keep monitoring the transmission computer to see if it stores the codes again. 

I may change out the ribbon and maybe the solenoid if the codes come back. There's like 6 solenoids in there (and a temp sensor?) and i'm not quite sure which is fo TCLUC.

Monitoring transmission vital signs for the time being.... and preparing for the inevitable transmission swap.

I've read lots about transmissions wearing out but nobody talks about the Torque Converter (and it's integral Lock Up Clutch).... Do people typicall replace or not replace the TC when installing a 'new' transmission? I expect the torque converter portion of the TC assembly to be very reliable, but I suspect that the Lock Up Clutch part of the TC falls into the category of things likely to have issues on high mileage cars.

Looking for any opinions/input on this topic too.

THANKS,
CrispyVW


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## jjvincent (Dec 8, 2003)

A bad ribbon will trip a fault code (just depends on what's broke). Plus the temp sensor is integrated into the ribbon.


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## jets (Oct 12, 2005)

When I owned an auto many years ago a fault code came up relating to the torque converter, can't remember what it was. The van seemed to drive fine so I ignored it.
For a short time before I sold it [I wanted a manual] I would get this vibration that was like driving on a washboard & then stop soon after. I thought at the time it was a worn shock. but when I removed it
it was fine. I even asked my son to take a look & he agreed with me. It was well after selling the van that I read about this same symptom from another forum member. It was caused by a worn bush in the TC.
Later I was talking to a guy who worked in a machine shop where they reconditioned torque converters. The TC is cut in half in a lathe, the worn bush removed & new one turned up & installed. The two halves 
are then rewelded back together. They were doing lots of them he told me. 
I am not saying that's your problem but thought I would mention it to add to the knowledge on this forum.


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## CrispyVW (Feb 15, 2011)

Thank you for the contibution (jets). Always good to corral our experiences. I haven't had a shudder so I'm good on that. Torque converters are very interesting critters.

Good news is that it's been over 100 miles and the code hasn't been stored. I guess the key word in the code text is 'intermittent'. Fingers crossed it's gone away.

THanks for the info (jjvincent) on the temp sensor. If the codes resume i'll change the harness (with integral temp sensor) along with the solenoid that engages the TCLUC. I still need to identify which of the many solenoids is the TCLUC solenoid. I suspect that there may be other components in the valve body that could be suspect but i'm only speculating here. I saw a 4 part video on youtube where a guy removes the valve body and replaces/services just about all elements of the valve body. I have it bookmarked on my other computer, so I'll post the link when i get home. It was very well done.

The transmission is good otherwise. I'll have a party if it makes it to 200k miles! (43k to go)

THANKS FOR THE INPUT!!!!!!!!

CrispyVW


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## Xtremjeepn (Jan 9, 2005)

This is a very common problem across VW/Audi cars in the early 2000's. 

There is a tiny nickel sized seal in the torque converter that simply wears through. It then bleeds off pressure and can't lock up. 


The solution is a new torque converter. Since the seal, at least when we did the job in 2004, wasn't available. We had to have a custom seal made to build a custom TC for an Audi S4. (back then the bad seal was tan and the updated one was blue, FWIW, Just in case you ever get to take a deep peek into your TC)


The *good news* is that its not really an immediately fatal issue. Automatic transmissions were made for over 40 years without "lock up". The ONLY thing the lock up clutch does is lock the TC to a 1:1 ratio when "CRUISING" on the highway. If you offer ANY throttle input or coast it will unlock. I drove around with a VAG-COM for weeks monitoring the behavior of these in different cars to fully understand what we were dealing with. 

The lock up function is simply there to reduce fuel consumption and heat. The transmission will run just a touch cooler with it locked up, but like I said, unless you are under steady state cruising its not locked up. 

As others have noted, there are some other things that can cause the same issue.


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## qval (Sep 11, 2007)

*TCC lockup is necessary for low enough ATF temps*

Hi Cole, 

I disagree that the TCC lockup is unnecessary for two reasons:

1) if the TC is slipping all the time, the ATF gets very hot very quickly, and the tiny ATF cooler stock on these vans is inadequate to remove the heat and it gets to 120 or 130C very quickly, which will quickly kill the rest of the transmission

and 2) If the TCC is supposed to be locked, and then it slips, you are wearing away the clutch and putting crud in your ATF. This is not a good way to have a long lasting 01p.


All that said, I think the intermittent nature of OP's problem means it's nothing to worry about. If you go through the measure groups on VCDS, you can see the ATF temp in group 5, and one of the others shows the TC slip in RPM. When the TCC is active, that RPM value will be roughly +/- 60 rpm. When it is unlocked, (and the gear indicated in one of the other groups is hydraulic 2H 3H 4H, not mechanical, 2M, 3M, 4M) the value will vary with engine load but go up to 600 RPM and beyond. You'll also notice that the ATF temp will climb quite quickly when this occurs. You'll want to manually switch from D to 3 when this happens to keep the TCC locked up (and keep going down to 2 if the steepness of the hill demands it). This takes some observation of what the tranny is doing, but eventually you can notice when the TCC unlocks (RPMs go up but not a full gear shift, I think of it as a half shift).


I had this 01192 fault about 6 years ago. I think you can do a super slight kerma mod (kermamod? google audi kermamod, there's a pressure adjustment screw on the side of the valvebody, that you turn with a 5mm stubby allen key, 2-3 clicks ought to do it). I have never had it reoccur, but I also changed the ATF and filter at the time, and have been more frequent with it since then. I've added about 70k miles since then

If I were OP, i would change the ATF and not do the kerma mod until the problem reoccurs


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## Xtremjeepn (Jan 9, 2005)

The big problem with your theory is that the torque converter is designed to slip and isn't made up of "clutches". So it's not wearing them out. It's a fluid coupler made up of opposing fan blades. 

The temp rise when not locked up is minimal. As I mentioned before auto transmissions were manufactured without a lockup function for 40+ years


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## qval (Sep 11, 2007)

It's designed to slip when in hydraulic mode, when the TC clutch is unlocked. but when it's locked in mechanical mode, it shouldn't be slipping. If it is, you're wearing on the TC lock-out clutch. It's right there in the fault code: "01192 - Torque Converter Lock-Up Clutch." Yeah the TC is just a hydraulic coupling, but the TCC is a clutch, and slipping clutches are bad.

With regard for heating up the fluid, when my van shifts from 4M to 4H driving up a long hill, the atf temp in group 5 will climb about 5C per minute. And it will happily stay in that 4H gear for the entire hill. If it was at 105C before the half downshift, it'll be at 125 in 4 minutes. That's not my idea of minimal, so I try to downshift to 3M ASAP. I feel like driving up I-70 is similar to my climbs over the Sierra, so I don't see how our experiences are so different. Maybe my 140 hp 12 valve vr6 is much less powerful than your 201 hp 24 valve. But if the grade causes me to slow from 85 to 60, the TCC will unlock into hydraulic mode and start to roast the ATF.


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## CrispyVW (Feb 15, 2011)

posted accidentally before I could finish!!! I'm thinking of getting a "SCANGAUGE" display so I can watch transmission temps.


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## CrispyVW (Feb 15, 2011)

*Transmission is doing well...*

several hundred miles w/o posting the TCLUC error codes. I check every couple days. 

the van rarely sees 4th gear so I'm sure that helps. 

As always I appreciate seeing topic relevant banter. Thanks all for sharing your experiences/opinions. We all benefit.

CrispyVW


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## filmshoot (Jan 7, 2015)

If it's heat related then an aftermarket transmission cooler may help

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## CrispyVW (Feb 15, 2011)

*transmission concern back-burnered for now*

the TCLUC situation hasn't changed and wife only drives local so for the time being I'll move on to other failures....

The interior climate control fan(s) have stopped working.... Definitely the one that directs air through the under-dash heater core. I still hear a blowing sound in the rear but I only get hot air (it's winter so I'm in heater mode) coming out of the floor duct in the rear areas (floor duct just inside the sliding side door). No air coming out of the rear ceiling vents. Also when I first start the van the dash mounted climate control computer/display flashes a bunch of times (about 25) before displaying normal. MORE FUN.


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## filmshoot (Jan 7, 2015)

You gotta count the flashes and look up the error code

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