# Weak hill-hold in park with DSG



## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

This has been covered peripherally before, but I thought it worthwhile to post on it.
I have not been using the parking break on gentle slopes. Though I now understand that the manual indicates to always use it.
First I was noticing that the car would roll up to around 6 inches before being stopped by the transmission. Recently though, I found that it might not stop but continue to roll downhill with a ticking sound as something tried to catch in the transmission.








I told our service manager, and he seemed to suggest that this was normal for a DSG and it is not a automatic and has something different than a pawl gear. I am dubious about his answer and it being "normal". I will take it in again to demonstrate the rolling.
Has anyone else found that the DSG would not hold the car on a fairly gentle slope? I also hope that there is no serious damage, I am always using the parking brake now.
Thanks,
Paul


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## ashbinder (Nov 27, 2006)

*Re: Weak hill-hold in park with DSG (Grinder)*

That is not normal. I always use the parking brake now, after finding that the DSG behaves more like a manual in park. Even the slightest incline lets the car roll, which puts stress on the parking pin.
However, when I don't use the parking brake and try to park on an incline...it will roll a bit and lock...very abruptly, I might add. But, it ALWAYS catches. For it to keep rolling...that is not normal for me.


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## solarflare (Mar 28, 2007)

*Re: Weak hill-hold in park with DSG (Grinder)*

That doesn't sound right to me either. Mine does not move in park that I've noticed but then again I always use the parking brake. Try a search in the DSG forum or ask this question there. You might get better results.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zeroforum?id=988


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

You may have damaged the transmission from the times you did not use the parking brake.
How do you park the car now? The proper way is to hold the brake pedal down, pull up the parking brake (tight enough to hold the car), shift into park, and then finally release the brake pedal. Doing it this way makes sure the brakes are holding the car and not the transmission. If you feel the car rock back or move after you've done this, then you did not do it right.


_Modified by owr084 at 10:47 AM 6-14-2008_


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## callmeal (Sep 8, 2006)

*Re: Weak hill-hold in park with DSG (Grinder)*

Grinder
The 2007/2008 EOS with DSG does not have a hill hold feature I wish it did. The rumor is it will be available with the 2009 models.
Allen


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Weak hill-hold in park with DSG (callmeal)*

Paul,
There seems to be some lack of clarity surrounding your problem.
I interpreted your post to mean the DSG is allowing the car to roll backward more than it used to, and is now making a noise, when transmission is in DRIVE and the car is on a slope.
Seems some members have interpreted it to mean your park lock mechanism is not holding when the transmission is in PARK and the car is on a slope.
Which is correct?
FYI, I have not experienced any difficulty with our DSG to date.
My experience is when I first put the transmission in gear, it will roll back 6-12 inches when I release the brake, if I'm on a slope. But once the transmission is engaged (i.e. if I come to a stop wihile driving) the DSG seems to hold OK on minor inclines.
Kevin 
*EDIT:* Just noticed that your topic title indicates the car is in PARK


_Modified by just4fun at 4:00 PM 6-15-2008_


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

There is no device in the transmission that can hold the car motionless all by itself and do it safely. "Always apply the parking brake fully, especially when parking on a slope..." (book 3.1, p 113). In fact, I cannot find anything in the manual that says go ahead and just put it in Park and forget about using the parking brake...
Those of you who do not use the parking brake or don't pull it tight enough, are just asking for trouble on a safety level and on damage to your transmission.


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Weak hill-hold in park with DSG (solarflare)*

While not normally one to promote lawyers stickers, but if the hold of park is so weak that a parking brake has to always be used, this should be more prominent than in a manual. 
I did not see this issue on the DSG board, but may post there.
Possibly coincidence, but I have only noticed it rolling forward, and since then have been good with parking brake. Once it was on slope so gentle I had to look carefully to see it.
On order of parking brake engagement. I pull the parking brake while the foot brake still depressed. I do not remember whether I shift to P first or do this while still in drive. 
EDIT I see that OWNR084 has a slightly different method that looks even more careful; I will try to get into that habit.
-thanks for your replies, and the information that rolling easily (without catching) is not normal.
Paul


_Modified by Grinder at 2:23 PM 6-16-2008_


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## ialonso (Aug 26, 2006)

I would agree with the previous poster. Park has always done the best effort to hold the car, even at the expense of the tranny.
If not park, then label the button "Not Park" !
My understanding of this from my short experience in cars is as follows:
The parking brake is used to avoid that hardness in getting out of park since the car was leaning on the pin HARD; and for extra safety in case something malfunctions in the transmission, (Say the transmission jumps out of oark because it was not fully engaged) but never because the transmission could not hold the car. In fact, my understanding is that park is supposed to hold the car. Otherwise Neutral would be enough.
Having said this, I noticed from day one that DSG was different, and that the car does move much more than others in Park, so I ALWAYS use the parking brake.


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## owr084 (Nov 15, 2004)

One more reason to use a parking brake - it will self adjust the pads or shoes as they wear down. If you don't use the parking brake, the gap between the pads & rotor or shoes and drum will widen and affect the performance of the rear brakes.


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## kluski44 (Jun 11, 2007)

Doesn't the parking brake reduce the pressure and therefore wear & tear on the pin
My mother-in-law knew a guy who was killed because the pin broke and the car rolled and pinned him against a wall. The mechanic said the pin broke because parking on hills without the parking brake caused too much long term pressure on the pin and it eventually snapped. Of course they were bigger hills and what one mechanic said.


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## Grinder (Feb 6, 2004)

*Re: Weak hill-hold in park with DSG (Grinder)*

Update.
The dealership looked at it, agreed that there was a warranty problem, and ordered a replacement unit. 
A VW rep came up from Toronto to have a look at it. Apparently it was the first DSG observed with this issue. They sent it back to Germany for more testing. I guess that it could be quite dangerous if parked cars start rolling around; shades of the Audi gas pedal kafuffle.
I guess the new one works better but I am always using the parking brake now
Paul


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## just4fun (Oct 29, 2006)

*Re: Weak hill-hold in park with DSG (Grinder)*

Good to hear VW came through with a new trans for you, and that your Eos is 100% again. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Kevin


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