# I got five on it (500+whp pump gas vrt)



## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

Just got back from the dyno with a vr6 turbo. Basic setup -
T67 .8x hotside
ATP exhaust manifold
3" dp and exhaust
Schimmel SRI
Schimmel air to water
DTA Pro8
Sunoco 93 pump gas 
21 pounds of boost
Dyno Dynamics in Shootout 6f mode
Air in the dyno bay was up around 100 degrees for most of the pulls. Even with the air to water the IAT's were getting up there. Still made pretty good power - 513whp was the peak on the last pull. Graph below - it held power all the way to 7500 even though the chart only shows it going to 7250. Not sure why as on the dyno computer it showed it going to 7500 but its a quirk I have noticed when printing sheets from this dyno. 








Pretty happy with the power for pump gas and a reasonable boost level. Thanks to my brother for tickling the keys while I drove the car on the dyno. Just wish my car had a power knob like this thing does.


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## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

nice bro 
now we need some vids of this beast


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

rad.


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## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

Awesome job as always, gonna be KOTS now for sure.


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## 05JettaGLXVR6 (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: I got five on it (bonesaw)*

I got scared for a moment i thought you went to the dark side.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: I got five on it (05JettaGLXVR6)*

What's that on a Dynojet 750whp?







Dyno Dynamics is a hearbreaker I tuned an n/a VR6 on one a few months ago for a whopping 141whp.


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## BORA RKT (Oct 2, 2004)

*Re: I got five on it (need_a_VR6)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## big byrd (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: I got five on it (BORA RKT)*

cool beans...can't wait to get a ride (drive







)


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## ade007 (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif what cams do you have ?


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

500 on pump is my goal as well, great job!!


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## GTI451 (Oct 4, 2001)

*Re: I got five on it (The Yoda)*

Awesome work guys! Definitely need to get a ride this year http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Time to bump those sig numbers Yoda!


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## vlkslvr (Dec 5, 2000)

*Re: I got five on it (GTI451)*

Bump for 12v power.
Next time throw some race gas in and really let her rip.


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## big byrd (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: I got five on it (vlkslvr)*

hopefully you will be "tickling some keys" on a 24v in the spring.....


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: I got five on it (big byrd)*

need some videos of this beast man that is sick


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## vdubspeed88 (Oct 5, 2004)

*Re: I got five on it (DaBeeterEater)*

sounds pretty much like my setup but air to air.. I have the .84 t4


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## jhayesvw (Oct 3, 2001)

*Re: I got five on it (vdubspeed88)*

those are VERY nice numbers for 21psi!
way to go


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: I got five on it (jhayesvw)*

Thanks. While its still a pretty simple setup it wasn't thrown together over night. Car previously made [email protected] on the same dyno a while back. Few changes and tweaks and the boost turned up and it made the above. Even crazier than the peak number is the power curve. The car just pulls and pulls all the way to redline.


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## lap (Nov 20, 2005)

nice, comp ratio?


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## dubdoor (Apr 23, 2006)

*Re: (lap)*

do the axis labels not state *flywheel* power and *flywheel* torque...?
if so, this is ~450whp...


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: (dubdoor)*

Good catch - thats a glitch in the dyno software - just like DynaPack's label the chart in flywheel but in reality the numbers are at the hub. I have no reason to believe these numbers are anything but at the wheel despite what the chart may say. The numbers might be hard for some to swallow but they show what a difference parts selection, tuning, and the willingness to try more than combination can make. As this is a street car the owner's goal all along was to make good pump gas power and the combo was tailored to do just that. 
As for compression ratio I don't know for sure as the motor was in the car when the current owner bought it but I believe it to be 8.5:1 +/- whatever difference the "stock" thickness metal spacer makes.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: (vw1320)*

what's the correction factor? that'll tell us if it's wheel or crank.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

so this is whats kept you guys busy








do mine next!


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: I got five on it (-THROTTLE-)*

You are next man but I don't think we will see this kind of power







I am sure you will be happy though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
No correction factor - its not like a dynojet or other dyno's where you can apply different cf's and fudge the numbers. In shootout mode the DynoDynamics is pretty much locked and you can't mess with the numbers. It makes what it makes and that is it.


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## FaelinGL (Nov 28, 2004)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

Nice numbers. What's in the block?
Mike


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## MrMoon (Dec 23, 2008)

*Re: I got five on it (FaelinGL)*

yea built bottom end?
what kind of cams?
and any water meth?


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## eastcoastbumps (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: I got five on it (MrMoon)*

I'm not 100% positive, but I think shoot out mode gives results in a calculated flywheel horsepower, not wheel horsepower.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

*Re: I got five on it (eastcoastbumps)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eastcoastbumps* »_I'm not 100% positive, but I think shoot out mode gives results in a calculated flywheel horsepower, not wheel horsepower. 

since it's not capable of measuring flywheel horsepower, and could only estimate it, this would not make sense for shoot out mode (which is a mode without operator correction factor).


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## eastcoastbumps (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: I got five on it (TBT-Syncro)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TBT-Syncro* »_
since it's not capable of measuring flywheel horsepower, and could only estimate it, this would not make sense for shoot out mode (which is a mode without operator correction factor).









Ok, so I went back and did a little research. There are two different shootout modes. s_hp and hp. S_hp is calculated flywheel horsepower. Hp is wheel horsepower. Both s_hp and hp lock out the operator correction factor, its just that one will give you a higher number than the other. You have to plug in how many cylinders, FWD/RWD/AWD and if it has forced induction. The dyno factors all this out to give you an estimated (but calculated and repeatable) flywheel hp in s_hp shootout mode and and true wheel horsepower in hp shootout mode.
Here is _one_ graph shown in both s_hp and hp. 
S_HP (look at the top left of the graph)








HP


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: I got five on it (eastcoastbumps)*

Notice how the graphs you posted look nothing like the one I did? The ones you posted, and the information you found, are from the older Dos based Dyno Dynamics. The dyno used was a newer Windows based one that actually has several shootout modes - hence the notation that it was in Shootout 6f. The only thing the operator enters is what mode to use - everything else is locked down. I have to give you credit for doing your research and not just blindly accepting something as fact but you are barking up the wrong tree. 
I am not here to argue dyno readouts. Every dyno reads different and you can spend months arguing which one is "right". Your belief or not will do nothing to change the power this car produced. I realize its higher than average but the setup isn't your average setup either. The owner actually took the time and money to try more than one combo to reach his goals. 
Look at this way - 450 wtq is no big deal for a pump gas vr6. Heck plenty of chipped cars with small turbos make that easily. Thats all this car makes. 
Gas was straight 93 octane from the local Sunoco as stated in the first post. 
As for specs that weren't listed it was for a reason. The devil, as they say, is in the details.







Everything is for sale for the right price though










_Modified by vw1320 at 1:59 AM 8-18-2009_


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_As for specs that weren't listed it was for a reason. The devil, as they say, is in the details.







Everything is for sale for the right price though









aint that the truth


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## eastcoastbumps (Jun 28, 2002)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eastcoastbumps* »_You have to plug in how many cylinders, FWD/RWD/AWD...


_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_Notice how the graphs you posted look nothing like the one I did? The ones you posted, and the information you found, are from the older Dos based Dyno Dynamics. The dyno used was a newer Windows based one that actually has several shootout modes - hence the notation that it was in Shootout 6f. 
 
You will also see that those 'old' graphs have Shootout8 in the correction factor, for an 8 cylinder car. 

_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_I am not here to argue dyno readouts. Every dyno reads different and you can spend months arguing which one is "right". Your belief or not will do nothing to change the power this car produced. I realize its higher than average but the setup isn't your average setup either. The owner actually took the time and money to try more than one combo to reach his goals. 
Look at this way - 450 wtq is no big deal for a pump gas vr6. Heck plenty of chipped cars with small turbos make that easily. Thats all this car makes. 
Gas was straight 93 octane from the local Sunoco as stated in the first post. 
As for specs that weren't listed it was for a reason. The devil, as they say, is in the details.







Everything is for sale for the right price though










I never said it was high, or low, or in between, just that I thought the graph that says 'Flywheel HP' could actually be calculated flywheel hp in this case. I went and double checked, and then said it can be either wheel or flywheel depending on the mode. I don't own one of these dynos so I don't know what you can and cannot do with the new software.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

It's hard not to make power with a turbo vr, not secret sauce here.
As for power, just put it on a dynojet and no one will argue.


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

Side note, dyno dynamics have been known to read the lowest out of them all, but i wouldn't know if this graph is an estimated flywheel number or not so I won't get into it. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## obd2vr6 (Jul 7, 2006)

wow so many haters on here


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## snobum (Dec 16, 2005)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

congrats!!!
now get out there and race some ishes .. dyno's show numbers but the excitement comes on the street..







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 1SlowSLC (May 4, 2003)

can you tell us any more about your setup? 
injector size? meth injection? cams?
Ive been told by a reputable source that around 15psi is the limit for 93 pump. So I guess you've just established 20psi is possible with a really good tune.. I'm looking forward to making 500 wheel when my car is done, cuz our setups are similar but Im using a t70. 
Congrats on the dyno, post some videos or pictures please


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (1SlowSLC)*

cool numbers http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*

Thanks.
Not my car so I don't have any pics or videos. If it was my car I would be posting the numbers that really matter - ones from the track instead of the dyno








I think its pretty funny that the people asking for more info didn't read the whole thread in the first place. For the third time gas was straight 93 Sunoco no water/meth. Injector size is irrelevant - use whatever your software is designed for or if on standalone size them for power you want to make. 
As for the reputable source that told you 15psi was the limit on pump gas I would start looking around for another source of advice. Torque not psi is the real limit. The boost it takes to reach that limit depends on too many factors to get into.


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

*Re: (vw1320)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_Thanks.
Not my car so I don't have any pics or videos. If it was my car I would be posting the numbers that really matter - ones from the track instead of the dyno








I think its pretty funny that the people asking for more info didn't read the whole thread in the first place. For the third time gas was straight 93 Sunoco no water/meth. Injector size is irrelevant - use whatever your software is designed for or if on standalone size them for power you want to make. 
As for the reputable source that told you 15psi was the limit on pump gas I would start looking around for another source of advice. Torque not psi is the real limit. The boost it takes to reach that limit depends on too many factors to get into. 

I made one pass at 29psi on pump 91 octane without water/meth and 630cc injectors. With enough fuel you can make safe runs without needing race gas up to a certain point


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (KubotaPowered)*

exactly you can go pretty far on pump gas, hell im makng 600 on pump and we did not even try to push the limits, its all in the tune,


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## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (DaBeeterEater)*

Just a snap of the car from h2o last year.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: (The Yoda)*

car looks good man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
is it 513whp, or 531whp now? im confused.


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## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

*Re: (-THROTTLE-)*


_Quote, originally posted by *-THROTTLE-* »_car looks good man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
is it 513whp, or 531whp now? im confused.

Your right, my sig was screwed up lol.


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## turbo mike (Dec 8, 2005)

*Re: (The Yoda)*


_Quote, originally posted by *The Yoda* »_
Your right, my sig was screwed up lol.








i figured thats what it was. they have my car now, doing haltech e6x http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_Just got back from the dyno with a vr6 turbo. Basic setup -
T67 .8x hotside
ATP exhaust manifold
3" dp and exhaust
Schimmel SRI
Schimmel air to water
DTA Pro8
Sunoco 93 pump gas 
21 pounds of boost
Dyno Dynamics in Shootout 6f mode
Air in the dyno bay was up around 100 degrees for most of the pulls. Even with the air to water the IAT's were getting up there. Still made pretty good power - 513whp was the peak on the last pull. Graph below - it held power all the way to 7500 even though the chart only shows it going to 7250. Not sure why as on the dyno computer it showed it going to 7500 but its a quirk I have noticed when printing sheets from this dyno. 








Pretty happy with the power for pump gas and a reasonable boost level. Thanks to my brother for tickling the keys while I drove the car on the dyno. Just wish my car had a power knob like this thing does.









Do you have any knock activity at 3500-4500rpm?
You are lacking 50whp in that area so if you dont have any knock activity you can propably add some more ignition timing and lean out the tune to 12.8:1-13-2:1 in thát area before its in full spool.
21psi seem to be reached at 5300rpm and you could propably get it at ~4600ish. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

yeah i was kind of wondering bout that seems like a VERY late spool for that turbo, i had the same thing but a 61mm and it had 21 by 4200 ish


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## vw1320 (Jul 11, 2000)

*Re: I got five on it ([email protected])*

Thanks for the input. The slow spool is partly intentional, partly the setup, and partly the dyno I believe. On the street the spool is quicker by a decent bit but it could be made quicker still. The spool and torque is kept weak in order to preserve traction and driveline parts though. I'd rather deal with a little lag versus wheelspin







This is a streetcar first and foremost so street manners take priority over a little power here and there.


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vw1320* »_Thanks for the input. The slow spool is partly intentional, partly the setup, and partly the dyno I believe. On the street the spool is quicker by a decent bit but it could be made quicker still. The spool and torque is kept weak in order to preserve traction and driveline parts though. I'd rather deal with a little lag versus wheelspin







This is a streetcar first and foremost so street manners take priority over a little power here and there. 

Little power








Here in Sweden 50whp is alot








I think i know why its a bit laggy and low on power.
Its the schimmel intake.
Didnt see that you had that when i read the post the firts time.
But im amazed that your tranny can hold the 450wtq







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What have you done to it?
My 02J´s lasted 2sec with both OEM and aftermarket gearing


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## DaBeeterEater (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: I got five on it (vw1320)*

yeah i hear ya on that one still waiting on some videos lol http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
i got a boost by gear in my kpro and its nice to help with traction i can set it at any boost at any rpm its nice to have something like that 


_Modified by DaBeeterEater at 1:46 PM 8-20-2009_


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## larsonscorrado (Nov 20, 2003)

im just wondering what kind of ignition timing you guys are running on your turbo vr6's? i have a turbo vr6 corrado and im trying to set up my tec3 standalone and i need to know what kind of timing to run. thanks


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## kevhayward (Mar 13, 2007)

I run 33 - 44 advance on light throttle and 20 -25 on boost.


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## skywalkersgti (Mar 27, 2007)

*Re: I got five on it (snobum)*

good work.get some pics of the setup, love the title. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Dirty_D (Oct 2, 2003)

*Re: I got five on it (skywalkersgti)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Run this town tonight hahaha


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## xblueinsanityx (Nov 20, 2005)

good numbers i know how it is to make big power on pump gas and everyone whines and says its fake just ignore them


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## killa (Nov 26, 2000)

Ok, first of all, good numbers.
Now, a motor's natural output is torque, hp is just the rate which at which torque is being put down so just a function of it so forget the HP number and focus on the torque.
21 psi of boost is around 2.44:1 Pressure ratio so your pressure is going up by that amount so your torque should go up by that as well, let's say that you're starting off with 175hp or so * 2.44= 427tq at the crank. If this dyno is indeed at the wheels then this setup is making more towards 185whp in N/A form. If this is the case then the setup either has a larger displacement or a nice set of cams, judging by the torque curve i'd say that it's the last guess








Think about it, a motor that flows 18lbs/hr worth of air in N/A form will pretty much double that amount by 1 bar of boost, etc. Pressure is always fixed so the only thing that changes is the motor's ability to move air (Volumetric efficiency). A nice set of cams will also move your torque curve up thus giving you the same amount of torque at a later rpm which will give your higher hp number with the same amount of torque.

Good job http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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