# Go big or Go Home



## corymnr (Jun 2, 2008)

okay first and foremost im very impressed with everyones technical expertise in the realm of forced induction

in the words of ricky bobby "I WANNA GO FAST"

i live in a podunk ******* town where mustangs rule the roads, i already have an aba swapped 91 jetta thatll keep up with them now i want to build something violent and dangerous and oddball, im thinking of a rabbit pickup with a 12v vrt ive been cruising around posts and gathering some info and such, i want it to definately be reliable i dont want it to blow up. itll take me a few years to acquire parts, i already have acess to 2 12v blocks and heads that are in need of rebuilding im not looking to set the world on fire........yet haha 

a few questions though, is the stock crank for the 12v vr6 strong enough to handle about 500whp?
is it worth it to go with lightweight knife edged or will i be throwing money away? im thinking about possibly going bigger bore in this venture as well, possibly 3.0l or even more. 

and the best thing about this situation is my girlfriend approves!!! woohoo!!! (even knowing the fact that it will cost thousands upon thousands of dollars


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

any junkyard 12v vr6 will hold together 500whp
head spacer and a good 630 injector file and boost away...the crank is forged and designed to be diesel...so no worries there........ever


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## corymnr (Jun 2, 2008)

i dont think i want to go with the head spacer route, i do want to go with good forged low compression pistons, and beefed up rods. good news on the crank though i didnt really want to have to buy one. hopefully the ones that i have are in good condition.


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## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

a vr6 mk1 is not a bolt in affair.. unless you've got good fab skills, you might want to consider putting it in your mk2.. it is much easier


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

power isnt every thing on fwd 500 whp you are going to be all over the road so keep that in mind as well


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

yep, its pretty hard to get 350whp down most times, but when u get up past 400-425whp it must be nuts :thumbup:


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## corymnr (Jun 2, 2008)

i do realize that 400-425 is nuts thats why i want to go 500, im also considering making it awd i do have some pretty good fab skills, i want to put it in a mk1 cause no one will see it coming hahaha. i know that this will take a fair amount of time, im looking in the realm of years....unless i become very wealthy very fast which is very unlikely, at this stage im just picking up ideas. just reading threads right now, picking up as much info as i can, hell i spent a couple years reading up on doing the aba swap before i actually did it.....well before i found a car that was worth putting it inwn, not easy to come by in this town. there are like 10 mk2s in my town, my dad and i own 3 (2 are dead)another in town a guy build into a jetta limo....yeah i said it he made a limo out of 2 its pink and purple.......:facepalm:. like i said i want it violent, dangerous, beastly and all that good stuff, wont be a daily driver.


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## CanadianCabby (Sep 1, 2006)

there are a lot of good build threads in the mk1 forum you should check out.. some turbo.. some not.. definitely good for ideas..


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

look up 'adaptorman'

/thread


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

with 100% stock VR6 with just a headspacer you can get 500whp no problem.
just match the turbo well and do good software or tune standalone correctly. after 500...you should have rods.
adapterman is not a good source for a good safe good running "build" 
we sell mounts to bolt a VR6 trans ina mk1 but you'll have to fab a pass/side mount.


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## corymnr (Jun 2, 2008)

im probably going to go with proper pistons and rods, who the hell knows i may try to crank more juice outta it


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## Dave926 (Mar 30, 2005)

nothing-leaves-stock said:


> with 100% stock VR6 with just a headspacer you can get 500whp no problem.
> just match the turbo well and do good software or tune standalone correctly. after 500...you should have rods.
> adapterman is not a good source for a good safe good running "build"
> we sell mounts to bolt a VR6 trans ina mk1 but you'll have to fab a pass/side mount.


I agree is his tuning methods are a bit off, but the build overall seems top notch. The frame work and all the things related to the haldex conversion seem spot on.

I think he is a bit nuts for trying to push 30+psi out of a holset into a stock vr6 but pushing the envelope is what advances technology.


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## nothing-leaves-stock (Mar 1, 2005)

his tuning is terrible haha. 4 or 5 motors already??
here's may points....
if that was us as a shop and built that truck....NO ONE would come to us. it's too heavey, mig welded all over, not straight chasis wise, design and flows are off on the setup. etc
BUT..there's always a BUT....for doing it in his house garage, with just a few random tools...it's good. i'll give him props for that.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

500whp is stone cold useless in a FWD street car. I had way more fun with the boost turned down, at least I was going somewhere.


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

cabzilla said:


> 500whp is stone cold useless in a FWD street car. I had way more fun with the boost turned down, at least I was going somewhere.


true...especialy on mk1-2-3 cars.......
Exactly why my next build wil be from Japan and have AWD


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

I would ditch the idea of the VR6 in the MK1 just because 500whp is easily doable with a 4 cyl.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

cabzilla said:


> 500whp is stone cold useless in a FWD street car. I had way more fun with the boost turned down, at least I was going somewhere.


+1:thumbup:


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

You can never have too much p*$$y or to much power


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

cabzilla said:


> 500whp is stone cold useless in a FWD street car. I had way more fun with the boost turned down, at least I was going somewhere.


THANK YOU!:thumbup:

I've been saying this forever

Unless you're a drag racer with a roll bar or cage, slicks, etc. 500-600whp shouldn't come out of your mouth. Make 300-400, save alot of money, and have a trans that lasts.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

slcturbo said:


> THANK YOU!:thumbup:
> 
> I've been saying this forever
> 
> Unless you're a drag racer with a roll bar or cage, slicks, etc. 500-600whp shouldn't come out of your mouth. Make 300-400, save alot of money, and have a trans that lasts.


Hes just saying this because he will never be able to make any more power with his chip. Hes talking about something he knows nothing about.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

TIGninja said:


> Hes just saying this because he will never be able to make any more power with his chip. Hes talking about something he knows nothing about.




You'd do well to take a step back right now. I was running standalone before you likely even had a license.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

cabzilla said:


> You'd do well to take a step back right now. I was running standalone before you likely even had a license.


Um yea I doubt that.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

cabzilla said:


> You'd do well to take a step back right now. I was running standalone before you likely even had a license.



Don't waste your time man. You and everyone else should ignore this dude. Report his posts to modsas I have been and move on:thumbup:

He's on here all day, bored, and looking to pick fights. It's pathetic:thumbdown:


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

slcturbo said:


> Don't waste your time man. You and everyone else should ignore this dude. Report his posts to modsas I have been and move on:thumbup:
> 
> He's on here all day, bored, and looking to pick fights. It's pathetic:thumbdown:


Yea Im here to wate everyones time,spread misinformation,and pick fights (Oh never mind thats you) :facepalm:


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## pimS (Jan 7, 2009)

TIGninja said:


> Yea Im here to wate everyones time,spread misinformation,and pick fights (Oh never mind thats you) :facepalm:


just ignore him, i've tried before, it's imposible getting sence in the guys head.
He just blabbers about, not thinking what the point was in the first place


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

pimS said:


> just ignore him, i've tried before, it's imposible getting sence in the guys head.
> He just blabbers about, not thinking what the point was in the first place


Please do. I don't find you're posts informative either, but I'm not going to insult you or harass you over it.

Not everyone is going to agree. No need to act like 8 yr. olds on a school yard about it.


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## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

I'm all about 500 plus on the street. I don't drag race. It is very usable if you choose the right turbo and tune to save your trans and traction. For my application and a dual stage boost controller, I get full traction from 2nd gear on. I'll never go back to a 300-400 setup.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

The Yoda said:


> I'm all about 500 plus on the street. I don't drag race. It is very usable if you choose the right turbo and tune to save your trans and traction. For my application and a dual stage boost controller, I get full traction from 2nd gear on. I'll never go back to a 300-400 setup.


Full traction in 2nd gear at what boost/power level? What tire?

I can't get full traction sometimes on a 24.5 in slick and prepped track at only ~400whp in 2nd gear. 500whp in 2nd on the street=never. Probably not even 3rd.


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## The Yoda (Nov 28, 2005)

Low boost 8-9psi I can get full traction in 1st gear pretty much. On high boost switch 500+ I def get full traction in 3rd. All on a 215-60-17 street tire I believe. .82 Hotside on a t67 helps save the trans and how power comes on along with a custom tune.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

cabzilla said:


> You'd do well to take a step back right now. I was running standalone before you likely even had a license.






TIGninja said:


> Um yea I doubt that.





Since all you apparently do here is regurgitate things other people tell you, I'm not surprised. Enjoy making fifty threads about getting a rabbit to 500whp. Such a pioneer.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Yes you can run 500whp on the street. You will need the boost control capabilities of a standalone. I made 373whp in my daily driven MK1 with a ABA and will be adding more boost as soon as I get back from vacation.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

TIGninja said:


> Yes you can run 500whp on the street. You will need the boost control capabilities of a standalone. I made 373whp in my daily driven MK1 with a ABA and will be adding more boost as soon as I get back from vacation.


... or an AVC-R.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

cabzilla said:


> ... or an AVC-R.


An AVC-R does not have anywhere near the boost control capabilities that a standalone does.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

TIGninja said:


> An AVC-R does not have anywhere near the boost control capabilities that a standalone does.



...but it does have boost capabilities... like boost by gear... or just general boost control...


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Boost112 said:


> ...but it does have boost capabilities... like boost by gear... or just general boost control...


There is boost by throttle which is huge. It allows you to back out of boost by using the throttle. This is how most stock systems control boost. With most systems its all or nothing and this leads to uncontrollable wheel spin. Plus by the time you buy all these add ons you can have a properly tuned set up that runs everything and is more capable.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

What boost capabilities does the avcr not have?

Boost by gear, rpm, learn gear, etc. etc.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

The Yoda said:


> Low boost 8-9psi I can get full traction in 1st gear pretty much. On high boost switch 500+ I def get full traction in 3rd. All on a 215-60-17 street tire I believe. .82 Hotside on a t67 helps save the trans and how power comes on along with a custom tune.


ok. That's what I thought you meant. I have boost by gear, a soft tire, and a decent sized hotside (t4 .69 P-trim) so I have a decent idea of what's possible. Most I've ever held in 2nd was ~15psi on an almost 100 degree day(less power/more traction) and someone else in the car. 3rd is possible I guess, but 2nd no way no how in a fwd and 215 street tire are you putting anywhere near 500whp down. Maybe with a 1:1 final drive ratio.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

On my standalone I can datalog wheel spin and dial in the boost based on that. I can also run boost by throttle so I can over shoot to wheel spin and then pedal back a little to keep traction. If you tried to do this with AVCR you would dump boost completely.


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## Boost112 (May 8, 2002)

TIGninja said:


> There is boost by throttle which is huge. It allows you to back out of boost by using the throttle. This is how most stock systems control boost. With most systems its all or nothing and this leads to uncontrollable wheel spin. Plus by the time you buy all these add ons you can have a properly tuned set up that runs everything and is more capable.


Yeah...who is going to do that?.... Me...i dont think so...i dont know a thing about tuning a stand alone... Let alone have the time or place to set it up....

...but I do know somebidy that has expeince wirh the avc-r..and can install and then set it up for me in a day...


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

Boost112 said:


> Yeah...who is going to do that?.... Me...i dont think so...i dont know a thing about tuning a stand alone... Let alone have the time or place to set it up....
> 
> ...but I do know somebidy that has expeince wirh the avc-r..and can install and then set it up for me in a day...


Its easier to set up on a standalone and its much cheaper. You can set up boost control by almost any parameter with standalone. This makes higher power and boost controllable.


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## slcturbo (Apr 19, 2010)

Boost112 said:


> Yeah...who is going to do that?.... Me...i dont think so...i dont know a thing about tuning a stand alone... Let alone have the time or place to set it up....
> 
> ...but I do know somebidy that has expeince wirh the avc-r..and can install and then set it up for me in a day...


Can't speak for standalone, but the avcr is more than capable. Almost has too many features.

It does take time though to get it dialed. Living close to a major city and trying to tune a mid 11 sec. car isn't easy. Too much traffic.


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## BubonicCorrado (Jul 24, 2003)

TIGninja said:


> There is boost by throttle which is huge. It allows you to back out of boost by using the throttle. This is how most stock systems control boost. With most systems its all or nothing and this leads to uncontrollable wheel spin. Plus by the time you buy all these add ons you can have a properly tuned set up that runs everything and is more capable.


Or you could use your throttle to back out of boost by throttle.

I've utilized, manual, profec b's, an AVC-R, a Holley Commander 950, 034EFI, and played around with the DTA and, Mega Squirt, for boost control.

The AVC-R is by far the easiest, and most fun system for boost control I've used to date.

Dial your desired pressure, set the RPM you want it to come on, set what gears you want it to come on, and which gears you don't, and it has a scramble feature built in, so you can press a button, and it will overboost to a pre determined pressure. Great for passing!

If you want affordable, versital, reliable, and HIGHLY effective boost control. The AVCR cannot be beat. 

I've been daily driving my AVC-r in two different cars for the last 6 years without a hiccup. EVER. Icing on the cake? I bought it used from a car that had been daily driving it since it first came out.

It is however a PAIN IN THE ASS to wire in\install cleanly.


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## TIGninja (Mar 21, 2010)

BubonicCorrado said:


> Or you could use your throttle to back out of boost by throttle.


No it doesnt work like that at all. when you take your foot off your throttle it either trys to let all the boost in or it dumps it all. Its not linear at all. If you hold your foot at half throttle it will try to build max boost and its not linear.


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## MarsRed84Roc (Dec 6, 2006)

TIGninja said:


> Yes you can run 500whp on the street. You will need the boost control capabilities of a standalone. I made 373whp in my daily driven MK1 with a ABA and will be adding more boost as soon as I get back from vacation.


So whens this vacation? Please do tell us so we can start a thread about boost without you picking a fight with anyone who does not agree with your point of view.

You've been on here for just one year and all I've seen you do it carry on about standalone...get off topic and spew.

Someone pls ban this guy and his IP address so that we can have some constructive conversations.


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## turbodub (Jul 6, 2000)

MarsRed84Roc said:


> So whens this vacation? Please do tell us so we can start a thread about boost without you picking a fight with anyone who does not agree with your point of view.
> 
> You've been on here for just one year and all I've seen you do it carry on about standalone...get off topic and spew.
> 
> Someone pls ban this guy and his IP address so that we can have some constructive conversations.


yeah chuck! get outta here with your 1 year old screen name. did you just get a license last year? you must be 16 or something and have no idea how to tune a car :heart:


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