# KESSY & water - my story



## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

I thought I would share my story about a fairly common problem. I have a 2004 Silver Phaeton 4.2 V8 with 125k miles. I am a VW fan with three vehicles in the family (2005 Golf GLS / TDI 5-speed & 2006 Touareg V6). My Phaeton is the gem. While going through this issue was frustrating, the end result seems to be a reasonable experience. I am the third owner. I purchased the car in November 2011 with 78k miles on it. It has been a fantastic vehicle and a pleasure to own and drive. That said, I have experienced or initiated preventative repairs for many of the common issues. I have an honest, skilled independent German auto mechanic (German Autohaus - Newhall, CA) that does most of the work on all my VDubs. Joseph and Joe are great. In the 4.5 years I have owned the car, I have invested about $6k in basic maintenance, tires and repairs. Some of the repairs I have already done:

Timing belt (at purchase) 78k miles
Brakes: Front 2x Rear 1x 
Steering column workshop fault - replaced entire steering column unit (dealer had to do this repair and reprogramming) 95k miles
Replace sway-bar links 100k miles
Replace entire oil cooler and gaskets 108k miles
All Suspension bushings 116k miles
New (used) amplifier (fixed NAV voice and static)
Full 120k service (spark plugs, etc.)
Misc fluid changes

It was about a year ago that we had a decent rain (yes, a rarity in SoCal) overnight and I found the driver's floorboard carpet soaking wet. I had read about the drainage problems online and immediately vacuumed the water out of the carpet as much as possible and worried that I would have some electrical gremlins. Other than hearing some water sloshing in the sunroof area after going through the car wash, there was no other issues. Over the course of the year my concern for the water intrusion diminished; in part because we get so little rain here in Southern California.

Well, El Nino is paying us a visit this year and a few weeks ago I spent a good portion of the day driving in a solid rain. I drove to some meetings 1.5 hours south of my office, left the dinner meeting and made a stop for gas. When I got in the car to leave the station, nothing. All electrical worked, but nothing at all when I try to start the engine. I immediately thought water and felt the floor board; it was dry. It was late and I was with a colleague so we bit the bullet and took an Uber all the way home (actually a very good experience for $100+/-). The next day, I drove back down to the vehicle in my truck expecting to meet a flatbed tow to take it to the local dealership for diagnosis. When I got in the car, it started up right away so I decided to drive straight back home and get it closer to my dealership. When I arrived home, I parked it in the garage and it would not restart after turning off. I decided to let it "dry out" more. I did more research online and decided to do an extensive cleaning out of debris and leaves from the areas near the firewall and beneath the air intake cover. It was a mess! I vacuumed out quite a bit of moist leaves, pine needles and dirt. You could not see any of it without taking off the cover under the hood. I decided to wait another 24 hours to start it up. The next afternoon it started right up, so I was thinking I may be ok. Wrong. It wouldn't restart. (BTW, I did take the train south to get my other car that was left there. Complicated..... I know.)

I decided to wait a few days until a Saturday to try to start it again, so I could immediately drive it to Galpin VW or have it towed. I have been very picky about who works on my Phaeton. I will not let the local dealer, Parkway VW, work on any of my cars. They asked how to spell Phaeton when I went in for a small part :screwy:. So when Galpin Motors opened their VW store I assumed, based on the quality and history of their dealerships, they would have a Phaeton experienced mechanic. (My family and many friends have been buying and maintaining cars at Galpin Ford for decades.) Low and behold, my first service advisor actually owned one himself and he described each Phaeton that comes in for regular maintanence. Unfortunately, he recently left Galpin to work at the Beverly Hills Bentley shop. That day it started up and I drove it to the dealership and spoke to Steve Becker, my service advisor. Fortunately, as I parked it and spoke to Steve, one of the techs walked up and introduced himself. We talked for a moment and it was clear he was up to date on KESSY issues, water intrusion, etc.. It wouldn't restart, but I was relieved. Before leaving, I asked if he did find water damage to the KESSY, would he mind if I tried to find a KESSY myself. Besides not being able to offer a warranty on a used part, he had no problem with it. 

I should say tat this point, Galpin VW has shown themselves to be very amiable, willing to work with me and top-notch professional. I got the call a few days later; the foam underneath the drivers side is sopping wet, the KESSY is dead and we need to dry it out before we can find the leak. Just what I thought, moisture killed it and it was working sporadically as it sat still and dried a little. Any movement shorted it out. I let them know I would get back to them after I did some research for a KESSY replacement. They quoted me the price for repair with a new one  and then gave me the VIN match part number. Steve was great and offered me no pressure at all. So the search commenced.... 

I will finish the story later, it looks to be a good ending. Suffice it to say for now, I expect to have the car back in the next few days in tip-top shape and having spent a fraction of the potential cost. :thumbup:


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

My car: 

https://autosboatsmotorcyclesetc.shutterfly.com/pictures/9

Haven't figured out how to do the picture link dealio.


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## StevenFT (Jan 26, 2012)

I notice in your repair log that you had the entire oil cooler replaced along with the gaskets. Was that an "engine-out" procedure? Just curious...

Your Phaeton looks sharp!

Steven


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

StevenFT said:


> I notice in your repair log that you had the entire oil cooler replaced along with the gaskets. Was that an "engine-out" procedure? Just curious...
> 
> Your Phaeton looks sharp!
> 
> Steven


Thanks Steven.

The oil cooler was replaced without a major engine-out procedure. The oil cooler had developed a coolant leak and was losing fluid badly. They did take a good portion of the front end fascia off. It was about a $3k job in total after I had them do full 110k scheduled service and front end on the car while it was apart.


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

The next chapter of the story is that once I had the part number for the KESSY, I began searching online to possibly find one available. I did find a handful of units on eBay, but only one with the same ending numbers/letters that I needed. I then decided to do a Google search and it brought up various images of the unit. One of the pictures showed the correct unit and upon closer review, it was the part number I needed (from a 2006 Cayenne; part number ending ...135 k) and it was at a Porsche dismantler less than 5 miles from the dealership!! Bingo! I went to Los Angeles Dismantler to pick up the module; $80 later I was on my way! I drove immediately over to Galpin VW to drop off the module. Again, Steve and his guys were great. They gladly took the part and told me they would be in touch. I have to say I was thrilled to have found the part nearby and that Galpin was so amiable in working with me on finding a cost effective solution. 

A few days later, I received a call from the adviser to let me know they found the passenger side sunroof drain tube was completely blocked, causing the left side to be overwhelmed and causing a significant leak when water of moderate amounts got into the sunroof area. They were confident this was the culprit and were able to clean it completely and allow normal drainage to occur. Once they were confident they found the cause they were able to get the KESSY installed, programmed and working!:laugh: He then told me that the water getting into the floorboard and subsequently the KESSY has caused two starter relay switches to go bad, so that is now what I am working on. I plan to contact the same LA Dismantler tomorrow to find out if they happen to have the relay parts as well.

So while the process is ongoing, the problem is getting resolved, I have been able to identify a source for parts in the future and saved a good amount of money so far, largely because this forum gave me so much information to go into this with some idea of what to look for and possible solutions.

More to come as I get this completed......


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

So, you CAN use used Kessys in Phaetons? 

I thought you had to buy new because they could never be re-programmed, not even by a dealer?

That's great for future reference. I'd hate to have to scrap a Phaeton because VW no longer sold Kessys for them.

Thanks for the info.

-Eric


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> So, you CAN use used Kessys in Phaetons?
> 
> I thought you had to buy new because they could never be re-programmed, not even by a dealer?
> 
> ...


Well, I will tell you the final answer when I get the car back. That said, they did call me to let me know they have programmed the unit and have the car running well. You made the statement that VW no longer sells the KESSY unit; I don't know with certainty if that is true, but I was quoted a price from the dealer for a new one after the diagnosis. I am not sure if it is from the factory or another dealer, but they did not say anything to me about not being able to get one. I do believe the KESSY is in some way VIN specific, so you will need to get the part number of the unit in the vehicle. When I searched for a replacement, there were a handful of them out there with a few different part numbers. I know there was a thread discussing the compatible alternative part numbers.

I will be sure to update the thread with the final results. I am traveling on business this week and will not be able to pick the car up until I return.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I think he was talking speculatively about the Kessy not being supplied in the future. If the used one works, I believe you'll be the first person here to have a dealer install a used unit.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

invisiblewave said:


> I think he was talking speculatively about the Kessy not being supplied in the future. If the used one works, I believe you'll be the first person here to have a dealer install a used unit.


I _was_ writing in the future tense. 

Based on every other part, the day will come when the KESSY is no longer available. It will be good to know that a dealer can program a used or rebuilt one. 

I believe in other threads there is reference to a wizard who can program a used KESSY. However, if a dealer can do it, it will be more "do-able".

Eric


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

I talked to my service advisor Steve. He gave me the part numbers for the two switches and I ordered them from fcpeuro.com yesterday. They should arrive by Friday. I expect to drop them off Saturday, with hopes the repairs will be done early next week.



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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

BTW, when I stopped by the dealer last week to check in, I noticed a really sharp Phaeton in one of the bays.... It was Sylvester Stallone's 2006! They had told me that he brought his car in for regular maintenance. It was beautiful. Black on black, custom interior and stereo. Wish I would have grabbed some pics.

A nice aspect, among many, of Galpin VW is that their work bay area for all repairs is open and easily observed. We don't have to worry much about cold, snow, etc.....

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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The best thing about Galpin VW, imo, is that they can install used Kessys!


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

invisiblewave said:


> The best thing about Galpin VW, imo, is that they can install used Kessys!


We'll know for sure next week. If so, seems they will be heroic to many Phaeton owners.  

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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

*Similar issue*

Good Evening Everyone,

Well I wish I had the common sense to drop in to the fountain of knowledge that is this forum while trying to figure out what was the issue with my car, a 2004 V8. As in the case of the original poster several months back we had one hell of a down pour in Toronto and as I sat in my bedroom heard the alarm going off on the car. I come out side and not only is the alarm going off the car is trying to start, needless to say I was freaking the hell out...cut to being completely drenched and having disconnected both the batteries I finally go the car to quite down.

Took the car to my mechanic and after much back and forth finally got to the root cause...the ECM had been completely water damaged...to the point of heavy rust. So now I am in the market for part number 3D0 909 135K and wanted to ask if the EMC is universal between the Toureg, Cayman and the Phaeton?

Checking the information on the actual ECM seems to indicate they are the same but I wanted to check as a brand new ECM is in the ballpark of $1400 where as a used one is considerably cheaper..only one of them clearly indicate they are for the Phaeton.

Any guidance would be appreciated as always.

Uday


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

Uday. That is the same KESSY module / part number that I have. I found a replacement from a 2006 Porsche Cayenne. At this point, it seems to be working. I will have more data when the new relay switches are installed. 

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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

I think the 04-06 Phaeton, Cayenne & Toureg and possibly others use many of the same parts.

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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

Be sure to have your mechanic identify what is causing water intrusion. 

Also, I doubt a non-dealership mechanic will have the necessary computer systems to read the car. Even a high-end VAGCOM can only do so much.

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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

We know what causes the water intrusion, there's a whole DIY procedure in the FAQ for clearing the drains and plenums. Also, you may wish to consider removing the rubber bung underneath the Kessy so that any water drains. The reason the unit is rusted is because it's been sitting in water for years, the units do have waterproofing, so it takes pooling of the water to damage it.


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

Yes, true. But, I mentioned that so that all the possible factors (sunroof, intake plenum, etc) should be checked.

I have wondered if, for precaution, wrapping the module in plastic would do some good.

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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It can't hurt. I've been running mine for 8 years with the rubber bung removed.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks a million chaps for the feedback, one question did arise if using a part from another car such as the Toureg would have any conflict with the Phaeton. Is there potentially any unique programing which maybe on the original when compared to the replacement?

As part of the troubleshooting we will be cleaning out sunroof, intake plenum etc to make sure this does not happen again...and seeing how badly it was mucked up I can imagine it's been happing for a very long time.

@invisiblewave thank you for that recommendation will do that as well, seeing as it's been indoors for almost 4months I would imagine all the water has drained but will make sure.

So really only question now is if I should look for a Kessy specifically out of a Phaeton or go for a Toureg or Cayenne

Again thank you...when I get a chance (or figure out) will post a picture of the busted unit.

Uday


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

invisiblewave said:


> It can't hurt. I've been running mine for 8 years with the rubber bung removed.


Is there increased risk of water coming in that area with that removed? 

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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Halvecto said:


> Is there increased risk of water coming in that area with that removed?
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk


Yes, without doubt. But the problem is when the Kessy is sitting in a pool of water for an extended period. With the bung removed, it's only ever going to get splashed. I've driven through plenty of sub-tropical downpours in mine without any problems.


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

udaymohan said:


> Thanks a million chaps for the feedback, one question did arise if using a part from another car such as the Toureg would have any conflict with the Phaeton. Is there potentially any unique programing which maybe on the original when compared to the replacement?
> 
> As part of the troubleshooting we will be cleaning out sunroof, intake plenum etc to make sure this does not happen again...and seeing how badly it was mucked up I can imagine it's been happing for a very long time.
> 
> ...


If the part number is exactly the same, it should be compatible. The plastic module doesn't know if it's in an Audi, Porsche or VW . I do know that when they plugged in the module I brought to them, the tech said they were able to get the KESSY to 'wake up and talk" to my car, in that process they reprogrammed all my keys to be sure all the signals are speaking the same language.

BTW, I did a thorough cleaning/vacuuming of the area under the plastic cover across the width of the engine compartment that is around the wiper base and plenum. I was shocked by all the leaves, dirt, etc. that was there and I park in my garage 90% of the time.

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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Thanks Halvecto for that...I think for the monies I shall take a stab at the part I have sourced in the states...checked it back and forth and all the numbers do line up.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Halvecto said:


> BTW, I did a thorough cleaning/vacuuming of the area under the plastic cover across the width of the engine compartment that is around the wiper base and plenum. I was shocked by all the leaves, dirt, etc. that was there and I park in my garage 90% of the time.


And mine has been standing outside through it all for 7+yrs :S


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Halvecto said:


> BTW, when I stopped by the dealer last week to check in, I noticed a really sharp Phaeton in one of the bays.... It was Sylvester Stallone's 2006! They had told me that he brought his car in for regular maintenance. It was beautiful. Black on black, custom interior and stereo. Wish I would have grabbed some pics.
> 
> A nice aspect, among many, of Galpin VW is that their work bay area for all repairs is open and easily observed. We don't have to worry much about cold, snow, etc.....
> 
> Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk



See this link


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

n968412L said:


> See this link


Yep. That's it. 

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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

invisiblewave said:


> The best thing about Galpin VW, imo, is that they can install used Kessys!


Quick update:

I received the parts (two relay switches) I had ordered and stopped by Galpin VW today to drop them off with Steve Becker, my service adviser. Car should be done in the next day or so. I continue to be very impressed by their willingness to work with me to find cost effective solutions. 

Justin, the service tech, and I chatted for a bit. He said the KESSY seems to be working without problem and they should have it all dialed in this week. I asked him about the electronics in general of the Phaeton. He said the car's electrical and HVAC system is primarily from the Bentley DNA. The car really is a Frankenstein of sorts between Audi, Bentley and Volkswagen. They were saying they only see a handful of Phaetons that are in great shape and always enjoy working on such a unique vehicle. I will update again when I have the car home.


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## udaymohan (Nov 8, 2007)

Good luck, hope it all pans out. My part should be here around the 18th at which point I can provide an update as well


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

The service advisor at my Dealer is also impressed that your dealer got a used KESSY programmed. He said they have to be in contact with VW in Germany to program KESSYs.

-Eric


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

It has been a long time, but I want to update this thread so someone might benefit from my experience. Don't get too discouraged, in my case it was worth the hassle. I just returned from a 750+ mile trip to Northern California in my Phaeton. It is the first extended trip I have taken in my car since all the work was done. I averaged around 65 MPH & 26 MPG for the trip.... Am I the only one that occasionally forgets just how great of a road car this is? :thumbup: Car is running fantastic, mileage went over 125k during my trip and it has never run better. Not a hiccup. Stereo, AC, suspension, GPS etc. like new.

So here is the result of my KESSY, etc.

After a very long stay, most of which was because it is a second car so I wasn't in a hurry and my dealership allowed me to purchase my own parts (yes, they were willing and able to reprogram the used KESSY that I picked up from a Porsche dismantler). I picked up the car from Galpin VW. You can read the thread beginning to get an understanding of what happened. Again, I will say, Galpin exhibited all the traits of a first class operation. Customer service, cost sensitivity and consistent communication. My adviser Steve Becker, lead tech Justin and the service Manager John were all top notch.

Here is exactly what is written on the invoice, which sums it up well:

_1. On initial inspection found engine bay plenum filled with water. Found drain tubes clogged and causing water to fill up in plenum. This caused leakage inside vehicle; found KESSY area filled with water, carpet padding wet underneath, KESSY module damaged. Pulled carpet & padding back to dry, will start with KESSY module replacement first and then recheck.

2. Installed customer supplied KESSY module, programmed module, found communication restored. Upon starting found power supply relay and starter relay also damaged to to water intrusion and electrical surge. After replacement of KESSY vehicle starting intermittently. Replace both relays (supplied by customer). Communication restored found fault codes for brake switch failing. Replace brake switch, found vehicle still having intermittent problems starting. Found battery voltage too low going to rear batteries; found batteries causing problem. Replace both batteries on vehicle and restore electrical. Found brake switch relay incorrectly installed and faulty from manufacturer, replace as needed. All electrical restored, found vehicle starting properly now and performing properly upon test drive._

So in the end, the parts:

-Used KESSY (www.ladismantler.com)
-Starter Relay switch (www.fcpeuro.com )
-Power Supply switch (www.fcpeuro.com )
-Brake Switch (www.galpinvolkswagen.com/service-center )
-Starter Battery (www.galpinvolkswagen.com/service-center )
-Auxiliary Battery (www.galpinvolkswagen.com/service-center )
-New Keys; valet and standard (www.galpinvolkswagen.com/service-center )

The labor:
-8 hours (as a courtesy, they capped the labor because delays and tech training)

By their own admission, Phaetons are a rare breed and there was a learning curve on a few things. I was grateful that they understood and appreciated the quality and uniqueness of the car. I have a Golf TDI and Touareg. This car is not like those and they responded accordingly. Never once did I sense anything but respect for the car. They understood my desire to get it done right and that they also have a duty to it as a dealer. 

In the next few weeks, the car is getting a detail and oil change.........


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

You should only need a small hole in the bung, not comepletely removed, I wouldn't dare do that in a wet country such as UK - or maybe install a duckbill valve or make something out of SUGRU.


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

snapdragon said:


> You should only need a small hole in the bung, not comepletely removed, I wouldn't dare do that in a wet country such as UK - or maybe install a duckbill valve or make something out of SUGRU.


What's SUGRU?


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## JCJ (Nov 26, 2013)

That is an amazing story of a VW dealership showing some care and respect for a vehicle and customer, traits that are sadly lacking in the UK. Can we get Galpin to open a branch in the UK?

Cheers
John


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

Congratulations on your experience with this wonderful car. 

Mine too are alternate vehicles so I can take my time when working on them. 

I don't have to drive them every day either. They are way nicer than my daily driver.

I didn't buy them to impress anybody but did anybody ever buy a Phaeton to impress the masses?

-Eric


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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

JCJ said:


> That is an amazing story of a VW dealership showing some care and respect for a vehicle and customer, traits that are sadly lacking in the UK. Can we get Galpin to open a branch in the UK?
> 
> Cheers
> John


I agree. I typically avoid dealerships, but having experienced Galpin's service for decades, I was thrilled when they opened a VW dealership on their campus. It is a bit of a drive to get to, but well worth it. 

Look them up . It's quite a family operation.

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## Halvecto (Nov 18, 2011)

53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN said:


> Congratulations on your experience with this wonderful car.
> 
> Mine too are alternate vehicles so I can take my time when working on them.
> 
> ...


This is a unique car. I explain to my wife that the time and money in repairs is an investment, not because of monetary benefits (although the cost of ownership, including purchase, of a quality used Phaeton is well below a comparable vehicle), but overall enjoyment of a rare vehicle that is a "driver's car". It's a statement car without screaming "look at me".

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## portal1986 (Jul 24, 2014)

Hello


If anyone knows what the other module can be used instead of my module 3D0 909 135 L ? Is module .......135 J has keyless ?

Thanks for help


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## TheWhale (May 22, 2017)

I can match this, if you pardon the pun 

My Kessy was fried, after a failed attempt to clear my LH front sunroof drain. The only, and I mean only thing that operated on my car was the fuel gauge - I needed the key blade to open the door, no clicks or lights when trying to start, I needed the key release button to withdraw the key from the ignition, and a recovery company couldn't jump start it.

Due to major difficulties even getting a tow I settled on my local dealer, despite initially having to explain three times what a Kessy was, weeks earlier when phoning around for quotes (I later worked out this was a call centre operative for the franchise, rather than an advisor from my local dealer).

My service advisor Chris sent me a photo of my outgoing Kessy's part no. so I could get a precise match on ebay. He also sent me this pic of my very own fried Kessy:









Knowing how rare success seemingly was regarding matching Phaetons to used Kessys I asked if I would be charged twice for labour, if they had to give up on the used Kessy and then program a new one - I was assured I would be charged a total of one hour's labour between the two Kessys if it came to that. I was meanwhile charged for an hour's initial fact-finding, and for stripping and drying the carpets, but all with a 21.74% older car discount.

My initial pleasant surprise at Chris's very helpful attitude was compounded by delight and wonderment at Gary successfully programming it. When I expressed this, Chris told me it was apparently fairly straight forward, and that the hardest part was getting my car to talk to their laptop:









In my case there was no suffix after the 3D0-909-139 and I made sure to get an exact match, albeit from a Touareg. This is likely the most important first step in attempting a Kessy repair on the cheap. Given the apparent ease Specialist Cars had, I wondered how much this had contributed. However, I later found out that Gary had been judged the UK's best VW master technician in the UK final of VW's inaugural Service Qualification World Championship in 2007 - his general excellence might therefore have also played a part:

https://www.am-online.com/news/2007/10/29/aberdeen-technician-wins-vw-service-award/15921/

John


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## JCJ (Nov 26, 2013)

That’s an excellent result John. Good to find a main dealer that will fit secondhand parts rather than having to buy new. Cheers


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## GT6ixer (May 11, 2018)

Just thought I'd add my waterlogged KESSY experience to the knowledge pool. Last Thursday went to start my car at lunch and nothing. Radio came on but starter would not engage. Tried to start from the other battery and same thing. Started researching non start threads and quickly zeroed in on a waterlogged KESSY as the potential culprit. I figured it was since about a month ago I noticed water dripping form my drivers side A and C pillars. Likely clogged sunroof drains.

After finding the thread on how to access the KESSY box I found that mine too was sitting in about a 3/4" pool of rain water. After removing it from the car and pulling out the circuit board I was relieved to see that it didn't look like John's board. So I decided to see if drying it out would help. I put it in Ziploc bag with rice and left it for 5 days. I also put the two connectors in rice filled Ziploc baggies. 

Yesterday I put the dried KESSY back in and it started right up. Whew! Next stop, to my Phaeton mechanic to have the drains unclogged/reconnected. I felt I got lucky here but wanted to add my story to add some hope for others with this issue. Also I was able to get the carpet up and remove the KESSY without removing the drivers seat. The trick is I used a long (3') crow bar to pry up the carpet. That sucker is thick!


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

This is an interesting story. It sounds as if it takes at least a month of sitting in a pool of water before the Kessy fails.


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