# A 5000 mi discovery...



## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

I thought you all might find this little tidbit interesting...
I took my car to the dealer for my 5000 mi checkup last Friday. Less than an hour later I received a call. Apparently I had a coolant leak! They wanted a few hours to try and track it down, so they got me a rental and I went home.
Fast-forward to today. They called to tell me that my car would be ready to pickup tomorrow. I asked what they had to do to fix it...
They replaced my engine.
Yes, seriously. The leak was coming from the engine block.
How 'bout them beans?!
I will be SO glad to get my baby back tomorrow! I've been driving a new, but pathetic Pontiac G6 that didn't even have a sunroof, much less being a convertible...at least the weather in Chicago as pretty much sucked this week.


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*

Wow!! Is that weird. I hope your back on the road real soon.


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## darien (Oct 28, 2006)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*

Engine? Wow! That serious?! Glad they found it out sooner than later though.


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## Domdog31 (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (darien)*

they replaced your engine in one day? Please lead me to this service center!!! Thats amazing.....


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## Dan_Eos (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (Domdog31)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Domdog31* »_they replaced your engine in one day? Please lead me to this service center!!! Thats amazing.....








not only that, where did the engine come from in the first place


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (Dan_Eos)*

Wonder if there is a recall/campaign/TSB related to this issue.


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (Dan_Eos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Domdog31* »_they replaced your engine in one day? Please lead me to this service center!!! Thats amazing.....

It wasn't one day...more like 3 (plus the 2 days to diagnose)...still impressive though!

_Quote, originally posted by *Dan_Eos* »_







not only that, where did the engine come from in the first place









This was my question (after I hung up)! I'm going to ask when I get the car. Of course, I will let you all know as well...


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## Pleshy_GTI_VR6 (Nov 9, 2004)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_
It wasn't one day...more like 3 (plus the 2 days to diagnose)...still impressive though!
This was my question (after I hung up)! I'm going to ask when I get the car. Of course, I will let you all know as well...









Warranty will only pay for OEM reman blocks so you do not have to worry about the engine coming from a scrap yard or anything.


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## Dan_Eos (Jul 16, 2007)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (Pleshy_GTI_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Pleshy_GTI_VR6* »_
Warranty will only pay for OEM reman blocks so you do not have to worry about the engine coming from a scrap yard or anything.

My thought on this about where the engine came from because for such a new car, I'm doubting the dealership just happened to have a whole extra engine just sitting around.
From another car, perhaps?







_we shall see_


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## Domdog31 (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (Dan_Eos)*

Find out where they got your engine. You owe it to yourself. I wouldnt trust anybody.

Dig deep


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (Dan_Eos)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Dan_Eos* »_
My thought on this about where the engine came from because for such a new car, I'm doubting the dealership just happened to have a whole extra engine just sitting around.
From another car, perhaps?







_we shall see_









The dealer called and told me I can pick her up anytime...I'm so happy!!
So I asked about the engine.
He said it is a brand new engine from VW. VWoA has a warehouse in Wisconsin, and they apparently have complete engines in stock (at least my 3.2L). So nothing refurb, reman, or rebuilt...GREAT news!
Of course, now I get to break it in...again!


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## Dan_Eos (Jul 16, 2007)

Ok, cool. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
I wasn't really expecting that they have extra engines, but then again, gotta be ready for anything. Have fun breaking in a new one.


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## andye39s (Jun 22, 2007)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*

Wow







I would be so upset! I take whatever the dealer tells me with a grain of salt, which may be too much. I don't even trust the dealer checking tire pressure or changing oil in my car (anyone seen a 2 1/2 quarts overfill? I have, twice!), never mind an engine swap.
Personally I will never buy a car with a swapped engine, if that fact was disclosed or somehow learned of. IMHO this engine swap has resulted additional depreciation in your car's value. I understand it probably wasn't exactly a choice, and probably not much you can do to check the work. Sorry to be so negative, but that is how I would feel based in large part my past experiences with dealer service.


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## neweosowner (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_
Of course, now I get to break it in...again!









Now remember, the manual clearly states to go no faster than 75% of the speedometer maximum...which, if I recall correctly, is 131 mph...you can handle that, right?








Glad to hear that this potentially terrible situation worked out very well for you. Another plug for regular servicing.


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## pepino1977 (Jan 5, 2004)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*























new engine?
crack in the block?






















did they tell you what caused it?


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## griffsmom (May 25, 2007)

Not trying to rain on your parade, but in california, they have to call you and get your approval before performing repair work. I think i would be a little disconcerted that the dealer replaced the entire engine, and only decided to tell me AFTER they had done it. You might want to check a little deeper on this one. i hope that it turns out well for you.


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## EosMosis (Jul 4, 2007)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_
The dealer called and told me I can pick her up anytime...I'm so happy!!
So I asked about the engine.
He said it is a brand new engine from VW. VWoA has a warehouse in Wisconsin, and they apparently have complete engines in stock (at least my 3.2L). So nothing refurb, reman, or rebuilt...GREAT news!
Of course, now I get to break it in...again!









ask about what the break in period is if its a new engine.. should be the same i guess as a new car..


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (griffsmom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *griffsmom* »_Not trying to rain on your parade, but in california, they have to call you and get your approval before performing repair work. I think i would be a little disconcerted that the dealer replaced the entire engine, and only decided to tell me AFTER they had done it. You might want to check a little deeper on this one. i hope that it turns out well for you.

Not sure how that statement would be raining on my parade...but yes, it is a new engine. I have the full work order, all parts and labor involved, etc. I also poked around under the hood and there appears to be a small sticker on the side of the engine with some stock numbers, etc, and a born-on-date of 4/2007...so my engine is 4 months younger than my car.
I know they seem to have to get approval in IL as well, but this is a case of a factory defect covered under warranty. The approval thing is (the way I understand it) to prevent them from doing repairs they were going to charge you for without your knowledge...and giving you no real way to "return" said repairs if you didn't think it was worth the expense. No expense seems to equate to no need for prior approval...aside from me telling them to make it better.








Everything is perfect now...in fact, I seem to get slightly better gas mileage (so far) than I did my previous engine. Drives smooth as silk, sounds real purty, and knows how to fly when I give her some gas. All-in-all, I'm quite satisfied so far!


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (LuckyInChicago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_
Everything is perfect now...in fact, I seem to get slightly better gas mileage (so far) than I did my previous engine. Drives smooth as silk, sounds real purty, and knows how to fly when I give her some gas. All-in-all, I'm quite satisfied so far!


All's well that ends well. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## flubber (Sep 12, 2005)

*Re: (LuckyInChicago)*

With an engine that failed so severely so early, I wonder if VW told them to send it back to Germany so they could analyze the fault. Michael (PanEuropean) has told us of other cases like that.


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## flheat (Sep 29, 2006)

*Re: (LuckyInChicago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_ ... and knows how to fly when I give her some gas. 

Patience--you have to break her in again!


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## WolfsburgerMitFries (Jul 4, 2005)

*Re: (flheat)*

You know the more I think about this topic, the less it adds up. The VR6 is an old style grey cast iron engine block. Its very heavy and very durable, and the motor has been in production many (15+) years which has been more than enough time for Volkswagen to discover any design deficiencies. Then, the mechanical work automatically was done without your input or consent, all in only 1 day, with a new engine that they just so happened to have instantly available. I call foul. If the VR6 had notorious coolant leakage problems there would be a TSB available to cover the issue.
The Jaguar dealership was closed here because the local dealer franchise had a scam involving artificially invoicing warranty work back to Jaguar on cars that never had any work done to them. Jaguar got suspicous and discovered the scam after calling owners to "see if they were satisfied with the work done" and discovering that no work had been done.
A new R32 engine can bring a pile of cash, I say your new VR6 is living under a hood other than yours.
By the way, was it North Shore Volkswagen?



















_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:06 PM 8-19-2007_


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## SoCalMan (May 21, 2007)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_You know the more I think about this topic, the less it adds up. 

_Modified by WolfsburgerMitFries at 12:06 PM 8-19-2007_

The plot thickens...Very pertinent observations, IMO.


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (WolfsburgerMitFries)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_You know the more I think about this topic, the less it adds up. The VR6 is an old style grey cast iron engine block. Its very heavy and very durable, and the motor has been in production many (15+) years which has been more than enough time for Volkswagen to discover any design deficiencies. Then, the mechanical work automatically was done without your input or consent, all in only 1 day, with a new engine that they just so happened to have instantly available. I call foul. If the VR6 had notorious coolant leakage problems there would be a TSB available to cover the issue.


This did not happen in 1 day.
Took it in on a Fri when they determined there was a coolant leak somewhere and wanted to keep it overnight to try and diagnose.
Saturday, they spent more time looking, and determined it was coming from the block.
Monday, they requested a new engine from the VWoA midwest parts distribution center located in Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin (about 1 hour away from the dealer). It's a 250,000 sq ft facility, fyi.
Wednesday afternoon, I received a call saying that they had the work done, but wanted to keep it one more night to drive it 30-50 miles to verify everything works as it's supposed to.
Thursday afternoon, I picked up my car.
6 days (5 work days) later.
Just because 1 engine has a leak, does not mean there is a design deficiency...it could have been an isolated instance of something slipping through QA testing.

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
The Jaguar dealership was closed here because the local dealer franchise had a scam involving artificially invoicing warranty work back to Jaguar on cars that never had any work done to them. Jaguar got suspicous and discovered the scam after calling owners to "see if they were satisfied with the work done" and discovering that no work had been done.
A new R32 engine can bring a pile of cash, I say your new VR6 is living under a hood other than yours.


I know that crap happens here and there, but I've known my dealer for 15 years. I can't see him being part of something like that.

_Quote, originally posted by *WolfsburgerMitFries* »_
By the way, was it North Shore Volkswagen?


No...that place annoys me. A few years ago I stopped by there to get new wipers for my Passat. The Service Manager was the only one available at the time and he came out to put them in (which was a nice touch), but somehow he managed to let the arm slip after removing the old blade and the bare metal came down on the windshield, cracking it. They did replace it for free, but still...that was a pain in the hoo-ha for something that takes all of 5 minutes.


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## mark_d_drake (Aug 17, 2006)

*Re: (LuckyInChicago)*

Wolfsburger
I would also assume that VW would want the old engine back. Most expensive parts, replaced under warranty, are done on an exchange basis, the same is also true when purchasing some new components out of warranty. I had the electical controller go on my 93 cabby and the (non VW) service center that did the work ordered a factory reconditioned replacement from VW, but had to return the old one or it would have been way more expensive
-M


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## [email protected] (Apr 29, 2007)

*Re: (LuckyInChicago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_
This did not happen in 1 day.
Took it in on a Fri when they determined there was a coolant leak somewhere and wanted to keep it overnight to try and diagnose.
Saturday, they spent more time looking, and determined it was coming from the block.
Monday, they requested a new engine from the VWoA midwest parts distribution center located in Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin (about 1 hour away from the dealer). It's a 250,000 sq ft facility, fyi.
Wednesday afternoon, I received a call saying that they had the work done, but wanted to keep it one more night to drive it 30-50 miles to verify everything works as it's supposed to.
Thursday afternoon, I picked up my car.
6 days (5 work days) later.

5 work days doesnot mean 5 days of work. Assuming that the engine arrived monday afternoon, and the old engine was already removed, they did the job in 1,5 day

_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_
No...that place annoys me. A few years ago I stopped by there to get new wipers for my Passat. The Service Manager was the only one available at the time and he came out to put them in (which was a nice touch), but somehow he managed to let the arm slip after removing the old blade and the bare metal came down on the windshield, cracking it. They did replace it for free, but still...that was a pain in the hoo-ha for something that takes all of 5 minutes.

Why didnt you replace them yourself if it is that easy. S*h*i*t happens, the interesting thing is how problems are solved....


_Modified by [email protected] at 11:00 AM 8-19-2007_


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
5 work days doesnot mean 5 days of work. Assuming that the engine arrived monday afternoon, and the old engine was already removed, they did the job in 1,5 day


By 5 work days, I meant that one of the days (Sunday) the dealership and service center is closed. The work involved in putting the new engine in was about a 1 day job or so.

_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
Why didnt you replace them yourself if it is that easy. S*h*i*t happens, the interesting thing is how problems are solved....


He offered to install them, I let him. It is easy, and I had done it many times before, but if someone with more experience offers to do the work for free, my first instinct is to let them do it.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (SoCalMan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SoCalMan* »_All's well that ends well.

I think that reflects my thoughts as well. If there was a problem with the engine, and the VW dealer replaced the engine, and you have no reason to believe otherwise, then, heck, I'd thank the VW dealer for looking out for your best interests, and continue to take the car back there for service.
There are a lot of Phaeton forum members in Chicago - in fact, Chicago is the number 1 city in North America for Phaeton sales - and no-one has ever reported any questionable dealings with their service department. On the contrary, there are several VW dealers there that have superb reputations for service competence - you can check out the post NAR Phaeton dealers that we (Phaeton owners) recommend and see if your dealer is mentioned there.
I disagree entirely with Wolfsburger's thesis - I think it is scurrilous and unwarranted.
Michael


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## griffsmom (May 25, 2007)

*Re: (LuckyInChicago)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LuckyInChicago* »_
Not sure how that statement would be raining on my parade...

You were pleased with the repair of your car, so Ididn't want you to think i was just trying to be negative or bring you down with my comments.
If it were me, I'd still be bothered by the fact that they replaced the entire engine without telling me or getting my approval first, but I'm glad that it has worked out for you. Happy driving!


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (griffsmom)*


_Quote, originally posted by *griffsmom* »_
If it were me, I'd still be bothered by the fact that they replaced the entire engine without telling me or getting my approval first, but I'm glad that it has worked out for you. Happy driving!









Well, it's not like I would have said "No, please leave the leaky engine...I like the uncertainty!"








I would have been happier if I was completely issue free, yes, but what else are you gonna do?
While not realistic, I think if you buy a new car and find out it has an factory defect that requires replacement of a major part of your vehicle (engine, roof assembly, etc), you should be able to exchange it for another "factory-pure" car rather than have it repaired. Of course, that could drive a manufacturer into bankruptcy. Granted, that might also drive them to improve their build quality and QA process...but they'd never agree to that risk - even for the sake of quality or customer satisfaction!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (LuckyInChicago)*

I don't think engine replacement is as big an intervention as it might sound. The engine has relatively few attachment points to the body and the transmission, and if I was given a choice, I would rather have the whole thing replaced than have the engine opened up for the purpose of replacing a component.


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## Siriusly (Feb 1, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

seems like we have alot of chicagoland Eos's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: (Siriusly)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Siriusly* »_seems like we have alot of chicagoland Eos's http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif









I don't have all the numbers, but I believe we have a lot of Chicagoland VWs...period.








BTW, my last car was a '99 Passat as well! We're like twins or something!










_Modified by LuckyInChicago at 10:06 PM 8-20-2007_


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## jgermuga (Jan 11, 2007)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I don't think engine replacement is as big an intervention as it might sound. The engine has relatively few attachment points to the body and the transmission, and if I was given a choice, I would rather have the whole thing replaced than have the engine opened up for the purpose of replacing a component.

I agree, I would rather have the whole thing replaced. Still, I would be a bit concerned it went back together without issue. From how quickely it was done, it sounds like the tech are very experienced, but IMO, the less that needs to be done to a factory built car, the better. And that goes for both mechanical and body work.
As far as the approval, what other choice would you have had? Sure it's a bit disconcerting, sort of like going in for a physical and winding up with a heart bypass, but at least it was done fast. I've had a car spend more time at the dealership for getting a door handle replaced.


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## cb391 (Mar 12, 2006)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (LuckyInChicago)*

After reading about your situation I have a couple questions. Do you park you car in a garage and if you do are there any stains under the car where you park? All that would prove is that the leak had been going on for a while. Personally I believe it was a manufacturer's defect and I commend your dealer for the quick turnaround time. It took my dealer 3 weeks to replace a head on my Escape.


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## LuckyInChicago (Apr 4, 2007)

*Re: A 5000 mi discovery... (cb391)*

No stains, but it had been going on for a while as the coolant was low.
I suppose it's possible that the leak situated such that it didn't leak much (if at all) while the engine was off & cool...and when on, it could have just burned off on the engine. Without knowing the exact location of the leak, it's hard to guess with any amount of certainty. *shrugs*


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