# 4th clutch



## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

im on my 4th clutch! wtf is going on here

comp stage 5. 3,000 miles all under 14 psi
comp stage 4 20 miles, broke in with open wastegate and 4psi
spec stage 3+ 800 miles 17psi
spec stage 3+ 500 miles 9psi while breaking in.

i broke 4 pressure plate rivets on 4 different clutches.

what's the dillio!!!!!!!!

soon a factory manifold is goin on and im going to drive a 2.9 8:5:1 n/a

what's my next clutch? southbend? they say they can only take 425whp for the stage 3 extreme

im trying to do 24 final psi.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

well have they all been using the same flywheel?
is there anything wrong with the tranny?
what tires are you running?
do you beat the **** out of it?
do you follow the proper break-in procedures?


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

TBT-Syncro said:


> well have they all been using the same flywheel?
> is there anything wrong with the tranny?
> what tires are you running?
> do you beat the **** out of it?
> do you follow the proper break-in procedures?


for the first 3 clutches i had a fidanza 5.5 flw and a lw crank pully.

i changed to the stock fw and stock pully for the last spec stage 3+

the tranny is cherry, i shift slow and it doesn't grind at all and the imput shaft has no play

im running 205/45/16 street tires made by maxxis.

very seldom i give it half pedal, when racing i maul it.

i usually run 2 tanks of gas in the city to break em in. then start beating. btw, i turn the boost to 4psi and open the wastegate so if it even hits boost it bleads off.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

1. you need to take more time to break them in. i always run NA mod for 300miles.
2. check out your clutch pedal/master. its possible that the actuator rod isnt moving in all the way, and the clutch is overheating as a result.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

they are breaking strap rivets, and nothing else.

2 tanks of gas is almost 600 miles.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

16V VW said:


> they are breaking strap rivets, and nothing else.


yeah, so. 

you've had the same problem on numerous clutches, so that implies there is probably 1 common thing that is causing the problem.

you need to look at the whole clutch system, as you've been replacing the other parts, and the problem persists.

:beer:


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## vwgolfracer26 (Nov 3, 2003)

I have seen strap rivets break from misshifting. Like going from 3rd back to 2nd while flooring it/racing. I had a spec pressure plate strap rivet break on me as well on a n/a vr. My friend broke same plate on his turbo vr. Iwouldn't buy spec. Spec = garbage.


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## dubbinmk2 (Jan 15, 2008)

doesnt sachs make performance clutches?


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i think is just junk rivet's and it sucks cause i have to do the labor. over and over and over............

then wait for the stuff to get shipped to me opcorn: opcorn: opcorn:

then put it in and drive :laugh:

break it some more :banghead:

wait for shipping opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:


repetition.


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## crashnburn987 (May 11, 2004)

vwgolfracer26 said:


> I have seen strap rivets break from misshifting. Like going from 3rd back to 2nd while flooring it/racing. I had a spec pressure plate strap rivet break on me as well on a n/a vr. My friend broke same plate on his turbo vr. Iwouldn't buy spec. Spec = garbage.



Been running a Spec clutch for 4 years now in my ABA-T. Zero problems.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

lol another one ehh?  I've been lazy and haven't taken mine apart yet....:beer:


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## padubbin421 (Apr 11, 2009)

s!ts beat bra.....he breaks it cause of me...i tell him to break it all the time....waterfest an vag fair...im just a bad influence sorry bro... but it rides so nice when im in it....:thumbup:


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## KubotaPowered (Jan 27, 2005)

Clutch dumps kill strap rivets. Don't beat the hell out of it and they will last, that being said, I pulled the Competition clutch out a year after I built the car for a Clutchnet Red. The Competition rivets were too tall to begin with and would've cracked the bellhousing had I spun the engine over or started it. It was so bad that I thought the engine had seized when I cracked the engine over by hand cause I couldn't move it either direction.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

padubbin421 said:


> s!ts beat bra.....he breaks it cause of me...i tell him to break it all the time....waterfest an vag fair...im just a bad influence sorry bro... but it rides so nice when im in it....:thumbup:


it rides nice cause i didn't take u to 140mph, hahaha.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i don't ever dump the clutch, and i shift slower than old people fuc$#g.


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## vwgolfracer26 (Nov 3, 2003)

16V VW said:


> i don't ever dump the clutch, and i shift slower than old people fuc$#g.


:laugh:


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

with 17-24 psi why do you need to spin the tires? i just do that in my camry. and if i race from a roll it's usually over before i even have to go into 3rd.


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Hmm I don't even use first or second  absolutely no traction


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i have passat gears in my car, im at 110mph in 3rd @7k

at the track i don't even go into 4th


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

Hmm I have a ccm i should try to look at the gauges next time


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## EL DRIFTO (Jul 11, 2004)

something is gonna give so i run bald over inflated radials
either way third gear is where it all starts & fourth is really close

i thought race shop or somebody bolts new straps on, i've never paid attention wtf would i need to
all of you are nuts :laugh:


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

twin disc= no straps. Only thing I havent broke.....street or strip. Easy to drive, very short pedal travel...


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i have short arms and deep pockets, i already has 600 into this stage 3+ clutch, next step is add 600 to it and get a twin. and i don't want to do that.


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

I would question the clutch actuation adjustment.... is it actually completely letting go or is it consistantly slipping the clutch slightly???


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

how do i check how much that baby is movin?


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## dub_slug (May 12, 2008)

mikebobelak said:


> twin disc= no straps. Only thing I havent broke.....street or strip. Easy to drive, very short pedal travel...


Which twin disc do you have? 
Doesn't clutchmasters have a fx700 super single? Risk of welding to the flywheel?? 
FYI: my clutchnet held up great @25psi... it wasn't until I started launching @ 5200 that it broke.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i thought they made 600$ clutches so you can beat the balls off of them when you want to. what pieces of crap. i have to spend 600 and drive like a f'n grandmother.

but however we have this 1,200$ option!


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

16V VW said:


> i think is just junk rivet's and it sucks cause i have to do the labor. over and over and over............


I think its a heat issue..... 
I'm not 100% sure how to check the slave cylinder to understand if it isn't fully releasing.

Let start with the rest of the clutch system. OEM or after market slave cylinder? OEM clutch fork? OEM throw out bearing?... stuff like that.

How does your throw out bearing look? Have you had to replace it becaues it was trashed? Does your fly wheel show any signs of heat (yellow/blue titanium color?), what about your pressure plates?

I agree that if you are trashing this many clutches, its not the clutch, nor your driving habbits (bc your not beating on it), I think you have something screwy in the system.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

GTijoejoe said:


> I think its a heat issue.....
> I'm not 100% sure how to check the slave cylinder to understand if it isn't fully releasing.
> 
> Let start with the rest of the clutch system. OEM or after market slave cylinder? OEM clutch fork? OEM throw out bearing?... stuff like that.
> ...


im running the factory slave and master, the oem clutch fork, and whatever throw out that comes with the clutch kit, the t/o looks great when i take it out. the pressure plates and the clutch disc always look great.

here is a pic of my 5.5 fidanza flywheel that i ran for 3 of the clutches, comp stg 5, comp stg4, spec 3plus. 










here are pics of all 4 clutches in order

stage 5


















Stage 4



















spec stage 3+




















the 4th clutch is just the same


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

I'm not a big fan of the outer ring on those last pictures.... Clutches are actually very similar to brakes, the wear marks are not uniform over the disk.

Did you get your flywheel resurfaced every time you installed/broke in a new clutch disk?

Other than that the flywheel is the only common part in your madness which isn't OEM...right? :what:

I'd be curious to find out if there is any difference between the depth/thickness of the flywheels. The surface from where it mounts to the crank to where it mounts the clutch plate...and the contact surface of the clutch disk.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

for the last clutch i used the factory flywheel, and the first comp clutch the stage 5 it was brand new fidanza, then i did the stage 4 and it was re done. and the spec stage 3+ on the fidanza i didn't get it done cause it only had 20 miles on it. the color ring was because of break in not complete.


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## mikebobelak (Apr 9, 2002)

dub_slug said:


> Which twin disc do you have?
> Doesn't clutchmasters have a fx700 super single? Risk of welding to the flywheel??
> FYI: my clutchnet held up great @25psi... it wasn't until I started launching @ 5200 that it broke.


Comp Clutch, no issues to date, other than it rattles at stop lights with the clutch in(normal)...
The rivits/bolts, just cannot handle the loads and RPM combined. We even had some crazy $$$ aircraft fastners installed, they lasted longer but still broke... I think when you inguage the clutch at "high" RPM's it doesnt drop prefectly flat,and starts to cavatate/shake/jerk. most of ours failed not on a launch, but when shifting to the next gear at the top end of the rpm range....


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

that should be in the vr6 diy page.

if you want to turbo over 8 psi expect to pay 1200+ for a twin disc clutch.


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## vwgolfracer26 (Nov 3, 2003)

Hey your not alone. I broke my first spec on all motor. Now i just broke the rivet on my act pressure plate. I mean now im boostin but i didn't even launch it i was just messing around on the highway.



















It really sucks. Im ordering a clutchnet setup tomorrow and if that doesn't work im getting a twin disc.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

16V VW said:


> that should be in the vr6 diy page.
> 
> if you want to turbo over 8 psi expect to pay 1200+ for a twin disc clutch.


you are the exception. I've never seen a single user on here having the sort of clutch troubles you're having. There are always random clutch failures, but never multiple from the same person running various clutches.

my car has been turbo'd for almost a decade, and is on it's 3rd clutch. My Competition stage 4 wore faster than i wanted, but it never had the rivet problems you're having (i'm generally in the 400-500hp range). I'm now running a Southbend stage 5, and loving it.


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

ahh, the joys. i gave up. i went thru over 10 pressure plates in my car, breaking rivets and straps, just as you were. 550whp/quaife six speed/street tires. mine always broke when i would slap the redline in 3rd gear and up. i believe that unloading the straps was causing the issue. dont know, dont care, im not trying to go fast in a fwd vw anymore. ps i beat the **** out of my car, so most likely it was my driving style contributing


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

your paying 600 bucks for a good clutch. i EXPECT it to take a beating.

why do they make them? to get babied? F#%$ THAT!

what is the point of putting higher dollar stuff on? hell i should just get a XTD or f1 racing clutch from ebay for 1/5th the price. atleast if it slips it wont shear rivets.


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

if this means anything, i took my spare trans apart and threw it back together with redline shockproof lightweight fluid, i have 190 miles on the new clutch in 2 days of city driving. im going to baby it untill after H20 then it's going to get slaughterd. if it breaks i want cash back and im going with a southbend stage 3 or just paying the 700-800 difference for a spec twin


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## RAINWAGEN (Sep 25, 2008)

Since u keep throwing money at clutches change your tranny


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

look a post up.


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## TBT-Syncro (Apr 28, 2001)

another item that will have effect, is of course your motor mounts. make sure they're all in good shape (and that the bolt out of the passenger side mount hasnt dropped)

:beer:


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## vwgolfracer26 (Nov 3, 2003)

has anyone ever had problems with southbend maybe ill order that?


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i have vf engineering mounts.

pic with the hood off was to make sure it was not moving around while driving under boost


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## xpalendocious (Nov 28, 2003)

vf mounts suck on big power cars. recommend upgraded inserts from vwmotorsport, bfi, etc that use the factory design. they hold up way better than that billet crap with 3mm allen head screws holding them together


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## Capt.Dreadz (Jun 4, 2003)

vwgolfracer26 said:


> I have seen strap rivets break from misshifting. Like going from 3rd back to 2nd while flooring it/racing. I had a spec pressure plate strap rivet break on me as well on a n/a vr. My friend broke same plate on his turbo vr. *Iwouldn't buy spec. Spec = garbage.*


%^##$ SPEC Clutch!!!


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## 16V VW (Aug 1, 2004)

i gave it 20 psi tonight after a tank and a half of break in. the bisch held up

i raced a new zo6 vette with 150 shot nitrous, cam, tune, exhaust, intake, header. and it was dead even. 

he sprayed from the 40 roll to 140mph then we backed off. $hit that thing was fast.


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