# Cranks, but no spark or fuel for 99 Jetta with 2.0 ABA motor



## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

Hello, I'm hoping some of the regulars out there can help me out with this one. I'm working on a friend's Jetta that originally had issues starting in wet weather. They were finally able to get it started one dry day and drove it over to me. I had my daughter pull it into the garage. She said it took her about 5 seconds worth of cranking for it to finally catch. When I got a chance to mess with it, it took me a few seconds too long to start it also. I took out my spray bottle with water and squirted the coil and distributor cap. I should have only squirted one thing at a time, but you know how that goes. I finally heard some arcing sounds coming from the coil area. The car started to stumble and died. I have not been able to start it since.

Things I have done: replaced the coil, wires, plugs, cap and rotor button. Still nothing. Not getting any spark when using a spare plug with one of the wires and grounding plug to the engine block. I performed some of the Bentley checks, such as: power going to primary coil at connecter (using volt meter), pulse at primary connector when cranking (LED test light), pulse at secondary coil contacts when cranking (LED test light), power from connector going to HALL at distributor (using volt meter), back probed HALL at distributor with it connected as saw a pulse (LED test light).

Things I'm unsure of: used my brother's generic scanner to pull codes. It had a bunch of short to ground and open circuit codes on things like the injectors and secondary air injection. I believe these codes were caused by my pulling fuse #18 and disconnecting injectors #1 and #4 for testing purposes. Also, swapped out coil with 2 new ones during testing. I cleared the codes using the scanner and they have not returned.

I tried using the scanner to watch some of the engine functions while cranking it over. It gave me some initial signals. I was able to see the engine speed rpm read in the 200's before the scanner started to flake out, so I assume the crankshaft position sensor is working. The scanner's screen would flash on and off - very similar to the way the LED test light does when probing the coil and HALL connectors during cranking. Then the scanner said it lost the connection to the ECU. I'm wondering if the ECU power is intermittent somehow during cranking. I've read where the ignition switch may cause a similar issue - not sure though.

I've checked fuses and don't see any blown. The #15 fuse did not power up for me until cranking. I have not been able to hear the fuel pump when I initially turn the key to the run position or during cranking. I was able to pull the relay and jumper pins 30 and 87 to get the pump to run. Also tried this while cranking the car over - no luck.

More info: Pulled cap to make sure rotor spins and it does. Also tried turning key to on position and jumping the starter wire to +Battery - no luck there (turns over, but does not run). In the process of trying to bump the starter over to get the rotor to cylinder #1, I noticed a new sound afterwards. It sounded like fuel running thru the fuel lines. This was a sound I had not heard since the no start issue (other than using jumper instead of fuel pump relay). I had bypassed the relay using a jumper early on in my testing and still wasn't able to start the car. I checked the rotor position, what appears to be a line on the flywheel, and the camshaft sprocket to timing mark. Everything appears correct.

I wanted to attempt more bumping of the starter using the key with everything reconnected, to get the fuel to activate again, but the battery was dying on me. I did scan the car again and had one pending code of P1500 - Fuel Pump Relay Circ Electrical Malfunction - I assume this is from the once or twice I heard the fuel running thru the lines.

Plan on buying a VCDS scanner from Ross Tech, but looks like they won't be able to ship until Jan 3rd when they get back from holiday break.

Thanks,
Tony


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## OddJobb (Nov 6, 2004)

No spark usually means there's an issue with the coil. Try putting the spare plug in the coil wire instead of a plug wire off the distributor. This will at least take the distributor and beyond out of the equation if you get no spark at the coil wire. Jumper the plug body to the - terminal on the battery, not the engine block when testing.

If you definitely do not get a spark, buying VCDS may be jumping the gun. Without the car being able to run your going to get codes that may point you in the wrong direction. Although VCDS is nice to have, shelling out $200+ for it may not pay off.

Have you tried to swap out the ECU? If you got the connector that plugs into the coil soaked, you may have fried the ECU.

The fuel pump sound is almost inaudible. I couldn't even hear mine with the access panel off. I'd focus on getting a spark first, then tackle fuel delivery if it sparks but does not run.


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2009)

I can only relate my experience after several weeks of sporadic no start condition. Here's wat fixed mine: pulling the plug on the security system. It's a pretty easy thing to test and it solved my problem.... My understanding is that on diesels the security system kills the fuel pump and on gas cars it kills spark. To get to it, here's what you need to do. 

- remove the cover panel that holds the fusepanel access hole. Two screws at the base of the bolster under the steering wheel and pull out of the clip that holds the other end.
- remove the plate to the left of the light switch so that you can see into the dash.
- kneel on the ground and reach up from underneath the dash to find the security system module. it's the furthest towards the outside of the car, and you should be able to see your hand thru the hole next to the light switch. IIRC the box is cream colored.
- there are two connectors. IIRC it was the upper connector which was more towards the outside of the car. One of the connectors when removed prevents the car from cranking. That's not the one you want disconnected...

FYI. If you do pull the connector, be aware that you'll lose the ability to lock your car with the fob. If you attempt to do that with the connector unplugged, it will set off the alarm and the only way to shut it off is to plug it back in. My car is 14 years old, has 146K on the clock and is banged up from an off road excursion in the snow. If locks aren't enough to discourage would be thieves, they're welcome to the car....


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## [email protected] (Jun 7, 2009)

FYI. Before checking this, I had:

- sprayed all my wires and distributor down and seen no problems
- replaced my fuel pump relay 
- soldered wires on to the old fuel pump relay so that I could validate proper voltages and could jumper the large connectors to force it to run.
- checked timing marks

One other thing to look at... When the car starts to crank, the tach should jump up and settle at about 200 rpm. This indicates the ECU is seeing a signal that it needs to see, but the alarm system must kill spark further down the line because mine still wouldn't start even seeing this. I didn't have the patience to read through the entire current flow diagram (available for 97 car on Bentley web site for free) to figure out what the full flow was.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks guys. I'll give those suggestions a shot. I may have a spare ECU that will work for this car, not 100% sure. I'll post back and let you know what I find.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

How much fuel is in the tank, and do you actually have fuel pressure at the rail? Have you pulled a plug or two to see what they look like after cranking? And you can throw a timing light on one of the wires to check for spark. I would also check the motor's mechanical timing, line everything up to TDC and see if they line up. Could be a belt that jumped or a bad crank sprocket key.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

I'll check those again. I missed checking the flywheel mark against the crank pulley to make sure they still lined up (in case the sprocket key is damaged). Also, in case it is the ECU, I have a spare. The one in the car has 037 906 259 Q and the spare has 037 906 259 AA. Should they be compatible?

Also, I did try disconnecting the upper connector from the beige box behind the headlight switch. No luck disabling the immobilizer controls.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

Timing marks line up. The 'O' on the flywheel lines up with the tranny bellhousing mark, rotor is pointing at slot on distributor, tick mark on crank pully lines up with arrow on lower timing cover and 'O-T' lines up with upper timing cover mark.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

Is this a mkIII or mkIV? mkIII does not have immo, and you cannot disable immo w/o recoding ECU, as I understand it. You can bypass alarm module, in a mkIII, but all that gains you is no alarm, mkIII alarm is just the noise, no immo.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

It's an mkIII. Yeah, I think my manual only shows the immobilizer for the Cabrio from 1999 up. I'm still considering the ECU swap if no one thinks I could damage my spare.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

What about fuel? I have seen fuel gauges read at or slightly above the red and be out of fuel.

Still, what about fuel pressure and the plugs after cranking, are they wet? And what about timing with a light and ability to check for spark with the light?


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

Plenty of fuel in the tank. Believe it's about half full. I could hear it sloshing around when I pushed and pulled the car in 3rd gear to get the timing marks to line up.


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## OddJobb (Nov 6, 2004)

ps2375 said:


> Is this a mkIII or mkIV? mkIII does not have immo, and you cannot disable immo w/o recoding ECU, as I understand it. You can bypass alarm module, in a mkIII, but all that gains you is no alarm, mkIII alarm is just the noise, no immo.


Wrong. All MKIII's have immobilizers. You can bypass the module. Instructions on that here:

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/jettatech/alarmcentralhelp/alarmhelp2.htm

Just curious...in what state are you located?


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

I'm located in Columbus, OH.

Thanks for the post. Based on the article, my alarm system is not the issue since the car cranks. I still have a few other items to check. Been backed up with some of my other cars.

I have:
2004 Chevy Venture piece o' sh**t (just blew head gaskets at 200k)
1997 VR6 GTI (small coolant leak at lower rad hose)
1983 Rabbit 1.7L (needs upper strut bearing and has an idle issue after highway driving)
2005.5 Jetta (daughter would like her christmas stereo installed at some point)

Lucky me. :banghead:


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## zero. (Aug 14, 2001)

Does the tach move at all when you crank? If not, it's most likely the crank sensor (engine speed sensor). It will cause crank/no start and I'm pretty sure it cuts fuel and spark when it's bad. You can test at the ECU connector on pins 67 and 68. Resistance should be between 500-700 ohms.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

The tach does move. Looks to hold at around 200 rpm's when cranking. I'll ohm it out when I get home tonight.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

I broke down and bought a factory Temic coil. Still no luck. I checked the resistance at pins 67 and 68 at the ECU and get a reading of 880 ohms for the crank position sensor (engine speed/rpm sensor). Is that close enough to be within spec?

Now that I have a factory coil and I'm sure I won't fry my spare ECU, I was thinking I would try swapping them. The one in the car has 037 906 259 Q and the spare has 037 906 259 AA. Anybody out there see any reasons why I shouldn't try the ECU?


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## zero. (Aug 14, 2001)

tbeitzinger said:


> Is that close enough to be within spec?


Per Bentley, if it is not within 500-700 ohms it is bad.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

Yeah, I saw that. Guess I thought that it was close enough to be within range.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

I had previously found a PDF for testing the G28 speed sensor. The doc said that the allowed values were from 480 to 1000 ohms. Probably shouldn't have trusted posted documentation for a generic scan tool.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

Also, does anyone have an updated "Table d. Motronic ECM Electrical Tests" table ? I was trying to go step by step thru the electrical tests in the Fuel Injection-Motronic section starting on page 24a-12 of my Bentley manual.

I don't have pins 9 and 55 in my ECM connector. Also, this Jetta doesn't have the #109 relay in position #3 on the fuse panel. Not sure how I can jumper items such as the fuel pump relay and power supply relay without these pins.

Thanks


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

I broke down and tried my spare ECU. The car fired right up. It idled a little rough, but I assume it's from multiple times cranking without starting or the throttle adaption needs performed. I'm going to try swapping in the old ECU just to see if it was a connection issue, but I doubt it. The new one did throw a CEL right before I turned it off. Hopefully I won't have to have the ECU coded for accessories present/not present.

I'll post the final outcome when it's good to go.


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## zero. (Aug 14, 2001)

My Bentley is old so can't help on updated tests. The power supply relay isn't on a lot of mk3s though and is optional.


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## tbeitzinger (Jun 6, 2011)

Went for a test drive after letting it run for a while. Car runs fine. It shows P1613 when scanned. I assume it's because it's coded for a car of another type - possibly an automatic while mine is a 5-spd.

Can this only be checked with a VCDS scanner? Now that it's running, I can drive it to a friend's shop that has a high-end snap-on scanner.

Any thoughts?


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## zero. (Aug 14, 2001)

You can change the coding with vagcom. I think manual is all zeros.


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