# Turbo failure



## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Had excessive in and out play, looks like was starved of oil too... ran 0.65" restrictor journal bearing t3.









What could cause the discoloration of the shaft? not enough oil, bad drain, or not enough cool down time?

Here's the picture of my drain -10AN


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

was this the new PTE turbo?


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> was this the new PTE turbo?


Lol no that's my old 50 trim


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

You don't run a restrictor with " most " journal bearings :facepalm:

The only exception is with engines that have extremely high oil pressures, then a restrictor is sometimes needed. There are exceptions as mentioned...but it looks like yours is not one of them.

BTW. a little known fact is that a lot of journal turbo's *already * have a restriction built into the oil feed. They don't need another one added. Link from a Mopar forum but same oil feed machining used in most journal bearing turbo's.

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/turbo-faq.php











Edit: Just an FYI. You need a -4 AN size oil feed line to a journal bearing turbo as well. -3 AN is too small.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> You don't run a restrictor with " most " journal bearings :facepalm:
> 
> The only exception is with engines that have extremely high oil pressures, then a restrictor is sometimes needed. There are exceptions as mentioned...but it looks like yours is not one of them.
> 
> ...


I have a -4an feed and from what I've read it's a back and forth battle about running a restrictor. Now I'm installing 5557e PTE, and a new oil pump. Would I need to one or no?


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

codergfx said:


> I have a -4an feed and from what I've read it's a back and forth battle about running a restrictor. Now I'm installing 5557e PTE, and a new oil pump. Would I need to one or no?


E-mail Precision and ask their Tech department. Get them to specify size of restrictor if they say that you have to run one. Save the e-mail in case of any warranty issues. 

Wasn't there a thread fairly recently on the 1.8T forum regarding Precisions quality issues? Particularly the poor seals?

Edit: Did some searching on DSM forums and found that indeed a lot of guys are having issues with Precision Turbos. Seal design and quality is a big issue. If you haven't already bought the turbo you may want to rethink this. Garrett is always a good choice.

BTW. On the Precision journal bearing turbo's it seems the .065" restrictor with a -4 AN line is a bit too small. One DSM member reported blowing two Precision Turbo's due to lack of oil with an .065" restrictor. His solution was to run a .078" restrictor and he has reported no problems since. Take it with a grain of salt. And of course..what works on a DSM may not work on a VW. Engine oil pressure plays a big part here. 

Personally I would be nervous about running any restrictor on a journal bearing turbo...unless I actually encounter a problem with leaking seals due to excessive engine oil pressure. 

Much easier to replace a leaking seal ( If it's damaged...which may not happen ) and then go with a large orifice restrictor if needed ( .125" to start ). You can always reduce the restrictor orifice size if the initial one is too big. Note: this is ONLY if the turbo oil seal leaks with no restrictor at all


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> E-mail Precision and ask their Tech department. Get them to specify size of restrictor if they say that you have to run one. Save the e-mail in case of any warranty issues.
> 
> Wasn't there a thread fairly recently on the 1.8T forum regarding Precisions quality issues? Particularly the poor seals?
> 
> ...


sadly i already have the turbo, but i found a few holset hx35s and h1c's here locally fairly cheap may run one of those. But so far Ive asked quite a bit of people here on vortex and another guy who rebuilds turbos for living. All of them recommended to run a restrictor.. including arnold from pag parts. Which is why im kind of torn on the decision of whether to run one or not. 

How long of having to much oil pressure can ruin the seals permanently?


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

codergfx said:


> sadly i already have the turbo, but i found a few holset hx35s and h1c's here locally fairly cheap may run one of those. But so far Ive asked quite a bit of people here on vortex and another guy who rebuilds turbos for living. All of them recommended to run a restrictor.. including arnold from pag parts. Which is why im kind of torn on the decision of whether to run one or not.
> 
> How long of having to much oil pressure can ruin the seals permanently?


Well, Arnold and the Turbo rebuilder should know better than me. Did they say what size for a journal bearing? 

Here's something to think about though. Does the stock KKK journal turbo run an add -on restrictor? The answer of course is no. Something to think about.

And again we go back to the old argument. Garrett says not to run a restrictor on a journal bearing turbo's unless the engine has excessive oil pressure. Garrett will tell you the oil pressure limits if you e-mail their tech center:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/faq

Quote from Garrett FAQ:

Q. Does my turbo require an oil restrictor?

A. Oil requirements depend on the turbo's bearing system type. Garrett has two types of bearing systems; traditional journal bearing; and ball bearing. The journal bearing system in a turbo functions very similarly to the rod or crank bearings in an engine. These bearings require enough oil pressure to keep the components separated by a hydrodynamic film. If the oil pressure is too low, the metal components will come in contact causing premature wear and ultimately failure. If the oil pressure is too high, leakage may occur from the turbocharger seals.*With that as background, an oil restrictor is generally not needed for a journal-bearing turbocharger except for those applications with oil-pressure-induced seal leakage.* Remember to address all other potential causes of leakage first (e.g., inadequate/improper oil drain out of the turbocharger, excessive crankcase pressure, turbocharger past its useful service life, etc.) and use a *restrictor as a last resort.* Garrett distributors can tell you the recommended range of acceptable oil pressures for your particular turbo. Restrictor size will always depend on how much oil pressure your engine is generating-*there is no single restrictor size suited for all engines.*

Ball-bearing turbochargers can benefit from the addition of an oil restrictor, as most engines deliver more pressure than a ball bearing turbo requires. The benefit is seen in improved boost response due to less windage of oil in the bearing. In addition, lower oil flow further reduces the risk of oil leakage compared to journal-bearing turbochargers. Oil pressure entering a ball-bearing turbocharger needs to be between 40 psi and 45 psi at the maximum engine operating speed. For many common passenger vehicle engines, this generally translates into a restrictor with a minimum of 0.040" diameter orifice upstream of the oil inlet on the turbocharger center section. Again, it is imperative that the restrictor be sized according to the oil pressure characteristics of the engine to which the turbo is attached. Always verify that the appropriate oil pressure is reaching the turbo. The use of an oil restrictor can (but not always) help ensure that you have the proper oil flow/pressure entering the turbocharger, as well as extract the maximum performance.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> Well, Arnold and the Turbo rebuilder should know better than me. Did they say what size for a journal bearing?
> 
> Here's something to think about though. Does the stock KKK journal turbo run an add -on restrictor? The answer of course is no. Something to think about.
> 
> And again we go back to the old argument. Garret says not to run a restrictor on a journal bearing turbo's unless the engine has excessive oil pressure. But they don't specify what excessive oil pressure is. And if course different turbo manufacturers have different turbo seal designs and quality.


I'm unsure about the size but say I don't run a restrictor and oil starts backing thru the seals, would that mean my seals are now Fooked? And the pics above are also running my old 170k mile oil pump. But I'm wondering if pressure would be higher on this new one... Hmm

I'm starting to think I should just get a oil pressure gauge to decide whether to run one or not.


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

codergfx said:


> I'm unsure about the size but say I don't run a restrictor and oil starts backing thru the seals, would that mean my seals are now Fooked? And the pics above are also running my old 170k mile oil pump. But I'm wondering if pressure would be higher on this new one... Hmm


Can't answer the seal question about being permanently fracked. I suppose it depends on how long you run it like that. But new seals are a lot cheaper than a new turbo.

BTW: Do you have an oil pressure gauge on the engine? Edit: Ooops..just saw that you didn't


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

It's actually surprising how few VW/Audi guys seem to run an oil pressure gauge. Everyone monitors boost, A/F, EGT etc..but few seem to run an Oil pressure gauge. Weird...considering it's the life blood of an engine :screwy:


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

On a journal bearing Turbo, it also matters if the CHRA is water cooled or not. If no water cooling, then the Turbo relies 100% on a healthy flow of oil to cool the center bearings. 

I call :bs: on any one recommending a restrictor on a oil cooled only turbo...particularly if the engine oil pressure is not known.

360 degree oil seals are thrust washers also a lot better than the old 270 degree style.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> It's actually surprising how few VW/Audi guys seem to run an oil pressure gauge. Everyone monitors boost, A/F, EGT etc..but few seem to run an Oil pressure gauge. Weird...considering it's the life blood of an engine :screwy:


I noticed that well time to look for some oil pressure gauges! Anyone know -4an Tee with a female 1/8npt ?

On a side note, how does my drain look?


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

from 2008 to 2011 I was running a Precision PT61 journal bearing turbo on my vrt with a journal bearing oil restrictor I bought from ATPturbo and when I took the the turbo off to upgrade it had minimal play on the exhaust side and none on the compressor side... that is awesome from a 3 year old turbo(sold it and it still boosting now) ... I have an oil pressure gauge and idle is around 25-30psi, part throttle is around 50 and wot is 70-80+


I know Precision has been having problems with its journal bearing turbos blowing seals from having to much oil pressure but I still bought Precision's 67mm journal bearing turbo for my vrt and loving it! I am using an oil restrictor as well on it but I drilled the .065 restrictor a little bigger to about .075-.080...

my experience with jb precisions...


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

PjS860ct said:


> from 2008 to 2011 I was running a Precision PT61 journal bearing turbo on my vrt with a journal bearing oil restrictor I bought from ATPturbo and when I took the the turbo off to upgrade it had minimal play on the exhaust side and none on the compressor side... that is awesome from a 3 year old turbo(sold it and it still boosting now) ... I have an oil pressure gauge and idle is around 25-30psi, part throttle is around 50 and wot is 70-80+
> 
> 
> I know Precision has been having problems with its journal bearing turbos blowing seals from having to much oil pressure but I still bought Precision's 67mm journal bearing turbo for my vrt and loving it! I am using an oil restrictor as well on it but I drilled the .065 restrictor a little bigger to about .075-.080...
> ...


Yea that's what I was thinking drilling it out


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

codergfx said:


> I noticed that well time to look for some oil pressure gauges! Anyone know -4an Tee with a female 1/8npt ?
> 
> On a side note, how does my drain look?


Regarding tee. Tons of stuff. Russel is one supplier: http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/fit_tee.shtml 

You could order from Summit.

Regarding drain. Doesn't look bad, but every bend reduces flow. Especially 90 degree bends. I count two 90 degree bends and one 45 degree. Could be improved.

Do you have room to get rid of the stock tube with the two 90 degree bends and replace it with AN -10 braided hose straight to the sump?

If you have room, a straight fitting is the best for flow. Second best is 45 degree. Worst is 90 degree or higher. Can the 45 degree turbo fitting be replaced with a straight fitting? You'll may have to run a single 45 degree at the sump, but if you have room use a straight fitting..


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

run a restrictor, don't be stupid :facepalm: .065 will be fine most likely.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> Regarding tee. Tons of stuff. Russel is one supplier: http://www.russellperformance.com/mc/adapt_fit/fit_tee.shtml
> 
> You could order from Summit.
> 
> ...


i believe i could run a straight ill have to see how i can improve it when i put the engine in, i had an issue with it touching the axle towards the bottom of the oil pan.. thanks for your insight though!


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Big_Tom said:


> run a restrictor, don't be stupid :facepalm: .065 will be fine most likely.


Apparently not....065" was what he was running. On a T3 journal bearing Turbo. First sentence of OP.

With respect...are you disagreeing with the Garrett engineers? :what:


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## PjS860ct (Dec 22, 2002)

I think he is speaking from experience... and who cares about what the engineers from Garrett, Precisions and other turbo companies has to say lol we are the ones that put these turbos on our engines... So we know from experience what works and what fails :beer::beer::beer:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Chickenman35 said:


> Apparently not....065" was what he was running. On a T3 journal bearing Turbo. First sentence of OP.
> 
> With respect...are you disagreeing with the Garrett engineers? :what:


i may just drill it out to something bigger then .065, also as i mentioned before this was on my old oil pump, im sure brand new one will be making higher oil pressure.


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

codergfx said:


> i may just drill it out to something bigger then .065, also as i mentioned before this was on my old oil pump, im sure brand new one will be making higher oil pressure.


Some people get away running without restrictor and others have good luck with the restrictor so not wanting to run the risk I bought a 0.065 restrictor and drilled it ou between .065 and full flow - 4an 

has been running that way for around 15k without a problem :thumbup:


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

Take a look at this thread, there is ample information specific to Precision turbos and restrictor use.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...strictor/page4&highlight=precision+restrictor

In general Precision journals are iffy and there is no hard & fast rule about using restrictors. I know several people who have toasted them due to restrictor use and likewise I know several people who have blown seals due to not using restrictors. 

You need to monitor the actual car/setup and determine if you need a restrictor or not. I would not default to using a restrictor on a Precision journal turbo if I have not tried to run it without one first (that voids their warrantee). Ideally their turbos are *designed to be run without restrictors *however we have proved here over and over again that they are needed on certain setups. If you are considering using a restrictor I would still caution about the overall diameter of the restrictor as those turbos toast very quickly if you starve them.


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Chickenman35 said:


> On a journal bearing Turbo, it also matters if the CHRA is water cooled or not. If no water cooling, then the Turbo relies 100% on a healthy flow of oil to cool the center bearings.
> 
> I call :bs: on any one recommending a restrictor on a oil cooled only turbo...particularly if the engine oil pressure is not known.
> 
> 360 degree oil seals are also a lot better than the old 270 degree style.


I think it was the thrust washer that is now 360 degrees, not the oil seal. If your oil seal ring was 270 degrees you would have problems.


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## V-dubbulyuh (Nov 13, 2005)

GinsterMan98 said:


> If your oil seal ring was 270 degrees you would have problems.


:laugh:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Chickenman35 said:


> Apparently not....065" was what he was running. On a T3 journal bearing Turbo. First sentence of OP.
> 
> With respect...are you disagreeing with the Garrett engineers? :what:


:facepalm: don't believe everything you read online. also FYI the op's original turbo was an EBAY turbo.  draw ur own conclusions or you can call garrett, precison, etc and ask them :laugh:

the restrictor is not the problem here BRO


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> :facepalm: don't believe everything you read online. also FYI the op's original turbo was an EBAY turbo.  draw ur own conclusions or you can call garrett, precison, etc and ask them :laugh:
> 
> the restrictor is not the problem here BRO


Tom but none the less, the shaft could only look like that from not enough oil right?!


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

codergfx said:


> Tom but none the less, the shaft could only look like that from not enough oil right?!


no. it could also be inferior parts. whats that shaft made out of? i doubt the bearing quality is on par w/ garrett, mhi, etc. these things go for 100-150 on ebay for a reason. quality materials alone would cost more than that, then mfg expenses, etc. don't be worried about why ur ebay turbo failed, it's like trying to squeeze water from a rock. get something nicer and enjoy ur car :thumbup:


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> no. it could also be inferior parts. whats that shaft made out of? i doubt the bearing quality is on par w/ garrett, mhi, etc. these things go for 100-150 on ebay for a reason. quality materials alone would cost more than that, then mfg expenses, etc. don't be worried about why ur ebay turbo failed, it's like trying to squeeze water from a rock. get something nicer and enjoy ur car :thumbup:


yea i know lol im just trying not to have the new turbo blow... :thumbup: oh ya and got back an email back from precision they said

"David,
You don't run a restrictor on a journal bearing turbo. If you do you will void the warranty and end up damaging the turbo." 

And when I said what if the oil blows past the seals their answer was,

"You can't blow seals in a turbo. They aren't rubber o-rings. They are dynamic seals, basically like a piston ring. So if you get oil going by them on a new turbo then it isn't the turbo, it is the set-up."


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

I wouldn't run one personally..


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

1) PTE turbo's suck regardless as far as quality so if it smokes I still wouldn't blame the restrictor. their "techs" have already proven themselves to be idiots on previous occasions. no wonder they tell every one you don't need a restrictor and their turbos fail/smoke a lot
2) AFAIK everytime you cold start your car, the oil pressure is pretty high until the oil gets warm. this is when your turbo is vulnerable. A restrictor helps protect your turbo from this. it's not so much for when the car is warm. In some cases the oil pressure will be in spec when the car is warm, but oil pressure varies from car to car.
3)a .065" restrictor is a pretty good size, it's the most common fot t3/t4's. GT series MUST use a diff size. most people who have problems aren't running restrictors.
4)read this http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/faq
5)it's your money, your car, your turbo, have fun
6)for the record i will never participate in "should i run a restrictor" discussion again :wave:


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

also, my garrett journal bearing 50 has a little over 50,000 miles on it. I put 45k on it myself(i bought it used never had it rebuilt), it's been run with a restrictor up north and down here. That thing is as fresh as the day i got it with a little over 5k on it


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> 1) PTE turbo's suck regardless as far as quality so if it smokes I still wouldn't blame the restrictor. their "techs" have already proven themselves to be idiots on previous occasions. no wonder they tell every one you don't need a restrictor and their turbos fail/smoke a lot
> 2) AFAIK everytime you cold start your car, the oil pressure is pretty high until the oil gets warm. this is when your turbo is vulnerable. A restrictor helps protect your turbo from this. it's not so much for when the car is warm. In some cases the oil pressure will be in spec when the car is warm, but oil pressure varies from car to car.
> 3)a .065" restrictor is a pretty good size, it's the most common fot t3/t4's. GT series MUST use a diff size. most people who have problems aren't running restrictors.
> 4)read this http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/faq
> ...


That's what I was sayin lol PTE support bleh made me lol. There weren't that many discussions for vw's on this topic, thanks anyways Tom! :beer:


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

Big_Tom said:


> also, my garrett journal bearing 50 has a little over 50,000 miles on it. I put 45k on it myself(i bought it used never had it rebuilt), it's been run with a restrictor up north and down here. That thing is as fresh as the day i got it with a little over 5k on it


As point of reference to back what Tom mentions above. I would also consider Arnold a reputable source of information regarding said subject...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5059659-S362-Oil-Restrictor&highlight=oil+restrictor


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks alot guys im since i do have a brand new oil pump I'll install a restrictor and go from there.

What Would be the effects of using thicker oil on oil pressure?


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

Thicker oil equates to higher oil pressure ultimately....


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Fast929 said:


> Thicker oil equates to higher oil pressure ultimately....


Cuz those pics are with me running 10w30 castrol synthetic oil


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

On my setup, I'll be running -4 AN feed with an .080" restrictor. JB setup.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Fast929 said:


> On my setup, I'll be running -4 AN feed with an .080" restrictor. JB setup.


Yea I ordered 5/64 drill bit .079 or whatev gonna drill mine out


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

GinsterMan98 said:


> I think it was the thrust washer that is now 360 degrees, not the oil seal. If your oil seal ring was 270 degrees you would have problems.


May the fleas of a thousand Camels infest your armpits...  

Ok fixed.. was very tired when I wrote that :facepalm:


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## GinsterMan98 (May 19, 2008)

Chickenman35 said:


> May the fleas of a thousand Camels infest your armpits...
> 
> Ok fixed.. was very tired when I wrote that :facepalm:


Must....Resist....Obvious! Couldn't help myself.:laugh:


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## vr-vagman (May 15, 2010)

Some old books state also that you should never run restrictor on turbo oil feed line. A small particle or dirt or... if get clogged will block the flow easily. The better solution is to run pressure relief valve located on T-piece but never restrictor.
Just my 2c


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

Another book recommends filtering said feed line restrictor or not


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

why not hook up a pressure sender in-line to the turbo oil feed..... that way you know what pressure you're running to the turbo in all conditions. In-line AN 1/8 NPT adapter fittings are what.... $15?

Then you'll definitely know if you need a restrictor / what size / etc etc


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Yea thats what I was thinkin to do, I was also thinking would a pressure regulAting valve work?


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

You may want to have a thorough read of this link. Has some very good info on drain adapter sizing from some of the DSM forums. " Your oil drain is too small "

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...bo-users-your-oil-drain-may-too-small-13.html 

A lot of issues with having to run restrictors on *some* journal bearing turbo's is in fact related to inadequate oil drainage. Oil drainage is by gravity only, and getting rid of that frothy air/oil mixture is not an easy task.

The popular -10 aluminum adapters sold by many suppliers have a far smaller hole than what is designed by the turbo manufacturer. Have a look at the T3/T4 oil drain hole on the Turbo side and then match it up with what the adapter drain hole size is. There is a big discrepancy.

A -12 or 3/4 drain hose is a much better size. You also have to be careful what type of fitting you use. Fittings with a pipe thread ( two piece fitting ) are the worst because pipe fittings have thick walls. An fittings are better, but even those can be restrictive, unless you buy the High Flow thin wall type in steel. Best type of adapter for flow are the ones with a simple thin wall tube that you clamp the hose on to.

In the " Old days" before the readily available ( and cheap ) adapters, people used to fabricate there own drain adapters. And the smart ones made sure that the hole size was the same on both adapter and turbo. Not the same these days if you use these cheap adapters.

Where the oil pan fitting goes is very important. All Turbo manufacturers have in their technical specifications that the oil drain, into the sump, must be ABOVE the oil level in the sump.

But ironically, it appears that some VW sumps have the drain inlet to the sump below the oil level. It will work...but not as well as it should, and is probably the reason for many issues with oil leakage from the seals. Adding a restrictor solves the issue, but in reality is a Band-Aid fix. The real issue is poor oil drainage. Adding a restrictor is a *last resort * solution...and this is according to Garrett, IHI, Holset etc. 

A journal bearing requires a *lot of oil volume*...not for lubrication as some people think...but for *cooling*. Especially if it's an older design such as a T3 series without a water cooled CHRA. The oil is the only thing cooling the center shaft. 

OP is a perfect example of what happens when you start to restrict oil to a journal bearing turbo to solve a drainage problem. Center shaft overheated.

What need to be done is a rethink on oil drainage systems. Get rid of the small, restrictive -10 Chinese adapters.

1: -12 AN or 3/4 drain hose. -10 will work if system is perfect. See #2 and #3

2: No 90 degree bends or even 45 degree bend if at all possible. A nice big curved hose radius all the way to the sump. If you have to use a 45 AN degree fitting, use a high flow tube type, not a cast bend. Spend the extra bucks and buy a top quality product in thin wall steel. Avoid fittings that use pipe threads at all costs. Pipe threads require thick walls and restrict flow.

3: Make sure that the oil return to the sump is actually above the oil level. If it isn't...modify things so that it is. VW really screwed up in this area on some cars. 

4: Do run a closed PCV system on street cars. The negative crankcase pressure created by a properly functioning PCV system really helps in oil drainage from the turbo.

Juts my .02c . You can ignore it if you want, but I've got a car I'm got to work on :laugh:


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

BTW, I've found several small hard core manufactures that make a -12 AN ( 3/4" ) Turbo drain adapters for T6 turbo's. Bolt hole center to center distance looks to be the same as a T3/T4. Only problem is that they are made for threaded pipe fittings, which are not ideal. Better that a -10 pipe thread adapter though.

http://www.racepartsolutions.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPS-T6ODF


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## 24vGTiVR6 (Sep 14, 2010)

I installed a pressure gauge with an adapter fitting I had laying around (out of curiosity)...... but it's getting weird readings. I just basically unscrewed the -4 feed at the turbo, installed the adapter + pressure sender, hooked up a gauge and re-connected the -4 feed to the adapter.

I'm getting ~35 psi when I'm on the gas and 0 when idle??? I should be much higher right (24v)? Or maybe the way I installed the fittings is causing bad readings? (running 5w40) No blue smoke or any burning smells tho....

Just wondering in case anyone else tries. I'm gonna go out to the garage and install the pressure sender to my 42DD relocation block and see if it reads differently.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

I tried looking for a -12 an line pieces but seems like all turbo drain fittings come in -10 an


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

Chickenman35 said:


> BTW, I've found several small hard core manufactures that make a -12 AN ( 3/4" ) Turbo drain adapters for T6 turbo's. Bolt hole center to center distance looks to be the same as a T3/T4. Only problem is that they are made for threaded pipe fittings, which are not ideal. Better that a -10 pipe thread adapter though.
> 
> http://www.racepartsolutions.com/proddetail.asp?prod=RPS-T6ODF


I agree 100%. I'm running 3/4" Swagelok fittings with .020" wall annealed stainless hard line. I'm not down with reinforced hosing as the ID is so closed down, flow blows. I should have a minimum ID of .600".

Oil feed is 1/4" ~.230" ID hardline to a 1/4"npt swage at the turbo with an .080" custom drilled restrictor. I'll be taking a look at system pressure via a pressure sender post restrictor. Way to roll! :thumbup:


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

Fast929 said:


> I agree 100%. I'm running 3/4" Swagelok fittings with .020" wall annealed stainless hard line. I'm not down with reinforced hosing as the ID is so closed down, flow blows. I should have a minimum ID of .600".
> 
> Oil feed is 1/4" ~.230" ID hardline to a 1/4"npt swage at the turbo with an .080" custom drilled restrictor. I'll be taking a look at system pressure via a pressure sender post restrictor. Way to roll! :thumbup:


I just touched base with some of buddies of mine, who have been running running Garrett T3/T4 and Holset journal bearing Turbo's for years on the street. None of them runs a restrictor, but all have big A** drains.

One is a factory Pontiac 301ci Turbo Trans-Am V8 boosted to 20 psi with modified T4. Factory mounting position which is high on engine. GM factory Turbo drain is 3/4" thin wall tubing running straight down into engine valley cover. Car has never had any seal leakage issues and Pontiacs run fairly high oil pressures. 80 psi hot.

Second car is a Datsun 510 with an L20B ( 2000 cc ) running a T3/T4 with Meth, big FMIC and 100+ Octane fuel. 10.5 to 1 Comp ratio. Runs 18 psi. 14 psi on 94 Octane pump gas. Drain hose is -12 AN. All straight high flow AN fittings, and oil pan return is well above oil level. Car has been run on the street and track ( Autocross, Hillclimbs ) for over 20 years. 70 psi hot oil pressure. No restrictor and never any seal leakage issues.

Third car is a 1992 Eagle Talon. Holset Turbo with 7/8" drain hose. Custom made steel adapters to turbo drain with welded on thin wall tube. No AN hose. High temp silicon with clamps. 70 to 75 psi hot oil pressure. Oil return in pan well above oil level. No seal issues either.

Interesting to note that all of these owners went with custom fabricated drain systems as they found nothing acceptable from aftermarket suppliers. All decided that -10 was too small. Pontiac ran factory GM drain system as it was adequately designed and sized. 

Some food for thought there...


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## Chickenman35 (Jul 28, 2006)

codergfx said:


> I tried looking for a -12 an line pieces but seems like all turbo drain fittings come in -10 an


You can find steel 3/4" drain adapters for Garrett T series and Holset's. Weld a thin wall tube in and use high temp silicon hose. Clamps work fine.

I did find a link for T6 aluminum adapters...but I don't like the pipe thread fittings. The walls on the male pipe thread are too thick and restrict flow. Haven't found any -12 AN threaded adapters from VW sources. Gonna forget about them and check out DSM sources. 

DSM suppliers and some of the big V8 suppliers seem to have more hand fabricated parts.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

you dudes are thinking WAY too hard :facepalm: -10an is plenty big enough. also i run 10w30 oil so my oil pressure is prob a little higher than a lot of you. also the .065 restrictor is plenty big enough, thats not near the smallest restrictor u can buy. as i stated before GT turbos use smaller. as AL @ pag said, if ur using a .065" restrictor and are having problems on a 1.8t something is wrong with your setup. it pretty much as simple as that. also, like i said before the original turbo was an ebay turbo so blaming an oil restrictor for failure is pointless. you might as well try to teach ur dog to drive a 5-spd :screwy:


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

Considering I see ~20 posts a day regarding sealing issues on various forums involving more than our little VWs, I feel like its clearly more widespread than your comprehending.

I'm not running a little 50 trim either. Mines already setup to run a big 1/2npt return so I drilled Swage open to .600" ID. Considering AL and I spoke regarding my setup and he verified the -4AN feed w/.080" restrictor on my big shaft setup. I'm sure I'll be OK.


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

Fast929 said:


> Considering I see ~20 posts a day regarding sealing issues on various forums involving more than our little VWs, I feel like its clearly more widespread than your comprehending.
> 
> I'm not running a little 50 trim either. Mines already setup to run a big 1/2npt return so I drilled Swage open to .600" ID. Considering AL and I spoke regarding my setup and he verified the -4AN feed w/.080" restrictor on my big shaft setup. I'm sure I'll be OK.


well of course if you have a larger than average turbo you will need larger than average lines. i agree. but for t3/t4's gt30's, gt28's etc -4an feed and -10an drains are usually fine. just run the proper restrictor and you should be fine if your oil system is in spec


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

Big_Tom said:


> well of course if you have a larger than average turbo you will need larger than average lines. i agree. but for t3/t4's gt30's, gt28's etc -4an feed and -10an drains are usually fine. just run the proper restrictor and you should be fine if your oil system is in spec


Since I have now a new oil pump my system should be good well see. How it goes. Im also going to redo my drain get rid of all the bends all together and make it a smooth curve.


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

With all the issues; I wonder why guys don't run an oil pressure regulator on the Turbo supply line. 

Set it to the Turbo manufacturers recommended psi, and call it a day.


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## codergfx (Jan 11, 2009)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> With all the issues; I wonder why guys don't run an oil pressure regulator on the Turbo supply line.
> 
> Set it to the Turbo manufacturers recommended psi, and call it a day.


Exactly I was thinkin


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## Big_Tom (Aug 19, 2007)

codergfx said:


> Since I have now a new oil pump my system should be good well see. How it goes. Im also going to redo my drain get rid of all the bends all together and make it a smooth curve.


this would be a good idea. if you have bends in your oil return line that could cause u to smoke. also about that breather on the valvecover, no you cannot cap it off at all. it has to be open or have vacuum applied to it at all times. either run a hose to the ground from that too or use a breather filter


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

dubinsincuwereindiapers said:


> With all the issues; I wonder why guys don't run an oil pressure regulator on the Turbo supply line.
> 
> Set it to the Turbo manufacturers recommended psi, and call it a day.


I will be ;-)


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

stop braggin bastard:wave::heart:


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> stop braggin bastard:wave::heart:


You drunk again duder!? :wave:


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## Vegeta Gti (Feb 13, 2003)

lol, nah..just got back from 2 mri's and a cat scan...so stiff and sore. 


Arnold is someone people should listen to, but with the kotex, it's all about hype and less about the real eal. guys who have been in the game as long as the mjority of posters here have been alive


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## dubinsincuwereindiapers (Jan 16, 2008)

Vegeta Gti said:


> lol, nah..just got back from 2 mri's and a cat scan...so stiff and sore.


What the hell did you do?


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## Fast929 (Nov 13, 2004)

Vegeta Gti said:


> stop braggin bastard:wave::heart:


I'll send ya a pressure sender too ;-)


I agree, Arnold's been doing this a long time. People would best be served following his advice.....


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