# Castrol Syntec UOA



## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

Finally in, here is my UOA for the Castrol Syntec 5w40 that i've been running in the GTI. The car has 14k total miles, and this oil was in the motor for a little over 3k miles. No makeup oil was added. There is one autocross on this oil, plus I drive the car pretty damn hard day to day. I would say 60% highway, and 40% city traffic. Really happy about the metal levels, except for magnsium. No idea what is causing that. But the viscosity and flashpoint are horrible for only 3k miles. What do you guys think:











_Modified by rhouse181 at 6:58 PM 3-30-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Castrol Syntec UOA (rhouse181)*

Magnesium is used as an additive in U.S. syntec so don't worry it is not from your engine. Silicon is great. You are right that flashpoint and viscosity are low. Fuel content high. No surprises there. 
I guess I never paid attention to other U.S. syntec UOAs but that calcium (detergent) looks low. Is that common to U.S. syntec?
Iron was 8.1 ppm per 1000 miles which is bang on the average for 13,000 miles on car. 








TBN is a bit higher than "average" for that mileage (graph is a little hard to read, look at short bars on left in 3k mile range. Also there is limited data in this data set so really the only comparison is to GC (used on one car only) for 3k intervals and the one redline UOA at 4k OCI.








In terms of how the oil held up, it looks like you changed it at the right time as viscosity and flashpoint are getting low from fuel dilution. There doesn't appear to be a magic oil that deals well with fuel dilution in this motor but check the database to compare. I think there are oils which will do better for you than the U.S. syntec.


_Modified by saaber2 at 7:32 PM 3-30-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: Castrol Syntec UOA (rhouse181)*

Here are some comparables with around the same mileage on car to look at. It does look like syntec has lower Calcium than other oils.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

thanks for the data saaber, i'm def going to switch over to some redline for the next fill... fuel dilution is ridiculous considering the low mileage on the oil


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_thanks for the data saaber, i'm def going to switch over to some redline for the next fill... fuel dilution is ridiculous considering the low mileage on the oil

You're right, that fuel dilution is ridiculous. By far the highest I've seen on any 2.0T, especially with a sample that has only 3k miles on it. Below is my Castrol 5w40 UOA for another reference, and I wasn't happy about what I saw either. But yours is well beyond 'normal'. 2 thoughts...either you pulled that sample cold so the extra fuel dumped at start up hadn't burned off yet, or there is actually something wrong with your motor.
BTW, its obviously your choice but be aware no Redline oil is VW 502.00 approved. If there is actually something up, I sure wouldn't want that in my motor for a warranty visit where maintenance might be questioned. 










_Modified by bcze1 at 9:32 AM 3-31-2009_


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

no, the sample burned the crap out of my hand when coming out of the oil pan....
i drive the piss out of my car and that sample had at least one autocross on it. what are some reasons for higher fuel dilution?
bcze1, there are huge differences in moly and boron between our UOAs. any insite?



_Modified by rhouse181 at 9:22 AM 3-31-2009_


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

the more i look at the numbers, I'm interested in how makeup oil affects the calculation of fuel dilution. i don't add any makeup oil, while pretty much every other sample has a fair amount of makeup oil added between changes.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (rhouse181)*

There doesn't appear to be a relationship based on this data. Keep in mind though that these are "single-pass" UOAs on multiple units. 
It is great you are looking for causes. Your question made me wonder if a malfunctioning pcv system would be a possible cause (i.e. it wouldn't effectively evacuate volatile components such as water and oil out of the crankcase) but no water was found in your sample so that really doesn't explain it.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (saaber2)*

Just throwing a dart out there but did you do city driving or highway driving immediately before changing the oil? And how many minutes did you drive it before changing oil? How much idling immediately before changing the oil?


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

highway driving for about 10 minutes... let the car sit for 15 minutes or so, drove it on some ramps, and then changed the oil. it certainly got the oil up to temp. and had adequate amount of time to flash off any startup fuel.
another possible correlation was the percentage of highway driving... my car isn't even warm before i'm up on the freeway and on my way to work. its seems like people with more highway miles have higher % fuel numbers?
i have some statistical software at work that i can make some better charts with and try to seach for some better correlations. let me know if you want someone else to fool around with it. i'll send you a message with my email address. 


_Modified by rhouse181 at 10:33 AM 4-1-2009_


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## bcze1 (Feb 6, 2007)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
another possible correlation was the percentage of highway driving... my car isn't even warm before i'm up on the freeway and on my way to work. its seems like people with more highway miles have higher % fuel numbers?


Its actually the opposite. Lots of short trips where the motor has little time at operating temp allows fuel & condensation to build up.
Do you let it idle A LOT?
Your fuel dilution is far higher than any of the others, regardless of oil fill. Who knows, maybe its an anomaly? If you see it anywhere near this high again I'd start investigating for things like a bad injector, improper timing, or even worn rings.
What performance mods do you have?
BTW, I believe the higher moly & boron seen on my UAO are likely remnants of the M1 from the prior change. 


_Modified by bcze1 at 11:45 AM 4-1-2009_


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (rhouse181)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rhouse181* »_
i have some statistical software at work that i can make some better charts with and try to seach for some better correlations. let me know if you want someone else to fool around with it. i'll send you a message with my email address. _Modified by rhouse181 at 10:33 AM 4-1-2009_

sent


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

*Re: (bcze1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_
Its actually the opposite. Lots of short trips where the motor has little time at operating temp allows fuel & condensation to build up.



I know that idling and short trips are supposed to present with higher levels of fuel, but in saaber's database of UOAs, it looks like the people with higher highway miles have more fuel dilution. 

_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_
I'd start investigating for things like a bad injector, improper timing, or even worn rings.


If the rings were worn, i would have a serious loss of oil control and would be experiencing a lot of consumption. as of now, i don't add any oil between changes. and with wear numbers in the UOA, i'm not too concerned with the rings. injector though, quite possibly...

_Quote, originally posted by *bcze1* »_
What performance mods do you have?


I'm completely stock in the engine mod department.


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)

Thanks to saaber's list:


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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)




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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)




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## rhouse181 (Apr 13, 2008)




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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (rhouse181)*

Cool graphs! Haven't had a chance to look at them yet but for copper, renewable lubricants biosyn uses copper as an additive. As I remember the cu ppm was around 128. The virgin oil is loaded with copper. So I would suggest throwing that one out if you haven't already. This is the only oil that I know of that uses Cu as an additive.


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## saaber2 (Jul 15, 2008)

*Re: (saaber2)*

Does the copper graph account for OCI? Copper ppm is cummulative with mileage on the oil so it seems you would need to do CU/1000 miles or something on the y axis.
As is, it looks like lots of copper wear during break in and then a more linear, lower rate after that.
Btw, it would be neat to find the "best guess" mileage point when the 2.0 FSI is "broken in". Fe and Cu could give an indication of that. I'm guessing it is somewhere around 10,000 miles? haven't looked at data that close on that topic yet. Of course the 10k would match up with vw's previously recommended OCIs. For my 08, the manual says change at 5k, then at 10k, then at 20k, 30k, etc. likely indicating that they think it is broken in by around 10k.


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