# Beetle sales



## KNEWBUG (Sep 13, 2011)

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/03/23/...arning-more-man-love/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook






KNEWBUG


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## ltlebug (Jan 12, 2012)

So, in January, 1,401 Beetles were sold; in February, 1,303. That is extremely low! No wonder not many beetles are on the road. So, those who have them, enjoy them and show them off! :thumbup:


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## KNEWBUG (Sep 13, 2011)

Right ON!!!!
Tomorrow will be six months.......




:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


KNEWBUG


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

ltlebug said:


> So, in January, 1,401 Beetles were sold; in February, 1,303. That is extremely low! No wonder not many beetles are on the road. So, those who have them, enjoy them and show them off! :thumbup:


Wait till the better optioned Beetles get in the lots: sales will pick up dramatically!


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## ridgemanron (Sep 27, 2011)

Out of the 2500 plus Beetles listed on 'Cars.com' only 8 are Turbo Beetles with a sunroof !
Since people ordering the heavily optioned versions of the car are wanting of the sunroof
it's easy to see why sales have been so low. It still seems at this time that the sunroof 
continues to be problematic, but VW doesn't expound on this development in any way, shape
or form and the buying public keeps holding out for a car with the 'roof'........which doesn't
look to be coming in quantity now, nor is it confirmed to be coming in the near future. Should
the 'heavy optioned' crowd keep waiting for the sunroof? Your guess is as good as mine.


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

Well, right now I'm still in a bit of an exclusive club in Utah. In fact, I've yet to see another Beetle on the road and mine gets plenty of attention. So... even though I'm rooting for sales to rise and the model to succeed, I'll bask in the glow until then.

Bill


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

I've said this many times before and will say it again....If the 2.5s or whatever base engined models that may replace them don't sell, the latest Beetle will either become a collosal flop or VW will have to accept the fact that they will never sell like the 98-10 models, which incidentally dropped every single year it was in production as it is except for 2010. About 1.2 million 98-10 Beetles were sold worldwide during their run. At the rate the 2012+ is going, VW would be lucky to sell 400-500K over the same timespan. More males may be attracted to the Bug now, but this isn't helping the future of the water-cooled Beetle community at all. All the 2012+ Beetle will succeed in doing is cannabalizing GTI sales.


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## VR6Now (Dec 31, 2000)

Pricing and the availability of options is the problem and not enough is being done to fix either. 20k for the base is too rich for what it offers. 30k is kinda expensive too when compared to the Jetta GLI. The GTI Autobahn makes the Turbo Beetle look reasonable but its made Germany with significantly more expensive labor and has a higher shipping cost. 

I think the sales are not a surprise. VW's N. American growth strategy may be working with the Jetta and Passat but so far its not working with the Beetle. I think they were aiming for the Beetle to be thier Mini; small, high content, and high price. Problem is the high content is missing as of this time.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

I really had hoped that the 2012 Beetle would be enjoying double the sales of the 98-10s. They may pick up a bit when the production issues are resolved, but it will be nowhere near what the last-gen New Beetles managed in their early years. Thirty thousand dollars is simply way too much to pay for a Beetle of any kind when that kind of money would buy two late-model used NBs from 2009-2010 vintage, a 2012 nicely-equipped Passat, or a 2012 nicely-equipped Jetta with $5000 left over to take a week cruise to the Carribean. And yet, this is what the males are going for. It's totally baffling. The iconic Beetle has literally been transformed from a lovable People's car to an overpriced hot rod that only interests a small segment of VW buyers. It would be interesting to see how many NB owners are trading their cars in for Mini Coopers or Fiat 500s.


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

fiftysomething said:


> Thirty thousand dollars is simply way too much to pay for a Beetle of any kind...


I agree. I've opined elsewhere about the price points of the Beetle. My analysis showed there's no practical reason VW can't sell a base Beetle for about $16,500. So, one can only assume the current pricing (due to content levels) is a conscious effort by VW to market to a particular (up-scale) demographic.

Bill


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## moodylucy (Aug 21, 2011)

ridgemanron said:


> Out of the 2500 plus Beetles listed on 'Cars.com' only 8 are Turbo Beetles with a sunroof !
> Since people ordering the heavily optioned versions of the car are wanting of the sunroof
> it's easy to see why sales have been so low. It still seems at this time that the sunroof
> continues to be problematic, but VW doesn't expound on this development in any way, shape
> ...


VW should have done some polling to see WHAT the PEOPLE wanted on the Beetles. 
I agree with Ron that when the options hit the dealers, sales will improve. I think VW needs to start showing the commercials, or people won't know the dealers actually have them on the lots.


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

I am not at all surprised by these numbers, but not for the reasons others are saying. 

*Sales are low because VW cannot build the trim levels people want to buy fast enough.*

Look at most of the threads here. The people that want to buy CAN'T because the options they want aren't available. We were just saying in another thread that dealers just seemed to get a ton of Beetles. Dealers can't sell cars they don't have. If they've finally cleared up the production issues and cars are filling lots then they will finally start selling them in any decent volume.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

Yes, but the problem is that nobody is buying the 2.5s, which should account for about 75% of all Beetle sales, or at the least, 50%. Because of this, I sadly predict the water-cooled Beetle community will shrink to practically nothing. The people over on the Org are acting as though it's still 2001, and I doubt if that site will even exist by 2015. I wanted so much to be a part of the modern-day Beetle people, but with what's happening, this will be an extinct group in a few short years.


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## 2VWatatime (Aug 4, 2006)

fiftysomething said:


> I've said this many times before and will say it again....If the 2.5s or whatever base engined models that may replace them don't sell, the latest Beetle will either become a collosal flop or VW will have to accept the fact that they will never sell like the 98-10 models.


You seem either unwilling or unable to comprehend that VW does not intend for this to be, as was the previous, a modest volume seller in one market, but rather is looking for modest volumes across a variety of markets - a move that insulates the maker from fluctuations in one market. But hey, keep banging the "newest is a flop" drum if it makes you feel better.


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

fiftysomething said:


> Yes, but the problem is that nobody is buying the 2.5s, which should account for about 75% of all Beetle sales, or at the least, 50%. Because of this, I sadly predict the water-cooled Beetle community will shrink to practically nothing. The people over on the Org are acting as though it's still 2001, and I doubt if that site will even exist by 2015. I wanted so much to be a part of the modern-day Beetle people, but with what's happening, this will be an extinct group in a few short years.


But dealers haven't been getting many 2.5's besides base models either, at least not many higher-trim ones. Think about it: ONLY the BASE 2.5 and the BASE Turbo don't have sunroofs. Each engine consists of three trim levels (essentially). If dealers can only get TWO of SIX models (and almost all are auto/DSG), then the sales will be low. 

Second, VW has said this Beetle will not sell in the volume they did in 1998 through 2001(ish). There was a decades-long pent up demand. This does not exist anymore. Today, if someone wants a Beetle, they can get one of these new ones, or choose from a huge selection of used ones. 

To be honest, I'm not sure why you are so concerned about volume. I, for one, don't want the Beetle to be a major seller. I don't want to see my car coming and going. This is a unique car for unique people. The car sells in enough volume to keep the model afloat for many years. There are still many people interested in the car, but VW just can't seem to get them onto lots. At least not the ones that people really want. 

The car has been on sale for what, 6 months at the most? Why write it off already? Very half-glass-full, if you ask me.



2VWatatime said:


> You seem either unwilling or unable to comprehend that VW does not intend for this to be, as was the previous, a modest volume seller in one market, but rather is looking for modest volumes across a variety of markets - a move that insulates the maker from fluctuations in one market. But hey, keep banging the "newest is a flop" drum if it makes you feel better.


Add to that the fact that only the least desirable trim levels are on dealer lots. Dealers can only sell what they are given. If buyers want a specific trim level, they either have to wait or look for another car from another manufacturer.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

2VWatatime said:


> You seem either unwilling or unable to comprehend that VW does not intend for this to be, as was the previous, a modest volume seller in one market, but rather is looking for modest volumes across a variety of markets - a move that insulates the maker from fluctuations in one market. But hey, keep banging the "newest is a flop" drum if it makes you feel better.


The New Beetle of 98-10 was made specifically with the US market in mind. Some sold in other markets, but not nearly to the extent of the US. While I can accept your theory above to a point, the fact remains that if the "newest" Beetle doesn't even sell here as well as the previous generation AFTER the fanfare wore off (2003-2008 or so, then they really tanked, admittedly as cars getting long in the tooth do), how can VW expect to average 100,000 unit sales each year for the next 12 years as they did before? From 98-10, 1.2 million NBs went out the door worldwide. The US had about 50% of those. The US is currently only on a pace to sell about 12-15K units a year. Thus, if this represents half of worldwide Beetle sales, this car has about as much chance surviving into the 2020s as the Eos, regardless of how thin it's spread. VW would have to introduce this car to many other previously uninitiated countries to offset the lower sales here. But maybe that's the plan, who knows? If so, this contradicts what the suits at VW said when announcing that there would be a 2012 Beetle, which was something like this:
"We understand the significance and importance of the Beetle in the American market."


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

fiftysomething said:


> *Snip to save space* From 98-10, 1.2 million NBs went out the door worldwide. The US had about 50% of those. The US is currently only on a pace to sell about *12-15K units a year*. Thus, if this represents half of worldwide Beetle sales, this car has about as much chance surviving into the 2020s as the Eos, regardless of how thin it's spread. VW would have to introduce this car to many other previously uninitiated countries to offset the lower sales here. But maybe that's the plan, who knows?


But once again, you're using sales numbers that _can't and don't accurately reflect_ what sales *will be* once the production issues are worked out. 



fiftysomething said:


> If so, this contradicts what the suits at VW said when announcing that there would be a 2012 Beetle, which was something like this:
> "We understand the significance and importance of the Beetle in the American market."


And as I've stated, the bulk of people waiting for cars are the ones that VW can't seem to get made. These are the ones that VW knows the U.S. buyer wants. They want sunroofs and Fender stereos. And once these more desirable cars are filling lots, the sales will increase.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

The question, then, is why does everyone this time around insist on sunroofs and Fender stereos? The Base model is no slouch or stripped-down car by a long shot. You've got a 2.5 engine with 170 horses that runs on 87 fuel, which is cheaper than the premium required for turbos, cruise, A/C, ABS, traction control, a regular sound system that should be adequate unless you're 21 years old, really cool retro wheels, and a price advantage of thousands of dollars over the loaded models. 

The truth? I would love for you to be right, and for that reason, and despite my glass half-empty disposition, I continue to wait and see what happens. I would love to look back in a year and laugh at my pessimism, but seeing sales drop (Dec-1500, Jan, 1400, Feb 1300) is not helping. If more people were buying these "least desirable" models, this wouldn't be happening. I realize you can't force someone to settle for a car that doesn't have a feature he/she wants, but I'm still baffled that so few are buying Base models.


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## vdub10golf (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm willing to bet that sales will pick up way more by the end of the year as production picks up more. For the longest time we only had 1-2 Beetles in, if that, then we started to get more and more, and now we have about 15 on the lot, and they sell quick


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

fiftysomething said:


> The question, then, is why does everyone this time around insist on sunroofs and Fender stereos? The Base model is no slouch or stripped-down car by a long shot.


On that fifty, we can COMPLETELY agree. I recently posted a short review and was floored how 'complete' a base Turbo was. In my mind you visualize a base model and think 'cheap' or that you are missing out on something, or the car is 'incomplete.' Far from it! Heated seats, a decent sound system, bluetooth, power everything, by all standards, it's almost loaded. I'd be quite satisifed with a base Turbo, but I'm betting many, maybe even most, buyers think 'base' equals cheap. We're in an era where the *average* purchase price of a new car is $28K and approaching $30K. While many manufacturers lure buyers in with $18K advertised prices, the buyer actually wants more stuff and is willing to pay for it. Heck, my GLI has a sunroof and I use it as much as possible. Now that the weather is getting nice I have it open almost daily. While I'm convinced a base Turbo would be fine, I'm quickly falling into the "for just a little more a month i can get what I really want (sunroof)" crowd.


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## moodylucy (Aug 21, 2011)

Since I started hearing about this incarnation of the Beetle, I knew I had to have one with a sunroof. I haven't been without a sunroof for 26 years- heck, I live in Southern California.
When I heard about the Fender system, I knew I had to have that too- I love rock & roll!
The base model is fine, but I'm not at the "entry" level of car buying, and I've waited for over 6 months for this one- never been this patient in my life!


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## mediumbluemetalic (Jul 7, 2003)

I feel that sales are sluggish for 2 reasons: 1) The price is very high for a 4-seater, and 2) the overall design looks too much like a New Beetle. Non-enthusiasts have a very hard time distinguishing the new car from the old car.

Volkswagen designers should have done more to the hood and the hatch... the original Beetles were known by the stamped creases in their front and rear hoods... this could have easily been emulated in some way on the '12 model and would have vastly differentiated the '12 Beetle from the NB. As the car stands, the front-end styling is virtually indistinguishable from the old car. Imagine a crease that runs around the edges of the hood and up the middle. Add to that a thick, 1.5-2 inch slab of chrome or brushed chrome running up the hood with a handle at the bottom paying respect to the air-cooled days; this would have looked really nice and made the new model look like more than a NB reboot.

The rear has new taillights, true, but this could be confused as a facelift of the old car since the plain-Jane hatch is still contour-less. And honestly, the taillights are kind of boring. Most manufacturers have some model these days with protruding headlights and/or taillights. Don't tell me that VW couldn't have made some bad-ass protruding tombstone-style modernized taillights that would have been more eye-catching. Add a bump in the hatch to house a high-mount license plate and bam--you'd have something that didn't look like NB restyle #2.

The side profile--including the wheels and a-pillar--is the only exterior view where major differences were made. Granted, these were major changes, but still... what we ended up with was a refined NB rather than a re-imagined air-cooled Beetle.

The '12 Beetle didn't have to reinvent the wheel, and for a retro car, it shouldn't. But it could have used to look a little more unique by adding a few more visual cues from the air-cooled days. Don't get me wrong... I'm not a '12 Beetle hater. I actually really like what VW did with the car, especially from the side and on in the inside, and I've more than once considered a '13 Beetle over a '13 Jetta. BUT I think that lagging sales, the point of this post, can be blamed on a conservative restyle. Honda is having the same troubles with their new Civic.


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

Have you seen any out driving around? I think the new model looks substantially different than the old model, but it's not as noticeable in photos. In person (and especially in motion) the flat roofline, high sills, large wheels and longer hood really make this new model stand out from the NB.


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## bigsexyTDI (Apr 2, 2006)

Should've had TDI from day one.

/end thread


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## silverspeedbuggy (Aug 8, 2001)

You bring up an excellent point: sales may pick up purely from the addition of the third engine option.


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## UTE (Nov 12, 2011)

Sigh... there's been a noticeable lack of Beetle TDI news since the original press release stating it'd be this Summer. Sometimes it's what VW does not say that informs the most. I don't think it's going to happen as it's not possible to build or order a Beetle TDI yet.

Bill


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## VR6Now (Dec 31, 2000)

fiftysomething said:


> The question, then, is why does everyone this time around insist on sunroofs and Fender stereos? The Base model is no slouch or stripped-down car by a long shot. You've got a 2.5 engine with 170 horses that runs on 87 fuel, which is cheaper than the premium required for turbos, cruise, A/C, ABS, traction control, a regular sound system that should be adequate unless you're 21 years old, really cool retro wheels, and a price advantage of thousands of dollars over the loaded models.


Because if I were looking for something that basic I would just buy a Ford Focus, Honda Civic, or Jetta and pocket the difference. A/C, ABS, and traction control, and a radio is pretty much ubiquitous in the compact segment these days so pretty much what you mention is a stripped down version in the compact market in 2012 minus the 170 HP. Just as you can make an argument that there's no need to buy a optioned Beetle over a base model, I can make an equally reasoned argument to buying a 'overpriced' Beetle over a Jetta. Its the same logic you use to justify your preferences. People want what they want.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

I don't need a sunroof. In Wisconsin, it's gray and overcast about 90% of the time, anyway, even in the summer. IMO, a car as small as the Beetle also doesn't need a turbo. 170 horses is plenty. When I was young and cranking Led Zeppelin and Black Sabbath on my 8-track, a Fender stereo may have sounded appealing, but at 52, I no longer need it. Instead of some expensive navigation system that costs thousands of dollars telling me how to get to a specific destination, I'll opt for a $7.00 Rand McNalley Road Atlas at Wal Mart. Manual transmissions are fun, but as the aches and pains of aging manifest themselves, automatics are nice, too.

Yes, you could buy a Focus or Civic or whatever, but VW is the only brand that matters!  But you're right. People want what they want. If I was in the market today for a brand new VW, I'd probably go for either a 2.0 Jetta or a Base Passat. The upcoming UP will be interesting if it actually reaches the States.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

I also anxiously await the March sales figures. Since the last business day for dealers fell on a Saturday, we won't see them on Media.vw.com until tomorrow or the next day. Even if just 1 more Beetle sold last month than in February, I'll feel better because since December, the trend has been a downward direction. 

My posts regarding this topic have admittedly been negative, and I sincerely apologize if I 've brought others down with me. I really have been considering what others have tried to tell me, even the rude jerks on the Car Lounge that accused me of HOPING the 2012 fails because I somehow thought that this would increase the value of my 2000 NB which I NEVER stated in any way, shape, or form. 

What I said instead was that the 98-10 NBs could become collector cars someday just like the air-cooled Beetles, but only IF the Beetle nameplate continues. If it's killed again, then the NBs will be about as collectable as a Dodge Neon. 

I now acknowledge that these pathetic 1500,1400, 1300 respective Dec, Jan, and Feb numbers for the 2012 Beetle could rise dramatically when everyone finally gets their sunroofs in a timely manner. And if orders don't count as sales, I've needlessly panicked, anyway. I guess the bottom line is that even if VW has intentionally set Beetle sales lower in favor of profit over volume, i.e., loaded sunroof turbos over Base Beetles, it won't matter if they dont sell as many as the 98-10s because they'll still be making money on them, and as long as they do that, the Beetle won't go anywhere. 

I don't know a whole lot about the ins and outs of the auto industry, but I assumed that any new model should outsell the previous one when it first comes out. 
I assure you that nothing would make me happier than keeping my 2000 NB and continuing to display it at shows and eventually getting a 2012 + as well. For one thing, KBB Trade-In for my NB is only $3500, and even if I contribute another $2000 to get a $5000 Passat, that will get me one about the same age, but with 120-150K miles. Since my NB only has 84K, has had all maintenance updated and is in excellent mechanical condition, this wouldn't make much sense. :sly:


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## Audiophil (Sep 30, 2007)

Lack of inventory and the Beetle being a niche product is why it is a slow seller. When the Beetle MK2 appeared that was the only brand new Beetle you could legally buy in the US. Supply was very very short of demand. Now we have plenty of water cooled Beetles to choose from. The Beetle, like the R32, TT, 911, EOS, etc... is a niche market car. The car appeals to VW/Audi/car enthusiasts and people looking for something different - this is a tiny part of the car purchasing public in NA. The vast majority of people in NA buy crap (Camary/F-150/Kia, etc). A niche market car can never hope to have sales figures that compete with those offerings. 

I have tried to get the wife interested in VW/Audi but after the window regulator failed and the the glass fell into the passenger side door of my vert, she says she will stick with more reliable (albeit boring to drive) Toyotas. If I wasn't a car enthusiast I would probably buy the same thing.


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## ltlebug (Jan 12, 2012)

Surprising, sales in April were not as high as I had expected, but they are going in the right direction. April sales were 2,065. 
http://www.media.vw.com/pressrelease/1047/1/volkswagen-reports-31.5-percent-increase-april-u.s-sales


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

My outlook is far more optimistic than it was earlier this year. In March, 1969 Beetles were sold, and then in April, 2065 sold, so these numbers are going in the right direction. Still a bit on the slow side, but a hell of lot better than 1300 or 1400! Slowly but surely, I'm seeing more on the road, too. As long as Volkswagen meets or exceeds their goals with this car, I guess that's what matters the most. The US Bug, in whatever incarnation, must NEVER be killed again as it was in 1979! I was nearly 20 years old then, and very upset. That was a long time ago, but I think I even shed tears.........


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

I love statistics...

B12 YTD for Year-over-Year change is 3303%, and for the month of April is 206,400%.


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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

silverspeedbuggy said:


> We're in an era where the *average* purchase price of a new car is $28K and approaching $30K. While many manufacturers lure buyers in with $18K advertised prices, the buyer actually wants more stuff and is willing to pay for it. Heck, my GLI has a sunroof and I use it as much as possible.


The average purchase price of a new car in the US has already exceeded $30K, it's at $30,748 and climbing. Oddly enough, the beetle i ordered, is about there . It is strange fully loaded cars are very difficult to come by, and dealers are being stuck with stranger customers like me who want just what we want and not a car slightly off (no sun roof) for thousands less.


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

VWNDAHS said:


> The average purchase price of a new car in the US has already exceeded $30K, it's at $30,748 and climbing.



This is why I opt for used cars. I figure that once those fully or nearly-fully loaded Beetles are about 3-4 years old, one could be had for around 18-20K, while the Base 21K models would drop to about 14K or so. But then again, somebody has to buy them new so they can become used....


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## Cadenza_7o (Jan 23, 2001)

fiftysomething said:


> This is why I opt for used cars. I figure that once those fully or nearly-fully loaded Beetles are about 3-4 years old, one could be had for around 18-20K, while the Base 21K models would drop to about 14K or so. But then again, somebody has to buy them new so they can become used....


I've never bought a new car in my life and probably never will. Talk about a quick depreciating asset!!! 

I've paid a total of $29k for 3 cars... and not a penny in interest to the banks. 

'81 Audi 4000 (college days)... $1.7k... gone
'87 Porsche 944S (minty)... $7.3k... 2DR sports coupe was out of fashion when I got it... sold
'06 Mini Cooper S Cabrio (minty)... $20k... current car, bought on a whim

So I'm ready to pay $16-$17k for a loaded Turbo B12 in 2015.


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## VWNDAHS (Jun 20, 2002)

Cadenza_7o said:


> '81 Audi 4000 (college days)... $1.7k... gone


OT, BEST CAR EVER! All my earliest childhood memories involve a red 4000s


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## Sixtysomething (Aug 7, 2003)

Sales numbers for the 2012+ Beetles are getting MUCH better. In May, 3002 were sold in the US. For those interested, as of May 31, there are 15, 396 Beetles that have been sold in the States since its release back in October. 

From 1998-2010, 1, 163, 890 New Beetles were produced worldwide, but I don't know the world wide numbers for 21st Century Beetles so far.


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