# Wheel Size for Auto X ???



## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

I'm having a hard time deciding between a 17" wheel and a 18" wheel for Auto X and Track days. I'm looking at getting a lightweight set of wheels and can't make up my mind which one to go with.
My options.
17" OZ Superleggeras 8" width weighs 15.9 #'s
17" OZ Ultraleggeras 8" width weighs 17.0 #'s
18" OZ Superleggeras 8" width weighs 17.6 #'s
18" OZ Ultraleggeras 8" width weighs 18.6 #'s
My main concern is weight as you can see, but I'm also worried about the risk of bending a rim on the way to or from an event, which has me leaning towards the 17" option. 
I have a set of 18" Aristos that I plan on using as Daily use rims, so in that respect a set of 18" Lightweight wheels would be nice, so that way in a pinch I could swap a tire if I needed to.
Please help me make up my mind


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

You should also consider the ability to replace the rim should something happen. Being that Superleggeras are harder to come by, I would lean away from them in either size.
Between 17 and 18 I would make my decision based upon what tire size I plan to run. Not too many grippy tires are available in wider sizes for the 18s so I am biased to the 17. 235/40 fits very well on the 17x8 and will shorten the gearing very generously. A 245/40 will provide excellent grip and still shorten the gearing a tad while still fitting very well on the 17x8.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_You should also consider the ability to replace the rim should something happen. Being that Superleggeras are harder to come by, I would lean away from them in either size.
Between 17 and 18 I would make my decision based upon what tire size I plan to run. Not too many grippy tires are available in wider sizes for the 18s so I am biased to the 17. 235/40 fits very well on the 17x8 and will shorten the gearing very generously. A 245/40 will provide excellent grip and still shorten the gearing a tad while still fitting very well on the 17x8.

So you would suggest I go with the 17" Ultraleggeras if I was going to be getting a set of Auto X. There is also a big difference in price on Tirerack between the 17" ($263) and 18" ($348) Ultraleggeras. If I did have to get a replacement rim it would also be cheaper to replace a 17" Ultraleggera than an 18" Ultraleggera. 
The thing is that I have the opportunity to purchase a set of 17" Superleggeras for $1,000 or so with tires. The set I'm talking about and they are Mint from what I was told. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4570485 
I hear what you are saying about making sure I can get a replacement should I bent one or crack one god forbid. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
As for tires size that I would want to run would be 225/40/18 or 225/45/17. I believe anything over a 225 tire width bumps you a class in SCCA???


_Modified by 3L3M3NT at 11:32 PM 11-26-2009_


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

I am for the 17s soley for the reason of grippy street tire choice. If going 18 I would only do so if you are going to run a 285/30 R comp, but that requires a tremendous amount of fender and suspension work to clear properly, as well as a wider set of wheels.
If you are planning on tracking, one bad off, or one bad approach to a rumble strip can crack a rim, so I would not be purchasing a older wheel design that is no longer readily available for purchase.
Are you purchasing wheels for your MKIV VW? If so your bolt pattern is 5x100. The wheels on that Audi are 5x112.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_I am for the 17s soley for the reason of grippy street tire choice. If going 18 I would only do so if you are going to run a 285/30 R comp, but that requires a tremendous amount of fender and suspension work to clear properly, as well as a wider set of wheels.
If you are planning on tracking, one bad off, or one bad approach to a rumble strip can crack a rim, so I would not be purchasing a older wheel design that is no longer readily available for purchase.
Are you purchasing wheels for your MKIV VW? If so your bolt pattern is 5x100. The wheels on that Audi are 5x112.

Yeah I'm purchasing them for my 04 Jetta TDI so I would need a 5x100 bolt pattern.
Sounds like 17's are they way to go for Auto X and Track days. 
As for Tires I've heard really good things about the Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec. Would this be a good tire for weekend warrior, who has to have some compromise, since I'll be driving the car to the events with the "Track wheels" already on and I don't really want to replace tires on a regular basis. If I had to replace them once a year that would be fine by me.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

The Star Specs are great tires. With smooth driving and good car setup you should be able to get a year out of the tires. How much mileage do you do daily, will you have a codriver for autox events? The Bridgestones might last a bit longer, but that's really quite debatable.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_The Star Specs are great tires. With smooth driving and good car setup you should be able to get a year out of the tires. How much mileage do you do daily, will you have a codriver for autox events? The Bridgestones might last a bit longer, but that's really quite debatable.

I don't think a Co-driver is allowed in some of the events I do. But if possible yes a buddy of mine really wants to be my co-driver if he's allowed to ride with me.
I would use this setup as strictly for Auto X, since I put on 20-25K a year, so I would run my Aristos for daily driving and then switch to my Auto X setup for each event and just drive those to the event.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

If only used for autox events and getting to and from the events you should definitely be able to get a season out of the tires, possibly even two seasons.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_If only used for autox events and getting to and from the events you should definitely be able to get a season out of the tires, possibly even two seasons.

Well that's good to know. It would be nice go get 2 seasons out of a set of tires, because the tires that are on my Aristos maybe have another 2 months of me driving on them in the spring and they are shot.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

Well I think I've settled on getting a set of 17" Black Ultraleggeras and I think I'm going to go with a stock size tire, since I believe anything over 225 bumps you a class according to the rule book for some of the Auto X events in the WI area.
My next concern is what about running wheel spacers? I currently running 8mm front spacer and 15mm rear spacers with my Aristos. Just wondering if these would work on the Ultraleggeras?
I'd be ordering everything from Tirerack.com
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels...Brand


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

for Auto-X I would recomend the smallest and lightest wheels that will fit on the car, with a little consideration for tire availability.
spacers, in the back you want to use as small a spacer as possible (or none), when you widen the rear track it makes the car understeer more.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (Rocco R16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocco R16V* »_for Auto-X I would recomend the smallest and lightest wheels that will fit on the car, with a little consideration for tire availability.
spacers, in the back you want to use as small a spacer as possible (or none), when you widen the rear track it makes the car understeer more. 

I'm running a Big brake setup, so 17" is the smallest that I'm positive that I can run. I found a set of Superleggeras, so they are super light and should really help out. I don't think I'll be running any spacers when I have them on.
Thanks for all the help guys. I think I got my setup all figured out and I think I'm going to sell my Aristos in favor of a set of Ultraleggeras for daily driving.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

What autocross class you are looking to compete in is important because that kind of dictates what size wheels and tires you can run. Stock class means stock size rims with the widest r-comps you can fit, street tire classes have set maximum widths, and if you go street prepared or modified you're going to want to go as wide as possible.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (4ceFed4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_What autocross class you are looking to compete in is important because that kind of dictates what size wheels and tires you can run. Stock class means stock size rims with the widest r-comps you can fit, street tire classes have set maximum widths, and if you go street prepared or modified you're going to want to go as wide as possible.

To be honest I really don't know. Whatever size 225/45/17 goes under.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

Looking at the modification list in your signature, you're going to be placed in at least a street prepared class (SM if you upgraded the turbo, sorry I'm not familiar with TDI terminology). With that kind of torque, even with limited slip you're going to want at least 245 r-comps in the front to be competitive.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (4ceFed4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_Looking at the modification list in your signature, you're going to be placed in at least a street prepared class (SM if you upgraded the turbo, sorry I'm not familiar with TDI terminology). With that kind of torque, even with limited slip you're going to want at least 245 r-comps in the front to be competitive.

Yeah that would be an upgraded turbo in my sig







Hmm now I'm not entirely sure what tire to run. I was strongly considering the Dunlop Direzza Star Spec, since I need a good tire in dry and wet and a tire that is going to somewhat last, since Ill be driving to the track on those tires.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

If you're going to be driving to the track on the set up you're racing with, then yea I'd say the star specs are your best bet. Just realize that pretty much everyone else in you're class that you're racing against is going to have DOT slicks on their cars.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (4ceFed4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_If you're going to be driving to the track on the set up you're racing with, then yea I'd say the star specs are your best bet. Just realize that pretty much everyone else in you're class that you're racing against is going to have DOT slicks on their cars.

Yeah I'm pretty much doing the Auto X for fun, so I don't really car what class I'm in to tell you the truth. I just want to be able to legally push my car and not get in trouble for it. Race a controlled enivronment that is safe and like I said most importantly legal. I really don't need any more tickets for speeding and I don't have one for reckless driving and I don't want one either. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3L3M3NT* »_
I don't have one for reckless driving and I don't want one either. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

That makes one of us, LOL. 
You'll be happy with the star specs. They have a ton more grip than whatever you're used to, and they're great to learn on since they don't mask all your mistakes as much as a r-comp would.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (4ceFed4)*


_Quote, originally posted by *4ceFed4* »_
That makes one of us, LOL. 
You'll be happy with the star specs. They have a ton more grip than whatever you're used to, and they're great to learn on since they don't mask all your mistakes as much as a r-comp would.

Opps on the reckless driving.








I think I'll be happy with how the Star spec perform from I've heard/read. I might actually have a line on a set that only has 500 miles on them.


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## 4ceFed4 (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3L3M3NT* »_
I might actually have a line on a set that only has 500 miles on them.









Just sold my 225/50 r16 star specs with about that mileage on them. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Rocco R16V (Oct 7, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *3L3M3NT* »_
Yeah I'm pretty much doing the Auto X for fun, so I don't really car what class I'm in to tell you the truth. I just want to be able to legally push my car and not get in trouble for it. Race a controlled enivronment that is safe and like I said most importantly legal. I really don't need any more tickets for speeding and I don't have one for reckless driving and I don't want one either. http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 

That's so great to hear! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif auto-X should be about learning the limits of your car in a legal enviroment and not so much about competition. IMO. with a great attitude like that you will have fun and become a better driver.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (Rocco R16V)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Rocco R16V* »_
That's so great to hear! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif auto-X should be about learning the limits of your car in a legal enviroment and not so much about competition. IMO. with a great attitude like that you will have fun and become a better driver.
















For me I could really care less that there are classes. I just want to see how my times compare for one run to the next. Like you said improve as a driver.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

I got my set of Auto X and Track day rims from JettaGetUpandGo this weekend. I picked up a set of Superleggeras that he had and are in good shape, but I'm going to powdercoat them this winter before tires go on.
I've got it narrowed down to a couple of color choices.
Graphite
Anchracite sp??
Matte Black
Matte Graphite Silver like on these Ultraleggeras.
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels...98365&
I'll be looking @ samples next week and decide on which color to go with.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

I figured rather than start a new thread I would ask my question here.
Ok so I picked up the Superleggeras and had them powdercoated Misty Lava.
My question is what size tire should I put on them. I've decided to go with the Dunlop Star Specs. I'm just not completely sure what size tire to put on. I'm tossed between 235-45-17 or 235-40-17. I've got to figure that I'll more than likely be driving these wheels to and from the evens so I'm trying to figure what is going to be a safe bet and maybe give me a little extra cushion for daily driving, but also want the performance edge for Auto-X so that has be leaning towards the 40 series. 
Will I be able to tell the difference one way or the other?
Any help would be greatly appreciated http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

I would go with the 40 series as it will have less sidewall flex. It won't be a huge difference though.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (JDriver1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_I would go with the 40 series as it will have less sidewall flex. It won't be a huge difference though.

Thanks for the input. The funny thing is that in the MKIV forums someone suggested that I go with the 45 series








I guess I'll decide one way or the other and have to live with it.








It would be great if I could run both sizes and then decide. If only money wasn't an issue


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

Why not 245/40/17. Just a tad shorter and significantly wider. 235/40 is quite short.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_Why not 245/40/17. Just a tad shorter and significantly wider. 235/40 is quite short.

Do you think going that wide would be a problem if I was using them for daily driving as well? I guess I never really thought about going that wide........... I wonder if rubbing would be an issue?
Looks like I have one more option to ponder


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*

^probably the best recommendation. Based on this thread (didn't rescan to look for suspension specifics) I'm guessing you aren't 'stupid' low and you won't have any problems with rubbing.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (JDriver1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_^probably the best recommendation. Based on this thread (didn't rescan to look for suspension specifics) I'm guessing you aren't 'stupid' low and you won't have any problems with rubbing. 

Nah I'm not stupid low. My Koni Coilovers are set has High as they will go actually







I'm not all about low, since I daily drive it and don't like bashing my car on uneven roadways, plus I know that going real low destroys the geometry of these cars suspension systems and makes them handle worse than if you were at stock height.
Now to investigate the 245 option.........


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

I can't say for sure if they will clear 100%. When I went to 245s I was running GC camber caster plates. However, with the plates I was able to run a 15mm spacer on the frt wheels which just about flushed out the fender when used with a 17x8 and a 245/40/17. So without the camber it will be very close. I have since gone on to 255s and 285s and done a bit more modification for tire clearance.
I was using the 245s for both autox and street use and have never had a problem daily driving them. I will actually be going back to the 245s for daily driving soon.
If the clearance is there I would say the 245 is a better option than the 235/40 as the 235 is significantly shorter and will affect your mpg. On the plus side the shorter gearing will be a definite plus coming out of corners, but the increased grip of the 245 will be faster overall. Personally I would just go 245/40/17 w/o question, unless of course you're going to go wider.


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## JDriver1.8t (May 20, 2005)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*

I've ran 245 or 255 in the front for the last 4 sets of tires. I only rubbed on my first set and that was because I bought the wrong size (245/45/18) and they were too tall and rubbed at full lock.
Now that I'm on air I have two sets of wheels. One with narrow tires (225s) and one set with wide tires.

Offset plays a big factor when going to wide tires. Just something to keep in mind.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*

Yeah I think that 245 would be my upper limit that I would feel safe purchasing/ running on my car. I would hate to go wider and then realize they don't fit http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif 
Glad to hear that you didn't have any issues with them for daily driving use, because I'm not sure if I got the bank roll to purchase another set of Summer rims for daily driving use.
Plus the 245-40-17 would put me pretty close to the stock size, so my mileage wouldn't suffer too bad and my odometer/speedo would be reading correctly. 
Thanks for the suggestion of looking into the 245 width tire. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (JDriver1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JDriver1.8t* »_I've ran 245 or 255 in the front for the last 4 sets of tires. I only rubbed on my first set and that was because I bought the wrong size (245/45/18) and they were too tall and rubbed at full lock.
Now that I'm on air I have two sets of wheels. One with narrow tires (225s) and one set with wide tires.

Offset plays a big factor when going to wide tires. Just something to keep in mind.

Yeah the OZ Superleggeras are 17x8 with an ET of 35, so I would think that the offset should be fine if I decide to go with the 245-40-17 tire.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

Where does ur spring perch currently reside? Above or below the wheel/tire? With that wheel fitment and tire size you'll want to make sure the perch is above the tire to fit it w/o spacers.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_Where does ur spring perch currently reside? Above or below the wheel/tire? With that wheel fitment and tire size you'll want to make sure the perch is above the tire to fit it w/o spacers.

I'm assuming you are talking about the rear spring perch........ then yes it is above the wheel/ tire. My Koni Coilover are currently set as high as they recommended to go. I'm not into the whole low scene, so no worries there. I'm more about function than form.


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## rex_racer (May 19, 2001)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (3L3M3NT)*

I actually meant the front perch, as seen in this pic: 








A 17x8 et 35 should end up running pretty close to the shock, so you want to make sure the spring perch is above the tire to ensure maximum clearance. Sounds like that won't be a problem for you though.


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## 3L3M3NT (Jun 18, 2008)

*Re: Wheel Size for Auto X ??? (rex_racer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rex_racer* »_I actually meant the front perch, as seen in this pic: 








A 17x8 et 35 should end up running pretty close to the shock, so you want to make sure the spring perch is above the tire to ensure maximum clearance. Sounds like that won't be a problem for you though.

Good thing that you mention that, because I haven't really looked into that side of things. I would imagine that since my suspension is set so "high" that it won't be an issue, but I'll make sure I check the clearance before I go ahead and order tires.


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