# Heater Core Change / Flushing



## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

hi all,
has anyone changed heater cores for the car? anyone has any suggestions? I am really hesitating because it is a lot of money.....
thanks!


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Johnny:

You do not want to even *think *of doing a heater core exchange unless it is absolutely necessary. It is the most complex maintenance task that exists on the vehicle, more complicated even than removing the engine and transmission.

This is because when a Phaeton is built, the very first part that is installed in the bare metal body is the heater core. Then, every other part is subsequently installed. This means that to remove the heater core from the vehicle, an enormous amount of disassembly is required: removal of the steering column, removal of the entire dashboard, etc. The risk of things getting screwed up and not reassembled properly is very high.

Michael


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

*Flushing heater core procedures*

Hi all, 

My heater cores are not working well. It's really expensive to change them, so before I do that, I want to try to flush the heater cores by some non vw car shop because vw dealer charges $600 to flush them... It would be very helpful if anyone could give me specific procedures and tips and things to pay attention to before some damages happen to the car.
Thank you!

Johnny


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Michael,
Thank you. That's what exactly I am thinking. But because of the heating is not working and the phaeton expert pointed out that it should be the bad heater cores. He told me that in order to change them, it needs a ton of work and it will take 20 something hours and the price will be over 2K.
So there is another solution that might work, which is to back flush the heater cores to see if anything that stuck in it can be washed out. It makes sense to try to flush them before I spend 2k on changing them. But vw dealer charges $600 to flush the heater cores and I think it's way too pricy. So I want other trustful car shop to flush the cores for me. But I am worried with the phaeton because it is a really special car. That's why I want to know the procedures and tips that I can give to the car shop to not damage the car.

Thank you!
Johnny


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## Bindaham (Apr 4, 2014)

This video shows the pain sticking job of changing the heater core of a 2003 Passat

http://youtu.be/rgwiJDusp84

That's a lot of disassembly, imagine the same job on a Phaeton


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Johnny:

Before you do something too invasive make sure the electronic control mechanism for the heater operation is functioning properly with a good diagnostic scan. The heater is integrated not just physically but also functionally with the entire HVAC system. I believe there are two heater control valves that can stick or foul(plug) and render a heater core inoperable. A good scan should pick up any electronic control problems but I would check the heater control valve before proceeding with any heater core solutions. The only reason for a heater core to plug would be a coolant failure due to poor maintenance or a heater that was never used over many years. Since you are in NY I would assume you operated your heater for many months each year. That seems like it would be enough circulation through the core to keep it free. On the other hand a Florida car could have pretty stagnant coolant in the heater cores, which is not likely to be a good thing.

Good luck, because Michael and your tech are correct that physically replacing a heater core is something you do not want to do unless absolutely necessary.

Jim X


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Jim,
Thank you for answering. You are right. It is a lot of work and it is very serious to change heater cores. I suffered from this heating system very much because I am at NY area and now even worse because I am at boston area. 

This problem has been annoying me for a year. Every vent from driver side(except the B pillor one) does not blow hot air when idling. But when engine is revving around 1500rpm or above, the heat will work. Also sometimes if the car is idling on a ramp or some not flat surfaces, the heat will work temporarily without revving the engine.

It would be so great to fix this without changing the heater cores. What is the heater control valve that you mentioned? Could broken valve cause my problem? How do I check if that's the problem? There is no electrical faults from the scanning. Also I have replaced the water pump and thermostats so that won't be the issue.

Thank you very much!
Johnny


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Trust me. I have watched this video more than 10 times. Also I have seen my phaeton expert from the dealer doing the similar job on a new touareg. The parts he took off filled up the back seats and the trunk....


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Johnny,

The vent air temperatures are created from a mixture of cooled and heated air. So cool air could be due to a sticking _or misdirected_ duct flap only delivering the cooler part, with the heater core working perfectly. I guess that sensitivity to operation on a slope could also be due to a 'flappy' flap, perhaps.

It seems unlikely that an air lock could be present in a core unless there was a hose connector pinhole somewhere; it is not totally unknown for air to be sucked in on the low-pressure end of the water-pump circuit while the engine is cold.

It would be good to see a full VCDS scan posted here. VCDS can be used to trigger a full self-diagnostics computer test of the flap and air temperature measurement systems, which is another reason to inspect a scan result in detail rather than rely on the dealer automated analysis.

Is there anyone near you who has a VCDS cable and has time to donate?

Regards,
Chris


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Chris,
I do have a VCDS scan tool. but the thing is I am not going to be home for awhile. So I am not able to scan the car the second. but I do have a scan report from this May. The problem was there already at that time.

Wednesday,28,May,2014,12:08:29:16231
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator
VCDS Version: 12.12.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20140212


VIN: WVWAF63D948009579 License Plate: 
Mileage: 126460km-78578mi Repair Order: 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 3D (3D - VW Phaeton (2002 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 05 06 07 08 09 11 13 15 16 17 18 19 23 27 28 29 2E
34 36 37 38 39 46 47 55 56 57 65 66 68 69 71 75 76 77

VIN: WVWAF63D948009579 Mileage: 126460km/78578miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 4D0-907-560-BGH.lbl
Part No SW: 4D0 907 560 CS HW: 
Component: 4.2L V8/5V G 0030 
Coding: 0007873
Shop #: WSC 08126 444 83438
VCID: 79F7E4A933E635D6DC9-515A

3 Faults Found:
18339 - Coolant Fan Control Module (J293) 
P1931 - 002 - Malfunction - Intermittent
18080 - Coolant Fan Control 1 
P1672 - 004 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent
17883 - EVAP Leak Detection Pump 
P1475 - 001 - Malfunction / No Signal - Intermittent
Readiness: 0000 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09L-927-760.lbl
Part No SW: 09L 927 760 C HW: GS1 9.0 4.1 
Component: AG6 09L 4,2L V8 1003 
Coding: 0001102
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 377322914572E3A66AD-5178

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 3D0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 3D0 614 517 R
Component: ESP 5.7 allrad H33 0043 
Coding: 0008376
Shop #: WSC 08126 000 00000
VCID: 31671C89AB163D96249-5178

No fault code found.

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Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. Labels: 3D0-909-13x-05.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 909 135 M HW: 5WK 470 26
Component: Kessy 6400 
Coding: 0137452
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2F631AF1BD222B6632D-515A

Subsystem 1 - Part No: XXXXXXXXXXX 
Component: ELV XXXX

2 Faults Found:
00003 - Control Module 
012 - Electrical Fault in Circuit
00165 - Switch for Transmission Position P/N 
007 - Short to Ground - Intermittent

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 06: Seat Mem. Pass Labels: 3D0-959-759.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 759 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 BF 1520 
Coding: 0000003
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 356F28995F7E11B6781-515A

No fault code found.

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Address 07: Control Head Labels: 3D0-035-00x-07.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 008 M
Component: ZAB COCKPIT 0188 
Coding: 0500305
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2449E5DDE4E4983EDFF-515A

1 Fault Found:
00384 - Optical Databus 
004 - No Signal/Communication

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Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 3D0-907-040.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 040 G
Component: Climatronic D1 1132 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2245E3C5FEF0960EAD3-5178

No fault code found.

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Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 3D0-937-049-V1.clb
Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001 
Coding: 0000002
Shop #: WSC 08160 444 51229
VCID: 2E5D07F5BA28226E39B-5178

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D0 937 049 G
Component: STG.Bordnetz 5001

No Faults Found
or DTCs not supported by controller
or a communication error occurred

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 3D0-909-601.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 601 D
Component: 0A Airbag 8.4E+ H07 0934 
Coding: 0012353
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2449E5DDE4E4983EDFF-515A

No fault code found.

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Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 3D0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 3D0 953 549 E
Component: Lenks鋟lenmodul 3401 
Coding: 0000232
Shop #: WSC 08126 444 125936
VCID: 2F631AF1BD222B6632D-5178

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 3D0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 3D0 920 981 H
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT RB4 0411 
Coding: 0005221
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2C590DFD8C34507E17F-5178

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901 
Component: Gateway K<>CAN 0101 
Coding: 0000006
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: F0E1598DE09CF49EEB7-5178

No fault code found.

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Address 28: HVAC, Rear Labels: 3D0-919-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 158 F
Component: Klima-Bedienteil D1 0117 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E5D07F5BA28226E39B-515A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 29: Left Light Labels: 3D0-909-157.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 157 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(l) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E6CD3FD5D2582A2E81B-5196

No fault code found.

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Address 34: Level Control Labels: 3D0-907-553-V1.clb
Part No: 3D0 907 553 B
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 1101 
Coding: 0017700
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 264DFFD592D86A2EC1B-5178

No fault code found.

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Address 36: Seat Mem. Drvr Labels: 3D0-959-760.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 760 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 F 1520 
Coding: 0000004
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 2D5F00F9B72E5976001-5178

No fault code found.

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Address 37: Navigation Labels: 3D0-919-887.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 887 A
Component: NAVIGATION 0147 
Coding: 0400000
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: 32651385AE10068E5D3-5178

1 Fault Found:
00625 - Vehicle Speed Signal 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent

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Address 38: Roof Electronics Labels: 3D0-907-135.lbl
Part No: 3D0 907 135 B
Component: Dachmodul 0605 
Coding: 0000015
Shop #: WSC 08126 444 109235
VCID: 2245E3C5FEF0960EAD3-5178

5 Faults Found:
00222 - Connection to Rain Sensor 
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
00403 - Sunroof Motor (V1) 
000 - -
00202 - Rear Reading Lamp Button (E329) 
007 - Short to Ground
00216 - Signal EC-mirror Fade Out 
009 - Open or Short to Ground
01520 - Rain and Light Recognition Sensor (G397) 
005 - No or Incorrect Basic Setting / Adaptation

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 39: Right Light Labels: 3D0-909-158.lbl
Part No: 3D0 909 158 
Component: EVG GDL+AutoLWR(r) X012 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 01065 000 00000
VCID: E7D332D1D5523326BAD-5196

No fault code found.

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Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 3D0-959-933.lbl
Part No: 3D0 959 933 F
Component: 1A HSG 0100 
Coding: 0000040
Shop #: WSC 12345 123 45725
VCID: 336B1681510A0F86565-4B32

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 3D1 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet FS 0104

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 3D1 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet BF 0104

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 3D0 959 703 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HL 0104

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 3D0 959 704 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet HR 0104

Subsystem 5 - Part No: 3D0 909 610 F
Component: 3P HDSG 2630

Subsystem 6 - Part No: 7L0 907 719 
Component: Neigungssensor 0020

No fault code found.

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Address 47: Sound System Labels: 7Lx-035-4xx-47.lbl
Part No: 3D0 035 466 
Component: 12K-AUDIOVERST 0115 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: DFC32A310D027BE642D-5178

No fault code found.

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Address 65: Tire Pressure Labels: None
Part No: 3D0 907 273 G
Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0026 
Coding: 0210330
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2A550BE586C04E4EE53-5178

No fault code found.

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Address 66: Seat, Rear Labels: None
Part No: 3D0 959 860 B
Component: Sitzmemory D1 H 1524 
Coding: 0000001
Shop #: WSC 08126 444 109235
VCID: 2E5D07F5BA28226E39B-515A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 68: Wiper Electr. Labels: 3D1-955-119.lbl
Part No: 3D1 955 119 
Component: Front Wiper 2005 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: E6CD3FD5D2582A2E81B-5178

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 71: Battery Charger Labels: 3D0-915-181.lbl
Part No: 3D0 915 181 D
Component: Batteriemanagement 2800 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2449E5DDE4E4983EDFF-515A

No fault code found.

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Address 75: Telematics Labels: 3D0-035-617.lbl
Part No SW: 3D0 035 617 HW: 3D0 035 617 
Component: Telematik NAR1 0101 
Coding: 0061860
Shop #: WSC 08319 444 84786
VCID: DDBF1039070E69F6501-515A

2 Faults Found:
00862 - Antenna for GPS Navigation (R50/R52) 
007 - Short to Ground - MIL ON
01528 - Auxiliary Antenna for Telematic (R90) 
010 - Open or Short to Plus - MIL ON

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: 3D0-919-283.lbl
Part No: 3D0 919 283 C
Component: 03 Einparkhilfe 0807 
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2A550BE586C04E4EE53-515A

No fault code found.

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you,
Johnny


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

Johnny:

Since there are no diagnostic errors on the HVAC system, I would assume there are no faults with flap motors nor any electrical problems with the heater control valve. However, I think any blockage in the heater control valve could be problematic and still might not trip an error code. If I recall the heater control valve, which is actually two valves in one - since you have 2 heater cores, is located at the rear of the engine and up top. It is likely to have one coolant hose entering and two exiting. It will also have an electrical connection or two. The valves are usually actuated with a solenoid and as I remember these are cylindrical protrusions on the valve housing. Chris(Paximus) has a good thought regarding an air lock in the offending core or its supply line. A good flush and fill using VWs pressure filling may be a great idea. They may elect to use a light chemical to aid in cleaning the system. 

Best of luck.

Jim X


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Jim,
Thank you very much. I will definitely try to flush the cores. Regarding to what you said, do I have to do this at a VW dealer or I can do this at some other car shop? VW dealer charges me 600 bucks to flushing it and does not guarantee it will work. Also what should I say to them? What's VW pressure filling?

Thank you again,
Johnny


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## Jxander (Aug 5, 2008)

I read a bit more on the Internet and it does seem fairly common for heater cores to clog. Lifetime coolants my pitutie!!!! So I would definitely try having it cleaned with an "approved" or trusted product and flushed. I don't think it is imperative to use a VW dealer. However, a shop that was familiar with VAG products or at least German vehicles including ones with two heater cores would be reassuring. Purging air from the cooling systems of some vehicles seems harder than with others. So considerable experience doing this task would be real plus. 

I may have mispoke when I used the term pressure fill. As I understand the VW system, they pull a vacuum on the system(great check for leaks) and remove all air and then suck the new coolant in as to fill all voids. 

Jim X


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Jim,
Thank you for all your thoughts! I will definitely give it a try and I will follow up the results.
Thank you again!
Johnny


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Johnny,

The Phaeton HVAC is very complicated. Probably only a Rolls-Royce Phantom has a more complex system. The heat being delivered to the vents by each heat exchanger output is mostly due to 5 factors:
<OL><LI>the amount of cold air being directed into the air flow from the refrigeration evaporator</LI><LI>the accuracy of the refrigeration temperature sensor</LI><LI>the amount of hot coolant pumped through each heat exchanger radiator by the Pump Valve Unit</LI><LI>the accuracy of the heat exchanger output temperature sensors (two of them)</LI><LI>amount of heat being demanded by the computer, which is using either correct or incorrect sensor information.</LI></OL>
So suspecting that an exchanger is blocked is certainly one possible cause of your problem (but wouldn't the rest of the engine cooling system also be contaminated?), but there are many other possibilities. Sensors, valves and pumps are all components that are known to fail in all vehicles from time to time.

The diagrams of the heat exchanger control system are published in Self Study document SSP 271, which is usually posted online here. It is well worth a look, particularly pages 16 (heater fluid flow circuit), 19 (Pump Valve Unit), 35 (driver's climate zone air flow) and pp40-41 (control valves, pumps and sensors diagram).

Personally I would investigate the Pump Valve Unit operation first, then try to decide if that set of devices (the Unit is a bunch of valves and pump impellers) is responding correctly to computer commands, or if the computer is giving it poor commands (due to bad sensor information) which it is obeying correctly.

Chris


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Chris,
Thank you. You are right. Many components are related to the heating system. But the problem is that I do get heat. Specifically for the drivers side two vents, including the driver side defogging vent, I will get good amount of heat when the engine is revving. The cabin was always so hot when I travel on the highway for a while since I always put the temperature to "High". If there is bad sensor, how does that relate to the RPM of the engine?
Also , how can I check on the valve unit? I do have a VCdS. 
Regards,
Johnny


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## Saeid (May 29, 2013)

Hi Johnny,
I think we have the same problem. I have no heating issue when engine is at RPM above 2000 and when the RPM falls below 2000 or when idling I loose heat to the driver side and not so to the passenger side and this almost happens instantly and if I rev the engine heat comes back. no issue in cooling mode. I was planning to flush the coolant but even though that is a good idea the problem seems to be the Coolant circulation pump V50 that may not be working properly and when the engine is running at higher rpm the water pump is creating enough pressure that helps the circulation pump at the heating side.
I will be working on this in a few weeks and report if you have not fixed yours by then I will report the result.
Saeid


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,

Yes that is exactly what my problem is. Wow. Cannot believe it. I hope we can fix this problem. Is the pump you mentioned the same as the water pump? If it is the water pump then it cannot be the problem because when I change the timing belt, I already replaced the water pump and since I believe there is only one water pump, this cannot explain why only one side does not work properly. That is my thought on this. Not sure if it's right.

Regards,
Johnny


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## Saeid (May 29, 2013)

Hi Johnny,
no that is the pump valve unit page19 and Coolant circulation pump V50 page 63 that Chris book marked earlier, not sure if it has to be replaced as whole or not.
Thanks,
Saeid


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,
Thank you for explaining. Now I see. That might be the problem. I will look into it too. Please post if you get any information or any results when you work on this problem. Thank you.

Also, is the pump V50 same as the Auxiliary pump, which runs when the residual heating function is activated?
Regards,
Johnny


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Just curious, what is meant by the term "heat layering" as mentioned in the SSP.

Context:

"This is also part of the pump valve unit and primarily has the task of preventing heat layering within the heat exchanger. To achieve this, the coolant is continuously circulated in the heat exchangers."

Damon


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,
I think that means the hot coolant is not running through the heater core continuously. To prevent this from happening, it needs the pump to pump the hot coolant through the heater cores.

regards,
Johnny


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## Saeid (May 29, 2013)

After reading and searching a bit more I think there is another coolant pump (Electric) in the V8 cooling system that supplies additional circulation to the cooling system which includes the heating core (I know this is available in the W12) the part # is 3D0965561D for the ones with auxiliary heater and 7L0965561L or 7L0965561 refers to "additional coolant pump; for vehicle use in warm; climates; low temperat-"
http://www.partsbase.org/vw/phaeton-phae-us-2004-12140-coolant-cooling-system/
I think this pump is what is failing and causing not sufficient coolant circulation when the engine is at idle and all works fine when the RPM increases.
I have checked the Heating system pump and valve controls and all seem to function fine so this should be the only issue. I will investigate further this weekend and report back.
I have looked/searched in the repair manual and can not find a reference to it.
Thanks,
Saeid


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,
yes it seems like there are more than one pump in the diagram. Does a normal V8 have all these pumps? Did you flush your heater cores? That might be the problem too. Thank you!

Regards,
Johnny


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,
I think the pump that you 
mentioned is the auxiliary water pump. 3D0965561D

Regards,
Johnny


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## Saeid (May 29, 2013)

Hi Johnny,
from what I see there is two pumps one on the driver side of the Rad and that is the one you are referring to and is the cheaper and more ready available one around $70 and
the other one is the more expensive one 7L0965561L around $300.00 I have ordered the 3D0965561D and should be here next week and will install it and let you know.
It might be the combination of both and might also be the fact that the water pump may need changing soon.
I have not changed the Timing belt of the water pump and am planning to do it around the same time (just trying to figure out what source to order from) Has yours been done?
I have noticed that there is a big difference between the temperature on the driver's side of the radiator compared with the left side? must investigate farther.
Thanks,
Saeid


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,

No problem. If u get any result, pleases post here. I have changed the more expensive water pump already when I had my 80000miles service done. And the problem is still there. So I don't really think that's gonna be the issue. If changing the cheaper pump made the situation any better in your case, I will definitely change mine as well. Also it might be the clog of heater cores. So we might have to have a good flush.

also,the pump I mention is not $70. It is $238.32. That's the auxiliary water pump for V8.
The regular water pump is $324.98.
I didn't see the $70 pump you mentioned. Which one is that?

Regards,
Johnny


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## Saeid (May 29, 2013)

Hi Johnny,
The part # 3D0965561D just search it on amazon.com or carid.com under 2004 phaeton. it is a very common water pump.
thanks,
Saeid


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,
The price and parts on 1stvwparts.com are the original. And they offer discounts as well. You can always put the part number in.

Thanks,
Johnny


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,
How is your car doing? Did you get the new water pump in?

Johnny


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## jawee (Jul 4, 2014)

*Hi Saied*

Any updates or progress on this issue, my car (2004 phaeton) is doing exactly same thing low to no heat at idle drivers side, passenger side no issue. both sides fine if rpm over 1.5k, just seems a little to coincident that it is always the "drivers side" that is the issue. I can also get some heat if I put all other zones on low and only drivers on high (manual temp settings), then I get heat at idle at drivers vents. Going to try back flushing heater core will report findings.


Val


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,
I strongly believe it's the auxiliary water pump. When I get a chance I will change that. I don't believe it's because of the heater core. Please report any updates. Thank you.

Johnny


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## Saeid (May 29, 2013)

Hi,
I sprung a coolant leak at the oil cooler which I am dealing with right now and refuse to take the engine out to get the job done.
I have checked the auxiliary pump at the passenger side which works fine. I will be checking the driver side auxiliary pump shortly ( As Johnny Said should be the cause of the problem) and if that is fine then it must be the circulation Pump V50 which should be easy enough to check ( This is the pump with two zone valves that controls how much hot coolants flows to each Heater core) but I can’t get to that until I put the car back together first.
Saeid


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,
Good luck on your fixtion. In my opinion, the V50 pump is the auxiliary pump. There are only 2 water pumps in the system, one is the one runs by belt, the other one is the V50(auxiliary) pump. On my repair manual, it says that if the car has an auxiliary heater, the V50 pump will be under the heat valve units. If the car doesn't have the auxiliary heater( which I think no NAR phaetons have), the V50pump is on the left bottom behind the wheel liner.

Regards,
Johnny


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## Saeid (May 29, 2013)

Hi Johnny,
From what I understand there are 4 pumps
1 mechanical only one when engine is running and also supplies heat to the heater core
2 Auxiliary pump works sometimes only (services the transmission and is on at low temperatures to heat the TF and also comes on when transmission temp above normal) See below link Item # 12 http://www.partsbase.org/vw/phaeton-phae-us-2004-12140-coolant-cooling-system/
3 Auxiliary pump driver side by front bumper. This services the heating system at low RPM and when engine is off to circulate hot water through the system and also supplemental to the Pump Valve control unit for the two heater cores. Item # 60 http://www.partsbase.org/vw/phaeton...ng-system-for-vehicles-with-auxiliary-heater/
4 the Pump Valve at above link item # 45 which has a small pump and 2 zone controls which limits the amount of liquid to each heater core based on the temp settings. now this pump is at the highest point of coolant and slightest air in the system will cause it not to function and I think that is why the auxiliary pump was added at the lowest point in the system.
So I think one of these two pumps are failing to function properly and I am hopping it is the Item #60 all these pumps are present in my V8
3D0965561C is cheapest of the two and simplest to change and hoping this is the one to change if needed. Again once I get every thing together I will report back

http://www.partsbase.org/parts/vw-3d0965561c/

Saeid


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi Saeid,
I looked at the diagram again and I did find some additional pumps. That made this problem even more complicated. Here is a diagram and I hope it can help.


































Regards,
Johnny


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## jawee (Jul 4, 2014)

*issue resolved*

Hi Everyone

Flushed both heater cores, no change issue remained. coolant temp 90c drivers heater core around 35c and passengers around 50c. more or less cold air on drivers side.


Changed aux pump inside drivers wheel well. issue resolved coolant temp 90c drivers core 85c passenger 88c. all temperatures at idle. heat works very well now.

Should note original pump was 3D0965561c ($200.00) and not in stock used pump 3D0965561D ($80.00) in stock, it will work but you do need to make custom connector as electrical connection is different and will not fit without modifications. Also had vapor lock after replacing this pump so make sure to bleed system very well after replacing this pump took over 20 minutes of running engine at idle and 2-3k to clear all air from the system and I lost less than .5l of fluid changing the pump out.

Sorry for the delay, my primary fuel pump decided to die in the middle of doing this so it took priority.


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Thank you very much. I will definitely do this change. I will report back later.

Johnny


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

hello,
Could you please tell me what was the labor on changing the auxiliary water pump? One dealer said about 290 dollars($118 per hour) and another said they have never done it and it could take 4 to 5 hours.

Thanks!
Johnny


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## jawee (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi Jonny

I did it myself, took less than 1.5 hr complete with custom connector for the electrical part and I took my time. The pump is located behind the shield inside the front wheel well drivers side. You do need to jack up the front and remove the tire, remove the inner fender shield (7-10 bolts, clips) once this is off look from the wheel towards the front of the car it is easy to get to, one clamp, two hoses, one electrical connection, nothing else to remove to get access only the unit itself. If you were to buy the exact pump so no electrical change I cant see the actual replacement taking more than 10 minutes, the bleeding of the system will take 30-40 minutes.


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi all, 
Thanks for everyone's help. After 2 years of discussing about this problem, I finally changed the auxiliary water pump today, and it magically solved this problem. I am glad I didn't listen to another dealer a year ago by changing the heater core. It's a $290 dollar job for installation. Now the heat works just awesome.

Regards,
Johnny


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

Did you both have the auxilary heater? I can't find the auxilary pump on the v8 with auxilary heater 

Jorg


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hello Jorg,

I don't have the auxiliary heater. I think for phaeton that does not have auxiliary heater, the auxiliary water pump is behind the driver's wheel liner. For phaeton that has the auxiliary heater, the pump is located under passenger side plenum chamber, next to the heat regulating valve.

regards,

Johnny


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## jawee (Jul 4, 2014)

Hi

Yes I do have the aux heat, pump is in same location, but our cars are both 2004 so I don't know if the 03 is different


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## Jorgsphaeton (Sep 8, 2009)

Did you remove the heater, because I can see the pump probably, but there is no space to remove the hoses, I can't even see the hoses or connector.

Jorg


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## wrightbenz (Feb 27, 2016)

Reviving old thread here but. 
What was the issue with the bad pump was it not working at all ? I'm guessing it still spun but just didn't pump correctly. 
I am having the same issue with my V8 Model and plan to dig into this.


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,

Buy an auxillary water pump. I think it was 200~300 dollars. Then have the VW dealership install it, which cost addition 200 dollars for me. And problem is solved.

Johnny


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## wrightbenz (Feb 27, 2016)

I have not problem with installing the pump. I was just curious what was wrong with it. Nothing showing up on the vcds scan saying it isn't working not that that means it isn't. 
I will buy the cheaper pump like you did and adapt it. They are only $60 so why not. Is yours still working correctly ? Was the only difference the connector ?


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

Hi,

For any parts that are related to the engine, I think using new parts is always a better idea. It is not something you want to swap around every other day. When I took a look at the old pump, nothing visually was wrong. I cannot even tell if that's the old or new one. It was that clean. It was probably due to internal motor failure so the pump was working intermittently. It is very hard to visually check whether the used pump is in good condition or not. That is not going to show up on the vcds scan. I would just buy a new pump and install it, at least now I know it will last for a very long time.

Johnny


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## damian212 (Mar 2, 2017)

What is the name of program from screens "johnnyjiang"?


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## johnnyjiang (Feb 24, 2014)

It's Bentley Publishers Repair manual for phaeton.


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## alex32 (Nov 16, 2020)

hello guys

can anyone help me? i have vw phaeton v6 3.0 tdi from 2010,i have a problem with the heating,on the driver side is blowing hot air but in the midle and the passager side is cold,i dont know why,i dont have any error code i scan with VCDS.
i flushed the cores,i try evrything but still nothing.
I it possible to dont work becouse my webasto is broken ? today i go at my garrage to cancel webasto to see is from there.

any ideeas ? 

Thank you!

ps:sorry if i write something wrong


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

It's one of the flap motors, I forget which one. VCDS is not showing any errors on the climate control? You can run an adaptation, it won't help but it should throw a code.


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