# Porting the 8v head.....



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

I know this has been asked a million times....and ive been reading about 2 hrs every night in the search forums about this topic....But does anyone have good detailed pics of the work done in the bowl area and have measurements to go with it??? or possibly any pics with a stock bowl then a ported bowl to compare it too?? 
The reason im asking is my head and intake had a port job done over 7-8 yrs ago and im wanting to refreshen it up or just measure it to see if the guy even did what he was supposed to do...I just ordered the TT 42x35mm big valve kit and would like to get the most possible flow from this...
I got this pic from wikepedia....wut would be the areas to concentrate on?? If someone could go over it with red lines...










_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 6:23 PM 10-30-2009_


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## drunkenwhippet (Apr 27, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

All i can really suggest is to build a flowbench and compare with that. I'd love to have the time / money to build one and get some heads and intakes to play with then swap when i get the best one.. but i'd probably benefit more by correcting whatever is wrong with my lambda CIS.
but if you google diy flow bench, you should find a wealth of info.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (drunkenwhippet)*

Yeah ive got every page bookmarked on diy flow benches that i could find...The most practical one i found was this one and can be made from at home products..its definitely a diy project but i wonder how good it is....
http://www.turbosport.co.uk/sh...38348


_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 8:01 AM 10-31-2009_


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

the short turn radius is where most gains are had, ideally the air should go in as straight a line to the valve as possible. 
here is a drawing of the port angle on a honda b series head








that should explain why the 8v head flows so poorly.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

So by doing something like this below...i went over the original image with red lines....Also ive spent about 4 hours looking for the pics of the 8v head cutaway showing the intake and exhaust ports..cant seem to find them again...does anyone have them saved and can u post them up??? This would definitely help as it will show exactly how much can be removed...


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Found this in the N/A forum but its of an ABA crossflow head. Anyone have some pics like this of an mk2 counterflow???

_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_ABA head


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Sorry for so much posting but just trying to get all the usefull info on heads and porting into one place....

_Quote, originally posted by *Eric D* »_VWMS had these specs for CIS and Digifant 8v heads. All specs measured in MM. Gruppe A racing specs.
CIS.
Intake Radii R= 16 +/-1
Exhaust Radii R= 13 +/-1
Head inlet and intake manifold ports have the same specs:
Height 36 +/-2, 27 width +/-2 port size.
Head exhaust and exhaust manifold inlet ports have the same specs:
Height 35 +/-2, width 27 +/-2 
Exhaust manifold dual outlet port specs:
44
Exhaust manifold single outlet clamp type port specs:
65 

Digifant.
Intake Radii R= 16 +/-1
Exhaust Radii R= 13.5 +/-1
Head inlet and intake manifold ports have the same specs:
Height 36 +/-2, 27 width +/-2
Head exhaust specs:
Height 35 +/-2, width 27 +/-2
Exhaust manifold inlet port specs:
Height 34 +/-2, width 27 +/-2 
Exhaust manifold dual outlet port specs:
45 +/-2
_Modified by Eric D at 12:19 PM 3-20-2008_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Nice pic of a ported intake compared to a stock intake.......

_Quote, originally posted by *GTOBB* »_I found this in my ppirelli gti


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_here is the scoop (pic photo credit goes to avwg60)...








bottom is the stock 8v hydro counterflow head... top is the Eurospec head...

_Modified by Peter Tong at 1:16 PM 12-21-2006_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Thread about some guys DIY port job....
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3012963


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Tong* »_Here is my eurospec head prior to clean up:
















and after extra headwork and cleaned up:


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RallyeRichard* »_Do you recognize the hand of a master, many, many hours and a flowbench??








Had this done in Germany by an ex-Nothelle employee that started his own workshop.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Butcher* »_Solid heads can be machined down flush. Fast Bunny said they do crack if you do that [mine never did]. Fast Bunny knows his stuff so the next time I would not machine mine flush. Hyd heads do not have the meat the solid heads do and you will go thur the spring seat and ruin your head if you cut too much off. Taper the valve guides [more than stock] and use smaller valve stems [7mm] are the best way to go.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

This is from Gus Mahons site...Flow bench using a leaf blower....::








Here's a quickie flow bench set up. It will not tell you how many CFM a piece is flowing, but it's *great* for direct comparisons of: "Which piece flows better than which??" If you have a regulated voltage supply, you can make comparisons of parts tested on different days. If your voltage supply is *not* regulated, you must compare the different parts on the same day, checking to make sure that voltage isn't fluctuating during the test, with a voltmeter. You don't want to test one port at 112V AC, then test another port at 118V AC; the leaf blower will slightly vary it's output.
As long as you have steady voltage to the electric leaf blower, you get very meaningful comparisons. The higher the back pressure reading, the less the part flows. I've tested mufflers, cats, and filters this way.
For a head, you'd just need to seal the leaf blower to the head with modeling clay, and hold it there during the reading of the gauge.








Here is some information that I derived on the homemade flow bench. I used the electric leaf blower on the same speed, and same voltage, on every test. I did the tests more than once to establish repeatability. The backpressure readings are in inches of WATER, not inches of MERCURY, nor PSI. An inch of water is roughly 1/13 of an inch of mercury, so the gauge is 13 times more sensitive to backpressure than a mercury gauge can be.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *HPR* »_
8 V / 42 mm valve / approx 39 mm troat = 11.94 sq cm
16V / 32 mm valve / approx 29 mm troat = 6.60 x 2 = 13.20 sq cm
ITB 45mm = 15.9 sq cm
ITB 48 mm = 18.1 sq cm
decide were you want the powerband 
Now you see were material can be removed and get nice 
round curves ( think on a car in a wind tunnel with smoke over it )
sharp corners must be avoided as they kill laminate flow and generate vortexes 
the valve guide bowl can be reshaped or removed 
Dont make the valve guides too short, even if it cost some flow
A valve that is not guided well will not seal properly and will kill power output
Make attention on symmetry on ports / combustion chamber ( volume and shape) 
and valve height 
Make the port wall a bit coarse with sand paper as this prevent ( fuel ) wall wetting and compromise flow.
Cleanup around the valve in the combustion chamber so there is good flow as the valve opens


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettaboy1884* »_Edit: I never realized this article was written by David Vizard. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Here you go:








































Enjoy!
On a similar note, I also have the article on how to make a Rabbit into a Rally car. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
_Modified by Jettaboy1884 at 9:36 PM 10-23-2007_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Toadster* »_so what's the benefit on an 8V motor?
more responsive?
more power?
more efficient?
do we have any numbers on a port/polish job?


_Quote, originally posted by *ny_fam* »_Done right yes
http://www.scientificrabbit.com/node/2


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *silverG60* »_Here is the info I got from Jose at www.porttuning.com 
*Would a ported x-flow head with 42mm x 35mm valves give me major torque loss on a turbo car?* 
_Not at all if the porting is done right. If you port the head to large you will extent your turbo lag, because velocity of air is to slow. However, when you hit the sweet spot hold on. This will vary on engine size, turbo size and cam. Going with larger valves helps the flow through the entire lift range. You will not loose any torque if you keep the ports need stock._ 
*I know on an N/A car, high velocity must be kept to gain torque at low RPM. Therefore you would loose low end power with excessive porting. But what if on a force fed car?* _Porting the head for high end power will always hurt your bottom end. That's why there are race car and street cars. However, you can improve breathing with out hurting your bottom end._
*Now your pushing air through rather than being sucked in by vacuum. Port velocity would be dramatically different than that of an N/A car, do the same rules apply?* _The same rules apply. You must get air in and out as efficiently as possible. When the turbo hits it's sweet spot air velocity is getting higher than a N.A. car at the same RPM._ 
*Do force fed cars with larger more aggressive porting respond better at lower revs than N/A cars?* _No, because you extend your Turbo lag by reducing the velocity of the air._
This is basically what you guys said http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I Thought I would post anyway, good info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Nick
[Modified by silverG60, 7:24 PM 9-30-2002]


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Anyone wana add anything else here? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jamrabbit (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

could someone please sticky this thread?
this is some real good information that has come up so far. 
really dig your style majic, keep it up!


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (jamrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jamrabbit* »_could someone please sticky this thread?
this is some real good information that has come up so far. 
really dig your style majic, keep it up!

Thanx jamrabbit....just trying to get all the usefull info into one thread and i still havent gone through all the archived ones yet....


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_Bone stock 1990 8V hydro head....
...the rest is pretty self explanatory...
























































Fun stuff.


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## ds1919 (Oct 13, 2004)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

okay I'll add my 2 cents here.
I match ported and polished a few 8v heads in my time. Did they work correctly? Phhhh, who knows, not using any kind of flow bench and just using gut feeling of where the best place to take material off was.
From your description of the head you have, I would think that if you really wanted THEE most optimal performance, I would sell it and buy a great TT ported head. Those guys know what they're doing. It costs, but its worth the performance. Sounds like you're dealing with the unknown here, and may cost you more time and money than its worth in the end.
Oh yeah, that old artice above mentioned taking the valve seat out of the pocket for more flow. Thats another variable to consider....


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## oopseyesharted (Mar 2, 2005)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (ds1919)*

Here is mine fresh from the machine shop last week.


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I have 2 heads I can take pictures of for you guys next time I go home. 
A scooter racing ported head, and a eurospec head.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *secondgen* »_Few more:
















































Stock cam at highest lift, in the pics that have the valve open. No it's not the stock spring, it's just some light-duty one i had lying around the shop.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chois* »_
Here is the head.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MkIIRoc* »_Here's another head cross section, it's the first head I ported. Made decent power, but needs some work. (Especially now, has a leak I can't narrow down, haha)


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jettaboy1884* »_Here are a few cutaway 8v heads that I had saved on my PC.
Could anyone suggest some improvements to the intake & exhaust ports, as well as the combustion chamber?
Thanks in advance.
Here are a few pics of a crossflow 8v (ABA):
Intake:
















Exhaust:
















And here are two more pictures of a counterflow 8v head:
Intake:








Exhaust:












_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 4:53 AM 11-20-2009_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

Cylinder Head Porting written by David Vizard:
http://www.popularhotrodding.c....html


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## newguy99 (Jul 2, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

Another one looking for as much info as we can get on this.
Starting on mine soon


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## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Mor Vizard. Lesson 2 of 10. (more links at the bottom of the lesson)
http://www.gofastnews.com/boar....html


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Forgot to bring my camera home this weekend. But anyway here is a pic of a 1.6l head with great port work. raised roofs enlarged prepped for carbs or itb's.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

This is the extra head ive been working on.....








Intake...








Tools....


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Good Thread.
I've accumulated a bit of info over the past few years. I'll try and pull it together to share. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Awesome thread, exactly what I have been looking for.
This definetly needs a sticky.
Steve-


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

Another good porting article...More geared towards v8's but still has alot of useful info...
http://www.popularhotrodding.c....html


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

Wikipedia's definition of cylinder head porting.......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_head_porting


_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 9:15 AM 12-2-2009_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

Good porting article by Mike Holler....
http://www.allpar.com/fix/holler/porting.html
http://www.allpar.com/fix/holler/head-porting.html
http://www.allpar.com/fix/holl....html
http://www.allpar.com/fix/holler/porting2.html
http://www.allpar.com/fix/holl....html


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*

More god info.....
http://65corvette.nonethewiser...t.pdf


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## boxerpicker (Jun 28, 2009)

im all ready to port my head after i found this thread!


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (boxerpicker)*


_Quote, originally posted by *boxerpicker* »_im all ready to port my head after i found this thread!

Good to know ppl are liking it....Got pics of my homemade flow bench coming soon.....And its totally possible for everyone to make one....


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: Porting the 8v head..... (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_Good porting article by Mike Holler....


Very interesting articles. He's applying several techniques all at once. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MidnightRacer* »_The type of porting for your car will depend on the type of set up you want to run. Turbo cars like smaller port, high velocity ports without a lot of overall port volume. Nitrous and supercharged cars like the bigger ports with more overall port volume. The N/A street motors like the smaller, high velocity ports, like the turbo cars. Drag N/A motors will tend to like the bigger ports, this gets rid of the bottom end, but they want top end so it really does not matter.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

good info


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (BSD)*

Good pics of professionally ported ABA and JH heads from SCCH....
ABA head(Note that the guide bosses are completely removed on intake and exhaust ports on this hydro head??????,...Hmmmmm)
http://scch-heads.com/viewhead2.php?id=15
JH head
http://scch-heads.com/viewhead2.php?id=17


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

the head on my motor is supposed to be ported according to my seller... but it is still bolted to the block i dont wanna remove it... any way to tell by just peering into it? 








far away pic 








here's the cam for ****s and giggles 


_Modified by bunnyhopin at 6:11 PM 12-9-2009_


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bunnyhopin* »_the head on my motor is supposed to be ported according to my seller... but it is still bolted to the block i dont wanna remove it... any way to tell by just peering into it? 


Your pic is to far away...You need a close up pic of the ports to tell............


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

will take pics asap... can u tell what head it is? im new to the mk1's in a technical aspect


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

Take some good pictures down into the ports. Use the Macro feature on your camera (if you have it, it's usually a flower icon).
Judging from the pics, it looks like you may have a solid lifter head. Not sure though.


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bunnyhopin* »_... can u tell what head it is? 

Definitely a 1.8L head, definitely solid lifter, definitely a big valve head, not 100% sure but it looks to me like an 84 head in any case, it definitely 84 or newer and if it newer, it would have come off of an 85-87 Scirocco or Cabriolet.
That style head is probably my favourite 8V VW head, an excellent head on which to base an 8v project.
It's tough of say from those pictures but the ports seem rounder than normal stock ports which is typical of a ported head, and again hard to say with certainty but that doesn't quite look like a stock cam either. 



_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 5:25 AM 12-11-2009_


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

dont feel like typing all the info so here... stalled project that is now back in motion 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4357752
im not sure if all the info from the seller was 100 percent true but if it is then im a happy man








- im not good with cameras but i will do my best will take pictures tonight while i work and try and post them up http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by bunnyhopin at 1:38 PM 12-11-2009_


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

































and hears one of the exhaust .. kinda dark


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (BSD)*

Porting Cylinder Heads - Port or Abort?
The worst head porting mistakes and how to avoid them!
By David Vizard

http://www.popularhotrodding.c....html


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bunnyhopin* »_the head on my motor is supposed to be ported according to my seller... but it is still bolted to the block i dont wanna remove it... any way to tell by just peering into it? 

Head definitely has some work done...looks like a street port..seems to have slightly bigger intake ports and they smoothed out all the casting marks.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

I agree, it looks like the ports have been lightly work.
BTW, I was was wrong about the years of that head, judging by the closeup, it appears to be an 83 head, I'm basing that on the absence of a vacuum gallery for air shrouded injectors.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

wow your good it is an 83 and the info from my seller is that it has been built by tectonics in the late 80's its supposed to be stroked and have a built bottom end... along with the porting cams ect ... but i wont know for sure until i remove the head.. thanks for the info keep an eye on my thread for updates http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

At one time or another, I've had 83, 84, 85 and 86 solid lifter 1.8L heads in my possession and I've taken notice of the subtle differences between them, the 83 head is the most unique of the bunch.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

good to know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif i was not gonna break down the motor but i figured now ill buy the full gasket kit and replace everything... being that the motor only has 1000 to 1500 miles on it since the build but about 10 years of sitten


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bunnyhopin* »_... being that the motor only has 1000 to 1500 miles on it since the build but about 10 years of sitten









That brings up bunch of other questions you need answers to. What do you need to look out for when dealing with a motor that's been sitting for 10 years? Does the oil on the bearings, rings and cylinder walls gum up or go bad when the engine hasn't been run for so long? Is it advisable to disassemble, clean and flush everything? What about all the rubber seals, are they going to be okay? I've never taken an engine out of long term storage without rebuilding it so I don't have the answers and, I think you need to ask the questions, perhaps in a new thread, somebody around here probably has experience in that area.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

the seller claimed he did start it up occasionally and put sea foam or sea something in the gas tank.... he told me he was going to put the engine in a different project car but he was tight on funds so he sold it to me http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

It's always a little risky to take a seller at his word. At a minimum, I'd say a REALLY thorough inspection is warranted. 



_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 3:49 PM 12-12-2009_


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

agreed http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## jamrabbit (Jul 18, 2005)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*

x3
i bought a p&p head off a local club member once, it had been dipped and decked and was a pretty clean looking head.
i have not taken the head apart yet, so im not sure whats wrong with it. but over 5000rpm, it sounds like its gonna fall apart.


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## bunnyhopin (Dec 19, 2007)

*Re: (jamrabbit)*
















sooooo happy .... the member who sold this to me is legit







extensive pics in my build thread dont wanna clutter this one with off topic stuff http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Here are some pics of my scooter racing jh head ported and polished stock sized valves decked a bit hd valve springs web cam etc. Happens to be for sale at the moment.


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (bunnyhopin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bunnyhopin* »_[img.]http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll218/oktayer16/DSC01579.jpg[/img.]







sooooo happy .... the member who sold this to me is legit







extensive pics in my build thread *dont wanna clutter this one with off topic stuff* http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Good.
Now back to head porting please.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (Mtl-Marc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Mtl-Marc* »_Now back to head porting please.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *speed-o-motive* »_A big nitrous engine likes everything about the exhaust to be big. If it flows good enough the cylinder will blow down by bottom dead center, even at high RPM with relatively mild exhaust valve timing.

Really good article
http://racingarticles.com/article_racing-10.html


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Cylinder Head Porting - The Zen Of Flow
Get A Jump On Making Power With Master Porter Mike Chapman
By Mike Chapman
http://www.circletrack.com/tec....html


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

VW Head Porting and modifications
http://www.scientificrabbit.com/node/3


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Valve shrouding how-to from diyporting.com
http://www.diyporting.com/Shrouding.html


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## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Does anybody know the maximum port size for a JH?
I do know this.
Stock
Inlet 30mm x 33mm
exhaust 25mm x 32mm
Eurospec
inlet 34mm x 38mm
exhaust 30mm x 37mm
It'd be great to get some more # information going, as i'd like to see the full potential of these heads.
If someone with a Stage 3 ported head could take some measurements I will paypal them for their time.








Steve-


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## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

it isn't really all about port size. Shape and velocity play a much bigger role. A stock head can be ported out to the same size as a stock eurospec head. The scooter racing head I posted on the previous page has almost identical ports to my stock casting eurospec head.


----------



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (BSD)*

I'll add that not all JH heads are the same, the 84+ heads have a little more material on the top of the port than the 83 JH head does, so you can rise the port a little higher on the 84+ heads.
I should also say that the term "JH head" is a little bit of a misnomer, the term is commonly understood to be the 1.8L solid lifter head BUT, the 1988 Sciroccos and Cabriolets had JH engines with hydraulic lifter heads, so, there are a few hydraulic lifter heads out there which could be correctly called JH heads, for the purposes of this discussion, I'll assume we're excluding those heads.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

Intake port measurement - 
Stock 84 Solid lifter air shrouded injector head:
1.33" Height by 1.13" Wide. 
EuroSpec head: 1.50" Height by 1.375 Wide.
Exhaust port measurements - 
1.31" Height by 1.0" for the stock head
EuroSpec head: 1.50" Height by 1.25".
( Thanks Peter Tong )
Intake port measurement - 
Stock 84 Solid lifter air shrouded injector head:
31.92mm Height by 27.12mm Wide. 
EuroSpec head: 36mm Height by 33mm Wide.
Exhaust port measurements - 
31.44mm Height by 24mm for the stock head
EuroSpec head: 36mm Height by 30mm
( Thanks G60Jetta2dr )
Yes, I do understand about port size/volume/velocity.
This is what I meant to say.
What is the maximum port size you can go on a solid lifter head without compromising velocity? This would be for a full power application.
Just trying to help promote, no need to be nasty. 
Steve-


----------



## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_it isn't really all about port size. Shape and velocity play a much bigger role. A stock head can be ported out to the same size as a stock eurospec head. The scooter racing head I posted on the previous page has almost identical ports to my stock casting eurospec head. 
Anyone ever flow bench a scooter head?


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Possibly, he did a bunch of different versions though. Mine has stock size valves and a simple 1 or 2 angle sealing cut for the seats. Bigger valves or even a multi angle valve job with back cut would help actual flow a lot. The max flow #'s without valves don't really mean all that much. 

My head has a really nice port job, the valves are deshrouded a bit, the seats are fully blended and the short turn radius was smoothed. The valve guide bump was ground down flush with the port roof before the new valve guides were put in. The combustion chambers were polished and the ports were generally enlarged a bit and perfectly smooth on the inside (exhausts were left a bit rougher).


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

I wonder why the exhaust side wasn't polished.
And isn't the bump not supposed to be removed? Just ground down a little?
Steve-


_Modified by BSD at 6:48 AM 12-17-2009_


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

Rough intake: boundary layer
Polished exhaust: no carbon build-up


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

I reversed the rough and smooth ports in my previous post, my bad. On all the heavily ported 8v heads I have seen the valve guide bulge has been totally removed. the eurospec heads are cast with no bump at all. Race heads usually have the valve guide ground flush with the roof of the port as well. There is theory that "knifing" the front of the bump promotes better flow around the valve stem, but I think that smoothing the port roof is a better way to do it.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Interesting, I heard that removing the bump negatively changed velocity, but never seen proof. If performance heads don't have it, I guess it can't be all that bad right?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_I reversed the rough and smooth ports in my previous post, my bad. 

I was gonna say, wtf? Lol
Steve-


----------



## tdogg74 (Mar 1, 2002)

*FV-QR*

OBDII ABA heads have that bump, or "shroud" on the side of the valve guide.
















Its to direct the air to enter into the center of the combustion chamber. Promotes low end torque and an even flame front. Negatives are that they act as a pinch point at higher rpms and choke the flow of air. OBDI ABA heads do not have this shroud and, naturally, flow better.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: (BSD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BSD* »_Interesting, I heard that removing the bump negatively changed velocity, but never seen proof. If performance heads don't have it, I guess it can't be all that bad right?







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I was gonna say, wtf? Lol
Steve-

who knows what it does, I don't think there is enough flow test data or dyno data currently published for this to be definitively proven. I know that supervee or usf3 heads certainly don't have valve guide bumps and they are probably the most powerful 8v motors every made.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Well, I guess I know what i'm going to do with those bumps on my spare head...








On another note, are their short 7mm valve guides for solid lifter heads? I've seen smaller guides for a "16v" but don't know if they would fit an 8v or not. Kinda off topic, but still related to flow right?








Steve-


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

tt sells tapered 7mm guides for 8v heads I have seen people taper their own on a lathe.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Nice! Thanks Chris. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Steve-


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_tt sells tapered 7mm guides for 8v heads

Yes they do have tem cuz i recently bought them for my head....


----------



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

I've looked at a few different parts listings for valve guides and from that here's what I've gathered; the normal length for an 8v valve guide, both solid lifter and hydraulic (including cross flow heads) is 36.5mm, there are a few odd ball engines like the EN for example which have 42.5mm guides. The standard length for 16v guide (1.8 and 2.0L) is 38.1mm and as near as I can tell, the VR6 uses the same guides as the 16v engine. The O.D. for all of these guides is 12.078mm. The 1.8t engines use guides which have a smaller O.D. and hence aren't relevant to this discussion.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

More good info. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
What about Intake and exhaust valve seats?








Anyone do any mods related to them or etc?








Steve-


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (BSD)*

Somender Singh
Grooves 101 
Introduction to Groove Theory 
http://somender-singh.com/content/view/7/49











_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 10:11 PM 1-1-2010_


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Interesting!
Steve-


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

I agree - that's interesting








but if I'll change shape of those flat areas to semi-sphericall shape - burning fire will goes around all combustion chamber.
Tell me if I am wrong?


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

I thought about that idea as well, because when you increase the blocks bore, it makes the flat spots on the head even larger. But if you make the entire chamber sphericall, would it be too big of an area for combustion too fill? I would imagine ( I could be horribly wrong on all of this ) that if the entire CC was sphericall it would take alot more air and gas to fill the chamber? maybe there isn't enough flow to be capable of that?
Idk.. lol.
Steve-


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

to keep yours CR you cann use flat-top pistons, or make something else








usually the best choice for semi-spherical CC in head is semi-spherical shape of piston's top - smaller radius than in head CC.
also semi-spherical shape is very good choice to increase CC surface area. It makes bigger pressure in CC -> bigger pressure makes more Nm


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Definetly very interesting. Now that I think about it, don't Heron heads have a completely flat surface? If they work, this would work i'd think.








Steve-


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

maybe I'm wrong, but I think VW mk1 1,6 GTI should have pistons (I've never seen them







) with semi-spherical surface?







couse VW mk1 1,6 NOT-GTI have semi-spherical pistons


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Herons came with those because of their flat head surface, unless i'm wrong.








Steve-


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

you are correct. All the diesel heads are the same way since they are around 16:1 compression.
That head with the enlarged cc area doesnt appear to be a vw 8v, i dont believe that there would be any benefit in doing that. The burn grooves are another story but generally speaking the cc chamber is a good shape from the factory. Not to mention you would seriously be dropping the compression of the motor by doing that. 


_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 4:49 PM 1-11-2010_


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

Yeah, but what about boost?








Steve-


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

I think it was some misunderstanding.
If you make CC shape in cylinder-head like this one : 







, 
and piston's TOP shape will be like this : 








you can increase your CR >13:1 . 
But you'll get CC surface area bigger than like flat-top piston+standard CC shape. 
You can try to calculate









_Modified by El_Gato_LT at 2:01 AM 1-12-2010_

_Modified by El_Gato_LT at 3:26 AM 1-12-2010_


_Modified by El_Gato_LT at 3:27 AM 1-12-2010_


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

that really has very little to do with the combustion chamber shape and more with the valve angle. If you want to see properly designed heads look at and of the honda heads. The valves in the 8v head are perfectly flat compared to one another that doesn't promote anything good in terms of performance.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

http://theoldone.com/archive/quench-area.htm
Came across this, and that might explain alot.
Steve-


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

that is a lot of good info, in relation to those points look at the shape of an obd 1 aba piston vs that of an obdII piston. The heads and cc are exactly the same as far as I can tell. 
Obd 1 on the left obd 2 are the rest... dont ask was a temporary setup


----------



## kylealmostvw (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_that is a lot of good info, in relation to those points look at the shape of an obd 1 aba piston vs that of an obdII piston. The heads and cc are exactly the same as far as I can tell. 
Obd 1 on the left obd 2 are the rest... dont ask was a temporary setup









its because the obd1(1993-1995) aba engine came with forged internals while the later models only have cast internals. dont understand why they wouldn't just use forged internals for both


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

that is kind of incorrect
stock pistons in pretty much every car ever that was mass produced are cast, and for a good reason. Obd 1 cranks are forged and thats it in terms of difference between 1 and 2. All vw rods are forged. They stopped forging cranks because it was expensive and the motor only makes 100hp. All the new cranks are forged and the fsi motors have forged main caps as well. 
The pistons are different due to combustion properties. The obd 1 pistons have a shallower "pit" and rounded edges. The round edges probably fight detonation and hot spots in the piston but encourage a less complete burn due to less quench area. The obdII pistons have a much more square edge and pronounced quench pads. The square edge and more pronounced quench pads definitely do a better job than the obd 1 pistons in terms of upping the compression safely while burning the fuel better. Vw changed them for a reason on the later cars even if I am not understanding/explaining it correctly. 


_Modified by chrisbmx68 at 12:20 AM 1-13-2010_


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

I'd have to go ahead and guess that too, smooth edges on the crown help with detonation, but don't give as well of a combustion. 
Steve-


----------



## 4ePikanini (Aug 29, 2007)

how much gains can be had by a really good porting job?


----------



## Kameirocco (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: (fourie_marius)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourie_marius* »_how much gains can be had by a really good porting job?

a bit, but it also needs to get teamed with a cam and exhaust work and/or intake depending on the system (CIS can't do much with 'cuz of the fueling meter flappy thing, digi can do more, MS can do alot more lol)


----------



## Mich (Oct 7, 2009)

Where should i go to get my head ported, Chcago?


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Jarod at SCCH does really nice work. Scooter racing is non existent. I dont know what other shops actively do solid port work and have flow benches.


----------



## 4ePikanini (Aug 29, 2007)

*FV-QR*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kameirocco* »_
a bit, but it also needs to get teamed with a cam and exhaust work and/or intake depending on the system (CIS can't do much with 'cuz of the fueling meter flappy thing, digi can do more, MS can do alot more lol)


how about carb?


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

porting will improve power throughout the range with no supporting mods. The more aggressively you let the head breathe in terms of intake exhaust and cam the bigger the gains will be. carbs are great just depends what you run, side drafts would offer you the most benefit from head work and a larger cam.


----------



## Tom A (Oct 20, 2004)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_porting will improve power throughout the range with no supporting mods. 
Not necessarily. Ports too large can hurt velocity, which will reduce torque.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

generally speaking if you have a good port job it will help all around. yeah if you hog the hell out of them and run everything else stock it wont be the best.


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Ok just finished my home port job and sent my head out to the machine shop for cleaning up, decking and install of the new 42/35 valves....As soon as it gets back ill post up the pics of the results...


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_....As soon as it gets back ill post up the pics of the results...

Please do! I'd like to see how it came out! ( That and so I can compare my work to yours!







)I am still porting the head on my car, as well as polishing the CC and deshrouding the valves. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
Is it getting flow tested? or?
Steve-


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (BSD)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BSD* »_Is it getting flow tested?

Im not sure yet. Ive got a hookup in the machine shop its in but he has to do it after hours when the boss is away so i dont get charged..lol














Im on a budget http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif ...I did however flow test it with my homemade one and got all the ports to flow even..As for the head, on the intake ports i didnt remove much except for on the short turn radius, smoothed out all the imperfections and reshaped the guide bosses. For the exhaust ports however i hogged them out to 27mm(i beleive they were like 23 or 24mm) worked the short turn radius, smoothed it almost to a polish and completely removed the guide boss....Reason for more detail on the exhaust is all the info i researched said that nitrous motors would benefit from this more.


_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 7:22 AM 1-26-2010_


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Nice! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I removed the guide bosses of my intake and exhaust ports too.. was quite the PITA.








Hopefully i'll be done with mine soon, then off to flowbench!








Steve-


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (BSD)*

What would be great if you have your intake tested on the head too. Don't seen any flow tests with head, then head and intake on the net for our VW engines.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

I have a stock manifold, but not a fully ported one.
I can port a spare one and have it flow benched with my head on a stock, and then ported one.. Hopefully.








Steve-


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: (BSD)*

This is one of the best posts that I have ever seen on Vortex http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (ny_fam)*

Hey ny_fam(havent seen u in the threads lately), Ive been working on the lower half of my intake..Not sure yet if im going to cut the top open to do the rest yet...I give u a http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif for ur work cuz i think the intake is way harder than the head....Damn its bumpy in there.


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: (NAVI51)*

Will this be something that I can use to get a better porting and polishing job on the head instead of just using the dremel with the bits???








http://cgi.ebay.com/42-ROTARY-...f0863
Also, something like this stone set be good for the job?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-HUGE-2...c3e57
I'm very unexperinced on this type of job and I wanna be able to choose the right tools. Thanks http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

you really need a die grinder that take 1/4" shank carbide burrs to do heavy porting correctly. A dremel isnt really adequate and grinding sotnes gum up with aluminum. Single and double cut carbide burrs are what you want along with sanding drums/cartridge rolls


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Cool I actually have a hand die grinder and the carbride Tg burrs are cheaper http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
How about the flexible extension tool?
Thanks for the helpful response


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

the flex head is nice to have its easier to maneuver certainly wont hurt!


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Thanks Chris. I appreciate your help


----------



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

You want to use a die grinder rather than a dremel. A dremel is okay for finishing and minor touch ups but completely inadequate for the bulk of the work. I like an air powered die grinder, they're cheap, compact, lightweight and easy to use but if you don't have an air compressor, a electric die grinder, like this one from harborfreight also works well.
  
Stones are next to useless on aluminum, the bulk of your material will be removed using a carbide burr, my favourite one looks like this, 1/2" diameter, parallel sides with a ball nose and the shank is about 5" long.








These things are expensive, $50.00 for a good long shank burr but they're money well spent, they work GREAT, and if you're careful with them, they'll last for many heads.
For abrasives, use cartridge roll like these in a couple different sizes and shapes.








Go HERE to see everything you'll need to port cylinder heads.


----------



## NAVI51 (Aug 18, 2008)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

Thanks ABA Rocco. I appreciate the help and I will be looking to get a set of those ovals. I have a hand pneumatic die grinder that I got at harbor freight for $10 a couple of years ago, so basically all I would need are the burrs and the polishing tools. What do you recomend for polishing?
Thanks for the helpful info and link http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (NAVI51)*

I'm porting my head with a dremel and extension. Drum rolls are excellent for smoothing anything out and removing light material, stones are useless. I have 3 carbide burrs I got for my dremel, and I think for the first time I am porting a head is looks pretty **** good, but I could be mistaken. The burrs work great, especially with a variable speed unit... I can reach all the way into my runners with just my 42" extension and bits. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
If I were to do it over, i'd get an electric die grinder or something, but for $38 for 2 dremels, a stand, extensions, and 250 pieces you cannot lose.
Steve-


----------



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (NAVI51)*

For finishing the ports, on the intake ports, 80 grit cartridge rolls, on the exhaust ports, I follow up the cartridge roll with a flapper wheel, I've got two sizes, a large one for the straighter parts of the port and a small one for the bowl and around the valve guide boss. For the flapper wheel, I like to use a dremel fitted with flex shaft.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABA Scirocco* »_For finishing the ports, on the intake ports, 80 grit cartridge rolls, on the exhaust ports, I follow up the cartridge roll with a flapper wheel, I've got two sizes, a large one for the straighter parts of the port and a small one for the bowl and around the valve guide boss. For the flapper wheel, I like to use a dremel fitted with flex shaft.

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I love those 80 grit cartridge rolls.
Steve-


----------



## Scorp67 (Apr 30, 2009)

Everytime I read stuff about head porting I ask myself why I am not doing this already
I think this will be a project for my winter vacation if I cant get the $$$ for the swop i wanna do
Aside: Die grinder + Me + Steel = Hospital 
Be careful, even with safety glasses I managed to get metal bad enough in my eye I had to go to the emergency room
I may just be a noob though


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (Scorp67)*

I got a piece of aluminum in my eye about 2 months ago, my g/f had to scrape it off my eye with her fingernail because it was stuck.. lol.
I can be an idiot sometimes.








Steve-


----------



## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

*Re: (BSD)*

As a few people have mentioned the airflow bias that is typical of 8v heads, I wanted to post up this cool picture I took a while back.
This is an 8v counterflow intake port. Notice the buildup of carbon behind the valve guide boss. It's pretty easy to see that there is airflow bias around the valve guide. I presume that since the air has a very high velocity as it flows around the tall side of the port, the droplets of gas "clean" the port in that spot. 
If my presumption is correct, you can see a few other very cool signs. For example, there's a dark ring of carbon in the throat, right before the valve seat itself. I would think this is caused by the edge that is created where the seat meets the port throat. 
I think it's pretty neat, and a great visual to the airflow bias.










_Modified by Jettaboy1884 at 1:47 PM 2-10-2010_


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (Jettaboy1884)*

This is one of my intake ports, all done via dremel.
Opinions please!








Steve-
























Steve-


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

looks decent to me!
did you smooth the short turn radius near the edge of the valve seat I cant tell from the pics, but that helps a lot and is usually pretty rough stock


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

I sure did! Thanks btw chris! It does take a long time with the dremel, but I am trying to be very careful and really take my time.








Steve-


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

Hello guys








I have made some home-made air-flow simulation thru 8V cylinder head. Head was ported, intake ports maded round 34mm of diameter. Short turn radius cuted.
I'm waiting for your oppinion








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-ITUgpmwME


_Modified by El_Gato_LT at 12:25 PM 2-14-2010_


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (El_Gato_LT)*

Interesting - try a thread in that video setup, you may find the port side interesting.


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

ny_fam,
sorry?


----------



## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

*Re: (El_Gato_LT)*

Commenting on your video - Your video shows the chamber side of the head, with the cloth flapping in the wind. If you use a fine thread it will better represent where the high velocity is in the port. 
Also take a look from the intake side, try moving the thread around to see again what part of the port the higher velocities are.
What I've found is that at > .3 lift the majority of the air exits the valve toward the center of the cylinder. Knowing where the air is flowing will help you better port the head.


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

I agree with you: Knowing where the air is flowing will help you better port the head.
Ok, next time I'll try to show view from intake port. But I don't know how to make enough light to view port








But now I know how to make a swirl of air-flow in to combustion chamber.


----------



## BSD (Jul 8, 2008)

*Re: (El_Gato_LT)*

Looks like you got a good swirl going on there, kinda hard to tell exactly without using a fine string though. None the less. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








Steve-


----------



## mudanddust (Oct 24, 2007)

*Re: (BSD)*

good info here


----------



## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_Ok just finished my home port job and sent my head out to the machine shop for cleaning up, decking and install of the new 42/35 valves....As soon as it gets back ill post up the pics of the results...

In for some pictures and results. Thinking about buying the TT big valve kit. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

i just got the tt kit its nice, food for thought though. If you want really big cams you might want longer tipped or single groove valves and keepers. The stock length valves and triple groove keepers limit your shim and lifter choices.


----------



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisbmx68* »_i just got the tt kit its nice, food for thought though. If you want really big cams you might want longer tipped or single groove valves and keepers. The stock length valves and triple groove keepers limit your shim and lifter choices. 

True enough, with big cams, you're looking at reduced base circles, longer valves, shim under bucket etc. then sourcing the valves and related components becomes a bit of an issue.


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

Yeah I am realizing those issues now. I got shim under lifters but I am afraid to shim them up like 6mm or so with such a small tip left above the valve. I am going to try to run a 1.34 base circle web cam. I might have to get the kind of lifters where you machine the pad down


----------



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Custom valves are of course always an option, but they're expensive especially when you're just getting 2 sets of 4. For example, I enquired about getting some custom Supertech valves, same specs as the normal valves they sell but with extra long stems and NO retainer grooves, their minimum order was 24 valves and priced about $5 more then their stock valves. So, the last head we did, we used some racing valves designed for an air cooled engine, they're much longer than stock water cooled valves, we cut them to length and machined in new retainer grooves, that that allowed us to get exact the length we needed to use a thin pad follower and 0.060" lash cap with a reduced base circle web cam, we also had the intake valves undercut for better air flow.



_Modified by ABA Scirocco at 6:30 AM 2-20-2010_


----------



## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Sorry guys, I have a question for you:
when you making bigger valve seats for bigger valves (f.e. 42mm on intake) - what inside diameter you getting in that bigger seat?
and what seat wall thikness is safe enough ? 
Thanks for your answers










_Modified by El_Gato_LT at 1:24 PM 2-20-2010_


----------



## ABA Scirocco (May 30, 2001)

*Re: (El_Gato_LT)*

For a competition engine, you want the contact area to be almost all the way out to the edge of the valve and you want it to be about 1mm wide maybe a little more and below the contact area, cut the seat back at at 60-70°


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## norrback (Feb 20, 2010)

*bump question*










Can this area (BUMP) be ported to look like the other side of he guide on a AKL head? Or isn't there enough wall thickness?
Could someone with a similar broken head bore some holes to check the wall thickness there?
The reason I want it away is to get a more similar velocity profile on both sides, and at the same time I can move the MCSA point to a straight part of the port by filling the floor with epoxy to get the right velocity at the engines piston cfm demand.
Any power numbers on these heads on a 2 liitre engine, ofcoures converted to mech.lifters and a cam with much better profile than any hyd.cams. could do?
Any flownumbers? 
/Andre'


_Modified by norrback at 2:04 AM 2-21-2010_


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## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*

I know everything regarding sealing surface for valves







Thanks








but I would like to know what inside diameter you getting on these bigger valves seats?


----------



## chrisbmx68 (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: (ABA Scirocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ABA Scirocco* »_that that allowed us to get exact the length we needed to use a thin pad follower and 0.060" lash cap with a reduced base circle web cam

I am definitely going to end up having to ditch the lifters I bought and get some with a long stem







if anyone wants stock diam shim under lifters cheap lmk I have a brand new set. You just wont be able to pull them off with a reduced base circle cam with stock length valves.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (chrisbmx68)*

Easter.bump.... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Best thread I've seen on the 'tex in a while. 
About to start this project myself, on a big valve hydro head, but have yet to decide which. One thing caught my attention though:
I want GTI-ish compression. The hydro GTI heads appear similar to the Digifant era Fox heads. The bore and stroke of the stock GTI/GLI setup is the same as my Fox, yet the compression is 10.0:1 versus my 9.0:1. How do they acheive the higher compression? Is the stock head shaved/decked or is it the pistons?








resource:
http://www.vintagewatercooleds...s.htm
Based on this thread I'm definitely going to use 7mm stems and taper the valve guides. Is there a limit to how far you can go with this? I assumed the bulky valve guides help move heat away from the valve head, and therefore removing too much metal could be detrimental.


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JGWarner)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JGWarner* »_Best thread I've seen on the 'tex in a while. 
How do they acheive the higher compression? Is the stock head shaved/decked or is it the pistons?










Yes it has different pistons...

_Quote, originally posted by *JGWarner* »_
Based on this thread I'm definitely going to use 7mm stems and taper the valve guides. Is there a limit to how far you can go with this? I assumed the bulky valve guides help move heat away from the valve head, and therefore removing too much metal could be detrimental.

This all depends on wut ur gona use this head for. For D/D i would be conservative, dont want to remove to much as the hydro heads dont hav to much meat in that area for support....For track use only shave away...







...On my current head i removed the guide boss and taperd the valve guides(still might remove it completely) in the exhaust ports. For the intake i reshaped the bosses and tapered the valve guides aswell.... 

_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 8:35 AM 4-4-2010_


_Modified by TheMajic86GTI at 8:37 AM 4-4-2010_


----------



## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Cool. Any idea what pistons the GTI uses? flat crowns I assume? That makes alot of sense.
That's purely out of curiosity, since I don't intend to swap the pistons. I guess I'll deck the head. Once this block gives me issues I'll swap in a 2.0 anyway, and re-consider pistons then. The shaved head should work nicely with that block too, seeing as most 2.0s are lower compression anyway.
Polishing the exhasut ports makes sense. But I see alot said about leaving the intake ports slightly rough, to encourage mixture/discourage dropoff especially in CIS cars- but how rough? From what i recall of the last head I looked at, the stock casting looks kinda gnarly in places- I assume if I was to go modestly here, there's a few sweet spots that should be touched up, and the manifold ports matched. Would it be a waste of time to not go all the way, or will I still see some gains with modest porting? Hoping those 7mm stems will help alot too.
This has got me excited. Haven't fired up the die grinder in ages.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (JGWarner)*

BUMP..Its sunday so why not.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## secondgen (Jan 9, 2004)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*

Pages 1,2 and 4 have relevant porting info. I should have dyno numbers shortly. Makes amazing torque still, and pulls HARD all the way to the red line (7700RPM). We'll find out if it's still making power that high. Old motor with the (hack) port job a local shop did power fell completely off at 4800.








I should note, this is not the first head I've ported. I have easily 45+ hours into this head, and 10-15 into the manifold. I know that by knocking the guide "bosses" out, I may loose some longevity, but I'm not worried about it. Velocity may be down too, but with the throttles slightly cracked, it pulls hard, if not harder than WOT (until WOT @ 4000+RPM).
Intake, through manifold:








Exhaust port:


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

*Re: (secondgen)*

Nice pictures...thanx for the addition... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: (TheMajic86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *TheMajic86GTI* »_Nice pictures...thanx for the addition... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

X2
Thanks for sharing. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

saturday bump


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## Glegor (Mar 31, 2008)

GTI has dished pistons. every VW ive taken apart besides the 9a has dished pistons. i doubt you are going to make up a whole point of compression by decking the head. and what makes you think an ABA is lower compression? they are still 10:1 with a crossflow (stock ABA) head, little more with a counterflow (stock 1.8) head bolted on from the smaller combustion chamber. why would you consider different pistons with a 2.0? its gonna be up over 10:1 compression anyway if your installing it in a fox, because you would have to use the counterflow head. and as for porting the head, i would try and work more on the intake ports. make the engine be able to suck in air as easy as possible. sure there are gains to be had from porting the exhaust, but not as big of gains as porting the intake side. if you leave it the finish that you get from dremel mini sanding drums, thats about right. i use a dremel and mini sanding drums for most of my head work. and a speed file for really taking the metal away. you want it smoother than the stock casting, but not a mirrored finish. and you will probably see more gains from some modest porting rather than going balls out the first time. there is such thing as too big. you can make the ports big enough that it will actually slow down the intake charge velocity. thats where you get drop off. thats not a good thing. and the difference between 7mm and 8mm valves on an un modified engine will most likely be un noticeable. 6 cfm more flow with 7mm valve stems. they are definitely not a night and day difference, unless you have a heavily modified race engine or something along those lines..


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *RallyeRichard* »_Do you recognize the hand of a master, many, many hours and a flowbench??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So would there be any damaging effect done to the guides in doing this type of porting to the head? Also whats the best way to remove the old guides and install the new ones?


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## MKIGTITDI (Aug 25, 2007)

*swirl/charge effect*

I got this off of an article on popular hot roddings web site and i didnt see alot on this through the thread I might have missed it but im getting ready to port my own head and was wondering about this topic as i wanted to focus alot on the flow of the air as well as volume and wanted to kind of shape the port to allow for more of a charge effect to the air.
heres the web site and the article as well as what im touching on here.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/en...re/0412em_porting_cylinder_heads/porting.html


Five Golden Rules for Successful Porting
1:Give the air room to move where it wants to go, not where you think it should go.

2:Identify the points of flow restriction and fix them (as far as they can be fixed) in the order of severity.

*3: Develop charge motion (swirl) as this increases burn rate and reduces octane requirement.*

4:High-speed ports with minimal redundant volume ram cylinders better and result in better mixture quality, higher torque and a wider power band.

5:Go for as much compression as the situation will allow.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

BUMP...Just because i wanted too!!!! :beer::thumbup:


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

Now that the head is ported and you've got all the air you can get through the port, what about the cam?
The hydro head has a 35mm lifter, Whats the max size cam I can run with out getting larger buckets?

Can I run .500" if the lobes are chamfered & the lifter bores clearanced ? Then whats the minimum duration I can run with a 110 or 112 LSA?

I understand custom springs will be needed - I think .460" is the most lift for the TT/supertech(non-custom) springs for these engines.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Bump, just cuz its been awhile....


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Came across this pic in a honda forum and looked very interesting.... 









Said something about the golf ball affect and eliminating drag anybody got any info on this or is this just garbage????


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Progress on my hydro head.....


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## watercoolered (Jul 13, 2010)

*What I've done with my 3a conversion 1.8 RV head.*

Sorry but I have no photo's ,basically I've match ported the toilet bowl exhaust manifold and head using the Audi 3A gasket which is around 15% larger. 
The inlet side head ports have been match ported to the inlet manifold,the only real mod besides match porting has been to thin out the guide bosses towards a taper rather than a lump to premote flow,my guides have no wear so they have stayed in place,more can be done without them. 
Under the seat bowl there are sharp machined edges (from the factory )which have been smoothed off and flowed back towards the port. 
All the seats has an edge of alloy out past the seat inside diameter,this was cut back to the seat. 
I've ported alot of heads and have the following idea's; 
Don't reduce the guide boss too much as the guide has little support without it,a tapered guide is prefered. 
Clean up the castings/ports without removing to much material 
Don't polish ports ,looks nice but not required 
Remove sharp edges and casting flashes 
Don't raduis too much material under the thin side of the casting as the seats will become loose . 

I don't have a flow bench but common sense applys,any sharp edges or casting faults can be removed and smoothed out,use your fingers as a guide ,you can only make a bit more power not lose it if you don't get carried away. 
My tools are cheap die grinder with round HSS olive cutter for seat area and HSS straight cutter and flapper wheel for ports,a good valve job will finish things off.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Bump for all the recent porting threads ....:thumbup:


----------



## Svedka (Jul 4, 2008)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> Bump for all the recent porting threads ....:thumbup:


Good info :beer:


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## VWJowner (Jan 20, 2010)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> This is from Gus Mahons site...Flow bench using a leaf blower....::
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
would a boost gauge work for this DIY? im porting a head and have a gauge laying around.


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## VWJowner (Jan 20, 2010)

^^Bump for question


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## ny_fam (Apr 3, 2004)

I don't think it will work. The flow tests are all done below 1 PSI on a pro flow bench. 
The home made unit with a shop vac or other source can't push enough air to measure even 1 PSI when testing a part. The tube of colored water works well because it is easy to get readings for flows below 1 PSI (27.7" of H2o)


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## sump scraper (Apr 13, 2008)




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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

ny_fam said:


> The tube of colored water works well because it is easy to get readings for flows below 1 PSI (27.7" of H2o)


 :thumbup: I use the koolaid method works very well!!


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Sump Scraper where did u get those copper exhaust gaskets??? and by the way head looks good!!


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## VWJowner (Jan 20, 2010)

so i tried the flow test with the water tube. and my stock ports had a change in water level of 1.25" and when ported the water level change was 2". i think thats pretty good what do you guys think?

( i had the water in the tube set at 5in when the blower was off, when turned on the water level dropped the amount i said above.) 

so do you think it could be ported more or would it be just a waist of time to make it a little bigger.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

VWJowner said:


> so do you think it could be ported more or would it be just a waist of time to make it a little bigger.



THATS NOT A GOOD QUESTION TO BE ASKING IF U HAVE READ THIS WHOLE POST AND ITS ARTICLES....Bigger is not always better in this case!!!! If you never ported a head before i would just clean up all the casting marks, even out all the ports and do a match port to the gaskets.. Do more research and get a spare head or 2 to play with!!


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## blackmkIII (May 18, 2004)

heres the proto "street ported" head i did for abfjeff like 3 years ago.....

(this looks kind of crappy compared to what it would look like now i think)






































mike


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey Majic86, is that some groove theory I see in your head? Curious to know if it works. From what I hear it can't hurt much.

I do NOT want to start an argument here, however. Some people are touchy on the subject.

I'm finally going to take some photos of my head and post em up. It's been a busy year!


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## VWJowner (Jan 20, 2010)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> THATS NOT A GOOD QUESTION TO BE ASKING IF U HAVE READ THIS WHOLE POST AND ITS ARTICLES....Bigger is not always better in this case!!!! If you never ported a head before i would just clean up all the casting marks, even out all the ports and do a match port to the gaskets.. Do more research and get a spare head or 2 to play with!!


no i have not ported a bead before, yes i have a spare head i picked up, i know that bigger ports are not always better. and i am pretty damn handy with any tool in my hand.

and when i did the flow test i was measuring vacuum i did it again using back pressure and i got better results.
.
.
.
.
anyway when doing this flow test is there only supposed to be a minor change in water level? because from the stock port i was reading a change of 4.5" of water, when i tested the ported ones i only saw a change of 4"( and this is for the intake)

here are some pics. i havent really smoothed out the ports yet thats just from a 80grit drum. 
Stock vs ported








ported








stock


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## sump scraper (Apr 13, 2008)

TheMajic86GTI said:


> Sump Scraper where did u get those copper exhaust gaskets??? and by the way head looks good!!


my local vw parts dealer


here is more pics:thumbup:


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

2011 almost here!! woohoo


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## rallydiesel (May 10, 2006)

Where can I get bigger seats?


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

I got mine from Techtonics but im sure theres other company's for cheaper.


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## groundupjetta (Feb 1, 2010)

Nice thread I'll be porting my head soon and will post progress


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

Is it just my eyes, or are the intake port walls breached on the two closest cylinders? 



sump scraper said:


>


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## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

Jettaboy1884 said:


> Is it just my eyes, or are the intake port walls breached on the two closest cylinders?


 Hi, 

what about those breaks in to the head-screws holes? I'm afraid that it will sucks the oil in to the intake ports. 
Am I wrong? 

I have made a lot of tests - so, I can tell you that - if you're making more than 34mm in width of port - you will always got break in to screw hole.


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Just a bump cuz i havent been on here for sum months now!!! Happy Hump Day!!! :wave:


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## Mowgli87 (Jan 13, 2006)

Bumping a great thread. I'm in the process of a mild port and polish on an '86 RD head from my GTI. I'm just doing a gasket match on the intake and a general cleaning/polishing for the exhaust. 

This is my first attempt at any kind of porting work. I do have access to a flow bench at school, so I'm at least keeping track of things. I didn't get an stock dyno numbers, but I have been keeping up with flow as I progress. I'll post dyno results when I finish everything in a few weeks.

So far I've only done the port entry for intake ports 1 and 2. Tomorrow I'll start working on the short radius, throat, and bowl areas (similar to the VW article from 1980). I doubt I'll do anything to the valves themselves for current budget reasons (at least past the point of re-seating them with grinding compound). I'm still learning a lot just from reading so if you guys have any useful pointers, I'd love to hear them.

BTW, does anyone have flow data from this head? It looks fantastic, but from my very limited knowledge so far that doesn't exactly correlate to good flow.


----------



## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Mowgli87 said:


> Bumping a great thread. I doubt I'll do anything to the valves themselves for current budget reasons (at least past the point of re-seating them with grinding compound). I'm still learning a lot just from reading so if you guys have any useful pointers, I'd love to hear them.


Thanks. Just a tip for better flow on a budget. If you havent finished this yet you might want to drop in some stock MK3 7mm valves instead of using the MK2 thicker 8mm valves, all you have to do is replace the valve guides. You can probably pick up the whole valvetrain for next to nothing in a junkyard.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

Except the ABA valves are .5mm smaller than the 1.8 8v stuff...


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

B4S said:


> Except the ABA valves are .5mm smaller than the 1.8 8v stuff...


Yep, I've noticed this as well.

So, two questions:

Can a competent machine shop regrind the stock (counterflow head) valve seat to match the size of the ABA valves (and is this absolutely necessary to run the ABA valves)?

If Yes: Is the 0.5mm reduction in diameter enough to negate the flow improvement seen by the 1mm thinner stems? 

General opinion is that the thinner valves flow better, but I can't say I've ever seen hard evidence that an ABA valve swap provides a gain, so it's worth asking for the record.


----------



## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

From what I've read, and NY_FAM has apparently done this swap, it's more work than necessary. The seats can be recut, but it puts the valve too far down into the seat...which makes for excess shrouding.


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## Jettaboy1884 (Jan 20, 2004)

That makes sense...

Does the Techtonics 7mm upgrade kit use the correct size valves to fit the seats? (I'd hope so).

Or, that's just another excuse to go with a +1mm oversize kit...

Awesome thread BTW. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Mowgli87 (Jan 13, 2006)

Thanks for the tip Majic. I hadn't planned to do valves, and I've already finished the intake ports. Results for the intake gave me close to 10% flow increase across the entire valve lift range. 

One thing is certain: I GREATLY underestimated the depth of this project! It's incredibly tedious, but lots of fun. It's pretty cool to take a flow measurement, then do some work and see that measurement go up a couple CFM.

I still have to finish the exhaust ports, then the head will go back in the car. I can't wait to feel the difference!!


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## Mowgli87 (Jan 13, 2006)

Here's my project thread from a local car forum. I figured you guys might like to see it. 

Project thread

P.S. A correction from the last post: I gained an average of 12% flow across the intake valve lift range. So far the exhaust has seen average gains of about 13%. The upper section (above .250) has gained up to 25%!


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## Mowgli87 (Jan 13, 2006)

I finally finished the porting process of my head rebuild. I gained an average of 12% on intake and 18% on the exhaust. I'll be updating my build thread soo.


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## Mowgli87 (Jan 13, 2006)

Damn double post from my phone...


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## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

Mowgli87 said:


> I finally finished the porting process of my head rebuild. I gained an average of 12% on intake and 18% on the exhaust. I'll be updating my build thread soo.


 Hello :wave: 

I have made a lot of test for 8V heads. I gained an average 10% flow increase with very simple job WITHOUT porting and polishing  I have made 3 different angles on valve seat and valve cap: 30deg for the begin of seat/valve, 45deg for sealing, 60deg for the end of seat. and these 10% means some power gain


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## Mowgli87 (Jan 13, 2006)

Awesome! In hindsight, I probably spent way too much time in the wrong places. Next time I'll start at the valve and work my way into the port. 

Quick question for you guys: what are you doing for fuel management when you port your heads? Specifically CIS-e guys. I've been burning a LOT of fuel, and I was wondering if it might have something to do with my CIS system maxing out the designed air/fuel metering system.


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## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

Hello again :wave:

let's make simple calculation regarding restriction areas on intake ports on 8V GTI head:

restriction area on intake port:
Let's say that we have oval intake port 32x34, so the area is *870*mm2 (sq.mm)

Restriction area in the hole of seat excluding valve stem: 
hole of seat D34mm excluding D8mm of valve stem: 907mm2 - 50mm2 = *857*mm2

Restriction area on valve sealing place - seat hole @ valve lift:
Let's say that we have D34 seat hole and we're using camshaft with 7mm average lift: *750*mm2

So, these values means that most biggest restriction is on valve seat hole and valve lift.
easiest way get some power gain - to put camshaft with bigger lift (or duration) and reshape valve seats.


Regards,
El_Gato


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## hazelscum666 (Jul 25, 2011)

Great info, thanks for doing all the footwork!


+++Rep


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## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

hazelscum666 said:


> Great info, thanks for doing all the footwork!
> 
> 
> +++Rep


Welcome!
I'm glad to help to somebody 

I have made one head for my good friend. 
It's Europian 2,0 85kW 8V 2E engine - tall block with strange shape of intake ports :screwy:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...37402347.31938.126718174076960&type=1&theater
after P&P jobs the head was collected with [email protected] camshaft and custom solid lifters made from hydro-lifters.

On the Dyno we found 146HP and 160Nm.
Engine is running with standart Digifant injection system.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...&type=1&theater&pid=216789&id=126718174076960


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## LT1M21Stingray (Sep 14, 2006)

El_Gato_LT said:


> Welcome!
> I'm glad to help to somebody
> 
> I have made one head for my good friend.
> ...



The Audi 3A / VW 2E heads are the same. The injectors are in the intake manifold.


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## El_Gato_LT (Nov 25, 2009)

Mtl-Marc said:


> The Audi 3A / VW 2E heads are the same. The injectors are in the intake manifold.


Thanks  I know that. Also Audi AAD and ABK engines 

but still this head is nightmare for porting. Without intake manifold it flow amazing  but we know that engine can't run without intake manifold


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

Its been awhile since ive been on here so bump just to move it back to the top!! :wave:


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## fthaimike (Jun 29, 2009)

Worth a read from here in the UK

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146976

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241913

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215166


----------



## TheBurninator (Jan 7, 2009)

fthaimike said:


> Worth a read from here in the UK
> 
> http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146976
> 
> ...


Those threads are awesome! :thumbup:


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

NIce addition..just took a glance but seems like alot of good info


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## TheMajic86GTI (Aug 9, 2009)

So this is the current progress on my MexiPort head..Sad i know.. No time, and ran out of funds & motivation...  Plus my MK3 D/D is driving me crazy and taking any extra funds i have! Every time i fix something broken, something else breaks or new codes pop up..


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## Guidofester (Aug 28, 2003)

*1.8 8V Head Porting*

This should definitely be a sticky.


----------



## Guidofester (Aug 28, 2003)

*1.8 8V Head Porting*



TheBurninator said:


> Those threads are awesome! :thumbup:


Originally Posted by fthaimike View Post
Worth a read from here in the UK

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=146976

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=241913

http://www.clubgti.com/forum/showthread.php?t=215166

These threads are awesome and I'd definitely recommend them to the sticky department.

Guido


----------



## carrizog60 (Sep 13, 2003)

back from the deads... 

any more info or results on that groove theory? 



> but still this head is nightmare for porting. Without intake manifold it flow amazing


 why is a nightmare? 
can you remember what was the size of the inlet valves?i have one and i measured 39mm... 
people says that "recent" 8v all are 40mm inlet.


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## carrizog60 (Sep 13, 2003)

bump


----------



## wantacad (Apr 4, 2003)

:thumbup:


----------



## vw8vGolf (Nov 15, 2009)

Views: 84,799..... its gotta be some kinda record!:thumbup:


----------



## nbvwfan (Aug 15, 2007)

Bump because I just read through this whole thread and found a lot of useful information.
Any others with updates?
:thumbup:


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## JonJonJetta (Jun 13, 2014)

You should see some of the off topic view in the Australia sub-forum.


----------



## nbvwfan (Aug 15, 2007)

JonJonJetta said:


> You should see some of the off topic view in the Australia sub-forum.


Thanks
:thumbup:


----------



## jamesw16 (May 10, 2015)

*sooooo true!*



chrisbmx68 said:


> that is kind of incorrect
> stock pistons in pretty much every car ever that was mass produced are cast, and for a good reason. Obd 1 cranks are forged and thats it etween 1 and 2. All vw rods are forged. They stopped forging cranks because it was expensive and the motor only makes 100hp. All the new cranks are forged and the fsi motors have forged main caps as well.
> The pistons are different due to combustion properties. The obd 1 pistons have a shallower "pit" and rounded edges. The round edges probably fight detonation and hot spots in the piston but encourage a less complete burn due to less quench area. The obdII pistons have a much more square edge and pronounced quench pads. The square edge and more pronounced quench pads definitely do a better job than the obd 1 pistons in terms of upping the compression safely while burning the fuel better. Vw changed them for a reason on the later cars even if I am not understanding/explaining it correctly.
> 
> ...


Thats all tooooo true, my neighbors daughters bf has a 01 mk4, i have a 95 mk3 and our motors all stock with silencer and muffler removed and i thought ours would sound the same (kinda do) but at idle his car is louder. I think his intake has a lot to do with that since the vaccum is slightly different i believe but the difference in sound is when we load up the pedal and downshifts. I can tell i dont burn my gas in the cc as well cuz man does mine POP compared to his... ppl think im turbod with a small sti turbo and want to race because of it. I tap the gas barely to pop. He barely can when he downshift even due to the head design.... little things go further. And to those bitching about low end..... (its ghetto but made my jetta feel more open) i removed the muffler and that stupid hug box (directly clamped in) thats hooked up after the cat and intermediate pipe and got sooooo much better mid range for the car! Top end blows ass still but everyone seems to just wanna floor past me thinking im racing now though...... but man once im going ill carry past 90mph with out feeling like im killing it.... not recomended if you have emissions or hate noisy cars or pissing off neighbors.... im just side piping so figured why not and i was happy. Now my car gets same mileage as my 1.8l mirage though :/


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