# Drag raced my APR A3 2.0 and my APR S3 (S3 destroyes it)



## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

*Drag raced my APR A3 2.0 and my APR S3 (S3 destroyss the A3)*

Audi and VW enthusiast, I have a history to share. I took my APR tuned (Stage I 91oct map) 15' Audi A3 2.0T to the drag strip last night. I honestly think that the car was going to do better at the dragstrip but I now know exactly what it went wrong (I will elaborate). The track had a scale so I took the car and weighted it, it weighted* 3,336lbs (without the driver)* with 4 LED of gas and a 35lbs Recaro baby seat in the back. The car only has a APR stage I on a 91oct high output map, on paper this is "305hp" and "371lb-tq" as per APR website. Also, the dragstrip is located at 3100ft elevation(Tucson dragway, Tucson, AZ).

Well, the stock factory launch control sucks a$s. The 3000rpm launch control is extremely weak and it really doesn't allow the car to take off with full power, this negatively hinders the *60's times which were consistent 2.1 and 2.2 sec (terrible for a AWD car)* , *my S3 would do 1.8 sec *but I will explain that a little bit later. 

With such poor 60's times I couldn't expect good ETs and ultimately my goal of running high 12's. *I did 12 passes and the car ran all night at 13.4 and 13.5 sec with traps of 102mph*. *I only ran a 13.3 sec once.* I trapped 103MPH a few times after I removed about 80lbs of weight (spare tire, floor mats, floor jack/tools, recaro baby seat), as a matter of fact, I weighted the car after removing the stuff and it weighted *3,248lbs ( without the driver)* with 3 LED of fuel now.

How does the A3 stacks up against the S3? well, in simple words, the S3 destroys the A3 with equal tunes. If there was any doubts for those of you undecided between the Audi A3 and the S3 , well, I have them both, I tuned them both and I drag raced them both. The S3 simply sweeps the A3 away.

My S3 ran a consistent [email protected] vs the [email protected] of the Audi A3. The built launch control on the Audi S3 is better suited for launching, at 4000 rpms the S3 spins all 4 tires and manages consistent 1.8 sec 60' while the A3 only manages a 2.1 sec. These 3 tenth of a second on the 60' equals to 5-6 tenths on your final ET.

7mph trap speeds on the top end is big folks! that is "walking away" from a car however the A3 is not slow. I firmly believe that the Audi A3 2.0 with a DSG software could manage a high 12 sec pass.

Anyways, what I have learned today is:

1) The S3 engine has a stronger top end despite the 305hp/371lb-tq(A3 2.0) vs 335hp/363lb-tq(S3) small difference on paper
2) Launch control on the Audi A3 is very weak (3000rpms), there is a torque management that wouldn't allow you to launch aggressively

For those of you that said or assumed that an A3 tune is as quick as a S3 stock, I would say, it is possible but if you do a tune on the S3 then the S3 destroys the A3 (I proven it by taking both cars to the dragstrip). The A3 tuned is a heck of an alternative if you don't want to spend a lot of money but still have a fast car.

*Here is a post that I made a couple of weeks ago when I drag raced my S3*:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ragstrip-and-ran-well&p=91898810#post91898810


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## TnTNYC (Aug 1, 2012)

Nice post and very informative, thanks for taking the time to write it. Did you use a 91 map for the S3 tune as well?

I wonder if, given the concerns about the launch on the A3, would a TCU tune bring the difference closer? 

TnTNYC

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

TnTNYC said:


> Nice post and very informative, thanks for taking the time to write it. Did you use a 91 map for the S3 tune as well?
> 
> I wonder if, given the concerns about the launch on the A3, would a TCU tune bring the difference closer?
> 
> ...



^^ Thanks! Yes, same tune on both cars (91oct). Same shop did the tune. APR offers two maps for 91oct for the A3, I have high output map which is 305hp/371lbtq. I think that the S3 engine with its unique hardware is just stronger(bigger intercooler, better heads, bigger turbo, etc).

A DSG tune (TCU) would made a big difference on the Audi A3. It would close the gap for sure, maybe so much on the top end(trap speeds) but it would be much closer on pure acceleration and maybe roll acceleration as well. I might try the APR DSG tune and try it at the track on the next test and tune event. Stay tuned!


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> For those of you that said or assumed that an A3 tune is as quick as a S3 stock, I would say, it is possible but if you do a tune on the S3 then the S3 destroyes the A3 (I proven it by taking both cars to the dragstrip).



Thanks for the information. However, I don't think anyone would question that an equally tuned S3 would beat an A3, just like how a stock S3 will beat a stock A3.

It'd be very nice if one could do a comparison between a tuned A3 vs. stock S3. That's the usual path for people who want to save some money, and not necessarily have the quickest car.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

^^I totally agree with you. There are people that prefer to save the money and use it for something else so an Audi A3 with a tune provides an interesting alternative.


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## Diztek (May 27, 2004)

When I see *heavily* modded a3s, I wonder why they just didn't get a an s3.


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## selp (Sep 17, 2015)

Have you thought of doing a DSG tune? 
That will help you raise the launch control and help you bring those 60' times down.

My stock Audi S3 at the same elevation (Tucson, Az), did 13.3 at 102mph.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

^^ SELP. Yes, I thought about doing the DSG tune, is a matter of fact, I was talking to the tuner(Aaron from stuttgart-autohauss) last night at 1030pm on a car meet (Grand rd and Swan rd by the starbucks). I am just not too sure if I want to do the DSG tune on the A3 because it is my wife's car and she is not much involved on racing as I am. On the other hand, I am very tempted to do it so that I can see the difference. I am convinced that the car will run a 12 sec pass with the DSG tune, it is the matter or where I want to money to go to. 

You need to stop by the European car meet that has been going strong for 11 years in the same location that way I can meet you. Thanks for your inputs.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

Thanks for the detailed review between your A3 and S3. When my wife and I were first looking we drove both. While the A3 was nice it wasn't "special" like the S3. The S3 was just a totally different car. From the ride, to the body control, to the power

I see you have an STi too. What's your thoughts on that compared to the S3.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

-LoneStar- said:


> Thanks for the detailed review between your A3 and S3. When my wife and I were first looking we drove both. While the A3 was nice it wasn't "special" like the S3. The S3 was just a totally different car. From the ride, to the body control, to the power
> 
> I see you have an STi too. What's your thoughts on that compared to the S3.


My STI is now a 05 modded and the ride is not comparable. I sold my 15 STI' for the S3 so consequently I purchased this used 05 to attach myself still to the STI. This 05 STI that I have now is quick because of the mods that it has but again, it is light years from the S3 in refinement however I can tell you that the 15STI that I trade for the S3 had a heck of a nice ride. It had phenomenal brakes, super direct steering, decent power, great alcantara seats and amazing handling(no body roll). Gas mileage on the STI sucks on any gear, , any speed and any model, it is simply unpar


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## Chimera (Jul 6, 2002)

Were you able to weigh the S3?


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## selp (Sep 17, 2015)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> ^^ SELP. Yes, I thought about doing the DSG tune, is a matter of fact, I was talking to the tuner(Aaron from stuttgart-autohauss) last night at 1030pm on a car meet (Grand rd and Swan rd by the starbucks). I am just not too sure if I want to do the DSG tune on the A3 because it is my wife's car and she is not much involved on racing as I am. On the other hand, I am very tempted to do it so that I can see the difference. I am convinced that the car will run a 12 sec pass with the DSG tune, it is the matter or where I want to money to go to.
> 
> You need to stop by the European car meet that has been going strong for 11 years in the same location that way I can meet you. Thanks for your inputs.


Seems that the meetings are Tuesdays? Last week of every month? 

I will pm my info!

Regards


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

I can save myself 10k and purchase a few bolt ones and have the same power output as an S3. (I already had an S3 turbo laying around) 

granted, it would be a lot easier to just purchase the S3, but the Employee deal we got on my A3 was just wayyyyyyy to good to pass up, so I figured the S3 turbo would be the logical mod from day 1. Just had to wait for someone to develop the software. :wave:


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## turbo slc 2.9l (Dec 4, 2003)

Spoooolin said:


> I can save myself 10k and purchase a few bolt ones and have the same power output as an S3. (I already had an S3 turbo laying around)
> 
> granted, it would be a lot easier to just purchase the S3, but the Employee deal we got on my A3 was just wayyyyyyy to good to pass up, so I figured the S3 turbo would be the logical mod from day 1. Just had to wait for someone to develop the software. :wave:


Sure, you may be able to achieve the same power output as the S3, but good luck with longevity.. The forged internals in the S3's motor from factory are the major factors that come into play here, giving you a solid platform to work with.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> My STI is now a 05 modded and the ride is not comparable. I sold my 15 STI' for the S3 so consequently I purchased this used 05 to attach myself still to the STI. This 05 STI that I have now is quick because of the mods that it has but again, it is light years from the S3 in refinement however I can tell you that the 15STI that I trade for the S3 had a heck of a nice ride. It had phenomenal brakes, super direct steering, decent power, great alcantara seats and amazing handling(no body roll). Gas mileage on the STI sucks on any gear, , any speed and any model, it is simply unpar


I honestly don't know too much about the STI just that its name gets thrown out a lot when discussing the S3. I have heard some issues with the motors popping though. Stuff about open deck blocks vs closed deck blocks vs semi closed blocks. I suppose its similar to a 2 bolt main vs 4 bolt vs 6 bolt mains in the sense it has to do with block and rotating assembly strength. 

The STI is a car I have respected over the years but I guess I could never see myself in one. Always wanted to try out the AWD thing so I'm glad my wife got the S3. I've had RWD my whole life and refuse to get anything Wrong wheel drive (FWD) unless its some daily beater. Its just plain fun to hang my GTO's rear out at sheer will 

Is the 15 still hydraulic power steering? Seems like electric power steering will be the future due to fuel standards and the fact that's how driver assist features work (active lane assist). The Audi's power steering is very good though. I don't like it in "comfort" mode as it feels way to assisted but dynamic feels good. 



Spoooolin said:


> I can save myself 10k and purchase a few bolt ones and have the same power output as an S3. (I already had an S3 turbo laying around)
> 
> granted, it would be a lot easier to just purchase the S3, but the Employee deal we got on my A3 was just wayyyyyyy to good to pass up, so I figured the S3 turbo would be the logical mod from day 1. Just had to wait for someone to develop the software. :wave:



While this is certainly true it does have some strings attached. You may save 10K upfront but the second a motor lets go your no longer 10K ahead and bye bye warranty. Now if your only going to swap a turbo and do engine software and maybe dsg software then I guess that's fairly safe. Thing is you just voided the warranty on the two most expensive items on the car.

Then if you want to make an A3 handle like an S3 then that's also a good chunk of change. Then if you want it to look like an S3 then that's also a good chunk of change. So then your at a point where it would have just been easier and possibly cheaper to just buy an S3 

I'm not saying that an A3 sucks or anything I'm just saying sometimes its just easier and cheaper to pay a little more upfront. Reminds me of some of the V6 Mustang and Camaro guys that try to make it as fast as the V8 in the 1/4 mile and end up spending in spitting distance of what a V8 would have cost.


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## DeadBoltPoison (Aug 30, 2014)

-LoneStar- said:


> While this is certainly true it does have some strings attached. You may save 10K upfront but the second a motor lets go your no longer 10K ahead and bye bye warranty. Now if your only going to swap a turbo and do engine software and maybe dsg software then I guess that's fairly safe. Thing is you just voided the warranty on the two most expensive items on the car.
> 
> Then if you want to make an A3 handle like an S3 then that's also a good chunk of change. Then if you want it to look like an S3 then that's also a good chunk of change. So then your at a point where it would have just been easier and possibly cheaper to just buy an S3
> 
> I'm not saying that an A3 sucks or anything I'm just saying sometimes its just easier and cheaper to pay a little more upfront. Reminds me of some of the V6 Mustang and Camaro guys that try to make it as fast as the V8 in the 1/4 mile and end up spending in spitting distance of what a V8 would have cost.


I definitely see both sides of the coin and yes with all the potential upgrade that one may do on an A3 they can very well of just gotten an S3. At least for myself its was a few factors just like Spoooolin, I got a great offer that was tough to give up when they weren't offering something comparable on the S3. If I went with the S3 I would have been waiting for at least 20+ weeks. When they had an A3 Prestige in the color and package I wanted already. If I take in account the amount of work, time and, money I have put in yes I know I could have just waited and gotten the S3 but in the end I would have done the same mods on that car as well and would be further down the hole. So saving the 10k upfront actually worked out for me better. I really have no ambition to upgrade the turbo at the time and maybe down the line in a few years I will consider it.


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

I did 8 passes at Wild Horse Pass in Phoenix a few weeks ago and all 8 runs on my full GIAC Stage 2 car were between 12.3 - 12.7 109/110mph on every run consistent 60' 1.7-1.8 with my big heavy 3 piece 19x9's and full interior on 100oct race gas and necessary race file. temperatures were in the low 50 degree range. It was too cold to get the traction i needed. I will go back again when it's slightly warmer out and throw on my stock 18" wheels to see if things improve. The announcer finally realized on my 6th run that i was beating the 3 Hellcats and various other V8's that were there on a consistent basis. 

similar times to your S3. our elevation 1150ft


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

Chimera said:


> Were you able to weigh the S3?


Unfortunately no that day. The scale was not connected. The actual scale is physically there but they have to connect a electronic box/display(the size of a shoe box). I normally log my weight in all my cars. I will weight it the next time that is available


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

selp said:


> Seems that the meetings are Tuesdays? Last week of every month?
> 
> I will pm my info!
> 
> Regards


No. Every single Friday from around 745pm to around 1130 or midnight. Exact location is Swan and Grant(north corner where Starbuck is), there is a parking lot and like 15 cars or more every weekend.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

ProjectA3 said:


> I did 8 passes at Wild Horse Pass in Phoenix a few weeks ago and all 8 runs on my full GIAC Stage 2 car were between 12.3 - 12.7 109/110mph on every run consistent 60' 1.7-1.8 with my big heavy 3 piece 19x9's and full interior on 100oct race gas and necessary race file. temperatures were in the low 50 degree range. It was too cold to get the traction i needed. I will go back again when it's slightly warmer out and throw on my stock 18" wheels to see if things improve. The announcer finally realized on my 6th run that i was beating the 3 Hellcats and various other V8's that were there on a consistent basis.
> 
> similar times to your S3. our elevation 1150ft


Hey Brian... nice to hear back from you. I am sad that David (the photographer) left last week but I guess that our loss in Tucson is your gain, I am sure you will appreciate his company(knowledge, friendship, experience). Anyways, David has shown me some of your videos on his phone, I love the one of your car vs the Audi S4 on stage II.
I haven't ran my car at the racetrack in Phoenix(formerly known for years as firebird) but I would like to. I did 3 passes of 12.5 on the S3 but I also had a few bad apples(some 12.7s and even a 13.001 once). 

Thank for sharing your inputs, I have been a follower of your post here on this forums because I am getting the cars that you get but like a year later..:facepalm: and obviously I learn from your past experiences.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

-LoneStar- said:


> While this is certainly true it does have some strings attached. You may save 10K upfront but the second a motor lets go your no longer 10K ahead and bye bye warranty. Now if your only going to swap a turbo and do engine software and maybe dsg software then I guess that's fairly safe. Thing is you just voided the warranty on the two most expensive items on the car.
> 
> Then if you want to make an A3 handle like an S3 then that's also a good chunk of change. Then if you want it to look like an S3 then that's also a good chunk of change. So then your at a point where it would have just been easier and possibly cheaper to just buy an S3
> 
> I'm not saying that an A3 sucks or anything I'm just saying sometimes its just easier and cheaper to pay a little more upfront. Reminds me of some of the V6 Mustang and Camaro guys that try to make it as fast as the V8 in the 1/4 mile and end up spending in spitting distance of what a V8 would have cost.


As an A3 owner, I fully agree with the S3 owners. 

If I cared about the quickness, I probably would have waited a few months for the S3, but the A3 2.0T quattro is way more than enough for me. I however, care about the exterior and the interior; hence I got the S-line for both the exterior and the interior (and Canadian S-line essentially has the S3 interior with an even nicer (IMHO) perforated FBSW and perforated shift knob. I ended up paying just roughly ~4k less than an equivalent S3 with the same options. If I were to tune it, modify the exhaust and modify the suspension right off the bat, it would end up costing the same as the S3, so that wouldn't make any sense. Down the road though, I would go with a suspension upgrade when my OEM setup gets old, then it wouldn't be an upgrade cost, but rather part of the wear-and-tear repair cost.

Anyways...


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> Hey Brian... nice to hear back from you. I am sad that David (the photographer) left last week but I guess that our loss in Tucson is your gain, I am sure you will appreciate his company(knowledge, friendship, experience). Anyways, David has shown me some of your videos on his phone, I love the one of your car vs the Audi S4 on stage II.
> I haven't ran my car at the racetrack in Phoenix(formerly known for years as firebird) but I would like to. I did 3 passes of 12.5 on the S3 but I also had a few bad apples(some 12.7s and even a 13.001 once).
> 
> Thank for sharing your inputs, I have been a follower of your post here on this forums because I am getting the cars that you get but like a year later..:facepalm: and obviously I learn from your past experiences.


Glad to see another enthusiastic S3 owner here in Arizona.
Hopefully at some point later this year my S3 will be traded for a 2016 or 2017 TTS Coupe and I will swap most of my parts over to that car.


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## -LoneStar- (Aug 5, 2015)

DeadBoltPoison said:


> I definitely see both sides of the coin and yes with all the potential upgrade that one may do on an A3 they can very well of just gotten an S3. At least for myself its was a few factors just like Spoooolin, I got a great offer that was tough to give up when they weren't offering something comparable on the S3. If I went with the S3 I would have been waiting for at least 20+ weeks. When they had an A3 Prestige in the color and package I wanted already. If I take in account the amount of work, time and, money I have put in yes I know I could have just waited and gotten the S3 but in the end I would have done the same mods on that car as well and would be further down the hole. So saving the 10k upfront actually worked out for me better. I really have no ambition to upgrade the turbo at the time and maybe down the line in a few years I will consider it.


I totally understand where you and Spoooolin are coming from. Different strokes for different folks. Also you knew what you were getting into when you started. I don't like the people who don't do their homework and then seem pissed when they look at how much they spent when they were trying to save a buck at the beginning of their build. 

Also I went through your build and had some questions. How do you like your Unibrace UBQ? When I back my wife's car into the ally I can hear the car flex as it goes over the uneven surfaces. I know the chassis is plenty stiff as is. I'm sure you noticed this when you jack up the front of the car and the rear lifts with it with ease. Can you feel a difference with the Unibrace UBQ? 

Also where did you score the red S3 calipers. My wife has the black calipers and she's always saying how nice the red ones look. How much did you pay if you don't mind me asking. I know I can always paint them with caliper paint but that will never look as good as the factory coating. Feel free to post your response in your build thread if you don't want to muddy up this thread with off topic discussions.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

ProjectA3 said:


> Glad to see another enthusiastic S3 owner here in Arizona.
> Hopefully at some point later this year my S3 will be traded for a 2016 or 2017 TTS Coupe and I will swap most of my parts over to that car.


TTS Nice!

How much money do you burn on cars usually? I remember you upgraded from the A3 to an S3 not too long ago and you are already going for the TTS. Just wow! :thumbup:

BTW, what if the RS3 comes out? TTS --> RS3 or wait for the TTRS?


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## ProjectA3 (Aug 12, 2005)

VWNCC said:


> TTS Nice!
> 
> How much money do you burn on cars usually? I remember you upgraded from the A3 to an S3 not too long ago and you are already going for the TTS. Just wow! :thumbup:
> 
> BTW, what if the RS3 comes out? TTS --> RS3 or wait for the TTRS?



Since i work selling Audi's we got awesome employee purchase/lease options but we have to keep the cars at least 12 months. So i lease all of my cars.
The red A3 i had for 53 weeks and put 18,9xx miles on it. Swapp all of the parts I could over to the S3 within 11 days. The TTS will be on the same chassis and I'll be able to swap most of the stuff over to that car.

I will never total up the money spent but having sponsors for parts and help on labor certainly helps a lot.

RS cars don't qualify for the employee lease and discounts so I won't be getting one of those. I'm comfy with a $500-600 payment and that won't fit in that range.


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## VWNCC (Jan 12, 2010)

ProjectA3 said:


> Since i work selling Audi's we got awesome employee purchase/lease options but we have to keep the cars at least 12 months. So i lease all of my cars.
> The red A3 i had for 53 weeks and put 18,9xx miles on it. Swapp all of the parts I could over to the S3 within 11 days. The TTS will be on the same chassis and I'll be able to swap most of the stuff over to that car.
> 
> I will never total up the money spent but having sponsors for parts and help on labor certainly helps a lot.
> ...


AH, makes sense!


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## DeadBoltPoison (Aug 30, 2014)

-LoneStar- said:


> I totally understand where you and Spoooolin are coming from. Different strokes for different folks. Also you knew what you were getting into when you started. I don't like the people who don't do their homework and then seem pissed when they look at how much they spent when they were trying to save a buck at the beginning of their build.
> 
> Also I went through your build and had some questions. How do you like your Unibrace UBQ? When I back my wife's car into the ally I can hear the car flex as it goes over the uneven surfaces. I know the chassis is plenty stiff as is. I'm sure you noticed this when you jack up the front of the car and the rear lifts with it with ease. Can you feel a difference with the Unibrace UBQ?
> 
> Also where did you score the red S3 calipers. My wife has the black calipers and she's always saying how nice the red ones look. How much did you pay if you don't mind me asking. I know I can always paint them with caliper paint but that will never look as good as the factory coating. Feel free to post your response in your build thread if you don't want to muddy up this thread with off topic discussions.


Yeha Ill post in my thread later today. I wanted to give a week or 2 before I wrote anything about it.


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## Spoooolin (Mar 31, 2015)

turbo slc 2.9l said:


> Sure, you may be able to achieve the same power output as the S3, but good luck with longevity.. The forged internals in the S3's motor from factory are the major factors that come into play here, giving you a solid platform to work with.


I can see that part of it, but We are talking sub 400hp here, This isnt a race car. I am not to worried about longevity, If it blows up, It gets built (Perks of doing this for a living I guess). Part of the game that I am well aware of.


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## the ambush (May 29, 2001)

I too traded a '15 sti for the S3, and except for the sound and the super nible/direct handling, i totally dont miss it.
Ride is So comfy compared to STI and make the car enjoyable on any road.

I have a question for 1998gt1vr6, does your s3 ever lose traction in the front while the central diff doesn t seem to react, resulting in front spin and rear nothing. It happens to me on wet surface. Feels like the center is not strong enough to hold it thight so the rear wheels have equal torque as front.

I tried to get it tune last fall but apr had not unlocked the ecu yet on S3 of this batch.
So it is still stock for now

Thanks


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## mroberte (Dec 18, 2014)

Great info! I haven't tracked my A3 yet, but interested - as someone posted further up - about the difference between modded A3 compared to stock S3. I have Jb1, USP Catted DP and AWE touring exhaust and clocked about 4.4 0-60 with wheel spin on launch. Quite surprised actually at how well the car responded and woke up with the mods. No track in my area to test, but hopefully can get up to Sacramento to see the quarter results.

But so far in total, I've spent roughly 36K on the car that is a little above par than a stock S3 in terms of handling (Bilstein B16 Ride Control Coilovers) and speed. I just couldn't justify spending 15K more for the S3 and the lower gas mileage - commuter car when I bought it. So glad I didn't get the Diesel or the 1.8 as I would of been very disappointed.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

the ambush said:


> I too traded a '15 sti for the S3, and except for the sound and the super nible/direct handling, i totally dont miss it.
> Ride is So comfy compared to STI and make the car enjoyable on any road.
> 
> I have a question for 1998gt1vr6, does your s3 ever lose traction in the front while the central diff doesn t seem to react, resulting in front spin and rear nothing. It happens to me on wet surface. Feels like the center is not strong enough to hold it thight so the rear wheels have equal torque as front.
> ...


Yes, launching the S3 on wet will make some wheel spinning but not a whole lot though. Check with APR , they probably have a tune for your car now, mine was available like the first week of January but my car was a 16 model and the 16 models had further deterrents and other BS that needed to be sorted out. Definitely check with APR and send them your VIN and ECU number, they should be able to tell you if they can do it.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

mroberte said:


> Great info! I haven't tracked my A3 yet, but interested - as someone posted further up - about the difference between modded A3 compared to stock S3. I have Jb1, USP Catted DP and AWE touring exhaust and clocked about 4.4 0-60 with wheel spin on launch. Quite surprised actually at how well the car responded and woke up with the mods. No track in my area to test, but hopefully can get up to Sacramento to see the quarter results.
> 
> But so far in total, I've spent roughly 36K on the car that is a little above par than a stock S3 in terms of handling (Bilstein B16 Ride Control Coilovers) and speed. I just couldn't justify spending 15K more for the S3 and the lower gas mileage - commuter car when I bought it. So glad I didn't get the Diesel or the 1.8 as I would of been very disappointed.


My A3 WILL NOT absolutely WILL NOT spin tires if you use launch control. It just rolls for like a feet then gets more boost and all the sudden accelerate very hard. Look at a video from TLFCARS (two fast dudes that always test all the cars in colorado ), you will see what I mean. They hit the gas pedal and the car goes no where. I am scratching my head trying to figure out why your car comes out of the whole so well.


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## mroberte (Dec 18, 2014)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> My A3 WILL NOT absolutely WILL NOT spin tires if you use launch control. It just rolls for like a feet then gets more boost and all the sudden accelerate very hard. Look at a video from TLFCARS (two fast dudes that always test all the cars in colorado ), you will see what I mean. They hit the gas pedal and the car goes no where. I am scratching my head trying to figure out why your car comes out of the whole so well.


Ya I seen their TLFCARs reviews (the 1.8T and the S3). I think its just the combo of items I have on the car. Here is a video, first two are launch control, last seems more of what you explained - slow start then full boost.


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## kjcooperncsu (Jan 5, 2015)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> My A3 WILL NOT absolutely WILL NOT spin tires if you use launch control. It just rolls for like a feet then gets more boost and all the sudden accelerate very hard. Look at a video from TLFCARS (two fast dudes that always test all the cars in colorado ), you will see what I mean. They hit the gas pedal and the car goes no where. I am scratching my head trying to figure out why your car comes out of the whole so well.


That's strange, my a3 would at least chirp all four even when I was stock using launch control. Went to a small spin a stage 2. Now w/ is38 and dsg software that lets me launch at 4500 I can spin pretty hard.


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

*A3 Launch Control Is Terrible*

Anyone that has driven an A3 2.0T 8V knows launch control is garbage. Did you ever run the A3 in automated manual mode (shifter to far right), shifting yourself, and not use launch? It would be interesting to see how your times improve just simply running automated manual without launch control and shifting yourself. Also, it would be interesting to see the difference in your A3 times while in sport mode, that is pressing the ESC/ASR button briefly and the following message appears, "Stabilization control (ESC): sport. Warning! Restricted stability." Were you even driving the A3 in the aforementioned sport mode?


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## davera3 (Jul 26, 2014)

After owning my A3 for about a year, and APR chipped for 9+ months of it, I finally found a road to try launch control on.

It was not impressive, launched weirdly... almost like a .5+ seconds delay before it took off. But then again, I'm more of a 30-130 kinda guy, and not a 0-60 guy, so didnt really make a different to me.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

davera3 said:


> After owning my A3 for about a year, and APR chipped for 9+ months of it, I finally found a road to try launch control on.
> 
> It was not impressive, launched weirdly... almost like a .5+ seconds delay before it took off. But then again, I'm more of a 30-130 kinda guy, and not a 0-60 guy, so didnt really make a different to me.


Yeap!! that is it... that .5 sec delay is what I am describing and is exactly what would make the jump into another category in the 1/4 mile. If you are doing the 30-130 you wouldn't even noticed it.


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## 1998GTIVR6 (Nov 28, 2005)

ThorMjolnir said:


> Anyone that has driven an A3 2.0T 8V knows launch control is garbage. Did you ever run the A3 in automated manual mode (shifter to far right), shifting yourself, and not use launch? It would be interesting to see how your times improve just simply running automated manual without launch control and shifting yourself. Also, it would be interesting to see the difference in your A3 times while in sport mode, that is pressing the ESC/ASR button briefly and the following message appears, "Stabilization control (ESC): sport. Warning! Restricted stability." Were you even driving the A3 in the aforementioned sport mode?


You are correct.. launch control is gargabe as I described on my original entry post. I launch on manual mode but no luck although I didn't tried what you said(not using launch control and pushing the ESC once).


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

1998GTIVR6 said:


> You are correct.. launch control is gargabe as I described on my original entry post. I launch on manual mode but no luck although I didn't tried what you said(not using launch control and pushing the ESC once).


Is it engaging right? Does the A3 actually have launch control? I know it can be finicky to engage it, and at least on older models, there was no dash message or anything to let you know you engaged it right, so you might have not been in launch control but thought you were (if you aren't, it typically looks like launch control, but you can feel the car pulling slightly, and the rpm climbs to a different rpm every couple seconds.. if it does that, you aren't in launch control).


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## kjcooperncsu (Jan 5, 2015)

A3s definitely have launch control. The stock launch control launches at 3k which is way too low for the car. Even after tuning I could run a mid 12 second quarter mile but the best 60' I could get was about 2 seconds flat. Stock S3s can pull 1.8 second 60' bc they can launch from a higher rpm stock. After my dsg tune I can now consistently pull 1.8 60' launching at 4500 rpm. So stock to stock I can definitely see why someone would think that the a3s launch control would suck compared to the s3.


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## ThorMjolnir (Apr 9, 2014)

Did you run a mid 12 1/4 mile with just and ECU upgrade and stock IS20 turbo? Did you get a 93 tune? Also, what are your thoughts on the IS38 swap? What else have you modded with the IS38? It's a much healthier turbo, IATs stay much lower compared to the IS20.


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## kjcooperncsu (Jan 5, 2015)

ThorMjolnir said:


> Did you run a mid 12 1/4 mile with just and ECU upgrade and stock IS20 turbo? Did you get a 93 tune? Also, what are your thoughts on the IS38 swap? What else have you modded with the IS38? It's a much healthier turbo, IATs stay much lower compared to the IS20.


I ran a 12.8 @ 108 w/ 2.09 second 60' in 85 high humidity weather. Mods were Eurodyne stage 2, bullx dp, vwr intake, s3 intercooler. 

W the is38 swap and eurodyne dsg tune I ran 12.03 @ 114.25 w/ 1.82 second 60'. Weather was still about 80. The dsg tune ups my launch control to 4.5k. I've been very happy w the is38 swap. For the money is hard to beat, I mean people spend the same on a cat back as the turbo costs and you pick up another 40 hp q no noticeable lag.

I just added the uni intercooler and have meth on the way. Expect to be easily in the 11s next time


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