# Standalone Ignition Maps........



## patatron (Aug 10, 2003)

I am playing with a few different cars right now, and was curious how aggressive people have been able to get there ignition maps on standalone managements. I am playing with MegaSquirt'N'Spark mostly, but am curious to see screen shots of any Ignition maps you have, from any standalone. I am looking mostly for maps based on RPM and manifold pressure. Here is one I started with that I got from someone. I have changed it some since this, but dont have access to that one.








I am mostly playing with 8V's while I am learning the tuning process (Good to learn on a motors that are a dime a dozen!), so anything that I show will be from an 1.8 8V


_Modified by patatron at 6:24 PM 1-10-2006_


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (patatron)*

Here's mine that I am currently running.








2.0 ABA, ~10.5:1 compression here. TT276 cam and ITB's. About 45ft above sea level. I have never had MAP readings above 100kpa. 

_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:50 AM 1-12-2006_


_Modified by WolfGTI at 9:51 AM 1-12-2006_


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## 84_GLI_coupe (Apr 3, 2001)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (WolfGTI)*









Modified 2.0 8V map, dyno-tuned when the crank had 3mm endplay and there was shrapnel everywhere. Running on my 11:1 1.8 8V, now rebuilt. Could use some more advance though. 94 octane and sea level altitude.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (84_GLI_coupe)*

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=9941


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (OttawaG60)*

Anybody got one for a stco 2L 16v? i might know of someone in need


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## Eldorado56 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (VWralley)*

yeah, definately in need, very close to stock 2l 16v, any ign maps from someone with a similar set up would really get the ball rolling when it comes time to turn her over
thanks


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Eldorado56)*









9A, KR head and cams with 50mm inlet manifold.
EDIT: Running on UK 95RON fuel.


_Modified by martyn_16v at 11:32 AM 1-21-2006_


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (martyn_16v)*

45 deg advance at low kPa is where it's AT! Funny what having total control of the management does for you, I now get excited about 45 deg adv and afr of 16:1. Gets you like 35mpg.....
I've got some of my MSnSe ignition maps saved ,but can't seem to get them to post correctly....off to try and try again....








Okay, I'm retarded when it comes to resizing pics, can't get it done for some reason....

_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 11:17 AM 1-25-2006_

_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 11:23 AM 1-25-2006_


_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 6:30 AM 1-26-2006_


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## Eldorado56 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Andrew Stauffer)*

Andrew, What setup is that map for?


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Eldorado56)*

Can you even see it? That was for my Lysholmed 2.0 8v, now with broken rings. User beware......


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## Eldorado56 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Andrew Stauffer)*

not really, just curious though


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Eldorado56)*

mine








pretty happy with it...
could use more timing off boost to make it slightly more peppy...(looow compression)


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## EuroRabbit (Aug 4, 2003)

Dose anyone have any for a 16v (1.8 or 2.0) on ITB's? Would the timing settings be close to the same for a stock 16v?


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## 16V-Sauger (Aug 9, 2005)

*Re: (EuroRabbit)*

that would be really good to know http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Cabrio1.8T (Jan 6, 2003)

*Re: (16V-Sauger)*

Excellent pics. 45 degrees huh? That's crazy. I think the most mine sees is 32.


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (ValveCoverGasket)*

damn thanks for the boost timing map. can I use that on my 1.8 16v at 15-17 psi?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (tyrone27)*

give it a shot
ive taken it up to around 12-13 psi with no issues (as far as spark goes) i had a really rich fuel map at that point though so it misfired a little from that.
spark should be good to go though


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## Junkyardrabbit (Jul 7, 2003)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_give it a shot
ive taken it up to around 12-13 psi with no issues (as far as spark goes) i had a really rich fuel map at that point though so it misfired a little from that.
spark should be good to go though









Care to share your fuel map. 16vt is near completion and I'm debating on where to get msns with 4 bar map. Just need a basis to get it started.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Junkyardrabbit)*

i have a conversion post in the 16v forum that has both of my maps. the fuel one in that post could use some work above 7psi or so, but its a safe map


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (martyn_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *martyn_16v* »_








9A, KR head and cams with 50mm inlet manifold.
EDIT: Running on UK 95RON fuel.


Hey Martyn, I was wondering what ignition table would be more likely to run on my stock 16v. I see that the one you posted here is different then the one on your write up. Is the one posted above a lot better than the other one ? Thank you
-Chris
Edit: Im also kinda curious why some people have so much advance down low ? Thanx


_Modified by Captain16vGTI at 8:56 PM 2-19-2006_


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## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

ill need to program my first ignition map soon for my Megasquirt and dont really know where to begin hehe
is anyone of you guys have some map example for a 2l 16v 7.8:1CR ported head at around 15 psi ??
thanks


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_Hey Martyn, I was wondering what ignition table would be more likely to run on my stock 16v. I see that the one you posted here is different then the one on your write up. Is the one posted above a lot better than the other one ? Thank you
-Chris
Edit: Im also kinda curious why some people have so much advance down low ? Thanx

_Modified by Captain16vGTI at 8:56 PM 2-19-2006_

Aah, I should update the writeup one then. That original one was made using the standard VW Scirrocco 16v timing map someone posted up on here, but it's a fairly conservative map (and a bit bumpy in places). This more recent one is miles better the motor is transformed into a totally different animal, and it's still not a very agressive advance, there's probably room for a bit more advance at WOT once i get it on the rollers (someday







). It should be fine for a stock 16v


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (martyn_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *martyn_16v* »_
Aah, I should update the writeup one then. That original one was made using the standard VW Scirrocco 16v timing map someone posted up on here, but it's a fairly conservative map (and a bit bumpy in places). This more recent one is miles better the motor is transformed into a totally different animal, and it's still not a very agressive advance, there's probably room for a bit more advance at WOT once i get it on the rollers (someday







). It should be fine for a stock 16v











I just wanted to let you know that I tried this timing map and so far its awesome. I need to tune my fuel around it a tiny bit but its a great starting point. Thanks Martyn http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
-Chris


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Captain16vGTI)*

Cool


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## CdnDub (Dec 3, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (martyn_16v)*

Looking at a lot of those maps, you guys are running really conservative timing at WOT.. 
Generally you can find the Max Advance on a dyno with ease but on the street it becomes a little harder.. My suggestion, bring up the timing until you hear any pinging at all under load at WOT.. 
Back off 2deg's at a time until you dont hear it .. and i'm not talking massive piston melting ping, listen for the light stuff, bring the timing in 2-4de'gs at a time until you hear it. You wont blow up a motor with some light knock just be careful about it.
Once you find the detonation point bring the timing back 2deg's if it stops pull another 1-2deg's and you've found the sweet spot. Some say as much as 5deg's from knock to keep things nice and safe but given most people who tune their cars run specific fuel all the time its not likely you'll throw a tank of 87octane in if you tuned for 94.
I've tuned 1.8L 8V's with 18psi of boost at 16degs advance at max boost. The same motor at WOT not under boost will sing happily along at 32-36deg's at the torque peak. After you pass peak torque you can often add a degree or two of timing to keep the horsepower coming.
Every motor is different though.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (CdnDub)*

im lookin forward to giving martyn's map a shot on the NA side of my table soon


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (CdnDub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *CdnDub* »_Looking at a lot of those maps, you guys are running really conservative timing at WOT.. 

This is true, last dyno shootout i went to I was chatting to the operator and he suggested that I could probably go as far as 30deg or so at full wallop. One of these days i will actually get around to booking some time on a rolling road to get some 'proper' tuning done, and then we can see just how good/bad my butt dyno is








26deg is still more agressive than stock though, and this way I can still use regular fuel when my wallet is feeling a little light










_Modified by martyn_16v at 5:34 PM 2-24-2006_


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (martyn_16v)*

looks like 26 degrees is/was the stock setup.
im sure a few more degrees wouldnt hurt


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_looks like 26 degrees is/was the stock setup.
im sure a few more degrees wouldnt hurt








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[/TD]
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[/TABLE]

Keep in mind that 26 deg is ontop of the 6deg btdc. So 32 total.


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Captain16vGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Captain16vGTI* »_
Edit: Im also kinda curious why some people have so much advance down low ? Thanx


Bumps the idle up. If the engine starts to falter, it gets a dose of advanced timing which brings the rpms back up....


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## Wishy Washy (Feb 14, 2003)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Andrew Stauffer)*

Thanks for answering that Andrew http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif I thought it might be for idle but I wasn't to sure. 
-Chris


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Andrew Stauffer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Andrew Stauffer* »_Keep in mind that 26 deg is ontop of the 6deg btdc. So 32 total. 

ah, good thinking, forgot about that http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## typ53 (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (ValveCoverGasket)*

Just out of interest Martyn, 
What static advance were you using with that map?


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## martyn_16v (Jul 16, 2004)

There is no static advance, what is in the table is what you see at no1 sparkplug.
I'm not 100% convinced the 6 deg static timing on standard cars is added to that Scirrocco table that's been posted, 32 degress is a hell of a lot of advance for a factory setup, i'd be inclined to say that the values in that table are the actual measured advance. The 8v engines don't run much more advance than that...


_Modified by martyn_16v at 4:46 PM 2-28-2006_


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## PeOpLeG60T (Jul 5, 2004)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Junkyardrabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Junkyardrabbit* »_
Care to share your fuel map. 16vt is near completion and I'm debating on where to get msns with 4 bar map. Just need a basis to get it started.


would be a good idea







taking something who is driveable to begin, since thats my very first jump into standalone management
MS harness is done and already on the 16vT, EDIS is installed and i had fire at the plugs when cranking before the guy who was building and supposed to tune the MS flew away letting me alone with this big project ... soldering was crappy , damaged parts... bull**** work .... maybe some people know him here







is name is DUBWARRIOR please kill him for me ...at least he gave me back 300$ for the trouble
a friend made a complete revision over the board and stimulator and now its working with the Stim at least ... now time to prepare the preleminary maps for the moment when the car will get back home half april







he's sleeping shhhhhh zzzZZZzzzZZzzZZzz
i am now drivin it on Digi1 driveable but not the best performance ever beign stock management and safe boost setting at 7psi and around 7.8:1 CR


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## typ53 (Dec 25, 2005)

*Re: (martyn_16v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *martyn_16v* »_There is no static advance, what is in the table is what you see at no1 sparkplug.
_Modified by martyn_16v at 4:46 PM 2-28-2006_

Thanks for that - the Link ECU I'm using requires a static timing of 10 degrees and hence those figures were looking kinda aggressive with that in mind.


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## GTOBB (Dec 30, 2003)

In my 2.0 16v ECU :


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## Rat4Life (Oct 14, 2004)

was wondering if anyone has an ignition map for 1.8t with stok k03 sport turbo.
just had my engine rebuilted
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2496280
any help grately apreciated.


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## OttawaG60 (Apr 7, 2001)

*Re: (GTOBB)*


_Quote, originally posted by *GTOBB* »_In my 2.0 16v ECU :









Is this from the CIS-E motronic?


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## GTOBB (Dec 30, 2003)

IT's for ABF 2.0 16v tuned by me.


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## Eldorado56 (May 22, 2002)

*Re: (GTOBB)*

bump


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (Eldorado56)*

restricted honda f3 600cc cbr motor...


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## 19E-299 (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ValveCoverGasket* »_restricted honda f3 600cc cbr motor...









really impressive








@martyn, can i use your table on a 1.8L 16v, vw-m head, double exhaust cam, 4-1 header and 42mm itb's... as a startup? 
also, is anyone using some kind of knock control with their MS? is the closed loop posibility from MSnS working actually?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (19E-299)*

it can probably take more timing, but were still working out the fuel curves.
ive seen these things take over 55 at WOT/full load...


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## KingofNod (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*









Here is mine. I think its the one posted earlier with slight modification for 16v. I haven't even begun to street tune it yet, so I'm sure its got problems. My 2.0 16v has TT street cams, exhaust, G60 injectors, 3.5BAR FPR.


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## L33t A2 (Aug 5, 2003)

*Re: (KingofNod)*

I havent tried it, YET
I turned this...








Into this...


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: (L33t A2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L33t A2* »_I havent tried it, YET
I turned this...








Into this...









Why do you think that there is a low spot between 20-53 kPa and 800-1600 rpm's?


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: (flyvwguy76)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flyvwguy76* »_Why do you think that there is a low spot between 20-53 kPa and 800-1600 rpm's?

Isn't stock 16v idle advance 6 deg? I think that "low spot" is where it should idle, with the high point to the left (lower rpms) a sort of catch if the idle dips. more advance/more fuel to bump the rpms back to ~1000.


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: (DGruber58)*

That makes sense.


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## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: (flyvwguy76)*

anyone have any more maps they've modified recently?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (mk2dubbin)*

here is a 2L 8v higher c/r (11:1? or something) solid lifter big cam rabbit i played with this weekend.








could probably go quite a bit higher at full load but we figured wed leave well enough alone









i should also point out, that this map started life as martyn16v's spark map, which i modified to fit the rabbit


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## aspro (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

Here is my spark map - I use Alpha N as it seems to be smoother when using ITB's


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

*Re: (ValveCoverGasket)*

and just for ****s...
an updated to the 16vT spark map i posted earlier in this thread (which can also be viewed in my long MS 16vT thread in the 16v forum...along with tons of MS screen shots)


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## pdogg (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: (aspro)*

does this map work good ?and what motor is it on it looks alot different than the one that i use on my 1.8 8v i have alot more timing above 100 kpa and alot less below than your map let me know what you think 
4000 rpm 50 24.0
4000 rpm 65 24.5
4000 rpm 85 26.8
4000 rpm 100 kpa 28.4
4000 rpm 125 kpa 26.7
4000 rpm 150 25.2
4000 rpm 175 23.9
4000 rpm 200 21.6
4000 rpm 225 19.7


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## pdogg (Nov 11, 2004)

*Re: (pdogg)*

oh i forgot some info stock 1.8 with g60 head 10.1 comp 57 trim t3 running 11/12psi on megasquirt 2 with fmic 28x6


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## epjetta (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (WolfGTI)*

now that looks like a base map. probably runs very good. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (epjetta)*

Excellent thread. When I first started tuning programable management, I focused on the fueling. Turns out, engine's don't care too much about that(there are exceptions but for the most part....). Ignition timing is where it all happens, seems much more critical to hp and tq production after the past two years......
How are you guys getting your spark tables up on here? Every time I try it you need a magnifying glass to view it, it doesnt' come out in the same size as what I'm seeing on here. I've got them hosted via Photobucket, saved em via screen print into MS Paint. Anyone tell me where I'm going wrong? I've got a map to add....


_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 5:34 AM 10-20-2006_


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## aspro (Jun 18, 2004)

*Re: (pdogg)*

Hi Pdog
The timing i have posted is for Alpha-N dot speed density, it uses throttle postion as the Y axis instead of manifold pressure.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Andrew Stauffer)*

This is what my spark table finally morphed into. Before I graduated to my new motor. This table was run spring through fall 2006. It put 133 to the wheels on my ITB'd 8v - stock compression. It also allowed me to run 17:1 AFR's when cruising and as a result I got great mileage cruising and when I needed it the power was there. Note - this motot lived pretty much at sea level or a barely 100 ft above it. Your maps may differ based on your height above sea level due to different barometric pressure. My atomosphere barometric pressure was usually in the 99-100 range. The car also ran 93 octane all the time, please keep that in mind , as with lower octane I would trim the timing WOT at least 2 degrees.




_Modified by WolfGTI at 7:57 PM 10-20-2006_


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## epjetta (Sep 19, 2006)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (WolfGTI)*

everyone with an 8v should just copy your map!!


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (epjetta)*

seriously, thats a good base map!


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (VWralley)*

Thanks. - All it takes is logging and analysing the logs.


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Thanks. - *All it takes *is logging and analysing the logs.

ahaha!! it ONLY takes...








if anyone else is getting into a 16v on msns, myself an epjetta took the stock map above an put it into an ms map, its an awesome first map, as all you would need to do is tune in your fuel, mine is runnig dififant inj


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (VWralley)*

Yeah, Mendra makes it sound like a drop in the bucket. Pouring over datalogs will make your head spin after a while.....though running a knock sensor with the datalog would show you where to focus and allow you to be pretty darned aggressive. 
This map is working well for my supercharged 2008cc 8v, though it remains untested above 160kPa. 

















[


_Modified by Andrew Stauffer at 7:06 AM 10-27-2006_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_Thanks. - All it takes is logging and analysing the logs.

That's funny. Thats an awesome ign map, but a lot of those really high timing values in the mids are there for a reason, lean cruise. If you're not that lean, you won't need timing values that high and you'll actually lose efficency at those points. I think it'd be helpful if you post up your old AFR target table and VE table to show people how they match up. I think that will tie it all together for some folks.
Oh and not many people can use that map directly unless they're running ITBs, look at the low MAP range.


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## scott66 (Jul 5, 2003)

as soon as i get home from Central America i will put up my SDS maps.


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## VWralley (Mar 30, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_
Oh and not many people can use that map directly unless they're running ITBs, look at the low MAP range.

i dunno, i used the stock 16v map pictured above an put that directly into ms and it works badass on my ITB'd 16v...
now that i look at his again though you are right about the middle areas, back those off a few deg. and you could put that into any vw watercooled motor an it'll make some good ponies http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (VWralley)*

Can we see your VE table and your Air/Fuel table that goes along with this?


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## DGruber58 (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (flyvwguy76)*

what's the benefit of the 32 degrees across the bottom (low MAP)?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (DGruber58)*

Those 32's are just relics, that motor never saw that little map except on hard decel when it'd go into fuel cut anyway. They could all be 0's or 50's and it'd still be the same. I'd guess that bottom row was part of the starting timing map though when we first started tuning and never touched it since.


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## WolfGTI (Jun 16, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (flyvwguy76)*


_Quote, originally posted by *flyvwguy76* »_Can we see your VE table and your Air/Fuel table that goes along with this?









Ok --


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## mk2dubbin (Mar 16, 2002)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (WolfGTI)*

quite interesting in comparison to the typical maps shown. too bad mine surges on anything leaner than high 15's it seems...


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (mk2dubbin)*

Try more timing when it's running that lean and you can squeak a few more tenths out of the A/F. Repeat and you might be able to get that lean.


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (WolfGTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *WolfGTI* »_










I like the way you did the deceleration areas of your map here. I tuned my decel today to smooth it out (I have 2.0L 16v with 276 cams), and I used the same technique that you have: Less timing at the low decel MAP values. Basically, less timing on the entire bottom of the map. It seems like everyone posts ignition maps where the lower right quadrant of the ignition map is just a cube of high timing. 
In the end, my car decelerates much more smoothly now, and it is much more comfortable to drive on the street with the big cams. I think that less timing along the whole bottom of the ignition map is a good idea. Especially if you have an aggressive engine.


_Modified by NTRabbit at 6:12 PM 11-13-2006_


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## evil-e (Aug 15, 2005)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (NTRabbit)*

Any more people running 16VT's w/ a map to share? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Andrew Stauffer (Oct 2, 2000)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_
I like the way you did the deceleration areas of your map here. It seems like everyone posts ignition maps where the lower right quadrant of the ignition map is just a cube of high timing. 
In the end, my car decelerates much more smoothly now, and it is much more comfortable to drive on the street with the big cams. I think that less timing along the whole bottom of the ignition map is a good idea. Especially if you have an aggressive engine.
_Modified by NTRabbit at 6:12 PM 11-13-2006_

Agreed. I just saw in the MSnSe Manual that the low kpa timing can be dropped significantly to produce engine breaking. And you're saying it runs smoother on decel. I'm anxious to try it....


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (Andrew Stauffer)*

Here is my ignition map. Ignore the idle area, I'm still messing with that. But you can see where the ignition slopes downward around 3000 rpms and low MAP. I keep my AFR values at roughly 14.7 in the decel area too. The engine seems to like it a little leaner on decel. If it drops below about 13.7, I start to notice some engine bucking.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (NTRabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *NTRabbit* »_I keep my AFR values at roughly 14.7 in the decel area too. The engine seems to like it a little leaner on decel. If it drops below about 13.7, I start to notice some engine bucking. 

You can go WAY leaner then that if you put some timing in that area of the map. Also, what compression you running 25deg total is about right for a high comp motor on pump but not much else.


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## NTRabbit (Mar 28, 2001)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (need_a_VR6)*

I have a 1.8L 16v head on a 2.0L 16v bottom end, which bumps the compression up to 10.9:1 I believe. I am running it on 93 octane.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (NTRabbit)*

The comp with the 1.8 head on a 2L is the same as just a 2L, 10:1. You can run about 30deg total on that setup on pump with no problems.


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## ewillard (Apr 21, 2007)

*Re: Standalone Ignition Maps........ (need_a_VR6)*

up


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## AutoCrosser11 (Jun 23, 2004)

not to thread jack, but how would one learn how to creat there own spark table?
I'm running fuel only and would like to run spark alsso but I just have no clue how to correctly make the table?
can any one point me in the right direction?


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

*Re: (AutoCrosser11)*

go wit hone of the maps posted...if your NA
For FI folks run a knock sensing setup of some sort. or EGT gauge and start with one of these NA maps and tune positive manifold pressure from there...I'll have to post my timing map for my ABAt


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## AutoCrosser11 (Jun 23, 2004)

*Re: (Salsa GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Salsa GTI* »_I'll have to post my timing map for my ABAt

Please do. and can you post up your target afr table also?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

All motor cars will run decently with the whole table at 30.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

That being said, this is not my current one but almost:


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## ewillard (Apr 21, 2007)

lets bump this up here is my motor setup up that im building now we should have it in tonight or tomorrow. i need a good base map to brake the motor in on. before the tunning begins

94 aba block,profesionally done by justice racing.
ARP main studs
scat rods
83mm wiseco aba pistons notched for 16v. 8:1 comp
ARP head studs
ABA head gasket
rebult/ported 2.0 16v head
Autotech cams
Autotech high rev springs
ABF timing belt
All new gaskets
VW windage tray
new oil pump
new intermediate shaft bearings/9a intermediate shaft set up!!
new all bearings!! 
lysholm with 53mm pulley 
550cc delpin injectors
IGN-1A Race Coil http://www.diyautotune.com/cat...a8e85
crazy coil
ms2 3.57 2.01 extra


_Modified by ewillard at 1:24 PM 4-16-2010_


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_That being said, this is not my current one but almost:









I tried this out on my rado.... seems to like it better than what I was running. I did however bump things up a touch on the bottom 2 rpm bins to help catch decel stalling.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

With your compression, that makes sense and you might even want to add more timing in other places as well. That's for ~11:1 comp.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

yeah I might go up a touch in the low load cruise areas. Say 2500 to 3800 rpm. My motor cc'd out at 10.29 to 1


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Might be a wash then because I have a bigger bore. I've been meaning to lean out the low load cruise and add some timing to that one anyway.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_Might be a wash then because I have a bigger bore. I've been meaning to lean out the low load cruise and add some timing to that one anyway.

I'm not sure I want to mess with it after all. Partial cross post from the MS3 forums... 44+ MPG on a 325 mile trip up I95 to Savannah GA today! Drafting our race trailer I'll admit but still, 44 freaking MPG!


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*FV-QR*

Good stuff. I can get 30+ on the highway with that one with a 4.24 and a .75 5th.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

37.5 on the way home. Very little drafting and average speed about 72MPH with a 3.68 r&p and .80 fifth on 195/50R15 tires (23" tall) Unfortunately I'm also starting to get noise from the tranny's input shaft bearing. Hey it's got 175,000 miles on it!


_Modified by Prof315 at 7:23 PM 4-25-2010_


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