# ***USRT: 16v Cam Triggers News***



## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

True OE+ Bolt-on Performance!

R&D NEWSFLASH: We're one week away from having plug n' play 16v cam angle sensors to trigger ME7 ECUs. This will also 16v cars to be run off ME7 ECUs. Goodbye distributor and plug wires! So, turbo swaps will be much easier without going the standalone route.

Additionally, we'll get to the water necks, high CR pistons, and such to do Mk4 8v to 16v conversions. This makes for a more practical all motor setup than the 20v (because more aggressive cams may be fit). VW went this route with their Mk4 rally cars.





But, then it gets *even crazier*. A following distributor replacement will house a* Mitsubishi EVO ECU-compatible trigger*. Those ECUs will "opened" for reprogramming like a standalone and will be supplied with plug n' play wiring harnesses, too. 










ORDER YOUR: VW 16v "EVO" Trigger Adapter <<CLICK THERE!!

There is no limit to USRT's technology silliness. We do what we please "because". #wackos #lostourminds #nobodyasked4this


*UPDATE FRIDAY, FEB 9, 2017:* 
5x EVO Triggers have been made, 5x SOLD, ready for shipping!
5x ME7 Triggers will be available next week!


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

Is this for the KR-style 16V? What do you do for a crank sensor?


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

MikkiJayne said:


> Is this for the KR-style 16V? What do you do for a crank sensor?


It will fit KR, PL, 9A, and ABF.
Crank trigger is crank trigger. This is a cam position sensor only.
If you need a crank trigger, then you must add a crank trigger.
HOWEVER... The EVO version will double as both cam *and* crank position.
The EVO signal will not be usable with ME7, but it'll sure work with modern standalones.
-and the EVO ECU, of course.
Any standalone that works on an EVO, Miata, or DSM will accept the EVO trigger.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Very excited to use the EVO cas for standalone installs.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

I've used the DSM CAS on a few 16v setups in the past. It's easy to make an adapter, and it would be very neat to use it with the stock Mitsubishi-based ecu.
I had a b**tch of a time getting the DSM CAS to work with my MS3Pro though, so I dumped it cold. No matter what I tried, or however many pullup resistors I tried (1k, 10k, 4.7k, and even lower than 1k), I could not get an RPM signal. I tried 12v, 5v, but no luck. 

If it's a CAS that'll work with the Evo 8 ECU, there are a TON of non-EVO ecus that will work too .


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Very excited to use the EVO cas for standalone installs.


Paul, you are a leader in this game. So, your interest and respect is _most_ appreciated. :beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

The dsm cas should work on pro with 330-1k pullup but I havent tested it. 

Will get the evo cas tested on pro and micro shortly.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Will get the evo cas tested on pro and micro shortly.


While we've got each other's attention, do you have a car to test the ME7 version (to start with), by any chance? I'd make you deals, regardless, but perhaps you can help here? We're doing the ME7 piece first and _the_ the DSM/EVO/Miata/Mitsubishi, or however we wanna refer to it.


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## B4S (Apr 16, 2003)

need_a_VR6 said:


> The dsm cas should work on pro with 330-1k pullup but I havent tested it.
> 
> Will get the evo cas tested on pro and micro shortly.


I tried everything. A lot of people seemed to have the same issue with Pro and the DSM CAS, aka: lack of RPM, which means no start .
I've used this a dozen times in the past, but never with Pro, so I assumed it would work. I had to eventually swap to a crank wheel, and modded 16v dizzy for my signals. It bugged me that I could never get the CAS to work .

The EVO cas is just a cam pulse. There is a crank wheel behind the timing gear to provide the crank signal. The DSM CAS works with the EVO ecu, as long as you use the EDM ROM file, which I did on my Colt 4G63 swap for a long time. The DSM CAS and EDM evo 4G63 engines use a similar cam/crank pattern, so they're basically compatible.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Don't know of any offhand that I have access to. To make it work on me7 you need to be running a late block or with an external trigger. Most of those are already on standalone.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

B4S said:


> The DSM CAS and EDM evo 4G63 engines use a similar cam/crank pattern, so they're basically compatible.


FWIW, the Miatas use the same exact CAS. So, Megasquirt integration can copy the Miata path. :beer: We do Miatas 'round here.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)




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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Yep used that CAS a few times on DSM's and early Miatas and as a retrofit to the 99up ones.


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## MikkiJayne (Jan 1, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Crank trigger is crank trigger. This is a cam position sensor only.
> If you need a crank trigger, then you must add a crank trigger.


No, really? :facepalm: 

What I meant was do you have a neat solution for a crank trigger for a KR *to use in conjunction with this cam sensor* to allow the use of ME7 to replace CIS?

Clearly not.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

MikkiJayne said:


> No, really? :facepalm: What I meant was do you have a neat solution for a crank trigger for a KR *to use in conjunction with this cam sensor* to allow the use of ME7 to replace CIS?


Hey, it's hard to read minds. I try, but...  Anyway, we do not currently offer a crank trigger. It's on the development list, though.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Please do the 034 one isn't even concentric. :banghead:


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## soon2bGTI (Oct 22, 2003)

yea I use the 034 one and it works but I don't think its the best design. im going to see if the machine shop can swap over my tone ring from my ABA crank to my ALH crank in my stroker build.


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## frechem (Oct 19, 2002)

need_a_VR6 said:


> Please do the 034 one isn't even concentric. :banghead:


I found this out first hand. :banghead:


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

After a few design revisions, yes, it's been made.

The EVO version could be ready to be produced as early as this weekend.

The ME7 version is going to be tested shortly.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

https://vimeo.com/169854390


EVO CAM TRIGGER CAD.

We made changes to not only the oil oring boss but also how it interfaces with the cam.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Here it is folks! The EVO Cam Trigger for the VW 16v in the flesh!




Imagine... having an open source EVO ecu for ease of tuning and a wiring harness already made to work with it and your factory sensors!:beer:


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## Enter the chicken (Dec 11, 2011)

Do you know when these will be available?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Even better than an evo ecu is a real standalone ecu! Can't wait to use this.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Enter the chicken said:


> Do you know when these will be available?


We have one of each version going out to testers in the next week or so. After testing is complete and there are no issues we will mass produce. I'd guesstimate about a month?*Fingers crossed* eace:


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Just a lil bit about that TT 16v you see in this thread that's helping the development of the cam triggers:

ABF 16V twin turbo. Utilizing Garrett GT2052 internally gated. The head has been completely rebuilt using Supertech valves and Techtonics Tuning springs and Ti-retainers. The bottom end uses JE Pistons and Integrated Engineering H beam connecting rods. All contained in a 1990 Jetta Coupe.

The engine will be running a Megasquirt 3X with full sequential ignition/injection. :beer::beer:


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## KramersKarts (Apr 12, 2013)

Very interested in this.

Will the the non-Evo CAS version be compatible with the 1.8t cam position sensor units, or what does me7 use for a cam sensor?

(Just picked up an MS3 Pro and looking forward to fully sequential fuel and ignition on the 16v)


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

On pro the cool part is use the evo/miata cas and not need the crank sensor to be retrofitted.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

KramersKarts said:


> Very interested in this.
> 
> Will the the non-Evo CAS version be compatible with the 1.8t cam position sensor units, or what does me7 use for a cam sensor?
> 
> (Just picked up an MS3 Pro and looking forward to fully sequential fuel and ignition on the 16v)


The "non-EVO" version actually uses a 1.8T trigger inside. So, it is natively a direct fitment for use with ME7. With that said, Paul's advice just above is on point. If you're going to run MegaSquirt, then the EVO trigger is THE way to go. You'll get both cam position _and_ also crank position. -a two for one special.  There is no reason at all to only use one when the two, together, deliver superior results.


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## GlhTroy (Aug 6, 2013)

[email protected] [email protected]

When will these be available for purchase? Or am I looking in the wrong place on your website? I would like to buy one of the EVO units later this year or January 2017

Thanks
Troy 

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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Prototype is out for testing.


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## GlhTroy (Aug 6, 2013)

👍🍺thanks @need_a_vr6 i was hoping that phase was done 

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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Live in the flesh!





btw..Thanks Need-a-VR6 for the backup! :beer:


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## GlhTroy (Aug 6, 2013)

👍🍺 I have a feeling they will sell fast

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## DjBij099 (Jul 21, 2003)

Can't wait for what the final price will be :thumbup:


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## tyrone27 (Sep 7, 2001)

Any news On pricing 

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## ewillard (Apr 21, 2007)

Any updates time to start planing winter build/mod list


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## GlhTroy (Aug 6, 2013)

[email protected]

We have money burning holes in pockets in this thread 

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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

standby folks! I'll get you some info tonight or tomorrow :beer:


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

OK GUYS!

Here's the deal:


We have 5 of each (EVO and ME7) type to be produced. However our testers have fell through for reasons unknown...

SO... if you are *READY *aka you could *fire up this weekend or NO LATER THAN 30days* from now we can provide one of each type. Pricing to be determined but i need a real NO BS, GO or NO-GO :thumbup::thumbdown:. 

We are NOT looking for someone with a winter project for the testing. 

These are Beta examples therefore once the testing is complete if there are any changes needed we need to know so we can revise the next round and other people can finally order with confidence.:heart:

PM or email me if you're seriously in a position to help us AND the community. :beer:eace:


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

Subscribed. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these!


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

bump


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## GlhTroy (Aug 6, 2013)

I wish I was close to start up year+ 😧

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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

I'm getting closer.....

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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

the ME7 version trigger has been successfully tested  :beer:


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Alright ladies and gents!

USRT PRODUCT NEWS JANUARY 31, 2107: R&D takes a looooong time and we're happy to announce that our VW 16v cam/crank triggers are very nearly ready for action. We have produced just FIVE of both types.


The ME7 trigger will work directly with any Bosch ECU supplied on a VW/Audi 1.8T 20v (and probably others, too). _Removal of the exhaust cam is required _for the end to be drilled and tapped. Retail price is likely to be *$210*. This includes the sensor itself.


The "EVO" trigger adapter works directly with a standalone ECU (or Mitsubishi EVO, DSM, or Miata). It reports cam position *and* also crank position. _Removal of the exhaust cam is required _for the end to be drilled and tapped. A bolt-in sensor must be harvested from any Miata (1990 - 1997). Retail price will probably be *$115*.


Which flavor are you going to pick? Remember, just FIVE units have been produced in this initial batch. Parts will be released in approximately 2.5 weeks. We're in the homestretch, lads. :beer::beer::beer:eace:eace:eace:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

Two evo/dsm please.


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## jaysvw (Oct 15, 2001)

One Evo style for me!

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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

Those interested, please email me [email protected] with your paypal and shipping addresses and I will send an invoice. Be sure to include the model type you'd want. :beer:


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## MancusoGTI8v (May 24, 2002)

Exactly the same.

Can I use the 1.8T cam and then a MS3....for fully sequencial 16V 

Luis Roberto




KramersKarts said:


> Very interested in this.
> 
> Will the the non-Evo CAS version be compatible with the 1.8t cam position sensor units, or what does me7 use for a cam sensor?
> 
> (Just picked up an MS3 Pro and looking forward to fully sequential fuel and ignition on the 16v)


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

MancusoGTI8v said:


> Exactly the same.
> 
> Can I use the 1.8T cam and then a MS3....for fully sequencial 16V
> 
> Luis Roberto


Please see Scott's post near the top of the page. I don't see the need for the extra effort to fit a crank sensor to use with MS3 when the EVO version does both.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

If you already have the 60-2 use the aeb cam sensor. If you have nothing use the evo/dsm/miata cas.


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Please see Scott's post near the top of the page. I don't see the need for the extra effort to fit a crank sensor to use with MS3 when the EVO version does both.


Well, the *EVO sensors are all sold* now. So, now his question matters again.  The answer is "Yes". The ME7 and MS3 ECUs do sequential injection with this single cam position sensor, already. So, whether the sensor is attached to a 20v or a 16v, the sensor will support the ECU's functions. The EVO version also reports crank position. However, that's _not_ required for sequential. (It's more about counting misfires when compared to the main crank position that's actually _on_ the crank.)

With all that said, sequential injection is great but not the end all be all that some think it is. The power difference is minimal. Mostly, it's an emissions thing. Better = better, though! Sequential *is* definitely "better".


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## [email protected] (Jan 13, 2005)

need_a_VR6 said:


> If you already have the 60-2 use the aeb cam sensor. If you have nothing use the evo/dsm/miata cas.


YEP! For very sophisticated tuning, though, you could run both the standard VW crank sensor _and_ also the "EVO" setup (with Miata CAS). The crank trigger is the authority for crank position and the signal that's produced by the CAS is compared to it. When they differ, the ECU logs a misfire.

Of course, I'm not "splaining" this to YOU.  I'm using your comment for illustrative purposes to help others. :wave:


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

The first batch EVO Triggers are *SOLD OUT* and pending shipment! eace:eace:

The ME7 Triggers are due for release next week!

Stay tuned for the ME7 Trigga release and get 5% off with my own super snazzy Coupon Code:_QTRIGGA7_ :beer::beer::laugh::laugh::beer::beer:


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

For those interested I am looking to do a local install using one of the EVO triggers. Be it a full install or a retrofit, I can do both. Just want one of these running in front of me to get all the base settings for the future nailed down! PM me or email at [email protected]


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## ewillard (Apr 21, 2007)

Paul i emailed you

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## the dubshow (Mar 18, 2008)

holy crap. this is amazing. Amazing enough for me to reset my old account and log in to say: Thanks! And I am ordering 1 now on the site. Im going back through and reading up. Looks simple enough. Now to the junkyard to finish my 5 year project.


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## [email protected] (Oct 6, 2009)

the dubshow said:


> holy crap. this is amazing. Amazing enough for me to reset my old account and log in to say: Thanks! And I am ordering 1 now on the site. Im going back through and reading up. Looks simple enough. Now to the junkyard to finish my 5 year project.


AWESOME! I'm glad to see this innovation is still able to drive builds on an old tried and true platform!:beer:


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## the dubshow (Mar 18, 2008)

Anyone care to share their settings for ignition advance values? Got mine setup and idling but not quite right.


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