# Question on Supercharger



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

Do you think it would be safe to run a stage 2 supercharger setup (8psi) on my vr6 with 10.5:1 compression?
would i have to worry about detonation, or blowing something up?
im eventually getting a 15psi pulley for it, and i know i cant run THAT much boost on 10.5:1 compression, but by that time ill already have a headspacer on the car.
Just wondering *for now* would it be safe to run 8psi on 10.5:1 compression without any problems? thanks


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## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

you will be fine....I ran 11 psi on intercooled @ 10.5:1 for over 2 years in the HOT HOT Vegas summers. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_you will be fine....I ran 11 psi on intercooled @ 10.5:1 for over 2 years in the HOT HOT Vegas summers. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

but im not going to be intercooled until later
would that serve more of a problem?
also im currently running schrick 268 cams.
think those would interfere with the setup?
its a VF stage 2 charger kit with GIAC software


_Modified by eurobred at 2:26 PM 11-21-2007_


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

I think the cams may set you off a bit depending on how much injector/fuel you have left. But since VF won't say what size fuel injector they use the only way you can tell is with Vag-Com.
Check with VF if they have a 268cam chip for their s/c kit. If not, contact C2motorsports for an answer.
Good luck. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (nater)*

Is this a Corrado? Distributor?If so I would def. not run cams. My VF stage 2 w/ cams, mild headwork, test pipe, and catback ran ridiculously lean past 4500 rpm, 14.5-15:1 specifically. I now run a #30 C2 dizzy chip and the car runs perfect. 
VF stage 2 injectors for Mk3 and Corrado are #30 Bosch redtops. I know this for a fact.
If you have a dist. Corrado and are going to mod this setup get a C2 #30 inj. chip. The car will be faster, run better, and handle mods well. I "think" C2 relies more on the MAF input at WOT so more air=more fuel. The VF(Giac) chip did not like my mods at all.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*

i guess i have to message c2motorsport. cuz i kinda knew my cams would interfere. that picture is not my car. i have a '95 OBD1 Coilpack motor
so it looks like i have to get another chip? and use it with the kit 
also any other opinions on running 8psi on 10.5:1 compression? safe???


_Modified by eurobred at 12:06 AM 11-22-2007_


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## CDJetta (May 11, 2004)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

You will be fine on that pressure. I'm doing a small test on my VR right now. I'm at 13psi right now with my stock compression. 10:1 on my MK3. Still running strong. This is on a Turbo setup.







I was running 11 with no intercooler or anything but I just connected my methanol up to run the 13psi. Going to turn it up to 15 soon to see how that works.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_i guess i have to message c2motorsport. cuz i kinda knew my cams would interfere. that picture is not my car. i have a '95 OBD1 Coilpack motor
so it looks like i have to get another chip? and use it with the kit 
also any other opinions on running 8psi on 10.5:1 compression? safe???

_Modified by eurobred at 12:06 AM 11-22-2007_

Oh,ok. Obd1 95' should be fine w/ cams. I only have experience w/ the corrado tune and as stated it didn't work. I personally would not run 10:5 to 1 but you will be ok. Run the highest octane you can and over 90* I wouldn't take it to 7k. Also, you won't get 15psi out of a V9. I run a 2.25" pulley which is the smallest I've ever heard of and I see ~11.5, just under 12. VF doesn't make a stage 3 for your car so they will probably sell you the 2.25" pullley and idler for like $400. That should get you ~270-280whp. If you wan't more I would suggest a V1, V2 charger or Turbo.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*

some of my friends are saying dont, some people are saying ill be fine. i understand the temperature is a big deal. its a daily driver, so hopefully its not that big of a deal. 
im guessing my 268s are gona interfere with the software as far as idle? and my timing chains have about 70k miles on them. 
im not gona get a stage 3 from VF, i know that a headspacer, bigger injectors, more boost, and a front mount would pretty much make me stage 3. anymore suggestions?


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

The VF SW bumps the idle to like 800rpm so the 268's will be fine @ idle. The issue may be up top as the SW was tuned on a stock car. Hence the reason for a wideband or dyno w/ AF to see if there is an issue.
VF doesn't make a stage 3 for your car. What I'm saying is that the only way you will spin the blower faster to make more than 8psi is by buying VF's stage 3 pulley and idler. They are the only company that has a pulley and idler for a V9 that will boost over 8psi. Unless you wan't to have them custom made and I'm sure that will be over $400. You don't need a headspacer or bigger injectors than the ones that come w/ the VF kit. Basically it sounds like you are making plans to boost more than 11-12 psi. What I'm telling you is that you can't on a V9. 2.25" pulley is 11-12 psi. That's the smallest they make. A smaller custom pulley will only slip.
If I were you I would put a stock headgasket back in, cams, VF stage 2, stage 3 idler and pulley, and some kind of intercooler/meth. Enjoy a reliable 270-280whp. If you wan't more forget the VF kit. Buy a used V1 or V2 kit or go turbo.


_Modified by slc92 at 10:29 AM 11-22-2007_


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*

i kinda dont wana get rid of my cams. you think ill lean out up top because of them?
so you're saying eventually get another charger? would a V1 or V2 fit on the same brackets the V9 uses? or would i have to buy a new charger AND new brackets?
im just afraid of blowing something up running that boost on that kind of compression...


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

I don't think you'll run lean but it's always possible. You won't know until you see A/F. Do you already have the VF kit? V1 or V2 will not use the same brackets. Stock compression will be fine at ~11-12psi in any weather w/ an IC or meth injection. I hit 10 psi @ 6500rpm on 93 octane w/ no issues. I hit 11.5psi @ 7K on 93 octane w/ no issues but I don't make a habit of it until I get an IC. The V9 kit stops right where your fuel pump does, #30 injectors do, stock compression etc. Right at that ~280whp mark. After that you have to change all those so kind of up to you. If you already have the VF kit I would do what I rec. in my last post. It will be reliable and a blast to drive http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif However, if you wan't more you'll have to ditch the V9 charger, #30 inj, lower compression, in-line pump etc. etc.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*

so pretty much for NOW it would be safe to run 8psi on my 10.5:1 compression and have minimal problems...?
ill most likely be looking into getting a headspacer and an intercooler when im ready to run more boost. but for now, to run what the kit comes with. i want to now if its ok to do it, i drive my car daily and sometimes ill punch it but its not 24/7 im opening her up.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

Ok, the most you'll do at 10.5 to 1 is pull some timing up top. What gas can you get? Run the highest you can. Like I said I just wouldn't push it when its really hot out. You WILL NOT blow the car up at 8psi from a SC. The most you'll do is lose some power from like 6000-7000 rpm due to knock/timing pull especially when it's hot out.
I'm trying to help but you are still taliking about a headspacer so I'm not sure if you understand you can't push enough boost from a V9 to need a headspacer. Maybe you plan on a different charger or turbo in the future.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_Ok, the most you'll do at 10.5 to 1 is pull some timing up top. What gas can you get? Run the highest you can. Like I said I just wouldn't push it when its really hot out. You WILL NOT blow the car up at 8psi from a SC. The most you'll do is lose some power from like 6000-7000 rpm due to knock/timing pull especially when it's hot out.
I'm trying to help but you are still taliking about a headspacer so I'm not sure if you understand you can't push enough boost from a V9 to need a headspacer. Maybe you plan on a different charger or turbo in the future.
i see how you're saying the V9 wont put out enough boost to have to run a headspacer, eventualy ill be looking to get a V1 or V2 to run more boost, along with a headspacer and a intercooler setup. but for not im not thinking about the headspacer and IC. so thats good, sounds like ill be fine running the 8psi on the charger on my compression without worrying too much. i know just not to push it when its super hot out. so night time would be alright. i get how the cams might lean me out a little because its more than what the software is ready to handle between 6k-7k rpm. i dont push it that high that much.
the highest pump gas i can get in my area is 91 octane, and i run that all the time now. so nothing will change in that


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

Cool. I would run the cams and 91 octane and then get it dyno'd w/ A/F to make sure all is well. Also anything that will make the engine run cooler will help. Low temp T-stat, low temp fan switch, 85%water, 15%coolant and water wetter for summer, oil cooler if possible. I do all of that and my oil never goes over 200*F, coolant never over 190*F. Good Luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

also the kit (as you know) looks like you have the same setup.
it requires you to drill and tap into the block.
what about the oil pan? is that an option?


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_Cool. I would run the cams and 91 octane and then get it dyno'd w/ A/F to make sure all is well. Also anything that will make the engine run cooler will help. Low temp T-stat, low temp fan switch, 85%water, 15%coolant and water wetter for summer, oil cooler if possible. I do all of that and my oil never goes over 200*F, coolant never over 190*F. Good Luck http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

i already have an oil cooler, my oil temp never goes over 200* unless its 100+ degrees outside. so thats not a problem








i might take my dads idea. he had a scirocco 2.1L on 100shot wet nitrous and he ran his fan on a switch, he could keep it on the whole time the car is running, and wont go off until he turns it off http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

VF and Vortech came to the conclusion that under certain conditions the oil level in the pan was higher than the drain hole thus blocking it. This would cause a buildup of oil pressure in the charger and eventually blow the seals. I'm guessing Vortech was warrantying too many chargers. The solution is to tap the block. I have done this and it's a PITA unless the front is off the car. However, I've gone over 5k miles w/ no oil issues on my MAF or charger problems. I would tap the block. Rebuilds are $800-$1000. They say it voids your warranty if you don't but how would they know. It's up to you.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*

oh wow didnt know that.
ok well the block it is i suppose.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*

this setup looks like it kicks ass
http://shop.verdictmotorsports...Id=94
just pretty expensive, doesnt look like you will ever see belt slip with that kit...
well worth it?


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*

ups


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_this setup looks like it kicks ass
http://shop.verdictmotorsports...Id=94
just pretty expensive, doesnt look like you will ever see belt slip with that kit...
well worth it?

thats the price of the kit alone. install is another 700 bucks on top of that unless you do it yourself. its a waste of time. get a V1/2 and wait for them to come out with that set up. paying for the same set up but being able to push more boost on a charger that can handle it is better. 
i ran my car in the summer into the winter now with 10.5:1 compression and i have the 3.125 pulley and ive seen 11psi at 7k rpms. but thats on a V2. you can get by with it but when its super stupid hot in the summer, high boost and no intercooler dont get along. you can get water/meth and run higher boost in the summer all the time without an intercooler.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (punk rock kiel)*


_Quote, originally posted by *punk rock kiel* »_
thats the price of the kit alone. install is another 700 bucks on top of that unless you do it yourself. its a waste of time. get a V1/2 and wait for them to come out with that set up. paying for the same set up but being able to push more boost on a charger that can handle it is better. 
i ran my car in the summer into the winter now with 10.5:1 compression and i have the 3.125 pulley and ive seen 11psi at 7k rpms. but thats on a V2. you can get by with it but when its super stupid hot in the summer, high boost and no intercooler dont get along. you can get water/meth and run higher boost in the summer all the time without an intercooler. 

11psi with 10.5:1 compression wow, um are you running meth injection? or running an intercooler at all?


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_
11psi with 10.5:1 compression wow, um are you running meth injection? or running an intercooler at all?

You can get away w/ alot on a SC car. You are only @ peak boost for a sec. They rarely if ever blow up. That does not mean you aren't pulling timing up top and losing power. My car just ran ALOT faster on 104 octane. I must have been pulling timing @11.5psi 10:1 compression w/ 93 octane.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (slc92)*

is there a reason why supercarger setups dont reach their max boost until late in RPMs?
is it because the motor doesnt spin fast enough until then?


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## punk rock kiel (Aug 27, 2003)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_is there a reason why supercarger setups dont reach their max boost until late in RPMs?
is it because the motor doesnt spin fast enough until then?

the faster the motor spins, the more you spin the charger cause its run off the serp belt. 
i been running the 11lb pulley for a month or 2 now. beating it while daily driving i see around 6psi max usually. you can be at 6k rpms but not be full throttle too, so it doesnt mean full boost either.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: Question on Supercharger (punk rock kiel)*

The problems that can cause slip.
1. Loose belt
2. Pressure resistance that will cause the impeller to slow down, thus slow down the pulley and cause the belt to slip until it heats up enough to make the pulley speed up. This can sometimes be solved by tightening the belt even more or sand blasting the pulley with fine-med glass bead to not have a glass like contact surface of the pulley. 
3. Motor mounts, if you do not have good mounts your engine can pivot back towards the firewall causing the boot tube to make contact with the shock tower, thus releasing the tension the charger has on the belt. 
4. Wet conditions can allow water to get onto the belt that gets transfered to the pulleys and causes slip on the charger as well as the crank. Normally you will notice your power steering failing when this happens as the belt also slips on the power steering pulley. 
5. Belt slack caused by things like running the C2 dual idler as there seems to be more back driving to forward driving transitions that make small increments of slack that is only seen after the charger tightened into position. This could possibly be solved by cranking the engine while tightening the belt.
Problems with damaging the charger bearings and the aux components of the engine ie: Alternator, Power steering pump, Water pump.
1. Water pump : Too much belt tension will cause premature failure of the water pump due to the extra load that is put off the center line of the bearings.
2. Alternator : Excessive load can cause the bearings to prematurely fail, or the brushes can wear unevenly.
3. Power steering pump : It seems these fail as there is a lot of load put on the pump as this seems to be a major point for picking up belt slack. 
4. Alignment being off causing a load pulling or pushing the main charger shaft in and out. Thus causing the seal failure as well.


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

I'd just bolt on the kit and drive it. After you do the install...do a dyno run along with an A/F reading. This will tell you if the car is running lean with the cams.
VF found that the V9 was failing above 12psi, thats why they switched over to the larger V2 for the stage 3/4 on the R32 kits.
The VF kit was pretty much designed around a stock engine...so the programming was done around a stock engine. When you throw other parts into the mix...your on your own so to speak.
Seems like your getting to far ahead of yourself. Install the kit drive it for a while...then go from there.










_Modified by abt cup at 5:13 PM 11-25-2007_


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## corrado1409 (Aug 19, 2002)

*Re: (abt cup)*

Did anyone ever see 12psi? I have a 2.25 inch pully on a V9 and at 7400RPM I only see 11.5 psi.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (corrado1409)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corrado1409* »_Did anyone ever see 12psi? I have a 2.25 inch pully on a V9 and at 7400RPM I only see 11.5 psi.

I see about 11.5psi @ rev limiter 7k with the 2.25" pulley and idler. You should see more @ 7400. My guess is you are slipping. It is a pretty small pulley so I wouldn't doubt it.


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (corrado1409)*


_Quote, originally posted by *corrado1409* »_Did anyone ever see 12psi? I have a 2.25 inch pully on a V9 and at 7400RPM I only see 11.5 psi.

VF going above 12 psi on the stage 3 and up on the V9 for the R32's...at that pont they had all kind of problems with them.
There are a few threads in the R32 forum on the stage 3/4 kits.


_Modified by abt cup at 7:06 PM 11-25-2007_


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_
VF was doing 14-15 psi on the stage 3 and up on the V9 for the R32's...at that pont they had all kind of problems with them.


Curious to know the Crank pulley diameter of the R32 and SC pulley size they were using to get 15 psi out of the V9.


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_For a little clarification, I'll elaborate:
The Stage 2 System, as mentioned above, essentially replaces the stock spring-loaded belt tensioner with the supercharger unit. The blower unit and its pulley act as the belt tensioner by adjusting its position on our proprietary supercharger bracket. Once proper belt tension is achieved, simply torque down the mounting bolts and you're done!
Our Stage 3 and Stage 4 offerings are quite different in that respect. These kits have their very own crank pulley mounted piggy-back over the stock crank pulley in order to run a dedicated belt strictly for the blower. The stock belt runs the accessories. There is a seperate, manually-adjusted belt tensioner for the accessory belt and another for the blower itself.

The reasoning behind this double belt system is to allow for increased boost without belt slip issues. The secondary crank pulley is of a larger diameter than the stock crank pulley. This has the same effect as using a smaller Supercharger pulley; It creates more boost by spinning the supercharger at a higher RPM. 
Why not just run a smaller supercharger pulley you ask? Because a smaller supercharger pulley has less surface area for the belt to wrap around. This means less traction between the belt and the pulley, which in turn means belt slip! 
I hope this clarifies everything for you!








Feel free to PM me with anymore questions!


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

AHH, figured they were using a larger crank pulley. I've thought about this but when I plugged the #'s into an equation that calculated charger rpm I found that the V9 was nearing it's max rpm with the 5.5in. crank pulley and 2.25" charger pulley. Perhaps the reason VF had issues and made the switch. 
The V9 can push up to 11.5-12psi on a 12valve. Good for 270-300whp depending on mods. I've seen NO evidence a V1/V2 makes more power at the *same* psi. They CAN flow more CFM but that only comes into play if a 2.8L 12v is outflowing the V9. I don't think it does. There have been a couple recent dynos of V1/V2's @ 11-12psi w/virtually the same mods that I have and putting down 270-280whp. I'm trying to dyno ASAP to see how the V9 compares.
That being said, you can produce more power w/ a V1 or V2 b/c you can produce higher boost. Highest I've heard is 15psi. Anyone push one further?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

15psi is close to the max due to the pulley diameter that would be involved would be very very small and not have a lot of contact area. The only real way I could see a setup going higher would be with a larger crank and overdriving everything, however that would mean there would be even more wear on the aux components, that should be slowed down to the designed factory rpm/ratio. The other way would be have a second pulley on the crank that drives just charger.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*

If I could get 20-22 psi out of a Centrifugal SC I would never even consider a turbo in the future. I haven't heard of anything over 15 though. Funny how the V9 can handle a 2.25" pulley but the V1/V2 seems to be slip limited at a 2.5"(15psi). The 2.25" on a V1/V2 should be good for 18psi. Maybe they are harder to spin thus more prone to slip than the V9?


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_If I could get 20-22 psi out of a Centrifugal SC I would never even consider a turbo in the future. I haven't heard of anything over 15 though. Funny how the V9 can handle a 2.25" pulley but the V1/V2 seems to be slip limited at a 2.5"(15psi). The 2.25" on a V1/V2 should be good for 18psi. Maybe they are harder to spin thus more prone to slip than the V9?

Yea, I think your onto something with the V1/V2 having too much slip to run over the 2.5" pulley. 15psi is the current max I can make a cogged pulley for, as the shaft diameter would interfere with the pulley teeth. If you ran a setup simular to the R32's do with the 2nd belt to only drive the charger, then you could run a large diameter 2nd crank pulley and then run something like a 2.75" charger pulley that would allow you to make more contact.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*

Another interesting thing I found was that w/ a 2.5" pulley the V2 is actually being spun past it's max ,and the V1 pretty much @ max according to Vortech. Their max impeller speed is lower than the V9 or 50,000-53,000. I'm coming up w/ 59,000 rpm for the V9 and 2.25" pulley. Efficiency stops at 60,000 and absolute max is 65,000 so I'm about there. 
I guess bottom line on a 12V is V9 max is 11-12 psi w/2.25" and 15psi on a V1 w/ 2.5". V2 has a diff. ratio so is technically being overspun w/ a 2.5" 2.7"(12-13 psi) should be max on a V2.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

V1 S Trim will flow 1000cfm's max and the V9 flows 800cfm's max, so a V1 would still make more power with the extra 200 cfm's from the charger. The test would be to get a V1 flowing its peak cfm's and a V9 flowing its, and see the comparison on the same engine.


_Modified by DeckManDubs at 2:38 PM 11-26-2007_


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*

I remember my friend had a V1...and he was making around 6psi at 5k.


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DeckManDubs* »_V1 S Trim will flow 1000cfm's max and the V9 flows 800cfm's max, so a V1 would still make more power with the extra 200 cfm's from the charger. The test would be to get a V1 flowing its peak cfm's and a V9 flowing its, and see the comparison on the same engine.

_Modified by DeckManDubs at 2:38 PM 11-26-2007_

To make the assumption that a charger that can flow more CFM will make more power at the same psi, you need to know what a 2.8L 12V flows. Same reason why putting a bigger CFM carb doesn't always make more power. If the engine can't flow it it won't make more power. I've found some equations but didn't know all the variables. Seems to me like V1's, V2's, and V9's all make ~250whp @8psi and ~270-300whp @10-12psi. I dyno tommorow so we'll see.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (slc92)*

Good luck @ the dyno


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## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
To make the assumption that a charger that can flow more CFM will make more power at the same psi, you need to know what a 2.8L 12V flows. Same reason why putting a bigger CFM carb doesn't always make more power. If the engine can't flow it it won't make more power. I've found some equations but didn't know all the variables. Seems to me like V1's, V2's, and V9's all make ~250whp @8psi and ~270-300whp @10-12psi. I dyno tommorow so we'll see.

this is correct...ask me how I know....


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (LSinLV)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LSinLV* »_
this is correct...ask me how I know....
















Thanks but how do you know?







How do you find out what a VR flows @ a certain rpm and boost level? The equations ask for efficiency etc. which I did not know. When I plugged in approx. values a 12valve was not flowing more than 750-800CFM @10-12psi. Figure at 14.7psi a 2.8l is basically a 5.6L(even less b/c the SC isn't 100% efficient?. What size carbs can a Ford 302 or Chevy 305 flow? I may be way off on this so if anyone knows,feel free to chime in.


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## TheDeckMan (Sep 26, 2004)

*Re: (LSinLV)*

Larry, you mentioned something about flow benching a 12v head when I was out in Vegas, any info?


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## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (DeckManDubs)*

I do no real imperical testing while the head was out sorry....but many here have perfomed some basic mods which are proving what we are seeing in reality.
Patrick (jettset) built a custom downpipe and gained 35 whp....as did jason (adcockman) similar design with 2.25" to 3" collector....so it's pretty obvious the issue with the downpipe is flow restriction.
as with my car, we went from the V9 to the V1, all other things being equal and with greater flow the V1 is producing the same output at a lower boost (10 pis vs. 15 psi). each charger was spinning at max impellor speed.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (LSinLV)*

ok i got the kit on but it wont start.
it gets this weird spark pattern when the key is on. it continues to tick like its because its sparking.
it will turn over but not fire...
i put the GIAC chip in, connected everything, there is this confusing little black box that 2 wires tap into from the MAF plug, and i think 2 go to a power source and ground.
any idea on why it wont fire up?


_Modified by eurobred at 10:59 AM 11-27-2007_


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Did you splice the MAF wires for the box?


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

yea i did.
the instructions kinda suck...
there is an extension thats for the maf so it can go down into the fender and reach, 2 of the wires from the box splice in 1 side of the expention, and the other side plugs into the maf. i turned the key on, and i unplugged the maf and it still gets this weird spark pattern and wont fire up...
i couldnt bring my car home, i live in costa mesa, my buddy was helping me in covina so its stuck there until i can get someone to come out and help me out with it if thats possible...


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Is your chip plug in?
Make sure the chip is pressed in and the chip is in the right direction.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

im sure the chip is in right.
there is a dimple on 1 side, that lines up with the rest of the dimples on the cercuit board correct?


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Yeah...there should be a dot/notch on the chip that matches up with the one on the socket.
I would double check. If you didn't touch anything else when doing the install I'd look at the chip again. Double check the wires on the MAF and make sure the plug to the ECU is tight.

My friend had a bad burn on his chip and the car did not start...so its possible.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

well first i need to get someone to pick me up so i can go to the car... its about 25 minutes away from me...


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Also did the chip come w/ an encryption socket and did you use it?You need to start double checking everything


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*

encryption socket?, i dont think was used... 
i called VF and asked how much it was for a new chip, they said $500..








thats alot of money for a chip...


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

You bought the kit used? If so does the number on the chip match the ECU?


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

i just got word that i may need that encryption board...
im calling VF right now to get a replacement...
hopefully its not $500...


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Hold on. What car/year/management/injectors is this? If C2 has software for your car/injectors I would go with them. My C2 chip was $300.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*

yea but i wont be able to get that C2 chip until probably a week from now...
i need to get a new encryption board...


----------



## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (eurobred)*

As you wish http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Good Luck.


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## Noobercorn (Aug 17, 2007)

*Re: (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_yea but i wont be able to get that C2 chip until probably a week from now.....

it will be worth the wait.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (Noobercorn)*

they didnt even have an encryption board in stock, have to wait until tomorrow... ill let you guys know how it goes...


----------



## farfromugen (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_Also did the chip come w/ an encryption socket and did you use it?You need to start double checking everything

I'm curious to what the "encryption socket" is for? Mine came with one, but I honestly have no clue to what it is.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (farfromugen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *farfromugen* »_
I'm curious to what the "encryption socket" is for? Mine came with one, but I honestly have no clue to what it is.









yea and my dumbass dropped it and bent 3 pins, when i tried to bend them back, they broke





























its designed to encrypt their software so no companies can steal their information...


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

So it was the chip?


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_So it was the chip?









haha yea its because i effed up the encryption board... so i need to get another. $250 plus core. returning the broken one.
im glad i found the broken encryption board in the TRASH...








because if i couldnt find the old broken one and return it to VF, it would have costed me $500 to get a new chip/encryption board


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## farfromugen (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_
haha yea its because i effed up the encryption board... so i need to get another. $250 plus core. returning the broken one.
im glad i found the broken encryption board in the TRASH...








because if i couldnt find the old broken one and return it to VF, it would have costed me $500 to get a new chip/encryption board
















Wow! Yeah, I called them when I looked into a few used OBD1 kits trying to see what the OBD2 chip ran. Wondered about that board since I already had a GIAC chip for the cams I had in there and it was just a chip. You'll be happy in the end though...we have had rain the last few days here, so it has been killing me not knowing what the car can do (installed SC on Saturday)


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (farfromugen)*

car runs,
idle is a little funky sometimes.
it cuts off.
im almost sure that its the power source to the MAF clip box.
i dont think i have a good power source/ground fed to it.
cant really open it up much, need to break in the charger.
i need to find a very shallow filter, since there is no room for a filter down in the fender for the CAI, im running an open MAF with a sock over it (can you say ghetto?)
its the only thing i can do until i find a very very shallow air filter to fit under there...


----------



## MeCarTay (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_i need to find a very shallow filter, since there is no room for a filter down in the fender for the CAI, im running an open MAF with a sock over it (can you say ghetto?)
its the only thing i can do until i find a very very shallow air filter to fit under there...

Most people run a silicon elbow to move the filter out of harms way. As the way it sits now you risk the chance of soaking the filter during wet conditions.


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

the sock on the charger will result in a very crappy run
Move the charcoal canister & put the intake through to the bottom.
The maf has to be at least 10" from the charher intake
A flex tube works wonders here. 
clean/sand the MAF harness connection pins & use dielectric grease.

..come back w/ good news for page 3


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (gtimagic)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gtimagic* »_the sock on the charger will result in a very crappy run
Move the charcoal canister & put the intake through to the bottom.
The maf has to be at least 10" from the charher intake
A flex tube works wonders here. 
clean/sand the MAF harness connection pins & use dielectric grease.

..come back w/ good news for page 3










the intake is down in the fender already.
because the mk3 fenders come down and curve inward, there is not much room for an air filter, im probably going to have to run a shallow filter, like an HKS or maybe an oval K&N thats only about 2-3" thick. i might buy some screen to put over it right now because i know the sock will hold moisture.


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## SilverTrek12v (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*

The max boost of a v2 all depends on the sc trim.
You need to spim the sc to its maxmax for most boost.
Stock crank size on a 12v is 5.4", i've oversized mine and the biggest you can go is 5.8" do to the bolts on the crank seal cover and the oil pan.
2.5" pulley on a v2 is the limit with a 7 rib belt, i'm supprised that you v9 guys are able to run a 2.25 pulley,(keep the belt tight







)
My current setup is a 5.8 crank, 2.3 sc pulley, 10 rib custom belt setup v2 e-trim, max out at 7200rpm, i'm getting 15-16 psi with the loss of fmic ,2.5" pipping ,without the intercooler it would be 17-18psi.
Curently changing setup for next year ,diffent sc for alot more boost


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## hogis (Jan 23, 2005)

*Re: (SilverTrek12v)*

(SilverTrek12v) - Do you have any nr's on your setup? http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## LSinLV (Nov 25, 2001)

*Re: (SilverTrek12v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverTrek12v* »_The max boost of a v2 all depends on the sc trim.
You need to spim the sc to its maxmax for most boost.
Stock crank size on a 12v is 5.4", i've oversized mine and the biggest you can go is 5.8" do to the bolts on the crank seal cover and the oil pan.
2.5" pulley on a v2 is the limit with a 7 rib belt, i'm supprised that you v9 guys are able to run a 2.25 pulley,(keep the belt tight







)
My current setup is a *5.8* crank, *2.3* sc pulley, 10 rib custom belt setup v2 e-trim, max out at *7200*rpm, i'm getting 15-16 psi with the loss of fmic ,2.5" pipping ,without the intercooler it would be 17-18psi.
Curently changing setup for next year ,diffent sc for alot more boost










based upon *YOUR *data you are spinning your V2 @ 65363.48 rpm's (per Vortechs calculator), which is approximately *13,300 rpm's MORE *than a V2 should be able to spin.....how are you keeping it from exploding?!?!?!


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (LSinLV)*

im noticing a teeeeny bit of wear or rubbage on the backside of my belt (im running a gatorback) is this normal? 
im running non a/c, so i have that extra bracket with the roller to complete the belt revolution


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (eurobred)*

hows fit ment of the kit in your MKII im thinking about going this route soon. ill probably go with a new kit as i dont want the hassle of broken or missing parts. it sounds like the only issue is the intake.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (Black86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black86GTI* »_hows fit ment of the kit in your MKII im thinking about going this route soon. ill probably go with a new kit as i dont want the hassle of broken or missing parts. it sounds like the only issue is the intake. 

my kit was brand new also.
no missing parts.
the only issue is clearance for the intake tube, its bulky, i had to bang the inside of my frame next to the fender to get it to clear.
the intake reaches too far down to the ground, you either have to get a very shallow air filter, or use a flex pipe of some sort to direct the tubes away from the ground


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

I'm using the normal size filter that VF supplied. I have the flex tube at a 90 degree bend with the filter tucked behind the bumper.
If you want to talk about space issues...talk to a VR Corrado owner.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_I'm using the normal size filter that VF supplied. I have the flex tube at a 90 degree bend with the filter tucked behind the bumper.
If you want to talk about space issues...talk to a VR Corrado owner.









haha yea trust me the next time i see you ill show you.
its ridiculous.
the filter almost hangs lower than my front lip...
im concerned about wet conditions...
boost guage - i can hook it up to the bypass valve that comes off of the brake booster right?


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Mines spliced off the fuel pressure regulator.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

do you think its safe to run it where the bypass valve is on the brake booster?


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_do you think its safe to run it where the bypass valve is on the brake booster?

I would run the vac. line to whatever is most convenient and closest to the gauge. The filter actually stuck out below my front lip by about 1/2-1" when I still had the stock Corrado spoiler on the car. VF was like yeah you need to run the Eurospoiler. Basically the Corrado kit is for a MK3 Jetta/Golf. I'm sure they sell such a low volume that it was not worth it to redesign an intake that worked and fit properly on a corrado. I think you have a MK2? Pretty much on your own as the kit was not designed for that car.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
I think you have a MK2? Pretty much on your own as the kit was not designed for that car. 

but i got it to work


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_do you think its safe to run it where the bypass valve is on the brake booster?

My bypass valve is run off the connections at the EGR frequency valve.


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## Black86GTI (Jun 4, 2002)

*Re: (abt cup)*

sounds good. do you guys have any pictures of the intake issues? i have a while untill my car comes together but ill proly end up making my own intake since thats seems to be the biggest issue


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (Black86GTI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Black86GTI* »_sounds good. do you guys have any pictures of the intake issues? i have a while untill my car comes together but ill proly end up making my own intake since thats seems to be the biggest issue


here is mine
this intake tube is massive bulky
had to do some banging for the clearance..


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

I'd try and clear as much of the hole as I can. If there isn't enough room when the motor rocks...the edges will cut the tube.
Your filter looks too big...mines only about five inches long.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_I'd try and clear as much of the hole as I can. If there isn't enough room when the motor rocks...the edges will cut the tube.
Your filter looks too big...mines only about five inches long.

thats my old filter the one i was using N/A
i have the one that came with it on the car.
i managed to use a flex tube and get the filter on the MAF.
but the car still cuts off sometimes... any ideas...?


----------



## SilverTrek12v (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: (LSinLV)*

max rpm all depends on the trim, the v2 has many different trims available,not all are one there web site ,BUT my sc is on the site AND like I've said it's an E-TRIM, that has a max rpm of 65000







like the v9
http://www.vortechsupercharger...x.pdf




_Modified by SilverTrek12v at 2:20 AM 11-30-2007_


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

You put the MAF on the correct side right?


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_You put the MAF on the correct side right?









of course.. lol
the open side towards the intake, the grid side towards the filter


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (gtimagic)*

so car runs normal but if its under boost and i come to a stop, it cuts off...
maybe the diverter isnt opening? i cant hear it. My buddy has the same setup and you can hear his when he opens it up and gets off of it...
maybe its cutting off because too much boost is built up in the intake?
any ideas?


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Did you use the flex tube? The MAF is supposed to be 18 inches from the SC inlet.


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## farfromugen (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_so car runs normal but if its under boost and i come to a stop, it cuts off...
maybe the diverter isnt opening? i cant hear it. My buddy has the same setup and you can hear his when he opens it up and gets off of it...
maybe its cutting off because too much boost is built up in the intake?
any ideas?

I thought about that too since I couldn't hear mine either, I had a vacuum gauge (like what you might use to bleed brakes) and connected it to the DV, I'd go to about 5 in/hg and then release, you could hear it close back. Maybe we aren't listening for the right noise


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

Your not going to hear the DV under normal acceleration. You have to kinda be on it to hear it. Its not going to have the "pshhhh" sound like a 1.8T...its going to sound more like a whistle.
When I do get on it...I can hear the whistle between shifts and on decel.


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## farfromugen (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_Your not going to hear the DV under normal acceleration. You have to kinda be on it to hear it. Its not going to have the "pshhhh" sound like a 1.8T...its going to sound more like a whistle.
When I do get on it...I can hear the whistle between shifts and on decel.

true...I'm still breaking mine in too so now WOT past redline runs yet http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## slc92 (Feb 9, 2005)

*Re: (SilverTrek12v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SilverTrek12v* »_max rpm all depends on the trim, the v2 has many different trims available,not all are one there web site ,BUT my sc is on the site AND like I've said it's an E-TRIM, that has a max rpm of 65000







like the v9
_Modified by SilverTrek12v at 2:20 AM 11-30-2007_

Ahh, didn't see the E-trim for the V2. I assume you are running lowered compression? Any #'s on this car? Track or dyno?
Surprisingly I get no noticeable slip w/ a 2.25" on the V9 w/ VF's single idler. I've heard alot of V1/V2 guys complain about slip w/ a 2.5" and dual idler. I'm guessing since the V9 is smaller it's easier to spin?



_Modified by slc92 at 7:49 PM 12-2-2007_


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_Did you use the flex tube? The MAF is supposed to be 18 inches from the SC inlet.

the MAF is probably more than 18" from the SC inlet...
yes i used the flex tube but i think MAYBE because the boost is getting sent to the wrong place, or maybe because that flex tube isnt clamped all the way air tight around the CAI tube... i have to use something else maybe...


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Clamp everything tight and see what happens...if that still doesn't work...take the car to VF.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*


_Quote, originally posted by *abt cup* »_Clamp everything tight and see what happens...if that still doesn't work...take the car to VF.

i just drove home to Costa Mesa from LA and my car didnt cut off when coming to a stop like it usually does on long drives like the freeway... and its still using that rinkidink flex pipe that isnt very air tight.
i just got one of those HKS wannabe filters in the mail which is pretty shallow and i think will be able to fit under all that madness... ill see how that goes...


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## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

The throttle body does go through an adaptation period.
After I clear my ECU...on the first few stops...my RPMs will dip to the point of stalling.


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

yea thats what mine does but only after driving and boosting...
surprisingly it didnt cut off tonight.


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## SilverTrek12v (Dec 28, 2005)

*Re: (slc92)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slc92* »_
Ahh, didn't see the E-trim for the V2. I assume you are running lowered compression? Any #'s on this car? Track or dyno?
Surprisingly I get no noticeable slip w/ a 2.25" on the V9 w/ VF's single idler. I've heard alot of V1/V2 guys complain about slip w/ a 2.5" and dual idler. I'm guessing since the V9 is smaller it's easier to spin?


ya, slip with a 2.5 pulley all depends on the quality of the pulley, with c2pulley I had alot of slip and with vortech 2.5 no slip http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
At the start of the summer with stock intake mani, on a mustang dyno with a bad tune I dyno'ed 268whp, 223wtq at 12-13 psi and *8.5/1 cr *,th cr realy killed the power, would have been alot better with 10-10.5/1cr , finished the summer with 15psi 9/1 cr, good tune, no # but def over 300whp,


----------



## farfromugen (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (eurobred)*


_Quote, originally posted by *eurobred* »_yea thats what mine does but only after driving and boosting...
surprisingly it didnt cut off tonight.

Mine did the same thing for the first few times I drove it, only 3 times maybe total. I did have a half dead battery that died completely overnight a couple of times, probably clearing the ECU, so I agree with what abt cup said, it must go through an adaptation period. Hopefully you don't have any other issues


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (farfromugen)*

well i wedged up one of those shallow HKS look-a-like filters onto my MAF.
car still stalls out after boost. 
diverter valve is hooked up to the right place looks like.
there are 3 inlets on the CAI tube coming off of the charger. 2 of them towards the bottom and 1 a the top. 2 of them connect the DV, and one of them is for the breather correct?
maybe there is trapped air in the intake tube and it stalls it out?
i've already put 300+ miles on the kit. shouldnt still be stalling out...?


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## gtimagic (Feb 13, 2002)

does it stall when you come to a stop or just everytime after "hi boost" ?
Have you tried unplugging the ISV electrical harness ?


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (gtimagic)*

it lopes hard up and down at idle when driving normally.
after boost, when i come to a stop sometimes yes it stalls completely.
i have no tried unplugging the ISV system. wouldnt that make it not be able to idle?
everything is installed correctly.
some people are saying the diverter valve is recirculating air back intot he intake too close to the MAF, i dont understand if thats a problem, why does the kit come with such a short intake tube...
i talked to GINCH and Chris at C2, my MAF is fine, its not old, its not dirty, its gotta be the software... GIAC just isnt cutting it. eventually im gona go C2 and hope this problem goes away!


----------



## farfromugen (Dec 6, 2001)

*Re: (eurobred)*

its really odd your having so many issues...since you are in Cali, can you take a trip to VF and have them look at it in person? Might be worth it in the long run


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## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (farfromugen)*

yea i can make the drive but i've been talking to them.
my car has schrick 268 cams and might be leaning out on top anyway.
their chip is designed for a stock setup


----------



## abt cup (Aug 1, 2000)

*Re: (eurobred)*

I would take it to VF. It could be something very simple.
I'd rule out every possible issue before spending 300+ on new software.
I'd hate to spend the money on a C2 chip and still have the problem.


----------



## eurobred (Jun 10, 2005)

*Re: (abt cup)*

i was told to unplug the ISV plug and start the car, feather the throttle so it wont stall out, until it warms up, then it should idle and drive just fine. im gona try that today, also someone extended the tubing on their intake to be relocated on the driver's side, and said it ran fine after that...
but i dont have a welder so i cant make my own tubing to relocated/extend the tubing and MAF...


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## MR 2.GO (Apr 10, 2007)

*Re: (eurobred)*

Fixd it?


----------

