# ABA no spark, answer a few questions please?



## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

Ok, so I got a MK3 Jetta with no spark. How can I test the pick up coil in the distributor? Also how do I test these coils with an ohm meter? and parameters for that? Everything else on the car seems to be in good order, got power to the coil and the pick up coil, every things turning like it should, spark plugs and wires are recently new.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

codes?


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ps2375)*

don't have them, don't have a way to retrieve them


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

Without those and/or a Bently manual, it'll be tough to fix w/o throwing parts at it or wild guessing.


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## jetta09black (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

Does the tach needle bounce at all when you try and crank/start it? Like flutter or move up and down? Or does it just stay still and not move at all?


_Modified by jetta09black at 10:09 AM 12-29-2009_


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (jetta09black)*

I'm not sure yet, about to leave to go where the car is and mess with it some more. I will post in a bit.
And no you don't have to throw parts at it and you don't have to have a bentley, they are nice and all to have, but its not my car and I'm not going to buy a bentley for a car I don't own, and it can be done without one.


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## dan0954 (Mar 4, 2009)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ekulnoyl* »_ And no you don't have to throw parts at it and you don't have to have a bentley, they are nice and all to have, but its not my car and I'm not going to buy a bentley for a car I don't own, and it can be done without one.

It's true that you don't need these things, they are nice to have though. Maybe I missed it, but the year of the car would be nice. What if it's OBDI and the ECU relay is bad? Not all years were OBDI. 
There is a link to test the coil, but that's on my home computer so I can't supply it. There is also one for the hall sensor, but from what I've read the car should start with out one. I know mine ran with a bad one and it only caused a CEL.


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## ps2375 (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

GL


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (dan0954)*

its a 96, sorry, forgot to post that.


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## dan0954 (Mar 4, 2009)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

Should be OBDII then so no ECU relay. You said there was power to the coil, but is there power to the coil when cranking as that has happened a few times.
I'm guessing you pulled a plug and found no spark?


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (dan0954)*

yeah, pulled a plug, no spark. Power to the coil and hall sensor when key is on, haven't checked for power when cranking, I'm here at the car, but of course the battery is dead. So I'm waiting for my jump box to charge. Wheres the crank position sensor on this car?

oh and it is getting fuel, already checked that.


_Modified by ekulnoyl at 12:48 PM 12-29-2009_


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

Ok heres what happened with the car. She was driving down the road when a cat ran in front of her, the car stalled and then wouldn't start back up again. She also had problems with it just dieing while driving around before, but the car always started back up and ran.
After doing a little online research its starting to look like its the crank position sensor, what does it sound like to you guys?


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

and the tach needle doesn't move at all when I crank it for the person who asked.....


_Modified by ekulnoyl at 1:16 PM 12-29-2009_


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## zero. (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ekulnoyl* »_Ok heres what happened with the car. She was driving down the road when a cat ran in front of her, the car stalled and then wouldn't start back up again. She also had problems with it just dieing while driving around before, but the car always started back up and ran.
After doing a little online research its starting to look like its the crank position sensor, what does it sound like to you guys?

Definitely sounds like the crank position sensor. Girlfriend's car did the same thing. It would drive for 15 minutes and then die. Wait for it to cool down and it would start and drive fine again for 15 minutes and die. It would idle in park for as long as I wanted it to, but would die as soon as I opened the throttle.
Sensor is located on the block near the oil filter. Has a single allen bolt holding it in place. You'll have to remove the front engine mount/bracket and most likely the oil filter to get at it. Easy once that stuff is out of the way. 
BTW, you can test the sensor by disconnecting the ECU harness and checking resistance across pins 67 and 68. It should be between 500-700 ohms. Out of that range and it's bad.



_Modified by zero. at 4:21 PM 12-29-2009_


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (zero.)*

thanks man, I'll try that.
her symptoms sound a little different then some though, it would start right back up after dieing before, this time it didn't. Doesn't seem like it has anything to do with heat.... but I could be wrong, I'll check the resistance on the ECU harness.


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

got 770 ohms on the crank sensor, and its like 19 degrees here, think thats the problem?


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## BigFatDog (Apr 23, 2003)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

I've had 2 cars that behaved that way ... both needed new coils.


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## dan0954 (Mar 4, 2009)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ekulnoyl* »_got 770 ohms on the crank sensor, and its like 19 degrees here, think thats the problem?

I've read that if the crank sensor is bad that you will get no fuel. Here somewhere you said you had fuel. 


_Quote, originally posted by *tdogg74* »_If your Crank Position Sensor is defective, your car will NOT start. If the ECU doesnt receive a signal, it wont send a signal to the injectors to fire. This sensor is not your issue. 



_Modified by dan0954 at 12:15 AM 12-30-2009_


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## zero. (Aug 14, 2001)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (dan0954)*

If a crank sensor were bad you wouldn't get spark. If there's no spark, then I believe for safety, the fuel pump will shut off. You'd still be getting fuel if you just turned the ignition on during initial prime though. Car will definitely still start if a crank sensor were bad. It will just shut off once it starts sending a bad or no signal, which usually happens once the sensor gets hot. 
Being out of the range specified, I'd say it's probably bad, but it's not that much out of range. When my girl's was bad, it was reading close to 1000 ohms. 
Either the coil or crank sensor. Would be easier to troubleshoot if you could pull the codes. Here is a DIY for testing the coil: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3527387


_Modified by zero. at 9:30 AM 12-30-2009_


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## jetta09black (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ekulnoyl* »_and the tach needle doesn't move at all when I crank it for the person who asked.....

_Modified by ekulnoyl at 1:16 PM 12-29-2009_


Crank sensor.... it controls spark to the coil... if the tach doesnt move when cranking... you are looking at a Crank sesnor..


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (jetta09black)*

tach doesn't move at all when cranking
Car primes fuel, and then continues to pump fuel when cranking the car, I took the fuel line off, it pumped fuel out while cranking
crank sensor is a bit out of range
will be checking the coil hopefully today or tomorrow, will post the results when I do


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

so the coil was reading 900 ohms on the power to ground side of the coil, and 2900 ohms from power or ground side to spark plug wire connector....
770 ohms on the crank position sensor
wouldn't these numbers most likely climb at running temp? Both the coil and crank position sensor seem to be a bit out on the numbers, thinkin I should just tell her to replace both, what do you guys think?


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## jorge r (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

you have no spark at the spark pug wire, how about the coil wire? it makes a world of a difference if the distributor rotor or cap are not passing spark.
without the crankshaft position sensor signal there won't be coil spark and fuel injector signal, both coil and injector depend on the crank sensor signal.
Ohming the coil is incomplete, the coil has electronics in it, the ignition control module.
A test light is used to check the signal to the coil and to the fuel injector, an led. The led has a resistance in series to sense 12 volts, led normaly work on 2 volts range, full 12 volts burns them out. Pick one up at Radio Shack rated for 12 volts and good to go.
*ignition system*








*testing after internal control module*








*test harnes for ECU signal*








You can also use the led to test for injector signal from ECU, check for disconnected connector plugs. Avoid cat crossings


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (jorge r)*

did all that, and I bypassed the ignition control module by popping off the little cover and checking the actual coil, I didn't go through the ignition control module. I'm using a volt meter also, not a test light, the coil and the crank position sensor have power. I'm not sure if the injectors are firing, I only made sure that the fuel rail is getting fuel.


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## jorge r (Apr 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (ekulnoyl)*

the signal to the injectors and the ignition control module is in miliseconds, too quick for a volt merer to sense, a fast acting test light is needed. 
There was a recent situation where this fellow had a hard time with ignition spark, after some time looking, he found faulty wiring connector jack to the ignition coil. 
Track it down, it's all it takes


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## jetta09black (Mar 12, 2009)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (jorge r)*

He should be able to know if the injectors are firing by pulling a couple plugs, easiest would be #1 and #4 that will also let you know if fuel is filling the entire rail... pull those plugs and see if they are wet or dry, if they are wet dry them off and put them back in and put the plug wires back on and crank the car over a few times... pull the same two plugs.. if you have wet gas soaked plugs the injectors are firing.


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## ekulnoyl (Jan 27, 2006)

*Re: ABA no spark, answer a few questions please? (jetta09black)*

ok, I will see if I can make it over to the car tomorrow and pull the plugs and check that out.
I use to have a LED check light that was 12 volt rated, will see if its in my tool box, and do check over with it too


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