# so i dyno'd my car today to get a baseline.



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

i made 434whp with a super conservative tune at 25PSI. with minor tweaking made 466whp. then installed my 044 LPFP setup and gained another 52whp totaling 518whp. sadly this is with the OEM 60mm TB. 70mm is going in once i get it from INA.

setup consists of:

HTA35R
FFE 1.5 tube manifold
RS4 injectors
APR HPFP
custom tune mafless tune running 129.99 FRP 7800 redline 
CTS prototype S3 style IC
044 LPFP
HEP intake mani


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

70mm throttle body, race fuel, and retune numbers coming soon.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

What was your timing with this "conservative" tune ?

And you don't mention what fuel (or w/m ?)

EDIT: You made 518 whp with just RS4 injectors ??? :sly:


----------



## digix (Jan 24, 2005)

Well this definitely inspires me with desire, now to inherit and/or acquire a small fortune.


----------



## digix (Jan 24, 2005)

based off his other posts I'm assuming he running that secondary fuel rail, with watermeth intake manifold.


----------



## yvrnycracer (Apr 17, 2007)

*FV-QR*

holy crap... nice work!


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> What was your timing with this "conservative" tune ? *0* for the 434 run.*
> 
> And you don't mention what fuel (or w/m ?) *pump gas. No meth.*
> 
> EDIT: You made 518 whp with just RS4 injectors ??? :sly: *yes*.


 


digix said:


> based off his other posts I'm assuming he running that secondary fuel rail, with watermeth intake manifold.


No. Still haven't wired up the injectors and NO METH.


----------



## yvrnycracer (Apr 17, 2007)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> No. Still haven't wired up the injectors and NO METH.


WOW...


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

So basically the whole notion of the limits of the RS4 injector just goes out the
window ?? :what:


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Correct. 

They're def capable of 500whp on pump gas with the proper supporting hardware and tuning.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> Correct.
> 
> They're def capable of 500whp on pump gas with the proper supporting hardware and tuning.


I would really be interested to hear what the professionals have to say to that.

All this TFSI story seems like it's full of holes...

One day we need a catch can, the next we don't..One day the follower destroys itself, the next
people show 50000 miles + followers in very good condition.

One day the RS4's are not enough,the next you make 518whp on pump...

WTH is going on ??

Could it be there is nothing wrong with this engine, it's just that people don't know how to tune it ??


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Could it be there is nothing wrong with this engine, it's just that people don't know how to tune it ??


That's the exact problem. I had a pro over look my tune and dial a few things for me that weren't perfect and that we're beyond my understanding.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> That's the exact problem. I had a pro over look my tune and dial a few things for me that weren't perfect and that we're beyond my understanding.


Well it's not a secret tuning (especially software) is not easy...

But it's just another example that things are not always what they seem, and
sometimes inefficiencies give out the wrong picture and ruin it for everybody....

And as always if there is no money to be made the amount of work needed to make something
right is never gonna be put into it.So like [email protected] put it the other day...."The percentage of the tuning market looking to even do an upgraded turbo is tiny, the percent of that crowd looking to go bigger and bigger is even smaller. That is not necessarily our target audience and we never said it was."

Meaning....you are on your own people.....


----------



## rracerguy717 (Apr 8, 2003)

GolfRS said:


> I would really be interested to hear what the professionals have to say to that.
> 
> All this TFSI story seems like it's full of holes...
> 
> ...


 Its all about fuel pressure you can make the injector flow 30-50 more with higher pressure. There two big problems that hold back the fsi the number 1 being the complete fuel system the second is me9 is the tuning calibration strategy IMO. You need a good tuner that knows how to work around this. I have a good idea who is helping John and he is very smart guy and been Tuning VAG cars for years. Congrad John. Bob. G. :thumbup:


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

rracerguy717 said:


> Its all about fuel pressure you can make the injector flow 30-50 more with higher pressure. There to big problems that hold back the fsi the number 1 being the complete fuel system the second is me9 is the tuning calibration strategy IMO. You need a good tuner that knows how to work around this. I have a good idea who is helping John and he is very smart guy and been Tuning VAG cars for years. Congrad John. Bob. G. :thumbup:


Raising rail pressure is always an option, that's no secret either, but if you read his post
he clearly states he is running "standard" 130 bar pressure...So whatever did the trick,
this wasn't it....

I also believe tuning plays a big role on things, but the difference in output is THAT BIG
that someone would have to be completely ignorant to mess things up to the point
someone else makes 100+whp out of the same injectors.... :screwy:


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

unwired aux injectors










and no meth nozzle in the meth ports on my mani


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

rracerguy717 said:


> Its all about fuel pressure you can make the injector flow 30-50 more with higher pressure. There two big problems that hold back the fsi the number 1 being the complete fuel system the second is me9 is the tuning calibration strategy IMO. You need a good tuner that knows how to work around this. I have a good idea who is helping John and he is very smart guy and been Tuning VAG cars for years. Congrad John. Bob. G. :thumbup:


no shame in my game. TO and Gonzo are the ones helping with my tune. those guys are geniuses and make all tuners (with the exception of APR) look like child's play. LOL. they have helped define all 151 maps within the MED9 when most tuners are defining and modding a dozen if that.



GolfRS said:


> Raising rail pressure is always an option, that's no secret either, but if you read his post
> he clearly states he is running "standard" 130 bar pressure...So whatever did the trick,
> this wasn't it....
> 
> ...


129.99 bar to be exact. 

70MM TB is going in next weekend and we'll be raising the fuel rail pressure to 140, then 145, and lastly 149.99 to see what its truly the max for the RS4s on 93oct. we will then tune in timing for 100 oct and 30 PSI.

i dont see an issue with us hitting 600whp on 93 pump oct fuel.

please keep in mind that this is all being done on a bone stock head. once INA releases their solid lifter head ill be tearing down the head and finally incorportating the auxiliary fuel system.


----------



## digix (Jan 24, 2005)

Thanks for taking the time to share all of this with us. One day I do hope to push the limits of my car as you are now, It's helpful to see what others are able to do.


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

imagine if you tuned for e85.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

did you overlay mine and yours dyno graph on eds dyno?
What was the boost at on the 500whp run.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Nope. Although next time I'm at the shop I'll have them do that to see the differences in power band.

25PSI. I kept spinning the wheels on the dyno between 66-6800 RPM. we had 4 200 pound guys on it too. I'm sure I was hitting 600, we just couldn't get the thing to grab. Road tuning really left my tires useless.  

I should be back on the dyno real soon. Going to try my 145 bar file and more timing, hoping this larger TB helps. Keeping the boost at 25psi. 

Cross your fingers for 600. 

I'll be doing race numbers on the dyno day on 05/05/12. Bring the turbo R and I'll get the sombreros. Lol


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Krieger said:


> imagine if you tuned for e85.


E85 isn't so DI friendly.


----------



## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

Congrats John :beer:
You've just gave many MK5 drivers a new light on these cars. :thumbup:


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> E85 isn't so DI friendly.


then someone needs to find out how to make it work. i want to run E85 or M85 as soon as we get more stations around here.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

MFZERO said:


> Congrats John :beer:
> You've just gave many MK5 drivers a new light on these cars. :thumbup:


thanks:beer:



Krieger said:


> then someone needs to find out how to make it work. i want to run E85 or M85 as soon as we get more stations around here.


the MS3/6 guys are running into many issues with prlong use with e85. injector failure and HPFP "geling"

i ran tank once upon a time and didnt have any issues, but i dont want this car to be the ginuea pig for that experiment. LOL


----------



## Krieger (May 5, 2009)

maybe the injector failures are from running them more to hit requested flow?

as for the HPFP, i dont quite understand how it would gel, so ill need to look that up.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

Might want to check this out too

http://www.hitachi.com/ICSFiles/afieldfile/2009/12/25/r2009_07_111.pdf


----------



## derekjl (Jun 24, 2006)

Any video?


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

derekjl said:


> Any video?


Soon.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

:laugh: 

650whp or bust. Id be willing to make the trip to make this happen


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:





RaraK69 said:


> :laugh:
> 
> 650whp or bust. Id be willing to make the trip to make this happen


 Let's make it happen. I'm getting a .82 housing to bring down EGTs and this new 70mm TB is going to help air flow to squeeze a bit more. Gonzo's 145 bar fuel map is helping some more according to my butt dyno.


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

rracerguy717 said:


> Its all about fuel pressure you can make the injector flow 30-50 more with higher pressure. There two big problems that hold back the fsi the number 1 being the complete fuel system the second is me9 is the tuning calibration strategy IMO. You need a good tuner that knows how to work around this. I have a good idea who is helping John and he is very smart guy and been Tuning VAG cars for years. Congrad John. Bob. G. :thumbup:


 Thats completely correct. John has been tuning tuning tuning for months and playing with the fuel system. I would find these numbers unbelievable if i didnt know him. 

The hardware isnt always the limitation. These ecus are fickle bicthes and dont like a lot of ****. Ive officially given up on the med9 to work with bare minimum hardware unless you can crack the ecu yourself like he did. 

Johns HUGE advantage is that he writes his own files. He can ignore whatever sensor he wants and doesnt let the ecu start to freak out like what happens to me. There are other ways to keep the ecu happy other then cracking it, its to throw it into the garbage  

A big :thumbup: goes to John for not letting these big tuners let this platform become obsolete.


----------



## eatmorice (May 8, 2009)

IMAN973 said:


> A big :thumbup: goes to John for not letting these big tuners let this platform become obsolete.


 Amen.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

who said you need to deconstruct the maps to make power? Eurodyne is opening up more and more maps... so if you understand how to tune the tables you can achieve the same effect. 

regardless, keep it up john, i expect to see some passes this year!


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

mrbikle said:


> who said you need to deconstruct the maps to make power? Eurodyne is opening up more and more maps... so if you understand how to tune the tables you can achieve the same effect.
> 
> regardless, keep it up john, i expect to see some passes this year!


 I didnt know the maestro could change the hard code due to not using the stock lpfp  
Or do antilag/boost by gear/or delete bs sensors that cause issues for no reason. If you honestly think the maestro is the best thing then you got another thing coming. The maestro is nothing compared to hondata and hondata is nothing compared to motec. Fk it takes 15-20 minutes to read and write the files and you need to do it 10+ times for a dyno tune. 

If you knew the capabilities of this motor and how much these "tunes" are holding us back then you would understand. Hell John made more power then Jeff did and didnt use meth or a race file. Just think he destroyed well built cars numbers with just a tune a pump and a fpr. He still has plenty of room to go as well. 

This is the second post you tried to correct me with less experience then what i have. I was the first outside of Chris and Arnold to have the maestro on a med9 which was 18 or so months ago. I very well know how the program works. Ive had giac revo tapp and maestro, and all were fine but definitely not race tunes. I would not use them on a car looking to make serious power. The maestro for the med7 is way more advanced then the med9 version and there isnt anyone making the power im going for or run the times im looking to run. 

Dont get me wrong, if someone did not go so extreme as i did then it could work in the 500 range but after that your going to have to mickey mouse different computers to get it to the same quality of a sem tune. And if you wanted to get a drag quality tune then you would need other electrical components to make the car efficient. 

If you have a personal problem with me please pm me like you did before and we can work it out again. Maybe you didnt elaborate as much as you should have but believe me i know these engines and computers very well.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

IMAN973 said:


> I didnt know the maestro could change the hard code due to not using the stock lpfp
> Or do antilag/boost by gear/or delete bs sensors that cause issues for no reason. If you honestly think the maestro is the best thing then you got another thing coming. The maestro is nothing compared to hondata and hondata is nothing compared to motec. Fk it takes 15-20 minutes to read and write the files and you need to do it 10+ times for a dyno tune.
> 
> If you knew the capabilities of this motor and how much these "tunes" are holding us back then you would understand. Hell John made more power then Jeff did and didnt use meth or a race file. Just think he destroyed well built cars numbers with just a tune a pump and a fpr. He still has plenty of room to go as well.
> ...


 
why would you need to change the hard coding for the LPFP unless youre trying to drive an auxilery + OEM. The PWM needs to be retained due to how bosch engineered the flow dynamics of the fueling system. 

We have been having success with boost by gear via a stand alone controller.... not ideal, but it achieves the same effect. Load building can also be achieved with timing and ignition modifications, and its not as hard on your coilpacks. 

I am fully aware that this software is not as good as hondata or other standalones/piggybacks, but with the proper knowledge of sensors, bosch systems, and fluid dynamics... the same end result can be had. 

John is going further then most of us have before in terms of deconstruction of maps, and rewriting tables.... and that should be commended, but once most of these tables are defined, and they have been, there isnt really a need, unless you are writing out functionality or evap crap. 

The point of my post was so people didnt think that this process cant be reproduced 90% without writing hex. There are ways to still do it, even if you consider them 'workarounds'. 

also, what times are you looking to run and wheres the state of your car? I just got mine back together from a keyway failure.


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

mrbikle said:


> why would you need to change the hard coding for the LPFP unless youre trying to drive an auxilery + OEM. The PWM needs to be retained due to how bosch engineered the flow dynamics of the fueling system.


 *NOT TRUE* Your looking at it from a pw standpoint. Thats not the issue im talking about. Engineered flow dynamics:banghead: Using big words doesnt make the standard pw any harder to understand. The system is uber easy to understand its the bosch safeguards that suck. 



mrbikle said:


> We have been having success with boost by gear via a stand alone controller.... *not ideal*, but it achieves the same effect. Load building can also be achieved with timing and ignition modifications, and its not as hard on your coilpacks.
> 
> I am fully aware that this software is not as good as hondata or other standalones/piggybacks, but with the proper knowledge of sensors, bosch systems, and fluid dynamics... the same end result can be had.


 *not even close* Again you only have a little adjustablity. YOU CANT DELETE SAFEGUARDS PERIOD 



mrbikle said:


> John is going further then most of us have before in terms of deconstruction of maps, and rewriting tables.... and that should be commended, but once most of these tables are defined, and they have been, there isnt really a need, unless you are writing out functionality or evap crap.


 Again not even close to what im talking about. Evap was the least of my worries. As long as its plugged it the ecu isnt the wiser. Same goes for the intake flaps. 



mrbikle said:


> The point of my post was so people didnt think that this process cant be reproduced 90% without writing hex. There are ways to still do it, even if you consider them 'workarounds'.


 Again.... you think 500 hp with meth is still easy? If it was then everyone would have done what jeff did 3 or so years ago on a gt30  

What has John did that no one has done yet? What makes his car so special? O yea a cracked ecu.... 



mrbikle said:


> also, what times are you looking to run and wheres the state of your car? I just got mine back together from a keyway failure.


 WOW another one of those when is your car done speeches. Congrats your number 5 today. Not that i have to explain myself to you but ill say it for the groupies that watch my every post... I love building these cars and doing things no one has even thought of. I ordered my SEM last week and i plan to rip out the oem electronics as soon as it gets here and start on the harness. After i get some baselines ill hit the egt limit of my mani and redo my setup. In the meantime, im saving up for the 4 speed dog box ive been looking at. I hope you understand the money involved in doing this which is another reason why i take my time. The sem is over 5 stacks and the dog box is about the same, not including axles which are another 1500. As you can see going big isnt quick easy or cheap. 

Bottom line is lack of tuning has caused this platform to get a bad rep. John has pretty much full access to the ecu which lets him do this. The maestro cant come close. Maybe after the promises and hopes become faded you will understand where im coming from. I thought the same you do until i tried to go big with little to no adjustability of the maestro. 

I wish you the best but your concept of reality is a little off. All those controllers you are using, do not communicate with each other and with every adjustment on one you need to adjust the others as well. It will work id say at 80% efficiency because look at sergio. He made 250hp+ over injector limit just on a 90 dollar surflow pump so id imagine with real controllers you may make good times but not the times that you would if John did your tune.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

sure buddy. good luck with your build.


----------



## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

Why not run a B8 S4 TB?


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

mrbikle said:


> sure buddy. good luck with your build.


 I dont mean to come across harsh but im just defending what i said. Im not the best there is nor do i know everything its actually the contrary, but i do know what issues i ran into. No word of mouth or speculating, just facts of the issues i hit. 

On the other cars we built, we ran into issues with the limits of hondata and other ecus that are way better the the maestro. On one car we gained 100hp after rebuilding the engine and it only went 9.9s when it went 10.1s before. Its all about the tune and how the power comes in. Needless to say SEM is in the car now. 

*I would suggest for ANYONE looking for a race car tune, should hire John to do it. Sure he'd have to go with you to the track a few times to set up the launch control but its still better then using 8 different computers (which has no redundancy) to get down the track. * 

On another note i think you and tms have made some great passes to date. Im genuinely looking forward to see what you guys do in the future. :beer:


----------



## One Bad MKV (Jul 27, 2010)

very nice wish i had the funds to do somthing like this


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

Boosted2003! said:


> Why not run a B8 S4 TB?


 i think they are close to a grand


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

Boosted2003! said:


> Why not run a B8 S4 TB?


 Can you actually run any TB you like ?

Is that even compatible ?

AFAIK Issam has a 70 and 75mm one for sale, that i guess is fully compatible.


----------



## [email protected] (Jun 24, 2009)

GolfRS said:


> Can you actually run any TB you like ?
> 
> Is that even compatible ?
> 
> AFAIK Issam has a 70 and 75mm one for sale, that i guess is fully compatible.


 What price does he get for the 70?


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Find a GM throttle body to suit your needs, specifically on the v8 end of things....hmm maybe look at some caddy's and SUV' they seem to share the same class of ecu (MEx9)  


Maestro is great for 90% of people, then there the 10% like john that are go big or go home. Maestro does a ton of things in the 1.8t world b/c its old, launch control/antilag, NLS, thats all extra functions coded in with open source, or freely available tools to compile new code. There is not such YET for med9 that i know of, but im waiting to get cracking on that when i spend the $$ or its free . Those compilers are usually free after the life of the processor is up. 


It blows my mind that more people dont tune these ecu's....really does. Its moderately simple if you know me7 or can tune maestro well. Hell ive already put the factory documentation(FDEF) and .A2l files online somewhere to freely download. Still no ones interested and complains about the platform's lack of tuning solutions. I can think of a few people in the US that will custom tune MED9 to full potential, but no one looks, so whatever. 

GolfRS arent you from accross the pond? i know you tried out some US based stuff, but why not hit up some of those tuners in europe? i know of some off hand that are amazing amazing amazing at what they do. 

Cant wait to see this car break 600whp


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

RaraK69 said:


> GolfRS arent you from accross the pond? i know you tried out some US based stuff, but why not hit up some of those tuners in europe? i know of some off hand that are amazing amazing amazing at what they do.
> 
> Cant wait to see this car break 600whp


 Well that is the plan, and i already have someone in mind.

I'm just BSing with the Revo software at the moment trying to slightly stress the car and
see if it needs some uprated hardware before i end up on a dyno with the programmer
complaining that the car doesn't have enough fuel, or "it's a hardware issue".

I am also a firm believer that most of the software providers haven't really bothered to
go deeper into MED9 programming, and most of the issues supposedly caused by an
inefficient platform might end up being sloppy programming.... :thumbdown:


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

GolfRS said:


> I am also a firm believer that most of the software providers haven't really bothered to
> go deeper into MED9 programming, and most of the issues supposedly caused by an
> inefficient platform might end up being sloppy programming.... :thumbdown:


 There you go! I 100% agree with you on this, they kinda got a good number and walked away to newer things. 

I think there are some reasons to this. The 2.0tfsi platform is still new in my eyes, if you go into any 1.8t forum, its chock full of my big turbo build info. Everyone and there mother builds a big turbo. Tuners see that and continually work with it, 1.8t engines have been around in the states for about 10 years too! FSI's....eh 4 years lol. 

Once i think the 2.0t's become the "new" 1.8t's in a few years when mk5's are costing $5-7k USD, kids will start picking them up and doing some serious work. Its just in comparison, tuners dont have a need to really dig into something that does not have a huge demand in the grand scheme of things. 

I could spend hours writing a tune for a 600whp car, but how many people is that tune going to work out for? .....1-3 people at most at a given time. Just not worth it when people expect to pay ~$700 USD for a "big turbo" tune, which is just a standard tune with a few more maps raised than a stg2+ file.........and a few maps for injectors and startup which were copied from a euro file


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

RaraK69 said:


> Hell ive already put the factory documentation(FDEF) and .A2l files online somewhere to freely download.


  

great resources btw.


----------



## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> What price does he get for the 70?


 $499 plus core


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

GolfRS said:


> Can you actually run any TB you like ?
> 
> Is that even compatible ?
> 
> AFAIK Issam has a 70 and 75mm one for sale, that i guess is fully compatible.


 The issue again is the ecu. The orientation of the flapper is reversed from the traditional platforms. Even if you reverse polarity, it wont work. Sam has been playing with these things for a while on and off to get us a solid upgrade.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 30, 2007)

GolfRS said:


> Can you actually run any TB you like ?
> 
> Is that even compatible ?
> 
> AFAIK Issam has a 70 and 75mm one for sale, that i guess is fully compatible.


 Here at Ina we like to provide the best quality parts there are. Unfortunately there just isnt one available thats up to our high standards. We have a variety of oem compatiable units that are larger than stock and will adapt but they still have the failure prone plastic plates. 

With that being said, we also want to provide you guys with upgrades that let you unleash the most hp possible. If you want a larger tb and are willing to run the risk breaking it, feel free to email us and ill get you squared away. Just remember we are working on a true quality replacement but there is no eta as of now.


----------



## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Here at Ina we like to provide the best quality parts there are. Unfortunately there just isnt one available thats up to our high standards. We have a variety of oem compatiable units that are larger than stock and will adapt but they still have the failure prone plastic plates.
> 
> With that being said, we also want to provide you guys with upgrades that let you unleash the most hp possible. If you want a larger tb and are willing to run the risk breaking it, feel free to email us and ill get you squared away. Just remember we are working on a true quality replacement but there is no eta as of now.


 So what you're selling is just an oem peice with a plastic plate which isn't really an upgrade other than being larger? correct?


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

loudgli said:


> So what you're selling is just an oem peice with a plastic plate which isn't really an upgrade other than being larger? correct?


 AFAIK it's a metal plate upgrade i'm guessing from a TFSI core.

That would guarantee the compatibility with the ECU.

As far as larger plastic units...i thought there aren't any.

Please provide some part numbers if you think otherwise.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

All of the plastic plate TBs break. I have a box of a dozen broken ones lying around somewhere. (I didn't forget about you IMAN973). 

I'm holding out for that INA billet 70 and 75MM TBs they're making.


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 30, 2007)

loudgli said:


> So what you're selling is just an oem peice with a plastic plate which isn't really an upgrade other than being larger? correct?


 We have done EXTENSIVE r&d on these and after a few crates of non-compatible tbs(thousands of dollars worth), we discovered which work and which dont. Unfortunately they are oem units that still have the plastic plates. 

Having a larger cross sectional area is an upgrade. Have a look at this tech post Issam wrote 2 years ago on the subject.:thumbup: 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4690902


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> We have done EXTENSIVE r&d on these and after a few crates of non-compatible tbs(thousands of dollars worth), we discovered which work and which dont. Unfortunately they are oem units that still have the plastic plates.
> 
> Having a larger cross sectional area is an upgrade. Have a look at this tech post Issam wrote 2 years ago on the subject.:thumbup:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4690902


 Hmmm...Dunno why people say they break.

I haven't had any issues with mine.

Or maybe you guys are referring to W/M usage and plastic TB's.

Btw, are those OEM compatible TB's in stock ??

And what is the price difference.

P.S. Although it would be better to get a metal one and be done with it....


----------



## loudgli (Aug 3, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> We have done EXTENSIVE r&d on these and after a few crates of non-compatible tbs(thousands of dollars worth), we discovered which work and which dont. Unfortunately they are oem units that still have the plastic plates.
> 
> Having a larger cross sectional area is an upgrade. Have a look at this tech post Issam wrote 2 years ago on the subject.:thumbup:
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?4690902


 now Im confused. 

Issam said your 70 & 75mm throttles had metal plates and a throttle shaft seal to prevent w/m issues? 

John sorry to thread jack!


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

loudgli said:


> now Im confused.
> 
> Issam said your 70 & 75mm throttles had metal plates and a throttle shaft seal to prevent w/m issues?
> 
> John sorry to thread jack!


.



[email protected] said:


> Here at Ina we like to provide the best quality parts there are. *Unfortunately there just isnt one available thats up to our high standards. *We have a variety of oem compatiable units that are larger than stock and will adapt but they still have the failure prone plastic plates.
> 
> With that being said, we also want to provide you guys with upgrades that let you unleash the most hp possible. If you want a larger tb and are willing to run the risk breaking it, feel free to email us and ill get you squared away. *Just remember we are working on a true quality replacement but there is no eta as of now.*


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

I ran a 70mm plastic TB a little while ago and destroyed it while loggin and road tuning. 

I've since switched to an INA metal 70mm. This thing is robust and will def last compared to the OEM junk. 

Sorry INA, I know I wasn't suppose to leak that out.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

I have yet to break one, what conditions are they failing

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


----------



## kevin160 (Nov 16, 2009)

I had a TB break on me at about 50k. The only mods I had at the time were an air intake and full exhaust. I didn't have a flash then either.


----------



## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

As with "all things TFSI" like the cam follower and sporadic failures, i think we should
take into consideration possible differences in providers.

I mean sure VDO is VDO but what if there are manufacturing plant differences or
even faulty series that might be prone to fail ??

I also had an "A" cam for 40k miles and i took it out looking brand new....

There seem to be to many variables to generalize a failing part.


----------



## MKII420 (Jul 18, 2003)

that's awesome!! now that my car's paid off i think i'm going to start saving up and do some tuning...


----------



## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

MKII420 said:


> that's awesome!! now that my car's paid off i think i'm going to start saving up and do some tuning...


come to the dyno day to get some inspiration...


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

donjuan1jr said:


> come to the dyno day to get *more* inspiration...


Fixed


----------



## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> Fixed


yesss lots of inspiration, I took the jump, drove up by John (good times) and told him to do his magic cause I didnt believe him, I drove my car home, crazy now much just a tune can make
you love your car again... honestly. no other tune compares that I have seen personally, I've been in a uni car, I've had revo with all problems.. aprs, all safe low powered tunes. (I'm running a 30/71 blah blah..) the car has really woken up.


----------



## [email protected] Performance (Jul 20, 2011)

I think people don't give us little guys enough credit sometimes (whether hobbyists or your local tuner). Most of us little guys tune because its our passion, not to just profit off a mediocre base file. There is definitely still a lot to be yet explored on the TFSI platform. Heck, even on the 1.8T platform there is still people trying new things every day. I plan to completely dive into the the TFSI platform once I finish the projects I am working on the 1.8T.

Here is a :beer: to everyone who gives it their best and is willing to try new things and push it to the limit in the name of R&D (and maybe some fun ). :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


----------



## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

:thumbup:


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> I think people don't give us little guys enough credit sometimes (whether hobbyists or your local tuner). Most of us little guys tune because its our passion, not to just profit off a mediocre base file. There is definitely still a lot to be yet explored on the TFSI platform. Heck, even on the 1.8T platform there is still people trying new things every day. I plan to completely dive into the the TFSI platform once I finish the projects I am working on the 1.8T.
> 
> Here is a :beer: to everyone who gives it their best and is willing to try new things and push it to the limit in the name of R&D (and maybe some fun ). :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Gonzo, 2012 is going to be our year to shine and bring back the TFSI as a high HP contender.


----------



## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

amen


----------



## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

Man i just threw johns tune on the car, and holy ****....


----------



## AlianomkV (Feb 17, 2007)

donjuan1jr said:


> Man i just threw johns tune on the car, and holy ****....


so señor


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

lets see a dyno of johns tune on your car, no slipping this time.


----------



## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

mrbikle said:


> lets see a dyno of johns tune on your car, no slipping this time.


link in my sig.


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

donjuan1jr said:


> link in my sig.


opcorn:


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

heh, popcorn indeed

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


----------



## MFZERO (Mar 13, 2002)

who's bringing the Corona's?


----------



## donjuan1jr (Oct 8, 2008)

It was a semi inside joke with john...he laughed.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TD57DBsAfws&feature=youtu.be
> 
> nylon straps were damaged on this run.
> 
> ...


video up. anyone know how to make this video embeded?


----------



## 18T_BT (Sep 15, 2005)

[No message]


----------



## IMAN973 (Jun 1, 2006)

I see aux injectors, i call bs :laugh:


----------



## Bayer-GTi (Jul 4, 2010)

Just wondering, and this may be because of the Domestic Muscle crowd I've been hanging around with for the past 12 years, but is there a reason that Dyno sheet is Uncorrected for the correction factor? Why not SAE correction? Some tuners will show you a Uncorrected sheet to kind of "WOW" you into believeing their work was worth the money. I haggled with my last tuner for an SAE graph to find out he only gained me a couple HP. Guy was a rip-off. Screw it, I taught myself how to tune.


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

I'll get uncorrected and SAE #s next time around.


----------



## MissUnderstood (Nov 9, 2011)

CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi said:


> 70mm throttle body, race fuel, and retune numbers coming soon.


Why is this dyno all EFFed up after 6800 to 7000 all the way to red line 7800? That looks terrible! Looks like you ran outta fuel or huge knock or something.


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

MissUnderstood said:


> Why is this dyno all EFFed up after 6800 to 7000 all the way to red line 7800? That looks terrible! Looks like you ran outta fuel or huge knock or something.


yea thats why fuel pressure will be increased on next run. car was running out of fuel which caused a knock situation as well.


----------



## MissUnderstood (Nov 9, 2011)

Pretty much figured that seeing as how the 500hp dyno started a lil earlier than.the rest of them. Thought I'd ask anyways


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

MissUnderstood said:


> Why is this dyno all EFFed up after 6800 to 7000 all the way to red line 7800? That looks terrible! Looks like you ran outta fuel or huge knock or something.


You are correct. This dyno was just to find the limits of the OEM LPFP and the RS4s at 129.99 bar FRP. 

The OEM LPFP max, I mean *MAX*, is 450whp ish. So i'd say the safe zone is about 400whp with a decent tune. The absolute max for the RS4s at 129.99 bar is 500whp on pump gas. I'd say the safe zone for the RS4s are 450whp at 129.99 bar. 

We were also experiencing wheelspin.  



RaraK69 said:


> yea thats why fuel pressure will be increased on next run. car was running out of fuel which caused a knock situation as well.


You've said too much already. The ninja monkeys will tell all
Of our secrets. Next you'll leak out our new injector on of timing under WOT secret. 

LOL.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

W did 490whp with stock lpfp. All depends on fueling strategy

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


----------



## Tmsracing37 (Aug 25, 2008)

mrbikle said:


> W did 490whp with stock lpfp. All depends on fueling strategy
> 
> Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


Kind of wrong about the 490 whp on sololy a stock pump. Yeah we did use a stock pump, but we also used w/m


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

True... I can't be held accountable for anything I say while staying at an all inclusive resort... Pretty sure my liver has given up.

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

IV been trying to do a liver delete mod since 2000. Lol. Last time they drew blood from me it came out with a head on it.


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

Lol

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk


----------



## siren001 (Nov 6, 2009)

subscribed


----------



## integragsr423 (Sep 12, 2008)

CAn someone tell me how much I could expect to spend to get build damn near close to that..lol I only want 400 horses


----------



## RaraK69 (Jan 16, 2001)

Call up CTS tell Clay you want 400whp 2.0tfsi kit and all the bits, then call up doTuning and get the tune thats designed around CTS's hardware, find yourself very happy :laugh:


----------



## integragsr423 (Sep 12, 2008)

Cool guys I will definitely keep you guys updated for this build..Lol want a daily driver thats capable of running 11's


----------



## mrbikle (Jul 2, 2005)

speaking of which, what happened to the car/build


----------



## CarSwapper (Feb 25, 2003)

integragsr423 said:


> CAn someone tell me how much I could expect to spend to get build damn near close to that..lol I only want 400 horses


 Buy mine for 18k it will cost you around 20k in parts no labor HEHEHEHE


----------



## bryangb (Jun 16, 2010)

opcorn:


----------



## CoNGLoMeRaTeGTi (Apr 4, 2007)

mrbikle said:


> speaking of which, what happened to the car/build


 A the engine for a lighter weighing setup. Still a 2008cc engine, using FSI, and using stock ECU. 

WHOLE NEW TUNE THOUGH!!


----------



## garabins (Jun 29, 2010)

.doTuning FTW, IDK if everyone has a similar tune (rods or not) but Iv been running johns tune hard for 7k @ 20psi on a stock bottom end (made 350whp and 300wtq on a mustang dyno) and it hasn't blown up yet, turns on every day, and I've had absolutely no issues with the car (knock on wood) :thumbup::thumbup:


----------

