# Forge FSI Diverter Valve Spacer Dyno Test Results



## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

As per the request of many individuals, we have conducted a run of basic dyno testing to show that our valve spacer product does not cause a loss of any actual "performance" (power) as compared to not having the spacer installed at all.
These dyno runs were conducted on a 2005 MKV GTI 2.0T FSI 5-door in the UK. This car has over 20K miles on the clock, is tuned with O.CT tuning software, has a 2.5" turbo-back exhaust, and has had our spacer installed from about 5K miles onward.
The car was removed from the dyno to adjust the valve between each pull, so any variations shown are from restrapping the car to the dyno. No other modifications were made between each pull.
Draw your own conclusions from the graphs below:
Red Graph - Fully Atmospheric
Purple Graph - 50/50
Green Graph - Fully Recirculating
Any loss of power would be as the sole result of improper installation or some other anomoly within the system and not from our spacer. 
Horsepower








Torque










_Modified by [email protected] at 1:21 PM 6-8-2006_


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## blackmkv (Apr 3, 2006)

so what this shows is that the DV actually helps besides making noise?


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## Binary Star (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: (blackmkv)*

so what is O.CT tuning software? only available in UK? cuz those are pretty numbers... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW do you know what kind of dyno was used for this?


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## iThread (Sep 27, 2005)

*Re: (JettaDude101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaDude101* »_so what is O.CT tuning software? only available in UK? cuz those are pretty numbers... http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
BTW do you know what kind of dyno was used for this?

stratmosphere.com is the main distributor of OC.T software


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## ForgeMotorsport (Nov 16, 2000)

We also have O.CT software programming at our Orlando office .


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: (ForgeMotorsport)*

Look like a MAHA dyno printout and if that's the case then those should be crank numbers not wheel numbers. Maybe Forge can confirm. cheers! Mike


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## narrowAngleSix (Mar 30, 2004)

so from what i see, more tq / hp _with_ the spacer? 

...nice #'s


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (narrowAngleSix)*

We will hopefully soon also be offering O.CT software here in the US as we have been doing so in the UK for quite some time.
I believe the dyno used was, in fact, a MAHA dyno, but I will have to ask our UK development director who conducted the tests. 
It would appear to show that there was an increase in power with the spacer setup as full atmo. and 50/50, HOWEVER, this may just be due to strapping forces when putting the car back on the dyno between the runs and a nomimal amount of heatsoak present on the third run, so we WILL NEVER be quoted as saying there is any performance "benefit" from the spacer, however, there are obviously no losses.
All three runs resulted in similar enough results to indicate no real problems.


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## feuerdog (Feb 11, 2002)

The spacer CAN'T help/hurt performance! Why don't people understand this? It's AFTER the valve that controls the boost vent/recirc.
The dyno proves only one thing,.....that back-to-back dyno runs are inconsistent.
There is no mention of time between runs, tempertures, fan cooling, heatsoak, order of runs, etc. but even if there was there is still the normal inconsitancies that occur on a typical dyno pull. These plots prove nothing,....other than not much changes.
Yes, over time some _slight_, and I mean _SLIGHT_, fuel trim adjustments might be made by the ecu(over time), but only enough to keep everything in check and most likely not enough of a change to alter the power output adversely, if at all.


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## A4MouseJunior (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: (feuerdog)*

I have the valve installed on my 06 A3 and I feel I am losing power, the respone is not there. At that time I am stock.
So I return the spacer to Forge, that is in April. As of now, I still haven't got my refund yet??? What gives?


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## watchcrazy (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: (A4MouseJunior)*


_Quote, originally posted by *A4MouseJunior* »_I have the valve installed on my 06 A3 and I feel I am losing power, the respone is not there. At that time I am stock.
So I return the spacer to Forge, that is in April. As of now, I still haven't got my refund yet??? What gives?


This is about the performance of the spacer .... not that place to air your business with Forge. You might not agree, but I think this should not be aired on the technical forum.


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (A4MouseJunior)*

Give us a call and we'll have that sorted for you. 407-447-5363


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## DatacomGuy (Jun 2, 2006)

anyone else losing power with the forge?


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## ForgeMotorsport (Nov 16, 2000)

*Re: (A4MouseJunior)*

please call 407 447 5363 or e mail [email protected] and you WILL be taken care of 

_Quote, originally posted by *A4MouseJunior* »_I have the valve installed on my 06 A3 and I feel I am losing power, the respone is not there. At that time I am stock.
So I return the spacer to Forge, that is in April. As of now, I still haven't got my refund yet??? What gives?


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## Mr.Veedubya (Sep 25, 2004)

*Re: (ForgeMotorsport)*

Ive got mine on and was just wondering, is it supposed to be super sensitive? Mine will "blow off" due to the slightest increasin in RPMs and letting off the throttle, I can also hear the "plunger" when it closes if I listen for it. Not really complaining just making sure its normal.


_Modified by SpoolinFSI at 4:07 PM 6-10-2006_


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## bostonaudi1 (May 14, 2006)

*Re: Forge FSI Diverter Valve Spacer Dyno Test Results ([email protected])*

So we've apparently come full circle, now we have the tuners posting graph's showing their parts aren't _losing_ power. I appreciate the efforts put into this, but am I missing something? Aren't we supposed to be looking for parts that _make_ power?


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## watchcrazy (Jan 15, 2006)

*Re: Forge FSI Diverter Valve Spacer Dyno Test Results (bostonaudi1)*

I honestly think the spacer is just for those of us who want the VW-rice vesion to make that blow-off sound ... just my $.02 It isn't meant to give any gains.


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## Binary Star (Mar 27, 2001)

*Re: Forge FSI Diverter Valve Spacer Dyno Test Results (bostonaudi1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *bostonaudi1* »_So we've apparently come full circle, now we have the tuners posting graph's showing their parts aren't _losing_ power. I appreciate the efforts put into this, but am I missing something? Aren't we supposed to be looking for parts that _make_ power?

not necessarily... too keep those parts that make power running right, you need some parts that do not make power...


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: Forge FSI Diverter Valve Spacer Dyno Test Results (JettaDude101)*


_Quote, originally posted by *JettaDude101* »_
not necessarily... too keep those parts that make power running right, you need some parts that do not make power...









Except this part does nothing to keep things running right. It is an aesthetic mod that i'm sure lots of people like. If some one likes the noise, they can at least have some data that it shouldnt harm performance as it applies to dyno numbers. 
cheers! Mike


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

I agree.
This spacer is supossed to be a "cosmetic" mod, not a power enhancer.
The trouble is that in the car community, once you "stain" a product, its hard to remove.And that is why FORGE is understandably trying to "protect" its product.
Its interesting how no other company has ventured into the BOV territory for the TFSI.Have to give credit to FORGE for doing that.
Any chance we could get like a 1/4 mile comparison between the 2 cars?


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (GolfRS)*

We have NEVER claimed there to be any power or performance gains from this product, HOWEVER, along with everyone's (valid) concerns as to the venting of metered air, it is important for us to provide evidence that we have offered a product that does not negatively effect performance in any way. 
This product is selling faster than we can make them, so the interest is obviously there somewhere in the marketplace and we are just trying to meet that demand. 
Last time I had checked, we have sold just over 800 units in the US alone with sales figures unbeknownced to me from the UK office of which I have been told exceed 1000+.
Concerning SpoolinFSI's concerns, the "senseativity" that you are experiencing is in no way a byproduct of the installation of our spacer. Our spacer has no mechanical moving components to effect the operation of the OEM valve. The OEM valve is 100% electromagnetically controlled by the ECU, so the senseativity of the valve is based on the controlling perameters built into the ECU.
Concerning quarter mile tests, we will hopefully soon have access to a car locally for the testing of some other developmental projects, so I will look into the possibility of using said car for such testing, but I can make no guarantees as to a time frame right now. 
My opinion of drag racing (1/4 mile) used as a test to gauge performance as related to a specific product, however, is that it's a pretty unreliable method of testing. (less so than a dyno, anyway) You have to accomodate for additional variables such as weight (as related to fuel consumption between runs), headwind, tailwind, driver ability (as related to reaction time, shifting, etc). There is just too much to ensure any sort of acurate and consistent figures.


_Modified by [email protected] at 2:31 PM 6-12-2006_


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## GolfRS (Feb 4, 2006)

This might be, HOWEVER...my experience on car dynoing has showed me there is a HUGE diference between how a car measures on the dyno and how it performs on the road.
I am willing to bet there are more than a few people here (myself included) that have been outrun by cars much weaker, as shown on dyno sheets.
As for the testing variables,.......... i really doubt that having to lift the car and adjust the valve from Fully Closed to Fully Opened, would count as a SERIOUS reason NOT to have this test on accounts of false measurements.
Don't you think ??


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (GolfRS)*

I'm not saying that the test wouldn't be worth conducting. (as I mentioned I would try to do it)
My point is that you shouldn't expect the results to definitively prove anything given the additional variables that may (or may not) alter the results. You can't think of a drag strip as an environment condusive to acheiving any sort of viable test data. 
Can you tell me with absolute 100% certainty that you can make 10 consecutive passes at a strip with the same EXACT reaction time, et and trap speed on all 10 passes? Can anyone for that matter, really? Could you even pull that off with only 3 consecutive passes?


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## Rhein (Mar 27, 2006)

May be a stupid question, but when I installed my Forge spacer the other day, I noticed a clear viscous fluid on the DVs seals. What is this?


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

*Boost Leak*

I just took my spacer out this morning, and the seals were cut in some places.
I got the spacer from another Vortex member who got annoyed by it, and when I received the rings/seals were in good condition. Here's a picture a couple of weeks after:








Apologize for the quality of the pic, no macro or manual zoom in this camera. 
After removing the spacer and doing a few hard runs my car feels stronger, now my tires are spining like they used to. 
I also got a CEL (low boost) after removing the spacer. Cleared it out, did some more runs and it didn't return. Maybe the computer had changed the parameters with the spacer? Idk. 
Anyways, i'll be back later... wife's yelling... i mean, calling.


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## Forge Motorsport (May 3, 2001)

*Re: (Rhein)*

this is a very light smear of Mobil 1 grease to aid assembly 


_Quote, originally posted by *Rhein* »_May be a stupid question, but when I installed my Forge spacer the other day, I noticed a clear viscous fluid on the DVs seals. What is this?


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## Forge Motorsport (May 3, 2001)

*Re: Boost Leak (Aguilar)*

Contact the US office [email protected] and we will UPS you new O rings

_Quote, originally posted by *Aguilar* »_I just took my spacer out this morning, and the seals were cut in some places.
I got the spacer from another Vortex member who got annoyed by it, and when I received the rings/seals were in good condition. Here's a picture a couple of weeks after:








Apologize for the quality of the pic, no macro or manual zoom in this camera. 
After removing the spacer and doing a few hard runs my car feels stronger, now my tires are spining like they used to. 
I also got a CEL (low boost) after removing the spacer. Cleared it out, did some more runs and it didn't return. Maybe the computer had changed the parameters with the spacer? Idk. 
Anyways, i'll be back later... wife's yelling... i mean, calling.


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## DiscoGLI (Jun 29, 2005)

*Re: Boost Leak (Forge Motorsport)*

Now I'm afraid to take my spacer off.........I hope my seals aren't ripped.........


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2006)

*Re: Boost Leak (Forge Motorsport)*

The orings are going out today.


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: Boost Leak (DiscoGLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DiscoGLI* »_Now I'm afraid to take my spacer off.........I hope my seals aren't ripped.........

If they are, the lifetime warranty on the part means we'll send you replacements free of charge. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Aguilar (Jan 28, 2006)

Thanks. My o-rings are on their way.


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (Aguilar)*

For those who are curious, below are some sound clips of the adjustable spacer setup fully atmospherically on an '06 Passat:
http://www.hostdub.com/albums/...1.mpg
http://www.hostdub.com/albums/...2.mpg
It will only be marginally quieter when setup 50/50.


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## OGSN0 (Oct 4, 2004)

Nice. I had the non adjustable. I'm curious as to how the 50/50 setting sounds with an intake. Any one>?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

So by looking at the dyno runs. Where is the starting hp before the spacer installed? This thing looses more hp than they are trying to say. WAISTE OF MONEY!!!


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## Ken Adams (Jul 13, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*

My Forge valve leaked like nobody's business. I have GIAC X+ and when I had it on the car I was underboosting like crazy. Now that it is off, I am making requested boost and then some. The o-rings were fine as well.


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## Forge US (Jul 31, 2002)

*Re: (rysskiiy3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rysskiiy3* »_So by looking at the dyno runs. Where is the starting hp before the spacer installed? This thing looses more hp than they are trying to say. WAISTE OF MONEY!!!

If you look at the graphs again, it's clearly stated that the tests were conducted with the the valve fully vent to atmosphere, setup 50/50, and fully recirculating.
When setup fully recirculating, you are seeing the exact same operation of the valve as if our spacer was never installed at all with all of the residual air completely recirculated back to the intake side of the turbo.
If you look a little more closely, the graphs actually appear to show an increase in power when setup VTA and 50/50, but we do not and will never claim a power increase.
The goal was to create a product that doesn't cause any detrimental effects nor lose any power, and based on these tests, this is what we achieved.
In addition, if anyone has a problem with their spacer, or is not happy with it for WHATEVER reason, we have an UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY on all of our products, so contact us and we can arrange for a replacement component or a complete refund of the purchase price. 
It can't be a waste of money if we'll give you your money back. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## prom king (Aug 14, 2004)

*Re: (Ken Adams)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Ken Adams* »_My Forge valve leaked like nobody's business. I have GIAC X+ and when I had it on the car I was underboosting like crazy. Now that it is off, I am making requested boost and then some. The o-rings were fine as well.

How did you know it leaked?


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## rysskii3 (Apr 19, 2006)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_
If you look a little more closely, the graphs actually appear to show an increase in power when setup VTA and 50/50, but we do not and will never claim a power increase.


I think that bill. Soon as got the spacer in, the car felt slower. I took it out and it was fine, so I put in again and the same story. So when I go the spacer out I looked at the ring and it was fine. I’m pretty damn good with cars and I know I didn’t make an n error twice installing it. Other people had the same results. AINT WORTH IT!!!!


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## bhvrdr (Jan 26, 2005)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_If you look at the graphs again, it's clearly stated that the tests were conducted with the the valve fully vent to atmosphere, setup 50/50, and fully recirculating.
When setup fully recirculating, you are seeing the exact same operation of the valve as if our spacer was never installed at all with all of the residual air completely recirculated back to the intake side of the turbo.
If you look a little more closely, the graphs actually appear to show an increase in power when setup VTA and 50/50, but we do not and will never claim a power increase.
The goal was to create a product that doesn't cause any detrimental effects nor lose any power, and based on these tests, this is what we achieved.
In addition, if anyone has a problem with their spacer, or is not happy with it for WHATEVER reason, we have an UNCONDITIONAL LIFETIME WARRANTY on all of our products, so contact us and we can arrange for a replacement component or a complete refund of the purchase price. 
It can't be a waste of money if we'll give you your money back. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

That's great customer service http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now can you make me an upgraded dual side mount intercooler solutino for my car such as like the Tryol or the old RS4 intercoolers. I like the location of my DSMIC but want increased cooling with the k04 on there. Pretty please. 
cheers! Mike


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