# The Budget Build



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

First allow me to introduce myself and the car. 
My name is Vince and the car is.....well....tired.
At least when I got it. 
I am an auto mechanic, professionally, but do not work for a VW shop. However I started loving VW's when I began my career as an apprentice at a VW / Audi / Porsche Dealership. I have found, over the years, that the German cars are the only ones that I have not be able to destroy. 
Enough about me, here she is: or rather was:
1987 Fox Wagon. The main reason that I looked for and bought a wagon is I wanted the load carrying ability. I make a lot of wrecking yard runs, and my Jetta just doesn't have the room in the truck (VERY LARGE SUB BOX)








































For $300 you just don't get much these days. However, she passed smog without any problems and the A/C works.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: The Budget Build (16vvincent)*

One of the first things that I decided to do was correct the front end damage. In this case, I wanted to run the later headlamps as I like the look of them, and I think that I may get a little better lighting out of them when done.
You will notice the title. I am CHEAP. Okay, I am thrifty. If I can I will make something rather then buy something. I hunt through wrecking yards on a regular basis and living in Northern Cal, we have a bunch of Pick-n-Pull's not too far away.
So, on a 1/2 price day, I grabbed a pair of fenders, a hood, a front light support, a pair of headlamps and a grill. 
That same weekend this is what happened.








First removed the grill and headlamps and asessed the damage.
























As you can see, the damage to the passenger side was pretty bad. But, since I was going to cut it all out, it was not an issue.
Get the front end up on jack stands and start ripp'n n tear'n.








Remove the upper bolts on the fender (both sides) also remove the bolts on the rear of the fender and the one on the bottom.








Off come the fenders.








Install the later model hood (for gap and support alignment) and cut out the headlamp support.








If you notice, I didn't remove the entire front support. Looking at it, it didn't make sense to cut it all the way out. I cut it along the body section between the lower grill lip and the bumper support cross brace.
I also had to modify the headlamp cutouts at the inner fenders slightly as the profile is slightly different. 








This is the headlamp support mocked into place to check alignment and fit of the lamps. All good so far.








Here is the front end after stiching the lamp support in place.
















And with the hood closed.








The black that you see is paintable rubberizied undercoating.
Lamps and grill installed.
















I think that it looks much better.
_Modified by 16vvincent at 12:55 PM 12-25-2008_


_Modified by 16vvincent at 6:18 PM 12-25-2008_


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: The Budget Build (16vvincent)*

Many of you will have noticed that part of the Wagon had a small color change and that it has BMW bottle caps on her. This is how she looks right now. You may also notice the tinted rear lamps. Thanks to Brazilshopping.com
























The bottle caps were out of P-n-P and were also on a 1/2 price day. 
I have lowered her, cut 1 1/4 coil out of the front and 1 coil out of the rear. 
The Gray paint is the start of a two tone color scheme that I am working on. I also tinted the rear glass, limo dark. 
Part of the interior has been completed as well. I am using Mk2 GTi front seats, I have removed the crap brown interior and replaced it all with Black / Gray. The dash is out at the moment as I am wiring in Factory Cruise Control (also out of a Mk2) and installing a Mk2 cluster. 
























The stereo is all Alpine and I am using Alpine Seperates in the doors. Presently driven by the deck only.



















_Modified by 16vvincent at 1:06 PM 12-25-2008_


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: The Budget Build (16vvincent)*

wow that's the same red as my fox. way better condition though.
way impressive!! I wonder if anyone else switched a wagon to have a fox2 front.

awesome


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## Tjax (Feb 20, 2003)

*Re: The Budget Build (ziddey)*

Friggen nice work. Hats off to you my friend!


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: The Budget Build (Tjax)*

Nice work, and nice pix + write-up. Cool to see a Fox II wagon. Yours looked originally a lot like my wagon, and now the front looks like my 2-door. Always wanted to see that!


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: The Budget Build (reddfoxx)*

Thanks all. Once I get the dash back in (hopefully tomorrow) and finish wiring in the cruise and the Mk2 cluster, I'll get the rest of the interior shots posted up. 
I am hopefully, going to be able to find a trans that I want to use (Audi 2N or VW PSA) and then I can work on the ideas that I have for the short shifter setup. 
I had my car in the air on Wednesday and I think I know how I am going to change the shifter. (I had posted up a question about short shifters for the Fox. A lot of ideas! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif )
And keep in mind that this is a budget build. I have less then $200 in the front end change over.


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## ComradePie (Jul 28, 2008)

*Re: The Budget Build (16vvincent)*

Very nice work! You, sir, are to be commended!


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## novws (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: The Budget Build (ComradePie)*

I like this budget build. I was getting ready to write and ask you if the car was lowered -- because I like the stance. As coincidence would have it, I just took a bit less than 1.5 coils out of the front springs this morning and plan to take 1 coil out of the backs later this week. I guess I'm on the right track ...
My car is also a $300 wagon with front end damage, so I'm getting lots of other inspiration from your other good work as well.


_Modified by novws at 6:38 PM 12-25-2008_


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: The Budget Build (novws)*

The main thing when lowering any vehicle is to make sure that the control arms are parallel to the ground.
That keeps you out of the bump steer problems. I did several cuts before I was happy (took 3/4 of a coil, refit and checked, took another 1/4 coil....etc).
The car is probably going to get a set of 15" wheels and tires here shortly and I don't want to take it any lower then it is until I see how those fit.
Note: bump steer happens when the tie rods are not parrellel to the ground. As the wheels move up during bump, the tie rods move in a different arc and cause the wheels to toe out slightly during bump.
This is not a problem on unlowered cars, as the tie rods move towards toe in.


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## 2925 (Dec 11, 2007)

we actually have a build thread on the fox forum! 
Oh and bump for california fox!


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## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: The Budget Build (16vvincent)*

Finally, someone to actually convert headlights. Now people can quit asking how to do this








good work and i loves me some gambia red


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## magicninja (Sep 30, 2007)

where in sacramento are you ?


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (magicninja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *magicninja* »_where in sacramento are you ?

Don't get offended, but I am not putting where I live on the Vortex.
I have already had one theft attempted with my coupe. They didn't get the car, but they f'd up the stereo wiring enough to where it took me 3 months to get it rewired.


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

I personally like the use of the 16v Fuba in the rear. Its one of the things I've wanted to do to my wagon...


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*

Nice car, I just picked up a set of Hock R's for the Fox. A little different then your wheels, but close. 
Glad that you spotted the 16v antenna. I was going to leave that installation for part of the coverage of the interior replacement.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

I have always thought Hock R's are one of the best wheels for the fox.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

I hope so about the Hocks. I picked up 6 as I have a trailer (made out of the back of a Caddy) that I will pull behind the Fox. I think that a matching Wagon and Trailer (which is on air, by the way) should looke pretty cool. And carry a ton of s--t.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

nice build like everything your doing! (Except the showing off of the crossovers on the door. both for aesthetic and lifespan reasons) Good job


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Thanks Banned. After watching the rust-o project of yours that says something. I couldn't help it with the crossovers, I need to be able to adjust the settings, once the system is done and I didn't want to run super long wires from them to the speakers. But at least they match the color scheme.
Hey, I got the interior back together, Yaaaaaa!








Oh how I hate doing dashes on the Fox!








Got the Mk2 cluster wired up and working.








Note the modified wiring as the Mk2 uses a different layout then the Fox. 








I do not recommend this mod. This was a true pain in the a--. I came across a problem at every turn. And right now, the oil pressure warning system is disconnected, I do not have a brake or belt warning light, and when I put it together the first time the tach didn't work. (I had a 7k tach with a reface done to match the speedo) When I took it apart to fix the tach, it broke. Hense the 8k tach. 








Also note that I used Mk2 turn signal and wiper stalks. For those of you that are interested, this is a plug and play mod. As long as the stalks come from a 1989 car. (what you are looking for is big window doors and small bumper cars) This is the first year of the large stalks and the year before VW went to CE2 wiring. I don't know about the later Foxes.








Almost done!


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

And now for the mod of the day;
One thing that I hate about our cars (early VW's) is the lack of a cup holder. I use my cars for a lot of driving, most of it long distance (2 hours +). Having to sit with a can of coke in my lap is a pain.
So I found a swing out cup holder and decided to see if it would work.
First step: Cut out the heater piping under the center console:








Then cut a opening in the console to hold the cup holder.








Here is the cup holder in question:
















And installed in the console:
















I did screw up slightly and am going to redo this. I have to move it up slightly (about 1/2") to clear the carpetting correctly. 
And this is what the interior now looks like:








And the reason that I love the Fox Wagon:
Seats down:








Note: the tie down locations on the parcel trays (arrow)
Seats up:








And when I had the glass out to tint it, I removed all the brown vinyl and replace it with speaker carpet, all around. It is more durable and adds a little sound deadning. Looks pretty clean as well.








Hopefully, I will find that trans that I want tomorrow. And a replacement console


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

That cup holder is a cool idea. but that is right where my leg is. i have always just removed the ash tray, and put drink in there for years


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## jackfrost1031 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

yeah, same here.

_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_That cup holder is a cool idea. but that is right where my leg is. i have always just removed the ash tray, and put drink in there for years 

I'd have put it on the passenger side because I rarely have someone else in the car. And, if I do then I have 2 cupholders already.

Why did you do tha mk2 cluster?


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (jackfrost1031)*

I was (am) going to do two cup holders, one on each side. With the cruise control up and running (soon) the interference with my leg is not an issue. 

_Quote, originally posted by *jackfrost1031* »_Why did you do tha mk2 cluster?

So that I could change the face apperance. I have not been able to find faces for the Fox. Besides, with the Mk2 cluster, you can get a 140 speedo and 8k tach.








Also allows plug and play on the cruise speed sensor (in the back of the speedo).


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

wow mk2 cluster just for sliver face gauges! your hard core.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_So that I could change the face apperance. I have not been able to find faces for the Fox. Besides, with the Mk2 cluster, you can get a 140 speedo and 8k tach.

My speedometer says 220.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*

Kilometers per hour sucks!
Guess what I picked up today?
Does PSA mean anything to anyone?
And I think that I have figured out a short shifter set up. 
Let me get it worked out, but looking that the trans and shifter, what I have in mind should be quick, easy and (my favorite) fairly cheap.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_Kilometers per hour sucks!


I'm in the US!


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (ziddey)*

psa yea i know them well. i have killed a few in my younger days.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (ziddey)*

As those of you that have been following this build know, I now have a 5 speed transmission in hand.
Here it is, cleaned up and ready to go:








But first the shifter:
I have worked out a quick and easy short shifter for these, and hopefully it will work as well in the car as it did in my head.
First the item in question:








And tear down and inspection; 








Part of the issue is the bend in the lever. Moving the pivot ball closer to the lever pivot, causes the length of the shift throw to extend. So the first thing that you could do to optimise the shift throw (lessen) is make sure that the lever is as straight as you can get it. Especially in the area of the curve between the pivot ball and the lever pivot.
In my case, I am removing the pivot ball. Here is the compressed side ground off.








And with the pivot driven out:








And then straighten out the lever:








Add a couple of 1/4" holes: (note: the upper most hole is in the same location as the pivot ball was). I also ground the points down slightly.








And now to make the replacement control rod:








A couple of rod ends and some 1/4" drill rod. Threaded each end and added a slight offset (see last photo). Now there is no rubber in this part of the linkage.
























Hopefully I will get the transmission installed tomorrow (Wednesday) and find out if my modifications on the shifter are going to work.
Stay tuned!









_Modified by 16vvincent at 10:51 PM 12-30-2008_


_Modified by 16vvincent at 6:47 PM 12-31-2008_


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

The transmission is in and I like!
First, the reason that I wanted a Fox Wagon:








Took to work on Wednesday, the transmission, the set of TSW Hock R's, 2 with tires mounted, 4 unmounted tires, and a box of spares and cleaner.
Got to love that folding rear seat!








Now back to the trans being in. Took me perhaps an hour to get the old one out. About 2 hours to get the new one in. Made a couple of mistakes (make sure that the ground cable does not fall between the block and the trans, when that happens you have to loosen up all those bolts that you already tightened







) and the 5 speed did not have a clutch tension spring on the clutch rod. I was not sure if it was deleted from the 5 speed, but transferring only took about 20 minutes. 
The biggest fight that I had was the exhaust. (all factory, but the bolts were fairly rusted. Not as bad as you hae in the midwest or back east) 
Here is the results:
















I love the lower engine speeds on the freeway. 
And the short shifter worked out nicely.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

I also managed to get the cruise fully up and running. I used the factory cruise from a Mk2 Jetta, switches, controller, vacuum pump, and wiring. The vacuum diaphram came off of a Audi 80 with a 3A engine and was a bolt on affair. 
















The only thing not shown is the diaphram. Everything that you need is in the picture 
First to figure out where to mount the vacuum pump. I wanted it out of the engine compartment, close to the firewall, but not in the way of anything else.








Pump installed.








Pump harness routed.








Diaphram mounted and hooked up.








Vacuum hose routed (arrows).
The only thing left to do was connect the speed sensor into the back of the cluster (another reason I used the Mk2 cluster) hook up power, ground and brake light signal. 








The arrow indicates where the speed sensor goes. On the Mk2 cluster (and the later Cabrio and Scirocco clusters) this is pretty simple, break out the tab and install a speed sensor out of a car with cruise. On the Fox, I do not know.
I bypassed the brake and clutch switches and did not install a vacuum brake switch. It just made the installation a little easier and the brake light circuit disconnects the cruise without an issue.
This is the wiring diagram for the factory wiring out of a Mk2;








And this is the Mods that I made to the wiring:








The complete instructions are:
_Cruise Control Install;

Parts Required:
Cruise Vacuum pump 
Cruise Vacuum Pump mounting Bracket
Cruise Module
Cruise switches
Speed sensor
Cruise wiring
Vacuum Diaphragm
Most of this is available from a single Mk2. Normally found in the Jetta.
The vacuum diaphragm mounting bracket and the vacuum diaphragm mounting bracket are the only things that you really can’t use from the Jetta.
On the Fox, due to the engine / intake / throttle body placement, the correct bracket is off of an Audi 4000 with a 4 cylinder, or the 80 / 90 with the same engine. In my case, I found one off of an Audi 80 with a 3A engine. 
With the Vacuum pump mounting bracket this can also be off of an 4000, 80, 90 or in my case a VW Cabriolet. 
The speed sensor has to match the instrument cluster used. I do not know what the sensor is that would work in a Fox cluster (if any) and in my case that is why I went to a Mk2 cluster. This is not a wiring project (the cluster swap) for the faint of heart. And you will loose the Brake Warning lamp and the Seat Belt warning lamp. 
Once you get the wiring, you will want to modify it slightly.
The Brake and Clutch switches are not really needed, so you will want to run that circuit (coming off of pin 3 at the module) to the brake light circuit. This is the power feed to the brake light switch. On the Fox, this is normally the Red/White wire (check the Bentley for your year). When I splice a wire in, I never cut the old wire. I strip off about 1.5” of insulation and twist the added wire onto the old wire. I then solder and wrap it tightly with electrical tape.
The power circuit is going to come off the back of the fuse box. Use a female spade connector, a good pair of crimp pliers and attach that wire to one of the pins at ‘M’ on the back of the fuse box. Just use a test light to check which one(s) power up with the key on.
The ground is the easy one. A ring crimp connector and attach it at the bolt in grounds on the drivers side of the a pillar. Right next to the fuse box. 
The vacuum pump mounting location is a personal choice. As you can tell, I mounted mine at a location that allowed the shortest wiring run, there are several grommets already there to run the wiring and it is kept away from the engine heat. Run the vacuum line through the rain tray, using an existing hole. I did have to modify the drip rail (where the bracket is mounted) slightly, but that was 5 minutes of work.
Mounting the vacuum diaphragm is also straight forward. It only goes in one place. I did reroute the vacuum hose to the brake booster after final assembly. You just want to make sure that the linkage between the diaphragm and the throttle body is unobstructed. If there is any hang up, the engine speed will stick.
The vacuum hose goes from the diaphragm to the vacuum pump. Connect it to the side of the pump that has a hose coming off of it. It is normally the black hose fitting. The white side is the vent.
On the inside of the vehicle, you will have to remove the steering wheel and remove and replace the turn signal switch with a cruise switch. This can come from any Mk1 or early Mk2. The best thing is to match the switches with what you have or replace both with matching switches.
I used the switches off of a 1989 Mk2 Jetta on the signal side and off of a Mk2 Golf on the wiper side (rear wiper on my wagon). This switch choice will depend on you and your vehicle.
Install the cruise control module where ever you wish. I attached mine to the underside of the dash. As long as it is within range of the wiring harness, it really doesn’t matter where you put it.
Plug everything together, make sure that the brake lights work, and take it for a test drive. The speed has to be above 30 mph (on average) before the cruise will enable. But once there, turn the system on, push the set button and take your foot off the gas pedal. It should hold the speed without a problem.
Most of the issues that I have had over the years with the factory cruise, is the switches. You can take them apart (carefully) and clean the contact surfaces, but reassembly can be a bit of a pain. The only other area has been the vacuum diaphragm. When picking one up, check to make sure that it holds vacuum. Simply depress the diaphragm and cover the hose connection with a finger, release the diaphragm and it should stay sucked in. If not, look for another one. 
That should do it. _
Now this thing cruises down the freeway at 75 + mph without touching the gas pedal and turning just 3200 rpm. 
I am really starting to like this car!
I also managed to get the Hock R's installed. Photos later. I want to get the car washed and shoot a couple of shots outdoors.
It did nothing but rain yesterday, but I did get one photo shot with the Hock's on.








Next: Brakes. I have a set of 16v Scirocco front brakes with drilled rotors ready to go. Just want to source some steel brake lines.

_Modified by 16vvincent at 6:47 PM 1-1-2009_

_Modified by 16vvincent at 6:49 PM 1-1-2009_


_Modified by 16vvincent at 9:43 AM 1-3-2009_


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## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_I also managed to get the cruise fully up and running.
Very nice - I've always wanted to do this mod since I commute about 60 miles a day. Can someone FAQ this post out of the thread?


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_Very nice - I've always wanted to do this mod since I commute about 60 miles a day. Can someone FAQ this post out of the thread?

If you decide to FAQ this out, let me know and I will post up complete instructions, including where to connect to the fuse box, brake circuit, etc.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_Very nice - I've always wanted to do this mod since I commute about 60 miles a day. Can someone FAQ this post out of the thread?

Complete instructions posted;
Enjoy!


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Slow day today at work. So I took the time to sort out the instrument cluster. I managed to find a 7k tach to replace the one that I f'd up, calibrated the speedo (helps having a emmissions dyno on site) and corrected the oil pressure warning circuit.
Note: the oil pressure warning system is dependent on whether the tach is for a 8v or 16v. When I took the 7k tach out and put in the 8k tach, it sent the oil pressure warning system into a tizzy. 
This is what the cluster looks like now:








And lit, while driving, with the cruise, just shy of 70 mph. I love me that 5 speed!

















_Modified by 16vvincent at 10:51 PM 1-5-2009_


_Modified by 16vvincent at 10:52 PM 1-5-2009_


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## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Honestly....I think my tach says 3k at 70mph as well with my 4sp
GPS confirmed.


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## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*

Assuming 175/70/R13 tires and the stock PSA and PW transmissions, the PW car should be turning 3152 RPM @ 70 and the PSA car should be turning 2903 RPM. ~150RPM difference.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*

Actually, if you calculate out the gear ratios, with the 4 speed at 3k you should be doing 68 mph.
With the PSA 5 speed at 3K the car should be doing 73 mph.
http://www.scirocco.org/gears/
I do have a bit of a advantage on accelleration. The gear selection is a little closer and with the 4.11 final drive, the car get out of the hole much better.
And my car is running 205 50r15's


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

what the hell. i set my speedo for 70 @ 3k on a psa. and yet my gps shows me as being 6 over, and so do almost every speed sign i've come across. i guess my tach is off?? damn!


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (ziddey)*


_Quote, originally posted by *ziddey* »_what the hell. i set my speedo for 70 @ 3k on a psa. and yet my gps shows me as being 6 over, and so do almost every speed sign i've come across. i guess my tach is off?? damn!

More likely your speedo is off. They aren't very accurate. 
I FAQed the cruise control information under electrical and lighting. If anybody has a suggestion for a better section, I am all ears. I was torn between lighting and electrical, motor and transmission, interior and miscellaneous.


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## ziddey (Apr 16, 2006)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*

yeah I'm willing to bet that as well. But the thing is, three years ago, when I bought the car, I grabbed a cluster with a tach from the JY and pulled the needle off for some reason. So when I put it back, I set it to 3k rpm in 5th is 70mph. So now, going what my gps / speed signs say is 70, I'm actually seeing around 3200 rpm on a psa. Oh well, no biggy. Keeps me going slower than I think a lot of the time. Bet that saved me a lot of tickets. hah

edit: now that I think about it, yeah, it's probably still the speedo at fault. This summer when I drove cross country, I remember finding that speedo30 = gps27, 70 is 64, "100" is 92. and "100" was as fast as I could get the thing to go. 

_Modified by ziddey at 9:56 PM 1-6-2009_

Edit: Also, about the mk2 cluster. The speedo part is still completely mechanically driven, no? And likewise in the fox? So if anything, we could just grab the speedo part of the cluster from a mk2 cluster and throw it in the fox, and avoid having to do all the rewiring for ce2. If I ever find an audi80, I'll do this mod for sure


_Modified by ziddey at 10:01 PM 1-6-2009_


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## Longitudinal (Nov 13, 2004)

*Re: (ziddey)*

Check that the A2 speedo has the same ratio as the Fox. Down by the reset button, there is a four digit number. That number needs to match the Fox or else the speedo will read wrong. 
Yes, cable driven, and the same style cable connector, so the speedo itself goes right in.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (Longitudinal)*

A couple of things. I actually used a Fox speedo and mounted it in a Mk2 cluster. I also calibrated the speedo on a chassis dyno (one of the benefits of being a mechanic). It is off, but only by 1.5 mph at 60. Close enough for government work, 
But really at this point, on a vehicle that is old enough to drink (21), I think that we are splitting hairs or picking the fly s--t out of the pepper by worrying if our speedo reads 70 or 73 at 3k rpm.
The mere fact that we are keeping an older car alive, making it better, getting decent mileage, and turning a car into something beyond the cookie cutter vehicles that are being built these days, is the main thing.
This is the truth of all the early VW's.
The fact that they are frigg'n fun to drive when done, or while building them is just frosting on the cake.


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## DreadPirateRobert (Aug 25, 2005)

Man, I liked your bottlecaps. We could have matched. :-(
Anyway, nice build.


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## jakemeister (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (DreadPirateRobert)*

Wow Vincent, you have created my dream Fox!
A wagon with Mk ll front end, 5 spd/ A/C and CRUISE!
You should consider this as a side line, as I would be the first in line to buy one of these completed cars!
Amazing job!
Can't wait to see the completed 2 tone paint job!
Cheers, Jake.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (jakemeister)*

Thanks Jake!
Hey, Hows TO?
I went to high school and started my career in that area!
(High school in Ajax, worked at Autocars North VW-AUDI, which I understand has closed)
Cheers!















Vince


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## jakemeister (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Hey there Vincent:
Kool, are you a Canadian, now residing in the US?
Well, it cold as he.. here, -15C, lots of snow, and more on the way, otherwise pretty good.
Yes, there have been many large dealerships of all types close their doors in the past 6 months, pretty scary stuff.
But seriously, love the work you have done on your fox wagon, I really would consider buying one from you, if you were to do another, unfortunately, I am not that mechanically talented to do that indepth work.
I actually put a post in the Fox classifieds looking for a mk ll Fox Wolfsburg 4 dr, as I need the extra space of the 4 dr, (wagon better) and the 5 speed as well. I like the look of the 91 - 93's better, hence the swap on your wagon.
As you mention, budget, in parts for sure, but it's your expertise that keeps it a budget project.
Take care, jake.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (jakemeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jakemeister* »_I actually put a post in the Fox classifieds looking for a mk ll Fox Wolfsburg 4 dr, as I need the extra space of the 4 dr, (wagon better) and the 5 speed as well. I like the look of the 91 - 93's better, hence the swap on your wagon.
There's a dude in Casper WY selling, nay, giving away a '93 4 door IIRC. Of course, I have no clue what it'd take to send a Fox across the border...


----------



## jakemeister (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*

Hi there:
Thanks for the info, I just saw the follow up to his post, and the car has NO interior, missing electrics and needs alot of work, just to be street ready.
Appreciate it though.
Cheers, Jake.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (jakemeister)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jakemeister* »_Hi there:
Thanks for the info, I just saw the follow up to his post, and the car has NO interior, missing electrics and needs alot of work, just to be street ready.
Appreciate it though.
Cheers, Jake.








Laf, hadn't seen that, but at least the price was right!


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (jakemeister)*

I probably shouldn't mention that the weather here is in the 50's (f) although we have been getting a little rain. I don't miss the weather, of the taxes, or the price of gas..........
It is too bad about you looking for a Fox Wagon. A friend of mine, just sold a twin to mine (at it was originally red with brown interior), but straighter body wise. Ran, passed smog, drove straight, (once we replaced the bad wheel bearing / Half shaft) and even less rust (something that you will never see in TO, a rust free car) then what is on mine. Went for $850. 
Of course, it still would have needed to have the headlamps updated, 5 speed, blah, blah.
I think the wagon did come with a 5 speed, but it was pretty rare. I know the Fox never had cruise. 
It is not so much my expertise (thanks for that) but rather that I am a Cheap Bast--d. 
As for me, I was born in the U.S. but when my dad retired my mom stated that we were moving to TO (where she was born and raised) I was 13. My first day in school, I had to sweep the snow off of my desk in Geography class. (no joke, the teacher liked it cold)
This after having lived in Florida and California for most of my life. But I ended up with some great friends. I left TO in 87 and moved to Cal in 89. Except for 3 years in Detroit working for Ford Motor Company, I have been here since. 
If you really want to see a couple of my projects go to photobucket and hit my collection (16vvincent). I am most proud of the Jetta Coupe.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_I think the wagon did come with a 5 speed, but it was pretty rare. I know the Fox never had cruise. 
No, all wagons got the 4 speed. The only 5 speed wagons got swapped after the fact.

_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_If you really want to see a couple of my projects go to photobucket and hit my collection (16vvincent). I am most proud of the Jetta Coupe. 
Oh, wow, that Jetta looks sweet! Not too many coupes anyway, but the Cabby grille swap really sets it apart!
Of course I'm really particular to the 'rocco - I had one just like it in Mars Red.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*

Thanks on the Jetta comments. That is the Euro GTi grill on her. 
I also am in love with the Sciroccos, this being my 12th. This one will be a track and street car as it is getting everything that I know. I already have a 2.0 16v engine built, a close ratio 5 speed, all the suspension, etc. The body is rock straight and has no rust and I picked it up for $200.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_The body is rock straight and has no rust and I picked it up for $200.
I officially hate you. I came close to buying one in Colorado last year, but it had some rust in the usual spots. I showed the pics to my local body guy and he said "No way. You don't want that one."


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_I officially hate you.









I get that a lot!








But I am lucky. Living in Cal, most cars have little or no rust. They are just not taken care of.
I just sold a Scirocco on E-Bay last year, that was complete, with no rust. Was not a project car in that the guy that bought it, drove it to North Carolina. Even the A/C worked. 
The price? $2600.00.
He now has it on thesamba and is trying to sell it for twice what he paid.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_He now has it on thesamba and is trying to sell it for twice what he paid.
Heh, d'ya have his address? }:>


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*

This is the Samba Ad for the Scirocco that I sold.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/cla...23151
And yes, that is my white rocco in the background.
But isn't this a Fox forum?
I am running of things that I can do to the Wagon. I am waiting for some parts to show up, before I start the next series of mods.
I am having a bit of a problem finding Steel Brake lines for this car. I ordered a set, but was told that they no longer carry them (eurosport).
Still looking though.


----------



## jakemeister (Feb 24, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Vincent, if you are running out of things to do to the Fox WAGON, then maybe it's time you sell it to me, and begin another excellent Fox project, lol!
No seriously, hee, hee!!


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (jakemeister)*

Once I get the wagon done, it is going to be my daily driver and wrecking yard vehicle. That is the main reason that I bought her.
This is what I have left to do:
I have on order a set of H4's from Brazilshopping. I have a set of PIAA driving lights coming (going where the signals are in the bumper, thanks for the idea Banned).
I am going to install a set of Fog Lamps and a rear fog lamp (I have them in stock, but am looking for a Fox fog lamp switch)
That should take care or the lighting.
A set of 16v front brakes and steel flex hoses (I have the brakes am having a hard time finding the hoses).
A 2.0 3A engine. I have most of the parts already, but am looking at cams. Full exhaust. 
Paint. 
I may still take the suspension down a little more and will probably, at that time, replace the struts / shocks. 
I still have a sub box to build and a amp to install. Going to try to keep it fairly stealthy. 
I am also looking at modding the front bumper a little to get it closer to the ground.
I will probably do the sub box tomorrow. Today was for working on the Coupe. 
As for selling it?
Make me an offer..........


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_I am going to install a set of Fog Lamps and a rear fog lamp (I have them in stock, but am looking for a Fox fog lamp switch) 
I've been looking for that switch for a decade. If you get one before me I will not be pleased.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (kerensky)*

Good thing i have three of them (and no!)


----------



## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Good thing i have three of them
 X 1/3

_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_(and no!)
 X2
Got it from the stealership a couple of years ago. Cost it's weight in cold pressed latinum.
Bet the junkyards of Soa Paulo are filled with them yet they don't seem to get as far as ebay.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_I've been looking for that switch for a decade. If you get one before me I will not be pleased.









If they are that rare, I guess I had better order it from the one company that seems to have it in stock. I just did not want to pay $35 for a switch.
(I will tell you were for $5)


----------



## voxwagen88 (Dec 9, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
This is what I have left to do:
I have on order a set of H4's from Brazilshopping. I have a set of PIAA driving lights coming (going where the signals are in the bumper, thanks for the idea Banned).
I am going to install a set of Fog Lamps and a rear fog lamp (I have them in stock, but am looking for a Fox fog lamp switch)
That should take care or the lighting.
A set of 16v front brakes and steel flex hoses (I have the brakes am having a hard time finding the hoses).
A 2.0 3A engine. I have most of the parts already, but am looking at cams. Full exhaust. 
Paint. 
I may still take the suspension down a little more and will probably, at that time, replace the struts / shocks. 
I still have a sub box to build and a amp to install. Going to try to keep it fairly stealthy. 
I am also looking at modding the front bumper a little to get it closer to the ground.


I like where this is going.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for brake lines i wonder if the Techtonics set for A1/A2 with rear drums would work.
Did your Fox get any Dynamat at all? I have nearly as much sound deadening material in my Fox as you have in the Coupe. Your install is much tidier.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (voxwagen88)*

Thanks;
No the Fox did not get any Dynamat. But it is intended to be a work truck, not a show / street car. (the Coupe has taken a couple of trophies so far) The Coupe is also a much more narrowly built vehicle. It is far harsher to drive, much more focused then the Fox. For instance, the shifter in the Coupe only moves about 3 inches fore / aft and feels like it goes straight into the transmission. It will also corner much harder then the Fox. And stops like it dropped into a sand pit.
I am just trying to build a good solid car that is dead reliable, yet still fun to drive and is a little different then the melted soap bars out there.
I figure, for the price of several monthly payments that most people make on a car, I can get this one done and still have a couple of bucks left over. 
TT no longer carries the Fox lines, and from what I have seen with part numbers, they are different. Perhaps the length at the front or rear, I don't know.
Neuspeed carries them, but they want an arm, leg and 3 extra fingers.


_Modified by 16vvincent at 10:08 PM 1-10-2009_


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
If they are that rare, I guess I had better order it from the one company that seems to have it in stock. I just did not want to pay $35 for a switch.
(I will tell you were for $5)








If they really do have 'em, I'll paypal ya the cash.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*

I just ordered one.
New Dimensions. Kinda hard to find in the catalog, but.....

http://www.newdimensions.com/0....html


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_If they really do have 'em, I'll paypal ya the cash.









Did you get yours ordered?


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
Did you get yours ordered?








Ooooh, no, just saw this post! I'm on it like a duck on a junebug!








OK, man were you right. Took me about 15 minutes of wandering to pin it down.










_Modified by kerensky at 8:19 PM 1-12-2009_


----------



## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

http://www.autotech.com/prod_b...s.htm
Scroll down to the Fox
Edit: I just realized you guys were talking about the switch and not the SS lines.


_Modified by DubbinChris at 11:48 PM 1-12-2009_


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*

That will be $5.00 please!


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbinChris* »_http://www.autotech.com/prod_b...s.htm
Scroll down to the Fox
Edit: I just realized you guys were talking about the switch and not the SS lines.

_Modified by DubbinChris at 11:48 PM 1-12-2009_

Not a problem, but I found some brake lines for cheaper. 
http://www.rapidparts.com/prod...x/961
I like cheap!


----------



## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
Not a problem, but I found some brake lines for cheaper. 
http://www.rapidparts.com/prod...x/961
I like cheap!

Good score!


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_That will be $5.00 please!








IM me your email addy. You takeum Paypal?


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*

Just kidding. I just hope that they really stock them.
Cheers....


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
Not a problem, but I found some brake lines for cheaper. 
http://www.rapidparts.com/prod...x/961
I like cheap!

Double check with them on these lines. I got mine from them for the wagon back in 04 (I think), and they were not correct. The fronts are fine, by the rears will require a female-female adapter. The lines for the wagon are different due to the load sensing prop valve. They were pretty cool to work with on the phone and offered to exchange the rears for some from a mkIII Golf (I think, that's what it was anyway...) that have the proper terminations, but are about 25mm longer. Better longer than shorter, I suppose. They don't (or didn't) know the deal for the Fox wagon vs. sedan, so be ready for them to be wrong. Other than that, the price is right.


----------



## blkparati (Sep 22, 2001)

*Re: (snowfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowfox* »_
Double check with them on these lines. I got mine from them for the wagon back in 04 (I think), and they were not correct. The fronts are fine, by the rears will require a female-female adapter. The lines for the wagon are different due to the load sensing prop valve. They were pretty cool to work with on the phone and offered to exchange the rears for some from a mkIII Golf (I think, that's what it was anyway...) that have the proper terminations, but are about 25mm longer. Better longer than shorter, I suppose. They don't (or didn't) know the deal for the Fox wagon vs. sedan, so be ready for them to be wrong. Other than that, the price is right.

Exact same thing with me in 99.But I didn't find out untill years later when I did the 10.1" brakes.I still have the rear lines.Any idea were I can get adapters?


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (blkparati)*


_Quote, originally posted by *blkparati* »_
Exact same thing with me in 99.But I didn't find out untill years later when I did the 10.1" brakes.I still have the rear lines.Any idea were I can get adapters?









I have a pair of adapters from when I fit stainless lines on my S. Beetle back in the day, but I don't know where they came from. (I lost them for a long time and just found them again the weekend before last - sorry, they are reserved for use on my wagon.) When I found the problem with the lines for the Fox, originally, I called Rapid Parts and explained the issue. They were completely unaware of this difference for the wagons. The guy I spoke with looked through the specs of the lines they offer and found the ones I mentioned earlier that *should* work. He offered to exchange the incorrect rears for the other less-incorrect rears (~25mm longer than Fox lines), but I life got busy (had a baby, got laid off, etc) and it kinda fell off my radar, if you know what I mean. Like I said, I literally lost the stuff for a while and just rediscovered it. I plan to fit my rear lines in the near future, now. I will post a pic of the adapters when I get to it...
[edit]
Just thought of the dates on this a little. I originally got the lines when I had my second wagon, so they are from around early 2003.
[/edit]


_Modified by snowfox at 9:31 AM 1-13-2009_


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (snowfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowfox* »_
He offered to exchange the incorrect rears for the other less-incorrect rears (~25mm longer than Fox lines), I plan to fit my rear lines in the near future, now. I will post a pic of the adapters when I get to it..

I was just in contact with Alex over at New Demensions and let him know about the brake line issue with the wagons. I think that he may come up with a possible set of lines. 
He also told me that they are out of fog light switches. I guess the last 3 were bought after I posted up about them. I have mine coming


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_He also told me that they are out of fog light switches. I guess the last 3 were bought after I posted up about them. I have mine coming








Wow, I knew I shoulda ordered two!


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
I was just in contact with Alex over at New D_i_mensions ... 

Please post up (or IM me) with how things go with the new/resurrected New Dimensions. I wasn't really involved with the scene when everything apparently went to hell with ND a few years back. I frequently hear a lot of bad blood on the NorCal regional forum when they are mentioned, but it would be cool if things have made a significant change for the better. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
As for the other fog light switches that have been snapped up, I wonder if someone will be listing them on ebay soon.







Weak sauce if they do... http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (snowfox)*

I was into the scene when ND was huge and never missed a Charity show. When Tim sold it, that was pretty much the end. I think that the guys that bought it are trying to get it back to the good ol' days. 
I am going to support them as much as possible, because in NorCal we need that type of company (the old one). 
If someone were really smart, and lived in Brazil, they would be hitting the wrecking yards and listing that stuff on E-bay. I know that I would. 
That was a hint to those of you that live in Brazil, by the way! I know that there are several Fox guys from that part of the world.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

I wish that there was something to report on the Wagon. But I am stuck in a holding pattern waiting for pieces parts to show up.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

So, as everyone that has followed this build knows, I have been waiting for some parts to show up. Well some of them got here earlier this week.








And a little suprise that I found in a wrecking yard over the weekend.








First the driving lights. I need more better lighting. Period. After having looked at specs for a whole bunch of lights, the PIAA 1500 seem to fit the location. In the bumper (thanks to Banned for the idea). 
This is what they should look like when done. This is the light just layed in the turn signal opening.








First thing to do is modify the bumper rebar. I had to cut out the mount for the signal, and at the same time, cut a little of the extra metal to help lighten the load a little.








And then trim the bumper cover to even it up with the rebar.
















Layed the light in place to mark the location of the mounts.








Mounted the lights, trying to keep them centered in the opening. 








And what the rebar (bumper support) looks like with both lights mounted.








Wiring is an issue that I will deal with this weekend and I know a bunch of people will want to see how. I tend to over wire a vehicle. This will be relayed to the N th degree.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

And now for the little suprise that I mentioned.
One of the things about the Fox is that there just are not a lot of body kits / spoilers / Air dams available. We are such an unloved vehicle. sniff, sniff








But what if I told you that there is a front spoiler, that is almost a bolt on, has fog light mounts and looks pretty trick (IMO)? Was in Pick-n-Pull on Saturday in Fairfield. Not much there for VW's, but there were a couple of early 3 series BMW's. I am standing there looking at this front spoiler and thinking,,,,,Hummm. 
Grabbed it and this is the result.
First, what the front end of our car looks like. We all know just how plain jane this sight is.








And the front air dam:








Mounted on the stock front bumper cover:








And mounted on the car:








I have a set of Fog Lights that fit the lamp mounts on their way as well. The wiring of them will be included in the next project. (Saturday)
Cost of the front air dam - $22.00, paint - $15.00 sandpaper - $10.00
I did sand it down with 80 grit and then with 320 before hitting it with a couple of cans of Dupli-color bumper paint. 



_Modified by 16vvincent at 10:19 PM 1-22-2009_


----------



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

Not bad, not bad at all. How's it look from the side?


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

I always thought some of that BMW stuff might work, just never got around to trying any of it. Great work! Like turbine, I'm curious to see how it works out on the side view...


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*

Actually, the end of the spoiler, matches up with the end of the bumper cover, perfectly. As you can tell from the photos, it was late last night when I got it mounted back up. I am going to take the car to work today and try to give it a bath and take some photos from different angles. About the only problem area is I had to rivit the dam on to the bumper cover across the top. But I did that before I painted it. There are also 4 holes in each side of the air dam that have to be filled. This thing is made out of Urethene rubber and is not the easiest material to work with when it comes to filling.


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
Mounted on the stock front bumper cover:








And mounted on the car:










Now that's what I'm talkin' about, right there. Sssaaawweeeetttt!!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Now please bring it out here so you can hang out with some of your fellow 'local' Foxers:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4184269


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (snowfox)*

A couple of photos to show what the sides look like on the spoiler:








And from directly from the side:








And from the tire side:








As you can see, the alignment with the edge of the tire looks really good and it lines up really nicely with the end of the stock bumper.








I think I need to bring the car down a little more.
And, finally for tonight.
I got mine, did you guys get yours?


----------



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_A couple of photos to show what the sides look like on the spoiler:










Hey, that looks pretty good... Might have to pick one of those up for myself.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_
Hey, that looks pretty good... Might have to pick one of those up for myself.









Thanks, I think so too. I am looking forward to seeing how it looks with the fog lights in.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_I got mine, did you guys get yours?
Yeah, mine came in Thursday.







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif

_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_Hey, that looks pretty good... Might have to pick one of those up for myself.








I actually went to the junkyard yesterday looking for one. I think I might prefer to remove the front valence and mount something to attach the dam to, though.
That came from a BMW, right? Is it a stock part, 'cause I've been unable to find anything similar....


----------



## el conquistador (Jul 29, 2007)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

It looks like the air dam was made for the Fox. I need one of those. Is it factory or aftermarket? I'm ready to go junkyarding.


_Modified by el conquistador at 7:53 AM 1-24-2009_


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_That came from a BMW, right? Is it a stock part, 'cause I've been unable to find anything similar....

I don't know if it is stock, one of the "M" spoilers, or aftermarket. It appears to be a limited production item if anything. This thing was mounted on the car is such a way that I have to think that it was a factory option. (many brackets, many bolts, much headache taking it off) Plus there are not too many aftermarket air dams that include the fog light mounts (complete with adjusters, al la factory headlamps).
I am heading out to a Pick-n-Pull right now (broke a clutch cable) and if I find another, I will grab it.


----------



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

Early 80's, you say? Holy crap there are a ton of 1980s 3-series BMWs in local yards!


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*

From what I have been able to gather, the spoiler came off of a 87 325is. 
I think.
I did find this item in one of the Bimmer forums, that is the front air dam that I used.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com...r+dam
Perhaps I should have sold it, instead of throwing it on my Wagon.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_From what I have been able to gather, the spoiler came off of a 87 325is. I think.
I just saw one go by me on the way home today.


----------



## novws (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*



16vvincent said:


> From what I have been able to gather, the spoiler came off of a 87 325is.
> I think.QUOTE]
> Spoiler looks great on the Fox. I actually think it's from an 86 325es -- although some or all of the 87 is's may have used the same piece.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (novws)*


_Quote, originally posted by *novws* »_Spoiler looks great on the Fox. I actually think it's from an 86 325es -- although some or all of the 87 is's may have used the same piece.
What does the one on your 318 look like, novws?


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*

A box of goodies showed up today:








Just like X-mas only better. I am getting what I wanted.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

For those of you that have been following this build, you will remember me saying something about over wiring a car.
This is what I use to get the cars wired up and relayed correctly.








These are from a Ford F-150. The relay block holds 5 relays, 3 Bosch 30 amps, and 2 minis.
The small block,








is a fuse holder that holds 6 mini fuses. I am going to use that to isolate the relay block.
My intentions:
The 3 30 amp relays, 1 for low beam, 1 for high, and 1 for the fogs. 
The 2 minis, 1 for the driving lamps, and 1 for the horns.
I am going to wire the driving lamps to the high beam circuit so that when highs are on, so are the D/L's.
Removed the grill, lamps and the front wiring harness:








Installed the relay block bracket (from the F series).








This is mounted to the lower part of the front support. Somewhat out of direct weather, but easy enough to wire to and service.
The fuse block will be mounted to the left inner fender support next to the washer bottle.
Starting to solder the wiring and build the harness.








I use the main lighting wiring as triggers for the relays. What I mean is, I send the power to the headlamps to the coils of the relays. When the low beams are on, that power turns on the Low beam relay and....
This will also give me 2 extra wires (low and high beam on the drivers side) I will use one of those wires for the fog lights.



_Modified by 16vvincent at 11:07 PM 1-24-2009_


----------



## novws (Dec 17, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_What does the one on your 318 look like, novws?

 Here's a pic of mine. The 89-91 cars had a lower metal front bumper in place of the plastic spoiler of the earlier cars. The lower spoiler however is plastic. Some -- or all of this -- may be adaptable to the Fox I guess. I had never really thought about it before. I sure like the look of the earlier 3 series spoiler on the Fox though.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (novws)*

More wiring. I am now wiring in the relay box to the main wiring harness:








It looks worse then it actually is. If you just do it one circuit at a time, it will work out quite nicely.
Here I have most of the soldering done and I am now wrapping the harness.








This is what the relay panel looks like with the relays in place and the cover off.








This is what the fuse block looks like and where I mounted it. It is now all wired in.








And the relay block in place:








And of course, the power feed to the fuse block. Ran it through a 100 amp mini blade fuse.








And although I used the factory grounds for several circuits, I also added a extra ground wire (10 gauge) for the headlamps (high and lows).
The front end is back together:








Low beams on;








High beams!
















Yes I wired the driving lamps to come on with the high beams!
All I need to do is aim the lights and that part is handled. These lights are much brighter and have a better beam pattern then the stock aeros. But they are still not as good as a good set of e-codes.


----------



## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Great work! I've always wanted to put some driving lights there. Also great JY finds with the relay block and the airdam. I'm totally stealing some of these ideas at some point.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbinChris* »_Great work! I'm totally stealing some of these ideas at some point.

You know what they say about 'Imitation being the best form of Flattery'! 
Thanks.
That is they reason that I post most of this stuff. I would love to see the cars get better and more realible.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_You know what they say about 'Imitation being the best form of Flattery'! Thanks.
That is they reason that I post most of this stuff. I would love to see the cars get better and more realible.
I love this thread, because I've got a set of the fog lights, but I don't like just dangling them under the front bumper. It looks so unfinished. This dam looks like it has perfectly-sized mounting holes for the fogs.
As for the driving lights in the bumper, I've loved that mod ever since I saw Banned do it. I plan on adding turn signal bulbs into them so they still function as originally intended when the driving lights are off.







(Still not an original idea, I saw a 914 do that once) As an author friend of mine is fond of repeating, there are no original ideas.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (kerensky)*

Thanks for the credit. But I cant take it, I seen it done on a mini truck back in the 80's. I rewired the corner lamps to flash just like the late model fox's do. also for the relays. I used three on each side one relay for one low beam. one for one high beam, one for each fog light. over kill? maybe so.it just went well with the 120amp alternator, 1 farad capacitor and 4 gauge ground and positive wire.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_This dam looks like it has perfectly-sized mounting holes for the fogs.

Actually, the dam has factory fog lamp mounts built in to it. I am just waiting for the lenses / reflectors to show up.
As for original ideas. You are correct, there are none. However, I do know that I am one of the few that use factory relay blocks and mod them for other applications. You should see the wiring in my Jetta Coupe!
I do want to address the wiring just a little as well. For the noobs out there, it is a lot easier and simpler then it appears.
First lets look at a typical relay:








We will ignore the center connector at this point and just look at the outside 4. As you can see, I added a little wiring diagram to the relay. This is pretty much a standard Bosch style relay (Bosch holds the patten on almost all electrical and electronic components in the automotive world) and is found in almost all vehicles, somewhere.
The way that it works is a power trigger sends energy through the leads marked "Coil". This energizes a small electro magnet inside and closes the contacts for the "switch" side. That's it. 
With what I did, I used the power out to the headlights (high or low beam, we will keep it simple) and grounded the other side of the coil. When I turn on the headlamps, the coil energizes. 
As for the switch part, I ran power from the battery to one side of the switch side and ran the other side to the lights. 
What are the advantages? 
You lessen the wiring length that the power has to run though. You also reduce the load on the switches and the fuse block.
By running the power from the battery through a relay near the lights, the electrons do not have to go into the passenger compartment, through the fuse block, through the switches (head lamp and dimmer switch) and then back out to the lights. 
Wiring distance: Perhaps 20 feet total. 
For each foot that the electrons have to travel though wire, they loose a little.
The way that I have run the wiring, the power to the lights travels though a large wire (8 gauge) through a fuse block and to the relay block. 
Wiring distance: Perhaps 9 feet total. 
Disadvantages? 
It takes a little to get it wired up.


----------



## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

Great work. I relayed my headlights last month.
I was shocked to really see the difference between power-starved lights and those that are not.
Your Fox looks great.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (mike in SC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mike in SC* »_I was shocked to really see the difference between power-starved lights and those that are not.
Your Fox looks great.

Thanks Mike. It is coming along.
Most people are shocked as to how much difference getting real power to the lights can make. 
I was disappointed with the stock lights








and even more so with the aeros, But the H4's are good to go.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banned wagon* »_Thanks for the credit. But I cant take it, ...it just went well with the 120amp alternator...
Well, I didn't say you did it first, just that yours was the first (and cleanest) I'd seen.







So, what alternator did you use? 'Cause that's something I'd been wanting to investigate...


----------



## gt40mkiv (Sep 10, 2005)

So could you get brighter lights with the stock closed-beam headlights by simply relaying them? Obviously it would be at least a tiny advantage, but would the difference be noticeable/worth it?


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (gt40mkiv)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt40mkiv* »_brighter lights with the stock closed-beam headlights ?

The best thing to do with the stock "sealed beams" is remove them and chuck them in that big green can outside. Replace them with a set of H4's and then relay them. Or relay them and then replace them with H4's.
I doubt that you will see much improvement by relaying them, as the stock lights are......garbage......
And if you ever drive a car that has a really good set of headlights (e-codes), that are properly relayed, you will NEVER go back.
*EVER*


----------



## gt40mkiv (Sep 10, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Yeah. I hear ya. Money is tight, so is my night-time vision. Plus the PO's mechanic "adjusted" the lights with zip ties due to a front end bender.


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_And if you ever drive a car that has a really good set of headlights (e-codes), that are properly relayed, you will NEVER go back.
*EVER*

I feel I must point out here that these lights aren't legal in most states.








Now pardon me while I go order mine.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (gt40mkiv)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gt40mkiv* »_Money is tight, so is my night-time vision.

Having owned a car that could break 150 (68 Dodge Charger) with really awful headlamps, I will never do that again.
Consider it an insurance policy, to help keep you from hitting crap in the road. Or missing that poorly marked turn. 
http://www.autobahnpower.com/p...r=423


----------



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
Having owned a car that could break 150 (68 Dodge Charger) with really awful headlamps, I will never do that again.
Consider it an insurance policy, to help keep you from hitting crap in the road. Or missing that poorly marked turn. 
http://www.autobahnpower.com/p...r=423

Just for the love of god don't put [bad language avoided!] HIDs in your halogen reflectors!








There should be a hunting season specifically for twits like that!


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*

Okay, one of the problems of adding lights, or a stereo is something is going to give. 
In my case, in the middle of the past week, the car started, not starting.!








Sure, probably a weak / old / tired alternator, Right?
Time of a couple of tests.
First the battery voltage at the battery.








Okay, 12.7 volts is a little low, but not low enough to condem the alternator. If the alternator was not working at all, the voltage would be lower, below 12 volts. 
So test the voltage at the alternator.








This was at the post coming off the alternator. That means that I am loosing almost 1.5 volts between the alternator and the battery. 
Well, I was going to update the power wiring anyway, this is as good a reason as any. So I stripped out the cables going to the alternator and to the starter. 
It was then that I found the actual problem.
Like all water cooled early VW's, they run the alternator power to the starter, not directly to the battery. In my cars case, the connector had been left loose at some point in its history (no I didn't remove the starter when I changed the transmission.







)
In fact it was loose enough that the arcing (arcing causes heat, think electric welding) caused the nut to weld on to the starter stud. The result was a broken starter. 
A quick trip out to Pick-n-Pull and back to making the new cables.
First, this is the battery to the starter, and the alternator cable that came out of the car.








I doubt that the battery / starter cable was 6 gauge, and the alternator was maybe 8 gauge, Maybe!
The new alternator cable: 4 gauge and gold connectors.








That will reduce the loss from the alternator. I am also running it straight to the battery.
Also a visit to my old friends at Monster Cable:








First, ground side. The Fox uses a pretty decent braided cable to the transmission, so I just cut out the battery connection section,








And ran a 2 gauge from the battery to the ground bolt on the battery tray. Also note a appearance from our other old friend; Optima.








On the power side, you already know about the 4 gauge going to the alternator, from the battery. But I also made a 2 gauge cable to get power to the starter. Also with the Monster Battery connections, help to reduce the chances of corrosion and clean everything up. 








The end result:








I am now only loosing .09 volts between the alternator and the battery. Far better (I checked the alternator output as well, it was at 13.70).
And the engine cranks over like it is on......Crank!



_Modified by 16vvincent at 7:58 PM 2-1-2009_


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*FV-QR*

Have you considered a higher-output alternator than the 90 amp? I think Banned Wagon had a 120 Amp in his Fox, but have no clue what he took it out of...


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_Have you considered a higher-output alternator than the 90 amp?

I am thinking about trying to figure out a serpentine belt setup when I go to the 2.0 (3A). At that point I will put in a 120 off of a Mk3.
I think that Banned may have repulley'd a Mk3 alternator. Just a guess though.


----------



## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (kerensky)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kerensky* »_Have you considered a higher-output alternator than the 90 amp? I think Banned Wagon had a 120 Amp in his Fox, but have no clue what he took it out of...

It was from a Audi 5000 I think that i modded the case and brackets to fit (this was in 1990)


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Banned wagon)*

Ohhh, the secret is finally out.
I agree that I higher output alternator is nice, but I have a big stereo and a ton of lights in my Coupe and it only has a 90 in it. One of the biggest gains will always be in the wiring. The more that you are able to reduce the losses (electrons) the less alternator you need. 
But I am still looking in to the serp belt. I like them very much.



_Modified by 16vvincent at 10:27 PM 2-3-2009_


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

*Re: FV-QR (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_I agree that I higher output alternator is nice, but I have a big stereo and a ton of lights in my Coupe and it only has a 90 in it. 
I guess as long as you're not using your bright lights, driving lights, fog lamps, stereo cranked to 11, and the defroster on max, you're probably not going to run out of juice.


----------



## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (kerensky)*

nice spoiler, nice lights, very nice wiring. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (reddfoxx)*

Fog lights showed up today:


----------



## kerensky (Mar 5, 2001)

Looks awesome! It could use some mesh screen in those upper openings to hide the crank pulley and stuff...


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: FV-QR (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_









This is coming together nicely! I am looking forward to seeing this at Pt. Reyes. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (snowfox)*

Well, I got the Fog light switch wired up today. For those that are wondering how to and what each connector goes to, here is what I did.
The switch has 4 pins on the back, numbered:
83a
31
58b
+
The switch circuit is between 83a and +.
The light is between 31 and 58b.
This gives you several options on wiring up the switch light. 
I used ignition switched power to the + pin and installed a jumper from 83a to 31. Then I grounded 58b. This allows the fog lights to only work when the key is on. It also turns on the light in the switch only when the fog lights are on.
Another option would be to hook + to ignition power, jumper from + to 31, hook 83a to the fog light relay and ground 58b. This will light up the switch when the key is on (just like the headlight switch), and only allow the fogs to work with the key on.
You could also do that with power from the headlamp switch, getting power to the switch only when the running lights are on, etc. But that should give everyone an idea of how to use the switch.
As far as a connector for the back of the switch, a trip out to the wrecking yard and cut the connector off of a head lamp switch. It plugs in prefectly and gives you plenty of options for wiring.


----------



## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

About relaying stock lights-There is a definite improvement over non-relayed lights. I'd hazard a guess at 25% more light. It is worth the effort to relay stock lights. The difference was shocking though. 
But, I will get a nice set of square lights from Daniel Stern lighting when I have some more cash.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (snowfox)*


_Quote, originally posted by *snowfox* »_
This is coming together nicely! I am looking forward to seeing this at Pt. Reyes. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Thanks Snowfox. I am looking forward to seeing a few wagons and maybe other Foxi there as well.
As for today's update: Brakes.
Yes I got the 16v brakes and the braided lines on the car. Yippie!
So, for this weeks how to, here we go.
First took all the old crap off. 








This is a true (most of the time) budget build. The rotors I found out at Pick-n-Pull on a 1/2 price day. They are close to new. I just did a light cut on the surfaces with a brake lathe, just to clean them up a little.








Rotor installed. I always use the little Phillips screw to hold the rotor in place. It makes putting the wheels on, much easier.








This is the key part, the caliper carrier. This moves the caliper out about .3" to allow for the larger rotor diameter. And the bolt pattern at the hub is correct for the Fox.








Here is the carrier mounted, note the long bar that I am using to tighten the mounting bolts.








Trust me, you do not want the bolts coming loose.
I always use a couple of drops of Loctite on the threads.








Here is the caliper prepped and ready for installation. Note that I use a high temp copper based grease on all the surfaces between the caliper and the pads. I also use a little between the pads and the carrier. This goes a long way to reducing brake squeel. Also do not forget to install the stainless steel clip in the caliper piston.








Pads installed, again note the grease and that I am using Mintex pads:








This is the right front corner assembled and ready for brake bleeding. Note the braided lines are already installed. As stated by others, the 16v Scirocco left caliper goes on the right side of the Fox. The reason is, the calipers are mounted on the front of the spindle on the Scirocco and on the back on the Fox. You have to keep the bleed nipple facing up. That way the air bubbles head towards the nipple when bleeding.








Okay, back to the braided lines. You guys were correct. The ones that I got from Rapid were not correct for the rear. Fortunately, the length was correct, and I only needed to source an female to female adaptor. Stopping by my local Pep Boys and they just happen to have 2 in stock. Cost? An additional $6.00 total.
This is what the line looks like with the adaptor attached. I did have to work a little to get it in place, but a small movement in the hard line and adding a ty-strap to keep it from rattling. The adaptor end went on the body side at the clip. The clip fit over the adaptor, and I just added the ty-strap to keep the chance of movement to zero.








Okay, on to bleeding, or in this case, flushing the brake system. 2 quarts of brake fluid (Dot 3, not going all out here) in my pressure bleeder and here it is ready to get pumped up.








Starting at the right rear, to the left rear, right front and finally the left front. This bleeds the brakes from the furthest to the closet (to the master cylinder). 
This is from the left front. The old fluid as it is coming out. Pretty isn't it?








This is actually the second time that I flushed the system. I actually installed the brakes yesterday at work. But my camera battery was dead and I hadn't installed the rear lines. So I took one corner apart to take the photos and to do a complete reflush once all the lines were installed.
And this is the fluid coming out nice and clean. Yes there is actually fluid in that clear hose.








Throw the wheels back on. Even looks pretty sexy even behind the wheels. Note: the paint that I used is Duplicolor's Brake Caliper Paint. I used 1 can for both calipers. Just get the calipers as clean as you can before painting, allow them to sit at least over night, and try to keep brake fluid off of them. If you do, wash them with just water. A couple of miles and a couple of hard stops will bake the paint in and they will be plenty durable.








And the results, Damm this thing stops. Much better then the old thin, tiny, weak ass, stock rotors. Nice firm pedal. 



_Modified by 16vvincent at 5:22 PM 2-7-2009_


----------



## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (16vvincent)*

_Nice _pix. Thanks for making everything clear, visually and textually.


----------



## gt40mkiv (Sep 10, 2005)

FAQ worthy for sure! Very Very Very nice write up.


----------



## sluggerknuckles (Jul 5, 2005)

so many amazing things going on here and all i can really focus on is the cup holder!! does anyone know what vehicle that might have come from?


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (sluggerknuckles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sluggerknuckles* »_so many amazing things going on here and all i can really focus on is the cup holder!! does anyone know what vehicle that might have come from?

95 Ford Windstar


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Awesome work http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Love the 91+ front end on it!
Got to ask.. What's up with the Lofoten green looking rabbit?










_Modified by the brit at 10:47 AM 2-20-2009_


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (the brit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the brit* »_
Got to ask.. What's up with the Lofoten green looking rabbit?









The Green Rabbit is my Swallowtail. It is in need of much work (can you say: replace the floor). I picked it up for $100. Not running. 
But it is a swallowtail ('75). 
Not much to report on the Fox. I am building an exhaust system but as we all know, TT no longer makes a downpipe. Therefore I am making, not one, but two. I have a Dasher manifold and downpipe and a Audi 4k manifold (early) and downpipe. I will probably put the dasher setup up for sale when donw. The Audi one is staying on the car.
However, I needed to fix the cup holder situation. As everyone knows, and several suggested, the placement in the console was not perfect. So, I replaced the console and sought out a different mounting location.
Upper part of the doors.








Marking the location and starting the cut.








I trimmed the covering and cut the backing out.








And from the backside.








Folded over the covering.








Trimmed the defrost duct and hot glued everything in place.








Cut the sheet metal in the door.








Mounted the cup holder
















Checked the clearances and put the door back together.








And Brit, just for you:
























That is how we found it.


----------



## DubbinChris (Dec 15, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
Glad that you spotted the 16v antenna. I was going to leave that installation for part of the coverage of the interior replacement.

Was that going to cover a headliner by chance?


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (DubbinChris)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubbinChris* »_
Was that going to cover a headliner by chance?

Actually, I was not going to do anything with the headliner. It is in really good shape. The color is not quite correct, but that is the only problem with it.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

I had been waiting for my TIG welder to show up. The frigg'n TIG welder that I ordered 2 weeks ago and it seems that UPS has lost.
But I'm not pissed.......















Anyway, with Pt Reyes coming on quickly, I couldn't wait any longer.
The Manifold is on the car and the down pipe is made. The rest of the exhaust will go quickly.
Here is the Downpipe build.
Starting with the stock down pipe off of the Audi.








I cut away the pipe after the collector








And found that the factory was none to careful about construction. Note the areas that the arrows are pointing.








Took a die grinder and cleaned up all the welds on the inside of the pipes. I also did a light port on the manifold. Not much, just to clean up the roughness of the interior, removed a bunch of casting slag. Probably improved the flow by perhaps 10% (it was pretty rough inside that thing)








After installing the Manifold, I bolted the upper part of the down pipe onto the manifold and then started mocking up the downpipe. This is what I ended up with.








This is what the new pipe looks like compared to the stock (Fox) pipe.
I had some 2.5" mandrel bend pipes lying around and that is what I used to make the downpipe. I am stepping it down to 2.25" for the rest of the exhuast system, just before the cat. 








And this is what the down pipe looks like right at the Y junction.








The rest of the exhaust later this week.



_Modified by 16vvincent at 10:49 PM 3-1-2009_


----------



## mike in SC (Apr 29, 2004)

I am glad to see what you did with the downpipe. I bought one a few years back after I bought the respective exhaust manifold. If my TT unit fails I can use a backup plan! Great work.


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (mike in SC)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mike in SC* »_ I am glad to see what you did with the downpipe. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## the brit (Jun 23, 2003)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_
The Green Rabbit is my Swallowtail. It is in need of much work (can you say: replace the floor). I picked it up for $100. Not running. 
But it is a swallowtail ('75). 








That is how we found it.


Awesome! I love the jetta towing it, haha.
I got my Lofoten green swallowtail from Worcester, MA and towed it back to PA. I let it go to concentrate on other projects, but I wish I hadn't..
If you ever want to sell yours (without floor pans) let me know - we're already thinking about coming out to the west coast again for the big show in the PNW, so maybe we could do Dubwars in California too


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (the brit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the brit* »_
Awesome! I love the jetta towing it, haha.


That Jetta is my truck. It towed my Fox from Bakersfield, Ca. to Sacramento and got 30 mpg doing it. Soon though, the fuel economy is going go get less. 
This is what it is getting. 








I picked this up for $400 just for the swap, had a hole in the oil pan and a crushed oil pump. Dropped the pan and all the rods and inspected the bearings. Normal wear for 140K miles. Put a decent oil pan and good pump, added fluid and drove it. 
Brit, I doubt that I will sell my Swallow tail. However, I have a friend that has one that is also missing a floor, but his runs. (found it at the same time and place as mine) He may let it go. If you go to the Swallowtail Preservation Society you can see photos of both of our cars (vwdean and 16vvincent) plus a video of his running. (the orange one)
http://www.swallowtail.info/

_Modified by 16vvincent at 6:14 PM 3-2-2009_


_Modified by 16vvincent at 6:15 PM 3-2-2009_


----------



## whattime2587 (Sep 25, 2008)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Bravo, you are a true mechanic. I've never seen such a thorough budget build of a front end.


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (the brit)*

Look what showed up in the mail today!






































This will be prefect for the 2.0.


----------



## turbinepowered (Mar 19, 2007)

From whence did you snatch that?


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (turbinepowered)*


_Quote, originally posted by *turbinepowered* »_From whence did you snatch that?

E-Bay.de.....


----------



## spdrace11 (Oct 27, 2003)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Wow


----------



## snowfox (Apr 4, 2002)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

You, sir, are one dedicated and driven individual. I wish I was going to be able to go Pt. Reyes this year - I was looking forward to meeting you and seeing your handiwork. Fantastic progress you're making, for sure. NICE pan, too!

Maybe next year...


----------



## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (snowfox)*

It looks like we may have more then just a couple of Foxes this year as well.
Too bad you are not going to make it.
Looks like the weather is going to be good as well.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_It looks like we may have more then just a couple of Foxes this year as well.


We had 5 last year (4 VW 1 Audi) doubt we will have that many this year.

_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_Too bad you are not going to make it.

Yea sucks, good luck with the emissions test.

_Quote, originally posted by *16vvincent* »_Looks like the weather is going to be good as well.

Lets hope the weather holds out.


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## magicninja (Sep 30, 2007)

I'm gonna be riding with my buddy in either his mk5 or mk2 vr. Did you figure out which car you're gonna bring ric ?


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (magicninja)*

I am taking 2, my Mk2 Coupe and the Fox.
Keep in mind, this is really a 'old school' meet. The Mk2 would be a better fit over the Mk5.


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

how are you bringing two? Towing or a second driver?


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Two Drivers. There are a lot of guys in the club that own newer cars (Mk4's) We really push to keep the Old School Get Together, old school.
I will probably not do much driving anyway. I will spend most of the time hanging out the window, taking photos.


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## sluggerknuckles (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

So I went on the hunt for the windstar cupholder, and here is where I put it. I just hope it clears in the glove box... too late now


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (sluggerknuckles)*

Sweet!
Just remember to remove the drink before you open the glove box.








Placing mine in the top of the doors has worked perfectly. Lots of clearance for arms, hands, using the windows, blah, blah.



_Modified by 16vvincent at 8:31 PM 3-15-2009_


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## Canadian V-Dub (Feb 10, 2009)

What year of Windstar did that come from? My parents have an '01, and the cup holders are way different.


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## sluggerknuckles (Jul 5, 2005)

*Re: (Canadian V-Dub)*

i think 16vvincent said it was a 95... when i was in the jy, there were alot of windstars. ALOT! Almost all the interiors were the same, but a few had this cupholder in the very back. For the last row seating. Again, only a few of them had it. LIke it was an option or something. When you take it out, be very creful, i cracked the first one. open the cupholder and begin removing it from the bottom right first. the top left clip (where the holder hinges) is the hardest to get out.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (sluggerknuckles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sluggerknuckles* »_i think 16vvincent said it was a 95... when i was in the jy, there were alot of windstars.

Correct, only the 95 and only at the third row seating.
If you want a pair, I can ship them to you for $15 (for 2 cupholders).


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

So, it has been a while since I did any updating on the Fox Wagon. Mostly because it has been a while since I have done any work on her.
I finished my VR swap into my Mk2 a couple of weeks ago and have just been refining the job. 
I did have to order some parts and while waiting for them to show up I figured this would be a good time to add a little bass to the wagon.
Therefore, the Sub Build!
The area that I am using is the Passenger side under the side package tray.








I started with some cardboard templets and then cut the 3/4" MDF from that. I also made a cut out for the CD changer and the Amp.








From there, I covered it with carpet.








Mounted the Amp from the rear.








And then installed the Sub.








The box is held in place with 2 bolts that pass through the inner sheet metal and are held by captured nuts (those little clip nuts that are used on body work and behind dash panels). Both bolts are installed when the Sub is out of the box.



_Modified by 16vvincent at 8:53 PM 6-7-2009_


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

This is what held me off of the Wagon for the last few months:


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## Banned wagon (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Nice sub box looks great and very period correct. 


_Modified by Banned wagon at 9:19 PM 6-8-2009_


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (Banned wagon)*

Thanks Banned:
I found the amp out of a used car that was traded in and the Sub I had picked up for a song off of E-bay.
The MFD and carpet I had laying around. I just had to get movated enough to do it. 
And find a little free time.
I hope to have an exhaust system completed and a update by the end of the week.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

*Re: (sluggerknuckles)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sluggerknuckles* »_So I went on the hunt for the windstar cupholder, and here is where I put it. I just hope it clears in the glove box... too late now









How is the cup holder working out?


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## fabriciotkd (Aug 20, 2009)

*Re: (16vvincent)*

Hi 16vvincent!!!
I´m from brazil, and your project is amazing!!!!
Here, we loved the Parati!!!(Fox Wagon)
This color, of your car is red Fênix!!!!
Look my Fox Wagon!!




_Modified by fabriciotkd at 12:24 PM 8-20-2009_


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

So it has been quite some time since I updated the Fox Build. Well, I have had other things that I had to take care of and the Wagon just became a daily driver. But I did start to prep her for paint and then finally did paint the car.










And I did it in my garage using a home made paint booth (cough, cough).



























































And once I got her back together again, here is how she looks:


















Now, for a true budget build, you have to use the cheapest paint possible. how about Rustoleum from Home Depot? The paint for the car cost a total of $60.00. Now, is it a show quality paint job? Umm no way. but it looks good inside and out and it is all one color now.


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## JGWarner (Oct 22, 2009)

Looks great, IMO. I'm actually most impressed by the home built paint booth!

I've been following this thread for a long time, great work. Your thriftiness is an inspiration to all foxers everywhere :beer:


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

:laugh: Great! It looks good, and that was pretty thrifty. And I'm impressed you got your garage clean enough to put the plastic up- I've only had mine that empty once in five years.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

reddfoxx said:


> :laugh: Great! It looks good, and that was pretty thrifty. And I'm impressed you got your garage clean enough to put the plastic up- I've only had mine that empty once in five years.


It wasn't easy to get the garage clean enough to paint in, but I got very little dirt in the paint. 

And it certainly looks better then it did before the paint. Thanks guys.


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## 16vvincent (Jun 7, 2005)

One of the things that we just don't have with the Foxes is a decent trailer hitch. So I decided to build one. 
I made a Class 3 hitch using the steel bumper bar and some supporting brackets.

First I needed to figure out where it would end up. Cut a square opening in the front side of the bumper bar:










And in the rear section as well: 



















Then tacked the receiver (Harbor Freight $20) into the front side:










And fully welded the receiver on the back side:


















I then fully welded the outer part of the receiver to the bumper bar.
Here I have added some strengthning brackets to the bumper brackets. This is to reduce the load per bolt between the bracket and the bumper bar. This reduces twist and sway when there is a load on the hitch and adds a pair of bolts to the installation.










And the completed hitch with the cover back on:


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## reddfoxx (Sep 18, 2005)

Very clean! There have been a few others; I know Dasbaldguy's Saveiro has one, done by Longitudinal.


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## DasBaldGuy (Jan 12, 2005)

Excellent Build, awesome FAQable items....


I love the FoxII front end on your wagon!


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## vwturbofox (Jul 31, 2010)

16vvincent said:


> Look what showed up in the mail today!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


so were do you get these oil pans from i want one


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## spdrace11 (Oct 27, 2003)

Nice build :thumbup:


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## lots-o-bunnys (Aug 13, 2010)

haha love the paint booth, this build is awsome!!


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## 1993vw fox (Jan 15, 2011)

Just found the build. This is a nice project from start to finish. Thanks for the post. :thumbup:


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## hussdog426 (Nov 20, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## KRAMMIT (Apr 16, 2011)

*Wow! Absolutely Amazing!*

What an incredible journey I have just been on; reading this thread...! You are a creative and very talented man! Dedication and attention to details are most informative and inspire one to NOT be so hard on ones Fox! 

Highest Commendations to YOU, sir, and your efforts! This post is truly well done....and the resulting finished product (ongoing project) speaks for itself! Ausgezeichnet!!


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## 90quattrocoupe (Feb 7, 2002)

updates?


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## novws (Dec 17, 2005)

I'm curious, too, about what happened to this project. It's one of my favorite threads on the Fox forum.:thumbup:


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## 89foxbox (Dec 10, 2002)

I really like the idea of using speaker carpet to cover the rear hatch area. My vinyl is pulling away from the body.


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## woodardman (Sep 13, 2012)

89foxbox said:


> I really like the idea of using speaker carpet to cover the rear hatch area. My vinyl is pulling away from the body.


Yes! I just bought black speaker carpet. And am hoping to trace the old board onto a thin piece of plywood an just cus diagnal lines where the speakers go an put one full sheet of carpet over it to give it a nice sleek look!


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## What the Fox (Aug 7, 2012)

Been some time checking out your posting and I was just floored!!!!!!!!! seeing that BMW front spoiler and the fit.... art I say, thing of beauty :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: ... wrap it up with fog replacement turn signals... and I thought the norm was a S10 hahahahhaa, this could change a lot of fox's sir... see everyone running for the wreckers :thumbup:


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