# Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story



## 99mk3vr6 (Oct 19, 2004)

Im sure all of you know the story of the of the 60 Minutes Broadcast making false allegations about the audi 5000 having an unintended acceleration problem. I am a big audi 5000 fan and would love to see that show that was broadcast 11/23/86. Does anyone know where i can find this? I know i might sound like a dork but oh well lol.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (99mk3vr6)*

There is more truth to this story than is generally believed by the Audi faithful. Try to find the
2004 thread about this and you will read some interesting comments from knowledgeable technical people of how the problem occurs. The problem does occur and I have had it happen to me in my 84 5000 turbo--many years after the 60 Minutes report.


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (Peter Badore)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Badore* »_There is more truth to this story than is generally believed by the Audi faithful. Try to find the
2004 thread about this and you will read some interesting comments from knowledgeable technical people of how the problem occurs. The problem does occur and I have had it happen to me in my 84 5000 turbo--many years after the 60 Minutes report. 

UA has been reported in a multitude of car brands over the years, Google it and see for yourself.
What 60 Minutes did was a hack job on Audi (similar to the report exploding gas tanks in GM trucks they did a few years back, they rigged the results), and almost drove them out of the USA. Audi was later found absolved of the allegations, but the damage was done. 
I owned almost exclusively mid '80 Audis for 15 years now, never once had a problem. 
J.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (84cgtturbo)*

My point was I actually experienced the UA condition in my own 84 Audi 5000T. And I am no stranger to Audis as I was responsible for a multi-million $ engineering design and development program for the Audi 100 for First Auto Works (an Audi licensee) in the People's Republic Of China. One of my peers after retiring from Chrysler became the Audi and VW service engineering manager in North America. Audi Bob, as we called him, told me that that although the Audi field engineering study could not reproduce the UA, the engineers studying the problem believed that the reports from owners were neither fakes or flakes.


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## Peter Badore (Jun 17, 2002)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (Peter Badore)*

Also, what kinds of transmissions did your Audis have?


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## nuugen (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (99mk3vr6)*

There was conclusive evidence in a report by Car and Driver magazine that most of the accidents or near-accidents were caused by driver error...In the 5000 the pedal arrangement in those years were very close together, maybe in the spirit of heel-and-toe or performance driving, and most people were simply stomping down on the wrong pedal and sending the car careening---I just witnessed a rental car customer last week who did exactly that in a 2004 Toyota Corolla, he was attempting to park when suddenly the car took off and rammed into a tree(he claims the car just went from idle to full-throttle all by itself, and he slammed the brakes on to no avail







)..
In some of the 5k cases, there proved to be faults with the idle air control circuit--the voltage stabilization control for the a/c system would provide too much voltage input to the IAC, causing the idle to jump to an abnormally high 1500-1700 rpm (If you own one of these cars, just turn on your defrost or your A/C--the engine idle will increase slighty to accomodate the heavier drag on the electrical system). This in turn would cause the car to jerk forward or reverse and startle the driver. Some of the drivers (particularly elderly and less-experienced drivers) would react by planting their foot to the floor on what they thought was the brake pedal, but actually turned out to be the accelerator. When interviewed by 60 Minutes, some of these people claimed that they had the foot brake pushed with all of their might--HOGWASH! In any car built after the late 50's, the braking force of the OEM system will hold the car even if you are at full throttle---that's how we can go out and power-brake in our '67 Chevelle







--so I fail to see how a car with an excellent braking system like the one on the 5k could not hold the car under 2000 rpms!
What I believe happened is the snowball effect-- there were a few people who actually experienced the problem, but then you get all the yay-hoos who smash into a tree in their front yard and don't want to take the heat, so they start yelling *UI*!
Audi quickly re-designed the pedal assembly and installed a shift lock for the auto tranny-equipped cars, as well as fixing the IAC/AC voltage issue--but it was too late, this story put a tarnish on the 4-ring reputation that would take years and millions of dollars to overcome...
BTW, the unintended acceleration problem has infested EVERY manufacturer, and I suspect that in the majority of those cases the people inolved are just trying to avoid taking responsibility for their mistakes.
I'm done...


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## nuugen (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (nuugen)*

http://www.audifans.com/archiv....html


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## nuugen (Jan 2, 2002)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (nuugen)*

http://www.ukar.org/hewitt01.html


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## 99mk3vr6 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (nuugen)*

I have had about 10 audi 5000's and never had a problem, my family also owns a vw/audi repair shop and work on them all the time and never an issue. I have seen all of the information online, but does anyone where i can see the 60 min show itself?


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## Scott by BOSTON (Jan 10, 2005)

I've had two of them take off on me.
1980 4000S cruise control was like set to infinity. It just kept accelerating, I just turned it off. To a college kid it was a controlable "cool" when it topped out at only 98 MPH.
!991 200 20V (3B) Squirel acorns under the cam linkage for the throttle, kept it around 3000 RPM (engine idle)
Both cases I could control, but I was caught off guard in the 200 20V
BTW: We had a 5000s (1986) auto. I couldn't over power the brakes, but the car was regularly serviced.
-SCott by BOSTON


_Modified by Scott by BOSTON at 11:21 PM 6-21-2005_


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## Audi Coupe GT (Dec 31, 2004)

The V8's are notorious, apparently, for stuck throttles. Mine stuck at full one time. I'm still paying for it - I toasted my brakes trying to stop the thing.


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## Nrcabby (May 1, 2003)

*Re: (Audi Coupe GT)*

The ua happened to me in my 200. The linkage for the cruise control from the bellows to the tb fell off the bellows and got stuck on the side of the intake manifold with the throttle plate near wide open. It was at night in some slush and very scary needless to say the first thing I did when it stopped was buy some new underwear.


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## audi403 (Jan 8, 2005)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (nuugen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *nuugen* »_In any car built after the late 50's, the braking force of the OEM system will hold the car even if you are at full throttle---that's how we can go out and power-brake in our '67 Chevelle







--so I fail to see how a car with an excellent braking system like the one on the 5k could not hold the car under 2000 rpms!

That's it in a nut shell, to me it's common sence.


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## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (audi403)*

I responded in another thread about UA once, so I'm going to pirate most of that text below. 
I don't know where you could get it, but maybe start by checking Google, Alta Vista (which does video searches) and contacting CBS directly.
While some might call me biased because I own and operate a site that caters to Audi enthusiasts, I honestly believe this topic is an old ghost that Audi (rightfully) doesn't really like to talk about. If I were them, I'm not so sure I would either. The issue really can be traced as taking them from one of the hottest-selling brands in North America at the time (remember Ferris Bueller's dad rolling in the 5000, while his wife drove a K-car







) to virtually pulling out of the market by '93. 
The issue for those who don't know was a claim by 60 Minutes in their report that Audi 5000s were suddenly accelerating unintendedly and in some cases the resulting collision caused death. Audi was taken to court in a few of these situations, and I'd bet once the episode aired, they were subjected to a lot more lawsuits by folks who believed the same had happened to them.
Does it happen? Yes, probably. There are reports of UA on all cars. IF it legitimately happens to some degree in most if not all cars (I've never experienced it), then you have to surmise that UA in some form may have happened to Audi owners as well. I'm not saying it didn't happen or doesn't happen, I'm saying it doesn't happen in the sensational or rampant way 60 Minutes described, and several magazines made very good cases as to why the 60 Minutes piece was junk.
Reports in the wake of the 60 Minutes piece suggested this was happening in everything from manual cars to automatic cars in drive, park and whatever else. Drivers claimed the brakes mysteriously were also inoperative (a wholly different system, as was the clutch on the manual cars).
I was at dinner last fall at an Audi event where I had the pleasure of sitting with a board member from Audi AG when the subject came up (Rule #1 when at dinner with Audi folks is don't bring that up, it's murky water long under the bridge, and most of the Audi staff at the helm nowadays had little or nothing to do with it, even if they did work for Audi at the time). I'm surprised it had even been brought up by another person at our table, though this being a German board member and the event being almost a generation (of workers) ago, the Audi guy avoided really addressing it, probably due to not being acutely aware of the details and not wanting to commit a board-level response to something he wasn't studied on and that was basically an ancient subject by news standards.
I responded though. Back then, I was a snot-nosed kid in highschool, driving a Scirocco and lusting after the Audi Quattro. I had read everything I could on the subject, just in case my parents flew off the deep end and decided to finance my move from used VW to smoking Audi coupe. I had to be prepped.
During those years, each of the then Big 3 automotive mags (Car & Driver, Motor Trend and Road & Track) published articles, all basically debunking the claim by 60 minutes. At one time I had all of those issues, I think they're in storage in my parents basement.
Anyway, from these articles I remember the following important facts the mags reported. It's been so long, I'd want to reread the articles before officially reporting on them (this is the forums after all right, not our editorial section). I couldn't hope to remember which mag reported which fact, but the points are the important part here....
***these facts are as I remember them having last read them roughly 10-15 years ago, so if you are really and truly interested in researching them, please read the articles yourself. Disclaimer aside, here're the points I remember reading.
1. First, no car sold in America then or now could overpower its brakes. If you hate your car and wish to test this, stand on the accelerator and then stand on the brakes. It may not stop as fast, but it'll stop and this goes contrary to reports made against the Audi automobile at the time.
2. Second, one of the magazines referred to a study of unintended acceleration in the industry as a whole. Basically all of the manufacturers get reports of this every year. The magazine examined correlation between spacing between the pedals of the car and the number of reports (prior to the report, as the 60 Minutes show skewed Audis numbers in its wake). Prior to the report, Audi came in at a higher rate than say the Ford Crown Victoria with much more space between its pedals, but the same as the Honda Civic which had roughly the same distance between throttle and brake pedals.
3. One of the mags did a test rigging a car to accelerate when the brake pedal was pushed. What they studied was how a driver would react if they hit the gas pedal by mistake, thus simulating by making the car accelerate when the driver thought they were trying to stop. The result to this test as I recall was that most drivers pushed down harder when they thought they were hitting the brakes, even if the result was more throttle.
Now, given all of this, and the other things I've heard about the process such as 60 minutes having to rig a car for the filming to "simulate" the issue, I personally believe this was an issue of driver error in most cases.


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## 99mk3vr6 (Oct 19, 2004)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story ([email protected])*

thanks alot for the info


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## 84cgtturbo (Apr 3, 2003)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (Peter Badore)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Peter Badore* »_Also, what kinds of transmissions did your Audis have? 

'79 5000 - 3 speed auto
'84 CGT - 5 speed manual
'86 4KCSQ - 5 speed manual
Never have had any UA problems. Did have a UD problem recently(Unintended Deceleration) when my fuel pump quit on the '86. New pump and an hour later it's back on the road. 
J.


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## - GT style - (May 23, 2003)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (84cgtturbo)*


_Quote, originally posted by *84cgtturbo* »_
'79 *5000 *- 3 speed *auto*

OMGHI2Dieing


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## Veedubboy75 (Feb 13, 2004)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (- GT style -)*

don't ask me why but picturing this








is HILARIOUS. or someone coming to a stop sign only to accelerate through it. LOLOLOL.


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## Mr. Sleeper (Jul 6, 2004)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (Veedubboy75)*

my wife claims it's happened to her recently and it's when she is turning the car sometimes decides to take off.... scary in a parking lot.... She is able to brake and get the car to stop but we've only had the care like 4 days.... lol


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## VAG_Porkchop (Sep 25, 2005)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (99mk3vr6)*

ohh god... please... my dad had an Audi 5000 for 12 years... and passed it on to me.. which was mine for 2 years... that has NEVER happened.... and i have read and discussed this many times with other Audi enthusiats... notice how the cases were only in North America... where automatic transmissions and people who dont know jack s**t about engineering and the way things work, flourish...... 
I just hate when the mainstream tries to talk and judge about something they know nothing about... and blowing it all out of proportion... thus the mainstream idiots, beleive everything that the media says.....
notice who started it: 60 minutes (a mainstream idiot show)
notice the magazines which crushed their claims: car and driver, motor trend, road and track.... all magazines that know what they are talking about when it comes to automotive engineering and are in no way Audi/VW biased....
i would like to see all the people who made lawsuits about the UI and see if they were at all mechnically inclined....
all in all the cause was just bad drivers not wanting to blame themselves...
sorry just had to vent



_Modified by VAG_Porkchop at 5:43 PM 3-28-2006_


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## audiguy06 (Dec 7, 2004)

*Re: Audi 5000, 60 Min Unintended-Acceleration story (VAG_Porkchop)*

I had a 1986 5000 with like 380000 miles on it, with a 3 speed automatic and it never took off on me but I think thats kinda funny because the brakes could always stop that car and whoever cant figure out how to stop a car when the gas pedal is stuck shouldnt be driving.


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