# Why Oh Why?



## ps_golf (Jan 15, 2009)

Im just wondering.... 

Why do so many people dislike the Routan? Is it because its re-manufacturered by Dodge or is it price, or is it something I dont see? Im just wondering what everyones opinion is on this....:beer:


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## GTI-2007 (Mar 27, 2008)

I can't honestly understand why myself. However, on these forums, you tend to hear mostly about the problems or flaws that a vehicle may have as it gives owners a place to discuss and remedy some of these issues.

I've had mine Execline for over a year now, and get what I consider to be good mileage for the size of vehicle (26 mpg average highway, 18 city approx) but then again I come from a full blown V8 Treg where I averaged 16 hwy and 12 city. I find the build quality to be superior in most ways to it's Chrysler siblings, but it does have it's little squeaks and rattles. Overall, when you consider this is a people hauler and not a crossover or a sports sedan, it accomplishes it's purpose quite well with room to spare. I think it presents excellent value for money, especially if like I did, you purchase when the amazing deals are on and they are discounted 8-10K. Go try and buy a honda or toyota with that kind of discount, when in my opinion having driven both, neither is head and shoulders above the Routan. Styling is a personal choice, but value is on paper and I think the Routan meets or exceeds in value. Yes you can buy the comparable T&C cheaper, but the small suspension tweaks and little things here and there are not the same, plus we get 4 years, 80kms bumper to bumper warranty and the Chrysler is only 3/60.

Cheers


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## Scrawnyirishboy (Apr 30, 2010)

While neither condemning nor condoning, there are purists who are going to hate the car because it isn't a "true VW", based on its Chrysler roots. Truth be told though, the Eurovan was a pretty gigantic flop here in the states, for multiple reasons. Realistically MOPAR really kinda cornered the minivan market here in the states and for VW to collaborate with them is kinda practical in that sense, especially after the Eurovan flop. 

Then there's people who just hate minivans, people who don't want to give in to the fact that they're generally always more practical and economical than 3rd row SUV's. 

Now you can get a 2010 Routan SE w/RSE + Nav for around 9,000 dollars off. I can't imagine price is pushing people away from the vehicle.


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## linus96 (May 9, 2010)

Some people blame the legendarily bad ad campaign which starred the legendarily bad actress Brooke Shields. It was a series of some of the worst commercials ever put to film, VW always tried to use quirky ads but fell on their face hard this time.
Not sure if it was the bad ad copy used or the Brooke-factor, but I remember hating them myself when they were being aired. 
Personally we love our Routan and can`t really say anything bad about it, and the new Routan ads with the Andy Griffith Show theme song are crowd pleasers.


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

My wife and I drove a 3rd Row Journey before the Routan. I think my experience with the Journey provides a good comparison to the Routan. The Journey shares many of the Caravan parts. 

We struggled to accept that a minivan was a better fit for our family, more practical and didn't deserve the stereotyping they received. We were crammed into the Journey and as my kids grew it only got worse. We would have never considered a van of any kind were it not for the Routan. The looks and quality feel sold us on the Routan. The useability and practicality we enjoy now only reinforce our new love for the van. We went from needing a car top carrier to fit our gear to wondering what to do with the carrier now that we don't need or use it anymore.

That said, I had a hard time and still do, knowing that it is built by Chrysler. It may not be warranted, but I worry that the long term reliability may be inferrior. I can understand those critical of that idea, which includes myself. No matter how hard Chrysler works on it's quality image, there is a lingering sentiment that Chrysler does not build quality vehicles. Ironically, we loved the Journey, but it was too small and the mileage was not very good considering its size. I can see and feel the difference in quality from the Journey to the Routan. Also, we did have a couple problems with the Journey and so far, no problems with the Routan. The MYGIG went bad and a transfer case seal went bad. And that's in addition to the Brakes and Rotors being junk. So I do think there is a noticeable improvement in quality in the Routan. Like the seats and fitment of the interior, and so far my brakes are good to go. And the Routan drives way better than the Journey ever did. The Routan, so far, is a much more quality vehicle than our Journey was.

I am more and more feeling that VW incorporated some improvements in the overall quality and feel of the vehicle. I looked through the T&C forum and noticed a lot of complaints about some odd ball things and as well a some major issuesl. But you don't see a lot of those complaints in the Routan forum. In this forum, there is more about whether there will be a 2011, what it will look like, what upgrades we can do, etcetera. And only a few problems discussed.

With all that said, I still think the Routan is not a long term vehicle for VW. Unless they decide to cut the MSRP permanently and market the Routan as the least expensive minivan. I just don't see a long term strategy from the news about the 2011 we have so far.


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## ps_golf (Jan 15, 2009)

BUMP, Any Others?:beer:


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## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

IMHO, it's purely "ideological" issue with the Routan. No matter who I talk to or what article I read, the message is clear: "It's a re branded chrysler". 

So what? For the money right now it is the top deal. The styling, finishing (inside trim) and really impressive suspension definitely make the Routan stand out from the dodge family and give it a VW flavor. All the debates on if the car is worthy or not really come down to one point: Does the price, features, quality and resale value suit you? 

For me, I still have to see about resale value -- because of the discounts on new routans its hard to imagine how the resale value will be stellar -- but the future will be the best judge. As to the rest -- I did my research (all 9 months of it) and I concluded that (for me), Routan offered the most for my money. I was willing to pay for better suspension and styling over the dodge line, but I was not willing to pay through the nose for Honda or Toyota (the latter being awful on maintenance cost). I suspect that while i might lose money on resale value when compared to any of those two, but I hope to make up for it with to 0 maintenance cost and 0% financing. 

Ah, and may I also share this with you: 
Insurance Institute for Highway Safety Stats 

Routan has the LOWEST insurance loses which means that Routan owners will enjoy lower insurance premiums (case and point: 6 mo on a 2010 Routan comprehensive 100/300 runs me $150 cheaper than 2005 Hyundai Elantra or 2003 Rav 4 with the same coverage). 

I say -- let the skeptics be loud, for one I enjoy having a car that's not very common - it only helps my resale concern!


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

paf said:


> IMHO, it's purely "ideological" issue with the Routan. No matter who I talk to or what article I read, the message is clear: "It's a re branded chrysler".


 Well put PAF! Everyone seems to be hung up on the whole re-branded deal. It seems like to most that VW sold their soul to the devil. If the Routan is a stepping stone for their own platform than in todays business it is a smart idea. I couldn't imagine the cost to tool up a production line to manufacture a new vehicle--it would have to be ALL NEW, there isn't one chassis that could function as a real Minivan. The Touran is not a real minivan, sorry. And the Eurovan, my local dealer had two on their lot for YEARS!!!!!!!! No offense EV lovers. 

I too think the whole Minivan thing has people hung up. I always said "No way, I'll never own a minivan!". Ask me now, and I'll tell you, I don't know what we'd do with out it! My wife had the biggest hurdle to get over, the looks and gadgets sold me (RSE,NAV, Back up cam, etc) oh and the 8-10K off too.Whatever the new vehicle, it has to fit in our garage. The other vehicles we were looking at were 6K more than MSRP on our van with the same options, even at MSRP the Routan was a better deal. If VW would have taken the Audi Q7 and restyled it, that would have been the vehicle we purchased, I'd love to know the reasoning behind that??????? 

Bottom line: I love our Routan,wether if its considered a VW or Chrysler. It is hands down the nicest looking MV out there! I would have a hard time getting rid of it and we plan on keeping it for a long time. I still have several early 80's Dodge caravans running around by me, they must have done something right, lets hope VW can do the same in the future.


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## OkieRoutan (Nov 5, 2010)

This is my 5th mini-van... The wife and I have 3 kids, and we drive a lot. We've had Astro's, T & C, Venture, Caravan, and now the Routan. When I was stationed in Colorado Springs (Army), I had a soft top Jeep Wrangler (5spd standard). The wife couldn't drive it, so she wanted her own. We traded in an 2000 T&C (fully loaded), and got $4K on the trade in! Got her a Jeep Wrangler... then tried fitting all 5 of us in two Jeeps, to move back home... we figured out that we cannot all travel in a Jeep... Since she couldn't drive mine, I got to trade it in for a minivan. That was the Grand Caravan... put 160K on that one (in 4 years), and traded for the Routan. We've almost always been a Chrysler family, from work trucks to personal vehicles. I, for one, was excited when Daimler and Chrysler merged. I was looking for a Jeep chassis with a Mercedes diesel engine... as you'd be hard pressed to ever kill a vehicle like that. 
To me V-Dub and Chrysler are just as reliable as any other "American" brand cars. Toyota wasn't really chatting me up to buy anything that I could afford, and VW fixed me up with the 0% interest... 
Overall... I'm happy with my Routan (although it's currently in the ER, as it had a serious oil malfunction over the weekend... which I know my dealership will come through on!)


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## OkieRoutan (Nov 5, 2010)

> I suspect that while i might lose money on resale value when compared to any of those two, I might come close to breaking even on lower resale value


 PAF, I think the Honda and Toyota minivans won't be bringing the same return on investment as the older toyota pickups that would go forever. From what I've seen, most people who buy the family van, use it for just that... family. And with that comes usage, breakage, and wear and tear. 

I don't think I've ever bought a vehicle based on an expected rate of return. When I buy something, it's mine, I'll use it, and I intend to keep it. If I don't keep it, and wring the good out of it... well, then I'll sell it / trade it / whatever. But to go into it, knowing that you intend to sell it, not for me... but good luck to you! 

And I do like the fact that it's out of the ordinary. It helps with increasing any cool points that it may have.


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## paf (Dec 6, 2010)

> If VW would have taken the Audi Q7 and restyled it, that would have been the vehicle we purchased, I'd love to know the reasoning behind that???????


 Actually, funny you should mention that because that's what we thought we needed to solve our 7 passenger needs. Ha! 

While the Q7 is a very sweet ride (we've done 3 test drives in hopes of justifying the expense), it still does not solve 7 passengers needs. The 3rd row is very cramped -- there is no way to reasonably fit adults in the back seat. Now everything else (suspension, styling appeal, performance etc...) -- well you just can't compare the 2. Audi is a sweet ride, but if you need space, Routan wins. 

I recall a survey reaching my hands early in the 2000's about a vw minivan -- if I would be willing to pay xxx for this, if it had a feature of this... basically I think VW was probing a market for the Microbus or equivalent. Sadly the surveyed price (and that was 7-10 years ago) was over 36,000 and I am sure that was not received well by the population -- let's face it, a typical minivan buyer has already other expenses that make "rich Corinthian leather" luxury that much more 2nd priority. I think by striking a deal with Chrysler they managed to get the price tag lowered and set stage for re-entry into the minivan market -- and for sure there will be more "genuine" options soon for the VW fans. Overall, I can't see how the Routan would be a bad idea, unless the "numbers" at the headquarters will prove otherwise. 

Obviously a lot of it is confidential information, but does anyone have any detail on the contract VW has on the Routan production with Chrysler?


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## 58kafer (Jun 27, 2007)

paf said:


> Actually, funny you should mention that because that's what we thought we needed to solve our 7 passenger needs. Ha!
> 
> While the Q7 is a very sweet ride (we've done 3 test drives in hopes of justifying the expense), it still does not solve 7 passengers needs. The 3rd row is very cramped -- there is no way to reasonably fit adults in the back seat. Now everything else (suspension, styling appeal, performance etc...) -- well you just can't compare the 2. Audi is a sweet ride, but if you need space, Routan wins.


 My wife has a friend with a Q7 TDI, and they took a road trip with 4 kids. When my wife came home, she had said that her Routan is hands down a more comfortable car (roomier). We had only had our Routan for a few days at this point. I know they are two entirely different platforms of vehicles, but the comparison was based on carrying the same amount of passengers, the 3rd row could handle the 6 year olds. I myself could not justify the price tag, and that comment also made me 30 thousand more reasons happier for the Routan!


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## kyle01 (Feb 20, 2006)

If you want to be depressed take a look at all of the super cool small/mini van offerings from manufacturers like MB and VW. VW alone has so many van/truck body varieties available that it blows my mind! I understand the Eurovan flop, it was/is not an "american style" van. I look at the success of the MB Sprinter lineup (and now the Ford Transit) and hope that would possibly open the door to get a true VW van back over here... 

Until then, we will keep our Eurovan healthy and keep our fingers crossed. Not sure how many Eurovan to Routan converts there are here, but I can say for myself, while the Routan may offer "more" in terms of comforts and refinements... it's no Eurovan.

kyle


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## Silverstone6 (Aug 1, 2002)

*We love it*

My wife & I have had 4 VW's over the years. I'm not thrilled that it isn't a "pure VW" but we still like it and it was the best mini-van offered that we liked; especially for over 9K off. She only has a few thousand miles on our 2010 SLE Premium but so far we are pleased. 

I wish they offered a VW motor diesel option, or at least the Chrysler diesel though


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## luckeydoug1 (Feb 11, 2001)

I was quite upset when I traded in my 2003 Eurovan for the 2010 Routan. We had looked for over a year for a suitable replacement and the Routan was the closest thing out there.

We have not put a lot of miles on the Routan, but 3 months and 1200 miles later I have to say that I am quite impressed with our Routan. In fact, VW will have to make a heck of a replacement to even get me to consider a pure VW van when the time comes.


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## kyle01 (Feb 20, 2006)

we test drove a routan se today... it seemed nice to me, but my wife cried. we only have one kid though, so i guess a minivan isn't a must have... we've just gotten used to having one and we love it. i'm sure our ev is good to go another 100k, but an ev replacement would be nice. the routan isn't really anything like the ev, so i understand her woe.


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## blizno (Dec 11, 2009)

Our Routan is practical w/ 3 boys. It's my wife's office on wheels as well so it serves it's purpose for work and the family. We traded in our beloved Acura TL which we was too small for us. At first my wife refused but after owning it for a year, she loves all of the practical features it has. She does say that our next utilitarian vehicle will be an SUV. Since owning it we have had numerous issues all documented here on Vortex. That being said, VW has always taken care of the issue for us. It is what it is...it's a rebadged Chrysler. Most people don't know so it passes as a "cool" eruo mini van.


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## Cool Dub (Aug 25, 2010)

*Routan is a winner*

The_ trolls _like to bash the VW Routan. 
It's a cool *FAMILY *van. T & C roots mean less ownership cost and aftermarket features are plentiful and cheap.
So if you drive a Golf great, your not ready for a Routan family ride.
_The forum is for those who are and have invested in Routan_. 
~Stay Cool!


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## Cool Dub (Aug 25, 2010)

*Liar*



YumacVW said:


> The transmission is pretty much trash. I used to work at a VW dealer and saw routans all the time with less than 3k, in service for transmission issues or replacement.


 Hater get a life. :thumbdown:
After almost 2 years we have had nothing go wrong with our smooth 6 speed auto stick tranny . 
Enjoy your Jetta, troll .


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

YumacVW said:


> The transmission is pretty much trash. I used to work at a VW dealer and saw routans all the time with less than 3k, in service for transmission issues or replacement.


I don't know about your statement. Personally, I don't care if someone bags on something I like, as long as they have some fondation that is based in reality and they aren't just throwing limited experience or unsound argument without factual support. Here is the problem that I see in what you said.

First, you used to work at VW. No offense, but Routan is a pretty new model for VW when compared to Chrysler's T&C/Caravan. So it's not likely you worked on many Routans ever since they sold very slowly at first. Especially if you "used to work for VW". Second, if you use to work for VW, then I have to wonder why you don't anymore. I am sure it has nothing to do with your ability, but I am just saying. You can't throw out there, I worked for VW for 6 months of the Routan's early life, and base that very very limited knowledge on the entire quality of Routan or Chrysler. I think you just have an axe to grind, so to speak. I mean really, you say they are pretty much trash. This brings up my third concern with your statement. From my experience in talking with real technicians, they usually use technical terms to describe their personal impression of a particular component of a vehicle. Not just, they are "pretty much trash". I have heard techs say, sycros suck because....., etcetera. They like to talk the talk, since they walk the walk, again so to speak.

I really do appreciate honest opinions based upon fact. I respect that. But you can't tell me you saw more than one or two, if any, models with less than 3k miles that needed new trannys. If you said, I work at Chrysler, it would have been more believeable, because they sell alot more T&C/Caravan than the Routan and there is a long history at those dealers. 

Finally, when your statements are contrary to what is being reported here, a forum that promotes complaining and bragging, which argueably complaining prompts this more often than the later, then again, your statement doesn't seem to support reality.

Good luck with that.


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

By the way, I have been pretty critical of VW's deal with Chrysler for the Routan. I had all the fears about a bad Chrysler product. That said, all the fears that I had going into it, have thus far and fortunately, not come to fruition. So far so good from my perspective. And at a heck of a good price. There are some real good stuff in the Routan that Chrysler doesn't have. But I will still complain every so often.

Oh, and I love my Jetta TDI. That's what sold me on the Routan, oddly enough.


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## 09Routan (Oct 2, 2009)

Due to the economic situation at Chrysler and the parts suppliers, there indeed was a bad batch of transmissions (or transmission parts) that made it's way to the Caravan, T&C and Routan vans. Mainly the part suppliers were wanting their money in a more expeditious manner then before. At some point there were some transmission parts that were either a) not Quality checked as thoroughly as possible; b)just a general shortage created by the higher demand on the replacement parts; or c)Those same parts suppliers were not willing/able to continue their chain of free parts to Chrysler and therefore the replacement parts were not being made until the monetary situation was addressed. At any rate there was a supply shortage of good transmission parts. To the owners who were unfortunate enough to have purchased one of these vans, they experienced some lengthy delays in getting there vans back from the service departments. VWofA went out of their way to make things right with most of Routan customers. That's all I will be able to specifically mention about that subject. 

So yeah, there were a few bad trannys. However, I believe that issue has been addressed/resolved with most customers. 

I'm a happy VW Routan owner ! It is the best looking van on the market today. It fits our families' needs / wants very well. The engine is powerful and the fuel economy is great. It is roomy and has tons of creature comforts, bells and whistles. And I have yet to see but a handful of them in my area. I would purchase another one in a heartbeat. I for one am anxious to see what VW will bring to the table to top the Chrysler/Routan once they decide to make it a true VeeDub minivan! Until then, I'm going to enjoy owning a great vehicle. :thumbup:


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## Steveaut (Sep 16, 2010)

Good info. Well said.


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## RogerThat99 (Jan 6, 2011)

Just like any other product, you mostly get people venting complaints and seeking help with problems on any forum. Just take a look at a forum for any Smart Phone and it seems that none of them work properly. LOL.


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## redzone98 (Jun 10, 2004)

cause if its not a Japanese car, people hate it


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## VWDAVID (Jan 12, 2011)

*Love it in light of the field*

Yes, it's a T&C - but with so much more. I looks like a cool ride... acts like a hip minivan... performs solid (so far) and it was the right price. All told, our previous minivan was a T&C (grand caravan) and we got 150K miles out of it... spent $1000 to cover the tranny, which never gave us problems. We even towed with it (3.3 liter engine too)... so say what you may. We love our new Rou and the kids too. 

VW could spend more time refining it, but don't think they will. I only see them going with a smaller version... and yes, it should be what they are know for - an updated VW Bus. That's what they are known for and WOULD set themselves apart from the crowd - again. 










In many ways, they started the concept of the minivan and they should reclaim ownership with one that people would desire above the rest out there today. For me and my family, we likely wouldn't fit in the newer one cause it would be smaller than the current minivans today by a slight percentage that would make us feel we're stepping back rather than forward. My two cents!


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## papa_vw (Oct 17, 2005)

Some of the VW enthusiasts here are all down on the new Jetta too since VW lowered some of the content level to get to a more competitive price point. Understand that Volkswagen tried to go upscale a few years back and it didn't work out that well. Now they seem like they want to become a mainstream auto manufacturer that can challenge the largest companies like Toyota and GM. Vehicles like the new Jetta, and the Routan, will definitely help position VW to move toward that goal. Volkswagen means "the peoples car" so it should have a wide vehicle product line and price points. 

As a former Eurovan owner, I definitely wouldn't mind getting back into a Volkswagen van. I've been watching the Routan since it came out. I've rented Dodge Grand Caravans and Chrysler Town & Country minivans on my job and was pretty pleased with both. The Routan takes the best of those vehicles and makes them only better. I've been wanting one since they came out. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to make that happen yet as I got laid off in early 2009 and have been getting by on temporary work for the past 2 years. 

Each year though, this van seems to get better and better though. :thumbup:


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