# Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives?



## spcycl (Jan 21, 2005)

New 1.8 T Owner (02 Passat) with silly questions...
I have read that VW's have a possible oil sludge buildup prob. I assume this effects the Turbo, in addition to other components...
I have just bought my Passat with 36K miles and I think it was maintained with only conventional oil changes so far (probably not as frequently as it should have been). 
I am changing to synthetic oil at next change and am considering adding an oil detergent to clean up the system right away and try to "start fresh".
Questions:
Will a switch to synthetic at 40K shock the engine and or turbo?
Which synthetic (Mobil 1, Castrol, or Valvoline)?
Will additive such as CD2 engne oil detergent mess up engine/turbo?
Thanks for the input.


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## JettaRed (Aug 14, 2000)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (spcycl)*

Don't use additives. 36,000 miles is not a lot unless the oil was never changed. Synthetic will clean out the engine over time. You may want to make the next couple of changes at 3000 miles and then switch to 5000 miles.
Which oil, see chart.


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## petesell (May 7, 2002)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (spcycl)*

forget additives. synthetic every 5k is fine. mobil1 5w-30 is a good choice & can be bought by the case at costco.


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## DCGULL (Jan 31, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (spcycl)*

A quick search under the heading "Oil" will bring up some very technical information about ASTM standards, approved oils, TSB's and other revelant info.
I agree that 36,000 miles is not enough to anything drastic to the engine- including sludge build up. However, you may get a better drain of the oil on a hot engine....








Your concern about shocking the engine with a synthetic switch is just that- an urban myth! Go ahead, make the switch!!! You and your engine will be happier.
I have been very happy with Mobil 1 5W-40, Pentosynth 5W-40, Amsoil 5W-40....Others on the Vortex have used other oils with great results too.
Congratulations on your new car! Welcome
Dave


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (spcycl)*

The main concern you should have if your engine is sludged up is using an "engine flush" and breaking loose all the sludge hanging onto the inside of your engine where it will end up in your oil pan a subsequently on your oil pump pick-up screen.








Not trying to scare you, but one must be careful when dealing with true sludge cars. 
If it were me, I would remove the valve cover a see if any sludge or baked on heavy/black varnish is present. If not, I would follow the recommendations of those that posted before me- just change to a good synthetic and up you frequency for a few oil changes.
If it is sludged up. Let us know. There are many things to consider.


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## AutoXMan (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (slickfisher)*

I just changed my oil to Mobile 1 5w30 because the manual said to use that if 5w40 wasn't available. But then I found this chart that I should be using 0w30 in Mobile 1. Also, I wanted a higher temperature tolerant oil since I am going to do some track days this summer. The Mobile bottle says the 5w30 is good for 400 degrees. I know this is hotter than the oil will see, but what about hot spots in the turbo? Should I change it again?


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (AutoXMan)*

Just use any of the oils in chart above and forget about it. If you think you need high temp protection use the one of 40s. I use Mobile 1 0W-40. Thinnest oil base stock I've ever run in 20+years of messen' with these cars. Takes some getting use to. 7k miles now on the stuff and no symptoms other than my intake timing chain doesn't rattle at all or for only 1 second now on single digit temp cold starts.
If your worried about high temps etc. Just go to Mobil web site. I think NASCAR is running a 5-30 now.
There are some domestic "exotics" I call them and some very good oils from Europe. But, they are hard to find easily and reliably and/or are expensive. I can get M1 at about any store- Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Auto-Zone, Advance Auto etc and it works great. 
Remember Mobil 1 started the synthetic revolution years ago for a mass marketing producer of petroleum products.
P.S. Moderator does this mean I'm a commercial advertiser now and I have to give you $500?


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## wavinwayne (Jul 18, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (slickfisher)*

If it were my car, I would do an engine flush with Autorx, available @ http://www.auto-rx.com. I would use either Shell Rotella T 5w40 or 15w40 (get @ wal-mart) for both the clean & rinse phase.
After I was done with that, I would use German Castrol Syntec 0w30 or Mobil 1 0w40, both available from Autozone & both VW 502.00 approved. I would use the VW #068-115-561B oil filter & do 5k mile oil changes.
Then, I would periodically add lube control, available @ http://lubecontrol.com/
OK, I've got my flame suit on. Fire away 'texers!










_Modified by wavinwayne at 7:10 AM 2-14-2005_


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## wesismyhero (Oct 11, 2004)

i'm running amsoil european spec full synthetic 5w-40 and i couldn't be happier


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## Mimi03GTI (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (wavinwayne)*

I'm using the AMSOIL 5W-40 European formula that has the following specifications which I change every 6000 miles:
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 503.01 
IMPEX sells it for $5.65 a quart....
http://www.impexfap.com/partli...52776
Good luck on your choice. As long as it is a good quality synthetic that meets or exceeds the specifications for your car, then you should be good to go. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 




_Modified by Mimi03GTI at 12:18 PM 2-14-2005_


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## protijy337 (Mar 12, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Mimi03GTI)*

moble 1 at Walmart in the 5qrt jug $20
Mann, Super-Tech, or Mobile 1 filter (never Fram) $5
that should do it any other ?'s her is a article with tons of info!

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article105.html


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## rodhotter (Dec 24, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (spcycl)*

i have 107000 on my wolfie now amsoil 10-30 and their filter cleans better than stockers i change at 10000 miles no problem change sooner for short trips especially in winter redline mt 90 in tranny


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## SpeedRacerVW (Mar 3, 2000)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (rodhotter)*

Ok, so say you have oil sludge. What is the cheapest, easiest way to get rid of it?
Greg


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## John_E (Oct 6, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (SpeedRacerVW)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SpeedRacerVW* »_Ok, so say you have oil sludge. What is the cheapest, easiest way to get rid of it? 

Unless you have an advanced case, Auto-RX may help, and it's about the cheapest and easiest treatment available. 
Others have reported a modicum of success by using a small bristled baby bottle brush to clean the oil pump takeup screen through the oil drain hole.
If you use any kerosene-based or similar engine flush chemicals, run an abbreviated OCI on your next couple of oil changes.


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## John_E (Oct 6, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (petesell)*


_Quote, originally posted by *petesell* »_ mobil1 5w-30 is a good choice 
 I respectfully disagree. All Mobil1 xW-30 oils are EXTREMELY light at high temperatures, which will lead to excess oil consumption in most of these engines. It is far better to hold out for the 0W-40, which is 43 percent (!) thicker at normal operating temperature.
Since my local Manny Moe & Jack doesn't stock 0W-40, I gave the store manager a lecture about oil viscosities, crankcase fills in high-performance cars, and VW 502.00. I also sent a tactfully worded email nasty-gram to PepBoys corporate, which responded that they will add 0W-40 to their lineup in May. In the meantime, my local AutoZone and Kragen (Schuck/Checker) do stock 0W-40.


_Modified by John_E at 7:23 AM 3-2-2005_


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## Mimi03GTI (Oct 21, 2002)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (John_E)*


_Quote, originally posted by *John_E* »_ I respectfully disagree. All Mobil1 xW-30 oils are EXTREMELY light at high temperatures, which will lead to excess oil consumption in most of these engines. It is far better to hold out for the 0W-40, which is 43 percent (!) thicker at normal operating temperature.

I totally agree with that also. But for $4.99 per quart for the Mobil 1 0W-40, I'd rather have the 5W-40 AMSOIL for around the same price which I pay for shipped to my door as a preferred customer. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 0W to me seems a little too low a number for forced induction cars, just my .02.










_Modified by Mimi03GTI at 12:34 PM 3-3-2005_


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## Blown05GLI (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Mimi03GTI)*

If you can't find the M1 0W40, can you use 5w40 as a substitute?


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## V84LNCH (Aug 29, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Blown05GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blown05GLI* »_If you can't find the M1 0W40, can you use 5w40 as a substitute?

your climate is very similar to where i live, i use 5w30, change 4-5k miles. if you want to spend the $ get royal purple


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## Blown05GLI (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (V84LNCH)*

what would be the difference between 5w30 and using 5w40?


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## AVANT (Jun 25, 2001)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Blown05GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blown05GLI* »_what would be the difference between 5w30 and using 5w40?

Viscosity...
Different environments call for different oil weight.


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## slickfisher (Oct 16, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (SpeedRacerVW)*

If you have a *truly sludged *up engine. There is no easy solution. The only complete and reliable repair is to totally disassemble the engine and clean every part then re-assembly. And I've seen engines so sludged that when the valve cover is removed the sludge forms a mold of the inside of the valve cover a just sits atop the cylinder head completely hiding the valve-train!








If your engine is not that bad (and I suspect not) then the flush and clean oil screen routine over and over is an option if you have a car that the oil pan can easily be removed.


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## Blown05GLI (Nov 14, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (slickfisher)*

So is 5w40 a good oil to use in the North East throught the year? I have yet to find 0w40 M1 by me.


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## jamesb (Mar 14, 2001)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Blown05GLI)*

yes, 5w40 is just fine for the NE. Its actually the widest temperture range oil out there.
One more to the list for 5w40, amsoil
Meets or exceeds the following specifications for domestic and foreign gasoline engines:
API SL, CI-4, CF 
ACEA A3, B3, B4 
BMW LL-01/98 
Daimler Chrysler 229.3, 229.4, 229.5 
Opel Long Life Service Fill GM-LL-A-025 
Opel Diesel Service ill GM-LL-B-025 
Porsche 
Volvo 
Saab 
Volkswagen 502.00, 505.00, 503.01


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## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (jamesb)*

image mirror
-http://is.rely.net/2-1060-9738...g.jpg


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (jamesb)*

Amsoil is my favorite but I must point out that their 5W-40 is not officially certified to meet the specs above. That cost lots of money for them to do and they've done their own testing to be confident it will perform very well in those application, but they haven't gone through the official process of certification.
Some Amsoil oils are certified (I think it's the "XL" oils) but these are actually not as good as their non-certified oils.


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## esoteric vue (Oct 10, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*

allright, these are all suggestions taking in consideration you all have 1.8t's. is there any difference for the vr6? would 5w40 be allright? considering i live in jersey and will be moving up to rhode island for school?


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## Stratus2003 (Sep 27, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (esoteric vue)*

I would run a can of BG44k to clean the fuel system/top end - then do a "hot" drain - then new filter and some dino oil on a highway trip just as a flush (500 miles maybe) then do the "real" oil change. I like the Pentosynth and factory filters. Do an oil analysis in a few months - that information can be very helpful.


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## mtiede (Jun 23, 2005)

I have a buddy that uses this in his twin turbo 300zx drag racing car.
 Won't void any warranty and mixes with your oil great!

He tears his engine down after each race and there is no wear, on a 1000 plus hp engine!!!


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## Onearmedmidget (May 3, 2002)

*Re: (mtiede)*

I used mobil supersyn 5w-30 for 48000km and am now using Amsoil 5w-40 for another 10000km. 0 consumption, engine is running flawless, if you don't race your car 5w-30 is fine.


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## tjl (Mar 24, 2001)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Blown05GLI)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Blown05GLI* »_If you can't find the M1 0W40, can you use 5w40 as a substitute?

5W-40 is actually VW's preferred grade, at least for recent cars in the US. However, Mobil has not explicitly gotten VW certifications like 502.00 for its 5W-40 oil.


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## DizzyP1.8t (Nov 20, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (tjl)*

Forget the additives, and go with *Royal Purple* 5W30. After your second oil change your car will thank you







and you will never use anything else again.


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## rs4-380 (Dec 12, 2000)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (DizzyP1.8t)*

http://www.vw.com/vwcom/conten...s.pdf


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

Elf oils are now being sold in much larger quantities in the U.S. and one of their 5W-40 oils (Excellium LDX) is on the approval list. It's great stuff supposedly and Mobil 1 0W-40 isn't every touching my engine again and hasn't for over a year.


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## Grey Mouser (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_Elf oils are now being sold in much larger quantities in the U.S. and one of their 5W-40 oils (Excellium LDX) is on the approval list. It's great stuff supposedly and Mobil 1 0W-40 isn't every touching my engine again and hasn't for over a year.

I'd like to know why M1 0w-40 is never touching your engine. Did you get a UOA's showing problems?


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## Grey Mouser (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (slickfisher)*


_Quote, originally posted by *slickfisher* »_If you have a *truly sludged *up engine. There is no easy solution. The only complete and reliable repair is to totally disassemble the engine and clean every part then re-assembly. And I've seen engines so sludged that when the valve cover is removed the sludge forms a mold of the inside of the valve cover a just sits atop the cylinder head completely hiding the valve-train!








If your engine is not that bad (and I suspect not) then the flush and clean oil screen routine over and over is an option if you have a car that the oil pan can easily be removed.

Or use Auto-RX: http://www.auto-rx.com/
Read about it on bobistheoilguy.com
Great stuff, ran it in some older motors.. did wonders.


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## meaculpa20v (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (spcycl)*

Mobil 1 5w-30 all the way, only oil that has ever been in my motor, except the stock stuff from the dealer.


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Grey Mouser)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Grey Mouser* »_
I'd like to know why M1 0w-40 is never touching your engine. Did you get a UOA's showing problems?


Because I used to everyday watch the UOA's come in on the bobistheoilguy website with Mobil 1 0W-40 in 1.8T engines and the iron wear rates were generally TWICE as high as other good oils, even Mobil 1 5W-30. The lead wasn't too bad but it still wasn't the best. It also loses viscocity severely in the 1st 5000 miles and then after that it increases due to oxidation (not good to lose or gain). That's how it can go to 10,000 miles and have the right viscosity at that point, because it goes down in 5k and rises back up by 10k. Many other 0W-40 and 5W-40 oils change viscocity in our engines too but there are a few that stay pretty constant (Amsoil 5W-40 is one of them). So the worst thing about M1 0W-40 in my mind is the very high iron wear it allows (100% increase often).


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## Grey Mouser (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_Because I used to everyday watch the UOA's come in on the bobistheoilguy website with Mobil 1 0W-40 in 1.8T engines and the iron wear rates were generally TWICE as high as other good oils, even Mobil 1 5W-30. The lead wasn't too bad but it still wasn't the best. It also loses viscocity severely in the 1st 5000 miles and then after that it increases due to oxidation (not good to lose or gain). That's how it can go to 10,000 miles and have the right viscosity at that point, because it goes down in 5k and rises back up by 10k. Many other 0W-40 and 5W-40 oils change viscocity in our engines too but there are a few that stay pretty constant (Amsoil 5W-40 is one of them). So the worst thing about M1 0W-40 in my mind is the very high iron wear it allows (100% increase often). 

Good deal, I was just curious. Some people like to post things without any factual information. I too read BITOG. Amsoil 5w40 in my ride too








You use Fuel Power or Lube Control at all? FP's great, haven't tried LC yet though.
TyrolKid used to post Redline UOA's for 1.8T motors on there, they looked pretty good too.


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Grey Mouser)*

No I don't use Fuel Power or Lube Control. I stay away from oil additives whether I'm right or wrong for doing so. Redline is my sworn enemy. lol, I've had my rants on here about it before so won't restate them. My only complaint of Amoil 5W-40 is it seems to give me 375 miles to a tank of gas vs 420 miles when I used M1 0W-40 and Valvoline 5W-40. That's enough to make me check into other super oils that have the energy conserving symbol on them (M1 0W-40 does). But if I can't find one, I'll be sticking with Amsoil since it's amazing.


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## Grey Mouser (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_No I don't use Fuel Power or Lube Control. I stay away from oil additives whether I'm right or wrong for doing so. Redline is my sworn enemy. lol, I've had my rants on here about it before so won't restate them. My only complaint of Amoil 5W-40 is it seems to give me 375 miles to a tank of gas vs 420 miles when I used M1 0W-40 and Valvoline 5W-40. That's enough to make me check into other super oils that have the energy conserving symbol on them (M1 0W-40 does). But if I can't find one, I'll be sticking with Amsoil since it's amazing.

Cool deal. I wish I got your sort of MPG. I get, on average 260-310 (depends on the gas I use). If I use shell I get 300+
If I use Exxon or other, I get 250-260.. It's been that way since I got the car. 
Very odd, how about the 'German Castrol'? That has an energy conservation symbol. I can't find it locally but the UOA's look promising.


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Grey Mouser)*

Yeah I hope my drop in MPG is from the oil used and not something else in the engine. I was amazed when I got 420 miles in the summer months before. Some 1.8T's get that and others don't for whatever reasons. Yeah the GC stuff is good but I hate to get hooked on something that may go extinct...I'd be heartbroken.


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## Grey Mouser (Oct 30, 2003)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_Yeah I hope my drop in MPG is from the oil used and not something else in the engine. I was amazed when I got 420 miles in the summer months before. Some 1.8T's get that and others don't for whatever reasons. Yeah the GC stuff is good but I hate to get hooked on something that may go extinct...I'd be heartbroken.

How about ELF 5w40? Is that EC?
http://www.elfmoto.com/elfauto...0.php


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Grey Mouser)*

I haven't been able to find the answer yet. Some research is in order!


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## vgtiw18t (Mar 17, 2005)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*

I use Redline Oil for both engine and Trans, 5w30 for engine is this ok?


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (vgtiw18t)*

I've heard of 1.8T owners using it so I guess it doesn't leak past seals like it did in another brand of car I had before. So I'd say yes it is okay, but it is not worth the extra money in my opinion. It sometimes gives good oil analysis but not always. Amsoil, Lubro-Moly, Pentosin, Valvoline (all 5W-40), Mobil 1 5W-30, and German Castrol 0W-30 are all top performing (based on oil analysis) oils in our engines. As for tranny oil, I've heard of people using the Redline so I guess it's ok there too despite the fact that it leaked past tranny seals in same other brand of car for me.


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## betterwaystodie (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (protijy337)*

why not fram?


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## SnowGTI2003 (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (betterwaystodie)*

Fram is total garbage. Check out the oil filter study online.


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (betterwaystodie)*

Fram makes a lot of junk filters. Many reports of the filters blowing up from high oil pressure during startup. Bad everything on them...filter media, thin wall, cardboard is used in them, shoddy rubber seal. They are straight up ghetto compared to factory Mann or Mahle filters.


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## betterwaystodie (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (SnowGTI2003)*

ok will do got a link?


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## betterwaystodie (Dec 29, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*

cuz i did an oil change on my 03 gli vr6 24 valve then like a day later i had my epc esp and engine malfunction lights go on and now its at the delaership..not leaking oil and level is correct. maybe filter blew apart?


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (betterwaystodie)*

Maybe that filter has too much restriction or something. Best bet is to just replace it with a factory filter and see if problem goes away. Also in the future best to fill up oil to only about halfway between min and max. VW engines don't tolerate oil levels even right at the max amount sometimes...learned this myself the hard way.


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## SnowGTI2003 (Jan 8, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (groftja)*


_Quote, originally posted by *groftja* »_Maybe that filter has too much restriction or something. Best bet is to just replace it with a factory filter and see if problem goes away. Also in the future best to fill up oil to only about halfway between min and max. VW engines don't tolerate oil levels even right at the max amount sometimes...learned this myself the hard way.

I only use the VW filters. They're extremely high quality and not that expensive. Fram filters are just trouble waiting to happen.
I've never had issues filling my oil to the top. In fact if you participate in any type of motorsports activity I would suggest keeping it near the top. High cornering loads and low oil levels can cause the oil pump to suck air. Which of course is a big no-no.


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## groftja (Jul 19, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (SnowGTI2003)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SnowGTI2003* »_
I've never had issues filling my oil to the top. 

My oil level was a hair over the max line and oil was forced out of somewhere (couldn't figure out exactly) and it dripped down on everything under it. So I cleaned everything, drained it to halfway and have had zero leaks since. But I agree that sucking air would be bad but figure (hope) that this won't happen...until I hear of someone this happened to of course.


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## betterwaystodie (Dec 29, 2004)

yeah i dunno what the problem is with this car but i thank you guys for the advice...When i did the oil change yesterday i used mobil one 5w-40 like always and a fram filter. I guess i'll skip the fram next time. I was just wondering if who knows the filter was cocked a bit or something and this was what was up. I used a bit over 5.8 quarts and my engine oil level line reads three quarters with no spill off or leaks...so who knows... the delaership will probably change my oil and it will never happen again...god damn vw's...but ya gotta love em...if anyone else has any opinions I would love to hear them......


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## jcm15 (Jun 27, 2003)

Stick with the original synthetic - Amsoil. I am running the European Blend Amsoil with the Amsoil oil filter and have been for two years in my A4. I had semi-high miles on mine before I bought it, so I ran the flush provided by Amsoil. It was a matter of draining the old oil, put in the flush, run the car at 2,000 RPM (I think that is the correct RPM) for about 20 minutes to let it run through the engine, drain, pour a quart through the system with the plug out to let it drain right through, put the plug back in, fill-er up and enjoy! The way Amsoil recommends doing changes is go about 6 months (or so, depends on the miles) and then replace the filter and simply fill it back up to replace the oil the filter had, and then the next time, do a full change with full drain and refill. Good luck,


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## alexb75 (Dec 29, 2002)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (DCGULL)*

On top of that list you can also find 
Motual 8100 x-cess 5w40 (vw 502.00)
Lubro Moly 5W40 (vw 502.00)
That's all you need.


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## DJWaKe (Dec 14, 2004)

*Recommendations*

Any recommendations for a 2001 1.8T wolf with 110,000 miles. I have just been getting oil changes at the cheap places but I would like to start putting some better oil in. I live in texas so it is 90 degrees+ 8 months a year and I heave a heavy foot as well. Thanks.


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## GriffinMoss (Oct 25, 2002)

*Re: Recommendations (DJWaKe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DJWaKe* »_Any recommendations for a 2001 1.8T wolf with 110,000 miles. I have just been getting oil changes at the cheap places but I would like to start putting some better oil in. I live in texas so it is 90 degrees+ 8 months a year and I heave a heavy foot as well. Thanks.

You may want to go with a 5w-40 oil or if you can find it, a 5w-50 that meets the VW certification.


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## heuer21 (Jul 22, 2006)

*Re: Recommendations (GriffinMoss)*

I use Pennzoil Platnium with Lucas Oil Synthetic treatment...I get 340miles with cruise control on from like 90-100


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## robb. (Feb 28, 2007)

*royal purple and change intervals.*

[old thread resurrection]
i bought a 2001 golf 1.8T in maryland a couple months ago. the original owner had always used synthetic oil, so that's helpful. i put new oil in when i bought the car at 100k. i think it was castrol 5W40 full synthetic, but i don't recall. should i be changing the oil at 5,000 miles or is it really safe to wait until 10k? i mean, i use the turbo (which is APR chipped), but in general i'm pretty gentle on the accelerator.
from what i'm reading in this thread, though, i am curious about royal purple. i had always been a castrol/mobil1 guy, but royal purple is intriguing. does anyone have any thoughts on the oil filter? i will probably go buy a stock filter unless there is something significantly better that isn't a pain to find.
thanks.
robb.


_Modified by robb. at 9:24 AM 5-31-2007_


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## gypsyjetta (Jun 25, 2006)

I use Oil : )


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## crazyass713 (Dec 28, 2006)

*Re: royal purple and change intervals. (robb.)*

im not really a big fan of royal purple because it isnt on vws list... by no means does that make it a BAD oil, i even had it in my car at one time... after having an interesting 30 min. conversation with the distributor for my area for ocean state oil (very large company), i was sold on elf excellium and to be honest, i dont think anything else will be used in any of my cars that i will ever own... what ever you end up using, make it a vw approved oil bc even though there are others that will work, vw spent their time/money figuring out which oils will work for sure, so i would take advantage... just my humble opinion http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## VWplaything (May 7, 2006)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (spcycl)*

I'm not going to bother reading through the whole thread...I'm sure you've received a lot of opinions on this matter, BUT here's the actual truth:
You bought a Passat with a 1.8T. Normally the 1.8T is a pretty good motor...but to make it fit in the Passat they had to redesign the oil pan and make it shallower. I'm sorry to tell you this, but this is the version of the 1.8T that is responsible the reputation of "sludge" for _all _1.8T motors.
The problem is that the oil pan (believe it or not, but this what the engineers at VW finally had to re-learn - it was well known back in the 1980's in the water cooled performance scene) plays a pretty big role in oil temperature regulation. A shallower oil pan holds less oil, thus the motor oil spends more time in the motor, and less time in the pan as it is circulated. VW's fix for your engine is to install a larger capacity oil filter, and use full synthetic 5w-40 oil. With a larger capacity quality oil filter and strict adherence to your regular 5k oil change schedule, you should be able to avoid this problem. Also, Mobil '0w' oils lack the durability to employ 5k oil change intervals and should be changed every 3k instead. '0w' oils are hybrid blends in the sense that the manufacturer is striving to market a compromise between a true racing oil, and a blend suitable for the average street car. Despite any approval, your motor was designed for a 5w synthetic, and that's what you should be using. 
Also - change your own oil. These days you don't save a lot (except -vs.- taking it to the VW dealer) but most of your "quicky lube" joints are putting absolute crap in your motor, and using the cheapest filters available.


_Modified by VWplaything at 3:36 PM 6-1-2007_


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## robb. (Feb 28, 2007)

*Re: royal purple and change intervals. (crazyass713)*

"im not really a big fan of royal purple because it isnt on vws list...i was sold on elf excellium"
the more research i do, the more i am drawing this same conclusion. i found a pretty decent source for excellium LDX (5L bottle shipped for $42). it meets 502.00 and seems to be very highly regarded. the technical data that i read and could understand indicated superior performance.
also, my friend sent me the *complete* list of 502.00 hosted on audi.com (i feel pretty certain this is the official list):

http://www.audi.com/etc/medial...e.pdf
enjoy!
robb.


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## climacticmax (Dec 29, 2007)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (Blown05GLI)*

advanced auto parts over in fairview on grand and fairview ave has m1 0w40 advanced in hackensack has 0w40 pep boys in hackensack has 0w40 autozone on kenedey and 52nd st in north bergen has m1 0w40 every parts place in the area has m1 0w40


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (protijy337)*


_Quote, originally posted by *protijy337* »_moble 1 at Walmart in the 5qrt jug $20
Mann, Super-Tech, or Mobile 1 filter (never Fram) $5
that should do it any other ?'s her is a article with tons of info!

http://www.lincolnsonline.com/article105.html



The K&N filter is the same (internally) as the Mobil 1 filters..


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## sys3175 (Jan 26, 2004)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (VWplaything)*

Actually the engines were designed to be run on oil which conforms to VW's oil standards, which Mobil 1 0w-40 does. 
Furthermore while I don't push my car over the 3000mile mark (and I also do not have a passat) Mobil markets mobil1 as being able to be used in 7500mile intervals. If this could cause damage to your car, they simply would not market it this way. In fact, it took them nearly 20 years of testing before they started to market it this way.

_Quote, originally posted by *VWplaything* »_I'm not going to bother reading through the whole thread...I'm sure you've received a lot of opinions on this matter, BUT here's the actual truth:
You bought a Passat with a 1.8T. Normally the 1.8T is a pretty good motor...but to make it fit in the Passat they had to redesign the oil pan and make it shallower. I'm sorry to tell you this, but this is the version of the 1.8T that is responsible the reputation of "sludge" for _all _1.8T motors.
The problem is that the oil pan (believe it or not, but this what the engineers at VW finally had to re-learn - it was well known back in the 1980's in the water cooled performance scene) plays a pretty big role in oil temperature regulation. A shallower oil pan holds less oil, thus the motor oil spends more time in the motor, and less time in the pan as it is circulated. VW's fix for your engine is to install a larger capacity oil filter, and use full synthetic 5w-40 oil. With a larger capacity quality oil filter and strict adherence to your regular 5k oil change schedule, you should be able to avoid this problem. Also, Mobil '0w' oils lack the durability to employ 5k oil change intervals and should be changed every 3k instead. '0w' oils are hybrid blends in the sense that the manufacturer is striving to market a compromise between a true racing oil, and a blend suitable for the average street car. Despite any approval, your motor was designed for a 5w synthetic, and that's what you should be using. 
Also - change your own oil. These days you don't save a lot (except -vs.- taking it to the VW dealer) but most of your "quicky lube" joints are putting absolute crap in your motor, and using the cheapest filters available.

_Modified by VWplaything at 3:36 PM 6-1-2007_


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## EchoOfGecko (Aug 8, 2000)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (sys3175)*

There are only two filters I would recommend using for the Passat 1.8T. First is the current OEM replacement filter, which is actually the larger capacity TDI filter. VW replaced the original as the recommended filter with this one after the Audi A4 sludge lawsuit. PN is 068-115-561B.
The ideal filter in many opinions is what many call the "Big Kahuna", which is for the 83-87 Volvo 2.4L turbo diesel. This has the same oil pressure bypass as the 1.8T filter and is much larger. The larger filter increases capacity and helps with the oil cooling lost because of the smaller pan as was touched on above.
PN for the Big Kahuna is Napa Gold 1333 or Wix 51333 or the "Mannolator" version of this filter, which is branded as Purolator but made by Mann, Purolator PN L40316.
As for a cleaning regimen, I would deffinitely recommend a round of Auto-RX. Works wonders! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## 03redgti (Feb 18, 2006)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (DizzyP1.8t)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DizzyP1.8t* »_Forget the additives, and go with *Royal Purple* 5W30. After your second oil change your car will thank you







and you will never use anything else again.

thats what i plan on using again for my first oil change after the rebuild.. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## golfito_1.8 (Oct 12, 2007)

*Re: Synthetic Oil? Sludge? Additives? (03redgti)*

i use mobil 1 10w30 fully synthetic been using it for 2 years i have 117K on my 1.8t


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

to those that have had oil analysis, plz chime in on what company you used and your opinion on what you received and what not. thanks


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## Tacosupreme (Jan 22, 2008)

*Re: (derekb727)*

ok 

i see all of you just adhering to numbers 
where is the chart that deals with ambient temperature
im in MIAMI, florida as south as you can get
it doesnt get cold here
so whats the point of a zero weight ?
most of the time its hot as hell
so........do i still go with zero weight or should i be using a 10w-40 or 20-50 or what
i mean maybe if i was in canada id need a 0 weight
but im not
so yea.........
input?


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

anybody on the oil analysis?


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## viasevenvai (May 8, 2006)

this is hilarious, an ongoing discussion about oil for 5 years.
the oil suggestions are all over the place.


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## derekb727 (Dec 22, 2007)

proops to golfito_1.8 for bringing it back from the dead, lol. no idea this post was that old, lol


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## artur vel 2 hoot (Nov 25, 2006)

*Re: (derekb727)*

OMG that discussion was started same year I bought my TT








As a oil analysis I have complete results For AMSOIL 5W40 European Car Formula

































_Modified by artur vel 2 hoot at 11:08 PM 2-17-2010_


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## coreyj (Aug 18, 2006)

*Re: (derekb727)*


_Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_to those that have had oil analysis, plz chime in on what company you used and your opinion on what you received and what not. thanks

blackstone is a good one.


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## TechMeister (Jan 7, 2008)

coreyj said:


> _Quote, originally posted by *derekb727* »_to those that have had oil analysis, plz chime in on what company you used and your opinion on what you received and what not. thanks
> 
> blackstone is a good one.


This is an old thread but since my niece just bought a 2008 VW Jetta 2.0L T with unknown maintenance, I thought I'd share some information that may be of value to other VW enthusiasts.

Used oil analysis is useful for determining if the oil removed from the engine is fit for further service or if it is deteriorating sooner than required for your application. A UOA can not tell you if one oil is better at reducing wear in an engine -contrary to popular belief. To properly determine wear and other engine oil properties requires numerous lab test under controlled conditions and typically costs upwards of $100,000 per oil brand/viscosity tested. A UOA will tell you if you have anti-freeze, water, dirt (silicon) or fuel in the oil. Some H2O and fuel build up are not uncommon especially in Winter or with short drives.

I have used both Blackstone Labs as well as Titan Labs. Both are good IME though Titan discovered some anti-freeze in one oil sample that Blackstone did not. It was from porosity in a casting which required a new cylinder head. 

As far as oils go...and I fully understand that oil borders on a "religion" for some folks, first and foremost I would recommend that people always use the specific oil recommended by their car maker because newer engines have specific chemistry requirements in addition to viscosity requirements. That means that using the incorrect oil can in fact lead to serious engine wear or complete failure. As an example the VW Pumpe Duse engines along with some Audi RS engines require a VW approved 505 01 spec oil. The reason for this is that the Pumpe Duse engine drives individual fuel injector pumps off of camshaft lobes. VW found that conventional oil resulted in excessive wear to the cam lobes so they developed the 505 01 spec oil to eliminate the problem. Audi was so impressed with the oils anti-wear properties they made it mandatory on their RS engines and would void the warranty if you even added a qt. of non-spec oil if the oil was low. There are many examples of other engines such as the 2.0L direct injected engines and fuel pump/cam wear issues from using the incorrect oil. (There can be additional issues beyond oil that causes premature wear in specific engines, also). So it's smart to use only the proper approved oil because the auto maker has in most cases spent millions testing oils to determine the correct chemistry as well as viscosity for your engine.

It's worth mentioning that many brand name oils sold in the U.S. do not meet VW engine oil specifications for specific applications. Most oils sold in the U.S. are meant to meet domestic car engine oil requirements which are typically much less stringent than Euro car maker's oil requirements be they VW/Audi, Porsche, BMW or Mercedes who all have specific engine oil requirements depending on the engine model. As such you may not find the proper oil for your VW or other Euro car at the local auto parts store or at a quick change oil shop where they have you pick your oil based on price... 

It's also worth a brief discussion on "boutique oils". These are oils such as Lucas, Royal Purple, Amsoil, Redline, et al. Most of these oil suppliers do not sell VW tested and approved oils. The oils they sell might be perfectly fine for some engines and a disaster in other engines. Without proper testing and certification by a car maker you have no clue what the oil chemistry is or how it will perform in your engine. Just because your engine doesn't blow up doesn't mean the oil is suitable for your application. It's important to understand why auto makers require that oils be tested and certified to meet specific oil specifications. The boutique oil suppliers routinely change the chemistry of their additive package (which is the most important aspect of any oil) whenever they chose. 

If a new oil spec is released by GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc. then the boutique guys will try to make their oil compatible so they can gain sales on domestic cars because those are the predominant consumers in the U.S. These chemistry changes without extensive testing as an auto maker does, can easily cause engine wear or other issues. Without certification and approval by VW or other car makers, boutique oil suppliers are free to change the oil chemistry as they feel and they do without notice. The boutique oil sellers rarely if ever run all of the appropriate engine oil tests that every auto maker runs for every brand and model of engine. Thus you will see the boutique oil suppliers say that they "recommend" their product for engines requiring oil specs XYZ blah, blah, blah. Recommended is not the same as tested and certified to meet the engine oil specifications.

When challenged on the "recommended" vs. certification of a particular boutique oil for a specific VW or other oil specifications the oil supplier will admit they have never done the appropriate testing and/or never submitted the oil to VW for official testing and certification or that it didn't pass if it was submitted. In the end when push comes to shove the boutique oil suppliers will state that they have a million dollar warranty to protect customers in the event of an oil related engine failure. What they don't tell you is that you are the one who must hire tribologists and engineers to prove that the oil caused the engine failure and if you are able to prove this, then they will pay for the engine only. You are responsible for all associated costs related to the engine failure from an oil that is "recommended" but not certified or even tested by VW or other Euro auto maker. If an oil supplier can't afford to have their oil properly tested and certified to the specs required for your engine can you afford to do the testing for them?

People are free to use whatever oil makes them feel warm and fuzzy. Don't believe the advertising hype used to sell oil as most of it is meaningless. When you see a company claim one oil has three or five and twenty times the wear protection of another, it's generally from an obsolete industry test that doesn't even apply to your specific model engine. There are certainly differences in engine oils and some very popular brands may NOT meet VW or other engine oil specs and may NOT deliver as good of performance as other approved oils. It's almost impossible for a consumer to really know what an oil is doing in there engine unless they see premature wear or they spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on proper industry oil testing such as the car makers do. In addition some well known brands of oil use Euro formulations in one particular engine oil which might meet VW specs and perform just fine while their domestic oil formulations may be totally unsuitable for use in a Euro model engine and not be certified for any of these engines.

So now we have come full circle and we can discuss oil change intervals which is where UOA is the definitive answer on if your oil is still suitable for continued use or if it needs to be changed more frequently. Some people still believe that changing the oil every 3,000 miles is the end all or be all in auto engine care. History has shown this is not the case. In addition some folks believe that they can use any oil as long as they change it every 3,000 miles. This too is untrue as demonstrated by severe engine wear in engines where the improper specification/chemistry oil has been used. Then we come to the boutique oil "misnomer" where they try to convince consumers that the Magnusson Moss Act allows the consumer to use "any oil" they chose and still maintain their new car warranty. This too is untrue. If you read and understand the Magnusson Moss Act it states that a consumer can use any oil or component that meets the OEM warranty requirements/specifications and still maintain their new car warranty. Since VW and other Euro car makers require that any oil used be tested by them and certified to a specific oil specification and that no changes in the oil chemistry is allowed without re-testing of the oil to confirm the new oil chemistry meets all of the specific oil specifications, then using non-certified oils most definitely voids your new car warranty.

Hopefully the above information will spare some VW folks from severe engine wear or serious engine damage from using the incorrect oil for the application.


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