# 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors???



## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

I need to know what injectors to run on a supercharged 2.0 8V, will stock work or should i move up to G60's??? Any other suggestions


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (DubTron41)*

I have G60's where in portsmouth do you live i live there as well?
ohh its even.... dude just get the green tops i belive they are 280 ish cc gonna do the bahn brenner hunh ....when we all gonna roll . 


_Modified by EvilVento2.oT at 6:30 AM 5-25-2004_


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (DubTron41)*

How much power are you trying to make? Is your engine going to be intercooled? What octane gas are you able to find in your area? Finally, have you dropped the compression ratio? Or, is it still stock? 
The G60s may work for you if you want no more than 200hp or so. The problem with them, though, is that they're all very well used. Wanna roll the dice to save $60 versus buying new 30lb? That's your call, of course.


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (Scott F. Williams)*

Use stock injectors with an adjustable fpr, 4-5 bar should do you fine for 10 psi. If not G60 will be more than enough. 30# are just overkill and will give you nothing but problems without an afc of some sort. Also if I remember correctly you can get some more cc's out of Vr6 injectors get some if there free. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_Use stock injectors with an adjustable fpr, 4-5 bar should do you fine for 10 psi. If not G60 will be more than enough. 30# are just overkill and will give you nothing but problems without an afc of some sort. Also if I remember correctly you can get some more cc's out of Vr6 injectors get some if there free. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

First of all, any change in injector size or fuel pressure should be complemented with remapped software. Otherwise, once the engine goes into open loop mode, it will invariably run either somewhat rich or lean. Or, it may very well run rich in one part of the rev/load range and lean in another.







Furthermore, a boosted engine has far different requirements when it comes to ignition timing than it does in normally aspirated form. So, even if the fuel curve were ideal with the stock injectors, the ignition would still be way off.
The 30lb injectors provide only a marginal increase in flow capacity and (when chipped) can be utilized with stock-like driveability, emissions, and reliability. As for the VR6 injectors, they are the same size (19lbs) as those in the 2.0l 8v. Why bother?
The stock 2.0 8v or VR6 injectors will flow about 260cc when bumping the fpr up to 5bar. Compare that to the G60s which are usully about 295cc (at 3bar) and the 30lb which output 315cc (at 3bar). You're only looking at a 12% and 17.5% difference in flow, respectively. With a new chip, even 42lb (440c) will run very smoothly!
Finally, keep in mind, that Bosch specifically recommends that fuel rail pressures be kept *below* 5 bar. If you run 10psi and a 5bar fpr, the rail pressure will hit around 5.7bar. That's not enough to ensure problems, but why hack when you can tune?
Can one get away with adding 10psi while bumping up the pressure (with stock injectors)? Sure! Is it particular safe, smart, or economical in the long run? No way. When brand-new 24lb and 30lb injectors can be had for just over $100... Why mess around?







Do it right or don't do it at all.


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## ALpHaMoNk_VW (Mar 26, 2001)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (Scott F. Williams)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scott F. Williams* »_First of all, any change in injector size or fuel pressure should be complemented with remapped software. Otherwise, once the engine goes into open loop mode, it will invariably run either somewhat rich or lean. Or, it may very well run rich in one part of the rev/load range and lean in another.







Furthermore, a boosted engine has far different requirements when it comes to ignition timing than it does in normally aspirated form. So, even if the fuel curve were ideal with the stock injectors, the ignition would still be way off.
The 30lb injectors provide only a marginal increase in flow capacity and (when chipped) can be utilized with stock-like driveability, emissions, and reliability. As for the VR6 injectors, they are the same size (19lbs) as those in the 2.0l 8v. Why bother?
The stock 2.0 8v or VR6 injectors will flow about 260cc when bumping the fpr up to 5bar. Compare that to the G60s which are usully about 295cc (at 3bar) and the 30lb which output 315cc (at 3bar). You're only looking at a 12% and 17.5% difference in flow, respectively. With a new chip, even 42lb (440c) will run very smoothly!
Finally, keep in mind, that Bosch specifically recommends that fuel rail pressures be kept *below* 5 bar. If you run 10psi and a 5bar fpr, the rail pressure will hit around 5.7bar. That's not enough to ensure problems, but why hack when you can tune?
Can one get away with adding 10psi while bumping up the pressure (with stock injectors)? Sure! Is it particular safe, smart, or economical in the long run? No way. When brand-new 24lb and 30lb injectors can be had for just over $100... Why mess around?







Do it right or don't do it at all.
















any advice that this man gives I would study, ehen it comes to injector sizing........he is the MAN!!


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## Ghetto-8v (Jun 3, 2001)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (ALpHaMoNk_VW)*

I am only running 10-15 psi and I have 370cc's from Scott.


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## EvilVento2.oT (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (Ghetto-8v)*

g60's fmu chip , 3bar fpr


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (EvilVento2.oT)*

The point here is Scott is trying to sell a product PERIOD. Do what you want. Have fun getting 10 AFR with your 30# injectors














. 
''With a new chip, even 42lb (440c) will run very smoothly!''





















I wish it was that easy



_Modified by MDTurborocco at 6:11 AM 5-28-2004_


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_The point here is Scott is trying toi sell a product PERIOD. Do what you want. Have fun getting 10 AFR with your 30# injectors














. 


Eli, I resent your implication that I am putting commercial interests before the welfare of the VW hotrod community. I've made claims and backed them up with *facts*. You would have my respect if you made a point to refute what I've said with theory, calculations, etc. Instead you're trying to call me out as if I'm some shady character.
All I'm suggesting is that enthusiasts take care of their fueling needs in the same manner that factory engineers do it. Simply jacking up fuel pressures on little injectors is cheap (in the short run), but sloppy. With a properly-programmed chip you can easily get an ideal air/fuel ratio with even 42lb injectors. Folks with standalone frequently tune 55lb high-impedance and pass emissions. Those able to run low-impedance often do it with *72lb* without hassles.








Remember, every force-induction engine is normally aspirated until the boost hits. So, if you were even remotely correct, everybody would have a 10:1 AFR at idle. Do they? No. Think this through a little bit before you expose your lack of understanding any further.
What you're actually suggesting is that you know more than the factory, more than every competent engine management tuner, and more than every hotrodder who has successfully implemented solutions like those that I've described.
Check the attitude, my man. There are no hidden agendas here.


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## vw_Brian (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (Scott F. Williams)*

that there is funny^^^
whats even better is the fact that 100 percent of the things that he said are true...so only a true fool would attempt to reply in a nature that implies that what he said wasnt true...and no this isnt brownnosing...because i hardly know him.....think before you talk
Brian


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## vw_Brian (Nov 26, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (vw_Brian)*

edit....he will need bigger injectors of some sort.....my 26# g60s went static at 14 psi at 3.5 bar.....they will barely fuel 10 psi efficiently...at 4 bar....and for the record...running small cc injectors at high pressure just to get them to barely be under max duty cycle at redline isnt the cool thing to do








Brian


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (vw_Brian)*

can someone tell me about running 30lb injectors @ 4bar? can i properly tune for 12-15psi range?
i will be running 6psi for a while, as that is what my wastegate is set at


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (vw_Brian)*

Im just trying to give good advice for a ns charger at 10psi. The stock setup comes with a chip and use of factory injectors correct.. I think you should buy a neuspeed chip for the charger and run stock injectors at a higher pressure or go to a larger injector. 440cc would def. be overkill and unecessary. I didnt know Scott carried 24# injectors so I would say the best bet is 24# injectors and the stock 3 bar fpr. Sorry if I pissed anyone off


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (MDTurborocco)*

It's all good, my man. I don't think that either of us can really offer a lot more advice, however, until the original poster shares information about his set up. We don't even know for sure if this is a Neuspeed charger. It could be a Lysholm or a G60. We don't know the compression ratio, whether or not the engine is intercooled, fuel octane, the engine management system, etc. I'll reserve further comment until that info is supplied. Otherwise, we're just guessing.


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_can someone tell me about running 30lb injectors @ 4bar? can i properly tune for 12-15psi range?

At 4bar, your 30lb injectors will output about 34.5lbs or 364cc. Is that enough? Well, it depends on how you've set up the rest of the engine and which engine you're discussing in the first place. A 1.8T will need far less fuel to make the same power as a 2.0 8v, for instance. What are you building and how much power do you want at that 12 - 15psi?


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## the4ork (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (Scott F. Williams)*

my 2.0 is a pretty basic setup...
stacked gaskets, k26 turbo, audi 5k modded manifold, audi wastegate, 1st gen bov, 4 bar, 30lb injectors, digi1, sns will be custom burning my chip for 30lb and 4 bar. audi 5k top mounted IC, 91 octane (all we get in cali







)
i want to make around 230whp


_Modified by the4ork at 6:12 PM 5-28-2004_


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## MDTurborocco (Aug 24, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (the4ork)*

Since your running Digi1 you can get away with bigger injectors easier than with motronic(no map sensor). Talk to SNS for more info on their software, I beleive they use a 3.5FPR but thats no biggie. Your 30# should work perfect. Here is something for comparison:
G60T: 30lb injectors, 3.5bar fpr, 260 cam, T3 60 / .48
Port n' polished head Running 14PSI
Dyno Results:
176.5WHO
213.1WTQ
Your crosslow head will flow better for higher #s though. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
For ''DubTron41'' please list your ecu motronic, digi1..... and what charger your going with, I assumed it was ns on motronic but I very well could be wrong. These questions are crucial to further help you cause that will determine your rough hp and what injectors you really need. 



_Modified by MDTurborocco at 7:30 PM 5-28-2004_


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (the4ork)*


_Quote, originally posted by *the4ork* »_stacked gaskets, k26 turbo, audi 5k modded manifold, audi wastegate, 1st gen bov, 4 bar, 30lb injectors, digi1, sns will be custom burning my chip for 30lb and 4 bar. audi 5k top mounted IC, 91 octane (all we get in cali







)
i want to make around 230whp

Hmm... you've got weak octane, only a modestly capable intercooler, and stacked gaskets to lower the compression ratio... I think to produce 230whp (or about 265hp at the crank), you'd need something like 380cc injectors at 4bar. That, I figure, would result in close to an 85% dutycycle (which is on the verge of going static). A better idea would be to use 440cc injectors at 3.5bar. This would make your 230whp while pushing the injectors to only 80%.
Btw, I've assumed a brake specific fuel consumption level of .55 for these estimates. That's a reasonable guess, I figure.


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (MDTurborocco)*


_Quote, originally posted by *MDTurborocco* »_
For ''DubTron41'' please list your ecu motronic, digi1..... and what charger your going with, I assumed it was ns on motronic but I very well could be wrong. These questions are crucial to further help you cause that will determine your rough hp and what injectors you really need. 


Im running a BMS paxton supercharger kit that I bought off a vortexer, he is sending me a neuspeed Rising FPR as well as a chip that was burnt by neuspeed for the charger because it was originally designed for an OBD 1 application. He said the chip was burnt for 310's? he was running stock injectors w/ the neuspeed FPR as his daily driver and it ran well, then he took out the FPR and is currently running 310's (Im assuming he mean 315's) and he said it run well but a little rich. I was going to purchase an adjustable FPR and a wideband, Most of my friends running boost (turbo) use G60's so i was going to try that with the FPR. I am also looking into getting a chip burnt, the blower runs 9-10 psi.......any suggestions oh and its a 1998 Jetta 


_Modified by DubTron41 at 4:30 PM 6-8-2004_


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## the awesome (Oct 7, 2003)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (DubTron41)*

TTT give me some positive manifold pressure love


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## Scott F. Williams (Oct 14, 2000)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (DubTron41)*

The most reliable combination would be the G60 (26lb) or 30lb injectors, a 3bar fixed rate fpr, and remapped software to manage it all. There's no need to invest in a wideband O2 sensor if your dyno operator has one. Btw, 310cc and 315cc are effectively the same thing. Rounding errors going from lbs/hour to cc/minute account for the discrepancy.


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## Jefnes3 (Aug 17, 2001)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (DubTron41)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DubTron41* »_I need to know what injectors to run on a supercharged 2.0 8V, will stock work or should i move up to G60's??? Any other suggestions










Scan down this post a little for my note on injector sizing...
FI FAQ

No need to keep re-typing the same ish...
Jeffrey Atwood


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## GTijoejoe (Oct 6, 2001)

*Re: 10 psi on 2.0 8V what injectors??? (Scott F. Williams)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Scott F. Williams* »_
Can one get away with adding 10psi while bumping up the pressure (with stock injectors)? Sure! Is it particular safe, smart, or economical in the long run? No way. When brand-new 24lb and 30lb injectors can be had for just over $100... Why mess around?







Do it right or don't do it at all.
















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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