# VRT: What does it take to make 500hp?



## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

I have a Kinetic Stage I sitting in a box with all I need almost to run 10 PSI for next summer.
Missing a spring to make 10 psi basically.
Now that the car is in the gargae I am getting ahead of myself with my thoughts and I am wondering, what does it take to make 500hP vrt?
I am thinkg that the C2 Stage II #42 and 440CC injectors for fueling could not do it.

List of things I **think** are needed are:
- injectors, not sure which ones. (630cc siemens?)
- Upgraded Fuel pump (not sure if walbro will do)
- Larger 4" Maf Housing ( C2 ??)
- Larger 4"Cone Filter Intake (C2 or other?)
- 8:5:1 Head Spacer
- Chip (will a chip work in this case?)
Would this work?
If so cool....If not could you point out what would need to be changed or from where the parts would be sourced from?
Is standalone easy to tune and install, and is it user friendly?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (doobsta)*

500 crank hp is about 435 whp so its possible without going to stand alone management.
I know there are a few guys running C2 tuning & Eip tuning that have made that on basically a stock block with a head spacer and arp hardware.
I would recommened a large turbo so you can make more power with less boost. Think T61, T66, T67, 35R or 40R.
You would need to run a very large FMIC or use an A/W setup. Adding a WAI setup will also help.
I think you would be maxing out the 42# injectors with that amount of power so larger injectors would be needed such as 50# or 60#
I believe that the popular walbro and bosch inline pumps should support 500hp but I wouldn't go much past that.


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

at what psi do they make that power?
are they using 8:5:1 HG or 9:1?
also, C2 Stage II chip will work 630CC injectors?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (doobsta)*

You will need to get a custom tune from Jeff for the 630cc injectors. Most are running a 8:5:1 head spacer.


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

custom tune as i Have to drive across the country to see him, or he already has the maps setup for this config and just needs to burn me a chip?


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: (doobsta)*

You would have to ask Jeff. I believe there are only 3 or 4 cars running his 630cc tune and all have been custom.


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_You would have to ask Jeff. I believe there are only 3 or 4 cars running his 630cc tune and all have been custom.

thx.
I wonder if they are all the same chip or each one is an individual tune.
Individual tune would mean he needs the car to do it.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (doobsta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_
I wonder if they are all the same chip or each one is an individual tune.



_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
*all have been custom*.


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## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_500 crank hp is about 435 whp so its possible without going to stand alone management.
I know there are a few guys running C2 tuning & Eip tuning that have made that on basically a stock block with a head spacer and arp hardware.
*I would recommened a large turbo so you can make more power with less boost. Think T61, T66, T67, 35R or 40R.*
You would need to run a very large FMIC or use an A/W setup. Adding a WAI setup will also help.
I think you would be maxing out the 42# injectors with that amount of power so larger injectors would be needed such as 50# or 60#
I believe that the popular walbro and bosch inline pumps should support 500hp but I wouldn't go much past that.



A bigger turbo will not make much more power then a proper sized one.
*The head will not flow more just because you have a huge turbo.*
The small gain from less back pressure and a litte better charge density will not do "that" much.
So get a turbo for 500hp = GT3076 or GT35 and you will get best of both worlds .
500Hp will propably require 24-25psi of boost.
And your tranny will not handle the abuse.
Ive killed ALL gears in my 02J before i went with AP-tuning gear kit 
*And to make this easy call Jeff and ask him what he require for the setup.*


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## tekstepvr6 (Aug 15, 2001)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (foffa2002)*


_Quote, originally posted by *foffa2002* »_A bigger turbo will not make much more power then a proper sized one.
*The head will not flow more just because you have a huge turbo.*

I've seen a 60-1 make 30whp less then a 35R on the same tune, setup and boost pressure. I agree with you that head work should help with flow but bigger turbos on VRs shouldn't be ruled out.

_Quote, originally posted by *foffa2002* »_And your tranny will not handle the abuse.
Ive killed ALL gears in my 02J before i went with AP-tuning gear kit

If you go with a larger turbine housing (more lag) you shouldn't run into this problem as it puts less shock on the trans as boost comes in more linear. The smaller housing will give you full boost alot sooner but will also put alot more stress on your trans. I've been making 400whp+ on an O2J for 25K miles running a 60-1 with an .81 housing.


_Modified by tekstepvr6 at 7:04 PM 12-21-2006_


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## maxslug (May 22, 2005)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (doobsta)*

Money.. Lots of money.


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (maxslug)*

02a is stock vr6 mk3 trans.
02J is trans from a mk4 vr6?
loving this thread....would like more people posting about their insane vrt setups putting out 500 or so hp


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## 16plus4v (May 4, 2006)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (doobsta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_02a is stock vr6 mk3 trans.
02J is trans from a mk4 vr6?

02J is also mk4 1.8t. Otherwise you are correct.


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## PrezeS-E36 (Apr 20, 2003)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (16plus4v)*

And I have 6speed 02M for VR that should be ok, pm if intrested


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## foffa2002 (Jan 14, 2003)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (tekstepvr6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *tekstepvr6* »_
I've seen a 60-1 make 30whp less then a 35R on the same tune, setup and boost pressure. I agree with you that head work should help with flow but bigger turbos on VRs shouldn't be ruled out.
If you go with a larger turbine housing (more lag) you shouldn't run into this problem as it puts less shock on the trans as boost comes in more linear. The smaller housing will give you full boost alot sooner but will also put alot more stress on your trans. I've been making 400whp+ on an O2J for 25K miles running a 60-1 with an .81 housing.

_Modified by tekstepvr6 at 7:04 PM 12-21-2006_


its a compromise http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

like the other guy said, you'll need a lot of money...on the trans, I'm guess you've got a mk4 so you can do a number of things with relative "ease" like put in the o2m which is much much beefier than any o2a (mk3 vr) or o2j (mk4).
My "insane" setup is pushing a whopping 250-280whp







with an AMAZING 9lbs of boost hah.
and I've spent a pretty penny on my setup over time.


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (16plus4v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *16plus4v* »_
02J is also mk4 1.8t. Otherwise you are correct.

So a 1.8t 02J is 6 speed right?
This fits on a MK3 12V Vr?
Is this tranny better then then 02A?


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (PrezeS-E36)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PrezeS-E36* »_And I have 6speed 02M for VR that should be ok, pm if intrested

02M 6 speed is from what car?
Is it beefier than both the 02A and 02J?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: VRT: What does it take to make 500hp? (doobsta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_
So a 1.8t 02J is 6 speed right?
This fits on a MK3 12V Vr?
Is this tranny better then then 02A?

O2J is the 5 speed. The o2m is the 6 sp.
I just finished an o2m swap into my mk3 (see sig for what is involved)...it's not that easy but very doable.
From what I've heard, the o2j is a bit strong than the o2a and is an easier fit...


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## doobsta (Aug 25, 2003)

*Re: (nater)*

I have an mk3.
Th trans is a seriously weak point with anything over 300hp from what I have read and seen. Even if its got the peloquin in it.


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

*Re: (doobsta)*


_Quote, originally posted by *doobsta* »_I have an mk3.
Th trans is a seriously weak point with anything over 300hp from what I have read and seen. Even if its got the peloquin in it.

Trust me, I've read the same stuff you have and had the same concerns. 
You can go with the aptuning gearsets (not cheap and utilize the same o2a box and design) or go with a proven tranny that is oem in the O2M box. Only problem is you end up with 6 gears that are fairly close together. Nice setup and holds power.
Look at the high power turbo r32's. They have AWD (more stress on tranny) and from what I've read (and after talking to Rich at EIP) I came to the conclusion that it was my best bet.
Maybe you want to go that route?


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (nater)*

I wouldn't trust an O2M with over 400whp, and the final driveis too short. Its not a bad choice, but the AP Tuning gears have been very reliable for me and everyone I've seen use them. Has anyone broke any of the APT gears yet?
I used to have a mk4 24v vr6 with the O2M, and its definitely the best VW tranny stock. Not a bad choice, and should last a decent amount of time depending on power.
A lot of the reason guys with O2As strip gears is because the trannys have over 70,000 miles on them in most cases. So after some turbo abuse they just go. The stock gears hate spinning and then hooking, and repeated highway pulls.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

how loud are the aptuning gears?


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## nater (Apr 10, 2000)

I think the aptuning gears are good too...but what made me go o2m was the fact that it's stock and I can always find replacement gears somewhat easily and not depend on aptuning.
There were other factors also, but that was one of the main ones.
Final drive is subjective tho...I still love it. I kinda like the way it is.
Not good if you plan on going to the track tho (which I've never done)


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Soupuh)*

The APT gears are pretty loud, but I love the sound they make. 
They offer different first gear ratios though. I went with the 3.00 1st gear, which is a better for a daily driver, but the 2.67 1st is best for the track. 
My car feels faster with the gears also, because the gears are pretty tall and I can put power to the ground better. 2nd redlines at 80mph. 
I think HPA might have a taller final drive for the O2M also, but your prob right, for a daily driver the stock final would be more fun.
The main problem with getting the gearset, is your tranny still feels like a floppy mess when shifting. The O2M has a lot better feel to it.


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*

Is AP making a 5th gear yet?


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

Not yet.


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## Volkswagen2NR (Nov 17, 2003)

*Re: ([email protected])*

do they make gears for the o2j?


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Not yet.

ridiculous.


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## [email protected] (Mar 16, 2004)

*Re: (Volkswagen2NR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Volkswagen2NR* »_do they make gears for the o2j?

Yes. 
Cabzilla - I can't believe they still don't have it myself. Although, I heard they stopped producing the unneccesary 1st - 3rd kits. 4th was the first gear to go on my car. 
And I cringe everytime I shift to 5th running 20psi.


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## shortshiften (Mar 29, 2005)

quaife makes gear sets. there great. that and a nice final drive and youll be set.
quaife has a gear/ speed calculator on there site where u can figure out what rpms youll be at and what your top speed is. 
i love the six speed because the rev drops are just right and you stay in the power band and stay in boost


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## cabzilla (Jan 3, 2000)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Yes. 
Cabzilla - I can't believe they still don't have it myself. Although, I heard they stopped producing the unneccesary 1st - 3rd kits. 4th was the first gear to go on my car. 
And I cringe everytime I shift to 5th running 20psi.


Just be happy you're only making 389wtq @ 20psi. I'm 100wtq up on that @ 20 pounds. 5th wouldn't last a second.


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## Soupuh (Apr 29, 2005)

*Re: (cabzilla)*

you poor thing


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