# OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA



## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

After much reading and research, especially in the 50 page hybrid parts swap list (amazing thread, by the by; a touch circular though...read it first, don't ask repeated questions 5324563 times), I've decided that this is for me. I've got a few questions, though and the majority of these hybrids seem to be OBD1.
It's a bone-stock MK3, 52xxx mile California car. The current motor runs well and I wasn't sure that I wanted to screw with it (if it ain't broke mentality), but ambition got the better of me and I'm going to move forward with this.
I plan on finding myself a 9A B3 Passat (2.0L) donor, which I will molest for parts (oil pump, intermediate shaft, whole top end, block off plates, hoses. etc.), hopefully not in too bad of condition.
1) Running OBD2 with a SAI pump is going to add an element of difficulty, primarily because of where the air pump actually pumps the air (above the exhaust manifold).



There is a flange-looking bit on that valve that looks like it might have something to do with the head, or is that just a way to fasten that valve in place to the head? I'm not worried that the pump itself mounts to the head, that can be moved.
I really like the idea of sticking to OBD2 because of how easy it is with the code reader I've already got, but if this SAI is going to be a real PITA, then I'll just swip an OBD1 ecu from the wreckers and use that.
For the exhaust manifold, I'll be able to find a way to stick a connection into the manifold itself, but I was wondering what the 8v head provides for that valve, and if the 16v head has the same capabilities? Would I be better to scratch the whole SAI system/code from the OBD2 ecu, and how?
2) The car has cruise control which I use quite a lot and I would like to retain. I'm sure the specifics of it, but I have a feeling that the throttle body has a good chunk of it's workings inside of it.


I do like the feel of the twin throttle body plates in the 9a motor and would like to use that, so would it be a matter of making sure that the cruise worked on the donor engine, was an automatic and then swapping the sensors, or should I just use the 8v tb for simplicity and make the req'd adapter plate? 
3) Lastly, and most importantly, I'm going to running NA (for now) and would prefer to use ABF pistons over the 9a's. I'm probably close to, if not the cheapest SOB around, and although BBM makes a great set of ABF's, they are a bit of $$. My sister is going across the pond on a month and has an address right outside of London that something could be shipped to. Does anyone know any decent/not-gonna-punk-me overseas shops they could recommend where I could get a set of ABFs and rings (and possible an intake cam) for not too much. Not necessairly looking for forged.
My goal is 150whp, so I'm thinking with the 16v head, ~10-10.5:1 cr and properly tuned should allow me to reach that, non? 
Any help would be great!
edit: because I'm an r-tard and messed up the pictures











_Modified by kingowe at 11:48 AM 11-16-2008_


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

I also have an OBDII ABA with SAI in my 1996 GTI. I have started thinking about doing the 16v ABA setup as well. I am going to be watching this thread since I may be going down this same road in the future. Good luck. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

the easiest way i can think of/what i did is re-program your ECU through VAG-COM to think its pre-2ndary air injection. that way when you yank it, your ECU isnt looking for it so no CEL.
and 150whp with all stock components? could happen, prob more 130 range.
im looking to hit 150 with a P&P 2.0 head, 260/276 schrick split cams, 50mm intake and ABF pistons hopefully w. C2 software.


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (vwjettalikewhoa)*

So you have already done this, that's great. You were able to keep the stock ecu and reprogram it to think it wasn't there? How tough was it to do through vag-com. My code reader is probably the cheapest one around and I'm not sure that it will be able to alter/scratch the SAI; do all code readers have the capabilities to re-program the ecu do you think? And by doing this the ecu didn't revert back to some pre-programmed, OBD1 state as a back-up, right?
So have you done the 16v head swap, or just ditch the SAI? If you did the swap, did your car have cruise control before and did you just use the same throttle body?
Anyway, I'm toying with the idea of upgrading the camshafts (or maybe just the intake), but I'm afraid that getting a more agressive one will bugger up the smooth low-end idle, lol. Is the 260 intake likely to allow the engine to idle as if stock, or will it stutter and burble a little bit. 
Hopefully stock management, ABFs, a good polish (maybe a port, too) and a cam or two will get me close to 150, but that might be a little bit ambitious







.
Thanks for the info!


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## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

thats a lot of questions haha
but yes thats correct i kept the stock ECU and reprogrammed it, its not that hard to change in VAG-COM theres step by step instructions floating around on the site.
A code reader cannot alter only clear and reset codes, so you will need to get your hands on the VAG-COM program or make a friend with someone that has it, and nope the ECU hasnt reverted or altered anything except for the fact it just does not look for the air pump now.
Im in the process of gaining all the parts for my 16v head swap, but i ditched the SAI about a year ago just because it was annoying and cluttered up the bay.
as far as the TB/cruise goes, my car has cruise, it doesnt work, and i have no intentions on trying to fix the horror that is the MK3 cruise control set up. but im going to use my stock OBDII ABA TB w/ the BBM adapter. 
If you are OBDI you can use an automatic passat TB or a VR TB (i think)
With just a chip tune you can keep your idle pretty well w/ most cams, the reason im running the 260/276 split, is that the 260 will keep low end power and work well with the ABA bottom end and the 276 will pick up where the ABA dies out and the 16v takes off. But yes at the same time it will keep a better idle, but it wont be stock smooth


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (vwjettalikewhoa)*

Yeah, sorry for all the q's, I'm a little gung-hoe with this project since the snow started sticking around, I've got to get to a wreckers quick and get one before it gets too cold, but wanted to make sure that it's totally feasoble with OBD2!
Anyway, thanks for the help; I guess some VAG-COM is in my future around next spring. I'm in the same boat as you in terms of trying to gather up parts. Going to grab a full 9A (hopefully this weekend or next) and start the process.
Do you know where you're going to get your ABF's from? BBM or somewhere else?
And I like your idea with the cam, I was looking at the 260 for my 8v, and figured that since it wasn't too agressive I'd go with that for the 16v. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Hahaha, that's funy about the cruise; it definitely doesn't compare to the MK4 cruise IMO.








Thanks again for your help, and good luck with the part recruiting!!


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## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

Im having my shop grab the pistons for me, they can get them on the cheap, or at least cheaper than ive been able to source. 
GL with yours too, keep reading and searching, the information floating around here is redic.


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (vwjettalikewhoa)*

So it sounds like trying to keep the Secondary Air Injection system is more headache than it is worth. So I am guessing that you use the VAG-COM to change the soft coding of the ECU so that it no longer looks for the SAI system?


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Yeah, that was the impression I got as well. I figure I can live with the SAI for the winter until I do the head swap in the spring, and in the mean time I've got to beg, borrow or steal some VAG-COM capabilities.


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## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PtownVdub* »_So I am guessing that you use the VAG-COM to change the soft coding of the ECU so that it no longer looks for the SAI system?

bingo


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (vwjettalikewhoa)*

I called the local junk yard and they said they've got one 9A, still in a passat for $300. That price is with them pulling it out, so hopefully I'm able to borrow a truck thursday and pick it up after work. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
I know I already asked a ton of questions, but in the third picture I posted there are two green (







) bolts/screws holding that valve onto the back of the motor. When you took yours off, what was in between that valve and the head? Is there some sort of passage way that allows for air or fluid to get to that valve, or is it not a flange at all and the valve and just bolted there for placement?








I'm thinking that if it's just there for placement, I'll simply relocate it when I do the swap, like a make a bracket and bolt it to the firewall, then just drill and tap the 9A manifold.
Also, I know this is a long shot, but no one has any ideas for any shops in the UK where I could get those pistons?


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## luv2exl8t (Apr 11, 2008)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

i belive their is a passageway into the head


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## steve12345 (Jan 8, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

Looks like an EGR valve to me.


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## vwjettalikewhoa (Sep 3, 2003)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kingowe* »_, but in the third picture I posted there are two green (







) bolts/screws holding that valve onto the back of the motor. When you took yours off, what was in between that valve and the head?

i actaully just pulled the hose and left that valve, but capped it. havent had a problem yet.


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (vwjettalikewhoa)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwjettalikewhoa* »_i actaully just pulled the hose and left that valve, but capped it. havent had a problem yet.

Sounds like you did something very similar to what I did on my 1.8T swap. I left the entire valve because I didn't want to mess with the vacuum line plus I also wanted to ability to run the SAI system in the future if needed.
Here are a few pictures of the aluminum block-off plate that I made:
















Integrated Engineering makes a block-off plate that will allow you to remove the combi valve rather than just blocking it off. Their website lists it for the 1.8T engine but after looking at the combi valve on my ABA and on my AWP they look to be the same.
Here is the picture and link to their block-off plate:








Integrated Engineering SAI block-off plate
I don't know if that information was helpful or not.


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Yeah, actually that was really helpful! Now I know I can leave the SAI in there the way it is, not have to a)delete that part of the program with a VAG-COM or b)find a different OBD2 ecu without SAI.
I really don't/didn't like the idea of having to mess with the ecu, so this is great. Good looking plate, by the by; I'll have to make one of my own!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Thanks!!


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

I'm glad someone made a thread for those with OBD2 Golfs wanting to do the 16v head swap. I'm in the process of tearing down my 9a engine that I bought a couple weekends ago. Are California MK3's the only one that came with SAI?


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (Smccoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_Are California MK3's the only one that came with SAI?

I was wondering the same thing. I purchased my GTI from the second owners who owned it for 11 years but they bought it from a local dealership in Oregon so I don't know if it was originally a California car or not but it does have the SAI.


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Yeah, there hasn't been too much mention of the SAI around, and I know my heap was shipped from San Francisco, so I definitely fit the bill.
I'm hoping to go and pick up the motor tomorrow after work, as long as the wreckers are able to pull it out...I figure I'll just call them every 15 minutes to see if they've done it, that way they won't forget about me







.
I don't know exactly how I feel about the whole SAI system. On one hand it (allegedly) improve emissions (so dilution IS the solution to polution???







), but on the other hand it's more crap in the engine bay, more things that could go wrong and noticably affects the engine when it cycles on and off.
I'm kind of a wiener and would rather not mess with the ecu all that much, so as it stands right now, barring any unforeseen circumstances, I'm going to leave it in and work around it; the only thing I really have to do with it is to drill and tap the manifold, more of a PITA than anything







.


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

I'm happy my car doesn't have SAI. It just means one less thing I have to worry about. I pulled the head off the 9a along with the intermediate shaft tonight. It took German Auto Parts three tries to send me my order. First time it was heater hoses for another customer, second time it was the wrong tool. The third time it was the right tool so third time must be the charm. Do you know if I can use the injectors out of the ABA since I'm running the stock management system?


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (Smccoy)*

Yeah, third time must be a charm, hopefully it's not like that for the rest of your built.
I believe you can use the ABa injectors, however you need different injector cups to get them to mount in properly. If I'm not mistaken, the cup from the G60 motor work, or BBM has a set that work.
http://www.bahnbrenner.com/med...=1222
I figure this is one of the few things that I am going to have to buy to get this to work because it's really tough to find a G60 motor around here, let alone one that someone will let you part out.
What are your plans for the fuel rail?


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

I'll probably just buy the fuel rail from BBM also the injector cups too. I'll do this when I get my tax return. I need to find some one who swaped the internals of 16v dizz and 8v dizzy.


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (Smccoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_I need to find some one who swaped the internals of 16v dizz and 8v dizzy. 

While reading the official ABA 16V thread, I came across some information on swapping the internals of the 8v distributor into the 16v distributor. 
Here is the information from that thread since it took me almost 30 pages of reading to find it.









_Quote, originally posted by *BMGFifty* »_I have been asked a couple of times now for more detail on the distributor window swap so I thought I would post more detailed instructions here.
For those of you who know what I'm talking about please feel free to let me know if there are any errors or anything I left out.









The distributor is fairly simple to figure out. 
There are two things that need to be changed in order for it to work properly with factory management. 
The 16v distributor normally comes with 4 shutter windows on the hall sensor. 
The ABA Motronic only requires one. 
The 16v turns counterclockwise, the 8v turns clockwise.
On the regular 8v distributor the shutter window will have just passed the pickup just as the rotor reaches tdc mark.
What you have to do is align the single window on the 16v distributor the same way. What makes this tricky for most people is the counterclockwise rotation of the 16v distributor. 
What you do is point the rotor towards the #1 tdc mark and then put the shutter window in the position where it is just past the sensor. You 
will want the trailing edge of the window to line up with the edge of the pickup assembly and not just the metal bit. 








To do this you will need to remove the shutter windows from both distrbutors. 
The 8v distributor has a pin that holds the drive gear on. You will need to drive this out so that the gear comes off (this can be difficult 
since it is peaned over). Next the shutter and shaft come out. The shutter will then need to be pressed off the shaft. 
The next step is to remove the retaining spring and pin from the 16v distributor and remove the assembly from the 16v distributor. 
Once the shutter window is removed you should swap the actual pickups since the 8v part is a bit larger and will rub on the 16v pickup. 
You should then align the shutter window so that it is just past the pickup and then press it back together. The shaft is splined so the 
alignment should be fairly easy. Press it all back together, reassemble and your good to go. 

http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

I was hoping that I could run the stock OBDII ABA pistons for the time being even though that would yield a low compression ratio but then I could supercharge the 16V ABA setup sometime down the road. Then I found out the the OBDII ABA pistons are different than the OBDI ABA pistons and there have been issues with interference between the valves and the pistons. Then I decided that I just want to go naturally aspirated so I looked into a finding a source for a set of ABF pistons. It looks like BBM stocks the ABF pistons with wrist pins, clips, and rings ...








Link to ABF pistons on BBM's site
Unless, I can find another source, I think I will be ordering the pistons from BBM for my setup.


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Thanks for finding that picture. I've read through that entire thread and it definitely takes forever to find what you're looking for. I'm hoping to start this swap sometime in last winter/early spring.


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (Smccoy)*

Yeah, haha, I know what you mean, that thread definitely does go around in circles, although it's great that you posted those dizzy pictures and instructions, it'll definitely help!
And I really like that BBM, but for $550 USD (~$710 CDN) plus shipping, duty and brokerage on that set is about half my entire budget, so I'm going to see if I can get them anywhere cheaper.
IIRC, the BBMs are forged, but since I'm going to be sticking to NA with 150whp as a maximum, I think cast would be suitable and cheaper. I'm still going to try and find a cheaper source across the pond and get my sister to pick them up for me, but the 7 hour time difference makes it hard to reach people







.
Anyway, I had a borrowed truck at work and was ready to pick up my 9A after work today, but I called my JY and he said that because of the snow, they couldn't pull it... blah blah blah...going to pick it up on Saturday with any luck. It's a '92 with roughyl 175k kms on it, so with some new seals, valve re-seating polishing up, should be good to go.
This swap has consumed my life, lol, I sit at work not work, instead planning for the swap and wishing I could be working on it all the time!!







I really gotta get a life!


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kingowe* »_This swap has consumed my life, lol, I sit at work not work, instead planning for the swap and wishing I could be working on it all the time!!







I really gotta get a life!








Don't worry, I have the exact same problem.


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Don't we all man


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (Smccoy)*

Does anyone know if the head internals for the KR motor are the same as the 9A?
I believe the KR is the 1.8 16v (possibly Eurospec) and am wondering if the valves, springs, lifters, etc. are the same as the 9A head? I'm pretty sure the cam shafts are interchangable, but I'm wondering about the rest of the top end.
On an unrelated note, we got another few inches of snow tonight (it's still coming down), but tomorrow I'm heading to the wreckers anyway to get my damn 9A!! If they haven't pulled it yet, I'll sit there and watch them until it's in the back of my truck so that I have it!!







I'm just in the finishing stages of writing up a list of everything I need from the 9A so that I'm sure that it's on the motor and I don't have to go back!!
Also, I got a hold of one shop across the pond about the ABF pistons, and the outlook is not what I was hoping for







. The guy quoted me 507 pounds for the set with rings, delivered. That's almost a grand for the set...not cool. Looks like I'll be shopping at least on this continent for them. I wish I was closer to the border or had some sweet hook-ups. Shipping and all those border fees kills me with crap coming into Canada







.
Later!


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## vwpat (Oct 25, 2000)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

KR, PL, 9A internals are the same.


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (vwpat)*

Good luck on getting your 9a. I just got the pistons out of mine so it's essentially torn down


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (Smccoy)*

Picked up my 9A this morning!!!















Drove down to the wreckers and there she was, waiting to be put into the back of the borrowed pick-up; what a beautiful sight she was!!
Anyway, it wasn't all that cold today, so when I got home a around noon, I got straight to work on it. It wasn't hard to tear apart at all considering it was out of the engine, so I made pretty good time. Something tells me I won't be able to put it all back together as quickly as I tore it apart







.
Anyway, here are some pics of the tear down:
Here she is, fresh from the wreckers:








Let the demo begin!








Manifolds off, valve cover loosened:








Valve cover gone and head bolts loosened:








Head free from the block:








Narsty looking pistons:








Oil pan and windage tray gone:








Also, I ran out of camera juice, but I pulled the oil pump and gearing as well as the pistons.
As you can see, I don't have a whole lot of equipment or space yet; I took the top end apart while it was in the wheel barrow, then put it on a bald tire to access the bottom.







I made sure I kept all of the bolts labelled in their own egg carton section so I (hopefully) don't loose anything!
On a sad note, there was one casualty during this disassembly. The plastice windage tray has these 5 tabs holding it in place, and I broke a couple of them off while trying to remove it







Fortunately I plan on keeping the ABA pan and windage tray, so I think I'm alright.
I didn't have the proper size socket to remove the crank bolt, to I couldn't take off that pulley and get at the lower end timing equipment, but I know what I'm after and hope to pick one up tomorrow.
All in all, I spent about 5 hours pulling this thing apart and am quite happy that I didn't break anything too serious.
Now that the manifolds, pistons and head are in the warm basement (that shed I tore it apart in is not heated) it's time to start cleaning everything up.
I'm going to paint the valve cover a flat-ish black (perhaps something with a little bit of texture) and then give the intake manifolds a bit of a shining. The valve cover and head gaskets look like they're in pretty good shape, so I'm going to have to measure all around the head to make sure it wasn't decked or anything; something tells me this motor was taken apart recently and I don't want any surprises







.
'Night all, and now that my toes have warmed up, it's time to relax!!


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

I am jealous of your progress. I spent some time this weekend trying to track down another ABA as well as a 2.0L 16V but nobody returned my phone calls or emails.
I also spent some more time researching how to change the ABA OBDII ECU soft code in order to remove the SAI. I was not able to find anything definitive so I posted the question in the VAG-COM forum and received the following response:

_Quote, originally posted by *Fast VW* »_It's been awhile since I've done it but here goes:
- Open the 01 Engine module
- Open Function (11)
- Login procedure
- Enter code 01283
- Return to function menu
- Enter function 07
- Change the soft coding to 00000 if you have a manual transmission or 00001 if you have an automatic transmission

I have not yet tried this so I can't confirm that it works. Hopefully, I will get around to trying it this week and report back if it works. Before changing anything though, I am going to make sure that I write down the original values for the soft code in case something goes wrong and I have to recode the ECU back to stock.


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Aww, man, yeah, that's the last thing you want to have to do, re-program the thing without knowing the stock values...not that they're probably not available on here somewhere, lol.
That sucks about no one getting back to you; I know what that's like. Sometimes you just gotta go there in person and git 'r dun, haha!!
Anyway, I have been re-thinking the whole SAI thing, and I really do dislike mine. It cycles on almost as soon as I start the car and it always buggers the idle when it does that. It's pretty loud and a PITA when I drop my air filter into the front bumper, I've got to give it its own breather and everything.
However, after saying that and then tearing apart my 9A on the weekend, I learned something quite interesting:








This was how the stock 9A manifold was when I pulled it off and it has that steel line with a fitting stuck into the manifold. I think it's probably something to do with the EGR from the 9A system, but I'm thinking now I'm going to use that line and hook it up to the combination valve from the SAI, and then run it stock through the ECU. 
I do like the idea of ditching the SAI, but I don't have a VAG-COM (and don't really want to buy one because I've got a code reader) and I don't want to try and find a OBD2 ecu w/o SAI, so I think I'm just going to leave it in and find a new place to mount the combination valve and the pump itself.
Good luck with your engine hunt and I'm sure you're going to have better luck getting a hold of someone during the week rather than the weekend.
My next step is buy a Bentley for the 9A and begin the re-construct on the head and to clean all of the ****e off the existing 9A parts.
Have a good evening all!!


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

Alrighty, so I've slowed down a fair bit on this project...not so much because of motivation, more because of funding (seems to be the limiting problem with all the builds).
Anyway, I've been working in the basement for the past week which is nice with the snow outside.
I've got half of the head apart; the cam out and the lifters out, but I'm stuck at the valves and spring.
Head minus cams and lifters:








Parts removed:








I also got the pistons, rings and wristpins all separated. I still haven't decided if I'm going to go with a set of ABFs or rebushed 9As for the pistons. Basically there's a difference of ~1 for the cr, but since there is very little chance of boost for the next little while, I'm thinking ABFs. All it'll cost is more money, which means more time working on this thing. Plus the 9A pistons are kind of nasty:








This is the busted flange for the csv from the lower mani.:








I'm gonna have to find me another one of those now too







.
Anyway, I've got a few questions for everyone out there:
#1 - how are you guys pulling the valve springs? Are you getting a shop to do it, are you buying a spring compressor or are people making one? I've seen a few on here, but they're all in the US, and will be about $150 after all is said and done, shipped to Canada. I've got a few drawings made up for one that I could make, but then I've got to track down materials...








#2 - does the timing crank gear separate from the accessory crank pulley? I pulled it off as one piece, and it doesn't seem like it breaks apart, but there were 4 bolts through the crank pulley into the crank gear, which leads me to believe that they can be separated. Plus I've seen a few around here of just the gear. I'm assuming they come apart, but just wanted to get a bit of input before I take a rubber-face mallet to the thing.
















#3 - what is the height of the stock head. There are marks in the outside two intake and exhaust ports, almost like a clamp might have been put there, so I want to measure everything up and make sure the head hasn't been decked, otherwise I might have to change my approach.
So, I'm thinking it's about time for the my first parts order. It's mostly going to be the upper end gasket set and the lifters. It's got the valve seals in it and I want to get going on those.
Although I've got to get the valves out so I clean that d**n head.
Along those lines, I'd like to cleanup all of the intake and exhaust ports, perhaps more polish than porting, but was wondering what the process is for that (I've never had anything P&P'ed before), so I've got me some more reading to do!!








Anyway, just thought I'd send out an update!! Hope everyone had a good and productive weekend and a decent week!!
Later http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif








edit: added pics of crank gear/pulley


_Modified by kingowe at 9:19 PM 11-30-2008_


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

socket and a C clamp should do it. also if you dont care about the components you can usually whack with a hammer and get the clips outta there. 
the pulley and gear will come apart if you take those 4 allen bolts out.


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (bonesaw)*

Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the C-clamp and such, as I plan on re-using the crank gear with my stock (shaved) crank pulley. Thanks for the advice.
As for the 9A, I'm still at the valve-spring-compressor-dilemma stage. I've got a friend of mine working on a tool that should help me get the springs down, then I'll use a telescopic magnet to remove the retainers. 
I'm starting to wonder if I should go for a P&P whilst the thing is apart. I'm on a major budget, but since Na is where I'm at for the next little while, I'll need to get as much out of this motor as I can...perhaps a worthwhile investment. 
I also bought a can of black VHT wrinkle paint tonight after work and got my valve cover done. Baked it for a while (whole house stinks like paint too, lol







), but it looks good.
Pics to follow.
First parts order tomorrow. Since I don't have the thing apart yet and am going to be order the valve seals and lifters tomorrow, do the valve guides generally need to be/should be replaced as well, or are they usually alright? It's a 91/92 with ~ 175k km on the motor...any thought?








Later


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

So with an oversized F-clamp and a special tool made thanks to my machinist buddy, I got the valve springs, valves and seals out. The exhaust springs were really easy (they're vertical) but the intakes were a fair bit tougher (because they're on an angle from the rest of the head). Either way, with some sweat, blood and a few tears, I got them all out.
I'm leaving in the valve guides because a) I can't get them out on my own and b) I don't know that they need to be replaced. Right now I've got a rotary tool and some die grinder bits and am trying to smooth out the ports a bit. I know doing your own P&P is a big DIY no-no if you don't know what you're doing (which I don't







), but I'm only getting rid of any big ridges or burs (like the seams half way up all of the ports, presumable from the casting), then take some progressively finer sand paper ad make it a bit smoother overall. 
They must use somewhat coarse sand for the casting because those ports seem kind of rough, and it takes a fair bit of time







.
I did call a place about a P&P, and he said he'd do it and replace the valve guides for $600 (Cdn, probably a touch shy of $500 Usd). It seems a bit steep for me even though it would be well done, so because I have some time, I'll do a mild job myself.
Also, I got my first order of parts (woo-hoo!!)







. It consists of the head gasket set (inc. valve seals), lifters, timing chain and head bolts. Roughly $300 Cdn for all that, so I'm happy (the damn lifters are $10 each







) So now I'm going to continue to smooth the head out, lap the valves and put it all back together.
I've still got to find a way to get the cam gear off the exhaust cam because I've got to replace that seal, but my impact is too weak to do the job...might have to call my machinist friend again! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
More to follow...


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

It sounds like you are making some decent progress ... more progress than I am making that is for sure.
I have finally started making a little progress though. I picked up an extra 2.0L ABA and the guy delivered it to my house last night. The engine is dirty and gross but it should clean up fine. Now I need to get an engine stand so I can strip the complete engine down to the block and start building up from there.
Here are a few pictures of the engine waiting to go on the engine stand:


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Congrats on getting the ABA finally, and it doesn't look all that narsty, not as bad as my 17 year old 9A anyway. Looks like you've got your work all cut out for you for the next little while. And yeah, a motor stand is a good idea; it kind of sucks using an old tire and a wheelbarrow!!







Good find getting one with SAI, what year is it, and do you know the mileage on it? Did you happen to get the ECU with it by any chance?
As for me, I've got all of the intake and exhaust ports on the head de-burred and smoothed out a fair bit, and got all the metal shavings cleaned up and gone, so tomorrow evening (hopefully) I'm going to lap all of the valves and then the re-assembly begins this weekend!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
Damn Christmas shopping takes money away from the project, lol, so I'll have to ask for parts for this build from santa!!


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

The engine is out of a 1996 so it is the same year as my GTI. It has 130,000 miles on it so the mileage is the same between this engine and my GTI as well. I did not get the ECU with the engine but the guy I bought it from had the ECU so I could buy it from him if needed.
I picked up an engine stand and the necessary mounting hardware and got the engine mounted on the stand last night. I couldn't help but start taking the engine apart. I didn't get very far but this is how everything looked at the end of the night ... 








Christmas shopping is cutting into my build budget as well. I can't wait to see some pictures of the head once you start to get it all back together. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (PtownVdub)*

Good call on the engine stand, and I know what you mean about not, not being able to work on it...everything is there, begging to be fiddled with, lol.
Anyway, I'm going to ask a question, but I really didn't think I was this dumb until today, so be nice! Here goes:
The 1991 9A motor used an idle air control valve and a cold start valve to allow the engine to idle properly when it's cold and when the throttle body is closed (the very definition of idling). I know what an idle air control valve looks like, and I also know that with the newer ABAs, they were able to accomplish the above with only the idle air control valve, they didn't need the csv, or 5th injector, right?
So my question is, why can I not find the idle air control valve on my 1999 ABA? I thought they were supposed to be mounted to the intake manifold, on the back, right corner, above the 0 in 2.0, and sort of hidden under the manifold overhang...
I can't find mine.
















I know it's got something to allow it to idle while cold and while the tb is closed, but I cannot see it. Has it been integrated into the tb itself?








Anyway, aside from that, nothing too much going on. Been cleaning some of the 9A stuff that I need (like hoses and stuff).
The re-assembly begins either Monday or Tuesday after work.
Any help would be great!
Thanks


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## cboggs (Nov 29, 2008)

VW gurus, correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the idle air valve 'integrated' into the throttle body? There is a servo that controls the position of the throttle while at idle. This acts as an idle air valve in that it controls that amount of air passing by the throttle plate. In away this is an early form of a cable-less throttle controlled by the ECU (not by your foot).
As for the 5th injector, doesn't it just run rich until it switches over to closed loop control? 
I might be way off so some could back me up 
Hope this helps.


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: (cboggs)*

Does anyone know if the CSV is necessary for this swap? Mine is broken on my manifold.
Thanks


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## kingowe (Jun 12, 2007)

*Re: (Smccoy)*

Thanks cboggs, that's the only conclusion I could come up with as well, and it's good to know that someone has a better idea about it than me.

_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_Does anyone know if the CSV is necessary for this swap? Mine is broken on my manifold.
Thanks

I would hazard a guess that if you're using the ABA tb with an adapter to mate it with the 9A manifold, then you don't need either the csv or the idle air control valve, as long as the servo in the ABA tb works.
I'm basically trying to keep everything on the 9A manifold and head as similar as I can to the ABA, especially when it comes to sensors. Because the ABA mani doesn't have the csv or iac valve, and I'm using the ABA tb to make up for that, I'm thinking that I don't need either of those two mounted on the 9A mani.
Thats kind of nice to know because when I bought my 9A, the csv was missing and had been snapped clean off right after the flange, but the flange is still there. All I have to do is cover that hole on the flange and use the idle control from the tb.
Glad to know THAT's why I couldn't find the iac valve!


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: (kingowe)*

My CSV was also broken off too. I'm also going to try and use the ABA throttle body if I can. Hopefully it works out.


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (cboggs)*


_Quote, originally posted by *cboggs* »_I might be way off so some could back me up
Hope this helps.

I agree with cboggs description of the later style ABA throttle body. I think all OBDII ABA engine have the throttle body with the integrated servo motor. The OBDI ABA engines have the idle stabilization valve. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: (PtownVdub)*

Sounds good guy. Thanks for the help.


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## Smccoy (Sep 30, 2008)

*Re: (Smccoy)*

Took the head down to the machine shop last week and found out the engine that I pulled the head off of, it over heated. I'm having a valve job done on the 9a head. Better I found this out now instead of when I set the head on the ABA block.


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## PtownVdub (Jun 22, 2006)

*Re: (Smccoy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Smccoy* »_Took the head down to the machine shop last week and found out the engine that I pulled the head off of, it over heated. I'm having a valve job done on the 9a head. Better I found this out now instead of when I set the head on the ABA block.

I would have to agree with you on that one. That would have been terrible to find out after you had the 16v head and ABA block all assembled and installed.
The holidays and cold weather have slowed my progress a bit. However, I did finally get around to pulling the head off of the ABA engine. I need to finish taking apart the block so I can get it all cleaned up and inspected but I still need to purchase a complete 9a engine before too long.
















http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (kingowe)*

so i didn't know enough about this whole sai pump stuff, i only got the pump itself. so is the exhaust mani of a car with egr and sai pump different from the exhaust mani of a regular obd1 car?
what is going to happen if i just don't use the whole sai and egr stuff? will it affect the performance really bad?


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## bonesaw (Aug 8, 2004)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (manfredwerner)*

its for emissions. you can code the sai out.


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## manfredwerner (Jan 30, 2007)

*Re: OBD2 MK3 ABA to 9A 16vABA (bonesaw)*

i see, my car is 1990, so officially i don't need those, i put in aba 97 obd2 though, but i made of pieces, and in the end the exh mani i obd2 but no egr, the head the same, the harness and ecu is 97 with sai and egr, so i use digi 2 cluster, if i cup those of and drive without them for some time till i put on this crap back on, will it affect the gas mileage and the performance?


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