# Lowering my baby/VAG Tool



## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

Need help in lowering my baby...specially now that it has "new 20inch shoes".
I'm in South Florida/Fort Lauderdale area.Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated.
Will post pictures of the car with the Lowenhart LDR's hopefully tomorrow/been very busy at work.


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (adibaiz)*

Anybody close by,willing to help out a fellow Phaeton owner!I'll travel even 150 miles or do whatever it takes...i got to get mycar lowered.(looks really bad now/4x4/ since i got the 20" wheels)


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (adibaiz)*

See Michael's post on resetting the ride height via software. I think it's the best approach to date.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1876353
Scroll down a bit, Adrian, to find what you need. Show it to your Phaeton tech.)


_Modified by Paldi at 9:56 PM 3-20-2005_


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (Paldi)*

I'll print it out and take it to them /lets see if they'll do it.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (adibaiz)*

They won't.


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (dcowan699)*

I figured,but i'll give it a try anyway.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (adibaiz)*

I guess I was blunt in my answer but I haven't had any success with dealerships making any changes because of legal issues. Even a German car mechanic I approached about this would not do it for the same reasons. If he does something like this and you damage the car, he will feel as if he could be sued. I fully understand their position and that is why I finally bought a VAG tool. Get one, you will certainly get your money worth.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (dcowan699)*

I have one very important question about the lowering issue. When do we measure the fender to wheel hub distance?
Just after cranking the car (wait 15 seconds or so for the suspension to go through a cycle)???
Or after we come in from work or the store? I've been checking it after shutting down the car, then recrank it, wait 30 seconds and then measure. Correct me if anyone thinks I'm wrong.
There has to be an appropriate time to check for a true value.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (dcowan699)*

David:
My _GUESS_ is that you measure wheel hub to fender heights when the car is running, after it has been driven for a while. But - I think that before you make any changes (via adaptation) to correct for a wheel that is out of range, you probably should check the measuring block values for that wheel, to see if the car also agrees that it is out of range.
In other words, if your target measurement for a wheel is 401 mm, and you do a measurement and the distance is 408 mm, but the measuring block values in block 004 (Deviation from normal height) indicate that the vehicle is 7 mm too high - the answer is to do nothing. The car knows that the gap is too much. Hopefully the excess gap is only caused by a momentary problem - perhaps stiction in the mechanism - and it will not exist next time you do a measurement (meaning, after you have driven around for a little while).
Attached is a new label file for the Level Control System -J197- (#34). Drop this into the "user" folder of the VAG-COM software (program files/VAG-COM/labels/user) and give it a try - I think it will provide better guidance when you are reading the measuring blocks. I wrote this for the upcoming 5.0 release of VAG-COM. It is a plain text file, which means you can open it with any text editor or word processor and have a look at it, if you want.
Michael


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (dcowan699)*

Using the VAG tool locator list from the forum,i sent e-mails to at least 5,6 people from Miami area asking for help and nobody responded back/funny.....That's it,Iwill buy the VAG-COM tool myself and try to do it on my own.


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (Ming Blues)*

Same one i've used/no luck.


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (Paldi)*

If you can wait until next week I can do it for you.


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (AtlasD3Miami)*

Of course i can wait! I'll send you an e-mail with my cell# and you can call me whenever you're available . Thanks! Adrian


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## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (adibaiz)*


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (bobm)*

To me that is too low. Not that it looks bad but it looks dangerous for the fenders!!!!! Is that your car and if so, how did you get it that low? How far down from norm is that ?
David


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (dcowan699)*

That's for sure a photochop gone bad!Definetely too low.


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## mkell (Jan 8, 2005)

If I were to get a VAG-COM tool, would all I need is the codes? Is it pretty much self-explanitory? I don't want to buy something like that and have no idea how to use it.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (mkell)*

The VAG is a great tool to have. I bought it in order to get rid of annoying chimes and warnings that are over obnoxious. I removed the "key in ignition" warning, the "seat belt" warning, and also a "side light switched on" message. Now I'm happy with those issues. As far as lowering the car, I am about 70 % satisfied. I believe it is a matter of coding but I apparently am not doing something exactly right as re-coding has not dropped the car for me. I may not be doing the sequence correctly. Keep reading the forum and details may unfold on this topic.
David


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David:
Here is a suggestion for you, I'm not sure if it will work for you, but I did some experimenting last night, and it worked for me:
1) Go into address 34, level control, go to adaptation, go to adaptation channel 10, and switch the level control system off. Exit the control module (close out the controller) by returning to the main VAG-COM screen.
2) Re-open the controller. Now go to coding, and enter the appropriate correction value that you want - for example, for 10 cm below the 401/407 mm norm, enter two 'threes' in the field xxx??xx. Close out the controller again.
3) Re-open the controller, go to adaptation channel 10, and re-enable the level control mechanism. No need to close the controller again, you can go directly to step 4
4) Now, go through the normal adaptation process (which you probably know by heart now - adaptation channels 1 through 5 inclusive). Enter true measurements. See if the car responds appropriately. Enter adaptation channel 5 and enter a 1 to confirm the work when you are done, then close the controller. You might need to make two cycles through this (channels 1 through 5 inclusive) to get it the way you want.
Some additional thoughts:
- Remember that you may not, ever, have any door or lid open during the level control adaptation process, not even for a moment. What I do is plug the cable into the OBD port, run the cable out the (open) driver door window, and leave my laptop on a bar stool that is sitting beside the driver door. Then I go and enter the security code and open adaptation channel 1 to start the process.
- Also be aware that once you have started the process by entering the security code, you have to go through the whole process - allowing the car to move up and down in channel 1, then entering the 4 measurements in the sequence of the channels (1, 2, 3, and 4), and finally, entering the confirmation in channel 5. There is no way to short-cut the process, even if you only need to fine-tune one wheel.
- Be aware that if you are within 5 mm of a target, that is considered a complete success. In other words, if your target measurement value is 401 mm - this would imply fives in the correction value code - and you measure 406 mm, that is considered 'within limits'. You still enter the exact value you measure (406 in this case), but don't be upset if you can't get all 4 wheels exact, right to the millimeter.
- FYI, I have fives in the correction channels, and my car is sitting almost exactly at 401 and 407 mm. Two of the wheels are dead-on, to the mm, two others are off by a couple of mm.
Let us all know how it goes. I think turning the level control system off before you enter the new correction values, then turning it back on again before you adapt might be an important step in the process when correction values are being changed.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

By the way, just for everyone else who might be reading this and wondering what the heck we are talking about, it is the process for adapting (calibrating) the Phaeton suspension system, following the directions that are posted at the Ross-Tech website, at this URL: Suspension Level Control Calibration.
Ross-Tech makes the aftermarket software "VAG-COM", which is a diagnostic scan tool for Volkswagens, and they also sell a cable that connects your laptop computer (running VAG-COM) to the on board diagnostic (OBD) connector on the Phaeton, so the adjustments can be made.
Volkswagen service departments have a similar type of tool, made by Volkswagen, it is called a VAS 5051 or VAS 5052 tool.
Michael


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, can you post a picture of your car....i'm just curious to see how it looks lowered to european specs. Thanks! Adrian


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael, I'm sorry for being a PITA but I wasn't able to accomplish step 1. I called Andy at Ross-Tech to see if he could assist me but he too wasn't sure how to cut off the leveling control system.
I know I can do steps 2-4 as I've done that a bunch, but I never could see a place to click off the system. When you say channel 10 are you referring to address 10 for adapatation or one of the channels inside the adaptation sequence (similar to channels 1-5 for each wheel channel). ?? Also, did you have to shut off the engine during or between any of the steps. I remember once that we talked about shutting off the car after input of a new code before going through adaptation sequence.
Again, sorry about the bother,
Dave


_Modified by dcowan699 at 11:29 AM 3-24-2005_


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## bobm (Mar 2, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_To me that is too low. Not that it looks bad but it looks dangerous for the fenders!!!!! Is that your car and if so, how did you get it that low? How far down from norm is that ?
David
 Adobe Photoshop Elements















And yes, it's my car. Just not really lowered


_Modified by bobm at 12:31 AM 3-25-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
I will post a more detailed answer later this evening.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Thanks buddy. No hurry. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Michael,
I raised my suspension back up to normal levels today because I really feel that the car will perform better under new coding rather than adaptation. It was a breeze to get the car's computer to accept the new values to raise the car. I raised the fenders about 20mm each to their original values. I also replaced the code back to 17700 even though I don't think it ever truly accepted 13300 ( I shot for a 20mm drop). It's funny how easy it was to get the car to accept the lower values during adaptation but it knows not to go any higher (remember we say the opposite of what we want as lower numbers raise the car and higher values lower the car). I would rather lower the fenders (suspension) in a valid way rather than tricking the suspension because of dampening and performance responses. At the GTG , we may can venture into how to recode the car to drop it at least 20 mm. Gosh, I forgot how high the original values made the car look. Looks like an SUV compared to where I had it.








David


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_...At the GTG , we may can venture into how to recode the car...

I think if we have a number of cars together at one time, we will get this whole issue figured out once and for all. Right now I have my car coded to the original design specification (two fives, therefore no corrections) and I calibrated (adapted) it accurately, so it is riding exactly as it was designed to - 401 and 407.
I believe that if the ride height is changed via coding (the fives and sevens) and then the vehicle is truthfully adapted, we will get the full benefit of the damping and rebound characteristics that the engineers intended us to get. I kind of suspect - though I don't know for sure - that when we trick the system by falsifying our measurement inputs, we move outside of the centerpoint of damping and rebound control.
Michael


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

2 Things:
1: Adrian I have been super busy but will contact you sometime today and arrange to get this done for you soon.
2: Michael - I went over the coding on the A8 since it uses the same system also. My Coding is 0015510. I changed it to 0015410 to try and get just a little more drop in the rear. I found that it did not change the height of the car but it did alter the hard coding of the saved values in Channels 1-4 of the suspension control module. For instance: channel 3 always would have a Saved Value of 398mm. It now reads 393mm Stored Value with no change in the ride height. Did you see an immediate change in height when you recoded your car or was the only reason to recode to adjust the suspension characteristics after doing an adaptation?


_Modified by AtlasD3Miami at 8:07 AM 3-28-2005_


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Same thing happened to me. Just a change in the stored values but no change in suspension height. The one thing I notice time and time again is how resistant the channels are to adapt as you get closer to channel 4. Right after I raised my car yesterday (with no resistance at all in all 4 channels) I waited an hour and then thought to just see if I could lower it again. Channels 1, 2, and 3, no problem with a 20 mm drop, but channel 4 gives me "invalid" everytime.








So, I just left it alone and decided we have to figure out a way to do this with coding and not adapting as that just can't be the right way.
David


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David I feel you with channel 4 it can be a problem. One thing for everyone to kkep in mind is that on all of these that I've done the RR is usually 5mm lower from the factory. I'm connected to the car as I type and just undid all the changes I've made and going to try it the new way. Let's see how this works.
BTW - The stored values are back to normal since last night. 
EDIT: It works very well!!!! No more hesitation from the channels. Michael thank you so much for doing all this work. 


_Modified by AtlasD3Miami at 8:52 AM 3-28-2005_


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

I got it back down with the recode and adaptation (was previously only lowered with the adaptation). Down 20mm front and 15 rear but there is something screwy with my RR (Channel 4 Sensor). Michael maybe you can help me with this one. When I go to the measuring blocks for channel 5 (Absolute Vehicle height) it shows 103 for rear left and 87 for rear right despite they are exactly at the same didtance from the hub to the wheel well.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Hi Atlas:
My first question would be: what is the controller part number and ID on your Audi? This way, we can determine if we are dealing with the same data in the measured value block labels. May I trouble you to email me a controller listing from your Audi? You can get my email address by clicking on my user name at the left side of the screen. NB that what I seek is not an 'Auto-Scan', but a 'Control Module Finder' list - see this post for a better explanation: VAG-COM Controller Lists from Phaetons.
In the meantime, you may want to download the zipped archive of Phaeton label files I posted further down that thread, and see if any of the PN's from the Phaeton match your car. Once I get your control module finder list, I will do a much more detailed analysis of it, and report back to you here.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Please let me know of how you feel of your ride comfort after lowering your car. I have come to the conclusion that we are severly limiting the amount of shock absorbance of the suspension when we lower the car. The shock and jar of hitting imperfections on the average road is felt throughout the frame rather than in the shock absorbers when the suspension is lowered more than say 10mm. In fact, I hit a road construction transition (where the new pavement left off from the old pavement) as I traveled back from Atlanta the other day and it jarred my car so bad that I pulled over at the next exit to make sure I didn't hit bottom. The bottom of the car looked OK but I believe I hit the uppermost travel of the shock system and that was transferred in through the frame of the car. To be honest, I think we should get more info from Dresden before tampering beyond 10mm changes. I began to have a different attitude about lowering my car at that moment. No matter how the changes are done (whether through coding or adaptation) I personally feel this car's ability to provide a smooth ride is compromised as we deviate from the factory's intentions. I may be proven wrong if proper coding sequences establish a good ride with a lower suspension. I wonder how those "black box" remedies address suspension behavior as they lower the car???
David


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

It may just be in my head but it does feel different to me by doing the recode along with the adaptation. I didn't spend too much time driving it today after doing it but will run it through the paces tomorrow and compare times and speeds to see if there really is more compliance towards keeping a softer ride.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
I think that if we lower the car using the 'old' method (inflating the wheel hub to fender lip measurements when we do the adaptation), then yes, we will compromise the ability of the suspension system to perform well. This is (my guess here) because the suspension system no longer knows where the bottom and the middle positions are.
But, if we lower the car by using the coding to apply or remove a correction factor, then the suspension system will perform as it is intended to, because it will have been given accurate measurements during the adaptation process, and it will know how much (or how little) room remains between present wheel position and bottoming out. That's just my guess on the subject, though, don't take it as fact. 
FWIW, I have my car set at the default European ride height (401 and 407mm) by way of inputting '55' as the correction factor (55 being equal to no correction factor), and then doing a truthful adaptation. The car rides the same as it did before. I do notice, though, that I have to be more careful at curb transitions, and I need to go over the steep curb transitions much more slowly. It looks to me like VW made a good operational decision when they applied the + 10 mm correction to the North American Phaetons.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Just a little note here to remind everyone of the other approach to eliminating some of the wheel to fender "gap" without lowering the vehicle below USA specification: Use a 1 inch taller tire.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1744266


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Keep me informed how you feel about the ride comfort. Also, Fred, I like the larger wheel/tire combination as that would seem to correct some of the wheel gap problem as well as improve on an already great ride. Not to mention a possible slight improvement in mileage (I would think).
I wonder where a good wheel/tire combo could be purchased that's VW friendly??
David


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

David the ride is more compliant than by just doing the adaptation. But I'm looking for the opposite with my intentions. I want better handling even at the sacrifice of comfort since I am crazy enough to track my car. The recode does work for its intended purpose. That is not to say however that there is a slight detriment to ride quality regardless.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

How did you get it to accept the new code? I enter the new number (say, 0013300) and click on "Do It" ( or something equivalent to that ) and then I see no change in my suspension , height or behaviour. What steps did you take? The only changes I see are on the computer during the adaptation steps as the "stored values" go down in value. Once I go through the adaptation steps (not changing the stored values but simply allowing the stored values to be tested) , I close out of the system, and then I see no changes.

Thanks,
David


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Login to the controller via security access and code 31564. Then recode to the height you desire. Go to adaptation, you'll notice the stored values are changed then set each channel to your desired height equivalant to the amount as the new coding. Save with channel 5 and watch'er drop.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Atlas's post sums up pretty succinctly the process I followed - it worked for me.
Michael


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Atlas,now that the procedure is set, it's my turn to have my baby lowered.
I'm waitting for your call. Thanks! Adrian


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

You still have to enter a new test value. For example you recode to x55xx. The would be a 10mm drop. You'll then go to the adaptation and instead of seeing 417 you will see 407. Enter 417 for the test value then save it. The car will lower 10mm after you finish with the other channels. I always log into the controller with the security access first regardless.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*

Atlas, I'm a bit confused by what you are saying in your post immediately above.
My understanding of things - and how I did it on my car - was that I entered the correction value that I wanted (no correction at all, thus a 5) in the coding section of the controller, then, I entered the true and accurate value of the axle to fender measurement in the adaptation channels.
I believe that if you enter a false (intentionally overstated) measurement when you are doing the adaptation process, you will compromise the performance of the level control system.
If I have misunderstood what you meant, please clarify things for me.
Michael


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Atlas, I'm a bit confused by what you are saying in your post immediately above.
My understanding of things - and how I did it on my car - was that I entered the correction value that I wanted (no correction at all, thus a 5) in the coding section of the controller, then, I entered the true and accurate value of the axle to fender measurement in the adaptation channels.
I believe that if you enter a false (intentionally overstated) measurement when you are doing the adaptation process, you will compromise the performance of the level control system.
If I have misunderstood what you meant, please clarify things for me.
Michael

No the car would be at 417 +/- 5mm in the front, but after the recode the stored value in the front channels would show 407. Therefore if you still have to enter the correct value to have the car lower the 10mm to actually be at 407mm. The recode did not change the height of my car, only the numerical value of the channels.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Just so everyone who is not fooling around with their Phaeton suspension settings can follow this conversation, here is some explanatory information that will allow you to follow what we are talking about.
There are two different ways of making changes in the settings (programming, behavior) of any controller in a Volkswagen product. One way is by *coding* the controller, and the other way is by *adapting* the controller. I won't get into the tiny nuances of why some things are done by coding and others by adaptation, that would require an essay. Suffice to say that coding usually tells the car how you want it to behave (like setting the time that the alarm clock will go off at), whereas adapting usually implements actions (like moving the switch on the alarm clock to 'alarm on').
In the case of the Phaeton suspension system, coding is used to tell the vehicle what offset (if any) is desired from the original design specification for ride height. The original design specification called for a measurement of 407 mm from axle centerline to the bottom of the fender lip on the front axle, and 401 mm on the rear axle. This is how Phaetons sold in Europe are configured, coded, calibrated, and shipped out the door.
For the North American market, where roads are not always kept in the best of condition, and where no continent-wide regulations exist governing the angle of ramp transitions from public roadways to private parking lots, VW adds a 10 mm upwards correction. This is accomplished via *coding* the controller. A European Phaeton would have two five's ('55') entered in the fields used to define the offset - this indicates no offset at all. A North American Phaeton is *coded *with two seven's ('77') to indicate a desired offset of + 10 mm at each axle.
Once the desired offset has been specified, the car then needs to be calibrated so that it rides at the correct height. This calibration is accomplished by *adapting *the controller. 
*How Coding the Controller is Accomplished*


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (AtlasD3Miami)*


_Quote, originally posted by *AtlasD3Miami* »_No the car would be at 417 +/- 5mm in the front, but after the recode the stored value in the front channels would show 407. Therefore if you still have to enter the correct value to have the car lower the 10mm to actually be at 407mm. The recode did not change the height of my car, only the numerical value of the channels.

OK, perfect, I both understand and agree with what you are saying.
Let me paraphrase it, just to be double - triple - quadruple sure there is no misunderstanding:
After you change the *coding *values (the numbers from 1 to 9 that indicate the amount of correction factor you want), it is necessary to then *re-adapt* the car, entering the true and correct measurements you observe, in order to have any change take place. If you just change the *coding *and do nothing else, no change will be apparent in the ride height of the car... until someone then *adapts *the car, at which point the car will adjust itself to the new ride height you have specified in the coding.
Do we agree?
Michael
PS: I don't want you to think I am a dummy - I just want to be really sure we don't confuse any folks who come along later and read this thread, long after the two of us are gone.


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## AtlasD3Miami (Dec 17, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
OK, perfect, I both understand and agree with what you are saying.
Let me paraphrase it, just to be double - triple - quadruple sure there is no misunderstanding:
After you change the *coding *values (the numbers from 1 to 9 that indicate the amount of correction factor you want), it is necessary to then *re-adapt* the car, entering the true and correct measurements you observe, in order to have any change take place. If you just change the *coding *and do nothing else, no change will be apparent in the ride height of the car... until someone then *adapts *the car, at which point the car will adjust itself to the new ride height you have specified in the coding.
Do we agree?
Michael
PS: I don't want you to think I am a dummy - I just want to be really sure we don't confuse any folks who come along later and read this thread, long after the two of us are gone.

You have a much easier time explaining it correctly in detail than I do.







I'm totally in agreement and could never possibly think of you as a dummy


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

You guys are great! You've now explained this well enough to where I think I understand it -- and will have the confidence to lower my Phaeton to European specs.
I'll let you know how it goes...
- Dave


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

One more question (again, now that you've explained things so well):
How come the coding for my Touareg, with the same level control system module 907 553 B, has a "2" in the second to last digit? My Touareg, like most with air suspension, is coded 15520. (A few listed on the Touareg board are 15521, even though they are all US models.) The "55" makes perfect sense, since the Touareg ride height didn't have to be raised 10mm for North America like the Phaeton.
According to your label file, a "2" in the 2nd to last position equals "Phaeton", yet all the Touaregs have a 2 there, and the Phaeton's all have "0". Is coding of the module supposed to have the same effect across VW models?
I'm also intrigued by the "1 = Porsche" in your label file. While this probably doesn't make much sense to use for Phaetons, might setting this change the air suspension performance of a Touareg to act like a Cayenne? (I realize the anti-sway bars are different.)
- Dave


_Modified by uberanalyst at 10:23 PM 3-30-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Hi Dave:
Uh, I can't say too much about where the information about the coding came from. Sort of like Bob Woodward couldn't say too much about where he was getting his information from.
I also noticed that our Phaeton modules normally have a 0 in the second position from the right. They also have a 0 in the right-most digit, even if they are USA specification. This is not consistent with the information I have that describes the coding scheme, however, I have published the documentation as I received it, rather than editing it - hence the parenthetical note that says "usually this will be a zero".
There is a collection of Touareg controller scans at this URL if you would like to compare your Touareg to the rest of them: Let's Compare VAG-COM module codes for all Touareg platforms. Although the part number for the Touareg level control system is very similar to the PN for the Phaeton one (only the first segment - the platform code ID - is different), the software for the controller is not the same, and I know that the measured value blocks for the Touareg level control system are not exactly identical to those on the Phaeton - about 15% of the blocks are different. So, it is reasonable to conclude from the differences in the MVB's that the coding scheme for the Touareg is probably also different. I don't have access to the Touareg coding data.
Michael


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael:
OK, I certainly wouldn't want to get you into any trouble for revealing the identity of "Deep Throat" who's leaking those VW controller codes. ;-)
But the existence of the "Porsche" code in the label file means either:
1. Your label file codes really are Phaeton-specific, and thus Porsche plans to build its rumored 4-door sedan off of the Phaeton platform (or at least using the Phaeton air suspension).
-or-
2. "Porsche" refers to the Cayenne, which means that these codes apply to the Touareg/Cayenne platform - in which case they may be wrong for the Phaeton. (And just wait 'till the guys over at the Touareg forum find out they can change their air suspension to Porsche settings! ;-)
The plot thickens...
- Dave


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

I'm going to guess, based on information that I can't elaborate here, that the reference to Porsche was put there with the Porsche version of the Touareg in mind. It appears that the final version of the controller did not make use of the ability to code it to a specific vehicle (hence the reason we all have a zero in the second digit from the right), and this kind of suggests that the Porsche people did some modifications to the controller software before they put their little Mommy-van into production.
Michael


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## marcelito (Nov 17, 2004)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (adibaiz)*

Hi Adibaiz;
Im in Miami and have a Phaeton V8, if you don't mind I lie to lower my car to. The dealer could not di it when I ask them. Send me a e-mail if you like [email protected]
Thanks,







http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: Lowering my baby/VAG Tool (marcelito)*

I didn't lower mine yet...waitting on Atlas.. whenever he has time to do it for me.


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## uberanalyst (Sep 13, 2004)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Spent a few hours today with the VAG-COM trying to lower my North American spec Phaeton to European specs (10mm drop).
Followed all of the great info posted here: Recoded from "77" to "55" and then put actual measurements in as part of the adaptation process. I had the engine running, nobody in the car, and the VAG-COM cable coming out the driver's window to a laptop outside the car.
The front wheels responded nicely, but the rears, especially the right rear, didn't drop as much they should have (they were still more than 10 mm too high). So I figured I'd over-compensate by telling the car that the rear distances were larger than actual measured distances. At that point I didn't bother measuring the fronts again, as they were spot-on, so I just entered the desired 407 values for them. 
That was a big mistake. For whatever reason the car raised the fronts to their maximum value and I got a "Fault Workshop Level Control" message on the dash. Clearing the fault didn't do any good, as it just came right back.
So I carefully went through the adaptation process again, entering real measurements for all the wheels, and fortunately the fault messages went away (both on the dash and as reported by the VAG COM).
After that round of adaptation, the fronts were back to where they should have been and the rears were within about 3-4mm (too high, but within spec). I took a look at the measuring blocks (channel 4) and the car "thought" it was only off by 2 mm maximum on one of the wheels.
Time for a drive: took the car out on our twisty, hilly local roads and ran over some speedbumps (we have lots of neighbors who try to slow everyone down on private driveways). The lowered car seems to corner slightly better, but it also rides more softly in all of the comfort settings I tried. Maybe I'm imagining things, but the suspension seems slightly less harsh - small road imperfections are less noticable.
After parking in the garage, I waited a few minutes and took new meaurements. The front distances were exactly where they were supposed to be, but the rears were too high (the left rear measured 10 mm too high).
Maybe I'll just wait awhile before adapting the levels again, just to make sure the rear measurements aren't an anomaly. But so far, the results have been positive.
- Dave


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (uberanalyst)*

Hi Dave:
Thanks very much for making that post, it is very enlightening. Your experience is similar to mine - in other words, it is not too difficult to re-adapt the car after changing the correction value by recoding, but it sometimes takes 'a couple of cycles' of adaptation to get everything right.
Some comments here, for the benefit of others who may be following this thread:
1) When you do a re-adaptation cycle (entering the security code, then entering the various axle to fender measurements), be aware that you must always go through every step in the cycle - from entering the security code, then adaptation channels 1 through 4, entering all measurement, and finally confirming your work in channel 5. It is not possible to adapt just a single wheel - you have to complete the entire cycle in the prescribed order.
2) It may take a couple of cycles to get everything right. As Dave found out, just be patient and keep telling the car the truth about the measurements.
3) If you get a "level fault - workshop" code, don't be too worried - this fault can normally be cleared by completing a full adaptation cycle. When you successfully complete a full adaptation cycle, the Phaeton is thoughtful enough to even clear any pre-existing fault codes related to suspension.
4) If you do get a fault code, the car will sometimes go to maximum height. This is a 'limp-home' mode, don't be too alarmed by it. Just turn the car off, go have a coffee, then come back and do a full re-adaptation cycle again.
5) If your measurements are within 5 mm when you finish your adaptation, call it quits for the day. 5mm is the limit of precision you can hope to accomplish in one go. This is due to stiction within the system, stuff like that. If you want to fine-tune it, try again another day, after you have driven the car a bit. You probably won't accomplish much if you keep re-adapting over and over again once you are within 5 mm at each corner.
I have also discovered that the ride quality improves considerably when the car is set to no correction factor ('fives') and the adaptation is done truthfully. I have also found that the ride quality improves further if the (W12) tire pressures are set to the VW specification, rather than the American NHTSA specification (see this thread: W12 Tire Pressures, Ride Comfort and Road Noise.
Lastly - don't try to accomplish too many things in one day with the VAG-COM. Life is a lot simpler if you make one change only, try it out for a day or two, then make one more change, etc. I think you all know what I mean.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,
Does changing the code to xx55xx require using any security code or do you just simply go to "coding" and type in the new number??
The reason I ask is that I see a "login" box and a "security" box and I was wondering do I have to login before making a code change. I know that you have to use the 31564 in the "security" box to do adaptation but does a code have to be entered in order to change the suspension code?

David


_Modified by dcowan699 at 6:51 PM 4-2-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Hi David:
I don't believe that any form of security access is required to change the coding. AFIK, security access is only required if you want to do an adaptation. Also, I seem to recall that entering the security access number implies to the controller that you WILL be doing an adaptation - therefore, if you quit out of the process after you have entered the security access number, you run the risk of getting a confused car (a 'Level Fault - Workshop) message.
In other words - only enter the security access code if you intend to do the full adaptation procedure.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

You're exactly right about that. Once entering the security code, you have to complete the cycle or the fault message comes up. I found that out a while back.








David


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

Looking back on it - it's kind of nice that we were able to figure out, by group teamwork, how to make these modifications in the proper manner. Remember about 4 months ago, when we had that huge (4 page) thread going about lowering the car, and none of us knew where to start? Someone was trying to sell us an add-in gizmo for $1,500 to lower the car?
For me, this is the most rewarding part of being a member of a forum like this.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note: * For the record, here are some links to other discussions that have taken place about lowering the Phaeton. The thread that you are reading now seems to be the most concise and accurate set of instructions, for that reason, I have set the Phaeton Forum 'Table of Contents' (FAQ by Category) up to point to this one. But, if you want to dig further, here is sort of an annotated bibliography.
Let's talk about ride height Our original exploration of this topic. 6 pages, rambles a lot, and of historical interest because it covers just about every half-truth, misconception, and inappropriate idea about how to lower a Phaeton. Not of much use for instructional guidance, though.
Calling all Phaeton Owners who have a VAG-COM - I need your help - Some useful technical reference about using a diagnostic scan tool to change the coding of the suspension module.
Ross-Tech - Suspension Level Control Calibration - An interesting post, developed originally for the Touareg owners. It explains how to change the level control settings by 'cheating', as opposed to changing them by following the proper 'military spec' method that is explained above, in the thread you are reading now.
Technical Description - Phaeton Air Suspension - What it says. Some background information about how the system works. Worth a read.
_Additional Links, added April 27, 2005_
The Phaeton Suspension Adjustment Clinic - some photos of us doing suspension system adaptations at the Phaeton Owner Get-Together in Auburn Hills.
Hints and Tips about the suspension adaptation process - originally posted in the Touareg forum, but derived from experience with Phaetons.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 1:50 AM 4-27-2005_


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

Finally got my car lowered to the european ride height.(407mm+/- front and 401 mm+/- rear).We were playing with the VAG-Com for a long time to try to lower the car more than 10 mm....were unable to save it on channel 5..kept getting error..any thoughts/suggestions what were we doing wrong?We got the car to drop but i had that warning come up on the dash board.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (adibaiz)*

Hi Adrian:
I lowered 7 Phaetons today - also trained 7 owners how to lower Phaetons today. We discovered a few things that make it a bit easier to do. As soon as I get a chance (perhaps in a week) I will do a complete new write-up to post here and on the Ross-Tech website, explaining the process. I have to go to Switzerland on Wednesday, so I am going to be quite busy for the next few days - but hang in there, I will get a full write-up done and posted for reference.
FYI all of them were lowered to the standard European specification - no-one thought it necessary to go any lower than that - you would be amazed at the difference a 10 mm drop makes.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (adibaiz)*

I have attempted to lower it many times below 400 mm and it is very difficult to do. Even though we have codes that theoretically should allow drops as low as 25mm, ("44", "33", '22" ,"11" for as much as 1" of lowering) I honestly do not believe the car will go any lower than a total of 15 mm from factory. That may be why you aren't getting a "valid" reply entry in channel 5. I have tried it with and without code changes and the best I've done is a measurement of 390 in the fronts and 400mm in the rear. DO NOT drop it that far. If you do , you will certainly have to have your wheels realigned. My advice is to change the codes to European ("15500") and then readapt the car as needed for a drop of 10mm at each wheel and then go no further. This puts the front wheels at 407mm and the rear at 401mm (European) and it looks just right at that point. 
David


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

Michael,can't wait for the write up.
David thanks for the input/i do have the car set to european heights, but would like at least to see how it looks and rides if it's lowered more than 10mm. Will definetely order a VAG-COM tool for me first thing next week so i can play with it . BTW,i also got rid of the DRL,seat belt chime and key in ignition following the instructions from the VW vortex FAQ


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (adibaiz)*

Good deal... it's neat being able to make those mods!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

Will post some pictures of the car sometime next week(have to take some pictures first)...definetely looks much better lowered now!


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Be very careful going below Euro specs, especially with 20" tires on. I strongly doubt, even though it is possible to run 20" wheels & tires on a Touareg, that the Phaeton will allow you to force that change. And if you do so, you'll be in uncharted waters. What impact this will have on tire wear and suspension geometry is unknown. There comes a point where fashion may compromise performance.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (adibaiz)*


_Quote, originally posted by *adibaiz* »_...would like at least to see how it looks and rides if it's lowered more than 10mm...

Adrian, I know you are both curious and avant-garde - but, honestly, go slow with those changes. Like I said, I lowered 7 Phaetons today, and EVERYONE was happy with the way the car looked when it was set to the original design specification - in other words, a 407mm front and 401 mm rear axle to fender lip distance. We know that the car has been fully tested at that setting, and we know it won't compromise safety, handling, or longevity of the car.
You probably already have larger circumference tires that the original tires, so that will fill the wheel well even more, and reduce the gap even more. One of the things we learned today - and this is VERY important - is that you have to re-check the wheel alignment of the Phaeton after making the 10 cm downward adjustment (meaning, from North American settings to original design settings). Before you attempt to lower the car any further, have a complete 4 wheel alignment check made at your dealer, using the special VAG 1944 alignment tool that is required for the Phaeton. 
Style is great, but safety comes first.
Michael
*You don't want to wind up looking like this, unless you plan on moving to Tijuana.*
_I mean, I had to black out the image of the innocent bystander in the photo above, just to make sure I don't get sued for libel as a result of associating him with this suspension job. BTW, the car didn't leave the shop like this - what you are seeing is an intermediate stage of a diagnostic function test procedure._


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## adibaiz (Feb 11, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael,that picture of the Silver Phaeton is way too low/definetely don't want my car to look like that; will schedule an apointment to have the alignment check out.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (adibaiz)*

As to the ride, lowering the car improperly more than the recommended 10mm drop gave me an extreme harsh, bottoming-out ride. If coding along with adaptation does not allow the "drop", then I would not force it down any further. In other words, let's say you enter a code of 13300 for a total of 20mm drop but yet you can't get it to adapt that far, then don't do it. The car will behave terribly. I have tried to do this before and I get the words "invalid" to pop up especially on channel 4. Like I said before, even though the computer will allow code changes down to 11100, I honestly don't feel that this car's internal computer and measuring systems will ever allow that code and in fact I don't think it likes anything below around a code of 14400.
Just with a 10mm drop, I stepped back behind my car some 30 feet while on level ground in a parking lot, squatted down and I could see the change in the camber of the wheel slightly. What I mean by this is that the top of the tires are further toward the midline of the car than the contact patch at the bottom of the tire. This is stating that an alignment may be necessary. For now I'm not going to worry about it but I can assure you that a further drop would certainly warrant an alignment. 
For those of you that were at the GTG and had your vehicles lowered, please keep us posted as to any negative reactions from this process. I feel we did just the right amount without causing any harm..... don't you?
I also feel it makes the car look terrific without going overboard.
David


_Modified by dcowan699 at 8:59 PM 4-25-2005_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (dcowan699)*

In general, when a car goes around a bend the suspension compensates to keep the tire "flat" in contact with the road even though the body of the car has "rolled" a little bit. Lowering the car is like having the car make a turn - in both directions at once. Get an alignment.


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## rmg2 (Jan 23, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hey, that's the way they drive them cars in downtown Deeetroit.








If you ad hydraulics and can bounce the car you can come to LA.


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

I don't think a 10 mm drop is enough to warrant an alignment. I think I'll just have it checked at the next service just to be safe.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

Please be aware that the 2005 Phaeton Owners Group (PhOG) tech day was done at a state of the art shop. Not only were several people in attendance experienced with lowering the Phaeton via the VAG-COM, but a Bosch/ASE Master tech who specializes in high performance GERMAN suspension supervised the clinic.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

It's kind of interesting to note that the Touareg owners have now picked up on the "proper" way of making suspension adjustments, after 2 years of trying to do this by cheating. Here's the link: Touareg Vag-Com Air Suspension Adjustment.
Also, just for reference purposes, here is a link to the photos and discussion of the suspension workshop we had at the Phaeton Owner Get-Together in Auburn Hills, MI in April of 2005: Suspension Workshop. Note that one of the most significant things we learned during this was the importance of having the alignment of the Phaeton checked after making any adjustments to default ride height. Lowering the car WILL affect wheel alignment - this is indisputable. What you need to do after you lower the car is have the alignment checked, to make sure it is still within specification.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Michael posted the following info on another thread. He is describing controllers on the Bentley Continental GT and how they compare to the W12 Phaeton.


_Quote »_

Here is a scan from a Bentley Continental GT.
BAddress 34: Level Control
Controller: 3W0 907 553 The same PN and coding scheme as a W12 Phaeton.
Component: LUFTFDR.-CDC- 3C1V0 7014
Coding: 0015500

Address 54: Rear Spoiler
Controller: 1C0 959 733 G The exact same PN and coding scheme as a New Beetle Convetible.
Component: Heckspoiler 0002 

I was intriqued when I discovered the rear spoiler on the Bentley pops up when the auto reaches a predetermined speed and can also be raised manually by the driver. The New Beetle spoiler works the same way. 
The Phaeton suspension ride height works like that! I was wondering about the interplay here. 
I'm looking for a way to lower the suspension of the Phaeton 10 mm via a driver controlled switch. Because the rear spoiler on the Bentley/Beetle operates from a speed signal and by driver control with a switch - there may be a link here to the secret of finding the suspension drop instruction and "wire" it to a switch.
I found some answers on the New Beetle Forum. The spoiler has a very complicated control algorithm, not just up at something like 90 mph, down at 75 mph - it even has pinch protection. Also, the spoiler can be operated manually by a switch on the dash console. 
As it happens, there may be a link! I found a company which modifies the hardware or software programming that controls the spoiler mechanism on the New Beetle - changing the speed at which it deploys, etc. Perhaps they will respond to an email I've sent them about developing a programmable Phaeton suspension controller. 
I'd just love a suspension controller with "pinch protection"











_Modified by Paldi at 1:47 PM 5-29-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_ I was wondering about the interplay here. ... Because the rear spoiler on the Bentley/Beetle operates from a speed signal and by driver control with a switch - there may be a link here to the secret of finding the suspension drop instruction and "wire" it to a switch.

There is no connection whatsoever between the two components - the rear spoiler on the Bentley, and the suspension system on the Bentley. The only thing that they share in common is that they both get supplied with speedsensor output via the CAN (controller area network) bus. But - that doesn't mean much, because several other components also get supplied with this same speedsensor signal. The air deflector on the sunroof of the Phaeton moves, depending on vehicle speed, and the variable interval windshield wipers on the Phaeton also change speed and frequency based on vehicle speed. None of these systems are in any way related to or connected to the suspension system, nor is the rear spoiler (on vehicles so equipped) related to or connected to the suspension system.
Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

My interest is in finding a company that has the experience and ability to do programming modification on VW controller modules. The "link" is that one company at least, has some experience in this regard - they produced an owner-programmable New Beetle spoiler controller.


_Modified by Paldi at 9:06 PM 5-26-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_My interest is in finding a company that has the experience and ability to do programming modification on VW controller modules. The "link" is that one company at least, has some experience in this regard - they produced an owner-programmable New Beetle spoiler controller.

What you are looking for has already been done - *and you made a post about it!* In fact, you were the one who wrote that advertiser in the first place, asking about their module. Street Sounds sells an inline module that interacts with the existing Phaeton suspension controller to allow the driver to modify the suspension height as they drive. It costs about USD $1,600. The only problem I see with it is that it does not re-align the wheels as you drive. If you change the suspension settings, you must have the wheel alignment checked.
Click here to view the post - and note that you posted above and below it.
$1,600 ain't cheap, but it's a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to find a company with the expertise and tools needed to modify a control module.
Michael


_Modified by PanEuropean at 10:07 PM 5-26-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_My interest is in finding a company that has the experience and ability to do programming modification on VW controller modules. The "link" is that one company at least, has some experience in this regard - they produced an owner-programmable New Beetle spoiler controller.

Here's your original post:

_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_I just received the following email. 
From: [email protected]
Fred,
We did not get anyone interested in the Phaeton lowering kit in North America. You are the only customer asking about it for the Phaeton. If you have customers interested please let them contact me so I can approach the manufacture to speed up the process.
Regards,
Steve

...*"if you have customers interested"* ??? Fred, are you running a garage?
And, here's the post you made in the same thread, later on:

_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Steve Smith at Tunershop has sent me an email announcing that the electronic lowering module is now available for the Phaeton. With it you can manually select the "low setting or sport suspension mode" which is the 15mm lower ride height normally automatically implemented at high speeds. His module replaces an existing one located in the battery compartment and permits the lowering to be selected at any speed and I assume when parked. I don't have all the details yet except the price -$1,550.

Fred, I don't mind referring people to other posts when they are seeking information, but I gotta tell you, this is the first time I have ever referred someone back to one of their own posts when they have been seeking information..








Michael


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I think you missed the point here.
I want a solution similar to what Tunershop and others sell (they don't manufacture the item) but with several IMPORTANT differences.
For one thing, it *has* to have an on / off switch. To raise the car back to US spec with a "black box" (BB) you have to go into the trunk and unplug it - not what I want to do whenever I encounter a slightly substandard road. 
I realize you can go to the full 25mm lift mode, but with the car lowered 10 mm by the BB, this might not be enough on bad roads or snow. What would please me in my semi urban environment may be quite different for somebody somewhere else.
Second, the BB doesn't offer any driver customization possibilities.
I want to have my Phaeton sit low when parked and at speeds up to some driver-set low speed, such as 15 - 20 MPH.
At higher speeds, above 15 - 20 MPH, the suspension would raise up the 10 mm to the safer "US spec". At still higher speeds, perhaps 60 - 70 mph on smooth roads, it would drop back down 10 mm for the best aerodynamic height. Ideally these change points could be programmable by the owner and set as defaults.
So, in sum, what I'm looking for is the option to get to an appealing height from the viewpoint of style and "looks". 
I guess I've gone beyond black boxes and those old posts.







One thing that's been consistant has been my desire for flexibility at the driver's option, at least a switch.
The question I have for you all is should I persue this or drop it? I'm feeling very little encouragement. If I'm the only customer, it gets expensive.
_Modified by Paldi at 10:25 PM 5-28-2005_
EDIT: for clarity.



_Modified by Paldi at 1:49 PM 5-29-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_...I realize you can go to the full 25 mm lift mode, but with the car lowered 10 mm by their black box, this might not be enough on bad roads or snow. ...What would please me in my semi urban environment may be quite different for somebody somewhere else.... At higher speeds the suspension would raise up the 10 mm to the safer "US spec"... At still higher speeds - 60 - 70 mph on smooth roads, it would drop back down 10 mm for the best aerodynamic height.
The question I have for you all is should I pursue this or drop it? 

Fred:
Frankly, I think you should drop the idea of designing such a product, the expense would be very great. If you need Volkswagen 4 corner air suspension that gives you the very great range of travel that you have described, all adjustable from within the cabin of the vehicle, using the rotary switch you describe - why not just order that directly from Volkswagen? 
You will then have the following choices:
Loading level: 160 mm ground clearance, up to 5 km/h 
High-speed II: 180 mm ground clearance, from 180 km/h 
High-speed I: 190 mm ground clearance, from 125 km/h 
Street Level: 215 mm ground clearance, 0 – 125 km/h 
Off-road Level: 240 mm ground clearance, up to 70 km/h 
Extra-high Level: 300 mm ground clearance, up to 20 km/h 
That gives you a spread of 140 mm - over a foot, all adjustable from one control, right behind the shift lever.
More information can be found here.
Michael


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I was out looking at an A8 last night and thought I would look at the fender gap. It certainly doesn't look as jacked up as the VW. Does anyone know what the millimeter measurements are for the distance from center of wheel to the bottom of the fender for an A8? 
I know it is 417mm for VW Phaeton in the front wheel area, but what about an Audi? If they are the same, then to me the problem can be solved by VW making the fenders lower in the future and not lower the entire car.


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

I'm fascinated by this series of posts. I was told Dr. Piech had a team of 300 engineers working for three years to develop the Phaeton and that the vehicle was built to HIS specifications. Many engineers quit, for they felt some of Dr. Piech’s requests were unrealistic. For those of you that attended the AH GTG, Mr. Hunt mentioned why the dash vents operated the way they do. Did you realize the default temperature of the HVAC system is 72 degrees because that is Dr. Piech's preference? 
The reason I bring this up is the suspension; at least the European specs, are also designed to Dr. Piech's preferences. I’m sure this is one reason why the Audi and Phaeton suspension, coefficient of drag, roof line, A, B and C pillars, fenders, and wheel flares are so different. It’s not just about external styling, but the impact these variables have on performance and handling.
Sorry about the rant, but reading all this has me alternating between LMAO and frowning.
~PC
_Modified by PhaetonChix at 11:10 AM 5-27-2005_


_Modified by PhaetonChix at 11:11 AM 5-27-2005_


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_
Fred:
Frankly, I think you should drop the idea of designing such a product, the expense would be very great. If you need Volkswagen 4 corner air suspension that gives you the very great range of travel that you have described, all adjustable from within the cabin of the vehicle, using the rotary switch you describe - why not just order that directly from Volkswagen? 
That gives you a spread of 140 mm - over a foot, all adjustable from one control, right behind the shift lever.
Michael

Um, no. I described a range of travel identical to the Phaeton stock suspension range with driver control over the lower 10 mm of range at low speeds and parked. 
Your link went to the Touareg Forum, I own a Phaeton.







A Phaeton with a one foot range would surely be unsafe and certainly stupid looking on some level. 
Do you think VW engineers originally wanted to give the driver more control over the suspension but changed their minds because of the legal situation here in the States?



_Modified by Paldi at 12:54 PM 5-27-2005_


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Your link went to the Touareg Forum, I own a Phaeton.









That's odd -- when I clicked on it, it took me to VW's website, specifically the location of "Build Your Own Touareg".


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## PhaetonChix (Dec 16, 2004)

*Re: (Paldi)*

Fred, 
I think the engineers selected ride height correct for a luxury sedan, not an SUV like the Touareg or a sport wagon like the Allroad. Each vehicle has its own unique attributes. 
Legal seems to have more impact on the back end (owners manuals, ad disclaimers) than the design cycle. 
~PC


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (Paldi)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Paldi* »_Do you think VW engineers originally wanted to give the driver more control over the suspension but changed their minds because of the legal situation here in the States?

No, not at all. I think PC summed up the effect of the US litigation problem quite well in her post, above. All I can add to that is the following: If there is a particular feature on a vehicle that VW of A doesn't want to bring to the NAR market due to safety or litigation concerns, they simply ask that it be deleted on NAR product. The engine start button is a good example of this, and so is remote control of windows via the engine key fob. In all such cases, the ROW product will have the feature, and the NAR product will not.
What you are proposing goes well beyond anything like that - you are asking for an ability to control vehicle suspension that is more appropriate to an off-road vehicle than to a limousine, which is what a Phaeton is. The only suspension difference between a NAR and ROW Phaeton is the default ride height of the vehicle, and that change was made due to engineering concerns (higher curbs and wheel stops in NAR), not legal concerns. Along a similar line, a Phaeton sold in Finland will have a slight differences in the engine cooling system from a Phaeton sold in Dubai - again, regional engineering adjustments, not legal concerns.
Michael


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## streetsounds (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (Paldi)*

One day I was asked how to lower the new D3 A8 and I gave an answer. Next I was asked how to lower a Phaeton. I gave an answer. Then I get a slap in my face from some self made VAG-COM lowering expert here on the forum telling me the lowering module we sell would be overpriced.
Today I was asked again and referred to this post. Pictures say more then words I was told so I went out and took some pictures. Please pay attention to the time and date. The pictures are no Photoshop job like some other people post here.
Car specs:
2005 Audi A8 short wheel base (fully loaded) owned by Tunershop North America
_Wheels are custom made to Tunershop specs by OZ North America_
Front 20x10.5 *OZ Leonardo* with 285/30-20 with *Dunlop SP9000*
Rear 20x11 *OZ Leonardo* with 285/30-20 with *Dunlop SP9000*
Special thanks to OZ for building the rims for us and Dunlop for supplying the tires.
This info is for the people who interested in the correct solution from a tuner with over 13 years of experience. The lowering module is available for the VW Phaeton, Audi A8, Touareg and Cayenne.
The pictures show the car all the way lifted and all the way lowered. Sorry about the quality. I had to rush before it got to dark.


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## streetsounds (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (PhaetonChix)*

Thank you http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Paldi (Sep 4, 2004)

*Re: (streetsounds)*

Very nice ride Steve! 
I'm surprised you can move her up and down so quickly. Thanks for posting the photos.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (streetsounds)*

Hello Steve:
Thanks for posting the pictures. They do an excellent job of demonstrating what your suspension adjustment module is capable of doing.
I'm not sure if you were referring to me when you wrote _"Then I get a slap in my face from some self made VAG-COM lowering expert here on the forum telling me the lowering module we sell would be overpriced."_ If so, then I need to apologize to you, because I didn't convey my opinion lucidly enough to provide the correct understanding.
My belief is that if a Phaeton owner wants to make a one-time adjustment to his or her ride height - for example, to remove the +10 mm upward adjustment that is applied to all North American Phaetons, and return the vehicle to the original design specification - then the best way to do it (best being defined as both most practical and best engineering practice) is to recode the existing suspension controller to "55" from "77", re-adapt the suspension exactly as VW directs, then check the alignment of the 4 wheels to ensure that they are all still within allowable specifications.
If a Phaeton owner wants to have dynamic control over ride height, then the only way to get dynamic control is with an aftermarket module such as the one you sell. The price is moot - as far as we know, there is only one such product on the market, and it sells for what it sells for, period. The only concern I have about dynamic control of ride height relates to wheel alignment. Wheel alignment will change when ride height is changed. This is a geometric fact, and we all know it. The concern that the VW engineers have is that the wheels are aligned at the factory after the ride height has been set. If the ride height is then changed, there is no way of knowing if wheel alignment will still be withing allowable limits.
This may not be a problem for people who purchase and install your module, then have the wheel alignment checked (and, if necessary, adjusted) at the suspension setting that they intend to use normally. If that person then chooses a higher setting for temporary use (e.g. snowstorm), or a lower setting for temporary use (e.g. Friday night cruising on the main drag), the effect of the temporary settings on tire wear, handling, and safety will be minimal to negligible.
What we (myself and the VW engineers) are trying to stress here is that if you make a permanent or quasi-permanent change to ride height, you have to check wheel alignment. If you look in the Touareg forum, and see all the posts from owners there who are having troubles with tire wear, directional stability, etc., you will see a very strong correlation between owners who post about suspension tweaks, and owners who post about alignment problems.
I hope this clarifies things. I'm not insulting your product, nor am I saying it is not a good product. I'm just saying that it is not (in my humble opinion) the best answer for an owner who wants a single, one-time, permanent ride height adjustment, and I am also saying that any owner who installs a module that allows dynamic ride height adjustment needs to pay close attention to the issue of wheel alignment at various ride heights.
Michael


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## chrisj428 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Re: (streetsounds)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetsounds* »_Then I get a slap in my face from some self made VAG-COM lowering expert here on the forum telling me the lowering module we sell would be overpriced.

WOWZERS! "Bowl of milk, please, garcon!"
Was that really necessary? 
The point is this: for the majority of us, paying $399 or however much VAG-COM and a cable are so that we can lower our cars to EUROPEAN FACTORY SPEC and LEAVE IT THERE, whilst making a few other modifications (seat belt chime if so desired, remote windows, etc.) is an appropriate balance of cost vs. benefit. In which case, a $1300 black box would be pointless. (Forgive if I have the price wrong -- I wasn't able to find it listed on your website.)
However, if someone wants the ability to make the car go boing-boing down the street (a slight exaggeration, of course), then an aftermarket black box in that price range would make sense. 
I'm of the personal opinion, though, that the novelty of being able to change one's ride height more often that one's underwear would wear off after a whlie. It's similar to owning your first turbo. For the first few months, you're averaging 12 mpg because you like to feel the boost and hear the whine. So, you goose it and back off, goose again and back off. After a while, the "newness" of the experience wears off and you learn to appreciate the boost and noise as they arise through normal operation.
My $0.02.
And, FWIW, I learned early on in sales there are two ways to promote your product -- extolling the virtues of what you have to offer and bashing the other person's offering. Personal experience has shown that the former is the more desirable (and profitable) of the two in the long run...


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## dcowan699 (Nov 22, 2004)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

My point was that I only wanted to move mine down 10mm and leave it there and since I had already invested in a VAGCOM ($250 plus a $1500 laptop that I bought at the same time), then why not try it first. 
The module impresses me greatly. Were you turning a knob to adjust it and was that device located in the trunk?
As good as the Audi looks slammed down, the first thing I did was cringe at the thoughts of scraping a buckled up piece of asphalt at a major intersection where trucks have beaten it upwards.
Of course I'm sure that level would only be used at a "cruising" scenario at the mall and I would look stupid doing that at my age.
I will say , I can't get the Phaeton to drop below around 400mm. That looks like 380mm!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## streetsounds (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_I'm not sure if you were referring to me when you wrote _"Then I get a slap in my face from some self made VAG-COM lowering expert here on the forum telling me the lowering module we sell would be overpriced."_ If so, then I need to apologize to you, because I didn't convey my opinion lucidly enough to provide the correct understanding.

I can't remember who said it. I just know that some or more referred to it as overpriced.

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_My belief is that if a Phaeton owner wants to make a one-time adjustment to his or her ride height - for example, to remove the +10 mm upward adjustment that is applied to all North American Phaetons, and return the vehicle to the original design specification - then the best way to do it (best being defined as both most practical and best engineering practice) is to recode the existing suspension controller to "55" from "77", re-adapt the suspension exactly as VW directs, then check the alignment of the 4 wheels to ensure that they are all still within allowable specifications.

It may be true from you perspective however 10mm (0.39 inch) drop is not visible to anyone unless you point it out. Don’t you think we tried VAG-COM before we offered the lowering module? We are known for over 13 years in Europe that we customize VW, Audi, Porsche, BMW and Mercedes. If we could achieve with the VAG-COM the result customer are requesting we would not offer the module. Neither would and other Tuner for that matter. Remember I run 285/30-20 on 20x10.5 and even they look lost if the car is raised.
Lowering your car on stock rims so you know you did it – well it’s alright. Adding larger aftermarket rims you will have to lower the car below 20mm to make it look perfect.

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_If a Phaeton owner wants to have dynamic control over ride height, then the only way to get dynamic control is with an aftermarket module such as the one you sell. The only concern I have about dynamic control of ride height relates to wheel alignment. Wheel alignment will change when ride height is changed. This is a geometric fact, and we all know it. The concern that the VW engineers have is that the wheels are aligned at the factory after the ride height has been set. If the ride height is then changed, there is no way of knowing if wheel alignment will still be withing allowable limits.

You are right from the technical perspective. However something you have to take in consideration. Customers who will change the OEM rims to anything past factory specs do it for the looks. That would include lowering to get the whole car looking good. Many off them will scarify the alignment issue over the looks. If you like to make sure that everything is too factory specification you should not start modifying anything including the recalibration of the lowering module. Also if you point out the alignment you should advice that after you hit a larger pot whole you should make sure the alignment is still in the limits. 

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_What we (myself and the VW engineers) are trying to stress here is that if you make a permanent or quasi-permanent change to ride height, you have to check wheel alignment. If you look in the Touareg forum, and see all the posts from owners there who are having troubles with tire wear, directional stability, etc., you will see a very strong correlation between owners who post about suspension tweaks, and owners who post about alignment problems.

I did not know you work for VW. We know VW engineers as well and each and everyone will off course stress the alignment if we talk about tire wear. On the other hand they will not think about alignment after they see a nicely done Phaeton or A8

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ I'm not insulting your product, nor am I saying it is not a good product. I'm just saying that it is not (in my humble opinion) the best answer for an owner who wants a single, one-time, permanent ride height adjustment, and I am also saying that any owner who installs a module that allows dynamic ride height adjustment needs to pay close attention to the issue of wheel alignment at various ride heights

You are not insulting our product. We are the reseller not the manufacturer as is JE Design, B&B, ABT, MTM, Brabus, Lorinser and I am sure all these companies have no idea what they are talking about.


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## streetsounds (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (chrisj428)*


_Quote, originally posted by *chrisj428* »_However, if someone wants the ability to make the car go boing-boing down the street (a slight exaggeration, of course), then an aftermarket black box in that price range would make sense.
 
I assume you referring to a Honda Civic “when you say make the car go boing-boing down the street”
There is no way to get the Phaeton or a new Audi A8 drive like that even if they are lowered.


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## streetsounds (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (dcowan699)*


_Quote, originally posted by *dcowan699* »_The module impresses me greatly. Were you turning a knob to adjust it and was that device located in the trunk?
As good as the Audi looks slammed down, the first thing I did was cringe at the thoughts of scraping a buckled up piece of asphalt at a major intersection where trucks have beaten it upwards.
Of course I'm sure that level would only be used at a "cruising" scenario at the mall and I would look stupid doing that at my age.
I will say, I can't get the Phaeton to drop below around 400mm. That looks like 380mm!!! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Actually the pictures show the adjustment done via the Audi MMI not with a knob at the actual device (that’s why I included the time, adjusting would take more then that







).
Said that it should come in mind that incase you drive the major intersection where trucks have beaten it upwards you simply raise the car while driving. In the Phaeton you would flip the original switch where you lift the car.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (streetsounds)*


_Quote, originally posted by *streetsounds* »_I did not know you work for VW. 

I don't, and I don't think I said anything whatsoever that suggested that I did.

_Quote, originally posted by *streetsounds* »_You are right from the technical perspective.

I thank you for acknowledging that. I try very hard to only post information that is technically correct.
This conversation about the product you offer is getting just a little too heated, a little too personal, and a little too argumentative for me - and for that reason, I am now going to bow out of it.
I wish you the very best of success with this product.
Michael


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## streetsounds (Jun 28, 2003)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Hi Michael, I referred to your statement

_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_What we (myself and the VW engineers) are trying to stress

Nobody doubts that your information is not correct. I also do not think the conversation is getting to heated or personal. We are not the manufacturer of the module and I just reflect answers to question I receive towards the different solutions.
However I do not understand where you coming from. This whole forum is based on aftermarket products. Tuner advertise their service and products they sell. If I ask VW engineers about Turbo upgrades they would also point out negative concerns. Why ? Because there is the cheap way and the correct way off doing it.
High end tuners like MTM, ABT, Brabus, etc are still in business after 20 years and got a reputable name in the industry for their quality products and knowledge. Funny enough they also use the same lowering solution we offer – I wonder why.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (streetsounds)*

I wish you the very best of success with this product.
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

I hope this is ok to post this here if not please move it, i did a search and this is what I got. The question is Should I order the Key-USB interface or do I need the Hex-USB-CAN for the Phaeton I guess the question is do I need the CAN version that can talk to CAN systems for the 2005 Phaeton?
Thank you .


_Modified by GripperDon at 9:19 PM 6-8-2005_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Hi Don:
You don't need the CAN interface to talk to a Phaeton - HEX alone will do - but it makes the most sense to buy a HEX + CAN interface. This is because all new VW's and Audi's will require the CAN capability, therefore the resale value of a HEX + CAN cable will stay quite high, and the resale value of a HEX only cable is expected to fall like a stone over the next year or so.
There is a bit more information about VAG-COM here:
VAS 5051 Diagnostic and Programming Tool
VAG-COM Diagnostic Scan Tool and the Phaeton - reference information 
....Additional Information about the VAG-COM diagnostic scan tool
Michael


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

Thanks ordering today!
Update! Talked to Andy ordered and also the Bently 2005 manual to be released in September with access of current manual for now.










_Modified by GripperDon at 11:36 AM 6-9-2005_


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## GripperDon (May 9, 2005)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I got the tool and will start on the chimes on Tuesday, I will get a scan of all the origional setting first as per your request. What is you opinion of leaving the ride height alone and going to the 255/55/18 tires?
Don


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (GripperDon)*

Try changing the ride height first and seeing if you like the results. If you like the results, you can then take the car to your dealer and have them check that the alignment is still within spec. This should not cost very much. If you don't like the look, you can either lower the car further (at your own risk, so far as road hazards are concerned), or put it back the way it was, which then means no alignment check is needed.
Here's a link to the instructions explaining how to lower the Phaeton: How to Adapt (Adjust, Calibrate) Phaeton Suspension & Ride Height
Michael


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## Mike deez (May 22, 2011)

adibaiz said:


> Need help in lowering my baby...specially now that it has "new 20inch shoes".
> I'm in South Florida/Fort Lauderdale area.Any help or suggestions greatly appreciated.
> Will post pictures of the car with the Lowenhart LDR's hopefully tomorrow/been very busy at work.


 What's up man. Just curious if you know any good places 
In fort Lauderdale area to have the springs installed. I just got a 2011 Jetta 
And want to make sure I can trust them 
I was thinking about street and sand toys. But I think they just work on 
Older vehicles? Not sure. Any help. Appreciate it


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

Photos re-hosted.

Michael


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