# Another Noob question- Aux Heater



## converse420 (Nov 28, 2012)

On inspection of the build report for my 2011 Phaeton I see..
107 9M5 L ZUH Auxiliary heater.
I'm not sure how to interpret this, is it the notorious parking heater and if so how do I use it as I don't have any obvious controls?

Apologies in advance if this is a stupid question!
Dale


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi Dale,
What model is your phaeton?
TDIs used to come with an additional heater that would automaticaly turn on below 5ºC, but I am not sure about 2011 units.
This heater could be coded through VCDS so that it could be programmed and manually operated from the center console.
Perhaps that is your case, the heater is there, but unless you tweak it, you will not be able to operate manualy.

Gabriel


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

The heater timer is integrated in the car's multimedia system. In the older ZAB central display equipped cars (up to 2009) the timer is accessible from the menus on the main display. 

All older (ca. up to 2010 if my memory serves me right) diesel Phaetons were built with the heater in place (programmed as "supplemental heaters"). The ones ordered with parking heater from factory got the remote control, a simple 4-way water valve, some extra coding of control units and a price tag of about +2500 euros (wow!)

You have the newer RNS-810 radio/nav equipped car. In your case, the timer menu should be accessible from the central display in the tacho. Alternatively, the factory heater can be controller with the "telestart" remote fob. The facelifted cars are not equipped with Webasto supplemental heater as standard - Webasto is installed only on cars ordered with the parking heater option. As it is included in your sticker you should have it. Check the central display menus first. Another relatively simple way is to scan the car's diagnostic bus (with VCDS or similar) and look up for controller #18, it is present only if the Webasto is there. If you are missing the telestart fob, you can get a new one and pair it with your car. You need to be careful on which fob to get - not all are compatible with the receivers used in Phaetons.

Happy hunting!

Jouko


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## converse420 (Nov 28, 2012)

Thanks Gabriel/Jouko 
To answer your questions in one go, as far as I can tell my car is a late 2011 SWB 3.0 TDI. From a UK perspective this is a new car registered in Nov 2012, although I understand that it had been held in stock unregistered for several months by the dealer as an ill conceived purchase of 8 Phaetons prior to VW's last 'discount'. Anyhoo from my perspective in the UK it is a new car with 62 reg plates etc....
I have the RNS810, but nothing in the menus to suggest a heater, and I certainly dont have a separate fob.
I should also say that despite shelling out some serious cash for a new car, I am at heart an engineer so I'm always looking to tweak, tune change and improve!
Ironically, this is only an issue because every car Ive had in the past 10 years lived in my garage overnight and on purchasing the Phaeton on impulse after a test drive I found that it was too long for my garage by 1 cm!
Unfortunately this means that my twice weekly 160 mile commute starts with a 5 AM de-icing which I could do without, so if there is any wizardy WRT preheating it would be greatly appreciated!


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello again Dale;
Just have a look underneath the front left corner of your car, I mean the UK's passenger's side. If there is a small exhaust pipe, then you have the diesel heater fitted to your car.
Cheers.

 Gabriel


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## 8secondquarters (Apr 7, 2005)

Not sure when or if the 3.0 tdi's have lost the webasto supplementary heater I have just enabled mine on a late 2011 gp3 
If you are any where near Heathrow pm me I can have a look and enable for you


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

Another related question please...

my Auxilliary Heater stopped working a few weeks ago. The car is under warranty so I took it to the main dealer. They did a diagnosis and it came up with a "Glowplug with flame monitoring error". They changed the glowplug but they said it still doesn't work so they have ordered a whole new Aux Heater (at huge cost to the Warranty company).
Whilst I am quite happy to have a new unit, I was wondering if it is possible that they just haven't 'unlocked' it properly as they admitted they have never worked on one before. (I don't have a VCDS to check it).

Any thoughts ?


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> Another related question please...
> 
> my Auxilliary Heater stopped working a few weeks ago. The car is under warranty so I took it to the main dealer. They did a diagnosis and it came up with a "Glowplug with flame monitoring error". They changed the glowplug but they said it still doesn't work so they have ordered a whole new Aux Heater (at huge cost to the Warranty company).
> Whilst I am quite happy to have a new unit, I was wondering if it is possible that they just haven't 'unlocked' it properly as they admitted they have never worked on one before. (I don't have a VCDS to check it).
> ...


They would definitely need to unlock it as well as fix it. You can't tell without a VCDS. The new one probably won't work either if they don't unlock it... but I hope the fitting and testing instructions probably cover this.


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## Silky6053 (Dec 3, 2012)

I have the same '107 9M5 L ZUH Auxiliary heater' and controller 18 in my 2010 3.0 tdi. I had assumed it was the heater which continues to circulate warm air when you turn the engine off and press the climate control 'rest' button.

If that is not the case, and the heater is a programmable supplemental heater, how is it turned on via VCDS. There is no option in my RNS810 or MDI display.

Glynn


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

> They did a diagnosis and it came up with a "Glowplug with flame monitoring error". They changed the glowplug but they said it still doesn't work so they have ordered a whole new Aux Heater (at huge cost to the Warranty company).


This is the normal procedure. A bit costly if you are to pay for the repairs with your own money. The glow plug flame monitoring is based (I believe - not documented anywhere) on the measurement of resistance change at the plug as the heater heats up. This is monitored by the heater's internal control board. Although the control board can be easily dismantled from the heater unit, it is not available separately. This applies to the VW specific units as well as generic Webasto models.

Most of the heater service shops I have visited have a pile of scrapped heaters due to control board faults. Luckily there are quite a few repair specialists around nowadays who know how to fix most faults. Webasto themselves are still just selling new units.



> If that is not the case, and the heater is a programmable supplemental heater, how is it turned on via VCDS.


Yes, the presence of controller 18 means that you have the Webasto unit in place. I am sure someone will PM you the instructions. 

Jouko


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## entwisi (Feb 19, 2013)

If they could pm them to me as well I'd be grateful


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## Silky6053 (Dec 3, 2012)

Got this working fine on my GP2. Many thanks for for the help guys. 

Glynn


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Silky6053 said:


> Got this working fine on my GP2. Many thanks for for the help guys.
> 
> Glynn


 Good to know. And that should guarantee warm weather for the next ten months now!


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## glacken (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi. 

I have one of those pipes at my front passenger wheel. (2009 3.tdi) 
After a short trip in cold weather it stays on after I switch the engine off and makes my garage really smell of diesel. 
Will somebody please tell me what it actually does? 
I have heard that it is something to do with the temp of the diesel going back to the tank and possibly heating the fuel on start up etc. 
It is not listed on my sheet of items that the car has. I have checked the codes. 
I have just travelled 900 miles in two hops and the Phaeton has not missed a beat. So quiet. 
Oddly on a very wet morning the gearbox needed two start ups to function. Car must not like being out at night. 
Thanks for your help as always. 

Glacken


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Hi - all V6TDIs up to I think GP2 facelift have the diesel auxiliary heater. I believe it fires itself up at ambient temperatures lower than about 5C because the engine does not generate enough heat to keep itself at operating temperature and provide enough heat to keep the cabin warm. Stretches the credulity a bit... but that's the story. 

As it's fitted to perform this auto function, you can alter the s'ware to make it available as a parking heater too. 

M


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## W8CMP (Mar 20, 2004)

I have a late 2009 3.0 TDI with the RNS 810.

There is nothing in the menus to suggest I have the heater, but I believe I do. Do I need VCDS to enable this or are there some instructions that I could follow which could be PMd to me ?

Thanks in advance people...


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

W8CMP said:


> PMd to me ?


 Yes. Good luck.


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## W8CMP (Mar 20, 2004)

Thanks very much indeed...will be interested to give it a go and see what happens. Shame winter seems to have left us behind now though, so will have to await next winter to get the best use from it.

Cheers
Chris


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

W8CMP said:


> Thanks very much indeed...will be interested to give it a go and see what happens. Shame winter seems to have left us behind now though, so will have to await next winter to get the best use from it.
> 
> Cheers
> Chris


 No so, if it is 20Cor above outside, the mod will enable the fan to run in Ventilation mode. This only operates if it started remotely or on the timer - Handy in the summer too! 

Johan


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## W8CMP (Mar 20, 2004)

Would this be of any use to us Phaeton owners who want to upgrade ?

http://www.carsystems.pl/vw-touareg...e-kit-engine-heater-parking-heater,id497.html

Or is the Touareg heater / system entirely different ?


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## wouterjansen60 (Aug 27, 2011)

W8CMP said:


> Would this be of any use to us Phaeton owners who want to upgrade ?
> 
> http://www.carsystems.pl/vw-touareg...e-kit-engine-heater-parking-heater,id497.html
> 
> Or is the Touareg heater / system entirely different ?


 Hi, 
Please be advised to use the only correct remote controller, like T90 for the Phaeton. Look below mentioned for a detailled description under *#221* 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Troubleshooting-etc.&p=80643390#post80643390 

Cheers, 
Wouter


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## FootSore (Aug 22, 2006)

n968412L said:


> Hi - all V6TDIs up to I think GP2 facelift have the diesel auxiliary heater. I believe it fires itself up at ambient temperatures lower than about 5C because the engine does not generate enough heat to keep itself at operating temperature and provide enough heat to keep the cabin warm. Stretches the credulity a bit... but that's the story.
> 
> As it's fitted to perform this auto function, you can alter the s'ware to make it available as a parking heater too.
> 
> M


 Almost. 
I beleive it is due to the warm up time of the diesel block. This is a luxury vehicle and the main engine block takes so long to warm up to be able to provide heat to the cabin it was deemed unacceptable. Imagine if your car didn't warm up for 15-minutes. The Webasto unit was put in so that Phaeton diesel drivers could be warm in a few minutes. 

Once the block is warmed through it is more than man enough to warm the vehicle. I have wondered if the time to awm vehicle was possibly one of the degin constraints. 

My first car was a soft-top Suzuki Jeep and in the winter I sometimes had to scrape both sides of the window before setting off. That was cold. 

My Phaeton has heated seats, a heated wheel and a seperate heater to heat the cabin up - very nice thank you very much. And now it has a timer enabled to allow it to be warm before I even start off! 

Dave


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

FootSore said:


> Almost.
> I beleive it is due to the warm up time of the diesel block. This is a luxury vehicle and the main engine block takes so long to warm up to be able to provide heat to the cabin it was deemed unacceptable. Imagine if your car didn't warm up for 15-minutes. The Webasto unit was put in so that Phaeton diesel drivers could be warm in a few minutes.
> 
> Once the block is warmed through it is more than man enough to warm the vehicle. I have wondered if the time to awm vehicle was possibly one of the degin constraints.


 Hi Dave - you might be right - but I'm pretty sure there's a learned posting somewhere in the archives on this forum that givse my version. But agree your logic in that the more recent Phaeton's don't have it and I doubt if the heat generation from the engine has changed that much. 

On the other hand, efficient diesels do not seem to generate that much heat. Years ago my diesel golfs used to start blowing cold air on the long run down into Blackburn from the Oswaldtwistle moors in the winter - ie with the engine on the overrun (or more likely idling) there was so little heat generated that the thermostat shut. 

Regards 

M


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

n968412L said:


> Hi Dave - you might be right - but I'm pretty sure there's a learned posting somewhere in the archives on this forum that givse my version. But agree your logic in that the more recent Phaeton's don't have it and I doubt if the heat generation from the engine has changed that much.
> 
> On the other hand, efficient diesels do not seem to generate that much heat. Years ago my diesel golfs used to start blowing cold air on the long run down into Blackburn from the Oswaldtwistle moors in the winter - ie with the engine on the overrun (or more likely idling) there was so little heat generated that the thermostat shut.
> 
> ...


 
Newer Phaetons do have a supplementary heater, it is just no longer a webasto, it is now an electric supplementary heater to give the the boost required in cold weather. 

This winter I noticed that the car turn the heater on as soon as you stand still for any length of time, so clearly the heating requirements from the cabin exceeds what the engine can produce in terms of waste heat. 

That was more noticeable in our GP3 (which has a Webasto as it has the parking heater option - but does with out the electrical supplementary heater) as it has been tuned to have lower CO2 and better mpg - thus less waste heat. 

Regards, 

Johan


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## n968412L (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks Johan - useful clarification! 

Regards 

M


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Yeap, it is known as PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) heater. Basically it is an electric resistor embeded into the heating system water to air heater, similar to those that sit underneath the front seats to warm the air directed towards the rear of the cabin.
Several brands such as VW, Mercedes, Subaru and so on are currently installing those heaters on their newer cars.
I once had the chance to test drive a Mercedes ML 350 CDI which had that type of heater and I must admit that it started to blow warm air quite quickly. To me, the downside is that you cannot preheat the engine.

Gabriel


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Just to summarise information on the Webasto independent fuel-burning heaters offered in the Phaeton, there are three types: an Auxiliary heater burning diesel, one burning petrol/gasoline and a Supplemental heater which burns diesel. 

The *Auxiliary heater* is a paid-for option and heats the vehicle interior. It is switched on manually using a separate remote key fob to activate it from the comfort of the house before setting out for the car, or pre-programmed by using a day-of-the-week clock timer in the central display. 

The *Supplemental heater *is fitted as standard on pre-2011 diesel Phaetons to heat the engine block more quickly after ignition, which reduces engine fuel consumption and lowers emissions at startup. As an incidental benefit it makes the car interior heater active faster once the engine is started. The engine fuel saved is more than the heater's fuel burned in some latitudes and operating conditions, for example where the average ambient temperature is lower than 5 degrees C at engine startup for many days each year. 

The Supplemental heater controls can be re-programmed to work in conjunction with the dormant central display timer to heat the engine block (and unintentially the HVAC heater core) in the same way as the Auxiliary heater is controlled. 

The physical difference between the two installations is that the Auxiliary heater has a water valve system that restricts hot water circulation to the HVAC heater core and has a third party remote control receiver fitted in its circuit board. 

The principal thread contining discussion, repairs and modifications is this (long) one: 
Parking Heaters (Standheizungen) Retrofitting Troubleshooting etc. 

There are some cut-away training photos in this thread: 
Standheizungen (Parking-Heater) OEM installation 

The Webasto burner unit is used in other cars, but, naturally, the Phaeton version has a customised CAN-bus interface that is more sophisticated than those others. 


Chris


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

Paximus said:


> The *Supplemental heater *is fitted as standard on pre-2011 diesel Phaetons to heat the engine block more quickly after ignition, which reduces engine fuel consumption and lowers emissions at startup. As an incidental benefit it makes the car interior heater active faster once the engine is started. The engine fuel saved is more than the heater's fuel burned in some latitudes and operating conditions, for example where the average ambient temperature is lower than 5 degrees C at engine startup for many days each year.


 Just to be absolutely clear here; Chris' text applies to GP0, GP1 and GP2 Phaetons, but NOT to GP3 vehicles (as stated by Chris, post Model Year 2011 Phaetons or Since the facelift). 

In a GP3, a diesel burning heater is only installed in vehicles where the 'Parking Heater' option has been specified, so installed as a 'Auxiliary Heater' 

All other GP3 vehicles with a diesel engine have an electric supplementary heater that can not be modified or programmed in any way to work without the engine operating. 

This was done as offers further fuel savings and has significant operational advantages (no spool down cycle required when parking in a garage as a good example) 

Regards, 

Johan


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## robbie-rocket-pants (Mar 25, 2012)

My UK 2011 GP3 (facelift) 3.0 TDi looks like it has a webasto fitted (small exhaust pipe at front left). 

If I enable this as a parking heater will the timer function appear on the mfd display, as the RNS-810 does not control HVAC functions like the J523 did on my GP2?


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## Realist42 (May 14, 2006)

robbie-rocket-pants said:


> My UK 2011 GP3 (facelift) 3.0 TDi looks like it has a webasto fitted (small exhaust pipe at front left).
> 
> If I enable this as an aux heater will the timer function appear on the mfd display as the RNS-810 does not control HVAC functions like the J523 did on my GP2?


Hi,

Well that is largely correct, but the Parking heater functionality still resides in the RNS810, it is the only bit left that is still in there.

Regards,

J


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