# 09A reverse gear suddenly problem



## Noykov (Jan 2, 2009)

*09A reverse gear suddenly problem IN HALF SOLVED*

Happy New Year!
Excuse me fo my bad language, but I'm from Bulgaria /another side of the Earth/.
I have VW Golf 4 1.9 TDI PD with Tiptronic gearbox /09A/.
The car is 7 years old with 170K kilometers /~100K miles/ on the clock. 
Several days ago, when I go out my work, I can't engage my reverse gear.
The selector lever moves into reverse, on the dashboard "R" appear, but the gear does not engage.
The car drives fine when going forward.
I have diagnostic software /VAG-COM 311.2/. The diagnostic shows next fault:
Address 02 -----------------------------
Controller: 09A 927 750 H A
Component: G5 Getriebe 09A 0138 
1 Fault Found:
00281 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (G68)
03-10 - No Signal - Intermittent
-----------------------------
I erased the fault. After 200 kilometers I diagnostic again, but does not show any fault.
First of all, I intend to check ATF level, but I can't measure the ATF temperature.
VAG-COM shows only:
 
 







Sorry, for stupid question: 
Previous day, before this trouble situation, I chnged the engine oil in the little private garage.
Can the fitter make a mistake for a plug at a moment, and to drain out for instance 1/2 litre of ATF?
Any help/suggestions greatly appreciated.
Best regards!
Conko Noykov

_Modified by Noykov at 7:42 AM 1-25-2009_


_Modified by Noykov at 7:45 AM 1-25-2009_


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## coolvdub (Feb 19, 2000)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem (Noykov)*

Conko,
You need to use Measuring Block 002 to read the ATF Temp. And yes the mechanic could have made a mistake, but I doubt it. Your English is great, better than some who speak it as a first language. As far as the no reverse, I'm not sure what is wrong, but there is a plastic piston for reverse that cracks and causes transmission problems. I hope it's not that and a simple problem. Happy New Year.


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## Noykov (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem (coolvdub)*

Hi! Thank you very much for your reply Mr.Don Jones /coolvdub/!!!
Here is my story:
When I requested In local distributor of VW in my country, as if I want they to play Beethoven's 5th Symphony. In several 
other places the price for repairing was huge.
Then I get a decision with my friend George /with nickname Jocky/ to DIY. A lot of days I read of Internet about this 
transmission.
Little of theory in Bulgarian:
 
Part of very useful information for diagnostic:
 
We Measuring the pressure:
 
The value of pressure was OK!
 
Very strange, because according experts the most probably reason is cracked reverse piston !!!
 
Then we begin to remove the transaxle:
 
 
 
 
 
 
The Planetary gear I with clutch K2 /on the left in the pictute/
 
However we check K2 and B1
 
In that case, we made the specific tool
 
Unfortunately the K2 & B1 was OK.
We arrived to the stalemate!!!
The valve body. All solenoids was OK electrically and Mechanically!!!
 
The maze too!!!
 
The George /with nickname Jocky/ told me:
Flashes through my mind an idea:
If brake band doesn't work - the reverse gear doesn't work too, because there is Sprag clutch. The sprag clutch is locked 
from 1th to 4th gear, in the 5-th it of no significance, because the clutch K4 is locked, but in reverse gear the sprag 
clutch is NOT locked /depending of direction of rotation/. We must to split the gearbox!!!
 
 
*Really!!! The band brake is broken!!!*
 
George discover the problem:
 
The broken band brake:
 
I order it, and expect to receive it until middle of the next week. The cost is 131 BGN. (today 1 USD=1.506 BGN)
Best regards!
Conko Noykov



_Modified by Noykov at 7:46 AM 1-25-2009_


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## coolvdub (Feb 19, 2000)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem (Noykov)*

Conko,
You have done an excellent job finding the problem, thank you to George and you for taking the time to tear the transmission down and fix the problem. I'm sorry you had to go to such trouble to fix it. But the information you have found and the pictures will go a long way to help others who may have the same problem. You don't know how long I have wanted to see the inside of the transmission, and know exactly where the strainer is located, you have made my day. Are you going to replace the strainer(filter) while you have the gearbox split? Once again thank you, and congratulations for finding and fixing the problems instead of just replacing the transmission. I am going to ask the moderator of this forum to put your very helpful thread in the DIY/FAQ http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## adg44 (Aug 2, 2000)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem IN HALF SOLVED (Noykov)*

Added to FAQ.


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## coolvdub (Feb 19, 2000)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem IN HALF SOLVED ([email protected])*

Thank you Anthony


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## dime242 (Jan 23, 2008)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem IN HALF SOLVED (coolvdub)*

I have the same symptoms, but I have an 01M. Same problem?


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## Noykov (Jan 2, 2009)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem IN HALF SOLVED (dime242)*

Sorry, but I don't think so, because:
1. 01M is different transmission. 
2. My case is uncommon.One and all told me - the problem is a cracked reverse piston.
3. I haven't constructor's knowledges about other automatic gearboxes. I'm working in a Bank - IT department and my proffesion's field are LAN's. WAN,s ...
If somebody have a problem with 09A, I'll help whatever I can.
...








I have feft 1 litre ATF (G 052 990 A2), with pleasure I'd give someone who lives not so far.
I hope that you problem will be solved shrtly, easy and cheaply! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 
P.S. I covered the distance of 2K kilometers. The tranny seems to be excellently!
Regards!


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## kalelcar (Mar 15, 2009)

i have a sharan 2004. I had the no reverse problem but instead band was piston. then cahnge it, now the sharan have revers but no forward, ive changed 2 times valve body but no fixes, same problem, no forward. can somebody help me? thanks in advance.
Note sorry about my english.


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## Krisbg (Jun 15, 2007)

*Re: 09A reverse gear suddenly problem IN HALF SOLVED (Noykov)*

Hi
My Golf is also `02 1.9 TDI PD with 09A trany 300k km. Till now i didn`t hawe any troubles, BUT a week ago they cam.
I have only 1-st and rear gear.
The Vag-com sais:
Address 02 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 09A 927 750 N 
Component: AG5 Getriebe 09A 0163 
1 Fault Found:
00652 - Gear Monitoring
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
---------------------------------------------------------
Any suggestions?


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

This code appears when the TCM commands a gear but it doesn't see the trans making that gear ratio. It "sees" this by looking at engine rpm, input rpm and vehicle speed. Basically this means a slip of any type. 
Usually this code will make failsafe operation which I think is what you are interpreting as "1st and rear gear" only. 
Make sure its full of fluid. Then make sure the sensors are working. If those are fine then you have a internal part slipping. EDIT: Sometimes a solenoid sticking can cause this code also. 
Clearing the code and drive to see if you notice any operational problems before the code reoccurs. 


_Modified by CoolAirVw at 10:38 AM 9-6-2009_


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## Vals_house (May 19, 2010)

*Same tranny wont go in reverse or drive past 20mph when engine temp is cold!*

Im having similar problems with my 03 gti it has 116k miles on it and is an automatic tiptronic tranny. When at cold start the tranny will not engage in reverse. Once the car has reached the 190f temp it engages. 
Also during that time the car will not pass 3rd gear or go faster than 20mph, unless car is completly warmed up.
I was told by a vw mechanic at a vw dealership that it needs a tranny fluid flush and the seal is worn or the fluid is old and needs a change. 

Any advice would be greatly apprieciated.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

Wont upshift cold is commonly caused by the n92 solenoid. See the following thread.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...T-Jetta-not-shifting-gears-from-1st-when-cold

your reverse problems probably wont be fixed by n92 though. 

If your reverse works when warmed up then you dont have the same problem that is discussed in this thread. In other words you dont have a broken band.

EDIT: I dont remember what I was saying in this last paragaph, but I should have said... "N90 solenoid can stick and cause no reverse, especially no reverse cold."


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

*I only loose reverse gear when partially warmed up*

I have a 2004 Jetta TDI wagon with the 5 speed tiptronic transmission. It has 255,000 miles on it, and unfortunately I bought into the idea that VW says it is a 'lifetime' tranmission lubrication. Recently I lost reverse gear, almost all the time. I researched how to change the fluid, and have now done so 3 or 4 times. Now I can get reverse when the car is cold or fully warmed up, but there is a small band in the warm up cycle where it will not give me reverse gear. Ideas what thee problem is, anyone. Thanks in advance.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

N90 solenoid can cause no reverse. If it works sometimes and not othertimes, then you may have n90 solenoid sticking.

No easy diagnosis for this you just have to try it but its better than buying a trans!


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Before we get too deep in the causes for such a symptom I can say with near certainty that problem is internal. The next question is what are you willing to do yourself? To diagnose this properly will require at least a pressure gauge to check fluid pressure. It is good that you flushed the transmission, albeit a bit late, but fluid flushes are preventative measures like changing the oil on your engine. They will never, okay almost never, fix any problem and those freak instances where they do is usually because the filter had friction material, metal shavings, etc. in it restricting flow to the pump, but you will likely still need to rebuild the unit soon. That doesn't mean that every problem requires a rebuild. Let me know what you are willing to give a go with and I will discuss further about what to check and how this translates to your problem. 

Brad


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

*Brad*

I see you like in Woodbury. Is that in MN? I live in Hudson, WI. Do you know of a good rebuilder for this transmission locally?

Dave


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Well, I have built several and there are shops around here and there, though I would stay away from Certified Transmission in Stillwater. Is it something you would like to do yourself?

Brad


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

I'm looking for a person or place to fix it, I don't have the time. Can you?


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Did you want to fix it or rebuild the entire thing?

Brad


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

Brad,

I'm thinking I'd like to try just replacing the N9 solenoid if it can be done without removing the transmission. Can you give me a picture of it's location, the solenoid itself, and the cost?

Thanks,

Dave


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

FireKing73 said:


> Brad,
> 
> I'm thinking I'd like to try just replacing the N9 solenoid if it can be done without removing the transmission. Can you give me a picture of it's location, the solenoid itself, and the cost?
> 
> ...


Dave, please read the FAQ, specifically:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?1521077 and 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3469274

Read that and see if it is something you would want to tackle. It's not hard. Many 09A users decide to install a set of 9 solenoids, since a set is much cheaper that 9 individual solenoids, and they don't want to do the work again when the next solenoid goes away. My set of 9 was about $360 from cobratransmissions.com

But as Brad mentioned, you are not certain it is a solenoid yet, or even a solenoid plus another problem. In my case I knew at least one solenoid was bad.


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

One other possibility here could be a cracked reverse piston, mentioned above. Is that difficult to get at?

Again, the symtoms now after a few oil changes are:

1. No reverse when partially warmed up. I can get reverse when totally cold or fully warmed up. Depending on where I am in the warm up of the tranny, it will either not engage or have a long delay, then engage.

2. When in the same partially warmed up state, the shift from 3rd to 4th can have a longer than normal dely in it.

Other than these two thing, the tranny performs well.

After reading through the many articles (thanks to everyone for being so helpful) I believe I'm ready to try replacing all the solenoids myself.

Please give me your thoughts about the Possible reverse piston.

Thanks,

Dave


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

I'm sure somebody more experienced will step in if I'm wrong, but AFAIK if you have a cracked reverse piston, then reverse is gone ... it does not come and go depending on temperature.

A pressure test would be the right way to test for that.


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Unfortunately, cracked pistons can be temperature sensitive, though they will act perfectly when cold, as the fluid is much more viscous, and become worse as the temperature increase, thinning out the fluid and causing material expansion, even on low thermal expansion materials such as plastic/composite. You could swing by sometime and we could do a pressure check and see if the pressure shows a leak or slow apply. There are no shifting elements in common between "R" and 4th gear that change at these times. In regards to the cracked high clutch/reverse piston, the later versions did not seem to have this problem, whereas, the earlier models did, in fact the published fix is to replace the early desin with a later design through Mazda. Also, other complaints are usually observed such as issues on the 2-3 shift and binding, but loss of reverse seems unlikely. However, again, we can check pressure of the reverse circuit when this happens and see if reverse pressure is low as well as check to see if you get a leak of fluid into the reverse circuit while experiencing the 3-4 shift problem. I would not focus on the piston at this point.

Brad


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

Thanks for your response. Mine's a late 2004/early 2005 model. Is this new enough to not be a concern with respect to the reverse piston?

Yes, I'd like to stop by and do the pressure check. When would it be convenient for you? Please email me at [email protected] . I travel a lot and work out of a home office, so my schedule can be very flexible.

Would you be able to get the nine solenoids for me or direct me to where I should get them locally?

Thanks,

Dave


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

Dave,

I sent you an email. In regards to the reverse piston, I myself have never seen a cracked piston, though I have replaced them because they were using the old style. The pressure test should solve whether or not it is the culprit, but judging on the complaints, a crack large enough to be the cause would show itself elsewhere.

Brad


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

FYI. Also, to those reading I have access to 09A solenoid kits through an account I have. They are new OEM not rebuilt for $315 plus whatever shipping will be. I know this is a bit cheaper than cobra transmission and I am unsure if theirs are new or rebuilt. Just food for thought. Good luck!

Brad


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

bjohns86 said:


> I know this is a bit cheaper than cobra transmission and I am unsure if theirs are new or rebuilt.
> 
> Brad


Mine were new OEM from cobratransmissions.com, made by mitsubishi in Japan. Exact duplicates of what I took out. I don't think anybody would rebuild a solenoid unless replacements were out of production.


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## gstamets (May 23, 2009)

i have the no-reverse with my 09A, but mine makes little sense. when it was warmer weather, it wouldn't reverse until the car was warmed up. now, at 20 degrees outside, it will sometimes reverse when very cold, and sometimes even when fully warmed up, but most of the time reverse doesn't take. 

the only other symptom i'm experiencing (i had some other posts where i mentioned shaking, but that turned out to be spark plugs) is rough downshifting sometimes - when coming to a stop or when stepping on the gas, especially after decelerating (such as when going around a turn and then accelerating). but this other symptom is important - what could cause both the lack of reverse *most* (but not all - and not clearly contingent on either cold or warm fluid temperature) of the time AS WELL AS frequent rough downshifts? 

valve body? solenoids? reverse piston? unfortunately, i don't have the money to do really anything with the car. trying to pressure volkswagen into paying for part of it, since it's absurd that a transmission should fail at 83,000 miles and these 09As have a history of problems (though not quite as bad as the 01Ms).


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## bjohns86 (Nov 7, 2011)

First off, quit trying to get VW to fix the problem becuase you are just spinning your wheels. Unless you are still under some kind of warranty you won't get anywhere. A no-reverse on these units seems to me quite common and some have found solution with solenoids and others with a VB, but a cracked piston is the common on the later models and you would likely see binding in forwards gears because of this leak. If it is so bad that you are getting no reverse than it isn't this piston. What are you willing/wanting to do in terms of diagnosis?

Brad


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## gstamets (May 23, 2009)

bjohns86 said:


> First off, quit trying to get VW to fix the problem becuase you are just spinning your wheels. Unless you are still under some kind of warranty you won't get anywhere. A no-reverse on these units seems to me quite common and some have found solution with solenoids and others with a VB, but a cracked piston is the common on the later models and you would likely see binding in forwards gears because of this leak. If it is so bad that you are getting no reverse than it isn't this piston. What are you willing/wanting to do in terms of diagnosis?
> 
> Brad


 i guess i'm pretty much at a brick wall now. i've got about $1,000 to throw at a repair, and that's it. money is tight and will be until i finish grad school half a decade or so from now. could try to borrow a little more from someone, but very uncomfortable doing that unless i'm certain the problem will be fixed. most definitely could not find $3,500 or so to replace/rebuild - which is why i'm interested in trying to apply pressure on VW to do something like a 'goodwill' assistance on the cost of repair (we first asked them to supply a rebuilt transmission and we'd pay labor - they, of course, politely declined). (rant: i'm not under warranty, but an auto transmission with no leaks should not fail at 83,000 miles. end of story. whether or not they assist - and i'm aware they nearly always blow customers off - i feel volkswagen should be held responsible [not legally, of course] for whatever defect is causing premature failure of the transmission in a car i paid $22k for.) 

would the rough downshifting likely rule out the reverse piston? that leaves solenoid replacement as the best-case, valve body replacement as the worst case, then? if it's the latter, is it silly to replace the valve body instead of the whole transmission? 

next time, most definitely going manual.


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## gstamets (May 23, 2009)

is it possible it's the transmission control module? apparently the TCM is located under the passenger floor carpet. a few years ago, i had major flooding with 3-4 inches of water sitting on the passenger side due to the sunroof drain issue that volkswagen subsequently issued a recall or something for. 

i'm trying, haha.....is this a plausible cause of the rough downshift and no-reverse-most-of-the-time problems i'm having now?


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

gstamets said:


> ... i had major flooding .....is this a plausible cause of the rough downshift and no-reverse-most-of-the-time problems i'm having now?


 Doubtful, usually that causes the tranny to go into limp mode


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## Charlie_M (Mar 23, 2011)

gstamets said:


> would the rough downshifting likely rule out the reverse piston? that leaves solenoid replacement as the best-case, valve body replacement as the worst case, then? if it's the latter, is it silly to replace the valve body instead of the whole transmission?


 Personally, I would do the solenoids. If you are not doing it yourself, print out the solenoid how-to and take it to your favorite independent VW mechanic (not the dealer), and ask for a quote. Get a set of solenoids for about $360 at lots of places, including cobratransmissions.com 

It's not that hard to do yourself either. The experience gained will serve you in good stead for the rest of your VW love/hate relationship in the future.


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## gstamets (May 23, 2009)

Charlie_M said:


> Personally, I would do the solenoids. If you are not doing it yourself, print out the solenoid how-to and take it to your favorite independent VW mechanic (not the dealer), and ask for a quote. Get a set of solenoids for about $360 at lots of places, including cobratransmissions.com
> 
> It's not that hard to do yourself either. The experience gained will serve you in good stead for the rest of your VW love/hate relationship in the future.


 thanks, i might give it a shot. appreciate the advice!


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## Balomo41 (Apr 2, 2009)

Did you get your VW tranny problem fixed? I did mine a few years ago with solenoids change and helped a lot. now is coming back.


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## kaotikblaze (Jul 25, 2012)

hi there , i am fixing my jetta, need to know the adjustment of the brake band that you found broke same problem on my vehiccle


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

*Found the problem.*

I found an absolutely great transmission repair place, 'Automatic Transmission and Driveline' located in Waite Park, MN. (by St Cloud, MN). The owners name is Roman. He found the problem to be one of the nine solenoids, and replaced for a total bill of less than $300.00. He was honest, very fair and had it done for me in less than a week. I highly recommend his business.


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## thechevyman (May 21, 2014)

*question*

Im having similar problems. Sorry to bring this up again I cant find it anywhere else. 
I have an 04 tdi with an automatic transmission. Delays going into reverse when warm. 
Can it be valve body? Or is most likely solenoid?


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## FireKing73 (Jan 11, 2012)

thechevyman said:


> Im having similar problems. Sorry to bring this up again I cant find it anywhere else.
> I have an 04 tdi with an automatic transmission. Delays going into reverse when warm.
> Can it be valve body? Or is most likely solenoid?


It is one of the nine solenoids, I can't remember which one it is. I had all of them replaced before I moved to Florida just to be safe. The car now has almost 300,000 miles on it and is running just fine.


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## CoolAirVw (Mar 8, 2007)

thechevyman said:


> Im having similar problems. Sorry to bring this up again I cant find it anywhere else.
> I have an 04 tdi with an automatic transmission. Delays going into reverse when warm.
> Can it be valve body? Or is most likely solenoid?


since your describing operation in the inverse of what a sticky solenoid normally does I would guess you have a internal problem that might require rebuilding. Probably would be best to get it checked near you to confirm.


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## Serdor (Aug 7, 2014)

*09A no reverse*

Hello Noykov, could you put please once again the pictures of your disassembled transmission. I have the same problem of no reverse. Thank you


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## memoryinuse (Jan 15, 2015)

*photos missing???*

how to view pictures, now not loadind


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## D-cappz (Feb 18, 2016)




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## D-cappz (Feb 18, 2016)

CoolAirVw said:


> Wont upshift cold is commonly caused by the n92 solenoid. See the following thread.
> 
> '02 1.8T Jetta not shifting gears from 1st, when cold
> 
> ...


If this is the solinoids used for each gear 

1. N88, N89, N92
1 tip. N89, N92
2. N88, N89
3. N89
4. N92
5. N88, N92
R. N88, N89, N92
And 57 the modulation valves solinoid valve N93 that regulates the main oil pressure. 

Where is N90 on this? Thanks. 

Did solinoids for no forward gear when cold, reverse was working, and got it all back together but no reverse now. Forward seems to be working good now.


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