# Transmission Fluid type



## dicksoje (Sep 1, 2010)

Hello all, 
I've been reading a few of the posts on transmission fluid flush helping with light load rpm fluctuations. My 04 Phaeton V8 also has this problem when cold in 4-5 gear. Car has 140K miles. I'm considering using the Valvoline 75000 mile + high mileage formula (red bottle) because I've had pretty good luck with it on a 96 01M transmission and in looking at the bottle it says it meets or exceeds a VW standard that isn't the one called out for the phaeton. 

Does anyone have any idea if: 

The VW number listed on the bottle is a superseded spec for the fluid used in the phaeton? 

Has anyone tried this fluid? Tried a different fluid? 

Know the properties of the spec fluid? full synthetic, blend, etc... 

Thanks much In advance. 

Joe


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*From what I have read*

ZF, the manufacturer of the transmission, has recommended Lifeguard6 for this transmission. This is a change in recommendation since the original build. As a result of this change, VW has also altered the recommended fluid for our transmissions. Their part number for the ATF _is_ Lifeguard6 as far as I can tell. Many people have documented the reversal of problems with their Phaeton transmission (and other cars built with the same transmission have similar stories) after following a flush and fill procedure using the newer fluid type. The spec of the fluid _does_ appear to matter. In addition to the change in fluid type, there is also a software upgrade for your TCM and ECM that can applied at the dealership (for a fee...) that is supposed to allow for better behavior of the case and engine communication and allow the case to "expect" a higher pressure that results from the change in fluid spec. Most people do both the fluid flush and the software change. 

The procedure for transmission fluid changes are in the FAQ sticky. I have recently sent my P to the indy to have the fluid changed to solve a similar problem. It should be coming back soon and I can tell you what I find. I will add that from my obsessive combing of the interwebs there are a number of people who put off spec fluid in _other_ similar transmissions and had to add "Dr Trannys Instant Shudder fix" additive to make it stop. Personally, I am OK paying 20 bucks a liter to put the right stuff in the first time, but should you want to cowboy it, when your car shudders violently you could throw some of that stuff in to see if it increases the viscosity and that is enough to chill the case out. 

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5909248-Engine-RPM-variance 

For the instant shudder fix there is a "case study" that somebody put up on the web that you might like to read.


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## wetsiderkg (Dec 28, 2012)

I am no expert, but after reading several hours of threads, shouldn't those upgrading the TCM and ECM use the "blue" fluid, ZF LifeGuard6+ Oil (ZF No. S671 090 281), G 055 162 A2 

Curious if anyone can locate it online? This is the best price I could locate: 

https://importecautoparts.com/parts/part_number/G 055 162 A2/3 

Never dealt with the company before though, has anyone else? 

My car is currently in the shop, so I wonder if the dealership would have a problem with me ordering the fluid on my own and having them use it? Anyone else try this before?


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

The blue fluid, according to the tech I spoke to at the largest VW dealer in the area, is a temporary thing only to fix a specific issue in the W12 transmission. He said you put in the blue fluid, run it for 500 miles, then flush with the normal fluid.


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

ZF themselves say this, which I still find confusing: 

*Lifeguard 6 fluid (yellow) is used in these:* 
-- 6HP19A generic transmissions 
-- 6HP26A61 Audi transmissions 
-- 6HP26A61 Bentley transmissions 
-- 6HP32A VW transmissions (V10) 

*Lifeguard 6 Plus fluid (blue) is used in these:* 
-- 6HP26A61 transmissions in W12 vehicles 

*Lifeguard 8 fluid (green) is used in these:* 
-- 6HP19A/X VW & Audi transmissions 
-- 6HP28AF Audi transmissions 


Michael posted the non-specific warning below from VW. 

Cheers, 
Chris


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## dicksoje (Sep 1, 2010)

So I did a bit more digging on the lifegaurd 6 and compared it to the valvoline. here is what I found. first for the Valvoline 

Test Typical Property 
Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt 6.11 
Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt 28.18 
Viscosity Index 173 
Specific Gravity @ 60°F 0.843 
Pour Point, °C, -51 
Brookfield Viscosity @ -40°C, cP 8400 
Flash Point, COC, °C 202 
ASTM Color 7 
Appearance Red 

now for the lifeguard 6 

9. PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES 
Appearance 
Form :liquid 
Colour :brown 
Safety data 
pH : not applicable 
Flash point :200 °C 
Method: ISO 2592 
Vapour pressure :< 0,001 hPa 
at 20 °C 
Solubility/qualitative ractically insoluble 
Partition coefficient (n-octanol/water) : 
not applicable 
Viscosity, kinematic : 28 mm2/s (this is the same unit as cst) 
at 40 °C 
Method: DIN 51562 

This tells me they are the same viscosity even though the lifeguard 6 has a crappier datasheet. I think I'm willing to assume they are both SAE 20 synthetic fluid from what I've researched. 

I also found the Phaeton listed in the Valvoline paperwork for the MaxLife ATF 
http://www.nordiques.com/pieces/images/cataloguepdf/applicationhuiletrans.pdf 

I think I'm probably going to go for it


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## snapdragon (Aug 8, 2006)

dicksoje said:


> So I did a bit more digging on the lifegaurd 6 and compared it to the valvoline. here is what I found. first for the Valvoline


 According to VAG, an important attribute of the Libeguard 6 is the friction coefficient characteristics required for the TCC regulator (lockup clutch is designed to slip while driving instead of just closed or open). Without these modifiers, it can slip too much, or grab and shudder or just make a moaning noise........ 

Oil and lubrication system 
￼46. 
To ensure TCC durability and a long service life, the new ATF G 055 005 A2; Shell ATF M-1375.4 was specially developed to suit the exacting requirements involved. 

ATF has to meet with the highest requirements in terms of gearshift quality and reliability and has a crucial influence on the coefficient of friction of a clutch/brake. 
In addition to lining quality and friction materials, the following factors govern the coefficient of friction: 
– Gear oil (grade, ageing, wear) – Gear oil temperature 
– Clutch temperature 
– Clutch slip 

General 
￼Optimisation of a wide range of details and technical concepts resulted in enhanced gearbox efficiency: 
– The fact that there are only five selector elements reduces the friction torque in the clutches with no power transmission. 
– A new, optimised gear oil with lower viscosity particularly at low gearbox temperatures reduces the friction loss. 
– Improved internally geared oil pump with smaller delivery volume and reduced leakage. 
– Optimisation of oil supply with reduced leakage in hydraulic control system. 
– Increase in gearing efficiency to greater than 99% through optimisation of gear trains. 
– Increase in permissible friction power of controlled torque converter clutch, thus extending the operating range (for more details, refer to Page 34 onwards). 
– The "stationary vehicle decoupling" function reduces engine output when the vehicle is stopped with a gear engaged by interrupting power transmission. In addition to reducing consumption, ride comfort is enhanced due to the fact that less braking force is required (for more details refer to Part 2 SSP 284, Page 30 onwards).


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*Summary of my reading of VW vortex threads (and assorted interwebs)*

My apologies. I stand corrected. The original stuff is the Lifeguard6, honey colored, G055005. 
The reflash-recommended update stuff is Lifeguard8, green colored, G060162. 

As penance for my (first) mistake I gathered as many links and annotated them as I sorted myself out regarding the ATF in the 6HP19A gearbox in the 4.2L V8 Phaeton. 

Here goes: 
Lifeguard6 is the original yellow Audi/VW Oil No. G 055005 A1/A2/A6 
Lifeguard6+ (intended for W12 6 speed Audi) Audi/VW Oil No. G 055162 A1/A2/A6 
Lifeguard8 is the new stuff that requires the reflash Audi/VW Oil No. G 060162 A1/A2/A6 

Positive results are reported by some Phaeton owners with each of the above fluids. I find this interesting. Positive results are reported with and without ECM TCM reflashing. Also interesting. Negative results are also reported. 

According to ZF, the 6HP19 is a standard drive and the 6HP19A is the AWD. So we would have a 6HP19A transmission, that should clarify (somewhat) the current ZF recommendations for the transmission in the 2003-2006 4.2L V8 Phaetons. I have not crawled around underneath to read the label on my particular car. 
Oodles of tech information (and ordering of fluid at the lowest posted prices I have seen) at 
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=page&page_id=tech_info 

Tomas, aka "Tomasty", confirms the 6HP19A designation with ZF here: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=75385938 

Summary of other's results: 
Tomas gets LG8 equivalent added, bottle and invoice reads G060162A2: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ton-Service-Photos-(48-Pictures)-(ATF-Coolant) 

Stephano, "Motorista", has ATF updated by Larry, aka "VWDealerTech", at VW service and TCM ECM reflash. Larry says fluid is blue and corresponds to G055162A which is LG6+ (see linked post and below for larry's replies). Motorista gives a 6k miles and 48k later updates that everything still cool a bit later in the thread. It is my understanding that this is the flush, refill and flash procedure outlined by vw and referenced via tech tip tt-07-70. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=45575342 
two years and 51k miles later still happy: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=63340178 

For Juoko, aka "Jkuisma" problems simply flushing and refilling with the _original_ (aka ZF6 yellow G055005) oil is sufficient: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=69118075 

another satisfied fluid flusher 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=70731214 

Andy, aka "asummers" (the guitarist?), put in the green stuff LG8 aka G060 162 A2, and got great results without the reflash 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=73349136 

"Kenny G" (the musicians continue), refilled his case to positive effect here: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=79591578 
and was still happy at the end of 2012 here 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=80128763 

"Boreal" is an unsatisfied rebuilt gearbox owner: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=78449604 
not clear if this resolved things 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=77538917 

"Conmoto" is happy and a couple of lines lower indicates it was G060162A2 (aka Lifeguard8, the greenstuff) AND that no software update was done. 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=78520107 

Jxander indicating after two years that a flush and refill with lifeguard6+ (aka G055162, the blue stuff) had worked out great: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=72303458 

Somewhat confusing posts from "TortoiseandHare" in a long thread indicating at 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=74558332 
That Lifeguard6+ was added post ECM TCM flash. Something more seems to be wrong, at least I was not able to discern that this was ultimately resolved. 

Much discussion of fluids and changes in the VW audi technical forum over here: 
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-VW-Lifetime-auto-transmission-fluid-(baloney!!!) 


I wonder if it might be useful to collect success or time to failure updates from those that have changed their ATF. Might be nice to know: 
What all have you done (number of flushes, fluid type, flash or not, filter changes, other component changes) 
How many miles and or years ago 
How well did this fix the problem (completely, partial with description, did not resulting in...). 

Guessing from the number of posts on the topic and the two active ones in the top 20 (with multiple interested parties) that many used higher mileage Phaetons are entering the market and new owners will frequently post this kind of question. Putting something like this in the new owner sticky might be a good idea. 

Thoughts? 

-Brian


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## dicksoje (Sep 1, 2010)

*well sonova diddly*

Thanks for all the work pgoober! I would also agree that this would be a good thing for the new Phaeton owners sticky. 

I'm sure I'm drawing the same conclusion that most of the people that ask this question draw... It's just not worth the risk for the $100-$200 savings in fluid. After all if I was trying to save money I'd be driving something classless with a 4 cylinder...

Has anyone bought this kit?
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=product&id=187&parent=61


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

dicksoje said:


> Thanks for all the work pgoober!


+1. I bookmarked the post.


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## Dangerrous (Sep 14, 2014)

*Life guard 6 Automatic transmission fluid*

I'm looking to do an interim fluid change on my 6 speed transmission (4 litre) and I've been looking around ebay at zf lifeguard 6, when I came across this stuff



http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mannol-Li...936?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43d3a4b620

This meets all the requirements of VW and ZF

Meets the requirements / specifications / products:
BMW 83220142516 (1375.4)/83220144137
FORD Mercon SP
HYUNDAI 040000C90SG
JAGUAR C2C 8432
LAND ROVER TYK500050
VW G 055005 A1/A2/A6

ZF S671 090 252/253/255

PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Form: Liquid
Colour : yellow-brownish
Odour: Oil. Faint
Density at 150 C 0,840
Solubility in water Negligible
Pour point, - 45 °C
Flash point open cup (ASTM D-92) 214 °C
Viscosity at 100 °C 6.07 mm2/s (cSt)

*Price- £4.50/ltr when bought in 20ltr quantity
*
Anyone had any dealings with this oil? I would assume there's enough of the zf 6 speed boxes around for independent oil manufacturers to tap into the market
Darren


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## steveskinr (Oct 31, 2007)

In consultation with ZF and my local VW dealer I did the following. 

I had my shop drop the pan and put in VW's equivalent of Lifeguard 8 in two of my V8s. 
No problems before or after.

The third is different. It had a hunting tranny. I complied with the VW fix which was a flash/flush/fill.
It was expensive but it fixed it. I'm thinking of going with the VW equivalent of Lifeguard 6 or 8 and drop the pan next time. 
I don't know what to do on that car. Introduce a third fluid that isn't designed for the flash, or stick with the 6. 
I'll call ZF. I'm inclined to stay with 6 on that car. 

I'm trying for another decade or two on all of them.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

I'm going to add myself to Goober's list of unsatisfied re-manufactured transmission owners. 2 years & 15k after they installed it, I'm getting a hard downshift from 4th to 3rd. I reported the problem right after they installed it and they told me it would improve with time. It didn't, it got worse, but now it's my problem. The helpline wouldn't do anything because of the age/mileage of the vehicle, which doesn't make much sense since the transmission was only relatively recently installed. The ZF technical line have diagnosed a problem with either the solenoid for that gear, or an internal shaft bushing. I'll report back if & when I resolve it, but I have a feeling the resolution may well be a Hyundai Equus.


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## s2kvondeutschland (Mar 19, 2011)

I have long suspected that Ford Mercon SP was compatible with ZF boxes requiring Lifeguard 6. 

The same transmission is in the Ford Explorer and E90 BMW 3 series, yet one fluid from Ford is $7/l and the other from BMW is $19/l?

Makes you wonder... 

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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