# TPMS Troubleshooting and Problem Solving Difficulties



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High!*

My Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) started reporting at start-up that there was a system fault back in October and doesn't work at all. The extended warranty company said that they wouldn't consider replacing the control module until the sensors are replaced. When the extended warranty company said that they wouldn't cover the control module (technician reports that the module appears to have a short - power in, no power out) until my tire pressure sensors were replaced so that it could be proved that the module doesn't work, I called the Phaeton/Touraeg Cutomer Service Line to see if VW Corporate would do the right thing and replace a control module that failed after only 40K miles. After I raised the matter to their management level at the Customer Service Line, they simply said that I was out of warranty and that they couldn't cover anything. I understand that it can be argued that the tire pressure sensors are wear and tear items since they are battery operated, but it doesn't seem like they should fail 5 years after the car was built. I have a Lexus that was built 8 years ago and the tire pressure sensors haven't given me any problem. I realize that you can't compare directly, but it just doesn't seem right, especially when the sensors report that they have at least 20 months of battery life left. (The technician is saying that the sensors are actually considered failed at some point under 36 months!) So much for what the car's system reports for remaining battery life. 

In addition, the extended warranty company (third party purchased at VW dealership) said that they wouldn't cover the sensors (on Phaetons or Touraegs), something that they would normally do on any other car, because VW has a problem with them that they need to fix. I'm hearing that there is a wide spread problem and I know that the part numbers for the control module and tire pressure sensors have changed, suggesting that faulty hardware has been improved. I feel that VW Corporate needs to do the right thing and replace both the sensors and the control module like they have done for other owners. I had a $2,000 bill for 40K service and replacement of wear and tear items, to have to pay an additional $2,000 to get the TPMS replaced at 40K miles is absurd. Who would expect to pay a $4,000 repair bill at 40K miles???
I plan to do online research and determine if other folks have had VW Corporate agree to replace sensors and control module after the car reported a system fault in the TPMS.
If someone on this site has had sensor or module failures that VW has replaced out of warranty, please add to this thread to help me out.
I would appreciate any other advice on this topic. 
Thanks in advance.
Robert


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## mhoepfin (Dec 20, 2007)

Who is your warranty with?


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (mhoepfin)*

Fidelity-
They were supposedly covering both sensors and controllers until there were too many Phaetons and Touraegs with TPMS problems.


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## cjcalvert (Mar 8, 2007)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

I feel your pain. I, too, have an extended warranty through VW (Fidelity), and I have had multiple problems with the TPMS. My service rep told me that the sensors need to be replaced - all five of them - at a cost of about $1500 just to see if the controller is bad. They said the warranty company would not cover the sensors because they contain batteries, and the warranty does not cover batteries. If the batteries could be replaced, I could understand their stance. But the batteries are not replaceable - the entire sensor is rendered useless when the battery goes.
I've been told the batteries seldom last as long as they are supposedly designed. 
I've given up on the whole TPMS. The system is completely useless and "cries wolf" all the time. I think it's far more dangerous to try to rely on it with all of it's faults than it's worth. I check my tires the old-fashioned way - a good tire pressure gauge!
I've ordered a VAG COM interface from Ross-Tech, and I plan on disabling it for good.


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## gwatts (Mar 8, 2006)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (cjcalvert)*

Another option is aftermarket sensors from tirerack or similar. I bought these a while back and that certainly didn't run me $1,500.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2917545


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (gwatts)*

I see that the subtotal on all the parts for 5 tires would be $470 where the wholesale price from someone else for OEM parts would be $640.35, so that would be a good price.
Once they were on your car the TPMS recognized them without any extra labor?
This link might work for the sensors tire rack is selling:
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels...Qty=5
Thanks.
Robert


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## my04phaeton (Jan 9, 2009)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

hey i will sell you mine new tpms control unit. not needed any more. 3d0 907 273 g. i think you have to pay attention to your original mhz readings. this one reads 433.92 where my old good one reads 388 range. price at dealer is 711.03 will sacrafice 604.00 new and good. james europeanautomotives.com


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

I would figure that it would be their responsibility to verify where the issue lies. The date codes for the sending units can be read and are supposed to be good for I think 8 years (please correct me if I'm wrong). So if all our NA cars not more that 5-6 years, wouldn't that be classified as the part prematurely failing and thus a manufacturing defect? The other simple thing to do is for a fellow member to offer swap the control units and see if that resolves the issue, potentially proving that the senders are good and the control unit is at fault.


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## heisenberg2000 (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

At the end of last year, after having problems with TPMS ( flat tire warnings and total system failure) I bought a set of modules and valvestems from tire rack. My local tireplace installed them and i have not had a problem since.
However i made one mistake, by ordering only 4 sets, so i ended up reusing the sensor with the longest batterie life left.
Gernot


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## heisenberg2000 (Mar 26, 2008)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

At the end of last year, after having problems with TPMS ( flat tire warnings and total system failure) I bought a set of modules and valvestems from tire rack. My local tireplace installed them and i have not had a problem since.
However i made one mistake, by ordering only 4 sets, so i ended up reusing the sensor with the longest batterie life left.








Gernot


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## Stinky999 (Sep 14, 2006)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Robert,
I just went through the whole TPMS issue myself. Fortunately, my warranty covered replacing the controller and all the sensors, about $2500. I have a GMAC warranty administered by Universal Warranty. Ironically, when I purchased this warranty, it was cheaper than the VW branded warranty. Go figure!
Roger


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (Stinky999)*

Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm still scouring the internet to see if VW has agreed to replace the sensors and/or controller for anyone out there. I saw in another post where someone was asking how long the sensors are supposed to last. It seems like they are defective parts to me if they give battery life in months and dealerships are calling them failed somewhere below 36 months.
Michael may need to group all these various TPMS topics somehow, especially as I expect more people to start reporting problems with failing sensors and possibly failing control modules. But here's another related thread:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3705670

Robert


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## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Question, If VAG-Com reports that there is a reasonable amount of battery life in in the sending units, isn't that enough to either warranty a defective sensor/controller?


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (dlouie)*

To declare it a defective controller, the warranty company says the sensors have to be replaced first to verify the controller doesn't work. Supposedly, Fidelity used to cover tire sensor claims until there were too many Phaeton/Touareg claims. They decided to change there policy on covering them, using the batteries as an excuse. The dealership listing it as a failed sensor isn't helping at all. I would like to see the faulty module replaced under warranty first if I have to pay for tire sensors. If I pay for sensors and they somehow talk their way out of not paying for a new module my money would be wasted!
Robert


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Link to "How to Disable TPMS"*

Just in case anyone is interested, here are instructions to disable your TPMS
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4211853
This has worked well on my 2005. We will try it on a 2004 very soon.
Also:
1. Toureg and Phaeton sensors are not interchangeable. There was one report where the Phaeton sensor in the box from the warehouse, and subsequently installed on the Phaeton, was determined to be a Toureg sensor. This was not obvious.
2. In addition to side to side pressures being the same, you want the front and rear tire pressures to be no more than about 5-7 PSI different, otherwise the TPMS will indicate an error.
3. Somewhere in the FAQs there is a very good VW TPMS troubleshooting guide.
Jim


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (rscharf)*

Can you say class action lawsuit. If they have decided not to cover them on the Phaeton and it was covered on other cars and the contract (which I have not read) says it a covered items they have some legal issues. 
Did the Rep for Fidelity really tell you they have excluded the Phaetons?


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## Kcmover (Jul 20, 2005)

*Re: (rscharf)*

Did they send out a notice to all policy holders? I didn't get one and they have set themself up for a class action by not doing so. 

_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_To declare it a defective controller, the warranty company says the sensors have to be replaced first to verify the controller doesn't work. Supposedly, Fidelity used to cover tire sensor claims until there were too many Phaeton/Touareg claims. They decided to change there policy on covering them, using the batteries as an excuse. The dealership listing it as a failed sensor isn't helping at all. I would like to see the faulty module replaced under warranty first if I have to pay for tire sensors. If I pay for sensors and they somehow talk their way out of not paying for a new module my money would be wasted!
Robert


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## samphoebe (Mar 3, 2004)

*Re: (Kcmover)*

A while back I too had same problems and Fidelity replaced control module but upon restarting the car, the tpms problems persisted so the dealer said I should (at my expense) replace all tire sensors at a cost of some $1200 or so I believe. Well I've unplugged the module and had them do whatever to make the error messages stop and rendering the tpms inert. Going it the old fashioned route of manually checking tire pressures. Other than the tpms I can say that this car is one I've been proud to own and hopefully will for several more years.
I'll too sell my tpms module that is brand new for a mere $400. I'd probably give it away but I needed some restitution for my pain and suffering.


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## gwatts (Mar 8, 2006)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Yep, my car recognized them w/o issue. OTOH, I just had to have my module replaced. I am under the CPO coverage now and the dealer replaced the TPMS module w/o question and w/o requiring the replacement of sensors first.


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: (Kcmover)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Kcmover* »_Can you say class action lawsuit. If they have decided not to cover them on the Phaeton and it was covered on other cars and the contract (which I have not read) says it a covered items they have some legal issues. 
Did the Rep for Fidelity really tell you they have excluded the Phaetons?


The dealership told me that Fidelity won't cover the tire pressure sensors on the Phaetons and Touaregs since they have been having too many claims. And the dealership added that Fidelity will replace tire pressure sensors on any other cars. In my case, with a suspected bad TPMS control module, Fidelity won't replace it until it is proven that it is failed by replacing the tire pressure sensors first. When I called Fidelity to verify my contract was in place (a different long story) I mentioned that the dealership would be calling on a TPMS failure, the Fidelity customer service rep. quickly said that if it's the pressure sensors they wouldn't cover them. If everything I've heard from the dealership is true, Fidelity, as a third party insurer picked by VW, isn't honoring it's contract (**I'm not sure about the wording of the contract myself as a platinum contract holder), and VW isn't supporting customers who no longer have their original warranty. If the part numbers on TPMS control modules and tire sensors have changed over the years, it sounds like to me that VW has a known problem with them.
**More on the contract wording. On the brochure I received with my contract, under the platinum warranty it says it won't cover 'electronic transmitting devices' other than those listed under the gold, gold plus, and silver warranties. I don't know if this excludes the tire sensors, I only know that the dealership is saying that Fidelity is covering tire sensors on other cars. 
*If there's someone more knowledgeable than me that could explain the contract coverage I would appreciate it.*
Besides working this issue for myself, I'd like everyone to know that when your sensors go out you'll have a bill from the dealership for at least $1200 to replace 5 sensors and 5 valve stems ($864) with 4 hours labor (4 x $96) at my dealership. If your control module goes out too, that's an additional $800 to replace the $600 module and 2 hours of labor. Again, I feel that VW should be covering this for me since I am only at 40K miles!
At wholesale price you can get the sensors and stems for $640.35 and tire rack would be $470. If the tire rack sensors are installed at a tire shop, I guess you could replace the sensors for around $600 total instead of the $1200 VW would charge. I'm probably excluding any shipping and tax in those calculations.
Robert


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## GS340 (Oct 26, 2007)

*Re: (rscharf)*

If you replace one or more sensors do you have to use the VW software to program the new sensor to the car or is this done through the learning function?


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Hello All:
I've quite deliberately stayed out of this discussion to this point, for reasons I will explain in a minute, but Robert (the original poster) has asked me if I would contribute my thoughts, so, here they are...
The TPMS is a relatively simple system, but it is difficult to diagnose and troubleshoot when it develops problems. By this I mean the fault codes that it returns are not 'fully transparent' - a fault that exists early in the logic and measurement process will mask other faults that exist further down the logic and measurement line, and the fault codes themselves (both the ones displayed to the driver, and the ones displayed to the technician when using a diagnostic scan tool) are not always crystal-clear.
Troubleshooting TPMS is a bit like troubleshooting a device driver problem using DOS 3.1 - if you know exactly what you are doing, and if you have a fairly good idea (due to prior experience) where the problem is before you begin, you can fix the problem quickly the first or second time through. But, if you don't know where the problem is (as a result of little or no prior experience), or if you make one tiny little error (syntactical or logical) during the troubleshooting process, not only will you not get anywhere, you won't get any feedback from the system that will help you out either.
The bottom line of all this is that it requires considerable skill and experience to identify and correct problems with this system. This has been well proven - as far back as 4 years ago, we had a fairly active discussion going on about TPMS troubleshooting, and eventually, all of us here on the forum worked out a troubleshooting protocol that enabled us, as owners, to rectify 99% of the problems we encountered. The details of that can be found on this thread: Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design, Function, Operation, and Troubleshooting.
From reading all the discussion here, I can't tell whether Robert's ongoing problems are caused by a fault within one of the components (the vehicle, the controller, or one of the sensors), or whether the problems - or more precisely, the failure to solve the problems - are caused by the technician not doing the right things, or not having the required high level of skill and experience necessary to identify and solve the problem.
Because of that, I can't really second-guess the response of VW of America or the response of the warranty company. It appears reasonable to me that VW of America has said "Hey, it's out of the original OEM warranty, therefore, we decline to fund the repair." It's not as if this is a killer problem that has rendered the vehicle inoperable, nor is it something that raises a huge expense, like a transmission replacement.
I'm not aware of any widespread problem with the sensors themselves. I have three sets of wheels for my car (winter only, summer only, and a spare set), this totals 12 sensors, all of my wheels and sensors were manufactured in 2003, and they all work. Is my TPMS totally trouble-free? No, it gets cranky - not unlike a 5 year old - from time to time. Is the cause of the problem the sensors? No, I am quite confident it is not, because I have always been able to solve the problem without touching the sensors. So, I can't blame the extended warranty company for declining to "shotgun" the problem by replacing all 5 sensors - an action that would probably cost about $1K in parts and $250 in labour.
I don't attach any credibility to comments I have read that go along the lines of _"...sensors are actually considered failed at some point under 36 months."_ I think that is nuts. If anything, these type of remote sensors that have a life-limit hard-coded into them tend to last much longer than their claimed life, simply because the manufacturer of the sensor will always be conservative in their estimation of sensor life. The ones used in aircraft wheels typically have a 36 month claimed life, and I have seen lots of them that work just fine 9 years post manufacture. Does this mean an individual sensor can never fail prematurely? No. Does it mean that we should believe a technician's unsubstantiated claim that many sensors fail prematurely - especially if that technician is the same one that can't solve a TPMS problem in the first place? No.
Robert, I can't diagnose this problem via an internet forum over a long distance. To say anything intelligent, I would have to look at the car, and look at all the systems in the car. Perhaps there are voltage problems - perhaps the connector is loose - who knows? In the absence of any problems outside of the TPMS controller and the 5 sensors themselves, I would probably start by looking at the coding of the TPMS controller. There is a change in the coding specification depending on the software version (the part number) of the controller - is your technician aware of that? If he or she is certain that there are no outside influences (e.g. voltage problems) and certain that the controller is properly coded, I would probably replace the controller prior to replacing the sensors... but I could only make this decision after evaluating the fault codes that the controller returns.
Bottom Line: It appears to me that the difficulty resolving this problem lies with the technician who is servicing the vehicle. 
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (rscharf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_...If your control module goes out too, that's an additional $800 to replace the $600 module and 2 hours of labor.

Robert, something is very wrong here. The module costs, I think, about $500 (here in Canada), and it takes no more than *30 seconds* to replace it. You can replace a TPMS controller faster than you can replace a licence plate light bulb.
The controller is located underneath the relay panel, above the left battery. You just remove the door to the battery compartment, slide the controller out, unplug it, and replace it. No tools are needed.
The controller then has to be coded, a process that may take as long as 10 minutes if the technician does not have the diagnostic scan tool hooked up to the car, and as little as 3 minutes if the diagnostic scan tool is already hooked up to the car.
The photo below illustrates the TPMS controller.
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

As you can see, it is 'plug and play'.


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Lastly, it is extraordinarily easy to check whether or not the sensors in each individual wheel are working or not. You just hook up your diagnostic scan tool to the vehicle, and read the measured value blocks from each sensor.
Each of the five sensors will return 10 fields of information, as shown in the photo below. If the sensor returns the information for display on the diagnostic scan tool, then that is_ prima facie _proof that the sensor is working correctly (assuming, of course, that the data returned makes sense - that the sensor does not report that the tire pressure is 1,500 lbs PSI and the tire temperature is equal to that of the surface of the sun).
Michael


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Here are some translations from the original German (the language that the car speaks) to English. When I wrote the coding file for the VAG-COM that is used for Phaeton TPMS diagnosis, I provided an English language guide above the MVB displays. Volkswagen's diagnostic scan tool (the one that the technicians use) displays the results in English. 
However, to assist everyone here in comprehending what you are seeing in the picture above:
*bar* = a unit of pressure measurement that is used everywhere else in the world outside of the United States. One bar is equal to about 14 PSI.
*°C* = A unit of temperature measurement that is used everywhere else in the world outside of the United States. 
*Rad* = noun for wheel, in the German language.
*v.l.* = abbreviation for 'vorn links', which means front left. Other abbreviations include 'h' for hinten (rear), and 'r' for richt (right).
*h. UB i.O.* = abbreviation for 'hub Übersicht in ordnung, which means that the oversight (monitoring) of that particular hub (axle) is working OK. i.o. is the German language equivalent of 'OK'.
Michael


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_ 
However, to assist everyone here in comprehending what you are seeing in the picture above:
*h. UB i.O.* = abbreviation for 'hub Übersicht in ordnung, which means that the oversight (monitoring) of that particular hub (axle) is working OK. i.o. is the German language equivalent of 'OK'.
Michael


Michael-
Thanks for your inclusive reply as always. I first want to cover a question to help me in diagnosing my car, then I'd like to touch on some of your other comments.
I did try to diagnose my problem via Vagcom before taking the car in for service. Using a previous post, I saw that 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK' and 4 out of 5 of my sensors reported this. Only the front left reported that monitoring was o.k. *When monitoring not OK is reported, does that mean that there is a problem with the sensor or the controller?* If I remember correctly, all the other data reported from each sensor seemed reasonable. 
Just to state the history on this problem. It started back in September when one sensor would state that the front right tire was flat, but it was a very intermittent report, which made me think a sensor was failing. I had the tires rotated during this time and that intermittent failure moved with the tire to the rear right tire. Within a month or 2, at startup the car would report a 'TPMS System Fault' and that behavior has been consistent ever since.
To comment on some of your other points:
I agree that failing the sensor because it is under 36 months of battery life is crazy, but I thought that this is where I have to trust what a dealership is saying since I have no experience in the area other than with my own car. By the way, I think all my batteries reported at least 20 months left. 
I understand how simple it sounds to replace the TPMS control module. It definitely sounds like I could even feel confident in replacing it physically, and it sounds like with Vagcom I could even handle the re-coding. I assume the 2 hours for the job is something that VW sets as the required time needed to do the job.
I'm hoping that the tech is well qualified and experienced enough to do the job since I now have to drive 60 miles to go to the dealership he moved to. I'm trying to avoid dealerships where I have a pretty good idea that they don't have Phaeton trained techs.
I probably haven't responded to everything, but those cover the main thoughts to what you wrote. Your response to my bolded question above should help me with the diagnosing tree.
I guess the most frustrating part of this issue is that the warranty company says that they won't replace the control module until all the sensors are replaced. Granted, I don't know exactly how the conversation went between the dealership and the warranty company. One problem may be that the dealership declared all the sensors failed due to the battery life. The tech did say that when he put power to the module he didn't get anything out of it, making it quite clear that the control module was failed. I think I might give the warranty company a call to see if I can get a better understanding of their repair history with Phaetons compared with my situation.
Thanks Michael.
From the land without Celsius and bar-
Robert


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_...I saw that 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK' and 4 out of 5 of my sensors reported this. Only the front left reported that monitoring was o.k. When monitoring not OK is reported, does that mean that there is a problem with the sensor or the controller? If I remember correctly, all the other data reported from each sensor seemed reasonable. 
...I had the tires rotated during this time and that intermittent failure moved with the tire to the rear right tire.  Within a month or 2, at startup the car would report a 'TPMS System Fault' and that behavior has been consistent ever since.

Hi Robert:
Given the information that you have presented above, I would approach the troubleshooting and diagnosis process in this manner:
*1)* You state in your first (quoted) paragraph that 4 of the 5 wheels reported that the monitoring function was not working properly. My initial reaction would be to discount the likelihood that 4 sensors have failed. The system is comprised of 5 sensors, 4 antennas, and one controller. The probability of 4 our of 5 sensors failing at the same time is low. This hypothesis is based more on generic principles of troubleshooting concepts than any intimate knowledge of Phaeton TPMS.
*2)* You state in your second (quoted) paragraph that an intermittent problem with the front right tire moved to the rear right position when you rotated the tires. My initial reaction to that finding is that there is a very high probability of a malfunction with that particular sensor, and on the basis of that single finding, I would proceed to replace that one sensor.
*3)* Given that you have a diagnostic scan tool, after replacing that one sensor, I would then drive the car to a local air pump, inflate all five tires to exactly the pressures specified on the driver door sticker, then drive the car home and let it sit outside overnight.
*4)* I would then double-check that the coding of the TPMS controller is appropriate for your vehicle (a NAR Phaeton, you don't state if it is a V8 or W12, the coding is different for the two engines), and most especially, I would check to make sure that the coding is appropriate for the software version of the TPMS controller. There is a change in the coding scheme depending on the software version - this is documented elsewhere in the forum - and the former coding scheme will not work with later software versions and vice-versa.
*5)* The next morning, I would go out to the car with the diagnostic scan tool, clear any faults in the TPMS controller, enter zeros in adaptation field 0 and save them (to reset the controller), then put the system into learning mode and take it for about a 6 to 10 mile drive on a highway. If the system is going to work, it will successfully complete the learning cycle.
At this point in time, I would be tempted to stop going to the VW dealership to get this problem solved. That doesn't imply that there is anything wrong with the VW dealership, however, they have put a considerable amount of effort into the problem (and a considerable amount of your money into the problem) and they haven't solved it. You can't have two cooks in the kitchen at the same time, so, take over the troubleshooting process yourself for a while.
So far as replacing the problem sensor is concerned, you can order a new sensor (including the valve stem) from your VW dealer, or from any of the reputable internet sources (basically, other VW dealers who sell by internet) and have it installed by a local tire shop. TPMS has now been around long enough that I would have no concerns asking any reputable tire shop to replace a sensor - they have probably seen thousands by now.
Michael
*FWIW:* The TPMS in my 2004 W12 began generating a "Tire Pressure System Fault" message in the instrument cluster about 10 days ago. I have been too busy lately to do anything about it, but last night, after writing my replies to your post, I figured I might as well take a kick at clearing the problem. I went out to my car (which was stone cold, having sat in the driveway for 24 hours), checked the tire pressures with a gauge - they were all OK - then opened controller 65 with the diagnostic scan tool, cleared the fault code, reset the controller by way of entering zeros in adaptation channel 0 and saving them, then put the system into learning mode and went for a 8 mile drive down the highway. The system successfully completed the learning mode and is now working again.
Why did it generate the fault in the first place? I have no idea. Just being cranky, I guess. It does this about once a year.
The photo below shows where to find the software version on the controller itself. The software version will also be reported on the diagnostic scan tool.


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## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (PanEuropean)*

Michael-
OK, I'm going to give your suggested troubleshooting process a try when I get the chance. (I have to verify with the dealership that he did rotate the tires, so that bad sensor is back on the front tire, or I may just have to buy 2 sensors to make sure they're both good on the passenger side)
I've printed out the VAG-COM label file 3D0-907-273.lbl listed in the following post that I used before to look at the sensor data:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1

If I get any info from VAG-COM about the sensors, does that mean that the control module IS working? *In other words, can you only get feedback from the sensors if the control module is working?* If so, it would seem the tech's diagnosis of the failed module is wrong.
Another Question: *How did you know that you needed to replace the control module in your car?* The tech said that my control module wasn't giving any fault codes.
Bear in mind that my VAG-COM experience is very limited. *When you talk about things like entering zeros in the adaptation field (what you say in your step 5), willl that be obvious to me? Where's the best place to get comprehensive directions for using VAG-COM?* 
Thanks for all your time and effort in helping me.
Robert


_Modified by rscharf at 5:00 PM 2-2-2009_


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## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Robert -
All of us should have one of these VAGCOM gizmos, as they are terrific, or maybe even essential, tools in maintaining our Phaetons. 
There are VAGCOM instructions in the FAQs. See "Controller Area Network (CAN) data buses in the Phaeton" (http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1661609). Somewhere in that post, or another on the same subject, Michael explains adaptation. 
A few tips:
1. There is a lot of information on using the VAGCOM tool on a Phaeton here http://wiki.ross-tech.com/inde...3D%29. 
2. The VCDS/VAGCOM interfaces are pretty well-designed. As you mouse over some of the fields, you'll see pop-ups that help you with your choices.
3. The fields and controllers where we, as hobbyists, can most likely cause serious damage are probably locked out (you need to have the proper security codes). This is no excuse to run amok with our VAGCOMS, of course.
4. One of the wizards advised me to always initiate a session with an auto-scan of the entire network, and then save that file. That way, at least I know where I started from. 
You may want to start with disabling the chimes. You most likely will get comfortable with making changes to the controller coding very quickly.
Jim


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_If I get any info from VAG-COM about the sensors, does that mean that the control module IS working? In other words, can you only get feedback from the sensors if the control module is working? 

If you are getting reasonable information back from the sensors when you use the diagnostic scan tool, this strongly suggests that the controller is working OK. It doesn't guarantee it, but it strongly suggests it.

_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_How did you know that you needed to replace the control module in your car?

Because the TPMS controller returned the message "Defective Controller". Both the tech and I thought that was pretty definitive. So did VW, when the OEM warranty claim was processed.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*


_Quote, originally posted by *rscharf* »_I've printed out the VAG-COM label file 3D0-907-273.lbl listed in the following post that I used before to look at the sensor data:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...age=1

OK, but be aware that there is a newer label file for use with controllers that end with the part number suffix D or higher. If you look in your computer, (root level / Ross Tech / VCDS / Labels), you will find both a 3D0-907-273.lbl and a 3D0-907-273-D.lbl. VAG-COM will automatically use the D suffix label file if it finds a D suffix controller installed.
The coding is different for D suffix controllers. There is a VW tech note around somewhere that explains this - I used that tech note when I wrote the 3D0-907-273-D.lbl. Anyway, here is the complete text of the label file for D version controllers:
;Remark - This one is post 504.0 - Michael , April 4 2005
;
; VAG-COM label file 3D0-907-273-D.lbl
;
; VW Phaeton (3D) - beginning model year 2005, also replacement part for earlier model years
; VW Bentley Continental GT - up to and including model year 2005 (not tested with this vehicle)
;
; Component: Tire Pressure Monitoring -J502- (address #65)
;
; p/n: 3D0 907 273 D Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0025 Coding: 0411204 (2005 NAR Phaeton) 
; 3D0 907 273 D Component: Reifendruckueberw. 0025 Coding: 0280340 (Bentley Continental GT NAR) - not tested on this vehicle
;
; NB: The only known difference between D suffix and A, B, C or no suffix is that D coding is different.
;
; includes measured value blocks, coding, and adaptation. Also user guidance (remarks) embedded in the file.
;
; by Sebastian Stange ([email protected])
; modified by Michael Moore ([email protected])
;
; last modified: 11/05/2004 (Sebastian)
; last modified: 30/August/2005 (Michael) 'PanEuropean' on the VW Vortex forum.
; - minor editorial changes
; - Bentley PNs, note added
; last modified: 10/December/2005 (Michael) 
; - new file created for D suffix controllers due to different coding.
; - the changeover appears to be with software version 25. 24 and under use the old coding scheme (3D0-907-273.lbl).
; - software version 25 and higher use the new coding scheme (this labelfile).
;
;
; ready for VAG-COM 402.3 and above
;
;
;---------------------------------------------------
;
; measured value block information
;
;---------------------------------------------------
;
;NOTES CONCERNING TPMS ADAPTATION:
;Measure Value Blocks 3, 6, 9, 12 and 15 are stored only when the system is relearned. 
;Therefore this information is not always an accurate representation of current wheel location and status.
;In addition, one faulty wheel sensor has the potential to create faults at multiple wheel locations.
;
;How to identify current tire pressure monitoring sensor locations:
; – Vehicle must be parked 4 meters (12 feet) AWAY from other vehicles with same or similar tire pressure monitoring system.
;If vehicles with same or similar systems (e.g. other Phaetons or Touaregs) are parked too close to one another there is a 
;high probability of the systems interfering with each other.
;
;Battery life shown in MVB 2,5,8 and 11 Field 2 is only usable if the system has learned all wheel
;locations. If this is the case it can be determined in MVB 19, where 00025 is the standard value for
;a system that is active and set. If the system is not active (showing any other number in MVB 19), it
;will still show the last values that were stored the last time it was operating correctly. During the
;learning drive MVB 19 will start with 00265 and will add numbers to this field, until it reaches a
;maximum of 63545. This can be observed during the learning drive with the VAG-COM. If the setting
;value not reached within 30 minutes, an error message is generated. The duration of the test or
;learn drive depends on how fast the tires warm up. Highway will be faster than within the city, stop
;and go traffic might not set at all.
;
001,0,Front Left Wheel
001,1,Front Left,wheel position
001,2,Temperature,of wheel,Specified value: -40...120 °C/not recognized
001,3,Current pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
001,4,Specified pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
;
002,0,Front Left Wheel Transmitter Battery Status
002,1,Position
002,2,Remaining months,of battery life,Specified value: 0...99 months
;
003,0,Transmitter Status - 'Ub. i.O' means 'Monitoring OK' - 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK'
003,1,Position,,'Rad' means wheel in German. vl (vor links) means front left in German.
003,2,Transmitter ID,,A unique ID number - sort of like a computer MAC address - assigned to that specific transmitter
003,3,Transmitter,Status
003,4,Last known status,of sensor,Specified value: 00h (defective) 01h (no pressure change noted) 02h (rapid sending speed - pressure change noted) 03h (thermal cut-out) 04h (sensor malfunctioning - replace it) Ub. i.O./Ub. n.i.O./no Signal
;
004,0,Front Right Wheel
004,1,Front Right,wheel position
004,2,Temperature,of wheel,Specified value: -40...120 °C/not recognized
004,3,Current pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
004,4,Specified pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
;
005,0,Transmitter Battery Status
005,1,Position
005,2,Remaining months,of battery life,Specified value: 0...99 month
;
006,0,Transmitter Status - 'Ub. i.O' means 'Monitoring OK' - 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK'
006,1,Position,,'Rad' means wheel in German. vr (vor rechts) means front right in German
006,2,Transmitter ID,,A unique ID number - sort of like a computer MAC address - assigned to that specific transmitter
006,3,Transmitter,Status
006,4,Last known status,of sensor,Specified value: 00h (defective) 01h (normal sending speed) 02h (rapid sending speed) Ub. i.O./Ub. n.i.O./no Signal
;
007,0,Rear Left Wheel
007,1,Wheel position
007,2,Temperature,of wheel,Specified value: -40...120 °C/not recognized
007,3,Current pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
007,4,Specified pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
;
008,0,Transmitter Battery Status
008,1,Position
008,2,Remaining months,of battery life,Specified value: 0...99 month
;
009,0,Transmitter Status - 'Ub. i.O' means 'Monitoring OK' - 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK'
009,1,Position,,:'Rad' means wheel in German. hl (hinten links) means rear left in German
009,2,Transmitter ID,,A unique ID number - sort of like a computer MAC address - assigned to that specific transmitter
009,3,Transmitter,Status
009,4,Last known status,of sensor,Specified value: 00h (defective) 01h (normal sending speed) 02h (rapid sending speed) Ub. i.O./Ub. n.i.O./no Signal
;
010,0,Rear Right Wheel
010,1,Wheel position
010,2,Temperature,of wheel,Specified value: -40...120 °C/not recognized
010,3,Current pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
010,4,Specified pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
;
011,0,Transmitter Battery Status
011,1,Position
011,2,Remaining months,of battery life,Specified value: 0...99 month
;
012,0,Transmitter Status - 'Ub. i.O' means 'Monitoring OK' - 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK'
012,1,Position,,'Rad' means wheel in German. hr (hinten rechts) means rear right in German
012,2,Transmitter ID,,A unique ID number - sort of like a computer MAC address - assigned to that specific transmitter
012,3,Transmitter,Status
012,4,Last known status,of sensor,Specified value: 00h (defective) 01h (normal sending speed) 02h (rapid sending speed) Ub. i.O./Ub. n.i.O./no Signal
;
013,0,Spare Wheel
013,1,Wheel position
013,2,Temperature,of wheel,Specified value: -40...120 °C/not recognized
013,3,Current pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
013,4,Specified pressure,corrected to 20°C,Specified value: 0...5.37 bar
;
014,0,Transmitter Battery Status
014,1,Position
014,2,Remaining months,of battery life,Specified value: 0...99 month
;
015,0,Transmitter Status - 'Ub. i.O' means 'Monitoring OK' - 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK'
015,1,Position,,'Rad' means wheel in German. rr (reserve rad) means spare tire in German
015,2,Transmitter ID,,A unique ID number - sort of like a computer MAC address - assigned to that specific transmitter
015,3,Transmitter,Status
015,4,Last known status,of sensor,Specified value: 00h (defective) 01h (normal sending speed) 02h (rapid sending speed) Ub. i.O./Ub. n.i.O./no Signal
;
016,0,Current / real time scrolling status of messages being received from the wheel sensors.
016,1,,,Note that '01h' is normal sending speed and '02h' is rapid sending speed (2h = leak detected). 00h = defective sensor.
;
;NOTE: A pressure release of more than 3.0 psi. (0.2 bar) will change the sensor in wheel from 01h to 02h (normal sending speed to rapid sending speed).
;It will remain in rapid sending speed for 3 minutes following the loss of pressure.
;'Ub. i.O' means 'Monitoring OK' - 'Ub. n.i.O.' means 'Monitoring not OK' (Translated from German)
;
017,1,,,ID number of the dealership who last adapted this controller
017,2,Controller,Voltage supply,Specified value: 0...25.5 V
017,3,Vehicle status,,Specified value: 1 = stopped/0 = driving
017,4,Vehicle speed,,Specified value: 0...255 km/h
;
018,0,Atmospheric Conditions
018,1,Outside air,temperature,Specified value: -40...120 °C
;
019,0,Operational status of the control module (read the label file for decoding information)
;Examples:
;25 -> after 15 Power cycle -> Ideal
;265 -> System has wheel and is learning
;63545 -> Final value of every learn confirmation drive
;
20,0,Convenience Controller Area Network (CAN) Bus Status
20,1,CAN Bus,Mode
;
021,0,Status of the Antenna Diagnosis Process, after a test has been initiated via Adaptation channel 17.
021,1,Antenna,diagnosis,inactive/wait/Message End (read the label file for decoding information)
;Antenna diagnosis runs -> wait
;Antenna diagnosis finished -> MESS end
;Read fault error. After that there will be a fault entry for every antenna that is not OK
;The test takes approximately 50 seconds to complete. Antenna resistance is approximately 210K ohms.
;
022,0,*Next measuring block used is 26
;
026,0,Front left wheel - Condition memory of the last 32 ignition cycles
;Examples:
;6 -> soft warning
;7 -> rejected calibration
;8 -> hard warning
;If two different conditions in the same 15 power cycle arise, the highest is registered
;
027,0,Front right wheel - Condition memory of the last 32 ignition cycles
;
028,0,Rear left wheel - Condition memory of the last 32 ignition cycles
;
029,0,Rear right wheel - Condition memory of the last 32 ignition cycles
;
030,0,Spare wheel - Condition memory of the last 32 ignition cycles
;
031,0,*Next known measuring block is 80
;
080,0,Manufacturer work number and identification
; Date of manufacture
; Manufacturer changing status
; Manufacturer test stand no.
; Running manufacturer no.
; e.g. BPA = Bosch factory Ansbach
;
;
;---------------------------------------------------
;
; coding information
;
;---------------------------------------------------
;
;
C00,Tire Pressure Monitoring System (J502) Coding 
C01,0?xxxxx - Region of Operation
C02,4 - North America (NAR)
C03,3 - Rest of World (ROW)
C04, 
C05,0x?xxxx - This value is always 1 (TPMS manufacturer)
C06, 
C07,0xx?xxx - This value is always 1 (end of assembly line)
C08, 
C09,0xxx?xx - Total number of tires to be monitored
C10,2 - 5 tires (vehicle has a full size spare)
C11,3 - 4 tires (vehicle has no spare tire)
C12, 
C13,0xxxx?x - Type of engine installed (this affects the minimum accepted tire pressure)
C14,0 - V8 NAR
C15,1 - V6 gas or diesel ROW
C16,2 - W12 NAR or V8 ROW
C17,5 - W12 ROW
C18,8 - V10 ROW *OR* 19 inch tires with any engine - any country
C19, 
C20,0xxxxx? - This value is always 1 (Full load specified pressures)
;
;
;---------------------------------------------------
;
; adaptation information
;
;---------------------------------------------------
;
;
;Remark: Security code is required for adaptation functions.
;
;
A017,0,Antenna Diagnosis - Entering a 1 (one) in this channel initiates a diagnosis cycle
A017,5,Antenna Diagnosis
A017,6,Here you can enable the Antenna Diagnosis mode.
A017,7
A017,8, 
A017,9,Choices: 1 = Enables antenna diagnosis mode.
A017,10, 
A017,11,View status of test in measuring block 21
A017,12,Test takes about 1 minute to complete.
A017,13,'Check END' will be displayed in block 21-01 when test is finished.
A017,14, 
A017,15,WARNING - be sure vehicle is at least 4 meters (12 feet) away from any other
A017,16,vehicle or loose wheels equipped with TPMS sensors when performing this test!
A017,17, 
A017,18,The progress of the antenna diagnostic test and the test results can
A017,19,be observed in measured value block 21 AND in fault codes - check both.
A017,20,The test takes about 50 seconds to complete.


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (PanEuropean)*

Michael-
Here's the module coding bulletin you were referring to I think:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zer...7.pdf
I got the biggest pleasant surprise tonight! The Phaeton was cold and I hit the 'New Spec Pressures' button and had only driven about 4 miles when the system chimed and said 'Check Tyres'. The 2 front tires and the spare said 'OK'. The Real Axle was blank. Doesn't sound like a failed control module to me! Then, after I had left the car for an hour, started up and left, about 5 minutes later I got a 'Flat Tyre' warning from the rear passenger tire and the rear driver's side was now 'OK'. So, I had a status for all 5 wheels! Almost immediately it chimed again and the rear axle was blank. It looks like the tech did not rotate my tires during the service, something I would assume was standard. Assuming that passenger rear sensor is causing all these glitches, a repair for under $150 should do it! I think I'll try a sensor from TireRack.
Thanks Michael for your encouragement that my control module may not be faulty, and for all the info that I'll continue to use to troubleshoot this situation and any future TPMS issue that arises!
I'm not sure how to feel about the service at the dealership at this point. I realize now how flaky the TPMS can be, I had never had such a frustrating problem with it until last Fall. It had been trouble free for over 4 years.
Robert


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Hi Robert:
I'm happy to hear that you are making progress - that is great news.
I'm not so sure that getting a sensor from Tire Rack would be a good idea, unless you are absolutely, positively, 100% certain that what Tire Rack sells is identical in fit, form, and function to the original VW sensors.
The only reason that I raise that concern is simply because after all the grief you have had, you don't want to introduce another variable into the equation. If, for example, you had encountered one very straightforward failure of a sensor, and you ordered an aftermarket replacement, and that didn't work, well, it would be pretty easy to figure out that the problem was the replacement sensor. But given the complexity of the difficulties that you have had - geez, if it was me, I'd buy an OEM sensor, for no other reason that to rule out variables.
I have no qualms with Tire Rack - I have bought from them before and they are a fine retailer.
Michael


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Robert:
I'm not so sure that getting a sensor from Tire Rack would be a good idea, unless you are absolutely, positively, 100% certain that what Tire Rack sells is identical in fit, form, and function to the original VW sensors.
Michael


Michael-
I ordered the sensor and stem from Tire Rack for $101.97. As a TX resident I don't have to pay any sales tax. I called Tire Rack this morning to ask about the sensor and they said that the sensor they sell *is OEM!* 
So that was great news.
I'll update this post once I get the sensor and have it installed.
Robert


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (Jim_CT)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Jim_CT* »_Robert -
Somewhere in that post, or another on the same subject, Michael explains adaptation. 
Jim


Jim-
This was the only post that I could find about adaptation:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=2055204

Do I need to use the security code of 31564 to set TPMS control module adaptation?

Thanks.
Robert


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Hi Robert:
Initiation of adaptation for the TPMS is actually done by the driver, when the driver selects the "learn new pressures" function from the Front Information Display and Control Screen. It is not necessary to use a diagnostic scan tool to adapt the TPMS.
Just FYI, regarding other controllers that require adaptation: You can adapt many of them without using a diagnostic scan tool - for example, setting pinch protection for windows is done just by running the window up and down, same for setting limits of movement on the steering wheel and the seats. Other controllers require that you use a diagnostic scan tool. The security codes are unique to each controller - a code that works for the suspension controller (34) will not work for any other controller.
Michael


----------



## Jim_CT (Jan 25, 2006)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (rscharf)*

Robert,
Sorry, I know there were postings in the forum on adaptation way back when, but don't know where anymore.
Try going to Section 2.9 in this link http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-com/faq_2.html#2.9 and then select the "coding" or "adaptation". They give screen shots and explanations of using the VCDS tool for these purposes. 
Even better - if you know someone that has a VCDS/VAG-COM, have that person show you - it's very easy, once you see it in action.
I did not have to enter any security codes. I think my "work shop code" is set to "Dresden", which is Shop #: WSC 01065...pretendCTO talked about this in the paddle shifters installation thread (see page 6, around the middle of the page).
Jim


_Modified by Jim_CT at 10:14 PM 2-5-2009_


----------



## rscharf (Jan 19, 2004)

*Re: TPMS Controller Failure - Frustration Level High! (PanEuropean)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PanEuropean* »_Hi Robert:
Initiation of adaptation for the TPMS is actually done by the driver, when the driver selects the "learn new pressures" function from the Front Information Display and Control Screen. It is not necessary to use a diagnostic scan tool to adapt the TPMS.
Michael

Hey Michael-
Thanks, I figured as much.

***GREAT NEWS***
I received my OEM sensor replacement from TireRack and had it installed on the rear passenger tire yesterday at lunch. Going against the directions, I pushed the 'New Spec. Pressures' when the tires were warm immediately after the sensor was replaced. All I did was ask the tire tech to inflate the tire to the lbs. the rear axle had in memory. I didn't even check the other tire pressures. With 2 or 3 resets I was getting system faults. On about the 4th reset, I parked the car at work with the system still in learning mode. I drove to a meeting, parked the car, then started the car to drive back to the office, with the system in learning mode the whole time. Finally, on my way home after work the system chimed and all tires registered 'OK' !!!!!
So, after spending a $107 for sensors, stems, and shipping and $17 to have the wheel sensor installed and tire balanced, my system was back to normal.
I called the dealership to talk with the tech., but he was out sick, so I talked with the service writer. The minute I started telling the story (nicely), he asked if I could tell the story to the Service Manager. Within seconds the Service Manager was on the line and very apologetic. To make a long story short he said that they would make sure they take care of me in the future.
What I'd like to pass on from my particular experience for those of you who still want to maintain the TPMS system on your car:
1. Be patient.
2. If one particular sensor on your car seems to start creating erratic warning messages, make sure you make a note of it if you have to end up replacing that one sensor later. (My car gave a warning at one tire initially, then gave sporadic warnings, and finally just said system fault consistently. Once that a system fault registers on your car there's no way to isolate the faulty sensor easily)
3. Know that one sensor can cause the entire TPMS system to act failed. I read that here on Vortex and it was so true for me. Having a Vag-com did no good for me when 4 out 5 sensors were indicating that they had a transmitting problem.
4. When all seems lost after the TPMS registers a 'System Fault' press the 'New Spec. Pressures' button and keep going through learning new pressures mode to see if you can get some of the system to work so that you can isolate a faulty sensor if that's the problem.
5. A 'System Fault' is a very generic warning. I had a system fault for a faulty sensor and it came back when I was trying to get the new sensor working with the TPMS system. Again, follow #3 and set the system to learn new pressures repeatedly to see if some part of the system is working.
6. Be patient.

I feel the above advice works if you have a sensor problem based on my experience. If you have a controller issue, that would probably be easier to diagnose, but I can't talk about that from experience. That would be Michael's arena.
If you appear to have a sensor problem, a dealership may be tempted to replace all 5 sensors to rule out having repeat problems with the system. Now that I've learned from this experience, I'm hoping that if additional sensors fail I'll be able to quickly diagnose and replace them.
Lastly, as far as I know, my sensor failed due to transmitting problems or some other problem with the sensors themselves and not due to the battery. The sensor should have shown at least 20 months of battery life in it when it failed.
I hope this helps folks in diagnosing their TPMS problems.
Thanks for all the help Michael and others.
Robert


----------



## dlouie (Oct 31, 2008)

Congratulations! Glad to see you resolved your issue.


----------



## brosen (Jun 21, 2009)

*Ready to buy new TPMS sensors*

I checked with the dealer and told me the new version of TPMS sensors come with a 10 years battery (old ones 6 years battery), the P/N I am getting from ETKA and the online parts retailers is 4D0 907 275C, the "C" means latest version 10 years battery ?, the old P/N is 4D0 907 275A.
My other option is to buy the TPMS sensors from Tire Rack, price wise is more or less the same http://www.vwpartsdepartment.com/ have the sensors for $110 with the valve stem included, and Tire Rack have them for $94, my main objective is to buy the new version with the 10 years battery, do you know if the Tire Rack sensors are equivalent to the new VW sensors ?, thanks


----------



## rrussell (Sep 9, 2003)

*Re: Ready to buy new TPMS sensors (brosen)*

I would pay the extra at the dealer and have it warranty. I would have them install it too..


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (dlouie)*

Just a little bit of additional information for everyone:
There is a difference in the coding procedure between early production TPMS controllers (those with a software code of 18 or 21) and later production controllers (those with a software code of 25).
If the controller is not coded correctly - in other words, if an older controller is coded using the protocol for a newer controller, or vice-versa - the TPMS simply will not work.
I have a suspicion that many of the problems that folks have reported following controller replacement may be caused by incorrect coding. Please have a look at the attached VW Technical Service Bulletin (especially page 1) to review correct coding procedures.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Below is a picture of the TPMS controller. You can easily determine the software version within the controller by just looking at the sticker. The software within the controller cannot be flash-updated.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

I am going to guess that after reading the above post, you are thinking_ "Yeah, fine, thanks for that information Michael, but where the heck is the controller?" _
I can only embed one photo per post (I have to host photos externally if I want to put more than one in a post), so, below you will find a picture showing where the TPMS controller is located.
It just slides straight in and out, kind of like a rack in a domestic oven.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

Archival Note:
This thread here is primarily intended for discussion of TPMS troubleshooting, sensor replacement, etc.
There is a very comprehensive post at this link: Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design, Function, Operation that explains how the system works. Before you post any questions, please go and read the information posted on the Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design, Function, Operation thread.
Michael


----------



## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: Ready to buy new TPMS sensors (brosen)*


_Quote, originally posted by *brosen* »_I checked with the dealer and told me the new version of TPMS sensors come with a 10 years battery (old ones 6 years battery), the P/N I am getting from ETKA and the online parts retailers is 4D0 907 275C, the "C" means latest version 10 years battery ?, the old P/N is 4D0 907 275A.
My other option is to buy the TPMS sensors from Tire Rack, price wise is more or less the same http://www.vwpartsdepartment.com/ have the sensors for $110 with the valve stem included, and Tire Rack have them for $94, my main objective is to buy the new version with the 10 years battery, do you know if the Tire Rack sensors are equivalent to the new VW sensors ?, thanks 

Bernard: See these two posts, in this order:
Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design, Function, Operation
TPMS Troubleshooting and Problem Solving Difficulties
After reading those two posts, you will know that the $94 sensors from The Tire Rack are the exact same parts, made by the exact same manufacturer, as the OEM VW parts. It is possible that Beru, the manufacturer of the sensors, has improved the part by now providing a 10 year battery instead of the original 6 year battery (your mention of this is the first I have heard). If this is the case, production of the newly improved sensor will supersede production of the older (6 year battery) sensor - Beru will not make two versions of the sensor.
The Tire Rack is a pretty high-volume retailer, I think you could order from them with confidence that you will be getting the most recent version of the sensor.
Michael


----------



## brosen (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: (dlouie)*

Thanks Michael, your help keeping us orginzed is appreciated.








How do you get the information about the *Remaining Battery Life* with VAG-COM from the TPMS Sensors ?, thanks 


_Modified by brosen at 8:32 AM 8-3-2009_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (brosen)*

Remaining battery life and other details about each wheel can be viewed in the 'Measured Value Blocks' section of VAG-COM. There is a picture on the first page of this thread that shows the first 3 lines of the MVB for the TPMS controller. I think that the TPMS controller has about 18 lines total.
You can download a manual from Ross-Tech (manufacturers of VAG-COM) that explains how to view MVBs.
Michael


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## brosen (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

The value I get is 19 for all the tires (5 including spare), what should be the initial value with new sensors 72 (meaning 6 years) ?, I just want to make sure what I am reading is months and not something else ?, thanks


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (brosen)*

You are reading the number of months remaining - in your case, 19 months.
Initial value with new sensors will be as explained on the other thread: 
(defined life period) - (months passed since manufacture of sensors) = displayed months remaining.
Michael


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## brosen (Jun 21, 2009)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Update:*
Today the dealer found 2 defective sensors, they were not sending any signal, they replaced all five sensors and installed five brand new tires (my other thread about the Load Index 99) Continental Extreme Contact DWS. (103Y) (I am paying for the spare tire, it was more than 6 years old, so I did not want to take any risk)
So far the service *Westside VW* provides here in Minneapolis is one of the best I've seen, I have had many brands in many different countries (Chevrolet, Nissan, Hyundai, Fiat, Peugeot, Opel, Chrysler, BMW, Honda, etc.), and *Volkswagen and Westside* are by far one of the BEST. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


_Modified by brosen at 4:43 PM 8-5-2009_


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

*Re: (PanEuropean)*

*Archival Note: *See also this post, which discusses the same topic and presents some additional information - Troubleshooting Tire Pressure Monitoring System faults.


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## RichardMeyer (Mar 10, 2010)

*Replacement TPMS sensor: OroTek OBE-001*

I replaced my four original sensors over the weekend (2004 North American V8). Instead of the OEM Beru RDE-001, I decided to go with the OroTek OBE-001 which is a direct drop-in replacement for the Beru. They're slightly less expensive at US$83 a piece which includes the new valve stem. I didn't replace the spare sensor, but it still has another year or two left on the battery, and when it fails, I'll probably just turn off the spare tire monitoring. The OroTeks worked perfectly upon installation (by Tiretown in State College, PA). The only glitch was that they put my old sensors (three of which were still transmitting--but just barely) in the trunk, where the signals were being picked up by the spare tire antenna. Made for same strange readings (i.e., three flat tires) and had me scratching my head for a while until I figured it out. Once I got the old sensors a safe distance away, I hit the re-learn button again and it soon began working perfectly.

Richard in State College, Pennsylvania, USA


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## pabraham100 (Nov 8, 2011)

*TPMS help needed interpreting diagnostic code.*

Hello
In cold weather ( Malfunction Indicator Lamp but I do not see such a lamp on the controller in the trunk.

Please advise me on what the fault "really" is and how I could fix it.

Thanks


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Yeah, mine did exactly the same thing, the weather change is coincidence, you need a new controller. When I took it to the dealer they told me it was fine then it failed again. The second time they told me it was fine I waited until the next day to pick it up so I could show them that it fails overnight. You'll find that the system works better with the new controller, the diagnostic performance is improved. I don't think it's a big deal, or too expensive, to change the controller, mine was covered by the warranty.


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## pabraham100 (Nov 8, 2011)

*Thank you for your reply*



invisiblewave said:


> Yeah, mine did exactly the same thing, the weather change is coincidence, you need a new controller. Mine did exactly the same thing, when I took it to the dealer they told me it was fine then it failed again. The second time they told me it was fine I waited until the next day to pick it up so I could show them that it fails overnight. You'll find that the system works better with the new controller, the diagnostic performance is improved. I don't think it's a big deal, or too expensive, to change the controller, mine was covered by the warranty.


Part ordered not cheap 465 USD with discount!. I saw an almost identical Mercedes Benz part for 116 - go figure!.


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## pabraham100 (Nov 8, 2011)

*Thank you for your reply*



invisiblewave said:


> Yeah, mine did exactly the same thing, the weather change is coincidence, you need a new controller. Mine did exactly the same thing, when I took it to the dealer they told me it was fine then it failed again. The second time they told me it was fine I waited until the next day to pick it up so I could show them that it fails overnight. You'll find that the system works better with the new controller, the diagnostic performance is improved. I don't think it's a big deal, or too expensive, to change the controller, mine was covered by the warranty.


Part ordered, not cheap 465 USD with discount!. I saw an almost identical Mercedes Benz part for 116 - go figure!.


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Ouch! I hope it works! Is it easy to get to?


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## PGrace (Feb 1, 2012)

*TPMS issues, Broken links*

I'm having a TPMS problem.

I had my wheels chromed (looks like they should now) but that involved R&R my TPMS sensors.
Upon reinstallation, I had a fault on the spare, no sensor.
I ran an adaptation cycle, and all five sensors show good.
Every time I restart the car, the spare is "gone" but re-adaptation always finds it again.
I've done this ~dozen times and always get the same result.

Adapt, everything is fine. Power-cycle the car, and the spare goes missing.

The link to "*Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design, Function, Operation*" here is also "404", can someone find it and fix the link?


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Hi Paul,

Sorry that some of the links in this thread are broken. This goes back to a forum software upgrade. I have raised it with the forum technical gurus to try and fix broken links automatically. If we have to wait a while, then I'll fix them as soon as I can.

That same link in the TOC tests correctly, it's in post #5 under the heading 'How systems work'.

Tire Pressure Monitoring System (TPMS) - Design, Function, Operation and Troubleshooting

If the TPMS controller is forgetting some of its settings at every startup, then either its memory is faulty or it is receiving a reset command (or rather, it thinks it is) at every engine cranking. This is the kind of glitch that happens when the left battery can't cope any longer due to old age, or is having excessive power drain at startup due to a failed right battery. There could be other similar electrical or data problems, but the battery/batteries are the prime suspect.

Regards,
Chris


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

PGrace said:


> Every time I restart the car, the spare is "gone" but re-adaptation always finds it again.


Hi Paul:

It is possible that the radio frequency emissions from the sensors arrive at different strengths from within the 4 mounted chromed wheels and the (presumably not chromed) spare wheel.

Something you might want to try - it is easy enough - is to rotate the spare wheel within the well under the trunk so that the valve stem (and thus the transmitter for the pressure sensor) is in the center of the car, towards the front. In other words, put the valve stem at the 12 o'clock position, as you view the spare when standing behind the car. That action solved the spare tire monitoring problem on my car.

Positioning the spare wheel valve stem 'front and center' will put the transmitter within the spare wheel equidistant from the antennas in each of the rear wheel wells. For your info, there is no antenna in the spare wheel well that is dedicated to the spare wheel - instead, the spare wheel is monitored by the antennas in each of the two rear wheel compartments.

Michael


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## saxtonram (May 30, 2013)

Sorry to hijack this post, but I am prompted to ask my question as it is about using the TPMS.

I had a low air warning yesterday on my 2006 V8. It showed warning triangles next to all four tires, but it turned out only the front right one was low. Is something wrong, or is my TPMS not smart enough to tell me which specific tire is low?

Nic


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## pgoober (Jan 4, 2009)

*All four can be a consequence of dramatic T or Hg shifts*

Nic, 
In my experience, when a major weather system moves through and either rapidly cools the city or drops the barometer measurements I get TPMS on all four.
Last week sometime it happened when we got a big dose of rain and wind from a substantial multistate thunderstorm.

This also happens to me during Spring and Fall when prevailing temps rise or fall. 

When I have had a nail in a tire, it was just one TPMS that went off.

YMMV
-BD


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## PanEuropean (Nov 3, 2001)

pgoober said:


> Nic,
> In my experience, when a major weather system moves through and either rapidly cools the city or drops the barometer measurements I get TPMS on all four.
> 
> *This also happens to me during Spring and Fall when prevailing temps rise or fall.*


Nic:

Brian raises a very good point in his post above.

What we have to keep in mind is that the TPMS measures differential pressure between the air that is captured within the wheel/tire and the air in the atmosphere surrounding the car. It does not measure absolute pressure (in other words, the pressure inside the wheel/tire without regard to the atmosphere surrounding the car).

Hence, whenever the atmospheric pressure changes substantially, the differential pressure also changes, and that can be enough to trigger a TPMS warning. Although this whole process might sound like a PITA, it makes sense. If you inflate your tires to (for example) 40 PSI pressure in the summertime, that pressure - which is differential pressure between what is inside the tire and what surrounds the tire - will change as temperatures fall in the autumn and winter. Even if there is no leak of any kind from the tire, a tire that measures 40 PSI on a warm summer day will register a lower pressure on a cold autumn morning.

Hence, we need to add air to the tires in the fall and winter when temperatures drop. To a lesser extent, we might have to add air to the tires if a strong high pressure mass is prevailing in our area (clear sunny days, etc.), although it is less common to get TPMS warnings due to air pressure changes than it is to get TPMS warnings due to seasonal temperature changes.

This particular characteristic of the TPMS has come up for discussion before - in fact, it's pretty regular, every late summer and early fall around this time, when temperatures start to drop, the question arises.

The fix is simple, just bring the tire pressures back up to the desired set point, taking care to do this when the tires are stone cold, ideally after the car has sat overnight, and not been driven more than a mile or so.

Michael


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## invisiblewave (Sep 22, 2008)

Is there another sensor measuring the ambient atmospheric pressure then? Or does the fall in atmospheric pressure cause the tyre to expand, thereby reducing the absolute pressure inside?


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## jyoung8607 (Feb 14, 2006)

saxtonram said:


> Sorry to hijack this post, but I am prompted to ask my question as it is about using the TPMS.
> 
> I had a low air warning yesterday on my 2006 V8. It showed warning triangles next to all four tires, but it turned out only the front right one was low. Is something wrong, or is my TPMS not smart enough to tell me which specific tire is low?
> 
> Nic


TPMS is very smart. However, the way it reports results to the driver can be very confusing. TPMS is watching for more than just a single tire being low. There are actually three different conditions it's watching for:

A single tire being low (with different reaction speeds and types depending on the speed and depth of the pressure loss)
>0.4 bar differential between tires on the same axle (warns on both tires)
>0.5 bar differential between any pair of tires on the front and rear, and I believe the spare (warns on all four tires)
That last one is really easy to set off. I don't know what the V8 uses, but the W12 NAR spec pressures are 42/48 PSI, so you start off with a 6 PSI (0.4 bar) spread. A pretty small deviation high in the rear or low in the front can violate the 0.5 bar differential rule. I think this is probably what you ran into. I actually ran into learning problems and warnings once that I tracked down to the spare tire being a bit too high, as I believe it's considered part of the rear axle.

Jason


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

> Is there another sensor measuring the ambient atmospheric pressure then?


Data sheets for the sensor component in the tyre show a sensitive layer that gives a voltage output depending on its amount of bend. This layer has tyre-air on one side and a vacuum chamber on the other side, so the amount of bending varies as the tyre-air pressure changes.

So, as raw data, the wheel sensors attempt to measure the absolute pressure in the tyre rather than the differential pressure across the tyre wall. They also measure the tyre-air temperature.

The TPMS controller also needs to know ambient pressure (ie external weather or altitude), so it either has its own internal absolute pressure sensor or asks across the CAN-Bus for this value from the ECUs, and also gets the Outside Ambient Temperature, Running Time from cold and Road Speed. Then, assuming it holds some factory tyre size tables internally and the tyres fitted to the car are actually coded properly somewhere across the CAN-Bus, it's armed with all the facts it needs to calculate the effective sidewall support available to each tyre and the risks to the differentials from unmatched tyre circumferences.

I presume there are a large number of possible calculations that could be made to support different go/no-go scenarios, politics, regulations, manufacturers preferences and so on, which is why different brands of car TPMS behave in different ways.

Chris


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## jaywil0012 (Nov 5, 2013)

samphoebe said:


> *Re: (Kcmover)*
> 
> A while back I too had same problems and Fidelity replaced control module but upon restarting the car, the tpms problems persisted so the dealer said I should (at my expense) replace all tire sensors at a cost of some $1200 or so I believe. Well I've unplugged the module and had them do whatever to make the error messages stop and rendering the tpms inert. Going it the old fashioned route of manually checking tire pressures. Other than the tpms I can say that this car is one I've been proud to own and hopefully will for several more years.
> I'll too sell my tpms module that is brand new for a mere $400. I'd probably give it away but I needed some restitution for my pain and suffering.


Do you still have module?


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## 53PL-50AAA-VW611BAN (Feb 10, 2015)

The module has to be compatible with the sensors. It also has to be compatible with the car. (I have two modules that are compatible with my sensors but not the car.)

Before buying a module make sure it matches what you have and what you have matches the sensors.

If you change to a completely different module, you will have to change all 5 sensors, unless a previous owner had incorrect sensors installed. The module says right on it which sensors to use so it's almost idiot-proof.

I may be wrong but TPMS does work if the module is correct for the car and the sensors match what the module wants.

I believe universal sensors are adaptable to any controller of the correct frequency (read the TPMS threads) but the "correct" sensors were cheap enough that I bought those. 

Early modules are probably for RDKS sensors.


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