# Mintex vs. Hawk



## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

Hey guys, any opinions on Mintex Red brake pads vs. Hawk blue / Hawk HPS
Car is daily driven/weekend track use


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

Red box sucks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## T-Red Tex (Apr 19, 2006)

*Re: (VWn00b)*

Ditto. Red box sux X2.


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (T-Red Tex)*

I've used both! HPS for the win! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

oki cool, whats the difference betwen HPS and HPS+ or Hawk blue? any squeaking issues with any of those?







I had greenstuff ebc before and i hated them, squeaking like crazy.


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (mescaline)*


_Quote, originally posted by *mescaline* »_oki cool, whats the difference betwen HPS and HPS+ or Hawk blue? any squeaking issues with any of those?







I had greenstuff ebc before and i hated them, squeaking like crazy.

HPS is a *H*igh *P*erformance *S*treet pad and HP+ is an adequate track and autocross pad but can still be driven safely on the street (ie. it will be dirty and squeaky but still have grip at low temperatures to get you to the track)








EBC are the sh!ttist pads I've ever used, absolutely the worst! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

yea, agreed on EBC...
Will HPS squeak? Man i would hate to go through what i went with EBC pads...I want them to be quiet


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## Mikes72sb (Oct 27, 2001)

*Re: (mescaline)*

Mintex Red Box is an OE replacement. My Dad has them on his '85 911 and they dust like mad, but they're decent at best.
As mentioned, the HPS are a performance street pad that will be OK for a beginner in autocross or even HPDE. HP+ are a step up from those in terms of track ability. Hawk Blue is a track pad and really shouldn't be used on the street.
I currently run EBC Greens and at first I liked them. Heck, I even did a couple of HPDE's with them and they were OK, but there is better out there. They used to squeal like mad, but they're quiet now. 
For my next pads, I am going to try the Satisfied GranSport 6 pads. They're in the same class as the HPS, but I have not seen anyone on Vortex ever use them. 


_Modified by Mikes72sb at 11:04 AM 8-1-2007_


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: (Mikes72sb)*

Unless you track or autocross the car, you don't need anything other than Hawk HPS.
If you autocross or do HPDEs at tracks that aren't hard on brakes, go with Hawk HP+. I don't advise them for daily driving due to excess rotor wear and a lot of black dust.
If you do HPDEs at tracks with heavy braking areas, go with the Blue 9012.
DO NOT use the 9012 for daily driving. It is a full race-spec pad and while it's capabale of ridiculous braking, you'll never get it into the proper heat range to utilize the benefits. It'll also eat your rotors and the dust is corrosive to the finish of your wheels.


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## Soren (Oct 31, 2000)

I used mintex red box until just recently switching to HPS, so my verdict on redbox is definitely in, however my HPS comments are not set in stone... 
Mintex reds - start out good, possibly grip better than HPS during break-in, squeak like hell shortly after that, eat up your rotors a teeny bit, and dust about half as much as stock pads. Overall they are decent/good.
Hawk HPS - start out slightly weak, get MUCH better after break in/wearing beyond the wedge, brake SILENTLY if installed/bedded properly, dust maybe 15% vs stock, don't wear your rotors down as fast. After being a bit freaked out at first I am loving them - good/verygood pads.


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (gehr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gehr* »_EBC are the sh!ttist pads I've ever used, absolutely the worst! http://****************.com/smile/emthdown.gif









EBC greenstuff pads suck. I use the yellows for track days and daily driving. Love them. No noise, low dust, and great cold bite and no fade. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*


_Quote, originally posted by *VWn00b* »_
*EBC greenstuff pads suck. *I use the yellows for track days and daily driving. Love them. No noise, low dust, and great cold bite and no fade. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


They suck......but you love them!??!?!??!





















But you were right the first time, they do suck!


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## Banditt007 (Oct 23, 2002)

*Re: (gehr)*

he's saying he hated the green stuff but loved the yellow stuff pads


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (Banditt007)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Banditt007* »_he's saying he hated the green stuff but loved the yellow stuff pads









Thanks. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif Helps to read the WHOLE post before making stupid comments like that.


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## gehr (Jan 28, 2004)

*Re: (VWn00b)*








Opps my bad! I still think all EBC suck though!


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## VWn00b (Mar 4, 2005)

*Re: (gehr)*


_Quote, originally posted by *gehr* »_







Opps my bad! I still think all EBC suck though!


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## phatvw (Aug 29, 2001)

*Re: (collins_tc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *collins_tc* »_Unless you track or autocross the car, you don't need anything other than Hawk HPS.
If you autocross or do HPDEs at tracks that aren't hard on brakes, go with Hawk HP+. I don't advise them for daily driving due to excess rotor wear and a lot of black dust.
If you do HPDEs at tracks with heavy braking areas, go with the Blue 9012.
DO NOT use the 9012 for daily driving. It is a full race-spec pad and while it's capabale of ridiculous braking, you'll never get it into the proper heat range to utilize the benefits. It'll also eat your rotors and the dust is corrosive to the finish of your wheels.


I have Hawk Blue 9012 on the front axle for track days and I drive with them to and from the track only. Then I swap back to regular pads. When they are cold, the braking is horrible, so I have to be very careful. They also make a very very loud scraping or squealing sound even when you're not on the brake pedal which is telling you that your rotors are being eaten. Once they heat up on the racetrack, the noises go away and the braking force is just crazy
Hawk HPS is the forum choice for street use. If you're doing serious racing, swap the front pads to Ferodo DS2500 and leave the rears HPS. DS2500 is about the hottest you can go on the front before getting into a true race pad like the Hawk Blue 9012.
Check out http://www.raceshopper.com for best prices on all these pads.
And for the life of everyone, stay away from Mintex redbox. Mintex C-tech are great, but red-box is worse than OEM. 


_Modified by phatvw at 5:27 PM 8-2-2007_


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## Fluxburn64 (Apr 9, 2005)

*Re: (phatvw)*


_Quote, originally posted by *phatvw* »_

I have Hawk Blue 9012 on the front axle for track days and I drive with them to and from the track only. Then I swap back to regular pads. When they are cold, the braking is horrible, so I have to be very careful. They also make a very very loud scraping or squealing sound even when you're not on the brake pedal which is telling you that your rotors are being eaten. Once they heat up on the racetrack, the noises go away and the braking force is just crazy
Hawk HPS is the forum choice for street use. If you're doing serious racing, swap the front pads to Ferodo DS2500 and leave the rears HPS. DS2500 is about the hottest you can go on the front before getting into a true race pad like the Hawk Blue 9012.
Check out http://www.raceshopper.com for best prices on all these pads.
And for the life of everyone, stay away from Mintex redbox. Mintex C-tech are great, but red-box is worse than OEM. 

_Modified by phatvw at 5:27 PM 8-2-2007_

His advice is golden. Hawk HPS are pretty awesome, but easily can overheat in spirited racing (lots of braking from high speed). For normal street, they brake at least 50% better then stock pads. They just aren't good enough for all out racing though.


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## mescaline (Jul 15, 2005)

spirited racing or spirited driving?


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## L8 APEKS (Feb 2, 2006)

*Re: (mescaline)*

HP+ are just all-around excellent.
I'm on a set of PBR Ultimates right now for street pads and they seem decent, way better than the Mintex reds.
FYI, HPS/HP+ should be compared to Mintex C-Tech pads, not the cheapo red box pads!


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## IJM (Jul 30, 2001)

*Re: (L8 APEKS)*

I'm using HPS front and rear. I notice the HPS don't seem to provide much bite, but I may have overheated the pads from two track sessions. I'm now using Carbotech XP10 up front at the track, so the overheating problem has been solved. Still seeing not as much bite with the Hawks as I'd like. I'm actually getting less bite than with stock pads. This has been confirmed by others who have recently driven the car.










_Modified by IJM at 11:14 AM 8-6-2007_


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: (IJM)*


_Quote, originally posted by *IJM* »_I'm using HPS front and rear. I notice the HPS don't seem to provide much bite, but I may have overheated the pads from two track sessions. I'm now using Carbotech XP10 up front at the track, so the overheating problem has been solved. Still seeing not as much bite with the Hawks as I'd like. I'm actually getting less bite than with stock pads. This has been confirmed by others who have recently driven the car.









The HPS should never see track time, especially if you're on a track that's hard on brakes. If you're doing HPDEs, you should *at least* use HP+ (HPS on the rears are fine - I use them even when running Blue 9012 on the front). From what I gather from various sites, the Carbotech XP-10 is a full race-spec pad similar, if not slightly more aggressive than the Blue 9012. It's no wonder you're seeing better performance on the track - you went from a high performance street-only pad to a race-spec pad!!!









*
Quote » Carbotech Website
*
_Carbotech XP10™ (1110) 
When Carbotech unleashed the XP10™ to the general public, it was an instant success, gathering multiple regional, divisional, and national SCCA/NASA road racing championships. This is a very high initial bite friction material, with a coefficient of friction unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1700°F. Due to the high level of friction and bite, this material is recommended for cars weighing 2,300lbs or more, not including formula cars and cars with brake bias weighing less than 2,300lbs. This is the preferred compound for the front of Spec Miata racers, SSC,SSB, T3, SRF, ITS, ITE, H1,H2, H3, H4, 944 Cup, ST, GS, Factory Five Cobra’s and many more Grand-Am/SCCA/NASA classes. XP10™ is also ideal for advanced/instructor level HPDE drivers. XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release and excellent modulation, rotor friendliness, and non-corrosive dust that have made all Carbotech._


_Modified by collins_tc at 12:21 PM 8-6-2007_


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## IJM (Jul 30, 2001)

*Re: (collins_tc)*

You're right, but perhaps my post was sloppy. My Ferodo DS2500 front pads (previously used for both street and track) were toast, so I decided to order some HPS for street and XP10 for dedicated track use and do it right. I use HPS in the rear all the time. 
The Carbotechs didn't come in as scheduled, so I had to run the first two sessions on HPS up front, much to my chagrin. I was able to "procure" some XP10s for the remaining sessions. My fear is that I may have overheated the pads during those first two sessions. I was at Summit Point Shenandoah Circuit that weekend.
After switching back to the HPS up front for street driving, several people, including two mechanics, have commented that my brakes don't grab well. 
I hope that was a little clearer.


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## sloppychicken (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: (collins_tc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *collins_tc* »_Unless you track or autocross the car, you don't need anything other than Hawk HPS.
If you autocross or do HPDEs at tracks that aren't hard on brakes, go with Hawk HP+. I don't advise them for daily driving due to excess rotor wear and a lot of black dust.
If you do HPDEs at tracks with heavy braking areas, go with the Blue 9012.
DO NOT use the 9012 for daily driving. It is a full race-spec pad and while it's capabale of ridiculous braking, you'll never get it into the proper heat range to utilize the benefits. *It'll also eat your rotors and the dust is corrosive to the finish of your wheels.*

Is there anyway to remove the corrosive dust if its caked on the wheels and wont come of with normal wheel cleaner or scrubbing?


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## sloppychicken (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: (collins_tc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *collins_tc* »_Unless you track or autocross the car, you don't need anything other than Hawk HPS.

What is the cheapest site to find Hawk HPS Pads?


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## collins_tc (Dec 19, 2000)

*Re: (sloppychicken)*


_Quote, originally posted by *sloppychicken* »_Is there anyway to remove the corrosive dust if its caked on the wheels and wont come of with normal wheel cleaner or scrubbing? 

To get caked-on dist off, lots of industrial degreaser and a toothbrush. Then 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. That system worked quite well for me.

_Quote, originally posted by *sloppychicken* »_What is the cheapest site to find Hawk HPS Pads?

http://www.raceshopper.com


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## sloppychicken (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: (collins_tc)*


_Quote, originally posted by *collins_tc* »_
To get caked-on dist off, lots of industrial degreaser and a toothbrush. Then 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. That system worked quite well for me.
http://www.raceshopper.com

Thanks for the quick response. Any particular industrial degreaser you recommend? Thanks.


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## [email protected] (Oct 5, 2005)

*Re: (sloppychicken)*

Try non diluted Simple Green. Just don't let it dry on the wheels or the dust. Might not get the real old stuff off, but anything new will rinse right off. Just let it sit for a few minutes.


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## sloppychicken (Jan 28, 2001)

*Re: ([email protected])*


_Quote, originally posted by *[email protected]* »_Try non diluted Simple Green. Just don't let it dry on the wheels or the dust. Might not get the real old stuff off, but anything new will rinse right off. Just let it sit for a few minutes.

Thanks. I'm trying to get the old stuff off. My car sat for a while (broken Turbo) and I didn't know my brembo big brake kit pads would do this. It's to the point that i have to buy new wheels, but I'm willing to try anything.


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