# '13 Touareg VR6 or TDI can this be right?



## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

Looking to trade up from an '09 VW Routan SEL 4.0L (yes, I already know it's not a TRUE VW but its served its purpose) to a '12/'13 Touareg and as before the Routan I had a '98 New Beetle TDI was leaning strongly towards the TDI but looked up these True Cost to Own figures on edmunds and the TDI appears to save fuel expenses but expected depreciation, maintenance, repairs, insurance are all higher ... those who own a '12 or '13 Touareg TDI ever consider the VR6 vs their TDI's? Can these be wrong ... seems like much bigger difference that just the higher upfront cost to purchase which I already knew?


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

The diesel will have a higher resale. Can't speak for maintenance other than I have over 15k on my TDI and other than my AdBlue pump being replaced at 1100 miles, it has been a flawless ride. If you live in a big city, then the diesel may not be the right choice, but if you're suburban or rural, then it is the smart choice for a SUV.

There's a lot more action for the Touareg over on Club Touareg, sad to report since I really enjoy Vortex. Post your question there and you're guaranteed to get a lot of replies. Promise!


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

fincher said:


> The diesel will have a higher resale. Can't speak for maintenance other than I have over 15k on my TDI and other than my AdBlue pump being replaced at 1100 miles, it has been a flawless ride. If you live in a big city, then the diesel may not be the right choice, but if you're suburban or rural, then it is the smart choice for a SUV.
> 
> There's a lot more action for the Touareg over on Club Touareg, sad to report since I really enjoy Vortex. Post your question there and you're guaranteed to get a lot of replies. Promise!


Thanks much 'fincher' for this suggestion, already on multiple pages of replies and comments over on Club Touareg, no decision yet but highly recommend that forum for avid Touareg owners; both gasser and diesel owners. Have also participated on the TDIClub forum when I owned the '98 NB TDI but of course those folks are (rightly so) biased towards the TDI. I'm surprised at the little coverage the Touareg gets in the motoring press, especially with some of the advances in hybrid and diesel technology but I guess its one of those best kept secrets that you can stumble on. 

As far as the numbers above, they don't tell the whole story but as some gas stations are selling diesel around here for 50 to 60 cents per gallon more than regular (or about 20 cents more than premium) I'll be doing my own expected fuel use calculations as well as check with my auto insurer, used TDI asking prices versus gassers, etc. to see what a more realistic comparison might be.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

My pleasure. Diesel is higher around us in the winter. When they make the 'summer blend' for gas, the diesel will be lower than gas. I pay $4 per gallon now...paid $3.50-3.60 over the summer. If you have a smartphone, download the GasBuddy app.

I am biased toward the TDI mainly because it makes sense for an SUV. If you want to drive mine, just PM me in Club Touareg. Good luck!


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

fincher said:


> My pleasure. Diesel is higher around us in the winter. When they make the 'summer blend' for gas, the diesel will be lower than gas. I pay $4 per gallon now...paid $3.50-3.60 over the summer. If you have a smartphone, download the GasBuddy app.
> 
> I am biased toward the TDI mainly because it makes sense for an SUV. If you want to drive mine, just PM me in Club Touareg. Good luck!


 Thanks very much for the driving offer ... but I had a decent TDI test drive at the dealer but may just try the gasser as well. 

I just gassed up my Routan the other day at my favorite station (heavy volume, typically the lowest area prices) and mid-range I use was $3.59/gal, regular was $3.44, premium (used in the VR6 gasser) was $3.79 and diesel was $3.99 so .40 cents more a gallon for diesel than for the car I would replace but .55 more than regular; I got 16.6 MPG, assume the TDI may do 22 -- hopefully better, but assume on the lower end as it was around town driving so the 250 miles I drove would be $45.34 versus $54.07 for the Routi but the VR6 gasser (say at 18 MPG, hopefully better but perhaps not) using premium would be $52.64. Using these figures, even if I didn't take any long trips which I typically will do at least 2 or more a year; the net savings at 12,500 miles per year would be $436.50 for the TDI and only a $71.50 difference with $365 for the gasser --- of course assumes the MPG's above as well as no trips, etc. but slims down the out-of-pocket difference between the two. 

No question the depreciation is much higher on the gasser version (biggest car expense as always) but you would need to drive lots more to realize just on fuel savings (plus add in the AdBlue costs, but not the first 3 years). As you can see from above, I have a tendency to perhaps analyze things a bit too much but my job requires lots of budget stuff and 'what if's' so I can't really help it -- I don't need to justify this purchase or even as my wife tells me to not simply 'settle' for something that on paper looks like a better choice but it's at least interesting to make comparisons and determine if assumptions are correct or not (at least to me). In comparison to these annual fuel costs for instance, one of our commuter cars is a Nissan LEAF which runs on electricity only at .066 cents/kWh (flat rate) and typically gets 4.5 miles per kWh so 12,500 miles would cost $183.33 in electricity versus $2,267.05 for a TDI at 22 MPG and $3.99/gal. -- it doesn't have the utility or room of the Touareg of course but shows you really how much on paper you're paying to get back and forth to work. 

Lastly, another vehicle I just test drove yesterday just so I could see build and ride quality, etc. which was close to the same in price, at a little over $47K MSRP --- a '13 Toyota Highlander Hybrid Ltd.; it has mileage ratings of 28/28 and uses regular so would only cost $1,535.71 or $731.34 less than a TDI on fuel. It had plenty of room, a neat 3rd-row seat (really just for kids), of course the Toyota reliability going for it but was kind of lifeless to drive. The displays were ancient looking, small main display for maps, backup camera w/o proximity lines, rather old interface. The ride in hybrid mode was quiet but when you floored it, the engine droned and felt strained probably due to CVT in use. The leather perforated and heated seats were just OK, no match to the leatherette ones on the TDI Sport I drove so at least I was able to cross off the Highlander as a possibility; just didn't provide the driving appeal of the Touareg but I wasn't totally surprised ... the search continues.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

My only advice then, is to go with your gut. Life is short. Sometimes you gotta pay a little more to get a lot. At some point your analysis will result in paralysis.


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## OsirisTDI (Jul 2, 2007)

If you want a great SUV....Touareg TDI, if you need great $ numbers, look elsewhere. My Exec. TDI is a joy to operate, across town or across the country.


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

OsirisTDI said:


> If you want a great SUV....Touareg TDI, if you need great $ numbers, look elsewhere. My Exec. TDI is a joy to operate, across town or across the country.


 Not so much that I need great numbers, I won't totally ignore the cost but will consider it; but I won't put up with ANY vehicle that prevents me from enjoying it -- i.e., too much time in the shop or it leaves me stranded! The main reason I'm even thinking of trading a 3 1/2 year old car (the '09 Routan) is that its left me stranded twice; luckily once was just at home in my garage (but of course one day after purchase!) and once by my wife at her work (luckily she is much closer than I am to the VW dealer it was towed to) and of course both were covered under warranty/VW roadside assistance. The first issue was somewhat quickly resolved, the second they had it for I seem to recall 9 days as it was hard to pinpoint the no-start issue -- we have an 'extra' car so other than the inconvenience it wasn't bad, but that could change if I decide to consolidate to one car for each of the 3 drivers we have --- we all go in different directions, leave at different times, etc. so need something reliable. 

My concern in keeping the Routan is that now its out of warranty I'll get stranded on a trip far away from home which basically ruins the trip, I also really don't need/use all the extra space and 3rd seat -- some would say well just rent something instead which defeats the purpose of getting something this 'nice' to drive! Over on the other Touareg forums, I'm seeing a fair amount of stories on some repairs, etc. but it wasn't always clear if these were indeed breakdowns or things that showed up during routine maintenance stops that will eventually need attending to. I still remember the days that British roadster owners would take 'spares' (fan belts, points, fuses, hopefully coveralls as well in case they needed to crawl under and fix a fuel pump, etc.) because they simply could not depend on their cars --- I still own a '99 Miata which is the spiritual successor to those old cars and while it doesn't necessarily have the heritage of those cars its just as fun to drive and could travel anywhere without a worry --- perhaps I'm just asking too much of the Touareg but hope this clarifies what I'm asking for feedback on --- I can deal with the extra cost but if the Touareg is simply no better than my Routan on reliability perhaps I need to look elsewhere which would be a real shame because I really like it.


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## Yeti35 (May 17, 2006)

early74B said:


> My concern in keeping the Routan is that now its out of warranty I'll get stranded on a trip far away from home which basically ruins the trip, I also really don't need/use all the extra space and 3rd seat -- some would say well just rent something instead which defeats the purpose of getting something this 'nice' to drive! Over on the other Touareg forums, I'm seeing a fair amount of stories on some repairs, etc. but it wasn't always clear if these were indeed breakdowns or things that showed up during routine maintenance stops that will eventually need attending to. I still remember the days that British roadster owners would take 'spares' (fan belts, points, fuses, hopefully coveralls as well in case they needed to crawl under and fix a fuel pump, etc.) because they simply could not depend on their cars --- I still own a '99 Miata which is the spiritual successor to those old cars and while it doesn't necessarily have the heritage of those cars its just as fun to drive and could travel anywhere without a worry --- perhaps I'm just asking too much of the Touareg but hope this clarifies what I'm asking for feedback on --- I can deal with the extra cost but if the Touareg is simply no better than my Routan on reliability perhaps I need to look elsewhere which would be a real shame because I really like it.


 Keep the Routan if it is paid for and you like it. You don't have to get it serviced at a VW dealer and could take it to any Chrysler dealer since it is one of their vans just essentially rebadged. Service on it should be cheaper then the Touareg if you go that route.


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## Lee_K (Apr 22, 2012)

We chose the VR6 Sport over the TDI simply because of cost. While everyone loves the power of the diesel (including my wife when she test drove both versions back-to-back), the gasoline engine is no slouch at 280 HP and the difference in fuel costs between the two takes a very long time to justify the $8000 price difference (your Edmunds figures). Add in the fact that VW was dealing on 2012s with more discounts off of list for the VR6 vs. the TDI and better finance and lease rates and it makes more financial sense to go with petrol over oil. 

But car buying isn't all about dispassionate numbers. Do many VR6 owners wish they had gotten a TDI instead? Probably a significant number. But how many TDI owners wish they had bought a VR6 instead? I suspect not many. Diesel owners in general are a pretty happy lot. For me, the VR6 is just fine. I average about 20 MPG overall in mixed driving and that is pretty good for an SUV, particularly one as good as the Touareg. And it is a very good vehicle, period. Diesel or gas.


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

Lee_K said:


> We chose the VR6 Sport over the TDI simply because of cost. While everyone loves the power of the diesel (including my wife when she test drove both versions back-to-back), the gasoline engine is no slouch at 280 HP and the difference in fuel costs between the two takes a very long time to justify the $8000 price difference (your Edmunds figures). Add in the fact that VW was dealing on 2012s with more discounts off of list for the VR6 vs. the TDI and better finance and lease rates and it makes more financial sense to go with petrol over oil.
> 
> But car buying isn't all about dispassionate numbers. Do many VR6 owners wish they had gotten a TDI instead? Probably a significant number. But how many TDI owners wish they had bought a VR6 instead? I suspect not many. Diesel owners in general are a pretty happy lot. For me, the VR6 is just fine. I average about 20 MPG overall in mixed driving and that is pretty good for an SUV, particularly one as good as the Touareg. And it is a very good vehicle, period. Diesel or gas.


 Thanks for the reply -- most of the boards have some pretty passionate TDI fans so I'm mostly hearing from them; big consensus appears to be if one were to put major miles on it, the TDI (due to engine longevity and better MPG) would be the way to go but as I only have ~25K on my '09 Routan I'd consider that 'low' miles -- would assume the 20 MPG you mention is on premium or are you using mid-grade or regular?; also how many months owned/miles put on? I have my eye on a new '13 VR6 Sport w/navi in the color combo I prefer and would imagine I can get a much better deal on it than a '13 TDI as it already starts out at a lower MSRP, VW has extended the deals on '12's to '13's but not the TDI.


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## Lee_K (Apr 22, 2012)

I use premium when I fill it, but my wife (it's her daily driver) usually puts in mid-grade. Lowest mileage measured with the old fashioned method (miles driven between fill-ups divided by gallons put in) is 16.7. That was with my wife tooling the seven miles back and forth to work. Best mileage was 24 MPG during an all-highway trip to Chicago. It's six months old and has 4500 miles on it now. 

One thing that caught my eye about the Edmunds numbers was the huge depreciation in the first year for the TDI versus the VR6. $11,100 vs. $5900. That doesn't look right to me. Second through fifth year depreciations are similar. Why so high in the first year for a diesel? Do Passat, Jetta, and Golf diesels have similar discrepancies over their gasoline variants? I think someone at Edmunds may have made a mistake.


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

Lee_K said:


> I use premium when I fill it, but my wife (it's her daily driver) usually puts in mid-grade. Lowest mileage measured with the old fashioned method (miles driven between fill-ups divided by gallons put in) is 16.7. That was with my wife tooling the seven miles back and forth to work. Best mileage was 24 MPG during an all-highway trip to Chicago. It's six months old and has 4500 miles on it now.
> 
> One thing that caught my eye about the Edmunds numbers was the huge depreciation in the first year for the TDI versus the VR6. $11,100 vs. $5900. That doesn't look right to me. Second through fifth year depreciations are similar. Why so high in the first year for a diesel? Do Passat, Jetta, and Golf diesels have similar discrepancies over their gasoline variants? I think someone at Edmunds may have made a mistake.


 Thanks for the additional stats -- actually a bit above what I expected; it's funny but my wife ALSO has just a 7 mile R/T commute (mine is 30 miles R/T) so when she does drive the Routan only, that one drops to about 14 MPG -- with me I get 16.6 with it but close to 27 on long trips (using mid-grade) so we almost always switch cars during the week so it gets longer runs with me. As far as the edmunds numbers; I checked for the TDI/gasser Jetta Sport Wagon and 4-door sedan for '12's and the TDI Wagon was much closer to its gasser twin but lost about $1K more over 5 years; on the sedan side, the TDI had about $500 less depreciation over 5 years. I think part of the difference you're seeing for the Touareg models is that the VR6 typically get discounted initially but the TDI doesn't (look at the MSRP numbers versus total cash price) so that accounts for less depreciation but I'm only guessing; they have forums over there so might be worth posting something but not sure if an edmunds staff member who creates these would answer on their methodology other than what they've already indicated.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

early74B said:


> ......In comparison to these annual fuel costs for instance, one of our commuter cars is a Nissan LEAF which runs on electricity only at .066 cents/kWh (flat rate) and typically gets 4.5 miles per kWh so 12,500 miles would cost $183.33 in electricity versus $2,267.05 for a TDI at 22 MPG and $3.99/gal. -- it doesn't have the utility or room of the Touareg of course but shows you really how much on paper you're paying to get back and forth to work.


 
My wild guess is that you used this example to make a point? right? 

Let me make a point... 

Let's take the Touareg TDI and the Nissan Leaf and slam the 4000 lbs trailer behind each and tow 1100 miles over the mountain pass, say, from Kansas City to Salt Lake City and go over the Rockies through Eisenhower tunnel at elevation of 12,000 ft. If that wasn't enough then lets make it little bit more challenging and do the trip when Rockies have bad snow blizzard. 

I do such trip few times a year during the summer and winter and I have my reasons not to choose Dodge Ram 2500 Megacab with 6.7L Cummins Diesel (I had one few years back) nor Toyota highlander nor Nissan Leaf. 

You also pointed out that by your work and you being involved with budgeting, you crunch the numbers and analyze things. In such case the used example is more like 18-wheeler versus bicycle than reasonable comparison between vehicles with equal engine size, driveline and interior volume. 

We just did 1550 miles oneway haul in 26 hours from KC to Los Angeles, I flew back for work and wife and kiddo stays in LA, I will fly back to LA for Xmas and new year and after all these miles we have driven, I know we would not do such trip in Leaf or any other that size car. 

Solely from going to work and back standpoint, then rather have Leaf or any other small hybrid or even Golf TDI (gets +40 mpg) and you will get far lower mileage cost.


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## rinaic (Mar 23, 2004)

I was close to pulling a trigger on the V6 FSI because I wasn't sure the TDI justified the value. 
(Premium Diesel spread was $0.20 when purchased, now $0.33) 

I then looked at real-world mileage people were reporting. 
First and foremost from two other FSI owners in our family were getting 16 (2012 normal driver) and 17 (2010 conservative driver) long term. 
Plus the opinion of the 2012 FSI Lux family member who said that they would get the TDI if they had to do it again and 2010 member that also said the TDI was better to drive. 

I ended up going for the TDI and am very happy and think it was the right decision for me. 

So far just 700 miles. 500 around town and 200 highway. 
22mpg combined 
180m round trip (160m hwy, 20 town), I got 24.1 at average 80mph and 27.7 at average 67mph. 

It's been too busy for me to do all the driving I want, but I can't wait to get back out on the open road and rack up some more highway miles. 

:thumbup: my vote is for TDI


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

rinaic said:


> I was close to pulling a trigger on the V6 FSI because I wasn't sure the TDI justified the value.
> (Premium Diesel spread was $0.20 when purchased, now $0.33)
> 
> I then looked at real-world mileage people were reporting.
> ...


 Like I said earlier ... T-reg TDI owner's are passionate ... the 2010 TDI's had the 6 speed auto's (rated 18/25) ; starting in 2011 they went to an 8-speed and the 2013's are now rated 20/29 but as always, mileage will vary by driver, terrain, etc.; no question that at sticker, the TDI's better mileage when compared to the VR6 gasser appears to be worth it BUT, when you try to negotiate at the dealer or otherwise the price you're paying for a brand new 2013 TDI or VR6 the difference is significantly greater out-the-door so my 'point' is, just know as much as you can and decide from there IF you want any Touareg and what it will cost you. 

Using the example I gave above (12,500 miles/year; $3.99 and 22 MPG on the TDI versus $3.79 and 18 MPG on the gasser) you 'save' $364.90 a year so at MSRP base TDI vs VR6 it would take 9.6 years or 120K miles to break even ($3,500 difference) but at discount -- TMV for base TDI is $46,099, VR6 is $40,558 it would take 15.2 years or 189,812 miles. 

This is the same 'argument' that occurs with basically any form of transportation -- and all the factors can change, perhaps some consider renting (if it's even possible) for the few times they need something bigger than normal but it's an opportunity and convenience cost depending on the person and situation, that's all ... as far as the last post on towing, I think that both (at least the 2013's) are rated for 7,700 LBS. so if you still drove the 12,500 miles annually it might vary a bit but with the majority of it being while you're not, you're not 'saving' much on fuel between the two but perhaps a concern would be over the longevity of the engine which no question favors the TDI.


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## kleinbus (Sep 9, 2008)

As long as diesel fuel here in US is more expensive than premium gas, between the Touareg V6 gasser and V6 diesel, the gasser is cheaper and getting TDI is driven by other reasons. 

I got my first gasser when I moved to US so I'm long term German made TDI user (Audi, BMW, MB, VW cars and vans back in Europe) and previous before T-reg was Audi Q5 3.2 Quattro. Awesome car and loved carving the road down from Rockies while following the Colorado river and heading to Utah. Snow blizzard with dedicated winter tires was "bring it on" and after all that pleasure I still rather drive TDI. 
As Q5 TDI is not imported to US, after 70k miles in 3 years, the Q5 was replaced with Touareg TDI. 

It's your money so like your better half said, get one you like, drive the heck out of it and report back how you like it....


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

*Search is over ...*

Probably a bit more interesting is the story over on the Routan forum on the trade-in towards another VW so I'll post more specifics over there but last night I closed a better deal than I expected on a '13 VW Touareg VR6 Sport with/navi. Here is a quick garage photo -- very overcast today but will share a few others when the sun comes out -- it's Night Blue Metallic w/ Cornsilk Beige interior.










My Routan was acting up again (more details over on that forum) so kind of re-doubled my efforts to finalize a decision on its replacement. So by now I've test driven a BMW X3, Lexus RX350, Toyota Highlander Hybrid Ltd., Audi Q7, Ford C-Max Hybrid and yesterday afternoon took out the new '13 Acura RDX, checked out a leftover '12 Acura MDX as well as early on drove a '13 Touareg TDI Sport as mentioned here. I'm looking at the what's out there for purchase price numbers, already have my appraisal from Carmax for the Routan and am thisclose to 'settling' for the new RDX as it has most of what I want and comes in at about my total target price with the tech package -- these are brand new so not much flex on discount off MSRP; perhaps $800. 

So after the test drive, I decide to get one last car wash for the Routan to look its best (free at the VW dealer) and drive back over to the Acura dealer to start the negotiations --- I run into the VW rep I've been working with as you simply walk in the dealership and give your keys to reception for the wash and he asks how my car search is going, I like these guys as no pressure at all, mention that while I really like the Touareg it's a bit outside what I want to spend and mention my 'target' cash with trade-in total; we sat for a few minutes while waiting for the car to get washed and he mentions that his used car mgr. is away but will be back Monday and agrees with me that VW may want a car they've sold as well as a repeat customer, etc., etc. -- the car is ready so I thank him again and leave it at that. 

I head home, finish towel wiping the car down, give a quick interior wipe down and start heading over to Acura --- next thing you know my cell rings in the car, don't recognize the number but take the call and it's the VW rep saying that while we were talking, they had a used car customer who saw my red Routan which it turns out is a fairly rare color as VW skipped offering it a few years and asked me about the miles on it, etc. and their sales mgr. wondered if I could come back for them and her to take a closer look --- so I literally turn around and head back. Longer story shorter -- while doing the appraisal, I take my preferred color choice in the VR6 out for a test drive and we close the deal -- dealer sold two cars that day! So with a grand total difference (trade + cash) of around $300 more than the RDX w/tech pkg. I have a car that I really wanted versus settling for something else. The RDX was nice, but nowhere near the level of refinement and quality of the Touareg which was more comparable to the MDX but didn't need that 3rd row seat; with the relatively low miles I put on these the TDI just wasn't the right choice for me, could be down the road but not for at least the next 3 years or more.

Last comment and perhaps others know about this already, VW now has concierge service for Touareg's (only for T-Reg's currently) where they drop off a VW loaner and pick up your Touareg and then return it and pick-up the loaner at your convenience -- talk about luxury car service! Seems that VW wants to play with Lexus, etc. and of course the first 3 years of free maintenance starts up again for me so this is great all around. Although they had a 'specialist' spend about 30 minutes with me on the car I need to brush up on the manual to check out the other stuff --- right off the bat one of the best features is the TPMS read out on the dash showing each tire's pressure; not elsewhere offered on other makes unless you go to the top trim level and sometimes not offered at all -- this was annoying with other cars I've owned as the warning would go off but you wouldn't know which tire as well as no quick check to avoid it, etc. Phone pairing and GPS works well as well as the rear camera, this is great!!! and the fun is just starting ...


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## Lee_K (Apr 22, 2012)

Congratulations, early74b! I hope you have a great experience with the T-reg.

My observations after six months of ownership:

Likes: The Cornsilk interior is really sharp, although blue jeans tend to stain the seat cushions. I clean the vinyl with 409 and that works pretty well. If I didn't know it was vinyl, I would be hard pressed to tell that it isn't leather. I traded in a 328I for the Touareg and the Boston leather in the BMW doesn't feel fundamentally different than the VW vinyl. I don't know if your vehicle has the chocolate brown steering wheel and dashboard top, but it looks classy in my black VR6. The truck handles remarkably well and feels right at home on a curvy mountain road. The seats are comfortable with a nice upright seating position and the ride is smooth and quiet. The nav system is intuitive to use and has some nice features. The eight speed transmission is really tuned nicely with smooth shifts and it will readily kick down to a lower gear if more power is needed.

Wishes: I wish the Sport version had memory seat settings. Switching driving duties between my five foot tall wife and six foot three tall me requires quite a bit of adjusting. I also would like to have had power lumbar support. And the complaints about the mediocre sound system are warranted. It's too bad VW didn't offer Dynaudio at this price point. 

Finally, getting used to $80 to $90 fill ups takes a little while. Fortunately, the range is sufficient that fill ups don't come too often. All in all I am very pleased with my VR6 Sport and hope you are too.

Welcome to the Touareg club!


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## OsirisTDI (Jul 2, 2007)

Cheers, on the new Touareg!

I've got no complaints about my T-Reg after 5 months/11k miles. The truck is worth every dime. Recently, the local VW dealer held a "Shop Day". They were closed to regular appointments. Then, All of the service bays, tools, service techs & parts were on-hand to assist you to do anything to your VW that could be done that day. I was able to complete the 10k mile service with the VW Touareg tech, after I saw what is underneath the truck, the service expert showed me numerous build/design points about the Touareg, the thing is a tank.


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## Boosted2003! (Mar 10, 2009)

early74B said:


> Probably a bit more interesting is the story over on the Routan forum on the trade-in towards another VW so I'll post more specifics over there but last night I closed a better deal than I expected on a '13 VW Touareg VR6 Sport with/navi. Here is a quick garage photo -- very overcast today but will share a few others when the sun comes out -- it's Night Blue Metallic w/ Cornsilk Beige interior.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't blame you on the going with the VR6. I was looking at recent fuel prices here in Cincinnati, Ohio and Prem fuel is about $3.19 and Diesel is like $3.90-3.99.


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

*Saw a $1 per gallon difference here in Chicago ...*

between regular and diesel -- $3.19 and $4.19 but typically about .20 cents between premium and diesel. The one thing I'm already enjoying with this truck is how large a fuel tank it has ... at delivery the gauges said I had 595 miles range until empty !! Now it shows 215 miles after 272 miles driven, display is showing an average of 22 MPG which for something not broken in is already 6 MPG better than the car it replaced. Once again, not a TDI but I think the routes I'm taking and the 8-speed trans really helps. Looks like my first long trip won't be until late February (at least a 2,400 mile R/T) so looking forward to how it does and of course varying speeds for the break-in period until then.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Nothing wrong with a V6. The diesel not only has better mileage but way better torque. Diesel around me is higher than gas in the winter but not in summer. The premium you pay for diesel gas and the in the price if the vehicle is a wash in year three on average. I don't tow but do drive 60% highway and I'm averaging over 26mpg. I'm at 10 months and 16,100 miles. Damn nice ride.


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## early74B (Feb 18, 2009)

*Topped off this morning ...*

as we're possibly expecting some messy snow, etc. on Thursday; love that gas door is locked with the car's key (no extra mechanical switch) and gas cap 'catch' on the gas door itself ... anyway, it took close to 17 gallons, decided to use premium at $3.63 (BP 93 octane); regular was $3.38 but diesel was still at $3.99 so .36 cent difference. 

As I found when I drove that '98 New Beetle TDI, diesel prices are slower to respond to swings in gas prices; either way, when gas prices are going up, diesel will remain at whatever the last price was longer and vice versa. This top up ended up being 21.9 MPG so with your TDI at 26 the difference (using what I can get it locally at $3.99) for this tankful would be $67.83 for 442 miles of range (26 X 17) versus the $61.71 for 372.3 miles I paid (21.9 X 17) so .1657/mile for me to .1534/mile for you -- or .0122 savings; at the 10K/year average miles I'm expecting I'll drive that's only $122/year fuel savings --- of course gas and diesel prices will continue to fluctuate with the seasons, etc. but with my driving habits, etc. I'm even more convinced that again, at least for me I feel most comfortable with the VR6 vs. the TDI for the next 3 years. 

That New Beetle TDI was a totally different story --- we drove it quite a lot more, was typically getting at least the mid 40's MPG and on long trips fluctuated between 49.5 and 50.5 and that was averaging about 70 to 75 MPH. The 'regular' New Beetle back then was getting 20/27 MPG ... we kept our TDI for 8 years and probably got a bit more than $3K for the trade-in than a regular gas version --- I'm not so sure I'll keep my Touareg that long, just more hesitant after that whole free maintenance and warranty is in effect with all the electronics, etc. 

I think the Touareg TDI by far is a much better choice than the gas VR6 for towing and longer distance highway cruising than just 10K per year despite the minor savings as well as it's just a lot of fun to drive but you won't 'lose' much of that with the VR6; also despite any extra maintenance cost, the TDI engine will last much longer without needing any major overhaul work after the warranty expires as evidenced by those with much older TDI models still running strong ... it's great that VW offers us both.


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## fincher (Jan 5, 2004)

Since you only drive around 10k per year and not much highway, the V6 is better for you. Last summer, diesel was $0.20-0.25 less than regular gas. We in the Chicago area get high gas prices in the summer. Looking forward to a messy Thursday! Enjoy!


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