# Fitting V10 front brakes on V6 TDI?



## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi everyone,
Does anybody know if it is possible to fit the 8 piston front callipers on a 3.0 V6 TDI? 
Does it require the replacement of major parts as the wheel bearing housings or would it be a straight swap?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

I think you'd need a new a new suspension upright as the ATE brakes on the V6 have sliding calipers compared to the fixed Brembo calipers.

Quite honestly, the Brembo brakes only make a difference when travelling at speeds that you never get to in the UK. The pads and discs are also more expensive.

Harry


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## koliberk (Mar 10, 2012)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi everyone,
> Does anybody know if it is possible to fit the 8 piston front callipers on a 3.0 V6 TDI?
> Does it require the replacement of major parts as the wheel bearing housings or would it be a straight swap?
> Thanks in advance for your input.
> ...


try to fit them from Tuareg 6 Piston Caliper brembo brakes Touareg

Painted Calipers V6 and V10 - photos

Apparently you can fit in Phaeton V6 TDI calipers from A8 3.0 TDI, so why not from V10 in V6.
They suppose to have identical suspension... Just need to compare both and do some measurements.



Prince Ludwig said:


> Quite honestly, the Brembo brakes only make a difference when travelling at speeds that you never get to in the UK.
> Harry


It's not only high speed, you can loose your brakes at low speed as well, many times braking and overheating discs and pads.

It is really easy here in UK to go more than 150 mph, M40 or M1 ....


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi,
What really concerns me is whether the V10 calipers can be bolted straight away on the wheel bearing housing or suspension upright, due to the fix caliper configuration of the V10 vs. floating type of the V6 TDI.
Some audi A8, not sure whether those were S8, featured 385mm front disc brakes with the same calipers as those used by Phaetons, that is 2FNR42. Perhaps those could be fitted but it is quite likely that the brake caliper carrier had to be replaced too.

Gabriel


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

koliberk said:


> It is really easy here in UK to go more than 150 mph, M40 or M1 ....


Except the V6 won't achieve 150 mph unless you are travelling downhill with a tailwind.

Not to mention how long you would be without a driving licence if you tried and were caught! The left hand battery would be dead for certain when you next went for a drive!

Stu


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Hi,
> What really concerns me is whether the V10 calipers can be bolted straight away on the wheel bearing housing or suspension upright, due to the fix caliper configuration of the V10 vs. floating type of the V6 TDI.
> Some audi A8, not sure whether those were S8, featured 385mm front disc brakes with the same calipers as those used by Phaetons, that is 2FNR42. Perhaps those could be fitted but it is quite likely that the brake caliper carrier had to be replaced too.
> 
> Gabriel


Gabriel,

I can't remember if you had bigger wheels on yours but remember that the big brakes will only fit under 18" minimum rims. Certain suspension components are unique to the V10 also. I can't remember exactly which but I assume its due to weight and torque.

Stu


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

Looking at the Brembo calipers it looks like it might be a straight fit onto the suspension upright (assuming the bolts are equally spaced).

The big brakes will fit under 18"+ wheels but not under 17".

Harry


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## koliberk (Mar 10, 2012)

EnglishPhaeton said:


> Except the V6 won't achieve 150 mph unless you are travelling downhill with a tailwind.
> Stu


Stu, you'd be surprised what good V6 can do. It is not really hard to get to 155 with my one  
On my next trip to Germany, I will make you a YouTube video :laugh:


There is rumor, that Audi's RS6 brembo calipers fit VW. Still need to check if it can be bolted straight away on the wheel bearing housing.

Some interesting links:
Bilstein Suspension + Phaeton Brake Cooling Upgrade Install on RS6
RS6 Calipers and SS brake lines..only 15k miles!
A6 and Phaeton brembo upgrade kit


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Hi,

Stu:
I have a set of 18" wheels that I use in spring and summer time so that would not be an issue. Now that you mentioned weight I made some research a while ago and came across the following figures for engine weights:
3.0 V6 TDI: 220kg 
4.2 V8: 200kg
6.0 W12: 245kg
5.0 V10 TDI: N/A. So if anyone is aware of it, please enligthen me .

Harry:
I agree with you, but we also have to take into account the lateral displacement of the caliper with respect to the brake disc. And also Touaregs, AFAIK, had three different sets of six piston calipers for 330mm, 368mm and 350mm discs.

Koli,
ON the post RS6 Calipers and SS brake lines..only 15k miles! you can see that there is a caliper carrier bolted onto the caliper. Thas is the very part that I would like to know whether V10 Phaetons feature or not.
In case they did, it would be very easy to fit the V10 calipers I have sourced as it would be a matter of ordering that part at my VW dealer.

Thanks very much for your input guys :thumbup:. 

Gabriel


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## Prince Ludwig (Mar 24, 2007)

> Harry:
> I agree with you, but we also have to take into account the lateral displacement of the caliper with respect to the brake disc. And also Touaregs, AFAIK, had three different sets of six piston calipers for 330mm, 368mm and 350mm discs.


Although it's definitely not a inviolable rule, VW's parts sharing would make me think they'd prefer to have a single design of suspension upright and different brake calipers depending on application. I haven't got access to ETKA at the moment so will have a look when I get home.

Harry


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## koliberk (Mar 10, 2012)

Gabs08PHTN said:


> Koli,
> ON the post RS6 Calipers and SS brake lines..only 15k miles! you can see that there is a caliper carrier bolted onto the caliper. Thas is the very part that I would like to know whether V10 Phaetons feature or not.
> In case they did, it would be very easy to fit the V10 calipers I have sourced as it would be a matter of ordering that part at my VW dealer.
> 
> Gabriel




















You right, but lets wait for Harry to check this in ETKA. BTW thanks Harry.

Thomas


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Found these random photos of my V10 front calipers, but I don't suppose they help much.

Chris


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Many thanks for the pics Chris! Much appreciated.
However it is still a little bit unclear to me whether the calipers bolt onto the suspension upright or to a caliper carrier.
If someone had a picture taken from the inside of the caliper that would be great 
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## Paximus (Aug 26, 2011)

Does this help? It's for the 365 x 34 disk, the largest.

Chris










image (c) Volkswagen


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes indeed Chirs.
Now it is clear that the V10 calipers bolt onto the suspension upright without any caliper carrier in between.
So, I am afraid that I might have to say good bye to the V10 caliper project...  Or perhaps I should have to start thinking about buying a V10 
Cheers.

Gabriel


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Checked the parts catalogue. The suspension upright (or wheel bearing housing as it is called by VW) is different between the brake types. 17" brakes use 4E0 407 253 R, 18" uses 3D0 407 253 AC. There are even different versions of the stabilizer bars for different engines. Otherwise the front suspension components are the same.

The 17" brakes are really not that impotent, either!  In fact they are used by Audi in various models, _from small-engined 2004-2011 Audi A6's to 2003-2010 Audi A8 W12 _(correction: it is just the brake disc which is interchangeable with these). And as you know, the US Phaetons never got the eight-piston brakes, not even the W12.

The rear brakes _are the same in all Phaeton models_ (correction: no, there's the 18" variant available also for the rear) and are also used in Audi A8 of the same vintage, even including the S8. 

As the brakes are not unique for Phaeton, it is pretty easy to source aftermarket brake parts. I just bought new brake discs for all four corners. They are made by Zimmermann, a pretty reputable aftermarket supplier. Cost was about half of the OEM.

Jouko


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## EnglishPhaeton (Dec 6, 2010)

jkuisma said:


> Checked the parts catalogue. The suspension upright (or wheel bearing housing as it is called by VW) is different between the brake types. 17" brakes use 4E0 407 253 R, 18" uses 3D0 407 253 AC. There are even different versions of the stabilizer bars for different engines. Otherwise the front suspension components are the same.
> 
> The 17" brakes are really not that impotent, either!  In fact they are used by Audi in various models, from small-engined 2004-2011 Audi A6's to 2003-2010 Audi A8 W12 (!). And as you know, the US Phaetons never got the eight-piston brakes, not even the W12.
> 
> ...


Jouko,

just a note, there are two different rear disc sizes that I know about for the V10. 310mm and 335mm (mine are both 335mm).

Also the front lower wishbone (4E0407293F) is NOT intended for V10 (according to my source anyway)

Regards
Stu


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## Gabs08PHTN (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks Jouko. 
Yesterday I researched a bit onto the A8 brake system set up and noticed that six piston calipers are used for the ceramic brakes at the front, and these calipers bolt onto a caliper carrier, not straight onto the suspension uprignt.

I am happy with the braking behaviour of the original brakes, it is only that I sourced a set of very cheap V10 front calipers.

My brother's 2007 3.0 TDI A6 Quattro sportline features 347mm front brake discs but the caliper is not the same, it is a single piston compared to the two piston set up used in Phaetons and A8s.

Both the S6 and S8 feature 385mm front discs with the same two piston calipers used in Phaetons. So that could be a route for improvement, in case we wanted tu upgrade the front brake systems of our Phaetons, as it is quite likely that we would only have to purchase the discs and the caliper carriers.

Gabriel


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## jkuisma (Nov 23, 2009)

Gabriel and Stu, thanks for corrections! I did not do much thinking when I wrote the post.



> My brother's 2007 3.0 TDI A6 Quattro sportline features 347mm front brake discs but the caliper is not the same, it is a single piston compared to the two piston set up used in Phaetons and A8s.


True. I got confused as the brake discs are interchangeable. Calipers are not.



> just a note, there are two different rear disc sizes that I know about for the V10. 310mm and 335mm (mine are both 335mm).


This is correct!



> Also the front lower wishbone (4E0407293F) is NOT intended for V10 (according to my source anyway)


Possible, but I can't find this part? In my catalogue the lower arms are 4E0407693N (left) and 4E0407151K and they are for all models.



> I sourced a set of very cheap V10 front calipers.


I dare to claim that you should be able to fit them by changing the wheel bearing housings / suspension uprights with the "V10" part (3D0 407 253 AC). They cost about 300 euros each new from VW.

By the way, here are the suspension parts, though the page is in Russian.

Jouko


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