# tell me why i shouldnt get a crank trigger wheel/sensor



## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

so my distributor has been leaking since i got the motor swapped into my mk3
and it leaks a LOT

i ordered a new distributor from GAP and it hasnt worked. i tried it, my dad tried it, and my megasquirt tuner tried it. none of us can get it timed right, but if i put the old one back in (the leaky one) it will time right up with ease.

no matter what weve tried this happens.

so ive decided to look at going distributorless.
the 034 16v trigger kit looks decent

i have a serp conversion (the PO did it so i dont know what pulley it is) so im not sure if i need the aba crank pulley option

with the coil, the kit, and the dist blockoff all from 034 it totals $435
a new dist costs 160 from GAP

i have the GAP one and it doesnt work

is there any reason i should/should not go with the trigger wheel/coil setup?
is tuning easier/harder with the coil?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

I personally prefer a missing tooth wheel for rpm with megasquirt. The 034 kit is nice but a lot of jack. I have custom 36-1 tooth wheels designed as a bolt on between the crankshaft sprocket and crank pulley for older (pre ABA) VW watercooled 4 cylinder engines. That and a 3.0L or 4.0L SOHC Ford crankshaft position sensor (2 different styles both work great) and fabbed up bracket for the sensor and I'm in business for about $75. If I choose to go waste spark with it I use a modified GM 2.2L coilpack/module assembly from the junkyard $20-40 and an hour to modify it.


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

Don't forget you'll need to mod your MS for waste spark.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

very interesting. so where did you get this custom trigger wheel?
i would love to build one for 75bones. hell, even under 200 would be nice as the 034 one is 400+ for the whole setup...

is it hard to mod the MS for wated spark?
im not quite sure what that means

is there any benefit of a trigger wheel setup vs a distributor?


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

rocklizzard91 said:


> very interesting. so where did you get this custom trigger wheel?
> i would love to build one for 75bones. hell, even under 200 would be nice as the 034 one is 400+ for the whole setup...
> 
> is it hard to mod the MS for wated spark?
> ...


I had a bunch made on a CNC laser cutter. They are for sale, $35 each + shipping.

When you run waste spark you need a spark output for every 2 cylinders. So for a 4 cylinder you need 2 spark outputs. I use 2 BIP373 IGBTs to direct fire my coils.

A trigger wheel/waste spark ignition is MUCH more accurate than a dizzy. Like usually .25 degress or better.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

Prof315 said:


> I had a bunch made on a CNC laser cutter. They are for sale, $35 each + shipping.
> 
> When you run waste spark you need a spark output for every 2 cylinders. So for a 4 cylinder you need 2 spark outputs. I use 2 BIP373 IGBTs to direct fire my coils.
> 
> A trigger wheel/waste spark ignition is MUCH more accurate than a dizzy. Like usually .25 degress or better.


hmmm i may be interested in this.
do you sell the bracket you used to hold the sensor too?


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## still_a_G (Jun 23, 2008)

I ran 36-1 wheel welded to the back side of my G60 crank pulley. Spark was controlled by MS2 and went through the distributor. I could spin that distributor all day long and the timing would remain locked on to what it was set through MS and interpreted by the missing tooth wheel. Basically the distributor position is irrelevant that way. Obviously if I turned it enough the rotor simply couldn't reach the terminals anymore and die.


Hardest part was finding a way to balance it after welding. I used a static method with custom tooling.


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

while the 034 kit is a nice thing when you don't know how to fab, it was a pain to install, and luckily we only ran 1 rally with it so we never had to service it. If you need a bolt on kit, it is a good option, but if you can i would recommend fabbing something up :thumbup:

on that note, the crank trigger setup is awesome, the rpm signal is rock solid compared to the distributor. seems a little easier to get a solid idle too


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

rocklizzard91 said:


> hmmm i may be interested in this.
> do you sell the bracket you used to hold the sensor too?


I don't in general, all you really need is a piece of 1/8" flat aluminum about 3x4" and bolts, nuts and washers. But I could make one up to go with the wheel I suppose.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

Prof315 said:


> I don't in general, all you really need is a piece of 1/8" flat aluminum about 3x4" and bolts, nuts and washers. But I could make one up to go with the wheel I suppose.


That would be awesome. I have no way to fab anything up.
Ill pay you for the bracket.
You mentioned its for pre-aba motors. Will it be a bolt on item for my 9a with a serp conversion?

Also thanks everyone for your insight. Hopefully the jetta will be reliable again after this.
How hard is it to tune timing with a setup like this?


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## -RalleyTuned- (Nov 17, 2008)

It takes a little math work to get the trigger wheel configured correctly, but after that it is no different than tuning with the dist.


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

-RalleyTuned- said:


> It takes a little math work to get the trigger wheel configured correctly, but after that it is no different than tuning with the dist.


yup, and as long as youre not doing coil on plug you can easily check your timing against the flywheel with a light - so you can make sure you did the math right :beer:


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

ValveCoverGasket said:


> yup, and as long as youre not doing coil on plug you can easily check your timing against the flywheel with a light - so you can make sure you did the math right :beer:


awesome!
sounds so much easier than a dist! why didnt i do this when i did my swap


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

uh oh.
i was just quickly browsing through megamanual and im not sure i can use a trigger wheel
i have MS-1 and the v3 board.

i think i saw that only ms-2 can run wasted spark and allow to use the trigger wheel

am i wrong?


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

no youre fine, youve got a v3 board


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

rocklizzard91 said:


> That would be awesome. I have no way to fab anything up.
> Ill pay you for the bracket.
> You mentioned its for pre-aba motors. Will it be a bolt on item for my 9a with a serp conversion?


 What are you using for a crankshaft pulley?


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

Prof315 said:


> What are you using for a crankshaft pulley?


 Im not sure, it came on the motor. I can post a pic


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## still_a_G (Jun 23, 2008)

You don't have to do wasted spark if you have a distributor that doesn't leak. The dist. timing doesn't have to be accurate at all with the missing tooth wheel. Base timing is going to be completely dependent on configuration settings and wheel mount accurance. You can save money on a new coil and wires anyways.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

still_a_G said:


> You don't have to do wasted spark if you have a distributor that doesn't leak. The dist. timing doesn't have to be accurate at all with the missing tooth wheel. Base timing is going to be completely dependent on configuration settings and wheel mount accurance. You can save money on a new coil and wires anyways.


 Im not site what your trying to say. If i had a distributor that didn't leak,i would just keep it running the distributor. Im looking to go distributorless and use a blockoff plate


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## Prof315 (Jan 5, 2009)

rocklizzard91 said:


> Im not sure, it came on the motor. I can post a pic


 that should work


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## still_a_G (Jun 23, 2008)

rocklizzard91 said:


> Im not site what your trying to say. If i had a distributor that didn't leak,i would just keep it running the distributor. Im looking to go distributorless and use a blockoff plate


 Well in your original post you say you bought a new distributor that doesn't leak, but it doesn't time right. What I'm trying to say is that the distributor doesn't have to be timed right to transfer spark energy. The timing will all be interpreted at the crank with the missing tooth wheel. The distributor could be 30 degrees off and you'd still get spark where you want it.


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## rocklizzard91 (Dec 18, 2007)

still_a_G said:


> Well in your original post you say you bought a new distributor that doesn't leak, but it doesn't time right. What I'm trying to say is that the distributor doesn't have to be timed right to transfer spark energy. The timing will all be interpreted at the crank with the missing tooth wheel. The distributor could be 30 degrees off and you'd still get spark where you want it.


 Oh! I get what your saying. 
I suppose that could Work 


I got some pics if my crank pulley. Ill post them up soon


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## Salsa GTI (Aug 29, 2000)

still_a_G said:


> Well in your original post you say you bought a new distributor that doesn't leak, but it doesn't time right. What I'm trying to say is that the distributor doesn't have to be timed right to transfer spark energy. The timing will all be interpreted at the crank with the missing tooth wheel. The distributor could be 30 degrees off and you'd still get spark where you want it.


 Well if you go through the trouble to convert to crank trigger....wire it for powered coil output as well and go wasted spark....Dizzys and carbs are both in the same trash bin arround my place... 
Dizzys are just a place for spark to get lost on the way to the plugs 
and Carbs are just semi controlled garden hoses spraying into your engine... 

BUt thats just me... 
Buy a missing tooth wheel..make a bracket to hold an ABA sensor or VR6 sensor..Make sure the bracket for the sensor is firmly mounted and thick as hell to ward off vibration and go for it...there is a spread sheet for setting up the trigger wheel settings in megasquirt....and Paul is the man 

PS. to Paul...I finaly got the Evil little yellow car running proper.....damn that little thing:sly:


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## ValveCoverGasket (Mar 20, 2002)

Salsa GTI said:


> Buy a missing tooth wheel..make a bracket to hold an ABA sensor or VR6 sensor..Make sure the bracket for the sensor is firmly mounted and thick as hell to ward off vibration and go for it...there is a spread sheet for setting up the trigger wheel settings in megasquirt....and Paul is the man


 im not a fan of the aftermarket mounted trigger wheels... 
if your block has a wheel in it, id use it, otherwise id run with the distributor rather than adding stuff to your crank pulley. ive done both and much prefer the factory wheel/sensor combos. 

thats just my opinion though. 

and no doubt, paul is the dude :beer:


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## gamblinfool (Sep 28, 2001)

If this will work on a 3A block, I'd be interested. Please PM me where/how to make payment. 

Thanks, Jeff


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