# MKIV...still clunks after replacing most of suspension



## 01TornadoWolf (Jun 18, 2009)

Feel free to flame me for creating another 'my front end clunks, help' thread but I really don't know where to look after replacing a lot of front suspension components.
When I bought the car the PO had H&R sport springs with stock spec KYB struts and shocks. I replaced the KYB's with Koni sports on all fours. Both front strut mounts were recently replaced as well. I've also replaced both the front and rear LCA bushings (rears with TT/R32 bushings).
I was not just throwing these parts in there hoping for a fix, they were all needed regardless of the clunking suspension. After replacing all of these parts I still have a clunk at both low and high speeds when going over decently sized bumps. When going over smaller bumps there is absolutely no noise.
The car's got about 100k miles on the odo btw. The front sway bar bushings and end links were probably the next things on the list to replace but the sway bar feels tight and doesn't seem to move when I yank on this (not sure if that's an adequate test or not).
Any ideas on what else I should check??
Edit: I should note it doesn't appear to matter if the wheel is straight or turned.


_Modified by 01TornadoWolf at 4:26 PM 3-29-2010_


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## BoostedDubVR6T420 (Dec 4, 2009)

Are the bolts on your subframe tight?


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## animaniac (May 26, 2005)

*Re: (BoostedDubVR6T420)*

Possibly the anti roll bar bushes i'm getting a few clunks on mine, although since doing the front wheel bearing it's less clunkier and feels much better handing wise, even though there was half a mm of play in the bearing.
Don't forget theres alot of weight on those parts, and they will give more when driving than when your trying to move them.


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## kjl92701 (Apr 10, 2003)

*Re: (animaniac)*

Is it a metal on metal clunking noise? I had the same problem as you for a long time, and then i replaced the caliper pin bushings in the front brakes. When going over bumps, the old bushings were flexing and allowing the caliper to move and hit the rotor. Next time you're on a bumpy road, try braking and see if it stops the clunking noise. 
I used the tyrolsport brass ones, but the oem rubber ones will work too.
Kyle


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## 01TornadoWolf (Jun 18, 2009)

*Re: (kjl92701)*

i'm not sure it's metal on metal. possibly more of a thunk than a clunk hahaha lol descriptive i know.
Which subframe bolts are you refering too? I can't upload a pic from the bently right now but if you have it are you refering to bolts numbered 5 and 18 in pic N40-0296? I'll try and get a pic uploaded later.
I def need to get under there and just check the torque of all the bolts.
I'll have the check the front wheel bearings and the calipers as well.
Thanks!
Edit: Front suspension pic I was referring to:










_Modified by 01TornadoWolf at 9:59 PM 3-30-2010_


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## 01TornadoWolf (Jun 18, 2009)

*Re: (01TornadoWolf)*

also, if i was to replace the sway bar endlinks which ones should I use??
ECSTUNING:
There are three versions of sway bar links.
Metal with secured bolt
Plastic with secured bolt
Plastic with removable boltThe two plastic ones are the same length the metal version is slightly longer.
I believe the stock ones are metal if I remember correctly.
TIA


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## 01TornadoWolf (Jun 18, 2009)

*Re: (01TornadoWolf)*

spoke with ECSTuning today and they recommended I use the plastic end links from FEQ so that answers my question.
i did hit the brakes last night while going over a bump and still heard the clunk/thunk noise so that may eliminate the caliper issue. still need to get under the car and check the bolts though before i replace the sway bar links and bushings.


_Modified by 01TornadoWolf at 1:51 PM 3-31-2010_


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## 01TornadoWolf (Jun 18, 2009)

*Re: (01TornadoWolf)*

BUMP
im not sure if its important but it doesnt appear to matter if i hit a pothole with my left or right tire. the clunk is there either way. im assuming that would imply its a suspension component that connects both sides aka like the sway bar???


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

Bringing this back to the top:thumbup:
I have the same problem :banghead:I have replace all struts bearings and lower arm bushings .
metal sound clunk went I hit line dividers and loud clunk went turning to any side.


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## 03 jetta GLI (Sep 27, 2006)

Seems odd, cause I rebuilt my front end with the HD rebuild kit from MJM and I heard a clunk a week ago but haven't heard one since. Still makes some strange noises going over speed bumps tho. (Probably the sway bar bushings)

Kit consisted of ball joints, tie rod end links, control arm bushings with the TT/R donut bushing, strut tower bushings and VF engineering sway bar end links. And Had new tires installed with an alignment.

I'm trying to figure out where exactly it is coming form. Could be the rear axle beam bushing.:screwy:


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

03 jetta GLI said:


> Seems odd, cause I rebuilt my front end with the HD rebuild kit from MJM and I heard a clunk a week ago but haven't heard one since. Still makes some strange noises going over speed bumps tho. (Probably the sway bar bushings)
> 
> Kit consisted of ball joints, tie rod end links, control arm bushings with the TT/R donut bushing, strut tower bushings and VF engineering sway bar end links. And Had new tires installed with an alignment.
> 
> I'm trying to figure out where exactly it is coming form. Could be the rear axle beam bushing.:screwy:


I have the same kit but I did not install the ball joints or tie rod (there are good. no play) 
on the lower control arm I have the TT donut on the rear and poly bushings in the front.

Will the sway bar make that noise?


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## 03 jetta GLI (Sep 27, 2006)

I dunno if it could be the sway bar but I got a nice clunk backing out of the driveway today.:screwy:

I guess I'll just have to live with it.

Maybe its a loose sub frame bolt or something


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## 03 jetta GLI (Sep 27, 2006)

*Follow up*

Was just under the car and made sure the sub frame bolts were snug.(all four) 
They all were tight and I also double checked that the control arm bolts were torqued to spec. 
I even went topside to make sure the strut bolts were torqued properly. 

Well, once I backed out of the driveway the notorious clunk was still present. :laugh: 

And I'm at stock height!  
I'm almost positive it comes from the strut bushing(although I just replaced both the bushing and bearing). Just a hunch though. 

Anyone source where this noise comes from? 

B.


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

Well 
I found were the metal noise is coming from 
It is the calipers, I need to replace the rubber sleeve that hold the caliper in place. 
and for the clunk sound I am going to disconnect the sway bar and drive around for a little to see if the noise go away. 

W.


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## ~Enigma~ (Jul 8, 2009)

Williams04GTI said:


> Well
> I found were the metal noise is coming from
> It is the calipers, I need to replace the rubber sleeve that hold the caliper in place.
> and for the clunk sound I am going to disconnect the sway bar and drive around for a little to see if the nice go away.
> ...


 I had the same problem, I thought it was suspention related, andi gave up driving. Wit the clunk. When I got my tranny changed out I think they tightend my engine mounts. Haven't had a clunk since.


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## .je (Feb 8, 2003)

I've had that clunk for 2 different reasons: 
The strut bearing was cracked. Replacing it took care of that. It's not difficult to figure out if this is your trouble. Squished strut bushings have never clunked for me. 
The roll bar bushings were sticking, or had shrunk to their old position, leaving gaps. All I did here was spray with white grease to lube and to swell them, and it hasn't clunked in a couple of years. This clunk of course affected both sides, but one side a little more than the other.


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## cheapthrills (Sep 27, 2005)

Forget being flamed man, this thread should be stickied. So many people have or will have this issue for one reason or another including myself. Good information in here!!


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

back to the top.
Today I replace the sway bar bushings and the clunk is not gone.:banghead:
also replace the caliper bushing with Tyrolsport brake caliper stiffening kit and the metal sound is gone :laugh:


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

cheapthrills said:


> Forget being flamed man, this thread should be stickied. So many people have or will have this issue for one reason or another including myself. Good information in here!!


x2


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

~Enigma~ said:


> I had the same problem, I thought it was suspension related, andi gave up driving. Wit the clunk. When I got my tranny changed out I think they tightened my engine mounts. Haven't had a clunk since.


just have my clutch replace and all the mount are tightened to specs and the clunk won't go away


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

Top


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## tonyscaterham (Aug 28, 2010)

Have you checked the Dogbone/Pendulum bolt? son had a similar problem (although more than bumps helped make the noise) and the sump attaching bolt through the Pendulum had sheared.


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

Great thread... I have the dreaded clunk too... it almost sounds like its the sway bar. I've replaced the strut bearings and sway bar bushings. Each time its fine for a few days then the clunk starts again... 

Can someone post a part diagram of said brake pins


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## Chroptus (Nov 2, 2009)

Ive looked up this:


> I finally broke down and called H&R direct.
> 
> *Here's what they said:*
> "This is a common question, we get it multiple times a day." Exactly the problem I describe happens when the tophat is not indexed properly to the vehicle. The hat should be "indexed to the vehicle, not the spring". Apparently there are notches or marks on the hat that should be lined up.


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

Chroptus said:


> Ive looked up this:


Do any body knows were does marks are?
I cant find any on mine.

The only one that I know is the stop were the lower part off the spring seat on the strut


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

top


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## ghent96 (Sep 4, 2009)

You're certain the axle isn't rubbing or hitting on the frame, especially when you hit bumps?


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

not sure about the others, but i am on H&R sport springs... there shouldn't be any rubbing anywhere... :/


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

sounds good said:


> not sure about the others, but i am on H&R sport springs... there shouldn't be any rubbing anywhere... :/


Me too.:thumbup:


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

With the car just parked there, should i be able to easily turn the nut on the top of the strut in the engine bay with a wrench? It feels like it is maybe hand tight... about as tight as you would tighten an oil filter...


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

sounds good said:


> With the car just parked there, should i be able to easily turn the nut on the top of the strut in the engine bay with a wrench? It feels like it is maybe hand tight... about as tight as you would tighten an oil filter...


What are you trying to do?


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

make sure everything is tight and that the strut itself isn't bouncing around... 

I snapped a photo of how it looks... shouldn't that "cap" be tight to the body of the car?


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

sounds good said:


> make sure everything is tight and that the strut itself isn't bouncing around...
> 
> I snapped a photo of how it looks... shouldn't that "cap" be tight to the body of the car?


 Looks like your from strut bushings are shot


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

Williams04GTI said:


> Looks like your from strut bushings are shoot



Thats great news!!!! 

Is there a positive way to confirm/deny this? I can take as many photos as you need...


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

Found this , good information here
http://forums.kilometermagazine.com/showthread.php?5062223-Uneven-ride-height-strut-bushings


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## germancarnut51 (Mar 23, 2008)

sounds good said:


> Thats great news!!!!
> 
> Is there a positive way to confirm/deny this? I can take as many photos as you need...


The strut mounts are shot. You can tell by looking at the gap between the fender and the strut cap. There will always be a gap there (it's part of the design), but ideally it will be 1/4" or less (with new strut mounts). Anything over 3/8" or closer to 1/2" is worn out.

I recommend Meyle HD strut mounts for MKIIIs. I don't know if the same ones are used for MKIVs. They only cost about $11 each, are readily available, and will out last any of the original VW strut mounts.


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

is this the part? NAPA calls it a Strut Bearing Plate.. 

https://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/...905_0275740915&An=599001+102005+50074+2074017


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

yes it is:thumbup:


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

Williams04GTI said:


> yes it is:thumbup:



Thanks for your fast replies... I am glad to finally (hopefully) kill the clunk... 

I swear i bought that part when i ordered the struts and springs... is it possible the installer could have put them in upside down? and if so would they still be useable..? 


anyhow i noticed ECS has a topend rebuild kit for $29, you get 2 mounts, bushings and nuts... NAPA want $34 each for their mounts...


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

don't take chances just get the kit from ECS :beer::beer::beer:


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

please post and let us know it that fix the problem


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

Sure will... 


Having never installed MKIV suspension, does this sound right? 


1) Borrow "special tool" from friend
2) Loosen top nut
3) Remove nut and cup thing
4) Jack up car
5) Remove swaybar bolt from A arm
6) Let A arm drop to expose top of shock
7) Replace old goodies with new ones
8) Reinstall 
9) Switch sides and repeat


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

That might explain the slight rake in my stance....


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## roadbump (Jul 27, 2009)

kjl92701 said:


> Is it a metal on metal clunking noise? I had the same problem as you for a long time, and then i replaced the caliper pin bushings in the front brakes. When going over bumps, the old bushings were flexing and allowing the caliper to move and hit the rotor. Next time you're on a bumpy road, try braking and see if it stops the clunking noise.
> I used the tyrolsport brass ones, but the oem rubber ones will work too.
> Kyle



I was having the same issue. I tried braking on a bumpy road and the noise subsided. I am going to try and do the caliper bushings. :thumbup: Thank you for the idea.


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

They noise i am experiencing sounds like something hitting metal that is tensioned.. if that makes any sense... 

like if you were to tap the sway bar with a hammer, or maybe one of the spring moving around... 

I am sure the pins are inexpensive, and i would image it is a quick swap... i might do bushings and caliper pins at the same time....


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

sounds good said:


> They noise i am experiencing sounds like something hitting metal that is tensioned.. if that makes any sense...
> 
> like if you were to tap the sway bar with a hammer, or maybe one of the spring moving around...
> 
> I am sure the pins are inexpensive, and i would image it is a quick swap... i might do bushings and caliper pins at the same time....


X2
That is what it feels like on my car 
I belive the spring are moving around


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## gtiguy12 (May 22, 2006)

I have a feeling the clunking noise is coming from the top of the strut, caused by the nut that holds the strut bearing down being loose. If you are replacing the upper strut bushing, make sure you check these nuts on both sides.:beer:


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## themitchster359 (Aug 16, 2009)

i agree, you need new front bushings and bearings. also make sure that they are tight on to the shock. that can also cause a "clunking" noise. your caps should be flush with the strut tower.


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## pm5395 (Mar 17, 2009)

Great post. VW`s clunk and squeak. This has been my experience. . .
Swaybar end links squeak a little?. Easy DIY replacement.
Front swaybar bushings squeaks a lot (never clunked for me) pretty easy DIY. pre-treat new bushings withseveral coats of silicone lube to prevent future squeaking. Performance bushings squeak more (i've heard)
Loose subframe bolts cause clunks going over bumps. Easy DIY
Bad ball joints cause clunks turning at low speeds. Moderately easy DIY
Bad strut bearings cause clunks turning at low speeds. I have not done this DIY

once you get all the clunks and squeaks out enjoy the moment :beer:


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

pm5395 said:


> Great post. VW`s clunk and squeak. This has been my experience. . .
> Swaybar end links squeak a little?. Easy DIY replacement.
> Front swaybar bushings squeaks a lot (never clunked for me) pretty easy DIY. pre-treat new bushings withseveral coats of silicone lube to prevent future squeaking. Performance bushings squeak more (i've heard)
> Loose subframe bolts cause clunks going over bumps. Easy DIY
> ...


ok but what happens went you have done all this and you car won't stop clunking?
that is my problem.:banghead::banghead::banghead:


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

kjl92701 said:


> Is it a metal on metal clunking noise? I had the same problem as you for a long time, and then i replaced the caliper pin bushings in the front brakes. When going over bumps, the old bushings were flexing and allowing the caliper to move and hit the rotor. Next time you're on a bumpy road, try braking and see if it stops the clunking noise.
> I used the tyrolsport brass ones, but the oem rubber ones will work too.
> Kyle



I did the "brake test" tonight and noticed the feeling is still there but the sound is defiantly deadened.. maybe ill change the pins too... 


Its hard to believe this stuff goes bad so quickly...

you talking these..
http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_IV--1.8T/Search/Caliper_Pin/ES5418/


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

sounds good said:


> I did the "brake test" tonight and noticed the feeling is still there but the sound is defiantly deadened.. maybe ill change the pins too...
> 
> 
> Its hard to believe this stuff goes bad so quickly...
> ...


Yes but get then at your local Oreilly


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## builtvw (Sep 20, 2009)

i see what your saying by you'd think its the sway bar cause it happens with both right and left front wheels but that could also mean its anything under the hood
- grab hold of your engine and shake it, if it moves a have bad mount(s)...(when engine is cold lol)
-check to make sure you axle bolts are tight (i believe their 10mm triple squares)
-check if your wheel has pal, just grab a hold shake side to side and up and down
-put your front end on jack stands and jack up the control arm and drop it...see if it make the noise
-does it make noise when you just push down on the car itself?


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## .je (Feb 8, 2003)

Williams04GTI said:


> ok but what happens went you have done all this and you car won't stop clunking?
> that is my problem.:banghead::banghead::banghead:


You could do the previously posted recommeded action, which was to try to spray white grease on the bushings. Did you read/try that already?


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## sounds good (Sep 26, 2006)

kjl92701 said:


> I had the same problem as you for a long time, and then i replaced the caliper pin bushings in the front brakes. When going over bumps, the old bushings were flexing and allowing the caliper to move and hit the rotor. Next time you're on a bumpy road, try braking and see if it stops the clunking noise.


 I did the "Brake Test" and the sound went away while braking. I went to NAPA Auto Parts and purchased… 

"Caliper Housing Bolt - Front" Part Number UP 82578W $2.99 (x2) 
"Caliper Bushing Kit - Front" Part Number UP 82197A $8.99 (x1) 
I get a discount, so the total came to $14.07 

I was apprehensive about the whole thing, but the parts were cheap I thought it would be worth a shot… 

I got the wheels of and found this and had to take a quick video… 

http://vimeo.com/26498659 


**UPDATE** 
I did the pass. side then moved on to the drivers side. My drives side caliper is missing the retaining clip… doh…


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## Williams04GTI (Apr 22, 2010)

.je said:


> You could do the previously posted recommeded action, which was to try to spray white grease on the bushings. Did you read/try that already?


 Yes I did read and tryed the grease and it did not fix it.


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## SB_Beetle (Oct 11, 2003)

*Not sure you ever resolved your spacing issue...*



sounds good said:


> make sure everything is tight and that the strut itself isn't bouncing around...
> 
> I snapped a photo of how it looks... shouldn't that "cap" be tight to the body of the car?


I just put H&R Sports on my '04 Beetle and noticed the same gap. I'm pretty sure it is just the difference between the stock spring height and the sport spring height (1/2 inch or so). I went to Kragen/O'Riley and found a pair of steering coupling disc kits ($12.99?). It had one center hole and 4 smaller holes around the perimeter. To make the cap fit I had to drill the center hole so it just touched the outer 4 holes and pressed the cap in. No more gap and no more jolt over bumps :beer::beer:


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## .je (Feb 8, 2003)

I put lowering springs on the car, and those pieces looked like that afterward.

Some time later, I put new strut bushings in, and that gap was gone.
The old ones were compressed 1/4" from the new ones (about what you see in that picture)

Later I put the stock springs back with the used bushings that were already there, and that gap was present again.

That gap arises (no pun) from the compressed bushings, and the tightening of the top nuts, which are normally cranked very well when you re-assemble the strut. The way the strut is designed is pretty strange in this regard, no other car I have seen is made this way.

I'd like also to mention that this was discussed in threads about 10 YEARS AGO and is repeated throughout other threads. :thumbup:


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## SB_Beetle (Oct 11, 2003)

.je said:


> I put lowering springs on the car, and those pieces looked like that afterward.
> 
> Some time later, I put new strut bushings in, and that gap was gone.
> The old ones were compressed 1/4" from the new ones (about what you see in that picture)
> ...


That is :screwy:. Wonder if it's not just the bearing cap being tightened too much over the spring? I'd like to take it apart again and take a look, but even with an air wrench it's a PIA.


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## EugeneDubbin (Aug 31, 2008)

I actually have the same issue with the top gap on the strut mounts, and it's causing a bump as well. Only difference here is, everything is new. New strut mounts/bearings, new koni yellows, shine springs on tt control arms with new ball joints and tie rod ends etc. sub-frame isn't going anywhere either. 

Suggestions?


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## CyBORG128 (Feb 21, 2011)

I have the "thunk" issue. I almost feel like something is shifting. It's most prevalent over the passenger wheel. My strut mounts have less than 300 miles on them, as do my bearding and coilovers. I know one of my tie rods is on the down, and will need replacing soon. Could it be that? Things get worse when I turn, especially hard. Does this describe anyone else's issue?


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## psuvr6 (Mar 31, 2002)

Cyborg, i have the same issue, alot of clunking over smallish bumps, but when i turn hard or turn with speed and there is pressure put on that side, i hear a clunk, a few of them even if the road is solid. Replaced control arms, bushing, new axles, all new tie rods (after market), still there, anyone figure it out?


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