# TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams



## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

All information is stolen from other threads and websites to compare technical data together.
*OEM Cam Specs.*








.........................................Intake.............Exhaust
Clearance [cl].....................0.00mm...........0.00mm
Duration [0.1mm+cl].............272°................258°
Duration [1.0mm+cl].............211°................207°
Valve Lift [cl=0]..................9.85mm...........9.90mm
Cam Lift............................4.95mm...........4.95mm
Peak Angle..........................110°................110°
Timing [1.00mm+cl]...........-5/36°..............36/9°
Lift @ TDC.........................0.65mm...........0.45mm
*note - audi TT 3.2L, the R32, and 2.8L 24v all share the same cams.
*Schrick 24V Cam Specs*








Thanks to koko5869: http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3565721
The cams specs posted above from the Schrick catalog: http://www.avl-schrick.com/dat...E.pdf








*Now for the Techtonics Tuning Camshaft*
TT 24v VR6 Camshaft Set Steel Billet (264°/260°- Street)
http://www.techtonicstuning.co...9.592
VR6 264/260 cam set for all 24v 2.8-3.2 variable cam timing engines, Golf/Jetta IV, R32 and Audi tt 3.2, Steel Billet, 23hp gains, 16 ft/lb torque gains.
*The TT cams have an intake duration of 264deg @ 0.1mm lift and an exhaust duration of 260deg @ 0.1mm lift*

If anything in this post is wrong let me know and I'll change it.


_Modified by BakBer at 6:01 PM 3-3-2008_


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## Fugee (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*

TT cams are the way to go! A really nice upgrade for the 2.8 would be some r32 cams...bolt right in and a nice gain if combined with a chip!
You can pick up a set of used R32 cams in the classifieds for cheap these days


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (Fugee)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Fugee* »_TT cams are the way to go! A really nice upgrade for the 2.8 would be some r32 cams...bolt right in and a nice gain if combined with a chip!
You can pick up a set of used R32 cams in the classifieds for cheap these days

That myth was busted a while back. The 2.8 and the 3.2 are the same cams according to the part numbers. I wish it was true that the R cams were better.


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## Fugee (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*

Hmm thats weird...When I was at Dubfest this year I talked to Garrett from GIAC and he was the one the told me that the 3.2 cams are a really nice upgrade...but who knows


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (Fugee)*

good stuff man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
edit: can anyone from these specs tell if these are good FI cams?


_Modified by Attack.:Rabbit at 3:14 PM 12-29-2007_


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## LinkATX (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*

I asked this question a couple times and never gotten an answer...
*Are there any 'special tools' required to pull cams? *This will be the first thing i do out of warranty and I haven't found any answers. I certainley will not be paying someone to do this unless there are cost prohibitive tools required. Anyone?


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (LinkATX)*


_Quote, originally posted by *LinkATX* »_I asked this question a couple times and never gotten an answer...
*Are there any 'special tools' required to pull cams? *This will be the first thing i do out of warranty and I haven't found any answers. I certainley will not be paying someone to do this unless there are cost prohibitive tools required. Anyone?









You will need some metric tools
Allen wrenches
Open end wrenches
Maybe some Triple Squares
Torque wrench
Also some Misc tools. Pillars and what not.
You'll have to drain your coolant b/c you have to remove the thermostat housing and timing chain cover. It's really pretty easy to get the cams out.
You will have to buy new cam bolts b/c they have to be replaced when removing the reinstalling the cam gears. I would recommend having a Bentley handy for some torque specs.


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## orange1218 (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (LinkATX)*

I haven't done them either (but will also be my first out of warranty mod). I know you will need a tool like this: http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...=none I think you also need a press to get the cam out of the timing chain sprocket...not sure on that though.
I plan on finding a local vortexer that can help me. From what I've read, this is more complex than is appears.


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## my02VR6 (Jan 6, 2005)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (Attack.:Rabbit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Attack.:Rabbit* »_good stuff man http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif
edit: can anyone from these specs tell if these are good FI cams?

_Modified by Attack.:Rabbit at 3:14 PM 12-29-2007_

X2. Lookin to do chains, clutch, flywheel and LSD before VF, and was wondering if the TT cams would go well with the s/c.


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (my02VR6)*

Hi i did my cams it was not that bad and it did take me all day.They are not as easy as the 12v but they are not to bad.I am Running the TT's with a VF S2 on my 04 R32.Actually the charger was harder to put on then doing the cams.So far so good, I maybe have 1200miles with the charger/TT combo right now.cams have about 7000miles on them did them last year.


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## canadacraig (Nov 23, 2004)

i've still got my schricks for sale, if anyone is interested


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (canadacraig)*


_Quote, originally posted by *canadacraig* »_i've still got my schricks for sale, if anyone is interested

how much

and also...would a set of specific FI ground cams even benefit our cars...or are any of these good for a benefit not just on S/C cars, but turbocharged cars?


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## VR6onDaBlock (Oct 8, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*

out of curiousity if i get cams TT or Schrick will i get that "dude is that a turbo?" whinning noise at +4K RPMS?


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (VR6onDaBlock)*

what about the TT 276 vs Schricks 268/264 combo....


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_what about the TT 276 vs Schricks 268/264 combo....

TT only has one set for the 24v the 276 cams you are referring to are 12v cams


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_
TT only has one set for the 24v the 276 cams you are referring to are 12v cams

my bad i meant to say CAT 276/272 cams vs. the schrick 268/264 combo.


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (fourthchirpin)*

those are also 12v cams
the only cams manufactured for the 24v are schrick and tt


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## LinkATX (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (orange1218)*


_Quote, originally posted by *orange1218* »_I haven't done them either (but will also be my first out of warranty mod). I know you will need a tool like this: http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...=none I think you also need a press to get the cam out of the timing chain sprocket...not sure on that though.
I plan on finding a local vortexer that can help me. From what I've read, this is more complex than is appears. 

Thats what I was looking for, thanks. I'm not worried about the how hard it is, just didn't want to get stuck needing some VW specific tool.
http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (LinkATX)*

You can also just use an 1/8" thick steel plate and lay across the head and slide into the notches on the cams...I forgot about that


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## LinkATX (Jul 25, 2006)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*

Good idea. IM not working but thanks.


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_those are also 12v cams
the only cams manufactured for the 24v are schrick and tt


your wrong buddy. unless Cat hasn't came out with them.....


_Modified by fourthchirpin at 2:07 PM 12-31-2007_


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_

your wrong buddy. unless Cat hasn't came out with them.....

_Modified by fourthchirpin at 2:07 PM 12-31-2007_

use internet explorer to go to http://www.catcams.com they have 12v only. the cams offered here http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...Nav=6 are 12v cams as well.
I have done too much research to accept that someone else has made cams for the 24v other than schrick and TT. However I'm sure that some other camshaft manufacturers will step up to the plate soon


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## VReihen6 (Aug 7, 2006)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_
use internet explorer to go to http://www.catcams.com they have 12v only. the cams offered here http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...Nav=6 are 12v cams as well.
I have done too much research to accept that someone else has made cams for the 24v other than schrick and TT. However I'm sure that some other camshaft manufacturers will step up to the plate soon

mr know it all...


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## newcreation (Nov 23, 2003)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (JeffBeagley)*

If you buy the TT cams mine came with the locking plate


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## fourthchirpin (Nov 19, 2004)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_
use internet explorer to go to http://www.catcams.com they have 12v only. the cams offered here http://www.bildon.com/catalog/...Nav=6 are 12v cams as well.
I have done too much research to accept that someone else has made cams for the 24v other than schrick and TT. However I'm sure that some other camshaft manufacturers will step up to the plate soon

u get more info emailing then just looking on websites for products. I have emails from bildon with part numbers AND specs for all there 24v cat cams. mind you these emails are from early 2006. i can email the sheet that was emailed to me. pm me. What probably happened between 2006 and now is that CATCAMs never came out.




_Modified by fourthchirpin at 7:34 PM 12-31-2007_


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## orange1218 (Mar 23, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (fourthchirpin)*

I just emailed Bildon three days ago. They told me that there are no CAT cams for the 24v, but might be coming out in 2008, they didn't specify when. 
Here is a similar thread I had going on this topic.


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*Re: TT Cams vs. Schricks Cams (fourthchirpin)*


_Quote, originally posted by *fourthchirpin* »_u get more info emailing then just looking on websites for products. I have emails from bildon with part numbers AND specs for all there 24v cat cams. mind you these emails are from early 2006. i can email the sheet that was emailed to me. pm me. What probably happened between 2006 and now is that CATCAMs never came out.

I know as well as anyone that emailing ppl is the best way to get good info but as stated, 
_Quote, originally posted by *orange1218* »_I just emailed Bildon three days ago. They told me that there are no CAT cams for the 24v, but might be coming out in 2008, they didn't specify when.
, CAT has still not come out with the camshaft set for the 24v. The emails you speak of are nearly 2 years old now.
As soon as CAT CAMS puts up some final information of their production cam set I will be happy to compare them to existing cams from Schrick and TT.


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## BakBer (Apr 19, 2007)

*FV-QR*

bump b/c this is good info and everyone is going N/A these days


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## Velocity_Sport_Tuned (Jan 13, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (BakBer)*


_Quote, originally posted by *BakBer* »_bump b/c this is good info and everyone is going N/A these days

I "Hope" Bildon Motorsport will hurry up and make some Kick A$$ 24v cams for us...and soon.. I have a project to finish


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## .SLEEPYDUB. (Jul 28, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (Velocity_Sport_Tuned)*

i dont even remember you making this thread bakber...
Why wouldnt cams be good for FI? I mean...more air...more power...i guess its all in the tune though...
doesnt seem like a problem to me


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (.SLEEPYDUB.)*

Ive always heard that cams are good up to ~ 268 or so with FI.


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## 43%burnt (Apr 24, 2008)

its called valve overlap. thats why FI doesnt work well with cams.


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## DannyLo (Aug 2, 2006)

*Re: (43%burnt)*


_Quote, originally posted by *43%burnt* »_its called valve overlap. thats why FI doesnt work well with cams. 

it will if it has little very limited overlap, and low duration.
If it has a high overlap, pressure is going to build up in the exhaust manifold which is an absolute NONO for the engine.
It's really hard to find a turbo cam that works better than the stock cam...especially for the street..


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: (L.I. Dan)*


_Quote, originally posted by *L.I. Dan* »_
it will if it has little very limited overlap, and low duration.
If it has a high overlap, pressure is going to build up in the exhaust manifold which is an absolute NONO for the engine.
It's really hard to find a turbo cam that works better than the stock cam...especially for the street..

256's are great for 12v's, but there is simply not enough demand for boost cams for the 24v, let alone cams in general


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## [email protected] (Jul 2, 2006)

*Re: FV-QR (RipCity Euros)*


_Quote, originally posted by *RipCity Euros* »_Ive always heard that cams are good up to ~ 268 or so with FI.

its not the duration
Evo´s run 272-308*

The 268 works great for 24v turbo http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR ([email protected])*

So how can I tell the difference between 264/260 and 268/264, which one has more or less overlap. Noob in training thanks


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

The 264/260s have 27deg overlap and the 268/264s have 31deg overlap with both cams in the 'resting' position. Honestly with VVT I wouldn't sweat the overlap so much, even on n/a software the intake cam backs off up top.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

Paul - since they are both pretty tame, would both pretty much be okay on turbo applications?


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (pOrKcHoP bOy)*

Depends the TT's are much cheaper, that's what I'd probably do and put the extra $700 into custom tuning for them.


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## vdubsunday (Jan 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

how would you do custon tunning? like standalone?


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## Bdfrd 24v (Nov 23, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubsunday)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubsunday* »_how would you do custon tunning? like standalone?

Jeff Atwood http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


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## RipCity Euros (Sep 23, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (Bdfrd 24v)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bdfrd 24v* »_
ME7 God http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 

Fixed


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## vdubsunday (Jan 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (RipCity Euros)*

I was talking to this shop owner here in houston and he was quoting me around 2000 for standalone! Really surprised me, i was expecting that much for a turboed car.


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## Tom Long (Sep 21, 2007)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubsunday)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubsunday* »_I was talking to this shop owner here in houston and he was quoting me around 2000 for standalone! Really surprised me, i was expecting that much for a turboed car. 

That is cheap for standalone, the top of the line standalone can run $5-6k or higher


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (vdubsunday)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vdubsunday* »_ Really surprised me, i was expecting that much for a turboed car. 

You'd be lucky to pay 2k for half of the parts to turbo the car.


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## vdubsunday (Jan 14, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

^haha yeah i know


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## DUB_MANGv2 (Oct 28, 2008)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*


_Quote, originally posted by *need_a_VR6* »_The 264/260s have 27deg overlap and the 268/264s have 31deg overlap with both cams in the 'resting' position. Honestly with VVT I wouldn't sweat the overlap so much, even on n/a software the intake cam backs off up top. 

*NOOB ALERT*

...ok so each cam spins at a different rate? is their any kind of video or anything that can show what that looks like....


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*

They are different cam sets. You have one set or the other. 
EDIT: By one or the other I mean either the: 264/260s or 268/264s 
The overlap is how many degrees both the intake and exhaust are open after firing the cylinder. 
Good info in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camshaft


_Modified by PhReE at 10:31 PM 11-20-2008_


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## WCoUtReT (Jul 14, 2005)

*Re: FV-QR (DUB_MANGv2)*


_Quote, originally posted by *DUB_MANGv2* »_
*NOOB ALERT*

...ok so each cam spins at a different rate? is their any kind of video or anything that can show what that looks like....

No, the cam will adjust it's position with respect to the other cam. Except for a split second, they will always spin at the same rate.


_Modified by WCoUtReT at 10:05 PM 11-20-2008_


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (PhReE)*


_Quote, originally posted by *PhReE* »_ 
The overlap is how many degrees both the intake and exhaust are open after firing the cylinder. 


Overlap is how long both the intake and exhaust valves are open, usually measured in deg. It's independent of when the firing happens, though both are usually around tdc


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

I know it'd independent but since the cams run at half speed there are two tdc events for each cam revolution, so the cams are open after firing the cyl, actually I guess it would be at the top of the exhaust stroke, as opposed to the compression stroke -- that's what I was referring to.


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## need_a_VR6 (May 19, 1999)

*Re: FV-QR (PhReE)*

I have waste spark, so mine fires at breathing tdc as well


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## PhReE (Sep 16, 2004)

*Re: FV-QR (need_a_VR6)*

lol ok then


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## DJNastie (Mar 19, 2009)

RISE DEAD THREAD RISE!!!!

i got an email from Cat Cams a couple days ago i have been looking for cams for my mkv R32. anyway there are some interesting options from cat cams 

From Cat Cams:
yes we do have R32 cams. There are (at least) 2 different types for the 
exhaust cams, depending on the engine code you have:

type1: BDE-BFH-BML
- intake OEM cam: 022 109 102A (VVT: 26 cam degrees - 022 109 087 J)
- exhaust OEM cam: 022 109 101C (VVT: 11 cam degrees - 022 109 088 M)
- cat cams part numbers: 76074xx

type2: BDB-BMJ-BUB
- intake OEM cam: 022 109 102A (VVT: 26 cam degrees - 022 109 087 H or 
K)
- exhaust OEM cam: 022 109 101E (VVT: 21 cam degrees - 022 109 088 L or 
R)
- cat cams part numbers: 76078xx


std specs:
----------

- intake: 210°/9.9mm - 205°/9.9mm
- exhaust: 205°/9.9mm - 210°/9.9mm
- both types have same profiles but different centerlines


cat cams options:
-----------------

7607421 / 7607821 (stage 1):
- intake: 218°/11.0mm - 214°/11.0mm (0.6mm extra opening at TDC)
- exhaust: 214°/11.0mm - 218°/11.0mm (0.6mm extra opening at TDC)
- std ECU
- std valve springs

7607422 / 7607822 (stage 2):
- intake: 226°/11.0mm - 222°/11.0mm (1.1mm extra opening at TDC)
- exhaust: 218°/11.0mm - 222°/11.0mm (0.8mm extra opening at TDC)
- reprogrammed ECU
- std valve springs

7607423 / 7607823 (stage 3):
- intake: 234°/12.0mm - 230°/12.0mm (1.8mm extra opening at TDC)
- exhaust: 222°/11.5mm - 226°/11.5mm (1.2mm extra opening at TDC)
- reprogrammed / stand alone ECU
- requires spring kit


single valve spring setup:
- upper retainers: 99312 /S (hardened steel)
- lower retainers: original
- springs: PAC-S90015 or PAC-S10015 (default or GOLD quality, no head 
machining, check valve seal clearance)

dual valve spring setup:
- retainers: 99391 /S (hardened steel)
- lower retainers: 99537
- springs: PAC-D99864 or PAC-D19864 (default or GOLD quality, no head 
machining, check valve seal clearance)


REMARKS:
- all valve to piston clearances need to be checked
- left and right cylinder banks (short / long ports) do have longer / 
shorter profiles: short runners = long duration and vice versa
- to do the valve measurement, use +/-2mm shims below the hydraulic lash 
adjuster. This way, the hydraulic adjusters are fully compressed by the 
valve spring and act like a solid follower. Use a shim thickness that is 
slightly too big, so the valve is opened approximately 0.2mm to make 
sure that the complete profile is measured
- solid lash adjusters CC084: available for use with custom mechanical 
camshaft profiles. NOT FOR USE WITH HYDRAULIC PROFILES!!!



Best regards,
Ken Stessens


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