# Went from a Golf R (2013) to a A3 2.0t Quattro (2015)



## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Hi guys, just want to give some feedback on anyone looking to get into a A3. I had a 2013 R and prior to that a GTI. 
Firstly, I thought I was going to regret getting the A3 as I was looking to get a Golf R or a GTI Autobahn. I live in San Diego, CA. So I normally lease out my cars for 3 years 12k miles. I got my R for 427 a month with 2100 down and I got $400/month with 1k down. My pay off was 23800 and most dealership were offering me 22 and change. I still had 7 more month plus I was 6k over miles. I came across Audi of Esco and after a VERY brief negotiation, I was 1k down @ 400 a month with my car paid off in full plus the 6k miles I was over. I got a better deal than my car, both cars cost the same. I was going to buy the R (the one I had) but it had some issues. Best deal I got for a 2016 R for 550 a month. No way. Best deal I got for a GTI Autobahn, was 680 bucks courtesy of Kearny Mesa (I recking I was getting somewhere -_- ). After several dealership I felt like I was going somewhere. Those who did have a R were over priced and same with the GTI. So I got the A3 2.0t Quattro with NAV and RIMS. Only thing I regret not getting was the keyless ignition and MAYBE a better sound system but overall, SUPER happy with the car. It's fast, not as nimble as the R but that is easily remedied. I like the simple look and feel of the car. Simple ECU upgrade I get up to 300hp.

As for my question. Does anyone recommend any good stiff suspension liken that of a R? I don't wish to lower the car by much. Dealership won't throw a fit so long as I put the stock back on assuming I want to trade it 2.5 years from now. And for my 2nd question is the ECU upgrade. Not something I really NEED NEED but I would like the extra power. Are any of the 2 location down south of CA good with ECU upgrades or are they quick to void the warranty? I know it is a grey line but some dealership are more friendly to that sort of stuff compare to others...

I really should post some pictures. I'll post some shortly.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

1) Audi has been cracking down on ECU tunes - if you have warranty concerns take a good look into the Burger JB1 (or wait for the upcoming JB4) tuning boxes. 
My local Audi dealer who does APR tunes will not tune Audi, only VWs. You sacrifice a bit of power but the JB1 is less $, can be removed and also resold when you want something new. 300 HP and ~4.0 0-60 ain't bad for $400. 

2) not a suspension expert but I believe you can get aftermarket coilovers or possibly upgrade to the OEM S3 setup to add a sportier ride


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

For a better suspension you probably need coilover... keeping in mind these usually drop the car at least .5 if not more.

Springs alone won't stiffen up to match an R, and probably won't feel good on stock shocks anyways. Just seems a waste to drop enough to go to coils when you are on a lease.

Tuning boxes such as jb1 and the neuspeed thing are the warranty "safe" method... but as stated above, the aggressive TD1 flagging is a danger for anything else.


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## iceorbital (Jul 2, 2011)

I'm on a similar boat, I kept my golf R and bought wife an a3 2.0 with sport suspension... don't quite like how the car feels when cornering (compared with the R) and not quite sure what's the best way to solve the problem. But perhaps the suggestions i got can help you http://forums.fourtitude.com/showth...sion-seeing-body-roll&p=87885524#post87885524


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)




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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> 1) Audi has been cracking down on ECU tunes - if you have warranty concerns take a good look into the Burger JB1 (or wait for the upcoming JB4) tuning boxes.
> My local Audi dealer who does APR tunes will not tune Audi, only VWs. You sacrifice a bit of power but the JB1 is less $, can be removed and also resold when you want something new. 300 HP and ~4.0 0-60 ain't bad for $400.
> 
> 2) not a suspension expert but I believe you can get aftermarket coilovers or possibly upgrade to the OEM S3 setup to add a sportier ride


I am a novice when it comes to ECU tunes. I am going to read up on the JB1 and I am assuming the JB4 has yet to be released. But I don't get why that dealership will tune VW's but not Audi's. Is Audi just a cranky old man looking to put his foot down when ever he can?
So I found their official site (I pressume)
http://burgertuning.com/jb_vw_stage_1_tuner.html
Say's it is not available in California -_- Any idea why? 




sevenVT said:


> For a better suspension you probably need coilover... keeping in mind these usually drop the car at least .5 if not more.
> 
> Springs alone won't stiffen up to match an R, and probably won't feel good on stock shocks anyways. Just seems a waste to drop enough to go to coils when you are on a lease.
> 
> Tuning boxes such as jb1 and the neuspeed thing are the warranty "safe" method... but as stated above, the aggressive TD1 flagging is a danger for anything else.


Reading up on TD1, according to this thread
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5635710-TD1-warranty-flag
"ANY car that is brought into service will be automatically scanned and if there is ANY modifications/chip/performance software your info is sent to Audis main server and your car will be flagged 'TD1" meaning modified ECU/suspension/shifter/exhaust"
Am I to understand that I can't even drop it or add better suspension/shocks because it will trip the TD1? What makes the JB1 a safe method vs traditional methods and is the JB4 worth the wait?



iceorbital said:


> I'm on a similar boat, I kept my golf R and bought wife an a3 2.0 with sport suspension... don't quite like how the car feels when cornering (compared with the R) and not quite sure what's the best way to solve the problem. But perhaps the suggestions i got can help you http://forums.fourtitude.com/showth...sion-seeing-body-roll&p=87885524#post87885524


Thank you! Will surely look into it!

OK so from what I gather, JB1 is safe against tripping the TD1, however, if I do anything else like changing suspension/shocks or even lowering it a tad bit, that will also trip the TD1?

SO my next question is, even if I were to do any kind of minor modification like the ones mentioned above, if I took my car in for service @ a local APR, I am still not in the safe simply because if I do ever need to take my car in for the dealership for ... a mechanical failure not cause by any of the mods, my warranty will be voided the minute they check it even if I undo all the mods? Which the only mods that would meed be un done would just be the suspension since the JB1 is removal. Correct me if I am wrong and hopefully I am not being to redundant on my questions...


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

TD1 is for the engine. Suspension mods won't affect that. There were some issues a local S8 owner had (a TT-RS owner was lucky to get his engine replaced by Audi with instructions "never tune again", it was discussed in Jalopnik a few weeks ago) so they stopped tuning Audis. That is likely an awkward position for the Audi dealer when this conversation happens 
Audi: you had an engine issue due to a tune, no warranty coverage....
Customer: my Audi dealer performed the tune; why would my dealer do something that breaks my car?
Audi Dealer: umm, let me go talk to my manager....want some coffee and a pastry?
An ECU tune should not cause TD1 issues if it is removed EVERY time prior to going to the Audi dealer. 
JB1 is less advanced than JB4, which isn't released yet. 
The JB1 "isn't sold in California" because (no offense) Californian government uses crippling regulations to negatively impact businesses/people all the while not getting their own house in order. You can use it in CA but to say it is "CA compliant" would mean Burger has to jump through all the hoops CA creates.


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

F9zSlavik said:


> I am a novice when it comes to ECU tunes. I am going to read up on the JB1 and I am assuming the JB4 has yet to be released. But I don't get why that dealership will tune VW's but not Audi's. Is Audi just a cranky old man looking to put his foot down when ever he can?
> So I found their official site (I pressume)
> http://burgertuning.com/jb_vw_stage_1_tuner.html
> Say's it is not available in California -_- Any idea why?
> ...


Audi is being a lot more strict at this time regarding modifications. The dealer gets reimbursed for warranty work so Audi may deny them payment if the car is modified.

JB1 has decided not to sell in CA due to emission regulations, you can pick them up from an out-of-state vendor though. Piggyback tunes like the JB1 or Neuspeed don't modify the ECU which is why they don't result in a TD1 code.


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

As stated above you can remove the programming if you get an ECU flash, but the JB1 or the neuspeed box do not flash your ecu and sits in the middle intercepting readings and altering them to get the engine to do what it wants, without flashing the ecu. 

So removing the JB1 box before a dealer visit would be easier, generally, than flashing back to stock with a tuner shop.

I'm pretty sure it depends on the dealer the level of aggression they use in assigning a JB1. They are going to naturally be more suspicious of cars that are in anyway modified.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

There is also the Oettinger tuning box with a warranty and all but it's like $1500-2000. It is about as good as the upcoming JB4 box. JB4 has been around the BMW tuning world for awhile. 
APR and others make great ECU tunes, FYI. Have one on my GF's Mk7 GTI. VW isn't as strict as Audi. If it was out at the time, would have got the JB1 to use until the JB4 is released...didn't have that option in Feb:-/


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

Revolver1966 said:


> TD1 is for the engine.


"Automatic" TD1 is for the engine. Techs have reported that instruction from Audi is to manually flag cars with TD1 for anything as simple as CAI or catbacks or lowering springs. Your mileage may vary depending on the dealer, of course.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

araemo said:


> "Automatic" TD1 is for the engine. Techs have reported that instruction from Audi is to manually flag cars with TD1 for anything as simple as CAI or catbacks or lowering springs. Your mileage may vary depending on the dealer, of course.


So... I am at the mercy of the techs now at Audi. -_-
Can I just call Audi and ask how strict they are? And if so, do I talk to the techs or the guy I bought the car from? Ideally, I would want to change out suspension/shocks to make them stiffer which is why I am asking.

Also, I got a response from the makers of JB1. 

"The unit will not trigger a TD1 warranty issue.

The power we getting are equivalent to the flash tunes. On a stock car you will see a 35whp gain.
On a car with no bolt on modifications you will not need the JB4 which will be suitable for full bolt on cars as well as higher octane fuel.

If you have any further questions feel free to email me."

Little confuse, so basically for what I am going to use my car for, JB1 is more than enough and there is no reason to go with JB4?

Isn't a ECU flash rated to make the GTI (and I am assuming also A3) to around 300 HP? Looking at other threads, GTI were reaching roughly 300hp. 

@sevenVT
Reflashing back to stock every time it goes in for a tune up is probably not economical lol I am assuming they charge to add and remove the upgrade. 

I'm reading other threads about JB1 on GTI, don't see any for the A3 but I do see some for the S3.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

My dealer wants to charge (rob) me $125 to remove and $125 to reinstall the APR tune. Hence the regret I now have going that route. Some dealers don't charge at all to unflash and reflash. 
Go JB1 unless you have an APR dealer who lives close to you and doesn't charge 2 hours labor for 10 minutes of work. Eurodyne has a home tuning solution but will throw a TD1 AFAIK. APR is dragging their feet on the self-tuning. 
You should expect 300-315 HP from a stage 1 tune. 
The low torque APR tune we got on the GTI has 295-300 HP and 335 TQ.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

Revolver1966 said:


> My dealer wants to charge (rob) me $125 to remove and $125 to reinstall the APR tune. Hence the regret I now have going that route. Some dealers don't charge at all to unflash and reflash.
> Go JB1 unless you have an APR dealer who lives close to you and doesn't charge 2 hours labor for 10 minutes of work. Eurodyne has a home tuning solution but will throw a TD1 AFAIK. APR is dragging their feet on the self-tuning.
> You should expect 300-315 HP from a stage 1 tune.
> The low torque APR tune we got on the GTI has 295-300 HP and 335 TQ.


Do you have proof that a Eurodyne tune when flashed back to stock will flag TD1?

Does APR guarantee no TD1 when flashed back to stock?


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## sevenVT (Aug 18, 2004)

F9zSlavik said:


> @sevenVT
> Reflashing back to stock every time it goes in for a tune up is probably not economical lol I am assuming they charge to add and remove the upgrade.
> 
> I'm reading other threads about JB1 on GTI, don't see any for the A3 but I do see some for the S3.


No, I doubt it would be as economical as a JB1 for those purposes. Of course the JB1 won't trip a flag automatically, but if they see a tuner box hanging around in your engine bay, they are going to manually flag you... so uninstalling is probably recommended.

I'm happy on just springs, if they flag me for that and I ever get push back on a warranty issue, they are going to have hell to pay.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

F9zSlavik said:


> So... I am at the mercy of the techs now at Audi. -_-
> Can I just call Audi and ask how strict they are? And if so, do I talk to the techs or the guy I bought the car from? Ideally, I would want to change out suspension/shocks to make them stiffer which is why I am asking.


It's basically always been this way. There's just now a particular flag in their database to note it. You've always been at the mercy of how understanding and willing to work with you your dealership is. Some will look at lowering springs and treat the whole drivetrain as out of warranty.. others will only care about the directly effected items - CV joints, control arms, etc. (And even then, very few dealerships seem to be willing to go the distance and do a true root fault analysis to figure out if the failure is one that was exacerbated by your modification or not). Find other people who have taken modified cars to the same dealership with warranty work recent time.. the salesman likely can't really give you a good answer, unless he's been there a long time.. it's more a question of how the whole service department treats it - In most cases, your best bet is to be honest with them and ask them. I did that before getting my current car tuned, and the service manager actually recommended a particular local shop.  Other departments might tell you you'll be voiding the warranty completely.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks for your responses. I'll call my local Audi dealership and ask them. I did call Pure Motorsport of SD and asked them a few questions. They gave me a different answer.
First question I ask was about the TD1 after ECU flash. He said he that they will only know if they check for it and that most of the time they will not and EVEN if they do, they can NOT void my warranty as they would have to prove that the mod caused the "said" damage. Since there is NO damage when when taking in for a tune up, under some law (might just be in Cali), they can not void m warranty. 
So I asked, if I wanted to be safe and remove the ECU flash, will that remove the TD1, he said YES, reverting back to stock means no TD1 flash and that the flash counter remains at 0. 
As far as removing the ECU upgrade, he said once I buy it, it's mine to do what I want with and that I only pay a 1 time retail price for the upgrade, some 800 bucks. If I want to remove it so that I can take it in for service, it will only cost me 25 bucks to remove and another 25 bucks to re flash it back on there. 

I asked for a quote with Golf R like suspension... 

APR ECU UpgradeVW GTI Mk7 2.0T/ A3 Software Upgrade SingleProgram- 91 Octane91 699.00 
Estimate to Perform APR ECU software upgrade 102.00 

H&R Sport SpringsA3 Quattro. Approx lowering 1.3" w/ regularsuspension/ Sport suspension .50-.75" w/ factorysport suspension1 248.95 
Estimate to install H&R Sport springs x2.5 102.00 = 255.00
Sublet for 4wheel Alignment 1 84.99

With tax $1,465.78


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## TnTNYC (Aug 1, 2012)

F9zSlavik said:


> Thanks for your responses. I'll call my local Audi dealership and ask them. I did call Pure Motorsport of SD and asked them a few questions. They gave me a different answer.
> First question I ask was about the TD1 after ECU flash. He said he that they will only know if they check for it and that most of the time they will not and EVEN if they do, they can NOT void my warranty as they would have to prove that the mod caused the "said" damage. Since there is NO damage when when taking in for a tune up, under some law (might just be in Cali), they can not void m warranty.
> So I asked, if I wanted to be safe and remove the ECU flash, will that remove the TD1, he said YES, reverting back to stock means no TD1 flash and that the flash counter remains at 0.
> As far as removing the ECU upgrade, he said once I buy it, it's mine to do what I want with and that I only pay a 1 time retail price for the upgrade, some 800 bucks. If I want to remove it so that I can take it in for service, it will only cost me 25 bucks to remove and another 25 bucks to re flash it back on there.
> ...


Not sure I understand. Why would a third party performance shop, not affiliated with the manufacturer, care about a TD1? I would think even if they ran your ECU for mods they couldn't flag anything back to Audi. Or care less. Am I missing something?

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

They don't I was merely asking them (PURE) about TD1 in regards to taking my car in for a tune up after the upgrade. Only reason I would take my car in to Audi when it comes to maintaining the maintenance is because I bought the package that allowed me to get all the maintenance all the way up to 45k by paying up front 850 bucks.


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## 2011boostd (Nov 30, 2013)

*TD1*

In the subby world SOA was trolling the NaSIOc for
Forums and denying warranty because people would remove mods and bring to dealer. Thee was one report where of course the ****ty cast Pistons went (ring lands) and the dealer had his bud thread from NASIOC and showed him why it was denied. That's why you see people blurring out the license plates in photos, he did not!

Taking the ECU tune off WILL NOT remove the TD1 and send the counter back to zero that is a lie. I have friends at the local dealers and they told me it is a cycle count type designation ms can not be removed. Further they had people buying a new ECU all together for the R and then switching it back when going to the dealer as a safe gaurd against the dreaded TD1

Go DTUK FSR+ and Pedal Box simply amazing.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

@ 2011boostd: I see, so that is why they blurr out the plates, I had no idea they would go to that length! That is shady! 
So either the tech has ZERO idea how the TD1 works or he straight out lied to me. You said "Taking the ECU tune off WILL NOT remove the TD1 and send the counter back to zero that is a lie", to which I asked him a question while giving him this example. Samsung cell phones can be unlocked and flash HOWEVER they do have something called KNOX that even if you flash to stock, it keeps track of the counter thus voiding your warranty. He said they had a way around that. If he straight out lied to me, that makes me VERY angry! That would mean PURE is in this for the money without giving as rats ass about its customers. Could just be 1 bad apple. I don't mind buying the JB1 but if its possible to get the flash than of course I'll do it. 

I have no idea what DTUK FSR+ and Pedal Bo so I'll have to read up and educate myself on the subject.

So once again, there is NO WAY a flash can be done without tripping TD1 and PURE Motorsport of San Diego statement about them having a way around that is a straight out a complete and utter lie, correct?
The other statement he made of course was that Audi can not simply void your warranty due to a flash as they would have to prove it was responsible for breaking somethign in the vehicle and that this was a LAW in California.

Read this and horrified me!
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/help-audi-of-america-wants-to-void-my-warranty-1467844528


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

F9zSlavik said:


> @ 2011boostd: I see, so that is why they blurr out the plates, I had no idea they would go to that length! That is shady!
> So either the tech has ZERO idea how the TD1 works or he straight out lied to me. You said "Taking the ECU tune off WILL NOT remove the TD1 and send the counter back to zero that is a lie", to which I asked him a question while giving him this example. Samsung cell phones can be unlocked and flash HOWEVER they do have something called KNOX that even if you flash to stock, it keeps track of the counter thus voiding your warranty. He said they had a way around that. If he straight out lied to me, that makes me VERY angry! That would mean PURE is in this for the money without giving as rats ass about its customers. Could just be 1 bad apple. I don't mind buying the JB1 but if its possible to get the flash than of course I'll do it.
> 
> I have no idea what DTUK FSR+ and Pedal Bo so I'll have to read up and educate myself on the subject.
> ...


My buddy worked at Audi and is now a tech at Porsche. I have 2 APR cars (Mk6 & Mk7 GTI). When the time comes to get my next car, if it is an Audi (may be a Golf R) I will not get an ECU tune. VW has been monitoring Rs as well so maybe not even then. 
My local Audi dealer, also an APR dealer, will not tune Audis. That is telling. In the past there were no tuning boxes and cars were not under as much scrutinization. Get a box, never read anyone say "wish I had a tune". 
APR tunes make sense on VWs but Audi spends a lot on their service plan. They don't want ppl abusing it


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> My buddy worked at Audi and is now a tech at Porsche. I have 2 APR cars (Mk6 & Mk7 GTI). When the time comes to get my next car, if it is an Audi (may be a Golf R) I will not get an ECU tune. VW has been monitoring Rs as well so maybe not even then.
> My local Audi dealer, also an APR dealer, will not tune Audis. That is telling. In the past there were no tuning boxes and cars were not under as much scrutinization. Get a box, never read anyone say "wish I had a tune".
> APR tunes make sense on VWs but Audi spends a lot on their service plan. They don't want ppl abusing it


Yeah that is saying a lot if an Audi/APR dealer is not willing to tune Audi cars -_- I'd still like to know why the tech lied. That lie could of cost me my warranty and as a consumer, it's shady business.
Looks like the safest bet is just to get the box (JB1). I've read nothing on TD1 flagging via suspension upgrade however, any aftermarket intake, exhaust, short shifter can cause a td1 flag from what I read.

You guys ever think that there will be a way around the TD1 detection? I'm hearing it is also a problem for the new R too.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

FWIW: haven't heard any issues from stage 1 alone (except on a TT-RS). Also, APR's tune does reset the counter according to APR. They are very dodgy on this question so as to not say "here is how we deceive Audi/VW" but it does reset the counter so no TD1 should show AS OF 2014/15.
My feeling is that anything more than stage 1 causes annoyance to service techs.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

F9zSlavik said:


> Yeah that is saying a lot if an Audi/APR dealer is not willing to tune Audi cars -_- I'd still like to know why the tech lied. That lie could of cost me my warranty and as a consumer, it's shady business.
> Looks like the safest bet is just to get the box (JB1). I've read nothing on TD1 flagging via suspension upgrade however, any aftermarket intake, exhaust, short shifter can cause a td1 flag from what I read.
> 
> You guys ever think that there will be a way around the TD1 detection? I'm hearing it is also a problem for the new R too.


My local Audi dealer is also an APR dealer but they Won't tune an Audi, I'm unsure if they will tune a VW. It stinks because I would love to have my Audi tuned.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

FLtrooper said:


> My local Audi dealer is also an APR dealer but they Won't tune an Audi, I'm unsure if they will tune a VW. It stinks because I would love to have my Audi tuned.


If they won't tune VW, who else would they have to work with my guess is the long service plans Audi has invested in make them more stringent than VW. However the R now comes with a locked case around the ECU which means they are likely cracking down (pun intended) on OBD and direct ECU flashes. They are making it so hard to tune that they now have the argument "you went through X, Y & Z to alter the engine software" in their pocket.


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## araemo (Dec 9, 2012)

2011boostd said:


> Taking the ECU tune off WILL NOT remove the TD1


Correct, removing the ECU tune does not remove TD1, because TD1 is in VW/Audi's database, not your car. However, if you never take it to the dealers with any mods, you should not acquire TD1 in the first place. So, quit arguing against a strawman please.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

araemo said:


> Correct, removing the ECU tune does not remove TD1, because TD1 is in VW/Audi's database, not your car. However, if you never take it to the dealers with any mods, you should not acquire TD1 in the first place. So, quit arguing against a strawman please.


If one gets a tune and NEVER brings it into the dealer in a tuned state they will not have a TD1 flag. 
If someone brings it in a tuned state and is flagged TD1, removing the ECU tune will not remove the TD1 flag.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> FWIW: haven't heard any issues from stage 1 alone (except on a TT-RS). Also, APR's tune does reset the counter according to APR. They are very dodgy on this question so as to not say "here is how we deceive Audi/VW" but it does reset the counter so no TD1 should show AS OF 2014/15.
> My feeling is that anything more than stage 1 causes annoyance to service techs.


Trying to get a definite answer here and well, APR said the same thing, they can remove the flash counter AND not trip TD1. They said once I buy the upgrade, it is mine and it will only cost 25 bucks to remove it and 25 to add it. But I am trying to get a definite answer and I seem to be getting conflicting information. I do not plan on going beyond Stage 1 (ECU upgrade) and better suspension. I rather have the flash over the box.



FLtrooper said:


> My local Audi dealer is also an APR dealer but they Won't tune an Audi, I'm unsure if they will tune a VW. It stinks because I would love to have my Audi tuned.


That is so infuriating. From what a read in other forums, Audi spends a crap load on their service and got annoyed at a select few that abused it and now we, the guys who do not wish to go beyond stage 1, have to pay for it. It's dumb.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> If one gets a tune and NEVER brings it into the dealer in a tuned state they will not have a TD1 flag.
> If someone brings it in a tuned state and is flagged TD1, removing the ECU tune will not remove the TD1 flag.


So to finally end this debacle here lol
So, IF, I tune my car at APR and then remove it when taking my car in for service, they will not flag my car, is that was you are saying? Side note, APR said that any time the upgrade is removed and stock is restore, the counter will still be at 0, according to them. 
I was under the assumption that once a car was tuned, the osftware in the car would immediately sound the red alarm and keep a record of it so even when it was removed (the upgrade) and taken in for service, the report that it had been flashed would still be there despite the stock reflash. 

Every other thread I've read has said, once you reflash, even if you remove it, you will still get flagged. 

I don't mean to go back and forth with this but with the endless threads I've read, your statement, and the statement APR made, I am just confuse here! lol All I want is more power from my new car without killing the warranty. I don't mind removing the flash each time I take it in for service.


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## FLtrooper (Jul 16, 2012)

F9zSlavik said:


> So to finally end this debacle here lol
> So, IF, I tune my car at APR and then remove it when taking my car in for service, they will not flag my car, is that was you are saying? Side note, APR said that any time the upgrade is removed and stock is restore, the counter will still be at 0, according to them.
> I was under the assumption that once a car was tuned, the osftware in the car would immediately sound the red alarm and keep a record of it so even when it was removed (the upgrade) and taken in for service, the report that it had been flashed would still be there despite the stock reflash.
> 
> ...


If true, I'm sure APR would advertise that flashing back to stock before warranty work will avoid a TD1 flag. I have never seen a APR representative state that the tune is undetectable once flashed back to stock.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

FLtrooper said:


> If true, I'm sure APR would advertise that flashing back to stock before warranty work will avoid a TD1 flag. I have never seen a APR representative state that the tune is undetectable once flashed back to stock.


Go dig through the forums. Was discussed by Arin about a year ago. They don't advertise that because directly as it is admitting liability on APRs point so they use lawyer talk.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

F9zSlavik said:


> Trying to get a definite answer here and well, APR said the same thing, they can remove the flash counter AND not trip TD1. They said once I buy the upgrade, it is mine and it will only cost 25 bucks to remove it and 25 to add it. But I am trying to get a definite answer and I seem to be getting conflicting information. I do not plan on going beyond Stage 1 (ECU upgrade) and better suspension. I rather have the flash over the box.
> 
> 
> 
> That is so infuriating. From what a read in other forums, Audi spends a crap load on their service and got annoyed at a select few that abused it and now we, the guys who do not wish to go beyond stage 1, have to pay for it. It's dumb.


Did APR or your dealer tell you there is a flat $25 fee to remove or add the tune ?


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## DasCC (Feb 24, 2009)

Revolver1966 said:


> Did APR or your dealer tell you there is a flat $25 fee to remove or add the tune ?


This is typically dealer discretion.. APR is only involved in the sale. Any labor related fee is set by the dealer. My local dealer will do it free IF it can be done via OBDii


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## PsychoChild (Jan 19, 2008)

DasCC said:


> This is typically dealer discretion.. APR is only involved in the sale. Any labor related fee is set by the dealer. My local dealer will do it free IF it can be done via OBDii


My Local dealership I bought my S3 from was trying to sell me the APR tune, but said the only negative they wanted to charge a $100 un-flash/re-flash fee each time I would come in for service which I was like: what: or I would have gotten it the day I got the car. I am not tuned yet, but the way it seems I might just do another tune and the couple times I need to go in I'm sure the tuning guy I know I can give like 20 bucks or so to un-flash and re-flash.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

DasCC said:


> This is typically dealer discretion.. APR is only involved in the sale. Any labor related fee is set by the dealer. My local dealer will do it free IF it can be done via OBDii


My local dealer is asking $125 per trip. The part that's frustrating it is can be flashed with the OBD but, despite what APR has said to the contrary, it requires"going on the lift".


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Seems like there is more activity here when I am asleep than awake lol. 



FLtrooper said:


> If true, I'm sure APR would advertise that flashing back to stock before warranty work will avoid a TD1 flag. I have never seen a APR representative state that the tune is undetectable once flashed back to stock.


That is what they told me, I forgot the gentleman's name. He said once reflashed back to stock, it is undetectable. What I need to know is, is this 110% factual information or a sales pitch. I mean I gues I could request that on paper.



Revolver1966 said:


> Did APR or your dealer tell you there is a flat $25 fee to remove or add the tune ?


My local APR guy said they could reflash it back to and forth and that each time would be 25 bucks which seems cheap enough for me.



DasCC said:


> This is typically dealer discretion.. APR is only involved in the sale. Any labor related fee is set by the dealer. My local dealer will do it free IF it can be done via OBDii


I haven't spoken to my dealership about it only the sales guy. I'd imagine I would need to talk to the service guy's manager there.



PsychoChild said:


> My Local dealership I bought my S3 from was trying to sell me the APR tune, but said the only negative they wanted to charge a $100 un-flash/re-flash fee each time I would come in for service which I was like: what: or I would have gotten it the day I got the car. I am not tuned yet, but the way it seems I might just do another tune and the couple times I need to go in I'm sure the tuning guy I know I can give like 20 bucks or so to un-flash and re-flash.


That makes me think it is undetectable once flashed back to stock.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> Go dig through the forums. Was discussed by Arin about a year ago. They don't advertise that because directly as it is admitting liability on APRs point so they use lawyer talk.


So why isn't this common knowledge?


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

It is to people who were reading about the tunes a year ago. Gotta go back and play catch up


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

I'm surprised no one has said "pay to play" yet, lol. 

Look man this td1 thing drove me nuts as well when I picked up my S3. When I learned how simple it was to tune the car and how much power you can get with no additional mods I WAS SOLD.... until I found out that no one knows for sure or have theories on how or when or if you'll get flagged TD1 when you take your car in for let's say a simple oil change. So many factors come into play I realized. Not just simply which tuner company you use but the audi dealership you use was a big factor, etc. However, I think it's safe to say now that AoA just simply is cracking down on tunes and all dealerships are complying. So if td1 is a concern and you plan to do your oil changes at the dealer, etc. then maybe a tune is not ideal for you. Blame the knuckleheads who used and abused the warranties fantasizing they're in fast and the furious world pushing their cars to the brink of explosion back in the day and here we are with a smarter AoA and us average dudes that want a bit of extra power on the freeways are screwed... 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> It is to people who were reading about the tunes a year ago. Gotta go back and play catch up


I am playing catch up but there are many forums with many threads about the subject and none of reference what you said and neither has any other person in this thread aside from you. I just see a lot of conflicting information lol. I'm trying to like, decipher what I am reading and I am getting burned out here lol. I will attempt to look up that thread you mention, be nice if it was a sticky thread though.



scope213 said:


> I'm surprised no one has said "pay to play" yet, lol.
> 
> Look man this td1 thing drove me nuts as well when I picked up my S3. When I learned how simple it was to tune the car and how much power you can get with no additional mods I WAS SOLD.... until I found out that no one knows for sure or have theories on how or when or if you'll get flagged TD1 when you take your car in for let's say a simple oil change. So many factors come into play I realized. Not just simply which tuner company you use but the audi dealership you use was a big factor, etc. However, I think it's safe to say now that AoA just simply is cracking down on tunes and all dealerships are complying. So if td1 is a concern and you plan to do your oil changes at the dealer, etc. then maybe a tune is not ideal for you. Blame the knuckleheads who used and abused the warranties fantasizing they're in fast and the furious world pushing their cars to the brink of explosion back in the day and here we are with a smarter AoA and us average dudes that want a bit of extra power on the freeways are screwed...
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk


TD1 is a concern for me but if it can be worked around than I'll do it. One such workaround is the box (JB1), which is awesome as an alternative. If APR has a workaround, I'll do it. When you have 5 threads and several users all saying "they will catch you eve if you flash to stock" but you got 1 user saying the contrary along with APR saying the contrary, I just want some clarification. 
I don't plan on blowing up my car and like I mentioned before, I won't be going beyond stage 1 and some suspension upgrades. I just want stage 1 and keep my warranty. I would just like some clarification from other users who have done the flash and flash back to stock and who have then taken their car in for maintenance (tune ups) @ their local dealership and had no issues with it. 

I'm going to keep reading and I'll call my local APR store tomorrow again to get some clarification.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

F9zSlavik said:


> I am playing catch up but there are many forums with many threads about the subject and none of reference what you said and neither has any other person in this thread aside from you. I just see a lot of conflicting information lol. I'm trying to like, decipher what I am reading and I am getting burned out here lol. I will attempt to look up that thread you mention, be nice if it was a sticky thread though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'd suggest sending a message to Arin.


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## scope213 (Feb 19, 2015)

Check out Eurodyne reflash setup....this option at least eliminates the need to go back to the tuner for reflashes. Also, on YouTube zed4me has a thorough review on it as well for his Golf R. 

The piggyback option like the JB1 or Neuspeed pm is probably your best route.


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## LilJonny16 (Jan 13, 2009)

To end this debate, the tuners are not wrong when they say if you flash back to stock, the counter resets. It does indeed reset back to zero. But there is something in the ECU that is tripped/triggered and recorded anytime the ECU is flashed. This is the exact same thing that has been in place for years with cellphones, tablets, and other electronics. If anyone has flashed a Samsung tablet then you know what I'm talking about. You can reset the counter but the fact that the ECU/OS/system change was made is indeed recorded in memory.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

I got a response from Pure. 

"Neither we nor APR offer any guarantees or promises with regards to TD1. VW employs an automated system where a tech plugs in their computer, and a scan is done to check the ECU to see if it's been modified. If the scan detects a modification then the TD1 flag is automatically recorded to the VIN in the VW database. 
Tech's can also manually assign a TD1 label if they see modifications like exhausts, wheels, tires, short shifters, etc. That's up to the discretion of the service department.
In our experience, when we flash a car from APR Stage 1 back to factory stock, the automated process does not trigger a TD1 automated flag.

There are multiple ways a TD1 flag can be assigned to a vin. Flashing it back to stock, at least for now in our experience, will not trigger a TD1."

Thoughts?


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

That's what we have been telling you.


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> That's what we have been telling you.


lmao I guess I know what Scope213 felt like when it was driving him nuts. 

Revolver1966, lol Yeah you have been telling me but I got thrown a curve ball by LilJonny16 by saying the opposite but APR did just confirm it and thought I post it.


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## Revolver1966 (Mar 30, 2014)

F9zSlavik said:


> lmao I guess I know what Scope213 felt like when it was driving him nuts.
> 
> Revolver1966, lol Yeah you have been telling me but I got thrown a curve ball by LilJonny16 by saying the opposite but APR did just confirm it and thought I post it.


My loss of interaction with human beings. on account of spending too much time on here, is your gain!


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## F9zSlavik (Sep 21, 2010)

Revolver1966 said:


> My loss of interaction with human beings. on account of spending too much time on here, is your gain!


I have to give credit where credit is due Mr Revolver1966, again it would seem you were right. I spoke to the GM of Audi of Esco, he simply said if I flash it and take it in flashed, they will simply note it in their system. If there is damage to the engine, they will see the Notes and will try to determine if the flash was responsible for it breaking the car. However, if I flash it back to stock before I take it in, there will be no issues. This is coming from the GM. 

I'll post some pictures and maybe some videos once I do the upgrades. I'm also looking to get the flat steering wheel which is something I fell in love with on my Golf R.


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