# 5-Speed Transmission Swap; (KPF to LPU) on my MKV Rabbit?



## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Question for the transmission gurus: Will a 0A4 (LPU) 5-speed work on my 2009 Rabbit?

My car currently has the 0A4 (KPF) and it has failed and I have already removed it.

Looking for something to put back in that hole.

Didn't know of the different gearing between the boxes.

Thanks in advance.


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

I don't think so.
The 4th gear of the LPU box is almost the same as the 5th gear in the KPF: 0.86 LPU and 0.84 KPF.
The 5th of the LPU is 0.66 
1 and 2 are the same, 3th gears are: 1.36 KPF and 1.27 LPU.
Final reduction is the same.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

I did a little more researching and decided to go with the LPU.

I found a used one out of a 2012 Passat with the 2.5L.










And yes, like you've stated, 4th on the LPU is close to what my current 5th gear is.

It's like losing my current 4th gear, moving 5th in its place and gaining a 6th gear ratio. I believe the 2.5 has enough torque to pull this off because I never have to downshift to pass people when I'm on the highway. My current 5th gear keeps me in the torque band. With the LPU, I'm guessing I'll just have to downshift to 4th to pass on the highways; no big deal.

Regardless, it has already been paired by VW in the Passat with the 2.5L so it can't be that bad. 

I'm ditching the dual-mass flywheel too. The OEM DMF & Clutch worked flawlessly for 192k miles, but it's time to change them and the DMF is super expensive. So I opted to go with a single-mass flywheel (Black Forest Industries Stage 1 Kit).


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## gugu1981 (Jul 25, 2011)

anyone know what transmission/gear ratio is in the 2011+ golf and JSW?

My 2012 JSW's 4th gear sits roughly where my 2010 golf's 5th gear did. Sounds like it might be something very similar to the transmission paired to the 2012 passat?


Peter


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Here are some specs for the 2012 Passat: http://media.vw.com/doc/914/495304608536a8446956a8.pdf

And the same type of document for the 2012 Golf: http://media.vw.com/doc/896/607936091536a7c98d48fc.pdf

Same year, paired with the same engine, same gearing with different finals (3.39 (Golf) vs. 3.65 (Passat))?


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## gugu1981 (Jul 25, 2011)

Thanks le0n

I dug up the 2012 JSW spec

http://media.vw.com/doc/911/551539213536a81d658c65.pdf

Looks like it's the same as the Golf, which is expected. So does that mean the Passat will rev higher?


Peter


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

gugu1981 said:


> Looks like it's the same as the Golf, which is expected. *So does that mean the Passat will rev higher?*


Yes. Because of the different final.

Golf	| Passat | RPM	3000
3.39	| *3.65 * | *3230*

So if the Golf is cruising along at 3000 rpm at a certain speed, the Passat will be at the same speed but at 3230 rpm.


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

le0n said:


> I did a little more researching and decided to go with the LPU.
> 
> I found a used one out of a 2012 Passat with the 2.5L.
> 
> ...


At the end it's a matter of personal taste as a lot of things are.
If You like a gearbox with an overdrive gear the LPU is defenitely a good choise for you.
I personaly don't like an overdrive characteristic.
You mensioned it allready, perhaps you have to downshift to pas other cars on the highway.
I am using my car also in the mountains, the Alpes in Europe, and I like driving there.
A gearbox with an overdrive is no option for me.


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

I did the opposite, I went from the 04A to an 02J, not sure if thats the right code but a 5 speed from an 09. The gearing is way longer in the 04A gearbox. Even with 300+whp it would take FOREVER to run through third, and I never hit the top off 4th. It did 130mph at 7500 RPM in third. 
Now with the 02J third pulls to ~110mph and 4th to 135 ish. The 04A 5th was also swapped into the new tranny which gave me a tall gear for highway cruising. There is a pretty big gap between 4th and 5th but I honestly don't even notice anymore. 

If you want a gearbox for great gas mileage, 04A all the way. But If you want something you can have more fun with then 02J for sure. The shorter gears are much more fun to have a spirited drive with. Regardless, both bolt up just fine.


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## mk6matt (Jan 26, 2013)

04A:


02J with 04A 5th:


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

This is the hybride 02C-02S gearbox in my car (2.5L turboed corrado 4x4 syncro). Gearboxes: CBC (passat syncro), GQM and JWX

1. 3.777 x 3.39 = 12.807
2. 2.06 6.983 
3. 1.45 4.916
4. 1.11 3.763
5. 0.875 2.966 
6. 0.725 2.458

FD. 3.39

Because of the engine power, more than 400 hp, I'll do a 02Q/haldex swap this winter.
This is also a hybride gearbox: GRF x KZV 

1. 3.357 x 3.45 = 11.582
2. 2.087 x 3.45 = 7.200
3. 1.469 x 3.45 = 5.067 
4. 1.088 x 3.45 = 3.754
5. 1.097 x 2.76 = 3.027 
6. 0.912 x 2.76 = 2.516

Tyres: 205 x 45 x16

Driving the car with the hybride 02C/02S gearbox was perfect, engine and gearbox made the car just a real sportscar.
Because of the small difference with de hybride 02Q box I am pretty sure I will have the same fun after the 02Q swap.


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## stef 4x4 (Jan 8, 2012)

stef 4x4 said:


> This is the hybride 02C-02S gearbox in my car (2.5L turboed corrado 4x4 syncro). Gearboxes: CBC (passat syncro), GQM and JWX
> 
> 1. 3.777 x 3.39 = 12.807
> 2. 2.06 6.983
> ...


I think there is something wrong.

I will do the 02C/S gears over.

1. 3.777 x 3.39 = 12.807
2. 2.06 x 3.39 = 6.983
3. 1.45 x 3.39 = 4.916
4. 1.11 x 3.39 = 3.763
5. 0.875 x 3.39 = 2.966
6. 0.725 x 3.39 = 2.458


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

stef 4x4 said:


> At the end it's a matter of personal taste as a lot of things are.
> If You like a gearbox with an overdrive gear the LPU is defenitely a good choise for you.
> I personaly don't like an overdrive characteristic.
> You mensioned it allready, perhaps you have to downshift to pas other cars on the highway.
> ...


^^ Yep. 1st & 2nd are exactly the same. 3rd is very close to what I'm used to.

Houston, TX is very, very, very flat. hah hah. Besides, if I do travel into the hill country, 4th will work just fine as my 5th gear worked wonderfully on my trip to and from Athens Alabama.

With my stock transmission, 70mph in 5th runs at 3000rpm. So i'm looking forward to the lower rpms and reduced cabin noise.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

mk6matt said:


> I did the opposite, I went from the 04A to an 02J, not sure if thats the right code but a 5 speed from an 09. The gearing is way longer in the 04A gearbox. Even with 300+whp it would take FOREVER to run through third, and I never hit the top off 4th. It did 130mph at 7500 RPM in third.
> Now with the 02J third pulls to ~110mph and 4th to 135 ish. The 04A 5th was also swapped into the new tranny which gave me a tall gear for highway cruising. There is a pretty big gap between 4th and 5th but I honestly don't even notice anymore.
> 
> If you want a gearbox for great gas mileage, 04A all the way. But If you want something you can have more fun with then 02J for sure. The shorter gears are much more fun to have a spirited drive with. Regardless, both bolt up just fine.


the 5-speed 0A4 boxes had the 3.65 final gear. With the 0A4 boxes, there are a few different codes with the same gearing. From what I can tell the change was in 2010 with the 3.39 final with the same gear ratios as the previous 0A4 boxes. And in 2012 they brought back the 3.65 final into the 0A4 boxes?

In summary: The same 2.5L engine (hp/tq specs) from 2009 to 2012 was paired with at least 3 variants of the 0A4 transmission.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Forgot to update this thread. 

The transmission swap went perfectly and it mates well in the rabbit.

3rd gear isn't as fun as it used to be, however, my upgraded BFI clutch makes up for it in 1st and 2nd.

Cruising with low rpms on the highway now. Also, I don't even have to downshift as much as I had anticipated; which is nice.


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## paddyb (Sep 26, 2015)

I posted this the other day in another part of the forum but had no reply as yet, then i found your post le0n.

_''I'm looking to replace my transmission (the output shaft decided it wanted to see what the clutch and flywheel were up to and punched a hole through the casing).

I have a Jetta MKV 2.5 ltr 5 speed manual trans code 0A4 - KPF with a 100mm flange

Does anyone know if its possible to fit a transmission of a different code? (I'm having trouble finding a fair priced KPF).

Thanks.'' _

Is your replacement still going strong? and how is it with the solid flywheel compared to the DMF because i have also found that it would be a much cheaper replacement.

This is my first transmission replacement and I'm somewhat of an amateur with vehicle mechanics, however, i have a mechanical background with aviation. 

Thanks.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

It's great. 

The BFI stage 1 clutch kit works great. After the break-in period + 1500 miles, it is so nice.

Just mind the gear ratios + final gear size. There are some transmissions post 2011 that are geared too much for highway and will suck the life out of the driving experience.


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## paddyb (Sep 26, 2015)

Cool, I still don't know if I'm going to fit a solid flywheel or not, I've heard mixed reviews about them.

I think I'm fine with the gear ratios though, tbh I'd rather a bit more overdrive on the highway anyway.

Did you know of any other trans codes that fit?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

2012 5-speed (Jetta, Golf) 0A4-LEA will work too. just find a 2012 model with the gearing below to get a better 'highway' transmission.

1st - 3.78
2nd - 2.12
3rd - 1.27
4th - 0.87
5th - 0.66
rev - 3.60

Final Drive: 3.39

^^ this is the transmission i was referring to. note that it has the same gears as the LPU, however, the final drive is different.

the 2012 Passat w/2.5 was the weird model that had the LPU transmission. i'm guessing it was done to reduce cabin noise at highway speeds, while keeping 1st-3rd where it could move the Passat up to highway speeds.

either way, you'll miss the feeling of the KPF 3rd gear.

* Edits were made. Whiskey plus forums don't always work well. A sober read works wonders, hah hah.


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## paddyb (Sep 26, 2015)

Understood :thumbup: 

Thanks again for the advice, I'll update when I get around to it.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Oh, and in addition to what I stated/edited above, go ahead and get a new slave cylinder fluid line. Mine just failed on me. I can only guess is because I removed and replaced it twice. They are not old-school threaded connections, only push rubber connections with clips.

Pedal hit the floor while coming up to an intersection. The fluid level in the reservoir doesn't have to fall too far (~1/2"?) before your slave cylinder is starved of fluid.


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## paddyb (Sep 26, 2015)

*Update*

I found an 2012 Passat LPU Trans with 36k and have fitted it with a new clutch and flywheel for a very reasonable price,

Took it out for a test run and everything seems to be fine 'touch wood'.

I don't think I would have got around to fixing it if I hadn't found this post.

Thanks again for your advice leon


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ Thanks for the update. 

36k miles is practically new. Good find. 

I like the LPU


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## Icytravis (Feb 5, 2018)

*KPF transmission swap*

Is the LPU the only transmission that can be swapped with the KPF? In reference to a vw rabbit 2009 manual


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Icytravis said:


> Is the LPU the only transmission that can be swapped with the KPF? In reference to a vw rabbit 2009 manual


No. There are other 5-speeds that will fit. Seemingly anything from a 2.5L model.

The only thing you have to keep an eye on is the gear ratios. The KPF ratios are the fun ones 

Also, there are 6-speeds from the GTI/GLI that you can swap in there too.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

le0n said:


> Forgot to update this thread.
> 
> The transmission swap went perfectly and it mates well in the rabbit.
> 
> ...


Thanks for updating - very cool swap! May I ask what RPM you are turning on the highway? That's really interesting. I wouldn't consider a swap like this with my Jetta as it is on the way out, but maybe if I get another Rabbit. I've always found 5th to be a bit too short.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

2300 rpms @ 70 mph in fifth.


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## J.R.Freeman (Apr 19, 2008)

Nice, that's quite low.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

keep in mind that you can always just purchase & swap the 0.66 5th gear into your KPF without removing the transmission.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

4500 rpms @ 70 mph in third
3050 rpms @ 70 mph in fourth
2300 rpms @ 70 mph in fifth

the other set of numbers that are different from the KPF


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## Icytravis (Feb 5, 2018)

Leon is it a direct fit from the KPF to the LPU?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ yes.


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## Benjamin. (Nov 13, 2001)

Bringing this back from the dead to thank OP for all of the great info here. I have a 2008 Rabbit that's been in the family since new, and the close gearing always seemed like a terrible mismatch for the 2.5. It's now being turned into a rallycross car as well as continuing daily driver duties, and is getting a limited slip this winter - I was looking for transmission options for an easy swap, and this is PERFECT. 1-2 being the same is all I need for autocross/rallycross, and the taller 3-4-5 will suit the torque of the 2.5 and gain better gas mileage. 

Add to that, these are more plentiful, cheaper, and lower miles due to being available in much newer cars.


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## WtErKeWlEdUbbEr (Jun 20, 2005)

Benjamin. said:


> Bringing this back from the dead to thank OP for all of the great info here. I have a 2008 Rabbit that's been in the family since new, and the close gearing always seemed like a terrible mismatch for the 2.5. It's now being turned into a rallycross car as well as continuing daily driver duties, and is getting a limited slip this winter - I was looking for transmission options for an easy swap, and this is PERFECT. 1-2 being the same is all I need for autocross/rallycross, and the taller 3-4-5 will suit the torque of the 2.5 and gain better gas mileage.
> 
> Add to that, these are more plentiful, cheaper, and lower miles due to being available in much newer cars.


I have the HGR in my 2006 rabbit which is the closest geared trans in a 2.5. I love it. It’s a great match. Makes it feel really fun to drive. 5th gear pulls easy up hills. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Benjamin. (Nov 13, 2001)

WtErKeWlEdUbbEr said:


> I have the HGR in my 2006 rabbit which is the closest geared trans in a 2.5. I love it. It’s a great match. Makes it feel really fun to drive. 5th gear pulls easy up hills.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't really ever want my top gear to be able to easily pull up hills - I have no issues downshifting for that. I always want a tall top gear for a reasonably torquey engine.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Benjamin. said:


> ...
> Add to that, these are more plentiful, cheaper, and lower miles due to being available in much newer cars.


as you've stated, this isn't going to change anything for your rally-cross needs.

you 'may' get marginally better fuel mileage and save a few dollars on the highway, but not enough to cover the swap costs.

you 'may' get a relaxed feeling when cruising at a lower rpm though; i know i do.

the biggest improvement for 1st and 2nd was from the BFI clutch kit.

in regards to the cost and availability of this transmission, i got mine for ~$600 with 12,000 miles on it.


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## nekkidlad (Oct 4, 2013)

Amazing info. I’ve been wondering aside from a 6spd swap, what/if any other 5spd trans is better suited for fun drives but also good on highway mpg. I drive ~45mins a day on the freeway to/from work everyday I work at 70-80mph...speed limit is 75mph around here. 

I had read a few years back somewhere(when I had a Jetta) the 09 tdi 6speed would be a good fit for this. But like with a gti 6spd swap, that would need new axles and a handful of other things(not to mention a clutch, which is when I’d be potentially be doing this job anyway tho). But with only 60kmi and a brand new trans and clutch from the dealer(free to me - long story), it wouldn’t make much sense to swap it out just for kicks(tho it would have a higher resale value vs an old used one).

Just bought a 08 rabbit in March, has around 140kmi now and the oe clutch(no signs of it being replaced yet, still going strong tho). I might have to think about this whenever I have to replace the clutch. 

When I bought it, I was thinking a 6spd swap when clutch time, but for ~$2k it’s a quite steep. Granted I don’t just have ~$600 laying around either, but ~1/3 price is definitely an easier pill to swallow and I could make some money back from selling the original trans(eventually).

Le0n I know you mentioned you got your trans for $600, what did you end up paying for the whole swap? Also is there any coding/programming required, or just bolt and go?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

nekkidlad said:


> Amazing info. I’ve been wondering aside from a 6spd swap, what/if any other 5spd trans is better suited for fun drives but also good on highway mpg. I drive ~45mins a day on the freeway to/from work everyday I work at 70-80mph...speed limit is 75mph around here.


you can just swap the 5th gear. you don't even have to remove the transmission.

this way you can have your highway gear and all others stay the same.



nekkidlad said:


> Le0n I know you mentioned you got your trans for $600, what did you end up paying for the whole swap? Also is there any coding/programming required, or just bolt and go?


~$1500

edit:
no coding or anything like that.


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## nekkidlad (Oct 4, 2013)

I looked up the procedure on how to do it...I’d rather swap the whole trans...

My luck w car stuff lately I’d snap the jaw pullers and/or the new gears and set the car on fire...


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ hah hah...


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## Stankyspanky (Oct 24, 2021)

le0n said:


> you can just swap the 5th gear. you don't even have to remove the transmission.
> 
> this way you can have your highway gear and all others stay the same.
> 
> ...


Hey Leon, 

Bringing this back front he dead but recently bought a 2010 golf 2.5 with the kpf trans. Long story short the trans is donezo.

So just to clarify, if I can find an Lpu I can directly fit that? While I’m in there I’ll do the clutch and flywheel. 

What other things should I get to make it a smooth swap? I’m having a friend that is a mechanic but no experience with vws just want to make sure I’m doing it right the first time. 

If you can also elaborate on the slave cylinder that would be great! Thanks so much!


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