# APR Presents the TT RS 2.5 TFSI Front Mount Intercooler System!



## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

APR is pleased to present the ultimate Front Mount Intercooler System for the Audi TT RS.

*Product Page*










The APR Intercooler System dramatically lowers charge air temperature and resists heat soak far better the TT RS’s factory intercooler system. Through a massively increased frontal surface area, superior intercooler core design and smooth, cast end tanks, APR’s engineers were able to create an intercooler capable of supporting power levels well beyond that of the factory unit. Expect increased horsepower and torque and dramatically prolonged performance.



Dramatically lowers intake air temperature
Increases horesepower and torque while prolonging performance
APR intercooler core dimensions: 3.00" x 12.70" x 22.25"
OEM intercooler core dimensions 3.19" x 6.38x" x 21.75"
104% more frontal area and 92% larger core compared to stock
Pressure tested for leak proof operation
Smooth cast alumnium end tanks
CNC machined hose connection points
Integrated light weight support brace, horn and sensor brackets
Stealthy black coating does not alter thermal effectiveness
Full install directions and APR's world-renowned customer support
Lifetime warranty


*Intercooler Ambient Air Fins*










Each unit uses a high quality, bar and plate core with staggered and louvered fins. The Intercooler’s exceptionally tall design and fin structure exposes the core to a greater volume of airflow than possible with the factory or similar aftermarket short and thick core designs. With more of the intercooler directly exposed to the elements, cooling effectiveness dramatically increases.

*Intercooler Charge Air Fins*










Internally, the APR Intercooler System features a staggered and louvered fin design with a core density chosen as a balance between cooling effectiveness and pressure drop. Due to the core’s massive volume, the balance was easily adjusted to favor minimal pressure drop while still providing superior effectiveness compared stock and similar to stock designs.

*Intercooler Rear with Support Brace installed*










The intercooler’s maximum size and frontal area is directly related to packaging constraints found at the front end of the vehicle. Intercooler units located in the factory location are design limited resulting in increased volume primarily through expanding the depth of the system. Unfortunately increasing depth only slightly increases the intercoolers effectiveness compared to increased frontal surface area. APR’s Intercooler System includes a reengineered front-end support brace constructed from billet aluminum to maximize packaging constraints. The low profile support brace resides near the factory location and no longer blocks the intercooler from front-end airflow. The bar’s inner design features a weight saving grid, which also aids in airflow through the core.










The intercooler core and brace are both black to remain stealthy behind the TT RS’s massive grille. The black chip and corrosion resistant coating does not alter the thermal effectiveness of the intercooler core. During testing APR’s Engineers were unable to measure a difference in temperature between the coated and non-coated system during both dyno and road tests. This was further backed up with matching dyno performance between coated and uncoated systems equaling each other.










*More Photos : Click to Enlarge*

  

*Testing Data - Dyno*

The Test below demonstrates the intercoolers ability to cool intake air temperature even under brutal conditions. Six back-to-back pulls were preformed with absolutely no cool down between runs. The APR Intercooler’s first run was conducted in slightly worse conditions than the stock intercooler, but it was able to keep the intake air temperature at redline lower than stock even after the sixth back to back pull! The dramatic rise in temperature from the stock intercooler cost the TT RS valuable horsepower on the dyno and averaged over 25 HP less than the APR unit across the six runs.




























*Testing Data - Street*

APR’s Engineers set out to further prove each Intercooler’s effectiveness by testing in real world conditions on the street. Four back-to-back 20-130 mph pulls were conducted with both the factory and APR intercooler unit while various data points were collected with APR’s ECU Explorer data logging suite. While APR’s Engineers made every effort to keep starting temps identical between the two intercoolers, unfortunately conditions worsened while testing the APR unit as ambient temperature increased.

The rise in temperature was still no match for the APR intercooler unit. Pull after pull, the intercooler was able to cool charge air temperature below the actual starting temperature! The stock intercooler unfortunately experienced a rapid temperature increase and on average ran 14C higher than the starting temperature. The intake air temperature results collected on the street mimicked that of the data collected on the dyno further backing the power associated with each unit.










Each system included the intercooler core, support brace, horn bracket, install manual and all necessary hardware for install.

*Application Guide*

Audi TT RS 2.5 TFSI - 6MT or S-Tronic - IC100015 - $1,599.99 - Buy One Now

*Where to Buy*

Please contact an APR dealer using the APR Dealer Locator Tool for a dealer near you. 

Alternatively, you may also purchase the intercooler from our website product page.

Thank you and Go APR!


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

How much will a front plate effect it?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

croman44 said:


> How much will a front plate effect it?


We tried both with and without. Without was better, but the road data above was with the plate blank still in place.


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## 311-in-337 (Feb 19, 2003)

So these are 10% off during your Summer Sale?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

311-in-337 said:


> So these are 10% off during your Summer Sale?


It's $1599.99


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## 311-in-337 (Feb 19, 2003)

[email protected] said:


> It's $1599.99



...which is the sale price?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

The intercooler does not have sales pricing at this time.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

What is the weight of the IC (including the crossbar and everything)?


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Another 2 questions:
1) What was the ambiental temperature on the first graphic (during those 6 dyno runs)
2) On what other cars did you used this core (as the core was not specifically developed for the TT RS I assume) --> I would like to see the results on other cars too.

Thank you


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

It was developed specifically for the TT RS. We have not test fit it on anything else, nor do I think it will fit as is. Ambient temp's were in the 90's F.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> It was developed specifically for the TT RS. We have not test fit it on anything else, nor do I think it will fit as is. Ambient temp's were in the 90's F.


So the core alone (without the crush-bar) can not be found on any other car?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

cipsony said:


> What is the weight of the IC (including the crossbar and everything)?


Stock: 19lbs
APR: 33lbs


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

cipsony said:


> So the core alone (without the crush-bar) can not be found on any other car?


I don't know.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Thanks for the info Arin. It looks nice.


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

Arin, what do you recommend for Stage 2 owners like myself waiting for the Stage 3 kit? Should we just wait? I’d hate to buy the IC now only to find out the Stage 3 kit includes the IC and I’d paid for it twice...


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

OldKenzo said:


> Arin, what do you recommend for Stage 2 owners like myself waiting for the Stage 3 kit? Should we just wait? I’d hate to buy the IC now only to find out the Stage 3 kit includes the IC and I’d paid for it twice...


You can order it now because usually the apr stage 3 kit checkout is versatile as obviously sometimes some people have already got certain bits already if that makes sense.

Check out their 2.0tfsi stage 3 page to see what I mean.


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

Poverty said:


> You can order it now because usually the apr stage 3 kit checkout is versatile as obviously sometimes some people have already got certain bits already if that makes sense.
> 
> Check out their 2.0tfsi stage 3 page to see what I mean.


Ah indeed. I see this on the 2.0tfsi page:
http://www.goapr.com/products/stage3_20_tsi_trans.html

*This kit requires a Midpipe which can be purchased though APR. An Upgraded Intake, Catback Exhaust and Intercooler is Highly recommended.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

OldKenzo said:


> Arin, what do you recommend for Stage 2 owners like myself waiting for the Stage 3 kit? Should we just wait? I’d hate to buy the IC now only to find out the Stage 3 kit includes the IC and I’d paid for it twice...


Stage 3 will not include the intercooler to avoid double purchase like this. : )


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## OldKenzo (Aug 14, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> Stage 3 will not include the intercooler to avoid double purchase like this. : )


Done!


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Might be a good idea to get APR UK, to post some results with the number plate in position ?
It seems like a very good product,but sadly the number plate could kill any benefits for road users in Europe.
Especially for people like me that would be upgrading from a Forge.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> Might be a good idea to get APR UK, to post some results with the number plate in position ?
> It seems like a very good product,but sadly the number plate could kill any benefits for road users in Europe.
> Especially for people like me that would be upgrading from a Forge.


The results are with the number plate in position


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jaybyme said:


> Might be a good idea to get APR UK, to post some results with the number plate in position ?
> It seems like a very good product,but sadly the number plate could kill any benefits for road users in Europe.
> Especially for people like me that would be upgrading from a Forge.


See above. Road data was collected with the plastic blank in place.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

OK thanks
Looks like I'll have to order one to pick up on my next UK trip then 
If I do back to back runs with my Forge, 60 to 150 mph,intakes normally start at around +10c ambient,drop a couple of c then rise to around + 20c,they max out at about +25c ambient.
Going by your graphs intakes would stay at around +10c ambient ?
Being in Germany does have it's benefits,as the intercoolers really get a chance to work above 80 mph.
I wouldn't be surprised if intakes would be as low as +5 or 6 c ambient cruising at 120 mph with your cooler.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

jaybyme said:


> OK thanks
> Looks like I'll have to order one to pick up on my next UK trip then
> If I do back to back runs with my Forge, 60 to 150 mph,intakes normally start at around +10c ambient,drop a couple of c then rise to around + 20c,they max out at about +25c ambient.
> Going by your graphs intakes would stay at around +10c ambient ?
> ...


We tested in "Mexico", but we can't really publish those results. You're about right. They really rock with lots of airflow.


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Hi Arin, could you please post a link to the install instructions? I couldn't find a link on the product page. Thanks!


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

That's a ****load of cash for such a small intercooler/material. 

I just can't see the justification outside of "luxury tax". I understand development/testing, but I have seen just as much on units twice this size, with just as much research/development and they retailed for $800.... 

Price gouging at its most blatent here. APR might have the slickest, and the best, but that doesn't justify the cost to consumers. Especially when revenue would be doubled from sales had a price point been set closer to $1k. 

Disappointed.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> That's a ****load of cash for such a small intercooler/material.
> 
> I just can't see the justification outside of "luxury tax". I understand development/testing, but I have seen just as much on units twice this size, with just as much research/development and they retailed for $800....
> 
> ...


And yet it's cheaper than the competitions inferior offerings 

Lets not forget that people still need to make a living, and this is a US made product, not cheap Chinese that. You are supporting your countries economy


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

AGP is local to me here in AZ and I buy from them. They make outstanding parts, no where near this price mark!


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> AGP is local to me here in AZ and I buy from them. They make outstanding parts, no where near this price mark!


If question the quality of the core they are using then!


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Poverty said:


> If question the quality of the core they are using then!


No, what they are using is fine as any APR produce. ****, I have had thier intercooler on my car since 2005 with no issues at all, no corrosion, no warping etc. 

Face it, it's a luxury tax. We all know it, no use denying it. The market accepts it to they keep doing it.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> No, what they are using is fine as any APR produce. ****, I have had thier intercooler on my car since 2005 with no issues at all, no corrosion, no warping etc.
> 
> Face it, it's a luxury tax. We all know it, no use denying it. The market accepts it to they keep doing it.


Corrosion, warping or the lack of isn't a indication of it being a good quality core just means its not a real ****ty one. You do know some intercoolers will cost 10x the amount of this APR one right. 

The way I see it, this APR product has actually come out at real good value, it's alot cheaper than I expected, and a better design than the competition whilst undercutting them on price.

What you are getting is a product designed from the outset, straight bolt-on which features a high quality core, and a trick coating.

Lets not bitch about price, people do need to make a living, or should everyone work for minimum wage?

Good quality original products I can support, and buying into APR will ensure they will be around for decades to come still making good quality products for our VAG cars.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Don't forget it's a lot more expensive in the UK Poverty.
(not sure why,must be import taxes ?)
about £ 430.00 more than the equivalent Forge,and £ 275.00 more than the Wagner.
This is why I wanted to make sure it has has real benefits over the much cheaper Forge road,and hopefully better than the Forge and Wagner race. 
Looking at it,the quality speaks for it's self,so you expect to pay for that.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Keep on mind the following

1. Our unit is the best
2. Our unit is the largest
3. Our unit has the most frontal surface area
4. Our unit is cast
5. Our unit uses an extremely high quality core made in the USA and tested for leaks
6. Our unit includes a crash bar and DOES NOT require a core charge or shipping units back and forth
7. Our unit doesn't require end user crash bar cutting
8. Our unit is coated with a special material to not disturb thermal effectiveness (it's not just paint)
9. Our unit has a life time warranty
10. Our unit actually works
11. Our unit includes full directions
12. Our unit is backed by our support network
13. We're the only company to really give you tons of data and testing information

If you can get all that from someone else for less, go do it, and go have fun.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Arin
have you any data on boost pressure loss ?
I've sent Evan an email to put one by for me to pick up next time I'm in the UK,so I'll be able to compare it to my current Forge later next month.
Will be interesting to see intakes on the Autobahns 
Any idea if the readings I get from OBD are accurate ?


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Dan.S said:


> That's a ****load of cash for such a small intercooler/material.
> 
> I just can't see the justification outside of "luxury tax". I understand development/testing, but I have seen just as much on units twice this size, with just as much research/development and they retailed for $800....
> 
> ...


Steps for happiness:

1. Sell TTRS
2. Continue to play with dodge neon. 
3. Live happily ever after. 

I sure hope you never have to buy anything else for the car. 
"OMG Neon tie rods are $10 from auto zone wtf."


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

The neon sounds like the American equivalent to a Renault Clio. Brake discs for a Clio sport is 30 pounds, for the TTRS it's over 300 lol.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Poverty said:


> The neon sounds like the American equivalent to a Renault Clio. Brake discs for a Clio sport is 30 pounds, for the TTRS it's over 300 lol.


They have rear manual windows and powered fronts.
A dollar saved is a dollar earned!


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Poverty said:


> The neon sounds like the American equivalent to a Renault Clio.


You really shouldn't insult the Clio like that.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

To me this IC is way too expensive.
- What was the development? Attaching an already existing IC to a bar?
- Where are the connection points from the lower part? that the OEM IC and Wagner and Forge have? I think you should have kept them.
Price: Wagner EVO 2 = 1290 USD and this performs very good.
I heard Loba is also working on a new IC for TT RS.

Sorry, but seeing the price of the 2.0 tfsi parts (which are very good) I expected something much lower for this IC. I can't even imagine what would be the price to go with stage 3 (complete set of parts) if you started with this basic design at a huge price.

I can buy a similar IC myself and weld a similar bar behind it --> It's not rocket science

Even though TT RS owners tend to have a good financial situation, getting unjustified money from them is not an easy task IMHO


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

You people saying parts made and designed the same way, should have different price points based on the car they are for are the reason this will not end lol.

you can claim differences all you want, but its scant. (Within reason and regarding performance parts)


Materials are the same, performance same.... And you clowns are happy with that lol?

Not knocking APR, as they have awesome parts. I have no problem paying for the performance, I can afford it. The difference is, I know what being fair is, and what being able to take advantage of customers is. 

Of course the logic behind the pricing is reguarding the mean income of consumers who would buy thier parts, and how much they could get them to pay for a part before its too much and they turn away. To me, you have succeeded in finding that limit.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

cipsony said:


> To me this IC is way too expensive.


Really? Don't buy it. 



> - What was the development? Attaching an already existing IC to a bar?


Well, that's insulting to say the least. However, it doesn't even make any sense either. "Already existing bar?" Everything we've created we created from the ground up. Nothing was "already existing". We even spec the core size down to the fin pitch. 



> - Where are the connection points from the lower part? that the OEM IC and Wagner and Forge have? I think you should have kept them.


We don't agree. The OEM connection points at the lower part of the intercooler are design necessary for the stock intercooler. Our intercoolers design is vastly different, mounts to the included stress bar and is not even in the exact same location as the OEM intercooler due to its size and additional available room due to the included stress bar. It absolutely does not make sense to include the oem connection points. It would be unnecessary added weight.



> Price: Wagner EVO 2 = 1290 USD and this performs very good.


Ours performs better, is larger and includes a FULL new stress brace rather than a cut and welded crash bar. Our bar is completely across the entire front end and does not rely on the tiny intercooler fins for structural integrity. It's simply NOT the same. 

Our kit includes the bar, and does not require any core charge or shipping back and forth to our headquarters. 

The OEM crash bar is $700. I suspect many require a core to limit costs to the end user. 



> Sorry, but seeing the price of the 2.0 tfsi parts (which are very good) I expected something much lower for this IC.


Logically that doesn't make much sense. 

The FSI Intercooler is $1049, is not coated and doesn't include a crash bar. It's a high volume item since 2007 and fits over 10 vehicles from Audi, VW, Seat and Skoda and works with several different engines. 

The TT RS Intercooler is coated (Adds cost), includes an ENTIRE stress brace assembly (Adds cost - the oem part is $700!) and works for a 1 single engine on 1 model which happens to be an extremely low volume vehicle. 



> I can buy a similar IC myself and weld a similar bar behind it --> It's not rocket science


Sorry, no. 

The bar isn't just a bar. It's fully CNC machined aluminum piece with a cut out pattern to promote airflow and limit weight. 

The core is extremely high quality, and expensive on it's own, even with our massive buying power over the years with the manufacturer. It's produced in the USA, tested before sent to us, and tested after assembly. We spec the size and core density and it's to the absolute maximum of what would fit behind the grill. 

The end tanks are cast in the USA, machined in house, welded together in house and the final produce is then coated black for a stealthy look behind the grill.

You cannot mimic this design for cheaper. 



> Even though TT RS owners tend to have a good financial situation, getting unjustified money from them is not an easy task IMHO


I completely agree, and therefor expect this to sell exceptionally well - especially based off of initial demand directly following the launch and leading up to today. Smart people buy good products, especially those which are completely justifiable to own and the APR Intercooler fits the bill.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Dan.S said:


> Of course the logic behind the pricing is reguarding the mean income of consumers who would buy thier parts, and how much they could get them to pay for a part before its too much and they turn away. To me, you have succeeded in finding that limit.


That's not how we do it. 

Our price is derived from OUR cost to produce and distribute the intercooler. At the end of the day we'll make very little on this item. The same cannot be said for others in this industry. Some of the cheaply made items out there sell for nearly the same price as our own, in the TT RS arena and others. It absolutely blows my mind how much money some companies make on these products - in the magnitude of 100% over cost in some situations. 

Our costs may be high, but are margins are low because we're using high quality components that cost us more. In reality, if one were to calculate the cost to manufacture, produce and distribute the product, you'd see we've done an exceptional job of providing value for very little profit in return.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Well, I wish you well in the returns on this unit then. But I can't see the justification as you claim. 

As well as NOT allowing customers who do NOT want a crash bar, and who do NOT want the cooler coated those options, which would save consumers cost. 

That right there is a market designed to charge as much as you can for a product, slapping options on a part most do not wan or need, and saying tough ****.

Silly.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Dan.S said:


> Well, I wish you well in the returns on this unit then. But I can't see the justification as you claim.
> 
> As well as NOT allowing customers who do NOT want a crash bar, and who do NOT want the cooler coated those options, which would save consumers cost.
> 
> ...


Sorry, we're not going to offer the unit without the crash bar / front structural brace. This does not seem like a logical move or necessarily safe move, nor would the intercooler mount to the vehicle without this piece, meaning additional bracketry would need to be created. 

The option to coat it came after overwhelming feedback from our customer base. We don't have it available without the coating listed on our website at this moment, but it's something we may offer in the future if demand is there.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Dan.S said:


> most do not want or need, and saying tough ****.


Lets put up a poll, do you really think anybody but you wants a bare intercooler that they can zip tie behind the grill and look ****ty?


Anyone else?


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Dan.S said:


> Well, I wish you well in the returns on this unit then. But I can't see the justification as you claim.
> 
> As well as NOT allowing customers who do NOT want a crash bar, and who do NOT want the cooler coated those options, which would save consumers cost.
> 
> ...


That's ridiculous. Why would APR even bother selling a part like that when there are alternatives on the market. APR produced a high-end part that solves multiple issues with other offerings, namely a larger IC in the airflow without compromising the front crash bar as other solutions do. If you don't want those features then buy a cheaper part.

I don't agree with some of the things APR has done recently, as I've stated in several threads, but I think the whining about the FMIC is unwarranted.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

joneze93tsi said:


> Lets put up a poll, do you really think anybody but you wants a bare intercooler that they can zip tie behind the grill and look ****ty?
> 
> 
> Anyone else?


Zip tie.... Listen, don't be a tool. I'm pretty sure just as EVERY other intercooler manufacturer on the planet can do, you can have connections not on a crash bar. 

But I guess only APR does it the right way??? GTFO with that nonsense. The TTRS is the only car I have seen where manufacturers even think of including a crash bar as mandatory. 

Nobody else seems to require it, and everyone else with every other car is just fine with that, BUT NOT APR OR AUDI OWNERS???!

And APR is the ONLY manufacturer that makes the coatin the only option. (That I have done buisness with or researched)

So, yeah, there are plenty of ways to facilitate without that unrequired, costly crap.


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## joneze93tsi (Aug 8, 2008)

Dan.S said:


> Zip tie.... Listen, don't be a tool. I'm pretty sure just as EVERY other intercooler manufacturer on the planet can do, you can have connections not on a crash bar.
> 
> But I guess only APR does it the right way??? GTFO with that nonsense. The TTRS is the only car I have seen where manufacturers even think of including a crash bar as mandatory.
> 
> ...




Holy **** you are right, just check this out:

http://tinyurl.com/l3mekvy

We are all being taken for a ride!

Aaron, I highly suggest you re-think your price strategy given these developments.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

My opinions are that, mine. APR isn't the deafacto leader in this segment of FMICs. Other succesfull companies have made logical options for customers with great success, with logical pricing points. Feel free to do as you wish. I myself, shall await a company more interested in providing customers with options, and reasonable prices, instead of a no compromise situation.


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

It is more expensive than I thought it would be. 

So it has moved from something that I thought I was going to get to something that now I will probably skip. 

The only way I would do it now is if the stage 3 kit actually has a reasonable price when it's released, however after seeing the price of this, I so not hold much hope for that. 

Well maybe one day if they allow it to go on sale. That brings up the thought that I am surprised they are not allowing it to be on sale now with the current promotion. It could double as an introductory sale for the item or maybe a "thank you for being patient with us" sale for those that have the tune and have had to deal with its issues for months. (Would be a nice gesture).


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Yet I'm the only one who has an issue with this...

And we're just the few posting, imagine all the others who just lurk or go to the website lol.


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

It seems to me the debate about what APR should or should not charge is irrelevant. For me, the simple answer is to let the market be the judge. Dan will be proven correct if the product does not sell. Most of the others will be proven correct if APR cannot keep up with demand. 

The parts of the conversation that revolve around the actual quality of the APR intercooler vs other options is helpful. 

Having said all that, $1599 is going to be a little difficult to justify for my personal value proposition. Just my .02 about the crash bar. I would not buy an intercooler that compromised the safety configuration of the car. I have kids who need a dad and they also ride in the car with me.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> Zip tie.... Listen, don't be a tool. I'm pretty sure just as EVERY other intercooler manufacturer on the planet can do, you can have connections not on a crash bar.
> 
> But I guess only APR does it the right way??? GTFO with that nonsense. The TTRS is the only car I have seen where manufacturers even think of including a crash bar as mandatory.
> 
> ...


I think you are unable to appreciate this product fully as you aren't aware of how the TTRS OEM intercooler and crashbar is packaged.

There is no other logical way to secure the intercooler other than with the crash bar.

Because of the packaging constraints I've also seen some aftermarket companies sell intercoolers that had no real improvement over OEM. And some of them eventually went back to the drawing board and had to incorporate a crash bar within the intercooler.

And lastly all modern cars have crash bars, without one, your engine could end up on your lap if you crashed, or in a smaller impact you will more easily damage the chassis.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

I don't see what the problem is here. If you don't like the coating then don't buy the product. If you don't like the crash bar then don't buy the product. If you don't like the price point then don't buy the product. 

Buy a Wagner or Forge...which you could have already done because both have been on the market for a while now.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

joneze93tsi said:


> Holy **** you are right, just check this out:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/l3mekvy
> 
> ...


Nooooooooo!!!!!!

How do I contact ebay and get that link removed. We're ruined!


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Poverty said:


> And lastly all modern cars have crash bars, without one, your engine could end up on your lap if you crashed, or in a smaller impact you will more easily damage the chassis.



Firstly, let me say I value what you say based on your experience and history with our car. But, I just don't buy the fact that what is provided is the only course.

I have run an intercooler that had required the removal of my crash bar forthe last 7 years without issues. Of course nobody plans on crashing, or an unfortunate incident. But that's the fact, pretty sure I'm good to go. If that's the only way to mount it, EVER, so be it, but, I reserve my right to doubt it. Ill know when I take my for t clip off.

(Now the chorus of all the people saying its idiotic, like its the first time they have heard of removing the front crash bar)

To those I say, you new? Lol.

Ill let you know what I find out when I get a local shop to get on board with another view. 

Options breed competitive advancments after all.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

Dan.S, 

You're opinion was heard and the next steps on your end are quite simple. If you don't feel the bar is necessary, purchase something else or keep your stock intercooler.

APR's goal is to sell a product which we've determined is the best. We're not in the market to compromise to scoop up every last sale. Quite simply, we don't care about the sale if it means going against our better judgement. We understand you and some others will disagree and we accept this reality.

Thank you,

-Arin


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

Dan.S said:


> I have run an intercooler that had required the removal of my crash bar forthe last 7 years without issues. Of course nobody plans on crashing, or an unfortunate incident. But that's the fact, pretty sure I'm good to go. If that's the only way to mount it, EVER, so be it, but, I reserve my right to doubt it. Ill know when I take my for t clip off.


Fact, there are already other intercooler solutions that you can purchase today that you can run without a crash bar. Why not go buy one instead of complaining about the price of a product that includes a bar?


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> Firstly, let me say I value what you say based on your experience and history with our car. But, I just don't buy the fact that what is provided is the only course.
> 
> I have run an intercooler that had required the removal of my crash bar forthe last 7 years without issues. Of course nobody plans on crashing, or an unfortunate incident. But that's the fact, pretty sure I'm good to go. If that's the only way to mount it, EVER, so be it, but, I reserve my right to doubt it. Ill know when I take my for t clip off.
> 
> ...


So what you are in essence saying is that, you only value your life at a few hundred "bucks"


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## 311-in-337 (Feb 19, 2003)

croman44 said:


> It is more expensive than I thought it would be.
> 
> So it has moved from something that I thought I was going to get to something that now I will probably skip.
> 
> ...



This is my only complaint. We have been waiting all this time, and can’t be rewarded for our patients. I think APR is the only company I have seen that doesn’t do an "introductory sale" for their new products. Hell, they are frigging excluding the TTRS intercooler during their "10% off INTERCOOLER SALE".

Toss us a fricking bone here.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

311-in-337 said:


> This is my only complaint. We have been waiting all this time, and can’t be rewarded for our patients. I think APR is the only company I have seen that doesn’t do an "introductory sale" for their new products. Hell, they are frigging excluding the TTRS intercooler during their "10% off INTERCOOLER SALE".
> 
> Toss us a fricking bone here.


I realize that y'all might not believe this, but we actually are. Our TT-RS intercooler is really expensive to make.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Poverty said:


> So what you are in essence saying is that, you only value your life at a few hundred "bucks"


Because every other manufacturer as such is an idiot, and APR is the only one looking out for us... I guess the last 20 years in product development from every other, have been an utter failure for us.

All I ask for is a performance product, let me worry about my safety in my own way, pretty sure I'm a big boy and can handle that. 


After all, all these parts we modify with are intended for track use only, and not meant for general road usage. Plain and simple right there.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

any chance we could get a dyno pull with the FMIC, RSC exhaust and the revised stage 2 tune all together? I realize this is a time investment and you may not have the components on a car together with the tune but it would be interesting to see all 3 APR components together on a dyno. 

just a thought.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> Because every other manufacturer as such is an idiot, and APR is the only one looking out for us... I guess the last 20 years in product development from every other, have been an utter failure for us.
> 
> All I ask for is a performance product, let me worry about my safety in my own way, pretty sure I'm a big boy and can handle that.
> 
> ...


then buy a wagner or forge and be done with it...


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Lol, that's not the point. We're discussing APRs product here. I don't care about the others lol. I can voice my opinions, and I'm not being rude about it. It's what forums are for after all.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> Lol, that's not the point. We're discussing APRs product here. I don't care about the others lol. I can voice my opinions, and I'm not being rude about it. It's what forums are for after all.


I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just saying the point is all of the problems you have with this product:

1) price
2) crash bar
3) color

have all already been addressed by other manufacturers. So, purchase one of their products and be done with it and let others that might be interested in this product discuss it.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

APR,

Do you have plans to produce an intercooler of any shape that doesn't require crash bar replacement or modification? I'm waiting for the stage 3 kit, but I can't modify the crash bar for insurance reasons and my own safety.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

CarbonRS said:


> APR,
> 
> Do you have plans to produce an intercooler of any shape that doesn't require crash bar replacement or modification? I'm waiting for the stage 3 kit, but I can't modify the crash bar for insurance reasons and my own safety.


Sorry, no. This is all we plan to offer.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

lpriley32 said:


> I'm not going to argue with you. I'm just saying the point is all of the problems you have with this product:
> 
> 1) price
> 2) crash bar
> ...


So because someone has a differing view we shouldn't discuss the topic of the thread, SMFH lol.


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> So because someone has a differing view we shouldn't discuss the topic of the thread, SMFH lol.


http://www.wagner-tuning.com/AUDI-TT-RS-RS3-EVO-Upgrade-Intercooler_p_32.html

http://www.forgemotorsport.com/content.asp?inc=product&cat=010604&product=FMINT2TTRS


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## croman44 (Jan 9, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Sorry, no. This is all we plan to offer.


Ok so this whole question has me worried. 

Is this IC changing something that could result in us having issues with our insurance?


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

croman44 said:


> Ok so this whole question has me worried.
> 
> Is this IC changing something that could result in us having issues with our insurance?


No, because we're not cutting up or removing the bar. We built a brand new one that also allows inter-cooler mounting. But, it's no less of a bar than the OEM piece, probably better.

Compared to other solutions which modify the factory bar, ours is much safer.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Dan.S,
> 
> APR's goal is to sell a product which we've determined is the best.
> 
> -Arin


Based on what you determined this? 

Those who will buy this IC can make a very basic test to understand it's strength: Attach one end to the car in it's place and fix it with the 4 screws --> Leave the other end not fixed. After this you should try to rotate the unfixed end with your hand --> see how strong it is and if it can sustain the chassis vibrations (torsional vibrations) + a possible impact. 

I think you will understand what I mean when doing this simple test.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> No, because we're not cutting up or removing the bar. We built a brand new one that also allows inter-cooler mounting. But, it's no less of a bar than the OEM piece, probably better.
> 
> Compared to other solutions which modify the factory bar, ours is much safer.


Based on what?


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Same test can be made with the OEM crashbar and screws removed from one end.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Unfortunately in Ontario you can have your claim denied if you modify safety features of a vehicle. I know a couple people who had solutions like this that looked excellent, but failed to perform in an accident. The stock piece may look like simple stamped steel, but its ability to transfer energy into the main frame rails and away from you is better than any aftermarket piece that hasn't been modeled and crash tested. Not to slam APR, but a straight bar is probably the worst idea. It will quickly fold and pull the 2 frame rails it is connected to into the engine bay, applying forces they weren't designed for and causing even more frame damage than necessary. The OEM arch like shape is intentional, initially transferring the crash energy to the frame rails, then upon failure, it will buckle inward, but won't apply any tension between the two frame rails because the length of the arch piece is longer.

Anyway, I really wanted an APR intercooler but now I might just gamble and have Bell make one up. Maybe I missed it, what kind of air flow is the core rated for? Even though it won't be as efficient, I'd like to match it so I'm ready for the stage 3 kit.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

cipsony said:


> Based on what?


Based on the fact that we're not cutting up the factory bar.

I'm not a mechanical engineer and I didn't work on this. But, the guy that did sits right next to me. They went through a lot of design iterations to get this thing right. Obviously, we haven't crashed a TT-RS to test, but ours should perform quite similarly to the stock bar.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

CarbonRS said:


> but its ability to transfer energy into the main frame rails and away from you is better than any aftermarket piece that hasn't been modeled and crash tested.


Admittedly, we didn't crash test it. But, we did model the heck out of it. The center of our bar will fail at approximately the same loading and in the same direction (shaped like a V) and the welds at the end will fail.

End result is pretty comparable to the stock one.

Edit: I don't know anything about the rules in Ontario either with the highway authority or insurance companies. If you can send me some documentation, I'll pass it along to our lawyer who will happily do the research and figure out where we fall. If there's some paperwork we can do to make this product more appealing in Canada, we'll happily do it. For several EU countries, we have to get TUV approval (yes, yes... I know.. let the hilarity ensue... TUV certified APR products).


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Look at all this interesting discussion on this issue... And to think people were telling me it was pointless lol.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

lpriley32 said:


> I don't see what the problem is here. If you don't like the coating then don't buy the product. If you don't like the crash bar then don't buy the product. If you don't like the price point then don't buy the product.
> 
> Buy a Wagner or Forge...which you could have already done because both have been on the market for a while now.


In the same way, if you like the product you can buy it and don't have to read these posts.
The main purpose of a forum is not to sell products but to discuss about them.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

cipsony said:


> In the same way, if you like the product you can buy it and don't have to read these posts.
> The main purpose of a forum is not to sell products but to discuss about them.


Thank you for that. Exactly my point. We dont all have to agree to be able to discuss. How boring would that world be lol.:sly:


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## lpriley32 (Jul 28, 2012)

cipsony said:


> In the same way, if you like the product you can buy it and don't have to read these posts.
> The main purpose of a forum is not to sell products but to discuss about them.


The questions about the legal issues raised about insurance claims due to adjusting the crash bar...now that is something to be discussed. The questions about the structural integrity of a flat crash bar as opposed to the curved OEM crashbar...that is also something to discuss. 

Your personal reasons for not liking a product when there are multiple options available on market that address your concerns are not issues to discuss.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Admittedly, we didn't crash test it. But, we did model the heck out of it. The center of our bar will fail at approximately the same loading and in the same direction (shaped like a V) and the welds at the end will fail.
> 
> End result is pretty comparable to the stock one.
> 
> Edit: I don't know anything about the rules in Ontario either with the highway authority or insurance companies. If you can send me some documentation, I'll pass it along to our lawyer who will happily do the research and figure out where we fall. If there's some paperwork we can do to make this product more appealing in Canada, we'll happily do it. For several EU countries, we have to get TUV approval (yes, yes... I know.. let the hilarity ensue... TUV certified APR products).


Thanks Sean, I'm not an expert on insurance or laws in Canada, it is just one of those things you don't do and people that do always get burned on. Insurance companies are tough on any mods though and can even deny you coverage if they find you modified the vehicle. Your lawyer would probably know more than I would!

It is cool to see you put some thought into the design of the piece as a crash bar, hopefully it sells well for you. Now if you guys could make one that doesn't modify the crash bar, even if it doesn't perform as well, that would be greeeaat. Edit: Sorry to get off topic, but I'd be willing to test a Canadian prototype too  (No need to get fancy with cast end tanks either)


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

CarbonRS said:


> Thanks Sean, I'm not an expert on insurance or laws in Canada, it is just one of those things you don't do and people that do always get burned on. Insurance companies are tough on any mods though and can even deny you coverage if they find you modified the vehicle. Your lawyer would probably know more than I would!
> 
> It is cool to see you put some thought into the design of the piece as a crash bar, hopefully it sells well for you. Now if you guys could make one that doesn't modify the crash bar, even if it doesn't perform as well, that would be greeeaat. Edit: Sorry to get off topic, but I'd be willing to test a Canadian prototype too  (No need to get fancy with cast end tanks either)


You will want the forge street then or awe intercooler. But the awe product, now that really is pricey for what you are getting.


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## 311-in-337 (Feb 19, 2003)

Poverty said:


> You will want the forge street then or awe intercooler. But the awe product, now that really is pricey for what you are getting.



Actually...


*Wagner* - $650 (no modify crash bar)

*Wagner* - $1250 (Evo 2) (modified crach bar)

*AWE * - $995 (cast end tanks) (no modify crash bar)

*AWE * - $1,499 (CNC end tanks) (no modify crash bar)

*Forge* - $1,150 (no modify crash bar)

*Forge* - $1,400 (modifed crash bar)


So Forge has the most expensive non-modified crash bar option.


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

*Intercooler**Crash Bar**Crash Bar Core Exchange?**Color**Thickness**Height**Width**Volume**Frontal Surface Area**Price*StockStockn/aBlack3.190"6.380"21.750"442.660"³138.765"²n/aAPRNew Complete Bar IncludedNoBlack3.000"12.700"22.250"*847.725"³**282.575"²* $1,599.00AWE CastStockn/aBlack6.000"5.785"22.000"763.620"³127.270"² $995.00 AWE BilletStockn/aBlack6.000"5.785"22.000"763.620"³127.270"² $1,499.00 Wagner V1Stockn/aBlack4.330"6.299"21.062"574.459"³132.670"² $650.00 Wagner V2Modified Stock, Middle Missing, Welded to IC???Black3.740"10.230"21.062"805.836"³215.464"² $1,290.00 Forge V1Stockn/aSilver5.900"5.900"22.047"767.456"³130.077"² $1,150.00 Forge V1Stockn/aBlack5.900"5.900"22.047"767.456"³130.077"² $1,250.00 Forge V2Modified Stock, Cut in Half???Black3.740"8.858"20.866"691.268"³184.831"² $1,400.00 


Negating everything about quality of castings, quality of the core, and so on, here's a break down.

What you may find interesting is Forge's new intercooler has less volume than their older thick intercooler, the one that doesn't modify the crash bar and which is similar in design to the AWE and Wagner V1 intercoolers. 

The reason I bring this up is becasue their new intercooler preforms better than the thin and thick one. Reason? Frontal surface area! It makes a very large difference. 

That said, guess which intercooler has the largest surface area? That's right. The APR IC coming in at 282.575 Inches Squared.


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## Poverty (Feb 17, 2012)

311-in-337 said:


> Actually...
> 
> 
> *Wagner* - $650 (no modify crash bar)
> ...


Yes I need to remember this is mainly a US forum and not UK one and pricing is different.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

[email protected] said:


> That said, guess which intercooler has the largest surface area? That's right. The APR IC coming in at 282.575 Inches Squared.


This is why I love your cooler, and why I'm disappointed at the same time. I love you went huge! I just wish it had the other aspects I was looking for.


Frontal area before:










Frontal area after:










Granted, APRs is prettier, but that's not what matters to me lol.


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## carl44 (Nov 23, 2012)

Does increased volume add to turbo lag? thanks carl


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

carl44 said:


> Does increased volume add to turbo lag? thanks carl


Not necisarilly... You might get a pressure drop, meaning the pressure from the turbo is at 20psi going into the cooler, and could be ~18/19psi (for reference info) on the outflow depending on core and end tank flow. That is realy the biggest problems besides heat sink.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

what is the pressure drop with the new APR cooler. ?

these were posted on the German forum, as it seems HGR get too much pressure drop with an aftermarket cooler and Loba turbo ??
Hohenester LLK
Serien LLK
Wagner LLK

Druckverlust
0,07 - 0,08 bar
ca. 0,10 bar
0,23 – 0,26 bar

Temp. Zunahme
30°-58° in 14,98 sek.
50°-85° in 7,45 sek.
50°-85° in 9,7 sek.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

My car is the test mule. See my thread just posted today.

Regarding structure- I'm an engineer in the nuclear field. Ic an't talk to Canadian safety standards (and neither can any other manufacturer IMO), but the mounting bar is billets and welded construction, massive (I've seen it in person at the shop) and not some sheet metal or a flimsy stamping. I know of no after-market desinger who in-fact gets national crash testing done. Germany TUV certifies many things, but I am not aware of what TUV requires in this case.

The product performs. Again, see my butt dyno thread and enjoy.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

joneze93tsi said:


> holy **** you are right, just check this out:
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/l3mekvy
> 
> ...


lmfao-


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

carl44 said:


> Does increased volume add to turbo lag? thanks carl


The increased volume does alter spool.

Here's the stock intercooler vs the APR intercooler. It's a 4th gear pull from 2000 RPM showing how quickly boost builds against time in seconds. The spool rate is nearly identical, but as you can see, it's slightly slower with the larger APR intercooler.

The intercooler is much larger than stock, roughly double in size, but through appropriate end tank design and core selection, negatives from the addition of increased volume are reduced as much as physically possible. 

Reviewing some of the data, despite slightly less boost pressures with the APR intercooler in place (as seen in the graph below), IAT's are significantly reduced. In doing so, ignition is advanced further allowing more power to be made.


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

That's not too bad... Not like you'll be able to feel the difference there in actuall real world runs.


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## [email protected] (Dec 14, 2012)

Dan.S said:


> That's not too bad... Not like you'll be able to feel the difference there in actuall real world runs.


Having driven the crap out of TT-RS with and without our I/C.. I'll say that you can't feel the difference in spool. The difference in performance by the 4th pull is,however, very obvious.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Having driven the crap out of TT-RS with and without our I/C.. I'll say that you can't feel the difference in spool. The difference in performance by the 4th pull is, however, very obvious.



Because. APR. 

The repeated pulls I made on mine and the APR Stage 3 support this conclusion. Heat soak is minimal, and for a track junkie that is critical. Especially in Georgia!


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## Dan.S (Jan 3, 2012)

Heat soak is a constant problem here in AZ. Midnight temps of 100+. Sucks the life out of te car. When it gets down to 85, it feels like a badass again lol.


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## InTTruder (Mar 28, 2006)

I ran autocross out at the ol dInternational Raceway near Goodyear. How well I know!


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## jpkeyzer (Aug 24, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> *Intercooler**Crash Bar**Crash Bar Core Exchange?**Color**Thickness**Height**Width**Volume**Frontal Surface Area**Price*StockStockn/aBlack3.190"6.380"21.750"442.660"³138.765"²n/aAPRNew Complete Bar IncludedNoBlack3.000"12.700"22.250"*847.725"³**282.575"²* $1,599.00AWE CastStockn/aBlack6.000"5.785"22.000"763.620"³127.270"² $995.00 AWE BilletStockn/aBlack6.000"5.785"22.000"763.620"³127.270"² $1,499.00 Wagner V1Stockn/aBlack4.330"6.299"21.062"574.459"³132.670"² $650.00 Wagner V2Modified Stock, Middle Missing, Welded to IC???Black3.740"10.230"21.062"805.836"³215.464"² $1,290.00 Forge V1Stockn/aSilver5.900"5.900"22.047"767.456"³130.077"² $1,150.00 Forge V1Stockn/aBlack5.900"5.900"22.047"767.456"³130.077"² $1,250.00 Forge V2Modified Stock, Cut in Half???Black3.740"8.858"20.866"691.268"³184.831"² $1,400.00


Arin - do you have the weight of each product?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

jpkeyzer said:


> Arin - do you have the weight of each product?


I don't.


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

OEM = 3.2 kg
Forge road = 7.5 kg


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

Forge race (with crash bar included) > 15 Kg
Forge street + OEM crash bar = 13.2 Kg
Wagner evo 2 (with crash bar included) = 10.1 Kg
APR (with crash bar included) = probably more than 13 Kg


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

Could of done with the new APR cooler on my car yesterday.
36c ambients and pushing hard on the Autobahns saw intakes at max 63c.
I had two passengers and 70 kg of luggage in the car but still manged to leave a 911 GTS,which was cool.


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## Williamttrs (Mar 29, 2013)

jaybyme said:


> Could of done with the new APR cooler on my car yesterday.
> 36c ambients and pushing hard on the Autobahns saw intakes at max 63c.
> I had two passengers and 70 kg of luggage in the car but still manged to leave a 911 GTS,which was cool.


Sweet!


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## jaybyme (Aug 29, 2012)

I don't know why, but I only meet worthy competition on the autobahns when the car is full with luggage, the mrs and daughter.
My daughter has no problems,but the mrs always gets worried when I go above 220 km/h.
It's different if she is driving though,but that's fair enough.I'm not a good passenger either.
My car goes well, so i haven't been left behind yet.
I really want to meet an R8 V10 on the autobahn.Porsches are getting boring,but there again I haven't come across a 911 turbo yet.


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## cipsony (Mar 26, 2013)

I think something is missing from the APR IC :wave:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

cipsony said:


> I think something is missing from the APR IC :wave:


 ?


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## [email protected] (Jul 29, 2008)

cipsony said:


> I think something is missing from the APR IC :wave:


It's not. 

The photos I took were from a pre production kit. At the time, it was all I had to take photos of while we production units were being powder coated for the release. The production part has the correct mounting hole for the tow hook and relocation brackets for the factory horns. 

So, nothing's missing.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Has anyone done a tow hook license plate relocation?


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

that's what i'm planing once i get this


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