# The New Audi A6 allroad – the Avant for Any Kind of Road



## [email protected] (Apr 9, 2004)

The first two generations of the allroad quattro from the years 2000 and 2006 were winners, and Audi hopes to build on this success with the third generation. Universally talented, the new A6 allroad quattro extends the range of uses for the A6 Avant because when the asphalt ends, it just keeps on driving. Performance has improved and fuel consumption has been reduced by as much as 20 percent compared with the previous model.

* Full Story *


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

yay.
another cool thing Audi makes but I can't have.
I swear they must laugh at the US market


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

FractureCritical said:


> yay.
> another cool thing Audi makes but I can't have.
> I swear they must laugh at the US market


Well, we both know that Audi doesn't laugh at the US market and it's purely a business decision. However for most folks the A4 allroad will be good enough. It will cost less and get better mpg. OTOH super-sized Americans might have difficulty squeezing their fat backsides into an A4 sized allroad


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## KrUsTyX (Sep 2, 2001)

Sorry, but A4 Avant is no good for a family with 2 kids... Been there, and now with my A6 Avant, its perfect (with the roofbox).

I'll have to look into something else


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

KrUsTyX said:


> Sorry, but A4 Avant is no good for a family with 2 kids... Been there, and now with my A6 Avant, its perfect (with the roofbox).
> 
> I'll have to look into something else


The new E Class with the rear facing 3rd rw seats is pretty nice.

I love Audi, but they seem intent to drive away stick shifters to BMW and wagon lovers to M-B and Subaru.

Who is Audi selling to now? 
People who drive automatic sedans and Suv's?
5 years from now, they'll be wringing their hands after the Chinese market drops (and it will)
10 years from now, they'll be trying to get the average buyer age down in the US
15 years from nowm they'll have lost any standing in the market and will be compared directly against Buicks and Acuras (isnt' that where they were not so long ago?)


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

KrUsTyX said:


> Sorry, but A4 Avant is no good for a family with 2 kids...


Sure it is. Just get a roof rack and strap the little critters down. They might even enjoy it :laugh:


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

SoSuMi said:


> Sure it is. Just get a roof rack and strap the little critters down. They might even enjoy it :laugh:


You know you say that, buy try fitting two rear facing kid's seats in an A4. Try fitting one. Either it's on hump in the middle, or it's crushing the person sitting in front of it. When I was a kid, the hospital sent you home in a cardboard box and you sat in a 'recommended' car seat until you're about 4. These days, you sit in a car seat until you go to college and the newborn ones are designed to survive an airplane crash so Snake Pliskin can sneak into New York and rescue them. I'm all for safety, but the friggin seats weight 3x as much as the kid.


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## KK Moto (Jun 7, 2009)

If Audi does not bring the A6 to the US this will be a massive FAIL on their part. I love the A4 Allroad however it is simply underpowered. I am the exact target market for Audi. If only the A4 AR comes I will pass and get an Evoque or Cajun. Bring the A6 AR? Sold, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Even better if it comes with a diesel.

Best yet, put a larger engine in the A4 Allroad.

Audi, are you listening?


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

FractureCritical said:


> You know you say that, buy try fitting two rear facing kid's seats in an A4. Try fitting one. Either it's on hump in the middle, or it's crushing the person sitting in front of it. When I was a kid, the hospital sent you home in a cardboard box and you sat in a 'recommended' car seat until you're about 4. These days, you sit in a car seat until you go to college and the newborn ones are designed to survive an airplane crash so Snake Pliskin can sneak into New York and rescue them. I'm all for safety, but the friggin seats weight 3x as much as the kid.


Well, there is a third option... try a trailer. However I did note in an online article that Audi hadn't ruled out bringing the A6 Allroad to NA. But a "maybe" isn't the kind of answer that you can make purchase plans on. It's gotta be binary.


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

KK Moto said:


> If Audi does not bring the A6 to the US this will be a massive FAIL on their part. I love the A4 Allroad however it is simply underpowered. I am the exact target market for Audi. If only the A4 AR comes I will pass and get an Evoque or Cajun. Bring the A6 AR? Sold, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Even better if it comes with a diesel.
> 
> Best yet, put a larger engine in the A4 Allroad.
> 
> Audi, are you listening?


I doubt that it would be a massive fail. I suspect that Audi knows how to crunch the numbers on whether or not to introduce a specific model into NA.

As for _"...however it is simply underpowered_", I don't think that that is true for the intended market. I had an '09 Avant with the same engine and had the ECU reflashed. That little engine had great low end pull and was plenty quick. IIRC, the hp was in the mid 230's and the torque was around 330 lb/ft.

As for your last point of putting a larger engine in the Allroad, then we would be getting an Allroad S4. Now that would be fun!


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## jocamero (Apr 2, 2007)

Looks like it's coming to the US: http://models.audiusa.com/allroad


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

jocamero said:


> Looks like it's coming to the US: http://models.audiusa.com/allroad


That is the A4 AllRoad


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

SoSuMi said:


> I doubt that it would be a massive fail. I suspect that Audi knows how to crunch the numbers on whether or not to introduce a specific model into NA.
> 
> As for _"...however it is simply underpowered_", I don't think that that is true for the intended market. I had an '09 Avant with the same engine and had the ECU reflashed. That little engine had great low end pull and was plenty quick. IIRC, the hp was in the mid 230's and the torque was around 330 lb/ft.
> 
> As for your last point of putting a larger engine in the Allroad, then we would be getting an Allroad S4. Now that would be fun!


yes the car that has the identical powertrain to, and costs $2000 more than, a Q5 has plenty of power once you void its warranty. you don't see the marketing hole here?

I suspect the only number crunching that went on at Audi went something like this:

"The A4 avant doesn't sell well, what do we do?"
-"Hm, how much do we spend on marketing avants?"
"Nothing"
-"Why not?"
"Because they don't sell"
-"How can we sell any if we don't tell people about them?"
"Corporate will only allow us to budget advertizing money for hot sellers, so we have no budget"
-"that's insanely stupid. what can we do to market the car that costs nothing?"
"We can put 300 lbs of plastic on the car and market it as an "Allroad" instead of an Avant." We have no money to federalize other powertrain options, so we'll just use what we had before"
-"But what we had before didn't work"
"Oh, well. f-it. price it up another $2k and maybe they'll just take the car off the market and then we won't have to have this discussion again"
"Good Idea"


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

FractureCritical said:


> yes the car that has the identical powertrain to, and costs $2000 more than, a Q5 has plenty of power once you void its warranty. you don't see the marketing hole here?
> 
> I suspect the only number crunching that went on at Audi went something like this:
> 
> ...


I don't expect the difference to be $2000 more for the Allroad over the Q5 but that will depend on what comes standard on the NA Allroad. On the Brit site the base Allroad comes in below the base Q5 (but I'm sure that won't be the case here).

As for engines, Audi really doesn't have much choice here because, as you mention, the two liter is all ready federalized.

But yeah, slapping some bits of plastic and tin and jacking up the price is a pretty good trick, if it works.

However the A4 Allroad looks worlds better than the terminally constipated look of the Q5. And with the jacked suspension, it might actually be able to make it all the way across Cleveland in one piece.

As for the zapping one's warranty with the ECE reflash, it would only apply to failures that were attributable to the flash. It is a risk but I've done it on a bunch of Audis and am okay with rolling the dice.


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## JimInSF (Jan 18, 2010)

I'd be in for this thing with the 230kW TDI in a blink. In fact, if they told us it was coming to the U.S., a dealer would probably have my deposit already.

The A4 quote allroad unquote, not so much.


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

JimInSF said:


> I'd be in for this thing with the 230kW TDI in a blink. In fact, if they told us it was coming to the U.S., a dealer would probably have my deposit already.
> 
> The A4 quote allroad unquote, not so much.


230kw would be around 308 hp. I'm not sure that Audi offers a TDI with that? The three liter TDI puts out around 245 hp and that is offered in Europe but I'd guess pretty unlikely that the A4 allroad will ever see it here as it would kick the price way up north.


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## JimInSF (Jan 18, 2010)

SoSuMi said:


> 230kw would be around 308 hp. I'm not sure that Audi offers a TDI with that? The three liter TDI puts out around 245 hp and that is offered in Europe but I'd guess pretty unlikely that the A4 allroad will ever see it here as it would kick the price way up north.


This is for the A6 allroad, not the A4 allroad - it seems there's a lot of confusion as they announced a new A4 allroad which will be here and showed it at the show, and announced but did not show in Detroit a new A6 allroad which may or may not make it to the US at all. From the article:

The three variants of the 3.0 TDI produce 150 kW (204 hp), 180 kW (245 hp) and 230 kW (313 hp); torque values are 450, 580 and 650 Nm (331.90, 427.79 and 479.42 lb-ft).

snip

The twin-turbo 3.0 TDI developing 230 kW (313 hp) is a powerful, great sounding engine. It accelerates the A6 allroad quattro from zero to 100 km/h (62.14 mph) in 5.6 seconds; the top speed is an electronically regulated 250 km/h (155.34 mph).

snip

The most powerful TDI delivers its power to a smooth and fast-shifting eight-speed tiptronic transmission. The three other engines are paired with the seven-speed S tronic, a sporty dual-clutch transmission. ​
An allroad which is less than a second slower to 60 than my TTS, seats 4 passengers and lots of gear in relative comfort and 5 in a pinch, comes with the adaptive air suspension plus all the latest technology features (heads up display, brake assist, radar cruise, etc.), and can take my bikes on the roof? Sign me up.


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## FractureCritical (Nov 24, 2009)

Audi actually has a bit a problem with diesels and wagons.
Whether or not they like it or admit it, they've actually sold a good number of avants and A3's over the past 3 to 3 1/2 years. A good number of those A3's were diesel. And all the A3's are either stick or S-Tronic. So, when the leases run out on these cars, or when it's time to replace them, where are the owners going to go? an A4 Allroad? Not really the same thing as an Avant or an A3, no diesel is available, no stick is available, and the automatic they put in it is, well, lacking to an enthusiast. It also starts around $8k more than than an A3. With the (alleged) death of the A3 hatch in the US, Audi has taken pretty much all options away from these people and is pretty much forcing them to go elsewhere. The sad thing is, there are other places to go.

Audi says wagons don't sell?, baloney. you can still get one from Subaru, Acura, Cadillac, Mercedes, and BMW may continue the 3 series wagon in the F series.

Hatches don't sell? baloney. There's this extraordinarily lucrative brand that sells nothing but hatches, it's called Mini. VW does a fine business in them, too. Audi may end up selling more Mini Countryman's (Countrymen?) and GTI's/Golf R's due to lack of choice on this side.

Manual's don't sell? This... is probably true, sadly. But selling manuals matters. It lends sport credibility, if nothing else. If it didn't Buick, Cadillac, Acura, wouldn't make such a big stink about offering them.

Audi has been working very, very hard at offering identical cars in different sizes with no powertrain choices. The only buyer decision is picking from one of a myriad selection of colors, as long as they are all grey.


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## SoSuMi (May 14, 2004)

Thanks for the detailed explanation of all that nice stuff that we won't likely see 

For me the A4 allroad would be a nice step up from my Mazda 3 for toy transport (but the "3" is pretty nice for what it cost and the roof crossbar system seems solid).

I greatly prefer the aesthetics of the allroad styling to the bulging proportions of the Q series but that goes counter current to the NA market. I suppose if the market responds positively the the B8 based allroad, Audi might bring over the A6 as well.


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## nj_v-dub (Aug 27, 2008)

I've been hoping Audi brings back a 7-seater avant. Only other company offering such a nice feature is Benz, but not on the AMG version due to exhaust fitment. Where can I request Audi to make this option available? Not all of us want to drive "SUV's, SAV's, Suburbans, or whatever has a poor center of gravity.


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