# Picking your brain again, vortexers. 09 Rabbit P0106, P2178, P2188



## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

So if anyone remembers (which you shouldn't), I've had constant problems with my 09 Rabbit throwing a CEL for P0106 (Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Range/Performance Problem). Until recently, it's been a real non-issue. Had a shop check the signal coming from the MAP and everything appeared within range. No performance problems, and everything seemed OK, so the CEL is usually just cleared, and I can go on my way. ~100mi later, the light will come back. After a while, I started (infrequently) getting a rough idle and rich codes. Upon scanning, I saw that my fuel trim was -25% at idle, while when running normally, this value hovered around -5%. A shutoff/restart would solve the issue. Took her into the shop and decided that first course of action is to replace the MAP. Doing so now throws all of these codes, no matter the state of the car (warm, cold, drove for 1 minute or 1 hour): 

P0106: Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Range/Performance Problem 
P2178: System Too Rich Off Idle bank1 
P2188: System Too Rich at Idle bank1 
B2AAA: Unknown code 
(Sorry for no better info, this is using a generic OBDII scanner) 

So this is what we assume is good: 
MAP sensor (new, less than 100mi on it) 
Wiring ECU MAP (scan reveals results ECU reads from MAP are within range) 
All 3 O2 sensors good (California car) 
No known vacuum leaks (Smoke test revealed nothing) 
PCV diaphragm is not torn or anything 
Injectors not faulty (tested to see if they were sticking open while idle fuel trim data was so high) 

The car is stock except for a CAI, which does not seem to be the culprit since replacing the stock airbox did not solve the issue. Other stuff that may be of interest, ~65k miles, 5MT, California emmissions stuff (3 O2 sensors), no MAF (since this is 2009). 

So, anyone have any crazy theories?


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## dhenry (Feb 10, 2009)

edb4 said:


> So, anyone have any crazy theories?


 its a volkswagen, it cant be a VW unless there is a constant CEL or has weird electrical issues.


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

nickbeezy said:


> its a volkswagen, it cant be a VW unless there is a constant CEL or has weird electrical issues.


 I asked for crazy theories, please.


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Hmm UN burned fuel? Running rich? Sounds like no/barely strong enough ignition. You could try cleaning injectors seeing them spray could help. Some where along the line you're o2 sensors are tripping out. Maybe your filter is oiled up too much?


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

TylerO28 said:


> Hmm UN burned fuel? Running rich? Sounds like no/barely strong enough ignition. You could try cleaning injectors seeing them spray could help. Some where along the line you're o2 sensors are tripping out. Maybe your filter is oiled up too much?


 Definitely running rich, nice sweet smell of unburnt fuel when starting from cold. Injectors are working properly and (to my knowledge) spraying correctly. The fuel rail was removed and inspected by the shop when diagnosing the fuel trim issue, and I'm sure he would have noticed improper spray at this point, but nothing was mentioned and the injectors were OK'd. 

All three O2 sensors are all within range, per shop. 

Air filter should not be overly oiled. It was cleaned and oiled ~6k miles ago and this issue just began recently. 

As far as bad ignition, I suppose it is possible. Forgot to mention that during some pulls, at ~2500RPM in 1st and 2nd, power drops off significantly. It almost feels like the car is about to go into limp mode and cut me off at 3k, but then it powers through half a second later. My guess is because of rich conditions, things just aren't combusting properly at that range. Ignition is a definite possibility. Plugs were replaced at about 55k mi with OEM plugs, so I'm hoping that's not the issue. The coil packs are still original. I've never seen a misfire code reported, nor have I heard the car misfire except a couple times on very cold startup (~40 F). I'll check the plugs for signs of fouling, but I feel that this issue is not mature enough to manifest as visible soot on the plug(s). Any ideas on a smart way to test if this is an ignition issue? The only points of failure I can think of replacing are the plugs (I have extras, since they come in damn 4-packs) or coil packs (not looking to spend that much money if I don't have to).


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

16490/P0106/000262 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal 

Possible Symptoms 
Erratic Idle 

Possible Causes 
Wiring and/or Connections from/to Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty 
Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust 
Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty 
Engine Control Module faulty 

Possible Solutions 
Check Engine Control Module Software Version See Special Notes for Details 

Check Timing See Special Notes for Details 

Check Wiring and/or Connections from/to Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) 
Check for Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust 
Check/Replace Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) 
Check/Replace Engine Controle Module 

Special Notes 
On certain smaller Engines we've seen cases where a buggy Engine Control Unit Firmware can cause these fault codes, additionally there are known Problems with the Timing Chain Tensioners which can also result in these fault codes. Please refer to the related TPL/TSB for more instructions. 


P2178: System Too Rich Off Idle bank1 
P2188: System Too Rich at Idle bank1 
B2AAA: Unknown code 
(Sorry for no better info, this is using a generic OBDII scanner) 

Nothing shows up on ross tech after a qucik search for the last three codes. Do you know anyone with vagcom to get some better reading/codes? I think you might have unmeterd air coming in somewhere or you have a bad MAP but it should be ok since you replaced it. when you did the smoke test was the car warm or hot? Maybe the intake manifold has a crack and it may not of shown it's self. Put the stock intake back on so you can get the car back to 100% oem and that way there will be not doubt in what the issue could be and leave it on until the issue is fixed. 

When did this problem start? 
At what milage did it start? 
Did you have anywork done around that time?


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

vwluger22 said:


> 16490/P0106/000262 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96): Implausible Signal
> 
> Possible Symptoms
> Erratic Idle


 Erratic idle appeared after P0106 started becoming accompanied by other DTCs. Before then, P0106 would pop in constantly, but I never had any problems with idle. 



vwluger22 said:


> Possible Causes
> Wiring and/or Connections from/to Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty
> Leak in Air Intake and/or Exhaust
> Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71)/(F96) faulty
> Engine Control Module faulty


 ECM faulty is the last option here that wasn't checked. 



vwluger22 said:


> Possible Solutions
> Check Engine Control Module Software Version See Special Notes for Details
> 
> Check Timing See Special Notes for Details
> ...


 I can check with dealer to see if there is an ECM issue. I was reflashed a long time ago, prior to the P0106 showing up... perhaps at


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Check throttle body gasket, check intake manifold.you'll probably have fouled plugs, evap system ok? I'm thinking for sure there is some sort of leak somewhere. Wish I could help more. I'd say coils and plugs should be done just in case


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

edb4 said:


> This is not 2.5-specific, is it?


 Nope that is what I got for info from ross tech site. 

Few weeks ago from messing around with my maf and making it sit further into the cai I got the code P0106 that was also with a tune so it didnt like that. Put the maf back to where it was before and it went away. Knowing you dont have a maf and only a map makes me think there is unmetered air. I asked about the car being warm or not during the smoke test because typicaly cracks/holes or anything in general will expand when hot. Could be a software issue doesnt hurt to take it to the dealer and see what they have to say and there might be an update. 

Have you tried adapting the throttle body or checked to make sure that was in working order?


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

TylerO28 said:


> Check throttle body gasket, check intake manifold.you'll probably have fouled plugs, evap system ok? I'm thinking for sure there is some sort of leak somewhere. Wish I could help more. I'd say coils and plugs should be done just in case


 I'll do all of these, thanks for the ideas. As far as evap goes, my knowledge for diagnosing issues here is just checking that the gas cap is on tight. Any pointers? Never had a car with real emission controls on it before.


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

vwluger22 said:


> Nope that is what I got for info from ross tech site.
> 
> Few weeks ago from messing around with my maf and making it sit further into the cai I got the code P0106 that was also with a tune so it didnt like that. Put the maf back to where it was before and it went away. Knowing you dont have a maf and only a map makes me think there is unmetered air. I asked about the car being warm or not during the smoke test because typicaly cracks/holes or anything in general will expand when hot. Could be a software issue doesnt hurt to take it to the dealer and see what they have to say and there might be an update.
> 
> Have you tried adapting the throttle body or checked to make sure that was in working order?


 Most local dealer wants $100 to even look at the car for an ECU update, then 1hr labor to do the update, since it is "diagnostics" and they bill a minimum of 1hr. Trying to avoid paying as much as possible at this point, it's $200 I don't have right now. And diag + 1hr is shady enough as it is. Will check with other dealers to see what they have to say. 

As far as the smoke test is concerned, I will ask the shop about it, to see if they remember. 

For throttle body performance, I wouldn't know what to look for. It seems to be working properly, as the values it shows for percent open seem normal. I would assume that upon replacing the MAP the TB will need to recalibrate. I was under the assumption that this was an automatic process that happens over time as the ECU learns to adapt. Is there a manual method for resetting this that I do not need Vagcom to accomplish? Pull battery?


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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

Vag-com will do it under basic settings. Buy the car essentially does it every time you turn the car off. Pull the battery, it'll re adapt. Evap check this part







it's the n75 valve or n80. It'll be right on top if the intake manifold. Mine is tucked away. It's just left of the left side injector. If that is messed up I think it should be able to blow air through it.when off


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

Nice pic, thanks! I'll give this a shot tonight after work. I had minimal time to play with the car yesterday, so I just checked the plugs and did a battery pull. All plugs looked fine, and after pulling the battery the TB seemed to re-adapt completely, as the first startup needed some time to stabilize the idle, but after that, all was fine with no pending faults until this morning. Then of course, P0106 showed up, followed by the rich condition codes. 

What seems unusual is that when the P0106 triggers (not pending, but actually throws a CEL), the car starts acting up. It almost appears that while the DTC is a pending fault, the car has no performance issues. Then once the pending fault gets upgraded to an actual CEL, the car starts to misbehave. Is this a reaction by the ECU to start operating under "fail-safe mode" or some equivalent? My thoughts are that once the actual CEL is triggered for P0106, the ECU switches to a condition where values from the MAP are not to be trusted, and to instead infer what MAP values _should_ be as a result of readings from other sensors? I may be way off base here, but I am just trying to learn what is going on inside of this piece of equipment. I consider myself somewhat good at working with cars, and I work with computers and electronics as a profession. However, when the two are combined, it's all Greek to me!


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## nightshift1963 (Jun 20, 2011)




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## TylerO28 (Jul 7, 2008)

nightshift1963 said:


>


 Lol seriously


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

I suppose I'll update with what I have done and now observe, in case anyone in the future stumbles upon this thread. I ended up dropping the car off at a dealership today for work, as the car was starting to become difficult to drive. From a stop, engaging 1st gear at the usual ~1000rpm was near-impossible as substantial torque has been lost everywhere below ~1500rpm, and the car would want to stall out. At stop lights, idle would drop low enough that the engine will want to cut out, then slowly find its way back to anywhere between 650 and 900rpm. The throttle felt like it was fluctuating, and attempting to keep the engine RPM stable while cruising felt "off". I can feel the car gently accelerating/decelerating characterized by subtle shuddering while trying to maintain a constant speed. 

Now I'm just waiting for a call back from the dealership to see what they think. opcorn:


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

To those who are sitting on the edges of their seats in anticipation , here's the update: 

VW Dealership says that the MAP sensor is the incorrect part number for my car, and the valve cover needs to be replaced due to a damaged PCV valve. 

:what: 

The incorrect MAP sensor makes no sense, since this exact dealership is the one who sold me this part a week ago. Of course, the one I have was only $77, and the "correct" one is in the neighborhood of $120. Part numbers match except for the last digit (G instead of F), and the supposed "correct" one has superseded the one in my car. When asked if this revision was released within the last week, I was told that they are "going to look into it." It does not sound like they have any intentions on crediting me for the initial part. 

Secondly, they claim that the MAP sensor has failed due to being "soaked" in oil that was sucked up by the damaged PCV valve. This MAP sensor has very few miles on it, and I find it hard to believe that this sensor with such little service life has more oil condensed onto it than the previous MAP sensor (which I still have) with tens of thousands of miles. 

Finally, the damage to the PCV valve is unknown to apparently everyone who looked at my car at the dealership thus far. The conclusion at this point is that it is broken, but nobody can tell me why it is broken. Oddly enough, the last time that my car was serviced (same day as that smoke test), my PCV valve body was inspected for damage, and nothing was found. Diaphragm was intact, no tears, no sign of excessive oil. It was cleaned of excess matter at this point, since it was already opened up. Apparently we went from squeaky-clean to damaged and oiled out in a matter of days. 

Sure, this all sounds plausible (final catastrophic failure to the PCV that happened to occur just days after it was cleaned out), but none of it feels right. 

Estimated repair cost: $750 
Initial Diag: $100 
Total quoted: $850 

After requesting a breakdown of part costs: 
New valve cover and gasket (since PCV is attached): $188 
New MAP sensor: $120 
Parts total: $308 

So this leaves labor at about $450, which seems a bit high. Replacing the MAP sensor on the first go-around was a 30-minute job. It sounds like they are quoting me for 4 hours of work, which I think is about 1 hour too much. 

So I've let them know not to put another finger on my car until I visit them tomorrow and have a technician show me everything that they've found. :thumbdown:


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

This thread has now become a journal of everything I've dealt with so far. Hopefully it comes in handy someday for someone, but for now, it's just so I can keep track of all of the things I am being told. Also, if you want to :facepalm: along with me, buckle up. It's gonna be a bumpy ride. 

Went to the dealership today to speak with the shop foreman and the tech who inspected my car. The part-by-part breakdown was furthered. 

MAP Sensor: 
The tech explains that the sensor was "soaked" in oil. When I asked to see the sensor, he explained that he had already cleaned it and installed it back on the car. When I asked why he did that, if he knew I had the "wrong" MAP and would need replacing, he shrugged it off and said "I couldn't just leave it out. How else can I work on your car if not all of the parts are intact?" When I asked exactly what he meant by "soaked," he just replied with "Soaked. With oil." After explaining that the last sensor was not "soaked" when it was replaced, I asked for what explanation he had for the issue. He claims the faulty PCV. This makes sense, except for the fact that the PCV was fully functional just days ago. Also, he continues to explain that if my old MAP had even the slightest film or condensation of oil, that it is proof that there is a leak somewhere. Can't say that I agree here, I believe that it's normal for a little bit of crap to find its way to lightly gunk up the MAP sensor after 65k miles. Tech disagrees. 

PCV and Valve Cover: 
So, VW does not offer parts to repair the PCV valve. If you tear a diaphragm, too bad. You need a whole new valve cover, as it is "one part." Whether or not this is completely true, it is what I am told. Anyways, after inquiring as to what was wrong with the PCV system, the tech and foreman had no explanation. They just explain that they detected that it is broken, and it needs to be replaced. After asking just HOW they know it's broken, they explain that if they replace it and the car works, then clearly it was broken. I don't know where there could be any confusion, you have a case, a diaphragm, a spring, and a cover. For the PCV system to be broken, one or more of these parts must be broken, right? :facepalm: So we're taking the "let's throw parts at it and see if it fixes itself" approach. I asked twice more during the entire conversation about what EXACTLY is wrong with the PCV besides "it's broken." They say they'll charge me labor to have them inspect it, as it would require complete removal of the valve cover. I confirm with the tech that he just explained to me that he knows it is broken without inspecting the part. He says he doesn't need to inspect it to know when it's broken, and at that point, I might as well just replace it if I'm going to make him inspect it (labor to remove, inspect, and replace old one is same as just installing a new one). Also during this exchange, he explains that the previous shop could not have known that the PCV was not faulty, nor could the diaphragm and internal casing be cleaned, as they are not serviceable parts. :what: 

What could happen next: ECU 
After asking "What happens if we do all of this work, and it doesn't fix the problem?" The next step is to look into replacing the ECU completely. Their reasoning is that the wrong MAP sensor being installed could have been reporting values so unexpected by the ECU, that it BROKE ITSELF PERMANENTLY ATTEMPTING TO ADJUST AND COMPENSATE.  Of course, there is no way to reset or reflash the ECU if this WAS the case. Apparently, the voltages returned to the ECU from the MAP could have been so far out of range that it caused permanent electrical damage. Sorry, but :bs:. As I understand it, ECU supplies voltage to the MAP, and the MAP returns voltage, reduced by the resistance by the barometric sensor. I can't think of a way that this stable 5v (or whatever voltage is used here) will be ramped up to a dangerous voltage that will fry the ECU upon return. 

At this point, VW will just be ordering the parts to their shop in case I wish to continue forward. In the mean time, they will be discussing amongst themselves my proposal that if this does not fix the issue (new MAP and valve cover), that subsequent repairs to fix it will be on their dime. They're going to "check the car again and get back to me."  

I don't know a ton about cars, I'll admit this. I can do my own basic maintenance, and I understand a lot of the technical aspects of older vehicles. I'll also admit that I have never owned a car before this one that had a computer or emissions stuff. But all of these dealership explanations just seem like they may not actually know what is wrong with the car. 

Also, if you made it this far into the thread, congratulations! You've got quite the attention span!


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

hmmm well keep us updated.


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

Dealership called to let me know parts were in. Also, the service rep says that regarding the MAP sensor, the one I had received days ago was recommended by a VWoA tech over the phone instead of the one in the dealer's catalogue. Asked a few more questions about the MAP mix-up, basically "Should I believe a VWoA rep that explained this over the phone, or a book that may be outdated?" and the service advisor advised me that if I have so many questions, that I should just take the car somewhere else. So I will. :thumbup: 

Also found out that between my circle of friends and coworkers, I'm definitely not the first to have problems with this dealership. Too bad I didn't know this days ago


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## vwluger22 (Jan 25, 2005)

:laugh: When you bring your car to a VW dealer they should be the ones that know the in's and out's of the car and how it all works and explain it to the customer. Sucks that you got to pay another diag fee to get your car looked at but maybe they can give you thier opinion on the matter hopefully its not as complicated as the fist one..


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## wushugs (Oct 1, 2008)

bump,

what ever came of this? im having the same problem on my 2.5. everything cept the performance/idle/inconsistant rpm


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5905473-More-fault-codes-after-MAP-sensor-replaced


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

if you have those faults all three and your car runs like crap, you have bad gas in your car, the fuel filter is clogged, change your fuel filter and run your car intill its close to empty, and fill it up and it will be like new


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

vrsick147 said:


> if you have those faults all three and your car runs like crap, you have bad gas in your car, the fuel filter is clogged, change your fuel filter and run your car intill its close to empty, and fill it up and it will be like new


This is definitely not going to fix the issue.


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## ScienceJesus (Jun 6, 2013)

I've been having this similar problem for about a year and change now. Sadly, I actually have a clock on getting it fixed because PA has an emissions test that apparently won't allow the tech to proceed while the fault code is active. 

In May of 2012, the CEL came on and popped the P0106 code. All I had was the basic AutoZone code pull so I couldn't get details. It was a week before I was making a trip to Chicago from Pittsburgh. I made the trip anyway because it wasn't affecting mileage significantly and the car was running fine. 

Long story short, I replaced the the MAP sensor after I got back in order to pass emissions. The dealership wanted me to replace the entire intake manifold section but I wasn't about to throw $500 at it (they refused to cover my 2009 Rabbit with 55k on it under powertrain) and opted for the $50 fix of a new MAP sensor only. It worked temporarily. The CEL came back on a few weeks later but then went out again a day or so later. It stayed off this time. 

Fast forward to March of this year and the CEL came on again (oddly enough, right before I was about to drive from Pittsburgh to Chicago again). The dealership cleared the code and ran a leak test and tested the vaccuum. They came up with nothing. I still said screw it and made the drive agian. I made it about 1000 miles before the code came on again. It turned off again after a few miles and was intermitent for a few weeks until it's been on steady for the past few weeks. 

I never got any of the other codes though. It's been steady with P0106 only since the beginning of this issue. I'm thinking about just throwing another new MAP sensor on it (I've only put on about 7k miles since the last one) rather than dealing with the whole manifold assembly for almost 10x as much. 

But if anyone else has had any luck with figuring out why these cars start eating MAP sensors after only 50-someK miles, that would be awesome. How widespread is this problem? Why hasn't there been a recall on this if it's as widespread as it appears to be? Because it seems to be happening to everyone around the same mileage.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

ok, i signed up just to post a possible solution to this P0106 problem with the 2.5L. i ran across this thread when i was having issues and saw there was no apparent solution. 

In theory, you can throw as many MAP sensors as you want at the problem, but it won't fix it, nor will it 'eat up' the MAP sensor. It's probably just getting them dirty. throwing a clean sensor on there will work until it succumbs to the oil residue. 

bottom line, i cleaned my intake manifold and it fixed the problem. 

here's a link to the DIY i wrote-up and you can see what provoked me into taking this route: http://volkswagenownersclub.com/vw/...DIY-2.5L-MKV-Intake-Manifold-Removal-Cleaning 

no parts were changed, except for the intake manifold gaskets. 

knowing what i know now about the intake manifold design, this cleaning can most likely be done without taking the intake manifold off. which would save loads of time. you'd just have to remove the map sensor, throttle body and surrounding connections. and with some very clean lint-free rags, spray them with throttle body cleaner and wipe the inside of the plenum to clean up all the oil residue. my hand doesn't fit inside the plenum, so i used a bamboo garden stake to push the rags around to get into the corners and such. 

if you are currently getting the P0106 code, go ahead and remove the MAP sensor to inspect for oil residue. if there is absolutely no residue on your sensor, i'd inspect for a vacuum leak on the manifold or suspect a faulty N80 valve. but base on your descriptions, i'd say the MAP sensor is getting oiled up. 

good luck...


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## ScienceJesus (Jun 6, 2013)

le0n said:


> ok, i signed up just to post a possible solution to this P0106 problem with the 2.5L. i ran across this thread when i was having issues and saw there was no apparent solution.
> 
> In theory, you can throw as many MAP sensors as you want at the problem, but it won't fix it, nor will it 'eat up' the MAP sensor. It's probably just getting them dirty. throwing a clean sensor on there will work until it succumbs to the oil residue.
> 
> ...


 Dude, you're a life saver! I had a feeling that that was the issue. I posted on one of the other forums that I was going to check the throttle body since I already had to take it off to get to the MAP sensor anyway but this was exactly what I needed. 

Thank you!


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

ScienceJesus said:


> Dude, you're a life saver! I had a feeling that that was the issue. I posted on one of the other forums that I was going to check the throttle body since I already had to take it off to get to the MAP sensor anyway but this was exactly what I needed.
> 
> Thank you!


 if you don't mind, take photographs of your MAP sensor (before cleaning), and whatever gunk you find in your intake manifold and post them back. 

also, you shouldn't have to remove your throttle body to remove the sensor for inspection. 

one torx screw holds it in place; the other side is just a plastic post for aligning. i just walked to my car and took this photo: 

you just have to move that fat harness out of the way to see it. 









good luck...


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

wow so sad you have to remember a map sensor is not like a maf sensor, so basically a map sensor is reading air/fuel mixture, so if you get any codes for a map sensor you need to checked your fuel in the tank, and you have to removed the fuel filter shake it and if it comes out black change you fuel filter and you will solve your problem


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

vrsick147 said:


> wow so sad you have to remember a map sensor is not like a maf sensor, so basically a map sensor is reading air/fuel mixture, so if you get any codes for a map sensor you need to checked your fuel in the tank, and you have to removed the fuel filter shake it and if it comes out black change you fuel filter and you will solve your problem


 That's not correct. 

Please refrain from commenting on something you obviously have no knowledge of. 

It only causes confusion.


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## ScienceJesus (Jun 6, 2013)

I totally forgot to take pictures of it before and after. But there was gunk on it. Not a LOT, but enough. The whole senor portion of it has a layer of oil. And between the plastic "bars" that protect the sensor portion from stuff hitting it had a good bit of oil. Not dripping, but definitely enough. I cleaned the crap out of it with a lint-free rag and tried to poke inside of it to clear anything inside with a toothpick thru the rag and that seemed to help. 

Also, I cleaned out the throttle body while it was out anyway, cleaned inside the manifold (I didn't bother to take the whole thing off. A rag zip-tied onto a stick worked just fine for the most part even if I didn't get every speck of oil out of the manifold) and then cleaned everything that I could reach above and below the throttle body & MAP sensor port with another clean rag. I got a good deal of oil out of it. 

And I just used a lint-free rag and some aerosol throttle body/carb cleaner from Advanced Auto Parts to clean the throttle body. I was able to get about 99% of the carbon buildup off with just a rag and some cleaner. I didn't even need to use a toothbrush, then again, I'm only at 67,000ish instead of over 100,000 like you were. So there should be less caked-on carbon buildup on there. 

After I cleaned everything, I checked and the CEL was still on, but I hadn't let it reset itself yet. I cleared the code with a handheld and drove it around a little. There was a noticable difference in power and smoothness, even though I wasn't having idle issues before. After I did the cleaning, I realized that it almost felt as though my car had been partially drowning before and now it's breathing fine. Like an asthmatic before and after a breathing treatment. It just FELT better and I felt like I had a lot more low-end power than I has previously. 

I've only put about 50 miles on it since the cleaning on sunday because I screwed up my back over the weekend and have been just keeping off my feet, so I'll have to let you all know how it's running in a few days after I put another 100 or so miles on it. 

And I realized after I pulled the throttle body off that it's only 1 torx head. The other is side is just a post that goes thru the screw hole to hold up the other side.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

ScienceJesus said:


> I totally forgot to take pictures of it before and after. But there was gunk on it. Not a LOT, but enough. The whole senor portion of it has a layer of oil. And between the plastic "bars" that protect the sensor portion from stuff hitting it had a good bit of oil. Not dripping, but definitely enough.


 i believe the cel occurs when the oil 'connects' the plastic bars to the probe. it creates an actual fluid column/contact and changes the air pressure reading. 

probably wouldn't happen without those plastic protection bars because the oil would not have enough surface area to adhere to. 



ScienceJesus said:


> There was a noticable difference in power and smoothness, even though I wasn't having idle issues before. After I did the cleaning, I realized that it almost felt as though my car had been partially drowning before and now it's breathing fine. Like an asthmatic before and after a breathing treatment. It just FELT better and I felt like I had a lot more low-end power than I has previously.


 i know exactly what you mean. at first i was just trying to correct the "cel issue" because i did not have any idle/power/mpg problems. 

all i know is that runs like new again. 

i have a feeling that there will be more and more occurrences of this issue as the rest of the 2.5s get up there in mileage. hopefully a few people can see this possible fix before dropping cash on map sensors or an intake manifold replacement. a new intake manifold would effectively solve the issue because it would be clean, but it would be an expensive approach to get the same result. 

glad you got a chance to get in there and clean it. keep us posted.


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

le0n said:


> That's not correct.
> 
> Please refrain from commenting on something you obviously have no knowledge of.
> 
> It only causes confusion.


 

wow ok that is correct are you a vw tech mm no so how can you say its not correct i deal with this problem all the time, so if you want to believe this person then you will never get you car fixed AND NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING I SAY IM A VW MASTER TECH BY THE WAY


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

vrsick147 said:


> wow ok that is correct are you a vw tech mm no so how can you say its not correct i deal with this problem all the time, so if you want to believe this person then you will never get you car fixed AND NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING I SAY IM A VW MASTER TECH BY THE WAY


 i'm sorry, but if a VW MASTER TECH stated what you stated in bold below, i'd be afraid to let him/her anywhere near my vehicle. 



vrsick147 said:


> wow so sad you have to remember a map sensor is not like a maf sensor, *so basically a map sensor is reading air/fuel mixture*, so if you get any codes for a map sensor you need to checked your fuel in the tank, and you have to removed the fuel filter shake it and if it comes out black change you fuel filter and you will solve your problem


 MAP sensors measure absolute pressure in the intake manifold; not air/fuel mixture. 

edit: wait a minute, is this a joke? who is this? someone from vwoc?


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## ScienceJesus (Jun 6, 2013)

le0n said:


> i'm sorry, but if a VW MASTER TECH stated what you stated in bold below, i'd be afraid to let him/her anywhere near my vehicle.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm inclined to believe the guy whose suggestion just fixed my car for the last 100+ miles with a simple throttle body cleaning, wiping off my MAP sensor, and toweling the excess oil out of my manifold instead of the guy that suggests the problem with the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor has to do with the FUEL FILTER on the other half of the air/fuel mixture that's determined by an ECU that just makes calculations based on the signals it gets from my MAP sensor. 

They're on entirely different sides of the air/fuel mixture equation.


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## kiserhd (Feb 2, 2008)

vrsick147 said:


> wow ok that is correct are you a vw tech mm no so how can you say its not correct i deal with this problem all the time, so if you want to believe this person then you will never get you car fixed AND NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING I SAY IM A VW MASTER TECH BY THE WAY


You need a bag to go with that douche?


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## ScienceJesus (Jun 6, 2013)

For the record, this fix got me through the last 150 miles and my emissions testing in PA with flying colors. So I highly suggest it for anyone else dealing with this. As long as your PCV valve isn't the problem.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ congratulations on your car passing the test.

my system reads ~4300 miles since the DTC was cleared.


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

Ok sure see the problem with people on here is that they think they know everything like you , you do this for fun, this I'd my career for the past ten years so this is was waste of time do as you please


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

kiserhd said:


> You need a bag to go with that douche?


Ok lame no body asked you , and there's enough douches, but I guess they forgot to put you in the
Bag


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

vrsick147 said:


> Ok sure see the problem with people on here is that they think they know everything like you , you do this for fun, this I'd my career for the past ten years so this is was waste of time do as you please


so you do it for money. congratulations on choosing a career you can make a living on.

i help out when i can (for free).

sometimes it helps people save time, money and frustration; sometimes it doesn't. no one is perfect.

besides, he already said his car is running properly from the simple cleaning procedure. and from what i can tell is that he quite possibly saved himself a few dollars doing so.

i see no wrong-doing here.

it's going to be ok, man.

may peace be with you, my friend.


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## ScienceJesus (Jun 6, 2013)

I'm about 3,000 miles since this problem with absolutely zero recurrance of the CEL or this code. And it cost all of about $7 for carb cleaner. It's a virtually idiot-proof repair and can save you a couple hundred bucks for only about 30 minutes of work.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ thanks for the update.


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

le0n said:


> so you do it for money. congratulations on choosing a career you can make a living on.
> 
> i help out when i can (for free).
> 
> ...


 
i didnt say go to a dealership people here attacked me for no reason , I was just telling the guy from what ive seen and give him my input whether you take your car to the dealership or not is all up to him, but dont bash dealerships everyone is different. I help many people on here and with radio code never charged anybody for help, so if someone knows information inside and outside of a dealerships its food for thought. Plus you know there's tons of info on here that are totally wrong and there's things that are right, its an opinion and the input for everyone to make problem solving easier


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

le0n said:


> That's not correct.
> 
> Please refrain from commenting on something you obviously have no knowledge of.
> 
> It only causes confusion.


 
Engines that use a MAP sensor are typically fuel injected. The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). The data is used to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn determines the required fuel metering for optimum combustion (see stoichiometry) and influence the advance or retard of ignition timing


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## vrsick147 (Jun 18, 2007)

ScienceJesus said:


> I'm inclined to believe the guy whose suggestion just fixed my car for the last 100+ miles with a simple throttle body cleaning, wiping off my MAP sensor, and toweling the excess oil out of my manifold instead of the guy that suggests the problem with the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor has to do with the FUEL FILTER on the other half of the air/fuel mixture that's determined by an ECU that just makes calculations based on the signals it gets from my MAP sensor.
> 
> They're on entirely different sides of the air/fuel mixture equation.


 Manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensors are a common counterpart to fuel injection engines. Fuel injection engines vaporize fuel by pumping fuel into the engine under high pressure. The MAP sensor is connected to the intake manifold, which supplies a fuel and air blend to engine cylinders, and sends information on air pressure to the engine’s electronic control unit (ECU). It is integral to the function of the car because it senses engine load 

Read more: http://www.ehow.com/list_6825759_functions-map-sensor_.html#ixzz2btM1GUrm


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

vrsick147 said:


> wow so sad you have to remember a map sensor is not like a maf sensor, so basically a map sensor is reading air/fuel mixture, so if you get any codes for a map sensor you need to checked your fuel in the tank, and you have to removed the fuel filter shake it and if it comes out black change you fuel filter and you will solve your problem


 ^^ no. aside from the MAF sensor being different from MAP sensor statement, the rest of what was stated here is incorrect. 



vrsick147 said:


> Engines that use a MAP sensor are typically fuel injected. *The manifold absolute pressure sensor provides instantaneous manifold pressure information to the engine's electronic control unit (ECU). *The data is used to calculate air density and determine the engine's air mass flow rate, which in turn determines the required fuel metering for optimum combustion (see stoichiometry) and influence the advance or retard of ignition timing


 ^^ yes. 



vrsick147 said:


> Manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensors are a common counterpart to fuel injection engines. Fuel injection engines vaporize fuel by pumping fuel into the engine under high pressure. The MAP sensor is connected to the intake manifold, which supplies a fuel and air blend to engine cylinders, and sends information on air pressure to the engine’s electronic control unit (ECU). It is integral to the function of the car because it senses engine load
> 
> Read more: http://www.ehow.com/list_6825759_functions-map-sensor_.html#ixzz2btM1GUrm


 ^^ Almost. 

I bet that guy's past grammar teachers are turning in their graves. 

Mr. Chris Hamilton needs to rewrite that paragraph to read something similar to this: 

Manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensors are *connected to the Intake Manifold* and are a common counterpart to fuel injection engines. The MAP sensor sends instantaneous absolute intake pressure measurements to the engine’s electronic control unit (ECU). These measurements, and other real-time measurements are dynamically used as variables in the air/fuel ratio calculations. 



vrsick147 said:


> i didnt say go to a dealership people here attacked me for no reason , I was just telling the guy from what ive seen and give him my input whether you take your car to the dealership or not is all up to him, but dont bash dealerships everyone is different. I help many people on here and with radio code never charged anybody for help, so if someone knows information inside and outside of a dealerships its food for thought. Plus you know there's tons of info on here that are totally wrong and there's things that are right, its an opinion and the input for everyone to make problem solving easier


 i wasn't bashing the dealerships. 

also, thanks for your continual help on the forums. 

but please understand, if i'm trying to explain something to someone, and then another person interjects with incorrect information (see above), i'm going to do my best to make sure that the person i'm trying to help is not confused.


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

le0n said:


> ^^ no. aside from the MAF sensor being different from MAP sensor statement, the rest of what was stated here is incorrect.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bringing this topic back, I have the same exact codes as the OP along with my usual P2420...

For those who have cleaned the manifold and sensor, how long did the fix last? I should have a carbonio to put on soon and would like to clean up what I can, while I can when i'm under the hood. Also would like to some feedback on how the MAP might have been getting out on it? Only way i'm thinking it could have happened would have been from when I cleaned and re-oiled my K&N drop in....


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

WhatNoGarnish said:


> Bringing this topic back, I have the same exact codes as the OP along with my usual P2420...
> 
> For those who have cleaned the manifold and sensor, how long did the fix last? I should have a carbonio to put on soon and would like to clean up what I can, while I can when i'm under the hood. Also would like to some feedback on how the MAP might have been getting out on it? Only way i'm thinking it could have happened would have been from when I cleaned and re-oiled my K&N drop in....


i believe i've put close to 40k miles since i cleaned my intake plenum.

oil from your k&n could have been the cause in your specific situation, if you used more than the specified amount for the re-oil. regardless, oil will drop out of the crank case vapor with or without an oiled filter. it's just part of the engine design.

for emissions reasons, we cycle this contaminated vapor back into our engines to be burned to keep it from raw-venting into the atmosphere and on the ground.


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

I am OP. I cleaned plenum, throttle body, and MAP about 15k miles ago. No CEL came back. But for what it's worth, I also have UM tune with a specific P0106 fix. The issue came back after the tune, but went away after I did cleaning much later. So, it is unknown whether or not my cleaning would have the same "fixed" effect on a stock ECU. But it's worth doing anyways, since it's simple work.


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

le0n said:


> i believe i've put close to 40k miles since i cleaned my intake plenum.
> 
> oil from your k&n could have been the cause in your specific situation, if you used more than the specified amount for the re-oil. regardless, oil will drop out of the crank case vapor with or without an oiled filter. it's just part of the engine design.
> 
> for emissions reasons, we cycle this contaminated vapor back into our engines to be burned to keep it from raw-venting into the atmosphere and on the ground.


Good to know, thanks :thumbup:

I'll get back with what I find on my MAP and plenum, for future searches


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

Just to add:

I should be taking my MAP out today to see if this is the issue, but i'm curious how bad it is to drive around lean like this. Some research is leading me to believe I could cause serious problems to my valves and pistons since it is running hot. Anyone have any input on this? I have to drive about 550 miles round trip this weekend 

I also cleared the code yesterday, and for a good 2-3 hours, the car was performing great. Later in the evening the CEL came back and started to bog again... i'm wondering if there really is anything wrong with my car... if it was running lean after the code was cleared wouldn't It have still been bogging like when the CEL is on? Leads me to believe this is a sensor issue and shouldn't be mechanical.

Edit: How hard is it to take the Throttle body off to clean the intake manifold with the manifold still on?


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## edb4 (Mar 4, 2009)

When you clear the CEL without "fixing" anything, it will run fine for a while, sure. But after a while the ECU decides that the MAP is giving too much bad data, and eventually it stops trusting it (P0106). So until that threshold, everything is fine. If there's oil on your MAP, the sensor still works, but it will start to throw bad information more and more frequently.

It is easy to take off the throttle body. Remove the intake piping and there should just be 4 torx holding it on. Disconnect the MAP sensor connector and remove the torx screws. TB comes right off and you have access to the intake manifold as well. I just sprayed a little carb cleaner on a rag, shoved it into the manifold, attached the end to a drill, and spun it around for a minute. Clean enough.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

edb4 said:


> It is easy to take off the throttle body...


yeah. if you take your time, you'd be done cleaning the tb and plenum within an hour.


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

Thanks guys, took out the MAP and TB as soon as I could after work today. Never had to take a TB off any of my cars before which is why I asked :beer:

The MAP had oil on it, not as much the picture in LeOn's thread but it was there (and maybe some debri?). I took a pic but Flicker is being a **** right now on my iphone. My phone later died, of course, so no more pictures... The TB has some deposits on the bottom half of the cylinder. The inside of the first 3-4 inches of the Plenum weren't that bad, so I didn't go any further. 

After starting the car, it idled better but still bogged a bit blipping the throttle between gears. Got the codes cleared again to see if any of the codes stay away. Did any of you see immediate results after the cleaning?

Forgot to mention I replaced the intake filter so I can clean my K&N.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

performance results were almost immediate when i performed my cleaning.



WhatNoGarnish said:


> along with my usual P2420...


this is where you need to focus. actually, if this was usual, you needed to focus here before you got the P0106.

also, that code doesn't come up on ross-tech. what code scanner were you using?


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

le0n said:


> performance results were almost immediate when i performed my cleaning.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



P2420 was from a loaner scanner at Autozone. Its for the catalyst deficiency cause by my high-flow cat. Ive had that code for almost 7 months and never had any throttle or idle issues im having now. I know I need software to help erase it, but every time i'm a bout to pull the trigger on it, I cant give up my car for the couple days needed 

This morning once the ecu started to adapt again after clearing the code, It started to bog again with initial throttle. Turned the car off waited a minute and when I started it again, the idle was below 600.

Is there a way to check the PCV diaphragm in the valve cover? My car is 2011 with 65K.... I can imagine its that, but it is a VW


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ get that code read with a different scanner.



WhatNoGarnish said:


> Is there a way to check the PCV diaphragm in the valve cover? My car is 2011 with 65K.... I can imagine its that, but it is a VW


while the engine is idling, try to remove the oil fill cap. if it is difficult to remove (hard vacuum), then the pcv (breather valve) is not working properly.


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## vr6-kamil (Sep 14, 2008)

Are there any '09+ 2.5Ls out there with 100k miles or more that have never had that CEL problem?


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

Update from what happened today with the same codes as the OP posted:

P0106: Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Range/Performance Problem
P2178: System Too Rich Off Idle bank1
P2188: System Too Rich at Idle bank1

I went to the dealership today because a great friend of mine who is a mechanic at a VW dealership in Chicago was finally able to diagnose those codes and told me about a software update available that started THIS year in March. Its technical bulletin: 2034012/4. 

Apparently when the tech looks up the codes I was throwing, VW recommends this fix. So it seems you most likely need have these codes to get the update. The update BTW was free. They waived the fee to look at my car as well because this is under the 80K power-train warranty. :what:

The update worked like a champ, the throttle response is great and my car pulls so much better. Didn't really notice this since it might have gradually happened, but my engine sounded quieter before as well, almost muted. Only thing I'm missing is my MFD not having Oil temp that I liked to keep on. My CEL is back for the P2420 again (I know I need to get this fixed) so this means it doesn't help with a HFC.

From what the OP discovered, he too suggested a software change would fix the problem. So if this happens to all you MAFless guys, and i'm assuming now (you know when you assume), a software upgrade, from UM/not sure about C2, or OEM should fix the problem.


Some other notes with my situation and discussions:

- Although there was a chance the PCV valve could have caused the issue, it was unlikely because 09+ have the newer version of the valve cover... not sure if this is true, maybe someone can confirm.

- My Golf is a PZEV. I believe this means is a California emissions car? - I have two hoses that run into the intake pipe, Block Breather & SAI.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ give us an update in about a week if you don't mind. i'm really curious as to what this software update really does.

in the mean time, enjoy your throttle response.

edit: if it is a new software update that came out this march, it would be subsequent to the one that came out last summer. perhaps this one covers the later model 2.5 engines?

edit2: do you still have your k&n filter in there?


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

le0n said:


> ^^ give us an update in about a week if you don't mind. i'm really curious as to what this software update really does.
> 
> in the mean time, enjoy your throttle response.
> 
> ...


I'll drop a note in a week, for sure. Like I mentioned before I'm driving to tampa tomorrow form Ft Lauderdale. I'll put an update in as well Monday night. 

The update could very well by for the newer model 2.5l. Might just be a fix instead of replacing the engine cover/PCV?

The [email protected] is off
, I still had the bad throttle response and codes with the new OE filter. I need to clean the K&N and I'll put it back on. But I might get a carbonio before that.


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## WhatNoGarnish (Jul 6, 2007)

Drove 10 hours round trip without any problems :thumbup:


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## ScienceJesus (Jun 6, 2013)

WhatNoGarnish said:


> Bringing this topic back, I have the same exact codes as the OP along with my usual P2420...
> 
> For those who have cleaned the manifold and sensor, how long did the fix last? I should have a carbonio to put on soon and would like to clean up what I can, while I can when i'm under the hood. Also would like to some feedback on how the MAP might have been getting out on it? Only way i'm thinking it could have happened would have been from when I cleaned and re-oiled my K&N drop in....


About 20K miles since I cleaned mine and no codes have come back for it. I haven't checked it recently (meant to do that when I put my CAI on again 2 months ago, but forgot) but everything is running just fine.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ thanks for the updates guys.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

I made a diy today to show any newcomers how simple this can be: http://www.europeanag.com/forum/index.php/topic,37339.0.html


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Thank's for keeping us in mind le0n both of your DIY's are fantastic. The last one definitely helps simplify things :thumbup:. Will be doing this soon as I've had this problem since 50,000 miles now I'm at 78,000 with it . Dealer has put new sensor in before only to last 2 ****ing hours and the engine light came back on. Thanks again. Somebody has to help the little guys haha :wave:


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ no problem.

i've been meaning to do this diy for a while, however, i really didn't have the need to until the error came back.

i want it to be a meaningful test too; this is why i left the throttle body alone.

hopefully more people will catch on to this 'cleaning' when they get this error so that we can gather some more 'data/proof'.

it would be nice for at least the vw dealer technicians to update their notes.


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## bartolm (Aug 13, 2009)

*More P0106 questions + an added wrinkle*

Thanks for all the good information. I'm hoping some of you can help me with my version of this problem. I have a 2009 MK V Rabbit with the 2.5L 5Cyl and the 09G automatic. I've been getting the P0106 code for about 6 months. It shows up this way in VCDS (pay no attention to the date and time. The clock on my laptop doesn't work):

1 Fault Found:
000262 - Manifold / Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96) 
P0106 - 000 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 0
 Fault Frequency: 5
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 195585 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2000.00.00
Time: 11:11:48

Freeze Frame:
RPM: 595 /min
Load: 22.0 %
Speed: 9.0 km/h
Temperature: 86.0°C
Temperature: 42.0°C
Absolute Pres.: 1010.0 mbar
Voltage: 13.208 V

It will show up anytime I get caught in stop and go driving, or when I'm driving in a "spirited" fashion on twisty roads. It shows up only rarely when cruising down the highway. Today I did the cleaning as suggested by leOn. My situation was identical to his - an oily map sensor and an oily intake manifold, with a ribbon of oil on the bottom. I did it just as he suggested with one exception, I wiped the MAP sensor on the outside and gently dribbled the interior with carb cleaner, shook it out, and dried it in front of a fan. I didn't spray it with compressed air for fear of damaging it. Then I took it out for 50 miles of twisty roads, and the code came back twice. I cleared it each time with my laptop. When I got off the twisties, and back on the highway for 20 miles, it was fine, although previous experience says it will be back.

One other thing: I have a ScanGauge on top of the steering column. It's configured to read out MAP (among other things) continuously (1 sec update interval). The MAP readings I see on it always look normal 2.5 to 8.0 psia. I never see the 14.7 psia (≈1000 mbar) reading that shows up in the log of the P0106 error. I can't watch it continuously of course, but it seems strange that this "out of range" reading should pop up and disappear so quickly that I don't see it.

Some questions:
1. Is that much oil in the manifold normal at 120,000 miles, or does it indicate a failed PCV diaphragm?
- There is a slight vacuum pull on the oil cap at idle, but nothing I would call a "hard vacuum"
2. Could a failed PCV be causing it so quickly after I cleaned it?
3. Any thought on why stop and go or "spirited" driving causes it?
4. Can you tell me where to find TSB2034012/4. I Googled, but couldn't find it. My dealer is useless for this sort of thing.
- based on my ScanGage comment above, I'm wondering if the whole thing is a software glitch.

Now for an odd wrinkle - every time this happens it puts my transmission in "limp" mode. The entire PRNDS lights up and shifts are very hard. I can do a transmission kick down reset, but if I don't clear the P0106, the PRNDS light up and the hard shifting comes back in a few miles. The only trouble code for the transmission I ever get looks like this:

Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 09G-927-750.clb
Part No SW: 09G 927 750 JE HW: 09G 927 750 HE
Component: AQ 250 6F 1377 
Revision: 00H69000 Serial number: 
Coding: 0000840
Shop #: WSC 01357 011 00200
VCID: 7DDF02712495E5D615-8028

1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module 
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 0
Time Indication: 0

The P0106 and the transmission problem always occur together. Anytime the PRNDS lights up I will have the P0106. If I clear them both with VCDS, and do the kick down reset, everything is fine - smooth shifting, better throttle response - until the next occurrence. Curiously, the "Check Engine" light rarely lights, but the P0106 code is always there when I run a scan with VCDS.

Sorry for the long post, I wanted to make sure I got everything in there. Any help any of you can offer is greatly appreciated.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ did you check the MAP again to see if it was getting more oil on it?

did you clean your throttle body when you had it out of the way?

14.7 psia? that is atmospheric pressure at sea level (do you live near the coast?). perhaps that is a different sensor read out (barometric pressure sensor)?

even a small vacuum leak can cause shifting problems, so the minor P0106 mis-correlation can definitely be a culprit of the shifting problems.


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## bartolm (Aug 13, 2009)

I'll check it for oil again this weekend. Will also replace the N80 valve and maybe take the PCV diaphragm apart to see if it's broken. I got the replacement one from Dorman.

I ran some logs. The manifold pressure does get very close to atmospheric (I see 13.8 to 14.2 psia) when I accelerate even moderately (30% on the TPS readout). That always trips the P0106 code. I'm thinking there's an air leak so the manifold pressure is higher than what the ECU expects for a given engine speed and TPS reading. That's why I'm going to check the N80 and PCV.

I suppose it could be the MAP sensor reading higher than actual values, but that would make the engine run rich, and I'm not getting any indication of that. Also it reads 14.7 psia with the engine off, which is correct.

Yes I do live near the coast. I'm in south Louisiana, so I'm typically between 50' above and 8' below sea level.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

Intake manifold pressure readings will actually be in the negative psi values at idle.

Vacuum measurements (in/Hg):
20 @ 700rpm & 23 @ 3800rpm

You are either logging the wrong sensor or the sensor is shot.


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## bartolm (Aug 13, 2009)

I'm stating them in absolute pressure (full vacuum = 29.92 in Hg = 0 psia, atmospheric = 0 in Hg = 14.7 psia). I dump the log readings to a spreadsheet that converts them. It's easier for me to work with. I see how this can be confusing.

So the 13.8 to 14.2 psia I'm seeing at moderate acceleration is the same as 1.8 to 1.0 in Hg vacuum. At idle I see 5 psia = 19.7 in Hg vacuum so that looks about right.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

bartolm said:


> At idle I see *5 psia = 19.7 in Hg* vacuum so that looks about right.


at idle, i read -10.3 psi

at 2908 rpm, i read -10.6 psi

correct me if i'm wrong, but if you're seeing 5 psia at idle, your reading looks to be off by nearly half.

also, an online conversion calculator puts 5 psi to equal 10.180091537 inHg (inches of mercury); NOT 19.7


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

le0n said:


> I made a diy today to show any newcomers how simple this can be: http://www.europeanag.com/forum/index.php/topic,37339.0.html


ok. sorry to report that the simple cleaning didn't last very long (for me at least). i put in little over 6k miles since mid february. that may last some people for a year 

the code presented itself this weekend and on sunday i pulled the map sensor and it had oil on it again. did a quick clean of the MAP sensor only and threw it back in. the sensor port had oil again so i wiped that as best as i could with a napkin.

the subsequent 5 minute cleaning only lasted for two days worth of driving ~160 miles.

i'm going to dig around the vapor lines feeding into the intake and search for the one with the oil residue. i know for sure it is not the ones that plug into my cai tube because those are always super clean and dry. at this point i can only image it to be after the throttle body because the throttle body has never been wet with oil when i've removed it.

this is going to be my number one suspect for now. it looks like this joker can easily be bringing the goods from the PCV breather valve:









from this photo, i appears that it had oil here the night i removed it (note the shiny end):
i'm kind of wondering if there was a nice little pool of oil around that port on the inside of the plenum even after i cleaned it back in february? this location is a little difficult if not impossible to reach with a stick. i might have to use a curved-hook apparatus to get in this corner for the next cleaning.








(images snagged from my intake manifold removal diy).

perhaps my PCV diaphram is failing? or perhaps there is just too much buildup in there and the more obstacles on the walls of the vapor line encourage the oil to drop out of vapor more easier than it should. that line has been in use for over 180k miles.

i'll report back here if i find anything.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Le0n I replaced my PCV diaphram about 6 months ago because I thought (and other people suggested) that my PCV diaphram was bad or torn and allowing oil into the manifold. Well to my surprise I take the old one off and there was nothing wrong with it... Had to put the new one on cuz it's impossible to take off without breaking tabs. I took a picture of the inside let me try to find it so you can see whats behind that diaphram.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Couldn't post it but here's the thread

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7437201-Dorman-PCV-Diaphram-Replacememnt-part-question


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

mkV Fanatic said:


> Le0n I replaced my PCV diaphram about 6 months ago because I thought (and other people suggested) that my PCV diaphram was bad or torn and allowing oil into the manifold. Well to my surprise I take the old one off and there was nothing wrong with it... Had to put the new one on cuz it's impossible to take off without breaking tabs. I took a picture of the inside let me try to find it so you can see whats behind that diaphram.


cool, thanks.

yeah, i really think that vapor hose just needs to be cleaned, that or i need to clean the plenum in that area better.

i'm trying to avoid putting a catch can on this situation.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

le0n said:


> cool, thanks.
> 
> yeah, i really think that vapor hose just needs to be cleaned, that or i need to clean the plenum in that area better.
> 
> i'm trying to avoid putting a catch can on this situation.


Why are you avoiding a catch can? I've thought about getting one but I'd probably buy a kit versus piecing one together. Like this http://store.blackforestindustries.com/bficlcaoilse1.html


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

mkV Fanatic said:


> Why are you avoiding a catch can?


because i know the system works well enough to go ~100k miles without throwing errors.

those are nice kits though, but a little on the pricey side to say the least.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

So have you figured anything out about your situation Le0n? Also when you removed the throttle body did you put a new gasket in between it and the intake manifold or re-lube it with oil or anything? Gonna have to do this soon and see what the inside of the intake manifold looks like.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ not yet. i was busy last weekend.

i cleared the code and it hasn't come back yet. it even passed the readiness tests.

but i am still going to look at it this weekend when i change my oil.

in regards to your question; no, you don't have to put a new gasket or oil it. it's a dry connection so just make sure it is clean of any debris.


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## Chitownpassat (Oct 14, 2012)

*p0106*

What is the ultimate solution to keep this error code from showing up? My sensor was full of oil, I had it replaced and cleaned up I just don't want to make this repair again, so what is everyone doing?

Thanks


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

the current solution is thoroughly clean the intake plenum and to not replace the MAP sensor. oil will not harm the sensor, therefore, it does not need to be replaced.

we've found that when people swap a new sensor in there, it's only a matter of days before the oil gets on the new sensor and the code comes back.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

ok. i got in there tonight and removed the hose that goes to the PCV. you have to remove the throttle body to get this off.

this much oil was in the port and area immediately around the PCV hose port on the inside of the plenum:








the other corner of the napkin was from cleaning the port at the PCV. not much came out of there. the smaller scrunched napkin is from cleaning the MAP sensor and MAP sensor port.

i took the hose inside and washed it with water until the water ran clean. it still smelled of hydrocarbons, so i put the water to extremely hot and also put dishwashing liquid inside the hose. i held a bit of hot water in the hose by putting my thumbs over both ends. i agitated it for a few seconds and then ran hot water through it. the water ran brown for a second, so i knew it freed some old oil in there. i repeated a second time and it released another layer of oil. the third time i did it, no oil came out, only clean soapy water.

peeked in there again to see what oil was in there. it's been about 7k miles, i think, maybe a bit more:









anyway, cleaned it again, this time really focusing on the areas around the MAP sensor port and the PCV hose port:









i also removed the MAP sensor and cleaned it and the port area once again, then re-installed everything.

oh yeah, i cleaned the throttle body this time too.

so the code was still off from last week, so no need for me to clear any codes.

i'm hoping this will go 10k miles without throwing the CEL again.

i can say that it is definitely cleaner than the last cleaning i gave it.

i'll report back.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

You sir are the man :thumbup: Thanks for the great pictures and thorough explanations. I guess I never would have considered cleaning the hose itself but good idea with dish soap. I'd worry that something like engine degreaser or carb cleaner would mess up the rubber lining. I'm curious to see how much oil is in my manifold. I'll have to take pics when I do it


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ no problem. 

I do not use engine degreaser on a working engine. I've seen some hoses swell like crazy and get softer than a marshmallow when that stuff got on them.


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## Gunbu (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey guys,
I, too, have been having issues with the P0106 code... and just recently P2188. Managed to have the codes cleared for a little bit but nothing permanent yet. Manifolds removed, valve covers replaced, hoses replaced, spark plugs and of course the map sensor a few times. Even tried that technique of cutting the MAPs plastic guard around the sensor bud on one of them. I just always seem to have oil in the intake manifold, so I caved and bought parts for a catch can. I'll post some pics and stuff when I get everything in the mail. I haven't seen too many catch can how-tos for the 2.5l, so I'll be learning as I go. And if it does indeed stop the oil from getting into the manifold and fowling up the map sensor it'll be worth it. But we'll have to see about that!
2012 Golf 2.5l 66,000 miles. Car runs great and still get good gas mileage.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Gunbu said:


> Hey guys,
> I, too, have been having issues with the P0106 code... and just recently P2188. Managed to have the codes cleared for a little bit but nothing permanent yet. Manifolds removed, valve covers replaced, hoses replaced, spark plugs and of course the map sensor a few times. Even tried that technique of cutting the MAPs plastic guard around the sensor bud on one of them. I just always seem to have oil in the intake manifold, so I caved and bought parts for a catch can. I'll post some pics and stuff when I get everything in the mail. I haven't seen too many catch can how-tos for the 2.5l, so I'll be learning as I go. And if it does indeed stop the oil from getting into the manifold and fowling up the map sensor it'll be worth it. But we'll have to see about that!
> 2012 Golf 2.5l 66,000 miles. Car runs great and still get good gas mileage.


Just make sure you keep an eye on the catch can. Like checking it every few days to a week to see if it needs emptied and all the **** it'll be pulling out of your oil. Also are you getting a VTA catch can or a recirculating one?


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## Gunbu (Jan 12, 2012)

mkV Fanatic said:


> Just make sure you keep an eye on the catch can. Like checking it every few days to a week to see if it needs emptied and all the **** it'll be pulling out of your oil. Also are you getting a VTA catch can or a recirculating one?


Cool thanks, yeah I'm curious to see how fast the sludge will start to fill up the catch can. I chose to recirculate for the setup, read that it's good to have the vacuum of the intake help pull out nasty stuff.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

le0n said:


> i'll report back.


it's been a month and nearly 2000 miles since i cleaned the plenum + the pcv hose.

still cel free and still using my original (unmodified) map sensor.

good luck, everyone.


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## daslegit (Nov 6, 2011)

bumping an old thread... i am in need of some help.

i have a persistent p0106 & p0106P code. I cleaned the TB, MAP sensor, and intake manifold like others in this thread about 3 weeks ago. I only drive on the weekends and dont put many miles on my Jetta. It is a 09 with 88k miles. The next day I got a P2178 code. I figured the p2718 was from an exhaust leak which I just got repaired. 

After, I re scanned my car to find the p0106 again. When I cleared the code it came back on 40miles later. I put about 200miles since cleaning the tb/map/IM. I used to have this code come on and off itself in the past but now its frequent. If I clear the code it comes back on around 40 miles later (any particular reason for that)

I do have a neuspeed short ram intake on it.. I am thinking about putting the stock intake back on, will this help alleviate the problem? (I am noticing a burping type noise with the intake on deceleration) Any suggestions are welcome. I will also clean the PCV hose as well. 

Thanks for reading


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

get the P2178 code resolved first.

that could be a failing o2 sensor (bank1 sensor1) or even a leaky injector.

see if the 2178 code comes back.

also, was your MAP sensor oily?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

le0n said:


> it's been a month and nearly 2000 miles since i cleaned the plenum + the pcv hose.
> 
> still cel free and still using my original (unmodified) map sensor.
> 
> good luck, everyone.


coming up on another three months; ~6000 more miles. still no cel.


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## daslegit (Nov 6, 2011)

le0n said:


> get the P2178 code resolved first.
> 
> that could be a failing o2 sensor (bank1 sensor1) or even a leaky injector.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response, the p2178 has not returned. 

My MAP was very oily and the throttle body was filthy as well.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

check the map sensor again for oil. i suspect it has more.

wipe clean the inside plenum wall where the pcv attaches to.

clean the pcv hose and reassemble.

try again.

let us know what happens.

i don't believe the short ram intake is causing this issue.


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## daslegit (Nov 6, 2011)

le0n said:


> check the map sensor again for oil. i suspect it has more.
> 
> wipe clean the inside plenum wall where the pcv attaches to.
> 
> ...


I was finally able to work on the jetta. After a week of sitting, i started it up and it wasnt good. The start/idle was rough. Scanned it and got 2188 + p0106. I drove it to a friends house a few blocks away to where I cleaned map/pcv/plenum wall. The map had a little bit of oil not much and so did the plenum (cleaned them two weeks ago). The pcv surprising was pretty dry. I cleared codes. 

drove 80 miles and the CEL for p0106 went on. I cleared it and drove another 60 miles and it came back on. I noticed that the p0106 is usually pending too. 

Im starting to think i have a bad o2 sensor. Question is... why is the p0106 only showing up and the 2178 ive only seen twice. Is one affecting the other? 

I noticed on my obd scanner that my car cannot pass the "EVAP" and "secondary air system (2AIR)" monitors which is why it is failing.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

P2188 could be from un-accounted fuel vapor passing through a faulty N80 purge valve, then entering to be burned in the cylinders.

a clamp could be placed on the N80 purge valve hose to close it off completely. then drive your "40 miles" to see how things act.


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## daslegit (Nov 6, 2011)

Thanks le0n, i will try that. Noticing my engine vibrating when i am holding the brake at idle.

also when idling i tried to take off the oil cap.. i was able to but felt vaccum suction. would this be a potential pcv/valve cover issue?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

daslegit said:


> also when idling i tried to take off the oil cap.. i was able to but felt vaccum suction. *would this be a potential pcv/valve cover issue?*


how bad was the engine idling after you removed the oil cap.

if it gets really rough after you've removed the cap, then yes, it could be the pcv valve.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Well I was digging through this thread again yesterday one more time before I pulled the trigger finally and cleaned my intake manifold!! And to my surprise the intake manifold was just coated with a layer of oil on the bottom and sides and of coarse on the MAP sensor. And man is the MAP sensor in a bad spot. If it would've been placed like a half inch higher this might not be a problem instead of at the bottom of the manifold. And Le0n... Thank you again sir for providing every little bit of information that I needed and answering all the questions I had and the awesome DIY you made. The one question I have left is do you clear the code each time you cleaned the intake manifold? Or do you just wait for the next drive cycle cuz I don't have access to any type of code reader now because Advanced Auto quit letting there customers use theirs  :banghead: and weren't clear on the reason why .


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ no problem at all. 

It'll clear by itself. 

Also get the "Elm--327 bluetooth CAN-BUS" device from ebay. The US sellers sell them for less than 8 bucks (shipped). That and the Torque app work very well together.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Ya I'll have to look into a Bluetooth dongle because it's not clearing itself. I've driven ~120 miles or so and it's still staring me in the face. Also had to get a new battery Saturday so disconnecting the battery did nothing as well. I'm 98% positive that the MAP sensor is working again because my revs are dropping soooo smoothly now compared to before and the idle is as smooth as butter :thumbup:. And according to the one guy at Advanced Auto clearing codes by yourself is illegal??? I've never ever heard that before Saturday is such and absurd statement true? Has it always been like this or this a new thing or complete bull?


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## Nettozx (Dec 31, 2015)

mkV Fanatic said:


> Ya I'll have to look into a Bluetooth dongle because it's not clearing itself. I've driven ~120 miles or so and it's still staring me in the face. Also had to get a new battery Saturday so disconnecting the battery did nothing as well. I'm 98% positive that the MAP sensor is working again because my revs are dropping soooo smoothly now compared to before and the idle is as smooth as butter :thumbup:. And according to the one guy at Advanced Auto clearing codes by yourself is illegal??? I've never ever heard that before Saturday is such and absurd statement true? Has it always been like this or this a new thing or complete bull?


Total BS, you can clear codes. You're supposed to clear codes after you fix something.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

silly auto parts employee.

it's not illegal.

if your idle is better, just order the scanner and wait for it to come in to clear them yourself. don't rely on advance auto employees for code scanning ever again.


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## Gunbu (Jan 12, 2012)

Hey guys,
I just want to report that I've successfully gotten rid of my P0106 and P2188 codes finally. Turns out that one of the sensors was bad in the throttle body, and installing a new one cleared it up right away.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ very nice.

congratulations


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Well boys I'm back :wave:

This time with some what of a different question. I am now getting a permanent code of P0106 and pending codes of P2187 and P0507. The MAP sensor I'll have to attempt to clean better this time with carb cleaner maybe. The system too lean at idle(P2178) I'm pretty sure is because of the MAP sensor as well, mainly because sometimes I get a rich code(P2188) and sometimes it's a lean code. The P0507 is idle air control system RPM higher than expected. That I believe might be an intake leak? But really my main question is the PID values when reading live data. Does anyone know what the correct values for the BARO PID, MAP reading PID and Absolute Throttle Position value (mine currently reads 13.7% at idle). This is my first time reading and dealing with live data and I'm a little lost if you can't tell hahaha. Any info you guys could provide would be awesome and thanks in advance.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Well today I took off the throttle body again to give the intake a more thorough cleaning this time. Got everything off, cleaned the MAP sensor and it's port, cleaned the PCV tube and it's port, and even cleaned the inner side of the throttle body of what looked like carbon build up, and of course the manifold itself. And to my amazement just like the last time I did this, it worked!! So I'm driving around just testin it out and I'm in love with the car all over again because it drives like it should! Then, all of a sudden (again just like last time but the engine light did not come on this time but there was a pending code) the P0106 is back and the idle is a little off again and everything. Why does this only last about 5 to 10 minutes? Then it's back to it's fouled MAP self. Is my MAP sensor done? Are one of my O2 sensors bad now and causing an off reading? Can someone shed some light on this for me I'm starting to be dumb founded by this. Thanks for any help.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

mkV Fanatic said:


> Are one of my O2 sensors bad now and causing an off reading?


i don't believe it can be your o2 sensor/s, so leave those alone.

refresh my memory as to what year your 2.5 is, please.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

le0n said:


> i don't believe it can be your o2 sensor/s, so leave those alone.
> 
> refresh my memory as to what year your 2.5 is, please.


It's a 2010, manual trans if that makes a difference. Does anyone know what the normal parameters should be for the be for the before cat O2 sensor and after cat O2 sensor? I'm not entirely sure if I have 3 sensors still


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ try to diagnose if your pcv is working properly.


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

Well the PCV valve has been replaced maybe 8 months ago I guess it's possible it's bad but I think it may be deeper than that I'm thinking the slight oil consumption over a year has possibly gunked up my O2 sensor (hopefully its not ruined). Tried another new MAP sensor and boom 15 min later engine light back on. I also get a rich at idle and a rich off idle code and occasionally a O2 sensor fault code. The dealership is no help which I knew but all they say is the MAP sensor is bad which obviously is not the problem. Is it possible that the wiring or plug itself to the MAP sensor is bad or is shorting out somewhere? Where do the wires lead to? I really do love this car but man it must not like me for some reason hahaha


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

rich at idle could be a faulty fuel injector.

also, what o2 sensor code are you getting?


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

le0n said:


> rich at idle could be a faulty fuel injector.
> 
> also, what o2 sensor code are you getting?


**** I'm hoping it's not a fuel injector. And the O2 sensor code I get is Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Signal B1 S3: too Rich P2275 - Intermittent
That specifically came from the $10,000 scanner that my buddy uses at his shop. What it gives for the MAP sensor code is this Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96) : Implausible Signal P0106
What the hell does that even mean? The ECU is getting a reading from the MAP sensor just not a correct reading? This doesn't make any sense. It makes me think though when I read live data from the handheld scanner I have it reads in PSI and I see figures between 0.9 to 13.4 psi and 4.1 psi at idle. Now correct me if I'm wrong but how does a naturally aspirated engine have a positive pressure reading in the manifold? It's supposed to be the exact opposite.

Well again boys you've all been very helpful (especially Le0n) so I thank you :beer:


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

^^ the following is from page 3 of this thread.



le0n said:


> at idle, i read -10.3 psi
> 
> at 2908 rpm, i read -10.6 psi


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## mkV Fanatic (Oct 23, 2014)

le0n said:


> ^^ the following is from page 3 of this thread.


That's good to know thank you. But that's really weird that I'm reading 4.1 at idle. Maybe I'll have to talk to my buddy about this again and see if he has any ideas to what the hell is going on. I mean if there was a short or bad connection somewhere the MAP wouldn't be sending any type of reading right?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

in theory, if the sensor is bad, you'll get bad readings.

if the connection is bad, you'll get intermittent readings or no readings at all.

there is a possibility of a short that is altering the resistive values being read.

are you reading with Torque or something else? do you have access to vagcom?


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## mjb8482 (Mar 4, 2008)

mkV Fanatic said:


> **** I'm hoping it's not a fuel injector. And the O2 sensor code I get is Oxygen (Lambda) Sensor Signal B1 S3: too Rich P2275 - Intermittent
> That specifically came from the $10,000 scanner that my buddy uses at his shop. What it gives for the MAP sensor code is this Manifold/Barometric Pressure Sensor (G71) / (F96) : Implausible Signal P0106
> What the hell does that even mean? The ECU is getting a reading from the MAP sensor just not a correct reading? This doesn't make any sense. It makes me think though when I read live data from the handheld scanner I have it reads in PSI and I see figures between 0.9 to 13.4 psi and 4.1 psi at idle. Now correct me if I'm wrong but how does a naturally aspirated engine have a positive pressure reading in the manifold? It's supposed to be the exact opposite.
> 
> Well again boys you've all been very helpful (especially Le0n) so I thank you :beer:



It is an absolute pressure sensor. Ambient pressure is 14.7 psi (depending on altitude & weather, but pretty close). So anything read below 14.7 is relative vacuum. Hopefully that helps. :beer:


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

There is no negative pressure in the nature. Absolute pressure is always a positive value. When your reading is above atmospheric pressure you mean a positive pressure. When the reading is less than the atmospheric pressure then you mean a relative vacuum. So your 4.1 psi reading is pretty normal for a 2.5L engine. I usually read around 28 to 35 kPa (4 - 5 psi) at idle.

I wanted to start a new thread on sensor issues I'm trying to figure out but thought my problem is similar to the problems described in this thread and decided to share my experience here. Ok. I will try to explain the issue with my poor English.

I've been occasionally getting the P0106 code for about a year and half now. Car would go into limp mode or made bad shifts. At the beginning the solution was straight forward. Just connected OBD device and resetted the code. That would manage the situation for 3 - 4 months and then again. During that time, I once replaced my PCV diaphragm as it was a little bit deformed. But idle has gone more rough over the time. I was feeling noisy idle during cold starts. Over the time, idling got worse. The engine developed stumble (or coughing couple of times ) on cold start ups. No other problems other than that. Acceleration and fuel consumption is just fine.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Lately I realized that I need to monitor other parameters too as air-fuel mixture ECU calculates is a function of air flow rate and temperature. While looking into Torque app for more displays I found 3 temperature displays that would likely influence cold startup management in some way. These are ambient air temperature, intake air temperature and coolant temperature. I've read somewhere that the ECU drops O2 sensor readings during cold startup and takes these parameters into account to manage the engine until cat will get to operating temperature. Finding that interesting I installed the Torque displays and monitored cold startup values as well as warm engine values in the hope I would find discrepancies.

It is now 3 months I have been monitoring manifold absolute pressure, air temperature and coolant temperature. I'm particularly concentrated on cold startups. Therefore, I usually read the values before starting the engine while intentionally preferring cold mornings for the purpose. So I had 2 constants ready: *12 hours parking and above zero degrees cold morning air*.

First thing I found interesting my coolant temperature was always above 20 C (68 F) during winter time  regardless of the outside temperature. Second, my intake air temperature is not even close to the outside air temperature. 10 degrees Celsius difference at the least.

This screen was shot with key ACC on, engine off. During a 12 hour parking, one would expect ambient air temperature, intake air temperature and coolant temperature equalize but as you see they didn't. Outside air temp is 37 F (real), intake air 54 F (wrong), coolant 68 F (absolutely wrong).










This screen was shot after startup around 20 secs.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

During the 3 months, I found near or so approximately the same results in the morning tests. I want to notice MAP pressure readings were ok, no CEL but it took long time for the engine to warm. I'd drove around 10 minutes before I felt warm air out of the vents. So that is interesting too. Intake air and coolant temperature values were always wrong.Sometimes shifting to higher gears needed higher RPMs but I think the reason for that is engine was cold. That was an indication of lean condition but for unknown reason other sensors didn't react.

Tests were going fine until once upon a day in the morning I got readings like below.

Key on, engine off.










All temperatures were equal. :sly: I'd never expect an accuracy like this from a car sensor but when I turned key I noticed that engine started fine, went smooth rev, quiet idle and got warm in a relatively short time.

For comparison: Torque readings after driving for about 15 minutes.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Later in early January while on freeway, noticed wrench symbol on the panel. Car acted weird, hard shifts at 2nd, 3rd gear and gas hesitation, usual symptoms of P0106. Pulled the car over. Used my OBD device to read stored DTC and found this:










Cleared the codes and the wrench symbol went off.

Did cleaning of throttle body and MAP sensor the next day. Upon inspection found oily sensor and dirty throttle valve. Used WD-40 and some absolute alcohol for the purpose.










The intake MAP sensor has a temperature sensor built in. I believe the issue is somehow related to temperature management as most times I encountered P0106 codes during long (more than 100 miles) trips or in summer time. Therefore I decided to swap out old stock MAP sensor with a new one I recently ordered. At the same time I'll replace upper CTS to see if it makes any improvement.


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## WVENGINEER (Feb 17, 2017)

my girlfriends jetta is having this same CEL Code and shifting hard as well. Does a new PCV Valve permanently fix the problem?


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

update: i've been code free since may of last year. haven't peeked in there or cleaned anything since either.



Ronny Bensys said:


> ...At the same time I'll replace upper CTS to see if it makes any improvement.


it's only been a month or so, but do you have any updates?



WVENGINEER said:


> my girlfriends jetta is having this same CEL Code and shifting hard as well. Does a new PCV Valve permanently fix the problem?


^^ i doubt it.

although, a new pcv will fix any errors related to the pcv.


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

le0n said:


> it's only been a month or so, but do you have any updates?


Ordered two (in case one is defective) CTS 06A919501A. I have a new MAP sensor. Waiting for the delivery of coolant sensors.


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## daslegit (Nov 6, 2011)

after a ton of procrastination, i changed my valve cover and the engine light went off on its own the next day. I'll wait and see if it returns


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## Ronny Bensys (Apr 17, 2014)

Replaced my MAP sensor and upper CTS in April. I wanted to replace lower one too but I couldn't find the location. Not sure if it really exists in 2.5L.

No codes or limp mode since then. Coolant temperature readings went back to normal. It is really hot this summer, temperatures are over 110 F and each day she is roasted in the parking lot. But driving smooth and fine. On the contrary, I am really unsure the issue was related to CTS.

I want to add some more. Keep your eye on the oil volume. Real overfill can again damage the PCV diaphragm and MAP sensor when they are new or replaced recently.

My opinion about cold startup coughs / stumble. I think Secondary Air Injection system is the cause. I'm listening to it as well. I think the issue is somehow related to the air valve. The stumble occurs when it is closing and the air pump is finally slowing down to stop. Though I still have to check and verify my theory.


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## RavOcean (Jul 27, 2017)

Hey guys. I'm having the same problem. Please follow this post and share your thoughts. I'd deeply appreciated it!
Thank you!

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...issues-and-headache&p=106938433#post106938433


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## Vr6Corey (Jan 28, 2009)

RavOcean said:


> Hey guys. I'm having the same problem. Please follow this post and share your thoughts. I'd deeply appreciated it!
> Thank you!
> 
> http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...issues-and-headache&p=106938433#post106938433


I responded to that thread for you


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## kevinmfconrey (Feb 18, 2016)

edb4 said:


> So if anyone remembers (which you shouldn't), I've had constant problems with my 09 Rabbit throwing a CEL for P0106 (Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Range/Performance Problem). Until recently, it's been a real non-issue. Had a shop check the signal coming from the MAP and everything appeared within range. No performance problems, and everything seemed OK, so the CEL is usually just cleared, and I can go on my way. ~100mi later, the light will come back. After a while, I started (infrequently) getting a rough idle and rich codes. Upon scanning, I saw that my fuel trim was -25% at idle, while when running normally, this value hovered around -5%. A shutoff/restart would solve the issue. Took her into the shop and decided that first course of action is to replace the MAP. Doing so now throws all of these codes, no matter the state of the car (warm, cold, drove for 1 minute or 1 hour):
> 
> P0106: Manifold Absolute Pressure/Barometric Pressure Circuit Range/Performance Problem
> P2178: System Too Rich Off Idle bank1
> ...


Take it to a vw dealer and get a software update in the ecu. I tried everything I've read and when the technician mentioned a software update fixes the problem. I had this done in January 2017 and it never happened again. It stops the "phantom MAP failure symptoms".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kieran123 (Feb 2, 2017)

I'm curious if the software update fixes the symptoms, or just stops the codes being thrown? I have the codes, but also have jerking and lumpy driving at low RPM.


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

kieran123 said:


> I'm curious if the software update fixes the symptoms, or just stops the codes being thrown? I have the codes, but also have jerking and lumpy driving at low RPM.


in most cases, it just fixes the fault trigger for the P0106 error.

as far as i can tell, most people with this specific and only error code have engines that are idling smoothly, running smoothly and getting normal mpgs. the cel is mainly an annoyance.

if you are getting jerking at low idle, it could be something else in addition to the P0106 error.


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## bmurray716 (Mar 11, 2010)

Thank you for everyone that has contributed to this thread.

I also have this same issue and my car is at dealer getting "fixed" now. I've already replaced the MAP, and installed the Dorman PCV repair kit. Still getting the P0106 error code. The dealer rep mentioned the ecm update, although he indicated they will charge me for diagnostic, and also for the reflash. I was able to find the TSB content at the Passatworld web site. 

A link to where I posted about my problem can be found here: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?7720330-000262-and-01314-Faults-Related&p=107999449#post107999449

well, picked up car yesterday and the tech could not figure out what was wrong. As it turns out the TSB does not apply to my car as I have a 2010, and the TSB is for 2011-2014. So no reflash of ecm. He said that the fuel trim was 0.6% out of range. The MIL is off for now but the counters have not been reset so probably sometime today it should tell me if I still have the same problem. He did mention that since the fuel filter hasn't been changed and the car has 103K mi, that could be it but it may not be and to his credit he didn't want to just throw parts at the problem. 

10/18 update - replaced throttle body and now car is back to running like normal. Only took three trips to the dealer to fix


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## le0n (Jun 12, 2013)

it's been over a year since the cleaning: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?5626102-Picking-your-brain-again-vortexers-09-Rabbit-P0106-P2178-P2188&p=96448121&viewfull=1#post96448121

still on the original MAP sensor.


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## AlphaBetaJetta (Sep 24, 2017)

I will try cleaning my throttle body at some point this weekend. I have a Jetta 1.8 SE. Hopefully it helps.


My issue is negative fuel trims. 
No codes.
Cleaned MAP Sensors, it was oily.
Replaced air filter. It was old and dirty.


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