# Ignition maps on 1.8t



## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

Hi,
i just wondered about my experiences last weekend.I made a cable to use the knock sensor with a speaker to recognize engine knock.I noticed,that i have knock at hard load even with almost 4-5 degree of advance with 11:1 AFR.With this settings the car was so weak,it had about 50 hp or less...








I hear the "twang" noise every time i give hard load.I put +10 degrees in my whole table, i noticed the same noise,but car had so much power.With bare ears i didnt noticed knock.
What could this "twang" noise be?Please post your ignition maps here.


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## GTOBB (Dec 30, 2003)

bro just logs your ecu and you can see how much your ecu retard ignition, AFR 11 is tooooo rich .
ist stock car or chipped/modded ?


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (GTOBB)*

I have Megasquirt on it. i didnt thin 11:1 is too much,i have now detonation issues according to sy on Msextra.com.


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (radics1)*

fwiw. I messed around a few years ago with some chip tuned big turbo 1.8ts and found that they where running like 4-8* advance under boost. And still showing knock in the ecu block values. Then last year a friend of mine put together a Corrado with a AWP swap, custom turbo,ect. tuned with sds on race fuel with 32* advance under load. And from what I hear... That is not unrealistic. It blows my mind to think that you can run that much timing under 20+ psi of boost, but the 5 valve head and cumbustion chamber are so effecient that the burn rate is so that it can handle alot of timing. So my 2 cents. You eiher have a issue with your knock sensor.... It is picking up external noise some where, or possibly a fuel issue if it is actually detonating. You may have gotten a bad tank of fuel. Just some ideas.
Stan


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (dub101)*

Hi,
what type of fuel did your friend used?Race fuel? I think this should have 110 octane or more. As you said,you noticed engine knock even at 4-8 degrees. I hear it from 7 psi,i am running it only with 14 psi now on stock K03. I use normal 95 octane gasoline,wich may be different in our country than in yours. 32 degree at high load is impossible according to my experiences.
I ran the car on E85 before,i didnt noticed any type of knock,and i had about 10 deg more advance in the whole table.I think it is not a good choice to use high CR (9,5:1) in a turbo engine,if it must be so retarded.
I dont know how can chipped engines with the K04 handle 20+ psi without knock.Maybe ignition advance lowered to 0 or below,wich makes engine inefficient and make high EGT.


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (radics1)*

The fuel my friend uses is C16 oxygenated race fuel 116 octane. And we ran 26 psi on our chipped big turbo cars and saw 4-8* advance. However that being said. My personal car is a 8v turbo and I run 92 octane pump gas and run 17-18* advance under boost. 17 psi to be exact with no detonation. I have run as much as 24 psi with 20 degrees advance with pump gas and no detonation. I just feel from my experience that there may be something else going on for you to hear knock(detonation) with such a conservative timing curve. Maybe your base settings in the ecu for tdc are incorrect causing your timing map to be off?? Or I'm COMPLETELY wrong and dont know what I am talking about. Why is it so hard to get timing map info out of people. There are alot of people on the boards here running sem on 1.8ts and no one else has any input??? wierd








Stan
and just to be clear I didnt hear any knock. We just saw timing corrections the ecu was making from knock sensor inputs.


_Modified by dub101 at 6:24 PM 9-17-2009_


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (dub101)*

Hi,
what CR do you have? My car has 9,5:1 in stock wich is high.
I checked my timing with a light,it is good.It is strange,with ms2 i didnt had that issues.I thinked first my timing is off,but probably it is in the right place,with fixed 10 degree i see this on the light too.
Sadly no one other posts here his experiences.


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (radics1)*

My buddies drag car is a stock AWP with a T3/T4 60-1 and is pushing 26 psi with 30+ degrees of advance with NO retard. 
My 8v comp. ration is around 9:1. It's a PG short block with a ABA cross flow head that was milled .020". And the 20v head is so much more efficient that it should easily be able to handle more timing then my 8v. That's why I am saying that there might be another issue? 
Stan


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (dub101)*

well,maybe i missed something. Maybe poor fuel quality here in Hungary.
Well i dont want to blow up my engine.I use a huge fmic,so intake temps are usually 43 deg and below.
AT the weekend i will try to sort out all the problems.Maybe the spark plugs are shut,i didnt changed them,and i run with them arould 50.000 km.I dont know,when had the previour owner changed them. What spark plug type would you reccomend for my car? Heat range?


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (radics1)*

to be honest I love the factory 1.8t plugs. NGK PFR6Q They are a laser platinum plug and I have never had one fail, or foul. Run them at the factory gap. Good Luck with it. Let me know how you make out.
Stan


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (dub101)*

Hi,
i read somewhere that for bigger boost the stock plugs must be change (another heat range) to keep engine from knock.
I search here a bit around.


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## iluvfastcarz (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (radics1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *radics1* »_Hi,
i read somewhere that for bigger boost the stock plugs must be change (another heat range) to keep engine from knock.
I search here a bit around.

This is true, usually for every extra 50hp you are supposed to go one heat range colder. I am using these r5671a-9 in my motor. The car doesn't drive as well when it is cold, but it is a monster once they warm up. Give me your email address and I will send you my Megasquirt map that I have been running for months now on a stock AEB motor on 21psi from a K27.


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (iluvfastcarz)*

Hi,
thanks in advance! What type of fuel do you use? I run only 15 psi on stock k03,using european 95 octane gasoline.Maybe i go back to E85,it was far better with that.
[email protected]


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## iluvfastcarz (Mar 15, 2004)

*Re: (radics1)*

I use regular 93 octane. I will send you the MSQ later on today.


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (radics1)*

Just curious, are you sure your trigger angle is spot on and the timing you think you are getting from your map is actual?
i.e. set table to fixed and check angle with a timing light?


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Hi,
surely,i checked my timing with a light at fixed angle.I gived a little throttle to see if it moves with rpm,but did not.
I typed in 10, 15 and 20 degrees for fixed angle,all was spot on the mark.
I dont know what happened,today i opened my msq on the laptop and reloaded it to my MS,the problems went gone.I added 3 degrees in the whole map,car ran far better,and no rattle issue than before.For security i changed my map right back where it was.I think it was a MS issue or my spark plugs are goind to hell.
I should change them immediately,because they have 50000+ on the tacho.
What do you recommend,what i can buy here in europe too?


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## dub101 (Jul 19, 2002)

*Re: (radics1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *radics1* »_Hi,
surely,i checked my timing with a light at fixed angle.I gived a little throttle to see if it moves with rpm,but did not.
I typed in 10, 15 and 20 degrees for fixed angle,all was spot on the mark.
I dont know what happened,today i opened my msq on the laptop and reloaded it to my MS,the problems went gone.I added 3 degrees in the whole map,car ran far better,and no rattle issue than before.For security i changed my map right back where it was.I think it was a MS issue or my spark plugs are goind to hell.
I should change them immediately,because they have 50000+ on the tacho.
What do you recommend,what i can buy here in europe too?


That's Great. Glad you got it licked!!! Have a great weekend.


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (dub101)*

Whatever,i am still looking for other's map,just to know the form of my map is right! I know i should raise the timing with rpm,but now it is still the same after 3000 rpm,i dont know how much should i raise it.I need to calculate the flame front travel time somehow...


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (radics1)*

Hi,
after a few days problem came back,so i brought a set of BKR7E plugs,now the car is so different! I have now part throttle power,my afr-s are so much different.I think i had inefficient fuel burn,wich caused "richer afr than real".
Now i see it is really lean where i felt i have no power.I retune the whole map,and see what happens


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## sdezego (Apr 23, 2004)

*Re: (radics1)*

Cool, Keep us posted.


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## radics1 (Jul 31, 2008)

*Re: (sdezego)*

Hi,
it runs good,i must do a remap,i didnt had time yet.
I will try to raise the advance a bit.I am running 95 pump gas (European gas)
Hopely i will have no knocks now.


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