# Touareg service nightmare



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

I took delivery of a Touareg on Saturday, Dec 6, and was happy -- for a few minutes. On Sunday, the emissions failure light came on and I called my dealer to arrange to drop the car off on Sunday night to get fixed.
On Monday at 3pm I still hadn't heard from the dealer so I called and found out that they were still working on the car and it wouldn't be ready until Tuesday. This seemed strange as emissions failures are typically easy to diagnose and fix given the computers used by today’s mechanics and the [assumed] availability of parts.
On Tuesday I called and they had fixed the first problem but now the computer was giving a new error code. They started work on that and by this afternoon they had replaced the part indicated by the computer but the problem wasn’t fixed. Late this afternoon they figured out that they needed yet another part and that part takes 6-8 weeks to order! I talked to the shop manager and they agreed to pull the part from one of the cars sitting on their new car lot and put it in the car tomorrow. I guess that means they’ll have a car they won’t be able to sell for a couple of months. That’s certainly better than me having a new car that doesn’t work for two months. I have my fingers crossed that I’ll actually get my new car back tomorrow afternoon in working order.
While I was talking with the shop manager he told me that VWOA has a new service procedure for the Touaregs. Instead of using the tried and true method of training mechanics on the new car, distributing full manuals with instructions, and letting the trained mechanic decide what needs to be done they’re trying something new. The mechanic reads the error code from the computer and emails the code to some centralized location where they look over the error code and send back instructions on what to do – what to adjust, replace, tweak, hit with a hammer, … Given the volume of problems they are seeing, this centralized diagnosis model has become a bottleneck and is ensuring that what used to take a day to fix will take two or even three for a Touareg.
I’m starting to see more posting of folks that are having problems and serious customer service issues with VW service. I was considering driving to Colorado from California for Christmas. Now I’m having serious second thoughts. What happens if I get somewhere in the middle of Nevada and a part fails that takes 6-8 weeks to order fails? Even if I could find a dealer within 100 miles I doubt they’d be motivated to pull a part from a new car. It’s bad enough that even for a simple fix I’d probably be stuck for a couple of days.
How many other folks with new Touaregs are having failures? Please let me know. I’m beginning to wonder if I bought the right SUV.


----------



## styx (Nov 7, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

3600 miles.... knock wood, no problems.


----------



## Uriah (Nov 2, 2003)

Knock it lightly or you'll need to get it replaced...
(I tried this joke in another thread.. it sucked there, too







)


----------



## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

bummer. interesting info about the bottleneck, I'll have to ask my dealer about it.
There's no question that this is a "learning vehicle" for VW, in terms of engineering, sales, and service ... all around. Not only that, but we're buying / have bought one in the first year of production, clearly a risky move ... all around.


----------



## royeus (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (sciencegeek)*

Well, sciencegeek, I understood that we'd be in for some surprises given that the T-reg is so new....however, I cannot give VWOA that much benefit of the doubt. They are a huge, multinational car manufacturer so there's no reason why they could not establish an appropriate infrastructure first prior to starting to sell an upscale SUV. I mean, how do they think they're going to get away with their Touareg attitude when they start selling the $20K+ more expensive Phaeton? Will a Phaeton driver simply say, OK, I'll take a Geo loaner while you work on my car for 1-3 weeks? Unlikely. Part of the car buying experience directly relates to the post-purchase customer care, which currently VW sucks at.
I mean, we're not talking Bricklin or DeLorean here...sheesh.
















Roy


_Modified by royeus at 7:55 AM 12-11-2003_


----------



## Webby (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

I know exactly how you feel Daryl. I took delivery of a Treg with a front-end noise and promptly returned it to the dealer workshop. Long story, but essentially they scratched their heads for 3 weeks (amongst many reasons also citing they were waiting on return emails from Germany







) before deciding a direction. I ended up demanding and getting a new car.
Very stressful and highly inconvenient situation, and even to this very day no-one from the dealer or VW has contacted me to simply say "sorry". Strange way to run a business, and I can guarantee that this will be my one and only ever VW ownership experience.


_Modified by Webby at 1:28 PM 12-11-2003_


----------



## mdjak (Aug 13, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (Webby)*

Sorry to hear about your experience. That sure can sour anyone. However, I have over 13,000 miles in four months and my car is amazing. Don't let one incident spoil your ownership of the car. Go on your trip without a worry. If something happens, deal with it then. You can't go through life worrying about things that might happen. As they tell people in AA, don't spend time worrying about things you can't control, or they will control you.
It really stinks that you had that problem. Hopefully, it will never crop up again, or anything like it, and you will have many years of trouble free driving.


----------



## Rob in CT (Sep 15, 2003)

*Glass is half full.*

Would you rather have a recently trained mechanic at your local dealer who's previous experience is working on Passats and Golfs diagnose your Treg problem or an engineering team with a database that includes 30,000+ Touaregs diagnose your problem? Of course it would have been nice for all of us if VW delayed Touareg introduction to iron out some of these issues but that didn't happen. If this were GM or Chrysler, they would not have reacted to these problems by centralizing their tech support. You'd still have Joe down at your local dealer scratching his head, probably running through a non-logical, incomplete decision tree trying to fix your problem. My guess is that even with the bottlenecks, the Tregs with problems are being serviced and returned to customers faster than they would be otherwise. IMO
All that aside - some dealers just suck.


_Modified by Rob in CT at 8:42 AM 12-11-2003_


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

Unfortunately, sometimes things need to get worse before they get better. VWOA has a poor reputation of customer response - cf. the ignition coil fiasco and only massive bad publicity forced the company into doing the right thing - stupid marketing but consistent with VW's efforts in this area, of late.
One can feel for your pain and the uncertainty of not being able to use a very expensive piece of machinery due to that uncertainty.
Perhaps the best advice that can be given is to use it in a (nearly) normal fashion and if something goes wrong, get it fixed BUT because California has a reasonable Lemon Law which more consumers should use because, that is one way to increase the consumer responsiveness of organizations like VWOA.
If you want more info on the CAlifornia Lemon Law, go here:
http://www.ameinfo.com/news/Detailed/32145.html
This a site run by trial lawyers but it does have the virtue of having links to the details of each state lemon law statutes. It sounds as if the 30 day meter (for California) on your car may be ticking.
Good luck!


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*

Sorry. The paragraph 
Perhaps the best advice that can be given is to use it in a (nearly) normal fashion and if something goes wrong, get it fixed BUT because California has a reasonable Lemon Law which more consumers should use because, that is one way to increase the consumer responsiveness of organizations like VWOA.
should have read:
Perhaps the best advice that can be given is to use it in a (nearly) normal fashion and if something goes wrong, get it fixed BUT DOCUMENT EVERYTHING ESPECIALLY TIME IN THE SHOP because California has a reasonable Lemon Law which more consumers should use because, that is one way to increase the consumer responsiveness of organizations like VWOA.


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*

Sorry, the link is wring. It should be:
http://www.yourlemonlawrights....-Laws


----------



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Glass is half full. (Rob in CT)*

Yeah, I would have rather had a mechanic that is trained to use modern equipment read the code from his computer, look up in a service manual what part causes that code, and replace that part. VW evidently hasn't even distributed the full service manuals.
"Modern" car repair has basically boiled down to the proceedure above -- replace what the computer tells you until the problem goes away. This centralized fount of knowledge is adding nothing but delays. I would trust a trained mechanic who can actually see my car to a faceless person 1000's of miles away. Actually, the final fix has been started without the blessing of the Oracle. If they had waited to get an audience with her it would be yet another day.


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Glass is half full. (darylhuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darylhuff* »_
"Modern" car repair has basically boiled down to the proceedure above -- replace what the computer tells you until the problem goes away. This centralized fount of knowledge is adding nothing but delays. 

That "keep trying til you get it right" attitude is why you must document everything. The lemon laws were organized to give the consumer a "safety valve" so that, after some period of time, the manufacturer cannot keep playing around with the consumer. 
Roughly speaking, in CA, if the manufacturer cannot get the car running right after 30 days in the shop in the first year (which is probably far too long), it has to buy it back. Many consumers do not know of this "safety valve" which was organized to protect against (yup, you got it) lemon cars.
Good luck.


----------



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Glass is half full. (trexer001)*

Thanks for the Lemon Law pointer, I will be keeping very percise records.
The comment about projecting Touareg service to the Phaeton is right on. My other car is a 1997 Mercedes. It has never been in the shop for more than one day at a time. Based on my first experience with VW service I wouldn't dream of trading it in on a Phaeton. I'm probably going to be replacing the Mercedes in a year or so, but VW can be sure it won't be for a Phaeton. 
Heck, even my Ford Exploder, which the Touareg replaces, hasn't been in the shop for more than 1 day at a time.


----------



## Bullit (Aug 14, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff) Webby*

Service nightmare ??? An electronic glitch within the first couple of days doesn't equate to a nightmare. I see this as a positive experience - your dealer went out of his way and pulled a part from an unsold car ! And Webby, how many brands would give you a new vehicle for a "front end noise". I've driven Lexuses for 11 years - 6 vehicles between my wife and I. Local dealer sent her out in her LX470 (quite a bit more $$$ than the Touareg) with no brake fluid after the 30K service. My '99 GS400 was it the shop 3 times over the drive by wire accelerator. Got the fix on the 3rd try. Seemed the much adored Lexus organization had a misprint in the service manual that had them replacing the wrong part. This was a situation that caused the car to DIE in traffic, once when my son tried to pull across a 4 lane intersection. However, the dealer fired the technician who worked on our LX470 (seem we weren't the only ones) and yes they provided loaners. The LX470 was a fine vehicle and would probably bought another one if I weren't close to being an empty nester. I wanted something smaller/sportier and a V8 Touareg fit the bill. Not wanting to flame, but a new foreign vehicle having glitches and parts availability problems ? Even the Lexuses and Mercedes of the world are not immune. 3 months after we got our LX470 my wife was rear ended at a stop sign (< 15mph) and it took 8 weeks for replacement body parts.


_Modified by Bullit at 10:12 AM 12-11-2003_


----------



## j2nh (Oct 15, 2003)

*Re: Glass is half full. (darylhuff)*

I was given the same response by by SA when my Touareg was having airbag fault code problems. Emails were not being responded to in a timely manner. He did not say it outright but made it apparent to me that the bottleneck was the system. Interestingly enough Mercedes uses a similar system for their vehicles. Once codes are obtained by the tech. Calls are made for repair advice or authorization. The appropriate parts are then sent. My former Mercedes dealer was getting parts delveries from the mothership twice daily. As far as VW being better or worse that others, my personal experience has been that localy my dealer (VW) is light years ahead of my former Mercedes dealer in tyring to service there customers. I also think the larger picture is that the industy as a whole lacks credibility. Customer service is lip service. Fine if nothing goes wrong but in the event of a failure no one, dealers or manufactures, assumes responsibility. The absolute worst car I ever owned was a 2000 Mercedes Benz ML 430. The best, a tie between my Porsche 996 and my new Touareg.
At some point a manufacturer is going to step up and put some meat into there customer service program. Start with training from the front of the salesroom to the parts and service departments. REQUIRE that there dealers offer acceptable loaners to customers whose cars can't be repaired in a timely manner (over 24 hours). Introduce products that have finished Beta testing.
It's good dream.
j2nh
04 V8 Touareg with all the stuff
01 996
04 WRX


----------



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff) Webby (Bullit)*

You've got pretty low expectations from a new car. I wouldn't expect a Hyundai to fail on the first day and spend 4 days to fix much less a VW. I'm sure the dealers love to sell you a car, or fix your car with such a laissez-faire attitude. Sorry, I expect more for a car that cost anything above $10,000.


----------



## royeus (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

Yes, I realize cars are complex machines and yes cars do break down....however, the impression VWOA has given its Touareg owners is that they are essentially at the mercy of the local dealer...just try one day to call VW at 1-800-822-8987 and the standard answer is "There are no Touareg specialists to assist you right now, but leave us your name and number and they will call you back within 48 hours." From that point on, good luck








If your local dealer sucks then you're sh*t out of luck indeed.
You know what....for $50K, that's some service policy we get.
Roy


----------



## jditom (Aug 7, 2002)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

It has been commented on before that VW dealers are not ready for this type of high end complicated SUV. If possible I would take it to a VW dealer that also services Audi's! Those mechanics are use to complicated regs and do a better job (IMHO).
I have a local VW dealer in town that sucks and a VW/AUDI dealer 100 miles away which is (thank god) near our vacation home. And there is a wrold of difference between the two dealers.
Good Luck
Soory


----------



## T-Rageous (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

Mine died after two months of ownership due to a drained battery. They replaced the audio amplifier and the comfort control module. The car was in the shop for 11 days, much of it due to parts availability. After some polite pressure, the parts seemed to arrive much quicker (I was told they expressed them in from Germany)--6-8 weeks sounds extreme given my experience.
I, too, was told about the new process for diagnosing problems (and, that VWofA had to first approve all repairs). The idea behind it is to create a database so that fixing problems because quicker (hopefully) and easier for the technician. I suppose this makes sense, but sorry to hear that it's a delay for you.
Hang in there!


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (royeus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *royeus* »_Yes, I realize cars are complex machines and yes cars do break down....however, the impression VWOA has given its Touareg owners is that they are essentially at the mercy of the local dealer...just try one day to call VW at 1-800-822-8987 and the standard answer is "There are no Touareg specialists to assist you right now, but leave us your name and number and they will call you back within 48 hours." From that point on, good luck








If your local dealer sucks then you're sh*t out of luck indeed.
You know what....for $50K, that's some service policy we get.
Roy

That is precisely the point that many people have made. The auto may be well engineered but, like all things, it is subject to some degree of failure.
VW, VWOA and many of its dealers are simply not organized for luxury buyers. Their traditional market has been 18-28 year olds who, many of them, like to tinker with their automobiles. 
The market for luxury cars requires an entirely different attitude. While a 22 year old may be comfortable with a "call back in 48 hours" attitude, the 38 year old who has spent 2X or 3X as much will simply not tolerate all of the (dare I say it) stupid glitches. For example: leaving parts behind (flashlight); not providing a comprehensive owner's manual, not treating a luxury owner differently, etc. Why, VW cannot even tell its owners what the crankcase capacity - that is a holdover from the 18-28 mentality that VW & VWOA must abandon if it is to sell upscale cars.
So far, VW & VWOA from the evidence of this Forum has a very long way to go. It's reputation, to judge from other external sources and competitive data bear this out. (Please do not lecture me on how Japanese autos have no sould, etc.) 
I am past the point of wanting to leave rubber on the street. I want a good, very versitile automobile that is reliable and when something breaks, it can be rapidly and reliably repaired. VW & VWOA have almost no clue about how to treat a luxury owner. Luxury owners want SERVICE, something VW & VWOA are not, to the present organized to provide. VW & VWOA think they provide a transportable iron product. In truth, they are trying to provide something that they thinks competes vs. Lexus, MB, etc. Compared to Lexus, VW & VWOA have years to go. 
As they say, the proof is in the pudding. Look at the VW and Lexus ratings in Consumers Reports. VW ratings are miserable and, even in Germany, VW ratings were next to last in a recent survey.
Of course Lexus has had problems. The point is, Lexus is RESPONSIVE. the VWOA attitude of "..get back to you in 48 hours..." is, in a word, unproductive: of customer goodwill, of repeat buyers, of profits. This attitude shows in the ratings and in the scandals (ignition coil only the latest example).
In a phrase: VW GROW UP! FIGURE OUT WHAT YOUR CUSTOMERS WANT!
If not, you'll go the way of the Nash Rambler


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (T-Rageous)*


_Quote, originally posted by *T-Rageous* »_Mine died after two months of ownership due to a drained battery. They replaced the audio amplifier and the comfort control module. The car was in the shop for 11 days, much of it due to parts availability. After some polite pressure, the parts seemed to arrive much quicker (I was told they expressed them in from Germany)--6-8 weeks sounds extreme given my experience.


Maybe you should go here and inform yourself:
http://www.yourlemonlawrights....a.htm


----------



## insguy (Nov 22, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (T-Rageous)*

Hmmm...the e-mail bottleneck would seem to explain the service delay I experienced last week (see "Transmission Trouble"). Took them two days to diagnose a couple of broken wires in the wiring harness. The good news is that no new parts were required and they fixed it right after they diagnosed it.
The dealership called this morning for the obligatory satisfaction survey. I was nice, but told them it shouldn't take two days to get around to diagnosing the problem. Like others in this thread, I've never had to wait until the next day for a diagnosis before, and only once did I have to leave the vehicle for more than a day. Don't get me started on the crappy rental I was provided...


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (insguy)*


_Quote, originally posted by *insguy* »_
The dealership called this morning for the obligatory satisfaction survey. I was nice, but told them it shouldn't take two days to get around to diagnosing the problem. Like others in this thread, I've never had to wait until the next day for a diagnosis before, and only once did I have to leave the vehicle for more than a day. Don't get me started on the crappy rental I was provided...

More evidence of the 18-28 year old mentality.... 
VW & VWOA need to understand its customer far better. Attempting to move upmarket brings new expectations and responsibilities which, unfortunately VW & VWOA do not know or understand.
Perhaps VW & VWOA Could send a dozen of its personnel to Lexus or Honda marketing school. It is so painfully obvious that they are floundering in the marketing and customer service areas.


----------



## T-Rageous (Aug 16, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trexer001* »_
Maybe you should go here and inform yourself:
http://www.yourlemonlawrights....a.htm

Trust me, I already looked into it


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*


_Quote, originally posted by *darylhuff* »_While I was talking with the shop manager he told me that VWOA has a new service procedure for the Touaregs. Instead of using the tried and true method of training mechanics on the new car, distributing full manuals with instructions, and letting the trained mechanic decide what needs to be done they’re trying something new. The mechanic reads the error code from the computer and emails the code to some centralized location where they look over the error code and send back instructions on what to do – what to adjust, replace, tweak, hit with a hammer, … Given the volume of problems they are seeing, this centralized diagnosis model has become a bottleneck and is ensuring that what used to take a day to fix will take two or even three for a Touareg.

This is incorrect information actually...
Service techs still go to training on a specific model and still receive documentation when necessary or needed. The new diagnostic system with messaging is used to record all issues with Touaregs and Phaetons (at this point) by VIN number and dumps them into a central worldwide database where VW can track problems in real time now and sort them regionally and by VIN very quickly. The messaging system is used in cases where an unknown code or problem comes up. Occasionally the system can get backed up with requests, but we're talking about getting answers usually within minutes, NOT days.
New vehicles have become EXTREMELY complex and utilize a number of computer systems all operating on a local area network (the Touareg has more than 40 control modules). Rather than rely on mechanics to be both computer geeks and traditional mechanics, Volkswagen has regional tech centers staffed by experts that deal with the diagnostics so that the mechanics out in the field can fix cars and not worry about all the computer stuff.
These changes don't always come easy and dealers had to purchase about $40,000k worth of diagnostic equipment and more - some are happy about it, some aren't.


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (vwvortex1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwvortex1* »_
This is incorrect information actually...
Service techs still go to training on a specific model and still receive documentation when necessary or needed. The new diagnostic system with messaging is used to record all issues with Touaregs and Phaetons (at this point) by VIN number and dumps them into a central worldwide database where VW can track problems in real time now and sort them regionally and by VIN very quickly. The messaging system is used in cases where an unknown code or problem comes up. Occasionally the system can get backed up with requests, but we're talking about getting answers usually within minutes, NOT days.

Please don't take this personally Jamie, but the bit about an answer taking minutes, not days is a bunch of bovine scatology... Responses from vwhub.com take waaaaay more than a day. I've witnessed this first hand. The response for my issue took 3 days. And during this time your car just sits there... While the theory of the system is great, it's still very inefficient...
meat


----------



## j2nh (Oct 15, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*

No offense but I disagree with the statement that VW does not understand its customers. I think they do and that is why the Touareg will be such a success. Experiences are relative to dealers. I had a look down the nose, don't give a damn, MARECECES (I hated the way they pronounced it) dealer who stated in every other sentence "customer service" and when the vehicle failed (3 trannys and countless other majors) ignored me. I now have a VW dealer that is bending over backwards trying to make the several small things that have gone wrong on my Touareg right.
My VW dealer offers loaners.
My Mercedes dealer did not, of any kind.
My VW dealer delivered my Touareg 100 miles after fixing the wiring harness on the trailer hitch.
My Mercedes dealer made me come pick my vehicle up after a tranny failure.
BMW X5 is the most recalled vehicle in history.
Mercedes/Dodge has dropped off the chart in terms of JD Powers Customer Satisfaction.
VW's mistake is the same mistake that every other major manufacturer makes. No standard accross the board policies for all dealers. 
Loaners. No more guessing.
Repair time with a penalty ($) for failing to return the vehicle.
Penalty ($) for repeat failures of the same defect.
Like I said, it's nice to dream.


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (vwvortex1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwvortex1* »_
Occasionally the system can get backed up with requests, but we're talking about getting answers usually within minutes, NOT days.


One of the problems that several people have encountered is that, after paying $35-50K, they seem to habe been left high and dry in the event of an emergency. "Please leave you name and number and someone from VWOA will revert to you within 48 hours." In an age with Onstar, this kind of response to luxury car owners is quite simply unacceptable. Also, the service attitudes of different dealers is (ahem) vastly different, with some (few?) very good and some really poor stinkers.
VWOA would do everyone a service if it published its standards of customer response so that everyone would understand and be able to calibrate expectations. VWOA would do everyone a favor and publish quality control data on different dealers and frankly weed out the rotten ones.
Of course the car is complex, of course there are elaborate control systems. So what? Welcome to the 21st Century. Why are Lexus, Infiniti and others repeatedly perceived as setting the industry standard for service and customer care with cars of equal complexity and VW is (shall we say) much farther back in the pack?
The point is simple: VW wants to play in a new arena; the arena is luxury; in that arena, the expectations are naturally higher because the other players have set that standard and customers have paid for the service. For VWOA, the required response is simple: either meet the competition or get pushed out. 
In addition, it is more difficult for VWOA because while Lexus has a richly deserved reputation for providing unparalleled service, VWOA's reputation is frankly, because of events too numerous to describe, poor. A cursory reading of the Consumer Reports annual automobile issue clearly elucidates this. 
For VWOA to make a name in the arena of luxury, it needs to do what Lexus did: be clearly better than the competition, set the standard and make the next leap in customer service. Pushing customers into voice mail with a promised response in 48 hours is silly!
Questions: How many have read the CR auto reports and compared Lexus vs. VW? Show of hands, how many think VWOA is better at customer service than Lexus?????


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (vwvortex1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwvortex1* »_
The new diagnostic system with messaging is used to record all issues with Touaregs and Phaetons (at this point) by VIN number and dumps them into a central worldwide database where VW can track problems in real time now and sort them regionally and by VIN very quickly. 


With all this sophisticated high tech equipment, VWOA still cannot communicate clearly to its owners what the crankcase capacity is in its owners manual. The hidden quirks of the automobile form a major segment of this forum. Nor is VWOA able to inform its owners when or if they will get a swao for the middle rear seat head restraint. As an example, go here:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1148266
This is just simple execution stuff, not high tech; it involves doing things that people have a right to expect BECAUSE they bought a luxury car. All the high tech equipment and all the systems in the world will not work until VWOA does one thing: PUTS ITSELF IN THE POSITION OF THE OWNER!
VWOA needs to stop thinking like a provider of high tech pieces of iron and start thinking like a luxury car owner. Owners want clear and definite answers, not endless nonsense, getback to you in 48 hours messages and rumors dessiminated on these forums.
If VWOA had any customer concern, it would have someone who was knowledgible scanning these forums to determine what owners were seeking, determine the answer and then get the word out quickly and clearly. As it is, VWOA with its, "We'll get back to you in 48 hours attitude." keeps digging a deeper hole.
Questions for VWOA: 
WILL the center rear seat head restraints be swapped? 
Is there a clear and definite policy. What is it?
Will VWOA publish it? 
When will the program go forward? 
Are there rollout schedules?
None of this required high tech diagnostics; it requires something who can think like an owner. 
Hello!!! Anyone at VWOA capable of that??????????
VWOA needs to stop thinking it is dealing with 89 Jetta owners and start thinking it is dealing with owners that expect a Lexus experience, not an 89 Jetta experience.
Hello, VWOA, either get your act together or get pushed out of the market.


----------



## jctreg (Dec 4, 2003)

Well, I've got to agree with all the posts here that voice concerns about the level of service at VW dealers on this vehicle so far. If you're going to play, and even succeed, in the luxury car market, you need to be better prepared. I'm only a little frustrated at having experienced "gremlins" on our Touareg so far...I mean we knew we took a chance buying a 1st yr model...however, it's the dealer preparation & attitude when it comes to service that's a problem. 
I won't go into all the details about my specific dealer/repair issues, but it seems to me that while the people are trying, the process is simply broken. It's clear they are undermanned and lack the knowledge at this time. Repairs, or I should say attempts to diagnose & repair, are simply taking way to long. And in the process, the SAs aren't able to clearly explain to the customer what's going on, or even notify the customer in a timely manner. They also seem be very confused about the parts on order & such. 
I think it's clear that VWA is serious about making this car a success and trying to provide better service, but we'll have to see how that trickles down to dealers...really have to stay on them...


----------



## badb5 (Mar 26, 2000)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (j2nh)*

[/QUOTE]
BMW X5 is the most recalled vehicle in history.
[/QUOTE]
I don't know where you get that statistic - my 01 (late) X5 has been recalled once and one TSB in 2.5 years. I haven't had a single problem with it which suprises the heck out of me, not one warranty repair. The 00 to early 01 X5's had issues but BMW got em fixed by the second year of production. I leased mine on a leap of faith and lucked out. Now I'm deciding whether to buy it at the end of the lease or get a TDI Touareg - I have 7 months to decide.
You first year Touareg owners are beta testing the new service procedure and the vehicle for us second year people - I thank you for that.
None of these issues you guys are having would stop me from getting a Touareg, I'm sure the vast majority of Touaregs are close to problem free.


----------



## Webby (Sep 25, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff) Webby (Bullit)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Bullit* »_And Webby, how many brands would give you a new vehicle for a "front end noise".

I think you've missed the point. The dealer saw fit to take my brand new car into the workshop for THREE WEEKS for that little "front end noise". Must have been serious you might think?
And there was never any offer from the dealer or VW to give me a new car. I had to fight every freakin' inch to get the new replacement car. 
One very bitter experience.



_Modified by Webby at 9:26 AM 12-12-2003_


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (Webby)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Webby* »_
I think you've missed the point. The dealer saw fit to take my brand new car into the workshop for THREE WEEKS for that little "front end noise". Must have been serious you might think?
And there was never any offer from the dealer or VW to give me a new car. I had to fight every freakin' inch to get the new replacement car. 
One very bitter experience.
_Modified by Webby at 9:26 AM 12-12-2003_

Your feelinds are understandable. Does Australia have a "lemon law?" 
In the US, if the dealer cannot fix the problems on a car within a certain period of time, the car is considered a "lemon" and the manufacturer must buy it back.


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (jctreg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *jctreg* »_Well, I've got to agree with all the posts here that voice concerns about the level of service at VW dealers on this vehicle so far. If you're going to play, and even succeed, in the luxury car market, you need to be better prepared. 
....it seems to me that while the people are trying, the process is simply broken. ... they are undermanned... lack the knowledge at this time. Repairs, or I should say attempts to diagnose & repair, are simply taking way to long... the SAs aren't able to clearly explain to the customer what's going on, or even notify the customer in a timely manner...they also seem be very confused about the parts on order & such. 
I think it's clear that VWA is serious about making this car a success and trying to provide better service, but we'll have to see how that trickles down to dealers...really have to stay on them...


These are the symptoms of a company attempting to make a transition from selling nuts and bolts goods to selling upmarket goods. It is clear that VW & VWOA have not thought the whole process through and that VW & VWOA are still focussed on the 18-28 yr old segment where time spent at the dealer is not so important. They are undermanned and lack the knowledge because VW & VWOA have not considered the different expectations of luxury buyers.
Repairs and diagnostics take too long and not keeping the customer informed because VW & VWOA have no clue about luxury buyers demands. As far as not understanding what is going on or notifying the customer, would you fly a second time in an airplane if the cabin crew could not or would not tell you what is happening with a repair?
The problem is, again, and again expectations. 
VW & VWOA have been selling econo-boxes for so long that they and their many (most?) of their dealers have no idea of the differential expectations.
When Lexus started out, one of the prime reasons why it created a whole new brand (something almost unprecedented in the auto industry for decades) was because, after exhaustively studying the matter, Toyota concluded that luxury owners have (surprise!!!) different expectations and these could NOT be met be ordinary Toyota dealers. 
As everyone knows and as is borne out by Consumers Reports and JD Power reports, Toyota dealers provide a very high level of service (consistently ranked much higher than VW & VWOA). However, for its luxury brand, it wanted to offer an unprecedented level of service that would lead and feed into repeated buys by the consumer. In great measure, Toyota/Lexus succeeded. Lexus customers are "brand loyal" to an extraordinary degree, more so than MB, BMW, etc. Even in Germany, Lexus is perceived to be a far more satisfying automobile.
What VW & VWOA do not understand is that they are NOT selling iron. They are attempting to compete against a service juggernaut that studied the matter for years and decided to exceed the expectations of the market segment it was entering.
Sadly, VW & VWOA stll thing they are in the iron movement business. WRONG! They are in the service business. It will be very hard for Germans to understand this because, Germany has, compared to the US, only an embryonic service sector and, truth be told an arrogance that says that the customer is not always right. VW must change its thinking to comprehend changed circumstances. So far, all the evidence, at least from what has been written here, indicates that the transition has not been going well. 
It is true: Touareg customers are beta testors, especially in regard to the service organization. 
Lexus thought through the process and avoided that mentality by striking out on a new course. VW &VWOA did not and the results show all over this forum. Customers are at a loss to get even simple questions answered because, again, the mentality is one of iron moveing, not service. When an auto company does not even see fit to document simple, routine matters (crankcase capacity!), this is probably a symptom of a deeper problem. 
As good as the Touareg is, (and when it is running right - did you check your VAG - COM this morning? - it is great!) the total customer buying experience is nowhere near as good as a Lexus. Customers may buy it once but the real profit is in the repeat business; the real profit is IN THE REPUTATION THAT HAS BEEN CREATED.
Again, it is the difference between looking at a car as iron and l;ooking at it as a stream of services. VW = iron; Lexus = stream of services.
VW &VWOA need to adopt a new mentality to succeed. So far, at least as far as anyone has disclosed on this forum, the results are not promising. The car is a masterpiece to look at and drive. The service leaves much to be desired. It is the combination that constitutes the experience.


----------



## EPilot (Jul 27, 1999)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trexer001* »_
These are the symptoms of a company attempting to make a transition from selling nuts and bolts goods to selling upmarket goods. It is clear that VW & VWOA have not thought the whole process through and that VW & VWOA are still focussed on the 18-28 yr old segment where time spent at the dealer is not so important. They are undermanned and lack the knowledge because VW & VWOA have not considered the different expectations of luxury buyers.
Repairs and diagnostics take too long and not keeping the customer informed because VW & VWOA have no clue about luxury buyers demands. As far as not understanding what is going on or notifying the customer, would you fly a second time in an airplane if the cabin crew could not or would not tell you what is happening with a repair?
The problem is, again, and again expectations. 
VW & VWOA have been selling econo-boxes for so long that they and their many (most?) of their dealers have no idea of the differential expectations.


Not trying to start a war or anything but.
I agree with your problems with VW's service departments. What I don't agree with is your perception that only luxury vehicle owners deserve great service and us "Econo-box" VW owners are happy with their crappy service. I find that very very wrong and disturbing. 
*"VW & VWOA are still focussed on the 18-28 yr old segment where time spent at the dealer is not so important."* What does age have to do with treatment and time spent at a dealership getting service??? If you think that people in this age group have all the time in the world to wait for the poor service department to try and figure out what to do next to their car your sadly mistaken. 
Just because I only spent $21000 on my GTI doesn't mean I deserve treatment and service that is not as good as your service treatment. We are all in the same boat and the service should be the same across the board. It should all be excellent. 
My biggest question is if you read Consumer Reports and JD powers surveys why did you get a VW? 



_Modified by EPilot at 10:00 AM 12-12-2003_


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (EPilot)*


_Quote, originally posted by *EPilot* »_
Not trying to start a war or anything but.
I agree with your problems with VW's service departments. What I don't agree with is your perception that only luxury vehicle owners deserve great service and us "Econo-box" VW owners are happy with their crappy service. I find that very very wrong and disturbing. 
*"VW & VWOA are still focussed on the 18-28 yr old segment where time spent at the dealer is not so important."* What does age have to do with treatment and time spent at a dealership getting service??? 
Just because I only spent $21000 on my GTI doesn't mean I deserve treatment and service that is not as good as your service treatment. We are all in the same boat and the service should be the same across the board. It should all be excellent. 
_Modified by EPilot at 10:00 AM 12-12-2003_


I do not think that econo-box owners deserve poor service. I think everyone should get superb service. That said, luxury owners should get (dare I say it?) luxury service. I hope that each VW owner gets service as good as Toyota (still a long way to go for VWOA!) and that Touareg & Phaeton owners get service as good as Lexus.
It is mostly a matter of economics: people who are younger earn less; their earnings per hour are lower. Consequently, time to a guy who earns $200/hour is more valuable than time to a guy who earns $20/hour. (You may disagree but that really is the case.) Consequently, people who can afford Phaeton/Touareg (who are generally older) have different expectations (“My time is too valuable to waste on nonsense like e.g., not knowing how to {fill in the many [hundreds of?] blanks} that were not discussed in the owners manual.”}.
Saying, “I only spent $21000 on my GTI doesn't mean I deserve treatment and service that is not as good as your service treatment. We are all in the same boat and the service should be the same across the board. It should all be excellent.” is unrealistic. Luxury owners have paid more and they DEMAND more. Yes, everyone’s service should be excellent but luxury owners service should be luxurious.
The point I was trying to make (rather longwindedly, I would say) is that VW & VWOA need to provide a higher level of service to meet the expectations of customers who demand, from a competitive standpoint, that level of service. So far, from the looks of things on this forum, there is a (large?) segment of VW Touareg owners who are decidedly not happy with the service and VW & VWOA do not seem to be able to respond appropriately. As an example, I came across a man today who has had to resort to using a German Touareg forum because VWOA continually blew off his questions. 
How’s your German?


----------



## royeus (Jul 10, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*

I do, in fact, suspect that had I put my Touareg into a container, shipped it to Berlin and had it repaired there, it more than likely would have been quicker and more thoroughly done than at my local dealer.
Go figure.
Roy


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (royeus)*


_Quote, originally posted by *royeus* »_I do, in fact, suspect that had I put my Touareg into a container, shipped it to Berlin and had it repaired there, it more than likely would have been quicker and more thoroughly done than at my local dealer.
Go figure.
Roy

I looked at the dealer at which you had your car serviced and was appalled. It was, simply put, a dump. 
How VW & VWOA could allow that dealer to be a Phaeton dealer is beyond my wildest imaginings. The appearance was awful; the salesman was (to be charitable) inept and when I asked for an extended test drive, I was refused. Hello, I am going to purchase a $50K piece of machinery after a 9 minute test drive? I don’t think so.
What VW & VWOA should be doing is weeding out weak and sickly dealers, not propping them up with the newest and most expensive models. That sends exactly the WRONG message to the buying public: come to our dump to buy your luxury car. 
No thank you.


----------



## EPilot (Jul 27, 1999)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*


_Quote »_It is mostly a matter of economics: people who are younger earn less; their earnings per hour are lower. Consequently, time to a guy who earns $200/hour is more valuable than time to a guy who earns $20/hour. (You may disagree but that really is the case.) Consequently, people who can afford Phaeton/Touareg (who are generally older) have different expectations (“My time is too valuable to waste on nonsense like e.g., not knowing how to {fill in the many [hundreds of?] blanks} that were not discussed in the owners manual.”}.
 I think your missing the point and are stereotyping a demographic that has changed greatly since you got your economics facts. 
So if the youth has all the time in the world to spend waiting at the dealership to get their car fixed at some point are you going to suggest that the T-reg and Phaeton owners should get their cars fixed before the "econo box" vw's do? The facts are that nobody older, younger, rich, poor should have to deal with poor service and long periods of service delays. 

_Quote »_Saying, “I only spent $21000 on my GTI doesn't mean I deserve treatment and service that is not as good as your service treatment. We are all in the same boat and the service should be the same across the board. It should all be excellent.” is unrealistic. Luxury owners have paid more and they DEMAND more. Yes, everyone’s service should be excellent but luxury owners service should be luxurious.

 As for this just because I spent $21000 on my VW doesn't mean I shouldn't have luxurious service. $21000 rich or poor is money that has been well earned. And Because a Halo class VW owner spent 2 times or more than that should not have and reflection on treatment to the customer. At some point that "Econo box" VW customer will want to buy a more upscale car because they have to when they get old or married and they are not going buy a Halo class VW because of the personal service treatment they get from the service department. They need to make the personal treatment and service upgrade across the board. 
VW is not in the "Econo box" market and hasn't been since they sold the VW Fox in the 90's. All of their vehicles are out there to sell against BMW, Mercedes and Audi. And they last time I checked they are not "Econo boxes".


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trexer001* »_
I looked at the dealer at which you had your car serviced and was appalled. It was, simply put, a dump. 
How VW & VWOA could allow that dealer to be a Phaeton dealer is beyond my wildest imaginings. The appearance was awful; the salesman was (to be charitable) inept and when I asked for an extended test drive, I was refused. Hello, I am going to purchase a $50K piece of machinery after a 9 minute test drive? I don’t think so.
What VW & VWOA should be doing is weeding out weak and sickly dealers, not propping them up with the newest and most expensive models. That sends exactly the WRONG message to the buying public: come to our dump to buy your luxury car. 
No thank you.


Oh it is quite simple actually - thanks to the laws in every state, Dealer Franchises have huge protection from the Manufacturer that tries to tell them what to do. In fact some dealer franchise laws stipulate that a manufacturer *has* to give their dealers every model they sell - VW can play a game with this by only giving that dealer one or two, but they still have to do it.
Things are VERY different here in the U.S. vs. Germany where they can tell the dealers what to do and how high to jump. Here a dealer could tell them to go to hell and file a class action lawsuit against them with other dealers. VWoA is very frustrated with some of the current VW dealers - only about 2/3's of them were willing to make the commitment to better dealerships, new brand standards, changing the way they do business, etc.
My personal feeling is that VW should be adding dealership right now since they have a waiting list of people that want them - a waiting list that includes people that have owned other luxury brands and understand how to treat customers correctly. For some reason they haven't done this yet and continue to try and get all their current dealers on board.. it may be time to cut them loose and let them die on the vine.
Audi had a situation a few years back where they had a dealer with horrible CSI ratings and was nothing but a problem. Audi pulled the franchise, the dealer sued and won 13 million dollars -so it cost Audi 13 million to get rid of one bad dealer. It is no wonder the Germans are frustrated with stuff over here.
-jamie


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (vwvortex1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwvortex1* »_
Oh it is quite simple actually - thanks to the laws in every state, Dealer Franchises have huge protection from the Manufacturer that tries to tell them what to do. In fact some dealer franchise laws stipulate that a manufacturer *has* to give their dealers every model they sell - VW can play a game with this by only giving that dealer one or two, but they still have to do it.
VWoA is very frustrated with some of the current VW dealers - only about 2/3's of them were willing to make the commitment to better dealerships, new brand standards, changing the way they do business, etc.
For some reason they haven't done this yet and continue to try and get all their current dealers on board.. it may be time to cut them loose and let them die on the vine.
Audi had a situation a few years back where they had a dealer with horrible CSI ratings and was nothing but a problem. Audi pulled the franchise, the dealer sued and won 13 million dollars -so it cost Audi 13 million to get rid of one bad dealer. It is no wonder the Germans are frustrated with stuff over here.
-jamie

Jamie, with all due respect, all of this argues for an entirely different approach from that which VW took. Yes, the franchise laws are tough. It argues for setting up a new brand with selective dealers where VW (or whatever you want to call it - "NEWVW") get the cream of the crop. It argues for getting the dealers to open up new "exclusive" NEWVW dealerships like Lexus did. That way, you do not pollute your luxury strategy with dump dealers.
Instead, I suspect that VW looked at the situation and decided that it would cost too much or could not attract enough NEWVW prospective dealers into such a brand.
The result is the same: a diffused image with frankly unacceptable dealers who offer shoddy surroundings and service. That is clearly not the image VW wants but that, in many cases is what it got.
If VW wants to do its Touareg owners a service, it should 
1. beef up its VWOA hotlines and 
2. publish the results of surveys (CSI Ratings) indicating which are its best dealers. 
Surely, VW can add more people to its 1-800 lines so that the nonsense of waiting up to 48 hours does not take place. In addition, VWOA should publish a set of service standards and work with its dealers to meet them. Getting dealers publicly to commit to certain standards would segment the market into responsive and less responsive dealers.
Also, VW has the data on "who was naughty and who was nice." PUBLISH THE DATA! There is no need to say, "Joe Blow VW on East 10th Street is a rotten, miseable dealer." What VWOA should be doing is REWARDING its good dealers by publicly naming them. "VW's best dealers in New England are: 1,2,3,4,5. Publish a list on a quarterly basis with the top service dealers in each zone, on the basis of customer satisfaction. That will strengthen them by moving more sales and service business to them. Over time, the poor ones will rot on the vine.
The Touareg is a great car but the way that VWOA has been "servicing" its owners has left a lot to be desired. Most of that could have been allevuated if VW had gone the Lexus route. Too bad. Now it has to figure out other ways to accomplish the same end. 
SET PUBLIC STANDARDS.
PUBLISH THE NAMES OF THE BEST DEALERS! 
The word will get out; the best will get better and so will VW & VWOA.
Will VWOA consider that? Your response please?


----------



## [email protected] (Feb 16, 1999)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (trexer001)*


_Quote, originally posted by *trexer001* »_
Jamie, with all due respect, all of this argues for an entirely different approach from that which VW took. Yes, the franchise laws are tough. It argues for setting up a new brand with selective dealers where VW (or whatever you want to call it - "NEWVW") get the cream of the crop. It argues for getting the dealers to open up new "exclusive" NEWVW dealerships like Lexus did. That way, you do not pollute your luxury strategy with dump dealers.
Instead, I suspect that VW looked at the situation and decided that it would cost too much or could not attract enough NEWVW prospective dealers into such a brand.
The result is the same: a diffused image with frankly unacceptable dealers who offer shoddy surroundings and service. That is clearly not the image VW wants but that, in many cases is what it got.
If VW wants to do its Touareg owners a service, it should 
1. beef up its VWOA hotlines and 
2. publish the results of surveys (CSI Ratings) indicating which are its best dealers. 
Surely, VW can add more people to its 1-800 lines so that the nonsense of waiting up to 48 hours does not take place. In addition, VWOA should publish a set of service standards and work with its dealers to meet them. Getting dealers publicly to commit to certain standards would segment the market into responsive and less responsive dealers.
Also, VW has the data on "who was naughty and who was nice." PUBLISH THE DATA! There is no need to say, "Joe Blow VW on East 10th Street is a rotten, miseable dealer." What VWOA should be doing is REWARDING its good dealers by publicly naming them. "VW's best dealers in New England are: 1,2,3,4,5. Publish a list on a quarterly basis with the top service dealers in each zone, on the basis of customer satisfaction. That will strengthen them by moving more sales and service business to them. Over time, the poor ones will rot on the vine.
The Touareg is a great car but the way that VWOA has been "servicing" its owners has left a lot to be desired. Most of that could have been allevuated if VW had gone the Lexus route. Too bad. Now it has to figure out other ways to accomplish the same end. 
SET PUBLIC STANDARDS.
PUBLISH THE NAMES OF THE BEST DEALERS! 
The word will get out; the best will get better and so will VW & VWOA.
Will VWOA consider that? Your response please? 

Since dealers are an extension of the company and VW *needs* their support overall (and the fact that they stick up for one another) my guess is no, they are not going to anything of the sort. Not to mention the fact that publicly publishing which dealers are "good" dealers and which are "bad" will cost those dealers money in lost revenue which in turn will likely have them suing Volkswagen.
Trust me when I say that the dealer situation is fraught with HUGE politics. VW's best plan would have been to temporarily pull out of the U.S. market and come back in and start from scratch - obviously that isn't an option right now. VWoA also can't just start plunking down new dealers whereever they like either as it will infringe upon existing territories and franchise agreements that are in place.
This whole thing is a real mess and will take a bit of time to turn around.


----------



## sciencegeek (Oct 26, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (vwvortex1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwvortex1* »_This whole thing is a real mess and will take a bit of time to turn around.

Do you know what VW is doing specifically to turn things around?


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (vwvortex1)*


_Quote, originally posted by *vwvortex1* »_
Not to mention the fact that publicly publishing which dealers are "good" dealers and which are "bad" will cost those dealers money in lost revenue which in turn will likely have them suing Volkswagen.
Trust me when I say that the dealer situation is fraught with HUGE politics. 
This whole thing is a real mess and will take a bit of time to turn around.

Of course it is fraught with politics. However, I specifically EXCLUDED publishing the names of the rotten ones. That, of course would open VWOA to all sorts of lawsuits. However, publishing the TOP 5 on the internet - such as this Forum - would be great way to steer your Touareg owners to the really good dealers where they could obtain better service. Please read my post up above.
Also, if you look at one of the recent postings, you see that several owners are frustrated by an inability to contact anyone at VWOA about (shall we call them) special problems. I know that the AAA program is meant to alleviate some of this but would you want your Touareg dragged onto a flatbed if it could not be put into neutral? 
The point is that there are circumstances when emergencies happen and a luxury owner should not feel left high and dry with a, "Please leave a message and someone will revert to you within 48 hours" because the local tow company does not know how to "deposit" the car on a flatbed properly. {BTW, there are numerous postings on this forum where people were NOT contacted for weeks or months!}
In sum, VWOA needs to think about providing better service. Beefing up the 1-800 service is a cheap (relatively) way to provide service, esp. in emergencies.
The idea of publishing "The Best of VW's Dealers" would be a way to segment the VW Best of the Best vs. the Rest. Not only that, it might set up a competition among the Rest to improve their service. Consumers will choose better service IF given the facts. Give them the facts: Publish a list of who are your best dealers. It will give the others a target to strive for, it will provide information to consumers and it will "steer" your customers to the better dealers for service.


----------



## kullenberg (Aug 23, 2002)

We can do some of that ourselves - if you've gotten good service, let us know about it; better yet someone start a "sticky" thread about good service.


----------



## trexer001 (Dec 8, 2003)

*Re: (kullenberg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kullenberg* »_We can do some of that ourselves - if you've gotten good service, let us know about it; better yet someone start a "sticky" thread about good service.

How do you do a "sticky" thread?


----------



## kullenberg (Aug 23, 2002)

*Re: (trexer001)*

The moderator can do it. The threads at the very beginning of the forum are "sticky" threads. They don't go away!


----------



## ranebravw (May 31, 2004)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (darylhuff)*

Same here, I have had my V6 Touareg for 6 month and been in the shop 7-8 times and every time it takes 3-5 days to get the car back. This is disappointing for a $40K luxury car. I whish we could do something or get 20-30 % money back for all the trouble. Does any one know if we could get some support from any government agency, better business bureau or any one else????
rn


----------



## SlotCAR (Nov 28, 2003)

*Re: (kullenberg)*


_Quote, originally posted by *kullenberg* »_We can do some of that ourselves - if you've gotten good service, let us know about it; better yet someone start a "sticky" thread about good service.


http://1.8t.org/dealers/


----------



## meatster (Mar 9, 2003)

*Re: (SlotCAR)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SlotCAR* »_

http://1.8t.org/dealers/ 

While the concept of 1.8t.org is great, people have to take the info available there with a grain (or two) of salt. In fact I'd go so far as to say the info you get there is practically useless. For example, take a look at the comments for Bell Audi in NJ: http://1.8t.org/dealers/?m=v&d=38. I know it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the something fishy happened on December 17, 2003 but what percentage of people using the site are going to scrutinize the date/time stamps of the posts?? Anyone moving to NJ and looking up Bell Audi might consider them to use for servicing their Audi if they didn't pay attention to the dates and times of the posts. Upon careful inspection they MIGHT realize that they are quite possibly the worse Audi dealer in America. How would they get this information if the dealer had half a brain to spread out their positive posts??
Meat


----------



## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (meatster)*

Try this - it's not sticky, but...
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1175928


----------



## SERVICEMANGLER (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: (4x4s)*

I would question the dealer service manager or general manager if there are problems that don't seem to get resolved in a reasonable manor. When the Touareg was initially rolled out it was mandatory for me to use the internet reporting on the "Hotline Channel" before I could submit a warranty claim. If there was a response needed from a VW engineer it could take as long as 3 days(worst case scenario) or within a few mins. That only lasted for the 1st few months to gather all information of failures, and it led to allmost immediate production changes quicker than I have ever witnessed in allmost 30 years in the parts and service business. I have worked with Toyota, Buick, Lexus, BMW, Porsche, Audi, Saab and VW.
I no longer have to use the Hotline Channel, and when I have a problem I can't fix I have my techs call the help line, or my tech rep.
I have sent 3 of my techs to a week long school specifically for the Touareg, as well as all the in house training that VW provides on MAX, the internet and self study books that all of my techs do - because they want to know more, and I require it!
Yes we need more training - but it is not just a wilderness of stupid mechanics working on a vehicle that they don't know about. I would ask each dealer if they actually have trained techs, or are they trying to work with trainees.
Our service needs to get better - especially for the upscale customer that VW is now selling to. We are not Lexus, but we are trying to do better.


----------



## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: (SERVICEMANGLER)*

Probably what is most annoying and most detrimental to all dealers is the variability across dealers. It sounds like you are running your biz right, servicemangler. And I am fortunate to have an excellent dealer and service department. But it's obvious from posts here that there are too many service managers that either do not take the initiative that you do, or are for some reason unsuccessful.
All dealerships are not cast from the same mold. Until VWOA does something to mandate a minimal level of training, and takes a more active role in ensuring that ALL dealers get their service departments up to snuff, then all that we consumers can do is vote with our wallets. We need to share good experiences and bad, so others can choose dealers that do take the effort to do things right, and avoid those that do not.


----------



## SERVICEMANGLER (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: (4x4s)*

Agreed! I do try - but we still get people mad, we do screw up, and so does VW, but all in all I really feel most people want to do a good job, and want to fix customers vehicles.
VW does have a minimum certification program - that every tech must have at least 1 instructor led school and several other credits vis MAX, self study or assessment tests to be certified. Currently 1/2 of my techs are allready certified for 2005, and I want all of them to be certified - they have 7 months to complete their annual training.


----------



## stephenkyu (Aug 18, 2003)

In my limited experience with VW dealers in my area, they range from acceptable to disappointing. The salesman still have that pushy attitude and the service areas are still relatively poor. I have seen dealers that don't even have coffee! Most luxury dealerships have soda, snacks, coffee, and espresso...


----------



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: (SERVICEMANGLER)*


_Quote, originally posted by *SERVICEMANGLER* »_
Our service needs to get better - especially for the upscale customer that VW is now selling to. We are not Lexus, but we are trying to do better.

How true! Funny you should bring up Lexus. My wife and I were out shopping for an SUV to replace the Touareg we're about to dispose of (more on that in a couple of hours), so we went by our local Lexus dealer. I thought I'd died and gone to auto repair heaven. 
It was after hours but they wanted to show us the repair facility. 100 bays spotlessly clean. Italian tile on the floor of the garage. Plenty of Lexus loaner cars in the fleet on the rare occasion a Lexus needs to be in the shop (oh the times I've tooled around in a Dodge Neon for a week while VW asks permission from the mother ship to do some trivial work). They'll come to your house to replace your oil for no extra charge (no more than what I pay for the same service at my local VW dealer). If you need work done on your car they'll pick up your car at your home on a flatbed if you prefer.
The reception area looks like the lobby of a 4 star hotel -- marble on the floor and again spotlessly clean.
If you want to wait for a short service item (they actually work on the car when it comes into the shop) they have a professional espresso machine, real cubicles with phones, hardwired ethernet, wireless ethernet, and a fax machine for the custmers to use. In another area they have a plasma TV to watch and in another area they have a couple of Sony Playstation 2s.
From everything I read in publications like Consumers Report, JD Power, and the automotive press you wouldn't be seeing the inside of a Lexus repair facility very much. However, when you do you wouldn't dread the experience.
Now *that* is a car company that knows how to attract and retain a premium car buyer. I guess car company experiences are just like life -- you don't appreciate the peaks until you've been to the valley.


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: (darylhuff)*

If only they made some exciting cars.


----------



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: (spockcat)*


_Quote, originally posted by *spockcat* »_If only they made some exciting cars. 

Yep, I can't get enough of that flashing compass excitement. Or, the thrill of wondering if my car will start in the morning or if my battery was drained overnight. I love the excitement of wondering if my transmission will get me through a desolate area. The game of trying to outsmart the transmission so that you don't look like a beginner driver in stop-and-go traffic is quite entertaining for those long commutes. Ah, the titillation I feel when I come out of a store, hands full of bags and the remote actually works the first time I hit it. Taking odds on when the next time the check engine light will come on. The endless game of wondering what the name of the street was that I just passed -- *it's just a friggen line on my display.* 
I've had about all the excitement I can take.


----------



## Juaser (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (darylhuff)*

They should have specially imported marble for your floorboards in your T-reg, and mabye a nice gold plated VW badge to blow you away.
Lexus makes overpriced crap. Its Toyota, through and through. So what if they put wood on the steering wheel, they rip off German ideas and technology all the time and then brag about there ability to have it. I can't stand those Lexus commericals that say OHHH LOOK, LOOK WHAT LEXUS CAN DO. Germans have been doing all that innovation for years now.
Lexus and Acura were fabricated for the American market with people like you as the customer base in mind. Your not the type of person that gets attached to his car, you get blown away by stupid crap like REAL MARBLE FLOORS in a repair bay, and 4 STAR QUALITY in a waiting room. Its a garage, its supposed to fix cars, not pamper your ass.
So you got a bad Treg. Don't beat VW in the ground. These cars are made by people, people are not perfect, so don't expect your car to be.
Anyway, enjoy your future Lexus, enjoy your Nav with street names and your lights that turn 15 degrees to help with turning, oh and don't forget the most novel and original idea that also has never been done before, keyless start.
Much love! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## SERVICEMANGLER (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: (Juaser)*

I worked for Lexus for 3 years, and even Toyota has problems. Yes Lexus facilities are nice, the oldest ones are 14 years old, and a bunch of VW dealers are old and obsolete facilities that have old and obsolete dealers running them. VW is trying to upgrade their dealer body and facilities. We have a "Marketplace" store that is just over 2 years old - we have nice painted shop floors, coffee and cappuccino machine, and cubicles for computer work for customers and adjusters, as well as all the features that are required per VW and our dealer. Each and every customer can make their free choice on what they drive. Some of our customers are very loyal to the VW brand where others are just on board because someone told them this is the "cool" vehicle to own this year. We are able to meet some peoples expectations, and not meet others. Yes VW has their share of problems, and I would like to see higher quality, and also more reasonable customers that don't come in to see me or my staff with guns blazing and attitudes not conducive to me wanting to help that individual.


----------



## darylhuff (Dec 1, 2003)

*Re: (Juaser)*


_Quote, originally posted by *Juaser* »_They should have specially imported marble for your floorboards in your T-reg, and mabye a nice gold plated VW badge to blow you away.
Lexus makes overpriced crap. Its Toyota, through and through. So what if they put wood on the steering wheel, they rip off German ideas and technology all the time and then brag about there ability to have it. I can't stand those Lexus commericals that say OHHH LOOK, LOOK WHAT LEXUS CAN DO. Germans have been doing all that innovation for years now.
Lexus and Acura were fabricated for the American market with people like you as the customer base in mind. Your not the type of person that gets attached to his car, you get blown away by stupid crap like REAL MARBLE FLOORS in a repair bay, and 4 STAR QUALITY in a waiting room. Its a garage, its supposed to fix cars, not pamper your ass.
So you got a bad Treg. Don't beat VW in the ground. These cars are made by people, people are not perfect, so don't expect your car to be.
Anyway, enjoy your future Lexus, enjoy your Nav with street names and your lights that turn 15 degrees to help with turning, oh and don't forget the most novel and original idea that also has never been done before, keyless start.
Much love! http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif 


Seems like I touched a nerve there.







It appears VW can continue to depend on folks who will tolerate poor quality and worse service. 
The Touareg is a great design! I bought it, as did many, many others. All I'm pointing out is that there are a class of buyers out there for which quality and service are every bit as important as the design of the car. If Toyota/Lexus can "copy" the successful designs of the German cars *and* provide a superior quality car as well as a better class of service they are going to continue to attract buyers. IMO, Toyota/Lexus aren't there yet in sedans and coupes so I'll stay with my Mercedes for those classes. I respect that your trade-off may be different than mine. For me, after my experience with Volkswagen they don't have the whole package so I'm moving on. I hope this doesn't want to make you run into the next Lexus you see.


----------



## Juaser (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (darylhuff)*

It probably will!


----------



## SERVICEMANGLER (Feb 11, 2003)

*Re: (Juaser)*

oh no - I just saw this Lexi get smacked in front of me going down the freeway - I couldn't tell if it was a VW or a Porsche that smacked it around. http://****************.com/smile/emthup.gif


----------



## Juaser (Jan 24, 2004)

*Re: (SERVICEMANGLER)*

Yo Mangler, which dealership to you work at? I bought my Treg in Houston and was just wondering, you can IM me the answer if you don't want anybody to know.


----------



## linny3 (Aug 9, 2004)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (styx)*

I am having the same problem. Purchased my vehicle on 07/23/04 and it has given me problems ever since. My latest problem is an airbag fault code that I received just after checking my car out of repair. I was advised to bring my car in on 08/23/04 to check the airbag and to date, 09/2/04 they still don't know what's wrong!


----------



## spockcat (Jun 5, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (linny3)*


_Quote, originally posted by *linny3* »_I am having the same problem. Purchased my vehicle on 07/23/04 and it has given me problems ever since. My latest problem is an airbag fault code that I received just after checking my car out of repair. I was advised to bring my car in on 08/23/04 to check the airbag and to date, 09/2/04 they still don't know what's wrong!









Airbag fault is usually the wiring harness under the driver's seat. I think there is even a TSB on this. They usually just replace the harness.


----------



## 4x4s (Dec 18, 2003)

*Re: Touareg service nightmare (spockcat)*

Yeah, do a search for "airbag fault" te read all of the gory details.


----------

