# MSS September Sports Kit Special



## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

*MSS September Sports Kit Special- Expires soon!*

For the month of September, we are offering free shipping on the first 25 Sports Kits sold.
This is also coupled with a new lower price of £700 on the Sports Kit itself. Quite an offer on our
signature kit that has been so well received and delivers improved ride and track ready handling all with a touch of the S button.

The website will have the new offer up on Monday *9/2 thru 9/30.* I would be happy to answer any questions & provide feedback at [email protected] or check out our website www.msskits.com


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

*September specials...*

...and yes, Jeff has finally won his quest to get kits landed at a lower cost so the offer in detail is as follows...;

*MSS KITS SEPTEMBER SPECIAL*​ As a thank you for the continued support we have received for MSS Kits, we are making *25 *of our popular MSS Sports kit for the Audi TT MK2 (8J) to fit MagneRide equipped cars *available at a one off price of £700 *+ VAT (_non-EU orders are VAT exempt_) shipped worldwide.

That is a *saving of £143.83*, over 15% saving off the shipped price.

To place an order for your kit visit http://www.msskits.com/buy-online. 


*MSS Sports Kits*






 
*
Thank You* for the continued support from the MSS Team 

www.msskits.com


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> For the month of September, we are offering free shipping on the first 25 Sports Kits sold.
> This is also coupled with a new lower price of £700 on the Sports Kit itself. Quite an offer on our
> signature kit that has been so well received and delivers improved ride and track ready handling all with a touch of the S button.
> 
> The website will have the new offer up on Monday 9/2 thru 9/30. I would be happy to answer any questions & provide feedback at [email protected] or check out our website www.msskits.com


Order Placed!!!!!! Thanks for the great deal !!!!!!


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

Very welcome. Happy to get this kit into the hands of so many TT owners!


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

Do you have pics of the adjustable fronts? I've looked on your site and all I see are th adjustable rears and the fixed height fronts...


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

Greg_STL said:


> Do you have pics of the adjustable fronts? I've looked on your site and all I see are th adjustable rears and the fixed height fronts...


I will get one up asap.


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## CarbonRS (Jul 15, 2013)

Greg_STL said:


> Do you have pics of the adjustable fronts? I've looked on your site and all I see are th adjustable rears and the fixed height fronts...


I'm also wondering this. Currently undecided if I want the adjustable or not.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

*MSS Adjustable fronts*



Greg_STL said:


> Do you have pics of the adjustable fronts? I've looked on your site and all I see are th adjustable rears and the fixed height fronts...





CarbonRS said:


> I'm also wondering this. Currently undecided if I want the adjustable or not.


Hi Gents/All,
Allow me to give a summary of where we are with the front-adjustable kit as the enquiries for these have now stepped up.

*CURRENT STATE*
The current fixed front works well as per your feedback however I have always wanted to release an adjustable front-end kit and that is proving to be a challenge to make the kit work just as well for MSS Streets kit; MSS Sports Kit, MSS Track _Pack _kit.

*SUMMARY / UPDATE*
I had the front adjustable made which used firmer springs and were stacked arrangement however it did detract from the handling certainly on the MSS Sports kit (_introduced understeer; handling was not as 'predictable' as the current non-adjustable fixed fronts we ship_) the issue was not as pronounced for the Track _Pack_ kit...simply because the Track _Pack_ kit uses firmer springs on the rears.

So I have gone back to the drawing board with a simpler front adjustable design using a single spring - thus does not use the complicated stacked arrangement as on the rears. I will also likely keep the spring rates the same as the current non-adjustable fronts...if there is a change it will be marginal 3N/mm (_17Ibs_) +/- or less than 10%.

The re-design prototype will be with us this month and we then go through our test fit before getting the part machined for us to fit on our tester cars – Customer tester TT FWD Roadster and the JKM TT-S Roadster as both have lighter front-end and our development TT-RS Roadster as it has a heavier front-end same as the MK 3.2 V6 cars.

The results from these test fit and road testing will allow us to shape the kit before getting test kits on to our original testers who will do as per norm and give us their view to help shape the kit. 

We will then be in a position to share more details. Realistically, timescale to share what would be pre-production kit is 12-weeks away.

*UPGRADE PATH*
Jeff and I have spoken about making the upgrade path for us all more manageable – from a cost point of view and we have agreed what I know will please all. I will announce the info this month when we announce the release of our MSS Streets kit.

In short you will be able to upgrade your fronts to full adjustment when we release the front adjustable kit for a very reasonable price shipped. We will also announce upgrade path for all our kits. Jeff will certainly make sure of reminding me of that as he never misses a trick...! 

My advice is to buy a kit with fixed front as it does give you a good baseline and that is a much worthy kit to own. When an adjustable front-end becomes available, you can upgrade if you feel the need. 

In getting these kits to market, we will ensure we certainly do not detract from the MSS traits you may have experienced or have come to expect with a fixed front kit as we are shipping today.

What I will say now though is that the upgrade to a front-end will be lower cost than purchasing a fully adjustable kit from the outset - simply because with the upgrade we take in to consideration your original front kit cost.

*MSS MEMBERSHIP*
Whilst am here, I want to mention the MSS Membership scheme – see http://www.msskits.com/mss-members/ – which I will re-vamp to make it more cost-effective to buy other products we release. The current membership fees remain though some changes I want to introduce to encourage uptake will make sense when announced. 


Thought a short explanation was more appropriate hence the above. 


William


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

And I thought I was asking a simple question.... :facepalm:

I just ordered the fixed drop sports kit. I had to fight paypal to get it ordered. It kept locking up on my PC and I finally had my wife order from her Mac and I still got an error after it went through on her machine. I got the receipt e-mail from paypal so I think it went through. I'll pm you with my contact info so hopefully you can verify it actually completed the transaction.


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

Greg_STL said:


> And I thought I was asking a simple question.... :facepalm:
> 
> I just ordered the fixed drop sports kit. I had to fight paypal to get it ordered. It kept locking up on my PC and I finally had my wife order from her Mac and I still got an error after it went through on her machine. I got the receipt e-mail from paypal so I think it went through. I'll pm you with my contact info so hopefully you can verify it actually completed the transaction.


Sorry about the paypal fiasco, we have been having issues with it as of late. I promise the kit will be better than our online order page Our pricing will be the same/better ordering the upgrade kit for the adjustable front when they come online so you could email William if you want to wait for it to ship (about 12 weeks) or just install the kit & see if you want it and order later. I will see that you get taken care of either way. Thanks for the order & enjoy the kit.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks for your orders...:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Expect deliveries next week.


William


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

September Specials shipped last week should be with buyers this week. 

Thanks for the business and keep it coming, keeps our shippers busy...:thumbup:

William


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

The MSS springs arrived today. Everything looks good. Just an iPad pic for now. I'll get the DSLR out this weekend and take pics of the kit and car pre-install.


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

Greg_STL said:


> The MSS springs arrived today. Everything looks good. Just an iPad pic for now. I'll get the DSLR out this weekend and take pics of the kit and car pre-install.


Congrats and we are looking forward to your feedback!


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

TunaTT said:


> Order Placed!!!!!! Thanks for the great deal !!!!!!





[email protected] said:


> Very welcome. Happy to get this kit into the hands of so many TT owners!


Spring Kit received today as well didn't take a picture but arrived packed just as Greg_STL's. Looking to have on the Car this Friday. Thanks again.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Greg_STL said:


> The MSS springs arrived today. Everything looks good. Just an iPad pic for now. I'll get the DSLR out this weekend and take pics of the kit and car pre-install.





TunaTT said:


> Spring Kit received today as well didn't take a picture but arrived packed just as Greg_STL's. Looking to have on the Car this Friday. Thanks again.


Thank you Gents for the order and we look forward to your reviews...:thumbup:

I must say, each time I see a picture of the kit as received it does make me feel a little jealous - I suspect Jeff and the testers may all feel the same as we still have the plain boring tester kits on our cars...! 

Thanks again and let us know how you get on post install.

William


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Thank you Gents for the order and we look forward to your reviews...:thumbup:
> 
> I must say, each time I see a picture of the kit as received it does make me feel a little jealous - I suspect Jeff and the testers may all feel the same as we still have the plain boring tester kits on our cars...!
> 
> ...


Installed today but only had a short ride in traffic home so no review other than to say what a difference in the ride quality, I was toggling between sport and non sport and had to keep looking down to see if the light was on when in sport mode. I want to say the car felt better in sport mode. Will have a better idea after I get a little seat time in but so far :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TunaTT said:


> Installed today but only had a short ride in traffic home so no review other than to say what a difference in the ride quality, I was toggling between sport and non sport and had to keep looking down to see if the light was on when in sport mode. I want to say the car felt better in sport mode. Will have a better idea after I get a little seat time in but so far :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


Great stuff and I recall we had a few exchanges on email so I look forward to your feedback.

My only advice is to observe the new handling traits that may change your character every so often - I get a number of emails from customers who claim to feeling 18-years old again in the way they now drive whenever there is an open road; a corner or a roundabout...

Take car, thanks for the business and enjoy.

William


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> Great stuff and I recall we had a few exchanges on email so I look forward to your feedback.
> 
> My only advice is to observe the new handling traits that may change your character every so often - I get a number of emails from customers who claim to feeling 18-years old again in the way they now drive whenever there is an open road; a corner or a roundabout...
> 
> ...


I didn't see the "feeling 18-years old again" listed as one of the "Proven 5 Enhancements" in your literature, had I known that I would have purchased a long time ago.:laugh: I have taken note and will attempt to act my age (which is a long way from 18) when enjoying the new handling traits. Please note I did say "Attempt". Thanks again.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TunaTT said:


> I didn't see the "feeling 18-years old again" listed as one of the "Proven 5 Enhancements" in your literature, had I know that I would have purchased a long time ago.:laugh: I have taken note and will attempt to act my age (which is a long way from 18) when enjoying the new handling traits. Please note I did say "Attempt". Thanks again.


That gave me the giggles...top man and thx...:thumbup:


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

*Better Pic*

I'm a bit jealous. We have a third vehicle so that one can be in the shop but my wife's EOS is getting a rear spoiler and the adhesive needed 24hrs to cure and overlapped to the weekend. I have to wait to install until she gets her car back....

I did take a few more photos...



There are wheel center to arch measurements from before if you follow through to the flickr account.


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

[email protected] said:


> That gave me the giggles...top man and thx...:thumbup:


Glad to hear it, well I was able to get the car out for a better assessment today, you repaid the giggles!!!!!! I'm realy going to like this kit. This is how Audi should have set up the suspension on the RS. You are realy on to somthing, good luck (don't think you're going to need it) go forward with your pending other vehicle kits. I would sure like to purchase some stock in your Co. I believe you're on the way to great things.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

What is the price USD shipped?

Also how much does it cost to have these installed?


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> What is the price USD shipped?
> 
> Also how much does it cost to have these installed?


 On cost, £700 is currently $1,111.46 based on exchange rate today (fluctuates offcourse - was $1,050 at start of September).

We expect installation to be less than 4-hours however by an experienced workshop. We have an install manual to aid here which can be downloaded from our web site - see http://www.msskits.com/mss-spring-kits/ and scroll to bottom of the page or download PDF as follows...;

1) Info for Installer - useful tips guide
2) Install Guide - includes torque settings for each bolt.

Hope above is useful.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Greg_STL said:


> I'm a bit jealous. We have a third vehicle so that one can be in the shop but my wife's EOS is getting a rear spoiler and the adhesive needed 24hrs to cure and overlapped to the weekend. I have to wait to install until she gets her car back....
> 
> I did take a few more photos...
> 
> ...


 Luv that blue colour of the RSB - very nice and contrasts well.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TunaTT said:


> Glad to hear it, well I was able to get the car out for a better assessment today, you repaid the giggles!!!!!! I'm realy going to like this kit. This is how Audi should have set up the suspension on the RS. You are realy on to somthing, good luck (don't think you're going to need it) go forward with your pending other vehicle kits. I would sure like to purchase some stock in your Co. I believe you're on the way to great things.


Thanks and when we started the email Comms I recall, and understandably, you had some reservations that just a simple set of springs of MSS Sports could actually make that much of a difference on the MK2 platform. And you did comment that your 2013 TT-RS handled well in stock trim from your vantage point - which it does when viewed in isolation though all products can be improved in some way and am glad you purchased the MSS Sports Kit to have a different view of what we have done - thanks and much appreciated for the business.

The point here is that we simply fail to see the point of removing MagneRide on the Audi MK2 (8J) platform to fit aftermarket passive Coilover kit at a greater expense compared to our MSS Spring Kits when you have a first class damper in MagneRide and it simply needed to be allowed to work effectively. Our MSS KITS implementation achieves that at a great saving over a premium passive Coilover kit - KW v3 or Bilstein PSS10 in comparison.

Our failing in terms of marketing to date is that the general perception of potential customers is comparing our product to a set of low end lowering spring kits from Eibach or H&R - offcourse that is mainly to focus on the price. MSS Spring Kits is indeed a high-end springs kit though with 13 separate components shipped as opposed to just 4 for an Eibach or H&R lowering spring kit there really is a notable difference in what you pay for. Am working with our PR team to change that perception and it is no mean feat either...though I think we are making good progress with each customer we capture, as in your case 

Arriving at the correct solution was no mean feat either however the work was not done by solely me - there are many on here who contributed in a small way - JohnLW; Marty - to name but two key US personals. 

In Australia I also have a key and respected VAG guy who contributed and subsequently bought a production kit when released. He is off on a 3,000 miles journey across Australia and am looking forward to his review upon his return. He does the same journey each year and his TT-RS did not fare so well on Stock springs on his last journey last year so now with MSS Sports Kit fitted we shall see how he gets on. That would be a great review / feedback to share when received. As usual, I will share as sent – good or bad. Am keen to remain transparent with all reviews – we have nothing to hide and always receptive to learning to help improve the product.

Then our testers – Jeff; John; Lake; Craig; Cliff have all been great with their individual feedbacks. Lake, for example, has moved on to our Track _Pack _kit as his TT-S is now a dedicated track car. With MagneRide + MSS he is surprising many on track with passive Coilover kits.

We are also grateful to Eibach; BWI Group; Ohlin UK; Swift springs US; KW; - all contributed one way offering advice along the 2-year development cycle.

Always happy to keep mentioning all of the above as am grateful to them and humbled by their unwavering support as is also the case with people here at Fourtitude forums...thanks to all for supporting the product.

Sure, am animated whenever I talk about MSS Spring Kits – some may say I am passionate – however, I do want people to be aware that there is an option beyond a set of lowering springs or passive Coilover kits for the Audi MK2 TT platform... our MSS Spring Kits is a credible option.

On a separate note, I am about to start a thread on MSS Streets kit aimed at those without MagneRide on their MK2 TT cars having spent yesterday – Saturday 14[SUP]th[/SUP] Sept – in our customers car fitted with MSS Streets kit. Some surprises I really want to share in a moment. 

Anyway I digress though you have given me an ideal opportunity to get the message across to other MK2 TT owner that MSS Spring Kits is an option they may care to also consider alongside lowering springs or passive Coilover kits.

Shares in MSS KITS, now that is a thought though we need to be here in a few Years time for the venture to be worth more than a dollar I suspect...we just need more support from the good people here with a purchase of one of our kits to suit thus...
- MSS Streets for non-MagneRide MK2 TT cars (_release notes will be this month)_
_- _MSS Sports – a versatile kit for daily driving and capable on track comparable to KW v3 or Bilstein PSS10 passive Coilover kits.
- MSS Track _Pack_ – for the dedicated track car which is also moderately used on streets. Sure, the ride is firm therefore a focussed track kit.

Thanks again for the purchase and the summary feedback which I will post on our website.

William


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

TRZ06 said:


> What is the price USD shipped?
> 
> Also how much does it cost to have these installed?


 
May be helpful. The shop that installed mine charged me 3 hours labor and had the install done in about two, this was their first MSS install but they are an experienced Audi/VW shop and realy know their stuff. We then spend time driving it a bit to let the spring settle a little before we adjusted the rear as well as taking it to and from the Alignment shop so three to four hours to complete the job is what I experenced.


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

TunaTT said:


> May be helpful. The shop that installed mine charged me 3 hours labor and had the install done in about two, this was their first MSS install but they are an experienced Audi/VW shop and realy know their stuff. We then spend time driving it a bit to let the spring settle a little before we adjusted the rear as well as taking it to and from the Alignment shop so three to four hours to complete the job is what I experenced.


3-4 hours seem to be the norm...


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Thanks for your orders. 

Placed orders this week are ready to go. 
Expect delivery early next week. 

Thanks for the business...:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

This September Specials offer is coming to end soon so take advantage of the *£145.83* savings* - that is over $200 savings -* to get an MSS Sports Kit on your Audi MK2 TT.

The key benefits are...;
- Improved handling 

- Improved ride comfort 

- Coilover features 

- Ride height adjustment with the factory dampers

- Retain your MagneRide dampers and the '_one-touch_' in dash suspension mode settings operation

See http://www.msskits.com/reviews for reviews.

William


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## Greg_STL (Feb 20, 2013)

MSS Sport Springs Installed

I was able to get in this week and get the springs installed along with the H&R rear sway bar and the 034 motorsports endlinks. It was raining crazy on Friday so I didn't really push on the way home. I did go to Cars&Coffee yesterday but that was mainly hwy cruising staying with my wife in her EOS.

First impressions. Definitely stiffer than before but I didn't feel a huge dramatic increase in ride quality - but given the major increase in stiffness I consider anything that does not degrade ride quality a success. The small bumps and feedback through the steering wheel ( road feel ) are still there and the car definitely feels stiffer on the long wavelength changes in elevation. The biggest improvement in ride quality is in the sharp thumps that you would get at expansion joints. Our roads here use lots of concrete instead of asphalt and with a few freeze/thaw cycles can get quite ugly. Smoothness definitely increases with speed. All of the above is with the sport mode not engaged. I think the improvement in sport mode is greater but I would say on my daily driven low speed roads still not something I'll engage that often. 

I tried to take pictures pre and post drop in my garage. As you can see in the pics below the drop is not large at all. I think the error in my holding the tape is greater than the drop I was trying to measure. I'll watch to see if I get more drop over the next 500 miles.



I used the front camber and toe alignments as recommended by MSS. I had to laugh because the mechanic as he was handing me my keys pulled them back and said "Now be careful, when you want to turn this thing, its going to turn ... right now." :laugh: Steering weight seemed a little higher but I after driving a different car for several days and then coming back to the TTS it could be imagined.



Some might see this as not a gushing review and you have to realize I'm just not the gushing type(aka engineer). What I see as the best of this is that it makes nothing worse and quite a few things better. I've done mods before that dramatically improve one thing (like cornering) but make something else much worse (NVH). Overall, I'm impressed and I hope to get some more time *driving* under my belt so I can give better impressions when the kit is pushed a little.


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks Greg for your initial thoughts and I look forward to your impressions once you have some more "seat time" in the S mode...


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

Greg_STL said:


> MSS Sport Springs Installed
> 
> I was able to get in this week and get the springs installed along with the H&R rear sway bar and the 034 motorsports endlinks. It was raining crazy on Friday so I didn't really push on the way home. I did go to Cars&Coffee yesterday but that was mainly hwy cruising staying with my wife in her EOS.
> 
> ...


Very similar experience to mine. :thumbup:


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Greg_STL said:


> MSS Sport Springs Installed
> 
> I was able to get in this week and get the springs installed along with the H&R rear sway bar and the 034 motorsports endlinks. It was raining crazy on Friday so I didn't really push on the way home. I did go to Cars&Coffee yesterday but that was mainly hwy cruising staying with my wife in her EOS.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback Greg.

We have a number of engineers who have also bought our kit to date and each review is very much in-line with expectation – rarely do engineers get ‘_animated’_ when examining a product and I expect that to continue as we get more buyers take up the product.

The weighted steering is expected as TOE out and increased Caster angle did make a difference also in our case. It is really noticed when cornering at moderate to high speed where the steering is not as nervous compared to when on stock suspension. 

The ride height is something I was keen to maintain close to stock mainly because performance was a priority consideration; ride comfort another then perhaps the looks follows. Generally and given that each car leaves the factory at a different weight to the Audi published weights, we are seeing the fronts lowered from 7mm up to our 15mm published. The biggest lowering is on the heavier front V6 models. The rears we note 10mm to the 20mm as published. From a handling perspective 5mm lowering is enough to change the character of the car or either axle load when rake is taken in to consideration. 

From here, you do have options in terms of fine tuning the platform to suit your driving taste whilst not compromising on ride comfort nor the improved composure in terms of handling. 

BTW, I smiled at your "_Smoothness definitely increases with speed_" comment which, perhaps, only an engineer will pick that up to comment. Marty will know exactly why I smiled.... 

That statement of yours above in itself is a point rarely picked up with MSS Spring Kits. The fact is that when a suspension system is made stiffer to help with handling, at higher speeds it does tend to be a bit of a handful as would be expected. With MSS spring Kits, it is not...thus rides softer when moving at pace...the established notion dictates that should not be the case...however it is with MSS Spring Kits...we like velocity and also engineers who pick up on this key point...:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

The point by your mechanic is a good point to note...the front-end is now sharper in to a turn so you can now guide the car in to an apex/corner with greater degree of confidence at higher speeds which we also note - the car will not washout on the fronts...aka understeer. That improved turn-in is followed with a rear axle that is now happy to play by tracking in nicely...the TT platform is now happier to '_wag its tail_', something one does not expect from a front-biased 4-WD Audi with a short wheel base. The car should now be a little more fun to drive at pace.

Thanks again Greg for the feedback, I will post this up.

William


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

Don't miss out on this special pricing. If your thinking about a suspension upgrade for your Magneride TT this is the time! Just read the numerous reviews, you won't be disappointed


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

*4 days left before this Specials ends...save yourself $200 on MSS Sports Kit*

Just a heads-up, *4 days left before this Specials ends...save yourself $200 on our signature MSS Sports Kit *product.

30th September is the deadline for orders, strictly am afraid to respect early takers...and no, Jeff will not be able to '_sweet_' talk me round this time...



Help us help you save $$$.


William


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Ordering mine tomorrow!



[email protected] said:


> Just a heads-up, *4 days left before this Specials ends...save yourself $200 on our signature MSS Sports Kit *product.
> 
> 30th September is the deadline for orders, strictly am afraid to respect early takers...and no, Jeff will not be able to '_sweet_' talk me round this time...
> 
> ...


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Brd.Prey said:


> Ordering mine tomorrow!


...:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Done




[email protected] said:


> ...:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Brd.Prey said:


> Done


 Picked up and thanks for the business. 

Orders shipping with FedEx and they are up to their usual slick standards so expect delivery next week.

William


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## sandjunkie (Sep 28, 2012)

Thinking about ordering but I'd like to know how this kit compares to the S-line sport suspension that I have in my 2013 TT S-line completion that is like the orange one that has been featured on fourtitude. The ride is a bit harsh for daily driving now and I'd like to take off the edge and maintain the lower sport ride height if possible. Thanks,


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

I see a bunch of reviews on the sports kit, but what about the street kit?

How big of a difference is there between the street and sports kit. 

I am very close to pulling the trigger on these after all the rave reviews. Mostly I want less rear squat under hard acceleration and less body roll in corners since I plan on going with sticker RE-11 tires. Then plan on doing an APR Stage 2.

One concern I have is the lowering. I take my car to the car wash and as it is , it barely clears the track. Also stock it barely clears the concrete blocks in parking lots. I don't want to risk messing up the front bumper with a single slip (which happens)


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> I see a bunch of reviews on the sports kit, but what about the street kit?
> 
> How big of a difference is there between the street and sports kit.
> 
> ...


 Hi TRZ06,
The Street kit is just on a customer car and the kit will release in the next day or so.

The kit is aimed at non-MagneRide cars and best for daily driven cars without MagneRide. I will not recommend MSS Streets for MagneRide cars simply because the kit is suited to the lower non-MagneRide dampers valve rate. 
The MagneRide with higher damper rate will simply not work as effectively leading to handling that is not as ‘sporting’ as you may like.

In terms of clearance you will simply not ant MSS Streets as it uses lower rated springs thus car will lower further compared to MSS Sports which uses stiffer springs all round.

On clearance, the rears will not be an issue as you can raise ride height.

On the fronts, assuming your car is stock weight of 1450kg and if you are 10mm away from catching concrete blocks in parking lots then you will be fine. If your car weighs significantly more- 1500kg+ then any upgrade will catch and not our springs.

Your best options will be to stay as you are or wait for our adjustable fronts to give you all round adjustability though changing the ride height by as little as 5mm will affect handling...based on our tests.

It is a tough call though what I am told by TT-RS/TT-S buyers to date is that the front does not lower the car significantly - given the weight of each car being different admittedly - hence we are working hard to release the adjustable fronts to give people the option to go lower as desired.

William


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

sandjunkie said:


> Thinking about ordering but I'd like to know how this kit compares to the S-line sport suspension that I have in my 2013 TT S-line completion that is like the orange one that has been featured on fourtitude. The ride is a bit harsh for daily driving now and I'd like to take off the edge and maintain the lower sport ride height if possible. Thanks,


 Ride height will be as below and the kit you wnat is MSS Streets. Releasing soon though will be strictly pre-order and delivery late Nov/Dec. 

I know exactly what you mean by the S-Line ride. Car looks great however when you do hit a bump there is simply insufficent rebound control to soften the ride hence the harsh ride. 


*MSS Streets stance on FWD non-MagneRide base MK2 TT.

*


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## sandjunkie (Sep 28, 2012)

Thanks for answering all my questions William. I will be waiting for the adjustable street set.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

sandjunkie said:


> Thanks for answering all my questions William. I will be waiting for the adjustable street set.


 You are welcome. 

We are working on getting pre-order changes made to our web site right now so hopefully we can get everything in a ready state for people to place pre-order when the release is announced.

Eibach factory already primed to get kits manufactured and hopefully we can get a great pre-order going...well, I have no doubt about that as we are supported well by the good folks here.


I also think people will be happy with the release price though we just have to wait till the formal release to know where we land with MSS Street kits price.


Ohh make no mistake, Jeff has worked hard to get a price he wants...this time round...!



William


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

*Australia TT-RS with MSS Sports Kit*

I will assume this has not been seen - it is on our Facebook page - however one of our customers bought MSS Sports and had kept his car specs low key though I managed to get him to share some pictures...well, just take a look and I will shut up for once...




























William


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> One concern I have is the lowering. I take my car to the car wash and as it is , it barely clears the track. Also stock it barely clears the concrete blocks in parking lots. I don't want to risk messing up the front bumper with a single slip (which happens)


TRZ06,

Just an fyi, my front drop was closer to 8-10mm. It really varies a bit even on different RS cars.


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## TunaTT (Oct 25, 2010)

TRZ06 said:


> I see a bunch of reviews on the sports kit, but what about the street kit?
> 
> How big of a difference is there between the street and sports kit.
> 
> ...





[email protected] said:


> TRZ06,
> 
> Just an fyi, my front drop was closer to 8-10mm. It really varies a bit even on different RS cars.


I had almost no front drop, 1.5 to 2mm. Which worked for me as I was not looking or hoping for much drop.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> TRZ06,
> 
> Just an fyi, my front drop was closer to 8-10mm. It really varies a bit even on different RS cars.


Awesome, I think I am going to go for it.

What is the current exchange rate in USD?

I am assuming that Paypal is the preferred payment method?

Is the special pricing still avail. and what about shipping costs?

I'm assuming that an alignment is required afterwards?

Also, when getting it re-aligned, what alignment changes do you recommend and what do they achieve and how will that affect tire wear?

Thanks


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> Awesome, I think I am going to go for it.
> 
> What is the current exchange rate in USD?
> 
> ...


 Shipped price on current exchange rate as per XE it is $1128 - see XE. I expect PayPal to have a rate a few dollars more.

The Sept Specials runs to 23:59 tomorrow - 30th Sept so you got some time.

The front lowering is a real challenge due to each car leaving the factory at a fairly wide range of weight - driven by which option had been selected. This plays havoc on stock or aftermarket springs in being able to predict ride heights - even a +/- 2mm tolerance can easily be breached.

If there is an issue then just drop us a line – [email protected] or [email protected] and we will resolve the issue.


Thinking about it also, I know you looked in to install by a local dealer. We have built up a collection of tuning garages that have installed MSS KITS now and AWE; 034; NurTec; Pure Motorsport; EuroTech are the few that comes to mind...if they are close by else just shout and we can see if we can direct you to a tuner relatively close.


William


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

On alignment safe is stock on rears and up to -1.4 Camber and 0 Toe on fronts. Tyre rotation every 3k for frequent use/daily driving or 5k for infrequent use keeps an even wear front to rear.

The above alignment helps car turn in easier even on stock suspension and adds noticeable weight to steering - feels a little taut and not loose.

Just keep an eye on tyre pressure all round and you are good to go.

I know that some of the tuners tend to offer different views based on what they observe at first hand and you can go with that also just observe tyre rotation routine and that helps mitigate any uneven wear.

Rotation should be done anyway as the front will usually wear more than rears as the car is setup to be FWD mostly.


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

Thanks,

I am working on paypal now.

Do you know what the stock camber settings are?

Also on paypal, I do not have the required verification to link my account for instant funds, does the e-check option cause any issues?


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Yes to PayPal.

see below for UK/EU stock camber for the MagneRide - 

Fronts is -0.41 Camber and 0.05 TOE
Rears is -1.20 Camber and 0.12 TOE


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> Thanks,
> 
> I am working on paypal now.
> 
> ...


 That is fine - we ship when PayPal advice us on e-cheque clearance as per norm.

William


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

Just placed my order. Told me the transaction was complete then redirected me to this message...



ERROR: Unable to verify $_SERVER["HTTP_HOST"].
Please contact Support for assistance.

If you are the site owner, please check the custom value in your Button Code. It MUST start with your domain name.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> Just placed my order. Told me the transaction was complete then redirected me to this message...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks - got a ticket opened on this issue already and that reminds me to chase up on this as it has been opened for a while now.

William


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Thanks - got a ticket opened on this issue already and that reminds me to chase up on this as it has been opened for a while now.
> 
> William


Awesome

Looking forward to seeing the positive affects of this kit.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> Awesome
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the positive affects of this kit.


 The kit has been tested extensively and to date has held up well.

I have a back-to-back request from user DayTrader who wants to see how we fare against same car on same day with Stock vs. MSS. I have organised something though we will extend the field to include KW v3 and PSS10..,might as well. All cars will be Stage 2 of some form.

When that takes place, regardless of the results, I will share footage and data here. The driver is a current pro racing in the British Tour Car Championship so that should hopefully be good for getting his feedbacl - which I have already had but am not supposed to disclose until we test again with data at hand.

Just got to line up “_all the moons_” so to speak.

My money is on my own kit offcourse...

William


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## derek8819 (Jan 29, 2013)

TunaTT said:


> I had almost no front drop, 1.5 to 2mm. Which worked for me as I was not looking or hoping for much drop.


Got the kit on my TTS yesterday, same as above. I had almost no drop on the front and the rears I actually had to dial down almost all the way to get back to stock height (was higher initially). Perfect. I am sure they will settle a bit, but I am happy. I took off my H&R rear sway and went back OEM, car feels just as if not more eager to turn in and still do not have it aligned. Far less brake dive and squat under hard acceleration. Maybe a bit stiffer in non sport and sport mode, but less abrupt than OEM. Like it!

THANKS MSS!


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

derek8819 said:


> Got the kit on my TTS yesterday, same as above. I had almost no drop on the front and the rears I actually had to dial down almost all the way to get back to stock height (was higher initially). Perfect. I am sure they will settle a bit, but I am happy. I took off my H&R rear sway and went back OEM, car feels just as if not more eager to turn in and still do not have it aligned. Far less brake dive and squat under hard acceleration. Maybe a bit stiffer in non sport and sport mode, but less abrupt than OEM. Like it!
> 
> THANKS MSS!


 You are welcome.

The ride height will offcourse settle as the springs set in to their natural loaded state – on the JKM TT-S Roadster we found the ride height progressively got down certainly over the 500 miles mixed driving. Alignment check after 500 miles is best. 

Lack of rear squat is a trait we note and that helps to get power to the ground, effectively you can now get to use these high powered cars properly. That is a key point for corner exit, you can get on power earlier - mid corner in fact is what we note.

You beat us on the RSB, we are going back to stock also - just got to find time to fit these, in between much development & testing work. Indeed, with a stiffer platform all round as MSS affords it really offers the opportunity to dial down some aspects of chassis mods already fitted on the car thus ARBs all round should be set to soft - which defects the whole object, IMHO, of having these in the first place as they are designed to stiffen the chassis. We prefer to dial in the suspension to achieve similar aim as RSB then use rake; crossweight; tyre pressure to fine tune accordingly – all of which the MSS kits affords with ride height adjustment now a capability.

Lack of diving under braking is a trait we also note especially on the lighter cars – not mine mind as that thing weighs 1.566kg! on purpose, it is our development car - however we do not promote that aspect mainly because it is one of a few other traits MSS Spring kits adds that we choose not to emphasis. We feel it is best to allow buyers to enjoy new findings. We will still just maintain our 5 key traits as benefits and any new findings by buyers is one we would let feedbacks dictate.

Personally, I find that the MK2 TT (8J) chassis with MSS fitted is more planted when the road surface is wet as is the case when the road surface is dry. 

Thanks for the initial feedback and keep us posted on how you get on with the kit.


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

*Rear Sway Bar*

I am a little confused as to why the aftermarket rear swaybars are coming off? Most people only change the rear. I would understand if the rear was now too strong for the front with the spring change. When the rear sway bar is too strong for the front the car will oversteer. Too weak understeer. So what is making you pull the aftermarket RSB? Too much oversteer? I wonder if your Aftermarket RSB needs to be complimented with a new Front swaybar. This should balance it out.

Please describe why and the effects that resulted from Before after RSB swap.

Was the aftermarket swaybar when only one wheel is articulating compensating for too weak of suspension spring? 

William what swaybar was on all the test vehicles? Interesting aas I was gonna ask you that anyway before I read these latest thread entries.

I have a Neuspeed RSB (set to the soft hole), and was seriously thinking about putting the front on with the springs as I am also doing the Tyrosports Dead Set Rigid Chassis mod and 034 Dogbone and motor mounts. Most of the front undercarriage will be unbolted so it seems it will no tbe too much additional work.


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## MaXius (May 20, 2009)

Brd.Prey said:


> I am a little confused as to why the aftermarket rear swaybars are coming off?


They're not needed anymore. Fitting MSS springs fixes the cause, whereas upgrading the RSB was only a band-aid.


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

MaXius said:


> They're not needed anymore. Fitting MSS springs fixes the cause, whereas upgrading the RSB was only a band-aid.


Rear only but a matching front and rear that are stiff should equal less roll. I can't imagine that the springs and the flimsy stock bars yield very low roll?


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Brd.Prey said:


> I am a little confused as to why the aftermarket rear swaybars are coming off? Most people only change the rear. I would understand if the rear was now too strong for the front with the spring change. When the rear sway bar is too strong for the front the car will oversteer. Too weak understeer. So what is making you pull the aftermarket RSB? Too much oversteer? I wonder if your Aftermarket RSB needs to be complimented with a new Front swaybar. This should balance it out.
> 
> Please describe why and the effects that resulted from Before after RSB swap.
> 
> ...


 Test car #1 (TT-RS Roadster) - mine has (coming off soon) H&R front & rear sway bars. Did not fix roll issues.

Test car #2 (David - TT-RS Coupe) went with 034 RSB on hard though he then dialled that down to softest.

Test car #3 (Cliff TT-RS Coupe) went with 034 RSB though dialled down to softest and reports being happy.

Test car #4 (Craig TT-RS Coupe) kept stock as he knows a thing or two about RSB effect and knew that will not fix the handling issues he had. He has MSS Sports also. He uses MSS Sports on track with slick tyres and is happy.

Test car #5 (Jeff TT-RS Coupe) has stock RSB though 034 in the garage which he may try to see if it is a _plus _or _minus_.

Test car #6 (Lake TT-S Coupe) and a track focused car which had Neuspeed RSB ahead of MSS Sports. He reduced his lap times across the board with MSS Sports. He has since upgrade to MSS Track _Pack_ and was on track weekend gone...am awaiting his update. His RSB is set to softest.

Test car #7 (JKM TT-S Roadster) is entirely stock and only MSS Sports. [email protected] has been working with me from day 1 and has said this car needs nothing else as it is good to go as is.

Generally, we found that RSB set to softest was best and the need for RSB ahead of MSS Spring Kit may have good grounds. Post MSS, fitting RSB is really down to individual tastes.

Personally, I found the H&R to simply did not fix my understeer and roll issues hence I developed MSS. I am putting the car back to stock simply to be able to give people a stock view. 

Knowing and understanding what I do today, I will only use ARBs/RSB to fix a specific issue or fine tune the car - at present it will not feauture as I do not have any handling issues I need to fix...just my poor driving on track... 

Again, keep in mind that we are all very different and so the addition or omission of a mod is likely because the person wants to fine tune to suit. 

As an example, Jim and Nick are very happy with the rear tyre PSI being lower (HOT) than the fronts on track and they seemingly can crank in lower lap times at will.


I just do not get on with lower rear tyre PSI and have to have it higher than fronts...we are all so different I guess...

William


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Thank you very much for all the empirical data. I set my swaybar to the soft setting when I installed it. I was pretty sure that with the stock front bar that it would be too much set to the stiffer setting. Most people don't do the front for 2 reasons I suspect. 1) car understeers and a stiffer rear will help correct that. 2) the labor to do the front is so much more. I figured since I was doing all the stiffing mods up front it would be a good time to throw on a slightly stiffer front bar and see where that got me.

thanks Ed


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Brd.Prey said:


> Thank you very much for all the empirical data. I set my swaybar to the soft setting when I installed it. I was pretty sure that with the stock front bar that it would be too much set to the stiffer setting. Most people don't do the front for 2 reasons I suspect. 1) car understeers and a stiffer rear will help correct that. 2) the labor to do the front is so much more. I figured since I was doing all the stiffing mods up front it would be a good time to throw on a slightly stiffer front bar and see where that got me.
> 
> thanks Ed


 By the OEM design, the front wheel rate is higher than the rears. With MSS, we move that ratio a little towards the rears to get a neutral setup with a manageable oversteer tendency – at the limit.

Stiffer RSB increases that oversteer. 
Equally, stiffer front sway bars reduces the oversteer and puts the car towards the OEM understeer.

Stiffer ARBs package as a whole will move the handling towards understeer unless you are clever with the Geo – _but why bother doing that_...would be my question.

If you want more oversteer with your MSS kit then go RSB, start soft and fine tune from there. Your car may be happier with RSB set to soft...in which case OEM makes a strong case of being left alone and par that with tyre pressures to achieve the required oversteer.

If you are fortunate enough to be at a point of tyre changeover due to old tyres being below legal limit then you can bring improved tyres to the equation to fine tune – PSS is a safe bet for dry or wet tarmac...there are others like RE-11 ADV08 etc though I have no experience of these thus cannot comment.

Overall, the basic principle behind MSS is that we look at a 'speaker system' which matches each speaker driver to a given frequency so that each speaker driver performs best within a frequency range. MSS is same on the rears...the springs are tuned to perform best at low; medium; higher bump rates.

So, you can go soft or very firm. To add ARBs or RSB would simply mean you move each of those optimum points higher and wider – the question then becomes...”is your driving skills up to a sharper / responsive car?”...

I have just moved to MSS Track _Pack_ to test alongside one of our testers. The tester in question has just completed a track day session and was an estimated 2 to 4 seconds a lap quicker than MSS Sports he had prior (_timing gear not allowed hence the large variation in estimates_) though the car is just not dialled in yet. He feels there is much more to come from Track _Pack_ – and I agree. RSB set to softest with stock front sway bar. He notes, as I did today, that you need to up your game with stiffer rear as Track _Pack_ is...the car is generally more responsive so, _“smooth is fast”_...as has been said many a time...

William


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## Brd.Prey (Oct 25, 2012)

Got the springs, very professional package and product. Thanks for the key fob and hat. I am already traveling down my road map for this mod. I will keep you posted, but yes I have new PSS tires and wheels that are about 4 lbs less per wheel so my unsprung weight is going down as well.

PS but not to worry I am fortunate to have a lift in my garage do all my own work. So install, testing and changing the setup is fairly easy for me.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

Brd.Prey said:


> Got the springs, very professional package and product. Thanks for the key fob and hat. I am already traveling down my road map for this mod. I will keep you posted, but yes I have new PSS tires and wheels that are about 4 lbs less per wheel so my unsprung weight is going down as well.
> 
> PS but not to worry I am fortunate to have a lift in my garage do all my own work. So install, testing and changing the setup is fairly easy for me.


You are welcome, thanks for the compliment and the purchase. 

William


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## TRZ06 (Jan 20, 2013)

I got the RE-11 tires installed and have about 100 miles on them so far. So much grippier with a sharper turn-in due to the stiffer sidewalls. The ride is a bit harsher, but I will take that for the greater grip and crispier turn-in. 

Can't wait to get the MSS sport springs on now to compliment the new tires.


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## [email protected] (Mar 25, 2013)

TRZ06 said:


> I got the RE-11 tires installed and have about 100 miles on them so far. So much grippier with a sharper turn-in due to the stiffer sidewalls. The ride is a bit harsher, but I will take that for the greater grip and crispier turn-in.
> 
> Can't wait to get the MSS sport springs on now to compliment the new tires.


Looks like quite a few people are jumping on the RE-11 tires, and MSS will help offset the harsher ride. Please give us your impressions post install.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

finally found a free couple hours to install the springs. past reviewers were absolutely correct in saying that the ride is improved in both settings. the car is much more gathered going over washboard type surfaces. the stock springs felt as though the car was just skating across the top of the bumps and not reacting quick enough to absorb properly. the new springs are definitely absorbing these types of bumps much better.

unfortunately i never had a chance to test the stock setup on track so i won't have a head-to-head lap time comparison to accurately judge the max handling benefits.

btw, for install a just pulled the front struts out of the hub carrier which was pretty easy and saved a bunch of disassembly.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> finally found a free couple hours to install the springs. past reviewers were absolutely correct in saying that the ride is improved in both settings. the car is much more gathered going over washboard type surfaces. the stock springs felt as though the car was just skating across the top of the bumps and not reacting quick enough to absorb properly. the new springs are definitely absorbing these types of bumps much better.
> 
> unfortunately i never had a chance to test the stock setup on track so i won't have a head-to-head lap time comparison to accurately judge the max handling benefits.
> 
> btw, for install a just pulled the front struts out of the hub carrier which was pretty easy and saved a bunch of disassembly.


Great to have your initial thoughts given your track car so would be great when you finally get this on track and see what can be done.

Paul and I are keen to hear back from your track tests - we suspected you may give the kit a hard time. Paul wants to know some specifics so you may care to share some details with him as he may have his own set of questions. 

Subscribed to your review in due course...:thumbup:


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## Marty (Jul 14, 2000)

smack_ttrs said:


> btw, for install a just pulled the front struts out of the hub carrier which was pretty easy and saved a bunch of disassembly.


Did you not have to disconnect the driveshafts or the hub from the control arm? It looked like these might have had to be done either way (at least according to the Audi manual). But if pulling the strut out of the hub means skipping those steps, it would be way easier!


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

Marty said:


> Did you not have to disconnect the driveshafts or the hub from the control arm? It looked like these might have had to be done either way (at least according to the Audi manual). But if pulling the strut out of the hub means skipping those steps, it would be way easier!


exactly. just had to disconnect the sensor on the lower a-arm and the swaybar mount that attaches to the strut housing. that's it. whole car done in under two hours with recon time before starting.

the other nice thing that's different from other cars i've done is that nothing is under pressure at full extention/rest. you don't have to get a spring compressor on the strut to take the hat off.

btw the other thing i noticed is that there's room up top to open up the hat mount holes in the strut tower to get a bit more camber out of the thing. thinking about redrilling and making a collar for the bolt holes to take up and play. could also get more caster out of it this way as well. all this is thinking about adding camber/caster without going to adjustable hats with solid pillowball mount. trying to keep out as much cabin noise/vibration as possible. i know how easy a car can go from a daily driver to a track car. trying not to do that this time.


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

smack_ttrs said:


> exactly. just had to disconnect the sensor on the lower a-arm and the swaybar mount that attaches to the stut housing. that's it. whole car done in under two hours with recon time before starting.


Interesting. Did you need to use a strut spreader tool to slide the strut out of the housing or is it loose enough to just slide the assembly off of the strut?

With my mk1 TT it was a tight fit to get the stock struts out of the spindle hub assembly that way but the H&R coilovers had such a shorter strut length that it just drops right out. I was hoping the magride struts were on the shorter side too


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

JohnLZ7W said:


> Interesting. Did you need to use a strut spreader tool to slide the strut out of the housing or is it loose enough to just slide the assembly off of the strut?
> 
> With my mk1 TT it was a tight fit to get the stock struts out of the spindle hub assembly that way but the H&R coilovers had such a shorter strut length that it just drops right out. I was hoping the magride struts were on the shorter side too


yeah i had to buy some triple squares since i didn't have any. one of the sets i bought came with a spreader so i used that. no way to do it without.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M1F32M/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

at first i tried to do it from the top like i had on other cars but not enough room to just pop the top nut off and let everything come apart when jacking up the car. not enough space to get out from under the fender. also the new springs aren't any shorter than stock unlike h&r's so you don't gain any room to work


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## JohnLZ7W (Nov 23, 2003)

smack_ttrs said:


> yeah i had to buy some triple squares since i didn't have any. one of the sets i bought came with a spreader so i used that. no way to do it without.
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000M1F32M/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> at first i tried to do it from the top like i had on other cars but not enough room to just pop the top nut off and let everything come apart when jacking up the car. not enough space to get out from under the fender. also the new springs aren't any shorter than stock unlike h&r's so you don't gain any room to work


I've got a spreader from metalnerd but my triple-square collection is lacking, time for more tools! 
Thanks for confirming the other approach won't work either. I was wondering if you could just pull everything off the top with the strut in place. It did seem like wishful thinking given the size of the springs.

Now I just need to get the rest of my parts lined up for the install. I'm doing the Tyrolsport subframe collars at the same time.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

JohnLZ7W said:


> I've got a spreader from metalnerd but my triple-square collection is lacking, time for more tools!
> Thanks for confirming the other approach won't work either. I was wondering if you could just pull everything off the top with the strut in place. It did seem like wishful thinking given the size of the springs.
> 
> Now I just need to get the rest of my parts lined up for the install. I'm doing the Tyrolsport subframe collars at the same time.


yeah i have a set of those as well but waiting on grabbing a set of dogbone mounts and do those all at once. the motor seems to rotate a ton(fore & aft) in this car.


btw you only need the 14 if you're just pulling the strut housing. but there was so many other sizes when i started looking around the car that i just bought a couple different sets.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> ...
> 
> btw the other thing i noticed is that there's room up top to open up the hat mount holes in the strut tower to get a bit more camber out of the thing. _*thinking about redrilling and making a collar for the bolt holes to take up and play.*_ could also get more caster out of it this way as well. all this is thinking about adding camber/caster without going to adjustable hats with solid pillowball mount. *trying to keep out as much cabin noise/vibration as possible*. i know how easy a car can go from a daily driver to a track car. trying not to do that this time.


slow down will yahhhhh...

I have been saying for ages that there is a great deal on this MK2 platform in stock trim that negates wholesome changes. Simply looking around and observing the chassis is all that is needed_._

Camber of -2 on the front is certainly possible with some simple changes to the stock car and no additional hardware is required. We can get -1.5 right now with ease...no drilling or cutting...


The trick, IMHO, is to keep things OEM and with that challenge it is best to ensure changes can be reversed for when the car needs to go back to stock. So, that really is the challenge and needs some careful thoughts.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> slow down will yahhhhh...
> 
> I have been saying for ages that there is a great deal on this MK2 platform in stock trim that negates wholesome changes. Simply looking around and observing the chassis is all that is needed_._
> 
> ...


just thinking out loud really. first real thing on my list is finding a proper rotor for the car. i know people have done multiple days on the stock rotors but i have a fundamental problem with a direction rotor that is turning the wrong direction on one side. especially dealing with the heat that slicks can induce under braking.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> just thinking out loud really. first real thing on my list is finding a proper rotor for the car. i know people have done multiple days on the stock rotors but i have a fundamental problem with a direction rotor that is turning the wrong direction on one side. especially dealing with the heat that slicks can induce under braking.


 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:RelyOnVML/> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> Well, the rear is very much a done deal with the RS6 C5 rotors on the rears that we have currently though we are going a different route at point of release.

For the fronts we have had great success with the RS6 C6 390mm that others claim are 16kg each...they are not...we measured these at 14.12kg. Last set completed over 20k miles using PFC01 pads and these do generate some heat and killed the rotors.

Current set looks good for over 20k again though am using PFC08 pads...still generates heat. Again, these rotors are just one sided directional and despite all the scare stories they work fine for us on track.

For our brake kits we will have these RS6 C6 390mm as one option and another for those who want something else. Started a conversation with PFC some time back for kits and then apply our cooling idea. So the fronts are definitely a next solution

TBH, with the right pads and enough cooling in place the OEM TT-RS rotors can be '_managed_' along nicely...and that is something I have proved with the RS6 C6 setup...though they are not for everyone as you need 19s to use them hence am now looking at a solution for those wearing 18”.

I want to look at the stock TTRS rotors again with some efficient cooling in place and correct pads that do not generate as much heat...I believe that is a solution waiting to be worked on. 

Ohh, I have been testing the rear with Ti shims and the rears are now more engaged under braking. The signs are dust on wheels which is now almost equal to fronts and that is a surprise as the PFC08 pads on the fronts always generated more dust than the XP10 pads on the rears. Braking is just as effective thus no dramas however we are now getting the rear tyres up to temp quicker than before...the PSI now seem to climb up quicker. 

So the visuals and bum dyno are telling us the Ti shims are working...I now need to do some temp measuring and log what differences I note over a period of time.

We have not put Ti shims on the fronts yet...that will come later. 
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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:RelyOnVML/> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> Well, the rear is very much a done deal with the RS6 C5 rotors on the rears that we have currently though we are going a different route at point of release.
> 
> For the fronts we have had great success with the RS6 C6 390mm that others claim are 16kg each...they are not...we measured these at 14.12kg. Last set completed over 20k miles using PFC01 pads and these do generate some heat and killed the rotors.
> 
> ...


not sure i get the ti shim benefit other than the "possible" reduction in pad to piston heat transfer. 
for the record i love the pf rotors. i have a set of fronts on my evo x and it absolutely stops better than my evo 9 with full alcon caliper/rotors all around. most of this is factory set bias i'm sure but the pf rotors with slicks has more than enough heat shedding capacity without ducting which is saying something.
i have asked pf, stop tech, and brembo about replacement rotors but the response i received is no one is planning on bothering to make these. i already have alcon and pf rings that i'm thinking about hitting up a friend with a shop to make up new hats to make them work.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> not sure i get the ti shim benefit other than the "possible" reduction in pad to piston heat transfer.
> for the record i love the pf rotors. i have a set of fronts on my evo x and it absolutely stops better than my evo 9 with full alcon caliper/rotors all around. most of this is factory set bias i'm sure but the pf rotors with slicks has more than enough heat shedding capacity without ducting which is saying something.
> i have asked pf, stop tech, and brembo about replacement rotors but the response i received is no one is planning on bothering to make these. i already have alcon and pf rings that i'm thinking about hitting up a friend with a shop to make up new hats to make them work.


 Well, on Ti shim we just want to see if the theory can be proven so I will certainly start logging temps from hereon as what I see gives me enough confidence to take the next steps.

Agreed on PF rotors...no personal experience however I have been canvassing opinions from friends who have 1st hand experience and the responses is enough to get us looking in that direction. 

And you are right that PF simply do not cater for this platform...yet. However, I think we may change that...been working on them for a while now so we shall see.


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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

[email protected] said:


> Well, on Ti shim we just want to see if the theory can be proven so I will certainly start logging temps from hereon as what I see gives me enough confidence to take the next steps.
> 
> Agreed on PF rotors...no personal experience however I have been canvassing opinions from friends who have 1st hand experience and the responses is enough to get us looking in that direction.
> 
> And you are right that PF simply do not cater for this platform...yet. However, I think we may change that...been working on them for a while now so we shall see.


the shims should in theory help with caliper, and more importantly fluid temps. although i'm still having a hard time understanding how it can do this once the ti material reaches temp saturation.

shims are on the "wrong" side of the equation to have any influence on pad/rotor temps. or i n the case that they can "shield" the pistons then they may even keep more heat in the pad/rotor combo.

i really hope you can apply some added pressure to pf on getting them to consider building a set of rotors for our cars. i know a two-piece rotor is a bit more beneficial on the evo since the stock rotors are all steel with much more heat transfering to the wheel bearings but i still feel the stock directional but single sided ttrs rotors were a huge oversight on audi's part.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> the shims should in theory help with caliper, and more importantly fluid temps. although i'm still having a hard time understanding how it can do this once the ti material reaches temp saturation.
> 
> shims are on the "wrong" side of the equation to have any influence on pad/rotor temps. or i n the case that they can "shield" the pistons then they may even keep more heat in the pad/rotor combo.
> 
> i really hope you can apply some added pressure to pf on getting them to consider building a set of rotors for our cars. i know a two-piece rotor is a bit more beneficial on the evo since the stock rotors are all steel with much more heat transfering to the wheel bearings but i still feel the stock directional but single sided ttrs rotors were a huge oversight on audi's part.


 <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> <o:RelyOnVML/> <o:AllowPNG/> </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> </xml><![endif]--> My theory on the Ti shims - if they perform as per established views - then they will retain heat in the pads/rotor thus keep these close to the optimum operating temp...effectively, less effort is required to get the rears temps up and keep these high. 

If my theory is correct then the rears come in to play more often and thus brake bias is moved rearward. So tyre temps; rotor temps; calliper temps all needs to be logged over a period of time before (_I have done that_) and after (_am doing that now_). 

The results simply needs to be compared to see if the rear pads; rotors are keeping temps higher, If they are then the rear pads will work more effectively thus there should be more brake dusts on the wheels.

If the rears being more effective, I expect the fronts to not be as stressed/generate as much heat and therefore braking front to rear should in theory improved - once EBD is factored to the equation though I have a suspicion that it is not that effective...which is a good thing anyway because we do want EBD moving braking frontwards if the rear are now effective as noted above.

The thing about theories is that they can be used to explain anything though getting the supporting evidence is often difficult. 

The last two track days we had when these Ti shims went in, I noted that the dust on the rears is more than usual and visibly closer to the fronts – usually the rears show a good 50% less dust. Now I'd say the dust is probably 70% that of the fronts. 

Now there could be two explanations for this as follows...;

1) We have changed the suspension from MSS Sports to MSS Track _Pack_ and with stiffer rear springs the rear brakes are doing more work.

2) My theory is working thus the Ti shims are getting the rear pads and rotors get up to speed quicker and retain the temps for longer.

Anyway, we have another track session soon and I will start the temp logging from there. Historically, the front to rear temps has been 100 degrees Celsius apart. My theory was to get the difference closer. We will have to let the facts tell us what is what I guess...

On PF, well they have at least acknowledged we want to place an order so we shall see. If they take the order then we are in!
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## smack_ttrs (Mar 24, 2013)

when judging heat and dust levels don't forget that as pad's thickness reduces from wear, the more heat is generated. meaning you may see more dust just because wear starts to exagerate as you get thinner. which is why the good rule of thumb is never run a track pad below the thickness of it's backing plate. 
also why it would be more accurate(and more costly) to start with new pads every test day. don't forget you can definietly run different pads front to rear. i usually run a more aggresive pad on the rear of the evo just to get a bit more early bite since the thing is so nose heavy and the rears are under biased.

nice to see youi doing so much testing. i wish i had more time but i'm stuck in kitchen remodel hell right now and that's where all my free time is going. hopefully i can throw a bit of attention to the rs next summer and help confirm some of your findings so you're not stuck doing it all yourself.


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## MSS Automotive (Mar 20, 2013)

smack_ttrs said:


> when judging heat and dust levels don't forget that as pad's thickness reduces from wear, the more heat is generated. meaning you may see more dust just because wear starts to exagerate as you get thinner. which is why the good rule of thumb is never run a track pad below the thickness of it's backing plate.
> also why it would be more accurate(and more costly) to start with new pads every test day. don't forget you can definietly run different pads front to rear. i usually run a more aggresive pad on the rear of the evo just to get a bit more early bite since the thing is so nose heavy and the rears are under biased.
> 
> nice to see youi doing so much testing. i wish i had more time but i'm stuck in kitchen remodel hell right now and that's where all my free time is going. hopefully i can throw a bit of attention to the rs next summer and help confirm some of your findings so you're not stuck doing it all yourself.


 Good point on pads - the front PCF08s are certainly at backing plate thickness...and am running these down to what we run the PFC01 down to...to the backing plate or roughly 2mm left...

The rear XP10s have plenty left...so today am raising the rears ever so slightly...by a few millimeters as I want to bring increased positive rake in to play to move brake bias rearwards.

Well, you are putting in your shift for the kitchen this year so next year should hopefully see you have free time. I put in my shifts last year round the house so am now enjoying free time this year though looks like I may need to get a few things done next year round the house as the kids have been up to their usual destructive bests...especially my 6-yr old boy...

Anyway, I have lined up all my excuses already including a doctors note that states if I spend too much time away from the track I may develop a sudden alien-like character complex ...lets see what wifey says about that note...


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